# Skyline II by Solarforce; Driving Impressions Ø HEAVY GRAPHICS Ø



## TechnoBill (Jan 16, 2010)

TBtO ~ START HTML CODE ~TBtO … … … Skyline II by Solarforce; Driving Impressions Ø HEAVY GRAPHICS Ø 

[EDITORIAL NOTE: Footnotes will follow the format "FNxx:" where "xx" is the Footnote number, with the footnotes being listed at the bottom of Post #1]
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The following *Driving Impression* is based on a Solarforce Skyline II provided, *gratis*, by *International Trading Company*, hereafter abbreviated as "ITC". http://stores.shop.ebay.com/INTERNATIONAL-TRADING-COMPANY__W0QQ_armrsZ1

*The Solarforce Skyline II is currently available at International Trading Company* for U.S. $69.99 with Free Shipping.





*The Solarforce Skyline II is currently available at SBFlashlights* for U.S. $69.99. 'Jake25' is a Candle Power Forums _Authorized Dealer._




We'll start with a quick visual of the Skyline II.
*FN00:*{Apologies for the Dust, Dog Hair, etc. ......}






The manufacturer's specifications are listed below. I _have_ chosen to post the manufacturer's estimated lumens (non specific whether 'at emitter' or 'OTF') and runtimes as the lumens numbers will give a general idea of brightness, and the issue has been covered extensively and professionally by *MrGman*. Those who have been on board for some time are already aware of the marketing numbers vs. what a customer can reasonably expect as regards performance from a Solarforce product. Solarforce's are not the _extremely_ conservative numbers characteristic of Surefire for those of us new to CPF, but who are 'old hands' with the _*"Yes! I'd trust my life to Surefire tools!"*_ tactical rifle, shotgun, and handheld incandescents, and more recent Surefire LEDs such as the peerless X300 and X400, nor are the Solarforce numbers as conservative as the 'newer' _rather_ conservative numbers schema to which Surefire has migrated.

If you're new to the *'Need To Know' underground, or at least in the garage or basement thereof, Hobbyist Cabal* of Flashaholism, *MrGman* has lucidly and directly addressed some of the opinions and suppositions muddying the waters. His comments appear in the following thread: How I Learned To Quit Worrying And Love The Light.

Solarforce Skyline II Manufacturer Specifications
- Uses a CREE XR-E (WC-R2) LED
- Aluminum alloy reflector with smooth reflective surface for extreme lighting range up to 200m
- Micro processor for various output modes and adjustable output levels with current regulation
*- Protective circuit design for preventing over-discharging* and reversed polarity of batteries
- High strength aluminum alloy body with Mil-spec hard-anodized finish
- Stainless steel bezel
- Strengthened ultra-clear glass lens
- Input voltage: 2.7V - 6.0V (18650 x 1 pcs or CR123A x 2pcs)
- Working temperature: -40 to 60 deg. Celsius
- Waterproof capability: IPX-8 standard
- Runtime* with
… … *•* 18650 battery x 1, at
… … … … • Approx. 200 lumens: 2.5 hour
… … … … • Approx. 1 lumen: 250 hours
… … *•* CR123A battery x 2, at
… … … … • Approx. 260 lumens: 2 hours
… … … … • Approx. 1 lumens: 120 hours
- Operation (when the flashlight is turned off):
… … • Press once and release (< 0.5 second): turn on
… … • Press constantly (> 0.5 second): output adjusting mode from 100% to 5% (release to stay). Press constantly again to activate the output adjusting mode from 5% to 100%
… … • Press twice and release (< 0.5 second): strobe mode
- Length, Head Diameter, Body Diameter: 130mm, 33.7mm, 25.4mm
- Weight: 124g (without battery)

Initial Impressions: Obviously intended as a complementary piece, albeit in a smaller package, to the impressive Skyline, I was immediately struck by the _very_ compact size of the Skyline II, it could easily fit in a "gear guy" shirt pocket or traditional pants pocket, but I was also impressed by the striking shallow "heat sinking" perpendicular to the body as seen in the photo above. Whether the user chooses to use the concave or convex portions of the "heat sinking", they definitely add utility as regards enhanced purchase (grip) and presumably offer some degree of heat extraction. The visual contrast to the square knurling on the body draws admiration and comments from the great unwashed variously referred to as 'Austrolopithecine Knuckle Draggers' or simply 'Non-Flashaholics.' Very classy looking piece and the smooth band around the tail cap where it meets the body produces a very well integrated appearance.

Coming to Flashaholism from a decidedly different perspective where handheld flashlights being small were of minimal importance, size only being a consideration as regards inherent weight on weapon mounted lights, little lights do not automatically trip my trigger, but my second thought was that the Skyline II's size, appearance, and function would make it a break out hit with many of the CPF customer base. Speaking purely subjectively, this is simply one darn nice little light with some impressive construction attributes to be mentioned later.

Contrary to the Manufacturer's Specifications, the Skyline II from tip of bezel to end of tailcap is 138 mm long, the head section is 50 mm long (excluding the bezel), and the head diameter 33 mm. Such would hardly allow the "Fun House Mirror" of the original Skyline that seems to recede back into another space~time continuum Skyline Crystal Ball/Reflector. But how well Solarforce finessed the throw out of this smaller package will be seen below in the outdoor 50 yard beam shot photos alongside the Skyline, and in a second post the L2P L2P Review.

A rough external measurement shows the reflector to be 'roughly' 27 mm deep by 25 mm wide just prior to the bezel. Considerably less than the 60 mm length and 41 mm diameter of the Skyline.




*FN00:* Again, I let the dust and lint be, as it was the lesser of two evils. Filled with shame am I :sigh:.

