# Bears and flashlights



## greenlight (May 25, 2005)

Does anyone have experiences with bears? Will a bright flashlight blind a bear and scare it off or just make you a more obvious target? What if a bear was coming into your tent, and you were holding your flashlight, would your try to blind the bear or hit it with your light?? 

Next question is, what do you keep in your tent to protect you from bear attacks? I don't have a gun, but I do have a small (3") knife.


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## Wits' End (May 25, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*greenlight said:*
Does anyone have experiences with bears? <font color="red"> YES</font> Will a bright flashlight blind a bear and scare it off <font color="red"> Maybe </font> or just make you a more obvious target? <font color="red"> Probably not </font> What if a bear was coming into your tent, <font color="red"> Stop it BEFORE it comes in your tent /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif </font> and you were holding your flashlight, would your try to blind the bear or hit it with your light?? <font color="red"> If it were part way into the tent, I'd yell and try and blind it. Would you rather have a maybe blinded bear in your tent or a bear that you've just upset by hitting it with your flashlight? Though a shot to the nose is _supposed_ to deter them. </font> 

Next question is, what do you keep in your tent to protect you from bear attacks? <font color="red"> Bear sized pepper spray </font> I don't have a gun, but I do have a small (3") knife. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I've only delt with brown bears never a grizzly so YMMV /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
The best thing is not to have a bear come to your site, keep it clean. Keep food closed and ideally suspended high. DO NOT put in your car!!!! Did you know a bear can pull the side rear window out of a Suburban? After chewing the molding off the other side? A bear can really do bad things to the interior of a Suburban. What's worse is that after the insurance is all done and a few months later you turn on the rear A/C, you find that a bear pushing 'gently' on the unit can break the workings into little non-functional pieces /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif. Did you know that when you are standing 10 feet away trying to figure out where the noise is coming from and a bear jumps out of the side of your Suburban an inexperienced "hunter" can't get the rifle pointed at the bear in time to get a good shot?
How about if your first experience with a bear is when your family is gone for four days. Leaving your house empty, or so you had hoped. Bears like to chew on Legos, Playmobil, cans of foam insulation, 60# buckets of honey, 50# bags of rice, couches, silverware drawers and lots more. Bears don't always poop in the woods. Do you have any idea how much fun it is to clean the above up?
We have had bears that run at the slightest sound and bears that you can stand 10' from banging on a steel pot that might look at you. 
Did you know if you decide to shoot a bear from inside the house because everytime you open the door it runs, you should be prepared for a VERY LOUD NOISE and ringing ears for a while. It doesn't take very long, for even an inexperienced hunter to figure out, that if you go looking for a bear that you hit but is still moaning and it is pitch dark and you are carrying a big spotlight in one hand and your rifle in the other, you can't handle the rifle and shoot the bear. It is time to go inside.
The above has all happened to me. 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif Sure go ahead. It wasn't funny then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif 
We haven't had much problem with bears lately they have discovered that our dogs and children don't like them. I am more likely now to inflict 'lead poisoning' on bears that show any sign of lingering in the area. 
I appologize for the long post. I didn't realize how fresh most of these 9+ year old memories were. I hope my initial advice helps. I will emphasize, keep them away.


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## flownosaj (May 25, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*greenlight said:*
What if a bear was coming into your tent, and you were holding your flashlight, would your try to blind the bear or hit it with your light?? 


[/ QUOTE ]

I personally would do my best to soil myself right then and there. Luckily, it probably wouldn't be too hard given the circumstances. The stench of human waste would hopefully be enough to persuade the bear that at least *I* would be no fun to use as a chew toy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't think I would try to hit the bear with a light unless I was actually being attacked. Even then, I doubt an Arc or Surefire would do much, even with a TID attached.

