# Best protected 18650 batteries out now for flashlights?



## Collins (Dec 26, 2016)

I'm looking at probably getting the Zebralight headlamp H600Fc MK III. Seems like that is the best floody out from what I can tell. Seem it doesn't have bad colors that some have reported with the XHP35 headlamps.

I've just got the new Xtar Dragon VP4 charger for whater headlamp/batteries I go with.

I'm need a high quality 18650 battery. Recommendations? I've read of there being a 3600Mh out there that is on back order or something?

Looking for a high quality Panasonic cell with a very good protection circuit put in.

Thanks


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## Trango (Dec 26, 2016)

HI, first of, beware that the H600Fc only accepts batteries up to 69mm long, that said the Eagletac 3500mAh should do the job (68,5mm long), inside is a Sanyo NCR18650GA cell.


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## JLeephoto (Dec 26, 2016)

Trango said:


> HI, first of, beware that the H600Fc only accepts batteries up to 69mm long, that said the Eagletac 3500mAh should do the job (68,5mm long), inside is a Sanyo NCR18650GA cell.



The Sanyo NCR18650GA is sold on the ZL site. I got some when I ordered my H600fd MKiii HI and am happy with both light and cells.


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## vicv (Dec 26, 2016)

I wouldn't get too hung up on it being a Panasonic. There are cells of equal or better quality from Samsung, LG, and sanyo. Also don't zl now recommend non protected cells?


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## StorminMatt (Dec 26, 2016)

vicv said:


> I wouldn't get too hung up on it being a Panasonic. There are cells of equal or better quality from Samsung, LG, and sanyo. Also don't zl now recommend non protected cells?



I think a MAJOR reason why lots of people get hung up on Sanyo/Panasonic is that, if one insists on using only protected cells, few other cells are available protected. How often, for instance, do you find protected Samsung cells? If you wish to use some of these other cells, you can only use them unprotected. And not everyone is willing to do this.

As for the H600Fc III, I'm not sure what Zebralight recommends. Unlike the SC600 III and SC63, these headlamps actually still use dual springs, and can accommodate peotected cells. But unprotected cells WILL work better. And given Zebralight's good internal protection circuits, there is no reason NOT to use them.


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## vicv (Dec 26, 2016)

Good point never thought of no one using other cells with protection circuits


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## stephenk (Dec 26, 2016)

Collins said:


> I'm looking at probably getting the Zebralight headlamp H600Fc MK III. Seems like that is the best floody out from what I can tell. Seem it doesn't have bad colors that some have reported with the XHP35 headlamps.
> 
> I've just got the new Xtar Dragon VP4 charger for whater headlamp/batteries I go with.
> 
> ...


In which country do you live? Due to li-ion shipping regulations, the answer can affect the recommendations.


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## StorminMatt (Dec 26, 2016)

vicv said:


> Good point never thought of no one using other cells with protection circuits



When you think about it, protected cells are just about the only reason why anyone out there still buys the NCR18650B anymore. There are certainly FAR better cells out there these days than the NCR18650B, and many of them are either cheaper or little more expensive (including Sanyo's NCR18650GA). But because SO many rewrappers are still using this cell for protected cells, people continue to buy it. Also, other than this cell and the newer NCR18650GA, there are few other quality cells offered as protected cells.


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## vicv (Dec 26, 2016)

True. I think it's because the lines between high capacity and high drain cells are shrinking so much that there's not as much need anymore for protected cells. The days of single lithium ion and 2x cr123 compatible lights are mostly over so the new lights have very good lvp built in and high cap cells are much less likely to vent with flame than the old chemistry. Not trying to start a protected vs non here that's been hashed out elsewhere
To the op: if you really need protected cells try to find the 3500mah ones from a reputable company. Most likely it will be the GA cell. Not that the difference of 3400 to 3500 is much a difference in capacity but the quality of the cell is much better. Just look at hjk's site with his comparator and look at the 3400mah Panasonic ncrB against just about any other 3000mah+ cell and look at where the voltage is at any point in the graph. The difference will be significant. It means a DD light will be brighter and a regulated light will stay in regulation much longer on high(not necessarily step down turbo modes).


