# hid flashlights



## rodman23t (Sep 3, 2012)

hello all,
can someone please tell me if gregmcgeeengineering has good products or should i look elsewhere for a hid light? i'm just gettin started into this whole flashlight thing so not sure what brands are better than others. any help is greatly appreciated!!


----------



## BVH (Sep 3, 2012)

From the website: "This is the brightest HID flashlight in existance and no one has them except Greg McGee Engineering!"

Right there is enough to cause me to leave the site. All hype. Looks to me like the typical multi-level Ebay lights that have pretty bad reputations. Other will hopefully chime in here who have experience with them.


----------



## rufus001 (Sep 3, 2012)

BVH said:


> Looks to me like the typical multi-level Ebay lights that have pretty bad reputations.


Spot on. You can get them much cheaper on Ebay, And they are pretty ordinary as is.


----------



## rodman23t (Sep 29, 2012)

well i guess i will be going elsewhere for a light. lol

been considering one of the polarion abyss s lights

thanks for your help 


BVH said:


> From the website: "This is the brightest HID flashlight in existance and no one has them except Greg McGee Engineering!"
> 
> Right there is enough to cause me to leave the site. All hype. Looks to me like the typical multi-level Ebay lights that have pretty bad reputations. Other will hopefully chime in here who have experience with them.


----------



## Zephrus (Oct 9, 2012)

The HID on gregmcgeeengineering is in fact identical in every way to the Ebay HIDs. However, there are two versions of them now; the "not so good" and the "good" version. If you like PM me for details.


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Nov 6, 2012)

Zephrus said:


> The HID on gregmcgeeengineering is in fact identical in every way to the Ebay HIDs. However, there are two versions of them now; the "not so good" and the "good" version. If you like PM me for details.



These were made specifically for me at least 3 months before anyone anywhere else had them. That is a fact.

Thanks,
Greg M.


----------



## Norm (Nov 6, 2012)

Zephrus said:


> If you like PM me for details.


There is no reason why you can't share that information here.

Norm


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Jan 2, 2013)

Norm said:


> There is no reason why you can't share that information here.
> 
> Norm



I will have the first smart digital HID lights this week. Again, I will be the first to come out with these, check out my site and see my upcoming youtube video later in the week.

Thanks,
Greg


----------



## BVH (Jan 2, 2013)

Greg, it's still a turn-off for many of us here who are very knowledgeable of and about hand held HID lighting and the products available and then see you say ""This is the brightest HID flashlight in existance and no one has them except Greg McGee Engineering!" on your website. This is not really an accurate statement as it reads. You'd do better to get into very detailed specifics about performance such as "how many actual Lumens out the front", what the true power is at the lamp, not input power and other interesting data that members here enjoy knowing.


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Jan 2, 2013)

BVH said:


> Greg, it's still a turn-off for many of us here who are very knowledgeable of and about hand held HID lighting and the products available and then see you say ""This is the brightest HID flashlight in existance and no one has them except Greg McGee Engineering!" on your website. This is not really an accurate statement as it reads. You'd do better to get into very detailed specifics about performance such as "how many actual Lumens out the front", what the true power is at the lamp, not input power and other interesting data that members here enjoy knowing.


Point taken. I just thought since it was the brightest HID I've ever personally seen and it was an 85w bulb and ballast and I was the first person to come out with them that it was a valid statement. I do, now, have the first HID batteries with digital capacity readouts showing the % of the battery power that is remaining. If someone else has those let me know.

Thanks,
Greg


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Jan 2, 2013)

Also, how would one substantiate a claim of 8500 lumens OTF? You really need an anechoic light chamber like the one at Surefire and I'm pretty sure that all the OTF claims I have ever seen have been from people who take a wild guess measuring the lux over a tiny area, via a photography device which would surely saturate at even 45w bulb/ballast levels. 

Thanks,
Greg


----------



## hahoo (Jan 3, 2013)

gmcgee6367 said:


> Also, how would one substantiate a claim of 8500 lumens OTF? You really need an anechoic light chamber like the one at Surefire and I'm pretty sure that all the OTF claims I have ever seen have been from people who take a wild guess measuring the lux over a tiny area, via a photography device which would surely saturate at even 45w bulb/ballast levels.
> 
> Thanks,
> Greg



umm. millions of other people here that can do lumens and lux....
you been hiding under a rock ?


