# Why is the SureFire 6P so good?



## dutchguy2

Please can somone explain to me why this 6P is so damn good. I have several other lights like a Mag 5D, Mag 2C, a Fenix P3D, and some no name models. 

Some of them throw more light or have greater reach but none of them is overall so good as my P6!

Is it its size, is it the bulb, the looks, the feel, all of them??

What are your feelings about the 6P??


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## Tempest UK

dutchguy2 said:


> Is it its size, is it the bulb, the looks, the feel, all of them??
> 
> What are your feelings about the 6P??



Yup, I'd say it's all of them 

I really, really like the 6P. It is a really great design. A classic. Very simple, clean design. Great size and shape; it feels very good in the hand.

Its practicality is also very impressive. If the stock configuration is not to your liking, then the chances are that you can adjust it to how you want it. Add a KT1 TurboHead for vastly increased throw. Add an A19 extender and run it on three SF123a batteries, using the P90 or P91. With three cells you also have the option of using the KT2 TurboHead. Add a KR2 conversion kit and you have a rechargeable 6P. The recent release of the P60L lamp assembly has added further to the modularity of the 6P, allowing to to easy swap out the stock incandescent lamp assembly for an LED. Other models such as the 6PD, 6PN etc further allow you to get a 6P that is right for you.

Not to mention the fact that no light looks as good as a well worn 6P :thumbsup:

Regards,
Tempest


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## cenz

Tempest UK said:


> Yup, I'd say it's all of them
> 
> I really, really like the 6P. It is a really great design. A classic. Very simple, clean design. Great size and shape; it feels very good in the hand.
> 
> Its practicality is also very impressive. If the stock configuration is not to your liking, then the chances are that you can adjust it to how you want it. Add a KT1 TurboHead for vastly increased throw. Add an A19 extender and run it on three SF123a batteries, using the P90 or P91. With three cells you also have the option of using the KT2 TurboHead. Add a KR2 conversion kit and you have a rechargeable 6P. The recent release of the P60L lamp assembly has added further to the modularity of the 6P, allowing to to easy swap out the stock incandescent lamp assembly for an LED. Other models such as the 6PD, 6PN etc further allow you to get a 6P that is right for you.
> 
> Not to mention the fact that no light looks as good as a well worn 6P :thumbsup:
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest




Modular concept is powerful for upgrading. I think 6P is a standard component.


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## eshishlo

I don't that there are many other lights that have the package size as well as the power and the ease of customization that the 6P has. There are both incan and led option from dozens of companies. Plus, with a Pyrex lens and all aluminum construction, it can take the heat and the abuse.

It is also a very simple light. Think about it, the switch is momentary, not much to break. *If you get led, it basically indestructible!:twothumbs

*If you have it stolen or lose it, it can be replaced for around $50.


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## jefflrrp

I love my 6PL. Its beautiful.


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## ttran97

Plus, the 6P goes great with the Z2!


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## sgtgeo

upgrade to the C2


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## Cartman

dutchguy2 said:


> Please can somone explain to me why this 6P is so damn good. I have several other lights like a Mag 5D, Mag 2C, a Fenix P3D, and some no name models.
> 
> Some of them throw more light or have greater reach but none of them is overall so good as my P6!
> 
> Is it its size, is it the bulb, the looks, the feel, all of them??
> 
> What are your feelings about the 6P??



Among pretty big Surefire M/L/A/P collection are are a C3, C2/M2, but the 6P is still a darling. I don't EDC it because it they are a bit bulky compared to today's wonderfully bright EDC lights (Fenix) that I've switched to but I still love the 6P. Why, I don't know...When I break out my 16-year-old 6P (it does fanny pack time with a snubbie revolver) I'm amazed at how well it's held up.


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## captainzerocool

ttran97 said:


> Plus, the 6P goes great with the Z2!



What kinda case is that?


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## ttran97

captainzerocool said:


> What kinda case is that?



It's a Pelican 1060 Case. They don't come with foam, so you gotta order that separately for like 5 bucks or so. The case was $20 at Fry's, but can probably be found cheaper online. Water resistant, crushproof, dust proof. Details


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## dudemar

I love the very simple design, there's less that can go wrong. From an engineering and design standpoint it makes more sense, too. As the old adage goes, "don't fix it if it ain't broke"!

Dudemar


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## GarageBoy

6P and E2e will be SF's classics for years to come


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## woodlandmand105

I HAVE HAD MY 6P FOR LIKE 6 MONTHS AND IT IS A BEAUTIFUL LIGHT. LIKE TO OTHERS SAYED IT IS A CLASSIC. AND THE ALUMINUM I AWESOME. :twothumbs


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## jslappa

I also love the 6P. 

Like others, I also think the C2 is a logical upgrade to the 6P. It still fits the 6P sillouette, plus the convenience of a clip, lanyard, cigar ring and 4 flats for a better "Surefire" grip. 

Again, let me say that I love the 6P too.


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## carrot

GarageBoy said:


> 6P and E2e will be SF's classics for years to come


+1


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## ampdude

The 6P is great. I prefer the C2 though, for the HA finish and the better grip. To me it's worth the extra price of admission. I also like to align the filaments horizontally with the grip for the widest field of vision.

That's not always necessary though with most LED drop-ins and certain incan lamps. Aside from that, it just looks cool.


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## Captain Spaulding

The 6P Defender was my first high quality light and it is still used all the time but now with a Malkoff M60in it!


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## FlashKat

This thread is from 2007


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## JCD

The well thought out design, the quality manufacturing, the simplicity, the beam quality, the durability, the lamp and reflector as a single unit, the size (small enough to be pocketable yet big enough to offer sufficient throw for most common uses), reliability in extreme conditions, the company that stands behind each one, …

Need more reasons?


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## ampdude

FlashKat said:


> This thread is from 2007



Old does not equal bad and new does not equal good. This thread could be from 1987, it doesn't matter! The Surefire 6 and the 6P still stand among the all time great lights. The platform has proven the test of time. If you're uncomfortable with the quality or versatility, there are plenty of lights out there that are not easily upgradeable and have few aftermarket parts. Enjoy! :wave:


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## RedLED

I have several 6Ps, and they are still as good as ever. It is a nice size, not too big, not too small. 

Still one of the best ever, and even better with an LED drop in.


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## gallonoffuel

When you have so many imported lights blatantly copying the proven design of a light such as a 6P, you know there's a winning formula there. The size, fit and finish, operation, OEM service, output, reliability, modularity... you can't go wrong with these. Imitation is flattery, I suppose, although I call it stealing. 

Long live the 6P!


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## swampgator

ampdude said:


> This thread could be from 1987, it doesn't matter!


 
Except if it was from '87 we'd be talking about a Minimag!

I don't own a 6P but remember seeing my first back in 1992. Being a buck private in the army I couldn't afford it. But I did pick up an E2E a few years back and think it's a perfect light to have around.


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## RedLED

I had a friend tell me that the 6P is Surefire's top seller, still!

Can anyone confirm this? I would not be surprised at all.

Love the 6P!


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## Kestrel

Seldom can I post a "*+1*" to pretty nearly all the posts in a thread. :huh:


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## ampdude

swampgator said:


> Except if it was from '87 we'd be talking about a Minimag!



The Surefire 6 is the ancestor of the 6P and was available then.


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## nathan225

I bought a sure fire 6pL a few months ago and I love it thinking about geting it a dropin what what is the best led dropin for the 6p


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## JNewell

nathan225 said:


> I bought a sure fire 6pL a few months ago and I love it thinking about geting it a dropin what what is the best led dropin for the 6p



One word answer: anything from malkoffdevices.com

Longer answer: check the sticky at the top of the LED forum - lots of good choices.


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## nbp

I wish I used my 6PD with XRE dropin more often. :sigh:

I will agree that I love the build quality, the heft, the throw, all that on this light. And I would love for it to have that cool well used patina. But I HARDLY EVER use it. Don't hate me.  

Honestly, for me, it's too big. About the biggest light I carry and use regularly is my Milky L4, which is quite a bit narrower, and slightly shorter, and has a clip. I got the 6PD because of threads like this, but I just don't use it. Despite that, I don't really want to get rid of it either. Humph! :shrug:


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## JCD

nathan225 said:


> I bought a sure fire 6pL a few months ago and I love it thinking about geting it a dropin what what is the best led dropin for the 6p



P90 w/ 2x 16340 3.7 V cells or P91 w/ 2x IMR16340 cells, depending on whether you value brightness or runtime more.


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## Brigadier

IMHO, because of it's ability to have the lamp/bulb replaced. This goes for pretty much the whole SureFire line.

For instance - with an LED Olight, JetBeam, Fenix, etc... if your LED module dies for whatever reason, you can't simply drop in another one and move on. With the Surefire line, you just drop in another bulb/P60 module, and keep going.


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## swampgator

ampdude said:


> The Surefire 6 is the ancestor of the 6P and was available then.


 

Okay, well, then you force me to pull this out: We wouldn't be having this discussion cause the internet wasn't around and we were all just the goofy guys who liked flashlights.

Seriously though, when exactly did the Surefire 6 became available?


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## Bullzeyebill

swampgator said:


> Okay, well, then you force me to pull this out: We wouldn't be having this discussion cause the internet wasn't around and we were all just the goofy guys who liked flashlights.
> 
> Seriously though, when exactly did the Surefire 6 became available?



error


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## JCD

swampgator said:


> We wouldn't be having this discussion cause the internet wasn't around …





The internet was born over 40 years ago!


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## ampdude

swampgator said:


> Okay, well, then you force me to pull this out: We wouldn't be having this discussion cause the internet wasn't around and we were all just the goofy guys who liked flashlights.
> 
> Seriously though, when exactly did the Surefire 6 became available?



1987 :thumbsup:


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## RedLED

I have a SF 6 from the 80s. My daughter has it with her in her apartment in college.

Do I need to get it back?


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## kelmo

JCD said:


> The internet was born over 40 years ago!



Invented by Al Gore!

I love my beat up 6P! I love my beat up 9P even more!!!


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## JNewell

JCD said:


> The internet was born over 40 years ago!



Yes - he's thinking of the WWW. Some of us remember the pre-WWW internet, and computers with no GUI.


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## NE450No2

I still have and use my 2 original 6P's that I got when they were first introduced. I have been a confirmed SureFire user ever since.

The 6P is now a whole family of lights, handheld and weapon lights.

Factory bulbs in incandescent and LED as well as aftermarket bulbs, allow the 6P "series" as I call it erform just about any task that a small light would be used for, excet when you need a low lumen otion or a one 123 battery compact.

For ruggedness and General utility the 6P is hard to beat.

For handheld use with handguns, the lights with the syringe gri are the way to go.

For a less expensive General Purpose light there are the Nitrolon lights.

There are several models of SF Weapon Lights that use the P60 series bulb.

So, if most of your lights use the same battery and can use the same type of bulb, and you can change from LED to Incandescent, high to lower lumens, ie, pick lamps with the runtime/lumens you need, it makes you life a lot easier, IMHO.

I have more flashlights that use the P60 type of bulb than any other.


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## ampdude

RedLed said:


> I have a SF 6 from the 80s. My daughter has it with her in her apartment in college.
> 
> Do I need to get it back?



Yes, they are fairly rare and valueable nowadays. Get it back and buy her a new 6P.


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## RedLED

ampdude said:


> Yes, they are fairly rare and valueable nowadays. Get it back and buy her a new 6P.


 
I am. She will be getting the Surefire E2DL, so she can leave the bezel print in the forehead of some nut!:thumbsup:


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## RedLED

The nitrolon models are great too. I have a few of the yellow ones.

I still want a tan model. Love the tan.

I really need to conduct an inventory of all my Surefires to see how many I have.

When complete I will report

Signing Off, RL


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## etc




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## carrot

etc said:


>


That knurling looks wrong. I don't think that's a Genuine Surefire? The bezel is for sure and maybe even the tailcap, but I don't think the body is.


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## etc

You are right, I meant to comment that it's a 6P FiveMega clone, it's outer dimensions are exactly that of 6P but it can take a 18650 cell. In other words, it looks / acts like a 6P but can also take this Li-Ion in addition to 123, I like that. In fact I like the knurling a little better than stock as it has no flat sides and is a little more aggressive.

In any case, I tried many things but 6P or 6P clones make perfect EDC. It's just the right size and fit my hand perfectly. I tried 9P and thought it was just a bit too large - kept falling out of my pocket.


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## carrot

etc said:


> You are right, I meant to comment that it's a 6P FiveMega clone, it's outer dimensions are exactly that of 6P but it can take a 18650 cell. In other words, it looks / acts like a 6P but can also take this Li-Ion in addition to 123, I like that. In fact I like the knurling a little better than stock as it has no flat sides and is a little more aggressive.
> 
> In any case, I tried many things but 6P or 6P clones make perfect EDC. It's just the right size and fit my hand perfectly. I tried 9P and thought it was just a bit too large - kept falling out of my pocket.


I have one of Fivemega's 1x123 E-series bodies. Pretty nice.


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## Echo63

I too am a 6p fan
I carried one every night for around 6 years as a security guard, I still have it on my bedside table too, and it is currently waiting for a led dropin probably a p60l or a malkoff m61wl
I also have one with a kl3 head, an old round body in very good condition and a g2 floating around the house

They are a very versatile light, big enough for a god grip but small enough to be carried everyday and bright enough to do almost anything you need a flashlight for
Them there is the modular nature of the design, change lamp assemblies, add spacers, change switches and you should be able to find a combination that fits your needs

I am looking forward to my newest light an oveready 9p that is waiting for a moddoo triple
Although the triple might see some usage in my old beaten 6p too - I'm pretty surefire never intended to have a 700l 6p


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## Xacto

RedLed said:


> I am. She will be getting the Surefire E2DL, so she can leave the bezel print in the forehead of some nut!:thumbsup:


 That is the reason why I like the 6p series so much. :thumbsup: And the best thing is - if the bezel keeps sticking or the bulb is damaged - everything can be exchanged.


Cheers
Thorsten


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## nfetterly

JCD said:


> P90 w/ 2x 16340 3.7 V cells or P91 w/ 2x IMR16340 cells, depending on whether you value brightness or runtime more.



Yep the 2xIMR16340s with P91 - most bought on the market place for as little as 2/$15 shipped (I did a WTB), than put a AW softstart 3 level switch in the tail. I use it in an industrial site & keep 2 sets of spare batteries in my drawer.


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## Toohotruk

I love my trusty 6P for all of the reasons listed above...looks cool, feels good in the hand, unlimited possibilities for upgrade. My 6P has had many LED drop-ins over the last few years, as of right now, it has a Malkoff M61.

I have a C2-HA coming in the mail which should get here in the next couple of days. I'm a little worried that my old friend the 6P will get neglected...it will always have a special place in my heart though. And something tells me I'll be able to find time to use it in one form or another.


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## TwitchALot

What surprises me is that the 6P uses type II anodizing instead of type III. Otherwise, I'd be far more interested in it. Anyone know why this is? Does the anodizing difference make a 40+ dollar difference?


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## ebow86

TwitchALot said:


> What surprises me is that the 6P uses type II anodizing instead of type III. Otherwise, I'd be far more interested in it. Anyone know why this is? Does the anodizing difference make a 40+ dollar difference?


 

I have thought about this myself. I'm not really sure why any surefire lights use type II, why not make all lights type III? A type III 6P would be pretty sweet though.


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## etc

TwitchALot said:


> What surprises me is that the 6P uses type II anodizing instead of type III. Otherwise, I'd be far more interested in it. Anyone know why this is? Does the anodizing difference make a 40+ dollar difference?



Looking at the FiveMega body in my pic above, which is type III, it has held up really well and still looks almost mint. The Surefire tailcap, Z41, has noticeable wear however. The type II doesn't hold up to intensive wear. Thinking of taking the whole thing and putting some kind of tough finish on it, like NP3.


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## JNewell

ebow86 said:


> I have thought about this myself. I'm not really sure why any surefire lights use type II, why not make all lights type III? A type III 6P would be pretty sweet though.



1. Cost. HA is more expensive.
2. Cosmetics. Natural HA results in multi-shade lights, black HA does not wear as well as natural Ha.
3. Function. Type II vs. type III is, I submit, a cosmetics issue. It doesn't affect the light's function or service life. I honestly don't see any compelling need. I have in my pocket right now a 6Z that I bought in/around 1998 and it still works perfectly, and its finish wear doesn't keep it from being my best choice for its EDC role.

I guess YMMV, and that's fine.


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## Toohotruk

I think 6Ps look cool with some wear on them myself...


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## Tempest UK

Toohotruk said:


> I think 6Ps look cool with some wear on them myself...



Exactly.


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## nanomu

Toohotruk said:


> I think 6Ps look cool with some wear on them myself...



Thirded!

I love my 6P. It's the definition of a "standard light". It's not fancy, and that's exactly the point. I don't feel badly for getting it beat up or dropping it. I feel like I'm probably the only one who still uses the stock P60 bulb, which I still find useful. Why is it still popular? Just look at all the modding and lego options.


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## Toohotruk

The stock P60 puts out a beautiful beam, and is very useful...I just couldn't afford to feed it. Aftermarket drop-ins solve this problem.


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## Chrontius

nanomu said:


> Thirded!
> 
> I love my 6P. It's the definition of a "standard light". It's not fancy, and that's exactly the point. I don't feel badly for getting it beat up or dropping it. I feel like I'm probably the only one who still uses the stock P60 bulb, which I still find useful. Why is it still popular? Just look at all the modding and lego options.



I've switched my 6R back over to P60s. I forgot how good it was, and now I don't have to pay to feed it.


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## Screwball

I am a 6P fan I acquired a second hand one with an led drop in .But my question is this if I get another 6P can I run it with a 9p bulb and re-chargeable batteries 
I was thinking that 2 RCR 3-7 volt cells would work but I am not technically minded so would appreciate any advice from those in the know
Cheers


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## ElectronGuru

Screwball said:


> my question is this if I get another 6P can I run it with a 9p bulb and re-chargeable batteries



Yes. The P90 and even the P91 run very well on a pair of IMR16340's.


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## Brigadier

Screwball said:


> I am a 6P fan I acquired a second hand one with an led drop in .But my question is this if I get another 6P can I run it with a 9p bulb and re-chargeable batteries
> I was thinking that 2 RCR 3-7 volt cells would work but I am not technically minded so would appreciate any advice from those in the know
> Cheers


 

For some real wow factor, get a LF IMR-9 and a pair IMR16340's. 500 bulb lumens/325 OTF!!!


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## Screwball

Brigadier said:


> For some real wow factor, get a LF IMR-9 and a pair IMR16340's. 500 bulb lumens/325 OTF!!!



Please excuse my ignorance but what is the bulb you mentioned I have found the batteries but the bulb is a mystery to me .I am guessing the runtime would be in single figures but it would be fun to show off:devil:


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## fivemega

Brigadier said:


> For some real wow factor, get a LF IMR-9 and a pair IMR16340's. 500 bulb lumens/325 OTF!!!



*1794 produces about 1000 bulb lumens from 2 IMR16340 and is brightest available bulb for "C" and "E" series.

Luxluthor shoot out*


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## Screwball

Thats some scary stuff guys :thumbsup:I am looking to keep to a 6P for edc purpose need an hour runtime or a wee bit more it will be used for dog walking through some heavily wooded areas .Lighting up streets late at night,checking around my property etc 
Prefer incan and need something bright add that to my SF love and you can see why I found my way here


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## Black Rose

Screwball said:


> I am guessing the runtime would be in single figures but it would be fun to show off:devil:


Runtime is listed as 10 minutes with IMR 16340 cells.


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## Brigadier

Screwball said:


> Please excuse my ignorance but what is the bulb you mentioned I have found the batteries but the bulb is a mystery to me .I am guessing the runtime would be in single figures but it would be fun to show off:devil:


 
http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Fa...e-C-P-Z-Series-IMR-Batteries-ONLY_p_2836.html


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## Brigadier

Screwball said:


> Thats some scary stuff guys :thumbsup:I am looking to keep to a 6P for edc purpose need an hour runtime or a wee bit more it will be used for dog walking through some heavily wooded areas .Lighting up streets late at night,checking around my property etc
> Prefer incan and need something bright add that to my SF love and you can see why I found my way here


 
Bright incan
1 hour run time 
SF 6P sized light

Pick two.

The standard P60 will run for about an hour, but is only rated at 65 lumens IIRC.

To meet all your requirements, I recommend going to a 3X123 light:

http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Factory-Seraph-SP-9LED-Single-Mode-Flashlight_p_3218.html

http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Factory-D36-Mini-Turbo-Head-Assembly_p_3212.html

http://www.lighthound.com/Lumens-Factory-SR-9L-D36-9-volt-320-Lumens-Lamp-Assembly_p_1034.html

http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR18500-1100mAh-LiMN-rechargeable-lithium-battery_p_3004.html

It will look something like this:


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## scout24

Five year bump on a thread that could have been started yesterday. Should be a sticky and required reading for new members...  Not a post here to steer you in the wrong direction.


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## bykfixer

The other day a police officer showed me his old 6p incan. He turned it on aiming in my direction without warning. Ugh! 
My buddy has been trying to convince me to find a 9p. Better run time and all that. 

But I prefer the 6p sized flashlight in general. 

Well after the blue spots had settled in my eyes (to occasional) I ordered a new 6p original. Then for runtime with near the same output I ordered a Malkoff M61 WLL the next day. 

The P60 bulb being rated at 65 lumens and the M61 at 75. But instead of an hour on a pair of 123's it should last 10!... Mr. Malkoff says it's a blinder at 30' and shines brightly to 100'. Nice!

I know from recent experience the P60 bulb blinds at 5' in broad daylight!!!!

I also purchased a Malkoff/McGizmo clicky for it with the ability to tail stand (and room to drill a small hole for a lanyard) The 6p is so mod friendly. 

If wear of the finish becomes an issue I'll spray on a couple of light coats of car paint and sun bake it a few days.

Those G2 series are pretty cool too. I like the tan X Pro that that starts out at 15 lumens of creamy colored incan looking goodness of well defined light and packs a wallop at 320 when needed/wanted.

Edit: It arrived. Yaaay!!!
Love, Love, Love my new 6P. The warm creamy beam is so friendly, so gentle before it stings a bad guys eyeballs...then a 1-1/4" or so ring tattoo on their face...so nice. 

Malkoff parts on the way, and soon, more P60's for when I'm in the mood for some 1990's stone age battery powered sunshine!








^^ an hour later it was already modified.


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## RobertMM

Love mine, just put a Sportac triple Nichia in it.

Needs a new rubber boot though, mine is worn smooth with age and use.


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## Timothybil

Brigadier said:


> Bright incan
> 1 hour run time
> SF 6P sized light
> 
> Pick two.
> 
> The standard P60 will run for about an hour, but is only rated at 65 lumens IIRC.


I agree that the Seraph 9 with the D36 head would be a nice light, but a stock 6P with a couple of CR123a cells and a Lumens Factory HO-6 will get one 160 Lumens for 50 minutes. If you do want to go LED get the D26 triple mode module in Neutral White or 90+ CRI and get 400 lumens of goodness for an hour, and more with the lower modes.


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## bykfixer

If you must stay incan and like the P60 brightness, Panasonic batteries are where it's at.
All those 'USA' made batteries by sure fire, battery station etc are made by Panasonic. But the best get the Panasonic label.

If you don't mind going LED, the Malkoff Warm, low, low (M61WLL) drop in puts out a smidge brighter, nice warm tint with a 10 hour runtime.
The M61WL is noticeably brighter with a 5 hour runtime. The tint imo looks like the 6P beam when batteries start to give out. Nice, nice incan look. 

Or his Neutral (M61NL) puts out a nice bright beam, that looks a lot like the 6P incan with fresh batteries. Pierces darkness a little better imo. Also 5 hour run time.

My favorite with the 6P is the incan bulb (P60) with a Malkoff M61WLL in a photo finish for 2nd.


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## Swedpat

I really like Surefire 6P(and 9P). Nice design. Good hold comfort. Simple and perfect for modification. All of my 6Ps, Z2, and C2 have LED dropins, but one of my(bored) 9Ps I use with the stock bulb runned by 2x18500 cells.


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## Charlie Fox

I bought a 6P when they first came out as my backup flashlight when I was in LE. It impressed me with its brightness and portability. I finally gave it to a buddy after I upgraded if to LED. 20 years old and going strong today!


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## ganymede

bykfixer said:


> ^^ an hour later it was already modified.



A bit curious on your mod there, does drilling a hole in the tailcap compromise the water tightness of the light?


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## bykfixer

Nope....not if you don't drill in it too far.

If memory serves I drilled a 45° hole...
But I've done several different style tail caps, so I'll dig it up and see what I did to that style.


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## ganymede

Interesting! Didn't know there is so much material at the radii you can take out without penetrating the internal of the tailcap. Any particular reason you chose this attachment point over the stock lanyard ring and lanyard?


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## bykfixer

Not trying to sound like a smarty pants. But...

I just wanted to see if it could be done. 

I figured this particular light was a toy to me so if I punctured it, not like I need it to be water proof, or worried about voiding the warranty. I had figured it would use a clicky if needed to become water tight.

Well that and I didn't want to pay $13 for a sure fire lanyard, even though I had spent $60 (+s&h) on the light and $50 (shipped) on a drop in. lol.

So what I did was a 3/64 bit and drilled vertically and horizontally about a 16th of an inch deep (or there-abouts). 
This was about an 1/8" from the top, and about same from the edge vertically. 
Then wollered that out with a 5/64th. 
Then back to the 3/64th was used at a 45 to connect the holes. 
Then a 7/64th was used at a 45 to make it large enough for the lanyard. 

Before this one I'd used 1/8th inch bits. Yet using a right angle dental pick to pull the lanyard attachment cord showed me 7/64th's is enough.

The final hole was a sorta "C" shaped.


----------



## Toohotruk

WOW! I never would have guessed there would be enough material for this kind of mod. That's what I like about these forums...there's always someone willing to try new mods and then share them here. :twothumbs


----------



## Kestrel

I like that lanyard mod, good work. We have yet to find the ultimate limits for these classic lights. :thumbsup:


----------



## ganymede

bykfixer said:


> Not trying to sound like a smarty pants. But...
> 
> I just wanted to see if it could be done.
> 
> I figured this particular light was a toy to me so if I punctured it, not like I need it to be water proof, or worried about voiding the warranty. I had figured it would use a clicky if needed to become water tight.
> 
> Well that and I didn't want to pay $13 for a sure fire lanyard, even though I had spent $60 (+s&h) on the light and $50 (shipped) on a drop in. lol.
> 
> So what I did was a 3/64 bit and drilled vertically and horizontally about a 16th of an inch deep (or there-abouts).
> This was about an 1/8" from the top, and about same from the edge vertically.
> Then wollered that out with a 5/64th.
> Then back to the 3/64th was used at a 45 to connect the holes.
> Then a 7/64th was used at a 45 to make it large enough for the lanyard.
> 
> Before this one I'd used 1/8th inch bits. Yet using a right angle dental pick to pull the lanyard attachment cord showed me 7/64th's is enough.
> 
> The final hole was a sorta "C" shaped.



Thank you for the detailed explanation. Didn't your 6P comes with lanyard ring and lanyard?


----------



## bykfixer

Actually no it didn't.

Nor a sticker.

But I found Elzetta has nice rings for $3.75 each so I bought a slew of those, then my buddy sent me some he found on ebay with a couple of adjustable lanyards...after 20 more of the 5 for $1.95 kind showed up...

No more drilling for lanyards.

But to date I did a G2 twisty cap, a 6p twisty, all 3 of my G2x pro's and a Malkoff/McGizmo tail cap. I'll have to go back to the Lego or Tips n Tricks threads to see if there were any others.

Just wanted to see it could be done.

The 6P was a great light from the time they were called "6" or 6c until now. 
With todays lumen wars and LED tech it's a light that is easily over looked. 
But when a young (weisenheimer) police officer showed me his 6P with an incan bulb..by blinding me in broad daylight..from about 8' away I went to Amazon and bought one after no longer see-ing blue spots enough to see my computer screen.

It's pretty much still the benchmark of flashlights for durability, easy carry, and general fool proof design.

Btw thanks for the compliments. Yeah there are still some mods yet to be thought of. Another thing that makes the 6p so good.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

This thread needs more pictures. 

~ Chance


----------



## Timothybil

Where'd you get the orange G2? Is that ceracoat? Whatever it is, it looks sharp.


----------



## bykfixer

More pix you say?




Family photo: The 6P and it's offspring




^^ this one got an Elzetta lanyard ring


----------



## Up All Night

I would run away from any 16340 battery that "proudly" displayed its capacity as 2200 mAh.


----------



## ganymede

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> This thread needs more pictures.
> 
> ~ Chance











6P-GM NRA Edition with a Malkoff M361N-LMH (I know this is the Incan forum )


----------



## novice

ChaunceyG, 
That orange 6P is absolutely gorgeous, and it was a nice touch matching up the stainless steel bezel ring with the stainless steel lanyard ring. I use to think that protective bezel rings were just a frill, until the day I dropped a C3 from shoulder level, it hit a metal flange, and it dented the lip of the bezel enough to almost interfere with removing the existing plastic bezel ring, and putting in a stainless replacement. Lesson learned.


----------



## yellow

i very often ranted about that *flimsy* joke of a lip with the "new" hex bezel.
While there noone else seems to have that problem.
But i was used to the old, round 6Ps, that simply are way better in that regard.

MY orange oveready - as well as a black 6P I recommended to a friend "for SFs robustness" - got a dent (I dont know from what) and his light, not a single time used but inside the backpack for some time, was extremely dented...

*Without the big bezel rings the new hex bezels are in no way robust, immediately get one when You plan to use the light.*


PS: the title of the thread is misleading

the 6P, when bored for 18650, was and is one of the best HOST LIGHTS at the moment, but in original state it ...


----------



## scout24

I don't know, yellow. Nailbender and Malkoff make dropins that run 6v no problem, 2x imr 16340's pump out some amps,and the new high discharge 16650's hold a lot of promise. The ol' girl ain't done yet... 

I still use a P60 lamp for walking my dog more than occasionally, it holds up pretty well here in 2015...


----------



## ganymede

Up All Night said:


> I would run away from any 16340 battery that "proudly" displayed its capacity as 2200 mAh.



^this!


----------



## InvisibleFrodo

My ONLY little complaint about the 6p is that I have a wonderful titanium pocket clip for it made by Prometheus Lights, however the knurling on the body of the light is so aggressive that it will abrade your pocket taking it in and out. I'm hoping that over ready will re-release the "shaved" body again. They offered it as a whole host light, but I waited too long...


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Timothybil said:


> Where'd you get the orange G2? Is that ceracoat? Whatever it is, it looks sharp.





novice said:


> ChaunceyG,
> That orange 6P is absolutely gorgeous, and it was a nice touch matching up the stainless steel bezel ring with the stainless steel lanyard ring. I use to think that protective bezel rings were just a frill, until the day I dropped a C3 from shoulder level, it hit a metal flange, and it dented the lip of the bezel enough to almost interfere with removing the existing plastic bezel ring, and putting in a stainless replacement. Lesson learned.



Thanks guys. It was purchased a few years ago from the fine folks at Oveready. There's nothing wrong with adding a little bling, but yes, it does add a great deal of protection.

~ Chance


----------



## Grijon

LOVE the photos ~ what a great thread!


----------



## bykfixer

InvisibleFrodo said:


> My ONLY little complaint about the 6p is that I have a wonderful titanium pocket clip for it made by Prometheus Lights, however the knurling on the body of the light is so aggressive that it will abrade your pocket taking it in and out. I'm hoping that over ready will re-release the "shaved" body again. They offered it as a whole host light, but I waited too long...



Plasti dip that sucka.


----------



## kj2

Does someone know, what the max Amp is, that the standard 6P switch can handle?


----------



## scs

kj2 said:


> Does someone know, what the max Amp is, that the standard 6P switch can handle?



It worked just fine at 3.04A for me. See if anyone else has gone higher without problems.


----------



## Greenbean

Pretty sure about 3 amps is the highest you wanna go. 

Now if you need more you certainly can get replacement innards for that.


----------



## bykfixer

Flash back to a time when Back to the Future and Beverly Hills Cop were playing at drive in theatres, 
Chicks still had big hair and MTV still played music videos....the Ford Thunderbird still had a hood nearly as big as many Hyndai cars. A movie star was the President of the US. 'Cheap' goods came from Japan or Malaysia, the Cold War had just ended, and Mag Lite was king of the flashlight jungle.

The 6 (now called 6P) was born at a time when there was no other light like it. 
There were some that were sturdy...but they could double as a billy club.
And there were some that were modular, but not made of uber sturdy parts.
There were even some small lights back then.

But the combination of all of the above was not available yet. And the P60 bulb flat out destroyed most other lights in output at the time. Yet it held up pretty good when the light was put through rigerous abuse. 
The twisty switch was super duper reliable and for such a bright light it gave a whopping 60 minutes of brightness...for such a small, bright light that was unheard of at that time. 

It was so amazing that in time millions were sold. Flashlight modders toying with LED were trying out parts for several brands, but stayed so busy filling 6P orders they all but abandoned the other brands.

Streamlight tried to play and had a good piece of the market. But little by little the SureFire 6, 6C and later 6P were the choice when the light absolutely had to be small and reliable. 

Sometimes a product comes along that just hits..the Chuck Taylor sneaker, and the Ford 9" rear are both technology from the 50's and 60's. 
Levis jeans, the baseball cap...both are over 100 years old. Bic lighters and Kingsford charcoal...
And in the world of flashlights the SureFire 6P.


----------



## NoNotAgain

bykfixer said:


> Flash back to a time when Back to the Future and Beverly Hills Cop were playing at drive in theatres,
> Chicks still had big hair and MTV still played music videos....the Ford Thunderbird still had a hood nearly as big as many Hyndai cars. A movie star was the President of the US. 'Cheap' goods came from Japan or Malaysia, the Cold War had just ended, and Mag Lite was king of the flashlight jungle.
> 
> It was so amazing that in time millions were sold. Flashlight modders toying with LED were trying out parts for several brands, but stayed so busy filling 6P orders they all but abandoned the other brands.
> Bic lighters and Kingsford charcoal...
> And in the world of flashlights the SureFire 6P.



The thing that the 6P and for that matter all Surefire lights had going against it was the CR123 battery. 

I have a few Eotech 552 holographic sights. I paid more to purchase the Eotech sights that used alkaline batteries because they were available everywhere, while I had to go to the local Cop Shop to get CR123 batteries @$7 each.

Kel-Lite, Mag, Streamlight, and Surefire were for the most part lights that only LE personnel purchased.


----------



## chewy78

dutchguy2 said:


> Please can somone explain to me why this 6P is so damn good. I have several other lights like a Mag 5D, Mag 2C, a Fenix P3D, and some no name models.
> 
> Some of them throw more light or have greater reach but none of them is overall so good as my P6!
> 
> Is it its size, is it the bulb, the looks, the feel, all of them??
> 
> What are your feelings about the 6P??



It just is


----------



## JohnnyBravo

I just received a new 6P. I plan to use a 16650 cell in it; so right off the charger it's at 4.2 volts. And with the supplied 2xCR123s it's about 6 volts. Even though the voltage of the 16650 is lower, would any difference of current delivery hurt the OEM P60 bulb? Or just a slightly dimmer output?


----------



## peter yetman

Just a dimmer bulb. Think of what happens when your primaries run down to 3.7v - just dimmer.
P


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Oh, ok thanks. I think I was thinking of certain flashlights that are designed to run on alkalines only, and if one used NIMHs, the higher current hurts the light...


----------



## JohnnyBravo

One more question. I googled several times and can't find the candela or beam distance w/ the OEM bulb. Anyone know what it is?


----------



## scout24

Flashlightreviews shows 4000 lux.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Very good, thank you. So with 4000 lux, that seems to be about 126 meters. Not bad for an incan...


----------



## Timothybil

JohnnyBravo said:


> I just received a new 6P. I plan to use a 16650 cell in it; so right off the charger it's at 4.2 volts. And with the supplied 2xCR123s it's about 6 volts. Even though the voltage of the 16650 is lower, would any difference of current delivery hurt the OEM P60 bulb? Or just a slightly dimmer output?


Several members have reported very good results with a P90 or other 9v drop in with two Li-ion cells, in this case probably 16340 cells. This is most often done in a 9P or other three primary cell light with two 1n500 cells, but it should work just as well in a 6P with two 1n340.


----------



## scs

JohnnyBravo said:


> Very good, thank you. So with 4000 lux, that seems to be about 126 meters. Not bad for an incan...



Best not to put too much stock in the 126 m. I say its spot is bright enough up to 100 feet.
The spill is too dim, spot too small. I find it good for neither close up nor short to medium spotting.


----------



## bykfixer

A 6P incan can blind in about a 35- 50' radius, but you can easily see your dog running around the length of football field.

I can see my neighbors white garage 500' away with it and not know it's there without it.


----------



## scs

bykfixer said:


> A 6P incan can blind in about a 35- 50' radius, but you can easily see your dog running around the length of football field.
> 
> I can see my neighbors white garage 500' away with it and not know it's there without it.



Well, there's lux directed straight into the eyes, then there's lux reflected off of object illuminated.

On paper, 0.48 lux on target (dog with non-reflective coat) from 300 ft away, so probably even fewer lux reflected back to the eyes.

On paper, 0.17 lux on target (garage, more reflective because it's white) 500 ft away.

If that's enough, good for you. Not sure that's GOOD ENOUGH for most though.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ woah, woah, woah!!!
Where'd all that come from?

Was putting things in real world terms not some theoretical test bench numbers...

I can see my neighbors non shiney black cat sitting on the neighbors dark green van parked in front of the garage I mentioned with a P60. 

Am I saying that's good enough for others? Well actually no I'm not. I'm just saying "to me it puts out light fairly well at 500'...
don't know what that reads on a flat piece of paper though...


----------



## scs

bykfixer said:


> ^^ woah, woah, woah!!!
> Where'd all that come from?
> 
> Was putting things in real world terms not some theoretical test bench numbers...
> 
> Wow!!!



