# SF 8AX or WE RAIDER 9D???



## pizzajoe62 (Aug 31, 2007)

hello,

i have been looking for an incan rechargeable light w/ a provision for a turbohead.
luv to hear from owners & your inputs.
i already own a PILA G3, very good light but no available turbo bezel except possibly the WE 9D bezel...does it give a significant added throw???
thanks.

joe


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## bones_708 (Aug 31, 2007)

I like th 8AX but you may want to look ar the stinger HP. Very good throw and easy to use.


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 1, 2007)

thanks bones...forgot about the stinger, should check it out.
i was hoping to hear more about the 8AX's output performance in the course of its runtime.
i wonder if the output remains constant(110 lumens) all thru out the 50 mins. runtime?
as for the 9D, output & runtime should be similar to my PILA G3. 
i wonder how much throw is added by the turbo bezel relative to the stock one though.
hope owners or those who have tried these lights can shed some light...LOL...pun intended.

joe


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## bones_708 (Sep 1, 2007)

Well on the 8NX the light is brighter for the first few min. then flattens out to the 110. The last 10 min or so if you watch you can see a little dimming (not bad but noticeable if you are looking).


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 1, 2007)

thanks again bones.
since i want a turbo head platform, i decided on the M3T instead w/ a couple of PILA 150s cells w/c i already have.
the 8AX + KT5 will come out to about the same price.
however, w/ the M3T, i have the option to use primaries.
i was planning on the leef body+KT4+Z58 route but surprisingly adds up to a few $$s more!!!

are there issues w/ M3T + 2 PILA 150s(17500) that i should be aware of?

thanks again...

joe


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## Size15's (Sep 1, 2007)

I have a KT5 for my 8NX - the beam is tight and very nice. However, it is not particularly bright compared to the higher output TurboHead models such as the M3T (MN16), M4 or M6. I also have a KT3 for one of my 9AN's and although the beam is obviously higher output, I'm not sure it's the same type of TurboHead beam - perhaps actually more useful as a result of the main beam being broader than a normal TurboHead.

Anyway, I would get an M3T rather than an 8NX+KT5. If I wanted a rechargeable TurboHead I would try out the 9AN+KT3 and 10X and select the most appropriate for my use and application.


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 1, 2007)

size 15s.

appreciate the added infos.
i have considered the 9AN but i have the PILA rechargeables already & is more economical to stick w/ it at the moment.
but your comment on the KT3's beam characteristics brings me to a dilemma...LOL.
actually i prefer the M4's beam over the M3T's but no viable rechargeable option.
is the KT3's beam similar to that of the M4's?
am i correct in assuming that the KT3 throws farther than the KT4 w/ MN15?
BTW, the 10X would have been best but don't have the $$$ to burn it with...LOL.
thanks.

joe


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## Size15's (Sep 1, 2007)

pizzajoe62 said:


> am i correct in assuming that the KT3 throws farther than the KT4 w/ MN15?


Joe, I have various M3T's but only one KT3 (although I have tried it with three N3 Lamp Assemblies). Based on this I do not consider the KT3 to be a "thrower" in the traditional TurboHead sense. It's more like a two-fisted punch compared to a stab.
It's worth noting that I do not see much (nothing significant) difference in range between many flashlights that others do. Perhaps mine eyes are not as good. I wear corrective optics and have quite poor 'night vision'.


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 1, 2007)

Size 15s...

i find it quite difficult to visualize a 2 fisted punch as oppose to a stab in terms of beam output but i guess stab would refer to a sharper projection???
anyway, in the hope for a more definitive answer, lemme ask you this...since you admitedly have poor night vision, w/c turbo set-up w/ standard bulbs gives you the most confidence at night?
hope you don't mind engaging me here a while longer...thanks.

joe


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## Size15's (Sep 1, 2007)

Most TurboHead beams are very different compared to the standard bezel beam - P60 vs N2, X80 vs N5, M3 vs M3T (far tighter, smaller, more intense central beam, far less bright surround beam)
However, the KT3 beam is more like a more-powerful version of the 9AN rather than a whole different beam. The beam is still quite broad and the surround beam is still quite bright.

If size/bulk/weight is a factor then I use the M3T w/MN16 lamp.

Mostly I use one of my M6's - usually with MN20 lamp.

If I'm needing a lot of runtime and my vehicle or other suitable powersupply is nearby then I'll use a 10X with a spare 10X on charge.

Al


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 1, 2007)

by standard i meant LOLAs. 
but i have a pretty good idea as to their respective beam characteristics now...i think???
i just want a pretty good thrower w/ LOLA bulbs...
if the KT3 can throw similarly to a KT4 w/ MN15, thats good enough for me.
a broader beam will be a bonus.
appreciate the inputs, thanks.

joe


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## FlashKat (Sep 1, 2007)

This the the Wolf Eyes Turbo bezel you should consider
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-20-41-6120
Also you can get the option of the M90 Bezel to use D36 Lumens Factory Lamps or Wolf Eyes Cree.
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=6173
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/category.aspx?uid=76-78


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 2, 2007)

flashkat thanks...the rattlesnake does look like a very attractive alternative, a better "bang for the buck" thing.
but there was a thread here by DICEMAN w/c had beamshots of this light.
comparing the WE 9 raider & the rattlesnake showed not much advantage especially in the outdoor shots.
i want something with a more significant difference from my PILA G3 w/c is very similar to WE's 9 raider.
i am almost tempted by the boxer but due to the HID nature, it takes a few secs to get to full power.
any suggestions for a light that would have a similar performance to the SF M4?
thanks.

