# Service Technician Sans Flashlight



## LedTed (Aug 25, 2015)

This morning … A service technician showed up at my work in response to an intermittent click and leak associated with one HVAC vent. The technician arrived with no tools or even a flashlight. He opened a ceiling tile, shoved aside some loose items without removing them, had the nerve to say that he really couldn’t see anything, explained that he needed to “get some stuff”, and left.

Four hours later … No sign of the technician. I have been constantly listening to the intermittent click turned into the sound of someone in the vent, wearing sewing thimbles, and constantly and rhythmically tapping his fingertips on the vent. 

I’d like to think that the guy wouldn’t have made thing worse if he at least brought a flashlight to see what he was doing in the first place.


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## srvctec (Aug 25, 2015)

I don't see how a service technician (see my username) can begin to do their job without a flashlight. I work on copiers for a living (in my 26th year) and use my EDC flashlight, currently a Zebralight SC32w, numerous times on each service call.


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## AVService (Aug 25, 2015)

There are no dumber than those who are not smart.

I am amazed every single day myself at the seeming complete lack of common sense of most techs I am in contact with.


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## Search (Aug 25, 2015)

Work at a chemical/plastic compounding plant in logistics. During nights I'm constantly in the vast rail yards or messing with the many, many bulk silos. I nearly burn through a battery on my EB1 a week out there when I've rotated to nights. Most guys carry their issued AA Mini-Mag. I don't have a clue how they do their job.

EDIT** Maybe that's why I'm always so busy catching up.. I'm the only one that can see :candle:


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## WarRaven (Aug 25, 2015)

Couple years ago, basement furnace quit, dead of winter of course.
Called in HVAC guy, sold me a new motor installed.
He did it via laundry room light, no flashlight.

Starts furnace up, and was cleaning up when I came back. He's so happy with himself and I ask him if it all went well, he replies yup, had some issues seeing in dark but he managed.
I said on, could have asked for a light, was told it wasn't needed really. I then asked if heat was supposed to be coming out of fresh air intake.. He doesn't respond, I shut off furnace.
He said why, I mention maybe put hand on fresh air vents.

Alarmed he says that's not right, no really I say.
I could have lost my shoe in his well never mind. 
Not prepared, guessed and ignored potential.
No light, no worthy.


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## markr6 (Aug 25, 2015)

That's pretty crazy. No excuse really. Anyone should at least pick up a 2-pack of those junk LEDs at Walgreens or Home Depot if and keep them in the truck.

When maintenance guys or exterminators come to work they usually have some crappy cool blue light, maybe a 2AA maglite, but at least they realize the necessity of having something.


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## Tac Gunner (Aug 25, 2015)

Mechanics are the same way. I used to work for a parts store and when I would deliver parts to garages I'd see mechanics have their iPhone out trying to see where a leak was coming from that was way back up behind who knows how many brackets in the center of the engine. What killed me the most was when those same guys would give me a hard time for always carrying a flashlight, I would always just tell em you never know when you might need one. I have done mechanic work all my life and always understood the need for lights and I'm only 20. I'm going to school for aviation maintenance and on our list of required tools is a flashlight, of course I have one but the rest of the students rely on their phones and then complain because it isn't bright enough or is to floody to see back up in compartments and inspection ports.

On the other hand a family friend was over Saturday who is an hvac tech and he noticed I was checking the voltage on one of my lights and made the comment he needed a new light. We talked about what and how he used it and said he wanted it rechargeable. After looking at couple of different lights he settled on a Fenix UC35. I'm still not sure he quite understands how big of a leap he made from his mini mag led pro or not even though I showed him how bright it would be lol. At least we know there is one tech who will be well equipped in the lighting area, oh and I may have convinced him to try a headlamp too.


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## WarRaven (Aug 25, 2015)

Nice, it applies to any trade indeed.
I'm a mechanic but took tools home, diesel bug bit me for last couple years.
One of my best tool dealers used to carry anything you could want in a flashlight back in the day of incandescent, was an Allied Tool guy. Miss that diverse selection they had. 
Lights then, didn't last long.

Best quote I've read on furnaces, never let a auto mechanic adjust it.
We like tight too much it seems.
That was a serious quote, and does make sense generally. 

So a jumbled together lesson for me, is I may look goofy with my gear, but I'm the reasonably best prepared I can be at any one time and look for that handiness in others irl.
I need a CPF badge.


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## Grizzman (Aug 25, 2015)

The last service/installation tech to visit my house was from Google. He may be highly tech savvy, but his light of choice was his phone.


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## maglite mike (Aug 25, 2015)

It's one of my peeves too. I'm a property manager and If I got a dollar for every time I met a contractor and he asked to borrow my flashlight or he pulls out some bs $3 flashlight! Drives me nuts. It says a lot about the contractor if you ask me...


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## Monocrom (Aug 25, 2015)

The only thing more idiotic than a technician without a quality light, is a security officer without one. And some of you guys know what I do for a living. Looking back, I've worked with one officer who had a proper light. That's in 6 years and having worked with around 40 others. 

If such a technician showed up at my job, and pulled the same nonsense; I'd pick up the phone and file a complaint with his boss.


