# Maglite Forever Fashlight Poll



## ama230 (May 21, 2010)

Hello gals and guys,

I am an electrical engineer from A.S.U. in Arizona that has tons of experience with alternative energy technologies and was going to see if there are some potential customers on my custom light. I have one built right now as this was a senior project and has turned out better than anticipated. I had made this custom light to make and advance smart charger for the caps that was run by a microcontroller to tell the stages of charge by led indication. But that was an expensive one-of. This light just uses a basic charger that is still awesome but you have to go by time(10min) rather than the expensive charger that I made but could make another one if wanted but this works just as well but is a little slower as the charger runs at [email protected] I can get these cheap at fry's so that's why I use them and also they come with all types of plugs and you can vary the voltage as well(reverse polarity, the whole bit)

First off the power plant will be two [email protected] Maxwell so they are the best ones available....

Second will be a 600plus lumen light engine....
This is 36 Nichia GS k1's @ 40000Mcd(Newest and Brightest Bin guaranteed!!!)

Third will be the charger and misc hardware....
This will be the charger and connector put in the tail of the light.(3.5mm Headphone jack recessed so its flush with the cap, so it can still tail stand.)Other variations are up for discussion and use. Then wiring and other components. You can choose a car charger or home or both.

Performance:It slowly decreases as the cells are dumping the electrons. Ultracaps have about the same power density as a AA battery, just in a bigger form factor. Everything on this light is environmentally safe and could be 100% recycled.

800lumens @ 30+ minutes @ 5.4v

400Lumens @ 30+ minutes @ 2.7v

Charge time is 10minutes, could be faster but they cost more if wanted. Could be as little as 2min.

Never have to take the light apart to change or fix anything for 500K cycles.(1 cycle = 1charge and 1 Discharge)

Lighter than a [email protected] vs. 25ounces with regular or rechargeable batteries.

Do not need to adjust head as this thing rocks. Focusing is not needed on this light so that adds to the simplicity.

No thermal management problems as the light stays cooler than your hand as the led array sits in the head with great contact. The head is screwed all the way in for maximum strength and durability and never needs to be adjusted.

It will come ready to run and the option is up for using your own 2dcell light or 3cell(cost a little more for an extra ultracap) and more if requested.

Cost will be in the hundred dollar range +/-10 bucks. 80+/-bucks if it's your own light. I would love to see the machined ones that have grooves in it as this would be the ultimate ultimate mag lite.


Anybody that would like this done let me know or even if this would be of interest on here as this is far from mainstream. This is also something that does not heat up the light as the head and light assembly are in perfect harmony. Service men (Cops, firemen and military) could still use this as a weapon as it still is solid and will not break. Not temperature effect as the extremes do not harm the caps. 

So let me know if this is of interest to you guys and gals...

This will meet and exceed expectations as this will never need to be maintained or replaced for at least the 10k hrs of the led's. Show some love for the affordable light saber. As I can guarantee everything on this light as i will replace anything that goes wrong. 

Disclaimer:
All sourced items are from the highest quality and when putting it together there is only the finest quality. This could be a perfect, one of light that no one will have or will get. I am here to stay and hope I can get the credit or props around here starting with this build as I can divert my abilities and get the opportunity to do such a great alternative project. Heck you can mount this to a dune buggy or sand rail or off road truck and will do better than any KC light(without the mosquitoes...)

I have extensive knowledge in thermoelectric devices and advanced power storage systems and led lighting so there will be no quality control problems. I have 10 years experience with five in the field and this is not my first project. AC/DC systems are first knowledge so this is no prank. I am not trying to be cocky but I wanted to let you know what my experience is.

Thanks a lot for your interest as all comments and questions are welcome...
Eric Ramirez


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## kramer5150 (May 21, 2010)

22.2 Lumens from each Nichia... how reliable are they when driven that hard, and how stable is the color tint?

Got any pics?:thumbsup:


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## ama230 (May 21, 2010)

Here is a pick of the 48led module that is really doing 800+lumens and is working off 18v but the maglite is a smidge less bright. As you can see the tint is pure white with no artifacts with lots of spill. I will be doing a review of the maglite one in the next day but this gives you a good idea of output. 

Oh yeah also the beam on the right is a maglite xl100 with a cool beam from the rebel 090 with three tenergy AAA's @ 1000mah(85lumens). Then the right is the icon 2 rogue with a cree that is rather warm with two tenergy 2600mah AA's(100lumens).

The nichias are good for 10000hrs and they are not going to fade if driven a little more than 15lumens. Testers on here have proven that. Then the tint is pure white as i have not seen a light with this quality of beam. 

Hope this helps, oh yeah also to compare this thing is equal if not more to two headlights on a vehicle and good headlights. Let me know if there are any more questions or comments as i will get back to you. Hope you like the pics as these were with not any night exposure or any trickery.
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/8-18v nichia k1 48 led module/IMAG0145.jpg


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## Jash (May 22, 2010)

Don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but there are a few guys here who know how to make a thumping good mag drop-in. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/252279


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## Norm (May 22, 2010)

Jash said:


> Don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but there are a few guys here who know how to make a thumping good mag drop-in.


I think what Eric is offering falls into an entirely different category, I for one am very interested.
Norm


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## LEDninja (May 22, 2010)

The 5.11 Tactical costs $169.99 at lapolicegear.
I believe it uses similar technology.

