# Why is ArmyTek maligned or ignored in this Forum?



## wweiss (Feb 12, 2018)

Why is ArmyTek maligned or ignored in this Forum?

Is it that it's a Chinese manufacturer couched as a "Canadian" company couched as a Chinese manufacturer shipping from Canada?
Is it.... what? Why is everyone going on about lessor quality lights ad nauseum?

I have had their very excellent Prime C2 XHP35 Warm for 2 years and it's a very, very great light. You can drop it from Mars and it works. UI side-switch excellent, many modes, TIR optics excellent, tint great, run-times good, durability great, form factor great and looks good. This light can use any form of 18650 - button or flat and any form of 123. May be a little on the large side for EDC, but easily doable and with a magnetic tail. If you add up all the capabilities and features for the cost, this light blows many away far away...

Would someone please tell me why there is little mention of it's virtues? Or the virtues of ArmyTek, in any regard?


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## Mattz68 (Feb 12, 2018)

Not sure about them fronting as a Canadian manufactured light has much to do with the lack of discussion on here really. Probably has more to do with a over-saturated flashlight market than anything else. I’ve always been Intrigued by army-tech because they’re one of the few manufacturers that offer a true “warm white” option. Unfortunately, I just can’t get over the fact they cover the light in unnecessary writing: “don’t look into flashlight” “www. Army-tech.” It makes the light look tacky and cheap in my opinion.


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## archimedes (Feb 12, 2018)

Do you mean "this forum" = CPF ... or "this (sub)forum" = General Flashlight ?

If the former, well ... lots of threads and discussion, located here -

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?165-ArmyTek

If the latter, well ... I think most of their products are LED Flashlights and/or Headlamps, thus more discussed in those subforums respectively :shrug:


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## Ernst from Germany (Feb 13, 2018)

I think,Armytek is not so presant in Diskussion because there is nothing new about Lamps since a long time.Armytek must offer new Models.The Ranger perhaps or the Grizzly.A Ranger with 3500 Lumen would be nice.
Ernst


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## Kivatch (Feb 13, 2018)

Ernst from Germany said:


> I think,Armytek is not so presant in Diskussion because there is nothing new about Lamps since a long time.Armytek must offer new Models.The Ranger perhaps or the Grizzly.A Ranger with 3500 Lumen would be nice.
> Ernst



I agree. Today's trends are for the small and high-lumens lights with XHP70.2 emitters, that's why they don't raise a lot of attention here.

But ArmyTek must continue to build their small tactical lights which are great and rather unique on the market even if there is still room for improvement. IMO they should improve their marketing approach to be less "bullshit" looking.


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## niraya (Feb 13, 2018)

For me Armytek is nr. 1 choice. and even more astonishing than lack of Armytek topics is why there are so many threads about Malkoff, Surefire and HDS which to me are all far less interesting lights.


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

@archimedes - Yes I mean this forum. To me, it’s a discussion about that Company and it’s output, marketing generally. Not a specific model - although I seeded the question with my like for a specific model.

Already @Kivatch and @Mattz68 have each given me a POV I hadn’t considered...


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

@niraya - exactly my point...


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## vadimax (Feb 13, 2018)

Personally for me ArmyTek is not an option because of their quality issues. Too many people had negative experience according to that forum.


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

@vadimax: So I’ve seen - I haven’t had quality issues with the models I have. That’s why I was wondering why they suffered as a discussion topic.


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## peter yetman (Feb 13, 2018)

wweiss said:


> @vadimax: So I’ve seen - I haven’t had quality issues with the models I have. That’s why I was wondering why they suffered as a discussion topic.


Yes, but a lot of people _have_ had quality issues with their lights, that's why they write about them.
It's a fact of life that people who are dissatisfied are more likely to make a noise about it than those who are satisfied.
I like the concept of AT lights, but along with Vad, I've read too many negative comments. 
Maybe start a thread in praise of Armytek, and try and persuade us?
P


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## Kivatch (Feb 13, 2018)

They obviously had more problems with their QC than Zebralight for example. But the reason people are complaining so much has also something to do with ArmyTek's marketing ; They claim : Hassle free warranty ! 10 years ! Most advanced ! 

With such expectations, you're easily disappointed when the driver fails for example.

There is a lot to love about ArmyTek lights (at least the "tactical" line) ; They are one of the only manufacturers to pot their drivers and they have one of the best anodizing and build quality on the market and at this price point.
The body of their flashlight has no dents of rough machining, but thanks to the thick matte anodizing, they have an excellent grip.


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## bigburly912 (Feb 13, 2018)

I honestly am turned off by them because I don’t want my flashlights to look like a NASCAR vehicle.


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## XR6Toggie (Feb 13, 2018)

I've seen them mentioned quite a bit here and they also seem popular on r/flashlight. I also see a lot of comment about their QC and customer service, usually in the negative.


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## Tachead (Feb 13, 2018)

wweiss said:


> Why is ArmyTek maligned or ignored in this Forum?
> 
> Is it that it's a Chinese manufacturer couched as a "Canadian" company couched as a Chinese manufacturer shipping from Canada?
> Is it.... what? Why is everyone going on about lessor quality lights ad nauseum?
> ...



Because they have very unreliable lights, deceptive marketing, exaggerated specs, and customer service and warranty support that is much more trouble then most companies.

And, for the record they are actually a Belarusian company that makes their lights in China and keeps a headquarters in Canada so they can claim they are a Canadian company.

As for the Prime C2 Pro XHP35 Warm, it is actually not a very good light. While it has a fairly nice body and good UI, it has a very inefficient driver and highly exaggerated specs(it's actual output is more then 30% less then AT advertises). I had one and it started to malfunction and failed in less then year with minimal use. Here is a review that shows it's poor performance...

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54675

There is an almost constant flow of reports of issues with failures and AT's customer service all over the internet. Even though they are just a small company there seems to be more reports then any other flashlight company. Personally, I have had three of their lights fail out of the four that I tried. All failed in less then a year with minimal use and not even a drop. My experience with there customer service wasn't great either and although they eventually replaced my lights, it was more of a hassle then any other company I have dealt with in my 25+ years of being a flashlight enthusiast. My last warranty claim took 2 months to resolve and I live in the same province as their headquarters. There are many people that have had similar experiences and these reports can be found here, other forums, Reddit, YouTube, etc. And, those are only the ones that weren't deleted at AT's request(they ask customers to delete videos off of YouTube after warranty work has been performed) or removed by moderators.

Honestly, I have tried a lot of flashlights and brands over my years as an enthusiast and Armytek is the only one I wish I never tried. I would never recommend them to anyone and imo there are a lot better options out there.


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## niraya (Feb 13, 2018)

Just reading, that somebodies are having problems with Armytek means zilch to me, I will never know what exactly they do or did to it and how they ab/used it. I had/have number of Armytek lights and never had problems in most extreme weather. To me their drivers and UI are topnotch and I had some fallen over 8 meters from second floor window to the concrete, every other light I had will be dead, not Armytek. My top recommendation for headlamp with probably Zebralight close behind. :twothumbs


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## The_Driver (Feb 13, 2018)

To me they are basically Zebralights which can be modded. In my eyes there is nothing comparable to the lights of these two companies because of the elecronics, u.i.s and small size.


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## Ernst from Germany (Feb 13, 2018)

I think Armytek delivers high quality products, but from time to time they must bring new models, otherwise they will be forgotten.Armytek is able to deliver good tools.There are enough fans in Germany.
Ernst


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## Tachead (Feb 13, 2018)

niraya said:


> Just reading, that somebodies are having problems with Armytek means zilch to me, I will never know what exactly they do or did to it and how they ab/used it. I had/have number of Armytek lights and never had problems in most extreme weather. To me their drivers and UI are topnotch and I had some fallen over 8 meters from second floor window to the concrete, every other light I had will be dead, not Armytek. My top recommendation for headlamp with probably Zebralight close behind. :twothumbs



My 3 AT lights that died were never abused, were ran on brand new Panasonic NCR18650GA's and Eneloop Pro's from day one, all of the contacts were maintained with Deoxit, and the threads and O-rings were maintained with Nyogel 760G. They were lightly used and never even dropped(not that that should matter with their claims of extreme durability). I take very good care of my stuff and am an experienced flashlight enthusiast and tradesman(electronics, mechanical, etc.). The lights just malfunctioned and died for no reason. This same thing has happened to many other people. They either have an issue with their driver design or a huge quality control issue. And, then there is their annoying hassle ridden customer service, constant lies about output and runtimes(proven by many reviewers), and misleading and exaggerated marketing(about their lights and county of origin). They are a pretty terrible company imo and there lights have been the least reliable of any of the many many brands I have tried over the last 25+ years. It's too bad too as their bodies(aside from all the writing) and UI are pretty nice. 