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Jan 3, 2013)

My WAG is to create some sort of translucent white enclosure around the end of the light unit that captures all of the light, re-reflecting it so that the enclosure is of equal brightness all over, then using a light meter to measure lux in part of this enclosure. After registering several known values, even a home-made integrating sphere would be reasonably accurate, especially when interpolating. I could near-calibrate one of my own up to 1500L interpolated output, although I'd need a few bucks in parts to buy a light meter. I would need a larger one to get higher output interpolated, since I don't trust extrapolations and can only get reasonably-measured light output in 1600L 23W CFLs.


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Jan 3, 2013)

AnAppleSnail said:


> My WAG is to create some sort of translucent white enclosure around the end of the light unit that captures all of the light, re-reflecting it so that the enclosure is of equal brightness all over, then using a light meter to measure lux in part of this enclosure. After registering several known values, even a home-made integrating sphere would be reasonably accurate, especially when interpolating. I could near-calibrate one of my own up to 1500L interpolated output, although I'd need a few bucks in parts to buy a light meter. I would need a larger one to get higher output interpolated, since I don't trust extrapolations and can only get reasonably-measured light output in 1600L 23W CFLs.



Sure millions of other people here can do lumens and lux but where are there numbers coming from? I made a small chamber but I hated it so I trashed it and like I said any light higher than 4500 lumens is going to saturate most of your light meters.

Thanks,
Greg


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Jan 3, 2013)

gmcgee6367 said:


> Sure millions of other people here can do lumens and lux but where are there numbers coming from? I made a small chamber but I hated it so I trashed it and like I said any light higher than 4500 lumens is going to saturate most of your light meters.
> 
> Thanks,
> Greg



Integrating Sphere on www.candlepowerforums.com

Yeah, it's kind of like making your own catch ruler for fishing, but DIY can give reasonably accurate (But not ANSI-lab-certified) results for use of comparison, discussion, and winning internet discussions. Anyone who can do math can usually find a way to step down the input to their light meter for lux or lumen measurements and get reasonably valid numbers. Anyone who can't, shouldn't be DIYing analytical equipment.

For example, I could probably put a styrofoam cup inside a milk jug that is masked except for a small hole, illuminate the cup with a known-to-be 1600 +/-200 lumen light bulb, and take a lux reading in that hole. A light meter reading from twice as far away, getting the same lux value, indicates 4x that output, or 6400 +/-800 lumen. This indicates that the light being tested is probably over 5500 lumen output. Similar values would work for a lux meter if I compare to known-output sources (Say, that same bulb at a given distance). These numbers might be +/-20%, but can then be interpolated or extrapolated, and tested, to be more reliable.

One of our flock found that a DSLR with reasonably-reflective surfaces to be a reasonable light meter. Even though exposure stops aren't exactly precise, they do create a range of possible values for the true value. After all, all measurement secures a range that the true value can be.


----------



## TEEJ (Jan 3, 2013)

Probably a good way to do it then is to simply shoot the beam at a lux meter target say 20 meters away, and take a lux reading at 20 meters, then use that to get lux at other ranges, including back-calculating to lux at 1 meter or cd.

Any number of bounce tests that estimate lumens are also in use, and the use of a larger room than normal is probably all that is needed to get the lux w/in measurable limits if the lumens are that high, etc.






If you sent BVH, myself, Selfbuilt, Patriot, etc, a light, they could do a third party unbiased test for you...and, as they typically compare the light being reviewed to other potentially comparable lights, you could then use those results in your advertising.

As they never charge for the review...and the reviews are well respected, it would be a trusted third party making the claims, and you referring to them, rather than it all coming from you, the gist of the credibility issue in the first place.

If a CPF review says your light is even a GOOD light, let alone brighter than say a helicopter targeting light, PH50, Magic Fire HID du Jour, etc, you will get a GREAT amount of business and cross talk/publicity going.

Food for thought.


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Jan 3, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> Probably a good way to do it then is to simply shoot the beam at a lux meter target say 20 meters away, and take a lux reading at 20 meters, then use that to get lux at other ranges, including back-calculating to lux at 1 meter or cd.
> 
> Any number of bounce tests that estimate lumens are also in use, and the use of a larger room than normal is probably all that is needed to get the lux w/in measurable limits if the lumens are that high, etc.
> 
> ...



Last time I sent someone a light for an independent review he tried to hussle me to send him a non-anti-roll (rolling?) switch and pay the shipping as well. Then he questioned my reputability because I didn't want to send him a switch and pay the shipping after sending him a free light and batteries for eval... Not a good experience.

