# BatteryStation 123A goes boom in a G2 with Kroma TailCap"



## kumar762 (Nov 9, 2006)

The other day I had a surefire G2 explode in my pocket.Here was the setup:
Surefire G2(duh!)
Pyrex lens
battery station 123A's
KROMA tailcap
P60 lamp assembly
When the one of the lithium batteries exploded the light was very hot and the tailcaps rubber boot was about the size of a golf ball,the lens and nylon ring were blown right off the bezel.I have yet to know the casue of this but i suspect the dual stage tailcap and the battery stations could be something to worry about.It gave off quite a smell when I pulled it out the pocket




,it was also very hot so I ripped off my kroma tailcap and chucked the rest off the light out the window which I later recovered.There was a black residue everywhere.If anyone has any insight on this please let me no.


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## Size15's (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

Why were you using the Kroma's two-stage TailCap on a G2?

Was it locked out at the time?

Please can you post some photos.

This is not the first time CR123A batteries have 'exploded' in a flashlight. The CR123A batteries explode all sorts of nasty chemicals. Handle the flashlight with extreme care wearing gloves and outside in moving air.

Al


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## kumar762 (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

no it was not locked out .I'll post some pictures of it when i get home later on tonight.I forgot to add that the lamp assembly is now dead.I was using the tailcap on the KROMA because it worked awesomely with a high and low beam.


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## dchao (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

You should change the title to:

*Battery Station 123A's go Boom*

:thumbsdow


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## Size15's (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: BatteryStation 123A goes boom in a G2 with Kroma TailCap*



dchao said:


> You should change the title to:
> *Battery Station 123A's go Boom*
> :thumbsdow



In the attempt to be accurate perhaps the title should be "BatteryStation 123A goes boom in a G2 with Kroma TailCap".

Certainly Battery Station CR123A's have been reported to 'explode' before but in this case I make the assumption that the flashlight was allowed to be switched on unattended in a confined space which is not good for any brand of CR123A. I don't know whether Battery Station batteries are any more likely to fall under such circumstances. I don't know whether the two-stage TailCap made matters worse.

Bottomline: The flashlight should have been disabled for transporation/carry in a confined space in which it could easily be activated.


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## Amonra (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

is there a possibility that the kroma tailcap ( or something else for that matter ) shorted the batts ? that could explain why it got so hot.


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## js (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

kumar,

DO NOT BREATH ANY OF THE FUMES. DO NOT TOUCH ANY OF THE RESIDUE. BE CAREFUL. THIS STUFF IS TOXIC!

As for why it happened, I have a pretty good guess, depending on how the Kroma tailcap works:

If it works like the A2/L1/L2 LOTC, it has a small value resistance when it is turned back just enough to not be fully on. Thus even though no light was coming from your filament, it is likely that something like a 10 ohm resistor was in series with the filament and battery, thus drawing 300 mA of current through the circuit. Not enough to light the filament, but enough to drain down the batteries. ALL THE WAY. And if one battery was in a different state of charge than the other, you get one battery actually CHARGING the other, when the low one gets cell reversal. Re-charging primary 123's is bad, bad, bad. So it goes BOOM!

I'm pretty sure that the BS 123's have been experiencing some problems with self-discharge rates all over the map. So in a batch of 12, 3 may go down to 20 or 10 percent, and the others stay up at 90 or 100.

Result? Radical cell mis-match.

In any case, take care of yourself and those near you. Don't breath fumes. Wear gloves. And especially don't let pets get anything on them.

Be careful!

I'm sorry this happened to you, and I'm glad you weren't injured.


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## Size15's (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

Jim,
Your reasoning seems reasonable.
One thing though - I've carried the A2, L2, L1 and "Kroma" for ages and ages putting I guess in the region of over a hundred sets of batteries through them and never experienced any unexplained or unexpected short runtimes. Mostly the TailCap is left so that only the low beam can be activated momentary on/off when I carry them clipped inside my pocket.

Could it be that the low beams of the L1/L2/A2/K2 are so easy to drive that the two-stage TailCaps when the resistor is in ciruit result in light output. Compare this to the unregulated P60 which is much harder to drive and I can understand that the two-stage switch (which is only intended for the Kromas) can cause the batteries to drain without the P60 illuminating if not locked out.

