# SureFire Inflation



## l2icel3all (Aug 12, 2008)

I'm not too sure why but SureFire products are going to be a lot more expensive than they are already. The E1B is going to be $149. The E2DL is going to be $149 as well. (I don't know why but E2DL seems like a better deal at $149 compared to the E1B). There are a ton of price changes effective as of July 2008. As soon as most retailers finish their current stock of SureFire items they will have to reorder them at the new prices SureFire will be selling them at, aka pass the "savings" onto us. As for how I obtained this information, its on a need to know basis. GET YOUR E1Bs and E2DLs while you still can for the "cheaper" prices. (Get the SureFires you've been considering purchasing for a while before they become more expensive)


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## climberkid (Aug 12, 2008)

Okay riceball, i trust you.  no more moneys!


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## lightsandknives (Aug 12, 2008)

Picking my E1B and E2DL up day after tomorrow. Glad I'm getting in under the wire!

Everything else has gone up, so I'm not all that surprised.


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## Force Attuned (Aug 12, 2008)

Any idea what the Kroma Milspec will go up to??


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## H2Orower (Aug 12, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> I'm not too sure why but SureFire products are going to be a lot more expensive than they are already. The E1B is going to be $149. The E2DL is going to be $149 as well. (I don't know why but E2DL seems like a better deal at $149 compared to the E1B). There are a ton of price changes effective as of July 2008. As soon as most retailers finish their current stock of SureFire items they will have to reorder them at the new prices SureFire will be selling them at, aka pass the "savings" onto us. As for how I obtained this information, its on a need to know basis. GET YOUR E1Bs and E2DLs while you still can for the "cheaper" prices. (Get the SureFires you've been considering purchasing for a while before they become more expensive)


 
That's correct. I remember reading about this increase a couple months ago here on CPF.

Here's the post: Click Me! and look at Post #13


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## l2icel3all (Aug 12, 2008)

Force Attuned said:


> Any idea what the Kroma Milspec will go up to??




$360 (Trust me)


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## bullfrog (Aug 12, 2008)

Is this going to affect the older incans or just the newer LEDs? I wanted to get another incan C2 p60 host in the next few months...

Thanks!


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## l2icel3all (Aug 12, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> Is this going to affect the older incans or just the newer LEDs? I wanted to get another incan C2 p60 host in the next few months...
> 
> Thanks!



C2 BLACK - $111

C2 HA - $122


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## bullfrog (Aug 12, 2008)

Thanks for the quick response - hmm, that enough of a difference to cover shipping or batteries... :shakehead


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## l2icel3all (Aug 12, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> Thanks for the quick response - hmm, that enough of a difference to cover shipping or batteries... :shakehead




No problem!


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## matt0 (Aug 13, 2008)

What about the P61L, T1A, UA2, and UB2?


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

matt0 said:


> What about the P61L, T1A, UA2, and UB2?



I do not have any information about those items as they were/are not available at the moment to order. The P60L is going to be $49.00. The UA2 however remains the same price of $279 for now....


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## werdnawee (Aug 13, 2008)

What is the reasoning for the price increases?

Anything specific? Or a usual practice for Surefire?

(no need for economics lesson, I'm in finance )

Would other flashlight companies also put their price increases?

I better get my E2DL quickly!!!


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## SureAddicted (Aug 13, 2008)

l2icel3all, dude are you working for SureFire? How could you possible know that info? You mite have got your second hand info off a retailer who assumes these changes will take place. Unless you heard it from the horse's mouth (SF) I reckon its all hearsay. If somehow the prices do go up, I don't think SF will be to happy, major loss of earnings.


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## Shawn L (Aug 13, 2008)

This is not hearsay. Prices are going up.


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## SureAddicted (Aug 13, 2008)

Shawn L said:


> This is not hearsay. Prices are going up.



And you are basing this on?


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## AlexGT (Aug 13, 2008)

I remember a similar tread years ago when SF did the first price hike, it was at first rumors but they were "right on the money", I think there is some truth to what he is saying.

The good thing today is that we now have very competitive choices with all the new manufacturers that have joined CPF lately.

Vote with your wallet, IMO

AlexGT


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> And you are basing this on?



You can take it with a grain of salt but when the prices start rising don't say I didn't warn you. :twothumbs


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

Removed.


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## SureAddicted (Aug 13, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> You can take it with a grain of salt but when the prices start rising don't say I didn't warn you. :twothumbs



You mean IF they rise, I still don't see any proof other than hearsay.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> You mean IF they rise, I still don't see any proof other than hearsay.



I wish I could tell you how I know this but last time I got a lot of heat for posting stuff like this on CPF so I'd rather keep it at that.


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## Monocrom (Aug 13, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> l2icel3all, dude are you working for SureFire? How could you possible know that info? You mite have got your second hand info off a retailer who assumes these changes will take place. Unless you heard it from the horse's mouth (SF) I reckon its all hearsay. If somehow the prices do go up, I don't think SF will be to happy, major loss of earnings.


 
Having a great memory comes in handy at times.

With regards to what l2icel3all posted.... let's just say I believe him when he says the prices are going to go up. 

Also, back in 2003, Surefire increased the prices on their some of their higher-end models; without actually improving the lights. People bought them anyway. Another price increase with no improvements to existing models? Not too hard to believe.


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## Size15's (Aug 13, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> You can take it with a grain of salt but when the prices start rising don't say I didn't warn you. :twothumbs


Grains for salt are getting more expensive too along with pretty much everything else.
Here in the UK it's a really big deal - the cost of living continues to increase sharply.

As others have mentioned - people still buy SureFires.
(even though the price increases aren't liked - it's just tough)

Perhaps they are trying to reduce demand so they can find time to make and release the new products? :green:


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## Monocrom (Aug 13, 2008)

Size15's said:


> As others have mentioned - people still buy SureFires.
> (even though the price increases aren't liked - it's just tough).


 
To be honest, I already own every existing Surefire model that I'm interested in. Will likely pick up a KL9 head and UB2, once they are released. But the price increase is not going to really affect me.

I feel sorry for other CPFers who are perhaps just starting to build up their Surefire collections. 

One price increase with no improvements can be forgiven. But 2 in five years?? Perhaps 3 or 4 in less than ten?.....

Like I said, I'm glad I got all of mine before the price increase.


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## climberkid (Aug 13, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> I feel sorry for other CPFers who are perhaps just starting to build up their Surefire collections.



thats me. i was planning on really building up in the next year quite a bit, but it looks likes its going to be a MUCH bigger challenge as more time passes...:shakehead


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## MSI (Aug 13, 2008)

Price increases are to be expected on most goods, but it is not very clever by SureFire to make such big jumps (35% for E1B). A yearly increase of 5% would make much more sense and would not scare away a lot of customers as this increase probably will.

Maybe the the investors that got on board last year are demanding higher ROI :thinking:


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## harddrive (Aug 13, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> You mean IF they rise, I still don't see any proof other than hearsay.



As was pointed out read post 13 in this one:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2168938

OpticsHQ is a big Surefire dealer and respected member here. If he says they are going up that's good enough for me. 

I guess we will only have proof when they are up and we go to order something and get disappointed at the price. I guess no one has to believe this if they don't want but I appreciate the heads up :thumbsup:


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## PhantomPhoton (Aug 13, 2008)

Guess I'll just have to stick with only buying SF lights when they're on sale. :ironic:


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## H2Orower (Aug 13, 2008)

Why is it so hard to believe that the price of something is going up? I don't particularly like it, but I'm certainly not in a state of disbelief.


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## BabyDoc (Aug 13, 2008)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Guess I'll just have to stick with only buying SF lights when they're on sale. :ironic:


 
When are SureFire's ever on sale? :mecry:


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## brighterisbetter (Aug 13, 2008)

MSI said:


> Price increases are to be expected on most goods, but it is not very clever by SureFire to make such big jumps (35% for E1B). A yearly increase of 5% would make much more sense and would not scare away a lot of customers as this increase probably will.
> 
> Maybe the the investors that got on board last year are demanding higher ROI :thinking:


Exactly, that's what it sounds like to me.


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## Monocrom (Aug 13, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> When are SureFire's ever on sale? :mecry:


 
Slightly used, on B/S/T.

(I've also seen a few SF lights that were still NIB, still sealed. Still new).

Best way to get Surefire lights at a reasonable price. And for those who are really upset at two huge price increases in 5 years, with zero improvements to the lights; your money goes to another CPFer.... instead of Surefire.


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## Blindasabat (Aug 13, 2008)

The price of raw materials like steel have been going up drastically in the past few years, so almost all manufacturers have to raise prices. Steel has gone up so much in the past two years, that automotive suppliers are charging us (also a supplier) surcharges every month on top of agreed on part prices to account for the changing cost of steel. Rubber is going up as well as Aluminum (called solid energy in the industry because it takes soo much energy to make it), so every material SF uses is getting more expensive. I'd say 30% is reasonable and believable for their material mix (mostly AL, some steel and rubber).


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## Monocrom (Aug 13, 2008)

Blindasabat said:


> The price of raw materials like steel have been going up drastically in the past few years, so almost all manufacturers have to raise prices. Steel has gone up so much in the past two years, that automotive suppliers are charging us (also a supplier) surcharges every month on top of agreed on part prices to account for the changing cost of steel. Rubber is going up as well as Aluminum (called solid energy in the industry because it takes soo much energy to make it), so every material SF uses is getting more expensive. I'd say 30% is reasonable and believable for their material mix (mostly AL, some steel and rubber).


 
That would make sense, except for the fact that aluminum is widespread in the flashlight industry; and I don't see any other company increasing prices by 30 - 35%.


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## mega_lumens (Aug 13, 2008)

This news is just devastating to me. I have been saving scraps to finally get an E1B and/or E2DL, before my fall semester starts. I hope I will still be able to catch the lights before this massive surge in pricing.


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## JNewell (Aug 13, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> When are SureFire's ever on sale? :mecry:


 
The funny thing about SureFire's efforts to eliminate discounting is that while discounts on the 'net are uncommon, you can often get very significant discounts from B&Ms who are willing to do so. (Some will, others point to the SF policy as a reason that they can't.)


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## PhantomPhoton (Aug 13, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> When are SureFire's ever on sale? :mecry:



I've only seen it happen twice in the past 2 years. Thus in the past 2 years I have bought 2 Surefires.

I don't play MSRP.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Having a great memory comes in handy at times.
> 
> With regards to what l2icel3all posted.... let's just say I believe him when he says the prices are going to go up.
> 
> Also, back in 2003, Surefire increased the prices on their some of their higher-end models; without actually improving the lights. People bought them anyway. Another price increase with no improvements to existing models? Not too hard to believe.



+1, Monocrom have you forgotten where I work at?


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## Illum (Aug 13, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> When are SureFire's ever on sale? :mecry:



the basic models: G2, G2L, 6P, 6PL, 9P[?]
have been told to have been sold at brick/mortar stores, Lowes, etc. Where the prices will dip at some point, if your trying for surefires online, my only advise is to go with used lights from BST



l2icel3all said:


> +1, Monocrom have you forgotten where I work at?



where ever it iz you sure hasn't told us :thinking:
Theres many rumors that up to know has not occurred
the L4 hasn't been discontinued
the L5 hasn't been discontinued
the E1e hasn't been discontinued
etc.

What compelling evidence could you possibly have to be convinced of this price inflation? Granted the price of everything increases now because of economical inflation, but two dramatic price increases in the same year?! theres something really wrong here...
First, inaccurate lumen ratings [they used to underestimate values, now that the P60/61L came out, their lumen values are overestimated]
Second, exaggerated runtimes for the KX1/2 heads
Third, increase in price?oo:


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> the basic models: G2, G2L, 6P, 6PL, 9P[?]
> have been told to have been sold at brick/mortar stores, Lowes, etc. Where the prices will dip at some point, if your trying for surefires online, my only advise is to go with used lights from BST
> 
> 
> ...



I work at a Sportings good Specialty store in NYC. I told Monocrom this when he mentioned he came by to pick up his backup. As the for prices going up you can be like the others and not believe me I really don't blame you. I would love to reveal how I am able to obtain this information but I really appreciate having a job so I'd rather not. The l4 l5 and the E1E really aren't discontinued. I was shocked because the information I have recieved indicates that it is possible to still order them from SureFire if you are a retailer.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

The L5 isn't discontinued actually special ordered one for myself from Surefire. The only downside is since my company never carried it they are ordering it for the first time meaning they have to purchase it by the new pricing plan as of July 08 meaning without my employee discount the L5 is $195 dollars.


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## Kestrel (Aug 13, 2008)

Well, this news put me over the edge, just this evening I pulled the trigger on another L1 and a G2 LED. Also trying to tempt three non-flashaholic friends who are on the edge... :devil:


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## Lane (Aug 13, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Slightly used, on B/S/T.
> 
> (I've also seen a few SF lights that were still NIB, still sealed. Still new).
> 
> Best way to get Surefire lights at a reasonable price. And for those who are really upset at two huge price increases in 5 years, with zero improvements to the lights; your money goes to another CPFer.... instead of Surefire.


 
X's 2:thumbsup:

Thank goodness for eBay!


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## knightrider (Aug 13, 2008)

So are all prices going up? Lets say I want another A2, being an older model will it also go up in price? Or is it just the newer stuff?


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

knightrider said:


> So are all prices going up? Lets say I want another A2, being an older model will it also go up in price? Or is it just the newer stuff?



A2's remain the same price of $199.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

knightrider said:


> So are all prices going up? Lets say I want another A2, being an older model will it also go up in price? Or is it just the newer stuff?



Some of the older models have slight price changes. 

6p - $62 instead of the classic $59
Z2 - $96 instead of $93
U2 - $295 instead of 279 (I have no clue since it is suppose to be replaced by the new OPTIMUS and INVICTUS models)
M6 - $425 instead of $399 (That goes for the CB model as well) 
m3 - $269 instead of $252 ( CB model as well)

There are more but since there are a lot of doubters I will leave the price changes at that.


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## Lane (Aug 13, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Slightly used, on B/S/T.
> 
> (I've also seen a few SF lights that were still NIB, still sealed. Still new).
> 
> Best way to get Surefire lights at a reasonable price. And for those who are really upset at two huge price increases in 5 years, with zero improvements to the lights; your money goes to another CPFer.... instead of Surefire.


 
Something else that will be worth watching after the price increase will be what happens to the price for used SF lights and new SF lights through other retailers.

The last six "new" 6P's sold on eBay averaged $49.10 US. That's $10 less than the classic price.:thinking:


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

Lane said:


> Something else that will be worth watching after the price increase will be what happens to the price for used SF lights and new SF lights through other retailers.
> 
> The last six "new" 6P's sold on eBay averaged $49.10 US. That's $10 less than the classic price.:thinking:



Well ebay is ebay thats like comparing prices in a flea market to prices in a brick and mortar store. Sometimes you find a diamond in the rough. Just last week I found an A2 that ended at 96 dollars. Thats 104 dollars off of the regular price.


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## Retinator (Aug 13, 2008)

Well with energy prices going nuts, it was only a matter of time.

Gonna keep an eye out for an E1L myself, hard to find a 2-stage around here.Loads of old stock, so I'd rather B&M it.

Wonder what the Hellfire/Beast will jump to? Not that I can afford it 

As for converting others...
Once they hear $85 for my 6PL, they just clam up. If I gave anyone an SF, they'd see the price of batteries in a regular store, and it would sit empty forever....(sniff)


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

Retinator said:


> Well with energy prices going nuts, it was only a matter of time.
> 
> Gonna keep an eye out for an E1L myself, hard to find a 2-stage around here.Loads of old stock, so I'd rather B&M it.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure about the current retail price for the HELLFIGHTER but, the information I have obtained indicates that it is $5,455 that includes an IR FILTER. It is $7,399.00 for the hellfighter kit; not too sure what that comes with. As for the beast the pricing for that was not mentioned.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 13, 2008)

Btw 6PL is going to be $89 dollars instead of $85. Believe it or not I am just letting you guys know the facts; thats right...I SAID FACTS!


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## generic808 (Aug 14, 2008)

Hmm...so my two BNIB M6's, crenellated and scalloped on B/S/T for $310 and $300 respectively, is a pretty good deal! :wave:

Any idea what the M4, C3, and C2 will jump to? Thanks.


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## bullfrog (Aug 14, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> C2 BLACK - $111
> 
> C2 HA - $122



Here you go.


