# Voltcraft Li-Ion Battery Holder - Newbie Modding Guide



## LuxLuthor (Apr 11, 2007)

This other thread where we are discussing finding a safe way to charge multiple Li-Ion batteries is getting pretty long. This topic is to give a NEWBIE's pictoral guide to modding the Voltcraft cradle in the hopes that we can get more of them from a group buy. 

When combined with a safe 4-channel parallel charger like the DN/Tenergy which comes with an AC, 5A power supply in a package deal like this, it gives a great way to safely charge Li-Ion cells without the fire/explosion risk that is associated with universal $20 chargers that do not detect unbalanced high voltage cells that develop in a battery pack.

The only other safe alternative is the 1 or 2 cell Pila or Ultrafire chargers that "balance" cells by individually charging them all up to the same 4.2V...but these have very low 0.6A per cell charge rates....so it takes a long time.

After an exhaustive search, we realized that noone has ever made a universal cradle to hold Li-Ion rechargeable cells, and while it would be relatively easy to manufacture (and at least one RC dealer is considering having them made), the only stop-gap measure is to use a simple DN/Tenergy 4 slot charger (or Cellpro 4S) with a German made Voltcraft universal 4 slot cradle for NiMH/NiCd cells.

Because Li-Ions are different sizes, this Voltcraft cradle must be modded. It can be done VERY easily if only used with this DN/Tenergy maximum 2A per slot output charger, and labeled pictures in this post make it clear how to do that. After the last picture, just reattach the spring, solder back the black wire and reassemble.



 

 

 



 

 

 




 

 




*-------------------------------------------------------------------*

*The next post *assumes you wish to upgrade the 22gauge existing wiring for higher Amp charging, and to also use separate balancing taps for a more robust charging method. This chart shows the limitation of various wire gauges as it relates to charging Amps applied for a given voltage. With the output limit of 2A per cell (or 6A for all 4 cell slots combined) from the DN/Tenergy charger, the 22gauge wiring is still safe. In this lower current Tenergy scenario, you actually charge through the "balancing tap" connections to each cell, via 5 banana jacks as shown below. 







The advanced chargers normally deliver their higher power current to the single POS/NEG battery pack terminals ONLY, and do optional per cell balancing with the low current smaller "Tap Lead" wires.

With more advanced chargers such as the Schultze, Triton2, or Hyperion 1210i, etc. you can charge at higher rates, and daisy chain the 4 slot cradles to allow 4, 8, or 12 safe Li-Ion cell charging in series with taps to balance the voltages. These more advanced chargers require larger wire to safely transfer higher Amp current flow, and also need larger 12Volt power supplies than the Tenergy setup.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 11, 2007)

In order to upgrade the wiring, these steps must be taken. I found 14AWG perhaps a bit thicker than necessary, but I would use at least 16AWG if you are going to do this step.


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## petrev (Apr 11, 2007)

Hi Lux

Brilliant pics of your major overhaul :goodjob: 

I tried to fit 20AWG and it fits physically, but mine wasn't the Super-Flex kind, so movement was a bit restricted - must try and find some nice flexy-silicone wire over here. 

I have done some more mods to my Voltcraft in order to fit LIR123A type cells - as we discussed, simply Dremeling a bigger lower receptacle would work but leave holes ! ! ! (might be preferable to/quicker than this solution ?) Anyway, I thought I'd give this other method a go anyway.

Take 1 AW brass half 123A size spacer (as supplied by AW for fitting 17500 cells in a DSD charger) and heat (a lot) using a heat-gun(electric paint stripper) - use pliers or a Leatherman type device to hold it in the heat.





Then keep pressing (and reheating) into cradle's lowest space - head and tail ends. I pressed straight down at the head end, but used an initial 45degree press for the tail end and then downwards to finish. This method helps to avoid forming holes at certain thin points but is not foolproof - I had to repair a couple of holes by melting surplus plastic back in.

This leaves a space about 123A size but needs lots of Dremel work to tidy up the melted plastic that forms on the margins and enlarge to full size for a cozy fit.





I cut a groove in the back wall of my cradle so that you don't have to take down the back of the slider-contact - but that's a personal choice as either method works the same.

I have soldered all the Dremeled faces of the slider to prevent possible rusting. 

Had to add an extra bit of height to the bottom contact so that it reaches the +Pip of the LIR123s - used some wire and solder. *X* marks the spot . . .





Sorry there are no pics of the melting and Dremeling stages but I misplaced my CF-Card and I have had to borrow a friends for these shots . . .