I can almost hear the bears mocking me. "you call that a tactical defensive light!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


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## Lebkuecher (May 25, 2005)

I’ve come across several bears in Tennessee but only have been chased down by a bear once so others probably have more experience in fighting them. The best thing to do is to not **** the bear off. There is nothing worse then a pissed off bear and when they get that way you just might have a problem. Keep in mind that you can’t out run, out climb, out swim or out fight a bear so you have to deal with the bear directly. What I mean by directly is not getting into a fight because you will not win. A three inch knife will not stop a bear especially if the bear feels threatened by you and feels he has no choice but to take you down. How you deal with a bear depends on several factors. 

There are several different situations that you might find yourself in but the most common is an early evening or night visit at a camp site. There motivation for being there is for food so make sure that you don’t have anything in your tent or on your person that will draw the bear to you or your tent. Make sure that you hang your food up between two trees high enough were the bear can’t get to it. When the bear comes into the camp site the best thing to do is to make noise. Stand up and slowly walk away but don’t make threatening moves towards the bear. If the bear walks up to you and you have no choice then either lightly punch the bear in the nose or get on the ground face down in a ball with your hands over your face. Another situation that you may find yourself in is when hiking down a trail you look up and see a bear. The first thing you do is scan the area and see if there are any cubs. This can be the worst case scenario, if you find yourself between a cub and her mothers then you are in big time danger. Slowly move a way from both of them and at the first sign of a charge then hit the ground and cover your self like I described before. If there are no cubs and the bear walks towards you then he is probably looking for food. Walk a way if you can. If the bear gets aggressive while back packing you may have to end up dropping your pack. They will typically bluff charge you to get you to drop the pack and if this behavior persist then just drop your pack. Other may have better advise but this is from my experience


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## raggie33 (May 25, 2005)

best thing to do with bears is to caryy 4 ounces a honey and when ya counter a bear pour the honey on ya belly and chase the bear makeing the sound of a goat once ya catch the bear punch him in the nose /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


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## greenLED (May 25, 2005)

AFAIK, bears can be curious and a light may spark more of that curiosity... forget the light and carry a heavy-duty bear-rated can of pepper spray. Different bear species behave differently, so ask around what kind you are most likely to encounter where you go.


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## greenlight (May 25, 2005)

That was the information I was interested in: lights and bears. I am already going to have my light with me on my trip, so if I encounter a bear, I want to know what to do. That's all. If I see any bears next week, I promise to post any results.


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## AJ_Dual (May 25, 2005)

I can think of at least one potential way a flashlight could come in handy for bear defense.

If you took a 6C or 6D [email protected], uncapped the battery end, removed the batteries, and then:

1. - Collect some sulfur from nearby geothermal springs. (You're camping in Yellowstone for this exercise. Otherwise, you might have to have some packed.)
2. - Acquire some saltpeter from deposits of bird or bat guano found in local caves.
3. - Gather some charcoal from the remains of last nights campfire.
4. - Mix the chemicals in the appropriate proportions, pour a measured amount down the tube, use a torn patch of your preferably un-soiled underwear as wadding, and then use one of the batteries as an improvised projectile. A handful of loose AAA's, or even better, a bunch of LR44's can approximate buckshot.
5. - Rip the switch cover membrane off, to form a touch-hole. Prime with a small amount of the remaining chemical mixture, aim at the offending bear, and use a burning twig from the campfire to light. 

Remember to hold the "[email protected]" ([email protected] + Musket) over your shoulder, bazooka style, as the switch, reflector and bulb were not designed to serve as a cannon breech plug, and are not likely to contain the back blast very well. I know this sounds very convoluted for using a flashlight for bear defense, but there are a few key points to consider.

- All things being equal, a [email protected]'s body tube makes a much better gun barrel than a length of alien bamboo of unkown quality.
- A bear is presumably not as smart as the Gorn captain. He won't even have a hand-made obsidian knife.
- Kirk only had diamond dust to work with as a carbon source, you had real charcoal, so quit your whining!

Assuming you survive, be sure to say "WHAT? SAY THAT AGAIN IN MY LEFT EAR!" a lot to the Metrons, I mean.. The Park Rangers, when they arrive to congratulate you on vanquishing the bear.