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## generic808 (Aug 14, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> Here you go.



Thanks BF! How's about the M4, 6PD, and 9P? Any clue?


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## bullfrog (Aug 14, 2008)

No problem!

Not sure - I only asked l2icel3all about the C2s..

I'm itching to get another C2 or a C3 pretty soon - decisions, decisions.


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## MSI (Aug 14, 2008)

After seeing the other price increases I'm not so baffled anymore, those are what I would call normal price increases. The E1B is probably their best selling light now, so they are probably thinking it will still sell at the much higher price. I'm glad I already have one.


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## MSI (Aug 14, 2008)

Blindasabat said:


> The price of raw materials like steel have been going up drastically in the past few years, so almost all manufacturers have to raise prices. Steel has gone up so much in the past two years, that automotive suppliers are charging us (also a supplier) surcharges every month on top of agreed on part prices to account for the changing cost of steel. Rubber is going up as well as Aluminum (called solid energy in the industry because it takes soo much energy to make it), so every material SF uses is getting more expensive. I'd say 30% is reasonable and believable for their material mix (mostly AL, some steel and rubber).



The cost of production and the selling price often shows little relation. Lets just take the KX2 and the KX2C heads as examples. They cost the same to produce, but one retail for $66, the other for $135.


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## carrot (Aug 14, 2008)

I trust RiceBall. 

Too bad about Surefire raising their prices. I was thinking about getting an E1B or an L1. I guess I have to think faster now.


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## jp2515 (Aug 14, 2008)

I have noticed in general that the price for almost anything has gone up. I will concur with the notion of voting with your wallet and he fact there are more choices today than in the past.


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## Monocrom (Aug 14, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> +1, Monocrom have you forgotten where I work at?


 
Nope! And I never will. 

(Just the way my brain is hardwired).

BTW, I came in to pick up a Surefire M6 that time. Don't own an E1B Backup.... Maybe if they had some checkering on their slippery barrels. 

Heck, I might stop by this weekend. Got a bit of spare cash to toss around. If you still have E1Bs at $110, I might buy one and then sell it for under $149 on B/S/T; when the price goes up.... Oh wait, I'm a nice guy. :sigh:

Meh, might still drop by, see what you guys got.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 14, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Nope! And I never will.
> 
> (Just the way my brain is hardwired).
> 
> ...



Lets keep that our little secret. The E1B is still $110. We have 101 of them in stock so buy as many as you want and then drop em off at B/S/T LOL :twothumbs


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## l2icel3all (Aug 14, 2008)

When did you come in to pick up the m6? Just curious...........


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## SureAddicted (Aug 14, 2008)

harddrive said:


> As was pointed out read post 13 in this one:
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2168938
> 
> OpticsHQ is a big Surefire dealer and respected member here. If he says they are going up that's good enough for me.
> ...



Like I said before, If you hear it from the horses mouth, fair enough. My SF dealer doesn't know anything about a price increase, sf should start communicating with their distributors, he still doesn't have any E1B's, or E2DL's. September huh...lol.

EDIT I apologize if it sounded like an allegation, it wasn't my intention.


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## DM51 (Aug 14, 2008)

SureAddicted, that is uncomfortably close to an allegation of sharp/dishonest practice by a respected dealer. Please edit that part of your post to remove the offending imputation.

_Edit: Thanks for doing that._


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## TJx (Aug 14, 2008)

Just for fun I calculated the percent of retail I had for my SF's.
(Easy to do with a Mac outliner program I've got)
24 SureFires either bought new or in mint condition, I paid 58% of retail.
Good deals can be found!


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## Monocrom (Aug 14, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> Lets keep that our little secret.


 
 

Got my M6 back in January. :twothumbs


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## Black Rose (Aug 14, 2008)

I'd like a 6PL, but even at it's current price it's a bit rich for me.

Sucks to be a frugal flashaholic


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 14, 2008)

Well...look at the bright side...folks who own Surfires an sell them for more. And buy Fenix`s :touche::banned::lolsign:

I guess Surfire sales are down...so they need to up the price per unit to keep the ship running smooth. Maybe the new ones will have brighter bulbs...35% brighter  When are those new model Surefires going to hit the stores :thinking:


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## LED-holic (Aug 14, 2008)

I'm sure SureFire consulted with economists to ensure the increased prices won't decrease demand too much.

Unfortunately for those who have limited budgets, this will be a hard increase to absorb. Unless this is for a critical need like a LEO job or security job, a SureFire purchase would be a luxury that some could not afford.

It will be interesting to see the elasticity of demand based upon the price increase.

This is a very interesting case study because consumers are pulling back spending, except for essential needs like food, gas, clothing, etc. I wonder if this price increase over the long term will hold, in the face of reduced consumer spending, increased competition from other light manufacturers, etc...


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## Illum (Aug 14, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> I would love to reveal how I am able to obtain this information but I really appreciate having a job so I'd rather not.



I understand :thumbsup:
Thanks for risking your neck to inform us:kiss:


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## ozner1991 (Aug 14, 2008)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! :mecry:

i just wanted to start buying surefire lights :sigh: just my luck


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## mega_lumens (Aug 14, 2008)

Rules of demand under price increase may not apply to SF if their main chunk of income comes from government sales and not from the average Joe consumer; especially when our military is fighting two fronts, I'm sure the DOD won't even feel the pinch. I don't think SF had a large market in law enforcement agencies to begin with, but with like specialized units, since they are small the budget can cover the needed goodies. (just my opinion)


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## l2icel3all (Aug 14, 2008)

I like the interesting responses on this thread so far. Carry on!


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## hokoman (Aug 14, 2008)

what's funny, and i'm surprised that no one has mentioned is... is that most people who buy a surefire (like me recently - 2 actually, one l1 and waiting for milky to send me an l1 modified) didn't know what the prices were for them a year ago... only if you're a flash-a-holic would you know the price increases.

very similar to retail... how many of you knew that the heart tag bracelet from tiffany and company retailed for $115 in 2003? it's $195 now. a louis vuitton cabas piano handbag was $525 in 2005, now it's $1040. if you were shopping for your significant other, would you realize that you paid a premium?


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## l2icel3all (Aug 14, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I understand :thumbsup:
> Thanks for risking your neck to inform us:kiss:



No problem! Always willing to help out fellow CPFers :thumbsup:


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 15, 2008)

Well...the question is...are we going to do anything about it...Is this why the Chinese are taking over...American companies raise thier prices to the point of breaking us...American greed.  I say we ban Surefire from these threads...no mention of thier name shall be posted. :thumbsdow:thumbsdow When their willing to bring the prices back down we will talk about them again. :kiss::kiss:

Yea...like thats going to happen...but they are going to loose at least a few sales from the poorer of our members...like me...


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## bullfrog (Aug 15, 2008)

Actually, some companies are starting to relocate production facilities back to the US because prices overseas are getting too competitive and the cost of shipping is horrible.

Further, in all honestly us private citizens are a drop in the bucket for Surefire - if I understand correctly the gross majority of their business is police and military.

Also, I personally don't mind paying the extra $$ - I honestly feel that many of their lights are UNDERPRICED ($110 for an E1B is a steal) when you take into consideration their build quality, but even more so, their engineering, research and development - this is where the profit goes. This is why the UB2 and UB2 are taking forever - they wont release them until they are perfect and $ is needed to recoup this effort.

Just a noobs perspective (who thoroughly enjoys surefire).


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## Greggles (Aug 15, 2008)

mega_lumens said:


> Rules of demand under price increase may not apply to SF if their main chunk of income comes from government sales and not from the average Joe consumer; especially when our military is fighting two fronts, I'm sure the DOD won't even feel the pinch. (just my opinion)



I thought for some time that Surefire brought most of their income in from military sales, and that civilian sales and marketing were more brand awareness efforts. More recently, I've noticed them branch out into more traditional retailers like Lowes and REI, where such price increases should result in more obvious demand elasticity (I think).

Does anyone have any ideas as to what percentage Surefire sells to gov't vs. Joe Consumer? 

My father has owned and operated a small machine shop for the past 35 years, specializing in oil field and hydraulic small parts, much of which is aluminum. I showed him a 6P a few years ago and asked him how much he could machine one for. I was shocked at the actual pricing he came up with when dealing in large batches (of course he couldn't price the lense or lamp module). 

Of course prices are going up for barstock, cutting tools, lubricants, etc... But if these rumored price increases come to fruition, I suspect they will be driven by increases in the soft costs. Advertising, warranty costs, insurance, regulatory costs, legal costs, etc, etc, etc. There is so much extra cost being layered into american businesses that it's surprising that we can compete at all. The only way my father has stayed in business has been to stay small and flexible, and located convenient to the businesses buying his product. 

Of course, I've never opened Surefire's books and done a case study on their finances, so I could be completely wrong.


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## cfromc (Aug 15, 2008)

Riceball, do you know what the 6PD and 6PDL are going to be priced? TIA


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## Federal LG (Aug 15, 2008)

Anyway, does someone mention *REAL reasons* for the price inflation ?

I mean... they´re already expensive as hell (but they are good lights), but now they´re going to be more expensive ??

Oh, c´mon!! That´s not reasonable!

Maybe SF can open a small factory in China... and move the E2DL, the E1B and the Invictus line of production for China.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 15, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Anyway, does someone mention *REAL reasons* for the price inflation ?
> 
> I mean... they´re already expensive as hell (but they are good lights), but now they´re going to be more expensive ??
> 
> Oh, c´mon!! That´s not reasonable!


 
I`m sure every one here feels the same...I know I couldn`t agree with you more. But in the end...who really cares...so many other great manufactures and lights...plenty other choices. Many of them brighter.

As far as why...lot`s of guesses could be made. My guess...already said...is that sales are way down. A lot of other choices today that were not there even a year ago. Pro-departments are feeling money pinches just like every State...don`t really know how many sales they accounted for anyway...

In all the years I`ve belonged to CPF I`ve never seen a link to anything credible that said "XYZ dept purchases 1000 Surefires for thier Troops, officers...swat...nothing. Just assumed...that they have goobs of contracts.

Or we might prefer to guess that Surefire just wants to give thier employees some nice big 35% raises cause they love them. I`m sure the guy`s at the top already make plenty...so they would pass it up to help the poorer ones beneath them.

Or...sales are so good that they need to raise the price...supply/demand...bring the demand down by raising the price...so the workers can go home on time...spend time with the family.

Folks might want think that they just cost way more because...materials have gone up...I doubt thats quite the case...but it does make me feel better about buying one in the future.

I didn`t buy a $2500 vacumm from that Kirby salesman...I`m sure there nice...worth every penny. But my $129 one does just fine for me. 

But then again...I`m not vacohalic either.:green: Oh oh


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## Shawn L (Aug 15, 2008)

Saw this in LED area.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2191673&postcount=225


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## l2icel3all (Aug 15, 2008)

Shawn L said:


> Saw this in LED area.
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2191673&postcount=225


 
I think that someone owes me an apology......


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## Mercaptan (Aug 15, 2008)

I like how items not even out in retail are being marked up...

Curse you X400!!!

Also interesting to see the T1A's price. Never knew that before.


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## rtt (Aug 15, 2008)

Here’s a thought (not even an opinion). It has been stated many times that Surefire’s largest customer is the military and other government agencies. If this is true, what better way to charge them more than to create a new increased pricing structure across the board for all consumers, civilian and military? SF may not care if they lose sales to the general public as the sales may not be that large. This could be a way of increasing the cost to the government agencies without much push back. The large increase could just be a marketing tool as they may offer the government quantity discounts of lets say 20 percent and still make an additional 15 percent.

The sad part is we the American public actually pay for all the SF products that the government agencies procure! If we purchase a SF product we get to pay additional increases twice!


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## cfromc (Aug 15, 2008)

Badbeams3 said:


> I`m sure every one here feels the same...I know I couldn`t agree with you more. But in the end...who really cares...so many other great manufactures and lights...plenty other choices. Many of them brighter.


 
I sure the Hell don't agree or feel the same. Its bad enough already that half the things (or more it seems) for sale in the US are made somewhere else. I'd rather pay more to get something that supports my fellow Americans when an American item is available that fits my needs. The job I save could be my own. I'm not trying to disparage anyone, I'm just saying that given a comparable product I'll generally go with the one made in my country. Unfortunately, many of my fellow Americans only see the price tag and have no concept of what they are doing to the country. Brightness isn't everything either and how bright do you really need the light? I have a ROP that I rarely use, most often just to play around with. My most often used lights are my C3 with a P60L and my Novatac 120P. I rarely need more than the 80 or 120 lumens they put out. 

Off soapbox


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## rtt (Aug 15, 2008)

cfromc said:


> Unfortunately, many of my fellow Americans only see the price tag and have no concept of what they are doing to the country.


 
Unfortunately, many of my fellow Americans jobs have been lost due to their job being off shored to other countries by the Companies they worked for!


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## cfromc (Aug 16, 2008)

rtt said:


> Unfortunately, many of my fellow Americans jobs have been lost due to their job being off shored to other countries by the Companies they worked for!


 
Exactly! People only looking at the bottom line, not the consequences. 
How much money can we save so we have more money to spend on stuff we don't need. How much can business offshore until there is no one left that can afford to buy their products? A lot of us want that quick fix with no long-term thought behind it. Someday the SWHTF.


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## bigfoot (Aug 16, 2008)

After looking at that chart it appears that the items with the largest price increases are going to be the E1L ($99 to $129), E1B ($110 to $149), P60L module ($39 to $49), and KX1 & KX2 heads ($66 to $109).

Interesting... so it's not really the upper-end lights with a sharp increase, but rather the lower-end lights and LED conversions.

When you stop and think about it, SureFire is probably realizing less and less income as the incandescent lights are being phased out to make room for LED models, resulting in fewer purchases of incandescent assemblies. And not only that, but the LEDs are now more efficient and require fewer battery feedings, resulting in less money made on batteries by SureFire.

So instead of a cheaper price for a light up front, with money collected over the life of the product for replacement assemblies & lots of batteries, you are paying more up front for a light that will require less money paid out over time. Same amount spent -- different way of getting there.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 16, 2008)

cfromc said:


> Exactly! People only looking at the bottom line, not the consequences.
> How much money can we save so we have more money to spend on stuff we don't need. How much can business offshore until there is no one left that can afford to buy their products? A lot of us want that quick fix with no long-term thought behind it. Someday the SWHTF.


 

You have a great veiwpoint. I can`t say your wrong at all. Perhaps Surefire is running into some troubles and has to raise prices...as I suggested. But often companies raise prices just for extra profit...greed. Their sense of loyalty to the American public...in terms of keeping their product affordable...is abstract...concerned in reality with their own personal goals...for wealth...for example. Who is not being loyal to who? 

I don`t know. I don`t know whats in the minds of the Surefire executives. :tinfoil:


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 16, 2008)

bigfoot said:


> After looking at that chart it appears that the items with the largest price increases are going to be the E1L ($99 to $129), E1B ($110 to $149), P60L module ($39 to $49), and KX1 & KX2 heads ($66 to $109).
> 
> Interesting... so it's not really the upper-end lights with a sharp increase, but rather the lower-end lights and LED conversions.
> 
> ...


 
Good points! Let`s keep in mind that untill 2 years ago or so, Surefire wasn`t in the batt business. Might have gotten used to the extra dollars from batt sales...now waning perhaps.


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## bigfoot (Aug 16, 2008)

Could be. And it's all speculation and theory on our part as to SureFire's motives. They are running a business after all, and can do what they wish. Prices have gone up on everything from cheese to gas to toilet paper, so I'm not really surprised about this.

Another interesting note... it looks like it will be more expensive to piecemeal a light together:

6P Incan. $62 + P60L $49 = $111 under new pricing.
6PL = $89 under new pricing.

E1E Incan. $79 + KX1 = $109 = $188 under new pricing.
E1L = $129 under new pricing.

For what it's worth (not much), here's more speculation to add to the heap... perhaps SureFire has been selling more LED upgrade modules and fewer flashlights over the past year or so. This might be their way of urging people to buy a new light rather than just update their old one. In a way they are their own worst enemy; their products are so well designed & warrantied that people rarely replace them. (Well, except for us flashaholics.) 

Nonetheless, I'll continue to support them and keep a little money here in the United States.


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## jzmtl (Aug 16, 2008)

Ouch, if anybody wants anything better get it now.


