# Maha MH-C9000 Wizard One Charger



## SilverFox (Feb 25, 2007)

Wow!!! This is the charger/analyzer we have been hoping for. 

Maha has stepped up to the line with a charger that offers a wide variety of charge rates, and also offers cycling, refreshing, and discharging at a wide variety of rates. It directly supports AA and AAA sized batteries, and charges/discharges/analyzes each of its four slots independently. The large lighted display is easy to read and gives you the information for each slot, one slot at a time. The buttons are well spaced and have a good “feel” to them. There is ample space between the cells so it is easy to remove and replace a cell, even if it is in a middle slot. The large backlit LCD display and the extra space between cells make the C9000 larger than most other four cell chargers, but it also has a more complete “feature set” than any other consumer charger on the market. It is suitable for charging NiMh and NiCd cells, including the new “low self discharge rate” cells.

One of the most important and beneficial features of the C9000 is the Break-In mode. Battery manufacturers rate their battery capacity and cycle life using a “standard” charge and a “standard discharge.” The C9000’s Break-In mode allows you to compare your batteries performance to what they are supposed to be. This allows you to know the condition of your batteries, and to compare various brands of batteries. 

Sometimes batteries that have been abused or left in storage for an extended period of time can be brought back to life by a Break-In cycle. It doesn’t always work, but since it is an automatic function on the C9000, it’s worth a try.

Well, it’s not completely automated. It’s best to start with a discharge battery, so you may have to do a discharge first and then run the Break-In. Most cells should be able to handle the low charge rate of the Break-In mode without problems, but some cells have a higher internal resistance and they tend to heat up a lot when overcharged. Starting with a discharged cell eliminates the overcharge heating.

Keep in mind that the “standard” charge involves charging a cell at rate equal to one tenth of its labeled capacity for 16 hours. In the Break-In mode, this “standard” charge is followed by a one hour rest period, then the cell is discharged over five hours. After another rest period, another “standard” charge is done on the cell. Doing the math we come up with a 16 hour charge + 1 hour rest + 5 hour discharge + 1 hour rest + 16 hour charge = 39 hours. 

39 hours seems like a long time to tie up your charger, but your cells will love you for it. Since it requires no input from you, other than selecting the mAh capacity of your cell when you start, you can just set it and leave it.

Those who can figure out a way to charge C and D sized cells external of the C9000 can use the Break-In mode for those cells as well. The maximum capacity for the C9000 in Break-In mode is 20000 mAh. Understand that these larger capacity cells will take longer to complete the Break-In than AA cells.

The alternative is to do several cycles. The C9000 allows you to program up to 12 cycles and allows you to set the charge and discharge rates for the cycling. It also stores the capacity data so you can review it and see what effect cycling is having. The default charge rate is 1000 mA and the default discharge rate is 500 mA in Cycle mode.

These features alone make it worth having this charger, but there is more…

The C9000 has a discharge only mode. 

Have you ever wondered how much capacity you loose with your cells sitting on the shelf for a week or so? It is often widely stated that NiMh cells will loose almost all of their capacity in a very short time, however with the discharge mode of the C9000 you can put those reports to bed and know that is not the case. With the introduction of the new low self discharge rate batteries like the Sanyo Eneloop cells, you can also check to see if they are holding up to their claims. You can also determine how much of an improvement a higher capacity battery offers. 

You can even check out the various brands of Alkaline cells to see which offers the highest capacity for the discharge rate you are interested in. The C9000 will not charge Alkaline cells, but it does allow you to do a discharge on them. Ever wonder how much better a Lithium primary cell is than an Alkaline cell? Now you can check it out for yourself.

The discharge mode defaults at 500 mA, but allows you to select a discharge rate from 100 mA to 1000 mA, in 100 mA steps. It continues until the cell reaches 0.9 volts and the display shows the capacity in mAh, the voltage of the cell, and the time involved with the discharge. This information is displayed until the cell is removed.

In multi cell applications, your device will stop working when the lowest capacity cell runs out. To get the best performance in multi cell applications, you need to match your cells on capacity. This way they all run out at the same time. The discharge mode of the C9000 allows you to do this.

Make sure you also get the 12 volt adaptor cord for the C9000. In many parts of the world there are times when an emergency occurs and the power goes out. During an extended power outage the C9000’s ability to operate from 12 volts gives you the ability to recharge batteries when the main power is out.

The AC adapter for the C9000 works worldwide accepting 100-240 volts 50/60 Hz input.

Now that we have worked our way through all of the “bonus” features of this charger, let’s take a look at how it charges.

To charge your batteries, insert them in the charger and take them out when “Done” is displayed.

If you are interested in a “fuller” charge, wait two hours after “Done” for the top off charge to complete.

That’s it.



Can it really be that simple? YES!!!



As cells age their internal resistance increases. The C9000 checks for this and will display “HIGH” if the internal resistance is increased to the point that it is not healthy enough for high rate charging.

If you get the “HIGH” message, recycle the cell and move on. 

Now if great grandfather gave you that cell and you just can’t stand to part with it, there are a few things you can do. Hold it in your hand to warm it up. Internal resistance goes down with heat. A discharge at a higher rate will also warm the cell up. If that does not work, you will have to use a charger that does not check for internal resistance, but don’t expect to get peak performance from it. If it does start to charge, do a Break-In on it and explain to great grandfather that this battery may die before he does…

The C9000 has a default charge rate of 1000 mA. This charge rate works great for all AA cells and also is well suited for AAA cells. It may be a little high for some of the older low capacity (600 mAh) AAA cells, but if the cell is in good condition, it will do fine at the default rate.

If you don’t like the default settings, and think you know something about battery charging, the C9000 allows you to select a charging rate from 200 mA up to 2000 mA in 100 mA steps. The NiMh battery manufacturers recommend charging at a 0.5C to 1.0C charge rate to insure a strong “end of charge” signal. C refers to the labeled capacity of the battery. If we had a 2000 mAh battery, a 0.5C charging rate would be 1000 mA, and a 1C charging rate would be 2000 mA.

So, what happens if you want to charge everything at 200 mA? 

Well, first of all, it takes longer, and secondly, the end of charge signal may be too weak for the charger to recognize it and terminate the charge. This will result in overcharging the cell. The C9000 will “time out” at 4000 mAh, but it is probably better to set a timer and manually check to see if the charger missed the termination signal. If it did, you can manually shut it off. I have charged a wide variety of brands and capacities of both AA and AAA cells at 200 mA and have not had a missed termination, but my sample is too small to make a broad statement. Usually the C9000 will properly terminate, but I am sure there will be some cases where it will continue to charge at this low rate until it “times out.”

At the other end of the spectrum is charging everything at 2000 mA. When charging four AA cells at 2000 mA, the C9000 heats up. This heat is radiated to the cells that are charging, and they heat up as well. The amount the cells heat up is dependent on their internal resistance and general condition. 

Here are some actual test results while charging 4 cells at 2000 mA:

AAA 850 mAh cells got up to 118 F. These cells were not in very good condition.
AAA 900 mAh cells got up to 115 F. These were in pretty good condition.
AAA 700 mAh cells got up to 112 F. These are old, well used cells.
AA 2300 mAh cells got up to 130 F. These are well used cells that have a slightly increased internal resistance.
AA 1800 mAh cells got up to 112 F. These cells are designed for high current and have very low internal resistance. 
AA 2500 mAh cells got up to 125 F. These are new cells in good condition.
AA 2600 mAh cells got up to 137 F at mid cell and 135 F at the negative end where the C9000 monitors the cell temperature. These are also new cells, but they have high internal resistance and are not suited to high charge rates, or high discharge rates. At high charge and discharge rates, they heat up.
AA 2650 mAh cells got up to 128 F. These are new cells with moderate use.
AA 2600 mAh cells got up to 129 F. These are older cells with hard use.

Keep in mind that these are the peak temperatures that occurred during the last stage of the charge. The temperature actually peaks a few moments after the charge terminates. The cell temperatures during the bulk of the charge were in the 95 – 100 F range.

The C9000 monitors the temperature of each battery slot and terminates the charge if the cell temperature (measured at the negative end of the cell) exceeds around 135 F. There is no alarm indication when a cell terminates on high temperature. The C9000 simply terminates the charge and displays “Done” along with the charge time and mAh put into the cell.

The C9000 utilizes a very tight battery holder. A good connection is required for high rate charging. I have found that the easiest way to insert cells is to put the negative end in first and snap in the positive end. To remove the cell, press back to compress the spring at the negative end and tip the cell out positive end first. 

The C9000 is about 6.5 inches tall, 4.5 inches wide and 1.5 inches thick. It has a lift rod that raises the back of the charger up for easier viewing and better air circulation. The power adaptor is roughly 2.875 inches tall, 1.875 inches wide, and 1.5 inches deep, not including the prongs that plug in.

A top off charge of 100 mA is applied at the end of the charge cycle for two hours. After that, a maintenance charge of 10 mA is applied for as long as the battery is in the slot.

Maha has a three year warranty on the C9000. To view more information on this excellent charger and to check out the owners manual, visit www.mahaenergy.com .

The C9000 was released in late December 2006. Early units had some difficulty terminating with a few cells, especially at lower charge rates. This review was done on a C9000 received in February 2007, and reflects improvements Maha has made to the charge algorithm.

Another big “thumbs up” to Maha. This is an excellent charger/analyzer. Simple enough for casual use, but offering advanced, sophisticated features for those times when we are trying to better understand the condition of our batteries, or when we are matching cells for multi cell use.

Tom


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## EngrPaul (Feb 25, 2007)

Wow nice review! :goodjob:

I keep having issues with AAA batteries (I have been quiet about it lately... patient), so I'm going to check into the new model. I'm glad they responded to all our input and analysis. 

I believe in the MAHA product. The more complicated these chargers get, the less likely they are to get it right the first time. I understand that


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## dekelsey61 (Feb 25, 2007)

Tom,
Very nice review!! I have 2 of the newest versions of the C9000 and the changes are FANTASTIC!! Great charger with great features. Maha did a great job. This charger is everything you would expect from a charger and more. Again great job as always!!
Dan


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## TorchBoy (Feb 25, 2007)

So what exactly are the changes that have been made, why are the changes so fantastic, and are the old chargers lemons?


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## SilverFox (Feb 25, 2007)

Hello Ian,

You may find this thread informative.

