# Whats the most overrated flashlight?



## Quiksilver (Nov 21, 2012)

Overrated, overhyped, talked up big in the community.


When you bought it, you were underwhelmed and or disappointed.


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## Jash (Nov 21, 2012)

Zebralight SC51. What a disappointment. Turned on in pants pocket, fiddly UI, off centre emitter. Swapped it for a Quark Regular NW and haven't looked back.


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## tam17 (Nov 21, 2012)

Pretty much all _tacti-cool_ flashlights, with bad-*** military looks, bad-*** name and advertising, predominantly Chinese components inside and MTBF of 2 hours.

Cheers


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## Samy (Nov 21, 2012)

Just ask any non-flashaholic, the answer is anything over $10 

cheers


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## EV_007 (Nov 21, 2012)

Samy said:


> Just ask any non-flashaholic, the answer is anything over $10
> 
> cheers



LOL So true, so true.


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## Pretbek (Nov 21, 2012)

Zebralight SC52.


It can't make a decent espresso, has no built-in wi-fi, and certainly does not recharge your battery.
And I'm not kidding you. You just read the reviews when this light finally ships in a few days.


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## Ishango (Nov 21, 2012)

Pretbek said:


> Zebralight SC52.
> 
> 
> It can't make a decent espresso, has no built-in wi-fi, and certainly does not recharge your battery.
> And I'm not kidding you. You just read the reviews when this light finally ships in a few days.



Well, thanks for spoiling that one for me. I was sure this light would make me a decent espresso and at the very least charge my battery while in use  I guess I have to cancel my pre-order now...


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## Onthelightside (Nov 21, 2012)

I have never owned a Surefire but I would say they are pretty hyped up with price for not much performance. They are so expensive and most are just a few hundred lumens. They might be durable but I find that there are plenty of lights that are quite durable and waterproof and that have better UI's.


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## jamesmtl514 (Nov 21, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> I have never owned a Surefire but I would say they are pretty hyped up with price for not much performance. They are so expensive and most are just a few hundred lumens. They might be durable but I find that there are plenty of lights that are quite durable and waterproof and that have better UI's.



Most people that own surefire lights won't agree with you. I have about 50 of then now for various reasons. If you have the chance try one out, you may be surprised.


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## gunga (Nov 21, 2012)

Surefire kind of expensive for what they are,but I have owned some in the past. Well made, solid with good warranty. 

They have a following for a reason.


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## Kestrel (Nov 21, 2012)

Please keep in mind that if this thread becomes the 11,376th "SureFire vs. non-SureFire" thread it may have to be closed like many of the others.
Also, please note that posts to that effect usually have usernames attached to them. 


It *is* perfectly acceptable to mention SureFires in this thread, although it is often more helpful to name specific models of them.

Happy Thanksgiving. :wave:


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## Cataract (Nov 21, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> I have never owned a Surefire but I would say they are pretty hyped up with price for not much performance. They are so expensive and most are just a few hundred lumens. They might be durable but I find that there are plenty of lights that are quite durable and waterproof and that have better UI's.



Not wanting to fuel tha fire, but I half agree. Surefires are much more expensive for less lumens, but just picking one gives an idea on solidity. They still break, but there are not stats to prove if more or less than other brands. It is a proven fact that they replace parts or whole lights no questions asked. Surefire lumens are underrated (meaning more output than claimed) and a lot of their models do throw impressively for the size. All in all, you pay for unquestioned replacement and better than average performance on the cited specs.

That said, I'd say the surefire 6P incan was the most overrated light. 30$ a pop for bulb/reflector replacement, which lasted for only a few hours, ate batteries like chips and had a ridiculously short rubtime compared with a Strion. But that comment only applies for a few years in the recent past and dropins massively compensated for all these, making it THE host of choice.

In short, Surefire is not really over rated, just over hyped because other manufacturers have caught up. Nevertheless, most people will mention their first good quality light as the best brand, but Surefire did have modern day output and throw long before any modern brands. If I woke up in 1986, the first thing I would do I'd go buy a surefire.

I hope this puts the fire out, but not the "sure."


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## edpmis02 (Nov 21, 2012)

I have three MiniMag Leds, that I have stopped using due to crap PWM and NiMH performance. (wont enter high mode when cells @ 1.3 volts)

But overall.. a (Lux III)Mag 2D is my least used light. Too big.. too dim. Kept it in my car for for two years, and the batteries leaked.

I have been pretty happy with my ~$15 Mag 2D Cree. Great for reading parking lot markings (visitor spaces) or house addresses at night.


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## flame2000 (Nov 22, 2012)

I find Quark lights over-rated.
1. Greenish Tint
2. Pre-flash......some said this is a prerequisite in the circuit design. To me, this is a bug in the circuit.
3. Some like the lego parts. Fenix could do that back in the Luxeon era.
4. Expensive.

This is just my personal views. Don't shoot me.


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## shelm (Nov 22, 2012)

flame2000 said:


> I find Quark lights over-rated.
> 1. Greenish Tint
> ...
> 4. Expensive.



+ 1

*Only some* would agree with you on the greenish topic, but the flashlights are too expensive even if they werent greenish imo.
The cheapest i could find was 30$ Goinggear clearance sale of the old-branded Quarks. 

At that price, if it isnt greenish, a Quark X isnt overrated.


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## oKtosiTe (Nov 22, 2012)

flame2000 said:


> I find Quark lights over-rated.
> 1. Greenish Tint
> 2. Pre-flash......some said this is a prerequisite in the circuit design. To me, this is a bug in the circuit.
> 3. Some like the lego parts. Fenix could do that back in the Luxeon era.
> ...



I don't plan on shooting you, but I do believe some of these issues have gone away on newer models. My Quark X AA² doesn't have a green tint, nor does it have any pre-flash. I do like the lego-ability and will not argue about price.


