# 4000 lumens light



## iapyx (Feb 4, 2007)

Yesterday I was checking one of my favorite websites and came across this incredible flashlight. It´s very expensive. However I think I´ve spent an even amount of money in total on buying several flashlights and parts.

here´s the link:

:bow: http://www.knivesandtools.com/en/ct/polarion-hid-lampen.htm


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## BBL (Feb 4, 2007)

You might want to check out the hid-forum, there was some talk about this light already


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## bridgman (Feb 4, 2007)

Geez, I'd seen beamshots of the Helios and was amazed. I guess for $2500 US I *should* be amazed 

Is this the same Helios which shows up in the HID comparisons (and stomps everything except the Torch) ?


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## NAW (Feb 4, 2007)

bridgman said:


> Geez, I'd seen beamshots of the Helios and was amazed. I guess for $2500 US I *should* be amazed
> 
> Is this the same Helios which shows up in the HID comparisons (and stomps everything except the Torch) ?


 
The Helios isn't the brightest HID light made but it can stomp over MAC's Torch.


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/140922


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 4, 2007)

Also, check out the shootouts listed in this link. Brightest portable commercial HID is the XeRay BarnBurner, with it's 50W younger brother the second brightest...but many variables affect any final assessment.


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## NAW (Feb 4, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Also, check out the shootouts listed in this link. Brightest portable commercial HID is the XeRay BarnBurner, with it's 50W younger brother the second brightest...but many variables affect any final assessment.


 
I thought the brightest portable HID was the HarborFreight HID... if the BB can outthow the HF that would be impressive.


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## paulr (Feb 4, 2007)

The Harborfreight is a 35 watt HID with around 3200 lumens like similar units, I think. It has more throw than the others because of its very large reflector, but it's not brighter in the sense of having more total output.


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## Xzn (Feb 5, 2007)

NAW said:


> I thought the brightest portable HID was the HarborFreight HID... if the BB can outthow the HF that would be impressive.


The harbor freight has a 35 watt HID lamp that produces 3000 bulb lumens (3000 because it's 6000K, 3200 lumens at 4200K). The BarnBurner uses a 75 watt HID lamp and produces 8500 lumens.


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## NAW (Feb 5, 2007)

Thanks for the answers guy... but what I meant in my original post was that if the BarnBurner could throw farther than the HF HID then that would be impressive as I don't know of any production HID light that can throw farther than the HF. 

Remember the brightest light doesn't always mean the light with the most lumens


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## XeRay (Feb 6, 2007)

NAW said:


> Thanks for the answers guy... but what I meant in my original post was that if the BarnBurner could throw farther than the HF HID then that would be impressive as I don't know of any production HID light that can throw farther than the HF.


 
I dont believe the HF can out throw the BB with the focus properly adjusted. You'll have to prove that to me.


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## Lips (Feb 6, 2007)

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I haven't tried it yet but from my test with the 50w Xeray I believe the Barn Burner would out-throw the HF Hid. That is impressive...  

Much more to see with the BB as it gives a large swoth of light to at closer ranges too...


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## 65535 (Feb 6, 2007)

The helios is in a nicer package and waterproof but its 3 times teh cost and has that cutout (or are there options) that make it D shaped.


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## Lips (Feb 6, 2007)

There's a mint used Helios and X1 for sale here for around $1500...


Nice shots Mac took
















The BarnBurner would be at least a step above all of those in brightness...


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## Ken J. Good (Feb 6, 2007)

Does every HID thread need to degenerate into, Mine is brighter than yours?

I also have noted, almost anytime someone asks about a particular light and all the disciples of Brand X,Y,and Z are quick to champion their personal favorite often convoluting the orginal post beyond recongnition. 

How productive is this anyway? Maybe I am just need to get to bed....

"Brighter" is not a very accurate term for what is actually going on. There is a quite few aspects to the beam signature to say the least. 

Additionally the total lighting package/system is more than "How Bright is it?" There is very little attention paid to, size, portability, waterproofness, durability, ergonomics, quality of materials, repair, customer service, etc in some of these threads when comparing A to B to C.

My observations anyway.


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## Lips (Feb 6, 2007)

Ken J. Good said:


> I also have noted, almost anytime someone asks about a particular light and all the disciples of Brand X,Y,and Z are quick to champion their personal favorite often convoluting the orginal post beyond recongnition.





Ken your disciples are around too, but I don't see anyone championing any light in this thread... I see two shots containing the Helios vs...  