Tom


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## Burgess (Feb 26, 2007)

SilverFox -


As always, *thank you* once again for your time and effort.


You always keep up well-informed !


Best of luck (and health) to you and your loved ones in 2007.


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## HarveyRich (Mar 5, 2007)

Wow is right. This is a long and detailed review. I have recently purchased a LaCrosse Technology BC-900 charger that does virtually all of what you've described for the Maha C9000. The primary difference that I can see is that the Maha requires you to push a button to cycle the digital readout between cells, while the BC-900 has individual readouts for each battery (although they are smaller, they are easily readable). Thus, it would be faster and easier to visually see each battery readout. A comparison review I saw online indicated this and liked the BC-900 format. The BC-900 is also smaller and hence more portable. One main difference is the price. I was able to pick this up at Amazon for about $40, while the Maha C9000 seems to be going for about $65. 

Otherwise, the two seem pretty comparable from what I've read. I love the BC-900 for all the reasons you state. They both seem to be excellent little chargers, especially for the digital readouts, single cell operation, and refresh battery modes. I would guess, that for full battery control, either charger would do the trick.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 5, 2007)

Will these manufacturers ever bring out a charger that does ALL battery chemistries ..... and RCR123 / RCR2 and maybe PP3 size cells too ??


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## SilverFox (Mar 5, 2007)

Hello HarveyRich,

There are similarities between the C9000 and the BC-900, however there are some differences as well.

Let’s try a feature by feature comparison…

*Size:* The C9000 is roughly twice the size of the BC-900. Cells are easily accessed on the C9000 due to the generous spacing between cells. Cells are harder to access on the BC-900.

*Power:* The C9000 operates from either 100-240V 50-60 hZ AC or 12V DC. 
The BC-900 operates only from 100-240V 50-60 hZ AC.

*Display:* The C9000 display is roughly 30% larger than the BC-900, and is backlit. The font that is used to display the information on the C9000 is larger and easier to read. The BC-900 displays one set of information for all 4 slots simultaneously. To see other information, you need to press the display button. The C9000 steps through all of the information for each slot twice, then moves on to the next slot. It takes roughly 15 seconds to go through two display cycles, so it takes roughly 1 minute to go through all four slots. Pressing the slot button on the C9000 will display the capacity value for a slot with additional presses giving the capacity value of the next slot in sequence. The display on the BC-900 is faster to use, but harder to read. Both provide similar information.

*Capacity:* The C9000 has a capacity limit of 20000 mAh on the Break-In mode and 4000 mAh on charging modes. 
The BC-900 has a capacity limit of 3000 mAh.

*Charge rates:* The maximum charge rate for 4 cells with the C9000 is 2000 mA. 
The maximum charge rate for the BC-900 with 4 cells is 1000 mA. 
The C9000 allows you to select charge rates of 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1000, 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800, 1900, and 2000 mA. 
The BC-900 allows you to select charging rates of 200, 500, 700, and 1000 mA for 4 cell charging, and additionally 1500 and 1800 mA for 2 cell charging in slots 1 and 4.

*Trickle charge:* The C9000 follows the main charge with a 100 mA top off charge for 2 hours, then supplies a 10 mA trickle charge. The top off charge and trickle charge rates are not displayed, and the trickle charge continues until the cell is removed.
The BC-900 is supposed to supply a trickle charge of about 5% of the charge rate selected. With a 1000 mA charge, it actually supplies around a 60 mA trickle charge. With a 700 mA charge rate, it trickle charges at around 40 mA. With a 500 mA charge, it trickle charges at around 28 mA. With a charge rate of 200 mA, it trickle charges at around 12 mA. The trickle charge rate is displayed, and the trickle charge continues until the cell is removed.

*Temperature sensing:* The C9000 uses a separate temperature sensor for each slot.
The BC-900 shares one temperature sensor for slots 1 and 2, and a second one for slots 3 and 4.

*Discharge rates:* The maximum discharge rate on the C9000 is 1000 mA.
The maximum discharge rate on the BC-900 is 500 mA.
The C9000 allows you to select discharge rates of 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, and 1000 mA.
The BC-900 allows you to select discharge rates of 100, 250, 350, and 500 mA.

*Discharge mode:* The C9000 discharges the cell down to 0.9 volts and stops. The discharge rate is selected by the user from the discharge rates available (default is 500 mA).
The BC-900 discharges the cell down to 0.9 volts and then charges the cell at twice the rate used for the discharge (default is 100 mA). EDIT: I have been asked to add that the BC-900 does not hold the discharge data. If you don't catch it before it starts charging, it is lost. ENDEDIT

*Cycle,* on the C9000 and *Refresh,* on the BC-900: These modes are similar, but there are some differences. Cycle on the C9000 prompts you for the charge rate (default is 1000 mA), the discharge rate (default is 500 mA), and the number of cycles you want to run (default is 1). It is capable of doing 12 cycles, and stores the mAh capacity for each cycle so you can go back and compare the different cycles after the process has completed. It starts with a charge, followed by a rest period, then a discharge once again followed by a rest, and finally a charge. 
The BC-900 prompts you for the discharge current (default is 100 mA), then discharges the cell and immediately charges it at double the discharge current selected. There are no rest periods. This cycle continues until no further increase in capacity is estimated. The capacity during the last discharge is displayed at the end of this process.

*Refresh and Analyze* on the C9000 and *Test* on the BC-900: The C9000 prompts you for the charge rate (default is 1000 mA) and for the discharge rate (default is 500 mA). The cell is charged, followed by a rest period, discharged, followed by a rest period, and finally charged up again. The discharge capacity is displayed at the end of the process.
The BC-900 prompts you for the charge rate (default is 200 mA). The cell is charged, then discharged at half the charge rate, then charged again. There are no rest periods. The discharge capacity is displayed at the end of the process.

*Battery condition check:* When a cell is put in a C9000 slot and a charge rate is selected, a higher voltage will flash once during the display sequence. When this voltage is over around 2.0 volts, HIGH will be displayed indicating a damaged battery. When this voltage is around 1.7 volts, the cell will no longer be able to be charged on the 15 minute chargers because of higher internal cell resistance. Cells with very low internal resistance show up at around 1.45 volts.
The BC-900 also checks for battery condition. If the battery is within acceptable limits, it starts charging, if not, it displays NULL.

*Warranty:* The C9000 has a 3 year warranty. 
The BC-900 has a 1 year warranty.

The C9000 has one additional mode, *Break-In:* When the Break-In mode is selected, the user is prompted for the cell capacity. The available capacities range from 500 – 20000 mAh in 100 mAh steps. The default is 2500 mAh. This mode follows the IEC standard for cell capacity testing. The cell is charged for 16 hours at a rate equal to one tenth of its capacity (0.1C), rested for an hour, discharged at a rate equal to one fifth of its capacity (0.2C), rested for an hour, then charged again for 16 hours at the 0.1C rate. The discharged capacity is displayed at the end of this process.

*Cost:* A quick check today revealed $62 - $65 for the C9000 and $36 - $70 for the BC-900.

Tom


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## Anders (Mar 5, 2007)

Thankyou Tom for the additional info, its good to have it all in one thread.:goodjob:

Anders


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## Doug S (Mar 5, 2007)

SilverFox said:


> *Trickle charge:* The C9000 follows the main charge with a 100 mA top off charge for 2 hours, then supplies a 10 mA trickle charge. The top off charge and trickle charge rates are not displayed, and the trickle charge continues until the cell is removed.
> The BC-900 is supposed to supply a trickle charge of about 5% of the charge rate selected. With a 1000 mA charge, it actually supplies around a 60 mA trickle charge. With a 700 mA charge rate, it trickle charges at around 40 mA. With a 500 mA charge, it trickle charges at around 28 mA. With a charge rate of 200 mA, it trickle charges at around 12 mA. The trickle charge rate is displayed, and the trickle charge continues until the cell is removed.
> Tom


So do I understand correctly that even for a low capacity cell, suppose a 600mAhr rated AAA, it will charge another 200mAhr worth after termination by it's normal algorithim before going to the 10mA trickle?


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## SilverFox (Mar 5, 2007)

Hello Doug,

That is correct.

Tom


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## TorchBoy (Mar 5, 2007)

Wow, Tom. I've come to expect a lot from you but I have to say that's an impressively in-depth comparison.


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## Codeman (Mar 7, 2007)

More great info from the master! Thanks, Tom!

I'm been using the MH-C9000 for about 2 months and I'm quite happy with it. Although my Triton was more than adequate for my AA's/AAA's, the new Maha make it so much easier since I don't have to switch charge cables. Although a fan would have been nice, I haven't had any cells reach 135°F, so I'm not really worried about it. My right 2 bays don't seem to like my Duracell 1000mAh AAA's, though. They don't snap into place, but I need to try Tom's suggestion of putting the cells in negative-end first. That may take care of the only real issue I have with the 9000. It, along with my Pila IBC and a Nano has my loose-cell charging needs covered quite nicely.

UPDATE - Thanks for the negative-end-first tip, Tom! :rock: That cleared up the problems I was having with my right 2 bays and the AAA's.


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## lukestephens777 (Mar 9, 2007)

This sounds like a fantastic charger for AAA's and AA's. Is there a charger like this one that will charge C and D size Nimh's? Or one that has a built in fan to cool cells? I like the full range of features this unit has.


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## SilverFox (Mar 18, 2007)

I have edited both my first post and the comparison with the BC-900. In both posts I stated that the C9000 discharges down to 1.0 volts. This only applies to the original unit. The improved C9000 discharges down to 0.9 volts.

Both of these posts should now be correct.

Tom


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## TorchBoy (Mar 18, 2007)

Strangely enough, I saw 0.88 volts momentarily on my MH-C9000 at the end of an AA discharge. A one-off quirk, I think - when it had cycled through to show the voltage again it was up to 1.2V. I probably do spend too much time looking at that display.

You haven't mentioned the repeating digit problem on the MH-C9000, Tom. :laughing:


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## SilverFox (Mar 19, 2007)

Hello Ian,

I still have not seen it, however I don't spend enough time looking at the display.

I am in the middle of something else now, but plan to check it out sometime in the future.

Tom


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## HarveyRich (Mar 22, 2007)

Silverfox: man, you are thorough--kudos. BTW, I still like my BC-900, especially at the price point. I'll await the next upgrade before splurging again. Thanks for the excellent comparison.