Lux is already low on paper, so likely even lower in real world terms.
Might not be enough for most is all I'm saying, not on paper, not in actual use.
Just want to curb expectations, is all.


----------



## bykfixer

Sure, it's not enough in real world. I totally get that.

I was just saying it's a whole lot brighter than folks tend to think of the good old incan beam. 

The 6P was not your fathers Rayovac. 

That's a play on a phrase from a time when greatly improved automobiles at the time were refered to as 'not your fathers oldsmobile' invoking a clunky old underpowered, sloppy handling family car. And 'your fathers rayovac' invokes mid 70's flashlight magnetized to the refridgerator that you had to smack on your hands from time to time to keep it working.

That little SureFire changed all that.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

I've read that one takes the lux, 4000, and divides that by .25 and then take the square root of that. Which is how I got 126 meters; which is supposed to be beam distance as defined by ANSI/FL1...?


scs said:


> Best not to put too much stock in the 126 m. I say its spot is bright enough up to 100 feet.
> The spill is too dim, spot too small. I find it good for neither close up nor short to medium spotting.


----------



## tab665

i dont think 4000 lux is correct. but i often used a lumen factory LA, so maybe im remembering incorrectly.


----------



## scs

JohnnyBravo said:


> I've read that one takes the lux, 4000, and divides that by .25 and then take the square root of that. Which is how I got 126 meters; which is supposed to be beam distance as defined by ANSI/FL1...?



That's the right relationship. The 0.25 stands for 0.25 lux. 4000 is the CD, which is equivalent to lux at 1 meter. So, on paper, 4,000 CD puts 0.25 lux, or 0.25 lumens per square meter, on target at 126 meters away. How much of that actually makes it back to your eyes depends on a number of factors, but suffice it is to say, you won't see much with only 0.25 lux on target.


----------



## scs

tab665 said:


> i dont think 4000 lux is correct. but i often used a lumen factory LA, so maybe im remembering incorrectly.



I had a XRE R2 P60 that's in the high 8,000 CD, so if anything 4,000 might be a bit high.


----------



## Grijon

Regarding lux and candela, this short thread may be very useful. I've read it before, but TEEJ's post is excellent information for me to read again!

And more, with one more two posts down.


----------



## scout24

Numbers aside, I find the P60 adequate at 100yds to pick out individual trees in my back yard, and identify deer at that same distance before seeing their reflective eyes. May not be able to discern buck or doe, but I can tell you it's deer, not bear, coyote, or a person. Not bad for a module unchanged in 26+ years. If you need more, the P61 runs in the same host, on the same cells. Thread is about the 6P's merits, not necessarily the P60... Though I enjoy the discussion!


----------



## bykfixer

^^ thanks Scout...you make my point perfectly
The links are a great resource. (Edit: referring to post 120, seems #121 slid in while I was typing. lol)

I'd like to add that depending on where you reside can make perceptions change as well. Doesn't change the numbers mind you, just perceptions of the user.

I live in a well lit city with lots of light pollution. So everything has a small glow unless it's under say a tree, a bush, carport etc. Theoretically speaking when I step outside the world I see in general has say...2 lux. So when I add a lux or two the certain flashlight appears to illuminate objects a tad better in some cases being it's already partially lit.
Yet with all that light pollution shining a beam in a shadow may cause my eyes to think it's not as bright as it actually is. It's much worse on a cloudy night as darkness has a pink tone to it from all that light pollution. So night vision adapts. 

When I lived 45 miles out of the city, on full moonlit nights us city folks would pull our hat down to shade our eyes. On a moonless night looking at the stars made me squint. On a cloudy night you couldn't see your hand outstretched in front of your face. 
So when I lived there a P60 aimed at you after dark from 150' away would blind you. You'd remark "holy crap what's with the light?!" but the light carrier would have trouble distinguishing who you are at that distance if wearing dark clothing. 

Where I live now the person carrying the light can easily ID someone at that distance using a P60 yet the person on the other end of the light remarks "aint that cute, an incan." 

Basically if one is in an urban combat situation the P60 may do just fine. Yet in a total lights out scenario that ole gal may not do the trick.

But back in the incan days the 6, 6C and 6P were mighty fine compact flashlights. In terms of lights from that era I think the Streamlight TL 2 shockproof was better, however it didn't _stay_ popular like the SureFire.


----------



## Grijon

scout24 said:


> ...the P61...



Oh my goodness, somewhere along the way I completely forgot about this. Now I "need" one to see it on a 16650! LOL, thanks, scout24 :laughing:


----------



## kj2

Mine could be here (but really should  ) tomorrow  than it's just waiting for the Malkoff to arrive


----------



## scout24

Grijon said:


> Oh my goodness, somewhere along the way I completely forgot about this. Now I "need" one to see it on a 16650! LOL, thanks, scout24 :laughing:



Don't forget a P90 on a pair of AW IMR 123's in your 6P...


----------



## Grijon

scout24 said:


> Don't forget a P90 on a pair of AW IMR 123's in your 6P...




Yessssss...!


----------



## bykfixer

kj2 said:


> Mine could be here (but really should  ) tomorrow  than it's just waiting for the Malkoff to arrive



Shoots! Scores!!! IT'S A 3 POINTER!! Woohoo!


----------



## etc

NoNotAgain said:


> The thing that the 6P and for that matter all Surefire lights had going against it was the CR123 battery.
> 
> I have a few Eotech 552 holographic sights. I paid more to purchase the Eotech sights that used alkaline batteries because they were available everywhere, while I had to go to the local Cop Shop to get CR123 batteries @$7 each.
> .



Necrobump of the decade... Yeah I know 2007 called and they want the thread back. But given this is two thousand sixteen,

There is a solution to your problem: Surefire 9P. As it happens, it can take 2xAA alkalines if you wrap them in something - I use three $1 bills and the fit is perfect. You have to get a medium powered module, I would not go higher than Malkoff M61L, and myself I run either M61LL or M61LLL in them. You get similar lumens out of M61LL and decent runtime 10+ times longer than incan 6P (P60) 

but anyway, who buys 123s in the grocery store? You buy them in bulk for about a buck a piece.

So, Surefire 9P is gooder than 6P. 

Longer more comfortable grip

Better runtime

Takes 3x123 or 2xAA cells

Bigger number is always better and signifies more power. To an uninformed mind, nine > six. I wish I could buy 12P but they don't make it. (12P would presumably take 4x123 cells).

Also don't forget, 3 cells are always more efficient than 2. You get more than 1.5 times the runtime out of them.


----------



## bykfixer

etc said:


> Necrobump of the decade... Yeah I know 2007 called and they want the thread back. But given this is two thousand sixteen,
> 
> There is a solution to your problem: Surefire 9P. As it happens, it can take 2xAA alkalines if you wrap them in something - I use three $1 bills and the fit is perfect. You have to get a medium powered module, I would not go higher than Malkoff M61L, and myself I run either M61LL or M61LLL in them. You get similar lumens out of M61LL and decent runtime 10+ times longer than incan 6P (P60)
> 
> but anyway, who buys 123s in the grocery store? You buy them in bulk for about a buck a piece.
> 
> So, Surefire 9P is gooder than 6P.
> 
> Longer more comfortable grip
> 
> Better runtime
> 
> Takes 3x123 or 2xAA cells
> 
> Bigger number is always better and signifies more power. To an uninformed mind, nine > six. I wish I could buy 12P but they don't make it. (12P would presumably take 4x123 cells).
> 
> Also don't forget, 3 cells are always more efficient than 2. You get more than 1.5 times the runtime out of them.



I haven't seen 123's in grocery stores since....


----------



## NoNotAgain

etc said:


> Necrobump of the decade... Yeah I know 2007 called and they want the thread back. But given this is two thousand sixteen,
> 
> but anyway, who buys 123s in the grocery store? You buy them in bulk for about a buck a piece.



Recall what I posted. 

Surefire sold the 6P to primarily LEO's and the military. The CR123 wasn't a common battery, still isn't in most parts of the world. 

I design and build electronics sold to the military and government agencies. I fought to use the CR 123 lithium battery, and if not the CR123, then a lithium primary AA battery. 

Nope, they have switched the supply chain to alkaline AA cells. 

Not sure where your purchasing quality CR123's for a buck each, but I purchase Surefire branded batteries from Battery Junction, and best price I can get is $1.55 each purchasing 24 at a time.


----------



## Greenbean

NoNotAgain said:


> Nope, they have switched the supply chain to alkaline AA cells.



But is that because as far as LEDs are concerned we are getting better and better with emitter efficiency and output?

Being able to produce great/usable output from something that can stay lit longer and use less energy doing it. 

I love my incans but I have a string pulling me in the direction of the newer AA weapons light for my AR. I have so many Eneloops it just makes sense.


----------



## bykfixer

etc said:


> Necrobump of the decade... Yeah I know 2007 called and they want the thread back. But given this is two thousand sixteen,
> 
> There is a solution to your problem: Surefire 9P. As it happens, it can take 2xAA alkalines if you wrap them in something - I use three $1 bills and the fit is perfect. You have to get a medium powered module, I would not go higher than Malkoff M61L, and myself I run either M61LL or M61LLL in them. You get similar lumens out of M61LL and decent runtime 10+ times longer than incan 6P (P60)
> 
> but anyway, who buys 123s in the grocery store? You buy them in bulk for about a buck a piece.
> 
> So, Surefire 9P is gooder than 6P.
> 
> Longer more comfortable grip
> 
> Better runtime
> 
> Takes 3x123 or 2xAA cells
> 
> Bigger number is always better and signifies more power. To an uninformed mind, nine > six. I wish I could buy 12P but they don't make it. (12P would presumably take 4x123 cells).
> 
> Also don't forget, 3 cells are always more efficient than 2. You get more than 1.5 times the runtime out of them.





NoNotAgain said:


> Recall what I posted.
> 
> Surefire sold the 6P to primarily LEO's and the military. The CR123 wasn't a common battery, still isn't in most parts of the world.
> 
> I design and build electronics sold to the military and government agencies. I fought to use the CR 123 lithium battery, and if not the CR123, then a lithium primary AA battery.
> 
> Nope, they have switched the supply chain to alkaline AA cells.
> 
> Not sure where your purchasing quality CR123's for a buck each, but I purchase Surefire branded batteries from Battery Junction, and best price I can get is $1.55 each purchasing 24 at a time.



I think that was op trying to show off his charming wit NNA.


Btw a 2016 buck 55 is a way better price than a mid 90's $7 and a much better battery.


----------



## Timothybil

Greenbean said:


> But is that because as far as LEDs are concerned we are getting better and better with emitter efficiency and output?
> 
> Being able to produce great/usable output from something that can stay lit longer and use less energy doing it.
> 
> I love my incans but I have a string pulling me in the direction of the newer AA weapons light for my AR. I have so many Eneloops it just makes sense.


I think it has more to do with the fact that at large quantities one can get name brand alkalines for less than $0.25 each. I bought some from Amazon at that price for 36, think what price point I could get if I wanted two million.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ I got a buncha USA made Rayovac aa's for 24¢ each at a big box store. 

Also just got a 6P based type of light rated to go 2.5 regulated hours at 1000 lumens using a pair of 123's. 

So it's win win for everybody.

Speaking of win win, if not for the ever popular 6P prowess I wouldn't have a P60 type LED in my 2aa Rayovac Indestructable....making it possible to swap in a 280 lumen M31 in it.


The 6P is to flashlights what the inflateable tire is to wheels.


----------



## Greenbean

bykfixer said:


> The 6P is to flashlights what the inflateable tire is to wheels.



Hahahaha, That's awesome!


----------



## NoNotAgain

Greenbean said:


> But is that because as far as LEDs are concerned we are getting better and better with emitter efficiency and output?
> 
> Being able to produce great/usable output from something that can stay lit longer and use less energy doing it.
> 
> I love my incans but I have a string pulling me in the direction of the newer AA weapons light for my AR. I have so many Eneloops it just makes sense.


 I was concerned about warranty claims with alkaline batteries puking. Per the contract, I don't have a warranty issue since they (the government) specified Alkaline cell only.

The government looks at batteries as being something you should be able to get thru supply chain or local purchase.

I would have rather used the CR123, as the battery holder is smaller which means the package size is reduced, and I have two less contact points for failure. The voltage is also linear until almost depleted.

I'm still not through though, as next year, we've got to renew the contract and I'm pushing for a performance tweak which might force a battery change. We'll call this a Rev A upgrade.

As for AA weapons lights....look at the Firefly titanium light thread. On AA alkaline battery, the light produces 275 lumens, Eneloops, 350 lumens, and 14500 lithium ion, 550 lumens.


----------



## NoNotAgain

etc said:


> but anyway, who buys 123s in the grocery store? You buy them in bulk for about a buck a piece.
> 
> Bigger number is always better and signifies more power. To an uninformed mind, nine > six. I wish I could buy 12P but they don't make it. (12P would presumably take 4x123 cells).



They most surly did make a 12P, it's called the Devastator. Surefire designation is the M4 though.


----------



## scout24

Fivemega , via Wonderlite, sells a very nice 4 cell C/P/G/Z compatible body in black for making a very unofficial 12P. 18mm bored, a pair of 18650's fit perfectly. No SF "P120" bulb, but a P90 runs bright for a LONG time on that pair of 18650's.  Shown with a G3 and C2 for reference.

EDIT- I see Lumensfactory makes the IMR-9 bulb assembly, I'm guessing brighter than the mighty P91? As per their specs, 35 minutes on a pair on IMR 18650's. No more than 10 minutes constant run, though, due to the heat... :devil:


----------



## etc

NoNotAgain said:


> Recall what I posted.
> 
> Surefire sold the 6P to primarily LEO's and the military. The CR123 wasn't a common battery, still isn't in most parts of the world.
> 
> I design and build electronics sold to the military and government agencies. I fought to use the CR 123 lithium battery, and if not the CR123, then a lithium primary AA battery.
> 
> Nope, they have switched the supply chain to alkaline AA cells.
> 
> Not sure where your purchasing quality CR123's for a buck each, but I purchase Surefire branded batteries from Battery Junction, and best price I can get is $1.55 each purchasing 24 at a time.



The 123 cell has become much more popular than before. I think this has to do with the promotion of LED lights. They were not mainstream up until 5-7 years ago, IMO. Now they have become dirt cheap, much more powerful and they take 123s - or the 18650 cell. Both have become much more popular.

For best prices, try your favorite online auctions. 

The only way I can deal with the divergence of AA and 123 cells is to use either a Surefire 9P or perhaps Surefire can come up with something called G3x that takes 3x123. It's not an ideal solution but I like the concept of a light that takes either one. I would hate to paint myself in the corner with 2xAA and then not be able to run 123s.


----------



## bykfixer

Meanwhile back at the ranch....

I was threatening to take a hacksaw to a Solar Force and make my own dag gone 3P, but was schooled on the 5 mega host by a member who's name rhymes with Dijon, and so it is. 
Bored out 3P style host on the way...including a genuine Z44 and Z41. 

Am really looking forward to the pint sized 6P light. 
Did not buy an emitter as I didn't want to lock in this one to an individual output.

It'll be more of a "what beam for the 3P today?" type of thing. 
Morse code to the neighbors 6 doors down or a nice gentle incan or a Malkoff in between? Yep...works for me.


----------



## m4a1usr

Now this is entertainment!


----------



## Toohotruk

bykfixer said:


> Meanwhile back at the ranch....
> 
> I was threatening to take a hacksaw to a Solar Force and make my own dag gone 3P, but was schooled on the 5 mega host by a member who's name rhymes with Dijon, and so it is.
> Bored out 3P style host on the way...including a genuine Z44 and Z41.
> 
> Am really looking forward to the pint sized 6P light.
> Did not buy an emitter as I didn't want to lock in this one to an individual output.
> 
> It'll be more of a "what beam for the 3P today?" type of thing.
> Morse code to the neighbors 6 doors down or a nice gentle incan or a Malkoff in between? Yep...works for me.



Solarforce makes a 3P clone...they call it an L2R and it comes with an extension so you can use it 6P style. I've had one for a few years now.


----------



## novice

Oveready offers an "Oveready custom Delrin 18350 P60 body", which is basically a SF-compatible "G1".


----------



## bykfixer

Toohotruk said:


> Solarforce makes a 3P clone...they call it an L2R and it comes with an extension so you can use it 6P style. I've had one for a few years now.



Thanks for the tip. Will probably get one at some point...for an M31W. And use the extension on an actual 6P as a sorta home made"9P" ...if it'll do that. 

You too Novice....
I had checked oveready a couple of times a while ago but they were sold out each time.

Decided on an M31L for the 3P style 5 Mega host....


----------



## kj2

Came in the mail, today


----------



## Grijon

:twothumbs


----------



## NoNotAgain

kj2 said:


> Came in the mail, today



You'll be happy. :twothumbs

A few short years back, people were spending $60-75 USD for a Surefire 6P.

I fell into a deal where the seller was getting $20 each and free shipping on $100 sales. Took about a week to receive, but FedEx delivered the four boxes like a champ.

Sometimes you just can't pass up a good deal, even if you don't need a light.

Complete lights for the price of a tail cap.


----------



## kj2

Stupid me. Never had a twist on light, to tried to click the button. First thought, man that switch is heavy. It doesn't click. Unscrew the tailcap, what? Whole switch assembly is loose. Then I remembered.. Owyeah, it's not a clicky


----------



## NoNotAgain

kj2 said:


> Stupid me. Never had a twist on light, to tried to click the button. First thought, man that switch is heavy. It doesn't click. Unscrew the tailcap, what? Whole switch assembly is loose. Then I remembered.. Owyeah, it's not a clicky




You can change that with a McClicky :thumbsup: 

I usually unscrew the tail cap to the point that the switch won't turn the light on and call it good. I do this will all of my edc lights so that they don't get a chance to accidentally activate.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

kj2 said:


> Came in the mail, today



As to the OP's original question, a picture is worth a thousand words. Nevertheless, it's just such a handsome light. You never grow tired of looking at it. Classic black.

~ Chance


----------



## bykfixer

kj2 said:


> Came in the mail, today



Did your supplied batteries say they expire in 019?



Somehow I ended up with a pair with the same serial number.
One is an 014 light and the other is an 09.
Check it out....




^^ 014...note the non italisized letters and serial numbers




^^ the 09...note the italisized letters and serial numbers.


----------



## NoNotAgain

You've got one old style and one new style logo.

The serial number isn't 6222138, that's the patent number. I hope you're just fooling around?


----------



## bykfixer

^^ actually nna I was not.

I had looked at 2 of my pix at work and thought awe man same s/n...cool, (posted here soon after) then left work early to go confirm and upon arrival realized...yes indeed that's the patent numbers. 
Doh! What was in that tea I had at lunch? lol

Again the alligator mouth over rides the canary brain...

I'm embarrased.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

HA! :laughing: You had me going.  Don't worry about. We all get a little excited when it comes to flashlights. Just a little premature posting. I do it all the time. :devil: 

~ Chance


----------



## bykfixer

I was hoping to remove the foh-pah before anything was said...but since not again asked I owned up to my...uh...hmm family friendly site leaves me adjective-less...here's one...
Wozzack move. 

Yep...a word somebody in Parliment called Donald Trump yesterday. Apparently a British word for idiot.


----------



## NoNotAgain

bykfixer said:


> Yep...a word somebody in Parliment called Donald Trump yesterday. Apparently a British word for idiot.



What would that one be? Royalty?


----------



## kj2

bykfixer said:


> Did your supplied batteries say they expire in 019?



Yes, they do.


----------



## bykfixer

Seems like there was a good cache of 09's laying somewhere. 

The sub $35 ones are being bought from a few differing sellers yet all seem to have batteries that expire on 019.

I envision somebody buying a truck load from a military auction. 

A friend of mine years ago bought 5000 pairs of brand new boots, all size 9 for $25 at a military auction. 
Ironically he wore size 11.


----------



## NoNotAgain

bykfixer said:


> Seems like there was a good cache of 09's laying somewhere.
> 
> The sub $35 ones are being bought from a few differing sellers yet all seem to have batteries that expire on 019.
> 
> I envision somebody buying a truck load from a



Uncle SAMs sole goods auction contractor won't release anything until the current glut subsides. 

I purchased from them for years until I wised up. 

Due to there unethical dealings, there's now a second company that auctions off most of the vehicles.


----------



## bykfixer

Logged in Jan 20th, 2016 at 6:28 pm and this is what I saw...





Seems there's a lotta talk lately about that ole 6P.


----------



## bykfixer

Gonna post some pix here for future reference.

Folks ask which M61, or stay P60 and all that.

So I pulled out my Malkoff'd G2 with a WLL, a 6P with a WL, another 6P with an NL and a 3rd with the ole P60 still in it.

For kix n giggles I also did a M31 vs M31L scenario with Malkoff'd 2aa Rayovac Indestructables. 

Basically what occured was a photo from about 15' to a wall to show the hotspot and a wall at a right angle to show spill in one photo.
Then a path lighter type thing with the spot at it's farthest throw to kinda show what is what from you to the spot. 

I'll say this....the farthest the spot tossed a useable light was about 200' in each case. 
The difference imo was how well things lit between me and the shed some 200' away..(not the ones near the car btw, but in the distance) 





^^ this one...

Each light provided enough light at that distance to ID a porta-john from a panther...a bobcat from a dog. The P60 is more a spotter at a distance where the WLL gives you nearly as much throw with a ton of useable spill.
In some cases the pix don't show one as bright as the other. The point was to show that the Malkoff WL, WLL, the NL and the P60 are all pretty dawg gone close in what you get. 


First the M31's










^^ the L gets it done.










^^ the M31 does good.
Yet I'll go with an M31L for battery life.

Now the P60 type 6 volt modules. Note they can run off like 4-9 volts. 
Starting with the WLL beam









^^ see the shed some 200' away with 75 measly lumens? 
Yet no harshness on close up objects. Night adjusted eyes can see a lot more than most realize. 
I'll take this any old day. 











^^ the WL is a wee bit brighter. 
Still very respectable battery life as well.










^^ the NL is a favorite because it provides nice even lighting stem to stern. 
5 regulated hours in a 6P with primaries...not bad at all. 











^^ look at that 65 lumen incan gettin' it done.
This..was why the 6P was so popular in it's hey-day.

Just to show it was actually dark out, some before pix.





^^ the unlit wall





^^ and all my neighbors free lux.

In terms of todays popular uprising of single cell lights or multi led throwers built by hobbiest, these babies don't hold the proverbial candle to the modern world aspect of flashlights.
But to the rest of the world, they're still some mighty fine flashlights.


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi hey where do you buy those from ^^.

I'm looking for a 6P host for a vinh throw triple copper nichia hcri P60 high mode only.
Would the tailcap need to be changed or so to handle amp change?,
maybe 400+ lumens I don't know.

whats best for this kind of p60, 18650 or 123?.
i was looking at an over ready host 6p bored.

Thanks!.


----------



## NoNotAgain

*bykfixer* ,

I just look at the 6P as the small block Chevy of the flashlight world. I've used that analogy before, but it still holds true.

I can't purchase a ready made drop in for any other flashlight brand like I can with Surefire. 

If I were to drop and damage a 6P, I can purchase a replacement head, drop-in, bulb, or tail cap and be back running upon receipt of parts. Can't do that with Fenix, Nitecore, or Olight.

The 6P isn't perfect, but then again, for the bargain basement prices of the current crop of lights, you'd be hard pressed to find something better.

Just got finished loading up the SC-1's with extra CR123 batteries for the looming "White Death" storm. The TM15, 26, 36 are all charged up. The D4's have been working overtime topping off batteries for the Fenix TK's. The rest should be good to go.

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!


----------



## bykfixer

I like that small block chevy anology. 
You prefer the 327 or the 350? 

Yup, they're calling it snow-magedan where I live. But we're located at a much closer to sea level than you are. 
I guess they'll see ya in the spring lol. 

Pffft, my neighbor says it's just another snowbama storm. Nothing but hype and hinderance he says...

Streamlights charged, battery packs, laptops etc are good. Got lots of batteries and food. Jar candles and joy juice.
Bread was gone so the wife got burger buns and a bunch of Ravioli. New 20# bag of charcoal for grillin' in a snow storm. 

My only concern is being too close to I-95. Winds are supposed to be brutal east of 95. I'm 150 yards west of it. 
Uh oh! 
Yet if worse comes to worse we have a generator and 4 vehicles with full gas tanks...about 100 gallons. lol



This time tomorrow night my thoughts will be beam shots in the snow.

Edit:
It's this time tomorrow night...and I got a new light.
But where I live there are lots of free lux keeping our surroundings nice n bright.




^^ 7Pm
Flashlight? For what?




^^ eh, why waste the battery?




^^ CRI checked out a-ok with the M31L

But tbh it wasn't any fun so a wall check later and I was bored.




^^ the FiveMega 16340 with Malkoff M31L


----------



## Greenbean

Heck yea man...

I'll post what I get if we get hammered. I am in Mills River NC, right near the border of Henderson and Buncombe Counties. 

Anywhere from 4-18 inches, but who knows.... Lol....


----------



## NoNotAgain

Greenbean said:


> Heck yea man...
> 
> I'll post what I get if we get hammered. I am in Mills River NC, right near the border of Henderson and Buncombe Counties.
> 
> Anywhere from 4-18 inches, but who knows.... Lol....



I'm on the west side of the mountain. Storms have to dump moisture to get over so we get a lot rain and snow. Charlottesville VA that's in the east side of the mountain usually doesn't as much as we do. 

The Wundeground Weather app that I use on my iPhone is calling for 18-30 inches as reported by the National Weather Service out of Dulles VA. 

The last time they called for that much snow, we got 3 feet. We'll see.

I couldn't get my M923 running today, so one more shot tomorrow morning. I need to break down and get a set of chains for it, but at $800, to use them every couple of years, isn't worth the money.


----------



## Greenbean

You have an M923!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????? :bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:

We haven't had a great snow since 1993, we are due something but nothing like 30" wow!

Hang in there bro,


----------



## Timothybil

Remember, the 6P and its cheaper cousin the G2 came along when all that was out there was the everyday $5 plastic or sheet metal 2D lights, or the very expensive Surefire tactical lights that started at around $150-$200. All of a sudden here were these lights that had the Surefire build and guarantee, that were available for almost nothing, comparatively. And they were wonderful! Then the third party P60 creators started showing up: Malkoff, Lumens Factory, Oveready, with more incandescent options and these new-fangled LED thingys. We were in heaven. 
I seriously doubt that the flashaholic world would be like it is today without the 6P and its cousins leading the way. We would have something, but I think it would have been nothing like what we have today.


----------



## Greenbean

True, So true!


----------



## bykfixer

Malkoff'd Maglights and Strions... perhaps Scorpions.... that's what we'd have. 

6P or not, Gene was having trouble getting a flashlight to work worth diddley back when and built better. 

Come to think of it, we may not have the Strion were it not for the 6P


----------



## Grijon

lovecpf




NoNotAgain said:


> I couldn't get my M923 running today, so one more shot tomorrow morning. I need to break down and get a set of chains for it, but at $800, to use them every couple of years, isn't worth the money.



That's awesome!

Maybe you could offer rides for a 'nominal fee' and the chains would pay for themselves? LOL, I wish!


----------



## scout24

Bykfixer- Thanks for the beam shots! Everyone hang in there with the snow, keep us posted and stay safe.


----------



## peter yetman

^^^
Same goes for me, stay safe.
P


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

bykfixer said:


> Gonna post some pix here for future reference.



Nice pictures, you really get a good idea of the brightness. That original 6P incan is impressive for 65 lumens!


----------



## Greenbean

6" and counting...

So thankful it's my week off and the wife scored a three day weekend!

I mean my little Tacoma 4x4 goes about anywhere I need to be if it was my work week.


----------



## NoNotAgain

Just started snowing here. It's 23 degrees, and it's already started laying.

The county pre-treated the roads last night using a brine solution, so the main drag will take a bit longer to become snow covered.

The hawk that hangs out around the yard has picked off a dove and a little snow bird this morning. Got to find a way to move him somewhere else so he doesn't get such easy pickins.


----------



## Greenbean

Lol...

That's awesome.

We just have a Goundhog, named him Sheldon as he is always in the same "spot!"


----------



## bykfixer

Greenbean said:


> Lol...
> 
> That's awesome.
> 
> We just have a Goundhog, named him Sheldon as he is always in the same "spot!"



Hope Sheldon sees his shadow soon...

In the meantime it looks like we all have at least one 6P for use as a pocket warmers, right?


----------



## Greenbean

Lol... 

I have also very graciously and thankfully re-acquired my bored 6P and bored A19 extension...

However it's in the mail... had it been here it would have 2 x 18500 cells and a P91 for the warmth. Ha!!!

We are at 12" and it's still snowing a little.


----------



## bykfixer

Mr. Postman brought me a pocket warmer just as snow-magedan was arriving my way...




^^ the FiveMega bored body and genuine SureFire 6P goodies at both ends.
Thanks for the tip goes to member Grijon.



^^ should be good to go if dropped in the snow.

Add a Malkoff M31L and a Battery Station..we're there dude.
An M31W will go in it about this time next week if snow-magedan doesn't demolish a certain building in Enterprise Alabama...


----------



## Greenbean

I like that....

back in the day I had a Malkoff machined down body into an MD1, 
Tell you what, a Wildcat head on a single 18350 looked pretty wicked on my MD1. I always liked the pocketabillity of the single cell lights.


----------



## Toohotruk

Cool pics and comparison. Gotta love the 6P variants and clones. Rarely a day goes by that I don't use a 6P based light in some way or another, usually Malkoff driven.

Hope all you guys weather the storm well...I have little doubt any of you will be in the dark. lovecpf


----------



## Grijon

bykfixer said:


> Mr. Postman brought me a pocket warmer just as snow-magedan was arriving my way...



WOOT WOOT!!
:twothumbs


----------



## bykfixer

Greenbean said:


> I like that....
> 
> back in the day I had a Malkoff machined down body into an MD1,
> Tell you what, a Wildcat head on a single 18350 looked pretty wicked on my MD1. I always liked the pocketabillity of the single cell lights.



Wildcat on a single cell. Nice!
Now _that's_ an amoeba light.... imposing single cell organism of a flashlight that is.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

bykfixer said:


> Wildcat on a single cell. Nice!
> Now _that's_* an amoeba light.... imposing single cell organism of a flashlight that is*.



You're going to milk that line for everything you can, eh? I would too, if I'd been smart enough to think of it. :thumbsup:

~ Chance :laughing:


----------



## bykfixer

^^ kinda figured it would coincide with my term 'Dolly Mags' for the 2D maglite...double d...get it? ar-ar-ar...





Don't you eat the yellow snoooow, 
'cause that's where all the huskys goooooh....
- frank zappa


----------



## kj2

Just received my Malkoff M61WLL for the 6P. Tint is almost the same as the SF incan drop-in. But I do get why this warm tint isn't for everyone. Only checked it indoors, and will take it with me this evening during the dog walk.
But I'll probably end-up also buying a neutral and/or cool tint Malkoff.


----------



## bykfixer

I predict you'll like his Neutral drop in. 

It has that little extra... something..that causes the output to appear a bit brighter yet not. 

Warm, but not. Cool, but not. 
I dunno how to describe it except to say it just looks like a natural tint of light beaming from a metal battery operated stick where the W looks like fire and his regular takes on an LED look.


----------



## RedLED

kj2 said:


> Just received my Malkoff M61WLL for the 6P. Tint is almost the same as the SF incan drop-in. But I do get why this warm tint isn't for everyone. Only checked it indoors, and will take it with me this evening during the dog walk.
> But I'll probably end-up also buying a neutral and/or cool tint Malkoff.



Give it a chance, plants and, well your famous flowers should look beautiful at night.


----------



## RedLED

bykfixer said:


> I predict you'll like his Neutral drop in.
> 
> It has that little extra... something..that causes the output to appear a bit brighter yet not.
> 
> Warm, but not. Cool, but not.
> I dunno how to describe it except to say it just looks like a natural tint of light beaming from a metal battery operated stick where the W looks like fire and his regular takes on an LED look.


5000 Kelvin like the Sun. your warm is 3700, Incan Edison bulbs are like 3200. If you add some blue gel it will color correct it to 5000K. Get a gel packet, they are free. just cut it out put on your lights window, and Viola! no charge!

If people would use ND, or neutral density gels you could lower the brightness of your lights free, with no color shift at all. get a bright drop-in and you can make what ever you level want not to mention colors. 

So if you wanted a LLL Red...5 min with scissors... you got it Too warm, add blue; too cool add orange. it is fun.


----------



## kj2

RedLED said:


> Give it a chance, plants and, well your famous flowers should look beautiful at night.



Oh I will  Specially during the spring, colors will look awesome  know that from my AT Wizard warm. But also like to switch. So a neutral or CW option would make it an even more versatile light.


----------



## Grijon

kj2 said:


> Oh I will  Specially during the spring, colors will look awesome  know that from my AT Wizard warm. But also like to switch. So a neutral or CW option would make it an even more versatile light.




:twothumbs

M61LL and M61NL and you've got it all, ha ha!


----------



## Greenbean

RedLED said:


> If people would use ND, or neutral density gels you could lower the brightness of your lights free, .



What is this you speak of?


----------



## NoNotAgain

Greenbean said:


> What is this you speak of?



A ND or neutral density filter is a series of filters that are darkened in various degrees to tone down scenes that are brighter than as a photographer want to portray. 


There are ND gels available that you could cut to the diameter of the head. Glass filter come in various diameters, but cost as much as the gels and you have to find a way to mount it.


----------



## bykfixer

I use 'em to create motion in photos during broad daylight scenes with camera lenses that won't close the aperature far enough to do same.

Motion of a flag on a windy day at noon comes to mind. 

Like putting on really dark glasses so the shutter on a camera stays open a lot longer. 

Another option could be the stuff they use at window tint shops. 
Lick it n stick it (backwards) like static cling decals. Peel off when done. But careful with that one...a hot lens may actually cause it to become bonded enough to need scraping off.


----------



## Greenbean

OK, 10-4...

Thanks for "enlightening" me.


----------



## RedLED

bykfixer said:


> I use 'em to create motion in photos during broad daylight scenes with camera lenses that won't close the aperature far enough to do same.
> 
> Motion of a flag on a windy day at noon comes to mind.
> 
> Like putting on really dark glasses so the shutter on a camera stays open a lot longer.
> while good ideas, stick with the ND filters.
> 
> Another option could be the stuff they use at window tint shops.
> Lick it n stick it (backwards) like static cling decals. Peel off when done. But careful with that one...a hot lens may actually cause it to become bonded enough to need scraing off.


----------



## RedLED

bykfixer said:


> I use 'em to create motion in photos during broad daylight scenes with camera lenses that won't close the aperature far enough to do same.
> 
> Motion of a flag on a windy day at noon comes to mind.
> 
> Like putting on really dark glasses so the shutter on a camera stays open a lot longer.
> 
> Another option could be the stuff they use at window tint shops.
> Lick it n stick it (backwards) like static cling decals. Peel off when done. But careful with that one...a hot lens may actually cause it to become bonded enough to need scraing off.


while good ideas, stick to the ND filters


----------



## bykfixer

That's what I was talking about up to the window tint stuff.

But not everybody has a buncha 4-8x ND filters laying around.


----------



## Timothybil

bykfixer said:


> That's what I was talking about up to the window tint stuff.
> 
> But not everybody has a buncha 4-8x ND filters laying around.


But places like Bell & Howell that sell a lot of photographic stuff will usually have free sample packs of gels that should be large enough to be able to be trimmed to fit into a 6P bezel. 

A small piece of black or grey nylon hose stretched over the bezel and held taut with a rubber band would also work. Could make it too dark though.


----------



## bykfixer

Good info.
Thanks for clarifying where others can get said home made nd filter materials.


----------



## RedLED

bykfixer said:


> I use 'em to create motion in photos during broad daylight scenes with camera lenses that won't close the aperature far enough to do same.
> 
> Motion of a flag on a windy day at noon comes to mind.
> 
> Like putting on really dark glasses so the shutter on a camera stays open a lot longer.
> 
> Another option could be the stuff they use at window tint shops.
> Lick it n stick it (backwards) like static cling decals. Peel off when done. But careful with that one...a hot lens may actually cause it to become bonded enough to need scraping off.



The ND or and Photographic Gels are free in sample books, just cut them out. Also, the will not stick to your light they are made for the big Cans on stages and the huge Mole Richardson lights for motion picture shooting.Trust me I have been using them for decades. a surefire difussion filter will hold them fine. these are made for lights hotter than any flashlight ever will be, so no worries, cut them out and if you can open your light set them on the window, they stay.

This is free and easy, go to a professional camera store, if you can find one, the lighting dept will give you a gel sample book free.

you can have a hundred combonations for free and some scissors.


----------



## RedLED

Even a big sheet is like a few dollars, not expensive and they last years, I have some decades old and have been used hundreds of times, NBC gave me some 25 years ago and I still use them. 

you can get: Any color there are hundreds of them
ND
Diffusion to soften and spread light

Its fun. I am a Master Electrician and light all my sets, and have done so with every president from Nixon to Obama. (Clinton, Bush 43, and Obama in office) the others at their functions. 

I have done a piece on this before, search for it if you like.


----------



## RedLED

bykfixer said:


> That's what I was talking about up to the window tint stuff.
> 
> But not everybody has a buncha 4-8x ND filters laying around.



It is real cheap at B & H.


----------



## RedLED

NoNotAgain said:


> A ND or neutral density filter is a series of filters that are darkened in various degrees to tone down scenes that are brighter than as a photographer want to portray.
> 
> 
> There are ND gels available that you could cut to the diameter of the head. Glass filter come in various diameters, but cost as much as the gels and you have to find a way to mount it.




The Glass were called filters, gel is like cellophane, with the new cameras it is the motion picture guys that shoot with gels, we just dial the color balance and say look here. you can put them in holders over the lens of flash even the cellophane type lenses but, in still shooting, not done much these days. it was fun, and your bill went up.

But for flashlights don't get glass.


----------



## bykfixer

The wife and I were looking into some slide in filters by Lee(?) at one point, but opted to just acquire good glass polarizers, an ND or two and some star filters.
Most of our photography was based on foot travel to locations and see what opportunities came our way along the way. The idea was to keep the luggage light and simple.

