# Why I hate LED Flashlights and Lights



## sharpnails (Jan 10, 2017)

Yeap I did away with many LEDs in my house.

1.) I am using flashlights to search for items either outside or inside, I need to be able to see colors that incandescent bulbs provide, and that white LED just washes out.

2.) Discreet searching. I feel like I'm holding a signaling devices rather than a flashlight with LED flashlights, seems like something to get someones attention with. See them before they see you right? Not let them see you with a bright LED looking for them (lets say an intruder) Another reason I like incans

3.) Why would I need a super bright light for just searching within 50 meters as most people do with their flashlights?

4.) This should be my #1, better on eyes, the light has a closer wavelength to normal sunlight I would say, helping them adjust better to what you are looking at especially at night.

5.) But LEDS have better battery life! Batteries are getting better, are cheap and rechargeable now a days it is something I am willing to risk with incans.

6.) But incans burn out way quicker than LEDS! I know a lot of people with incans that have gone for 10 years without a bulb burnout.

7.) Health. Blue light from LEDS is unseen that can disturb sleep rhythms and possibly increase the risk of serious health conditions, including cancer and cardiovascular disease. The AMA also cautioned that those light-emitting-diode lights can impair nighttime driving vision. 

This just came out this September..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...7bbd53d2b5d_story.html?utm_term=.34ab1fa1db67


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## TinderBox (UK) (Jan 10, 2017)

You sound Very Special as your the fist person to come to my attention in my 10 years on CPF.

John.


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## Lex Icon (Jan 10, 2017)

You will find a lot of sympathy here, especially among those fond of natural, generally warmer tints from Nichia LEDs.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ri-4000K-Beam-shot-comparison-and-impressions

You might find lights having less focused beams more useful for indoor use than the models in the thread above. Eagletac has a variety of new options in their 2017 offerings. 
Search Nichia 219 on the forums and you will discover a lot of interesting links.

*If you maintain your insistence on filament lights, you had better stock up soon. Some countries, Brazil for example, have outlawed the production and sale of any incandescent bulbs 25 watts and higher.


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## bykfixer (Jan 10, 2017)

Rant on dude!

You're among friends in this section of the forum. 
Many _tolerate_ LED's but still like incans better.


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## sgt253 (Jan 10, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Rant on dude!
> 
> You're among friends in this section of the forum.
> Many _tolerate_ LED's but still like incans better.





+1


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## LeanBurn (Jan 10, 2017)

I agree, incans are super easy on the eyes, they set the benchmark for color rendition accuracy that has yet to be matched by any LED. They are what we grew up on using and deep down have our mind set as the be-all. For a 10 year old, unless they open dad or granddads tool kit, they will never see an incan in real life, just in the movies and on-line.

If we take the example of a noob or even a flashaholic looking for their first incan light, your options are extremely limited and the biggest option is Mag-lite (let's pretend they are the only affordable player in the game because for most, they are). Unfortunately the disadvantages for incan really are ultimately; portability, run-times and availability. 

Here is a video link on Yuji Super High CRI LEDs: https://youtu.be/L3LWXznJx_0 ... I have the Yuji 5mm LED and have shown a comparison to a few people side-by-side with my incan and ... dang ...


Who knows what is around the corner....


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## bykfixer (Jan 10, 2017)

There was a thread in this section iirc about a project at MIT and another on Korea where nano technology being incorparated into incan bulbs has already yielded efficiency of LED's. One was using its own heat to generate more light and the other micro mirrors or something. 
It was a crazy cool thing to see. If those ever become inexspensive and super caps prices come down... 
That'll be a time when you'll hear crickets chirping in the LED section and all the cool kids will want to flock here.

Shhh! Let's keep this our little secret, ok? I like the peace n quiet of the incan section. Real ideas without all those stupid cri charts n graphs trying to prove maxing out R9 red means it's good.


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## yellow (Jan 11, 2017)

> know a lot of people with incans that have gone for 10 years without a bulb burnout.


... then never have _used_ those lights


Typical values to 
Mag C/D ... Quite some time
6r/6p, Scorpion ... A few Sets of batteries
8x ... About 20-40 duty cycles of the battery
9n, 2ndary bulb ...  within a few lightups
9n, Main bulb ... A bit more than 8x
Minimag: 1.5 Set of battery (~ 5-6 hours) (w. AA ni-mh)

Darkening /  simply is normal, have spare ready and go on
(And pray for non-"Explosion" of the bulb, which renders the reflector useless. No Deal with 6 and 8, but with 9n (or even worse 9nt) an expensive nightmare)


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## yellow (Jan 11, 2017)

> incorparated into incan bulbs has already yielded efficiency of LED's. One was using its own heat to generate more light and .


available!
For years.
At the 12 v bulbs

Osram Decostar "IRC"
... Still far below efficiency of ...


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## bykfixer (Jan 11, 2017)

yellow said:


> available!
> For years.
> At the 12 v bulbs



Uh... no. 




Please break your computer.


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## vicv (Jan 11, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Uh... no.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The osram irc bulbs are like that. They have a coating on the envelope which reflected ir radiation back to the filament


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## chillinn (Jan 11, 2017)

yellow said:


> Typical values to
> ...
> Minimag: 1.5 Set of battery (~ 5-6 hours) (w. AA ni-mh)



Well, luck and government surplus has solved this problem. 