I agree with you about Zebralight but, I rate them far above Armytek. There lights are more advanced and efficient, more reliable, and there customer service is much better from my experience.


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## LightObsession (Feb 13, 2018)

wweiss said:


> You can drop it from Mars and it works.



WOW! I'm impressed that it can survive the cold, vacuum and ratiation of space! Very cool!

Out of curiosity, how was that test carried out?


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## Tachead (Feb 13, 2018)

wweiss said:


> You can drop it from Mars and it works.





LightObsession said:


> WOW! I'm impressed that it can survive the cold, vacuum and ratiation of space! Very cool!
> 
> Out of curiosity, how was that test carried out?



Wait a second:thinking:, I think he might work for Armytek's marketing department.


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## LeanBurn (Feb 13, 2018)

For me the cost/performance value seems a little high and even as a Canadian, the shipping is pricey. The performance, issues and subsequent customer service interactions with some on this forums further widened the gap.


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

Tachead said:


> Wait a second:thinking:, I think he might work for Armytek's marketing department.



No, "He", don't...


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

niraya said:


> Just reading, that somebodies are having problems with Armytek means zilch to me, I will never know what exactly they do or did to it and how they ab/used it. I had/have number of Armytek lights and never had problems in most extreme weather. To me their drivers and UI are topnotch and I had some fallen over 8 meters from second floor window to the concrete, every other light I had will be dead, not Armytek. My top recommendation for headlamp with probably Zebralight close behind. :twothumbs



I agree about the headlamps from AT. They also have a lot more tint options to order from within each model.


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## Hugh Johnson (Feb 13, 2018)

LightObsession said:


> WOW! I'm impressed that it can survive the cold, vacuum and ratiation of space! Very cool!
> 
> Out of curiosity, how was that test carried out?



Tests were conducted by Mars Rover.


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## Tachead (Feb 13, 2018)

wweiss said:


> No, "He", don't...



I was obviously joking and playing on the fact that ATs marketing department likes to exaggerate.


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

As the OP, I can already see that there are as many opinions as there are lights - just about as with every other issue on CPF. Quality and reliability failures seem to bubble up to the top.

I do get the sense that there are either way more issues with AT "durability, QC promises", or that those that have been unlucky with AT are very irritated by them. Those that have had no problems, speak not about the virtues of the lights. Those that have had problems, speak out with a decided venting.

I understand a little more about how many opinions there are here and how they seem to be based on fact and not snob appeal for the esoterica. 

That was what I wanted to know...


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

Tachead said:


> I was obviously joking and playing on the fact that ATs marketing department likes to exaggerate.



I knew that... 

Now, where should I have them send my marketing consultant's fee? My Hampton house, or, the Brownstone on Park Ave...


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

Hugh Johnson said:


> Tests were conducted by Mars Rover.



It was carried out in Elon Musk's dreams...


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

Tachead said:


> Because they have very unreliable lights, deceptive marketing, exaggerated specs, and customer service and warranty support that is much more trouble then most companies.
> 
> And, for the record they are actually a Belarusian company that makes their lights in China and keeps a headquarters in Canada so they can claim they are a Canadian company.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link - I read that review.

_- Lower than average efficacy (lumens per watt)
- Gets hotter faster than other 1000 lumen lights
- Falls 33% short of manufacturer’s output claims
- Strong pink tint on the higher modes (still better than green)
- Chirping noise from the blinking side switch with fresh batteries_




_Edited by: maukka on 06/01/2017 - 05:21
_
I basically agree with the verdict, but still like mine (12-5-2016 v3) a lot...


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## eh4 (Feb 13, 2018)

I love my warm white V3 Predator Pro, it malfunctioned in an auspicious way, burned out the strobe in the first few hours that I had it, but suffered no further malfunctions. 
The second Armytek light I got was a V3 warm HI Predator Pro, it failed spectacularly, now only comes on firefly or gives a brief flash. 

After going through the extensive back and forth for warranty claim, including posting video proof of the malfunction, and video proof that it still happened when bypassing the tail switch, I balked at their request that I ship it back to China with "the least insurance" on the package... I'd spent about 90$ in the light and they wanted me to ship it back under insured... I didn't fully parse out their logic but it didn't sit well with me, I've got another 8 years on the
"No hassle warranty", so it sits on my shelf, I keep thinking of turning it into a host with a quality driver from Mountain Electronics. 

I love the design of the Predator, they're really cool lights when the components and assembly come together to not make a lemon.


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## recDNA (Feb 13, 2018)

One reason is if it breaks within warranty they demand a video showing the fault. It isn't always easy to do that with only phone video & it is a royal pita.


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## eh4 (Feb 13, 2018)

Bigburly912 said:


> I honestly am turned off by them because I don’t want my flashlights to look like a NASCAR vehicle.



I fixed the garish lettering with bicycle inner tube a.k.a. "ranger bands" - gives the light some additional shock absorption as well, no more clacking when I set it down. 
Predator or Viking with the longer 2x 18650 makes for a nice form factor and great heft, and runtimes.
Great trouble light for checking out bumps in the night.


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## recDNA (Feb 13, 2018)

My Predator Pro just wouldn't work one night when I really needed it. Only lowest output came on. It had 2 brand new SF CR123A so I tried a protected and a unprotected 18650. Still only starter and stayed in lowest output.

Now I know it's undependable. I cleaned and lubed carefully using alcohol on contacts and nyogel on threads after cleaning still only low. Took out batteries left overnight and tried the next day same thing.

So I emailed dealer who blew me off to Armytek. They demanded video and even low looked bright on my phone cam so I gave up and threw it in a drawer for a month. Ran into it one day and decided to chuck it but tried a battery for laughs and it worked fine, magically. The thing is what good is it now? I can't sell it cuz I'm not a sleaze and don't want to waste batteries in a light I cannot depend on.


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## eh4 (Feb 13, 2018)

recDNA,
Definitely don't "Chuck them", a defective Armytek that's too frustrating to deal with warranty will still make an awesome host for a top notch driver. 
Someone should be rebuilding these puppies, I'm sure that there must be an elegant way to take advantage of the loosen/ tighten circuit pathways without strictly reverse engineering the Armytek setup.


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## PartyPete (Feb 13, 2018)

Without a doubt, quality issues have kept me from really considering one. For a product that is touted as tough there certainly seems to be quite a few issues with some models. 

Which is unfortunate because in certain forums out there people are strongly recommending them to virtually everyone and subsequently these folks buy them and come back months later to complain the light is broke...which in turn they either get lambasted or its just explained away as a lemon. 

Not to say, I wouldn't ever buy one, but many of us look at our lights as investments and expect them to perform under any condition...and not necessarily light duty decor that adorns a drawer full of fragile lights.


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## harro (Feb 13, 2018)

A lot of people subscribe to the ' once bitten, twice shy ' theory, and fair enough. A good friend went through the failure/bypass the tailcap/video proof/major hassle with getting any sort of customer service from Armytek, for his Predator Pro, and it also now sits unused.
I was far luckier with my Barracuda X-PL HI V2. Its only issue ( thusfar ) was a filthy, oily, very scratched piece of ' outhouse ' glass, that I assume Armytek class as 99.5% transperance ' Sapphire hard and clear ' lens glass. The lens is now clean, but still badly scratched. Everything else works fine, but you are always wondering when it will turn into a host.....
In Armytek's defence, they make an absolutely brilliant looking product. IMVHO, I don't think they have made a dud, looks wise. Some people are lucky, and get a reliable light, but from published tales of woe, a lot don't. If Armytek raised the standard of reliability of their lights to be on a par with just about every other major manufacturer, then they would be onto a winner.


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

recDNA said:


> One reason is if it breaks within warranty they demand a video showing the fault. It isn't always easy to do that with only phone video & it is a royal pita.



That is a stupid and ridiculous requirement - I agree, a Royal Pita...


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

harro said:


> A lot of people subscribe to the ' once bitten, twice shy ' theory, and fair enough. A good friend went through the failure/bypass the tailcap/video proof/major hassle with getting any sort of customer service from Armytek, for his Predator Pro, and it also now sits unused.
> I was far luckier with my Barracuda X-PL HI V2. Its only issue ( thusfar ) was a filthy, oily, very scratched piece of ' outhouse ' glass, that I assume Armytek class as 99.5% transperance ' Sapphire hard and clear ' lens glass. The lens is now clean, but still badly scratched. Everything else works fine, but you are always wondering when it will turn into a host.....
> In Armytek's defence, they make an absolutely brilliant looking product. IMVHO, I don't think they have made a dud, looks wise. Some people are lucky, and get a reliable light, but from published tales of woe, a lot don't. If Armytek raised the standard of reliability of their lights to be on a par with just about every other major manufacturer, then they would be onto a winner.



Agreed - their form factor is far and away better than many - like Emissar, etc. I'm seeing from you and all the others that that their reliability is really sketchy...


