# Rural mailbox vandalism solution - 300 lb mailbox?



## LED Zeppelin (Jul 24, 2008)

I live on an unlit rural road in an area where mailbox vandals strike regularly during the summer. Seems to be kids with nothing better to do late at night.

My neighbor was struck a month ago. His steel tube support kept getting pulled out of the ground and left in the ditch. He since put some bolts at the bottom of the tube and cemented the post.

Last weekend, Sunday night, it was my turn. Mine is a plastic Step 2 mailbox with a blow molded top that slides onto a bottom support. It was mounted on a 4X4 post that wasn't pressure treated, and apparently a good kick broke the post just below ground level. It was then thrown into the ditch.

I decided to beef up my mailbox. I dug out the old non-cemented post and dug a larger post hole, wider at the bottom. The post is now a 2 1/2" square steel tube, 1/4" wall, with an extension welded to the bottom. I used (3) 50# bags of concrete.

I thought I was done, but when I remounted the mailbox, it was unsatisfyingly flexy, and a kick could easily break the top half of the 2-piece unit from the bottom. 

I decided to go all out. I cut some openings in the underside of the blow-molded mailbox top and support bottom. I hand-filled and settled a total of 300# of reinforced concrete into both parts, reassembled, and drilled and bolted the top half to the bottom with 10 SS bolts.

I let it cure for half a day, and wheeled it down the drive nearly popping the tires of my dolly. Trying to position such a top-heavy thing correctly on top of the steel post, and mount using (2) 3/8" SS bolts is a frightening, death-defying, herniating feat. I could have used a little help.

In a few days when the concrete fully cures, I do believe it will be rock solid - a total sleeper. Pity the fool who attacks it next.

I making one more improvement - instead of the fender washers on the (2) 3/8" bolts that mount the plastic bottom to the post, I'm making a 3 X 20" steel channel that will sandwich the bottom and increase rigidity.

I do have one concern though - what if someone hits it with a car? If it's intentional, ha ha, I dream of it. But if it's an accident, it could total a car I'm afraid, and cause undue injury. I've done my best to fasten the top to the bottom so the top won't separate and become a 150# projectile. Hopefully nobody hits it that doesn't mean it harm.

*EDIT: pics added*

This is of the 2 1/2" steel tubing curing in concrete. The (4) 1/2" square tubing welded to the sides are to make it dimensionally the same as the original 4 X 4 wood post (cell phone pic):






This is with the box mounted and the rear cover removed:





Here is the front steel channel that replaced the fender washers securing the unit to the post:





And this last pic shows the 5-per-side bolts securing the top to the bottom:





Access holes for filling with concrete are on the undersides and not visible.

I've given it a good shaking and the unit is quite rigid. The entire pad can be wiggled a bit but the post/box does not flex at all. I may dig out and add more concrete around the base.


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## adamlau (Jul 24, 2008)

Now how are me and my boys going to have fun :thinking: ?


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## paulr (Jul 24, 2008)

That sounds entertaining but a cheap remote vidcam and some IR leds would identify the vandals a lot easier.


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## DaFABRICATA (Jul 24, 2008)

We had a problem with people vandalizing mail boxes in our old neighborhood. My fathers solution was to take an old nitrios bottle, chop the front off, weld on a door and weld the tank to a 2X3 rail about 7 feet long. It was mounted real deep in the ground in case someone decided to use the car. Well a few week later there were broken bat parts everywhere. We NEVER had any more problems after that.:laughing:


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 24, 2008)

paulr said:


> That sounds entertaining but a cheap remote vidcam and some IR leds would identify the vandals a lot easier.


No power out there, and 300' from the house. If you know a way to do it I'm there.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 24, 2008)

LZ, gotta show us some pictures....just for the accomplishment. You also wonder if "they" will now make you the gang challenge. Not a bad idea with the IR triggered hidden video. I would also do an IR post movement alarm sensor, and have lighting pop on...and consider Claymores with movement trip wires. LOL!


Save all your receipts if it does come to police action recoving damages.

Hopefully you won't have a winter snowplow incident. They trash a fair share of roadside items.