*FN01:* Before we get to the Outside '50 Yards of Truth' or, at the very least, '50 True Yards of Outside', let's take a closer look at the bits and pieces of this Devastator of Darkness shall we?
From left to right we have the Skyline II head with nice script style nomenclature, the reflector, the body and light engine, the tailcap, and a Solarforce 18650 Protected rechargeable Li-Ion. 




The tailcap is clearly marked with the Maximum Voltage of 6 Volts, indicating that one 18650 Li-Ion or two Primary CR123As are viable options. _*Of particular note*_ is the air tight seal the head forms as it is affixed to the body. In photos below we will see that the head travels a considerable distance when being seated before contacting the threads. As the dual O-Rings are being passed by the seating of the head, a considerable amount of air pressure builds up between the O-Rings, the inner portion of the lens, and the head of the light engine. If the threads are not engaged and the assembly laid down, the pressure will very gradually push the head back up away from the threads and eventually, with an audible "Pop", the head will gently eject itself from the body. Virtually no air passes the dual O-Rings nor through the light engine or the glass lens and bezel. Based on this observation, the Skyline II's water fastness seems beyond doubt :thumbsup:

*FN01:* A similar view from slightly above axis:





A thumbnail to a high resolution photo of the light engine: {Click on the thumbnail then click on the Magnifying Glass



to get the full scale photo}




'Glamor Shot' of LED engine. {Click on the thumbnail then click on the Magnifying Glass



to get the full scale photo}




I know I've mentioned this before, but *I REALLY like the design of the head!* _{And remember this is from a guy who begrudges the visibility of 635nm targeting lasers as they compromise one's position. In TechnoBill World, visible light serves only one purpose: CQB to positively ID perp, blind him, bolt to another point of cover, target with 835 nm, engage, and get on with writing the AAR reports (or help your mates hide the body )}_





An interior shot of the head. Note the lengthy portion of unthreaded inner diameter against which the double 0-Rings seat. The white artifacts on the treads are again due to the _LoserUser_ reviewer.





*Vertical Frame of Reference Items:*
Left to Right; Surefire *SF123A* 3v Primary, Sakar *AAA* 1.25v 1000mAh NiMH Rechargeable, Duracell Alkaline *AA* 1.5v Primary, Solarforce Li-Ion Protected *18650* 2400mAh Rechargeable, *Crayola* (Ferrari Red), Solarforce *L2i*, *English/Metric* Measure, Solarforce *L2p*, Fenix *P3D Premium Q5* w/ 'Fenix Store Special' 3 x CR123A optional body, Surefire *C3 Centurion*, *Solarforce Skyline II*, Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 Head, Solarforce *L2r*, *Solarforce Skyline*, *Pentagonlight 635 nm* 28 Lumens (Diffused) low signature, Insight H2x *Typhoon* w/ Cabela's cover, *Surefire M6*, Solarforce *Masterpiece*.





*Horizontal Frame of Reference Items:*
Left to Right; Surefire *SF123A* 3v Primary, Sakar *AAA* 1.25v 1000mAh NiMH Rechargeable, Duracell Alkaline *AA* 1.5v Primary, Solarforce Li-Ion Protected *18650* 2400mAh Rechargeable, *Crayola* (Ferrari Red), Solarforce *L2i*, *English/Metric* Measure, Solarforce *L2p*, Fenix *P3D Premium Q5* w/ 'Fenix Store Special' 3 x CR123A optional body, Surefire *C3 Centurion*, *Solarforce Skyline II*, Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 Head, Solarforce *L2r*, *Solarforce Skyline*, *Pentagonlight 635 nm* 28 Lumens (Diffused) low signature, Insight H2x *Typhoon* w/ Cabela's cover, *Surefire M6*, Truncated Solarforce *Masterpiece*.





*Horizontal Frame of Reference Items:*
Left to Right; Solarforce *L2p*, *Solarforce Skyline II*, Solarforce *L2r*, *Solarforce Skyline*, Solarforce *Masterpiece*.















*FN02:* 50 Yard Outdoor Beam Pattern Shots
… … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … L2P Review
… … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … 6 Second Exposure … … … *Skyline* on Left ~ *Skyline II* on right … *Skyline, L2P, Skyline II*
… … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … … 

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*Skyline II*: 5 Second Exposure … … … … *Skyline*: 5 Second Exposure … … … *Skyline* on Left ~ *Skyline II* on right … *Skyline, L2P, Skyline II*


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*Skyline II*: 4 Second Exposure … … … … *Skyline*: 4 Second Exposure … … … *Skyline* on Left ~ *Skyline II* on right … *Skyline, L2P, Skyline II*


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*Skyline II*: 3.2 Second Exposure … … … … *Skyline*: 3.2 Second Exposure … … … *Skyline* on Left ~ *Skyline II* on right … *Skyline, L2P, Skyline II*


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*Skyline II*: 2 Second Exposure … … … … *Skyline*: 2 Second Exposure … … … *Skyline* on Left ~ *Skyline II* on right … *Skyline, L2P, Skyline II*


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*Skyline II*: 1 Second Exposure … … … … *Skyline*: 1 Second Exposure … … … *Skyline* on Left ~ *Skyline II* on right … *Skyline, L2P, Skyline II*


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For the best one to one comparison I suggest selecting a shutter speed, 3.2 seconds is fairly illustrative, then open all three thumbnails in the series, the Skyline II, the Skyline, and the third of the sets with the Skyline and Skyline II. Click the magnifying glass to open the photos full screen, dispose of the Image Shack screens then click between the three photos all taken at the same distance and camera settings.

