# Black Diamond Spot or Icon?



## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

Hi,

I have narrowed down to these 2 lights. Is the Icon much better for about $10 more?

I know that the spot is cheaper, but is the icon worth 10 more than the spot if i camp maybe once a month max and will use it then?

Will both be good for reading up close and for a general camping and hiking headlamp?

I am looking to get it ASAP.


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## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

Well I just bought the Icon for $32 shipped. Hope that is a great price.


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## WDR65 (Sep 8, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I had a long reply typed but I had to leave my computer and when I posted I see that you have already replied, ooops. That is a good price and although I don't own an Icon, I do like the Black Diamond products that I do have. Let us know what you think when you get it.


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## arizona1 (Sep 8, 2011)

Good choice, i think you would have hatted the BD spot, the beam is horrible. it has a huge hollow hotspot. This can be fixed with tape, but even then i dont like it. Good choice on icon.


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 8, 2011)

i would have told you to avoid them both, but at $32 for the Icon, why not. that's a great price for that lamp. 

was it EMS clearance and Price Runner?


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## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

I am glad I didn't get the Black Diamond spot then, if it has the yellow ring issues. 

Yah EMS. 

Is the icon a good lamp? I should have avoided them both? Is the icon really bad? I read that it did get a backpacker award. Should I have gotten the princeton tec eos or quad for $30 instead?


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## arizona1 (Sep 8, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> Is the icon a good lamp? I should have avoided them both? Is the icon really bad? I read that it did get a backpacker award. Should I have gotten the princeton tec eos or quad for $30 instead?



I would have gone with the eos. it has a great beam, its regulated and waterproof.


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## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

I contacted Black diamond and they said that the Icon is regulated. 

I also wanted something with spill and i understand the EOS is mainly throw if you do not mod it. right? ANy other opinions on the icon?


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 8, 2011)

i think you're better off with a Eos if you can find one for less than $32. but the Icon isn't bad or anything.

IIRC, on the Icon, the modes aren't spaced far apart enough, and the 4 5mm LEd's are very blue. and the output is kind of low compared to the overall bulk of the package. plus the Icon isn't waterproof. i'd say that it's barely even water resistant. but if you don't care too much about these things, the Icon is fine, especially for the price you paid.

i should add that unlike some other Black Diamond headlamps, the Icon generally has gotten good user reviews on places like REI, EMS, Backcountry, Amazon, etc.

you can compare beamshots of the two at Szemhazai's site here.


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## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

Seems like many other sites like rei.com love the black diamond icon headlamp...

Is the EOS that much better? Less modes on the EOS seem not as good since i would love a light to have flood on it as well.


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 8, 2011)

after having said that the Icon has gotten good reviews on REI, EMS, Backcountry, Amazon, etc., i should also say that some of those reviews have to be taken with a certain grain of salt. several of those reviews say things along the lines of "wow, this thing is so much brighter than my original Petzl Tikka" or "i'm happy the bulb still hasn't burned out like they did on my Petzl Zoom" or "this is so much better than my old Mini Mag". so, you know.


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## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

yah true that. But isnt the black diamond icon the best money can buy for $32 for a headlamp? I really wanted something that is good around camp so the 4 leds will help vs the EOS


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 8, 2011)

is it the best $32 can buy... that's a good question. i'm not sure that there's a good answer. 

the things i like the least about the Icon are the bulk, lack of water resistance, and the color of the 5mm leds. if these things don't bother you, then you might be perfectly happy with the Icon. and even if you try it and realize you don't like it, the price is so good that you might be able to eBay it and come close to breaking even.

Edit* one thing i recommend you do once you get your Icon is to get some DC Fix from the Marketplace and apply it to the front of the lens. the lenses on these older BD headlamps kind of stick out and are very easily scratched. the way the case is designed, there is zero protection for the lens. the DC Fix will provide diffusion and an extra layer of scratch protection. there are a couple guys selling small sheets of DC Fix in the Marketplace. 

Edit 2* i totally forgot! these older BD headlamps (~2006-2009) used low frequency PWM on the lower output levels. i don't know if the one you got still has the same circuits as the older models, but if it does, and if you're sensitive to PWM flicker, then you might have a problem with the Icon. this is not an issue for most people, so it may not be an issue for you.


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## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> is it the best $32 can buy... that's a good question. i'm not sure that there's a good answer.
> 
> the things i like the least about the Icon are the bulk, lack of water resistance, and the color of the 5mm leds. if these things don't bother you, then you might be perfectly happy with the Icon. and even if you try it and realize you don't like it, the price is so good that you might be able to eBay it and come close to breaking even.
> 
> ...



