# 4x6 metal bandsaw stand/base and mods ...



## wquiles (Jan 30, 2014)

Here is my second welding project (first one was my welding table!), and one of my most used tools for working on flashlight mods.

I have had this HF 4x6 probably since 2007 or so. Right when I got it, I discarded the flimsy folding "legs", and made a wood base for it. I later added a hydraulic piston to replace the spring, and for the most part that has been it until last fall (2013). But now that I am starting to do/learn more welding, and cutting metal more often, I decided to "attack" the many weak points, including the over-heating motor (which is obviously too small for the job - some of these actually catch on fire!). I also wanted to add cooling to it, so I decided to do a complete overhaul of the bandsaw. This took about 3 months (on and off), and several purchases spread over the 3 months (I am on a budget, like most people), but now that it is 99% complete, I wanted to share my project.

I of course over-built the base/stand, but I figured I can fairly easily re-use the base with another bandsaw if this one totally needs a replacement later on. I used 1-1/4" (1/8" wall) squared hot rolled steel, and 1-1/4" (1/4" wall) angle iron for the top. Everything was MIG welded with my MIG200 using 0.035" solid wire with about 25cfpm of 75%/35% shielding gas. 

I literally have over 100 pictures, so over the next few days I will pick-n-choose some of them to show the progression towards the end product you see below.

Here is the "before" picture - I am checking the size of the new top (notice size of stock motor):







Here is the "raw" new welded base:






Previous wood base next to new base:






Preliminary picture showing the hydraulic piston in place:






Finished bandsaw after all mods:
- new steel base (2 coats of flat black paint)
- replaced 1/3 HP (Chinese rating!) SP motor with USA-made, Baldor 3/4HP 3P motor (using TECO VFD for variable speed and safety switch)
- new clamping "system" (more on that later)
- making new "arm" for hydraulic system
- adjustable coolant system (running 














Will


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## StrikerDown (Jan 30, 2014)

Will,
That looks really nice and you seem to be getting quite handy with the VFD conversions! How do you like your HTP? I have their TIG 221 and I'm really impressed with it, thank you Barry!

I assume it is used to keep the saw in the up position until you need to cut but can you explain how the hydraulic piston works or is used?


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## schizeckinosy (Jan 31, 2014)

great conversion and writeup! Thanks for sharing. I like seeing tool restorations/upgrades.

Striker, I assume you mean that you "have" a tig221...


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## wquiles (Jan 31, 2014)

Ray,

The stock bandsaw comes with this stupid spring, which is meant to "try" to counterbalance the weight of the horizontal mass, in order to "try" to control how fast that mass (and thus the blade) moves down. You basically have a screw that you move in and out to change the tension on the spring against the moving mass. The problem is that it is nearly impossible to get the spring to perfectly balance the weight AND control how fast the whole assembly moves down. Bottom line: the spring does not allow fine-tuning the speed to accommodate a variety of materials.

The hydraulic piston controls how fast the whole assembly moves down, by letting hydraulic fluid slowly escape via the adjustment valve. You can also completely stop the movement at any position along the travel angle, which comes handy to align the cut with the blade. This adjustment made available by the valve is "very" wide, thus you have almost infinite control on how fast the blade moves down into the work, so that you can adjust to the material type, thickness, number of pieces being cut, etc.. This flexibility is why ALL of the larger bandsaws have a hydraulic piston on them. The 4x6 don't have one (and have the stupid spring) not because it is not needed, but because cost - it is the only way to keep the saw cheap and available to the hobby machinist. Here are two Grizzly bandsaws showing a hydraulic piston on them:











These videos I took 3-years ago, but clearly show the adjustment range I have in my bandsaw:
- Video 1: This is the fastest down travel, fully opening the valve very fast. It you watch closely, you can clearly see the speed increasing as I open the valve:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6imAX3KnQ4


- Video 2: This is a slightly slower down travel speed. You could probably cut wood this fast, or a thin walled metal part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEVeIn5Bv2Y


- Video 3: This is an example of a very slow, controlled downward speed obtainable with the hydraulic piston. This range of speed (or a tad faster) is typically what I use when cutting most metals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-TpwCDG_5k


If you look at the 4x6 Yahoo group, you will see that this hydraulic conversion is one of the most popular upgrades. Lots of ingenuity in how folks have added a hydraulic piston to their 4x6 bandsaw, and it was from that group that I got the idea to do mine back 3 years ago.

