# *new* Fenix HP25



## kj2

Flood mode; Low 4lumens Mid 45lumens High 90lumens turbo 170lumens
Spot mode; low 45lumens mid 90lumens high 170lumens

525ft throw, 6400cd


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## spankone

Looks very interesting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kj2

Will probably be my new headlamp


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## Szemhazai

Looks nice, but why they are keep using the AA size batteries ??

4XAA *NiMH* = 4,8V * 2500mAh = *12Wh @ 121,8g*

2x18650 *Li-Ion* = 3,7V * 6700mAh = *24,79Wh @ 91,7g* (NCR18650B)

So 25% less weght and 100% more energy... And they already have 2x18650 battery pack made for BT20


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## beast1210

I like  more info


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## arizona1

What is the advantage to the Hp11? Its not actually 340 lumens its just 170. Im satisfied with the HP11 and the diffuser, but im curious what people say when it comes out.


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## kj2

Szemhazai said:


> Looks nice, but why they are keep using the AA size batteries ??
> 
> 4XAA *NiMH* = 4,8V * 2500mAh = *12Wh @ 121,8g*
> 
> 2x18650 *Li-Ion* = 3,7V * 6700mAh = *24,79Wh @ 91,7g* (NCR18650B)
> 
> So 25% less weght and 100% more energy... And they already have 2x18650 battery pack made for BT20



I think they keep it with AA's because they are easier to find.


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## Szemhazai

kj2, ask the users of : Zebra H600, Spark ST6, SD6, SX5, Ultrafire UF-H6... :candle:


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## blah9

arizona1 said:


> What is the advantage to the Hp11? Its not actually 340 lumens its just 170. Im satisfied with the HP11 and the diffuser, but im curious what people say when it comes out.



Maybe the 340 lumens occurs when both the LEDs are on at once instead of just choosing one?


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## beast1210

Szemhazai said:


> kj2, ask the users of : Zebra H600, Spark ST6, SD6, SX5, Ultrafire UF-H6... :candle:




I love my H600 but I use a Spark sd52 for wildland fire season due to the fact that AA's are everywhere in fire camp for our radios/comms. Would love a dual setup, I currently run the sd52 without the add on reflector with a Eagletac p20a2 mkii updated to 14500 c2 module for distance.


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## Bolster

Szemhazai said:


> Looks nice, but why they are keep using the AA size batteries ??... 2x18650 *Li-Ion* = 3,7V ...



Some of us don't like the idea of multiple Li-Ions next to our brains...I might do a single 18650 with a helmet, but never two 18650s for a headlamp. Yeah, my cell phone has a single li-ion, but I don't hold it next to my brain either. ALTHOUGH, 4AAs is an awful lot of AAs. I find 3AAs to be a bit much. And why can't Fenix do as Spark did, allow multiple cell options? AA, AAA, or various li-ions, as the user chooses? 

Back to the light...So to get 340 lumens I guess you turn on 170 lumens of spot and 170 lumens of flood?

Looks interesting, it seems we are getting more consumer-level versions of cave lights as we go forward. Can't help compare this to the Spark SX5 which has similar specs on 3AAs (with several li-ion options as well), except the SX5 puts all 350/320 lumens into a single beam (spot or flood, depending whether you leave the reflector or pull it).


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## kj2

Szemhazai said:


> kj2, ask the users of : Zebra H600, Spark ST6, SD6, SX5, Ultrafire UF-H6... :candle:



and maybe they choose for AA, so that non-flashaholics also choose for this light.


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## subwoofer

Szemhazai said:


> Looks nice, but why they are keep using the AA size batteries ??





Szemhazai said:


> kj2, ask the users of : Zebra H600, Spark ST6, SD6, SX5, Ultrafire UF-H6... :candle:



I often see this EXCLAMATION!! of distress when a manufacturer has the gall to use the most common battery available on this planet. Yes, why don't the manufacturers make their light specialist and severely limit their potential market? :thinking: 


Sounds good. Go for a battery type that the vast majority of people don't know exists (as it might be in the laptop battery packs, but they will not have opened on up to look) so that they then need to buy into a new type of cell and charger. 
:twothumbs 



Although kj2 said this already I felt the need to reinforce the message. 



kj2 said:


> I think they keep it with AA's because they are easier to find.





kj2 said:


> and maybe they choose for AA, so that non-flashaholics also choose for this light.



Fenix is aiming for mass market appeal, not the wishes of a minority who use specialist cells. AAs are also intrinsically far safer.

I think Fenix got this right of course this is just IMHO.


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## uk_caver

_Finally_, a mass-market twin-beam light with decent control.

Personally, if I was going to buy one I'd like a lower setting on the spot to allow for subtler augmentation of a flood, but that's just my own taste.

I really hope this light does well, and encourages other manufacturers to produce their own twin-beam models.


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## Street

It looks really interesting. Construction looks sturdly, I hope.

People which do outdoor sports like AA batteries and they dont use 18650 batteries. I know that Li-ion is better chice.
On the other side you can use LiFePO4 batteries. LiFePO4 are cheaper than Nimh, also they have less capacity. You save 62g weight with using LiFePo4 (on the head).

2x14500=36g + 2x14500 placeholeder=10g *Overall: 46g*
4xAA Nimh=108g *Overall: 108g*


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## snakyjake

I don't like protected lithium-ions cutting my light off and leave me in the dark.


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## Mr Floppy

blah9 said:


> Maybe the 340 lumens occurs when both the LEDs are on at once instead of just choosing one?



I'm wondering about this too. The runtimes show the individual light but I wonder what happens with both lights on? I do hope that it will be possible to have both on. Could have thrown in a red led for good measure too ...


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## uk_caver

It does talk about 'controlled individually' and 'spot and flood combinations'.

It's possible to have a table of runtimes for all the various spot and flood combinations, but personally, I'd be happy with simple figures for a single beam I can easily remember, and then work things out for myself.

If the combined runtime is predictable from the individual ones, I don't need a table.
If it isn't predictable, I'm not likely to remember all the elements in a 3 or 4 power level (plus zero) grid, and I doubt many people would be.


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## Szemhazai

It's quite easy to calculate - if the turbo mode does not switch off after 5 minutes . 

Based on 12Wh (4,8 2500mAh) battery pack it should be looking like that :

340 lumens (Spot - high, flood turbo) - 2h 20
260 lumens (Spot high, flood high) - 3h
180 lumens (Spot mid, flood high) - 5h

So the real runtime based on ANSI should be 2:20 or 3 hours.


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## uk_caver

It does seem interesting that the 170 lumen level is 'high' on the spot and 'turbo' on the flood.

If it really is a timed boost, giving an actual runtime figure for it would be somewhat misleading.


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## ToddM

The AA platform also gives users the option of lithium primary batteries for very cold weather use, and the ease of finding primary batteries almost anywhere at anytime. Several of those 18650 only lights were immediately taken off the Alaska field work in February list for the lack of cold weather performance.

Overall I like the concept, I expect "turbo" to be time limited as all the lights seem to be doing these days. Hopefully we see more of these lights come into the market, the idea of individually controlled spot/flood setups is pretty handy.


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## beast1210

any release date? CPF is the only place Iv heard of the HP25


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## kj2

beast1210 said:


> any release date? CPF is the only place Iv heard of the HP25



Think this will be late March, or April.


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## bill_n_opus

Szemhazai said:


> kj2, ask the users of : Zebra H600, Spark ST6, SD6, SX5, Ultrafire UF-H6... :candle:



No, ask me who bought a Zebralight h502d based on the AA form factor. 

Just because something fits your view of thinking does not mean it fits everyone else perspective.

I love the power density and output of the 18650s ... but there are many reasons to go for the AA route ... that hopefully you've read about in the above posts.


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## Szemhazai

It's good that not everybody thinks the same way - If not we might have iPhone 5 on 4xAA .


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## uk_caver

Or we might have nothing _but_ iphones.


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## Woods Walker

Szemhazai said:


> kj2, ask the users of : Zebra H600, Spark ST6, SD6, SX5, Ultrafire UF-H6... :candle:



I think those users numbers .000000000000000000000009% of AA users. LSD NiMH is why I like AAs but to each their own. That and lithium primaries for extreme cold during my winter outings. Honestly 75% of the time a HL20 or 501w running of 1xAA has enough output/run time for what I need.


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## kj2

Saw this pic from ShaoloGear in a other thread.







See release date of the HP25.


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## KarstGhost

90 lumens for 10 hrs with the ease of spot and flood control sounds just about right for my caving needs. 

I started caving with one of the earlier PT Apex models about 5 years ago...the spot mode was 60 lumens and would require a battery change after around one hour. We've come a long way!!


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## degarb

Crap. I was worried they would screw up a good thing. Only 90 lumens for 10 hours, and crap throw.

I cannot paint with less than 4,000 candela for 10 hours (Fenix hp11 currently 9.5h w/ good cells). I was hoping for 4,000 candela and 360 lumens for 8-10 hours like their Fenix tk35.


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## uk_caver

degarb said:


> I cannot paint with less than 4,000 candela for 10 hours (Fenix hp11 currently 9.5h w/ good cells). I was hoping for 4,000 candela and 360 lumens for 8-10 hours like their Fenix tk35.