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## LedTed (Aug 26, 2015)

Monocrom said:


> If such a technician showed up at my job, and pulled the same nonsense; I'd pick up the phone and file a complaint with his boss.



Yesterday, the technician in the OP never returned. Today, the new and now greatly annoying noise is still present, but the work order has been closed. So, I may have to take your approach.


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## Dr. Strangelove (Aug 26, 2015)

35 years ago when I was a technician, we used these:







It was the original battery crusher. Talk about battery rattle! But at least you could easily change from bezel (bulb) up to bezel down, just unscrew both ends and turn the tube around!





Boy, were we glad when MiniMags came out!


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## Burgess (Aug 26, 2015)

Great thread here !

lovecpf



The classic old flashlight shown above
has reminded me of my very first EDC flashlight.


Eveready model # 9215 ( 2 x AA , with a # 222 bulb )

Year is 1976 -- Finally found something sufficiently worthy
to carry around every day, which would serve my needs.

Not a technician, but I'm quite a technical nerd, 
and very often had use for a flashlight.
Can't beat the convenience of having one
right in your pocket. All the time !

These models would last me about a year or two.
Weakness was their pocket clip, eventually pulling out.
So I'd simply go the the Drug Store, 
and purchase a new one !

This was my EDC for 8 Years !
Served me quite well.

http://www.flashlightmuseum.com/Eve...with-Black-Cap-and-Red-Button-Switch-2AA-1976


Eventually replaced in 1984,
when the brand-new Mini-Maglite was introduced !

See my entire story here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ni-Mag-light&p=1691022&viewfull=1#post1691022


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## GearHunter (Aug 27, 2015)

I am the staff maintenance electrician for a regional shopping center ( mall ). I am the electrical portion of a team of six consisting of myself, a plumber, an HVAC guy, a couple of general laborers and an landscape dude and I am the only one with a flashlight....heck I'm the only one with a light or a leatherman! I don't know how these guys do their job....anyway the sad part is none of the security guys carry a light. The dept head told me once when I asked why his guys didn't carry lights? he said " they aren't smart enough to change the batteries so I keep a rechargeable mag light in the security office so if they need one they know where it is. ". I work over nights on occasion when I need to shut down power to a large portion of the property and always see the security guy walking by phone light.....


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## WarRaven (Aug 27, 2015)

Kudos to you Gear!

Some folks will use a match to check a gas tank, 
some folks will have grandkids. 

Careful around your co workers, usually greatest threat to my well being☺


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## insanefred (Aug 27, 2015)

Oh this thread.... so, shameful. :shakehead

As a part of my county's search and rescue team, headlamp is one of the first things on our required items, including a back-up.
There was a call out for a search, when we got to the trail head to look for two lost and over exhausted hikers. It is almost 2130, it's dark out, one person on our team says he doesn't have a light. WTF! Few of us loaned him our backups, so he could go. This is someone I am suppose to be able to trust with my life, how irresponsible this is unfathomable. 

I understand we are volunteers and money can be an issue, but this needs to be remedied before you even respond the the call out!


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## Monocrom (Aug 27, 2015)

GearHunter said:


> I am the staff maintenance electrician for a regional shopping center ( mall ). I am the electrical portion of a team of six consisting of myself, a plumber, an HVAC guy, a couple of general laborers and an landscape dude and I am the only one with a flashlight....heck I'm the only one with a light or a leatherman! I don't know how these guys do their job....anyway the sad part is none of the security guys carry a light. The dept head told me once when I asked why his guys didn't carry lights? he said " they aren't smart enough to change the batteries so I keep a rechargeable mag light in the security office so if they need one they know where it is. ". I work over nights on occasion when I need to shut down power to a large portion of the property and always see the security guy walking by phone light.....



MagCharger takes 16 hours of recharge time for 1 hour of output. You know there are times someone used it, or more likely played with it, then left it off the charger. So it didn't work. But yeah, some guys just refuse to spend a dime of their own money just to buy an even half decent flashlight.


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## pvsampson (Aug 27, 2015)

Had a guy come to fit new internal doors in our rental this week.His drill/screwdriver had a light on it that came on whenever he pressed the switch,but it actually didn't light up the chuck or even the screw he was trying to put in,and he actually used it to try and mark where to drill pilot holes.Got the M11R Dream and he said "That's better" and then I showed him my modest selection.He loved the SRT7..."How much and where do I get one?"


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## xzel87 (Aug 28, 2015)

The only service/repair technician that I ever saw with a dedicated light was the photocopier service/repair tech. It was a showerhead multi LED flashlight, but at least he had his own light.

I've seen a PLUMBER using their smartphone lights trying to illuminate a ceiling leak more than 10 feet away. He said there was no leak, so I took out my EDC (Olight s20 at the time) and lit up the huge water stain, moulds and water droplets seeping through. He didn't say anything else and went ahead with the repairs.

HVAC techs servicing our AC are the same, they recently had to cut the ceiling to identify a leak, no lights, out with the phone lights again.