I still like the idea of a variable density filter though. And if we get back into photography like on that scale again will likely go with a slide in system with a well organized side carry pouch.
We actually have good camera stores not so far away as my area has plenty of serious photographer folks who still enjoy using film. 

But for now my wife is persuing other interests and I'm all in in the flashlight collector thing...like the ever popular 6P....


----------



## kj2

Like mine that much, I just ordered a Malkoff LMH drop-in  Second Malkoff drop-in in three weeks


----------



## bykfixer

While in stores looking at flashlights one of the first things I check for..."is it P60 compatible?" or "can it be made P60 compatible?" lol
Even those little $3 multi LED kind at the check out counter of auto parts stores...


----------



## 0dBm

dutchguy2 said:


> Please can somone explain to me why this 6P is so damn good. I have several other lights like a Mag 5D, Mag 2C, a Fenix P3D, and some no name models.
> 
> Some of them throw more light or have greater reach but none of them is overall so good as my P6!
> 
> Is it its size, is it the bulb, the looks, the feel, all of them??
> 
> What are your feelings about the 6P??


Simply because it works when I have needed it. I still have and occasionally use mine that I purchased 27 years ago.


----------



## scs

Look who else stocked up on the discontinued 6P...
Interested boring philosphy and mods to the brass ring of the McClicky:
http://www.pflexpro.com/product-p/sf6p-18.6.htm


----------



## kj2

Received my KP 16650 from GB today. Fits great and will save me money


----------



## Toohotruk

They are great batteries...I'm sure you will be happy with them. :thumbsup:


----------



## kj2

To bad though, that it won't fit my SF G2X LE.


----------



## Grijon

kj2 said:


> To bad though, that it won't fit my SF G2X LE.




I have a pair of Keeppower 16650s, and neither fit in my G2X Pro.


----------



## Toohotruk

That sucks. They fit in all my "X" lights and my Fury. I wonder if they changed the inside diameter for some reason?


----------



## Kestrel

dutchguy2 said:


> *Why is the SureFire 6P so good?*


That's easy - the cool 'crosshairs' SF logo, OEM support for dropin upgrades, gold-color interior chemkote, cool limited-release anodized colors ... oh wait. Must have been thinking of an earlier age, lol. 

Edit: but seriously, there is one telling metric embedded in this thread itself:


12 posts from 2007
56 posts from 2010
28 posts from 2015
120 posts from 2016
... and counting.


----------



## bykfixer

Kestrel said:


> That's easy - the cool 'crosshairs' SF logo, OEM support for dropin upgrades, gold-color interior chemkote, cool limited-release anodized colors ... oh wait. Must have been thinking of an earlier age, lol.
> 
> Edit: but seriously, there is one telling metric embedded in this thread itself:
> 
> 
> 12 posts from 2007
> 56 posts from 2010
> 28 posts from 2015
> 120 posts from 2016
> ... and counting.



Hmmmmmm...something to think about there.

Hmmmmm.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Hey All. Something just occurred to me. If Surefire defines tactical runtime as the light dropping to 50 lumens, does that mean that the 6P Original's runtime of 1 hour mean that it only drops 15 lumens, from 65 to 50 in that time?


----------



## Toohotruk

I think they mean 50% of full output, rather than 50 lumens...but then I could be wrong about that. :shrug:


----------



## sgt253

JohnnyBravo said:


> Hey All. Something just occurred to me. If Surefire defines tactical runtime as the light dropping to 50 lumens, does that mean that the 6P Original's runtime of 1 hour mean that it only drops 15 lumens, from 65 to 50 in that time?



If I recall correctly, I believe the light is conservatively rated by Surefire. I believe Surefire rates this light, like most of their others, at the mid point of the run. It most likely starts with a higher lumen count and drops, with the 65 lumens for one hour, before tapering off in both run time and lumen count.


----------



## Kestrel

+1 on the sgt.


----------



## Swedpat

Grijon said:


> I have a pair of Keeppower 16650s, and neither fit in my G2X Pro.



I have 4 of Keeppower 16650s, and what I know they fit in every light which can take 2xCR123. I have tried with Fenix TK10, Surefire G2, C2, E2L and E2DL, and it works(the cells are not very tightly inside the body). I am impressed by the amount of energy these cells contain(2500mAh in the very same format as AW 17670 1600mAh) It really sounds like it's a difference in size between your and my samples?


----------



## Grijon

Swedpat said:


> I have 4 of Keeppower 16650s, and what I know they fit in every light which can take 2xCR123. I have tried with Fenix TK10, Surefire G2, C2, E2L and E2DL, and it works(the cells are not very tightly inside the body). I am impressed by the amount of energy these cells contain(2500mAh in the very same format as AW 17670 1600mAh) It really sounds like it's a difference in size between your and my samples?




I am absolutely delighted with my G2X Pro and I am completely satisfied with my 2 Keeppower 16650s. The cells do fit into my incan G2 and 6P Original, but neither one fits into the G2X Pro; I have seen posts on CPF from people reporting that their G2X takes 16650s, and I have seen posts on CPF from people reporting that their G2X does _not_ take 16650s.

Perhaps both the lights' bodies and the cells have minor variations in diameters and it is only when a slightly large battery gets paired with a slightly small body that it doesn't fit; or perhaps it's purely variation in the bodies, which is my personal suspicion since my cells fit perfectly in the incan lights, which were designed specifically for CR123As.

*TL;DR* Yes, I believe there is a definite difference in size between all of our samples.


----------



## ven

I have a 6p on the way from NY and a couple of 16650's to get me going. Looking forward to my 1st surefire and to what I might do to it. Not sure yet drop in wise......

Next SF will be a c2 which is on my wanted list but can wait for now


----------



## Swordforthelord

Grijon said:


> I have a pair of Keeppower 16650s, and neither fit in my G2X Pro.


I just got a KP 18650 for my MMX-360 and it was a bit of a squeeze until I discovered the label was overlapping the "wiring" for the protection circuit on one side of the cell. I slit the label (not the shrink wrap) and peeled off the part that was overlapping and now it's perfect.


----------



## bykfixer

ven said:


> I have a 6p on the way from NY and a couple of 16650's to get me going. Looking forward to my 1st surefire and to what I might do to it. Not sure yet drop in wise......
> 
> Next SF will be a c2 which is on my wanted list but can wait for now



Congrats. 
So much potential for another masterpiece in your collection.


----------



## ven

Thanks mr fixer, in fact i hold you 50% at fault..............the other 50% with kj2 :laughing:

Will throw a few pics up once in my hands(probably a couple of weeks) as it is and maybe a cryos head,not decided yet,either Sean's triple nichia or a quad!

Should get 2 really, one for babying/home use and one for work uses(beater!)


----------



## kj2

Hehe, don't blame me


----------



## kj2

Received a Malkoff LMH drop in for my 6P, this week. Took awhile.. Damn those customs guys 
Really like that low mode. Specially with the KP 16650, I think I've a new indoor usage light


----------



## ven

kj2 said:


> Hehe, don't blame me




Oh yes kev, but i am sure i will thank you for it not got to malkoff yet! all in time...........


----------



## kj2

ven said:


> Oh yes kev, but i am sure i will thank you for it not got to malkoff yet! all in time...........



That Malkoff will come  email them for the best shipping price. I paid less for shipping and the standard rate.


----------



## bykfixer

ven said:


> I have a 6p on the way from NY and a couple of 16650's to get me going. Looking forward to my 1st surefire and to what I might do to it. Not sure yet drop in wise......
> 
> Next SF will be a c2 which is on my wanted list but can wait for now



Here in 2016 folks are still thrilled to receive their first SureFire light that changed it all... way back in oh, 1988. 

Now the Malkoff drop in won't be daylight in darkness a half mile away. But the beam is nearly indescribable. You just gotta see it to know.


----------



## bykfixer

ven said:


> I have a 6p on the way from NY and a couple of 16650's to get me going. Looking forward to my 1st surefire and to what I might do to it. Not sure yet drop in wise......
> 
> Next SF will be a c2 which is on my wanted list but can wait for now



Here in 2016 folks are still thrilled to receive their first SureFire light that changed it all... way back in oh, 1988. 

Now the Malkoff drop in won't be daylight in darkness a half mile away. But the beam is nearly indescribable. You just gotta see it to know.


----------



## ven

kev yep, i probably will go for a malkoff drop in............any recommendations, 2 mode works for me(no single mode). Tint wise 4000k-5000k is good for work, warm side to neutral=all good.

Mike your collection of all these kind of retro lights has got me on one, i might even use the 6p as is at 1st tbh. Look forward to seeing the beam/tint out of the box, heck it may be fine as is! . Now do i get another 6p????? one just dont cut the mustard! saying that it appears 5 or 6 does not for you


----------



## kj2

ven said:


> kev yep, i probably will go for a malkoff drop in............any recommendations, 2 mode works for me(no single mode). Tint wise 4000k-5000k is good for work, warm side to neutral=all good.


Checkout the M361N-LMH. I've the M361-LMH, and am very pleased with it


----------



## ven

kj2 said:


> Checkout the M361N-LMH. I've the M361-LMH, and am very pleased with it




Saved cheers, may get one:thumbsup:


----------



## bykfixer

ven said:


> kev yep, i probably will go for a malkoff drop in............any recommendations, 2 mode works for me(no single mode). Tint wise 4000k-5000k is good for work, warm side to neutral=all good.
> 
> Mike your collection of all these kind of retro lights has got me on one, i might even use the 6p as is at 1st tbh. Look forward to seeing the beam/tint out of the box, heck it may be fine as is! . Now do i get another 6p????? one just dont cut the mustard! saying that it appears 5 or 6 does not for you



If you end up liking it as is you'll love the Malkoff WLL.10 hour regulated run time on primaries...with several hours of useable light after. 
A couple of RCR's is a mighty practical combo with a WLL. 

I bought several when they were $28 shipped.


----------



## ven

$28 shipped.........................wow,let me know if you find any more, i will defo have at least 1 more, will have a nice back up to my work one


----------



## Swedpat

Grijon said:


> I am absolutely delighted with my G2X Pro and I am completely satisfied with my 2 Keeppower 16650s. The cells do fit into my incan G2 and 6P Original, but neither one fits into the G2X Pro; I have seen posts on CPF from people reporting that their G2X takes 16650s, and I have seen posts on CPF from people reporting that their G2X does _not_ take 16650s.
> 
> Perhaps both the lights' bodies and the cells have minor variations in diameters and it is only when a slightly large battery gets paired with a slightly small body that it doesn't fit; or perhaps it's purely variation in the bodies, which is my personal suspicion since my cells fit perfectly in the incan lights, which were designed specifically for CR123As.
> 
> *TL;DR* Yes, I believe there is a definite difference in size between all of our samples.



I understand according to as well personal experience and others report that some Keeppower cells are larger sized than other brands. A few years ago I ordered a bunch of Keeppower 18500 1700mAh cells. Unfortunately these don't fit in any of my lights. Too bad because they were intended for Malkoff MD3 body. But I keep them waiting for some future flashlight.


----------



## twin63

ven said:


> Now do i get another 6p?????


Absolutely! I've always liked the 6P style lights and thought my collection of Solarforce hosts would stave off the urge to pick up any real 6P's. Didn't happen. In the past few months I've kinda gone crazy...3 - 6P's, 2 - C2's (one black and one natural), and 2 - G2's. I really don't know why I fought it so long. Besides, I had already stocked up on a bunch of lamps that I found for $3-4 apiece...must have been a sign!


----------



## ven

Wow twin thats some catching up for me to do :laughing: I am looking forward to the 6p like a kid! Not had a SF yet, only solarforces of which depending on model can be nice quality or a bit cheap feel(yep i know budget so cant expect too much). The p1d and L2T are my fav ones so far, the stainless i really like! 

Think i am going a little retro and do fancy the warm bulb output now..............yep read that right. Just for the ..........how can i put it,the experience, re-living my youth.........maybe incan is the new old option for me. For this i do blame mike 100% on that part, his great threads and beam pics just floats my boat!


----------



## twin63

I know where you're coming from ven. I'm 52, so I was around when incan was it. Maybe it's sentimental? Whatever it is, right now I'm enjoying it. One of the other 6P's got a Malkoff M61WLL. Now I have the nice warm tint and 10 hours of runtime.

As for Mike......I hadn't bought a Maglite in over 25 years. I've bought 5 in the last week! Yep, he's an enabler!


----------



## Grijon

Swordforthelord said:


> I just got a KP 18650 for my MMX-360 and it was a bit of a squeeze until I discovered the label was overlapping the "wiring" for the protection circuit on one side of the cell. I slit the label (not the shrink wrap) and peeled off the part that was overlapping and now it's perfect.




:thumbsup: Thank you for the tip!


----------



## Grijon

Swedpat said:


> I understand according to as well personal experience and others report that some Keeppower cells are larger sized than other brands. A few years ago I ordered a bunch of Keeppower 18500 1700mAh cells. Unfortunately these don't fit in any of my lights. Too bad because they were intended for Malkoff MD3 body. But I keep them waiting for some future flashlight.




:twothumbs


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Wow twin thats some catching up for me to do :laughing: I am looking forward to the 6p like a kid! Not had a SF yet, only solarforces of which depending on model can be nice quality or a bit cheap feel(yep i know budget so cant expect too much). The p1d and L2T are my fav ones so far, the stainless i really like!
> 
> Think i am going a little retro and do fancy the warm bulb output now..............yep read that right. Just for the ..........how can i put it,the experience, re-living my youth.........maybe incan is the new old option for me. For this i do blame mike 100% on that part, his great threads and beam pics just floats my boat!



Wow, I am surprised ven, that you do not have any SureFire lights yet. I myself have been planning to get the 6P/G2 but because of limited funds and Zebralights I have difficulties doing so. 
I fancy the incan too. Hope you enjoy yours!


----------



## ven

newbie66 said:


> Wow, I am surprised ven, that you do not have any SureFire lights yet. I myself have been planning to get the 6P/G2 but because of limited funds and Zebralights I have difficulties doing so.
> I fancy the incan too. Hope you enjoy yours!





































Must admit i was underwhelmed when fired up :laughing: But it has character and may leave it incan yet! going to try it out at night for a bit 1st!
I mean i have been away from bulbs for ..........well lets say its that long i cant remember other than back in 1991 and the mag i had. Of course being used to silly outputs, spoiled for LED/tint options and thats before you get to mode options!. 

However there is something nostalgic in the air of this p6, that alone may be enough to leave it in incan flavour. Mike has sure played a BIG part in this :laughing: and i thank him for it my empty wallet is gunna kick his a55 though :laughing: (he is a cool dude). 

The UI i like, same as the x3vn i had with the twisty tail cap or have a little loose and press..........yep did not expect that! Either way i like!

For what you can find them for newbie i would recommend getting one, sure even a CPF friend state side may help if you decide. I just went on ebay.com for ease and worked out at about £45 or so which i was happy with. I know many have found for $30 or so, bargain! but i can easily see $60-$80 in the light and it is built to last. The walls are thick, it will just last and can be handed down............and down type/ kind of light. I should have got 2 now ! could have passed one on............Once i have caught up a bit and order again(couple of month after this spree), will add a couple to the list.

Little play












Seans(SOYCD) Nichia triple




So impressions on my 1st SF light, what can i say but the difference in quality over solarforce lights is substantial, really is a nicely made light and of a timeless design. Nothing to not like, only regret for not biting on the SF front earlier...........In truth it was the cells that stopped me, no 18650 support(of course the boring option to get around it but cost/time and distracted by other lights)

My solution thanks to tips off CPF is simple........x4 of






Now i may throw a sportac triple in it yet or baby it a little with my others on the way.

I am catching up newbie, kind of both feet within 24hrs :laughing: I have Barry's C2 bored with trits also on the way(probably my most desired model out of the surefires, just like the design/form and size that can be used!) and JP's M2 as well.........with all the instructions/box etc.......made up with my 1st 3 surefires of which within reason will be it!.......yeh yeh i know Just fells better to type it :laughing:


To be updated, now happy to be apart of the surefire crew and do acknowledge that i have missed out!...........all good things come to those who wait.............and its never too late!


----------



## kj2

Great addition to the collection ven  Noticed yours has a QR-code at the tail, mine doesn't. My SN starts with A627.

And now... all there is left is.. to order a Malkoff


----------



## ven

kj2 said:


> Great addition to the collection ven  Noticed yours has a QR-code at the tail, mine doesn't. My SN starts with A627.
> 
> And now... all there is left is.. to order a Malkoff




Your a bad man Kev..........but a correct one :nana:

All in time my friend, spent too much tbh as being ill and surfing on here= expensive! 

Yes i noticed that so undone the cap to show in pic, the cells are marked




C2 and M2 on the way kj2, pics of course once arrive. Even ordered an M2 HA cryos bezel just in case...............(kind of love the large M2 head tbh so dont really know why i did :laughing:...........guess its nice to have the option for change if i feel the need)

Oh and you missed out elzetta :nana:


 what have i done...........


----------



## w2edv

I've used a 6Px for a little over a year now; it's stored in a pouch on the side of my EDC backpack. I've been impressed with the SF's quality, its feel and its performance. There is something to be said about the 6's removable head, but I like the "x" and wouldn't hesitate in buying another.


----------



## bykfixer

^^ when only this will do...
From your surefire 6p, that incan will not excite ya.... Not for long anyway. 

So unless the nostalgia aspect of a once seen as mighty bright light (with football shaped spot) floats your boat, then ya gotta do that defy physics thing and go all out Ven.

I recently bought my wife some silicone gloves (not mitts) for pulling her metal work stuff out of the toaster oven. You may find something like those useful for handling your spiced up 6P.

My first 6P got a P60 mimic-ing Malkoff WLL. Except for the better beam pattern they're pretty similar. Next was a WL. Noteably brighter with a 5 hour regulated runtime vs dimming with the P60 beginning in minutes and all but dead about an hour later.
Then an NLwas tried. 
In terms of a 6P or G2 beam many, many, many crumudgens say that's their favorite... including yours truely.


----------



## ven

:laughing: i need me one of them! 

Early days.......ok hours, to me the 6p is a work light in feel,size and build so really a drop in not to melt it would suit it as a host. Seans nichia triple 4 mode really goes well with the 6p. No crazy 4000lm stuff for 30s , just several 100 4500k lumens of usefulness ..........Have an EDC plus ordered from a bit back due in, this is neutral xpg2 flavour but starts in high..........why? Anyway i needed another drop in with the SF's coming in so worth a shot!

Still i think malkoff is the true answer for the 6p and in time i will get a warm flavour to help recreate the incan flavour..........but in a lot more purposeful beam. 

Kev n Mike, my invoice will be sent to you for my new found illness:nana:


----------



## kj2

ven said:


> Your a bad man Kev..........but a correct one :nana:
> 
> All in time my friend, spent too much tbh as being ill and surfing on here= expensive!
> 
> Yes i noticed that so undone the cap to show in pic, the cells are marked





ven said:


> Kev n Mike, my invoice will be sent to you for my new found illness:nana:



My cells that came with my 6P look different. All red and with more writing on them. Also different colors.
Did get those red/black batts with my G2X LE.

You've my email  My secretary will take it from there


----------



## ven

kj2 said:


> My cells that came with my 6P look different. All red and with more writing on them. Also different colors.
> Did get those red/black batts with my G2X LE.
> 
> You've my email  My secretary will take it from there




:laughing: 

well you fell lucky,i had to let my secretary go unfortunately so cant forward my billing.



Cant afford her anymore due to unforeseen surefire expenses caused by...........:nana:


----------



## bykfixer

^^ these came in my 014 models




^^ these were in my 09 models
I may have it backwards...will check when I get home.
Edited to correct the numbers..yeah I had it backwards.




^^ 014 logo




^^ the 09 logo.

Donald Trump is my secratary, but he's kinda busy lately... that whole running for president thing has him kinda distracted... so your bill may not get processed in a timely manner... hope you don't mind.


----------



## ven

Guess i have been trumped! 

I need a shiny 6p in the packet..........mind you i would end up giving it Callum if i had another, heck once my C2 and M2 come, might give him this........"Hey Cal, what do you think of this FBI light"................snatch a runs to bedroom, opens his torch cabinet and in it goes :laughing:

FBI on the packet...........love it!





The actual bulb is a little work or art, love the spring work


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Early weapon light tech.
Simple but very effective. 





^^ left was Streamlights answer.
The TL2 shock proof was rated to with stand being clamped to a 12 gauge shotgun, provided 20 more lumens from an easily replaced $3 bi-pin bulb, yet didn't catch on. They sold a bunch. But SureFire sold a lot more 6P lights. 
They still make the standard TL2 btw. I have an 01 and an 015 model of the TL 2 incan with it's weak attempt at a focus beam. 




^^ a little something to chew on.




^^ the TL shock proof and regular assembly

Early in (LED) history some folks were working on upgrades for Streamlights. But orders were so hot n heavy for 6P stuff they abandoned their other efforts like Pelican mods, Streamlight and Mags. 
The irony is those guys still make their popular incans while SureFire recently re-discontinued the model 6...


----------



## ven

Cool info and pics , giving me a thirst to check some incan options out ! 

All pretty much new to me on the bulb front! Need more than 60lm though.......100 I could get by with,200 even better for my uses.


----------



## kj2

Still in doubt, if I should order a SF Z59 that fits the 6P. It's discontinued, but know a place that still has it. Kinda pricey though..


----------



## peter yetman

kj2 said:


> Still in doubt, if I should order a SF Z59 that fits the 6P. It's discontinued, but know a place that still has it. Kinda pricey though..



Could you not put a McClicky in your existing tailcap? Very easy, and not too expensive. Illumn had them last time I looked.
http://www.illumn.com/edcplus-mcclicky-kit-for-surefire-z41-p-c-z-g-black-switchboot.html
Also in Orange and Gitd Green boots.
P


----------



## kj2

Point is, is that case I've tear down the original switch. Would like to be able to switch. Plus shipping internationally is often even more expensive than the product.


----------



## ven

The m2 came in today, brother to my p6 Big thanks to blazer, pleasure to deal with!

All accessories as well!












Dad n lad











Bezel ring tool







Instruction booklet to, very cool diagram inside




P60vn xpl HI 5000k drvervnx2.............not used in anger!


----------



## Timothybil

kj2 said:


> Point is, is that case I've tear down the original switch. Would like to be able to switch. Plus shipping internationally is often even more expensive than the product.


Surefire has a spot on their website where you can order replacement parts, no questions asked. Some of the parts available are the tail caps for the 6P and G2. Install the McClicky in that tail cap, and you haven't done anything to the original, and have one of each.

FY!, Lumens Factory is now selling the McClicky switch with a copper retaining ring for a reasonable price. And since their shipping cost to the US is very reasonable, I would expect it to be reasonable to the Netherlands as well. If you have any questions, just drop Mark a note at [email protected].


----------



## bykfixer

kj2 said:


> Still in doubt, if I should order a SF Z59 that fits the 6P. It's discontinued, but know a place that still has it. Kinda pricey though..



There's something cool about a clicky 6P. The Z59 is over priced imo, but it is money well spent if you want your light to be a clicky. It's a good switch. 
If there's a genuine article available you may regret not getting one later (when the genuines are gone).

If you can find one on your side of the pond, the Malkoff is a viable tail standing alternative. They're $26 and occasionaly available in blemished for about $15.


Digging that dynamic duo there Ven.


----------



## ven

Cheers Mike, hopefully you will dig my triple more once the c2 arrives

Still have an M2 bezel to come, just to see if i like it or not...........

Need the m2 bored really so i can get some decent fuel in there..........Not sure how good the sanyo 16650's are for higher drain, it still powered the quad on 100% output, sure it was probably ~60% of it though ,if makes sense(not going to get 4000lm from a 16650!)


----------



## twin63

Nice M2 ven. That is one solid looking light.


----------



## ven

Thanks, hopefully if I get some time at weekend I will try out the incan side


----------



## DellSuperman

I have a BNIB M2 but I do not know what to do with it.. 
Cant bear to use it. Hahaha.. 

Dilemma dilemma


----------



## staticx57

Well, joining the club. Bought one on the bay. I also got some 16650 which will under drive the bulb but I'd rather that than spend money on even more cr123. It also came with cells of this vintage so I am guessing old stock?


----------



## ven

DellSuperman said:


> I have a BNIB M2 but I do not know what to do with it..
> Cant bear to use it. Hahaha..
> 
> Dilemma dilemma



This is the same (did not take any in box pics) and made up I managed to get one .
This is the sale with better pics than mine
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?416746-SOLD-Surefire-M2-centurion-new-in-box-SOD

I lost out on one here in the UK although not a new condition one. Missed it by a £1 :laughing: iirc it went for £80 ish and would have been a work user. 

This is too nice to be dropped and dinged on factory floors so will be used at home/walks/camping but still babied . I have come to the conclusion life is too short to not use stuff. Never know what's round the corner and if you sell someone else will only enjoy it! Enjoy it yourself, treat to a nice drop in and enjoy ! Too special to be sat on a shelf but that's just me.


----------



## ven

Congrats staticx , I am late to the party too, but hey we made it in the end


----------



## newbie66

Wow ven, just read your reply and all the posts from others. Boy am I late. I did not notice the replies on cpf.
It is great that you enjoy your 6p. I agree that incan has its charm. 
I was surprised you even got the m2 and later c2 plus mods too! You make me envious! 
I am definitely gonna get the 6p. The question is when.


----------



## DellSuperman

newbie66 said:


> Wow ven, just read your reply and all the posts from others. Boy am I late. I did not notice the replies on cpf.
> It is great that you enjoy your 6p. I agree that incan has its charm.
> I was surprised you even got the m2 and later c2 plus mods too! You make me envious!
> I am definitely gonna get the 6p. The question is when.


Get it soon & u will love it. Hahaha.. 
There are just so many options available to customize to ur likings.


----------



## Timothybil

staticx57 said:


> Well, joining the club. Bought one on the bay. I also got some 16650 which will under drive the bulb but I'd rather that than spend money on even more cr123. It also came with cells of this vintage so I am guessing old stock?


You could always get a Lumens Factory 3.7v incan drop in. They have the HO-4 at 150 lumens and ~60 min run time, and the EO-4 at 190 lumens and ~40 min run time. Both are 3300K.


----------



## staticx57

Timothybil said:


> You could always get a Lumens Factory 3.7v incan drop in. They have the HO-4 at 150 lumens and ~60 min run time, and the EO-4 at 190 lumens and ~40 min run time. Both are 3300K.



Thanks for that. I had no idea, still so much to learn.  Does sound hard to beat. 150-190 Lumens at 100 CRI does sound nice.


----------



## staticx57

ven said:


> Congrats staticx , I am late to the party too, but hey we made it in the end


Ha we did. I am trying to build a modest collection and I need some of all types. I have far too many LEDs and not enough Incans and this is a great place to start.


----------



## nfetterly

Try a P91 with 2 imr 16340s. (or 18350s if bored)

I'm fortunate as years ago I bought AWs 3 level soft start switch - really makes it rock. I bought up a bunch of P91s a few years ago at $10 a piece.


As noted above there are so may things available to customize a 6P.


----------



## newbie66

DellSuperman said:


> Get it soon & u will love it. Hahaha..
> There are just so many options available to customize to ur likings.



Will do!


----------



## ven

All complete on the light front for now, just drop ins to come and done for a bit












If i use the xhp70 5000k de-dome in the C2 its bored so 2x 18350 to feed it, if in the M2 then 2x 16340 IMR to feed!

Happy days!


----------



## scout24

Very nice collection!


----------



## ven

Thank you  you guys over the pond have cost me a few $'s and thank you all for it.............well my wallet doesnt:tsk:

I always wanted a SF and the fuel always stopped me, the C2 being bored is great, the M2 and 6p will be fed on either 2x 16340 IMR or 16650 fuel dependent on drop in used.

Love them scout, real nice and the C2 has been my most wanted of all of them(the M2 not far behind but learned of this after the C2 as i am an noob), just the flat body design............dont know............just like it all.

Cant wait to try the HA m2 cryos bezel out once it arrives


----------



## newbie66

Nice! :thumbsup:


----------



## ven

Cheers, just a drop in shortage :laughing: couple on the way from the states so i can have all my p60 hosts full and not hungry! 
Have some in work spare ,but thats where they will be staying for now(sportac triples).


----------



## NoNotAgain

kj2 said:


> Point is, is that case I've tear down the original switch. Would like to be able to switch. Plus shipping internationally is often even more expensive than the product.



That just means you've got to purchase more to offset shipping costs. 

Found a deal on DIN blanking caps. $8 each with $6 postage for one or $8 for 6. Needless to say, I've now got 6 plugs. 

The blanking plug covers the Surefire Hellfighter external power port when not in use.


----------



## kj2

NoNotAgain said:


> That just means you've got to purchase more to offset shipping costs.
> .


Which also means custom taxes will be higher..


----------



## Grizzman

A common solution is to contact a helpful CPF-er that lives in the US that's willing to purchase the light for you. At that point you can use whatever low cost/high risk shipping methods you're comfortable using.


----------



## ven

Not a 6p again, but made up the cryos m2 has come in


----------



## newbie66

Woo, looks sweet!


----------



## Inebriated

My 6P arrived today. And I immediately bought a second (this happened to me with the EB1-T... I'm apparently a sucker for a good tailcap).

I have exactly 5 minutes with it, but I was expecting a much lower output light. I knew the build quality would be as good as any of my other Surefires, but I just didn't expect much from the actual light. I was wrong. The beam is fantastic for the quoted lumen output. Great throw, reasonable enough spill, and the tint is _so_ warm! This is my first incan in years (as in, since I was a kid), so I really didn't expect it to be that warm. I like it, though. 

I expected to get the light, poke around with it a little and force myself use it, all while appreciating my LED's more and more... but I _genuinely_ like this light, and I could absolutely live with just this, be it in a pocket, backpack, or on a rifle. The tailcap is just perfect, it's got enough texture that rotating for constant with one hand is not an issue, and I refuse to own lights that aren't able to be locked out. I'm definitely going to run this light as-is, and use the other one for an LED host. Incan is just too cool (take that as a pun if you want) for my only one to be swapped to an LED.

So, I can't say why the 6P is so good in the long run, but having a lot of time with the newer Surefires, the 6P offers everything I like about Surefire... good general build quality, a beam that handles the output well, and this is absolutely my favorite tailcap style. Maybe other companies do it just as well or better, but the 6P seems to be just, well... good.


----------



## sgt253

+1. It just works! Enjoy.


----------



## bykfixer

Inebriated said:


> My 6P arrived today. And I immediately bought a second (this happened to me with the EB1-T... I'm apparently a sucker for a good tailcap).
> 
> I have exactly 5 minutes with it, but I was expecting a much lower output light. I knew the build quality would be as good as any of my other Surefires, but I just didn't expect much from the actual light. I was wrong. The beam is fantastic for the quoted lumen output. Great throw, reasonable enough spill, and the tint is _so_ warm! This is my first incan in years (as in, since I was a kid), so I really didn't expect it to be that warm. I like it, though.
> 
> I expected to get the light, poke around with it a little and force myself use it, all while appreciating my LED's more and more... but I _genuinely_ like this light, and I could absolutely live with just this, be it in a pocket, backpack, or on a rifle. The tailcap is just perfect, it's got enough texture that rotating for constant with one hand is not an issue, and I refuse to own lights that aren't able to be locked out. I'm definitely going to run this light as-is, and use the other one for an LED host. Incan is just too cool (take that as a pun if you want) for my only one to be swapped to an LED.
> 
> So, I can't say why the 6P is so good in the long run, but having a lot of time with the newer Surefires, the 6P offers everything I like about Surefire... good general build quality, a beam that handles the output well, and this is absolutely my favorite tailcap style. Maybe other companies do it just as well or better, but the 6P seems to be just, well... good.



If you dig that beam as is, consider the Malkoff M61 WLL for your next one.
Very, very close to the P60 beam with 10x the runtime of the P60.


----------



## Inebriated

bykfixer said:


> If you dig that beam as is, consider the Malkoff M61 WLL for your next one.
> Very, very close to the P60 beam with 10x the runtime of the P60.


Awesome, thanks! I actually briefly looked at Malkoff's options, and was planning on going with them anyway. That WLL looks like _exactly_ what I want.


----------



## newbie66

Nooooooo!!! I just bought a 6p led defender because my one and only local SureFire dealer did not have the 6p incan anymore.

It was a mistake... 

Can't swap the drop in as it is fixed. The bezel has "KX4D" printed on it. The output is120 lumens and an unimpressive tint(to be expected from an outdated LED). Don't know what to do with it. Can't return it as local dealer will only accept it if it is defective, and it is not.


----------



## ven

Bummer I thought that accepted p60's as well!! Well other than sell, how about some diffuser film to change the tint to a more friendly on the eye one. Just a thought, maybe a glove box light or house emergency etc. Always find a use ...

Looks nice anyway , shame about the tint and drop in bit....


----------



## newbie66

I think I am willing to trade it for a 6p incan if it cannot be modded easily. What a mistake. Thought it was the same.


----------



## ven

Well I would have made that mistake too, as I like the defender bezel design. Maybe someone will swap with a few 6p's to their name, just for a change!


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Well I would have made that mistake too, as I like the defender bezel design. Maybe someone will swap with a few 6p's to their name, just for a change!



At least now you and everyone who reads this thread will know and b more careful. My mistake may have saved others. Oh well, I will just wait and see if someone can offer me something.


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Bummer I thought that accepted p60's as well!! Well other than sell, how about some diffuser film to change the tint to a more friendly on the eye one. Just a thought, maybe a glove box light or house emergency etc. Always find a use ...
> 
> Looks nice anyway , shame about the tint and drop in bit....




I thought so too. I don't think any diffuser will improve the tint much to my liking. Love the looks too. I will jist use it for fun I think and just keep it until an opportunity to do something about it comes along.


----------



## newbie66

double post


----------



## peter yetman

I've been following this thread for ages, and thinking how nice and quaint is was that people still use incans.
Yesterday I put a spare P60 in my unused G2, and now I can see what the fuss is about. It's a bright and lovely beam. I can now imagine actually using the thing especially as a Summer light. I don't think anything is going to replace my Leds for going out in the woods in the dark but this thing is brilliant. I might have to start looking at the low output M61s.
I think I've been comletely spoilt by the high output lights, and could never imagine finding 65Lm useful. Shame they wear out, though.
Thanks for putting me back on track.
P


----------



## scout24

Newbie66- Maybe you can source an incan Z44 bezel, it will screw right on... The body and tailcap are the same. Might be easier.


----------



## Tribull

I have 2 P60, I second the WLL. I have it in both and love it having grown up with incans.


----------



## peter yetman

scout24 said:


> Newbie66- Maybe you can source an incan Z44 bezel, it will screw right on... The body and tailcap are the same. Might be easier.




Good thinking, Batman.
P


----------



## bykfixer

Pm sent newbie.


----------



## ven

scout24 said:


> Newbie66- Maybe you can source an incan Z44 bezel, it will screw right on... The body and tailcap are the same. Might be easier.




Surefire genius!


----------



## newbie66

bykfixer said:


> Pm sent newbie.



Thanks for the info.


----------



## newbie66

scout24 said:


> Newbie66- Maybe you can source an incan Z44 bezel, it will screw right on... The body and tailcap are the same. Might be easier.



Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Toohotruk

You could always sell the unwanted head on the Marketplace and then buy a Z44 head, or even a Solarforce head to replace it.


----------



## newbie66

Toohotruk said:


> You could always sell the unwanted head on the Marketplace and then buy a Z44 head, or even a Solarforce head to replace it.



I was thinking of getting a Solarforce head. Haven't decided yet what to do with the KX4D head. Might keep it as a spare quality head in case others fail.


----------



## Up All Night

I would keep the KX4, it may be fugly but it is voltage flexible. Grab a Z44 on the cheap or a Solarforce.


----------



## newbie66

Up All Night said:


> I would keep the KX4, it may be fugly but it is voltage flexible. Grab a Z44 on the cheap or a Solarforce.



I may keep the KX4D for now. Grabbing a Solarforce L2 head. Z44 later on.


----------



## ven

Thanks to P who has borrowed me a triad, I have done the 6p up a little . Now looks better balanced and suits the 6p to a T(or P) 

Pics or it's not true





Has the new drop in off Matt (VOB) xhp70 de-dome of around 4500-5000k and one of the most amazing beams I have seen! 
























Triple nichia is the usual resident of this 6p







Its going to go incan for a bit again and for longer , to try out better!


----------



## peter yetman

That tail certainly balances out the head - looks good.
P


----------



## ven

Yes defo P, makes the light look complete and not half ar5e :laughing: The cryos can be got away with on some lights, the 6p is quite plain(part of the actual appeal ) so if dressed for Saturday night,just a fancy shirt ain't enough to pull !


----------



## newbie66

Nice pics! Incan does have its place.


----------



## newbie66

Okay, so I got my Solarforce L2 head yesterday and I it fits well in my 6p led defender with a P60 incan lamp. Well it works! Even tried dunking it water for several minutes and found no water ingress. 
Pics below:


----------



## bykfixer

Looks good!!


How about a pic or two of the tailcap. It looks different than the 6P type.


----------



## ven

Looks really well does that, nice set up!!! When/if you get bored.................you can make it into a pocket beast!! 3000-4000lm of awesomeness:naughty:

Big congrats anyway:thumbsup: now where does it go from here.............as its pretty much endless


----------



## ven

bykfixer said:


> Looks good!!
> 
> 
> How about a pic or two of the tailcap. It looks different than the 6P type.



Maybe a little different due to being a defender model


----------



## ven

Couple of random pics


----------



## newbie66

bykfixer said:


> Looks good!!
> 
> 
> How about a pic or two of the tailcap. It looks different than the 6P type.



It is a clicky type. Not a twisty. It seems the defender model has this. Which is part of the reason why it makes it difficult for me to let go of it.