Thanks a bunch for your help! How do i know if i got the 2006-2009 version vs the new one? Do the newer ones not stick out?

The black diamond website says that the icon is ipx 4...isnt that better than 2 of the EOS? 

I dont think the color of the leds will bother me. Isnt the icon like a mix between the princeton tec quad and the eos since i can use it for throw and for near the campsite with the smaller Leds? My problem with the EOS is that it isnt that good around camp i heard.


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 8, 2011)

Chances are that the Icon you got is still the same internally as the one they've been selling since 2007. I think the emitter was upgraded in 2008, but I think it's unchanged since then. I think the front lens design is the same for every version of the Icon.

The Eos is IPX7, it's fairly well sealed, and is reliably dunkable. I dunk mine all the time to wash them. The Icon, I've seen one disassembled, and it is totally not sealed. I don't think it'd survive a heavy rain storm. 

the Eos's narrow beam is indeed a limiting issue, but it can be improved by sticking DC Fix on the front of the lens.

$30 is kind of a tricky range for headlamps. i recommended the Eos in one of my earlier posts, but i have to add that as solid as they have been in the past the Eos isn't quite what it used to be. The quality control on the newer Eos's i've seen haven't been that great. The last 70 lumen version that I bought kind of sucked and had to be RMA'd right out of the package. 

just about every $30 headlamp you can get is going to have some issues.


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## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> Chances are that the Icon you got is still the same internally as the one they've been selling since 2007. I think the emitter was upgraded in 2008, but I think it's unchanged since then. I think the front lens design is the same for every version of the Icon.
> 
> The Eos is IPX7, it's fairly well sealed, and is reliably dunkable. I dunk mine all the time to wash them. The Icon, I've seen one disassembled, and it is totally not sealed. I don't think it'd survive a heavy rain storm.
> 
> ...



Thanks man! SO the new EOS's have some issues eh? I heard that it tends to fall foward if you bob your head as well. Maybe for anything less than $30 the Icon would be the best. The Icon should have a lot more spill as well in the right mode than the EOS right?

Is there a way to tell if i got the new icon?


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 8, 2011)

i haven't had any problems with the Eos bobbing forward. i think the newer ones are actually less prone to that than the older versions. the problems i'm talking about are things like the emitter not being centered and the switch sometimes not working. PT still has the good warranty and they'll fix/replace it for you. 

regarding the spill on the Icon main beam, i don't know how useful that'll be close up. the hotspot is pretty prominent and for close use it'll washout the spill anyway. i would think that for close use, you'll mostly be using the 5mm LEDs.

i don't know that there is a "new" Icon. as far as I know, the Icon has been the same since 2007 except for an emitter upgrade in 2008. i haven't looked at any Icon's made after 2009, so that's why i added the caveat that "i don't know if the one you got still has the same circuits as the older models". as far as i know, these things could have a quantum generator inside them or something now. i don't know. i know they look the same as what they were selling back in 2009 and the specs look the same, but since i haven't held a post-2009 Icon in my hands, i can't say for sure that they are the same.


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## rydude07 (Sep 8, 2011)

Well i checked altrec and many other sites and they praised the icon. I hope its as good as they say. Seems like the people here on candlepowefourms dont like the icon and would get the EOS as the best headlamp.

Is the EOS brighter than the icon?


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 8, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> Well i checked altrec and many other sites and they praised the icon. I hope its as good as they say. Seems like the people here on candlepowefourms dont like the icon and would get the EOS as the best headlamp.


 
"best"? i don't think anyone on CPF would say that the Eos is the best. maybe in 2009, not in 2011.

like i said before, there are some known issues with the Icon. if those issues don't bother you, then you should like it fine.

as for which one is brighter, click on the link i gave you in one of the above posts and see for yourself. the beam profiles are different so me telling you which one is brighter won't really tell you much.


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## gcbryan (Sep 9, 2011)

I think the Icon is probably a good deal at the price you paid for it. It's hard to compare headlamps without talking about what you will use it for and what your personal preferences are.

For instance the EOS is nice but a little larger than some other units. However everything is included in that unit (batteries). The Icon requires wires and a rear battery pack. Which is better in that regard depends on personal preferences.

The EOS has 3 levels but the low isn't as low as some would like.

The Spot has much lower lows for instance and although the beam is less than perfect and most people use some diffusion most/many people do the same for the EOS to widen the beam so one is not better than the other in that regard.

The Spot has a secondary flood mode but it's not very bright. The Spot toggles between the main beam and flood beam every time you turn the unit on. The Icon allows you to chose.