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## Cerealand (Nov 22, 2012)

flame2000 said:


> I find Quark lights over-rated.
> 1. Greenish Tint
> 2. Pre-flash......some said this is a prerequisite in the circuit design. To me, this is a bug in the circuit.
> 3. Some like the lego parts. Fenix could do that back in the Luxeon era.
> ...



Before I really got into lights and tint, I brought several for myself and friends. Looking at them now, their tint are very green. Kinda turned me off from 4sevens from then on.

My friends are happy with theirs. They don't know how much it cost. They don't even know about tint color, but they know it's bright on max.

Things may have changed, but I had purchased about 10 lights from them. 1 was DOA and other one died within a few weeks (they were replaced quickly from 4sevens, but it does make me wary to purchase more)


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## SHADE02 (Nov 22, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> I have never owned a Surefire but I would say they are pretty hyped up with price for not much performance. They are so expensive and most are just a few hundred lumens. They might be durable but I find that there are plenty of lights that are quite durable and waterproof and that have better UI's.




+1...

my thoughts are the same...

also in a little way olight sr series....
too pricey... that or am too poor.....

ps: s.f.m.b.e.


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## [email protected] (Nov 22, 2012)

Cataract said:


> That said, I'd say the surefire 6P incan was the most overrated light. 30$ a pop for bulb/reflector replacement, which lasted for only a few hours, ate batteries like chips and had a ridiculoslously short rubtime (runtime)



Not quite true if I can interpret what is written correctly. My experience is that I haven't replaced a lamp assembly in any number of battery changes for the P60. It lasts far longer than "a few hours". The lumens out for a set of 2 * CR123"s is above or equal to average runtime for the lights from that era (try a Streamlight Scorpion or TL-2 if you want to see battery eating and ho-hum output).

Not sure what I'd call overated for a flashlight as what I've been buying is perfectly satisfying and there's no letdowns for me. Just bought another E1E for a spare. 15 lousy under-rated Surefire lumens and doesn't do anything well other than turn on when I want it to. OK tint though. Modes.....on or off.


The 6P is fine for me on anyones list for over-rated, but it sure isn't because it eats $30 lamp assemblies every few hours. Most would agree that it is an outstanding example of timeless design, but I can accept a difference in opinion.


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## Quiksilver (Nov 22, 2012)

I like the 6P, but if it wasn't the standard for modularity/upgradeability, then I probably wouldnt have one.

I was underwhelmed by the Quark Pro QPA ...

Why?

- Tailswitch felt 'tinny'
- Worked once then never worked again ... 

I have an older model and it works great aside from pre-flash.

But I think there are some QC issues that have turned me off as a customer.

--

Also, Mag-Lite Mini Mag (incan) was very disappointing. A candle puts out more light than the incan mini mag (2xAA). I unboxed it (it came with C & D mags), and threw it in the garbage within 5 minutes.


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## flame2000 (Nov 23, 2012)

oKtosiTe said:


> I don't plan on shooting you, but I do believe some of these issues have gone away on newer models. My Quark X AA² doesn't have a green tint, nor does it have any pre-flash. I do like the lego-ability and will not argue about price.



The two main things that kept me away from Quark lights mainly were the greenish tint and pre-flash. And if they really do away with these 2 issues, then I see myself picking up some of these newer Quark light. I got to read up more reviews on their recent lights before committing on buying.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 23, 2012)

OK 

IMHO

Peak. 

they looked and feel cobbed up. Crudely or roughly assembled; put together in an improvised way, as in "cobbed together".


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## SCampbell (Nov 23, 2012)

Cataract said:


> That said, I'd say the surefire 6P incan was the most overrated light. 30$ a pop for bulb/reflector replacement, which lasted for only a few hours, ate batteries like chips and had a ridiculously short rubtime compared with a Strion.
> ."



Your frame of reference is too recent. Trust me... When it first appeared, the 6P was revolutionary. And I have no idea where you're getting this nonsense regarding short-life on the standard P60 module. I bought mine in 1988, and it has led a hard life. I went to a P60L module a few years ago; but not because the original hot-wire module died. It still works fine, and is in the "spares" box for if it is ever needed again.

.


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## twl (Nov 23, 2012)

Traditionally it has been SureFire which holds the position as most over-rated flashlights.
But more recently, Zebralight has taken over the position.

An important aspect of winning the most over-rated award is a zombie-like following of die-hard fanatics who stubbornly refuse to even acknowledge any of the flaws in the lights or company, and rally around to defend the honor of their object of worship at the first hint of criticism. 
Also, random name-dropping of their favorite cult-light in "What light should I buy" threads, even if it doesn't even vaguely resemble the OP's description of needs, scores high marks. Especially if done over and over again, by cult members.
Lights which fail to meet these cult criteria will never receive the coveted "Most over-rated flashlight award". It is a must-have, to get nominated for such an award.


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## Onthelightside (Nov 23, 2012)

> But more recently, Zebralight has taken over the position.



Why are Zebralights over rated? I was thinking about getting one...


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Nov 23, 2012)

All four of my Surefire's have Malkoff or Nailbender drop-ins. As hosts, I'm very happy with them. None of my seven, 4Seven lights are green, or have pre-flash.

Out of the many lights I've sold, the Peaks are the only ones I don't miss. :shrug:

~ Chance


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## Cataract (Nov 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Not quite true if I can interpret what is written correctly. My experience is that I haven't replaced a lamp assembly in any number of battery changes for the P60. It lasts far longer than "a few hours". The lumens out for a set of 2 * CR123"s is above or equal to average runtime for the lights from that era (try a Streamlight Scorpion or TL-2 if you want to see battery eating and ho-hum output).
> 
> Not sure what I'd call overated for a flashlight as what I've been buying is perfectly satisfying and there's no letdowns for me. Just bought another E1E for a spare. 15 lousy under-rated Surefire lumens and doesn't do anything well other than turn on when I want it to. OK tint though. Modes.....on or off.
> 
> ...



