# WE M300 Lion, a very underrated light, but why? (1185 tested)



## cernobila (Sep 21, 2009)

Well, just before my last OS trip I decided to get myself the M300 Lion. I am a fan of the 18650 cells so I thought why not try a compact short 3 cell light with a nice reflector and plenty of practical output with well over an hour of run time (especially with the AW 2600 mAh cells) .......I have not looked back since. With many 2 and 3 cell lights available with such bulbs as the common 1111 and 1185's, I kept picking up the M300 for both, inside and outside work at night. The stock standard lamp/reflector gave a perfect beam with lots of throw without the washed out hot spot while also having a very useful side spill some would consider flood........It fits in my shoulder bag much better than the longer lights and its easier to carry, has plenty of output (throw and flood) and more than enough run time.........I do not understand why I have not picked this one up much earlier......glad I did.


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## Norm (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: WE M300 Lion, a very underrated light, but why?*

I really think this light has been overlooked because of the lack of alternative lamps.
Norm


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: WE M300 Lion, a very underrated light, but why?*



cernobila said:


> Well, just before my last OS trip I decided to get myself the M300 Lion. I am a fan of the 18650 cells so I thought why not try a compact short 3 cell light with a nice reflector and plenty of practical output with well over an hour of run time (especially with the AW 2600 mAh cells) .......I have not looked back since. With many 2 and 3 cell lights available with such bulbs as the common 1111 and 1185's, I kept picking up the M300 for both, inside and outside work at night. The stock standard lamp/reflector gave a perfect beam with lots of throw without the washed out hot spot while also having a very useful side spill some would consider flood........It fits in my shoulder bag much better than the longer lights and its easier to carry, has plenty of output (throw and flood) and more than enough run time.........I do not understand why I have not picked this one up much earlier......glad I did.


I agree! The Lion is a great light, but I think that its lack of upgrade options (no 3rd party lamp assembly, only one bulb option from WE) and the price point drive most potential buyers away from it. I believe it would be smarter if Wolf-Eyes sold the M300 without the batteries and the recharger. Make the rechargeable kit an option, this would create a more attractive price for those with lots of spare 18650s and chargers. Also, more lamp assembly choices from the factory would be a great selling point. Design a LOLA and an extreme high-output lamp for it, they should have a winner...


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## cernobila (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: WE M300 Lion, a very underrated light, but why?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I agree! The Lion is a great light, but I think that its lack of upgrade options (no 3rd party lamp assembly, only one bulb option from WE) and the price point drive most potential buyers away from it. I believe it would be smarter if Wolf-Eyes sold the M300 without the batteries and the recharger. Make the rechargeable kit an option, this would create a more attractive price for those with lots of spare 18650s and chargers. Also, more lamp assembly choices from the factory would be a great selling point. Design a LOLA and an extreme high-output lamp for it, they should have a winner...



Yeah I agree, selling it on its own should not be that hard.......the lamps could be a bigger problem as the design only fits the M300, but in all reality I still picked this one even though I had a number of other lights to choose from with a choice of stronger and weaker lamps from LF.......still don’t understand why its not more popular.


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## Phaserburn (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: WE M300 Lion, a very underrated light, but why?*

Because the M90 has so many more choices with similar output. Yes, it's a longish light compared to the M300 for sure, but it's less expensive too. More options + less expensive = more popular.

I'd also love to see a bare M300 for sale, with some bulb options.


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## Juggernaut (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: WE M300 Lion, a very underrated light, but why?*



Phaserburn said:


> Because the M90 has so many more choices with similar output. Yes, it's a longish light compared to the M300 for sure, but it's less expensive too. More options + less expensive = more popular.
> 
> I'd also love to see a bare M300 for sale, with some bulb options.


 
+1
 
I always wanted this light:thumbsup:, but the M90 just sort of makes it obsolete. Though I really like it’s form factor. It was the first high end light I ever held “at a gun show” before all of this CPF madness! You can buy a M90 for $50 and go from there, not starting at $200 and have no place left to go:sigh:.


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## Dioni (Sep 21, 2009)

*Re: WE M300 Lion, a very underrated light, but why?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I agree! The Lion is a great light, but I think that its lack of upgrade options (no 3rd party lamp assembly, only one bulb option from WE) and the price point drive most potential buyers away from it. I believe it would be smarter if Wolf-Eyes sold the M300 without the batteries and the recharger. Make the rechargeable kit an option, this would create a more attractive price for those with lots of spare 18650s and chargers. Also, more lamp assembly choices from the factory would be a great selling point. Design a LOLA and an extreme high-output lamp for it, they should have a winner...


