# * Arc-LS



## Gransee (Feb 28, 2002)

Welcome to the Arc-LS general discussion thread. 

The Arc-LS is the largest flashlight produced by Arc Flashlight and is powered by the new Luxeon Star LED emitter from Lumileds.







More info on the Arc-LS.


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## Carpe Diem (Feb 28, 2002)

Hi Peter...

My white Arc LS`s continue to impress me every day, and an LS will forever be a part of my EDC.

I`m looking forward to getting my "wife`s order" so that I (...I mean "we") can see what the cyan LS is like!

Thanks!

PS: "She" has reservation/order number 920.


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## PhilAlex (Mar 1, 2002)

Okay, so here's the question:

When's the ARC-LS gonna be available?


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## MarcV (Mar 1, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PhilAlex:
*
When's the ARC-LS gonna be available?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think he said March or April, but I forgot to note the year (or he didn't specify a year).


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## Graham (Mar 1, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc Veeneman:
*
I think he said March or April, but I forgot to note the year (or he didn't specify a year). 



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Noooo... don't say things like that!!





I'll get my Arc LS soon...must think positive, must think positive, must think positive..








Graham


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## SFR (Mar 5, 2002)

Which is brighter: a Surefire E1 or an LS w/ the 123 battery compartment?


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## Gransee (Mar 5, 2002)

The incandescent produces 1 or 2 more lumens from what I understand.

Peter


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## geepondy (Mar 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SFR:
*Which is brighter: a Surefire E1 or an LS w/ the 123 battery compartment?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can check again but I believe the E1 by just a small margin. I compared them when I first got my Arc LS. The E1 has a brighter hotspot and the ability to "throw" more and it probably produces slightly more total light output. But the Arc's light is more dispersed although not nearly as much as a Nichia light, so much more pleasing to the eye then the E1 and I think a far more functional near/medium task light. The only thing I like better about the E1 is that it has a tail cap switch.


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## BuddTX (Mar 5, 2002)

What is on the left and what is on the right?

Thanks for the pic's!


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 5, 2002)

Sorry... ARC LS on the left....E1 on the right


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## geepondy (Mar 5, 2002)

The pictures look about same as my comparisions. Mr. Bear, didn't you say the Surefire L1 was brighter then the Arc LS?


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 5, 2002)

Geepondy

I elluded to manufactures specs that SF rates the E1 at 15 lumens. Further, as ARC has no published lumen output for the Luxeon Star, the only comparable Luxeion Star is the SureFire L1. Last Friday on a my "field trip' to SureFire, I compared the ARC to the L1, and the L1 meaasured appx 2200 lux, and the ARC 1700 lux at a distance of 1 foot from the sensor. SureFire has stated the output of the L1 as being 13 lumens*

I need to qualify thses numbers... 
1) have gotten slightly higher readings with the ARC with brand new batteries
2) I do not know the nature of the L1 that PK showed me*

The thing about the digital lights from SF is that, for lack of a better word, they are "programable". In simple words, if SF wants to have a higher output, they just program the circuit for shorter run time. The converse is also true, lower output would result in a longer run time. Pk did tell me that they had LS than ran over 5 hours, but did not mention the lumen output. He also said they could achieve the 18 lumens output, but with signigficant thermal run away issues, and I am sure, a much reduced run time.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SFR:
*Which is brighter: a Surefire E1 or an LS w/ the 123 battery compartment?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you go strickly by the numbers, the E1 is 15 lumens. ARC doesn't publish the lumen output fot the LS, but I can tell you that is similar to the Surefire L1 (I compared the two last Friday). Surefire says the L1 has a 13 lumen output. But why talk numbers... here is side by side pics at a distance of 10 at different exposure levels


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## Brock (Mar 7, 2002)

Wow, I know I got to see and test the prototype, but I have to say again that I am impressed with this light. I did some re-testing of unit #140 (ver .9) and got slightly higher output then the proto I had. The finish on the light itself is very nice, very much up to the "Surefire" quality of craftsmanship.

So Ted is your the #140 or the #146 I have? I am amazed on the difference between the 2 heads.

David which of these two is the more common one? The 140 has the more common Nichia color, sort of purplish, and the 146 has a very white color to it. The 146 is noticeably dimmer though.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 7, 2002)

Brock,

Please clarify #140 or #146... I am not sure what your are in reference to. I have two ARC-LS's ... SN#003 and SN#004... so I guess that means I have the old optics.


When Peter did the first few, the "new optics" were not yet available. If I am not mistaken, his next run will have the "new" optics, as does the SureFire L1/L2 and the KL1 and KL3 modules


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## Brock (Mar 7, 2002)

Woops. Ted I though one of these was yours for me to look at, I guess not.

The beams on both of these units are MUCH smoother then the prototype beams. I could definitely live with this light.


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## Gransee (Mar 7, 2002)

140 and 146 are the ones I sent to you for testing. 146 is courtesty of Ted. Both are 0.9 units and have older optics. 140 is brighter but that is probally because the phosphor is thinner. It was returned by a CPF'er because the beam was, "too violet". It has been my EDC for a couple of weeks now and I sent it to you for comparison. 

Ted returned 146 because it was bottoming out with the quest NiMh (included). I swapped out the battery compartment and you'll notice it works better now.

I would like to send you and the other testers 1.0 units probally in May or June for more tests.

So what do you think?

Looking to post an update on the current LS production this weekend.

Peter Gransee


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## Graham (Mar 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
Looking to post an update on the current LS production this weekend.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooh...good news I hope..
Not getting my Arc LS yet is costing me too much, I keep buying other stuff to compensate.. 
Then again, I probably would've bought the other stuff anyway





Graham


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## geepondy (Mar 8, 2002)

Curious about your "coupon" offer concerning the Arc LS for us so called beta testers.


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## geepondy (Mar 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*Ooh...good news I hope..
Not getting my Arc LS yet is costing me too much, I keep buying other stuff to compensate.. 
Then again, I probably would've bought the other stuff anyway




Graham*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bought the Inova X5 as a holdover until my Arc LS arrived and the X5 is a fine light. Certainly one of my favorite Nichia LED lights. The Arc LS however is in another class. It competes with my incandescents for certain applications. I can understand what you mean about the costs though. My internal reasoning is that the Arc LS will be an LED light to last a lifetime (but aren't they all). In truth though, it will only be my number one LED light until a more powerful LED light arrives. At least owning high end LED lights is not yet as expensive as trying to keep your computer up to date.


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## txwest (Mar 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*Ooh...good news I hope..
Not getting my Arc LS yet is costing me too much, I keep buying other stuff to compensate.. 
Then again, I probably would've bought the other stuff anyway






Graham*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Graham, you never *actually* believed you'ld stop buying lights just because you get the LS, did you???









TX


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
*Woops. Ted I though one of these was yours for me to look at, I guess not.
The beams on both of these units are MUCH smoother then the prototype beams. I could definitely live with this light.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yup, ser.#146 is from moi; Ted the Led



!
It is a nice smooth white - I don't know what people are talking about -- 'violet tints'? 
Just send it back to Mr.Gransee when you're done, and hopefully Peter will send me my new, much brighter, LS, hopefully very soon after he sends Gandalf (the whiner



) _his._


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## Gransee (Mar 8, 2002)

*LS Update*

Ah, the March production run of Arc-LSs is finally producing finished units! 











The first 60 or so of these will have the old style lens, the new emitters, new knurl, new threads, improved anodize and chemfilm (a result of fourth gen masking), new retainers (third gen, even newer than the ones sent out as replacments) and improved centering and waterproofing.

The units after the 60 or so will have the new NX-05 optics. These are slightly less efficient (~5%), but produce a smoother beam and will be the standard optic for all colors from here on out.

The new centering tool is working out and we are now able to make a noticable improvement in centering. The orginal optic versions still have the warm corona and the NX-05 units have a smoother beam.

Known issues with this run are the few units with the older optics, bigger anodize tint mismatch than I care, problems with some 123 brand batteries.

It looks like we might ship some of the back orders this month after all! The units will be finishing up and testing for about 2 more weeks and then *maybe* start shipping.

The March production run is for version 1.0 units (both optic designs).

*Please Note!!! *_The March production run is going to be shipped to people with back orders only! We are not taking new orders until April._

*Beta Offer*

This offer is for 0.9 units only. If you have an LS and it shipped before March, it is probally an 0.9 unit. These are beta units and we are offering a "thank you" coupon of $30 good towards any Arc website purchase.

You may also return the unit for a 1.0 version but then you are not eligible for the coupon and you will no longer hold a "beta unit". Either way, you have our thanks for your valuable input and real world testing.

Using this coupon is very easy, simply place an order from our website and in the field for coupon code, enter, "lscoupon-1". We will check your order to see if you are a 0.9 holder before we ship the order and approve the coupon.

Peter Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 8, 2002)

Whoa, I see about $5000.00 worth of LS flashlights in that picture.


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:


*Beta Offer*

This offer is for 0.9 units only. If you have an LS and it shipped before March, it is probally an 0.9 unit. These are beta units and we are offering a "thank you" coupon of $30 good towards any Arc website purchase.

You may also return the unit for a 1.0 version but then you are not eligible for the coupon and you will no longer hold a "beta unit". Either way, you have our thanks for your valuable input and real world testing.

Peter Gransee<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, Peter, for this more than fair and truly gracious offer. I`ll personally wait to see how much difference there really is in the units.

BTW, can you give us an estimate on how many beta units were sent out and that are now in the hands of the lucky recipients?

Thanks.


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## geepondy (Mar 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
[QB 
*Beta Offer*

This offer is for 0.9 units only. If you have an LS and it shipped before March, it is probally an 0.9 unit. These are beta units and we are offering a "thank you" coupon of $30 good towards any Arc website purchase.

You may also return the unit for a 1.0 version but then you are not eligible for the coupon and you will no longer hold a "beta unit". Either way, you have our thanks for your valuable input and real world testing.

Using this coupon is very easy, simply place an order from our website and in the field for coupon code, enter, "lscoupon-1". We will check your order to see if you are a 0.9 holder before we ship the order and approve the coupon.
Peter Gransee[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter, I ordered my LS thru the factory so redeeming it shouldn't be a problem but what about the people who bought their 0.9 LS thru TTS(or other distributors if applicable)? Does the coupon offer apply to them as well? If so, how will they redeem it? You won't have the records of the individual sale on file when they go to place an order.

Also, I know you have touched upon the subject before, buried deep within one or more of the Arc threads, but do you have any rough ideas when a higher powered Luxeon will be available for the LS?


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## MY (Mar 9, 2002)

Mr. Gransee:

For those of us who are beta holders and decide to take you up on your trade-in offer, when are the replacements available? If I send in my beta LS now, where will I be in the que for replacement? I don't want to send in my beta and not get a replacement for several months. While my beta still is functioning, it is certainly better than nothing and I don't want to be without a LS light for a long time. 

Your trade-in offer is most generous and a well conceived marketing decision.

Regards.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
*Peter, I ordered my LS thru the factory so redeeming it shouldn't be a problem but what about the people who bought their 0.9 LS thru TTS(or other distributors if applicable)? Does the coupon offer apply to them as well? If so, how will they redeem it? You won't have the records of the individual sale on file when they go to place an order.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I *am* in that position (getting a .9 LS from TTS). My guess is Peter will use the records of who they shipped replacement 123 foam ring/thingees to.

Unfortunately, that wouldn't include me, because mine worked fine right out of the bag (mine was one of last of the .9 LS's shipped, so it may have already had the improved version).

And I'm quite pleased with it (don't want to do an exchange), so a coupon would be very nice...


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## Graham (Mar 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*LS Update

Ah, the March production run of Arc-LSs is finally producing finished units! 

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh-boy oh-boy oh-boy oh-boy oh-boy oh-boy oh-boy oh-boy...
(stops to wipe drool off keyboard..)

Wow, hope a couple of those 2AA battery holders have my name on them..

Peter, so will coloured LS units (Cyan, please please please please..) be shipping too?

Graham 
(maniacally checking his mail every minute, hoping to see that "The following items have been shipped.." email soon..)


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## Quickbeam (Mar 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would like to send you and the other testers 1.0 units probally in May or June for more tests.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looking forward to it, Peter! I can't wait to put that little critter "through the ringer"!


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## Gransee (Mar 11, 2002)

Wew, just got back from the LS assembly line today. Even with the centering tool and other improvements, our stricter QC standards are give us really low yields from this run. I hope we have enough to fulfill most of the back orders.

Right now, I am seeing maybe one good flashlight out of 5-7 finished units. The LED tint is all over the place (and these where on the same reel!). Some of the whites are yellowish, greenish, blueish, etc. The centering tool broke and it wasn't producing perfectly centered parts anyways. The new retainers still don't work with SF 123's. We can't use a large amount of our finished lens collars because they don't fit the new NX-05 optic. There are going to be large gaps in the serial numbers.

It is a monday..

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 11, 2002)

Taker easy Peter, slow and steady still gets there! 
Reading about the retainer problem...you know I posted some what I thought might be solutions, including putting the gold screening over the top of the foam, so it would flex as the battery hit it...The way that spring-loaded plunger rod works on the InovaX-5 is pretty neat..just like the tiny 'spring-bar' in a watch band, you know the part ? Maybe something like that would fit in the Arc? just guessin'...have a good one!


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## Alexis (Mar 11, 2002)

Peter, 

I know you have said in the past that you don't want to sell anything but the first quality products, let me tell you that there is a market for b stock lights. 

I'm sure many CPF members would love to have an LS with an off centered lens, poor color rendition, in each of my glove compartments. It wouldn't be the best everyday light, but it would be one of the best emergency lights, especially with Li batteries. Maybe have a utility version and an "executive" version...


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## Mr. Blue (Mar 12, 2002)

Peter...maybe mark the problem ones somehow, to protect you from future returns, and sell them at a discount so you don't take too huge a financial hit. I am calling in April with my order, so I am in for the long haul.


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## Forge (Mar 12, 2002)

Gransee, do you know when in April you'll start taking orders for the LS once again?


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## Gransee (Mar 12, 2002)

OK, quick post here...

- New beefier centering tool being developed
- Old centering tool being repaired
- Yes, we will be selling factory seconds to try to recoup some of the LS dev costs.
- Testing the quest nimh 123's on the LS with good results
- Tried unsuccessfully to make SF 123's work with any retainer design. Those batts will not be recommended until a later revision.
- New orders for LS is delayed to May or June because of the low yields. It will take longer to fullfill back orders.
- When new orders do finally start, price will be much increased.

Peter


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 12, 2002)

Peter...keep the faith!

We certainly will.

Continued best wishes to you on the LS project.


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## vcal (Mar 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
- Yes, we will be selling factory seconds to try to recoup *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mr. G; Please put me down for a single "AA" version if the defects are only cosmetic, but the illumination is not affected.


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## LEDagent (Mar 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
- When new orders do finally start, price will be much increased.

Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>







That's too bad. How much though Peter? I'll tell you right now, i'd be willing to pay for an LS head and 1 battery compartment for no more than a hundred dollars. I hope it won't be more than that. 

But keep pushing on, what you are doing is undoubtably frustrating at this point i bet. However, the end product will be what EVERYONE wants. Now what company has that kind customer relations? SureFire?.....Exactly.


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## Forge (Mar 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*- New orders for LS is delayed to May or June because of the low yields. It will take longer to fullfill back orders.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ack!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*
- When new orders do finally start, price will be much increased.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ACK!

Gulp! Like how much Gransee?


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## napalm-2002 (Mar 13, 2002)

hey Peter

i'll take a factory second.
i really dont care which batt back or color 

just gimme an idea of the price and what you got availible!


PLEASE


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## The_LED_Museum (Mar 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*OK, quick post here...

- Tried unsuccessfully to make SF 123's work with any retainer design. Those batts will not be recommended until a later revision. 
Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What is causing this battery to not work in the current Arc LS?? They work fine in my prototype, same as any other 123 I've put in it.


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## Gransee (Mar 13, 2002)

Here's the new pricing for the LS:

Factory Firsts w/10yr warranty: $160 (kit)
Factory Seconds ("As Is"): $70 (kit)

Seconds will be sold as kits only. 

When the firsts go on sale, you will be able to buy them as kits or as seperate pieces.

The price and invoice amount of our current back orders (web and dealer) are not affected. These new prices are for new orders only.


Peter Gransee


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## One001 (Mar 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
We will be selling LS factory seconds and thirds (?) soon. I fought this for as long as possible but we need to recoup some costs here. Also, we have tightened the QC down on the LS production greatly. Units that could have been acceptable as 0.9 versions will not ship as factory firsts now. This policy has created a lot of seconds, many times what we had on the first run. This is part of our new realistic look at the LS product. Factory firsts *will* confirm to higher standards of quality. As a result, all the 1.0 units with old optics are being bumped to the "factory second" rating. Only units with the new NX-05 optics will be rated as 1.0 factory firsts and then only if they pass the other QC requirments.

Factory firsts will be 1.0 versions with NX-05 optics. They will not be perfect, but they will be better than they have been. They also will be *very* few in number. About 1/6 of what we expected to ship this month. 

*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smart move, Peter, to segregate your output this way. The seconds and thirds will satisfy a certain market segment, while the firsts will be for those who are expecting the best. You are right to have all firsts contain the new NX-05 optics, anything else and you would risk disappointing those expecting a first. Certainly no harm selling old optics as seconds though, and certainly there will be considerable demand to take advantage of them at the price break you are giving, plus presumably that they will be available for order almost right away. No disappointement either on receipt because what you are being shipped is exactly what you are expecting to get - not perfect, but a totally usable light. Want the best - pay the premium, and you will make sure they get the best. Want something cheaper and right away - go for a second. Personally though, I would only go for the best, at least for my primary unit



.


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## Lonewolf (Mar 13, 2002)

$160 for a kit is a little steep for me. I will probably just buy the KL1 when SF has them available. I already have a E1 and an E2e so I could use it with either.


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 13, 2002)

5by5

I think the 160 is msrp. i would bet they will be less from one of the ARC delaers. the other thing is, I would doubt this goes into effect today, but rather later on

my two lumens


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## aso (Mar 13, 2002)

Peter

Will the 1.0 units be serialized as originally planned?


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## Lonewolf (Mar 13, 2002)

Mr Ted Bear Peter says: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> The price and invoice amount of our current back orders (web and dealer) are not affected. These new prices are for new orders only.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if you don't have one on backorder than it will cost you $160. That is the way I read it.


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## Gransee (Mar 14, 2002)

The retainer is not allowing the positive nipple of the SF 123 to contact the PCB. It would work if you removed the retainer, but then your batteries would rattle.

We are working on a long term solution but it will not be done until probally the end of the year.

Peter


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## Gransee (Mar 14, 2002)

Bumped the new order date to August on the website today. Still working on fulfilling as many backorders as possible this month.

I stepped back this week and took a long hard look at our LS production. We are married to this LED for better or worse and we will make it work. I think 6months from now we will look back and be glad we took this route, but it will be a tough 6 months to travel even so. To make this product work, we need to be as realistic as possible. Even harshly realistic. We are going to push back delivery dates to give us the time to do this right without being pressured. Also, we simply will not be taking new orders for some time. And when we do, the price will be much more. How much? Don't have a figure yet but it will be high enough to reduce the demand for the product while we get our production under control.

One bright star is our standard Arc-AAA product. Inventory is dependable, the product is refined, pricing is good, dealers are happy. We will get the LS to that point, it will take most of this year though.

We will be selling LS factory seconds and thirds (?) soon. I fought this for as long as possible but we need to recoup some costs here. Also, we have tightened the QC down on the LS production greatly. Units that could have been acceptable as 0.9 versions will not ship as factory firsts now. This policy has created a lot of seconds, many times what we had on the first run. This is part of our new realistic look at the LS product. Factory firsts *will* confirm to higher standards of quality. As a result, all the 1.0 units with old optics are being bumped to the "factory second" rating. Only units with the new NX-05 optics will be rated as 1.0 factory firsts and then only if they pass the other QC requirments.

Factory firsts will be 1.0 versions with NX-05 optics. They will not be perfect, but they will be better than they have been. They also will be *very* few in number. About 1/6 of what we expected to ship this month. 

Known issues on the firsts have been reduced to HA tint variations, minimized LED tint variations and some battery brands not working.

If you have an order for an LS in back order, you can switch it to a second if you want or hold out for a first.

Seconds will be sold "As is" and tested to light up before they go out the door. Their biggest fault will be off centered beams and gross tint variations. They will have serial numbers because they where orginaly built to be 1.0 units. Do not buy these if you can't stand beam variations!!! Dim or no output units will be scrapped.

Peter "hello real world" Gransee


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*OK, quick post here...
- Testing the quest nimh 123's on the LS with good results
Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...I know that must be typo, but you meant quest nimh aa battery, right?


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## Gransee (Mar 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
*



...I know that must be typo, but you meant quest nimh aa battery, right?

Click to expand...

*


> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
> 
> No typo Ted, it's the Quest NiMH rechargable 123s. They produce about 2.8v, last for about 20 minutes in the LS and recharge in about 1 hour. Brightness is between the 1AA and 123 lithium packs (closer to the lithium).
> 
> ...


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## LEDagent (Mar 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*
Factory Firsts w/10yr warranty: $160 (kit)
Factory Seconds ("As Is"): $70 (kit)
Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! The Factory Firsts is pretty steep at 160 dollars. BUT looking at the price of Factory seconds is pretty tempting. Even with the flaws, i'll take a factory second; But what exactly makes it flawed compared to the "Firsts" - other than beam centering and battery options? 

I mean, no light is PERFECT, not even a Surefire (Lamps, 10x, 8NX



)..and look how much we have to pay for those. LEDs in general have a very diffuse light anyway, so i don't think i would be THAT critical about it's beam centering...and my specific purpose does not require LEDs to cast a long beam, just a constantly bright and long lasting one. The issue with SF123's is not a big deal for me becuase I don't use them - and i can't find em anywhere near me. But i can see how it can be a problem for you die-hard SF users who demand nothing but SF123s. But anywho...just as long as they work on Duracells, Energizers, and Sanyo's, then the factory second lights are FINE BY ME!

Boy...$70.00 for an LS kit? NICE! Hey Gransee, can you give a short and "to the point" discription of the differences between the Factory 1st and 2nd? I'm gonna bet that the current flaws aren't really that big of a deal...for ME anyway.





P.S. Hey Peter, do you think that releasing the LS this quickly and this soon, was a bad move for the company? Or do you think that Quality Control would have never improved if it wasn't for the early release of the LS? I'm no business guy or anything, but looking at how much resources was put into the first lights...and then having to redo them again, seems like it put a heavy burden on the company. Generally though, Peter, how are you feeling at this point, and how is the company doin in the big picture? I'm concerned...should i be?

Take care, and take it easy.
-Laurence

P.S.S. - my dad use to say these quirky things, and here's one of em: "Take your time, but hurry up!"


----------



## Gransee (Mar 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
*..<snipped>...

Boy...$70.00 for an LS kit? NICE! Hey Gransee, can you give a short and "to the point" discription of the differences between the Factory 1st and 2nd? I'm gonna bet that the current flaws aren't really that big of a deal...for ME anyway.





P.S. Hey Peter, do you think that releasing the LS this quickly and this soon, was a bad move for the company? Or do you think that Quality Control would have never improved if it wasn't for the early release of the LS? I'm no business guy or anything, but looking at how much resources was put into the first lights...and then having to redo them again, seems like it put a heavy burden on the company. Generally though, Peter, how are you feeling at this point, and how is the company doin in the big picture? I'm concerned...should i be?

Take care, and take it easy.
-Laurence

P.S.S. - my dad use to say these quirky things, and here's one of em: "Take your time, but hurry up!"






*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have about 40 "seconds" so far and zero "firsts". The firsts and seconds are actually fairly close in appearance and operation. The actual difference is subtle and has mostly to do with the quality of the beam. All that may seperate a first and second is the beam being off 2 degrees or the tint being too green or violet.

That's not to say that the "firsts" will not have some green or violet leanings, we have to draw the line somehwere. Like with our Arc-AAA LEs, the B1 tint is "less blue". There is still a blue spike in the spectra, just not as much as normal. 

Some of the seconds also have some anodize blemishes, etc. This last batch of anodize really is looking good though, so the blemishes are dramatically reduced from the first run.

To answer your second question:
Some of our stake holders definately think that it was a bad move to produce the LS. Me being a rabid flashaholic I outvoted them but there are times as we got into production that I had my doubts.

Now, I am convinced that it is a good move for us. The Star LED has a lot of promise and it fits the Arc/flashaholic profile. Any time I have doubts I just put an Arc-LS up next to any similiar sized competitor's LED flashlight and then I remember why we started this project in the first place.

If we had waited to get into it, the company may have been in a better position to throw money at it, but it would have still take a while to iron out the bugs. By jumping into it prematurely, development is less efficient time wise but we also have a head start. Our LS dev program has generated a lot of valuable trade knowledge.

So yes, the Arc-LS program is definately an asset to the company.

Peter Gransee

Btw, going to lunch again with the Lumileds rep next week. Anything you want me to pass along?



I already bugged him about the tint and centering variations.


----------



## bluegreen (Mar 15, 2002)

I'm glad you're sticking with it Peter. If LS is the future then you're already way ahead on the learning curve. Even Surefire are now playing catchup. (The ArcLS must have scared them!)

I'm holding out to get firsts, whenever that may be...


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## Badbeams3 (Mar 15, 2002)

Jeese, at over 100 bucks it`s out of my range for now...it was going to be a stretch before. The new pricing might put it out of range for all but a few well off flashaholics...I`m a poor boy. I would take a good look at it and see if I could eliminate some of the features that are pushing the price out of range. Maybe reduce the number of batt options...stick with 2 aa...as a standard...raise the price of 1 AA and 123 cases dramaticaly. This way those who are most likely to buy large numbers of the light...professionals (spelling)...would still be interested as they are likely not to care for the AA~123 options anyway.

When is the AA going to be ready? I can afford one of those.


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## Lonewolf (Mar 15, 2002)

Craig I am always willing to look after your prototype LS if the responsibility becomes to much of a burden.


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## napalm-2002 (Mar 15, 2002)

i can almost taste the arc-ls

ill take one that has been beaten brusied buried burned or whatever as long as it lights. i really dont care too much about the finish because i will prob beat it up and wear it off anyhow.

in short gransee please sell me a arc-ls second


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## JollyRoger (Mar 15, 2002)

Peter, how about considering these "A" batteries? You need to only slightly modify the current two AA pack by making the inside a bit bigger (they are 17mm in diameter and the same length as regular AA's).
http://sanyo.wslogic.com/pdf/pdf/HR-AU.pdf 

Capacity seems great. I've ordered 4 to test them...I think in the ARC LS they would be perfect for the those wanting long run-times with a rechargeable!


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## mahoney (Mar 15, 2002)

Peter, Not that you've had a lot of time to think about this yet, but what will the process for ordering the seconds be? Will you be selling them through dealers liKe TTS or will they be sold only through your website? And, since I'm sure you've noticed almost everyone on this forum is very eager to get their hands on an ARC-LS, when might the seconds go on sale? Thanks


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## The_LED_Museum (Mar 16, 2002)

I want to buy a second, so here's hoping my money ship comes in before they're all spoken for. That "ship" could come to port today, or it could still be a week or two away. I'd love to have something for every day usage (to complement my E2), rather than trying to baby my valuable prototype and putting it at risk by EDC'ing it. (you know how many times that thing has rolled off or been knocked off a table?)

Personally, I'd lean towards one with a greenish hue than one with a purplish hue. But if there's no choosing, no big deal. I'd be happy with whatever I ended up receiving.
This wouldn't end up on my website as part of a review (no need in evaluating something we all know is not up to par in some manner or other), but it would hold me over until the 1.0's are ready for the red carpet.


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## Sean (Mar 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Here's the new pricing for the LS:

Factory Firsts w/10yr warranty: $160 (kit)
Factory Seconds ("As Is"): $70 (kit)

Seconds will be sold as kits only. 

When the firsts go on sale, you will be able to buy them as kits or as seperate pieces.

The price and invoice amount of our current back orders (web and dealer) are not affected. These new prices are for new orders only.


Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


2 questions:

1. Will any factory seconds have the new optic?

2. Factory seconds are "As-Is". Does that mean if they don't work when we receive them, or they stop working in a month that we are SOL?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 16, 2002)

$160?!...........




No offense, but thats alot of coin. With the new LS series that SF is coming out with, won't they give you alot of competition? I mean you could probably buy an L1 (or whatever the E1 LED model is) and a G2 for $160. I was considering getting an LS from you guys, but now that the prices went up so steeply, I cant justify it (unless the $70 lights offer a waranty too).

