# New 18650 with 3000mAh from KD



## maxilux (Feb 21, 2009)

Anyone tested this:

http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6813

3000mAh ??? can it be ?


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## Anders (Feb 21, 2009)

Hello maxilus.

They seem to be bigger than normal 18650:s:
Length: 7.00cm 
Width: 2.00cm 

Anders


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## maxilux (Feb 21, 2009)

They call it 18650, i think with 5mm more length you get problems in many Flashlights. Then i must 20700 ?


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## phantom23 (Feb 21, 2009)

Their description is not very accurate (no proper size for most products, some 18650s are 8x3cm...). Proper thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/217485&page=3


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## monkeyboy (Feb 21, 2009)

Yeah, I've noticed that the descriptions and measurements on KD are often inaccurate.


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## orbital (Feb 23, 2009)

maxilux said:


> Anyone tested this:
> 
> http://kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=6813
> 
> 3000mAh ??? can it be ?



+

I hope it isn't a bull$hit specification item designed for fleaBay,..still interesting.


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## phantom23 (Feb 23, 2009)

Post 69:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/217485&page=3


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## orbital (Feb 23, 2009)

phantom23 said:


> Post 69:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/217485&page=3



+

thanks


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## Fallingwater (Feb 23, 2009)

They are twice as expensive as 2.5Ah Trustfires from DX. For 500mAh added capacity and a size incompatible with most lights. Thanks, but no thanks.


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## cernobila (Feb 24, 2009)

Fired an email to Jerry at Kaidomain to clarify some questions......bit of luck we will have some answers in the next day or so......


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## worldedit (Feb 24, 2009)

I ordered the unprotected version and got an email a few days later. They said the cells arent produced any more and i should order the protected version. I already have the grey trustfire 2400mah cells everyone recommends. They perform pretty bad. 1600mah and high internal resistance. I hope those 3000mah will turn out better.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 24, 2009)

phantom23 said:


> Post 69:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/217485&page=3


 
hey guys don't hope they will perform better, they won't!!

LOOK :wave:


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## cernobila (Feb 24, 2009)

Well, I had a good look at the graph of all the cells and what I was interested in was the performance of the AW 18650 2200mAh cell. Not sure what to make of that.....the Ultrafire 3000mAh cells were very similar in performance and had higher numbers than the AW cell. If they would fire up the WA 1111 and WA 1185 bulbs as well as the AW cells, then I see nothing wrong with the UF's.

Pity we don't see such graphs showing the other cells such as the Sanyo, Samsung, Panasonic, WE and Pila.......but then again its too early to say......


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## LIGHTSMAD (Feb 24, 2009)




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## Fallingwater (Feb 24, 2009)

worldedit said:


> I ordered the unprotected version and got an email a few days later. They said the cells arent produced any more and i should order the protected version. I already have the grey trustfire 2400mah cells everyone recommends. They perform pretty bad. 1600mah and high internal resistance. I hope those 3000mah will turn out better.


Trustfires don't usually perform badly. Have them replaced. DX will usually ship replacements for you if you tell them your cells are defective in a usefully short time after having received them.


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## Jay T (Feb 24, 2009)

cernobila said:


> Well, I had a good look at the graph of all the cells and what I was interested in was the performance of the AW 18650 2200mAh cell. Not sure what to make of that.....the Ultrafire 3000mAh cells were very similar in performance and had higher numbers than the AW cell. If they would fire up the WA 1111 and WA 1185 bulbs as well as the AW cells, then I see nothing wrong with the UF's.
> 
> Pity we don't see such graphs showing the other cells such as the Sanyo, Samsung, Panasonic, WE and Pila.......but then again its too early to say......



Yea, the UF 3000s look good, for a low current draw LED. 

For a hotwire they ain't too promising. Look at the voltage they deliver. At 1A they hold their voltage as good as the other cells, but, at 2A they put out the lowest voltage. That dosn't inspire me as to their expected performance at 3A+


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## Tohuwabohu (Feb 24, 2009)

I bought a pair of the UltraFire 3000mAh batteries from hkequipment.net.
The came in a clear plastic case.