If you don't mind the rear mounted battery pack you probably will be happy with your choice among those two or three units that have been mentioned considering the price.


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## d1337 (Sep 9, 2011)

I have been a huge fan of the EOS for a long time. It has has had the same basic design for 7 or 8 years but Princeton-Tec has done a great job of upgrading the LED's over the years. The current model has 70 lumens. Part of what makes it difficult to compae is that it has been around for so long that some of the reviews or reviewers might be looking at the older model. For example my first EOS from 7 years ago was 25 lumens and had a very narrow beam. My most recent one is 70 lumens and has a nice mix between spot and flood. To add to the confusion some of the older models are still on store shelves. On the bright side the new models are clearly marked with the higher lumen rating.

All of this being said I just got the Black Diamond Storm and I really like it. It is however in a different price range. Usually 49.99 or 39.99 on sale. In my opinion it is far better to the other Black Diamond headlamps I have used and a little better than my newest EOS.

Here is a review of the Storm: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Diamond-Storm-review-gt-Waterproof-100-lumens

Hope this helps.


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## rydude07 (Sep 9, 2011)

d1337 said:


> I have been a huge fan of the EOS for a long time. It has has had the same basic design for 7 or 8 years but Princeton-Tec has done a great job of upgrading the LED's over the years. The current model has 70 lumens. Part of what makes it difficult to compae is that it has been around for so long that some of the reviews or reviewers might be looking at the older model. For example my first EOS from 7 years ago was 25 lumens and had a very narrow beam. My most recent one is 70 lumens and has a nice mix between spot and flood. To add to the confusion some of the older models are still on store shelves. On the bright side the new models are clearly marked with the higher lumen rating.
> 
> All of this being said I just got the Black Diamond Storm and I really like it. It is however in a different price range. Usually 49.99 or 39.99 on sale. In my opinion it is far better to the other Black Diamond headlamps I have used and a little better than my newest EOS.
> 
> ...



Ic ic. Seems like the storm got good reviews. The icon is supposed to be Black diamonds most expensive headlamp so i hope its better than the storm as well.

what is so bad abuot having the batteries at the back of the head?


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## WDR65 (Sep 9, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> Ic ic. Seems like the storm got good reviews. The icon is supposed to be Black diamonds most expensive headlamp so i hope its better than the storm as well.
> 
> what is so bad abuot having the batteries at the back of the head?



Nothing in my opinion unless you are laying down or leaning back reading where it might get a bit uncomfortable. The Princeton Tec Apex is still my favorite headlamp overall and its battery pack is in the back. 

I was going to recommend the Storm to you also in an earlier post, its my favorite Black Diamond so far and I own two generations of the Spot to compare it to.


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## rydude07 (Sep 9, 2011)

Does the storm compare better than the icon if both are the same price?


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 9, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> Ic ic. Seems like the storm got good reviews. The icon is supposed to be Black diamonds most expensive headlamp so i hope its better than the storm as well.



that reasoning doesn't apply in this situation. the Storm is a brand new headlamp that was released earlier this year. it does 100 lumens max, uses newer SMLED's for the floods, uses continuous ramping for brightness control, it's waterproof. the lowest i've seen it anywhere since release is $40 (at a couple places right now, including L.L. Bean)

the Icon was first released in 2007, does 100 lumens max and has the aforementioned issues. other than the fact that the Icon probably runs longer than the Storm due to the larger battery capacity and might be more comfortable to wear due to the better front/rear balance, i would say that the Storm is better in every respect.



rydude07 said:


> Does the storm compare better than the icon if both are the same price?


 
i think so.



rydude07 said:


> what is so bad abuot having the batteries at the back of the head?



it's a matter of preference. i've used both setups and after awhile i just liked not having to deal with a wire or having something on the back of my head. front only headlamps are easier to put on and take off, they pack easier, you can lie down while wearing one, they're easier to use as a handheld flashlight. if i don't need the extra battery capacity of 3XAA, i pick up a front only headlamp every single time.

btw, what are you going to use the lamp for? are you going to use it for night hiking or is it just for around camp?


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## rydude07 (Sep 9, 2011)

robostudent5000 said:


> that reasoning doesn't apply in this situation. the Storm is a brand new headlamp that was released earlier this year. it does 100 lumens max, uses newer SMLED's for the floods, uses continuous ramping for brightness control, it's waterproof. the lowest i've seen it anywhere since release is $40 (at a couple places right now, including L.L. Bean)
> 
> the Icon was first released in 2007, does 100 lumens max and has the aforementioned issues. other than the fact that the Icon probably runs longer than the Storm due to the larger battery capacity and might be more comfortable to wear due to the better front/rear balance, i would say that the Storm is better in every respect.
> 
> ...



thanks for your help!