You've had a better experience than me with the 6P lamp assemblies, then again I quickly bought a Malkoff after burning 1 and 1 DOA and won't trade my "General" Malkoff (one of the few lamps I named) for anything else. Maybe I should have said the _6P lamp assemblies_ _have now become _over-rated (compare with an E2L for instance). I wouldn't blame anyone for sticking with what has worked for them during years, though.



SCampbell said:


> Your frame of reference is too recent. Trust me... When it first appeared, the 6P was revolutionary. And I have no idea where you're getting this nonsense regarding short-life on the standard P60 module. I bought mine in 1988, and it has led a hard life. I went to a P60L module a few years ago; but not because the original hot-wire module died. It still works fine, and is in the "spares" box for if it is ever needed again.
> 
> .



You might have missed these lines in my comment:



Cataract said:


> [...]But that comment only applies for a few years in the recent past
> [...]
> If I woke up in 1986, the first thing I would do [is] I'd go buy a surefire.
> [...]



Same lamp since 1988!?  I might have been fooled with cheap ripoffs that barely lasted over an hour, then... I still have a working one, though, and it too sits in the spares box.


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## PhillyRube (Nov 23, 2012)

jamesmtl514 said:


> Most people that own surefire lights won't agree with you. I have about 50 of then now for various reasons. If you have the chance try one out, you may be surprised.



Surefires don't hold value...I bought a 9N many years ago, and decided to sell it.....couldn't give it away.


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## [email protected] (Nov 23, 2012)

Thanks Cataract for your post,

The output and runtime of the 6P is certainly lackluster compared to todays lamp assemblies. When compared to a M61W from Malkoff, why would anyone invest $30 a pop into Surefire when for $65 or so you get runtime that far exceeds the p60, durability, and about twice the output easily. And a very nice tint of light.

When evalutating flashlights and upon taking a 6P out of the packaging and lighting it up, for only an hour I might add, for most folks nowadays, there has to be a "is that it" moment.

As for doa lamps, I've had a P90 that gave me fits until I changed it out. It was pretty much useless in less than a couple of hours use. Had way better luck with any other Surefire lamp assembly.

Thanks again Cataract, I guess that speaks to the variance of opinion and product experiences in our hobby.


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## [email protected] (Nov 23, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> Why are Zebralights over rated? I was thinking about getting one...



I was wondering the same thing. That post from "twl" might have been more of a rant.


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## nbp (Nov 23, 2012)

PhillyRube said:


> Surefires don't hold value...I bought a 9N many years ago, and decided to sell it.....couldn't give it away.



Lights with built in rechargeable batteries are not as well liked in general, except with specific occupations, it seems. Who wants an old light with a battery you can't change to suit your needs and probably has a limited remaining capacity? It's restrictive. Most Surefires do hold value pretty well.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Nov 23, 2012)

PhillyRube said:


> Surefires don't hold value...I bought a 9N many years ago, and decided to sell it.....couldn't give it away.



Try again, I'll take it. :wave: I've always liked the [email protected]@Ks of the 9N. PM me for my mailing addy.

~ Chance


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## jamesmtl514 (Nov 23, 2012)

I'm very happy that someone so knowledgeable came in to educate us. 
I'll gladly accept all worthless Surefire lights. PM for shipping info.


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## naiter (Nov 24, 2012)

If you asked me this two years ago i'd say "surefire". but this is just because i saw them at gun shops for ridiculous amount of money, and then go dig up some other brand LED just as bright for 10X cheaper. I don't own any surefires, but now days i know there is more to a light than just price and lumen. 

I couldn't actually point out any light here. I guess i'm lucky enough not to get disappointed because i come to CPF and read up on a light before I buy.

i bought a ZL SC51. great light. i used to have regular people be more impressed with it than my SC600 because if its size and smaller hotsspot. makes me sad that someone didn't like it...
makes me feel for you surefire guys having to hear people hate on em...


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## jamesmtl514 (Nov 24, 2012)

I don't take it personally. Most people that hate on Surefire never owned one or it's a case of sour grapes. 
I have had failures with my lights, they aren't perfect by any stretch. Don't even get my started on the mismatched body parts. You'd think for the money they could get some kind of consistency.

Back to the most overrated light I've owned. Surefire E1e in the current day in stock form. They sold for 40$ on clearance, now they sell for 140$+
Sure I own a bunch, but mostly because they look really cool. And with a Lumens Factory dropin they are quite useful.


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## eh4 (Nov 24, 2012)

Lensor.


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## Let It Bleed (Nov 24, 2012)

For me it has been Quark. When I joined CPF, there was enormous enthusiasm for this brand. As a newcomer, I inferred from what I read that Quark was a revolutionary change in the way lights were designed and manufactured. 

While I really like the UI and size of these lights, I have found the quality to be subpar. Everything from terrible tints to 15 second reset times on the memory. The design was great, but the QC has been awful. If you get a good one, you’ll be happy. I’ve purchased 8. 4 were good and 4 had problems.


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## LGT (Nov 24, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> Why are Zebralights over rated? I was thinking about getting one...


I cannot answer why twl thinks they're overrated. But my H31w, H51Fw and SC600 have all worked quite fine. Both the headlamps have been used in the rain multiple times and still continue to function. Don't base your decision on the rant or endorsement of only one. Look into the abundance of information here on CPF to help you with your decision.


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## reppans (Nov 24, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> Why are Zebralights over rated? I was thinking about getting one...



I don't know about "over rated" but the one H51w sample I have is definitely "over stated" (as in lumens) ;-).


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## flame2000 (Nov 24, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> Why are Zebralights over rated? I was thinking about getting one...



