# Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* light?



## grndslm (Aug 12, 2015)

This might seem crazy, but in my day to day life, I don't see a major benefit of a flashlight over 100 to 200 lumens. At least not in the Cool White color.

I recently bought a Thrunite Ti4 and Pelican 1910B. Used the Thrunite Ti4 first, but the low mode was too low and the high mode seemed too high (only 252 Lumens), washing out most text in the hotspot for example and making it difficult to actually read. I could make due with it, but the medium mode which is supposedly only 24 Lumens would do everything I need.

Obviously, each person's needs are different.... but after using the Pelican 1910B, I really have no desire for anything over 72 Lumens as an EDC light (until I can get find a compact, tactical light that throws 500 meters ). Something I found odd is that due to the beam profile between these two lights, the Pelican's low mode (14 Lumens) appears brighter to me than the Thrunite's medium mode (24 Lumens) within ~4 feet or so. Past that, the Thrunite's spill is definitely brighter.... but the Pelican's hotspot is still brighter.

There's just definitely something to the 1 or 2 mode lights. But I've never been a "one choice" kinda guy. I'm happy with a high and low option, and definitely happy with the spacing of this 1910B light. It just does everything I want and I really have no desire to have more light in an EDC. Surely there are others who like their Microstreams and such.

But as I started this thread off, I think I'm only reaching this conclusion due to the Cool White color. I'd imagine that if the Thrunite had a Neutral White [or even warmer], I might not believe I could get enough light. So I guess my only desire from here on is to get the right color tint. :candle:


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## scout24 (Aug 12, 2015)

As long as there are sufficient lower levels accessible, and that high is not at the expense of runtime, I don't believe there is too much of a good thing. Zebralight sc62w. I can creep around my house in my choice of sub lumen levels, walk my dog with your chosen magic number of lumens, and never access the 900+ lumen stadium lighting available up top. All in a stupid small, easy to carry and use package. Or I can whack High level, and have decent PID controlled runtime from the 18650 cell that runs it.


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## WarRaven (Aug 12, 2015)

Love the Pelican 1910 an 1920 Gen2s, two great little lights that put light exactly where you aim it.
Just a bit long, is their biggest downfall IMO.


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## Kestrel (Aug 12, 2015)

AW IMR 18650 2200's are rated for 20 amps continuous discharge, so I'd like an EDC to do that please - scaling present-day lumens/watt, what should that output be? 

Edit: ~20,000 lumens is my back-of-the-envelope calculation, give or take. I could probably live with 15,000 lumens after everything involved was engineered. Getting there should be only a matter of time, really. :huh:


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## FRITZHID (Aug 12, 2015)

"Too much light"?? I know the words but that sentence makes no sense to me what so ever.
That being said, I don't believe a light can be too bright, as long as there are sufficient lower levels to work with.... Preferably combined with variable focus.
My modded Coast PS 600 will toss +1.4 kilolumens on high but only 0.5 lumen on moonlight mode, with 120lm and 600lm in between. Flood and spot mode make those 4 modes even more useful.
It's all a matter of preference of course but just like a gun or condom, I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.


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## Kestrel (Aug 12, 2015)

Daryle Singletary - Too Much Fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6gI7Ts14Qw


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## Poppy (Aug 12, 2015)

Kestrel said:


> AW IMR 18650 2200's are rated for 20 amps continuous discharge, so I'd like an EDC to do that please - scaling present-day lumens/watt, what should that output be?
> 
> Edit: ~20,000 lumens is my back-of-the-envelope calculation, give or take. I could probably live with 15,000 lumens after everything involved was engineered. Getting there should be only a matter of time, really. :huh:


Yahoo!!! 6 minutes run-time!!! 

lol... my EDC puts out about 5 and 60 lumens. So, grandslm, I don't carry a 900 lumen EDC. For me, those lights are too large to EDC, I prefer small. OTOH, I do have lights that are more powerful than what I usually need so they rarely get used. Generally speaking one of my favorite lights is a Convoy S2+ driven at 1400ma. Its in the 350-450 lumen output on high, and a very useable 40 lumen or so on low. It's not over-driven, and gets decent run-times even on high. For MY uses, a large spot that is somewhat diffuse into the spill, is the beam profile that I typically want in an EDC. Certainly if I lived on a ranch and needed to reach out to things farther away on a regular basis, my beam preference might well be different. There is no right or wrong.


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## swan (Aug 12, 2015)

Not possible.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 12, 2015)

Nope. The E25 makes an exceptional EDC light with 260 lumen burst.


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## RWT1405 (Aug 12, 2015)

Yes, I would do fine with an EDC that did 5, 25, and 125 lms. And, if truth be told, could do 90% of what I need in an EDC with 5 and 25 lms.


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## Nicrod (Aug 12, 2015)

My EDC Must have sufficient low level modes. Most of my needs can be handled with 
1 lumen 5 lumen and 25-40 lumens. But I want to be able, with the same light, have access 
to 300+ lumens IF I need.


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## grndslm (Aug 12, 2015)

I mean... even tho I have a Nitecore MH10 that puts out 1000 Lumens, I just NEVER actually use it other than when comparing. I think switching between modes is the real issue.

Perhaps something like a Sunwayman V11R with Nichia bulb is really what I need.


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## WarRaven (Aug 12, 2015)

I'd never drive my Veyron with the valet key,
I can regulate as desired.

Alright, even if I can't, and with lights, I know there's limits to be respected most of the time.


Edit, no, I do not have one.


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## Search (Aug 12, 2015)

I used to think so.. now nope. I thought 200 was too much for a pistol light once until I put 500 on one. More lumens please.