I know I need to shut up about these lamps, but I've gone through 20 battery swaps at least, and not with 3V, but 4.2V, and I can't break this lamp. It's getting darkening, but still producing the warm light I want. 

Also, I like the enthusiasm, and I like dissent, so yellow don't be discouraged when finding your opinions unpopular.


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## ampdude (Jan 11, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> There was a thread in this section iirc about a project at MIT and another on Korea where nano technology being incorparated into incan bulbs has already yielded efficiency of LED's. One was using its own heat to generate more light and the other micro mirrors or something.
> It was a crazy cool thing to see. If those ever become inexspensive and super caps prices come down...
> That'll be a time when you'll hear crickets chirping in the LED section and all the cool kids will want to flock here.
> 
> Shhh! Let's keep this our little secret, ok? I like the peace n quiet of the incan section. Real ideas without all those stupid cri charts n graphs trying to prove maxing out R9 red means it's good.



I've read a lot of this stuff, and I know that halogen technology has improved greatly in recent years. Probably wishful thinking, but it would be hilarious if incan halogen and nano-technology re-emerged and took LED's over.


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## chillinn (Jan 11, 2017)

ampdude said:


> I've read a lot of this stuff, and I know that halogen technology has improved greatly in recent years. Probably wishful thinking, but it would be hilarious if incan halogen and nano-technology re-emerged and took LED's over.



But if that happens, and Surefire started selling incan again, it would kill my predictions of a stock incan-E HA (not even BK) being market-valued at $1000+ by 2030. Actually, Surefire returning to incan and chilling the incan resale market would probably be a good thing, because insanity is almost never a good thing.


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## bykfixer (Jan 11, 2017)

With LED's being so inexpensive to produce these new gizmos won't be in daily life anytime soon. 

And btw yellow it goes way, way, way beyond anything Osram has ever done. But nice try.


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## Woods Walker (Jan 11, 2017)

Over the years I have watched the disparity in viewership between the Incan and LED sections of CPF grown. Anyone want to guess in what direction. The same applies for the general market. That said if the OP doesn't like LEDs that's ok. To each their own.


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## Kestrel (Jan 12, 2017)

Woods Walker said:


> Over the years I have watched the disparity in viewership between the Incan and LED sections of CPF grown. Anyone want to guess in what direction. The same applies for the general market. That said if the OP doesn't like LEDs that's ok. To each their own.


We also went a long time before needing a /Smoke & Fire/ battery subforum. 

There will always be a role for this /Incan/ subforum.


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## ampdude (Jan 12, 2017)

chillinn said:


> But if that happens, and Surefire started selling incan again, it would kill my predictions of a stock incan-E HA (not even BK) being market-valued at $1000+ by 2030. Actually, Surefire returning to incan and chilling the incan resale market would probably be a good thing, because insanity is almost never a good thing.



Well, as far as I'm aware they DO still make the 6P and black G2. And replacement P60's and MN03's. Or at least have new old stock available. For how long?

If certain SF lights like the E2e are $1,000+ by 2030, then at least a lot of us collectors have our retirement nest eggs..


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## jsd (Jan 13, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> There was a thread in this section iirc about a project at MIT and another on Korea where nano technology being incorparated into incan bulbs has already yielded efficiency of LED's. One was using its own heat to generate more light and the other micro mirrors or something.
> It was a crazy cool thing to see. If those ever become inexspensive and super caps prices come down...
> That'll be a time when you'll hear crickets chirping in the LED section and all the cool kids will want to flock here.
> 
> Shhh! Let's keep this our little secret, ok? I like the peace n quiet of the incan section. Real ideas without all those stupid cri charts n graphs trying to prove maxing out R9 red means it's good.



I feel like this has been around for a while though. There are some automotive light bulbs I remember seeing 10+ years ago where a coating on the glass would reflect the heat back to the filament to make it emit more light.

It was not LED level efficient though. Maybe 2000 Lumens for a 55W bulb which is about double the output of a normal 9006 bulb for the same energy cost.


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## ampdude (Jan 13, 2017)

sharpnails said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...7bbd53d2b5d_story.html?utm_term=.34ab1fa1db67




That makes me angry that you can barely only find blue wavelength LED night lights these days. You have to look really hard to find incan ones or bulbs for them. I've stocked up on what incan night lights and bulbs I could find recently. And it's kind of annoying that there's no such thing as ones with an on/off switch anymore, but that I can live without.


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## chillinn (Jan 14, 2017)

ampdude said:


> That makes me angry that you can barely only find blue wavelength LED night lights these days. You have to look really hard to find incan ones or bulbs for them. I've stocked up on what incan night lights and bulbs I could find recently. And it's kind of annoying that there's no such thing as ones with an on/off switch anymore, but that I can live without.



The night light market has been devistated by feature creep. Night light engineers just keep jumping the shark with every product revision. Give me back my Christmas bulb night lights! Where are you when I need you, Bugs? Mickey? Come back!


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## bykfixer (Jan 14, 2017)

I bought this night light for $125k.
It came with a free house.

It's 3'x1.5' wooden frame covered with red white and blue incan Christmas bulbs that was hanging in the den of the house I looked at. I told the real estate lady "tell the seller to throw in the house with that flag and they've got a deal."


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## KITROBASKIN (Jan 14, 2017)

ampdude said:


> That makes me angry that you can barely only find blue wavelength LED night lights these days. You have to look really hard to find incan ones or bulbs for them. I've stocked up on what incan night lights and bulbs I could find recently. And it's kind of annoying that there's no such thing as ones with an on/off switch anymore, but that I can live without.