Eric


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## Gransee (Mar 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JollyRoger:
*Peter, how about considering these "A" batteries? You need to only slightly modify the current two AA pack by making the inside a bit bigger (they are 17mm in diameter and the same length as regular AA's).
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 

Well, anyone else want this? You would have a pack that is bigger than 2 AAs, and dimmer than 1 AA because the "A" cell voltage is only 1.2v. You would get a long run time, but that goes against our "brighter, smaller" mantra. 

It's not cheap to make and stock a new power pack but it is up to you. I would rather spend the money on upgrading the current illuminator design or a new flashlight design.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mahoney:
*... Will you be selling them through dealers liKe TTS or will they be sold only through your website? And, since I'm sure you've noticed almost everyone on this forum is very eager to get their hands on an ARC-LS, when might the seconds go on sale? Thanks*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would like to start offer a few this coming week. Also, since they are factory seconds and so few in number they will only be sold direct from our website. The dealers will recieved the factory first units like they orginally ordered.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*
2 questions:

1. Will any factory seconds have the new optic?

2. Factory seconds are "As-Is". Does that mean if they don't work when we receive them, or they stop working in a month that we are SOL?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Yes, but a fewer number because the new optics fix some of the reasons we have so many seconds right now. No special requests please.

2. Normally "As is" works better when you can eyeball the product in a brick and mortar store before taking it home. Since these are ordered online, we will work with you if you get a DOA unit. All seconds are tested at the factory to light up but they still are factory seconds. DOAs are fairly rare with the LS platform though.

Peter Gransee


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## Spork (Mar 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lightspeed:
*$160?!...........




No offense, but thats alot of coin. With the new LS series that SF is coming out with, won't they give you alot of competition? I mean you could probably buy an L1 (or whatever the E1 LED model is) and a G2 for $160. I was considering getting an LS from you guys, but now that the prices went up so steeply, I cant justify it (unless the $70 lights offer a waranty too).

Eric



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats the msrp with all the packs isn't it? I'm really hoping this light will be available from the distributors with 1 pack under 100 dollars. 160$ is a very big price. I know the arc ls will be the best quality possible and Mr Gransee has made the light everyone has always wanted. I just can't justify spending that much on a light either. I think its a fun hobby collecting lights but when the cost of one starts running over a hundred dollars it gets to pricey when a 12 dollar infinity and surge work for anything I need around the home or emergency use. maybe i shouldn't post this but its my opinion and im sorry if I offend anyone or Peter Gransee. I have 3 arc aaa's on the way and im just facinated with them. I thank Mr Gransee for working hard to bring us what are probably the best flashlights in the world. other companies seem like they build a light over the weekend then throw it in full production and never give it updates.


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## Graham (Mar 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lightspeed:
*$160?!...........




No offense, but thats alot of coin. With the new LS series that SF is coming out with, won't they give you alot of competition? I mean you could probably buy an L1 (or whatever the E1 LED model is) and a G2 for $160. I was considering getting an LS from you guys, but now that the prices went up so steeply, I cant justify it (unless the $70 lights offer a waranty too).

Eric



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Keep in mind that is the price for a kit which includes 3 battery holders - I doubt that the Surefire lights will come with more than the standard Surefire 123 battery holder.
If you want to compare prices, the Arc LS lamp assembly($102) with 123 holder($19) would be $121 recommended retail. Most likely cheaper from dealers like TTS.
Also, the Arc LS lights are already in production. I'm not sure what the prototype/production status of the Surefire LS lights are, but as far as I can see they are still just catalogue pictures, with a release date of 'this year'..no one of the general public actually has one yet..
Finally, as I understand it, the price is partly due to quality control of the LS emmitters - from what Peter has said quality of the emmitters seems to vary quite a lot. It is quite possible Surefire will face the same challenge..

I will be interested to see what the prices for the Surefire LS lights will be. Anyone have any ideas?

Graham


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 16, 2002)

Peter...I vote that Arc keeps true to its highly respected mantra:

"Brighter is better."
"Brighter is better."
"Brighter is better."

Let others make the dim lights.


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## aso (Mar 17, 2002)

Found this link a while back. I wonder if they will adjust the price.

BSD Light


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## LEDagent (Mar 17, 2002)

HOLY SH!* 

Please tell me that i'm just jumping to conclusions! THat company says NOTHING about Peter Gransee's Company! I see nothing that resembles the ARC in that advertisement. 

All it says is this: "A Highpower compact L.E.D Flashlight with "Powered by *BSD" engraved on it."

and: Powered by BSD L.E.D. Flashlight

Shouldn't it say Powered by ARC instead?!


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## Daniel Ramsey (Mar 17, 2002)

How about this one?

BSD Light


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 17, 2002)

notice if you take the next letter after A, R, and C, you get BSD ! What could this mean?


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## Gransee (Mar 17, 2002)

Hmm! Your right... Arc is one letter away from BSD. Spooky. Completely a coincidence though. "Arc" was picked because the blue-ish white of the LED reminded me of an arc lamp.

The BSD people asked me to produce a engraved version with "BSD, etc". They are required to order 100 units minimum before we will ship the first unit. That page is there to build up enough back orders.

Your right, they should at least say, "Arc Flashlight" somewhere on the page.

Peter Gransee


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 17, 2002)

Peter...

This certainly doesn`t look good.
You need to talk to your attorney ASAP.


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 17, 2002)

Peter...

You also need to speak their language.
Keep this ready and in your arsenal:

"G*dl zpv...boe uif ipstf zpv spef jo po!"


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## Graham (Mar 17, 2002)

Looks like they've just copied the description directly from the Arc site - and in the one for the regular Arc they've left in references to 'Arc'..so I guess they just didn't bother adding anything extra. I don't think they are out to convince anyone that its anything more than a light with the BSD thing engraved on it - it is a BSD Unix site, after all. Not a real dealer or someone trying to pass off the light as their own design or anything.

A link to the Arc website probably would have been good, but I'd say they just didn't think of it. (They are Unix geeks, you know..)

Anyway, I wouldn't think this was a case for lawyers or anything like that - extra exposure and sales through sites like that are a good thing, I'd say.

Graham


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 17, 2002)

> Originally posted by Graham:
> *Looks like they've just copied the description directly from the Arc site - and in the one for the regular Arc they've left in references to 'Arc'..so I guess they just didn't bother adding anything extra.
> 
> Anyway, I wouldn't think this was a case for lawyers or anything like that - extra exposure and sales through sites like that are a good thing, I'd say.
> ...


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Graham...

Zpv sfbmmz uijol tp?






(PS/Special Note: Please see my post made earlier at 7:26 PM. Thank you.)


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## Daniel Ramsey (Mar 17, 2002)

My first thoughts were that this outfit was the original creators and possibly Peter was the owner or a major contributor and some possible investors then decided to spin off the resulting ARC version,with Peter as the "figurehead" even Peter himself said he was into computer programming before the ARC business sprang up.


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## Graham (Mar 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*Graham...

Zpv sfbmmz uijol tp?






(PS/Special Note: Please see my post made earlier at 7:26 PM. Thank you.)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Doh! I'm a bit slow today - I just realised what you were saying











Anyway, yes I do. I think its pretty unlikely they were actively trying to hide the fact that the lights are made by Arc. I don't think anyone would believe that the BSD Mall actually makes the lights. It just looks like the usual 'cool stuff with our name on it' type of marketing goods. To use an example, if Peter sells us Shirts with an Arc logo, there is no chance any of us are going to think that Peter actually makes the shirts. And I don't really think anyone will care too much whether or not credit is given to where the shirts were actually done.

Don't get me wrong - I do think it would be better if they mentioned where the lights were from - I just think it is a bad idea to react in a negative way and cause any risk to potential business for Peter.

Of course, I'm assuming that you were to some extent serious in the tone of your original post...but I could be wrong (frequently am!



)

Graham


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## Daniel Ramsey (Mar 17, 2002)

Whats next? a CTE website?


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## Empath (Mar 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*I just think it is a bad idea to react in a negative way and cause any risk to potential business for Peter.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In business, keeping ones attorney abreast of questionable concerns isn't negative. Keeping track of all the details of business legalities is far too complex for one involved with concentrating on the business end of manufacturing and marketing. Details, obscurities, precedences and knowledge of past pitfalls are routine for lawyers. There are some rights that have to be defended vigorously just to keep them. That's not negative; it's prudent.


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## Graham (Mar 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Empath:
*In business, keeping ones attorney abreast of questionable concerns isn't negative. Keeping track of all the details of business legalities is far too complex for one involved with concentrating on the business end of manufacturing and marketing. Details, obscurities, precedences and knowledge of past pitfalls are routine for lawyers. There are some rights that have to be defended vigorously just to keep them. That's not negative; it's prudent.




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed - as long as the lawyer isn't overenthusiastic about sending demand letters and so forth, when a simple phone call would have done as well..
Its just that I've seen the odd situation where that has happened, turning what could have been solved with a friendly conversation into a fairly unpleasant experience.

Graham


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## Empath (Mar 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*Agreed - as long as the lawyer isn't overenthusiastic about sending demand letters and so forth, when a simple phone call would have done as well..
Its just that I've seen the odd situation where that has happened, turning what could have been solved with a friendly conversation into a fairly unpleasant experience.

Graham*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is important to select an attorney wisely. But, before we start quoting Shakespeare, lets just say that our interest is in what's best for Peter and the hard work he has put into his dream.


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Empath:
*It is important to select an attorney wisely. But, before we start quoting Shakespeare, lets just say that our interest is in what's best for Peter and the hard work he has put into his dream.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Empath...

You`re absolutely right in all respects.


Peter...

My original thought was that you should at least have a clear written agreement with the BSD folks, with appropriate control over their use of your work product. 

You may very well already have that in place, though, and if that`s the case, then all is undoubtedly well with the world!

Take care.


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## Gransee (Mar 18, 2002)

Thanks everyone for your kind advice! I wrote Chris of BSD Daemon a email asking him to update his site with the new 3.0 features for the Arc-AAA and the new price for the LS. I also included a request to add a link to our website. No problemo.

Peter Gransee


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## mikep (Mar 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Hmm! Your right... Arc is one letter away from BSD. Spooky. Completely a coincidence though. 
....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I don't buy that. There is something sneaky going on here (IBM was one letter off from HAL from 2001, remember!).
I'm getting to the bottom of this conspiracy as soon as I figure out how to mount my Arc AAA to my tinfoil hat!!


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## The_LED_Museum (Mar 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*
A link to the Arc website probably would have been good, but I'd say they just didn't think of it. (They are Unix geeks, you know..)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A geek would _always_ know what the "a href=" tag was used for, and when to use it. I'm guessing somebody simply forgot their double tall double strong no foam latte the day they put up that page.


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## Lonewolf (Mar 18, 2002)

The LED Museum: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I'm guessing somebody simply forgot their double tall double strong no foam latte the day <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spoken like a true Seattleite the birthplace of Starbuck's


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mikep:
*Sorry, I don't buy that. There is something sneaky going on here (IBM was one letter off from HAL from 2001, remember!).
I'm getting to the bottom of this conspiracy as soon as I figure out how to mount my Arc AAA to my tinfoil hat!!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mikep...

Zpv`sf efgjojufmz po up tpnfuijoh cjh.

Hp gps ju!


----------



## Daniel Ramsey (Mar 18, 2002)

Carpe Diem would you please stop that



i am getting a headache transcribing your codes!



Its a conspiracy theory, I knew it!!




Whats next, subliminal manipulation?




Take no offense please Peter


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## Graham (Mar 18, 2002)

Man, after those couple of messages I can just about read them directly..

Scary.





Graham


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daniel Ramsey:
*Carpe Diem would you please stop that



i am getting a headache transcribing your codes!



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PL!


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## MY (Mar 18, 2002)

If you guys don't stop using alternative forms of communication, i will start transcribing in igpa atinla.


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MY:
*If you guys don't stop using alternative forms of communication, i will start transcribing in igpa atinla.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MY...

Using a new code that the rest of us can`t break isn`t very fair.


----------



## Brock (Mar 18, 2002)

Completely over my head, give us confused folks a clue?


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MY:
*If you guys don't stop using alternative forms of communication, i will start transcribing in igpa atinla.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All right MY...
I see that you are not easily going to tell us how to read your new secret code.

WELL...I`ve assembled a really good team of code breakers, and they think that they can do you in.

But to get that job done, the team members want you to encrypt a special sentence or phrase that they have each picked out.

So here it goes...

<LI>Darell: "I know I make a lot of posts each month, but that`s because I really don`t have much of a life. (Except for, of course, the undeserved nurture I get from a really nice family and a loyal dog.)"

<LI>Peter Gransee: "Boy... I wish I didn`t have so many "second" LS`s to try to sell."

<LI>Carpe Diem: "You know...those serious posts really get in the way of a good CPF thread."

<LI>Daniel Ramsey: "I`M BACK!"

<LI>All the other CPF`ers: "Boy...are we glad Daniel is back!"

MY...you poor soul. You don`t stand a chance.


----------



## Terrapin Flyer (Mar 18, 2002)

Dbsqf ibt cffo tubsjoh bu ijt MF bhbjo......

Haven't you!?


----------



## Graham (Mar 18, 2002)

I think we'd better cut back on the encrypted posts before Peter joins in - then we'd *never* know what the latest LS news was.





Graham


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 18, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JackStraw:
*Dbsqf ibt cffo tubsjoh bu ijt MF bhbjo......

Haven't you!?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>






Once you`ve tried it, nothing else will give you as much pleasure.

Well...almost nothing else.

Well, OK...maybe several other things.

SO...your point? And please speak up. I can`t see you.


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by MY:
*If you guys don't stop using alternative forms of communication, i will start transcribing in igpa atinla. * <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pig Latin ?


----------



## Carpe Diem (Mar 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackBart:
*Pig Latin ?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BlackBart...

It`s good to have you on the code-breaking team!

Take care.


----------



## aso (Mar 19, 2002)




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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 19, 2002)

It sounds like the main problems with the new run of LS's is with the quality of the white LED. Is this correct and if so dose that mean that only 2nds of white will be available?


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## Daniel Ramsey (Mar 19, 2002)

Is there a CPF member here that is a Navajo indian? Of all the unbreakable codes used the code talkers of the Navajo nation during WW2 were at the top. Even after 55 years I still do not think a computer could break their code, or could one?


----------



## hawkins1965 (Mar 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*MY...

Using a new code that the rest of us can`t break isn`t very fair.





*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cpz! Ju eje ublf b cfbvujgvm njoe up dsbdl uijt dpef!

Am I correct?


----------



## Gransee (Mar 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mojo:
*It sounds like the main problems with the new run of LS's is with the quality of the white LED. Is this correct and if so dose that mean that only 2nds of white will be available?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mostly, although there are a few second cyans and blues.

Peter Gransee


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## napalm-2002 (Mar 19, 2002)

any idea when the ls seconds will be availible.

please


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## The_LED_Museum (Mar 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BlackBart:
*Pig Latin ?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Another language I never learned. And it's one that a ROT-1 decryptor will not decrypt.
Not that I bothered to even try. Gave me a headache.


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## MY (Mar 19, 2002)

Sorry I just got back from my semi-real job and found out that my Pig Latin code had been broken. Maybe next time I will just use plain old latin.


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## [email protected] (Mar 19, 2002)

Luctor et Emergo


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hawkins1965:
*Cpz! Ju eje ublf b cfbvujgvm njoe up dsbdl uijt dpef!

Am I correct?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## BuddTX (Mar 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*









*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As Jethro on The Beverly Hillbillies said:

"SPEAK AMERICAN"


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## Graham (Mar 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuddTX:
*As Jethro on The Beverly Hillbillies said:

"SPEAK AMERICAN"*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would anyone want to speak American? I speak Australian



(and passable Japanese..)

Graham


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## Gandalf (Mar 20, 2002)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by mojo:
It sounds like the main problems with the new run of LS's is with the quality of the white LED. Is this correct and if so dose that mean that only 2nds of white will be available?


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Mostly, although there are a few second cyans and blues.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean *most* of the production of white Arc-LS's will be seconds, and only a small number of 'first' quality white Arc-LS's will be produced?

Perhaps this is a silly question, but if you get mostly second quality white LED's, why do you keep them? Can't they be sent back to the manufacturer as 'defective' products, since they produce a poor color? Doesn't the manufacturer of the Luxeon Star LED's stand behind their product?????

Or am I missing something here?

It sounds like Arc Flashlight is *really* getting the greasy end of the stick, while paying full price for 'good' quality LED's.

Why does Arc Flashlight have to bear the financial burden of the poor quality control in the manufacture of the white Luxeon Star LRD's????


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## geepondy (Mar 20, 2002)

Well Nichia seems to have a better track record then Lumileds so perhaps their forthcoming higher powered LED will prove to be more beneficial and reliable then the Luxeon's. One can say the Luxeons are "now" while the newer Nichia's are still in the future but the Luxeon's aren't really "now" either and one has to wonder at this point when and if the quality control will improve for their product.

I wonder if Surefire is running into the same problems with their Luxeon lights? Unfortunately they're much more closed lipped about these things then Arc is.

Thanks for the info Peter and we're all pulling for you. If Arc ever goes public, I'll invest in some stock.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 20, 2002)

Peter you are awesome. It takes an individual like yourself to propel a new technology to it's very limits of production, and give us the best in illumination.

To address the "chastise Lumileds argument," that company has no incentive to produce any better quality light except for chance. They don't have to, since their major customers (much bigger orders than Arc I would guess) don't demand that kind of precision or accuracy in beam quality.

Hat's off to Peter for coming up with a clever way of turning a bad situation into a good one. For everybody.


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## Gransee (Mar 21, 2002)

Good question Gandalf!

We do send parts back to Lumileds. It costs though. Our electronics contractor is not setup to analize the beam of each LED while on the reel, so they put all the parts on the PCB's first. We then test them on the board at the assembler. They send the units they catch back to the electronics house to have the LEDs swapped out. The bad leds get packaged up and sent to Future, which sends them to Lumileds, and eventually, someday we get a credit for the part. The cost to get to this point is the cost of being first in the business. That translates directly to the cost of the product.

Out of 250 white LS emitters on a reel, maybe 25 are close to suitable enough for "firsts". That's pretty bad and I told the rep so yesterday (and provided many examples). Out of that same reel we will also get about 180 "seconds". 

Why not send back everything and only make firsts? Because we would not be able to afford this production right now and would have to wait until the second half of the year or later. We have many back orders, the "seconds" program is a unique way of making a "lose lose" into a "win win". The seconds are what is keeping the firsts in production. The seconds also appeal to another set of customers who are attracted to the less waiting, lower cost aspect while still getting a taste of the future. I carry a second personally because; 1)as of today we only have 4 firsts done 2)it still gets the job done quite nicely.

I know I resisted the many suggestions here on the CPF and from the Arc stakeholders to sell factory seconds, but now I am starting to see it is the best way to make "lemonade out of lemons". (in some cases it looks more like "lime-aid")





At Arc we take risks when we invest in a technology. And I feel pretty strongly about the direction we take. We bet on LEDs over incandescent, regulated over non-regulated, intelligent over simple, metal over plastic, etc. I am taking a really big risk with the LS-LED but I think it will be the hot technology later this year and we will be right there providing a refined product to you.

Peter Gransee


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## LEDagent (Mar 22, 2002)

So when are the factory seconds going to be released? I'm in the market for a new LED torch. THe PT attitude is a little too dim for me now. I don't want to get the ARC LE when i know that the PT attitude isn't adequete...and i gon't want to spend 40 bucks on the LE when i can get an Eternalight...but alas it is not regulated to give me constant light. THe Arc LS seams to be THE best solution to my problem - especially when i'm looking for a light to effieciently utilize my used CR123s. 

So Gransee...how can i get my hands on a factory second? If anyone is willing to part with theirs...i'm willing to pay 75 bucks.


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## Gadgetman7 (Mar 23, 2002)

I really would like one of the new ARC-LS kits but $160 might be out of my reach. The seconds are appealing but I'd like some kind of warranty. I know I probably shouldn't even ask, but is there any chance the price will come down in say 6 or 8 months? (I'm not necessarily asking Peter, just everyone's opinion.)


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## Sean (Mar 23, 2002)

I know were not suppose to get a choice but I would buy a "seconds" kit if I knew I could get one with the new narrow optic collimator. They both serve different purposes, I think they would both sell very well. 

Please consider it!





Also, weren't you going to put the seconds up for sale this weekend? (Patiently waiting)


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## WaltH (Mar 25, 2002)

I cannot get the Surefire 123's to work in my LS. The Sanyo batteries work fine but nothing from the Surefires. Anybody else experience this?


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## Gandalf (Mar 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WaltH:
*I cannot get the Surefire 123's to work in my LS. The Sanyo batteries work fine but nothing from the Surefires. Anybody else experience this?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might try making a small wad of aluminum foil, and putting it in the Arc-LS 123 battery case. If the Surefires are a little shorter than Sanyo 123's, or if the base is more easily dented, you may not be making a good contact with the bottom of the battery to the battery case. Just a thought.....


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## Mr Ted Bear (Mar 25, 2002)

Hi Walt

Yes, I too have had the same problem with SF brand batteries in the ARC. I have talked with Peter on numerous occassions about this issue, and can safely say the issue is being looked at, if not already solved in the newer version.

Instead of aluminum foil, I just dropped a small washer into the base of the battery compartment, problem solved.


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## The_LED_Museum (Mar 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*
Also, weren't you going to put the seconds up for sale this weekend? (Patiently waiting)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm also sitting here with my finger hovering above the "PAYPAL" button, _just waiting_ to hear the word. I probably won't be back here until tomorrow morning though, because I'm taking a short break from everything and I'll most likely be functioning as an *active alcohol filtration unit* tonight.


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## WaltH (Mar 25, 2002)

Thanks for your input folks. I'll install the washer tonight.

Craig, I think I'll filter some beverages myself. Bully!


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The LED Museum:
* I probably won't be back here until tomorrow morning though, because I'm taking a short break from everything and I'll most likely be functioning as an active alcohol filtration unit tonight.












*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go for it, Craig...just go for it! 

As a proud graduate of the University of Wisconsin at the Madison campus, we very often served as "Active Alcohol Filtration Units"...with what CPF`ers would refer to as a HOLA effort!

Best wishes to you.


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## cybersoga (Mar 25, 2002)

I have the same problem with some Panasonic CR123 batteries, it doesnt seem to make contact with the bottom of the battery. The Duracell battery worked but it rubbed all the black colour off the bottom of the battery.


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## Ron Schroeder (Mar 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*No typo Ted, it's the Quest NiMH rechargable 123s. <snip>
Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Peter,

Where can I get a couple of those rechargable 123s? What is their capacity? I don't need a charger. I could not find any info on the Quest site.

Thanks,

Ron


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## Ron Schroeder (Mar 26, 2002)

Peter,

Any plans for a battery holder for a full "A" cell?

I have a continuous source of Lithium BR-A cells (16.5mm x 46mm).

Thanks


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## Sean (Mar 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
*Peter,

Any plans for a battery holder for a full "A" cell?

I have a continuous source of Lithium BR-A cells (16.5mm x 46mm).

Thanks*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This was discussed a few pages back. The problem is it would not be very bright. You would be much better off using 2 AA rechargeables, brighter light and very low cost (IMO).


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## JollyRoger (Mar 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Well, anyone else want this? You would have a pack that is bigger than 2 AAs, and dimmer than 1 AA because the "A" cell voltage is only 1.2v. You would get a long run time, but that goes against our "brighter, smaller" mantra. 

It's not cheap to make and stock a new power pack but it is up to you. I would rather spend the money on upgrading the current illuminator design or a new flashlight design.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Okay, but I was actually thinking about 2 "A" size battery pack. This wouldn't have to be much bigger in diameter than the current 2AA pack (I think you might be able to get away with milling the current AA pack and just have thinner walls on the pack?

I think this would be a good option. "A" nimh cells provide so much more capacity than AA nimh.

I also wish there were a way I could step up the voltage/current a bit more for using nimh as opposed to alkalines. I think a lot of people use nimh...

Anyone else?

I suppose if it comes down to it, I could have the 2AA pack machined myself to fit the 'A' cells. I'll need to take more exact measurements to see if this is actually safe and doable with the existing amount of metal in the 2AA pack (the walls might be too thin?)


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## RevJim (Mar 26, 2002)

I had jury duty last week. Thought I had to turn the check in at work (or not get paid at work for those three days). Well, now I have $75 I had not counted on. The check is cashed. Looks like I'm destined to have one of the LS seconds. The wait begins...
Jim


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## Ron Schroeder (Mar 27, 2002)

Hi Sean,

That wouldn't be a problem with the BR-A. It is 3V. It is really an extra long 123.

Ron

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*This was discussed a few pages back. The problem is it would not be very bright. You would be much better off using 2 AA rechargeables, brighter light and very low cost (IMO).*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## Gransee (Mar 27, 2002)

*Update:*

There is a limited number of Arc-LS "seconds" available to ship this week. 

Please note these are factory seconds and are not rated Arc quality. They have blemishes, tint variations, centering issues, etc. They are sold "As is" and are not covered under our 10 year warranty. They are tested to light up though.

Cost is $70 for the complete kit. We have some white, cyan, blue, green and red available. In some colors we may only have 1 or 2 units available.

Here's the order page.

Peter Gransee


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## BuddTX (Mar 27, 2002)

Peter two suggestions:

1. As expensive as the ARC LS is, I don't think expensive batteries are going to be an issue for the user who can afford one. Do you think that you will offer (or would there be any benifit to this?) a 2 cell 123 Lithium battery compartment? If this (or any other similar battery combination) would give the best performance, than that is what I want.

2. 160.00 is a lot for a flashlight. As much as I want one of these, I am pretty sure that I will not be purchasing one at this price. I DO understand, however your business need to re-coup costs. However, I have a deal for you. <grin!> I don't know if other people would go for this, but let us CPF people PREORDER and PREPAY NOW for a LS at a significantly REDUCED price, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING, that these pre-ordered/presold will be filled ONLY AFTER you fill your distribution channels.

I would not mind this at all. In fact, I think I would probably get a better light. You get a chance to perfect your new light, and maybe the Luexeon Stars might get tweaked a little too.

This gives you more working capital now.

You could make it very clear that it might be late this year, or even early next year before these might ship, but if I could get a really good deal now on it, I would do pre-purchase one of these.

You have proven that you are trustworthly enough to do this, and not run off with our money!

Tell me what you think of these two ideas?!


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## Sean (Mar 27, 2002)

Thanks for the update Peter, order sent!


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## RevJim (Mar 27, 2002)

This is great. I placed my order this evening for a LS second.



I'm as pleased and excited as I was waiting on my E2. Looks like I need more pockets!


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## The_LED_Museum (Mar 27, 2002)

Peter, 
Your website does not allow one to order & pay with Paypal, so I'm e-mailing my order manually. If you read this before you get to your regular mail, or if my email gets stuck in the pipes, pleas send me one (1) "factory second" Arc-LS set with white LED to the address found on any page of my website. You will receive $75.00 via Paypal within the next several minutes.

"New" optics preferable, but if I don't have a choice, just grab any old thing and toss it in the box.





Thanks.


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## JollyRoger (Mar 27, 2002)

BuddTX, a 2 cell lithium battery pack would seriously overdrive the ARC LS....maybe if a two cell lithium side-by-side pack could be made, that has the batteries in a parallel config...this would give longer burn times.


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## napalm-2002 (Mar 27, 2002)

Thank you Peter and i cant hardly wait for my 2 white arc-ls's.


thank you


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## Willmore (Mar 28, 2002)

Hello, all, long timer lurker, first time poster.





I just ordered a 'second' LS and I thought I'd share why.

I've followed this project since its inception. I've watched how Peter approached the problems encountered in its design and how he overcame them. His attention to detail and his skill in design have made me sure that I want to loyally follow his products.

I'm not waiting for the 'firsts' for a few reasons. One, I have a need for this light now.



Two, It's been a long time coming and I can't wait much longer or I'll burst--or buy something unnecessary in a vain attempt to fill the void in my live that not having an ARC-LS has left.



Three, I don't need all of the freatures of the 'firsts'. I'm going to use this light geocaching--I always end up at the cache I really want to find right about sundown. I found one cache (High 'n Dry in Chicago 'burbs) by the light of a white CMG Infinity! I don't intend to do *that* again. So, my light is going to get abused--tool marks and hue variations in the coating aren't going to be very noticable after a few spills down a rocky hill--with my luck it'll be in my pocket at the time.