I will use it mainly when it gets dark around camp and in my tent and trips to the bathroom etc. I don't suspect i will be night hiking much, but I would want to start getting into that. So maybe for some occasional night hikes and maybe some night caving. Nothing too intense though.

Maybe i should just sell it when I receive it and buy something else. Seems like there are better lights out there according to this forum.


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 9, 2011)

can't you just return it? EMS has really good customer service. and if you used Price Runner, the return shipping should be free.

Edit* you mentioned you already have a Quark and a LD20. i'm assuming you have Eneloops... if you want something floody, why don't you just save up a little and get a Zebra H51F? you'll probably be a lot happier with it than something you can get in the $30-40 range.


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## rydude07 (Sep 9, 2011)

OH i may just sell it instead of returning it since it is a bit of a hassle to

The zebra is pretty expensive...i wanted to stay around 30 at the max.

You think for $30, there is a better all around headlamp than the black diamond icon?


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 9, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> You think for $30, there is a better all around headlamp than the black diamond icon?


 
as i've said before, $30 is a tricky range for headlamps. just about all the lamps you can get in that range have some short comings and it's up to the individual user to figure out what compromises they're okay living with.


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## gcbryan (Sep 9, 2011)

Headlamps are one of those things that you tend to spend more on eventually to get what's best for you since it's something strapped to your head it can be a bit annoying if it's not just what you want.

I have the EOS (70 lumen model), had the newest Spot and have the Storm as well as the Zebralight H51f. The H51f is mainly what I use now. Compared to all the others it is just so easy to use and so small.

I throw it in my pocket on occasions where I wouldn't have bothered with a larger headlamp. I don't even own any headlamps with the battery pack at the back. Those are really bulky.

The Storm is very nice and I still use it sometimes but if I had to have just one headlamp it would definitely be the H51f...the (f) for floody is the key thing in that statement for me.

If you don't get the H51f then getting the Storm for $40 (I paid $49) is the best second choice IMO.


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## rydude07 (Sep 9, 2011)

Maybe i should not even open my icon and sell it then. 

Seems like it has a bad rap on here


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## gcbryan (Sep 9, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> Maybe i should not even open my icon and sell it then.
> 
> Seems like it has a bad rap on here


 
I'd either send it back or keep it and try it out and use as a backup if necessary. If you sell it you will have to do so for less than you paid for it and then there will be shipping. At that point...what's the point? You got a good deal on it. Maybe you will like it.

Otherwise, keep it in your glove compartment for emergencies and buy something that you do like.

You probably need to think a little more about what you do like. You don't seem to be sure at the moment. Just because we don't like a rear battery pack doesn't mean that you won't like it. 

It's a decent light.


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 9, 2011)

i concur wth gcb


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## rydude07 (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks a lot for your help guys!

So this would be my first headlamp so I really don't know what I would like. 

I want to use something when the electricity goes out and around camp when I go camping. So those are the uses I would be using it. I do have a quark 2aa and fenix ld20 so i have lights that can throw if I need it to. I wouldnt mind using the headlampm to go night hiking either but thats not as important as around a camp site. So i don't know what a good headlamp would be for me. Seems like everyoe likes the EOS, so maybe that one?


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## JacobJones (Sep 10, 2011)

For about 30 dollars you could have an ITP HO1. in my opinion this is one of the best cheap headlights, only downside I can see is that it's not as floody as some people might like. 1 AAA battery, usefull well spaced modes, water resistant (don't know what ipx but it looks like it could survive a dunking), aluminium construction, single Cree XP-E with a really nice tint. if you wanted it floodier you can just stick some diffusion material over the lense


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 10, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> So this would be my first headlamp so I really don't know what I would like.
> 
> I want to use something when the electricity goes out and around camp when I go camping. So those are the uses I would be using it. I do have a quark 2aa and fenix ld20 so i have lights that can throw if I need it to. I wouldnt mind using the headlampm to go night hiking either but thats not as important as around a camp site. So i don't know what a good headlamp would be for me.


 
based on what you wrote just above, i think you should return the Icon and get a Petzl Tikka 2. for your first headlamp and for your intended use, i think it's the best headlamp for you.

CPF member carrot wrote a good review of it here.


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## rydude07 (Sep 10, 2011)

That better than the petzl tikka 2 plus and the xp?


