# Convert an older Surefire Z2 Combat or E2 to LED?



## DHart (Jan 9, 2009)

Wow.... about all I can say after venturing into this complex new world of flashlights. I have a Surefire Z2 combat and E2 Exec that are a number of year's old, without a lot of use. I even have a case of Surefire 123's that date back a good 5 years or so, I think. Now I discover what's going on here with LED's and all. WOW. AND I discover the dangers of using multiple 123's. YIKES.

Anyway, is there a nice conversion to LED for my Z2 or E2 Surefires? 

And is there a substitution for the 2x 123's, like a single rechargeable of some sort?

These waters get really deep, really fast for a newbie like me, so I hope I'm not asking reaaaally dumb questions! From what I've read here, I know I like the longevity and durability of LED and the relative safety (from venting) with the 18650. I have no idea if I can use anything like the 18650 in my Z2 or E2, but would appreciate your advice. Thanks very much. INCREDIBLE FORUM and MEMBERS!


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## Bruce B (Jan 9, 2009)

For starters there is the Surefire P60L LA (http://www.surefire.com/P60L) which will fit into you Z2. I do suggest you look around on the forum and get others opinions as well, due to the fact that there are much better LED LA that will work with your Z2. As far as the E2, I am not sure if there is an LA that will convert it to LED, other than buying an LED conversion head direct from SF. Maybe the other more experienced Flashaholics here can help you out as well... 

:welcome: DHart!


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## DHart (Jan 9, 2009)

Bruce... thank you for the info and the welcome. It's nice to know that the SF P60L will upgrade my Z2 to LED! I guess at $40 I need to ask myself if I should just spend more and buy another, LED, flashlight... like the JetBeam III. 

Before I spring for that, can anyone suggest any alternatives which might be even better or brighter, or the same but at lower cost?

Thanks, in advance, to all!


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## Niconical (Jan 9, 2009)

There is a relatively simple way to keep the Z2 as incan but make it rechargeable. 

You will need a 3.7v lamp, like this one..... , the EO-4. 

Then a 17670 battery, my choice would the AW protected 17670. 

This gives you a similar output to the P60, with great runtime.
(Note: Don't be confused by lumens figures. Lumens Factory and Surefire measure in a different way so the numbers can't be directly compared without being translated). 

There are then other options, moving onwards and upwards, but of course the further up you go, the less runtime you get. For example, my favorite is the Surefire P90 lamp, the one supplied in the 3 cell lights, but run in a 2 cell light with 2 rechargeables. brightness is the same, if not better, but of course runtime suffers. 

Moving on to 18650 batteries will require either a custom body, or a bored Surefire body as the stock ones don't fit a 18mm battery. 

The simplest options would be to choose between the 2 above. P60 type output, longer runtime, a single large cell. P90 type output, shorter runtime, a pair of cells. 

I'll leave it to those more knowledgeable to offer some of the advanced options


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## DHart (Jan 9, 2009)

Wow, this is cool.

I'm not so concerned with run times for my Z2 Combat... would be happy to just have super bright output.

Does the P90 lamp just drop-into my stock Z2/P60 reflector?

Thanks so much! Cool stuff!


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## depusm12 (Jan 9, 2009)

Look at one of Gene Malkoff's led dropins for your Z2. I'm a police officer and I carry a Z2 on my belt with Malkoff's M60 dropin 230 lumens of nice white light. The Malkoff dropin will set you back about $60 with shipping maybe a little less. You can use the normal CR123's or Li-Ion CR123's the Malkoff's will take up to 9 volts. Here's the web site http--www.malkoffdevices.com-shop2-


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## Niconical (Jan 9, 2009)

DHart said:


> Wow, this is cool.
> 
> I'm not so concerned with run times for my Z2 Combat... would be happy to just have super bright output.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, the P90 is the same shape/size as the P60. 

1. Get a P90, Marketplace or elsewhere, they're quite easy and cheap to find. 
In fact, I think someone recently posted a 'good deal' thread where they found them for $4.99 each. 

2. Get a pair of AW RCR123A batteries, and presumably you'll need a charger, also get from AW. 

3. P90 in one end of the Z2, batts in the other, and off you go for P90 brightness for at least 30 mins. I say 30 mins based on my battery choice for the same lamp which is slightly different and lower capacity, but crunching the numbers, the AW RCR123A should get you 30 mins. Get a spare pair (or more) and your incan needs are always covered.


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## TMedina (Jan 9, 2009)

DHart, welcome to the jungle.

No matter which way you go, the new LED drop-in will be quite a surprise. :huh:

-Trevor


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## SunStar (Jan 9, 2009)

Is this the awesome photographer "DHart"?

If so, I've enjoyed many of your firearm photos. Can't wait to see what you can do with beamshots and flashlights!!

