# Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam shots



## ma_sha1 (Aug 26, 2010)

*Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam shots*

*Updated 10/14/10:
**a log of Top Incan thrower cps measured & reported for reference use.*

*Extreme Throw Incans:*
*MagDaddy* PAR 46 HIR: *>400,000 cp, 130W, 5.75" Reflector **sealed beam** H7680 HIR *(Measured by ma_sha1)
*Platinum* *Thor 15 Million *CP Halogen*: 380,000 cp* (Maxablaster host): 130W, *9" reflector*  (Measured by RA)
Several *other 15 Million cp *halogen spotlights: *Non went above 400,000 CP*, unknown but *large reflector sizes* (Measured by RA)
*Thor 10 Million* CP Halogen: *183,000 CP *100w, *7" reflector* (measured by mtbkndad & calculated by RA) 

* **
Updated 9/23/10.
After the "staging" prep for battle with HID, the lux went up to >400,000 lux @ 1 meter **:devil:**

Updated 9/14/10. 
NTC soft Start & 4x IMR 26650 to over drive the lamp to 16V, the lux went up to 300,000 lux @ 1 meter 


__________________________________________________________________________________________

 Introducing the newest sequel to the Franken Mag Series: MagDaddy PAR46 HIR **Throw machine:*

This is the 4th installemant in the Franken Mag series. Incase you missed any of the previous episodes, Franken Mags are all based on Maglight with various crazy Turbo heads & must be able to throw more than 100,000 lux @ 1 meter.

Episode 1. Freanken Mag DEFT SST-50: ~115,000 lux @ 1 meter
Episode 2. Franken MagDragon SST-50: ~125,000 lux @ 1 meter
Episode 3. Franken MagDragon Jr. XRE R2, ~150,000 Lux @ 1 meter 
Now , without Further delay, here is:
Episode 4. Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR, ~200,000 [email protected] 1meter

*I must credit theses two links for inspration:*
FM PAR36 Head: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/273839
It got me started reading about seal beam PAR 36 bulbs & it's ability to throw. So I figure, I could make one my self with 100W q4509 sealed beam. Rated 140,000CP. AS I was gathering parts, I found this thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/250928
alone with the bulb H7680 HIR, whiich is rated nearly 2X teh throw of q4509 with only 80W of power consumption:
http://genet.gelighting.com/LightPr..._Lamps_Halogen_PAR_PAR46&SearchFieldCode=null

The rest is history. I went on the road towards over 200KU throw, nothing could stop me now:devil:

The Bulb is GE H7680 HIR, efficiency between Halogen & HID, it use
IR reflective bulb hosing to make the filament glow hotter & thus the increased surface brightness for longer throw.

At 80W of power, it's not enough to get into LuxLuther's top 10 of most powerful mag mods, but for throw, it'll probably be in Top 3?
I don't know the CP of those bobs, but most of them are massive flooders. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177171







The Hosts: a 6" Vintage PAR46 Lantern head from ebay & mag 4D tube.





The wiring:
I put in a plastic insert to house the positive terminal holder made out of hard wood door knob & a piece of circuit board. 
The Lantern had a Hi/Lo switch, so I wired a resister (2x0.5 Ohm High Power resister in series) to get low & direct drive on Hi.





The Power source: 4xLiFepo4 Safe Chemistry High Amp Cells
(Max AMP rating = 14 AMPs), They are 3.36v each freshly charged, together deliver about 13.5V, perfect as the bulb is rated 13V/80W.
safe, Simple & Long Run time. 




The lantern head & mag body are joined together similarly as the other Franken Mags. The Mag tube are cut below the switch hole, bored slightly to reveal the bare metal. The electrical flow are facilitated by a copper ring between the Mag Body & lantern head. Then the two pieces are held together by JB weld, yes jB weld again :nana:
It's actually pretty short since I make the battery pile up all the way to the throat of the lantern. It's basically the length of a 2d mag plus a big 6 inch monster turbohead.





Recessed tail spring mod, to make it as short as possible.





Wola, it's done. You can operate the Hi/Lo switch with one hand. 
It's actually fells pretty light, because it's well balanced & the head, although really big, it's just a thin alum. shell.





Shown next to the MagDragon: Who's your daddy, Who's your daddy now? 





My family reacted more than usual tonight. My wife said "ridicules" three times . 
My son loves it, he was going like Wow, Wow, I like the big light. 
So he is modeling for me tonight.