At fifty yards, the Skyline II is beginning to lose cohesion of its hot spot while the Skyline is tighter and ready to be backed off to 75 yards for another set of photos. Beyond fifty yards it is clear the Skyline II will be moving out of its element while the Skyline is still standing strong. The deep "fun house mirror" of the Skyline clearly justifies it's heft, and front heavy balance. Quite simply it works, and works well. But for a flashlight one can carry unobtrusively, the Skyline II is a great little thrower for exploring the menace the dogs perceive in the back yard at night, and quite adequate for making a positive ID, and clarifying to any intruders that they'd best hustle back from whence they came and return no more.

If a fishing vest, 5.11 vest, or multi pocket utility garment is part of your daily uniform, the Skyline is a slam dunk. If, however, you travel under the radar, the Skyline II is an affordable, easily concealed tool to scan a parking lot before exiting a building, and with a simple interface identical to the Skyline Skyline Crystal Ball/Reflector, it would make a great gift for the Lady in your life (assuming she's not already packing a 1911 with an X400 :naughty:.)



 FOOTNOTES:

*FN00:*
The Skyline II, as well as other review items, *arrive from Solarforce FREE OF DUST and/or MANUFACTURING DEBRIS!*
ALL CONTAMINANTS appearing in photos have been *introduced by TechnoBill* The Obtuse. 
{Apologies for the Dust, Dog Hair, etc. Our German Shepherd Dog 'Puppy' is 9½ MONTHS old, 85 pounds the last time we weighed him and is insatiably curious, has a _Warm Fusion_ [101ºF] energy source, with _Testosterone Afterburners_ coming online. I've given up on keeping subject matter dust free. My goals are to get pictures of flashlights, rather than snout, teeth, GSD nose, and also hopefully keep the flashlights from becoming chew toys }

*FN01:* I did not attempt to remove the bezel from the head, or unscrew the light engine from the body as both were firmly affixed to their proximal parts beyond normal 'hand tightening' and I did not wish to damage them.

*FN02:* All photographs were taken with the following settings:
1) Camera stationary on Tripod
2) Aperture (F-Stop for you old timers): F2.8
3) ISO 200
4) Little ambient light. "Dark" to the human eye, No light visible above trees. Multi second exposures account for appearance of abundant ambient light. Too dark to read camera settings without flashlight.



TBtO ~ END HTML CODE ~TBtO


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## TechnoBill (Jan 16, 2010)

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░ Reserved for comments by TechnoBill The Obtuse.░ 
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_In order of simplicity, not temporal precedence or priority, here's feedback to our CPF 'Alert Readers'._

*Jake25:* You missed nothing. I neglected to state that I was using 'fresh off the Pila' Solarforce Protected Li-Ion 3.7v 18650 2400 mAh batteries. One battery per flashlight.

*BlackRose:* This is the drop-in I'm using in the L2p















*^Gurthang:* This isn't entirely an _answer_ to your comments but rather a _response_ and addresses *rje58*'s observations. When I took the third set of photos that included the Skyline, L2P, and Skyline II, I too was surprised by the strong showing of the L2P vis a vis the Skyline II.

Pull up the full resolution photos below. Once at Image Shack, click the magnifying glass to bring up the photos full screen. Then close the four Image Shack pages leaving only the four photos.

*Skyline II*: 1 Second Exposure … … … … *Skyline*: 1 Second Exposure … … … *Skyline* on Left ~ *Skyline II* on right … *Skyline, L2P, Skyline II*


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Click left to right 1)Skyline II 2)Skyline 3)Skyline Left | Skyline II Right 4)Skyline | L2P | Skyline II.

First a few caveats:
1) When the weather co-operates (fog, misty drizzle today and tonight) I'd like to get another set of photos but at greater distance to determine a)where the respective three start to fall off.
2) Due to physical constraints, the L2P was pointing at the metallic siding at a 90° angle, while the Skyline II, although at the same point of origin, was easily at least at a 75° degree angle. It is _plausible_ the direct angle of the broader beam L2P was creating more reflections directly back into the camera lens.
3) Nonetheless, the Skyline II thus far seems to lack punch.
4) A wider building, a larger load out of gear, and a retinue of "Reviewer's Assistants" like the cute Red Head on that insipid MythBusters would no doubt allow a much more "rigorous test drive" {not to mention my wife banishing me to the garage }

I've some other outdoor testing in "The Suburban Boonies Of Truth", weather permitting, in the near future so perhaps a rematch is in the offing.


Bill, I do raise one question here, is the Sky II P60 compatable? It's not clear in your review or Solarforce's info.
*^Gurthang:* At the moment I can't establish a substantive answer to this, {DogFather & Househusband duties beckon} but purely off the top of my head I'm not optimistic. Note the photos of the depth of the interior of the head, the threads to which the head attaches, the positioning of the reflector, and the threads on the 'light engine' to which the reflector attaches. My trusty Surefires start at C3 Centurions and go up (in function and "ouch" price) from there, but I believe the business end of the C3 is, to borrow a phrase from *Tigger*, "practically similar". I'll check into that, but perhaps not today.
*^Gurthang:* *No Go.* The inner diameter of the Skyline II head is too small for the C3 body. Also the respective offsets (depth) of where the threads are placed preclude this.

Also, I'll pass along to Solarforce interest in more potent output.