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## ScottFree (Aug 30, 2015)

insanefred said:


> Oh this thread.... so, shameful. :shakehead
> 
> As a part of my county's search and rescue team, headlamp is one of the first things on our required items, including a back-up.
> There was a call out for a search, when we got to the trail head to look for two lost and over exhausted hikers. It is almost 2130, it's dark out, one person on our team says he doesn't have a light. WTF! Few of us loaned him our backups, so he could go. This is someone I am suppose to be able to trust with my life, how irresponsible this is unfathomable.
> ...



Personally I would have sent him home with a few choice words behind him instead of him receiving backup lights that someone could have needed (2 = 1, 1 = 0) but I can certainly understand that this may not be an option. Did he learn his lesson and did you find the hikers in the end?.


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## lunas (Aug 31, 2015)

I carry 4 lights typically 
A fenix e05 2014
Fenix e99 ti
Mini mag aaa led 80 lumens
A solarforce l2p with xml2 one mode on or off


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## insanefred (Aug 31, 2015)

ScottFree said:


> Personally I would have sent him home with a few choice words behind him instead of him receiving backup lights that someone could have needed (2 = 1, 1 = 0) but I can certainly understand that this may not be an option. Did he learn his lesson and did you find the hikers in the end?.



I am not sure if he learned his lesson because he wasn't sent home. We have a mandatory meeting this week, I wouldn't be surprise at all if the advisers bring this up. Another team met up with the hikers, we had three teams, for three trail heads, all about 3-5 miles in. My team never made it past 3/4th mile due to people not being ready when they should of.


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## parnass (Sep 2, 2015)

The last HVAC tech who visited our house said he doesn't use a flashlight. He uses the light from his cell phone instead.


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## insanefred (Sep 3, 2015)

parnass said:


> The last HVAC tech who visited our house said he doesn't use a flashlight. He uses the light from his cell phone instead.



fire him


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## 18650 (Sep 3, 2015)

LedTed said:


> This morning … A service technician showed up at my work in response to an intermittent click and leak associated with one HVAC vent. The technician arrived with no tools or even a flashlight. He opened a ceiling tile, shoved aside some loose items without removing them, had the nerve to say that he really couldn’t see anything, explained that he needed to “get some stuff”, and left. Four hours later … No sign of the technician. I have been constantly listening to the intermittent click turned into the sound of someone in the vent, wearing sewing thimbles, and constantly and rhythmically tapping his fingertips on the vent. I’d like to think that the guy wouldn’t have made thing worse if he at least brought a flashlight to see what he was doing in the first place.


 MY HVAC tech is a cut above yours. When I watched him open up the ceiling tile to take a peek at the insides, he pulled out a 9 LED shower head.


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## RedLED (Sep 3, 2015)

Dude,

Is there something in the water in your town? Seriously though, there is nothing worse than a goof technician when you need something fixed.


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## GearHunter (Sep 4, 2015)

Ok here's one that I'm still having a hard time believing and it just happened to me....my boss called me on the radio, told me to jump in the shop truck and meet him at the opposite end of the property at one of the out buildings. I get there go into this building and down into the basement where I find my boss , a structural engineer, two plumbers and a guy from the city all standing in the dark around a manhole using cell phones trying to see what's in it! My boss says " hey can we use your light to shine down in there and see if it's flooded?" !!!!! I told him NO! ( again ) and picked up a broken piece of brick and tossed it into the hole....when it splashed I said " yep it's flooded, see you after lunch "


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## recDNA (Sep 4, 2015)

Your boss will now be on a vendetta against you


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## GearHunter (Sep 4, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Your boss will now be on a vendetta against you




Na....he's used to it by now. I was a smart *** when he hired me and by now he should be real clear about the fact I'm never going to hand him my HDS. He once dropped my fenix pd30 into a wall so I cut a 2 foot hole at the bottom to retrieve it and left it for him to patch....


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## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2015)

GearHunter said:


> Na....he's used to it by now. I was a smart *** when he hired me and by now he should be real clear about the fact I'm never going to hand him my HDS. He once dropped my fenix pd30 into a wall so I cut a 2 foot hole at the bottom to retrieve it and left it for him to patch....



Now that you mentioned that last part, it makes sense. Hell, just gift him something like a 2AA LED Mini-Mag. Then he'll only occasionally pester you for your light.


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## KeepingItLight (Sep 4, 2015)

GearHunter said:


> He should be real clear about the fact I'm never going to hand him my HDS.



You may have found the perfect way to get rid of one of you old junkers (if you still have any around). Curry favor and unload an obsolete light all at once.


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## GearHunter (Sep 4, 2015)

Monocrom said:


> Now that you mentioned that last part, it makes sense. Hell, just gift him something like a 2AA LED Mini-Mag. Then he'll only occasionally pester you for your light.




Really not a bad Idea at all!


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## GearHunter (Sep 4, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> You may have found the perfect way to get rid of one of you old junkers (if you still have any around). Curry favor and unload an obsolete light all at once.



i like the way you think!


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## Grizzman (Sep 12, 2015)

In my previous post, I considered stating that the AV installation crews that used to (8+ years ago) install equipment for my corporate projects always had some kind of light, and a couple rocked Surefires. They also used headlamps for use in dark racks and inside enclosed table bases. 