Will


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## wquiles (Jan 31, 2014)

schizeckinosy said:


> great conversion and writeup! Thanks for sharing. I like seeing tool restorations/upgrades.
> 
> Striker, I assume you mean that you "have" a tig221...



That is what I assumed




StrikerDown said:


> Will,
> That looks really nice and you seem to be getting quite handy with the VFD conversions! How do you like your HTP? I hate their TIG 221 and I'm really impressed with it, thank you Barry!


I did some minor tweaks on my welder, but YES, I am really happy with my MIG welder from HTP. Their service/support is OUTSTANDING 




StrikerDown said:


> I assume it is used to keep the saw in the up position until you need to cut but can you explain how the hydraulic piston works or is used?


I hope I covered this above. If not, go ahead and ask additional questions and I will try to clarify as best as I can.


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## wquiles (Jan 31, 2014)

For the new base and clamping "system", I wanted to be able to hold stock at 45 deg on both sides of the blade. The stock system/clamp of course can't do this, so I gave up on it, and went to a simple model where (similar to welding) I just clamp the piece to the base. It is more work, and much slower, but I can now do things I could not do easily before. So not an "improvement", just a different way of holding stuff being cut. In fact, I did this first, and cut every single piece for the new stand using the new "system".

The new base started life as a scrap piece, 3/8" thick:






After removing some of the high points in the mill:






I started cutting it to "fit" - the idea being that it had to extend past the current "base" in order to allow me to clamp pieces to be cut to this new base:






Fast forward to having everything drilled and tapped:






I then started work on the first of two fences (one for each side of the blade):






After some more work, and drilling and tapping, I now have one of the two fences ready:






I then cut the fence flush, and allow the blade to go through the surface of the base, without going completely through it:












Now, to align that fence, I align it to the cut/groove on the base:











So now to cut something, I camp the piece to the base, using the fence for alignment:












Or use another piece of angle iron to clamp the piece to be cut to the rigid fence (similar to the stock clamping system):






I then worked on the other fix fence, for the other side, which will only be used to make 45 deg cuts:







With the hydraulic piston, I can get the blade to within a small distance of the piece, and measure accurately:





So using the new "system", I cut the pieces, and checked the basic design by stacking the pieces - surprisingly it could stand on its own!






Since the casters were going to be offset, I added re-reinforcements to the design:











Since the design I came up with had the weight of the bandsaw not aligned with the main support, I also added reinforcements there:






And since I can now cut accurate 45 deg, I prepared all of the pieces:











So I then started to clean up, prepare, bevel, etc. all of the LEGO pieces:


























As with my prior project, I practiced and fine-tuned the MIG200 settings with the same size pieces I was going to be welding:





















I actually measured the approx. wire speed to have an idea on where to start:






I then started to weld (finally!):


























After grinding (to allow welding of other parts, casters, etc..

















That LED light that I made, that I showed earlier works great. Here is the before and after photos, with and without it:











More welding:


























Basic frame is complete:






I then started work on the two "arms" that hold the bandsaw above the drain:































So now I have the two arms ready:






After grinding:






This is why I have that bevel cut on the bottom (facing the angle iron):






To weld them, I added some "weight" I had laying around, which keeps them aligned and flat:





















I then made (from scrap pieces) the "ears" which will bolt to the actual bandsaw. If I ever have to replace the bandsaw, these would be the ones to cut away and make new ones to fit the "new" bandsaw, thus reusing most of the base/stand:
















And after grinding:











Test fit:






Then drill the holes in the ears:











Then I moved to "make" an arm, that would tie the upper bandsaw assembly to the base/stand. But I wanted something stronger, since it has to be offset a couple of inches outward. In order to make sure I would not crack the arm, I came up with an additional bolting point:











I also wanted this new arm to be removable, so it is offset backwards a little:






This was all done with basically scrap pieces:


























I then welded the extended piece which ties to the hydraulic piston:


























Final "arm":


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## wquiles (Feb 1, 2014)

For the VFD, following my mentor's advice, I put it away from swarf, but I also wanted an external enclosure to protect the unit and wiring. I found a scrap metal box in my "shop", which was almost the right size:











I then made a steel support for it:
















The box bolts to the support "T" with two bolts (and silicone in between), and the VFD bolts to the box at 4x places:











This whole assembly is then welded under the pan, ensuring that the VFD/electronics will remain free of debris and coolant:











I then gave everything two coats of flat black paint:











For the pan, I used galvanized steel, which I cut to size, to fit inside the angle iron top:






I then applied silicone to the whole thing, to ensure a good seal - no screws needed - the surface tension along that much surface area is more than plenty:






I then applied weight in the middle, to bow down the metal, thus ensuring coolant will flow towards the middle:






After the top dried, I went back and applied another thick bead of silicone to make sure everything was plenty well sealed. I then moved to work on the bottom "shelf". Again, used galvanized steel, and epoxy:





















I then moved to make the drain hole:












Siicone sealed on both sides:






then found the perfect strainer for large debris:






This is how it looked at that point in time:






I then got another plumbing piece (with a larger inside diameter than the drain tube), to make the connection. The fit is such I can slide the white piece up and town to "make" the connection, thus allowing me an easy way to remove the 5-gallon if/when needed:











And after testing, it worked like I hoped (note the extra heavy silicone against the angle iron!):






I even found use for the cap:






And for those interested, this is the coolant I am using (at 10% concentration with distilled water):


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## wquiles (Feb 1, 2014)

Now that the electrical wiring is protected from coolant, I can assemble and wire the new VFD and 3-phase motor. I started by installing a grommet to protect the single phase power coming into the VFD:











Since I needed to have the right length for the 3-phase motor wire, I installed the new Baldor 3/4HP motor. Look how much larger it is compared to the "1/3" HP factory unit (would get so hot I could barely touch it!):






I of course used the low voltage wiring as my VFD outputs 220V 3-phase:











Then tie everything together and test - I got lucky (50-50 chance) that the motor started turning in the direction I wanted!:






I then wired the switch for the coolant pump (inside the 5-gallon, with the inlet a few inches from the bottom, so it does not suck in much debris), tie-wrap everything securely, and that is all:






The only thing to note/add, is that the original ON/OFF switch on the bandsaw is now a logical signal to the VFD. The switch is re-wired as an E-STOP (emergency stop), so now I have an extra safety step to get the motor running, as it takes two steps:
- E-STOP has to be UP
- I can only start the motor by pressing the START/STOP button on the VFD (which is recessed on purpose, so nearly impossible to hit/press by accident).
- Moving this E-STOP switch UP will never start the motor, but it has to be up for the START/STOP on the VFD to work at all.


The small dial on the VFD (also recessed) controls the speed of the motor, so I never have to change belts again to adjust speed to material, thickness, number of pieces, etc.. The coolant switch is independent of the motor, so I can choose and adjust the output flow if/when needed.


Will


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## gadget_lover (Feb 1, 2014)

As usual, you've done a fantastic job of upgrading a consumer grade tool to near professional condition. I wish my upgrades were 1/2 as nice. Wait! Mine ARE 1/2 as nice! LOL


Daniel


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## wquiles (Feb 1, 2014)

Thank you Daniel for your kind words. I hope to do more welding projects, so having the improved bandsaw will surely come handy


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## precisionworks (Feb 2, 2014)

Great design & professional welding. Thanks for posting.


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## wquiles (Feb 3, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> Great design & professional welding. Thanks for posting.



Thank you Barry


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## StrikerDown (Feb 3, 2014)

Yes, have... Sheeesh! 

Thanks for posting this Will, Very nice work as usual. Great welding and welding table too! 
Now you just need to get a TIG welder! 
I'm thinking you might be up for the challenge!


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## wquiles (Feb 5, 2014)

StrikerDown said:


> Yes, have... Sheeesh!
> 
> Thanks for posting this Will, Very nice work as usual. Great welding and welding table too!
> Now you just need to get a TIG welder!
> I'm thinking you might be up for the challenge!



Thanks for the complements, but I honestly have no desire to try TIG yet. Not even close. I still have a lot more to learn with MIG, and to be more consistent.

It is likely my next project will be a totally new welded base for my PM12x36 lathe. At least right now I am thinking about using 2"x2" square tubing (1/4" wall), so I started doodling a few ideas on paper


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## 350xfire (Feb 9, 2014)

Nice!


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## Kingston (Feb 9, 2014)

Very nice work, you've out classed the HF bandsaw that you started with! By the looks of things, I wouldn't surprised to see that you continued fabricating and improving until got to the blade, building yourself a custom saw...