Cheers Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 11, 2007)

LOL! What all this tells me is how much we really need a professional manufacturing of a universal Li-Ion charging cradle!!!


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## LiteFan (Apr 11, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL! What all this tells me is how much we really need a professional manufacturing of a universal Li-Ion charging cradle!!!


 
agreed


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## Nebula (Apr 11, 2007)

Lux and Pete - Very nice work indeed. I like the pictorial. Now if I can just manage to find a spare Voltcraft. 

Again, thank you both for your contributions to this project. 

Kirk


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## Daekar (Apr 12, 2007)

I think the question that every newbie has that I know is burning in MY mind is:
"Once I do all this (intimidating) modding, what size batteries will I be able to charge?"
I know that personally, I would want to know yes or no for the protected ones that AW sells on the boards:

- Protected "C" <----- this in particular!
- Protected 18650 ( 2200mAH )
- Protected 18500 ( 1500mAH )
- Protected 17670 ( 1600mAH )
- Protected 17500 ( 1100mAH ) 
- Protected 14670 ( 1100mAH )
- Protected 14500 ( 750 mAH ) 
- Protected R123A ( 750 mAH )
- Protected RCR2 ( 350mAH ) ------- $ 7.50 each

For You Newbies Reading this Thread, here's some more info shamelessly ripped from someone wiser than I:


> Size Reference :
> 
> 18650 = 168A / 600P
> 17670 = 168S / 600S
> ...



I think many people's decision on whether or not to participate in a group buy will hinge on how versatile the end produce will be. I know I'm in for at least 2 or 3 cradles (I'll be daisy-chaining!) if they'll do "C", 18650, 18500, 17650, 17500, and 14500 (with or without spacers required). 

Well, oh gurus of battery wisdom... I'm waiting for you to justify buying... and decisions on whether or not to purchase a 500+ lumen milkspit mod are riding on your answers... heh heh 

EDIT: Also... I have a feeling there are those who would rather just buy one. If there are a few enterprising souls on here who would like to increase the flashaholism rate throughout the world, this might be a good way to do it...


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## petrev (Apr 12, 2007)

Daekar said:


> I think the question that every newbie has that I know is burning in MY mind is:
> "Once I do all this (intimidating) modding, what size batteries will I be able to charge?"
> I know that personally, I would want to know yes or no for the protected ones that AW sells on the boards:



Charging <= 3A - No Rewiring
Charging > 3A Re-Wire with bigger internal cable.

- Protected "C" 26540 (3300mAh). . . . . . No MOD Required
- Protected 18650 ( 2200mAH ) . . . . . . .Moving Spring Post MOD
- Protected 18500 ( 1500mAH ). . . . . . . .No MOD Required
- Protected 17670 ( 1600mAH ) . . . . . . .Moving Spring Post MOD
- Protected 17500 ( 1100mAH ). . . . . . . .No MOD Required 
- Protected 14670 ( 1100mAH ) . . . . . . .Moving Spring Post MOD
- Protected 14500 ( 750 mAH ). . . . . . . .No MOD Required 
- Protected R123A ( 750 mAH ) . . . . . . .Brass Spacer or Major Tray MOD
17350?
- Protected RCR2 ( 350mAH ) . . . . . . . . . BIG - Brass Spacer or Major Tray MOD
16270?

For small cells like RCR123A and RCR2 it should relatively easy to make a holder to charge 3-in-parallel in a bay for upto 12 at a time (a bit like the FM 3p17500 holders that Lux has)







> For You Newbies Reading this Thread, here's some more info shamelessly ripped from someone wiser than I:
> 
> 
> > Size Reference :
> ...


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 13, 2007)

The simple answer to your question....*it will allow all known Li-Ion cells to fit and be balance charged safely*. 

Certainly all the ones you mentioned, and that AW sells.

The actual plastic tray is 73mm long, and the back contact arm ("Moving Spring Post") is 3 mm in my narrowest part, but can be shortened a bit more. 

The 2nd set of two digits in AW's battery types are the length in mm's, and the "67" models (i.e. *17670* ) fit mine just fine. I think you could go as long as 70-72mm long batteries if you recessed the contact arm by carving a bit of the plastic on back end so it slides back more.


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## petrev (Apr 13, 2007)

Ah - You mean 


The Self Adjusting Reciprocating Back Spring Loaded Moving Negative Contact Arm Slider Post Assembly

Thing !


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 13, 2007)

Three of them can also form the heart of the flux capacitor.


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## 65535 (Apr 13, 2007)

IMHO the tenergy is the best charger to mate with the voltcraft charger. Either that or a CC/CV powersupply which would require one to modify the battery carrier to be wired in parallel, which also IMHO is the best way.