Bulb warming up,






Warming up some more,





Don't look directly into the Sun 






Beam shot at the place I always use for beam shots.
It has a spot slightly smaller than the MagDragon SST-50 /75mm ASpheric.
The beam is pretty good looking too, very symetrical, no messy filament images, excellent beam for an incan. 






Finally, Lux Measurements. GE rated 275KCP (275,000 [email protected] 1meter). 
On Hi, the DX meter registered 180,000 lux @ 1 meter using my 10 meter measurement system. 
With DX meter reading 15-20% lower than other meters, *this thing is pumping over 200,000 lux @ 1 meter for sure. *
How much more isn't that important, as I am in the 200Klux club now 
On high, it pulls 6.2Amp & On Low it pulls 5 Amp & gives 30,000lux @ 1 meter, but still brighter than My previously measured Mag 1185 (25,000lux @1 meter). 

That's it folks, I am running out of ideas to continue the Franken Mag series, so the big Daddy might very well be the last Franken Mag.


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## Kestrel (Aug 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

Personal smile-per-post ratio at maximum for the week - I love it! :twothumbs


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

Thanks!

While reading through the PAR36 threads, I came across the link from the FM thread on GE PAR bulbs spec. 
http://www.gelighting.com/na/busine...ture_library/catalogs/downloads/msb_43-52.pdf

When comparing the PAR36 bulb specs, I realized that there's Nothing in PAR36 that cold out throw this bulb, 
not even the 250W level. The Highest PAR36 lamp CP is 4596, which is 250W/150,000 CP.

The lamp that makes the most sense for throw in PAR36 to me would have been Q4509, 140,000CP @ 100W. 
But it's only half the CP compares to this lamp. 

So I thought, why PAR36 if I could PAR46 it? The lamp measured 6.5A with my 13.5V battery set-up,
Running at about 87 Watts. GE don't have Lumen spec, the spec sheet only shows CP: http://genet.gelighting.com/LightPr..._Lamps_Halogen_PAR_PAR46&SearchFieldCode=null

.


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## irv_usc (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

LOL. it took THIS to get your wife to say ridiculous? 

btw can you cook with that beam? it looks hot.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



irv_usc said:


> LOL. it took THIS to get your wife to say ridiculous?



Yes, my wife is a Saint:kiss:, she's been very supportive so far, tolerating me using her Kitchen as flashlight work-shop as well, so I could do my mods while "baby sitting" my son who's usually playing in the living room. Most of my lights were made in the Kitchen. 

I certainly don't want to push my luck, I think I already earned a free ticket to the dog house  so I think this is where the Franken Mags will end. 



irv_usc said:


> btw can you cook with that beam? it looks hot.



I don't know as I haven't turn it on for too long, the HIR is also suppose to turn some IR into lumens, so it should run cooler than 80W halogen. I did remove the Rubber seal around the edge & make four "Copper Feet" on the brace instead, so I don't have to worry about heat melting the rubber seal.

The round brace is perfect to sit a small frying pan on, may be I'll try to cook an egg over it tonight? 
.
.


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## Ra (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

Another extreme mod! I like this alot..

But... Isn't it time to place that door a bit further away from the torch ?.. SOME 500 YARDS FURTHER AWAY !!!!


Keep up the good work!


All the best,

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



Ra said:


> Another extreme mod! I like this alot..
> But... Isn't it time to place that door a bit further away from the torch ?.. SOME 500 YARDS FURTHER AWAY !!!!
> 
> Keep up the good work!
> ...




Thanks Ra, nothing compares to your Extreme Maxablaster!

Yes, I should take some long distance outdoor shots, there's a light house 
in the nearby park with long distance flat ground, perfect spot. I've always wanted to go take my lights there for some long distance shots. 

I used to tell myself, it's not worth the trip until it's over 100K lux. 
After 100k lux, it becomes: I'll definately make the trip after the 200Klux light that's already in the planning stage. 

Now, I am thinking, what's the point for the trip? Many off-the-shelf HIDs are in the 200K lux club, 
maybe if I get over 300K lux...

Now I started to see a pattern, I think I am just plain lazy ..
.
.


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## Hill (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



ma_sha1 said:


> That's it folks, I am running out of ideas to continue the Franken Mag series, so the big Daddy might very well be the last Franken Mag.



Naw, I think you've got ONE more Franken Mag mod left in ya 

This one sure is a "monster" and truly fugly ta 'boot :devil: . But I'll bet it throws a devastating beam . BTW, where are the outdoor beamshots????

Hill


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

One more Franken Mag left in me? Got to wait for price to come down from this thing:

I would love to build one of this: 18,000 lumens from a tiny light source, 95 CRI.
The head looks about 3", certainly small enough to Franken Mag it.


