# New Imedion 2400mah LSD AA Batteries



## gtwace (Jun 14, 2010)

For those looking for higher capacity LSD AA than Eneloop. Imedion just launched their 2400mah LSD AA in Singapore last week.

I managed to get a few of them, and the first charge on my C-9000 shows 2154mah, will have to use them for a few cycles to see if they reach the stated 2400mah. Something to look out for.


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## ICUDoc (Jun 14, 2010)

Sounds good- I wonder if they will have the same excellent current-sourcing ability as the Eneloops.


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## fishinfool (Jun 14, 2010)

It would be hard for me to replace eneloops as they have been proven over and over to be the best of the best. I would still be very interested though to see how they perform and how they hold up over time.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jun 14, 2010)

~
Will they also be making TRIple AAA sizes with increased capacity .... I hope.

~


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## Egsise (Jun 14, 2010)

gtwace said:


> For those looking for higher capacity LSD AA than Eneloop. Imedion just launched their 2400mah LSD AA in Singapore last week.
> 
> I managed to get a few of them, and the first charge on my C-9000 shows 2154mah, will have to use them for a few cycles to see if they reach the stated 2400mah. Something to look out for.


Are they similar to GSYuasa Enitime and Ansmann max-e 2500mAh LSD cells?

2400 or 2500mAh LSD NiMH, riiiiight...... :ironic:


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## Battery Guy (Jun 14, 2010)

gtwace said:


> For those looking for higher capacity LSD AA than Eneloop. Imedion just launched their 2400mah LSD AA in Singapore last week.



PM me if you are willing to send me one for testing. I will post the results in my AA Ragone Plot thread. 

From what I have read, the Imedion cells are pretty high quality, although I have to admit that I have yet to get my hands on one.

Cheers,
Battery Guy


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## Battery Guy (Jun 14, 2010)

These are really new. Will probably be tough to get samples for testing for awhile. Here is a short write up:

http://www.reddotphoto.com.sg/forum...u-Are-2400-mAh-IMEDION-rechargeable-batteries

Looks like the real deal. I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Cheers,
Battery Guy


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## gtwace (Jun 15, 2010)

Battery Guy said:


> PM me if you are willing to send me one for testing.



PM sent, email me.


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## Egsise (Jun 15, 2010)

Would it be better to test the LSD claim????????


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## TONY M (Jun 15, 2010)

Interesting, lets see what they are like after a few cycles. I think something has to come along to knock the Eneloops off the top some time.


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## RepProdigious (Jun 15, 2010)

gtwace said:


> I managed to get a few of them, and the first charge on my C-9000 shows 2154mah, will have to use them for a few cycles to see if they reach the stated 2400mah. Something to look out for.



I hate to be the one who tells you this, but the new eneloops ive got (1500x rechargeable series) also read these kind of numbers on their first couple of charges (2100-2140 range) so on that part there's not yet very much improvement...... Please do post back here if these numbers improve after a couple of cycles!


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## fishinfool (Jun 15, 2010)

RepProdigious said:


> I hate to be the one who tells you this, but the new eneloops ive got (1500x rechargeable series) also read these kind of numbers on their first couple of charges (2100-2140 range) so on that part there's not yet very much improvement...... Please do post back here if these numbers improve after a couple of cycles!


 
Are these the new colored eneloops? :thinking:


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## Battery Guy (Jun 16, 2010)

Greetings Everyone

These can now be purchased at EastGear.com.

It is not cheap to get them to the US with shipping.

Cheers,
Battery Guy


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## MarioJP (Jun 16, 2010)

For some reason I am really skeptical about this for the simple fact that eneloops can't break the 2000mAh limit. Definitely be interesting to see how these cells will perform in the long run.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 16, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> For some reason I am really skeptical about this for the simple fact that eneloops can't break the 2000mAh limit. Definitely be interesting to see how these cells will perform in the long run.



I would be leary of these too, I remember when non LSD cells "broke" the 2500mah barrier and became HSD cells along with it.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 17, 2010)

We just got a whole box of these delivered to our door step this morning. It feels kind of like Christmas morning. 

I've got a couple MH-C9000's running their "break-in" cycle on some of the new Imedions right now. FWIW, the old-style 2100mAh Imedions we tested seemed to average closer to 2200mAh, so I've got high hopes for these new ones. I also have it on good authority that PowerEx will be working their new Imedion magic into the rest of their battery sizes. Not just AAA, but apparently C, D & 9V Imedions are in the works too.

Anyway, we'll update the info on our Imedion 2400mAh page as soon as we've got some numbers from the capacity testing.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 17, 2010)

I would hope you just post your info here in the thread instead of referring us to a sales page with the info in it :shakehead


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## Foxx510 (Jun 17, 2010)

The Australian Powerex dealer informs me that these will be available for sale here very soon.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 17, 2010)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I would hope you just post your info here in the thread instead of referring us to a sales page with the info in it :shakehead



LOL. Will do.


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## ICUDoc (Jun 18, 2010)

Foxx510 said:


> The Australian Powerex dealer informs me that these will be available for sale here very soon.



I have bought stuff from that guy before- look forward to giving them a go...


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## Foxx510 (Jun 18, 2010)

ICUDoc said:


> I have bought stuff from that guy before- look forward to giving them a go...



Jeff runs a very reputable business from my experience and what I've heard from others. I'll be keen to see what the testing reveals.


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## ky70 (Jun 20, 2010)

RepProdigious said:


> I hate to be the one who tells you this, but the new eneloops ive got (1500x rechargeable series) also read these kind of numbers on their first couple of charges (2100-2140 range) so on that part there's not yet very much improvement...... Please do post back here if these numbers improve after a couple of cycles!


 


MarioJP said:


> For some reason I am really skeptical about this for the simple fact that eneloops can't break the 2000mAh limit. Definitely be interesting to see how these cells will perform in the long run.


 
Can anyone reconcile these differing statements?


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## RedForest UK (Jun 20, 2010)

I think the second one was referring to the commonly known results of the first run of eneloops. Also I think he meant cant break the 2000mah barrier in a rough sense, many peoples eneloops have been doing 2050-2100mah already. It's just that 2400mah in a lsd cell is a big jump and has been advertised before by a few companies without any substance to the claims..

Lets just wait and see the results.


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## MarioJP (Jun 20, 2010)

If this is true, This might give the eneloops competition.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 20, 2010)

Initial test results on the 2400 Imedions seem kind of mixed. The set I ran the break-in cycle on seem to be stuck at around 2200mAh. Another set that I started right off with "refresh/analyze" cycles is averaging around 2350mAh after several cycles.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 22, 2010)

Here's the first 4 cycles from the good set (which I did not run the break-in cycle on):

cycles-> #1 #2 #3 #4
bat #1 2228 2329 2332 2337
bat #2 2269 2369 2370 2374
bat #3 2244 2341 2345 2350
bat #4 2286 2381 2383 2388


Capacity seems to be pretty stable from cycle #2 onward, but still appears to be increasing slightly with each cycle. Still trying to figure out if I somehow overcharged & damaged the other set with the break-in cycle. I've got a 3rd set testing now as well just to make sure the above numbers aren't a fluke.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 22, 2010)

PhotonLight said:


> Here's the first 4 cycles from the good set (which I did not run the break-in cycle on):
> 
> cycles-> #1 #2 #3 #4
> bat #1 2228 2329 2332 2337
> ...


capacity looks promising, it will take months to determine if there are self discharge differences between other LSD cells.


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## N162E (Jun 25, 2010)

Anybody get any of these yet?


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## fishinfool (Jun 25, 2010)

PhotonLight said:


> Here's the first 4 cycles from the good set (which I did not run the break-in cycle on):
> 
> cycles-> #1 #2 #3 #4
> bat #1 2228 2329 2332 2337
> ...


 
Excellent numbers for a non-breakin. I'd like to see the numbers produced after a break-in when you get a chance. 

.


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## Egsise (Jun 25, 2010)

fishinfool said:


> Excellent numbers for a non-breakin. I'd like to see the numbers produced after a break-in when you get a chance.
> .





PhotonLight said:


> Initial test results on the 2400 Imedions seem kind of mixed. The set I ran the break-in cycle on seem to be stuck at around 2200mAh. Another set that I started right off with "refresh/analyze" cycles is averaging around 2350mAh after several cycles.


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## RGB_LED (Jun 25, 2010)

These looks sweet! gtwace, thanks for the head's up on these puppies!



PhotonLight said:


> I've got a couple MH-C9000's running their "break-in" cycle on some of the new Imedions right now. FWIW, the old-style 2100mAh Imedions we tested seemed to average closer to 2200mAh, so I've got high hopes for these new ones.


Photon, I have to agree with you there. For those wondering about the Imedions, I purchased 8 x AA 2100mAh Imedion's early last year when I picked up my Maha charger and they are fantastic. I rotate my batteries and run break-in cycles every now and again and they are still showing as 2100+mAh to just over 2200mAh capacity after 1+ yr. :thumbsup: Also, since I rotate my batteries 2 x 4 AA at a time, 2 x 4 AA's tend to sit on the shelf for about 1 month at a time - not a definitive test for LSD but so far, so good.

Fyi, I also have 8 x AA Duracell white tops (rebranded eneloops) which I purchased in the spring... haven't put that many cycles through those just yet but they, too are showing 2100mAh capacity. It will be interesting to see when the capacity drops on both of the batteries.

I have to say that I'm impressed with the Imedions so far. I may have to pick up some of the 2400mAh Imedions if I can get my hands on them for fairly cheap. I'd also like to hear more feedback on the 2400mAh as well.



PhotonLight said:


> I also have it on good authority that PowerEx will be working their new Imedion magic into the rest of their battery sizes. Not just AAA, but apparently C, D & 9V Imedions are in the works too. Anyway, we'll update the info on our Imedion 2400mAh page as soon as we've got some numbers from the capacity testing.