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## wquiles (Feb 11, 2014)

Thanks guys 

it was a very small/simple job, but I used the "new" saw this last weekend to cut a small brass piece:


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## gt40 (Feb 25, 2014)

Thanks for another inspiring thread. Amazing conversion!


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## KC2IXE (Feb 25, 2014)

So, here is a good question - for "general" use, what do you find to be the best blade? Not TYPE (I usually run diemaster 2 blades, or equivalent) I usually don't run enough of any one size to change blades for the optimum tooth cound, so tend to run 10-14 varitooth, but think it might be a BIT fine, and have thought of going to the 8-12 or even a 6-10, as I'm usually (USUALLY) cutting 5/8 diameter or better, and if I'm running flat stock, it's usually fairly wide. My worry is more when cutting angle and tubing with 1/8" walls. That said, I'm often running 2-3" wide angle with 3/16 and 1/4" walls. I'll tell you, you go to cut off some 3" wide, 1" 7075 or steel, the 10-14 takes a while


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## precisionworks (Feb 26, 2014)

From the M K Morse Blade Selection Handbook. Rectangular solids in red column, round solids in amber, structurals in blue.

My saw runs the Morse Matrix II Bi-Metal (equal to Lenox Diemaster 2) with the 6/10 variable pitch blace. The 6 tpi is too coarse for thin wall structurals & the 10 tpi is too fine for large solids but that one blade cuts everything I use. YMMV.


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## KC2IXE (Feb 26, 2014)

Yeah, I'd seen the charts (Heck, I've talked with Lenox, Starrett etc), and they all, of course want you to run the right blade for each job. I figured asking here were folks have found the right balance was a good choice. I've always run the 10-14s, and I figured "hey, slow is better than grab", but recently I've been running a lot more thick stock, and it has been getting silly. As I said, these days, most structural I run has at least a 1/8" wall, so 10-14 is a bit fine for even that, but then I worry about cutting round stock (that said, I'm probably as likely to run that as a stick, and part off). I'm thinking next time around, I'll go up ONE to the 8-12, and see how I like it, and may even buy a 6-10 at the same time. Cutting 2x2 6061 solids gets old with a 10-14 as you might guess, as does cutting a chunk of 1" thick, 4" wide 7075, although for a lot of cuts you can clamp upright


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## gadget_lover (Feb 26, 2014)

The chart has a misprint. There should be a column that lists "whatever is on the saw" as the right blade. 


What I need is a chart that shows how many minutes to cut a 2 inch bar of 6061 with each blade so I can tell if it's faster to use the existing blade or faster to change to the right one. 

Daniel


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## spencer (Feb 26, 2014)

I can tell you that in industry, at least in the shop I worked in, the only reason a blade ever got changed was to throw it in the garbage. The same blade cut everything from 10x54 beam (or heavier) to 1x1x.100 HSS. It cut stainless, mild steel, and aluminum. Having said that, blade speed was adjusted based on material (SS, MS, AL) so that probably helped. This saw ran 8-10 hours a day so changing blades wouldn't be reasonable and to still get everything done.


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## KC2IXE (Feb 26, 2014)

Oh, yeah, when I worked for the crane company, it was pretty much the same way, one blade, but in my case, the question is, WHICH one blade.
I can't totally say one blade at the crane company, because we had 2 saws, and the "big" saw was setup with a blade with less teeth than the "small" saw, and in addition, we had a large Iron worker, and anything less than say 4" wide and 1/4" thick (including angle iron with legs that size) went in the shear, and we chopped it.
Was funny, because that was a job where about the smallest drill bit ever used was 1/4", and the next job, about the largest we ever used was 1/4". Most holes were punched. That said, running a drill press with a MT5 taper was a normal thing


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## spencer (Feb 26, 2014)

I don't know which blade was used (teeth/foot). We also had several ironworkers but they generally weren't used for shearing unless we needed thousands of pieces >12" ish long. Its just nicer to work with a nice square cut edge than a shitty sheared edge.