They have nearly the same diameter as my 18650 from AW but are about 1mm longer.
They just fit in my Jetbeam Jet-III Pro but the end of the battery is flush with the end of the battery tube.

I did discharge tests at 1A and 2A on these batteries.




Ultrafire protcted 3000mAh, Trustfire unprotected 2500mAh, Trustfire protected 2400mAh, Cytac protected 2200mAh (flat top), AW protected 2200mAh and 4 KD 1950mAh.





They look quite good at 1A discharge current.





At 2A discharge current they don't look as good.
The capacity is well below the 1A discharge value and the voltage is lower than that of the other batteries (I did not test all of my crappy blue ones from KD at 2A).

I'm not sure if I wil do a test at 3A as I don't have any flashlight with a current draw that high.
But I already started a test at 0.5A


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 25, 2009)

ok, well, ähhmmm let's forget the ultrafire's :thumbsdow

just stick to THIS :bow:


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## phantom23 (Feb 25, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> ok, well, ähhmmm let's forget the ultrafire's :thumbsdow


 At 0,5A standard discharge rate capacity should be around 2,7Ah which is nice.


Whitedog1 said:


> just stick to THIS :bow:


Unprotected, expensive, limited quantity... (and discharged @0,5A!)


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## monkeyboy (Feb 25, 2009)

Thanks for those tests Tohuwabohu :twothumbs looks like these will be great for lower drain flashlights. I think I'll probably stick to AW's for high drain and direct drive LEDs due to the flatter discharge curve.


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## xpea (Feb 25, 2009)

phantom23 said:


> At 0,5A standard discharge rate capacity should be around 2,7Ah which is nice.
> 
> Unprotected, expensive, limited quantity... (and discharged @0,5A!)


2.7ah with how many discharges ? it will last 3 months ? 6 months ? 9 months ?then  start to lose their capacity as usual with poor ultrafire quality/reliability ?

unprotected > not a real issue if you know how to use them or if your equipment has protection circuit. If your are not sure or if you don't know, better of course to not buy it.
expensive > same price range as the "false" 3000mah Ultrafire so with much much better performance/quality/reliability/price ratio !!!
limited quantity > not at all anymore :naughty:
discharge rate > how much you want to bet that the Panas are much better than the ultrafire at 1 and 2A ? 

edit: pardon me phantom, I did not wanted to be offensive, but it's beyond me someone compares ultrafire to Panasonic cells


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## phantom23 (Feb 26, 2009)

I didn't know the price, UF costs $8,5 each(+battery holder) so it's nice price for genuine Panasonic (what about shipping?).
About protection - when my equipment doesn't have built in protection (only one flashlight has one) it is an issue. Do I have to carry DMM and check battery voltage after every use? 
I have good opinion about cheap cells - 3 years ago I bought some no-name protected 18650 cells from KD. I still use them and they're still seems to be over 2000mAh.
About discharge rate - I don't want to bet but I'd really like to know how will they perform at higher currents.
I don't want to glorify Ultrafires but I just noticed they did significant step forward.


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## MattK (Feb 26, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> hey guys don't hope they will perform better, they won't!!
> 
> LOOK :wave:



Uh the link you provide clearly shows that they significantly outperform all of the other batteries. 

Sure, they're not 3000mah, certainly not at 1A discharge (IEC standard for li-ion is .5A BTW), but they would seem to be the highest capacity protected cell available.

Tohuwabohu - would you be able to post those discharge charts at a higher resolution please? I'm having trouble differentiating the colors. Also looking forward to the .5A results. TIA!


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## phantom23 (Feb 26, 2009)

MattK said:


> Sure, they're not 3000mah, certainly not at 1A discharge (IEC standard for li-ion is .5A BTW), but they would seem to be *the highest capacity protected cell available*.


:thumbsup:


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## Tohuwabohu (Feb 26, 2009)

At 0.5A it is difficult to test more than one battery per day.
I can only test one battery at a time and I don't want to do it when I'm out at work.
This is what I could do up to now:






My previous measurements of these batteries at 1A and 2A scaled to the same size:










All 4 of my Trustfire batteries are nearly as new as the Ultafires.
The Cytacs are older, I bought them together with the Olight M20 when it was released.
The AW18650 is about 10 months old, it is the oldest 18650 that I own.
I'm not sure when I bought the 4 blue 18650s from KD. The have never been as good as my other 18650s and I have not used them very often.