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## H2Orower (Aug 16, 2008)

What do you guys make of the fact that the L4 is NOT on the price change list?

l2icel3all - Would you happen to know what the L4 price change is?

I'm just real curious because I just got one yesterday and the SF rep mentioned an upcoming update to the light sometime around November. Perhaps she was incorrect and the light is being phased out afterall. Refer to this other thread here for a discussion of the L4 with pics of latest L4 with _long clip._


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## Size15's (Aug 16, 2008)

SureFire is gradually updating it's LuxeonV models - the KL5 has become the KL5A, it was the first.
At some point SureFire will want to do something with the L4 and L2. I would not put any confidence in rumours or 'news' of what this will be, nor when.
SS2009 may well be the best time to find out...


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## H2Orower (Aug 16, 2008)

I just found it interesting that Mike's list appears to be rather extensive and detailed, and yet, is missing a few notable lights. For example, I see the L2, but not the L4 or L5. And the L5 has even been updated rather recently. I am just curious if there is a reason for the ommissions, or is it just a simple oversight.


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## JNewell (Aug 16, 2008)

Al, can you elaborate a little on the plans for the KL5A? I thought it had been shelved???


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## JNewell (Aug 16, 2008)

Prices...the big picture needs to be remembered.

First, materials costs are up. It's true that that affects everyone, but it is an unavoidable component of price increases that SureFire has no control over.

Second, American labor generally speaking costs more than offshore labor. People like to whip offshore brands, and they like to scourge companies that take production offshore. Folks, you can't have it both ways. Either we keep production here and pay for American wagescale, insurance, retirement, etc., or we buy from offshore sources where wages (if paid at all...some state-affiliated operations use, ehmm, "involuntary" laborers) are much lower, the environmental and other operating costs are lower or non-existent, etc. You can't have it both ways. There is no magic to American manufacturing...ask me (or rather, don't) about my Fords (never again). But wherever possible, and not palpably irrational, I'll go with the American product. (Sorry if that sounds like I'm a nationalistic chauvanist...)


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## H2Orower (Aug 16, 2008)

JNewell said:


> Al, can you elaborate a little on the plans for the KL5A? I thought it had been shelved???


 
Did you intend to say KL*4*A?, cause the KL5A is alive and well right here. :shrug:


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## JNewell (Aug 16, 2008)

H2Orower said:


> Did you intend to say KL*4*A?, cause the KL5A is alive and well right here. :shrug:


 
Brainfart, sorry. Crossed the KL5A with the KX5.


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## H2Orower (Aug 16, 2008)

JNewell said:


> Brainfart, sorry. Crossed the KL5A with the KX5.


 
No problem... Been there.


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## E__WOK (Aug 16, 2008)

i guess none of you shoot. i remember when 5.56 ammo was under $200/1000. it is now $300-$400/1000 rounds.


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## LumenMan (Aug 16, 2008)

E__WOK said:


> i guess none of you shoot. i remember when 5.56 ammo was under $200/1000. it is now $300-$400/1000 rounds.


 

Those were the good old days !


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 16, 2008)

I remember earning $2.35 an hour...And hoping to work my way up to $4.00...I wanted to be rich 

A bottle of Coke cost 10 cents...gallon of gas...25 cent...or less.:thinking:


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## Monocrom (Aug 16, 2008)

bigfoot said:


> After looking at that chart it appears that the items with the largest price increases are going to be the E1L ($99 to $129), E1B ($110 to $149), P60L module ($39 to $49), and KX1 & KX2 heads ($66 to $109).
> 
> Interesting... so it's not really the upper-end lights with a sharp increase, but rather the lower-end lights and LED conversions.


 
Makes sense.... The first price increase with zero improvements to their lights, back in 2003, mainly concerned their upper-end models. 

There are some lights that, If you really want them, your only choice is Surefire. (Like the Kroma). But thankfully, if the price goes up to where some folks have a hard time affording the Surefire light that they want, there are indeed similar models from other companies; at lower prices.


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## Monocrom (Aug 16, 2008)

bigfoot said:


> Another interesting note... it looks like it will be more expensive to piecemeal a light together:


 
It's generally always been that way with Surefire. I recently bought a KL5 head that I planned to use on a 9P body. The head was only $40 less than a complete L5 light.... So I took the head back, and bought an L5 from another shop. Much less expensive than Frankensteining a KL5 / 9P light. (And I liked having a carry clip instead of relying on a holster). 

Some SF heads are priced so closely to complete lights, that most of the time it's just easier buying the complete light. Maybe that's what Surefire was going for all along. 

I guess in my case, it worked!


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## outersquare (Aug 16, 2008)

E__WOK said:


> i guess none of you shoot. i remember when 5.56 ammo was under $200/1000. it is now $300-$400/1000 rounds.


 

i shoot,
not even a year ago, 100 rounds of 9mm WWB was $12.50 at the cheapest walmarts. Now it is as high as $20 a box.

the USD has fallen dramatically in the past two years, nothing has gotten cheaper. food and gasoline have also gone up. 

IMO this is the direct result of bad gov spending and FEDERAL RESERVE policies. They have flooded the financial system with loans to the banks to cover losses from mortgages and such.

If price increases **** you off, write and call your ELECTED OFFICIALS and tell them to stop bailing out the banks and financial system.


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## Monocrom (Aug 16, 2008)

Another option for Shooters is to handload your own ammunitition.

Like using 17670 cells in some Surefire models, it's cheaper in the long run.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 17, 2008)

H2Orower said:


> What do you guys make of the fact that the L4 is NOT on the price change list?
> 
> l2icel3all - Would you happen to know what the L4 price change is?
> 
> I'm just real curious because I just got one yesterday and the SF rep mentioned an upcoming update to the light sometime around November. Perhaps she was incorrect and the light is being phased out afterall. Refer to this other thread here for a discussion of the L4 with pics of latest L4 with _long clip._



L4 is $175

To answer all your questions the KL5a is $150

I like the list that Mike from OpticsHQ posted. The list I have is a little more comprehensive and detailed. For confidentiality purposes I can't post the list due to the fact that it has very classified info such as wholesale prices. (NO I WILL NOT TELL YOU HOW MUCH THEY COST TO BUY, DON'T ASK, DON'T BOTHER!)


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## l2icel3all (Aug 17, 2008)

L5 is $195. I ordered one last week from SureFire and it was subject to their new pricing rates. Thank god for my discount at my place of employment otherwise I would never see the brightness of a KL5a.


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## MSI (Aug 17, 2008)

H2Orower said:


> I just found it interesting that Mike's list appears to be rather extensive and detailed, and yet, is missing a few notable lights. For example, I see the L2, but not the L4 or L5. And the L5 has even been updated rather recently. I am just curious if there is a reason for the ommissions, or is it just a simple oversight.



The list OpticsHQ posted only contains items they will stock, so since they will not stock the L4, it is not on their list.


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## H2Orower (Aug 17, 2008)

MSI said:


> The list OpticsHQ posted only contains items they will stock, so since they will not stock the L4, it is not on their list.


 
Thanks. I just read a response from Mike over on the MarketPlace thread and he said just that. 




l2icel3all said:


> L4 is $175
> 
> To answer all your questions the KL5a is $150
> 
> I like the list that Mike from OpticsHQ posted. The list I have is a little more comprehensive and detailed. For confidentiality purposes I can't post the list due to the fact that it has very classified info such as wholesale prices. (NO I WILL NOT TELL YOU HOW MUCH THEY COST TO BUY, DON'T ASK, DON'T BOTHER!)


 
Thanks for the info.


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## MSI (Aug 18, 2008)

l2icel3all, do you know how much the KL9 will be and when to expect it?


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## tango44 (Aug 18, 2008)




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## Retinator (Aug 18, 2008)

Interesting if the above holds true.

There is a tremendous amount of redundancy now between the original incandescent and their newer LED counterparts.

I would speculate by the lack of increases, that the Executive series and the C3 are on their way out. Maybe even the G2Z.

Somewhat new to me is the mention of a 9PL, sure the G3L has been around but I was wondering how long before we see it's aluminum counterpart.

Amazing that all of the older/pricier lights are only being bumped a few %, while the little lights get BUMPED. So much for entry level  Perhaps they are even more focused on military than the general ppl. Which is a good thing I think. Still it's very sad for us.

At least many of their lights are P60 based and can be upgraded over the years. And upgrading the KL/X# heads is an option as well. Maybe they felt that the popularity of their lower end lights justified a hike?

Also, this potential surge of income may also point to even greater ambitions in the coming years for their product development. Time will tell.......


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## Retinator (Aug 18, 2008)

Oh ya, does anyone know of any other increases with accessories (beamshapers etc..) and batteries?

Just curious, my plain boring stock 6PL is good enough for me.


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## jzmtl (Aug 18, 2008)

Look earlier in this thread for link to opticshq's post for full list.

http://picasaweb.google.com/OpticsHQ


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## JNewell (Aug 18, 2008)

Interesting table. The E1B and E1L are way out front on a percentage basis.


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## bullfrog (Aug 18, 2008)

So, is the pricing on Surefire brand CR123 batteries going up as well?


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## l2icel3all (Aug 19, 2008)

MSI said:


> l2icel3all, do you know how much the KL9 will be and when to expect it?



Unfortunately the list I have does not include the KL9, I'm going to say it is safe to say they might not be out til 2009.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 19, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> So, is the pricing on Surefire brand CR123 batteries going up as well?



Batteries stay the same price.

The funny thing is the way they sell the batteries in bulk and the prices.

SF1200-BULK = 1200 BATTERIES - $1,848.00

SF38400-BULK = 38400 BATTERIES - $60,825.00

SF400-BULK = 400 BATTERIES - $660.00

Pretty interesting pricing scheme I must say. 

I'd love to be able to purchase the bulk case of 38,400 but I can put a down payment on a house and buy 1-2 cars with that amount of money.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 19, 2008)

tango44 said:


>



I will say this again........I think someone owes me an apology and say I was right....hehehe :nana::wave:


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## PhantomPhoton (Aug 19, 2008)

Here lies the E1B.
May she rest in peace.


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## sORe-EyEz (Aug 19, 2008)

somehow i feel the price of incand lights should be lowered, with the arrival of high powered LED.

maybe with incand stocks sales down there may be a discount in the near future?


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## tango44 (Aug 19, 2008)

http://picasaweb.google.com/OpticsHQ/SureFirePriceChanges/photo#5234828062458921826
The KX series are going 65% up, that's insane!!!!!


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Aug 19, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> SF1200-BULK = 1200 BATTERIES - $1,848.00
> 
> SF38400-BULK = 38400 BATTERIES - $60,825.00
> 
> SF400-BULK = 400 BATTERIES - $660.00




I'll take the 400 battery pack. It seems to be the best deal.


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## Monocrom (Aug 19, 2008)

tango44 said:


> http://picasaweb.google.com/OpticsHQ/SureFirePriceChanges/photo#5234828062458921826
> The KX series are going 65% up, that's insane!!!!!


 
Looks like Surefire decided to make it even more blatantly obvious that they'd prefer customers to buy the whole light, instead of just the head.

Why buy just the head, for a bit more; you can get the entire light.


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## LED-holic (Aug 19, 2008)

I'm wondering if SureFire is running low on their lights due to military contracts, and thus are raising the prices for civillians to reduce demand...


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## Monocrom (Aug 19, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> I'm wondering if SureFire is running low on their lights due to military contracts, and thus are raising the prices for civillians to reduce demand...


 
Reduce demand?

I doubt it. More likely Surefire feels they can do again what they did back in '03.... Raise prices on their lights, with zero improvements, and civilian collectors will still buy them anyway. 

I know of someone who stopped buying Surefire lights back during the increase of 2003. But it's all about numbers. For every 1 customer who gets upset enough to stop buying new Surefire lights, there's 10 who will keep on buying them. (Just a general ratio. Not something carved in stone).


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## sORe-EyEz (Aug 19, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Looks like Surefire decided to make it even more blatantly obvious that they'd prefer customers to buy the whole light, instead of just the head.
> 
> Why buy just the head, for a bit more; you can get the entire light.


 
if that'z true, then some who have their incand versions will be rather disappointed. :shakehead instead of switching to LED conversion heads, a fraction may switch brands.

as for paying abit more, others may find paying a bit or much less for alternatives more worth their pennies. & uses cheaper batteries to boot! :nana:

my SGD$0.02.


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## JNewell (Aug 19, 2008)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Here lies the E1B.
> May she rest in peace.


 
Just for clarity, you're referring to the price hike on this light?


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 19, 2008)

This has been po-po'd by those in the know, but CPF is a heavy duty market for SF, and has the buying power, I think, of a small nation's military. I think that raising prices will have many of us looking for alternative solutions for our lighting/accessory purchases. For example, and a small one maybe, but raising the P60L to $49.00 makes the Malkoff M60 drop ins, very sensible, price wise. I am saying this as a CPF member who thinks that SF's are the "cat's meow". 

With the price of gas, groceries, utilities, bridge fare, tolls, etc going up constantly, and our salaries, and pensions, not raising likewise, we just have to be more careful about how we spend our money. Many of us will make our lighting/accessory purchases, but fewer of them, and we will see how we can stretch the dollar. BST in the Market Place will be frequented more, as our buying power goes down, and as prices rise in the retail market. We will hold on to our past purchases and upgrade them instead of buying new.

As much as I like Surefire products, I have not purchases a new SF product in the past three years, and when I did buy an expensive light recently (Titanium Gatlight) that only happened after I sold off many, many flashlight items.

Bill


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## etc (Aug 19, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> I'd love to be able to purchase the bulk case of 38,400 but I can put a down payment on a house and buy 1-2 cars with that amount of money.




Or be the financial head of a large PD and have that kind of budget of taxpayer's money -- which is the main reason SF dominates these circles. Plus might be a discount off the listed price.

If you cannot do that, get 16 AA rechargebles, a charger and a Fenix.


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## Size15's (Aug 19, 2008)

Bill, my guess is that it would take SureFire no more than a week to make all the flashlights it sells to CPF members in a whole year. My first guess was 2-3 days. I have no solid data of CPF purchasing number to back this up.
Everything I've ever experienced about SureFire, and about CPF points towards the community having negligible influence when it comes to price or direction of SureFire products.


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## UWAK (Aug 19, 2008)

I'm not living in the states but same things happen here. I totally agree with you Bill.


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## E__WOK (Aug 20, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> This has been po-po'd by those in the know, but CPF is a heavy duty market for SF, and has the buying power, I think, of a small nation's military. I think that raising prices will have many of us looking for alternative solutions for our lighting/accessory purchases. For example, and a small one maybe, but raising the P60L to $49.00 makes the Malkoff M60 drop ins, very sensible, price wise. I am saying this as a CPF member who thinks that SF's are the "cat's meow".
> 
> With the price of gas, groceries, utilities, bridge fare, tolls, etc going up constantly, and our salaries, and pensions, not raising likewise, we just have to be more careful about how we spend our money. Many of us will make our lighting/accessory purchases, but fewer of them, and we will see how we can stretch the dollar. BST in the Market Place will be frequented more, as our buying power goes down, and as prices rise in the retail market. We will hold on to our past purchases and upgrade them instead of buying new.
> 
> ...



what's the price on a malkoff?
let's talk about qc when he can make lights as fast as sf can while keeping standards up.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 20, 2008)

E__WOK said:


> what's the price on a malkoff?
> let's talk about qc when he can make lights as fast as sf can while keeping standards up.



He's working on it. Malkoff's are selling for $49.50, on sale right now. QC is good. He is expanding into large scale production starting soon. I was making a $ comparison there. I too think that qc of Surefire lights is very good.

Bill


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## CM (Aug 23, 2008)

This price increase has caused me to go on a little binge buying of Surefires. Most of the price increases have been confirmed by other vendors.


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## JNewell (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm curious what it is about the E1B and E1L that makes the price increase for them so steep, compared to the other LED lights.


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## LumenMan (Aug 23, 2008)

JNewell said:


> I'm curious what it is about the E1B and E1L that makes the price increase for them so steep, compared to the other LED lights.


