# Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod - Now with Nichia 219 Neautral 92 CR1



## ma_sha1 (Mar 21, 2012)

I would like to start a thread & see if there's anyone started modding the new Mag C leds yet?
I have some loose photos scatted around, on slight modding but have not committed to gut it open for some serious power. It's got potential to beat Surefire M3LT/M6LT with same TIR Beam.

Here is my ML100 2C cut-down to 1C, it now runs on 18650 for a couple month now. No issues. 






The stock light throws very well, but with a real tiny hot spot. I now converted the light to run on a large 45mm TIR lens, Gaggione LLC49R. 





If converted to XML 2.8Amp set-up, or even a XPG/2.0Amp set-up, this set-up has potential to go up against M3LT/M6LT. With same type of TIR beam. The beam in my light is nearly flawless, a good sized hotspot with no spill, just not enough intensity to my liking. 

Even just bump up the driving current on the stock XPE would be nice, but the driver & new electronic switch is a unchartered area. 

However, this is where tings gets iffy. The ML100 has a complex head that's not easy to convert to 
typical mag heat sink set-up.

I am wondering if anyone planning to take the first jump into this area? I am not interested in putting this 45mm lens in regular mag & a spacer, just doesn't look right to my.


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## Al Combs (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*



ma_sha1 said:


> However, this is where tings gets iffy. The ML100 has a complex head that's not easy to convert to
> typical mag heat sink set-up.
> 
> I am wondering if anyone planning to take the first jump into this area?
> I am not interested in putting this 45mm lens in regular mag & a spacer, just doesn't look right.


I'll bet everyone is waiting for you to show the rest us how it's done. You da Mag-Meister.:bow:

A little late to be useful here but if the electronic switch is the problem, what if the 1C conversion cut off the switch end of the battery tube to shorten it and put a regular McClicky in the tailcap? Here's a recently bumped Hill thread with a tailcap mod using hand tools.

Do you have pictures of what the problem is? I've never seen the inside of an ML-100. Is it just because they made the switch electronic?


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

I haven't taken it entirely apart yet. I've done mag tail switch before, it's not a problem. The guts is very complex, I am not sure I can put it back if I tore it apart. The easiest way to go is probably toss all the guts & put in normal mag C heat-sink & normal mag C switch with some small grinding to fit.

The shell of the head is plastic & doesn't thread on the body. If I was to do this, I'll probably need to transplant a metal Mag C head over after grind it down to fit the shell of the ML100 head & adopt the thread of the ML100 somehow, they are not compatible. 

I can probably do it by brute force, hours & hours of grinding, but it's not going to be a practical mod. 
I am hoping that someone with a lathe be making a mag C tower type of inserts at some point that could use the shell? 

Either way, look like the led centering mechanism has to go, that's a shame, I am still amazed by how well it works.
Rotates to any direction & offers a 360 degree centering machanism. To bad it's plastic, otherwise it could be a handy lamp mount for short-arc mods. This TIR is real picky at demanding perfect centering, so this function really came in handy.


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## monkeyboy (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. I want to know how easy it is to take apart and reassemble but it sounds like it's been specifically engineered to make it difficult to mod.

Does it have the standard allen or torx T8 grub screw underneath a removable rubber switch cover or is the design completely different?


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## moderator007 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Hi ma_sha1,
Are you saying that the all aluminum maglite now has a plastic head on this model? I have read your post and don't know exactly what you mean by "the shell of the head is plastic" The entire head is plastic or just a plastic cover (shell).


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

It's completely different. I can't take the switch boot off. I don't think there is allen or torx T8 grub screw, it's electronic switch, felt flat & solid, no push in & out action, no clicky sound.

Here is a peek under the head shell, the rubber looking ring controls the white post in the center in terms of led centering.

The white post appears suspended by the control ring & can be tilted to any direction.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Here are some beam shots stock vs. TIR. Distance is 31.5 feet.
Both are Manual exposure. 1/10 sec. ISO 200. F3.3

*Stock:* Small hot spot, slightly over one feet diameter at 31.5 feet distance.
slight donut no matter how I focus it. 