 
+1

Realy a very underrated light but certainly 'cause this: lack of more bulbs options. 
After all, it's a 3x18650's Flashlight. Can you imagine it with 3xIMRs and a wide variety of lamp setups? :green:


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## cernobila (Sep 23, 2009)

Well, as you do, I have used a broken lamp (my fault) to do a conversion to use the popular 1185 bulb in the M300. Did similar things to the Eagle and M100 lamps in the past. This time, even though the conversion did work it was not very practical for technical reasons........HOWEVER, while trying out the 1185 in the M300 I noticed that the actual output of the 1185 was not much more than the original WE lamp. Tried it indoors, then outdoors and came to the conclusion that the conversion isn’t actually necessary. I ended up swapping the two in and out in the light to confirm my observations......So, for those that are disappointed with having only the one lamp available for the M300, its not so bad after all....I for one will be ordering a few more of the WE M300 lamps as these are about perfect.


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## RichS (Sep 23, 2009)

cernobila said:


> Well, as you do, I have used a broken lamp (my fault) to do a conversion to use the popular 1185 bulb in the M300. Did similar things to the Eagle and M100 lamps in the past. This time, even though the conversion did work it was not very practical for technical reasons........HOWEVER, while trying out the 1185 in the M300 I noticed that the actual output of the 1185 was not much more than the original WE lamp. Tried it indoors, then outdoors and came to the conclusion that the conversion isn’t actually necessary. I ended up swapping the two in and out in the light to confirm my observations......So, for those that are disappointed with having only the one lamp available for the M300, its not so bad after all....I for one will be ordering a few more of the WE M300 lamps as these are about perfect.


 
I'd love to see the M300 in your list of comparison beamshots to see what it can do. When I went to the link in your sig line it looks like the pics are not accessable. I would love a 3x18650 incan in this form factor. I think that the Eagle-3 has one of the best beams around, and I'm curious as to the quality of the M300 lamps. Can you do a beamshot comparison of the M300 lamp vs the 1185 in the M300?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 24, 2009)

*We need to see some damn beamshots!!!:nana:*


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## Phaserburn (Sep 24, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> *We need to see some damn beamshots!!!:nana:*



Yeah!!


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## Fulgeo (Sep 24, 2009)

cernobila said:


> Well, as you do, I have used a broken lamp (my fault) to do a conversion to use the popular 1185 bulb in the M300. Did similar things to the Eagle and M100 lamps in the past. This time, even though the conversion did work it was not very practical for technical reasons........HOWEVER, while trying out the 1185 in the M300 I noticed that the actual output of the 1185 was not much more than the original WE lamp. Tried it indoors, then outdoors and came to the conclusion that the conversion isn’t actually necessary. I ended up swapping the two in and out in the light to confirm my observations......So, for those that are disappointed with having only the one lamp available for the M300, its not so bad after all....I for one will be ordering a few more of the WE M300 lamps as these are about perfect.


 
Hey Cernobila,

I also have a WE M300 and I agree with you that it is a great light and is a very nice flashlight size wise. When I compare my M300 to my 3D Mag1185, the Mag1185 is much better. Even my 2D Mag1111 puts out noticeably more lumens. It could be that the reflector in the M300 mates up with the long stock M300 bulb better than the shorter AW 1185 and AW 1111 bulbs. I have not burned out my stock M300 bulb yet but I did have the same thought about the 1185. Perhaps a longer bulb would work better with the M300 reflector?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 24, 2009)

Fulgeo said:


> Hey Cernobila,
> 
> I also have a WE M300 and I agree with you that it is a great light and is a very nice flashlight size wise. When I compare my M300 to my 3D Mag1185, the Mag1185 is much better. Even my 2D Mag1111 puts out noticeably more lumens. It could be that the reflector in the M300 mates up with the long stock M300 bulb better than the shorter AW 1185 and AW 1111 bulbs. I have not burned out my stock M300 bulb yet but I did have the same thought about the 1185. Perhaps a longer bulb would work better with the M300 reflector?


If your WA1111 looks that much brighter than your M300, don't you think your lamp is faulty? Does anybody know how much current the Lion's lamp assembly is pulling?


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## cernobila (Sep 24, 2009)

......I will do some beamshots when I have time, catching up with everything since we came home from OS trip........The downside with the 1185 conversion is the fact that the reflector stays on only by two turns and the same for the tailcap, stays on by one and a half turns......not very practical at all. While doing the conversion I noticed that the original bulbs in the lamps are seated in soft white ruber/silicone type material making it shock proof I should imagine.....I am sure that the 1185 is brighter but the difference just didn't bowl me over if you know what I mean.