I now work for this AV company, and have been helping the crew with an executive boardroom project (aka top shelf crew). All five of them use their phone's LEDs as primary lights, including when looking 75+ feet for a cable path above suspended ceiling.

One of them was working above the ceiling in the room, climbed down the ladder stating he was going to need to get his light out of his toolbox. I was working next to him, so I removed the Malkoff MD2, with M61, from my front pocket and handed it to him. When he returned it to me, he said, "nice light". I'm certain he'll continue to use his phone, but he at least realized that dedicated lights can be useful.


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## insanefred (Sep 12, 2015)

Grizzman said:


> In my previous post, I considered stating that the AV installation crews that used to (8+ years ago) install equipment for my corporate projects always had some kind of light, and a couple rocked Surefires. They also used headlamps for use in dark racks and inside enclosed table bases.
> 
> I now work for this AV company, and have been helping the crew with an executive boardroom project (aka top shelf crew). All five of them use their phone's LEDs as primary lights, including when looking 75+ feet for a cable path above suspended ceiling.
> 
> One of them was working above the ceiling in the room, climbed down the ladder stating he was going to need to get his light out of his toolbox. I was working next to him, so I removed the Malkoff MD2, with M61, from my front pocket and handed it to him. When he returned it to me, he said, "nice light". I'm certain he'll continue to use his phone, but he at least realized that dedicated lights can be useful.



I may have some contractors come to my house soon. I might need my foundation looked at and get bids. If anyone of them uses their phone for a flashlight, I will straight up deem them not qualified.


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## Tac Gunner (Sep 20, 2015)

insanefred said:


> I may have some contractors come to my house soon. I might need my foundation looked at and get bids. If anyone of them uses their phone for a flashlight, I will straight up deem them not qualified.



I would do the same thing!

I was watching a couple guys in my class service the hydraulic reservoir on a Piper Navajo the other day and had to really bite my tongue with them when it came to lighting. They had the service panels off the nose that allow you to get to the reservoir and then the baggage door open on the front which also lets you get into the area where the reservoir is. They were standing one on each side of the plane looking through the service holes trying to see the sight glass on the reservoir which is in the dark and not viewable without an inspection mirror and light. I walked up with the intention of offering help because they looked confused but when I leaned into the baggage compartment I blocked what little light was coming into the area they were working. One of them yelled at me and said I needed to move because I was blocking their light, which if they had a flashlight like is on the required tool list they wouldn't have that problem but they don't think they are necessary, so being a smart alick I pulled on my light and said there, now you have light. The guy then had the nerve to tell me I wasn't shining my light in the right place because the sight glass was on the other side.


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## AVService (Sep 25, 2015)

Grizzman said:


> In my previous post, I considered stating that the AV installation crews that used to (8+ years ago) install equipment for my corporate projects always had some kind of light, and a couple rocked Surefires. They also used headlamps for use in dark racks and inside enclosed table bases.
> 
> I now work for this AV company, and have been helping the crew with an executive boardroom project (aka top shelf crew). All five of them use their phone's LEDs as primary lights, including when looking 75+ feet for a cable path above suspended ceiling.
> 
> One of them was working above the ceiling in the room, climbed down the ladder stating he was going to need to get his light out of his toolbox. I was working next to him, so I removed the Malkoff MD2, with M61, from my front pocket and handed it to him. When he returned it to me, he said, "nice light". I'm certain he'll continue to use his phone, but he at least realized that dedicated lights can be useful.


Blasphemy!

Well I think I almost makeup for that crew all by myself considering the number of lights I carry all the time.
Same area too,sort of?

I just do not get it at all?


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## LedTed (Jan 19, 2016)

Not to be narcissistic; couldn't find another similar thread. Had a furnace technician come to the house today. The guy brought his Stanley Satellite (300 lumen). He said it was the best Christmas gift he ever got himself. He used the flashlight, in different configurations, during the entire troubleshooting and repair process. I commended him on his choice and use.


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## FPSRelic (Jan 20, 2016)

I had an opposite result to the ones posted here. We had a maintenance tech show up wanting a backup of an old bms system that is slowly being made redundant, so he came to the it department for that. I noticed that he had a flashlight in a pouch on his belt. I asked him what it was, thinking it would be an led lenser at best. Turns out it was an Olight Striker of some sort. He said that phone lights just didn't cut it for him. Of course, I couldn't resist showing off my oveready triple e1e, he was amazed at the brightness and the size of the light, but was less impressed with the cost.


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## TKC (Jan 27, 2016)

*This is a really sad thread!! I am really, going to a job with out the proper tools?! *


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## Megatrowned (Jan 27, 2016)

As an electrician, who is often called to work in places _because _of a light related issue, I can't tell you how many people in the construction trades are incredibly poorly prepared this way. None of my coworkers carry a light on themselves. But at least they know where their Milwaukee tool rechargeable lights are. Personally, I carry a minimum of two lights on myself. 

Anyway, I ran across this video. It makes a great follow up to all the horror stories in thes thread!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-ViF6JRNjTk


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## Tac Gunner (Jan 27, 2016)

I like how this thread keeps getting brought back up instead of new a new thread being made.

