# Thor Battery Maintenance?



## GrnXnham (Dec 27, 2005)

I got the 15 Million Thor for Christmas. The manual says to always recharge immediately after discharge and to not leave the light discharged while storing it for maximum battery life.

My question is whether or not a lead-acid battery like the Thor should be recharged after each use or should I wait until the battery is almost dead to recharge it (cycle it)? Do you know which practice will make a lead-acid battery last longer? The manual doesn't say anything about this. If I use the light for only 5 minutes, should I then charge it back up again?


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## Mad Maxabeam (Dec 27, 2005)

It is better to store lead acid batteries fully charged. But if your light gets regular use, charging and discharging you won’t need to do that. I have sold and used this type of battery for many years typically they are very reliable. Worst case, you can buy replacement batteries for $6.00 each.


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## GrnXnham (Dec 27, 2005)

Only $6 each? How much are the bulbs? I figured replacement batteries would be $20. Where would you buy replacement bulbs and batteries for the Thor?

Heck, for $6 I won't worry too much about battery maintenance.

Thanks for the help.


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## mdocod (Dec 27, 2005)

lead acid batteries are some of the oldest battery technology we use, and yet, they are so awsom.... They are a bit heavy, but cost effective...


The life of lead acid batteries depends on design... A Car battery is designed to give thousands of cycles within about 10% drain of total capacity. General use batteries, like the one in your thor, can be used effectivally at just about any drain cycle. They are not very prone to memory effects. Hundreds of cycles can be expected. Lead acid is also very *nice* in that they are "rugged"... they can deal with harsh drain, recharge, and overcharge with minimal damage.

NIMH, ION, CADium, etc etc... they are all great at providing more oomf for the size and weight. But lead acid is still king in my book for the simple cheap rechargable.



bottom line.... use it however you want.... full drains, parcial drains, only rule being that if you want to store it without using it, charge it once and awhile. If you wear it out, no biggy, they are cheap to replace.... You have a wide veriety of bulbs to choose from... Anywhere from $5 to $50 or more... H4 autimotive bulbs fit... there are some other threads around here that could have more insight into which bulbs are most effective.


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## markdi (Dec 27, 2005)

a new thor battery for 6 bucks - ya right.

dream on.

nicad is more robust than lead acid - by far

keep your thor charged or build yourself a float charger for it.

you could use the original wall wart and a simple lm-317t to regulate the voltage at about 13.2 volts.


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## ledebuhr1 (Dec 27, 2005)

Will it hurt it if I plug it in to charge it if it still has a lot of charge left on the battery? I thought It would get memory.
I dont get why it should take 15hrs to charge that battery. The charger says it outputs 1000mA.


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## That_Guy (Dec 27, 2005)

Only Nickel based batteries (NiCd and NiMH) are affected by memory. The more charge you have left on the battery when you charge it, the better. Lead acid batteries hate being at anything other than full charge. Being at any state of charge other than full charge slowly destroys the battery. The lower the state of charge, the faster the rate of damage. You should always recharge SLA batteries as soon as possible after use, even if it was only used for a few minutes. In addition to the slow damage over time caused by not being fully charged, SLA batteries wear out much faster if they are deep discharged. Stick to shallow discharges if possible.

Recharging SLA batteries also damages them, so don’t leave the charger permanently connected, and if you are recharging after only a few minutes use don't leave it on the charger for more than a few hours. It is impossible to prevent SLA batteries from getting damaged. The only way to stop the battery being destroyed by not being fully charged is to constantly charge it, which also destroys the battery, so you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Despite this, you are still better off recharging a SLA when it is only slightly discharged rather than waiting until it is significantly discharged before recharging.


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## markdi (Dec 27, 2005)

Continuously float charging sla's at the right voltage does not hurt them at all.
it is highly recomended.


sla's can be float charged for many years without damage.


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## markdi (Dec 27, 2005)

I love it when I am right


http://www.jaycar.com.au/images_uploaded/slabatts.pdf


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## ledebuhr1 (Dec 27, 2005)

Can you float charge them with the stock charger? or do you need to buy an aftermarket one.


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## markdi (Dec 27, 2005)

not with out some sort of voltage regulator added to it

http://www.radioshack.com/sm-adjustable-voltage-regulator-lm317t--pi-2062601.html


http://pdf.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/8604/NSC/LM317T.html


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## That_Guy (Dec 27, 2005)

markdi said:


> Continuously float charging sla's at the right voltage does not hurt them at all.
> it is highly recomended.
> 
> 
> sla's can be float charged for many years without damage.


You are mostly right about the float chargers. I was mainly talking about the stock Thor charger. To recharge a SLA battery you need to apply at least 2.4V per cell, which will still damage it. The lower voltage from a float charger isn't capable of actually properly recharging a SLA battery, only keeping it from self discharging, which is why they are called float charges. Because of this most good float chargers at first act like normal charges, applying 2.4V per cell, then when the battery is full drop down to around 2.25-2.3V per cell to keep the battery from self discharging.

The problem with the float voltage is that it still isn't perfect. If the voltage is too low the battery will still be damaged from not being at 100%, if the voltage is too high the battery will be damaged by overcharge. The thing is that both of these voltages overlap. The voltage at which the battery is at 100% also damages the battery from overcharge, and the voltage at which the battery isn't harmed by overcharge, the battery is at less than 100% and will be harmed by not being fully charged. However, despite this a float charger is still better than nothing and will make your battery last many years, but it still isn’t perfect.


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## gadget_lover (Dec 27, 2005)

If it's like my 10mcp Thor, it has a 12 volt, 7ah SLA battery. They can be purchased for about $20 at local stores. Sometimes you find them cheaper, but the battery may have set on a shelf uncharged for a year or two.