Al


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## Art Vandelay (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

You might want to see a Doctor just in case. Are you feeling short of breath?

How tight was the spring when you put the Kroma tailcap on the G2?


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## js (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

Al,

Yes. Exactly what I was thinking.

Using a Kroma or A2 tailcap in a Kroma or an A2, WILL ACTUALLY RESULT IN LIGHT OUTPUT when the tailcap is in the "low-beam" position. So when you turn it off, you REALLY TURN IT OFF--all the way to the point where the 10 ohm resistor is not in circuit anymore (but not necessarily to a lockout position).

However, using that same tailcap in a light driving only a P60 or P61 (or similar), and the low current that the tailcap passes in "low' positon, is seen as being "off" becuase there is no light.

This, will, however, drain the batteries nonetheless.

That said, I know *nothing* about the Kroma tailcap. Only saying that IF it were like the A2 LOTC, then I had an idea. Most times when one of your cells reverses, the light output goes very dim, giving you a headsup--TURN OFF--but not i the case considered here, as there isn't even light output with two fully charged 123's. (In this theory, anyway)

That all by itself wouldn't be enough, though. If the cells are matched, and you draw them down, they just go dead. You need one to be nearly dead, and one to be full. That's when you get the cell reversal, and then one cell charging the other.

Those are my thoughts, anyway. FWIW. Just a theory as to what MAY have happened.

Does anyone know for sure exactly how the kroma tail cap DOES work, BTW? Because, it would seem to be a bad idea to use it in anything but the kroma I would think.


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## Size15's (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

My understanding is that the Kroma TailCap works exactly like the A2/L1/L2 TailCap.


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## kumar762 (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*

yeah I didn't want anything to do with the fumes and such so I chucked it out the window,then later went back and retrieved the remains.the cells were not mis matched either I had pulled them out the package the day before:thumbsdow .I have used the KROMA tailcap on the P60 before and It worked great,but the first time I did I used energizer 123A's.I'll be changing the title.


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## BBL (Nov 9, 2006)

The chanze to find two cells with the same charging level in a batch of 50 battery station cells is about 1:10 ... at least was that the case with my '05 batch of 50 cells.

It seems plausible to me too, that the tailcap was in low mode and drained the cells to zero, with nasty results.


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## Size15's (Nov 9, 2006)

*Re: G2 goes boom!*



kumar762 said:


> the cells were not mis matched either I had pulled them out the package the day before:thumbsdow



I think the point is that its not possible to tell whether they are mismatched without carefully testing them first.


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## kumar762 (Nov 9, 2006)

I've already inspected the tailcap for damage and it highly resembles the tailcap of my L2 no differences that I can notice.I can sure say it scared the crap outta my girlfriend when this thing went off!!:lolsign: maybe it's time for a tester from lighthound?


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## kumar762 (Nov 9, 2006)

HMMM?? maybe this is why PK chose to regulate the A2?


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## carrot (Nov 9, 2006)

Please post pics so that we may examine the extent of the explosion?


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## js (Nov 9, 2006)

kumar,

This could happen to the A2 as well. The regulation wouldn't stop this from happening. What would stop it from happening would be the fact that you would turn off the light, and would not leave it ON unwittingly.

It probably boils down to these things:

1. Using the kroma tailcap meant you were draining down the cells and didn't know it.
2. The cells were mismatched and you didn't know it. This isn't your fault! There have been a rash of such issues lately. First with the AmondoTech Titanium 123's, and next with the BatteryStation 123's. You buy a box of them and expect them all to be fully charged, right? I mean HELLO! They are all new, so they should all be 100 percent full, right? Unfortunately, no. I had 30 Titanium 123's go south on me, some of them to nothing, some to half charge or so, and some didn't go south at all and were still close to 100 percent.

This is a disastrous situation, ESPECIALLY, if you have no way of telling when (and if) one of the cells undergoes cell reversal.