WarRaven said:


> I'd never drive my Veyron with the valet key




Uhhh I'll drive your Veyron with anyone's key to be honest


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## smokinbasser (Aug 12, 2015)

IMO unless the light has a recoil upon turning it on it cannot be too strong for my use.


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## FRITZHID (Aug 12, 2015)

smokinbasser said:


> IMO unless the light has a recoil upon turning it on it cannot be too strong for my use.



Ha!
....on that note, I actually have a light that does recoil.


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## xzel87 (Aug 12, 2015)

It's only an issue when there is no low modes and no way of telling which mode it's on (with memory) if you don't remember it when you turn it off. I got annoyed, still get annoyed actually when it happens, and it will definitely happen, is when I need to look for something in the glovebox, i take out my EDC and instead of 0.5 lumen BAM! 200 Lumens, coincidentally on a piece of white paper too, resulting in loss of vision and dark spot for a few seconds, and I still didn't get what I was looking for.


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## FRITZHID (Aug 13, 2015)

xzel87 said:


> It's only an issue when there is no low modes and no way of telling which mode it's on (with memory) if you don't remember it when you turn it off. I got annoyed, still get annoyed actually when it happens, and it will definitely happen, is when I need to look for something in the glovebox, i take out my EDC and instead of 0.5 lumen BAM! 200 Lumens, coincidentally on a piece of white paper too, resulting in loss of vision and dark spot for a few seconds, and I still didn't get what I was looking for.



Hear hear! +1


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## WarRaven (Aug 13, 2015)

Can no one palm check?
If your not sure, why not?


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## magellan (Aug 13, 2015)

In a word, no. Until a small flashlight can equal our sun at mid day I'm happy to await that technology.


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## FRITZHID (Aug 13, 2015)

magellan said:


> In a word, no. Until a small flashlight can equal our sun at mid day I'm happy to await that technology.



Hi! Will you be my friend? Lmao


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## xzel87 (Aug 13, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Can no one palm check?
> If your not sure, why not?



Just plain forgot I guess and was in a rush...I usually press it against my body to check.

That's why I suppose a UI than can access ML from off and boom!-mid-day-sunbeam-from-a-pipe from off is a UI that is so much win for everyday EDC.


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## WarRaven (Aug 13, 2015)

I hear you, just being the usual advocate.
It'd be nice if Fenix had a mode shake up, not just adding tactical.
But having some of the best electronics and limited ability to ramp up or down at will is getting old hat I agree.
They'll have to jump on bandwagon of options soon is my guess.
Still my preferred OEM.


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## magellan (Aug 13, 2015)

FRITZHID said:


> Hi! Will you be my friend? Lmao



LOL. Sure!


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## Hammerdown (Aug 13, 2015)

Never


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## markr6 (Aug 13, 2015)

scout24 said:


> As long as there are sufficient lower levels accessible, and that high is not at the expense of runtime, I don't believe there is too much of a good thing. Zebralight sc62w. I can creep around my house in my choice of sub lumen levels, walk my dog with your chosen magic number of lumens, and never access the 900+ lumen stadium lighting available up top. All in a stupid small, easy to carry and use package. Or I can whack High level, and have decent PID controlled runtime from the 18650 cell that runs it.



+1! Nothing to really add to this. If you can have it all in a small package, why not?


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## more_vampires (Aug 13, 2015)

magellan said:


> In a word, no. Until a small flashlight can equal our sun at mid day I'm happy to await that technology.


My Noctigon M43 xp-g2x12 is visible on the ground in full daylight, barely. It's because it's kinda floody. If all that light were tightly focused, it'd be a lot more obvious.

"Brighter than the sun!"


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 13, 2015)

magellan said:


> In a word, no. Until a small flashlight can equal our sun at mid day I'm happy to await that technology.



Yeah, 50000 lux at about 10 meters would be enough to fill in shade for almost all daytime purposes. And at night, it would throw further than air light-scattering would make practical.

We probably have close to that kind of light level with hand-held HID spotlights, now. Put that output into the size of a 1xAAA flashlight and I'm content.


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## more_vampires (Aug 13, 2015)

smokinbasser said:


> IMO unless the light has a recoil upon turning it on it cannot be too strong for my use.





FRITZHID said:


> Ha! ....on that note, I actually have a light that does recoil.


Okay, Fritz! Out with it! What light?



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yeah, 50000 lux at about 10 meters would be enough to fill in shade for almost all daytime purposes. And at night, it would throw further than air light-scattering would make practical.
> 
> We probably have close to that kind of light level with hand-held HID spotlights, now. Put that output into the size of a *Photon Freedom Micro* and I'm content until *something better comes out.*


Fixed that for you.


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## d88 (Aug 13, 2015)

I'm still relatively new to the world of flashlights, so when I got my hands on my Eagletac D25 Ti clicky last year, i thought it was the near perfect EDC light in terms of output/function. That was until I got my hands on the Nitecore EC11 and I've had to revise my opinion. More lumens is definitely better although I agree that function in terms of good low light options is just as important as output.

That hasn't put me off my D25 clicky, it's still a great little EDC light to carry around, it's just the EC11 is in a different league in terms of lumens output.


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## ElectronGuru (Aug 13, 2015)

Search said:


> I used to think so.. now nope. I thought 200 was too much for a pistol light once until I put 500 on one. More lumens please.



This one is currently undergoing field tests, configured to 2500:


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## bartko09 (Aug 13, 2015)

ElectronGuru said:


> This one is currently undergoing field tests, configured to 2500:



Holy smokes. Yeah, you're going to have to keep us posted on this project. I just bought a x300u to replace an older x300 which is prime for a modification. [emoji6]


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## GearHunter (Aug 13, 2015)

I find anything more then 200lm is just wasted on me. There is just nothing in my life that needs more so now I don't own anything but 200lm HDS lights. .03-200 does everything I need.