Welcome and glad you are here....
SunStar

Tough to beat the Z2 in form and function. If it were mine, I'd add a Malkoff M60 for "can't believe this is my Z2" output providing the use of both Cr123's and RCR123's. The Malkoff's are of very good build quality and will not disappoint. A couple of other upgrades you might consider... a new Pyrex Window Bezel and a Lock Out Tailcap.


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## Chrontius (Jan 9, 2009)

If you want to go rechargeable, either of your Surefires will take 16340 lithium batteries (16mm wide, 34mm long, cylindrical) - these are CR123 sized li-ion cells. Currently top of the awesome heap is the AW IMR series, which are _inherently safe_ and don't explode under abuse. 

Pila chargers are highly recommended, and currently on sale.

Your Z2 will host a great deal of LED mods, some pretty good ones starting at $10 if you're willing to import them from China yourself, and some truly excellent US-made ones in the vicinity of $60 from Malkoff Devices. 


Your E2 can be converted to LED, but you'll need something like the E-MiniTower (search for E-MT, I think) or to send it to someone for professional work. (The Milky RoomSweeper by our very own Milkyspit springs to mind; it's a 700-lumen LED monster designed for SWAT use) 

You'll quickly find that pro services can cost more than the light, and good dropins nearly as much as you paid for the surefire in the first place... you'll also find some remarkable bargains if you're willing to read and learn. :welcome:


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## JNewell (Jan 9, 2009)

For the excellent Z2, there is a lot to be said for an LED conversion. In general, longer runtimes at higher outputs and good ones are regulated which means you don't have the immediate downward movement of output. Also, much longer service life and immunity to shock (drops, etc.).

Best/brightest IMO is the Malkoff M60, although I prefer the M60F which has a very even flood. If you want to extend the runtime at the expense of output, you can go with an M60L or LF. There are also "W" (warmer color temp) versions but the output is slightly reduced. There are situations where the broader spectral output of an incan is important but IMO that is not a significant factor for the uses you cite.


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## DHart (Jan 9, 2009)

WOW... this is so exciting. I never dreamed the world of flashlights was so deep and interesting.

Yes, this is DHart the photographer, usually found on the firearms forums.

Thanks so much for all the info, guys, I'm really pumped the get going with this stuff! I'm also looking for my first premium 1xCR123 light. I have a couple of cheapies in the $20 range from Target & Sportsmans Warehouse, but now starting to look into the good ones. Yee-haw. :thumbsup:


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## Gunner12 (Jan 9, 2009)

This thread contains drop-ins that should work with the Z2.

If you have any Maglites, also check this thread.

:welcome:


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## RobertM (Jan 9, 2009)

:welcome:

You definitely need to read this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=161536
It's a bit long, but you will learn a ton about how to upgrade your SureFire Z2 and E2e and all the options that you have.

Once you've read that, here is a nice thread of beamshots of a whole bunch of lamps and some LEDs that might interest you. BTW, this thread includes a P60 which is currently in your Z2, as well as the MN03 that is in your E2e, so you can easily compare them to others before you settle on buying something:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202652

Good luck and be sure to ask if you have any questions!
Robert


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## sappyg (Jan 9, 2009)

:welcome: Dhart...
CAUTION.......... you are about to enter the cash zone


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## isneyk (Jan 9, 2009)

Hogo's sweeper

Page two contains the wow shots:thumbsup: & :welcome:


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## JNewell (Jan 10, 2009)

Not sure whether this thread with spec comparison has been linked above. Didn't see it but could have been going too fast. Worthy looking at to see how the Malkoffs compare.


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## DHart (Jan 10, 2009)

You guys are fantastic... thank you sooo much for all the info and links. I really needed a break from all the gun forums too! I love learning about all this stuff... guess I'm quite nerdularially-oriented! (what my wife calls me!) Even thinking I may want to learn how to build one of these myself.

I'm thinking I may go with the Malkoff M60F for the Z2 and I'm so tempted to send my E2 off to Milkyspit to get myself a RoomSweeper. 

YES, I can see that I've definitely entered.... the CASH ZONE!!!


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## Long RunTime (Jan 10, 2009)

DHart said:


> You guys are fantastic... thank you sooo much for all the info and links. I really needed a break from all the gun forums too! I love learning about all this stuff... guess I'm quite nerdularially-oriented! (what my wife calls me!) Even thinking I may want to learn how to build one of these myself.
> 
> I'm thinking I may go with the Malkoff M60F for the Z2 and I'm so tempted to send my E2 off to Milkyspit to get myself a RoomSweeper.
> 
> YES, I can see that I've definitely entered.... the CASH ZONE!!!


:welcome:Good choice, I have the M60LF in my G2Z and love the beam. Hope to see some of your beamshots photo soon. Welcome to CPF friend.