-

My concern is the use of 5 mm arrays. 5 mm LEDs have an insulating air bubble in front of the LED die and another one behind. This traps the heat in the LED which kills it. Arrays are worse as instead of cooling air around it, there are a bunch of equally hot LEDs.
Nichia tests their LEDs singly in a controlled environment (I read that as a nice cool 20°C-25°C). Flashlights get used in hot summer nights. With most of the inside LEDs in an array not able to dump heat to the rather warm air they just burn out.
For 800 lumens you will have to get rid of 10 watts of heat. If the flashlight body or head does not get hot that means the heat is trapped inside cooking the LEDs.
There have been many reports on CPF of 5 mm arrays in both flashlights and fixed lighting bulbs burning out in 2-3 weeks instead of the claimed 100000 hours. As a result most CPF members just don't trust 5 mm arrays.
That is probably why Jash linked to a thread that uses MC-E LEDs. The power LED dies are connected directly to its backplate which is attached to a heatsink connecting the LED to the flashlight body. Heat gets sucked away to the flashlight body and dumped into the surrounding air fast.

-

My other concern is the runtime. If I dropped something under my desk I reach for the 1AA flashlight in my pocket. If I go for a walk in the woods, I'd want more than 30 minutes. My walk with the Toronto GTA CPF members took 1-1/2 hours. Custom flashlight maker Elektrolumens claims LEOs always ask for 2 hours minimum runtime.
_Think you have a typo
800lumens @ 30+ minutes
400Lumens @ 30+ minutes
Same runtime for both outputs?_


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## netprince (May 22, 2010)

This would be great in a mag-charger, which would always leave it charged and ready to go...

Also, use a cree xpg or phlatlight sst50, and it would be awesome.

Or perhaps just provide the powerplant as a kit and allow us to build the rest of the light?

This does sound like a neat idea, I hope it gets built. I may still be interested in the current design once more runtime/beamshots/specs are provided.


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## ama230 (May 22, 2010)

Jash said:


> Don't want to burst your bubble or anything, but there are a few guys here who know how to make a thumping good mag drop-in.
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/252279



i am not using a power led drop in because everyone has one. If you read my description of what i am building this in no way is the same. MINE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Try reading before you post, please.

Thank you


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## kramer5150 (May 22, 2010)

I think many people missed this keypoint...

"*First off the power plant will be two [email protected] Maxwell so they are the best ones available....*"

interesting...:thumbsup:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=MAXWELL+capacitor&No=25&FS=True

Please do post more pictures Eric. I think a ~10 minute charge time would appeal to many.


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## ama230 (May 22, 2010)

LEDninja said:


> The 5.11 Tactical costs $169.99 at lapolicegear.
> I believe it uses similar technology.
> 
> -
> ...



As i said as this thing does not get hot as the head and led unit are touching so thermal management is not a problem. Are you just skimming through the post to bash it or what. I am a professional that knows what's going on and this is not a superglue and duct tape project. From what I see is that you DO NOT understand what i am doing so please move on to another thread.

This does use the same technology 5.11 is using without a fancy charger as it does not require one. The outputs are because of the light are going from 6v to .7v, as the brightness will fade with depleting power. I do not use google to get my knowledge as I mess with this stuff everyday and this is my profession(HINT: I AM AN ELECTRICAL ENGINEER). The light falls to a minimum of 400lumens so this thing does not get dim. It goes through different stages as this is not a form of chemical reaction, think of a storage tank(for water) with a small hole in it. The electrons are just let go to whatever the load is. 

Please in future posts i am looking for comments and questions rather than this thing CAN NOT do this and that. I have tested it in and out and there is NOTHING WRONG. Others in the past of course have no experience or knowledge of what they are doing and PLEASE do not compare me to them as I AM A PROFESSIONAL not an amateur. My post is all facts and no gimmick.

Also why doesn't a photon freedom get hot then. I guess the plastic is the heat sink and will burn up in a couple of days. Photon should check into it as I do not think they know what they are doing. COME ON..... GET REAL.

If this isn't of interest then.....
Please move on to another post.....:thumbsup:


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## ama230 (May 22, 2010)

netprince said:


> This would be great in a mag-charger, which would always leave it charged and ready to go...
> 
> Also, use a cree xpg or phlatlight sst50, and it would be awesome.
> 
> ...



I am not going to use a power led as I am doing something completely different. The kit thing seems like a great idea and for liability reasons, these need to be handled with care when assembled. I do not think 5.11 is going to a DIY kit as this is a rather new technology even though its been around for 20+ years.

I will be posting pics of it when it get dark tonight so you can see whats going on. Thanks for your interest and constructive comments.


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## ama230 (May 22, 2010)

kramer5150 said:


> I think many people missed this keypoint...
> 
> "*First off the power plant will be two [email protected] Maxwell so they are the best ones available....*"
> 
> ...



The place where i source my materials is not mouser. But still is a good find thanks for pointing that out. I will be doing a extensive review of specs/ beam shots and run time. Thanks for your interest as I aim to please and maybe blow your mind...


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## Simon520 (May 22, 2010)

How about posting some pics and stats of the power source?


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## ama230 (May 22, 2010)

Simon520 said:


> How about posting some pics and stats of the power source?