I respect and admire Peters dedication to making his products as good as they can be--I finally traded up my old point something Turquoise ARC-AAA for a new 3.0 and am very happy with it. It's a better light. But, not all of the features are necessary for every application of the tool--and it's a tool to some of us. A beautiful and skillfully designed one, no doubt, but a tool. A device designed to serve a purpose. I'm an engineer and part of that mentality is learning when to say 'good enough'.

I haven't seen the light itself, yet, but I'm pretty sure I can safely say it's good enough for what I intend to use it for. But, at the same time, keep up the good work, Peter. Don't stop making it better. You have a dream and a vision that we all to some degree share. Keep with it, just don't forget to make some money now and then! We will buy it, honest.





I'll probably get my GF to buy me a 'first' for X-mas this year. I don't think that I can have enough ARC flashlights. This will be my fifth. First there was a black cased turquoise, then a 'narural' LE, then a black cased UV, the a blue CPF special, now a who-cares-what-color LS. I'm sure there's room for more. As people said, worse comes to worst, I'll stick some LiFe AA's in it and stick it in the glove box.

Selling your 'seconds' might seem like a compromise, but it's not. I've never seen ARC Flashlights as being perfect, but as trying for it. And, always being honest and forthcoming with the customers. *always* Peter said they're 'seconds'. I know that, I'm not expecting it to be perfect. I'm not going to feel slighted if the beam is 5 degrees off or pea green and the case is half blue and half purple with tool marks all over it--I was fairly informed (warned?) and I chose to do it anyway. I don't expect nor desire anything more from a vender.

Thanks, Peter.

(Uhh, sorry I got so long winded and that my spelling sucks. ;( )


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## Gransee (Mar 28, 2002)

Thanks Willmore, and welcome to the CPF! Hey, I take my SLS (second LS) geocaching too! My GF got me a Garmin Legend for the latest birthday and we geocache together (good exercise). We are team "gransee" on geocaching.com. We carry either the 2AA pack (interchangability with the Garmin) or the 123 pack. Both the SLS and GPS use the excellent Rayovac 1600mAh NiMhs.

Many of the urban caches are best visited early morning or late evening so a flashlight is a must.

Peter Gransee


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## Willmore (Mar 28, 2002)

Uh, oh, now we're off topic! Help, where's carpe diem?

Geocaching equipment:
ARC-AAA (turquoise) and ARC-LE (on keychain, so not as convenient as the turquoise on long neck lanyard)
Soon to be ARC-LS! (SLS!)
Garmin GPS-12 (terminal guidance)
MagellenGPS companion W/palmVx (general area maps)
Cannon PowerShot A40 (documenting finds and non-finds) "See, it's not *there*!"
I favor sunset (after work) for caching--as well as weekends. Helps me get off the couch. Not as exciting as LEDs, mind you...

Hey, any chance of an IR LS? UV? Those little UV leds must be getting *cheap* by now for all the $4 stuff they're showing up in. Anyone know where to get them bare?


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## RevJim (Mar 28, 2002)

Wow, my seconds LS has already shipped. UPS isn't tracking it yet, but I'll be on the lookout.





Way to go Peter.
Jim


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## Sean (Mar 28, 2002)

My UPS tracking# says my ARC LS will arrive next Wednesday!


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## dark star (Mar 28, 2002)

My CYAN LS second has shipped! Perhaps it will arrive monday. I already have a white LS which I have used nonstop for the last two months. It is wonderful for hiking or for wandering around at night, but the white light is a little too uneven for reading ( but it certainly is bright enough!) I use the single AA container with a NiMH battery, seems to last in the bright mode for several hours. For hiking the light (color, brightness) is perfect. My only wish is to have the 2 AA batteries in parallel so the NiMH run time was 4 hours. On a hike changing batteries (and losing them !) is a pain.

Andy


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## geepondy (Mar 28, 2002)

I wonder how much the "corona" issue has been resolved with the newer optics. Anybody yet have any experience comparing the two styles? That is my only complaint about my current LS although I will always ask for a real switch.


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## Sean (Mar 29, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geepondy:
*I wonder how much the "corona" issue has been resolved with the newer optics. Anybody yet have any experience comparing the two styles? That is my only complaint about my current LS although I will always ask for a real switch.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The new optic is much better but does not fix the problem 100%


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 29, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by willmore:
*Uh, oh, now we're off topic! Help, where's carpe diem?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey...hey...help has arrived!





Welcome aboard, Willmore. I too was a long-time lurker until Peter and all of the other CPF`ers made me realize that the CPF would be a really great board to participate in. 

Having become a CPF`er, my life has now changed forever. And my stated goal in the ever-exciting CPF world, of course, is to keep the posts on each thread directly "on topic". You`d undoubtedly be well-served by following my example in that regard...and those of a few other CPF free spirits whose names need no mentioning. (Always remember: there`s only one "r" in "Darell".) 

And now, as if my life isn`t already complicated enough, you and Peter start talking about the "joys of geocaching". (Thinking that it must have something to do with something out of an adult website, I immediately went to the internet to figure out what on earth the two of you were talking about.) 

Geocaching. That`s all I need...to once again become interested in something new that would take up even more of my time (and make use of my Garmin eTrex`s otherwise sitting idle in my dresser drawers except for the deer hunting trips). Thank you...both of you.

In any event...

<LI>I set up a cache in Darell`s back yard. Go for it.

<LI>Have you heard about the big CPF party that`s going to be held at WaltH`s place?


Best wishes to you, Willmore. And once again...

Welcome to the CPF!


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 29, 2002)

Jim...

If Walt is smart, he`ll just send to us an Arc or Surefire of our choice, rather than all of us descending on his homestead in the middle of the night with our flashlights and GPS units.


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## Darell (Mar 29, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*I too was a long-time lurker until Peter and all of the other CPF`ers made me realize that the CPF would be a really great board to participate in. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, and now we can't get him to go away.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*(Always remember: there`s only one "r" in "Darell".) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

I like to think of it is "Dare" with two L's. Makes me seem more adventurous and dangerous that way.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*
And now, as if my life isn`t already complicated enough, you and Peter start talking about the "joys of geocaching". (Thinking that it must have something to do with something out of an adult website, I immediately went to the internet to figure out what on earth the two of you were talking about.) 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

Wow, this is exactly the process I just went through. I'm glad Peter pointed out that there was a geocache site, or I'd have been scratching my head for hours.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*
<LI>I set up a cache in Darell`s back yard. Go for it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>*

Oops. I thought the neighbors had left the peeps. Already ate them.






Yup... right on topic as usual. Like a magic arrow that just can't miss.


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## RevJim (Mar 30, 2002)

Give the location coordinates for WaltH`s place and have him be sure to have a cache of LEDs and Surefires. Things could get lively.









It makes me want a gps unit for my palm.
Jim


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## Carpe Diem (Mar 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Yeah, and now we can't get him to go away.

... right on topic as usual. Like a magic arrow that just can't miss.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Mar 31, 2002)

Report from the field

I just got back from a month in the woods of VA. Great place to really put the LS threw the ringer. As you would imagine it performed excellent.

Some of the observations that I have are:

I had a real problem with the new foam retainer that I received. I ended up taking a razor and cutting off the plastic sticky side and that was enough room for all my batteries to work fine. I used a Tupperware orange peeler, and a pencil eraser. Worked like a champ.

The 123-bat pack is by far my favorite, and the brightest. I do not carry it that way in the field because it is too easy to loose. 

The 2 AA with lith bats is next. I carry this way in the uniform because it fits into any mini mag pouch and you always know were it is at.

I have not tried the AA pack yet. I just have not seen the use for it.

I have had very good luck with Rayovac rechargeable. They do seem to be just a bit smaller and the neg end seems to be a little soft. I was showing off one night, and dropped the LS on the black top to show how tuff it is. When I turned it on nothing, come to find out that the bottom AA had been dented in by the defined button in the bottom of the LS. I took a rubber O-ring that was just a bit thicker that the length of the button, and it has worked great. I get better turn on now too. The rayovac are 1.2v at 1600mah, and are not quite as bright as liths, but are brighter than regular alkaline. I did see that GP has 1.5v 1800mah nihms and I can’t wait to try those.

The beam is off center, and there are some real blue blobs in the beam. I am working on getting a SF beam shaper, as I think that it will give more of an area light effect to the LS. The LS does put off a real beam that is great out to about 15ft.

I found the LS to out perform all the Mag lights of any variety that were out with me. 

I believe that I will get many years of faithful service from my LS. If I could afford it I would put in an order for the factory seconds that peter is selling. No doubt about that one. I can’t wait to receive my ArcAAA this week. 

Peter Thanks for lights, they are really a life saver for some of us out here.


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## hotfoot (Mar 31, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ledlight:
*I did see that GP has 1.5v 1800mah nihms *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>




Wow! Really? Where can I get those? The ones I have are only 1.2v. With 1.5v, I won't need lithiums so much any more


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## Sean (Mar 31, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ledlight:
*...I took a rubber O-ring that was just a bit thicker that the length of the button, and it has worked great. I get better turn on now too. 
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What did you do exactly?




I don't understand.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 1, 2002)

I will try to find the site that had the GP Batteries. I believe I have it on my work PC. 

As for the O-Ring, the nub in the bottom of the 2AA pack is knid of sharp and really raised up from the bottom of the pack, kind of jagged too. When I dropped the LS there was enough room for the battery to hit the nub hard enough to dent the neg end of the rayovac. the rubber O-ring is just barely thicker than the lenght of the nub from the bottom of the pack. I took some silicon greese and put the o-ring around the nub. O-ring stays in place, no more battery rattle, and when I twist the led down to turn the unit on it kind of locks down. I believe that I better turn ons. Later


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## Graham (Apr 2, 2002)

Hey Peter..

Notice things have been awful quiet on the Arc LS 'factory first' front. Any improvements? Any news for those of us waiting for factory firsts?

Graham


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## Gransee (Apr 2, 2002)

Not a whole of lot of news just been working hard to get them done. Right now we about 15 heads done but the battery compartments didn't match the same anodizing color to my satisfaction so we are waiting on new compartments to be plated. They should be done the end of next week. We should be able to ship a tiny (as in numbers so small most people won't notice) amount later this month.

Peter Gransee


----------



## lemlux (Apr 2, 2002)

Received my LS second today # 306. @AA holder and bottom 75% of head are the same color. Top of Bezel Ring is lighter color. 123 and 1AA bottoms are two different lighter shades.

Beam shows a minor wobble if I roll the light on a table, so it's a couple of degrees off of being perfectly centered. 

The primary aesthetic fault from my point of view is an optics fracture or void at the edge of the bezel running about 1/8" adjacent to the metal and extding about 1/32" in toward the center. The secondary aesthetic faults appear to be either two tiny scratches on the reflector 1/8" from the LS or two specs of dust suspended in the optics very close to the reflector.

Neither blemish appears to affect the beam. 

The beam pattern is quite white with one slightly bluish small blob tangent to the hotspot. Maybe that's what the blemishes are doing?

All in all I'm glad Peter sold this to me rather than scrapping it.


----------



## lemlux (Apr 2, 2002)

Aragorn educated me that what I took to be a fracture or void in the optics is a standard alignment tab. So much for my discerning commentary.

I do note that with 2 new AA's that the white appears almost incandescent. The brightness doesn't seem to be much greater than my X5, but the white is very nice.

This light will now become my consumer of fading AA batteries in the same way that my X5 consumes fading 123's. 

Maybe I'll use fading 123's first in the Arc LX and subsequently in the X5 if I eat through my capacity and voltage challenged nion-rechargeable AA drawer. (Probably not, because I trust Ray-O-Vac rechargeable alkalines more than Peter does.)


----------



## Xenon (Apr 2, 2002)

Is it possible to put the Writeright film on the LS optic to smoothen out the beam?


----------



## JollyRoger (Apr 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xenon:
*Is it possible to put the Writeright film on the LS optic to smoothen out the beam?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think this would be worth it...it would reduce the output too much...and it would be hard to make it stick onto the older optics (not a flat surface).


----------



## hotfoot (Apr 3, 2002)

Anyone had any smashy/gougy/scratchy encounters with the LS's plastic collimator/lens yet? If so, would there be any way to replace the damaged item? It would suck if the whole $160/$70 flashlight were ruined because of a broken $3 collimator.


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## Big Tex (Apr 3, 2002)

My LS "second" arrived today. Looks like a "first" to me. A bang for the $. Thanx Peter.


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## dark star (Apr 3, 2002)

I also would like some way to protect the lens-there should be some sort of plasic film that could be put on the lens( at least for the new optics which have a flat lens).


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## Gransee (Apr 3, 2002)

The bare LS-LED w/optics for experimenters is back in stock on our website.

This is the standard white LED with standard (not NX-05) optics.

Peter


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## Willmore (Apr 4, 2002)

Let me get this straight, Peter. There is the original optics--hugged the LED and was not flat on the top. Then there is the new optics--the one that comes with new LS LEDs from your site--the lone LEDs that is. Then there is *another* set of optics called NX-05?


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## Sean (Apr 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willmore:
*Let me get this straight, Peter. There is the original optics--hugged the LED and was not flat on the top. Then there is the new optics--the one that comes with new LS LEDs from your site--the lone LEDs that is. Then there is *another* set of optics called NX-05?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lumileds makes 2 optics. One has a wider angle of throw than the other. The ones used on the color LEDs called the NX-05, has a more narrow throw angle and is flat on top, these are now becoming more popular for use on the white LEDs because they produce a nicer beam.

So what Gransee is selling now have the wider angle optics, it just comes down to how focused you want the light to be.


Here is a picture of both of them. The one considered "new" with a narrower beam angle is on the left (NX-05). Standard white optic is on the right:


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## napalm-2002 (Apr 4, 2002)

i got two arc-ls.
one has the new optics
one had the old optics.
i dont know which i like better.
using the blind yourself test i think the old optics blinds me more.
hehehe yes i know im not the sharpest tool it the shed but i am the brightest son of a ***** in the valley!!!!!!!!!!!!

thank you again Gransee


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## K Horn (Apr 4, 2002)

What a cool day. 
My LS arrived, (a day later than schedule, GAWD I hate UPS. They are almost bad enough to be a government agency!!!)

All I can say is WOW.....

Could someone please tell me what makes these lights seconds???? If I had gotten this
and not known, I'd be very very happy. Perfect beam and color. Mine is #322.

HEY PETER have you ever considered a 6.0 volt LS type light? Maybe one who's head accidently fit on an E2???? Then people who can't live without a switch would be happy!!!

just a thought


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## Sean (Apr 4, 2002)

Hawkins

I would get a ARC LS second without a "second" thought.



Unfortunately the ARC LS pictures are peters proto-type pictures. If you want to see the real thing from my website, check there in about an hour or so, I'm updating it now with pictures I have just taken. BTW: mine is a second. The only real "problem" is the HA finish doesn't perfectly match on all components, but neither do Surefire's. All battery compartments & batteries work great! Got one with the new optics (Thanks Peter!)

Pictures are now ready...HERE

That is, if the site is not down.


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## RevJim (Apr 4, 2002)

Arc LS second arrived today. The colors don't match, and I love it. I got "First Run #068." The tip of the bezel is the same color (gunmetal)as the single cell barrels. The rest of the bezel and the two AA barrel are a much darker gunmetal. These things make it much more enjoyable to me. Clearly a part of flashlight history. All three configurations work great. Wow, what an LED! I, also, would love it if a "6.0 volt LS type light? Maybe one who's head accidently fit on an E2????" became available. (K Horn has a great idea!) Well done Peter. Thanks for letting us "adopt" these seconds. We will be giving them good homes with plenty of exercise.


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## RevJim (Apr 4, 2002)

Oh, Peter, I'd sure welcome the opportunity to provide an appropriate home for any additional illuminator heads in colors other than the white I just received. I wouldn't care what color metal. Just a thought (which I think someone else mentioned earlier, at a time I was only dreaming of holding one of these!)


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## cave dave (Apr 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*The bare LS-LED w/optics for experimenters is back in stock on our website.

This is the standard white LED with standard (not NX-05) optics.

Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Have they corrected the Pea Green problems on the new stock LS?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 4, 2002)

Well, we finally have our flashlights



, and have updated our site a bit. We didn't get enough pre-orders to justify selling the LS, but we are going ahead with the AAA-Keychain light.

(No one bothered to tell us there was an objection to the way we marketed our flashlights.) 

BSD Mall


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## lemlux (Apr 4, 2002)

I don't understand the prior reactions to private labeling of flashlights. I've always enjoyed being among the cognoscenti that can recognize a private label product for what it really is.


If people go to ebay they'll find a lot of private labeled PT40's selling in sets of one or two lights. Not all private labeled stock moves well apparently.


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## The_LED_Museum (Apr 4, 2002)

Actually, I do have a beef with the LS, and that is the knurling doesn't have a very "grippy" feel to it. Nothing that will make me quit using it though. Then again, this is very possibly why my LS is a "second"; on parts of the barrel, the knurling is so shallow in spots that it actually vanishes. I guess I'll know for certain when I see a "first" later this year.


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## hawkins1965 (Apr 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*Lumileds makes 2 optics. One has a wider angle of throw than the other. The ones used on the color LEDs called the NX-05, has a more narrow throw angle and is flat on top, these are now becoming more popular for use on the white LEDs because they produce a nicer beam.

So what Gransee is selling now have the wider angle optics, it just comes down to how focused you want the light to be.


Here is a picture of both of them. The one considered "new" with a narrower beam angle is on the left (NX-05). Standard white optic is on the right: http://publish.hometown.aol.com/qn9513/myhomepage/collimator.jpg?mtbrand=AOL_US[/IMG][/QB][/QUOTE] 


Sean:
I saw your LS pictures at your wedsite. Once I see the LS side by side with the AAA, I know it is much smaller than I have been misled to believe by the picture at ARC site. The finish is also much prettier than shown on ARC website. It is now so much more appealing. Is yours a second or a first LS? Would you recommend a second even if it is sold as-is?

Hawkins*


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## dark star (Apr 5, 2002)

I also have an arc-LS with old and new optics. The old optics is too blotchy(but wide), the new optics too narrow(but smooth). But overall both are so bright, who cares about the defects?


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## WaltH (Apr 5, 2002)

AHHHHHHHH,
I couldn't not do it. Just ordered a white factory second from Peter. If nothing else it will allow me to put the head of my original First Run up to keep it like new. Also hoping the 123 compartment won't require a washer.
And what stinks is I know I'll be back for another one once PG ramps up production again. I got a SERIOUS problem


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## Photon (Apr 5, 2002)

My LS "second" arrived yesterday, and I love it. Like many others, I wonder why this is considered a second. It is bright, well made, and the very slight color tint to the whiteness is hardly noticable.

Just for grins, I shined both it and the CPF AAA on a white wall. Although the CPF beam was almost a smudge in brightness next to the LS, the CPF beam also looked very blue in comparison. That is a good indication of just how white the LS is.

Even if I not known the LS was a "second", I would have been pleased with it. Then, I would probably have wanted another when the "improved" version comes out (what Peter calls "firsts").

Thank goodness Arc lights are here. I had been buying Infinitys and Photons, and even a Pocket Bright. The Arc AAA is the best tradeoff between size, brightness, cost, and overall coolness. I especially like regulation. All my future LED lights will be regulated.


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## cybersoga (Apr 5, 2002)

I have a simple temorary fix to get Panasonic CR123A batteries working - peel the outer layer off the battery at the top and bottom ends. (panasonic CR123's are probbly the same as surefire) Peter any word on a proper fix for this?

Andy


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## Gransee (Apr 5, 2002)

Yes, we have a short term and long term fix in the works. The short term will involve a metal insert and/or a pack dimension change. The long term will involve a spring.

Short term will be available in a month or so.

Peter


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## JollyRoger (Apr 5, 2002)

Spring? Did you say Spring, Peter! YAY!!!!!

When will this be? I am predicting not for another 3+ months???

I'm glad a spring will be finally used, though....


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## Willmore (Apr 5, 2002)

Hello, all! My LS second came today, too! Same deal with UPS messing up the routing and delaying it an extra day--I almost exploded when I saw that on their routing info! I want my LS!!!!

Okay, here's what I got. Head is first run #090. Same deal as has been mentioned before. One color for the upper ring of the head and the single cell packs and another color for the head body and the two AA pack. I actually *like* the two tone look. Keep in mind that I voted against the 'natural' finish. I like my flashlights black.

Paraphrasing from "Ice Pirates":
Q: "He looks great, but one thing, why did you make him black?"
A: "I wanted him to be perfect."







My light is a second and I would have guessed that if I hadn't been told. The light is old optics, has several degrees off axis tilt and the beam is strangely splotchie--one side purple and the other side yellow. And, the knurling is shallow and too widely spaced. Of course, I can only say that because the so-sharp-you-can-cut-yourself knurling of the ARC-AAA has SPOILED me forever!

BUT! I don't care! I love my ARC-LS. Love, love, love, love.... Uhh, excuse me, we need some time alone in a darkened room....


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## The_LED_Museum (Apr 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willmore:
*And, the knurling is shallow and too widely spaced. Of course, I can only say that because the so-sharp-you-can-cut-yourself knurling of the ARC-AAA has SPOILED me forever!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who would have liked a "sharper" or deeper knurling.





Mine also has the aforementioned "two tone" illuminator and battery packs, but I think it looks perfectly fine that way. The beam has the characteristic "splotchiness" found with typical "old optics" units, but you really don't notice it when actively using the light.
(Did I *really* use that many quote marks in one post?!?)


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## Willmore (Apr 5, 2002)

Well, I've got an old optics experementers LS that I got from Peter back in the middle of last year--when he started offering them. The beam of this head is like that beam pattern, but the *coloration* differs--more a product of the LED, not the optics. *not a problem* It's what I would classify as cosmetic, not functional.

WRT the knurling and physical build of the unit, the knurling of the head unit is raised and square while the (single AA case) has inlaid 3:2 (from visual guess) aspect ratio knurling. 

Something else that struck me about the two AA case--in the skinny part, where it's been milled away to make it smaller/lighter, there's a 'grain'. My guess is it's a property of the Al stock used--there are some non-homoginuities to it that responded differently to the HA. It's sort of like wood grain, but more like the texture of that extruded recycled plastic. Sort of cool.


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## Quickbeam (Apr 5, 2002)

Please don't change the knurling Please don't change the knurling Please don't change the knurling

It's more than sufficient for grip even if your hands (or the light) are slippery and it isn't agressive enough to damage everything it encounters (like my arc LE wearing away my swiss army knife handles and my keys every time it touched them! Finally had to wrap the whole darn thing in clear packing tape...)


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## hotfoot (Apr 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AndyJ:
*Got my second yesterday.

I was up most of the night fondling it and trying to figure out which is brighter:
(1) CR123 
(2) AA lithium

I guess my eyeballs see a difference but I can't quantify one as being brighter than the other.

It is truly an outstanding item that I am really happy I purchased.

Thank you, Peter, for making these available to us.

Andy*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just did another shootout - the 2AA lithiums smack the single 123.


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## The_LED_Museum (Apr 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dark star:
*Has anyone got a second and not liked it (to the point of sending it back?). I think we are all in love with our little orphans, warts and all.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nobody's getting _First Run Orphan #112_. Not now, not ever. I'll kick the phone off the wall, vaccum up the pieces, and then flush the vacuum bag down the toilet if the adoption agency calls and asks for it back.




The kid's "warts" are fine with me, thankyouverymuch.


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## Sean (Apr 5, 2002)

A spring! That will make the ARC LS perfect!
I can't wait till those battery packs are available!





About the knurling.

That's a tough one. I don't like too much or too little. I guess since different parts were knurled a little differently I will have to say that I like the knurling on the 2 AA pack the best. It is just slightly more aggressive than the LS head and other packs. I would guess this is because the LS head I have was polished enough to smooth out some of the roughness of the knurl. Otherwise it would be very much like the 2 AA pack.


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## this_is_nascar (Apr 5, 2002)

Is it true that the LS will not be available until August? Is there any chance of them becoming available earlier?


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## Sean (Apr 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
*Is it true that the LS will not be available until August? Is there any chance of them becoming available earlier?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You might still be able to get an LS "second". That's what most all of us did.
You can place an order for one HERE. ARC's web-site still has them (white ones) listed as in stock.


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## this_is_nascar (Apr 5, 2002)

Thanks again Sean. I think I'm going to hold out until they become available again. I'm growing impatient waiting for my AAA's to arrive. If they're half as good as what I've been reading, then the wait will be worth it.


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## bwcaw (Apr 5, 2002)

Mr. Gransee sent me an e-mail a couple of
days ago and said that he only had two arc ls
seconds left, and one of those is on its way 
here so i dont think there will be any more 
for a couple of weeks.Hope this helps.


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## hotfoot (Apr 5, 2002)

I hope that now he's sold those seconds and recovered some of the initial outlay, Peter will be able to do what he needs to do to make more great FIRSTS!



The seconds are such a nice taster to what's coming. 

Anyone back me up here when I ask now that the juice be cranked up a little more from the regulator so as to overdrive the LS a wee bit? I don't mind 3 hours of battery life at max brightness on a 123 if the Arc LS can top a Trek 19(1900?) or once-and-for-all surpass the X5 and other good 4/5-LED lights. 

So, again - who's for a more "driven" Arc-LS?


----------



## hotfoot (Apr 6, 2002)

I second Quickbeam on the knurling! It simply lurvely as it is - my thumb is ever so pleased with the raised section knurl...


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## dark star (Apr 6, 2002)

Has anyone got a second and not liked it (to the point of sending it back?). I think we are all in love with our little orphans, warts and all.


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## Sean (Apr 6, 2002)

this_is_nascar,
People have been on a waiting list for ARC LS firsts since before christmas, so (this is just a guess but) it may be next year before there are enough new LS's to fill all orders & have enough backstock for new orders, like yours.






<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
*
So, again - who's for a more "driven" Arc-LS?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm...Try 3 N-cells in the 2 AA battery tube.

What happeded!?


----------



## AndyJ (Apr 6, 2002)

Got my second yesterday.

I was up most of the night fondling it and trying to figure out which is brighter:
(1) CR123 
(2) AA lithium

I guess my eyeballs see a difference but I can't quantify one as being brighter than the other.

It is truly an outstanding item that I am really happy I purchased.

Thank you, Peter, for making these available to us.

Andy


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## hotfoot (Apr 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*this_is_nascar, ...
Hmmm...Try 3 N-cells in the 2 AA battery tube.

What happeded!?







*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did it survive? I'm running out to buy N cells now! And 123s. =D


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## Sean (Apr 6, 2002)

hotfoot,
I'm waiting for you to try first.






I've posted some comparison pics of the LS -vs- a standard 2AA minimaglite. 

Photos Here


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## Xenon (Apr 6, 2002)

Hotfoot, take a look at Sean's LS versus Mag beam comparision, his LS is brighter than the Mag. You may have a 'under driven' LS?


----------



## Sean (Apr 6, 2002)

The very center hotspot of the minimag is brighter and will throw farther when properly focused, but the rest of the beam doesn't compare to the LS.


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Apr 6, 2002)

I['ve got a pack of "N" cells, but I want to wait for somebody else to smoke their LS before I try.


----------



## aso (Apr 6, 2002)

confirmed not to smoke.

BTW: don't forget the spring for the N cells


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## napalm-2002 (Apr 6, 2002)

hey nascar buy a "second" i got 2 white ones and i love em.

especially @ 70$ ea


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## hotfoot (Apr 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*hotfoot,
I'm waiting for you to try first.





I've posted some comparison pics of the LS -vs- a standard 2AA minimaglite. 

Photos Here*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Luv those pix, Sean. But those were at close range. Check out my shootout at 50 feet (includes other lights too):
http://www.semula.com/shootout/ 

AND YESSSS, SEAN - *THANK YOU* for giving that 3 'N' cell suggestion!!!! Tried it and these are the FANTASTIC results:






Would never have tried it on a first, but since mine's a second, what the heck. Wonder if the higher voltage will cook the LS over longer runtimes. Care to try it, Sean? I'll wait for ya this time


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## RevJim (Apr 6, 2002)

hotfoot,
Excellent shots. The 50'shootout shots are great. I have to admit, I was ready to scroll down and see the high output lights go at it. Also, thanks for trying the 3 N cel configuration. Now I'll go back to lurk mode and watch for someone finds out how hard this is on the LSs.


----------



## Sean (Apr 6, 2002)

I'm not worried about the Luxeon, I'm more worried about the circuitry. Can it handle the extra voltage?


----------



## txwest (Apr 6, 2002)

Hotfoot,
Thats a *great* light comparison. Good work. TX


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## hotfoot (Apr 6, 2002)

RevJim, Thanks!

Sean - hey, thought we're supposed to go thru this together (but you first ;P)!

