# Enter The mag Dragon - Beam shots added



## ma_sha1 (Jun 27, 2010)

*Enter The mag Dragon - Over 300,000 lux @ 1 meter on the BFL*

After Completing the MagDEFT with SST-50/5Amp/3" Aspharic Search Light
(https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/268894)

I cam up with some improvements that could make a even better Monster Power thrower. 
This will be a two Phase project. 

Three major improvements that I'd like to achieve:

1. Make the 3" Aspherical Head focusable & can be transferred between different Mags, handy for comparing different LEDs.
2. Over Drive the SST-50 to 7 Amp, I was able to drive the MagDEFT to spec of 5AMP, but did not have an 7 amp over-drive solution at that time. 
3. The Flashlight will end up to be able to Run Aspoheric as well as reflector, greatly expand the utility of the search light. 

the above solutions will need to stay in Mag2D, as I can't tolerate anything bigger, even 2D mag is too big for my liking. 


*Phase I, The Aspherical Head.*

Starting out with the 85mm Aspherical Head from Fly Dragon.
If you are not aware of Fly Dragon, here is a link: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/271875

Fly Dragon Aspherical Head vs. 2" Mag head, good thing that it comes with the protection crown.











The head has two pieces, the bottom Piece has opening much bigger than Mag Tube, so an adaptor is needed. 






First, I grind away the inside thread of the Dragon Head





Then, I took a stock Mag D head & grind the hell out of it with my 6" grinder (With the help of my trusty old table saw) to make an adapter so that I can mount the Fly Dragon head to Mag D body. 

The adapter is shown to the right vs. Mag D Head, most of the Mag head
was grind away. leaving behind a 2-3mm tube with the Mag D head thread.





The adaptor only goes in half way, I have to do some more grinding 
on the inside of the Dragon head, there's about 1mm material left to remove so that the adapter can be pushed all the way in. 

Unfortunately, I've run out of time for this weekend, will have to continue next wk. 






Just a sneak pre-view what it would look like when done:
*Enter The* Mag*Dragon*:






To be continued...


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 27, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Reserved for Phase II. The body: Over drving SST-50 to 7Amp in Mag 2D.


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## Walterk (Jun 27, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Like it !! And I see progress in your builds 
Both the concept of interchange between Mag's and the SST50 at 7Amps.

Can you tell me the diameter and thickness of the lens?
And focal length if possible..?
(As I have a SST90 and a 75mm lens at hand... wondering if I can outperform the FlyDragon. Like that beast. )

Edit: Thx for the answer.
Its 75mm, and clear window 70mm diameter.
If the 'regular' HID lens is f 0.7, and this one is thicker as you mention, it is probably around f 0.5.
( The lens Newbie used with the first aspherical experiments was f 0.55 )


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## Hill (Jun 27, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Hey ma_sha1,

Another crazy yet very creative idea. I love the stuff you do!! Will keep watch to see your progress.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 27, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



Walterk said:


> Like it !! And I see progress in your builds
> Both the concept of interchange between Mag's and the SST50 at 7Amps.
> 
> Can you tell me the diameter and thickness of the lens?
> ...



The lens is 75mm, it is thicker than the 75mm ebay HID Projector lens used in the MagDEFT.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 27, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



Hill said:


> Hey ma_sha1,
> 
> Another crazy yet very creative idea. I love the stuff you do!! Will keep watch to see your progress.



Thanks, Buddy


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## A380 (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Great mod ma_sha1!!
Question: what is the internal diameter (where you grind the threads) of the Dragon head?
And focal length?
Thanks.


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## bigchelis (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Hi,

If you take off the Dome you automatically get 3x more lux....

Couldn't you make it a SST-50 domeless and add the aspheric lens too. I bet it would provide for even more throw/laser type beam.

I really like the adaptor mod:twothumbs


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## A380 (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



bigchelis said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you take off the Dome you automatically get 3x more lux....
> 
> ...


 
I thought that not using the dome, less lumens would arrive to the lens.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



A380 said:


> Great mod ma_sha1!!
> Question: what is the internal diameter (where you grind the threads) of the Dragon head?
> And focal length?
> Thanks.



I'll take some measurement later. 

dont know the EFL


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



bigchelis said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you take off the Dome you automatically get 3x more lux....
> 
> ...



Thanks.

Did you try lens? I thought dedoom helps reflector but hurt Aspheric.

why your de doom heat up more? more current?


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## moviles (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



bigchelis said:


> Hi,
> 
> If you take off the Dome you automatically get 3x more lux....



not true with aspherical lens 

I have accidentally dedomed one sst-50 and it lose lux with asphericals


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## moviles (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

nice mod :thumbsup:

you have buy only the head with the aspherical lens?

where you buy the head? price of the head?internal diameter of the threads?


