# Fenix TK40 part 3



## Pydpiper (Feb 3, 2009)

_[Continued from __Part 2__]_

First I have seen of it (the photo I mean), if this is redundant forgive me.


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## richardcpf (Feb 3, 2009)

*Re: TK40 photo*

The head looks "weak" for a TK series light...


*SEE IT IN ACTION!! * *2:30*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=HK&hl=zh-TW&v=x8QVH1Vgl2k

"630 lumens!"


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## Destroid Monster (Apr 8, 2009)

qip said:


> did you leave it on or did it click on accidentally ? ...whats all this lockout talk , does this have a parasitic drain



According to the manual, lockout is recommended due to the parasitic drain but to be fair I've never really get around to prove the drain but the sensitive clicky is quite a pain & 3 full turn for a lockout is pretty inconvenient.

For sharing, I'm using the same Tatanka len pouch $10 (pix shown with my Porky L6-M6 setup)


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## jzmtl (Apr 8, 2009)

Well all these talk of drain, can anyone just take a multimeter and complete the circuit and see if there is one or how much drain there is?


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## flasherByNight (Apr 8, 2009)

might as well pimp my own thread...
I'm trying to keep a summarization of all the good information throughout these threads. So if you don't want to read part 1&2 

Fenix TK40 Informational Roundup (56k Killer!)https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228421


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## bodhran (Apr 8, 2009)

flasherByNight said:


> might as well pimp my own thread...
> I'm trying to keep a summarization of all the good information throughout these threads. So if you don't want to read part 1&2
> 
> Fenix TK40 Informational Roundup (56k Killer!)https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228421


I saw and I like. Thanks


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## DM51 (Apr 8, 2009)

flasherByNight, your "Roundup" thread is a good idea. Please let me know if there are any other posts you would like moved or copied into it.

I hope members will respect your wish that they do not post in it - I've already deleted 1 superfluous post there. 

To all: discussion belongs here in this thread, so please do not post in the Roundup one.


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## flasherByNight (Apr 8, 2009)

Just a suggestion, there's sometimes a bad tendency to read only the first and last post in a thread. Maybe add my link to the first post? Just a thought... (I'm guilty of this too occasionally  )

*and like I said, please PM me for additional suggestions...I'm sure I've missed alot: some I'm just not sure _how_ it ought to be added

*(seriously image intensive fyi)*


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## burntoshine (Apr 8, 2009)

qip, it clicked on accidentally. i thought i might have cooked something in the light or lessened the life of the led. i wrote fenix to see what they had to say. i thought they might not honor the warranty if they knew it was stuffed in a backpack on turbo for a few hours, but i figure honesty is the best policy and i was willing to take the chance for peace of mind.

fenix wrote:

"Due to the overheat sensor in the light i think you are fine. If something like that was really bad for the led it would have gone into thermal runaway and it wouldn't be nearly as bright now. You dodged a bullet and are going to be just fine. In the future you may want to unscrew the back of the light a bit to lock it out."

i wasn't thinking when i threw the light in there. live and learn.

thought everyone might like to know, the tk40 can take a heating and still keep on lighting.


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## bodhran (Apr 8, 2009)

That's good to know since I'm not alway good about locking out my lights.


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## Twinkle-Plank (Apr 9, 2009)

Just wondering does the TK40 have reverse polarity protection?


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 9, 2009)

*Alkalines and maximum power*



HKJ said:


> That might be the reason, but Alkaline can provide full power for some time, at least at the levels TK40 is using.



Is is bad regulation or just the inherent limitations of alkaline battery chemistry? There's a limit to how much power you can obtain from a battery. If the device has a very low resistance, battery power is maximized, but almost all of the power is wasted in the battery, causing it to heat up (this is true regardless of battery chemistry). With very high device resistance, less power is wasted, but the total power from the battery decreases, so again, the usable power will be low. There's an optimum somewhere in between, and according to my simple calculations, the unsurprising result is: This maximum usable power is obtained if the resistance of the device is equal to the battery's internal resistance. In this case, we can calculate the maximum device power as U^2 / 4Rb, where U is the unloaded voltage and Rb the battery's internal resistance.

I applied this formula to some publicly available information from Duracell, in particular on the CopperTop AAs (MN1500). This is the result (discharge percentage, approximate maximum device power). Note that for a TK40 in turbo mode, about 1.3W per battery are required. A more accurate estimation could be obtained by taking the 2P4S setup into account.

0% - 7W
10% - 4W
20% - 3W
30% - 2.5W
40% - 1.8W
50% - 1.6W
60% - 1.4W
70% - 1.2W
80% - 1W

This indicates that CopperTops which have been discharged less than 35% should be easily capable of driving the TK40 in turbo mode at full lumens. If the batteries have been discharged 35% to at most 65%, it should still be possible though the efficiency will noticeably decrease, speeding up the discharge rate. Below 35% remaining charge (65%+ discharged), there's no way the TK40 could continue at full power even if the regulation were perfect, which of course it isn't. I also looked at the Procell and Ultra data, but didn't analyze it further because both battery types have better characteristics than the CopperTop, so you should see a performance increase over the CopperTops in any case.

The bottom line is: Duracell CopperTops should absolutely be able to power the TK40 turbo until they have somewhat less than 50% remaining charge. Being an NiMH advocate, I'm pleasantly surprised by this observation, however I do have to note that run-of-the-mill alkaline batteries from your local discount store probably will not keep up with these numbers. For instance, if you assume that a cheap battery may have twice the internal resistance (same voltage), this means they can also deliver only one half the power. In this case, even after only a 25% discharge, the power may be insufficient for turbo mode. In addition, they will discharge less efficiently, so it will take less time until the 25% mark is hit.


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## Glock27 (Apr 9, 2009)

Twinkle-Plank said:


> Just wondering does the TK40 have reverse polarity protection?


I wouldn't think so. No way for the carrier to make contact with the pill if you put in backwards. Carrier contacts would short on tailcap installation too.
G27


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## nin82 (Apr 9, 2009)

I received my TK40 today and I very happy with it. All the guys around the office (got delivered to my workplace) that I showed it to were also very impressed by how bright it is. Feels very well built and solid and absolutely love the little 'hot' warning label on the head. I think that's brilliant.

Haven't had much of a play with it outside, but it does throw a beam of light pretty far. Hopefully I should have some more time over the next few nights to use it some more outside in the dark. 

Inside a room tailstanding on turbo mode lit the room up a little bit brighter then the 60W CFL equivalent (on a bare batten holder - no light shade) on the ceiling. How much brighter is hard to say as I have no measuring equipment. 

Overall I'm very happy with the TK40. The only real complaint that I have is, like others have mentioned, is the case that it comes with. Very flimsy hinges, the little carry handles want to pop off and mine doesn't really seem close properly either, it's very tight to close. I'll end up getting a custom pouch for the TK40 made so that I can mount it onto my camelbak anyway, so even if the included fenix case was well built I probably wouldn't have used it so it's not that big of a complaint to me. The UI isn't bad either, just takes some getting used to, but I do appreciate not having to flick through any of the flash modes when switching through brightness levels.


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## firnman (Apr 9, 2009)

I just got my TK40 also. I'm very impressed with this light but I'm fairly new to this forum and to flash light tech. 

I think I'll use this light alot, therefore, over the counter AA Copper Top type batteries will soon bleed my wallet dry. 

What rechargeable batteries does everyone recommend for this light and what charger will charge 8 AA batteries at once? 

thanks for the replies,

newbie with great new tool.....:twothumbs


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## DeadLed (Apr 9, 2009)

firnman said:


> I just got my TK40 also. I'm very impressed with this light but I'm fairly new to this forum and to flash light tech.
> 
> What rechargeable batteries does everyone recommend for this light and what charger will charge 8 AA batteries at once?
> 
> ...



Congrats on your new toy. I am highly impressed by the Tk40 and the overall quality of the package minus the little flimsy box it came with. :sick2:

I am a huge fan of Sanyo Eneloop batteries. I have about 16 AA´s for my lights, gps etc. I highly recommend these for they are IMO the best NIMH batteries on the market. Regarding the charger I have two Eneloop chargers that take 4 batteries each.


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## Glock27 (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm using Sanyo 2700's for longest runtime. I will use Eneloops for long term storage in ready condition. 
Maha makes 2 versions of an 8*AA charger each with different charge rates. I use a pair of Maha C9000s. I like the data that the C9000 gives you......along with settable refresh, cycle and analyze functions.
G27


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## 276 (Apr 9, 2009)

I got mine today and its very cool but i got one thing. Its annoying that there really is no lock out to prevent accidental turn on other than that i cant wait to use it tonight.


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## bhuber (Apr 9, 2009)

276 said:


> I got mine today and its very cool but i got one thing. Its annoying that there really is no lock out to prevent accidental turn on other than that i cant wait to use it tonight.



Really there is, just turn the head or tail cap about 3 turns to lock it out. The instructions state this. I prefer to lock out the tail cap rather than the head, but either will work. Mine is locked out now to prevent battery drain. I also do this with my TK10 when its in it's in a bag so the button doesn't get pressed on momentary on. I got to briefly go out last night and shine it around for a few minutes, I'm blown away by the throw. Enjoy it!


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## north_star (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm useing for a pouch for my TK40 is a crown royal pouch nice and soft


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## burntoshine (Apr 9, 2009)

firnman said:


> What rechargeable batteries does everyone recommend for this light and what charger will charge 8 AA batteries at once?



i bought 16 rechargable energizers specifically for the tk40 and they work great. energizer makes chargers that charge 8 AAs at a time.

i'm curious about the sanyo eneloops though. can someone tell me the deal with them? longer runtime maybe? they seem to be a favorite AA rechargable battery amongst flashaholics.


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## VF1Jskull1 (Apr 9, 2009)

north_star said:


> I'm useing for a pouch for my TK40 is a crown royal pouch nice and soft



plenty of those pouches around the house here...may consider using one as a pouch for the Eagletac M2X i'm getting for myself and for the TK40 i'm getting for my father. sister's boyfriend drinks crown&coke (croke) every time they come over to visit (he supplies the croke, as i don't drink).


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## 276 (Apr 9, 2009)

bhuber said:


> Really there is, just turn the head or tail cap about 3 turns to lock it out. The instructions state this. I prefer to lock out the tail cap rather than the head, but either will work. Mine is locked out now to prevent battery drain. I also do this with my TK10 when its in it's in a bag so the button doesn't get pressed on momentary on. I got to briefly go out last night and shine it around for a few minutes, I'm blown away by the throw. Enjoy it!




Yeah i read that in the manual but i can still turn mine on after i do that on either end.... i think i fixed it by pushing the spring in a bit so its not out so far.


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## bhuber (Apr 9, 2009)

276 said:


> Yeah i read that in the manual but i can still turn mine on after i do that on either end.... i think i fixed it by pushing the spring in a bit so its not out so far.



Manual says 2.5 turns. It's more like 3 or more. Great light, huh?


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## nin82 (Apr 10, 2009)

Thought I'd add in a couple of photos of more size comparisons.

Going left to right: Fenix LD10, 2xAA minimag, Fenix TK40, 2xD Maglite







Same again but looking head on, the TK40 is probably about 2mm bigger in diameter than the 2xD Mag.


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## Viper715 (Apr 10, 2009)

I know this is beating a dead horse but more bemashots/comparisons. Any of you out there special enough to have trial on the new Eagletak M series or a Legion 2 those beamshot comparisons would be worth $1,000,000.00 bucks. Those are the three lights I'm stuck in the middle of and without something to look at to make me hold out it looks like it's going to be the Fenix. Even without those for camparison some shots of this light in the wild would be great. ie out camping, walking through the woods, in a building like a warehouse or anything but a whitewall. I really want to see what this thing can do. Thanks


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Apr 10, 2009)

Just got mine today, very impressive for LED! Kinda reminds me of how I felt when I first lit up a Space Needle II back in the day! While definitely not a wall of light like a L4 on steriods...it does produce a good mix of spill and spot. 

Two things that bugged me though, this is the first light I actually had to read a manual to operate! While it took me a few seconds to get it, I initially followed the diagram and stuck all the batteries in + towards bezel to - at tailcap, against my instincts of spring side is negative (-). The other thing is battery holder rattles

The AA usage is what sold it for me on this light....I already have plenty of AAs, and they are found everywhere.


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## nin82 (Apr 10, 2009)

Here's my first attempt at posting beamshots, please be kind  I'll be comparing three torches, Fenix LD10, Kingpower K2 & the Fenix TK40 all run at max power.

My camera is a point-and-shoot type (panasonic dmc-tz15), which turns out to be hopeless at taking night shots at range, however the 'night scenery' mode did take photos that were fairly close to how it looked in real life of some beamshots at 10 metres (~33 feet). 

Firstly, daytime shot for comparison. It is 10 metres to the wooden fence.






And now, night shot with no lighting also for comparison.






Fenix LD10 turbo mode (120 lumen)






Kingpower K2 high mode (180 lumen)






And finally Fenix TK40 turbo mode (630 lumen)






I was did try taking beamshots at at longer ranges, but the photos didn't turn out so well...


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## Kilovolt (Apr 10, 2009)

It's still afternoon here so I don't know yet the real power of my brand new light 






Looking forward to tonight.


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## Joe Talmadge (Apr 10, 2009)

burntoshine said:


> i bought 16 rechargable energizers specifically for the tk40 and they work great. energizer makes chargers that charge 8 AAs at a time.
> 
> i'm curious about the sanyo eneloops though. can someone tell me the deal with them? longer runtime maybe? they seem to be a favorite AA rechargable battery amongst flashaholics.



I'm about to dive into rechargeable AAs and was wondering the same thing ... I know Eneloops are known for holding a charge, more primary-like than the steady drain of a rechargeable, but I figured the rechargeable energizers and the like use the same chemistry. Would appreciate any enlightenment ... moving to these would be a requirement for me to pick up a TK40, so want to nail this first.


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## Haz (Apr 10, 2009)

Joe Talmadge said:


> I'm about to dive into rechargeable AAs and was wondering the same thing ... I know Eneloops are known for holding a charge, more primary-like than the steady drain of a rechargeable, but I figured the rechargeable energizers and the like use the same chemistry. Would appreciate any enlightenment ... moving to these would be a requirement for me to pick up a TK40, so want to nail this first.


 
If you intend to charge the batteries and intend to use it immediately Energizers will be fine for your needs. They have higher Mah's compared to Eneloops, so it will give you longer runtime. However if you charge and don't intend to use the battery immediately or only use it for short runtime over weeks and months, then Eneloop will be much better. The fact they hold their charge means they will be there when you need it.

Assuming water is energy in the battery, think of Energizer as a bucket full of water with a small hole in the bottom, where there is a constant and steady flow of liquid draining out of the bucket, if you drink quickly enough, then you will consume most of the water in the bucket. However if you drink slowly you will not be able to drink all the water that was originally in the bucket, because some of the water has drained away.

Think of Eneloop as a smaller bucket full of water, but with a pin prick hole in the bottom, the flow of liquid draining out of the bucket will be lesser due to a tinier hole. If you drink quickly, you will consume most of the water in the bucket, but would still less than the Energizer, due to a smaller size bucket holding less water. However if you drink slowly, it does not matter as much, because you are not losing as much water over time.

So the decision to choose Energizer of Eneloop depends if you are a fast drinker or slow drinker!.


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## burntoshine (Apr 10, 2009)

Haz said:


> If you intend to charge the batteries and intend to use it immediately Energizers will be fine for your needs. They have higher Mah's compared to Eneloops, so it will give you longer runtime. However if you charge and don't intend to use the battery immediately or only use it for short runtime over weeks and months, then Eneloop will be much better. The fact they hold their charge means they will be there when you need it.
> 
> Assuming water is energy in the battery, think of Energizer as a bucket full of water with a small hole in the bottom, where there is a constant and steady flow of liquid draining out of the bucket, if you drink quickly enough, then you will consume most of the water in the bucket. However if you drink slowly you will not be able to drink all the water that was originally in the bucket, because some of the water has drained away.
> 
> ...



thanks! very well put; and simple enough for anyone to understand. these here energizers'll work just fine for me. i can charge up my 16 for camping or other night outing (in this weekend's case, night easter egg hunt!!) and keep primaries in it whilst it sits atop my nightstand day to day.


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## bodhran (Apr 10, 2009)

Youtube has a new video of the tk40. Pretty well done.


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## rizky_p (Apr 10, 2009)

nin82 said:


> Thought I'd add in a couple of photos of more size comparisons.
> 
> Going left to right: Fenix LD10, 2xAA minimag, Fenix TK40, 2xD Maglite
> 
> ...



ah finally i can imagine how big it is, thanks.

Just wondering how is it compared to Mag P7 using stippled standard reflector compared to TK40 in throw performance. 

(still considering tk40 but i have Mag-P7 driven at 3.5Amps)


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## Glock27 (Apr 10, 2009)

Does any vendor have spare battery carriers? I would feel better having a spare. Once a spare is at hand, the original will probably last forever, but until then.....I'd hate for Murphy to strike and bring the TK40 down.
G27


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## eric1975 (Apr 10, 2009)

can i use AA lithium batteries in the tk40 and get max output for the amount of time it says


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## qip (Apr 10, 2009)

eric1975 said:


> can i use AA lithium batteries in the tk40 and get max output for the amount of time it says




i would think more, everytime i see runtimes the L91 always beats nimh and the post here showing nimh doing 2 hours ...maybe 2.5 for L91


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## The Beacon (Apr 10, 2009)

Perhaps I am confused, but the specs for the TK40 state that it uses 8x 1.5v AA batteries. But rechargeable AAs are usually 1.2v. Would this be a problem?


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## nin82 (Apr 10, 2009)

The Beacon said:


> Perhaps I am confused, but the specs for the TK40 state that it uses 8x 1.5v AA batteries. But rechargeable AAs are usually 1.2v. Would this be a problem?



No problem, mine is running fine on 8 x AA eneloops


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## 276 (Apr 10, 2009)

I used mine tonight in the rain and it worked great. I got to get me some more rechargeables since i only got alkalines in it.


