# Multi-Mode Incan Lights?



## Olumin (Dec 2, 2020)

Were (or are) there any dual- or multi-mode incandescent flashlights being sold? Most Incans are a single mode, on/off type of deal, but I’m curious whether or not any multi-mode lights were being made. I would be strongly interested in such a light of it were to exist. I’m talking about Incan only here, so stuff like the A2 doesn’t count, as the "low mode" utilizes LED emitters. Im sure someone nowadays can make a custom one, but I would like to know if any were ever produced in series. Whether the light uses one or multiple bulbs doesn’t matter here. 

Im sure many of you are a lot more knowledgeable about this than I am and can help me out. Thanks in advance.


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## Daniel_sk (Dec 2, 2020)

I am not an expert on incans, but I think the problems is that bulbs are designed for specific voltage and output. Under-driving a bulb below spec will produce a beam which will have a very warm color and inefficient output/power ratio. Unless you are talking about multi-mode incans that have for example 2 different bulbs. Surefire 10X Dominator was a rechargeable flashlight with two different bulbs, one produced 60 lumens for 3 hours and the other one 500 lumens for 20 minutes.


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## yellow (Dec 2, 2020)

And Surefire 9N


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## archimedes (Dec 2, 2020)

There have been a variety of "PWM" switches available at times, for the function you describe.

Generally, their switching rate was rather slow (relatively speaking) since the filament takes significantly more time to heat and cool than does (say) an LED emitter to cycle on / off.

Of course, there also were (and are) flashlight hosts than can "change output" simply by swapping out different batteries and lamps, but I doubt that is what you meant.


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## sgt253 (Dec 2, 2020)

I have not come across a light that was mass produced as you describe. Doesn't mean that they didn't/don't exist, I just don't know of them. Don Keller produced a light for Snap On that was a prototype for a multi level light. I believe Bykfixer here on CPF has one. There have been tail switches that have controlled the brightness of the incandescent lamp on certain makes/models. I have one for an old Streamlight Sl-20 and Sl-35 incandescent. It dims the light and also flashes the light via pulse width modulation via the tailcap. I believe there has been a third party switch to fit the Surefire E series lights, I don't recall its name. I believe there was one by G&P (G&P AI) that was pretty so so and fit the Surefire 6P series. I hope this helps.


(Archimedes beat me to the punch as i was typing. Says something about my typing...lol)


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## archimedes (Dec 2, 2020)

Reference links ...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...an-Driver-Switch-For-SF-P-C-M-series-Tail-Cap

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...-mode-tailcap-for-SF-6P-G2-C2-E1-E2-group-buy

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...6-(programmable-hotwire-driver-for-the-SF-M6)

The last of the above has internal switches to adjust the regulated voltage output. Of course, it is generally then necessary to swap lamps also.


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## Olumin (Dec 2, 2020)

Daniel_sk said:


> I am not an expert on incans, but I think the problems is that bulbs are designed for specific voltage and output. Under-driving a bulb below spec will produce a beam which will have a very warm color and inefficient output/power ratio. Unless you are talking about multi-mode incans that have for example 2 different bulbs. Surefire 10X Dominator was a rechargeable flashlight with two different bulbs, one produced 60 lumens for 3 hours and the other one 500 lumens for 20 minutes.



Yea, thats what I feared. It should be doable by simply using 2 separate bulbs, as you mentioned. Does anyone know of any other Dual-bulb lights?


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## Olumin (Dec 2, 2020)

yellow said:


> And Surefire 9N



Now this is pretty much exactly what I was looking for! There appears to be the 9N as you mentioned, as well as the 9AN commander. What is the difference between these two? Can the rechargeable battery packs be replaced somehow?


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## bykfixer (Dec 3, 2020)

That's what was so cool about the SureFire A2. Legit high and low output. That and a regulated incandecent high output. 

Like others said, some lights used pwm and dimmer switches or a side by side bulb setup to achieve two outputs way back when SureFire founder Dr John Matthews was being invented. The ones that used dimmers were disappointing in that the light was that of a bulb fired by nearly dead batteries so its orange glow was less than ideal. 
Some say reducing incoming voltage to the bulb murdered the bulb lifespan due to lack of gas burn off rate, which in itself aided in preserving the life of the filament by somehow causing burned tungstun to reattach itself back to the filament when properly fired (or something along those lines).


