# New Energizer e2 Advance and Ultimate Lithium



## ltiu (Aug 9, 2008)

Passed by a local Sam's Club near 77077. 

Found a new type of battery called the Energizer Advance Lithium. Yellowish packaging. Manufacturer claims it lasts 4x longer than Energizer Max. At Sam's Club, costs $14+ for a pack of 12. 10 year shelf life.

The original e2 Lithium (bluish packaging) has now been re-branded Energizer Ultimate Lithium and claims 8x longer than Energizer Max. The original e2 Lithium before Advance Lithium came out claims 7x longer. This one cost $19+ for a pack of 12 (same original price). 15 year shelf life.


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## Black Rose (Aug 9, 2008)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/203850


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## ltiu (Aug 9, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/203850



I would like to clarify. Ultimate Lithium does not look new. It's just the re-branded original e2 Lithium.

The new battery here is the Advance Lithium. Which is a lesser brethren to the Ultimate Lithium.

Advance Lithium is lesser than Ultimate because: 

Lasts 4x longer vs. 8x longer (compared to Energizer Max).
10 year shelf life vs. 15 year shelf life.
Cheaper.

Looks like Energizer is filling-in a gap in their product line between their longer life alkaline (their e2 Titanium brand) and their original Lithium.


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## ltiu (Aug 22, 2008)

I wonder how the new Energizer Advanced Lithium vs the old Energizer Lithium vs the new Energizer Ultimate Lithium compares in terms of performance, runtime, etc?

Who here has done comparisons?

If I want to make a donation to someone here who can do this work and post the results, who would you guys nominate, recommend, vote for, volunteer? No BS.


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## 4sevens (Aug 22, 2008)

ltiu said:


> I wonder how the new Energizer Advanced Lithium vs the old Energizer Lithium vs the new Energizer Ultimate Lithium compares in terms of performance, runtime, etc?
> 
> Who here has done comparisons?
> 
> If I want to make a donation to someone here who can do this work and post the results, who would you guys nominate, recommend, vote for, volunteer? No BS.



We will see..

I've sent a pack of Advanced and Ultimates for chevrofreak to test


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## MattK (Aug 24, 2008)

Energizer Ultimate Lithium is the original standard L91/L92 'renamed'

Energizer Advanced Lithium is the new product. My understanding is that it uses an earlier version of the L91 technology so it has less capacity and shelf life as a result. When L91's first came out like 15 years ago they were ~1700mah and are now like 2900mah. The Advanced Lithium product is to replace the Titanium line of Energizer batteries.

I suspect that the primary motivation in offering this new, less expensive (about 10-12%) product is primarily to fend off the forthcoming lithium primary batteries that Rayovac willl be offering relatively soon.


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## Black Rose (Aug 24, 2008)

MattK said:


> I suspect that the primary motivation in offering this new, less expensive (about 10-12%) product is primarily to fend off the forthcoming lithium primary batteries that Rayovac willl be offering relatively soon.


After the lawsuit brought on by Energizer is resolved :sick2:


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## MattK (Aug 24, 2008)

LOL

Actually, I think they'll be released before the lawsuit is resolved. Rumor is that ROV expects to win or they never would have even intro'd the product and thus, barring an injunction, isn't concerned about extending damages - since they expect to win.


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## Black Rose (Aug 24, 2008)

I think someone discovered that Energizers patent expires/expired this year. 

It would be nice to have an alternative (i.e. introduce some competition and break the monopoly Energizer has on those particular cells).


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## MattK (Aug 24, 2008)

The factory that makes our Titanium CR123A's makes the ROV Primaries so I can get them in a heartbeat - I've just always been afraid fo being sued into the ground.


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## ltiu (Aug 26, 2008)

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/ea91.PDF

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/ea92.pdf


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## ltiu (Aug 26, 2008)

MattK said:


> My understanding is that it uses an earlier version of the L91 technology so it has less capacity and shelf life as a result. When L91's first came out like 15 years ago they were ~1700mah and are now like 2900mah.



http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/ea91.PDF

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

If you compare the new EA91 vs the old L91, the Lithium content is the same. But the discharge rating is less.