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## Ryanrpm (Apr 10, 2009)

276 said:


> I used mine tonight in the rain and it worked great. I got to get me some more rechargeables since i only got alkalines in it.




C'mon 276....we need some beamshots from you next chance you get!


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## Mike89 (Apr 11, 2009)

Just a note. I've read about some saying there is some kind of battery drain leaving the light off with batteries in. I have not seen this problem with mine. I've had it 5 days now with batteries (alkaline and not unscrewing bottom) and have not noticed any battery drain. Still just as bright as it was 5 days ago.


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## Cartman (Apr 11, 2009)

Mike89 said:


> Just a note. I've read about some saying there is some kind of battery drain leaving the light off with batteries in. I have not seen this problem with mine. I've had it 5 days now with batteries (alkaline and not unscrewing bottom) and have not noticed any battery drain. Still just as bright as it was 5 days ago.



I suspect it was a translation problem. Maybe they mean 2.5 months. I can't see how much of drain there could be in 2.5 days. Mine has also been fine in the five days I have had it.


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## 276 (Apr 11, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> C'mon 276....we need some beamshots from you next chance you get!



I'll see what i can do... I got a spot i think i can use it to take a few quick shots without pissing my neighbors off.


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## Kilovolt (Apr 11, 2009)

This tree is at the back of my garden and it is 40 m away. I have compared a TK10 and the TK40 both on turbo:


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## woodrow (Apr 11, 2009)

I was hoping to say that the TK40 (just received) would live up to my hopes...afterall I sold a 35w hid to fund it... but actually, it has surpassed them. My favorite light (ever) was my old UK lightcannon100 10w hid. It had a nice spot and 450 lumens of output in a small package. I always wanted a M6, but 6x123a's with 20 minutes of burn was just something I could not convince myself to buy. (I did buy a m3 and m4 though)

This light finally has given me everything I have been looking for. A Wide spill with a medium sized spot. Rechargable...and yet can run on primaries...plus multiple levels. The beam is (I believe) even brighter than my old lightcannon's...but I can also use it on medium and high. High easilly outshines my Olight M20's highest setting...with turbo a push of a button away if you need it. 

Everyone else has been nice enough to add a few beamshots...which is why I bought my TK40, so I thought I would add a few...forgive me that my broken tripod has not been replaced so shots are handheld with the self timer at 1 sec at f/2.8 iso64 wb at daylight.

First, the TK40 on high..about 17 yards to target bush




Next is the Olight M20 R2 on highest setting using 2x123a's




Last, the Fenix TK40 on Turbo...8xaa enerloops





Not perfect, but you get the general idea....Great Light!


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 11, 2009)

The Beacon said:


> Perhaps I am confused, but the specs for the TK40 state that it uses 8x 1.5v AA batteries. But rechargeable AAs are usually 1.2v. Would this be a problem?



No, all Fenix torches with AA or AAA batteries perform very well (and actually better than on alkalines) on NiMH rechargeables. The 1.5V rating of alkaline batteries is the open circuit voltage of a fresh battery (it can be as high as 1.6V). This is not a very meaningful figure with respect to flashlights for two reasons:


To get constant brightness (very important to most CPFers) and good runtime, the device must be able to get a lot of power from partially drained batteries. eneloop rechargeables that have been discharged 30% however will already have a higher remaining voltage than a typical alkaline battery that has been discharged 30%. Higher voltage stability is a great advantage of NiMH batteries over alkalines.
Open circuit voltage matters most for devices that require a high voltage but have low drain (high resistance), e.g. smoke detectors. Flashlights are high drain devices (low resistance) and in this case, the actual voltage is significantly affected by the higher internal resistance of alkaline batteries.

The 1.2V for NiMH, on the other hand, is the average voltage over the discharge period until the battery is almost exhausted (cut-off voltage of 0.9V). The open circuit voltage of a freshly charged NiMH battery can be as high as 1.45V, but this is also meaningless because the voltage will quickly drop to around 1.3V when discharged by 5%.

In general, Fenix AA or AAA lights will perform best with lithium primaries, second best with NiMH batteries, and third best with alkaline batteries while zinc-carbon batteries (so-called "heavy duty" batteries lol) are completely useless. Because disposable lithium batteries are so expensive, I recommend rechargeables unless you plan to conquer Mt. Everest.


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## jirik_cz (Apr 11, 2009)

Did anyone try to measure the parasitic battery drain? I have very cheap multimeter and it showed 0.5mA on 200mA scale. Can anyone with better equipment measure it?


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## bhuber (Apr 11, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> Did anyone try to measure the parasitic battery drain? I have very cheap multimeter and it showed 0.5mA on 200mA scale. Can anyone with better equipment measure it?



Could you explain what that means? I wish I knew how to use my multi meter, other than to test if a battery is good.

Thanks!


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## crazyk4952 (Apr 11, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> Did anyone try to measure the parasitic battery drain? I have very cheap multimeter and it showed 0.5mA on 200mA scale.



If this current draw is correct, that means that in one month, it will draw 360mAH. If it is loaded with eneloops and you have two parallel channels of batteries, then you will have 4000 mAH of energy.

So basically, it will drain about 10% of the energy from the batteries every month that it sits on the shelf! That seems rather high!?

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?


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## qip (Apr 11, 2009)

get rid of smart memory chip if its the parasite ,i rather have it default start at low anyway like other fenix's


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## Mr Floppy (Apr 11, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> Did anyone try to measure the parasitic battery drain? I have very cheap multimeter and it showed 0.5mA on 200mA scale. Can anyone with better equipment measure it?



Any tips on how you measured it? I tried the the tail cap, then I tried the head but on the 200mA scale, I still get nothing. My multimeter is a bit cheap too so I cant get into the μA range


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## StandardBattery (Apr 11, 2009)

Mr Floppy said:


> Any tips on how you measured it? I tried the the tail cap, then I tried the head but on the 200mA scale, I still get nothing. My multimeter is a bit cheap too so I cant get into the μA range


 
Enter "how to use a multimeter" into google and you will get a lot of good information/videos on basic usage. For current measurement the meter must be used to complete the electrical circuit. It is easy to burn your meter, or pop it's fuse if it has one, when measuring current so read instructions first.


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## Mr Floppy (Apr 11, 2009)

StandardBattery said:


> Enter "how to use a multimeter" into google.


Umm, thanks man, but I do know how to use a multimeter. Looking for tips on measuring the TK40 however. In particular if theres a significant parasitic drain or my alligator clips have too much resistance.

Its a battle of the cheap multimeters. I get nothing on mine, Jirik gets 0.5mA. At the 200mA scale, my multimeter can measure a decimal point and I expected atleast a 0.1 but I get nothing


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## TallNHairyDave (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for the quick reviews, pics and beamshots so far.

I ordered myself a TK40 on Friday afternoon. Have had the email telling me it's been shipped, now I just have to wait for the end of the easter break here in the UK as there'll be no post delivery on Monday.

Can't wait until Tuesday for it to arrive! Eneloops are charging as I speak :twothumbs


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## StandardBattery (Apr 11, 2009)

Mr Floppy said:


> Umm, thanks man, but I do know how to use a multimeter. *...*


 
Sorry Mr. Floppy, I meant to reply to 'bhuber' post.


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## jahxman (Apr 11, 2009)

qip said:


> get rid of smart memory chip if its the parasite ,i rather have it default start at low anyway like other fenix's


 
I doubt the smart memory chip is the drain; if I leave the tailcap off in lockout for a full day (i.e. no juice reaching the chip from the batteries) then it still remembers the last mode it was on. That indicates some kind of persistent storage I would think.


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## Joe Talmadge (Apr 11, 2009)

Haz said:


> If you intend to charge the batteries and intend to use it immediately Energizers will be fine for your needs. They have higher Mah's compared to Eneloops, so it will give you longer runtime. However if you charge and don't intend to use the battery immediately or only use it for short runtime over weeks and months, then Eneloop will be much better. The fact they hold their charge means they will be there when you need it.



Thanks, I appreciate it! Doesn't make the decision any easier, alas, but at least now I understand the difference. Thanks again! I am thinking of standardizing on some rechargeable for my often-used AA and AAA devices -- e.g., camera, remote control -- and use the same in the TK40 if that's the blaster I end up with.


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 11, 2009)

qip said:


> get rid of smart memory chip if its the parasite ,i rather have it default start at low anyway like other fenix's


+1 If there is indeed confirmed parasitic drain then that light isn't for me.

And I'd say drop some modes while they're at it.  I'd love to have the PD series UI... just maybe switch the SOS to a locater flash instead.


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## NiceGuyGaz (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks to all the forum members for all the information above, I finally ordered mine today, looking forward to getting it!

To put my mind at rest over the whole K/M bin debate - the ebay vendor is offering a free engraving service - I've requested that he puts "prototype M-bin - not for public sale" lol :thumbsup:


----------



## Wattnot (Apr 11, 2009)

Mr Floppy said:


> Umm, thanks man, but I do know how to use a multimeter. Looking for tips on measuring the TK40 however. In particular if theres a significant parasitic drain or my alligator clips have too much resistance.


 
You Sunday multimeter drivers are NOT losing your minds. There is an explanation: 

I just tried to measure the current from the bottom of the battery carrier to the nearby threads. The light came on but the meter showed NO movement on the 10 amp scale. I thought my good old Simpson was broken! Then I studied it some more and discovered that the main power comes from the TOP of the battery carrier (head side), both positive AND negative. The bottom plate is negative but evidentally used only for switching the logic circuitry. I'm going to have to carefully insert rods down the body to take accurate current draw measurements, which I will do if I can. This explains the parasitic drain, to me at least.


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## jzmtl (Apr 11, 2009)

jahxman said:


> I doubt the smart memory chip is the drain; if I leave the tailcap off in lockout for a full day (i.e. no juice reaching the chip from the batteries) then it still remembers the last mode it was on. That indicates some kind of persistent storage I would think.



The electronic type switch used here need to have some current flowing all the time to detect when you click it. That's what the power drain is for, not storage.


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## qip (Apr 11, 2009)

why oh why did they do it this way , the previous switch method was just fine before ...if it aint broke dont fix it


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## davidt (Apr 11, 2009)

Maybe this is a good thing the tk40 switch and not memory consumes power. Now we don't have to open the head to remove the memory chip to stop parasitic current. It probably be easier to open up the tail cap and replace the electronic switch with a mechanical one. Maybe the electronic switch can be replaced with the same switch as the other tk lights use.


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## jzmtl (Apr 11, 2009)

davidt said:


> Maybe this is a good thing the tk40 switch and not memory consumes power. Now we don't have to open the head to remove the memory chip to stop parasitic current. It probably be easier to open up the tail cap and replace the electronic switch with a mechanical one. Maybe the electronic switch can be replaced with the same switch as the other tk lights use.


You can't unfortunately. I don't have a TK40 to look at but generally what's in the tail is simply an momentary switch that sends a pulse to processor (where power drain is consumed) when you press it. Replace it with a clickie will simply achieve the same effect as holding the button down.


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## jirik_cz (Apr 11, 2009)

Wattnot said:


> I just tried to measure the current from the bottom of the battery carrier to the nearby threads. The light came on but the meter showed NO movement on the 10 amp scale. I thought my good old Simpson was broken! Then I studied it some more and discovered that the main power comes from the TOP of the battery carrier (head side), both positive AND negative. The bottom plate is negative but evidentally used only for switching the logic circuitry. I'm going to have to carefully insert rods down the body to take accurate current draw measurements, which I will do if I can. This explains the parasitic drain, to me at least.



My 0,5mA draw is measured from the bottom of the battery carrier (the light didn't came on). Waiting for a measurement from someone with better equipment. I don't think that my multimeter is very accurate at very low currents.


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## Wattnot (Apr 11, 2009)

I managed to build a contraption and took some readings. It was a real PITA.

However, the findings are premature for right now . . . . but will be in my review. I feel you will be pleased. :naughty:


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## TheRedDread (Apr 12, 2009)

If this hasn't been mentioned yet, theres a good video of Fenix TK40 on youtube created by eardowel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWG4B7yp2Z4


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## Kilovolt (Apr 14, 2009)

A couple of comparison shots to help those who are still undecided because they think this light is too big:


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## Mike89 (Apr 14, 2009)

Heh heh, good one.


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## flasherByNight (Apr 14, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> A couple of comparison shots to help those who are still undecided because they think this light is too big:



I'd rather see how many of the eo1 you can stick INSIDE the 40


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## roadie (Apr 14, 2009)

it has a battery carrier like the one similar in a SF M6?

ouch ..... i hate that alot ....  goes out for another new light on the block instead ....  

but its the only one that has strobe function .... :mecry:


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## PhantomPhoton (Apr 14, 2009)

roadie said:


> but its the only one that has strobe function .... :mecry:



Only one of what?
If you mean P7/ MC-E lights... both Eagletac and Wolf Eyes lights have strobe.
If you mean big AA lights... well it is the only AA big light out there right now anyway.


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## fiftycalibre (Apr 15, 2009)

Hmm after reading all the threads, I am very tempted to buy a TK40 right now, although I suppose I should wait and see if there is an "upgraded" version. I have already gone and bought a HEAP of eneloops and my Maha C9000 should be coming tomorrow, all in preperation for the TK40!

Until then, I can keep using my other Fenix lights (P3D and P2D).

Thanks for the useful info guys!


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## TallNHairyDave (Apr 15, 2009)

Mine took an extra day to arrive, but review with photos is now up.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/229104

Will add beamshots later when it gets dark and outdoor beamshots at the weekend (too may streetlights around me. Will head to the woods on Saturday).


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 16, 2009)

TheRedDread said:


> If this hasn't been mentioned yet, theres a good video of Fenix TK40 on youtube created by eardowel.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWG4B7yp2Z4



He's mixing eneloops with Delkin rechargeables. Seems like somebody is trying hard to deep discharge a few batteries. 

I'm a bit concerned about deep discharging however even if identical NiMH batteries are used. Is this a problem? Can 3 strong cells in one series mask one weaker cell?


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## woodrow (Apr 16, 2009)

I took my new TA30 with me on my nightly walk tonight instead of the TK40. Wow you can get used to 600 lumens pretty fast. I only use the light in a couple of dark places I walk through, and 200+ lumens always has seemed more than bright enough... until tonight.

Tomorrow the TK40 goes out with me again.


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## fairway1 (Apr 16, 2009)

Anyone else have any holster or case ideas? I can tell you the flimsy plastic case the light came in won't last too long. I don't own a Surefire m6 but would the John Willis case for the m6 work with the TK40?


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## cuttingedge (Apr 16, 2009)

fairway1 said:


> Anyone else have any holster or case ideas? I can tell you the flimsy plastic case the light came in won't last too long. I don't own a Surefire m6 but would the John Willis case for the m6 work with the TK40?


 I have ordered a holster from Pacific Tactical Solutions. It is listed under accessories for Wolf Eyes flashlights. The model is Boxer 168R Nylon Holster. It specifically says it will fit the Tk40. I should be receiving it in a couple of days. I will post a thread when it arrives and I try it out.


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## MiniLux (Apr 16, 2009)

roadie said:


> it has a battery carrier like the one similar in a SF M6?
> 
> ouch ..... i hate that alot ....  goes out for another new light on the block instead ....
> 
> but its the only one that has strobe function .... :mecry:


 
Epsilon ED-P72 does have a strobe function too:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=187645
(dunno if offer is still valid)
or
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=192999
(scratched version)

MiniLux


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## YAK-28 (Apr 16, 2009)

i tried the case form a coast p-14, it seemed to fit nicely.


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 16, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> A couple of comparison shots to help those who are still undecided because they think this light is too big:



So would you recommend the cigar or pencil grip?


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## Kilovolt (Apr 17, 2009)

Jackal-Head said:


> So would you recommend the cigar or pencil grip?


 
I don't know yet but what I can say is that in case you need both hands free you can easily keep the TK40 between your teeth .... :naughty:


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## LawLight (Apr 17, 2009)

Does anyone know if the TK40 will fit in the John Willis (SOE) M6 Holster? *

Note - It looks like I answered my own question. Surefire gave me the specs on bezel and length of the M6 (I don't own one) and I got the dimensions of the TK40 from Fenix. AND . . . it will fit!)

LawLight


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## 276 (Apr 18, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> C'mon 276....we need some beamshots from you next chance you get!



I tried to take some shots last week some in and some outdoors.

Indoors at about 30ft





On low





On Medium





On Hi





On Turbo





Here are some tries at outside on only turbo does it come out good low you cant see anything in the picture but you can in real life.

Low at 50ft 





Low at 150ft





Med at 50ft





Med at 150ft





Hi at 50ft





Hi at 150ft a bit shaking 





Turbo at 50ft





Turbo at 150ft


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## cuttingedge (Apr 20, 2009)

I just received my new holster for the Tk40 and I am very impressed. I AM NOT ADVERTISING! I just want to tell you owners of this big light, that the Boxer -24w 168A holster, made for Wolf Eyes Boxer 10W/24W 168AR, Super Storm and Fenix Tk40 works really well. The light fits tightly in the holster. The top flap that covers the head as well as the large belt loop on the back, have velcro as well as snaps to close. 
I do not have a good history with anything that breaks when dropped, so I am hoping this holster will at least prolong the inevitable :ironic:


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## Mike89 (Apr 20, 2009)

> I just received my new holster for the Tk40 and I am very impressed.


 
I got this same holster a few days ago (from a tip in this thread). I also really like it. Very heavy duty and if anything can protect this light, this sucker sure can.


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## Ryanrpm (Apr 20, 2009)

Thanks 276 for the pics!!

One more request........

Can you take some comparison shots of the TK40 with the Sniper P7 you have? Beamshots on Turbo at about 150-300ft?


Thanks bud!


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## Da_Pilot (Apr 20, 2009)

Hey guys, I've been lurking here for the last 4 months after purchasing a TK11 and am anxiously waiting for the delivery of my TK40. I'm new to flashlights but not new to internet forums and I must say that the wealth of knowledge here is impressive.