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 10, 2011)

lol... i'll quote my above post. "for your first headlamp and for your intended use, i think it's the best headlamp for you."

i don't recommend the Tikka Plus 2 because it's even throwier than the Eos and that's not what you need. you need flood.
i don't recommend the Tikka XP 2 because it's out of your price range. if you're gonna spend that much, you might as well buy a Zebralight.

and in case you were curious:

i don't recommend the PT Eos because it isn't good for close use. you have to mod it to make it okay for close use, but why do that when you can pay less for something you don't have to mod. plus it's kind of heavy.
i don't recommend the PT Quad, which is similar to the Tikka 2, because it's heavy and i think the Tikka 2 is better built.

i don't recommend the BD Storm because it sounds like you won't need all the additional functionality that it offers. why pay more to get features that you won't use? plus it's heavy.
i don't recommend the BD Spot because the flood lamps on it are nowhere near bright enough for your use. plus i don't think its body is made very well.
i don't recommend the BD Icon because it's needlessly bulky. i don't think you'll need the runtimes that the additional battery capacity offers. i think the bulk will bother you after a while. 

the best pure flood headlamp available right now probably is the Zebra H501w. in a few months, the best one available should be the Zebra H502w. 
the best semi-flood headlamp available right now probably is a toss up between the Zebra H51Fw and the Spark STx-xxxNW lamps. 
however, the Zebras and Sparks are kind of expensive, and i would not recommend them to someone buying a headlamp for the first time unless they were sure that they were what they wanted and were going to use them a lot.

since you don't really know what you want, since it seems like your uses will mainly require flood, since you prefer to spend <$30, since it seems like you won't be using your headlamp that much, and since it's nice to have a well made lamp no matter the price or frequency of use, i think the best lamp for you is the Tikka 2.


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## carrot (Sep 10, 2011)

TBH I actually prefer the Tikka2 over the more expensive Tikka XP2. Yes, the XP2 has a diffuser and a red LED, both of which I find extremely handy. But the Tikka2 is lighter, smaller, and has a really well-balanced beam for both close-up and medium ranges, and is quite a bit more water-resistant than its rating implies. With the XP2 I often wish I had more flood when the diffuser is off and more throw when the diffuser is on. I do wish the Tikka2 came with a red LED, which would make it pretty darn near ideal, but FWIW this is the first headlamp I grab when I pack for the trail.


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## rydude07 (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks a lot for your help! That was a great post robostudent, and very thorough!! Much appreciated! And thanks carrot for your opinion!

I may pick up the petzl then! I was considering the petzl tikka 2 vs the princeton tec quad, and you answered my qustion that you think the petzl tikka 2 is better made!! Thanks!! Now i just have to get rid of the BD icon somehow. 

Whats a good price for the tikka2? $24?


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## gcbryan (Sep 10, 2011)

Yes. That would be a good price.


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## rydude07 (Sep 10, 2011)

Thanks guys! so all of you think that the tikka 2 is better than the pt quad?
And it seems that the petzl tikka 2 isnt regulated...which kind of turns me off. I contacted BD and they said that the icon is regulated. I know that the eos and quad are supposed to be regulated too.


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 10, 2011)

i wouldn't get caught up on regulation. regulation only really makes a difference if you have a lamp that requires a lot of current and you plan on running it at a high brightness level for a long time. i don't think either of those really apply to your situation, so for your use, it won't really matter. for you, it would just be additional cost and weight for a feature you don't really need.


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## carrot (Sep 10, 2011)

I do think that the PT Quad is a good headlamp. I do not think it is a good competitor to the Petzl Tikka 2, however. It is noticeably heavier and a good deal less svelte. 

The Quad has 3 output levels, which is impressive on paper, but in real life use the difference between the three isn't big enough for me to care which I'm using. The Tikka2's secondary output level is always a fraction of the high output, so is always useful. The button is less stiff than on the Tikka2, which means I've seen it accidentally activate.

Biggest reason you'd pick the Quad over the Tikka2 is if you are going to be submersing it a lot and need that waterproof rating. It is rated waterproof to 1M, which is better than the Tikka2's rating of "splash proof" (IPX4). Both have withstood my water intrusion tests (leaving them in the shower for half an hour) as well as being dunked in my sink, however.

As to regulation... in a light designed to run as long as a traditional headlamp... not the least bit of concern. When I am wearing a headlamp, the output matters not as much as the fact that I'm getting light out of it. Your eyes will adjust to the (very slowly) diminishing output.


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## rydude07 (Sep 11, 2011)

Seems like the consensus is the petzl tikka 2 over the EOS, quad, tikka 2 plus, and XP. What i like about the quad is that it shows when the battery is getting low which can be nice. But, I dont need the extra waterproofness of the quad. Seems like I will go for the petzl tikka 2 after i somehow get rid of my icon...