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## ltiu (Aug 26, 2008)

MattK said:


> The Advanced Lithium product is to replace the Titanium line of Energizer batteries.



One big advantage is that Advanced Lithium will not leak like Titanium does. I can leave these batteries inside my flashlights long term and not be too worried.


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## ltiu (Aug 26, 2008)

MattK said:


> My understanding is that it uses an earlier version of the L91 technology so it has less capacity and shelf life as a result. When L91's first came out like 15 years ago they were ~1700mah and are now like 2900mah.



I think the Ultimate Lithium is still around 2900mah judging from the tech specs ... http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/ea91.PDF

Look at the tape player industry standard test. 

100ma for 1 hr per day. Service hours = >30 hours total. Exactly the same as an L91 ... http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/l91.pdf

In fact, if you look at all the tests between the two closely, all the tests look the same!


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## White_Shadow (Aug 26, 2008)

how many mah is the original energizer e2?


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## ltiu (Aug 26, 2008)

White_Shadow said:


> how many mah is the original energizer e2?



Answered in a previous post:



MattK said:


> When L91's first came out like 15 years ago they were ~1700mah and are now like 2900mah.


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## 4sevens (Aug 26, 2008)

ltiu said:


> One big advantage is that Advanced Lithium will not leak like Titanium does. I can leave these batteries inside my flashlights long term and not be too worried.


That is a VERY BIG advantage. I can't begin to tell you how many walkmans and 
flashlights have died a horrible acidic death from leaky alkalines!


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## Black Rose (Aug 26, 2008)

MattK said:


> Energizer Ultimate Lithium is the original standard L91/L92 'renamed'


There is one minor difference between the L91 and these new Ultimate lithiums. 

The Ultimates say "Last up to 8x longer..." vs "Last up to 7x longer ..." for the L91s like you offer.

Probably just those marketing folks putting a new spin on it...I used to work with some marketing folks...interesting experience to say the least.


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## ltiu (Aug 26, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> There is one minor difference between the L91 and these new Ultimate lithiums.
> 
> The Ultimates say "Last up to 8x longer..." vs "Last up to 7x longer ..." for the L91s like you offer.
> 
> Probably just those marketing folks putting a new spin on it...I used to work with some marketing folks...interesting experience to say the least.



Well, when they said lasts up to 7x, they compared it to regular alkaline. Read the packaging of the original e2 Lithium.

Then when they said 8x longer, they compared it against Energizer Max. Read the packaging of the new Ultimate.

Energizer Max is known to under-perform relative to other regular alkalines:

http://lights.chevrofreak.com/runtimes/AA cells.png


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## Burgess (Aug 27, 2008)

Very interesting thread here.


_


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

MattK said:


> The factory that makes our Titanium CR123A's makes the ROV Primaries so I can get them in a heartbeat - I've just always been afraid fo being sued into the ground.


 


I'm confused. Didn't you once mention that your Titanium CR123A cells are Made in China with tight Q.C.? So if the ROV CR123A cells are made in the same place, that means they are also Made in China. But I've seen ROV cells with "Made in the USA" labels.

Then again, perhaps you weren't refering to _CR123A_ cells, from ROV?


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## MattK (Sep 1, 2008)

The ROV Lithium cells are made in China in the same factory that makes our Titanium CR123A's. Most other ROV batteries are made in the USA.


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## Monocrom (Sep 2, 2008)

MattK said:


> The ROV Lithium cells are made in China in the same factory that makes our Titanium CR123A's. Most other ROV batteries are made in the USA.


 
I appreciate the clarification. :thanks:


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## MattK (Sep 2, 2008)

Sure thing.


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## Bimmerboy (Sep 2, 2008)

4sevens said:


> We will see..
> 
> I've sent a pack of Advanced and Ultimates for chevrofreak to test



Excellent, 4sevens! :thumbsup: Can hardly wait to see the results.