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## recDNA (Feb 13, 2018)

eh4 said:


> recDNA,
> Definitely don't "Chuck them", a defective Armytek that's too frustrating to deal with warranty will still make an awesome host for a top notch driver.
> Someone should be rebuilding these puppies, I'm sure that there must be an elegant way to take advantage of the loosen/ tighten circuit pathways without strictly reverse engineering the Armytek setup.


Ya but I have no such skill. Rather just buy another light that works. By the time I send it to Vinh and he mods it and sends back cheaper to just buy from his stock


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## wweiss (Feb 13, 2018)

recDNA said:


> My Predator Pro just wouldn't work one night when I really needed it. Only lowest output came on. It had 2 brand new SF CR123A so I tried a protected and a unprotected 18650. Still only starter and stayed in lowest output.
> 
> Now I know it's undependable. I cleaned and lubed carefully using alcohol on contacts and nyogel on threads after cleaning still only low. Took out batteries left overnight and tried the next day same thing.
> 
> So I emailed dealer who blew me off to Armytek. They demanded video and even low looked bright on my phone cam so I gave up and threw it in a drawer for a month. Ran into it one day and decided to chuck it but tried a battery for laughs and it worked fine, magically. The thing is what good is it now? I can't sell it cuz I'm not a sleaze and don't want to waste batteries in a light I cannot depend on.



I think there is a big market out there for modding these "hosts", as you suggest. I would willingly pay to have all my AT's modded with better drivers, etc. because they look so good (now if only I can grind off the laser lettering...)


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Feb 13, 2018)

I guess I've been lucky. One reason I like Armytek is that they offer the warmest LEDs of any AA light I can find. Good UI, too. I like them, but I admit I don't find a lot of practical use for Armytek lights. They're built so heavy (I presume for durability) that they make poor EDC lights. Maybe I haven't run into problems because I don't use mine much.


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## Ishango (Feb 13, 2018)

I too have posted about my experiences with AT before, so won't recap it here. But 3 out of 5 of my AT lights have failed on me. Two got replaced (Partner V1 and Partner V2) and now I have a V3 in place for those which works but has a minor flaw. My Prime A1 and Predator V2.5 work without an issue, but when I use them I always make sure to have a backup light available.


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## the0dore3524 (Feb 13, 2018)

Ishango said:


> I too have posted about my experiences with AT before, so won't recap it here. But 3 out of 5 of my AT lights have failed on me. Two got replaced (Partner V1 and Partner V2) and now I have a V3 in place for those which works but has a minor flaw. My Prime A1 and Predator V2.5 work without an issue, but when I use them I always make sure to have a backup light available.



Same here. I have two, one of which failed right out of the box from a two foot drop onto carpet. Other one seems to work fine. I just can’t justify using either of them knowing that they could fail at any moment. 

Armytek seems to be highly recommended on Reddit, which is the reason why I even took the plunge in the first place. I should’ve listened to my gut when I saw all the issues with QC on here. Reddit tends to recommend a lot more “budget” stuff. From what I’ve seen, and I believe someone else noted earlier, they seem to get recommended highly, but when someone takes the plunge and the light breaks down, the person who bought it and complains is either ostracized or their light is chalked up to being a lemon.

On a statistical basis, there is of course response bias. People with broken lights are much more likely to speak out as opposed to those who are satisfied with theirs. But for the volume of lights Armytek presumably produces and for being such a small company, the number of complaints is simply unacceptable. I certainly wouldn’t claim it to be statistically significant, but man! There is definitely way more complaints than there should be from a company that touts toughness and reliability as a primary selling feature.


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## HaileStorm (Feb 13, 2018)

I think discussions about ArmyTek in this forum died out after they stopped introducing their programmable Predators. It's the reason why I bought a Predator in the first place, I found their programmable UI to be incredible useful. And it made ArmyTek lights unique, it made them stand out in a sea of non-programmable lights. And now that they've stopped manufacturing them, Armytek is just another mundane flashlight company. 

Another thing is that people tend to gravitate towards more compact lights nowadays. I, for one, started gravitating towards single 16340 or AAA lights. 

Lastly, due to the saturation of the market with new brands popping up here and there, ArmyTek just sort of drowned. They really should bring back their programmable UI and apply it to their current lineup and smaller lights. I mean, how cool would it be to have a single AAA light that's fully programmable like the Predators of yore?

As for quality issues I've had my Predator 2.5 since it first came out. Somtime in 2012. In the 6yrs that I've owned it, I've had zero issues whatsoever. And I use mine mainly in marine environments. Heck, I've even gone snorkeling with it. That's apart from being dropped multiple times. Chalk it up to luck of the draw? I don't really know, but it works as perfectly as when I took it out of the box. Perhaps their quality control diminished over time.


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## niraya (Feb 14, 2018)

Tachead said:


> I agree with you about Zebralight but, I rate them far above Armytek. There lights are more advanced and efficient, more reliable, and there customer service is much better from my experience.



I use (mostly headlamps) about 6-8 hours daily every single day of the year, and the reason I put Armytek Wizards (I have 2 Pro and 1 non-Pro) above Zebralight headlamps is specially:

(for me at least) Better more useful UI (in Pro versions only - non-Pro sucks)

More useful wide TIR beam (TIR reflector with XHP50) versus either Flood or Floody Zebralight beam.

And in my experience Armytek is more reliable and less likely to break.

I do not care about the logos/writing one iota. And neither do I care whether the light is manufactured in Canada, China or Vanuatu. For me it is about useful dependable light-source only. 

And finally their warranty is superb. Me and my friends here buy from NKON in Netherland and if the light breaks within 10 years you send it back and they send you new replacement and compensate for shipping. They respond to email same day. I do not see any problem with that. Better than much shorter Zebralight warranty and neither you will have to send broken light to China.:twothumbs

I can't think of much possible improvements I would like, (and where Armytek is lacking vs Zebralight) except 1. better efficacy 2. higher CRI. But it is not that much important to me, to complain. But it will be a reason to buy their next released version. 

Just my personal experience and few more people I know personally, no hearsay


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## wweiss (Feb 14, 2018)

"......And finally their warranty is superb. Me and my friends here buy from NKON in Netherland and if the light breaks within 10 years you send it back and they send you new replacement and compensate for shipping. They respond to email same day. I do not see any problem with that. Better than much shorter Zebralight warranty and neither you will have to send broken light to China.:twothumbs"



@niraya: I agree - I use their headlights (4, 3 are pro) all the time - for work in vaults and out in the woods & caving. I share your experience with AT's service/return policy. Seems that experience is all over the map...

I always carry 2 spare lights when working or out in the wild - regardless of who made them....


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## niraya (Feb 14, 2018)

wweiss said:


> I always carry 2 spare lights when working or out in the wild - regardless of who made them....



Same here, always carry two 18650 and 1 AA or AAA headlamps as backup. Recently either 1. two Wizard Pro and Manker E02h or E03h or 2. Wizard Pro and Zebralight H600Fc and Manker E02h or E03h. 
Never had I been left in dark in any harsh weather/environment. :candle:


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## Grijon (Feb 14, 2018)

vadimax said:


> Personally for me ArmyTek is not an option because of their quality issues. Too many people had negative experience according to that forum.


This is it for me, too; quality is one of my top qualifiers when considering just about any purchase, and ArmyTek's track record excludes them from consideration for me.


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## Grijon (Feb 14, 2018)

Tachead said:


> Because they have very unreliable lights, deceptive marketing, exaggerated specs, and customer service and warranty support that is much more trouble then most companies.


^This, exactly!


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## bykfixer (Feb 14, 2018)

ArmyTek has been an ebb n flow brand off and on here for a while and lately seems to be in an ebb. 

When I arrived here in 015 there was lots of talk about them. It seemed like in 016 they fell out of favor in fashion. Then 017 a lot of the talk was about reliability. 

They are not alone in the exagerated specs game as true specs are becoming rare like honest politicians. 

I'd speculate that reliability woes and customer service issues is what has left a bad impression on the casual observer market. But lack of interest by the fashion crowd has led to the lack of discussion.


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## recDNA (Feb 14, 2018)

HaileStorm said:


> I think discussions about ArmyTek in this forum died out after they stopped introducing their programmable Predators. It's the reason why I bought a Predator in the first place, I found their programmable UI to be incredible useful. And it made ArmyTek lights unique, it made them stand out in a sea of non-programmable lights. And now that they've stopped manufacturing them, Armytek is just another mundane flashlight company.
> 
> Another thing is that people tend to gravitate towards more compact lights nowadays. I, for one, started gravitating towards single 16340 or AAA lights.
> 
> ...


.... until you REALLY need it....then I hope you are a videographer.


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## markr6 (Feb 14, 2018)

Bigburly912 said:


> I honestly am turned off by them because I don’t want my flashlights to look like a NASCAR vehicle.