With 45mm TIR lens: Larger hot spot, Perfect shape, no hint of donut, no uneveness. But it's less bright than the reflector.




*
Measured lux at 31.5 feet *(9.6 meter)
Stock Reflector: 230 lux
45mm TIR Lens: 168.0 lux

*Lux @ 1 meter converted from 9.6 meter readings:*
Stock Reflector: 21,197 [email protected] 1meter
45mm TIR Lens: 15,482 [email protected] 1meter

This is actually higher than what I've expected, this is almost 2x the lux of E2DL. 
Given that Surefire M3LT was measured at 20Klux @ 1meter by TurboBB. this is not bad at all.
*
Finally, tail cap current:*
Hi 650ma (about 4-5 hrs run time on 18650)
low 175ma (over 30 hrs run time on 18650)


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## nein166 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Thats some complex stack of internals, but most important, Is there a heat path to the body or is it all plastic?
I'd hope they would learn that all their previous LED designs are based on an incand. which isn't affected by heat.
I'd love to be able to use the host and not gut it. An emitter upgrade and driver swap would be so much easier than custom heatsinks
Fingers crossed - what do we have?

ps- love the optic, even at a loss of lux, looks more useful


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 21, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*



nein166 said:


> Thats some complex stack of internals, but most important, Is there a heat path to the body or is it all plastic?
> I'd hope they would learn that all their previous LED designs are based on an incand. which isn't affected by heat. I'd love to be able to use the host and not gut it. An emitter upgrade and driver swap would be so much easier than custom heatsinks
> Fingers crossed - what do we have?
> 
> ps- love the optic, even at a loss of lux, looks more useful



You are in luck, I looked at the internals more closely, There appears to be purposely designed metal path leading to the body. 

The shell is plastic. The black part with slots is meta body. In side its white plastic pole,
then a tube of bare metal between the plastic pole & metal body. 

I am guessing it's heat path that connecting the metal led holder to the body. Not same level as older mag where the whole head is metal, but My guess is this heat path to tube should be able to support XPG driven to 2 Amp.

I agree the TIR conversion is more useful, it's what I decided to stay with, plus I can't tolerate donuts.


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## Al Combs (Mar 22, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Wow, I though I misunderstood the statement, "The shell of the head is plastic..." That doesn't look like a very good design. Not only is the head plastic, but there's a nice air pocket to make *sure* none of the heat gets out. I guess [email protected] got tired of people saying their lights make good hosts.:devil: Personally, I don't think that's a bad thing.

That's for the heads up ma_sha1.:wave:


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 22, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*



Al Combs said:


> Wow, I though I misunderstood the statement, "The shell of the head is plastic..." That doesn't look like a very good design. Not only is the head plastic, but there's a nice air pocket to make *sure* none of the heat gets out.



Not good for modding but good enough for stock 650ma led use & probably saved cost. Seeing the complexity of the guts, it's amazing they were able to keep the price at $45.

However, the plastic shell creates a new opportunity for guys with access to machines to come up with metal shells, SS metal shells, Ti metal shells, Damascus metal shells, HA III metal shells, colored metal shells, splash anodized metal shells, gold shells, metal shell with trit slots, metal shells with logos or skulls, tatoo metal shells, metal shell with fins, ebay "bling" metal shells, Magnetic "cure every disease" metal shells. Maybe a DX version Mag Metal shell that cost $1.



Al Combs said:


> I guess [email protected] got tired of people saying their lights make good hosts.:devil: Personally, I don't think that's a bad thing.



Yes they have, you probably heard that they shut down Mac's Mag modding business. I agree being a good host is not a bad thing.


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## monkeyboy (Mar 22, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Damn! That does look pretty complicated. I guess I won't be turning one orange any time soon.