I would definitely be interested in the C size Imedions...


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## PhotonLight (Jun 29, 2010)

Just a brief update on my testing -- It appears the huge difference in tested capacities between the two sets of batteries may have been due to one of the chargers not measuring accurately rather than anything to do with the batteries themselves. To speed up the testing I've been using two MH-C9000 chargers, but it appears the second charger has been consistently stopping about 100mah short of a full charge. Out of curiosity I tried swapping the batteries between chargers and immediately the first set of batteries that seemed to only be testing to 2200mAh mysteriously gained a bunch of capacity and the other set that had been testing very well on the first charger suddenly lost a solid 100mah of capacity when tested by charger #2.


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## N162E (Jun 29, 2010)

PhotonLight said:


> Just a brief update on my testing -- It appears the huge difference in tested capacities between the two sets of batteries may have been due to one of the chargers not measuring accurately rather than anything to do with the batteries themselves. To speed up the testing I've been using two MH-C9000 chargers, but it appears the second charger has been consistently stopping about 100mah short of a full charge. Out of curiosity I tried swapping the batteries between chargers and immediately the first set of batteries that seemed to only be testing to 2200mAh mysteriously gained a bunch of capacity and the other set that had been testing very well on the first charger suddenly lost a solid 100mah of capacity when tested by charger #2.


Ditto I am having exactly the same experience with 2 C9000 chargers. One of my chargers is a very early (Like first shipped) and the other is new as of three days ago. The newer one is reading about 100mah lower 2180-2260 the older one is reading 2240-2330. As I have 16 cells I am charging on 2 Lacrosse BC-900s. I am only 3 cycles in so far and I have been going hot off the charger right to discharge. I currently have 8 cells on discharge which have been off charge for 24 hours and tomorrow I will run the second set of 8 48 hours off charge. So far I am not overly impressed. More in a day or two.

After an initial charge of 200ma I am now charging/discharging at 500 ma.


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## ICUDoc (Jul 6, 2010)

Downunder update: Protog (used to be Servaas) has these on the website now for 17-21 AUD per 4pack. And cheap postage. I am interested but look forward to some current sourcing data, as well as longterm LSD testing. Anyone seen this data yet? If I weren't so lazy I'd start with 4 and test them. I wish I wasn't getting so old....


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## 357mag1 (Jul 6, 2010)

I see Thomas Distributing is carrying these batteries for the best price I've seen yet.


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## fkoehler (Jul 6, 2010)

Hi All,

FYI, my wife just got a killer deal apparently. Snoop.com box of 6 x 2 Duracell Active Charge for like $18 (sale over now). Was ready to tell her to ship them back as I hadn't heard of them, and assumed they were standard NiMH and I've found my Eneloops to be the shiznit.

Not 2400ma like the Imedion, but you may want to keep an eye out for other deals like this, or on fatwallet or slickdeals. I would assume this is competition/Capitalism in action.


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## adam83 (Jul 6, 2010)

Hello everyone! :wave:

8 of these little gems just showed up in the mailbox from Thomas Distributing! :huh: Needed sometihng to power the TK45 thats also on the way 

Out of the package OCV is...1.315 
1.311 
1.316 
1.313 
1.315 
1.311 
1.309 
1.310 ​The first 4 are undergoing a 500mAh discharge in the C-9000. 
Initial capacity and break-in results to follow.


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## PhotonLight (Jul 8, 2010)

ICUDoc said:


> I am interested but look forward to some current sourcing data, as well as longterm LSD testing. Anyone seen this data yet?



The 2400mAh Imedions were just released last month so not likely to see any long-term LSD tests for some time yet.


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## snakebite (Jul 9, 2010)

anyone find a datecode?it probably takes several months from the day of mfr.to "getting in the pipeline".
where were these made?
some good pics might help pin down the oem.


PhotonLight said:


> The 2400mAh Imedions were just released last month so not likely to see any long-term LSD tests for some time yet.


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## adam83 (Jul 9, 2010)

Capacity of my 8 new Imedions after a C-9000 *refresh&analyze*
2232mAh
2237mAh
2228mAh
2194mAh
2214mAh
2227mAh
2216mAh
2187mAh
I have not done a break-in cycle yet, hope to accomplish that in a few days.

I can not find a date code anywhere on these cells. They are made in Taiwan. Here is a shot and some comparisons to a Duraloop and a ROV Platinum

























More testing to come!


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## adam83 (Jul 14, 2010)

C-9000 Break-In results for first 4 Imedions
2282 - 50mAh improvement
2278 - 41mAh improvement
2278 - 50mAh improvement
2259 - 65mAh improvement

4 more awaiting their turn on the Maha...


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## fishinfool (Jul 14, 2010)

Nice numbers Adam. I wonder if the next 4 will show an improvement. Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:


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## adam83 (Jul 17, 2010)

adam83 said:


> C-9000 Break-In results for first 4 Imedions
> 2282 - 50mAh improvement
> 2278 - 41mAh improvement
> 2278 - 50mAh improvement
> ...



Ding! Imedions are done! Break-In results for the last 4...
2267 - 53mAh improvement
2285 - 58mAh improvement
2277 - 61mAh improvement
2267 - 80mAh improvement

Im happy to see all cells exceed the minimum labeled capacity of 2250mAh, and their capacities seems pretty darn consistent. Only a 26mAh difference between the highest and lowest cell. :thumbsup:

After reading Sanyo's website, I learned something. (Also resulted in me ordering 8 eneloops too ) I knew that nominal capacity was determined using the IEC standard, but it goes on to say that the capacity the manufacturers print on the label is determined by a 1/20 C discharge (after a 1C charge and 3 hour rest). 

Now I cant exactly replicate the procedure on the MaHa with the Imedions (I'll have to charge at 2000mA instead of 2400mA and discharge at 100mA instead of 120mA) but I am curious to see the results of this slooow discharge. I am hoping that the Imedions will exceed 2400mAh of course and see Peukert's law in action!


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## fishinfool (Jul 17, 2010)

Those are great numbers Adam. I just ordered 2-8pks of Eneloop Tones from vestureofblood so as soon as I get them I will post some break-in numbers. :wave:


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 17, 2010)

adam83 said:


> They are made in Taiwan. Here is a shot and some comparisons to a Duraloop and a ROV Platinum
> 
> 
> 
> ...



These look like the same (physical) design as the rayovac hybrids (platinum), makes you wonder if they are just higher quality version of the chinese LSD cells (same chemistry, etc) If that is so, testing should have them acting closer to the rayovacs than the eneloops.


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## adam83 (Jul 20, 2010)

So after reading Sanyo's site, I discharged an Imedion and a Duraloop at 100mA (as close to 1/20 C as I could get) to see how it would affect measured capacity. The Duraloop measured 1980mAh while the Imedion measured 2369mAh.:huh: Lookin good!

However I did notice that the Imedion's voltage under load was usually about .02v lower, but these cells are still fresh. Perhaps I should get a few more cycles under their belt and then some high current tests are in order :naughty:


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## Nil Einne (Aug 28, 2010)

Anyone has problems with the positive terminal/button top not making contact? I have some old Imedion (2100mAh) and they do have a problem with some devices. In particular with my PowerEx/Maha MH-C401FS you have to pull the battery out slightly for it to make contact in the far left (or is it right?) terminal. I think I read someone with a similar complaint


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## Navin_R_Johnson (Aug 30, 2010)

Anyone tested these for performance in the cold?

I thought my 2100mah ones were awesome until I took them out in 35F weather.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 30, 2010)

How about some testing at 8-9 AMP draw vs. Eneloop?

I am running 4xEneloop with SST-90 & it pulls 8.3Amp,
can these cells perform better at that Amp?

thanks


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## Battery Guy (Aug 30, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> How about some testing at 8-9 AMP draw vs. Eneloop?
> 
> I am running 4xEneloop with SST-90 & it pulls 8.3Amp,
> can these cells perform better at that Amp?
> ...



Well, I haven't got up to 8 amps yet, but here is a comparison of the Eneloop and Imedion 2400 at 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 amps:






I guess you can extrapolate up to 8 amps. You might get a bit more runtime with the Imedion 2400 at 8.3 amps.

Quite frankly, when I did this test I was very surprised at how well the Imedion 2400s performed. I expected much more voltage sag, but overall the voltage response is quite similar to the Eneloops, but you get an extra 20% more capacity.

Of course, it remains to be seen if the Imedion 2400 cells have equivalent reliability and longevity as the Eneloops.

I will post the 6-10A curves when I finish the tests.

Cheers,
BG


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## Battery Guy (Aug 30, 2010)

Navin_R_Johnson said:


> Anyone tested these for performance in the cold?
> 
> I thought my 2100mah ones were awesome until I took them out in 35F weather.



The performance of NiMH cells decreases with decreasing temperature because the conductivity of the electrolyte decreases. Essentially, the internal resistance of the cell increases as temperature decreases. Since all NiMH cells use essentially the same electrolyte, you should expect a similar decrease in the performance of the Imedion 2400 at low temperature that you see in the 2100 mAh version.

That being said, if you need better performance at low temperature, then try a high rate NiMH cell like the Elite 1700. The performance of that cell will still decrease as the temperature decreases, but since it starts out with a very low internal resistance at room temperature, it may significantly outperform the Imedion or Eneloop cells at very low temperatures. 

Cheers,
BG


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## tandem (Aug 31, 2010)

Nil Einne said:


> Anyone has problems with the positive terminal/button top not making contact?



I've not seen this but my Imedion 2400 AA cells are slightly larger in diameter than Eneloops/Duraloops or common off the shelf AA alkalines and can be somewhat snug in some devices.