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## markr6 (Aug 13, 2015)

GearHunter said:


> .03-200 does everything I need.



except satisfy the need for MOAR LUMENS :rock:


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## GearHunter (Aug 13, 2015)

markr6 said:


> except satisfy the need for MOAR LUMENS :rock:



lol ok ok I understand. I was once afflicted with lackalumens but I seem to have gotten over it as I approached 50....now I trade lumens for tint and CRI . I'll leave the retina burners to younger folk!


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## Father Azmodius (Aug 13, 2015)

It all depends on what one's normal day entails. Mine could be anywhere from a manhole to an attic during daylight hours and searching for poles or pedestals after dark, so for me......can't have too much light, but I can have one not last long enough. I do tend to carry spare batteries and chargers


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## Search (Aug 13, 2015)

ElectronGuru said:


> This one is currently undergoing field tests, configured to 2500:



Mother of god..

I know it's overkill but I'm going to buy a host and will be sending it in for modification as soon as you are ready to accept my money


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## Father Azmodius (Aug 13, 2015)

ElectronGuru said:


> This one is currently undergoing field tests, configured to 2500:



I'd be happy to field (more like woods) test it for you.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 13, 2015)

GearHunter said:


> I find anything more then 200lm is just wasted on me. There is just nothing in my life that needs more so now I don't own anything but 200lm HDS lights. .03-200 does everything I need.



Indoors, I agree with you. 200 lumens satisfies 99% of my indoor usage. But outdoors, when I go from 200 lumens to 1000 lumens, it makes such a huge difference to what I can see, I'm glad I have the 1000 lumen option. Even if the light is already throwy and does okay on 200 lumens, when it puts out 5x the light it makes it so much more useful.

Those "pack of large creepy eyes in a field watching me" at 200 lumens, suddenly turns into "a comical grouping of cows looking my way" at 1000 lumens.


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## WarRaven (Aug 13, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Indoors, I agree with you. 200 lumens satisfies 99% of my indoor usage. But outdoors, when I go from 200 lumens to 1000 lumens, it makes such a huge difference to what I can see, I'm glad I have the 1000 lumen option. Even if the light is already throwy and does okay on 200 lumens, when it puts out 5x the light it makes it so much more useful.
> 
> Those "pack of large creepy eyes in a field watching me" at 200 lumens, suddenly turns into "a comical grouping of cows looking my way" at 1000 lumens.


Well said.
+1


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## magellan (Aug 13, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> My Noctigon M43 xp-g2x12 is visible on the ground in full daylight, barely. It's because it's kinda floody. If all that light were tightly focused, it'd be a lot more obvious.
> 
> "Brighter than the sun!"



:twothumbs :twothumbs :twothumbs

Ya know, I hadn't thought to test my new Tk75vn77 at 20,000 lumens but as it's more spill than throw it might not be that visible. If course, it's not exactly a small light.


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## uofaengr (Aug 13, 2015)

I think 200 is about the most I'd want indoors, but the sky is the limit for outdoors use. Most days I can get by easy carrying a max 85 or 120 lumen light usually not using more than 30 lumens, but if I'm going to be working nights and/or traveling, I'm going to have my SC62w. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.


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## more_vampires (Aug 13, 2015)

My Nitecore TubeVN does ~100lm on max, IIRC. Think the stock is ~20lm less. Wall of light, totally useful indoors. Wide flood.

Annoying PWM goes away on MAX mode, the mode I use the most on NC TubeVN. Press and hold for max.


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## hyperloop (Aug 13, 2015)

That's why I got myself the ArmyTek Prime (non-pro) A1, 1xAA flashlight, the 2 firefly modes are mainly what I use now, to check on my 2 year old without waking him up, changing diaper using firefly mode 1 and 2, but having the ability to boost it up to 200+ lumens (I think the 370 lumens is with a 14500) is great.


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## reppans (Aug 13, 2015)

*Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* l...*



hyperloop said:


> That's why I got myself the ArmyTek Prime (non-pro) A1, 1xAA flashlight, the 2 firefly modes are mainly what I use now, to check on my 2 year old without waking him up, changing diaper using firefly mode 1 and 2, but having the ability to boost it up to 200+ lumens (I think the 370 lumens is with a 14500) is great.



Their spec does claim 370 OTF on an Eneloop 2000... but your eye is more accurate. Most of their spec claims are pretty badly exaggerated (least by my sample ).


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 13, 2015)

*Re: Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* l...*



reppans said:


> Their spec does claim 370 OTF on an Eneloop 2000... but your eye is more accurate. Most of their spec claims are pretty badly exaggerated (least by my sample ).



You've mentioned that before, but I think you must have got a bad sample. On mine, I find their specs are pretty accurate for all the medium and high modes. Their firefly specs are overstated, but I actually prefer that because it puts both their firefly modes in the moonlight category. The Prime A2 maximum is somewhere between 450-500 lumens, by my estimate (light meter readings). The Prime A1 is less (maybe 300?), but still very good on an Eneloop. Haven't tried a 14500. I have the warm versions; the cool white versions should be even brighter.

Of the two, I prefer the 2xAA version over the 1xAA version. Better runtimes, and greater maximum if you need it. Not all that much bigger, either.


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## Vortus (Aug 13, 2015)

*Re: Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* l...*

Depends. In my pocket edc, or keyring edc, yes. Those lights having anything over 200 is wasted. Work edc, ie holster carry then no. More is better. Though, if a light cannot hold a level longer than 5 min then it doesn't have that level. Lights that go super bright for short periods are like dragsters, quick run, then back on the trailer to go home.