I don't understand why maglite don't want us modding their lights. It's not as if we're going to try and return them afterwards


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## Al Combs (Mar 22, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*



ma_sha1 said:


> However, the plastic shell creates a new opportunity for guys with access to machines to come up with metal shells, SS metal shells, Ti metal shells, Damascus metal shells, HA III metal shells, colored metal shells, splash anodized metal shells, gold shells, metal shell with trit slots, metal shells with logos or skulls, tatoo metal shells, metal shell with fins, ebay "bling" metal shells, Magnetic "cure every disease" metal shells. Maybe a DX version Mag Metal shell that cost $1.


Good job finding the silver lining. DX for a buck.





> Yes they have, you probably heard that they shut down Mac's Mag modding business. I agree being a good host is not a bad thing.


They killed Mac's Customs? No I hadn't heard that.:shakehead


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 22, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*



Al Combs said:


> They killed Mac's Customs? No I hadn't heard that.:shakehead



Not all Mac's customs, just the Mag modding part, like Mag drop-ins, Mag 3300L etc.
It's already gone from his web site, I believe he made an announcement in one of his mag modding thread.


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## moderator007 (Mar 22, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

From a business stand point, I dont understand why they dont like people modding there host. I have maybe 10 working maglites and a few more that where sacrificed for experimentations. And one went on the lathe. I have also sold several modded mags. 

So if I were not buying these to mod then maglite would have probably only sold me 2. One would have been a 3D incandescent that I have had for 6 or 7 years and one of the new led maglites. Thats all I probably would have bought. About the only way they stop working is if the bulb burns out or you loose them. When there new there all the same just maybe a different color or a little brighter with more cells. So why would I need 10. And the people I sold modded mags to would have just keep on using what ever they where using. So by being a good host thats 50 or 60 sold for being moddable versus maybe 5 for not being moddable for me. There's people on here that have probably bought in the hundreds for modding. Doesn't make sense to me why they would discourage modding. After all they still get to sell you the host.


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## Ctechlite (Mar 22, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

I got one today from amazon. When it gets here I'll see if I can take it apart to it's individual pieces.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 23, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Can't wait to see!


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 29, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

I guess no one is taking the lead, in the mean time, curiosity got to the best of me,
so my ML100 went under the knife. 

I was stomped immediately, I could no unscrew the retaining ring even after drilling two holes to use my ring plier. So I cut it out instead, brute force always wins 





After that, the rest of the head pieces easily screw apart:





The led module freely moves up & down, the focus is achieved by rotating the focus ring as seen in the picture, it has a slope inside, while rotating, it pushed the knob/module up & down:





The switch contacts with the led module by two loose pieces, not high current friendly:


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 29, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

All the glorious guts . 






It's going to stay like this for a while until I get my High CRI 4500K Nichia 219 in. 

The Module can still do led centering, because of centering is achieved by tilting the led post, the is a gap between the led post & the surrounding heat sink. Which means heat transfer is limited. 

I tested the led module with 1xC Li-ion, it lit up & pulls 700ma, no modes.
Which means:
1. The driver is not in the module, it's in the switch.
2. The driver is possibly PWM only, as 700ma was what I pulled at the tail before the light was tore apart. That's a good news, because I maybe able to use the PWM switch as is, W/O needing a new driver if the Nichia 219 can pull 1.4A or more under direct drive. 

Also, the heat sinking is not adequate, as the amp dropped to 600ma after a minute & the model heat sink is not warm yet.

To allow 1.5A, I'll have to destry the led centering machanism, replace that with a metal post to transfer heat to the surrounding heat sink. Also, put some Arctic Silver 5 to bridge contact between heat sink & the flashlight body.


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## Ctechlite (Apr 29, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Sorry ma_sha1, I forgot about this! I got my switch out using a T8 torx driver, but that's as far as I got. It comes out just like a regular mag, but instead of a hex it's a T8.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 29, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Nice, how did you remove switch boot? 
My was tight, I didn't pull very hard, afraid to tore it open.


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## Ctechlite (Apr 29, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

It pulls out like the regular may switches. But as you have witnessed it is very tight. I used a tooth pick to help remove it. Very difficult to get back in compared to regular mag. But it is do-able.