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## Fulgeo (Sep 25, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> If your WA1111 looks that much brighter than your M300, don't you think your lamp is faulty? Does anybody know how much current the Lion's lamp assembly is pulling?



Outdoors Fanatic,

The original M300 lamp I figure is about 2.0 amps. The specs on the M300 is 380 lumens and a 65 minute run time. I have tested this and I have gotten a good 60+ minutes run out of it before. It is powered by 3 x LRB168A Li-ion batters which are rated at 2200 mAH, so the math works out about right. I will have to test it's actual draw sometimes, but it is not as simple as measuring it at the tail cap trick because of the design of the M300. I approximate that my Mag1111 at 7.2-7.3 volts, puts out about 700-800 lumens and my Mag1185 at 10.8-10.9 volts puts out about 1100-1200 lumens. Now my Mag1111 draws about 3.8 amps at the tail cap at 7.2 volts. So now for the math. M300 11.1 volts x 2.0 amps = aprox 22.2 watts. Mag1111 7.2 volts x 3.8 amps = aprox 27.4 watts. So there is probably about a 5 watt difference between the two lights and it is very noticeable, especially at night when I go for my long walks. Too bad you do not live close to me so I could let you borrow the M300. Now that being said please note that the M300 has a very deep reflector. I think it does for the M300 what a FiveMega deep reflector does for WA lamps like the WA1111. Please note that I used a normal FiveMega MOP reflector on my Mag1111 and Mag1185 when I "tested" it against the M300.


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## LED61 (Sep 25, 2009)

The M300 is a GREAT light to be sure. I keep one at my lake house as standard equipment and it sees use just about every weekend for several tasks. It is bright as hell, has over one hour runtime, and rechargeable to boot. Good combination of flood and throw. I would not want it any other way than stock configuration.


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## Fulgeo (Sep 25, 2009)

Curiosity got the better of me. I fully charged my M300's batteries and pulled the lamp module out of the light so I could measured the draw of the M300's lamp. My meter reads a steady 1.94 amps.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 26, 2009)

Fulgeo said:


> Curiosity got the better of me. I fully charged my M300's batteries and pulled the lamp module out of the light so I could measured the draw of the M300's lamp. My meter reads a steady 1.94 amps.


Thanks for sharing! I'd like to see a 3.5A lamp for the M300.


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## cernobila (Sep 26, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Thanks for sharing! I'd like to see a 3.5A lamp for the M300.



Like the 1185, right? Actually, if you would keep the physical structure/design of the M300 lamp intact then the 1185 bulb could be "soldered-in" in place of the original bulb. (which is also a bi-pin) I don't have the equipment to attempt this but can see that it would work.......In other words, open the lamp unit without damaging any individual components, remove the original bulb, install the 1185 in its place, put the components together and you are ready to go.


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## 325addict (Sep 27, 2009)

I always liked the M300 as a part of the Wolf Eyes "system" that uses the same 3X 18650 battery-holder. The Boxer 24W HID and the all-new Pilot Whale 1,000 Lumen LED-light all share the same battery-holder. This is a well-thought of system, folks! Some manufacturers better look at this, it should be an example for how doing thing right :thumbsup:

The M300 seems to have a floody, "wall-of-light" style of output, which I like!
One day, I'll just HAVE to buy an M300, especially if it puts out such a lot of light at "only" 1.94 Amps.... it will last comfortably an hour, without draining AW 2600mAh batteries totally...

Timmo.


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## Dioni (Sep 27, 2009)

cernobila said:


> Like the 1185, right? Actually, if you would keep the physical structure/design of the M300 lamp intact then the 1185 bulb could be "soldered-in" in place of the original bulb. (which is also a bi-pin) I don't have the equipment to attempt this but can see that it would work.......In other words, open the lamp unit without damaging any individual components, remove the original bulb, install the 1185 in its place, put the components together and you are ready to go.


 
If not asking too much, could you post some shot of this Lamp Unit?
We need some shots!


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## cernobila (Sep 29, 2009)

Dioni said:


> If not asking too much, could you post some shot of this Lamp Unit?
> We need some shots!



Here goes;

The back of the new lamp and one I pulled appart.






And the front of the lamps.





As you can see, there is enough space to fit the WA1185 inside the unit but I do not have the gear to do this.


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## Dioni (Sep 30, 2009)

cernobila said:


> Here goes;
> 
> The back of the new lamp and one I pulled appart.
> 
> ...