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## gcbryan (Sep 11, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> Seems like the consensus is the petzl tikka 2 over the EOS, quad, tikka 2 plus, and XP. What i like about the quad is that it shows when the battery is getting low which can be nice. But, I dont need the extra waterproofness of the quad. Seems like I will go for the petzl tikka 2 after i somehow get rid of my icon...



With lights that aren't regulated the need for a battery strength indicator is less. It just keeps getting dimmer until you decide to change the battery. In other words it doesn't just suddenly stop working.

You can get most anything you want feature-wise you just generally have to pay more than $30.


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## rydude07 (Sep 12, 2011)

I may pick up an EOS as well since its such a good headlamp and good for spelunking too (better than ICON i assume). What's a good price on an EOS? If i wait longer, would a better EOS come out you think with more lumens?


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## gcbryan (Sep 12, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> I may pick up an EOS as well since its such a good headlamp and good for spelunking too (better than ICON i assume). What's a good price on an EOS? If i wait longer, would a better EOS come out you think with more lumens?


 
Get the 70 lumen EOS. I don't see any more coming out anytime soon (if ever). You should be able to get it for $35 shipped if you look around. I got it at that price. Start with Amazon and then click on the feature that shows all the sellers that sell through Amazon and make sure you look for the lowest combined price (price + shipping).

The only reason they are selling for $30 is that they have been out for a while. When they were new they were typically selling for $45 or so plus shipping.


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## rydude07 (Sep 13, 2011)

gcbryan said:


> Get the 70 lumen EOS. I don't see any more coming out anytime soon (if ever). You should be able to get it for $35 shipped if you look around. I got it at that price. Start with Amazon and then click on the feature that shows all the sellers that sell through Amazon and make sure you look for the lowest combined price (price + shipping).
> 
> The only reason they are selling for $30 is that they have been out for a while. When they were new they were typically selling for $45 or so plus shipping.


 
You don't see one coming out with like 100 lumens or something like that in the future?


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## gcbryan (Sep 13, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> You don't see one coming out with like 100 lumens or something like that in the future?



My point is , who knows? I'm not sure the EOS line will even be continued. I'm sure PT will continue to make headlamps in the future and some will have increased output but the EOS has been out as is for a few years and I've heard nothing about any new version about to come out.

It wouldn't make much difference anyway...70 lumens or 100 lumens...you wouldn't notice a big difference. If they did come out with one it would probably cost close to $50 and then there would probably be better choices at that price.

They could also redesign it and make it less desirable as Petzl did (in some people's eyes) when they "improved" the XP with the XP2. No one knows the answers to these questions in advance.


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## rydude07 (Sep 13, 2011)

Sounds good! Thanks man!

now just gotta get rid of the icon somehow


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## carrot (Sep 13, 2011)

The EOS is one of PT's best designs. I saw a disassembly thread here and it was very clear that it was designed to easily adapt to the ever-changing LED supply market. The output is regulated, which is not terribly important for most headlamp users, but definitely icing on the cake, and it is both rugged and water resistant. It seems to be a favorite among cavers due its water resistance as a backup headlamp to less rugged or less reliable primary headlamps. It would be incredibly dumb of PT to discontinue it; hopefully they have enough sense to realize that the EOS way outdoes their more "current" models.

But I digress. For most of my uses the floodier and lighter Tikka2 seems preferable.


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## rydude07 (Sep 13, 2011)

Wow you guys are awesome in responding! 

So i found out that I can return the Icon. 

Seems like I will be getting the PT EOS or the petzl tikka 2. These are much better lights than the same priced Icon eh? It just seems weird that so many other sites, if not all except CPF love the Icon (those reviewers may not be flashaholics like you guys) I will also be using the headlamp without a hat so i heard that the ICON may not be as comfortable as well. The 100 lumen output and the so many modes impress me lol.


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 13, 2011)

dude, unless you really need to have two headlamps, instead of getting a Tikka 2 ($30) and a Eos ($30) why don't you just get one Zebralight ($64)?

oh wait, i read your previous post wrong. you're thinking about a Eos OR a Tikka 2, correct? 

you know, if you do plan on doing some caving in the future and want a lamp with a lot of features, maybe you should get the Storm. 

when i recommended the Eos, i kind of assumed you'd be using it for camping and night hiking.
when i recommended the Tikka 2, i thought you'd be using it around the house mostly and in a campsite a little bit.