Otherwise, cribbing from the firearms communitie's bear advice, for bear defense flashlight, I'd recomend something like a Dorcy AAA, Jil-Lite, or Orb Raw. These smaller lights won't hurt as much when the bear swipes them from you and proceedes to shove them up your -


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## Lynx_Arc (May 25, 2005)

I wonder if bears have high frequency hearing like dogs... perhaps a dog whistle would make them want to leave.


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## Sub_Umbra (May 25, 2005)

Many years ago a very famous Alaskan bush pilot/hunting/fishing guide advised me that the most vexing problem with bear behavior was the fact that it was unpredictable. He asserted that what frightened a nosy bear or turned an attacking bear on one day could never be counted on to work again -- *even on the same bear.*

His advice was to always be prepared to try a number of things _in rapid succession_ hoping that one or more of them might buy you enough time to: A--get away, B--try yet more things, C--finally solve the problem some other way.

I was lucky enough to join him trapping and on a couple of his own personal hunts for both moose and bear and I asked him quite a few questions. Some of the answers were things that I would have *never* thought of. Once we were walking down a large game trail in a wooded part of the taiga. I asked him what he would do if a big brown bear came around the bend in the trail ahead of us and charged. He said, "I'd probably throw my (baseball) cap at his nose." I asked him why. He said something like, "Maybe he'd get a whiff of it and he might stop and fight with it a little. It might give us a couple seconds to do something else. Or not." He had obviously thought about this beforehand. Even though we were both armed he could probably grab and toss his cap, possibly distracting or reducing some of the bears huge inertia _at a greater distance from us_ than attempting to fire immediately. Maybe we would find firing unnecessary. Who knows?

The guy was half Eskimo and really knew his stuff. He really made me look at bears in a different light. Don't count on anything working. Kick, scream, punch his nose, stick your thumb in his eye, hit him with your light or anything at hand. Think about what you'd do in different surroundings. Anywhere you may run into one. It's a worthwhile exercise.

I'm with Wits' End on the pepper spray. I would invest $30-50 in at least one of those huge Bear Repellent Sprays for each tent. Depending on where you're going/what you're doing, perhaps one for each adult. 

On a general note, don't camp in bear country with women in their period. As others have said, cache your food well. Children pose a special problem as they may not realize the danger in hiding food or candy under their pillow even though you may have thought that you went over it with them very carefully. In pristine areas your potential danger from bears may increase the longer you stay in one place, to a certain extent.

If you ever stay in a long term camp where some of your food may come from cans, remember that the labels may be held in place with a vegetable glue. That can make even sealed cans a threat to your party. Either cache them or remove the labels, wash off the glue and relabel with a sharpie.

EDIT:

Don't let anyone bring a dog along. Even if you're very well armed a dog is a terrible liability in bear country and will *greatly* increase the possibility of a close incounter.


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## greenlight (May 25, 2005)

Thanks, Sub, for good advice. I bought a personal pepper spray today just to be safer. I might de-label my cans first, but I will label them beforehand. 

I like the try anything/everything theory.


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## LightToad (May 25, 2005)

I have repeated black bear visits to my home where they climb the deck, enter the open garage door, peel off the doors of my camper and shed, etc. I've always been successful shooing them off, making noise, etc. I respect that I and my family are intruding on their home range and I'm respectful of their right to exist. The flashlight is mostly to identify them as far away as possible. The light has zero deterrent effect in my opinion. One thing I will NEVER EVER do is shoot one. Unless it is attacking a person shooting it makes for an injured, very, very, dangerous bear for everyone it encounters until it dies a pitiful death for such a fine animal. Bear spray is a good idea and while in the wilderness or forest areas of Colorado primitive camping I have a Glock in the sleeping bag as a very last resort.


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## MoonRise (May 25, 2005)

Glock vs bear : Unless you are really-really-really-really lucky, bear wins easily. You can kill an elephant with a 7x57 Mauser (look up Bell and 7x57 and elephant), but that's not what you use/bring to STOP one. It doesn't really make the 7x57 an elephant gun. Pistol cartridges, unless big heavy and solidly constructed bullets with pretty good ME, are really not good bear medicine. A typical .44Mag 240 grain JHP or JSP with a ME of 1000 ft-lbs is not considered good bear medicine.