[URL=http://s1077.photobucket.com/user/newbie66/media/SF-6P-ledDefender-L2solarforceHead_07_zpscegqr7ye.jpg.html]


[/URL]


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Looks really well does that, nice set up!!! When/if you get bored.................you can make it into a pocket beast!! 3000-4000lm of awesomeness:naughty:
> 
> Big congrats anyway:thumbsup: now where does it go from here.............as its pretty much endless



Thanks! Not sure where it goes at the moment, hehe.

Cool pics, that tailcap is SureFire's? A clicky?


----------



## m4a1usr

newbie66 said:


> Thanks! Not sure where it goes at the moment, hehe.
> 
> Cool pics, that tailcap is SureFire's? A clicky?



It's a Z59 and yes it's a Surefire clicky.


----------



## newbie66

m4a1usr said:


> It's a Z59 and yes it's a Surefire clicky.



Nice, same as mine then, just different style. Allows ven to tailstand it.


----------



## m4a1usr

newbie66 said:


> Nice, same as mine then, just different style. Allows ven to tailstand it.



My bad. I thought you were talking about the TC on the defender. The one in the last pics. The Triad TC is a aftermarket made by Oveready.


----------



## Grizzman

Ven's Triad likely has a McClicky switch in it, which is a highly regarded switch created by Don McLeish, of McGizmo fame.

The Z59 uses a Surefire designed switch with more limited amperage capacity and (likely) longevity.


----------



## ven

Yes you can get mcclicky or zerorez options, or like P he choice the threaded tripod option which is cool

Poor quality............







Not sure which Don has put in mine(HA natural on order), think zerorez option but dont know 100% as left 2 options and paid another $16 difference after ordering.


----------



## newbie66

m4a1usr said:


> My bad. I thought you were talking about the TC on the defender. The one in the last pics. The Triad TC is a aftermarket made by Oveready.



No problem.


----------



## newbie66

Grizzman said:


> Ven's Triad likely has a McClicky switch in it, which is a highly regarded switch created by Don McLeish, of McGizmo fame.
> 
> The Z59 uses a Surefire designed switch with more limited amperage capacity and (likely) longevity.



Thanks for the info. Although sad to know that SureFire switch is inferior.


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Yes you can get mcclicky or zerorez options, or like P he choice the threaded tripod option which is cool
> 
> Poor quality............
> 
> 
> Not sure which Don has put in mine(HA natural on order), think zerorez option but dont know 100% as left 2 options and paid another $16 difference after ordering.



It is alright if photo quality is poor. I only have a cellphone as my camera. 

So, if you chose the tripod option, I am guessing it a twisty.


----------



## ven

newbie66 said:


> Thanks for the info. Although sad to know that SureFire switch is inferior.



I have used solarforce clicky switches(reverse which does help and sure good for about 3a which is enough for most drop ins..........within reason)on quads and stuff issue free.............granted not used in anger at full tilt for long duration's which you cant anyway with heat! Yet to have one fail on me anyway............not a recommend, but not a worry either imo.

These SF's of mine are all twisty which i kind of like for a couple of reasons, 1st is a presumption-will handle current better,2nd- just a change for the UI, last light i had was a 47's x3vn which had the same UI with a clicky and twisty...............just works!! The SF's can be done single handed to which is a bonus at times!

Its a little fun with the programmable drivers :laughing: but soon get used to it! The mode select flashes dont work until its locked, then have to unlock it to start,have to count 1 less click for mode group. So for example if its mode group 8, do 7 presses then the tighten is 8. Otherwise its a mode group out(if makes sense as a little hard to describe)


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> I have used solarforce clicky switches(reverse which does help and sure good for about 3a which is enough for most drop ins..........within reason)on quads and stuff issue free.............granted not used in anger at full tilt for long duration's which you cant anyway with heat! Yet to have one fail on me anyway............not a recommend, but not a worry either imo.
> 
> These SF's of mine are all twisty which i kind of like for a couple of reasons, 1st is a presumption-will handle current better,2nd- just a change for the UI, last light i had was a 47's x3vn which had the same UI with a clicky and twisty...............just works!! The SF's can be done single handed to which is a bonus at times!
> 
> Its a little fun with the programmable drivers :laughing: but soon get used to it! The mode select flashes dont work until its locked, then have to unlock it to start,have to count 1 less click for mode group. So for example if its mode group 8, do 7 presses then the tighten is 8. Otherwise its a mode group out(if makes sense as a little hard to describe)



Wow, all those programmable drivers sound quite complex. Thought my Zebralight was complicated enough. 
Anyway, I think I will stick to stock set-up. Afraid to mess around too much(I am terrible at any kinds of mods) and blowing a hole in my wallet(or bank account ). Limited $$$ is an issue, so gonna have to slow down somewhat, and also the reason why I could only afford to use a cheap phone with poor quality photos.

Besides, I am having fun playing with stock incan too. I was thinking in the future I might get a Malkoff WL or something that is close to incan tint.


----------



## ven

Enjoy the incan!!!No need to spend big newbie, i highly recommend the sportac triple nichia 2 mode at 20%(great for most uses) and 100% which is around 650 OTF lumens(ample and some for most general uses outdoors) Very nicely made and nice tint to boot! Very good value drop ins imho..............i have a couple for work and wont use a reflector base light now due to bounce back/reflections and used to the nice flood(of course everyone has different preferences and all dependent on use in mind).

The drivers are not bad at all, most are a quick 8 presses to access the groups which is indicated by the light starting to flash, after this no need for quick presses, just press X amount for that group..............really user friendly tbh and lots of flexibility there to suit 99% of users wants(say 99% as there will always be something that does not suite everyone).

The malkoff i have coming is the neutral which i believe is 4000k(although strictly speaking it is a neutral, to me its on the warmer side of ) so should suit the 6p to a T


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Enjoy the incan!!!No need to spend big newbie, i highly recommend the sportac triple nichia 2 mode at 20%(great for most uses) and 100% which is around 650 OTF lumens(ample and some for most general uses outdoors) Very nicely made and nice tint to boot! Very good value drop ins imho..............i have a couple for work and wont use a reflector base light now due to bounce back/reflections and used to the nice flood(of course everyone has different preferences and all dependent on use in mind).
> 
> The drivers are not bad at all, most are a quick 8 presses to access the groups which is indicated by the light starting to flash, after this no need for quick presses, just press X amount for that group..............really user friendly tbh and lots of flexibility there to suit 99% of users wants(say 99% as there will always be something that does not suite everyone).
> 
> The malkoff i have coming is the neutral which i believe is 4000k(although strictly speaking it is a neutral, to me its on the warmer side of ) so should suit the 6p to a T



Thanks ven! The sportac seems nice. Does the it need to be wrapped in tape for tight fit and does it need an adapter ring?

Do give your opinion on the Malkoff once it arrives and I guess I am overthinking on the complexity of programmable drivers.


----------



## ven

newbie66 said:


> Thanks ven! The sportac seems nice. Does the it need to be wrapped in tape for tight fit and does it need an adapter ring?
> 
> Do give your opinion on the Malkoff once it arrives and I guess I am overthinking on the complexity of programmable drivers.



Depending on light yes you need a ring, however it does come with one in the pack. Fit wise, i have done a little wrap on mine to make more snug ............

I had wrapped a few quads with copper tape(stuff you use on guitars) and had to remove it to fit in the surefire lights..........so its dependent on light really and certain tolerances. From my very limited experience with surefire and solarforce, the latter requires wraps,former not. In fact on my lights you could feel the contact when fitting the drop ins(slight scrape as it went in).

Will do:thumbsup: hopefully here in the next few days as its left London..............means nothing really as it can get 1000's of miles to the UK within 3 days yet still take 5+ to get 200+ miles :laughing:


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Depending on light yes you need a ring, however it does come with one in the pack. Fit wise, i have done a little wrap on mine to make more snug ............
> 
> I had wrapped a few quads with copper tape(stuff you use on guitars) and had to remove it to fit in the surefire lights..........so its dependent on light really and certain tolerances. From my very limited experience with surefire and solarforce, the latter requires wraps,former not. In fact on my lights you could feel the contact when fitting the drop ins(slight scrape as it went in).
> 
> Will do:thumbsup: hopefully here in the next few days as its left London..............means nothing really as it can get 1000's of miles to the UK within 3 days yet still take 5+ to get 200+ miles :laughing:



Thanks! Hopefully if I do get the dropin I will know what to properly do with it.

Guess shipping can take a while for you, but the important thing is that it reaches you.


----------



## ven

Sometimes 8 days, others over 2 weeks.............if customs then longer luckily its not too often! I love the USPS saying delivered when its not, then to find out by lots of calls and tracing its at a PO box awaiting a charge!!!

I remember my 1st time and it was :thinking: , but it all falls into place quick! Just put copper tape 15mm or 20mm in on ebay for ideas. Its sticky back but quite thin so may take 3 wraps or so!. Do a couple of wraps and check,repeat etc............Can be a pita to get off(especially if you dont have nails!) . Then simply kitchen foil, folded into correct width and wrap around..........(sure vinh has done a video on it if you check his channel..............not sure!)


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Sometimes 8 days, others over 2 weeks.............if customs then longer luckily its not too often! I love the USPS saying delivered when its not, then to find out by lots of calls and tracing its at a PO box awaiting a charge!!!
> 
> I remember my 1st time and it was :thinking: , but it all falls into place quick! Just put copper tape 15mm or 20mm in on ebay for ideas. Its sticky back but quite thin so may take 3 wraps or so!. Do a couple of wraps and check,repeat etc............Can be a pita to get off(especially if you dont have nails!) . Then simply kitchen foil, folded into correct width and wrap around..........(sure vinh has done a video on it if you check his channel..............not sure!)



I agree that USPS is not accurate. So far customs in my country(in my limited purchases) gets cleared in roughly half a day(items I bought did not get taxed) then gets sent to post office for delivery. After that it will reach me within 2 working days. I have not ordered from overseas a lot so this is from limited experience. 

If I get it and don't know what to do I'll ask again.


----------



## ven

Just pm me if there is anything your not sure on, if struggling to get anything pm me again:thumbsup:


----------



## newbie66

ven said:


> Just pm me if there is anything your not sure on, if struggling to get anything pm me again:thumbsup:




Okie dokie!


----------



## ven

Another addition but not a 6p.........sorry guys(love the 6p but love the c2 more).Big thanks to Matthew sending me this minter








Now the drop in part:thinking:still the EDCplus and malkoff to come yet


----------



## RoBeacon

dutchguy2 said:


> Please can somone explain to me why this 6P is so damn good. I have several other lights like a Mag 5D, Mag 2C, a Fenix P3D, and some no name models.
> 
> Some of them throw more light or have greater reach but none of them is overall so good as my P6!
> 
> Is it its size, is it the bulb, the looks, the feel, all of them??
> 
> What are your feelings about the 6P??



When I got into this hobby I was LED all the way but I miss the Warmth. Any time I come across a neutral LED light I usually scoop it up. This thread has inspired me though and I just purchased a new Surefire 6P on Ebay for 36 bucks shipped!!!


----------



## staticx57

RoBeacon said:


> When I got into this hobby I was LED all the way but I miss the Warmth. Any time I come across a neutral LED light I usually scoop it up. This thread has inspired me though and I just purchased a new Surefire 6P on Ebay for 36 bucks shipped!!!



I try to avoid all other LEDs other than HCRI Nichia's these days for this reason. They tend to be pretty neutral not warm but at least you aren't missing Reds like you are with almost every other emitter.

Anyways, due to the suggestion in this thread I just got this in the mail. And as you can tell it is already in the 6P. Excited to try it out tonight.


----------



## markr6

I saw some clearance P6 incans at my Gander Mountain yesterday. I was tempted to pick one up thinking it was a killer deal at $39. But then I saw that was pretty much the rate online, at least the one I saw on amazon.


----------



## cmanley

eBay has Z44 bezels at a reasonable price


----------



## newbie66

cmanley said:


> eBay has Z44 bezels at a reasonable price



Shipping is above 20$ though. Okay for some i suppose.


----------



## peter yetman

There's a 6P on fourleafflashlights.com $34, dunno how many they have.
P


----------



## fyrstormer

Why is the Surefire P60 so good? Because it was designed to meet a simple, well-defined set of requirements, and within the envelope of those requirements no expense was spared to achieve them.

Those requirements don't meet *my* needs very well, which is why I don't use a P60, but I can't deny that it's a great product for the people it was intended to serve.


----------



## newbie66

peter yetman said:


> There's a 6P on fourleafflashlights.com $34, dunno how many they have.
> P




Interesting.

Wonder if anyone has any experience dealing with them.


----------



## scout24

I believe that is member lightknot here on CPF. Good guy from what I hear.


----------



## newbie66

scout24 said:


> I believe that is member lightknot here on CPF. Good guy from what I hear.



That is good to know. Might deal with him in the future(near future?). A bit tied down at the moment.


----------



## peter yetman

newbie66 said:


> That is good to know. Might deal with him in the future(near future?). A bit tied down at the moment.


People can pay good money for that.
P


----------



## newbie66

peter yetman said:


> People can pay good money for that.
> P



Lol!


----------



## jondextan

Can the 6P take 2x RCR133a? How about 2x16340?


----------



## scout24

They will physically fit, yes. The bulb would need to be replaced with another that ran on that voltage. Stock bulb would POOF on increased voltage. See Lumensfactory for bulbs that fit, and run on 2xrcr or 16340's.


----------



## Grizzman

jondextan said:


> Can the 6P take 2x RCR133a? How about 2x16340?



A 6P with the incandescent P60 lamp will not accept more voltage than provided by two CR123 primaries. Two Li-Ions will make it .

A single 16650 or 17670 will safely generate light, but it will be lower in output and most likely more yellow than is achieved with two primaries.


----------



## jondextan

thanks guys appreciate it. i'm expecting a new 6P anytime now.


----------



## StorminMatt

Grizzman said:


> A 6P with the incandescent P60 lamp will not accept more voltage than provided by two CR123 primaries. Two Li-Ions will make it .
> 
> A single 16650 or 17670 will safely generate light, but it will be lower in output and most likely more yellow than is achieved with two primaries.



This refers to the stock drop-in. If you wish to stay incandescent, you can always go to Lumens Factory and get a drop-in optimized for the voltage you wish to use (including 1x16650 or 2x16340).


----------



## bigbob76

dutchguy2 said:


> Please can somone explain to me why this 6P is so damn good. I have several other lights like a Mag 5D, Mag 2C, a Fenix P3D, and some no name models.
> 
> Some of them throw more light or have greater reach but none of them is overall so good as my P6!
> 
> Is it its size, is it the bulb, the looks, the feel, all of them??
> 
> What are your feelings about the 6P??



I wish there was a pic of a 6P here that I could see, I think that is what my Surefire is. I'll have to go to their website. I just registered here and I hope I am able to find my way back here.


----------



## ven

6p!





:welcome:


----------



## Toohotruk

bigbob76 said:


> I wish there was a pic of a 6P here that I could see, I think that is what my Surefire is. I'll have to go to their website. I just registered here and I hope I am able to find my way back here.




You should post a pic of your light and somebody here will tell you one way or another what light you have.

:welcome:


----------



## F89

The 6P is just pure awesome.
I have three custom ano and bored ones with various drop ins.
A must have I reckon.
I'm tempted to get a stock one while they are still available and available for a reasonable price.


----------



## bykfixer

Dew eeet!!! Get 2. Keep 1 nip. 

I like how some are buying their first to mod-mod-mod while others are returning with the notion of adding just one more to keep stock.


----------



## ven

Found my bulb!!! Upside down and managed to find it in one of my draws so incan night!







Does not look this tidy to the eye(ringy), looks perfect on the pic but it is actually oval shaped and tint is not a cold looking in real life(obviously) In fact i could see the colours on the drawing very nicely, the pic just shows it washed out..........


----------



## Inebriated

bykfixer said:


> Dew eeet!!! Get 2. Keep 1 nip.
> 
> I like how some are buying their first to mod-mod-mod while others are returning with the notion of adding just one more to keep stock.


I still haven't grabbed the M61 WLL that I intended to get when I bought the second one. 

I just like that stupid, low-output, oblong-shaped incandescent beam too much. It's like sitting next to a fire. That, and it has a very efficient beam for the output. It always surprises me just how far it can throw some of those 65 lumens.


----------



## ven

:laughing: i know what you mean, maybe it is the personality...........oblong, lots going on(artifacts) and the warmth just makes it hard to not check out/study when fired up. 

65lm, did not realise that low, impressive for sure with all things considered!


----------



## bigbob76

Talk about a long running thread. I'm new here and just on a whim I did a search to see if there were any forums about flashlights. I had no clue there were other people that were so fond of different flashlights. I have a 6P and a couple of the Surefire low end nitro models.


----------



## ven

:welcome:


----------



## Toohotruk

bigbob76 said:


> Talk about a long running thread. I'm new here and just on a whim I did a search to see if there were any forums about flashlights. I had no clue there were other people that were so fond of different flashlights. I have a 6P and a couple of the Surefire low end nitro models.



Same here many years ago...it was good to find so many people as weird as I am about flashlights, LOL!

:welcome:


----------



## bykfixer

Toohotruk said:


> Same here many years ago...it was good to find so many people as weird as I am about flashlights, LOL!
> 
> :welcome:



We're the normal ones.
The rest of the world lives in darkness lit by cel phones.


----------



## peter yetman

Toohotruk said:


> Same here many years ago...it was good to find so many people as weird as I am about flashlights, LOL!
> 
> :welcome:




It's great relief for me too.
P


----------



## vadimax

Toohotruk said:


> Same here many years ago...it was good to find so many people as weird as I am about flashlights, LOL!
> 
> :welcome:



Are there "anonymous flashaholics" anywhere? I need help!


----------



## Mitchsnider

Bought mine back in the late 80's and carried on my duty belt (LEO) for nearly 3 decades. I also mounted one to my duty Remington 870 pump 12 gauge shotty (took a little dremel work but back then was the best/only option) and even one on my SWAT handgun the Sig Sauer P220 .45 back before there were rails on handguns and at least Sure Fire was making a take down lever conversion. Just in the last few years I upgraded them all with the drop in LED conversion bulb and still carried until I retired a few months ago.

Cheers,
Mitch


----------



## bykfixer

Cheers to ya Mitch.

Great post. Congrats on your retirement and thanks for helping keep your community a little safer.


----------



## Toohotruk

Mitchsnider said:


> Bought mine back in the late 80's and carried on my duty belt (LEO) for nearly 3 decades. I also mounted one to my duty Remington 870 pump 12 gauge shotty (took a little dremel work but back then was the best/only option) and even one on my SWAT handgun the Sig Sauer P220 .45 back before there were rails on handguns and at least Sure Fire was making a take down lever conversion. Just in the last few years I upgraded them all with the drop in LED conversion bulb and still carried until I retired a few months ago.
> 
> Cheers,
> Mitch



I'd love to see pics of your well used 6P. 

Maybe even post them HERE.

Edit: Congrats on your retirement!!! 

Must be nice! :thumbsup:


----------



## tbreed725

I had a 6P back in the day loved that light would love to get another one did what it was supposed to and did it well tough as nails for me .


----------



## ven

:welcome:

Here for a bargain!
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?418307-Surefire-6P-flashlights-brand-new-34-Parts


----------



## bigbob76

bykfixer said:


> We're the normal ones.
> The rest of the world lives in darkness lit by cel phones.



I love it, I found a place where I fit in! Speaking of cell phone flashlight apps I was reading recently that most of them are written by Russian hackers and have some nasty little malware surprises hidden in them.


----------



## bykfixer

A bit off topic furthering the previous post:

A recent upgrade of my android os allows users to control apps way more.
It was surprising to find out how many calculators, etc included were tied to my phone, emails, contacts and other things a calculator shouldn't need. 
I don't install apps that need permissions beyond what they need to have.
Why does a camera want access to my emails? 

Anyway, the 6P changed the game and still matters 25+ years later.


----------



## peter yetman

You are actually kind of on topic, as the 6P is the complete antithesis to the latest stuff that's becoming more and more processor dependant. Don't get me started on touch screen displays that show the output level. It's a light - you can see how bright it is!
Dumped my Andriod and went back to a phone that mostly does phone calls.
P


----------



## ven

6p is my daily/eveningly! around house light with the nichia triple(the incan was not the best for close up use and prefer floody)


----------



## bykfixer

peter yetman said:


> You are actually kind of on topic, as the 6P is the complete antithesis to the latest stuff that's becoming more and more processor dependant. Don't get me started on touch screen displays that show the output level. It's a light - you can see how bright it is!
> Dumped my Andriod and went back to a phone that mostly does phone calls.
> P



Hmmm, hadn't considered the antithesis thing.
Long live the flip phone!

Speaking antithesis, one thing I like about the 6P is there aren't a constant parade of threads about ways to gripe about tint color, switch location, UI, or any number of LED threads created with the sole intention of griping... followed up by the crowd of gripers. 

Guess that's why I like this subforum in general. 
Here the crowd largely shares the stoke of the electric candle; faults and all.


----------



## ven

One thing I like mr fixer about the 6p(and other SF's) is that twisty UI. It just works.....not only that, it's a change from forever clicking tail caps or side buttons .

I was pleasantly surprised when using the Incan, do love the tint and for a bulb its miles ahead of previous Incan lights I have used of past. Only issue I had for around house uses was how bright/far throwing it is , with limited spill. It will get use, just not as much as I had liked, but Halloween or some walks.......the bulb is INcan


----------



## Inebriated

ven said:


> One thing I like mr fixer about the 6p(and other SF's) is that twisty UI. It just works.....not only that, it's a change from forever clicking tail caps or side buttons .
> 
> I was pleasantly surprised when using the Incan, do love the tint and for a bulb its miles ahead of previous Incan lights I have used of past. Only issue I had for around house uses was how bright/far throwing it is , with limited spill. It will get use, just not as much as I had liked, but Halloween or some walks.......the bulb is INcan


The twisty is the biggest selling point to me. It's one of the only ones I've used that's actually easy to do with one hand. They got the knurling and whatever machining process they use perfect, because it's slicker than glass.

Surefire is reportedly announcing new stuff at the NRA meeting on the 20th, so if they do, I really, _really_ hope to see something with a twisty (and/or progressive) tailcap. Probably won't, but I do hope.


----------



## bykfixer

It's regrettable that SureFire has eliminated the twisty from their lineup...
It's probably like cars with front corner windows that turned inwards to let in breeze, as in not coming back. 

Get 'em while you still can.


----------



## newbie66

Loving both my 6p original and defender(got an empty used defender head to replace the kx4 head). One with a twisty and the other a clicky tailcap.


----------



## Toohotruk

Yeah, I like the twisty tail too. It becomes second nature after awhile, plus it about as reliable a switch as you'll ever find, even more so than lights with a twisty head IMO.


----------



## etc

bykfixer said:


> It's regrettable that SureFire has eliminated the twisty from their lineup...
> It's probably like cars with front corner windows that turned inwards to let in breeze, as in not coming back.
> 
> Get 'em while you still can.



what? that's wild. I had no idea.

I have used the Surefire G2X clicki in the twisty mode. Admittedly, it's a lot less smooth than 6P. Being polymer and not really designed to twist, but yes it works. You can click it on and then twist on / off. Did it for 6 months.


----------



## etc

I am going to assume that when people refer to 6P, they probably mean 6P form factor and the design of the device. the stock bulb that came with it is terrible. It shined maybe in the 1980's and was obsolete 15 years ago before the LED revolution even began. Those who don't care for LED still upgrade the stock bulb to something better.

I tried EDCing both 3P and 9P, 6P feels better than either. 3P is too small to hold comfortably. 9P falls out of pockets at times.


----------



## StorminMatt

bykfixer said:


> Speaking antithesis, one thing I like about the 6P is there aren't a constant parade of threads about ways to gripe about tint color, switch location, UI, or any number of LED threads created with the sole intention of griping... followed up by the crowd of gripers.
> 
> Guess that's why I like this subforum in general.
> Here the crowd largely shares the stoke of the electric candle; faults and all.



I think that a big part of the reason why you don't hear much griping about the 6P is because of the many options available for this light. Buy a Zebralight (for instance), and you are stuck with whatever emitter, switch, battery configuration, or other quality the light has. But with the 6P, pretty much anything about the light that someone might find objectionable can be changed.


----------



## bykfixer

StorminMatt said:


> I think that a big part of the reason why you don't hear much griping about the 6P is because of the many options available for this light. Buy a Zebralight (for instance), and you are stuck with whatever emitter, switch, battery configuration, or other quality the light has. But with the 6P, pretty much anything about the light that someone might find objectionable can be changed.



Point just made. 

Zebra light makes fine products. But...it's a product made to be as is.
Incans in general are end user serviceable where ones own imagination, a few tools and some good luck in web searches allow one to tailor a light the way they want it. 

Knowing a filament casts shadows the idea is to tweak said light to the best beam possible. And once that has been found the user lights up darkness with a big ole satisfaction grin.
Buying some product made overseas for some whatever they slap together thinking about sales numbers and profit....what fun is that? 

Opens the door wide for complaining. The incan section is more about "look at what I did" with others popping in to say "wow" or to share some know how to help op tweak a bit more 'wow' from their ideas.


----------



## DK Demand Lab

dutchguy2 said:


> Please can somone explain to me why this 6P is so damn good. I have several other lights like a Mag 5D, Mag 2C, a Fenix P3D, and some no name models.
> 
> Some of them throw more light or have greater reach but none of them is overall so good as my P6!
> 
> Is it its size, is it the bulb, the looks, the feel, all of them??
> 
> What are your feelings about the 6P??




I just picked up my SF 6P Original last month.

If I compare this to vehicles, I can kinda imagine how it would feel like to own a mint conditioned 1960s Ford Mustang or a Toyota '86 the "Hachiroku."


The part I liked the most about the SF 6P is the design. Very simple but not lacking at all.


----------



## bykfixer

Well put.

Welcome to the site btw.


----------



## DK Demand Lab

bykfixer said:


> Well put.
> 
> Welcome to the site btw.



Thank you~~


----------



## Timothybil

The 6P, like its cheaper cousin the G2, hits all three points - price, performance, and quality. They were the first really high performance lights that broke the high price barrier while still providing performance and quality. I am sure that for many of the members here, the 6P and/or G2 was their first 'real' flashlight. I know it was mine. And don't forget that the whole P60/D26 drop-in market developed around these two lights as well.


----------



## DK Demand Lab

I am not if this will be 100% on point with the thread topic,

but can anyone recommend me a holster for a 6P?
I am trying to gift 6P+holster to my friends.
Poly or leather, it doesn't matter.

I guess 6Ps look good in holsters as well.


----------



## scout24

DK- Ripoffs makes high quality, low cost nylon gear, I've seen their model 30, and model 63 mentioned for the 6P.


----------



## Timothybil

Mountain Electronics also has a very nice holster. It is the one with the several star rating on their holster page. Very good price too. I have three, for my 6P, G2, and Seraph 6.


----------



## DK Demand Lab

Thank you for great recommendations!!!


----------



## Swedpat

I highly recommend Solarforce holsters. Very high quality and work for many 18650/2CR123 lights including 6P.


----------



## sgt253

Just picked up two of the recommended Mtn. Electronics holsters. Nice thin profile, fit as expected. Very happy for the price. Good luck.


----------



## DK Demand Lab

I also picked up three of the ME holsters. These have Jetbeam label. Nice and useful. 
Thank you again for the recommendation(s).


----------



## ven

I wondered about these holsters, never actually went searching as I have a good few jetbeam holsters that work great.........seems they might be the same!


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi does anyone know the exact sizes of the O rings please - as I'm considering swapping them over to the light royal blue flourosilicone ones if I or someone can and find a good source.
cheers.


----------



## Danielsan

It was good because it used 2xCR123 and that means 6V which equals brightness. Mag Lite had to use 4 D-Cells for example. Now it would be considered dimm with all those LED lights around and the runtime is poor. It was also good because it was one of the first small and tough aluminium cigar shaped lights, of course the chinese companies flooded the market later with similar products using LED. The title should be why the surefire 6P was so good in my mind because it is not good compared to todays standards


----------



## ZMZ67

Danielsan said:


> It was good because it used 2xCR123 and that means 6V which equals brightness. Mag Lite had to use 4 D-Cells for example. Now it would be considered dimm with all those LED lights around and the runtime is poor. It was also good because it was one of the first small and tough aluminium cigar shaped lights, of course the chinese companies flooded the market later with similar products using LED. The title should be why the surefire 6P was so good in my mind because it is not good compared to todays standards



I respectfully disagree. I suppose you really need to use a modern drop-in to bring the light up to date but the 6P still has attributes that many lights made for "todays standards" do not possess.Honestly even with the original lamp the 6P is still more reliable than many LED lights and the lamp can quickly be replaced if it does fail.


----------



## SpyderHS08

I've got an old 6P incan, Burns through the primaries though! I need an led drop in, what are some cheap options?? Need to put this light back into rotation


----------



## scs

SpyderHS08 said:


> I've got an old 6P incan, Burns through the primaries though! I need an led drop in, what are some cheap options?? Need to put this light back into rotation



I've read good things about Sportac dropins.
Mtnelectronics also has some very affordable options.
Malkoff has a couple on sale; inexpensive relative to his pricier ones.
pflexpro has a couple cheaper ones as well
There's also customlites.
Mtnelectronics's are the cheapest by far among them though.
Watch your voltages.


----------



## ven

So many choices , help us by narrowing it down . Biased for throw or flood and ideal kind of tint. 
Sportacs offer excellent value, my fav is the nichia triple 2 mode(single mode for me is too high, the 20% low mode works out around 160 OTF lunens of hi cri flood). 

I have eave a 4 mode nichia triple in my 6p (Sportac is in work).




Its pretty much my go to home light and bed side light.


----------



## DRoc

How about showing us some incan lamps in those drop ins in honor of being in the incan section...


----------



## ven

DRoc said:


> How about showing us some incan lamps in those drop ins in honor of being in the incan section...


----------



## DRoc

AWESOME!!!!




ven said:


>


----------



## dhunley1

My first 6P along with a Malkoff M61N drop-in are on their way to me now. Pretty stoked!


----------



## Repsol600rr

You wont regret that combo. My only Malkoff (so far) is the M61N. I run it on keeppower 16650's in my 6p or c2. Absolutely love it. But I'm currently doing incan week so its in my bulbs drawer and my c2 and 6p both have incans in them again. The p60 really is a wonderful thing.


----------



## dhunley1

I was planning on running it on KeepPower 16650 cells, so that's good to hear. Have you used two CR123's with that set up? Just curious about run time comparisons between the two different batteries.


----------



## Repsol600rr

Ive only run it on the 16650s so I cant help you there. But run time on the 16650s is quite good. I haven't actually tested it but it lasts longer than I've ever needed it to.


----------



## dhunley1

No worries. I was planning on running it on 16650s anyway, but the Malkoff site only mentions run times for 2 CR123 batteries, so I thought I'd ask.


----------



## ven

I you get the standard Sanyo 2500mah they are 4.35v fully charged and IMO do make a difference ! The KeepPower ones iirc are charged to 4.2v which guessing is 80-85% charged give/ take. Will need along lines of a vp2 or sp1 charger for the 3.8v(4.35v termination voltage) setting . 

Genes neutral is a very nice 4000k


----------



## dhunley1

All I have currently are the KeepPower 16650s, but I'll look into others in the future. Genes neutral is definitely nice! I picked up his MDC 16650 neutral, recently and I am quite fond of that tint.


----------



## ven

Isn't it! really nice..............., looks a great light does the MDC and that would be the fuel type i would go for , for the run time advantages.


----------



## etc

It's rather ironic posting LED modifications in the incan sub-section. 

Though I completely agree with the subject matter and the whole point. P6 shines when modded with latest-greatest.


----------



## bykfixer

That is part of the charm of the fabled "6", later called "6P".
Introduced in about 1989, still relevant today in 016. 

If those old round "6" lights weren't commanding over $100 we'd probably be discussing how to 'anti-roll' them as well as which LED to use...


----------



## irongate

ven said:


> I wondered about these holsters, never actually went searching as I have a good few jetbeam holsters that work great.........seems they might be the same!



Do you the model number on that Jetbeam?
Thanks


----------



## ven

Let me look for an ebay item number....................goes away to find it :laughing:

Along lines of #201146247916 

Now as they dont always mention the size (medium etc) i check the lights out it is meant for, the rrt2 which is an 18650 which = the right one.


----------



## ven

I also have one of these, also good enough, evil bay again!
#311591563937


----------



## ven

The jetbeam is the one on the right







Only pic of the xtar is the one centre up top




Both fit 18650 light sizes


----------



## irongate

ven said:


> The jetbeam is the one on the right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only pic of the xtar is the one centre up top
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Both fit 18650 light sizes



Wow Thank You Sir.


----------



## ven

welcome


----------



## irongate

ven said:


> welcome



Just another way to spend hard earned money, never ends here! On order LOL


----------



## ven

Hey if you need any help just shout, apparently i am good at spending others hard earned....................well the latter is subjective as i dont think they work that hard:laughing:


----------



## neutralwhite

Hi I have a new oveready surefire 6p and I’ve attached a lanyard attachment metal ring to the light.
Now it’s moving around pretty freely, and there seems space for an O ring.
This will stop the attachment rotating all over the place.
It’s a size 18 o ring I think.

Is that ok to put an O ring there ?.
Or leave it to rotate around ?.
Thanks.


----------



## bykfixer

neutralwhite said:


> Hi I have a new oveready surefire 6p and I’ve attached a lanyard attachment metal ring to the light.
> Now it’s moving around pretty freely, and there seems space for an O ring.
> This will stop the attachment rotating all over the place.
> It’s a size 18 o ring I think.
> 
> Is that ok to put an O ring there ?.
> Or leave it to rotate around ?.
> Thanks.



Your choice really. The o-ring won't hurt anything.
Yet you may find the 'ring' being able to freely rotate is preferable to stuck in one place.


----------



## scout24

If you have a stock Surefire tailcap, the o-ring may make it harder to twist the light for constant on. With a clicky, you can just tighten as hard as needed to make contact. I know the rings were designed to move around, but I'm with Neutralwhite, I like them in one place.


----------



## ven

I always remove the ring but I thought the design was around it being able to rotate ,as that would make sense to me. That way it saves getting tangled up and easier to handle without twisting around the body.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

I already have a 6P with Malkoff drop-in which is awesome. But since there was a good deal I now have a incan 6P on it's way to me, which i'll probably leave incan just for it's cool factor. But getting 60 minutes out of 2 cr123's does not sound appealing. Can I use a 3.7 volt 16650 in a unbored incan 6P or is that a no go? Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## peter yetman

It'll work but it will be underpowered. The P60 incan drop in is designed for 6 volts so 3.7 volts will make it look like you batteries are flat.
P


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Ahhh oke thanks for the answer! I guess 2x 16340 would blow out the bulb? Any rechargeable option? I know there are 3V 16340, I guess that would work...


----------



## ven

i was quite surprised on a 16650 4.35v cell, granted not as bright as 2x 3v cells(presume as not tested)






No real use to me as too throwy for my intended 6p uses, still nice tint and pretty nice beam profile!


----------



## Repsol600rr

There's the lumens factory 4 series bulbs designed to run on 3.7 volts so the 16650 would work with those. Would probably be better than trying ot use 3 volt 16340s with the p60.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

ven said:


> i was quite surprised on a 16650 4.35v cell, granted not as bright as 2x 3v cells(presume as not tested)
> 
> 
> No real use to me as too throwy for my intended 6p uses, still nice tint and pretty nice beam profile!



That looks pretty good, i'll test the difference in brightness myself when the 6P arrives (hopefully tomorrow!) Pretty impressive being incan and only 65 lumens... throws a pretty decent beam.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Repsol600rr said:


> There's the lumens factory 4 series bulbs designed to run on 3.7 volts so the 16650 would work with those. Would probably be better than trying ot use 3 volt 16340s with the p60.



Good suggestion, thanks! I'll look into that!


----------



## ven

It is a nice beam and surprised me.....but having had maglites of past.....no wonder :laughing: 

Lot of love for the 6p, it's been malk'd right now as I love the useful 4000k neutral beam. The Incan is too much for me generally due to the hot spot, nice tint for sure though. It will no doubt go incan again at some point , but that's why it's all fun, mix n match





3 mode that starts in low ,just gets on with my requirements far better . Next time I take some lights out, will take it as an Incan ! ​ I promise mr fixer


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Yeah, my first light was a Maglite 4D. I loved it back then, but after I got in touch with Fenix lights (Fenix TK10 was my first good light) I noticed how bad the beam actually was and how dim it was.
Now I just want a cool incan in my collection. I already have a bored 6P running on a 18650 with a malkoff drop-in (M61N I believe, L-M-H) which I really like. Only thing I switched was the switch (see what I did there....  ), I put the tailcap of a surefire 6PX Pro on the 6P and visa versa. Just worked a bit nicer with the mode switching.

That head on your 6P looks so cool.


----------



## fivemega

Me+Light=Addiction said:


> I guess 2x 16340 would blow out the bulb? Any rechargeable option? I know there are 3V 16340, I guess that would work...


*Pair of 16340 (even 3 volt version) will flash genuine P60 bulb.
You can safely use pair of 16340 (3.7 volt version) with P90
Also IMR 18650 (in bored out 6P) with P61 worth to try.*


----------



## nfetterly

fivemega said:


> *Pair of 16340 (even 3 volt version) will flash genuine P60 bulb.
> You can safely use pair of 16340 (3.7 volt version) with P90
> Also IMR 18650 (in bored out 6P) with P61 worth to try.*



Two IMR 16340 / 18350s with a P91 absolutely rocks. Even better with an AW soft start 3 level switch in the tail. I've got a bored 6P setup this way.


----------



## Me+Light=Addiction

Cool, thanks for all the suggestions will look into them all


----------



## The Whispering Gallery

Bulb life would also be significantly longer on a single Li-ion rechargeable, right? According to a table I found, the bulb should last 100s to 1000s of hours between 4 and 3 V, assuming the life at 6V is 25 hours. 

I too just got a 6P and want to keep it incandescent with minimal running cost, so I'll be using some kind of rechargeable battery. Unfortunately, it seems like all of the good incan P60 modules, regardless of voltage, are fairly expensive, and I also wonder how long they will be widely available. I'm assuming you have to replace the entire reflector assembly when the bulb burns out, right?