Definitely not over-rated. I had both the SC51 and SC600. Both had amazingly long run-time on AA & 18650. I bet among the flashlight manufacturers, ZL has the best circuit efficiency. And they were quick to respond to customer's feed-backs too. A few complains about the side switch being too soft & turning on in their pockets and ZL fixed this with a slightly harder switch in their SC600. In addition, the amazing UI with quick access to low, mid or max with just a long click, double click and fast click.


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## naiter (Nov 24, 2012)

eh4 said:


> Lensor.


LED Lensor
Don't know about overrated, but I see em everywhere, and have a couple. not impressed with them but i've never seen anyone, other than their own packing, overrate one. don't think they are worth their price. Still better than some of the ones on the shelf where they are being sold.


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## LightJaguar (Nov 24, 2012)

jamesmtl514 said:


> I'm very happy that someone so knowledgeable came in to educate us.
> I'll gladly accept all worthless Surefire lights. PM for shipping info.



I'll take back up to him. I will gladly take all worthless and overrated Surefires from the non zombie cult members who have seen the light. 
To me the most over rated flashlight has been Mag Lite and specially the mini maglite. I see the mini mag lite being sold everywhere and it even has the red cross logo on it I think. I have been issued two of them in my various jobs. It's one of the most used flashlights and also one of the most useless.


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## jabe1 (Nov 24, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> OK
> 
> IMHO
> 
> ...



Until you realize you can run a tank over them and they'll still work. Or that they're fully potted, and hand assembled on a small scale. or that there really isn't anything there to "break" in normal use, except the battery, which can be anything that'll fit in the tube, from Alkaline to Lithium ion. (and you should say cobbled not "cobbed") No offense intended.


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## Sockeye (Nov 25, 2012)

I was never happy with My Surefire 9N always felt awkward to use, My G2 was just ok.
Almost always used the stream-light stinger incandescent while the others became orphans.


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## Monocrom (Nov 25, 2012)

If I had to pick one, I'd say the 3D [email protected] model. Before I was a flashaholic, I bought one. At about the same time, I bought a 2D G.E. disposable flashlight. Plastic, with orange body and black bezel. The [email protected] fell apart in my hands while inspecting it after it rode underneath the driver's seat of my car for 3 years. 

That G.E. light, which by the way cost me $1.99 at a 3rd-rate convenience store, lasted a bit longer . . . 12 years instead of only 3. And that G.E. light got used. It didn't just sit around until it fell apart for seemingly no reason at all. Did I mention that the beam that it put out was smooth, and had no dark spots or rings in it? (Unlike the [email protected]) Over-hyped? Oh yes.


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## Norm (Nov 25, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> OK
> 
> IMHO
> 
> ...



I really can't agree, having owned many Peak Lights.

At one stage I had a large collection of brass Peaks which I sold off, it didn't take too long for me to realize the error and I started buying more Peak lights to partially rebuild my collection.

I keep a 2 AA Brass Pamir in the glove box of my car loaded with Lithium Primaries, one of my favourite Peaks. All of my Brass Peaks are very tactile, the sort of thing you have to keep picking up if it's close by.

I can't believe anyone who has owned a peak describing them as "cobbed up. Crudely or roughly assembled; put together in an improvised way", have you ever owned a Peak light and if you have what problems did you have? your description sounds like you're talking about an entirely different company.

Norm

I gather you meant to say cobbled.


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## Blitzwing (Nov 25, 2012)

LED Lenser P7.


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## eh4 (Nov 25, 2012)

Blitzwing said:


> LED Lenser P7.



Exactly the one I was thinking of, it still hurts me to remember that I spent nearly 60$ on that 4 AAA light... I didn't know any better, just got hypnotized by the cool patented optic that they are using to sell blah lights. 
I'm gonna rip that thing apart and use the head to make a good HCRI bench lamp.


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## SuLyMaN (Nov 25, 2012)

oKtosiTe said:


> I don't plan on shooting you, but I do believe some of these issues have gone away on newer models. My Quark X AA² doesn't have a green tint, nor does it have any pre-flash. I do like the lego-ability and will not argue about price.



As a quarkx user, I can say that it has a definite green tint and has an annoying 'preflash' when moving from low to medium mode. It very briefly jumps to high /turbo for a fraction of a second. When switching from moonlight to low or medium, it does not occur. Definitely overpriced at the regular price point. 

Sent from my GT-S5660 using Tapatalk 2


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## Monocrom (Nov 25, 2012)

Norm said:


> I can't believe anyone who has owned a peak describing them as "cobbed up. Crudely or roughly assembled; put together in an improvised way", have you ever owned a Peak light and if you have what problems did you have? your description sounds like you're talking about an entirely different company.
> 
> Norm
> 
> I gather you meant to say cobbled.



I've only owned two lights from Peak LED Solutions. An Eiger keychain model and an Eiger penlight. Construction on both is impressive. Solid, well-made, all parts fitting together beautifully.


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## Guardian07 (Nov 25, 2012)

At one point in history, I would have readily put forward Surefire (no specific model), if only because of their steep prices and the fact that I've met quite a number of rabidly enthusiastic Surefire owners. My less expensive options did not cause me to see any less well in the dark, although I admittedly did not generally try to bounce my lights off the sides of steel bridges and into deep rivers. :thinking:

With that being said, I was able to do a side-by-side comparison between my Father-in-Law's Surefire and the Fenix PD30 owned by his son who gave it to him. -- Their impression was that the Surefire was an excellent light that has stood up to constant use, but that the Fenix has been every bit as capable.

Thus, I have no new overrated light to put forward. For me, it will be the one I paid more for that I could have done just as capably for less.


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## awyeah (Nov 25, 2012)

I think there's also the matter of personal preference. The way a light feels in your hand, the particular UI that the manufacturer chooses, how well it fits the needs of the individual.


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## LGT (Nov 25, 2012)

awyeah said:


> I think there's also the matter of personal preference. The way a light feels in your hand, the particular UI that the manufacturer chooses, how well it fits the needs of the individual.