Actually, I *did* gather enough gumption to let the light go on for a while like that, and its done surprisingly well! But After about a minute or so, the N cells lose voltage, but without my light meter, can't really quantify the loss. Anyway, it *does* hold out and it still visibly beats 2 AA Lithiums. I think that Peter must've already over-engineered the light, with plenty of tolerance here and there, knowing the likes of us





These Arcs, whatever they may be, never cease to amaze me...


----------



## Gransee (Apr 6, 2002)

The circuit is rated to handle 6 volts on the input. The circuit itself will not draw more current than it can handle (as long as the input is below 6 volts). I would worry about the LED first. If it is keeps cool, then no problem, if it starts to get quite warm, then it would be best to back down the voltage. Remember that even with the good heat sinking, the LED die temp is still going to be hotter than what you feel on the housing. Over driving is anything over 3 volts. Of course, experiment at your own risk, we don't cover blown circuits or LEDs caused by over driving.

Peter Gransee


----------



## hotfoot (Apr 7, 2002)

Thanks for that reassuring info, Peter - I've been using it its overdriven state for 1 day now and I was starting to worry about frying the internals of the LS. But the light didn't get any noticeably warmer than with a 123, so that should be good - maybe because of the larger surface area of the 2AA battery case.

Anyway, 3 'N' cells is about as max-crazy as I'm gonna get with my Arc LS. Blame it on Sean!





I hope you're not mad at me for doing this to your creation  (anyway, somehow, I already knew the LS would laugh off my treatment of it...it *IS* an Arc flashlight)


----------



## Sean (Apr 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
*
Anyway, 3 'N' cells is about as max-crazy as I'm gonna get with my Arc LS. Blame it on Sean!




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>







Just doing my duty as a CPF member!


----------



## txwest (Apr 7, 2002)

I ordered a LS 2nd on Sat afternoon. I got confirmation on the order, but nothing about them being out. Do they normally notify you if they don't have the item, or just leave you on the "item on hold" list? I already have a 1st on BO, I don't need a 2nd on BO too. TX


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 7, 2002)

Tx-I looked and it seems like there is only blue LS left in stock.It would really suck to have 2 kits on backorder




I hope you get an email tomorrow telling you it shipped.
troy


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## lemlux (Apr 7, 2002)

Sean:

You can get aggressive in other ways without your tinfoil wad:

Try a 3.0 V Lithium AA with a 1.2 V NIMH AA = 4.2 V 

Try a 3.0 V. Lithium with a 1.5 V Alkaline = 4.5 V.

Try a 3.0 V. Lithium with a 1.6 / 1.5 v Lithium = 4.6 V.

Try 2 3.0V Lithiums = 6.0 Volts .. Right at Peter's limits for the electronics.


----------



## txwest (Apr 7, 2002)

If the SLS went to back order, I'll probably cancell, as the last time I checked, Peter said I might have the 1st LS in 4-6 weeks. I'm just glad I ordered back in Dec. TX


----------



## hotfoot (Apr 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by txwest:
*If the SLS went to back order, I'll probably cancell, as the last time I checked, Peter said I might have the 1st LS in 4-6 weeks. I'm just glad I ordered back in Dec. TX*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awww... don't cancel it Tx. If anything, its worth the wait AND the $70. Whats more if, if you get a late run, maybe that second will be closer to perfection than earlier ones.


----------



## Sean (Apr 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lemlux:
*Sean:

You can get aggressive in other ways without your tinfoil wad:

Try a 3.0 V Lithium AA with a 1.2 V NIMH AA = 4.2 V 

Try a 3.0 V. Lithium with a 1.5 V Alkaline = 4.5 V.

Try a 3.0 V. Lithium with a 1.6 / 1.5 v Lithium = 4.6 V.

Try 2 3.0V Lithiums = 6.0 Volts .. Right at Peter's limits for the electronics.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where can I get 3V lithium AAs!?






I didn't think you could mix Lithiums with other types of batteries.





I would like them just for the 1 AA tube. I like that size configuration.


----------



## Ron Schroeder (Apr 8, 2002)

Hi Sean,

From your pictures, it looks like the single AA compartment is as large in diameter as the 123 one. Does it look like the hole is as big as a 123 or could be drilled to the diameter of a 123? I have a large supply of BR-A lithiums which are 3V lithiums the diameter of a 123 but the length of a AA that I would like to use in a flashlight.

Thanks,
Ron
WD8CDH

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*Hawkins
<snip>
Pictures are now ready...HERE

That is, if the site is not down.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


----------



## Ron Schroeder (Apr 8, 2002)

Sean,

You can't use mixed batteries over their entire discharge but for the beginning of discharge it should be OK.

Try here for 3.6V AAs:
http://www.zbattery.com/zbattery/tl-2100.html 

How about 3, 2/3AA nicads in the double AA case?

Ron 
WD8CDH

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*Where can I get 3V lithium AAs!?





I didn't think you could mix Lithiums with other types of batteries.





I would like them just for the 1 AA tube. I like that size configuration.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


----------



## Ron Schroeder (Apr 8, 2002)

More 3.6V lithium AAs:
http://www.123av.com/DetailPage.asp?ProductID=LAA 
http://www.photobattery.com/#LithAA 

Note: the Tadaran rechargable lithium AA is not made any more.


----------



## Willmore (Apr 8, 2002)

Way ahead of 'ya.

Tried 3 2/3AA's. Didn't fit.



Need some aluminum foil.





I'm trying a 3 NiCd 60mA computer back up battery cell in the 123 case.



Should be bright for a few minutes.


----------



## hotfoot (Apr 8, 2002)

Aragorn told me there're 2 types of seconds - the incandescent-tints and the violet-tints. All else being equal, it seems the violet-tints are 3x brighter! And the violet tint is _supposed_ to be one of the *causes* of some ArcLSs being relegated as factory seconds. Wow - I'll buy these seconds in a snap!

If this is so, can anyone else verify? 

Peter, some of us here actually *WANT* the slightly violet tint (like Aragorn and myself) - particularly since they're so much brighter. Any chance of sorting them on this basis and making it a clear option for the buyer in future (even for factory firsts)? 

Or has Lumileds already (and finally) come up with a way to consistently produce predictably max-bright and clean-white Luxeons?

It would be funny for someone who bought an incandescent 1st to 'lose out' in brightness to another who happened to have a violet 2nd at half price!


----------



## Sean (Apr 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
*Hi Sean,

From your pictures, it looks like the single AA compartment is as large in diameter as the 123 one. Does it look like the hole is as big as a 123 or could be drilled to the diameter of a 123? *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


They are the same outer diameter but only AA's fit in the AA compartment since it is milled to only accept the size of an AA battery.


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 8, 2002)

I received an arc-LS second today. This is a great light, it is hard for me to belive that this is a second. The light is very white. It does say that it is a First Production run #243. If the Firsts are better than the seconds, I will be very impressed.


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## Ron Schroeder (Apr 9, 2002)

Hi Sean,

I think that if I get the kit, I will machine the single AA holder out to full "A" diameter so I can use my BR-A cells.

An interesting holder would be one for a 4/3A cell (.67" x 2.64"). If it is made with a spring, it could be used for a single 4/3A L-Ion, a single 4/3A Ni-MH, or 2 2/3A Nicad or Ni-MH cells. With a spacer, it could be used with single A or AF cells. With a sleeve, it could be used with AA cells.

Single Lithium-Ion cells are actually very easy to charge.

Ron

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*
They are the same outer diameter but only AA's fit in the AA compartment since it is milled to only accept the size of an AA battery.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## Willmore (Apr 9, 2002)

I'd like to get an extra AA pack to bore out to fit all of the AE size cells that I have. I've got them in NiCd and NiMH. Anyone want to bore one out? I'll send you cells to play with!

RS just closed out on an old Motorola cell phone pack that was 7.2V 2.8A. It was full of 12 1.4Ah AE sized cells. The price was $.98.



I have plenty of them, now.


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## hotfoot (Apr 9, 2002)

Peter,

How soon before we can buy more ArcLS white seconds? I have friends locally who wouldn't mind at all owning a second. I've showed them mine and they're all hankering for one now. Are they really all gone?


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## Darell (Apr 9, 2002)

Hmmm. Well on a whim I just checked a minute ago, and the site let me order a white SLS kit. So, I'm signed up for one finally! Not really sure if that means there is one in existance, but it is the closest I've come yet.


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## JollyRoger (Apr 9, 2002)

so you finally hunkered down and ordered an ARC LS, darell!
I'm glad for you...you'll like it!

Ron, as for the idea of boring out the AA pack to fit "A" cells, I took some measurements (b/c I want to to do this as well) and there is space in the AA pack, but you need to be very careful....
If Peter could machine some extra "A" packs that are only marginally fatter, that'd be the best thing.


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## hotfoot (Apr 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Hmmm. Well on a whim I just checked a minute ago, and the site let me order a white SLS kit. So, I'm signed up for one finally! Not really sure if that means there is one in existance, but it is the closest I've come yet.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've just placed an order for another one too! The ordering system says none are in stock, but it seems to be taking pre-orders. Must be good


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## Gransee (Apr 9, 2002)

Hey quit that! I opened up the site to work on it today and you guys slipped in. It's locked down again now. I hope we can ship your orders in a timely fashion.

Peter


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## hotfoot (Apr 9, 2002)

Sorry, Peter - all we wanted to do was to give ya more of our hard-earned $$$


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## Gransee (Apr 9, 2002)

Oh I have no problem with that, means more R&D money.



I just don't like to have a lot of back orders because it just stresses people (including me).

The patience of the people with LSs on back order is amazing. Even so, I still get several calls a day with people asking when they will ship, when they go on sale, etc.

Not to sound like, "oh woe is me, people like our product". It's not really that much demand in the grand scheme of things, we just aren't making them very fast which causes the demand to seem greater than it is.

By the way, to give you an *Update* on the LS production...

Everyone working on the LS assembly is finally getting the hang of it. It has gone from being a "black art" to something more like science. Our ratio of firsts to seconds is rapidly improving. I think the seconds will become more and more rare before possibly even becoming non-existant.

Went around in circles with the plating contractor this past week. They anodized a bunch of 123 packs and 95% of them where burned. They blamed the machine shop and the machine blamed them back. So we took the parts to a different shop and they plated them without any problem. Turns out the first shop racked them wrong. Sometimes I think these guys are not even paying attention when they do our stuff. I have also been riding their case about keeping the tint from part to part the same. You would think it is rocket science for them...

So the plater is on my list and in danger of loosing our business. I will try to work with them as long as possible since they are the third plater we have used in the past year. Good platers are hard to find!

We have plenty of emitters to last us a month or so even with half of what we ordered being sent back to the LED manufacturer. Now our delays are being caused by the machine shop (forgot to make the AA compartments), the plater ("its not our fault they look bad!") and the final assembler ("get us the parts!").

Our current task list includes:

-LS production, new accessory item, PCB change (HD), pack change, others...
-AAA production, New LED sourcing, new accessory item, PCB/head change(flickering issue), pack change, others...
-Website refresh
-Office improvements
-Misc

Peter Gransee


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## hotfoot (Apr 9, 2002)

Yes - demand is strong now. You'll have to beat us off with sticks. Like Arc LSs!





Repeated often, but necessarily and deservedly so - Thanks, Peter!


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## Darell (Apr 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Hey quit that! I opened up the site to work on it today and you guys slipped in.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! Can't blame *me*! You _told_ me to keep checking the order system. When was the last time you caught me not being persistent?

I can't figure out why I feel like I got away with something since all I did was order something that doesn't exist. But hey - I'll take any excitement I can get these days. I'm easy.


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## Sean (Apr 10, 2002)

Peter, are you still going to have darker 123 packs to match the LS "second" heads this week to sell?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 10, 2002)

I've also ordered an white LS "seconds" (Order No 1596) when I ordered it the site said that they were in stock. But when I check on the status it says on hold, does this mean that I was too late?

Tim


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## Klaus (Apr 10, 2002)

I have 1599 - on hold too

Klaus


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## Big Tex (Apr 10, 2002)

I had my Arc CPF put on hold but I finally got it. I don't think that being on "hold" means you won't get the light. My friends LS was on hold for a few days but it was shipped.


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 10, 2002)

can someone point me to where the post is on the most current comparisons on Arc-Ls brightness?


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 10, 2002)

I have to say that my Arc-Ls is better than I expected. I can't find anything wrong with the color or centering at all. The whole light scream quality. Im impressed, I would have to say that I think this is built to better quality standards than my SureFires. Right now the only lights that I really like alot are my SureFires for extream brightness and my Arc's for good battery life from a small package. I will have to say that I don't think I will be using the 2 cell batter pack much. The one cell AA is quite good and economical to run. The 123 pack and the Single AA pack are going to see lots of use. I do hope we see C and D cell single battery packs with adapters someday. The Arc is the perfect light to use up partially discharged batteries. I tried to use a battery that would not even make the filiment of an E1 glow at all, In the LS I got a usable amount of light. It was not as bright as with a half used battery but it was usable. 

I am going to use the arc-ls to keep the batteries in my SureFires fresh, it will be my utility light and eat half used Batteries from my SureFires. The Ls will also be called on to use AA batteries that will not run other items. 

This is a great light. I will own more of these. I may make them dedicated to the battery packs that they use if I get enough of them.


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## yclo (Apr 10, 2002)

1594 -shipped

YC


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## Gransee (Apr 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*Peter, are you still going to have darker 123 packs to match the LS "second" heads this week to sell?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I Certainly hope so. Those where the very same packs I talked about on pg16 being messed up by the plater.

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 10, 2002)

Thanks for the heads-up YC, hopefully I should be quite close to getting one!

I have checked the order status and it is still on hold, I guess I just have to wait for another unit to be rejected. 

Peter, are you sure you should be selling the Seconds? You'll have people making voodoo dolls of the people on the LS production line, just so that they mess it up and produce a LS Firsts reject.

As much as we are all looking forward to getting our LS Seconds, I'm sure that everyone here hopes that you are able to stamp down the number of rejected units. Hopefully very soon the LS will become a real money maker for you. Although $160 is a lot of money, I am planning on getting a Firsts kit when they are available again.

Tim


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## yclo (Apr 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*They anodized a bunch of 123 packs and 95% of them where burned. They blamed the machine shop and the machine blamed them back. So we took the parts to a different shop and they plated them without any problem. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, what exactly happens when something gets burned in an anodizing process? Is the colour darker than usual? Will it be just as hard as HA3? Will the hard layer that forms on the surface be thicker?

I have to keep thinking other things to keep my mind off waiting for shipping which is at least 2-3 weeks to *way down here*...

YC


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## Gransee (Apr 10, 2002)

Yclo, burning typically produces a white area on the surface. I don't think much of any anodize is correctly applied to that area. Burning is caused when excessive current is used.

Peter


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## Ron Schroeder (Apr 10, 2002)

Hi Willmore,

I will be boring out my single AA holder to full A size when I get it (hopefully in a week or so) I could just as well bore another one at the same time.

I am also thinking of turning the 123 holder into a 17mm long extension so I can use 4/3 A Li-ion cells too.

Ron

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willmore:
*I'd like to get an extra AA pack to bore out to fit all of the AE size cells that I have. I've got them in NiCd and NiMH. Anyone want to bore one out? I'll send you cells to play with!
.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## Ron Schroeder (Apr 10, 2002)

What I would like to see would be at least to have the single AA holder supplied with a bore size to fit a A cell and include a plastic sleave for inserting an AA.

Very little R&D for the added benefit and it would actually be lighter. ("smaller brighter, better")


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 10, 2002)

I just got my LS second kit first run #107.
Old optics,greenish halo,battery packs don't all match.I love it!I think the minor flaws will make for a light that I will really take out and use.When shone about 2 feet from the wall,the beam looks like a giant version of my Arc LE(it has a slightly greenish halo too).When newer and improved heads come out,will they fit the battery packs I already have?I already want a "first" head for my battery packs.
troy


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## JollyRoger (Apr 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
*What I would like to see would be at least to have the single AA holder supplied with a bore size to fit a A cell and include a plastic sleave for inserting an AA.

Very little R&D for the added benefit and it would actually be lighter. ("smaller brighter, better")*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


This sounds like a great idea, Ron. I would buy one of these as well. The only thing is, many users don't even care about an "A" size pack, and using a sleeve might be regarded as "messy."


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## cave dave (Apr 10, 2002)

I got my SLS Today! Yippe! #331






2nd Gen optics, Pinkish Purpleish beam, well centered. Mismatched gray tones, but looks nice anyway.

Anyway the only battery case that gives me problems is the CR123. The problem is that there is a metal lip inside the head just outside the foam retainer. This lip catches on the edge of the battery and crunches it a bit. It helps if a wrap the battery in paper to center it better. 
Gransee: This lip should be removed or rounded on future models if you haven't already done so.

The pack still lights up just fine. It's just a little harder to turn.

I will test the light more when it gets dark!


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 10, 2002)

I better restate my question...very unclear. Can someone point me to the posts where the relative brightness between the different colors can be found on the ARC-LS


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## blackz28 (Apr 11, 2002)

I just received my LS second _First Run #069_ yesterday



Very impressive.
The 123 pack even works with SF123's.


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## Klaus (Apr 11, 2002)

What are the ordering numbers of the latest SLS shippings ???

I do have time - but just curious





Oh yes - men and toys .......

Thanks

Klaus


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## yclo (Apr 11, 2002)

Hey, I just realized if someone makes "covers" that screw into the Arc LS's battery holders, you get spares holders.

YC


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## Bright Scouter (Apr 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yclo:
*Hey, I just realized if someone makes "covers" that screw into the Arc LS's battery holders, you get spares holders.

YC*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now THAT would be cool! I hadn't thought of that one, but boy do I want 'em now!

Anybody feel like trying it? I'll buy!

Del


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## hotfoot (Apr 11, 2002)

I really like the idea of turning the unused battery cases into spares carriers too! I keep swapping 'em around and leave the batteries inside. It'd be great if you could transport the LS around with all the battery options, and nicely kept in place with a screw-on cap for each case. Make it and I will buy it!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yclo:
*Hey, I just realized if someone makes "covers" that screw into the Arc LS's battery holders, you get spares holders.

YC*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had that thought the other night, it was actually a little different but hat the same results. 

My idea was to have a cap that went onto the battery pack and then the LS head went onto that. The only difference is that you don't have to take off the cap and forget where you put it, to do that though you would probably need to redesign the head unit.

Tim


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## Willmore (Apr 11, 2002)

I suggested this very idea to Peter months ago. He said that he already had a solution of a sort in mind. We also agreed that tooling up a mold to make these would be quite expensive.

Is there a normal bottle cap that's about this size, maybe?


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## WaltH (Apr 11, 2002)

My ARC-LS has been delivered...to my office...and I'm off today.




But I have a co-worker delivering it to me this evening. And tomorrow, I head to the Ocala National Forest for a camping trip. Can't wait to try it out in the woods in total darkness. Hopefully no bears will try to steal it from me cuz I'd hate to have to kick their @$$. I'll post more after I test it out.

Have a good weekend everybody!


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 11, 2002)

HELP...
I know its out here somewhere. I would like to find where the list of colors for the Arc-LS in order of brightness. I think I have gone through every list and have not been able to find it.


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## yclo (Apr 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cerberus:
*The only difference is that you don't have to take off the cap and forget where you put it, to do that though you would probably need to redesign the head unit.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But if you have say the 2AA holder in your pocket (with cap), and the 123 holder attached to the LS head on your key chain. You want a bit more burn time, so you swap the head and the cap, so now you're using the LS head with the 2AA holder, and the cap would be on the 123 holder on your key chain. So what's there to lose? The thread on the cap should be the same as the head, so this would fit wherever the head fits.

YC


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## Gransee (Apr 11, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:
*HELP...
I know its out here somewhere. I would like to find where the list of colors for the Arc-LS in order of brightness. I think I have gone through every list and have not been able to find it.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jon, Chris M. posted a side by side comparison of all the low dome LS parts last year in this forum. Chris, could you provide the link?

Peter


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## Chris M. (Apr 12, 2002)

_could you provide the link?_

Sure, I`ll see if I can find the thread later. It was either up in the "LED..." forum or down in Manufacturers.

Search takes forever over here, so I may be some time.....


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## Ron (Apr 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris M.:
*could you provide the link?

Sure, I`ll see if I can find the thread later. It was either up in the "LED..." forum or down in Manufacturers.

Search takes forever over here, so I may be some time.....




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this it?
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000753


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## Chris M. (Apr 13, 2002)

Yep, that`s the one! Thanks Ron





I have to admit I`d forgotten I was supposed to find that one, I`ve been caught up in the fun and frivolity of transferring graphics and capture cards from one PC to another.

The ever-exciting _pics and emails file transfer_ begins next week when my Zip drive arrives! Yay!


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## Klaus (Apr 14, 2002)

Any news on recently shipped SLS-ses ?

TIA

Klaus


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## bluegreen (Apr 14, 2002)

My SLS kit turned up yesterday. #057.

Old style optics. Compared to the CPF Arc it appears to have a red/pink tint, slightly incandecent colour quality (or put another way the CPF is very blue). Has a pea green corona but I wouldn't say it's a lot, at least not that distracting. Beam is off centre but not a huge amount. Smooth and not much blotchiness and some wire shadows. Nothing that you'd notice in normal use though.

The HA varies considerably on the bodies. Mine looks much the same as Chris M's photos. Has no marks or scratches. Some visible tooling marks in places (I think it gives it that hand-crafted feel). Chemkote is a bit skimpy on the 1AA body. All bodies fit perfectly. Smooth operation except on the 123. I'm using the Panasonic CR123A and the head needs turning down a far amount for it to light. Not tried any other 123s.

Overall, this is a fantasic light. The beam is a lovely colour. All my Nichia whites seem dull and cold now.



Initially I thought I'd use the 1AA body the most and maybe the 123 but now I've played with it and used it outside at night I getting to like the 2AA the most. A bit chunkier than the 2AA minimag but looks much tougher. I'll be taking this with me backpacking from now on.

I'll echo everyone elses comments that they can't understand why something of this quality is a second. The firsts must be very good indeed.

btw the clip from my Infinity fits the 2AA body perfectly.


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## Gransee (Apr 14, 2002)

Just got back from a great weekend in the mountains... Very relaxing. I used Rayovac AA NiMh's in the LS, GPS and Digicam.

*The latest on the LS production:* Last week we had the plating problems if you remember and that delayed production of the power packs. The darker 123 and 1AA packs are still not ready. I think we will get some of the 123 packs ready this coming week and the 1aa packs the week after.

The head production has been delayed as well but we finally have parts coming together this Monday for the next LS batch. We hope to produce less seconds this time around and more firsts. I think the seconds you have on back order will more than consume what we will produce this month. We will see.

Peter Gransee


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## yclo (Apr 15, 2002)

Just received my white SLS kit today! Soooooo happy. THANK YOU Peter!!!!!!!

First Run #100, old styld optics.

Initial impression: it is solid, very solid.

There is a slight gap between the top half of the bezel and the bottom half of the bezel, the bottom half has a slightly darker tint. The 2AA body matches the bezel, but the other two bodies has a significantly lighter colour. 2AA has plenty of chemkote, but the other two has hardly any at all.

The beam is slightly off center, and has a violet tint to it. Comparing the 2AA and 1AA bodies to the 123 body, the AA's bodies are a lot thicker and should be much much tougher.

The finish on the 1AA and 123 bodies are perfect, with no marks (either than the lighter tint). IMHO, the 2AA body doesn't have as nice a finish as the Arc AAA/LE. But it is still very nice. Comparing it to the surface finish of an E2 would explain why Peter has chose it to be included in my SLS kit.

As some has said, the 2AA body is the easiest to use, and can be used one-handed with ease. But I'll be using the 123 body to use up the 123's from my E2 and M3.

Once again, thank you Peter for such a wonderful product and if I'm guessing your level of QC correctly, then the first's should be absolutely amazing.

YC


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## Klaus (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
* I think the seconds you have on back order will more than consume what we will produce this month. We will see.

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter,

your post makes me wonder about the re-opening of the order system for white seconds and the display "In Stock - YES" for them while it seems there are still orders on hold / backordered ? Did you turn the system on again by accident or what is confussing me here ? 

Edit - it would allow me to order just ONE white - no other color or more whites .... ???? System glitch ?

Thanks

Klaus


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## yclo (Apr 15, 2002)

Mine, all mine!!!!!! hahahaha....
Anyway... you can see the gap I was talking about in this photo.





YC


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## The_LED_Museum (Apr 15, 2002)

I think this shows the primary resason my Arc-LS is a second and not a first. Check out the knurling on the AA pack, compared to the knurling on the illuminator. The other side is perfectly fine.

The slight irregularity (tool/pry mark) in the seam between the bezel and head wasn't even noticed until this picture was taken. It's really small and not a factor at all, so please ignore it.


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## yclo (Apr 15, 2002)

If anyone is cutting up plastic blister packs into little circles and trying to fit it over their LS's, CR2016 cells are something you can use to trace out the circle....

YC


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## Quickbeam (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris M.:
*The ever-exciting pics and emails file transfer begins next week when my Zip drive arrives! Yay!




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good luck with that Zip drive. If you havn't heard of the "click of death" you may want to do a search for it in Yahoo or something so you can be prepared...


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## The_LED_Museum (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quickbeam:
*Good luck with that Zip drive. If you havn't heard of the "click of death" you may want to do a search for it in Yahoo or something so you can be prepared...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I too am preparing to install a zip drive on my primary computer. Never heard about this "click of death" before but I know about it now. Thanks for the heads-up.


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## Chris M. (Apr 15, 2002)

_Never heard about this "click of death" before but I know about it now. _

I don`t like the sound of that




Please, someone- tell me more. Yahoo`s always death (terribly slow for some reason) on my old system and I don`t have the time to search tonight, far too much to do. No idea why I`m here reading CPF instead, but hey- what can you do?


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## yclo (Apr 15, 2002)

Click of Death

YC


----------



## hotfoot (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris M.:
*Yahoo`s always death (terribly slow for some reason) on my old system *_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have ya tried http://www.google.com ?
Fast and good search engine...




_


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## Quickbeam (Apr 15, 2002)

Glad to be of help.

Personally I use a Acer external USB CDRW drive for all my data storage. It's only 4x4x6, but the CDRW's can be used like a huge 550 meg floppy - literally. Write, erase, re-write. Newer computers with "multiread" capable CD drives (almost all of the current CD drives can do this) can read the CDRW without closing the disk, so the data is completely portable. EZ CD creator 4 and Direct CD (the software that makes the CDRW floppy-like)came with it.


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## Chris M. (Apr 15, 2002)

Thanks for the info everyone. I don`t like this "click of deth" at all! Best be careful where I store my Zip drive.

The reason I chose Zip- well there`s a few. First and foremost, the PCs at work all have Zip drives in them, so if I got one here at home I could use them to transport large _too-big-for-floppy-or-email_ files I was working on- I take the photos of our fire products here at home for data sheets, and one day I`ll be Tann Synchronome Ltd`s Webmaster too, but we have an agreement going with someone else for now. It`s not like I don`t have enough Web stuff of my own to keep me busy till then





Another thing I like is that the disks look and feel very much like floppies. CDs are CDs, and to me, don`t seem the same. CDs get scratched round here all too often, but I guess Zips could get damaged too....
Finally I like the portability of the Paralell port external Zip drive. My old Win3.1 IBM 386 (which gets used occasionally for database/wordprocessing, plus will host any DOS basedrecording multimeters or scopes I`ll get in the future) has external Zip drivers installed (I was given it ages ago, and it came that way!), and my old PC doesn`t have support for USB or anything fancy (it`s an old system, very basic and for some reason, some stuff won`t work in there- it won`t even let PS2 mice with serial adapter plugs to work!). The Paralell port Zip is as unversal as I could hope, plus they`re cheap to buy so if my drive does f*** up on me, I can buy a "new" one on Ebay for under £40, and hopefully Iomega will replace it if what I read is true.


I`ve heard horror stories from a friend about CDR and CDRW, regarding discs going bad over time, or refusing to work on some other computers, no idea if it`s a common trouble or not though. Plus whatever I get, it`s got to be external as the case of my new refurbished IBM PC300GL only has one large drive bay- for the CD drive. Typically, IBM being IBM, I can`t just buy a new ATX case to stick the guts in, cos the board is the wrong shape






To sum up, I think I`ll stick with Zip, at least till it screws up and loses irreplacable data. I`m only using them to swap files from one PC to the next, my backups will be held on the HDD of my old PC. And besides, I bought the drive already!


