# Need help ID carved chest, Chinese or Japanese?



## cy (Jun 4, 2005)

Need help identifying ornate carved chest. Is this Chinese or Japanese? 

Thanks in advance,


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## Jefff (Jun 4, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

Not sure where it is from or how old.. but it is awesome.. Wish I could be more help than just praise your possesion.
Jeff


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## cy (Jun 4, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

Thanks Jefff, it's a pretty large chest. must have took someone a looong time to carve that. 

Sure wish someone could read the writing in the carvings.


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## nekomane (Jun 4, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

Reading from right, the characters present
Send / Moon / Hut (hut or store or shack etc.)
It could be related to some kind of seasonal (lunar) ceremony, or a scene of it taking place??

The shape of the temple's roof does not look Japanese.


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## Penguin (Jun 4, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

They're chinese characters, so it's a chinese chest


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## reefphilic (Jun 4, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

I think it has a oriental origin. I can see three Chinese characters which were "written" from right to left.

The meaning of the character from right to left is as below:

1st character - give, farewell
2nd character - moon, month etc...
3rd character - shelter

In mandarin, a character can have different meanings depending on how and what other character/s they are combined with. Based on the carving of the shelter shown. I would guess that it is the name of a shelter. Or it could even mean a shelter used for appreciating the moon. 

Any other Chinese CPFers from Asia, please correct me if I'm wrong. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


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## cy (Jun 4, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

Thanks everyone! here's the carvings from front & back sides. Chest looks stuning in person! amazed at how much work went into this.


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## AW (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

Beautiful chest. The carvings and character looks chinese to me and it sure shows some age on it. Can you take some pictures showing the inside hinges and inside/under joints? Any nails used? I can give you a rough idea whether it is a real antique or some replica. Either way, a nice collection !


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## cy (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

AW, thanks for your help. 

construction is tongue and groove all way thru. no nails on exterior, only 8 screws holding mortised feet.

Cedar (I think?) interior is pinned with brass nails. Looks like interior was added later. craftmanship of interior doesn't match exterior. liner material looks like old growth. smells heavily of spice. can't place which one. 

don't know how to tell if brass hardware is recent or not. 

Thanks again for your help,


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## AW (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

Humm... plywood is used, the hinges looked new, modern screws is used. The circular holes along the side seems to be drilled by mordern tools.. The workmanship inside is fair.... Well, I hope you didn't pay too much for it. It is still a beatiful chest from the outside.


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## cy (Jun 6, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

AW, thanks for your accessment. really didn't think chest was that old. maybe 1930's or later. mfg hardware was around starting to be used about then. 

Still it's a beautiful chest! Just not really old, as compared to one's in China. 

Do you have any links to what really old construction would look like? 

thanks again,


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## AW (Jun 6, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

I loved to browse antique shops and learned a trick or two about spotting the real thing from replicas. There are a lot of factories in China producing replica antique furnitures and selling them as real antiques to un-suspecting customers, usually tourist. They are quite hard to tell from the outside from inexperienced eyes. However, when you turn to the underside and you'll see quite a bit of tell tale signs from sloppy works. A 100 year old plus Chinese antique furniture has no nails or screws because metal nail were very hard to get then. Pieces were joined together by good wood crafting skills which is hardly used nowadays because it is too labor consuming. One more thing, they used same materials inside and out. They don't built things like this any more....


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## twentysixtwo (Jun 6, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

Note: I'm not an expert in Asian art, but have a fair knowledge of the subject....

You can't assume that it's Chinese from the characters as they use these in Japan 

Although there are signs it may be a forgery, It's also possible they are a more recent repair.

The color of the wood and the description (Spice smelling) makes me believe it's a camphor-wood chest. Camphor-wood is from a type of cinnamon tree

Based on the overall shape and design, I'd guess it's Chinese. Japanese carvings tend to be more simple and less ornate. Traditional Japanese joinery would also tend to avoid dovetails on exposed surfaces. Camphor-wood chests are fairly common in China, Japan tends more towards white cedar.


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## cy (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: Need help ID ornate carved chest*

twentysixtwo, thanks for your input. it does smell of cinnamon. read up on camphor wood, suppose to hold smell for a hundred years. 

inner lining doesn't match exterior. like AW said, hinges do look new. but brass hinges have been made for over a hundred years. 

took out liner basket and confirmed cinnamon smell is not coming from liner material. this further makes me believe liner was added later. 

there is a total of 8 iron screws holding mortised legs to chest. 

there is no plywood used anywhere, only solid veneer

found this hunting for antique chinese furniture info: 

Fittings

Metalwork on Asian furniture includes handles, lockplates, hinges and decorative hardware. Some Japanese and Korean chests are almost entirely covered with such fittings in iron, copper, or brass alloys. Many mounts are plain, while others have patterns incised, pricked or hammered on their surface; some are even lacquered in red or black. It is not unusual for old pieces to have relatively new fittings, which should not affect a piece's value if the fittings have been chosen with care.

"Basically the only way you're going to know if something is a real antique or if it's a fake is if the dealer tells you it is and you trust the dealer. There's no way the average person is going to know if a piece is a fake or not. It's hard sometimes for dealers to tell. You have to be an expert to know if it's an Asian antique. It's a matter of knowing the dealer and knowing you can trust the dealer's word on a piece."

"Throughout China, most furniture was finished with lacquer coatings to provide durable, sealed surfaces as well as decorative effects - a technique practised since ancient times. In fact, lacquer is one the best indicators of the age of a piece, since lacquer ages and oxidizes at predictable, measurable rates. "

the detective hunt goes on...

thanks again everyone!


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