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## WarRaven (Aug 13, 2015)

GMC with NOS, it's just can you resist higher outputs more often then not?
You're not forced to juice on... Makes everything problematic afterwards.
Might be a need to up the budget greatly to get sustained nos ability in cars or lights then, or just control yourself and usage, so as usual, ymmv.

Edit, before it's gets dumb dumb, vehicle chosen is irrelevant right.


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## Father Azmodius (Aug 13, 2015)

Gotta pay to play. Manufacturers make calculated compromises, more hp, or amps means something else is going to break. It's a viscous cycle, but we do it to have the fastest or brightest


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## Kestrel (Aug 13, 2015)

Father Azmodius said:


> [...] It's a *viscous* cycle, but we do it to have the fastest or brightest


At least that mean it slows down, lol.


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## Father Azmodius (Aug 13, 2015)

It's a low viscosity cycle


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## Monocrom (Aug 13, 2015)

Honestly, unless it's going to cause permanent eye damage; there's no such thing as too much light.

(I might change my mind when we get to a single-AAA light pumping out 1,000 out the front lumens. Ask me again then.)


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## reppans (Aug 13, 2015)

*Re: Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* l...*



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> You've mentioned that before, but I think you must have got a bad sample. On mine, I find their specs are pretty accurate for all the medium and high modes. Their firefly specs are overstated, but I actually prefer that because it puts both their firefly modes in the moonlight category. The Prime A2 maximum is somewhere between 450-500 lumens, by my estimate (light meter readings). The Prime A1 is less (maybe 300?), but still very good on an Eneloop. Haven't tried a 14500. I have the warm versions; the cool white versions should be even brighter.
> 
> Of the two, I prefer the 2xAA version over the 1xAA version. Better runtimes, and greater maximum if you need it. Not all that much bigger, either.



We've compared lumen estimates on various lights before, my scale maybe a bit lower (calibration based on 47s, HDS, and ti-force) but we've usually been in a similar ballpark.... and certainly lower than Selfbuilt. FWIW, in my lightbox at get the following on 1NiMh (mines a WW, specs are CW, my est./AT spec, 2000mah Eneloop):

0.02/0.15 lms
0.42/1.7
6/10
42/70
120/210
250/370 (Beats my CW SC52) 

Don't know if you've had a chance to check your current draws yet, but these are the hours I estimate on the lowest 3 modes... which is all I use (again, my est/AT spec, 2000mah Eneloop)

160/2160 hrs (12.5ma)
100/200 hrs (20ma) 
13/25 hrs (150ma) 

My NiMh readings are rather inefficient, but as we've discussed before, I found the my 14500 current draws about right for efficiency. Let me know how your samples current draw looks.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 14, 2015)

*Re: Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* l...*



reppans said:


> My NiMh readings are rather inefficient, but as we've discussed before, I found the my 14500 current draws about right for efficiency. Let me know how your samples current draw looks.



I did measure currents on a bunch of lights recently, but they were so off, I think my DMM must be giving false readings. Runtime tests on my SC5w confirmed my current measurements must be off.

Your lumen measurements look similar to mine. Though, my high and max I estimate higher. Could be within error margin, though.

I've only done run-time for a couple of modes on my Prime A2, so far. Using regular Eneloops, 50 minutes on maximum, 2 hrs 56 min on high. They seem well-regulated, as far as I can tell. I declared the run-time over when the light started to warning flash. (I could still run it on lower modes, but I considered that past the run-time.)


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## Tac Gunner (Aug 14, 2015)

*Re: Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* l...*

As long as I have plenty of lower levels I don't think there is too many lumens. As someone said above though it depends if you're inside or outside too. My newest edc light (once the drop in comes in) is a Solarforce l2 with mountain electronics xhp50 that should be almost 2k lumens but it has the guppydry firmware so I have plenty of options of lower modes and it will be fine. Most of the time 100 lumens is sufficient for me but it's not uncommon I end up going from working inside during the day to working at night outside and not have a chance to get a different light so it's nice to have a light with plenty of options. I'm already drooling over Vinh's new p60vnt triple xpl's drop in that's 3700 lumens, it will be my next edc.


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## more_vampires (Aug 14, 2015)

*Re: Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* l...*



Tac Gunner said:


> I'm already drooling over Vinh's new p60vnt triple xpl's drop in that's 3700 lumens, it will be my next edc.



Just today opened the box! 1 CTvn xpl4000k dd, 1 CTvn xpl6000k dome on max drive. Both modules are sexy, sexy copper. Copper! CU! COPPER TRIPLE! Both are dressed out with the latest DriverVN (not VN or VNX, but VN2.)

Copper! The new gold!

Gonna be a bright time in the old forest tonight!  

Also on topic: A 55 watt HID I got from Fritz is a bit too much for the living room... *without sunglasses! :devil:*


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## reppans (Aug 14, 2015)

Just my $0.02, but I do find detriment to very bright lights for EDC for a few reasons:
- they tend to be larger and heavier for adequate mass to heat sink the power
- the tend to lean toward throwy beams 
- they require larger, heavier, specialized batteries with most forfeiting the ability to run commonly available cells (in a pinch)
- to avoid mode overload, having high end mode spacing tends to forfeit good low-end mode spacing.