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## petrev (Apr 18, 2007)

Parallel Charging or Balanced Charging or a Parallel Charger

Newish Thread

*Day to Day - DN/Tenergy4P, FMA-Cellpro/HD6S and Voltcraft Balanced Sys. Charging*


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## petrev (Apr 26, 2007)

New Master Spring-Post





This version can be copied using a key cutting machine (? at any hardware store ?) as only the front face is re-shaped.

Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 26, 2007)

I had to make mine even slimmer that you are showing to get the 67mm batteries to fit (like the 14670 cells) as shown in this close up.



 _Click Pix_


Also, here are the images of the final connectors I put on the 5 wire harness coming out the side. I got these color coded Sermos connectors (look towards bottom of page here) to go with the wire colors I used so there is no question which battery slot I am using. These Sermos have side slot & groove on 4 sides so you can join them into a configuration like I did here. 

The extra two connectors not used in these images are for adding a second cradle in series, and bringing over those other two tap wire connectors since my Hyperion 6S balancer lets me add two more...or I can buy a 2nd Hyperion and network them to charge 12S in series, but I don't think I'm really gonna need that potential, so am settling on 2 cradles and 6S.

These adaptors then let me build cable going to Hyperion balancer, or to the Tenergy/DN charger by swapping the cable I made.



 

 



Oh, Petrev, instead of trying to melt out the bottom to get those other cells to fit, I just put this foam in the slot to raise the batteries to use the other contacts. I would probably use some of the DSD blank spacer slugs if I had any 123R's to charge.


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## petrev (Apr 26, 2007)

Hi Lux

Loving the new wiring arrangement - Great solution for 6S-Balancer system.

Agreed - way too much work melting stuff just for LIR123s - so use a DSD type Brass Spacer as stated before. All my other cells fit without a foam piece though !

And my New Master Spring-Post



 . . . 



Fits AW-17670 protected cells (67.54mm) top cell
and AW-18650 protected cells (66.40mm) lower cell

Might just look wider than it is !! !!!

Only the edge marked in Red is altered so that it can be replicated using a key-cutting machine.





If these dimensions fail to fit any particular cell owned then file down as appropriate.

Cheers Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 26, 2007)

I also realize now that I really don't need to replace the inside wiring with thicker than 18AWG because that Hyperion 6S balancer has 20AWG for output POS/NEG leads to the battery pack/cradle, and a stated charging limit of 10A, which I'm never going to be going beyond its capability.

Good to see that information on the Back Spring Terminal Post. They grind down very easily with the Dremel cutting disc, so that works too.

I'm beginning to think the best thing might be to see if Tronic can ship a bunch of these cradles. He charged me $85 delivered for 3 of them. I'm just not seeing most people wanting to go through the modding, or dealing with shipping from Europe.

I'm not getting any warm feelings from the US companies I tried to get interested in making a professional version for Li-Ion charging. They are all going South on the fire/explosion liability risk of charging Li-Ions.


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## petrev (Apr 26, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> I also realize now that I really don't need to replace the inside wiring with thicker than 18AWG because that Hyperion 6S balancer has 20AWG for output POS/NEG leads to the battery pack/cradle, and a stated charging limit of 10A, which I'm never going to be going beyond its capability.
> 
> Good to see that information on the Back Spring Terminal Post. They grind down very easily with the Dremel cutting disc, so that works too.
> 
> ...



Hi Lux 

Might even be able to get away with 2.4mm O/D silicon covered ? I had a quote for some rated at 12A



> 0.75mm2 ( 384/0.05mm ) Copper conductor, Silicone insulated 0.6mm nominal radial thickness
> Overall diameter 2.4mm
> Current Rating :- @ 30 Deg C up to 145 Deg C = 12 Amps



but the cost was £2.88 /m min order 100m ! ! ! too much for me.

My idea with the Back Spring-Post was Dremel 1 - KeyCopy 3 + +

$85 for 3 is cheaper than I can get them.

They aren't for LiIon cells at all - they are for 2/3A to Fat7/5A *NiMh* plus C and D . . .

Cheers Pete


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## MikeF (Apr 26, 2007)

Here is some 12ga silicone extra flexible, and limp noodle 12ga

http://www.wsdeans.com/products/wire/index.html


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 26, 2007)

Yeah, I have some of the "Dean's Wet Noodle" 12AWG...beautiful stuff... but like I say....it is overkill since the output of the Hyperion balancer has 20AWG. Putting 16 or lower guage is not going to matter since they only allow 10A max output to the battery cradle.


