# Mounting 6" Bison set-tru on HF 8x12 lathe ...



## wquiles (Apr 20, 2008)

Instead of keep posting on Brian's thread about his new Bison chuck, I am creating a new thread to show the "slow" process of getting my 6" Bison set-tru chuck mounted on my Harbor Freight 8x12 (actually 8x14) lathe. Here is Brian's thread where you can see our brand new chucks!:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=192780

As a noted before, CPF member "*dstutts*" was generous enough to "donate" some raw al for this project - thanks again dude :twothumbs

Here is the new Bison chuck on top of the plate - I still have about 1/8" on each side of the chuck, so plenty of size to match the chuck's dia:






The plates are about 1.0" thick, should should be perfect for this project. About half of this thickness will be inside the rear of the chuck (for the set-tru feature), and the other half will be bolted to the spindle on one side and to the chuck on the other:





I started tonight shaping one of the plates. I first placed the new chuck on the Al plate and traced the chuks' dia. I traced it on the "outside" so even if I cut thru the scribe mark, the dia would still barely be larger than the chuck's dia:











I then proceeded to cut the corners to make it smaller so that I can actually mount it on the lathe, otherwise the plate would hit the ways - it took me like 4-5 minutes per corner:











I then proceeded to find the center of the circle:
















Then I am using my laser pointer in my mini mill to perfectly center the plate:
















Then I drilled a pilot hole with a center drill:
















And that is how far I got today. I plan on working on the side of the plate that mates with the spindle first, then work on the side that mates to the chuck.

More to come later ...

Will




EDIT 5/27/08: So that you don't have to go through pages of photos, I am done with the Al version of the mounting plate, and this is how the chuck looks mounted on the Al plate. I am still going to work on a cast iron plate later on. Look at the OEM 4" chuck just for comparison:










Here is a 3D Mag for scale (you should not have that much outside the chuck unsupported!):


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## Mirage_Man (Apr 20, 2008)

Sweet! I'm subscribed. I can't wait to see how this works for you. I know you're gonna like the chuck the first time you use it.


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## ICUDoc (Apr 20, 2008)

Looks great wquiles- I wait for the next instalment with interest. I think your mill is the same as mine- lots of fun and learning ALL the time!!


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## TranquillityBase (Apr 20, 2008)

Dude, your DIY threads are the best!

I can't wait to see the completed lathe.

Thanks for sharing,
TB

EDIT: Nice SPI chuck on your mill:thumbsup:


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## PEU (Apr 20, 2008)

Nice work indeed, but I have my concerns about the durability of the aluminium mounting plate. 
You used Alu for a particular reason?


Pablo


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## wquiles (Apr 20, 2008)

Thank you guys. I normally post when I am done, but this time I will be posting as I work on it 




TranquillityBase said:


> EDIT: Nice SPI chuck on your mill:thumbsup:


Yep, after I used the built-in chuck on the mini mill I was not very happy with the lack of smoothness, plus it had a small amount of runout - not much, but it bothered me a lot. This SPI runs true, and it is ultra smooth :thumbsup:




PEU said:


> Nice work indeed, but I have my concerns about the durability of the aluminium mounting plate.
> You used Alu for a particular reason?


Alu was used just for convenience (this piece happens to be a high-grade 6061 used in the avionics industry). In terms of durability, please tell me more about what to look for - how can I tell while using it that this plate would not last?

Will


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## will (Apr 20, 2008)

The durability would be more of an issue if you are taking the chuck off and on frequently. On my lathe I remove the chuck every now and then. Mounting it on the center of the spindle, if it were aluminum might start to 'ding' the raised areas of the plate. The chuck is harder and will be fine, the aluminum is softer and has the potential to get banged up. I suspect you will mount this and it will stay on permanently. If that is the case, Aluminum is fine.

We used to use machinist blue to do rough layouts on aluminum sheet material. It makes the scribed lines more visible. We also used wigglers and edge finders to locate points on the milling machine.


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## Anglepoise (Apr 20, 2008)

Can not offer too much here as I am not familiar with the spindle on your lathe, but try and keep the overhang to an absolute minimum. This is a very heavy chuck for a light lathe and reduced overhang will help the headstock bearings live a long and productive life


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## PEU (Apr 20, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Alu was used just for convenience (this piece happens to be a high-grade 6061 used in the avionics industry). In terms of durability, please tell me more about what to look for - how can I tell while using it that this plate would not last?
> 
> Will



I guess 4140 steel would do the trick, since its not difficult to machine and then you can heat treat it. 
You can try your alu plate and keep this suggestion just in case 


Pablo


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## wquiles (Apr 20, 2008)

Cool - I understand now what you mean by durability 


I got some more work done today (Sunday). I made the hole all the way through the plate, and made it bigger, one step at a time until 3/8":