 If i show you id have to kill you... just kidding. I will post pics tonight. Thanks for your interest.


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## Jash (May 22, 2010)

ama230 said:


> i am not using a power led drop in because everyone has one. If you read my discription of what i am building this in now way is the same. MINE IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. Try reading before you post, please.
> 
> Thank you




I read your post several times as I couldn't actually believe what I was reading. You want people to fork out close to $100 for a light that has declining output, poor tuntime and requires high maintenance (needs charging every 30 minutes).
Don't assume that everyone who questions your design is stupid. That's arrogant and will win you no support.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you know what you're doing. It's just that here on CPF, people generally want the most reliable output along with the most runtime in a package that is both simple and tough. 

There are probably situations where your light is an effective tool, but there are also lights that would serve that purpose equally if not better, 
eg. http://www.batteryjunction.com/terralux-tle-300-mr-ex.html


FWIW, I got a 4D mag with a SSC P7 that pumps 400otf lumens for about two hours and takes 90 mins to charge. I built it myself and cost about $100 including batteries and charger.

Good luck with your project though. Who knows, with a little more development you could end up being one of the sought after modders. It's early days.


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## DM51 (May 22, 2010)

ama230... your post #10 above is quite astonishingly intemperate, rude, and uncalled for. 

You need to show more respect to others. If you are going to fly off the handle whenever someone questions you, you will not last long here. 

Please edit that post to tone it down and remove the rude and abrasive comments.


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## ama230 (May 22, 2010)

Jash said:


> I read your post several times as I couldn't actually believe what I was reading. You want people to fork out close to $100 for a light that has declining output, poor run time and requires high maintenance (needs charging every 30 minutes).
> Don't assume that everyone who questions your design is stupid. That's arrogant and will win you no support.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I believe you know what you're doing. It's just that here on CPF, people generally want the most reliable output along with the most run time in a package that is both simple and tough.
> ...



I can guaranteed that the tint of my light has better quality with no artifacts and is 100% pure white light. There is not going to be a light out there that can beat the color of the nichia gs k1. I do not think that 50% of the market uses nichia for no reason. There is no power led so there is no cool tint or warm tint,its just crazy white.

This does not have any fancy modes and still uses to super reliable UI of the maglite. If the light was designed for 600+lumens then it would run just shy of 400lumens when it goes below the .7v of the Vf. But this is a little more output then it will go to 400lumens before going lower than the Vf of a diode.

I understand that the run time is poor but then again the 50-60lumens that i had it originally had it for, lasted 8hrs but it was very dim and thought this was impractical.

High performance, safety and reliability was the design i was going for. there are thousands of people that have the same light you have and that was what i was not going for because anybody can do it and its not really anything special. I can get the parts from Deal extreme and make the same light you have for fifty bucks including the cost of the maglite. Then again this requires you to disassemble the light and this again was what i was not going for. 

This is a buy, use, recharge,use, recharge for 500k cycles and leave it alone light. Also you can still use this as a hammer when you are stuck in the desert with a broke down vehicle. You can not break it unless you take it apart. As when this is put together, dis assembly is not required.

As with all technologies you have to make some sacrifices(give and take). I thought i made the best of what I am using. :twothumbs


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## ama230 (May 22, 2010)

netprince said:


> This would be great in a mag-charger, which would always leave it charged and ready to go...
> 
> Also, use a cree xpg or phlatlight sst50, and it would be awesome.
> 
> ...



I would love to do this in a mag charger beacuse this would not require any machining of the body for charging port. If you could send me one i will happily make it a mag charger super duper bad ace light.:twothumbs


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## Jash (May 22, 2010)

Question time,

Is the light engine a sole unit that replaces the bulb/reflector in a mag that can be operated from other power sources? Like 4 D size ni-mh batteries.

And if it could, what runtime could one expect from 4 10k mah Accupowers?

If this is a possibility, what would the cost be for just the light engine?


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## ama230 (May 22, 2010)

Thirty bucks plus shipping. This replaces the reflector and sits in the head and just tighten the head all the way down as tight as it will go. I will post pictures here in a bit. Thanks for your interest...:thumbsup:


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## jimmy1970 (May 22, 2010)

Is this a 36 5mm led array sitting flat against a silver backing like other multi led "shower head" style lights?

If so, the light may well provide 700+ lumens but it has to be remembered that a light of this type will have limited throw. There is a reason many makers use a single high power emitter sunken right back into a deep reflector to provide substantial throw.

I would not want to lug around a 2-3 D cell maglite if the light couldn't throw across a field for instance.

A kit that would provide a single emitter e.g. MC-E in a deep reflector e.g Fenix TK40 drop in style unit together with the super cap cells with suitable charging connectors etc would be an interesting proposal particularly if it offered good regulation and maybe 2-3 output levels.

If I could get the above arrangement pumping out 700+ lumens with good throw running on super caps, I would definately be interested!!

James....


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## ama230 (May 23, 2010)

Ok here is guys and gals:

I wanted to start first off explaining what I did and what is going on. I did this in the complete dark but this camera I have takes ok night shots far away. Its a cheap camera but was able to do a better job than anticipated. I have a house next door and it was over a football field away to show the tremendous throw without an optic.