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## phantom23 (Feb 26, 2009)

Very small difference between 0,5 and 1A discharge (AW has even less capacity!). Interesting.:thinking:


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## EngrPaul (Feb 26, 2009)

Trustfire UP 2500 mAh remains my choice based on what I see.


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## seaside (Feb 26, 2009)

EngrPaul said:


> Trustfire UP 2500 mAh remains my choice based on what I see.


 
Darn, I ordered another trustfire 2400mAh. 

I was bit worried about this ultrafire 3000mAH being 20700 rather than 18650. Looks like its bigger than normal 18650 to me.


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## MattK (Feb 26, 2009)

Tohuwabohu - Great job! :twothumbs:

Thanks for taking the time to do the .5A discharge tes and for the bigger pictures!


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## maxilux (Feb 27, 2009)

Thanks to all, i think i do not need them


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## phantom23 (Mar 18, 2009)

Lermite's graphs posted on DX forum here:









Ultrafires are great at lower currents but not so good over 3A. I think they're more suitable for LED lights. BTW, I was impressed when I saw Trustfires 2400mAh noirs (sku 20392) performance.


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## NonSenCe (Mar 19, 2009)

ordered those black ones last night without reading this thread. got lucky choosing obviously. hah. 

kinda believed their word for true 2400mah..hhehh.

those blue ones havent disappointed me yet. any steady runtime beyond hour is still amazing to me! hah


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## BoarHunter (Mar 20, 2009)

I just rebuilt a battery pack for my HP laptop using the blue Trustfire non protected flat top (a must because of length constraint) SKU 6979 (cost 24 USD).
May be it is why they are the most expensive in DX, battery pack are so god damn expensive and no warranty as to when they have been manufactured.

So far so good, hope they hold in time.

I am suprised that the "black" ones perform better ! Luck ?

Any idea who the real manufacturer is ? Gray market or lots that don't meet AQL and sold at bargain price ?
The technology involved precludes production in sweatshops.



Funny they are all called xxxFIRE, to sound like Surefire of course but 'fire' in the name of such touchy batteries as these LiIon is not the best choice IMO.


As for the remarks regarding sizes errors, often it is because some guy converts the original measure in these funny "inches" then an other guy comes in and puzzled by these strange units converts back to mm all this done with the appropriate roundings and conversion errors !


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## Lermite (Mar 20, 2009)

phantom23 said:


> Lermite's graphs posted on DX forum...


I was about to post these tests here it but you made it for me. Thanks for the work


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## Lermite (Mar 20, 2009)

BoarHunter said:


> I am suprised that the "black" ones perform better ! Luck ?


Luck has nothing to do (as in any other case, but that's another problem  ). The difference comes from the internal resistance of the batteries. A lower resistance is better.
The blue Trustfire seems to have a low resistance.
The new black ones seems to have an even lower resistance.
But the Ultrafire 3000 mAh seems to have a quite bigger internal resistance that generates big loss in the battery at high currents.


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## richardcpf (Mar 21, 2009)

These would do the best job powering 2x18650 lights multi-led or 1x18650 single led lights. They also work better when used with regulated lights, since the fast voltage drop will do a huge effect in direct driving.

Looking at the graph, this is my veredict:

-Red ultrafires are the best when load is around 1A. Lower is better.
-Blue trustfires are better than the RED uf when the load is about 3A or higher.
-Black trustfires are overall better than the blue tf, specially in high current draws.

I never use 18650 cells with over 1.5A draw, so the reds are just perfect.


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## Lermite (Mar 22, 2009)

richardcpf said:


> Blue trustfires are better than the RED uf when the load is about 3A or higher...


I think your 3A are quite optimistic.
I writed 1.2A, 3.5A... but this current is only the one at the start of the test wich is made by discharging the battery into a fixes resistance. This makes the current to drop, following the battery voltage.
Thus, my result at "3.5A" is not the result of a test at a constant current 3.5A but only a max of 3.5A. The mean current is quite lower, around 3A.
Thats why I think the treshold between red UF and blue TF is rather between 1.5 and 2A.
I'll do the test at 1.7A (max) to verify it.