I then started to bore the "pocket" that lines up with the shoulder in the spindle:











I used the stop in the mini mill to know when the right depth was reached (0.120"):











I kept the caliper handy so that I knew when to start making smaller cuts:






The target dia=2.833" - I stopped when the dial was around 2.831 and 1/2 or so:






When I tried it on the spindle, I was just 1/2 to 1 mil undersized - which is what I was hoping for:
















I then used a diamond file and within a few minutes had it going all the way in for a presure-fit (of course, my friend the rubber mallet helped!):











Now I have to mark the 3 holes as precisely as I can so that I can drill and tap them, hopefully using the same 3 screws that came with the smaller 4" chuck:






Then again, although I don't have much room behind the spindle, I could use new, stronger, and slightly longer screws as well since the new chuck is "very" heavy compared to the OEM 4" chuck: ideas/recomendations here?

Will


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## will (Apr 20, 2008)

There is a whole art to using metal files. The one caution, using them on a lathe, make sure you have a plastic handle on the end. If it ever catches, it can become a deadly instrument. the handle prevents it from being a 'spear' 

I have 2 next to my lathe at all times, one triangle for deburring, and a flat file to get that last tenth smaller. 

Will the size of the new chuck, much larger, have any effect on the motor?


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## wquiles (Apr 20, 2008)

will said:


> There is a whole art to using metal files. The one caution, using them on a lathe, make sure you have a plastic handle on the end. If it ever catches, it can become a deadly instrument. the handle prevents it from being a 'spear'
> 
> I have 2 next to my lathe at all times, one triangle for deburring, and a flat file to get that last tenth smaller.
> 
> Will the size of the new chuck, much larger, have any effect on the motor?



As always, thanks much for the safety tips :twothumbs

The original motor was "suposed" to be something like a HP, but we all know that in these chinese machines the motor was not nearly a real HP motor. The one I have is a top quality/brand "real" two HP motor, and I have power resistors to set the controler to 1/2, 1, and 1.5 HP, so the new much larger/heavier chuck "shouldn't" be a significant problem. Right now I have the 1/2 HP resistor in place just to get things moving, so I will experiment with several values once I have the new chuck mounted. I will report on how the weight/size affects the HF lathe 

Wil


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## dstutts (Apr 20, 2008)

Are the original socket head cap screws metric, or fine, or course thread? check them with your new chuck. You can get them at about any larger hardware store.


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2008)

The spindle holes are not threaded - these bolts thread on the OEM/small chuck. I am almost certain they are metric, but since I will have to thread the Al plate for these, I can use anything "good" I guess. I will go to the hardware store with one of them to get something as good or better 

The question is: what would be the best way to get those holes marked on the back of the mounting plate given that I have so little room to do anything?

Will


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## Anglepoise (Apr 21, 2008)

wquiles said:


> The question is: what would be the best way to get those holes marked on the back of the mounting plate given that I have so little room to do anything?
> 
> Will



Coat the back of the mounting plate with chalk.
Then fit it to the spindle flange and tap all around with a soft faced hammer.
Then carefully remove the mounting plate and you will have the three holes outlined perfectly. Spotface, drill and tap.
Good luck....


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## will (Apr 21, 2008)

OR

Can you pick up the hole locations from the old chuck. ? 

OK - old school - Piece of paper and a pencil, do a rubbing of the back of the chuck. transfer this to the new adapter. The new threaded holes don't have to be exact, there should be some leeway in their location. 

If you have a rotary table for the mill. you can measure all this.


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2008)

Anglepoise said:


> Coat the back of the mounting plate with chalk.
> Then fit it to the spindle flange and tap all around with a soft faced hammer.
> Then carefully remove the mounting plate and you will have the three holes outlined perfectly. Spotface, drill and tap.
> Good luck....



Newbe question: I can handle the drill and tap, but what exactly is to "Spotface"?

Will


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## Anglepoise (Apr 21, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Newbe question: I can handle the drill and tap, but what exactly is to "Spotface"?
> 
> Will



Sorry...my slang. Use a centerdrill to mark the perfect center of the chalk outline before drilling through.


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## VanIsleDSM (Apr 22, 2008)

It's aluminum, so it's soft, why not just cut one of the ends of the old screws in the shape of a transfer punch (or a piece of steel turned to the same diameter would be more precise) and then a thin block of wood up against the lathe to protect it.. slip screw in the hole up against the aluminum and give a little pry with a screw driver, that should leave you a good center mark for the holes... another idea anyway.

Awesome thread by the way.. I've owned my 7x14 Micro Mark for about a month now. I really like to see the methods other people use to make things, gives me lots of ideas.. like the cutter you have on the mill there, I don't have a mill yet, but I just thought about how easy it would be to use something similar to cut perfect circles for PCB boards or whatever else.. After getting the lathe sure didn't take me long to realize that I need a mill too... soon enough.