----------



## this_is_nascar (Apr 15, 2002)

I'm trying to read all these messages, but it's tough. Quite simply, does anyone know when ARC will be taking new orders for the ARC-LS? I'm not interested in a sub-par 2nd. I only want an officially released perfect LS with the latest fixes applied.


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## bluegreen (Apr 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yclo:
*Mine, all mine!!!!!! hahahaha....
Anyway... you can see the gap I was talking about in this photo.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mine is the same but I don't think I can see quite as much daylight. Knurling on the 2AA pack is spot-on.

Zips? Pah, nothing but fancy floppy discs and just as dodgy. Get Magneto Optical. Dead reliable.


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## Gransee (Apr 15, 2002)

*LS Update:*

I personally did the final QC on the next batch of LSs completed today. Still producing about a 10:1 ratio of seconds to firsts. Translation: We have some seconds in stock! I will update the inventory number on the website tomorrow so it can start taking some orders again. This time we will not have as many seconds available so the website will stop taking orders sooner.

Why are we still having low yields? All the LS LEDs we received from our supplier have at least some greenish tint. It quite maddening to sort through hundreds of LEDs and not see a single first quality unit.

So what are we doing? We are making firsts from the best we can find by keeping the ratio very wide. This means that pretty much all of our firsts have at least a slight greenish tint to them. You guys look at your seconds and say, "wow, if the seconds are this good the firsts must be better". Not at much as you might think though. They are mostly better by having less anodize tint variations, slightly less greenish tint, better centered LED and new optics. Other than that, most people could not tell the difference between a first and a second. 

I am debating if I should order more Low Dome whites. On the one hand we could sell them as seconds but our production must be firsts driven. But if we wait for the High Dome whites which are supposed to have better tint control, it might be another 4-5 months before we get new white LEDs. Our current stock, which is for all intents seconds stock, will only last another month or so. The current official HD order date according to our rep is July 1st. So we put an order in then and wait for it to be fullfilled. With the demand for these parts, our last order for white LEDs took 3 months to fill. 2 months to order, 3 months to fullfill equals 5 month to new stock. 

But if I order a bunch of LDs today, we could insure a fairly regular production of seconds up unto the day we finally get our HD whites for first production 5 months from now.

Again, I don't like ordering parts knowing that they are obviously intended for making seconds. It is a pride thing. However, I do feel a little better knowing that all this seconds production is really improving our product in the long run by giving us valuable production experience. This gives us a leg up on our competition. For example, we came up with two more solid improvements to the power packs today and both where approved for immediate integration into production. There are just so many things that can be caught by internal testing. Neither probally would have come to light without real life testing by you. 

So here's where we are at:

- Still making Arc-LSs
- Added two new improvements today involving changes to how 123 cells are handled by the power pack and illuminator section. The changes are being incorporated into current production
- Debating on if we should pause manufacturing first and seconds units for a 3 month period until the new High Dome parts are available
- A small number of seconds can be ordered from our website starting tomorrow and probally lasting until this weekend
- The date for taking new orders on Firsts (w/HD LED) has been pushed back to November to be safe considering our past experience in how long it takes for the new parts to make it to us.
-We will continue to fullfill back orders from as far back as December on LS firsts very slooowly because of the low yields. We might have them all filled by November when the new units are hopfully ready. If you have a back order, you may wait or change your order to a second which will ship much sooner.

Peter Gransee


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## Carpe Diem (Apr 15, 2002)

Peter...

Today I sent in all of my ("my"...?) money to the United States of America.

Waiting for the High Domes is fine with me!


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## Graham (Apr 15, 2002)

Thanks for the detailed update, Peter.

Well, I'm going to hang on to my 'first' backorder. But based on what everyone has said about the seconds, I suspect I'll give in and order one anyway.

Graham


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## Darell (Apr 15, 2002)

Ooooh! Checking my LSs order from 4/9... checking... Dang. Still on hold?!


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## JoeyL (Apr 15, 2002)

I just received my blue LS "second" and I just can't figure why it is a second. The beam is great, a deep piercing blue, high intensity, and works well with all the battery packs. I'd have to agree with Peter in that I can't tell the difference in this unit. Assuming that this unit will work as long as a first, I'll take the seconds at nearly half the cost anytime.

This is a great product, Peter. I'm happy.


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## The_LED_Museum (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris M.:
*Never heard about this "click of death" before but I know about it now. 

I don`t like the sound of that



Please, someone- tell me more. Yahoo`s always death (terribly slow for some reason) on my old system and I don`t have the time to search tonight*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try it on google instead. Fewer ads, and usually no pop-ups/downs/sideways.

Try this page for starters: http://grc.com/tip/codfaq1.htm


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## Bob Snow (Apr 16, 2002)

Click of death - I had one zip drive go bad out of about 6 at work. Iomega will typically replace even out of warranty because it's a known problem. It's typically the drive, not the disks. I now use a tiny 20GB bus powered 2.5" firewire drive for backup or just boot my PowerBook G4 into firewire target mode for large data transfers.


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 16, 2002)

Let me see if I have this right and can someone complete this. Brightness of the Arc-ls.

#1.Amber
#2.Red
#3.Blue??? probably wrong.
#4.???
#5.???
#6.???


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## Sean (Apr 16, 2002)

Peter, are the HD whites suppose to be any brighter? If so have they given any indication as to how much brighter?

Have they sent you any HD white samples to test?

Any word on when the "brighter than" HD whites will be out?

Are the new seconds you are selling all have new optics?


----------



## JonSidneyB (Apr 16, 2002)

Hmmm, everyone clamoring for brighter. I like brighter as well but sometimes the current brightness at longer runtimes are nice.


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## Gransee (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:
*Let me see if I have this right and can someone complete this. Brightness of the Arc-ls.

#1.Amber
#2.Red
#3.Blue??? probably wrong.
#4.???
#5.???
#6.???*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


With the current parts, this is what I am seeing:

1. Orangish red
2. Red
3. Amber
4 Cyan
5. Blue
6. Royal Blue
7. Green
8. White

We have eliminated the 3 "redundant" colors so our list looks like this currently:

1. Orangish red (simply called "red")
2. Amber
3. Cyan
4. Royal Blue (simply called "blue")
5. White

Peter


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## Gransee (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean:
*Peter, are the HD whites suppose to be any brighter? If so have they given any indication as to how much brighter?

Have they sent you any HD white samples to test?

Any word on when the "brighter than" HD whites will be out?

Are the new seconds you are selling all have new optics?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of the seconds now have the new optics. There may be 1 or 2 with the old optics still lurking around.

The HD are supposed to be anywhere from 10 to 15 lumens brighter.

They will probally be out in 6 months.

Peter


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## Xenon (Apr 16, 2002)

Hi Peter

Is your CPF Arc in stock again at $34.95??
It appears on the order page when you click on the LS second.


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## Xenon (Apr 16, 2002)

I was using IE 5.5 when the CPF Arc appears, switched browser to Opera 6.01 and the Arc is now gone. Strange...


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## Gransee (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xenon:
*Hi Peter

Is your CPF Arc in stock again at $34.95??
It appears on the order page when you click on the LS second.




*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, it is not in stock. Not sure why it would appear in your browser though.

Peter


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## bluegreen (Apr 16, 2002)

As I already have a low dome white to play with



I'd prefer to wait and have high domes on the back-ordered firsts.


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## Lux Luthor (Apr 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Xenon:
*I was using IE 5.5 when the CPF Arc appears, switched browser to Opera 6.01 and the Arc is now gone. Strange...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Opera doesn't automatically check for updated pages. You may have pulled up an old cached page. You can adjust this, though.


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## Gransee (Apr 18, 2002)

*Update:*

What a fun week.



I hope everyone else is having a better week.





We finally got the epic 123 pack plating completed (only took one month- yeeeah). All the packs completed today automatically became seconds just with a quick glance. They don't look all that great. The butts have a lighter color than the rest of the pack and the interior is cruddy. However, I think we narrowed the problem down to a combination of poor machining (we used another shop other than our primary to save time- hah), too many plate attempts on the same metal and general ineptitude. 

The primary machine shop is now rushing to complete the next batch of 123 packs. These have several improvements and the surface RMS is better. I have been playing with a reject of one of the new packs (blemished) and it works better. They should plate up nice this time around. If they don't, I am going back to delivering pizza!

The improvements are centered around handling more types of 123 cells (still not all) and handling them better (less crushed cells).

Briefly flurted with the idea of using a Titanium Nitrade coating to save money, but then back burnered the idea (it was informative though) because it would have probally delayed production.

Other happenings in no particular order:

The Arc-AA project was postponed. But not before the head machinst did up some very nice CAD drawings. What a shame, I really like offering new lights. Probally a good thing to postpone it because CMG is rumored to be upgrading their Infinity. Getting into a price war takes the focus off of making better lights. I like lights that free us up to explore our inner flash-a-holic. When we get back into the Arc-AA, it will be quite different from everybody else.

The Arc-AAA has about 4 upgrades in the works. As usual, we can't say what they are because we love our dealers and don't want to obsolete their inventory. It probally will take a couple of months for the new upgrades to make it into normal circulation.

One thing I can tell you and it probally isn't that exciting for you anyway: Our retail cards will have french and english instructions on the back for our Canadian friends. 

Also making many upgrades to the LS. Some you'll see right away, others might take until after Christmas. Basically, more of what you like about us. If you _don't_ like us, disregard that... sniff..

I want to aplogize again for the long wait in fullfulling some of orders. Some of you have been waiting over 6 months. I fielded a few frustrated people email/calls this week. This is why we are not taking any new orders on the Arc-LS firsts. Too easy to let you down at this stage in the game, so I won't. If it gets too much for you, cancel your order, we will both feel less stress.





We currently have a few LS seconds in stock but we will probally be out by the weekend. 

Everyone have a great weekend!

Peter Gransee
Your Arc Flashlight


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## BigHonu (Apr 18, 2002)

Mr. Gransee,

Thanks for your never-ending push for producing a light that is first rate in every way. Your work ethic and commitment is commendable and has made me a loyal customer. Hope your week improves.

Aloha

Brian

PS can't wait to get #1637!!!


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## Graham (Apr 18, 2002)

Peter,

Thanks for yet another detailed and informative update. Very much appreciated. 
I'll wait patiently for my Arc LS 'first'..

In the meantime, I just have to try and stop my 'inner flashaholic' sending me broke bidding for one of those brass AAAs..





Graham


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## Sean (Apr 18, 2002)

Have you considered Black HA-III for the LS? Would doing this create better color matching than natural HA-III?


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## Darell (Apr 19, 2002)

Mine seems to have left in the same shipment... but the good news in my case is that I'm but one state away...


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## Graham (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Mine seems to have left in the same shipment... but the good news in my case is that I'm but one state away...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was your order from the previous round of seconds? I put in for one as soon as Peter opened up ordering again, but nothing so far <sniff>..





Ah well. Back to working on my super duper halogen dual LS lantern combo, I guess..

Graham


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## txwest (Apr 19, 2002)

Graham,
This is from the latest round of 2nd's. They just shipped mine & the order was 1601. Unfortuantely, I had cancelled it back on the 15th because I should be getting my 1st pretty soon. TX


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## Graham (Apr 19, 2002)

Ah. My 'second' order number is 1641, so I guess I'm a bit further down the list..

Graham


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 19, 2002)

You guys are going to love them.The LS is now,without a doubt,my #1 piece of quality gear.And mine is a second.


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## txwest (Apr 19, 2002)

Graham,
If you lived in the States, I'ld send you the one Peter already shipped me as opposed to sending it back to ARC. TX


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 19, 2002)

Hey tex-if he doesn't want it,I do.
troy


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## Graham (Apr 19, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*Ah. My 'second' order number is 1641, so I guess I'm a bit further down the list..

Graham*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I spoke too soon. Just got the mail, mine has shipped too. Can't wait!








Graham


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## Klaus (Apr 20, 2002)

just to brag a bit about having received an email from ARC that order # 1599 with my SLS was shipped - only issue is that it will taked ages to make in into my hands



(Edit - not ARCs fault)

Klaus


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 20, 2002)

txwest: Check your email! I am very sorry about the Light. Ledlight.


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## Gransee (Apr 21, 2002)

Here's a picture of various projects from this past week...







From the upper left... SLS heads for testing, various 123 cells for compatibility tests. The green cell is the one of the quest rechargables I use in my HD orange. The bare aluminum 123 pack is one of the new design for testing. Note: All of the 123 cells shown except the Duracell require the stock retainer to be removed in order to work, even with the new pack design. Some of the rayovac NimHs I use in everything (digicam, GPS, LS2AA). The funky LS-LED is the new HD Side-Emitting, "Infinity" also for testing. The Arc-AAA head is the new crimp prototype (in testing to see if it is more rugged). And of course the 8 brass Arc-AAA's awaiting shippment to the auction winners.

Peter Gransee


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## hotfoot (Apr 21, 2002)

Peter,

is that thing in the uppermost-righthand corner what I think it is ? A screw-on cap for the unused Arc-LS battery packs? If so, when can we start ordering?





Side-emitting HD LS? You mean there are more than one type of HD emitter profiles? Wow...


----------



## Gransee (Apr 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
*Peter,

is that thing in the uppermost-righthand corner what I think it is ? A screw-on cap for the unused Arc-LS battery packs? If so, when can we start ordering?






Side-emitting HD LS? You mean there are more than one type of HD emitter profiles? Wow...



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No, that's the new 123 pack on a HD orange emitter (my edc).

Yup, they have side emitting in 1w and 5w.

Notice that the 4th brass Arc-AAA from the left is different than the other 7? It's knurl was cut shorter as an experiment to make it smoother. 

Peter


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## hotfoot (Apr 21, 2002)

Thanks for straightening that out, Peter.

Wow - actually, now that I've seen those lovely brass AAAs, I'm regretting not taking part in the bidding




The guy who gets that shallow-knurl is gonna be real happy - talk about a one-off!





Wonder what sorta flashlight would use a side-emitting LS?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 21, 2002)

Can anyone tell me where I can find a NIB Arc-LS for sale? I prefer white. Thanks

mike200


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## hotfoot (Apr 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mike200:
*Can anyone tell me where I can find a NIB Arc-LS for sale? I prefer white. Thanks

mike200*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok, now what is an NIB Arc-LS?


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## Silviron (Apr 21, 2002)

Those brass AAA ARCs are sure beauties. You think you might do a few LSs in brass when the time comes?

P.S. I like the deeper knurling, personally.


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## Darell (Apr 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
*
Ok, now what is an NIB Arc-LS? 



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm assuming that is "New In Box." In which case, Mike200, you're gonna have a bit of trouble finding one for the immediate future. Lots of folks are waiting months and months for these already...


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## Graham (Apr 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*I'm assuming that is "New In Box."....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, does the Arc LS come in a box? Gee, I was looking forward to the patented Arc ziplock baggy that I got so attached to with my earlier Arc AAAs..





Graham


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 22, 2002)

NIB,NIP,LNIB 

You get the idea, I'm glad to see I can at least get a response or two. I guess I'll just have to wait for one.

Thanks ,

mike200


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## Roy (Apr 23, 2002)

Got my ARC SLS yesterday evening! First run #466! My observations so far:

1 With an Energiser E2 123 Li battery, it is almost impossible to get it to turn on,..just when you think it's not going to work it comes on. Needs lot of torque!

2.The perceived brightness between the 123 Li and the AAx2 (1.5v Li)is the same.

3. With a Radio Shack #23-037 3.6V Li AA battery in the single AA holder, the perceived brighness is the same as the 123 and AAx2. 

Going to keep the 3.6v AA as a stand-by power source as the thing cost $9.99 at Radio Shack! And to think, before I retired, I used to throw away a hundred or so of those things each week!





Why is it, when you hand someone the SLS, they stare at the bulb as they turn it on? Fun to watch them get whiplash getting out of the way of the light saber! Love my SLS!


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## Roy (Apr 23, 2002)

In reference to #1 above....things got a whole lot easier to turn after I lubed the O-rings! Amazing!


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## mahoney (Apr 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:

Wonder what sorta flashlight would use a side-emitting LS?









[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hoping I'm not letting "a cat out of the bag" here but I am going to take a guess and say "an LED flashlight that's focusable by use of a reflector". 

Just this morning I was wishing my ARC SLS was focusable because sometimes I could use a wider pool of light for close up, and sometimes I wish I could make the hotspot smaller and get more "throw" to see stuff at a distance. That's the only thing I miss about the AA Mini-Mag.

I started thinking about how to use a moveable lense to focus the LS and my mind clicked back to reading about the side-emitting luxeon last evening. The light from a bare luxeon emitter goes mostly to the front. With little light going to the side a reflector has little to gather and focus. Thus the optical collimater usually used with the luxeon in flashlights. You could put a moving lense in front of the collimator to focus the flashlight, but this is not a perfect solution for a few reasons. 

First, adding a lense would cost some light output. Any lense loses some light, at least a few percent. There is also typicaly a direct relationship between lense cost and efficiency. The mechanics involved in moving a reflector to change the focus of a flashlight are a bit simpler than those involved in moving a lense and a good reflector is cheaper than a good lense and a bit more efficient than a cheap lense would be.

With all the light going to the side, a side emitting luxeon would be a good source if you were trying to make a focusable LS using a reflector, or that's my guess anyway.

P.S. Peter, if I have guessed correctly, any chance I can field test this one for you?


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## dark star (Apr 24, 2002)

I just got my Arc SLS ( with new optics-#500 ) - first impressions.
1. Why is it a second ?
2 . Beam width and smoothness is perfect.
3. White is less bright then my Arc LS with old optics ( but which does not have a smooth beam ). This new Arc has a bit of a darkish greenish tint. My old optics LS is pure white - you can tell the difference between the two. 
4. Its a keeper!


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## bcwang (Apr 24, 2002)

I finally got my SLS! It is a sweet flashlight, it's much smaller and lighter than I expected. I'm just wondering if I have the new or old optics, but I can't tell because the way the lens is it distorts what's inside. It's bright, a lot brighter than my x5, it's also pea green. I wonder if the violet ones are really brighter much brighter.

Does anyone know how to tell the new and old optics apart? Maybe someone can post a comparison picture, that would be helpful. I notice the pea green tint everyone is talking about, but it's a great contrast to my X5 which is violet.

Also, my battery packs look kinda dirty on the inside, more like some crust of powder or something. I'm surprised it conducts. Is that the way they're supposed to be or can that be cleaned off? I've tried rubbing but the stuff seems like the dried on mineral stain in a bath tub, doesn't budge.

Thanks for a great flashlight Peter!


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## bcwang (Apr 24, 2002)

I was reading through the posts and heard some mentioning of there being chemkote on the battery paks, is that true? I don't notice any at all, at least if there is it doesn't look like the way it does on the arc aaa.

Also, are all the LS's using HD or LD whites? I saw a mention of LD's being automatically delegated to seconds status if peter was to order them. So does that mean Peter buy's HD's to make firsts, but if they don't pass then they are used as seconds. And he actually doesn't use LD's but he was just contemplating buying them to make seconds since the HD's were in short supply?

I'm asking cause I'm wondering if my second is a LD or HD, with New or Old optics.

Thanks!


----------



## Gransee (Apr 24, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bcwang:
*I was reading through the posts and heard some mentioning of there being chemkote on the battery paks, is that true? I don't notice any at all, at least if there is it doesn't look like the way it does on the arc aaa.

Also, are all the LS's using HD or LD whites? I saw a mention of LD's being automatically delegated to seconds status if peter was to order them. So does that mean Peter buy's HD's to make firsts, but if they don't pass then they are used as seconds. And he actually doesn't use LD's but he was just contemplating buying them to make seconds since the HD's were in short supply?

I'm asking cause I'm wondering if my second is a LD or HD, with New or Old optics.

Thanks!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No High Dome (HD) flashlights are being made, we are still waiting on our LED shipments to come in. The firsts (and the seconds) are made from Low Dome (LD) parts.

We have LED orders pending that where placed 3 months ago. This product is in very high demand, we are trying our best to get them to you as soon as possible.

I expect the HD whites to come in around November. Some of the other HD colors may arrive sooner because they are in less demand.

To clarify: We will not be making High Dome whites until November. That is 6 months from now. We hope to make some of the other colors in HD before then if our shipments of LEDs arrive.

What is automatically being delegated to seconds status is the old optics. 

The "crud" you see in the battery packs is the chemkote in its current iteration. We hope to improve this over time to the level of the Arc-AAA. That is true for the whole flashlight.

We are currently out of LS seconds. We hope to have a few ready next week.

Remember, these lights are a very new technology. I recommend that most people wait until the technology is more mature (and more available).

Peter Gransee


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 24, 2002)

I have seen post mentioning trouble using Surefire 123's in the Arc-LS. I tried the same and had no problem at all. My LS likes SureFire batteries.


----------



## Roy (Apr 24, 2002)

For the "For What It's Worth Department"...just discovered that the LS battery holders will screw into the head of a E2! Got to find something to do with my time


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## lemlux (Apr 24, 2002)

Roy:

I suppose that means that we could buy just an E1 lamp assembly and bezel and run it off the ARC LS 2AA body.


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## Roy (Apr 24, 2002)

I didn't say it would work...just that they would screw together!


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## BigHonu (Apr 24, 2002)

The rambling begins.

I received my SLS on Monday and have had a couple of days to really take a look at it. 

Details:
SLS White #516 with new optics (I think…the one with the flat lens)

The following are my observations.

First Impressions:
WOW! This is pretty cool! Based on Mr. Gransee’s high standards I can see why this is a “second” from an appearance standpoint. Some of the lettering on the bezel is faded, there are some minor tool marks on the 123 pack, and there is some lint and small fingerprint marks (?) on the inside of the lens (but doesn’t appear to affect the beam). The anodizing is surprisingly close with all pieces except the 1AA pack which is a nice matte silver.

Good overall workmanship: no sharp or rough edges, knurling is even and shallow, all pieces fit to the head well (though were hard to twist together at first), everything is just SOLID.

Using it:
This light lives up to all of the praise it receives. I was happy with the output from all packs and especially pleased with how far out the light reaches. I am bad at estimating distances at night, but would say that the beam is still pretty good at 15 – 20 yards (2AA with lithiums, outside away from street lamps). 
For me, the 1AA pack is the perfect “around-the-house” light as it has a good blend of brightness and “throw”. The 2AA gets used when I go jogging at night, and the 123 pack is my EDC for its good size/output combination.
I couldn’t tell if the beam was off-centered, but if it is, it must be marginal. The light is white with just a hint of green in the corona. It makes the light from my Eternalight look blue, the light from the X5 look green, and the light from a Mag 2AA look very yellow.

Like everyone else here, I am happy with the ARC-LS and have adopted it into my list of things that I can’t leave home without.

I will definitely be looking forward to the High Dome version later this year…and maybe an X-treme version with more aggressive knurling, rubber “armor” and tailswitch…I can wish can't I?

The rambling ends.

Aloha


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## yclo (Apr 24, 2002)

BigHonu,

About the tailcap switch... check this thread.

YC


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## BigHonu (Apr 25, 2002)

yclo,

Thanks, forgot about that! 







Aloha


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## dark star (Apr 25, 2002)

I've had the white SLS for a day now, I'm beginning to feel some of Peter's pain concerning the LS. My old optics white LS does not have a smooth beam, but it is pure white and seems to be twice as bright (by eyeball) as the new optics LS. I checked the current that both use, hoping the new LS at least uses less juice. But no, both use the same current (0.45 amps with 1 NiMH if I read the scale right), the new optics is just less efficient ( of course the LED's vary from sample to sample). And the greenish tint with the new optics (seconds) is not as nice as the pure white I see with just about evey other LED flashlight. I also have a CYAN SLS, so far thats a winner. Smooth beam (narrow which is great for the outdoors), bright, uses the same power as the white LS's. Peter should really be cranking these out.


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## Darell (Apr 25, 2002)

Peter -

My LSs, which just arrived today, truly does amaze me. This is my first personal encounter with an LS of any flavor, and it thrills me to see where solid-state lighting (and your company) is headed. At 1/4 the size (or less), this thing puts my LW300 to shame! I'm still not the most comfortable with an "As-Is" $70 light though. I love the way it currently Is-As, but if it happens to fail a month or two or three down the line, I'd be pretty bummed. But that's my own decision that I need to work out (in seven days



)

My whole set is just about pefectly color-matched and the beam is well centered but has the green corona. None of the battery bodies screwed on without needing great, grinding force. But a few minutes with some lube and some swabs fixed that problem. Man this thing is tiny with the 123 pack. I'll have to tie my dog to it to keep from losing the thing.

I just thought of a form/function question: Why is there so much play in the ID of the AA holders? Most other AA lights are much tigher inside. Are there fatter AA's that you're trying to account for?

Thanks Peter (and for the EV fix too!)


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## JollyRoger (Apr 25, 2002)

Darell, Peter had mentioned in an earlier post somewhere that the inner diameter of the battery packs was to account for possible battery "swelling," etc. But I still think the inner diameter could be a bit less (or more...so I can use my "A" cells, which are the same length as the AA but 17mm in diameter, Peter!) But no worries. The retainer prevents battery rattle.


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## hotfoot (Apr 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mahoney:
*Hoping I'm not letting "a cat out of the bag" here but I am going to take a guess and say "an LED flashlight that's focusable by use of a reflector". 

Just this morning I was wishing my ARC SLS was focusable because sometimes I could use a wider pool of light for close up, and sometimes I wish I could make the hotspot smaller and get more "throw" to see stuff at a distance. That's the only thing I miss about the AA Mini-Mag.

I started thinking about how to use a moveable lense to focus the LS and my mind clicked back to reading about the side-emitting luxeon last evening. The light from a bare luxeon emitter goes mostly to the front. With little light going to the side a reflector has little to gather and focus. Thus the optical collimater usually used with the luxeon in flashlights. You could put a moving lense in front of the collimator to focus the flashlight, but this is not a perfect solution for a few reasons. 

First, adding a lense would cost some light output. Any lense loses some light, at least a few percent. There is also typicaly a direct relationship between lense cost and efficiency. The mechanics involved in moving a reflector to change the focus of a flashlight are a bit simpler than those involved in moving a lense and a good reflector is cheaper than a good lense and a bit more efficient than a cheap lense would be.

With all the light going to the side, a side emitting luxeon would be a good source if you were trying to make a focusable LS using a reflector, or that's my guess anyway.

P.S. Peter, if I have guessed correctly, any chance I can field test this one for you?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A focusable Arc-LS *would* be sweet indeed



But with a side-emitter, would it have a horrid "hole-in-the-middle"? Since no light is cast forwards, I would think that even with a good reflector, somewhere along in the beam you'd have a dark area. I worry a little too that the Arc-LS might lose some waterproofing ability if it were made focusable....


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## Roy (Apr 25, 2002)

I put a 3.6v Li battery in the single aa battery holder and the SLS worked just fine! The perceived brightness was about the same as 2 AA li or one 123 Li battery. Only problem with the 3.6v Li is the cost...$9.99 at Radio Shack...which is what we paid for them where I used to work and we bought them by the hundred lot!


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## lemlux (Apr 25, 2002)

Roy:

What sort of run time do you get at the ARC LS's high (for a 3.6 V AA) drain rate?

See my for for sale offer on the 3.6V AA's.

So far only Brock has chosen to buy a batch of 4.

Now I know that, besides doubling the brightness of my Infinity, I can run them as an alternative to the 123 on my key ring.

See also my posts on cheap batteries available at Industrial Liquidators in San Diego. I didn't mention it, but they also have a ugly looking (damaged skins) bunch of the Tadrian 3.6V AA's available in the $3 to $4 range also.


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## r2 (Apr 25, 2002)

www.spysupply007.com has 3.6v AA 2/$5.50 with free shipping. Same price for 123s.

My SLS spent a day in the penalty box when UPS misdirected it so I don't get it until tomorrow. At the same price are the 123s better than a single AA 3.6v? Sounds like brightness is the same. How do runtime and size/weight compare?

- Russ


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 25, 2002)

Look at it this way Darell,no mater what happens to the head,you have 3 battery packs that would cost almost $60 if you wanted to buy them.(In my case,I could care less about any differences in the anodizing)As the light and technology progress,you can buy another head(latest technology)with a warranty,and use the second for a backup light.Just because it is sold"as is" doesn't make it any more likely to fail.You better keep this light.After a few days,I realized that I could not get by without mine



(Even though I did send it to the bottom of the lake)


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## Roy (Apr 25, 2002)

I have done NO testing of the 3.6v battery other than to see if it would work. Can't bring myself to burn a ten dollar bill!




From the size of the battries, I would think that the run time of the 3.5v battery would be somewhere between the 123 and two AA's. By the way, TADIRAN is the brand sold by Radio Shack. They are made in Israel, so I wonder about short term supply!


