# E2L AA Outdoorsman w/ MN01 E1e head



## chillinn (Dec 26, 2016)

A while ago, some of you talked about this in another thread...

Anyone doing this or using something similar (such as with a TadCustoms bipin e-socket) to get Surefire incan with AA?

I'm considering it, if I can find an E2L AA, and if I can afford it. McGizmo makes one, and CPF member balrog once also had a 2xAA E-compatible body available, Malkov of course also, heard about Vital Gear FB3-HA body but can't find one... honestly, I don't see many options for E-2xAA tubes. Please post if you know of any.


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## scout24 (Dec 27, 2016)

If I recall, Valiant Concepts made a 2xAA E-threaded body with no switch- twisty only.


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## bykfixer (Dec 27, 2016)

VitalGear stuff is long gone. 

Fourleafflashlights still had an adapter at one point but I may have bought the last one.


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## AndyF (Dec 27, 2016)

Sparks Illumination has the Universal Battery Holder (UBH).


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## ampdude (Dec 28, 2016)

AndyF said:


> Sparks Illumination has the Universal Battery Holder (UBH).



I have every type of 2AA body mentioned in this thread. The Balrogs are really nice, but good luck finding that or a UBH kit or body of any kind. The Vital Gear FB3-HA is probably the most attainable option in the aftermarket side of things, but since they were made to fit protected 17500's, you might need to find a plastic sleeve adapter (I don't know if anyone makes one anymore) to prevent battery rattle and help keep a tight connection. I never felt that body worked very well with 2 x AA and it was just kind of a marketing thing. That body was really made to shine, with P17500's, even three CR123A's are a little loose in there for my taste, but they work fine. You might be able to just make a paper sleeve or something. I don't really like flammable things inside my flashlights though.


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## AndyF (Dec 28, 2016)

I purchased my UBH without any problems.


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## ampdude (Dec 28, 2016)

AndyF said:


> I purchased my UBH without any problems.



Recently? Maybe things have been cleaned up, I don't know what's going on around here lately.


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## labrat (Jan 12, 2017)

AndyF said:


> Sparks Illumination has the Universal Battery Holder (UBH).




What is " Sparks Illumination " ?
Google does not come up with anything, is this just an old Internet shop not in existence anymore?


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## AndyF (Jan 12, 2017)

labrat said:


> What is " Sparks Illumination " ?
> Google does not come up with anything, is this just an old Internet shop not in existence anymore?



Try "Spark Illuminations UBH" in your Google search.


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## chillinn (Jan 12, 2017)

Or save your google fu *and just click here, instead.*


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## chillinn (Jan 18, 2017)

ampdude said:


> I have every type of 2AA body mentioned in this thread.



This made me laugh hard when you first posted, and I can't explain why. But after using a bored E2E and Tad Customs E-socket for a about a week, and being very impressed with the runtime, I do have a question for you. Ignoring that a 2xAA setup is inherently safer, which in your experience gives better runtime of useful brightness, 2000mAh of 2xAA or 2000mAh of 18650? How about 3000mAh 18650? (I hope I'm not asking, "which is faster, a motorcycle going 80mph, or a station wagon going 80mph?")


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## vicv (Jan 18, 2017)

Well 2xaa and 1x like ion would be running a different bulb so they're not comparable. And of course a 3000mah cell would give longer runtimes than a 2000 mah cell with the same bulb


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## chillinn (Jan 18, 2017)

vicv said:


> Well 2xaa and 1x like ion would be running a different bulb so they're not comparable.



I should have eliminated that variable. We can underdrive a lamp optimized for 4.2V with 3V, as long as it gets hot enough, shouldn't hurt the lamp, just won't give us the full brightness of a lamp optimized for 3V. And you've revealed to me in my own reply, with similar capacities, the lower voltage setup should last longer, unless underdriven lamps are massively less efficient.



vicv said:


> And of course a 3000mah cell would give longer runtimes than a 2000 mah cell with the same bulb



I wasn't sure this would be the case due to my expectation of higher current in the lower cap Li-ion cell. I realize not all lower capacity Li-ion necessarily give higher amps than higher capacity Li-ion cells, but in my experience, the same brand cells seem to follow this generalization. I was anticipating another "it's just the opposite of what you'd expect" sort of situation, that maybe higher amp cells, even with more capacity, might be depleted faster than lower amp cells with less capacity. To exaggerate in simile, like a gallon milk jug will empty faster with a golf ball sized hole than a juice box with a pin hole. 