Since the last time I posted in this thread there was a bad wreck on I-75 back in December which shut the interstate down for about 9 hours. They were redirecting traffic off of the interstate down onto the state highway for a detour. They had a light plant set up at the intersection of the off ramp and state highway, two police cruisers, and a fire department rescue truck there as well so you had plenty of warning, along with a 10 mile back up, to slow down. The thing was, the officers directing traffic had no more than some little flimsy looking traffic wands that looked like they came from the dollar store. You could hardly see the wands and they were the only lights the individual officers had on them. The wands were so dim it was hard to tell what signal they were giving and where they were standing. They light plant was facing the opposite direction I was coming from so there was no visible light on the officers either. 

Besides budget constraints, I have no idea why officers don't have better equipment in the lighting department. I have used a similar traffic wand when I was in police explorers and even with fresh cells an led maglite with a stick on wand was brighter. I wish I had the money to be able to hand each officer I see directing traffic with an under powered light a Fenix TK16, one battery and charger, and a matching traffic wand.


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## bykfixer (Jan 28, 2016)

I work construction on highways and many times that requires night work to destroy and replace items while traffic is reduced. In many cases I'm the head guy for traffic control. If not I'm an advisor. 

With that said there are Federal 'regulations' as to how to light up our surroundings without blinding motorists. There is an actual manual that spells it all out. 
See you go from darkness to daylight, back to darkness. And it is surprising how many work zones are improperly lit. Now I don't mean it broke rule 343.2 paragraph (g) 3rd sentence type of thing. I mean no thought of motorists is even considered.
With all those federally imposed brightness' of equipment, flashing lights, traffic shifting devices etc the motorists is inundated with blinding reflections and flashes as they pass through work zones. 

Last summer we needed police officers to halt motorists as they approached a well lit work zone. So I hopped in my truck and did a lap to see what typical motorists see. And sure enough the police officer was dang near invisible despite wearing reflectors. And his Strion with a white wand was also dang near invisible. 

Well I couldn't exactly dim the work lights. It takes millions of candle power to light up areas enough to perform the work. But could ensure proper difusers were in place and proper angles were achieved. All those flashing lights can also be strategically placed instead of just randomly located.

I loaned my Lux-Pro LP 470 light to the officer who set it for strobe. Worked like a charm at catching the attention of motorists. But thinking in terms of potential epileptics approaching that was not ideal. 

So what we do as a rule is set a vehicle near the officer with their hazard flashers aimed at their safety vests to catch the attention of motorists. 

Their typical flashlights provide good light for their duties where they turn darkness to daylight in their surroundings. But in a work zone no ordinary flashlight can compete with the typical light plant.

Now the regulations also require anybody involved with directing traffic be-it flagger or police officer be lit up by a minimum number of candela. But in hurried or short term situations that is not always practical. Hence a vehicle nearby with flashers lighting reflective clothing in an attention grabbing method.

With the typical police car having blinding flashing lights it creates more of a blinding scenario for approaching motorists and if the car is near the officer he/she is less safe than if the car is strategically located well before the motorist reaches the officer. And those less than bright front turn signal/hazard flashers do a great job of lighting the officer in an attention grabbing fashion.

The next night we had that scenario the officers and construction company met prior to the activities and set up a plan based on the success of the evening I spoke of. Now it is policy of that local jurisdiction to ensure officers are lit with non blinding flashing light.




^^ blinded by lights as one passes by.




^^ driver said he was blinded
Arrow points to where a fellow had just been standing.




^^ driver in cuffs for DWI


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## KDM (Jan 28, 2016)

I come prepared!


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## Tac Gunner (Jan 28, 2016)

Byfixer that is basically the same situation I am talking about. I understand there being regulations, the need for sufficient work area lighting, and also the lack of time in an emergency to strategically set up warning lights and traffic control but there are simple little things like what you mentioned to help. I very always wondered why officers don't keep some glow sticks in their vest pockets and when working traffic clip them to the back of their vests or the sides. With new little clip lights like the Fenix HL05 or CL05 IT wouldn't be anything to clip a few to their vest to increase visibility.

I still believe that for traffic control led strobes are way to bright and distracting to drivers. The old rotating lights worked well for providing warning without being extremely blinding. I understand the benefits of the leds for less maintenance, less power consumption (heck the rotating lights would drain a battery even if the vehicle was idiling), and they do stand out more but if the flash rates were slower I think it would be better. Anyway, back to the original topic.


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## bykfixer (Jan 28, 2016)

The feds regulate lots of things that work great on paper Tac.

Now, rotating lights you say? 
Man I loved those and prefered the side by side rectangle type. My company just required I use the LED type late last year...they insisted.

Problem is lights like that didn't provide enough alert to motorists in daytime useage and at times drew so much power that they'd actually catch fire at the plug. I had it happen twice so I direct wired mine to the battery and installed a toggle switch with a red bulb showing it was on.

And after 30+ years in my field I can honestly say that maybe 5 or less contractors actually considered the motorist when setting up work zones...and 0 police officers...Z-row!!