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## TorchBoy (Mar 22, 2007)

Yep Harvey, Tom's invaluable. The current firmware on the MH-C9000 is mostly OK and the problem I found is not a major if you're not worried about the thing working as it's supposed to. 

Some people don't even use that feature. I do, and it bugs me.


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## Dobbler (Mar 22, 2007)

What are the current bugs and latest firmware, and how does one tell what firmware the unit has?


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## Gator762 (Mar 22, 2007)

Hmm... I've been thinking hard about another charger. Sounds like it may be worth the extra scratch over the BC-900... Anyone else have a comparison of both?


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## cy (May 5, 2007)

tom, what's the best place to purchase Maha MH-C9000? thanks,


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## LuxLuthor (May 5, 2007)

Thomas Distributing.


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## SilverFox (May 5, 2007)

Hello Cy,

Like LuxLuthor, I got mine from Thomas Distributing.

Tom


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## cy (May 5, 2007)

arghhhhhh... not yet another charger  

was saving my pennies for schulze balancer module...


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## SilverFox (May 7, 2007)

Hello Cy,

While your Triton and Schulze are busy with Li-Ion charging, the C9000 can help with NiMh charging. That should be enough reason, but just to push you over the edge if indecision, the Break-In mode is great for new cells. 

Tom


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## PEU (May 12, 2007)

Do eneloops also benefit from a break in cycle?


Pablo


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## SilverFox (May 13, 2007)

Hello Pablo,

We have not seen much of an improvement using the Break In mode on Eneloop cells. I think they get a break in cycle at the factory.

I think you can get by without it. 

There have been a couple of people mention that the RayOVac Hybrid cells seem to gain a small amount using the Break In mode, but not a lot.

I reserve the right to change my mind after using Eneloop cells for a couple more years...  

Tom


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## Rob187 (May 20, 2007)

Wow, what a review.

I ordered one just now and should have it in 3-4 days. If it is only half as good as you say, it will be worth it.


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## Mitch470 (Oct 20, 2007)

Tom,

That's a great comparison review of both chargers. In Test Mode, by the way, the Capacity is displayed at the end of the Discharge Phase and REMAINS through the entire 2nd Charge Phase until you remove the battery. You mentioned that it is not visible during the 2nd Charge Phase.

I already purchased the LaCrosse BC-900 and do not see enough of a reason to dump it and replace it with the MH-C9000. I'll wait until the next generation comes out to pick a new model then.

One advantage I see with the C9000 is the ability to only Discharge non-rechargeable batteries. However, the spec sheets available on the Internet already reveal that information. The larger display of the C9000 and the backlight is also an advantage. Usually, I have to shine a flashlight on the BC-900 display to see it properly.

An advantage of the BC-900 is to continually display information for all 4 cells. I usually display voltage to see where I am in each cycle.

The big advantage of the BC-900 is the shorter cycle times and the abscence of the rest times. I get a full Test Mode Cycle in 12 hours. I really wouldn't want to wait 39 hours for the same cycle.

The reversal of size of charge and discharge currents between the 2 are not material to a casual user like myself. I doubt that it really matters much.


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## TorchBoy (Oct 21, 2007)

Mitch470 said:


> The big advantage of the BC-900 is the shorter cycle times and the abscence of the rest times. I get a full Test Mode Cycle in 12 hours. I really wouldn't want to wait 39 hours for the same cycle.


You're not fooling me! 12 hours is not the same as 39 minus two hours for resting. 

It's not the same cycle. On both chargers you have the ability to choose what charge and discharge rates you want, and the 39 hour thing is the standard IEC test (plus another slow charge). 12 hours isn't enough time for even the charging part of that test - 16 hours at 0.1C.


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## mircozorzo (Jan 4, 2009)

I dislike the default 1A charge setting, is it possible as workaround limit on the power supply (whit a resistance) the current at 0,4A for each cells?

I know that is possible to set using the buttons but I do not want.

Thanks, Mirco

Bye.


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## Hitthespot (Jan 6, 2009)

Tom,

I enjoyed this thread and the charger shoot out you did. Wonderful reference information, thank you.

I just purchased this ( MH-C9000) charger, and if I may, I have a couple of questions and would appreciate your opinion.

I would like to get maximum life out of my batteries and most of the time will not care too much about how long it takes to charge them. You had stated that at a low 200ma the charger may not terminate the charge cycle, which would obviously be detrimental to the battery life. 

My question is how low would be low enough to get maximum battery life but still be high enough for charge termination? Would .25C be a good compromise? This would be 675ma on a 2700mah battery and 500ma on a 2000mah battery. EDIT: I missed it in the manual yesterday. I found it this morning. It is recommended to not charge below .3C. This brings up another questions in my mind. My Eneloop charger charges at .15C. It seems to me this would be best for my batteries from a longevity stand point, and is actually better than any safe charge cycle the C9000 can provide? Am I thinking right?

Second question. For maximum life, is it really necessary to Refresh and Analyze batteries that are used between two weeks and less than every three months like the manual says? I almost never cycle rechargables in less than two weeks. In this case I would be running a Refresh Analyze everytime I charge? It just doesn't seem like that much cycling is necessary.

Thanks

Bill


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## SilverFox (Jan 7, 2009)

Hello Bill,

The improved C9000 now has no problem terminating even when charging at very low charge rates. When the battery reaches 1.47 volts, the main charge will terminate and the charger will go into top off mode. This means that you can pick any charge rate between 200 mA to 2000 mA and the C9000 will terminate. The primary termination method is -dV, but the back up termination of peak voltage also works well.

I might point out that the chemical engineers that design batteries are not usually consulted by the electrical engineers that design chargers...

The chemical engineers state that the best charge rate to generate a strong end of charge signal is in the 0.5 - 1.0C range. With Eneloop cells, that would be charging at 1000 - 2000 mA. The electrical engineers that put together the Eneloop chargers seem to have ignored this advice, and may have been under budget constraints. 

At any rate, you won't immediately kill your cells by slow charging them, and if your charger design incorporates alternate methods of charge termination, you may even get decent cycle life from your cells. I find that you get the best performance by following the advice of the chemical engineers, but the electrical engineers seem to do a decent job too...  

To keep your cells vibrant it is a good idea to discharge them and give them a break in cycle every 25 - 50 charge/discharge cycles, or once a year. If your cells are in storage, they should be stored discharged and given a charge/discharge cycle every 30 days. The low self discharge rate cells may give you a little more time between charge/discharge cycles so you may be able to extend the time to 60 days. With that said, we have seen Eneloop cells that are a couple of years old fall into shape very quickly after being stored with a partial charge and no other care. I have some of the initial Eneloop cells made and have been storing them on the shelf with no intervention. I plan to test them and see how well they perform after extended storage. We may find that the rules that we use for normal NiMh cells do not apply to the LSD cells.

Tom


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## Hitthespot (Jan 7, 2009)

Tom,

Most of my career was spent working with some of the finest old school electrical engineers. They just seemed to know everything about everything. When I first started working with them as a young man who knew nothing, I looked at them almost like royalty. However they were as down to earth as you could ask for. Never being impatient or short with me and taking as much time as I needed with them no matter how stupid my questions were. As the customer service manager of the same company I was in meetings with them and worked with them often, asking questions so I could answer customers questions associated with our Uninterruptible Power Supplies and Digital Static Transfer Switches. Starting there as a kid I really didn't know nothing about nothing, yet over the course of 24 years they taught me plenty, and I'm not just speaking of academics. I think of them almost like a son thinks of his father and will always believe that a lot of who I am today I owe to them. It has been years since I worked there and I'm sorry I never told them.

The information you spend so much time collecting and then sharing with everyone for their benefit is unmeasurable. I have spent hours just reviewing your C9000 information. I told you the story above because you remind me of the engineers I once worked with. I guess I'm just trying to say thank you for taking the time to answer my question in detail, and to let you know you could be making differences your not even aware of. Sorry if I did it a little long winded. 

Thank You

Bill


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## Bobo The Bear (Jan 8, 2009)

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67

Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?


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## Hitthespot (Jan 8, 2009)

I don't know if this guy knows what he is talking about or not, but this charger does have boat loads of nice features and I am very happy with it so far. It is not perfect though. After spending my first couple of days with it I've found some quirks I would change. These are strickly my opinion though. I think some minor software changes and an extra button would do it.

1) You can't turn the backlight off as long as there are batteries in it, and it seems like it will always have batteries in it.

2) Once a mode has completed you cannot move on to another mode without removing and reinstalling the batteries. ( unless I'm missing something). It needs a reset button. EDIT: You may be able to avoid removing the batteries by unplugging the unit and plugging it back in. I'm in the middle of a break in cycle and cannot try it right now.

3) You can't program all 4 bays at once. Each one must be programmed separately. This creates a number of more key punches. 

4) I believe the Refresh Mode and the Break-In Mode should begin with a discharge cycle not a charge cycle. (They could give you an option to skip this if you feel you don't need it first. 

5) The unit goes into default mode too quickly. It just dawned on me this would also stop you from unplugging and plugging the unit back in if you needed to program the charger as I stated in number two. You would never get to bay three and four in time.

6) The manual Could be much better. For instance: It says nothing about a top off charge the last two hours after the done appears. Also It says nothing about after the two hour top off charge if there is a continious trickle charge, and if so, what is the current of the trickle charge?  EDIT. The manual does state there is a top off charge and a trickle charge but it does not state what the current applied is for either.

Maybe I'm being too picky.

Bill


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## LED_Thrift (Jan 8, 2009)

Hitthespot said:


> The information you spend so much time collecting and then sharing with everyone for their benefit is unmeasurable. I have spent hours just reviewing your C9000 information. I told you the story above because you remind me of the engineers I once worked with. I guess I'm just trying to say thank you for taking the time to answer my question in detail, and to let you know you could be making differences your not even aware of...


 
Very nicely put Hitthespot. CPF is a great community because of knowledgeable people who contribute their time and expertise, and Silverfox is at the top of that list.


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## TONY M (Jan 9, 2009)

SilverFox said:


> The improved C9000 now has no problem terminating even when charging at very low charge rates. When the battery reaches 1.47 volts, the main charge will terminate and the charger will go into top off mode. This means that you can pick any charge rate between 200 mA to 2000 mA and the C9000 will terminate.