I agree. A light shouldn't be considered overrated because of price or by the number of modes it has. If you want a three mode light with up to 800 lumens, is a two mode light with only 200 lumens really overrated if that's just what the buyer is looking for? I have quite a few lights from Jetbeam, nitecore,sunwayman, 4 sevens, Eagletac, HDS,Peak, Surefire, Malkoff and zebralight. Some did not live up to my expectations. But I place that blame on me, not the light. IMO, there is no such thing as an "overrated" light. Just overrated expectations.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Norm said:


> I really can't agree, having owned many Peak Lights.
> 
> At one stage I had a large collection of brass Peaks which I sold off, it didn't take too long for me to realize the error and I started buying more Peak lights to partially rebuild my collection.
> 
> ...



yes I have owned three, got rid of them later...
Vesuvius and 2 Eigers
and I still stand by what I posted and I do not want to elaborate other
than to say: they really did not float my boat compared to all the other
lights I have owned. arrived as new with scratches, way off center led,
lumpy solder blobs...knurling not consistent...reflector anomalies...the Yugo
of lights. I am not here to slam peak so I will say nothing more.


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## cburris72 (Nov 25, 2012)

Amen brother


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## tobrien (Nov 25, 2012)

we all know it's the Surefire L1... just kidding.


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## cburris72 (Nov 25, 2012)

PhillyRube said:


> Surefires don't hold value...I bought a 9N many years ago, and decided to sell it.....couldn't give it away.


. Haha....name any flashlight 9 years old that you can sell for what you paid?


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## maxrep12 (Nov 25, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> Why are Zebralights over rated? I was thinking about getting one...



twl should not be taken seriously with regards to Zebralight....

I have time stamped posts from the sc600's introduction, stating that ZL was essentially in position to dominate the market. They have, and will continue to do so for the next 8 months at a bare minimum. 

The industry is at a crux right now. Consumers are coming to grips with the need for floody lights, side switches for operation while carrying, efficient emitters, efficient circuitry, compact size, etc, etc. Tactical throwers should be a nitch market, yet these style of lights are a dime a dozen. The sooner other brands come to grips with this reality, the better off they will fair.

My comments may sound like cheerleading for ZL, but I really have zero brand loyalty. As a product tester in a different venue, I have learned that consumers that exhibit brand loyalty for extended time periods can be the least informed. Be wary of the forum member who only collects one brand of light!


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## Quiksilver (Nov 25, 2012)

I was disenfranchised by ZL when:

1. my sample size of one (1), broke. H501 faulty on high mode.

2. their nice new lights tend to use uncommon batteries like 18650. im a primary kind of guy, so not interested.


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## biglights (Nov 25, 2012)

Nice thread. Lots of different opinions. Interesting..


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## Samy (Nov 25, 2012)

maxrep12 said:


> twl should not be taken seriously with regards to Zebralight....
> 
> I have time stamped posts from the sc600's introduction, stating that ZL was essentially in position to dominate the market. They have, and will continue to do so for the next 8 months at a bare minimum.
> 
> ...



I have to agree with that. 

cheers


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## Nyctophiliac (Nov 26, 2012)

I find that rather than a particular brand or model of flashlight being over rated, it is more a state of the industry as a whole that continues to over hype its latest greatest model or line. 

What I mean is that the latest models often have very little to commend them over their immediate predecessors and some amount to little more than slight tweaks of form or UI without any practical benefit for us addicts out here. After all, to our eyes as evolution has them, bright light is what it is and the strength of brightness available long ago became too bright for practical purposes in EDC situations.

What happens is that we clamour and post about the slightest of ill-perceived benefits on many threads here and in other fora around the net, becoming free advertising to an entire industry built on our chat.

I am very guilty of this myself, but after a few years of purchasing a must-have latest model, I have 'seen the light' as it were. 

I think it was Fenix that started me off on this progression. L1 begat the L1P which gave way to L1D CE then L1D CE Q5 then with a Golden Dragon then a LD10 leading to a LD10 R5 then a LD12 S2 etc etc etc.

What I'm not saying is that any of these models are inferior to the status quo. In fact they closely follow or even lead the advances in production technology available at the time. I'm sure each and every one of these is a fine light and would make one very happy. But when you get stuck in a rut of buying all the latest most hyped models out there, fuelled by the fannish ardour on this very site, furthurmore adding the latest models from other makers, Peak (love em), Surefire (Great but makes me poor), 4Sevens (Sorry, love the lego but green green green), the list goes on, I'm sure you can fill in the usual suspects.

I look at my large collection of lights, and then happily go about my night time business armed with a decade old ARC LS which still lights the path for me and my eyes.


BTW - "Long live the new flesh!"


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## twl (Nov 26, 2012)

maxrep12 said:


> twl should not be taken seriously with regards to Zebralight....



Thanks for the vote of confidence! Perhaps you might point out anything I ever said about Zebralight that isn't true?
I think you'll find that my statements are accurate. 

It's just a personal attack with a "kill the messenger" intent. A marginalization technique to attempt to influence others to ignore the facts.
And it is a perfect example of what makes the lights "over-rated". It's a part of the definition.
Thanks for the illustration of exactly what I was pointing out.


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## FPSRelic (Nov 26, 2012)

maxrep12 said:


> The industry is at a crux right now. Consumers are coming to grips with the need for floody lights, side switches for operation while carrying, efficient emitters, efficient circuitry, compact size, etc, etc. Tactical throwers should be a nitch market, yet these style of lights are a dime a dozen. The sooner other brands come to grips with this reality, the better off they will fair.