----------



## Dave D

I built my own drop-in for a Z2 Combat light using the following parts.

Empty Aluminium Smooth Drop-in module for Cree XM-L from Fasttech - $2.12

8* AMC7135 4-Group 2~5 Modes LED Flashlight Driver Circuit (Nanjg 105c) from Fasttech - $2.92 (3-4.5v so ideal for a 18650/16650)

Cree XM-L U2 on Copper PCB (Bought from LED-Tech in Germany) which cost about - $12 (Cheaper available form FT for around $3.68)

For a total cost of less than $18 I am very impressed, I have a it set as a three mode, L-M-H and have a max output of 1040 lumens.


If I was doing it again I'd buy the 7135*8 from Mountain Electronics with the guppydrv firmware to give 22 modes and turbo timer ($5.25).

As long as you can solder with care anyone can do it, you would also need some Silicone Heatsink Plaster or similar to fix the LED PCB into the drop-in.


----------



## fivemega

The Whispering Gallery said:


> According to a table I found, the bulb should last 100s to 1000s of hours between 4 and 3 V, assuming the life at 6V is 25 hours.



*According to this thread, voltage of each lithium primary 123 will drop to 2.5 volt under 1.2 Amp (P60) and 2.2 volt under 2.4 Amp (P61), So P60 is in fact 5 volt bulb and P61 is in fact 4.4 volt bulb while they both called NOMINALLY 6 volt.
Since the good fully recharged **IMR 18650 can hold the voltage at about 4.0 volt, a P61 will run with slightly less voltage that designed and yes, it's life will be longer.**
You can also find out current draw of several bulbs here.*


----------



## DRoc

Pulling out my bored 6P with black M2 head which will take any 3400 i've used. Going to run a P61 in it and see how it goes...ive got lots of them, I can spare one.


----------



## DRoc

DRoc said:


> Pulling out my bored 6P with black M2 head which will take any 3400 i've used. Going to run a P61 in it and see how it goes...ive got lots of them, I can spare one.



Works very well...I highly recommend....


----------



## Repsol600rr

Good to know. May come in handy.


----------



## fivemega

DRoc said:


> Pulling out my bored 6P with black M2 head which will take any 3400 i've used. Going to run a P61 in it and see how it goes...ive got lots of them, I can spare one.





DRoc said:


> Works very well...I highly recommend....



:twothumbs


----------



## DRoc

Yep. Definitely not as bright as two fresh primaries, but gives about the same as a P60 on two fresh 123's. For a rechargeable option, I'm pretty happy. Still has that nice white light the P61 is known for. I hope I get longer life out of it due to the lower voltage.


----------



## fivemega

DRoc said:


> Yep. Definitely not as bright as two fresh primaries, but gives about the same as a P60 on two fresh 123's. For a rechargeable option, I'm pretty happy. Still has that nice white light the P61 is known for. I hope I get longer life out of it due to the lower voltage.



*Bulb will definitely get longer life but for longer run time, this host will be another option.*


----------



## DK Demand Lab

I don't know if it's just a coincident between this thread being lively recently and this but the SF P6 incand. price in general went up recently lol Used to be around $35 shipped but now it's around $40 shipped. Not a bank of a difference but I thought it was interesting.


----------



## Timothybil

I don't remember if it was the beginning of this thread or a separate one, but about a year ago or so Surefire officially discontinued the 6P and G2 incandescent lights. That meant that everyone who thought they might want one down the road rushed to snap up what was available. For a while, the average price was around $50, so they have come back down some.


----------



## bykfixer

When I first sought after a 6P in summer 015 they ran $55+. Many places had them for $65 and up....to $98!
They came with batteries from 014 and 015 (expired 024 & 25)

About fall it was said here that the 6P and G2 were gone from the website (along with other incans) so somebody confirmed that SureFire had indeed stopped producing incan flashlights as well as other changes to the business.

Late fall-ish somebody released a million billion 6P's. The thinking was a big batch from a military surplus train car full. Really.

At that time some were finding them as low as $22. All had 09 batteries (expire 019). I bought 12 for between $25 & $28. All were from 2009. By groundhog day 016 they were gone and remaining sellers were asking $30-35. Still not bad. If they are indeed newer, say 014 or 15 then $40 is way less than they used to be. If they are from the 09 batch, still not bad but had once been almost half of that.


----------



## irongate

Picked one up for $30 just last month, batteries good till 19. Dropped in a M61 very pleased with the output.


----------



## Offgridled

ven said:


> i was quite surprised on a 16650 4.35v cell, granted not as bright as 2x 3v cells(presume as not tested)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No real use to me as too throwy for my intended 6p uses, still nice tint and pretty nice beam profile!



Let me know if you want to let it go to a nice guy in California that likes throw . Lol. Howdy ven. How are you buddy?


----------



## ven

I am not bad cheers, hope all well your side . Not sure where I have stashed some Incan bulbs tbh, will have to dig them out .


----------



## JacquesDP

Man, I still miss mine and wish I never sold it! 

Had a McClicky with GITD soft boot and KX4 head. Dependable, rugged and always ready to go!


----------



## DRoc

I bought a steaming pant load of Surefire P60 lamps, about three years ago. If primaries become scarce, I will just run them underdriven on rechargeable options. 
I think I counted one time, and the number I came up with was about 150...Took about ten years to accumulate. About 40 P61's also. About the same P90/91's. I'm a hoarder.


----------



## scout24

Adequately prepared for eventualities is not hoarding...


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> Adequately prepared for eventualities is not hoarding...



That dude is *very* prepared.

I think I can relate somewhat.


----------



## scout24

Some Eneloops, a small solar setup, and a charger, you're good to go for a LONG time, Mr. Fixer... Damn.


----------



## DRoc

What kind of lamps are those?




bykfixer said:


> That dude is *very* prepared.
> 
> I think I can relate somewhat.


----------



## bykfixer

DRoc said:


> What kind of lamps are those?



PR-3's and 7's. It's why I said "relate somewhat". 

I only have about 7 or 8 extra P60's though...unless you count the half dozen nip 6p's...
But I have about 250 PR-2's, a couple hundred PR-4's, dozens of bi-pins for AA lights, a dozen 7cell Mag bulbs, heaven knows how many 3, 4 and 5 cell bulbs, Streamlight bi-pins for 6 and 9 volt lights, a bunch of Pelican bulbs (w/ more on the way) and all kinds of Brinkmann bulbs. 
I have 10 packs of E10 bulbs galore as well. Many going back to the 1940's...

Hoarding? Nah. I wanna make sure my grandkids have enough.


----------



## DRoc

That's awesome. My collection is confined mostly to surefire, but I kinda missed the times of all the alkaline incan setups which are now almost impossible and expensive for me to buy. I got my surefires a few years before they went obsolete by the company. I picked up a few mag incans lately though. I only have a few Malkoff flashlights because there is just no need to buy doubles of most as they are well supported and very robust.
I have many, many, 6P's....


----------



## bykfixer

DRoc said:


> That's awesome. My collection is confined mostly to surefire, but I kinda missed the times of all the alkaline incan setups which are now almost impossible and expensive for me to buy. I got my surefires a few years before they went obsolete by the company. I picked up a few mag incans lately though. I only have a few Malkoff flashlights because there is just no need to buy doubles of most as they are well supported and very robust.
> I have many, many, 6P's....



6P was/is a great flashlight droc.

So good in fact there oughta be a thread about how good it is....


----------



## Toohotruk

bykfixer said:


> 6P was/is a great flashlight droc.
> 
> So good in fact there oughta be a thread about how good it is....


Heeeyyy...that's a great idea!


----------



## dhunley1

This place is a bad influence... Just ordered 2 more 6Ps, bringing me up to 4 total, now.


----------



## bykfixer

dhunley1 said:


> This place is a bad influence... Just ordered 2 more 6Ps, bringing me up to 4 total, now.



Good start.


----------



## Father Azmodius

fivemega said:


> *Bulb will definitely get longer life but for longer run time, this host will be another option.*



I was the one who bought it. It's going to be the power outage house light. I have some keeppower 5200mah 26650s, but with 2 3400mah 18650s I'll probably get a year on a moonlight mode


----------



## dhunley1

bykfixer said:


> Good start.



Lol. Yep. Definitely going to end up with a few more, I'm sure. I'd like to have a few with some different drop-in and to keep a few NIB.


----------



## bykfixer

dhunley1 said:


> Lol. Yep. Definitely going to end up with a few more, I'm sure. I'd like to have a few with some different drop-in and to keep a few NIB.



I was up to 15 of the 6P at one point.
Down to 4 users (Malkoff WLL, WL, NL and a stock one) and kept 4 NIP. The other 7 were given away to youngsters. 
The G2 is fun too. I have 3 users (Malkoff WL and NL with a gen 1 G2 L) and (iirc) 2 yellow nip.... and a black one? 

I really like the silent rotate to on/off tailcap on them.


----------



## dhunley1

bykfixer said:


> I really like the silent rotate to on/off tailcap on them.



I wasn't sure how much I would like the tailcap, but it's pretty awesome. I was worried that twisting it for constant on would be difficult with one hand, but that's definitely not the case. I like it a lot.


----------



## ven

I like the simple twisty UI too, even if you get bored or decide you want to change it, its literally a 3m job to swap in a clicky switch. I did one the other night and surprised how easy/quick to do.


----------



## Danielsan

ZMZ67 said:


> I respectfully disagree. I suppose you really need to use a modern drop-in to bring the light up to date but the 6P still has attributes that many lights made for "todays standards" do not possess.Honestly even with the original lamp the 6P is still more reliable than many LED lights and the lamp can quickly be replaced if it does fail.


Yes i was refering to the original surefire 6P, the modern surefires are of course up to date and much better, for example the little surefire AAA light produces 300 Lumen from an eneloop which is really good, most other AAA light can do that with 10440 only. The old Surefire 6P was ahead of its time because the combination of small size, aluminium and the voltage of CR123.


----------



## Cunha

Today the p60 surefire are great because you can replace the guts and keep your host. It's still a good platform. For that size light,i dig.


----------



## Dave D

Just won an auction for an original round bodied 6P, not in perfect condition but looking forward to upgrading it without modifying it, so the mod's are reversible.

It's coming in it's original box.


----------



## Fuchshp

I was bidding too. So you are the one who won it. Congratulation!


----------



## Dave D

Fuchshp said:


> I was bidding too. So you are the one who won it. Congratulation!



Thanks, I was surprised that there wasn't more interest in it. Do they ever come up in perfect condition?


----------



## Timothybil

Dave D said:


> Thanks, I was surprised that there wasn't more interest in it. Do they ever come up in perfect condition?


I don't know about round bodied ones, but there are always a few MIB (Mint in Box) 6Ps and G2s available on ebay. My 6P was one such, and for a very reasonable price.


----------



## Dave D

Timothybil said:


> I don't know about round bodied ones, but there are always a few MIB (Mint in Box) 6Ps and G2s available on ebay. My 6P was one such, and for a very reasonable price.



I've seen the last of the 6P incans being sold on the Jungle for $38 inc shipping, which seems a good price to me.


----------



## ven

Dave D said:


> I've seen the last of the 6P incans being sold on the Jungle for $38 inc shipping, which seems a good price to me.




I got my z2, £55 of the evil bay(has a nice z3 and almost bit! but its the fuel side............pita really unbored. And now another bored 6p off vinh and a quad nichia 219C mule Dave, from 4 to 6 SF's and buzzing.............


----------



## Dave D

ven said:


> I got my z2, £55 of the evil bay(has a nice z3 and almost bit! but its the fuel side............pita really unbored. And now another bored 6p off vinh and a quad nichia 219C mule Dave, from 4 to 6 SF's and buzzing.............



:thumbsup:


----------



## ven

Dave D said:


> :thumbsup:




 

z2 shipped yesterday, looks like slow shipping so maybe mid next week.................looking forward to it, now to decide what to go in..............or leave incan.


----------



## peter yetman

Just found it in the completed listings.
I think you got a bargain.
P


----------



## ven

Very tempted for this P, as it will bounce and a great host for lower output beater uses

#302082847137


----------



## peter yetman

I've got a couple of the original non lockout G2s. They do bounce and good for the teeth too. I've kept one of them incan and still enjoy the beam. One day I'll get a warm malkoff and compare them.
P


----------



## bykfixer

ven said:


> Very tempted for this P, as it will bounce and a great host for lower output beater uses
> 
> #302082847137



How many 6p's you up to now? Have you considered a Malkoff WLL for the retro appeal but huge runtime? 

Side by side wall hunting takes away from the WLL appeal imo, (pretty obviously not an incan) but when out and about in real world use... it's pretty dang convincing.

Pete you popped in while I was typing. Yeah you gotta try the WL or LL... if you like that P60 tint that is.


----------



## ven

Only 2 when my 6p comes from vinh.............the other is dressed up in a cryos suit to embrace an m361n(complete overkill but a man has to use his cryos!)

The latest will have a quad mule inside, however what ends up where is anyone's guess and a reason i love the format so much.......

Cant wait for the z2, although i kind of prefer the 6p, the z2 is also a classic and have been eyeing one up for a while. Maybe tempted for a warm malk one day, kind of a winter tint for me but i am mule mad right now. The pocket light bulb:naughty:

Nope, no flies on you, i will for ever be in the shadow of you mr fixer when it comes to collecting 

Maybe by next weekend i will be up 2 SF's, although not my style, pics will possibly follow


----------



## peter yetman

bykfixer said:


> Pete you popped in while I was typing. Yeah you gotta try the WL or LL... if you like that P60 tint that is.


Thanks, I was going to PM and ask what you thought. That'll be my next decision.
P


----------



## defbear

I bought a new 6p in the blister pack. The batteries are dated 2009. I assume the light sat for the last 7 years. It functions fine. The batteries are at 3 volt. Question. The light is quite Orange. Almost like a Nichia led. I know tint and cri are two different things. Are they all this orange? A new set of batteries does not change things.


----------



## bykfixer

It is an incandecent bulb.


----------



## defbear

Yes, I did buy one just to have an old-school 6p with an incandescent bulb. Sounds like my 'tint' is normal. Thank you.


----------



## Dave D

I've just received my round body Surefire 6P, it is as described by the seller in a decent used condition. I was surprised though that it has 'DEUTSCLAND' on the tailcap. 





[/URL][/IMG]



[/URL][/IMG]

Did Surefire do similar for any other markets?


----------



## ven

Very nice dave, although it looks a roller.........i think i prefer it or at least as much as the newer 6p


----------



## Dave D

ven said:


> Very nice dave, although it looks a roller.........i think i prefer it or at least as much as the newer 6p



I bought it for historical value as much as anything, I may drop a P60L in it with a 16650 or just leave it as my only incan so I can compare all the newer stuff to the original!


----------



## ven

I am going to give it another go(incan) , every time i try its just a bit too throwy for my daily type uses and it is certainly a more white than orange with this bulb




Not much spill and all reach




I like it! but i am a more floody type , light the immediate area up for work or around house/edc uses. Out and about i like to mix it up a little and throwers can come into their own then. I think though if i was lucky enough to have the round body 6p, incan would feel more right in it.


----------



## bykfixer

Dave D said:


> I bought it for historical value as much as anything, I may drop a P60L in it with a 16650 or just leave it as my only incan so I can compare all the newer stuff to the original!



Putting a P60L in it would be cool as a polar bears toenails for historical value as they both are similar in brightness. 
The difference in tint however is striking. 
There are folks all over the planet who still have bitter-beer-face after see-ing the P60L beam. 

The point of the P60 was to reach out and touch things after dark that had never been achieved with such a small light. Pocket sized bad guy blinder. But you gotta remember, they were both invented back when fellows all wore really short shorts. 

And Dave, please add your light to the SureFire history thread.


----------



## Dave D

bykfixer said:


> And Dave, please add your light to the SureFire history thread.



Done. :twothumbs


----------



## vicv

ven said:


> It is a nice beam and surprised me.....but having had maglites of past.....no wonder :laughing:
> 
> Lot of love for the 6p, it's been malk'd right now as I love the useful 4000k neutral beam. The Incan is too much for me generally due to the hot spot, nice tint for sure though. It will no doubt go incan again at some point , but that's why it's all fun, mix n match
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3 mode that starts in low ,just gets on with my requirements far better . Next time I take some lights out, will take it as an Incan ! ​ I promise mr fixer



What head is that Ven?


----------



## ven

It's a cryos bezel, oveready and cryos illumination should have them. 2 sizes, z44 as in pic and the z32 which is the m2 size(little larger).

Larger cryos


----------



## sween1911

I myself scored an original round body 6P, Lexan lens, badged tailcap model. I've fooled with Nailbenders and Malkoffs and 17670's and for some reason, it's only perfect with 2 CR123's and that glorious P60. I have lights that are brighter, multi-modes, last longer, but that original recipe does what it does so well and it was one of, if not the first of its kind to put those attributes together in such a compact, capable, package.


----------



## bykfixer

sween1911 said:


> I myself scored an original round body 6P, Lexan lens, badged tailcap model. I've fooled with Nailbenders and Malkoffs and 17670's and for some reason, it's only perfect with 2 CR123's and that glorious P60. I have lights that are brighter, multi-modes, last longer, but that original recipe does what it does so well and it was one of, if not the first of its kind to put those attributes together in such a compact, capable, package.



It changed everything. I mean, it outshined much larger lights by using a 6 volt system of those little SLR camera batteries, a rugged bulb and an awesome reflector system. It was designed and built to be reliable in the worst of conditions.

At first it was seen as "cute"... a gimmick, or a fad. Between the twisty (read silent) switch and that powerful, fairly artifact free beam (compared to the norm) it didn't take long for the few who owned them to know the world of flashlights had changed. Trouble was they were so dang'd expensive. 

If you read the SureFire history thread you'll see the light was discontinued early into it's history. Then it returned with the anti-roll head design. The round version is the holy grail these days, but back then they couldn't hardly give them away. 

CPF member and famous designer PK (along with others) played a big part in getting them into the hands of soldiers. The rest is history.

The stock version is still one of my favorites.


----------



## vicv

Thank you. I thought that's what it was but I remember solar force at one time having a similar looking head and wasn't sure which one it wad


----------



## Offgridled

bykfixer said:


> It changed everything. I mean, it outshined much larger lights by using a 6 volt system of those little SLR camera batteries, a rugged bulb and an awesome reflector system. It was designed and built to be reliable in the worst of conditions.
> 
> At first it was seen as "cute"... a gimmick, or a fad. Between the twisty (read silent) switch and that powerful, fairly artifact free beam (compared to the norm) it didn't take long for the few who owned them to know the world of flashlights had changed. Trouble was they were so dang'd expensive.
> 
> If you read the SureFire history thread you'll see the light was discontinued early into it's history. Then it returned with the anti-roll head design. The round version is the holy grail these days, but back then they couldn't hardly give them away.
> 
> CPF member and famous designer PK (along with others) played a big part in getting them into the hands of soldiers. The rest is history.
> 
> The stock version is still one of my favorites.


Love this and love my 6P. I have always heard your not a true flashaholic if you don't have on. Let alone have 20 of them


----------



## bykfixer

Offgridled said:


> Love this and love my 6P. I have always heard your not a true flashaholic if you don't have on. Let alone have 20 of them



We're becoming an endangered species.
Ones who prefer the stock 6P that is...


----------



## vicv

I must admit I don't have a 6p. Or any surefire. But I do have 6 solar force l2s and a seraph sp9. Four of those have Incan lamp assemblies in them. I'm already invested in 18mm cells which is why I don't have any of the genuine article


----------



## Offgridled

bykfixer said:


> We're becoming an endangered species.
> Ones who prefer the stock 6P that is...


Yes a classic part of flashlight history.


----------



## Toohotruk

Lately I've been using one of my 6Ps and one of my G2s with an incan bulb...now that we have good 16650s, I can run them with the stock bulb without going broke. Not quite as bright as with CR123s, but a very useful beam.


----------



## DRoc

Because I had success with a 3400 18650 with a P61, I decided to give the P60 a try with the same battery. It's actually OK, some would disagree, but it's long, cool running rechargeable incan light, in one of my favorite lights. Works well when really dark. Not great, but not bad either.


----------



## Swedpat

DRoc said:


> Because I had success with a 3400 18650 with a P61, I decided to give the P60 a try with the same battery. It's actually OK, some would disagree, but it's long, cool running rechargeable incan light, in one of my favorite lights. Works well when really dark. Not great, but not bad either.



What I understand: "under powered" incandescent gives you the advantage of longer bulb lifetime but the disadvantage of lower efficiency(fewer lumen-hours per charge). Anyway the latter hardly is a problem with rechargeable cell.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Swedpat said:


> What I understand: "under powered" incandescent gives you the advantage of longer bulb lifetime but the disadvantage of lower efficiency(fewer lumen-hours per charge). Anyway the latter hardly is a problem with rechargeable cell.



Also, the Halogen cycle might be compromised.

Bill


----------



## Need a Light?

Bullzeyebill said:


> Also, the Halogen cycle might be compromised.
> 
> Bill



I thought Surefire p60s were some sort of xenon mix?

I don't have a 6p (I'd like to, and will eventually), but i have a G2 with an unprotected UR16650ZTA and a 3.7v xenon lamp, and it's just wonderful. Well over an hour of white light, and the bulb has gone through at least 10 if not 10s of hours. Even the stock p60 looks decent with a full charge.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Please see this post re Halogen mix in all Surefire bulbs.

Bill


----------



## bykfixer

Need a Light? said:


> I thought Surefire p60s were some sort of xenon mix?



Ancient PK secret... the recipe that is. 

A recent battle royal event where I compared the stock 6P with 4 other stock 6P wanna be's yielded that the 6P had such a great compromise of wide spot vs throw, while providing huge spill (for the time it was current) and proved just how awesome the complete package it was. Use for weapon grade, stealth lighting, morse code, phenominal grip, ease of carry, light weight and overall ease of use... 
It was and still is a great flashlight.


----------



## irongate

That is why stock 6P are still going for a high price on ebay, if that that can be said. All depends upon what you want to pay for a stock one.


----------



## Need a Light?

Consider me learned. I'd thought I read that different modules used different mixes and that p60 was xenon- guess I need to read more! And Bykfixer, wouldn't it be nice if we could just know? Golly especially now. I'd sooner under drive a xenon than something with halogen. 

Either way, I love my stock p60 style incans, thanks to the classic 2x123 Surefire. (I picked the G2 because I love plastic lights- drop friendly, teeth friendly, and since Incan can get hot without damage, they seem the perfect pair)


----------



## bykfixer

Need a Light? said:


> Consider me learned. I'd thought I read that different modules used different mixes and that p60 was xenon- guess I need to read more! And Bykfixer, wouldn't it be nice if we could just know? Golly especially now. I'd sooner under drive a xenon than something with halogen.
> 
> Either way, I love my stock p60 style incans, thanks to the classic 2x123 Surefire. (I picked the G2 because I love plastic lights- drop friendly, teeth friendly, and since Incan can get hot without damage, they seem the perfect pair)



The recipe will be on wiki-leaks some day... well if the American CIA ever used a 6P for totrure or spying that is.

PK probably forgot the recipe long ago.


----------



## goldenrody

My 6p is more than 10 years old. Still work good!


----------



## Toohotruk

Mine too...it may even be a little older than 10 yrs. It's showing it's age...it's never been babied and it shows, but I like it that way. It has never failed me yet, even though it's spent most of it's life as a host for various drop-ins over the years, finally settling on a Malkoff M60L bought when Gene first started selling them, so it's been in there a long time.

I'll have to take a more recent pic of it to post on here when I get time.


----------



## Blitzertac556

It's a classic light. And it was relatively affordable compared to the rest of the incan SF line back in the day. So... it was not surprisingly the most popular. It also happened to be a fantastic light.


----------



## DRoc

I figured the halogen/xenon cycle might be compromised also, but I've got at least 25 hours on my current p60 running on 18650. I haven't noticed any undue blackening, but your mileage may vary.


----------



## xdayv

lots of mods for the 'universal' 6P!


----------



## scout24

Quite literally universal. Stock and aftermarket parts are available to make it into anything from a 15 lm single 123 cell incan on up to a 3500 lm triple or quad 2x18650 flamethrower. Reflector, optic, Mule, some aspherics out there, too. Pick an emitter of your choice if you're an LED guy. Pop in a SF P91 and a couple 18350's if you're incan and want some wow factor. Don't get me going on C to M adapters. And all of it takes about as much time to swap from one to another as it does to talk about. Almost 30 years after it's introduction? I'd say it's a decent light. Still holds it's own in stock form too, no matter what anyone says. Puts out a nice beam, does what probably 90% of folks really NEED in a light. There are brighter, there are dimmer, there are more efficient. There are not more versatile. I know every so often I post something similar here, but it bears repeating every so often...


----------



## Grijon

Well said, scout24.


----------



## Toohotruk

I couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:


----------



## JohnnyBravo

I bought mine new in package for $32.95 shipped in Jan 2016. I've often thought about taking out that P60 lamp and replacing it w/ an LED drop in. I was leaning heavily towards the Malkoff M61WLL; almost bought one this past weekend. But then I thought about it. I believe that would make the light noticeably nose-heavy, and it just seems a touch blasphemous to mess w/ this light. Sigh. Now I'm leaning towards leaving it alone and just see how many years I can get out of the original P60. I think I'm on the 2nd or 3rd set of SF CR123 cells thus far. When it does finally burn out, I may consider the P61 then...

PS. Why do they call this version the "Original" when it's their 2nd version w/ the flat spots on the bezel?


----------



## the0dore3524

JohnnyBravo said:


> I bought mine new in package for $32.95 shipped in Jan 2016. I've often thought about taking out that P60 lamp and replacing it w/ an LED drop in. I was leaning heavily towards the Malkoff M61WLL; almost bought one this past weekend. But then I thought about it. I believe that would make the light noticeably nose-heavy, and it just seems a touch blasphemous to mess w/ this light. Sigh. Now I'm leaning towards leaving it alone and just see how many years I can get out of the original P60. I think I'm on the 2nd or 3rd set of SF CR123 cells thus far. When it does finally burn out, I may consider the P61 then...
> 
> PS. Why do they call this version the "Original" when it's their 2nd version w/ the flat spots on the bezel?



I guess maybe because there's a lot of other iterations of the 6P. Like how they have the 6PX Pro/Tactical.


----------



## xdayv

oh... and I think the 6P has been one of the platforms that started us all with these mods... endless and excessively. haha.


----------



## Timothybil

I think the fact that there have been over 500 replies to this thread, with several thousand view, attests to how popular this light still is, and some of that spills over to the original G2 as well.


----------



## ven

A 6p is always with me!


----------



## Offgridled

Grijon said:


> Well said, scout24.


+1 well put...


----------



## SCEMan

The 6P is the flashlight equivalent of the 1911. In stock form its design is legendary and effective, but the modding options take it to another level.


----------



## novice

scout24 said:


> Quite literally universal. Stock and aftermarket parts are available to make it into anything from a 15 lm single 123 cell incan on up to a 3500 lm triple or quad 2x18650 flamethrower.... There are brighter, there are dimmer, there are more efficient. _There are none more versatile_...



If I was going to try to explain my flashlight obsession - particularly with "classic era" Surefires - to a non-flashlight geek, I would secure a large tabletop and put out the following: a 6P, two A19 extenders, a P60, a P61, a P90, a P91, a P60L, a Malkoff, 2 or 3 CR123a, 2x16340 cells, 2x17500 cells, and 2x17670 cells. I don’t currently own any 16650 cells. Then off to one side I would put two 18350 cells, an 18650 cell, Fivemega's 1x18650 cell body and a 1x18650 extender (I don’t have any 18500 cells), and a KT-1 turbohead with appropriate bulb.
The C2, C3, G2, G3, Z2, G2Z, and E-series would probably have to wait for another presentation.
I am not an industrial designer by any means, but one of my design biases is versatility, and interchangeable components. The 6P has it in spades.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

I just received two Orbtronic 16650s. I plan to try one in the stock 6P; perhaps I'll use the light meter to see any difference in the LUX between 2 x CR123As and a quality 16650...


----------



## bykfixer

Why is the 6P so good?

Well when a homeless bum walks up and asks "got a light?"... pre-6P you dug in your pockets for matches. 
Post 6P you show 'em your flashlight.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Hmm. Just compared the 1 x 16650 to pair of CR123s in the light; about 1/2 the lux on the meter. I'll stick w/ primaries for this.



JohnnyBravo said:


> I just received two Orbtronic 16650s. I plan to try one in the stock 6P; perhaps I'll use the light meter to see any difference in the LUX between 2 x CR123As and a quality 16650...


----------



## ven

I need more 6p's ! 1 is always in work and gets used daily, granted not with the incan bulb. But that is not because its not bright enough, or colour temp.........its too throwy Too concentrated for close up work which i use it for(usually within 5m distance)


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Nice pic ven. Three Musketeers? ;-)


----------



## ven

JohnnyBravo said:


> Hmm. Just compared the 1 x 16650 to pair of CR123s in the light; about 1/2 the lux on the meter. I'll stick w/ primaries for this.



Yes, the voltage 4.2(or 4.35v depending) is quite a bit less than the 2x3v of primaries feeding the bulb. Still if run time is important, the 2500mah 16650 cells are a good option


----------



## irongate

ven said:


> I need more 6p's ! 1 is always in work and gets used daily, granted not with the incan bulb. But that is not because its not bright enough, or colour temp.........its too throwy Too concentrated for close up work which i use it for(usually within 5m distance)



So sorry you do not have enough of those-LOL =sure would be nice to have those kind of lights in my collection, maybe someday


----------



## ven

Hey you have 4 x 6p's iirc, many g2's as well....................i am trying to catch you


----------



## irongate

ven said:


> Hey you have 4 x 6p's iirc, many g2's as well....................i am trying to catch you



I really have nothing to say on that report, just a little hobby.:thumbsup:


----------



## ven

I may have added another (4th) to the list in between posts.........seriously, just won one now for £30 + £3 post................happy days(working on another for a friend as i type)


----------



## irongate

So nice to hear that good news Ven.


----------



## ven

Thank you, hoping to get another very soon...............lot of love for the 6p.................it just does the job and does it very well I could have got more c2's, crazy how i think tbh, but beating up a 6p is as cool as having a mint one for me. So its a slow process right now as i do look after my tools. Latest pic of my work 6p is




Can not tell from pics, will have to get some close up ones to show the scars


----------



## Offgridled

gif upload

Little help from a friend


----------



## ven

:laughing: nice one OG


----------



## bykfixer

1991 light bulb still works.
Nuf said?





As you can see, mileage is high, yet still going.


----------



## ven

i will get one of mine like that one day mr fixer...............might take a while but i will :laughing:


----------



## magellan

ven said:


> Thank you, hoping to get another very soon...............lot of love for the 6p.................it just does the job and does it very well I could have got more c2's, crazy how i think tbh, but beating up a 6p is as cool as having a mint one for me. So its a slow process right now as i do look after my tools. Latest pic of my work 6p is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can not tell from pics, will have to get some close up ones to show the scars



What is that machine?


----------



## lightbalb

ven said:


> I need more 6p's ! 1 is always in work and gets used daily, granted not with the incan bulb. But that is not because its not bright enough, or colour temp.........its too throwy Too concentrated for close up work which i use it for(usually within 5m distance)



I'm a Newbie here with a 6P I'm trying to mod. Can you please explain what those modded heads are called and what they do exactly? 

Thank you!!


----------



## peter yetman

It's called a Cryos Cooling Bezel, it replaces the Z44 head on your light. That's just the head, not the drop in, and provides more surface area to keep high powered drop ins cool.
http://www.cryosillumination.com/cryos-cooling-bezel/
P


----------



## bykfixer

lightbalb said:


> I'm a Newbie here with a 6P I'm trying to mod. Can you please explain what those modded heads are called and what they do exactly?
> 
> Thank you!!



The one on the bottom has cooling fins for a multi LED module that gets really hot.

The one at the top is a stock head with a strike bezel for when you have to punch a bear in the face with your flashlight.

Basically lightbalb a drop in is a module that replaces your stock P60 module. You remove the head, remove module from head, "drop in" new module and reassemble. 

High power modules generate a lot of heat that needs to be 'vacuumed' away from the LED to prevent it from cooking itself. There are products that contact the module to allow a sorta path to allow heat to easily flow out of the light similar to opening an oven door slightly. The term is heat sync. Hope that helps


----------



## ven

magellan said:


> What is that machine?



Its an ABB robot, 1 of 6 in a row in their own cells. Thats the base, the other end of the arm is.........
the head








Control pad


----------



## ven

+1 to P and mr fixer

Also you can get the cryos heads in z32 size(m2) from oveready or cryos illumination , these again have more mass over the z44 size cryos's.




Black z44/cu and natural z32


----------



## irongate

ven said:


> Its an ABB robot, 1 of 6 in a row in their own cells. Thats the base, the other end of the arm is.........
> the head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Control pad



Thank You Sir.


----------



## ven

3 more 6p's on the way......1 is for a mate though. So i will be adding just 2 more 6p's to my..............little collection.


----------



## irongate

Very nice Ven. Another G2 for me. Sister decided to be very nice and give it to me. Yellow one from years ago.


----------



## ven

Good stuff, need to use(only have 1)my G2 a little more, sat there waiting whilst i use the 6p


----------



## Offgridled

Blast from the past



image hosting without registration



upload imagem


----------



## irongate

OG very sharp-looking lights there


----------



## Mattj96

@Offgridled I love that! Your cryos collection is awesome. I really dig that raw Al and green body combo.


----------



## Mattj96

And my own cryos hardware! Featuring a Malkoff drop in and a fivemega nickel plated 6p body. All loaded up with white trits, minus the one I broke [emoji29]


----------



## rookieshiner

I bought a 6P about 1998 and it was marketed as a "Gunlight" however was a POS, mounted it on my AR pistol and after a few shots went dead and had to buy another bulb assembly and tried again and same thing happened.

Then I saw complaints everywhere people had the same issues with the light on a gun and then Surefire came out with a Shock resistant bezel but it cost almost 4 x price of light!

Light was about $60. in1998 and the new improved bezel $180.! So a real POS.


----------



## bykfixer

The Streamlight TL2 'shockproof' addressed that issue and the light costed the same as the standard model. Streamlight guarenteed it would withstand being clamped to a 12 guage shotgun. 
The special bulb module could be had for $16 or so back then. 
The irony is sales were really dismal. Early models had a twist head feature that allowed the beam to be tailored like a maglite as well, but the filament shadow made it look like a batman homing beacon when the beam was cast onto objects while in 'flood light' setting....




TL2 module vs P60




Std TL2 module vs Shockproof




Still available at the big A


----------



## ven

Great info and pics Mike, thanks for sharing


----------



## bykfixer

ven said:


> Great info and pics Mike, thanks for sharing



Shhhh... don't tell PK. lol. 

Nah, seriously I'm not sure about the dynamics back then, who said what and all that. But I do know that at that time in history the general consensus was that the 6P was a pretty good alternative to a big ole Maglite or an SL20. Streamlight was trying to catch up with SureFire. The Scorpion was their attempt to outdo the 6P, but later a Night Fighter and TL2 arrived on the scene. Just as bright (on paper), just as power hungry yet the P60 beam was flat out better. Often imitated, but never duplicated. Believe me, I have a bunch of oem 2x 123 lights of the period and the P60 beam was simply the best back then. By 2001 the competition had bodies similar to the 6P in terms of acurate threads, wall thickness and reliable switches. But the 6P still kicked their butt beam-wise.


----------



## ven

Although the 6p incan does not suit my needs(too throwy for most of my uses), i was impressed by the reach/hot spot/beam from the 60lm bulb. I need to give it some more time! Going to run a standard 6p for a bit, 3rd time lucky


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Eh, if floody is your favorite the P60 will always be a downer. But if you ever need to find a dinjy football, your kids guinea pig etc in thick weeds and underbrush it'll be the one to use.


----------



## ven

I may have to let loose one of Madisons guinea pigs, that would be a life/death situation............for me!

6p's with me, 1 in work and 2 more due in the mail








Surefire business end pile up


----------



## Offgridled

irongate said:


> OG very sharp-looking lights there


Thanks iron


Mattj96 said:


> @Offgridled I love that! Your cryos collection is awesome. I really dig that raw Al and green body combo.


Thank you with the tana xpl hi top gun dropin it's really sweet.


----------



## Offgridled

Mattj96 said:


> And my own cryos hardware! Featuring a Malkoff drop in and a fivemega nickel plated 6p body. All loaded up with white trits, minus the one I broke [emoji29]


Very sweet Mattj. I have a few with trits also so clean. Love your five mega body..


----------



## Offgridled

Pretty pretty pretty there sir ven!!


----------



## Lucky Jim

Versatility of the 6P .... stock version, EDC with LED drop in and clip, rifle duty with Malkoff drop in and tape switch.


----------



## Lucky Jim

Actually - in my forgetful old age - the Malkoff is in the EDC version (before someone points it out!)


----------



## Offgridled

Great set up Lucky.. not old age just flashlight excitement!!


----------



## ven

6p incan at last! and i like it Liking the warm temp of this(some seem quite cool or 5000k ish anyway). This seems around 3500-4000k


----------



## Timothybil

ven said:


> 6p incan at last! and i like it Liking the warm temp of this(some seem quite cool or 5000k ish anyway). This seems around 3500-4000k


If you like the warm temp of the incan, look at some of the high CRI drop ins available. I have seen them available from around 3000K up to 5000K. I am kind of partial to the ones around 4500K myself. No matter where you find yourself in that range, the high CRI really makes a difference in how colors look compared to lights with lower CRIs.


----------



## ven

I like 4000-5000k also Tim, 219b 4000k/4500k and 219c 4000k/5000k. xpl HI 4000/4500/5000. The good old xpg2 are also nice in 4000 and 5000k flavours. Usually 4000k is about as close to the warm side as I go, as I like colours to look accurate and often lighter colours end up changing with warmer light. However it depends on use, looking at electrical cables or as a back ground light changes my preferences.