Hi Tom, I haven't been able to find an answer to this on the forum but how do I know if my C9000 is one of the newer versions that doesn't suffer from not terminating below 0.3C?

Many thanks.


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## UnknownVT (Jan 10, 2009)

I also posted basically this in another thread - but thought it may be of interest here -

I just got a Maha C9000 (code: 0H0FA) - so this is "novice" usage -
I ran a discharge test on 3 different sets of my LSDs to compare.

These were perhaps my least used sets - 
which have had what I would term my "ignorant" usage - 
ie: I just charge them in a cheapo smart charger (Soshine SC-C3 Intelligent Rapid Charger) and use - 
recharge when necessary - usually after they get depleted (shutdown) in equipment. 
But like I said these were my least used - 1 to 3 cycles may be....

I topped up charged each set then left on charger for 1 hour (trickle charged? I know, maybe I should have left them on for 2 hours but I was impatient - and those batteries were all relatively recently fully charged on my cheapo charger or the Maha C9000 anyway) - 
turned charger off then started discharge at 0.2C (for all these = 400mA)

... Kodak Pre-Charged ...... eneloop ................... DuraLoop ................. Kodak P-C (1-4)
1) 1951 mAh (322min) .... 1878 mAh (311min) .... 1867 mAh (308min) .... 1966 mAh (325min)
2) 1961 mAh (326min) .... 1867 mAh (311min) .... 1858 mAh (308min) .... 1942 mAh (324min)
3) 1994 mAh (329min) .... 1900 mAh (315min) .... 1872 mAh (309min) .... 1993 mAh (330min)
4) 1944 mAh (323min) .... 1861 mAh (310min) .... 1868 mAh (310min) .... 1907 mAh (318min)

_*EDIT to ADD -*_ I just finished another discharge of another set of Kodak Pre-Charged - these have had more "abusive" usage - as this is the set that I use for my flashlight reviews - so they often get top-up charges and rarey get fully discharged in normal usage - I bought these back on June/21/2007 so were first charged on my cheapo jWin charger - relatively "smart" using -dV detection, claimed output current - 900mA, but only charged in pairs - then after mid-Feb/2008 I used the Soshine SC-C3 Intelligent Rapid Charger and only charged 1 to 2 of these at a time taking advantage of the higher 1050mA charge current. 

This time I did a top-up charge on the Maha C9000 and left the batteries on the charger (trickle charged?) for over 2 hours - then turned the charger off and back on for the discharge at ~ 0.2C (=400mA)

Once again, but basing on only 4 samplings - it would appear that my charger's slot #3 seemed to show the highest capacity.


The DuraLoops (Duracell Pre-Charged made in Japan with white tops) may have had a slight "advantage" I actually ran a refresh & analyze on those - but forgot to look in the 2 hour window and missed what capacity they read  

It would appear on this sampling of only 3 sets, that slot (3) on my Maha C9000 may read higher than the other slots?

Also please see summary post #*57* from eneloop vs. Kodak Pre-Charged Voltage Maintenance.


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## StandardBattery (Jan 11, 2009)

Bobo The Bear said:


> http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67
> 
> Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?


Does he sound "really" confused to you? Does he "really" know what he is talking about? I don't know, sounds to me like he knows a fair amount, and is certainly not _really confused_. He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that. I believe they will certainly confirm he is correct based on the current software. However, before I would say absolutely don't do it, we need to answer the question below.

*WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS* what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine.

I'd like to know more about the Break-In cycle comments. If he is more or less right on this point then I would say he knows a lot. I'm not a big fan of Break-In, I'm more of a manual charge, discharge kind of guy. Mainly though it is because I have not had the time or the proper situation to give it a real test.


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## Hitthespot (Jan 11, 2009)

StandardBattery said:


> *WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS* what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine.


 
This is what I mean by my comment the manual could be a little better. They leave you with unanswered questions.

I have more to read and learn on this charger, but after reading that guys post a couple of more times, (I'm not sure what BB it was on) I'm not so sure his comments hold water, especially on the newer units.

Bill


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## Lite_me (Jan 12, 2009)

Bobo The Bear said:


> http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67
> 
> Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?


Just FYI, and make note, _I am assuming here,_ that Mikeabcd from the linked forum above just may be the Mike_abcd from here. 

He hasn't posted here in over a year and a half, but I remember him to be somewhat opinionated (aren't we all sometimes ), but certainly seemed to know what he was talking about. If interested, you could have a look at some of his old posts.


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## Bobo The Bear (Jan 12, 2009)

I'm using a BC-900 now and am shopping for another charger, I have too many batteries, not enough chargers :laughing:.

I planned on getting a C9000 mainly for the Break In feature. Everything else besides that a BC-900 can do, maybe not as great as a C9000, but good enough for me. The BC-900 has no Break In type of feature at all.

If the Break In mode is not recommended for NIHMs per the post I linked previously there's no reason for me to get the C9000.

Also, per StandardBattery's post:


> He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that.



This is surprising to me. AAA's not recommended?


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## StandardBattery (Jan 12, 2009)

Bobo The Bear said:


> * ...*
> This is surprising to me. AAA's not recommended?


Note, I'm not recommending it, because I'm cautious. No one else I know of has said this. BUT I'M just being cautious until it's clear when this top off starts.

My understanding is on AA it may start before delta-V in the Current software revision, it seems like Maha made this change to counter earlier issues with the charger and to try to keep the batteries cooler during charging. Still, for AAA it looks like they still may need some tweaking. I'm sure more will be known soon.

You could buy the C808M if you need to charge a lot of cells.


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## Black Rose (Jan 13, 2009)

I've been charging Eneloop, Rayovac Hybrid, Titanium Enduro LSD, and regular NiMh AAA cells in the C9000 and C800S for close to a year.

I have had no issues doing so.

Mike's post has errors in it IMHO. When charging an AA at 2000 mA, it IS going to get hot no matter what charger is doing it.

His advice about the Break-in cycle is flat out wrong. Take a look at what SilverFox says about it.


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## TakeTheActive (Jan 13, 2009)

*Who Really Cares?*



Bobo The Bear said:


> http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67
> 
> Does that guy know what he's talking about or is he really confused?


A better question, IMHO, is why do you even care about one post (from possibly a 'former' CPF member) on another forum when there is SO MUCH *EXCELLENT*, detailed, complete information, much of it from Moderator Tom (aka *SilverFox*) RIGHT HERE? 

Many folks post '_whatever they feel at the moment_' on the internet. I wonder quite often if someone was forced to use their REAL NAME and was replying to someone that they interfaced with on a regular basis and had some influence on their future, would they put any more THOUGHT into their posts?


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## TakeTheActive (Jan 14, 2009)

*Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...*



StandardBattery said:


> ...*WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW IS* what triggers the point where the top-off charge begins? If it is delta-V, then he could very much have a valid point. If however it is a voltage-level, then everything is mostly fine...


Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum? 

Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.

For example, *IF* you had been reading the CPF Archives for several hours per week since ~Thanksgiving 2008 , you would know that SMART CHARGERS terminate on the *FIRST* of the following conditions (NOTE: Not all SMART CHARGERS check ALL of the following conditions, but, AFAICT, to be considered SMART, they need to check AT LEAST ONE, but preferably more, of the first THREE.):
DeltaV
MAX Voltage
MAX Temperature
MAX Time
...otherwise they'd be called DUMB CHARGERS. 

Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]



StandardBattery said:


> ...He is right about the AAA charging, this is known, and *I would not recommend charging AAA in the charger*, but I'm not sure the gurus here have gone so far as to say that...


Please provide some LINKs to support this statement.

If you choose an appropriate charging current (i.e. 0.5C) and don't get the AAA cells overly hot (1.0C or higher), I don't see why there would be any problem. 0.14C (100/700) or 0.12C (100/800) isn't so much current over Standard Charge that two hours worth is going to do any damage to the cell.



StandardBattery said:


> ...I'd like to know more about the Break-In cycle comments. If he is more or less right on this point then I would say he knows a lot. *I'm not a big fan of Break-In*, I'm more of a manual charge, discharge kind of guy. Mainly though it is because I have not had the time or the proper situation to give it a real test.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sadly for me, though, is the fact that I have a difficult time letting incorrect information go by unchallenged (although the folks that I've personally deemed 'gurus' here don't seem to.   ).

I enjoy learning new things. And, I enjoy sharing my knowledge and thereby, helping other people. So, if you GOOGLE my User ID, you'll find several FAQs (similar to the one in my Sig Line) on various forums.

READ, LEARN, LIVE LONG and PROSPER... :buddies:


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## UnknownVT (Jan 14, 2009)

Bobo The Bear said:


> http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=15870328&postcount=67


 
Re: the post on SlickDeals from the opening statement:

" _I orded it from Thomas Distributing before its release two years ago_ "

I am not an expert on the Maha C9000 but wasn't there some problem with early versions - that's pretty well known and documented?
(and his has to be an early version, since he ordered _*before*_ it was even released)


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## StandardBattery (Jan 14, 2009)

*Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...*



TakeTheActive said:


> Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum?
> 
> Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.
> 
> ...



Ya we're not talking about how they are suppose to work, were talking about how they work, in fact the debate was whether they were "DUMB CHARGERS" or "SMART CHARGES". There have been a few revisions you know, they weren't too smart on the first release.




TakeTheActive said:


> Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]



This is true, but he is complaining about them charging too hot, and we're trying to be nice as a smart charger will charge them without making the cells reach max temperature. That's a safety mechanism and something a dumb charge might rely on.



TakeTheActive said:


> Please provide some LINKs to support this statement.


Ummm msg 9 and msg 11? and several previous posting on the charger operation.

*...*



TakeTheActive said:


> Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Sadly for me, though, is the fact that I have a difficult time letting incorrect information go by unchallenged


I'm not giving any incorrect information, just an opinion and some ideas on how to determine the facts. In fact we are challenging the information given in the other form... but were not just dismissing it. 


Well I to am trying to be helpful, I'm sorry if you don't see it that way.

:welcome:


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## traveler (Jan 26, 2009)

*Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...*

I heard that MH-C9000 will have new model this year. Should I wait for a few months?


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## Burgess (Jan 27, 2009)

And just WHERE did you hear this piece of information ? ? ?


We would simply LOVE an updated model,
with a USB interface connection.