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## aussiebob (Jul 24, 2008)

Last christmas eve our letterbox was pulled from the ground 20kg of cement and all and thrown through our neighbours window.

Great thing to wake up to on Christmas eh.

I hate when people do these stupid things.


Weve also had it run over several times by idiots in cars, i think im gunna make one like yours, damn it would be funny to se some idiot crash their car into that.:devil: HAHAHAHA


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## BVH (Jul 24, 2008)

We had the same problem on our rural route. Hit 4 times. Finally got the Post Office to install their own multi-unit steel mailbox. Never had another incident.


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## RyanA (Jul 24, 2008)

Actually mailboxes coming loose and going through the windshield has been one of the primary safety concerns over the years. As long as it stays anchored it should be ok.


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## Daekar (Jul 24, 2008)

Someone else did the same thing with their mailbox - 1/4" steel plate, welded, etc. The little idiots drove through, hitting it with a baseball bat as they went by. I believe the guy swinging went to the hospital! Got what was coming to him...:shakehead


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## koala (Jul 24, 2008)

Paint it with high reflective paint. Actually, thick Red-White or Yellow-Red stripes will do. However it may reduce it's sleeper-ness  factor.

Then take some pictures pleasee!!!



LED Zeppelin said:


> I do have one concern though - what if someone hits it with a car? If it's intentional, ha ha, I dream of it. But if it's an accident, it could total a car I'm afraid, and cause undue injury. I've done my best to fasten the top to the bottom so the top won't separate and become a 150# projectile. Hopefully nobody hits it that doesn't mean it harm.


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## jzmtl (Jul 24, 2008)

Heard this on another forum, guy got sick of loosing mailbox, build one out of thick steel pipe and big concret base, a couple of days later he saw front half of a broken aluiminum baseball bat lying in ditch, never had a problem since.


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## Manzerick (Jul 24, 2008)

My mail box is on my house so this really doesn't apply to me but... I always thought of an idea for this problem..


What if you took a big mail box... stuffed it with cement and placed a small mail box inside. Basically it'll just look like the big one with a BIG surprize!!!! 


Don't even know if it's feasible but this reminded me of it LOL


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## unclearty (Jul 24, 2008)

Guy out in my neck of the woods had the same problem. Turns out he was a metal fabricator by trade. Formed a new mailbox out of rolled steel..painted..looked perfectly normal. Drove a steel pipe about 6 feet down..filled it with concrete..welded new mailbox on. His wife painted a butterfly and their house # on it. About 1 week goes by..1 am he gets woken up by a loud noise and screaming. The little morons were riding in a convertible..front passenger takes a swing at this Fort Knox mailbox...bat breaks and the big piece flies back and hits his friend in the back seat...in the face..bad. The swinger shattered his elbow. The were outside the guys house yelling when the police showed up. Cops also found a video camera on the back floor. They had been doing this for awhile..videotaping it all and putting the video on the internet. Ahh...to be young and stupid


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## jmw19 (Jul 24, 2008)

I love reading all the solutions people come up with. I suppose it's a good thing more vandals don't have access to shaped charges...

We never had problems keeping our mailbox in place, but some idiots would spraypaint an arrow on the side every hunting season. One of the drawbacks of living on a long driveway, I guess.


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## flashburn72 (Jul 24, 2008)

We always used a old car spring or two welded together.
Looked good and stopped people hitting it with there old farm trucks


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## IcantC (Jul 24, 2008)

unclearty said:


> Guy out in my neck of the woods had the same problem. Turns out he was a metal fabricator by trade. Formed a new mailbox out of rolled steel..painted..looked perfectly normal. Drove a steel pipe about 6 feet down..filled it with concrete..welded new mailbox on. His wife painted a butterfly and their house # on it. About 1 week goes by..1 am he gets woken up by a loud noise and screaming. The little morons were riding in a convertible..front passenger takes a swing at this Fort Knox mailbox...bat breaks and the big piece flies back and hits his friend in the back seat...in the face..bad. The swinger shattered his elbow. They were still outside the guys house yelling and crying when the police showed up. Cops also found a video camera on the back floor. They had been doing this for awhile..videotaping it all and putting the video on the internet. Ahh...to be young and stupid


 


Ah Karma.