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## markr6 (Aug 14, 2015)

_That Corvette puts out too much power, so I went with the Sonic_ _-_ said noone 

But then there's the price difference.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 14, 2015)

reppans said:


> Just my $0.02, but I do find detriment to very bright lights for EDC for a few reasons:
> - they tend to be larger and heavier for adequate mass to heat sink the power
> - the tend to lean toward throwy beams
> - they require larger, heavier, specialized batteries with most forfeiting the ability to run commonly available cells (in a pinch)
> - to avoid mode overload, having high end mode spacing tends to forfeit good low-end mode spacing.



None of that is a problem with the Zebralight SC5. It puts out 500 lumens, sure, only on a good NiMH AA cell like an Eneloop. But, it can use alkalines, you'll just have to stick with modes under 100 lumens. 11 different mode levels to program from gives good mode spacing. The only downside is you only get 3 minutes on 500 lumens before it steps down to 300. But, you can kick it back up once or twice without it getting too hot.

I think you missed the most obvious limitation: run-time on max output. If you need long run-time at 500 lumens, you need a bigger light.


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## reppans (Aug 14, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> None of that is a problem with the Zebralight SC5. It puts out 500 lumens, sure, only on a good NiMH AA cell like an Eneloop. But, it can use alkalines, you'll just have to stick with modes under 100 lumens. 11 different mode levels to program from gives good mode spacing. The only downside is you only get 3 minutes on 500 lumens before it steps down to 300. But, you can kick it back up once or twice without it getting too hot.
> 
> I think you missed the most obvious limitation: run-time on max output. If you need long run-time at 500 lumens, you need a bigger light.



Thanks... but I think you know I know the AA/14500 market pretty well . The SC5 is quite a NiMh accomplishment for ZL, congrats to them, but I've been disappointed with 2 out 2 of my ZLs, so will pass on the brand for a while. 

Anyways, by the US-ANSI I use, the SC5 is closer to 400lms, which I don't consider "very bright," especially as I favor 14500/16650 cells in my EDC (yet with the ability to run common AAs as backup). I was mostly referring to 800+ lumen 18650 lights in my previous post. Heck, my Neutron V2 does ~700 lms on a 14500 and half that on a NiMh. 

Thought I did cover your last point stating "larger, heavier" flashlights and batts, but as a low lumen enthusiast I only use Max for seconds at a time.


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## idleprocess (Aug 14, 2015)

Much like how a big light doesn't work so well putting out low lumens, a small light usually won't excel pumping out lumens near its performance limits. But that's fine so long as both are optimized for the functions they perform best and the added functions are treated as a bonus only to be used occasionally.


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## Nvincible (Aug 14, 2015)

Indoors I can see your point but outdoors? MORE, more!! lol
I was buying lights left and right until I got my HDS 250. I love everything about it. However... I could use MORE outdoors at night!! Love the size though. I hope I can stop for a while and just enjoy what I have!!!!


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## MidnightDistortions (Aug 15, 2015)

I don't think any EDC or any light for that matter could put out too much light. I recently got a TN4A and while it's not a pocket light, it is a compact thrower that is great for hiking at night or searching in the dark when that's all you can really have on your belt in terms in lumens/throw. It's different for every person and usually at night, 0.5 > 9 lumens is really all i need when i am at home so i don't wreck my night vision but it's nice to sometimes to use a 500+lm light as a candle for temporary lighting indoors when it's easier to grab a flashlight then to turn on a light for a few minutes.


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## mega_lumens (Aug 16, 2015)

Nvincible said:


> Indoors I can see your point but outdoors? MORE, more!! lol
> I was buying lights left and right until I got my HDS 250. I love everything about it. However... I could use MORE outdoors at night!! Love the size though. I hope I can stop for a while and just enjoy what I have!!!!


 I agree, for outdoors a lot of light is lost so more is always useful, 600-900 lumens is plenty sufficient for outdoors, but 300 lumens and under is not always enough. HDS Rotary has everything you want in a UI but its focus around a single CR123 greatly impedes its usefulness for outdoors. With so many HDS models built for a single 123, I'd wish HDS would make a dedicated 1860 light with 800 lumens at least to fill the gap for a outdoor light.


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## FRITZHID (Aug 16, 2015)

For outdoors, may be a little big for edc but I like the +1 kilolumen 26650 designs. Plenty of light AND runtime.


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## Wilburforce (Aug 18, 2015)

Of course, when you carry 2 EDC lights... one for low lumen work and one for more serious lighting... a tiny AAA or AA and an 18650. But then I prefer things with more specific rather than jack of all trades style.


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## etc (Aug 18, 2015)

Yeah, one instance. During an extended power outage, or a TSHTF situation, anything more than a few lumens will instantly attraction attention to you, negative attention that is, by hungry, light-less people who wonder why your place is all lit up. They will correctly assume that you are probably well supplied with everything else too, if you got illumination tools.

I went through a 3 day outage. A 300-lumen lite is normally not a big deal (and even then it attracts attention in normal times) but during an extensive outage, you leave a huge footprint. Everyone will wonder WTF.


Normal people don't have 300 lumen lights and a supply of cells big enough for a 5 year outage, or solar chargers, or all of that. They might have a Walmart special maglite laying somewhere at best, with half-dead batteries in it, or a key chain LED they got for free at their job.

I've had some people comment on my light collection that it's "very strange". And I have a modest collection by CPF standards. About 10 lites and none of them expensive, meaning over $150 or so.

Normal people don't have Surefires or SF clones from abroad.

So during an extended TSHTF outage, you want to shine one of these little red lites that generates 2 lumens and does not give away your position. Or 15 lumens at most. 

The other reason you don't want a lot of light during TSHTF / extended outage is that it depletes batteries faster and you want to go into power conservation mode. You don't know if it's permanent.

