# Surefire Maximus, Minimus AA, Minimus Tactical and Minimus Vision!



## edc3

Anybody else seen the CPF Facebook Fan Photos from Show Show? 




Maximus rechargeable headlamp 1-500 lumens!
Minimus 2XAA!
Minimus Tactical
Minimus Vision - A warm Minimus!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...o.136997678491



Im very interested in a Minimus AA and a warmer-colored Minimus.


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## dmz

When is the Minimus AA coming out?


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## Blindasabat

Linky no worky.


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## Robertesq1

the maximus and double A minimus are in the new catalog not on the website though....


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## ryguy24000

edc3 said:


> Anybody else seen the CPF Facebook Fan Photos from Show Show?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maximus rechargeable headlamp 1-500 lumens!
> Minimus 2XAA!
> Minimus Tactical
> Minimus Vision - A warm Minimus!
> http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...o.136997678491
> 
> 
> 
> Im very interested in a Minimus AA and a warmer-colored Minimus.


 

For some reason I cannot view this? is there another sight we can view?


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## TedTheLed

minimus aa pic here...

http://www.lapolicegear.com/sf-minimus-aa.html


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## Bolster

That photo's kinda small...here's screenshots of the SF Minimus AA from the goinggear video...


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## busseguy

Bolster said:


> That photo's kinda small...here's screenshots from the goinggear video...










Could they have made that thing even uglier:sick2:


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## ryguy24000

Ugly and minimally huge!


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## Anonnn

I would love to own the Minimus AA, but the project is currently on hold.


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## Bolster

With the CR123 Minimus, the tube held the cell. Now it appears the 2AA go into the (large) black box behind the tube. So what's in the tube now, empty space? Or does the tube hold one of the two AAs? And why do we need a Borg-type external wire? Wouldn't that get hung up on things, provide an entry point for water, and be a point of weakness/failure?

It seems to me that a 2AA Minimus required a redesign, and SF decided to just modify the CR123 version a little instead. Looking at the design, I wish they'd just made an in-tube 1AA design and kept the nifty sleek tube design...narrower and a bit longer for an AA. As is, I think you're going to have quite a bit of "weight forward" with this design. I really like AA headlamps, but for the Minimus I think I'd be more likely to pony up for the CR123 high CRI version. 

I can't help but compare this 2AA Minimus against the Spark SD52, and I think they got the SD52 a lot more compact and integrated. (And brighter.)


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## Anonnn

Bolster said:


> With the CR123 Minimus, the tube held the cell. Now it appears the 2AA go into the (large) black box behind the tube. So what's in the tube now, empty space? And why do we need a Borg-type external wire? Wouldn't that get hung up on things, provide an entry point for water, and be a point of weakness/failure?
> 
> It seems to me that a 2AA Minimus required a redesign, and SF decided to just modify the CR123 version a little instead. Looking at the design, I wish they'd just made a 1AA design and kept the nifty sleek tube design...narrower and a bit longer for an AA. As is, I think you're going to have quite a bit of "weight forward" with this design.



Agreed. I'd buy that single AA version.


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## dwong

after those pix, the 2AA is completely out for me.


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## johnny0000

Well....I'll believe it when I actually see it with my own eyes on store shelves. Hopefully, it'll come out by Shot Show 2013.:sick2:


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## cummins4x4

Going gear has the tactical and vision in stock, now which one to get.


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## pjandyho

I am quite disappointed in my Minimus Vision. The tint is nice and warm but the shape of the LED is being projected right onto the centre of the entire beam pattern, causing an artifact to form. Also, I don't know what is with Surefire that they are so stingy when it comes to lubrication. The control dial on my Vision squeaks like hell when I turn it. Overall, the design and built is nice. I think I still prefer my Zebralight H501w and H51Fw.


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## JoVo

pjandyho said:


> I am quite disappointed in my Minimus Vision. The tint is nice and warm but the shape of the LED is being projected right onto the centre of the entire beam pattern, causing an artifact to form.


 Hm, that is really sad. Can you guess what kind of emitter is in there?


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## pjandyho

JoVo said:


> Hm, that is really sad. Can you guess what kind of emitter is in there?


Nope I can't tell. The domed lens just makes the LED look so big it looks like an MC-E in there but I am very sure it's not.


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## Bolster

pjandyho said:


> ...the shape of the LED is being projected right onto the centre of the entire beam pattern, causing an artifact to form.....



Is this similar to the artifact reported by the earlier (greenish tint) Saints? (See 3 beamshots at end of first post here)


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## pjandyho

Bolster said:


> Is this similar to the artifact reported by the earlier (greenish tint) Saints? (See 3 beamshots at end of first post here)


Yes it is. I have never been bothered much by beams that aren't smooth, but here in the Minimus Vision I am very disappointed. Thought they have rectified the problem by now but it isn't.


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## cummins4x4

Crap, think I will get a Spark, too many issues with the SF HL's IMO..


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## brosna

Hi All, I have one of the minimus A123 headlights. Great light but have found the on/off knob to be a little soft in the off position.
The light has come on in my pack twice now and burned out the battery glad i didn't have the aux pack wired up would have lost
several A123.


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## ryguy24000

For being the ultimate flashlight manufacturer Surefire Sure gets some bad reviews!


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## LEDAdd1ct

If and when I have the funds to get a Surefire headlamp, it will be the Maximus running 2xAA. Don't care for forward battery packs, and the Minimus AA looks crammed and cumbersome.


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## pjandyho

LEDAdd1ct said:


> If and when I have the funds to get a Surefire headlamp, it will be the Maximus running 2xAA. Don't care for forward battery packs, and the Minimus AA looks crammed and cumbersome.


Having been so used to Zebralights, the Minimus Vision does feel heavy on my forehead. I can't help feeling the skin on my forehead being pushed down to my eyebrows. Good way to add more wrinkles on a guy reaching 40.


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## LEDAdd1ct

When you reach ten wrinkles, you can iron them out, and sell for cash on the Used Wrinkles Market.


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## mbw_151

Anybody have information or an estimate of the color temperature of the Minimus Vision, is it 3000K or 4000K?


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## pjandyho

mbw_151 said:


> Anybody have information or an estimate of the color temperature of the Minimus Vision, is it 3000K or 4000K?


Not sure but I think somewhere in the 4000k range. It seems to exhibit a mix of rosy orange and blue, more like the tint of the SSC P4 high CRI.


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## mbw_151

Does it appear warme, cooler, or about the same as a stock HDS High CRI? If it is about the same, my wallet is about to loose weight.


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## pjandyho

mbw_151 said:


> Does it appear warme, cooler, or about the same as a stock HDS High CRI? If it is about the same, my wallet is about to loose weight.


It is slightly cooler but not much cooler.


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## mbw_151

So, I bought a Vision. The color rendition is very nice. The color temp is a little higher than my HDS High CRI, about like my Malkoff M61WLL which I really like. The only thing that suprised me is the increased bulk and weight over my first generation Minimus. I expected the changes to the knurling and the new battery cap but I must have missed the part about the length, diameter and weight increases. The larger diameter knob is easier to grip. The length increase doesn't increase the twisting torque noticibly. My big concern is the weight. My really cheap kitchen scale says the the first generation Minimus was 3-1/2 ounces and the Vision is 4-1/2 ounces. That's a big increase to support on just a headstrap. I'm going to use the Vision as much as I can this weekend and try and figure out if it's OK or if it needs a top strap.


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## pjandyho

Yours is warmer than the HDS high CRI? Mine looks cooler.


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## mbw_151

My mistake on the word "warmer" which I have corrected to "higher", the color does looks "cooler" than my HDS High CRI, my guess is it's in the 4200-4500K range. It is just a touch cooler looking than my HDS B42 with and SSC P4 High CRI 4000K. I think this is the same as you described.


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## Bolster

mbw_151 said:


> the Vision is 4-1/2 ounces...



Interesting. My big 2AA Spark SD52 is 4 oz.


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## Quiksilver

I have a SureFire Saint, and aside from the beam quality (can see the diode, and theres about 4 or 5 different 'things' happening in the beam when shined at a wall) its a nice light. The ability to use 1-3 CR123 cells or 2 AA cells is sweet. I use it most in Minimus form, and have been night-snorkling while wearing it. Works a charm underwater at 10ft. 

Not sure about the newer models, however I wish they'd take a note out of ZLs book and clean up the beam. Even in normal use (not white wall use) its easy to notice the crazy beam. I suppose if I didn't have a nice clean beam like my H501 I wouldn't care. 

They could start by enlarging the 'hood' surrounding the lens so that 'prismic refraction' doesn't leak out. 

Don't get me wrong, its not a game changer, its just one of those "Hmm ..." things a flashaholic would think whenever using the Saint or Minimus.


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## SikDMAX

It appears the Maximus' are for sale!!! Boy.... I really want one.... 

Anyone have one yet?

Apologies for the link


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## vtunderground

Thanks for the update on the Maximus.

The price is a bit lower than I expected (I still can't afford it, though).


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## arcel1t

mbw_151 said:


> So, I bought a Vision. The color rendition is very nice. The color temp is a little higher than my HDS High CRI, about like my Malkoff M61WLL which I really like. The only thing that suprised me is the increased bulk and weight over my first generation Minimus. I expected the changes to the knurling and the new battery cap but I must have missed the part about the length, diameter and weight increases. The larger diameter knob is easier to grip. The length increase doesn't increase the twisting torque noticibly. My big concern is the weight. My really cheap kitchen scale says the the first generation Minimus was 3-1/2 ounces and the Vision is 4-1/2 ounces. That's a big increase to support on just a headstrap. I'm going to use the Vision as much as I can this weekend and try and figure out if it's OK or if it needs a top strap.



Do you have any update to add on the vision? 
Was it ok to run with?
a short running review with the minimus vision would be much appriciated 

Regards 
Arcel1t


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## ryguy24000

Just checked the Surefire Web sight. The Maximus is listed at $265. WOW. 5.1 OZ.
That's $52 an ounce. for that price you could get 4 ZL's. I think it looks pretty cool and would like to check it out, but at that price could it really replace my Sparks?


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## wheel

ryguy24000 said:


> Just checked the Surefire Web sight. The Maximus is listed at $265. WOW. 5.1 OZ.
> That's $52 an ounce. for that price you could get 4 ZL's. I think it looks pretty cool and would like to check it out, but at that price could it really replace my Sparks?



[email protected], but still. I had the Saint but only kept it a short time because it is a two handed light. Everytime I attempted to adjust the brightness with the right hand, the tube rotated, requiring holding the tube with the left hand. I would consider the Maximus because of the warranty and durability, but would have to read a good many reviews first.


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## angelofwar

I'm looking at the maximus as well...I love my minimus...I'm not too concerned with weight, cause if it were used in any real capacity, it will be with my climbing/rescue helmet. I think SF largely intended these lights to be used with helmets...hopefully thy can get some real feed back besides from paid staffers, and make these things what they SHOULD be...


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## 276

I have had a Maximus for a few weeks and i like it way better than my minimus. I have had the same issue with my minimus where i go to angle it and the whole light moves or the very annoying beam artifacts that you see in front of you or especially the ones on the sides. The maximus of course its way brighter has a better beam with only one small beam artifact in the center.

I only notice it on white walls or if i stare at the beam to look for it otherwise i don't see it when i am using it. Its not a thrower its mostly flood, good for up close or medium range. The control knob is very grippy , don't know how to describe it, it's not knurling more like groves. The charging time from what surefire told me takes 5 hrs which is weird since i timed how long it took to charge mine and its was only about 2hrs, not sure if they made a mistake or misunderstood me when i asked. The weight of it does make it kind of floppy mainly if you shake your head or run with it.It has an opening for a top strap that would probably make it more stable though one is not included, but when i wear my hat (beanie hat) there is less movement.

alex


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## Jerimoth

I'm a park ranger/medic in New Hampshire and I used the maximus on a rescue this evening. It was fully charged, with a green indicator light, and when I rotated the brightness knob it got brighter, then suddenly went out completely. 
I usually carry 3-4 lights, including a decent headlight and a higher power light to light up an area in front of a litter, or to look for an area flat, horizontal, and large enough to land a Blackhawk or a smaller hospital-based helicopter. 
My Surefire failed, but fortunately I had a backup, though not bright enough to search for an LZ had we needed it. (We didn't, fortunately- also clouds dispersed and the nearly full moon came out.) 
Instead I used my BD Storm but was annoyed that I had invested so much to purchase what I thought was a rugged bombproof headlamp, only to have it fail in a critical situation. In the future I won't rely on it, and use my older Lupine headlight or a handheld TK35 when I need a lot of light. I would recommend others involved in similar SAR operations carry a backup headlight until Surefire addresses this problem.


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## Bill in AZ

Jerimoth said:


> ...invested so much to purchase what I thought was a rugged bombproof headlamp, only to have it fail in a critical situation. In the future I won't rely on it, and use my older Lupine headlight or a handheld TK35 when I need a lot of light. I would recommend others involved in similar SAR operations carry a backup headlight until Surefire addresses this problem.



A week ago I had a similar problem with a Surefire Saint headlamp on a critical all-night SAR mission. Delayed a helicopter several minutes fiddling with it before giving up and scrounging for an older, dimmer, inadequate backup to go along with a hand flashlight. Sent it to Surefire, will see what I get back. Was kind of eyeballing the maximus until this happened, and then read your story. I was able to get the Saint to work the next day, but not about to trust it miles away from support until Surefire takes a look at it.


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## Brasso

Will the minimus run on an rcr?


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## schurtjl

I had a similar issue with a newer SF Minimus in elk camp last fall. When I turned it off, and went to turn it back on shortly afterwards, several times it wouldn't come on at all. I was sure the battery was fine, but switched in new Surefire 123's just in case. Still couldn't get it to go on. I left it turned in the on position, and several minutes later it suddenly came on. This happened several times over a couple nights. I've never had any other of my numerous surefires fail me like that. Of course I didn't have a backup headlamp with me and had to use my LX2 instead. After talking to Surefire, they had me send it back. They ended up sending the very latest version that has the rubber attachment holding the battery cap to the headlamp. Haven't had any problems with this latest version so far.


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## Jethro

I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a Minimus. I like the design, and I know it gets a bad rep, but I'm a Surefire guy through and through. On the BattJunc web site it has the Tactical at more than $25 less than the regular Minimus. Are they not the same light for all intensive purposes?


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## pulstar

Surefire representative suggested me a solution to fix that annoying swivelling. As you maybe already found out, if you try to push two plastic parts on the side of the "lamp holder", the friction between plastic an aluminum led housing increases.
Since my english still lacks a bit of refinement, i'll try to explain what to do. I can also take a few pictures tomorrow, if you guys won't be able to understand me
This small repair shouldn't void your warranty!
Here it is:
Remove the forehead pad and slowly peel off velcro from the plastic housing. There's no need to remove it completely, just enough to you can easily see insides of the plastic headlamp holder.
There are two metal "pins" that hold two plastic parts of the housing together and push them down to create enough friction with aluminium part of the lamp. Representative told me to turn those two pins around (they're are also "surrounded" with clear rubber, that looks like wire insulation). I had no idea what she meant, but i did it my way. I stuck one really small piece of wood below that metal pin (i made some kind of micro wooden wedge). I also stuck one under the second pin. Now they push the plastic just enough to make enough friction that i can easily turn the cuntrol knob without having to secure the light with the other hand. When you're done, just stick the velcro where it was (originally applied glue will hold it in place), put the forehead pad back on it and enjoy your headlamp!


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## pulstar

BTW, i have the newer version of Minimus.


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## pulstar

What do you guys think, is the high-CRI LED enough to justify buying a new Minimus Vision? I already have cool white one...


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## mbw_151

I bought a Minimus and a backup to get thru until the Vision was released. Who knew that Surefire would be relatively expedient on the Vision release. I feel that the Vision is an improvement worth the upgrade. The color is consistent with my Ra High CRI and the Malkoff "Neutrals", my favorite lights. My unsued Minimus backup is on Marketplace. 

An update on using the Vision. The best feature is not unscrewing the battery compartment when you want to rotate the beam up or down. Adjusting the output with gloves on is way easier too. I find it is comfortable to wear for long periods of time. The "white wall artifacts" don't bother me even when I'm reading a book. It is a fine headlamp to walk with, enough throw to see down the road and enough flood to avoid the "tunnel" feeling. It does bounce a little if you run with it, unless you have the headstrap really tight. If I were going to run with it a lot, I would add a top strap like the full Saint.


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## RNDDUDE

The latest revision of the Minimus has addressed the body tension issue by replacing the two static tension pins with larger pins that have a small set screw in each pin to allow user adjustment of the tension to compensate for wear/manufacturing tolerances, the artifact issue has been eliminated by modifying the refector housing, excessive light knob tension has been adressed with internal seal changes, and the knob lengthened to improve grip. Additionally, a battery cap lanyard has been added to prevent knob dropping/loss.


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## Blindasabat

Thanks for the updates on the Vision guys. Both the use update and the info on the changes made to improve it. I actually didn't know it was out yet either. I better start saving up to get one.


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## smoses

I've been looking to get this light for a while (the 123A version)... I guess I'm glad I waited! It seems that I'll make sure that the light I buy is the latest version.


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## khalwat

I received a new Saint Minimus from my wife for Christmas. It was the older model, and it arrived damaged. We returned it to SureFire, and received the newer version of the light.