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## ma_sha1 (May 10, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

MY Nichia 219 shipped out, it's time to take stuff further apart.
I take out the guts for the led centering mechanism & grind a copper rod into shape:






Insert the copper core heat-sink into the shell:


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## ma_sha1 (May 13, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Finally, my Nichia 219 came in, I installed the new Led.
The ML100 driver appears to be PWM only, the amp draw is based on led vf, stock XPE tail cap measurement 650ma, I tested XML neutral, measured 2Amp to led. Installed Nichia 219 , measured 1.5Amp at the tail cap. Since it is PMW only, *the led see 1.5Amp*. At this point, the optics appears too floody with the Nichia 219, so I reinstalled the stock reflector which gives larger hot spot than stock xpe/reflector but similar (slightly less) throw, it throw further then the XPE/Optics.
Ready to compare with my Citycat M6 XML Neutral.





Left: Nichia 219 ML100; Right: CitiCat XML neutral
Somehow the picture shows Nichia 219 brighter than the Citicat but it's not the case.





Swap positions, ML100 to the right. Nichia ml100 brightness in this photo looks more realistic.
The *Nichia 219 ML100 measured 19Klux*, while the XML CitiCat 23Klux.





*Compare CRI :*
CityCat XML Neutral:





ML100 Nichia 219 92 CRI




*CityCat XML Neutral:*




*ML100 Nichia 219 92 CRI*





To be honest, the CitiCat XML Neutral tint & CRI looked pretty sweet,
but the Nichia 219 Neutral High CRI seems just a little bit sweeter, the biggest advantage is that the 219 seems to give good color where there is color but leave the white wall white instead of painting it with a "tint"...


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## ^Gurthang (May 14, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*

Another great mod Sha, love the comparo shots. Waiting for my 219s to arrive for P60 mule drop-ins.


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## ma_sha1 (May 14, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*



^Gurthang said:


> Another great mod Sha, love the comparo shots. Waiting for my 219s to arrive for P60 mule drop-ins.



Thanks!

I couldn't wait, I had already bought & sold a Vinny54 219 p60 drop-in. I am not that sensitive to CRI some how, the CRI seems to show more difference in the photo than real life. I compared the 210 P60 1.5A vs. my home-made XPG R5 neutral P60 2Amp, I was having a hard time telling the tint/CRI difference, but the brightness difference on my 2Amp XPG is much more obvious, I ended up selling the 210 P60 back to CPF. 

I wonder if the Nichia can handle 2Amp? I think I am going to try 5x7135 on my next project, 1.75Amp.


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## ma_sha1 (May 15, 2012)

*Re: Mag2C Led - ML100 Mod discussion*



moderator007 said:


> Hi ma_sha1,
> Are you saying that the all aluminum maglite now has a plastic head on this model? I have read your post and don't know exactly what you mean by "the shell of the head is plastic" The entire head is plastic or just a plastic cover (shell).



I was wrong, now that I have introduced a pin spot to the edge of the shell, I realized that it is indeed alu.




ma_sha1 said:


> It's completely different. I can't take the switch boot off. I don't think there is allen or torx T8 grub screw, it's electronic switch



Wrong again, boot does come off & Its a T8


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## download (May 15, 2012)

Awesome mod again! Ma Sha :thumbsup:
May I ask is there any way to take it apart without destroy it? 
Thanks!


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## moderator007 (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for clarifying the aluminum shell. Great looking mod ma sha1.:thumbsup:


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## ma_sha1 (May 15, 2012)

download said:


> Awesome mod again! Ma Sha :thumbsup:
> May I ask is there any way to take it apart without destroy it?
> Thanks!



Thanks! 
Yes, I think its possible. The lock ring I destroyed should be able to get un-screwed with proper tools, it has 3 notches if I remember correctly, I suspect that mag has a special tool for it. 



moderator007 said:


> Thanks for clarifying the aluminum shell. Great looking mod ma sha1.:thumbsup:



You are welcome & Thanks!


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