As a comsumer, I'm confused at the idea that there is a need for floody lights. I've never been in a situation where I've said "Gee, I wish I could light up my entire back yard with this light". I have light bulb's that can do that. I find that I use floody lights on medium and high modes more often to light up objects, which effectively makes them less efficient than a light that has more throw to it. The 15 lumen low mode on my Surefire LX2 (yes, I did say Surefire) lights up pretty much anything in my acre-long back yard that I point it at. If I need flood, I can use a beam diffuser. I own one, but it's been a waste of money, as I've never needed it.

So in short, for me it's lights that have high lumens output that's all flood and no throw, like those little single cell XM-L lights that give you 500 lumens on a 16340 for all of 20 minutes, or those mules that a lot of you guys rave about. I also have to say that I find neutral and warm tints to be overrated. I hope that I'm not disrespecting anyone by saying this. Different people have different tastes. It's just that these things are not for me.


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## Quiksilver (Nov 26, 2012)

FPSRelic said:


> As a comsumer, I'm confused at the idea that there is a need for floody lights. I've never been in a situation where I've said "Gee, I wish I could light up my entire back yard with this light". I have light bulb's that can do that. I find that I use floody lights on medium and high modes more often to light up objects, which effectively makes them less efficient than a light that has more throw to it. The 15 lumen low mode on my Surefire LX2 (yes, I did say Surefire) lights up pretty much anything in my acre-long back yard that I point it at. If I need flood, I can use a beam diffuser. I own one, but it's been a waste of money, as I've never needed it.
> 
> So in short, for me it's lights that have high lumens output that's all flood and no throw, like those little single cell XM-L lights that give you 500 lumens on a 16340 for all of 20 minutes, or those mules that a lot of you guys rave about. I also have to say that I find neutral and warm tints to be overrated. I hope that I'm not disrespecting anyone by saying this. Different people have different tastes. It's just that these things are not for me.



Hear Hear!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 26, 2012)

you know what is over rated, are the eveready and rayovac stuff you find on 
the walls a target or home depot...[notably any headlight...]
you'd think by now that they would no longer be 'shake lights'....that is...you set them 
down for a week and come back to them, and they are dim as hell until you re-seat the 
battery or shake them a bit or fiddle with the switch...Ta-Da, it now works great all day. 
Next time you need it, back to the thing barely working. Come ON why is it impossible
for these cheap lights to actually work correctly when you need them ?


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## SimulatedZero (Nov 26, 2012)

As stated here before, I don't think that any one brand of lights can be labeled as overhyped or overrated. It's all in the eye of the beholder. Also, I don't think that the title overrated is supposed to go to lights that are actually over stated in regulation, lumen output, etc. I think that the title overrated belongs to any light that you have been told is going to cure all of your flashlight problems in one go and is worth X amount of dollars because of it. 

To me, I would lump Ultrafire and Surefire as diametrically opposed examples here. If I had a dollar for every time I have heard "get one of these lights and never look back", I could retire. I have heard so many people on other forums or in real life say just get Ultrafire, it's so cheap and does the same thing that you could just 8 of them incase one ever breaks. Same thing goes for Surefire, people say just get one and don't ever look back. Then you can use it to go around and break all those Ultrafires the other people bought :devil:. 

The point is that I have heard both of those lights thrown at me so many times like they are the end all be all. Like they will do everything you ever wanted from a light and more. To me, that makes a light overhyped. It's not that they aren't good, it's just that they aren't everything. They have a place to fill and are great for that place, but there are room for other lights as well. 

Just for the record here, I think Surefire lights are great and that Ultrafires aren't that bad either. Ultrafire's aren't that bad because they are useful for getting your friends addicted to having a light and wanting higher quality ones . And everyone already has heard a thousand times Surfires why are great.


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## Pretbek (Nov 26, 2012)

SimulatedZero said:


> Then you can use it to go around and break all those Ultrafires the other people bought :devil:.



:laughing:


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## Outdoorsman5 (Nov 26, 2012)

biglights said:


> Nice thread. Lots of different opinions. Interesting..



I think everybody should just take it outside.

Kiddin....it has been a good read.


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## Cataract (Nov 26, 2012)

Here's a short answer to "most overrated light": 
The one that made you scratch the doors and walls waiting for it and now sits in a box with no battery or just plain never worked right.


127.0.0.1: I wouldn't call Rayovac overrated, at least not their aluminum lights; mine have required less attention than any other light I have and still work perfectly even if they could have better output by now (but you get what you pay for...) I have to agree that most anything flashlight sold in stores is overrated just by the fact that they sell those POC's in stores.


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## TEEJ (Nov 26, 2012)

Over rated in of itself is very subjective.

I think we all have values that matter to us, and these may not mesh with other's values.

For example, valuing a light because it represents a milestone in the evolution of the history of lights might be very important to some people, and meaningless to others.

Attributing a value acquired originally by an early light, to current versions as dogma, causes collateral damage, in that a light that gained its reputation for say brightness or durability may not have increased its brightness or durability since then, and been caught and/or passed by the competition.

Attributing a value acquired originally by a new light attributed to the light by manufacturer/advertising hype causes collateral damage as well...in that the claims can prove to be overblown or even entirely fabricated. 

So you can have a fan of a new light that claimed to have certain attributes extolling its virtues to a fan of a light who's virtues were proven decades ago but are no longer cutting edge...and both fans are wrong about their light.



I do see threads where a person says they want a long range weapon light to shoot hogs at 300 meters, and people recommend SC600's or Malkoffs or whatever they happen to be fans of. Its human nature....people are light missionaries (Lumenaries?). They want other to like what they like, so they will feel like they have the right light themselves. Its like being in a club or a religion, etc. A sense of belonging.

Where the discord comes from is the difference in weighted values. If I just don't CARE what fraction of a lumen a light can put out, but do care about flooding large fields with light...I might not want to join the "Sub-lumen Club".

If I actually use my light as a tool, and expect it to have to survive drops and knocks and so forth...I might not be a fan of exquisite detailing.