Last few months I seem to be enjoying 4000k quite a bit. The Incan 6p is fun, have left the tail cap UI as is and not fitted a clicky. As you know I like my drop ins, but it's also nice to have a standard 6p from when it all started. Plus I have lots of bulbs ! I have a life time supply as it is, so no excuses really . 

I used the incan a little last night and seemed fine using close up(within a few metres). Heck who knows, might even give it a run in work! After all , variety is the spice of life :candle: When I get chance, I am going to try the bulbs and see what colour temp differences there are in the ones I have. I know one at least is quite a bit cooler.


----------



## ven

Work 6p with a 219c 4000k triple




Close up reveals the odd little ding






Business end


----------



## ven

Well spent the last fed days(evenings to be exact) with the incan bulb and its going to stay, beam has grown on me and (maybe the p60 i tried originally was a little off............dont know) really liking the colour temp/tint/beam of the one in anyway. 

Some bulbs to fall back on come the time of need







Thought i would compare to the LED bulb of surefires. To my eyes it is not as bright as the incan, washes colours out with its very cool beam. I certainly do not see it as an upgrade from the incan, definitely a step backwards imo.


----------



## bykfixer

Good pix!

The P60L had it's virtues, but not without shortcomings. But at the time it was big steps forward in LED technology. 

PK was once quoted as saying "when LED's arrived they shouted "white, white, whiter. Now the shout warm, warm, warmer" lol.


----------



## kamagong

*Four generations of the 6P*

The gateway, bought a few months before SureFire discontinued the 6P line.







With his kin.


----------



## bykfixer

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

^^ Good family photo. Thanks.


----------



## flatline

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

I had been playing with the idea of getting a P60 host for a while now but this thread inspired me to pick up an actual 6P rather than a Solarforce or Seraph. Price turned out to be about the same.

I'm a little nervous about a non-clicky tailcap, but I'm sure there are lots of options for replacing with a clicky.

--flatline


----------



## Swordforthelord

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*



flatline said:


> I had been playing with the idea of getting a P60 host for a while now but this thread inspired me to pick up an actual 6P rather than a Solarforce or Seraph. Price turned out to be about the same.
> 
> I'm a little nervous about a non-clicky tailcap, but I'm sure there are lots of options for replacing with a clicky.
> 
> --flatline


You can install a McClicky without much effort.


----------



## kamagong

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

Good choice. I received the 6P Original in the picture just yesterday. Perhaps it depends on when you grew up, but for me the 6P is what comes to mind when I think of a flashlight. An inspired design, and the 2-cell CR123 form factor remains my favorite size for flashlights.


----------



## ven

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

Great 6p pics, love it! 

Nice choice flatline, so SO much nicer/better than solarforce and as said, super easy to install a McClicky if you choose. The old UI is pretty good with momentary and tighten for on..............very reliable as well with not much to go wrong. 
My works 6p is looking more beat up these days










And thanks to mr fixer, an awesome mug of my 6p


----------



## irongate

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*



ven said:


> Great 6p pics, love it!
> 
> Nice choice flatline, so SO much nicer/better than solarforce and as said, super easy to install a McClicky if you choose. The old UI is pretty good with momentary and tighten for on..............very reliable as well with not much to go wrong.
> My works 6p is looking more beat up these days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And thanks to mr fixer, an awesome mug of my 6p



Very nice lights there Ven and a nice looking Mug!


----------



## ven

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

Thank you irongate


----------



## kamagong

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

I need to pick up a couple of Zeno bezel rings so I can more easily distinguish between my 6PL and 6P Original. Perhaps a black on the 6PL to keep it looking understated and close to stock, and a gold for the Original to match its warm M61WL tint.

Malkoffs are addicting. Here's the Loan Ranger with an M61WLL. lncredible how close the tint is to a P60 head, but with 10X the runtime.


----------



## ven

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

Very nice! Love the original design kamagong.






Couple of 6p cryos(and c2)


----------



## bykfixer

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*



flatline said:


> I had been playing with the idea of getting a P60 host for a while now but this thread inspired me to pick up an actual 6P rather than a Solarforce or Seraph. Price turned out to be about the same.
> 
> I'm a little nervous about a non-clicky tailcap, but I'm sure there are lots of options for replacing with a clicky.
> 
> --flatline



With my first 6P my initial thought was "gotta have a clicky". So I killed 2 birds with one stone and installed a tailstander blemished Malkoff tailcap. 
Later I bought a SureFire clicky for another one. But then I discovered "hey, that twisty is pretty cool" once I got the hang of it.


----------



## novice

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*



bykfixer said:


> ...But then I discovered "hey, that twisty is pretty cool" once I got the hang of it.



bykfixer, I actually prefer the original Z41 to the clickies. But as with most legacy Surefire parts, supplies have been drying up for a while now, and they are getting harder to find.


----------



## bykfixer

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

Agreed. 
Heck at one point I was picking up a whole 6P for less than an nip z41 when that Army dump happened at eBay. One guy had like 29 listed (by the time I saw it) for like $26 ea, shipped.


----------



## Rubicon1000

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

Once I get enough posts I'll post a picture of the 6p family. I think I'm up close to 25 now and I've given that many more for gifts to friends. Dan


----------



## Toohotruk

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*



bykfixer said:


> With my first 6P my initial thought was "gotta have a clicky". So I killed 2 birds with one stone and installed a tailstander blemished Malkoff tailcap.
> Later I bought a SureFire clicky for another one. But then I discovered "hey, that twisty is pretty cool" once I got the hang of it.


Once you get used to the twisty Z41, it becomes second nature, but if someone really wants a clicky, those Malkoffs are hard to beat!


----------



## scout24

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

Bump... 😁


----------



## bykfixer

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

Good bump.

Gonna carry my Malkoff'd 6P beater this week. Round head with an M61 NLL (from Mr24), a blemished Malkoff clicky drilled for a wrist lanyard, and an Alpha speed clip. 






Mr. Reagan approves


----------



## scout24

*Re: Four generations of the 6P*

I've been carrying an old C2/P60 to walk my pups at night. Upgraded my "truck light" to a 6P with an Oveready triple running an 18650. Bedside still a Yuji battery vampire newer production C2. It's still the platform to beat imho. Pocket light is a modern 18350 triple, but the two cell incan SF lights are where it's at all these years later. :thumbsup:

Mr. Fixer- Love the OG 6P. I need to pick one up one of these days. I've only owned the hex heads in all this time! Every time I see one for sale, something else shiny comes up... Lol.

Edit- WTB just posted...


----------



## kamagong

bykfixer said:


> Good bump.
> 
> Gonna carry my Malkoff'd 6P beater this week. Round head with an M61 NLL (from Mr24), a blemished Malkoff clicky drilled for a wrist lanyard, and an Alpha speed clip.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Reagan approves



Nice. I like my old round body very much, almost as much as the 6P Original. Mine has the checkered, protruding button with a M61WLL as I wanted to preserve that old school look. I hope to add a smooth, flush button to the stable one day.


----------



## Timothybil

It's been said before, but it's a nice solid comfortable size metal body, In the words of the old Timex commercials - "It takes a licking and keeps on ticking." And it has the world as a light source. The original incan P60 has a place in history, as do some of the other incan drop-ins available, like those from Lumens Factory. And one can find just about any LED drop-in one wants, any number of modes, any CCT, any CRI, any price range. It's like the Model T of modern flashlights.


----------



## Toohotruk

Timothybil said:


> It's been said before, but it's a nice solid comfortable size metal body, In the words of the old Timex commercials - "It takes a licking and keeps on ticking." And it has the world as a light source. The original incan P60 has a place in history, as do some of the other incan drop-ins available, like those from Lumens Factory. And one can find just about any LED drop-in one wants, any number of modes, any CCT, any CRI, any price range. It's like the Model T of modern flashlights.



Well put!


----------



## scout24

Anything from stock, to this... :devil:


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks for that photo. 
Holy smokes....


----------



## scout24

Was/is a T-Bucket hot rod...


----------



## ven

Thats ridiculous............

















Love it


----------



## bykfixer

I want one.


----------



## scout24

Off topic as all get out... I had started building one way back in the day. Life had other plans. Was going to be an inline 4cyl with a stick shift. Power to weight ratio is insane with these, take your life into your own hands. Rolling chassis was well under 1000lbs.

For those interested, see Total Performance/ Speedway motors in Connecticut. 

Back to your regularly scheduled thread... (Thanks for indulging me.)


----------



## bykfixer

I think Ven might have a 6P with the Holy **** characteristics of that hot rod....


----------



## scout24

:rock::rock::rock: Or five, looking at his pics! And from that firebreather to a Lumens Factory 3v D26 incan dropin fed by a single primary/dummy cell combo with 15 screaming lumens inside of 30 seconds. Versatile?  You could say...


----------



## bykfixer

Or a Yuji'd P60....


----------



## Timothybil

Now that would be interesting. A high CRI Yuji with a nice big LiIon cell backing it up. It could run for days.


----------



## scout24

Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Fixer. I'm just waiting for a P60 to burn out before making another one. I had one in a G2, either somebody needed it more than I did or I misplaced it...


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> Thanks for the reminder, Mr. Fixer. I'm just waiting for a P60 to burn out before making another one. I had one in a G2, either somebody needed it more than I did or I misplaced it...



Hopefully it's just CRS setting in and not the former.







A Bykfixer version of a Scout24 invention.


----------



## scout24

If it's around, I'll find it... Watching our grandson today, so a "G1" is in use. He likes lights for now, and can chew on the nitrolon without me worrying about his teeth...  And as much as I'd love to take credit, the "LED'd P60" was done by many before me. I was simply following in the footsteps of early innovators here!

View attachment 9020


----------



## neutralwhite

what are the O ring sizes for the 6P if anyone could tell me?. I know head / lens is 019. looking at tail size needed. 
thank you Kindly.


----------



## peter yetman

That's a lovely pic, Scout.
P


----------



## Grijon

bykfixer said:


> Or a Yuji'd P60....



Is there one in production?


----------



## tech25

Scout, that picture is adorable. I sometimes use my car light which is a nitrolon G2 for the baby to play with as well.


----------



## scout24

Thank you both! He's an adorable little guy. Takes after his Grandmother... 😁 

Grijon- Search "5mm P60" or 'Battery Vampire P60" , it's a DIY project as far I know. Don't think anyone who makes dropins builds them.


----------



## bykfixer

Grijon said:


> Is there one in production?


I do not know of any but it is easy to do. 

Here's how it works...





The P60 disassembled. (In this case a burnt R30 PK gave me)

Take note of the pins before disassembly. The bulb is glued in with a fairly soft epoxy. Pluck both springs off, remove collar (or maybe not I forget) and straighten out the pins to remove the old bulb.

Insert Yuji, bend pins like they were before. Reassemble. 




The finished pins.


Epic photo of the grandson Scout. 
Much better than my toenail photo. :sigh:


----------



## Grijon

Ah ha ha, thank you scout24 and bykfixer!


----------



## scout24

Where's the toenail photo???


----------



## fivemega

neutralwhite said:


> what are the O ring sizes for the 6P if anyone could tell me?. I know head / lens is 019. looking at tail size needed.



*[size=+2]Surefire C head is -119 (15/16" ID x 1-1/8" OD x 3/32 W)

Surefire C tail is -018 (3/4" ID x 7/8" OD" x 1/16" W)[/size]*


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> Where's the toenail photo???



It was in the 'what you did with your flashlight today' thread but I removed it. Wasn't a very pretty picture of a half a toenail after using the knurled edges of a flashlight to sand down the edges. I thought it was beautiful when I posted it but was reminded actually it wasn't. At second look I agreed.


----------



## scout24

Definitely a good use of SF Knurling though! I think we've all been there. 👍


----------



## peter yetman

You could always get Mike to PM you a copy.
P


----------



## scout24

:lolsign::lolsign::lolsign:


----------



## kamagong

I already have three 6Ps -- a round body, an Original, and a 6PL. Yet I can't seem to help myself, as I now have two more 6P Originals headed my way. 

:help:


----------



## Kestrel

Dates back to July 2009; *epic* thread by AofW:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-yer-own-quot-Battery-Vampire-quot-with-a-P60



bykfixer said:


> [...] A Bykfixer version of a Scout24 invention.


----------



## scout24

Thank you for digging that one up, Kestrel! I certainly never claimed credit for it!!! It was/is probably the best use of a blown P60 ever... 👍👍👍

No Holiday Inn Express involved either, but I did Yuji a P60 tonight. "G1" host with G3 bezel and an Oveready McClicky kit. I did a "How I did this" G1 thread, but didn't pioneer that either !  3200k, fwiw. Now I have something to feed my HDS cells to again when they start blinking and stepping down!


----------



## bykfixer

Makes me want to carry my 6P from 015 around. I presume 015 since the batteries expire in 2025. I like to think it may have been in the final batch SureFire put out, or at least one of the last. 

Thanks for the read special K and the tips Mr 24


----------



## Toohotruk

Kestrel said:


> Dates back to July 2009; *epic* thread by AofW:
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-yer-own-quot-Battery-Vampire-quot-with-a-P60


It's funny, for years I have had this thread in the back of my mind, thinking about trying it for myself...seems like I even saved a burned out P60 to do it with. I'll have to look around and see if I did when I get a few minutes.


----------



## ven

6x 6p's, 5 at home, 1 at work





2 quads, 2 triples, 1 xhp35 HI


----------



## peter yetman

Lightknot's got some 6Ps for sale here...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?452491-Adapters-tail-caps-and-Surefire-lamps
P


----------



## thermal guy

I had forgotten how great the 6P was. I have had 4-5 of them through the years and saw they were selling cheap somewhere so got one. Dropped a M61W in it and I’ll be dam if I can put it down.


----------



## Toohotruk

Good combo! I just put an M61LW in my oldest 6P and it's a beautiful thing.


----------



## rrego

My favorite 6P is one I picked up on the bay. I think it's an early model, as it does not say "6P", it only says Sure Fire, has the smooth flush tail cap rubber boot, and it came with the plastic lamp assembly. I think I saw one time that the ones with plastic reflector are early models.

The reflector is basically smooth and the beam is ugly, but it's awesome that it's the plastic kind 👍. It also has the lanyard ring, but at the head of the light, not at the tail.

Also, this model 6P, when the tail cap is twisted to on, it almost touches the body, which makes for a shorter than normal 6P.

I really like it.


----------



## scout24

Pics please?


----------



## rrego

Here is a link Scout.

https://imgur.com/a/NcLX8TK

Sorry if some pics are blurry. I only have a cell phone for pictures.

...it belonged to R.E.J. :thumbsup:


----------



## ven

Very nice rrego


----------



## scout24

Cool old school 6p! 😁👍


----------



## peter yetman

I'm trying to work out why the left one is so much shorter.
Is the switch significantly smaller, and the Tailcap shorter?
I can't imagine the head and body are able to be more compact.
P


----------



## ven

Tough and tough, 6p's for ever!!!!


----------



## Toohotruk

rrego said:


> Here is a link Scout.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/NcLX8TK
> 
> Sorry if some pics are blurry. I only have a cell phone for pictures.
> 
> ...it belonged to R.E.J. :thumbsup:








Cool old 6P. :thumbsup:


----------



## bykfixer

If you notice at the business end the added anti-roll makes that end longer. And the other end appears longer when both tail caps are screwed down all the way. 
(Not the remaining gap in the newer one)


----------



## Kestrel

Also, the non-lockout tailcaps were shorter both externally & internally; I have an older 6Z and there is certainly less interior length to work with - some cells are long enough for fitment to be a problem.


----------



## peter yetman

Ah Ha,
Thank you.
P


----------



## rrego

Thanks! The newer 6P is running a Sportac drop in and there is a slight gap as it does not turn all the way down, but both tail caps are all the way tight in the picture. I actually wanted to run a rear lanyard ring on the old 6P, but the light would not turn on with the ring installed, not enough clearance, it would only work as momentary. But yeah, it's a cool light.


----------



## bykfixer

Hence the ring up front, but...

Brb...

Checked to confirm, but a Makoff clicky will allow the use of a lanyard ring on the rear and makes tailstand an option.





Here is mine lit with an Elzetta lanyard ring and Malkoff clicky.
I drilled the shoulder of the blemished tailcap and added a lanyard there a long time ago, but thought I remembered trying the ring first. So I placed one on it just now to confirm it did work.
The clip is an Elzetta Alpha clip.


----------



## yazkaz

IMO the 6P is about countless moddability options and relatively easy parts support.

Here's what I have...
All stripped and reanodized but no bulbs installed


----------



## ViperaPiper

Because of this thread I went and bought a 6P Original. A local shop had one brand new in box for a very reasonable price with 2004 batteries in it. Have been reading the CPF forums since 2009 but the 6P made me register to share the excitement. It's that good. 
It feels great in the hand and very well built - somehow the LX2 seems inferior in that aspect. Being my first incan I must say I am very impressed with how bright, throwy and how well it renders objects despite being only 65 lumens. I really like its beam shape and color.
The only thing bugging me is that being a bulb I feel like a drop to the floor will be its end and so far I am babying it. :candle:


----------



## kamagong

ViperaPiper said:


> It's that good.



It is. The G2 may be tougher, the Z2 more versatile, and the C2 better looking, but the 6P is a classic. I'll always have one.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

ViperaPiper said:


> The only thing bugging me is that being a bulb I feel like a drop to the floor will be its end and so far I am babying it. :candle:



Look for an M2 head. It is shock isolated and fits on the 6P body.

Bill


----------



## bykfixer

ViperaPiper said:


> Because of this thread I went and bought a 6P Original. A local shop had one brand new in box for a very reasonable price with 2004 batteries in it. Have been reading the CPF forums since 2009 but the 6P made me register to share the excitement. It's that good.
> It feels great in the hand and very well built - somehow the LX2 seems inferior in that aspect. Being my first incan I must say I am very impressed with how bright, throwy and how well it renders objects despite being only 65 lumens. I really like its beam shape and color.
> The only thing bugging me is that being a bulb I feel like a drop to the floor will be its end and so far I am babying it. :candle:



This post^^ right here says it all. 





The SureFire 6P.


This guy has a few P60's left
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?456820-Surefire-lamps-MN10-MN11-P60
Cheap....
Buy one and don't sweat dropping your 6P. They're pretty durable but just in case it's good to have extras.


----------



## Lumen83

ViperaPiper said:


> I feel like a drop to the floor will be its end and so far I am babying it. :candle:




It could. But, I've dropped mine a bunch and it hasn't killed the bulb yet. And, I'm running a chinese knockoff p60 because I like the beam better than the surefire lamp and it is 3.7v so I can use a 16650 in it. I imagine the 6P with a surefire P60 in it is a tough to kill setup.


----------



## Kestrel

So the 6P came out, what, how many years ago ? I recently added a second car to the fleet, so needed another 'glovebox' light. So, one more 6P in circulation. 
(w/ a Malkoff M61N of course ...)


----------



## kamagong

bykfixer said:


> The SureFire 6P.
> 
> Buy one and don't sweat dropping your 6P. They're pretty durable but just in case it's good to have extras.



You know, I have four 6Ps -- two Originals, a 6PL, and a round body Classic. Truth be told, I only use one of the Originals and the Classic. The 6PL, my first Surefire, has been honorably retired and the other Original remains in its packaging. Still, I want at least two more 6Ps, a gunmetal model and one of Classics with a smooth button. As you've noted, it's good to have extras.



Kestrel said:


> So the 6P came out, what, how many years ago ? I recently added a second car to the fleet, so needed another 'glovebox' light. So, one more 6P in circulation.
> (w/ a Malkoff M61N of course ...)



Can't argue with that line of thinking, though in my case I opted for a G2. No Malkoff though, for a glovebox light the P60L is more than adequate.


----------



## yazkaz

Lumen83 said:


> It could. But, I've dropped mine a bunch and it hasn't killed the bulb yet. And, I'm running a chinese knockoff p60 because I like the beam better than the surefire lamp and it is 3.7v so I can use a 16650 in it. I imagine the 6P with a surefire P60 in it is a tough to kill setup.


One needs to take good care of the 6P but not repeatedly abuse it even at work...

If you drop a stock 6P head-down most likely the front edge of the Z44 bezel will be dented. Once dented and not aligned circularly (ie. warped) you can still use the bezel, but user serviceability is totally compromised (especially with the Pyrex-lensed version), as you can't remove the bezel ring right from the beginning. And in the case one needs to replace a broken lens the bezel will needed to be hammered back to shape, but not after the stock Delrin retainer ring is destroyed (but chipping it out of the chassis).

That's why I ALWAYS modify a 6P at least in appearance, starting with a stronger stainless steel bezel ring for the Z44 (the clicky switch upgrade on the Z41 can wait). That way the chances of warping the bezel would be minimized. The ring doesn't need to be crenellated, just flat version should suffice.

On separate note... I've repeatedly noticed preowned (used) 6P sales on eBay but many fail to address the damage throughout the body. Nicks, dings, and chips are to be expected, but what I find it disturbing (and irresponsible) is the sellers' failure to address the condition of the bezel from the frontal side.


----------



## DRoc

I can vouch for not babying your 6P. I was changing out my power steering pump on my truck years ago, lost my patience, and threw my bored 6P as hard as I could at the shop wall.
Killed the bezel, bezel ring, and drop in-all of which I replaced in a timely manner. Still using that beat-up 6P right now. Rest of the body I feared must have been damaged just from the sheer kinetic force of hitting that wall which was old and mostly metal. Replaced parts, and off I went, although I've mellowed in my behavior somewhat now. I certainly won't do that again.
:fail::tinfoil::duh2:


----------



## yazkaz

DRoc said:


> I can vouch for not babying your 6P. I was changing out my power steering pump on my truck years ago, lost my patience, and threw my bored 6P as hard as I could at the shop wall.
> Killed the bezel, bezel ring, and drop in-all of which I replaced in a timely manner. Still using that beat-up 6P right now. Rest of the body I feared must have been damaged just from the sheer kinetic force of hitting that wall which was old and mostly metal. Replaced parts, and off I went, although I've mellowed in my behavior somewhat now. I certainly won't do that again.


Were you able to salvage any useful parts from the beat-up Z44? If you had the patience you could've rescued the underside gasket, which is invaluable for bezel maintenance.

IMO it was the availability (and abundance) of modular C-series parts that many ended up abusing their 6Ps etc. without reservation. But the good old days are over and these parts are getting fewer and fewer. So babying a 6P with reasonable TLC is still key.


----------



## fyrstormer

yazkaz said:


> On separate note... I've repeatedly noticed preowned (used) 6P sales on eBay but many fail to address the damage throughout the body. Nicks, dings, and chips are to be expected, but what I find it disturbing (and irresponsible) is the sellers' failure to address the condition of the bezel from the frontal side.


As someone who buys and sells items on eBay frequently, I think sellers intentionally don't provide detailed descriptions. If they don't provide detail about the condition of the item, they can sell a damaged item to a buyer who is optimistically expecting an item in better condition, without fear of punishment. If the buyer files a complaint, eBay won't be able to penalize the seller, because the seller didn't actually lie about the condition of the item. Instead they include pictures that show just enough hints of damage that they can plausibly claim to have not hidden the damage from buyers, and then wait to see if any buyers bother to ask for more detail.

I _always_ ask for more detail. (well...almost always. occasionally I forget to ask, but I never forget to regret not asking.)


----------



## yazkaz

fyrstormer said:


> As someone who buys and sells items on eBay frequently, I think sellers intentionally don't provide detailed descriptions. If they don't provide detail about the condition of the item, they can sell a damaged item to a buyer who is optimistically expecting an item in better condition; if the buyer files a complaint, eBay won't be able to penalize the seller, because the seller didn't actually lie about the condition of the item. Instead they show pictures and wait to see if any buyers bother to ask for more detail.
> I _always_ ask for more detail. (well...almost always. occasionally I forget to ask, but I never forget to regret not asking.)


Me too, I ALWAYS ask for additional views on a flashlight item and even request the seller to post specific views, mainly on bezel's front, rear tailcap side, and even tailcap internals (esp. with Surefire E-tailcaps).

But there are those who simply refuse (or ignore) seller/customer communication. That happens rarely but still presents a nuisance to the customer side who needs to ensure everything is good before bidding (or adding item to the cart).
It's still an ongoing problem as we speak, but I'm not discussing the specifics here as this will sidetrack the original 6P discussion......


----------



## bykfixer

A couple years back I bought a used G2L for cheap. Op showed it had a non round Z44 with the P60L in it. When it arrived it looked like it had been smashed by something very heavy. Think "wheel burrow" shaped. But it worked. 

I replaced the head with a round SolarForce one (since it's matte black like the G2) and never looked back. 

Regarding 6P's, I have a few that were acquired as Malkoff drop in hosts but still have a couple stock ones. I think it was early 016 when the bay was flooded with a cache of 09-ish 6P's for as low as $23. I locked in at about $27 or 28 iirc. Bought 12. lol. Gifted most since then. 

I dig the original round 6P for nostalgia, but the anti-roll (PK version) is such a useful flashlight be it stock or modified. It's the one that re-invented the flashlight.


----------



## Timothybil

Best incan thing I did for my G2 [which also applies to the 6P] was to get a Lumens Factory HO-6 lamp. Really a nice step up.


----------



## DRoc

I recall the bezel assembly being so badly compressed, that I simply unscrewed it to take a quick look and confirm that that part was done. I don't even think I could have pulled the gasket out from underneath the glass because it was so destroyed.
My ultimate concern was that it was a bored body, and maybe there was distortion, but it was fine.
Those were the years when I was collecting a lot of the soon to be discontinued incan SF parts, so I had lots of parts to change it with.
Even my boring job, originally did not allow certain size 18650 batteries, so I used a drill and sandpaper to accommodate....figured it would weaken the body. That has not been the case. Great flashlight, the 6P.



yazkaz said:


> Were you able to salvage any useful parts from the beat-up Z44? If you had the patience you could've rescued the underside gasket, which is invaluable for bezel maintenance.
> 
> IMO it was the availability (and abundance) of modular C-series parts that many ended up abusing their 6Ps etc. without reservation. But the good old days are over and these parts are getting fewer and fewer. So babying a 6P with reasonable TLC is still key.


----------



## yazkaz

DRoc said:


> I recall the bezel assembly being so badly compressed, that I simply unscrewed it to take a quick look and confirm that that part was done. I don't even think I could have pulled the gasket out from underneath the glass because it was so destroyed.
> My ultimate concern was that it was a bored body, and maybe there was distortion, but it was fine.
> Those were the years when I was collecting a lot of the soon to be discontinued incan SF parts, so I had lots of parts to change it with.
> Even my boring job, originally did not allow certain size 18650 batteries, so I used a drill and sandpaper to accommodate....figured it would weaken the body. That has not been the case. Great flashlight, the 6P.


If you could unscrew the bezel then most likely the front side was warped but not the center part (of the bezel). But to access the underside gasket you need to work from the frontal side, nowhere else. Did you recall if the Pyrex glass was broken as well?

It probably isn't a good idea for generalists to extract parts from broken assys but to many of us here any salvsgable part does mean a lot.

But at least in this case a warped bezel like the Z44 can be replaced so easily and swiftly. Not quite so with modern (current) SF products......


----------



## DRoc

yazkaz said:


> If you could unscrew the bezel then most likely the front side was warped but not the center part (of the bezel). But to access the underside gasket you need to work from the frontal side, nowhere else. Did you recall if the Pyrex glass was broken as well?
> 
> It probably isn't a good idea for generalists to extract parts from broken assys but to many of us here any salvsgable part does mean a lot.
> 
> But at least in this case a warped bezel like the Z44 can be replaced so easily and swiftly. Not quite so with modern (current) SF products......




Glass was completely shattered. Front of the bezel was mushroomed and compressed badly, but the bezel unscrewed from the body no problem. Drop in, bezel, and bezel ring were DONE
I use my 6P's a lot...like big time. Out of the blue one day my glass cracked from end to end....no explanation. Probably just to many heat cool cycles, and the temper just said..."I've had enough"
Love my two beater 6P's.
I've got lots of parts and all the tools to maintain them.


----------



## kamagong

DRoc said:


> I've got lots of parts and all the tools to maintain them.



That's cool. If I ever destroyed a 6P like that, I'd just cannibalize it for parts.


----------



## ven

I still cant get my head around a 20ft drop




Sportac nichia inside, no flicker, bezel easily tapped back round with vice and mallet. How the lens did not shatter either is crazy





Up there conveyor height





That pretty much same drop killed one of my H2r's(previously survived a 10ft drop!!!), however Olight UK was awesome and sent me another..........


----------



## yazkaz

ven said:


> I still cant get my head around a 20ft drop
> Sportac nichia inside, no flicker, bezel easily tapped back round with vice and mallet. How the lens did not shatter either is crazy


The outer lens did not shatter because you were dealing with the older style, press-fit Lexan-lensed Z44. But equally as crazy was that the glass lens inside your Sportac module didn't shatter either, and that's a miracle......

If however your Z44 were the Pyrex-lensed version then you would have a hard time tapping back the bezel housing, as you would need to break the Delrin retainer ring first. Then after tapping back the bezel housing you would proceed to replace any other broken parts eg. lens and retainer ring (preferrably a third-party stainless steel one).


----------



## bykfixer

Two words Ven:





Wrist Strap


----------



## yazkaz

bykfixer said:


> Two words Ven:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrist Strap


I disagree. Instead a proper lanyard (SF style of course) is more preferable. There are times when quick lanyard detachment is needed for convenience, and with a simple lanyard strap tied in that defeats the purpose of the lanyard ring.

Plus, if the lanyard is long enough you can actually wear it with the flashlight attached, which may provide some additional convenience (depending on situations).


----------



## ven

Haha good one, well I have used in past but dust/oil contamination tends to wear thin . Clean hands/gloves end up dirty from the wrist strap. Also my uses I need a light(use head lamp most of time now anyway) then put away, then use, then pocket, then use, then rest against something. That could all be in a few minutes of uses, sometimes not having a free hand to help loop. To leave dangling around wrist drives me bonkers.Too have around my wrist would not be user friendly in work for me .

Heck I am just clumsy, I knock magnetic lights off as well as drop them

Cool pic pic of the 6p mr fixer


----------



## peter yetman

I went through a phase of dropping my lights on dog walks, and decided that something like "Idiot Mittens", but with a light attached would work for me.
Never did it though.
P


----------



## ven

peter yetman said:


> I went through a phase of dropping my lights on dog walks, and decided that something like "Idiot Mittens", but with a light attached would work for me.
> Never did it though.
> P




I have "idiot hands"...............do those count


----------



## DRoc

I've used my 6P with the lanyard that comes with the C2 before hanging around my neck doing work that requires two hands. But of course, a good headlamp works better....but that would have taken the fun out of the versatility of the 6P.:twothumbs


----------



## Toohotruk

I tried a lanyard and a wrist strap and neither worked well for me while working...there are times when you need the light like right NOW and dinking with detaching it from something is not an option. There's nothing worse than being on top of a ladder with your hands full, trying to balance something and you can't use your light because you need two hands to detach it. I just hope the light lands right and doesn't get too damaged if it drops. :shrug:


----------



## thermal guy

“Sportac nichia inside, no flicker, bezel easily tapped back round with vice and mallet. How the lens did not shatter either is crazy”

I have one particular 6P that for some unknown reason is constantly being pulled down by earths gravity more then any light I have. When taking the head apart I could see why the lens was still intact. Omg that is some THICK glass. I had no clue it was that thickness.


----------



## yazkaz

thermal guy said:


> “Sportac nichia inside, no flicker, bezel easily tapped back round with vice and mallet. How the lens did not shatter either is crazy”
> 
> I have one particular 6P that for some unknown reason is constantly being pulled down by earths gravity more then any light I have. When taking the head apart I could see why the lens was still intact. Omg that is some THICK glass. I had no clue it was that thickness.


Stock Pyrex is 3.25-3.30mm
Replacement UCL usually 2.86mm which means underside gasket needs to be replaced as well


----------



## DRoc

One of my fellow supervisors at work saw my Surefire 6P bored (by me), with a McC, bezel ring and Vihn nichia drop-in today. Long story short, he was one of the few people I have come across that appreciated the fact that my light has been built, not bought. I am in the Army, but we take our combat shirts off to work, and he saw my Surefire sheath on my belt.
You do not find too many people that notice these things.
Plus, my two beaters are beat up and look like it. They are impressive to a sharp eye...:thumbsup::twothumbs:rock:


----------



## Kestrel

Sounds like a couple of good candidates for our 'Show your beat up lights' thread ...


----------



## Toohotruk

Kestrel said:


> Sounds like a couple of good candidates for our 'Show your beat up lights' thread ...


THIS!!! 

@DRoc


----------



## DRoc

Great idea...but I think it would not be as successful as just adding to this thread. I'll post pics of my longtime beater 6P's soon when I figure out how to post a decent picture.


----------



## flatline

Kestrel said:


> Sounds like a couple of good candidates for our 'Show your beat up lights' thread ...



I look at pictures of beat up lights and wonder what I'm doing wrong. I carried the same light for almost 10 years and it barely looks used.

--flatline


----------



## DRoc

flatline said:


> I look at pictures of beat up lights and wonder what I'm doing wrong. I carried the same light for almost 10 years and it barely looks used.
> 
> --flatline



You are not doing anything wrong. Different people, different habits.
I have been in the Army for a long time, and despite common misconception, it is not hard to keep an essential piece of personal equipment pristine.

Me? I have flat out carried my 6P lights with keys, knives and they have been the subject of rough usage frequently. But, I have a few other lights that I occasionally carry, and they are clean. No marks.
I guess it depends on a number of factors, most notably your connection with the item, which honestly should play here because I do believe that we all love our Surefire 6Ps....for rough or easy....


----------



## Random Dan

flatline said:


> I look at pictures of beat up lights and wonder what I'm doing wrong. I carried the same light for almost 10 years and it barely looks used.
> 
> --flatline


Sometimes when I use my light I just take it out of my pocket, shine it on something, then return it to my pocket. Despite what some may tell you, using your light doesn't require throwing at a brick wall.


----------



## Toohotruk

Random Dan said:


> Sometimes when I use my light I just take it out of my pocket, shine it on something, then return it to my pocket. Despite what some may tell you, using your light doesn't require throwing at a brick wall.


Sometimes I use mine while I'm working with tools on a ladder in a construction environment and sometimes it gets dropped, scrapped against various abrasive objects, etc, which give the light "character marks" otherwise known as scratches and dings. Not all of us work in an office.


----------



## yazkaz

Toohotruk said:


> Sometimes I use mine while I'm working with tools on a ladder in a construction environment and sometimes it gets dropped, scrapped against various abrasive objects, etc, which give the light "character marks" otherwise known as scratches and dings. Not all of us work in an office.


Simply because you work in construction, engineering etc. doesn't mean you can subject your 6P to casual (or absolute) abuse...

"Sometimes it gets dropped..." -- don't you grip the light firmly (or place the light securely on a surface) when using it?

Don't underestimate repeated scratches, dings, chips etc. When the damage becomes structural it could mean worse.


----------



## ma tumba

I really love the host. Have a few with different aftermarket tail (miser, aw, mcclicky) and head (fivemega, lf, stock) options, all incand. Love them all. The only missing thing is a head option with a much shallower reflector so the beam is as wide as that off an e2e. 


Отправлено с моего iPhone используя Tapatalk


----------



## bykfixer

Toohotruk said:


> Sometimes I use mine while I'm working with tools on a ladder in a construction environment and sometimes it gets dropped, scrapped against various abrasive objects, etc, which give the light "character marks" otherwise known as scratches and dings. Not all of us work in an office.



After 35+ years working construction I get this. Sooner or later nearly any tool I have been tasked with carrying has gotten dropped, ding'd or scuff'd. One tends to use preventive tactics yet sooner or later things get dropped.

The key is under no circumstances what-so-ever do you drop it in a porta-jon.:shakehead


----------



## kamagong

bykfixer said:


> After 35+ years working construction I get this. Sooner or later nearly any tool I have been tasked with carrying has gotten dropped, ding'd or scuff'd. One tends to use preventive tactics yet sooner or later things get dropped.
> 
> *The key is under no circumstances what-so-ever do you drop it in a porta-jon.*:shakehead



I guess doing so would put things in sharp focus. How much do I like that light?


----------



## bykfixer

Would bring a whole new perpective in why it's called 6"p"....

The second version is suitable for a lanyard ring and wrist lanyard but the original all round type won't turn on if a lanyard ring is placed between body and tailcap in stock form. The tailcap is nearly touching the barrel when twisted to on with the round 6P. The anti-roll head version had enough gap to allow that. 

PK devised a way to use the 6P and other products as nun-chuk devices in case of emergency.


----------



## kamagong

bykfixer said:


> ...the original all round type won't turn on if a lanyard ring is placed between body and tailcap in stock form. The tailcap is nearly touching the barrel when twisted to on with the round 6P. The anti-roll head version had enough gap to allow that.



I'm not following. My old school round body turns on just fine with a lanyard ring. That's a P60 in there.


----------



## bykfixer

My 6P (round) nor my 6R would.


----------



## scout24

Light's been around for 30 +/- years. This thread is 11 1/2 years old with 700 posts. It must be decent...:nana: :thumbsup:


----------



## Toohotruk

yazkaz said:


> Simply because you work in construction, engineering etc. doesn't mean you can subject your 6P to casual (or absolute) abuse...
> 
> "Sometimes it gets dropped..." -- don't you grip the light firmly (or place the light securely on a surface) when using it?
> 
> Don't underestimate repeated scratches, dings, chips etc. When the damage becomes structural it could mean worse.



Obviously you do not work in the construction field, or you would understand that nearly every tool that is used frequently is almost impossible to keep in pristine condition. Construction sites are rough environments on everything, including tools, clothes, lunch boxes, flashlights and even the human body. Besides, Surefire 6Ps can take a lot of abuse before they are rendered unusable, same with most of their other lights...same for a lot of other brands of flashlights as well.