When cell reversal happens, the positive and negative contacts switch polarities, just as if you had the cell inserted into the light backwards. Now, normally, if that happens, your light output will just SUCK because the voltage of the one cell counteracts the voltage of the other cell. (The reversed cell's voltage is lower than the good cell, so you still have SOME total voltage)

But, in your case, I suspect that you were drawing a small current for a while before, when you thought your light was "OFF". It was, in the sense that it was making no light, but it was NOT, in the sense that current was still flowing and the weak cell was drawn down to zero, then reversed, then charged, then exploded.

That's the theory, anyway.

What was happening before you picked up the light? When was it that you installed new batteries? And did you move the tail cap position from install until activation? What exactly happened? The more details you provide the better.


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## greenLED (Nov 9, 2006)

post pics, kumar, so we can assess the damage better


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## kumar762 (Nov 9, 2006)

I can't post them now i won't be home for another hour or so,therefore I don't have access to the light,but yes I believe you are right If the tailcap does discharge with my knowing then that's what happened I keep my lights on a standby type deal when I'm out and about.So it was not locked out.I think I'll be sticking to the SF123A's from now on just to be safe . . . .and no more kroma tailcaps on incans . . .which is unfortunate because It worked so awesome


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## Size15's (Nov 9, 2006)

kumar762 said:


> no more kroma tailcaps on incans . . .which is unfortunate because It worked so awesome


I suspect your girlfriend disagrees with the combination being "awesome"!


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## greenLED (Nov 9, 2006)

no problem, but do post them when you get a chance so we can document this failure properly


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## dchao (Nov 9, 2006)

kumar,

I think, in the low mode, you are putting way too much current down that resistor in the tailcap. We don't know what rating does that resistor have, but probably 1/2W. 1W resistor maybe too big to fit into the tailcap.

In low mode, you are more than likely to be putting 200mA down that resistor (10 ohm?) in low mode. 

Since power (W) = I x I x R = 0.2 x 0.2 x 10 = 0.4W

So I think you blew the resistor first, and that caused a short and then the Lithium 123 batteries exploded. 

I hope you are ok.


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## js (Nov 9, 2006)

dchao said:


> kumar,
> 
> I think, in the low mode, you are putting way too much current down that resistor in the tailcap. We don't know what rating does that resistor have, but probably 1/2W. 1W resistor maybe too big to fit into the tailcap.
> 
> ...



YES! This might be exactly what happened! The TC resistor certainly wouldn't handle .4 watts. It is actually three small surface mount resisitors in parallel, one for each of the floating tabs in the tailcap. But I don't know exactly what their power rating is.

Anyway, on another note, yes, sticking to SureFire or Duracell 123's is the best bet. It just isn't worth it to save a little money for cells whose quality is questionable.

Or if people must use BS or Titanium or whatever, a ZTS tester is a very good idea.


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## kumar762 (Nov 9, 2006)

alright the USB ports and my camera is all out of whack so I'll post pics early tommorow morning unless someone can PM or IM me a solution to this problem it's driving me nutz!


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## NewBie (Nov 9, 2006)

I'm curious, on the G2, is it possible to have the rubber tail swollen like a golf ball, while the front bezel is blown out of the flashlight?

If someone can explain that to me, I'm all ears.


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## elgarak (Nov 9, 2006)

NewBie, kumar used the Kroma tailcap, not the stock G2 twisty. Which might have a strong contributing factor for the cause of the event.


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## glockboy (Nov 10, 2006)

Picture?  :candle: :thinking:picture? :laughing:


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## matrixshaman (Nov 10, 2006)

Sorry if this thing blew up. However I smell something more than battery fumes here. When this happened to LunarModule he was offered a new flashlight from Batterystation. Only later it appeared there was a bit more to the story (many deals gone bad - disappeared for long periods - see this thread on LM : http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124200&highlight=LunarModule ). May I also please refer all members to this thread in the Jeers section - about kumar762 : http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=138345
Sorry if I'm being cynical here but having read a bunch of this just lately this seems too much like deja vu. There was little discussion in the original thread where LunarModule brought up his 'explosion' but in the Jeers thread there is some suspicion whether this really went down like it was told. A quote about LM from that thread by one of our very respected members: "BTW, he is a pro at playing the injured/wounded/suffering victim. Fact is, I think he's schizophrenic. Maybe he'll snap out of it if he gets back on his meds." At the very least we need some pics here kumar762 and after you scammed a bunch of people out of their lights and money before I personally am not too inclined to believe much you say here. Yes I know you ended up returning most - but your credibility at this time is still extremely low.