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## Navin_R_Johnson (Aug 31, 2010)

Battery Guy said:


> The performance of NiMH cells decreases with decreasing temperature because the conductivity of the electrolyte decreases. Essentially, the internal resistance of the cell increases as temperature decreases. Since all NiMH cells use essentially the same electrolyte, you should expect a similar decrease in the performance of the Imedion 2400 at low temperature that you see in the 2100 mAh version.
> 
> That being said, if you need better performance at low temperature, then try a high rate NiMH cell like the Elite 1700. The performance of that cell will still decrease as the temperature decreases, but since it starts out with a very low internal resistance at room temperature, it may significantly outperform the Imedion or Eneloop cells at very low temperatures.
> 
> ...



I understand what you are saying. But, in my experience, the Imedions had a much higher increase in internal resistance with a drop in temperature than my other NIMH batteries. My Eneloops, and Radio Shack precharged performed just fine in the same temperature range ~35F. I know there is a limit when all of them will perform poorly. I was just curious if Powerex/Maha/Imedion (whatever the company is actually called) did something to improve performance in this regard.


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## N162E (Aug 31, 2010)

Nil Einne said:


> Anyone has problems with the positive terminal/button top not making contact? I have some old Imedion (2100mAh) and they do have a problem with some devices. In particular with my PowerEx/Maha MH-C401FS you have to pull the battery out slightly for it to make contact in the far left (or is it right?) terminal. I think I read someone with a similar complaint


Yes, I had that happen with one oif my MH-C9000s. The fix was to take it (The charger) apart and add some solder blobs to the chargers' positive contacts.


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## duartix (Sep 20, 2010)

I've just received a batch of 16 o these new 2400mAh Imedions. Initial capacity goes very close to 1850mAh in the two sets I've discharged in order to run a break-in cycle.
Is this initial capacity normal? I won't have capacity numbers for a few days until the break-in finishes...


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## bbb74 (Sep 20, 2010)

duartix said:


> I've just received a batch of 16 o these new 2400mAh Imedions. Initial capacity goes very close to 1850mAh in the two sets I've discharged in order to run a break-in cycle.
> Is this initial capacity normal? I won't have capacity numbers for a few days until the break-in finishes...



Yep sounds normal. Mine varied from 1650-1900 on initial discharge. Final capacities will be around the 2200-2300 mark.


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## duartix (Sep 22, 2010)

bbb74 said:


> Yep sounds normal. Mine varied from 1650-1900 on initial discharge. Final capacities will be around the 2200-2300 mark.


Yup! After a break-in they are around 2300... 
All normal then.


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## RepProdigious (Sep 22, 2010)

Why is everybody so positive about the capacity on these cells? I have yet to see _one _that actually reaches the claimed capacity, let alone go a bit over so it will keep withing spec after a bit of wear..... I just hate products that don't live up to the two or three specs they have.

However, am i right that these cells have roughly the same price-tag as the eneloops? In that case the 5~10% increase in capacity is just a nice little bonus (_if_ they hold up after use like my eneloops that is)


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## bbb74 (Sep 22, 2010)

RepProdigious said:


> Why is everybody so positive about the capacity on these cells? I have yet to see _one _that actually reaches the claimed capacity, let alone go a bit over so it will keep withing spec after a bit of wear..... I just hate products that don't live up to the two or three specs they have.
> 
> However, am i right that these cells have roughly the same price-tag as the eneloops? In that case the 5~10% increase in capacity is just a nice little bonus (_if_ they hold up after use like my eneloops that is)



Batteries that live up to their label are pretty rare  The Imedion 2400's are usually around the 2300 mark which is lower than 2400 yes. But its still a pretty significant increase over eneloops (more like 15%).

I am also curious to see how they go with wear so I am tracking mine. After some use (20 cycles) (including repeated non-gentle use in a torch mounted on bike handlebars for commuting) mine are holding up fine so far. Need to go longer to really see though. But I'm thinking it will take quite some time to drop below eneloops, if they actually do that at all.

I have a packet of x1500 eneloops I'm comparing to the Imedions, will post some results in a few weeks. The eneloops do hold a very marginally higher voltage under load that's about all I can say so far, apart from them having much lower capacity. People who have tested Imedion self discharge rates have them close to or better than eneloops. I have seen multiple reports that the Eneloops are better under very high loads, which really only pertains to camera flashes that I can think of.


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## jasonck08 (Sep 25, 2010)

Nice tests Battery Guy.

Were your eneloop tests done with the white wrapper 1000 cycle cells, or were they done with the newer 1500 cycle colored wrapper cells?


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## Battery Guy (Sep 25, 2010)

jasonck08 said:


> Nice tests Battery Guy.
> 
> Were your eneloop tests done with the white wrapper 1000 cycle cells, or were they done with the newer 1500 cycle colored wrapper cells?



The results in this thread were from the white wrapper 1000 cycle cells. I have recently performed some testing that suggests that the newer 1500 cycle Eneloops have slightly more voltage sag compared to the older 1000 cycle Eneloops. I will post these results in a separate thread.

Cheers,
BG


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## Napalm (May 13, 2011)

tandem said:


> I've not seen this but my Imedion 2400 AA cells are slightly larger in diameter than Eneloops/Duraloops or common off the shelf AA alkalines and can be somewhat snug in some devices.


 
Mine too. On average (4 batteries each brand), the diameter of the Imedion 2400 is 14.3mm while eneloop is 14.17mm. Doesn't seem much but I have a mouse from which it is very difficult to extract the imedions while the eneloops are ok.

I won't measure the length with metal calipers lol.

nap


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## jayflash (May 14, 2011)

PhotonLight said:


> Just a brief update on my testing -- It appears the huge difference in tested capacities between the two sets of batteries may have been due to one of the chargers not measuring accurately rather than anything to do with the batteries themselves. To speed up the testing I've been using two MH-C9000 chargers, but it appears the second charger has been consistently stopping about 100mah short of a full charge.



Might it be within normal limits for one charger to have a <5% difference with another? !00mA is only a small percentage of full capacity and I wonder if that's within normal deviation. Perhaps one time the cells or room was warmer or wasn't discharged to the same degree. 50mA difference in discharge & charge could cause the change in capacity readings.

Are we sacrificing LSD properties, durability, life, voltage maintenance, etc. by pushing the capacity ever higher?


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## Battery Guy (May 15, 2011)

jayflash said:


> Are we sacrificing LSD properties, durability, life, voltage maintenance, etc. by pushing the capacity ever higher?



Yes, we are.

The only way to increase the capacity is to make thicker electrodes and use a thinner separator. The thicker electrodes will increase internal resistance and the thinner separator will increase self discharge rate. Without a change in cell chemistry or the use of new materials, there is really no way to get around this fundamental problem. 

That being said, some companies seem to be able to play the game better than others. For example, Sanyo was able to push the capacity up 500 mAh in their XX cells with only a small increase in internal resistance. That being said, the XX cells are rated at 500 cycles, compared to 1500 cycles for new Eneloops, and the XX cells have higher self discharge rates. 

Cheers,
BG


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## UK_newbie (Jun 16, 2011)

Nil Einne said:


> Anyone has problems with the positive terminal/button top not making contact? I have some old Imedion (2100mAh) and they do have a problem with some devices. In particular with my PowerEx/Maha MH-C401FS you have to pull the battery out slightly for it to make contact in the far left (or is it right?) terminal. I think I read someone with a similar complaint


 Hi:

Having just come across this forum today, and having read your post, I've registered and would like to reply to it, even if it IS a year-ish after the fact.
It caught my attention because I have noticed the same thing and had rather wondered about it.
I too have a MAHA MH-C401FS (hoping to buy a Powerex C-9000 when possible), and some of the batteries I use with it are Powerex 2700 mAH NiMH.
I too have found at times that their positive terminals don't quite seem to make correct contact and need to be jiggled around or raised a bit to charge. It's not a biggie, really, but sometimes it is a bit of a nuisance.

Cheers!


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## CyberCT (Jun 17, 2011)

I just bought an 8 pack of these batteries off Newegg from their sale. I hope to test them in my TK41 tonight. Otherwise I have all eneloop AAs.


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## saypat (Jul 12, 2011)

adam83 said:


> C-9000 Break-In results for first 4 Imedions
> 2282 - 50mAh improvement
> 2278 - 41mAh improvement
> 2278 - 50mAh improvement
> ...



Thank you to all for all your info. I need to learn, and I am. Great forum.

patrick


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## menoceros (Jul 13, 2011)

Since this thread is still going strong, I'll post some results of mine. 

I bought 16 AA 2400 Imedions from Thomas Dist. I've run all through the "break-in" cycle on my 9000. Every one of my cells has shown just under 2400 when finished with a low of 2324 and a high of 2384.
These were the initial numbers and if they show any dramatic change as the cells are used I will post back.


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## bbb74 (Jul 13, 2011)

menoceros said:


> Since this thread is still going strong, I'll post some results of mine.
> 
> I bought 16 AA 2400 Imedions from Thomas Dist. I've run all through the "break-in" cycle on my 9000. Every one of my cells has shown just under 2400 when finished with a low of 2324 and a high of 2384.
> These were the initial numbers and if they show any dramatic change as the cells are used I will post back.



How old is your C9000, what is the version number on the back? The older ones show higher capacities than the newer ones.


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## Stephen Wallace (Jul 14, 2011)

menoceros said:


> Since this thread is still going strong, I'll post some results of mine.
> 
> I bought 16 AA 2400 Imedions from Thomas Dist. I've run all through the "break-in" cycle on my 9000. Every one of my cells has shown just under 2400 when finished with a low of 2324 and a high of 2384.
> These were the initial numbers and if they show any dramatic change as the cells are used I will post back.



Is this the capacity that is actually shown at the end of the break-in cycle, or is this the capacity of a charge and discharge carried out after a break-in cycle has been completed? 