With the international situation being what it is, and WWIII brewing on the horizon, I would not be all that surprised if DC or NYC get nuked, along with other high priority targets. Then the lithium batteries you have will be the last ones you ever bought - ever. And you dont want to blow them away for nonsense but ration them to get the most bang per buck.


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## FRITZHID (Aug 18, 2015)

etc said:


> Yeah, one instance. During an extended power outage, or a TSHTF situation, anything more than a few lumens will instantly attraction attention to you, negative attention that is, by hungry, light-less people who wonder why your place is all lit up. They will correctly assume that you are probably well supplied with everything else too, if you got illumination tools.
> 
> I went through a 3 day outage. A 300-lumen lite is normally not a big deal (and even then it attracts attention in normal times) but during an extensive outage, you leave a huge footprint. Everyone will wonder WTF.
> 
> ...



Absolutely agree......
However....
As most of us know, our "big" lights are often capable of SLM modes as well as their multi KLM modes....
Not to mention, many of us know how to "hack" our own lights.
Some of us know how to scavenge components, batteries, other light sources, etc as well.
Can they be too bright?..... Well yes! Of course they CAN be but must they? No.
In a true SHTF/EOTWAWKI situation, there's going to be chaos of unavoidable proportions and we'll all be doing any/everything we can.
I have blackout shades on my Windows for a reason.
I have bobs, lights, genny, fuel, water and enough food to deal for x amount of time, that doesn't mean I'm sticking around tho!
Like I said before..... I'd rather have it and NOT need it than need it and NOT have it.


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## etc (Aug 18, 2015)

Well yeah. Just don't go outside and shine your 450 lumens upon the world when, chances are, *nobody* got *any* light.

You will attract a lot of negative attention. If not the first couple of days, eventually.

Shine your 15 lumens and appear like it's all you got. I love my G2x, it comes on in 15 lumens but you got 320 available with 2 clicks.


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## FRITZHID (Aug 18, 2015)

etc said:


> Well yeah. Just don't go outside and shine your 450 lumens upon the world when, chances are, *nobody* got *any* light.
> 
> You will attract a lot of negative attention. If not the first couple of days, eventually.



Yup!
Not to mention, a maxabeam on spot mode lighting ur *** up from 1000' mounted on a rifle will usually deter most living sentient beings. Lol


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## etc (Aug 18, 2015)

I made the mistake of doing that during the last power outage. I did get some negative attention, like "Holy Sheet, what the *** is that" type. When there was a massive blackout elsewhere. I was, Whoops. Either that, or they mistake you for the "Law" who always have nice lites and toys to play with and are better equipped than Joe sixpack. I think the average CPF member is considerably better equipped than the average "Law" member.


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## FRITZHID (Aug 18, 2015)

Yes, I've found it amusing when law (unbeknownst to me at first) lights me up and I light them right back with 5x or more and hear THEM say "holy****", usually shortly after that they query me as to Wtf I'm using and why they don't have lights like that! Lol
They receive a business card and I'm more than happy to advise or even build them a light they love.


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## etc (Aug 18, 2015)

You probably don't want attention from the law either during a power outage or TSHTF times.

Do you have a permit to run that generator non-stop, etc. etc. etc.

these monster lites make you stand out. You don't want to stand out during a crisis.


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## idleprocess (Aug 19, 2015)

etc said:


> Yeah, one instance. During an extended power outage, or a TSHTF situation, anything more than a few lumens will instantly attraction attention to you, negative attention that is, by hungry, light-less people who wonder why your place is all lit up. They will correctly assume that you are probably well supplied with everything else too, if you got illumination tools.
> [...]
> The other reason you don't want a lot of light during TSHTF / extended outage is that it depletes batteries faster and you want to go into power conservation mode. You don't know if it's permanent.


I can appreciate keeping a low profile and conserving battery life. Having spent many nights camping when I was younger I realized how the (relatively dim) incandescent lights of years gone by trashed night vision and reduced your sphere of awareness from miles to single-digit yards; indeed you could easily hide in the dark by being quiet and still behind the most flimsy of visual obstructions that would utterly fail to conceal in daylight.

However, I don't know about you, but almost every LED flashlight I've purchased in the past ~10 years has multiple modes. While small EDC-type lights might have modes that allow them to run at maximum possible output, they make appreciable sacrifices whenever run in these modes in terms of runtime and heat output. High output is a _bonus feature_. It's a bonus feature I prefer them to have, but they're much better in the double- and single-digit lumens area - and that's where they're used most of the time.


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## more_vampires (Aug 19, 2015)

etc said:


> I would not be all that surprised if DC or NYC get nuked, along with other high priority targets. Then the lithium batteries you have will be the last ones you ever bought - ever. And you dont want to blow them away for nonsense but ration them to get the most bang per buck.


I can make both soap and candles. Also: crank lights. Never forget that just because your light "runs on lithium batteries" doesn't mean you have to hook it up that way.  I run P60 on alkaline all the time.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 19, 2015)

etc said:


> With the international situation being what it is, and WWIII brewing on the horizon, I would not be all that surprised if DC or NYC get nuked, along with other high priority targets. Then the lithium batteries you have will be the last ones you ever bought - ever. And you dont want to blow them away for nonsense but ration them to get the most bang per buck.



Yeah, right, because your biggest worry in a post-apocalyptic nuclear holocaust will be where you can get your next CR123 battery.  



FRITZHID said:


> Yes, I've found it amusing when law (unbeknownst to me at first) lights me up and I light them right back with 5x or more and hear THEM say "holy****",



Hmmm... I'm not sure I'd do that. It probably makes cops nervous if you blind them. Nervous, paranoid types with guns aren't a good mix to be around.


