# M3T, M4, M6



## cernobila (Dec 3, 2007)

Just a quick one.........what is the standard head/bezel on the above lights called? Is it a KT4 or something else?.......I need one of these!


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## ttran97 (Dec 3, 2007)

Yes, the KT4

Surefire Turbohead


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## mdocod (Dec 3, 2007)

Surefire Police will be here soon to point out that it is called the millennium turbo head (or something like that). And that the term KT4 only applies to the kit that is sold with the MN15 and MN16 for use with the M3. 

However, Surefire also calls the Millennium turbo head a KT4 on their website, so I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics here because sometimes the police are wrong.


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## Brozneo (Dec 3, 2007)

mdocod said:


> Surefire Police will be here soon to point out that it is called the millennium turbo head (or something like that). And that the term KT4 only applies to the kit that is sold with the MN15 and MN16 for use with the M3.
> 
> However, Surefire also calls the Millennium turbo head a KT4 on their website, so I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics here because sometimes the police are wrong.


 
Haha! The Surefire Police! Its the KT4 turbohead - what else are you gonna call it???


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## cernobila (Dec 3, 2007)

mdocod said:


> Surefire Police will be here soon to point out that it is called the millennium turbo head (or something like that). And that the term KT4 only applies to the kit that is sold with the MN15 and MN16 for use with the M3.
> 
> However, Surefire also calls the Millennium turbo head a KT4 on their website, so I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics here because sometimes the police are wrong.



Thanks, I am planning on making a 9V light based on the 2x C size Li-ion cells, Leef parts for the body and switch and a LF M series EO-M3T lamp. Should be a beautiful looking light when put together. Its just a matter of getting one of these KT4 heads from somewhere.......


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2007)

mdocod said:


> Surefire Police will be here soon to point out that it is called the millennium turbo head (or something like that). And that the term KT4 only applies to the kit that is sold with the MN15 and MN16 for use with the M3.
> 
> However, Surefire also calls the Millennium turbo head a KT4 on their website, so I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics here because sometimes the police are wrong.


I'm not wrong in this case. :devil:

The KT4 is the No.4 TurboHead _*Kit*_.

It is wrong to state that the M4 or M6 has the KT4.
I doubt that SureFire state this on their website.

The Kit comprises of the 'Millennium TurboHead', the MN15 and the MN16 Lamp Assembles.

The Millennium TurboHead is the same as used by all Millennium TurboHead Modules (such as the M3T, M4, M6, M97, M98, M900AB, M500B etc etc)

The MN15 and MN16 Lamp Assemblies are powered by three SF123A batteries (such as the M3T, M900AB, M500AB, M97 etc)

The KT4 kit converts a standard Millennium model into the TurboHead version.
For example:
M3 + KT4 = M3T
M96 + KT4 = M97
M900A + KT4 = M900AB
M510A + KT4 = M510AB

Al :nana:


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## Brozneo (Dec 3, 2007)

Size15's said:


> I'm not wrong in this case. :devil:
> 
> The KT4 is the No.4 TurboHead _*Kit*_.
> 
> ...


 
EVERYONE RUN!!!! It's the Police!!! :lolsign:


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2007)

Brozneo said:


> EVERYONE RUN!!!! It's the Police!!! :lolsign:


I prefer 'Community Support Officer'...


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## cfromc (Dec 3, 2007)

I, for one, like having Size15 around. He is the resident expert and I can't remember seeing a Surefire question that he couldn't answer.


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## DaFABRICATA (Dec 3, 2007)

cfromc said:


> I, for one, like having Size15 around. He is the resident expert and I can't remember seeing a Surefire question that he couldn't answer.


 


My thoughts exactly!:wave:




yeah....800!


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## Brozneo (Dec 3, 2007)

cfromc said:


> I, for one, like having Size15 around. He is the resident expert and I can't remember seeing a Surefire question that he couldn't answer.


 
I know - it's great to have Al who knows so much about Surefire's - it's great that he has a lot of historical SF knowledge also! I wasn't trying to put him down - just have a bit of a laugh! We all know Al is a good guy!:thumbsup:


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2007)

Well one has to laugh because I'm such a pedant when it comes to SureFire terminology. I can't hardly help myself.

Al :green:


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## DM51 (Dec 3, 2007)

Lol Brozneo, you will REALLY need to watch out for Size15s if you ever dare to refer to Nitrolon as "_plastic_"!!