Only reason I ask is that I invariably find that the capacity achieved during a break-in cycle is considerably higher than a subsequent charge and discharge carried out and normal circumstances. I also find cycling the cells 'x' number of times will give a higher capacity then a subsequent single charge/discharge cycle. 

Basically, I get higher capacities with my C9000 under 'testing' conditions than under circumstances that more accurately represent normal usage - charging the battery once, and then discharging at a rate equivalent to one that may occur in a light.


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## menoceros (Jul 18, 2011)

trI'll reply to both of the above questions. 

This is a new 9000 bought within the past month. I don't know which number you're referring to on the back.

These are the numbers the 9000 showed at the end on the "break in" I did on the 16 AAs right after I bought them. I'm still running them in my ligfhts and have not recharged any of them yet. I also bought 16 AAAs but have not really paid as much attention to the results from them as far as the capacity shown at the end of the break in cycle.


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## bbb74 (Jul 18, 2011)

menoceros said:


> This is a new 9000 bought within the past month. I don't know which number you're referring to on the back.



The number on the back will be something like OJOCA or something like that. Turn it over and have a look around.


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## menoceros (Jul 20, 2011)

The number on the back is 0K0DA


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## CyberCT (Jul 22, 2011)

menoceros said:


> The number on the back is 0K0DA



That is the version on the back of my MH-C9000 I just got in the mail a week ago.

I'm still running all my Eneloops on break-in mode (32 total eneloops) and it takes about 2 days to do 4, so I'm more than half way through now. So far, most of my eneloops are just below 2000mah. I have three that are just above 2000mah, and the rest are like 1955mah to 1990mah. I have the older 1000 cycles Eneloops.

Once I'm done with the eneloops, I'm going to break in the Imedions and see what I get. Hopefully close to 2400mah.


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## menoceros (Jul 22, 2011)

You know: a thought has occured to me. The c9000 has four seperate chargers, one for each slot. It must also have four circuits for measuring the voltages etc. it shows. Now this is a great charger but it's not a lab quality multimeter. If it had say 3-4% error (high or low) that could explain some of the differences we're seeing in our readings. That's not really that great an error for something like this. 4% would be 96 mah at the end of the break in cycle so if I show 2340mah it could be 2256mah.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 22, 2011)

menoceros said:


> You know: a thought has occured to me. The c9000 has four seperate chargers, one for each slot. It must also have four circuits for measuring the voltages etc. it shows. Now this is a great charger but it's not a lab quality multimeter. If it had say 3-4% error (high or low) that could explain some of the differences we're seeing in our readings. That's not really that great an error for something like this. 4% would be 96 mah at the end of the break in cycle so if I show 2340mah it could be 2256mah.


 
If you kept track of which cells came from which channels you could possibly ascertain if a channel seems to be coming out with lower/higher numbers than another channel and try a few batteries from a supposedly low channel in a high channel and see if the numbers change accordingly.


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## CyberCT (Jul 24, 2011)

If that's the case then the MH-C9000 is almost worthless to me. The only reason I bought it was to get a very accurate reading of each AA cell I have (with pretty much NO margin of error accross the board) so I can tell the top cells from the average and crappy ones. I might just return mine then. The only real purpose I see of this charger is to find cells that are bad like 1600 mah for an eneloop. I'm finding bay #3 always comes out with the lowest MAH reading.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 25, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> If that's the case then the MH-C9000 is almost worthless to me. The only reason I bought it was to get a very accurate reading of each AA cell I have (with pretty much NO margin of error accross the board) so I can tell the top cells from the average and crappy ones. I might just return mine then. The only real purpose I see of this charger is to find cells that are bad like 1600 mah for an eneloop. I'm finding bay #3 always comes out with the lowest MAH reading.


 
It is possible one channel could be considerably lower or higher reading than the others if the parts used differ from specs but I figure most likely the difference should be less than a few percentage which would be less than 100mah on a 2000mah cell IMO.. to have 1600mah on a 1900mah cell is closer to 15% off which although possible a channel could be off that much is extremely unlikely.


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## CyberCT (Jul 25, 2011)

Right, but what I'm saying is the main reason I got the C9000 was to get the exact mah of each AA I put into the charger. With the variance of each bay, while I might be able to tell one bay is lower if I'm lucky, it's still a crapshoot because of these bay variances. I only would find this device useful if it showed a battery that was significantly underperforming, like 1600mah vs 2000mah. None of my eneloop batteries have shown anything lower than 1953 MAH so far, but I might return it.


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## Gregozedobe (Jul 25, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> Right, but what I'm saying is the main reason I got the C9000 was to get the exact mah of each AA I put into the charger. With the variance of each bay, while I might be able to tell one bay is lower if I'm lucky, it's still a crapshoot because of these bay variances. I only would find this device useful if it showed a battery that was significantly underperforming, like 1600mah vs 2000mah. None of my eneloop batteries have shown anything lower than 1953 MAH so far, but I might return it.



Why not test it yourself ?

Select one battery, charge it up each time in the same slot eg #1 (hopefully that #1 slot will charge up the same amount each time), then discharge that battery in each slot at a representative discharge rate (after charging it in #1 slot). ie charge in slot #1, discharge in slot #1, charge in slot #1, discharge in slot #2, charge in slot #1, discharge in slot #3, charge in slot #1, discharge in slot #4; compare results. If you want to be a bit fussy, repeat the whole exercise several times until you are getting consistent results (some batteries can change capacity with charge/discharge cycles).

Unless you are prepared to buy very expensive, calibrated lab quality electronics the above should give you pretty good real world indications of the difference between the slots on your charger (if any). If you do it, please post the results here, I'm sure plenty of people would be interested.


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## SilverFox (Jul 25, 2011)

Hello CyberCT,

You can pick up a calibrated Cadex C7400 analyzer and achieve the results you are looking for. The run a little more than $2000 + a little more for the adapters and keep in mind that at a minimum you should have the calibration checked yearly.

Tom


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## CyberCT (Jul 25, 2011)

I had to chuckle of your joke.

So there are four independant bays on this charger, each with a margin of error when detecting & displaying the MAH values of each battery. It's a shame there is not one bay where four batteries can be loaded. Hence they would all work off the same hardware or electronics and give results that show the correct real variance in MAH between the four batteries. I'm talking about break-in mode btw.


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## shadowjk (Jul 26, 2011)

If there was one bay with one channel, they'd be treated as a single battery, and you'd only get a single mAh value..


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## CyberCT (Jul 26, 2011)

shadowjk said:


> If there was one bay with one channel, they'd be treated as a single battery, and you'd only get a single mAh value..



What I'm saying is if all four bays worked off the same exact electronics, it would be apples to apples because that one piece of electronics is rating all four batteries. Hence there would be no variations from bay to bay. You know what I mean.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 26, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> What I'm saying is if all four bays worked off the same exact electronics, it would be apples to apples because that one piece of electronics is rating all four batteries. Hence there would be no variations from bay to bay. You know what I mean.


 
There will always be variations. If you are charging more than one cell the heating of adjacent cells affect each other and contacts and board traces and wiring internally can differ. With any electronics you have to decide what is acceptable variance and that is usually tied to the cost.


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## menoceros (Jul 26, 2011)

This is what I was talking about when I mentioned the varience possible because of normal errors. This is not a piece of test equipment. You can't get that for $70. Like Silverfox said, that would cost thousands of dollars and need to be calibrated at least annually. This charger will tell you if yo have a cell that is lower than your others. What we've been discussing is the variety of readings the members have been seeing which are all within the realm of acceptable errors. Having a 2400 cell read 2340 and another read 2295 is not a reason to throw the low cell away. The varience we've been seeing is well within 2-5%. 2% on a 2400 cell is almost 50 mah. so if your cells are all within 30-50 mah; it doesn't matter unless they are all way down at 2000 or something.

You can always buy the ZTS MBT1 tester to check all your cells. It just costs as much as the 9000 charger.


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## CyberCT (Jul 26, 2011)

Hmm well I'm thinking the best thing I'm probably going to do is first do a "break-in" of all my eneloops (32) and Imedions (8). So far I have been recording the Mah of each battery. 24 eneloops are done, 4 are in the C9000 with one more day to go, and 4 more still need the "break-in." THen I will do the same with my Imedions.

Then I'm going to open MS Excel and do some statistical analysis of the batteries charged from each of the four bays. With 40 batteries tested, I guess it would be a good enough random sample to determine, say, Bay 2 is 100%, bay 1 is 96%, bay 3, ... and so on. Then use that as a basis.


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## CyberCT (Sep 23, 2011)

Just an update to my TK41 runtimes. I have 8 Maha Imedion 2400 MAH batteries and 32 Sanyo Eneloops. I also have the Maha MC-9000 charger, which shows the MAH rating of each battery after a "break-in" test. I did this same test with my Imedions and Eneloops. All of which have been cycled over 10 times since purchase before the break-in. I chose the best eneloops of the bunch, the top performing eight that had over 2,000 MAH read from that charger. And the only eight Imedions, which 6 out of 8 came out over 2,300 MAH but under 2,400 MAH. I ran the TK41 on turbo mode, under luke warm water, more toward the cool side, to keep the light cool under turbo. In air, the TK41 gets very hot if left on turbo. With my water test, the TK41 head wasn't hot at all, just luke warm like the water temp. Once the light dropped down to high from turbo, I recorded the time:

Eneloops: 1:31 = 91 minutes
Imedions: 1:43 = 103 minutes

The eight Eneloops averaged 2,015.6 MAH each and the eight Imedions averaged 2,305.4 MAH each.

So for battery capacity, the Eneloops were 87.4% the capacity of the Imedions. The inverse: the Imedions were 114.4% the capacity of the Eneloops.
For runtimes, the Eneloops were 88.3% the runtime of the Imedions. The inverse: the Imedions were 113.2% the runtime of the Eneloops.