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## ma tumba (Dec 3, 2020)

I would say that the natural drop of cct goes very nicely with the drop of output. Actually I miss this feature in LED lights very much


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## fivemega (Dec 3, 2020)

*Streamlight also had a variable brightness tail cap for full size flashlights.

Surefire 10X had dual bulb system.

Light Saver mentioned above was 3 level aftermarket tail cap for $urefire E series.*


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## Katherine Alicia (Dec 3, 2020)

I`v never seen a comercial one, but they`re quite easy to make, I built one a while back just for the fun of it and it does work, though it`s only got High, Low and Strobe, but being an E10 MES socket I can try all sorts of different bulbs and LED drop-ins as well. it takes 2x `C` cells, though it now takes a 21700 as well.

it`s really easy to do, so if you want me to post the details I`d be happy to


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## GaGa-Sama (Dec 3, 2020)

Some cars use dual filament bulbs for high and low beam in the same bulb. I wonder if there is one small enough to be shoehorned into a large thrower host? Just a thought.


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## Olumin (Dec 3, 2020)

Thanks to all of you. Many of you recommend an after-marked solution in form of specialized tailcaps/switches, but I was hoping for more of an off-the-shelf solution. After reading some of your replies here I honestly don’t think that a single-bulb multi mode setup is ideal, do to either bad tint or shortened lifespan of the filament. A dual bulb setup would be preferable, I think. 

Yellow mentioned the 9N/9AN, which seems interesting. There might be one available, however the battery is stated as being defect. Is it possible to replace it, or substitute it for more conventional CR123s or Li-ions?


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## Kestrel (Dec 3, 2020)

If I ever wanted a dual-mode incan, it would have been the SureFire M6 using an MN15 lamp assembly for 'Low' and one of the mega-draw bulbs for high.
That model had a relatively easy adaption for rechargeable LiIons as well.

Edit: Or a three-cell Surefire body w/ P90 vs P91's - and perhaps even using an R30 w/ 2xAA for a 'low'.


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## bykfixer (Dec 4, 2020)

I forgot about the Pelican Big D that had a high bulb and a low bulb. That was the light folks got bulbs for Roar of the Pelican builds.


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## Kestrel (Dec 4, 2020)

Oh my goodness yes; those two wonderful bulbs did more for the incan subforum than anything else, IMO.


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## ma tumba (Dec 4, 2020)

I wonder if an A2 ring (stock or modded) could use incand bulbs instead of the LEDs? Why not, as there is no regulation


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## 325addict (Dec 6, 2020)

I think this is possible when using 6V of 7.2V T1 3/4 bulbs with wire ends to directly replace the LEDs. The only thing you have to do extra is bypassing those resistors.


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## ma tumba (Dec 6, 2020)

325addict said:


> I think this is possible when using 6V of 7.2V T1 3/4 bulbs with wire ends to directly replace the LEDs. The only thing you have to do extra is bypassing those resistors.



Found this: Barthelme Micro Bulb T1 3/4 6.3V 1.26W 906320

Should be ~30lm per bulb or ~90lm per ring. Always wanted a bright flood option in an A2!

I have at least 3 stock rings collecting dust, will need to sacrifice one of them for the test.

Actually, a single 30lm bulb is also interesting option for an asymmetric low walking light beam


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## dennck (Dec 7, 2020)

The Maglite Magcharger back from 2012 year model was a mass produced, widely available multi-mode incad. This new version runs on the improved Ni-MH rechargeable stick and has an electronic switch which operates the halogen lamp in Full Power, Power Save, Strobe, SOS or momentary.


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## bykfixer (Dec 8, 2020)

I had never wanted an incan MagCharger before reading that post. 

Yikes! I want one now.