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## mdocod (Dec 3, 2007)

Direct from the SF website:



> The benefits of the KT4 TurboHead are two-fold: By increasing the size of the reflector and narrowing the focus of the beam, the KT4 TurboHead dramatically increases the flashlight's effective range and blinding effect. For longer-range applications the TurboHead is the ultimate enhancement for your SureFire flashlight or WeaponLight.



it's called the KT4 Turbohead twice in that description. It later goes on to list the lamps it comes with in the features list. But the fact that SF is comfortable simply saying "KT4 TurboHead" implies to me that it is considered correct by SF to use the term "KT4" semi-interchangeably with "TurboHead." 

Interestingly enough, NOWHERE in the description for the Kit No. 4 does Surefire Mention the word "Millennium"

My point is not to say that you are wrong (as I am quite confident that you have the specifics 100% correct), but my point is to point out that I think you care more about the specifics than even SF does. As evidence by their own wording.


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2007)

mdocod,
SureFire uses the same wording for all it's TurboHead Kits, for example the KT1 description:


> The benefits of the KT1 TurboHead are two-fold: By increasing the size of the reflector and narrowing the focus of the beam, the KT1 TurboHead dramatically increases the flashlight's effective range and blinding effect. For longer-range applications the TurboHead is the ultimate enhancement for your SureFire flashlight.


So your implication does not really hold up because SureFire uses the same wording for all of it's TurboHead Kits. 

You are right that one can refer to the TurboHead by the Kit number but that it only makes sense to do so when referring to the TurboHead Kit that fits and functions correctly on all the lights in question.

When it is necessary to refer to a TurboHead Bezel by itself, such as when the same TurboHead bezel is used by several different kits, and/or by several different products [that use different lamps] - this is when things come unstuck. Few TurboHead bezels have specific names. They are known by Series they form part of.

There are five main types of TurboHead bezel:
T-Series TurboHead (T1, T2, [T3], T4, T5)
T-62 aka "TRTH" Threaded-Rimmed TurboHead - for the 12PM/12ZM/LeopardLights 
SRTH TurboHead (Short-Rimmed TurboHead) - Only sold through SureFire Dealer LPS
KT TurboHead (KT1, KT2, [KT3], KT5)
Millennium TurboHead (for Millennium Series body threads)

These TurboHead bezel name are not widely used outside SureFire geek circles because SureFire only supplies TurboHeads as part of kits or whole products and people don't tend to need to know the name. You get the TurboHead along with the rest of the Kit for the model you need such as appropriate adapter collar and lamp assembly(ies)

The M3T and M900AB use the KT4.
The M3T, M4 and the M6 use the Millennium TurboHead.

The 6P and G2 use the KT1.
The 9P and G3 use the KT2.
The 8AX and 8NX use the KT5.
The 6P, 9P and 8AX (etc) use the 'KT' TurboHead.
Use of 'KT' without a kit number refers to the TurboHead supplied with the KT kits [rather than to the TurboHead supplied with the T-Series kits]
Note the T3 and KT3 are exceptions to this because they are of the same style but have unique threads.

The KT4 was an empty slot for quite a while because SureFire did not update the T4 to KT status. 
SureFire used the empty slot and thus added a second exception to the KT-Series.

Now that the 'Millennium' has been and gone SureFire are tending not to use "Millennium" in any description for the Millennium Series products preferring the term '_Special Operations Lights_' for the flashlights even though they are still laser etched with "Millennium Series".
Two exceptions to the Millennium Series handheld lights are the M1 and the M2. The M1 does not share any bezel interchangeability with any other product - the bezel is sealed and should not be removed. The M2 uses standard [aka 6P] body bezel threads. This was done for two main reasons: 1) because using the "Millennium bezel threads" and "M3" bezel made the M2 too thick and too long, and 2) because new Lamp Assemblies would be required and there was less scope for improving the P60/P61 as there was the P90/P91 in terms of what SureFire wanted to achieve. 



mdocod said:


> ...my point is to point out that I think you care more about the specifics than even SF does. As evidence by their own wording.


Without a doubt I am! SureFire's wording evolves along a different path to the products and I feel it fair to say that whilst it will never and can never be as pedantic as people like me would prefer, SureFire's Marketing Team have made fantastic efforts to make the wording more accurate and consistent.

I must remember that SureFire make products to be used, not products so that they can be correctly named. I climbed the walls in frustration when SureFire called the L4 the L4 as the KL-Series was born and developed!

