# E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple! Outdoor beam shots added



## foxtrot824 (Apr 23, 2010)

I have been a big fan of the E series bezel when it comes to size and shape for some time. It was not until recently that I took inspiration from Moddoo's triples for P series lights and found the 3 XP-G optics and PCB on LEDsupply that I put together the idea for an E-series triple.

This is still a work in progress and there are some tight tolerances to be machined. At this point a dremel tool might be as close to a lathe as this bezel is going to come. The LED board and optic measure 20mm in diameter and about 7.5mm in thickness. The reflector surface is just about that size so when boring time comes we'll see just how much meat is left to dissipate heat. 

The other issue that I will be running into will be the drivers and wiring of the LEDs. I plan to run this set up on a single cell setup. The LEDs unfortunately come wired is series and not parallel meaning I'll have to do some creative wiring on the tiny PCB. The stock output at the emitters at 350mA is 417 lumens or about 367 after optic loss. The driver will be a buck/boost driver with a 1A drive current. This means each diode will see about 333mA instead of the stock 350mA. After optic losses and loss from lower drive current I still expect the out the front lumens to be over 300. For a pocket light with multiple optic choices that not too shabby 

***Update***
The driver had been updated to a 3 mode Shining Beam driver providing 1.4A on high or 466mA on high to each die.

I will post updates and beam shots as I make progress on this project.

The red aluminum disk seen in the pictures comes from the shoppe and will house the driver.





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## Justin Case (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Why are you planning to use a boost-buck, and which one? With three XP-Gs in series, you are looking at a total Vf of at least 9V. How are you going to get more than 9V in a 1-cell or 2-cell E-series light to require a buck driver? I suppose that there are some folks with that 3-cell UBH host. But I wager not many.

FYI, 1A drive current to 3 XP-Gs in series will deliver 1A to each LED, not 333mA.

A GD1000 won't work since it can't deliver the output voltage that you need.

A Blue Shark could do it, but it is 19.1mm diam. Eyeballing your red anodized disk, it looks too small to hold a 19mm driver.

With my old-style E2e head with pocket clip attached to the bezel, it doesn't look like it has 20mm of space available. When I measure the inside of the head, the thread-to-thread distance looks to be about 19.5mm.

It looks like there is more than 20mm available when you look at the bezel from the top (window end). But you'd have to punch out the fixed Lexan window in the old-style SF E bezel and then figure out how to install a new window. Fortunately you can remove the bezel ring and window for the current style anti-roll bezel. So your mod might fit only for those E-series owners with the current anti-roll bezels.

If you can find a good 17mm boost driver, you could be in business.


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## Raoul_Duke (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

You could maybee use a 3 cell Vital gear FB3 body if you dont want to rewire the led's, they are a good host, and I think I saw a little while back they will be for sale again soon in CPFMP. Best to grab one while you can.

I like the look of this mod!!!!


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## foxtrot824 (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

I realized that I forgot to make it clear (original post edited) that I was going to rewire the PCB in *parallel *to keep the Vf around 3 volts and to divide the current 3 ways. The reason I chose the buck/boost driver was so that it could run off primaries and RCR123s.


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## Justin Case (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

This seems to be an interesting exercise, but not very practical. What is the advantage of underdriving three XP-Gs in parallel at only 333mA, vs driving one XP-G at 1A, that outweighs the extra cost and complexity of this mod?

Have you seen this XP-G drop-in for the E-series incan?


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## gswitter (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*



Justin Case said:


> This seems to be an interesting exercise...


:thumbsup:



> ...but not very practical. What is the advantage of underdriving three XP-Gs in parallel at only 333mA, vs driving one XP-G at 1A, that outweighs the extra cost and complexity of this mod?


:thumbsdow

It's kind of like when someone questions "Why climb that mountain?" _Because it's there, man!!!_

Go for it! We need to see more mods based on those triple XP-G PCBs and optics.

When I initially saw this I was going to suggest using a Shark and leaving the LEDs in series, but it sounds like you're set on a driver. A CR123A under load is technically below the recommended Vin of the Shark, but I believe ARC mania uses the Shark for his Ostar builds (SF-V, KL4 mods, etc.) and those will still put out light with just a pair of AA's. So, even if not quite recommended, the Shark may be a possibility for a build like this.

Anyway,


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## Justin Case (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Here's the deal. If you go through all the trouble of building something like this, at least deliver more performance than a simpler, cheaper solution. Otherwise, it is just a dexterity exercise. That's the point. 

To use your analogy, if you are going to climb a mountain, then make it a good one.