I just wanted a sanity check to make sure there wasn't an 11 dollar solution to make a lumen meter... The only issue with using a lux meter then using the reading to integrate over the entire area of the light to come up with a lumen value is that the HIDs typically spill an insane amount of light in addition to having the intense spot so it would be hard to come up with two dimensional integral that has a valid lux reading across the entire area without taking hundreds of spot measurements. I would then have to break out my old calc book...probably not, I still remember most of that stuff. 

I will ponder the idea of getting a reviewer a little more. I do now have the digital displays on my 85w HID batteries that are cutting edge so it might be cool.

Thanks,
Greg


----------



## TEEJ (Jan 3, 2013)

gmcgee6367 said:


> Last time I sent someone a light for an independent review he tried to hussle me to send him a non-anti-roll (rolling?) switch and pay the shipping as well. Then he questioned my reputability because I didn't want to send him a switch and pay the shipping after sending him a free light and batteries for eval... Not a good experience.
> 
> I just wanted a sanity check to make sure there wasn't an 11 dollar solution to make a lumen meter... The only issue with using a lux meter then using the reading to integrate over the entire area of the light to come up with a lumen value is that the HIDs typically spill an insane amount of light in addition to having the intense spot so it would be hard to come up with two dimensional integral that has a valid lux reading across the entire area without taking hundreds of spot measurements. I would then have to break out my old calc book...probably not, I still remember most of that stuff.
> 
> ...



The reviewers here, that I mentioned, don't play games, and are 100% trust worthy....no one of them would try to "roll you".



Read some reviews on the site of other lights...see what you think. I think you'll see that they are the real deal, and would be very fair.

With a new light with a unique feature set and unbelievable power, well, its free advertising, and, can help make the unbelievable power, well, believable.

Even if your light is only pumping out ~5k lumens, with the other things going for it, it would STILL be well received...and a hot commodity...given the competition, etc.

Either way, you are advertising based upon your own faith, lets call that good faith...but, you don't really KNOW. If new numbers are provided, at least you can adjust your ad to say its really 10k or 7k or whatever it is...and maybe have some cool beam shots to boot, etc.

Its not normal for a seller to do their OWN review of a product, as they are not exactly "unbiased". Its normal to send the product out for testing...and get an unbiased report/rating. 

As you can essentially get the review if you provide the light and whatever is needed to make it work (A way to charge it, etc...)...other than one light, its pretty cheap as far as advertising costs go.


----------



## BVH (Jan 3, 2013)

My reviews are pretty much informal and are actual field beam shot comparisons with other known lights to form a frame of reference for the thread viewer against which a new light can be judged. I'm more into actual field performance than the raw numbers. But it's true, the only real way to know the total real Lumens output is to use a properly calibrated Integrating Sphere. But with flashlights as we all know, many of those Lumens are lost getting out the front. So while it's a good starting point, it does not tell the entire story. I guess that's why I like to do comparison shots.

If you were to send a light to a reviewer here, I would recommend it be sent as a loaner to obtain the review data and then be sent back to you. There are some great reviewers here on CPF that really get into the numbers. I believe "Selfbuilt" does a great job but I don't know if he does HID's?


----------



## Lips (Jan 3, 2013)

*
I believe these are already available.


Same Light?*

























*USB and LED*
















.


----------



## TEEJ (Jan 4, 2013)

BVH and Patriot probably have the most HID expertise and HID's to compare to.

I'd try to arrange with them as Plan A at least.


----------



## Lips (Jan 4, 2013)

gmcgee6367 said:


> Mine are actually a little different now that I take a look, just generically like a little bigger battery capacity and better tailcap. Send me the name of the independent reviewer and I'll go for it. Now that I think of it the person who "rolled" me may have been on budgetlight forums... I just boycotted the forums for a while after that experience and my day job, managing the people who make space telescopes, got really busy and I was traveling a lot so I just hired some people to ship the lights and test under my supervision and stopped participating in any forum stuff. I got back on after reading someone stating that 365nm UV won't sterilize. I posted a link to some university study to the contrary and started hopping around to the posts...
> 
> Thanks,
> Greg





How did you get rolled? (They kept light without agreement?) 


Just curious how were you the *first* to have this type of light. Not saying you weren't as that would have been quite an accomplishment considering this has to be the most prolific - mass produced hand-held HID light in the world. I mean it's like the name should be COCKROACHES HID SEARCHLIGHT, they just keep multiplying... A number of factories are making different versions of this light in huge quantities... You mean first in the USA to have the light or you OEM the original light to begin with? 


I hate to tell though it's worse on the proliferation front, I think they copied allot of your lights


----------



## TEEJ (Jan 4, 2013)

That does happen though...look at any of the newer designs, within a few weeks, clones appear.