[email protected]!!!!!!!&!%!&!!!

Classic response! I totally agree.


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## XR6Toggie (Feb 14, 2018)

recDNA said:


> .... until you REALLY need it....then I hope you are a videographer.



Excellent point. If you’re going to market yor lights as tough and tactical with the ‘name ‘Army’ in the brand you’d better make sure the reliability is top notch.


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## nbp (Feb 14, 2018)

It is unfortunate that many people have had bad experiences with Armytek. Personally, I have had three of their lights and have been very happy with them. The build quality is very good, the thick and grippy anodizing is outstanding, and the user interfaces are very practical and intuitive. The only reason that I sold my two Prime models is that after a while I decided I preferred tail switches to side buttons and went for the Partner model which I still have. However all three of my lights worked very well and have been used quite a lot, which I think really says something considering I have quite a few other custom and premium lights in the arsenal to choose from. I don’t buy very many Chinese made lights, but I do like Armyteks. I would agree that less script on the heads would be nice though.


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## eh4 (Feb 14, 2018)

One more thing about Armytek, 
when I was first following the excitement about the programmable, pre-V3 models, I remember oggling the specs and being impressed that there was a second, redundant circuit to make sure the light functioned on moonlight in the event of a catastrophic failure... I was thinking high voltage, or EMP strike, rolled over with a tractor, etc... 

I only got around to being willing to pay up after I'd missed the boat on warm programmable models, so I got in with the V3.
After my second light and second failure, which subsequently would only run on moonlight, I had to bite my tongue, roll my eyes, and admit that I'd been well trolled by a manufacturer that knew that their driver had some design or QC issues.
Both lights' issues appeared under dry, controlled conditions, just me in my darkened living room doing a little conservative redlining of the lights; manually strobing them with the battery tube tightened, switching between strobe and high by loosen/ tighten, letting batteries discharge on high, etc. 
Normal enough stuff, just to see what they'd do, and try to elicit any impending failure in a safe environment.

I do the same with any lights I'm going to rely on, 
I push any Zebralight I invest in, and had one Zebralight failure too! 
Apparently came on H1 in my pocket and the thermal sensor failed, or Something; all that I know for sure is that I noticed the light due to the heat, and it wouldn't come back to life with any fresh battery. 

- they didn't ask me to make videos or anything, 
I just sent it back with the custom pocket clip attached, and got the same light back with dings and pocket clip about 6 weeks later, repaired, no explanation of what went wrong (though I requested), and it got red lined thoroughly with no issues, and has been perfectly reliable ever since, edc, dropped and used daily.
Nobody is perfect, and I can respect Zebralight for giving a warranty period that some might consider on the shorter end, but promptly fixing any issues without any hassle, and having a generous policy on fixing lights out of warranty for a nominal cost... 
Run them hard at first, make sure they work as you expect, then treat them like valued tools, and they'll most likely become exactly that.


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## recDNA (Feb 14, 2018)

It's interesting to me you had the exact same issue. They understand WHY my light only functioned in moonlight yet demanded a ridiculous video and wouldn't give me return info without it. Now mine "works" again so I don't dare trust it yet can't send it back since it works (for now).


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## eh4 (Feb 14, 2018)

Yeah, it left a bad taste I my mouth after I went through the entire warranty process up to the "don't insure it" part, and put A and B together.


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## iamlucky13 (Feb 15, 2018)

From what I can see, their problem seems to be a quality control issue, rather than durability. Some folks have had multiple lights fail after relatively little use or small drops. Most of the rest of us seem to be able to put them through the ringer without issue.

I constantly forget I have my Tiara headlamp on if I'm wearing it over a stocking cap. As a result of then removing my stocking cap without thinking, it's had probably about ten 6+ foot drops onto hard laminate or concrete surfaces. Every time I hear that "clunk!" my first thought isn't, "I hope my headlamp is ok," but rather, "I hope I didn't dent the new floors."

The feel of the light and experience so far really inspire a lot of confidence for me.

But Armytek needs to get a handle on both their quality control and their customer service experience. It's pretty obvious here how much frustration there is with that, and they've got stiff competition from Zebralight, Olight, Manker, and even budget brands like Skilhunt.



wweiss said:


> That is a stupid and ridiculous requirement - I agree, a Royal Pita...



I completely get why this frustrates people, but in my opinion, it's better in some ways than what most companies do - I had to send a camera back to Canon at one point. Had they been unable to reproduce the problem it was having, they would have billed me for shipping and handling and something like a $40 fee just to look at it.

At least this way, you can get agreement there is a problem with the light before spending money on it.

Of course, not all problems will show up in video - hence part of the frustration.


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## niraya (Feb 15, 2018)

I asked again this week NKON as well as Armytek.ca what should I do in case any of my Armytek lights breaks within 10 years. Both told me I just have to send it to them (no video is required at all) and it will be fixed or I will be send replacement and shipping fee compensation after they receive my light. So are those mentioned warranty problems with video difficulties really recent? :shrug:


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## Tachead (Feb 15, 2018)

niraya said:


> I asked again this week NKON as well as Armytek.ca what should I do in case any of my Armytek lights breaks within 10 years. Both told me I just have to send it to them (no video is required at all) and I will be send replacement and shipping fee compensation after they receive my light. So are those mentioned warranty problems with video difficulties very recent? :shrug:



My last one was just before Christmas. I dealt with Armytek directly(not a dealer) and I had to make them a video(2 actually). 

They are probably just telling you what you want to hear. Not to mention, the best warranty is the one you don't have to use. A company could have the best warranty on the planet but, if you constantly get left in the dark at the most inopportune times, it means little imo. Reliability is one of the best traits a flashlight can have and as you can see from this thread alone, this is a trait AT lights lack.


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## niraya (Feb 15, 2018)

Tachead said:


> My last one was just before Christmas. And, I had to make them a video(2 actually).
> 
> They are probably just telling you what you want to hear. Not to mention, the best warranty is the one you don't have to use. A company could have the best warranty on the planet but, if you constantly get left in the dark at the most inopportune times, it means little imo. Reliability is one of the best traits a flashlight can have and as you can see from this thread alone, this is a trait AT lights lack.



How in the world can they know what I want to hear? And where is the time for making any video when light will be already posted and tracking nr. send to them? And what exactly do expect from them? Sending new light to anyone who send them email claiming his flashlight broke? :shakehead

And yes,I have/had many Armytek lights over years and I know few more people living here with same lights, and none of us ever needed to care about Armytek warranty, none of us had been left in dark with Armytek, 

I am just trying to verify what I read here.


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## Tachead (Feb 15, 2018)

niraya said:


> How in the world can they know what I want to hear? And where is the time for making any video when light will be already posted and tracking nr. send to them? And what exactly do expect from them? Sending new light to anyone who send them email claiming his flashlight broke? :shakehead
> 
> And yes,I have/had many Armytek lights over years and I know few more people living here with same lights, and none of us ever needed to care about Armytek warranty, none of us had been left in dark with Armytek,
> 
> I am just trying to verify what I read here.



Every person I have ever heard from has had to send them a video as part of their warranty claim. People have criticized this since their company opened several years ago. No other flashlight company on the market that I am aware of ask for a video. Most just ask you what the problem is, have you send them the broken light, and then repair it or send you a new one. 

Well, you are one of the lucky ones. Many, many have not had the same luck. Personally, I would not trust the ones you have and always bring a backup. 

If you want to verify just check their sub forum, run a search on CPF, BLF, Reddit, Yourtube, etc. there is reports all over the internet(both of failures and of people issues with their customer service and need for a video).


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## niraya (Feb 15, 2018)

Tachead said:


> Every person I have ever heard from has had to send them a video as part of their warranty claim. People have criticized this since their company opened several years ago. No other flashlight company on the market that I am aware of ask for a video. Most just ask you what the problem is, have you send them the broken light, and then repair it or send you a new one.
> 
> Well, you are one of the lucky ones. Many, many have not had the same luck. Personally, I would not trust the ones you have and always bring a backup.
> 
> If you want to verify just check their sub forum, run a search on CPF, BLF, Reddit, Yourtube, etc. there is reports all over the internet(both of failures and of people issues with their customer service and need for a video).



The thing is: I send them email this week (NKON and Armytek.ca) both told me I just need to send the broken light, gave me address and ask me to email them tracking nr. - how can any video be made after I post the light already. And yes I have seen some angry posts about video requirements on reddit and elsewhere, but they were so ridiculous, I just prefer checking the reality personally. And yes, I believe they ask some people for video, but even that seems completely reasonable to me. 