To the OP, what about those battery powered cameras that run by motion detector to avoid battery drain?

I do hope they get caught and also break something.


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 24, 2008)

I'll take some pics as I finish the last modification to the mount today.



IcantC said:


> Ah Karma.
> 
> To the OP, what about those battery powered cameras that run by motion detector to avoid battery drain?
> 
> I do hope they get caught and also break something.



I tried to devise a relatively inexpensive means of video taping the culprits and prosecuting them, but it would have to be self-powered and capable of capturing in near complete darkness. It would need to be active from about 2 - 6 AM, or motion activated.

If anyone has specifics as to how this might be accomplished I'd love to do it.


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## LukeA (Jul 24, 2008)

LED Zeppelin said:


> I'll take some pics as I finish the last modification to the mount today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wildlife cameras. Available at Gander Mountain. Cabela's as well.

They are exactly what you want. Motion sensing, capture in darkness, self-powering

Here's one at Cabela's.


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## jzmtl (Jul 24, 2008)

What if you put it on a swivel mount, so it swing around when hit? People up here do it so their mailbox doesn't get taken out by snowplow in winter.

It's like this:

```
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| |
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         =
         |
        /|\
```


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## Marduke (Jul 24, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> What if you put it on a swivel mount, so it swing around when hit? People up here do it so their mailbox doesn't get taken out by snowplow in winter.
> 
> It's like this:
> 
> ...



I like that. When they hit it, it can swing back around and get them from behind.

+1 to the wildlife cameras. They make ones which use IR LED's, so they won't even see it snapping pics, and (some) can last for weeks on a set of batteries.


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## IcantC (Jul 24, 2008)

Oh nice link Marduke, not a bad price and last 150 days on 6 D cells!

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...ct&cmCat=Related_IPL_418461&id=0046571417902a

That would be great to snap a pic. 

People that have used these, does it keep taking pics once sensor is triggered? Or just 1 pic? Can I set it to take 1 pic every 5 seconds once it is triggered?

Edit, oh I see you can let it record vids and pics! Wow might be your ticket! I might pick one up for the house as a security measure.


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## ABTOMAT (Jul 24, 2008)

I get a big kick out of mailbox upgrades. A guy on a metalworking board I was on had a similar problem. He went all-out on the solution. Mailbox itself made out of sections of oilfield pipe casing, flame-cut steel door welded on, support post was a length of steel steam pipe filled with concrete and sunk a long way into a concrete pour in the ground.

I think one of the problems had been guys who had wised up to "sturdy" mailboxes. Rather than hitting them with bats, they would throw a chain around the box and pull it out with a truck. Well, one night the owner hears this unholy noise coming from out on the street. Goes out there to find the rear half of an old full-size pickup still chained to his mailbox, and the rest of the truck a few yards down the street. I don't think the driver saw that coming.


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## jzmtl (Jul 24, 2008)

I'd pay to see that!


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## Illum (Jul 24, 2008)

our mailbox have been pulled out more than twice, once was dragged:duh2:
smashed in twice with the road in front of the house spray painted 
egged once, but it could be an isolated case

knocked down once accidentally [clipped by a garbage truck] and the guy later apologized :thumbsup:

I've once wanted to anchor it to something so I found some 1/4" winching steel in the scrap yard. I cut the 4x4 stud the mailbox sits on in half. I secured the steel through some scrap metal and ran the steel between the wood in a loop and bolted it under the metal mail box body. I took some left over 1/2" bolts and secured the two parts of the stud then put everything back together. I didn't bother pouring a cement grade underneath [first mistake, it wobbles].

Dug a trench to the nearest telephone about a foot deep and laid the wire under soil and bolted one end to the telephone poles grounding anchor[2nd mistake]. 