So does this mean the Eneloops are slightly more efficient than the Imedions? Either way, about a month ago I charged all my batteries and now when I put them in my Maha 8-bay chargers (2), all the batteries showed still having 3/3 charge levels.


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## Mikl1984 (Sep 24, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> So does this mean the Eneloops are slightly more efficient than the Imedions?


It's named Wh, not efficiency .
Eneloop are able to give you more V under the same load
Just imagine square under discharging curves http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...AA-Batteries&p=3508871&viewfull=1#post3508871


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## Battery Guy (Sep 24, 2011)

A comparison between the Imedion 2400 and Eneloop AA can be found in this thread.

The Imedion 2400 has a higher internal resistance and is indeed less efficient than the Eneloop.


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 24, 2011)

It would be interesting to see capacity comparisons over time (self discharge) of eneloop vs Imedion 2400s. If Eneloops discharged 15% over a year they would go from ~2000 to 1700mah. For Imedions to go to below 1700mah it would take over a 41% discharge approximately.


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## bbb74 (Sep 24, 2011)

Lynx_Arc said:


> It would be interesting to see capacity comparisons over time (self discharge) of eneloop vs Imedion 2400s. If Eneloops discharged 15% over a year they would go from ~2000 to 1700mah. For Imedions to go to below 1700mah it would take over a 41% discharge approximately.



There's already been some like that. They were pretty close from memory, nothing like the difference required for eneloops to "catch up". Eneloops have the advantage in high current applications, lower variability, and allegedly will last longer but haven't seen an actual test to prove that so don't know if its really true or not.

My test has eneloop and imedion (and vapex and powerex) lsd results after one month here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?317990-AA-NiMh-Shootout!!&p=3721820#post3721820

In the process of "using" them a fair bit to see how they go when they're not brand new, because they're only brand new once.


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 25, 2011)

bbb74 said:


> There's already been some like that. They were pretty close from memory, nothing like the difference required for eneloops to "catch up". Eneloops have the advantage in high current applications, lower variability, and allegedly will last longer but haven't seen an actual test to prove that so don't know if its really true or not.
> 
> My test has eneloop and imedion (and vapex and powerex) lsd results after one month here:
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?317990-AA-NiMh-Shootout!!&p=3721820#post3721820
> ...


 
A month isn't much of a test for LSD cell self discharge as most are rated at 85% capacity after a year that means an average of less than 1.5% a month. For the most part it would have to be a year or 2-3 to start making a difference in the 40% self discharge range and I doubt anyone has the patience for that type of test nor waiting that long for results.


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## bbb74 (Sep 25, 2011)

Lynx_Arc said:


> A month isn't much of a test for LSD cell self discharge as most are rated at 85% capacity after a year that means an average of less than 1.5% a month. For the most part it would have to be a year or 2-3 to start making a difference in the 40% self discharge range and I doubt anyone has the patience for that type of test nor waiting that long for results.



Yes it'd probably have to be a few years - if at all. But if you have nimh cells stored that long, you have to ask why? Use lithiums. Its prob better for the health of nimh's to cycle them from time to time as well so leaving them for years you'd have to think about using lithiums instead.

I will be doing a 3 month test, once I get the current stage over and done with.


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 25, 2011)

bbb74 said:


> Yes it'd probably have to be a few years - if at all. But if you have nimh cells stored that long, you have to ask why? Use lithiums. Its prob better for the health of nimh's to cycle them from time to time as well so leaving them for years you'd have to think about using lithiums instead.
> 
> I will be doing a 3 month test, once I get the current stage over and done with.


 
I don't think the verdict is out on storing nimh for years before charging and using them. I have had LSD nimh stored for several years before I used them even before recharging 70-80% capacity is useful vs throwing away up to $2.50 for a disposable battery. At 70% the 2400s should have about 1680 mah capacity in them which even though it is closer to half the capacity of a lithium primary you can recharge it a few times and pay for two L91s in a pinch. I am thinking that cycling nimh in storage is not quite as much needed as people insist as the capacity may be down a bit but I am thinking if you just normally start using them and recharging them they will straighten out anyway.


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## CyberCT (Sep 25, 2011)

Well I just did a turbo runtime test on my TK45 with the Imedions. Fenix states 2 hours on turbo. I got 1 hour 55 minutes until the light's output was high and wouldn't go into turbo. The TK45 has a "safety" circuit that automatically drops from turbo to high after 15 minutes. I set a timer and after 14:30 I cycled through the modes manually from turbo, low, med, high, and turbo again to reset this circuitry timer. I did it very fast, a fraction of a second from turbo to turbo again. I did this all through my runtime test every 14:30. This would keep the light's output on turbo constantly, minus the fraction of a second each time. I also did this test in slightly cool / luke warm water. Just using this light in the air on turbo constantly makes this light get hot. So I corrected for that with my turbo test. The light was barely warm to the touch on turbo everytime I reset the mode.

I recharged my Imedions on my MH-C800S Eight Cell charger in "soft mode" about 24 hours before I used them in the test. I did the same with my Imedions and Eneloops before my TK41 test.

I'm pretty impressed with the Imedions. I'm also still impressed with the TK45. It's got a nice amount of flood. I found it very usefull snorkeling in freshwater, and also walking the woods. Throw is nice, but I prefer flood, and the TK45 still delivers even though it's over a year old.


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## bbb74 (Sep 25, 2011)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I don't think the verdict is out on storing nimh for years before charging and using them. I have had LSD nimh stored for several years before I used them even before recharging 70-80% capacity is useful vs throwing away up to $2.50 for a disposable battery. At 70% the 2400s should have about 1680 mah capacity in them which even though it is closer to half the capacity of a lithium primary you can recharge it a few times and pay for two L91s in a pinch. I am thinking that cycling nimh in storage is not quite as much needed as people insist as the capacity may be down a bit but I am thinking if you just normally start using them and recharging them they will straighten out anyway.



All of that may be true, but my point was just that if you have nimhs sitting in a cupboard for 3 years, then you either bought too many batteries, or should have bought lithiums to sit on the shelf for emergencies instead  The lithium primaries are good for 10+ years, I have heard they are actually good for 40 but they don't want to put that on the packet because nobody would believe it. I doubt a nimh will have much charge left after 10+ years.



CyberCT said:


> Well I just did a turbo runtime test on my TK45 with the Imedions. Fenix states 2 hours on turbo. I got 1 hour 55 minutes until the light's output was high and wouldn't go into turbo.


 
Just to point out, fenix's claims for the tk45 are not ansi standard as they didn't start doing ansi till after the tk45. Great that your result was similar to their claim...and goes to show a slight "gotcha" with ansi runtimes.


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## CyberCT (Sep 26, 2011)

bbb74 said:


> Just to point out, fenix's claims for the tk45 are not ansi standard as they didn't start doing ansi till after the tk45. Great that your result was similar to their claim...and goes to show a slight "gotcha" with ansi runtimes.


 
Not 100% relavant, but since I did the test I'll post. The top 8 performing eneloops of my 32 eneloops were tested in the TK45 today with the same conditions. The light dropped to high from turbo at 1 hour 40 minutes. So that would mean that runtime was 87% of that of the Imedions. Honestly, if the LSD capability is on par with the Eneloops, I think the Imedion is a superior battery.


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## bbb74 (Sep 27, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> Not 100% relavant, but since I did the test I'll post. The top 8 performing eneloops of my 32 eneloops were tested in the TK45 today with the same conditions. The light dropped to high from turbo at 1 hour 40 minutes. So that would mean that runtime was 87% of that of the Imedions. Honestly, if the LSD capability is on par with the Eneloops, I think the Imedion is a superior battery.



Heh, thats cool. If you refer to my testing thread, I tested new eneloops vs imedions in a LD20 torch in turbo (water cooled like you). The eneloops ran for ... wait for it ... 87.58% of the time the imedions did.  I was accurate to within about 5 seconds of seeing when it dropped out of regulation cos I was sitting in the dark with it pointed at the ceiling (with the tv on of course ).


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## CyberCT (Dec 19, 2011)

Any updates to the 3 month LSD test on the eneloops and Imedions? And if that test is still going, when will it be complete?


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## bbb74 (Dec 19, 2011)

It'll be a while yet  The 3 month tests started on the 1st and 3rd of december. (They've done a 1 month and 10 day test after being "used" a lot).


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## CyberCT (Dec 20, 2011)

bbb74 said:


> It'll be a while yet  The 3 month tests started on the 1st and 3rd of december. (They've done a 1 month and 10 day test after being "used" a lot).



Hmmm ... and what were the results of that, the Imedions vs the Eneloops?


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## bbb74 (Dec 20, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> Hmmm ... and what were the results of that, the Imedions vs the Eneloops?



Please see my shootout thread, here: 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?317990-AA-NiMh-Shootout!!


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## 357mag1 (Dec 21, 2011)

I bought 8 of the Imedion AA cells. They started out looking pretty good but do not hold their charge like an Eneloop and two of the eight have already started to die.
The closest cell I've found to an Eneloop is the green top Energizer rated at 2300mah and made in Japan. It isn't even toted as an LSD but holds a charge better than the Imedion seems to last very well. A huge difference compared to the 2500mah Chinese junk they use to sell.


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## CyberCT (Dec 21, 2011)

357mag1 said:


> I bought 8 of the Imedion AA cells. They started out looking pretty good but do not hold their charge like an Eneloop and two of the eight have already started to die.
> The closest cell I've found to an Eneloop is the green top Energizer rated at 2300mah and made in Japan. It isn't even toted as an LSD but holds a charge better than the Imedion seems to last very well. A huge difference compared to the 2500mah Chinese junk they use to sell.



Please give us a little more detail. Started out looking good, as in they all held their charge until what, 20 cycles or so? How long have you left them to sit to determine they don't hold their charge? Two of the eight cells started to die? As in they don't take a charge anymore?