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## KC2IXE (Feb 26, 2014)

Oh yeah, if you need a nice edge, you cut, but notice what I said we were building? Cranes. Most stuff, +- 1/16 was CLOSE work. Most work was: cut I beam to length, draw centerline across width with soapstone, slap hole jig on, align, transfer punch the holes, lift beam with crane, bring to iron worker, punch oval holes to for bolts at marked locations (usually for 7/8 or 3/4 high strength bolts), return to saw horses, flip, drill end of beam for alignment pins, sometimes weld on U channel cap, Take crane, move over to paint area, go to stock pile, pick next beam from the pile, repeat. Angles and flats were usually for a diagonal brace, or an end stop for a track beam, and THOSE we used the say, as they were usually something like 4" leg, and memory (35 years old, so) has them circa 3/8" thick. Painting for stuff like that was "hang on a wire S hook, dip in bucket of grey paint, hang on the rack"
I started there in High School, young enough I couldn't work in the shop, and did things like assemble catalog books. Day came I could work in the shop, and I started with painting. By the end of the month, they saw I cared, so they taught me to weld, run a lathe, mill, etc. Eventually became a full up hoist mechanic, as well as able to do any gig in the shop, plus having taken 2 years of drafting, could draw the bosses sketches too. Did that for 6 years till I was done with college and tech school, afternoons and ever school break. By the end, I was rarely painting (unless they needed something sprayed) and at that, usually wasn't cutting beams or the like. Was too busy repairing hoists, doing installs, or welding or on the lathe/mill (rare, Eddie mostly did that)


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## wquiles (Feb 26, 2014)

I don't care much for the tables/suggestions. I do this for a hobby, and I use the same blade for everything. For the last 2-3 years I have been using this:

64 1/2" x 1/2" x 14T Bimetal Bands $13.41 each

An I ordered them from (no affiliation): 

Kenny Schmidt
Industrial Saw & Grinding, Inc.
3920 Rufe Snow Dr.
N. Richland Hills, TX 76180
(817) 284-7416
[email protected]
www.industrialsawandgrinding.com


Once I finished the bandsaw project, I finally took the blade that was there and put a new one in. That one that I trowed away was 2+ years old, with heavy application of a lubricating stick, like this one, and I cut a LOT of Maglites (50+), at least 10+ Titanium rod (about 5/8" dia), all of the steel for my welding table, and all of the steel for the bandsaw cart. In fact, I think it was forum member Will (darkzero) or Daniel (gadget_lover) who suggested the stick years ago - it works great, but you have to re-apply as you are cutting. With the coolant, I will no longer have to worry about it 

Now that it is running coolant (which will not only lubricate but actually cool down the blade), I bet the blade will either:
- last even longer, or
- allow a similar life but cutting much faster than before (which is my goal)


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## gt40 (Feb 26, 2014)

I am pretty certain you will achieve both longer life and improved speed. I base this on my trials with my Agazzani B-24 bandsaw


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## precisionworks (Feb 27, 2014)

> ... I've always run the 10-14s, and I figured "hey, slow is better than grab" ...



The greatest drawback of a too fine pitch is that the teeth are rubbing a lot but cutting very little. Chips from a blade of correct pitch look like numbers 6 or 9 but a too fine pitch produces tiny chips that look like coarse dust. Optimum pitch is that which has 3 teeth in contact with the stock. It's easy to run a coarse pitch blade in thin stock if the downfeed is very slow.



> ... Now that it is running coolant (which will not only lubricate but actually cool down the blade) ...



Three factors primarily influence blade life:



Correct pitch for material being cut
Correct downfeed pressure
Blade cleaning - chip removal

Lots of band saw users miss cleaning & chip removal. Cleaning is accomplished with a combination of flood lubricant & blade brushes that rub against the blade before it goes through the guides (both before & after the cutting area). 

Flood coolant does two jobs on a band saw:



Reduces heat at the tip of each tooth
Carries chips out of the cut where they can be removed with blade brushes

The best blade today is the variable pitch 1-50 tpi bimetal from Unobtainum Industries


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## PEU (Feb 27, 2014)

Pro work Will, felicitaciones! 


Pablo


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## wquiles (Feb 28, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> Three factors primarily influence blade life:
> 
> 
> 1- Correct pitch for material being cut
> ...



1- Never going to worry about it, until the 1-50 tpi bimetal (Unobtanium) becomes more widely available :naughty:

2- Agreed, and hence while the hydraulic piston is such a nice addition

3- Agreed. In fact, I am a little surprised that no-one has yet asked about the small red "thing" in my bandsaw pictures. 










precisionworks said:


> Lots of band saw users miss cleaning & chip removal. Cleaning is accomplished with a combination of flood lubricant & blade brushes that rub against the blade before it goes through the guides (both before & after the cutting area).