So far we haven't had any worries, but then the land on the other side of our property [where the mailbox stood] was sold and they decided to put down the little flags to show where the wires are so the parcel can be developed...apparently they wrote us a letter saying our mailbox has been booby trapped and the power company's coming down to "disarm" my mailbox:shrug:

Something about "if the overhead lines shorted and it bypass's via ground we'll be in alot of excitement." I had thought about the possibility, but since its grounded throughout the dirt as it traveled from the ground anchor to my mailbox I hadn't thought of it 

the mailbox as of today is has been returned to normal...but now the post is 2 feet deep in concrete:thumbsup:


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 24, 2008)

I've added some pics to the first post.

I didn't imagine the nationwide scope of mailbox vandalism. Thanks for the entertaining stories as well as the great links for the IR remote cameras - they seem perfect for the job and I have several spots where they could be mounted depending on the range of the IR illumination.

I'll search around for one with about 50' range, quality pics, and the ability to take a series of shots during activity.

I'm wondering though if I need to capture the license plate as well as the culprits. Here in MI the cars have only rear plates which decreases the likelihood of a license plate pic. If I only snap the vandals, how likely would it be that they could be identified and prosecuted?

The local vandals don't seem to use bats, maybe the noise is a deterrent. They seem to do whatever they can quietly. They used to pull out the neighbor's post but without damaging the box itself.


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## Lee1959 (Jul 24, 2008)

You must be careful with such modifications. There can be unintended consequences. A neighbor did a very similar thing with their mailbox after having it destroyed numerous times. He built a practially indestructible mailbox and then had a drunk driver hit it with his car. The man was killed by the mailbox and his family sued. They stated that a normal "breakaway" mailbox would have not caused the fatal damage and that his was dangerous. They won a rather large settlement against him.

Another gentleman in the area had problems with people hitting his home. He lived at the end of a road, directly across the street. After a few times of having his porch hit he put in a huge decorative boulder in his front yard. Some drunk hit it and ended up sueing and winning a lawsuit over it. 

Sometimes you cannot win in these situations. :shakehead


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## jzmtl (Jul 24, 2008)

I hate to say it, but those lawsuits? Only in the states...


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## sawlight (Jul 24, 2008)

I had a neighbor with the same problem years ago. His solution was to bury a FULL railroad tie in the ground to regulation height. He then took a large mailbox and cut a hole in the bottom to fit over the RR tie. He attached the big box with angle iron and strap steel on the bottom. Then he put a smaller mailbox inside and screwed it to the top of the tie and lined bricks inside between the two boxes. His problems stopped, but not before a few dents were made in th outer box!!
I think the city finally made him take it down


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## Sub_Umbra (Jul 24, 2008)

I've seen a couple rural mailboxes on swivels -- one was even set up so that it would return to it's original position.

Many years ago I had a friend who's box kept getting wiped out by the snowplow. He replaced the post with a 30" diameter elm log that was 10' long. It could _spin the plow truck around_ when hit. That solved it.


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 24, 2008)

Lee1959 said:


> You must be careful with such modifications. There can be unintended consequences. A neighbor did a very similar thing with their mailbox after having it destroyed numerous times. He built a practially indestructible mailbox and then had a drunk driver hit it with his car. The man was killed by the mailbox and his family sued. They stated that a normal "breakaway" mailbox would have not caused the fatal damage and that his was dangerous. They won a rather large settlement against him.
> 
> Another gentleman in the area had problems with people hitting his home. He lived at the end of a road, directly across the street. After a few times of having his porch hit he put in a huge decorative boulder in his front yard. Some drunk hit it and ended up sueing and winning a lawsuit over it.
> 
> Sometimes you cannot win in these situations. :shakehead



This is a serious concern of mine. However, upon testing the finished box, it seems that the post will come out of the ground before too much damage is done. I buried it about 2 ft. deep with 3 bags of concrete. I can wiggle the post/pad slightly by hand. So hopefully it is not removeable by manpower, but will give if hit by a car. With a total of 450# of concrete though, it is quite an inertial mass.