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## Dioni (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

It seems will be interesting!


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## gswitter (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

But there's value in this dexterity exercise. Regardless if there's a driver available for this build that justifies the cost of two additional emitters, no one's tried to physically fit this combo in an E-series incan bezel yet (or posted about it anyway). At least the OP or the next guy that wants to try it will know if the combo will fit when a better driver is available or a primary cell is no longer a requirement.


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## VanIsleDSM (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Is the "E-Series" the 18mm reflector size?

If so I've already investigated a triple in that size host, and it's not possible without modifying the topic to the point that the light shaping area is cut away and output will be affected.

If it's not the 18mm size then disregard my post


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## foxtrot824 (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Folks: I think this is being read into too deeply. I was just shooting to make an interesting mod. There is nothing terribly advantageous or cost effective to going my route, I just wanted to go for some thing new. If I had a driver that fit in the space I currently have to work with that would provide more than 333mA to the LEDs I would gladly use that. I am a big fan of over driving LEDs but in this case I didn't have a driver to do that. 

I should be able to get the head "bored" to accept the PCB by this weekend and get a work in progress going.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Why not just DD it if you are doing 3P?

Use 1 IMR 123, you'll get 1.5A to each XPG.


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## Justin Case (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*



gswitter said:


> But there's value in this dexterity exercise. Regardless if there's a driver available for this build that justifies the cost of two additional emitters, no one's tried to physically fit this combo in an E-series incan bezel yet (or posted about it anyway). At least the OP or the next guy that wants to try it will know if the combo will fit when a better driver is available or a primary cell is no longer a requirement.





foxtrot824 said:


> Folks: I think this is being read into too deeply. I was just shooting to make an interesting mod. There is nothing terribly advantageous or cost effective to going my route, I just wanted to go for some thing new. If I had a driver that fit in the space I currently have to work with that would provide more than 333mA to the LEDs I would gladly use that. I am a big fan of over driving LEDs but in this case I didn't have a driver to do that.



Foxtrot, since you never identified the driver you are using or the driver diam that you are looking for, it's hard to provide advice on suitable drivers.

Nevertheless, both of you are wrong in terms of available drivers with higher drive current than 1A. You can get a 14mm GD1500 and run the three parallel XP-Gs at 500mA drive current each. Same with a 14mm SOB1500 if you are willing to run the triple with 2xLi-ion.

If that red anodized piece is a Shoppe heat sink/can, I would think that it would accept a 14mm Shoppe driver.


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## foxtrot824 (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

I only posted this to inspire other members as I take inspiration from the vast talent that is found on the CPF. I am not looking for any driver or wiring suggestions, I just wanted to post something new and inspiring. Which it's looking like it is because there are many different opinions on how to execute this idea.


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## gswitter (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*



Justin Case said:


> Nevertheless, both of you are wrong...




I'm looking forward to updates, foxtrot824, and I'm curious to see how this turns out.


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## Justin Case (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*



foxtrot824 said:


> I realized that I forgot to make it clear (original post edited) that I was going to rewire the PCB in *parallel *to keep the Vf around 3 volts and to divide the current 3 ways. The reason I chose the buck/boost driver was so that it could run off primaries and RCR123s.



I suppose since you already have the triple serial XP-G board, you want to try to use that. But Cutter has triple XP-Gs on a 20mm MCPCB that are independently connected, so it is easy to hook up the LEDs in parallel.


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## VanIsleDSM (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*



Justin Case said:


> ...But Cutter has triple XP-Gs on a 20mm MCPCB that are independently connected, so it is easy to hook up the LEDs in parallel.



They have them listed for XPGs, though I have no idea how you'd connect one. They're made for rebel LEDs. I know cutter markets the rebel optics and such for the XPGs, that's cool, they work, the solder pad however, is quite a bit different, cutter.


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## DaFABRICATA (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

This will be pretty cool if you can get it all to fit in that tiny head!...keep working at it!


I built a KL4 using the triple XP-G board and optics several months ago.
The head was bored out and a thick heatsink was made to mount the triple board to. A blue shark was used to run the emitters. Its really bright for its size and gets pretty hot if left on for more than a minute or two.
I sold it to a friend. I'll try to remember to take a pic next time I see him.

Good luck! Hope you get it to work!:twothumbs


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## Justin Case (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*



VanIsleDSM said:


> They have them listed for XPGs, though I have no idea how you'd connect one. They're made for rebel LEDs. I know cutter markets the rebel optics and such for the XPGs, that's cool, they work, the solder pad however, is quite a bit different, cutter.