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## stephenk (Dec 26, 2016)

I would assume that a protected wrapping of high drain cell such a 30Q or VTC6 would require a relatively large protection circuit due to the increased current requirements (e.g. 4 or 5 MOSFETs). This may result in length fit issues.


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## vicv (Dec 26, 2016)

A high drain cell with a protection circuit doesn't need to provide 10+A under load. You could put a 5A PCB on it. You would still see all the other benefits of a safer chem cell with lower internal resistance


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## Collins (Dec 26, 2016)

vicv said:


> True. I think it's because the lines between high capacity and high drain cells are shrinking so much that there's not as much need anymore for protected cells. The days of single lithium ion and 2x cr123 compatible lights are mostly over so the new lights have very good lvp built in and high cap cells are much less likely to vent with flame than the old chemistry. Not trying to start a protected vs non here that's been hashed out elsewhere
> To the op: if you really need protected cells try to find the 3500mah ones from a reputable company. Most likely it will be the GA cell. Not that the difference of 3400 to 3500 is much a difference in capacity but the quality of the cell is much better. Just look at hjk's site with his comparator and look at the 3400mah Panasonic ncrB against just about any other 3000mah+ cell and look at where the voltage is at any point in the graph. The difference will be significant. It means a DD light will be brighter and a regulated light will stay in regulation much longer on high(not necessarily step down turbo modes).



I'm sticking with protected cells just to be extra safe. Much rather have the extra safety features even if the non-safety version might perform a little better or something. Just not worth the risk to me with regards to fires.

I had read that there was something special about the 3500 compared to others. I've also seen there is a 3600 that seems to be on backordered. But I'm guessing that 3600 is the same thing as say a 3400. And that the 3500 is a unique cell.


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## StorminMatt (Dec 27, 2016)

vicv said:


> Just look at hjk's site with his comparator and look at the 3400mah Panasonic ncrB against just about any other 3000mah+ cell and look at where the voltage is at any point in the graph. The difference will be significant. It means a DD light will be brighter and a regulated light will stay in regulation much longer on high(not necessarily step down turbo modes).



And when it comes to REAL capacity, 3000mAH high drain cells actually give up very little compared to, say, the NCR18650B (or even the NCR18650GA). The Sony VTC6, for instance, only falls about 100mAH short of the NCR18650B, while providing MUCH higher voltage every step of the way. The NCR18650GA fares somewhat better, but still falls short in capacity compared to its rating when stacked up against cells like the VTC6.


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## stephenk (Dec 27, 2016)

Collins said:


> I'm sticking with protected cells just to be extra safe. Much rather have the extra safety features even if the non-safety version might perform a little better or something. Just not worth the risk to me with regards to fires.
> 
> I had read that there was something special about the 3500 compared to others. I've also seen there is a 3600 that seems to be on backordered. But I'm guessing that 3600 is the same thing as say a 3400. And that the 3500 is a unique cell.


The 3500mAh protected cells are usually wrapped Sanyo/Panasonic NCR18650GA cells, which is the best performing high capacity cell. 
Recommended brands (depending on which country you reside) include Orbtronic, Keeppower, Evva, and Blazar which have protection circuits that allow at least 8A under load. 



vicv said:


> A high drain cell with a protection circuit doesn't need to provide 10+A under load. You could put a 5A PCB on it. You would still see all the other benefits of a safer chem cell with lower internal resistance


Theoretically a protected 30Q could have a higher current cut off then a protected GA (e.g. 15A instead of 10A) as long as the PCB has additional MOSFETs. This would allow protected cells for lights (or e-cigs) that can pull more Amps (e.g. with FET driver).


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## Collins (Dec 28, 2016)

This is what I've been looking at. The Orbtronic 18650 protected 3500:

http://www.orbtronic.com/18650-protected-battery-3500mah-lithium-ion

Not really sure the difference between that and the 3400 and others. As I know that is different than a typical 18650.