Go for a big cannister of bear spray instead. Remember that the spray is used as a defensive weapon (direct spray into bear's nose/eyes). It is NOT a repellent. Some folks have sprayed the OC around to 'mark' the area thinking that the bears will stay away and leave them alone. Wrong. The bears came to check out the smell of the hot-sauce the people sprayed.

A bear entering or in a tent with you in it? Sheesh, I hope to never have that much of an adrenaline rush. The flashlight probably won't matter much to the bear. Leave rapidly (about the only thing a 3 inch knife would be good for would be to slash an opening in the tent so you can exit rapidly), make loud noises, pray, spray the OC, do all of the above at once.

A typical structure (house, vehicle, whatever) is really not much to stop or prevent a bear from getting in. If they lose the fear/respect of humans, they climb in through windows or just bash a door open or peel a vehicle open. They are big, strong, smart enough, fast, and did I mention strong, WILD animals and as Sub-Umbra related they can be unpredictable.

For bears who are getting into structures, some Wildlife departments (Fish-and-Game, whatever they are called where you are) will try to adversly condition they bear to 'remind' it to leave people and their stuff alone by using noise, OC, rubber buck-shot, etc all at once to try and get the bear to not associate people and their smells with food but to stay away. They are smart critters and once they learn or figure out that houses are easy pickings, other folks can be in danger when the bear breaks into another house and there are people inside.


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## Wits' End (May 26, 2005)

Our DNR has stopped catch and release at a distance w/ problem bears as they come back to the areas where they find food. They shoot them now. I too realize that we are in their teritory but I value my (and my families) life more than theirs.


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## MoonRise (May 26, 2005)

Herb,

I left out that the next step for the wildlife department to take with a 'problem' bear after trying aversive conditioning is usually the last step for the bear. They kill it.

And "catch and relocate" really doesn't work at all. Bears are big, strong, fast, smart, and can cover a lot of ground pretty quickly. The wildlife department here relocated a nuisance bear hundreds of miles away (I don't remember now if it was 300 or 500 miles away, but it was up there) and the bear returned within about three months.

Not counting people and vehicles, about the only predator/threat to an adult bear is usually another bear. Cubs run and climb a tree, sows protect their cubs, boars rule the hierarchy (to the extent that mostly solitary critters have a hierarchy). Size matters.

Back to flashlights. L2 on high in one hand and big cannister of bear spray in the other. At the range you can use the spray, you want a bright flood of light.


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## zespectre (May 26, 2005)

Long post so please be patient, I do eventually get to the point. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

In the course of about 25 years of hiking and backpacking I've had a lot of bear encounters, the majority being with black bears, a couple of brown bear, and only one Kodiak who was waaaaaay off in the distance!

I would characterize my encounters into 4 groups and a rough (unscientific) percentile for the frequency it happened. 

1) Bears in the area - I saw signs, may have heard noise, but never actually caught sight of the bear(s). 80%

2) Seen at a distance - I had a good viewing of the bear(s) at a distance (no closer than 60 yards). Bears essentially were aware of human presence but didn't seem to care one way or another. 14%

3) Curious Bear (not agressive) - The bear(s) approached to closer than 30-40 yards and seemed curious. Noisy behavior quickly drove them off. 5% (mostly in major parks where the bears became habituated to humans)

4) Agressive encounter - Bear agressively approached and was not particularly detered by noise or other "anti-bear" behavior. 1%

In the case of #3 a bright light might have helped too but mostly it seemed to be the noise that warded them off.

I've had a #4 happen twice. 
The first time I came out of a dense stand of trees into a field and found myself basically standing in a triangle with a momma black bear and her cub (each of us about 20 yards from the other). Momma charged me whoofing and warning and when I backed back into the trees she veered off towards her cub and they ran away in another direction. In that situation a flashlight of any type would have been worthless (daylight and momma defending her young).