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## mrartillery (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

:huh: Very nice! Beamshots at a couple hundred yards perhaps........:naughty:


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## bigchelis (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

I like this new MagDaddy the best:thumbsup:


Here is an Idea for you that should give you 200k lux at 1 meter with reflector.


CBT-90 with 3in~5in Reflector AT 5~10A of course.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



bigchelis said:


> I like this new MagDaddy the best:thumbsup:
> Here is an Idea for you that should give you 200k lux at 1 meter with reflector.
> CBT-90 with 3in~5in Reflector AT 5~10A of course.



It's getting too big for your new sphere :devil:

I thought about Franken Mag turbo head with a big reflector quite a bit,
sourcing of proper reflector & find a head to match will be a challenge.

Plus, knowing that the SR90 fully driven with a big 4" SMO reflector is at 112K lux. A CBT-90 could give 30% more throw, ~140K lux range at 4" SMO, so even with a good 5" reflector, it probably won't get up into the 200K lux zone. In reality, it's limited by availability & quality of parts within reasonable price. Reflector in that size would be most likely from halogen spot light, which is usually too shallow for LEDs.

There is a 4" Aspheric lens at Thor labs that could easily push led over the 200K lux zone, but at a cost of $1085 a piece


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## Ra (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks Ra, nothing compares to your Extreme Maxablaster



Be that as it may, I always enjoy projects like yours. In Holland, we have a saying which is hard to translate to english: Wie het kleine niet eert, is het grote niet weert.. It means that when one doesn't respect the small things (of others), he or she isn't worthy to have the big things... Is there a saying for that in english?

Don't get me wrong, I don't see this project of yours as a small thing..


Regards,

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



Ra said:


> is hard to translate to english: Wie het kleine niet eert, is het grote niet weert.. It means that when one doesn't respect the small things (of others), he or she isn't worthy to have the big things... Is there a saying for that in english?




Yeah, in America, it's called mine is bigger than yours

I am just kidding with you, Ra, you are an inspiration. The process of improving each build is what I enjoy the most, I always end up selling my lights & build new ones anyways, I promise a lighthouse outdoor shot when I am over 300K lux


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



irv_usc said:


> btw can you *cook with that beam*? it looks hot.




OK, since I am too lazy to go take nice outdoor shots, at least I can do is 
to do the cooking experiment:

A piece of copper is placed over the light, covered by alu. foil,
followed by Organic egg from Free Running Chicken.

After two minutes, Nada, nothing happened. So I put my hand over the lamp, it's barely warm. 
It seems that the HIR bulb sleeve really works, reflected most of the heat back to the filament,
there's hardly ant IR radiated out the front. 

Disclaimer, No McGizmo "Sundrop" was harmed during this experiment 





As a result, I think it was not necessary for me to use copper feet to replace the weather stripe, so I put the weather stripe back on, at least making it weather resistant & some shock damping.





In the end, I did end up "Cook with that beam", is this cheating?


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## mrartillery (Aug 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



ma_sha1 said:


> In the end, I did end up "Cook with that beam", is this cheating?



Slightly, but its still cool as hell!


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## Ra (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



ma_sha1 said:


> Yeah, in America, it's called mine is bigger than yours



Oh yes, of cource !!! I forgot all about that one  Thanks for reminding me !

You are right, improving things (not only flashlights) is most enjoyable..
But I mostly cannot part from my earlier creations, thats why you don't find me in the BST section.. But that can always change of cource..


Hope to see you beond the 300,000 cp mark soon..


EDIT: I can give you a tip: If you can find a way to remove the glass window of a PAR46, and remove the bulb, you can install a SST50 or SST90 on a recoil (?) basis
Those reflectors have a quite long focal length (shallow), so big chance you can effectively use much of it's aperture in a setup like that..
Heatsinking is not so hard, that is, if you can find a copper bar you can bend over the aperture..


Regards,

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



Ra said:


> EDIT: I can give you a tip: If you can find a way to remove the glass window of a PAR46, and remove the bulb, you can install a SST50 or SST90 on a recoil (?) basis
> Those reflectors have a quite long focal length (shallow), so big chance you can effectively use much of it's aperture in a setup like that..
> Heatsinking is not so hard, that is, if you can find a copper bar you can bend over the aperture..
> 
> ...



Great idea Ra, the WF-007 style like this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213419. 
That should be ideal with PAR style shallow reflector. 