How about another group buy on the Helios, I want one bad! :thumbsup: 


.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 6, 2007)

Ken, I agree that happens in many of these threads...but it is spurred on when someone makes a false or incomplete statement about a particular light, or fails to include a host of other worthwhile lights in a sweeping statement. 

In this case Bridgman's Post #3 saying that the "Helios stomps everything except the Torch" is not the least bit accurate, even as related to the Torch. Many of us do not like to see such misleading statements hang out like that, so we speak up.

I also find it curious that there have been many people posting about the Polarion lights with less than 20-50 posts on CPF's....some as few as 2-5 posts....and that is the ONLY brand of light they come here to promote. It seemed strange with the first few, now IMHO, it appears to be a curious pattern.

I think we have all come to know the many strengths, weaknesses, and cost of the major headliner series of "super lights," so I'm sure that someone looking for the Polarion lineup has heard about it, and knows where to get it.


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## Ken J. Good (Feb 6, 2007)

My point is already made and I see yours as well.

Not here to "Champion" the Polarion line to exclusion of all else. There are many excellent options out there each with their strengths and weaknesses. Let the customer choose based on accurate statements from owners and manufacturers alike. This would be in juxtaposition to over-zealous rhetoric and marketing-hype.

Then again, I am an idealist and I realize that will not always happen.

I enjoy Candlepower as a great source to get the word for subject matter experts as well as getting the word out to this group and beyond as appropriate.

I will personally endeavor to state the facts and focus on the merits of the products we are working with as opposed to an attempt to pull somebody else’s efforts down.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 6, 2007)

Soon BVH and I will be getting together and measuring light output of all of the different lights we have in my custom made and modified for big lights light box.
I still have to finish the mod to it.

Then we all will have relative numbers for light output of a good number of the lights available. The beauty of the box is that new lights can be tested as BVH and I get them.

Regarding XeRay's post above, post #10.

The key there is which Costco/Harbor Freight.
Some have better focus then others, one of mine is exceptionally well focused and
it will equal or slightly outhrow a BB. However, the focus is so tight that the section of beam that is brighter then a barn burner, using Mr Ted Bear's tree location as an example, is only about 3 feet in diameter in the center of the canopy of the tree at 150 yards. The corona itself barely gets around the tree. The Barn Burner lights the whole canyon.
A regular focused Costco Harbor Freight would not equal a Barn Burner and yes there is that much difference from light to light with the Costco/Harbor Freight's.
The Costco/Harbor Freights are definitely better point in the sky and look at the pin point blue beam lights for wow factor when showing friends or signaling aliens. This is one area the 6000K bulbs are real nice .
However if you want to light a canyon the Barn Burner is a WONDERFUL light. Of course it is also pretty much made out of "unobtanium" if you do not already own a XeRay  and are not going to be part of the one time upgrade.

Regarding the XeRay 50 watt, Helios, and X1, it really comes down to secondary features since the overall light output is so similar.

Beam adjustablility verses compact size.
Do you like the fixed beam pattern of the Helios & X1?
If yes great, if not look- elswhere for your light.
Budget is certainly a BIG issue.
How nesessary is the light being water proof to you.
How tough does the body need to be, etc..

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 6, 2007)

*Ken*: Very well said. You not only deserve everyone's respect not only for your outrageous and high risk military service, but you have always kept your posting above the fray in all these spotlight "debates." That is quite remarkable and a model for everyone to follow.

*mtbkndad*: That was a really great (almost perfect) post, IMHO. I'm surprised that the Cosco/HF HIDs have that much variability from unit to unit, but I believe your experience with them. That sounds great about the light box testing. I have fun with my Meterman 631, but it so hard to get objective results as you know.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 6, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> *Ken*: Very well said. You not only deserve everyone's respect not only for your outrageous and high risk military service, but you have always kept your posting above the fray in all these spotlight "debates." That is quite remarkable and a model for everyone to follow.
> 
> *mtbkndad*: That was a really great (almost perfect) post, IMHO. I'm surprised that the Cosco/HF HIDs have that much variability from unit to unit, but I believe your experience with them. That sounds great about the light box testing. I have fun with my Meterman 631, but it so hard to get objective results as you know.




Thank you for the compliment.
I have a Sper Scientific 840020 and am looking forward to testing these lights. 
I was also rather shocked at the difference between the different Costco lights when I was buying them for different CPF members.
It was a CPF member I sent 4 to that first noticed the difference.
I did not personally do any "selecting" when purchasing the lights, until I got the last one  . When I turned it on I new I was never going to post that I had one more available  .