Al


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## ttran97 (Dec 3, 2007)

All I know is that if you suggest using a KL6 on an M6, the Surefire Police...err, Community Support Officer...will say that it's a waste. So just keep the Millennium TurboHead on it. (KT4 )


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2007)

ttran97 said:


> All I know is that if you suggest using a KL6 on an M6, the Surefire Police...err, Community Support Officer...will say that it's a waste. So just keep the Millennium TurboHead on it. (KT4 )


I'm interested to learn whether the M6+KL6 is a waste or not because I don't recall the basis for why I think it is. There's another thread on this topic btw.


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## mdocod (Dec 3, 2007)

> SureFire uses the same wording for all it's TurboHead Kits, for example the KT1 description:



I noticed that, but don't feel that it changes anything or causes any argument to gain or loose water. Just shows me that they are comfortable calling the turbohead by the kit number.

I entirely agree that it is appropriate to call it what it is, a Millennium Turbohead, but also feel that this can generate more confusion than just calling it by the Kit number so people know what they need to order to get the right bezel.


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## cernobila (Dec 3, 2007)

cernobila said:


> Just a quick one.........what is the standard head/bezel on the above lights called? Is it a KT4 or something else?.......I need one of these!



......just as well that this was a quick one...........but has generated another question......what is the smallest head/bezel that will fit the SF "M" series fitting just like the KT4, I would like something smaller with more flood than throw being able to use SF and LF lamps.


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2007)

mdocod said:


> I noticed that, but don't feel that it changes anything or causes any argument to gain or loose water. Just shows me that they are comfortable calling the turbohead by the kit number.


SureFire do not refer the M4 or M6 TurboHead as the KT4.

To do so suggests that one can use the KT4 TurboHead Kit on the M4 or M6 and that suggests that the lamp assemblies supplied as part of the KT4 TurboHead Kit can also be used on the M4 or M6. SureFire are very clear about which lamp assemblies are designed and intended for each flashlight.

The KT4 is not a TurboHead. It is a conversion kit. 



mdocod said:


> I entirely agree that it is appropriate to call it what it is, a Millennium Turbohead, but also feel that this can generate more confusion than just calling it by the Kit number so people know what they need to order to get the right bezel.


People do not routinely need to order the Millennium TurboHead. It is not sold as an individual bezel. There are no products that could use the Millennium TurboHead but don't come with one as standard, and that need different lamps to the MN15/MN16.

All products that can be converted to use the Millennium TurboHead can be converted using the KT4 TurboHead Conversion Kit. In this instance one could use KT4 to refer to the Millennium TurboHead within the context of the conversion and use.

If you need a replacement bezel for an M4 or M6 then you should contact SureFire. You can take matters into your own hands by purchasing a KT4 kit, removing the Millennium TurboHead from the conversion kit and using the appropriate lamp assemblies for your flashlight.

Al


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2007)

cernobila said:


> ......just as well that this was a quick one...........but has generated another question......what is the smallest head/bezel that will fit the SF "M" series fitting just like the KT4, I would like something smaller with more flood than throw being able to use SF and LF lamps.


The Z46 ("M3") bezel used by the M3 is the smallest bezel with 'Millennium threads'.
SureFire offers the MN10/MN11 lamp assemblies for this bezel requiring three SF123A batteries in series (this excludes the M4 and M6).


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## FAAbUlights (Dec 3, 2007)

mdocod said:


> *Surefire Police will be here soon to point out that it is called the millennium turbo head (or something like that). And that the term KT4 only applies to the kit that is sold with the MN15 and MN16 for use with the M3. *
> 
> However, Surefire also calls the Millennium turbo head a KT4 on their website, so I wouldn't worry too much about the specifics here because sometimes the police are wrong.


 
The information provided by Surefire about their own products can be confusing to someone that doesn't have much experience with their flashlights and part numbers.

It took a lot of arguing throughout this thread just to explain that.

What you may need to know is the actual part number of the bezel that comes with a Millenium series light wich uses a turbohead such as the M6.

That part number would be *13849-1.*


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2007)

FAAbUlights said:


> That part number would be *13849-1.*


This part number along with part numbers for other key components of SureFires such as the M4 and M6 can be found in the instruction manual.
Note that part numbers may change (especially the detail code after the dash) so it is best to call SureFire to check and to see whether they will let you purchase a particular component from them.


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## DM51 (Dec 10, 2007)

These are the 2 labels you get on a KT4 Conversion Kit box.


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## ghosthound (Dec 12, 2007)

does anyone know where you can purchase just the bodies of surefire lights? i have an extra turbo head and would like to make a m4 out of it... or maybe even an m6?? i currently have a m3T so im just trying to build my collection!