On different topic, I see people worry about some writing/logos on flashlight, about how much it matters where it is manufactured .... etc etc. Everybody has his ideas about perfect light for him. I just recently wrote down some points that I cant stand on any flashlight no matter what:
Not having moonlight bellow 0.2 lm
Not being able to turn ON/OFF at moonlight
Strobe not well hidden
Visible PWM 
Next mode memory 
Titanium or stainless steel body 
Moving between all levels in one direction only
Blue/Magenta tint 
Too big/heavy 
Not being able to use it in headband (hands-free use) 
Having any kind of zoom 
Not being waterproof 
Shutting off suddenly without going to emergency moonlight first 
High parasitic drain 
Red Loctite threadlocker

Armytek is one of few flashlights I found that fits in, and same time I put number of them through very harsh environments and never had any failed. So I am sorry some people had problems that I never encountered, but we are all different and our experiences and our requirements are not same. 

BTW I read so many post here recently about problems people have with Zebralight. Does it make me think Zebralights are not worth trying? Definitively not, I personally found their lights to be great no matter what I read here, I just had to try them personally to see that.


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## Tachead (Feb 15, 2018)

niraya said:


> BTW I read so many post here recently about problems people have with Zebralight. Does it make me think Zebralights are not worth trying? Definitively not, I personally found their lights to be great no matter what I read here, I just had to try them personally to see that.



All companies have issues from time to time, especially when brand new models and drivers are released. The difference is that AT has had and unusually high number of issues, almost constantly, since they opened shop years ago(I have followed them since they opened so I know). A former employee even posted on Reddit about how high their failure rate was on some models and it was crazy high. 

Anyway, enjoy your AT's. I honestly hope you don't have any troubles but, if you do, don't say we didn't warn you.


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## Modernflame (Feb 15, 2018)

niraya said:


> Not having moonlight bellow 0.2 lm
> Not being able to turn ON/OFF at moonlight
> Strobe not well hidden
> Visible PWM
> ...



I don't wish to enter this debate, but I wanted to say that this is a very thoughtful list. I don't agree with everything on it, but I appreciate that you've articulated it so clearly. I would add that I don't like lights that can't lego. I'm in a minority, to be sure, but I'm leery of lights that don't have user replaceable switches and lenses, and that can't become hybrids with other models.


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## Woods Walker (Feb 16, 2018)

I really like the Wizard and Tiara. Have both the pro and standard versions. One of the best overall beams for an outdoors headlamp I have seen. Have some Primes, older Predator (standard) and Viking (pro). I prefer the Standard versions for all of them. I never paid full price. My last Tiara was 28 bucks and the Viking 34.


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## vadimax (Feb 16, 2018)

niraya said:


> How in the world can they know what I want to hear? And where is the time for making any video when light will be already posted and tracking nr. send to them? And what exactly do expect from them? Sending new light to anyone who send them email claiming his flashlight broke? :shakehead
> 
> And yes,I have/had many Armytek lights over years and I know few more people living here with same lights, and none of us ever needed to care about Armytek warranty, none of us had been left in dark with Armytek,
> 
> I am just trying to verify what I read here.



First off, you compare apples to oranges. NKON is NOT ArmyTek. And their customer support is sky high: they never ask you stupid things about or to do. They take the risk of lemons away from the customer. I even suspect that they do their own quality control before selling something. As an example: while ordering a Zebralight SC5c II asked them about tint deviations. The answer was: not a problem, we will personally select the best one for you.

Do you expect the same attitude from ArmyTek? Perhaps, NKON is a rare sample when buying from a dealer is way better than from a manufacturer. Most likely, you have not a slightest idea how many ArmyTeks they had to return.


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## niraya (Feb 16, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> I really like the Wizard and Tiara. Have both the pro and standard versions. One of the best overall beams for an outdoors headlamp I have seen. Have some Primes, older Predator (standard) and Viking (pro). I prefer the Standard versions for all of them. I never paid full price. My last Tiara was 28 bucks and the Viking 34.


I also have Pro and Standard versions, but for me the complete separation between three moonlights and three main modes by double click on Pro versions is ingenious. It makes it the best UI I ever used on any flashlight. In Standard version you can't circle within moonlight modes only, which I actually do very often on Pro. Also the Pro Wizard has wider beam which I found more useful.


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## niraya (Feb 16, 2018)

vadimax said:


> First off, you compare apples to oranges. NKON is NOT ArmyTek.



No! I do not compare them at all, but since I bought some lights from each (some from NKON and some from Armytek.ca. Of course I know what are they in the first place. I asked both about the warranty and what exactly am I to do when the light I bought there is broken within 10 years.


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## Tachead (Feb 16, 2018)

niraya said:


> No! I do not compare them at all, but since I bought some lights from each (some from NKON and some from Armytek.ca. Of course I know what are they in the first place. I asked both about the warranty and what exactly am I to do when the light I bought there is broken within 10 years.


I bet if told AT you actually did have a warranty issue they would ask you for a video. I would take what AT told you with a grain of salt.


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## Woods Walker (Feb 16, 2018)

niraya said:


> I also have Pro and Standard versions, but for me the complete separation between three moonlights and three main modes by double click on Pro versions is ingenious. It makes it the best UI I ever used on any flashlight. In Standard version you can't circle within moonlight modes only, which I actually do very often on Pro. Also the Pro Wizard has wider beam which I found more useful.



I like them both but for me the Standard works better when cold and beaten down. Once accidentally triggered the lithium ion mode on a Pro Tiara effectively killing it in the field. I didn't have a 14500. I needed to use 2XAA and some wire to jump it back into life then change the mode. I find the flashing button on the Pro more annoying than of value. Once I tried to turn it on all the time as a maker when sleeping in a bivy bag. I turned the "tactical mode" on by mistake and it was hell changing it back at 5F..... 11pm. Again cold and tried played into the user error. Tonight I was breaking down my day camp late. When hiking out in the dark some deer broke cover and somehow ran right by me. A rare mistake in judgement forced by the terrain. It's easier to jump the Standard UI to Turbo than the Pro which I did in this case to see what the heck was going on. That said I used a XHP-50 pro Wizard for a multi day winter camping trip last weekend in the Dacks. It was just fine. As for the beam profile that has more to do with LED than UI. For example my XM-L2s all look the same pro or standard. I think there might be differences between XHP-50 with XP-L Wizards for beam profile. I own those as well. In any case both have a memory so often just use one mode for hours when hiking or in camp.


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## niraya (Feb 17, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> As for the beam profile that has more to do with LED than UI. For example my XM-L2s all look the same pro or standard. I think there might be differences between XHP-50 with XP-L Wizards for beam profile. I own those as well. In any case both have a memory so often just use one mode for hours when hiking or in camp.



That is correct, I also have Wizard Pro with XHP50 (yellow button) as well as with XP-L (white button) and the XP-L Pro has the same narrower beam as standard version. In any case I like the XHP50 Wizard Pro more than any flashlight I ever touched


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## niraya (Feb 17, 2018)

Tachead said:


> I bet if told AT you actually did have a warranty issue they would ask you for a video. I would take what AT told you with a grain of salt.


No, you are plain wrong! They already gave me address where to send it and ask me to just email back the tracking number to them.


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## Tachead (Feb 17, 2018)

niraya said:


> No, you are plain wrong! They already gave me address where to send it and ask me to just email back the tracking number to them.


What did you tell them was wrong with it?


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## niraya (Feb 17, 2018)

Tachead said:


> What did you tell them was wrong with it?


 Broken rubber ON/OFF button. An regarding the bet you suggest - lets bet USD 1000 - settled with Paypal, OK?


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## Tachead (Feb 17, 2018)

niraya said:


> Broken rubber ON/OFF button. An regarding the bet you suggest - lets bet USD 1000 - settled with Paypal, OK?


I have dealt with them a few times now(once about 2 months ago)and they always wanted a video and had me do a bunch of troubleshooting. This was the case for most other people that posted on multiple forums as well. If they changed that policy that's good but, I will still never buy from them again. Their lights are unreliable garbage imo and I don't support companies that aren't honest. 

Anyway, I am not interested in discussing this further enjoy your AT's.


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## nbp (Feb 18, 2018)

Settle down Tac. Just because someone else has had a different experience than you doesn’t mean they are automatically wrong. It’s OK for some to like brands you don’t. The beauty of competition: lot’s of choices!


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## Woods Walker (Feb 18, 2018)

I stand corrected with the flashing button being worthless on the pro. I am in the Tipi with woodstove running on the AT. Weathered the storm last night. So anyways had the headlamp ceiling bouncing for area light. Noticed the flashing turning yellow and then redder. Changed battery which is good as have walk outside soon. The battery only has enough power to push this phone up 2% with the Lii100.


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## wweiss (Feb 18, 2018)

Winter camp? One of the best times to be out in the wild. We had 8” in Weston CT - where on the AT are you?
The UI on ArmyTek has always been my favorite. Just need to take a spare along whenever I’m way out in the field...