The other time was evening and a black bear came around the edge of the campsite (three humans present and making a typical amount of noise) and started whoofing. We made a lot of noise yelling and banging pans but the bear stayed put. After about a minute it(he, she, damned if I know) made a short charge into the clearing and was repelled by my friend who had a cannister of bear spray and had pulled it out while the other two of us were making a racket. After the bear took off we did a quick look around and found a deer carcas that had probably been killed and left there before we showed up and set up camp. We packed up and got out of that area. Again, In that situation a flashlight of any type would probably have been worthless (bear defending it's food).

I SERIOUSLY doubt any kind of flashlight would help, though a very long running one might assist searchers in finding your body after a worst case scenario. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

If you want to be safe around bears, get educated about bear behavior and carry something like this bear kit...
https://store.udap.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=P&Product_Code=BSK&Category_Code=BS
(I especially like the safety can for when you are transporting the spray in a car)

Oh, and if you do buy bear spray, learn to use it. Spraying it into the wind will hurt YOU - A LOT!


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## Mednanu (May 26, 2005)

Remember - you don't have to run faster than the bear....you just have to run faster than the *other guy* running away from the bear. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


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## greenLED (May 26, 2005)

you cannot outrun a bear.


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## gorn (May 26, 2005)

My last close encounter with a bear was a couple of years ago on an overnight campout in the Trinity Alps. Since it was only an "overnighter" trip we were in a pup tent instead of the motor home. 

I heard a noise and looked out of the tent, only to be looking right into the bears butt. My first reaction was to pick up the 9mm pistol I had. Then reality set in. I realized that even though I had blacktalon JHP ammo, the 9mm was just going to **** the bear off if I shot it.

We just kept quiet and the bear wandered off to destroy ice chests that had been left out by other campers that have never dealt with bears before. Now if i'm in a tent the minimum firearm I have is a .357 magnum with some hot ammo. I have a lever action .45 long colt in the motor home.

As for using a 3" knife on a bear.... At least you would die knowing you really annoyed the bear when you stabbed it. Pepper spray is probably a good alternative if you don't have a pistol. I bring that too so I can at least try to be less than lethal with the bear.


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## Gene (May 26, 2005)

This one I can answer as I live with bears. I live on a mountainside in a forest off of an old logging road with no nearby neighbors and bears are a fairly common occurrence here. These of course are black bears and not grizzlies but some of these that come around my cabin are 400 lbs. and some much larger. I can assure though, a bright light can be a deterrent.

When I moved here from the Los Angeles area almost thirteen years ago, I have to admit, I was a little paranoid about moving into a forest with bears and cougars and all manner of creatures.

The reason I know a bright light will deter a bear is because I've experienced it a few times! My first time was about six months after I moved here and I had returned from fishing on the Sacramento River which is about 300 yards below my cabin. I went into my cabin and had left my stringer of trout outside for a few minutes and some were dripping blood. It was a little past sunset and when I walked outside to retrieve the stringer a large bear was about 50 feet away coming towards the stringer. Luckily, I had a portable LSI spotlight just behind my cabin door and I grabbed it and hit him in the face with the beam. He reared up on his hind legs and shook his head from side to side. He stayed on his hind legs which seemed like an eternity but in real time was probably around 10 seconds. He finally dropped to all fours and disappeared into the forest. I was shaken but so was he, (he didn't make a sound), but he DID NOT like that blast of light in his face!

I've had a couple other experiences where a light sent some inquisitive bears scampering and I won't bore you with the details but one time I used a stock 4XD maglite to do the scaring. Loud noises also work well.

Bears are shy creatures and can become bold when the scent of food overrides their natural fear of humans. Like humans, there is the rare rouge individual who's bolder than most and can cause trouble but 99.9% of all bears are not the vicious killers some think they are.

Sure, there's no guarantees but in my experiences, a bright light can and HAS detered bears. Heck, it's always a good idea to have a bright light with you whether you're in bear country or not. All in all, I prefer bears over humans as neighbors! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Sub_Umbra (May 26, 2005)

While it runs against almost every fiber in my being to say this, there are very few potential bear encounters I can envision where I'd prefer a pistol to a big can of bear mace. Even if you're going to come down on him with a skillfully tricked up 12 ga with everything set up just right, there's something really scary about an animal that can still take the front half of your head off with one quick swat -- even after his heart hasn't beaten in 3 1/2 minutes.