At the moment, assuming a 'perfect' light with no optical or electrical inefficiencies, 360lm would be minimum 700mA on an XM-L2, so something over 2W electrical input.
4xAA would seem to be max ~13Wh (true 2700mAh cells at 1.2V), which would give ~6h.
With 2000mAh cells, that'd be more like 9.6Wh, ~4.5hours.


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## degarb

uk_caver said:


> At the moment, assuming a 'perfect' light with no optical or electrical inefficiencies, 360lm would be minimum 700mA on an XM-L2, so something over 2W electrical input.
> 4xAA would seem to be max ~13Wh (true 2700mAh cells at 1.2V), which would give ~6h.
> With 2000mAh cells, that'd be more like 9.6Wh, ~4.5hours.



I totally agree. 

The HP25 needs to use *two* 18650 Li-Ions, like their TK35! This would give us a worklight: 8-10 hour range, with marked improvement over the HP11. I would not hesitate to buy it. Especially, as Fenix doesn't gouge with their pricing. They aren't cheap, but not greedy. Their drivers are worth more money than the pwm fair of most lights.

The 18650 technology is projected to go to 4 amp hour soon, and now has my attention (and dollars) with the protected 34000 mah. Two cells weigh about the same as 3 AA's--with more than double the energy. AA technology is pretty static and unexciting. (I did buy 25 Turnigy 2450 mah lsds last fall from the hobbyking.) But apart from 2500 mah lsd, nothing new in AA lately.


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## kj2

degarb said:


> I totally agree.
> 
> The HP25 needs to use *two* 18650 Li-Ions, like their TK35! This would give us a worklight: 8-10 hour range, with marked improvement over the HP11. I would not hesitate to buy it. Especially, as Fenix doesn't gouge with their pricing. They aren't cheap, but not greedy. Their drivers are worth more money than the pwm fair of most lights.
> 
> The 18650 technology is projected to go to 4 amp hour soon, and now has my attention (and dollars) with the protected 34000 mah. Two cells weigh about the same as 3 AA's--with more than double the energy. AA technology is pretty static and unexciting. (I did buy 25 tenergy 2450 mah lsds last fall from the hobbyking.) But apart from 2500 mah lsd, nothing new in AA lately.



But again.. 18650 are not for the general public. AA's can be bought anywhere and people know which batteries they are working with.

Family/friends of my sometimes ask about my lights. They never ever heard about 18650 batteries.


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## degarb

kj2 said:


> But again.. 18650 are not for the general public. AA's can be bought anywhere and people know which batteries they are working with.
> 
> Family/friends of my sometimes ask about my lights. They never ever heard about 18650 batteries.




Fenixtactical is selling the 18650 cells and chargers. So, wisely or not, entry level Li-Ion buyers can one stop shop for a light and power source. Anyway, if you are buying a fenix light, you are not an average Joe, buying at a brick and mortar store. Also, few people I know could reliably identify a AA from AAA, nor tell me why AA is better than a D or C (cost, over longhaul). They don't have 100 AA NiMH's and 6 smart chargers, like me. When the battery dies, so goes the device, until next Christmas, for the next battery restock. 

If the HP 21 just used a standard *usb mini plug, they could do both*, 4 AA and two 18650--if the driver were designed for 4.8 to 7.4 volt range. Also, the option to mount the power supply on the back of your head (like the spark), necklace battery pack, or pocket/toolbelt. Also, a detachable cable may make warrantee repair rarer, as the cable could be replaced as it wore out. I say usb, because that cable is pretty tested, and is less delicate than ipod and other connectors I have tried. The car power usb curley cables are a good example of durable design.

Else, just a HP22 two 18650, for those that want an upgrade from the HP11, not a sidestep.


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## degarb

I wonder if they will be using the same driver as the hp11, and if this driver would support a 7.4 volt modification without an accompanying driver poof. http://www.amazon.com/dp/3095813090/?tag=cpf0b6-20

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pcs-2S1P-...354?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f18e51e62

I would probably put some aluminum flashing between me an the battery pack.

If price is right, they will get a number of curiosity purchases, even with lower runtime numbers.


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## florinache

Those 2s1p 18650 cases are crap. I had to rewire 4 of them (two 2s1p and two 1s2p) to bypass the protection circuit. And poor battery contacts too. Actually, even without the protection circuit I could direct drive an xm-l only at 1200mah (the parallel version). With the same batteries and without the case, 2200mah. I suppose this was due to the poor contacts/high resistence of the holder.

I think this light would work well on 2 parallel 18650. So no more fear of brain explosion.  
And the flexibility of power source, as of Spark sx5 would be a great step for Fenix lights.


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## uk_caver

For a light using remove-to-charge 18650s, I'd personally favour a 1s2p layout, since that's enough voltage for modern LEDs, it allows running on a single cell, and with a little smart circuitry it could allow running on differently-charged cells, or give a 'reserve tank feature.


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## degarb

uk_caver said:


> For a light using remove-to-charge 18650s, I'd personally favour a 1s2p layout, since that's enough voltage for modern LEDs, it allows running on a single cell, and with a little smart circuitry it could allow running on differently-charged cells, or give a 'reserve tank feature.



I have run the HP11 on three AA' s. It just takes more ampz than four cells.

Two 18650 would be lighter than four AA' s. I do think the light would sell better if it could do single or double. My concern is runtime. I am consigned to the heavier format for useful runtime, of three AA' or four.

Which is safer? Parallel or series 18650?


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## kj2

In this video the "HP25" is called the HL12. Maybe Fenix changed the name??


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## uk_caver

degarb said:


> Which is safer? Parallel or series 18650?


Direct parallel might be interesting if using seriously mismatched cells, though I seem to remember a thread somewhere where someone checked that out and currents between cells were lower than might have been expected, and I suppose that with protected cells, as long as the max output current was something a discharged cell could temporarily cope with, there may be 

An intelligent parallel design could be better.
Presumably any parallel design with remove-to-charge cells should really be able to cope with fully mismatched cells without tripping protection, and while still working as a light and using all the available power in each cell.

That said, given that it's not difficult for even a careful user to end up mixing new and used cells when swapping cells in the dark, a 2s light with user-replaceable cells has a good chance of not working (or not running for long) if full and empty cells are put in together, and a user could easily end up having to do quite a bit of cell swapping to be sure they'd got a light that was likely to run for long unless there were specific features to help them (like independent cell voltage indicators).


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## degarb

kj2 said:


> In this video the "HP25" is called the HL12. Maybe Fenix changed the name??



This video was appears posted some time at 6-7 am about one hour before this post. It looks to me that this video was surreptitiously shot on a cell phone at a show, by a flashaholic collector or downstream seller. So I suspect the youtube poster is using the wrong name. No relevant google results "Fenix HL12 headlamp"..


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## kj2

degarb said:


> This video was appears posted some time at 6-7 am about one hour before this post. It looks to me that this video was surreptitiously shot on a cell phone at a show, by a flashaholic collector or downstream seller. So I suspect the youtube poster is using the wrong name. No relevant google results "Fenix HL12 headlamp"..



The guy that shows the light says HL12 too.

edit; and also the black plastic on the top says ..12


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## degarb

kj2 said:


> The guy that shows the light says HL12 too.
> 
> edit; and also the black plastic on the top says ..12



Yep. Time will tell.

I just did current tests with 3 and 4 AA cells on the hp11, again. On the 9 hour 133 lumen setting, my crummy Harbor Freight meter had the 4 AA cell draw at .25 amp v. .35 amp with three cells. Strangely, I read very close readings for the 3 AA and 4 AA on the turbo 277 lumen setting of .7 amp. (fresh Turnigy 1.2 volt 2400's lsd cells.).. The lux test had same lux for 133 lumen setting when testing 3 and 4 AA cells. (output flat)

So, if the HP21 or HL12, has similar results. Looks like you could do the High setting with .350 per parallel3400 milliamphour 18650 cells for about 9 hours, with about the same or less weight than the 4 AA. This is, as UKCaver wrote, depends on if the low voltage cuttoff doesn't kick in too soon. I don't know if there is enough of a low voltage cuttoff in the light to protect unprotected cells. I am told that protected cells self protect for running down too low.  This correct? ... Someone would need the time to do runtime tests on 3 cell configuration, before attempting to modify to use 18650.

I have one of my six hp11 lights which is a little flakey on cord comming into the pack. If it get too irritating, I may just cut the cord and cut off the AA shell, and wire in two 18650 holders.

A simple design would be to just make two dummy batteries with wires to the exterior of pack and make a velcro attachement to one or two 18650 holder (dual fuel if you wanted AA again). Low resistance, as pointed out, is needed.


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## degarb

kj2 said:


> Flood mode; Low 4lumens Mid 45lumens High 90lumens turbo 170lumens
> Spot mode; low 45lumens mid 90lumens high 170lumens
> 
> 525ft throw, 6400cd




The more I look at the modes and stated runtimes-I must admit- the more ways of interpreting this info, and the less I think I understand about the levels....I hope they clear this up on launch. Just state all levels, what the combination is at each level and the runtime.

Of course, I love Fenix's spec sheets, probably the best in the industry--so, another reason I will keep buying from them. I don't trust, or even see, good spec's from most other manufacuteres. ... The only weird thing I do find about the specs is that the "runtime" doesn't have a footnote telling us the brand and capacity of battery to use to get the expected runtime. I expect the highest available batter per cell type, but I could be wrong.