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## SureAddicted (Sep 6, 2008)

I'm personally staying away from Energizer batteries. Got told an interesting story today. Ever noticed why there are a flood of energizers on ebay?


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## Monocrom (Sep 6, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> I'm personally staying away from Energizer batteries. Got told an interesting story today. Ever noticed why there are a flood of energizers on ebay?


 
Counterfeit batteries?? :thinking:


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## ltiu (Sep 6, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> I'm personally staying away from Energizer batteries. Got told an interesting story today. Ever noticed why there are a flood of energizers on ebay?



Tell us, we want to know why?


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## WildChild (Sep 6, 2008)

MattK said:


> The ROV Lithium cells are made in China in the same factory that makes our Titanium CR123A's. Most other ROV batteries are made in the USA.



Is that recent? My Rayovac CR123A are made in USA.


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## Black Rose (Sep 6, 2008)

WildChild said:


> Is that recent? My Rayovac CR123A are made in USA.


I believe Matt was referring to the ROV AA & AAA lithium batteries that are going to show up in North America soon and not the ROV CR123A cells.


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## Monocrom (Sep 6, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> I believe Matt was referring to the ROV AA & AAA lithium batteries that are going to show up in North America soon and not the ROV CR123A cells.


 
Yes, that's correct. Matt did mention that that's the only one from ROV that are not made in America.


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## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

Well not exactly...I know the AA/AAA Lithium aren't made here. I know the consumer alkalines and CR123A's are made here. Rayovac has a large line and I'd guess there's other products made all over the world - especially since they now have a piece of Varta I'd guess they might have some cells made in Germany or UK or Japan....

If you look at any large mfr you'll find that they're building product all over the world. This is true of Duracell, Energizer, Sanyo, Sony, Panasonic, and every other big brand that I'm aware of.


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## 4sevens (Sep 6, 2008)

MattK said:


> Well not exactly...I know the AA/AAA Lithium aren't made here. I know the consumer alkalines and CR123A's are made here....


Not true. The Energizer Lithium AA/AAA's that we sell at 4sevens.com have
the following on their packaging:

Made in USA for Energeizer Holdings, Inc, St Louis, MO


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## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

4sevens said:


> Not true. The Energizer Lithium AA/AAA's that we sell at 4sevens.com have
> the following on their packaging:
> 
> Made in USA for Energeizer Holdings, Inc, St Louis, MO



That's great but we're discussing the Rayovac Lithium AA/AA product, not Energizer's.


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## Black Rose (Sep 7, 2008)

MattK said:


> Rayovac has a large line and I'd guess there's other products made all over the world - especially since they now have a piece of Varta I'd guess they might have some cells made in Germany or UK or Japan....


The ROV alkaline 9V cells I've been getting for the last several years are made in Malaysia.

A pair of ROV AA alkaline cells that came with my Rayovac Sportsman Xtreme (Nuwai) light were made in China.


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## Lynx_Arc (Sep 7, 2008)

It is possible that the batteries on ebay are older style lithiums as they did update the graphics and some places I have seen close out out stock when there is a change in the look of the new.


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## ltiu (Sep 7, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> It is possible that the batteries on ebay are older style lithiums as they did update the graphics and some places I have seen close out out stock when there is a change in the look of the new.



The best way to tell is to look at the expiry dates. I have seen Lithiums on eBay with red jackets and expiry of 2012.


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## LEDninja (Sep 18, 2008)

There was a mail order company that carried AA lithium primaries made in China. Those batteries have a bad safety record. About 1/3 of exploding battery threads on CPF deal with them. If those are the batteries ROV is planning on importing I'd be leery.


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## ltiu (Sep 18, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> There was a mail order company that carried AA lithium primaries made in China. Those batteries have a bad safety record. About 1/3 of exploding battery threads on CPF deal with them. If those are the batteries ROV is planning on importing I'd be leery.