Good luck! looking forward to more updates and pics.


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## modamag (Apr 22, 2008)

will, why aluminum not steel adapter plate since you're going thru the trouble already?
I'm just afraid of all the flexing.


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## will (Apr 22, 2008)

I'm not an expert in metals and their flexibility. Just a couple of thoughts
1. this is a 1 inch thick piece of aluminum - 6 inches across - How much flex is there in that?
2. it attaches to a 4 inch spindle, the spindle is not going to flex, that leaves 1 inch all around
3. the other side attaches to the back of the chuck - 6 inches across, the chuck is not going to flex. 

I would be more concerned about mounting and dismounting the chuck on an aluminum plate, the aluminum is going to get banged up.


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## lotsaluck (Apr 22, 2008)

Wow, only just found this thread but using an aluminum mounting plate is certainly not optimum and frankly dangerous. Your effort is worthy but I would like you to rethink your material choice before you get hurt when you least expect it. You intend on mounting an oversize chuck on a "less than quality" lathe known for not running true with an aluminum backplate. Using that after install will be Russian Roulette. Once up to speed any tool that sticks or a parting blade that catches can cause a real nasty chain of events from the out of balance condition that the aluminum just can't isolate. The out of balance can amplify itself to the failure point in the blink of an eye. I've personally seen an 8" chuck leave a spindle at 3K rpm's in my shop and you do not want to be anywhere near it. 

Please reconsider....


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## will (Apr 22, 2008)

lotsaluck said:


> I've personally seen an 8" chuck leave a spindle at 3K rpm's in my shop and you do not want to be anywhere near it.
> 
> Please reconsider....



Out of curiosity - what caused that failure?


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## lotsaluck (Apr 22, 2008)

14 x 48 Takisawa (pretty good iron) with a stock cast iron backplate parting off 1.5" 6061 T6.51 stock to 2.00" lengths after grooving for rope sheaves. Coolant line clogged causing the parting blade to gawl with aluminum and the whole works went to H&^L in the blink of an eye. The backplate sheared at the reduction taper point, the chuck and 2' of 6061 took a few round trips around the shop (and wifes jeep) before stopping. The parting tool made a trip straight up (lucky for me) through the drywall ceiling, nicked a truss and continues right through the plywood and shingle roof into never never land as far as I know. If you live through it you will be very impressed by the whole "mass in motion" principle. There are reasons machine tools are not made of aluminum. They are valid!


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## will (Apr 22, 2008)

I once broke a parting tool in aluminum. It took a 3 wall bounce before it landed on the floor. No injuries or damage. I never stand in line with a parting tool, always to the right, using my left hand on the handle. 

With a small lathe - I would think the motor would stop before a chuck would shear off. My mini lathe motor just doesn't have the power. I have had a few jams, nothing broke, the motor just stopped.


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## wquiles (Apr 22, 2008)

lotsaluck said:


> Wow, only just found this thread but using an aluminum mounting plate is certainly not optimum and frankly dangerous. Your effort is worthy but I would like you to rethink your material choice before you get hurt when you least expect it. You intend on mounting an oversize chuck on a "less than quality" lathe known for not running true with an aluminum backplate. Using that after install will be Russian Roulette. Once up to speed any tool that sticks or a parting blade that catches can cause a real nasty chain of events from the out of balance condition that the aluminum just can't isolate. The out of balance can amplify itself to the failure point in the blink of an eye. I've personally seen an 8" chuck leave a spindle at 3K rpm's in my shop and you do not want to be anywhere near it.
> 
> Please reconsider....



I definitely want to learn more about this. I did some research on the HF 8x12 before I bought it, but did not recall anything about the machine not running true nor problems with an Al backplate. Can you please share more on this?

Will


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## lotsaluck (Apr 22, 2008)

I started off using a HF lathe very similar and "forced" it to do some impressive jobs. That was a long time ago and I've learned from those mistakes. You still get pretty much what you pay for in life and the price of the HF lathes should tell a lot. I put a larger chuck on the one I had, I then had to replace the head bearings as well as most bolts and the motor. Any mods you do to it better be as good or better quality than stock. I'm pretty sure it was not designed to turn a 6" chuck with part up to speed and as it was barely designed to handle the 4" chuck supplied with it the 6" is vastly heavier than designed, so a marginal mounting is in my opinion pretty dangerous. If everything you run on it is concentric and balanced you should get by as long as you remember the substandard mounting and allow for it, but what happens when one day you or the person you sell it to decided to do some offset turning or an out of balance part is chucked up while the speed is cranked? My point is that there are just to many variables that are likely to happen to cut corners on mounting the most dangerous part of the lathe.