----------



## Toohotruk

bykfixer said:


> ...The key is under no circumstances what-so-ever do you drop it in a porta-jon.:shakehead


 Amen to that one! I once dropped a brand new Stanley 25' tape measure down a Port-a-john...as far as I was concerned, my brand new $20 tape measure ceased to exist at that point. :mecry:


----------



## kamagong

scout24 said:


> Light's been around for 30 +/- years. This thread is 11 1/2 years old with 700 posts. It must be decent...:nana: :thumbsup:



I'd say so. The C2 is better looking, the Z2 more versatile, but there is just something about the 6P. Especially those round bodies.


----------



## yazkaz

Toohotruk said:


> Obviously you do not work in the construction field, or you would understand that nearly every tool that is used frequently is almost impossible to keep in pristine condition. Construction sites are rough environments on everything, including tools, clothes, lunch boxes, flashlights and even the human body. Besides, Surefire 6Ps can take a lot of abuse before they are rendered unusable, same with most of their other lights...same for a lot of other brands of flashlights as well.


No I don't work in rough environments (even though I can feel you), but a buddy of mine does. Except that he's dealt with the Fenix PD3 and did abuse it until it broke, then claimed for a replacement. He does have a C2 but AFAIK he's not willing to subject that to the very same harsh work conditions..


----------



## Dave D

bykfixer said:


> The second version is suitable for a lanyard ring and wrist lanyard but the original all round type won't turn on if a lanyard ring is placed between body and tailcap in stock form. The tailcap is nearly touching the barrel when twisted to on with the round 6P. The anti-roll head version had enough gap to allow that.





kamagong said:


> I'm not following. My old school round body turns on just fine with a lanyard ring. That's a P60 in there.



My round bodied 6P (1999) works fine with a lanyard ring, however my round bodied 9P (1988) won't. It still works with momentary but the tailcap can't screw down enough for constant when a lanyard ring is fitted.


----------



## yazkaz

Dave D said:


> My round bodied 6P (1999) works fine with a lanyard ring, however my round bodied 9P (1988) won't. It still works with momentary but the tailcap can't screw down enough for constant when a lanyard ring is fitted.


Is this because of the tailcap specs? AFAIK earlier tailcaps were shorter and would thus end up with compatibility issues...


----------



## Slayer1

How much does a pristine condition Surefire 6P Gunmetal in a box will cost now?


----------



## yazkaz

Slayer1 said:


> How much does a pristine condition Surefire 6P Gunmetal in a box will cost now?


Probably more than $100... perhaps even $200...

BTW earlier batch 6P-GM's finish looks a tad more blued than with the later silver batches


----------



## Slayer1

Deleted.


----------



## scout24

Please use the search feature to look for past sales info when looking for pricing info rather than asking in the open forum. Thanks.


----------



## Dave D

yazkaz said:


> Is this because of the tailcap specs? AFAIK earlier tailcaps were shorter and would thus end up with compatibility issues...



No, the tailcaps are the same dimensions, what changed was the distance between the end of the tailcap thread on the body and where the body changes to 1" diameter.

The below photo has 6P and 9P round bodies for comparison, the 9P is on the left the 6P on the right.







The 9P dates from 1988 and the 6P from 1999.


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks Dave. Good info. 

My stock tailcap kept falling apart when swapping batteries so I put a Malkoff clicky on it and an Elzetta speed clip so it is disguised as a mutt now. Malkoff 361W makes it a mighty sweet mutt. 





The mutt is third from the right.





Slayer1 said:


> How much does a pristine condition Surefire 6P Gunmetal in a box will cost now?



A million billion if you want it bad enough. I paid $60 for mine in 2018.


----------



## ampdude

yazkaz said:


> Probably more than $100... perhaps even $200...
> 
> BTW earlier batch 6P-GM's finish looks a tad more blued than with the later silver batches



Really? I used to have one, serial #212 in fact with the crosshair logo and it didn't look any different than my newer GMs.

It had the two flats on the body, hex bezel and press fit lexan lens.

Are you referring to the super old round body ones?


----------



## yazkaz

ampdude said:


> Really? I used to have one, serial #212 in fact with the crosshair logo and it didn't look any different than my newer GMs.
> It had the two flats on the body, hex bezel and press fit lexan lens.
> Are you referring to the super old round body ones?


I could only faintly recall the eB price based on past listings of the said item. A beat-up one would cost less of course.
And no I wasn't referring to the super old round ones...

Yours would probably worth a bit more but personally I wouldn't fancy the older hex-base Z44 with press-fit Lexan. I did however have handled such example some years back when I helped another CPF member get one from a store in my vicinity


----------



## DRoc

I bought a 6P GM fully modded from a European member on the MP years ago. Beautiful light. Won't accept the highest capacity18650 batteries, but that is easy enough to adjust
Sharp looking light.


----------



## yazkaz

DRoc said:


> I bought a 6P GM fully modded from a European member on the MP years ago. Beautiful light. Won't accept the highest capacity18650 batteries, but that is easy enough to adjust
> Sharp looking light.


Not worth the risk boring the body to 18mm cell spec unless done by a pro. Especially with s precious body such as this one...

BTW, my only one 6P-GM was acquired in around 2013 (brand new in package) and so far I've only applied some cosmetic mods (Xeno bezel ring, McClicky upgrade). Such a great body, it's been holstered and put into storage (I have a box full of custom light hosts, all holstered).


----------



## DRoc

It was bored professionally. IIRC, oveready boring job. By adjusting, I meant using lower capacity cells. It's unlikely that I would do anything to it myself.


----------



## yazkaz

DRoc said:


> It was bored professionally. IIRC, oveready boring job. By adjusting, I meant using lower capacity cells. It's unlikely that I would do anything to it myself.


I too have an OR-modded 6P, 18mm bore spec (of course), HAIII hard clear (OD) reanodize. Have to give credit to OR for such 6P mod but they've since migrated to their Boss system and never turned back to SF parts support...

So you're saying the OR bore spec cannot accommodate protected 3400mAh cells? How about unprotected 3500mAh?


----------



## Lumen83

For anyone who is thinking of having these bored, just be warned, I had a 6P bored by a reputable member of this site and the threaded part of the body ended up snapping off. Although I haven't actually tested, The keeppower 16650 Batteries seem to have almost as much capacity as many 18650s under a 3.7 or 6 volt incan lamp, and no boring is required.


----------



## DRoc

yazkaz said:


> I too have an OR-modded 6P, 18mm bore spec (of course), HAIII hard clear (OD) reanodize. Have to give credit to OR for such 6P mod but they've since migrated to their Boss system and never turned back to SF parts support...
> 
> So you're saying the OR bore spec cannot accommodate protected 3400mAh cells? How about unprotected 3500mAh?




I think I have almost 30 6P/M2/C2 bodies bored by oveready...and pretty disappointing that not one fits or has ever fit a 3400 battery. Only bodies I have ever had have been from Bugsy that fit a 3400 right off. 
Every bored oveready 6P host I have has been too tight too fit the most current batteries 18650. You almost have to bore them twice.
I will start experimenting with unprotected and lower capacity cells.


----------



## DRoc

Lumen83 said:


> For anyone who is thinking of having these bored, just be warned, I had a 6P bored by a reputable member of this site and the threaded part of the body ended up snapping off. Although I haven't actually tested, The keeppower 16650 Batteries seem to have almost as much capacity as many 18650s under a 3.7 or 6 volt incan lamp, and no boring is required.



Good point...I have many, many unbored 6P and C2 lights whichI can use 18650 with. Another great option.


----------



## Toohotruk

I LOVE the hi cap 16650s!!! I pretty much run all of my 2xcr123 Surefires on them, including my Fury...that's where they really shine!


----------



## AndrwTNT

Finally snagged a Z17 lens replacement for my round body 6P that had a really bad lens.

As far as I know, I'll need to break the old lens or drill it into removable pieces in order to get it out from the press fitting, then press the new one down into it?


----------



## archimedes

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?365392-Surefire-Z17-lens-replacement

Requires a lot of pressure, FYI

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...fire-6p-lens&p=2229732&viewfull=1#post2229732

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ns-Or-Source&p=5310323&viewfull=1#post5310323


----------



## LogansRun

DRoc said:


> I think I have almost 30 6P/M2/C2 bodies bored by oveready...and pretty disappointing that not one fits or has ever fit a 3400 battery. Only bodies I have ever had have been from Bugsy that fit a 3400 right off.
> Every bored oveready 6P host I have has been too tight too fit the most current batteries 18650. You almost have to bore them twice.
> I will start experimenting with unprotected and lower capacity cells.


Yeah, I think it's hit or miss. 

I would say, at the time that boring out the 6P/M2/C2/Z2 bodies was very popular, high capacity 18650's weren't available. I have several bored bodies where even a older 3100mAh cell is a bit tight. Luckily, I do have one 6P on my desktop that fits my protected EagleTac 3400mAh's. But, it won't fit my 3500mAh Sanyo 10A cells.


----------



## yazkaz

LogansRun said:


> Yeah, I think it's hit or miss.
> I would say, at the time that boring out the 6P/M2/C2/Z2 bodies was very popular, high capacity 18650's weren't available. I have several bored bodies where even a older 3100mAh cell is a bit tight. Luckily, I do have one 6P on my desktop that fits my protected EagleTac 3400mAh's. But, it won't fit my 3500mAh Sanyo 10A cells.


Speaking of which, here's my findings with 18650 compatibility:
Test mule/body: Fivemega 6P custom (genuine modified HA3 black, ~18.7mm bore) (also part of my makeshift EDC 6P setup)
Batteries:
Surefire 3400mAh (protected) -- compatible (good fit)
AW 3100mAh (protected) -- compatible (good fit)
AW IMR 3000mAh (unprotected) -- compatible (good fit)
Sanyo 3500mAh (unprotected) -- compatible (good fit)
Readilast 3500mAh (protected) -- not compatible (but compatible with FM OEM 2x18650 body with good fit)
Readlilast 2900mAh (high current, protected) -- compatible (some with good fit, others may have a tad righter fit at the ends)


----------



## AndrwTNT

archimedes said:


> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?365392-Surefire-Z17-lens-replacement
> 
> Requires a lot of pressure, FYI
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...fire-6p-lens&p=2229732&viewfull=1#post2229732
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ns-Or-Source&p=5310323&viewfull=1#post5310323


Thanks archimedes.

I wasn't sure if popping the old lens out the back way would do any damage to the sloped rim that retains the lens in. Per those links, it seems others have successfully done it that way though. Am I still okay to just hammer it out through the back (popping the lens out the front)?


----------



## archimedes

Not sure, and probably depends on multiple factors, but I would think yes there is some risk of damage.

I really don't like "press-fit" (friction fit) parts.

It's a good system if you like stuff to fall out, rattle around, get stuck, break, and then be difficult or impossible to fix or replace. Otherwise, not so much.

I think it might be safer, for you and for the part, to carefully drill or cut out "wedges" to try to get it out piecemeal.

Installation, though, still seems to mainly require the "use a bigger hammer" approach


----------



## bykfixer

Are you going to re-use the old lens? 

A 18mm socket would be close to the outter area so leverage would be fairly even on the outside edge for popping it out. 

Add an extension to the socket for it to poke out of the rear of the head.

Set on firm surface extension down.

Place a piece of wood across the bezel. Give the wood a few good whacks and lens should pop out. The heavier the hammer the more force will be applied per whack. 

A wee bit of liquid dish soap around the outside of the new lens will act as a lube when installing new lens and easily be washed off after.

Edit: changed 19mm to 18 since 19 would be too big to pop it out. 19 would be better to install the new one however.
End edit.





18mm on an extension.





Or deep socket for better balance.





18 on the outside is not ideal.





19 is much much better.


----------



## angelina123

I also have an OR-modded 6P, 18mm bore spec, HAIII hard clear (OD) reanodize.


----------



## yazkaz

angelina123 said:


> I also have an OR-modded 6P, 18mm bore spec, HAIII hard clear (OD) reanodize.


I have one as well (I might have mentioned that before). The bore is slightly less than that of FM's own custom 6P (~18.75mm), at around 18.65mm. AW 3400mAh (~18.35mm) will fit. The internal battery bumper ring is measured at around 1.5x17mm (thickness x ID; to be confirmed).

Personally, for custom boring, would prefer the diameter to be capped at around 18.7mm. That way the minimum tube thickness (at the tail o-ring groove side) would be kept at around 0.5mm which is still considered quite strong. Any bore beyond 19mm will render the tail threads a very dangerous position (eg. higher risk of being broken out during tail drop).

Some custom builders will nevertheless aim at ~18.89-19.00mm for more hi-cap 18650 compatibility, but warn their customers of such potential risk beforehand.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

What is the color temperature of the Surefire P60 incandescent? Is it close to 3000k?


----------



## flatline

I'd say 3000k is a pretty good guess. Certainly closer to 3000k than 4000k.

--flatline


----------



## scout24

Agreed, flatline. I recall reading that a P90 driven hard was close to 3200k, so 3000 for a P60 driven to spec seems right.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

flatline said:


> I'd say 3000k is a pretty good guess. Certainly closer to 3000k than 4000k.
> 
> --flatline


Cool (no pun intended lol) - thanks!


----------



## bykfixer

With brand new fuel cells. After a bit they begin to dim, lowering the kelvin to a nice sunset glow after a while.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

Another Surefire 6P question... Can you use a Z44 bezel (HAIII hard clear/OD natural) on a G2 Nitrolon?


----------



## yazkaz

5S8Zh5 said:


> Another Surefire 6P question... Can you use a Z44 bezel (HAIII hard clear/OD natural) on a G2 Nitrolon?


Yes -- in fact native G2 LED models do come with a variant of Z44 with slightly thinner aluminum substrate, Lexan lens and HAIII finish

A normal Z44 swap out should be fine.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

yazkaz said:


> Yes -- in fact native G2 LED models do come with a variant of Z44 with slightly thinner aluminum substrate, Lexan lens and HAIII finish
> 
> A normal Z44 swap out should be fine.


Thanks *yazkas*.


----------



## fivemega

yazkaz said:


> Some custom builders will nevertheless aim at ~18.89-19.00mm for more hi-cap 18650 compatibility, but warn their customers of such potential risk beforehand.


*Newer FM custom bodies have less deep oring grooves. This will decrease risk of breaking also increase water resistance.*


----------



## yazkaz

fivemega said:


> *Newer FM custom bodies have less deep oring grooves. This will decrease risk of breaking also increase water resistance.*


That's true to your own custom-brewed C-style bodies I believe, but what about the existing genuine 6P bodies that you've worked on (ie. modified)? Such as the current nickel-plated (and dotted) 6P body/host, as well as your previous hard black 6P body mod (ie. the one with additional o-ring groove on head side, triple grooves on body etc.). Obviously you can't reduce the tailside o-ring groove depth (ie. make it less deep) on those, correct?


----------



## 5S8Zh5

What are the diffuser options for the 6P?


----------



## 5S8Zh5

I'll try one more: Are there any dropin high / low solutions for the 6P or G2 using Malkoff dropins (i.e. M61LL)?


----------



## id30209

5S8Zh5 said:


> I'll try one more: Are there any dropin high / low solutions for the 6P or G2 using Malkoff dropins (i.e. M61LL)?



Yep, M61/91 any kind can be used in 6P but G2 is plastic so only M61L and more L's are approved for it.
Diffusers wise, give it a look here.


----------



## ven

Missing my work 6p, a forever classic


----------



## id30209

Another stunning line up!


Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## ven

Thank you kind sir


----------



## Grijon

5S8Zh5 said:


> I'll try one more: Are there any dropin high / low solutions for the 6P or G2 using Malkoff dropins (i.e. M61LL)?


If you mean multi-mode, the M361 dropins work fine.


----------



## Mr. LED

How many hours should I expect the P60 module to last?


----------



## bykfixer

Depends on how you use it. I have a round head one that still had the Laser Products module in it when it arrived. The lens was like new but the body was pretty scratched up and missing anodize all over the place. But…… if it's your only light and you use it a lot, you'll probably need a lot of batteries too. 
Lumens Factory has replacement modules. About $13. The owner is an awesome guy trying to keep SureFire incan lights running. 
Genuine P60's show up at eBay at times for between $10 and $18. They're referred to as "pulled", which means somebody bought a bunch of 6P lights cheap and sells the P60 modules.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

Grijon said:


> If you mean multi-mode, the M361 dropins work fine.


That's true - forgot about the 361.


----------



## Tempest UK

Still using my 6P - very worn after all these years but going strong. Currently using a KX4 or a P60 depending on the day, but I might take a look at some Malkoff options - something with long runtime rather than high output. 

I've probably a couple dozen 6Ps in total. Such a classic of industrial design.


----------



## flatline

I bought a Malkoff M61WLL to put in my 6P, but since heat isn't an issue, I ended up putting it in a polymer host instead. So instead, I have a CustomLites 3-mode with memory drop-in (or as I think of it, programmable single-mode with no momentary).

--flatline


----------



## bykfixer

The 6P was like Tupperware. Imagine life without all those Tupperware-like sealing containers. 
Had it not been for the 6P there'd be no Malkoff, no HDS, no Haiku, no Elzettas, no whole bunch of classics we take for granted now. 

I still have a few stock ones but to be honest it's just more practical with a drop in LED module. My round head one has an M361 (219c) from a group buy here, an Elzetta speed clip, and a Malkoff clicky.


----------



## novice

Tempest UK said:


> I've probably a couple dozen 6Ps in total. Such a classic of industrial design.



Tempest UK, nice to have you checking in!


----------



## 5S8Zh5

Got a perfect fit with this XENO TW02 diffuser (amazon).


----------



## Tusk

It looks like cheap 6P's ($34.00 with free shipping) are back. Can't post the link so Google will get you there.


----------



## hellboy90

Firstly, im so sorry if my E. not good ! Hi guys, i see a circle bored inside in the middle of the body of my new 6p . It is strange ??? Thanks 

Gửi từ Redmi Note 7 của tôi bằng cách sử dụng Tapatalk


----------



## ven

Congrats on possibly the best flashlight tool in the world and :welcome:

Reg bore, not 100% and on phone(need bigger pic)

Run 16650 fuel if can, lots of p60 options to go at. But also enjoy the bulb to, amazing beam, 100CRI what’s not to love. But it will need a c2 and z2 to keep company at some point


----------



## Kestrel

ven said:


> [...] 100CRI what’s not to love.


Lots ?


----------



## Kestrel

hellboy90 said:


> Firstly, im so sorry if my E. not good ! Hi guys, i see a circle bored inside in the middle of the body of my new 6p . It is strange ???


Hello & :welcome: - always happy to see international members.

I would like to mention that your pics are slightly oversized for the forum; if you would please be so kind as to resize for 800x800 max, thank you. 
Best regards,


----------



## Bullzeyebill

hellboy90 said:


> Firstly, im so sorry if my E. not good ! Hi guys, i see a circle bored inside in the middle of the body of my new 6p . It is strange ??? Thanks



The lip you see is for a Surefire Lamp Assembly to sit on.

bill.


----------



## hellboy90

Kestrel said:


> Hello & :welcome: - always happy to see international members.
> 
> I would like to mention that your pics are slightly oversized for the forum; if you would please be so kind as to resize for 800x800 max, thank you.
> Best regards,


I can't find the fix post button man ;))
@Bullzeyebill i think is not sir, the circle in the middle of the body too far from the end of bulb .
@ven hey man , here some new shot i tried to take with my camera phone 

And one more question , SureFire still product the 6p ,? My batteries tell the date is 2028 , so that mean my 6p product in 2018 right ;))















Gửi từ Redmi Note 7 của tôi bằng cách sử dụng Tapatalk


----------



## bykfixer

Taking a picture down the barrel of a flashlight is no easy task. 

If you stick your pinky into the barrel from the bottom you will notice it is not a groove but is a machine marking. My guess is it is where drilling the barrel took place from two directions and the mark you see is where one direction over lapped the other. 

SureFire stopped producing the 6P in 2016. So speculation around here is that they still had some in factory that were packaged in 2017 and 2018 with new batteries. Or there are some extremely authentic looking fakes being sold. You are not the first to show a brand new 6P with 2028 expiring batteries. 

Your English is good. Welcome to CPF


----------



## ven

Thanks for the pics, looks pretty normal to me. There will always be slight variations, due to different batches/times/ machinists over the years.
Grabbed a random 6p


----------



## Bullzeyebill

You are right. I was looking at the lip instead of deep into the barrel.

Bill


----------



## hellboy90

OMG ! You mean my 6p maybe clone 1:1 , thanks for all explain !!! My friend ordered it for me from Walmart . Heres some more detail pics..


----------



## ven

I cant see it being a clone, not from walmart anyway. Enjoy, its just the way its been machined imho. There will be variables between batches . I have a 6p with similar print and QR code.


----------



## hellboy90

Thank u ! I don't know why the pics break , i choose the smallest size on tapatalk , but in a previous post its doesnt break 

Gửi từ Redmi Note 7 của tôi bằng cách sử dụng Tapatalk


----------



## rrego

I just assembled a HA "6P" from a C2 bezel, OR HA natural body, and C2 twisty tailcap (C2 parts from auction site). I've wanted to put one of these HA 6Ps together for a while now. Due to the OR body, I run a P90 on two KP IMR 18350s. Nice little set up :thumbsup:


----------



## yazkaz

ven said:


> I cant see it being a clone, not from walmart anyway. Enjoy, its just the way its been machined imho. There will be variables between batches . I have a 6p with similar print and QR code.


That's the latest (or even final) batch of 6P with newer (current) logo and tailside QR code. The center body knurling however is a tad more aggressive than on earlier batches, in that dirt could easily get clogged in.

And besides, even if Walmart sold this 6P it shouldn't be a knockoff anyway.



rrego said:


> I just assembled a HA "6P" from a C2 bezel, OR HA natural body, and C2 twisty tailcap (C2 parts from auction site). I've wanted to put one of these HA 6Ps together for a while now. Due to the OR body, I run a P90 on two KP IMR 18350s. Nice little set up :thumbsup:


I have produced a few of these custom HAIII OD 6Ps for sale last year. All have been sold out.
This year I'm hoping to have a few more made, even offering ~18.7mm custom bore.

As for your custom OD 6P, definitely colors won't match because the OR's own custom Hard Clear treatment leans more towards golden yellow (near true olive drab) but many of such stock HA3 SF parts lean more to the tactical green side.


----------



## rrego

Yazkaz, yes, you are right, it does not match perfectly. It reminds me of a M4 I have where the head and tail match, but the body is a different shade, however it is pretty cool that they don't match. In this case, it's nice to see the slight difference in shades.

That's cool that you'll make a new batch, bored for 18mm cells. I will keep an eye out, especially since it would be Surefire original body HA 6P.


----------



## yazkaz

rrego said:


> That's cool that you'll make a new batch, bored for 18mm cells. I will keep an eye out, especially since it would be Surefire original body HA 6P.


What is challenging though is to score slightly earlier 6P batches (ie. with previous SF logo) that have less tin content in the substrate. Because if the tin content is too high, the resulting Type 3 Hard Clear (OD) shading will render very pale grey. This is unacceptable, and when that happens, then the pars concerned will need to be redone and rendered Hard Black.

The later batches (ie. with current SF logo) however have better aluminum substrates and, when done in Hard Clear, results in a very nice OD shading leaning towards golden yellow.


----------



## wield1

nathan225 said:


> I bought a sure fire 6pL a few months ago and I love it thinking about geting it a dropin what what is the best led dropin for the 6p


Overready V5 Triple XP-L if you want the very best in flood.


----------



## yazkaz

wield1 said:


> Overready V5 Triple XP-L if you want the very best in flood.



But that's a $226+ investment, is it really worthwhile?
Plus it also requires 18mm batteries for optimal performance......


----------



## flatline

I've been getting tons of use out of my Malkoff dropins, especialily the M361N. If you're looking for something a little less expensive, CustomLites dropins are excellent.


----------



## scout24

Vinh (Sky lumen) also makes 6P dropins that are of high quality. Triples, quads, choice of emitters. As with Oveready, not inexpensive but another choice.


----------



## lion504

I prefer the 6P, Z44, and Malkoff tailcap with M61 drop-in. IMHO, it's a superior combination: 

- 2xCR123 battery tube is omnivorous, but still fairly compact. Takes 1x 18650, 1xAA/14500 (with sleeve/spacer), 1xCR123 (with spacer), 1x18350 (with spacer), etc.
- Z44 enables tool-free P60 drop-in swaps, which I execute fairly often.
- Z44 allows a steel bezel ring.
- Malkoff tailcap enables tail-standing.

Downside is loss of the hi-low ring...


----------



## 5S8Zh5

After unscrewing my green G2 Nitrolon, the switch popped out also. This one was purchased maybe a decade or two ago, and with a newer black G2 Nitrolon the switch seems liked it's glued in there. Is it suppose to be secure / glued?


----------



## yazkaz

5S8Zh5 said:


> After unscrewing my green G2 Nitrolon, the switch popped out also. This one was purchased maybe a decade or two ago, and with a newer black G2 Nitrolon the switch seems liked it's glued in there. Is it suppose to be secure / glued?


Your green G2 must be of the very old batch. Its switch internal DOES pop out. The tailcap host's opening is also a bit shorter than that with the modern twisty mechanism.

Unfortunately there's nothing you can do with the green G2 tailcap host as no clicky upgrades can be fitted. The black G2's tailcap, OTOH, seems to have a proper twisty switch mechanism which can be replaced by the standard Z41 McClicky upgrade. The twisty internal is held by a jam nut (rivet) and only the Delrin retainer ring behind the aluminum block may be glued; but with some effort the entire twisty internals can be taken out without damage whatsoever.


----------



## flatline

I've tried to take the switch out of both my 6P and G2 but can't get them to turn. I've got a clicky replacement that's just sitting in the box...been there for years...


----------



## Buck91

flatline said:


> I've tried to take the switch out of both my 6P and G2 but can't get them to turn. I've got a clicky replacement that's just sitting in the box...been there for years...




Have you tried a dip in boiling water first? That has taken care of every glued flashlight assembly I've tried it on (although to be fair there are a few I didn't try).


----------



## yazkaz

flatline said:


> I've tried to take the switch out of both my 6P and G2 but can't get them to turn. I've got a clicky replacement that's just sitting in the box...been there for years...


You can't get the aluminum block(s) to "turn"; you need to use proper nose pliers to pull the core out. Takes practice in controlling the force, but absolutely doable (I only got to refine this particular procedure a year or so ago). Do wrap the plier tips with masking tape before proceeding, so as to minimize tool mark damage on the aluminum core..

Some instructions here:
https://www.oveready.com/resources/mcclicky-installation-instructions/

If you want to do it the easier way, you can start from the boot side. If however you'd like to preserve the stock boot, then do this: use proper lubrication (eg. CorrosionX) and apply it to the boot and its vicinity. Doesn't matter if the lube seeps into the chassis thru the boot (actually that would even help slide the boot out). Once the part(s) are wet enough, lightly soak out the excess lube (use tissue paper), then use your fingers to slowly nudge the boot out. Again, be very careful and also use tissue paper for added grip. Eventually the boot would come out from the boot-side bore and (hopefully) without damage.

(Note: if your tailcap is held not by a rivet (jam nut) but instead a Hex screw, use the proper Hex wrench to undo that screw. No need to do the hammering from the boot side.)

Once done, use a pick to hammer out the internals from the boot side opening. The internal core should come out without issue. Then, clean the internal threads (pref. with acetone) to remove any dirt, gunk etc. After that, use the nose pliers to sputter out the remaining Delrin retainer ring. This is where the procedure may trip a lot of people, as the ring concern may appear glued. Which is why cleaning the threads with acetone would help, to increase the chances of loosening up the thread glue. Alternatively, freezing the remaining tailcap host chassis for 25-30 minutes would also help pop the Delrin ring out.

Once you've gutted the tailcap assy, reclean the internal threads with soap water, acetone etc. Use a brush to clean out the threads as much as possible. Once the host is clean, relubricate the inside threads, and let it dry. Then you can start installing the Z41 McClicky upgrade.

Additionally on the G2 tailcap chassis, be extra careful with the aforementioned steps, as the plastic tailcap host could break easier than the normal Z44 variant.

Hope these instructions help...


----------



## 1313

Just smack the old switch with a hammer and it pops out.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

AW gives a good description for removing 6P tail cap switches for his soft start switch. Here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...ies-Tail-Cap&p=2709689&viewfull=1#post2709689

Bill


----------



## yazkaz

Bullzeyebill said:


> AW gives a good description for removing 6P tail cap switches for his soft start switch.


Actually I've followed that instructions on Z41 disassembly for years but the results varied depending on the individual host to be worked on. For me the failure rates (ie. the chances of damaging and marring any component inside) were quite high

The way the aluminum block needs to be clamped and pulled out didn't seem to be explained appropriately in AW's instructions. A lot of experience and discovery is to be expected when the modder repeats the same switch disassembly task from time to time. And now I know the aluminum block needs to be gripped firmly by its perimeter before applying any force to pull it out, bit by bit.

And once I get used to this revised method I find less need to go back to the "hammering from the boot side" route -- as the chances of damaging the stock boot are still high.


----------



## ven

Every one i have done, long nose pliers, grip tail cap and pull centre out. Most plastic rings have come out relatively easy. I found the g2 and g2z a little bit of a pain. So i softened it up in a mug of hot water(inside a bag). One of the little ****** had to be pretty much destroyed to remove(in bits, breaking off until it came out).


----------



## 5S8Zh5

My solution: 6P with G2 Nitrolon head, Malkoff M61NLLLL, Oveready hardpress McClicky tailcap, and Keepower 2500 mAh 16650.


----------



## bykfixer

A 6P with an M61LLLL (regardless of tint) is a mighty fine lighting tool.


----------



## Kestrel

5S8Zh5 said:


> My solution: 6P with G2 Nitrolon head, Malkoff M61NLLLL, Oveready hardpress McClicky tailcap, and Keepower 2500 mAh 16650.


All hail the mighty :bow: SF LEGO.


----------



## Toohotruk

:thumbsup:


----------



## SATX_Girl

To me it is good because it has no dark spots and the color reproduction is great since it has an incandescent bulb.


----------



## pro2

The 6P is just a simple and clean design. I am not a flashlight collector, but have been issued multiple flashlights through my career in the Army. Of all the lamps, you will still find 6P flashlights in every one of my vehicles and randomly around the house. They are a no-brainer.


----------



## 325addict

I have its brother (or sister?), the C2 Centurion, which is one of my favorite lights. Or, better said, I have 3 of them  I use the P90 and two pieces 16340 Li-ion cells in them all the time. But my absolute favorite, has been for more than 10 years, is the C3 Centurion. The possibility to use higher capacity 17500s instead of those tiny 16340s makes it the perfect light for me. With two Keeppower 17500s with 1200mAh you will get just an hour of runtime, which is enough for me.


----------



## Grijon

I have a whole box of unopened 6Ps and have used one around the house for years with a variety of dropins and batteries.

I've always appreciated it as a host and the legacy it led to.

Last night I loaded the original P60 and two CR123As into my stock 6P and my wife and I went for a night forest walk.

Wow!! I've spent so little time with the P60 on primaries (I've used 16650 almost exclusively with it for so long) I forgot -or never knew?- how incredible the old P60 is on its intended voltage.

We both were simply amazed at the quality of the light, how the beam looked in the great outdoors, and just how much range the beam provided.

I've been subscribed to this thread for a long time, and have always appreciated my 6P in a legacy sort of way, but last night I was genuinely thrilled with the experience of taking a 6P into the woods, in its original form just as it was released in the 90s.


----------



## Buck91

Grijon said:


> I have a whole box of unopened 6Ps and have used one around the house for years with a variety of dropins and batteries.
> 
> I've always appreciated it as a host and the legacy it led to.
> 
> Last night I loaded the original P60 and two CR123As into my stock 6P and my wife and I went for a night forest walk.
> 
> Wow!! I've spent so little time with the P60 on primaries (I've used 16650 almost exclusively with it for so long) I forgot -or never knew?- how incredible the old P60 is on its intended voltage.
> 
> We both were simply amazed at the quality of the light, how the beam looked in the great outdoors, and just how much range the beam provided.
> 
> I've been subscribed to this thread for a long time, and have always appreciated my 6P in a legacy sort of way, but last night I was genuinely thrilled with the experience of taking a 6P into the woods, in its original form just as it was released in the 90s.




Indeed. I used not a 6P but a G2 as a glove box light for many years, even after LEDs came into the modern era. Just a fantastic beam which belies its 65lm rating.


----------



## archimedes

Although I now have Malkoffs in most of my 6P (and C2, G2, etc) hosts, I do still use an A2 quite regularly. The quality of output on those old 6V lamps remains incredible, agreed.


----------



## Olumin

I am going to ask there here, because I think MDs Lithium Ion thread is not very regularly viewed. 

When using a P61 in a 6P together with a Keepower 2500mAh 16650, what kind of brightness can one expect to get out of that? Since it is supposed to output around 120lm when receiving 6v, I expect anywhere from 60 - 80Lm on 3,7V? I have asked this before on another thread but it did not really fit there. 

If anyone has tried this (or can try this), please let me know as I am curious.


----------



## Jean-Luc Descarte

Even if I don't have personal experience with it, I can point out one aspect: the form factor is very pretty. There's beauty in simplicity, and the 6P nails that just like the D cell Maglites to make a model of flashlight that is clean as can be and still memorable.

And if going by the "P60 host" size of torches from other brands, it's a one-size-fits-all in the hand. Not so wide or long that dinky-handed users think of holding it as a balancing act, and not so tiny as to disappear inside a big hand's grip. Me, I'd love the design even more if they maintained the exact same proportions but upscaled the host for 21700 cells. A man can dream.


----------



## Swedpat

Olumin said:


> I am going to ask there here, because I think MDs Lithium Ion thread is not very regularly viewed.
> 
> When using a P61 in a 6P together with a Keepower 2500mAh 16650, what kind of brightness can one expect to get out of that? Since it is supposed to output around 120lm when receiving 6v, I expect anywhere from 60 - 80Lm on 3,7V? I have asked this before on another thread but it did not really fit there.
> 
> If anyone has tried this (or can try this), please let me know as I am curious.



I just tried 16650 Keeppower battery in my green Nitrolon Surefire with original bulb. The 16650 was 4,16V and the two Titanium innovation(at least 10 years old) CR123 was measured together slightly above 6V. The output with the 16650 was slightly more than 1/3 of the output of 2xCR123. And after a while it will be even less with the voltage drop of course.

Several years ago I compared my MagCharger with the 6V battery to 3xR20 NiMh cells. The output was then 1/6 with 3xR20. I don't remember if I checked the voltage of the R20s, though. But this shows that the efficiency of incandescent drops fast with lower voltage.
That does not necessary mean a problem if you can find it acceptable with 20-40lm using 16650. It's still very useful brightness.

Otherwise you can take a look at Lumens factory incandescent bulbs for Surefire. They offer as well 150 and 190lm module for 3,7V battery. I don't know how bright these are compared to Surefire's own for 6V but for sure they must be much brighter than running 6V bulb with 3,7V battery.


----------



## Olumin

Thanks a lot man. Did not expect it to drop so drastically. Very interesting to read. I know about the LF, but they are hard to get in Europe. Would have to order those from the US, and I dont know where the best place would be.


----------



## Swedpat

Olumin said:


> Thanks a lot man. Did not expect it to drop so drastically. Very interesting to read. I know about the LF, but they are hard to get in Europe. Would have to order those from the US, and I dont know where the best place would be.




You are welcome! I recently ordered direct from Lumens Factory in Hong Kong. Wrote abouy it HERE.


----------



## 325addict

The original A2 Aviator uses a regulated(!) FOUR Volts bulb. What we've come to expect for LED-lights (that is: they are regulated, constant brightness devices) is here true for an incandescent light. You can use two 3.7V batteries without any problems in this light, the bulb won't burn out! I do this all the time, I use it for the purpose it was intended for: pre-flight checks on an airplane  



archimedes said:


> Although I now have Malkoffs in most of my 6P (and C2, G2, etc) hosts, I do still use an A2 quite regularly. The quality of output on those old 6V lamps remains incredible, agreed.


----------



## Buck91

325addict said:


> The original A2 Aviator uses a regulated(!) FOUR Volts bulb. What we've come to expect for LED-lights (that is: they are regulated, constant brightness devices) is here true for an incandescent light. You can use two 3.7V batteries without any problems in this light, the bulb won't burn out! I do this all the time, I use it for the purpose it was intended for: pre-flight checks on an airplane



No kidding? I had no idea it was a 4v bulb! Does that mean the various replacements from LF won’t work in an incan Aviator?


----------



## archimedes

The A2 has a regulator to the incandescent lamp, correct. This is quite uncommon, if not (possibly?) unique.

Over-volting the stock ring will overdrive the LEDs however, likely decreasing their service life.

The regulator is in the host, so the LF lamps work fine, by the way.


----------



## fivemega

Swedpat said:


> I just tried two Titanium innovation(at least 10 years old) CR123 was measured together slightly above 6V. The output with the 16650 was slightly more than 1/3 of the output of 2xCR123. And after a while it will be even less with the voltage drop of course.



*Measuring battery voltage without load won't tell you much. If you can measure voltage under same load (P60 1.25 Amp) you will see about 5 volt and (P61 2.3 Amp) about 4.4 Volt.*



Olumin said:


> When using a P61 in a 6P together with a Keepower 2500mAh 16650, what kind of brightness can one expect to get out of that? Since it is supposed to output around 120lm when receiving 6v, I expect anywhere from 60 - 80Lm on 3,7V? I have asked this before on another thread but it did not really fit there.



*Protected Keeppower 16650 is about 2000mAh. You may get close to 2500 mAh if charged to 4.35 Volt but this is not going to happen because protection circuit won't let you.
BTW, P61 is NOMINALY 6 volt bulb. When powered by pair of primary 123A cells, voltage will drop to about 4.4 volt. You won't get there using single protected cell. Obviously, voltage drop will be less and forwarded voltage to P61 slightly more by using high current cell,(like IMR) bigger cell, (like 18650) 2 or 3 parallel cells and...
For this reason, I suggest bigger cells such as 18650, 2P18650, 26650 and...)
If you close look here will see current draw of each bulb and P61 is about 2.3 Amp but P60 is about 1.25 Amp.
Now find out 123A battery shoot out and voltage here.*


----------



## Swedpat

fivemega said:


> Measuring battery voltage without load won't tell you much. If you can measure voltage under same load (P60 1.25 Amp) you will see about 5 volt and (P61 2.3 Amp) about 4.4 Volt.