 
Good question ! I assume that Surefire did not want sales of the E2DL to suffer, being that the E1B offers similar performance for less $$ (at least until 09/01/08 when both lights will be priced the same)


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## sORe-EyEz (Aug 23, 2008)

both (E1B & E1L) being the smallest from Surefire's line-up in size makes for an ideal choice as gifts. :santa:


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## LumenMan (Aug 23, 2008)

sORe-EyEz said:


> both (E1B & E1L) being the smallest from Surefire's line-up in size makes for an ideal choice as gifts. :santa:


 

I've been a good boy so far this year. Can I get another one ? :kiss:


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## sORe-EyEz (Aug 23, 2008)

maybe i myself should bug someone to give me a Surefire before the price increases soon. make that 2, or even 3!


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## adirondackdestroyer (Aug 23, 2008)

I have never heard of a company raising the price of an item 35% without making any changes or improvements to it what so ever. Seems like a pretty bad business decision to me.


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## Size15's (Aug 23, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> I have never heard of a company raising the price of an item 35% without making any changes or improvements to it what so ever. Seems like a pretty bad business decision to me.


Time will tell whether it was the right thing for SureFire to do.


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## Lightraven (Aug 23, 2008)

Actually, raising prices is very common. A can of Coca Cola costs twice as much as it used to, but is still 12 ounces of the same drink.

Businesses have increasing expenses that they typically must pass along to the buyer. Others may simply increase their profit margins, but competition usually prevents that from getting too crazy.

I can't say if Surefire's profit margins will increase with these price increases, or just stay the same. Surefire has a lot more research and development costs than any flashlight manufacturer, so that's probably where a lot of your Surefire dollars go. I've never felt that Dr. Matthews and company are in it for the cash, though I don't doubt he has done well.


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## MattK (Aug 23, 2008)

The price increases are absolutely, unequivocally real and going into effect 9/1. Increases are most significant on LED lights from what I can see without doing a complex analysis. Those wanting an E1B and E1L, in particular, are advised to make their purchases without delay.

I know some may find price increases hard to accept but Surefire has not increased their pricing in 3 years. I'm sure a weakening dollar, higher costs of living and massively increased energy and transportation are having an effect on Surefire as they are on every other sector of the economy.



CM said:


> This price increase has caused me to go on a little binge buying of Surefires. Most of the price increases have been confirmed by other vendors.


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## CM (Aug 23, 2008)

MattK said:


> ...I know some may find price increases hard to accept but Surefire has not increased their pricing in 3 years...



Yep, they're due for one and I have zero objections on their decision. Despite my current binge, I'll still buy their lights in the future.


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## l2icel3all (Aug 23, 2008)

Yet I still await my apology from someone who shall remain unnamed......:nana:


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## Chrontius (Aug 23, 2008)

Bah. And I was hoping to see the P61L fit my budget. As is, I'll be sticking to buying consumables from them - bulbs and batteries. Maybe I'll get a Fenix, and if money should rain from heaven, I'll do what I planned and get a Lummi Ra or a Raw Twisty.

Maaaaaaybe a G2Z-NRA. Don't own an actual combatlight ... yet. And a Gladius is even worse than anything Surefire's got in that category


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## ampdude (Aug 23, 2008)

I don't see $122 American made hard anodized Sure-Fire C2's with a lifetime warranty as a big deal since so many people are willing to pay nearly $100 for smooth machined, non-knurled, cheap looking Chinese lights made by slave labor that all look basically the same. 

The current Sure-Fire LED lights don't really interest me anyways, except for the upcoming P61L drop-in.


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## Monocrom (Aug 24, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Time will tell whether it was the right thing for SureFire to do.


 
Clearly, there will be those who will hate the price increase. But many of those very same individuals will still continue to buy Surefire products. And Surefire knows this to be true. 

I know of an individual who bought an M3, was happy with it; and had plans to buy more SF models. Then a couple of months later, he learned of the price jump with no improvements. That was back in 2003. The only Surefire light he owns is an M3. But individuals like him are part of a very small minority. Will there be other folks who won't purchase any more SF products after this upcoming price jump? Certainly, there will be some. But once again, they'll be in the minority. Safe to say, Surefire will continue to turn a profit. 

I sometimes wonder what would happen if PK had an identical twin.... working at a rival company.


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## Monocrom (Aug 24, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> I have never heard of a company raising the price of an item 35% without making any changes or improvements to it what so ever. Seems like a pretty bad business decision to me.


 
Oh that's nothing. Forget about complete lights. The SF KX1 and KX2 are going from $66 to $109. Or a *65%* increase! :eeksign:


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## Size15's (Aug 24, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> I sometimes wonder what would happen if PK had an identical twin.... working at a rival company.


There isn't enough Soju for this to be possible... :devil:


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## Monocrom (Aug 24, 2008)

Size15's said:


> There isn't enough Soju for this to be possible... :devil:


 
Hmm..... We could just clone him. :huh:


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## LumenMan (Aug 24, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Hmm..... We could just clone him. :huh:


 

Good idea ! :naughty::huh:


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## E__WOK (Aug 24, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> I have never heard of a company raising the price of an item 35% without making any changes or improvements to it what so ever. Seems like a pretty bad business decision to me.



when will you be making flashlights? i hope pricing will never increase, with or without improvements.

who is forcing you to buy sf ghts?


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## E__WOK (Aug 24, 2008)

ampdude said:


> I don't see $122 American made hard anodized Sure-Fire C2's with a lifetime warranty as a big deal since so many people are willing to pay nearly $100 for smooth machined, non-knurled, cheap looking Chinese lights made by slave labor that all look basically the same.



i own a $130 6p as i lost the first one.


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## E__WOK (Aug 24, 2008)

Size15's said:


> There isn't enough Soju for this to be possible... :devil:



so true.


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## ampdude (Aug 24, 2008)

They have improved things. For one, the clicky switches are all much better now. Before I would never even have considered using the Z49 on my Z2 Combatlight, but now it is an excellent switch with the improvements. I've even noticed the improvement in the twisty I received on my new G2-OD. All nicely machined metal internals. It also appears to have a pyrex window now.


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## MattK (Aug 24, 2008)

Size15's said:


> There isn't enough Soju for this to be possible... :devil:



LOL - that stuff is awesome.


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## outersquare (Aug 25, 2008)

i sucked it up and bought a 6PDL or whatever it is


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## bullfrog (Aug 25, 2008)

Well I'm sure the lights themselves will be happy with this increase - maybe people will now think twice (myself included) before purchasing an extra Surefire on a whim, robbing it from hard use and destining it to shelf-queendom... :naughty:

But addicts are addicts and things will never change - the cost of cancer-sticks have increased ridiculously here in NYC yet people still buy em... my parents still have a hard time believing that people pay 5 bucks for a starbucks... etc.

I don't think Surefire will take a big enough hit for it to matter - the hardcore users/fanboys will still shell out the money and the people who are already happy with Fenix will still buy Fenix - Surefire is obviously not trying to capitalize on the Fenix market or even give it a thought.

Further, if the rumor is true and the military will be buying a crazy amount of new SF UA2s, this will most likely overshadow any hit SF would take on the private citizen end.

Also, for the people breaking into Surefire flashoholism, the classic basics (6p and G2) aren't increasing enough to really scare beginners away - would $4 stop you from buying a light? Not me. 

I'm sure a progressive, innovative and market leader such as Surefire would have thought these increases through ad nauseam, IMHO :twothumbs


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## Kestrel (Aug 25, 2008)

CM said:


> Yep, they're due for one and I have zero objections on their decision.


 
This is getting to be a long thread, so I'll be brief:
+1


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## BBL (Aug 26, 2008)

Surefire can charge any amount, as long as the DOD pays it. I think the prices are more 'lets charge as much as possible' and less 'lets charge what this light is worth'.


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Aug 26, 2008)

I remember the good old days when u could buy surefires online at great prices far below msrp. As much as I love their lights there is plenty of high quality competition now. They are gradually pricing themselves out of even niche users like us. But their continued innovation keeps me coming back. With led tech hitting a mild plateau it's allowed me to get into other hobbies. It's amazing how far a few hundred bucks go in a hobby like auto detailing and how quickly it goes in a hobby like guns!


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## Sgt. LED (Aug 26, 2008)

I for one am hitting up the market place for everything I want now before the prices go up.

You know that used item marketplace prices will be going up too!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Aug 26, 2008)

V8TOYTRUCK said:


> I remember the good old days when u could buy surefires online at great prices far below msrp. As much as I love their lights there is plenty of high quality competition now. They are gradually pricing themselves out of even niche users like us. But their continued innovation keeps me coming back. With led tech hitting a mild plateau it's allowed me to get into other hobbies. It's amazing how far a few hundred bucks go in a hobby like auto detailing and how quickly it goes in a hobby like guns!





> I remember the good old days when u could buy surefires online at great prices far below msrp.



Well, you can still do that. Ebay and the B/S/T are still around...


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Aug 26, 2008)

I am lucky enough to have an excellent source for new surefires at below eBay and Bst prices. Otherwise I would never pay msrp. Craigslist is also a great place for surefires I scored a m6 a year ago for 180 and a u2 for a liitle less. It's not often they show up but then again not too many are searching for high end lights so you have better odds than eBay


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## prof (Aug 26, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> I have never heard of a company raising the price of an item 35% without making any changes or improvements to it what so ever. Seems like a pretty bad business decision to me.



Gasoline? Oil? Bread?

Inflation...'nuff said.


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## Monocrom (Aug 26, 2008)

prof said:


> Gasoline? Oil? Bread?
> 
> Inflation...'nuff said.


 
Not quite.... If the reason really was inflation, why aren't other American flashlight companies raising prices on their lights by 30 - 35%. Or raising prices on replacement LED heads by as much as 65%.

Inova and Streamlight aren't doing it.


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## prof (Aug 26, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Not quite.... If the reason really was inflation, why aren't other American flashlight companies raising prices on their lights by 30 - 35%. Or raising prices on replacement LED heads by as much as 65%.
> 
> Inova and Streamlight aren't doing it.



yet...

I'm sure that energy costs are part of the issue.

Actually the 65% increase strikes me as marketing--force people to buy the whole light. I can see some of the increases, but that one seems unreasonable.


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## Kestrel (Aug 26, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> If the reason really was inflation, why aren't other American flashlight companies raising prices on their lights by 30 - 35%. [...] Inova and Streamlight aren't doing it.


 
I think that viable options for other companies to keep prices down as much as possible is to continue looking for the cheapest location for manufacture. Japan -> Korea -> China -> Vietnam, Thailand, etc. This really isn't an option for SureFire. Thank goodness.


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## sORe-EyEz (Aug 27, 2008)

i would like to believe manufacturing cost is just part of the cost. what about freight charges, import/export tax, fuel (moving goods round the globe), building a new factory (shifting operations overseas)? 

hope i am wrong on this one... :sweat:


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## Glen C (Aug 28, 2008)

Further to this thread I was reading today how Surefire are training 92% of their staff and the post training retention wage is $14.02 per hour. I don't know how much they pay their staff currently but that may represent an increase which needs to be factored in. They are able to use a state subsidy for $2.24 of the post retention wage, so that may give a clue, I really don't know. Those of you with a better knowledge of US labour rates may be able to advise.

Together with providing a return to the new investment bank shareholders, this may give some indication of why there are new price increases. There is some light at the end of the tunnel for flashaholics though, whilst the majority of their application seeking funding related to reducing the 12% employee turnover and increasing the 0.001% they spend on employee training, the big line was - The company must train its employees to become more efficient and productive, allowing workers to build more cost-competitive products better and faster.

I think that will be great news for all flashaholics, no matter what brand you like.


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## Monocrom (Aug 28, 2008)

Glen C said:


> {Surefire}
> 
> The company must train its employees to become more efficient and productive, allowing workers to build more cost-competitive products better and faster.


 
It's been my experience that whenever a quality product is built at a faster pace than usual, quality does not get better.

Better & Faster go together about as well as a stick of dynamite, and a lit match.


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## Glen C (Aug 28, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Better & Faster go together about as well as a stick of dynamite, and a lit match.



Great comment Monocrom. I actually missed the better and faster in my brain, I only saw more cost competitive products. Funny how we all see different things.


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## Monocrom (Aug 28, 2008)

Glen C said:


> Great comment Monocrom. I actually missed the better and faster in my brain, I only saw more cost competitive products. Funny how we all see different things.


 
So true.

I'm one of those "Glass is half empty" type of folks.... So I go turn on the tap.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 28, 2008)

Glen C, out here in California $14.00+ barely pays your mortgage or rent, so I think SF folks probably make much more than that.

Bill


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## cyberpunk (Aug 28, 2008)

It was always just a matter of time for me before I would end up purchasing an E1B. I just wasn't concerned with doing so any time soon.

I appreciate the heads-up on the 9/1/08 change! I figure, one would still be able to purchase pre-9/1 stock for the old pricing, after that date...but a $39.00 price increase on the E1B was just the nudge I needed. My new E1B is on me now as I type (as of this morning).

I wouldn't necessarily go out and buy this light simply because of a pending price increase, but for somebody like me, that was already going to purchase the light at some point...now is a good time to do so, apparently.


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## Glen C (Aug 28, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Glen C, out here in California $14.00+ barely pays your mortgage or rent, so I think SF folks probably make much more than that.
> 
> Bill




Bill, I thought the same, in Sydney you couldn't live on that either, I just assumed that must be a good wage in California as everyone talks about SF paying good wages. It is hard to tell what is a good wage in another country, I just read that Barrack Obama's brother lives on $1 a month! I wish I could 

Here is the link to the government website, it made interesting reading to me. It states that 570 of SF 617 employees will be on $14.02 after the training. It is a June 27, 2008 document so very current.

http://www.etp.ca.gov/packet/SureFire II 130 Revision.pdf


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## Monocrom (Aug 29, 2008)

Glen C said:


> It is hard to tell what is a good wage in another country, I just read that Barrack Obama's brother lives on $1 a month! I wish I could http://


 
Not trying to turn this thread into a political discussion. I believe that it's his half brother. And, $1 a month = Extreme poverty, no matter where you go.... Careful what you wish for.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 29, 2008)

Glen C said:


> Bill, I thought the same, in Sydney you couldn't live on that either, I just assumed that must be a good wage in California as everyone talks about SF paying good wages. It is hard to tell what is a good wage in another country, I just read that Barrack Obama's brother lives on $1 a month! I wish I could
> 
> Here is the link to the government website, it made interesting reading to me. It states that 570 of SF 617 employees will be on $14.02 after the training. It is a June 27, 2008 document so very current.
> 
> http://www.etp.ca.gov/packet/SureFire II 130 Revision.pdf



An interesting read, your provided link. Not sure I understand it. I would want employees of SF to make more money than $14.02/hr, unless these are brand new employees, with a good career ladder to latch onto. Possibly these are entry level staff that have completed high school as their only academic requirement for employment. Staff that are only involved with assembly, and other such activities. Not sure though, considering the training outline.

Bill


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## Glen C (Aug 29, 2008)

Bill it seems to refer to 570 of the 617 employees so I assume most employees there. It also refers to some having supervisor or manager in the title, but being overtime compensation eligible. It states they are existing employees. It is a big ask if they are being asked to build SF quality on minimum wage, so hopefully it gets topped up by overtime. I actually felt good when reading this the first time, it was pleasing to read SF was spending on employee education which I am a big believer in. Now understanding wage rates in California, I am not so warm inside. Still the good news is it seems they are doubling the training spend and many are learning computer skills which can only be a good thing.


Monocrom, good point, I would like to live on $1 in my present lifestyle  Not even close! I cant remember the country, it just struck me here was a guy going for arguably the top job in the world (whilst spending millions on his election) and his half brother was living like that, I couldn't think of two more polar opposites in one family.


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## Monocrom (Aug 29, 2008)

Glen C said:


> Monocrom, good point, I would like to live on $1 in my present lifestyle  Not even close! I cant remember the country, it just struck me here was a guy going for arguably the top job in the world (whilst spending millions on his election) and his half brother was living like that, I couldn't think of two more polar opposites in one family.


 
My general view on any family is that they should help each other out, when help is clearly needed. And that's all I'm going to say about that.


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## ampdude (Aug 29, 2008)

Yup, lets his half brother live in a hut for $1 a month while talking the way he talks about "economic justice" for the world and what not. Simply amazing. I guess it's okay, if it's someone else's money. (your tax dollars)


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## Size15's (Aug 29, 2008)

I don't come to CPF for politics discussion - please refrain from any further such discussion.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Aug 29, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I don't come to CPF for politics discussion - please refrain from any further such discussion.