I still have the PAR46 Wagner bulb with the mirror reflector, it has the bare filaments. 
probably don't need to break the front glass, just drill hole in the back & stick a probe with led facing backwards.

I have a copper heat pipe that I pulled from an junked air conditioning unit. Might have to try this at some point.


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## Ra (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



ma_sha1 said:


> Great idea Ra, the WF-007 style like this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213419.
> That should be ideal with PAR style shallow reflector.
> 
> I still have the PAR46 Wagner bulb with the mirror reflector, it has the bare filaments.
> ...



If you have the skills and the equipment, you can drill a hole in the front with a diamond tool and stick in a probe with the led facing forward.. then you don't have the lightloss of the shaft of the probe which will be much more than the loss of the two lead wires in front of the window.

I didn't want to bring this up yet, but my plan is to do the same with my active heatsink setup and a 24" high quality parabolic mirror I still have, which is doing nothing at the moment.
That will give quite some cp's with a SST90 !!
The focal length of this reflector makes it suitable for use with the SST90 led: 90% of the lumens output is grabbed and the entire diameter of the reflector is used!
I think the overall efficiency of that setup will be aprox 82%..
Question is, where do I connect the Mag-4D tube...LOL..


Regards,

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



Ra said:


> you can drill a hole in the front with a diamond tool and stick in a probe with the led facing forward.. then you don't have the lightloss of the shaft of the probe which will be much more than the loss of the two lead wires in front of the window.



Facing forward may not work, the filament is near the top of the reflector, which I would assume to be the focal point where the led need to be. If facing forward with LED projecting 120 degrees or so forward, most of the light won't even hit the PAR46 reflector. 



Ra said:


> I didn't want to bring this up yet, but my plan is to do the same with my active heatsink setup and a 24" high quality parabolic mirror I still have, which is doing nothing at the moment.
> That will give quite some cp's with a SST90 !!
> The focal length of this reflector makes it suitable for use with the SST90 led: 90% of the lumens output is grabbed and the entire diameter of the reflector is used!
> I think the overall efficiency of that setup will be aprox 82%..
> ...


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## ^Gurthang (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

Sha,

Could this be your next bulb for your next project?? 

http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=product_bulb_info&cPath=3900_3994&products_id=7268


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 29, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

Nice lamp, what's the CP rating?


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## Ra (Aug 29, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



ma_sha1 said:


> Facing forward may not work, the filament is near the top of the reflector, which I would assume to be the focal point where the led need to be. If facing forward with LED projecting 120 degrees or so forward, most of the light won't even hit the PAR46 reflector.



Sorry, I meant facing forward 'from' the probe, so facing towards the reflective surface of the PAR46..So the end of the probe sticks out of the front window, 
with the led mounted at the inner end of the probe, at the position of the filament..


Regards,

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 29, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



Ra said:


> Sorry, I meant facing forward 'from' the probe, so facing towards the reflective surface of the PAR46..So the end of the probe sticks out of the front window,
> with the led mounted at the inner end of the probe, at the position of the filament..
> 
> 
> ...




Got it, that should defenately work.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 29, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



^Gurthang said:


> Sha,
> 
> Could this be your next bulb for your next project??
> 
> http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=product_bulb_info&cPath=3900_3994&products_id=7268



*The bulb in your link is" 39395 – PAR64 *

I found the GE spec sheet for this bulb:
http://genet.gelighting.com/LightProducts/Dispatcher?BreadCrumbValues=Specialty^Airport%20_,%20Airfield&PRODUCTCODE=39395&REQUEST=COMMERCIALSPECPAGE&SearchFieldCode=null

Although it has a very narrow spot out of the bigger PAR64 lamp, the lamp is rated at 180,000CP, 
where my HIR PAR46 is rated at 275,000CP. Therefore, this bulb is not going to out throw MagDaddy.

PHOTOMETRIC CHARACTERISTICS 
Horizontal 3.5° - 50 % Beam Spread - 
Vertical 3.5° - 50 % 
Center Beam Candlepower (CBCP) 180000 
Max. Beam Candlepower (MBCP) (MAX) 180000
.
.


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## RAGE CAGE (Aug 29, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

stunning work ma......you are the Picasso of JB Weld work.:thumbsup:


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 29, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*



RAGE CAGE said:


> stunning work ma......you are the Picasso of JB Weld work.:thumbsup:




Hahaha that's a good one, thanks man, you are too kind.

I am no Picasso but maybe JB Weld should pay me for the free 
advertising I've done :devil:


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## jkilo (Sep 13, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*









Ma Sha, What is this thing? Plasma sulphur? Any pics of the business-end?