I cycle all my eneloops and Imedions once every month to few months, just to keep them close to their maximum charge. If the Imedion loses it's charge from just sitting without use after a year, that's no biggie in my book because of the rate I recharge them, although it would negate the "LSD" it is sold as.

Can you read the label on each of your Imedions? Does it say made in China or Japan? I will have to check mine when I get home, but I was under the impression the AA and AAA Imedions were made in Japan, and the Imedion C and D cells were made in China. When did you get your Imedions? Did you run a conditioning mode by chance? For my eneloops and Imedions, I run a conditioning mode in my MH-C9000 every 10 or 15 cycles.


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## moldyoldy (Dec 21, 2011)

2400mah Maha LSD Imedion cells losing capacity after 20 cycles? odd. That has not been my experience with some 40-50 cells, either the lower or higher (2400mah) Imedion cells. Some 32 of them were placed with nephews who use them a lot in flashlights and other toys and would have noticed any signifcant change and told me. All were purchased from Thomas Distributing. 

By comparison, the last batch of older-style 9.6v NiMH Maha cells have caused problems. The nominal capacity remains, but the impedance has increased and causes problems in wireless mikes (sibiliance sounds). The lastest LSD 9.6v Maha cells so far are OK, but insufficient use to indicate any pattern.

edit: the 2400mah Imedion LSD cells were manufactured in Taiwan


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## CyberCT (Dec 21, 2011)

moldyoldy said:


> 2400mah Maha LSD Imedion cells losing capacity after 20 cycles? odd.



I was just throwing out a scenareo that the poster could demonstrate how his Imedions were underperforming. There was no scenareo where the cells were losing capacity after 20 cycles. I know mine have been holding up well, but I have not put much use in them unfortunately. From getting my new job to the cooler weather up here in the northeast, we don't go camping and to that sort of thing as much. I need to find more outdoorsy friends haha!


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## 357mag1 (Dec 21, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> Please give us a little more detail. Started out looking good, as in they all held their charge until what, 20 cycles or so? How long have you left them to sit to determine they don't hold their charge? Two of the eight cells started to die? As in they don't take a charge anymore?
> 
> I cycle all my eneloops and Imedions once every month to few months, just to keep them close to their maximum charge. If the Imedion loses it's charge from just sitting without use after a year, that's no biggie in my book because of the rate I recharge them, although it would negate the "LSD" it is sold as.
> 
> Can you read the label on each of your Imedions? Does it say made in China or Japan? I will have to check mine when I get home, but I was under the impression the AA and AAA Imedions were made in Japan, and the Imedion C and D cells were made in China. When did you get your Imedions? Did you run a conditioning mode by chance? For my eneloops and Imedions, I run a conditioning mode in my MH-C9000 every 10 or 15 cycles.



I have had the 2400mah Imedions for about 18months now. I performed a break in for each cell on a MAHA C9000 charger. They tested out at very close to their 2400mah value. When tested under a load 2-5amps they did not hold their voltage as well as the Eneloops in my collection. 
I put them into one of my TK40s which gets used around the house all of the time. I charge the batteries every couple of weeks just to ensure the light is always ready. Within the last 6 months two of the eight always take twice as much charge as the other six. Doesn't matter where I put them in the battery holder. 
I haven't done any more testing than that but my Eneloops and 2300mah Energizer never have that problem.
My AA Imedions are made in Taiwan.

I paid more for the Imedions than the Eneloops. The slightly higher capacity is not worth the extra money to me. With two of the eight apparently dieing I wouldn't waste my money on them if they cost less.


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## bbb74 (Dec 21, 2011)

357mag1 said:


> I have had the 2400mah Imedions for about 18months now. I performed a break in for each cell on a MAHA C9000 charger. They tested out at very close to their 2400mah value. When tested under a load 2-5amps they did not hold their voltage as well as the Eneloops in my collection.
> I put them into one of my TK40s which gets used around the house all of the time. I charge the batteries every couple of weeks just to ensure the light is always ready. Within the last 6 months two of the eight always take twice as much charge as the other six. Doesn't matter where I put them in the battery holder.
> I haven't done any more testing than that but my Eneloops and 2300mah Energizer never have that problem.
> My AA Imedions are made in Taiwan.
> ...



What charge rate are you using? Have you tried doing a discharge first, as its possible its not that it had self discharged more, but that the charge is failing to terminate.


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## bbb74 (Dec 21, 2011)

Double post. Forum waaaaay slow.


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## 357mag1 (Dec 22, 2011)

bbb74 said:


> What charge rate are you using? Have you tried doing a discharge first, as its possible its not that it had self discharged more, but that the charge is failing to terminate.



Funny that you should ask. I just realized it had been about three weeks since I charged those batteries up so I threw them on the charger and decided to perform a discharge first (about 10 minutes ago). I can tell you one of the bad cells is already done and read 4mah. That means it was pretty much dead. I'm waiting to see how the rest make out.

I can tell you from experience my Eneloops at this point would have between 800mah-1000mah and the Rayovac LSDs I use would have about 400-500mah of capacity left. I have three TK40s and only this one with the Imedion cells consistently has two cells low after setting for a two to three weeks.


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## CyberCT (Dec 22, 2011)

357mag1 said:


> I have had the 2400mah Imedions for about 18months now. I performed a break in for each cell on a MAHA C9000 charger. They tested out at very close to their 2400mah value. When tested under a load 2-5amps they did not hold their voltage as well as the Eneloops in my collection.



I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about electronics. What real world application specifically is high load? If my batteries hold up in the TK41 and TK45, that's about as real world high load that I'll need. From my tests (at least initialy, I haven't done more tests since then) my Imedions last about 14% longer in both the TK41 and TK45 than the eneloops did on the "Turbo" mode. Hopefully I have better luck with the Imedions after a year. My Imedions are also made in Taiwan BTW.


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## 357mag1 (Dec 22, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> I'll admit I'm not the most knowledgeable about electronics. What real world application specifically is high load? If my batteries hold up in the TK41 and TK45, that's about as real world high load that I'll need. From my tests (at least initialy, I haven't done more tests since then) my Imedions last about 14% longer in both the TK41 and TK45 than the eneloops did on the "Turbo" mode. Hopefully I have better luck with the Imedions after a year. My Imedions are also made in Taiwan BTW.



In a regulated light like the TK40 or TK45 you will not notice much difference as even on Turbo they don't draw much more than 1amp from the batteries. Using them to drive a ROP LOW that pulls about 2amps from the battery you will notice the light is dimmer. The reason the ROP is dimmer with the Imedions is due to the fact they sag to about 1v at that draw where the Eneloops stay much closer to 1.2v.

Now that I see two of my eight batteries are failing it makes even less sense for me to purchase Imedions ever again.

I've tested their expensive D cells and they didn't fare very well either.


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## CyberCT (Dec 22, 2011)

357mag1 said:


> In a regulated light like the TK40 or TK45 you will not notice much difference as even on Turbo they don't draw much more than 1amp from the batteries. Using them to drive a ROP LOW that pulls about 2amps from the battery you will notice the light is dimmer. The reason the ROP is dimmer with the Imedions is due to the fact they sag to about 1v at that draw where the Eneloops stay much closer to 1.2v.
> 
> Now that I see two of my eight batteries are failing it makes even less sense for me to purchase Imedions ever again.
> 
> I've tested their expensive D cells and they didn't fare very well either.



What is a ROP LOW? Maybe a very high voltage draw degrades the Imedions more than an eneloop. If that's the case, Imedions will do me great for my Fenix flashlights. The only other devices I would use them in would be my weatherband radio (which is not a high voltage drain device) or my keyboard, mouse, or pc xbox 360 controller (all of which currently use my worst yeilding eneloops).


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## 357mag1 (Dec 22, 2011)

CyberCT said:


> What is a ROP LOW? Maybe a very high voltage draw degrades the Imedions more than an eneloop. If that's the case, Imedions will do me great for my Fenix flashlights. The only other devices I would use them in would be my weatherband radio (which is not a high voltage drain device) or my keyboard, mouse, or pc xbox 360 controller (all of which currently use my worst yeilding eneloops).



A ROP LOW is an Incandescent bulb used in a Maglite that draws about 2amps from a stack of six AA batteries. 

Due to the low output the Imedions were only used for a short burst in the ROP. They died during regular use in my TK40. Hopefully you have a better batch than I. Imedions seem to low quality control just like most of the Chinese batteries.

If your set are working fine they may hold up for you. My point was I would never buy them again when the Eneloops are proven reliable. The fact that the Imedions cost more doesn't help them either.

By the way, the batch I took out of my TK40 after approximately three weeks with the light seeing intermittent ranged from 926mah down to 4mah of capacity when discharged on the Maha C9000. One was in the mid 800s, one in the mid 700s, four were from high to low 600s and one at 36mah and the final at 4mah.

My cheap Rayovacs don't come close to being that wacky. I've cycled them a couple of times and the Maha reports them as having capacities from 1678 to 2100mah. That isn't as bad as the old Energizer 2500mah but seems to be running a close second.


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## CyberCT (Dec 23, 2011)

Well I have been running my 16 new Imedions in my TK40 and TK41 for a few cycles now, recharging them in "soft mode" in my Maha MH-C800S chargers (2). I always charge my eneloops and Imedions in "soft mode" using these chargers. After 1 hour 42 minutes or so the TK41 drops from turbo to high. So there isn't much variation so far from my current Imedions (1 hour 43 minutes). The TK40 lasts another 6 minutes maybe, on turbo before switching down. The Imedions that go back on the charger coming out of the TK40 seem to show a little more juice left in them than those coming out of the TK41 (according to the battery picture indicator on the LCD screen on the charger). So I guess the TK41 still drives them harder. 