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## petrev (May 11, 2007)

Hi All

Modded a couple of cradles for Cue and the key cutting method worked great.

8 posts cut quick-smart.






If anyone wants a Key sent them they cost me £3 each (plus postage and PPfees)

Fitted double German Muldental Elektronik 55013 SilikonLitze ultra flexible (extrem geschmeidig) 0.5 sqmm for a rated max of 14A - should be good for 10A at least (series charging NiMh ?) and allows the springs to still work nicely.



 . . . 



No Colour coding internally ? ? ? 

RGBY-K (4321-0) for the Banana-Loom ! ! ! 

Yellow tape on Bananas just for transit . . . (Thanks Lux - see below)

Cheers Pete


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## LuxLuthor (May 11, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi All
> 
> Modded a couple of cradles for Cue and the key cutting method worked great.
> 
> ...



I'm trying to figure out how you are using that Banana-Loom. I guess you are separating the plastic connectors to use in the individual holes, and putting the other end into the green universal wire adapter on the Tenergy/DN charger?


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## petrev (May 11, 2007)

Absolutely Lux,

The yellow tape on the bananas is just for transit . . .

Cheers Pete


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## cue003 (May 18, 2007)

They arrived safely today. Huge thanks Pete.

Curtis


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## DeLighted (Jun 8, 2007)

I have been trying to find a battery holder to charge AW's C Li-ions and other Li-ion batteries. The Voltcraft cradle is the key. Is there a source for these yet? I would like at least three.

Thanks,
Kent


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## petrev (Jun 10, 2007)

DeLighted said:


> I have been trying to find a battery holder to charge AW's C Li-ions and other Li-ion batteries. The Voltcraft cradle is the key. Is there a source for these yet? I would like at least three.
> 
> Thanks,
> Kent


 
Hi Kent
As you know, but in case others have missed it, Tronic has posted this great offer



Tronic said:


> I can offer the following:
> 
> Voltcraft Cradle $19/piece
> 
> ...


 
Good news for all . . .

Pete

ps. This is how my latest "KEY" alligns to the Spring Posts for cutting if you happen to have one !



 .


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## barkingmad (Jun 21, 2007)

Is anyone selling these pre-modded? :naughty:


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 22, 2007)

Where do you live?


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## barkingmad (Jun 22, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Where do you live?


 
United Kingdom.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 22, 2007)

Best to ask Petrev or Tronic. Too crazy to ship here, then back just for mod.


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## Nebula (Jun 24, 2007)

petrev said:


> Hi Kent
> As you know, but in case others have missed it, Tronic has posted this great offer
> 
> 
> ...


 

Pete, I ordered a few Voltcraft holders from Daniel and would like to try your KEY. If you have any left to sell please PM with the price, shipping to Virginia, and your paypal addy. Thanks. Kirk


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## petrev (Jun 26, 2007)

Nebula said:


> Pete, I ordered a few Voltcraft holders from Daniel and would like to try your KEY. If you have any left to sell please PM with the price, shipping to Virginia, and your paypal addy. Thanks. Kirk


 

Hi Kirk

Posted key 11:00 GMT(UTC)

Thanks for the extra $$ for shoe leather.

Let me know when it arrives if poss.
Align as above - any questions just ask . . .

Cheers Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 26, 2007)

LOL....do a google on "bumping locks" which that key now looks like. It was frighteningly easy enough to have me change all my important locks to the more expensive Patriot Medeco deadbolts.


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## petrev (Jun 26, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL....do a google on "bumping locks" which that key now looks like. It was frighteningly easy enough to have me change all my important locks to the more expensive Patriot Medeco deadbolts.



Well you laugh and learn !


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## Aircraft800 (Sep 22, 2007)

Whoa... I didn't want this thread to get lost, I need one of these Voltcraft adapters~

Nice work guys!


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## cue003 (Sep 22, 2007)

Pete updated 2 of these cradles and I have only been using one. They have worked perfectly and I love the way they came out. I still have one cradle in the box, never used. If someone is interested in one of these that have been updated (see post #21 in this thread), please shoot me a PM. Keep in mind that with the upgrades of wiring, key cutting, the shipping etc to receive these and the cost of the cradle itself, it is not "cheap". 

Just trying to help. 

Curtis


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## Nebula (Sep 22, 2007)

Curtis - PM sent. Kirk 



cue003 said:


> Pete updated 2 of these cradles and I have only been using one. They have worked perfectly and I love the way they came out. I still have one cradle in the box, never used. If someone is interested in one of these that have been updated (see post #21 in this thread), please shoot me a PM. Keep in mind that with the upgrades of wiring, key cutting, the shipping etc to receive these and the cost of the cradle itself, it is not "cheap".
> 
> Just trying to help.
> 
> Curtis


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## Anders (Feb 6, 2008)

Hello.