What are you talking about? Cutter sells the exact same Carclo optics that LED Supply does for the triple XP-G. It's actually originally designed for the XP-E.

The triple XP-G 20mm MCPCB that is connected independently is made for the Rebel? What are you talking about here? The XP-Gs are already mounted on the MCPCB. The Rebel's solder pad pattern is irrelevant.

Go here, scroll down until you get to the XP-G LEDs, and select an XPGMR8IAD for your MCPCB choice.

You can see a photo of the individually addressable triple XP-G here. You'd connect it like any multiple LED setup that you want to wire in parallel.


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## VanIsleDSM (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

That carclo optic was originally designed for the rebel, as you can clearly see in the 3D rendering in the link you posted.

The parallel board was also initially designed for the rebel, I have been using many of them in RGB wall washers that I have been making for years, along with the carclo optics, long before the XPE existed. I see how it's possible now to finagle some XPE/XPGs on there by soldering the thermal pad together with one of the electrical connections, and it almost does look like the manufacturer of the board knew of the emerging XPE package, because it does seem to look as though it was designed to fit rebels and XPE packages.. I just never saw how you would do it as I didn't envision soldering the thermal pad to an electrical contact, but I suppose it's neutral so it doesn't matter.. I've just only ever mounted rebels on them.


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## Mettee (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Hey Foxtrot,

Please move forward with this build, It is really cool and I think you are on track even though the situation with the star is not perfect. I think that trying to make it work shows great skill that most here wish they had. I am eager to see it shine  

drew


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## bigchelis (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

If you can make it happen it would be really cool fun factor. Just to say you did.

Oh, and make at least a couple more for those of us who lack the expertise


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## foxtrot824 (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Some updates-
This was all done on an 1/8" cutter by hand using a dremel tool. Next time I'll send it some where to be machined. I'll also put in some thermal compound before sealing the light up.


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## Mettee (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

HA! that kicks ***. Good work man. Looks mean...


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## sawlight (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

I want to see this thing working! Keep up the good work!


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## McGizmo (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Multiple optics and high power LED's in an E head! Cool! The technology certainly has come a long way!! :thumbsup:


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## lightknot (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

In reference to Post #3 in this thread, Vital Gear bodies (and adapters)will be available in the CPF marketplace, Dealers Corner, in May 2010. The Vital Gear FB1, FB2, and FB3 are E-series bodies. The Vital Gear E2C adapter will be available as well.lovecpf


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## foxtrot824 (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Finally done! I finished securing the driver in the head and got it assembled. The E1b body will be the EDC host for this set up along with an McTC tail cap.
More beam shots to come when it's not raining out. The floody spot on the left is the triple and the one on the right is a Quark 123 R2.


My suggestions to anyone who is inspired to do this, do this on a lathe. I spent hours making a mess with a dremel tool. A higher current driver would result in some better output as well.


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## Dioni (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Wow.. a nice big flood beam!


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## SuperTrouper (Apr 27, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Nice job! Looks like a very usable beam profile.


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## foxtrot824 (Apr 27, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*

Outdoor beam shot time! After traveling over a 1000 miles I've found a suitable outdoor place to illuminate.

The beam shots are a little overexposed but come pretty close to an accurate representation of the awesomeness that is the triple.

From top to bottom, control shot, a 2D stock LED mag, an Ebay XR-E "240 lumen" drop in a G2 and lastly the XP-G triple running of a mostly charger IMR.


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## Dioni (Apr 27, 2010)

Holy goodness!


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## Black Rose (Apr 27, 2010)

:thumbsup:

Those XP-Gs do put out a lot of light for such a tiny package.


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## elumen8 (Apr 28, 2010)

This rocks and rocks some more. Glad to see it finished and fired up.

JB


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## foxtrot824 (Apr 28, 2010)

Thanks for all the support. I think I'm going to shoot for an XP-E version that driven at a higher current some time in the near future. I'll be sure to keep every one posted.


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## Kestrel (Apr 28, 2010)

Really neat. Thanks for the beamshots.


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## lightknot (Apr 28, 2010)

Nice, clear, beamshots. They really illustrate the difference. Great build.


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## foxtrot824 (Aug 15, 2010)

It only took 4 months but I have an XP-E R3 build in the making!


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## foxtrot824 (Aug 24, 2010)

*Re: E-series incandescent bezel host for XP-G triple!*



SuperTrouper said:


> Nice job! Looks like a very usable beam profile.



Thanks SuperTrouper, I have also upgraded the driver to a 3 mode so I have a useful low setting that doesn't blind me.


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