joe


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## FlashKat (Sep 2, 2007)

Hi Joe,

How far do you want it to throw?
Are you looking for brightness?
How long do you run the flashlight each time? (It's recommended to run the lamp for 10 minutes at a time for the Lumens Factory EO-13)
You may consider this set-up for brightness:
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=76-78-86-6265
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-20-40-87-6185
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-20-40-87-6267
It is more expensive, but you will be running with rechargeable batteries which will save alot of money.


pizzajoe62 said:


> flashkat thanks...the rattlesnake does look like a very attractive alternative, a better "bang for the buck" thing.
> but there was a thread here by DICEMAN w/c had beamshots of this light.
> comparing the WE 9 raider & the rattlesnake showed not much advantage especially in the outdoor shots.
> i want something with a more significant difference from my PILA G3 w/c is very similar to WE's 9 raider.
> ...


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## cernobila (Sep 2, 2007)

If you want to compare the EO-13 to other LF lamps such as the EO-9 and HO-9 have a look here;

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173535


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 2, 2007)

cernobila,
i have seen that, great work but they are all indoors...difficult to judge.

flashkat,
around 20 meters for around +/-5 mins at a time.

thank you.

joe


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## FlashKat (Sep 2, 2007)

Even though the comparison is indoors you can see the difference in brightness. 
20 meters is nothing for the Wolf Eyes Rattlesnake to throw with a Lumens Factory EO-13 Lamp Assembly. 
The beam is more focused for throw with good spill, and a very white beam.


pizzajoe62 said:


> cernobila,
> i have seen that, great work but they are all indoors...difficult to judge.
> 
> flashkat,
> ...


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 2, 2007)

flashkat,

will it be too much to ask for an outdoor beamshot???...i'd appreciate it very much.
as for the indoor beamshots, yes, the difference in output is very obvious.
but i want to see how that translate to throw...a wall of light is not important to me.
nor a beam like the ultra stinger...it has the range but too small to be of real use IMO.

joe


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## FlashKat (Sep 2, 2007)

I do not own a camera at this time. Maybe Cernobila could do a outside shot for you if he reads this post. 


pizzajoe62 said:


> flashkat,
> 
> will it be too much to ask for an outdoor beamshot???...i'd appreciate it very much.
> as for the indoor beamshots, yes, the difference in output is very obvious.
> ...


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## Robocop (Sep 4, 2007)

I recently changed my main duty light to the Raider D36 and am very happy with this light. I will add that the many Lumens Factory lamps are also a bonus to be able to use and the added output is incredible.

I carried the 8X by Surefire for years before changing to the Raider and was just as happy with the SureFire Commander. I will say without a doubt the SureFire was one tough light and never failed me once. I think the output of the SureFire is good enough for patrol however the Raider really suprised me and kind of spoiled me actually. Once I saw the difference in output between the 9 Volt Raider VS the 3.7 volt SureFire I was hooked. The output was greater however it was the much better tint of the Wolf Eyes that really got me. My SF looked almost brown compared to the Wolf-Eyes and I have never regretted changing to the Raider.

Now I will add that for some reason the glass lenses that the SureFire used appears to be much better than the Wolf-Eyes. I must have dropped my 8X 50 times over the years and have even used it as a club to break glass windows....the lens never failed me....not even a single crack. I have however broken several of the Raider lenses in normal usage on patrol. This is not really a problem however I would suggest purchasing at least two spare bezels if you go with the D36 turbo bezel.

I would not hesitate for a minute to advise you to buy both lights as thay are really very well done. I believe the SureFire is overall a better light however if sheer output, tint and being able to use those awesome Lumens Factory lamps are important then go with the Raider.


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## cernobila (Sep 4, 2007)

FlashKat said:


> I do not own a camera at this time. Maybe Cernobila could do a outside shot for you if he reads this post.



I read ya, hopefully in the next few days.....


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 4, 2007)

appreciate the help guys.
if you have the WE M100, can you include it?
thanks.

joe


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## ampdude (Sep 4, 2007)

cernobila said:


> If you want to compare the EO-13 to other LF lamps such as the EO-9 and HO-9 have a look here;
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173535




That's awesome, thanks for posting a link to that!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 5, 2007)

pizzajoe62 said:


> flashkat thanks...the rattlesnake does look like a very attractive alternative, a better "bang for the buck" thing.
> but there was a thread here by DICEMAN w/c had beamshots of this light.
> comparing the WE 9 raider & the rattlesnake showed not much advantage especially in the outdoor shots.
> i want something with a more significant difference from my PILA G3 w/c is very similar to WE's 9 raider.
> ...


Get the M300 Lion.


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 5, 2007)

i have seen some beamshots of the M300 here...its quite floody for my taste.
it appears to be an excellent "wall of light" but i much prefer a thrower.
thanks for the suggestion.

joe


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## j3bnl (Sep 5, 2007)

Go for the M90 Rattlesnake with the EO-13 bulb (you will need one of the extenders). I use this when on night duty and this baby will easily show things up clearly at well over 200yards.


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## pizzajoe62 (Sep 6, 2007)

does this out throw the M100?

joe


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## j3bnl (Sep 6, 2007)

Couldn't say for sure as I don't have the m100 bezel, but would be very surprised if it didn't.
It is a thrower make no mistake about that and great piece of kit when used with the 700 lumen bulb.


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