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## yellow (Dec 10, 2020)

As You asked:
9N is the original model,
9AN its successor

"B90" battery stick is easy to build, or go with Streamlight Stinger battery stick 
(there should be some threads to be found convering themes like Streamlight Stinger battery for 9N, as well as B90 battery selfbuilt ones. At least I myself posted some concerning the building, pictures included)

high/low power of a bulb: makes no good results.
there is an output it is supposed to work with. Any reduction leads to extreme low output (if even more than a glow), nowhere to be useful. More power to the bulb: 

therefore double bulbs builds were the way to go.


at the end - and to make me friends in here, in that sub-forum again ... 
I can only give You something to think of:
I never liked the 10X, way too bulky. The 8X had only that one level. So double ouput and the size factor brought me to using the 9N for years.
BUT
that immediately changed when the white led became "as good" as lights in that output class (lets name it normal to medium powered flashlights).
the point was: my 1st mod to an 6P --> 18650 powered and an _XR-E_!!! as led - the 9N was screwed.
Way smaller, same "feeling" with the high beam, multilevel (which works perfectly focused with the reflector)
((remember: the "low" bulb of the 9N has the same power than the typical maglight bulb. But it is nothing better than any mule to navigate around, or write reports, inspect something near, ...)

.. the 18650 form factor has me catched from that time.
And the XR-E is also quite a way form todays Diodes.
(therefore You will also find some posts from me, when someone asked for modding 8X or 9N to li-Ion, and/or led ... Sure, possible, with medium to much effort, but what for: for bringing along air inside a bigger light than "needed")


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## broadgage (Dec 17, 2020)

I have several double bulb flashlights, though these are rather large and might more properly be called handlamps rather than flashlights.
Made by a UK company called "Cluelight"
Bright light is a 6 volt 18 watt or 36 watt vehicle headlight bulb.
Dim is a 6 volt 3 watt or 5 watt bulb. Power is from a 6 volt sealed lead acid battery.
Also a larger model that uses;
12 volt bipin 50 watt halogen A1-220 Lamp and a 12 volt 6 watt halogen. Power from a 12 volt sealed lead acid battery. Run time about 90 minutes on high and about 24 hours on low.

I also have a vintage handlamp that uses a 6 volt twin filament bulb with a 3 watt filament and an 18 watt filament, uses a 6 cell nicad battery (the bulbs are called 6 volt by convention but are actually designed for about 7 volts) The bulbs are cheap and durable and should stand 8.4 volts from a 7 cell battery.

And somewhere I have an early wind up flashlight that uses a twin filament bulb with high and low filaments.


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## broadgage (Feb 4, 2021)

GaGa-Sama said:


> Some cars use dual filament bulbs for high and low beam in the same bulb. I wonder if there is one small enough to be shoehorned into a large thrower host? Just a thought.



Unlikely to work very well.
"dipped beam" on a car headlight tends to be of a similar wattage, or only slightly less, than main beam. The dipped beam is angled slightly downwards and towards the kerb, so as to reduce glare to oncoming drivers. (historical note, some early cars used a single filament bulb, with dipping of the headlights achieved by physicaly tilting the reflector)

Another option is a twin filament bulb intended for combined stop/tail lights on vehicles. These have two filaments of very different wattages. Often 5 watt for the tail light and 21 watts for the brake light.
These bulbs are cheap and long lasting but not very efficient. They need significant over-driving to give a good light. A bit bulky and power hungry for a conventional flashlight, but a possibility for a large handlamp. 12 or 13 nicad cells needed for 14.4 or 15.6 volts.
I have an old one as described above.


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## broadgage (May 28, 2021)

For reasons already given, any modern type of twin filament headlight bulb wont be very suitable.

However decades ago, there existed twin filament headlight bulbs with two filaments of very different wattages, the low wattage one being a front marker light. No longer manufactured AFAIK but N.O.S. examples sometimes turn up.

This sort of thinghttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363393745806?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144


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## snakebite (May 29, 2021)

from the 40's?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/General-...ENT-Miniature-Automotive-Light-Bulb/154034354


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## broadgage (May 30, 2021)

snakebite said:


> from the 40's?
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/General-...ENT-Miniature-Automotive-Light-Bulb/154034354



Those bulbs had two similar filaments, not for a choice of light output but so as to have a spare filament available when the first one failed. Similar twin filament bulbs existed for miners lamps.