And, of course, you could be the first one to order/sell a new version...and maybe you got the Alibaba Cherry and made some modifications to your specs and started selling the version you spec'd, etc...but the clones look just like yours, and each other, etc.

I figure its possible at least, but, the jury is out until an actual unbiased third party review sets a baseline.


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Jan 5, 2013)

I was definately the first to have the 85w . The reason is a "friend" of mine tried copying my business model with the HIDs and went to Shenzen and ordered like 500 of the 75w lights from some generic supplier, not a proven supplier. I got on the phone with my designer and yelled at him telling him we needed a 100w HID, he has always been solid with lights that stand up to anything so I was confident he would come up with something brighter. He pushed it and about two weeks later came out with the 85w, probably since 85w is the highest legal light for cars in many areas or so I have heard. Anyway the idiot ended up with 500 unsold 75w HIDs because as soon as there was an 85w people just shunned the 75w.

I always have lots of spare bulbs, ballasts, batteries, straps, etc. so if anyone ever has a problem they can count on a free fast warranty part. Everything I ship is shipped from Denver immediately after purchase. I had one guy call me because he bought an HID from someone else and his battery died so he wanted to know if my battery would fit, told him to send me a pic and dimensions and he never did. He probably just bought a whole new light. Strangely enough some of the batteries don't have the same pinouts or dimensions so it is hard to drop a battery from supplier x into supplier y's light. I had another guy about a year ago send me his old HID and both batteries because they died and he couldn't find replacements, I gave him a discount on a new one. Took the light and put it in my basement since my batteries would not fit. Was going to give it to my brother and since I told him in advance I just sent him a new light. 

Thanks,
Greg


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Jan 5, 2013)

I didn't know you get the light back from a reviewer? I thought that was the cost of the review.

No, I refused to send them a second switch (different model than the one that came with the light), and they posted a bad comment that I didn't keep my word since I had early posts that if a customer wants a non-protruding switch when they purchase a light that I would include one. Since he never "purchased" the light and received the stock switch with the review light I didn't feel the need to send him a free switch and pay the postage when he already had one. I even told him I would send him a free switch if he paid the flat rate postage and he didn't do it, just left a bad comment.

Thanks,
Greg


----------



## BVH (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't know if there is any "standard practice" here on CPF about keeping or not keeping the lights. It's my thought that to keep the review absolutely independent, it's best to not have any compensation involved. But others may have differing opinions. I'd send a Private Message to member Selfbuilt to see if he's do a review.


----------



## CouldUseALight (Jan 7, 2013)

There *should be* a clear practice for reviews/reviewers on here. :thinking:

Not the place to suggest specifics here; but CPF should definitely discuss this. :tinfoil:

CPF reviews are the best on the Web, and they'd appear much more professional if we had consistency or documentation on review practices! :twothumbs


----------



## AnAppleSnail (Jan 7, 2013)

CouldUseALight said:


> There *should be* a clear practice for reviews/reviewers on here. :thinking:
> 
> Not the place to suggest specifics here; but CPF should definitely discuss this. :tinfoil:
> 
> CPF reviews are the best on the Web, and they'd appear much more professional if we had consistency or documentation on review practices! :twothumbs



Tough to do with our quality hobbyists. The American Red Cross recently handled inconsistent volunteer instructor practices by essentially removing volunteer instructors. I believe our top reviewers disclose the source of their lights as required by CPF.


----------



## CouldUseALight (Jan 7, 2013)

Definitely agree that we wouldn't want CPF policies to scare off/restrict reviewers...:fail:

The reviewers could do it in cooperation with CPF; maybe a "Reviewer Policies" sticky where individuals could post their chosen practices? Practices could vary by reviewer but there would a central place for vendors and users to check. oo:

Knowing exactly what to expect from a review/er might help vendor participation. :twothumbs


----------



## BVH (Jan 7, 2013)

Just be careful to not over-regulate/complicate reviews out of existence. It's working well now and I'd guess the vast majority of members are happy with the processes.


----------



## one2tim (Jan 8, 2013)

Its not my mening to offend the OP but if I search google for 85w hid I see the same flashlight scattered all over Chinese websites eBay and so but just for less then half the price. Really confused but to me it looks like you are just importing cheap Chinese products and reselling them with profit from USA. Where lies the engineering part? Please enlighten me if I got it all wrong.


----------



## TEEJ (Jan 8, 2013)

Lots of lights LOOK the same....you can't tell what's inside from a web pic...especially when they're all screaming that they have the best/most,cheapest, etc.