I can also say that the difference in brightness levels on turbo between the TK40 and TK41 is definately noticable though!


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## menoceros (Dec 25, 2011)

Just as an add-on to the thread. I've had both the old Maha powerex batteries and the new Imedion 2400s. The old ones would self discharge to nothing in about 4 months. 
I bought new Imedion 2400s last January and ran them through my Maha 9000. I was ill from july until now so haven't been around my lights or batteries. The Imedions had lost about 8% in 9 months. It took them all of 25 minutes to recharge, even the ones that were in my lights. As far as how long they'll retain their capacity, I haven't had them long enough to say for sure and I don't use my lights hard. IU'm just happy I can walk away for months and know I'll still have light when I need it.


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## CyberCT (Dec 26, 2011)

menoceros said:


> Just as an add-on to the thread. I've had both the old Maha powerex batteries and the new Imedion 2400s. The old ones would self discharge to nothing in about 4 months.
> I bought new Imedion 2400s last January and ran them through my Maha 9000. I was ill from july until now so haven't been around my lights or batteries. The Imedions had lost about 8% in 9 months. It took them all of 25 minutes to recharge, even the ones that were in my lights. As far as how long they'll retain their capacity, I haven't had them long enough to say for sure and I don't use my lights hard. IU'm just happy I can walk away for months and know I'll still have light when I need it.



Awesome! Thanks for the update.

I ran my first four Imedions I just got in the mail in "break-in" mode on my Maha 9000. I previosly ran all 16 in "conditioning" mode on my two MH-800S chargers (8 bays x 2) and then cycled them about four times in my TK40 and TK41, recharging them all in "soft" mode on the 800S each time. THen I will do a "break-in" for all of them, which the first four are now complete. The values came out 2289, 2273, 2277, and 2283 mah. From all the previous tests I've done on my 9000, bays 2 and 3 are always the weaker reading bays, while 1 and 4 are usually the same or close.

I'm surprised that none are above 2300 mah. Maybe I should have cycled them more before break-in mode?


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## CyberCT (Dec 27, 2011)

An update to the results from my break-in of the 16 Imedions I got. 4 more are done and now off the charger, so I have the results of 8 of 16. Out of this second batch of 4, only one is above 2300 MAH. So 7 are between 2289 and 2255 (2255 is lowest by 18 mah from next lowest, and in the lowest reading bay of my charger too), and only one is 2318 mah, above 2300 mah.

Kind of disappointing. I'm wondering if Maha generally puts their lowest yielding Imedions into the quantity of 16 batch, or I just have a fluke so far. I have 8 more to go, so I'll see where they stand.


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## 357mag1 (Dec 27, 2011)

I've tried to spread the word Imedions are not worth the money. If they were super cheap I still wouldn't get them. For my money there are only two AA Nimh batteries I will purchase. Eneloops and 2300mah Energizers made in Japan. The Chinese and Taiwanese cells leave a lot to be desired. 

Imedion D cells are not worth the cash either. There are other D cells that perfom much better and cost less.


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## CyberCT (Dec 28, 2011)

357mag1 said:


> I've tried to spread the word Imedions are not worth the money. If they were super cheap I still wouldn't get them. For my money there are only two AA Nimh batteries I will purchase. Eneloops and 2300mah Energizers made in Japan. The Chinese and Taiwanese cells leave a lot to be desired.
> 
> Imedion D cells are not worth the cash either. There are other D cells that perfom much better and cost less.



You've definately made your opinion known about these cells, but so far you seem to have a fluke batch or just two fluke cells in your collection there. The ones I bought earlier this year still seem to be doing fine. The guy above has demonstrated their LSD capabilities and there's another test on the LSD capabilites going on as we speak. Even if my newer cells average out to just under 2300 mah it is still a better runtime than the eneloop which is great for me when going out caving. I would bring a batch of eneloops as backup.


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## moldyoldy (Dec 28, 2011)

I agree that any cell brand can experience early failures in use. 

My experience with many (100+) of the 2100 or 2400mah Imedions in the hands of various extended family members and acquaintances has been favorable. Abuse of these cells has been rampant! ie: discharged to fractions of a volt and left that way for days. The LSD aspect has been very appreciated. My experience with Eneloops is admittedly less since I started with the Powerex cells when Eneloops were not on the market. Although I tried out other cells including the Sony LSD cells, I never perceived the need to make any buying habit changes once I switched to LSD cells. 

I have noticed some variation in initial purchased capacity of any repeat purchase over the years, but, the Imedions hold their charge, and so far only 1 failure which was rejected by a charger for high impedance. I do have some cells that are at the 80% number, +/- 10% in flashlight testing. I keep a couple low-cost lights around for some real-world sample testing of incoming cells before release. I have noticed that the Imedions are not quite as good as the Eneloops for the high discharge currents. 

As for "listed" capacity, the manufacturers are constantly leapfrogging each other in _nominal_ capacity. The key is to read the fine print, or specs, as to what the minimum capacity is. For example, the "2400 maH" Imedions list a minimum capacity of 2250 mah. I do not recall any LSD cell (Imedion, Eneloop, Sony) that failed to meet the _minimum_ capacity listed or specified, as tested by a C9000, or BC700/900 after sufficient break-in cycles which can easiily take a half a dozen or more charge/discharge cycles. The difficulty with testing to the minimum capacity is that the tester has to employ the same current parameters for discharge as specified. I worry that the current mah race in LSD cells is leading us back to the same high-discharge mode of the old 2700-2900mah cells! 

BTW, I do NOT purchase any rechargeable cells on eBay. Far far too many fakes floating around. I only purchase from known reputable dealers, as defined as being known to the CPF community for consistent performance. and yes, I have tested and sent back to the dealer many of the old super-high capacity cells due to failures.


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## CyberCT (Dec 28, 2011)

I purchased from an Authorized retailer.

I am going to attempt to run the new Imedion cells through more cycles, and then all my cells (eneloops and Imedions) through the "refresh & analyze" mode on my Maha 9000. I have each cell's readout from the previious "break-in" cycle, so I will switch the bays this time for each cell. I'll see how the variances measure up, but bay #3 seems to almost always read the lowest previously, so I took an average and skewed up the % a little for each cell tested in there.

I also did notice the min 2250 mah reading on each Imedion cell, and good news is that none have shown to be that low yet. I also have the newest firmware version of the Maha 9000, which has been known to rate mah lower than the older firmware.


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## CyberCT (Jan 2, 2012)

Just an update, I ran 12 Imedions through the "refresh and analyze" mode, and 8 eneloops through it too. I will eventually have all my batteries run through this mode, with the next 4 Imedions expected to be ready in a few hours. I know the eneloops have been used maybe twice more than the Imedions, but every single Imedion is showing an INCREASE in mah readout after "refresh & analyze" mode than from "break-in" mode. The range of increase is anywhere from 2 to 23 mah. On the contrast, the 8 eneloops have shown a DECREASE in mah readout after "refresh & analyze" mode than from "break-in" mode. Every eneloop decreased. The range of decrease is from 1 to 32 mah. So it seems my Imedions were not comletely "Broken in" yet, or through enough cycles to reach their potential.

I am matching up each battery to the same bay in my MH 9000 that the "break-in" mode was previously done, so the mah reading per battery should be more accurate and not need to take into account the sligh variation between bay readouts. 

I'll keep you guys posted once done.


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## CyberCT (Jan 27, 2012)

It's been a few weeks, but I ran all my Eneloops and Imedions through a break-in, refresh & analyze, and 1 cycle in my MH-C9000. After adjusting for the 3rd bay reading lower nearly always, and it's always the 1st or 2nd bay that are overall read more. Taking that into account I did a weighting for all the bays with an average of the three modes of cyles I ran my batteries though. I'll have to go back and check but I think my Imedions averaged 2298 MAH and my eneloops were 1973 MAH.

ANyway, I recenly got a PrincetonTec EOS headlamp as a gift and I modded it with a neutral white XPG-R5. It's a fantastic light for caving and camping so I bought some Imedion AAAs. My first break-in of the first four shows all of them were above the 950 mah rating, which is the opposite of the Imedion AAs so to speak. I'll keep doing tests and see where they all end up at.


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## grev (Jan 27, 2012)

This is an interesting comparison, I still have the 20 odd older imedions which I've done the refresh and analyse on my c9000 and they seemed to have lost some capacity, 100-200 or so and I've had them for 3 years or so.


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## CyberCT (Jan 28, 2012)

grev said:


> This is an interesting comparison, I still have the 20 odd older imedions which I've done the refresh and analyse on my c9000 and they seemed to have lost some capacity, 100-200 or so and I've had them for 3 years or so.



Do the break-in cycle instead. Also, when doing the different various types of charge methods of the C9000 I have found some fluctuation with the mah reading of the batteries at the end of the cycle. Like my highest reading Eneloop would come out on top, then 3rd, then on top again. So that is why I did an average of 3 different readouts.


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## Chrisdm (Jan 28, 2012)

Im a pro photographer by trade and ive been running the same 4 sets of the original Imadions in my hotshoe flashes every week for over 4 years and they have never let me down. So when I was looking for some LSD cells for my AA flashlights a couple months ago I didnt hesitate to try these new Imedions, and so far so good.


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## CyberCT (Jan 28, 2012)

Well I'm officially annoyed. My next four Imedion AAAs were done with their break-in mode in my C9000 charger. So I get ready to write down the MAH rating of each battery but move the charger first. I don't know what happened because I moved the charger very softly, but the charger reset. Now I can't do a fair comparison of this set of 4 to the rest of my AAAs in my testing to determine the best and worst of the bunch. I'll have to figure something out. Maybe I'll run two refresh & analyze modes or something on this set for two separate readings, IDK.


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## CyberCT (Jan 30, 2012)

Well the next four AAA Imedions came off the charger. From Break-In mode the lowest reading one is 948 mah and the highest reading one is 908 mah.