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 13, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 200,000 [email protected] 1meter*

It's the Luxim Plasma kit, size about 5mm led but 18,000 lumens.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/luxim-plasma-lifi-light-bulb-led-cfl.php

I don't have one, Something I'd like to try after price comes down.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 14, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Over 275,000 [email protected] 1meter*

A little update on the MagDaddy & I managed to get it to 300K lux :devil:

The bulb should be able to handle a bit more volts than 13V, so instead of 4x3v battery I used initially, I want to push it a little more. 

I wired in a NTC resister for soft start, & I put in 4x26650 IMR instead.

Wow, big big improvements, At 16V with NTC, no poof. 

*The lux went up to ~300,000 lux @ 1 meter. *


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## pepko (Sep 15, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine: Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter*

beamshots ?


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 18, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : >400,000 [email protected] 1meter*

Here are some beam shots:
All shots are 2" exposure, F3.3 ISO200. 


5xR2 Cree LED Flashlight, 1200 Lumens.
Distance to the Wall is 55ft. 





MagDaddy PAR46:
Distance to the Wall is 55ft. 





MagDaddy: 75Ft to the ground





MagDaddy: Distance to the tree: 100ft


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## ^Gurthang (Sep 19, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*

Sha,

Thanks for the beamshots. 

I think you need to get more distance though, the FMD shots are overexposed. A 100, 200 & 400 yd comparison shots series would be interesting..... 

BTW, did any moths go up in flames during that photo shoot???


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 19, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*

I am planning for it, I am getting an HID, want to see if the Magdaddy can beat 35W HID. 

My spot:


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## ^Gurthang (Sep 20, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*

Sha,

Can't wait for beamshots. 

Be careful though, you don't want to outshine Bug Light and confuse any tankers coming into S. Portland harbor!!! 

[Headline in Portland Press Herald: Tanker runs aground due to man w/ flashlight!]


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 20, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*

Good point, don't want to be picked-up by Police for messing up boat traffic either :devil:

This is the HID I got coming in: MOZO Li-ion Ultra Light HID that appears to be the clone of L35. 
http://www.mozohid.com/eshowProDetail.asp?ProID=1611





There was a post for another clone here:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache4Q2RgVq-M4J:www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php%3Ft%3D193703%26page%3D9+l35+factory+same&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

You can see the other Clone looks almost the same as Mozo & the clones are made by the same factory that makes the 
Titanium Innovations L35:


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## ^Gurthang (Sep 21, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*

Sha,

Nice looking light, got plenty of battery power for certain.

I peeked at the rest of the Mozo line and found this:

http://www.mozohid.com/eshowProDetail.asp?ProID=1615

Interesting HID flashlight.


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## Kestrel (Sep 21, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*



ma_sha1 said:


>


 
You know, folks reminisce about the good old days of CPF, but now that some of the more talented hobbyists are having to use satellite views more and more often to illustrate the performance of some of these handheld projects, *wow*. Amazing work! :thumbsup:


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 22, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*

Thanks, I can't wait for the HID to show-up,

I am rooting for the MagDaddy


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## ^Gurthang (Sep 22, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now ~300,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*

Sha,

+1 on the MagDaddy lickin' the Mozo.....

Too bad [email protected] doesn't put on "gatherings" like Range Rover has for its vehicles. If you'd show up w/ the MDaddy they'd either toss you out or elect you emperor!!! And the Daddy would make a suitable scepter.....


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now >400,000 [email protected] 1meter + out-door shot*

Getting the MagDaddy ready for battle, did a a couple prep work:

1. Cut the silly metal ring that's used to secure the lamp (Only the front ring that sit on top of the lamp which blocks small amount of light). 
There are 4 "feet" remaining that I bent to still support head stand but nothing gets into the way of the beam now. 

2. Clean-up the lamp glass, just realized that I haven't done this for all the previous measurements, had my finger prints everywhere. 

3. Charged up all 4 batteries, not completely 4.2V yet, but added up to 16.63V vs. last measurement @ 16V.

10 Meter Lux measurement went to 350,000 on Dx meter w/o correct,
add the 15% correction factor =402,500 lux @ 1 meter. 

Take that, HID :devil:

The lux growth at this point is exponential, I.e. very small current gain result in very big lux increase. I think I am getting close to  point.


Here is a summary of the various conditions I've tested.