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



moviles said:


> nice mod :thumbsup:
> you have buy only the head with the aspherical lens?
> 
> where you buy the head? price of the head?internal diameter of the threads?



Thanks!

Yes, I contacted the FlyDragon dealer HKequipment & 
they sold me the head for $55 shipped. 

The internal diameter is 75mm with a ring holding the edge of the lens, 
The lens opening is about 70mm, so the lens will pretty much throw the same as the magDEFT, 
but I'll increase the Surface brightness (Die luminance)by over driving the SST-50.

I might even do up a XRE R2 Mag 1D to compare with, since the head will be interchangeable between Mag bodies.
.
.


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## Al Combs (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

+1 to Hill's post about your mod's being fun to watch. So for $55 you get the head, the bezel and the aspheric? That's a great price. I like the shot from the side showing how deep the fins are. Should give excellent thermal management. That's another subscribe for me.

[Edit] The link for just the head is under the Searchlight tab. Out of stock on both colors though.:mecry:


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## beam24 (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

how often do they re-stock there items? i would like one but i see there all out ?


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



Al Combs said:


> +1 to Hill's post about your mod's being fun to watch. So for $55 you get the head, the bezel and the aspheric? That's a great price. I like the shot from the side showing how deep the fins are. Should give excellent thermal management. That's another subscribe for me.



Thanks Buddy, yes, It's indeed an excellent deal. A fancy mag aspheric bezel had cost in this range a while back,
Smaller 2" Aspheric heads for A9 etc. isn't much cheaper. The Dragon head will eat those & regular mag Aspherical for lunch, pair up with a hard driven R2, it'll probably give DEFT a run for it's money. 



Al Combs said:


> [Edit] The link for just the head is under the Searchlight tab. Out of stock on both colors though.:mecry:



Don't cry, I have a soft heart, so here is the trick on how to get one:

Go to ebay & search Flydragon SST-90, then contact the seller HKequipment, ask him if you could buy just the Aspherical head w/o the flashlight. That's how I got it.

Good luck & Hurry, before the crowds get here :devil:
Oh, don't forget to remind him to send referral fee to me 
.
.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



beam24 said:


> how often do they re-stock there items? i would like one but i see there all out ?




FYI, even if they have in stock, the store charges $33 to ship one head to US. HKequipment is much better, good luck.


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## Al Combs (Jun 28, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



ma_sha1 said:


> Go to ebay & search Flydragon SST-90, then contact the seller HKequipment, ask him if you could buy just the Aspherical head w/o the flashlight. That's how I got it.


Thanks for the tip. :thumbsup:


ma_sha1 said:


> FYI, even if they have in stock, the store charges $33 to ship one head to US. HKequipment is much better, good luck.


Yikes, that really is good to know. :twothumbs


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 29, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Had about 2 more hours of grinding, filling & fitting tonight, I was able to fit the adapter all the way in. 
lots of work, but I think it's worth it:




















Now that the magDragon head is done, I'll be moving to building the rest of the flashlight soon.


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## Noctis (Jun 30, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



moviles said:


> not true with aspherical lens
> 
> I have accidentally dedomed one sst-50 and it lose lux with asphericals


That might depend on the die size VS size of the aspheric.

My dedomed SST-90 throws a hell of a lot further than my domed SST-90 using an aspheric in a P60 sized head.


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## Mettee (Jul 1, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

That looks cool. 

I will wish for a lathe for you for Christmas!


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## ti-force (Jul 1, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



Mettee said:


> I will wish for a lathe for you for Christmas!



Yeah, yeah..... rub it in ............


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## circa (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Hurry up and finish, I need an idea on what to do next since my stock led maglite throws the same as my kd aspheric xre!!!


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## kramer5150 (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

too cool.. Nice work as usual:thumbsup:


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Thanks & Sorry guys, I am a little slow.

I am running into some hurdles , some part are still on order, can't finish it up yet, but I do have some progress made. Will post some updates tomorrow.


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## beam24 (Jul 2, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

did u decide on what driver ur going to use ?


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 3, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Yes, DIW's Linear driver special made for me at 7 amp.


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 3, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Got to keep my promise, so here are some updates:

I soldered 22AWG wires to SST-50 & used Arctic Silver to glue down to the brightlumens mag D SST-50 HAIII heat sink. I am pretty sure this is enough to handle the 2Amp over spec on SST-50, but only time could tell for sure,

No one has tried to drive SST-50 this hard as far as I know. 






I grind down 2-3mm from bottom of the Mag D switch & wired a copper pad as the positive to connect to switch 
core with super short 18AWG wire, this eliminate the factory "leef spring connection" on the bottom side, 
reduce resistance or possible sparks at high amp. 

What's the big deal with the extra 3mm? You'll see.