Not saying that to degrade anybody. Just stating it's not something most consider while performing their job. Everybody assumes that when you set it up by the book everything is groovy.

As I've aged and have the privaledge to pass on skills to the less experienced I insist that my 'students' review work zones from a motorists stand point _first_, then make a 2nd lap to check for regulation compliance.

There have been instances where I request the contractor cover certain items, turn off lights or adjust locations.
They argue that "the book says"...so I take them for a ride and in most cases they grant my request. 
Next day I notify my engineer what we did and why and fill out a report stating such to show the contractor that his 'non-compliance' was justified. 

See, in my field statistics show it's very, very dangerous. Yet the most over looked statistic is the motorist is the one in the most danger.
Yep...7 of 10 work zone fatalities according to statistics is motorist crashing into motorist either through lack of reaction time or by being blinded by the lighting...but....
Dead men tell no tales, so we never know our lights were the problem.


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## Tac Gunner (Jan 28, 2016)

We share the same thoughts byfixer. My dad was a volunteer firefighter for 23 years so I have been on scenes at night and understand what you are talking about. Vehicle lighting and safety lighting is a hobby of mine so I have followed along with the advancements in safety lighting. As you said though, what works on paper normally does not work in real life. I typically find lights either way to blinding and distracting or don't draw enough attention. As you said, during the day and during the night basically take two different set ups from my experience (which quite small compared to yours)


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## bykfixer (Jan 28, 2016)

The light my work issued is programable.

So in the daytime I keep it set in a typical blinking fashion where at night I set it to what I call the "eat at Joes" setting where it is more of a scroller than a blinker. Just as attention attracting, without being blinding.
Only trouble is, like many flashlights...there are way too many other settings to click through. It has 12 total.

Fire Fighters and Law Officers have their mind set on safely performing their duty while construction workers do as well. Yet when the duties mesh it's like when settlers met the Croatans...there is quite the language barrier. 
Each entity has their territory, so when _some construction worker_ is trying to explain to a police officer at an accident scene in the work zone that said officer is invisible to motorists sometimes there is a territorial dispute.

What I learned is to talk about the wife n kids, an upcoming sports event like the super bowl (or in summer, baseball)...and develop a common ground. Then I can slide in "by the way sir, cars cannot see you"... With recent subjects in their mind like Tuesdays soft ball game or paying little Johnnies upcoming tuition the last thing they want is to be hit by some sleepy guy...or worse. 

But gettings those propeller hat types to incorparate that onto the flat piece of paper? 
I haven't discovered how to do that yet. lol


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## Tac Gunner (Jan 28, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> The light my work issued is programable.
> 
> 
> So in the daytime I keep it set in a typical blinking fashion where at night I set it to what I call the "eat at Joes" setting where it is more of a scroller than a blinker. Just as attention attracting, without being blinding.
> ...


Great tips. 


I agree with the mode issue and would like to see a light unit that you could program the mode sequence or had a UI like Zebralight. Have your 3 most used modes instantly available. When I have installed units for people I always recommend the simplest unit.


There are some people who just do not understand real life until they experience it and I have found most who write regulations 
never really experience the results of what they write.


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## bykfixer (Jan 29, 2016)

Another issue is clothing.
Police officers are issued dark colored uniforms as a rule. Then issued a sleeveless safety vest...

I have to agree with the feds on this one; that contrasting sleeves and trousers are effective at causing the human to be identified more effectively day or night at a distance. 

To me that goes right with this thread in that a proffesional service technician (police in this case) show up without proper illumination device be-it a good flashlight and/or illumination devices. 

But in this case _they may not be allowed_ to carry proper devices due to uniform standards.


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## Tac Gunner (Jan 29, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Another issue is clothing.
> Police officers are issued dark colored uniforms as a rule. Then issued a sleeveless safety vest...
> 
> I have to agree with the feds on this one; that contrasting sleeves and trousers are effective at causing the human to be identified more effectively day or night at a distance.
> ...


So very true.

It's a shame that the looks of an officer more often than not dictate the equipment they can use. I agree officers should look professional and be a good role model for the department but in my opinion there comes a point when functionality has to be thought about. I'm not sure why some departments require officers to wear class A uniforms with startched pants, spit shined shoes and belt, and the smokey bear hat when the officer spends most of the time tromping through the rain, snow, mud, and who knows what else than walking down the side walk on a sunny day. Let the officers be comfortable and carry the equipment they are comfortable with and is effective.

Our sheriff department for years had been just khaki pants, back polo, with the option of either a duty belt or vest, and the officers choice of boots. They could carry their choice of sidearm, light, etc. When the new sheriff was elected he demanded class A uniforms all the time. We are a small rural county where the deputies do everything from serving warrants, working wrecks, to rounding up loose cattle.


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## bykfixer (Jan 29, 2016)

Yeah it's real important to have your shoes shined to a mirror finish when rounding up cattle.

Man, officers who work for elected bosses....the worst. 

My current project is re-vamping a city block in a 1 horse town. We've reached a point where benches, trash cans and street lights began to be installed...they had been decided on by a previous council.
Well the new council don't dig on the benches and the color of the brick paved sidewalks...working for elected people can be a pain. 