 
Many thanks for shots! 

Fivemega could solve this for us!


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## Dioni (Sep 30, 2009)

Cernobila, please 800x800 pic size limit.


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## cernobila (Sep 30, 2009)

Dioni said:


> Cernobila, please 800x800 pic size limit.



Sorry, I was using Photobucket for the first time, thought that it resized automatically......I will resize them myself next time......my last hosting company was not very reliable.

AND, to add to the pictures.......you need a good solid soldering iron to melt the solder on this lamp. I removed it with a box cutter.


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## cernobila (Oct 1, 2009)

Just received information from WE on the voltage and amp rating of the M300 lamp.

Quote;

"The current of M300 lamp is 2A rating and actual voltage of M300 is around 12.6V."


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## Dioni (Oct 1, 2009)

It has a big chance of instaflash the WA1185.


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## cernobila (Oct 1, 2009)

Dioni said:


> It has a big chance of instaflash the WA1185.



I did use the 1185 via the fivemega bi-pin adaptor held in place inside the empty lamp module and had no problem, used it for about 30 minutes on and off before I put the light away. Not sure about the resistance level in this light.......


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 1, 2009)

cernobila said:


> I did use the 1185 via the fivemega bi-pin adaptor held in place inside the empty lamp module and had no problem, used it for about 30 minutes on and off before I put the light away. Not sure about the resistance level in this light.......


I think it would be a different story if you tried that with AW 2600 mAh li-ion or IMRs. (not to mention if your Lion had a resistance fix...). I suspect those Wolf-eyes batteries are not being too hard on that WA1185, they probably sag more than AWs. Just a guess, though


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## cernobila (Oct 1, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I think it would be a different story if you tried that with AW 2600 mAh li-ion or IMRs. (not to mention if your Lion had a resistance fix...). I suspect those Wolf-eyes batteries are not being too hard on that WA1185, they probably sag more than AWs. Just a guess, though



......I am using the AW 2600 mAh cells.......  and the Lion is stock standard.....


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 1, 2009)

cernobila said:


> ......I am using the AW 2600 mAh cells.......  and the Lion is stock standard.....


Oops... I thought you were using the stock battery kit from Wolf-Eyes... So as you said, the electrical resistance is what is probably preventing instaflash. There must be a lot of resistance residing in that battery holder and in the reserve click switch. Or perhaps you got lucky, 'cause you have a really tough WA1185, LOL!


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## cernobila (Oct 1, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Oops... I thought you were using the stock battery kit from Wolf-Eyes... So as you said, the electrical resistance is what is probably preventing instaflash. There must be a lot of resistance residing in that battery holder and in the reserve click switch. Or perhaps you got lucky, 'cause you have a really tough WA1185, LOL!



Something like that.......I think there is enough resistance in the design of the whole thing that has prevented any problems so far.....all for the better.


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## cernobila (Oct 2, 2009)

The only other way that the M300 could be made more versatile is by someone like "fivemega" making a unit similar to his G4 D26 with a thread on the outside to screw into the M300 body. The principal is the same but of course the demand is not there, so end of story.....pity though.


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## Dioni (Oct 2, 2009)

cernobila said:


> I did use the 1185 via the fivemega bi-pin adaptor held in place inside the empty lamp module and had no problem, used it for about 30 minutes on and off before I put the light away. Not sure about the resistance level in this light.......


 
Which FM bi-pin adapter did you use to? Surefire MN series?
Was the adjustament of focus working even with FM?


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## Dioni (Oct 2, 2009)

cernobila said:


> The only other way that the M300 could be made more versatile is by someone like "fivemega" making a unit similar to his G4 D26 with a thread on the outside to screw into the M300 body. The principal is the same but of course the demand is not there, so end of story.....pity though.


 
Exactly, 'cause the WE also lives on the sale of bulbs. Although, if they make it themselves, could have a better sale of the M300.


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## cernobila (Oct 2, 2009)

Dioni said:


> Which FM bi-pin adapter did you use to? Surefire MN series?
> Was the adjustament of focus working even with FM?



I used the standard bi-pin adaptor for the Maglite. The focus did work but the reflector/bezel hung on only by two threads and the tailcap also had to be screwed out, so the whole thing was not very secure....but worked.


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## cernobila (Oct 2, 2009)

Dioni said:


> Exactly, 'cause the WE also lives on the sale of bulbs. Although, if they make it themselves, could have a better sale of the M300.



Imagine, supply a 18650 dummy cell and you could run two cell bi-pin bulbs as well.......ah well.....


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