I just wanted to share what Fenix wrote back regarding the "M" Bin MCE LED:
*******************************************************

Hello ****** ​ Here is Fenix manufacturer in China.​ Thank you very much for using Fenix light. ​ Actaully, most of the existing TK40 we also have used "M" bin CREE MCE LED, it's possible that yours is also this kind. And in the future, we will use more "M" bin CREE MCE LED in the TK40, but there won't any plan about update on the TK40 in the short time, please believe us.​ Best regards! ​ Sincerely Joyce 
Fenix Service Team 
Website: www.fenixlight.com 
Tel: 86-0755-29631183 
MSN: [email protected]  
**************************************************

I honestly hope that my TK40 will be "most of the existing TK40's". I've done enough research here to know that the human eye won't notice a difference. However, with the amount of money i spent, I would like the piece of mind of having the most recent technology if you know what I mean.


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## Wattnot (Apr 20, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> Can you take some comparison shots of the TK40 with the Sniper P7 you have? Beamshots on Turbo at about 150-300ft?
> 
> Thanks bud!


 
I did this already IF you are talking about the P7 Sniper that came out last year. Beyond 100 feet it is all flood. Here are some beamshots and I got a couple at 300 feet. The Sniper did show up but never gave any real competition to the TK40.


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## BrightMan (Apr 21, 2009)

Da_Pilot said:


> Hey guys, I've been lurking here for the last 4 months after purchasing a TK11 and am anxiously waiting for the delivery of my TK40. I'm new to flashlights but not new to internet forums and I must say that the wealth of knowledge here is impressive.
> 
> I just wanted to share what Fenix wrote back regarding the "M" Bin MCE LED:
> *******************************************************
> ...



How much lumens difference would be there with a M bin LED?
Is there any way to check which type is used?


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## infernoken (Apr 21, 2009)

BrightMan said:


> How much lumens difference would be there with a M bin LED?
> Is there any way to check which type is used?



You can check it on the Fenix website with the serial number inquiry...

http://www.fenixlight.com.cn/snen.asp

I did, I see i have a K-bin TK40, but the lumens out of my TK40 are plenty, so I'm happy...

PS. This is what you get:

Serial Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Model: TK40 LED: CREE MC-E/*K* Reflector: Orange Peel Reflector Color: black Version of Warranty Card: English


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## fiftycalibre (Apr 21, 2009)

What is the real difference between the M bin and K bin LED? Talk to me like you would be talking to an idiot please, I am the definition of a layman.

In essence, I am asking if its safe for me to risk buying a potentially K bin LED, without disappointment?


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## Glock27 (Apr 21, 2009)

You would never know the difference without the lookup feature.
G27


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## BabyDoc (Apr 21, 2009)

Would you know the difference if you had a K and M version side-by-side and were shining them both at a distant wall?


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## Ruusperi (Apr 21, 2009)

infernoken said:


> You can check it on the Fenix website with the serial number inquiry...
> 
> http://www.fenixlight.com.cn/snen.asp
> 
> ...



Hey, nice find! I didn't know that. So there is no way telling if the light has the MC-E/M other than typing in the serial number. Damn... Hmm, when I came to this forum I was only thinking about TK40, but now I've also found the Olight M30 Triton and it seems that all M30s use the MC-E/M and it looks to be really nice light too.

M30 is cheaper but uses 18650s which means that I would have to buy my first 18650s batteries + charger(s). TK40 runs on NiMH and I do have crap loads of NiMHs around and a couple of good chargers. Decisions... decisions... :sweat:


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## bodhran (Apr 21, 2009)

I ran the serial# on mine and it shows it as an M.


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## donald2036 (Apr 21, 2009)

Ruusperi said:


> Hey, nice find! I didn't know that. So there is no way telling if the light has the MC-E/M other than typing in the serial number. Damn... Hmm, when I came to this forum I was only thinking about TK40, but now I've also found the Olight M30 Triton and it seems that all M30s use the MC-E/M and it looks to be really nice light too.
> 
> M30 is cheaper but uses 18650s which means that I would have to buy my first 18650s batteries + charger(s). TK40 runs on NiMH and I do have crap loads of NiMHs around and a couple of good chargers. Decisions... decisions... :sweat:



Shame on Fenix :thumbsdow I bought my TK40 because of their word that they are not planning to launch any upgrade on the LED bin in the short term. But it seems they are sneakingly doing a running change of the MC-E to M bin, if the news is true. I would have hold off buying it, if I were to know there is upgrade comming.

Anyway, I am gonna keep my TK40 and probably to mod it with a 5A color MC-E. Does anyone know how or have tried to take the TK40 head apart? Caz I found the head being so rigidly glued together. :tired:


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## bodhran (Apr 21, 2009)

I got mine on April 4th, so don't think it's an upgrade. Just don't know why the K and M mix.


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## fairway1 (Apr 21, 2009)

I received my TK40 on 4/14 and it has the CREE MC-E/K according to the Fenix website.


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## donald2036 (Apr 21, 2009)

It would be like a bin-lottery (between K & M) for buying TK40. What a silly move if Fenix were really to send their TK40 to the market with mixed bins. :shrug:

On the other hand, I would consider this LED bin upgrade as a substantial upgrade, to me it is not a "no big deal".


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## Yuenhop (Apr 21, 2009)

I got mine on April 4th and it shows a M. Ordered one a week later for a friend and got it on April 16 and it shows a K.


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## Yuenhop (Apr 21, 2009)

Side by side on a wall you can't tell any difference.


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## bodhran (Apr 21, 2009)

I don't know how to do it myself, but it might be interesting if someone could set up a poll to get a sampling of how many got the K or M.


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## jirik_cz (Apr 21, 2009)

The difference between K and M bin according to the Cree is as following.
Around 16% difference, that is hardly noticeable with a naked eye.


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## Da_Pilot (Apr 21, 2009)

infernoken said:


> You can check it on the Fenix website with the serial number inquiry...
> 
> http://www.fenixlight.com.cn/snen.asp
> 
> ...



Nice Find :thumbsup:

It turns out that I got the K bin LED. Bummer.....

Like you, i'm pretty impressed with the TK40 so I'm not quite as disappointed anymore !


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## cuttingedge (Apr 21, 2009)

Got mine April 4 and it checks out to be an M.:kiss:


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## Da_Pilot (Apr 21, 2009)

Those of you that received an M should go buy a lottery ticket.

Can't wait to try out my new toy tonight !


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## JediNight (Apr 21, 2009)

Haven't been around CPF for a few months, now I know why.

I just ordered one of these :laughing:


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## scivicblu83 (Apr 21, 2009)

i called the fenix store today and they said they would probably start mailing the second batch of tk40's today! hopefully i get mine soon!


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## optodoofus (Apr 21, 2009)

cuttingedge said:


> Got mine April 4 and it checks out to be an M.:kiss:



Ditto for me.

optodoofus


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## nin82 (Apr 21, 2009)

infernoken said:


> You can check it on the Fenix website with the serial number inquiry...
> 
> http://www.fenixlight.com.cn/snen.asp



Thanks for the link, turns out I got an M :thumbsup:


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## donald2036 (Apr 21, 2009)

There is a disappointment for those who received K bin, especially we all paid the same price. I don't think this lottery system is fair to the customers, and their fans.

16% might probably be a small amount of light to be noticed, but on the other hand, Fenix might have run the M-bin with a lower current to match with those with K-bin. That would really make an noticable difference to the amount of heat generated. 

Just same case of Solarforce L950M vs older model Solarforce L900, they differ with a LED bin upgrade with lower driving current. My L950M is certainly generating less heat than my TK40. The TK40 turns quite hot with 5mins of usuage, noticably hotter than my L950M.


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## Sparrow Hawk (Apr 21, 2009)

I got my M bin today but I got a defective one. After I put batteries in nothing seems to make it works. Just got to bend the metal to make a better contact.

This is my second light but my first light after I discovered CPF.


Love it.:twothumbs


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## bhuber (Apr 21, 2009)

donald2036 said:


> There is a disappointment for those who received K bin, especially we all paid the same price. I don't think this lottery system is fair to the customers, and their fans.
> 
> 16% might probably be a small amount of light to be noticed, but on the other hand, Fenix might have run the M-bin with a lower current to match with those with K-bin. That would really make an noticable difference to the amount of heat generated.
> 
> Just same case of Solarforce L950M vs older model Solarforce L900, they differ with a LED bin upgrade with lower driving current. My L950M is certainly generating less heat than my TK40. The TK40 turns quite hot with 5mins of usuage, noticably hotter than my L950M.



You're working on assumptions. Is there any proof that they are running the M-bin with a lower current? I would send it back or sell it in the marketplace if you're not happy with it. I'm very happy with mine, especially after putting it up against a surefire M6. I'm a normal guy, and don't know about or care to know what K or M bin means. 16% different? I have a hard time telling the difference between low and high on a TK 10 and that's much more than a 16% different if I recall.


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## donald2036 (Apr 21, 2009)

bhuber said:


> You're working on assumptions. Is there any proof that they are running the M-bin with a lower current? I would send it back or sell it in the marketplace if you're not happy with it. I'm very happy with mine, especially after putting it up against a surefire M6. I'm a normal guy, and don't know about or care to know what K or M bin means. 16% different? I have a hard time telling the difference between low and high on a TK 10 and that's much more than a 16% different if I recall.



Yes, that was an assumption. But what is fact is that Fenix has mixed their TK40 with K & M bin, and that's absolutely unfair to a portion of customer, especially I believe most of the pre-orders are with K-bins, whilst, most of the pre-orders are hardcore Fenix fans. And that I'm just disappointted how Fenix treat their fans.

You might not probably care about the 16%, but that doesn't mean somebody else don't care.


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## Wattnot (Apr 21, 2009)

Hey, for those of you with the K bin, or who are thinking of buying and worried about receiving a K bin, I just ran my review unit's serial number and low and behold, it's a K bin.

Just go ahead and buy it! I can't imagine this thing getting any brighter! Those beamshots were taken on 4 Eneloops to boot!


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## donald2036 (Apr 21, 2009)

Wattnot said:


> Hey, for those of you with the K bin, or who are thinking of buying and worried about receiving a K bin, I just ran my review unit's serial number and low and behold, it's a K bin.
> 
> Just go ahead and buy it! I can't imagine this thing getting any brighter! Those beamshots were taken on 4 Eneloops to boot!



Nice review. I run my TK40 with 4 AA also, and I just don't see any difference in brightness comparing with 8AA except the shorter runtime.  

BTW, I would really hope to see more reviews on the runtime with 4AAs. Especially on high mode (not turbo) which I use the most.


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## bodhran (Apr 21, 2009)

I agree that knowing how many people feel about thier flashlights, it probably wasn't a good idea for Fenix to mix the bins, but either way, it's still a great flashlight. I also recieved a Wolf Eyes holster which was mentioned in an earlier post. Fits the TK40 very well. A smaller one that also works is the Raine D cell holster.


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## Mr_Light (Apr 22, 2009)

I just checked and mine is a K-Bin... I'm still very happy with the light, but I am discouraged from preordering lights. In the future I think I will wait for products to stabilize and have some track record before ordering.


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## Mike89 (Apr 22, 2009)

This making such fuss over the "m bin" K bin" thing is really annoying in my opinion, especially from some who say they wouldn't have bought the light if they knew they got a "K bin" or are so disappointed now, they can't get a good nights sleep anymore. I just checked mine and it's a k bin. Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. I know what this light does when I take it outside at night and whatever the hell bin it ended up being, didn't change the beam and the throw. I would challenge anyone to show there is any noticable difference outside (not from those stupid wall shots). For the ones who got the M bin, good for you, I hope you enjoy the light more now that you know that. My TK40 is still kicking some serious butt outside both before and after it found out it was a k bin. I think some people in here wouldn't know a good flashlight if it hit em square in the head cause they get so caught up in trivial crap. Unless of course it left a M bin impression on their forehead. People can work as hard as they want to try to figure out how to down this light (or Fenix). All I can say is I'm happy as a clam I have mine. Nuff said about all this nonsense.


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## Ryanrpm (Apr 22, 2009)

I somewhat agree with you Mike. It is true that the difference is very minor and everyone should be thankful for anything they receive in this life.

However...if there is a chance to get the latest in technology...I'd want it.


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## donald2036 (Apr 22, 2009)

Mike89 said:


> This making such fuss over the "m bin" K bin" thing is really annoying in my opinion, especially from some who say they wouldn't have bought the light if they knew they got a "K bin" or are so disappointed now, they can't get a good nights sleep anymore. I just checked mine and it's a k bin. Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. I know what this light does when I take it outside at night and whatever the hell bin it ended up being, didn't change the beam and the throw. I would challenge anyone to show there is any noticable difference outside (not from those stupid wall shots). For the ones who got the M bin, good for you, I hope you enjoy the light more now that you know that. My TK40 is still kicking some serious butt outside both before and after it found out it was a k bin. I think some people in here wouldn't know a good flashlight if it hit em square in the head cause they get so caught up in trivial crap. Unless of course it left a M bin impression on their forehead. People can work as hard as they want to try to figure out how to down this light (or Fenix). All I can say is I'm happy as a clam I have mine. Nuff said about all this nonsense.



What I was trying to blame on was not the light itself. I admitted the TK40 is a good light even it's with K-bin, and I'm very happy with mine as well. 

What I am unhappy with is that Fenix had lied, saying to his customer that they have no plans to upgrade the bin. So, I bought my tk40 after their clarification, and now disappointted to see M-bin is on the market. :tired:


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## flasherByNight (Apr 22, 2009)

so return it...pretty easy fix


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## jirik_cz (Apr 22, 2009)

Don't panic guys , both versions should have at least 630 advertised (bulb) lumens


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## exodus125 (Apr 22, 2009)

donald2036 said:


> Yes, that was an assumption. But what is fact is that Fenix has mixed their TK40 with K & M bin, and that's absolutely unfair to a portion of customer, especially I believe most of the pre-orders are with K-bins, whilst, most of the pre-orders are hardcore Fenix fans. And that I'm just disappointted how Fenix treat their fans.
> 
> You might not probably care about the 16%, but that doesn't mean somebody else don't care.




I totally agree with you. Fenix should treat their customers, especially there more loyal ones, with a little more respect. HOWEVER, I heard a few warn to wait until the "bugs" are fixed. You didn't want to wait, so now you get a K bin with 16% less light, power, or whatever that 16% represents. 

With that said, if anyone wants to sell their tk40 k bin to me at a good price, I would buy it.


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## Da_Pilot (Apr 22, 2009)

I somewhat agree with Mike89 in the sense that its pointless to fuss over something that is not visible to the naked eye. However, like RyanRPM and Donald2036 mentioned, I feel that there is an injustice.

Here is the latest email i received from Fenix about the Bins and I promise this will be my last post regarding this issue.....

**********************************************************
[FONT=宋体]Hello ******
[/FONT]​ [FONT=宋体][/FONT] 
[FONT=宋体]All the TK40 are designed to be 630 lumens, and the price is set accordingly, so it seems not meaningful to check out whether it's"M" or "K" bin MCE LED, they are used mixed. [/FONT]

Hopefully, the TK40 will bring you great surprise during your future use, at the same time, please make sure the correct installation of 8 AA battery, especially the anode and cathode, otherwise, it will cause the battery leakage which do harm to the light. 

Best regards! 
[FONT=宋体] [/FONT]

Sincerely Joyce 
Fenix Service Team 
Website: www.fenixlight.com 
Tel: 86-0755-29631183 
MSN: [email protected]


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## Mike89 (Apr 22, 2009)

> What I am unhappy with is that Fenix had lied,


 
Where is the lie? They seem to be mixed, either kbin or mbin. Probably chose what was available for the quantities of lights made. It would be one thing is all first lights came out with kbin and then they quietly switched to mbin. That doesn't seem to be the case, and doesn't even make sense to do that. If they were going to switch to a more powerful light (I've yet to be convinced one would be superior to the other), they would advertise that, it would make good business sense to do so. They never advertised a specific bin that their light would be or it would have been in the advertisements of the light stats.


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## BrightMan (Apr 22, 2009)

Before ordering, I will ask my retailer if he can check the serial number and send me an M-Bin.
16% are not really important, but I want the best technology for such a professional LED flashlight...


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## bill_n_opus (Apr 22, 2009)

When people want the best for their money ... it's not surprising that some would be annoyed or upset when some people get a "higher" bin than other people given the same product. 

I wouldn't say "lied" though - that's going too far. 

It's like you bought a ferrari ... and the performance is within claimed specs and you're happy with it. 

Then you find out that the same lineup has two different engines with one possessing 45 more horsepower when the claimed rated HP was 425 for said model. 

Naturally, you want the higher rated model. 

However, Fenix did not "lie" since their rated output was within specs. 

It's just kinda weird they didn't take the time to break up the models to reflect either a K or an M bin (+10 dollars, for example)


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## exodus125 (Apr 22, 2009)

BrightMan said:


> Before ordering, I will ask my retailer if he can check the serial number and send me an M-Bin.
> 16% are not really important, but I want the best technology for such a professional LED flashlight...



Seriously, if I'm coughing up 150 for a flashlight I better be getting whatever version is the best.


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## exodus125 (Apr 22, 2009)

bill_n_opus said:


> I wouldn't say "lied" though - that's going too far...However, Fenix did not "lie" since their rated output was within specs.
> 
> It's just kinda weird they didn't take the time to break up the models to reflect either a K or an M bin (+10 dollars, for example)




I disagree, I remember reading on one of the tk40 threads that one of the fenix guys from a light show said something about a newer MCE coming out in a few months or something. 

When I heard the new, better version, was coming out, and then we were all told it was not, I new it was a lie. Now they are mixing up the bins to make everyone happy, but whats happening is its making everyone unhappy. 

Look at everyone scrambling around researching serial #'s to see if its a K bin or an M bin. It's ridiculous. 

Shame on Fenix for playing Russian Roulette with their customers satisfactions.


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## Marko (Apr 22, 2009)

I think there is probably no visible difference with those two BINs, its just the thing that if You know its not the latest model available....? :thinking:

At LED world there will allways be better versions, and I think they try to hide this "new model" coming, since they have some "old units" still in stock? Anyway maybe if someone could test two different BINs side by side, then we'll know the real difference - if there is any?