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*Second Set of Shots 02/27/2010 to address confusion attributable, in my opinion, to the nature of the photographs that led to the SkylineII and L2P appearing very similar in output.*
My Goals, with varying success were as follows:
*) Individual Exposures
*) Non reflective building (actually absorptive shingle type material) at same site.
*) 50 Yards & 84 Yards.
*) 50 Yard Exposures: Aperture: F2.8; ISO 200; 6s, 5s, 4s, 3.2s, 2s, 1s.
*) 84 Yard Exposures: Zoomed with Aperture; F4.5 ISO 200; 6s, 5s, 4s, 3.2s, 2s, 1s.
_ :sigh: Unfortunately I hosed the 84 Yards photos by swapping camera batteries then failing to re-zoom lens. Weather was light sleet and difference not apparent as both eyepiece and display screen showed black under the dark conditions with long exposures. Simply forgot to re-zoom. No excuse. *Thus we have 'distance' shots of 84 Yards to target, rather than 'zoomed' shots of 84 Yards to target. Sorry Guys  .*_
*) Used same sets of Flashlight batteries for all exposures, attempting to keep activation times as close to identical as possible.
*) Overall, attempting to limit variables to extent feasible. Again, user fail on 84 Yard shots regrettable.

*
50 Yards onto Non Reflective Building*
*SkylineI: 18650*: 6 Second Exposure … … *SkylineII: 18650*: 6 Second Exposure … … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 6 Second Exposure … *L2P 18650:* 6 Second Exposure


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*SkylineI: 18650*: 5 Second Exposure … … *SkylineII: 18650*: 5 Second Exposure … … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 5 Second Exposure … *L2P 18650:* 5 Second Exposure


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*SkylineI: 18650*: 4 Second Exposure … … *SkylineII: 18650*: 4 Second Exposure … … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 4 Second Exposure … *L2P 18650:* 4 Second Exposure


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*SkylineI: 18650*: 3.2 Second Exposure … … *SkylineII: 18650*: 3.2 Second Exposure … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 3.2 Second Exposure … *L2P 18650:* 3.2 Second Exposure


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*SkylineI: 18650*: 2 Second Exposure … … … *SkylineII: 18650*: 2 Second Exposure … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 2 Second Exposure … *L2P 18650:* 2 Second Exposure


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*SkylineI: 18650*: 1 Second Exposure … … … *SkylineII: 18650*: 1 Second Exposure … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 1 Second Exposure … *L2P 18650:* 1 Second Exposure


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*The CR123As give the SkylineII a noticeable bump in output!* Without getting into math, the increase noticeable in the photos DOES match what the human eye appreciates. Pushed much harder, and heat dissipation _could_ become an issue. Again, this is not a light that is typically the sort I prefer, but the more I use it the more I like it. Classy piece to accompany a suit or jacket & tie, a CRKT Crawford Triumph and M1911A :naughty: !

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*Second SUB-Set of Shots 02/27/2010
84 Yards onto Non Reflective Building
*
*SkylineII: 18650*: 6 Second Exposure … … … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 6 Second Exposure … … *L2P 18650:* 6 Second Exposure


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*SkylineII: 18650*: 5 Second Exposure … … … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 5 Second Exposure … … *L2P 18650:* 5 Second Exposure


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*SkylineII: 18650*: 4 Second Exposure … … … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 4 Second Exposure … … *L2P 18650:* 4 Second Exposure


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*SkylineII: 18650*: 3.2 Second Exposure … … *SkylineII: 2xCR123A* 3.2 Second Exposure … *L2P 18650:* 3.2 Second Exposure


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84 Yard Shots Uploaded Sunday Morning 02/28/2010 10:21 EST (GMT -5).......


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## ^Gurthang (Jan 16, 2010)

Great review Bill! 

I love the look of the light [has a "don't F&*# with me" attitude] but the it seems like a step back from the L2p in terms of overall throw and total output. I just wonder if the ramping IU limits the current. I'd rather see a simple driver w/ 3 well spaced modes; 50 mA, 350 mA, and 1200 mA. 

Looking forward to your next review.


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## rje58 (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm really surprised by the beamshots, too. I would have expected the Skyline II, which is marketed as a 'thrower', to outthrow a standard L2P, but based on your beamshots, that is certainly not the case...?


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## Black Rose (Jan 16, 2010)

Nice work Bill.

At least we know not everything from ITC takes forever to arrive... 

For reference, what drop-in are you using in the L2P?


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## jake25 (Jan 16, 2010)

I'm skimming this really fast and probably missed it, what batteries are you using Technobill?


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## DM51 (Jan 17, 2010)

Very good review! Excellent photos and well explained details. The mental image of you battling vs. 85 lbs of uncontrollable German Shepherd puppy while writing this made me laugh!

The light does pretty well vs. its bigger brother, but the smaller head obviously could not be expected to throw as far as the large one.

Moving to the Reviews section...


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## TechnoBill (Jan 17, 2010)

*See responses in Post #2.

*Sir Craigory (csshih) started that protocol, and I think it works really well for maintaining the coherence of the thread as it develops. The substantive errors and ommissions on the part of the reviewer, or unaswered questions, are readily apparent for subsequent readers. Tangential comments can remain 'on down the trail' or be responded to as the thread progresses.


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## ^Gurthang (Jan 17, 2010)

I've re-read Bills excellent review and studied the beamshots again. Hate to say it but "great body but no 'OOMPH'". Solarforce should have [IMO] used the XP-G emitter. 

The Sky II has a nice even hotspot [refer to the 2 second trio exposure] but the L2p is putting a lot more light on target at that distance. 

The Sky II is a great looking package but Solarforce missed the mark [IMO] of a "pocket thrower". 

I will say that Solarforce has really up'd its workmanship w/ the Sky II. It has ALL the looks and the means to be a killer. 

I'm betting that someone will VERY quickly swap out the R2 & driver for an MC-E, or or SST50. 

Bill, I do raise one question here, is the Sky II P60 compatable? It's not clear in your review or Solarforce's info. 

FWIW, I'll take a pass this time.


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## Black Rose (Jan 17, 2010)

^Gurthang said:


> I've re-read Bills excellent review and studied the beamshots again. Hate to say it but "great body but no 'OOMPH'". Solarforce should have [IMO] used the XP-G emitter.