Just in-time for Halloween fireworks!


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## Jauno (Oct 1, 2008)

4sevens said:


> We will see..
> 
> I've sent a pack of Advanced and Ultimates for chevrofreak to test



We are waiting to see some results...


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## MorePower (Oct 1, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> The ROV alkaline 9V cells I've been getting for the last several years are made in Malaysia.
> 
> A pair of ROV AA alkaline cells that came with my Rayovac Sportsman Xtreme (Nuwai) light were made in China.



Those AA cells were made in China at a ROV owned plant.


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## ltiu (Oct 1, 2008)

Jauno said:


> We are waiting to see some results...


 
Where are the results?

Don't tell me those batteries are still going and going and going that Chevrofreak is not done with the test yet and it's been months now.


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## Jauno (Oct 2, 2008)

ltiu said:


> Where are the results?
> 
> There are no results...yet...
> 
> ...


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## paintballdad (Oct 3, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> The ROV alkaline 9V cells I've been getting for the last several years are made in Malaysia.
> 
> A pair of ROV AA alkaline cells that came with my Rayovac Sportsman Xtreme (Nuwai) light were made in China.


 
I've used ROV UltraPro batteries exclusively at work in both 9v and AA sizes. They have always had Made In USA stamped on them. Have also purchased ROV packaged lithium coin cells and find Varta branded cells in the package. They have always been a quality and reliable product. I prefer not to use Energizers but have used Duracell Procells when the ROV's are not in stock. Glad to here ROV is gonna give Energizer a run for their money!

P.S. Does anyone know if ROV makes the Costco/Kirkland batteries? Thanks.


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## Black Rose (Oct 3, 2008)

paintballdad said:


> I've used ROV UltraPro batteries exclusively at work in both 9v and AA sizes. They have always had Made In USA stamped on them.


I've never seen the ROV UltraPro batteries up here, only the Maximum Plus. 



> P.S. Does anyone know if ROV makes the Costco/Kirkland batteries?


They appear to be Duracells. Take a look at the dimples on the bottom of the two cells on the left.






From Left to Right: Kirkland, Duracell, Panasonic Alkaline Plus, Rayovac Maximum Plus


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## Burgess (Oct 3, 2008)

Seems like "we" think the Costco alkaline batteries are mfg. by Duracell.


Can't say i've *ever* heard a bad word about 'em.

_


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## paintballdad (Oct 3, 2008)

Black Rose, the ROV UltraPro batteries are not for retail sale, they are only meant for trade sales. Duracell Procells are the same way. Sorry for the confusion.




Black Rose said:


> I've never seen the ROV UltraPro batteries up here, only the Maximum Plus.
> 
> 
> They appear to be Duracells. Take a look at the dimples on the bottom of the two cells on the left.
> ...


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## Mr Happy (Oct 3, 2008)

Just because a battery is made in the same factory and has the same physical appearance, it doesn't _necessarily_ mean it is made to the same specification. That said, the Kirkland cells do tend to come out very well in testing, so even if they are not the exact same spec as genuine Duracells they do still seem to be a good product.


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## djans1397 (Feb 22, 2009)

Now I'm confused. I need to buy some ultra longlasting lithiums to power up my Pelican flashlights that I bought for our Hospitals emregency backup lights. These will likely sit idle for years and I want them to work when needed. So what do you guys rec. for a SAFE an RELIABLE lithium that I can plug into these??? I'm confused about the Energizer e2's vs Ultimates vs Max. Is there another brand I should consider???

Thanks,
Dan


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## Black Rose (Feb 22, 2009)

In North America the Energizer Lithium primary batteries are currently the only option available to us.

Rayovac is attempting to bring their version to market, but the fine folks at Energizer are fighting it.

If you want an excellent deal on Energizer AA lithium cells, take a stroll over to the marketplace. 
These are the same as the Energizer e2 Ultimate lithiums and have an expiry date of 03/2023.

EDIT: I see you already found the thread on MP.