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## Wattnot (Apr 22, 2009)

I know, we'll do a blindfold test with a K and an M and see if . . . oh wait, that might not work. :devil:

Seriously, this argument could go on indefinitely with no "winner" ever. That's because you're both right. It is human nature to want the best one if all else (like price, especially) is equal. Even the people saying they don't care, deep down in a dark secret place (does a flashaholic have a "dark" place though?) they wish they had the M. But at the same time, I would bet that few if any would be able to tell any difference, even a minor one.


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## Cartman (Apr 22, 2009)

My light is a K-bin and I'm a bit bummed but still happy with the light.

I wouldn't say that I'm angry, but I am surprised by Fenix's break from tradition. Many of the company's lights are sold by bin: TK-11 Q5, TK-11 R2, P2D Rebel 100, P2D Q5, etc. I guess for the TK40, they plan on not breaking down the bin for some reason. Why, I don't know, but yes, I do wish I had an M-bin but that's the breaks.


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## torch_light_fanatic (Apr 22, 2009)

Hello guys, I am new to this forum so I don’t know the ethics and rules yet. If I asked a questions which have been asked before, please forgive me. I have been collecting torch lights for a while now, from totally useless one to 900 lumen one. Just wanna say hi to all. Cheers!!:laughing:


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## donald2036 (Apr 22, 2009)

Marko said:


> I think there is probably no visible difference with those two BINs, its just the thing that if You know its not the latest model available....? :thinking:
> 
> At LED world there will allways be better versions, and I think they try to hide this "new model" coming, since they have some "old units" still in stock? Anyway maybe if someone could test two different BINs side by side, then we'll know the real difference - if there is any?



I don't mind which bin is brighter, it just makes me feel annoyed that I am getting a K, while someone is getting a better one - M, and we all paid the same money. 

There is however a very easy way to solve this problem, they could simply put off or hide up the bin information in their online serial inquiry system, so no one knows which bin they've got, and no one will be disappointted.


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 23, 2009)

Marko said:


> I think there is probably no visible difference with those two BINs, its just the thing that if You know its not the latest model available....? :thinking:



LED binning means something different than just earlier/later models. When semiconductors are produced, there are some presently unavoidable variations in quality. After Intel or AMD have produced a batch of CPUs, for example, they test them. There will be some that don't work at all and will be discarded, some that work only at let's say 2GHz, and some that will work at 3GHz. Depending on the test data (and, let's face it, also business decisions) the processors will be differently marked and sold at different prices.

LED production is similar. Even when the latest technology is used to produce the diodes, some will have a higher output at the same current than others, i.e. they will be more efficient (there are even tint differences). Depending on this efficiency, the LEDs are sorted into bins and sold at different prices. As technology improves, eventually new bins will be introduced and, at the other end of the spectrum, older bins will be discontinued. If everyone only bought LEDs from the latest bin, then a lot of LEDs would have to be discarded right after production, greatly increasing the cost.

Personally I think Fenix is justified in using some k-bin LEDs to keep the price down (mind you, the LED is the single most expensive component of the TK40), but they should have been more upfront about it.


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 23, 2009)

Da_Pilot said:


> All the TK40 are designed to be 630 lumens, and the price is set accordingly, so it seems not meaningful to check out whether it's"M" or "K" bin MCE LED, they are used mixed.



So, IOW, the m-bin flashlights should run a little cooler and have a bit higher runtime. Not such a big deal in my opinion.


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## BabyDoc (Apr 23, 2009)

Wattnot said:


> I know, we'll do a blindfold test with a K and an M and see if . . . oh wait, that might not work. :devil:
> .


 

It would be neat to have everyone of these people who is complaining about their TK40 -K-BIN, to go "blind-folded" and pick the bin they want. By "blind-folded" I mean that they go to their dealer and have the dealer shine a K-BIN and M-BIN on the wall, but not tell them which beam is which. I'll bet when the complainer picks the K-BIN, he will still ***** that it isn't a M-bin.


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## BrightMan (Apr 23, 2009)

It would be interesting to know what the difference is. Is M-bin just brighter or is the current lower? This could easily measured if anyone has access to both types.


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## exodus125 (Apr 23, 2009)

what exactly does that 16% represent? Because if you figure 16% of 630 lumens is 100 lumens. That would make the light 730 lumens. 

I am not sure what the 16% represents and how to figure it into an equation, but wasnt 700+ what the alleged new and improved version of the light was suppose to be?


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## donald2036 (Apr 23, 2009)

Fenix has just removed the bin indication from their online inquiry system, so all will show "MC-E" only now.


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## exodus125 (Apr 23, 2009)

I am telling you, fenix watches this forum. As soon as they saw people complaining about the upgrade, even after fenix said it wasnt going to happen, they started to mix the bins. Then, when they saw people were fussing about the k and m bin, they added that bin search. Now that they see everyone is bickering, they have removed the bin search. 

Why add a bin search if an MCE is an MCE

trying to deceive the customers is what they are doing.


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## Mr_Light (Apr 23, 2009)

After looking up my TK40 Bin, I have the same feeling I had when I read the ingredients on a package of Scrapple.... I wish I hadn't looked :shakehead


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## donald2036 (Apr 23, 2009)

Mr_Light said:


> After looking up my TK40 Bin, I have the same feeling I had when I read the ingredients on a package of Scrapple.... I wish I hadn't looked :shakehead



What's wrong with "Scrapple"?


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## qip (Apr 23, 2009)

well if they are watching..." no parasitic drain please  "


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## MattK (Apr 23, 2009)

Discussions like this are why many companies won't even discuss color/output bins. 

Fenix isn't trying to deceive anyone; LED reels are typically sold as mixed bins and it's much harder to get single batch color/output bin reels. So long as the flashlight operates within the advertised specifications I think it is unfair to tag them as 'deceptive'. It's totally fine and understandable to want the best possible bin. I think the car engine comparison is apt but we're forgetting something here; like car HP these numbers are not absolutes; there is variation in output among single bins of LED's, variations in circuit efficiency/output due to individual component variations, etc etc etc.

I imagine the bin search thing was removed from their website as it clearly was becoming a source of a lot of misplaced angst. As BabyDoc and Wattnot correctly point out above your eyes CANNOT see the difference between the 2 bins. 

There is no 'version 2.' There is no 'upgrade.' This was all a misunderstanding based on a single dealers over-zealous and misunderstood marketing and repitition of this mistake seems to, unfortunately, have given it some creedence to some - sort of like NASA faking the moon landing or aliens in Roswell. It's not a conspiracy. There is no great lie. It's just a good company trying to make a good product and please as many people as possible.


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## dwminer (Apr 23, 2009)

MattK said:


> Discussions like this are why many companies won't even discuss color/output bins.
> 
> Fenix isn't trying to deceive anyone; LED reels are typically sold as mixed bins and it's much harder to get single batch color/output bin reels. So long as the flashlight operates within the advertised specifications I think it is unfair to tag them as 'deceptive'. It's totally fine and understandable to want the best possible bin. I think the car engine comparison is apt but we're forgetting something here; like car HP these numbers are not absolutes; there is variation in output among single bins of LED's, variations in circuit efficiency/output due to individual component variations, etc etc etc.
> 
> ...


 
*WHAT *
*NASA faked the moon landing ?*
Mythbusters proved this. Where have you all been?


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## MattK (Apr 23, 2009)

I saw that ep of Mythbusters - clearly the faking was debunked but then I never doubted it to begin with.


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## Marko (Apr 23, 2009)

exodus125 said:


> Now that they see everyone is bickering, they have removed the bin search.



Its removed now? :huh:

"There is no 'version 2.' There is no 'upgrade.' "

I think there is, and now its a bit too late to deny it: different BINs, just like the guy said on the video earlier. lovecpf


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## exodus125 (Apr 23, 2009)

can anyone verify or clarify what that alleged 16% stands for? would it be 16% more lumens than the k bin?


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## WadeF (Apr 23, 2009)

K-bin, M-bin, as long as it meets the advertised specs, what's the problem? Surefire does this all the time. They may have started with XR-E P4's, then Q2's, Q4's, Q5's, etc. They never told us what they used and as long as it met their min. spec it was fine. 

Some of Fenix's non-premium lights (like the P2D-CE, P3D-CE, etc) started as P4's, but some of the later ones are suspected to be Q2's, Q4's, etc. So unless they advertise it as a premium Q5, or premium R2, they use whatever is available as long as it meets the advertised spec.


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## qip (Apr 23, 2009)

take your tk40 then swich on your L2D to high and thats the extra


dont really care about bins right now the bummer for me is the drain


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## 4sevens (Apr 23, 2009)

The official word from Fenix is that there is not a higher output version. THEY ARE BINNED THE SAME. That dealer mistakenly (hopefully not intentionally) posted bulb lumens and not torch lumens. Though I doubt that it was unintentional as they claimed they had a "2nd version" even though Fenix never told them such a thing. Personally, I think it was a tactic to boost sales. :shrug:

Here is a quote from Fenix on April 6th:_
Hi Perter ,(sic)

I think they may misunderstaood(sic) the information !

The LED theoretical value is 730 LM, but after reflector and other reasons
the brighness(sic) will be affacted(sic) , the final output is 630 lm. There are individual light
differences in brightness too.

If we upgrade the brightness, we will let you know definitely.

Besids(sic) ,sorry for my egnoring(sic) to cc informaton(sic) to you and I will pay more attention to it !

Regards
Mayor _


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## Cartman (Apr 23, 2009)

MattK said:


> Discussions like this are why many companies won't even discuss color/output bins. ... it some creedence to some - sort of like NASA faking the moon landing or aliens in Roswell. It's not a conspiracy. There is no great lie. It's just a good company trying to make a good product and please as many people as possible.



OK, so I understand the TK40 thing and really, while bummed I didn't lottery win with my K bin I'm still quite happy. 

Moon landing: OK with that too.

But you crossed the line with Roswell. I don't believe it. It's like the one man gunman theory and magic bullet. It just doesn't smell right.


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## burntoshine (Apr 23, 2009)

...silliness


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## flasherByNight (Apr 23, 2009)

amusing how easily threads get derailed :sick2:


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## donald2036 (Apr 23, 2009)

Cartman said:


> OK, so I understand the TK40 thing and really, while bummed I didn't lottery win with my K bin I'm still quite happy.
> 
> Moon landing: OK with that too.
> 
> But you crossed the line with Roswell. I don't believe it. It's like the one man gunman theory and magic bullet. It just doesn't smell right.



Oh man, I've just forgotten what bin my TK40 is, how can I check it back? 

I have a vision in my head that it was M.... :thinking:


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 24, 2009)

dwminer said:


> *WHAT *
> *NASA faked the moon landing ?*
> Mythbusters proved this. Where have you all been?



Didn't anyone see Matrix? There is no moon!


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## MattK (Apr 24, 2009)

LOL what did I start?


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## Mike89 (Apr 24, 2009)

Here is an email I received from Fenix regarding the "bin" thing.



> Thank you very much for using Fenix light and your attention to this matter.
> 
> As to the TK40, we are so sorry to hear that there is displeasure between some customers, it's the case that TK40 use the MCE as long as it reach 630 lumens, so it's possible that the LED supplier provide the mixed MCE LED in the TK40. But what most important is that all Fenix TK40 are designed to be 630 lumens, the price is set accordingly, and all of our advertisement is based on it.


 
Maybe this will help put the "Fenix Lied" and "Fenix ripped me off cause I got the K-bin" stuff to rest (but I really doubt it, since some just seem to want to stay disgruntled).


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## Mr Floppy (Apr 24, 2009)

Here is my solution for a diffuser.

It starts off with one of these. Its a drink bottle that my aunt brought over from the USA. Here is a shot of the bottle in the dark with the flash on.







It fits perfectly and here it it without the flash.






Heres a shot from above that kinda shows how it lights up the surrounds






Sorry to take the topic off the binning. All I know is that I was sold something that would do 630 and I'm happily enjoying it


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## exodus125 (Apr 24, 2009)

very nice diffuser, I wonder if its possible to sand down the DOLE logo from it so its all white.


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## bullettproof (Apr 24, 2009)

Well does it really make a difference in Bins??? A K-Bin at 2.8A according to Crees Chart is 646.00 Led Lumens.The M-Bin according to Crees chart at 2.8A is 750.8 Lumens. I dont think you could notice 100 Lumens up close with the naked eye.However I think as the Higher Lux value of the M-Bin takes over at longer ranges say 150 yards I think there would be a noticeable difference and that extra 100 Led Lumens and higher Lux would be seen.

I hate to see so much controversy over this discrepancy.However Fenix has made it available on their sight to see the Specs of each light.People always want the best even if the best is not by very much its just human nature.

Having run different businesses and understanding customers demands.In my Humble opinion I think Fenix should give some sort of Voucher to the people whom received the K-Bin MC-E.We can all say that the product is still with in there specs of advertisement and that there is no difference and that everyone is tickled pink and happy.

Regardless of any ones opinion or concern this has created controversy in regards to this light.Had I been on the Board of Directors for Fenix rest assured I would be doing something to clean the problem up and making sure people were completely Happy. I think in the future they will have other big releases such as they did with the TK40.Are people just going to hold off on there purchases in order to make sure they have the latest and greatest? Well thats still to be determined.....


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## bill_n_opus (Apr 24, 2009)

I'd hate to say it ... but sometimes you cannot please everyone ... I wouldn't be surprised to see someone complain for a voucher - because they got an M bin and would rather have a K bin plus voucher instead. :shakehead


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## 4sevens (Apr 24, 2009)

bill_n_opus said:


> I'd hate to say it ... but sometimes you can please everyone ... I wouldn't be surprised to see someone complain for a voucher - because they got an M bin and would rather have a K bin plus voucher instead. :shakehead


Which happens more often than you'd think! The most unpleasant 
ones are accompanied with threats and suggestions of actions that would 
damage reputation. Such is the nature of business. If all flowers are the 
same if would be a boring garden. did I just say that? huh? :thinking:


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## bodhran (Apr 24, 2009)

Fenix, the dealers, and everyone here knows about the bins. I bought mine based on what Fenix advertised and that's what I recieved. There may be some out there that may be a little better, but I got what I paid for. In the mean time I'm just having a lot of fun with my light. I would like to see more reviews and hear about others experiences with their lights. Of course those outdoor beamshots are alway welcome.... 
I bought a 6 oz. scoop of icecream the other day and noticed that the scoop the guy next to me had may have been a little bigger. Boy...I'll never go to that place again. I don't like to be the one who says enough is enough, but how much more can you say about this subject.


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## bullettproof (Apr 24, 2009)

bodhran said:


> Fenix, the dealers, and everyone here knows about the bins. I bought mine based on what Fenix advertised and that's what I recieved. There may be some out there that may be a little better, but I got what I paid for. In the mean time I'm just having a lot of fun with my light. I would like to see more reviews and hear about others experiences with their lights. Of course those outdoor beamshots are alway welcome....
> I bought a 6 oz. scoop of icecream the other day and noticed that the scoop the guy next to me had may have been a little bigger. Boy...I'll never go to that place again. I don't like to be the one who says enough is enough, but how much more can you say about this subject.


 
LOL


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## Mike89 (Apr 24, 2009)

> In my Humble opinion I think Fenix should give some sort of Voucher to the people whom received the K-Bin MC-E.


 
Why? Fenix never advertised this light as having a specific bin. They advertised with a specified lumen and that's what they produced. I think it's the last thing Fenix should do to give in to these whiners. I'll put my K-bin TK40 up against anyone's M-bin TK40 out in the dark. See if one beam sees something the other doesn't. There are even differences in the same bin, no two LED are exactly alike yet no one is going to notice. But man there are sure a lot of people will ***** about what the eye can't see cause they think they are proving some kind of point and cause they have nothing better to do. The same ones who do this are probably the ones who don't use their flashlights.


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## cuttingedge (Apr 24, 2009)

Maybe Fenix should take a hint from other manufacturers that are open to their customers about all specifications of their lights and in some cases give the customer options when purchasing them.
I think removing the ability for customers, to find out on the website, what Bin is in their light was a big mistake. Sometimes the unknown is worse. They have a great light for which they should be proud. Hiding the information versus allowing customers to know about their light will cause more long term mistrust. It's not just about the lumens.
I have 8 lights and 7 of them are Fenix. I will definitely consider other manufacturers in the future because of their handling of this matter.


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## Mike89 (Apr 24, 2009)

> I will definitely consider other manufacturers in the future because of their handling of this matter.


 
That's funny. What matter? Handled what? Fenix didn't do a thing wrong, they said they would supply X that would do X, then chose what parts and tech would accomplish X and did it. People got X (and a damn fine X I might add) but some then still find some reason to complain about it because of what Fenix used to accomplish X (even though they did exactly what they said they were going to do) and now want to buy from someone else who supplies X. Jeez, can't satisfy some people no matter what you do.


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## bhuber (Apr 24, 2009)

This is a flashlight people!!!!!!

Go and hug your kids, wife, neighbor, dog, ................

Seriously, get a grip!!! Be thankful that you have the means to afford it. 

This thread has become no fun to read because of all the whining. I don't expect it to change any of it, and I don't care if it does. I just think there are more important things to focus on than a stinking flashlight.


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## exodus125 (Apr 24, 2009)

I got a final thought. 

Tomorrow at 11PM eastern standard time, everyone get there tk40 and point it to the moon. Lets join together to see if that American flag is really there.


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## billavi (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm amazed that people are complaining about receiving exactly what they paid for (630 lumens), but no one is complaining that you are warned not to run in Turbo mode for more than 15 minutes. 

To continue with the earlier car metaphor, it's like buying a car that can go 63 miles an hour - and that's the big selling point - 63 MPH. After leaving the dealership you drive at 63 MPH - only to have the car overheat in 15 minutes. You reach into the glove box and read the instructions, which say "You can drive at top speed for about 15 minutes, but then your car may overheat. If it does, shift down and drive at 27 MPH for a little while to let the car cool down. Once it cools down, you can drive at 63 MPH for another 15 minutes."


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## GrnXnham (Apr 25, 2009)

Yeah, I'm curious about the 15 minute thing. I really liked this light until I heard about the 15 minutes max on turbo.

Has anyone kept their TK40 on for more than 15 minutes? Did it feel hot? Is this just a CYA thing for Fenix?