If I only use the light for a few minutes to impress friends, and then polish them and return them to my custom display showcase...I might BE a fan of exquisite detailing, and not care if I could throw the light off a cliff and have it still work...and so forth.

So, some people value different aspects of the lights...and, they perceive YOUR lights as over rated if they perceive that they are SUPPOSED to be a fan, but "don't get it".


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## whiteoakjoe (Nov 27, 2012)

For me its the MagLight. If you as the "average" person to name the best flashlight that money can buy the mag will probably get more than 50% of the votes. I have a dozen of them collecting dust somewhere. But most retail stores still highlight them as the light to have. I also see them listed as the go to light for emergency kits, in a lot of articles. I know that CPF'ers are on the cutting edge, but I did not think that it would take the rest of the population this long to catch up! Its funny in my line of work lots of people have an inspection light on them and most of them 70% or better still have a Mini-Mag. At first it was cool to pull out a Quark and watch them look at it as if it came from Area 51. But now its gets a little old, and I find myslef thinking Do a little reacherch before you buy a light! The internet is for more than just Facebook folks! Sorry got up on the soapbox a little there...


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## TEEJ (Nov 27, 2012)

LOL - The posts about not "getting it" on floody beams is a perfect illustration of different strokes for different folks.

For me, floody is generally BETTER...as I can see more at a time.

For search and rescue for example, you need context to find things/people...and a tight spot is very hard to FIND things with. You have to sweep the light back and forth methodically covering the area out there, and mentally stitch together a picture of what's out there from your "view through a paper towel tube".

The concentrating of a beam is typically done BECAUSE there is not enough total light to see with UNLESS what light there is is concentrated all into one small area.

If you think about it, we are designed to see best in bright daylight, with light all around us. Ideally, the light is coming from our back instead of at our eyes, to avoid glare.

Anything less than the equivalent of bright daylight not coming AT us is a compromise in vision. A flood light comes closest to that ideal.

If I need to pop into a dark space and see it all at once...a flood does that, and spot beam doesn't.

If I need to say chase someone - a spot beam can't show me what my feet will need to contend with AND the chasee at the same time, I'd have to alternate up/down to see where I'm going/where the guy being chased is going, or DOING, or their options, etc....very dangerous.

If I need to look into the end of a tight but deep dark passage with obstructions, a flood might glare too much off proximal objects, the reflected light coming back will be like sunlight AT ME, which is not ideal, if I can't practically CARRY a light with enough reserve power to FLOOD a 600 meter range target set, so that I HAVE TO concentrate a given out put to REACH the targets,...then a spot beam is BETTER for me then, and so forth.

So, if you DON'T use a light in a certain context, you will not "GET" why others DO. You will not have the life experience/insight needed to GET why say a floody OR tight beam is better, or worse, FOR THEM.

I use lights for so many contexts that I have seen enough to know that there's more I'm not seeing...just from extrapolation/interpolation of what I DO see. I GET that everyone uses the lights differently...and that they WILL have expectations and preferences...and that they WILL differ from my own.

That doesn't make them wrong..it makes their CHOICES right for them and wrong for ME. It can also make MY choices wrong for THEM, and so forth.


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## awyeah (Nov 27, 2012)

TEEJ said:


> For me, floody is generally BETTER...as I can see more at a time.



I think floody is probably better for when the power goes out as well - when I'm walking around my house in the dark, shining my light at something that's only a few feet away, I don't want a tight hotspot.


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## AVService (Nov 27, 2012)

whiteoakjoe said:


> For me its the MagLight. If you as the "average" person to name the best flashlight that money can buy the mag will probably get more than 50% of the votes. I have a dozen of them collecting dust somewhere. But most retail stores still highlight them as the light to have. I also see them listed as the go to light for emergency kits, in a lot of articles. I know that CPF'ers are on the cutting edge, but I did not think that it would take the rest of the population this long to catch up! Its funny in my line of work lots of people have an inspection light on them and most of them 70% or better still have a Mini-Mag. At first it was cool to pull out a Quark and watch them look at it as if it came from Area 51. But now its gets a little old, and I find myslef thinking Do a little reacherch before you buy a light! The internet is for more than just Facebook folks! Sorry got up on the soapbox a little there...



To me this is just Crazy Talk!
Have you even used the new $20.00 AA LED Mag?
The idea that you can get something like this on the mass market and abuse it and get replacements all over the place is amazing to me.

I use them all the time,every day and there is not a lot to not like for money and what it is?
They have been reliable and can have the beam shaped somewhat out of the box.
They do eat batteries but again I use them all the time and they have just worked for me and in a construction environment too.

I have also bought the LED 2AA and 2D combo pack for $30.00 and I challenge you to show me anything like what you get with tis for near the price.

The 3AA is even better and I use them camping and all over the place too.

Anyway I know this is an entirely subjective thread but I suggest a lot of us would not even be here if it were not for Mag,for better and worse.


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## fisk-king (Nov 27, 2012)

AVService said:


> ...Anyway I know this is an entirely subjective thread but I suggest a lot of us would not even be here if it were not for Mag,for better and worse.



I agree with that. They are the *granddaddy* of flashlights, I guess. They can take alot of abuse and are reliable (not a fan of the incans tho) given most situations. Personally, I wouldn't describe Maglites as overrated but *dated* in regards to technology today.


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## mccririck (Nov 27, 2012)

eh4 said:


> Exactly the one I was thinking of, it still hurts me to remember that I spent nearly 60$ on that 4 AAA light... I didn't know any better, just got hypnotized by the cool patented optic that they are using to sell blah lights.
> I'm gonna rip that thing apart and use the head to make a good HCRI bench lamp.




I have a T7. Do you think it's any better?