But I didn't mention amps, nor did I specify the same bulb for different voltages. I'm trying to compare these two set ups, 18650 vs 2xAA... but they can't be identical for comparison, so perhaps I should have asked, which is preferable, ignoring safety and tube size?


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## vicv (Jan 18, 2017)

A high drain cell will drive the bulb a bit more but not enough to distinguish capacity wise. We're talking maybe 100ma. I would always prefer 18650. But if you take safety and size of of the equation what else is there? The whole advantage of lithium chemistry cells is smaller size. If size isn't a consideration I'd run multiple d cell NIMH


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## chillinn (Jan 18, 2017)

vicv said:


> If size isn't a consideration I'd run multiple d cell NIMH



I have been speculating about using NiMH 1/2AAA cells in my Solitaire w/ MiniMag lamp, rather than 10440 LiMn, for safety, economy, and runtime. But using D-cells with E-series never occurred to me. You give me another idea. FiveMega has had E-series 2x18650 bodies available in the past, though currently I only see P-series long tubes for sale. I wonder what it would take to coax him to release a 2x34600 tube for E-series, because D-cells have supurb capacity and are shorter... or even a MagLite 2D to E-series adapter (silly as that sounds)?


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## vicv (Jan 18, 2017)

The head would be too small. It would look ridiculous!


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## chillinn (Jan 18, 2017)




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## ampdude (Jan 22, 2017)

chillinn said:


> This made me laugh hard when you first posted, and I can't explain why. But after using a bored E2E and Tad Customs E-socket for a about a week, and being very impressed with the runtime, I do have a question for you. Ignoring that a 2xAA setup is inherently safer, which in your experience gives better runtime of useful brightness, 2000mAh of 2xAA or 2000mAh of 18650? How about 3000mAh 18650? (I hope I'm not asking, "which is faster, a motorcycle going 80mph, or a station wagon going 80mph?")



I'm not sure what the question is because 2000mAh of 2xAA will only be around 2.4-3.4V depending on chemistry at nominal voltage of NIMH up to full charge of lithiums and NIZN's. While a 2000mAh 18650 assuming it's lithium ion will be 3.7V even at nominal voltage. A 3000mAh 18650 should also have 3.7V at nominal voltage assuming it's lithium ion. So the 3000mAh 18650 would have the most power of the three.


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## chillinn (Jan 23, 2017)

Thx, ampdude. It was a poorly constructed question, and each set up is very different and hard to compare, but thanks for explaining and trying.


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## ma tumba (Jan 23, 2017)

Chillnn, if all what you want is 15-20lm on 2xAA, you could use a mag mini AA which is 19lm light. Get the NiteIze clicky tail cap, put on some Phaseburn diffusing film on the lens and you are all set for $20


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## chillinn (Jan 23, 2017)

ma tumba said:


> Chillnn, if all what you want is 15-20lm on 2xAA, you could use a mag mini AA which is 19lm light. Get the NiteIze clicky tail cap, put on some Phaseburn diffusing film on the lens and you are all set for $20



Thanks for the suggestion, ma tumba. It is more than simply wanting low lumens, but also to be able to run incan the entire night. What is nicer about E series, among other things, is the lamp, which last much longer than the (on average) 4 hour AA Mini Mag lamps. Also, I think it is the reflector and lamp combination of E series that gives such a clean spill and tight hot spot. AA Mini Mags are an incredible value, and are excellent for task lighting, but I am seeking to create ambient space without having to go through 2 or 3 ~$1.50 lamps per evening.


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## ma tumba (Jan 23, 2017)

chillinn said:


> I am seeking to create ambient space without having to go through 2 or 3 ~$1.50 lamps per evening.


Actually, I've been using my minimag regularly since 1991 and have killed just two lamps since that time, both when I used 1.5V alkalines rather than 1.2V eneloops and both were the original (halogen ?) versions. Couple years ago I switched to xenon which is so much whiter and this bulb is still in there. Are you speaking from experience about the 4 hour life time?