The first shots are of the light itself as it looks awesome:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0165.jpg

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0163.jpg

Here is the cheap plug setup as I had slapped the first one together with the little selection at the local frys. I would like to use a 3.5mm jack to make it flush with the tail cap in the future:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0164.jpg
As you can see this light is about 20yrs old as this was my dads and I wanted a good donor. 

Then here is a couple pictures of the light on:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0166.jpg

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0167.jpg

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0168.jpg

Then here is the charger setup by itself:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0171.jpg

Then here is the light next to the Icon Rogue 2aa with two tenergy 2600mah AA's:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0172.jpg
As you can see this thing is beat up and has had a hard life

Then here is the wall shots for comparison of the beam and tint. The icon is a cool greenish tint that is known with the cree led. The 36led maglite on the left and the icon on the right. Icon is 100lumens on high and the maglite is 600plus lumens:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0169.jpg

Then here is the same setup but with the icon in the middle of the maglite's beam to show how intensely white it is. As you can see the icon is lost in the white light:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0170.jpg

Then saved the best for last... The house next door is a football field away and had a hard time with getting the camera to take a descent night shot. I did not mess with the setting i just had to take a few to get the camera to adjust itself:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0157.jpg

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0159.jpg

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0160.jpg

Then here is a shot is with an object that is 50meters away:
http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0161.jpg

Then here is an object that is 10meters away:

http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/ktm230/Maglite 36 led Nichia GS k1 module/IMAG0162.jpg

This light can easily double a football field with some flood which is a great combination without any optics to help. The nichias are awesome and had exceeded expectations and ill try in the next day to get better night shots with the beam comparison.

Let me know what you think i could do better as far as for comparison. I am an amateur photographer so there is needed improvement so props to others that have better shots as its harder than it looks.

Thanks again for your interest and please add comments or questions as ill gladly answer any queries you might have.

Thank You,
Eric Ramirez

_Over sized images changed to links_


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## ama230 (May 23, 2010)

Jash said:


> Question time,
> 
> Is the light engine a sole unit that replaces the bulb/reflector in a mag that can be operated from other power sources? Like 4 D size ni-mh batteries.
> 
> ...



The run time with the awesome batteries you have would give it at least 4 plus hours. I would say 5 solid hours but i do not have any rechargeables to test that are that big. It would probably go longer but i am doing a safe estimate. Also the engine goes from 2-6 D cells so the voltage can vary from 3v-9v, so a lithium would be even better for run time. Since a Dcell @ 10ah has 6 times the power density of one of my ultracaps, the light would easily run 6hrs but with four, who knows how long it would last, maybe years with it on. :laughing: Just kidding... But run time would not be an issue. Also this is not temperature sensitive as they use these things in satellites for power storage for the last 20years in sub zero temps. The here in Arizona its 120F plus. So batteries are kind of dangerous out here as a car battery is luck to last a year or two without bulging from exhausted cells. Even optima batteries are sweating out here, so its nuts.:devil:


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## fyrstormer (May 23, 2010)

The design as stated in Post 1 needs some revision. Nichia GS LEDs are the most efficient 5mm thru-hole LEDs on the market, but surface-mount LEDs are still better overall. I have a little AAA flashlight using a Cree XP-E LED running at ~50mA that runs cool enough it needs no heatsinking, and it puts the Nichia GS to shame. There's a reason the big manufacturers are all dumping their thru-hole LED designs nowadays. You can have a much smaller array of surface-mount LEDs using the same power as your Nichia GS array and it will be brighter and have better color rendition at the same time.

Might not want to introduce yourself to a new community by telling them all how you know more than they do about their topic of focus. "I'M A PROFESSIONAL" too, as are most everyone else here, in one field or another. The new guy ALWAYS kisses *** at first no matter how smart he is.


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## ama230 (May 23, 2010)

These leds require no optics as its already part of the nichia characteristics. I am not saying i am smarter than anyone but have to keep reminding some that general characteristics(thermal management, tint, run time and design) are more than well taken care of. 

If I wanted to use a cree of rebel or osram or etc, I would have but what would make this different? I am not trying to copy as I am introducing something completely different. Many of the lights on here are the same with a different power leds. This is a clean artifact free light that requires no optics to help it. Then also this 100% recyclable, environmentally friendly and bullet proof. Also it will last longer than you and me and all you would have to do is slap another led module in it when 10k hours are up. Maintainace free and worry free. KISS is a great concept and that's what is being offered.

Good luck on trying to find a power led with a tint this white as it's going to be expensive and require an expensive orange peel reflector. The only thing that could be improved it the pastic lens as i would love a glass or sapphire AR lens, as mine is 20yrs old and scratched a hued.

I am not trying to be mean or prove anybody wrong or compare wits. I am trying to stand my ground which is hard to do. I know i have to do time to get respect so its not a problem but its hard to tolerate comments with no substance.

Thanks for your interest:
Eric


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## crizyal (May 23, 2010)

What would you expect the cost to be for you light with a 10 minute charge time?


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## kramer5150 (May 23, 2010)

Suggestions:
-Camera with manually set exposures (a MUST HAVE when comparing lights of differing lumen output).
-Camera tri-pod, or a way to hold it steady 
-Other lights of known Lumen output, with which to compare. Fenix TK40+eneloops would be my suggestion, its been measured at 550L and is a good design based around the Cree MCE + OP reflector against which you seen to be competing.