Solarforce designed this light as a pocket thrower (they claim "up to" 200m). 

If they used an XP-G, it would throw less than this one does, although the Cree rings would be gone.


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## TechnoBill (Jan 17, 2010)

First responses posted in Post 2


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## Linger (Jan 17, 2010)

*Anyone else notice the bezel doesn't thread onto the body, but to the pill.
I do not have the materials experience to say that this cost saving feature has a negative impact on the integrity of the light.
It does create an extra variable for error, as tolerances are now required to match across 3 peices.


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## swrdply400mrelay (Jan 17, 2010)

I see a Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 Head there. Any reviews on that yet?


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## TechnoBill (Jan 20, 2010)

swrdply400mrelay said:


> I see a Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 Head there. Any reviews on that yet?



Stand by.... Review forthcoming.

(I learned to build websites with merely a keyboard and HTML syntax. It provides much more control, in the case of these forum posts, and leaves all the "loading drag" to the photos. It does take a lot more time, but I'm also rather anal retentive so it makes for slow post construction)

Poke Sir Craigory, (csshih).Rumor has it he may have one in his "Fortress Of CoolStuff-itude :laughing


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## TechnoBill (Jan 21, 2010)

swrdply400mrelay said:


> I see a Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 Head there. Any reviews on that yet?


Per usual *Sir Craigory (csshih) has done a knock out job* on the Masterpiece Pro-1 Head, *Craig's Review*.

If the weather here on the SouthWest end of Lake Erie (United States) is precipitation and fog free tonight I'm hoping to do some distance shots (50 yards and 84 yards) of the Solarforce Masterpiece Pro-1 Head, as well as take additional photos of the Skyline, L2P, and SkylineII on a _non-reflective building_. The quotes below recap the questions regarding the L2P _appearing_ brighter than any one of us would have expected.

rje58 noted the following:


rje58 said:


> I'm really surprised by the beamshots, too. I would have expected the Skyline II, which is marketed as a 'thrower', to outthrow a standard L2P, but based on your beamshots, that is certainly not the case...?



Thus I responded:


TechnoBill said:


> *^Gurthang:* This isn't entirely an _answer_ to your comments but rather a _response_ and addresses *rje58*'s observations. When I took the third set of photos that included the Skyline, L2P, and Skyline II, I too was surprised by the strong showing of the L2P vis a vis the Skyline II.
> 
> Pull up the full resolution photos below. Once at Image Shack, click the magnifying glass to bring up the photos full screen. Then close the four Image Shack pages leaving only the four photos.
> 
> ...



*Unfortunately tonight bodes ill for distance photography.* NOAA {National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration} offers this less than encouraging forecast for tonight and following.



> Tonight: A chance of rain or freezing rain. Cloudy, with a low around 29. East wind between 9 and 17 mph. Chance of precipitation is 40%. New precipitation amounts between a tenth and quarter of an inch possible.
> 
> Friday: A chance of rain before noon. Cloudy, with a high near 37. East wind between 9 and 13 mph. Chance of precipitation is 40%. New rainfall amounts of less than a tenth of an inch possible.
> 
> ...


*To Summarize:*
1) Go to Craig's (csshih) review linked above for a good technical brief on the Pro-1.
2) My 50 yard and 84 yard distance shots of the Masterpiece Pro-1 head, as well as a second set of the Skyline, L2P, and Skyline II photos to eliminate conditions that may have given the L2P a stronger appearance than it merited will have to wait until the weather co-operates.


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## Flucero28 (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks for the beamshots! I see that you used 18650's in each light for the comparison. Based on the Skyline II stats (1st post), if you had used CR123's in the Skyline II, it would have resulted in 60 additional lumens? Could these additional lumens help the Skyline to be more on par with the other lights in the comparison?


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## stallion2 (Feb 6, 2010)

thanks for the immense effort, TBill. i can't believe i'm only learning about this light now. one area where i'm afraid i don't follow, Gurthang asked if it was P60 compatible. from your response it sounds like you tried to screw the head of the skyline 2 over an SF C3 to get your answer. maybe i'm missing something. i see where the reflector is removed from the light engine and then you can remove that from the body. once thats out of the way, is there room in which to use a P60 lamp? based on the dimensions i've read it sounds reasonable. at the very worst it looks as though you might need a longer spring.


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## romteb (Feb 6, 2010)

Wow, superb review, thanks !


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## TechnoBill (Feb 7, 2010)

TBtO ~ START HTML CODE ~TBtO … … … 


Flucero28 said:


> Based on the Skyline II stats (1st post), if you had used CR123's in the Skyline II, it would have resulted in 60 additional lumens? Could these additional lumens help the Skyline to be more on par with the other lights in the comparison?


Sorry for the delay in responding Flucero28. Lately our lives have been running like a precision aligned, well oiled, Train Wreck



! Taken purely literally, as opposed to _appreciably_ brighter, YES the CR123s would _help the Skyline to be more on par with the other lights in the comparison._ But whether the increase would be sufficient to make the SkylineII _substantially_ more potent remains an open question. I wish I could say I'll run out tonight to my "Field Of Truth" (Attribution to MrGman :wave for a retest using CR123s, but some things beyond my control are really messing with my Flashlight "Quality Time". You may wish to P.M. Craig (csshih) for a "white wall test" as I believe he has 97% of all the existing flashlights in the world in his possession. I could be wrong. It may be as low as 94% or 95% 


stallion2 said:


> Gurthang asked if it was P60 compatible. from your response it sounds like you tried to screw the head of the skyline 2 over an SF C3 to get your answer. maybe i'm missing something. i see where the reflector is removed from the light engine and then you can remove that from the body. once thats out of the way, is there room in which to use a P60 lamp? based on the dimensions i've read it sounds reasonable. at the very worst it looks as though you might need a longer spring.