To give an idea of just how much difference there is between my two Costco HID's
In my Amondotech Illuminator announcement thread I posted lux readings at 37.5 feet.
Costco HID good focus
7590
Costco HID okay focus
5690

My shop is about 40 feet long and when BVH and I get together we will do lux readings too.
For people that are not real familiar with these lights I think the combined readings will help quantify the differences of lights like the XeRay, Helios, X1, etc. BVH also has his LarryK. and I have numerous others we will be testing.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## bridgman (Feb 8, 2007)

>>In this case Bridgman's Post #3 saying that the "Helios stomps everything except the Torch" is not the least bit accurate, even as related to the Torch. Many of us do not like to see such misleading statements hang out like that, so we speak up.

Sorry about that. I was going from memory, and my recollection from the pictures *was* that the Helios and the Torch *seemed* to put out the most overall light (ie lumens not cp). 

Throw is a completely different issue, of course, but in my defence the thread had not started to discuss relative throw when I posted (and heck, I was "Unenlightened" when I posted anyways ). Sorry if I caused any grief.

As penance, I will re-read the shootouts even if the images *do* take forever to download on my pitifully slow dial-up connection (I live too far away from the city for cable or DSL, in a dense forest which kinda precludes satellite).


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## NAW (Feb 8, 2007)

Its cool man.  

No ones going to think any less of you. :naughty:


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## WhiteHot (Feb 9, 2007)

Ken J. Good said:


> Does every HID thread need to degenerate into, Mine is brighter than yours?.



Yes. Do you think that the majority of the people that are buying these lights are doing so because they actually need them


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## Ken J. Good (Feb 9, 2007)

WhiteHot said:


> Yes. Do you think that the majority of the people that are buying these lights are doing so because they actually need them



What was I thinking!


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 9, 2007)

Bridgman, don't sweat it friend! 

If you haven't noticed by now, some of us go off the deep end pointing out minor practical differences between many of these lights as mtbkndad has said on several occasions. 

It reminds me of the various computer overclocking forums where people go to ridiculous extremes to get the highest artificial benchmark score, which has no real application towards useful everyday computing. One guy on Hard OCP's forum actually poured liquid Nitrogen over his CPU while testing to get a higher OC'ing score. I think it was somewhere in this 223 page thread.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 10, 2007)

Ken J. Good said:


> Then again, I am an idealist and I realize that will not always happen.
> 
> I will personally endeavor to state the facts and focus on the merits of the products we are working with as opposed to an attempt to pull somebody else’s efforts down.



Ken, I was watching some of the Seal DVD's (including the Buds 234 series & the National Geographic: Inside the Navy Seals) and noticed your actual review of these on Amazon that fortunately I did not buy. Pretty amazing to see your consistent forthrightness there and here! Again, I salute all the special forces.


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## Lips (Feb 11, 2007)

.


Service/Sacrifice to their country  




:bow: 




Enough Said! - :thumbsup:​

.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 11, 2007)

Lips said:


> .
> 
> 
> Service/Sacrafice to there country
> ...



Except it's spelled "Sacrifice" & "their" LOL! 

But yeah, this country owes everyone in the Special Forces (& the military in general) more than words could ever begin to express. It would be interesting to see which of the DVD's that have come out on the Seals &/or other Special Forces that Ken feels is worth watching.

I just can't imagine how they let some dumbass movie crew follow around a group as "sacred in their honor" as Navy Seals during their initial training. I'm glad I got some of these glimpses into how special those that make it through really are...but it also seems disgusting to imagine some candy *** film crew hawking over such overwhelming training phases.


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## Lips (Feb 12, 2007)

.



Whatya talking about Lux 

I spilled it rite







.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 12, 2007)

:buddies::twothumbs


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 1, 2007)

mtbkndad said:


> Soon BVH and I will be getting together and measuring light output of all of the different lights we have in my custom made and modified for big lights light box.
> I still have to finish the mod to it.
> 
> Then we all will have relative numbers for light output of a good number of the lights available. The beauty of the box is that new lights can be tested as BVH and I get them.


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## mtbkndad (Mar 2, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


>




The box has been sufficiently modified now.
BVH and I got together tonight, but did not have time to use the Box.
We will get to this as soon as possible.

Added section-
I had a chance to measure my Spotlights today with my light box.
I also took readings of Mr Ted Bear's Polarion P1 and X990.
I also have lux readings at 37.5 feet. I was doing this for the announcement thread. I when BVH and I get together again we will measure his lights with the Box and do lux readings at 37.5 feet with them too.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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