First of all I want to thank LuxLuthor and Petrev for this very useful information.

I just got my Conrad battery holder.

Is it any disadvantages to use Laboratory plug with side cable inlet and use the upper side to attach the balance wires when charging Li-Ion cells.

Like this picture:







Anders


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## Aircraft800 (Feb 6, 2008)

You can use those Piggy-Back connectors, it won't hurt anything. Your wiring looks right.


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## Anders (Feb 6, 2008)

Thankyou Aircraft800 for your answer.

The reason is that my soldering skills isn't good and it look like it is lack of space for me to solder many leads, I just have to change the small leads to bigger ones inside the holder with this solution.


Anders


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## Aircraft800 (Feb 6, 2008)

Anders said:


> Thankyou Aircraft800 for your answer.
> 
> The reason is that my soldering skills isn't good and it look like it is lack of space for me to solder many leads, I just have to change the small leads to bigger ones inside the holder with this solution.
> 
> ...


 
The only drawback I can see is you probably can't do any 5A charges, but it's not really no big deal if you have the time. Do you plan on charging any XX650 cells? You will have to disassemble it to shorten the keys a little anyway, you might as well upgrade the internal wiring with some heavy silicone wire if you have to go that far. It's not that hard, just a little intimidating if you've never done any soldering.

(It's a lot like the mod I did, but my balance wires are internal.)


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## Anders (Feb 6, 2008)

Hello Aircraft800:wave:

Yes my plan is to upgrade the internal wiring with heavier wires, maybe I also shorten the keys. I only have one light for 18650 and I use my clamp for this size now.





Anders


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 7, 2008)

Your setup looks like it will work fine. Remember your BC-6 (a great charger for the price) I believe only charges with up to 5A of current, and even 20 or 22 AWG wire that is 1 to 2 feet is going to carry that without a significant voltage drop. Your balance harness wire can be even smaller (24 AWG), since it just bleeds off excess voltage.

:thumbsup:


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## Action (Feb 26, 2008)

Is anyone building these to work with a Schulze?


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 26, 2008)

They work with any charger. You just need to setup an adapter to the balancer port plug.


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## Edwood (Apr 15, 2008)

petrev, are you still offering cut keys for cutting the Spring posts?

Or anyone in the USA have one they could copy for me, or part with?


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## petrev (Apr 15, 2008)

Edwood said:


> petrev, are you still offering cut keys for cutting the Spring posts?
> 
> Or anyone in the USA have one they could copy for me, or part with?


 
Hi Ed,

Funny - Just got a PM asking same question from Vleong1 in Canada ! So I'll cut two and post them out . . .

PM me your address (Vleong1 PM too please)

Cheers
Pete


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## Edwood (Apr 15, 2008)

petrev said:


> Hi Ed,
> 
> Funny - Just got a PM asking same question from Vleong1 in Canada ! So I'll cut two and post them out . . .
> 
> ...



YGPM.


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## Norm (Apr 15, 2008)

I really wish the Voltcraft battery holder was available here in Australia.
I did make some enquires about getting them from Germany but the postage was the killer.
Norm


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## Edwood (Apr 15, 2008)

Surely there is a machinist or someone that works with one where we can design and implement a better one?

Perhaps made from aluminum that would dissipate heat and hard anodized for electrical insulation.

Perhaps with a latching lid to contain any flame venting just in case?

I'm sure there would be enough people here interested in a Group Buy.

I'm in for one if we can keep the costs under $200.

-Ed


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## Tronic (Apr 15, 2008)

Norm said:


> I really wish the Voltcraft battery holder was available here in Australia.
> I did make some enquires about getting them from Germany but the postage was the killer.
> Norm


PM sent.


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## petrev (Apr 15, 2008)

Tronic said:


> PM sent.


 
Hi Tronic

Sudden flurry of activity !

Hope all well with you :wave:

Cheers
Pete


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## petrev (Apr 16, 2008)

Hi

*Norm* - Key Posted

*Vleong1* - Key Posted

Cheers
Pete


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## Tronic (Apr 16, 2008)

Hi Pete

I am still here and I am well! :wave:
I hope you are well too!

At the moment (and the past few months) I am very busy with a lot of things and I don't had the time to be active on CPF.
But I try to visit the forum every second day to be (more or less) "up to date".

I hope things will change that I have more time to participate in the forum.