Stallion2, _(Great screen name by the way, makes me think of the Ferrari Prancing Stallion :twothumbs)_ Yes, in responding to Gurthang, I used the SkylineII head and a C3 body. But using a P91 (Surefire) drop-in and the SkylineII head, it seems very obvious that this is NOT viable. Here's why, based purely on taking the parts and pursuing the "Lego Test Methodology", the P91 head, at the outer diameter of the end of the reflector, is too large to pass the inside threads of the SkylineII head. Further, without inner diameter head threads accessible to the body, the body would be unable to be secured to the head. Perhaps more engineering oriented folks could theorize a way to accomplish what you're looking for, but I consider it unlikely to be cost effective. I've posted thumbnails to full size version photos below. Hopefully the photos will help clarify what my babbling has not.


 … … … 

 … … … 


TBtO ~ END HTML CODE ~TBtO … … …


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## andyw513 (Feb 7, 2010)

Wish I had the money right now, seems like an awesome light!


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## stallion2 (Feb 7, 2010)

couldn't you remove the lens/bezel and insert a dropin there? then use the original body after removing the engine?


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## TechnoBill (Feb 8, 2010)

stallion2 said:


> couldn't you remove the lens/bezel and insert a dropin there? then use the original body after removing the engine?


Machining is likely going to be involved in any scenario. If you note in the _Third Thumbnail_ in _Post #19_, it appears that the inner diameter of the smooth bore closer to the lens is the same as the diameter of the top "ridge edge" of the threads. The most precise measurement tool I have for discerning such is the "Pinky of Probable Proportions" and the measurements it produces are _"Huh... hmmm.... I dunno.... feels about the same as the top of threads."_

I think the only definitive determination of the viability of your goal, will be to acquire one, and attempt customization yourself. I'm not a mechanical engineer, and I didn't even stay at Holiday Inn last night :shakehead, but the way the entire torch is designed, it seems that if you attain _one_ of your goals, you will just be confronted with _another_ challenge, either as a result of your first modification, or one extant prior to your attempts to modify.

Prior to joining CPF, the smallest lights I used were the Nighthawk Gladius and the Surefire C3, so small/medium size flashlights aren't necessarily an attractive attribute for me. Nonetheless, the SkylineII is just outstandingly cool looking, and seems like a great daily carry light. It is _SO_ distinctively designed, and evinces such quality of construction and classiness, that even Non-Flashaholics will be impressed. And as regards the ladies, you can be at a cocktail party and *"whip out" your SkylineII* Try _THAT_ with a Ferrari


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## bigchelis (Feb 22, 2010)

Hi,

I love the many pictures and I thought I would add the OTF lumens. I got my Skyline II on loan from Craig.

Here is what I got:

*Solarforce Skyline II_________________ R2 3v~6V input_______________ 1 AW 2600mAh 18650_________________ 147.7_________________1 sec*
Solarforce Skyline II___________________ R2 3v~6V input________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________146.2_________________30 sec
Solarforce Skyline II___________________ R2 3v~6V input________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________144.6_________________1 min
Solarforce Skyline II___________________ R2 3v~6V input________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________143.8_________________2 min
Solarforce Skyline II___________________ R2 3v~6V input________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________143.8_________________3 min
*Solarforce Skyline II_________________ R2 3v~6V input________________ 2 CR123 Primaries___________________185.4_________________ 1 sec*
Solarforce Skyline II___________________ R2 3v~6V input_________________ 2 CR123 Primaries___________________ 176.2_________________30 sec
Solarforce Skyline II___________________ R2 3v~6V input_________________ 2 CR123 Primaries___________________ 177.7_________________1 min
Solarforce Skyline II___________________ R2 3v~6V input_________________ 2 CR123 Primaries___________________ 179.2_________________2 min
Solarforce Skyline II___________________ R2 3v~6V input_________________ 2 CR123 Primaries___________________ 184.6_________________3 min


Here are all my IS Sphere readings:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/260659


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## ^Gurthang (Feb 22, 2010)

I looked through your IS sphere readings BC. 

The Romisen N3 Q5 on 1 CR123 had very similar readings to the Sky II. 

Compare the Sky II to 2 other R2 / 18650 lights tested; Surefire 6P w/ Solarforce R2 low V drop-in and the same Surefire 6P w/ a Dereelight R2 low V drop-in. 

Both 6P lights tested close to 220 OTF @ 1 min vs the Sky II 145 OTF @ 1 min.

Guess I'm going to go back [again] an re-read the whole thread to find out if anyone took current readings and look again at the drop-in design. 

After looking at BC OTF readings I have to wonder, how hard is the emitter driven and what effect the reflector/ bezel has on OTF readings. 

I REALLY want to like this torch....


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## bigchelis (Feb 22, 2010)

With a single cell both Skyline I and Skyline II are driven at around 800mA. If you can take them apart and put a 1.4A driver or a 1.2A driver then you would be more impressed. 

I wish Solarforce would have pushed them harder from the factory:mecry:


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## TechnoBill (Feb 22, 2010)

Now THIS Rocks! It's also part of why I'm so fond of this forum. _*Collaborative*_ efforts for the good of the Flashaholic community :thumbsup:. Darn it's great to see folks offering what resources they can bring to bear, rather than a competitive, or worse, atmosphere.

Unfortunately the weather here, and problems (I think it's called "life", drat :thumbsdow) have kept me from getting the greater distance shots I was hoping to have in the can long ago, but bigchelis' OTF readings quite simply "Kick Gluteus Maximus (Maximi?)" and allow more reliable suppositions than mere photos.