Don't tell me you come here for the lights?! 

I personally don't know why this thread has continued.

Either:
A. Cost of materials has caused SF to increase prices.
B. PK wanted more money.
C. SF is an evil money grubbing company.
D. Law of supply and demand. SF increased prices to lower demand to meet obligations. 

All choices have been discussed adnauseum(sp?).


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## rtt (Aug 29, 2008)

The price that Surefire has set is the price! It does not matter what we think is the reason for the price increase. The Customer will be the final arbiter on whether Surefire’s price increase was the correct decision.


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## sORe-EyEz (Aug 30, 2008)

for a customer, a price increase is never a welcomed decision.


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## Monocrom (Aug 30, 2008)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> D. Law of supply and demand. SF increased prices to lower demand to meet obligations.


 
Am I alone in thinking that "D." makes no sense? :thinking:


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Aug 30, 2008)

A company has two choices to make a $100. It can sell 100 items at a dollar profit. A lot of work for that measly profit. Or they can sell one item at one hundred dollar profit. Hard to sell even one item.

If a company is interested in quality control and wants customer satisfaction, it would be in their interest to lean toward the $100 profit. Fewer items are easier to control their quality. i.e. they can slow down production to a point very few mistakes make it to the customer. With the higher profit, they can deal with even minor customer dissatisfaction. Would you fix/replace an item that cost you fifty dollars to make, but you only made a dollar profit, that wasn't a manufacturing defect? How many times can you do that and not red line?

If a company has a product that sells like hot cakes and they are constantly running out of stock. They can just build more. But how many more would cause a loss in quality control?

P.S. This subject (Thread Topic) has been done to death and I have no interest in continuing the discussion.


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## stitch_paradox (Aug 30, 2008)

SureFire Inflation?? Tell me what item hasn't inflated yet? Everything is going up.


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## Monocrom (Aug 30, 2008)

The cost of air is still the same as it was a year ago.


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## stitch_paradox (Aug 30, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> The cost of air is still the same as it was a year ago.


Actually no, the price of air in 3 gas station near me jumped .25 cents


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## generic808 (Aug 31, 2008)

The air is more polluted than it was a year ago, thus _taxing_ our lungs more :laughing:


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## LumenMan (Sep 1, 2008)

Just checked the Surefire site. It's official. The E1B is now $149.99 ! :sigh::huh:


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## PseudoFed (Sep 1, 2008)

*Holy crap. Check Surefire's Site for New Prices...*

...That's it. I knew they were coming thanks to CPF. But still, holy crap. Crap....


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## thermal guy (Sep 1, 2008)

They have there M2 at Price: $179.00 - $805.00 whats up with that! is that if you order all there accessories with it?


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## Size15's (Sep 1, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> They have there M2 at Price: $179.00 - $805.00 whats up with that! is that if you order all there accessories with it?


It appears to be a messed up line on the webpage because the 179.00 doesn't have a $ in front of it.


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## isneyk (Sep 1, 2008)

thanks to RiceBall, I got mine "just in time".:thumbsup:


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## PseudoFed (Sep 1, 2008)

Anyone notice the huge jump in cost of KX1/KX2 heads. From $66 to $109. Ouch. $43 increase is just over 65%. Wow.


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

PseudoFed said:


> Anyone notice the huge jump in cost of KX1/KX2 heads. From $66 to $109. Ouch. $43 increase is just over 65%. Wow.


 
Yup. Someone posted a link to the complete list of price increases, somewhere in this topic. 

65% is spot-on. 

What a crappy Labor Day gift.


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## PseudoFed (Sep 1, 2008)

I saw the table of new prices on page 3 I think, but it did not include parts/accessories. At least the batteries did not go up! I'm thinking surefire wants to encourage whole light purchases over upgrades while simultaeously making more on the upgrades for those with older lights. Maybe it is true that SF has not had a price increase in awhile, but I would rather see reasonable incremental increases over such large ones....


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

PseudoFed said:


> I saw the table of new prices on page 3 I think, but it did not include parts/accessories. At least the batteries did not go up!


 
As far as batteries go, I'd just buy Panasonic, Made in the USA, brand cells from 4sevens, in bulk; if Surefire increased prices on their cells. Or maybe Ray-O-vac brand CR123 cells (also Made in the USA) from Lighthound, again in bulk. Many folks will still buy Surefire lights at the increased prices. Surefire cells? I'm betting, not so much.

Hey, I found the link. It was actually a link in this topic, that led to a link in another topic, that led to the complete list of price increases.

(I feel like that guy from Tropic Thunder ~ "I'm the dude, playing the dude, disguised as another dude)."

Anyway, here you go!

LINK~
http://picasaweb.google.com/OpticsHQ/SureFirePriceChanges


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## superflytnt (Sep 1, 2008)

Before I bought my E1B (my first SF in close to a decade) I couldn't afford what I wanted, a multi-output SF LED. With the release of the dual-output E-series I finally found what I was looking for in a SF at a price that agreed with me. All I can say is that I'm glad I bought it when I did because if they had been released at these prices I wouldn't own one.


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 1, 2008)

Surefire has every right whatever they want. The quality and quantity of Surefire's competition continues to grow. Hopefully, that will help keep the Surefire prices from getting too high. The fact is, some people at CPF were buying Chinese flashlights that cost more that Surefire's older prices, and they were willing to pay more than the old Surefire price because they felt they were getting a better flashlight for the money.


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## Bobpuvel (Sep 1, 2008)

HOLY CRAP!!!..........I'm gettin a fenix...


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

Bobpuvel said:


> HOLY CRAP!!!..........I'm gettin a fenix...


 
.... Or shop for slightly used Surefires on B/S/T.


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## l2icel3all (Sep 2, 2008)

LumenMan said:


> Just checked the Surefire site. It's official. The E1B is now $149.99 ! :sigh::huh:



I will say this once more.... I am waiting for my apology hahahahaha.... I hope this is enough proof to prove my point and the reason why I started my thread....


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## kelmo (Sep 2, 2008)

Riceball you're "Ichiban!"

Man I'm glad I got my KX1 and KX2 already.

It looks like the E series incans didn't go up. The battery prices also remained stable.


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## LumenMan (Sep 2, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> I will say this once more.... I am waiting for my apology hahahahaha.... I hope this is enough proof to prove my point and the reason why I started my thread....


 

We all bow down to you ! :bow::bow::bow::bow:


Thanks for the heads up :thumbsup:


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## jonesy (Sep 3, 2008)

I feel like I got a deal now on buying my L1 for only $135. Sheesh.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 3, 2008)

There are still plenty of big online (Knife & Gun) retailers selling SF for old prices.


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## Monocrom (Sep 3, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> There are still plenty of big online (Knife & Gun) retailers selling SF for old prices.


 
Good point. The price increases aren't likely to be applied to Surefires that are already in stock on Dealer's shelves.


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## MattK (Sep 3, 2008)

No, dealers are required to change advertised prices effective immediately but I think that the price increase having falling on a holiday made it difficult.


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## Monocrom (Sep 3, 2008)

MattK said:


> No, dealers are required to change advertised prices effective immediately but I think that the price increase having falling on a holiday made it difficult.


 
Wow.... I stand corrected.

Looks like Surefire is doing a great job of keeping up their reputation for excellent-quality lights *and *odorous business practices. 

Like a used car salesman who tells you the price will increase if you need a day to think about it.... Only this time, it's actually true!

Surefire better keep on making excellent-quality lights. If that starts to slip, I seriously doubt that many folks will continue to tolerate this sort of thing from them.


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 3, 2008)

I wonder if the price increases have anything to do with the layoffs and delays. I would not be too offended by a price increase. They happen all the time. This one is more of a shock because it jumped up so much, instead of creeping up in price up like many other flashlights. Prices go up and down. I might wait to see, hoping that Surefire will have a sale later, just in case Surefire finds that they increased the price a little too quickly. The fact is, I doubt many people would have complained about these prices if they came out when the new two stage models did.


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## SureAddicted (Sep 3, 2008)

My local SF retailer hasn't raised prices. Still the same. I doubt he's the only one as well.
Up until a month ago he lowered the prices. 
Maybe being os has something to do with it, taxes etc.
If it's any consolation, the price of a backup continues to fall on ebay au. Last week $120, right now there's one for $107.50.


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## JNewell (Sep 3, 2008)

There is some kind of judgment going into the increases. No or almost no increases on incan products, mostly modest increases on 2 cell LED products, and highest increases on 1 cell LED products. I would have been interested to be a fly on the wall when these were discussed and decided.


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## StandardBattery (Sep 3, 2008)

I think they just simply increased the price on the products that currently have the highest sales volumes. Most of these products are being bought for individuals with institition money. The 46% increase on the E1B after it was just released, indicates this increase has nothing to do with manufacturing costs, but is tied to other business operations and profit forecasts. The same goes for the heads. It's a shame as the E1B is a nice light (nicer with Z68), but now for a value shopper it is priced out of the market. Most Surefire customers however are not value shoppers, so the increases may be good news for Surefire profits. 

The only problem I see is that new Inova and Olight products look very strong against Surefire for many of their customer's applications. Fenix now has a reputation and some products that also cut into some Surefire sales. It could be they are being hit harder than we know from competition and 3rd-Party dropins and are having to react.

LEOs, and other Emergency personel have a lot of options now, and they seem to be using them. I'm not up on where the Military or other government agencies are looking, but I would not be surprised if Surefire is losing market share there too. 

There is one hope we could have; with the introduction of some Surefire products into the regular retail channel it could be they want to advertise the price of the E1B and other smaller lights at inflated prices so the retail channel can do their typical markdown and sales promotions. An E1B at a gun shop or Lowes with a 30-50% off sticker just looks more tempting. 

Either way the E1B is now overpriced, making lego close to insane, and the M6 which was already available at some pretty good discounts seem pretty crazy at it's new list.


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## l2icel3all (Sep 3, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> My local SF retailer hasn't raised prices. Still the same. I doubt he's the only one as well.
> Up until a month ago he lowered the prices.
> Maybe being os has something to do with it, taxes etc.
> If it's any consolation, the price of a backup continues to fall on ebay au. Last week $120, right now there's one for $107.50.



I guess this is the horses mouth? :nana: Not to rub in or anything but I thought I'd start this thread to give you guys a heads up and you doubted me but I hope this proves my point.


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## SureAddicted (Sep 3, 2008)

Well Im sorry to see that the prices have risen for you guys over in the states. Over here in Aus, prices have declined and it's a welcome break for us aussies. The only thing I doubted is that SF prices would be going up in price worldwide, but I should of made that clear, I apologise for that.


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 3, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> I guess this is the horses mouth? :nana: Not to rub in or anything but I thought I'd start this thread to give you guys a heads up and you doubted me but I hope this proves my point.


I never doubted it.


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## l2icel3all (Sep 3, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> Well Im sorry to see that the prices have risen for you guys over in the states. Over here in Aus, prices have declined and it's a welcome break for us aussies. The only thing I doubted is that SF prices would be going up in price worldwide, but I should of made that clear, I apologise for that.



Don't worry about it man I'm just being childish. The prices overseas I have no details or know where to look for them but I started this thread to let all of CPF know about the rise whether was domestic or foreign it wasn't stated but the main point was to spread awareness. I'm glad a lot of you guys took my advice and purchased the lights you were thinking about. I know that saving any little bit of money helps especially when you in a hobby like this. If anything in the future comes up you guys will be the first on my list to be notified.


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## SureAddicted (Sep 4, 2008)

Ya did good l2icel3all:thumbsup:. I'm sure there are a lot of CPF who are gratefull for saving them some moola. Keep it up.
I'm just trying to decide if I need another E1B.


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## l2icel3all (Sep 4, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> Ya did good l2icel3all:thumbsup:. I'm sure there are a lot of CPF who are gratefull for saving them some moola. Keep it up.
> I'm just trying to decide if I need another E1B.



I say do it before you regret it after the price raises! This should be you =


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## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> There is one hope we could have; with the introduction of some Surefire products into the regular retail channel it could be they want to advertise the price of the E1B and other smaller lights at inflated prices so the retail channel can do their typical markdown and sales promotions. An E1B at a gun shop or Lowes with a 30-50% off sticker just looks more tempting.


 
Not likely. Surefire takes a very negative view of Authorized Dealers offering discounts.


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## Kestrel (Sep 4, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> Ya did good l2icel3all:thumbsup:. I'm sure there are a lot of CPF who are gratefull for saving them some moola.


 
+1 because of this. 2 more SF's for me and 5 for friends last month.  Thx,


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## StandardBattery (Sep 4, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Not likely. Surefire takes a very negative view of Authorized Dealers offering discounts.


I was suggesting that we could "hope" that they might be changing this policy, given that it does not work very well in the standard retail channels where more of their lights seem to be headed. I'm not holding my breath though, I hope they get a few M6 blasts in the face and see the light.


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## stevie-ca (Sep 4, 2008)

Thanks, I picked up a E2L and L1 before the increase.


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## bestcounsel (Sep 5, 2008)

This is the reason i always buy SF's used in great/good condition. 

There are plenty used SF's out there.


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## Monocrom (Sep 5, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> I was suggesting that we could "hope" that they might be changing this policy, given that it does not work very well in the standard retail channels where more of their lights seem to be headed. I'm not holding my breath though, I hope they get a few M6 blasts in the face and see the light.


 
I hear you. I used to work for a large, high-end, pen retail company a few years ago. They had stores all over America.... Along with a policy of _never _discounting. Which made no sense, considering that every single competitor would discount. (Except on MontBlanc pens. But MB has the same "no discount" policy as SF). 

The company went bankrupt. And we all saw it coming. The President restructured it under a new name with far fewer stores.

Difference is, Surefire will continue on; even if private sales take a huge hit. The civilian sector simply isn't their biggest customer base. Discounting will likely be a dream, at best.... Just like the dream that SF will one day introduce a holster for the incredibly popular M6.


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## isneyk (Sep 5, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Just like the dream that SF will one day introduce a holster for the incredibly popular M6.



make that for all their models & make the quality at par w maxpedition. grrr...


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## firebert (Sep 5, 2008)

I just picked up a E2DL the other week and my local gunstore for $115, wow im glad i bought it before they went up to 150

HOLY COW


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## Force Attuned (Sep 5, 2008)

SureAddicted said:


> Well Im sorry to see that the prices have risen for you guys over in the states. Over here in Aus, prices have declined and it's a welcome break for us aussies. The only thing I doubted is that SF prices would be going up in price worldwide, but I should of made that clear, I apologise for that.


 
Though it is still much cheaper for us to buy from the States...if that makes sense. The dropped Aussie prices are still way too expensive.


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## kavvika (Sep 6, 2008)

*Word of the Surefire price increase traveled too slow*

As soon as I heard of the Surefire price increase, I decided it was time to treat myself to a E1L, a light I've been wanting for quite some time now. I checked Amazon and all the prices had been raised...except for one: a NIB 2008 Surefire E1L. 2 modes of surefire EDC goodness, in the order of my preference (low then high), and you can't beat that knurling! I broke out those Amazon gift certificates that have been collecting dust for nearly two years and place my order. That didn't cover the entire amount, but thank you amazon for the option of paying via a checking account; pure genius!

What was the total _before_ coups, you might be wondering? $78.75 plus shipping!:wave:


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: Word of the Surefire price increase traveled too slow*



kavvika said:


> As soon as I heard of the Surefire price increase, I decided it was time to treat myself to a E1L, a light I've been wanting for quite some time now. I checked Amazon and all the prices had been raised...except for one: a NIB 2008 Surefire E1L. 2 modes of surefire EDC goodness, in the order of my preference (low then high), and you can't beat that knurling! I broke out those Amazon gift certificates that have been collecting dust for nearly two years and place my order. That didn't cover the entire amount, but thank you amazon for the option of paying via a checking account; pure genius!
> 
> What was the total _before_ coups, you might be wondering? $78.75 plus shipping!:wave:



You are aware of the Surefire inflation thread that has been in progress for a few weeks? Much discussion there, https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205040

Bill


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## kavvika (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: Word of the Surefire price increase traveled too slow*

Yeah, but I suppose it could be merged now that I read my original post again; I was originally trying to share my good find.

I believe the store does have some more available still.