-Daniel



petrev said:


> Hi Tronic
> 
> Sudden flurry of activity !
> 
> ...


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## Norm (Apr 16, 2008)

petrev said:


> Hi
> 
> *Norm* - Key Posted
> 
> ...


Thanks Pete, I just wonder how strangley the local locksmith will look at me when I wander in with these to get them cut. :duh2:
Norm


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## Norm (May 9, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> Best to ask Petrev or Tronic. Too crazy to ship here, then back just for mod.


With the help of both of the above members I managed to get my hands on the Voltcraft battery holder and Petrev's magic key, what follows is the result of all the tips from this thread.








​ 
I used a D9 style connector and an old mouse lead for my balance taps and purchase a suitable tap plug for my charger from a hobby store on the net.



Norm said:


> Thanks Pete, I just wonder how strangely the local locksmith will look at me when I wander in with these to get them cut. :duh2:
> Norm



The Locksmith cut the battery posts for free, he said he didn't know what to charge me as I hadn't bought any keys .

Norm


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## petrev (May 10, 2008)

Norm said:


> With the help of both of the above members I managed to get my hands on the Voltcraft battery holder and Petrev's magic key, what follows is the result of all the tips from this thread.
> 
> I used a D9 style connector and an old mouse lead for my balance taps and purchase a suitable tap plug for my charger from a hobby store on the net.
> 
> ...


 
Hi Norm,

Nice idea with the 9pin D-Type. :thumbsup:

Sweet mod.

Very nice Locksmith you have there - my local hardware store charges the same as a Yale type key, saying most cost is wear and tear of cutting wheel. On the plus side however, he did reverse cut the original Master Key from one of my hand modified posts to get the ball rolling . . .

*Vleong1* is having trouble with his local key-cutter who has said her machine won't do it ! They are all different . . .

Cheers
Pete


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## LuxLuthor (May 10, 2008)

That is brilliant, Norm. I have tons of those old serial cables gathering dust that I never thought to use.


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## BVH (May 11, 2008)

Here's another source for silicone jacketed, very high strand count wire.

http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/c/3051-Wiring.aspx


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## LuxLuthor (May 12, 2008)

BVH said:


> Here's another source for silicone jacketed, very high strand count wire.
> 
> http://www.trossenrobotics.com/store/c/3051-Wiring.aspx



BVH, this got me curious, so I counted the strands in the 16AWG wire I use from CheapBatteryPacks, and believe it has around 280 total strands (I estimated from counting one of the 7 subgroups that had around 40 strands....trying to see them was like: .).

If I read your link correctly, their 16AWG has 665 strands. I may get some just to see....because the CBP wire strands are exceedingly thin already.


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## BVH (May 12, 2008)

Lux, I've not found silicone high strand count wire with a higher strand count. I really like using this stuff. I've wondered why they don't offer a 10 ga?

When you strip off some insulation on the 12 ga and then cut the remaining bare wires into your hand, the "fallout" on your hand feels like a soft powder - almost.

At McMaster-Carr, I found ultra-high strand count welding cable by Caroll. It's called Vu-Tron. There's battery cable, then there's welding cable and then there's Vu-Tron welding cable. In looking at the Ampacity charts, you can usually use a full 2 ga sizes smaller Vu-Tron cable to meet your current flow requirements as compared to their regular welding cable. A finer cable has a higher density cross-section - less air gap between the individual strands so it can carry a higher current load. This is what I used on my VSS-1 Tank light rig. Links don't seem to work to this page so go to McMastercarr.com and search for "Welding Cable". The Ampacity chart show the two types of cable in the same chart so it's easy to make a comparison. The Vu-Trom is extremely flexible cable.


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## petrev (May 12, 2008)

BVH said:


> Lux, I've not found silicone high strand count wire with a higher strand count. I really like using this stuff. I've wondered why they don't offer a 10 ga?
> 
> When you strip off some insulation on the 12 ga and then cut the remaining bare wires into your hand, the "fallout" on your hand feels like a soft powder - almost.
> 
> At McMaster-Carr, I found ultra-high strand count welding cable by Caroll. It's called Vu-Tron. There's battery cable, then there's welding cable and then there's Vu-Tron welding cable. In looking at the Ampacity charts, you can usually use a full 2 ga sizes smaller Vu-Tron cable to meet your current flow requirements as compared to their regular welding cable. A finer cable has a higher density cross-section - less air gap between the individual strands so it can carry a higher current load. This is what I used on my VSS-1 Tank light rig. Links don't seem to work to this page so go to McMastercarr.com and search for "Welding Cable". The Ampacity chart show the two types of cable in the same chart so it's easy to make a comparison. The Vu-Trom is extremely flexible cable.