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## Kirk (May 30, 2021)

Eveready made a 2-D cell Masterlite Spot-Flood from 1953-1957 using that 2-filament PR14 flange-base bulb shown in the above post. As you can see, the glass globe of the bulb looks like any other PR lamp but the base has 2 contacts instead of just one. The flashlight's slide switch has the On-Off switching part overlayed on another moveable slider. It's the slider that chooses the "flood" filament or the "spot" filament--the bulb does not physically move in the reflector. I have 2 of them and I guess for 1953 it was OK brightness-wise, and the spot/flood feature was unique, but nowadays it's pretty dim. You can find the light on ebay fairly regularly, but they almost always have a regular PR bulb in them. 
Kirk


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## snakebite (May 31, 2021)

a friend got one and i happened to have a few boxes of NOS pr14.
i set him up with aa-d holders to run nimh in it.
a big advancement when it came out but didnt catch on.
it gets smoked by a 5mm coin cell light today.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 5, 2021)

Then there were the programmable packages that Jimmy and (forget) other great modder put out. Have a dozen or more left


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## mrsteel (Jun 27, 2021)

The Wicked lasers flashtorch has 3 modes.


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## Juggernaut (Jun 29, 2021)

Big Beam powerhouse 1766 lights have two filaments in the same bulb, and a switch with 3 positions. A low and high. The low is around 5-6 watts (140 lumens or so) and the high was over 11 watts at 350 lumens or so had great 63,000 lux on high. 
The big beam 1000 had a single reflector twin bulb low and high (and you could put in your own bulbs mine had a 35 watt high 3 watt LED low. (but you could use low watt Incans as well)


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## Olumin (Jul 15, 2021)

So I finally got a Surefire 9N for a good price. No functioning B90 battery with it of cause so Im gonna use 3 Sub-C NiMHs 3500mAh cells to run it. I wonder if the original charger for the B90 can be used to charge a 3xSub-C NiMH battery stick? If that works I might just solder them together permanently and put schrink warp around them. If not, I will charge them separately.


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## vicv (Jul 15, 2021)

Did it originally have a 3 cell nickel batter in it? Nimh and nicd don't have a very different charging algorithm. I don't know the specs on this light but usually these old lights had trickle chargers that basically were left in the charger until they were needed and charged up very low currents. If that's the case your new pack should charge just fine


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## Olumin (Jul 15, 2021)

Yes, the original B90 is 3x Sub-C Ni-Ca cells. I dont know yet which exact model of charger comes with my light, but this is a label of one of the charges for the B90 and judging by the info, I would say it charges like you described. So no problem then?


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## hsa (Jul 15, 2021)

My 9N had a silver ring below the head and charged the battery in the light like a Mag charger so I guess there were different models. Mine was a slow charger though, something like 11 hours. What a great light though, it was amazing in the '90s'.


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## vicv (Jul 15, 2021)

Yeah it doesn't show any specs on the charger. But as long as they're both nickel-based batteries and the voltage is the same it'll be fine. The old streamlight stingers all had an niCad batteries. The new ones have NIMH batteries. But the new lights are still compatible with the old chargers and vice versa. They say that right on the website in the product description. I know it's not sure fire but a charger is a charger. I lost the charger cradle for my stinger. And I just remove the battery and charge it with a 3S NIMH battery charger. It works great


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## fivemega (Jul 15, 2021)

*Charger says:


4- Battery will auto charge for two hours and then switch standby charge.


It could be timered for two hours charge but what if battery was 50%, 70%, or 95% depleted? Will it continue charging for two hours? This may not (seriously) harm NiCad battery but it will shorten NiMH batteries life.
By the way, there is a big difference when you fully recharge the battery for two hours (fast) or 14~16 hours (slow) charge for Stinger. And again, I need to mention that overcharging a NiMH battery at higher rate (2 hours) will seriously harm it.
All I can suggest is to stop charging when you know battery is full and don't forget (SubC) NiCad is 1800mAh while NiMH is 3500mAh. So NiMH needs twice charging time.*




vicv said:


> I lost the charger cradle for my Stinger.