Listed on staples and amazon website. I got the motion activated plug-in and really like it : specs claim 2700K and after eyes are dark adapted it is too much light for me. 

https://www.maxximastyle.com/led-ni...-to-dawn-sensor-package-of-2-led-night-lights


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## bykfixer (Jan 14, 2017)

My wife put this in our bathroom.
I said "get that green beam outta there aaaaaauuugggh!!"

So these days it resides in the kitchen and the bathroom has a nice incan looking glow from a solar deck lamp in the window.



It's LED but has a nice amber glow about as bright as moonlight.


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## wimmer21 (Jan 14, 2017)

I keep seeing this thread title pop up. Is there a Hatfield and McCoys deal going on that I'm not privy to? Just wanna know if i need to dust off ol' Betsy or not.


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## irongate (Jan 14, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> My wife put this in our bathroom.
> I said "get that green beam outta there aaaaaauuugggh!!"
> 
> So these days it resides in the kitchen and the bathroom has a nice incan looking glow from a solar deck lamp in the window.
> ...



I'm sorry but that green what-ever bathroom light would have to go -WOW-sorry Mike-LOL


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## bykfixer (Jan 15, 2017)

wimmer21 said:


> I keep seeing this thread title pop up. Is there a Hatfield and McCoys deal going on that I'm not privy to? Just wanna know if i need to dust off ol' Betsy or not.



Not really. Just a few blokes digging on incan products. I suppose somebody will pop in and state how stupid an incan light is at some point... that's when you can load up ole Betsy...



irongate said:


> I'm sorry but that green what-ever bathroom light would have to go -WOW-sorry Mike-LOL


That is why it's in the kitchen B.


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## dc38 (Jan 15, 2017)

Ahem...Incans are stupid because...well, besides potential safety hazard....have you even seen what goes into an LED? The crap that goes into one LED can render a whole area infertile and unfarmable for years.


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## bykfixer (Jan 15, 2017)

I pour the powder from busted flourescents down the sink to share the carcinegons with everybody downstream. 

Eh, just kidding but yeah a lot of potentially hazardous stuff goes into all those US government required light bulbs these days. Afterall... "we must save the planet" ..."it's for the children"


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## Mercyfulfate1777 (Jan 15, 2017)

ill chime in briefly, I love led lights! but being oldschool i also love the old incans as well. I have blue leds on my HD that look really cool, especially rolling down the highway at 75 mph,lol


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## bykfixer (Jan 15, 2017)

wimmer21 said:


> I keep seeing this thread title pop up. Is there a Hatfield and McCoys deal going on that I'm not privy to? Just wanna know if i need to dust off ol' Betsy or not.



When I can get a sustained 400+ lumens from a CR123 from an incan or 175+ from a 1x aa I'll stop using LED lights.

But I still prefer the incan when it's practical. 
Especially those 6 volt 2 cell kind. I still grin ear to ear when letting go of the button and see that 3/4 second glow down.


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## ssanasisredna (Jan 15, 2017)

Shhh... don't tell him that it won't be really be an incan bulb any more .... at least not in spectrum.





bykfixer said:


> There was a thread in this section iirc about a project at MIT and another on Korea where nano technology being incorparated into incan bulbs has already yielded efficiency of LED's. One was using its own heat to generate more light and the other micro mirrors or something.
> It was a crazy cool thing to see. If those ever become inexspensive and super caps prices come down...
> That'll be a time when you'll hear crickets chirping in the LED section and all the cool kids will want to flock here.
> 
> Shhh! Let's keep this our little secret, ok? I like the peace n quiet of the incan section. Real ideas without all those stupid cri charts n graphs trying to prove maxing out R9 red means it's good.


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## ssanasisredna (Jan 15, 2017)

I feel like I have accidentally wandered onto Twitter ....


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## vicv (Jan 15, 2017)

Isn't Twitter a place to share photos? Haven't seen many in this thread:shrug:


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## ssanasisredna (Jan 15, 2017)

I tried to let it go ... I really did.

1) I swear these blue socks were black ... oh well I am just camping. Oh look, that grass is actually green and not sort of some muddy green color. Back at the campground, let's switch back to the warm white LED, less glare.

2) Let's see, I am just out for a hike, a nice 40 lumens will do fine. It so nice not to need to carry extra batteries on a long night hike .. .... but now I am back in the camp site so I am going to dial it down to 5 so I don't disturb the kids sleeping. Is that a raccoon in the garbage? 200 lumens should do just fine.

3) See 2.

4) There are 8 different colors of wires in this harness. Good thing I am not using a incan that would not let me tell the difference between the blue and black wire, especially since the batteries would likely be running down and it would be practically red/orange. Again, nice to see grass close to the color we normally see it in sunlight. 

5) Another long night hike tonight ... still on the same battery. This thing is awesome. I think I am going to sit and watch the stars for a while. Let's turn on the 660nm aux LEDs on this head lamp so I can make my way around a bit while not completely killing my night vision. The firefly mode is great ... could never do that with my old incan, but these 660's are even better!

6) I wonder what happened to John ... I swear he was right behind me. He had to stop and change a broken bulb. I hate it when that happens. We have been here a week and have hiked only 20 hours. You just never know with those things.