:twothumbs
_


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## Hoggy (Feb 4, 2009)

Is it really true that the C9000 will top off a AAA for 2 hours at 100 ma? Even during the 'rest' period between refresh-type cycles? If so, how damaging could that be? (100 ma for 2 hours sounds like an awful lot for AAA's.)
I've been reading the 'batteries' area here for over a year, but this is the first time I heard about the AAA thing.. (or, at least, comprehended it. )

I just received a BC-900 about 12 hours ago - to compliment my C9000. So should I use my bc-900 for my main AAA charging needs? And only use the Maha for break-ins and whatnot - for AAA's?


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## SilverFox (Apr 6, 2009)

Hello Hoggy,

Yes there is a 2 hour top off after the charger shows done. The top off charge rate is 100 mA.

With AAA cells, it is not a problem if you charge at higher charge rates. For example, if you have 800 mAh cells, you should charge in the 500 - 800 mA range. If you do this, the charger will terminate on high voltage (1.47 volts) and utilize the top off charge to complete the charging process.

If you charge AAA cells at 200 mA, you could run into some problems with overcharge from the top off charge. Of course this would depend on the capacity of the cells you are charging.

Tom


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## yite (Jun 30, 2009)

Thanks to everyone for such complete information!

I'm in the market for a charger with at least four independent charging circuits. While my Maha C204-W has four slots, it requires two batteries to run either "double bay", and I doubt that it's optimally charging batteries.

Want to make sure that the Maha MH-C9000 will absolutely, completely, independently charge each battery separately. However, Tom's original report of 02-25-2007 says that "In multi cell applications, your device will stop working when the lowest capacity cell runs out. To get the best performance in multi cell applications, you need to match your cells on capacity. This way they all run out at the same time. The discharge mode of the C9000 allows you to do this."

I may well be missing something, but wouldn't that mean that each slot is NOT charging its battery completely independent of the others?


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## yite (Jun 30, 2009)

*Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...*



TakeTheActive said:


> Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]
> 
> 
> [quotation above from TakeTheActive on 01-14-2009]
> ...


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## vali (Jun 30, 2009)

Yes, the C9000 will charge completely every single cell since and every slot have its own channel.

When Tom was talking about multi-cell applications and that the _device_ will stop working when the first cell run out, that device is the one where you use the cells (a flashlight or whatever), not the charger itself (in fact, if I am not wrong, the device will not stop working, but the "good" cells will start to reverse charging the depleted cell).


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## yite (Jun 30, 2009)

TakeTheActive said:


> Why so much confusion / posting / 'hysteria' over ONE RANDOM POST on another forum?
> 
> Invest a few hours, do your own research and make your own 'informed' decisions.
> 
> ...





vali said:


> Yes, the C9000 will charge completely every single cell since and every slot have its own channel.
> 
> When Tom was talking about multi-cell applications and that the _device_ will stop working when the first cell run out, that device is the one where you use the cells (a flashlight or whatever), not the charger itself (in fact, if I am not wrong, the device will not stop working, but the "good" cells will start to reverse charging the depleted cell).





Many thanks to Vali for your reply. (Jeez, that makes sense!)

Sorry I can't understand the computer system used in this forum and can't find a phone number to call someone to clarify what I should do to spare regular users the torture of "newbies". (It seems that above what I'm writing here in my message is stuff starting with completely extraneous material, for which I apologise but can't rectify.)

I did post another query which I hope someone can answer (probably revealing my ignorance, which I happily acknowledge):



TakeTheActive said:


> Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely. [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]
> 
> [quotation above from TakeTheActive on 01-14-2009]
> 
> Does this mean that the Maha MH-C9000 will NOT fully charge batteries?!


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## TakeTheActive (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...*



yite said:


> TakeTheActive said:
> 
> 
> > Furthermore, continued reading of the CPF Archives in 'Maha MH-C9000' specific threads would have revealed that *AA cells are NOT fully charged when the trigger condition (either DeltaV or Max Voltage, IIRC) is met and the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely.* [AFAIK, SMART CHARGERS *SHUTDOWN* at Max Temperature and Max Time.]
> ...


No. Please re-read the portion highlighted in green.

Maha lowered Max Voltage in the current MH-C9000 to prevent overcharging / overheating if cells miss -DeltaV. The effect was that most AA cells now terminated on Max Voltage instead of -DeltaV leaving them slightly undercharged (@~90%, IIRC). Thus, *the TopOff Charge (100mA for 2hrs) finishes the job nicely.*

A side effect, of concern to some, is the effect of the TopOff Charge on the smaller, lower capacity AAAs.



SilverFox said:


> ...With AAA cells, it is not a problem if you charge at higher charge rates. For example, if you have 800 mAh cells, you should charge in the 500 - 800 mA range. If you do this, the charger will terminate on high voltage (1.47 volts) and utilize the top off charge to complete the charging process.
> 
> If you charge AAA cells at 200 mA, you could run into some problems with overcharge from the top off charge. Of course this would depend on the capacity of the cells you are charging.


My MH-C9000 runs 24x7 doing BREAK-INs and/or REFRESHes on my stock of non-LSD AA NiMHs so I haven't experienced the AAA overcharging / overheating problem - I use my La Crosse BC-900 or Rayovac PS23-B for recharging them.


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## TakeTheActive (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...*



yite said:


> Many thanks to Vali for your reply. (Jeez, that makes sense!)
> 
> *Sorry I can't understand the computer system used in this forum and can't find a phone number to call someone to clarify what I should do to spare regular users the torture of "newbies".*



*yite,*

This is a "Volunteer" Forum, not a "Paid" Service. The folks who participate do so because they enjoy it - they are under no obligation to continue to do so. And, they may even choose to ignore certain questions. That's how a Forum works. There's no phone number to call - it's all 'Self-Service'. 



yite said:


> ...(It seems that above what I'm writing here in my message is stuff starting with completely extraneous material, for which I apologise but can't rectify.)
> 
> I did post another query which I hope someone can answer (probably revealing my ignorance, which I happily acknowledge):


IMHO, the *BEST* thing a "Newbie" can do to cure 'ignorance' is to *Invest a Few Hours, READ, and Make Your Own 'Informed' Decisions...*

That's what I did when I first arrived here (SEVERAL hours per week for a few MONTHS!) and that's how my Sig Line LINKs came into being. There's LOTs of good info in there - put on a pot of coffee, sit down for a few hours and READ... (MUCH easier than finding all the info yourself!  )



yite said:


> ...*I'm in the market for a charger with at least four independent charging circuits...*


If you want to LEARN about rechargeable batteries, the CPF Archives are definitely one of the BEST places to visit. EVERYTHING you need to know is here - most of it BURIED in thousands upon thousands of posts - BUT, it's here! (Some folks have even assembled FAQs on different subjects - check the STICKYs at the top of each forum.)

If you want to USE rechargeable batteries without investing the time reading, buy the Maha MH-C9000 and several packs of Eneloops and just use them.


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## yite (Jul 2, 2009)

Many thanks for all your help!

Will now try to buy a unit, perhaps when visiting the US this month.


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## Geogecko (Jan 5, 2010)

Is there a reliable way to charge C and possibly D size cells with this charger? It would seem that you lose the over-temperature feature, so I'm not sure how safe that would be.

Does anyone make adapters that are like the reverse of the AA to C adapters, so that you could charge a C size battery in this charger (like a dummy AA with wires to a battery tray that holds a C or D cell)?

I've thought about getting the MH-C808M, but like the features of the C9000. I have asked several times if Maha is coming out with one that can do C and D, and never get a response.


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## vk4akp (Jan 20, 2010)

Wow, What a brilliant charger and what a brilliant review! Thanks!

I have some questions if that's OK?

I mainly use Varta Ready2Use 2100mAh AA's and 800mAh AAA's.
But I do also have a lot of other older batteries that I will most likely cycle and use for less demanding items around the home. 

I currently use a Vanson V-6988. http://www.vanson.com.hk/details/vansonnel2010a.html

It's been a great charger and I use a lot of batteries here so being able to charge 10 cells at once is a blessing. I really wish Maha would bring out a 10 bay version of their MH-C9000.

But anyhow. 

Where would be the cheapest place to get a couple of HM-C9000's? I'm located in Australia but am happy to buy from the USA if it saves money as long as I still get the latest version and with the Australian wall connector / plug pack. (I would also like the 12VDC Car adapters as well). 

I have got into the habit of cycling (Discharging) all my batteries at the beginning of every charge cycle. Generally the batteries are close to flat anyhow. Am I doing any damage to the newer chemistry's like the Varta and Sanyo Eneloop style batteries by doing this?

I've also always been a big believer in slow charging batteries. 
And I have always got a good life out of my batteries in the past.
Early NiCd > 10 yrs, NiMh 6+ yrs and still going.
Can I continue to slow charge using this charger safely? I have read some of your very interesting threads on this and do understand that you should charge at a certain rate to get a more pronounced -delta V indication. 
But what has your real life experience been in this regard?

Can one set / tell the charger the actual battery capacity to help it make it's decisions?

Does the charger remember the settings after power loss?

Can this charger work with or will it ever be able to work with the new NiZn chemistry's.

Lastly, who ever sends the MaHa people all the good info on improving their charger. Ask them to add a USB port so we can flash and tweak our own units. Now wouldn't that be great. Imagine bring up a list of settings on a PC screen that we could edit.  Also a 10 bay model would be fantastic! 

.-.-.


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## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Jan 20, 2010)

I bought my Mh-C9000 very recently from Jeff at Servaas Products. He's in Victoria. The service was excellent, I got the latest model and an Aussie wall unit and the delivery lightning fast. He also carries the Imedion, Powerex and Eneloop batteries as well as other goodies to make the wallet appear that it's been to Weight Watchers......


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## vk4akp (Jan 20, 2010)

OK, Thanks. Best price I have seen so far without looking too hard is AUD$76 including postage on eBay.

.-.-.


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## Niconical (Jan 20, 2010)

_*I have got into the habit of cycling (Discharging) all my batteries at the beginning of every charge cycle. Generally the batteries are close to flat anyhow. Am I doing any damage to the newer chemistry's like the Varta and Sanyo Eneloop style batteries by doing this?*_

No damage, but it is not needed. Once every 10-15 charges you can do a refresh, and an occasional break-in, but for regular use just insert in charger and choose charge rate (more on that below). 