You can take the battery out of the light to charge it if you like. Not very convenient, but should maximize the life,

Daniel


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## markdi (Dec 27, 2005)

that guy 

sla battery's are not as delicate as you seem to think they are


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## That_Guy (Dec 27, 2005)

I guess I have come across as saying that SLAs are very delicate. What I'm trying to say is that it is pretty much impossible to keep them in perfect condition. But yes, you are right, SLAs are actually rather tough. Out of the four main rechargeable battery chemistries (lead acid, lithium-ion, NiCd, NiMH) SLAs are probably the toughest. 

The two main things that people should remember about SLAs are:
-Never store them when they are discharged
-Never fully discharge them (when the light gets low, turn it off, don’t let it run all the way down to 0V)

These two things will quickly kill the battery.

All the other things I've said earlier really only apply if you want to be really anal (like me) and get the absolute best possible life out of the battery. If you obey the two rules above, you should get at least a few years of good service.


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## markdi (Dec 28, 2005)

nicads are the most robust of all of the recgargeable battery types


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## That_Guy (Dec 28, 2005)

The thing which stops me from putting NiCds at the top of the list is memory effect/voltage depression. How tough they are depends on how they're used. Same applies to lead acid. If NiCds are used frequently with regular complete discharge/charge cycles then yes, I would say that NiCds are the toughest. But if they are only used occasionally and never fully discharged and left permanently on the charger then I would say that they are less robust than lead acid. This causes memory and eventual irreversible loss of capacity, and often results in soft shorts. I have seen many NiCds go bad when used in this manner. Lead acid, on the other hand, performs best when used in this manner and will last longer than NiCd. If lead acid is frequently used with complete discharge/charge cycles it will quickly wear out and will be outlasted by NiCd. So no battery chemistry is tougher in all cases. It depends on how their used. NiCd is better for complete cycles, SLA is better for standby use.


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## Mad Maxabeam (Dec 29, 2005)

markdi said:


> a new thor battery for 6 bucks - ya right.
> 
> dream on.
> 
> ...


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## pr5owner (Dec 31, 2005)

markdi said:


> nicads are the most robust of all of the recgargeable battery types



they also hold the least amount of charge and are prone to memory effect, even newer nimh dont have memory, its actually recommened that you recharge your nimh's right away, which is why they die if you go below 0.1v

nicds may be able to operate in more harsh temps and you may be able to draw more amps but they just suck now because they are old technology



GrnXnham said:


> Only $6 each? How much are the bulbs? I figured replacement batteries would be $20. Where would you buy replacement bulbs and batteries for the Thor?
> 
> Heck, for $6 I won't worry too much about battery maintenance.
> 
> Thanks for the help.



the Thor is just using regular H4 Automotive halogen, which MEANS you can get GE Nighthawk or Osram Silverstars!!!! and make it an even brighter, white light, unfortunatly those nighthawk or silverstar bulbs are around $25CAD so like $20USD


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## NewBie (Dec 31, 2005)

pr5owner said:


> the Thor is just using regular H4 Automotive halogen, which MEANS you can get GE Nighthawk or Osram Silverstars!!!! and make it an even brighter, white light, unfortunatly those nighthawk or silverstar bulbs are around $25CAD so like $20USD




No, the bulb in the Thor is a pretty decent hotrod bulb, just the battery way underdrives it.

http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/12569_2t.jpg
http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/12569.jpg

On the subject of SLA batteries, it is often useful to visit the manufacturer's site to get the word from the horse's mouth:
http://www.bb-battery.com/images/MANUAL/technical manual(VRLA).pdf

Once you got that digested, then it is good to look at the specs on the particular cell:
http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/HR/HR9-12.pdf

Also notice the top off voltage depends on cell usage, and temperature...


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## mdocod (Jan 1, 2006)

I guess I have to agree that NICD bats are very robust when serious current is demanded, both in charging and discharging... I have an old Sanyo battery pack I use in my RC car.... It's 3300mah(if i recall) 8.4V setup, The car copmletally drains the pack in under 5 minuts of hard running.. (has a VERY modified motor in it). And then I usually would take it out of the car, let it sit to cool off, (it would get so hot, that it would burn the fingers and was melting the plastic the cells are wrapped in)... after it cooled I would put it on my smart-charger and crank it. Charge time is about 15-20 minuts.

I figure the motor on the little thing probably peaks at drawing around 30 amps tappering down to around 12 when it spools up to speed...

I had about 100 charge/discharge cycles on it last I used it, and it was still working fairly well, though probably time to consider a replacement pack.



"the Thor is just using regular H4 Automotive halogen, which MEANS you can get GE Nighthawk or Osram Silverstars!!!! and make it an even brighter, white light, unfortunatly those nighthawk or silverstar bulbs are around $25CAD so like $20USD"

Actually the GE and Osram bulbs you are talking about, while very decent bulbs, are only 60/55W bulbs... They would probably be whiter than the stock bulb, and they would definetally give much longer run times, but they wouldn't be brighter than the thors stock 130/100W philips. However.... something to consider.. with the stock wiring, the 130W really drags down the voltage at the bulb, a lower wattage bulb would probably run with higher voltage at the bulb over the same wiring, resulting in better lumen/watt efficiancy. it's all about tradeoffs...

A narva 100/90W is what Newbie is using in his thors hammer project, seems to be a darned good bulb.


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## Echo63 (Jan 19, 2006)

SLA type batteries are used as a back up in most alarm systems
they generally have a float charger attached 24/7 and they dont seem to suffer from it
it is recommended that alarm system batteries are changed every two years but the old ones that are removed generally still have some life in them
the one thing i have seen that kills SLA batts really quickly is discharging them till they are dead flat before recharging them


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