About once a month the project Superintendent enquires about my latest flashlights...
He's an avid raccon hunter who appreciates a good flashlight and is amazed at the output some of my lights give (in his words) "without a belt pack". lol. 

The local police in the 1 horse town dress like gistapo guys in sorta tactical looking black with real shiney knee high boots...like a horse mounted officer would wear.
A couple of times work progressed into darkness. At times we detour the Main drag around the block. And local police direct traffic. 
And after sundown the traffic directing officers refused to wear safety vests on a couple of occasions. "I don't need that crap" they say...
We were like "whatever dude, thinking his tombstone should read "I don't need no safety vest"...
They think their supplied incan Streamlight SL20's with a wand over the end is enough...and we don't argue with them.


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## Tac Gunner (Jan 29, 2016)

Nope there is no arguing, let them live and learn. I have seen so many first responders with inadequate lighting that it makes me cringe. 

I follow on Facebook some of the volunteer rescue teams that cover red river gorge. Every now and then they will post pics of rescues they have done (none of the actual patience, just the hike in and rigging) and when it is of night rescues it appears they rely solely on fox fury command helmet lights for their lighting needs. I would really like to be able to donate them a tk75 with the extended runtime kit along with batteries and two chargers.


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## bykfixer (Jan 30, 2016)

One night I needed a good flashlight. I mean a good one. Like need to see where the end of that overhead wire that just got ripped loose from the other end is. But I had an incan mini mag. It had served my purpose for years. That and a 3aaa headlamp that put out all of maybe 20 lumens. 

Next night I had a Coast HP7, and Energizer Hard Case 215 lumen 2aa, and a Lux-Pro 630. Next night I had a 2D mag LED Pro. A week later an HP7 rechargeable...and soon after I had joined CPF. Stopped counting at least 50 lights ago. lol

But anyway to my point. My company buys us 1 pair of disposable ear plugs a year. Yet I refuse to go deaf over a 50¢ item.
They buy me 1 safety vest a year. Yet I refuse to get hit by a car over a $12 item. 
In 17 years they've issued me 1 pair of really crappy safety glasses. I bought my own...Gargoyles...in a few different tints.

You just have to take matters into your own hands sometimes. 
If I were say a 23 year old police officer, fresh outta school raising young kids while barely able to make my house payment I'd still not rely on whatever woefully inadequate protective devices 'the man' sees fit to provide. Aint no way. 

Last summer I gave away at least 10 Lux-Pro flashlights, a few LED mini mags and several Coast HP1 lights to various people who were relying on the woefully inadequate lights they had. 

Not a single one complained of blue tint, artifacts or run time. lol.


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## Tac Gunner (Jan 31, 2016)

I'm the same way byfixer, there is no way I would let myself be ill equipped for a job that could kill you just because the department doesn't supply the proper and/or quality gear.

On another note, yesterday I talked to the HVAC tech I recommended a Fenix UC35 to. He says he absolutely loves the light and has recommended it to three other techs who have then bought one. He said since August he has charged it twice despite using it everyday, he did state he uses it primarily in the lower modes though. Glad to know that there are now at least four HVAC techs in my area who have plenty of light.


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## bykfixer (Jan 31, 2016)

Yeah the shadow lighter doesn't take much output in many cases. 

The guy I trust with my ac uses a Coast HP1.


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## srvctec (Jan 31, 2016)

Had an appliance tech come work on my 5 month old fridge (they just don't make stuff like they used to) under warranty a couple of times this month (still not fixed). I never saw him pull out a light while he was struggling to see the service diagram on the control unit of my fridge while he was working on it. I'm thinking to myself- seriously?! When he was leaving the last time he noticed my M3XS-UT Javelot and EagleTac SX25L3 hanging there and asked about them. Of course I had to show him the output of each and he was blown away. He asked what batteries they took and I took apart my Zebralight SC62w (more suited to his job) to show him the 18650 battery they all took. He said he loves flashlights but didn't seem to know what a good one really was. I told him on more than one occasion to check out CPF and read up and learn all he could. Hopefully he'll gain some insight and get some good lights for his job. 

If he is the same tech that comes out again, I'll discuss lights with him again in more detail and see if he's checked out CPF yet.


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## Tac Gunner (Jan 31, 2016)

srvctec said:


> Had an appliance tech come work on my 5 month old fridge (they just don't make stuff like they used to) under warranty a couple of times this month (still not fixed). I never saw him pull out a light while he was struggling to see the service diagram on the control unit of my fridge while he was working on it. I'm thinking to myself- seriously?! When he was leaving the last time he noticed my M3XS-UT Javelot and EagleTac SX25L3 hanging there and asked about them. Of course I had to show him the output of each and he was blown away. He asked what batteries they took and I took apart my Zebralight SC62w (more suited to his job) to show him the 18650 battery they all took. He said he loves flashlights but didn't seem to know what a good one really was. I told him on more than one occasion to check out CPF and read up and learn all he could. Hopefully he'll gain some insight and get some good lights for his job.
> 
> If he is the same tech that comes out again, I'll discuss lights with him again in more detail and see if he's checked out CPF yet.