I've used it for the past month or two for running/walking, and going to/from my barn at night. I love it. It's worked great, with no hassles, the beam is plenty bright enough for my purposes, and I don't feel the weight on my forehead as being a problem.

I'm curious, what are the major differences between the minimus and the maximus?


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## Owen

mbw_151 said:


> I feel that the Vision is an improvement worth the upgrade. The color is consistent with my Ra High CRI and the Malkoff "Neutrals", my favorite lights.





RNDDUDE said:


> The latest revision of the Minimus has addressed the body tension issue by replacing the two static tension pins with larger pins that have a small set screw in each pin to allow user adjustment of the tension to compensate for wear/manufacturing tolerances, the artifact issue has been eliminated by modifying the refector housing, excessive light knob tension has been adressed with internal seal changes, and the knob lengthened to improve grip. Additionally, a battery cap lanyard has been added to prevent knob dropping/loss.


SOLD.


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## Brasso

LOL. Did I miss another sale?


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## Owen

Finally have a Minimus Vision on the way, after confirming that it is a recently shipped one with the updates. 
Should be here Friday, get used on a night hike next week, and then on vacation for a 3am start on day 1 of an extremely long overnighter the following week.
Not sure if it's the light I'm excited about, or what I'll be doing with it, but I'm looking forward to its arrival more than I do most purchases.


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## Owen

I should have been in bed almost three hours ago, but UPS came earlier than usual, and I've been comparing the Minimus to the H30w that I use while backpacking, and for night hikes, along with a couple other lights. 
Here are some initial impressions. Keep in mind I do not keep very many lights around, and therefore do not have many to compare it to.

Cons:
-It's huge. It's literally twice the length of the H30w, and .5" longer than the H60w that uses 18650s. Heavier, too. 
-It sits further off your head than a Zebralight, giving the impression of even greater size(it's comfortable, and not too heavy, thankfully, but in the mirror, you look like a rhinocerous that ran into a brick wall, and you are definitely conscious of the fact you're wearing something on your head at all times).
-The artifact issue has NOT been eliminated(isn't noticeable in use, but very obvious on a wall).
-No support for 3.7V R123s, as far as I know. Eliminates the possibility of me buying a second Vision for work if I like this one. 

Pros:
-Very high quality. Great construction.
-Ergonomics. I listed the size and sitting off your head as negatives above. The flip side is that the knurled knobs are very easy to reach and use.
-It's built like a tank. This is the stoutest headlamp I've ever seen.
-The mounting system is solid, as are adjustments to the angle of the headlamp.
-Adjustability of the brightness is fantastic. Fast, easy, infinite.
-It's dim. Lowest output is significantly lower than my Zebralight SC51Fw's L2 advertised at .16 lumens. My multimeter only reads in multiple of 10mA, so 10mA is what it shows at lowest.
-It's bright. Highest output is probably triple the SC51Fw's H1 advertised at 164 OTF lumens. Pulls about 1A at max output. 
-It's everything in between. Runtime for my use will not be an issue. My H30w on medium draws ~50mA from a CR123A, and is more than I need for night hiking. Due to the more concentrated beam, similarly usable output from the Vision draws ~30mA.

Subjective:
-The tint is hard to describe. On a wall, it varies throughout the beam, much like my Malkoff M61N(but with a different mix of color-more red, less yellow). Either way, based on taking it into the closet and looking at my clothes, color rendition looks excellent. I'll have to try it outdoors, and with a wider variety of colors. I'm a pretty drab dresser...


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## vtunderground

Owen said:


> -The headband is not removable. The pad that sits on your forehead is, but the band itself is stitched on both ends so it has to be cut off to be removed. I deleted quite the nasty rant about this before posting, but it's so unbelievably stupid, and for so many reasons, I'm having a hard time not starting over again.



Really??? Mine was removable. The plastic part that each end of the headband goes through should have a notch so that the headband can be slipped out.


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## Owen

Holy crap. It's in the middle, and I couldn't see it when I looked down in the loop. Guess who feels unbelievably stupid now? I'll have to edit that! 
Note to self: sleep first, play flashlight after...

I tried the Minimus some at work last night, but it suffered the same problem as when I tried one of my H30w Zebralights after my H60w died-not enough output without killing the battery, and made worse by not having a rechargeable option. Lots of dark areas surrounded by ones with bright ambient light, so it has to be cranked up to get much use from. I'd love to have a Saint version with a 4xAA pack for my hardhat. Not gonna hold my breath for that one, though!


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## Owen

Owen said:


> -It's dim. Lowest output is significantly lower than my Zebralight SC51Fw's L2 advertised at .16 lumens. My multimeter only reads in multiple of 10mA, so 10mA is what it shows at lowest.
> -It's bright. Highest output is probably triple the SC51Fw's H1 advertised at 164 OTF lumens. Pulls about 1A at max output.
> -It's everything in between. Runtime for my use will not be an issue. My H30w on medium draws ~50mA from a CR123A, and is more than I need for night hiking. Due to the more concentrated beam, similarly usable output from the Vision draws ~30mA.


Ok, keeping in mind these are handheld with a point and shoot camera without lockable settings, and each of these must be viewed individually-cannot view these side by side and get an accurate representation of brightness between them(white balance set with SC51Fw on high on white door, but the wall is beige, so tint is relative):

Zebralight SC51Fw(or H51Fw-should be the same) L2, rated .16 lumens vs. Minimus Vision's lowest setting:






Zebralight H30w on low, rated <4 lumen vs. Minimus Vision's lowest setting:





Zebralight SC51Fw H1, rated 164 lumens vs. Minimus Vision's highest setting:





Malkoff M60WLF, rated 100 lumens vs. Minimus Vision's highest setting:





So...yeah:thumbsup:


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## pulstar

Wow, this thing looks bright! And warm! And with quite a throw! Damn, now i am really thinking about buying minimus vision...


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## yota4by4

Bill in AZ said:


> A week ago I had a similar problem with a Surefire Saint headlamp on a critical all-night SAR mission. Delayed a helicopter several minutes fiddling with it before giving up and scrounging for an older, dimmer, inadequate backup to go along with a hand flashlight. Sent it to Surefire, will see what I get back. Was kind of eyeballing the maximus until this happened, and then read your story. I was able to get the Saint to work the next day, but not about to trust it miles away from support until Surefire takes a look at it.



This is to Jerimoth and/or Bill in AZ:
Has the problem been identified and fixed?


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## BenChiew

RNDDUDE said:


> The latest revision of the Minimus has addressed the body tension issue by replacing the two static tension pins with larger pins that have a small set screw in each pin to allow user adjustment of the tension to compensate for wear/manufacturing tolerances, the artifact issue has been eliminated by modifying the refector housing, excessive light knob tension has been adressed with internal seal changes, and the knob lengthened to improve grip. Additionally, a battery cap lanyard has been added to prevent knob dropping/loss.



Is there a way to identify the latest improved version by just looking at the lamp? or from the box?


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## Justintoxicated

Owen said:


> Ok, keeping in mind these are handheld with a point and shoot camera without lockable settings, and each of these must be viewed individually-cannot view these side by side and get an accurate representation of brightness between them(white balance set with SC51Fw on high on white door, but the wall is beige, so tint is relative):
> .....
> 
> So...yeah:thumbsup:



That looks like way more than the 75 lumens it is rated for. Is that the minimus or maximus?


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## RNDDUDE

OWEN...thanks for the pics, but I am a bit confused, of the 4 different SF headlights in the thread title, which are you alluding to? You seem to be describing a *Maximus* (the 500 lumen 18650-based rechargeable) but you say *Minimus* (C123 or AA versions) in your post. Can you clarify which you were evaluating?


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## Owen




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## Justintoxicated

Wow so the 70 lumen Minimus (CR123) actually puts out well over 164 lumens of the zebralight. Looks like over 400 lumens in the picture above, maybe more, picture looks more like my S12 vs my H51C 

Why on earth would they under-rate the light so much, I don't see how that creates a selling point for surefire.

The Maximus must be insane.


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## justchillin

I received a Maximus as a late Xmas gift from my friend a few weeks ago. It looks/feels a little bulky but it was light enough to stay strapped to my head. I charged it up til the indicator was green. Strapped it onto my head and boy is it BRIGHT!!! Compared to my Saint it's BRIGHT. It lights up the room. Anything that's 30 feet away is well lit. It has a clicky feel when adjusting it up and down. The on/off knob turns nice and smooth. Easy one handed operation. I also have the Saint and the Maximus is a big improvement!!! I would prefer to have a CR123 option just in case the built in rechargeable battery runs out.


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## Jerimoth

So far I am waiting to hear what Surefire says about the problem I reported earlier. I would be reluctant to rely on it for my primary SAR headlight sticking instead with a Lupine or PT model and several backups.


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## P_A_S_1

I have a Minimus which I basically use when I go hiking and overall I'm pretty happy with it. They're a little pricey and I think the runtime on high should be better but I like it. I do wish it had some sort of 'lock out' tail cap designed into it to prevent the light from coming on accidentally. This would have been a nice safety feature and be less of a hassle then removing the battery. Otherwise so far so good. If I was doing it again I'd probably go with the Vision, it seems similar to a M61LLW. To those that have both the Minimus & Minimus Vision if you don't mind posting I would like to see a comparison shot of the beams.


----------



## Owen

P_A_S_1 said:


> I do wish it had some sort of 'lock out' tail cap designed into it to prevent the light from coming on accidentally. This would have been a nice safety feature and be less of a hassle then removing the battery. Otherwise so far so good.


My Vision came on accidentally last week while riding in a hipbelt pocket on my pack in anticipation of being used. Fortunately, it was at the very lowest setting. My solution is keeping it in the Oakley "Soft Vault" case that gets used for my sunglasses. I wear sunglasses right up to sunset, so when it gets dark, they go in the case, and the headlamp comes out. Works out pretty well. I don't think I'll be needing both at the same time!


----------



## Bill in AZ

yota4by4 said:


> This is to Jerimoth and/or Bill in AZ:
> Has the problem been identified and fixed?



I received a replacement Surefire Saint. Have had a couple of long duration nighttime SAR's and it worked fine. Last Saturday I had another all nighter, quite a bit of it in water in a deep canyon. It was never submersed due to PFD, though very likely splashed a few times. Towards morning it powered itself off occasionally - a bit disconcerting in a deep, dark canyon. Possibly due to low battery, though my previous light simply went dim when battery went low. Played with it a bit before putting in new batteries. If I turned it on fairly low, it would stay on for a while, then randomly cycle off, but if I turned it up all the way it would flash 3 times, then remain on at high setting instead of going dim. I have done some searching to see if this is expected behavior, but haven't found anything yet. Found some references to if it gets hot it may power itself off, though it did not feel hot, and it was a cool night in the low 40's. I had run it on its highest setting all night due to a tricky water rescue.

Does anyone know what the behavior of a Surefire Saint should be? Either overheating or maybe when the battery gets low? I think I would much prefer the light simply go dim rather than power off.


----------



## Jerimoth

This is all very worrisome from a SAR perspective. When you head off with your 24-hour pack you know you might actually be gone for longer than that, and everything- from your insulation to your crampons to your ropes, biners, and pro- all need to bomber. You have to pack light enough that you're not exhausted after a carry-out and you don't become a patient yourself. 

Also, if you're being picked up by a regular medical helicopter - e.g. something other than a national guard Blackhawk, and inserted on scene, every ounce counts - you're expected to know your own weight and the weight of your pack so extras of anything are a problem. For now I'm waiting to hear what GoingGear has to say- they told me they are awaiting word from Surefire. For now I'll stick with other lights that I know are bombproof.


----------



## Bill in AZ

I had an older handheld Surefire 9P (I think) with me all night and it *was* submerged for several hours. It also quit by morning, though it did not appear to be wet inside. I got it working again next day by scraping the outer contact of the switch, and running emery cloth over the mating side on the flashlight body.

I sent an email to Surefire asking about the odd behavior of the Saint. Hope to get an answer soon, as SAR season is off to a busy start. What's your bombproof headlamp, and is it waterproof?


----------



## Jerimoth

I have a Petzl Ultra - I'm not sure the exact name of the model, but I'm impressed with the lithium battery and how long it lasts. Seems very rugged and has survived dense rain, and snow but I've never dropped it in the water. It's a bit on the heavy side, so I was optimistic about the Surefire which I think is lighter, and I have always had great success with older Surefires. 

I had a bicycle light- Light-in Motion model 200, I think it's name was, that was actually pretty bombproof, and lightweight. It was stolen when I ditched my pack to respond to a heart attack with an O2 tank and AED and had to lighten my load- somebody stole my pack and I lost that light- which actually I think seemed more bomber than the Petzl- and a GPS unit, and a uniform jacket, sleeping bag, and bivi sack, among other things. 

I also have a Lupine halogen - not sure of the name but it's not made any more- so I'm saving up for maybe another Lupine model if the Surefire really doesn't work out. As a backup I use the Black Diamond Storm- which so far as survived a number of nights in the snow- not in New hampshire where I work but on vacation in the Andes- in NH we didn't get much snow this winter. So, I'd rank the high output headlights, in terms of being bombproof:
Light in Motion
Petzl Ultra or Lupine
Black Diamond- waterproof but not as beefy as the others.
I also carry a few mini coleman headlights- el cheapo but very light weight- afterall there was a time when the 3 LED Petzl Tikka was all one really needed for most rescues or for alpine climbing. 
The need for more throw and flood, now that it's available, isn't overwhelming- In fifteen years I've never ever found someone with a bright light- oddly called in this forum "the SAR light" because in New Hampshire the trees are so dense that for most of us it's always been with air scent dogs or a whistle or a FLIR on a helicopter- but still it's nice to be able to light up an area to see if it'd make a good LZ, or light up an area in front of a litter team to figure out where the trail is, or where there are various obstacles such as downed trees and waterbars. Oddly, I think the most important thing it does is makes it clear that I'm in charge! Sometimes after an exhausting rescue I don't want to have be yelling at people- rescues work much better when people cooperate and aren't overly driven by testosterone. Slow is smooth- smooth is fast, and I'd rather keep it mellow and not have to deal with people who think they're in charge when they're not- we call it the Mr. Rescue syndrome. So I think lumen firepower is actually similar to other ways of asserting authority- a badge, a gun, etc. - it helps assert authority. 

The other use of the new breed of LED lights is unrelated to SAR - it's in park law enforcement- coming on a campsite where people are rowdy and drunk and disturbing others- and I'm alone-they can't see me because of the campfire- an insanely bright handheld light to the eyes has a way of sending people scurrying to their tents. I turn up my radio volume and they don't know much but they know I'm not alone.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Was able to check out the Minimus Vision in a sporting goods store today. It was hard to really get a good idea of the brightness and color due to the bright store lighting but overall it was nice. Better then the standard Minimus. They also had the older style Minimus there to compare it with. One things for sure is the original style was definitely a smaller package. While I prefer the feel of the newer model I do wish they kept the size the same. The newer seems large and bulky in comparison. Surefire should strive to make the next generations of the Minimus similar in size to the original, similar in build quality to the current model, better runtime (think HDS), and some how incorporate a 'lock out' battery cap. That and lowering their price point slightly to be more competitive and I think they would have something special. Wishful thinking  ?


----------



## cland72

My Minimus Vision shipped today, and I am excited to get it. After reading this thread I'm definitely going to carry my Petzl Tactikka as a backup until I'm comfortable with the SF's reliability (which is why I bought it in the first place).


----------



## pjandyho

If you read the starting page of this thread you will notice that I gave quite a negative feedback on the Minimus Vision. All these have changed over time. In actual use, the beam artifact is not really an issue unless white wall hunting. As for the squeaky rotary switch, Surefire got it sorted out for me so it is now no longer squeaky. I admit that I hadn't used the headlamp much when I first got it, but ever since it came back from SF I have been using it frequently and boy do I love it now.

It has a very nice warmish tint suitable for outdoors usage and the rotating switch dial makes it a breeze to change output levels although sometimes I still get annoyed by the fact that I am always accidentally grabbing onto my hair while rotating the dial. Maybe I really need to get myself a GI haircut to really enjoy this light but it is still bearable. Also, I prefer the SF headband over the ones supplied by Zebralight as it felt more stable and doesn't allow too much wobble on my head. Though I still like my Zebralight headlamps, I find myself going for the Minimus Vision more and more. During a five days field exercise in the Army, I have been using the Minimus Vision every night for cooking and reading during my free time, and since I frequently use it on medium or lower outputs, the single CR123 lasted the five days and more when I continue to use it for some of my personal camping trips. Definitely efficient enough for my usage.


----------



## skyfire

thanks for the updates...
i keep coming back to the minimus vision, and its good to know about long term user experiences with it.
i might just have to finally get it and try it out for myself.


----------



## pjandyho

skyfire said:


> thanks for the updates...
> i keep coming back to the minimus vision, and its good to know about long term user experiences with it.
> i might just have to finally get it and try it out for myself.


Maybe you might be disappointed and then maybe you might be like me, only learning to appreciate it much later on? But then again it is also highly possible that you will love it? As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks. It is definitely a nice and tough illumination tool. I say go for it.