7) Back in the camper. Not tired so I think I am going to read for a while. I don't want to disturb anybody, so I am not going to use the main neutral white LED, even though it is much better for my vision for reading, so going to drop back down to the warm white LED again. It's a good high CRI version and has no more energy in the critical wavelengths for circadian rhythm than John's halogen flashlight ... and even better, I can turn mine just to the level I want. It's also nicely diffused.

Yup, these newfangled LED headlights are not perfect, but I forgot what a pain and how inflexible those old incans were. They remind me of all season tires ... or as my mechanic puts it, the wrong tire in every season.







sharpnails said:


> Yeap I did away with many LEDs in my house.
> 
> 1.) I am using flashlights to search for items either outside or inside, I need to be able to see colors that incandescent bulbs provide, and that white LED just washes out.
> 
> ...


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## chillinn (Jan 15, 2017)

Time to wake ol' Betsy. Better bring Featherduster and Double Trouble for good measure.


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## bykfixer (Jan 15, 2017)

X2 ^^ 



wimmer21 said:


> I keep seeing this thread title pop up. Is there a Hatfield and McCoys deal going on that I'm not privy to? Just wanna know if i need to dust off ol' Betsy or not.





(Beat me to it Chillin)


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## staticx57 (Jan 16, 2017)

Can't we all get along? I just bought a bi-pin for my M4 to have some Incan fun again. Even with this though, LEDs are just so much cheaper to run.
But then again incans provide such a nice glow and light.

Then we have HIDs which are just something cool. Really anyone should appreciate all forms of light.


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## chillinn (Jan 16, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> X2 ^^
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We are as one. Go RiverDogs!. Wait, I mean... Go Renegades!!. Wait. wth? Well, this is the weather and the year for the return of stick on ice in VA, if ever there was one. In the meantime, Go Pens!


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## LedTed (Jan 17, 2017)

ampdude said:


> That makes me angry that you can barely only find blue wavelength LED night lights these days. You have to look really hard to find incan ones or bulbs for them. I've stocked up on what incan night lights and bulbs I could find recently. And it's kind of annoying that there's no such thing as ones with an on/off switch anymore, but that I can live without.



Several years back, when my now wife was my then girlfriend, she gifted me a blue LED keychain light. I had it for a long time, but it kind of finally fell apart. I always found the color very useable. And, I miss the light.


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## wimmer21 (Jan 17, 2017)

Grab the scatter gun Jethro!


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## wimmer21 (Jan 17, 2017)

I wonder... do I need to buy an incandescent light? 

Hmm, a better question might be... what's an incandescent light? ;-)


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## chillinn (Jan 17, 2017)

wimmer21 said:


> I wonder... do I need to buy an incandescent light?
> 
> Hmm, a better question might be... what's an incandescent light? ;-)



Pretty thorough treatment on the Wiki


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## Bushman5 (Jan 30, 2017)

BAH HUMBUG TO these new fangled geeewhizits and hoodads...incandescent light! LED light! Tools of the devil! real men use Dietz #80 kerosene lanterns! 

BAH! 

:sick2:


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## Need a Light? (Feb 4, 2017)

I've gone on one night hike. It was up a ~500-1000ft hill that was basically a huge rock up in Maine, quite steep, wooded for the bottom 80% and open rock up top. I went with a best friend and our girls. Me and the friend were rocking 6D 'dynalite's (old Ohio based us made plastic lights with two stacks of 3 cells behind a huge reflector with a handle, not unlike a 6v lantern with inline D's) with HPR51s pushed by nimh and nicd d cells. The girls had a C8 and a mini mag pro. But my friend wouldn't stop praising the dynalite's, and I had to agree. Lots of fun. 

Led is great, I love to laugh at how bright a room can get when I take a pocketable light and make a room decently bright. But my G2 with 17670 and 3.7v xenon is my best friend. Run times be damned! Batteries are rechargeable!


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## tab665 (Feb 5, 2017)

REUNITED!!! i lost one of my incan rigs about 2 years ago at work. it was an OR slim 50, P6 adapter and head,with a shorty tail to fit an 18650. In it i had a lumens factory EO-4 bulb. fast forward 2 years and someone found it!!! simply put, it works better in my application at work than any other LED light i have tried. even though its only 150 bulb lumens it puts those lumens EXACTLY where i want it. EDC sized LED lights tend to put their lumens all over the place and lights up everything equally, which in turn, still makes it hard to focus on what im trying to look at.


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## bykfixer (Feb 5, 2017)

^^ I ♡ happy endings.

Although it's an LED I fell for the unregulated SureFire E1Bc because it acts like an incan, has that tunnel beam of an incan and the lumens of a much larger incan in a 1 cell size.


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## KiwiMark (Feb 5, 2017)

I've got so many LED lights I lose track. Many are neutral white or warm white and quite a few are high CRI Nichia versions. Personally I think LEDs are great for the efficiency, which makes a really big difference to smaller lights. Multimode is a true Godsend too, so useful to be able to set the amount of light to whatever suits the task best.

I've also got a bunch of incan lights. Pretty much all of them are bigger lights that use larger batteries where efficiency isn't nearly so critical. The one I use the most is my Maglite 2D with Pelican low bulb running 2 x 32650 5,000mAh cells - it can run for a couple of hours on a charge which is pretty decent and the light output is very useful. I've been known to take that ROP Lo Maglite camping, colour rendition is fantastic and it throws decently well.