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## scs (Feb 19, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> I stand corrected with the flashing button being worthless on the pro. I am in the Tipi with woodstove running on the AT. Weathered the storm last night. So anyways had the headlamp ceiling bouncing for area light. Noticed the flashing turning yellow and then redder. Changed battery which is good as have walk outside soon. The battery only has enough power to push this phone up 2% with the Lii100.



Definitely not useless when it warns of a nearly depleted cell, but until then, a flash of bright green every 5 seconds letting the user know the cell is good? Now that's useless.


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## eh4 (Feb 19, 2018)

iamlucky13 said:


> From what I can see, their problem seems to be a quality control issue, rather than durability. Some folks have had multiple lights fail after relatively little use or small drops. Most of the rest of us seem to be able to put them through the ringer without issue.
> 
> I constantly forget I have my Tiara headlamp on if I'm wearing it over a stocking cap. As a result of then removing my stocking cap without thinking, it's had probably about ten 6+ foot drops onto hard laminate or concrete surfaces. Every time I hear that "clunk!" my first thought isn't, "I hope my headlamp is ok," but rather, "I hope I didn't dent the new floors."
> 
> ...



I love the body build quality, love the doubled o rings, the deep reflector and head design (predator), the anodizing, the threads, the tube wall thickness...
The overall effect is great engineering, imo, especially with a 2x 18650 tube (predator).

I've have the persistent feeling that a sweet turn key operation was turned over to new management, and that corners were then cut in the basic components and labor areas. Shear speculation, just a hayseed speculating about the moon and cheese. 
I think the body design is top notch.


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## Woods Walker (Feb 19, 2018)

wweiss said:


> Winter camp? One of the best times to be out in the wild. We had 8” in Weston CT - where on the AT are you?
> The UI on ArmyTek has always been my favorite. Just need to take a spare along whenever I’m way out in the field...



Actually in a Cornwell right now. Getting ready to turn in for the night. I have an Armytek XHP-50 Pro, Nextorch E51 and Nitecore lantern. Oddly I survived the weekend and still alive. Armytek and Nitecore.... Just like that..... LOL!


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## puglife (Feb 19, 2018)

i love my wizards pro (v3 xhp50 and v2 cri90 pro), since i've got them my other lights are pretty much useless.. but the v2 runs hot on the last mode, i try not to use it a lot in fear of burning the LED :sweatbut its a nice hands warmer in the winter) 

I don't really care of the writing, i use my lights when it's dark.. so i don't see them  They don't have failed me (yet) but i would definitively buy another one if they broke, i just wish they had a better QC , then it would be the almost perfect light :wave:


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## wweiss (Feb 19, 2018)

Woods Walker said:


> Actually in a Cornwell right now. Getting ready to turn in for the night. I have an Armytek XHP-50 Pro, Nextorch E51 and Nitecore lantern. Oddly I survived the weekend and still alive. Armytek and Nitecore.... Just like that..... LOL!



Glad you survived - and have the minimum required light backups. There is nothing quite like camping in evening snow and waking to a bright winter wonderland. Assuming of course, your shelter is secure, bedroll was warm and dry and the fire still has some embers...


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## Tac Gunner (Feb 21, 2018)

I have always wanted to try an Armytek. They are one of the few manufacturers who offer a wide variety of AA lights but the very inconsistent quality and customer service that I have read about always kept me away. 

When I first came to the forums the Predator models were held in high regards as a solid built, reliable light, with very efficient drivers. As time went on though this seemed to slip away and the table seemed to turn upside.I would honestly like to give them a chance but at ~$60 for the AA model I want it is a bit of gamble when I know my Fenix's will take whatever I throw at them and if they do fail Fenix Outfitters will take care of me.


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## scs (Feb 22, 2018)

When an Armytek light goes bad, it's unclear whether the cause is poor circuit design, low quality components, poor manufacturing, careless assembly, bad QC, or a combination of those factors.

V2.5 Predator and Viking appear to be the peak for those models. The current gen Predator and Viking is undeniably the result of "value engineering," which might be an euphemism.


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## ChibiM (Feb 22, 2018)

Armytek is one of the brands that I have never owned. I might have to get my hands on some to try them out myself!


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## MX421 (Feb 24, 2018)

I really liked the features touted by Armytek, so i got a few of them awhile back from a few different sources. Have not had an issue with my regular Armytek flashlights of which a have a few. However, i have had issues with 3 out of the four headlamps i bought. One was returned successfully through a dealer, the other was sent to a dealer, but got lost in the mail, and the last was through Armytek where they requested a video. I had a lot going on and couldn't hassle with it at the time. The only headlamp that worked is still working, but i don't trust it like i do my Zebralights. BTW, i did have a Zebralight go out on me and it was (barely) under warranty. Just sent it in and they fixed it and sent it back, no hassle.


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## scs (Feb 25, 2018)

Hmm...


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## iamlucky13 (Feb 25, 2018)

Tac Gunner said:


> I have always wanted to try an Armytek. They are one of the few manufacturers who offer a wide variety of AA lights but the very inconsistent quality and customer service that I have read about always kept me away.
> 
> When I first came to the forums the Predator models were held in high regards as a solid built, reliable light, with very efficient drivers. As time went on though this seemed to slip away and the table seemed to turn upside.I would honestly like to give them a chance but at ~$60 for the AA model I want it is a bit of gamble when I know my Fenix's will take whatever I throw at them and if they do fail Fenix Outfitters will take care of me.



If you want to reduce the amount of money at stake, watch for sales. It seems a couple times a year, they offer some really good pricing on a handful of models. Sooner or later, there's a good chance one you're interested in will come up.


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## ven (Feb 25, 2018)

Had a couple of armyteks, both the pro v2.5 versions. Viking cool which i have no more, too cold for me although i did like the beam pattern. Still in my possession is the predator pro v2.5 warm..............damn i do love this light. Real nice quality all round, ano is excellent and love the matte black(i do keep away from all things oily and greasy). I like the way i can select what level and lock it at that, so i have a medium level mainly used. The high is just a quick head twist away. I can click it as many times as i want, always stays in that mode. So for this light, i do like the fact you have to loosen/tighten head to change modes. Now i will admit i have never got the hang of the programming..................honestly i just cant be bothered nor have interest anymore. I am happy as is anyway. To me from what i have read, its pretty obvious something has happened QC wise since the v2.5. Maybe Stevie Wonder works on the QC line, who knows. But i have read enough to not give me confidence in investing in a new version(not matter how tempting.........and it is!). So my very tiny experience has been good and issue free, if i have a failure then as said, a good company shows in how it handles customers. Cant comment here as i have not had to.

A way to protect the buyer is buy from a reputable shop, one where its easy to return any faulty goods without shipping overseas for weeks...........months! If i want an armytek, i will not buy direct, just as i wont with zebralight. So no singling out for me, i just want a level of protection if i am spending ~$100/£80 or so. 

Agree or not, i can see where some manufacturers require a video, a lot can be lost in interpretation...............no doubt a lot can be fixed without sending off! Not all armytek customers are seasoned flashaholics, so from 1000's of sales world wide, some kind of system needs to be used to protect the manufacturer along with potentially saving a customer sending off and without a lights for month/s.

New drivers, new LED's, always seeking higher outputs to keep up with the lumen demand. More efficient drivers to keep things running as high and as long as possible . Maybe a catch 22, wait and do too much testing and the latest LED is out and you look left in the dark by other manufacturers. Rush out and risk many potential issues from fails..............Of course more to it, but its not really a business i would be too confident in and hats off to the small companies who make a success of it! . On CPF we are the most demanding and dedicated customer, we want more than just a light!


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## scs (Feb 26, 2018)

Here's your most technically advanced flashlight in the world:
Recent posts about optic and review: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/54675#comment-1285377


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## SKV89 (Feb 26, 2018)

I have an Armytek Wizard Pro v3 XPL WW and it has a beautiful tint that is better than any of my other head lamps. The build quality is excellent and just twisting the cap in place you can feel how much nicer/smoother it is than other flashlights yet it is not heavily lubed. I've found lumen test that shows some AT lights actually exceed or very close to their advertised lumens, which is not common in this industry.

However, their god awful customer service, or lack-of customer service, scares a lot of customers away. I was trying to buy a bunch of Armytek flashlights that were on sale because I liked the quality of my Wizard so much but couldn't even. You can see my post here.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?443962-Armytek-doesn-t-ship-to-US-anymore

AT makes good products but if they want a successful business, they first need to improve on their customer service.