As far as the reviewers keeping the lights...I think they SHOULD keep the lights.

It gives opportunities for long term feed back, and comparison to OTHER lights.


One of the best things in a lot of reviews is shots next to other lights.

So,, you see the relative sizes of the lights themselves next to other lights, and, you see the beam shots side by side of the same target on the same night, etc....


If Reviewers had to return the lights, they would not have lights to compare with....or at least not as many.


This goes especially for bench setter lights, ones that set the bar in comparisons. Since the reviewers are NOT paid for the reviews, and, here at least, they are just fellow flashaholics trying to share their experiences...and given the amount of work that goes into DOING a review, and how often the reviewer will then use a prior review light in a subsequent review..and the fact that they simply cannot afford to buy lights just to review them...keeping the lights just makes sense, to me at least.


So...if that works for everyone, and, frankly, I thought they were keeping the lights all along anyway...I say continue to keep the lights.

If on a case by case basis a maker wants the light back....sure, they can work that out with the reviewer when arranging to get a review.


----------



## FRITZHID (Jan 8, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> Lots of lights LOOK the same....you can't tell what's inside from a web pic...especially when they're all screaming that they have the best/most,cheapest, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hence why I gave my Handsun to BVH. long term use/review.


----------



## gmcgee6367 (Feb 7, 2013)

FRITZHID said:


> Hence why I gave my Handsun to BVH. long term use/review.



I'm probably on board with reviewers keeping the lights too, as long as the review good or bad has a lot of beamshots and pics and it is apparent that they put some time into it.

I do think the reviewers should be vetted by CPF as a SME (subject matter expert).

Thanks,
Greg


----------



## TEEJ (Feb 7, 2013)

gmcgee6367 said:


> I'm probably on board with reviewers keeping the lights too, as long as the review good or bad has a lot of beamshots and pics and it is apparent that they put some time into it.
> 
> I do think the reviewers should be vetted by CPF as a SME (subject matter expert).
> 
> ...



The ones mentioned are about as vetted as you can get at least.

I think you should make the arrangements for a review and start the process.


----------



## lightliker (Mar 17, 2013)

So, WILL there be a nice review of this 85W HID or NOT? 
After getting me a SR-90 about a year ago I sawthe shear output and power of the HID flashlights (one of them reviewed by Patriot) making them maybe my next flashlight.
Untill this review is written here, I will be attracted more to the Ebay versions, although the PH50 is still attracting me


----------



## TEEJ (Mar 17, 2013)

lightliker said:


> So, WILL there be a nice review of this 85W HID or NOT?
> After getting me a SR-90 about a year ago I sawthe shear output and power of the HID flashlights (one of them reviewed by Patriot) making them maybe my next flashlight.
> Untill this review is written here, I will be attracted more to the Ebay versions, although the PH50 is still attracting me



The main progress in LEDs towards competition with at least the lower end HID's is in throw....and run time/form factor.

The DEFT-X is rated at ~ 900,000 cd right now....over a 1 mile range to to ANSI throw. The TN31mb is rated ~ 400,000 cd, and so forth. (Both are custom LED lights)

That SR90 is rated closer to 112k cd or so, making it a great thrower, but, long in the tooth as far as state of the art. (The newer SR95 UT about doubles the cd of the prior SR90 for example)

Where LEDs need work is in combining the total lumen out put, so as to be able to flood a wide area, with being able to throw that wide area a longer distance. So far, the HID's are able to combine those parameters more easily.

Where the LED shines (heh heh) is in the form factor and run time, where it tends to trounce the HID.


----------



## BVH (Mar 17, 2013)

lightliker said:


> So, WILL there be a nice review of this 85W HID or NOT?
> After getting me a SR-90 about a year ago I sawthe shear output and power of the HID flashlights (one of them reviewed by Patriot) making them maybe my next flashlight.
> Untill this review is written here, I will be attracted more to the Ebay versions, although the PH50 is still attracting me



If not already on the list, you might want to look into the Fire Foxes 4 coming out soon. Quality will be far superior to the typical Ebay HID's and in a small package.

//flashlight-forums.com/index.php?topic=13795.0


----------



## n2stuff (Mar 18, 2013)

How is yours different from this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Silve...540&pid=100005&prg=1088&rk=1&sd=320931232546&


----------



## kcsr.org (Mar 22, 2013)

n2stuff said:


> How is yours different from this one?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Silve...540&pid=100005&prg=1088&rk=1&sd=320931232546&



I'm definitely not an expert, but looks like the exact same light (for less than half the price). Mr McGee, can you provide any insight?


----------