In my world LED and incan happily co-exist!
The only LED I hated and swapped away was a Fenix E-01 that had a horrible 'angry purple' output.


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## badbs101 (Feb 21, 2017)

To me, 

Incans are for fun and LEDs are for survival/bugout bags. When you need the light to work, and for a long time, LEDs. 

When lighting something in a less stressful or critical environment, I prefer incans. It's more natural, no PWM and easier on the eyes. Even low output LEDs can give me that scratchy-eyed feeling I remember after getting my picture taken by my mom's Brownie Hawkeye camera with it's nuclear powered flash bulb.


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## bykfixer (Feb 21, 2017)

badbs101 said:


> To me,
> Even low output LEDs can give me that scratchy-eyed feeling I remember after getting my picture taken by my mom's Brownie Hawkeye camera with it's nuclear powered flash bulb.



Awe yeah, those disposable flash bulbs were the worst man. Your grandmas whips out her point n shoot with the flashbulb that rotates each time it fires...
"Say cheese" wait, n wait, n wait "little johnnie slide closer to your sister"... wait n wait n wait knowing sooner or later your brother will blink at the exact moment you hear the click and grandmas gonna say "alright somebody blinked, but that was the last flash so stay put while I change the flash bulb." Ugh! 
So yeah 3 or 4 pics later your jaws hurt from fake smiling and you're bumping into walls from being blinded repeatedly because your [email protected]$$ brother kept blinking. 

Yup some LED's at 2am brings back those fond memories.


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## Hugh Johnson (Feb 22, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> I bought this night light for $125k.
> It came with a free house.
> 
> It's 3'x1.5' wooden frame covered with red white and blue incan Christmas bulbs that was hanging in the den of the house I looked at. I told the real estate lady "tell the seller to throw in the house with that flag and they've got a deal."



Nice! Where I come from you can only buy a studio apartment for twice that price. Not necessarily a nice one, either. I wish that wasn't so.


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## Hugh Johnson (Feb 22, 2017)

sharpnails said:


> Yeap I did away with many LEDs in my house.
> 
> 1.) I am using flashlights to search for items either outside or inside, I need to be able to see colors that incandescent bulbs provide, and that white LED just washes out.
> 
> ...



My thoughts:
1. I agree incans are superior here. 
2. LED advantage. Both of my new lights have modes that are more discreet than even my incan Maglite solitaires (which I love). 
3. Because some people need their lights for more than searching close to moderate distances. For myself, searching is a distant priority. 
4. Agree. 
5. As batteries improve the advantage of led's increases. I need a light to get me through the night in the unlikely event I get lost in the woods during one of my adventures. Not having to carry a pile of batteries with me makes it more likely I will have such a light with me. 
6. Depends on the use case. I think empirical evidence shows that led's last longer. 
7. Agree.


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## Modernflame (Feb 26, 2017)

sharpnails said:


> Yeap I did away with many LEDs in my house.
> 
> 1.) I am using flashlights to search for items either outside or inside, I need to be able to see colors that incandescent bulbs provide, and that white LED just washes out.
> 
> ...



When Surefire started introducing LED flashlights back in...whenever that was, I purchased a U2 Ultra. The cool factor was off the charts, but I was disenchanted by the the tint of the light. I decided then that I would continue using incandescent lights for many of the reasons you listed. However, today's neutral white LED's have remedied many of those woeful tint maladies, at least in my estimation. After I read your post, I held my old Surefire 6P incandescent in one hand and my neutral Hound Dog from Malkoff devices in the other. The incandescent light is warmer, but the color rendition is excellent in both lights. In fact, in my very unscientific test, the Hound Dog's 4000k beam seemed a truer representation of daylight. All that is to say that you may find it worth your while to experiment with neutral LED's.


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## ssanasisredna (Feb 26, 2017)

wimmer21 said:


> I wonder... do I need to buy an incandescent light?
> 
> Hmm, a better question might be... what's an incandescent light? ;-)



I think you can find them next to the 8-Tracks.


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## bykfixer (Feb 27, 2017)

Hugh Johnson said:


> Nice! Where I come from you can only buy a studio apartment for twice that price. Not necessarily a nice one, either. I wish that wasn't so.



Houses were on the clearance rack when I bought mine. 

Yeah, some say LED's help stop global warming, others say they cause epilectic seizures and adhd.
But the bottom line is what once seemed like the hoola-hoop is here to stay. Thankfully, through time many are begininng to mimic the fabled light bulb.


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## TKC (Feb 27, 2017)

*The OP hates LED's, and I LOVE them. I am NOT a fan of incan's.*


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## fivemega (Feb 27, 2017)

TKC said:


> *I am NOT a fan of incan's.*


*You are. Because you view and post in incandescent subforums.*


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## scout24 (Feb 27, 2017)

These are the not the lights you're looking for...


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## KITROBASKIN (Feb 27, 2017)

Are incandescents the equivalent of having a manual transmission in a car for stop and go commuting?


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## scout24 (Feb 27, 2017)

Manual transmission, no ABS, traction control, vehicle stability control, or any of that jazz. Headers. Straight pipes. High-test gas. 4 barrel carbs. Y'all can keep that EFI nonsense. You may be faster in your new Dodge Demon, but you'll NEVER have the '70 Hemi Cuda with a shaker hood, pistol grip 4 speed and Cragar's cool factor. Never.  (Now, gotta walk my dog. Gonna grab a handful of Surefire M6, and burn some filament.) :bow: :thumbsup: :rock:


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## LED1982 (Feb 27, 2017)

sharpnails said:


> 7.) Health. Blue light from LEDS is unseen that can disturb sleep rhythms and possibly increase the risk of serious health conditions, including cancer and cardiovascular disease.