If is in fact a very crude, cheap, and simple blade cleaning/chip removal "system":











Every 6-months, on my regular teeth checkup/cleanup, my dentist gives me a brand new REACH tooth brush. I don't use them (I use an electric toothbrush), but I never throw those away, as I can use them to clean parts around the shop, but for this project, I simply cut most of the handle off, drill one hole, and attached it as you see above, right after the tension rollers, before the blades goes into the drive wheel. It not only stops the majority of the debris, but it also captures a lot of the coolant, so it is less messy. In fact, in that picture you can see steel, brass, and Titanium chips


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## darkzero (Mar 1, 2014)

Will, try a 6-10 TPI blade. I used to only use 10-14 TPI bi-metal blades from Irwin. It cut pretty much anything I threw at it but cutting 1"+ dia Ti bar & up to 5"dia took forever, well longer than I would like to wait. I now only use 6-10 TPI bi-metal blades from Lenox & I love them. I really don't care about a finer cut as everything cuts faced anyway. The only time I ever use the 10-14 blade now is for tubing, small diameters like smaller than 3/8, or plastics which is not often. For me the 6-10 blades has made a big difference in performance & will hold me over until I upgrade to a larger saw.


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## wquiles (Mar 2, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Will, try a 6-10 TPI blade.



Cool, thanks for the suggestion. I only have one 10-14 blade on the shelf now, so I could buy a 6-10TPI bimetal to have around for the next blade swap.

Where do you buy yours from/at?


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## darkzero (Mar 2, 2014)

wquiles said:


> Cool, thanks for the suggestion. I only have one 10-14 blade on the shelf now, so I could buy a 6-10TPI bimetal to have around for the next blade swap.
> 
> Where do you buy yours from/at?



I get them from MSC. https://www.mscdirect.com/product/82909524 

I suppose they might be cheaper elsewhere but I have a local MSC outlet now so I just go there to pick one up or order one to have it the next day & save on shipping.


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## wquiles (Mar 2, 2014)

Thanks Will. Now with the part number, I found Zorotools has it on ebay for a few dollars less:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321328128105?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## darkzero (Mar 2, 2014)

wquiles said:


> Thanks Will. Now with the part number, I found Zorotools has it on ebay for a few dollars less:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/321328128105?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT



Interesting, I didn't even notice the price on MSC, when I log in the price changes to $30.93 for me.

If you order directly from Zoro (price should be the same as ebay), code BEADS is 20% off $75, expires tomorrow, free shipping over $50. not sure if the code would work for you as I received it in an email because of items left in my cart but FORGETMENOT is $5 off $25, expires tomorrow. I used it already so not sure if it works more than once.


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## wquiles (Mar 3, 2014)

Thanks Will. I will watch the specials (I get their emails) and will try to get 1-2 blades next time I order from them


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## precisionworks (Mar 3, 2014)

Friends don't let their friends pay too much 

Zoro does have some good specials, their best was in February with $40 off a $200 order. No current special so far this month. 

The best price I've found for bi-metal saw blades, either Lennox or M K Morse, is through DCT Industrial. Phone 800.235.0637 & Stacey will ask for the exact length you need & the blade pitch (blades are custom welded to the length you specify). Prices are much lower than anything else I've found.


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## wquiles (Mar 25, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Interesting, I didn't even notice the price on MSC, when I log in the price changes to $30.93 for me.
> 
> If you order directly from Zoro (price should be the same as ebay), code BEADS is 20% off $75, expires tomorrow, free shipping over $50. not sure if the code would work for you as I received it in an email because of items left in my cart but FORGETMENOT is $5 off $25, expires tomorrow. I used it already so not sure if it works more than once.




Will,

Finally catch a 20% special at Zorro, so I ordered two of the Lennox 6-10 TPI. And it was not only the special that was the "trigger" - I was cutting a 3.5" dia of solid Aluminum (rod) and as you indicated earlier, it does take a while with the "small" teeth!. I will report later once I get and use the 6-10 TPI blade.

Thanks again man


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## precisionworks (Mar 27, 2014)

wquiles said:


> ... I will report later once I get and use the 6-10 TPI blade.


For general purpose use that's a great choice. Watch out when cutting thin stuff & slow the downfeed so the teeth don't strip out. These blades last so long I can never remember when the last one was changed (if all the protocols are followed).