13.6V No NTC: 6.2A Dx meter Lux = 180,[email protected] 1 meter, +15% correction =207,000 [email protected] 1 meter 
16V + NTC 6.5A DX meter Lux =280,[email protected] 1meter, +15% correction =322,000 lux @ 1 meter
16.63V + NTC: 6.8A DX meter lux =350,[email protected] meter , +15% correction =402500 lux @ 1 meter.
13.6V + 1W resistor (*Low beam*) 5 Amp, DX meter =28,000 Lux, +15% correction =34,500 lux @ 1 meter
I also noticed that for the first 1-2 second of lamp turn on, the current was 7.1Amp before quickly drops 
to 6.8Amp. That first instant, the spot looks at least 50% brighter but it's too fast for lux meter to 
capture the initial lux, not even enough time for me to aim right. I am standing 10 meters away for the measurement, 
the center hottest spot is a small round spot less than 1 ft in size. 

The overall hot spot is about 2-3ft, but the center 1ft super hot spot is noticeably brighter & it has to line up the center perfectly to get the highest lux reading.


*The bulb is currently running at 113 Watt* (6.8 Amp x 16.6V = 113W)
*Which is already at 41% over drive vs Mfg. rated 80W. *I am in the  zone now 
Usually, Incan folks recommend 30% over drive to stay in the safe zone.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now over 400,000 [email protected] 1meter +out-door s*

I am getting excited that on that this bulb still have potential,
I hope the relative easy lux gain doesn't convert me from led back to incan :nana:

Since I have 4 Amp vs lux data points & it appears to be growing exponentially. I put this plot together to see "*what if?*" :devil:

The blue is the 4 measured data points. The red is my crude curve fitting. 

My prediction is that this lamp can hit 1 Million Lux @ 1 meter, if you can drive it to 8 Amp w/o


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## ^Gurthang (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now over 400,000 [email protected] 1meter +out-door s*

Sha,

8A = War of the Worlds Martian Heat Ray............


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now over 400,000 [email protected] 1meter +out-door s*



^Gurthang said:


> Sha,
> 
> 8A = War of the Worlds Martian Heat Ray............



LOL, I like the name "Martian Heat ray". The temptation of easy lux is just too hard to resist. 

I've noticed an Amp drop after NTC install, It feels to me that the NTC resistance after hot is still high enough to be noticed. So after a bid research, I found this link:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LRsC2Z-WlVEJ:www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php%3Ft%3D199675+ntc+hot+resistance&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now over 400,000 [email protected] 1meter +out-door s*

I quoted one of the post in the above link below. It stated that with an 5761 running about 5 Amp. With NTC 7.31v W/O NTC 7.15V.

That's a 0.16v drop. With my Amp being at 6.8A, I think my NTC is possibly causing ~0.25V volt drop. Plus, I am at 16.6V, could go up to 16.8V when all 4 are charged up to fresh 4.2v each. That's another 0.2V to go. 0.25v+0.2v =0.45V total additional voltage I could gain if I remove the NTC resistor. 

Remember when I moved up from 16v to 16.6V, the increase of 0.6V made the lux go from 300K to 400K. At this point of nearing poof point, any volt increase will increase Lux dramatically. 

Thus, I am expecting removal of NTC +16.8V IMR fresh off the charger could get me another 100K lux or so, 
*possibly hitting the half million lux @ 1 meter mark, * if removal of NTC doesn't the bulb.



 On one hand, I am very tempted to remove the NTC & see what happens.
 On the other hand, I'd hate to poof the bulb before the HID shows up, that's going to really suck.
 *To  or not to , that is the question! * :thinking::hairpull::thinking:




> Anglepoise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR Throw Machine:Now over 400,000 [email protected] 1meter +out-door s*

Well, when I got home today, the HID is waiting:

It looks really small for a HID spot light & is indeed super light. 
As soon as I turned it on, I know it's no match to Mag Daddy. 

It does have a super clean beam for HID, no artifacts. Hot spot is tiny followed by smooth corona.

Lux measure ment came out 120K lux by DX meter, 144,000 lux @ 1 meter corrected by20%. 

That is no way to compete with Mag Daddy. 

I took it apart & did some bulb adjustment, removed two shims which allowed to move the bulb forward by 1mm. 

The Plastic bezel is blocking part of the reflector, so I took it to my grinder set-up & bored it open by a few mm to clear the reflector. 

The Lux went up a bit to 150,000 Dx lux @ 1 meter (180,000 lux @ 1 meter after 20% correction). 