OMG give me a break!!!! I would love to know how many thing in life a person fears if they actually fear #7, wow!


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## ssanasisredna (Feb 28, 2017)

LED1982 said:


> OMG give me a break!!!! I would love to know how many thing in life a person fears if they actually fear #7, wow!



Are you implying the OP posted this at night, while sitting in front of a screen, while eating Cheetos?


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## Hugh Johnson (Feb 28, 2017)

Deleted.


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## flashfan (Feb 28, 2017)

For me, incan and LED peacefully coexist. Perhaps_ un_like many here, I prefer white light for determining color. Somehow, _my_ eyes see colors better in white light (eg I have a very difficult time distinguishing dark navy blue socks and black socks in incan lighting. Switch on the bright white light, whether it be fluorescent or LED, and the socks sort themselves!). When outdoors however, I generally prefer incan lights. LED lights look "flat" to me, and maybe I have the wrong lights, but LEDs just don't seem to have the reach of incan lights. Then again, I have _not_ experimented with warm tint LEDs--if I want warm white light, I just use incan.

Caveat. When I refer to incans, I generally mean Surefire caliber, whose xenon bulbs emit whiter light than some other types of incan lights. Light output that is too yellowy, or the awful green of early LEDs, is a definite no-no.


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## chillinn (Feb 28, 2017)

LED1982 said:


> OMG give me a break!!!! I would love to know how many thing in life a person fears if they actually fear #7, wow!



I would love to know if it's possible for dissenting opinions to have substance rather than ridicule. I doubt anyone 'fears' anything on the list, as there are few children browsing these forums. Contrary to your beliefs, the disruption of sleep rhythms, by any cause, is a major problem for tens of millions. It is a subtle cause that has major effects, and it is provable science. If you're going to dismiss something, have something to back up your opinion. Do you often have your sleep disrupted? Is this beneficial to you? We want to know.


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## LED1982 (Feb 28, 2017)

chillinn said:


> I would love to know if it's possible for dissenting opinions to have substance rather than ridicule. I doubt anyone 'fears' anything on the list, as there are few children browsing these forums. Contrary to your beliefs, the disruption of sleep rhythms, by any cause, is a major problem for tens of millions. It is a subtle cause that has major effects, and it is provable science. If you're going to dismiss something, have something to back up your opinion. Do you often have your sleep disrupted? Is this beneficial to you? We want to know.



I can't even remember making my post, fact - 15 beers disrupts both memory and sleep rhythms lol. I'm pretty sure that I probably saw this and thought about an LED flashlight that's only on rarely and also points away from you, a far cry from being underneath LED all day long. Rock on and don't mind the occasional drunk in here haha.

Edit, maybe I'm glad that I made that drunk post, I would have never even given any thought to changing out my LEDs throughout my house and garage, hmm...


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## ssanasisredna (Mar 1, 2017)

chillinn said:


> I would love to know if it's possible for dissenting opinions to have substance rather than ridicule. I doubt anyone 'fears' anything on the list, as there are few children browsing these forums. Contrary to your beliefs, the disruption of sleep rhythms, by any cause, is a major problem for tens of millions. It is a subtle cause that has major effects, and it is provable science. If you're going to dismiss something, have something to back up your opinion. Do you often have your sleep disrupted? Is this beneficial to you? We want to know.



Opinions are valid when discussing subjective qualities, i.e. what CCT do you prefer. "Opinions" don't really have much validity when discussing objective qualities, i.e. like whether blue light from LED flashlights is a valid health concern. There is an implied social contract when posting something online that one be "reasonable". Reasonable positions are usually met with reasonable responses. A reasonable position would be, "When I have to go to the washroom in the middle of the night, I don't like the high amount of blue in bright high CCT LED flashlights as I find it wakes me up too much." An unreasonable position would be to make the leap that LED flashlights cause cancer given the limited time of exposure, low dosage levels, and relative impact of LED flashlights to other artificial light sources, not to mention implying that excess blue light is unique to LED flashlights and the same for all of them.

Ridiculous positions, i.e. that the earth is flat, are often met with a comedic response as that is often viewed as the only valid response as to respond otherwise would give validity where it is not warranted.


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## bykfixer (Mar 3, 2017)

The earth isn't flat?


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## Tachead (Mar 4, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> The earth isn't flat?



No, it is square idiot. I think you had better quit using those blue LED's they may be disrupting your sleep cycles.


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## KITROBASKIN (Mar 4, 2017)

What a beautiful world: A complaint thread with hate in the title evolves into good times for all. (Still enjoying the 70's Hemi Cuda/burning-filament word picture)

I hate my mother-in-law's porch light; horrible use of white LED's. She knows now to leave it off when I come over, because I'm carrying a flashlight...


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## bykfixer (Mar 5, 2017)

Tachead said:


> No, it is square idiot. I think you had better quit using those blue LED's they may be disrupting your sleep cycles.



Blue LED's are cool.



Yes pun intended. 
Meanwhile back at the ranch..
I have a neighbor who has blue LED'd porch lights as a "blue lives matter" gesture. I asked "what's with the porch lights man?". He replied "Dude! I *haaaaayte* LED's. lol.