In terms of output and beam pattern I really dont see anything special in your beamshots. We have seen other DIY lights accomplish the same thing, or very similar.

You should be aware that warm/neutral tint MCEs are readily available in the 3000~6500 kelvin range, Ledl boom reflectors commonly used in CPF DIY circles are not expensive, neither are MAG Aluminum OP reflectors. You dont need luck to find them... just a google search:thumbsup:. A lot of DIY'ers are using the SST-50 in mag hosts and hitting 600+ Lumens OTF (some as much as 1000L).

I DO like the idea of power caps instead of traditional cells, thats something different and I think your example is the first DIY use of them as a power source.

I also suggest you send it to CPFer bigchelis so he can lock & load it in his sphere of truth. Lumen measurement in a calibrated sphere is the only way to accurately measure Lumen output. I have been both surprised and disappointed by many of my lights (some DIY). As a fellow engineer, separating fact from fiction (while removing the element of emotion and bias) is a way of life... and in my case a career.

Suggestion to moderators... maybe relocate this thread to the DIY forum?


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## ama230 (May 23, 2010)

crizyal said:


> What would you expect the cost to be for you light with a 10 minute charge time?



$110(Flashlight and charger) This is me cutting even on everything but if there were more than a handful that wanted such a light, the cost would go down 10 or twenty bucks.


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## ama230 (May 23, 2010)

I AM NOT GOING TO COPY OR DO SOMETHING THE SAME AS ITS NOT A CHALLENGE. THIS IS MY DESIGN AND HAVING SOMETHING THAT'S 100%
ENVIRONMENTALLY SAFE AND IS AN ALTERNATIVE POWER SOURCE.:thumbsup:

Why do you keep saying that here is something better or this and that. I know what is out there and these are DIY, this is not. Its a buy and leave it alone light. This is very appealing to these who want a leave it alone flashlight. Also, it does not support wasteful power storage technologies.

This is not a mainstream technology as it does nt have the R&D batteries have. Batteries have been meeting and exceeding our power hungry devices and this has allowed the power density to surpass ultracaps. Its a give and take and there is nothing like them as they are only aluminum foil with an electrolyte in them. No dangerous chemicals, just clean simple fun technology from aliens... Thought i would add some suspense...


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## kramer5150 (May 23, 2010)

My reply is a response to this (your) incorrect statement, which couldn't be farther from the truth...

"_Good luck on trying to find a power led with a tint this white as it's going to be expensive and require an expensive orange peel reflector._"


If you are not trying to challenge existing technologies then you should not be discrediting them. That is why members have been quick to point out your incorrect assumptions.

There is nothing new or revolutionary about your _optical _design. Its nothing more than a showerhead type design fitted into a mag bezel. In essence you are copying other designs... from an optics standpoint.


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## kramer5150 (May 23, 2010)

Google searching "fusion 4536" (silkscreened on your LED PCBA).

I found this...
http://www.sinounion.com.hk/product2.htm


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## MrGman (May 23, 2010)

The title stated this was a "poll" I don't see a poll question set up. If you are asking in general for people to express whether they are interested in this set up as is, yea or nay, I vote nay. 

I am sure its as reliable as you say it is but have no need for a 30 minute maximum runtme showerhead type light with dwindling output.


Now from what I have read of your posts you seem to have a bit of a temper and attitude problem and don't really take criticism well, but if you can bite you lip for a minute I will say this.

The idea of you packaging and marketing a super cap power source in the maglite shell that people can buy and use as their environmentally safe rechargeable power source for their own choice of drop in light does sound appealing. If you put in a regulator driver board to provide say 4 watts, or 6 watts or 8 or 10 watts as a sealed from the bottom up light host and then the customers just drop in the light source of their choosing to match the power option they purchased that would be a very good option.

A person could ask for you to build the supercap unit with a driver head to run an XPG type LED with a controlled 1.2 or 1.4 amp driver as one example. You provide the maglight housing with the supercaps and driver all well built and sealed up and the 10 minute charger, and they have a never need battery reliable driver source for the LED of their choosing in that particular driven power range.

Or a different driver to provide 2.5A so they could run an SST-50 or an MC-E or P7 as a different example. 

Having a supercap source that constantly dwindles down and the output that dwindles down with it is not appealing to me and from what I have seen on CPF a lot of other people. But there are plenty of regulator drivers out there, I am sure you could find one or design one that would be suitable and reliable and have a super cap ultra reliable power source for those of us who actually do what an alternative to batteries but want to put in the LED that we choose. If you sealed up my unit so I couldn't get into it but it came with a serious warranty, I would be more than happy to leave it alone and just use it as oppposed to always having to tinker with it just for the sake of tinkering.

If you say but drivers waste a percentage of power and I don't want to do it, then you are really missing a large potential opportunity and customer base. As their are those of us who want steady state regulated power with a 2 hour runtime and not constantly dwindling down energy. 

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.


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## John_Galt (May 23, 2010)

kramer5150 said:


> Google searching "fusion 4536" (silkscreened on your LED PCBA).
> 
> I found this...
> http://www.sinounion.com.hk/product2.htm



Interesting... So other than the capacitor based power source, how is this worth $110?

Also, you might want to cut it out with the snide attitude. People with that type of attitude don't last long here.