As far as battery of choice, I have previously sold a Mag 2D SST-90 runing on 4x 4/5 Sub C. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/278919
However, I have since worked out fitting 4/5 Sub C into the much more compact Mag 2C (FS at B/S/T):
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/281139
Since Mag D tube is so large, it'll really benefit if I could fit much bigger NiMH in there.

*Enter The 4000mah half D NiMH: *

These 1/2 D are rated 12Amp max current, they look huge next to the 4/5 sub C.





However, the 4x 1/2 D is just slightly longer & needs to go into the tail cap. So I bored out the tail cap:





This turns out to be an unexpected challenge, as the battery hasn't gone into it deep enough, 
I have already bored open some area that I cold see the threads, see the dark "cut" right above the "shelf":





Unwilling to bore it out any further & risk of detaching the thread section from the rest of the tail cap, 
I could not close the flashlight, there is a small gap remaining even with the extra 3mm space gained 
by grinding down the switch:





The good news is: I think the gap is small enough that I could fill it with Down load's mag Ring 2: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/178764&page=12
This will also allow to JB weld the Mag Ring to the body, therefore beef up the section that I have filed 
open some "cuts". 

The bad news is, that's a delay of 2 weeks perhaps?  
I just placed my order & haven't gotten a response yet.
.


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## Al Combs (Jul 3, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



ma_sha1 said:


> *Enter The 4000mah half D NiMH: *
> These 1/2 D are rated 12Amp max current, they look huge next to the 4/5 sub C.


Do you have a link on the 1/2 D's? I looked for them before I settled on the 4/5Sub-C's I ended up using.


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## cmacclel (Jul 3, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

I think it's time you bought a mini-lathe 

Mac


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## Al Combs (Jul 3, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

+1 on the lathe for Christmas. He reminds me of darkzero in his pre-lathe days. I always used to wonder looking at his posts, "How'd he do that without a lathe?"


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 3, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



Al Combs said:


> Do you have a link on the 1/2 D's? I looked for them before I settled on the 4/5Sub-C's I ended up using.



Only one seller on ebay has it. Hi amp type.


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## Mettee (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

Hey I have a question...

When you used that heavy gauge wire, did you have any issue getting the led to sit all the way into the pocket? The last one I did would not go down as the wires would not fit into the milled pockets very well. I had to mill the area where the wire travels to get it to sit where it should.


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 4, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*



Mettee said:


> Hey I have a question...
> 
> When you used that heavy gauge wire, did you have any issue getting the led to sit all the way into the pocket? The last one I did would not go down as the wires would not fit into the milled pockets very well. I had to mill the area where the wire travels to get it to sit where it should.



Max AWG is 20, I bend the wire 90 Deg. test fit first, tight but do fit.

22 AWG is eazier & still good for 9A.


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 11, 2010)

*Re: Enter The mag Dragon*

While waiting for the 7A driver & Mag ring to come, I measured the LED Amp with IMR 26650 direct hook up an AW IMR 26500 w/o flashlight light body. It came out to be 7.3 Amp . I got lucky on this one in terms of low Vf, because for all the SST 50 & 90 I bought from various places (Photonfenetic, Avnet,4Sevens etc., I have never had a SST 50 or 90 went above 6A when direct hook-up to IMR 26650 or AW 26500 IMR.

So I decided to build a short Mag 1D body for this low vf SST-50 for now,
Just so I don't have to wait any longer. I cut a 3D Mag down the same
way as shown here, but I think I am getting a little better each time: 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/273748

MagDragon 1D Shorty:










When not using the dragon head, mated it with a Sputtered mag reflector 
give a nice beam. 






Light engine inside Inside the Dragen head:
I had to grind down the DIY adaptor inside thread, remove about 1/2 inch of thread to allow mag body to screw in deep enough for optimal focus. 






Beam shot about 20ft away next to my 52 Inch Plasma TV:
It has a very large spot due to the short EFL of this lens vs. my previous built magDEFT SST-50 which used a Automobile 3" Projector lens which had longer EFL ( https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/268894) The spot appears just as bright if not brighter & the Total lumens went into the spot have increased a lot. 





I realize that was not very smart after I took this shot, as plasma TV is prone to be bleached, hopefully no perminant "dragon stain"  





Up against Ledean Mag 1C Aspherical 52mm lens





MagDragon Aspherical 1D on Top/Leaden mag Aspherical 1C on bottom. 





Super low exposure at ISO 1000, 1/1000" F2.6.





here is a beam shot with the dragon 1D body with sputtered mag reflector in regular Mag D head, same 20ft distance:





The Goodby shot:
(I wasn't really going to say goodby to the dragon, I just couldn't put it down, I kept admiring it & this photo came out as if I was going to say goodby :nana.