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## ackbar (Jul 24, 2008)

Lee1959 said:


> You must be careful with such modifications. There can be unintended consequences. A neighbor did a very similar thing with their mailbox after having it destroyed numerous times. He built a practially indestructible mailbox and then had a drunk driver hit it with his car. The man was killed by the mailbox and his family sued. They stated that a normal "breakaway" mailbox would have not caused the fatal damage and that his was dangerous. They won a rather large settlement against him.
> 
> Another gentleman in the area had problems with people hitting his home. He lived at the end of a road, directly across the street. After a few times of having his porch hit he put in a huge decorative boulder in his front yard. Some drunk hit it and ended up sueing and winning a lawsuit over it.
> 
> Sometimes you cannot win in these situations. :shakehead



That is crazy. A drunk person committing a traffic violation. Crashing his vehicle into a stationary object suing someone and winning? The judge in both cases should be disbarred.


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## oronocova (Jul 24, 2008)

Hello,

My uncle has a mailbox post made out of a crank out of an old Cummin's engine. It nearly totaled his 70's model LTD when my cousin backed into it. So the danger of damage is real I'd say with your's also. His is on the side of a busy 2-lane that gets a lot of truck traffic as well as car. I guess you just have to judge for yourself how much of a risk it poses.

I like the work you have done though. One wack with a baseball bat and they will find something else to do for the night I'd say. Check out my uncle's if you want: http://picasaweb.google.com/oronocova/AtMomAndDadS/photo#5215949300486619858 (i think the link works?)

-Jon


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## KC2IXE (Jul 24, 2008)

double mailbox, c4 in between, impact detenator should do it 

Or how about - we LET them smash up the box - couple of cans of pepper spray in between, with that nice purple ink the bank anti-theft packs have - just tell the police/postal inspectors to look for the purple car/people


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## TedTheLed (Jul 24, 2008)

after the first smashing I got an 18 gauge steel mailbox and bolted it onto an 8 ton truck spring, then welded a foot on the bottom of the spring which was submerged in a huge mass of concrete along pch..we even dug out a bit under the edge of the highway and filled the concrete in there so you couldn't even lift out the slab with a backhoe!
it's great, it's just springy enough to bob in the wind, but you can sit on it and ride it like a bull..  
when I get my mail, a give it a good shove and let the motorists passing by wonder why that mailbox is springing back and forth..


and...I agree with ackbar, drunks have no rights hardly at all in court. you can even run over a guy, and if you can prove he was drunk, you're clear.
I doubt those cases lee mentions are real.


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## Bogus1 (Jul 24, 2008)

You might check regulations before making these kinds of modifications. It might just be because I live in a snow zone, but boxes here are regulated and must break away so they don't damage the snow plows.

Remote cameras are the way to go really since mail theft is a bigger issue than mail box destruction. With a camera you might not only be able to help LE with prosecution, you might also be able to recover ID documents and mailed items as well.


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## TedTheLed (Jul 24, 2008)

what's "snow" ??

my box will bend if hit with a car, or plow, and possibly strike back, but it won't break! 


I have this motion-activated camera:

http://www.defensedevices.com/wireless-video-capture-camera.html

can run on 4 aa's, and capture 6 hours of action..at 1 pic per 5 seconds -- or set it at up to 14 pics per sec..lots more features..


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## skalomax (Jul 25, 2008)

Nicely executed design, Dennis.


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## tdurand (Jul 25, 2008)

Just put a sign up near the mailbox that states, "You are being filmed"
Let'em call the bluff.
T


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 25, 2008)

I think I'll contact a local attorney and see what the legal profession thinks about my concrete mailbox.

In the meantime I've been researching the IR game cameras, and had a few questions if anyone has experience with them:

- Is the IR flash visible to the human eye? If so wouldn't they simply steal or smash the camera when they noticed it? 

- Do they make any audible sound? The last thing I would want is them to find the camera. None of the models seem to have any theft-deterrent mounting, or bat-proof housings.

Another option is to trench to the end of the drive and install a security light. If I did that I'd probably ditch the concrete box for legal concerns, and go back to a stocker.


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## RyanA (Jul 25, 2008)

LED Zeppelin said:


> This is a serious concern of mine. However, upon testing the finished box, it seems that the post will come out of the ground before too much damage is done. I buried it about 2 ft. deep with 3 bags of concrete. I can wiggle the post/pad slightly by hand. So hopefully it is not removeable by manpower, but will give if hit by a car. With a total of 450# of concrete though, it is quite an inertial mass.