----------



## cland72

pjandyho said:


> If you read the starting page of this thread you will notice that I gave quite a negative feedback on the Minimus Vision. All these have changed over time. In actual use, the beam artifact is not really an issue unless white wall hunting. As for the squeaky rotary switch, Surefire got it sorted out for me so it is now no longer squeaky. I admit that I hadn't used the headlamp much when I first got it, but ever since it came back from SF I have been using it frequently and boy do I love it now.
> 
> It has a very nice warmish tint suitable for outdoors usage and the rotating switch dial makes it a breeze to change output levels although sometimes I still get annoyed by the fact that I am always accidentally grabbing onto my hair while rotating the dial. Maybe I really need to get myself a GI haircut to really enjoy this light but it is still bearable. Also, I prefer the SF headband over the ones supplied by Zebralight as it felt more stable and doesn't allow too much wobble on my head. Though I still like my Zebralight headlamps, I find myself going for the Minimus Vision more and more. During a five days field exercise in the Army, I have been using the Minimus Vision every night for cooking and reading during my free time, and since I frequently use it on medium or lower outputs, the single CR123 lasted the five days and more when I continue to use it for some of my personal camping trips. Definitely efficient enough for my usage.



I read the entire thread (and another one on the Minimus) and it does seem that over time SF worked out the kinks so that puts me at ease. But still, when I see stuff like this I wonder "what sort of problems will mine have that may not be worked out?". At least I know what to look for, and if mine has problems SF will make it right.


----------



## skyfire

pjandyho said:


> Maybe you might be disappointed and then maybe you might be like me, only learning to appreciate it much later on? But then again it is also highly possible that you will love it? As the saying goes, different strokes for different folks. It is definitely a nice and tough illumination tool. I say go for it.



so has anybody found out what emitter surefire is using for the vision model?

is the rated 75 lumens enough for outdoor use? i got my fingers crossed that surefire under-rated it. 
Owen posted that the vision is 3x brighter than the SC51w. any estimate of actual lumens coming out of it?
i had a H31w XP-E and H51w, and i didnt like the narrow hotspots. the vision's hotspot looks nice and wide, but still offering decent throw. could its beam be compared to the LX2? but with an even wider hotspot?

ive been waiting for the H502w, but ive never been a big fan of zebralights UI. plus, ive been wanting a headlamp that uses primaries for awhile, since all my other lights use CR123.


----------



## pjandyho

cland72 said:


> I read the entire thread (and another one on the Minimus) and it does seem that over time SF worked out the kinks so that puts me at ease. But still, when I see stuff like this I wonder "what sort of problems will mine have that may not be worked out?". At least I know what to look for, and if mine has problems SF will make it right.


Other than the artifact in the beam, there isn't any other problems that I have encountered. Unfortunately, Surefire told me that the artifact in the beam is normal and within the design specs. Like I said above, I am used to the slight artifact in the beam and it really is not an issue in actual use.


----------



## pjandyho

skyfire said:


> so has anybody found out what emitter surefire is using for the vision model?
> 
> is the rated 75 lumens enough for outdoor use? i got my fingers crossed that surefire under-rated it.
> Owen posted that the vision is 3x brighter than the SC51w. any estimate of actual lumens coming out of it?
> i had a H31w XP-E and H51w, and i didnt like the narrow hotspots. the vision's hotspot looks nice and wide, but still offering decent throw. could its beam be compared to the LX2? but with an even wider hotspot?
> 
> ive been waiting for the H502w, but ive never been a big fan of zebralights UI. plus, ive been wanting a headlamp that uses primaries for awhile, since all my other lights use CR123.



I doubt anyone could assuredly say what emitter is in the Minimus Vision, but a speculation would be that SF is using the SSC P4 high CRI in there. I tend to believe this is true since the tint color seem quite similar to that of my legacy high CRI HDS clicky.

As for the output, I would say that it is enough for my own outdoor use. Looks to be brighter than 75 lumen for sure but I don't think it is 3 times brighter than the SC51w. Personally I have compared it to the H51Fw and they seem almost the same in brightness. The beam is definitely very different from the LX2. Minimus is more of a flood light with slightly lesser than moderate throw whereas the LX2 is a throw light with very focused beam and little side spill. In my opinion, they both compliment each other quite well.


----------



## ProofTech

I’ve had a Minimus Vision for a little over a month now and have been very happy with it. I, like many others, can see an artifact in the beam while white wall hunting, but I never notice it while I’m actually using the headlamp.

I can see the emitter in my Minimus Vision very well through the optic and I have no doubt the emitter is an XR-E.

Paul


----------



## skyfire

ProofTech said:


> I’ve had a Minimus Vision for a little over a month now and have been very happy with it. I, like many others, can see an artifact in the beam while white wall hunting, but I never notice it while I’m actually using the headlamp.
> 
> I can see the emitter in my Minimus Vision very well through the optic and I have no doubt the emitter is an XR-E.
> 
> Paul



good to know of another happy user, im pretty set on picking one up, just cant find one of our CPF dealers that has it in stock.
XR-E? it is a popular LED for surefire.
Owen also said its pulling about 1amp on max, any reports of the headlamp ever getting hot or uncomfortably warm?


----------



## pjandyho

ProofTech said:


> I’ve had a Minimus Vision for a little over a month now and have been very happy with it. I, like many others, can see an artifact in the beam while white wall hunting, but I never notice it while I’m actually using the headlamp.
> 
> I can see the emitter in my Minimus Vision very well through the optic and I have no doubt the emitter is an XR-E.
> 
> Paul


Glad you like your Minimus too. Any hints on how you came to the conclusion that it is an XR-E in there? Is it because you see a silver ring around? I can't seem to find any indication of the ring.


----------



## ProofTech

pjandyho, it’s hard for me to tell that there’s a metal ring in there, but I can see everything inside of the ring without too much trouble. I can see a rectangular heat spreader under the square die, two gold wires attached to the die, two other wires attached to the heat spreader, and silver/gray stuff surrounding the die that forms a circle that’s split into two unequally sized parts by a line that follows one of the long edges of the heat spreader.

Paul


----------



## pjandyho

ProofTech said:


> pjandyho, it’s hard for me to tell that there’s a metal ring in there, but I can see everything inside of the ring without too much trouble. I can see a rectangular heat spreader under the square die, two gold wires attached to the die, two other wires attached to the heat spreader, and silver/gray stuff surrounding the die that forms a circle that’s split into two unequally sized parts by a line that follows one of the long edges of the heat spreader.
> 
> Paul


Now that you mentioned, I think you may be right. I am trying very hard to look through the fresnel optic at the LED and it has a square shape quite similar to any from Cree. Anyone who has owned a light with an SSC emitter would know that they don't look the same. I also seem to notice a slight hint of a metallic ring circling the LED die which is quite similar to the ones found on an XR-E.

I remember someone mentioned that a representative from SF told him in the SHOT Show that it is a high CRI emitter. I don't remember Cree ever making any high CRI XR-E. Could that guy have misinterpreted the message? Maybe the SF rep said something like "we are using a warm tint LED which gives a higher CRI" and not "we are using a high CRI emitter"?


----------



## Owen

Shine it on a wall. The projected image of the die is clearly that of a XR-E.
Cree's datasheet shows no "high CRI" version, but that the warm whites are 80 CRI. Maybe it's one of those, or a 3700K neutral(?). 
Can't say that it matters to me, since the light seems to work the same as it did yesterday...


----------



## pjandyho

Owen said:


> Shine it on a wall. The projected image of the die is clearly that of a XR-E.
> Cree's datasheet shows no "high CRI" version, but that the warm whites are 80 CRI. Maybe it's one of those, or a 3700K neutral(?).
> Can't say that it matters to me, since the light seems to work the same as it did yesterday...


Agree with you Owen.

Andy


----------



## ProofTech

I just returned from a two-night camping trip along the Middle Fork of the Boise River. I used my Minimus Vision headlamp around the camp at night and it was absolutely awesome to use. Its simple and infinitely adjustable user interface, warm tint, ability to go well below one lumen, and floody (but not too floody, which would waste lumens) beam make it the best headlamp on the market for camping in my opinion. The fact that it’s made by Surefire also gives me some piece of mind. And despite its max output being rated at only 75 lumens, I never felt myself wishing it was brighter.

I only have two very minor gripes with the Minimus Vision. It’s a bit heavy for its size, but it’s still very comfortable to wear. And there’s no way to lock-out the switch to prevent it from turning on while transporting it, so removing the battery is the only way to lock-it-out. But these two issues really don’t bother me much. I’m very happy with the Minimus Vision, and would not want to trade it for any other headlamp.

Paul


----------



## BenChiew

Fully agree with you. I prefer the vision over the stock minimus. 
I had a bit of problem with the dial getting stuck. Sent it to Surefire and they sent me a new one. 
I am sticking with Surefire for sure. 
Great peace of mind buying into Surefire.


----------



## skyfire

i just received my vision yesterday right before leaving my house to help a friend move some furniture to his cabin. 

so i handed him my H501w, and i tried out the vision.  after about 20 minutes, i started to feel its weight, its not heavy, but heavier than i would like for a headlamp.
it is pretty comfortable to wear on the head though. it being lighter would make it more so though. 

the beam is very acceptable. on a white wall i notice its imperfections, but during use the beam works very well. it a flood beam with a little intensity.
tint is just a tad warmer than my h501w. more of a rosy hue when compared.

the control ring on mine is a bit stiff. when turning it while wearing the headlamp, i had to use both hands. 1 hand to turn, and the other to hold down the battery compartment. i am able to just use 1 hand to operate, but it requires me to push the headlamp against my head to help hold it down, but its somewhat of a clumsy way of doing it.
will the control ring get easier to turn with more use?

EDIT: my vision started to make squeaky noises, i used a tiny drop of hoppe's lubricating oil in the control ring, and it fixed everything. the control ring now turns much easier and smoother, and no more squeaks.

i used the vision on max output for at least 20 minutes. it felt just a tiny bit warm. :twothumbs i would feel very comfortable using it on max until the battery drained. 

build construction is solid. quality plastic, and precisely made. definitely gives me peace of mind. enough to even order it from a certain auction site because our cpf dealers dont have it in stock. surefires warranty and backing also gave me the courage to order from a seller thats unknown to me.

like Prooftech said, the LED looks very much like a XR-E.
just some of my first impressions and observations.


----------



## cland72

My minimus vision didn't have enough friction to keep the unit from turning when turning the light off or on. I called surefire and the two adjustment Allen screws behind the velcro pad are 0.035 inch in case anyone needs to adjust tension. 

Posted using Tapatalk on my HTC Evo


----------



## skyfire

cland72 said:


> My minimus vision didn't have enough friction to keep the unit from turning when turning the light off or on. I called surefire and the two adjustment Allen screws behind the velcro pad are 0.035 inch in case anyone needs to adjust tension.
> 
> Posted using Tapatalk on my HTC Evo



that might help me adjust the brightness w/o it rotating the angle of the light. thanks.
my allen wrench set doesnt even go that small LoL. going to have to check he toolbag in my trunk for it. if not, ill just take the headlamp to home depot or something and adjust it there 

i spent about 5 minutes turning it off and on last night to try and loosen up the control ring, and my thumbs are feeling it today. 
the control ring isnt so stiff it doesnt turn, but its just stiffer than i would like.

does anybody else vision feel that way? this is the only minimus ive tried, im wondering if its normal, or is mine abnormal?


----------



## Raptor Factor

Is it disheartening to anyone that the new Surefire Maximus boast a "Tough, lightweight magnesium body with durable black finish"? is this as durable as the mil spec type III hard anodized aerospace aluminum normally seen in surefires?


----------



## cland72

Raptor Factor said:


> Is it disheartening to anyone that the new Surefire Maximus boast a "Tough, lightweight magnesium body with durable black finish"? is this as durable as the mil spec type III hard anodized aerospace aluminum normally seen in surefires?



That is interesting... The Minimus does mention "High-strength aerospace aluminum body, Mil-Spec hard-anodized for extreme durability", but the Maximus does not. I would call Surefire for clarification, as I would expect the more expensive headlamp should be HA as well.


----------



## Owen

I had to google, because I couldn't remember the differences, and when I did semi-remember them, they weren't in relation to use as a flashlight body('course the quotes aren't, either...).

_ Magnesium alloys increasingly replace aluminum, zinc, and other materials in structural automotive parts because they are much lighter. Magnesium's low density significantly reduces weight by volume compared to aluminum and zinc. Magnesium is 33% lighter than aluminum and just about a quarter the weight of zinc. Yet magnesium has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of all structural metals, except for titanium. 

Its density is only slightly above that of plastic, but its high (72 W/m-K) thermal conductivity lets it dissipate heat more effectively. This makes magnesium a better candidate for parts that see elevated temperatures where creep is a concern. Additionally, magnesium damps out vibration and noise, resists impacts and dents, and is fully recyclable._

_Magnesium, when compared to aluminum, is softer and more expensive, and has the tendency to bend easily.

Magnesium also requires a protective coating to save it from corrosion. Magnesium used for lightweight component applications largely depends upon casting technology, for magnesium is less costly and has low environmental hazards. Magnesium has potential benefits for the environment and better design options when compared to aluminum, since it is lighter in weight and can be substituted for aluminum transmission case applications_


----------



## Solscud007

I had put two 14500 in my Saint and it screwed something up. Now it isnt as bright. So I sent my Saint back and they replaced it with the newer saint. It has knurling on the knobs and the Minimus adapter is now just a tailcap and the battery tube is built into the light.

They forgot to include the clips for the top headstrap and is sending me a new one.

Is the new battery pack, from the saint, compatible with the other minimus lights?


----------



## Raptor Factor

OK thanks Owen, so magnesium is a good material for a lightweight light such as a head lamp I guess. Still aluminum is tried and true...


----------



## skyfire

did a runtime test on max with my vision, using a fresh rayovac primary.

got 2 hours and 28 minutes without any significant drop in output.
at the 2 hours 28 minute mark it flashed twice. and about every minute after that it flashed 2 or 3 times again.
at the 2 hours 34 minute mark it went into a constant slow flashing.

so i dialed down the output, and it still works on the lower outputs, with about 50% brightness still.

after letting the cell cool off for about 10-15 minutes, it measured at 2.52 volts.
put it back into the light, cranked it to max, and a few seconds later it flashed 2 times again.
i turned down the brightness just a little and after about 1 minute it shut off.
so next i turned the dial about 50% of its travel.... im thinking it can go on pretty long like this... but ill be back to report.

edit: it lasted through the night, but when i woke up in the morning it was dead...
so 2 hours and 28 minutes on max... i would say this headlamp is an over-achiever :thumbsup:

another note: for the 2.5 hours of max brightness the headlamp only got warm while sitting on the desk.


----------



## Policecar

Raptor Factor said:


> OK thanks Owen, so magnesium is a good material for a lightweight light such as a head lamp I guess. Still aluminum is tried and true...



No, magnesium is a poor choice. Magnesium when compared to aluminum is weaker, more prone to corrosion, less thermally conductive, and can not be hard anodized. Anodizing converts the surface of aluminum to aluminum oxide, which is very hard and wear resistant. Magnesium does not perform this trick nearly as well so the process is not as common with magnesium. The Maximus is probably just painted.


----------



## Policecar

I haven't seen much mention of the Maximus' integral rechargeable battery. I don't see the logic with this design. When the battery dies you need to replace your headlamp with a fresh one instead of a fresh battery. That's a deal breaker for me. That and the no so great 1m waterproof rating.


----------



## cland72

Policecar said:


> I haven't seen much mention of the Maximus' integral rechargeable battery. I don't see the logic with this design. When the battery dies you need to replace your headlamp with a fresh one instead of a fresh battery. That's a deal breaker for me. That and the no so great 1m waterproof rating.



Agreed. In my opinion all rechargeable lighting solutions (and communication devices) should come with an option to run on primaries. Not sure why Surefire thought the Maximus was a good idea.


----------



## RobertM

I have an original Saint Minimus (no knurling on the dials) and have a few questions for owners of the Saint Minimus Vision:

1. Is the Vision's minimum output lower than the minimum output of an original Minimus?
2. How about maximum output? I see that it's rated at 75 vs the original Mimimus' 100 lumens, but many here are saying that it seems way underrated. Is it's max output similar to an original Minimus or better?
3. How is the Vision's low mode compared to a SF T1A Titan or an HDS EDC's 0.07 low mode?

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## skyfire

completed a runtime test on the vision's lowest output using a fresh rayovac primary.
sometime in between 103 hours and 111 hours the headlamp went out.
depleted cell measured at 2.26 volts.


----------



## tygger

Been using my new Minimus Vision (on AW LiPO's) for a few days. Like others said, its a bit heavy. The adjustable brightness is fantastic and the tint is surprisingly nice. Up till now I've only been using my Zebralight H501w. As a pair, these headlamps really complement eachother. I agree there should be a lockout feature. BTW, I purchased a micro hex wrench set on Amazon for 6 bucks.


----------



## Sean

RobertM said:


> I have an original Saint Minimus (no knurling on the dials) and have a few questions for owners of the Saint Minimus Vision:
> 
> 2. How about maximum output? I see that it's rated at 75 vs the original Mimimus' 100 lumens, but many here are saying that it seems way underrated. Is it's max output similar to an original Minimus or better?
> 
> Thanks,
> Robert



I just got my Minimus Vision and according to my measurements it's right at 75 lumens. My original Titan T1A measures about 81 lumens (it's rated at 70). I was hoping for more, but obviously there is a reason it was rated at 75 lumens.


----------



## RobertM

Sean said:


> I just got my Minimus Vision and according to my measurements it's right at 75 lumens. My original Titan T1A measures about 81 lumens (it's rated at 70). I was hoping for more, but obviously there is a reason it was rated at 75 lumens.