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## Al Combs (Jul 11, 2010)

Nice results. Does your 3" Franken-DEFT lens fit this head?:naughty:


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 11, 2010)

I sold the magDEFT but I am sure I could make it fit.

Are you winking at a possible dual lens system? 

I have cooler mods cooking, but too early too spill the beans...


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## Al Combs (Jul 11, 2010)

Dual lens system?


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 11, 2010)

I am not talking about this light


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## ma_sha1 (Jul 22, 2010)

I am not quite done with the MagDragon, while I have the 1D/26650 SST-50 to play with, I still want to finish the 2D 7AMP version of SST-50. 

I just got the last one of the High Current Linear Driver, it's custom configured for 7AMp out:

The bottom two holes says L+ B+, it looks connected on the board.
*Do anyone know if the L+ & B+ are actually the same terminal?*







the mag Ring2 also arrived, this allows me to finally fit the 4x 1/2D cells & close the tail cap to complete the electrical circuit:
At 4000 mah, this allows one to build a SST-90 on Mag 2D with 2x the capacity than this light I sold recently:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/278919

Also, if you are aware of the Vera2000 SST-90 that BigC has been testing,
this set-up would allow a Vera2000/SST-90 be built on more compact mag 2D platform. (Vera 2000 is done on bigger Mag 3D).
Even 2D is too big for my taste, I am not going to build anything on 3D even if it could give me a 1 million lumens :nana:






Last but not least, the DWdriver has a built in current control by pot,
I am trying to get a pot that could control the brightness & does on/off at the same time. 

Unfortunately, the pot I received is too big & the two smaller one I ordered was on back order & didn't ship with the package (They are 15mm diameter & can fit into the mag D switch hole) 





Also had to get more brightlumens heat sink, so more waiting ...


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 10, 2010)

Still not able to finish the longer 7Amp version of the SST-50 body,
not only the smaller Pod never showed up, neither is the bright lumens heat sink, after a month, I finally found out that it was out of stock. Finally, I canceled it & ordered some of the Der Wichel's new SST heat sink for MagD, so the waiting starts again. 

However, I went ahead & did some lux measurements on the existing MagDragon 1D/SST-50 body.

I was able to set-up a 10 Meter system, given that light in the *100K lux club* usually need long beam maturation distance, 5 meter is still too short. 

I had to get a Monocular in order to read the numbers from the DX lux meter at 10 meters away 

The spot appears slightly brighter than the Fraken MagDEFT I previously made (also 3" lens) here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/268894

The 10 Meter Lux came out to be 1060, which converts to 106,000 lux @ 1 meter. Given the DX lux meter is known to read 15-20% below real lux, 
My estimate is that the *MagDragon is doing 120,000-130,000 Lux @ 1 meter*, well into the realm of the DEFT FTP, I.E. as bright as Cree R2 on 3" lens, just a lot bigger beam spot.

I also charged up the 26650 fresh & measured the turn on Amp in the flashlight, *which is ~6 Amp* (5.99 Amp to be exact). This is higher AMP than any other SST-50 or SST-90 AMP I"ve seen on IMR 26650 (Most SST I had were doing in the 3.5-4.5 Amp range with IMR 26650, regardless SST-50 or 90), def. got lucky on the low vf emitter on this one.

Compared to the MagDEFT which was driven to 5AMP using two parallel DX drivers & measured ~100,000Lux @ 1 meter,

I think it's fair to say that the MagDragon increase of 6% lux is due to the additional Amp, rather than the quality of the optics. However, I do like the Mag dragon optics better, because it has a shorter EFL than the 3" HID projector lens used in MagDEFT & Thus, producing a much bigger hot spot,
even more useful as a long distance search light, the quality of the spot is pretty nice too. Plus, the MagDragon retains Ma's full focusing ability & can be used as a massive flood light as well.


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## Al Combs (Aug 10, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> The bottom two holes says L+ B+, it looks connected on the board.
> *Do anyone know if the L+ & B+ are actually the same terminal?*


Sorry I didn't notice your question. If it still matters, yes they are the same terminal. The same as if you stacked a bunch of 1,400 ma AMC7135 boards together. You could run the LED+ directly to the battery. A separate much smaller wire could be used to supply positive to the VDD pin and avoid overloading the switch. Or as you mentioned before, if you wire the pot switch in series with the pot, you only need two wires to the *H* and *C* terminals and cut down on the clutter. A 0.5 ma constant drain on a 4,000 mAh battery is trivial.



> I am not going to build anything on 3D even if it could give me a 1 million lumens :nana:


Well for a million lumens I just might.:laughing: But I agree, 3D is generally too big.

BTW, the only place I was able to find on ebay selling 4,000 mAh 1/2-D's said they were 37.5 mm long. Was it Component-Shop in the UK? If not, could you PM me the link to the store you found yours at? That picture looks like the whole pack is only ≈ 140 mm long and would fit with some tailcap boring and a download style sponge/solder-wick combo.