I'll put the soap box away...


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## wquiles (Apr 22, 2008)

lotsaluck,

Gotcha - I get it now what you were trying to warn me in your initial post. Thanks much for sharing your own past experiences with the HF machines. I also admit that I have been worried about the how heavy the 6" Bison chuck is - much more than the standard 4" that comes with the lathe.

Given this new imformation/feedback, what I am going to do is:
1) Finish the plate in Al. Mostly becuase I am learning a lot by simply doing a mounting plate from scratch, and also since this Al plate will have the correct size/holes so making the one from steel will be much easier. This will not be the permanent mounting plate for my Bison chuck.

2) Find some source of a cast iron/steel blank plate that I can machine to make a permanent mounting plate for my chuck. I will of course use the Al plate as a guide/template. 


EDIT: Looks like something like this would be a good one to start with, right?
http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/13919/nm/Rough_Casting_Back_Plate


Thanks again,
Will


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## lotsaluck (Apr 23, 2008)

You will be much happier with that back plate and you'll also find turning cast to be very easy, some think it's easier than 6061. Good choice.


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## will (Apr 23, 2008)

There was a post here a few weeks back about turning cast or steel. Make sure you don't get any chips in your pockets. Washing the clothes will cause the metal to rust, if you have any light color, you will end up with some nice rust spots in the bottoms of the pockets.

How is that for something completely different.. The dumb things you learn in life


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## wquiles (Apr 23, 2008)

lotsaluck said:


> You will be much happier with that back plate and you'll also find turning cast to be very easy, some think it's easier than 6061. Good choice.



Already ordered it 





will said:


> There was a post here a few weeks back about turning cast or steel. Make sure you don't get any chips in your pockets. Washing the clothes will cause the metal to rust, if you have any light color, you will end up with some nice rust spots in the bottoms of the pockets.
> 
> How is that for something completely different.. The dumb things you learn in life


I seem to also recall a post like that about a year and 1/2 ago. Definitely something to keep in mind to keep the wife happy 


Will


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## lotsaluck (Apr 23, 2008)

Drop a couple of neo magnets into the pockets if its a concern just remember to remove them before the wife gets it. LOL


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## ICUDoc (Apr 23, 2008)

I wear an apron while in the workshop. It saves having to get changed often and still protects whatever I am wearing from chips or (more commonly) grease / oil / heatsink compound / glue off my fingers.


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## wquiles (Apr 24, 2008)

OK, I got more work done last night!

I took a long screw I had:







And used it to turn a short piece of it into a sharp pointer like somebody here suggested:











Of course the dia is almost exactly the hole dia in the spindle:











I then mounted (pressed it in) the plate in the spindle:






and using a flat metal piece I pressed the new "pin" into each of the holes. Although these are not really deep impressions, they turned out great:











I can then use my mini-mill and laser pointer to accurately drill and tap those holes 

Will


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## VanIsleDSM (Apr 24, 2008)

Excellent, I'm glad that I could help, and more importantly that it worked!


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## gadget_lover (Apr 24, 2008)

A couple more items about turning the cast iron...

I seem to recall that cast iron is dirty. I did not use a mask and was making black kleenex for a day or two.

Make sure you use proper tapping techniques. If you tap the holes at any angle at all you might find the screws won't fit.  

Daniel


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## wquiles (Apr 24, 2008)

VanIsleDSM said:


> Excellent, I'm glad that I could help, and more importantly that it worked!


Yep, that sure helped!




gadget_lover said:


> A couple more items about turning the cast iron...
> 
> I seem to recall that cast iron is dirty. I did not use a mask and was making black kleenex for a day or two.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads-up on the "dirt" 

For tapping, I am starting the tap on my mini-mill to ensure perfect alignment (not under power, but manually), and then I finish by hand 

I am going tomorrow to buy some good, high grade screws :naughty:

Will


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## KC2IXE (Apr 25, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Thanks for the heads-up on the "dirt"



Cast Iron has to be some of the nastiest 'dirt wise' to turn - even though CI turns real well dry, I like to use flood cooling - to keep the black dust down

BTW clean up WELL after turning CI - the "dust" is abrasive

(The only dirtier stuff I've turned is Graphite - talk about a MESS)


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## PEU (Apr 25, 2008)

to collect iron particles I use a powerful neodymium magnet inside a plastic bag. When you need to throw the dirt apart, remove the magnet from the bag and the dirt falls into your garbage bin right away  

Old hard drives are a good source of these kind of magnets if you don' t have one handy.