if you plan on using your lamp around the house, at a campsite, and for occasional caving, that covers a wider range of uses. so at that point, the BD Storm might be the better choice for you. that way you get the option of a spot beam and a floody beam all in one package instead of being stuck with just one or the other. the Tikka 2 doesn't throw very far and its battery compartment isn't sealed, and the Eos isn't great for close use, the Storm can kind of give you the best of both and is only slightly heavier than the Eos. i should mention though that the Eos and the Storm are pretty heavy for one piece headlamps and push the boundary of what's comfortable to wear. if you plan on wearing your lamps for a long time and are concerned with comfort, that might be something to consider.

i think the L.L. Bean deal is over, but i think i saw the Storm at a couple other places for $40. i think Amazon has it for $42 but their prices are always fluctuating so i don't know how long that will last. (Amazon has the Eos for $28 right now, but i don't expect that to last long either.)

i'll say it again about the Icon. it's not a bad light, it's just really bulky. if you don't mind the extra bulk (or the PWM flicker), i think it's fine. but then again, if you plan on doing some caving, you should have a lamp that's waterproof. and since the Icon isn't waterproof at all, that's another reason to avoid it.


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## rydude07 (Sep 13, 2011)

Thanks for such an informative post!

Yah I guess the Icon is a lot builkier than either the EOS and the storm and the Tikka2. The Icon, just like the storm both has a flood mode and spot mode right?

I may go for the EOS on sale on amazon. I may be able to make due with the lack of spill since the price is so good


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## rydude07 (Sep 14, 2011)

What's the best cheapest light that has the throw of a EOS (maybe not that much) and the flood of a petzl tikka 2? (something like the BD icon that has 2 types of modes?) Just in case i want to not only use it around camp but hike as well

The throw of the BD Icon is same as the PT EOS?


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## carrot (Sep 14, 2011)

I would hike with the Tikka2 just fine. In fact, I have. I have also hiked and done camp chores with the EOS. You can't go wrong with either, really!

I think you'll find they have a surprising amount of overlap. The EOS is definitely on the throwy side but it has tons of sidespill. The Tikka2 is floody, but it has a decent bit of throw. Both have *very* well-balanced beams for a variety of uses and both have their advantages. Pick the one that sounds good to you right now, and try the other one later. Honestly, as someone who has both, I hate to have to choose which one to take hiking. For me it works well enough to pair a floody headlamp of my choice with a small thrower, but often enough the thrower stays in my pocket and is only used when I'm checking my bearings against trail markers or mini-landmarks. If you prefer to go with one headlamp and no flashlight, the EOS gets a slight edge, but is less optimal for reading and other close-up work.

Both the BD Storm and the Petzl Tikka XP2 offer the option of throw AND flood, however I can't stand the UI of the Storm although YMMV, and as mentioned earlier I actually prefer the balance of flood and throw better (on the Tikka2) than the option to pick between either on the XP2.


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 14, 2011)

the way you keep talking about the Icon, it sounds like you want to justify keeping it. if you want to keep it, just keep it.


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## gcbryan (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm here for the entertainment value at this point


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## rydude07 (Sep 14, 2011)

Haha thanks for your help guys. 

Yah the reason why i keep saying the Icon is because of REI and every other sites reviews. Seems like a light that is "too good to be true" sort of light according to the many non flashaholics on amazon, rei, backcountry etc


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## robostudent5000 (Sep 14, 2011)

rydude, check the dates on the Icon reviews. they go all the way back to 2007 which was when the lamp was first released. if you read them chronologically, you should notice that the reviews get less and less glowing as they get closer to today. and really, you should pretty much discard all the reviews from 2009 and earlier. because late 2009-mid 2010 was right around when all the current best headlamps were released. there was just a lot less to choose from back in 2009, so the Icon just looked good by default. 

one more thing to consider is that half the reviews on REI, Backcountry, etc. are posted within a few days of the reviewer purchasing the product. thus a lot of what you see are first impression reviews. such reviews don't tell you the whole story of how usable and durable the product really is.

a trick for getting useful info from retailer site user reviews is to sort the reviews from lowest rating to highest rating, then read all the bad reviews. check the dates of the bad reviews to see if they are recent, and then see if any complaints are common among the bad reviews. some reviewers are idiots and they'll ding a product because the seller had bad customer service - disregard those reviews. but if multiple reviewers all say that they had the same problem with the lamp, then that's probably a real issue on the lamp.

i used to have a Princeton Tec Apex. i loved it when i got it. i read nothing but good reviews about it. i did some more research on it after getting and started reading a few reviews here and there about the hinge being fragile and breaking easily. and of course, within three months of careful use, the hinge on my lamp broke. it pays to pay attention to the bad reviews.