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## CyberCT (Feb 12, 2012)

Ran all my Imedion AAA cells through a break-in mode and four cycle modes. Then took the averages. Did a weighting of the batteries in the bays that don't read as high as bay 1 and applied it accross the board. So here are the weighted averages for my batteries:

32 Eneloop AAs: 1,975 mah
16 Imedion AAs: 2,307 mah
16 Imedion AAAs: 954 mah


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## Ualnosaj (Feb 13, 2012)

I bought 2 x 16 count packs of 950mAH (AAA) and 2400mAH (AA) in December. After running through a break-in charge with two MH-9000 chargers, I ran them through the CBA III (AA @ 1A and AAA @ 0.5A) to 0.9v and the result is below. Not all are shown, some are actually being used!  The capacity is pretty consistent. I'm liking them so far.


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## CyberCT (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm reading the picture sideways, but it looks like your numbers are lower than mine. How many different tests did you do on each battery? Did you do an average or is this just numbers from a discharge?

A spreadsheet works well with keeping tabs the different tests readings, bays used in the C9000, and totals and averages 

I picked up little circle stickers at Walmart in four colors green, orange, yellow, and red. Then I put a number of 1 thru 4 per color (Imedions) x 4 colors for 16 ratings for the 16 batteries (AAA). Did the same scenareo for the AAs. works well.


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## Ualnosaj (Feb 13, 2012)

The numbers are lower because I didn't take the "break-in" reading. I took it using the CBA III (AA @ 1A and AAA @ 0.5A) to 0.9v. I'm considering the spreadsheet and dot system since I also have 22 various 18650 and 33 various RCR123  What I REALLY need is a good storage system. Multi level pull-out Rubbermaid shelving just won't do...




CyberCT said:


> I'm reading the picture sideways, but it looks like your numbers are lower than mine. How many different tests did you do on each battery? Did you do an average or is this just numbers from a discharge?
> 
> A spreadsheet works well with keeping tabs the different tests readings, bays used in the C9000, and totals and averages
> 
> I picked up little circle stickers at Walmart in four colors green, orange, yellow, and red. Then I put a number of 1 thru 4 per color (Imedions) x 4 colors for 16 ratings for the 16 batteries (AAA). Did the same scenareo for the AAs. works well.


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## CyberCT (Feb 15, 2012)

For the Imedion AA and Eneloop AA cells, they are an average of 3 runs (1 break-in, 1 cycle, 1 refresh & analyze). For the Imedion AAAs, they are an average of 5 runs (4 x cycle, 1 refresh & analyze).


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## 357mag1 (Feb 17, 2012)

Ualnosaj's system and numbers would be more real world accurate. I know you guys are already invested in the Imedions but you may want to consider the Energizer 2300mah AAs that say PRE-CHARGED down in the lower lefthand corner. These are Japanese made batteries and seem to be a true rival for the Eneloop. I can get them for just under $8 a four pack on base (Military) but they are readily available in Walmart for $10.89. 

They have been averaging 2150mah or better after being off the charger for a day. I get about 1825mah from my Eneloops. This isn't going by the C9000 but doing a straight discharge at 1amp on my Triton2 EQ. These Energizers are holding a higher voltage during discharge than the Eneloops which is awesome. I know for a fact the Imedions sink lower (voltage wise) which will cause our regulated devices to draw more current and deplete the cell quicker than if the voltage stayed higher.


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## CyberCT (Feb 17, 2012)

357mag1 said:


> I know for a fact the Imedions sink lower (voltage wise) which will cause our regulated devices to draw more current and deplete the cell quicker than if the voltage stayed higher.



Do you know of a graph or chart that shows over time how much voltage the Imedions output vs the amperage draw figures? I'm really curious as to how close they are. I still get better runtimes on turbo testing the Fenix TK41, TK45 with the Imedions vs the Eneloops by about 14%, which is the extra mah capacity they are supposed to have vs Eneloops. I don't know how much current those lights are draining from the AA cells.

EDIT: Duh! It's on page 2 of this thread. I haven't read through the whole thread in a while. At 1 amp draw the eneloops & Imedions are nearly identical, with the Eneloops on top. At .5 amp draw, the Imedions are still pretty close, with the Eneloops on top.


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## CyberCT (Feb 17, 2012)

Battery Guy said:


> Well, I haven't got up to 8 amps yet, but here is a comparison of the Eneloop and Imedion 2400 at 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 amps:



The biggest variance is at 0.5 amp draw. And that difference is only what, 0.015v?


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## 357mag1 (Feb 17, 2012)

My Imedions were pretty close to the Eneloops too until after a year or so of use. That is when they started showing large differences. Again this isn't something I went looking for, my TK40 seemed to be dying much too soon. Started searching for the cause, the Imedions were dying and now won't run the light as long as any of my Eneloops. Not even the ones I've purposely abused.

Hopefully your batch of Imedions will hold up better.


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## CyberCT (Feb 23, 2012)

357mag1 said:


> My Imedions were pretty close to the Eneloops too until after a year or so of use. That is when they started showing large differences. Again this isn't something I went looking for, my TK40 seemed to be dying much too soon. Started searching for the cause, the Imedions were dying and now won't run the light as long as any of my Eneloops. Not even the ones I've purposely abused.
> 
> Hopefully your batch of Imedions will hold up better.



That's unfortunate. Hopefully I don't have the same issue. Did do a conditioning mode to your Imedions every 10 cycles or so?


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## 357mag1 (Feb 23, 2012)

CyberCT said:


> That's unfortunate. Hopefully I don't have the same issue. Did do a conditioning mode to your Imedions every 10 cycles or so?



No, I haven't done any since the first cycle but that is the same thing I do with my Eneloops. One of my Imedion cells is almost toast, I recharged them all again yesterday and most took around 400mah but the one cell took almost 1700mah which means it isn't even keeping voltage as well as a regular Nimh.

I did some testing under load while they were out and the bad cell even right off the charger has very limited current capability. The rest actually perform better under load than Rayovac Hybrids. In fact they are closer to the Eneloop in performance than to the Hybrid. 

I still encourage you to take a look at the Energizer 2300mah AA made in Japan "Pre-Charged" cells. I think you would be happy with them when/if your Imedians start to give you trouble. I would point out my Eneloops have been abused in high draw Ican lights and no degraded cells.

I did have a second Imedian acting up but it seems to be back in line with the other cells now. Maybe it was next to the faulty cell and being dragged down.

I'm doing some discharge test at 1.5amps on a bunch of AA cells right now as that corresponds to the current draw they see in my Quark Turbos. I will let you know how it goes.


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## CyberCT (Feb 24, 2012)

The highest draining device I have for my AA batteries is the Fenix TK41. I don't have any custom direct drive flashlights or anything like that where these cells will really be put to the test.


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## 357mag1 (Feb 24, 2012)

CyberCT said:


> The highest draining device I have for my AA batteries is the Fenix TK41. I don't have any custom direct drive flashlights or anything like that where these cells will really be put to the test.



Without boring you with the details even the best Imedion AA cells I'm testing aren't able to hang with the Energizer 2300mah cells when discharging at 1.5amps which is close to what the TK41 will draw.

If your Imedion cells are like the better cells in this batch you might edge out Eneloops in a runtime test on Turbo. I'm doing some testing because last night I noticed my TK60 was getting beat pretty handily by my TK41. I was using the New AccuEvolution cells figuring the lower current draw was a good place for them. Maybe the TK60 thought they were Alkalines but it was only drawing about 2300mah using 3 cells. I swapped in the Blue Tenergy cells and my current jumped up to 2800mah and it was edging out my TK41. I mention this here because previously I've told you the TK60 didn't seem as bright as my TK41s. Well it now appears that questionable cells can potentially cause lower output in some of our regulated lights. It may be a unique condition to the TK series designed to work on both alkaline and nimh.


I have two TK41s and when I'm finished discharge testing I will compare them with Imedion AA cells and Energizer 2300mah cells to see if the light output is any different. I will swap battery packs between them to allow for any differences in the individual TK41s.


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## CyberCT (Mar 18, 2012)

357mag1 said:


> Without boring you with the details even the best Imedion AA cells I'm testing aren't able to hang with the Energizer 2300mah cells when discharging at 1.5amps which is close to what the TK41 will draw.
> 
> If your Imedion cells are like the better cells in this batch you might edge out Eneloops in a runtime test on Turbo. I'm doing some testing because last night I noticed my TK60 was getting beat pretty handily by my TK41. I was using the New AccuEvolution cells figuring the lower current draw was a good place for them. Maybe the TK60 thought they were Alkalines but it was only drawing about 2300mah using 3 cells. I swapped in the Blue Tenergy cells and my current jumped up to 2800mah and it was edging out my TK41. I mention this here because previously I've told you the TK60 didn't seem as bright as my TK41s. Well it now appears that questionable cells can potentially cause lower output in some of our regulated lights. It may be a unique condition to the TK series designed to work on both alkaline and nimh.
> 
> ...



Any updates on this?


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## 357mag1 (Mar 18, 2012)

CyberCT said:


> Any updates on this?



Due to one Imedion cell definitely failing at this point I can't complete my tests with the TK41. I only have eight of the Imedion cells so using a known bad cell wouldn't be a fair comparison. 
I did use a single cell AA light I have that will draw over 3amps from a strong Nimh battery. The better the battery the more it will draw. The Imedions actually performed quite well in this test being able to deliver over 2800ma compared to the Eneloops doing 3100ma and the Energizers reaching 3200ma.
The only other non-Japanese battery to get that close was the Yusa 2500mah LSD batteries I have. Most could only muster between 2400ma and 2600ma.
I'm at Bike Week at the moment but may purchase another set of Imedions when I return just so I can complete the test with the TK41s.


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