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## uk_caver

They seem to test the HP11 using 2500mAh NiMH cells


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## florinache

Here are my measured results, HP11 with 1s2p 18650 in: 8,1ma-130ma-340ma-760ma
And with eneloops xx: 20-100-260-740ma
So, theoretically, with a 4800mah pack I'd extend the running time from 9 hours to 14 on high. And, strangely indeed, double it on turbo. And it would be about 50g lighter. 
I'll post the results for the real running times, and see where is the low voltage cutoff.


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## degarb

Here is a quick post of my 3 AA runtime results for the hp11. I do not know enough about 18650 technology to know how long an 18650 would run. 

Battery= three 2400 Turnigy LSD (54 hours after charge, resting time off charger before test.) Cells rate 2450 MAH according to C9000

Result: 6 hours and 50 minutes to loss of 133 lumen setting (again,using only thre AA)
at 6 hours and 30 minutes I had both turbo and high (133 lumen and 277 still working)
Final voltage of all cells = .99 volt (each of the three cells used)

*So, the hp11 driver cut off voltage for high is at a tad below 3 volt.* I used about 2400 milliamps at nominal 3.6 volts. 


Details: 
Between 6:30 hours and 6:50, I had light beside me. But could have lost turbo anywhere between....340 could be right, None of my meters are exceptionally good above 200 MA; and we know the amperage increases on this driver as voltage decreases--though the initial tail cap reading is still a good rough-in for runtime...*3.6 volt of 350 MA x 6:50 is 2390 at 3.6V*, not bad for 2400 MAH cells.

Unknown: Runtime on Turbo testing... Runtime with 18650 (on turbo where it gets interesting for me) (However if good on high, the next flakey HP11 of mine will be modified with 1 or 2 18650.)...How analogue the HP21 driver will be to the HP11.


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## florinache

Here are my results for the hp11:
1s2p unprotected sanyo 2400mah homemade pack.

9h30' on 133lm. At 3,2V high and turbo modes stopped working, but the 55lm mode was still on for another 9 hours, when the voltage of the pack dropped under 3V and I turned it off. 
So only 1 hour of light more (8h30' + 11h with eneloop xx) and 75g lighter, quite different from the "theory". I didn't measure the current draw, but it probably raises from 340mA as the voltage drops. 
A 3400mah pack would probably extend the time to about 12-13 hours. A bit pricey though. 

Conclusions:
I don't know if I will mod my lamp yet, I have to run some tests with better packs. The one I used beeing an old one. 
But those tests, made by degarb and me, raised a question: Is a heavy 4AA pack really the best option for those headlamps? (at the same weight and size they could make them with 3x18650 doubling the running times ) And I don't think the HP25 would be much different.


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## rojos

degarb said:


> I have one of my six hp11 lights which is a little flakey on cord comming into the pack. If it get too irritating, I may just cut the cord and cut off the AA shell, and wire in two 18650 holders.



Sounds like that's as close as you're likely to get to what you're looking for. Might as well go ahead and just do it.


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## degarb

florinache said:


> Here are my results for the hp11:
> 1s2p unprotected sanyo 2400mah homemade pack.
> 
> 
> Conclusions:
> 
> But those tests, made by degarb and me, raised a question: Is a heavy 4AA pack really the best option for those headlamps? (at the same weight and size they could make them with 3x18650 doubling the running times ) And I don't think the HP25 would be much different.



Need turbo runtime test with lower voltage setting. 

The Fenix TK35 has demonstrated an excellent runtime with two 18650's for 360 lumens for 7 hours straight. But the 4 AA format is not all bad. Not just for the obvious mass appeal. Also because it doesn't take a genius to make a dummy AA from tinfoil and duct tape=3 AA weight. I prefer the 4 AA since, if you work 8 hours, 3 AA format means charging 6 cells per light daily, with one swap (excuse for smoke breaks, which I hate/not good if you are being watched on an hourly job). 4 AA is a full day, if you have good cells and smart charger. Also, using velcro, and two dummy cells, and an 18650 holder, it would be easy to make this a dual fuel light.

The 18650 sources I see, so far, show $14 shipping and $2-$4. Yet to see if that is $14 per cell or one time fee. I am wishing for at least 4 holders, maybe more.

My runtime test today was a pwm (pulse-width-modulated) four amc 7135 driver, xpg2 at 1.4 amp on 3100 ma 18650 cell.. Got about 1:45 hours and was down to 3.2 volt reading, before it crashed. This light's driver with this 3100 cell would crash below 7 hours to get a full 133 lumens... Most telling is that the TK35 and its buck driver can get 7 hours of 360 lumens v. 1 hour 45 minutes of 360 lumens with a Pulse width modulated controller. Double the 1:45, and you still only have less than %60 runtime.


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## degarb

https://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2146231_-1 Shipping is about $8 per order. I appears to me, this could be easily modified to do parallel cells. I would just use my hot pink duct tape to mark the positive of the pack and cells.

Else, someone could sacrifice a light to test if the driver can do 7.2 volt without melting the driver.


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## florinache

8.4-8.6V when fully charged...


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## kj2

ShaoloGear posted this in a other thread; " *HL10, HP25 and HP01 headlamps*- All of these models appear delayed April to May release. " 

Seems it's still called the HP25 and not the HL12 as said in the YouTube video. Also a new headlamp; the HP01


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## degarb

florinache said:


> 8.4-8.6V when fully charged...



True, true....Now, hook it up to your hp11 and tell us how it goes. Just don't be tempted to send it out for warrantee, as that is fraud.

Just kidding, really, kinda. However, I am really interested in a runtime test on turbo with a single 18650. I don't have the holder yet to test that. I don't think a 3 AA test totally analogue to the 18650 for turbo mode.


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## florinache

OK. So, after another two days of staring at a well lit spot on the wall, here are some more results:

I made a new parallel pack, 2x2800mah 18650 unprotected Samsung. They recommend to charge those to 4.3V to have the maximum capacity. 
- On Turbo: 6h20' until is no difference between high and turbo levels. At 4.28V-750mA, dimming to 330mA at 3.5V. There-s still juice in the pack for another few hours on 133lm mode and many hours on lower levels. 
- On High: 14h25' until it drops to 55lm mode, at around 3.10V

The running times with eneloop XX: 3h40' on turbo and 8h30' on high. 

Conclusions:
- Asumming this new pack has a real capacity (5400mah) close to the nominal one one (5600mah), this means the first pack I used is really bad, at around 3600mah. 
- The light is fading as the voltage drops, but this happens with the AA Nimh's too. (This headlamp is regulated to a certain point?). I can't measure the real lumens (and in many cases is better this way  ) Maybe degarb will compare it to another light. 
- Even with those used laptop cells I got some 55% more running time for both levels. And the cells were not really empty, but due to the low voltage I can use them only at lower levels for another 10 hours or so. Careful with the discharge though, being unprotected cells.
- I'll modify the lamp to work with 4xAAs, 1x18650, 1x1s2p 18650 and a big 1s4p for the winter, when I must carry the batteries close to my body anyway, so the possibility to put a longer cable is needed too  
- With a 1s2p 3400mah pack you could get 7 hours on turbo and 18 hours on high, doubling the times you have with it's own AA pack. 

I'll post some details in a new thread when I'm done.


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## degarb

florinache said:


> I made a new parallel pack, 2x2800mah 18650 unprotected Samsung. They recommend to charge those to 4.3V to have the maximum capacity.
> - On Turbo: 6h20' until is no difference between high and turbo levels. At 4.28V-750mA, dimming to 330mA at 3.5V. There-s still juice in the pack for another few hours on 133lm mode and many hours on lower levels.
> - On High: 14h25' until it drops to 55lm mode, at around 3.10V
> 
> - With a 1s2p 3400mah pack you could get 7 hours on turbo and 18 hours on high, doubling the times you have with it's own AA pack.



This turbo runtime info should be useful and reassuring for a home/warranty-killing power upgrade to upcoming HP21 dual lamp, and repairing/upgrading my flaky HP11's battery wire. I will be happy with two protected 3400 18650s, *enabling me to use the Turbo mode for more than a few minutes* for fear of not getting a day run-time. (Also useful, if we forget and leave it on turbo.)

I am thinking now, 9 volt battery snaps would be easiest, and just using a square of padded industrial Velcro (maybe glue straps onto it with Amazing Goop.) to replace the current 4 AA pack. This will allow swapping back to 4 AA, if needed, and provide a way to mist proof the pack with velcro'ed black vinyl. Also, a remote pack, under a rain coat is an option.


Curly cellphone cigarette charger wire seems to be a proper choice of wire for rear and remote battery packs. I wonder if this bears out in anyone's experience.?

Maybe, long shot, Fenix designer are reading and will come out with these battery pack features.


----------



## degarb

florinache of Romania said:


> OK. So, after another two days of staring at a well lit spot on the wall, here are some more results:




This statement is too funny. I guess even vampires need good run-time; the night is long, I suppose. Just no IR leds, I bet.


----------



## uk_caver

degarb said:


> I will be happy with two protected 3400 18650s, *enabling me to use the Turbo mode for more than a few minutes* for fear of not getting a day run-time. (Also useful, if we forget and leave it on turbo.)