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## recDNA (Aug 19, 2015)

I work in a large lab. There are no windows. 200 lumens doesn't come close to lighting it up. I like my edc to light up the entire area. I've yet to find a tailstanding edc that does to my satisfaction. Those that do are too big to edc so I haven't yet found an edc that is bright enough.


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## markr6 (Aug 19, 2015)

I like to tail stand my SC600w. Lots of light and a completely flat cap for stability. I also tail stand my SC52w on occasion when all the lamps in the bedroom would be too bright.


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## etc (Aug 19, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> I can make both soap and candles. Also: crank lights. Never forget that just because your light "runs on lithium batteries" doesn't mean you have to hook it up that way.  I run P60 on alkaline all the time.



Yes and same point applies to alkalines also, surprisingly.


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## more_vampires (Aug 19, 2015)

etc said:


> Yes and same point applies to alkalines also, surprisingly.


http://www.instructables.com/id/My-Improvised-DC-Generator-Build/

Where there's a will, there's a way. Studying for the apocalypse is a hobby of mine. 

Engines can be set up to run on wood gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas_generator


> A *wood gas generator* is a gasification unit which converts timber or charcoal into wood gas, a syngas consisting of atmospheric nitrogen, carbon monoxide, hydrogen, traces of methane, and other gases, which - after cooling and filtering - can then be used to power an internal combustion engine or for other purposes. Historically wood gas generators were often mounted on vehicles, but present studies and developments concentrate mostly on stationary plants.


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## etc (Aug 19, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yeah, right, because your biggest worry in a post-apocalyptic nuclear holocaust will be where you can get your next CR123 battery..




Sure. For other people, who don't have any lites, YOUR lites AND batteries will be their target. They will clean out all you got. Then where you will get your next battery will become a priority because food preparation and night mobility will become contingent upon it.


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## more_vampires (Aug 19, 2015)

etc said:


> Sure. For other people, who don't have any lites, YOUR lites AND batteries will be their target. They will clean out all you got. Then where you will get your next battery will become a priority because food preparation and night mobility will become contingent upon it.


Rendered fat, melted butter, or vegetable oil, pour in a shallow dish, saucer, metal ramiken or shotglass. Place a strip of cloth, bandage, or paper towel in the dish. Raise part of the wick slightly with a bent paper clip. Now you have an oil lamp. Combine with a device called a "candle box lantern" for outdoor use and wind resistance.

You can also do a cup of tea over one. I SUPPOSE you could buy an oil lamp before the apocalypse, but where's the fun in that? We're supposed to hack and build EVERYTHING once SHTF/TEOTWAWKI.

Someone might take my life in the apocalypse, but nobody and I mean NOBODY can take all of my lights. They can only get some. Take me out, and most of my light sources actually go with me. Physical objects are nothing compared to knowledge.


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## D6859 (Aug 21, 2015)

I think SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situations or preparing for them isn't every day for most of us  Lighting your house after the apocalypse isn't what you use your EDC for but your Collection of Post-Apocalyptic Lights (tm). 

I use my EDC a lot as a bike light. I've found the 280 lm level most useful for that but sometimes when the street lights are turned off during the night I use higher modes up to 1000 lumes. 280 lumens is also enough for lighting a small room, walking outdoors, blinding a person etc. It's too much for close-up work but then you can use the palm check to chang to lower or simply point the hotspot little out of the target and use the spill instead. My EDC is a 280 lm flashlight with options for higher and lower output.


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## more_vampires (Aug 21, 2015)

D6859 said:


> I think SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situations or preparing for them isn't every day for most of us  Lighting your house after the apocalypse isn't what you use your EDC for but your Collection of Post-Apocalyptic Lights (tm).


Lol, I EDC4SHTF.  I'm kind of a prepper, just not the totally insane kind. Mostly sane. 



D6859 said:


> I use my EDC a lot as a bike light. I've found the 280 lm level most useful for that but sometimes when the street lights are turned off during the night I use higher modes up to 1000 lumes. 280 lumens is also enough for lighting a small room, walking outdoors, blinding a person etc. It's too much for close-up work but then you can use the palm check to chang to lower or simply point the hotspot little out of the target and use the spill instead. My EDC is a 280 lm flashlight with options for higher and lower output.


How do you like to attach it to the bike? I'm considering getting back into bicycling and like the thought of popping an EDC onto the bike bars.


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## reppans (Aug 21, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Lol, I EDC4SHTF.  I'm kind of a prepper, just not the totally insane kind. Mostly sane.
> 
> How do you like to attach it to the bike? I'm considering getting back into bicycling and like the thought of popping an EDC onto the bike bars.



Try Twofish Lockblocks - I use their perpendicular mount on the handlebars and their parallel mount on my bike helmet (threaded through the air vents in the top). They're also only a few $, so no big deal if they stolen.


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## D6859 (Aug 21, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> How do you like to attach it to the bike? I'm considering getting back into bicycling and like the thought of popping an EDC onto the bike bars.



I use this thing here:






Try and google 'bike mount for flashlight'. My mount is secure and depending on how tight you turn the screw you can adjust the distance how far the light points without unscrewing. I like that I can just press the flashlight into it even when riding the bike. My Thrunite TN12 and Olight M22 fit in just perfect. Might fit any other 1" aswell.


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## Monocrom (Aug 21, 2015)

Too much output?? Never!

I often find myself disappointment (either quite a bit or at least a little by the level of output).

Only exception is my Photon Freedom that lives on my main keychain. But it's never my main pick for any big lighting chores.