> Last but not least, the DWdriver has a built in current control by pot,
> I am trying to get a pot that could control the brightness & does on/off at the same time.


Good luck on your quest for the right pot. Can't wait to see what you come up with.:thumbsup:


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 11, 2010)

Al Combs said:


> BTW, the only place I was able to find on ebay selling 4,000 mAh 1/2-D's said they were 37.5 mm long. Was it Component-Shop in the UK? If not, could you PM me the link to the store you found yours at? That picture looks like the whole pack is only ≈ 140 mm long and would fit with some tailcap boring and a download style sponge/solder-wick combo.
> 
> Good luck on your quest for the right pot. Can't wait to see what you come up with.:thumbsup:



Al Combs, I got it from ebay, a UK seller, So you are on to the right cells . 

I don't think you can do it w/o the mag ring, because the diameter is big, 
I find myself boring the tail cap trying to fit the battery until the area where the O-ring sits is bored open. 

I had to back-out the battery & order the mag ring so that the battery reaches just above the thinest section.
I then applied a thick band of JB weld in the the Mag O-ring section, under where the Mag Ring sits, filed the void completely, (about 1mm thick) so the whole section is beefy & secure again.


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## Al Combs (Aug 11, 2010)

Thanks for the info ma_sha1. That UK site lists the internal impedance of the battery as 15 milliohms vs the 4/5 Sub-C Sanyo NiCad's I'm using now being only 5.5 milliohm. So I'll get more voltage drop, but also more than double the runtime.

Do you have a caliper and could you measure the O.D. of the batt? Component-Shop listed it as 32.8 mm, but considering how far off they were in length...


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 11, 2010)

Al Combs said:


> Thanks for the info ma_sha1. That UK site lists the internal impedance of the battery as 15 milliohms vs the 4/5 Sub-C Sanyo NiCad's I'm using now being only 5.5 milliohm. So I'll get more voltage drop, but also more than double the runtime.
> 
> Do you have a caliper and could you measure the O.D. of the batt? Component-Shop listed it as 32.8 mm, but considering how far off they were in length...



Yes, it'll more than double your Run Time, I sold a 4x 4/5 Sub C NiMH SST-90 on Mag 2C (DD ~8Amp), I think the battery was 2000 mAH, but I noticed the run time was significantly shorter than my 4x eneloop SST-90 Mag 1D (DD ~8.3 Amp). So I think the smaller sub C might not handle the high current as well as this beefy 1/2 D in terms of staying true to the claimed capacity. 

I don't have caliper but I can measure with a ruler if you need. 

Alternatively, the diameter is the same as the narrowest part of the mag D tail cap, if you take a string & measure the circumference of the groove just under the o-ring, divide that with 3.1415926, you'll get to the diameter of this battery.


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## Al Combs (Aug 11, 2010)

That's interesting about the eneloops having a longer run time than the Tenergy 4/5 Sub-C's. They're supposed to have the same capacity. When you say narrowest part of the tailcap, do you mean the O-ring notch?

Forgot to ask, how is this new Dragon head's thermal dissipation? It looks like you could run an SST-90 continuous with all those fins. Does the SST-50 get hot in your IMR 26650 1D body? You'd never get 7 amps with the extra 0.3 volts drop of the DIWdiver regulator using a single IMR Li-Ion. But it would be much safer for the LED using 4*NiMH.

Here's a controversial thought. There was a guy on the forum years ago who used Li-Ion and NiMH in series. I tried to find it again but couldn't. I know that flies in the face of conventional wisdom. What with the danger of burning your house to the ground or having the light explode in your hand. The trick he said was to use a Nickel battery of lower capacity than the Li-Ion you paired it with. But even if the NiMH had a higher capacity, the light would go dark before you could go into reverse polarity. One of the 4,000 mAh BatterySpace IMR's might make a good experiment with a 43mm NiMH Sub-C. That's only 108mm of battery. Much shorter than any combo of 4*NiMH that have anywhere near 4,000 mAh capacity. The Sub-C goes next to the LED to absorb the heat from the head. With a little brake honing, the pair would fit in a 2C-Mag. And so would DIWdiver's 7 amp regulator.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 11, 2010)

Al Combs said:


> When you say narrowest part of the tailcap, do you mean the O-ring notch?



Yes



Al Combs said:


> Forgot to ask, how is this new Dragon head's thermal dissipation? It looks like you could run an SST-90 continuous with all those fins. Does the SST-50 get hot in your IMR 26650 1D body?



Because it's running at 6 Amp, SST-50 still run hot after a while, the head is beefy, I am sure SST-90 is fine but don't know about how long. 