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## Roy (Apr 25, 2002)

I found the wrapping for the 3.6v battery and it shows the battery rateing to 2.1 AH. I someone knows the power requirements of the LED, an estimate of the run time could be calculated.


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## Roy (Apr 25, 2002)

TEST REPORT

Ok...just wasted a $10.00 Battery! At the end of one hour the 3.6v li battery will generate enough light to read something by. The light is very green in color after one hour. Plus the SLS can be used as a hand warmer...not hot to the touch but very warm.

After being off for about 10 minutes it is generating about the same (to my eyes)amount of light as at the 30 minute mark. Seems to recover quite well.

Someone better setup to do testing ought to give this a shot.


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## hawkins1965 (Apr 25, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
[QB]A focusable Arc-LS *would* be sweet indeed



But with a side-emitter, would it have a horrid "hole-in-the-middle"? Since no light is cast forwards, I would think that even with a good reflector, somewhere along in the beam you'd have a dark area. ...QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That should not be a problem. Have you seen the Dorcy floatable LED flashlight Walmart sells? The top of the LED is actually grind to be on traslucent. But the light coming out on the side is focus but a good reflector. Althought the LED is dim, the light got so focused that it throws a long distance. And the light is focused to a tight spot without any dark spot. It's the same priciple as in as reflective telescope, just the reverse though.


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## r2 (Apr 26, 2002)

Sorry if someone has already asked this, I don't remember seeing a discussion.

Has anyone tried a 3.6v Lithium AA in the 1 AA battery pack for the LS? How does the brightness/runtime compare to the 123 pack? I've never used either, but it seems like this might give a nice combination of bright and lightweight.

- Russ


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## Graham (Apr 26, 2002)

Just got my Arc LS second..."First Run #374"..

I love it! I finally understand why everyone likes the 123 holder - it makes such a small, really bright light. Its great.




I like the 2AA holder too - has a great, solid feel to it - you can grip it properly.

Mine has a slight green tint, but nothing to complain about. The HA for the head and 2AA body match fairly well, but the 1AA and 123 holders are a bit lighter.

Anyway, very happy with this light - as has been said before, its a 'keeper'.

Graham


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## dark star (Apr 26, 2002)

At first I didn't like the pea green tint with this batch of seconds, but now I like it. I now call it mint green tint and it's a feature. The tint is great for reading- paper that has a green tint is much easier on the eyes.


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## Gransee (Apr 26, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by James Lechago:
*Mr. Gransee, I have been lurking on the Candlepower forums for some time now, but this is the first time that I feel that I can contribute something to a discusion. Actually what I want to suggest is the possibility of using silicon gel in the LED compartment of your Arc LS flashlights. The idea occured to me when changing the electronic choils in my wife's car. I took one apart and saw that the compartment that housed the electronics is filled with an optically clear silicon gel that appears to be used as a heat sink. 
Since the Luxeon Star already uses a clear silicon gel inside the actual LED why not consider filling the LED compartment of the Arc LS with this gel? The gel would probably be a good heat sink for the LED and the electronics. If the compartment could be filled with this evenly, the more efficient high dome emitters and even the new 5 watt LED's might be practical in the current flashlight confugurations. What do you (all of you), think?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Welcome to the CPF James. We like people who post good ideas. Come out all you lurkers!

The stock prismatic lense utilizes the index of refraction of the plastic to angle the beam. Any substance with an index of refraction greater than air decreases the efficiency of the lens. We tried clear epoxy, tape, 2-part modeling plastic, and even water. They all made the light output decrease noticably (and to a surprising level).

Rev 2 of the LS will have a polycarbonate ("lexan") lens with a scratch resistant coating. This is primarily to waterproof the optics. Based on the Troy Webber's lake research (another thread), we think rev2 could be rated in excess of 50ft with no problem. Rev2 is 3 months out.

As far as increasing the heat sinking of the LED, there are several possibilities...

Peter


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 26, 2002)

Hey dark star-when I first got my second,I was a little disappointed in the green corona.Mostly because everyone else seemed to revile it.I figured it must be really bad.But,now I really like the color.I got to thinking how I paid extra for an LE aaa to have the greenish tint.The beam of my LS looks like a giant version of my LE.A pure white beam would probably look brighter,but mine is plenty bright as it is.I'm keeping it!
troy


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## dark star (Apr 26, 2002)

Now I want to get a white LS with a violet tint - good thing the LS's are out of stock or I would spend all my money getting the different colors.


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## BigHonu (Apr 26, 2002)

Can you guys tell the difference between the green corona and the violet corona in everyday use? I had to shine my light on a white wall and stare at it for awhile to notice the slight green tint (maybe I have trouble seeing that wavelength....).

Aloha


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## Gransee (Apr 26, 2002)

*Update:*

We now have a small number of LS seconds in stock. Colors available are white, cyan, blue and red.

Peter Gransee


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## Rid (Apr 27, 2002)

Mr. Gransee, I have been lurking on the Candlepower forums for some time now, but this is the first time that I feel that I can contribute something to a discusion. Actually what I want to suggest is the possibility of using silicon gel in the LED compartment of your Arc LS flashlights. The idea occured to me when changing the electronic choils in my wife's car. I took one apart and saw that the compartment that housed the electronics is filled with an optically clear silicon gel that appears to be used as a heat sink. 
Since the Luxeon Star already uses a clear silicon gel inside the actual LED why not consider filling the LED compartment of the Arc LS with this gel? The gel would probably be a good heat sink for the LED and the electronics. If the compartment could be filled with this evenly, the more efficient high dome emitters and even the new 5 watt LED's might be practical in the current flashlight confugurations. What do you (all of you), think?


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## Sean (Apr 28, 2002)

Do you have the darker HA 123 battery tubes/holders yet?


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## Gransee (Apr 28, 2002)

No, those should be ready a week from now.

Peter


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## Darell (Apr 28, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Troy Webber:
*I got to thinking how I paid extra for an LE aaa to have the greenish tint.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now there is a comment to make you think!

Thanks for the comments to my posts, everybody.

If you want to see the color of the corona better, hold the light flat against a white surface (wall works well).

Been gone for a while. I'm back but beat! I'll get back into the flow in a bit...


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 28, 2002)

Well Darell.Are you gonna keep it or not?(just curious)
troy


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## Ron Schroeder (Apr 30, 2002)

Hi Peter,

I have been using my SLS (#411) for a while now and really love it.

Beam is nice and smooth an well centered. The finish on the battery holders don't match (duh, I told peter that beam was more important to me than finish). The 123 and the 2AA are about the same shade as the head but a more matt texture. The 1AA is a little lighter. All in all, they are a very good match for my military vehicle.

The only problem is that the 123 battery compartment has to be turned VERY hard to light (at least with Rayovac cells). The recess in the rubber ring and the spacer is too deep so the rubber has to be really smashed to make contact. Without batteries, all of the holders thread on easilly. I put a small blob of solder on the 123 cell and it works a lot better. I also wrapped the cell with tape to center it better.

Are there any plans to make the rubber or the spacer under it any thinner?

Now back to letting the cat chase the LS beam


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## Gransee (Apr 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ron Schroeder:
*Hi Peter,

I have been using my SLS (#411) for a while now and really love it.

Beam is nice and smooth an well centered. The finish on the battery holders don't match (duh, I told peter that beam was more important to me than finish). The 123 and the 2AA are about the same shade as the head but a more matt texture. The 1AA is a little lighter. All in all, they are a very good match for my military vehicle.

The only problem is that the 123 battery compartment has to be turned VERY hard to light (at least with Rayovac cells). The recess in the rubber ring and the spacer is too deep so the rubber has to be really smashed to make contact. Without batteries, all of the holders thread on easilly. I put a small blob of solder on the 123 cell and it works a lot better. I also wrapped the cell with tape to center it better.

Are there any plans to make the rubber or the spacer under it any thinner?

Now back to letting the cat chase the LS beam



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! Yes, we have thinner retainers but then the AA packs rattle. We did fix the centering issue in future heads by chamfering the ring around the pcb.

Since there is no easy fix to making so many batteries work well, I am toying with concentrating on making the 123 cells work best while having the AA cells rattle.

Peter Gransee


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## Roy (Apr 30, 2002)

I found the answer to the 123 problem with my SLS #466....put a small wad of aluminium foil in the BOTTOM of the 123 battery holder! It seems that the problem ( on mine anyway) is that the negative end of the battery is not always making contact with the bottom of the battery holder. Try the foil trick and see if it works in yours. It works with mine using Panasonic and Energizer E2 battries. The E2's didn't need the foil but works just fine with it.


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## Ron Schroeder (Apr 30, 2002)

Hi Roy,

That is not the problem with mine. The negative end of the battery makes very good contact.


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## Darell (Apr 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Troy Webber:
*Well Darell.Are you gonna keep it or not?(just curious)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For several reasons, I'm actually thinking of selling it. None of the reasons have to do with the function of the light or with my "As-Is" fears though. Although I could still send the LS back to Peter, I won't go that route. If I sell it, I can make somebody happy right away (without waiting for the Arc ordering system to become active), and I won't have to hassle Peter with the return. Plus I alwasy seem to make a new friend when I do a buy/sell/trade thing - and Peter is already my friend


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## this_is_nascar (Apr 30, 2002)

I ordered my white LS-2nd the other night and received notification that it shipped today. I can wait.

For you folks that have the 2nd's already, what battery setup do you find yourself using mostly and why?

I also received by SureFire E2E today. Pretty nice light. What (if anything) should I see comparing my E2E to my LS as it relates to beam power and total runtime per a set of batteries?


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## The_LED_Museum (Apr 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
*For you folks that have the 2nd's already, what battery setup do you find yourself using mostly and why?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For economy, I use the 2-AA tube. And for brightness & size, the 123 tube. I seem to use the two about equally, and haven't even touched the 1-AA tube. This might be a viable option in a setting where batteries might be hard to come by and when you don't need something eye-stabbing bright; but I have not yet found myself in such a situation.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Apr 30, 2002)

I use the 123 tube, but the 2AA tube is an attractive option. The E2e is brighter than the LS, with a more intense hotspot, but it has greatly reduced runtime compared to the LS. The LS has a nice gentle blanket of light, whereas the E2e has a little more throw to the light it produces. The good thing is that you can use your 'dead' batteries from the E2e in your LS and get 1/2 hour more light out of them.

Eric


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## bucken (Apr 30, 2002)

Hi Ron,

That was a great tip about the blob of solder on the battery tip to make the 123 battery pack work smoother. I had the exact same problem. Just tried your "fix" and it worked great! Started out with a little too much solder, but you can file it down to just the perfect feel. I can turn it on and off with only one hand now. Thanks!!!





Peter, is it possible to obtain one of the thinner rings? The light is definately a keeper, in any event.


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 30, 2002)

It is not a fair comparison to compare the E2 with the Arc-LS. I have an E-2 and love it, just would not compare the two. The proper comparison would be with an E-1, 3volt vs 3 volt and in the same size class. I have the E-1 as well. I think the Arc-LS is far more useable the E-1. Rather than compare the E-2 and the Arc-Ls, they should be contrasted then the complement each other.

Since getting my First LS, I have been packing an E-2 on the belt and Arc-LS in the pocket everyday. The two are different enough that one does something better than the other but use a common battery.

Team up your 6 or 9 volt SureFire with an Arc-LS, they are a great team, not competion for each other.


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## Chuen (Apr 30, 2002)

Can somebody tell me if the current ARC seconds have the 123 pack issue fixed? I'll be using the 123 pack and panasonic brand battery exclusively. I'm looking into ordering the ARC but the issue with 123 pack turns me off. Thanks.


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## Gransee (Apr 30, 2002)

Helo Chuen. No, we haven't fixed it completely yet. I have 8 different brands of 123 here for testing. Most don't work or work with difficulty. Usually the quickest fix is to remove the foam retainer on the inside of the head. This makes all the 123 brands work but causes AA packs to rattle. If the light is only intended for 123 use, this is ok, otherwise it is a pain. 

We are working on several improvements but this is a tough egg to crack so there is no magic bullet yet.

Peter


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## JonSidneyB (Apr 30, 2002)

I have been using the 123 pack for a couple of weeks now with not a bit of problem. The 123 pack is a perfect fit to the keychain or watchpocket.


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## Gransee (Apr 30, 2002)

*Update:*

The quality of the LS heads are continuing to improve. Still not were we want to be but, progress never the less. 

Some of the LS back orders actually where shipped today. These where orders with just the 2AA pack. We are still waiting on the 1AA and 123 packs to finish.

The new 123 packs should be finished with chemkote tomorrow morning and go back for HA plating on Friday. The end of next week we might be ready to ship them. 

The new 1AA packs are starting to come out of the CNC machine today. They look different this time around. It will probally 2 weeks before they are plated, etc and ready to ship.

The LS is now our main focus. We used to be driven by the Arc-AAA but now the LS is where our R&D is heavily spent. Long hours are being spent coming up with improvements to this program. We have evaluated dozens of designs. In the past week, I have faxed at least one new design to the machine shop per day. New circuit designs are also being spun out over on the PCB side of the operation. Now that I have streamlined our product line and freed up some time, our LS design rate has really started to accelerate.

Peter Gransee


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## Graham (Apr 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Update:

Some of the LS back orders actually where shipped today. These where orders with just the 2AA pack. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And mine was one of these! Back to watching the mailbox. Can't wait! Really looking forward to getting my cyan one..

Graham


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## Roy (May 1, 2002)

On the Panasonic battries I was't getting the little circle etched into the bottom of the battery from the "cookie cutter" in the bottom of the battery holder. The Panasonic battery seems to have a thicker casing on the battery which holds the negative plate of the battery higher off the bottom of the battery holder.


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## Roy (May 1, 2002)

123 Battery Problem

Putting a small wad of aluminium foil in the bottom of the 123 battery holder has fixed my battery problem. Now with the wad of foil I can use Sure Fire and Panasonic battries where I could not before. 

Try the wad of foil before putting solder on the battery! If the foil works, it is a one time fix and not something that has to be done every time you change batttries.


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## Ron Schroeder (May 2, 2002)

After sitting down with a depth gauge, a binocular microscope, a couple of 123s and the LS head, I think I know of a fix for the stiff turn on problem. 

1. Put a 2mm tall contact on the center of the PC board where the battery nipple makes contact.

2. Make the rubber retainer 2mm thicker. (A teflon coating would help too.)

This keeps the rattle resistance the same but leaves more "stroke" in the compression of the rubber so it doesn't bottom out with short nipple batteries.

For the poor contact on the negative end with some brands of batteries, either raise the cookie cutter (batteries shouldn't crush with the thicker rubber retainer) or put a conical spiral spring in the bottom of the 123 holder.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (May 4, 2002)

I recieved my LS second yestarday. I was impressed with my first run #135 that I recieved the first time peter sold any. But I tell you, the LS second that I recieved yestarday is a definate cut above. The first thing that I noticed is that LS second has improved optics. I definately like the flat lens better than the old one. so the first thing that I did was put a piece o write right paper over it. The LS second is at least twice as bright with a very smooth beam. The LS second does have the green cornia. But it is only noticable if you put it against a wall. If I had only reived the 2AA tube I would be really wondering why it is a second. The treads on the 123 tube do not stop like normal, but it works fine. And the finish is diferent on the 1AA, and 123 tube. I am using Rayovac 123's, and I have the same problem as before. No problem with Duracells, except the price. I think the mods that I did to my old LS will get done to this one. 1-thin the foam retainer, 2-add a thin o-ring to the bottom of the tubes. takes away battery rattle, and makes it easier to turn on the light. I know have 1st Run 135, and 406.


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## Xenon (May 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roy:
*123 Battery Problem

Putting a small wad of aluminium foil in the bottom of the 123 battery holder has fixed my battery problem. Now with the wad of foil I can use Sure Fire and Panasonic battries where I could not before. 

Try the wad of foil before putting solder on the battery! If the foil works, it is a one time fix and not something that has to be done every time you change batttries.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Placing a washer at the bottom of the 123 pack helps a bit too.

For the best results with 123s that don't work (eg Panasonic, SF123), I just remove the piece of black plastic at the positive end of those 123. Duracells do not have the black plastic piece though, that's why it works in the 123 pack in the first place.

Hope this helps a bit..


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## bwcaw (May 4, 2002)

Peter, any idea when the new heads(more water resistant) will be available?

P.S. I REALLY love the arc ls that you sent 
me, it is the coolest light i have now!


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## hotfoot (May 4, 2002)

Peter,

Is there any way I can order a few foam retainer rings from you? I've torn mine up experimenting with different batteries.

Say, has anyone else tried a Panasonic 3.6V 110mAh ni-cd with their Arc-Ls yet? about AA-sized and pretty bright - about 30min runtime only, though. This is the thing that ripped up my foam ring...


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## Willmore (May 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
*Say, has anyone else tried a Panasonic 3.6V 110mAh ni-cd with their Arc-Ls yet? about AA-sized and pretty bright - about 30min runtime only, though. This is the thing that ripped up my foam ring...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what brand it was--I got it for $.50 at a ham fest a few years ago--but it's AA sized and has three NiCd cells in it--probably 200 mAh or so. Ran for about 40 minutes quite brightly. Not a bad little toy, but for the $.99 that Electronics Gold mine charges for 123s these days, why bother?


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## hotfoot (May 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willmore:
*I don't know what brand it was--I got it for $.50 at a ham fest a few years ago--but it's AA sized and has three NiCd cells in it--probably 200 mAh or so. Ran for about 40 minutes quite brightly. Not a bad little toy, but for the $.99 that Electronics Gold mine charges for 123s these days, why bother?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like what I've got - but you paid 50cents? I blew 10 times that! Okie - first and last time for me  Anyways, just an experiment - I still like my 123s too


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## Gransee (May 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
*Peter,

Is there any way I can order a few foam retainer rings from you? I've torn mine up experimenting with different batteries.

Say, has anyone else tried a Panasonic 3.6V 110mAh ni-cd with their Arc-Ls yet? about AA-sized and pretty bright - about 30min runtime only, though. This is the thing that ripped up my foam ring...*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, they are free but the shipping is not. You can send us either a SASE or ask us to include it with your next order (use the comments field of the order please).

Peter


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## Flagone (May 5, 2002)

*null**The LS second is at least twice as bright with a very smooth beam.*

Ledlight, do you mean your new LS second is twice as bright as your old one?

Is it due to the narrower beam or is it something to do with the led?


----------



## Willmore (May 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
*Sounds like what I've got - but you paid 50cents? I blew 10 times that! Okie - first and last time for me  Anyways, just an experiment - I still like my 123s too



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ham fests are just Amateur radio oriented flea markets. You take your chances on if you'll find something and what shape it'll be in. It's not hard to find really out of date stuff in pristine condition--if you look hard and long enough. It's also possible to go years not finding something simple.

I've sort of got an interest in batteries, so I picked this pack up *years* ago when I thought I'd use it in my Yaesu VX-1R radio.

My current dream is to get one of these single AA packs (thanks Peter!) bored out for AE sized cells and another bored out for a AA length, 20mm dia Li-ion cell. Should be able to fit the charge/discharge control ckt on a little PCB. That would be very cool.


----------



## hawkins1965 (May 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willmore:
*I don't know what brand it was--I got it for $.50 at a ham fest a few years ago--but it's AA sized and has three NiCd cells in it--probably 200 mAh or so. Ran for about 40 minutes quite brightly. Not a bad little toy, but for the $.99 that Electronics Gold mine charges for 123s these days, why bother?



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now where is this Electronic Gold mine place now? Is iton the web? I need to get some of those cheap 123 batteries.


----------



## napalm-2002 (May 6, 2002)

yeah mee too and for the love of God no one say Botach!


----------



## Gransee (May 6, 2002)

Ah.. Hamfests! Good deals and nice people. I've been to a few in AZ so far. Got a good deal on a icom 2m and some solar panels. 

About 123s... I have been using the Quest NiMH 123s for the past couple of months with no problem. Just remove the retainer to make them work with the stock pack. In normal use, I can go over a month on a set of 4 fully charged. My white LS with rechargable 123 is brighter than the X5 (with 2 lithium 123s I might add) I bought at Frys.

I asked our plater if they could do our LS in a nice, "titanium" anodize finish like the X5. He said, "yeah if you don't mind using a weaker typeII". Ok no.

Btw, Good stuff happening in Arc land...





Peter


----------



## hotfoot (May 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Good stuff happening in Arc land...





Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooh - that's a titillating snippet - what sort of Good Stuff, Peter - please share


----------



## dark star (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
* Btw, Good stuff happening in Arc land...





Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't care what it is, I want one. Lets start a list...

*dark star 1*


----------



## BigHonu (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Btw, Good stuff happening in Arc land...




Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I'm gonna go broke...

Aloha


----------



## Willmore (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hawkins1965:
*Now where is this Electronic Gold mine place now? Is iton the web? I need to get some of those cheap 123 batteries.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

*sigh* don't people use search engines any more?





http://www.goldmine-elec.com 

Nice place for surplus stuff. Along with http://www.bgmicro.com/ and http://www.allelectronics.com/ 

I'm sure there are more, but we'll quickly get off topic.


----------



## this_is_nascar (May 7, 2002)

I recieved my LS 2nd today. Not too bad. My biggest complaint is the force in which I need to use in order to get the light to come on when using the 123-battery module. Has anyone else noticed this or is it specifi to my 1st run #391 unit.

Also, I'm not real crazy about the tone of the color (white). It seems to be more of a greenish shade, instead of that really white color that I'm used to from my SF E2E. I'm going to keep it at any rate.

My biggest challenge now is to determine which light I will carry everyday. The AAA will be with me always. That goes without saying. I'm torn between the LS-2nd, 1E1, 2E2 and M2. I want something handy that has a fair amount of usefull lighting, but don't want to be bogged down with a bunch of gear. I already carry a pager and cell phone everyday.


----------



## this_is_nascar (May 7, 2002)

As you already know, I recieved my first LS-2nd today. Should I expect all the "cool" things that make up an LS in this 2nd? For example, should I expect good battery life with sun/moon mode, should I expect the unit to be water proof up to a few feet, should I expect it to feature all the benefits "as advertised" on the web site?


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (May 7, 2002)

Flagone: I have been away for a few days. Yes the LS second that I just recieved is by a geat deal brighter than the beta I recieved after x-mass. It has a smoother beam and better optics. It is centered really well. I like the flat optics a lot better than the origional optics. Place a piece of write right over it as soon as you get it. I love it.
P.S. Peter, my wife recieved her AAA today. I had forgot about it. I came home from work saw it around her neck, and thought she had managed to steel mine. thanks again.


----------



## this_is_nascar (May 7, 2002)

"Place a piece of write right over it as soon as you get it."

What does this mean? What is "write"?


----------



## Carpe Diem (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dark star:
*I don't care what it is, I want one. Lets start a list...

dark star 1*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Continuing the list...I`ll take six (6) of them!


*Dark Star 1*
*Carpe Diem 6*


----------



## Darell (May 7, 2002)

*
Dark Star 1
Carpe Diem 6
Darell (As many as will dim)*


----------



## Graham (May 7, 2002)

*
Dark Star 1
Carpe Diem 6
Darell (As many as will dim)
Graham 2, probably more*

Wait a minute..what are we making a list for? Ah well, doesn't matter I guess. This is an Arc topic, so I'll probably want whatever it is..





Graham


----------



## Carpe Diem (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*
Dark Star 1
Carpe Diem 6
Darell (As many as will dim)
Graham 2, probably more

Wait a minute..what are we making a list for? Ah well, doesn't matter I guess. This is an Arc topic, so I'll probably want whatever it is..





Graham*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Boy, I can hardly wait...for whatever it is!

God bless Peter Gransee!


----------



## snakebite (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Ah.. Hamfests! Good deals and nice people. I've been to a few in AZ so far. Got a good deal on a icom 2m and some solar panels. 

About 123s... I have been using the Quest NiMH 123s for the past couple of months with no problem. Just remove the retainer to make them work with the stock pack. In normal use, I can go over a month on a set of 4 fully charged. My white LS with rechargable 123 is brighter than the X5 (with 2 lithium 123s I might add) I bought at Frys.

I asked our plater if they could do our LS in a nice, "titanium" anodize finish like the X5. He said, "yeah if you don't mind using a weaker typeII". Ok no.

Btw, Good stuff happening in Arc land...





Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

didnt know you are a ham.
whats your call?
kc8adu here.


----------



## Darell (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by snakebite:
*didnt know you are a ham.
whats your call?
kc8adu here.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

KE6IYV here. My wife is KE6IYW.


----------



## Gransee (May 7, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by snakebite:
*didnt know you are a ham.
whats your call?
kc8adu here.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was back during my "ham" phase. I bought the Icom, took the tests. I only got my basic (I should have read the study guide) so I couldn't use the 2meter. So after I had "kirchunked" all the local repeaters to my hearts delight, I traded it for something (can't remember what). I was going to go back and finish the tests so I could dx, but then I got into college and didn't have the time anymore.

I still have my basic license around somewhere, no idea what the call sign is though. I still have quite a facination for radio (a big field with a lot of room for developement) but lately the wacky ideas have centered around cell network, UWB, radar, jam proof, etc. Yah know?

Oh yeah, I was using the Internet back when it was called "CB". Copy good buddy?

Peter


----------



## Ron Schroeder (May 8, 2002)

Me too, WD8CDH. Wife is KA8TKA


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (May 8, 2002)

The 123 battery holder. Is Arc looking at this problem from the right end?

Last week I got an Arc LS second and had little problem using it with an Energizer lithium 123. I did notice that the "wrap" on the battery left an imprint on the bottom of the 123 battery holder. So clearly the wrap was contacting the bottom of the battery compartment before the nub contacted the battery's negative terminal. Yesterday I got some Panasonic 123s and was unable to get them to light at all. Remembering the imprint I saw from the 123 cell wrap I cut off some of the wrap/case from the Panasonic cell. Put the cell back in and it worked fine.

All of the talk I've read about fixing the 123 case centers on the foam/bumper at the head. I think that's probably OK and we just need a taller nub at the bottom of the 123 cell case.

Sorry if this was covered already.


----------



## bcwang (May 8, 2002)

Oh no, I may have damaged my LS. When I first got my SLS white, it was very bright, way brighter than the inova x5. One day I had it in my pocket and it was on for a long time because when I leaned against the chair I felt something really hot. So I took it out and let it cool. It didn't seeem bright anymore so I thought the batteries were just low. So when I finally ran those down, I put in a new set of batteries. But now it doesn't seem bright anymore. It's barely brighter than the X5 now. Did the heat damage the LED so quickly? Anyone else experience their LS dimming compared to when brand new?


----------



## hawkins1965 (May 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willmore:
**sigh* don't people use search engines any more?




http://www.goldmine-elec.com 

Nice place for surplus stuff. Along with http://www.bgmicro.com/ and http://www.allelectronics.com/ 

I'm sure there are more, but we'll quickly get off topic.



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All right, all right! SOrry now, OK?!?! BUt I know I can always rely on my fellow CPFer's for quick answers. And I got some answers now. Am I right or what?


----------



## Gransee (May 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by haydoncpf:
*The 123 battery holder. Is Arc looking at this problem from the right end?

Last week I got an Arc LS second and had little problem using it with an Energizer lithium 123. I did notice that the "wrap" on the battery left an imprint on the bottom of the 123 battery holder. So clearly the wrap was contacting the bottom of the battery compartment before the nub contacted the battery's negative terminal. Yesterday I got some Panasonic 123s and was unable to get them to light at all. Remembering the imprint I saw from the 123 cell wrap I cut off some of the wrap/case from the Panasonic cell. Put the cell back in and it worked fine.

All of the talk I've read about fixing the 123 case centers on the foam/bumper at the head. I think that's probably OK and we just need a taller nub at the bottom of the 123 cell case.

Sorry if this was covered already.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, covered. The latest batch of 123 packs has a much higher negative contact. 

We are also changing the retainer, again..

Peter


----------



## The_LED_Museum (May 8, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
*"Place a piece of write right over it as soon as you get it."

What does this mean? What is "write"?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>





This is actually a plastic material called "Write Right" that is made to be applied to the monitor or viewscreen of palm pilots and other portable handheld computers. It is designed to protect the monitor from scratching when you "write" on it with a stylus. 

The thin, flexible, transparent plastic material has a slighty stippled texture to it that smooths out the beam of whatever flashlight you apply it to the lens of, while not severely affecting the overall brightness.

Office supply stores should carry this product.


----------



## Sean (May 9, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*Yes, covered. The latest batch of 123 packs has a much higher negative contact. 

We are also changing the retainer, again..

Peter*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let us know when these are available to purchase, also let us know if these are the darker HA color.