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## marinemaster (Aug 22, 2015)

*Is there a point at which you believe an EDC flashlight puts out *too much* l...*

SF has this fixation with getting 1 hour of runtime on whatever light they are making, typically their tactical lights. Take the Peacemaker it has 600 lumens for 1 hour or so. Now the low level is 15 lumens. Really ? It would be great if it had say 70 lumens then 200 lumens then 350 lumens then 600. I just don't get them sometimes. 
Same with their G2X series I believe 15 lumens then 225 or 250 lumens I believe for like 1 hour. I don't see the point. Why no levels in between ?
So say one day technology allows 5000 lumens out of a 18650, I bet they will make a light with 1 hour runtime at 5000 lumens while the low level would be like 15 lumens. 
Streamlight seems to be doing the same thing. These days low and medium levels are mostly ignored. Is a shame.
Humans have been doing fine for tens of thousands of years with light provided by the moonlight. Same with light provided from candles. I don't believe in "i need" 1000 lumens. By the same token humans have been at war with each other for tens of thousands of years. No, one does not need brand X that takes 12 CR123 so their HID can output 5000 lumens to go to war. Thats marketing bs.
Say search and rescue, coastguard, cave exploring, outside of a few specialized duty, not really.


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## Going_Supernova (Aug 22, 2015)

There's no such thing as a light with too many lumens, just eyes with insufficient protection. 

In regard to the OP question, as has already been mentioned, it's kind of like horsepower--can you have too much power? Well, it depends! 

What you need as far as lumens for an EDC light depends on what your ED need is for lumens. It will be quite different for someone that works outside during the daylight versus someone that works in a mine or tunnel. So, I think the OP needs to qualify the question with some more information as to where and doing what. 

As for myself, I EDC 3 lumens to 1000 lumens capability, and I am in and out of daylight but spend most of the time indoors with AC lights available. But I carry lights for practical and tactical reasons. I guess I'm just a grown up Boy Scout, I believe in being prepared, so I try to live prepared. YMMV. As to my collection of lights, my name says it best, I'm slowly going supernova in lumen capability! :0


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## caheaton (Aug 24, 2015)

Count me as one who leans towards most EDC's offering more than enough lumens. Having recently returned from a camping trip to Maine, my wife and I were annoyed by how bright (and irresponsible by pointing them in our faces) the flashlights were that were being carried by other campers. We liked to lay back at night and observe the meteors (Perseid meteor shower) and it seemed nearly every camper that walked by had a several hundred lumen light blazing away and they just had to point them right at us to see why we were laying back staring at the sky. I even had one couple who were carrying an intensely bright lantern stop just a few yards from us and stood there holding a conversation between themselves (with said lantern unshielded of course). 

For myself, I found that the Olight S10 in moonlight mode offered more than enough light most of the time. On those rare occasions that I needed more light I'd bump it up to low or rarely medium. It's nice to have the extra firepower on tap so that it's available if you need it, but for most situations less is better.


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## WarRaven (Aug 24, 2015)

When it gets pointed in my face, my Olight Javelot answers.
Yeah, rude experience can be had and largely by department store lights, not our cannons, usually.☺


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## caheaton (Aug 24, 2015)

Only problem is, if I reply with a bright light, it only compounds the destruction of my night vision. With that said, I was close to shining my Olight in strobe mode at the couple with the lantern....


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## WarRaven (Aug 24, 2015)

Yeah, I was just being a shmuck, you're correct to just let them pass.
Kudos +1


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## FRITZHID (Aug 24, 2015)

I'll usually just give someone a polite fast flash (showing my fire power) and then ask if they mind taking theirs elsewhere, rarely do I need to fire my cannon at them again.


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## WarRaven (Aug 24, 2015)

Next thing you know, they were baiting you and pull out a 35watt hid from local hardware store an laugh maniacally.
In the States, you shoot at the light,
in Canada, we throw a rabid beaver with similar results. 

Best to let a nasty situation pass on by most of the time, idk, ymmv.


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## FRITZHID (Aug 24, 2015)

Only 35 watts? Yeah, I can top that. Lol


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## Tac Gunner (Aug 25, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Next thing you know, they were baiting you and pull out a 35watt hid from local hardware store an laugh maniacally.


Flashaholics don't go out fishing for other people with lights so they can show off their lights do they lol ?

Back during the 4th of July we were on the lake watching fireworks and somebody on another boat had a department store light they kept shining at the other boats so I took it upon myself to stop it, a couple of times of lighting their whole boat up with my TK41 and they stopped lol.

After working on a car outside in the middle of the afternoon yesterday I greatly appreciated having the 2k lumens of my light. With the sun shining straight down on us it took over 500 lumens to be able to see down in the shadows because of the glare of the sun. At times it took 2k.


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## WarRaven (Aug 25, 2015)

Fritz, frying camper's. 👍

Tac Gunner, not that I know of, not our members imo, Joe blow that score lights at hardware stores, ooh I'm betting some do.
Hopefully they light up Fritz, and that should be the end of that.

Nice job deterring others yourself, Tac.
Sometimes you need to, others it's a definite oops.


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## Tac Gunner (Aug 25, 2015)

Thank ya sir. We also had a guy on a house boat decide it would be funny to shine a green laser in our faces, he was met with every light we had on board


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## WarRaven (Aug 25, 2015)

It's high time we mounted lasers to beavers!!!


Seriously though
Wtg, must have been like a gun stand off 
where one side is obviously favored.


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## Tac Gunner (Aug 25, 2015)

No he quickly went back to minding his own business lol


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## FRITZHID (Aug 25, 2015)

That's the nice thing about Uber bright lights, unlike lasers, aiming at someone and hitting them in the eyes is much easier, whilst rendering their aim useless.


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## Tixx (Aug 29, 2015)

Went from lumens to tint on the OP!


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