Shouldn't the point of a 'turbo' mode be that it is temporary, otherwise it's just a fancy name for 'high'?



degarb said:


> I am thinking now, 9 volt battery snaps would be easiest, and just using a square of padded industrial Velcro (maybe glue straps onto it with Amazing Goop.) to replace the current 4 AA pack. This will allow swapping back to 4 AA, if needed, and provide a way to mist proof the pack with velcro'ed black vinyl. Also, a remote pack, under a rain coat is an option.



I wouldn't go for a snap connector anywhere that was under any potential mechanical strain.

I used some 4xAA holders for a small photo light I made, and to get some robustness, I opened some standard snap connectors and replaced the wires with some decent-thickness silicone wires (18/20AWG) and covered the soldered connections with a layer of epoxy for insulation.
I drilled three pairs of alternately-slanted holes in the holder, each pair straddling the central 'rib' of the holder and the three pairs spaced equally along its length, with the holes just wide enough to thread the wire through, and with all bits of melted plastic cleared away.
The snap was attached to the holder, and the wires from the snap were threaded through two of the preexisting holes in the holder end, then through the sets of holes I'd drilled, and finally out the existing holes in the other end of the holder, where they were led out to a suitable connector, and any slack shuffled through to get the wires lying nice and flat in the holder.
Having the wires woven through the series of holes gave very good grip - they could really be pulled on quite hard without the force making its way to the snap end of the holder. This gave a neat-looking solution with no need for any other kind of attachment between wire and to the holder, and where the snap connector was permanently attached, minimising the chance of accidental shorts.



degarb said:


> Curly cellphone cigarette charger wire seems to be a proper choice of wire for rear and remote battery packs. I wonder if this bears out in anyone's experience.?



Some of those cables have pretty weedy conductors inside.
Though I suppose, so do a lot of headlamp cables.

All _my_ cellphone charger cables seem to be falling apart - outer insulation seems to be getting hard and splitting. But to be fair, my cellphone is so old it's a wonder the menus aren't in Latin.


----------



## degarb

uk_caver said:


> [/FONT][/COLOR]
> 
> 1.Shouldn't the point of a 'turbo' mode be that it is temporary, otherwise it's just a fancy name for 'high'?
> 
> 
> 2. I wouldn't go for a snap connector anywhere that was under any potential mechanical strain.
> 
> 
> 3. Some of those cables have pretty weedy conductors inside.
> 
> 4. All _my_ cellphone charger cables seem to be falling apart - outer insulation seems to be getting hard and splitting.



1. [The HP20 or HP10, as I read, could only do minutes on turbo, something changed with hp11. To me, anything under a day of runtime is turbo: causing me to run around changing everyones batteries during a workday, etc. We often accidentally run in "turbo" mode. ]

Not sure how true--I would assume the HP21 would handle heat better than the HP11 with 700 milliamps. Since, two xpg2 leds (170 lumen spot and 90 lumen flood) should be more efficient than just the 277 mode of the HP11's xpg. Time will tell the size of the heat sink.

2. Got a photo of your connector?

3. Weedy? Define, please. 

4. Having gone through thousands of dollars of earphones, most wires die because of cheap plastic insulators (or at least a good portion). They need good silicone, or some rubber that doesn't harden. Though, I never thought to Armour-All" (plastic conditioner) them. I have tried painting them and covering the cheap plastic with silicone. I don't recall if this helped.


----------



## uk_caver

I realised I didn't have any pictures of the battery holders (all the photo lights were sold), so I quickly knocked up a holder which was on my to-do list. It's a 2x2x2 8-cell AA holder for cells for a cave radio, but the principle is the same as for a 2x2 4-cell one. Because I've only just made it, the snap connector hasn't yet been covered with epoxy











The wires are 18AWG, diameter ~2.25mm, and the holes were drilled with a 2.5mm drill bit, slanted at ~60 degrees from perpendicular.
All the 2x2xN AA holders I have seen already have 4 ~2.5mm holes in each end plate, which is convenient.
If I put a decent hand pull on the wires, judging from the movement of the printing on the wires it seems to get transmitted up to about the middle set of slanted holes.


----------



## kj2

People please, this thread is about the new Fenix HP25 and not about mods of other headlamps.


----------



## uk_caver

It probably would be better elsewhere, not least so it's easier for someone who might be interested to find it.

I guess given the wait for the HP25 to be released, there's not much more to be said in this thread until someone gets their hands on one (and then it's likely that someone would start a review thread anyway).


----------



## Street

*Fenix HP 25*







*Fenix HP 01
*





-200 lumens
-2AA batteries (rear side)
-two LED emitters (red light)
-April - June 2013 (probably)


----------



## kj2

Thanks for the pics  so basicly the HP01 is a update of the HL30 

Where did you found these pics?

edit; if I fill in the serial number of the HP01 on the pic, the Fenix website says it's a HL30 :thinking:


----------



## Street

I found it there http://www.svitilny-fenix.cz/novinky-2013 (from http://forum.fotonmag.cz/).

HP01 looks better than HL30. Battery pack on the tail side is better solution.


----------



## theforester

Has anyone heard anything new about this beauty, especially it's release date? I've been saving up for a "real" headlamp for the past 9 months and am now beyond ready to pull the trigger. I was originally going to go with the Zebralight H502w whenever it came out (which I had heard was going to be in Jan, then Feb, then never :shrug: ) and I don't particularly want to wait to buy this Fenix if it will be on a similarly extended hiatus! 

Also, I haven't been on my beloved CPF in a little over a year, hope everyone is doing well! :wave:


----------



## kj2

theforester said:


> Has anyone heard anything new about this beauty, especially it's release date? I've been saving up for a "real" headlamp for the past 9 months and am now beyond ready to pull the trigger. I was originally going to go with the Zebralight H502w whenever it came out (which I had heard was going to be in Jan, then Feb, then never :shrug: ) and I don't particularly want to wait to buy this Fenix if it will be on a similarly extended hiatus!
> 
> Also, I haven't been on my beloved CPF in a little over a year, hope everyone is doing well! :wave:


I haven't heard more yet. Fenix had some more lights that where delayed. But I do think this headlamp will come in the next 2 months.
Welcome back :wave:


----------



## kj2

HP25 is in the Fenix product catalog 2013. That's now online.
- max 340 lumens output
- max 160m throw
- DuaHed system
- Make your own flood/spot combo

Size: light: 76mm (length) x 55.7mm (width) x 31.5mm (height)
Battery-case: 88.8mm (length) x 73.7mm (width) x 26.2mm (height)
Weight: 183.5 gram (excluding battery)


----------



## kj2

One Stop Knife Shop has listed this light on their website. Price; $69.95. Not bad for this headlamp


----------



## Mooreshire

kj2 said:


> One Stop Knife Shop has listed this light on their website. Price; $69.95. Not bad for this headlamp



Yeah I spotted it there a few weeks ago, called them, and was told that it's a pre-order and that they're not entirely sure when they'll have them in hand to ship.


----------



## theforester

Dang, $70 is not bad at all for a light like this, I'm impressed! Here's to hoping they release it sooner rather than later! :thumbsup: And by the way, thanks for the replies guys!


----------



## kj2

Am really intrested in a comparison between the HP11 and the HP25.


----------



## kj2

I wonder if the runtimes are linked to the led they are stated, if you have flood on turbo and spot on high do you still get 4h and 45min of runtime?
Can you turn off a led? (so you are only using the flood or spot led)


----------



## uk_caver

kj2 said:


> I wonder if the runtimes are linked to the led they are stated, if you have flood on turbo and spot on high do you still get 4h and 45min of runtime?


They will be times related to only using one LED at once.
For a blended beam, the runtime would have to be calculated.
It is unfortunate that they have decided to call the same power level a different 'mode' for the two LEDs, since it means that 'high+mid' is a different total power consumption to 'mid+high'.



kj2 said:


> Can you turn off a led? (so you are only using the flood or spot led)


They do say the LEDs are independently controlled, and that must include being able to turn LEDs off independently - the '4lm/205h' low level on the flood would be meaningless (and useless) if the spot beam always ran at at least 45lm when the light was on.


----------



## degarb

kj2 said:


> One Stop Knife Shop has listed this light on their website. Price; $69.95. Not bad for this headlamp




You mean Part #: FEN-HP25R4YW


http://www.onestopknifeshop.com/store/fenix-hp25-with-battery-yellow-body.html

No image, no specs and r4 in part number... Ships from Kentucy, where ,apparently, they lack digital photography.
Also, they are beating fenixstore.com and fenixtactical to the punch. 

Human nature says, I will believe that which I prefer to believe, no matter the contrary indicators. Screw you A.H.*!  I am clicking buy!

Nevermind, my wife just walked in.








*This abvreviation is not to be confused with the normal a.h. meaning. Though, probably has and will continue to be. It is a reference to A.H.'s anti hype warnings.


----------



## degarb

uk_caver said:


> They will be times related to only using one LED at once.
> For a blended beam, the runtime would have to be calculated.
> It is unfortunate that they have decided to call the same power level a different 'mode' for the two LEDs, since it means that 'high+mid' is a different total power consumption to 'mid+high'.
> 
> 
> They do say the LEDs are independently controlled, and that must include being able to turn LEDs off independently - the '4lm/205h' low level on the flood would be meaningless (and useless) if the spot beam always ran at at least 45lm when the light was on.