Thanks for the info regarding the Vision's maximum output. How does its lowest output compare to the Titan's lowest setting?

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## Sean

RobertM said:


> Thanks for the info regarding the Vision's maximum output. How does its lowest output compare to the Titan's lowest setting?
> 
> Thanks,
> Robert



They seem to be very close. I would say that the Minimus is slightly brighter on it's lowest setting.


----------



## RobertM

Sean said:


> They seem to be very close. I would say that the Minimus is slightly brighter on it's lowest setting.


That's awesome! I have an original Minimus and it's lowest setting is considerable brighter than my T1A on its lowest. It sounds like SF has been able to get the Saints to go lower now.


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## RobertM

Does anyone have any outdoor beamshots of the Minimus Vision? Or even better, any outdoor beamshots of the Vision compared to the original Minimus?


----------



## pulstar

+1, i'm really interested how it differs from original Minimus


----------



## Quiksilver

Bill in AZ said:


> I received a replacement Surefire Saint. Have had a couple of long duration nighttime SAR's and it worked fine. Last Saturday I had another all nighter, quite a bit of it in water in a deep canyon. It was never submersed due to PFD, though very likely splashed a few times. Towards morning it powered itself off occasionally - a bit disconcerting in a deep, dark canyon. Possibly due to low battery, though my previous light simply went dim when battery went low. Played with it a bit before putting in new batteries. If I turned it on fairly low, it would stay on for a while, then randomly cycle off, but if I turned it up all the way it would flash 3 times, then remain on at high setting instead of going dim. I have done some searching to see if this is expected behavior, but haven't found anything yet. Found some references to if it gets hot it may power itself off, though it did not feel hot, and it was a cool night in the low 40's. I had run it on its highest setting all night due to a tricky water rescue.
> 
> Does anyone know what the behavior of a Surefire Saint should be? Either overheating or maybe when the battery gets low? I think I would much prefer the light simply go dim rather than power off.



If it's on High for awhile and it is not hot, then that indicates a problem with heat-sinking, temperature management. 

It means theres an air/insulator pocket around the diode, which is heating up and not dissipating heat outward to the rest of the light.

If that is true, then your light could definitely be overheating and you would never feel it.

If that is the case, its a serious design flaw.


----------



## RNDDUDE

Maximus details: housing is metal injection molded (not machined), then first coated with tagnite (a corrosion inhibitor) followed by an e-coat. Battery is an internal, not user-replaceable 18650. Unit accepts an optional over-top-of head strap ala Saint for additional security (I recommend it). Additional runtime can be gained by connecting an external battery pack (not SF available) to the unit via the charging port.

Many posters seem to be confusing the MAXIMUS with the SAINT. The Saint can be run with either AA or 123's, but not the Maximus, which is rechargeable only.


----------



## ProofTech

Last night I did a runtime test on my Minimus Vision headlamp with a brand new Energizer battery that was made in 2010.

It ran at maximum output for 1 hour and 58 minutes before flashing 2 or 3 times quickly. The output did not appear to drop at all before this first flash. After that, it started to get dimmer and dimmer very slowly and every minute or so, it would turn off and then back on. The first off period lasted for probably 2 seconds, but each subsequent off period would last a little longer than the one before it.

For reference:
My headlamp: 1h 58m until first flash
Skyfire’s headlamp: 2h 28m until first flash
Surefire’s specification: 1h 30m until output drops to 50 lumens


----------



## cland72

ProofTech said:


> Last night I did a runtime test on my Minimus Vision headlamp with a brand new Energizer battery that was made in 2010.
> 
> It ran at maximum output for 1 hour and 58 minutes before flashing 2 or 3 times quickly. The output did not appear to drop at all before this first flash. After that, it started to get dimmer and dimmer very slowly and every minute or so, it would turn off and then back on. The first off period lasted for probably 2 seconds, but each subsequent off period would last a little longer than the one before it.
> 
> For reference:
> My headlamp: 1h 58m until first flash
> Skyfire’s headlamp: 2h 28m until first flash
> Surefire’s specification: 1h 30m until output drops to 50 lumens



Did you turn the knob down from maximum, and did that prevent the light from shutting off?


----------



## ProofTech

cland72 said:


> Did you turn the knob down from maximum, and did that prevent the light from shutting off?



Yes and Yes. After the battery can no longer sustain maximum output, the headlamp will still run at a reduced output for quite a while without blinking or shutting off.

Paul


----------



## RNDDUDE

Some Minimus tidbits...a difficult-to-turn knob can be easily fixed with a micro-dose of WD40. Spray a bit on a Q-tip and dab at the knob/bracket interface, it does wonders. Lowest light setting is indeed lower (software modification) than of previous Minimus versions. The angle adjustment tension is indeed adjustable via a very small hex wrench, and there is a notch molded in the bracket under the pad to store the wrench there if desired.


----------



## pjandyho

RNDDUDE said:


> Some Minimus tidbits...a difficult-to-turn knob can be easily fixed with a micro-dose of WD40. Spray a bit on a Q-tip and dab at the knob/bracket interface, it does wonders. Lowest light setting is indeed lower (software modification) than of previous Minimus versions. The angle adjustment tension is indeed adjustable via a very small hex wrench, and there is a notch molded in the bracket under the pad to store the wrench there if desired.


Would WD40 be too corrosive for the O ring in the knob? I am not sure but I thought there has to be an O ring in there to prevent water ingress when used under rainy conditions?


----------



## RNDDUDE

Policecar said:


> No, magnesium is a poor choice. Magnesium when compared to aluminum is weaker, more prone to corrosion, less thermally conductive, and can not be hard anodized. Anodizing converts the surface of aluminum to aluminum oxide, which is very hard and wear resistant. Magnesium does not perform this trick nearly as well so the process is not as common with magnesium. The Maximus is probably just painted.



It is not quite that simple, actually. First, Aluminum and/or Magnesium are never used in their pure state, but as alloys. Ironically, 6000 series aluminum has some magnesium in it, and castable magnesium has some aluminum in it. Generally speaking, magnesium has BETTER strength than aluminum. Pure magnesium naturally formes a protective oxide coating all by itself, but mag products typically have one of a number of additional anti-corrosion treatments. You are correct in that it cannot be 'hard anodized', as that is a aluminum-specific treatment. There are however magnesium treatments that do essentially the same thing, although not quite as durable as hard-anodizing. Some of the newest magnesium hardness and anti-corrosion treatments are Tagnite and 
Anomag http://www.ihccorp.com/?gclid=CIOhldXN9LICFYeDQgod4hEAng I believe Tagnite is used on the Maximus before the final black color coating.


----------



## RNDDUDE

pjandyho said:


> Would WD40 be too corrosive for the O ring in the knob? I am not sure but I thought there has to be an O ring in there to prevent water ingress when used under rainy conditions?



There are actually two o-rings, one is buna-n (rubber) and the second is teflon. The WD40 should pose no problems to the oring, but because of it's very strong penetrating properties, it should be used very sparingly so that it does not wick past the rings and into the internal components. DO NOT just spray the knob, that is way too much lube. Do a transfer technique from a swab or the corner of a tissue.


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## pjandyho

RNDDUDE said:


> There are actually two o-rings, one is buna-n (rubber) and the second is teflon. The WD40 should pose no problems to the oring, but because of it's very strong penetrating properties, it should be used very sparingly so that it does not wick past the rings and into the internal components. DO NOT just spray the knob, that is way too much lube. Do a transfer technique from a swab or the corner of a tissue.


Thanks. I don't have WD40 right now, but I am sure NanoLube should do the job too. Am I right?


----------



## RNDDUDE

From what I understand, NanoLube is really designed for metal to metal use, so i'm not so sure this would be an appropriate application for it.


----------



## BenChiew

How about krytox?


----------



## pjandyho

RNDDUDE said:


> From what I understand, NanoLube is really designed for metal to metal use, so i'm not so sure this would be an appropriate application for it.


This is what I read too but I haven't been having any issues so far with NanoLube.


----------



## dougie

I've a second generation Minimus and just bought one of the recently discontinued Saints. I've had the Minimus for over a year now and never had a problem with it. I've personally not found the weight or size to be a problem and the issue over artifacts affecting the beam also isn't a problem as I don't hunt out white walls...lol. :naughty: The only thing which bugs me about both the Minimus and the Saint is the lack of a lockout for transportation but for me it isn't too much of a pain to insert a battery just before use. The reports of the unreliability of the Saint is something I'll keep an eye out for but I'm hoping it's relatively uncommon and those guys who have had problems are just unlucky? I wholeheartedly agree that it is very irritating that as the Saint cost comparatively quite a bit more than most other headlights it should of been very rare to have had any problems! Whilst the build quality for the Saint seems very good I can't say that I like the way the battery cable enters into the cap which in turn screws into the battery compartment. The cable does appear susceptible to being stressed and seems very likely to become damaged from twisting when the cap is either screwed into or out of the lamp body. As Surefire warns users to be careful when screwing the cap in or out they obviously knew it represented a potential problem? It seems a pity therefore that it couldn't have been avoided entirely by the installation of a water resistant plug which would've allowed the cap to have been screwed in to light without being stressed before being reconnected to the battery cable? It would also have allowed the battery box to have been positioned somewhere else with an extension cable depending on the users preference? Whilst I can imagine there is extra potential for water ingress into a plug connection and additional manufacturing costs involved it would have made the Saint so much more versatile.


----------



## Bolster

RNDDUDE said:


> ...a difficult-to-turn knob can be easily fixed with a micro-dose of WD40...



I dunno. Personally I would not use WD40, it is a water displacement agent. (It's also known to attack plastic.) I don't think I'd want to use an agent specifically designed to spread water about. I'd be more inclined to use some sort of stay-put grease product. 

I've also seen reports that WD40 is hygroscopic, ie, that it actually attracts moisture to itself. It also attracts dirt. WD40 is really more of a cleaner/degreaser/solvent.

Among the paintball crowd, they won't use WD40 because "it melts the seals" in the gun (probably due to the acetone it is reported to contain). WD40 also attacks polycarbonate and lexan. It will also break down any existing lubricant (due to its solvent properties) so it will remove factory-applied lubrication.


----------



## lumen aeternum

RNDDUDE said:


> Maximus details:...Additional runtime can be gained by connecting an external battery pack (not SF available) to the unit via the charging port.



Is that available from some 3rd party? Or would you do something like wire several batteries in parallel, and have to figure out the type of connector to fit the recepticle?

***
Can anyone compare the color of the beam to the Zebralight H502d CRI daylight?
http://www.zebralight.com/H502d-High-CRI-Daylight-tint-AA-Flood-Headlamp_p_96.html

And what is the beam angle of the Surefires? The 120 degree spread of the zebra is appealing to me. But the UI is insane. Zebra needs to adopt the "dial-a-level" style.


----------



## TwitchALot

> Last night I did a runtime test on my Minimus Vision headlamp with a brand new Energizer battery that was made in 2010.
> 
> It ran at maximum output for 1 hour and 58 minutes before flashing 2 or 3 times quickly. The output did not appear to drop at all before this first flash. After that, it started to get dimmer and dimmer very slowly and every minute or so, it would turn off and then back on. The first off period lasted for probably 2 seconds, but each subsequent off period would last a little longer than the one before it.
> 
> For reference:
> My headlamp: 1h 58m until first flash
> Skyfire’s headlamp: 2h 28m until first flash
> Surefire’s specification: 1h 30m until output drops to 50 lumens



Damn, it looks like I lost the LED lottery - mine runs for 1 hr 48 min before the first flash.  Starting voltage of the SF CR123A (Exp 09-2021) was 3.051 V, ending voltage after the first flash after some rest was 2.676 V.


----------



## P_A_S_1

The Minimus is suppose to blink three times when the voltage gets low, a low battery warning. Does this only happen when a fresh battery is installed and run down? I ask because I have a few primaries that are fairly used up and won't power the Minimus to full output but will get it to say 25% (just a guess), but the light runs and there is no blinking. It just stays dim, there is some pulsing/strobing when the knob is turned all the way up but it's subtle and stops if you turn the knob down.


----------



## BenChiew

TwitchALot said:


> Damn, it looks like I lost the LED lottery - mine runs for 1 hr 48 min before the first flash.  Starting voltage of the SF CR123A (Exp 09-2021) was 3.051 V, ending voltage after the first flash after some rest was 2.676 V.



Your starting voltage on a full primary should be at least 3.2v if not a touch more.


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## TwitchALot

P_A_S_1 said:


> The Minimus is suppose to blink three times when the voltage gets low, a low battery warning. Does this only happen when a fresh battery is installed and run down? I ask because I have a few primaries that are fairly used up and won't power the Minimus to full output but will get it to say 25% (just a guess), but the light runs and there is no blinking. It just stays dim, there is some pulsing/strobing when the knob is turned all the way up but it's subtle and stops if you turn the knob down.



I suspect it will always do that. Now here's the catch - when it can't sustain maximum output, it can still sustain lower outputs for MUCH longer. So of course, at say 25% power, it will run and not blink - because the battery can sustain *that* level of power for much much longer. I suspect though, as you continue to run the battery, eventually, when it cannot sustain 25% power, it will blink and flash. Too lazy to test, but that seems like how it would operate, and it would be dumb for it to do it at 100% but not 25%.


----------



## TwitchALot

Benchiew said:


> Your starting voltage on a full primary should be at least 3.2v if not a touch more.



I am well aware of this and should have mentioned that fact. In my experience, fresh out of the box Surefire's are at around 3.25 V starting. I was suspicious to have such a low measurement for the initial voltage, and was sloppy enough not to time my rest period at the end. That being said, I decided to run with the battery it initially came with anyway. The light was not on when received, but in theory could have turned on and off during transport or storage because of the rotating dial. Really what should be done is a triplicate and maybe with a ZTS tester to determine actual starting battery capacity. But mostly because I am lazy and don't want to waste batteries, I won't at the moment. 

Also note that 4Sevens batteries, while may be very good when you get them and perform well, do have self discharge issues. I measured a 4Sevens battery that had been sitting for a couple years but had not been used, and its voltage was also around 3.05 V. In my limited experience, SF batteries do the best for the long term deal, although even with SF, I have measured some voltages around 3.05 with purportedly fresh cells over time. Great to bring this up!


----------



## P_A_S_1

Does anyone know the operating voltage specs for the Minimus line of headlamps? I've searched on and off this forum and cannot find anything.


----------



## TwitchALot

P_A_S_1 said:


> Does anyone know the operating voltage specs for the Minimus line of headlamps? I've searched on and off this forum and cannot find anything.



As it's SF and they typically do not make flashlights compatible with Li-Ion, my guess is it's only compatible with your typical CR123A voltages, including LiFeP batteries. I don't have the guts to stick a typical LCO Li-Ion in mine - it may work, but how much damage to the driver/LED will it do? No thanks on that one!


----------



## P_A_S_1

Agreed, I use only primary batteries for that reason, I was curious to the actual voltage range. I sent a email to SF in regards but they've yet to respond.


----------



## ABTOMAT

I just got a LNIB Minimus off eBay for $50. Will arrive next week.

Not really a headlamp guy but I'm willing to try it out at that price.


----------



## dougie

ABTOMAT, please try and keep an open mind about the Minimus? Whilst it is far from perfect you may find after having used it for a while that those issues become far less bothersome than some folks would have you believe! Anyway, at the price you have paid for it, and assuming it is LNIB with no undisclosed faults, it is a genuine bargain. Nice catch!


----------



## P_A_S_1

Spoke with SF today and as expected they advised against using rechargeable li-ion batteries other then their own in the Minimus. Said their rechargeable batteries are 3.2 volts and they charge up to 3.6 which was within the voltage limits of the headlamp. Still don't know the actual voltage limit though.


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## ABTOMAT

Got the Minimus CR123 today and used it for a few hours working on my snowblower in the dark. Initial impression:

Pros:
-Great knurling
-Easy to use with gloves on
-Love the variable brightness
-Wide, soft beam good for closeup work
-I like that it's small and uses a CR123A

Cons:
-Needs a strap going across the top. It's heavy enough that I have to have the headband uncomfortably tight to keep it from creeping down my face. Forget jogging or anything rough.
-Lots of artifacts in the beam, although that doesn't bother me in actual use
-Ditto for a blue hotspot and greenish spill
-Not as bright as the rating would lead me to believe.


----------



## dougie

ABTOMAT

Thanks for the update on the Minimus. Reading your initial impressions it would seem that you have found most of the problems that both the Saint and Minimus suffer from. Personally, I don't have or experience the issue of the light moving around on my head without a top strap. I agree that the band does have to be adjusted until it prevents movement but I've not felt it to be uncomfortable though. Perhaps, something like a beanie hat might help with the comfort? I guess the impression of the brightness is somewhat subjective but it certainly puts out at least 100 lumens if not more on both my lights. However, the beam artifacts are a common problem but the tint less so. I guess the tint is definitely a bit of a lottery between lights or batches of lights.

I've always thought that Surefire could have improved the Saint rather than dropping it from the range as the design was good and could definitely been improved on. The Minimus and Vision are both great lights but now a wee bit underpowered and still suffering from potentially curable beam issues. At the end of the day though I'd still rather own and use both the Saint and the Minimus than most of alternatives from other manufacturers. However, I'd never say that nothing would replace them!!


----------



## ABTOMAT

I've noticed another commonly reported issue after using it a little more. There's a ring of light far outside the normal beam that shines on my nose and clothing when the light's adjusted for closer work.