--------------------------------------
Also, your beamshots are nothing special. A cold white P7/MC-Ewith an orange peel reflector and a light diffuser film on the lens will produce better flood and throw. 

Company's are dropping the 5mmLED for a reason. They are inefficient, when compared to high output LED's and do NOT last as long as advertised. 

You also fall into the trap of many other noobs, when you state that heat-sinking isn't an issue because the body of the light doesn't get hot. That means that the heat the LED's produce is not, in fact, being moved from the LED's to the outside, allowing the LED's to be cooled, and therefore run more efficiently. 

"Your" 'brand-spankin'-new-off-the-wall-design' is neither impressive (to me) nor original.


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## ama230 (May 23, 2010)

I give up as the FUN POLICE are nagging me to death:whoopin:. Ill just be responding to comments and questions.:twothumbs


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## ama230 (May 23, 2010)

Norm said:


> I think what Eric is offering falls into an entirely different category, I for one am very interested.
> Norm



Thanks norm as you can see what the object of the game here is. I have two that are interested so far. Please keep going as i would love to squeeze out ten of these to the limited few who are interested.:thumbsup:


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## Jash (May 23, 2010)

kramer5150 said:


> Google searching "fusion 4536" (silkscreened on your LED PCBA).
> 
> I found this...
> http://www.sinounion.com.hk/product2.htm




Hahahaha! Did you read the 'Engrish' on that site. 

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"You can found the overall design is still behind the curve."[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]Flamin hilarious!

I bit the bullet on one of those shower head drop ins ($23 delivered) for an old incan mag I got lying around. Will run it off a couple of LSD D's and throw it in the car for emergencies. Whatever kind of emergency that would require such a beast.


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## LEDninja (May 23, 2010)

Sinounion still exists?
Bought some of their screw based and PR2 bulbs 6 or 7 years ago. Haven't heard anything about them since.


kramer5150 said:


> Google searching "fusion 4536" (silkscreened on your LED PCBA).
> 
> I found this...
> http://www.sinounion.com.hk/product2.htm



How did you order? I had a terrible time navigating the site.


Jash said:


> I bit the bullet on one of those shower head drop ins ($23 delivered) for an old incan mag I got lying around. Will run it off a couple of LSD D's and throw it in the car for emergencies. Whatever kind of emergency that would require such a beast.



Back on topic.

The OP offered the light in 800 and 400 lumen versions.

kramer5150 pointed out each LED need to output 22.2 lumens (at 800 lumens). That is too high and I start to worry about the heat destroying the LEDs. _(see posts 2 & 6)_

Having slept on it I realized at 400 lumens each LED only need to output 11.1 lumens. That is very close to the current Arc AAA Premium or Fenix E-01 output. So the LEDs in this Magmod might last as long as in those 2 lights if set up for 400 lumens only.


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## kramer5150 (May 23, 2010)

ama230 said:


> I give up as the FUN POLICE are nagging me to death:whoopin:. Ill just be responding to comments and questions.:twothumbs



This is a technical gear discussion forum. Be prepared to discuss the technical details. If posting fiction and BS is your idea of fun, you'd be better off posting elsewhere.

I still think its an interesting and very unique concept... and worthy of further development. Can your mag host accept one of these? It would make a great emergency light... 10 minute charge, long run times and all.

You should also be aware that the Frys panel mount DC input you are using on your tailcap is not very reliable. I went through 3 of them before I found a reliable one for my DIY headphone amp.


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## Jash (May 23, 2010)

LEDninja said:


> Sinounion still exists?
> 
> 
> How did you order? I had a terrible time navigating the site.




I got on fleabay. The time has now expired but they had two modules left so don't worry, I think they'll post them again. After all, they need to sell stuff to stay in business.

When it arrives I'll post some comparison shots with my Mag P7.


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## ama230 (May 23, 2010)

The led unit is guaranteed by the manufacturer and the Asians sure know how to make great stuff(HONDA, TOYOTA, NISSAN). 

The unit I have built had the nite ize upgrade that has the best run time but this is only 50lumens. It ran for 8plus hours on this bulb but I was going for a little more power sacrificing run time.

Then the send one is from nite ize and it was a 1w but it only ran for three hours at 60-70lumens. This bulb had terrible tint as it was very warm like a incandescent. Nothing against incandescent but it just not the white that I wanted from the beam.

Then as to get one of the modules, I would like to see someone with experience with photography do a real comparison as I only have a 100lumen light for my brightest thrower. So something in the 200 lumen range would be great.

As for the led's on this unit, they are not driven that hard as these are the latest bin that photon has yet to put in their lights. These are the best bin I have seen yet to date so that's what got me excited to see very little purple and yellow in the outside of the beam, but this lets me know its a for sure NICHIA.:huh:

It does not get hot as everyone presumes and if it did the color would drastically change as the indium gallium would also get a darker yellow on the die, almost a macaroni color. I have let the work light module and the mag lite module on for an hour and there is no issues. 