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## SimpleIsGood229 (Jan 10, 2009)

DHart said:


> Yes, this is DHart the photographer, usually found on the firearms forums.


So it _is _you! Welcome to CPF! You haven't been on THR in quite some time (unless I've missed you).

I suggest the Malkoff M60 for your Z2. I have this same set up and completely love it! Get the M60W if you like a warmer tint.


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## Kestrel (Jan 10, 2009)

DHart said:


> I'm thinking I may go with the Malkoff M60F for the Z2 and I'm so tempted to send my E2 off to Milkyspit to get myself a RoomSweeper.
> YES, I can see that I've definitely entered.... the CASH ZONE!!!


 
Another good solution for the direction you're heading: Gene Malkoff has made at least one P7 drop-in for a member here. It definitely outperforms the M60F that you mentioned and could be considered a not-so-rich-man's Room Sweeper. Here's the thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/214546
Specifically, read this post:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2720966&postcount=9
Enjoy.:naughty:


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## TMedina (Jan 10, 2009)

Ya know - I'm not gonna do it. I don't need it and I surely don't need to spend the money.

Damn, that sounds hollow, even to me.

-Trevor


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## DHart (Jan 10, 2009)

Kestrel said:


> Another good solution for the direction you're heading: Gene Malkoff has made at least one P7 drop-in for a member here. It definitely outperforms the M60F that you mentioned and could be considered a not-so-rich-man's Room Sweeper. Here's the thread:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/214546
> Specifically, read this post:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2720966&postcount=9
> Enjoy.:naughty:



Kestrel... wow, thank you so much for that link.... that P7 drop-in would definitely be an awesome "RoomSweeper" ! Just the kind of light I'd light I'd like to find... something that will give broad, very bright, floody coverage with minimal to no central hot spot. I guess since that build went into a C2, one could definitely be done for my Z2. 

I think for most civilian self-defense situations, a super bright, super floody beam is just the ticket for quick identification of the entire general area and good temporary blinding effect on an assailant - long enough to get your carry piece and defend yourself. For this purpose, I see no need for long run times, nor for a hot spot or long throwing ability. 

So I'm thinking I'll convert either or both my Z2 and E2 Exec to super bright, super floody defense lights and also buy some new, state-of-the-art higher-tech and more featured lights for general purpose and throwing, etc.


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## Kestrel (Jan 10, 2009)

DHart said:


> I guess since that build went into a C2, one could definitely be done for my Z2.


The best part is that it's not a build, but a drop-in that can travel between many of the 'open' SF's. Their line is very customizable in this respect. I have an M30 in my C3 and a M60LL in my G2, I may pick up a M60 which will then go into the C3, my M30 goes somewhere else, my M60LL goes into my wife's G2L, her P60L goes into my G2 if I get rid of it... etc etc ad infinitum ... or at least until 

Glad I could help.

BTW where are you at in the PNW, roughly?


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## DHart (Jan 10, 2009)

Kestrel... gotta love that interchangeability, eh? I'll bet you're glad you bought all those SF's because it's so easy to mod 'em up and swap LA's.

Moving forward, I wonder if it makes sense to continue to buy SF's for that interchangeability or better to by some of the more nicely priced and featured competitive models? There are so many incredible options now competing with SF.

I'm in Vancouver, WA. Your screen name is very familiar to me... from the gun forums, right?


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## Kestrel (Jan 10, 2009)

DHart said:


> Kestrel... gotta love that interchangeability, eh? I'll bet you're glad to bought all those SF's because it's so easy to mod 'em up and swap LA's.
> 
> Moving forward, I wonder if it makes sense to continue to buy SF's for that interchangeability or better to by some of the more nicely priced and featured competitive models? There are so many incredible options now competing with SF.
> 
> I'm in Vancouver, WA. Your screen name is very familiar to me... from the gun forums, right?


 
I initially bought a few L1's and an L2 because they were an attempt to have one light serving multiple purposes. However, they are LiIon-unfriendly and rather difficult/expensive to upgrade. I still really like my SF L1 but the L2 is relegated to the junk drawer, I'm afraid. However, the 'open' SF's are so much fun to try to optimize, especially with the Malkoff modules and rechargeable batteries.

Re: gun forums. Sorry, completely innocent. I'm a gun buff as well (.35's & .44's for the most part), but CPF takes all my forum time.


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## Gunner12 (Jan 11, 2009)

There are also many non-surefire lights that also accept the P60 lamp and drop-ins, like the Dereelight CL1H(all 4 versions) and down to the budget "company name"(usually Ultrafire or Spiderfire) 501B. Some are also compatible with the Surefire parts.


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## DHart (Jan 11, 2009)

The plot thickens! Is is fairly easy to find out what brands or models of flashlights have interchangeable LAs... like which ones can take a P30/P60?