Al Combs said:


> Here's a controversial thought. There was a guy on the forum years ago who used Li-Ion and NiMH in series. I tried to find it again but couldn't. I know that flies in the face of conventional wisdom. What with the danger of burning your house to the ground or having the light explode in your hand. The trick he said was to use a Nickel battery of lower capacity than the Li-Ion you paired it with. But even if the NiMH had a higher capacity, the light would go dark before you could go into reverse polarity. One of the 4,000 mAh BatterySpace IMR's might make a good experiment with a 43mm NiMH Sub-C. That's only 108mm of battery. Much shorter than any combo of 4*NiMH that have anywhere near 4,000 mAh capacity. The Sub-C goes next to the LED to absorb the heat from the head. With a little brake honing, the pair would fit in a 2C-Mag. And so would DIWdiver's 7 amp regulator.


 
Tech Junkie recently run a SST-90 on Lipfe04 26650+ a 4000mAH NiMH, I think he got 9Amp or so.
I aked him about the safety & he also quoted for a Guy who'd done it before. Perhaps you are talking about the same guy? 

It make sense as both are safe chemistry & high Amp cells with matching capacity, seems like a perfect DD solution except that it's such a Taboo, there's not enough people tried "safe mixing", I don't have the balls to do it .


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## Al Combs (Aug 12, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> Tech Junkie recently run a SST-90 on Lipfe04 26650+ a 4000mAH NiMH, I think he got 9Amp or so.
> I aked him about the safety & he also quoted for a Guy who'd done it before. Perhaps you are talking about the same guy?


I haven't seen very many posts like that so perhaps it was the same guy. If you figure 1.2 and 3.3 is a total of 4.5 volts, that's a lot of voltage drop at only 9 amps. I'm guessing it wasn't an A123.



> It make sense as both are safe chemistry & high Amp cells with matching capacity, seems like a perfect DD solution except that it's such a Taboo, there's not enough people tried "safe mixing", I don't have the balls to do it .


I measured my Mag-D's tailcap O-ring notch to be 32.84 mm diameter. It's a shame that 1/2-D's aren't really 30 mm long. Since the 4*1/2 D's won't work anyway in a 2D Mag, all this talking about it has me thinking of going the mixed chemistry route myself.:duck:

Using an LiFePO4 would as you say remove the danger element in combining chemistries. The taboo is the explosion factor, not the mixing per se. DIWdiver's regulator isn't the boost variety, so I don't foresee any battery damage from over discharge. I can easily tell when my 4*4/5 Sub-C's drop out of regulation before their voltage gets too low. This should be the same, just higher capacity.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 12, 2010)

Al Combs said:


> Since the 4*1/2 D's won't work anyway in a 2D Mag, :duck:




It does work, as the picture I show above, all you have to do is add the mag Ring & then bore the tail cap shallow & stop just before reaching the o-ring groove area. 

I am just waiting for my new D sink from Der Winchel to finish it up.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 12, 2010)

Oh, I forgot to mention that you also need to shave off a few mm at bottom of the D switch, I forgot about that since this project drag out so long. 

You can see the bottom of D switch from picture above sanding marks.


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## overdog (Aug 12, 2010)

...you are completely crazy!
I remeber rasping down some little reflectors for my projects with lots of problems, but I have no idea how you manage your projects without professional tools (as my father said- best tools are your two hands- if you can handle them)... you can!

Biggest respects & best regards,
Steffen.


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## Al Combs (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks for your help ma_sha1.

+1 to overdog's post. I knew you didn't have a lathe. I didn't know you didn't have calipers... Amazing.

BTW, HarborFreight sells digital calipers for under 20 bucks. One of the guys at work bought one recently. I was surprised by the level of quality for that price.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 13, 2010)

overdog said:


> ...you are completely crazy!
> I remeber rasping down some little reflectors for my projects with lots of problems, but I have no idea how you manage your projects without professional tools (as my father said- best tools are your two hands- if you can handle them)... you can!
> 
> Biggest respects & best regards,
> Steffen.



Thanks buddy, I am enjoying the unique challanges & overcoming obstacles with innovative ideas, if things become too easy with the help of fancy tools, I may lose interest & move to different hobby. 

I was into fishing until when I progressed from catching sunfish to bass to trout to salmon. When I finally learned enough tricks & was able to catch salmons on every trip, knows exactly where & when to go & what lure to use under what conditions, I got bored & moved on to different hobby.

With flashlight latheless modding, I am at most a "brown belt" where there could be six degree black belt ahead, in which I imagine I can eventually "fin the head" with my hand one day & make it look nice. 

That's why I only make one type of light one time, not into repeating...


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 13, 2010)

Al Combs said:


> Thanks for your help ma_sha1.
> 
> +1 to overdog's post. I knew you didn't have a lathe. I didn't know you didn't have calipers... Amazing.