I usually use my flashlights outside on cold nights. Couldn't I use the turbo longer than 15 minutes in colder conditions without it overheating?


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## Mike89 (Apr 25, 2009)

I've had mine on for longer than 15 minutes on Turbo and saw no issues, heat or otherwise. I pay no attention to it. I have also not seen any self discharge with light off either. I'm still on my first set of batteries (plain alkalines), they are lasting a lot longer than I thought they would. I'm waiting for them to get used up so I can try out my new rechargeables.


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## SarcoBlaster (Apr 25, 2009)

GrnXnham said:


> Yeah, I'm curious about the 15 minute thing. I really liked this light until I heard about the 15 minutes max on turbo.
> 
> Has anyone kept their TK40 on for more than 15 minutes? Did it feel hot? Is this just a CYA thing for Fenix?
> 
> I usually use my flashlights outside on cold nights. Couldn't I use the turbo longer than 15 minutes in colder conditions without it overheating?


Take a look at the graph in this post:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2910812&postcount=5

Looks like it was kept on for a solid 2 hours on turbo mode.


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## Sean (Apr 25, 2009)

Thanks for the link to the run-time graph. I missed that before. So it seems that it can run at full for 2 hours. :twothumbs


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 25, 2009)

billavi said:


> I'm amazed that people are complaining about receiving exactly what they paid for (630 lumens), but no one is complaining that you are warned not to run in Turbo mode for more than 15 minutes.



Similar caveats are found in many of Fenix' manuals, for instance they recommend to let the LD20 cool down after 10 minutes on turbo. Nonetheless, people have created runtime graphs leaving the LD20 on turbo until the batteries died with no problem. The LED will age more quickly due to the heat, but I haven't heard any stories of measurable or even visible degradation as the result of such usage in the short to medium term.

By the way, you may have heard of the Bugatti Veyron 1001hp luxury car. When running at full power, the engine will drain the 100l (25 gallons) tank in less than 15 minutes…


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 25, 2009)

GrnXnham said:


> Has anyone kept their TK40 on for more than 15 minutes? Did it feel hot? Is this just a CYA thing for Fenix?
> 
> I usually use my flashlights outside on cold nights. Couldn't I use the turbo longer than 15 minutes in colder conditions without it overheating?



It seems to be CYA. I'm assuming (based on runtimes) that the TK40 turbo generates about four times as much waste heat as the LD20 turbo. However, it's pretty obvious from the size and shape that the TK40 head can dissipate much more than four times the thermal power given the same temperature delta (environment vs. head). Under most environmental conditions, continuous use should be possible.

As you said, environment temperature is a big factor, as is thermal conductivity of the air, and wind. On a cold foggy night, like any other flashlight, the TK40 will run much cooler than on a dry hot night. Even under adverse conditions, however, I think the risk of catastrophic failure is almost zero, because, as someone else mentioned, the TK40 contains a temperature sensor. The flashlight will dim itself before frying itself.


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## cuttingedge (Apr 25, 2009)

Mike89 said:


> That's funny. What matter? Handled what? Fenix didn't do a thing wrong, they said they would supply X that would do X, then chose what parts and tech would accomplish X and did it. People got X (and a damn fine X I might add) but some then still find some reason to complain about it because of what Fenix used to accomplish X (even though they did exactly what they said they were going to do) and now want to buy from someone else who supplies X. Jeez, can't satisfy some people no matter what you do.



What matter? Handled what? Can't you read? I found out I got an M-Bin via their website. Since that time they removed that capability for other customers. I am not complaining about the light itself. It is a great flashlight. I am complaining about the way Fenix handled THIS issue. Hiding from the problem is not the way to provide good customer service. I guess no matter what some people just don't care if they do crap like this, but I do. It's more than the Lumens.


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## jzmtl (Apr 25, 2009)

cuttingedge said:


> What matter? Handled what? Can't you read? I found out I got an M-Bin via their website. Since that time they removed that capability for other customers. I am not complaining about the light itself. It is a great flashlight. I am complaining about the way Fenix handled THIS issue. Hiding from the problem is not the way to provide good customer service. I guess no matter what some people just don't care if they do crap like this, but I do. It's more than the Lumens.



Crap like what, like give you lights that meets its specification? They never promised anybody it's going to be an M bin, why would anybody be pissed if they don't have it?


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## punzel (Apr 25, 2009)

hello
i stopped today at a globetrotter strore to check the serial numbers.

Model: TK40 LED: CREE MC-E Reflector: Orange Peel Reflector Color: black Version of Warranty Card: English Sales Region: Europe Area Sales Country: Germany
following the link an the fenix. there is no m or k after CREE MC-E !
my question is now, which version is it?

thank for helping me.

punzel


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## Sean (Apr 26, 2009)

punzel said:


> hello
> i stopped today at a globetrotter strore to check the serial numbers.
> 
> Model: TK40 LED: CREE MC-E Reflector: Orange Peel Reflector Color: black Version of Warranty Card: English Sales Region: Europe Area Sales Country: Germany
> ...



There doesn't appear to be a way to determine this anymore.


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## Wattnot (Apr 26, 2009)

Sean said:


> There doesn't appear to be a way to determine this anymore.


 
Fenix may find that they are going to have to turn that feature back on because that cat is out of the bag. The way a lot of people are now freaking out over this, turning that off might backfire.


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## flasherByNight (Apr 26, 2009)

Wattnot said:


> Fenix may find that they are going to have to turn that feature back on because that cat is out of the bag. The way a lot of people are now freaking out over this, turning that off might backfire.



I'd tend to agree, I think the subsequent follow up of all this silliness was handled very poorly by Fenix and doesn't speak well to their credibility.

Not to suggest I won't continue to buy their products, however in the future I certainly would not participate in preorders.


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## Mike89 (Apr 26, 2009)

The thread goes on and the whining continues. The whiners will ALWAYS find something to whine about. It's the nature of whiners.

Fenix didn't do anything wrong, yet to the whiners Fenix can do nothing right on this one. To the whiners Fenix loses no matter what they do.

Why don't you whiners just return your TK40s or sell it to a non-whiner. I'm sure somebody will take it off your hands. To the whiners who haven't bought this flashlight, it's their loss. They should not buy anything from Fenix, tell all their other whiner buddies about Fenix's conspiracy to screw all the whiners. Once that's all done and you can finally get a nights sleep (probably still whine in their sleep though), I'm sure they will move on to find something else to whine about. Maybe it will be the next light Fenix produces.

To Fenix. Keep on producing these nice lights. When I take it out at night and turn it on, I'm all smiles and when I see what this light does, there is sure nothing for me to whine about. I got what I paid for.

Lots of techies in this forum. A lot of big babies in here too.


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## f22shift (Apr 26, 2009)

so is it the perceived value is lower with the higher bin mixed in or are ppl mad that they said there wouldnt be a higher bin and there turned out to be?

i dont think a voucher should be given out. if there is a higher bin i think they should just market it as such and charge more. some ppl want the best at whatever cost , some want the best bang for the buck.


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## bodhran (Apr 26, 2009)

I know this has been said before, but Fenix never promised a specific bin. Fenix did promise a 630 lumin flashlight and they delivered. It seems like most here, including myself, are happy with this light. So why all the drama. :shakehead


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## flasherByNight (Apr 27, 2009)

Mike,
I'd suggest reviewing the past few posts and your own.
Your comments are rapidly becoming just as destructive to this thread as those you purport to counter.

Regardless of how people are airing their grievances or to the extent of the problem, there IS a legitimate concern here.

I realize theres an illusion of a mass conspiracy when a FEW people continually loudly voice there discontentment, but that hardly indicates a mass hysteria.

Don't take it so personally.

Anyhow, my 2 bits :shrug:


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## BrightMan (Apr 27, 2009)

If Fenix recommends not to use turbo for longer than 15 minutes, is it really realistic that the LED will have a liftetime of 50,000 hours?? Maybe it will age much more quickly?


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 28, 2009)

BrightMan said:


> If Fenix recommends not to use turbo for longer than 15 minutes, is it really realistic that the LED will have a liftetime of 50,000 hours?? Maybe it will age much more quickly?



Depends on what you mean by lifetime.  Cree says that if the LED is used within the operating parameters, the risk of catastrophic (i.e. sudden) failure is essentially zero. There is a brightness reduction that, IIRC, is roughly exponential (think of a half life). Therefore, it's likely that the TK40's MC-E will still put out _some_ light after 50,000h on turbo.

The 50,000h figure is based on a continuous test of certain XLamps (?) and specifies the lifetime until brightness is down to 70%. It is an extrapolation as by then the test ran "only" for 20,000h. Unfortunately, I can't find the source right now, but I read this somewhere on the Cree website.

Individual MC-E batches are not tested like this. Instead, Cree chooses a "representative sample" and puts them through a set of stress tests. The toughest test seems to be the high temperature test:

Ambient temperature: 85°C (185°F – very hot!)
Forward current: Max permissible according to datasheet (i.e. 700mA)
Runtime: 1008 hours

If the MC-E has less than 85% remaining brightness, the test is considered a failure. But that doesn't tell us how much brightness typically remains. It could be 86% or 98.5%. :shrug:

Sorry for not answering the question…  The bottom line is that Fenix likely doesn't perform lifetime tests at turbo, and the exact parameters Cree uses don't necessarily relate closely to the TK40 turbo, and even then the exact brightness reduction is unclear. Based on the information given above, the lifetime (to 70% brightness) should be at least slightly more than 2,000h. But the TK40 doesn't get that hot (185°F), and even then this is based on the assumption that the LEDs pass the stress test only by a small margin. My own guesstimate is that the lifetime to 70% for the TK40 turbo is 6,000-12,000h at room temperature. Personally, I think by the time a LED flashlight has grown noticeably dimmer, it will still be useful, and better lights will be available anyhow.


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## donald2036 (Apr 28, 2009)

430lm *(M-MCE)* / 4 = 107.5lm *(Q5)*
370lm *(K-MCE)* / 4 = 92.5lm *(Q3)*

Obviously that's a silly move of Fenix to mix their TK40 with K & M bin MC-E, they are just like a Q5 / Q3 equivalent. I don't think anyone would be happy to receive a light with Q3 XR-E, while realise others get a Q5.


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## Ryanrpm (Apr 28, 2009)

donald2036 said:


> 430lm *(M-MCE)* / 4 = 107.5lm *(Q5)*
> 370lm *(K-MCE)* / 4 = 92.5lm *(Q3)*
> 
> Obviously that's a silly move of Fenix to mix their TK40 with K & M bin MC-E, they are just like a Q5 / Q3 equivalent. I don't think anyone would be happy to receive a light with Q3 XR-E, while realise others get a Q5.



Fenix seems to be standing behind the overall output of 630 lumens though.

Perhaps they adjust the driving current a little higher on the K bins to match the output of the M bins.:shrug:


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## jirik_cz (Apr 28, 2009)

MC-E K-bin at 2,8A has 650-750 lumens
MC-E M-bin at 2,8A has 750-850 lumens.

Good K-bin can have 749 lumens and bad M-bin can have 751 lumens...

Fenix TK40 is advertised as 630 lumens.
What was the problem again?


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## wingnutLP (Apr 28, 2009)




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## shane45_1911 (Apr 28, 2009)

I am not as "concerned" about K vs. M, as I am about the parasitic drain.

I have searched, but could not find any definitive answer...

Is this drain real, and do I really have to unscrew the bezel 2.5 turns to prevent it?!?!?


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## jds1 (Apr 28, 2009)

From a long time lurker and first time poster, this is the best $150 that I've spent on a flashlight in a long time. I can't believe what this light does with the 13 lumen low setting, and the  factor on turbo is off the charts. I don't know (or care) what bin my light is... this thing rocks!

Jeff


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## exodus125 (Apr 28, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> MC-E K-bin at 2,8A has 650-750 lumens
> MC-E M-bin at 2,8A has 750-850 lumens.
> 
> Good K-bin can have 749 lumens and bad M-bin can have 751 lumens...
> ...



good point.


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## Sean (Apr 28, 2009)

jds1 said:


> From a long time lurker and first time poster, this is the best $150 that I've spent on a flashlight in a long time. I can't believe what this light does with the 13 lumen low setting, and the  factor on turbo is off the charts. I don't know (or care) what bin my light is... this thing rocks!
> 
> Jeff



:welcome:

TK40 seems to be a great MC-E light. Can't believe it can run 2 hours on high!


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## exodus125 (Apr 28, 2009)

I cant wait until the TK50 comes out.


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## HKJ (Apr 28, 2009)

shane45_1911 said:


> I am not as "concerned" about K vs. M, as I am about the parasitic drain.
> 
> I have searched, but could not find any definitive answer...
> 
> Is this drain real, and do I really have to unscrew the bezel 2.5 turns to prevent it?!?!?



Yes, it is real and will drain you batteries in about a year.


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## shane45_1911 (Apr 28, 2009)

HKJ said:


> Yes, it is real and will drain you batteries in about a year.


 
Can anyone tell me what is draining the batteries? I mean, none of my other lights suggest locking-out to prevent battery drain. What makes this light different?


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## HKJ (Apr 28, 2009)

shane45_1911 said:


> Can anyone tell me what is draining the batteries? I mean, none of my other lights suggest locking-out to prevent battery drain. What makes this light different?



The switch does not directly control power, but only sends a signal to a microprocessor and the microprocessor needs power all the time or it could not detect switch presses.

It is not the only ligth with standby current, some of the best known with a drain is NiteCore and Zebralight, but there are others. The drain varies from 0.5 year for the worst to 100 years for the best (and the 100 years is a theoretical number, the batteries can not last that long, even without a drain).


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## burntoshine (Apr 28, 2009)

jds1 said:


> this is the best $150 that I've spent on a flashlight in a long time. I can't believe what this light does with the 13 lumen low setting, and the  factor on turbo is off the charts. I don't know (or care) what bin my light is... this thing rocks!
> 
> Jeff



amen


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## Jackal-Head (Apr 29, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> Good K-bin can have 749 lumens and bad M-bin can have 751 lumens...
> 
> Fenix TK40 is advertised as 630 lumens.
> What was the problem again?



Thanks. I was about to write something similar only then I forgot about it and didn't. 

Some people seem to take the word bin too literally. The LEDs aren't thrown into large bins, they are sorted according to their output in some way and only Cree knows exactly how they do it. A bin is not a big truck that you just dump something on. :devil:

When a flashlight manufacturer such as Fenix needs, for instance, 5000 MC-Es that can output 730 emitter lumens @4x700mA, they probably don't order them by bin. Many of the K-bins would produce too little light, and M-bins may be too scarce or expensive. I bet they simply make a deal concerning MC-Es with 730+ emitter lumens and Cree delivers some good K-bin and some M-bin LEDs that all fulfill the requirement. The binning at this point becomes largely irrelevant, obviously.

Of course, none of what we said will stop those who want to complain from complaining. There's always a fly in the ointment if you're searching hard enough. Personally, I think Fenix should have used only 800+ lumens LEDs and given the TK40s away for free in a set that also includes 48 eneloops, complete outdoor gear by Jack Wolfskin, and a collection of fine wines. :nana:


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## Kilovolt (Apr 29, 2009)

Jackal-Head said:


> Personally, I think Fenix should have used only 800+ lumens LEDs and given the TK40s away for free in a set that also includes 48 eneloops, complete outdoor gear by Jack Wolfskin, and a collection of fine wines. :nana:


 

What!?!?!? No free Omega Speedmaster Moon Watch????

Under these unacceptable conditions I will NEVER (I said NEVER) buy a Fenix light. :naughty::thumbsdow:naughty::devil:


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## jimmy1970 (Apr 30, 2009)

I just received my new TK40... What can I say apart from WOW!!! Nice warm tint also. Probably the best tint LED I have ever seen - and I've seen a few!!

It's a brick, but compared with a 2D Maglite, it's small & lightweight!!

Comparing the 2D LED and the TK40 purely for a size/weight/output comparison, it makes the Maglite look like an imposter!! 

Maglite is in big trouble with this beast now in the system!! If only Fenix would bring down the price a bit, I would buy more! One for the boat, one for the car/s etc.

Good work Fenix! I don't know which Bin LED I've got and I can honestly say I don't care.

Happy camper here folks.

James....


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## flasherByNight (Apr 30, 2009)

How do you guys hold this thing?
Do you turn it on tactical style, then move your hand up to the head (maglite style?)...or is light enough to HOLD with thumb on clickie?


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## mikekoz (Apr 30, 2009)

I am interested in this light myself because it is different. A while back I was looking for a 500+ lumen light, but most ran on two 18650 cells, and all the ones I looked at were above what I would pay for a flashlight. This light however, running on 8 AA cells, is what I would call inovative! While 8 cells may seem a bit "messy" , here we have an ultrabright light that does NOT run on any type of lithium battery, is super bright, and has great runtime. I can buy a light that is just as bright, if not brighter than most of what I was looking at before, and it will use cells that are safer, and easier to come by.:twothumbs. 

This whole discussion about the bins, while somewhat interesting, is getting a bit out of hand. What somebody needs to do is take one that has the K bin, and one that has the M bin, and compare them in person, side by side, and see what the difference is. If you can not see the difference, forget the specs, there is none. I remember when I was into audio equipment years ago and everybody was touting gold plated cables. They would throw out all this techo talk and specifications, but most of the time, to the ear, there was no difference. 

Mike


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## jimmy1970 (Apr 30, 2009)

mikekoz said:


> I am interested in this light myself because it is different. A while back I was looking for a 500+ lumen light, but most ran on two 18650 cells, and all the ones I looked at were above what I would pay for a flashlight. This light however, running on 8 AA cells, is what I would call inovative! While 8 cells may seem a bit "messy" , here we have an ultrabright light that does NOT run on any type of lithium battery, is super bright, and has great runtime. I can buy a light that is just as bright, if not brighter than most of what I was looking at before, and it will use cells that are safer, and easier to come by.:twothumbs.
> 
> This whole discussion about the bins, while somewhat interesting, is getting a bit out of hand. What somebody needs to do is take one that has the K bin, and one that has the M bin, and compare them in person, side by side, and see what the difference is. If you can not see the difference, forget the specs, there is none. I remember when I was into audio equipment years ago and everybody was touting gold plated cables. They would throw out all this techo talk and specifications, but most of the time, to the ear, there was no difference.
> 
> Mike


 Well said!