I would think there would be a great utility for a lot of people if there was a listing of that kind of thing.

Now I'm getting really excited about playing flashlight legos. Are very many flashlight parts common? Like threads on bodies... or are they mostly proprietary? I can see how this hobby could become a huge addiction. oo:


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## sappyg (Jan 11, 2009)

DHart said:


> Kestrel... gotta love that interchangeability, eh? I'll bet you're glad you bought all those SF's because it's so easy to mod 'em up and swap LA's.
> 
> Moving forward, I wonder if it makes sense to continue to buy SF's for that interchangeability or better to by some of the more nicely priced and featured competitive models? There are so many incredible options now competing with SF.


 
i would recommend a broad sampling of the lights and manufactures that you like. define what it is you want in a flashlight and refine your purpose for using a particular flashlight. you may find that there are others that will enterest you and suit you purpose as well or better. i get just as much enjoyment out of choosing a light for my daily activities as i do researching and using different lights. i guess i'm an equal opportunity flashoholic because i can find a use for just about any flashlight.
one thing that MCOCOD has said that i wish i had paid attention to early on is not to get caught up in lumens. remember that.... it might save you some money.
try these suggestions made here 1st and then you'll have a good base for the direction you will want to follow.


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## sappyg (Jan 11, 2009)

DHart said:


> The plot thickens! Is is fairly easy to find out what brands or models of flashlights have interchangeable LAs... like which ones can take a P30/P60?
> 
> I would think there would be a great utility for a lot of people if there was a listing of that kind of thing.
> 
> Now I'm getting really excited about playing flashlight legos. Are very many flashlight parts common? Like threads on bodies... or are they mostly proprietary? I can see how this hobby could become a huge addiction. oo:


 
there is a sticky for LA's and drop ins at the top of the LED or General discussion


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## JNewell (Jan 11, 2009)

The Malkoff M60F (not LF) fills that bill perfectly. I have an M60, M60F and M60LF. My absolute favorite is the M60F. Full, even and very bright flood. You could do a lot worse than to buy one of these to get a feel for what these sort of drop-ins offer. IMO you are very unlikely to regret spending ~$50 on one of these. At some point real world, in-your-hands in-the-dark experience is important - you can only get so much out of reading what other folks say.



DHart said:


> Kestrel... wow, thank you so much for that link.... that P7 drop-in would definitely be an awesome "RoomSweeper" ! Just the kind of light I'd light I'd like to find... something that will give broad, very bright, floody coverage with minimal to no central hot spot. I guess since that build went into a C2, one could definitely be done for my Z2.
> 
> I think for most civilian self-defense situations, a super bright, super floody beam is just the ticket for quick identification of the entire general area and good temporary blinding effect on an assailant - long enough to get your carry piece and defend yourself. For this purpose, I see no need for long run times, nor for a hot spot or long throwing ability.
> 
> So I'm thinking I'll convert either or both my Z2 and E2 Exec to super bright, super floody defense lights and also buy some new, state-of-the-art higher-tech and more featured lights for general purpose and throwing, etc.


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## DHart (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks sappy... yes, I can see a definite need for a variety of light applications, heck I even have a tiny little LED light meant to hand as a pendant around the neck that I use just for lighting up the back of storage cabinets, deep drawers and such. And living on acreage, I can put a hot thrower to great use (don't have one yet!). And of course the need for a RoomSweeper. And a floody thrower for walks etc. No wonder so many members here have so many lights in their collections. I'm just the kind of guy to build a collection of numerous lights for various purposes... a perfect candidate to become a flashaholic. 

Great suggestions here... I'm going to get going with trying some of these mods right away. The Malkoff M60F sounds perfect... and I'm thinking about trying one of his P7 mods as well.


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## tango44 (Jan 12, 2009)

Hi guys I'm also looking for a Led upgrade for my Z2, G2Z and 6P, does any one have try or own the Optics HQ 
*[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica]TLS Cree Q5 LED Drop-in Module[/FONT]*

http://www.opticshq.com/page/Optics/PROD/Surefire-Accessories/FL-TLS-DTC-TC-DI

Is this a thrower spotter?
I do not like the flood beams, I'm looking for a tight beam like my TLS led head for my E2D.

What would you recomend? 

Or simply stick with a P60L?
Malkoff which model is a thrower?

Thank you.


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## TMedina (Jan 12, 2009)

The M60 is the stock drop-in, but it isn't specifically a thrower.

The M60F (for Flood) is specifically geared for spill.

-Trevor


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## Chrontius (Jan 13, 2009)

Acreage, hm? The Everready Dolphin - aka the Energizer WeatherReady lantern - is my favorite cheap thrower. Works great with the four-cell MagLite xenon bulbs, sold as the MagnumStar.

I've built a 25 watt MagLite, and this $6 plastic lantern throws a beam further.


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