I didn't know that I needed one, I do have a ruler you know, plus, my "eye balling" skills are getting better


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## Al Combs (Aug 13, 2010)

Keep up the good work.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 13, 2010)

Thanks, Buddy.

Guess what? The Der Wichel heat sink arrived, that's pretty fast shipping :twothumbs.

20AWG Teflon wires were soldered to the LED first & then the SST-50 was glued in place with Arctic Silver Adhesive. I potted wires to the hole with JB weld, this way, when working on the rest, the wires aren't going to tug the solder point & possibly damage it. If you break the solder point, with the led already glued in place, it's pretty much game over, can't solder it back on. 





A piece of Copper disk was used as Driver heat sink, the driver was glued to it with Arctic Silver as well, then the Copper heat sink is glued to the bottom of the Der Witchel SST heat sink. Again, I like to clamp it in place.

There are total 3 separate glue & set actions in sequential order, takes quite some time to complete the whole thing, as each step I wait 4-6 hrs to make sure the adhesives are completely set. 






All in place now, heat sink to mag tube I used Arctic Silver 5 thermo paste, to the thread,
I applied with generous amount of white Fuji thermo paste. 





The back end of the Mag Rebel SMO, the quick focus post is cut. 





I've made quite a few Rebel SMO based SST mags, but still, each time I
am always amazed by how deep & shinny the reflector is, this baby is going to throw like mad:




Whola, it's all done. 





Putting batteries on the charger...


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## Al Combs (Aug 15, 2010)

I like the use of the Fuji thermo paste to thermally couple the head to the battery tube. IMO, a necessary but often overlooked step. Especially considering you must be putting out about 27 watts ([email protected]) just for the LED. Is it difficult to turn if you want to adjust the focus?


ma_sha1 said:


> All in place now, heat sink to mag tube I used Arctic Silver 5 thermo paste, to the thread,
> I applied with generous amount of white Fuji thermo paste.


Beamshot?:naughty: In all seriousness, I was wondering if you have a similar SST-50 with a cutoff "normal" Mag-Incan reflector to compare it to. Or just your impressions if you don't mind. In one of the recent discussion/arguments about throw, the subject came up of a case of two reflectors with the same diameter where one is deeper than the other. The deeper one is actually a higher speed shorter focal length reflector. That assumes they are both parabolic reflectors. The higher speed means more light is being focused into the hotspot. But because it also has a shorter focal length, the hotspot would also be larger. Less spill definitely, but more throw?

That thread really was more argumentative in nature, so the subject never was fully explored. Did you ever do a side by side comparison with a normal and a Rebel reflector? I would be interested in your subjective observations, if any. Thanks.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 15, 2010)

Al Combs said:


> I like the use of the Fuji thermo paste to thermally couple the head to the battery tube. IMO, a necessary but often overlooked step. Especially considering you must be putting out about 27 watts ([email protected]) just for the LED. Is it difficult to turn if you want to adjust the focus?



It's not hard to turn at all. It does't get dry. 




Al Combs said:


> Beamshot?:naughty: In all seriousness, I was wondering if you have a similar SST-50 with a cutoff "normal" Mag-Incan reflector to compare it to. Or just your impressions if you don't mind. In one of the recent discussion/arguments about throw, the subject came up of a case of two reflectors with the same diameter where one is deeper than the other. The deeper one is actually a higher speed shorter focal length reflector. That assumes they are both parabolic reflectors. The higher speed means more light is being focused into the hotspot. But because it also has a shorter focal length, the hotspot would also be larger. Less spill definitely, but more throw?
> 
> That thread really was more argumentative in nature, so the subject never was fully explored. Did you ever do a side by side comparison with a normal and a Rebel reflector? I would be interested in your subjective observations, if any. Thanks.




Here is a beam shot:You can see a hint of square, you only get that when it's in perfect focus with SMO reflector. 
(To the naked eye, it looks perfectly round)





I don't know if you've seen this light I made a while ago? That's SST-50 driven to 5Amp with 2x DX P7 driver in parallel & with a DX P7 OP Reflector. The light was sold to BigC & it became the first LED light to break 1000 OTF in his test. It had a Throw of 22,000 lux @ 1 meter.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254481

With Rebel SMO, similar SST-50 light I measured gives 33,000 Lux @ 1 meter. I also tried brightlumens Mag OP reflector, actually not as good as the DX P7 reflector. 

Regular Mag if it's SMO, would give a terrible beam spot, So that was never an option for me on the SST. 

All my current SST lights are on Rebel SMO. It's very possible that the 33% gain in throw is really because the SMO vs. OP, however, because the only SMO that could give a beautiful beam is the Deep Rebel SMO, that makes this reflector the best by leap & bounce.