Pablo


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## wquiles (Apr 26, 2008)

OK, so I got some grade 8, 3/8-16 x 3/4" bolts for my chuck plate. As you can see the new bolt is much more substantial than the OEM bolt:






In fact I had to barely enlarge the hole in the spindle a few mils for the new bolt to clear - a reasonable compromise given the extra weight of the new chuck. However, the knurling made the head's outside dia a few mils too large:






So I had to turn them a few mils (I am using my smaller 7x12 lathe):






Here is the finished bolt on the far right:






And of course, it now fits as it should:











Which set of bolts would you use? :devil:






Look at how much longer and how deep it will be able to thread into the chuck's mounting plate:











So I then threaded the plate at the 3 places marked earlier:











Use the mini-mill to start the thread (manually) and then finish by hand:











These were the bolts I got:






and the drill and tap I used:






Hopefully I will get to work on this some more this weekend 

Will


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## gadget_lover (Apr 26, 2008)

It's looking real nice.

Since the shoulder supports the chuck, don't the screws mainly keep it from spinning? If that's true, do bigger screws make a difference?

I never thought of turning down screw heads till I got comfortable with my lathe. I've found myself doing it several times in the last year or two, most recently last week. It saved me the $1.50 that it would have cost for the proper dashboard screw from the auto dealer.

Daniel


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## wquiles (Apr 26, 2008)

gadget_lover said:


> Since the shoulder supports the chuck, don't the screws mainly keep it from spinning? If that's true, do bigger screws make a difference?



Possibly. But since the center of mass of the chuck is not at the spindle, but away from the spindle. Besides the weight that the shoulder supports, there is a "lot" more weight hanging out, away from the spindle - the bigger bolts will be less likely to shear given the extra weight 

Will


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## will (Apr 26, 2008)

The shoulder is a locater hub, meant to keep the chuck centered. How deep are the recesses for the cap screws, or, how thick is the shoulder they rest on? My mini lathe has the the holes in the spindle and it uses a nut on the end to attach. That way the full thickness of the spindle is used to hold the the chuck on.


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## wquiles (May 1, 2008)

Well guys, a significant milestone on my new lathe just happened: I actually made some chips on the new machine!!!

I actually had to assemble the lathe, which was all in pieces in that bench, which gave me a great opportunity to check and adjust everything to my liking. I am not quite done (plus I do want to do some minor lapping soon), but everything works. I must say (now that I have this running), that this machine is certainly in a different league than my 7x12. Everything is so much bigger, stiffer, stronger, more rigid - it feels more like a real lathe (no offense to the 7x12, as I still use mine!). 
With the controller set for just 1/2HP I was able to stall the motor by bitting too hard on the cutting tooll, so I will be moving to the 1HP resistor soon.

I am also using the wedge tool post - it is freaking awesome how much stronger and stiffer it is compared to the one in my 7x12. Here are both tool holders next to each other - simply amazing:












OK, enough about new tool porn ...

Here is the aluminum plate, not quite "round" yet. Note that in order to cut the outer dia I had to mount the cutting tool in an unorthodox position - man this plate is big!. In these picture I already have been cutting for a while:
















Here I am almost done in getting it round, but I still need to bring it down to the right dia (note that the face of the plate is not yet smooth):











Here I (except for the outer dia), the plate is almost ready for me to start cutting the inner shoulder for the chuck:
















It feels "great" to actually/finally be cutting metal with the new lathe :twothumbs

Will

PS. I received this week the cast iron "rough" mounting plate which I am planing to use as my permanent mounting plate - I will take a pic of that soon


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## Mirage_Man (May 1, 2008)

Cool! Glad to see you getting to make some chips! 

P.S. I pity anyone with dial-up looking at your threads.


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## lotsaluck (May 1, 2008)

You should check on whats loose and try to stop that chatter going on. Could be many things but most likely on the HF lathe its a loose mount or bearing preload.


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## wquiles (May 1, 2008)

lotsaluck said:


> You should check on whats loose and try to stop that chatter going on. Could be many things but most likely on the HF lathe its a loose mount or bearing preload.



I certainly will. That bench that I am using is super strong, but not as firm as I would like. I will be moving this late to the bench where I have the smaller 7x12 lathe - that bench is more sturdy and firm.

I also had some vibration from the way I was tensioning the belt in the pulleys, and I adjusted that today as well - it also runs quieter now 

Will


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## wquiles (May 4, 2008)

Well, I got more work done.