*I've also always been a big believer in slow charging batteries....., what has your real life experience been in this regard?*

Charge at 0.5C to 1C, which for your LSD cells would be about 1000ma to 2000ma. The C9000 will default to 1000ma if you don't tell it differently. You can select higher if you want, but inserting batteries (AA) and walking away will get you a perfect charge. As for your habit of slow charging, well, technically there's nothing wrong with slow charging, it's not the slow charge that's the problem, it's the not stopping the charge when it should that is the problem. So, for AA stick to the C9000 default or higher for AA, 400ma-800ma for an average AAA. However you ask the question, and however the reply is worded, it's always going to come down to "0.5C - 1C". I believe silverfox actually has tatooed on his forehead "the answer is 0.5C to 1C, next question?"

*Can one set / tell the charger the actual battery capacity to help it make it's decisions?*

Yes, in fact that's the first thing you should do with new batteries (or old if you want to rejuvenate them) for the break-in cycle. 

*Does the charger remember the settings after power loss?*

No. Whatever it was doing before, after a power loss it will come back at the default of charging each slot at 1000ma. 

_*Can this charger work with or will it ever be able to work with the new NiZn chemistry's.*_

No.


----------



## vk4akp (Jan 20, 2010)

Wow, I don't know if I could ever bring myself to charging batteries at 0.5C or 1C. In my mind regardless of how well the charger detects and switches off at full charge that's got to be drastically reducing the cycle life of the cells? All that current and heat has got to be causing the batteries to vent a lot more then what they would on a slow charge?

I'm also surprised the charger starts charging again after a power failure and at such a high current. Seems to be an over looked issue.

Also I guess my question re setting the battery sizes was more aimed at the normal charging cycle. Does the charger reference the setting in this mode at all to assist in a final timer override shut down figure?

TNX
.-.-.


----------



## Niconical (Jan 20, 2010)

I think you're underestimating the C9000. Cells charged at 1000ma barely get warm, and certainly not too hot. As for entering the capacity for a normal charge, that wouldn't be needed for the C9000 anyway, just put in the cells and let it get on with it. The C9000 doesn't have or need a timer based failsafe. As for the defaulting after power loss, it is definitely a pain if you're doing some cycles or break in or whatever, but restarting at 1000ma, that's fine, Maha set that as the default for a reason. 

Look around the forum, every possible flashlight is discussed for every possible situation, and there are always conflicting views for even the most obvious of requirements, with 20 options given when only one was asked for. Ask "what is the best nimh charger?" though, and you'll only get one united answer every time - C9000, 'nuff said. 





vk4akp said:


> Wow, I don't know if I could ever bring myself to charging batteries at 0.5C or 1C. In my mind regardless of how well the charger detects and switches off at full charge that's got to be drastically reducing the cycle life of the cells? All that current and heat has got to be causing the batteries to vent a lot more then what they would on a slow charge?
> 
> I'm also surprised the charger starts charging again after a power failure and at such a high current. Seems to be an over looked issue.
> 
> ...


----------



## vk4akp (Jan 20, 2010)

Oh Yes I must admit I only came across this charger by accident. But your right, it does seem to be the best currently on the market from what I could research over the past 2 days. 

Would still love a 10 cell version with USB for flashing, logging, & tweaking though. 

More questions. 

Because it only has a limited amount of bays. Can I mix and match modes?

Say charge two cell's while breaking in another and capacity testing a 4th?

Also forgot to ask. Is the barrel socket for power a standard size? Or should I buy the 12VDC adapter to get a proper fit for the car?

Oh and I must scan through some more messages on this forum. 

I think the place is about flashlights? I have a couple of Maglites with LED bulbs, but would be keen to research getting some much nicer and smaller torches.

My Main battery use at present is for K200D DSLR, portable Amateur Radio gear, GPS, + lots of general household and portable items. 

I'm very big on AA / AAA powered gear. I refuse to buy anything that takes a custom Li-Ion battery. 

.-.-.


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## Niconical (Jan 20, 2010)

Mixing modes, no problem, each slot can be doing whatever you want. 
You can also mix types, for example slot 1 doing a break-in on a AA, slot 2 doing a standard charge on a AAA. 

Car adapter, sorry, no idea. 

As for flashlights, you like things to run on AA? Start here or maybe here....


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## TakeTheActive (Jan 20, 2010)

vk4akp said:


> Wow, *I don't know if I could ever bring myself to charging batteries at 0.5C or 1C*. In my mind *regardless of how well the charger detects and switches off at full charge*... ...*All that current and heat* has got to be causing the batteries to vent a lot more then what they would on a slow charge?


IME, only *CRAP* / High Internal Resistance cells get warm, or hot, @ 0.5C before they're finished charging. And vibrant cells @ 1.0C don't begin to get warm until they're ~90% charged.

Please read: *Nickel-Based Rechargeables* by *jtr1962*.

Also, look at the numbers for the (current model) C9000 @ 1000mA, 1500mA and 1800mA in: *Test for how well batteries suit your charger* (*Test #A3*). With the lowered 1.47VDC Max Voltage, it terminates BEFORE the cells get hot (like they do in the La Crosse BC-900/BC-9009 at those Charge Rates) *AND* then it 'Tops Them Off' with a gentle 100mA for 2 hours.


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## Apollo Cree (Jan 20, 2010)

There were some reports earlier of occasional failure to terminate charge. I believe that there were some design changes for this. 

Does it appear that the failure to terminate problems are fixed on current units?

By the way, don't confuse it with the LaCrosse charger which looks similar. 

Maha=Powerex
LaCross ^= Maha


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## vali (Jan 20, 2010)

vk4akp said:


> Would still love a 10 cell version with USB for flashing, logging, & tweaking though.



Me too. Doing charging/discharging graphs would be great but, probably, the price would be higher too.




> Because it only has a limited amount of bays. Can I mix and match modes?
> 
> Say charge two cell's while breaking in another and capacity testing a 4th?



Totally independent. You can do a break-in in one slot, a normal charge in the second one, a Refresh & Analize in the third and a discharge in the last one if you want. Of course, you can mix battery sizes too.



> Also forgot to ask. Is the barrel socket for power a standard size? Or should I buy the 12VDC adapter to get a proper fit for the car?



Now I am very curious too. I think its the same size, but didnt try to use in the car yet, so I dont know.



> Oh and I must scan through some more messages on this forum.



Check the batteries sub-forum 



> My Main battery use at present is for K200D DSLR, portable Amateur Radio gear, GPS, + lots of general household and portable items.
> 
> I'm very big on AA / AAA powered gear. I refuse to buy anything that takes a custom Li-Ion battery.
> 
> .-.-.


I dont know what are you waiting for before getting the C9000. Its a great charger indeed. It changed the way I look at batteries and never ran out of juice since I got it. Knowing the real capacity of the cells, pairing them to get best results and being able to know if my batteries are crap or not.


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## vk4akp (Jan 20, 2010)

Thanks for all the good advice and links and stuff guys!

Oh and yes, don't worry I'm getting one!

Just trying to find a good place to buy from currently. 

So far best price has been GreedyBay @ AUD$76 delivered. 

Would prefer to support a local Australian agent though if they can match or come close to the price. 

Might even buy two yet! 

OH & Niconical I think I want one of these.

Brite Strike Tactical Blue Dot flashlight. http://www.brite-strike.com/About.html 

But a version that runs on NiMh AA's !! 

.-.-.


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## vk4akp (Jan 20, 2010)

Just ordered one from Jeff at Servaas.

Your right, very nice chap to deal with. Very helpful. 

Also got a set of IMEDION 2100mAh LSD AA's to compare against our Varta 2100's. 

I'll let you guys know what I think of it all after it arrives and I've had time to play. 

TNX again! 

.-.-.



JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> I bought my Mh-C9000 very recently from Jeff at Servaas Products. He's in Victoria. The service was excellent, I got the latest model and an Aussie wall unit and the delivery lightning fast. He also carries the Imedion, Powerex and Eneloop batteries as well as other goodies to make the wallet appear that it's been to Weight Watchers......


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## vk4akp (Jan 28, 2010)

OK. Got my charger. 

Had a quick play. 

This is what I got so far with a few quick runs. 


```
SLOT   BRAND      mAh  Mode       mAh  Min's Volts  IMP
1       Multi-Pwr   2500 Break-in  1292  165   1.39   1.87
2       RadioShack 1800 Discharge 512    68   1.27  1.84
2       RadioShack 1800 Analyse    707    91   1.41  1.84
2       RadioShack 1800 Discharge 743    96   1.27  1.84
3       Varta R2U   2100 Analyse   1853  240   1.39  1.44
4       Varta R2U   2100 Discharge 1227 409   1.22  1.47
4       Varta R2U   2100 Charge    3548  781   1.38   1.47
```
Multiple Power batteries are very old (maybe almost 10 years).
Radioshack batteries were about 6 years old. 
Varta batteries are almost brand new. Less then 4 cycles. 

Slot 4 Varta had sat some weeks in my camera bag after a full charge in the Vanson V-6988 10x Slot charger. 
Slot 3 Varta was charged the day before in the Vanson. 

Vanson charger charges at 210mA when all 10 slots are full for max of 12 hours and then drops to 21mA trickle. (So I see an instant problem here!) 

I also have a JayCar MB3551 that charges at 250mAh (10 slots filled) with a protection cut out of 15 hours. I haven't been all that impressed with this charger as it often locks up and doesn't stop charging. But I might have to give it a go in future for the 2100's.

Why is the last charge cycle so high with the mAh result?
Is this because it's reporting input current which in my mind goes something like this. 

16h * 210mAh == 3360mAh (Slowest charge calculation). 

Interested in your thoughts.

EDIT: Note updated with battery impedance's as requested. (Tested afterwards though)
.-.-.


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## TakeTheActive (Jan 28, 2010)

vk4akp said:


> OK. Got my charger... ...Had a quick play...
> 
> ...Interested in your thoughts.