----------



## LEDagent (May 10, 2002)

Hey Gransee....what colors are avilable right now for the ARC LS? I'm thinking about getting a blue one via money order. THanks.


----------



## dark star (May 10, 2002)

I got a blue LS - very bright, solid beam, quite nice ( if you like blue ! )


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## Gransee (May 10, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
*Hey Gransee....what colors are avilable right now for the ARC LS? I'm thinking about getting a blue one via money order. THanks.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I will post when the next batch comes off the line of white or any other color. 

Peter


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## cave dave (May 11, 2002)

Split 223's work better in Arc LS.

Lots of info about splitting 223 into two 123 batteries on the battery section of CPF. Not only can you save money but after you wrap them with electrical tape both the negative end and the positive ends make better contact in the Arc 123 battery case.

This works because the + end sticks up farther and the - end contacts the nub better.
Now that I think about it you wouldn't need to even wrap them in tape. You do need to do it for surefires though.


----------



## LEDagent (May 11, 2002)

What color should i get? I already have the Lambda Illuminator as a white LED torch, and that's plenty white light already. I have an E2 as EDC but the expense of batteries and run time for that thing leaves me hesitant leaving that thing on for long periods of time. I also EDC an EV Arc AAA, but the color of the light doesn't fair well for utility with other people that need light. I would EDC my Lambda but considering that its a little over 7 inches doesn't quite make it comfortable in my pockets. So even tho i have a VERY strong LS driven torch, i still need an LS to EDC. 

So with that said, what color whould i get? The white would of course be nice, but are there any other colors that can be used for utility? I might end up just getting a white one, but novelty colors are so cool!

The EV Arc AAA is a little TOO green for my tastes. It almost hurts my eyes after a while looking at green for so long. How does blue or cyan work on human eyes? How do you feel about those colors? I think i'm going to sell my Arc AAA EV soon too. So if you want it for 20 bucks....let me know. 

Oh yea...its a 3.0 version.


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## dark star (May 11, 2002)

The cyan LS is even greener then the EV- but I think is a great light (from reading all the posts I think I'm the only champion of the cyan LS). The blue LS is also very bright-and I hear the eye is very sensitive to blue-but the eye also has a hard time focusing the blue light- things seem fuzzy. These lights are so bright, much more so then the white LS, they are really mainly useful outside.


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## BigHonu (May 11, 2002)

darkstar,

From all of the pictures I've seen, I would have to agree with you about the cyan. Great color. Now if I could only get one...and an orange-red...and a green...

Glad to hear that you like the blue, as I ordered one but haven't heard too many comments about it. How do you like the color outdoors compared to the cyan?

Aloha


----------



## LEDagent (May 11, 2002)

I think i'm just gonna give in and get a white LS. So i'm conservative...sue me. 

ANyway, at 75 dollars, i have no time AND money to be buying stuff just for novelty sake. I'd rather spend that much money for something that will serve me well. And i think color retention is the best way to go.


----------



## Carpe Diem (May 12, 2002)

Hi LEDagent...

I`d recommend that you get the white Arc LS. I have LS`s in white, cyan, red, orange-red HD, and blue, and they`re all fun to use. I find myself always going back to my white LS, however, when I actually "need" a flashlight, and its the most-used part of my edc.

Having said that, though, you should also get the other colors as quickly as your pocketbook permits, while they`re still available.

Ah...the joy and agony of being a flashaholic.

Best wishes to you!


----------



## dark star (May 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigHonu:
* How do you like the color[blue] outdoors compared to the cyan?
Aloha*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
When I hike at night I switch between the cyan and blue. After a minute or so I do not see the color(I guess that is how the eye works), it just seems like some weird white. The cyan seems a little brighter, also the trail seems a little sharper. But I would rather use the blue then the white.


----------



## TrevorNasko (May 12, 2002)

the green is awsome outdoors! but then you will never experience that as i have the only green


----------



## Graham (May 12, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aragorn:
*the green is awsome outdoors! but then you will never experience that as i have the only green



*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, actually my cyan LS is so close to green in colour that I thought Peter had made a mistake - its colour is very close to yours, from the photos I've seen.
Peter says that some of the cyan ones did have a very green tint.
So yours may not the as unique as you thought..

Graham


----------



## LEDagent (May 13, 2002)

I have enoegh money in my reserve now to buy two LSs. I know I will be getting the white one when they are available. But i'm torn between the Cyan or Blue...and Red. 

Looking at Aragorn's pictures of the white LS compared to the red one at 30 feet, the red totally kicks butt! I wonder if the Cyan or Blue would be visually brighter than the red. I'm guessing the Cyan would blow everything out of the water.

I'm going on anther comping trip this August. I want to be able to use my E2, HID Light Cannon, Lambda Illuminator, and a Cyan or Blue Arc LS, and see how they hold up on trails. I'm excited.
-----

if you have the Cyan, white, and blue LSs, why do you choose the blue over all the rest? Blue is such a cool color though! Is it a deep blue?


----------



## dark star (May 13, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
[QBif you have the Cyan, white, and blue LSs, why do you choose the blue over all the rest? Blue is such a cool color though! Is it a deep blue?[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, I have all three. The blue was an impulse buy when I read they would be discontinued. To me it seems a deep blue, I do like it but it is not as practical as the white or cyan.


----------



## hotfoot (May 14, 2002)

Peter,

I realized that since the couple of cases where water had entered the Arc-LSs illuminator head, you've updated the Arc website to state that the LS is not waterproof, only weatherproof/water resistant. I also know you're working on several new designs to ensure that you can reinstate the Arc-LS as waterproof.

I was wondering if the Arc-firsts that roll off the line now are waterproof to 50' as advertised before, and if the firsts that become available from November will be waterproof as well.

Final question - will the new white firsts coming in November still be green-tinted as is now?

Thanks....


----------



## Gransee (May 14, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hotfoot:
*Peter,

I realized that since the couple of cases where water had entered the Arc-LSs illuminator head, you've updated the Arc website to state that the LS is not waterproof, only weatherproof/water resistant. I also know you're working on several new designs to ensure that you can reinstate the Arc-LS as waterproof.

I was wondering if the Arc-firsts that roll off the line now are waterproof to 50' as advertised before, and if the firsts that become available from November will be waterproof as well.

Final question - will the new white firsts coming in November still be green-tinted as is now?

Thanks....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The firsts being made now are not waterproof either. We should have some new designs in production by November. 

I imagine that the firsts will still have at least some greenish tint for awhile yet. Not until we start getting the HD units will the tint improve. Those may not arrive until November.

Peter Gransee


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 15, 2002)

I gave one of my Arc-LS's to the Hancock County Sheriff Nick Gulling today. He was very impressed. I have alot of respect for the local sheriffs department that I had to give him the one in my pocket. 

Now I can't wait to see the high domes.
I hope a 123 battery pack will appear that is designed from the ground up to be carried on a key chain.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 15, 2002)

I wonder if I am close to setting the record for Arc-LS seconds. I originally ordered one I think. Then two more and gave one to my father. Ordered two more for some people to make c and d cell battery packs. Gave one to the local Sheriff. Ordered two more just now, one for a deputy in Marion County Indiana one more for myself. I think that makes 7 white LS seconds ordered by me.


----------



## this_is_nascar (May 15, 2002)

Are the white 2nd's still available?


----------



## Darell (May 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:
*I wonder if I am close to setting the record for Arc-LS seconds. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yikes! Soon you'll have as many LS's as I have AAA's. Scary.


----------



## BuddTX (May 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
* Not until we start getting the HD units will the tint improve. Those may not arrive until November.
Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Peter, 

What are the HD Units?

Thanks


----------



## Sean (May 15, 2002)

Peter, since you have a HD to test can you tell us what you think of it so far?

Is the tint better? 
Is is brighter?
Does it need an optic collimator? If not what's the beam angle?


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 16, 2002)

darell
You don't want to know how many Arc-AAA's I have.


----------



## JonSidneyB (May 16, 2002)

I am interested in knowing more about the upcomming HD's. Someone bring us up to speed.

Maybe its to early to answer these question but any answer will do for now.

Will run times be the same?
Will the heads work with existing heads?
How bright will it be roughly in the white version with 123's or two AA's?
How bright with a single AA?


----------



## The_LED_Museum (May 16, 2002)

I just received my LS second in royal blue, and I'm thoroughly impressed with the sheer amount of intense, vibrant, deep royal blue light pours out of that thing! I can't wait till the sun goes down so I can try it out in the dark.






In the meantime, I stuck it in a Pelican holder and stuck that to the dashboard of my Rascal scooter. The royal blue color is very unusual and eye-popping, to say the least. And anything that fluoresces visibly just goes apes**t in the beam of this photonic monster.





Oh, and it's *First Run #029* for anyone who's keeping track of those things.





Also ordered a blue Arc-AAA to go with it before they're gone, so I now have Arc-AAA's in white, green, and blue. If I had the money (such as if my camera didn't F%$*#ING BLOW UP ON ME!!!), I'd have ordered one in every color. O well, can't win 'em all I guess.


----------



## BigHonu (May 16, 2002)

Craig,

Glad to hear that you like the blue! I have one “on hold” right now (hope it ships out soon!) and can’t wait to get it. So will you be updating your review page to include some information on the blue LS?


Aloha


----------



## Gransee (May 17, 2002)

We have some more LS seconds in stock this weekend!


Peter


----------



## LEDagent (May 18, 2002)

Gransee, what colors? I'm excited! I'll need to make out a money order and try to send it out today so that i can reserve one. WOO HOO!








I just got back from watching Star Wars Episode II. Its 3:11am in the west coast! Now i'm really craving an cyan Arc LS. I'll make that a light saber somehow.



Who had a green light saber in that movie? I can't remember.


----------



## Graham (May 18, 2002)

That royal blue LS sounds pretty good. Any chance of any more of those, Peter?

Graham


----------



## BigHonu (May 18, 2002)

Mr. Gransee,

Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to post here.

With that said, I AM DIEING OVER HERE!!!!!!! Please don't tease us with more seconds. I have been RELIGOUSLY checking the Arc site and this forum for availability updates for the past two weeks!

I have a white and a blue coming (sooner or later anyway) and can't wait for the remaining "discontinued" colors.

ALOHA!!!!!

I need to go to bed.......


----------



## Gransee (May 18, 2002)

Right now we have some white. We should have a few colors ready this coming week but they are are getting more and more scarce.

Peter


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (May 23, 2002)

Can anyone tell me what the surefire part# for the red lens flip cap that fits on the LS?


----------



## BuddTX (May 23, 2002)

Nobody else has posted something like this, so I will ask the question.

Does anyone wonder what the future brightness improvments of the ARC LS will be, what with Lambda and Electroluems, and others making these "brighter than ARC LS" modified lights?

I really want to buy more of Lambda's lights, but at the same time, I want Lambda to keep on personally enjoying his hobby, enjoy his time off, spend time with his family, and not get burned out, and at the same time, I want to see ARC make brighter, brigher and even brigher lights, and be continuingly successful as a company.

I've had to tell many people, that my Lambda Luminator is one of 65 in the world. 

Even with a greatly reduced LED life, 5,000 to 20,000 hours is a LONG TIME!


----------



## Gransee (May 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuddTX:
*Nobody else has posted something like this, so I will ask the question.

Does anyone wonder what the future brightness improvments of the ARC LS will be, what with Lambda and Electroluems, and others making these "brighter than ARC LS" modified lights?

I really want to buy more of Lambda's lights, but at the same time, I want Lambda to keep on personally enjoying his hobby, enjoy his time off, spend time with his family, and not get burned out, and at the same time, I want to see ARC make brighter, brigher and even brigher lights, and be continuingly successful as a company.

I've had to tell many people, that my Lambda Luminator is one of 65 in the world. 

Even with a greatly reduced LED life, 5,000 to 20,000 hours is a LONG TIME!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You say (and correctly) that the LED life is reduced. This is caused by overheating of the die.

First off, we do not want to manufacture lights that cause the die tempurature to exceed the safe limits. Life of the part is not reduced proportinally to how hard you drive it. The chance of sudden bond or die failure increases as the safe limits are exceeded. This means the light can leave you in the dark. Suddenly. 

Again, overheating by overdriving the part by 20% doesn't reduce the life just by 20%. Overheating the part increases the chance of a sudden failure. The more the part is driven, the less reliable the light becomes. 

Heatsinking is very important to the reliability of the part- not just for adding another 10k hours of "average life". 

Modifications typically are at a disadavantage when it comes to heatsinking becase they take a light that was orginally intended to operate a bulb or small led and place a very hot LED in it. 

Our flashlights are only designed with bright LEDs in mind. Not added later on as some bezel, insert or modification.

As far as collaboration. I am all for it. At Arc, we recognize that we don't own a monopoly on good ideas. It would be stupid for us to be too proud to take good suggestions and make better lights from them for you. We also take care of our contributors (just ask them).

I have been contacted by several mod people (including Lambda). I have offered Lambda and the others the oppratunity for their ideas to be experienced by a larger number of people. So far, some of their designs are being evaluated. None have met all of our requirments. Yet.

Our requirments are pretty strict. I think some of the mod people are surprised and taken aback when I outline our minimum requirments. 

Some are under NDA and I have asked them not to discuss the details of their contributions at this time. I will say that there is one CPF mod'er that has especially impressed me with his contributions.

We are interested in increasing output of the light of course. If you don't know this by now, you haven't followed our company long enough. Light density, which is a factor of size/efficiency/output or "smaller/brighter" is our main mantra.

One of the things that delays how quickly we get the next improvement out is that our designs are for an entire flashlight system, not just a bezel or insert. We believe the system approach is important to achieving the highest light density while maintaining our reliability.

Case in point, I know of no other light more light dense than our Arc-LS w/123 pack. God willing, we plan on maintaining that edge through constant improvement of our designs. Again, I refer you to our track record.

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (May 23, 2002)

I'm just glad that Peter isn't as "light dense" as his products!

Graham put it to me best one day: Holding the LS 123 is like holding something from outer space. Great fun! Nobody expects that little thing to generate the photons in such quantity.


----------



## Graham (May 23, 2002)

Yeah. When I first looked at the Arc LS, I thought that the 2AA battery holder would be fine, but after getting one and trying out the 123, I was 'converted'. The Arc LS/123 is a great little light. Makes me feel like I'm holding the future in my hand..

Graham


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## this_is_nascar (May 23, 2002)

Great post Peter. Don't cave into the pressure. Keep doing what you're doing, how you're doing it. If you stay on that track, I'll guarentee you a satisfied and life-long customer.

I have dozens of lights. Of those dozens, I have multiple ARC-AAA and ARC-LS units. Between both models, I probably have 12 or 14 of just your products alone.

I haven't spent several hundred dollars on your products because I have money to **** away. You have the best product(s) in those catagories, hands down.


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## InTheDark (May 23, 2002)

Peter,
You say you don't want to exceed the safe limits. But you should still be able to significantly overdrive the Luxeon safely without causing premature failure because the specs do not take the heatsinking into account right? If I remember correctly, at 350 mA, the temperature of the LS heatsink should stabilize at around 60(?) degrees, I don't remember the correct number. But if you've got the LS bonded to a flashlight body, even if it's not a perfect heatsink, you should be able to exceed the current limits without any adverse effects. It's already been proven that some LS's can handle >1.5A of current with proper heatsinking, although we don't know what the long term effects of that might be. I don't know what the exact current of an ARC-LS is, but it seems like it's very, very, conservative compared to other LS beamshots I've seen. That's okay if you're actually expecting the full 100,000 hours of life out of the LED, but I think most people know this is just some marketing hype, nobody is really expecting 11 years of continuous service out of this light.

I don't want to pressure you into thinking that you have to overdrive the LS's until they start smoking, but keep in mind that staying within the limits and playing it safe is not going to work when another company comes out with a brighter flashlight. Look at all the popular LED flashlights out there (photon, Lamda Illuminator, Innova X5), not one of them is driven to spec, but the one thing they have in common is that they are pushing the limits of the LED. If you really want smaller/brighter lights, I think you'll have to overdrive the LS's (even when the 5 watt ones are realeased), especially since other companies have caught on to you and have already started developing their LS lights. The only reason I could think of why you would want to stay within spec is to keep a reasonable battery life, but we all know that when deciding between two flashlights, the brighter one usually wins. I just want to make sure that if I ever had to make that decision, I want the ARC to be the best light without question.

I guess the only way to truly solve this problem is to put a dimmer switch in all your flashlights. That was a plug for darell's idea.


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## hotfoot (May 23, 2002)

I like the idea of a super-bright, super-small single-cell light too. But it must be reliable as well, not sure if I need it to be 11-year reliable though, but at least something to take me thru 3, maybe 4 product model years at least before I "need" to upgrade (oh well, being a flashaholic means I'll upgrade anyway...)

Maybe a nice compromise can be reached - like a momentary "overdrive" mode, or a user-settable DIP-switch/jumper arrangement that let's the user decide if he/she wants to blaze, or just simmer. Of course, caveats for each choice need to be given. This way, the manufacturer won't have to take the responsibility 'cos the consumer chooses (kinda like SF with the LOLA/HOLA choices - its either runtime, or xtra lumens).

just a thot....


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## dark star (May 23, 2002)

Three most important features of the LS.
1. Reliable 
2 .Reliable 
3. Reliable


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## The_LED_Museum (May 23, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigHonu:
*So will you be updating your review page to include some information on the blue LS?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe, I haven't decided yet. I really can't assemble a true, rated review on a product that was sold as a "second". That wouldn't be fair to Peter or anybody else. A true, rated review won't be done until the "firsts" are flying off the store shelves.

But I may add some pictures and information about the "seconds" to my existing beta page, which isn't a review, but a *PRE*view. And that I _could_ live with on my conscience because nobody's getting hurt.


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## Gransee (May 23, 2002)

Thanks for the vote guys. I always get moody during a big development phase. And this is the biggest to date.






Its a competitive market and I should be carefull what I say, other people are listening. 

We are working on new stuff (always!) and you _may_ like it.





Yes, we fully intend on overdriving the LS, but only after the heatsinking has been improved. We have developed some new techniques for generating real metrics on heat sink efficiency for a given design. This has dramatically changed our designs in the past month or so and given us more room to safely overdrive (not overheat) the LEDs. Of course, this has also added more work so things have been pushed out. But that is a given.





Another thing I can safely say is that the LS will be waterproofed in the next design. How we are doing it will be a surprise (yippee).

Peter Gransee


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## BuddTX (May 24, 2002)

I ment my question to be, in a way, a form of a compliment to you, as a lot of us here look up to you and your company as "The MAN" as far as LED lights are concerned.

I guess a good analogy between your company and some of the great mod's posted here, might be like a chef producing a world class feast in his kitchen, vs a chef opening up a great restaurant.

The modified lights and their designers are the chefs and the meal created in the kitchen, and you are opening up a restaurant.

It might take the Chef 2-4 hours to shop, and prepare a great meal, but it is going to take months to plan and open up a great restaurant.

Continuing with the analogy, we, the flashoholics are the hungry people! We want to eat at the new restaruant today! Even if we had a meal in your kitchen, we want it again today.

Thank you for your answer.


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## JonSidneyB (May 24, 2002)

Bright is good, long life is good, small size is good. 

I kind of think in terms of right tool for the right job.

At home, have a big light if needed. At home also have a light the is cheap to run that has usable light. 

A portable light on the other hand is a different animal. Bright compact light = short runtime. Dim compact light = long run time and cheap operation. Usable light (nebulous term) splits the difference.

While I would like the Arc-LS to be brighter, I do not want to sacrafice run times. 

I solve my portable lighting needs by carrying the right tool for the right job which means carrying more than one. 

1. A usable light for 90-95% of situations that is compact. The Arc-LS fills this role nicely.

2. The bright light, a SureFire. Not too good for general utility due to short battery life and expense to operate.


3. The cheap to run light. I have Several LS's and Arc-AAA's. Operating cost is free since it uses batteries I would have otherwise thrown away.

How I use my triad of lights.

First I go through my loose battery box and find a single AAA or AA, I also determine if I want to carry the LS with AA pack or Arc-AAA. (free to operate since using trash batteries). If this situation is such that this is enough light to satisfy me, I use it.

If the job calls for more light, I step up to the cheaper than SureFire to operate Arc-LS with 123 pack that provides usable light for the vast majority of situations. 

The SureFire generally just sits there waiting to be used. It only comes out when its expensive short lived output is needed.

The right tool for the right job. Two Arc's and one SureFire for daily carry.


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## yclo (May 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JonSidneyB:
*The right tool for the right job.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, I definitely agree with that. Tonight I tried to read a map in the car with an Arc LS, and it was so bright, the glare reflecting off the glossy pages of the map book was quite annoying. I remembered a while ago I used an Arc LE and it was perfect.

Again, the right tool for the right job.

YC


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## hotfoot (May 27, 2002)

Speaking of tools... well, the Arc-LS DEFINITELY makes the perfect BBQ lite!

Brought my SLS along with me for a cookout coupla nites ago, and as luck would have it, the pit was positioned in poor light. If you thought trying to check the grill-status of regular meat/chicken is hard enough, try it with meat seasoned with asian spices like yellow ginger - it's nearly impossible to tell! With a maglite - everything is orange!

So, I whipped out my SLS and folks at the pit just went "whoaaa... you can see the actual colors of the meats!" As expected, I became the permanent "lamp post" there, and was asked to shed some Arc-LS light whenever somebody was unsure about the doneness of their meal. Boy, is my arm tired





I have to say, even I was surprised at the color rendition. Pea-green or not, my SLS was still smaller and better than the typical flashlight for BBQs!


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## **DONOTDELETE** (May 27, 2002)

It has probably been mentioned before,but...
I have been buying lithium aa batteries for my LS.They are about $5 for 2,and with the 2AA battery pack,the green tint has been greatly reduced.I still don't exactly understand why,but the color is much whiter and brighter and the green corona is now much lighter.I'm sold on them-plus they reduce the weight of the flashlight noticeably.If you haven't tried them yet,you should go ahead and spend the $5 to see for yourself.


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## hotfoot (May 27, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Troy Webber:
*It has probably been mentioned before,but...
I have been buying lithium aa batteries for my LS.They are about $5 for 2,and with the 2AA battery pack,the green tint has been greatly reduced.I still don't exactly understand why,but the color is much whiter and brighter and the green corona is now much lighter.I'm sold on them-plus they reduce the weight of the flashlight noticeably.If you haven't tried them yet,you should go ahead and spend the $5 to see for yourself.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Troy, I agree most wholeheartedly. L91s in the 2AA tube do make for the brightest and longest burning configuration with minimal weight. If only L91s weren't so darn expensive. Personally, I buy lithiums for all the flashlights I collect, but are not likely to use for some time. Lithiums, IMHO, really do improve almost any flashlight you stick them in.


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## this_is_nascar (May 27, 2002)

I am by no means a battery or LED expert or even very knowledgable for that matter, but I have read that the lithiums put out more voltage than an alcaline AA.

Is this true? If so, couldn't this cause damage to the ARC-LS LED? I was going to start using lithiums only, but started reading those other posts and got gun shy.


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## txwest (May 27, 2002)

nascar,
The voltage regulator takes care of that problem. TX


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## this_is_nascar (May 28, 2002)

Excellent news. These ARC lights just continue to amaze me.


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## Willmore (May 28, 2002)

I know this is off topic, but I had to share it. This struck me as a good place as any:

Found on http://www.f-16.net/humor/jokes.html 

-------
Need a Light?

Scene: Student and instructor are on a dual, night cross country.

Instructor : Turns down the panel lights, "OK, you've just lost your lights, what are you going to do?"

Student pulls out a flashlight.

Student : "I get out my flashlight."

Instructor grabs flashlight.

Instructor : "The batteries are dead, now what are you going to do?"

Student pulls out another flashlight.

Student : "I get out my other flashlight."

Instructor grabs next flashlight.

Instructor : "The bulb is burned out on this one, now what?"

Student pulls out yet a third flashlight.

Student : "I use this flashlight."

Instructor grabs this one too.

Instructor : "ALL your flashlights are dead. Now what?"

Student : "I use this glow stick."

Instructor : "Sighhhhhh, just fly the plane without any lights, OK?"


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## Graham (May 28, 2002)

That's pretty funny, I like it. Perhaps you could put it in the Cafe - I'm sure everyone would see it there..

Graham


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## Gransee (May 30, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by txwest:
*nascar,
The voltage regulator takes care of that problem. TX*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To a point. It stops regulating when the battery voltage exceeds the LED voltage. This is true for most regulators so a 6 volt battery will certainly fry the LED (Aragorn take note



).

Btw, we now have stock of the LS-LED w/optics. This is the latest version of the 1W batwing (Low dome) whites. As expected, the tint has improved. Here's the order page.

Peter Gransee


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## txwest (May 30, 2002)

I thought nascar was talking about 2 AA lithiums. That would be what..about 3.4V?
TX


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## JohnG (May 31, 2002)

Could someone please point me to some battery run-time tests for the Arc LS using various type batteries?
I'm sure it's been posted but in rereading the entire thread, it escaped me.
Must be in the old "Manufacturers" thread which is now hidden.
Thanks


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## Mr Ted Bear (May 31, 2002)

Here is just one of many threads... if you want more, do a seach "runtime" in the LED forum

web page


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## JohnG (May 31, 2002)

Thanks, Mr. Bear.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (May 31, 2002)

Just received my ARC LS Second or SLS

I have been reading the posts on this board for months, and this is my first post.
I own an ARC AAA, ARC AAA LE, ARC SLS, and about 10 other LED lights.
The ARC products are my favorite lights.

The ARC AAA has been my EDC.
I purchased some very small carabiners at Walmart, and carry the ARC AAA attached to a belt loop on my jeans. This prevents the flashlight from getting scratched or worn from rubbing against pocket contents or keys. This also provides a quick way to attach it to a shirt pocket or even the neck of a "T" shirt. It is a great way to use the light "hands-free" for many tasks. The mini-carabiner can also be clipped to small ropes or lines, or other objects overhead providing overhead lighting. I feel that the "mini-carabiners" adds so much versatility to the light that they should be considered by Mr. Gransee to be included with the flashlight as standard equipment.

I just received my ARC LS Second or SLS.

My eyes just about popped out of my head when I read the serial number:
First Run #046 (Zero Four Six)
I was extremely pleased to have received such a low serial number.
I was a little hesitant to spend $75.00 on another flashlight, but I am glad that I did. 
This is clearly not just another flashlight.

The ARC LS has the look and feel of military equipment.

Both the fit and finish are simply superb.
All three battery packs work smoothly.
Yes, the single AA battery pack is a bit lighter in color, but I really don't care.

The beam is very well centered.

The center of the beam has a slight violet color, and the corona of the beam has a SLIGHT green color. These color tints are only apparent when you shine the beam on a pure white target, and sit there staring... But then only a FLASHAHOLIC would do something like that...

In NORMAL use, it just looks incredibly bright and white.

Compared to the ARC AAA the ARC SLS looks like a spotlight exhibiting a far superior quantity and quality of light. When viewed side by side, the ARC AAA looks almost like a dim blue LED.

I like the shallow knurling on the ARC SLS.

The CR123 pack is the brightest and most compact, but the least economical to operate.
The ARC LS is about 2 & 3/8 inches long overall in this configuration.
It will easily fit horizontally in the watch pocket of your jeans with the CR123 battery pack installed. It is truly awesome to see so much light coming out of such a small flashlight. Sure to amaze and delight all who behold it...

The Single AA pack is both compact and economical to operate.
The ARC LS is about 3 inches long overall in this configuration.
It will fit vertically in the watch pocket of your jeans with the Single AA battery pack installed. The brightness and whiteness of the beam are the lowest with the Single AA battery pack, but I still find the beam to be very useful, and I think I will be using this configuration the most.
I like to think of it as a "Super-ARC-AA".

The brightness and whiteness of the beam are less but close to the CR123 with the Double AA battery pack.
It is roughly the same size as an AA Mini-Mag with the Double AA battery pack installed.
The ARC LS is about 5 inches long overall in this configuration.
This is great blend of brightness and economy.

So really, it is like getting 3 flashlights for $75.00
Three of the best flashlights ever made.

If you haven't guessed by know, I really love this flashlight.

This is clearly a "Must-Have" for all self-respecting flashaholics...

Mr. Gransee, 
For your next MAGIC ACT, 
how about pulling this flashlight out of your hat:
5 Watt Luxeon Star, voltage regulator, dimmer / power-saver, interchangeable battery packs (2-3 C cells and 2-3 D cells)

Thank You Mr. Gransee


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 1, 2002)

Good post, I See Ellie Deeze...

Welcome aboard!