I am boring the hole larger for the adapter plate to match the hole in the chuck:






and I am using this "fancy" stop for the depth:






here I am done with the boring. I did cut the face of the spindle a little, but no harm done:






I then started to cut the portion of the plate that will go inside the chuck for the chuck's set-tru feature to work:






and to prove that I am using what I am learning here, I am using some "strategicaly" placed cardboard (pizza box) to help with the flying chips:






As you can imagine removing this much metal, I had "tons" of chips - I did not count them but I think I had 5 or 6 baskets of it!:






here I am slowly making progress on that shoulder - here with a taper, but later on I will take care of this:






getting closer:






and I got close enough that I am starting to touch the very tip of the screws:






I will stop now, shorten the screws just a bit, and then re-mount and finish the mounting plate later:
















Here is a dry mount of the new Bison chuck (of course not bolted or anything, just trying it out):











Once I get the mounting plate finished, it looks like I will have full length engagement with the chuck screws:






Here is a family photo. You can see on the left the original plate, the almost finished mounting plate, and the new cast iron plate (I have not started work on it yet):






This photo gives you an idea of the amount of metal I will have to remove in the cast iron mounting plate:






Will


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## ICUDoc (May 4, 2008)

Wow big time work on that cast iron to come. One day I'll be brave enough to remove my 3 jaw and try a four (which I own). MMMM, but I'd like to try a 6......


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## gadget_lover (May 4, 2008)

Oh goody! A second chance to contribute to this thread!

While you may be tempted to try to part off or face off the nose of the new plate, I suggest that you use your power bandsaw to trim it close to the final size, then use a facing cut to finish it off. I tried to use the lathe to shorten mine (facing it) and realized that's a lot of metal to remove a little at a time. 

Daniel


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## gadget_lover (May 4, 2008)

ICUDoc said:


> Wow big time work on that cast iron to come. One day I'll be brave enough to remove my 3 jaw and try a four (which I own). MMMM, but I'd like to try a 6......



Don't be afraid. I use mine more than the 3 jaw. There's a thread here on how to adjust the 4 independent jaw chuck fairly fast. I can usually take less than a minute to get it under .001.


Daniel


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## ICUDoc (May 5, 2008)

I saw that thread thanks gadgetlover- otherwise I would never have considered it....
I might go read it again now.

BTW wquiles is your lathe stand BOLTED to the ground? Do you think it's necessary?
I am considering this.
Thanks for the tool pr0n. Love the closeups of the lathe work/working.


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## will (May 5, 2008)

I did not work a lot with cast iron, but , I seem to remember that you can't take small cuts to get to the final size. Cuts under .005 scuffed, rather than cut. For any close tolerance we would send it out to be ground down. 

I seem to remember that .010 inch was the smallest we would take.


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## Anglepoise (May 6, 2008)

Depending on your time and budget, it might be worth considering getting a machine shop to turn your adapter to size plus 10 thou and then you finish off the final cut or two. 

If that is not workable, wait till a weekend and make sure you have sharp tools and lots of patience as you will have to take VERY small cuts to keep chatter under control and not stall the motor or spin belts.

And remember that once chatter starts, it can be a ***** to get rid off later on. Rubber wrapped around any dimension that is not being turned will help.
Even black insulating tape built up to 1/2" thickness can dampen out allot of the vibration at the cutter.
Good luck


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## Mirage_Man (May 18, 2008)




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## cmacclel (May 18, 2008)

lotsaluck said:


> 14 x 48 Takisawa (pretty good iron) with a stock cast iron backplate parting off 1.5" 6061 T6.51 stock to 2.00" lengths after grooving for rope sheaves. Coolant line clogged causing the parting blade to gawl with aluminum and the whole works went to H&^L in the blink of an eye. The backplate sheared at the reduction taper point, the chuck and 2' of 6061 took a few round trips around the shop (and wifes jeep) before stopping. The parting tool made a trip straight up (lucky for me) through the drywall ceiling, nicked a truss and continues right through the plywood and shingle roof into never never land as far as I know. If you live through it you will be very impressed by the whole "mass in motion" principle. There are reasons machine tools are not made of aluminum. They are valid!


 
That was a joke right? Backplate shearing from a piece of aluminum? Parting blade through a ceiling then through plywood and then shingles 

What size was the parting blade? 4"  I have broken 2 parting blades and they went straight down.

No offense if you where serious.

Will nice jobe as always!

Mac


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## lotsaluck (May 20, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> That was a joke right? Backplate shearing from a piece of aluminum? Parting blade through a ceiling then through plywood and then shingles
> 
> What size was the parting blade? 4"  I have broken 2 parting blades and they went straight down.
> 
> ...



No joke! In hindsight my speed was to high for the job but I'd done around 100 parts thus far and was feeling comfortable with it until that happened. Parting still scares the crud out of me and mostly I cold saw, then face to this day. The parting blade was about 6" long and just enough exposed to make the cut.


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## wquiles (May 20, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


>



I have some new photos, but I have not uploaded them yet - I have been traveling a little lately, but I am now ready to make the final drill/tap operation to actually mount the chuck to the plate - I am almost done 

Will


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## will (May 20, 2008)

I broke a parting tool cutting some stainless. It initially went down to the carriage, bounced from there, into a wall, bounced from there into the ceiling. To this day, I do not stand in front of the carriage. The best way to describe it - like a shot out of a gun, the piece flew that fast..