Not sure yet if these issues are deal-killers for me, but I might explore other headlamp options.


----------



## Bucur

I posted the below as a separate thread first, but then, I realized that I should have posted it here. I don't know how to kill the thread that I had started. Could a moderator please be of help? Sorry for the inconvenience I may have caused. Here is my slightly edited SF Maximus question which is actually a Li-Ion battery related question:  

I am so happy that I got my Surefire Maximus today. Up to now, the only serious headlamp I have was a PrincetonTec Apex (130 lumen version). It can’t come even close to the Maximus in terms of power, adjustability and, apparently, sturdiness. The Apex is lighter, though, and IMO; a better design when it comes to aesthetics. 

Anyway, I have been keeping the Apex in my car. Since it operates via four CR 123A batteries, I did nothing, so far, in terms of maintenance. I simply keep a set of spare batteries in the trunk and I am confident that it is always ready for duty. 

I feel that the same does not apply to the Maximus. I also want to keep it in another car. Needless to say, I want it to be ready for duty at all times. I think Li-Ion batteries are supposed to be kept fully charged, anyway. Is this correct? However, my Li-Ion powered Samsung laptop has a _Battery Life Extender _mode that claims to keep the batteries 80% full so I am confused as to how full the batteries should be.  

Also, shall I exercise them from time to time and if so, how often? How much shall I discharge them during this exercise? I must admit primary batteries seem to be more suitable for this kind of usage (no-usage for extended periods of time) but the bottom line is that 500 lumens are way too attractive! :devil:

Could someone please advise me on how to maintain my new Surefire Maximus? Thank you.


----------



## dougie

I think that this question should really have gone in the battery forum as it relates more to the Li-Ion in the Maximus rather than the light itself. However, as the battery is not removable by the user I can understand why you placed it in this thread. As I'm not an expert I can only offer you my limited knowledge about Li-Ion batteries which is that they can be recharged at any time but should never be allowed to be left in a discharged state for long. I also myself wouldn't leave any device which has a non removable battery to be left on a charger once it is fully charged as it is debatable whether or not the the charger is truly capable of properly maintaining the battery. Providing you are sensible with how you use the light the Li-Ion battery is quite forgiving of less than ideal charging routines which presumably is why Surefire chose it in the first place?


----------



## TwitchALot

Bucur said:


> I feel that the same does not apply to the Maximus. I also want to keep it in another car. Needless to say, I want it to be ready for duty at all times. I think Li-Ion batteries are supposed to be kept fully charged, anyway. Is this correct? However, my Li-Ion powered Samsung laptop has a _Battery Life Extender _mode that claims to keep the batteries 80% full so I am confused as to how full the batteries should be.
> 
> Also, shall I exercise them from time to time and if so, how often? How much shall I discharge them during this exercise? I must admit primary batteries seem to be more suitable for this kind of usage (no-usage for extended periods of time) but the bottom line is that 500 lumens are way too attractive! :devil:
> 
> Could someone please advise me on how to maintain my new Surefire Maximus? Thank you.



Lithium Ion's (Cobalt Oxide) shouldn't be stored at full power for long term use or in cars, where temperatures can get exceedingly high. They should be stored around 3.8 V in the freezer if you don't plan on using them for a long period of time (preferably in a sealed container with dessicant to keep them dry). For the Maximus, if you don't plan on using it, I'd just leave it at RT charged to around 40-50% capacity (~3.8 V, but I don't think you can easily check on the Maximus).


----------



## crzyhorse

ABTOMAT said:


> I've noticed another commonly reported issue after using it a little more. There's a ring of light far outside the normal beam that shines on my nose and clothing when the light's adjusted for closer work.
> 
> Not sure yet if these issues are deal-killers for me, but I might explore other headlamp options.



I got the minimus vision for Christmas. This is the issue I'm noticing myself. It appears I have the newer version, as it has the adjustment screws and I don't notice any of the other issues that people reported. This is kind of a big deal to me though. I'll call Surefire after the new year and see what they have to say. I really hope they have a fix for this.


----------



## Bucur

TwitchALot said:


> Lithium Ion's (Cobalt Oxide) shouldn't be stored at full power for long term use or in cars, where temperatures can get exceedingly high. They should be stored around 3.8 V in the freezer if you don't plan on using them for a long period of time (preferably in a sealed container with dessicant to keep them dry). For the Maximus, if you don't plan on using it, I'd just leave it at RT charged to around 40-50% capacity (~3.8 V, but I don't think you can easily check on the Maximus).



Thank you so much for your reply and I am so sorry for the long delay in acknowledging your reply. Somehow, I don't get notified on the replies via e-mail, despite being subscribed! On the other hand, I may be unaware that I have been notified because my laptop crashed in the meantime and this is my new laptop. I hope I didn't miss other e-mails as well, during the transition from one laptop to the other. 

Even if I could check the voltage, keeping the Maximus at 40 - 50% capacity and/or in the fridge (anywhere but the car) would deny the purpose. I am actually keeping it full, in the car, for being able to use it at max capacity if/when I need. It is in a dark compartment with lid so not the hottest spot in the car but yes, the car will get hot in summer from time to time, when parked under the sun, albeit rarely, and with an effective windshield sun-shade (very reflective, highly insulated and cut to measure). I can't improve the storage conditions as this is a headlamp dedicated to the car but shall I exercise the Maximus (discharge the battery and recharge) from time to time? How often? Discharging to what extent?

What I have in mind is turning it on at about half power, monthly, until the battery indicator shows half charge and then, fully recharge. Is this a good plan? Given that the Maximus will be kept fully charged, in the car, would another plan be better? 

Thank you and I am sorry, once again, for not being aware of your reply earlier.


----------



## TwitchALot

Bucur said:


> Thank you so much for your reply and I am so sorry for the long delay in acknowledging your reply. Somehow, I don't get notified on the replies via e-mail, despite being subscribed! On the other hand, I may be unaware that I have been notified because my laptop crashed in the meantime and this is my new laptop. I hope I didn't miss other e-mails as well, during the transition from one laptop to the other.
> 
> Even if I could check the voltage, keeping the Maximus at 40 - 50% capacity and/or in the fridge (anywhere but the car) would deny the purpose. I am actually keeping it full, in the car, for being able to use it at max capacity if/when I need. It is in a dark compartment with lid so not the hottest spot in the car but yes, the car will get hot in summer from time to time, when parked under the sun, albeit rarely, and with an effective windshield sun-shade (very reflective, highly insulated and cut to measure). I can't improve the storage conditions as this is a headlamp dedicated to the car but shall I exercise the Maximus (discharge the battery and recharge) from time to time? How often? Discharging to what extent?
> 
> What I have in mind is turning it on at about half power, monthly, until the battery indicator shows half charge and then, fully recharge. Is this a good plan? Given that the Maximus will be kept fully charged, in the car, would another plan be better?
> 
> Thank you and I am sorry, once again, for not being aware of your reply earlier.



Likewise. -_- I'm going to be honest here, if you're going to keep it in the car where it's going to get really hot (yes, shades will help, but glovebox or not, cars get extremely hot relative to ambient temperatures if left in the sun), it's best to keep it discharged. As far as I know, lithium ions (again, CO) do not have a memory effect. They are hurt by three things in general: Time, temperature, and discharge/recharge cycles. We really only have control over two, and of those two, not doing one defeats the purpose of having the battery. Thus, that leaves temperature as the only real controllable variable (on the user end) affecting Li-ion battery life. So to answer your question, exercising your Maximus won't help - if anything, it'll hurt it, but remember, lights are meant to be used.

I "work EDC" a Surefire Minimus Vision in my briefcase. I could leave it in the car, but it's just not good for the batteries, and may not even be good for the light (high temperature storage? Beats me, but it sure doesn't sound good). I would say either keep it out of those environments when it's not necessary, or accept the fact that your battery will go to crap a lot faster (which SF will presumably fix without a hassle). I would also say that if you really aren't going to use the Maximus that much and just plan on leaving it in the car, do it with another light. The Maximus is not cheap, and to have it sit around in an environment that's extremely harsh on its "fixed" battery just doesn't sound like a good use of resources to me. A PrincetonTec EOS will lithium AAA's will do just fine in a "sit in the car just in case" role.


----------



## Bucur

TwitchALot said:


> Likewise. -_- I'm going to be honest here, if you're going to keep it in the car where it's going to get really hot (yes, shades will help, but glovebox or not, cars get extremely hot relative to ambient temperatures if left in the sun), it's best to keep it discharged. As far as I know, lithium ions (again, CO) do not have a memory effect. They are hurt by three things in general: Time, temperature, and discharge/recharge cycles. We really only have control over two, and of those two, not doing one defeats the purpose of having the battery. Thus, that leaves temperature as the only real controllable variable (on the user end) affecting Li-ion battery life. So to answer your question, exercising your Maximus won't help - if anything, it'll hurt it, but remember, lights are meant to be used.
> 
> I "work EDC" a Surefire Minimus Vision in my briefcase. I could leave it in the car, but it's just not good for the batteries, and may not even be good for the light (high temperature storage? Beats me, but it sure doesn't sound good). I would say either keep it out of those environments when it's not necessary, or accept the fact that your battery will go to crap a lot faster (which SF will presumably fix without a hassle). I would also say that if you really aren't going to use the Maximus that much and just plan on leaving it in the car, do it with another light. The Maximus is not cheap, and to have it sit around in an environment that's extremely harsh on its "fixed" battery just doesn't sound like a good use of resources to me. A PrincetonTec EOS will lithium AAA's will do just fine in a "sit in the car just in case" role.



Thank you so much for your very informative and realistic reply. I get your point. 

I bought the Maximus for what it is (wow factor), rather than for what I need. Now that I see the picture regarding keeping it in the car, it seems I must shift from enjoying having a 500 lumen, infinitely adjustable headlamp in the car; to enjoying having a -useless- 500 lumen, infinitely adjustable headlamp at home. I totally agree that this is not the best use of resources. My only consolation is that I may not be the only one who bought an expensive flashlight/headlamp for the sake of having it, rather than for making proper use of it. 

As for the PrincetonTec EOS, it does seem to be the proper headlamp for the job, indeed. The problem is; 80 lumens can't cut it!  Maybe something like a Spark SX5 with 3 X AA batteries would be the way to go. 

Please don't misunderstand me. My sarcasm is not to you but to myself. I do appreciate your kind reply a lot. Simply that, the headlamp in my car must also be fun, when it comes to the -non sense- lumen games!


----------



## TwitchALot

Bucur said:


> Thank you so much for your very informative and realistic reply. I get your point.
> 
> I bought the Maximus for what it is (wow factor), rather than for what I need. Now that I see the picture regarding keeping it in the car, it seems I must shift from enjoying having a 500 lumen, infinitely adjustable headlamp in the car; to enjoying having a -useless- 500 lumen, infinitely adjustable headlamp at home. I totally agree that this is not the best use of resources. My only consolation is that I may not be the only one who bought an expensive flashlight/headlamp for the sake of having it, rather than for making proper use of it.
> 
> As for the PrincetonTec EOS, it does seem to be the proper headlamp for the job, indeed. The problem is; 80 lumens can't cut it!  Maybe something like a Spark SX5 with 3 X AA batteries would be the way to go.
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me. My sarcasm is not to you but to myself. I do appreciate your kind reply a lot. Simply that, the headlamp in my car must also be fun, when it comes to the -non sense- lumen games!



Well, there isn't anything wrong with buying something for the sake of it or pride in ownership, but the Maximus is definitely not a useless light. It could be useful in SAR operations or caving, for example. In terms of having a "spare light in the car," my opinion in is that the only flashlights in the car (for your use in real situations) should be on your person. I EDC 3 real flashlights (and have a phone light with an LED on it specifically to provide light which is pretty good), which means 4 lights on me on a daily basis. At work (5 days a week), I have a SF Minimus Vision for a total of 5. Yes, I still have some random flashlights here and there in the car because I'm a flashaholic, but if my 4 EDC's don't cut it, I can tell you right now the ones in the car aren't going to either. 

The way I see it, if you need more than 80 lumens on your headlamp, you're either doing SAR or caving. If you aren't and have a free hand, handhelds these days can easily put out near that level (or above it in some cases) of light and can be EDC'ed relatively easily. In my view, 3 in my pockets sure beats 1 in the car. In doing so, I have A) multiple light sources on my person, B) multiple types of light (long range vs floody and backups), and C) more excuses to buy more lights since you can have 3-4 on your person. And let's face it, it's way more awesome to need the Maximus and just bust it out right there than have to say to your group, "oh wait, I have this cool headlamp in the car. Wait here while I go run and get it." 

I don't mean to bash or be strongly vocal to the point of pushy, but when you say you "Must shift from enjoying having a 500 lumen, infinitely adjustable headlamp in your car," couldn't you shift to "enjoying a 500 lumen, infinitely adjustable headlamp because I have it on my person" instead? I find I use my tools a lot more when I have them on me and it's convenient...


----------



## Bucur

TwitchALot said:


> Well, there isn't anything wrong with buying something for the sake of it or pride in ownership, but the Maximus is definitely not a useless light. It could be useful in SAR operations or caving, for example. In terms of having a "spare light in the car," my opinion in is that the only flashlights in the car (for your use in real situations) should be on your person. I EDC 3 real flashlights (and have a phone light with an LED on it specifically to provide light which is pretty good), which means 4 lights on me on a daily basis. At work (5 days a week), I have a SF Minimus Vision for a total of 5. Yes, I still have some random flashlights here and there in the car because I'm a flashaholic, but if my 4 EDC's don't cut it, I can tell you right now the ones in the car aren't going to either.
> 
> The way I see it, if you need more than 80 lumens on your headlamp, you're either doing SAR or caving. If you aren't and have a free hand, handhelds these days can easily put out near that level (or above it in some cases) of light and can be EDC'ed relatively easily. In my view, 3 in my pockets sure beats 1 in the car. In doing so, I have A) multiple light sources on my person, B) multiple types of light (long range vs floody and backups), and C) more excuses to buy more lights since you can have 3-4 on your person. And let's face it, it's way more awesome to need the Maximus and just bust it out right there than have to say to your group, "oh wait, I have this cool headlamp in the car. Wait here while I go run and get it."
> 
> I don't mean to bash or be strongly vocal to the point of pushy, but when you say you "Must shift from enjoying having a 500 lumen, infinitely adjustable headlamp in your car," couldn't you shift to "enjoying a 500 lumen, infinitely adjustable headlamp because I have it on my person" instead? I find I use my tools a lot more when I have them on me and it's convenient...



WOW! EDC'ing any headlamp, let alone a big one like the Maximus, is way beyond me. My hat off to the flashaholic (if not headlampaholic) in you. I EDC my Klarus Mi X6 SS and I am considering EDC'ing a 1 X CR123 flashlight like the Niteye 10 TIC but the Maximus is way too inconvenient for me to EDC. 

As I admitted earlier, I don't "need" more than 80 lumens on my headlamp. I just "want" this; w/o doing SAR or caving. I now realize that keeping this 500 lumen headlamp in my car would be harmful for its fixed Li-Ion battery and I am desperately trying to find another use for it. I wish having it on my person, at all times, was an alternative for me, though.


----------



## dwong

About to order the Vision for hiking, no running, usually on full moon, for well marked trails, other better choices?


----------



## BenChiew

dwong said:


> About to order the Vision for hiking, no running, usually on full moon, for well marked trails, other better choices?


]

I dont see why you can't use the Minimus for this. Beautiful beam with the Fresnel Lens. Nice wide coverage.


----------



## pjandyho

dwong said:


> About to order the Vision for hiking, no running, usually on full moon, for well marked trails, other better choices?





Benchiew said:


> ]
> 
> I dont see why you can't use the Minimus for this. Beautiful beam with the Fresnel Lens. Nice wide coverage.


Precisely. I don't see why a Minimus Vision could not handle what you need it to handle. I love the Vision so much that when I lost mine in Bali I immediately bought a replacement from the store when I am back home. Luckily they have the very last piece left.


----------



## dwong

thanks guys, now using a novatac 120p(super old sn, made in usa) clip onto my hat for HL; and a U2 for throw as needed.
only wish for a AA single tube design from SF, but doesn't see will happens any time soon. 



pjandyho said:


> Precisely. I don't see why a Minimus Vision could not handle what you need it to handle. I love the Vision so much that when I lost mine in Bali I immediately bought a replacement from the store when I am back home. Luckily they have the very last piece left.


----------



## Snownutz

I've owned the Maximus for 5 months I guess and use it everyday working in the basement or garage ! It is heavier than I'd like but hey I got used to a third wife! Seriously though the battery charges faster than I can take a nap and have the quickest bite to eat and be ready for another day before ill charge again ! That weight disappears big time when you start thinking about all those careful battery swaps with possibly wet or grimy oil slicked hands ! No half charged batteries lost in with the good ones because you pulled out a slightly used one to avoid a battery change while in the thick of a job ! Knowing the light will be there for sure allows me the courage to crawl into a crawl space without having to crawl out having to hand hold a light or do a battery change in the dark strange places! Because this light steps down perfectly ! The only thing I do know that is truly an issue is if you forget to back off on the full lumens for long it will get you to sweating sooner than you would have due to your work ! But dropping it down to a very usable excellent light cures that and so I blame that on my just loving all that sick beautiful illumination ! And it's tons lighter than strapping that Millenium 500 lumen beast to my head ! You have not lived until you use a light for 5 months and not done a battery change or had to buy them !