Then, only 4h 45 min on only 170 lumens, would confirm the inferior 2 AA battery source over 4 AA. Even only 10 hours on 90 lumens is pathetic. A 2 AA format, which would probably not be easily moddible to (one or two) 18650, where the real magic and usefulness of the headlamp would begin...I was holding my breath to see if a {yawn} camplight is born, or a real improvement over my favorite workhorse, HP11...


Based on price too, I wouldn't doubt if they also downgraded the led bin. If you think about it, 2 AA dual beam light is kinda like a 3 AAA single emitter.


----------



## uk_caver

Where does '2xAA' come from?
Not from the original description, or the picture with a square battery box.

As far as LED bins go, what exactly is a 'downgrade'?
Anything less than what a particular person might wish to have?

Not everything can use the highest-bin LEDs. After all, if no-one bought the less-than-cutting-edge LEDs, the cutting edge LEDs would be seriously expensive.

Looking at the photo, it looks like they may be XP-Es (certainly doesn't look like a dome-filling die), which could make sense at least for the spot beam, to get better throw.

Ignoring heat or optical losses, 170lm on the best XP-E (seemingly R4) would seeming take not much under 500mA drive, so something like 1.6W (estimating a 3V25 Vf).
Maximum 4xAA NiMH power maybe ~12W (true 2500s), possibly a little less.
That would be 7.5h ignoring output losses from LED heating, optical losses _or_ driver losses.
85% efficient driver would cut 7.5h to 6.375h
10% optical losses takes it to 5.7h

That's not exactly far from 4.75h, and it's not clear what kind of end-of-battery-life arrangement may be in operation, and it is making assumptions about the cells used for testing.


----------



## kj2

Spot:





Spot + Wide:






Wide: 







Beam shot of the HP25 from Fonarevka.

http://shaologear.com/blogs/news/78...cement-new-headlamps-are-coming-hp01-and-hp25
http://fonarevka.ru/#00000s20l29r60


----------



## kj2

I wonder if there will be two color versions. Like with the HP11 a black and yellow version.


----------



## kj2

The HP25 should be announced tomorrow/today (5/24)


----------



## kj2

*Features*

·Utilizes two Cree XP-E LEDs with a lifespan of 50,000 hours
·Uses four AA (Ni-MH, Alkaline) batteries
·Light：76.0mm (Length) x55.7mm(Width) x31.5mm(Height)
·Battery case：88.8mm (Length) x73.7mm(Width) x26.2mm(Height)
·183.5-gram weight (excluding batteries)
·Digitally regulated output - maintains constant brightness
·Two dedicated light sources with individual control system
·Lockout function – prevents the light from accidental activation
·Reverse polarity protection guards against improper battery installation
·Rugged aluminum chassis to shed heat and impact

MSRP $69.95

























MSRP $69.95

http://www.fenixlight.com/ProductMore.aspx?id=86&tid=13&cid=2#.UZ74Ppz3NRY


----------



## kj2

Runtime on the HP25 is much better with alkaline batteries. On Turbo a Ni-MH battery has the advantage but from high to low, alkaline is better for the runtime.


----------



## regulation

Hi Kj2, thanks for the detailed info! Looks like a duty-ready headlamp!


----------



## uk_caver

kj2 said:


> Runtime on the HP25 is much better with alkaline batteries. On Turbo a Ni-MH battery has the advantage but from high to low, alkaline is better for the runtime.


Arguably the main point I'd take from the runtime figures is how similar they are on alkaline and [unspecified] NiMH cells from the highest to the lowest level.
It does seem a bit strange that the alkaline advantage compared to NiMH in the four power levels from top to bottom (I'm increasingly hating their stupidly different names for the same power level on different beams) are -14%,+5%,+25%, and +7%. If the mid(flood)/low(spot) power level is low enough to negate NiMH advantage at high current, one might think that the alkaline advantage would extend to the low(flood) level as well.

However, given the 25% difference is for a level where the [unspecified] NiMH cells give 24h anyway, I'm not sure even that difference is particularly relevant. The light should be runnable on NiMH for two full nights in a row, after which I would normally be expecting to change/charge cells anyway if using rechargeables even in the unlikely event I had bothered keeping precise track of my usage.
In a situation where I had limited spares and had to squeeze every last drop out of my cells, I suspect I'd be wishing that the light had had slightly wider-spaced levels, maybe x2.5 or x3 apart, rather than x2 with a x11 spacing at the bottom of the range.


----------



## KarstGhost

I'm looking forward to this one and will most likely pre-order...but I wonder why they used XP-E...why not XPG2 or XML2? Wouldn't it be more efficient?


----------



## uk_caver

At least for the spot beam, if they wanted a tight beam in a small unit, an XP-E or XP-E2 might have been the best choice.
As far as second-generation XPs go, they don't currently seem to be easily available in a full range of tints.
I could certainly understand someone planning a light only designing it around LEDs they could be confident in the availability of at the time of manufacture.

If someone was going to be using an XPE for the spot beam, I can understand them doing the same for the flood even if there was less of an issue there regarding LED die size - if they'd done an XP-E/XM-L combo, then in a light which is effectively two lights in one, just differently focussed, they'd have ended up with different runtime-vs-output figures for the two beams.
Since they're releasing a light which is currently rather novel as mainstream lights go, maybe they didn't see a massive need to get ~20 extra lumens just for the purposes of maximum-output comparisons with other lights.


----------



## beast1210

I really enjoy the spot on the Xtar wk26 with xp-e, very efficient. the xtar meteor in the video is an xml for comparison.


----------



## degarb

What bin? I could forgive xpe choice if r4 bin.

Also, I might buy if the light can get 4000 candela at around 700 milliamps, with 200 + lumens.


----------



## k594

I pre ordered one last night


----------



## kj2

degarb said:


> What bin? I could forgive xpe choice if r4 bin.
> 
> Also, I might buy if the light can get 4000 candela at around 700 milliamps, with 200 + lumens.



It probably will have the r4.



k594 said:


> I pre ordered one last night


Great  let us know what you like and don't like about the light, once you got it.


----------



## k594

kj2 said:


> Great  let us know what you like and don't like about the light, once you got it.


most definetly


----------



## kj2

My Fenix dealer expects the HP25 to be in stock early July.


----------



## Chauncy

Woods Walker said:


> I think those users numbers .000000000000000000000009% of AA users. LSD NiMH is why I like AAs but to each their own. That and lithium primaries for extreme cold during my winter outings. Honestly 75% of the time a HL20 or 501w running of 1xAA has enough output/run time for what I need.



I can see why Fenix would be after that market, with that math only one 18650 user means there would be a ~ million billion billion AA users


----------



## degarb

Chauncy said:


> I can see why Fenix would be after that market, with that math only one 18650 user means there would be a ~ million billion billion AA users



Obviously, two emitters offer more control of beam pattern, without the loss of a diffuser. It also could help a bit with loss due to less efficiency when driven harder (provided not a pwm driver). 

The third advantage of a dual beam could be to step up both throw and/or flood, if we could also step up in battery pack capacity (keeping the high output emitter bin/model).

The hp25 promises more beam flexibility. But still, (as far as I am aware) the Sparks SX5 is king of battery flexibility.

(Fortunately, it probably will not be hard to modify the light to use protected 18650. Voiding warantee.)


----------



## degarb

I just pressed sales to inquire, and just got email with confirmation that the xp-e is an R4 bin.


----------



## spankone

Global testing campaign has started. 

http://www.fenixlight.com/NewsMore.aspx?id=72&cid=1




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mooreshire

spankone said:


> Global testing campaign has started.
> 
> http://www.fenixlight.com/NewsMore.aspx?id=72&cid=1



Potential free light if you promise to post about it on multiple sites within 20 days... Makes me wonder if it's designed to fail on the 21st day! ;-)


----------



## spankone

I wonder if the 18650 case will plug into this? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kj2

spankone said:


> I wonder if the 18650 case will plug into this?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which 18650 case??


----------



## degarb

Not a multi fuel light.

Just about headlamp can be modified, if the voltage works. Easier than a flashlight.


----------



## spankone

The 2x18650 case that comes with the BT 20 bike light that fenix make. . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kj2

spankone said:


> The 2x18650 case that comes with the BT 20 bike light that fenix make. .
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Of course not. The battery-case and cable are fixed on the HP25.


----------



## kj2

degarb said:


> Not a multi fuel light.
> 
> Just about headlamp can be modified, if the voltage works. Easier than a flashlight.



I have no idea what you are saying


----------



## degarb

kj2 said:


> I have no idea what you are saying




Then, forget it. You need basic electronic knowledge and void warratee, to make battery packs larger.
Unfortunately, only way to make most lights useful.


----------



## kj2

degarb said:


> Then, forget it. You need basic electronic knowledge and void warratee, to make battery packs larger.
> Unfortunately, only way to make most lights useful.



After reading your lines for the 3rd time I got it, I think. Again, the reason Fenix choose the AA-format is because everybody knows them and you can get them everywhere. I find it more and more irritating, that people are b%€#&-ing about it not being a 18650 headlamp.


----------



## spankone

For the sake of adding a plug they could give their customers more choice to run what they like. 