If i were to make a 4D unit it would last over two hours with the same setup but that a little too big for now but would be nice to add to the collection. The gs k1's have a tremendous throw but in numbers as a 5mm needs some backup to be effective and this is it, the good stuff...:naughty:

If you have a large surface area with correct LxWxD, the heat would get evenly distributed rather than a center concentration of heat(SMD's). That's why this design works better than most would anticipate. Look up some thermodynamics and you will see this is a flawless design and also they got the right amount of led's to balance performance and reliability. Majority of the Asian companies have a lot better quality control(ISO 9000,9001,9002,9003...etc) than our best companies with litlle or no quality control(its quantity here rather than quality). 

I do not think NASA would use batteries on their MARS rover or satellites over ULTRACAPS for reliability reasons. They take in 100% of their charge(Solar, Thermoelectric or DC motors), that's what the benefit these offer and as far as power density, it still has a way to go. Also do you ever think that when we have such a ravish lifestyle, we need to maybe take a step back and re-evaluate our consumption needs. Of course we have it but do we really need it, laws of conservation and general ethics are being applied to this. If we show some interest in some type of alternatives there will be better outcomes in the end rather then just improving failed designs to begin with(conventional combustion engine 40% efficient and 200 years old). Trying something new is always exciting and has always proven to be the same if not better since day one. Following gets us nowhere and has brought us to a downfall and one day this technology will meet and exceed are expectations.

We have seen the nichia bs, cs, gs and this is because we have stuck with it. Then this has got other companies to jump on the wagon and thus we got prosperity. This is the first step to innovation and change because we have crippled ourselves and our leader has to kill and take the blame for our nice lifestyles. I am not trying to say anything bad but this is more of a brief point to show why I am doing what I am doing. I am not being smug but I am rather saying, you want to try something new? Also this not a place and time to be serious as this is more of an educated discussion, I am in no way trying to persuade or tell you what to do but rather what if you were to try it...:sigh:

INSANITY: Repeating the same process over and over and expecting a different outcome each time...

Thanks for the interest on this thread as it did not start off too well but I think we are back to being on topic. Also if you would please take part in the poll as I would love to do some changes to meet some potential customers on a limited run light.:twothumbs

Thanks again,
Eric Ramirez


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## kramer5150 (May 24, 2010)

~50 Lumens... for 8 hours from a 2-3D mag would TOTALLY appeal to me... much more so than a floody showerhead for 30 minutes.

If you refined the design a bit, and offered them without the drop in I think you could sell these. $100 might be a bit steep though.


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## ama230 (May 24, 2010)

The led head is a little better on power consumption and this is why i chose it. If you were to have an array of power leds without proper regulation those leds would go up quicker than a camera flash as these things are no joke. 100A draw from each cell is no problem to these and thats why i am offering this particular setups to adapt. 

Having a DIY would cause a lot of people to slap in what ever and then... Then this would leave to a bad reputation. If a nite ize were to appeal then it would cost 70 bucks and then fifty if its your own light. Then to leave it open to whatever regulated led setup it would be even less. Then again I was offering a superb package and is in no way not worth it. Having a flashlight that would last 100 years is sooo worth it and not to mention it would allow the user to pitch in and help the earth a little, but without government incentives, which it should by the way...

If you were to have a cree xp-g that the maratac aaa has then this thing would really rock and would have an awesome run time. I know there is some improvement but these are all hard to find products that I am slapping together and making it an ultra rare combination. 
Im glad you are showing some interest so let me know what could be some possibilities as I would love to a combined effort to give a dwarf technology a chance(no pun intended).


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## ama230 (May 27, 2010)

fyrstormer said:


> The design as stated in Post 1 needs some revision. Nichia GS LEDs are the most efficient 5mm thru-hole LEDs on the market, but surface-mount LEDs are still better overall. I have a little AAA flashlight using a Cree XP-E LED running at ~50mA that runs cool enough it needs no heatsinking, and it puts the Nichia GS to shame. There's a reason the big manufacturers are all dumping their thru-hole LED designs nowadays. You can have a much smaller array of surface-mount LEDs using the same power as your Nichia GS array and it will be brighter and have better color rendition at the same time.
> 
> Might not want to introduce yourself to a new community by telling them all how you know more than they do about their topic of focus. "I'M A PROFESSIONAL" too, as are most everyone else here, in one field or another. The new guy ALWAYS kisses *** at first no matter how smart he is.



The reason that 5mm fail is that they are not cost effective here in the us. It costs a lot more for the 36 Nichia GS 5mm's than a single smd(In size, money and time which equals money) The nichia gs will do better than any cree any day on efficiency. This whole head assembly is running on 3/4 of an amp and to drive a cree xp-g it takes at least an amp to get something in the range of this light in intensity, then also requires heat sinking. 

Then we all know this is not my light design, where does it state that it is? On the board or the led's..... I forgot where i put my name?
Then secondly, when does 30min +30min=30min. This thing runs for an hour and charges in a few minutes. Other lighting modules could give a better runtime with less output. This is not a battery and quit getting it confused. 

Battery:Stores energy in the form of a chemical reaction and has a short life.

Ultracap: Aluminum as electrodes and carbon sheet to catch electrons and electrolyte to keep path of conductivity. Long life as there is nothing to wear out and simple design makes it environmentally safe.

I'm just replying to douche bags like you(Jash, led ninja, frystormer, john galt, kramer 5150, MrGman etc...) that need an explanation on how it works and then tell me it doesn't work. You guys obviously already got a Google degree why don't you Google some more and then figure it out, seems to be working in your guy's favor. I am not going to explain myself and am far from getting mad but when ignorance and a couple of Google searches are getting you to fire an actual question or snotty comment, this is ignorance and i am for sure intolerant to this.