James....


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## burntoshine (May 1, 2009)

flasherByNight said:


> How do you guys hold this thing?
> Do you turn it on tactical style, then move your hand up to the head (maglite style?)...or is light enough to HOLD with thumb on clickie?



it feels evenly weighted and comfortable either way you hold it. that's another thing that's great about this light.


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## shane45_1911 (May 1, 2009)

My Biggest complaint?

The parasitic battery drain that requires you to turn the bezel 2.5 turns for lockout.

I would have prefered a system that had no drain, or - if the drain could not be eliminated - at least make the lockout ergonomics reasonable. 2.5 turns of the bezel is ridiculous and inconvenient.


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## MiniLux (May 1, 2009)

shane45_1911 said:


> My Biggest complaint?
> 
> The parasitic battery drain that requires you to turn the bezel 2.5 turns for lockout.
> 
> I would have prefered a system that had no drain, or - if the drain could not be eliminated - at least make the lockout ergonomics reasonable. 2.5 turns of the bezel is ridiculous and inconvenient.


 
My personal impression is that '2.5 turns' is another sorta urban legend.
When I unscrew the tailcap of my TK40 a quarter of a turn, it doesn't light up anymore --> no contact = no parasitic drain 

Maybe there will be some variations due to mechanical issues, e.g. some lights would require half or 3/4 of a turn. But 2.5 turns seems to be way out of reality.

MiniLux


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## shane45_1911 (May 1, 2009)

Are we talking bezel (front) or tailcap? Instructions say to turn the front bezel to avoid drain.

I turn my light on and start unscrewing the bezel, and it takes just short of 2.5 turns before the light turns off. That's about 2 turns too many, IMO.

Although unscrewing the tailcap a half turn or so, is a much more appealing option.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2009)

MiniLux said:


> My personal impression is that '2.5 turns' is another sorta urban legend.
> When I unscrew the tailcap of my TK40 a quarter of a turn, it doesn't light up anymore --> no contact = no parasitic drain
> 
> Maybe there will be some variations due to mechanical issues, e.g. some lights would require half or 3/4 of a turn. But 2.5 turns seems to be way out of reality.
> ...


 
When I unscrew the tailcap of my TK40 by two full turns it will still light up. 

It requires _exactly 2.5 turns _before it is locked out. :shrug:

If you look at the battery holder you notice that the central positive spring contact is longer by approx 2 mm than the four negative clips surrounding it. I understand that while you unscrew the tailcap the central spring pushes out the battery holder and that at a certain point the negative clips lose contact with the PCB thus locking out the light. I think that the difference in length between positive and negative springs is the key factor.


@shane: I just noticed your comment. Although I believe I had carefully read the instructions I missed the indication to loose the head instead of the tailcap as usual in all other lights. After trying it out I can confirm that my TK40 still requires 2.5 turns but at least no o-ring is now visible. Thanks for the tip.


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## MiniLux (May 1, 2009)

shane45_1911 said:


> Are we talking bezel (front) or tailcap? Instructions say to turn the front bezel to avoid drain.
> 
> I turn my light on and start unscrewing the bezel, and it takes just short of 2.5 turns before the light turns off. That's about 2 turns too many, IMO.


 
On my TK40 same for front bezel and tailcap: about a quarter turn and it shuts off :naughty:

Do you have a 1st or 2nd delivery batch TK40?
Mine is 2nd batch (from 4x7s).

MiniLux


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## shane45_1911 (May 1, 2009)

MiniLux said:


> Do you have a 1st or 2nd delivery batch TK40?
> Mine is 2nd batch (from 4x7s).


 
First batch - and I just checked and both the bezel AND the tailcap take 2.5 turns until lockout. GRRRRR....


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## MiniLux (May 1, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> I think that the difference in length between positive and negative springs is the key factor.


 
Seems logical to me. So adjusting the springs might be the way to go :thumbsup:

Edit: just checked the springs on mine: the difference is about the double of yours ... 4mm.

MiniLux


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## shane45_1911 (May 1, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> @shane: I just noticed your comment. Although I believe I had carefully read the instructions I missed the indication to loose the head instead of the tailcap as usual in all other lights. After trying it out I can confirm that my TK40 still requires 2.5 turns but at least no o-ring is now visible. Thanks for the tip.


 
No worries. 

I would have been content unscrewing EITHER end to achieve lockout, if it were less than 2.5 turns. Sadly, it is not...(in my case).


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2009)

I have just slightly bent inwards the four clips and extended a bit the coil spring by hand and now 2 turns are enough. 

This is the way to go.


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## shane45_1911 (May 1, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> This is the way to go.


 
I'll try it after work today.

But 2 full turns is not going to make me happy either, I suspect. :shakehead


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2009)

Down to one head turn to lockout. 

Be careful not to break any negative contact clip while bending them. The operation can be safely done by hand though.


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## HKJ (May 1, 2009)

I do not know why people takes this standby drain so serious, as long as the light is used at regular intervals, and batteries recharged a couple of times each year, it is no issue. Only when storing the light for months, and not planning on recharging, is the lockout necessary.


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## Kilovolt (May 1, 2009)

HKJ said:


> I do not know why people takes this standby drain so serious, as long as the light is used at regular intervals, and batteries recharged a couple of times each year, it is no issue. Only when storing the light for months, and not planning on recharging, is the lockout necessary.


 
You are right. Fenix however talks of 'if unused for a couple of days' and this makes people nervous. 

I have read several different figures as to drain current, can you please confirm what is the most reliable value.


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## HKJ (May 1, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> You are right. Fenix however talks of 'if unused for a couple of days' and this makes people nervous.
> 
> I have read several different figures as to drain current, can you please confirm what is the most reliable value.



My own measurement is around 0.4 mA, but it can probably change with humidity and storage temperature. And remember that your have two strings of batteries in parallel, i.e. double mAh.


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## burntoshine (May 1, 2009)

my tk40 locks out at exactly one full turn (360 degrees or 12 o'clock to 12 o'clock) on the bezel and a little under a full turn on the tail cap. i had the first batch. the parasitic drain isn't such a big deal to me. it's such a slow drain - half a year, right? i keep my tk40 on my nightstand locked out at the bezel with primaries and when i take the light out to use it, i bring my 16 rechargeables.

great light

no worries


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## shane45_1911 (May 1, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> Down to one head turn to lockout.


 
I'm getting happier... :thumbsup:


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## Mr Floppy (May 4, 2009)

flasherByNight said:


> How do you guys hold this thing?
> Do you turn it on tactical style, then move your hand up to the head (maglite style?)...or is light enough to HOLD with thumb on clickie?



Like a light sabre!

Its light enough for me to hold with the thumb on the clickie. I will spin it around the palm to hold it in regular fashion. I can do it one handed but its better if you attach a lanyard or something. Infact you can spin and switch in one motion if you use the fore finger to switch it on.

The clickie can be easily switched on with the pinky finger too. If your fingers are long enough, you should be able to use the second knuckle of the pinky to switch it on. Thats the way I switch it on left handed as my left pinky is not as dextrous as the right. I cant double click with my left either.


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## vanoord (May 5, 2009)

Given I'm using my TK40 on rechargeables, I'm not fussed about the power drain - the batteries get topped up before I take the torch out.


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## Mr_Light (May 5, 2009)

Sorry to interrupt the obsessing over the parasitic drain...., but how about advocating for some alternative battery holders for the TK40. There is plenty of room to have an alternative 2 - 18650 (parallel) holder or maybe 3 - 18650! I'm assuming a driver that runs fine with 4 - NiMH cells in series should work fine with 18650s in parallel? How about 4 C cells in series? It would be nice to have some other battery options since there is plenty of room inside the TK40 to play around with. I bet creative CPF members could create some easily.


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## Mike89 (May 5, 2009)

I don't know what's up with this "parasitic drain" stuff. I have not seen this happen at all. I've had my TK40 over a month now, use it everyday, still on first set of batteries, still seems as bright as it was the first time I turned it on. I'm actually quite pleased how long these batteries are lasting. I think all this drain stuff is much to do about nothing.


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## HKJ (May 5, 2009)

Mike89 said:


> I don't know what's up with this "parasitic drain" stuff. I have not seen this happen at all. I've had my TK40 over a month now, use it everyday, still on first set of batteries, still seems as bright as it was the first time I turned it on. I think all this drain stuff is much to do about nothing.



The standby drain will drain the batteries in about a year. I.e. if you use the TK40 it is no problem, but if you want to store it for months, you need to use loosen the head.


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## Mike89 (May 5, 2009)

> The standby drain will drain the batteries in about a year


 
Interesting statement considering this light has only been out a month. Gonna take awhile for someone to verify that isn't it? Someone going to purposely put batteries in one and put it on the shelf for a year to find out if this is true? Might as well do it with all the other flashlights then. I'm purposely trying to sound rediculous as I think this so called issue is. I wonder how any flashlight is going to fare with batteries sitting in it for a year. Not a good practice to begin with. Again, I think this is much to do about nothing. I am no more concerned about this as I would be with any other flashlight I own. If I was concerned about this and was storing the light or not going to use it for some time, rather than unscrew the cap, I would just take the batteries out (as I would for any of my lights).


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## HKJ (May 5, 2009)

Mike89 said:


> Interesting statement considering this light has only been out a month. Gonna take awhile for someone to verify that isn't it?



In fact it takes less than five minutes to verify. Rechargeable batteries are marked with capacity and it is very easy to measure how much current the light drains. A simple division and you got the number of hours the batteries will last with the measured current drain, a few more divisions and you get days and years the batteries will last (Not counting any self drain in the batteries).

These kind of estimates can have rather large tolerances, because the standby drain can change with the storage conditions. But the same kind of tolerances will apply to a actual test.


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## A/V Dude (May 5, 2009)

Mike89 said:


> Interesting statement considering this light has only been out a month. Gonna take awhile for someone to verify that isn't it? Someone going to purposely put batteries in one and put it on the shelf for a year to find out if this is true? Might as well do it with all the other flashlights then. I'm purposely trying to sound rediculous as this notion is. I wonder how any flashlight is going to fare with batteries sitting in it for a year. Not a good practice to begin with. Again, much to do about nothing.


 
You forgort to include the last part of his quote.



HKJ said:


> The standby drain will drain the batteries in about a year. I.e. if you use the TK40 it is no problem, but if you want to store it for months, you need to use loosen the head.


 
It does not sound to me like he is suggesting leaving the batts in for a year. He states if you need to leave the batts. in for an extended period loosen the tail cap to stop parasidic drain.

Lighten up Dude.:wave:


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## shane45_1911 (May 5, 2009)

The "issue" with this drain - at least for me - is as follows...

I have lots of flashlights. I like the security of knowing they are there when I need them. What I don't like, is knowing that I have lithium batteries with an indicated shelf life of 10+ years, which now have their life expectancy reduced by 90% because I choose to keep them in a device which drains them. 

I don't think this issue is too far "out there", as I think that many other flashlight owners have dedicated "emergency' lights that never get used - and are there on standby for when they are required. And when that time DOES come, I want that device to be fully functional - without having to worry about finding batteries to put in, or turning the the bezel 2.5 times. I want to push a button, and have my light work NOW - when I most likely need it instantly.

I bought the TK40 to be my "never get used, but always ready" light. And taking batteries out defeats that purpose, and turning a bezel 2.5 times from lockout is absurdly poor engineering. IMO, of course.


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## Mike89 (May 5, 2009)

> I bought the TK 40 to be my "never get used, but always ready" light. And taking batteries out defeats that purpose, and turning a bezel 2.5 times from lockout is absurdly poor engineering. IMO, of course.


 
How about just using it as usual and see how it turns out in year from now instead of being bummed out about something that hasn't happened yet? I think a lot of conclusions are being made prematurely on this. I'm not doing anything with this light differently than I do with my others. I will not do this twist head nonsense, or this 15 minute Turbo (which I think both of these are Fenix just being way over cautious) and if store the light for any length of time, I will take the batteries out. I will wager a year from now there will be no difference between this light and my other lights regarding this issue. So far this light has been everything I've always wanted in a light and it's the best flashlight purchase I have made to date. I'm not going to sit and try to find something wrong with it. I have better things to do like enjoying the light and it's what I will keep doing.

Curious why someone would buy this light to be a "never get used" light. Myself I woudn't spend this kind of money for this kind of a light if I wasn't going to use it. This has become my #1 light, I need nothing else. My other lights are now for indoor close up stuff only. This light is too good to not be used.


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## f22shift (May 5, 2009)

yeah doesnt seem to fit your purpose but if you dismiss all the small drain lights you'll miss out on some good ones.


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## shane45_1911 (May 5, 2009)

f22shift said:


> yeah doesnt seem to fit your purpose


 
It actually suits my requirements very nicely - for the most part. I have many other, smaller, handier lights that I will use/EDC if I need a light for random, day-to-day, non-urgent situations.

When SHTF however, I need a light that is a bit more extreme than the Photon Microlight that is in my pocket. 

And when the SHTF, I don't want to be looking for or installing batteries, or worrying that my batteries are dead, or twisting bezels. 

Simple, really...


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## jimmy1970 (May 5, 2009)

Mike89 said:


> This has become my #1 light, I need nothing else. My other lights are now for indoor close up stuff only. This light is too good to not be used.


 
I agree! The performance of this light particularly on turbo is unbelievable. I am also using the low & medium settings more than I thought for close up use. Having these lower settings allows the light to be used anywhere, not just outside looking at trees 300 metres away! 

You don't mind the size and weight when you see its' performance - it definately pulls it's weight. Put it up against and 2D / 3D maglite and the mag definately is dead weight!!

James...


----------



## bhuber (May 5, 2009)

shane45_1911 said:


> The "issue" with this drain - at least for me - is as follows...
> 
> I have lots of flashlights. I like the security of knowing they are there when I need them. What I don't like, is knowing that I have lithium batteries with an indicated shelf life of 10+ years, which now have their life expectancy reduced by 90% because I choose to keep them in a device which drains them.
> 
> ...




I had a Maglight 3D before I ever found this forum. I think I bought it 20+ years ago. I always worked and was my go to light. I used it for camping and anything I needed a flashlight for. One day I went to use it and it didn't work. I opened it up and it was full of crud and the batteries had leaked everywhere. Remember, I was an everyday user. I didn't know anything about lithium battries. I only knew about AAA, AA, C, D, 9V, button and car batteries. 

I didn't learn about Lithium lights until I bought my streamlight stinger, and went through one set of batteries and never used it again because the batteries were so expensive and didn't last very long. I have some Lithium battery powered lights, but prefer AA power. 

I've had the TK40 since a few days after it reached dealers hands. I don't bother "locking it out" I just let it as ism and it's always with me where ever I go. I didn't buy the light to sit there for years and hope for a chance to use it. I bought it to use it every chance I get. I doubt there is any light that you can let sit there for years and guarantee that it is going to work. Chances are that it will, but there is no guarantee. I don't know of any light manufacturer that makes this claim. 

If you're going to keep a light as a SHTF light, I would recommend checking it's functionality regularly and replacing the batteries every 6 months. I always have 8 fresh cells with me at all times. When I load them, I will immediately buy 8 replacements. I don't use rechargeables, just duracell copper tops.

On a side note, my wife's Grandfather kept a loaded 12 guage in his living room just in case for many years. It was his SHTF gun. When he passed away, my Father-in-law asked me if I wanted it. Being a gun nut I said heck yeah! I checked it, and to my suprise, there was one in the pipe and it was ready to go!! We took it to a safe place and pulled the trigger! NOTHIGN! This was his SHTF GUN!! It had sat there for many years and the primer went bad on the shell. If he would have fired it periodically, there wouldn't have been an issue. I'm glad he never needed to use it.


----------



## Cataract (May 11, 2009)

Despite all the complaining I see here, 
and impatiently waiting... 
I think there is too much fuss on something that would probably not even be visible about this bin issue.... I have various flashlights from different bins and can barely see a color difference in most cases... 
For the other issues, these really seem to be isolated events. 

I studied electronics, so here are my impressions from reading this thread:

The uneven battery discharge thing is most likely due to the fact that, considering how much power this thing uses, the very first batteries (or sometimes last) are likely to discharge faster at first. This should regulate as the front batteries get weaker. I don't recommend cycling batteries around, since that would probably use up batteries for nothing. 

For the parasitic discharge, this is most likely due to two factors (if I ignore the main one explained last):
1-memory function to recall the last power setting needs voltage to be active (I could be wrong, but to test this yourself, does your flashlight recall if you remove the batteries? If yes, then I'm wrong and this is awesome!)

2- The fact that the batteries will not discharge evenly (because of high current demand from the regulator) combined with the fact that some of the batteries are in parallel, will cause the batteries with more juice in them to discharge in the weaker batteries. This will not actually recharge the weaker batteries, or only very little. There should be not "watchdog" signal observing the status of the switch, this is not practical and needs specific programming, making the circuits bigger, because an internal clock would be needed at this point, discharging the batteries even faster. The switch most likely is used to send a pulse signal to the circuits which then switches functions. 

3- READ THIS CAREFULLY: Any batteries left in contact with each other for an extended period of time _will_ discharge even if there is no circuit or contact on the opposite pole of either of the batteries and even if the same poles are in contact (negative-negative or vice-versa). This is why any manufacturer will recommend removing batteries in any electronic device if not in use for a while. This is also true for loose batteries in a drawer and is the main reason airlines ask to have any spare batteries wrapped even if they are in your luggage. Most batteries that leak do so exactly for this reason, as discharging in this manner can force one or more of the batteries to become unbalanced (like forcing a charge in the wrong end) and therefore become unstable. I wouldn't think this can actually cause an explosion, but starting a fire, even if extremely, extremely rare, is a possibility, if the acid can leak onto fabrics (or mix with your TNT-based shampoo they had you so carefully put in bottles and baggies)

I hope I haven't bored anyone with this...