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## bullfrog (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: Word of the Surefire price increase traveled too slow*

double post


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## bullfrog (Sep 6, 2008)

Have posted this in a few other places: it looks like for now lapolicegear.com still lists the E1B (and other SFs) at the older prices (plus free batteries and shipping), if anyone is still itching to pull the trigger.

I'm assuming its just a matter of time until they follow suit...


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## outersquare (Sep 7, 2008)

bass pro already jacked up prices


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 7, 2008)

outersquare said:


> bass pro already jacked up prices



Some brick and morter stores will hold off on price jumps until new inventory comes in, which they will have to pay more for. I respect that way of doing business. 

Bill


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## Monocrom (Sep 7, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> Have posted this in a few other places: it looks like for now lapolicegear.com still lists the E1B (and other SFs) at the older prices (plus free batteries and shipping), if anyone is still itching to pull the trigger.


 
Last time I checked, the free batteries they give away with orders were not Surefire brand, or even any type of Made in America CR123 cells. (Along with the tight Q.C. standards that go with them).

You get cheap, generic, Made in China CR123 cells.... The type that every now & then cause someone to post how their flashlight exploded. 

It's good that they haven't raised prices. But if they're still giving away _those _cells, buy your new Surefire from them and just put those free cells into the appropriate place.... in the garbage. :thumbsdow


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## Unclemonkey (Sep 7, 2008)

*Re: Word of the Surefire price increase traveled too slow*



bullfrog said:


> Looks like for now www.lapolicegear.com still lists the E1B (and other SFs) for the older prices (plus free batts and shipping)....
> 
> They are my second favorite SF retailer after batteryjunction.com.
> 
> Good luck!



I'm looking to get a e1b so I went to my favorite store(battery junction). They have it listed for $149.00. I then went to LA police gear and seen it for $110.00. What's going on?:shrug:


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## JNewell (Sep 7, 2008)

*Re: Word of the Surefire price increase traveled too slow*



Unclemonkey said:


> I'm looking to get a e1b so I went to my favorite store(battery junction). They have it listed for $149.00. I then went to LA police gear and seen it for $110.00. What's going on?:shrug:


 
Nothing, they just haven't marked up inventory on hand to the new prices.


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## JNewell (Sep 7, 2008)

*Re: Word of the Surefire price increase traveled too slow*



Bullzeyebill said:


> You are aware of the Surefire inflation thread that has been in progress for a few weeks? Much discussion there, https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205040
> 
> Bill


 
I believe the two have been merged! :tinfoil:


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 7, 2008)

*Re: Word of the Surefire price increase traveled too slow*



Unclemonkey said:


> I'm looking to get a e1b so I went to my favorite store(battery junction). They have it listed for $149.00. I then went to LA police gear and seen it for $110.00. What's going on?:shrug:



If you want it they will probably sell it at $110.00. Take it to check out and see what the price will be. If they have raised the price then cancel the sale. I checked a brick and mortar store, not in my area, and they have it for $110.00.

Bill


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## StandardBattery (Sep 7, 2008)

Very recently I got "Battery Station" cells with a SF light from LA Police Gear. I can't comment on them, but a quick search on the CPF battery form would probably provide more information than you ever wanted to know. I do wish that with SF lights they gave free SF batteries or the Rayovacs they carry. Just stay away from "Ultralast", my recent cheap batch of those has been soo bad... and they smell bad tooo...


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 7, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> Very recently I got "Battery Station" cells with a SF light from LA Police Gear. I can't comment on them, but a quick search on the CPF battery form would probably provide more information than you ever wanted to know. I do wish that with SF lights they gave free SF batteries or the Rayovacs they carry. Just stay away from "Ultralast", my recent cheap batch of those has been soo bad... and they smell bad tooo...


The Battery Station batteries are now made by an American manufacturer. Be sure to read the date on comments you Google for, so you will know if they are posting about the old batteries or the ones they sell now.


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## Monocrom (Sep 7, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> Very recently I got "Battery Station" cells with a SF light from LA Police Gear. I can't comment on them, but a quick search on the CPF battery form would probably provide more information than you ever wanted to know. I do wish that with SF lights they gave free SF batteries or the Rayovacs they carry. Just stay away from "Ultralast", my recent cheap batch of those has been soo bad... and they smell bad tooo...


 
Battery Station cells are currently Made in America. That wasn't always the case. It was one of those "My flashlight exploded" topics that prompted the change. The cells in the light were Made in China, Battery Station brand.

Made in America Battery Station cells are fine, and I have much respect for the man in charge at Battery Station for making the switch. But beware that some of the older, Made in China, cells could still be floating around. (Especially since CR123 cells have a 10 year shelf life).


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## bullfrog (Sep 7, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Last time I checked, the free batteries they give away with orders were not Surefire brand, or even any type of Made in America CR123 cells. (Along with the tight Q.C. standards that go with them).
> 
> You get cheap, generic, Made in China CR123 cells.... The type that every now & then cause someone to post how their flashlight exploded.
> 
> It's good that they haven't raised prices. But if they're still giving away _those _cells, buy your new Surefire from them and just put those free cells into the appropriate place.... in the garbage. :thumbsdow



I have only used SF brand in my lights thus far and don't plan on using anything else. But, I still keep the other "freebies" around for emergency situations as I feel that one can never have enough spare batteries...


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## RobertM (Sep 8, 2008)

I still can't believe how much the Surefire LED lights have increased in price, specifically the E1B and E2DL. I already have an E1B but keep debating whether or not to buy a spare one from LAPoliceGear while they still have them for $110.

Tough decision 

A big THANK YOU though to those let us know of the coming Surefire LED price increase before it happened! :twothumbs


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## Monocrom (Sep 8, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> I have only used SF brand in my lights thus far and don't plan on using anything else. But, I still keep the other "freebies" around for emergency situations as I feel that one can never have enough spare batteries...


 
Considering the spotty-at-best Q.C. of those freebies, I have to honestly disagree with you there.

If you might someday need to use them, please at least use them in a single cell CR123 light. That'll reduce the chances of something horrible happening. None of us want to see another thread about exploding flashlights.


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## Mercaptan (Sep 8, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Considering the spotty-at-best Q.C. of those freebies, I have to honestly disagree with you there.
> 
> If you might someday need to use them, please at least use them in a single cell CR123 light. That'll reduce the chances of something horrible happening. None of us want to see another thread about exploding flashlights.



They (Lapolicegear) give out Energizer 123s. They are good and safe performers. This is as of 1 month ago.


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## Monocrom (Sep 8, 2008)

Mercaptan said:


> They (Lapolicegear) give out Energizer 123s. They are good and safe performers. This is as of 1 month ago.


 
Good to see that they have recently switched over to better CR123 cells.


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## SimpleIsGood229 (Sep 8, 2008)

For what it's worth, both of my orders from L.A. Police Gear last December came with free Surefire 123's.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 8, 2008)

Always had good luck with LA police gear.:thumbsup:


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## H2Orower (Sep 8, 2008)

Speaking of LAPG, there's some funny stuff happening on their website right now. If you go to Surefire flashlights, then click Surefire LED flashlights, you'll see the pre-Sept. 1st prices under the pictures of all the lights. But, when you click on any light, the new higher price will come up (except for one model!).

*Here's the real interesting part*: When you first see the U2 Ultra, it says $279, but when you click it and add it to your shopping cart, you'll get $195! Boy, I wish it would do this for the K2 Kroma.

If you're considering the U2, here's a great opportunity!

http://www.lapolicegear.com/suu2diulledf.html


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## 300winmag (Sep 8, 2008)

Am I the only one that thinks Surefire lights are way over priced?
My $68 Fenix L2D CE out preforms my buddys $250 Surefire in lumens,throw and duration. I have dropped mine several times while on patrol and not even a scratch. But I can't drive over it with a tank.


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## Monocrom (Sep 8, 2008)

300winmag said:


> Am I the only one that thinks Surefire lights are way over priced?


 
No, you are not the only one. There are several CPFers who share your view. 




> My $68 Fenix L2D CE out preforms my buddys $250 Surefire in lumens,throw and duration. I have dropped mine several times while on patrol and not even a scratch. But I can't drive over it with a tank.


 
Please don't turn this into yet another Surefire vs. Fenix discussion. It's been done to death. Some of us actually enjoy buying lights from both brands, for different reasons.


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## StandardBattery (Sep 9, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> The Battery Station batteries are now made by an American manufacturer. Be sure to read the date on comments you Google for, so you will know if they are posting about the old batteries or the ones they sell now.


Maybe you were not really directing your comment at me, but just to be clear I was just commenting on my experience with LAPG which was August 7th, 2008. I was not the one making a comment on the quality of their FREE promotional batteries, just providing information that one might find useful in making a decision. 

I've been very happy with LAPG other than they often show items as instock when they are not, and some items such as their bags can change from one manufacturer to another with subtle quality or other changes being introduced. 

It looks like they frequently change which batteries they ship when they are part of the FREE battery promotion. I should have a new light from them tomorrow and it happens to be a SF, so I'll report back which batteries I receive.


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 9, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> Very recently I got "Battery Station" cells with a SF light from LA Police Gear. I can't comment on them, but a quick search on the CPF battery form would probably provide more information than you ever wanted to know. ...


No offense intended. I was referring to the selected quote above, but only to point out to anybody who might do a CPF Google search on Battery Station that the batteries they sell now are not the same as the ones they used to sell. If anybody does a search like that, they will find some hellfire and brimstone posts (both pro and con) that no longer apply. Again, no offense intended.


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## StandardBattery (Sep 9, 2008)

Update: I just got a light from LAPG today and I received a pile of Battery Station CR123A cells as part of their promotion. On the cells it says "Made in the U.S.A.", they are blue with white printing. 

Since it was SF light, I of course also got the standard SF batteries that SF always include with their lights.


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## mtb416 (Sep 10, 2008)

SureFire is the biggest name in flashlights. They couldn't care less as to whether we care about the price increase, which is ridiculous to me. SF is simply using their place in the market to make even more money. Anyone know SureFire's average profit margin? I would assume is it pretty high.


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## E__WOK (Sep 10, 2008)

mtb416 said:


> SureFire is the biggest name in flashlights. They couldn't care less as to whether we care about the price increase, which is ridiculous to me. SF is simply using their place in the market to make even more money. Anyone know SureFire's average profit margin? I would assume is it pretty high.



the american dream is to make money. why don't you want that to happen?


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## Monocrom (Sep 10, 2008)

E__WOK said:


> the american dream is to make money. why don't you want that to happen?


 
Some of us are a bit concerned about the way Surefire is going about making that money. Keep in mind that this is not their first price-hike with zero improvements to their products. (First was back in 2003).

Other flashlight companies don't do this sort of thing. You usually get gradual price increases that folks either don't notice, or (if they do) they're more understanding of the increase. (Cost of production or materials go up, naturally those costs are passed along to the consumer at small, incremental price increases).

When you have a company that raises prices on certain items by 30 - 35% or even 65%, that's just a slap in the face to every loyal customer. It really is.... Doesn't matter which company it is or what they make. It's just naked greed. And this is coming from someone with a small collection of Surefire lights.


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## mtb416 (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm in total agreement with you Monocrom. I think we can all agree that we (Americans) like to make money, but the fact is that SureFire implemented these price increases with ZERO improvements! Imagine going to your local Ford dealer to get an F-150. You see the truck you want, thinking it was around $20,000 when the salesman says, "it is now $26k". You respond, "so what are the improvements to jusitfy the price hike?"? He then replies, "nothing, it is in every way similar". After learning this information the would be customer, if he/she has any brains, choses to take their business elsewhere. In the auto industry you have countless choices, in flashlights, you have SureFire, and that's about it. You have many quality makers, but SureFire has a presence all their own. On the other hand, the auto industry has Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, M Benz, BMW, the list goes on. In other words, other industries like car and outdoor equipment for example have far more high quality choices among them.

When you have a single entity of such power raising prices, without justification, to me that is out right corporate greed. Raise prices for all I care, but give me an incentive to pay that new, higher price. 

If SureFire is reading I have one thing to say. You _will_ lose customers over this. I am sure you will see increased revenue, but raising prices effectively makes SureFire more of a niche company, which it already very much is. I can see this only as a limiting factor in the future. How about SF gets to work and releases the flashlights I now have been looking for for months in the catalog, like the Invictus and the aluminum Titan (I mean they are coming out right? ) I really like SF products, but their corporate team seems quite arrogant to me, another factor that is driving me away from them. My 2 cents.


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## tango44 (Sep 10, 2008)

mtb416 said:


> I'm in total agreement with you Monocrom. I think we can all agree that we (Americans) like to make money, but the fact is that SureFire implemented these price increases with ZERO improvements! Imagine going to your local Ford dealer to get an F-150. You see the truck you want, thinking it was around $20,000 when the salesman says, "it is now $26k". You respond, "so what are the improvements to jusitfy the price hike?"? He then replies, "nothing, it is in every way similar". After learning this information the would be customer, if he/she has any brains, choses to take their business elsewhere. In the auto industry you have countless choices, in flashlights, you have SureFire, and that's about it. You have many quality makers, but SureFire has a presence all their own. On the other hand, the auto industry has Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, M Benz, BMW, the list goes on. In other words, other industries like car and outdoor equipment for example have far more high quality choices among them.
> 
> When you have a single entity of such power raising prices, without justification, to me that is out right corporate greed. Raise prices for all I care, but give me an incentive to pay that new, higher price.
> 
> If SureFire is reading I have one thing to say. You _will_ lose customers over this. I am sure you will see increased revenue, but raising prices effectively makes SureFire more of a niche company, which it already very much is. I can see this only as a limiting factor in the future. How about SF gets to work and releases the flashlights I now have been looking for for months in the catalog, like the Invictus and the aluminum Titan (I mean they are coming out right? ) I really like SF products, but their corporate team seems quite arrogant to me, another factor that is driving me away from them. My 2 cents.



+1000 on this one!


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## Corey R. (Sep 10, 2008)

I think you price complainers arent realizing that manufacturing costs increase as the years go on. Metal prices, fuel and deleivery, insurance, Raises for employees, health benefit increases, property taxes on buildings and land ALL increase every year. 

Most of you reading this thread get a cost of living raise each year to combat inflation, right? 

In case you havent paid attention int he news, copper theft is way up because of its high value. Hell, I just read on CNN about how theives *stole a 120 ft radio tower to sell for scrap metal*.

Surefire needs to raise product prices in order to stay in business.


A good example is the Jon boat my dad bought in 1980 for $100. Jon boats havent changed in decades, but when he went to put it on craigslist, he got $300 for it, because the same jon boat now costs $600 new.


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## JNewell (Sep 10, 2008)

You don't need to introduce improvements in order to justify the increasess. Everything that involves metals, and everything that has to be or includes parts or materials that had to be shipped has gone up, in many cases steeply. Employee costs, such as health care (I assume SF provides some kind of company health insurance benefit), have gone and keep going up steeply. 

My view? I don't like the price increases, but hey, it's a free market. If the market won't pay, it will punish SF by not buying. SF has to know that they may lose customers; I'm sure they took that into account (literally) when they implemented the increases. If the market keeps buying, it's OK. It has to be, or we will look like the Soviet Union.

By the way, I don't think it's accurate to say that there have been no improvements. Just in the past year, the E1L, E2L and quite a few other lights have been upgraded, and others (like the E1B) introduced. All of that requires some R&D expense.


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## Lightraven (Sep 10, 2008)

I remember very clearly that Reese's Peanut Butter cups and other candy were 25 cents when I was a kid--a quarter. Now, they are what, 75 cents? Three times more for the exact same product with no improvements?

I don't blame anybody for being a little torqued over price increases on anything that we buy--gasoline, cars, houses, food, rent, etc. High dollar flashlights are rather discretionary though. 

If Surefire's new prices don't hold in the market, they will make less money, not make more. That's Economics 101. The competition for so-called tactical flashlights has never been greater. The demand would also seem to be higher than ever. Surefire isn't a monopoly. Customers have many, many alternatives.


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## mtb416 (Sep 10, 2008)

Corey, you are theoretically correct, but wages rarely keep up with inflation. Everyone knows that oil prices have had impacts on nearly all industries, but a 40% increase on a given flashlight with no upgrades does not seem like a price increase due to inflation. Why not slowly raise prices like all other manufacturers do? OF COURSE cost of doing business increases over time, but tell me where else you see single price increases of over 30% in the retail world, let alone an increase with no performance gains.