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## wquiles (May 20, 2008)

I worked some more on the project recently ...

Here I am transfering the spindle mounting holes to the new cast iron plate:

















and here I am transfering the locations of the chuck's mounting bolts to the Al plate:






I did them twice and selected the "set" that was most concentric:











And here I am getting ready to drill and tap for the chuck's mounting screws. I have to wait until this coming weekend when I will be able to buy the tap for this metric bolt (Grade 8, M12 I think):






Will


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## wquiles (May 23, 2008)

Well, I am done with the Al temporary plate. I got it down to about 0.0008-0.0009 run-out: I think that as *Modamag* had mentioned some time ago, it is a bit&*$ to adjust those radial screws 

Like *lotsaluck* mentioned earlier, even while the run-out is very low, you can feel a little bit the weight of the chuck at max speeds, so the chuck itself is not perfectly balanced. You can't feel a thing at low speeds. The other good news is that with the 1 and 1/2 HP resistor that I have in there, my 220Volt, 2HP motor/controller can "easily" move the chuck - no problem whatsoever :thumbsup:

I will post some pics later this afternoon - I am hungry so I am having lunch first 

Will


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## wquiles (May 23, 2008)

OK, here we go:

Drilling the holes for the 10x1.5mm bolts (8.5mm - drill):











Now do the tap. I use the mini-mill (manually - not on power) to align and start the tap, then continue by hand:











I then mounted the Al plate, and gave it another fine pass once in place:











and then of course mounting the new chuck, which was the goal of this project:






I used a ground drill rod for alignment:











and my new super-duper holder to measure run-out:











Since we here have concerns about the viability and longevity of the Al plate, I decided to use much longer bolts and a nilon-nut to keep everything "tightly" in place (original bolt on the left):
















Definitely looks great in place!:






Look at the OEM 4" chuck just for comparison:






I have almost 5" at full "D" size Mag light DIA inside the chuck, all the way to the spindle!:






Here is a 3D Mag, and how much can sit inside the chuck (not that I am endorsing that much hanging out unsupported - this is for illustration only):











and this is the new cutting oil that I used for the thread cutting - very heavy and very sticky stuff, but made cutting the threads relatively easy 






Now of course I have to start the work on the cast iron version, but I am going to try find a local machine shop to ground it "close" to final size before using it on my lathe 

Thanks again CPF member "dstutts" for the Al plate for this project, and for all of the great feedback/suggestions I have gotten in this project :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Will


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## wquiles (May 26, 2008)

You know, I have been using the new chuck/lathe to cut groves and to part "D" bodies, and this new chuck works awesome!!!

I can turn the outside of a D body, back the carriage away, stop the motor, loose the D body, turn it 15 degrees, re-chuck it, and when I bring the carriage again, I am dead-center where I was before - this new chuck will save tons of time   

The other thing, is that even though I was clamping the D body without any tape (like I do with my smaller/older lathe/chuck), I have zero marks from the chuck on the body - simply outstanding 

Will


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## Mirage_Man (May 26, 2008)

wquiles said:


> You know, I have been using the new chuck/lathe to cut groves and to part "D" bodies, and this new chuck works awesome!!!
> 
> I can turn the outside of a D body, back the carriage away, stop the motor, loose the D body, turn it 15 degrees, re-chuck it, and when I bring the carriage again, I am dead-center where I was before - this new chuck will save tons of time
> 
> ...



Told you that you would like it :naughty: I know I do.


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## wquiles (May 27, 2008)

Mirage_Man said:


> Told you that you would like it :naughty: I know I do.



Yes, I remember you did, and I was hoping to get the same reaction after getting mine mounted - but there is nothing like actually "using it" to realize how nice a chuck this really is :twothumbs

Will


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## lotsaluck (May 27, 2008)

Hard to tell from your pics but is that 9 thousandths of run out measured about 3" out from chuck? If so you may think of shimming your backplate to eliminate most or all of it. Thats a heavy chuck to spin up to any real speed best to be very careful with it.


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## wquiles (May 27, 2008)

Before I mounted the chuck I did shim the backplate one last time. For run-out, I took measurements at various places along that drill rod, but the last one (8-9 mills) was about 2" away from the face of the chuck, which is what I recalled the installation manual recommended. If I keep messing with it I might make it even smaller, but right now I am getting enough repeatability, when removing and re-chucking stuff, so I am pretty happy. Following your advice I am staying from any high speeds for now until I can get the cast iron plate finished.

Will


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## will (May 27, 2008)

It make sense to do a skim cut on the adapter plate while it is mounted and torqued in place. Then you could measure the runout. Any runout you still have would be in the chuck itself.

useful shims - cellophane .0005 thick, paper is generally .003 thick.