And btw, what is life time of an mn01? Last time I saw it on ebay the price was $40


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## chillinn (Jan 23, 2017)

ma tumba said:


> Actually, I've been using my minimag regularly since 1991 and have killed just two lamps since that time, both when I used 1.5V alkalines rather than 1.2V eneloops and both were the original (halogen ?) versions. Couple years ago I switched to xenon which is so much whiter and this bulb is still in there. Are you speaking from experience about the 4 hour life time?
> 
> And btw, what is life time of an mn01? Last time I saw it on ebay the price was $40



Yes, from my experience, and the 4 hour life-time of Mag lamps is well-known as well. There is a best way to use them to extend their life, like never turn them on for just a few seconds, but always for at least a half a minute... but I'm not sure why that helps prevent them blowing. I have gotten as many as 8 hours out of a Mag lamp, as I do use Mag lamps, but just recently picked up a lot of Lamptronix lamps, which I posted about elsewhere in the incan forum. I got over 40 hours on one Lamptronix, but they do tend to get much dimmer over time as deposits build up on the inside of the lamp. I prefer the krypton mag lamps to the xenon, for the color temperature more than anything. Xenon tends to irritate my waking or tired eyes, but it's fine if it's in the middle of that somewhere. Last night when I got up, I was using my stock Solitaire with the xenon stock lamp, and found it very irritating. I also can't stand bluer xenon headlamps on other vehicles; I find them to be blinding and distracting. But I understand why others prefer xenon to krypton.

Lifetime of MN01 is measured in cell swaps, and I believe it is expected to get about 50 cell swaps (at over an hour per cell swap) between burnouts. Prices on eBay mean little; they're all over the place if you look at the history of the auctions. MN01 can still be found at some retailers for about $20, but I'm using a Tad Customs E-socket and the lamps Tad Customs sells. I don't think they are expected to be as durable as MN01, but I haven't burned one out yet.


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## scout24 (Jan 23, 2017)

Okay, this concept, the 2xAA MN-01 light, has been picking away at the back of my mind. Just sold my E2L AA, so out comes the 2xAA Valiant Concepts twisty body. I dug out a black E series incan head and an MN-01 bulb. I figured a runtime test was in order, so at 2:45 this afternoon it commenced, with my E1e as a baseline to compare. Both have fresh cells. The 2xAA is whiter, with either bulb. Pics and a runtime total to come!


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## chillinn (Jan 23, 2017)

What chem cells, scout24? Initial voltage? Thanks for doing this.



When you're ready to put your black E series incan head back where you dug it out from, first consider if you could ever part with it, and if you may have mercy on one, such as myself, that can't seem to... get a head.


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## scout24 (Jan 23, 2017)

A pair of 12/2016 Energizer alkalines. Starting voltage 3.21v, ended at an hour and 50 minutes almost without warning. Still decent color temp, but 2.18v combined two cell voltage after a minute's rest. Literally one minute of dimming...


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## chillinn (Jan 23, 2017)

scout24 said:


> A pair of 12/2016 Energizer alkalines. Starting voltage 3.21v, ended at an hour and 50 minutes almost without warning. Still decent color temp, but 2.18v combined two cell voltage after a minute's rest. Literally one minute of dimming...


 
That is nearly the best news I have heard all day. Outstanding performance.


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## scout24 (Jan 23, 2017)

I'd be curious how Eneloops would do, but I'm a bit short on AA 'Loops...


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## scout24 (Jan 23, 2017)

To clarify- 12/2026 Energizer alkalines. Brand new. My apologies! (Purchased in 12/2016.) And, it did get warm to the touch. More than I thought it would, I guess I've never run an MN-01 for more than 5 or 10 minutes at a clip before.


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## chillinn (Jan 23, 2017)

scout24 said:


> I guess I've never run an MN-01 for more than 5 or 10 minutes at a clip before.



You don't know what you're missing. It's even better in the dark.


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## scout24 (Jan 23, 2017)

Lol. I gravitated to the MN-02 in an E2e, there's six or seven running around here somewhere... Probably my favorite incan setup for primary cell pocket carry. And once 16650's came out, I stocked up on LF HO-E1R's. Haven't gone to Tad's yet, except for my A2...


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## scout24 (Jan 23, 2017)

2xAA on right, fresh cells.







Comparison, just because...