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## LK5GB7 (Feb 5, 2008)

i'd also like to know something./ where can i get a fully assembled m3 head besides the factory? i have a L6 that is very bright but i want the ability to convert it from incan to LED. so i'd like to get the complete head if i could


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## Illum (Feb 5, 2008)

BST

not sure if the L6 was designed to be used with a KT...forget it ...used with the BIG GIANT HEAD. I think its possible since the KL6 fits on the M6 but....


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## LK5GB7 (Feb 6, 2008)

i just need a standard z46 non turbo lamp assembly. lamp, head, bezel, lens. 

M3 and L6 i believe are same bodies


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## kongfuchicken (Feb 6, 2008)

You can probably call SF and order a new one but cpf's bst is likely to have the better price.

The M3 and L6 have the same body, yes. You can put a kt4 on a L6, a kl6 on a M3, a z46 on a m3t...etc


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## LK5GB7 (Feb 6, 2008)

i can get the z46 head, bezel and lens from here

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/471622-REG/Surefire_Z46_Z46_Bezel_Assembly_Replacement_.html


i can get the mn10 bulb from here 

http://www.opticsplanet.net/surefire-lamp-led-conversion-kit-mn10.html


i just remembered, i still need a reflector. does either one of those come with it included?


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## JNewell (Feb 6, 2008)

I believe Opticsplanet also has the Z46.


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## LK5GB7 (Feb 6, 2008)

thats correct they do. but i cant seem to find an m3 reflector. i guess i can drive down to SF and get one


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## JNewell (Feb 6, 2008)

LK5GB7 said:


> thats correct they do. but i cant seem to find an m3 reflector. i guess i can drive down to SF and get one


 
Are you sure the bezel assemblies don't include the reflector? Last time I bought one, it had the head, windows, retaining ring and reflector. SF customer service could probably confirm/deny.


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## Patriot (Feb 6, 2008)

Size15's said:


> SureFire do not refer the M4 or M6 TurboHead as the KT4.
> 
> To do so suggests that one can use the KT4 TurboHead Kit on the M4 or M6 and that suggests that the lamp assemblies supplied as part of the KT4 TurboHead Kit can also be used on the M4 or M6. SureFire are very clear about which lamp assemblies are designed and intended for each flashlight.
> 
> The KT4 is not a TurboHead. It is a conversion kit.




The reason for the terminology wasn't really sinking in for me either until I read Size15s quote above. That finally cleared things up for me. Now it's much easier for me to think of the KT4 as a kit instead of a head. 

I guess that means that I can simply think of the KT4 kit as a package containing a millennium turbo head and bulbs designed for the M3. I hope that's correct. 

In other words if somebody broke the head on their M4, you wouldn't tell them to go get a KT4 head. You'd instead tell them that they need a Millennium Turbo Head and explain that one could be be purchased in the KT4 kit. You'd also have to explain that the kit comes with different bulbs than what his M4 uses..........?


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## Patriot (Feb 6, 2008)

LK5GB7 said:


> thats correct they do. but i cant seem to find an m3 reflector. i guess i can drive down to SF and get one



I think it does come with the reflector because the only way to get it out is through the front and Surefire doesn't offer bezel removal tools.


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## LK5GB7 (Feb 7, 2008)

thanks for the help that says alot. 

cant wait to get it. i hear the m3 output is awesome


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## Patriot (Feb 7, 2008)

LK5GB7 said:


> thanks for the help that says alot.
> 
> cant wait to get it. i hear the m3 output is awesome




Did you already purchase your MN10 bulb?

If not, I can save you about $10 a piece on a couple of new ones if you'd like.
Just let me know or PM me.


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## LK5GB7 (Feb 8, 2008)

wow really thanks. i have not ordered an mn10 yet but ill be sending you a message. i might want an mn11 HOLA too for S&G if you have them


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## cqbdude (Feb 8, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I'm not wrong in this case. :devil:
> 
> The KT4 is the No.4 TurboHead _*Kit*_.
> 
> ...


 
Can you please be a little bit more specific...I still dont understand..

Thanks for the clarification...:twothumbs


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## Illum (Feb 8, 2008)

theres a "KT4" [turbohead only] for sale in CPFM if anyones interested 
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=174941


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## Patriot (Feb 9, 2008)

LK5GB7 said:


> wow really thanks. i have not ordered an mn10 yet but ill be sending you a message. i might want an mn11 HOLA too for S&G if you have them



I have two extra MN10s and one extra MN11. Just PM me if you so decide.


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## adamlau (Feb 9, 2008)

cfromc has a new one for $129.00 as well. Good price.


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