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## vicv (Dec 28, 2016)

It's no different. Just a newer cell. They get better as time progresses. Looks like a good choice. It's either a sanyo GA or an LG mj1. They're basically interchangeable and the best non high drain cell out there


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## StorminMatt (Dec 28, 2016)

vicv said:


> It's no different. Just a newer cell. They get better as time progresses. Looks like a good choice. It's either a sanyo GA or an LG mj1. They're basically interchangeable and the best non high drain cell out there



I wouldn't say that. Not only do the newer cells have a little more capacity, they also maintain their voltage MUCH better than the old 3400s. This means the light stays brighter longer, even if its performance is blunted somewhat by a protection circuit.


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## vicv (Dec 28, 2016)

That's exactly what I meant. It's a newer generation cell. So it's better. But it's not different any more than every 18650 is different from another one of a different manufacturer/line. The OP said it's different than a typical 18650. But there is no typical. They're all different. I agree with you this is a much better cell than the ncrB. Of course so is an alkaline AAA😀


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## Collins (Dec 29, 2016)

vicv said:


> That's exactly what I meant. It's a newer generation cell. So it's better. But it's not different any more than every 18650 is different from another one of a different manufacturer/line. The OP said it's different than a typical 18650. But there is no typical. They're all different. I agree with you this is a much better cell than the ncrB. Of course so is an alkaline AAA



I was comparing the "new" 3500 10A 18650 with the 3400 that is commonly used. Was keeping an eye out for the 3600, but that never got back in stock. I'm guessing the 3600 is similar to the 3400.

My understanding is the new 3500 has a safer chemistry and the commonly used 3400 type 18650.


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## vicv (Dec 29, 2016)

Not really. It's basically the same chemistry with a few tweaks. I don't know about the 3600mah cell


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## brightex (Dec 29, 2016)

It has been discussed on whether you really need a protected lithium battery, before discussing this let me point out that lithium batteries as has recently happened with the Galaxy Note 7 phones, can explode or self ignite. For this reason having a protected battery preventing the battery from reverse changing is a very important safety feature, though it does make the battery more expensive.

Now if you have a charger that is also reverse polarity protected than even if you have a non protected battery it will not be damaged if placed the wrong way in the charger.

Unfortunately there are many low grade batteries and substandard charges sold on the market or supplied with flashlights, so you have to be very careful about the battery that you use and the charger you are using.

Our recommendation is to only buy quality protected batteries making sure that the rated capacity (mAh) is the real capacity (In many cases the rated capacity is much higher than the actual capacity). It can be easily verified when testing the battery as per the below picture.



Also make sure you have a quality charger that is UL certified (confirming to the US Safety Standards) there are many dangerous cheap chargers, do yourself a favor and avoid them. Check for the UL marking on your charger. Also verify the charging current is at least 1000mA unless you want to wait for hours until your battery is charged! (See below picture)



Here is an article with some additional information on the subject
Good Luck


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## StorminMatt (Dec 29, 2016)

Collins said:


> Was keeping an eye out for the 3600, but that never got back in stock. I'm guessing the 3600 is similar to the 3400.



I wouldn't worry too much about finding the 3600. The 3600mAH cell is the Panasonic NCR18650G. Somehow, this cell never became common. All kinds if theories exist as to why this is. But the reality is that it was never a whole lot better than the 3400. All of the new 3500s actually match or exceed the capacity of this cell at current draws below what most flashlights draw.


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## SilverFox (Dec 29, 2016)

Hello Brightex,

Welcome to CPF.

Keep in mind that the Galaxy phones were equipped with a protection circuit and carried the CE label which is similar to the UL label.

Samsung tried to push the limits and provide a battery with higher capacity in a smaller size and a phone that was ultra thin. This combination was unable to withstand every day use and the battery ended up getting damaged. The recall is the result of an engineering and design error.

You can simulate this by taking an 18650 protected cell and beat on the side of it with a hammer. Eventually the separator will fail and the cell will "rapidly vent, sometimes with flame" or explode...

If your light or application has protection built in bare cells are OK. When your light or application has no protection built in, then protected cells have a place. The biggest problem is that the protection circuit is one more thing that can fail so in critical applications it still may be better to go with bare cells. However, if you abuse the cell you need to understand that you simply recycle it and replace it with a new cell. If you don't have this discipline, only use protected cells and carry a back up in case you drop your light and damage the protection circuit.