As for the uneducated comments keep them to yourselves or someone who is new to this world. Also whats with all the hate, this is supposed to be a forum for help and a tight community. When you see or hear something that you have no idea what it is you kill it, where's the humanity in that?:candle:

As for the moderator I am sorry but things have to be straightened out as these people are harassing(not just me)and its just getting old and why do i get all the blame? I am not going to have this as I am indeed trying to introduce a technology that could benefit mankind and expose them to something that surely deserves exposure. I do not want the government to have all the benefits, So I am the technology Santa Claus and spreading all the technology joy

Also again only comment if you have knowledge or interest in the thread.


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## saabluster (May 27, 2010)

ama230 said:


> I'm just replying to douche bags like you(Jash, led ninja, frystormer, john galt, kramer 5150, MrGman etc...)



How do you expect to be a part of this community when you go around calling people names? People have voiced reasonable questions. Just calmly answer the questions. You do not seem to give enough credit to the talent and knowledge base found at this site. You do so to your own peril.


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## csshih (May 27, 2010)

I agree with saabluster's view. I've been following the thread with some interest, but it doesn't seem you're interested in what others have to say, as you just called out some of CPF's best.

treat others how you expect to be treated yourself. this name calling gets us nowhere.


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## DM51 (May 27, 2010)

ama230 said:


> I'm just replying to douche bags like you... I am not going to explain myself and am far from getting mad ... snotty comment ... this is ignorance and i am for sure intolerant to this ... as for the uneducated comments keep them to yourselves ...


You were warned by me above (post #16) that rude and abusive posts would not be tolerated here. You have chosen to ignore that warning.




ama230 said:


> moderator I am sorry but things have to be straightened out as these people are harassing …


 Being rude to other members is *NOT* the way to straighten *ANYTHING* out.




ama230 said:


> I am the technology Santa Claus and spreading all the technology joy


We’ve had people here before who thought they were God’s gift to the forum. They weren’t; and neither are you. You are not indispensable – no one is. 

You need to learn how to deal with questions and criticism with good grace, not with displays of juvenile temper. 

You now have a week away from here to cool off and learn how to behave in an appropriate manner. When you return, we will expect to see a significant change in your style.


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## MrGman (May 27, 2010)

"I am an electrical engineer from A.S.U. in Arizona that has tons of experience with alternative energy technologies and was going to see if there are some potential customers on *my custom light*. I have one built right now as this was a senior project and has turned out better than anticipated. *I had made this custom light* to make and advance smart charger for the caps that was run by a microcontroller to tell the stages of charge by led indication. But that was an expensive one-of. This light just uses a basic charger that is still awesome but you have to go by time(10min) rather than the expensive charger that I made but could make another one if wanted but this works just as well but is a little slower as the charger runs at [email protected] I can get these cheap at fry's so that's why I use them and also they come with all types of plugs and you can vary the voltage as well(reverse polarity, the whole bit)"


Actually DM51 I would request that this thread simply be closed. This guy misrepresented this light from the beginning as a custom design creation of his own, when it fact its a low budget showerhead design he is simply buying from asia and adding his own power source configuration to. He claims to be a power supply guru but other than the super caps, he has no custom driver configuration and no custom smart charger configuration. There is nothing impressive here at all. Some of us did not even question that it wouldn't work, only that we were not interested in the shower head LED configuration and he was extremely disrespectful to the entire community that questioned anything and everything. I also questioned some of his political ramblings to myself but took the higher road and kept my keyboard shut on that issue. I have no interest in seeing any more of this wonderful gentleman's postings again, and don't see that anything positive is going to come out of this thread any more.

We all know that a good set up with super caps can provide a reasonable renewable power source to a wide variety of LED light configurations as long as the power draw is not too heavy. he isn't providing any useful information on charging control/regulation, power output regulation, or anything at all about a new LED source. 

I am quite certain I am not alone in this way of thinking at this point in time. G.


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## kramer5150 (May 27, 2010)

+1 on deleting this thread all together.

There is nothing factual or technical being discussed here. Just one member shilling up his DIY, and knocking those who question it.

From what we have been presented with, its nothing more than some $$$ caps powering a showerhead LED array PR drop in.

On a more personal note, I find it unpleasant being called a douchebag, for merely having a technical discussion. I always question (mentally) an engineer who introduces himself with his degree and technical accomplishments. They always rub me the wrong way... both on the job and in technical discussion forums.

**EDIT**
I didn't think [email protected] surfed CPF anymore. LOL at his poll selection. I guess I was wrong. There... Something good came out of this thread.


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## csshih (May 27, 2010)

haha kramer, I noticed that too!


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## was.lost.but.now.found (May 27, 2010)

ama230 said:


> Also do you ever think that when we have such a ravish lifestyle, we need to maybe take a step back and re-evaluate our consumption needs.


 
You're right, I'm going to start right now and not "consume" any product from this thread.

But seriously, when you've given up all your points and the only remaining argument you have is that it's environmentally friendly, why are you trying to convince a whole bunch of flashaholics that we need to buy more? Besides, NiMH and li-ion are both completely recyclable.


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