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## Agent WD-40 (May 13, 2009)

rizky_p said:


> ah finally i can imagine how big it is, thanks.
> 
> Just wondering how is it compared to Mag P7 using stippled standard reflector compared to TK40 in throw performance.
> 
> (still considering tk40 but i have Mag-P7 driven at 3.5Amps)


I'm wondering the same. I can't find anywhere where the TK40 was compared to a P7 Mag with an OP reflector.

One of these is going to be my next setup. Just cannot decide.


----------



## hotlight (May 16, 2009)

started a new thread with my questions


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## exodus125 (May 17, 2009)

have been able to play around with the light and it surpassed my expectations. I was very iffy about getting one, but I picked one up slightly used via a trade. The spill and spot light on the turbo mode is indescribable. Its like your walking around with a headlight from a sports car. Incredible what flashlights can do these days.


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## alexdiver (May 17, 2009)

ive been waitingv for mine since april 10 , from fenixtactical.com i pre ordered it, its suppose too ship out monday may 18 finally i hope they wont push back the date again, anybody in close contact with the manufacturer, are they shipping out new batches ??


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## exodus125 (May 19, 2009)

when I have some time I will do some kind of review, but here are some things I like, don't like, and didn't expect:

likes:
*overall pretty well built

*light is bright, spill is incredible (this is a big selling point) 

*multi levels of output (it has a nice low, a nice med, a nice high, and a nice turbo. This is the biggest selling point) 

*the memory of the last setting is nice.

* runs on AA batteries and can even run on 4 AA's if needed. 

dislikes: 
*cheap clear box, I would have preferred some sort of nylon holster for the light, even something like the holsters that come with the aa lights they sell, at least something to protect the light from scratches a little better. 

*the shoulder strap that comes with the light, although a good idea, doesn't do it for me, I honestly do not trust that strap to hold that flashlight, I would be scared to run with that light while I had it hanging from the strap. A thicker strap with sturdier material might have been better. The strap itself is not THAT bad, but the little piece that goes around the head of the light is thin. It is basically like they got the cheap lanyard that comes with their other AA lights and made it a little bigger. Still not antiquate. I would rather Fenix lower the price a bit and not include any cheaply made accessories so I can use the savings to get a good holster or sheath for it. This isnt that big of a deal though since you could use almost any shoulder strap (from a gun or duffle bag) as an upgrade. a loop fashioned out of paracord would be a little more secure than the black thin string that comes with the light. 

*battery holder seems a little cheap. The batteries don't stay in place too well and if you look at them the wrong way while the pack is out of the flashlight they might fly out of the pack. It almost seems like they slapped something together last minute. Also all the metal clips hanging out everywhere, the thing looks like a cheese grater or something, too many parts to break off, Id hate to find out what would happen if you drop that battery holder with or without batteries in it. 

*the alleged parasitic drain. Don't really know how that works or how much it really is, but the fact that the instructions tell you to lock out the light if your not going to be using it for a few months is a little ridiculous. 

*the "dont run the light for more than 15 min on turbo" is ridiculous too. Don't state the light can run 2hrs on turbo and then in the instructions put it can only run for 15 min at a time. 

didn't expect: 

* Didn't expect the light to be that small. I had seen the comparison pictures, but I was expecting something along the lines of a 2d Mag. The light is significantly smaller than a 2d mag. 

* Didn't expect it to be that heavy, but then again, its so small carrying 2d batteries that it seems real heavy. 


I don't regret buying it, this is a great light and the fact that it runs on AA batteries is great (for me at least). It is bright, the output levels are very useful, you don't want to be using 700 lumens to look for something inside a backpack, so the light is very versatile. These are my 2 cents anyways, Overall a great buy I'd say. I am still wondering what bin it is, who knows, my gut tells me its a K bin, this could have been one of the dislikes as well.


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## Mr Floppy (May 19, 2009)

exodus125 said:


> *battery holder seems a little cheap. The batteries don't stay in place too well and if you look at them the wrong way while the pack is out of the flashlight they might fly out of the pack. It almost seems like they slapped something together last minute. Also all the metal clips hanging out everywhere, the thing looks like a cheese grater or something, too many parts to break off, Id hate to find out what would happen if you drop that battery holder with or without batteries in it.


I cant agree with you on this point. I think the batteryholder is quite well made. I had doubts before hand but I'm rather impressed by it now.



exodus125 said:


> *the "dont run the light for more than 15 min on turbo" is ridiculous too. Don't state the light can run 2hrs on turbo and then in the instructions put it can only run for 15 min at a time.


This is rather ridiculous but they did say "The lights flashlights automatic overheating protection may cause the light to flicker during prolonged running in a hot environment". I haven't set off the overheating protection yet even though I've run this thing for long periods. 



exodus125 said:


> my gut tells me its a K bin, this could have been one of the dislikes as well.


my gut just grumbles, especially after a vindaloo.


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## chanjyj (May 19, 2009)

Anyone tried running it for more than 15mins on turbo?


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## exodus125 (May 19, 2009)

Mr Floppy said:


> I cant agree with you on this point. I think the batteryholder is quite well made. I had doubts before hand but I'm rather impressed by it now.
> 
> Just my opinion, If you drop it I think it would break. Id prefer an mdocod or fivemega looking adapter in there.


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## Mr Floppy (May 19, 2009)

chanjyj said:


> Anyone tried running it for more than 15mins on turbo?


yes, lots of times. Outdoors mainly and its around 7 degrees celcius at night. 

The warmest ambient temperature I'd say I ran this at was 17 degrees. It was at a barbeque and the light was mounted about 4 metres above the ground in a tree.


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## chanjyj (May 19, 2009)

Mr Floppy said:


> yes, lots of times. Outdoors mainly and its around 7 degrees celcius at night.
> 
> The warmest ambient temperature I'd say I ran this at was 17 degrees. It was at a barbeque and the light was mounted about 4 metres above the ground in a tree.



Now if only it ran on 18650's and looked a tad tougher (It looks like it'll break with 1 drop) I'd be a happy guy.

On a sidenote I live in a country that has daily temperatures of 31 C so I'm not too sure how the TK40 will perform on turbo mode there.


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## jirik_cz (May 19, 2009)

I've done runtime tests with many SSC P7/Cree MC-E flashlights and they all get quite hot in a room without an air flow.

But they all stay reasonably warm during a walk outdoors and you can use the highest setting as long as you want.


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## The_Viking (May 19, 2009)

This light is just awesome! So versatile. I was out in the woods yesterday near midnight and walking around. Checking out the closest surroundings you really just need "level 2" in complete dark to get a nice view - "level 3" to take a nice look deep into the woods. There are long small tracks in these woods for running and it was great fun to put on turbo and realize that youre holding the power of AT LEAST ONE car light on full thrust in your hand... really great for my paranoid mind oo: "what if someone/something follows me from a far distance... I think I better turn on my 630 lumen and check... ah.. I AM alone" :thumbsup: (except for the birds who got really annoyed, always happen when I turn on a LED light in the woods at night.. probably half a sleep and suddenly bright light :tired:) ! 

The only thing I miss from some perfect point of view is some trick with the button to go back AND forth or maybe a reset-button that switches to low mode... but the nice "digital" feel on the button and the quick operation compensates for that and its a nice idea with a memory-function for each level!

EDIT and OT: Someone with knowldge of animals and LED-lights: How come birds get really pissed off by LED light (especially the almost fearless DUCKS around here) and on the opposite side a "close encounter" with a MINK (I was like 5 feet away from it) one time gave the insight the the mink was not at all impressed with my Fenix T1 on turbo... it stared some seconds into the light and like "huh.. Fenix T1, 225 lumen... not impressed!" :thumbsdow and calmly went on to build its nest or whatever it was doing in that fallen tree. You were wondering about that mink and why it didnt fear ME... well, animals are very used to people around here.. simple as that.. though I am surprised that it didnt run away as I was so close to it.


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## Mr Floppy (May 20, 2009)

chanjyj said:


> On a sidenote I live in a country that has daily temperatures of 31 C so I'm not too sure how the TK40 will perform on turbo mode there.


Well, you'll probably be using the torch at night but singapore isnt exactly cold at night either. I think airflow is the most important thing. I had the torch on last night in a 22 degrees celcius room for 2 hours. It did get warm but not skin blistering hot. The reflectors were just warm. The fins seem warmer. Will try it again tonight. Not that it'll prove much but I have a IR thermometer that I borrowed.


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## alexdiver (May 20, 2009)

alexdiver said:


> ive been waitingv for mine since april 10 , from fenixtactical.com i pre ordered it, its suppose too ship out monday may 18 finally i hope they wont push back the date again, anybody in close contact with the manufacturer, are they shipping out new batches ??




date pushed back to may 29th  fenix is having trouble sourcing mc-e's supposedly  this sucks i cant wait for this thing !!!


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## woodrow (May 30, 2009)

HKJ said:


> Yes, it is real and will drain you batteries in about a year.


 
THANK YOU!!! HKJ! 

I sold my TK40 becuse while I LOVED its beam, I really did not like the weight of the light with nimh batteries. I guess what I wanted was the led version of a SF M6...a light I have always wanted but could not justify buying (i did pick up a M3 and M4 though) becuause of the cost to run the M6 on its HOLA lamp.

I loved the TK40's feel on lithium AA's...but the parasitic drain thing (sold mine when this issue was first being discussed) really bummed me out when I thought of $14 worth of lithium AA's going dead on their own in a few months.

Now that you have cleared this up for me, I will buy another one...and stock it with lithium primaries. I know they are more expensive than nimh...but they are WAY cheaper than feeding the M6 123a's. 

I just really liked the no donut hole wide and bright beam on the TK40. Thanks for giving me back my dream of a LED-Multi level "M6"


brad


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## HKJ (May 30, 2009)

woodrow said:


> I loved the TK40's feel on lithium AA's...but the parasitic drain thing (sold mine when this issue was first being discussed) really bummed me out when I thought of $14 worth of lithium AA's going dead on their own in a few months.
> 
> Now that you have cleared this up for me, I will buy another one...and stock it with lithium primaries. I know they are more expensive than nimh...but they are WAY cheaper than feeding the M6 123a's.



My calculations are based on Eneloop NiMH, with lithium you will get about 20 months before the batteries are empty.


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## AusKipper (May 30, 2009)

HKJ said:


> My calculations are based on Eneloop NiMH, with lithium you will get about 20 months before the batteries are empty.



Or you can unscrew the tailcap a bit and it will be 10 years  (not that that has not been previously mentioned many times.... but... )


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## Kilovolt (May 30, 2009)

Actually it's the head you unscrew as per instructions. 

If you unscrew the tailcap until lockout the relevant o-ring gets exposed. 
This is not the case if you unscrew the head.


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## woodrow (May 30, 2009)

HKJ said:


> My calculations are based on Eneloop NiMH, with lithium you will get about 20 months before the batteries are empty.


 
Thanks...I can't believe I was so worried about the drain issue...I was thinking one or two months. 20...Wow. I look forward to the day when I would have a cool enough light to make the TK40 sit on a shelf for 20 months


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## The_Viking (May 31, 2009)

Kilovolt said:


> Actually it's the head you unscrew as per instructions.
> 
> If you unscrew the tailcap until lockout the relevant o-ring gets exposed.
> This is not the case if you unscrew the head.


 
Thanx for the clarification on that matter!


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## magnum70383 (Jun 10, 2009)

I just ordered the TK40 from Fenix-store and it's been shipped! I bought the L2D almost 2 years ago I think. I LOVED THAT LIGHT. Small, light, BRIGHT! Now TK40.... haha.... I just WANT THE BRIGHTNESS!  Can't wait till I shoot it during camps and hikes! It'll be AMAZING!!!!!!


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## Mike89 (Jun 10, 2009)

> Can't wait till I shoot it during camps and hikes! It'll be AMAZING!!!!!!


 
I'm confident you will be happy buying this light. I bought one and it is currently the best light I've ever owned. This light (and Fenix) have been bashed to death in this forum by people who apparently have nothing better to do and that most likely they don't even own. Glad to see not everyone buys into it. Once you fire this thing up and see what it can do and how versatile it is, you can truly appreciate just how good a light it is.

I've said this before, I've been waiting for a light like this for quite some time now and I finally have it. It's all good. So good in fact that I don't even see myself buying another light for the forseeable future. It would have to be something that would put this light to shame and I just don't see that happening any time soon. With my other lights, I have all I need now.


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## bodhran (Jun 10, 2009)

Mine has been on two camping trips now and I love it. Great throw and spill. I was walking with the beam pointing about 10' in front of me and the forest was still lit up. The only ones who haven't liked it are two Racoons...but we won't get into that.


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## GGG (Jun 12, 2009)

The TK40 can throw some light, great light for the money. If you don't use it for a while, change the batteries every 6 months or every daylight savings time like smoke detectors batteries. 

The TK40 can illuminate an area, it does the job, then again... were always look for something better.


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## AusKipper (Jun 13, 2009)

GGG said:


> The TK40 can illuminate an area, it does the job, then again... were always look for something better.



Like one with a smooth reflector for longer throw


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## magnum70383 (Jun 20, 2009)

*JUST GOT the Fenix TK40!*

My Tk40 just arrived. I have never seen a 500+ lumen flashlight before and Ooooooo effing wow this light is amazing! Running from AA batteries shooting THAT much light! It's very well built as well. I went out tonight and was lighting up my entire street. This light has an amazing throw too. I was light stuff up at the end of my street. I love it!

I wonder what they'll come out with next...... Fenix TK50.... 1200 lumen AA battery flashlight..... HA HA! 

ONE QUESTION - In the flicker mode on these lights, does it damages the led if it flickers too long??? hmm... 

Anyone wondering if they should get the TK40 or not, JUST GET IT! :twothumbs


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## jimmy1970 (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: JUST GOT the Fenix TK40!*

Hi Magnum,

Glad you like your TK40. I know I love mine. With regards to your question regarding the 'flicker' mode damaging the LED, that would be a confident no.

No damage to the emitter from continual use of the flasher modes.

Good luck with it,

James...


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## strinq (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: JUST GOT the Fenix TK40!*

Congrats on ur buy. I'll know how u feel in a few days when my M2XC4 arrives.


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## magnum70383 (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: JUST GOT the Fenix TK40!*

THanks! Now I'll leave it on flicker mode without worrying about it frying! I'm going to camp this weekend... I can't wait till it gets dark! I'll light up the whole forest! LOL


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## csshih (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: JUST GOT the Fenix TK40!*

LEDs are solid state technology, they will not burn out like incandescents if strobed.


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## magnum70383 (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: JUST GOT the Fenix TK40!*



csshih said:


> LEDs are solid state technology, they will not burn out like incandescents if strobed.


 
Ok I didn't know that... Thanks!


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## ToddW (Jun 30, 2009)

Right now around the house I use one of my streamlight ultra stingers but this TK40 has been asking me to BUY BUY BUY.

Anyone have any shots comparing the TK40 to the Streamlight Ultra Stinger?

Which throws a further beam? 

Comparison pics anywhere?


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## Drudge (Jun 30, 2009)

*Re: JUST GOT the Fenix TK40!*



strinq said:


> Congrats on ur buy. I'll know how u feel in a few days when my M2XC4 arrives.




Im with you on that one. Cant wait for mine either


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## woodrow (Jul 1, 2009)

ToddW said:


> Right now around the house I use one of my streamlight ultra stingers but this TK40 has been asking me to BUY BUY BUY.
> 
> Anyone have any shots comparing the TK40 to the Streamlight Ultra Stinger?
> 
> ...


 
I used to have a Ultrastinger...and Really liked it...(did wish for brighter spill though) The Ultra stinger will likely outthrow the TK40 (which I also have owned) but the light output would be the difference between a .22 hornet and a 10 guage. (small dot of long range light vs...a huge spot and bright spill) Pick up a TK40... I really do think you will be impressed.


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## zgundam (Jul 1, 2009)

Hi all, just picked up a TK40 last week and loving it so far, but I've noticed that if I don't unscrew the head such that there is no longer a circuit formed, 1/4 of the led seems to stay (dimly) lit (see pic below).

This is with 8 AA's (Maha Powerex 2700mah) installed. Has anyone else encountered this before? Is this the "discharge" the manual refers to, or is my Tk40 just faulty? Thanks!


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## recDNA (Jul 1, 2009)

Mine doesn't do that. I'm guessing it is defective.


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## recDNA (Jul 1, 2009)

*Re: JUST GOT the Fenix TK40!*



magnum70383 said:


> My Tk40 just arrived. I have never seen a 500+ lumen flashlight before and Ooooooo effing wow this light is amazing! Running from AA batteries shooting THAT much light! It's very well built as well. I went out tonight and was lighting up my entire street. This light has an amazing throw too. I was light stuff up at the end of my street. I love it!
> 
> I wonder what they'll come out with next...... Fenix TK50.... 1200 lumen AA battery flashlight..... HA HA!
> 
> ...


 
The first night I got mine I shined it toward the "woods" (about 100 yards of conservation land). I forgot about the houses on the other side. They don't like the TK40 as much as I.


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## recDNA (Jul 1, 2009)

[FONT=Times New Roman said:


> Someone with knowldge of animals and LED-lights: How come birds get really pissed off by LED light (especially the almost fearless DUCKS around here) and on the opposite side a "close encounter" with a MINK (I was like 5 feet away from it) one time gave the insight the the mink was not at all impressed with my Fenix T1 on turbo... it stared some seconds into the light and like "huh.. Fenix T1, 225 lumen... not impressed!" :thumbsdow and calmly went on to build its nest or whatever it was doing in that fallen tree. You were wondering about that mink and why it didnt fear ME... well, animals are very used to people around here.. simple as that.. though I am surprised that it didnt run away as I was so close to it. [/FONT]


 
Used to people? Sounds rabid to me.


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## recDNA (Jul 1, 2009)

HKJ said:


> The standby drain will drain the batteries in about a year. I.e. if you use the TK40 it is no problem, but if you want to store it for months, you need to use loosen the head.


 
Interestingly, that doesn't work in mine unless you loosen the head to the point it is one tenth of a twist from falling off. 4 full twists and the flashlight still lights when turned on so I assume that means the drain continues.