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## ltiu (Feb 22, 2009)

djans1397 said:


> Now I'm confused. I need to buy some ultra longlasting lithiums to power up my Pelican flashlights that I bought for our Hospitals emregency backup lights. These will likely sit idle for years and I want them to work when needed. So what do you guys rec. for a SAFE an RELIABLE lithium that I can plug into these??? I'm confused about the Energizer e2's vs Ultimates vs Max. Is there another brand I should consider???



Get this:

http://www.energizer.com/products/hightech-batteries/lithium/Pages/lithium-batteries.aspx

Ignore the rest.


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## djans1397 (Feb 22, 2009)

thanks guys for the help.

Dan


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## paulr (Feb 22, 2009)

djans1397 said:


> Now I'm confused. I need to buy some ultra longlasting lithiums to power up my Pelican flashlights that I bought for our Hospitals emregency backup lights. These will likely sit idle for years and I want them to work when needed. So what do you guys rec. for a SAFE an RELIABLE lithium that I can plug into these???



Letting the lights sit idle for years is simply not a good plan if someone's safety is depending on them. Inspect the flashlights annually (put it into your hospital's annual inspection checklist) and maybe replace the batteries every year at inspection time whether they need it or not. If you do replace them annually, it should be ok to use alkaline batteries. Among other things, the annual inspections will notice whether the flashlights are still where they are supposed to be. Also, if the flashlights are incans, lithium batteries may decrease reliability by making the bulbs pop sooner.


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## Mr Happy (Feb 22, 2009)

What paulr said. Also, in addition to the annual check list keep the lights in a visible place, for example in a (locked) glass-fronted cabinet so you always know they are there and have not taken a walk.


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## MicroE (Feb 22, 2009)

Do these lithium AA primaries offer any significant advantages over other chemistries in LED lights? I understand that they have a longer shelf life and weigh a little less, but is there any electrical advantage?


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## Mr Happy (Feb 22, 2009)

MicroE said:


> Do these lithium AA primaries offer any significant advantages over other chemistries in LED lights? I understand that they have a longer shelf life and weigh a little less, but is there any electrical advantage?


They have a higher open circuit voltage when new and can deliver more power than alkalines. Neither would be of much importance for LED lights unless they were power hungry beasts -- in which case NiMH rechargeables would be more economical.


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## djans1397 (Feb 22, 2009)

paulr said:


> Letting the lights sit idle for years is simply not a good plan if someone's safety is depending on them. Inspect the flashlights annually (put it into your hospital's annual inspection checklist) and maybe replace the batteries every year at inspection time whether they need it or not. If you do replace them annually, it should be ok to use alkaline batteries. Among other things, the annual inspections will notice whether the flashlights are still where they are supposed to be. Also, if the flashlights are incans, lithium batteries may decrease reliability by making the bulbs pop sooner.


 

Great idea! Just have to remember to do it!



Mr Happy said:


> What paulr said. Also, in addition to the annual check list keep the lights in a visible place, for example in a (locked) glass-fronted cabinet so you always know they are there and have not taken a walk.


 
Got it covered. Bought a Pelican 2480 light for the main work area. ALlowing us to find our way to the main stash of lights.








Dan


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## paulr (Feb 22, 2009)

djans1397 said:


> Great idea! Just have to remember to do it!


Don't rely on your memory, put it into the written checklist that gets worked through by your hospital's normal processes on its regular maintenance schedule. You DO have one of those lists, I hope.



> Got it covered. Bought a Pelican 2480 light for the main work area. ALlowing us to find our way to the main stash of lights.



That doesn't seem like serious emergency lighting. You want something like a Litebox power failure light:

http://www.brightguy.com/products/Streamlight_Litebox_Power_Failure.php






This is a wall mounted light plugged into AC current that keeps its battery pack charged. The light turns on automatically when the AC power goes out. In fact maybe you want a bunch of these instead of stashing AA-powered lights around.


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## djans1397 (Feb 22, 2009)

I 'll look into the lightbox by Pelican.