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## write2dgray (Mar 29, 2009)

Thanks for the hard work and time running these tests to help buyers make informed decisions. I'll stick with the cheaper 2500s for now.

- David


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## FLT MEDIC (Mar 29, 2009)

Many thanks for sharing and posting your test results, much appreciated!


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## Lermite (Apr 1, 2009)

I updated the array values by adding the test of the Ultrafire 3000 mAh at 1.7A and 2.4A (still by discharging into resistances).
The results allow me to estimate the Ultrafire 3000 mAh is better than other 18650 above 2A and gets worse at higher current.
Off course, this "2A" is approximative since I have only two battery to test, but I'm confident.


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## lctorana (Apr 2, 2009)

*New 18650 with 3000mAh*

Thanks for this, I'm definitely getting these. I have a 0.3A use for them, where their extra capacity and extra length will make them an outright godsend. And at 0.3A, I might well see the full 3000mAh.

And, they are now also available from another vendor whose name we dare not mention. Order placed.


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## Lermite (Apr 2, 2009)

Take care that the Ultrafire 3000 mAh is a bit larger than other 18650s. That's why It can not fit in any flashlight.
I'm trying to keep this compatibily array updated:
http://www.puissanceled.com/compatibilite_accus.php?fa=18650
Off course, if anybody has any data that I could add to this array or the on below, I would be grateful to receive these datas by PM.
http://www.puissanceled.com/compatibilite_accus.php?fa=16340


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## lctorana (Apr 2, 2009)

But I can.


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## jirik_cz (Apr 2, 2009)

Lermite said:


> I updated the array values by adding the test of the Ultrafire 3000 mAh at 1.7A and 2.4A (still by discharging into resistances).
> The results allow me to estimate the Ultrafire 3000 mAh is better than other 18650 above 2A and gets worse at higher current.
> Off course, this "2A" is approximative since I have only two battery to test, but I'm confident.



From my testing you will get better runtimes when the current consumption is lower than 1A. If it is more than 1A then other 2400-2500mAh 18650 cells are better.


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## ichoderso (Apr 4, 2009)

real capacity from BCR 3000mAh protected tested with ALC 8500:
charging voltage is 4,2V
discharging stop at 3,0V
@1A
#1: 2718mAh
#2: 2682mAh
@2A
#1: 2435mAh
#2: 2246mAh


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## picard (Apr 4, 2009)

Is the red ultrafire suitable for the Tiablo Ace light? 

I want a highest capacity battery for the Tiablo light.


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## Lermite (Apr 4, 2009)

The 3000 mAh Ultrafire fits the Tiablo A9 and A10, thus they should fit the ACE but I can't be sure because I know nobody who made this test.
Even if they fit, the runtime will be shorter than with sku.20392 or sku.5790 from DX because the ACE must draw more than 3A from an single 18650 and at this current, the 3000mAh Ultrafire real capacity drops quite lower than the Trustfire 18650's.


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## picard (Apr 4, 2009)

Lermite said:


> The 3000 mAh Ultrafire fits the Tiablo A9 and A10, thus they should fit the ACE but I can't be sure because I know nobody who made this test.
> Even if they fit, the runtime will be shorter than with sku.20392 or sku.5790 from DX because the ACE must draw more than 3A from an single 18650 and at this current, the 3000mAh Ultrafire real capacity drops quite lower than the Trustfire 18650's.




can you give me link to that DX battery? I don't know that one. Is the sku a part number for ultrafire? I am confused.


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## Lermite (Apr 4, 2009)

The "sku" is the unique number that identifies an item on DX.
The adress of sku.20392 is http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20392
This sku is the "Trustfire 2400 mAh noirs" of my tests above.


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## jirik_cz (Apr 5, 2009)

picard said:


> Is the red ultrafire suitable for the Tiablo Ace light?
> 
> I want a highest capacity battery for the Tiablo light.



The red ultrafires fit the Tiablo ACE. They are not bad, but definitelly not the best cells for lights with higher power consumption. Check my runtime graphs here and here.