*Thank You b.c.! lovecpf*

I'd also like to note something that just occurred to me. I've always maintained the dichotomy between "enthusiast" lights and "work" lights, the latter referring to those who go in harm's way or life saving sort of folks like EMTs, LifeFlight etc. When yours, or another's life depends on it, Surefire. But adhering to the _"Two is One. One is None."_ rule is fine for a primary and backup light for whatever is one's main occupational role, but it's not realistic or at least perhaps not cost effective to have SF BULs (Back Up Lights) for every single light you use.

I used to carry an SF C3 and a Nighthawk Gladius. Both dead nuts realiable, and with a spares carrier with six CR123 primaries I was in good shape. I still carry those two as EDCs and the Spares Carrier, but now I find myself carrying the L2P on an EDC basis, and at least one other Solarforce depending on the "shape" of my day and attire. In a genuine emergency/disaster I'd have no problem "loaning" one of what I refer to as "hobbyist" lights {I've got to come up with a slightly less pejorative term} and thus, from a tactical standpoint, I am even _better_ equipped thanks to my indoctrination into Flashaholism. This comes as a bit of a surprise, but in hindsight it makes a lot of sense.

Still, for a short or long gun an SF or LDI is the "stake your life on it" hardware, but these "enthusiast" lights open up a whole new range of secondary or tertiary support options I'd never considered. This is all just win/win/win oh... and Win! :twothumbs




bigchelis said:


> Hi,
> 
> I love the many pictures and I thought I would add the OTF lumens. I got my Skyline II on loan from Craig.
> 
> ...


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## csa (Feb 22, 2010)

Nice review, great pictures! Definitely got me thinking about this light.


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## DM51 (Feb 23, 2010)

TechnoBill said:


> Both dead nuts


_Both_ of them dead? :huh: :thinking: Very sorry to hear that - I hope it isn't too uncomfortable :green: 

LOL


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## TechnoBill (Feb 23, 2010)

Ahhh..... the *personality behind the sober Moderator emerges* ! Nice catch.

Also a big _"Thank You"_ and :bow: to all the "Gear Addicts" who read right past it thinking of their EDC Nighthawk, Bill Wilson, '7,000 rounds downrange with nary a hiccup' G17, G21, or faithful bush partner Remy 700.

However, *I must commend you on your restraint up to this point* David . My posts have been rife with material upon which you could have riffed! Jolly Good Show My Good Man! Good show _indeed_! But you do understand I am now obligated to subtly nestle double entendres upon which you dare not comment in a _family oriented forum_ . 



TechnoBill said:


> _Both dead nuts_





DM51 said:


> _Both_ of them dead? :huh: :thinking: Very sorry to hear that - I hope it isn't too uncomfortable :green:
> 
> LOL


TechnoBill The Obtuse wanders away mumbling … … hmm … let's see how powerful this search engine is....... selective query on 'DM51' … … :naughty: Oh, wait … uh, … should probably check how tight this brand of forum software has its code wrapped. … see if I can build a server side macro for Private Messages. I don't want to lose any incoming due to a full PM box. Maybe an SMTP forward and PM delete piece of code … …


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## ^Gurthang (Feb 23, 2010)

SNORK!!!


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## TechnoBill (Feb 27, 2010)

_[*NEXT SIX HOURS:* A period of steady light snow is likely between 7pm and 10pm. Cloudy with temperatures steady in the mid 30s. Winds NW at 5 to 10 mph. Chance of snow 40%. No significant snow accumulations through 11pm._

*Here's hoping for very light snow .*

*Gearing up for:*
Skyline 18650, Skyline II 18650, SkylineII *CR123A*, L2P 18650;
*) Individual Exposures
*) Non reflective building (actually absorptive shingle type material) at same site.
*) 50 Yards & 84 Yards.
*) Exposures: Aperture: F2.8; ISO 200; 6s, 5s, 4s, 3.2s, 2s, 1s.
*) 84 yards will be underexposed but shooting for one to one comparable high resolution thumbs.
*) Will use same set batteries for all exposures, attempting to keep activation times as close to identical as possible.
*) Overall, attempting to limit variables to extent feasible.


*SHOOT COMPLETE* as of 22:00 EST (GMT-5) Saturday 02/27/2010.
Good News: 50 Yards photos look representative from cursory review.
Bad News: I hosed the 84 Yards photos by swapping camera batteries then failing to re-zoom lens. Weather was light sleet and difference not apparent as both eyepiece and display screen showed black under the dark conditions with long exposures. Simply forgot to re-zoom. No excuse. But WILL post 84 yard photos. They just aren't the direct comparison quality I'd been hoping for. Will post photos, whose primary goal was to compare L2P and SkylineII, in Post #2 and announce below when complete.

Post Script: Bitter cold is no fun but, by contrast, damp 34º Fahrenheit with 30º wind chill in deep, damp snow I think is more miserable :thumbsdow. Snow is a heck of a lot more slippery too under such conditions :sigh:.
 Stand by for photos...


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## TechnoBill (Feb 28, 2010)

Skyline 18650, Skyline II 18650, SkylineII *CR123A*, L2P 18650; UPDATE COMPLETE  here SkylineII and L2P under stricter conditions than initial post.


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## TechnoBill (Mar 1, 2010)

Black Rose said:


> Solarforce designed this light as a _*pocket* {emphasis added by TBtO}_thrower.
> 
> If they used an XP-G, it would throw less than this one does, although the Cree rings would be gone.


Having spent substantially more time with the SkylineII, I'm inclined to go with what I _think_ Black Rose is explicating. Coming from the Surefire camp where _reliability_ is paramount. I'm pretty pleased with the SkylineII as it is.