I have to untwist the head and the tail about one twist from completely off to lock out the flashlight. I'm not going to send it back because I have no intention of locking it out but I may have if 3 twists of the head worked.


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## thedeske (Jul 2, 2009)

Given the time for a significant drain to occur, it seems like a non issue if you're on rechargeable AAs and using the light with any regularity.

Who would spend the money on a TK40 and just let it sit unused?
Perhaps that's a stupid question


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## jahxman (Jul 2, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Interestingly, that doesn't work in mine unless you loosen the head to the point it is one tenth of a twist from falling off. 4 full twists and the flashlight still lights when turned on so I assume that means the drain continues.
> 
> I have to untwist the head and the tail about one twist from completely off to lock out the flashlight. I'm not going to send it back because I have no intention of locking it out but I may have if 3 twists of the head worked.


 
I found that bending the small gold springs at the bezel end of the battery carrier down just a few mm allowed me to lock out the light in under two turns, and otherwise performance is unaffected.


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## thedeske (Jul 2, 2009)

jahxman said:


> I found that bending the small gold springs at the bezel end of the battery carrier down just a few mm allowed me to lock out the light in under two turns, and otherwise performance is unaffected.



Nice Tip


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## recDNA (Jul 2, 2009)

jahxman said:


> I found that bending the small gold springs at the bezel end of the battery carrier down just a few mm allowed me to lock out the light in under two turns, and otherwise performance is unaffected.



I've heard that but I'm chicken. Flashlight works well...don't want to mess with it. Thanks 4 the tip though.


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## jahxman (Jul 2, 2009)

recDNA said:


> I've heard that but I'm chicken. Flashlight works well...don't want to mess with it. Thanks 4 the tip though.


 
You can always bend them back if you don't like it - just use your fingers, no tools. I really only mainly had to bend one of them, because it was sticking up about 3 mm higher than the others.


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## recDNA (Jul 2, 2009)

jahxman said:


> You can always bend them back if you don't like it - just use your fingers, no tools. I really only mainly had to bend one of them, because it was sticking up about 3 mm higher than the others.


 
If I do that and one of the 4 prongs is not making proper contact the light will still light up but the batteries won't drain equally in each well?


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## zgundam (Jul 2, 2009)

recDNA said:


> If I do that and one of the 4 prongs is not making proper contact the light will still light up but the batteries won't drain equally in each well?



if you're worried about contact, just put something flat on top of the 4 prongs and check that whatever you put on it is level.

I don't think contact would be an issue anyways since those prongs should get compressed slightly (and therefore make "proper" contact) when the head/tail are screwed on tight imho.


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## jahxman (Jul 2, 2009)

zgundam said:


> if you're worried about contact, just put something flat on top of the 4 prongs and check that whatever you put on it is level.
> 
> I don't think contact would be an issue anyways since those prongs should get compressed slightly (and therefore make "proper" contact) when the head/tail are screwed on tight imho.


 
Yes, they all make good contact when the head is tight. Also, all the small springs are connected, not seperate - so no chance of unevenly discharging the batteries. 

As I said, one of my small springs was already not even with the others; it was higher. making them all even allowed me to lock out the light with less than 3 turns.


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## ubetit (Jul 3, 2009)

All these TK40 threads are about to make my wallet a little lighter.


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2009)

jahxman said:


> Yes, they all make good contact when the head is tight. Also, all the small springs are connected, not seperate - so no chance of unevenly discharging the batteries.
> 
> As I said, one of my small springs was already not even with the others; it was higher. making them all even allowed me to lock out the light with less than 3 turns.


 

Ok, I worked up the guts to bend the springs back a little so I could lock out the TK40. They were even to begin with so I bent back all 3. Now I can lock it out with 4 full turns...should only take 3 but I'm perfectly happy with 4.

The only thing is although the flashlight won't light after unscrewing the head 4 turns it remembers the last mode I was in. I've tried putiing it in each mode. Locking it out. Leaving it alone for an hour. Then screw the head back on tightly and turn on the flashlight. It always returns to the mode last used. In order to "remember" the most recent mode the flashlight must still be draining some power from the batteries right?


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2009)

ubetit said:


> All these TK40 threads are about to make my wallet a little lighter.


 
It's well worth the money...but even more so if I could get all my neighbors on the other side of the woods to go away for a week so I could shine it at the trees at night without freaking them out!


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## HKJ (Jul 3, 2009)

recDNA said:


> The only thing is although the flashlight won't light after unscrewing the head 4 turns it remembers the last mode I was in. I've tried putiing it in each mode. Locking it out. Leaving it alone for an hour. Then screw the head back on tightly and turn on the flashlight. It always returns to the mode last used. In order to "remember" the most recent mode the flashlight must still be draining some power from the batteries right?



No, try checking EEPROM, this is a memory that can store a setting without power and many small microprocessors has one.


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2009)

HKJ said:


> No, try checking EEPROM, this is a memory that can store a setting without power and many small microprocessors has one.


 
Oh, cool. I'm somewhat familiar with the term as it applies to computers.

If that's the case what IS the cause of the parasitic drain?


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## HKJ (Jul 3, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Oh, cool. I'm somewhat familiar with the term as it applies to computers.
> 
> If that's the case what IS the cause of the parasitic drain?



The need to scan the switch and handle the user interface and a lot of manufactures are not really good at low power designs. I did a roundup of lights with standby drain here: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/standbyCurrent UK.html


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2009)

HKJ said:


> The need to scan the switch and handle the user interface and a lot of manufactures are not really good at low power designs. I did a roundup of lights with standby drain here: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/standbyCurrent UK.html


 
Yes, I've read it. In fact it is how I learned about the drain in the TK40. I thought "user interface" drain meant "remembering" the last mode used. I don't understand what other aspect of the user interface that requires constant power input but I'm pretty ignorant of electronics.


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## HKJ (Jul 3, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Yes, I've read it. In fact it is how I learned about the drain in the TK40. I thought "user interface" drain meant "remembering" the last mode used. I don't understand what other aspect of the user interface that requires constant power input but I'm pretty ignorant of electronics.



Very few lights uses power to remember the settings (one that does is the Tomahawk).

On a light like TK40 the microprocessor must measure if the button is hold down a short time or long time or if it is a double press. Then it controls a electronic switch to turn the light on/off and has some way to control the current.


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## recDNA (Jul 3, 2009)

HKJ said:


> Very few lights uses power to remember the settings (one that does is the Tomahawk).
> 
> On a light like TK40 the microprocessor must measure if the button is hold down a short time or long time or if it is a double press. Then it controls a electronic switch to turn the light on/off and has some way to control the current.


 
Thanks for the explanation. Of course when the light is OFF none of those things are relevant at all. It would be nice if they built in a completely off function so that I could lock out the flashlight and still fit it in the plastic case! Of course with the head unscrewed 4 turns it won't fit.

Lots of folks here are knowledgeable but I *really appreciate* the fact that you're never condescending or snide in your answers to what may seem very elementary questions.


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## Lightcrazycanuck (Jul 3, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Thanks for the explanation. Of course when the light is OFF none of those things are relevant at all. It would be nice if they built in a completely off function so that I could lock out the flashlight and still fit it in the plastic case! Of course with the head unscrewed 4 turns it won't fit.
> 
> Lots of folks here are knowledgeable but I *really appreciate* the fact that you're never condescending or snide in your answers to what may seem very elementary questions.


 

+1 on that.

HKJ is awsome.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## HKJ (Jul 3, 2009)

recDNA said:


> Of course when the light is OFF none of those things are relevant at all.



But they are, that is the problem. The switch on the TK40 is off except when you press it. 

On lights with a normal switch, the microprocessor usual uses a small capacitor to keep powering it, between the off/on codes. But that puts a limit on the types of codes you can use, because all codes must end with the switch in the on position.

I think the best solution is to use the right low power microprocessor and know how to program for really low power, i.e. 20+ years of standby current on the battery type the light uses.


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## recDNA (Jul 4, 2009)

HKJ said:


> But they are, that is the problem. The switch on the TK40 is off except when you press it.
> 
> On lights with a normal switch, the microprocessor usual uses a small capacitor to keep powering it, between the off/on codes. But that puts a limit on the types of codes you can use, because all codes must end with the switch in the on position.
> 
> I think the best solution is to use the right low power microprocessor and know how to program for really low power, i.e. 20+ years of standby current on the battery type the light uses.


 
Very interesting.

I agree that a drain that low does no harm. Batteries don't even last that long. But if there is an actual "off" mode that equals lockout it also solves the problem..(bottom line is there should be a solution short of untwisting the head IMO) ..even if it is an old fashioned on-off switch on the side I would prefer to flip a switch rather than untwisting the head to the point it no longer fits in the case. I actually LIKE the TK40 case so it annoys me that if I elect to keep the TK40 in my car I can't use the case (and lock out the flashlight). In the long run the TK40 will likely end up in the car....probably by this winter and with infrequent usage at low temp lockout will be needed.


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## jahxman (Jul 4, 2009)

recDNA said:


> I actually LIKE the TK40 case so it annoys me that if I elect to keep the TK40 in my car I can't use the case (and lock out the flashlight).


 
I shaved down the little plastic ridges that stick up from the inside of the ends of the case, and the TK40 fits in there fine on lockout now. They are at least half a centimeter at each end, so you have a fair bit of room to work with.


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## Ares (Jul 21, 2009)

I actually just found another reason, besides the parasitic drain, to unscrew the light just enough to keep the batteries from making contact.

I accidentally left my case at the office yesterday. I had my light in a plastic grocery bag, in my trunk, with a few other items. On the way over, somehow the end got hit, and the light turned on. Of course, the last mode I had it in was turbo. It actually got hot enough to ever-so-slightly melt part of the plastic bag. Glad I checked on it as soon as I got to the office. I could have blown a battery, or possibly worse.

So yeah, always unscrew this little sucker.. especially if you're an idiot like me, and sometimes lose the case. :shakehead


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## thedeske (Jul 21, 2009)

Brown delivered my 40 today. Yet again, my size impressions from all the pics and videos online were wrong. It looks and feels very compact to me. The battery carrier is rigid on my unit. No rattle in the tube.
Right away, I grabbed the old 3D mag for an A/B in the hands. What a joke.

Now I understand the reports about the switch turning on in bags. It's very open and easy to push. I like the feel of the switch. I also like the fact that I've been warned by at least 2 reports here not to leave it where something with weight can turn it on. Thanks Guys

The wide eyelid openings on the tail make the switch easy to reach with a forefinger or thumb. If it were more enclosed and stiff, I'm guessing people would complain, so pick your poison.

There's a dark stretch of 2 lane about 1/4 mile away. A little walk is in order tonight


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## burntoshine (Jul 21, 2009)

i was expecting the tk40 to be bigger, too.

i was pleasantly surprised. i like its size.


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## thedeske (Jul 22, 2009)

OK
I reached my little dark stretch of road. I'd say just under 1/4 mile where it's over grown this time of year and almost cave like in darkness. The TK40 punched through the area with a wall of light that competes with my high beams when I drive through. Old news for many here, so no need to make this long.

The many beam shots online do not come close to the the real thing in hand.
Even in my 6000 foot room, I don't get a real picture of what the light will do. It is, without question, an outside light.

For most purposes the PD30 will serve me well, but this little powerhouse is nice to have around. Really Nice


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## ignitos (Jul 22, 2009)

Hello Guys, I was wondering if one of the "Grip n' Clip" Sleeves, that were actually desgined for Mag's, would also fit on a TK40 - did anyone give it a try yet?


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## The 8th Man (Jul 23, 2009)

ignitos said:


> Hello Guys, I was wondering if one of the "Grip n' Clip" Sleeves, that were actually desgined for Mag's, would also fit on a TK40 - did anyone give it a try yet?




Yes they will, I have a couple and they stretch to fit almost any light that uses c cells or D, the TK 40 is in that size range.

I just got mine last night and I must say it is nice. Here are a few things I would like to add about it, I was impressed by the light but I was surprised that it did not come with any of the threads lubed at all , also I thought it would be made of thicker skin ( the walls), It is about the size I had expected and the workmanship is nice. I did get mine to lockout with only 1\2 turn in the head by using the prong bending trick without any problem at all. 

I am pleased with it so far, I hope to play with it some more this weekend.


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## rookiedaddy (Jul 23, 2009)

I'm using the D-size "Grip 'N Clip". Too long for TK40, had to cut out 3.5cm (~1.4inch) of the rubber in the middle to fit the body without covering the fins. It does provide a very good grip but I like the type of clip from "Lite Holster STRETCH" more, feels more secure. :twothumbs


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## burntoshine (Jul 24, 2009)

i went a little GLOW crazy and made a lanyard with glow in the dark paracord with a monkeys fist (both ends of the paracord are tied within the knot), six 1" GITD o-rings and some reflective tape. don't wanna lose this thing...


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## cuttingedge (Jul 24, 2009)

Where did you get the o-rings?


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## burntoshine (Jul 24, 2009)

cuttingedge said:


> Where did you get the o-rings?



http://www.lighthound.com/Glow-In-The-Dark-GITD-O-Ring-1quot-size_p_579.html

the TK40 has about 4 or 5 indentations where 1" o-rings fit perfectly. they stay in there too 'cause they're stretched a little bit to fit over the light.


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## neoseikan (Jul 26, 2009)

sorry , wrong post


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## Thegasman (Aug 11, 2009)

Hey all, I am new to this forum. After reading this string, I am super excited to see just how much light this torch can produce. I rcvd my light yesterday. Loaded it with fresh new batts and poof... NOTHING! :mecry:
Imaging my disappointment. I check the batt orientation 3+ times, I've check to see that it was not "locked-out", I check that the head end prongs are making contact, I have checked for any loose parts on the batt carrier. All looks good. The only thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that the tail cap spring when fully assembled into the body, does not make any contact with the negative side on the ckt rather it contacts the plastic base of the tail cap end of the carrier. Is this how it should be??? :thinking: I would think there would be a spring to metal surface contact. I don't want to send it back before I know there is an actual problem. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## recDNA (Aug 11, 2009)

Thegasman said:


> Hey all, I am new to this forum. After reading this string, I am super excited to see just how much light this torch can produce. I rcvd my light yesterday. Loaded it with fresh new batts and poof... NOTHING! :mecry:
> Imaging my disappointment. I check the batt orientation 3+ times, I've check to see that it was not "locked-out", I check that the head end prongs are making contact, I have checked for any loose parts on the batt carrier. All looks good. The only thing that strikes me as odd is the fact that the tail cap spring when fully assembled into the body, does not make any contact with the negative side on the ckt rather it contacts the plastic base of the tail cap end of the carrier. Is this how it should be??? :thinking: I would think there would be a spring to metal surface contact. I don't want to send it back before I know there is an actual problem. Any thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated.


 

On the end of the battery carrier nearest the head of the flashlight is a spring that touches a metal piece in the head.

On the tail end of the battery carrier is a octagonal piece of metal. It's right in the center of the bottom of the battery carrier. The spring on the tailcap touches the octagonal metal piece on the bottom of the battery carrier. I don't know what plastic it could touch.


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## nickanto (Aug 11, 2009)

You don't have the entire carrier in upside down do you?


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## recDNA (Aug 11, 2009)

nickanto said:


> You don't have the entire carrier in upside down do you?


 

But even if it WERE upside down you'd have the spring of the battery carrier touching the spring of the tailcap.

It sounds to me like his battery carrier is missing the octagonal metal contact piece on the negative end of the battery carrier. I don't see any other way the spring of the tailcap could touch plastic...unless there is a piece of plastic over the metal contact on the negative end to act as a lockout device? In that case you'd have to peel off the plastic.

I don't have a camera to take a picture of the bottom of the battery carrier. That might help him out.


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## Marko (Aug 12, 2009)

^ Here You can find some pictures of the TK40 battery carrier:
http://picasaweb.google.fi/jumprahuitti/FenixTK40MBin#


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## Sarratt (Aug 12, 2009)

Marko ... those are excellent photos.


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## Marko (Aug 12, 2009)

Sarratt said:


> Marko ... those are excellent photos.



Oops, sorry I forgot to mention that those are actually not mine - those were taken by another flashlight aficionado here in Finland, he helped me earlier with the pictures when I was looking info of the battery carrier. So thanks belongs to him.


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## recDNA (Aug 12, 2009)

Marko said:


> Oops, sorry I forgot to mention that those are actually not mine - those were taken by another flashlight aficionado here in Finland, he helped me earlier with the pictures when I was looking info of the battery carrier. So thanks belongs to him.


 
They clearly show the contact plate on the botton of the battery carrier. I'm interested to hear if that is missing on his or what the problem is.


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## Thegasman (Aug 12, 2009)

You folks ROCK! You have identified the problem... The light was sent from Fenix missing the octagon plate attached to the negative side of the carrier. I have been in contact with Fenix support and sent them a pic of my carrier. I will see if they will drop ship me the missing piece. Thanks all for your help!!! Much appriciated! :twothumbs


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## recDNA (Aug 12, 2009)

Thegasman said:


> You folks ROCK! You have identified the problem... The light was sent from Fenix missing the octagon plate attached to the negative side of the carrier. I have been in contact with Fenix support and sent them a pic of my carrier. I will see if they will drop ship me the missing piece. Thanks all for your help!!! Much appriciated! :twothumbs


 

Great, let us know how you make out?


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Dec 10, 2009)

burntoshine said:


> i went a little GLOW crazy and made a lanyard with glow in the dark paracord with a monkeys fist (both ends of the paracord are tied within the knot), six 1" GITD o-rings and some reflective tape. don't wanna lose this thing...


 
Found this in a search. Would you mind posting some glow in the dark pics? Would really appreciate it.


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## Russelljohnson (Mar 19, 2010)

Why is this thread dead? I just bought one!


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## was.lost.but.now.found (Mar 19, 2010)

Russelljohnson said:


> Why is this thread dead? I just bought one!


 
After having mine since Christmas, I FINALLY got my first real chance last night to really let it shine out away from street lights. I was giggling the whole time, it is just such a fun light. The guy I was with was like, have you seen those super bright spot lights? And I'm like, yeah, but those would be dead by now (after 30 minutes of walking a trail in a park).


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