Tom


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## lumen aeternum (Dec 31, 2016)

vicv said:


> True. I think it's because the lines between high capacity and high drain cells are shrinking so much that there's not as much need anymore for protected cells. The days of single lithium ion and 2x cr123 compatible lights are mostly over so the new lights have very good lvp built in and high cap cells are much less likely to vent with flame than the old chemistry. Not trying to start a protected vs non here that's been hashed out elsewhere
> To the op: if you really need protected cells try to find the 3500mah ones from a reputable company. Most likely it will be the GA cell. Not that the difference of 3400 to 3500 is much a difference in capacity but the quality of the cell is much better. Just look at hjk's site with his comparator and look at the 3400mah Panasonic ncrB against just about any other 3000mah+ cell and look at where the voltage is at any point in the graph. The difference will be significant. It means a DD light will be brighter and a regulated light will stay in regulation much longer on high(not necessarily step down turbo modes).



why do you think that dual-battery type lights are done for? Because people will opt for mega-lumens requiring a high cap&drain lithium?
Is GA a chemistry or a manufacturer?
URL for hjk site?

Are "high drain" cells only useful for modded lights, or are there moderately priced, out of the box lights that can utilize them?


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## vicv (Dec 31, 2016)

It's for no reason except they're not offered much anymore. And when they are they have low voltage protection so you don't get full use of primaries. 
Sanyo 18650ncrga is a cell from sanyo
High drain cells are useful for all lights. They give better voltage under load so even on a high mode of 2 or 3 amps you'll stay in regulation longer. They're also a more robust chemistry. Can handle deeper accidental discharges without as much damage


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## seery (Jan 1, 2017)

lumen aeternum said:


> Is GA a chemistry or a manufacturer?
> URL for hjk site?



As vicv noted, GA is how we reference the awesome Sanyo NCR18650GA cell. 

Here is HKJ's review of the GA:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...w-of-Sanyo-Panasonic-NCR18650GA-3500mAh-(Red)


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## lumen aeternum (Jan 1, 2017)

vicv said:


> It's for no reason except they're not offered much anymore.



Huh? Show me a 1x 18650 that _doesn't_ also use 2x cr123.

> And when they are they have low voltage protection so you don't get full use of primaries
>

But if you don't have protection in the light, then you need to use protected batteries, right? I would presume that the battery circuit on a high-drain battery is designed to allow it to put out high amps.


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## vicv (Jan 1, 2017)

Just about every 7135 driver based light. So almost all p60 drop ins. Every light that uses a fet driver like the blf lights from banggood. All of vinh's lights. Just because 2x cr123 physically fit doesn't mean they're ok to use. Any 1000+ lumen light is very hard on 2x cr123 so shouldn't be used
You don't need to use protected cells. Just keep an eye on it
All quality protected 18650 can be used in ~1000 lumen lights. That's only a ~3A load but high drain would give better regulated runtime


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## chaosdsm (Jan 1, 2017)

My favorite is the Orbtronic 3500mAh dual-protection 10A high-drain cell. Panasonic/Sanyo cell inside with Seiko designed protection circuit, but a bit pricey, and at 68.9mm long, could be a tight fit.


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## lumen aeternum (Jan 1, 2017)

>So almost all p60 drop ins.

So when you put a drop in into your Surefire, it no longer works with 2 x c123?


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## vicv (Jan 1, 2017)

Not the ones that are meant for 2.7/8-4.5v. Some have buck drivers like malkoff m61 which can


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## StandardBattery (Jan 4, 2017)

lumen aeternum said:


> >So almost all p60 drop ins.
> 
> So when you put a drop in into your Surefire, it no longer works with 2 x c123?



Depends on the drop-in.


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## Collins (Jan 10, 2017)

chaosdsm said:


> My favorite is the Orbtronic 3500mAh dual-protection 10A high-drain cell. Panasonic/Sanyo cell inside with Seiko designed protection circuit, but a bit pricey, and at 68.9mm long, could be a tight fit.