Bracket your data with CODE tags:

```
SLOT BRAND        mAh  Mode       mAh  Min's Volts
2       RadioShack 1800 Discharge 512    68    1.27
2       RadioShack 1800 Analyse    707    91    1.41
2       RadioShack 1800 Discharge 743    96    1.27
3       Varta R2U   2100 Analyse   1853  240    1.39
4       Varta R2U   2100 Discharge 1227 409    1.22
4       Varta R2U   2100 Charge    3548  781   1.38
```
(You can tidy up the column alignment on your next post.  )​
Add Charge/Discharge RATE to your table
- Example: *AAA Battery Charger Suggestions Needed!*
Add Impedance Check Voltage to your table
- *Measuring Maha MH-C9000 Impedance Check Voltage*
CLICK on my Sig Line LINK and read about:
Internal Resistance
Storage Box Queens
Cell Recovery




vk4akp said:


> ...Why is the last charge cycle so high with the mAh result?


Missed -DeltaV termination, took a long time to reach Max Voltage or Max Temp.


vk4akp said:


> ...Is this because it's reporting input current which in my mind goes something like this.
> 
> 16h * 210mAh == 3360mAh (Slowest charge calculation)...


You label it a CHARGE function. If it were a BREAK-IN (0.1C for 16hrs), then 3360mAh would apply. That's where posting your Charge/Discharge Rate would help.


vk4akp said:


> *.-.-.*


*Wikipedia: Morse Code - Plus*?  Amateur Radio abbreviation for?


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## vk4akp (Jan 28, 2010)

All charge rates were set at 300mAh and discharge rates at 500mAh. 
(Except where the charger overrides and sets it's own rates). 

.-.-.


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## servaas (Jan 28, 2010)

JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> I bought my Mh-C9000 very recently from Jeff at Servaas Products. He's in Victoria. The service was excellent, I got the latest model and an Aussie wall unit and the delivery lightning fast. He also carries the Imedion, Powerex and Eneloop batteries as well as other goodies to make the wallet appear that it's been to Weight Watchers......


Thanks for the recommendation


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## servaas (Jan 28, 2010)

vk4akp said:


> Just ordered one from Jeff at Servaas.
> 
> Your right, very nice chap to deal with. Very helpful.
> 
> ...


Look forward to seeing your results!


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## vk4akp (Jan 29, 2010)

Updated the data with impedance readings as requested and as per the instructions. 

Also added SLOT 1 data now that it has finished. 

Have done some reading of some of those links. Some very interesting information that I never knew. (Thanks). 
Would love a copy of that guys book. (Only US$4.95 now + shipping). 
Maybe if there are enough people interested we could buy a few as a group and farm them out?

It will be hard for me but I can see now that I will have to fight my instincts hard and forget my ways with slow charging now that I am using NiMh.

Will try the same batteries again with 1000mAh.



vk4akp said:


> OK. Got my charger.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


----------



## TakeTheActive (Jan 29, 2010)

vk4akp said:


> Updated the data with impedance readings as requested and as per the instructions.
> 
> Also added SLOT 1 data now that it has finished...


I find your table confusing to read. Are we dealing with 3 cells or 7? Slot number is unnecessary. Labeling cells is. Please number your cells and consider changing your table format to the one I suggested. 



vk4akp said:


> ...*Have done some reading of some of those links. Some very interesting information that I never knew*. (Thanks)...


LOTs of good information is BURIED in the CPF 'Batteries Included' Archives!



vk4akp said:


> ...*Will try the same batteries again with 1000mAh*.




```
SLOT    BRAND       mAh   Mode        mAh   ICV
1       Multi-Pwr   2500  Break-in   1292  1.87
2       RadioShack  1800  Discharge   512  1.84
2       RadioShack  1800  Analyse     707  1.84
2       RadioShack  1800  Discharge   743  1.84
3       Varta R2U   2100  Analyse    1853  1.44
4       Varta R2U   2100  Discharge  1227  1.47
4       Varta R2U   2100  Charge     3548  1.47
```
The Varta R2U cell(s), being the newest, are the most vibrant as demonstrated by their low Impedance Check Voltage. 
DISCHARGE them @ 400mA; report the Capacity.
Wait 1 hour
DISCHARGE them @ 100mA; report the Capacity.
Run a BREAK-IN @ 2100mAh; report the Capacity.
CYCLE them 3 times with CHARGE @ 1000mA and DISCHARGE @ 400mA; report the Capacity.
Did the Capacity increase after each CYCLE?

The Multi-Pwr and RadioShack cell(s) have high Internal Resistance, again demonstrated by their higher Impedance Check Voltages. That's why they cannot handle a 500mA DISCHARGE. Charging them @ 1000mA will only damage them more by overheating them.
DISCHARGE them @ 100mA; report the Capacity.
CYCLE them 5 times with CHARGE @ 600mA and DISCHARGE @ 100mA; report the Capacity. 
Monitor the first CHARGE. If the cells get hot (GT 120°F), lower the Charge Rate; if the cells are warm (LT 90°F), raise the Charge Rate. Use 100mA 'steps' until you get the 'hang of it'.
Did the Capacity increase after each CYCLE?
Did the Impedance Check Voltage decrease after the 5th CYCLE?

In all probability, they're *CRAP* or worse, but, I use those type of cells in thermometers and remote controls. You can use them to 'get familiar' with your new toy or you can toss them into the Recycle Bin.

Have fun!


----------



## vk4akp (Feb 17, 2010)

Finally got some time to play with the charger again over the past couple of days. 

Charged 2 sets of 4 AA 2100mAh Varta batteries. 

Both times two of the cells didn't terminate at the right time got red hot and I ended up pulling them far too late. Probably killed them actually. 
These are brand new batteries. Flattened them first. But the missed terminations reaching some 3200+ mAh before I pulled them. 

Instructions say do not use currents lower then 0.33C.

So I set it to charge using 700mAh. Which should be just above the minimum. 

Next batch I will try at 1000mAh. But if this fails I think I'll give up and go back to the slow charger. Can't afford to keep killing new cells. 

.-.-.


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## servaas (Feb 17, 2010)

The C9000 charger uses Zero Delta V or Negative Delta V to terminate the charge termination. At below 0.33C, the change (delta) in voltage is very low, and it is difficult to detect the charge completion. If you follow the minimum guideline of 0.33C, you should be fine. 

The Break-In mode uses 0.1C for 16 hours, providing a 60% overcharge, whereas you have only overcharged about 50%, so I will be surprised if you have killed your Varta cells.


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## vk4akp (Feb 17, 2010)

2100 mAh * 0.33 = 693mA

I charged at 700mA yet both times two slots didn't terminate. 
(Reaching 3200+ mAh before pulled or termination).

I have another brand new batch of Varta's charging at 1000mA to see if they terminate on time.

Each time I discharged the cells first at 200mA to be sure they were empty. 

Will see what happens this time at 1000mA.

.-.-.


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## vk4akp (Mar 26, 2010)

Back again.

Still not having too much luck with this thing. 

Firstly I have been charging all my AA's at the default current setting of 1000mA. So far no missed terminations. 

However I just tried a pair of Varta 800mAh AAA batteries.

I set the current to 50% of C (400mA).

Both batteries had reached over 2300mAh before I discovered them and pulled them. They were so red hot they burnt my fingers as I pulled them out. 

I noted the voltage on both were sitting at 1.42 Volts. So I assume they had both well and truly dipped at some point. 

Once again these batteries were close to brand new. Having had maybe 2-3 cycles so far.

I assume they are only fit for the trash now?

I really believe the biggest feature this thing is missing is the ability to set the battery capacity in the charge settings. If the charger knew for sure what the capacity was it could then make an educated decision of when to give up on charging as a fail safe. 

Is there anything I am missing or don't understand with the process?

- Do newer batteries require this excessive charging on the first few charges to break them in perhaps?
- or am I not getting a clear -Neg Delta V or Temperature termination because the batter's were never run through the breakin process first?
- Or is this a common problem with fast chargers as -Neg Delta V is very hard to detect?

.-.-.


----------



## vk4akp (Apr 6, 2010)

Just tried some Varta AAA 800mAh batteries again. 

Charging rate 400mA.

3x failed to terminate. At 1100mAh I pulled them. 
1x terminated at 96mAh.

All batteries were first fully discharged. 

I have discharged them again and am now trying them at a higher rate 500mA to see if this helps.

.-.-.


----------



## servaas (Apr 6, 2010)

> Is there anything I am missing or don't understand with the process?
> 
> - Do newer batteries require this excessive charging on the first few charges to break them in perhaps?


No


> - or am I not getting a clear -Neg Delta V or Temperature termination because the batter's were never run through the breakin process first?


No, that would not be the case


> - Or is this a common problem with fast chargers as -Neg Delta V is very hard to detect?


 I have tested Varta R2U AA and AAA in a MH-C9000, and have not seen termination issues. Actually I have not seen _any_ termination issues with the MH-C9000. Given the number of times you have missed a termination, maybe there is something wrong with your charger?

If you want to send it back to us, I'll do some tests with Powerex batteries and see if they are terminated correctly.


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## TakeTheActive (Apr 6, 2010)

vk4akp said:


> Just tried some *Varta AAA 800mAh* batteries again.
> 
> Charging rate *400mA*.
> 
> 3x failed to terminate. At *1100mAh* I pulled them...



What was the C9000 displayed VDC @ 1100mAh?
.
Were the cells hot @ 1100mAh?
*__________________________________________________*​
*UPDATE: * (Re-read your old posts)




vk4akp said:


> ...*Charged 2 sets of 4 AA 2100mAh Varta batteries.
> 
> Both times two of the cells didn't terminate at the right time got red hot and I ended up pulling them far too late*...
> 
> ...These are brand new batteries...






vk4akp said:


> ...*I charged at 700mA yet both times two slots didn't terminate.
> (Reaching 3200+ mAh before pulled or termination)*...






vk4akp said:


> ...*Firstly I have been charging all my AA's at the default current setting of 1000mA. So far no missed terminations.
> 
> However I just tried a pair of Varta 800mAh AAA batteries.
> 
> ...



It's either:
Bad / worn / defective cells
OR​
Bad / worn / defective charger
Possibly you can make a deal with Maha and/or *servaas*:

Buy (or get sent) 4 new AAA LSD cells and 4 new AA LSD cells
Run the appropriate Break-Ins (2000mAh and 800mAh), followed by
10 Cycles of 0.5C Charge and 0.2C Discharge
If the new cells pass with flying colors, it was your old cells.

If the new cells fail, it was the charger and possibly Maha will compensate you for your damaged (ala before this test) cells.


----------



## vk4akp (Apr 6, 2010)

Last night I ran the same AAA Varta cells through again. This time at a higher rate 500mA.