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## wquiles (Mar 27, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> For general purpose use that's a great choice. Watch out when cutting thin stuff & slow the downfeed so the teeth don't strip out. These blades last so long I can never remember when the last one was changed (if all the protocols are followed).



Will do - thanks


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## darkzero (Mar 29, 2014)

wquiles said:


> Will,
> 
> Finally catch a 20% special at Zorro, so I ordered two of the Lennox 6-10 TPI. And it was not only the special that was the "trigger" - I was cutting a 3.5" dia of solid Aluminum (rod) and as you indicated earlier, it does take a while with the "small" teeth!. I will report later once I get and use the 6-10 TPI blade.
> 
> Thanks again man



No problem Will. Like Barry mentioned, they last a long time. I have wore out the Irwin 10-14 blades from throwing stuff at it that it was not optimal for but I have never wore out one of the Lennox blades yet under normal use. I have damaged one before from improper speeds & feeds I'm assuming. Not sure if breaking in bandsaw blades is just a myth of fact (can't tell much of a difference) but I had a fairly new blade start cutting off to one side that drove me crazy until I actually looked at the blade teeth & realized what happened.


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## precisionworks (Mar 29, 2014)

From Starrett: 
BLADE BREAK-IN Using the right break-in procedures for a bimetal blade assures longer blade life, faster cuts for a longer period of time and consistent performance. Conversely, blade life can be significantly compromised if the proper break-in procedures are not followed. LONGER BLADE LIFE The teeth on a new band saw blade are razor sharp. To withstand the cutting pressures of band sawing, the tip of each tooth should be honed to create an extremely small radius on its tip

From Lennox:
What is blade break-in? A new band saw blade has razor sharp tooth tips. In order to withstand the cutting pressures used in band sawing, tooth tips should be honed to form a micro-fine radius. Failure to perform this honing will cause microscopic damage to the tips of the teeth, resulting in reduced blade life. 
Why break in? Completing a proper break-in on a new band saw blade will dramatically increase its life.

A good read: http://www.thefabricator.com/article/sawing/band-saw-blade-basics


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## Atlascycle (Mar 30, 2014)

You probably will not see any benefit from breaking in the blade in most applications. I have 2 Fully automatic band saws at my day job. They are set up to cut 6" od up to 9"od pipe/tubing with wall thicknesses from .280" to .500". When you have a saw that will be in cut for a measurable amount of time that you will be able to track, you will possibly see the benefit. With the way most "shop" saws are used you are probably not going to track you cuts to be able to properly break in the blade. it takes my automatic saws about 3 hrs to do a "Proper" break in of the blade.


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## precisionworks (Mar 30, 2014)

From Do-All:

Always break in a new band saw blade.
The blade break-in procedure dresses and strengthens new, ultra-sharp teeth. Proper break-in can increase band life by 25 to 50 percent.
Breaking in the blade
• Saw at the recommended band speed.
• Cut at 1/2 the normal feed rate. (Cuts should take twice as long).
• Cut for 20 minutes (40 minutes for DoALL Powder Metal blades), then increase feed force in steps
until you attain the normal cutting rate.
To ensure penetration in very tough and work-hardening materials, you will need to apply more feed force and cut at a faster rate than described above.

---------------------------------------------

I claim to know nothing about bi-metal blades except that every manufacturer recommends break in & states that no break in results in shorter life. Any chunk of thick steel works for me & makes the process go fast - start the cut at half downfeed pressure, walk away & do something else until the saw shuts off, repeat until the blade has 20 minutes runtime. 

Or disregard the only thing that all manufacturers agree on.


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## wquiles (Apr 4, 2014)

Started the gentle break-in today:


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## wquiles (Jul 19, 2014)

Well will, you were of course right, this blade and this TPI is awesome for the larger diameter parts. This Al rod was 3" OD:






And look at the finish quality:







Will


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## darkzero (Jul 28, 2014)

wquiles said:


> Well will, you were of course right, this blade and this TPI is awesome for the larger diameter parts.



I'm glad you like them as much as I did. Well I still like/use them although there are others I have been recommended & came across. MSC usually has the size for my new bandsaw on sale & my local MSC outlet has them in stock so I'll just stick with Lenox. Which reminds me, I need to go pick up one more size.