*These days, Stinger charger is very low cost and comes in "slow" and "fast" charging rate at your choice.*


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## Olumin (Jul 16, 2021)

After some further searching the exact model of charger appears to be a Model C14. There is a listing selling this exact charger on ebay.de, and it appears to be the same one included with my particular 9N. Here are the pictures:
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/VEYAAOSwsldguRL8/s-l1600.jpg
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nukAAOSw0vtguRLy/s-l1600.jpg

Im doubt this helps, there is no further info on this charger anywhere I can find.


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## vicv (Jul 16, 2021)

I agree a fast charge can damage a nimh battery if it's just timed. I assumed he would only charge when battery was low.

As for a stinger charger, I have looked into it and I will suffer the Canada tax. It makes it prohibively expensive. I bought a 3s charging board on ebay for $2. I soldered a USB cable onto it for power and a couple magnets on the charging leads. They stick right to the lights pins and charge it well


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## Olumin (Jul 17, 2021)

I got the 9N today and it appears to work just fine with the NiMHs. I only wonder: since the output is selected by rotating the head of the light, what do the 3 markings on the rear end of the body indicate (2x sun symbols, one brighter than the other, and one lightning bolt)? They line up with an engraved dot on the tailcap. No matter how far I screw the tailcap down, the momentary switch functions just the same and the output obviously doesn’t change. When rotating past the lightning/electricity symbol the light does not lock out either. I have no manual for this light. Any idea?


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## hsa (Jul 17, 2021)

I think the lightning bolt was where you positioned the cap for battery charging "in light" or cradle charging, but I'm not sure. I may have a manual around here, I'll check.


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## hsa (Jul 17, 2021)

Ok, I found the manual. Line up the sun on the body with the dot on the tail cap for momentary, line up the lightning bolt on the body with the dot for cradle charging. This is a 9N 500 series, it says.


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## vicv (Jul 17, 2021)

I'm kinda jealous. That's a really cool light


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## Olumin (Jul 17, 2021)

hsa said:


> Ok, I found the manual. Line up the sun on the body with the dot on the tail cap for momentary, line up the lightning bolt on the body with the dot for cradle charging. This is a 9N 500 series, it says.



Thanks. Mine’s a 330, or that’s what it says on the box. The Lightning for cradle charging makes sense, but why are there two sun symbols? Does the 500 only have one? On mine, one of them is hollow, the other is filled. This would indicate two different brightness levels to me, but it doesn’t make a difference when lined up with one or the other. Changing the brightness with head rotation works just fine as it should.

EDIT: Oh wait, I get it. Hollow sun is momentary, filled is constant on. I was confused because it switches to constant ON only a little past the the second sun symbol. Im dense.


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## hsa (Jul 17, 2021)

The manual only talks about the one sun symbol and I don't have the light anymore, gave it to my stepson, the cop. Seems like I remember there being two sun symbols on an old 3p but I'm not sure about that one either.


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## Olumin (Jul 18, 2021)

By the way; the charger was actually a c300, which is what I kinda expected at first, but since I couldn’t find any pictures online of one, I couldn’t confirm. It’s a slow charger that charges over 12 hours. I have decided to keep charging the cells separately anyway. The cells I bought had a cardboard warping that can easily be taken off. They are flat top, so in order to make contact I had to remove the wrapping anyway. When I first tested the light, I actually put a rolled-up piece of baking paper into the battery tube to prevent a short circuit. Now I just use a piece of shrink wrap cut to length and let the batteries slide inside. May not be elegant but it works very well. 

I think its certainly a better solution then trying to adapt 18650s or 21700s to work in the thing with adapters. Better runtime too. I also cant imagine the brief voltage spike of 4,2V to be good for the bulbs in the long term.


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## vicv (Jul 18, 2021)

The nihm could give a 4.5v spike. Probably not a bad idea to charge separately though. I imagine if it had a charging cradle these things were kind of meant to be fully charged at all time ready to go at a moment's notice. I don't imagine that you're using it in such a "tactical" way. And if the cells are low self discharge that also gets rid of the need for it to always be on the charger


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## alpg88 (Jul 18, 2021)

iAW soft start hotwire switch for Maglite. has 3 modes, PWM


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