----------



## Mooreshire

Snownutz said:


> You have not lived until you use a light for 5 months and not done a battery change



I second that regarding the joy of not changing batteries for months on end. 
Good to hear that you are having a positive headlamp experience with your Maximus. Thanks for sharing. Oh, and let me be the first to welcome you to our forums! :welcome:


----------



## Shooter21

I'm thinking about getting a Minimus AA for spelunking and I'm wondering if the headlamps are just as reliable as their handheld lights? Thanks


----------



## cland72

In looking at the stock photo, it looks like the battery compartment on the Minimus AA made out of polymer/plastic. Can anyone confirm? Part of what I like about my Minimus Vision (CR123 version) is that it is entirely made out of aluminum, just like their flashlights.


----------



## Shooter21

My Minimus AA is really stiff and makes a loud squeak when i turn the knob, anyone else have this problem? thanks


----------



## cland72

Shooter21 said:


> My Minimus AA is really stiff and makes a loud squeak when i turn the knob, anyone else have this problem? thanks



Wondering if it might be a dry o-ring - try putting a little lube on it and see if it persists.


----------



## Shooter21

cland72 said:


> Wondering if it might be a dry o-ring - try putting a little lube on it and see if it persists.


the problem is you can't remove the knob like you can on the cr123 minimus as far as I know.


----------



## NikoAus

I was asking myself this question for a longer time, because only the Vision of the headlamps wasnt saying anything about waterproofness, so:



Hello Max,

I apologize and stand corrected. Both the Minimus and Minimus Vision are submersible to three feet for thirty minutes. There is no difference between the two headlamps regarding waterproofness. 

Thank you,

Steven Schwier
Technical Support
SUREFIRE, LLC


----------



## mntnrnnr

cland72 said:


> My minimus vision didn't have enough friction to keep the unit from turning when turning the light off or on. I called surefire and the two adjustment Allen screws behind the velcro pad are 0.035 inch in case anyone needs to adjust tension.
> 
> Posted using Tapatalk on my HTC Evo



This is one of the reasons I love the internet! I was just now looking for info on the size of the allen screw on the minimus vision! So thanks for posting this!!!


----------



## P_A_S_1

Finding those small allen keys can be tough but you need one if you have a Minimus. Just the slightest tightening improves the friction a lot and you can even lock it into a position if you like.


----------



## cland72

mntnrnnr said:


> This is one of the reasons I love the internet! I was just now looking for info on the size of the allen screw on the minimus vision! So thanks for posting this!!!



Glad to help! I had to order my allen key online since it was so small.


----------



## P_A_S_1

mntnrnnr said:


> This is one of the reasons I love the internet! I was just now looking for info on the size of the allen screw on the minimus vision! So thanks for posting this!!!




You can get an allen key from SF, contact their customer service.


----------



## RNDDUDE

A little-known feature (on the newer generation, set-screw adjustable Minimus and it's variants, but not the AA version) is that there is a small molded-in holder in the plastic under the headpad that was designed to store the appropriate allen key so that it is always available for field adjustments.


----------



## mntnrnnr

RNDDUDE said:


> A little-known feature (on the newer generation, set-screw adjustable Minimus and it's variants, but not the AA version) is that there is a small molded-in holder in the plastic under the headpad that was designed to store the appropriate allen key so that it is always available for field adjustments.



The internets keeping getting better! Great tip! Unfortunately my Minimus Vision doesn't appear to have this allen key holder. Either that or I'm blind. Can you post a pic?

Also for what it's worth, I picked up a .035" allen key from Amazon (actually a micro hex adjustment set) and it fit perfectly. After slightly tightening the set screw the rotation of the headlamp is perfect!


----------



## Echo63

I have had my Minimus Vision for ages, EDC it, and just yesterday i learnt it had an SOS Strobe !
turn the light on, then turn it off, then on again three times and it will start blinking, then turn the brightness up to where you need it.

a very well hidden, but easy to access mode, that may come in handy in an emergency.

and i have to tighten my tension screws every 3 months or so - i find a bit of nail polish on the threads helps it stay adjusted

Also - the neoprene pad had its fuzzy backing come loose at the edges.
a bit of spray adhesive, and a row of stitching around the edge and its better than new.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

Sorry if this has already been addressed... does the Maximus come with a strap that goes across the top? It looks like there is a place to mount one to in the pictures.

I'm looking at getting one for night running - I sweat alot and think I must have extra slick sweat as few lights will stay in place without a top strap!

Also how big is the strap? Big enough to go use it over a bicycle helmet if needed? 

Thanks


----------



## KeyGrip

Can anyone who has purchased a Vision recently comment on the beam? I'm wondering if they have addressed any of the artifacts. Thanks!


----------



## cland72

Echo63 said:


> I have had my Minimus Vision for ages, EDC it, and just yesterday i learnt it had an SOS Strobe !
> turn the light on, then turn it off, then on again three times and it will start blinking, then turn the brightness up to where you need it.



This is awesome, thanks for sharing!


----------



## RNDDUDE

rickypanecatyl said:


> Sorry if this has already been addressed... does the Maximus come with a strap that goes across the top? It looks like there is a place to mount one to in the pictures.
> 
> I'm looking at getting one for night running - I sweat alot and think I must have extra slick sweat as few lights will stay in place without a top strap!
> 
> Also how big is the strap? Big enough to go use it over a bicycle helmet if needed?
> 
> Thanks



I use the top strap from the recently discontinued Saint headlamp on mine. If you contact SF and ask pretty-please, they may send you one, as there are surely some unused Saint straps lying around the factory. In my opinion, as the Maximus headlamp bracket already has the over-the-top slot molded in, SF should add one to the packaging one every one. It totally transforms the stability of the somewhat hefty Maximus.


----------



## dwong

Want to pick up a set of charger/rechargeable battery for my Vision, any recommendation? 
Alway using primary, also a set of rechargeable for my U2 be great too...


----------



## cland72

Surefire sells a rechargeable battery kit that would work perfectly for you.


----------



## nullface

I'm about to buy a Minimus, but I'm not sure if I should get a normal Minimus or a Vision. Is there an easy answer?


----------



## cland72

I'd say Minimus if you don't care about tint or if brightness is more important. Get the Vision if tint is more important to you.


----------



## nullface

cland72 said:


> I'd say Minimus if you don't care about tint or if brightness is more important. Get the Vision if tint is more important to you.



I have a few additional question, I'm no flashaholic so I have to make a few things clear to myself before I make my choice. The Vision is by no means a HCRI version of the normal Minimus right? It just has a warmer tint.

And I have a HDS Systems EDC (current gen) and a SureFire 6P with a Malkoff M61L HCRI drop-in, to which one does the Minimus Vision compere in warmth?


----------



## pjandyho

nullface said:


> I have a few additional question, I'm no flashaholic so I have to make a few things clear to myself before I make my choice. The Vision is by no means a HCRI version of the normal Minimus right? It just has a warmer tint.
> 
> And I have a HDS Systems EDC (current gen) and a SureFire 6P with a Malkoff M61L HCRI drop-in, to which one does the Minimus Vision compere in warmth?


The Minimus Vision has a warm tint but it is cooler in tint compared to both Malkoff and HDS. Not exactly sure what color temperature it is but I would likely say it borders around the ballpark of 3500K to 3800K.


----------



## nullface

pjandyho said:


> The Minimus Vision has a warm tint but it is cooler in tint compared to both Malkoff and HDS. Not exactly sure what color temperature it is but I would likely say it borders around the ballpark of 3500K to 3800K.



Wow is the Vision even cooler than the HDS (none HCRI)?


----------



## pjandyho

nullface said:


> Wow is the Vision even cooler than the HDS (none HCRI)?


I was referring to the HCRI version of the current generation of HDS lights, and since you did not mention, I assumed you are referring to the HCRI version. The older HCRI HDS lights using the SSC P4 has a slightly cooler tint which is quite similar to the Minimus Vision.


----------



## MarkIAlbert

I find headlamps really useful around the house:
1) Midnight snacking - great for avoiding waking up the house and still gives you two free hands - one for the plate, one for the glass.
2) Power outages. In the last two years, we've been without power for a total of 4 weeks. Headlamps that were both efficient (for long life) and bright were a huge help.
3) Home repairs - much easier to have a headlamp aimed where you need it than to have a wife or child aim a light (as they complain "are you done yet").




Bucur said:


> WOW! EDC'ing any headlamp, let alone a big one like the Maximus, is way beyond me. My hat off to the flashaholic (if not headlampaholic) in you. I EDC my Klarus Mi X6 SS and I am considering EDC'ing a 1 X CR123 flashlight like the Niteye 10 TIC but the Maximus is way too inconvenient for me to EDC.
> 
> As I admitted earlier, I don't "need" more than 80 lumens on my headlamp. I just "want" this; w/o doing SAR or caving. I now realize that keeping this 500 lumen headlamp in my car would be harmful for its fixed Li-Ion battery and I am desperately trying to find another use for it. I wish having it on my person, at all times, was an alternative for me, though.


----------



## P_A_S_1

nullface said:


> I'm about to buy a Minimus, but I'm not sure if I should get a normal Minimus or a Vision. Is there an easy answer?



They're close enough in brightness that I would choose based on the tint alone. Finding a store that has both to compare side by side would be your best option.


----------



## dwong

Was in the same boat and end up with the Vision, I never dial pass 50%. 
For use in house or night hike, 30-40 lumens is more then enough. 



nullface said:


> I'm about to buy a Minimus, but I'm not sure if I should get a normal Minimus or a Vision. Is there an easy answer?


----------



## think2x

ABTOMAT said:


> Cons:
> -Needs a strap going across the top. It's heavy enough that I have to have the headband uncomfortably tight to keep it from creeping down my face. Forget jogging or anything rough.
> *-Lots of artifacts in the beam, although that doesn't bother me in actual use
> -Ditto for a blue hotspot and greenish spill*
> -Not as bright as the rating would lead me to believe.



Just as an FYI, I have had great results using this on flashlight lenses and today I mustered the nerve to apply it to my Minimus Vision. Mask of the surrounding area and give the lens a light coat or two of this.......http://www.houzz.com/photos/2620253/Valspar-Glass-Frosting-Spray-Paint--11-Ounces--housekeeping-

While it will make it more floody, it also makes the beam pattern great IMO totally eliminating the two issues in bold.


----------



## Gxtac

Never been impressed with sure fire head lamps. Not enough output for the price. Love their weapon lights and LEDs, own 7 total. 2 x300s, 2 ed2 defenders, lx2 lumamax, g2, px2 fury. Would be curious to see the sure fire Maximus in a comparison to the fenix hp15


----------



## P_A_S_1

Odd thing about my Minimus, never noticed the light 'halo' effect many complain about until I actually looked for it. To me it didn't seem that bad however recently I've noticed it's really pronounced. Is it possible to get worse with time?


----------



## mthayr

RNDDUDE said:


> The latest revision of the Minimus has addressed the body tension issue by replacing the two static tension pins with larger pins that have a small set screw in each pin to allow user adjustment of the tension to compensate for wear/manufacturing tolerances



Can anyone tell me what size hex these tiny little set screws are, I have tried both a 1/20th (SAE) and 1.5mm (metric) wrench to no avail... I need to tighten this as the housing turns badly when turning my light on or off.


----------



## cland72

cland72 said:


> My minimus vision didn't have enough friction to keep the unit from turning when turning the light off or on. I called surefire and the two adjustment Allen screws behind the velcro pad are 0.035 inch in case anyone needs to adjust tension.
> 
> Posted using Tapatalk on my HTC Evo


----------



## mthayr

NICE!! And in case you have trouble finding said teenie weenie hex drivers: http://amzn.com/B003N9B6BC


----------



## dwong

Thanks, just order 2 pairs to go along with Xtra SP1 charger. 



cland72 said:


> Surefire sells a rechargeable battery kit that would work perfectly for you.


----------



## mntnrnnr

P_A_S_1 said:


> Odd thing about my Minimus, never noticed the light 'halo' effect many complain about until I actually looked for it. To me it didn't seem that bad however recently I've noticed it's really pronounced. Is it possible to get worse with time?



I don't have any data to prove it, but I think it *does* get worse with time... When I got mine out last fall for "headlamp season," it certainly seemed the "halo" rings were far worse... And they land right across my nose/face when I have the headlamp positioned at a comfortable angle for walking... 

It's such a shame really - in terms of reliability, construction, and UI, this is my favorite headlamp... enough so that without the rings I would be completely satisfied with it and would probably have no need for another headlamp... However, the artifacts dancing in my eyes and across my peripheral vision ruin it. So sadly, I'm still looking for the perfect headlamp...


----------



## P_A_S_1

mntnrnnr said:


> I don't have any data to prove it, but I think it *does* get worse with time... When I got mine out last fall for "headlamp season," it certainly seemed the "halo" rings were far worse... And they land right across my nose/face when I have the headlamp positioned at a comfortable angle for walking...
> 
> It's such a shame really - in terms of reliability, construction, and UI, this is my favorite headlamp... enough so that without the rings I would be completely satisfied with it and would probably have no need for another headlamp... However, the artifacts dancing in my eyes and across my peripheral vision ruin it. So sadly, I'm still looking for the perfect headlamp...



I kind of think so too. When I first got it I looked for these artifacts and barely noticed them, now they're obvious. Odd (and disappointing).


----------



## dougie

Each of us is different but the fact is if we look for imperfections in something we will usually find them. There is no denying that the artifacts you describe seem to be prevalent in the majority of Surefire's headlamps. However, just like you can't train yourself to ignore them an equal number of people can condition themselves to ignore what you find an irritation. The saddest part is that 'if' the artifacts weren't there the Surefire range of headlamps would be some of the best available on the market. As it stands they have been left to stagnate and the issues of beam artifacts ignored so that the headlamps have become something of a niche market for Surefire which is a real shame.


----------



## P_A_S_1

dougie said:


> Each of us is different but the fact is if we look for imperfections in something we will usually find them. There is no denying that the artifacts you describe seem to be prevalent in the majority of Surefire's headlamps. However, just like you can't train yourself to ignore them an equal number of people can condition themselves to ignore what you find an irritation. The saddest part is that 'if' the artifacts weren't there the Surefire range of headlamps would be some of the best available on the market. As it stands they have been left to stagnate and the issues of beam artifacts ignored so that the headlamps have become something of a niche market for Surefire which is a real shame.



I agree with the latter part very much so, just a few tweaks to the Minimus line would make a big difference. Correct the artifacts, allow the battery compartment to 'lock out', and Li-ion compatibility (4.2v rcr123) are pretty simple fixes and would make the light much better.


----------



## mntnrnnr

dougie said:


> Each of us is different but the fact is if we look for imperfections in something we will usually find them. There is no denying that the artifacts you describe seem to be prevalent in the majority of Surefire's headlamps. However, just like you can't train yourself to ignore them an equal number of people can condition themselves to ignore what you find an irritation. The saddest part is that 'if' the artifacts weren't there the Surefire range of headlamps would be some of the best available on the market. As it stands they have been left to stagnate and the issues of beam artifacts ignored so that the headlamps have become something of a niche market for Surefire which is a real shame.



Good points. I agree. It's disappointing that they obviously put a huge amount of effort and attention into the build quality, engineering, user interface and functionality and they got SO close to a STELLAR product, but still these issues exist (and continue to exist) on a high-end product put out by a company that prides itself on its premium, high-quality products.


----------



## P_A_S_1

I saw that Outdoor Gear Lab did a comparison and ratings on a bunch of headlamps including the Minimus. They rated the Minimus pretty low. Here is the link;

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Headlamp-Reviews


----------



## bigfoot

MarkIAlbert said:


> I find headlamps really useful around the house:
> 1) Midnight snacking - great for avoiding waking up the house and still gives you two free hands - one for the plate, one for the glass.



Sounds like the best use ever! Might have to borrow that idea.


----------



## dougie

P_A_S_1 said:


> I saw that Outdoor Gear Lab did a comparison and ratings on a bunch of headlamps including the Minimus. They rated the Minimus pretty low. Here is the link;
> 
> http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Headlamp-Reviews



Having read the article I note that the two main complaints were battery life and low output when compared to the opposition. Given that the Minimus has been out for quite some time (without revisions) and was pitched at some far more modern products in the comparison it's not surprising that it scored badly for the above two points. However, as a critic pointed out the durability of the Surefire product when compared to the competition wasn't mentioned or tested. If a headlamp can't take an acceptable amount of environmental and physical abuse then to my mind it's worthless. Surefire products are designed to work in environments and to survive abuse that other lights can't. Regrettably, output and performance aren't necessarily worth a dime if you end up with a dead weight on your head instead of a functioning light. As I stated in an earlier post Surefire headlamps are a neglected product line that could, AND should, be so much better than they are. 'If', only Surefire deemed the demand for their products to be worth investing more time and energy on they could blow most of the opposition out of the water. As it stands I believe that Surefire is unlikely to keep making something which is now probably selling in even more limited numbers than when they were first introduced!


----------



## cland72

This weekend I used my Minimus Vision while working in my attic. Love the flood of this light - excellent for seeing everything in your field of view at the same time. Kep me from hitting my head on a couple of rafters while up there since it lights up my peripheral.


----------



## nja4k

I carry the minus vision in my edc bag and use it all the time for work. ( TV/film productions)

Since I got used to using just as much light as necessary. It has lasted me quite a while.