There are really only a couple of _reliable_ ways to take out bears with firearms: You may cause massive blood loss that causes him to shut down and drop in his tracks, or you can break the bones that he needs to use continue to move towards you.

With a pistol _OR_ a revolver you will really have your work cut out for you if you try to create the kind of huge blood loss needed to stop him while he's still in his tracks (as opposed to _while he's in your tracks_) in the kind of defensive situation that the OP is talking about. Can it be done? Once in a while. I had a friend (a guide) who is the only person I have ever known to kill a wounded, charging Alaskan brown bear (worlds largest omnivore) with a pistol. Amazingly, he did it with a stock 9mm Browning Hi-Power. He used all fourteen shots. He was fully awake at the time. He was on his feet and standing out in the open in the light. He was skilled, methodical and knew his target. He was lucky. The bear bleed out as it charged and dropped right at his feet.

The other option is even more remote. A bears large bone's cannot be _reliably_ broken by any pistol _or_ revolver cartridge in any kind of defensive situation. That pretty much rules out lucky 'nerve center' shots with handguns against bears for the same reason.

Don't get me wrong, I'm confident that there are guys out there who know exactly what they're doing and can kill a bear with a 22 short -- but they can only do it on _their_ terms -- not in a tent.

The best situation IMO would be a gun _and_ the bear mace, but not necessarily for the reasons you'd think. The firearm will, of course, offer options against the bear that one wouldn't have without it, but that's only the minor reason. The real benefit of a firearm in this situation is that the bearer (no pun) will feel more secure, more comfortable and have more confidence in himself. This added psychological edge that a firearm may bring to fast and loose situations like this should not be underestimated.

I have been in quite a few situations where having a firearm was very comforting and contributed to the resolution -- without ever being used in it's capacity as a firearm. More options is always better than less options in an emergency. More options in a crisis will allow a person to often think more clearly -- and that's good.

IMO that is usually the REAL value of a gun in a bear encounter. It used to be that people widely understood this secondary value of firearms in our society. On the positive side, there are still probably more who feel that way here at CPF than in the general population.


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## gadget_lover (May 26, 2005)

A buddy went camping with her husband and she brought back this story;

They were in a remote area but still at a designated camp ground. They set up camp and had a wonderful day. In the middle of the evening a bear dropped by their camp. While they huddled in the back of the camper the bear calmly ransacked everything he could reach. Her husband called the ranger station on his cell phone while they watched. I guess they were not that remote, huh? They were instucted to stay still.

A ranger showed up. He grabbed a rifle and walked up to the bear yelling "Shoo! Bad bear! Shoo!" The bear watched him approach. The ranger finally raised his gun and fired, all the time yelling "Shoo! Bad bear!". The bear took off like his life depended on it.

The ranger got to talking with them, and said this bear had been a problem for the campers. It had lost it's fear of humans. The rifle had several rubber bullets in the magazine. The ranger was trying to recondition the bear. While they were sitting there, the same bear came lumbering down a path, right back to their camp. Sandy says she'll never forget the picture of the three of them standing there yelling "Bad Bear! Shoo!" at the poor thing as it turned and walked away.

Maybe that will work for you Geenlight. Repeat after me: Bad Bear! Shoo!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Daniel
(BTW, anyone mention grizzley bear bells yet?)


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## Sub_Umbra (May 26, 2005)

Park bears scare the poo out of me.


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## greenlight (May 26, 2005)

As far as shooting a bear, only a shot in the eye is a guaranteed kill. The skull is too thick for the bullet to enter, but the orbit presents a vulnerability. I don't shoot guns, so I've just been thinking of ways to scare a bear if necessary. I'd probably start throwing rocks if I had them.