Edit: which ever lamp you end up getting, i hope you end up being happy with it. but, at this point, i think you just have to pick one and get something. i don't think any amount of advise you get from here or anywhere is going to be enough to remove all chances of disappointment. more likely than not, even armed with the best research the web has to offer, your chances of getting it right on the first try are about 50/50 anyway. until you've actually used a headlamp for a while, you're just not really going to know what works for you. there's just no substitute for personal experience. so get something that looks good to you and just go from there.


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## rydude07 (Sep 14, 2011)

Yup checked the reviews. Thanks for helping a newbie out and being so patient.

Going to go for the EOS and possibly the Tikka 2 from all the great things I have been hearing about them from CPF.

Thanks!!


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## gcbryan (Sep 14, 2011)

Robo makes good points. The main problem with many reviews is that people are exciting about their new purchase and aren't very critical. It's the brightest light they've ever seen...but it's not the brightest light that I've ever seen 

Pick a product that you do know a lot about and go to any site and see if you agree with all the reviews. You probably won't because there are very few critical reviews.

I think the Storm is one of the best headlamps out there and yet my reviews of the Storm still point out all the negative aspects. When I see a review with no negative aspects I discount the review because all products have them.

Sometimes the perfect product is to own 2 or 3 different products


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## rydude07 (Sep 14, 2011)

Yup thanks again!

I read the review on CPF from szemhazel for the tikka 2 plus and he said that its not good for eyeglass wearers because the light comes out the side and causes glare. Also, i read that the Tikka 2 review by carrot said that there may be some glare...is that right? If thats the case, then i guess i have to go for the princeton tec quad or something. Do all petzl lights have a translucent body that will affect wearers who wear glasses?

Since i wear glasses that will be a huge determining factor for me.

Should I be worried to get it if i wear glasses?

Sorry for more questions.


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## gcbryan (Sep 15, 2011)

I don't wear glasses but I don't like headlamps with any glare either. You can push the headlamp up a bit more and that helps. Carrot doesn't find glare a problem with Petzl headlamps (I do however).

The Storm has minimal glare but it still has some due to the plastic body letting some light come out even though the body appears to be opaque with the light turned off.

The EOS definitely has no glare (nor do Zebralights).


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## rydude07 (Sep 15, 2011)

gcbryan said:


> I don't wear glasses but I don't like headlamps with any glare either. You can push the headlamp up a bit more and that helps. Carrot doesn't find glare a problem with Petzl headlamps (I do however).
> 
> The Storm has minimal glare but it still has some due to the plastic body letting some light come out even though the body appears to be opaque with the light turned off.
> 
> The EOS definitely has no glare (nor do Zebralights).


 Oh you have a glare problem with petzl headlamps? I may be more sensitive to it since I wear glasses. I guess the answer for me would be the EOS, quad or storm then.


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## gcbryan (Sep 15, 2011)

rydude07 said:


> Oh you have a glare problem with petzl headlamps? I may be more sensitive to it since I wear glasses. I guess the answer for me would be the EOS, quad or storm then.


 
If you get the Storm get the black one. The Storm is a no-brainer IMO if you get it at a good price. THe Zebralights are the only thing better. This is just my opinion however but I do own an EOS, Storm and Zebralight H51f (and H51) and did own the Spot.

I've gone hiking with the Petzl Tikka XP2 a couple of times aa well.

You aren't going to find a perfect headlamp however and if you end up using headlamps a lot you are probably going to buy several different ones to find the perfect one for you and for that particular use.


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## rydude07 (Sep 15, 2011)

I know im not going to find the perfect headlamp, but i just want to make sure that there is no glare or anything. So i guess the safest will be a zebra, or EOS or quad I am assuming.


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## jeffek (Sep 19, 2011)

I have the Black Diamond Spot and it is a fantastic headlamp. It is versatile and affordable.


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## carrot (Oct 1, 2011)

jeffek said:


> I have the Black Diamond Spot and it is a fantastic headlamp. It is versatile and affordable.


 
Ditto. I just picked one up and it is awesome. At $25 at REI for last year's model it's a no-brainer to check out.


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## jinya1004 (Oct 21, 2011)

there is a bit of housing light spill if you choose a light colored EOS.

also make sure you get the EOS with triple friction points. About 3 out of 10 have them, tis would decrease any potential bobbing you could get from activities such as running.

i have all the lights you are thinking about minus the zebra lights, and the one i usually grab is my PT Quad. its a great all round light except the tint is a bit blue f


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## FlashPilot (Oct 21, 2011)

Ive had great service through the years from my BD Icon. Last year, I modded it with a XP-G and external heat sink. It easily quadrupled the light output from when it was in stock form.


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