Yes I am aware of that. Actually a few weeks ago I bought a multimeter in order to measure the status of mainly all my alkalines(but also CR123s) I have taken out from flashlights. I have no idea how much these are used so I thought it would be good to know. The multimeter I chose has a lot of functions including battery voltage tester. When I asked the salesman what does that mean(because testing battery voltage I thought was possible with any voltmeter) he explained that this model adds some resistance to check the battery under some load, which should be a bit more realistic. But I really don't know what that means in reality. The multimeter is Uni-T UT139A.


----------



## Olumin

I will probably bore my 6P to accept 18mm cells if the wall-thickness of the body allows it. Then I could directly compare running a P61 assembly on a 16650 vs 18650, or a P90/P91 on 2x 18350s vs 2x 16340s.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

I've gone back to the venerable Z41 on my go-to dog walkers, so the pic needs updating. Put the green G2 Z41 on the 6P, and the black G2 Z41 on the green G2 body.


----------



## Olumin

5S8Zh5 said:


> I've gone back to the venerable Z41 on my go-to dog walkers, so the pic needs updating. Put the green G2 Z41 on the 6P, and the black G2 Z41 on the green G2 body.



I would not even dream of wearing brown shoes with a black belt, and now this...


----------



## bykfixer

Because: 
LEGOOOOOOOO that's why


----------



## neutralwhite

are there still many 6P sellers around ?.
thanks.


----------



## Grijon

neutralwhite said:


> are there still many 6P sellers around ?.
> thanks.


PM sent.


----------



## desmobob

My old 6P has been on my nightstand for a long time. Years ago, I installed an LED drop-in... "Bright Light R2" it says. I can't remember exactly what it was... a Cree of some sort, I think. Anyway, it has a dreadful beam pattern.

What are 6P fans recommending as a modern, economical drop-in LED for the 6P these days?


----------



## Buck91

desmobob said:


> My old 6P has been on my nightstand for a long time. Years ago, I installed an LED drop-in... "Bright Light R2" it says. I can't remember exactly what it was... a Cree of some sort, I think. Anyway, it has a dreadful beam pattern.
> 
> What are 6P fans recommending as a modern, economical drop-in LED for the 6P these days?




1. Malkoff
2. Lumens Factory
3. Sportac
And the house brand at Kaidomain is supposed to be pretty decent. Not at the same level as the above, though.

In that order and with the sportac taking a distant third (for me).


----------



## xdayv

Malkoff. Period. [emoji3526]


----------



## desmobob

I like the low power Malkoff for the increased run time. (Why not high, med or low instead of regular, low, and low-low?) The specs say for 6V-9V, but I''m wanting to pick up a couple of 17670's. 

The Lumens Factory unit is 2.7V-4.5V but I'd have to go to a 3-mode to get the longer run times. But it's a nightstand light, so I guess I should be realistic about the needed run time capability or battery choice.

Hmm....


----------



## fivemega

dutchguy2 said:


> Please can somone explain to me why this 6P is so damn good??



*Because it's an incandescent.*


----------



## ma tumba

fivemega said:


> *Because it's an incandescent.*



yes!


----------



## nmiller

fivemega said:


> *Because it's an incandescent.*



Exactly! LEDs serve a purpose but as of a few weeks ago I've gone back to incans. Can't beat them. All these years of searching for a led that is like an incandescant bulb I finally give up. I'm good with the 60 lumens from my G2 and 6P.


----------



## Olumin

I actually received my 6P today. It was sold as never used, however there is some paint-damage on the knurling of the tailcap. No such damage on the body of the light. I just wanted to ask if this is normal and to be expected. If not, I will contact the seller and ask what’s up with that. 

Also; is it normal that the stock switch has no travel_ at all_? It does appear to _kind of_ work, but I would not call that a switch. I am aware that is only has momentary function, but I thought there would be *some *travel? I dis- and reassembled the tailcap but there was no change. I actually thought it was broken at first.


----------



## Buck91

Unless you think it’s going to appreciate as a collectible I would not be concerned at all. And there are so many I doubt it will appreciate... but then again look at the cost of the occasional solarforce now...


----------



## Olumin

It’s not about that, I just don’t like sellers not staying true to their claims. If I am sold a new product, I expect a new product. Thats all.


----------



## nmiller

Switch seems normal to me. Tail could be new, but I've never seen a Surefire unused with the anodizing messed up like that. If the knurling is not damaged I'd say perhaps it's a manufacturing issue? 

Regardless, I understand your frustration. New is new. Unfortunately there are a lot of dishonest people out there. If it works ok I'd use it and enjoy it. I recently went through a similar situation with an E2E. Frustrating.


----------



## Olumin

Regarding the switch. The Incan Drop in from Lumens factory has yet to arrive, so the only light I could test the function of the z41 with was a G2X MV. twist for constant-on works of cause. Momentary activation does not work however. The light only flashes and flickers when momentary activated, when it works at all. Is the z41 not compatible with the G2X MV (or pro) or could the switch be defective? 

I apologize if these are stupid questions, but knowing my luck I actually got a defective unit. I just want to make sure all is OK.


----------



## archimedes

The Z41, if you've never used one before, appears to have remarkably little switch travel.

Regarding your photo, I have seen similar anodize defects in a few situations.

Occasionally, a part may not have been thoroughly cleaned before coating, or otherwise had surfaces occluded during that process. Uncommon for SureFire, but possible.

The shape and pattern of the defects suggest possible abrasion. Even if "unused" , should the item have been subject to vibration + friction (say, rolling around in a toolbox or something) , then that could result.

Finally, there have been quite some fakes / counterfeits / clones of popular SureFire parts and products, yes even the relatively inexpensive models 

A detailed macro-type photo of the switch internals might be helpful on the latter.

By the way, I do not have any of the newer SureFire to test, but I do not think SF claim full parts-compatibility with the older "vintage" (6P-era) models.


----------



## Olumin

The light is definitely original, I compared the parts to images of gutted z41s. It was a reputable seller too which has sold several of them. Old stock I believe, but they were sold without the p60. I remember reading somewhere that the z41 was supposed to be compatible with the G2X, and that some people used it to turn it into a momentary-only light. I do however not know if it is also compatible with the dual-mode G2x Pro and G2x MV. This is what has me worried.

I really don’t want to tear the switch apart again to take some pictures, because its hell to get the spring back in. This is more difficult than trying to wind a clock mainspring back into the barrel by hand. Jesus. 

Whoever engineered this tailcap was no watchmaker, I’ll tell you that.


----------



## archimedes

I meant photos of the interior of the tailcap, not entirely disassembled.

If it was "new/unused" (NOS etc) ... where was the P60 ?

I do not recall the stock 6P ever being available without a lamp assembly. The LED version may have been, but that would have been labeled as such, and should have had the replacement emitter dropin included instead.


----------



## Olumin

The light was sold without original packaging. Just the body, head and tailcap. But the body was sold as unused/new. Old stock with the packaging and bulb removed. He had 65 of them, they are out of stock now. I bought it that way because I did not intend to run the original P60 in it anyway, and because it was one of the last places left were new 6Ps were still sold.


----------



## archimedes

Not sure I would consider that "new / mint / unused / NOS" (or similar terms) if not sold complete ....


----------



## bykfixer

I swapped the tailcap of my G2 and G2x Pro and the twisty from the G2 would operate the G2x Pro. Twist for high, quick second twist for low. 

My more modern 6P (2015 model) has more travel for momentary than my 2009 version. And the old Laser Products tailcap had hardly any travel at all. My older G2 tailcaps do not travel much either. I've never commited model numbers of surefire parts to memory.

I remember a few years back a member showing a 6P still in the package with missing ano. PK said environmental laws in California made surefire decide to outsource anodizing while he was there.


----------



## archimedes

All good info, thanks byk[emoji106]


----------



## Olumin

6P build was finally completed a few days ago, and with that my first incan build. 6P body, head and tailcap. Mcclicky switch (but with the original boot), steel bezel and coated/tempered lens, HO-4 lamp. Running it on a 16650. Fantastic light overall (the original tail-cap switch worked fine by the way). Only thing that surprised me was the very pronounced halo around the edge of the beam. Both of my HO-4 units are like that. This is typical from what I gather? For some reason I would have expected a cleaner, artifact free beam overall. Nice throw for such a relatively low output light (compared to most LED throwers). 

Tint is of cause unbeatable, and now im kinda hooked. This is probably going to cause me to get a E series head from Lumens factory together with a 3,6V incan drop-in and use that with my Malkoff MDC as a EDC. Or wait until I get my hands on an E1e.


----------



## desmobob

Could you explain exactly what you did to the upgrade the original tail switch? I like my old 6P a lot, but hate the tail switch... not enough travel, flickering, etc.


----------



## Olumin

Yes, Z41s apparently tend to stutter on momentary activation when not enough force is applied. You can get the Z41 compatible Mcclicky switch upgrades from several sources like Ebay for example. Lumens factory has them too. You will have to remove your old switch assembly prior to installing the new one of cause. There are videos on Youtube that show how this is done. The new switch is simply screwed into the tailcap.


----------



## desmobob

Olumin said:


> Yes, Z41s apparently tend to stutter on momentary activation when not enough force is applied. You can get the Z41 compatible Mcclicky switch upgrades from several sources like Ebay for example. Lumens factory has them too. You will have to remove your old switch assembly prior to installing the new one of cause. There are videos on Youtube that show how this is done. The new switch is simply screwed into the tailcap.



Thank you. I will order one. Brass or copper retaining ring? What is the advantage of copper that makes it worth spending about 50% more? My 6P does nightstand duty, so it doesn't need to be all-weather, all-temperature ready, high-current capable or whatever it is that copper offers... I'm guessing brass will be fine.


----------



## Olumin

Copper has less electrical resistance then brass (more conductive), as well as better thermal conductivity. It really will not matter for any practical applications


----------



## desmobob

Olumin said:


> Copper has less electrical resistance then brass (more conductive), as well as better thermal conductivity. It really will not matter for any practical applications



Thanks again for your help. I have ordered the switch kit and look forward to upgrading the 6P.


----------



## ven

desmobob said:


> Thanks again for your help. I have ordered the switch kit and look forward to upgrading the 6P.



I have a few brass and some cu, makes no real difference as said. What can be a problem is the tail coming loose inside, so make sure nipped up good. Also naked 16650 (not button top protected) can sometimes be a little short depending on drop in, this can cause contact issues/ flickering. Quite a few i now use protected keeppowers, especially work 6p/z2. Some flat top 16650 i have added a magnet, obv have to be careful!.


----------



## Swedpat

Olumin, have you compared how bright is HO-4 module compared to Surefire standard 80lm module?


----------



## Olumin

I don’t have a P60 here to compare. Keep in mind that to my knowledge the P60 is not using standard ANSI lumens. The stock P60 has a claimed output of 65 lumens, not 80. It will probably appear to be a bit more than 65 ANSI lumens to your eyes. The HO-4 should be brighter either way with its claimed 150lm. Lumens factory also has the EO-4 which claims 190lm, which should certainly be brighter than a P60. Keep in mind that the difference between 150 and 190 is not very noticable to the eye. I’d go with the HO-4 for the better runtime.


----------



## yazkaz

Olumin said:


> Copper has less electrical resistance then brass (more conductive), as well as better thermal conductivity. It really will not matter for any practical applications


Copper helps a bit, but that's it. Also it seems to oxidize a tad faster so frequent cleaning is necessary.

I use both for Z41 McC mods. Usualy, the copper ring is reserved for the better Z41 hosts (usu. HAIII stock or aftermarket reanodized).


----------



## yazkaz

ven said:


> I have a few brass and some cu, makes no real difference as said. What can be a problem is the tail coming loose inside, so make sure nipped up good. Also naked 16650 (not button top protected) can sometimes be a little short depending on drop in, this can cause contact issues/ flickering. Quite a few i now use protected keeppowers, especially work 6p/z2. Some flat top 16650 i have added a magnet, obv have to be careful!.


One of the basic rules for a Z41 McC mod to work is to have the switch internals installed firmly. In other words, screw the McC and retainer ring in until very snug. Do also take care of the switch boot though, as over-tightening of the switch could warp the boot (if the boot is not aligned properly)

Also the use of the Z41 stock boot for the McC internals is generally not recommended, as the stock boot cap is shorter than that bundled with the McC (DX soft-press, OR med- or hard-press, LF silicone med-press). If the stock Z41 boot were used the McC actuation cuold be rendered very sensitive.

BTW on a typical 6P setup any 16650/17670 usage should not require any magnets. The cell itself should provide enough length for effective electrical contact on both springed sides.


----------



## desmobob

Thanks for all the tips, folks! I appreciate the help.


----------



## Buck91

Olumin said:


> I don’t have a P60 here to compare. Keep in mind that to my knowledge the P60 is not using standard ANSI lumens. The stock P60 has a claimed output of 65 lumens, not 80. It will probably appear to be a bit more than 65 ANSI lumens to your eyes. The HO-4 should be brighter either way with its claimed 150lm. Lumens factory also has the EO-4 which claims 190lm, which should certainly be brighter than a P60. Keep in mind that the difference between 150 and 190 is not very noticable to the eye. I’d go with the HO-4 for the better runtime.




I can say the LF HO-A2 I have is definitely not as bright as the stock A2 bulb despite being rated for significantly more lumens. Not sure how that extrapolates to the P60. It’s not a huge difference in brightness but it’s there to my eye.


----------



## Olumin

There are often big differences in brightness even between the same model of bulb. That goes for both surefire and Lumens factory. Im not at all surprised this happend. Have you compared a different set of MA02 / HO-A2 to each other?


----------



## yazkaz

Buck91 said:


> I can say the LF HO-A2 I have is definitely not as bright as the stock A2 bulb despite being rated for significantly more lumens. Not sure how that extrapolates to the P60. It’s not a huge difference in brightness but it’s there to my eye.


The tightness of the hotspot between both brands are different, with LF having a larger but slightly weakened hotspot. Maybe that's why the LF bulb feels a bit less bright?


----------



## ven

yazkaz said:


> One of the basic rules for a Z41 McC mod to work is to have the switch internals installed firmly. In other words, screw the McC and retainer ring in until very snug. Do also take care of the switch boot though, as over-tightening of the switch could warp the boot (if the boot is not aligned properly)
> 
> Also the use of the Z41 stock boot for the McC internals is generally not recommended, as the stock boot cap is shorter than that bundled with the McC (DX soft-press, OR med- or hard-press, LF silicone med-press). If the stock Z41 boot were used the McC actuation cuold be rendered very sensitive.
> 
> BTW on a typical 6P setup any 16650/17670 usage should not require any magnets. The cell itself should provide enough length for effective electrical contact on both springed sides.




Yes thank you, i have been at it a good few years now. My typical 6p set ups are not typical. I have many custom drop ins which can vary in contact length to. Yes of course internals need to be installed firmly, but they can work loose over time with lots of use. Usually when flicker starts its down to something coming loose, i find its usually tail cap internals. Others experience may vary


----------



## bykfixer

It's funny how a few years back in what seems like a few weeks ago we'd just score a Z59 clicky from SureFire or online like Amazon. My first one arrived DOA and after reading Gene Malkoff reccomends a spring stretch it worked. Not convinced it would be uber reliable I kept it in a parts box for years. 

After test driving a C2 with a McClicky I swapped that Z59 onto my favorite 6P, which has an M61WLL in it. I rely on the twisty but there's just something cool about a clicky. And there's just something cool about the SureFire 6P with or without anti-roll head.


----------



## desmobob

desmobob said:


> Thanks for all the tips, folks! I appreciate the help.



I just installed the EDCPlus.com McClicky Z41 switch kit (brass w/medium boot; $11) and it has made a very big change for the better in my 6P's switch ergonomics. The switch now feels like I think SureFire _should _have made it feel. Love it! 

This switch has a much better feeling and flicker-free momentary action, along with a nice clicky action. I would recommend it highly for anyone who feels the original SureFire 6P switch doesn't feel "right" or up to the same standards as the rest of the flashlight.

EDCPlus.com processed and shipped the order very quickly... I ordered it on the 6th and received it today; three days later!

Thanks again for the help!


----------



## Swedpat

Olumin said:


> I don’t have a P60 here to compare. Keep in mind that to my knowledge the P60 is not using standard ANSI lumens. The stock P60 has a claimed output of 65 lumens, not 80. It will probably appear to be a bit more than 65 ANSI lumens to your eyes. The HO-4 should be brighter either way with its claimed 150lm. Lumens factory also has the EO-4 which claims 190lm, which should certainly be brighter than a P60. Keep in mind that the difference between 150 and 190 is not very noticable to the eye. I’d go with the HO-4 for the better runtime.



You are right, I recalled wrong. It's stated 65lm.
I am tempted to get as bright incandescent as possible with the advantage of recheargeable when I can recharge the battery more often. I also consider to get 9V module and place in 9P with extender. 380lm would be nice to have. Or shall I go for 500lm
IMR module? Yes, LF also has a 700lm module. But here I think heat can be an issue...
Anyway I actually have the possibility to get a few of each and try. 

By the way: I compared LF 3,7V 90lm (e-series) module to Surefire P90 with the luxmeter. It actually has around half the brightness as P90(I have compared with full batteries). At least with the modules I compared. P90 is measured to having far above stated 105lm.


----------



## bluemantra

Where is the best place to pickup a 6p original?


----------



## Grijon

bluemantra said:


> Where is the best place to pickup a 6p original?



PM sent.


----------



## fivemega

bluemantra said:


> Where is the best place to pickup a 6p original?



*If you need bored out for 18650 

 This is one of your choices.

This could be another choice.*


----------



## 5S8Zh5

Couldn't resist upgrading my battery to 18650. Thanks *fivemega*.


----------



## bykfixer

Why is the 6P so good? 





Just, because……


----------



## Tusk

bykfixer said:


> Why is the 6P so good?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just, because……



Details on the shiny ones?


----------



## bykfixer

- Top is a round head with a Malkoff M361w, Malkoff tailcap and Elzetta speed clip. It came from a retired LAPD officer. M361w was a group buy here at CPF. 
- Next down is a 2015 6P with Z59 clicky (with shoulder drilled for a wrist strap) and Malkoff M61 WWL. Source was SureFire, Malkoff and Elzetta. 
- Mid way is a pure stuck gun metal version with Elzetta wire wrist strap ring. Source was a CPF member and Elzetta. 
- Next down is a pure stock with a (50 lumen thrower) R60 module. Source was the big 6P dump in 016 where they sold for around $25 at eBay and the R60 from a CPF member. 
- Bottom is a pure stock 6P with coating removed and alluminum was micro abrasive polished and Elzetta wire wrist strap ring. Source was CPF member and Elzetta. 

All fueled by SureFire or Rayovac CR123 primaries. Wrist straps are generic or adjustable from Olight.


----------



## Tusk

bykfixer said:


> - Top is a round head with a Malkoff M361w, Malkoff tailcap and Elzetta speed clip. It came from a retired LAPD officer. M361w was a group buy here at CPF.
> - Next down is a 2015 6P with Z59 clicky (with shoulder drilled for a wrist strap) and Malkoff M61 WWL. Source was SureFire, Malkoff and Elzetta.
> - Mid way is a pure stuck gun metal version with Elzetta wire wrist strap ring. Source was a CPF member and Elzetta.
> - Next down is a pure stock with a (50 lumen thrower) R60 module. Source was the big 6P dump in 016 where they sold for around $25 at eBay and the R60 from a CPF member.
> - Bottom is a pure stock 6P with coating removed and alluminum was micro abrasive polished and Elzetta wire wrist strap ring. Source was CPF member and Elzetta.
> 
> All fueled by SureFire or Rayovac CR123 primaries. Wrist straps are generic or adjustable from Olight.



Thank you. I'm thinking of having one of mine hard chromed and was curious what I was looking at in your picture. That gunmetal looked very chromey!


----------



## kamagong

Anyone have an idea of how many 6Ps were made during their entire run? My newest 6P has a SN of 81****. Maybe a million total?


----------



## bykfixer

It is thought that millions were produced over time. Batches were produced. Some for fulfilling gigantic orders to various militaries around the world and some for general sale. It was not just the US military that bought 6P and other SureFire lights. Turkey, Japan, Germany, South Korea and Isreal among others. 

I don't know for sure but I think I read some batches began with A and when the number reached a point like say 999,999 then letter B would be used. Now one other thing was they were often released out of order. Say a batch of 300k was produced there would be times number 275,000 would be delivered before number 742 simply due to the way the bodies ended up in the assembly line. At least that's what I was told.


----------



## kamagong

That's awesome.


----------



## xavierthebikemessenger

im looking for a titanium head to fit a surefire 6P. can someone point me to the right direction please? any leads would be fully appreciated


----------



## archimedes

xavierthebikemessenger said:


> im looking for a titanium head to fit a surefire 6P. can someone point me to the right direction please? any leads would be fully appreciated



Try checking with TnC


----------



## 3oni

I just picked up a NOS 6P, and having not bought an incan flashlight in many years I'm pleasantly surprised at how great the tint is -- it's really taking me back. 

What a fantastic design overall. I can see why this light made history, and I'm excited to own one.


----------



## bykfixer

This thread seemed lonely so bump time





This one was once removed from the SureFire roster. Yup it sure was. So was the 3P that never returned.

The 6P was brought out of retirement and started an entire industry of copies and improvements




Complete with a radical new "that'll never catch on" anti roll feature.

I think the old one looks kool & the gang but the new one is definitely easier to grip and use.


----------



## muichimon

bykfixer said:


> This thread seemed lonely so bump time
> View attachment 31745
> 
> This one was once removed from the SureFire roster. Yup it sure was. So was the 3P that never returned.
> 
> The 6P was brought out of retirement and started an entire industry of copies and improvements
> View attachment 31750
> 
> Complete with a radical new "that'll never catch on" anti roll feature.
> 
> I think the old one looks kool & the gang but the new one is definitely easier to grip and use.


I still use 6P xenon bulbs.
I like this simple and solid option.


----------



## Megalamuffin

bykfixer said:


> This thread seemed lonely so bump time
> View attachment 31745
> 
> This one was once removed from the SureFire roster. Yup it sure was. So was the 3P that never returned.
> 
> The 6P was brought out of retirement and started an entire industry of copies and improvements
> View attachment 31750
> 
> Complete with a radical new "that'll never catch on" anti roll feature.
> 
> I think the old one looks kool & the gang but the new one is definitely easier to grip and use.



There seem to be two different switches on the old style round body 6p. The shorter, smooth version and a raised textured one. The raised textured one works better. Then the switch was perfected on the later 6p, which is quite a bit longer than the old round body 6p’s, but with that length comes a better switch, a lens and bezel ring that’s user replaceable, plus the anti roll head which was also a great improvement.


----------



## aznsx

You guys are killin'me

I look at the 6P, which I don't own, as being a *lot* like a 1911 (Colt) pistol in many ways. Of the most influential designs, it is the oldest and arguably the most influential. I prefer the P35 (Browning Hi-Power) design, and have more than one, but for a long time never owned a 1911. I finally realized no proper pistol person should be without a 1911, so I eventually bought one (25-30 years ago now), and am glad I did.

At some point when I have some spare change, I'm gonna cop a 6P, and I'll be posting here at CPF for advice on exactly what variant I should get. It's inevitable. No flashlight person should be without a 6P. I'm ashamed I don't have one, and I should be!


----------



## Megalamuffin

aznsx said:


> You guys are killin'me
> 
> I look at the 6P, which I don't own, as being a *lot* like a 1911 (Colt) pistol in many ways. Of the most influential designs, it is the oldest and arguably the most influential. I prefer the P35 (Browning Hi-Power) design, and have more than one, but for a long time never owned a 1911. I finally realized no proper pistol person should be without a 1911, so I eventually bought one (25-30 years ago now), and am glad I did.
> 
> At some point when I have some spare change, I'm gonna cop a 6P, and I'll be posting here at CPF for advice on exactly what variant I should get. It's inevitable. No flashlight person should be without a 6P. I'm ashamed I don't have one, and I should be!



And much like the 1911 being modernized with better sights, extended beavertails and etc. and still competing with newer handgun designs, the 6p and similar surefires can also be modernized with led drop in's, lithium ion batteries and the like and still compete with newer lights.


----------



## SMar

All of my 6Ps are the newer, later production ones but none of my M1911s have the new fangled A1 features introduced in 1924!


----------



## bykfixer

Like the 1911 the 6P changed the game no doubt AZ. 
Streamlight tried with a TL-2 and TL-2 shockproof, Penaton did eX2 and Pelican the M6 2320. But not one could rival it, although if Pelican had not used such a delicate switch......but none had the P60. Without the P60 it would have been just another little flashlight run off camera batteries.

I really liked the smaller-lighter TL-2 shockproof and the ability to actually focus the beam but that was more of a novelty than benefit. It was kinda like outfitting the Colt 1911 with a 22 barrel for target practicing.


----------



## jz6342

The 6P was my first “tactical“ light. I remember paying the princely sum of 60 bucks (without batteries) and getting what, at that time, was the brightest and smallest flashlight I’d ever owned. I carried it on my duty belt until I retired and it followed me to many protective details after that. I upgraded the bulb to LED some time around 2010 and passed it onto a friend who was still in the business. It’s still on his belt today.


----------



## bykfixer

jz6342 said:


> The 6P was my first “tactical“ light. I remember paying the princely sum of 60 bucks (without batteries) and getting what, at that time, was the brightest and smallest flashlight I’d ever owned. I carried it on my duty belt until I retired and it followed me to many protective details after that. I upgraded the bulb to LED some time around 2010 and passed it onto a friend who was still in the business. It’s still on his belt today.


In about 2015 in a 1 horse town I was working in a police office was sitting in a parking lot one morning and I walked up and asked "what flashlight do you use sir?" He pulls out an incan SL20 and shines it in my eyes. "Good grief" I said. He said "eh some day I'll get one of those new fangled LED numbers." Meanwhile another officer, a young man approaches and asked what was up. The more seasoned officer told him what we were talking about and zaps me in the eyes again. The young guys says "pft that's nothing" pulls out his 6P and says "check this out". I turned his way and "zap" he hits my eyes with a 6P beam from 5 feet away. I'm like "dammit guys that aint funny" but they sure thought it was.

Keep in mind this was in a white concrete parking lot, mid-day on a sunny day so my pupils were probably small as dust specks. I went home that day and ordered a 6P online. Now that made in 2014 one has a double low warm Malkoff module in it and a SureFire clicker tailcap. But I also keep a couple of stock ones from around 2009 from an eBay purchase where there was a sudden influx of hundreds of them from $25 to $35.


----------



## flashfan

I guess I'm one of a minority that never was a fan of the 6P. For the two-cell configuration, the SF E2 was the winner. That being said, I really liked SF's line of 3-cell lights. I kept waiting for SF to bring out a 3-cell E-series light, but as far as I know, they never did.


----------



## tech25

I think the draw of the 6p is that it’s so modular. The E2 is my favorite as well but for quick and easy upgrades the 6p wins hands down.


----------



## bykfixer

When I got my first E2 I definitely understood the alure. I imagined what people must have thought when they were a new product on the market. Oh my. 
Yet there was something about the anti-roll version of the 6P I just prefer. I think it's something gripping a tennis racket versus a golf club. My hand fits the tennis racket better.


----------



## kerneldrop

anyone can use it....not a complicated interface. 
Can change it up just about any way imaginable


----------



## fivemega

*Good thing about both 6P and E2 is that still can find custom made parts such as 1x18350, 1x18500, 1x18650, 2x18350, 3x18350, and extender bodies for longer batteries.
Can also find 26xxx bodies for longer run time.
With more search you will find custom tail caps and bezels.*


----------



## Lucky Jim

It’s a very versatile platform. I’ve got three in use at present. One old school 6P (with old school case!), a 6P Defender with a Malkoff M60 and really solid (Solarforce) belt clip, and a newer 6P with an LED drop-in and a Surefire tape switch from the old 3P style weapon light.


----------



## sween1911

One thing I'll always remember about the 6P when I finally got to handle one in person was the momentary tailcap. How many people pressed it thinking it was a clickie and recoiled in horror when it didn't stay on... "I BROKE IT!" only to eventually discover the manual of arms for a Surefire lock out tailcap. It was something of a badge of honor in the Surefire heyday to know who you could hand your Surefire to. People would press it and release it and look at it like it was broken. Some people didn't (and still don't) get it.


----------



## bykfixer

I really liked the idea of the reliability of the momentary tailcap. But I also liked you could buy a Z49 clicky tailcap from SureFire when my first 6P arrived.... as a bonus a Malkoff tailcap works and allows it to tailstand too if you like that sort of thing.


----------



## aznsx

sween1911 said:


> One thing I'll always remember about the 6P when I finally got to handle one in person was the momentary tailcap. How many people pressed it thinking it was a clickie and recoiled in horror when it didn't stay on... "I BROKE IT!" only to eventually discover the manual of arms for a Surefire lock out tailcap. It was something of a badge of honor in the Surefire heyday to know who you could hand your Surefire to. People would press it and release it and look at it like it was broken. Some people didn't (and still don't) get it.


15 years ago I was working in industrial environments surrounded by people who regularly needed to see things well, but none of whom had a light up to the task. Having seen my light, I was constantly being asked 'can I use your light a second'. At the time I was using SL Scorpions, and many had never even used a tailcap PB switch. When I switched to my wonderful Strion incan (which was a momentary only PB), I didn't even bother to find out. (It didn't bother me, as I used momentary ~9X% of the time.) It became totally automatic for me to grab it out of the holster, turn it on, and hand it to them tail first - all in one continuous motion. I did it (all night long) without even thinking. 

The momentary-only PB is understandably unintuitive for most humans, although both SF and SL were at the time of that school of thought, and with valid reason. Since then, SL and others have moved on, having optimized the 2-stage progressive momentary / alternate action maintained-on switch sufficiently to satisfy most users (including me), but I guess SF has largely stuck with the momentary-only thing to this day(?). I wasn't even aware that the original 6Ps were momentary-only. I had assumed they were like my Scorps.


----------



## bykfixer

The scorpion was streamlights answer to the 6p AZ. Streamlight was nearly ready to fold after losing a patent infringement suit to Maglite for (of all things) stamping the bezel ring on the excalibre flashlight. Yup ole Tony Maglica had patented that idea. 

The scorpion was made to compete with the 6p and a government contract was awarded to Streamlight, which provided enough capital for them to keep going. 

Early Pelican M6 and Pentagon X series lights were also momentary like the 6p at first.


----------



## Monocrom

bykfixer said:


> Early Pelican M6 and Pentagon X series lights were also momentary like the 6p at first.


Unfortunately, the M6 had build quality issues, and Pelican greatly exaggerated what it was capable of (and I mean beyond what is considered acceptable as far as lumens numbers go).

Pentagon was sued out of existence by SureFire. Their hand-helds were nothing too special. (Still have a couple of them kicking about.) But their weapon-lights were eating into SF sales.

What bothers me is that Surefire never won their case against Pentagon. No they simply used the court system as their "Working Girl" to get what they wanted. Judge agreed with SF's lawyers that even though PL wasn't found guilty of anything, the company had to stop selling it's lights until the case was over. Translation = No money coming in to help PL actually fight the allegations. So, despite not actually having won their case, in a sickening way; SF got what it wanted as PL couldn't financially fight to clear their good name.


----------



## bykfixer

SureFire had a lawyer team on staff for various reasons. When word got back to owner Dr Matthews that a company was competing for government contracts using patended ideas by SureFire without SureFire permision it has been said Dr Matthews asked the lawyers for their opinion. At first the lawyers said "do nothing at this point". Then when it was learned the Molle was not made from American stuff and Pentagon had won a contract requiring products supplied to the gubment had to be 100% American stuff the lawyers decided it was time to bring a suit against Pentagon for patent infringement and making false statements.

When the suit was settled in SureFire's favor Dr Matthews and Pentagon agreed they would no longer supply lights to the gubment. That decision broke the back of Pentagon financially because they had invested a bunch of money into producing products for the gubment contracts. When they were not allowed to sell product to the gubment and frankly their product wasn't appealing to the masses they could not recover. Pentagon was not playing the long game. And if you go back and read user input here at CPF it was clear their products were deemed decent at best. Machine flaws, dry threads, durability problems etc, they never achieved a "good name".

Back then if not for gubment contracts SureFire would not have been profitable either. They had not reached the popularity they eventually reached during the later PK years. And because Pentagon had produced so much product for said contracts their product can still be found in new, unopened packages to this day.

Pelican was sharing parts with Pentagon. Light modules, and switches are directly swappable. Many of the threads are same as well. Issues with Pelican products are largely the same that would have eventually been a plague to the Pentagon reputation had they continued.


----------



## Monocrom

SureFire used the court system the way a John uses a Working girl. 
The fact of the matter is, a judgement against PL was never reached. Just allegations that SureFire had not proven in court. All they managed to do was get the judge to side with them. And, they got what they wanted. It was obscene, and quite frankly the judge should be disbarred.


----------



## bykfixer

So you don't think when somebody steals your idea to compete against you then lie about the products thry provide to compete using cheap replacements of the expensive parts they should be punished?

To say "they used the courts like a john does a working girl" shows a complete misunderstanding of what really happened. SureFire didn't have to win, they just needed the company lieing and stealing to compete against them to stop lieing and stealing to compete against them. And so it was. They probably would have won btw but the owner of SureFire offered to settle before a decision was reached. A decision Pentagon agreed to. They knew they were caught and happily agreed to settle and not face large fines too.

It's why there's patents in the first place and why the Made in America clause was in the contracts both strived to win. Streamlight competed and won some contracts too, but they didn't lie and steal ideas in order to gain the contract. They built better pistol lights than SureFire using their own ideas.

I'm a fan of Pentagon products. I own way more Pentagon products than SureFire but I also understand Pentagon screwed themselves by going the low road for quick profits from a rival company. And they got their arse kicked for it.


----------



## Monocrom

My main point is this, when SureFire initiated the lawsuit against Pentagon Lights; they hadn't proven a thing. Lawsuits take time to progress forward. I think we can both agree on that. In civil suits, the attorneys from both sides get a chance to present their evidence, and argue their points before an impartial judge. Again, takes time. During all that time, attorneys need to be paid. Not just attorneys, but the various employees at the different law firms who do the grunt work of receiving and organizing every piece of evidence that the attorneys present in court. 

My issue is, _before_ all of the evidence could be presented and looked at by the judge; SureFire's attorneys filled a motion to prevent Pentagon Lights from being able to continue to sell to their products. And the judge said "Yes" to that. In essence, completely financially crippling PL from being able to pay their attorneys to fight SF's claims. SureFire got exactly what they wanted _before_ all of the evidence could be presented. They got a defacto victory _before_ actually winning their lawsuit! What the judge did was a procedural mishandling of the case. It was actually disgustingly obscene because the judge was clearly biased. 

My issue isn't regarding PL's actual guilt or innocence. My issue is that SureFire used the court as their "Working girl" to get what they wanted. (Although honestly there's another world beginning with *W* that would be far more appropriate.) And bizarrely, the judge allowed it! 

Instead of saying something along the lines of, _"Hold on. You haven't proven your case, yet. Among other things, you're claiming that this company has stolen your intellectual property and is using it to sell its products. That's what you're claiming. And, you'll have an opportunity to present your evidence. Once presented, if your claims are found to be true, I'll grant the injunction. But as of right now, you haven't proven anything to this court." _The judge simply said,_ "Okie dokie!"_

Judge should be disbarred over his horrendous procedural misconduct. That's the huge issue I have with the lawsuit. Unable to pay its attorneys, the only smart move by PL was to agree to a settlement. Imagine if the rest of the Justice System worked that way? Sue someone you don't like, you have massive amounts of more money then they do, get your lawyers to freeze their assets so they have to surrender. Have to settle. Their guilt or innocence isn't even an issue at that point. Wage your War of Attrition. Still counts as a victory! So what if it's a disgustingly obscene way of doing things. A win is still a win. Of course it is.


----------



## bykfixer

I completely disagree. I think the court did exactly what it was supposed to do given the circumstances. It was not some simple "sue somebody you don't like" act. It was something along the lines of Ford putting a Chevy engine in a car, calling it a Chevy, and winning NASCAR races with it. And Chevy showing pictures of their engines inside of Ford cars to a judge and asking the judge to make them stop. Of course the judge would say "hey Ford, stop making cars like that" until Ford could prove they weren't actually Chevy engines.


----------



## Monocrom

I'm sorry but you missed the point completely. You can't just say, well; now that the trial is over and all of the evidence has come out. We KNOW that Ford was guilty of putting Chevy engines into its vehicles. So.... The horrendous procedural misconduct by the judge was perfectly okay! No. No it's not! 

Yes, evidence and guilt are important. No denying that! However, while a trial is _occurring_ and the judge himself has not seen all the evidence, and guilt or innocence therefore hasn't been determined; proper judicial procedure *must* be adhered to. Otherwise, if it's not (and clearly in the SF vs. PL case, it wasn't) the people are going to lose faith in the system. Why even bother showing up to court if you know you're not going to get a fair hearing that is going to be conducted in a proper way, with your attorneys being able to get your side heard and considered? 

If we're talking one individual suing a neighbor in civil court, the one being sued could easily decide _"Screw it! I'm going to go hold court in the street, and take care of this myself!"_ Grabs a gun or a baseball bat and goes over to his neighbor's house for something other than a conversation. People need to have faith in the civil court system to help resolve disputes in a civilized manner. They lose that faith, you're going to get chaos. 

Honestly, it just seems as though you're excusing the horrendous procedural misconduct, solely because evidence existed proving PL's guilt. Again, undetermined during the start of the case. I've made my point and can't expand upon it further. I'm going to hit the railroad switch and set this train back on track before it veers closer to getting derailed.


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## bykfixer

When somebody steals your idea, lies about it and takes your job because of it you may not feel that way.

The 6P was a great flashlight, simply because.


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## Tempest UK

Still rocking the 6P. This one has a few character marks but it's a long way off reaching retirement yet.


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