Two had not terminated past 2000mAh, so I pulled these and they were very hot. The other two terminated at 1885mAh & 1579mAh.

All these batteries are brand new or close to brand new and have been bought at different places and at different times so I doubt it's old cells / bad stock etc. 

Also I have been watching the impedance test at the beginning of the charge and the batteries all come up with about 1.45 - 1.49 out of interest. 

An interesting thing this time I watched the voltage from time to time and I noticed a clear dip at the end down to 1.40 volts on the first bay. (This was one of the bays that failed to terminate way past 2000mAH).

My assumption is that for some strange reason the charger is missing the -Neg Delta V at times. 

I think it might be best to follow Jeff's recommendation to send it back for testing. 

I don't really want to be mucking people around but I guess it is possible I might simply have a faulty unit. 

.-.-.


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Apr 6, 2010)

I use a lot of AAA cells, Imedion, Powerplus and Energiser brands. I usually charge three and four at a time and have had the charger since before christmas and as far as I can remember I have only had one missed termination on them in that time and that appears to have been a dud Powerplus cell. These days I charge all my AAA's at 700.

It seems my unit has no troubles with triple A's so it's possible that it's not a problem endemic to the type of charger but an actual fault with yours, though admittedly I've never tried the Varta brand so that doesn't rule out some sort of mismatch.


----------



## aim54x (Apr 7, 2010)

I recently got a MH-C9000 and have been very happy with it. The refresh cycle has resurrected three sets of AAs for me (cheap INCA 2600 and 2700). I am glad I have something like this to look after my ENELOOP and IMEDION batteries now.


----------



## servaas (Apr 7, 2010)

Aussie Aussie Aussie ....


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Apr 7, 2010)

oi oi oi............


----------



## TakeTheActive (Apr 7, 2010)

servaas said:


> ...If you want to send it back to us, I'll do some tests with Powerex batteries and see if they are terminated correctly.





vk4akp said:


> ...I think it might be best to follow Jeff's recommendation to send it back for testing...


*servaas* = Jeff? Did you originally buy it from him?

Certainly sounds like you got a defective charger.

I'll check back here next week for the updates.

OT: What's the significance of the Morse Code at the end of your posts?

*Wikipedia: Morse Code - Plus*


----------



## vk4akp (Apr 7, 2010)

Hi, Yep purchased through Jeff. We shopped around and he was good enough to help us out so it's always good to try and support local business where possible. 

Have sent off an email and will get a second unit up hopefully to try first. That way if it's something our end it saves mucking people around and unnecessary postage costs to our group. 

Besides, you can never have too many C9000's! 

It could yet just be something strange about the brand of batteries we are using. We've mainly bought Varta as they were readily available in Woolworths for a reasonable price and Varta have always been a major player in battery technologies. 

The Morse at the end of the message signifies *AR* With the bar actually over the top not the bottom. The letters *A* *. -* _(di-dah)_ & *R* *. - .* _(di-dah-dit)_ sent with no gap _(di-dah-di-dah-dit)_ signal the end of a message in Morse code. 

Something I've been doing in forums now for over ten years as a bit of a little joke or trade mark thing. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morse_code

Would you believe your only the second person ever to pick up on it and ask! Well done, you have an inquisitive mind. 

I'll be sure to let everyone know what the outcome is in this little mystery. 

.-.-.


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Apr 7, 2010)

I assume from your userID that you're a licenced Ham. Do you still have to qualify in morse to get the amateur licence these days?


----------



## vk4akp (Apr 8, 2010)

Hi, Yep. Been licensed some 10+ years now. Fantastic hobby. 

My license is the highest class. At the time I did 10 WPM Morse send and receive, Advanced electronic theory, and regulations as the 4 tests to qualify. 

These days you can get the easiest license (Foundation) in a weekend. 
Two days study a multi-choice test and a short on air practical test. 

Sadly there is no Morse test required these days at all for any of the license classes. This is not necessarily a good thing either. 

As you could imagine. We do a lot with battery technologies in the field. 
When the power goes out you have to be ready as communications in emergency situations can save lives. 

In my mind Li-Ion battery technology's just don't cut it. They have a 2 year half shelf life, are very dangerous if punched, and they are highly non universal in the field to name just a few issues. 

This charger is the first I have seen to offer so much flexibility. 

Useful features to the Amateur Radio operator. 

- 12VDC power option.
- Can fast charge cells very quickly if needed.
- Can test the capacity of cells. 
-= (Won't get caught out with 1 useless cell in a pack).
- Known cell capacity allows for better cell matching in packs.
- Fairly compact & with carry bag for the field.
- Rejuvenation and break-in modes for maintaining cells.
- Can give a good indication on cell health and expected performance.

Couple this with LSD NiMh battery technology and I feel this is a must have device for the Amateur Radio community. 

I hope to promote these further and get something happening where we can get these in the hands of most Amateurs as specially those participating in WICEN activities. 

.-.-.



JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> I assume from your userID that you're a licenced Ham. Do you still have to qualify in morse to get the amateur licence these days?


----------



## vk4akp (Apr 16, 2010)

OK, Here's a bit of an update. 

The results aren't all that good unfortunately. 

I ordered a second MH-C9000 to compare. 

Yesterday I ran a set of 4x Varta 800mA AAA's through the new charger @ 400mA charge rate.

They terminated at 3014, 862, 917, & 1364mAh. 

So already it seems it's a problem with the MH-C9000 & Varta R2U batteries. 

I'll do some more tests with some near new cells and also some brand new cells and report the results here. 

After this I'll give it a miss for a while though as I'm already quiet disappointed at how many new batteries I have treated so badly. 

One question remains though. What can be done to reprogram these chargers so they terminate properly with the Varta cells?

.-.-.


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## planetf1 (Apr 17, 2010)

Any thoughts on a comparison with the "Ansman Energy Plus 8" (ignoring the different form factors / supported types since I'm after home use / AA+AAA only)

I was sold on the Energy 8 until I saw this C9000 - wondering whether there's much practical difference in terms of
- ability to best recondition cells
- ability to get the most power out of a battery once charged
- best to protect cell longer term (temperature, overcharging etc).

The ansmann looks more hands off, whilst the Maha is a little more nerdy but does provide better feedback. Both seem solid brands.


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## typinghands (Apr 7, 2011)

I recently got my 9000 and a I am very pleased with the capabilities it provides. I especially like that each battery is measured and charged/discharged independently. None of this charging by 2's or even by groups of 4.

The unit seems to be built well and handles the heat issue so much better than the La Crosse 9009 does.

I give it a big 2 thumbs up!


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## MrAnchovy (Apr 10, 2011)

Hi All, 

New to the forum, but been using this charger for awhile with mixed results. I have been charging Sanyo 2100-2500 mAh and Energizer 2500 mAh AA cells with no issues. Also purchased some of the PowerEx brand hi cap 2700 mAh AA cells. The Wizard One charges, analyzes and cycles all of my AA sized cells with no issues. The problem I have seen is with charging AAA sized cells. I have several pairs of Sanyo 1000 mAh AAA cells and the Wizard One charger is unable to recognize any of the 8 cells I have tried. The charger will light up for a second, like it sees the battery I inserted, but the display will go blank shortly after inserting the battery. Anyone out there having similar issues? Did I get a dud? Is it my cells or the charger? Should I try another brand/capacity AAA cell?

Thanks all for reading

Dan


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## bbb74 (Apr 11, 2011)

Dan this might the wrong forum for that question. But it may be that you aren't fully inserting the AAA batteries. You need to push them in at the bottom, then slide the top down and push it down hard. Or the batteries are bad


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## roddo (Apr 29, 2011)

Just got a very simple question.... after a battery has finished charging, is it safe to just pull out of the socket and insert a new one, or do you have to wait till all cells finish charging then unplug the unit then remove the batteries?


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## jonnyfgroove (Apr 29, 2011)

roddo said:


> Just got a very simple question.... after a battery has finished charging, is it safe to just pull out of the socket and insert a new one, or do you have to wait till all cells finish charging then unplug the unit then remove the batteries?



You don't need to unplug it, each slot will reset when you remove/insert a new cell.


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## bbb74 (Apr 29, 2011)

roddo said:


> Just got a very simple question.... after a battery has finished charging, is it safe to just pull out of the socket and insert a new one, or do you have to wait till all cells finish charging then unplug the unit then remove the batteries?


 
Yes you can pull a battery out when its finished. But remember that 
a) The c9000 puts out a 100ma top up charge for 2 hours after DONE appears.
b) Try to charge batteries you are going to use together in a device in the same way and balance them. Ie. don't pull one out once DONE appears, then leave the other in for 2 hours after DONE. Better to make sure they have about the same capacity.


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## roddo (May 2, 2011)

Cool, thanks guys.


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## rwharold (Feb 4, 2013)

vk4akp said:


> OK, Thanks. Best price I have seen so far without looking too hard is AUD$76 including postage on eBay.
> 
> .-.-.



The lowest price that I have found for the Maha C-9000 is at: http://www.healthhelperstore.com/4783_page_1307390.htm where the price is $44.47 plus shipping for $6.23 for a total of $50.70. There is also one on eBay for $52.77 plus FREE shipping. I hope this information helps.


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## rwharold (Feb 12, 2013)

rwharold said:


> The lowest price that I have found for the Maha C-9000 is at: http://www.healthhelperstore.com/4783_page_1307390.htm where the price is $44.47 plus shipping for $6.23 for a total of $50.70. There is also one on eBay for $52.77 plus FREE shipping. I hope this information helps.




The Health Helper Store price has gone up to over $48 + over $11 shipping charge bringing the total price to over $60!!! Now the best price is on eBay at $52.77 + free shipping. Amazon.com also has two sources selling them for $53.97 + free shipping. Hope this helps.


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## lowks (Feb 26, 2013)

The discussion here mostly focuses on functionality. I wished someone here with electronic know how would open both a LaCrosse and Maha and compare the inner circuitry and see which one is better built.


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## EZO (Feb 27, 2013)

lowks said:


> The discussion here mostly focuses on functionality. I wished someone here with electronic know how would open both a LaCrosse and Maha and compare the inner circuitry and see which one is better built.



There are many threads on the subject of the Maha vs LaCrosse. Just try a SEARCH.

P.S. :welcome:


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