Sounds like a service tech that has a bright future (pun intended lol). I have learned it usually does no good to step in and offer a light or advice unless the person shows an interstate to begin with. Now if they have a light and are complaining about it or don't have a light at all and are complaining then I will speak up and try to talk to them because usually those people will take a step towards better lights.


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## davyro (Jan 31, 2016)

I work in construction & I'm currently working night shift at the biggest indoor shopping centre in Europe, building a new mall.We can't start working on the mall until the public are cleared from the area,
I've had to use one of my lights every single shift on numerous occasions.It has to be a neutral to warm light so I can see the finish to the plastered ceilings & walls as best as possible as you can bet
someone like the project manager who only works day shift is always looking for any faults in the natural light of daytime.I work with one other person & I've been educating him about LED lights &
tints.Sure enough he can't do the job without one,so he has invested in a light,true to form he went for a decent thrower,which is obviously no good for the job.He has just ordered his first EDC light,
thank the lord he won't be asking for a lend of one mine.:twothumbs


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## AVService (Feb 1, 2016)

I have gone as far as giving people that I have to work with a light so I at least know that they will have light and not need to "Borrow" mine when we are together and in the dark but to my surprise this does not even work every time either?!?!?
They either forget the light at home or the batteries die and they can not replace them?
I get them AA lights just for this reason and our jobs depend on us being able to SEE to get things done but they still can not carry a light and pull out the cell phone!
It was funny at first but now it is not.

One guy uses a bic lighter?

Some people are just oblivious to practical solutions to day to day problems and these are people I try to stay away from once I know this.

Just can not make sense out of things that do not make sense.


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## Tac Gunner (Feb 1, 2016)

AVService said:


> I have gone as far as giving people that I have to work with a light so I at least know that they will have light and not need to "Borrow" mine when we are together and in the dark but to my surprise this does not even work every time either?!?!?
> They either forget the light at home or the batteries die and they can not replace them?
> I get them AA lights just for this reason and our jobs depend on us being able to SEE to get things done but they still can not carry a light and pull out the cell phone!
> It was funny at first but now it is not.
> ...


I'm right there with ya. 

A friend of mine works production maintenance at a large factory and he refuses to get even a cheap light. I've tried and tried to get him to even get a nitecore tube but he says he has other more important priorities and that since his iPhone has a light he doesn't need a flashlight. I have gone through every reason I know of why to carry a separate light and not use your phone but it does no good. I myself wouldn't want to be using my phone, which in my case I still have a flip phone so I don't have a phone light, around machines that wouldn't even hiccup if you accidently dropped it.


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## bykfixer (Feb 1, 2016)

Ima a former Bic lighter user...
Had I not discovered a microstream would probably still be...
Cause as a smoker I typically have a lighter handy. Nowadays a microstream as well.


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## AVService (Feb 1, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Ima a former Bic lighter user...
> Had I not discovered a microstream would probably still be...
> Cause as a smoker I typically have a lighter handy. Nowadays a microstream as well.


Now that is funny!
Thanks


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## bykfixer (Feb 1, 2016)

^^ stranger on the street says 'hey buddy, got a light?'..I hand 'em the microstream...
Buh-dum-shpeee


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## LedTed (Jul 5, 2016)

Late last week, an installer showed up to work and was wearing a headlamp. I complemented him on his lighting choice and asked him about his headlamp. As the lamp was a gift, he didn't know much about it.

2 X AA, Black strap, Yellow Body, Black bezel / control ring for infinitely variable brightness.

Can anybody identify the headlamp?


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## mdtahseen.usa (Jul 5, 2016)

The last administration/establishment tech to visit my home was from Google. He might be exceedingly well informed, however his light of decision was his telephone.


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## Bicycleflyer (Jul 6, 2016)

I think it's just a sign of the times. For example, how many young people do you see wearing a wrist watch these days. They don't see the point as their phone has a clock that not only keeps accurate time, but resets itself when you cross time zones or when DST rolls around. I have even been challenged as to why I bother to wear one... It's no surprise that they have taken the same approach to flashlights. If it wasn't for the FARs and our ops manual requiring each crew member to have a working flashlight, I don't think some of my younger copilots would even bother to have one. 

But I did get a chance to prove a point a while back... A friend of mine wanted to know what was rustling in the trees behind our cabin, I told him to grab his phone and go look. His answer was F that!! I ain't getting that close. I simply pulled out one of my lights and lit the area up from about 100 ft away... It was a raccoon.


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## bykfixer (Jul 6, 2016)

Bicycleflyer said:


> But I did get a chance to prove a point a while back... A friend of mine wanted to know what was rustling in the trees behind our cabin, I told him to grab his phone and go look. His answer was F that!! I ain't getting that close. I simply pulled out one of my lights and lit the area up from about 100 ft away... It was a raccoon.



That was EPIC!!! Ryt On!!!


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## blah9 (Jul 6, 2016)

Haha awesome! Yeah I think the main reason for a watch for me would be longevity since it doesn't need to be charged often. However I still don't wear one hardly ever. Definitely carry a flashlight though haha!


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