No need to get upset about it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kj2

spankone said:


> For the sake of adding a plug they could give their customers more choice to run what they like.
> 
> No need to get upset about it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



If you want to run what you want, you can get a Spark headlamp.


----------



## spankone

I have 2 sparks st6 and sd6. They are nice but I'm getting tired of the UI. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## spankone

Also for site work this one would be perfect for close up work as well as scanning the yard at night. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## degarb

spankone said:


> For the sake of adding a plug they could give their customers more choice to run what they like.
> 
> No need to get upset about it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



My humble suggestion to Fenix is to keep the 4 AA at $65. Don't touch that. 

Then, just make a velco retrofit 18650 holder kit and sell for and additional $30.

 The kit could be a two 18650 in parallel base at 3.7 to 4.2 volt, self sticking velcro (to be mounted above AA pack on center strap), extension wires (for coat pocket or tool belt), and the wires would lead to two plastic or aluminum dummy cells that would contact the + and - ends of the 4 AA pack. You wouldn't be able to fully shut the AA compartment, but a little duct tape would make it ipx-light rain. The 18650 dies, and pop in your 4 AA's.

I also like the optional form factor, Four 18650 (7.8 volt) belt packs for the $40 headlamp Bike DX lights. Surprisingly, the 4 cell pack is so light as to be unnoticeable on my belt loop. The DX problem is their packs aren't strong enough, the driver efficient enough, and poorly chosen drive levels. The result is I cannot figure out how to get ample lux over a full day runtime. The dx light's low of 3300 lux (for 16 hours) is just too low to work with, I can see, but noticing I struggle too hard to see, compared with the hp11; but the hight is barely 2 to 4 hours. I am sticking with Fenix.


----------



## ShaoloGear

I skipped around the thread, so I apologize if this has been mentioned. Price is $70 and I've been told it should be in this Thursday. But with customs you never know.


----------



## Bloke

I've been searching all over the place but still can't find a proper good review of this light. 
I currently have one sitting in "my cart" at a local vendor but am yet to pull the trigger. I'm looooong overdue for a modern headlight and am still using my old beat up fenix PD10 + diffuser in a fenix headband. I want to upgrade to something with more flexibility/modes and battery availability.
Mostly (90%) I do close work with a headlight.
Can anybody steer me to a great review of this light, or do I need to bite the bullet and be the first?


----------



## kj2

Of course there aren't any reviews yet. It is just in stores and Fenix hasn't yet shipped out the review samples. Sometimes you need to be the first one


----------



## uk_caver

Bloke said:


> Can anybody steer me to a great review of this light, or do I need to bite the bullet and be the first?


What kind of information would you be hoping to see in a review?


----------



## Bloke

uk_caver said:


> What kind of information would you be hoping to see in a review?


I get newsletter emails from various vendors that spruik products. A while ago I got some about this light. I had been looking for an upgrade to my current headlight.
The info I look for about lights usually ends up coming from CPF. 

Soooo, the "kind of information" I "would be hoping to see in a review" would be the kind I usually get from here but have not been able to find yet. Looks like I'm asking too early...

Why do you ask?

What kind of information would you be hoping to see in a review of a light. Any light?

I particularly like the ones by Selfbuilt. But there are several other reviewers that do a great job covering things of interest. But mostly I'm interested right now in opinions from anybody who has one and has posted their impression somewhere that I haven't been able to find yet.

Cool?


----------



## degarb

uk_caver said:


> What kind of information would you be hoping to see in a review?



Most reviews lack the candela at various modes and tail cap draws. They hardly ever miss less important things like the finish and how convenient the memory settings are. Lumen + Lux + runtime = Basics Then comes, ipx + color + build + form factor + color + price + warrantee + driver type (pwm or not).

On the whole, Fenix has been way above other fl makers, with their specs. The warrantee is best. But.. I am worried they have sold out to the dark side, with pwm. The missing R4 bin number on the spec page is usually a sign, that uptodate/quality may be on the decline. I hope not.

I am guessing (based on fenixtactical.com: this shipment hit today for CA, & USA by monday), we will start seeing blip user reviews (user beamshots) by Thursday of next week. Possibly, by Tuesday. I am unclear, if anyone has received any to date. If so, no comments?


----------



## degarb

I stand corrected, fenixtactical does now state R4! I don't think I could give it a good review without the bin. "It all starts at the led bin", say most "aholic" CPFers, or so I would wager.


----------



## uk_caver

degarb said:


> I am guessing (based on fenixtactical.com: this shipment hit today for CA, & USA by monday), we will start seeing blip user reviews (user beamshots) by Thursday of next week. Possibly, by Tuesday. I am unclear, if anyone has received any to date. If so, no comments?


Well, I got mine this morning 
I took it for a walk this evening, albeit with 11pm here not exactly being pitch black at the moment.

I've got the basics of a verbal review written, though I'm wondering about pictures - some things which stand out on white wall shots (like the inner/outer circles on the flood beam) don't seem particularly noticeable in real use, and there were things which I didn't really see on a wall which I did notice outside (like a faint halo outside the hard edge of the spot beam's spill).

Overall impressions are good, and pretty much in line with expectations regarding power levels and blends.


----------



## kj2




----------



## k594

I got mine in the mail today, first impressions are seems like a nice setup, the tint on mine was warm which I'm not a big fan of, for initial activation on either lamp you have to do a long press, I'm used to my Princeton tec apex that you click and its on immediately so this is a bit of a turn off for me but I might be able to get used to it... So far I really like the beam on the flood side... It's like a wall of light, then again I'm more of a flood fan other then a throw fan... I'm wondering how hot this thing will get with both lamps on high running for a few hours. Sorry I'm not much of a reviewer these are just my initial thoughts on the headlamp... Thus far I'm not extremely impressed but it does what's its supposed to


----------



## Bloke

Thanks K954. Your impressions are appreciated. This is the kind of feedback I've been looking for


----------



## braddy

I'm curious about flood, I too seem to want flood more than throw, for instance walking in the desert at night I want to see the ground in front of me at walking speed, for rough, big rocked terrain and rattlesnakes, plus, really, for most all things that I do outdoors at night.


----------



## degarb

It looks like the hp25 has the same battery pack setup as the HP11. The pack is uncomfortable for reading in bed with my head on a pillow. I may modify the strap/pack design with velcro, making the battery pack velcro on to the back, so I may move it up the center strap and rest my head on the pillow to read. There may be other uses too for this mod. My only fear, is that raising the pack from the head, with both layers of velcro, may cause angular inertia when turning the head.


-------
I find a wristlight can illuminate the ground better than a headlamp, even if the wristlight is throwy. (I don't believe in holding flashlights with the hand. I feel holding lights is very non flashaholic, showing a lack of total dependance on the tool for regularly doing things with your hands. I guess there is always the mouth with which to hold the lights.)


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## kj2

degarb said:


> It looks like the hp25 has the same battery pack setup as the HP11. The pack is uncomfortable for reading in bed with my head on a pillow.


I don't think a flashlight manufacturer keeps this in mind, while designing a headlamp.


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## ryukin2000

may have to buys this. i like the flood and throw combo. i was using my ZL H51WF last nite in a cave and although it was nice to use i would've preferred throw at times to see further down the cave.


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## ShaoloGear

Can't wait, I'll have these on Thursday.

I know the professional market has a huge interest in high quality headlamps. Let's hope this fits the bill. Very eager to see how it compares against lights like the Petzel pro line.


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## ShaoloGear

Now if it was only dark enough to actually test it. Alas, it's only 11:30am.


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## kj2

ShaoloGear said:


> Now if it was only dark enough to actually test it. Alas, it's only 11:30am.



Hope that my 'Fenix Fan of the Month' HP25 comes soon. Really wanna try it out.


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## ShaoloGear

Couple more high res photos here:

http://flic.kr/p/eKAcCr
http://flic.kr/p/eKMD23

These are way too high res to inline.


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## kj2

ShaoloGear said:


> Couple more high res photos here:
> 
> http://flic.kr/p/eKAcCr
> http://flic.kr/p/eKMD23
> 
> These are way too high res to inline.



Thanks


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## ShaoloGear

So goofing around, the initial impressions of this light are IMO, positive.

*The good:*

Neither mode will blind you if you have it tilted all the way down. I've found that to be a problem on the HL30. I consider this a huge plus.
Spot is very tight, flood is very wide. Both are quite bright. 180lm max on each.
You can have the spot flashing SOS while you have the flood on walking down your path in to helpless oblivion.
Headband is comfortable and battery pack really doesn't feel heavy.
Contrary to the complaints above, I find I can wear this while laying down reading. Battery pack seems to fit *my* head well (ymmv).

*The bad:*

There are some rings in the flood pattern. When you look at the closeup of the reflector, you can see why. It's very short.
Getting the headbands on properly can be confusing. I should post some pictures.
The battery pack has a screw on connector, but the wires are soldered to the board. You *could* make a separate battery pack and it would not require cutting any wires.
Lockout seems to mean you have to depress and hold the buttons to turn on the light, like the E-series. Not really my definition of a lockout.

I think this would actually make a great LEO light. You can use the flood to write up your report and the spot to disorient whomever you may be questioning. Just saying..

On high, both modes throw very well. I think this would make a great biking/hiking light.


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## kj2

ShaoloGear said:


> I think this would actually make a great LEO light. You can use the flood to write up your report and the spot to disorient whomever you may be questioning. Just saying..