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## Darell (Jun 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I See Ellie Deeze:
*5 Watt Luxeon Star, voltage regulator, dimmer / power-saver, interchangeable battery packs (2-3 C cells and 2-3 D cells)
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A new member after my own heart!

Peter - what's the next word on SLS white availability? I've decided (for a second time) that I really can't live my life to the fullest without an Arc LS by my side (especially since my wife keeps burning up my 123 cells with my E2!)


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## Gransee (Jun 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*



Originally posted by I See Ellie Deeze:
[qb]5 Watt Luxeon Star, voltage regulator, dimmer / power-saver, interchangeable battery packs (2-3 C cells and 2-3 D cells)

Click to expand...

*


> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A new member after my own heart!
> 
> Peter - what's the next word on SLS white availability? I've decided (for a second time) that I really can't live my life to the fullest without an Arc LS by my side (especially since my wife keeps burning up my 123 cells with my E2!)[/QB]



We have SLS in stock right now!

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (Jun 3, 2002)

I guess I should have asked it another way: Why won't the order page let me order one? All I get is: "Requested quantity not available" and a zero is placed in the quantity field for my convenience.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jun 3, 2002)

I have created a small web page with pictures of my ARC AAA and ARC SLS
Visit my web page and you too can See Elie Deeze...

ARC AAA & ARC SLS


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## txwest (Jun 3, 2002)

Just to give hope to those that still have the LS on order from last year, they are still shipping. I got notice today that mine has shipped. Keep the faith, baby! TX


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## Frank C. (Jun 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*We have SLS in stock right now!

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not according to the web site... 0 in stock


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## Darell (Jun 3, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I See Ellie Deeze:
*I have created a small web page*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Those are some really nice photographs! Nice work with the white background. Some of those should be used for Arc marketing!


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## sotyakr (Jun 3, 2002)

Figures. Just when I was ready to suck it up and click on the (SLS) order button, they're now out of stock. Guess it's true - you snooze, you lose...


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## Darell (Jun 3, 2002)

Losing while snoozing is one thing. But I'm still losing while AWAKE!


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## McGizmo (Jun 3, 2002)

Darell,
I ordered my second second last week and got E today that it's on its way.





Oh yeah, there was some obscure note atttached about it having a new tail switch. Seems you rotate the push button for varible brightness or some such nonsense. Some kind of random test marketing thing. Just one light modified this way; I can send it back if I want standard issue. Kind of a bummer that you're not getting one...


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## Darell (Jun 3, 2002)

What's that whoosh sound? Are pigs actually flying out of my rectum?

Doh! 11:59 6/3/02


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## Gransee (Jun 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darell:
*Those are some really nice photographs! Nice work with the white background. Some of those should be used for Arc marketing!*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. ICLEDs, may we use these pictures in our marketing?

Btw, the website is fixed and taking orders again.






Peter Gransee


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## McGizmo (Jun 4, 2002)

Darell,
Wake up!!! I see 2K posts (Knew you couldn't resist



) and for a real bonus you can order a SLS if you hurry!


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## Wits' End (Jun 4, 2002)

I'm sure some of these questions have been answered elswhere but thought I'd get them in one (small) place.
OK does anyone have a white SLS and a Lambda Illuminator? I want one and am leaning toward the SLS as I like the confidence of dealing with a larger company. The point about the LS being more reliable driven to spec rather than over driven is good. A question for Peter/others the SLS does not have the ten year warranty? I assume it is built to the same specs but not QC'd as well? Any other reasons for one over the other, getting both is not an option. Or should I wait to get a light with the 5-W LS?
Will the SLS's be offered at the $70 price once Firsts are available?


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## Gransee (Jun 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by witsend:
*I'm sure some of these questions have been answered elswhere but thought I'd get them in one (small) place.
OK does anyone have a white SLS and a Lambda Illuminator? I want one and am leaning toward the SLS as I like the confidence of dealing with a larger company. The point about the LS being more reliable driven to spec rather than over driven is good. A question for Peter/others the SLS does not have the ten year warranty? I assume it is built to the same specs but not QC'd as well? Any other reasons for one over the other, getting both is not an option. Or should I wait to get a light with the 5-W LS?
Will the SLS's be offered at the $70 price once Firsts are available?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Witsend. The SLS does not have the same warranty as the first because they don't pass our QC. This is usally due to beam quality or the overall appearance of the flashlight. Electrically, they are just as reliable as the firsts. 

As far as 5w, future pricing, etc: no news yet. As always, we plan on being there with a good light for a good price. 

Peter Gransee

Notice the time of night? Working on a new light! (and getting a little slap happy...)


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## Wits' End (Jun 4, 2002)

Is the best time to work on a light when it's dark?





Thank-you Peter for the quick response. Knowing that it is built well is important.

Still looking for other input. (on the output?)


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jun 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by witsend:
*Is the best time to work on a light when it's dark?





Thank-you Peter for the quick response. Knowing that it is built well is important.

Still looking for other input. (on the output?)*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


My own recently arrived SLS actually light-metered a few lux BRIGHTER than my Lambda Illuminator, both with fresh batteries. The advantage of my particular Illuminator though is that it has a whiter beam, plus that tailcap switch -- with a lockout feature, no less.

But I really like the tough, no-nonsense appearance and feel of the HA SLS, it reeks of solidity and quality (and mine's a SECOND). What to do, what to do -- oh well, I'll just keep them both...


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jun 4, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Originally posted by darell:
Those are some really nice photographs! Nice work with the white background. Some of those should be used for Arc marketing!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. 
ICLEDs, may we use these pictures in our marketing?
Peter Gransee
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mr. Gransee,
Yes, you have my permission to use my pictures for marketing purposes.

I would be both pleased and proud if you used my pictures in your marketing.

I would also like to photograph your future products for you.

It is easy to be enthusiastic about a product line and company that you really believe in !!!

Michael

---------------------------------------

I have created a small web page with pictures of my ARC AAA and ARC SLS
Visit my web page and you too can See Ellie Deeze...

ARC AAA & ARC SLS


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## Darell (Jun 4, 2002)

Thanks for actually letting us order the stock, Peter





For those of you keeping score at home, I'm buying yet another SLS. And though I've had one before, and now also have a Lambda Illuminator, I didn't own them at the same time. So (Witsend) I'll soon be able to give a better output observation/comparison.

I know Grahma has them both, and considers the Arc to be *ever* so slightly less bright than the LI.


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## Ron Schroeder (Jun 4, 2002)

Hi,

I am currently running a single AA pack that I bored out to A size with a L-Ion cell (stolen from a camcorder pack) in the LS. It is a little brighter than either the 2AA or the 123. A little over 2 hours of run time so far.


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## Ron Schroeder (Jun 4, 2002)

Hi All,

I just did a quick test of the LS head on a power supply, It still put out some light at .12 volts......Cool

Thats a lot lower than I expected. Not usable light but it was still lit.

EDIT: WOW, I just realized, this is the 500th post!!!!!!!!


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## Ron Schroeder (Jun 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
*I am by no means a battery or LED expert or even very knowledgable for that matter, but I have read that the lithiums put out more voltage than an alcaline AA.

Is this true? If so, couldn't this cause damage to the ARC-LS LED? I was going to start using lithiums only, but started reading those other posts and got gun shy.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Lithiums are a higher voltage than regular AAs and the LS will not regulate an output below the input voltage. 2 regular AAs are very near the junction voltage of a white LED. The current that the LED will see will be dependant on the junction voltage of the particular LED in the LS. A lower voltage one will draw much more current than a higher voltage one with the same input voltage (and battery internal resistance). So the possability of overdrive is dependant on the manufacturing tolerance of the LS emitter.


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## r2 (Jun 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by witsend:
Still looking for other input. (on the output?)[/QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have both. The LI is more of bluish tint and has a slightly brighter hotspot. The SLS has a green tint and has more of a flood beam. I've heard varying measurements about actual brightness, and at first there were lots of reports about the LI being much brighter. Quantitatively that may be true, but qualitatively I don't think there is much difference. I can't think of any situation where the amount of extra light that the LI puts out is going to make it usable where a SLS wouldn't be, or even where the light output would make it nicer to use. I'd say the added runtime of the SLS with 2 AAs over the LI with 2 AAs is worth a slight decrease in brightness. I haven't done controlled testing with fresh batteries (although the batteries I'm using have about the same amount of use in each light) but the SLS actually appears to light up a room better than the LI since the light is more evenly spread.

My only critique of the SLS is that the design makes it easy to damage batteries by dropping the light--people report dropping the light and smashing the end of the battery but not harming the light itself--or by cranking it down too tight. I'm hesitent to use NiMH batteries with the SLS because of that and because they make the light slightly dimmer. I find the twist-on mechanism fine to use (I know a lot of people prefer a tailcap switch), especially after greasing it, and it's nice because it never gets bumped on accidently. Peter said that he has a fix for the last remaining waterproofing issues, and waterproofing scores points in my book.

I live in a city (Boston) with a lot of ambient light so I don't often use a flashlight outdoors day-to-day. My use is mainly around the apartment or when camping and hiking. I'd give the SLS the edge overall for my use. Longer battery life, a bit shorter, better suited to being banged around in a backpack, and a better area light effect tip the scales for me. The multiple battery packs are cool, too. I rolled my eyes at all the drooling over the 123 pack until I tried it out. With some cheap Sanyo 123 batteries ordered online it makes an attractive (and very sexy) option. Also, you'll find it difficult to get your hands on a LI, so the SLS is a more obtainable option as well






Your mileage may vary, but you're not going to go wrong with either light.

- Russ


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## Lonewolf (Jun 5, 2002)

Peter do the SLS now have the new optics?


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## txwest (Jun 5, 2002)

Today, I received my ARC LS *FIRST* I ordered mid Dec. I must say, it was worth the wait. At one time, I had considered selling it when it came. No longer. It is not for sale. Great light. Turns on easily, even the 123 tube. All the tube colors match. Really great light.
Some of my lights carry a certain "pride of ownership". Such as the ARC CPF Sp Ed, LE, & LV. Thanks Peter for giving me another to add to my list of "proud to own" lights. TX


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## Gransee (Jun 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lonewolf:
*Peter do the SLS now have the new optics?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They all should be the new optics by now.

Peter


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## Gransee (Jun 5, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by txwest:
*Today, I received my ARC LS FIRST I ordered mid Dec. I must say, it was worth the wait. At one time, I had considered selling it when it came. No longer. It is not for sale. Great light. Turns on easily, even the 123 tube. All the tube colors match. Really great light.
Some of my lights carry a certain "pride of ownership". Such as the ARC CPF Sp Ed, LE, & LV. Thanks Peter for giving me another to add to my list of "proud to own" lights. TX*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you so much Tex. Good timing.



I don't always say this, but I do appreaciate our customers!

Peter Gransee


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## Darell (Jun 5, 2002)

After Peter's comment, it occurs to me that we haven't had a group hug here in a LONG time. Who's in?

Seriously now - I need to send more love Peter's way. Seems like all I do is complain (and buy Arc lights). Here I am traveling again, and I miss the Arc LS so much, that I ordered one that should be back home before I am. Here I am with with an Infinity, four Arc aaa's, my Lambda Illuminator, an E2... and I sure wish I had an Arc LS-123 with me.

(Oooohh! I have a great story about my AAA CPF being returned to me *becuase my name was engraved on it* but I shouldn't post that here. Might be considered off-topic by some



)


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## txwest (Jun 5, 2002)

And this, straight from the *Master* of Off Topic.



TX


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## Chuen (Jun 6, 2002)

I've ask this question a while ago. Does ARC SLS being sold now have the 123 pack issue fixed? There was post about making the foam retainer thicker and modifying the battery contact, but I didn't hear anything from Peter on this issue. If it's not fixed yet, could Peter give an estimation on when will the fixed SLS available?


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## Gransee (Jun 6, 2002)

Yes, models being shipped now (both firsts and SLS) are starting to appear with the new "123 optomized" retainer. They look almost the same just slightly thinner.

They have been tested with 9 different brands of 123 cells without excessive force being required.

Peter Gransee


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## YeeDude (Jun 6, 2002)

I just spoke with Peter today and it seems my LS is finally ready to ship tomorrow! (I, like many of you, have had it on backorder since December of last year)

So anyways, what kind of runtime can I expect out of this thing before it switches to "moon mode"?

P.S. "WOOHOO!"


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## Chuen (Jun 6, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Yes, models being shipped now (both firsts and SLS) are starting to appear with the new "123 optomized" retainer. They look almost the same just slightly thinner. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's good to hear that its fixed.



So if I order now, can I be sure that I'm getting the new ones?


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## Bob Snow (Jun 7, 2002)

Just got an email that my Arc LS 1st has shipped.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 7, 2002)

What material is the LS lens made of? It it regular glass, pyrex, etc?


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## LEDagent (Jun 8, 2002)

I'm still waiting for a Cyan Arc LS. I sent money almost 3 weeks ago, but i heard people have waited MONTHS to recieve theirs. So i'm sitting tight and biting my fingernails....hehe. 

I have a EV Arc AAA and i'm amazed at how powerful this little guy is. I'm thinking about getting a white one soon too. Keep up the great work Peter, you are appreciated!


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## Bob Snow (Jun 13, 2002)

My Arc LS arrived today. I was pleased to see that it is engraved "First Run #324" even though it is the latest version. The finish on the head and all three battery holders match. The beam is purplish in the center with a greenish ring. The hot spot is not centered in the outer rings when projected against a white background, but this is not apparent in actual use.

I will probably use it with the 123 Lithium battery holder most of the time. If I know I'm going to need long runtime, I'll use it with two AA lithiums. The light is really unspectacular with a single AA battery.

Seems like a good deal at the original $99 price from my order placed back in the fall.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jun 14, 2002)

Hello all,
After a nine month wait, my LS first (#333) arrived yesterday. It lives up to my rather high expectations. This is a weapons-grade piece of engineering and execution. The light is very warm and white. It makes the color of my AAA-LE look kinda sad..(get it...BLUE?)
Even with just one NiMH the light is very useable, and with the 123 pack on , it seems like it might have come off the set of some sci-fi flick. I ran it against my X5, and although the output is about the same, the color of the LS is much whiter.
To all of you contemplating the purchase of this thing...DO IT. It's worth the wait and the money. Hey Peter, it's time to get to work on the 5watt model............
I work in the Elevator business. When I show this thing to my buddies, they're all going to have to have one.


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## Gransee (Jun 14, 2002)

Thanks! I really do like knowing that people use our product and get a lot of satisfaction from it.

5w?





Peter Gransee


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## yclo (Jun 14, 2002)

Just to recap...

The SLS is _awesome_!

YC


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## chanik (Jun 15, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by this_is_nascar:
*What material is the LS lens made of? It it regular glass, pyrex, etc?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The optics for the Luxeon star are PMMA, poly methyl methacrylate


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## The_LED_Museum (Jun 16, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chanik:
*The optics for the Luxeon star are PMMA, poly methyl methacrylate*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

For those that don't know, that's geek-talk for "it's really stinky when it burns".





Must be those long polymer chains.


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## d'mo (Jun 17, 2002)

Bob Snow said: "I will probably use it with the 123 Lithium battery holder most of the time. If I know I'm going to need long runtime, I'll use it with two AA lithiums. The light is really unspectacular with a single AA battery."

Unspectacular with a single AA?! It's easily the brightest single-cell AA flashlight out there, LED or incandescent.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jun 17, 2002)

Yeah, what he said!
The LS puts out a lot of light in the "single AA mode" - i find it very useful. ARC is one of the few lights, or products, for that matter, which allow the user to set the desired performance level.


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## Darell (Jun 17, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rod Weeks:
* which allow the user to set the desired performance level.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Quite true. But like with Surefire, you have to take along all this clutter to change the performance level. Hmmm. Wonder if anybody would like to see a dimmer switch?


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## d'mo (Jun 17, 2002)

Good point about the "clutter," but I just love the LS utility. I can't think of any other way to allow multiple battery formats without multiple battery cases. An expandable battery case doesn't seem practical. 

About the dimmer, I'd like to see more features in the new LS and/or LS5W, but don't want to see the size increase much.


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## Darell (Jun 17, 2002)

Oh, I'm in complete agreement. The new LS should be smaller, brighter, lighter weight, longer runtime, waterproof to 2,000 feet, with more features like a dimmer and momentary on, and most importantly, *cheaper.*

Sorry Peter. Couldn't help myself.


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## d'mo (Jun 18, 2002)

I'm SO excited to see the new Arc!!

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we....


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 19, 2002)

Just received four first run Arc LS`s today that my wife had ordered



many months ago. Two white and two cyan.

Very, very nice! Thank you, Peter, for some truly spectacular flashlights.

I`m now retiring both of my original beta units, and will be using one of the new white Arc LS`s for EDC...along with an orange-red HD Arc LS (both with the 123 power packs), and three Arc AAA`s: white LE, green and turquoise EV.

Hey...it doesn`t get much better than this!


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## mindcrime (Jun 19, 2002)

Now that's just plain greedy!!


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 19, 2002)

Not greedy...just obsessive!


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## Roy (Jun 19, 2002)

For those of you that have made the Newbeam conversion to your MiniMags....save the plastic cup the Newbeam came in! It makes a good end cap for those ARC LS battery tubes! Just cut the lid off the cup and presto...instant battery cover. Nice way to keep a battery in those spare tubes.


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## LEDagent (Jun 20, 2002)

Carpe Diem,

How do you like your Cyan Arc LSs? I'm still anxiously waiting for mine. Any info would be nice.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jun 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
*......."
So Ted is your the #140 or the #146 I have? I am amazed on the difference between the 2 heads.
David which of these two is the more common one? The 140 has the more common Nichia color, sort of purplish, and the 146 has a very white color to it. The 146 is noticeably dimmer though.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
(edit) oops again, I thought I was on page 36 but I was on page 2! (d'oh!) I'll just let the following stand---;>P
--the ARC thread kinda slipped out from under me for a while there...-- ahh yes good ol' #146, it was very white was't it? Now you see why I posted at least once about not understanding what all you guys complaining about the various tints the LS's had..;> ) ..well, now #146 an LSS (Second)I guess, since I long ago sent it to Peter for replacement since it wasn't playing well with the 123 batteries..2 days ago I got the replacement; #209, and I am very pleased. Completely silky smooth turning, a seemingly more blinding light when I looked directly into it (my scientific test; 'it hurt more' ;> ) -- and plenty of travel after the light goes on (instead of coming on just at the very end of the thread travel)
The old bodies work with the new heads..and I'm not certain but I think what I thought was 'grit' in the threads causing some roughness on turning in the beta models, may have actually been the battery itself scraping the inside of the (old) bodies..I'll leave the final explanation of this to Mr. Gransee or another more expert than I to confirm...
Also got the KemKoted aaa, also flawless, so far...;> )
(Any one out there get 'ol whitey, #146??)
Brock, and all, if you don't get an answer from me in any particular post, feel free to pm or email me ;> )


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## Klaus (Jun 20, 2002)

One question for Peter G.:

How does the regulation / matching of the ARC LS electronic to the actual LS used work ? What I want to ask is if you do match them or not - if not this might be the reason / explanation for the quite different brightness results people had been reporting from ARC LSs against each other and against other LS torches.

To make my point clear let me give an example - LS1 does drop 3.3V to draw 350ma while LS2 does so (draw 350ma) at 3.2V and LS3 does draw 350ma at 3.4V - now does the ARC LS booster/regulator set the current or the voltage to the LS at your specified levels - if you set the actual current all three LS1,2,3 will be pretty much at the same brightness level while probably consuming different amounts of power - whereas if you regulate the voltage the light output will probably be quite different.

Let me add that I think my ARC AAA LE and ARC SLS are the two best LED flashlights I own (had to add the LED as the SF E2e is nice too) and that I´m just curious and don´t want to disrespect you or ARC in any way with this question.

One other question though - did you saw my separate email to you regarding those plastic holders ?

TIA

Klaus


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jun 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bcwang:
*Oh no, I may have damaged my LS. When I first got my SLS white, it was very bright, way brighter than the inova x5. One day I had it in my pocket and it was on for a long time because when I leaned against the chair I felt something really hot. So I took it out and let it cool. It didn't seeem bright anymore so I thought the batteries were just low. So when I finally ran those down, I put in a new set of batteries. But now it doesn't seem bright anymore. It's barely brighter than the X5 now. Did the heat damage the LED so quickly? Anyone else experience their LS dimming compared to when brand new?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
just reading over the string.....did any one answer bc's question? All I can say is that something similar happened to one of my Arc aaa's, it seemed unusually bright for a while, then went to very dim...then out, for good. Mr. Gransee of Arc Flashlight kindly replaced it, and will probably replace yours too, if you haven't sent it in and gotten it replaced by now already!;> )


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## Gransee (Jun 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*One question for Peter G.:

How does the regulation / matching of the ARC LS electronic to the actual LS used work ? What I want to ask is if you do match them or not - if not this might be the reason / explanation for the quite different brightness results people had been reporting from ARC LSs against each other and against other LS torches.

One other question though - did you saw my separate email to you regarding those plastic holders ?

Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, they are presently not matched Vf to set point. That would require different PCBs for each ranking or hand soldering of each board. The next version will be current regulated which will improve consistancy- both between units and over the life of a particular battery change.

Seperate email about plastic holders? Sorry, I have no recolection, and can't seem to find it. My apologies, please post here or resend. 

I will say that what customer service I have had has lagged a little lately because of the workload. Mostly heavy R&D. There is a light at the end of the tunnel though!

Peter Gransee


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## txwest (Jun 20, 2002)

*There is a light at the end of the tunnel though!*
That's very _punny_ Peter.



TX


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 20, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEDagent:
*Carpe Diem,

How do you like your Cyan Arc LSs? I'm still anxiously waiting for mine. Any info would be nice.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi LEDagent...

The two cyan Arc LS`s are very nice. The craftsmanship is flawless.

The LED`s are for all practical purposes a green color, with a diffused and round...but extremely bright...beam.

The green color is most evident when you compare the beam of the cyan LS side by side with the beam of the Arc turquoise EV AAA. Also, I was fortunate to buy Aragorn`s green Arc LS, and the color of that beam is pretty much the same as the cyan`s beam.

I have a cyan "second" LS, and that beam is a little more tuquoise in color, but not as round or diffuse.

I don`t have the ability to post any pictures, otherwise I`d gladly do so.

In any event, you`ll really like your cyan LS when it arrives. If not, I`ll certainly take it off of your hands!

Best wishes.


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## Klaus (Jun 21, 2002)

Thank you Peter for your explanation of the current ARC LS design - guess with the new regulation and the new HD 1W LS in the future I just will have to get new heads then - talk about addiction - did you got your license from the DEA on these LEDs ?





Klaus

Here´s the email I sent to the MSN address

Dear Peter,

sorry to bug but the question came up lately if by chance you have some of those collimator holders available as spares - I´m talking about those black plastic parts holding the collimator optics on top of the LS and which you remove from the LS w/O to have them fit into your LSs - not shure if you are using the original LS w/O to use in the ARC LS so you would have those holders or if you are using the Stars or emitters only. I kind of remember in one of the very old ARC threads on CPF that you talked about how you were removing those holders so I thought you might have some and I just ask.

TIA

Klaus


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## snakebite (Jun 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gransee:
*No, they are presently not matched Vf to set point. That would require different PCBs for each ranking or hand soldering of each board. The next version will be current regulated which will improve consistancy- both between units and over the life of a particular battery change.

Seperate email about plastic holders? Sorry, I have no recolection, and can't seem to find it. My apologies, please post here or resend. 

I will say that what customer service I have had has lagged a little lately because of the workload. Mostly heavy R&D. There is a light at the end of the tunnel though!

Peter Gransee*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
watch out for the train!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Gransee (Jun 21, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*Thank you Peter for your explanation of the current ARC LS design - guess with the new regulation and the new HD 1W LS in the future I just will have to get new heads then - talk about addiction - did you got your license from the DEA on these LEDs ?






Klaus

Here´s the email I sent to the MSN address

Dear Peter,

sorry to bug but the question came up lately if by chance you have some of those collimator holders available as spares - I´m talking about those black plastic parts holding the collimator optics on top of the LS and which you remove from the LS w/O to have them fit into your LSs - not shure if you are using the original LS w/O to use in the ARC LS so you would have those holders or if you are using the Stars or emitters only. I kind of remember in one of the very old ARC threads on CPF that you talked about how you were removing those holders so I thought you might have some and I just ask.

TIA

Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


OK, it sounds like you are looking for the black collars found on the LS w/optics. Yes, we used to pull these off the board to get to the emitter but we now buy the emitter only. The black collars where all thrown away from what I understand since we had no use for them.

Peter Gransee


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## yclo (Jun 21, 2002)

Klaus,

You wouldn't be getting some 5 watters would you?





YC


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## Klaus (Jun 22, 2002)

Thank you Peter

Klaus


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## Darell (Jun 22, 2002)

So here's what ol' Darell is thinking. And yes I do realize that more often than not, nobody really cares what ol' Darell is thinking. But here's what he's thinking anyway:

Since there hasn't been a whole lot of Arc LS breakthrough news in a bit, and this thread is just kind of sputtering along, maybe Peter would like to start up a shiny NEW thread that is somewhat less than 37(!) pages. This thing is starting to take quite a while to load, and because of that (though I can't figure out why) it seems that maybe it sucks up a bunch more bandwidth than it should? This thread started back in Feb, and I think it is high time for the *New* Arc-LS thread. When threads get this long, you just can't find anything in them anymore. Maybe we could have Quarterly threads. Yeah, that's it. "LS Q3 02" Has a nice ring to it.

Anyway. That's what ol' Darell is thinking tonight after a fine BBQ and maybe an adult beverage or two.


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## Saaby (Jun 22, 2002)

Maybe ol' Darell shouldn't post after his adult drinks...not any blantant typos though





ANYWAY I agree and here's why, I know suprisingly little about the Arc LS because the 37 page thread scared me off!


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## Darell (Jun 22, 2002)

Wow. Scaring new members off?! That's something that I hadn't even considered. Now my crazy idea almost sounds like a _good_ idea. Thanks Ryan.

LS does *not* stand for Light Saber.


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 22, 2002)

Ah, yes...

Partaking of the healing waters. Life is good.

I also vote for a fresh start on this thread, but maybe with a reminder in the new thread that the holders of beta units can trade in for the newer LS`s if they so desire.

So Darell...what`s your beverage of choice?


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jun 22, 2002)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carpe Diem:
*Ah, yes...
Partaking of the healing waters. Life is good.
So Darell...what`s your beverage of choice?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
oh yeah, that'll get the new thread started right on topic




but I don't get it, how could a few sips of Ensure cause one to make typoes?


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## Carpe Diem (Jun 23, 2002)

Ted ...you can be rest "ensured" that Darell and I will always stay on topic. 

It`s just that we seem to always have so many topics....


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## Saaby (Jun 23, 2002)

Look at the 40 reply pages!! Shrunk this thing right down, but it's still too long...


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## Darell (Jun 23, 2002)

Yikes. Well, there were probably about 20 or so pages of useless rambling anyway





Yeah, I like it better, but we still need a new thread. I think we've milked this one for all we can.

This young 'un is heading off for some white water adventure today, so I'll check back in when it gets dark...


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## Saaby (Aug 28, 2002)

So, uhhh, who posted and deleted?


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## Roy (Aug 28, 2002)

I did!
Was trying to figure out how to quote something and didn't get the expected result.


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## Cutter (Aug 28, 2002)

I caught that too Saaby. Does this thread just keep going and going or does it eventually start over in a new one?

Dan out


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## Saaby (Aug 28, 2002)

It starts over...somone want to close this??


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 4, 2003)

Guys, I received my LS for Christmas as my first LED flashlight. My first thing to do was to have a little "competition" with my colleague who has an Inova X5 and quite unexpectedly he easily won, although that light is quite blue. Am I doing something wrong? I run the LS on 2 alkaline AAs, can it be that much different with the 123?

Please advise, because I am posting it from the other end of the world. My brother goes back to the US on Tuesday if the conclusion is that it has to be replaced I have to know it by then.

Thanks in advance
r


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## geepondy (Jan 4, 2003)

Hopefully somebody can give the poor guy a reason because I don't know. All my LS lights including my two Arc LS lights handily beat both my Inova X5's in brightness, by a wide margin.


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## Saaby (Jan 4, 2003)

Rochelle...you probably would get better response if you started a new thread. Normally you'd do this by clicking "New Topic" up at the very top of this page. This time, however, I've started one for you...here

Not a problem or anything...just so you know.

As for this thread...I'm going to close it down for several reasons, one being that it's 14 pages--another being that Peter now starts new LS threads every couple weeks.


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