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## maxrep12 (Nov 27, 2012)

FPSRelic said:


> As a comsumer, I'm confused at the idea that there is a need for floody lights. I've never been in a situation where I've said "Gee, I wish I could light up my entire back yard with this light". I have light bulb's that can do that. I find that I use floody lights on medium and high modes more often to light up objects, which effectively makes them less efficient than a light that has more throw to it. The 15 lumen low mode on my Surefire LX2 (yes, I did say Surefire) lights up pretty much anything in my acre-long back yard that I point it at. If I need flood, I can use a beam diffuser. I own one, but it's been a waste of money, as I've never needed it.
> 
> So in short, for me it's lights that have high lumens output that's all flood and no throw, like those little single cell XM-L lights that give you 500 lumens on a 16340 for all of 20 minutes, or those mules that a lot of you guys rave about. I also have to say that I find neutral and warm tints to be overrated. I hope that I'm not disrespecting anyone by saying this. Different people have different tastes. It's just that these things are not for me.



If you are viewing your surroundings through a cardboard tube, then throwers may offer contentment. This has been discussed at length around here. The consensus being that 90% of our flashlight needs are more efficiently met from lights offering more flood. 

As emitters, batteries, and circuitry become more efficient, flood lights become very practical in terms of size, runtimes, and lumen output(sc600). These lights allow our peripheral vision to be brought into play. This type of vision accounts for a portion of our ability to maintain balance. Our peripheral vision is also one of the most effective ways we detect motion.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Nov 28, 2012)

I would say the most overrated flashlights are AA l.e.d. Maglites. When these first came out, I bought several 2 and 3 AA Luxeon III l.e.d. ones. All stopped working within a month because corrosion was building up on the battery terminals (poor quality metal for contacts). I then used DeOxit on all my l.e.d. Maglites. After a few months of regular use on some, the l.e.d.s burned out due to poor heatsinking. Others had alkaline batteries leak in them. I gave my sister a 2AA Luxeon III single level l.e.d. Maglite and the l.e.d burned out. I replaced it with a 2AA Luxeon Rebel Single level (second generation) Maglite and the same thing happened after about a month. I replaced it with a 2AA Luxeon Rebel Two Level (third generation) Maglite and it stopped working after a couple 3 foot drops. Needless to say, I'm done buying AA l.e.d. Maglites until they can fix these reliability issues. I haven't had any issues with the D sized l.e.d. Maglites.


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## FPSRelic (Nov 28, 2012)

maxrep12 said:


> If you are viewing your surroundings through a cardboard tube, then throwers may offer contentment. This has been discussed at length around here. The consensus being that 90% of our flashlight needs are more efficiently met from lights offering more flood.
> 
> As emitters, batteries, and circuitry become more efficient, flood lights become very practical in terms of size, runtimes, and lumen output(sc600). These lights allow our peripheral vision to be brought into play. This type of vision accounts for a portion of our ability to maintain balance. Our peripheral vision is also one of the most effective ways we detect motion.




I've read a lot of the discussions on the subject, and to hear it being told, it's like all throwy lights project this laserlike spot beam that has inky blackness all about it. In truth, I can point my LX2 at chest level on low, and there is enough spill coming from it for me to identify any objects that are on the ground that I might run into. I might not be able to notice a joint being dropped by a perpetrator that I'm running down, but I can run down the street and avoid stepping on a broken glass bottle. I find that I can use my wrist to move the light around to objects of interest more efficient than moving forward to view objects further away.

I can understand that a police officer or soldier doing a forced entry and clear of a dark dwelling in the hot noon sun may need a bright floody light, but I'm not a tier one operative or police officer. I'm a regular guy who uses his torch to do all sorts of things, from close up work on a broken router inside a water tower to lighting up a wireless antenna on the top of said water tower to inspect it for obvious damage after a storm. In short, I can do close up work AND longer distance work with a throwier light. I can only do close up work with the floodier one.


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## Cataract (Nov 28, 2012)

FPSRelic said:


> I've read a lot of the discussions on the subject, and to hear it being told, it's like all throwy lights project this laserlike spot beam that has inky blackness all about it. In truth, I can point my LX2 at chest level on low, and there is enough spill coming from it for me to identify any objects that are on the ground that I might run into. I might not be able to notice a joint being dropped by a perpetrator that I'm running down, but I can run down the street and avoid stepping on a broken glass bottle. I find that I can use my wrist to move the light around to objects of interest more efficient than moving forward to view objects further away.
> 
> I can understand that a police officer or soldier doing a forced entry and clear of a dark dwelling in the hot noon sun may need a bright floody light, but I'm not a tier one operative or police officer. I'm a regular guy who uses his torch to do all sorts of things, from close up work on a broken router inside a water tower to lighting up a wireless antenna on the top of said water tower to inspect it for obvious damage after a storm. In short, I can do close up work AND longer distance work with a throwier light. I can only do close up work with the floodier one.



I agree 99% with just about everything you said.

Most police forces (especially swat teams) look for flashlights with tights spots for 2 reasons: throws more and to avoid glare from the light bouncing off walls.

I personally find flood over rated as a diffuser does a neat job, spill is 99% of the time sufficient and I often need to look into crowded machines where flood shows the foreground and nothing in the back - where I mostly need to see. If I'm hiking, I need to see as far as possible so I don't have to come back on my steps to avoid obstacles. Flood is nice in small lights I use to do close-up work, but not when I mean business. In some cases, even spill is undesirable for my work. Just my 2 cents, but there is a need for different beam profiles, not just flood; it's just a matter of what you're using the light for.


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## LGT (Nov 28, 2012)

It's somewhat mind boggling how one that doesn't need a particular type of flashlight as far as having a tight beam, or being floody, or whatever the tint, will consider ANYTHING outside of the realm of what they use a light for to be overrated.


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## Kestrel (Nov 28, 2012)

There have been a number of quite valid nominations in this category, of which there has been a rather complete discussion by now.
It seems as though this thread has run its course and has substantially wandered off track from the OP's original intent.
I'm closing it now; if the OP would like it to be reopened I can do so.

Best regards,


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