Another thing, I would not call us "complainers", just informed and loyal customers who want to be sure the company that profits off of US is being fair. It's the free market man, companies use it to their advantage, as should you. Of

JNewell: About the E1L, why not introduce the upgraded version with the new price? Is that not a fundamental problem with that argument?


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## asdalton (Sep 10, 2008)

mtb416 said:


> About the E1L, why not introduce the upgraded version with the new price? Is that not a fundamental problem with that argument?



You're operating on the premise that Surefire's timetables for new products and price changes have to make sense to an armchair observer. They don't have to. That doesn't mean that there's no good reason.

As others have said, if Surefire has increased their prices in a capricious or irrational way, then the buyers will punish them by, well, not buying.


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## mtb416 (Sep 10, 2008)

Obviously

I guess the customer does not come first to you. The corporate decisions once again trump customer loyalty and friendliness. This is my problem. I do not need economic/business advice. As I stated previously, I understand increasing prices, the manner in which it was done is my complaint.


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## Monocrom (Sep 11, 2008)

Corey R. said:


> Most of you reading this thread get a cost of living raise each year to combat inflation, right?


 
Nope! I wish I could say that I do. But I honestly don't. 

As for costs going up, that's a given. But please keep in mind that *no other company is doing the same as Surefire.*

None of them. Not Streamlight, not Inova, not Wolf-Eyes, not even the companies in China that blatantly rip off designs from other flashlight companies. Costs are going up for all of them. Aluminum is universal in the industry. And yet, you don't see price-hikes of 30 - 35% or even as much as 65% on flashlight heads from the _other _flashlight companies out there.

Now add to that the fact that Surefire has a general No Discount policy, and that this is not the first time that the company instituted a price-hike with zero improvements to their products. The best we can hope for is that it will be _at least _another 5 years before the company's 3rd price-hike with zero product-improvement.


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## E__WOK (Sep 11, 2008)

i'm looking at 3 of my hl-1 helmet lights, each of a different generation. they all cost the same. one does not have a toggle switch guard. another has an improved battery cover. the last has a disable cover. the z71 mount was also improved at no additional cost. one doesn't have the magnets.


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## JNewell (Sep 11, 2008)

> this is not the first time that the company instituted a price-hike with zero improvements to their products.


 
I've seen that in this thread several times, but a quick glance through the 2006, 2007 and 2008 catalog shows quite a number of improvements and upgrades. I don't think that's an accurate statement. There's nothing that says that price increases have to be timed precisely, down to the week or day of a new model or improvement in a current model.


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## Retinator (Sep 11, 2008)

As for Surefire not improving anything to justify the hikes, the KX1/2 heads etc are huge improvements over the older Lux's and were originally offered for the same price as their predecessors.

The greatest hikes are in the LED lineups however. 

The price difference between the incan/LED models are quite high,much higher than I would like to see personally.

Here's an idea......

Up until the LED revolution, Surefire's incans were pretty well matured, needing little to maintain/improve upon.

With LEDs, their R&D budget must be nuts. Every LED that comes out needs to have the optics/bezel/heat sinking redesigned almost from scratch. TIR is also probably much more expensive than reflectoring.

I'm not saying the hikes are justified (or not), but I think it's more than the cost of raw materials here. It may also be a sign of things to come, especially if others start spiking their prices.

Keeping up with LEDs and trying to work on HID must be a BIG undertaking.

I think it makes more sense in this case, that you be absolutely sure that the light will meet your needs and for the long term, then it's probably not so bad.


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## Monocrom (Sep 11, 2008)

JNewell said:


> I've seen that in this thread several times, but a quick glance through the 2006, 2007 and 2008 catalog shows quite a number of improvements and upgrades. I don't think that's an accurate statement. There's nothing that says that price increases have to be timed precisely, down to the week or day of a new model or improvement in a current model.


 
The E1B was introduced at $110. Now, a very short time later, it's $149. 

Gradual improvements and upgrades should be reflected in gradual price increases. That's how every other flashlight company does it. It's just not an industry-accepted practice to raise prices in such a way. As in, literally, overnight; at such high percentages.

65% increase for an LED head is ridiculous. Especially since there is indeed competition. I recently picked up a slightly used OpticsHQ E2 LED head. Even new, still a better bargain than what you can now get from Surefire. Not only is it bright as Hell with an amazing amount of throw and good sidespill, but the build-quality is what I'd honestly expect from a Surefire product. The andonizing doesn't match very well with an E-series body, but that's the only negative thing I can say about it. 

I think Surefire made a mistake with such a huge price-hike on LED heads. Their policy of pricing heads so close to the price of complete lights, might actually backfire this time. Rather than buying a complete light instead, those who want a good LED conversion for their E-series lights can just go to OpticsHQ.


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## imfrogman (Sep 11, 2008)

Ok, I think by now everybody gets your point. You do not like the increase.
How many times do you have to keep saying the same freaking thing!!!!




Monocrom said:


> The E1B was introduced at $110. Now, a very short time later, it's $149.
> 
> Gradual improvements and upgrades should be reflected in gradual price increases. That's how every other flashlight company does it. It's just not an industry-accepted practice to raise prices in such a way. As in, literally, overnight; at such high percentages.
> 
> ...


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## JNewell (Sep 11, 2008)

> I think Surefire made a mistake with such a huge price-hike on LED heads. Their policy of pricing heads so close to the price of complete lights, might actually backfire this time. Rather than buying a complete light instead, those who want a good LED conversion for their E-series lights can just go to OpticsHQ.


 
All I can say is that we live in a free market. If the market agrees with you, it will punish SureFire with lower sales and profits. If the market keeps buying, it's because they disagree with you and are willing to put up with the price increase. I have no horse in this race.


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## Retinator (Sep 11, 2008)

All this horse beating is going to tenderize a lot of dog food  I'd also say NO HORSE will finish this race, they all get beaten.

Back to topic..........

The pricing of the E1B/E1L/L1 was out of balance. In the 'old' days, it made sense.
The E1L was single level vs the L1, and the E1B wasn't out yet.

Since the 2-staging of the E1L and the intoduction of the E1B, the L1 was left out of place with the highest pricetag.

Maybe it was a difference in the interfaces I don't know, don't have any of them.

Electronically, the 3 are very similar seemingly only differing by their output lvls. Which leaves machining, finishing, and tailcap, since all 3 are TIR.

Now the E1B was likely intro'd cheaply (quit tossing things at me lol), to attract attention and start it off. The E1L, being 2 staged, now was the one that most warranted an increase. And as you can see, the L1 hasn't changed much. 

I'd say whether or not we like the prices, I think these 3 models are much better balanced in their prices. If the price ratio's remained, the E1L would detract from the other two, I think anyways.

And that's my 10 toes in the horses guts (again).


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 11, 2008)

JNewell said:


> All I can say is that we live in a free market. If the market agrees with you, it will punish SureFire with lower sales and profits. If the market keeps buying, it's because they disagree with you and are willing to put up with the price increase. I have no horse in this race.



Well said.

Bill


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## Monocrom (Sep 12, 2008)

JNewell said:


> .... I have no horse in this race.


 
Might have something to do with the fact that you beat the poor thing to death. 

(All in good fun).

The ironic thing is, I've already purchased every Surefire light I want that has been released to the Public. With the exception of needing a couple of new inca. lamps down the road, I'm good! 

Still, if Surefire used a "Direct Drive" approach to price increases, instead of going "Regulated;" it might not be so bad.


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## JNewell (Sep 12, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> The ironic thing is, I've already purchased every Surefire light I want that has been released to the Public. With the exception of needing a couple of new inca. lamps down the road, I'm good!


 
I find myself pretty much in that position, at least for now...


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## mtb416 (Sep 16, 2008)

After going to my local outdoors store and comparing SureFire's price/performance ratio to other brands I can say that they will be losing my business for awhile. This price increase makes it impossible for me to justify buying their lights. The old prices were certainly not low, but they were reasonable. This latest price hike has left a very sour taste in my mouth. Goodbye SureFire.


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## SnWnMe (Sep 20, 2008)

*SF is like the MS or Walmart of the light world.*

It's nice to beat on the big dog.

Nobody complains about pricier EDC lights like the Ra Clicky and Novatac 120s. Compared to their equivalents in the SF line (E1B and E1L), these lights (save the 120P) do not offer anything extraordinary yet command higher prices. SF has better size to output and runtimes balance. SF is pricier compared to CMFs (Chinese made flashlights) but hold their own in value compared to USMFs.


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## Elduke (Sep 21, 2008)

Riceball do you know if they will increase the price of the X300? I am thinking about purchasing one in the near future and I was wondering if I should wait or buy one now. Thanks in advance.


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## Monocrom (Sep 21, 2008)

Elduke said:


> Riceball do you know if they will increase the price of the X300? I am thinking about purchasing one in the near future and I was wondering if I should wait or buy one now. Thanks in advance.


 
:welcome:

Scroll down page 7 of this topic. One of my posts contains a link that will show you the entire price-hike list of Surefire products.


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## Elduke (Sep 21, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> :welcome:
> 
> Scroll down page 7 of this topic. One of my posts contains a link that will show you the entire price-hike list of Surefire products.


 
Thank you Monocrom for the welcome I have been lurking on the forums for a while. Thank you for the link as well. I am shocked that Surefire has to raise the prices but I will continue to purchase their products.


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## Welding Rod (Sep 21, 2008)

The magnitude of the price raise makes me a little uneasy about Surefire's future. 

I just don't see a drastic move like this likely from an economically healthy company.


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## Monocrom (Sep 21, 2008)

Elduke said:


> Thank you Monocrom for the welcome I have been lurking on the forums for a while. Thank you for the link as well.


 
Glad I could help you out.


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## Monocrom (Sep 22, 2008)

Suzanne said:


> it is difficult to believe that the price are increasing.. but there is no other option left instead of this.


 
I'm a bit confused. Do you work for Surefire? Are you certain that the company had no other options left but to increase prices? Please clarify. 

Also.... :welcome:


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## Monocrom (Sep 23, 2008)

rainmist said:


> Because the cost of materials are rising.


 
I've already responded to that point, in this thread. I don't believe it's as simple as that.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm happy as long as they don't mess with the incan prices.


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## Jeep olllllo (Sep 23, 2008)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> I have never heard of a company raising the price of an item 35% without making any changes or improvements to it what so ever. Seems like a pretty bad business decision to me.


 
I have to believe that the rise in cost of raw materials is killing them at surefire. steel/copper/aluminum have all gone ballistic over the last year.


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## chaoss (Sep 23, 2008)

Glad I bought an E1B before the hike .


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## DM51 (Sep 24, 2008)

Jeep olllllo said:


> I have to believe that the rise in cost of raw materials is killing them at surefire. steel/copper/aluminum have all gone ballistic over the last year.


Aluminium is ~$1.20 per lb, up from ~$1.00 this time last year. 

With a 20¢ per lb cost increase of the raw material, an M6 (weighing 9 oz) should cost an extra $0.11¢, and an E1E (1.75 oz) should cost an extra $0.02¢.
 
Yep, I can see why the prices had to rise...


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## f22shift (Sep 24, 2008)

i'm all for free market and competition. the only thing i am worried about (but i'm not sure about) is u.s. gov't agencies have a contract with surefire and tax payers have to foot the higher prices. 
then i cannot vote with my wallet and takes the free market aspect out of the equation.


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## Jeep olllllo (Sep 24, 2008)

DM51 said:


> Aluminium is ~$1.20 per lb, up from ~$1.00 this time last year.
> 
> With a 20¢ per lb cost increase of the raw material, an M6 (weighing 9 oz) should cost an extra $0.11¢, and an E1E (1.75 oz) should cost an extra $0.02¢.
> 
> Yep, I can see why the prices had to rise...


 

I think we are missing something....my post below mentioned a year ago, but I think we need to go deeper.

go here http://indexmundi.com/commodities/?commodity=aluminum&months=60 and you will see that aluminum is over 2.5 times higher than 5 years ago. Correct me if I am wrong, but surefire hasnt been raising prices every month for the last 5 years have they? I think they have "eaten" several raw material price hikes, and they are now making up for lost time/profits.

Another big thing to consider is the cost to deliver that same aluminum has tripled as well.

aluminum up 2.5x + shipping said aluminum up 3x = surefire price increase.

If surefire had been keeping up with the market and raising prices every time their costs went up.....we would all be complaining about the price increases every five days.


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 24, 2008)

It takes a a pound of aluminum to make about 34 beer cans. How can they afford it?


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## metlarules (Sep 25, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> It takes a a pound of aluminum to make about 34 beer cans. How can they afford it?


 Easy.......... Drink 34 beers and send them the empties.Tell them to make you a 6p and they can keep the rest.


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## SnWnMe (Sep 25, 2008)

f22shift said:


> i'm all for free market and competition. the only thing i am worried about (but i'm not sure about) is u.s. gov't agencies have a contract with surefire and tax payers have to foot the higher prices.
> then i cannot vote with my wallet and takes the free market aspect out of the equation.


 
I don't think they have a gov contract (otherwise they will make a marketing point out of that like Trijicon does). They do have an NSN meaning that we (the gov) can order them within our supply system and not have to use gov CC for open purchase in the civilian market. Heck I can order me two dozen Kromas and fifty L5s if I wanted to. But your point stands: Taxpayers foot the bill (thank you)


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## etc (Sep 25, 2008)

It's not SF inflation, it's inflation, period. Prices are not going up. The value of the "dollar" or Federal Reserve Note is going down. Say take Coke. It's not like the drink costs more to make than a year ago. 

In the last 5-7 years everything seems to have almost doubled in price: Food, gas, housing, education, precious metals like gold/silver and more stuff. 

The more FRNs the FRS prints, the less value each one has. Surefire got nothing to do with it. Just look at the price of milk or eggs in your local grocery store.


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## Knife Boy (Sep 25, 2008)

In my opinion for the price of an E1b to go from $110 to $149 (35% increase), something doesn't compute. In my mind that is quite a jump to swallow.


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## JNewell (Sep 25, 2008)

The thing that doesn't really compute to an outsider is the way the prices were increased (in other words, I agree with you). The incandescent lights went up little or not at all. The 2 cell LED lights went up in most cases by a small percentage. What went through the roof were the one cell LED lights. ???


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## Monocrom (Sep 26, 2008)

JNewell said:


> The thing that doesn't really compute to an outsider is the way the prices were increased (in other words, I agree with you). The incandescent lights went up little or not at all. The 2 cell LED lights went up in most cases by a small percentage. What went through the roof were the one cell LED lights. ???


 
The one cell LED lights stopped at the roof..... A couple of the LED _heads _were launched straight to the moon.


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## IcantC (Sep 26, 2008)

Damn this thread is still going?

BTW on that note, notice how Chineese lights have become more expensive as well? Some have jumped almost double, but I also think it is them knowing we will pay that amount.


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## SnWnMe (Sep 26, 2008)

Given the quality of Surefire, the reject rate and costs at the factory (manned by workers getting enough US wages to live in the present US economy so there you go) must be astounding. SF is more than happy to pass these costs on to their faithful of course


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## SnWnMe (Sep 26, 2008)

And again, we should compare SF's offerings against US made flashlights also. SF will probably come out cheaper.


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## Till (Sep 26, 2008)

What is meant by the 'reject rate'?


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## Art Vandelay (Sep 26, 2008)

SnWnMe said:


> And again, we should compare SF's offerings against US made flashlights also. SF will probably come out cheaper.



http://www.flashlightz.com/made_in_usa.php

Allsman Enterprises, LLC (a.k.a. AE Light)
Rogue River, Oregon

Inova (Emissive Energy Corp)
North Kingstown, Rhode Island

Maglite
Ontario, California

NovaTac
Carlsbad, California

Peak LED Solutions
Cave Creek, Arizona

Pelican
Torrance, California


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## JNewell (Sep 26, 2008)

Maybe it's time to point out that the overall cost of ownership of a SureFire light may be very low because of the combination of quality and their warranty. The 9 year old 6Z in my LH front pocket has had 2 replacement tailcaps, at least half a dozen replacement Lexan windows and two replacement bezels. Real 16x7 EDC and real ED use can be tough on a light. The only thing that's original is the body tube. 

I'm somewhat philosophical about SureFire inflation.