I've never seen a officer with a headlamp


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## ShaoloGear

kj2 said:


> I've never seen a officer with a headlamp



I know, right. But think about it, makes total sense. Cops always need spot beams for searching and flood for taking notes. Would be perfect. Plus an additional belt light for those times you really need the juice.


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## uk_caver

I've got the first part of a review at:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...review-initial-thoughts&p=4223870#post4223870
Pictures and some end-of-battery-life results to be added soon-ish.


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## heniekk

I'm waiting for HP01 news/(p)reviews more then HP25; which is too much (weigh and size, not lumens  ) for my mountain/trail running needs. HL21 is really good, but more light on very fast descents would be great.


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## jasonp

kj2 said:


> I've never seen a officer with a headlamp


Depends on the LEO, down here on the border, they work good for checking trains (hands free for climbing), tracking, climbing 8 ft. "deer fences" (hands free again), etc. The only issue is, if the SHTF and you get in a gunfight, the headlamp makes a GREAT target so in most cases, it's not recommended. 
I got mine today, so I'll be putting it through it's paces..


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## buds224

Just received mine today. The buttons have very positive feedback and feels solid. Everything else about the light is as described. I love the light, but it's my first headlamp, so I have nothing to compare it to.


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## kj2

received my HP25 today  Will test it out during the weekend, and hope I can write a review.


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## beast1210

Got some night shots, here is the my 25 yards test range.

HP25 wide Turbo






Spark SD52 14500 turbo no reflector


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## degarb

I don't understand beam shots, if you aren't stating the current level with each shot. My 500 watt halogen, does better than any of my flashlights in any beamshot. Obviously, any of my flashlights (going back to my lux1's) do far better with the juice they are allowed to use.

I haven't got around to measuring lux, v. other lights with similar drive level. I do think that the hp25 flood optic offers significant photon management to areas needed by the eye v. a naked emitter oo:. Still, an xpe (claimed r4, but outdone by xpg r4). The color is way better than your Sparks.


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## beast1210

degarb said:


> I don't understand beam shots, if you aren't stating the current level with each shot.



beam shots help illustrate the shape of the beam, hot spot vs spill, they arent called lux shots  especially when comparing to different lights. When the same camera/setting are used it'll help show differences in power levels. comparing color as you mentioned.


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## uk_caver

So the Spark with no reflector is effectively a 'naked' LED?
Overlaying the tow photos and flipping between them, it does seem like the Spark is a little bit more centre-biased then the HP25.

I think beamshots can be tricky with flood beams.
For me, one of the most important things is where the edge of the beam is compared to the useful edge of my vision, and that's not something a camera can easily show - a shot taken alongside the light won't be wideangle enough to show the edge, and one from further back still won't really show me what my field of vision would have been.

Similarly for other factors like the meaningful presence of artifacts - what matters there is whether I'll find any artifacts which may be present annoying or distracting when using the light for real and moving around, but artifacts may be hard to see in any still pictures of natural scenes.


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## degarb

uk_caver said:


> Overlaying the tow photos and flipping between them, it does seem like the Spark is a little bit more centre-biased then the HP25.



Still, for all pratical purposes, that evaluation depends on wattage/current used for each led. Naturally, battery format & form factor will factor in to the permissibility of running higher current and still having a light you can depend upon. 

Runtime>form factor>lux>lumens>color, in order of importance. The first question nonflashaholic customers ask me when they see me with a headlamp is, how often do you change the batteries. I answer every 9.5 hours and they stay interested. If I say every 4 hours, they loose interest in the light (especially if they are contractors). Flashaholics, probably, are weighted toward "runtime be damned".


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## patpacman1214

just got my hp25 in the mail  grabbed it on my way out the door to work. As said before, the straps are weird to get right. havent really used it much more than playing with the UI, but it seems like a good replacement for my normal hiking light, my petzel tikka xp plus with a core battery. I like the ability to choose your beam profile since I tend to like throw lights more than floods when im walking. But the petzel isnt as nice for "in camp" since you get the bright spot and little flood even with the diffuser up. 
For anyone who is interested, this is info from the sheet it came with.
Individual runtimes per emitter and battery specs used in the fenix test:
http://www.imgur.com/Ea5PRDo.jpeg 
Combined runtimes with each variation of emitter:
http://www.imgur.com/57T50KR.jpeg
I want to do a mod for this with cr123x4, 2 pairs of series set in parallel so I get the same 6v as the AAs but more runtime. Can anyone recommend a pack for this or will I have to make my own? I dont plan on using 18650s with it since it will most likely just be a hiking light, and since im moving the rest of my hiking lights to cr123s from standards anyway, I would like to be able to use the same batteries. Though I will probably just add a connector to the wire so I can swap battery packs when I need to.


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## degarb

patpacman1214 said:


> just got my hp25 in the mail  grabbed it on my way out the door to work. As said before, the straps are weird to get right. havent really used it much more than playing with the UI, but it seems like a good replacement for my normal hiking light, my petzel tikka xp plus with a core battery. I like the ability to choose your beam profile since I tend to like throw lights more than floods when im walking. But the petzel isnt as nice for "in camp" since you get the bright spot and little flood even with the diffuser up.
> For anyone who is interested, this is info from the sheet it came with.
> Individual runtimes per emitter and battery specs used in the fenix test:
> http://www.imgur.com/Ea5PRDo.jpeg
> Combined runtimes with each variation of emitter:
> http://www.imgur.com/57T50KR.jpeg
> I want to do a mod for this with cr123x4, 2 pairs of series set in parallel so I get the same 6v as the AAs but more runtime. Can anyone recommend a pack for this or will I have to make my own? I dont plan on using 18650s with it since it will most likely just be a hiking light, and since im moving the rest of my hiking lights to cr123s from standards anyway, I would like to be able to use the same batteries. Though I will probably just add a connector to the wire so I can swap battery packs when I need to.



I think there is better beamshot and current info on this light at http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?363876-HP25-review-initial-thoughts

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?357373-Fenix-HP11-18650-upgrade 
Florinache did a similar mod. In UKcaver's thread, it is verified that this light can use a lower voltage.

On low levels, this light has a good runtime. This light is not up to my desired efficiency--not on par with my hp11, bt20, and tk35's output/runtime/balance of throw v. coruna. The design probably will sell because of the flood, and the design is just cooler than most. It would be most cool, however, with a flex fuel system to better enjoy the flood and/or runtime on high.

I own one dx.com 18650 7.2 volt holder, that used for the tests. I verified for a minute or so, that the hp25 does run on 7.2 volts, using less current. But, I would probably rewire the holder for a two 18650 in parallel (could use just one cell), if I decide that the unexciting xpe emitter is worth the effort for modifying--else use the holders and cell for more efficient xpg lights. (I have 6 more holders and 8 18650's on the way from China.)... Personally, I threw all my 123 lights away, just moments after the purchase (instantly modified my Browning nitro for 3 AA). I have never been impressed with the format. But will need to test if the 1850 holder can hold two 123 cells with little or no modification. I will to find the drawer with my 123 charger and holder, if not gone. I read 123 primaries are dangerous, but two 123rcr will be 7.2 volt.

The straps....I think the hp25 adjustment scheme is made easy--except I must adjust every time I put on my head, since no tension allows slippage. Maybe, I am missing something.


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## limax

yes the HP25 is great upgrade from fenix privious products such as HP11 and so on


it use the mainstream structure, 4AA and 2 leds one for spot one for wide
and can turn on simultaneously so you can get 340 lumens max.


it's very suitable for outdoor activities, hiking camping treking.


but if fenix provide an 18650 battery case which replaces the 4AA battery case is bettey


as above fellow said, 18650 can provide better ratio of energy compare with weight.


and nowadays most flashlights are run 18650.


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## Bigmac_79

I've got a review for the HP25 available here. :thumbsup:


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## subwoofer

Bigmac_79 said:


> I've got a review for the HP25 available here. :thumbsup:



Nice review 

Beat me to it - I've got a forthcoming HP25 and HL10 dual review.

Like the head angle adjustment animation, good idea that...... :nana:


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## candle lamp

Hi all!

Here is anther _HP25 review_. :wave:


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## Stefano

Wonderful reviews, congratulations to you both !


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## beast1210

Initial impressions, beams shots


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## subwoofer

Just to add my own input as I have now completed a dual review showing the HP25 and HL10



Bigmac_79 said:


> I've got a review for the HP25 available here. :thumbsup:





candle lamp said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Here is anther _HP25 review_. :wave:


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## kj2

heniekk said:


> I'm waiting for HP01 news/(p)reviews more then HP25; which is too much (weigh and size, not lumens  ) for my mountain/trail running needs. HL21 is really good, but more light on very fast descents would be great.


It's still out there. See photo. So it should come, it must


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## Street

Street said:


> *Fenix HP 25*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fenix HP 01
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -200 lumens
> -2AA batteries (rear side)
> -two LED emitters (red light)
> -April - June 2013 (probably)


 *Fenix HP01 will be available in September.*


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## kj2

Edit: fenix store confirmed that the grey version hasn't have 20lumens more. Just a typo.