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## benighted (Nov 10, 2006)

I was thinking the same exact thing but didn't want to be the one to point it out... It does seem odd.



matrixshaman said:


> Sorry if this thing blew up. However I smell something more than battery fumes here. When this happened to LunarModule he was offered a new flashlight from Batterystation. Only later it appeared there was a bit more to the story (many deals gone bad - disappeared for long periods - see this thread on LM : http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=124200&highlight=LunarModule ). May I also please refer all members to this thread in the Jeers section - about kumar762 : http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=138345
> Sorry if I'm being cynical here but having read a bunch of this just lately this seems too much like deja vu. There was little discussion in the original thread where LunarModule brought up his 'explosion' but in the Jeers thread there is some suspicion whether this really went down like it was told. A quote about LM from that thread by one of our very respected members: "BTW, he is a pro at playing the injured/wounded/suffering victim. Fact is, I think he's schizophrenic. Maybe he'll snap out of it if he gets back on his meds." At the very least we need some pics here kumar762 and after you scammed a bunch of people out of their lights and money before I personally am not too inclined to believe much you say here. Yes I know you ended up returning most - but your credibility at this time is still extremely low.


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## KROMATICS (Nov 10, 2006)

matrixshaman said:


> At the very least we need some pics here kumar762 and after you scammed a bunch of people out of their lights and money before I personally am not too inclined to believe much you say here. Yes I know you ended up returning most - but your credibility at this time is still extremely low.



Using sympathy as a means of regaining trust perhaps? 







Lets see this bloated G2 and scuffed up KROMA.


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## photorob (Nov 10, 2006)

This kid is still allowed to post on this site?


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## B737Driver (Nov 10, 2006)

Soon after this thread got started, I got the   out. This could get very interesting!


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## BBL (Nov 10, 2006)

dchao said:


> kumar,
> So I think you blew the resistor first, and that caused a short and then the Lithium 123 batteries exploded.


What would be shorted exactly when that happens? The body-tube against the negative terminal of the battery? thats how any tailcap works and would cause the light to work in high-mode, nothing else.


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## LifeNRA (Nov 10, 2006)

KROMATICS said:


> Using sympathy as a means of regaining trust perhaps?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was my first thought as well.
I can't believe he is posting again like nothing ever happened.


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## Christoph (Nov 10, 2006)

:tinfoil: :shakehead


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## strat1080 (Nov 10, 2006)

I think it would have been a good idea to contact Surefire if it was ok to use a Kroma tailcap before trying it out. That way if something goes wrong you have it on the record that somebody told you it was ok. Now you're out a light and its doubtful that anybody will replace it for you. Its never good to just assume that something is going to work. Also Surefire bulbs are Xenon/Halogen filled and are designed to work at high filament temperatures. Using a 2 stage switch to dim the LA is probably not a good idea, even if it was completely safe.


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## BrighTor (Nov 10, 2006)

+1 to the skeptical posts. I just didn't want to be the first to say it. I was kind of shocked when I saw a new post from him after reading the jeers post a few days back as well.


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## cmacclel (Nov 10, 2006)

First off with all the problems the original poster has caused I find it very suprising he has not been banned.

Also I'm not "getting" all the talk about the Kroma tailcap. Why would the tailcap even matter? Is it going to make the light draw more current than the original tailcap? I doubt it. 

You should be able to DIRECTLY SHORT these cells and the PTC should kick in before any damage it done..... period. Well thats how it should be anyway 


Mac


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## leukos (Nov 10, 2006)

If the explosion really happened, it may be poetic justice!


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## BUZ (Nov 10, 2006)

photorob said:


> This kid is still allowed to post on this site?


 
X2


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## Kiessling (Nov 10, 2006)

This thread is getting a little bit out of hand. It is closed for review by administration until further notice.
bernie


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