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## jonathanluu2 (Feb 26, 2018)

Why do I avoid ArmyTek now?
A) I have had a Wizard Pro replaced 4 timesA1) XML-2. Original purchase, right when the first Wizards hit the market. Driver had an issue from day 1. No need for video to return though.
A2) XML-2 HI CRI. Replacement took ~1mo, but they covered shipping. One of the first HI CRI 18650 headlamps. 
A3) XML-2 Warm. Same as above, but this time the driver only partially died, only working in some modes.
A4) XHP-50 Warm. Was so exited for upped output, one of the first XHP-50 18650 headlamps. Died the day I got it after running on turbo in a bucket of water.
A5) XHP-50 Warm. Replacement of the above, currently works and is a dedicated bike light untillll...??​B) Bought a warm XHP-50 version for a friend and THEY had issues with the driver and had to replace it.
C) Tacky "nascar" writing has gotten worse
D) I have had a Zebralight since before Armytek was around and the light has endured near the same abuse, yet has still held up.
E) Their new form factor on the Wizard pro's just looks...odd.
F) I will agree with others that something can be said about marketing your product at a price and saying, "This is our price, and thats final." All the sales and promotions with cheesy emails just ends up sounding desperate. 

I had to video document every dead light after the first replacement, but I received a free (albeit delayed) upgrade every time, so I didnt take issue with it much. I will admit, I use headlamps exclusively, so I have not tried any of their flashlights, so I am biased. I use one of Zebralights HI CRI XHP-50 models now, but will miss:

1) ArmyTek UI
2) Magnetic tailcap
3) Matte Anodizing
4) Blinking voltage indicator (my surviving model only blinks when initially turned on, and subsequently when the voltage begins to dip.)
5) Armytek always seemed to be on the cusp of innovation with the headlamps, but their driver issues dissolved my trust in them, and now Zebralight has an edge on the market with new LED tech.


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## wweiss (Feb 26, 2018)

jonathanluu2 said:


> Why do I avoid ArmyTek now?
> A) I have had a Wizard Pro replaced 4 timesA1) XML-2. Original purchase, right when the first Wizards hit the market. Driver had an issue from day 1. No need for video to return though.
> A2) XML-2 HI CRI. Replacement took ~1mo, but they covered shipping. One of the first HI CRI 18650 headlamps.
> A3) XML-2 Warm. Same as above, but this time the driver only partially died, only working in some modes.
> ...



Well written and on point - I feel the same way. Although I have had better luck with the 5 units I have of theirs. 
The right question here is, "Would I trust AT enough to backpack only AT units into a 8 mile campsite in the Yellowstone wilderness?" "No, I would not."


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## Rifter (Feb 28, 2018)

Well ive owned 2. Both are now broken, both are because their super tough potted drivers crapped out. After talking with armytek about it i was left with such little faith in their RMA system/process i decided to not even send them back.

IMO they are advertising their lights as being tactical and tough and trying to extract that level of pricing from people while offering nothing better than cheap china crap products as far as actual quality goes.

Id much rather spend $10 on a cheap convoy host, few bucks on a good driver, few bucks on a LED of my choice, spend 10 min putting it together and just use that.

As far as small sized EDC light i moved to O-light, cheaper and way better quality IMO.


TLDR they sell overpriced junk


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## eh4 (Feb 28, 2018)

they've made decisions and done "work" to earn their reputation here, they'll have to make new decisions and do some real work if they want a new one.


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## recDNA (Mar 1, 2018)

eh4 said:


> they've made decisions and done "work" to earn their reputation here, they'll have to make new decisions and do some real work if they want a new one.


The need to make a video of a failing light to get an rma is a pita. I won't buy any more Armytek. Even more annoying is that some members didn't have to do a vid to get an rma. Nobody would go through the inconvenience and expense of sending back a light that works fine.


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## wweiss (Mar 1, 2018)

I wonder if AT reads these forums...


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## IlluminationDomination (Mar 1, 2018)

I never had one. Reading threads like this was a big part of it.Every manufacturer will have some issues with their lights. Some seem to have a lot more.

I have a Zebralight SC62. It has worked perfectly for over 3 years.

My other lights are Fenix, Olight and a few Thrunite. I am fortunate to have NOT had any issues with any of them. A few modded lights also.


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## nbp (Mar 1, 2018)

recDNA said:


> The need to make a video of a failing light to get an rma is a pita. I won't buy any more Armytek. Even more annoying is that some members didn't have to do a vid to get an rma. Nobody would go through the inconvenience and expense of sending back a light that works fine.



One thing I have thought of regarding the videos. I suspect many in the general public who grew up with one button on/off maglites etc. might get confused with more complicated user interfaces. I bet there are plenty of “malfunctioning lights” from a variety of brands that are in actuality the result of user error. A video might weed out those issues so they are only taking back truly defective lights.


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## recDNA (Mar 1, 2018)

Ya I don't care. No other manufacturers of anything I've ever purchased asked for video to get RMA for a defective product. I'm supposed to give them a pass because they presume I am an idiot? No.


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## nbp (Mar 1, 2018)

Ok, well I guess when you start it you can run your flashlight company however you want.


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## Woods Walker (Mar 1, 2018)

So I got these two lights in the mail to my house from Canada yesterday for 54 and change. That's just over 27 dollars each shipped.












Look at this. A 2XAA light with double springs and 2X O-rings on the head and tail threads for 27 bucks to my door. Even the threads were lubed.






Best part being I won the NW tint lottery.






Already dropped it about 4 times by mistake... Kept flying off the seat of my trunk.... hitting the door and going on the floor mat. That last time it magically fell out when opening the truck door to find it. LOL! Still works. The light feels great in my hand. I will field test both of them after some use. They will get dunked in a brook just for fun. All of my AT lights were purchased like that. Gotten on the cheap.


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## recDNA (Mar 1, 2018)

nbp said:


> Ok, well I guess when you start it you can run your flashlight company however you want.


No need. I simply won't buy from Armytek nor give them a pass on poor customer service.


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## nbp (Mar 1, 2018)

With the ease of taking and sending pix and videos nowadays I wouldn’t be surprised if in the future many more companies used them to diagnose problems with products. If it’s simple to correct, maybe the consumer can avoid being without their XYZ product for days or weeks or the company can send parts or instructions more quickly.


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## bykfixer (Mar 1, 2018)

^^ This!!

Nuf said


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## ChrisGarrett (Mar 1, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> ^^ This!!
> 
> Nuf said



I was looking at their Tiara v.1 XM-L headlight last week, for $27.49 from Illumination Supply, but a) I don't use the 3 I already have and b) this thread.

If we all liked the same crap, it would be a boring world.

Chris


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## bykfixer (Mar 1, 2018)

What?


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## ChrisGarrett (Mar 1, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> What?



Que?

Chris


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## SubLGT (Jan 28, 2019)

Armytek seems to be fading away as a company? I have to wonder if they are being hindered by warranty costs.

Nothing new has come out over the last year that I have heard about. A new Armytek light powered by a 21700 cell would be interesting. 

Two of my 3 Armytek flashlights have minor electronic glitches. My 4 Zebralights are free of glitches, but others here have reported electronic glitches with their Zebralights.


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## MeMeMe (Jan 28, 2019)

I have generally come to the conclusion that as a product, they are no better or worse than the other mid to high end lights out there, and their right angle AA/18650/18350 lights represent pretty good value and functionality as a general light, head-lamp, bike-light with adapter, etc. 

Customer service ... is an afterthought I think, and accuracy of their website / product specs also seems that way, but as the saying goes, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so perhaps if they dialed it down, put an emphasis on accuracy (honesty), and stepped up customer service, the perception would be no different from other brands in their price range.

The musical pricing tends to be a bit much. They have sales about 50% of the time it seems .... if they just picked competitive prices and stuck with it, I think it would do them a service.


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## neutralwhite (Jan 29, 2019)

what about if an ArmyTek was LED swapped/modded well. 
would there still be a possibility of issues then likely?.


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## vadimax (Jan 29, 2019)

I guess the primary Armytek’s problem is price/quality ratio. You may sell expensive lights if their quality is top notch and you replace them on first request if a lemon occurs (there is no 100% quality unless you scrupulously check every produced item). But you cannot place a price tag high if your customer is forced to play lottery and then requested to produce some idiotic malfunction videos to explain (prove) the manufacturer what is wrong.

More of that, some owners have noticed that their Armyteks are way below specification.


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## aginthelaw (Jan 29, 2019)

I had 3 defective armytek lights. 2 Were sent back after posting a video of the defect and new lights were sent out, the process taking several weeks. The last was replaced without sending back and based solely on the description of the problem. They are sturdy and seem bulletproof, but they’re made by humans so I don’t expect much


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## adept1 (Jan 29, 2019)

I've never owned one, but I was always turned off by all the writing on their lights and stories of reliability problems. Their matte finish looks great though.


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## wweiss (Jan 30, 2019)

I like the UI of the 'Prime' series and their headlights. The color of beam is ok and the TIR optics are ok. However, I will always carry at least two AT's and one other brand with me on night hikes. It's a good practice to have backups in any situation, but AT's give me the feeling I need extra insurance. My Alpha Ready-Made, however, needs no heavy backup - just one other model and extra batteries...