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## rockhopper

Interesting, any idea when the grey version may hit the stores? (I wonder where that typo came from)


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## spankone

kj2 said:


> It's still out there. See photo. So it should come, it must



What are the other 2 light? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## rockhopper

The big one looks like the TK76 (one with and the other without extender tube) it's been posted in another thread. As for the small one in the rear, I have no clue.


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## Bruce Nai

beast1210 said:


> I love my H600 but I use a Spark sd52 for wildland fire season due to the fact that AA's are everywhere in fire camp for our radios/comms. Would love a dual setup, I currently run the sd52 without the add on reflector with a Eagletac p20a2 mkii updated to 14500 c2 module for distance.



beast1210, you are awesome for you can make full use of your products. But my HP25 bought several days ago brings me a lot of convenience, and satisfies my need better. My HP25 is just like my smart phone, I can use it to contact my friends, take photo, watch video, surf the Internet, play games, remind me of urgence and everything you can image, however, you will need to carry a general phone, a camera, a computer, a PSP, a alarm clock....................You can think about having a smart one to release the heavy load and perform much better.


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## Bruce Nai

Technology innovation makes life better!


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## Jash

Received my HP25 today. First impressions are good. I like the spot/flood options and I think this might become my new camping headlamp as it does the job of two flashlights in one, attached to your skull. 

No more reaching into a coat or pants pocket for your small thrower when it's needed. Just raise your hand and click.


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## john.com

looks great


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## ArmoredFiend

I am lost between getting this HP25 or Nitecore HC50. I know both of them run on different battery type...but both of them costs the same, Malaysian Ringgit $200. That's around $45Euro or USD$60).

I am more of a AA cell guy coz that's what i would be bringing overseas when i go backpacking. Went to a couple countries in Europe and both Aussie/NZ, asian countries aside. 

My next backpacking trip will be Netherland & Iceland in 2 mth's plus time.

I know getting HC50 will meant getting a 18650 or two (have only RCR123 all these whiles) but the 550lumen are tempting. 

HP25 on the other hand has both flood and throw on the same module, which is what tempted me, apart from the 30+ Eneloopies i already have. 

My gf will be using this headlamp on our next trip. Me on the other hand will be using a fenix head band with self-mod HL10 attached to the middle, a Nitecore Defender Inifinity on one side and either a Nitecore D10 or Fenix E11 on the other. Dont plan to have hand-held but will have a Fenix LD20 as backup in backpack just in case. 

Base on all my lights leaning towards AA cell usage, should i even consider the HC50? I am so in a dilemma right now. So many choices..so few cash... Help anyone?


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## kj2

ArmoredFiend said:


> I am lost between getting this HP25 or Nitecore HC50. I know both of them run on different battery type...but both of them costs the same, Malaysian Ringgit $200. That's around $45Euro or USD$60).
> 
> I am more of a AA cell guy coz that's what i would be bringing overseas when i go backpacking. Went to a couple countries in Europe and both Aussie/NZ, asian countries aside.
> 
> My next backpacking trip will be Netherland & Iceland in 2 mth's plus time.
> 
> I know getting HC50 will meant getting a 18650 or two (have only RCR123 all these whiles) but the 550lumen are tempting.
> 
> HP25 on the other hand has both flood and throw on the same module, which is what tempted me, apart from the 30+ Eneloopies i already have.
> 
> My gf will be using this headlamp on our next trip. Me on the other hand will be using a fenix head band with self-mod HL10 attached to the middle, a Nitecore Defender Inifinity on one side and either a Nitecore D10 or Fenix E11 on the other. Dont plan to have hand-held but will have a Fenix LD20 as backup in backpack just in case.
> 
> Base on all my lights leaning towards AA cell usage, should i even consider the HC50? I am so in a dilemma right now. So many choices..so few cash... Help anyone?



I have both lights and I like the HP25 more. Easier to switches modes, and feels lighter on the head.
Also having the choice between flood and spot is great.

Where will you be in the Netherlands?


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## ArmoredFiend

kj2 said:


> I have both lights and I like the HP25 more. Easier to switches modes, and feels lighter on the head.
> Also having the choice between flood and spot is great.
> 
> Where will you be in the Netherlands?


Aye..that's what really tempted me as well on the HP25...2 output type under 1 device!!!

I guess i will be going for HP25 then since i already fell for it when it was 1st released. Save myself the trouble of getting 18650 cells. Thanks for the push of confidence!!

Will be spending 3 days in Amsterdam..planning to roam the canals and some museums in the city on 1st day...follow by Keukenhof for the tulips on 2nd day and Kinderdijk if time allows and finally..last day will be spend going around Haarlem, Volendam, Alkmaar and Zaanse Schans... Would be glad if you have other sites/places i should visit..PM highly appreciated!!


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## shanghaiyuan

Today, I tested HP25 voltage range as following photos. It verified the bright drived 3.6v (3 Ni-MH AA serial batteries) is acceptable. 2 Ni-MH only provides 45 lumen flood available at most. Thus, 1sXp (e.g. 1s2p) 18650 can replace 4s1p AA (alkaline or Ni-MH). 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12457352583/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12457352613/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12457352993/in/photostream/


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## ArmoredFiend

Finally! Got hold of my Fenix HP25!!






Cant wait to try it out...gonna use it for the upcoming Mt.Kinabalu climb next week and see how good it is. If it can survive 4000 mtr from sea level...i reckon it should do jst well in Iceland. 

And for those who have never heard of Mt.Kinabalu..here's some info from Wiki : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Kinabalu

And a view from top :


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## KriegerKrieg

shanghaiyuan said:


> Today, I tested HP25 voltage range as following photos. It verified the bright drived 3.6v (3 Ni-MH AA serial batteries) is acceptable. 2 Ni-MH only provides 45 lumen flood available at most. Thus, 1sXp (e.g. 1s2p) 18650 can replace 4s1p AA (alkaline or Ni-MH).



I would like to see a version of this light that requires 2 18650's rather than four AA for the weight to run-time ratio. I plan on getting either this or a zebralight h600 mark II for caving. I've trashed a lot of light hinges in tight crawl ways I wonder if the hp 25 has robust enough hinges to be a primary in caves.


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## degarb

KriegerKrieg said:


> I would like to see a version of this light that requires 2 18650's rather than four AA for the weight to run-time ratio. I plan on getting either this or a zebralight h600 mark II for caving. I've trashed a lot of light hinges in tight crawl ways I wonder if the hp 25 has robust enough hinges to be a primary in caves.




Just cut the cord and wire in a single protected panasonic 18650. 

I have been using headlamps since 2005. The only 2AA that makes sense is 1 AA in front and 1 in rear for balance. This setup can be as confortable as a single AA in head (this was done by me in a aspheric phantom 70). A single AA makes sense for an EDC. My preference is 3 AA, 4 AA, 1 and 2 18650. I do not see why more makers do not make a 3 AAA / single 18650 headlamp; the holder for 3 AAA is nearly same size as an 18650 which can be shimmed (spring). I do own one flashlight that is an xml aspheric (I like smo reflectors) 3AAA / single 18650, and have made own conversions of some 3 AAA to hold a 18650. I really like the two 18650 the best (output/runtime/weight); once you get the runtime and output up, then you can use them daily for hours without worry. I suppose a single AA (I have no love for 123 energy density or safety) makes most sense for an edc that I would seldom use.


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## KriegerKrieg

degarb said:


> Just cut the cord and wire in a single protected panasonic 18650.



Do you have any idea where I could get a case for the 18650 battieries that has footman style hooks for webing & is IPX certified to some extent? I think I can figure out the cable glands to connect the wire from the headlamp, I just haven't seen a battery box that would work in wet environments.

Heres a link to a protected 18650 battery case but it is exposed. This would allow both unproteced and protected cells from the looks of it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-1S2P-3-...818?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ab89a5a2


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## degarb

KriegerKrieg said:


> Do you have any idea where I could get a case for the 18650 battieries that has footman style hooks for webing & is IPX certified to some extent? I think I can figure out the cable glands to connect the wire from the headlamp, I just haven't seen a battery box that would work in wet environments.
> 
> Heres a link to a protected 18650 battery case but it is exposed. This would allow both unproteced and protected cells from the looks of it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-1S2P-3-...818?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ab89a5a2




Anything you make, you would need to ipx certify to your liking. Not too hard to make stuff drizzle resistant, but making semi submersible is beyond making simple seals and waterproof material. I just carry cheap water proof lights that are dimmer than my main headlamps. Fenix lights are cheap enough, you could just buy an extra one that you don't modify. 

Also, only a fool leaves the house without a role of EDC duct tape. Only a fool.


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## degarb

KriegerKrieg said:


> Do you have any idea where I could get a case for the 18650 battieries that has footman style hooks for webing & is IPX certified to some extent? I think I can figure out the cable glands to connect the wire from the headlamp, I just haven't seen a battery box that would work in wet environments.Heres a link to a protected 18650 battery case but it is exposed. This would allow both unproteced and protected cells from the looks of it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-x-1S2P-3-...818?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58ab89a5a2


Anything you make, you would need to ipx certify to your liking. Not too hard to make stuff drizzle resistant, but making semi submersible is beyond making simple seals and waterproof material. I just carry cheap water proof lights that are dimmer than my main headlamps. Fenix lights are cheap enough, you could just buy an extra one that you don't modify. Also, only a fool leaves the house without a role of EDC duct tape. Only a fool.


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## degarb

http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S023038


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