This is still no way to compete with MagDaddy. Looks like that I'll have to do some serious upgrades. 
Probably will jam a 75W HID set -up into the Mozo to make a *Baby Barn Burner* in order to compete with Mag Daddy.

here are some photos:

















Very clean beam for HID:





Zoom into the beam, still can't see any flaws. The shadow on the left is the eletrode, can't avoid it on HID. 





Left 35W HID 180K [email protected] 1 meter
Right Mag Daddy Low; 130 K lux @ 1 meter





Left 35W HID 180K [email protected] 1 meter
Right Mag Daddy High; >400K lux @ 1 meter






Same thing just lower exposure:
Left 35W HID 180K [email protected] 1 meter
Right Mag Daddy Low; 130 K lux @ 1 meter





Left 35W HID 180K [email protected] 1 meter
Right Mag Daddy High; >400K lux @ 1 meter


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## saabluster (Sep 24, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR :Now > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter + new beam shows vs. HID*

ma_sha1 it has been nice watching you constantly working to eke a little more out of each build you do. It is this type of attitude that has helped move our hobby forward over the years. Keep it up!:thumbsup:

Oh yeah.. and  Just do it! Just work up to it in small increments and keep the data. The only way to increase the knowledge base is to push the boundaries.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 24, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR :Now > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter + new beam shows vs. HID*

Thanks Michael,

I think I must have known subconsciously I won't be able to resist the temptation of easy lux by simply cranking up the Amps.

One of the birthday gift I just got from my wife is a second PAR46* *H7680* *HIP lamp :devil:

So, the NTC is coming off...


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 25, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*

The excitement of possibly reaching half a million CP is just too much for me to handle, I woke up Sat. morning at 4AM thinking about it, could not go back to sleep. 

Went down stairs, put a 18AWG Wire to by pass the NTC, get the Lux meter setup & my monocular ready, adrenalin started rushing to my chin & forehead. I can feel the boiling blood circulating under the skin of my face, I can feel myself start breathing heavy, my finger started trembling slightly...

I pressed my finger sown on the Hi position of the switch, slow but firm, after what seems like the eternity, the switched flipped...
..................................................................................................................................................................
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
, it went, just like that, quitely & without hesitation. It gave out a last moment of glory, perhaps 1 milisecond of supernova brightness followed by complete darkness & silence.

Took me a minute to realize that, it's over, game over man, the first ever MagDaddy lamp has just died, in the name of CPF science. RIP :sigh::mecry:


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 25, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*

Got a Second HIR lamp, Finally, was able to drive down to the light house & take some 
photos. 

I was only able to take the light house photo. The other big structure 
that was more further away didn't work out, had bright lights everywhere, not sure if there's some construction going on. 

*They are both 2" exposure. Camera is on tri pot but & I am holding the light by hand.*

*First up 35W HID:*





*Franken Mag Daddy:*


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## circa (Sep 25, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*

Any bystanders around to compliment your light as you took the pics? Those are some very nice lights!


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*

There was one dude that worked by made a comment on light being bright,
I wasn't in the chatting mood, just focusing on take some quick shots & leave. 

Probably won't take beam shots on lighthouse again, there still boats going in/out, I felt quite uncomfortable turning light on.

Need a place that there's no people.


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## Ra (Sep 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*



ma_sha1 said:


> Need a place that there's no people.



What about the moon? No people there... (at least, not that I know of..)

Keep the light going !! And don't let  get to you.. I had many 's in my life, just made me stronger !!


Regards,

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*

Thanks, RA,

I am marching forward.

Just ordered a 75w HID H3 kit, need to make the L35 clone into a mini Barn Burner to keep up with MagDaddy.


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## saabluster (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*



ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks, RA,
> 
> I am marching forward.
> 
> Just ordered a 75w HID H3 kit, need to make the L35 clone into a mini Barn Burner to keep up with MagDaddy.


My goodness man. You have got the flashaholic bug something fierce. Pretty soon you are going to be buying one of those anti-aircraft lights I can just see it.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 27, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*

Michael, please tell me its not true! those guys are insane, I am not!


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 28, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*

I am searching High & low for the the true CP value of the longest throwing Incan spot light & I found this post:

*https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2389784&postcount=21


I hope RA doesn't mind me Quote his numbers here:

*"The highest cp-vallue I ever measured on a halogen spotlight was with the 130watt halogen Cyclops Platinum Thor 15M (Maxablaster host)
400,000 cp !
All smaller (halogen-) stock-spotlights only produce 100,000 - 250,000 cp (Thor 10M and others)"

Note that MagDaddy is also driven to 130Watt & achieved 
>400,000 cp with just 5.75" _diamete_ reflector (PAR46: Diameter = 46/8 =5.75"). The Thor has a 9" reflector?