A boost mode for high and longer run times would be welcoming and I would buy it.

But I found the vision 10 times better then the cool minimus versions.


----------



## Littlelantern

I m very satisfied with my minimum vision too and looking forward for the maximus vision.


----------



## pjandyho

Yes. The Minimus Vision still and is my favorite headlamp after all these years.


----------



## JBA

So I picked up a Minimus a couple of weeks ago and cannot figure out why my Tenergy rechargeable 123's won't fit. Any ideas on this? They work fine in my Surefire U2 and E1B.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

I love the user interface... but line the article I also an hoping for one just like it with more throw and battery life.
I'm happy to have a heavier one...

I'm thinking 18650 version with dedomed XPG2 in a slightly larger reflector and flip down diffuser like the petzl has would be perfect...


----------



## cland72

JBA said:


> So I picked up a Minimus a couple of weeks ago and cannot figure out why my Tenergy rechargeable 123's won't fit. Any ideas on this? They work fine in my Surefire U2 and E1B.



Are you sure you're inserting the battery with the terminals oriented correctly? Is it too long, or too big around?


----------



## JBA

cland72 said:


> Are you sure you're inserting the battery with the terminals oriented correctly? Is it too long, or too big around?



I'm very sure I'm inserting the batteries with the correct orientation as I have no problems inserting regular Surefire batteries (as well as non-rechargeable 123's).
Into it. Any other ideas? I'll take some pictures in the next day so.


----------



## JBA

Just thought I would update the problem I was having. Unfortunately I finally figured it out after I had sold my Minimus and was packing it up to be shipped. So I had a pair of Tenergy 30200 LiFePO4 RCR123A 3.0V that my cousin gave me laying around. I popped one of them in the Minimus and it fit and powered up just fine. I tried one of my old Tenergy 30201 RCR123A 3.0V (3.2V) and it still would not fit. I'm guessing the difference in capacity also made one slightly bigger than the other causing my problem. I'm really regretting not having a chance to play around with the Minimus more and may just pick up another one now that I know what the problem is. Any thoughts on this??


----------



## benddg

I joined this forum so that I might post this question. I have a maximus and really enjoy it. I use it to navigate my boat duck hunting in flooded timber in Ar. I think I have a problem with my battery. When running my boat it illuminates all of the inside of the boat and helps navigate through the trees. I only get about 20 to maybe 30 mins run time. I think it overheats in that time. Even in the coldest of weather, I'm talking single digits it will run about 15 to 20 minutes and shut off. After a cool down period it will run again but usually not long. I don't think mine will come close to the advertised one hour run time on high. The main problem mine has is it will not hold a charge over a couple days if left off the charger. I use my light nearly daily. To use it I must leave it on the charger at all times. If left off the charger it will be dead in short order. I think I will contact Surefire about this but just wanted to know if all of them are like this. If left off charger does it go dead? I bought this light when they first came on the market. Maybe they needed to work a few kinks out.


----------



## cland72

Sounds to me like you got a bad battery pack in that light. Try calling Surefire, explain the issue, and they will most likely make it right. 

Welcome to the forum!

:welcome:


----------



## Kestrel

The Minimus Vision has been percolating to the top of my 'buy' list for a while now, and the final straw was my backup headlamp (Petzl Zipka) finally going south on my most recent camping trip.

A good thread here, w/ good info. Thanks to all the contributors, very helpful for those of us still on the fence.

Wild guess here, but it sounds like the Minimus may have the exact same driver as the T1A. What makes this more interesting is that there is substantial evidence indicating a buck/boost driver in the SF T1A, drawing ~30% less mA from a 3.7V LiIon compared to a 2.5V CR123. Some folks who have solved fitment & electrical connectivity issues have been using LiIons in their T1A's IIRC.

... and I do know an IMR123 will fit into tighter spots compared to protected LiCo RCR123's ... :huh:


----------



## P_A_S_1

I mostly use my Minimus for hiking, throw it in the bag just incase I get stuck on the trail longer then I expected. While I don't dislike it I wish they would upgrade it a bit, it would make the light that much more appealing. A simple battery lock out and better beam profile would be greatly appreciated. With that said it's good for camping and backpacking. It's a little bulky/heavy compared to the more common headlamps and a spotter it's not....but it's still good.


----------



## nja4k

Battery lock out and a slight tweak for a bit longer runtime would be great.

I go through the headband in about a year.

After sewing the padding on it lasts longer.


----------



## pedey

I am considering buying the maximus but was wondering if anybody who has used one for a while could answer some questions for me. I work for one of the railroads and in a given 12 hour shift, I typically end end up walking trains for 4-6 hours (need to be able to see objects up to 50 feet away) and shove cars for about 2 hours (need to be able to see rails and switches at about 150 - 200 feet away). If I ran the maximus during the shoves in the 200 - 300 lumen range. Would I have enough battery to make it through the shift?


----------



## Kestrel

Well, last night I rec'd my new Minimus Vision. What an outstanding headlamp. 

I had some reservations due to the mixed reviews but I finally decided that it was the closest to what I was looking for.
After some 'around the house' testing I would say that this light is nearly perfect for what I want in a headlamp.

Some of the aspects reported on that I was concerned with but all the details worked out:

Rotary dial 'clicks' to off, tactile _and_ auditory
No distracting 'bright nose'
The output dial rotates easier than the up-down angle adjustment - so changing the output keeps the beam directed to where I want it. 

Overall, I'm extremely happy. I was hoping for ~5000K, my example looks closer to 4000K but that's still OK. I admit that I've gotten pretty picky about tints since getting into 5000's.


----------



## P_A_S_1

When I got mine (Minimus) I didn't notice the prism effect made by the lens at all. In time though I did and always wondered if it was there and I just missed it or if it developed with use. After using your light for a while and knocking it around see how it is for you. Glad your happy with it, the few tweaks aside that everyone recommends it's a good light.


----------



## DeanA

Been reading this post because I'm a bit of a SF fan, and in the market for a headlamp..........not really feeling all that warm and fuzzy about the SF.....LOL.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Please elaborate,

Bill


----------



## DeanA

I have a dozen or so Surefires, old and new......all great lights for one reason or another...love them. I just felt like the general theme of the thread was not as enthusiastic as I was expecting,..lol. Reading some of the other headlamp threads, the owners were elated with their headlamps. The general theme seemed to be the SF's were just ok. 
Surefire makes great stuff......I'm still leaning that direction....just not warm and fuzzy....lol


----------



## cland72

I think the negative comments here are exaggerated/unfounded. I'm no headlamp guru, but this is the most comfortable, sturdy headlamp I've ever owned. It may not be the brightest, but it exceeds the requirements for 100% of the tasks most people use a headlamp for. Buy with confidence (and buy an Allen wrench to adjust the anti rotational screws, if needed, on occasion).


----------



## pjandyho

Agree with cland72. Mine is the Minimus Vision with a neutral white tint and I am so happy with it I just have to get another one immediately after I left the first one in the room on a trip to Bali, Indonesia. I do have other headlamps too, mainly from Zebralight, but the Minimus Vision is in a class of its own.


----------



## P_A_S_1

DeanA said:


> I have a dozen or so Surefires, old and new......all great lights for one reason or another...love them. I just felt like the general theme of the thread was not as enthusiastic as I was expecting,..lol. Reading some of the other headlamp threads, the owners were elated with their headlamps. The general theme seemed to be the SF's were just ok.
> Surefire makes great stuff......I'm still leaning that direction....just not warm and fuzzy....lol



I think your right in your assessment based on various Minimus threads here on CPF, the praise isn't always there but the criticism is. Check out GearReviews, they recently did headlamp reviews of various light including the SF, the Minimus was a low scorer in their opinion. Here on CPF I think the members are so critical of the light because they expected more from a SF and for the higher cost compared to other headlamps. It is a good light though, I like mine, however a few tweaks would make the light better and I think all but the stanchest of SF fans would agree with that. If your considering the Minimus know it's not a thrower, it's flood with a little throw. It's strong point should be it's durability and construction although I haven't put mine through any hard use that any other plastic headlamp couldn't take, so personally I can't attest to that. Would love to see a thread/post on hard used Minimus lights.


----------



## DeanA

LOL....Feeling a little warm and fuzzy now......going to order one this weekend. Thanks fr the input, greatly appreciated.


----------



## ForrestChump

DeanA said:


> LOL....Feeling a little warm and fuzzy now......going to order one this weekend. Thanks for the input, greatly appreciated.



Hey Dean :welcome:

Please feel warm and fuzzy for me as well.
When your ready I'll PM you my shipping address. :santa:


----------



## kamote-fries

Has anyone tried the maximus vision?


----------



## erehwyrevekool

+1
Can't wait to read the first review!


----------



## sledhead

erehwyrevekool said:


> +1
> Can't wait to read the first review!



+2 Hoping the beam quality is there.


----------



## marinemaster

Hi, what type battery does the Surefire Maximus Vision takes ? Maybe 18650 ?
I know is rechargeable but it not not say what type.


----------



## nja4k

I thought it built in and not removable like the maximus ?


----------



## marinemaster

I hope not people go in caves and dark places with this light the battery need to be able to swap....


----------



## Aperture

marinemaster said:


> I hope not people go in caves and dark places with this light the battery need to be able to swap....


Both Maximus models have built in li-ion batteries which can not be replaced in the field, or cave for that matter.

It can be charged in the field however with a batterypack which has a 12V output.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Took the Minimus out of the glove box last night to do a runtime test. With the battery having a resting voltage of 3.0v I got slightly less then an hour of 'high' output on maximum and from there it gradually declined over the course of another 2 hours. From there it maintained a low for quite a while, albeit very low. One thing I've noticed more and more is the light prism that the optics creates, I called SF to see if there was a way of adjusting the optics to minimize this but was told the light is not user serviceable. While doing the test I had the light in a fixed position and observed the prism 'spread' slightly, makes me wonder why this is and if the LED or optic was adjustable if this could be corrected of minimized. The other thing I noticed was that as the battery depletes the light kind of flickers a bit, hardly noticeable but it's there, yet the low battery indicator didn't activate (no blinking).


----------



## Charles L.

PAS1, where can I learn more about this prism effect? Or can you enlighten me? I'd been planning to purchase a Minimus in the coming year, and wasn't familiar with this particular quirk. Edit: never mind, found it in several discussions.


----------



## P_A_S_1

One other thing about the Minimus, it really depletes a battery. Batteries that no longer fire the LED on my HDS will still fire the Minimus on low and run for a while but not the other way around.


----------



## pjandyho

Charles L. said:


> PAS1, where can I learn more about this prism effect? Or can you enlighten me? I'd been planning to purchase a Minimus in the coming year, and wasn't familiar with this particular quirk. Edit: never mind, found it in several discussions.


I believe PAS1 is talking about the artifact in the beam. All Minimus and Minimus Vision would have some artifact in the beam caused by the fresnel lens, or at least it looks like a fresnel lens inside.


----------



## Aperture

Any tips where I can order the Surefire HS1 and HS2 Filter Set and have it shipped to Amsterdam?

B&H sells it for $18 but won't ship Surefire parts to the EU as does Amazon, one guy sells it on eBay for almost $50 including shipping and enforced sales tax which I don't have to pay. Other places I can find are small websites I'm not familiair with or don't have them in stock.

So, who knows a trusted shop which ships the filter set to the EU?


----------



## P_A_S_1

pjandyho said:


> I believe PAS1 is talking about the artifact in the beam. All Minimus and Minimus Vision would have some artifact in the beam caused by the fresnel lens, or at least it looks like a fresnel lens inside.



No, not the artifacts or unevenness produced by the light's lens. The 'prism' effect is a band of light in four (on my light) close but distinct lines that project out and around the lens in a circle or semi circle at almost a 90 degree angle. The band of light has slight color to the ring like a rainbow, that's why some call it a 'prism' effect. I was familiar with it prior to getting my light after reading a thread here on CPF in regards, I'll try to link the thread below as it has pictures of this prism or halo like effect. Now, when I got my light and the effect wasn't there I assumed they fixed it through production however in time I noticed it more and more so either I initially missed it or it developed, hence my call to SF to see it there was anything I could do to correct it. Looking at the light it seems the tip of the fresnel lens is where the effect is produced. 


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?317170-Disappointed-in-Surefire

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?243696-Surefire-Saint-headlamp-(Part-2)/page2

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?268010-Surefire-Saint-Minimus


----------



## pjandyho

P_A_S_1 said:


> No, not the artifacts or unevenness produced by the light's lens. The 'prism' effect is a band of light in four (on my light) close but distinct lines that project out and around the lens in a circle or semi circle at almost a 90 degree angle. The band of light has slight color to the ring like a rainbow, that's why some call it a 'prism' effect. I was familiar with it prior to getting my light after reading a thread here on CPF in regards, I'll try to link the thread below as it has pictures of this prism or halo like effect. Now, when I got my light and the effect wasn't there I assumed they fixed it through production however in time I noticed it more and more so either I initially missed it or it developed, hence my call to SF to see it there was anything I could do to correct it. Looking at the light it seems the tip of the fresnel lens is where the effect is produced.
> 
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?317170-Disappointed-in-Surefire
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?243696-Surefire-Saint-headlamp-(Part-2)/page2
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?268010-Surefire-Saint-Minimus


Oh I see. I do notice that but maybe mine is the neutral tint Vision it is not so obvious and apparent.


----------



## cland72

Last night I had to water my wife's flower bed pretty late, so I grabbed a recently acquired Z2 Combatlight with a P60 in it. After realizing it probably wasn't the best tool for the job, I went back inside and grabbed my Minimus Vision. Perfect! I still love the rotary style UI, and while some people complain that the max output of 75 lumens is too low, I only needed about half that for the job at hand.


----------



## Kestrel

I know what you mean - it's fun to use the mega-output lights but I always keep my Minimus Vision handy for when I have work to do.
To tell the truth, it will probably get the most use during the fall hunting season.


----------



## pjandyho

After all these years I still like my Minimus Vision and still use it from time to time. I have a Zebralight H602w which is bright and great but the Minimus Vision still remains my favorite.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Used my Minimus last night in an unlit area, great flood for what I was doing but noticed that 'prism' effect as posted earlier in this thread more pronounced. Now the Minimus is not known for being throwy but I was looking at the way the light bounces back down into ones face/eyes and thought maybe the backscattering of light could effect ones vision just enough to lessen your sight distance, like how using fog lights when there is no fog diminishes how far out you can see in front of the vehicle. Being this is the only headlamp I have right now I don't know if other lights splash back in the same fashion but without the backscatter of light I think the Minimus effective range would be greater.


----------



## Kestrel

I know I'm never the first to find these sorts of things out, but it looks like the basic Minimus & Minimus Vision have been discontinued by SF. 
Neither model is showing up on their website, and checking the model on Optics Planet and B&H both list it as discontinued. Pretty bummed - I really like mine and recently purchased one for Mrs. Kestrel as well.


----------



## pulstar

That's sad to hear... But on the other hand, maybe they're just setting the terrain for new, updated versions!


----------



## cland72

Kestrel said:


> I know I'm never the first to find these sorts of things out, but it looks like the basic Minimus & Minimus Vision have been discontinued by SF.
> Neither model is showing up on their website, and checking the model on Optics Planet and B&H both list it as discontinued. Pretty bummed - I really like mine and recently purchased one for Mrs. Kestrel as well.



Wow, that's too bad. I've really grown attached to my Minimus Vision and use it quite often.



pulstar said:


> That's sad to hear... But on the other hand, maybe they're just setting the terrain for new, updated versions!



I hope that's the case, but wouldn't they release the updated model before phasing out the legacy model (like they did with the E1B)?


----------



## Kestrel

From my experience, SF seems to upgrade a product via inline substitution & virtually no associated fanfare, and this doesn't appear to be like that.

IMO they can justify having only so many product lines running - the slow sellers getting unceremoniously dropped when new products get introduced. And we have gotten a number of new designs during 2015, perhaps finally using up the existing inventory of SF Minimus (Minimi? :thinking by the end of the year?


----------



## Woods Walker

Maybe they just didn't sell well. People who own them seem to like um though. A bit of a shame.


----------



## marinemaster

I was going to get one but it seems is already discontinued. Is funny SF takes forever with some products to be available but with headlamps they come and go so fast/discontinued that I can't even keep up.


----------



## marinemaster

Does anyone know if SF made a Minimus Vision AA ? I believe they made a Minimus Vision CR123 but not AA. Any input appreciated.


----------



## Kestrel

I found my most recent (CR123) Minimus at *Light Junction*; they had a few left when I made my recent purchase but it now looks like they are out of stock.

If anybody is interested in getting one, I would recommend looking _now_ because it is only going to get more difficult to find them.


----------



## Kestrel

Small note; when I opened up this newest Minimus, it had a CR123 w/ an expiration date of 06-2025. I know that we will have very few data points for 2015 on this light since SF wound the model down last year, but I'm curious if we'll see any later-production cells in the last lights.

I know that SF's serial numbers aren't perfectly sequential either, but this one is A59796, FWIW.


----------



## Kestrel

marinemaster said:


> Does anyone know if SF made a Minimus Vision AA ? I believe they made a Minimus Vision CR123 but not AA. Any input appreciated.


They made a 2xAA version (with the battery pack mounted just under the body), but it was a poor implementation IMO and is also recently-discontinued.