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## metlarules (May 20, 2009)

Anyone know if the red 18650's fit in a Solarforce L2?


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## phantom23 (May 30, 2009)

metlarules said:


> Anyone know if the red 18650's fit in a Solarforce L2?



I have L2, I'll tell when I get my TK11 with UF 3000mAh cell ($78 for both).


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## picard (May 30, 2009)

Lermite said:


> The "sku" is the unique number that identifies an item on DX.
> The adress of sku.20392 is http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20392
> This sku is the "Trustfire 2400 mAh noirs" of my tests above.




this ultrafire has only 2400 mAH. the power level seem pretty low. Can it run the Tiablo ACE at full power ?


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## Lermite (May 30, 2009)

Wich Ultrafire are you speaking about?
The black Trustfire "only" have 2400 mAh, but their internal resistance is quite lower than many batteries such as Ultrafire 3000 mAh whose a big part of the energy is lost inside the battery because of this internal resistance.
That means the power, depending on the output voltage of the battery, will be higher with the Trustfire 2400 mAh than with the Ultrafire 3000 mAh. Only the runtime will be higher with the Ultrafire 3000 mAh, but only if the current is low.
By example, the runtime of the MG L-Mini II in high mode is exactly the same with these two batteries: about 2:15 before the flashlight switches to low mode. The Ultrafire only make the runtime longer once the low mode is switched, because the lower current makes the loss lower into the battery.


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## etc (Jun 25, 2009)

Looks like AW's new P-18650 2600 mAh is a better choice? And that 3,000 mAh is a bit inflated?


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## Lermite (Jun 26, 2009)

AW 2600 are a bit better than Trustfire 2400 and 2500, but their price is thrice higher: too expensive in regard of the gap of performance.
The Ultrafire 3000 remains better than AW 2600 at low power, and the worst at high power.
The design and size of AW 2600 can be a problem with a few flashlights, because they are longer than Trustfire's, and their positive pin if shorter than the battery edge. So, they can't work in flashlights that do not have a spring for the positive contact.


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## txg (Jun 26, 2009)

how complicated is it to remove the protection circuit of these cells? I'm asking because these cells seem to be absolutely ideal for using them as replacement cells in a worn-out notebook battery. 

in my ibm x31, there are 6 cells in 3s2p configuration, and power usage is normally around 10w, which means about 0.5A current per cell. peak power is around 20w, so peak current is in the 1A range. 

and that's exactly the range in which these 3000mAh cells are great performers.

but i guess the cells will be too long with protection circuit.


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## Lermite (Jun 26, 2009)

18650 Ultrafire 3000 mAh exist in both versions: protected and unprotected.
Byuing the unprotected version would be more easy than buying the protected one then removing the protection PCB.


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## txg (Jun 26, 2009)

i know that, but it seems like the unprotected version isn't available any more. at least i wasn't able to find it at dx/kd.


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## Lermite (Jun 26, 2009)

OK, I didn't know unprotected's one were not available any longer.
Removing the PCB seems difficult to me, because not only the PCB has to be removed, but also the conductive wire that links the PCB to the other edge of the battery. That means you'll have to remove all the plastic packaging of the battery and I don't know what you could set instead.


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## Mjolnir (Jun 26, 2009)

I ordered a pair of the black 2400 Mah trustfires to use in an ROP, so I will see how they hold up to the load. 
I have been using the blue 2500 Mah cells for a while in my T10L, and they have been pretty good. In regulated lights I think the ultrafires would be worse, since the circuit will draw higher current when the voltage level drops.


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## Splunk_Au (Jun 29, 2009)

Dunno about the other 18650 from kaidomain, but the recent pink colored 2600mAh ones are almost as good as the AW 2600mAh 18650. Better still, they have button tops!  There was a recent test here with the pink ones.


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## bncrshr77 (Aug 7, 2009)

Ok, I've read all the thread and still need some clarification. My lights draw about 1 amp on high so according to the discharge scales the 3000mah batts will do a great job for me?


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## Lermite (Aug 7, 2009)

Yes, they should.
But take care to their size. They are one of the larger and longer 18650 and then don't fit every flashlight.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 8, 2009)

Did anyone's 3000mAh Ultrafire leaked? Two of my friends reported leaking after a few cycles. The batteries were not over-charged/discharged or short circuited...