 
Hi 

I have some Silicon Muldental Elektronik 6sqmm (10AWG?) *1548* strand

It's great

Cheers Pete


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## LuxLuthor (May 12, 2008)

petrev said:


> Hi
> 
> I have some Silicon Muldental Elektronik 6sqmm (10AWG?) *1548* strand
> 
> ...



Holy Moly! 

Well I ordered a Red/Black/Yellow 25 foot 3 pack of the 655 strand 16AWG which ends up being cheaper than the CBP 280 strand. Thanks guys! It is not easy to find affordable, high strand, silicone quality wire. I wonder how many strands is in the 12AWG Dean's "Wet Noodle" wire I have. I don't find a need for larger than 16AWG for hardly anything I do.


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## BVH (Jun 2, 2008)

Petrev, where did you find the 10 ga (6mm) silicone wire?


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## petrev (Jun 2, 2008)

BVH said:


> Petrev, where did you find the 10 ga (6mm) silicone wire?


 
Hi BVH

UK sellers of Muldental Kabel

Model Power . New Link
Al's hobbies

German Muldental Website Silikon-Litze Page 5

Cheers
Pete


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## petrev (Jun 4, 2008)

Hi 

Just had a PM about wire guage and current and thought I would post my thoughts for my future reference !



> Hi
> 
> 10AWG or 6qmm is right for 1000W Thor main wires (well it's what I used anyway !)
> 
> ...


 Cheers
Pete

e&oe


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## petrev (Nov 21, 2008)

petrev said:


> Hi Kent
> . . .
> 
> This is how my latest "KEY" alligns to the Spring Posts for cutting if you happen to have one !
> ...


 

Hi All

Lux has now got a "KEY" in the US and this is how the KEY works in my local Key-Cutting (Pattern-Copying) Machine

Overview




KEY in Left Vice - Shallowest Jaws (Jaws-B) - Leave loose and adjust from the Post-Cutter positioning (see Below)




Contact-Post in Right Vice (Jaws-B) 
Rear Edge(Back) alligned flush down into shallow jaws and located as far right as possible (on this machine). Lock in position.
Baseplate of Post touching side of vice (Face C )




Present Post up to the cutter blade (not running) and move bed so that top Pip of Post almost touches the cutter blade.




Slide KEY in from left to right so that top Pip just touches the Guide. Lock in position.




Check all looks correct . . .




OK ! Start Position. Start cutting from Left to Right - Slow and steady - Multi Pass if necessary . . .




Cutter Blade as fitted in my local machine !




Key Cutting Machine by Kind Arrangement with Mike
Langbridge Hardware, Larkhall, Bath, UK :thumbsup:

Hope this helps
Good Luck All
Pete


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 22, 2008)

LOL! How in the world did you get such nice close up photos from a locksmith? They do make it clear. 

This above post came after sending a PM to Petrev, because I was going to modify a number of these voltcrafts for people here in the USA, and figured I would save time getting the key pattern from Petrev. Took the contact piece and key to a local locksmith shop who said his machine only cuts brass and would need a carbide cutter to do these steel pieces. Another older machine he tried would not work with the perpendicular bottom (Voltcraft) guide getting in the way.

I'll try a couple other hardware/key making shops.


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## petrev (Nov 22, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL! How in the world did you get such nice close up photos from a locksmith? They do make it clear.
> 
> . . .
> 
> I'll try a couple other hardware/key making shops.


 
Hi Lux

Key Cutting Machine by Kind Arrangement with Mike
Langbridge Hardware, Larkhall, Bath, UK :thumbsup:

Mike Langbridge, owner and locksmith, is a great guy who knows that helpful service and advice really works. His traditional hardware shop is keeping up in the digital world but still has the good old values of a local shop too.

He and his staff have been more than helpful over the years.

Cheers
Pete


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## donn_ (Feb 27, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> ...I was going to modify a number of these voltcrafts for people..


 Lux...what is the status of this project?


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## Anders (Feb 27, 2009)

Hi there.

Anyone tryed the newer one:







Number: 200055 on Conrad
3A max

Anders


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## SafetyBob (Feb 28, 2009)

I would love to try the new one or get some more old ones. Since Conrad doesn't ship to US, any of you guys over there willing to play host for a group buy or something?

Please...............

Otherwise I will be forced to integrate charging jacks on all my flashlights which will require work and effort on my part that I seem to have problems with right now. 

Bob E.