At night, in the camp, I tend to wake easily and I like to look outside to see the stars, etc. If I shine my infinity around I become a target. A much brighter light would be necessary to blind an attacking animal. So I'm taking my Streamlight 4AA. That's pretty bright.


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## Mednanu (May 26, 2005)

A bear is one of the few animals that if you have no other suitable deterents, sheer agression, noise and waving your arms around like a madman sometimes works to scare them off. It's the 'badger' strategy - sound loud and mean enough and 15 lbs of screamin' hell can be enough to deter 1500 lbs of lumbering blubber. I guess the bear just thinks that while he definitely could take the badger, that badger is going to make something on the bear hurt or sting real bad in trying to do so, so he might as well just move on to easier prey.

If you're lucky, the bear might just take the lazy man's approach and move on....but I'd still feel a lot more comfortable with a good can of foaming bear spray or something in the 30.06 caliber or above....way above.


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## RebelRAM (May 27, 2005)

To approach this from a different angle. Where are you planning on going camping? I would bet that you probably won't even see a bear on your camping trip.

Be alert, use common sense and don't do anything stupid. 99.9% of the time animals won't even bother you even if they do see you.

Just go out and enjoy your camping trip and the wilderness around you.


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## greenlight (Jun 7, 2005)

The trip was a success. 5 guys rafted the trinity/klamath river to the pacific ocean in 7 days. Only one bear was spotted the whole time, but never in our campsites. We were really lucky.

We didn't stay up late, so I never really used my flashlights much. The infinity ultra was the most useful light I brought, lighting up my tent nicely and providing enough light to read by for a few minutes at night. I tested my green inova x1 and the beam reached across the river. Very visible and very bright. Not too useful in the woods, though. 

My dad packed high strength ammonia into squeeze bottles. The idea was to squirt the bears if they created a problem. It turns into nitric acid when it hits the nose- very unappealing. Never tested it out, although a small drop in the tent was very noxious.


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## moldyoldy (Sep 3, 2012)

Bump! I was hunting for another similar subject and happened across this old thread. There is one method of dealing with unpleasant bears that has proven 100% effective with a long track record. one. 

When I worked in northern Idaho in the USFS, there were ocassional exchanges of info with Canadian forestry and/or wildlife officials. How to deal with nuisance bears of any size was one of the subjects. 

If the Canadians could not trap the bear easily, they shot it. 

If they could trap the bear, the trap w/bear was placed in the back of a pickup and transported to the desired remote location and parked with the trap opening in to the wind/breeze. Another pickup was parked next to but just behind the pickup with the trapped bear such that the bear could not smell the humans. In the bed of this pickup a chair was bolted down to the bed. A ranger sat down on the chair with at least two trench-cleaner shotguns - meaning loaded with at least 6-8 rounds each and maybe a trigger disconnector. A trigger disconnector allows the shooter to simply pump the shotgun to fire with no requirement to pull the trigger. He held one shotgun, the other was laid next to him. The loadout of the shotguns was alternating 00 buck and heavy slugs. The shotgun loadout philosophy? The 00 buck shredded the surface muscles, the slugs penetrated and broke bones. The shooter practiced with both shotguns earlier in the day - the practice shooting session had to be the same day. The shooter was sitting in the chair so as to not present an obvious image to the bear since his head was below the cab height. 

When the shooter was ready, the bear trap was opened. The bear jumped out and first lumbered away from the pickups. The bear normally stopped after a short distance and swung his head around looking back. If the bear then proceeded on his way, peace be to the bear. If the bear turned, the shooter sitting in the pickup opened fire and _emptied_ the first shotgun into the bear. He then picked up the second shotgun and looked in the direction of the bear, usually either on the ground or dragging himself along the ground by now. If the bear moved in any way, the second shotgun was _emptied_ in to the bear. Many bears were still attempting to do something after the first shotgun loadout. No bear survived the second shotgun loadout. Oh yes, depending on the size of the bear, there was another shooter elsewhere with a .375 or similar caliber just in case. The shooters had nerves!!!

Note: Shotgun trigger disconnectors were often used in the wars - a very effective combination on charging troops.


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