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## Corvette6769 (Aug 19, 2009)

Tohuwabohu said:


> At 0.5A it is difficult to test more than one battery per day.
> I can only test one battery at a time and I don't want to do it when I'm out at work.
> This is what I could do up to now:
> 
> ...


 
*What test equipment and software program did you use for these tests?*


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## Tohuwabohu (Aug 19, 2009)

Corvette6769 said:


> *What test equipment and software program did you use for these tests?*


I use an ELV ALC 3000 PC charger to record the data and OpenOffice Calc to plot the graphs.
I'm not too positive about the firmware of the charger and the 'ChargeEasy' software.
But the test readings are repeatable and good enough to compare different batteries.


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## jirik_cz (Sep 28, 2009)

Another report of leaking Ultrafire BRC18650 3000mAh.


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## Corvette6769 (Mar 12, 2011)

*Here are some missing posts I received via email notification subscription Friday, November 12, 2010 1:02 AM CST. *

*There may be other posts, but these are all of the notifications I received between 1-2-11 and 3-12-11. *

*Unfortunately, none of my posts are here because the forum does not send copies of posts to the poster via email notification, so unless others here can fill in, my posts are lost forever. *

*Since I assumed this forum had backups of its backups (as all professional forums do), I never saw a need to keep copies of my own posts.*


These following posts were made to the thread:
************
Re: New 18650 with 3000mAh from KD
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3592608#post3592608
Posted by: Torian
On: 11-11-2010 01:39 PM
How are you able to test the amp draw of a flashlight? I can't seem to find this information anywhere for my ultrafire RL-2088. This would be an important piece of info, since if it is around 1A I would want the 3000mAh cells, but if it's around 2-3A, I would be looking at a 2500mAh.
************
Re: New 18650 with 3000mAh from KD
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3592689#post3592689
Posted by: tandem
On: 11-11-2010 02:50 PM

---Quote (Originally by Torian)---
How are you able to test the amp draw of a flashlight?
---End Quote---
You can estimate it based on comparable lights with the same emitter.
Or, if you have a digital multi-meter (and you really should if you are using li-ion cells), follow this photo-loaded guide by member HKJ and send him a thumbs up for a job well done: <a href="https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/236906">Simple guide to using a DMM for measurements</a>
************
Re: New 18650 with 3000mAh from KD
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3592702#post3592702
Posted by: Torian
On: 11-11-2010 03:01 PM
Sorry I'm new to this, but are you referring to the hex LED that this light uses? I do not have any hardware to measure this. I'm not even sure what a comparable light would be.
************
Re: New 18650 with 3000mAh from KD
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3592754#post3592754
Posted by: tandem
On: 11-11-2010 03:46 PM
Torian, see <a href="https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/301464">your other thread</a> for more.
************
Re: New 18650 with 3000mAh from KD
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3592764#post3592764
Posted by: Torian
On: 11-11-2010 03:54 PM

---Quote (Originally by tandem)---
Torian, see <a href="https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/301464">your other thread</a> for more.
---End Quote---
I'm asking about the methods of measuring amperage draw for my light. If you are implying that these threads are redundant, they are not. Thanks for your input.
EDIT: My bad jumping to conclusions! I misinterpreted your comment.
************
Re: New 18650 with 3000mAh from KD
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3592879#post3592879
Posted by: tandem
On: 11-11-2010 05:22 PM
No, I wasn't implying that, nor is there any reason for you to jump to that conclusion. It takes a while to compose a thoughtful post, but I'd put a link in here first before finishing up in your other thread (and dealing with kids and lunch and life in general).
---Quote (Originally by Torian)---
I'm asking about the methods of measuring amperage draw for my light.
---End Quote---
Understood. Methods for measuring current draw I'd already directed you to an excellent tutorial on the subject, answered here since that isn't specific to a flashlight.
---Quote (Originally by Torian)---
I can't seem to find this [ed: current draw] information anywhere for my ultrafire RL-2088[/B].
---End Quote---
I put the answer to that question in your other thread because that thread is specifically about your RL-2088.


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