To wit: select some of the 84 yard photos, click them up full screen through Image Shack, and you'll see:
*1)* The CR123As do add substantial "oomph."
*2)* Also, with the *CR123As* at ambient of room temperature, the SkylineII *warms up substantially* when you get up around *30 minutes* of run time. If it had been pushed harder, given the same emitter, viable run time would have plummeted. The *SkylineII fits in a suit pocket = limited heat sink mass*.
{It's like the old Inuit colloquialism about the doofus who was cold and decided to build a camp fire in his canoe: *You can't have your kayak and heat it too




*.}

*3)* For frequent, if not EDC, I rather like the SkylineII with an 18650! I can run indefinitely, spares on person, no worries.
*4)* For "Gear Up" days (Two is One. One is None.) The Surefire C3 Centurion with Moddoo Triple and NightOps Gladius are the 'go to' tools. The L2P and Skyline II can serve a variety of secondary and tertiary needs, some pure illumination, some tactical distraction :naughty:.


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## ^Gurthang (Mar 2, 2010)

Bill,

Again, thanks for your hard work in getting all those pics. 

The old saying,"you can't be all things to all folks" certainly applies here. From all the beamshots it appears that based on the SkyII proprietary drop-in its optimized for 2 cell operation. 

I will say that the Sky II does have a nicer hot spot vs. the L2p [50 yd shots] so it does fulfill its intended role as a pocket thrower. No argument from me on that point. 

So now the question is: can you hack the Sky II drop-in and; 

Swap the driver for a 1 cell Li-Ion regulated driver for full output on 1X18650 [a SF 3 mode driver would be cool] 

Modify the drop-in to relocate the LED for more/less focus so it will work w/ an XP-G 

Go Gonzo and find a way to install a MC-E/P7/SST50 & driver w/ improved heat management to create a POCKET BOMBER!!! 

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!!!


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## TechnoBill (Mar 2, 2010)

*I, and the rest of the class, will be looking forward to your Preliminary Inquiry and Science Project .

*I'm sure you'll do the _Center for Illumiholics & Compulsive Flashlighteers _proud ^Gurthang! After all, Recovery Is For Quitters



! After getting them posted, I _am_ rather pleased with the 84 yard shots. You can click the thumbs until you reach max resolution (with much of the photo beyond the edges of the monitor, but zoomed on an area of your choice), which allows one to one comparisons of the SkylineII on dual 123s vs. the L2p on an 18650. The oddity in it all is that in order to get the camera 'on target', I had to cut loose with the Masterpiece to even _see_ what's in the frame. The eyepiece and display plane are completely black to the actual subject flashlights. Also, the non-reflective building is closer to beige industrial lights parallel to the beam. By comparison, the semi reflective building is further from the industrial lights. I think in future shoots I'll go with the semi-reflective and one flashlight per exposure.

And again, before CPF, my lights were straightforward defensive and tactical tools. Surefire C3 EDC, Night-Ops Gladius EDC, LDI & Surfire weapon lights, a Surefire M6 for SHTF, and the Pentagon red light for stealth ops. BUT I FLAT OUT *LOVE* THE SkylineII for its aesthetics and function. I normally don't give a rat's posterior for the _appearance_ of a tool (M1911s excepted), so the SkylineII is even more impressive to me.

In the armaments world, we have a phrase *"Unobtanium"*. Feel free to eat your heart out in regard to the following pictures. You may have seen the _*Tactical Cranial Cover*_ in Blackhawk Catalogs from years back, or I _suppose_ you could try to talk Ken Good into sending you _his_. :laughing:

Yes, that WAS hateful and petty. I'm SO ASHAME… NoI'mNot!:nana:

*THE* Tacti-Cool Hat.










^Gurthang said:


> So now the question is: can you hack the Sky II drop-in and;
> 
> Swap the driver for a 1 cell Li-Ion regulated driver for full output on 1X18650 [a SF 3 mode driver would be cool]
> 
> ...


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## ^Gurthang (Mar 3, 2010)

Bill,

Yep, the long shots confirm the tight beam, and I DO like throwers..... 

Double yeppers on the Lid, but I have expected it in flat black w/ reflective flat-black lettering... stealthy until you put a light to it! 

I on the other hand am NOT stealthy and when you shine a light on me, I shine one right back at you!! 

Where IS nurse Rachett???


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## TechnoBill (Mar 3, 2010)

*Mods: Brief off topic digression.*
*^G*
1) The Pentagon S2 at 635 nm is for low profile "maintenance" issues. Getting gear squared without creating a location revealing light signature. 19 LEDS (no hot spot, very diffuse, very short range).
2) No LDIs in that photo. The black body is my original Night-Ops Gladius. If you zoom you'll see it's serial # 00516. _I originally was pre-ordered for a slot and serial number BELOW #00050__, but one of Ken's people/systems let it fall through the cracks at Strategos. *Ken did me right when he found out :thumbsup:!*_ I LOVE my Night-Ops/Blackhawk hat. Reserved for special occasions as well as weddings, funerals, Pulitzer Awards.
3) I wouldn't point a light at you.
4) Flash illuminate to identify Tango, MOVE, Fire. Meanwhile, he's firing at where you _were_. See "Taken". See kitchen scene w/ Albanians for "Don't be where they expect you to be." Quite the fine art.
5) My LDIs are Laser/Incan pistol devices. A dear friend, had a real LDI in the sandbox. LDI for Devil Dogs :naughty:. For mid-range engagements, it's the Heat!
6) Nurse Ratchet? Darn, you're as ancient as I am! Growing Older, But NOT Up!

*Fur Team Alpha C.O*. giving Mission Briefing:






^Gurthang said:


> Bill,
> 
> Yep, the long shots confirm the tight beam, and I DO like throwers.....
> 
> ...


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