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## LED1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

KITROBASKIN said:


> What a beautiful world: A complaint thread with hate in the title evolves into good times for all. (Still enjoying the 70's Hemi Cuda/burning-filament word picture)
> 
> I hate my mother-in-law's porch light; horrible use of white LED's. She knows now to leave it off when I come over


Personally i hate the title of this thread!! And I hate my mother in law even more than you hate yours...come one man you don't just hate her porch lights! Haha, so fun to hate lol


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## nbp (Mar 6, 2017)

Let's keep this thread about flashlights and not mothers in law...


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## LED1982 (Mar 6, 2017)

nbp said:


> Let's keep this thread about flashlights and not mothers in law...



Sorry, and only kidding, far from hating my mother in law she is actually smoking hot. Since I'm guilty of the divergence I'll try to throw it back on track, to OP, ok I better understand that constant LED exposure is bad, but I was wondering, as far as flashlights go would you be a lot more excepting of warm LED flashlights? Like 4000K for instance?


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## KITROBASKIN (Mar 6, 2017)

I hate candles because they're smoking hot, and can burn your house down. 

Hey, let's take a bunch of pictures of hands that are smoking hot!


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## Tachead (Mar 6, 2017)

I hate torches. They always leave black spots on my living room ceiling after watching Game of Thrones.


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## wjv (Mar 6, 2017)

Most of my lights are LEDs. I prefer the neutral and warmer tints. Have a EagleTac with 219 Nichia LED that has a tint like a candle. The only place I really like the pure white lights is in the throwers. At 800 meters, the white adds more illumination and contrast and color isn't as important.

And a Floody LED light @1,000 lumens is nice when you are underground. . .


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## chillinn (Mar 7, 2017)

wjv said:


> Have a EagleTac with 219 Nichia LED that has a tint like a candle.



FYI Candlelight has a color temperature of about 1500K and is characteristically orange or yellow-orange in tint. You should try lighting a candle in a dark environment and actually comparing it to your 219 Nichia LED. You should then try an incan flashlight under the same circumstances (any old MagLite will do, but a Surefire incan will drive the point home), and compare its light to your 219 Nichia LED. Afterwards, you will never try to make this comparison again... because they don't compare. Nichia's 219b is probably the best LED available to the general consumer regarding tint, temperature and color rendition. But even the light from best LED pales (literally) in comparison to the light from a tungsten lamp driven within its design specifications. The whitest flashlight lamps are around 3500K (maybe some Xenon and HID are hotter and whiter?). They may exist, but I don't know of any manufacturer mass producing LED flashlights with a color temperature below 4000K. It's a good chance your 219 Nichia is a lot whiter and hotter color temperature than you realize. Or you were hyperbolizing, and I didn't catch on... mea culpa, hyperbolize away, I can't live without hyperbole, myself... not for a second, not ever.


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## ssanasisredna (Mar 7, 2017)

chillinn said:


> FYI Candlelight has a color temperature of about 1500K and is characteristically orange or yellow-orange in tint.



Closer to 1800K, but depends on the wax. Beeswax burns a bit hotter.




chillinn said:


> You should then try an incan flashlight under the same circumstances (any old MagLite will do, but a Surefire incan will drive the point home), and compare its light to your 219 Nichia LED. Afterwards, you will never try to make this comparison again... because they don't compare.



Is that new batteries in the Incan? Old batteries? I have LEDs both cooler and warmer than an incan ran at rated voltage. 




chillinn said:


> But even the light from best LED pales (literally) in comparison to the light from a tungsten lamp driven within its design specifications.



Which "best" LED? Lumileds T(X) at 90+ (typically 95) CRI, 2700/3000K? Yuji high CRI? Osram 90CRI 2200K ... which one?

I will guarantee I could light two rooms, one with incan, one with high CRI LEDs and you will not know which is which. Heck, I will even PWM the LEDs at high frequency.




chillinn said:


> They may exist, but I don't know of any manufacturer mass producing LED flashlights with a color temperature below 4000K.



Could it be that they are catering to what the market wants?

Armytek and Nitecore come to mind, I am sure others make 3000K lights.





chillinn said:


> best LED pales (literally) in comparison to the light from a tungsten lamp driven within its design specifications.



... There I go again, wearing dark blue socks with a black suit ...


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## Jim Bonney (Apr 17, 2017)

LEDs got me into the flashlight game. Fenix's in particular. Now the only LED lights I have that I like are my Prometheus Beta with a 219A and my Alpha with the MCE 4500k. Even still, I want an Incan Alpha. I recently picked up a Surefire M6 which is an awesome Incan powerhouse. I also think I want another E1E to go with my E2. With rechargables I just find incan lights 'more better.' LED technology is awesome but I see incandescent lights as the true enthusiast product these days.


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## bykfixer (Apr 17, 2017)

Incan Alpha... Alpha Incan... either way it has a nice ring to it. 

Just had the pleasure of being taxi'd home from a repair shop in a mint 1963 Pontiac Ventura with a 6 pack. No power anything except the gas pedal. Reminded me of this thread as there were (2) two of those "atomic" flashlights on the passenger seat when I got in. Dude says "$12, and geez are they bright". lol


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## Jim Bonney (Apr 17, 2017)

I love reading your thread on resurrecting vintage lights. You have some of the coolest lights I've ever seen.