To clarify a few things. What happened one night was the power went out all across our small town of 3500. Well, the backup generator kicked in but failed to transfer the power... so no lights AND the wall box flood lights that sit at the nurses stations failed to turn on as well. I think it had something to do with the Barney Fife maintenance guys we have working for us. Anway, these have since been repaired, I hope.

So we do have some emergency lights as it is now, but as you can see above, even these are prone to failure. It got me thinking that we needed at least SOME other source of lights as well. I figured I could put my knowledge and addiction of lights to use and purchase some for the hospital. I mean, the gas powered generator is only as good as long as it has gas. Same for the wall lights. If some kind of natural disaster occurs and we're out of power for days, at least we have some other light source, providing that we have enough batteries.

Besides, all my coworkers know who to call when the lights go out in the town... as they did the night of the above... at 3am!!!

Dan


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## General Custer (Jul 21, 2009)

I purchased some Energizer Advanced Lithium EA91 1.5V AAs. I found they last no longer than regular Alkaline batteries in my Nikon CoolPix 3100. The e2 is a far superior battery.


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## Quension (Jan 29, 2010)

From the datasheets ltiu linked too, it looks like at a 1 amp drain rate the Ultimate lasts roughly twice as long as the Advanced. Did anyone ever complete tests with both types?


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## Luminescent (Feb 18, 2010)

Quension said:


> From the datasheets ltiu linked too, it looks like at a 1 amp drain rate the Ultimate lasts roughly twice as long as the Advanced. Did anyone ever complete tests with both types?



Huh?

From the data sheets, I read the constant current discharge capacity at 1 amp to be 

About 2950 mAh for the original L91

About 2000 mAh for the newer LA91

A little less than a 50% improvement NOT "twice".

But wait! Energizer also cleverly changed the discharge limit spec to hold the newer LA91 to a tougher 1 volt discharge cutoff vs. the more lax 0.9 volt cutoff for the old L91.

When this is factored in, either the original L91 would look a little worse (if also only rated down to 1.0 volts), or the new LA91 will look a little better (if also allowed to discharge the extra 0.1 down to 0.9)

So the REAL difference according to the spec sheets is even LESS than 50%.

At lower discharge rates below about 500mA there doesn't seem to be any difference at all!

Sounds like more of the same scammy games they play with Alkaline batteries.

Look at all the stupid Ultra-Super-Max-Extreme version Alkalines that cost three times as much for a battery that is really only 10% better.

Bottom line - wait for the real test data, and don't be surprised if there is really only a small difference.

Like others have said, I am also hopeing like hell that Rayovac or someone else will also start to market Lithium/Iron Disulfide AA and AAA batteries, so there will finally be some real compitition. Maybe then, Energizer will finally have to offer something approaching real value, instead of just these stupid BS marketing games.


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## Quension (Feb 22, 2010)

Luminescent said:


> From the data sheets, I read the constant current discharge capacity at 1 amp to be
> 
> About 2950 mAh for the original L91
> 
> ...



Whoops, you're right, I miscounted the lines when I was looking at the graphs before.



> But wait! Energizer also cleverly changed the discharge limit spec to hold the newer LA91 to a tougher 1 volt discharge cutoff vs. the more lax 0.9 volt cutoff for the old L91.



Where? Both constant current graphs show discharge to 1.0V. The only reference to a 0.9V discharge point I can find is in the mAh graphs for the L9_x_ batteries.



> At lower discharge rates below about 500mA there doesn't seem to be any difference at all!



Right, they're just suited for different uses.



> Like others have said, I am also hopeing like hell that Rayovac or someone else will also start to market Lithium/Iron Disulfide AA and AAA batteries, so there will finally be some real compitition. Maybe then, Energizer will finally have to offer something approaching real value, instead of just these stupid BS marketing games.



Rayovac tried in 2008, but Energizer still holds a patent in the US. I hear Philips also has similar batteries available elsewhere.


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