Given this info., *perhaps someone could calculate the relative surface brightness of the HIR bulb vs. the halogen bulb? * 

I am curious as I couldn't find any data on HIR lamp surface brightness.


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## Mr. Tone (Sep 28, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*



saabluster said:


> My goodness man. You have got the flashaholic bug something fierce. Pretty soon you are going to be buying one of those anti-aircraft lights I can just see it.


 
He will end up with a WWII 60" Carbon Arc like BVH!  
Only instead of going into a spotlight advertising business he can take over the lighthouse operator's job, with his own lights of course.:devil:

Great stuff here, it has been a good read. That light must be putting off some serious heat, even though it didn't fry an egg.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 28, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1meter vs. HID beam shots-- Now Poof.*

Thanks,

Not much heat actually, it's running at 130W which is "lite" for hot wires, 
in a huge 6" alum. head, plus the HIR converted some heat to lumens.

In an attempt to gather some more useful info., I found this thread: 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230416

Review by selfbuilt, L35 HID =225,000 lux @ 1 meter. (Second from bottom)
Looks like most 35W HID won't be a match to magDaddy. 





I am in the process of upgrading to 75W HID, would like to gather TRU CP ([email protected]) measured on HID lights & put 
it on top of post #1 for reference, if anyone see any real numbers, let me know. (Not the mfg. claimed cp numbers).
.
.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 7, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam s*

Where does the surface brightness stands for the HIR vs. HID bulb still puzzles me. 
Since the HID has a 4" reflector & mag Daddy has 5.75" reflector, it's not quite a fair to compare the two surface brightness based on lux. 

I got some Diamond drill bits.





I drilled a hole at the bottom of the Poofed HIR lamp & stick in the H3 HID bulb. 
My Home made Sealed Beam PAR46 HID lamp :devil: 





Plug into the Mozo, it works & pretty darn bright.





I adjusted the bulb height until it has a pretty nice focus.
the beam pattern almost looks identical to the Mag daddy HIR.





However, I could already tell that even with the 5.75" reflector, the 35W HID still could not beat Mad Daddy.

Lux Measurement came out ~ 275,000 lux @ 1 meter. 
Given that the same Reflector are used between the two, I would conclude that *MagDaddy HIR lamp running at near poof point has Higher Surface Brightness than 35W HID lamp*.


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## saabluster (Oct 8, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam s*



ma_sha1 said:


> Where does the surface brightness stands for the HIR vs. HID bulb still puzzles me.
> Since the HID has a 4" reflector & mag Daddy has 5.75" reflector, it's not quite a fair to compare the two surface brightness based on lux.
> 
> I got some Diamond drill bits.



That was a really good idea! One thing is for certain however. If you take the HID and overdrive it like you are doing with the HIR the HID will be back on top. Good idea to get a sense of how the two compare though.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 8, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam s*



saabluster said:


> That was a really good idea! One thing is for certain however. If you take the HID and overdrive it like you are doing with the HIR the HID will be back on top. Good idea to get a sense of how the two compare though.



Thanks, saabluster,

Yes, If I have the balls to overdrive it to near poof, I am sure it'll come on top.
But I think I'll chicken out this time & stop at 75W. 

I am going to bump up the Mozo to 75W HID this weekend, 
got the 75W HID kits in for a few days now, just waiting for some free time. 

So, if I don't electricute myself during the process (knock on wood), 
I'll be back reporting the findings after the weekend, . :devil:

One thing to keep in mind is that 35W HID kits are rated by out-put power,
perhaps due to automotive industry regulations?

Most 55W & 75W HID kits (Illegal to use on cars, so they are out side of regulations?) are rated by input power (HID manufactures are cheating ). 

Assume 75%- 80% ballast efficiency, The Output power will be around 55-60W, not quite doubling the 35W. 
Also, not sure how will the lumen scale up with power on the HID lamp. Will it be linear? Or will it be less lumen increase vs power similar to LEDS? or will it be exponential growth scale up like the HIR near poof? 
I don't know. 

So, a 75W HID still may or may not be able to beat MagDaddy HIR surface brightness, it's not a shoe in at this pioint, the open ended possibilities is getting me excited thou.


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## circa (Oct 8, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam s*

Where did you get the 75w hid?


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 8, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam s*

from ebay


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## bigchelis (Oct 8, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam s*

Awesome...keep at it.lovecpf


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 9, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR : > 400,000 [email protected] 1 meter vs. 35W HID lighthouse beam s*

Thanks


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