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## themayor (Nov 12, 2014)

do these type of bandsaws run fast enough for friction cutting titanium?


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## gadget_lover (Nov 13, 2014)

It only runs 200 FPM. That's probably not fast enough.

Dan


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## precisionworks (Nov 13, 2014)

A woodcutting band saw does a nice job on aluminum. IIRC the blade speed on my Delta 14" is about 2500 sfpm.


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## wquiles (Nov 14, 2014)

themayor said:


> do these type of bandsaws run fast enough for friction cutting titanium?



I cut Titanium, steel, and Aluminum all of the time in mine. Since I got adjustable speed, hydrolic piston, and coolant my bandsaw is extremely versatile with anything I have needed to be cut.

Just this weekend I made some DIY lead casting ingot molds out of 1/4" angle iron (left over from another project), and the blade still cuts like if nothing happened:











and then lots of welding to make it "water tight". Not my best work, but this should work fine for molten lead:












I even gave the side facing the lead a coat of Moly Resin (should stand up to 1000F now that it is cured), to aid in the lead coming off the mold:







I even made a small DIY pot to melt the lead out of a left-over small compressor tank, which I also cut in the bandsaw (of course had to cut, rotate, cut, rotate, etc.):











After all of the alignment by eye, I got pretty darn close at the very end:







ALL of that was with the Lennox 6-10 TPI that Will recommended


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## themayor (Nov 14, 2014)

thanks guys n love the pics Will. I have been messing around making some knives n have read friction cutting is the ticket Will now that you did the new motor n stuff how fast is your saw ?


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## wquiles (Nov 14, 2014)

themayor said:


> Will now that you did the new motor n stuff how fast is your saw ?



Since I know the coolant lubricates and cools, I do run faster speeds and higher pressure than before, but "how much faster?", I don't know, since I am not trying to push it too hard to find out. If/when I do push it really hard (too much down pressure on the cut) the blade will pop out, so there is a sort of "built-in" protection. 

A big benefit of the conversion is how much cooler the "true" 3/4 HP motor runs - I mean dramatically cooler. After cutting all of that angle iron it was just warm, while even lighter cuts would cause the "Chinese 1/3 HP" motor to get so hot after 1/2 hour that it got hot enough to burn your hand (can't keep it in contact with motor). Now I can cut continuously for hours without worry. I am sure I will wear out the bearings in a few places before the motor ever wears out. The blade also stays relatively cool, which of course increases longevity of the cutting edge.

One thing I noted, in regards to the blade: for cutting that "relatively" thin wall tank, that blade of 6-10 TPI is the WRONG one to use. BUT, because of the piston and variable speed, I increased the speed AND lower the pressure on the cut surface, which allowed me to cut the thin wall stuff with no problems - yes, it takes a little longer to cut this way, but nothing over-heats. It was awesome 

Here is a short video. Not cutting at max speed, but not going super slow either. Since I was going to weld the pieces, I set one up to be cut in the bandsaw while I go and clean/grind/bevel - this setup allows me to work in parallel without having to babysit the bandsaw:


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## precisionworks (Nov 14, 2014)

I work with quite a few well equipped shops & (for whatever reason) none use friction cutting. Maybe it's because the blade speeds typically run between 6,000-18,000 sfpm & even the fastest wood cutting band saws run below that speed. 

Could it be done on a wood cutting band saw? Probably, just change out the motor sheave for one that moves the blade at the correct speed. 10,000 sfpm would be a good place to start as there's probably some combination of drive sheave & driven sheave that would yield 10k.

If a blade breaks while running at 10k you may want to move to the next room.


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## themayor (Nov 15, 2014)

thanks for the help guys alot of guys on the knife forum seem to recommend friction cutting for thicker ti. didn't really want to by a new bandsaw to do it tho


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## precisionworks (Nov 15, 2014)

themayor said:


> ... didn't really want to by a new bandsaw to do it tho


If you watch auction listings you may find a well used Grob 36" for not much money. It's a 5000# saw so plan on getting some help moving it into the shop. Nicest feature of the Grob 36, in addition to the mass, is the variable blade speed - up to 15,000 sfpm from the factory so it's a perfect candidate for friction sawing. Motor is 15 hp & 3 ph so you'll need a phase convertor.

A used machinery dealer wanted to sell me his restored G36 & the price was right, under $5k. It was really tempting but that saw eats up a lot of real estate.


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