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## Aircraft800 (Feb 28, 2009)

Anders said:


> Hi there.
> 
> Anyone tryed the newer one:
> 
> ...


 
I'm in for one, can someone get a few and ship them to the states? It's H-Tronic P/N 200055 - 62 at Conrad

It looks like the Voltcraft is still there too, P/N 512034 - 62

You can purchase it directly from the manufacture here


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## Anders (Feb 28, 2009)

Hi 

When buying from Conrad here in sweden it cost 23.47$ plus shipping.

When buying from http://www.elv.de it cost 18.37$ plus shipping. I dont know if they ship overseas.


http://cgi.ebay.de/H-TRONIC-Ladesch...34360QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
Only ship to Germany and Austria

http://www.neuhold-elektronik.at/catshop/product_info.php?cPath=195_289&products_id=3073
It looks like they ship to USA.

Anders


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## Aircraft800 (Feb 28, 2009)

Here is the manufactures store
http://www.h-tronicshop.de/artikel.aspx?sid=Q5QF28kKj1AAs3bIl93LGpcEiDhv9RxawrWbCkrYeZE%3d&art=192254

I need a transulation.
*USA*Aufschlag:20,00 €Mindestbestellwert:0,00 €Nachnahmegebühr:6,50 €Versandanbieter:---Zahlungsarten:Vorkasse Überweisung


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## petrev (Feb 28, 2009)

Anders said:


> Hi there.
> 
> Anyone tryed the newer one:
> 
> ...


 
Hi

From the look of it you cannot mod it to fit longer 18670 type cells as there is not the spare room as available in the older one. These would be fine for upto D size ! and no doubt upgradeable to higher current capacity ! ! !

Babel-Fish Translation !!!

What about those old NiCad-NiMh chargers ? they were readily available in the US and seemed fairly easily modable ?

Pete


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## QtrHorse (Feb 28, 2009)

So it is $41.91 to ship it to the US from Neuhold?


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## Mr Happy (Feb 28, 2009)

I don't know if anyone has tried it, but this might be a suitable host for modding:







It is only $7.99 from Harbor Freight Tools (ITEM 95017).

There is also a slightly more elaborate one for $14.99 (ITEM 47618):


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## Aircraft800 (Feb 28, 2009)

Either of those can be nodded, I've done a few, but I was hoping a all-for-one solution for the same price if it was avaliable:


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 28, 2009)

donn_ said:


> Lux...what is the status of this project?



Donn, sorry.....I dropped the ball after taking Petrev's key to 5 Locksmiths who all looked at me and my request like I had 4 eyes and speaking Klingon. The few that could do it with an older machine say their cutting blades are not designed for steel. I did the ones I'm using on a grinding wheel, and isn't that hard to do. 

Oh, I also got an update from Tronic a couple months ago who has to charge a bit more because of changes in currency/shipping prices. I think he is in Switzerland.

They are handy as hell. I have three of them in series, and frequently do 12s balance charging with a pair of networked Hyperion LBA-10 6s balance chargers that are an addon to the Hyperion 1210i.


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## Mr Happy (Feb 28, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> Donn, sorry.....I dropped the ball after taking Petrev's key to 5 Locksmiths who all looked at me and my request like I had 4 eyes and speaking Klingon. The few that could do it with an older machine say their cutting blades are not designed for steel. I did the ones I'm using on a grinding wheel, and isn't that hard to do.


Ah yes, generally speaking such metalworking tasks were done in the old days by hand. You would rough out the shape with a grinding wheel (or Dremel) and then finish off using hand files. Slow and laborious of course compared to using a machine, but I think craftsmen must have learned to have much more patience in times past than we have today in the computer era...


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## SafetyBob (Mar 1, 2009)

Fearing that a European group by of the Voltcraft battery holders, I went to HF today and found the model 95017 charger. 

All I have to say is WOW!! I cannot believe that they call it a battery charger. Battery mini-bake oven, yes, charger, no way!! One transformer, four diodes, and four resistors.....excellent parts count for the front office but now I am even more convinced one should only purchase a hobby charger (with computer chip and some electronics) vs. these........things that try to pass as a charger. At least the instructions told you that you were the charging monitor and you had to unplug once you I guess feel right about the amount of charge you have in your batteries. 

Aircraft, where did you get the panel mount banana jack recepticles from? I found some a Mouser, but 28 buck for 10 of them was OK, just I don't think I will need 10 black ones......Pomona too. 

Bob E.


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## Aircraft800 (Mar 1, 2009)

I got the panel mount banana jack recepticles from Radio Shack
Model: 274-725 | Catalog #: 274-725


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