What they really should have done for an alternate version was to lengthen the existing body by a few mm to make it compatible with 1xAA for somewhat-reduced output. 1x14500 would have made that a /very/ interesting option. :devil:


----------



## cland72

Last night I was crawling around in my attic using my Minimus Vision. It's really a shame they discontinued it. I LOVE the ramping UI, and I know it's a bullet proof little headlamp. The beam profile is awesome and provided plenty of flood for me to see what was around me.


----------



## pjandyho

I wonder how is Surefire going to honor their lifetime warranty when parts are not being produced. It's not like there is a replacement unit that we can change for.


----------



## dwong

UI on my Vision can't be beat, hope for next version/model in 1xAA or 2xAA in thin/slim form.


----------



## gunga

Any good sources for a vision?


----------



## mbw_151

Been looking for another Vision for a while, haven't seen any. I just grabbed a regular Minimus. These seem to be disappearing fast as well. This is a sad development, these are by far my favorite headlamps.


----------



## cland72

gunga said:


> Any good sources for a vision?



I took a look online and found nothing. You might call Surefire directly - I'm sure they have some remaining in stock.


----------



## cland72

Good news, they discontinued the 100 lumen Minimus because they are making a 300 lumen Minimus! Hopefully there will be a Vision model of the new version as well.

https://youtu.be/B_b3N3Ia1-o?t=1m40s


----------



## marinemaster

And 1xAA version needed


----------



## Kestrel

cland72 said:


> Good news, they discontinued the 100 lumen Minimus because they are making a 300 lumen Minimus! Hopefully there will be a Vision model of the new version as well.



I am so very pleased to be wrong: 


Kestrel said:


> From my experience, SF seems to upgrade a product via inline substitution & virtually no associated fanfare, and this doesn't appear to be like that. [...]


----------



## nja4k

A 300 lumen vision with better batterylife and I am all over it.


----------



## marinemaster

1xAA would definitely get my interest.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Looks like they dumped the fresnel lens and that's probably a good thing, too many issues with artifacts and backscatter and not enough throw. Hopefully the runtimes are better too and they just didn't tweak the output with turbo modes and step-downs, we'll see.


----------



## cland72

P_A_S_1 said:


> Looks like they dumped the fresnel lens and that's probably a good thing, too many issues with artifacts and backscatter and not enough throw. Hopefully the runtimes are better too and they just didn't tweak the output with turbo modes and step-downs, we'll see.



While the fresnel lens didn't seem to bother me nearly as much as it did some users here, I'll agree that the reflector change is certainly a welcome upgrade.


----------



## sledhead

Might not be the place to ask but.........looks like no changes to the Maximus and Maximus vision? Anyone have the Maximus vision? Thanks.


----------



## mbw_151

It seems like all the 100 Lumen Minimus and 75 lumen Minimus Vision headlamps have been flushed from the retail system. Anyone have an idea when we'll be able to buy the new reflector models, 300 lumen Minimus and ??? Lumen Minimus Vision? I hope these aren't a victim of "Surefire" months (or years) or worse yet vaporware. Even though I hardly ever use my Vision on high, I want the new higher output version. 

Step one of twelve, "Yes, I am a Flashaholic."


----------



## gunga

Well. I got one of the last minimus vision headlamps in Canada. Nice deal. I echo what everyone has said. Beam artifacts, extra light on the edge that can be distracting with glasses. I added a bit of super lube to smooth the knob action but I could always adjust the output one - handed. I really just wanted a rotary control headlamp. The new version seems nice but is not quite what I wanted. 

I did find an effective if somewhat ghetto fix for the beam. A large patch of DC fix covers the optic and smooths out the beam a lot. It's not super pretty and gets in the way of the red filter (that I won't use) but it works.

Edit: the red filter works fine.


----------



## cland72

gunga said:


> Well. I got one of the last minimus vision headlamps in Canada. Nice deal. I echo what everyone has said. Beam artifacts, extra light on the edge that can be distracting with glasses. I added a bit of super lube to smooth the knob action but I could always adjust the output one - handed. I really just wanted a rotary control headlamp. The new version seems nice but is not quite what I wanted.
> 
> I did find an effective if somewhat ghetto fix for the beam. A large patch of DC fix covers the optic and smooths out the beam a lot. It's not super pretty and gets in the way of the red filter (that I won't use) but it works.
> 
> View attachment 1989



That's amazingly simple! Does it also eliminate the light artifacts/reflection that can hit you on your nose?

edited to add: I've never used my red filter, either. I find that with how dim the white light will go, you really don't need a filter for reducing output.


----------



## gunga

I don't think it's totally eliminated but it's much milder and not really distracting.


----------



## cland72

Awesome, I'll have to try it this weekend.


----------



## gunga

Also note, the red filter still works fine.


----------



## gunga

Note. A user earlier in this thread used a glass frosting spray for the same effect. I think it would work well but don't feel like buying that just for this headlamp. I'd probably want to practice on something else first.


----------



## gunga

Well. The DC fix is ghetto, and will not be durable in field use (where it won't be needed as much anyways), but it functions well. Smooth beam, no distracting prism effect. Probably cuts output, not great for Max output but great for sub lumen lows. The best solution doesn't exist. If the red filter was available as clear, DC fix could be used on that. That would be the best "solution". I may try the glass frosting spray but it's permanent and toxic. We'll see.


----------



## Tachead

Dont worry gunga, when you get your new ZL the Surefire will likely get permanently shelved or sold. At least if you like it as much as I like mine. I have used and tried quite a few headlamps and nothing even comes close to this one imo. Its perfect for my uses anyway.


----------



## gunga

Yes. I know. I just really wanted a rotary control headlamp. No one else sells those.


----------



## Tachead

gunga said:


> Yes. I know. I just really wanted a rotary control headlamp. No one else sells those.



Yeah there is a shortage of rotary control headlamps for sure. At least the ZL has a lot of different brightness levels though and with the programmability you can set it up anyway you want. It may be the next best thing to a rotary or infinitely variable sliding switch like on the Nitecore HC90. And, the button has a very nice feel too.


----------



## gunga

What is the lens made of? Any one try scuffing it up with steel wool or fine sandpaper? I think that could work.

Edit : tried it. The surface is quite hard. Results were meh. I only scuffed the top area. I need to do the entire dome. Not feasible. So now polishing out the scuffs and using DC fix.


----------



## gunga

Well. The DC fix works well but I'm sure it cuts output and the surface is a bit soft and floppy. Just a bit too ghetto for me and my most expensive headlamp. I bit the bullet and used some frosted glass spray. It wasn't perfect:

- I ended up with a few q-tip lint bits. 
- it was tough to get into the deep crevices around the lens (I probably put more than needed and rushed it a tad). 
- I'm sure I did nothing good to my lungs (the stuff, like most spray paint, is toxic). 

In any case, I'm happy with the results. It was about $11 here ($8 usd) and gives me the results in want. It cuts output a bit I'm sure, so Max output is reduced, but then again I wanted this for min output, a silent switch and ramping output. The beam is nice and smooth (though still square). There is still some light coming down on the nose potentially but so far it's not bothering me (I'll need to do more testing to see). 

So here's a pic. 





Highly recommend if you want a smooth beam and lower low. Don't bother if you're happy with the current beam profile or want max output of course. 

This is old tech (cree XRE?) so the new version is intriguing. 

The new minimus is 300 lumens, has 12 programmable levels on the dial, uses a push button switch and has the same reflector as the titan I believe. I don't know what levels are available or if a neutral or high cri version is planned. The new version doesn't fit my needs but could be far superior for many users.


----------



## Kestrel

gunga said:


> [...]The new minimus is 300 lumens, has 12 programmable levels on the dial, uses a push button switch and has the same reflector as the titan I believe. I don't know what levels are available or if a neutral or high cri version is planned. The new version doesn't fit my needs but could be far superior for many users.


Ye gods I didn't know it was that different. If they've moved away from the older rotary UI I confess to having no interest in the new model. :sigh:


----------



## cland72

Kestrel said:


> Ye gods I didn't know it was that different. If they've moved away from the older rotary UI I confess to having no interest in the new model. :sigh:



Ditto.


----------



## gunga

Yep. There is a button on the side. The rotary provides 12 levels. I think they are programmable but am unsure. I really like the old interface, so that's why I got it. I put a glow sticker on the dial and have a large trit coming for the battery cap. Pimping my headlamp...


----------



## gunga

Small update. So usage has been great so far. The frost spray works well. Also, the lowest level is about the same as a zebralight h600fc on second lowest setting. Advertised as 0.05 lumens. Outstanding.


----------



## sledhead

I was just looking at B & H...they have the 100 lumen Minimus in stock? Thought they were history?


----------



## Greenbean

I have a question regarding which model of the Minimus was first? 

The smoother aka "G2 ish tail cap look" knobs with no tether on the battery door, or the more aggressive knurling that had the tether on the smaller battery lid.


----------



## gunga

The knurled one with the tether is the later generation.


----------



## Greenbean

OK cool thanks,

I have my first Minimus coming and it has the G2/G3 looking battery "tube" style to it. 

It's new but I am curious what my verdict is going to be...

May end up being a catch and release...


----------



## gunga

It's hidden in this thread, but there have been numerous improvements. This is the only rotary control headlamp that exists and it works for what I want. A keeper!


----------



## gunga

Here's post #52. Keep reading back. I think they changed the design late 2011?

---
The latest revision of the Minimus has addressed the body tension issue by replacing the two static tension pins with larger pins that have a small set screw in each pin to allow user adjustment of the tension to compensate for wear/manufacturing tolerances, the artifact issue has been eliminated by modifying the refector housing, excessive light knob tension has been adressed with internal seal changes, and the knob lengthened to improve grip. Additionally, a battery cap lanyard has been added to prevent knob dropping/loss.


----------



## Greenbean

Seems I might be looking at an earlier generation.


----------



## gunga

Yep. That's pre 2011


----------



## gunga

Here's my minimus vision with frosty spray to fix beam artifacts.


----------



## cland72

The more I use my Minimus Vision, the more I get the feeling the battery is draining a lot faster than it should. Do any of you feel like the battery is going dead long before you think it should?

Example: I replaced the battery and used the light for about 20 minutes. Next time I pulled it out of my bag, I turned it up to full brightness and it gave me the low battery warning flash. This all occurred within the last 3 months. I use USA made CR123 cells.


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## Greenbean

Thought I read somewhere doing some research on the internet that some of the models of the headlamp were prone to rather thought I read somewhere doing some research on the internet that some of the models of the headlamp for prone to rather high parasitic drain, one user always loosens his battery compartment before putting it in his glove box. 

Might be what's going on,


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## Greenbean

I'd love to score a vision model.... 

Looks great!


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## gunga

I get low voltage flash on max too quickly. But I use it on minimum most of the time.


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## Greenbean

Well I will begin testing tomorrow night, 

This is going to be my first Surefire headlamp, 

I do like the rechargeable version they have out now but I need a headlamp with long term storage battery life, aka CR123 that can live in the truck for weeks at a time.


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## Greenbean

The tint is not warm but seems to be a real neutral white and gets warmer in the peripherals.


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## cland72

Greenbean said:


> Here it is,
> 
> I am really wanting to know if it's at least the updated version w/out the light stripe across the nose and such.
> The tint is not warm but seems to be a real neutral white and gets warmer in the peripherals.
> The photo with the price is just to see the model number and such.
> Closest thing to a white wall to illustrate the beam profile is the fridge.



This appears to be the first gen version, not the most recent version.


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## Greenbean

Thanks, I figured it was first Gen but how do I confirm it has the better beam profile? 

I have been searching and searching the Internet for comparison photos and can't seem to confirm anything.


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## gunga

I think they all have artifacts. It's an XRE LED behind a clear optic. That line at the bottom is the prism effect people describe. It's a bright line on your nose. My late generation one has it a bit too. The glass frosting spray fixed my beam issues and gives me a nice smooth flood.


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## Greenbean

Hmmm, 

10-4, 

Guess the test later tonight will see what comes of it.


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## gunga

I did a rather poor job (old norland?) but the coin slot on the new minimus is a good fit for a 2x12mm trit.


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## Greenbean

Neat idea!


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## P_A_S_1

I have the newer version and it has the 'prism' effect. At first I didn't notice it but now it's quite pronounced and seemed to get worse with use. Of all the minor issues with the minimus it is the most annoying.


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## Kestrel

cland72 said:


> The more I use my Minimus Vision, the more I get the feeling the battery is draining a lot faster than it should. Do any of you feel like the battery is going dead long before you think it should?
> 
> Example: I replaced the battery and used the light for about 20 minutes. Next time I pulled it out of my bag, I turned it up to full brightness and it gave me the low battery warning flash. This all occurred within the last 3 months. I use USA made CR123 cells.





Greenbean said:


> Thought I read somewhere doing some research on the internet that some of the models of the headlamp were prone to rather thought I read somewhere doing some research on the internet that some of the models of the headlamp for prone to rather high parasitic drain, one user always loosens his battery compartment before putting it in his glove box.


Recently I have been using fresh SureFire CR123's with this light, and I'm starting to suspect that mine behaves like this as well. :thinking:


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## P_A_S_1

Greenbean said:


> Thought I read somewhere doing some research on the internet that some of the models of the headlamp were prone to rather thought I read somewhere doing some research on the internet that some of the models of the headlamp for prone to rather high parasitic drain, *one user always loosens his battery compartment before putting it in his glove box*.
> 
> Might be what's going on,




IDK about the first generation but on the newer models with the knurling this won't work. The moment the battery cap makes contact with the body there is a connection so short of removing the battery you'll get a little drain. There is no lock out feature.


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## Kestrel

Yes PAS1 that was my thinking as well.


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## mbw_151

I just checked the Minimus headlamps I put in my cars and truck about a year and a half ago, all flat. I put a new cell in with electrical tape on the positive end. Not the most convenient approach, but the cell won't be flat. There is a 6P in the glove box too so if I need light fast, that's not an issue.


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## Kestrel

Yup, have checked the fresh cell that went in a few months back, and get the low-voltage indication on it as well.
So now that this behavior has been verified on my relatively-recent-production Minimus Vision, I admit that I'm a little disappointed.
Guess I'll have to use some sort of non-conductive insert in mine as well as Mrs. Kestrels'.


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## pulstar

gunga said:


> I think they all have artifacts. It's an XRE LED behind a clear optic. That line at the bottom is the prism effect people describe. It's a bright line on your nose. My late generation one has it a bit too. The glass frosting spray fixed my beam issues and gives me a nice smooth flood.



How did that work out for you? After a year my minimus vision also developed pronounced prismatic reflection. I don't know why, when i first recieved it, there was none. 
Did glass frosting spray resolve that issue? How about overall brightness, did you loose some?


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## gunga

While overall brightness is likely reduced, the frosting spray makes the beam smooth and floody. I don't have the reflection issue. It's much better. Not fun nor perfect but it works. I'm not a big fan of the size and old LED, be there is no other headlamp with this UI.

Btw, I think I may have the parasitic drain issue too. I can't warranty it because it's discontinued.


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## P_A_S_1

pulstar said:


> How did that work out for you? After a year my minimus vision also developed pronounced prismatic reflection. I don't know why, when i first recieved it, there was none.
> Did glass frosting spray resolve that issue? How about overall brightness, did you loose some?



Mine did too. How can that be, so odd.


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## pulstar

gunga said:


> While overall brightness is likely reduced, the frosting spray makes the beam smooth and floody. I don't have the reflection issue. It's much better. Not fun nor perfect but it works. I'm not a big fan of the size and old LED, be there is no other headlamp with this UI.
> 
> Btw, I think I may have the parasitic drain issue too. I can't warranty it because it's discontinued.



I wouldn't mind sending it back. Lifetime warranty FTW On the side note: Has anyone already called Surefire about that issue? I would, but international calls are quite expensive and being foreign speaker there's an ever problematic language barrier. I can write and talk quite good, but specific conversations with native english speakers soon prove that wrong


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## gunga

I can try. My fear is that they won't have a replacement. This light is rare now.


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## pulstar

I would probably be ok with 'only' repair. Since the lens seems to be securely epoxied to the housing, i wonder if position of the LED changed just by a small margin and lens started to scatter the light. Either way, not good if something unscrewes/changes after a while... First i thought i scrached the lens, but found out it's in pristine condition.


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## P_A_S_1

pulstar said:


> I wouldn't mind sending it back. Lifetime warranty FTW On the side note: Has anyone already called Surefire about that issue? I would, but international calls are quite expensive and being foreign speaker there's an ever problematic language barrier. I can write and talk quite good, but specific conversations with native english speakers soon prove that wrong



I have and after explaining the issue the rep told me to send it in to be checked out. I never did because I recall reading in one of these thread that someone did return their light and SF deemed it normal and sent it back.


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## gunga

You're talking about the prism issue? What about the parasitic drain?


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## P_A_S_1

Yes, the prism issue. Not the drain.


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## pulstar

That's bad news, since I recall that some headlamps were returned and replaced because of the reflection issue. I wonder if there's anything we can do...  I really like everything about my Minimus, but that reflection really is annoying,


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## gunga

Try frosted glass spray.


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## Kestrel

If I find mine to be annoying in that respect, I'll break out my HF glass frosting / etchant (typically sourced from arts&crafts stores). Really worked well back in CPF's bulb frosting days.


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## cland72

I love my Minimus Vision. I hate the parasitic drain issue. I don't notice/mind the prismatic reflection.


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## gunga

It's too bad there isn't an updated version. Especially with the same UI.


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