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## bykfixer (Apr 18, 2017)

Well garsh! 
I'm blushing. 

I need to get back on those Eveready Soldier Boys and get them working proper. I can get them both to light, but neither switch on/off correctly. 

So next rainy day I will set still long enough to finish the soldier boys and post the how to at the "restore" thread.

In the meantime my LED's and Incans coexist peacefully. I still find the 4C Mag with a 3 cell krypton one of my favorites. And the ML25's with a 4 cell bi-pin, fueled by 2 x 1850's is a goody too. 




The 2C Eveready/Daylo Soldier Boys.
(Fore = enlisted version; Aft = officer version)


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## iamlucky13 (Apr 24, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> Incan Alpha... Alpha Incan... either way it has a nice ring to it.



It would be a great idea to make a harness for mounting that light to a small llama, for navigating the treacherous footpaths of the Andes at night. I could imagine carrying ceremonial supplies to an ancient South American temple that way.

It would be an Incan alpaca with incan Alphas carrying aloe incense.


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## Wattnot (Apr 24, 2017)

The OP should go to the TRADE section and make a deal with me for my 1000 lumen INCAN Hotwire light I've been trying to sell for almost a decade.


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## LimeJellyBean (Jul 16, 2017)

I sympathize with the OP completely. I too hate LED and I'm beginning to hate the old friend Fluorescent.

I import all of mine off eBay from the UK where people are really picky about their bulbs. (I'm in Australia.)

I have incandescent halogen GLS all throughout the house.
for working areas I use 116w halogen GLS (such as a laundry, shed, carport, soldering station.)
for bedrooms I use 72w halogen GLS frosted
for my small personal bathroom I use 33w halogen GLS
for kitchens and the main bathroom I use 35w 12v halogen downlight

and something that you may be shocked to know, I use *4x 35 watt 12v halogen downlights with aluminium reflectors* for my 2 foot aquarium

I find that the color rendition is perfect for my 40+ guppies and neon tetras and snails and for growing plants with CO2 injection.

*Pics of my aquarium from beginning to current setup*:
https://imgur.com/a/pklHj

The warm glow of the aquarium doesn't hurt my eyes anymore like it used to with the T5HO globes. 
I spend a lot of time indoors because of a back injury so this is very important to me.

my mother has a 2 foot aquarium aswell and she uses my old 4x T5HO globes. 2x 6500k and 2x10,000k.

Needless to say I have no intention of ever moving away from incandescent lights. Mainly because it costs me nothing to run them because I have a 3kW solar power system installed on the roof but also because they are the best light source for any purpose. And 18650's ever increasing battery capacity makes it completely pointless to not use them for flashlights. I regularly use my three WF-501B's with 3.7v incan ebay retrofits all of the time. My only LED flashlight a Fenix E25UE sits unused because not only does it need two expensive Eneloop Pros it also needs regular charging recharging AND the light that it generates is too washed out and hurts my eyes even on its lowest setting. Because like every other human being on the planet my eyes are designed for the color spectrum output of the sun, and not a 'perfect' linear white light source.

I also find that it is much more difficult and takes longer to identify items in my pantry when I'm using a LED light source and the roof light thats in that room is a 116w halogen, I can see things perfectly fine with that. Plenty of warm white light.

I grew up on Incan and I'll die with incan light sources around me.


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## Minimoog (Jul 17, 2017)

The biggest 'problem' with incan is the yellowing of the beam as the batteries fade. This is not a problem to me as I see it as a warning that the batteries are starting to fade, but it is the main reason why LED is much more popular - people don't want sick looking lights. Sadly, manufacturers never bothered regulating their lights but as ready built regulators are available for $1 now I add them to lights that will take them for a much better experience. Bulbs don't like the varying voltage from fresh to flat batteries as they are only being driven correctly for a few seconds per run - and this shortens their life - as does the hit to the cold filament from fresh batteries.

I prefer incan to LED but most production incan lights are pretty rubbish as stock.


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## ssanasisredna (Jul 17, 2017)

LimeJellyBean said:


> Because like every other human being on the planet my eyes are designed for the color spectrum output of the sun, and not a 'perfect' linear white light source.



Now if only, at any point in the day, the sun (or moonlight) had a spectrum anything at all like a halogen light, perhaps this statement would bring weight to the rest of the argument. However, neither sunlight, nor moonlight, nor anything that regularly burns in nature, has a spectrum like a halogen bulb, so what evolutionary benefit is there to our eyes adapting to halogen??


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## ssanasisredna (Jul 17, 2017)

LimeJellyBean said:


> for working areas I use 116w halogen GLS (such as a laundry, shed, carport, *soldering station*.



The lack of sufficient blue in the spectrum will not cause your pupils to close fully. This reduces your depth perception and generally makes for poorer focus.


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## Bourbon City (Jul 17, 2017)

As part of my Continuing Education requirements, I took a class on Maintenance of Traffic during Highway/Bridge Construction. In that Class I learned that approximately every 18 years the amount of light the human eye perceives is cut in half. As I became older I think that statement is true. I find that I must have lights on in my home if I want to find something, that or use a torch. 

I find myself using a torch many times during the day. I also find that I do not like black objects. They are extremely hard for me to find without a torch. I use my torches on low or medium depending on the torch I have at hand.

Almost all my torches are Cool White. I do have a couple of Natural White.


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