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## MX421 (Feb 3, 2019)

wweiss said:


> I like the UI of the 'Prime' series and their headlights. The color of beam is ok and the TIR optics are ok. However, I will always carry at least two AT's and one other brand with me on night hikes. It's a good practice to have backups in any situation, but AT's give me the feeling I need extra insurance. My Alpha Ready-Made, however, needs no heavy backup - just one other model and extra batteries...


To each their own of course, glad you are happy with your AT lights. 
I really wanted to like my AT lights, and i tried most of their tactical light line-up. i find i gravitate towards other brands now. The only AT light i still consistently turn to is the Barracuda. I really like that light and i have a back-up of it should it fail. It hasn't yet, so i consider myself lucky. I agree that with any light you need backups, that is definitely a good practice.




niraya said:


> The thing is: I send them email this week (NKON and Armytek.ca) both told me I just need to send the broken light, gave me address and ask me to email them tracking nr. - how can any video be made after I post the light already. And yes I have seen some angry posts about video requirements on reddit and elsewhere, but they were so ridiculous, I just prefer checking the reality personally. And yes, I believe they ask some people for video, but even that seems completely reasonable to me.
> 
> On different topic, I see people worry about some writing/logos on flashlight, about how much it matters where it is manufactured .... etc etc. Everybody has his ideas about perfect light for him. I just recently wrote down some points that I cant stand on any flashlight no matter what:
> Not having moonlight bellow 0.2 lm
> ...



I like most of your list. I would love to have a Titanium Zebralight!

For EDC, I now tend to gravitate towards headlamps, specifically Zebralights. Comparing my last working AT headlamp to my Zebralight headlamps, i find:



Putting a Zebralight headlamp next to a AT Pro Headlamp, I consider the AT clunky and large in comparison.
I prefer the new Zebralight UI where i can program it to my liking, and even come close to the AT UI if i prefer. I find it grweat that i can program it to a child, or illiterate non-flashlight user, friendly mode that won't blind others...
AT has a better clip for their headlamps, even if it does tend to scratch the light because of its grip on the flashlight. Luckily this accessory fits my Zebralight headlamps as well
One of the AT headlamps that went out on me had a high CRI emitter with decent brightness/lumen specs that also had a nice warm tint when it worked. The newer Zebralights now have Hi CRI emitters, although the warmest still isn't as warm (my preference) as the old AT Hi CRI
AT has a removable magnet on their Pro Headlamp models. I ordered extra tailcaps when i placed a direct order with Zebralight and got some magnets and glued them on the old tailcaps so i could switch them out when i wanted the magnet.
Waterproofness is the last specification where AT still places higher in my comparison of the two lights. I've read some of the older Zebralight, especilly the AA models, have failed when subjected to water tests/operations, so i'm not sure i trust my Zebralights in any water depths more than the backyard pool. Therefore, i have to ensure the Zebralights are securely attached to me, in a boat bag or hatch when i am boating.
Warranty. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, i, like others on this thread, found the video requirement cumbersome and at the time i didn't have the time to "hassle" with it. I had one Zebralight (my favorite H602w too!) fail on me just inside the warranty period. It was fixed in around a month if i recall correctly. Further, i've seen many posts where people have sent in Zebralight out of warranty to be fixed for $15. I think thats better than the 10 year "no hassle" warranty from AT.

These are just my own personal comparisons to get me where i am now with my lighting preferences (headlamp that can also be a EDC mainly). Armytek actually wins in a few categories (3, 5, 6 for me), but because of my experience, i'd rather make things work by other means with my Zebralights than rely on AT. I was and still am on a tighter light budget this past year, and the only lights i've bought on that much smaller budget for EDC/worklights are...Zebralights. For other than EDC/Headlamp requirements, i have enough lights to serve the other needs, including some Armyteks. If i were to need another light for any of those other required uses, i'd be more likely to buy a Malkoff, Olight, or Fenix over Armytek based on my personal experience. Its too bad really, most other manufacturers don't take a few of my comparison issues seriously (waterproof for me because i do a lot of boating), thus I won't consider them. Malkoff is the only light that IMO has a tougher body/host than AT. I like the idea others have brought up that the AT would make good hosts...


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## iamlucky13 (Feb 4, 2019)

neutralwhite said:


> what about if an ArmyTek was LED swapped/modded well.
> would there still be a possibility of issues then likely?.



That should not inherently change the likelihood of issues, although it does raise the possibility of breaking something while performing the mod.

That said, there have been some users figure out how to get the bezel off and swap the LED's. A regular on another forum swapped a Nichia 144 high CRI into his Wizard Pro in place of the XHP50, with reported excellent results. Armytek apparently liked the idea and was discussing releasing a special edition production version. I think it's been over a year now, however, with no recent updates.

The owner of the Virence.com high CRI emitter store also makes his own boards for the Wizard and Tiara headlamps for 4x Nichia E21A, one of the highest CRI emitters currently available. I don't know if he is still selling the modded headlamps on request, because he has taken the listing off his site. However, he does still sell the MCPCB for users to make their own mods. I'm planning on trying it myself soon on Tiara 1a Pro.


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## wweiss (Feb 4, 2019)

MX421: I agree - AT's have double O-rings and no issues with water. My one Zebralight can not stand out in the rain without penetration into the battery tube...


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## Stefano (Feb 24, 2019)

As many know, I'm a fan of Zebralight but I have bought many Armytek Headlamps and after having used some of them for a long time I can bring my opinion.
If I remember correctly I bought my first Armytek (Wizard XP-L) in 2016 - I bought it on the Dutch website as a light for guests when hiking with more people (I do not like to put my precious Zebralights in inexperienced hands)

I continued to use this light, in the house, in the garden and in any way possible (this is to "not to wear out" my Zebralight)
This light has never failed, its only flaw is a single and unique small flash 2 seconds after starting to the Firefly level 2

Satisfied with this Wizard "basic version" I bought the same light with the USB magnet tailcap and I was very happy, it has always been with me for about 2 years - it has been used and abused without any problem, used a lot at the turbo level during the daily walks, it has also fallen many times on earth but is still fully functional.
Only the paint is a little worn at the rubber support (I use an old Armytek rubber support)
It has often been used in the rain and washed frequently even under the tap.

As a Headlamp enthusiast, I find its perfect beam for use in the forest, I've never had a tint lottery (good selection from the Dutch seller ?) 
The interface is good and it's easy to use.

Overall I bought approximately 6 Wizard "basic" (XP-L) and approximately 7 Elf C2 (all headlamp with warm tint) - some I have kept for me as a backup, others I bought on behalf of friends, others I gave her as a gift.

One of them (Wizard model) was donated to a girl who travels the world and she took it with him to Macchu Picchu, then to Tibet, without any problem.
Another (ELf C2) is used by a volunteer firefighter, when it is not used in service is used by his children, no one has yet broken his light.

I prefer the XP-L Wizard, it is much more powerful than the Elf C2, the Elf C2 also has a lower button which can be more difficult to use with gloves.
The Elf has a handy illuminated button that marks the battery charge, it is comfortable for non-flashaolics people but for me it is not of great importance, I am glad that the Wizard does not have it.

However I am also happy with Elf C2 I paid them little (buy at the offer price) and use of couples on bicycle handlebars.

After making a good opinion I thought about buying the Wizard Pro version but before doing so I hesitated for a long time because I also read so many complaints (almost always concerning Pro versions) even the seller (years 2016/2017) has confirmed to me that many Pro version lights sold by him have come back for warranty replacement.
Then in 2018 I learned from him that the new Wizard Pro have become reliable and I decided to buy a Pro version (XHP 50) unfortunately, although it worked well and also had a nice tint I returned it after 24 hours. (I was disappointed with the performance, in my opinion it did not provide the declared power)

I do not know if with the Wizard "Basic version" I was just only lucky or if it is about the seller who tests the lights before shipping them but probably the Wizard Basic versions are very reliable (they are simple and what is not present can not be broken )
I was tempted to buy other Armytek models but I'm afraid buy a problematic light (especially with Pro versions)

Regarding Armytek customer service I can say that they are very friendly and have always responded quickly to requests for information.

However as a brand I still prefer again Zebralight, my most beautiful light is a old H600Fw MKII but it is kept as a relic 
I'd like to see a Zebralight with the Magnet USB charging
I hope all this is quite understandable, I wrote this using Google Translate.


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## wacbzz (Feb 24, 2019)

Despite all the things I’ve read in these pages and elsewhere about AT’s customer service, warranty fix requirements, and driver problems, I still wanted to purchase one of their warm tinted headlamps because, well, it’s obvious that they are the only headlamp manufacturer that truly means “warm” when they are talking about the LEDs they use. 

However, twice now, using the codes provided by them over in their sub-forum, I cannot seem to get a $42 AA headlamp shipped to me in the US for anything less than $30.

No thank you.


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