All the other OP reflectors I've tried while building P7 lights, including Incan reflector, pretty much all throw about the same, the difference, if any isn't significantly & probably has more to do the degree of OP. 

There was a post a while ago, a guy compared Litho OP vs. FM Deep reflector OP on Mag 1185, surpricingly., the throw was the same, the FM gave a smaller spot but it wasn't any brighter. 

That's another reason that I believe the gain from Rebel SMO is due to the surface finish.


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## Al Combs (Aug 15, 2010)

Thanks for your answer.:twothumbs I've been thinking of a Rebel Mag for my next project. As soon as I get a little extra money put aside...


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## Icarus (Sep 23, 2010)

Great mod and lots of useful info! :goodjob: :twothumbs


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 23, 2010)

Thanks!


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 25, 2010)

New beam shots. lighthouse about 700 feet away.


35W HID:






Mag dragon SST-50 @ 6 amp.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 29, 2010)

Got some BFLs (Big F#[email protected] Lens) in Today 

They look like from some kind of projection system. 
The whole unit has three lens in side. Two are 115mm (4.5 inches diameter), one are about 3.5".

All three are condenser type, the one in the middle is 2" thick & weight about 2-3lbs alone. It's Double side AR coated.






I tested the three BFL lens, the middle one performed the best, I simply put the Magdragon body behind the lens & hold in my hand, move a bit to find the focal point, it came out* > 300,000 lux @ 1 merer :devil:*
This is running the SST-50 engine @ 6 Amp. I'll probably make a Mag Cannon at some point, 
using SST-50 driven to 9Amp, combines with BFL lens, it'll be able to compete with the 400Klux MagDaddy. 

The beam with the SST-50 is gorgeous, a snow white square w/o any flaw or rainbows. Every bit of light is in that square, nothing escaped to the surroundings. It's even better looking than the SST-50 behind the dragon lens.
I've made quite a few Aspheric flashlights before, never had one that's flawless, this is the first time I've seen one, you had to see it to believe. 

Then, I tried the MagDragon Jr light engine with the 1.8Amp Cree R2,it came out about the same lux but it had some significant rings & beam flaws. The second time that I observed a lens perfect for SST & not seem to work well on Cree.


The entire *BLS Optical system weight in at 6 Lbs*, about half of the weight is the beefy killer lens which 
is 4.5" Diameter & 2" inch thick. 






I was able to run dual lens; The big lens & the 3.5" lens together, it made the cree spot a little better,
but at a reduction of about 15% or so in throw. 

So the best case situation is really to build a SST-50 & drive the hell out of it,
put it behind the big single lens & I'll be in the 400k lux led club:laughing:


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## LED4LYF (Sep 29, 2010)

That is cool ma_sha1, I can not believe that lens is so thick and six pounds, wow. You might want to make a top handle like a spot light for that one. Seems like it would be pretty hard to hold that head up with a MAG attached to it. My lenses are no where near that heavy, buy I guess that makes mine easier to carry around. I have yet to get a lux meter for my BFL:mecry:. I hope to at least have that much lux. Great work


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 29, 2010)

Yes, I'll definately need to make it into a Spotlight style. I am having trouble hold up the 6lb system with one hand trying to aim the spot at the lux meter sensor. 

I'll mount a mag head & light engine to the rear, allow it to adjust focus but mount a handle & battery up on top. 
With the big beefy single lens, The focal point is just a bit outside the rear of the tube.


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## Yavox (Sep 29, 2010)

Where did you get Fly Dragon head from? Are they available separately or with whole light only?


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## LED4LYF (Sep 29, 2010)

You can get just the head at hkequipment.net


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## toby_pra (Sep 30, 2010)

Awesome shots :thumbsup:


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## Indonesian (Oct 1, 2010)

How about the heat?


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 1, 2010)

Heat is no problem, SST-50 is running at 6Amp, Vf ~3.85 under load. 
~23W.

It'll heat up but with hand holding the mag to transfer heat sway, 
I can run this light non stop.


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## Indonesian (Oct 1, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> Heat is no problem, SST-50 is running at 6Amp, Vf ~3.85 under load.
> ~23W.
> 
> It'll heat up but with hand holding the mag to transfer heat sway,
> I can run this light non stop.



awesome..!!!
I'm thinking about build a light like this to use as hunting spotlight, well maybe with external battery pack so it's can run like 6-7 hours non stop.

Thanks ma_sha1 for your explanation


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 1, 2010)

You are welcome!

Good luck with your build. Hunting spot light is a perfect application,
don't know if animals will run for cover if they see you shine the light on them?


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## NeSSuS-GTE (Oct 1, 2010)

It's actually the opposite. Most animals freeze in place when they get shined. On the other hand, the raccoon's in my backyard don't seem to even notice when they're getting blasted by a dual HID VEC192.


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