This is what I went with.


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## lollem (Jan 10, 2017)

What should i get for my headlamp? It uses 2x18650 batteries, bought the headlamp with 2x18650 ultrafire batteries and crappy wall charger that plugs into the flashlight to charge the batteries overnight. The batteries don't last, they work 2-3hrs really bright then you would suffer with very dim led cuz of the low battery. Was going to get this "Samsung INR18650-25R 2500mAh Unprotected Button Top" for 5.85$ ea, or "LG ICR18650HE4 - Button Top - Hi Drain 18650 - 2500mAh. for 5.90$ ea. Trying to get best bang for my buck for my batteries while getting good quality batteries, and not knockoffs from amazon or ebay.


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## Lexel (Jan 10, 2017)

Its quite simple use the cells the light is build for
there are lights that take only 2.8-4.2V using em with 2 cells will most likely damage driver or LED

other lights have a linear driver for voltages up to 4V and at higher voltages use a buck converter, more expensive lights


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## lollem (Jan 12, 2017)

Not sure how much volts the led driver can handle, as I bought my headlamp off ebay. Headlamp+2xultrafire batteries+cheap wall charger for like 10-14$. It gives out pretty good light, but if you're saying some headlamps can only take certain voltage, or they die, makes me think if I should waste 20$ on pair of good batteries. One of my similar headlamps led went half bright and won't shine full bright anymore lol, maybe something happen with the driver. Anyway I could check? Last time i took my battery holder, the driver is below the battery compartment bringing leads to negative and positive sides. Thanks. My looks like this "http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~iQAAOSwB09YJkWB/s-l500.jpg" They also state that they use "*T6 LED Cree XM-L**"** for their headlamps.

Edit: Took apart one of my flashlights, this is the board on the inside "http://imgur.com/a/xwyQM"*


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## coffeecup66 (Jan 12, 2017)

chaosdsm said:


> My favorite is the Orbtronic 3500mAh dual-protection 10A high-drain cell. Panasonic/Sanyo cell inside with Seiko designed protection circuit, but a bit pricey, and at 68.9mm long, could be a tight fit.



It's good to see someone read the OP's question...

Cheers Collins, and glad you found a good battery. :tinfoil:


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## totobel (Sep 21, 2017)

So in this topic I learned that the best 18650 battery today is the unprotected NCR18650GA : https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-battery-3500mah-li-ion-high-drain-panasonic-sanyo

I also learned that one of the preferred protected NCR18650GA is the Orbtronic : https://www.orbtronic.com/18650-protected-battery-3500mah-lithium-ion

As you see, the price difference is around +85% "just" for the protective circuit. Is that usual ?
Any better options out there ? Thanks
(Especially that I want to buy from Europe, Orbtronic isn't maybe the best option regarding shipping costs)

EDIT : any idea if the nitecore 3500mah NL1835HP is worth it ?


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## terjee (Sep 21, 2017)

Keeppower 3500mAh at NKON.


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## ven (Sep 22, 2017)

As above, KP offer good value and are decent to boot!


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## hemdale (Apr 8, 2018)

ven said:


> As above, KP offer good value and are decent to boot!




Hi guys ! Just saw this topic and wondered if anyone had a good feedback / experience with KeepPower ?

https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/keeppower-18650-3500-li-ion.html


Thanks a lot !


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Apr 8, 2018)

hemdale said:


> Hi guys ! Just saw this topic and wondered if anyone had a good feedback / experience with KeepPower ?



I'm generally not a fan of protected batteries, but I have some Keeppower cells and they're fine. I'd recommend them, if you want protected cells.


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## StandardBattery (Apr 8, 2018)

hemdale said:


> Hi guys ! Just saw this topic and wondered if anyone had a good feedback / experience with KeepPower ?
> 
> https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/keeppower-18650-3500-li-ion.html
> 
> ...


If you look around you will see lots of information on them as well as independent tests. They are one of the few to consider if you need button top protected 18650. If the specs meet or exceed your requirement then go ahead and buy them.


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