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## Monocrom (Sep 27, 2008)

JNewell said:


> Maybe it's time to point out that the overall cost of ownership of a SureFire light may be very low because of the combination of quality and their warranty. The 9 year old 6Z in my LH front pocket has had 2 replacement tailcaps, at least half a dozen replacement Lexan windows and two replacement bezels. Real 16x7 EDC and real ED use can be tough on a light. The only thing that's original is the body tube.
> 
> I'm somewhat philosophical about SureFire inflation.


 
On a light-hearted note, that reminds me of the story involving the farmer and his favorite hatchet. He tells a neighbor he's had the same hatchet for more years than he can remember. Neighbor asks why he doesn't just buy a new hatchet. Farmer responds by saying that it's his favorite.... even though he's had to replace the handle 3 times and the head twice.


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## metlarules (Sep 27, 2008)

I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread so if this was covered before forgive me. I don't have a problem so much with the cost of surefire flashlights as I do with the prices of their accessories.A new 6p cost $62.A clickie tailswitch cost $42 for the same flashlight. There is something definitely wrong there. Lamp assemblies cost $19/p60 and a whopping $29/p61. If I want the upgraded lamp assembly I have to pay 50% of the cost of the light!!!!! It doesn't cost $10 more to make a p61 vs. a p60.


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## JNewell (Sep 27, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> On a light-hearted note, that reminds me of the story involving the farmer and his favorite hatchet. He tells a neighbor he's had the same hatchet for more years than he can remember. Neighbor asks why he doesn't just buy a new hatchet. Farmer responds by saying that it's his favorite.... even though he's had to replace the handle 3 times and the head twice.


 

Yep, but no one replaced the farmer's handle w/o cost, I am guessing.  SF sent me all of these replacement parts as part of their customer service/warranty support.


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## JNewell (Sep 27, 2008)

metlarules said:


> I haven't read all 11 pages of this thread so if this was covered before forgive me. I don't have a problem so much with the cost of surefire flashlights as I do with the prices of their accessories.A new 6p cost $62.A clickie tailswitch cost $42 for the same flashlight. There is something definitely wrong there. Lamp assemblies cost $19/p60 and a whopping $29/p61. If I want the upgraded lamp assembly I have to pay 50% of the cost of the light!!!!! It doesn't cost $10 more to make a p61 vs. a p60.


 
I don't think that's unusual (relatively high accessory pricing). Check out replacement car performance parts. Another example is spare battery packs, etc. for amatuer radio transceivers. In both of those cases, as a general rule, accessory parts are disproportionately expensive. I agree with you on pricing, but it happens across all industries so whatever the reasons are, it isn'[t SF being excessive.


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## Federal LG (Dec 13, 2008)

JNewell said:


> Maybe it's time to point out that the overall cost of ownership of a SureFire light may be very low because of the combination of quality and their warranty. The 9 year old 6Z in my LH front pocket has had 2 replacement tailcaps, at least half a dozen replacement Lexan windows and two replacement bezels. Real 16x7 EDC and real ED use can be tough on a light. The only thing that's original is the body tube.
> 
> I'm somewhat philosophical about SureFire inflation.


 
Yeah... but remember that this "awesome lifetime warranty" is for americans only, in american territory. I lost the count of how many times people from CPF (and happened with me, too) waited to much time in the line to receive the new part. In my case, it was 9 months!

In some times, they´re still waiting for the replace till today...

Maybe Surefire could offer a price with the lifetime warranty, and a price without the lifetime warranty. I bet a lot of foreigners (like me) will choose the lower price, without the lifetime warranty (that doesn´t work for us, who live out of US, anyway).

I agree that Surefire quality is top notch (I love mines!), but there are similar options in the market nowadays, and you don´t have to sell your kidney to buy them.

These prices and it´s recent increase was unfair. 

Just my opinion...


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## american lockpicker (Dec 13, 2008)

I would(and I'm sure there are others) rather see a price increase than see Surefire move production overseas.


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## Size15's (Dec 13, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Yeah... but remember that this "awesome lifetime warranty" is for americans only, in american territory. I lost the count of how many times people from CPF (and happened with me, too) waited to much time in the line to receive the new part. In my case, it was 9 months!


As far as I'm aware - SureFire does not limit it's 'if it breaks, we will fix it' policy to America only.
My understanding is that SureFire has had difficulty producing replacement parts but that's more to do with production scheduling rather than not supporting international customers.
I guess also there are distributors in various international countries that have contracted some of the support functions that some customers are not taking advantage of for various reasons.


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## pipspeak (Dec 14, 2008)

Welding Rod said:


> The magnitude of the price raise makes me a little uneasy about Surefire's future.
> 
> I just don't see a drastic move like this likely from an economically healthy company.


 
Not sure surefire is going anywhere but IMO the 20%-30% increase for many products is utterly unjustified by "raw material prices". Commodity prices spiked in the summer. They are now either at rock bottom or heading there fast. It seems strange timing for a massive hike in prices of retail products with commodity prices plummeting and consumers flashing less cash. I can only assume surefire is relying on its law enforcement/military customers to keep buying or there is some chronic supply shortage forcing them to control inventory. 

But the thing that bugs me the most is that such a big hike in prices is just plain cynical. I've nothing against prices going up but this is such an inflation-busting, unreasonable hike that Surefire has lost my business and my respect for the foreseeable future.


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## jp2515 (Dec 14, 2008)

Surefire may have reasons and justifications why they raised the price. I may not agree with it so like others have said, if you don't like the company or their policies buy their products second hand. That is exactly what I did with my last several Surefires (got them all from the CPF Marketplace). Since the lights were purchased second hand, SF won't be seeing too much of my hard earned money.


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## seale_navy (Dec 14, 2008)

yeah 2nd hand option majority for sale in the US continent only.. not many international sale available there...


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## Federal LG (Dec 14, 2008)

Size15's said:


> As far as I'm aware - SureFire does not limit it's 'if it breaks, we will fix it' policy to America only.
> My understanding is that SureFire has had difficulty producing replacement parts but that's more to do with production scheduling rather than not supporting international customers.
> I guess also there are distributors in various international countries that have contracted some of the support functions that some customers are not taking advantage of for various reasons.


 
Respectfully, Al, this warranty policy looks like just marketing to *me*.
It´s hard to wait *9 months without the light* (at least I got it) for a replacement part. There are several threads here about customers who waited months and months, or didn´t receive the replacement part yet.

About the international distributors, unfortunately in my country (Brasil) we don´t have Surefire official dealers. Right now, if I want to buy one Surefire light, I can´t! I mean, I can buy anything in any place of the world, using my international credit card, but not a Surefire light! 

I only trust in my american dealers, but right now they are prohibited to sell me a SF light... 

Can you give me a reasonable fact to justify that? 
I mean, why I, living in Brasil, can´t buy just one light from a trustable american dealer?

I love SF lights... but sometimes their policy sucks. :shakehead

Good for Fenix, I guess...


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## Size15's (Dec 14, 2008)

Federal LG,
Your situation is not one I would want to be in.
I don't know what part you were waiting for but I doubt I'd have waited 9 months. 
SureFire doesn't make it very easy to be a SureFire-user from outside the USA and we internationals often have to be ingenious and resourceful when it comes to purchasing and supporting our SureFires. I've purchased several lights from Asian SureFire Dealers and used friends in the USA to forward on SureFires. There are plenty of threads on the various ways we can feed our SureFire habits.


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## pipspeak (Dec 14, 2008)

jp2515 said:


> Surefire may have reasons and justifications why they raised the price. I may not agree with it so like others have said, if you don't like the company or their policies buy their products second hand. That is exactly what I did with my last several Surefires (got them all from the CPF Marketplace). Since the lights were purchased second hand, SF won't be seeing too much of my hard earned money.


 
Funny you should say that... I'm planning on buying an E1B through a CPFMer for way less than new. 

I was sorta excited to get a UA2 but between the latest rip-off price hikes and the lack of a firm release date six months after they announced the darn thing it looks like I'll take a pass.


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## Federal LG (Dec 15, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Federal LG,
> Your situation is not one I would want to be in.
> I don't know what part you were waiting for but I doubt I'd have waited 9 months.
> SureFire doesn't make it very easy to be a SureFire-user from outside the USA and we internationals often have to be ingenious and resourceful when it comes to purchasing and supporting our SureFires. I've purchased several lights from Asian SureFire Dealers and used friends in the USA to forward on SureFires. There are plenty of threads on the various ways we can feed our SureFire habits.



Al... do you know the reason why Surefire doesn´t allow american based dealers sell me one Surefire light, via internet ?

I mean, we don´t have official SF dealers in Brasil to be protected, and I guess we don´t have them in the countries around Brasil either...


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## Size15's (Dec 15, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> Al... do you know the reason why Surefire doesn´t allow american based dealers sell me one Surefire light, via internet ?
> 
> I mean, we don´t have official SF dealers in Brasil to be protected, and I guess we don´t have them in the countries around Brasil either...


From what I gather SureFire wants to protect the dealers and retailers it has around the world from being undercut by US Dealers. SureFire also wants to develop and grow the dealer networks such that they can better support the customers in each country/region.

Have you called SureFire to find out whether there are any dealers, perhaps in other South American countries that can legitimately sell you what you need?


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## Federal LG (Dec 15, 2008)

Size15's said:


> From what I gather SureFire wants to protect the dealers and retailers it has around the world from being undercut by US Dealers. SureFire also wants to develop and grow the dealer networks such that they can better support the customers in each country/region.
> 
> Have you called SureFire to find out whether there are any dealers, perhaps in other South American countries that can legitimately sell you what you need?



No, I haven´t, yet. 
But you gave an excelent idea! 
I´ll call them, to see if there is someone around here...

Thanks for the reply. :thumbsup:


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## LED61 (Dec 15, 2008)

Some companies, particularly those that have fixed contracts or reasonable assurance of selling out production no matter the price, just adopt a price policy linked to yearly inflation or currency depreciation or both. I can think of a big chemical/agricultural product company that does just that, every year. It does not really matter if their costs have gone up or not.
The only thing that will make these companies change policy is a major shift in demand. We may just be in the brink of this for flashlights, and who knows, maybe for this chemical company as well.


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## pipspeak (Dec 15, 2008)

LED61 said:


> Some companies, particularly those that have fixed contracts or reasonable assurance of selling out production no matter the price, just adopt a price policy linked to yearly inflation or currency depreciation or both.


 
I hear you, but 30% inflation? A 30% swing in currencies? My biggest gripe is how some prices have jumped so much they make no sense. Take the E1B -- it now costs $149, exactly the same as the E2DL. I'd consider the E2DL as being worth a significant premium of the pair, which makes me think Surefire's hike on the E1B is just plain cynical. But good luck to them... if they can keep selling a bunch of 1-cell lights at that price they must be happy!


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## Monocrom (Dec 15, 2008)

pipspeak said:


> I hear you, but 30% inflation? A 30% swing in currencies? My biggest gripe is how some prices have jumped so much they make no sense. Take the E1B -- it now costs $149, exactly the same as the E2DL. I'd consider the E2DL as being worth a significant premium of the pair, which makes me think Surefire's hike on the E1B is just plain cynical. But good luck to them... if they can keep selling a bunch of 1-cell lights at that price they must be happy!


 
30% is quite mild.... compared to the increase of their LED heads that are packaged to be sold seperately.


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## sORe-EyEz (Dec 16, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> 30% is quite mild.... compared to the increase of their LED heads that are packaged to be sold seperately.


 
is it because the E-series heads are much thicker than their connecting bodies? :shrug:

safe to say their heads have more "throw"?.. :nana:


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## Monocrom (Dec 16, 2008)

sORe-EyEz said:


> is it because the E-series heads are much thicker than their connecting bodies? :shrug:


 
More like, that's the price Surefire decided on. To be honest, I have no clue how they came up with those percentage increases. As for me, I won't pay that much for a head. The TLS Q5 LED head for Surefire E-series sold through Optics HQ is an excellent alternative. (Less expensive too). One is currently attached to my E2E body and tailcap. Excellent combination of throw and flood at about 220 lumens.

If I want an even brighter LED Surefire E2E conversion, I might as well spend a bit more than what Surefire wants for their LED heads, and just have Milky convert my E2E into a real powerhouse.



> safe to say their heads have more "throw"?.. :nana:


 
Actually, yes. 

The KX2C especially is geared for thow. If you want some more flood, the Optics HQ head is a better solution. 

If you really want a KX2C, you can either buy it for $135.oo or buy a complete Surefire light (E2DL) for just $14 more. It's the same, exact head; only with teeth.... Yup, just $14 more. :thinking:

I guess the math and the figures make sense to Surefire's accountants. :shrug:


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## sORe-EyEz (Dec 16, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> More like, that's the price Surefire decided on. To be honest, I have no clue how they came up with those percentage increases. As for me, I won't pay that much for a head.
> 
> Actually, yes.
> 
> ...


 
oh no, i am wondering if i am paying too much for a tailcap replacement at SGD$50. 

maybe i should just get the E1E instead?

USD$14 for spare tube & tailcap looks like a real bargain. aluminium 1s at that! lol...


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## l2icel3all (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm surprised my thread is still going. This is crazy.


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## Size15's (Dec 16, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> I'm surprised my thread is still going. This is crazy.


:welcome:


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## Monocrom (Dec 16, 2008)

l2icel3all said:


> I'm surprised my thread is still going. This is crazy.


 
Currently, two most popular threads are this one; and the Surefire sues PentagonLights thread.

Your thread is popular, deal with it.


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## Federal LG (Dec 16, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Currently, two most popular threads are this one; and the Surefire sues PentagonLights thread.
> 
> Your thread is popular, deal with it.



Maybe it´s not just the thread itself, but the theme too...

Maybe, most of the people don´t like the unreasonable Surefire inflation. :shakehead

So sad!


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## eshishlo (Dec 17, 2008)

If you compare current prices to prices in 2001 of the G2 and the 6P. You can now purchase the G2 for $20 less, and the 6P for $18 less than the price in 2001. The Z2 is only $7 more than in 2001. True the LED lights have jumped up significantly, but many companies do that as well. The initial price of my Palm based phone was $50 when it came out, then jumped to $200 in about 1 month.


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## JNewell (Dec 17, 2008)

Yes, and you haven't even adjusted for inflation. I'm not going to take the time to run the numbers, but the increases would be lower if you adjust for changes in the CPI.



eshishlo said:


> If you compare current prices to prices in 2001 of the G2 and the 6P. You can now purchase the G2 for $20 less, and the 6P for $18 less than the price in 2001. The Z2 is only $7 more than in 2001. True the LED lights have jumped up significantly, but many companies do that as well. The initial price of my Palm based phone was $50 when it came out, then jumped to $200 in about 1 month.


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## Bushman5 (Mar 22, 2009)

hey, you Americans have great prices on Surefire......come across the border and the prices double, and i aint talking just exchange ratewise....:shakehead


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## Federal LG (Mar 22, 2009)

Bushman5 said:


> hey, you Americans have great prices on Surefire......come across the border and the prices double, and i aint talking just exchange ratewise....:shakehead



Yeah... here in Brasil a brand new Surefire E1B Backup costs more than *250 dollars*, in a SF official dealer!!


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## 325addict (Mar 22, 2009)

This is a pity for me as well... I only have 3 sureFires now, and I want at least six... with these prices, it may also take six years before I have them :mecry:

Timmo.


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## asdalton (Mar 23, 2009)

Again, I recommend that people check eBay periodically for dealers who will ship Surefire lights internationally. Many are selling below the US official advertised price, too.


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## bloke-gear.com (Mar 24, 2009)

The price increases are very sad indeed. I'm just glad I got pretty much all my Surefires at the old prices. Couldn't come at a worse time either with the bad economy and all.


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## StandardBattery (Mar 25, 2009)

l2icel3all said:


> I'm surprised my thread is still going. This is crazy.


 
Sort of like the AIG scandle, something to rage about until we can all relax again. I'm sure SF would wish it would just die.

But really look at the price of the E1B; I'm happy a lot of people have just not rolled over and accepted it. Solarforce and the new Malkoff MD2 seem to be benifiting though. If they were smart they would have offered the Z-68 tail cap as an option to calm the waters. They could have made a silver-Z68 and also offered the low-high UI option they were advertising. They need to provide options to increase their volume, not increase their prices. However only when they figure this out for themselves and that can stamp 'invented by SF and made in USA' on the idea are they likely to run with it. Don't they just kind of remind you of IBM?


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