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## wquiles (May 27, 2008)

will said:


> It make sense to do a skim cut on the adapter plate while it is mounted and torqued in place. Then you could measure the runout. Any runout you still have would be in the chuck itself.
> 
> useful shims - cellophane .0005 thick, paper is generally .003 thick.



That is how I did the last skim cut on the adapter plate - once it was on the spindle, and torqued in place. If I remember right, the chuck instructions state you should be able to do/get something like 0.0005" or so run-out once adjusted, and I am within a few mills of that, so I stopped there - it is actually working great right at the moment.

The other thing to note is that the run-out I measured is not from the chuck being not flat against the mounting plate, but rather the chuck not being perfectly centered in the adapter plate - which makes sense since that is how the set-true feature is supposed to work. It is just a slow and tedious process since the chuck's mounting bolts have to be "tight", but not too so tight that they would prevent "movement" (really sliding) the chuck on the face of the adapter plate. And then, as you tighten the screws, you might actually move it a "little" bit, so you kind of have to tweak it again, and again. Doable, but took me a little bit of time 

I "really" like how well this set-tru chuck works (plus it is well matched to my 2HP motor). Probably best was the actual experience of making my own mounting plate from scratch - that was a great project by itself 

Will


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## will (May 27, 2008)

I still am fighting with my mini lathe and a 3 inch chuck. The most frustrating part is to make a cut, remove the work, put it back in and it runs out. I even mark some pieces to put them back in the same way. Even with all that - I still am able to turn out some decent work.


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## wquiles (May 27, 2008)

will said:


> I still am fighting with my mini lathe and a 3 inch chuck. The most frustrating part is to make a cut, remove the work, put it back in and it runs out. I even mark some pieces to put them back in the same way. Even with all that - I still am able to turn out some decent work.



I am with you there: the 7x12 lathe that I have is the one that I used to learn, and I have done some cool projects/prototypes on it, besides Mag cutting/re-threading of course 

Here is one of the most interesting prototypes I have done (last Summer):











Will


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## will (May 28, 2008)

I learned all this in a prototype machine shop - we had precision machines that could do repeat work and keep things going with no runout. One thing I miss is a lathe with collets, it is so much easier working with small stock. A milling machine would be nice to have as well. I have been making magician's wands. These are 12-15 inches long. I had to make an adapter to hold the wood inside the lathe head so I could work with a length that is longer than the 10 inch lathe can handle.


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## tino_ale (May 28, 2008)

I love this thread! Very informative :twothumbs

Wow this chuck is really impressive


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## KenS (Nov 30, 2012)

I know this thread is four-years old, but the 8x12/14 lathe remains a popular choice-- although today it costs twice as much as it did in 2008. At any rate, threads like this are an excellent resource and I thank the forum for archiving them for us.

If the OP is still around, are you still using the lathe. How about an update. I just purchased an almost new used late complete with accessories and tooling and am trying to learn as much about it and its mods as I can.

Thanks again for a great thread!


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## 350xfire (Nov 30, 2012)

The OP is still around and one of our big contributors. I think he now has a 12" lathe.


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## gt40 (Dec 5, 2012)

This thread was an inspiration to me when I was starting out. I ended up getting an 8x14 mill(upgraded to 13x40 now) and learning to lathe and mod stuff. It also helped begin my facination with 6 jaw chucks


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## wquiles (Dec 5, 2012)

KenS said:


> I know this thread is four-years old, but the 8x12/14 lathe remains a popular choice-- although today it costs twice as much as it did in 2008. At any rate, threads like this are an excellent resource and I thank the forum for archiving them for us.
> 
> If the OP is still around, are you still using the lathe. How about an update. I just purchased an almost new used late complete with accessories and tooling and am trying to learn as much about it and its mods as I can.
> 
> Thanks again for a great thread!



You are welcome - I am glad this thread was useful 

Like Hector posted above, I moved on to a larger 12x36 lathe, which I have been using for the last 4 years or so:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?216408-my-new-lathe-Precision-Matthews-12x36

As you can imagine the 12x lathe is heavier, stiffer, and has a larger work envelope. I now would like a Taiwanese heavy 14x or 16x lathe, but my 12x is doing ok so far.

Will


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## wquiles (Dec 5, 2012)

gt40 said:


> This thread was an inspiration to me when I was starting out. I ended up getting an 8x14 mill(upgraded to 13x40 now) and learning to lathe and mod stuff. It also helped begin my facination with 6 jaw chucks



I still think that 6", 6-jaw was "the" best machining purchase I have ever made for this hobby - I got lucky I bought it new, on special, right before the cost almost doubled!

Will


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