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## chillinn (Jan 23, 2017)

Those are pretty. The way I figure it, Surefire designed the system (head+lamp+cells+body+switch) to be rock solid, and for it to be rock solid, it probably calls for OEM Surefire lamps. However, if bomb-proofedness isn't an absolute necessity, then we can skirt with Tad Customs set ups, because the sockets only cost as much as a single SF lamp. While there is no guarantee that it will be bomb proof with the custom set up, Tad Customs' custom bipin lamps are plentiful and inexpensive, and they cast just as beautifully. Also, with 2xAA, there is zero concern for the cells. And your test leads me to believe even if ragging the cells, it won't even bother a pair of Eneloops one little bit... they may not even get below 1V, so ragging them might not even be easy to do if trying really hard. This set up is carefree, and the cells will love it.


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## vicv (Jan 23, 2017)

I'm actually surprised by your test. What you described is exactly what it should have been like with eneloops and opposite of alkaline. The bulb is probably drawing around 1.2A. That's a lot for alkaline AAs. I would've expected a continuous drop in output and yellowing as the cells discharged as alkalines don't exactly have a flat discharge curve. And capacity suffers badly from a high drain rate. That was truly amazing performance


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## scout24 (Jan 23, 2017)

I was expecting more of a warning of shutdown- yellowing, or a drop in output. To the eye, color temp was more than acceptable for all but the last minute, with no super obvious drop in output. Maybe a lumen or two? This was in daylight, but I did use a "control" light. Maybe the same test run with instrumentation would make the dropoff more obvious. A light meter or sphere, and a multimeter? This was strictly seat-of-the-pants...


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## vicv (Jan 23, 2017)

Hey if you liked the result who cares what a light meter showed. Your results just weren't what I expected is all but I'm very glad they were what they were. There's no doubt that 2 AA nimhs are better in every way but form factor than a single cr123 but it's also neat that alkalines outperformed one as well in both runtime and brightness. Almost 2 hours of 40-50 lumens from two alkaline AAs is awesome


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## chillinn (Jan 24, 2017)

cross posting to inspire some comment, positive, negative, serious or sarcastic.
Scroll down to "######## w00t ##########."


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## ma tumba (Jan 24, 2017)

Chillinn, if you need light so soft and easy on your eyes, you really need to consider various diffusing tools such as, for example, the F04 diffuser for e-series lights. Or Phaseburn's film for the front glass. They make a whole lot of difference that you may like.


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## chillinn (Jan 24, 2017)

Thanks for the suggestion, ma tumba! But I believe it really is the intensity and color temperature of the light that troubles my waking eyes, and only for up to an hour after waking at most. A diffuser should lower the intensity a little, but if the original non-diffused light is 80lm, it's going go need to be one seriously opaque diffuser to lower the intensity to make any difference to the lumen output. That said, I have been long eyeing and bookmarking where to get the red, blue, and green fliters, and the diffuser and beam shaper... and looking for more (is there a yellow, amber, and orange filter? probably will pass on the IR filter) for when I am ready for purchases again. It almost feels like collecting all the "sold separately" accessories for some favorite toy when I was young (which I never did, so maybe this desire is related to recurrence or relapse or something) in that it is fun (how can you not get them all?), but incan E is no toy, of course. I really need the plasma diffuser so I can battle the sith properly.


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## ampdude (Jan 25, 2017)

ma tumba said:


> Chillinn, if you need light so soft and easy on your eyes, you really need to consider various diffusing tools such as, for example, the F04 diffuser for e-series lights. Or Phaseburn's film for the front glass. They make a whole lot of difference that you may like.



I use this setup with two AA energizer lithium batteries in an E2L-AA and an MN01. It's a great reading light. Old alkalines work fine though too, just not quite as bright.


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## vicv (Jan 25, 2017)

I would think that would be much too bright to read by


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## ampdude (Jan 31, 2017)

vicv said:


> I would think that would be much too bright to read by



Haha, this is one of those posts where I can't tell if you're joking or serious. How could it be too bright to read by? We're talking about 15 lumens of diffused light.


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## vicv (Jan 31, 2017)

I'm serious. I find 15 lumens is much too bright in a dark room. Sometimes my solitaire is too bright. I know a minimag is and that's 14 lumens and a much yellower beam


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## ma tumba (Feb 1, 2017)

ampdude said:


> Haha, this is one of those posts where I can't tell if you're joking or serious. How could it be too bright to read by? We're talking about 15 lumens of diffused light.


Dont forget that when you shine 15lm at something 50cm away then this something is as brights as it would be if illuminated by 1500lm at 5 meters.


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