That might be worse. Like hitting a deer.


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## RyanA (Jul 25, 2008)

tdurand said:


> Just put a sign up near the mailbox that states, "You are being filmed"
> Let'em call the bluff.
> T



That might just entice some. Teens most likely, striking out at the oppressive confines of authority, and some such junk.


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## LED_Thrift (Jul 25, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> What if you put it on a swivel mount, so it swing around when hit? People up here do it so their mailbox doesn't get taken out by snowplow in winter.
> 
> It's like this:
> 
> ...


I modified my mailbox just like that soon after we moved into our present house 16 years ago. The letter carrier said our box was too far away from the street - the same box that the original owners of our house had used for 30 years!? Mounted the box to a four foot long 1.5" dia. galvanized pipe so it could swivel if hit.


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## nikon (Jul 25, 2008)

I've got my mailbox mounted on flexible plastic tubing. It'll bend 90 degrees and pop right back up.


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## Illum (Jul 25, 2008)

KC2IXE said:


> double mailbox, c4 in between, impact detenator should do it



yeah, then you get this no0b courier that ships your new M6/Mclux/expensive light and its keeping the door from closing and he decides to slam the door in.

my Community college diploma was bent in this manner:shakehead


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 26, 2008)

LZ, I expected nothing less. That setup is a work of art. 

If you are not seeing this as workable, go visit the local P.O. and see if they can give you any ideas, special exception, etc. They have had to deal with before....and getting ANYTHING from them regarding permission/exceptions will protect you legally.

It's amazing how much good will a Christmas present & some conversations with your actual postman can bring...especially if they heard about your problem.

Final answer is a P.O. Box, or if you have one of those P.O. Office Stores nearby that can give an actual street address.


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## mrsinbad (Jul 27, 2008)

I saw a post once from this guy that used cold rolled steel and welded it to look exactly like a standard mailbox. Imagine the reaction from the kid that wanted to play mailbox baseball with his new mailbox!


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## CLHC (Jul 27, 2008)

A friend of mine lives out in the rurals where they did have their mailbox batted and shot at more than a few times. They thought of getting one of the HD versions, but decided to leave it alone as soon as they found it lying on the ground. Funny thing of it is, they never bothered to replace it, and sure enough, it was never "vandalized" again.

The U.S.P.S. mailman simply would have to bend get off the truck and literally bend over to put mail in the bullet ridden mailbox lying there. They got a picture of their mailbox posted on the front of the local newspaper for the ugliest yet usable mailbox in town!


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## NeonLights (Jul 28, 2008)

We live out in the country and while we've never had our mailbox vandalized (I did chase down some kids I caught doing it to other's mailboxes in our area 20 years ago), we do have a problem with snowplows in the winter. Our next door neighbors typically replace theirs every year or two because a snowplow takes it out. 

We've been very lucky with our so far though. It is just a relatively inexpensive (around $10-15 probably, it was left by the previous owners) plastic mailbox mounted on a 4" round post. When the snowplow hits it, the plastic deforms, pops the lid off its hinges, and the plastic mailbox retains its shape. I just keep an eye out for when the snowplows run, and go out and dig my mailbox lid out of a snowbank and snap it back into place. 

I've though of putting something very heavy-duty in place, but I would be worried about the liability of damaging a snowplow or having someone accidentally hit it, we live on a busy state highway with a speed limit of 55 mph and traffic is usually moving at 65+ mph. As long as our cheap little plastic mailbox keeps bouncing back into place, I'll stick with it.


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 28, 2008)

Thanks for the kind words LuxLuthor and Skalo.

I went to Cabela's and was in line with a Moultrie IR game camera and mouting box in hand, only to have left my wallet behind. 

But after much thought, I decided not to spend the $250 for the camera that may or may not capture a picture that could lead to prosecution. I decided the money would be wiser spent on security lighting or the next iteration of my mailbox should one be required.

If I need to do it again, I'll make something more indestructible, but perhaps spring mounted to absorb/deflect collisions or something on a weeble/wobble base that can simply be stood back up.


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