# What's so great about Surefire?



## 2Reason (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm new here and have become badly addicted after a seemingly innocent purchase of a Streamlight Scorpion C4, and the subsequent discovery of this forum. Now my propensity for incessant research has been focused upon flashlights and beamshots. :huh: 

It never occurred to me that flashlights had the addictive quality of crack, but now I'm constantly chasing the acquisition of more and better lights. 

Within days an Olight M21, Thrunite Catapult, and Malkoff Drop-In for a D cell MagLite have all been acquired as must haves. Thanks to this forum I made some terrific choices. lovecpf 

The search for discretionary money is relentless... I'm thinking of selling some of my handgun collection... 

I did my income tax over the weekend in search of new found cash. I'm encouraging my wife to buy kitchen gadgets, so she can't complain about yet another flashlight. :devil: 

But, I digress... What I've not yet come to understand is the passion for Surefires. They seem overpriced and underpowered (sorry for my ignorance) 

So what am I missing with Surefire and will the acquisition of one result in an exponentiation of my addictive disorder?


----------



## carrot (Feb 8, 2010)

It's better if I don't explain and you see for yourself. Surefires have an almost magical quality to them where handling and owning a few will instantly make you jaded and addicted to their high quality lights. Even then while I love their lights not many of them are stock as they have been modded and accessorized because they are an excellent platform to build on. For instance I have a Nailbender module in my 6P, a Malkoff on my E2E, a Milky modded E1L and a soon to be Mule L1.


----------



## kramer5150 (Feb 8, 2010)

A bit of a warning... these kinds of threads tend to get heated, so just beware. 

IMHO...

I like the finish, feel and heft of their designs. Theres just "something" about SF typeIII. They just feels so nice in the hand... same goes for the nitrolon cheaper models. I also think Jetbeam and nitecore typeIII is very nice.

I like to support a local business. With companies flocking out of the state of CA, I get a sens of satisfaction owning one along side my other brands.

I like being able to call them up and get replacement parts if I ever do break something.

The CPF marketplace is ALWAYS brimming with replacement parts and WTB posts. More-so than any other brand IMHO. I can take my surefires to local CPF meets and use them to barter and trade for other stuff.

I also like how 3rd party companies sell compatible parts, that have been designed specifically for SF compatibility.

There you go... some cheap lights along side my better ones.


----------



## 2Reason (Feb 8, 2010)

carrot said:


> It's better if I don't explain and you see for yourself. Surefires have an almost magical quality to them where handling and owning a few will instantly make you jaded and addicted to their high quality lights. Even then while I love their lights not many of them are stock as they have been modded and accessorized because they are an excellent platform to build on. For instance I have a Nailbender module in my 6P, a Malkoff on my E2E, a Milky modded E1L and a soon to be Mule L1.



Wow, you have whetted my appetite with a very cogent explanation. 

And, thank you for your very comprehensive guide to high end flashlights. It has been especially helpful in my preliminary study and it serves as a constant reference. I highly recommend it:
http://sites.google.com/site/cpfcarrot/flashlight_guide#basic_terms


----------



## LeifUK (Feb 8, 2010)

2Reason said:


> Wow, you have whetted my appetite with a very cogent explanation.
> 
> And, thank you for your very comprehensive guide to high end flashlights. It has been especially helpful in my preliminary study and it serves as a constant reference. I highly recommend it:
> http://sites.google.com/site/cpfcarrot/flashlight_guide#basic_terms



That is very informative and useful, but I doubt the statement that type 2 HA is no harder than bare aluminium. Both type 2 HA and type 3 HA create a layer of alumina, a very hard oxide of aluminium. Type 3 HA has a much thicker layer and hence is more durable. Bare aluminium is incredibly easy to scratch (as is my titanium watch). As an aside, alumina will form naturally on freshly exposed aluminium (a bit like rust), forming a hard but very thin layer.


----------



## pilote (Feb 8, 2010)

only surefires for me...either their LED models or 6p type fitted with a malkoff...no interest in any other brands...and i concur that there are other brands equal or better, but only surefires for me...


----------



## Alberta-Blue (Feb 8, 2010)

Go buy a Surefire and find out... I somehow doubt you'll be disappointed!


----------



## sfca (Feb 8, 2010)

Alberta-Blue said:


> Go buy a Surefire and find out...



That's exactly it. 

If you're shy about the price there are used ones in whatever condition you specify floating around @ the marketplace.

Which, by the way, I'm looking for a new *black C2 body*. 
Man, those C2 bodies are _so hard_ to come by!!


----------



## DimeRazorback (Feb 8, 2010)

Get an LX2, you won't be disappointed. It is by no means lacking output.


----------



## Locoboy5150 (Feb 8, 2010)

There is no doubt that Surefire lights are not the cheapest ones out there so if you've never held or used one, it would be hard to justify the extra cash needed to purchase one. I don't have any Surefire products, but I have held them and they are very impressive. They just *feel* like a high quality product, more so than other brands of lights.

Also, in my previous line of work I designed trucks for the US Army and Marines. They went out to the front lines of Iraq and every once in a while I used to read reports from the soldiers that used our products as intended. I used to see photos in those reports of trucks that had come face to face with mines and IEDs. I remember seeing a photo of a flashlight in the dirt by a road in Iraq after it had either been dropped by a soldier riding in a blown up truck when the IED went off or had been inside the truck. I don't know if it worked, but it at least appeared complete and undamaged in the photo, except for the usual scratches and dings from combat. Guess what brand it was that survived a truck being blasted apart...

Surefire.

Not Fenix, Jetbeam, 4 Sevens, Nitecore or whatever "tactical" brand of flashlight that you see highly touted here in CPF. It was a Surefire.

Now, does any civilian *really* need a flashlight that has the durability to survive a mine blast that would incapacitate an RG33 MRAP 6x6? Probably not, but in order to make it through such an explosive event requires a very high quality product and that quality comes at a price. You can't see that quality though through table top reviews on Youtube or even in video reviews of guys running around in the mountains with their lights mounted on shotguns. If you see photos of one actually in combat that survived an IED blast, then you see the high quality more clearly.

Oh, and the six Marines inside the truck detailed in that particular report all lived. The driver had a few broken ribs from being thrust into the steering wheel from the blast, but that was the only serious injury. The RG33 was totaled, but it did its job perfectly.


----------



## kramer5150 (Feb 8, 2010)

sfca said:


> That's exactly it.
> 
> If you're shy about the price there are used ones in whatever condition you specify floating around @ the marketplace.
> 
> ...




A little off topic... battery junction has the C2-BK for $90 shipped. Keep the body and part out the parts + 10 primaries on the marketplace.

Neck Lanyard = $12
Z41 = $20
Z44 = $20
P60 = ~$7
10x SF Primaries = $20

Actually maybe this is a little on topic, being that the resale value of SF parts is one of my main attractions.

:thumbsup:


----------



## Search (Feb 8, 2010)

My SureFires have been to hell and back, and work better afterwards. Other brands I've tried didn't have as much luck.

There, now lets wait for the 98457 SureFire thread.


----------



## Search (Feb 8, 2010)

kramer5150 said:


> A little off topic... battery junction has the C2-BK for $90 shipped. Keep the body and part out the parts + 10 primaries on the marketplace.
> 
> Z41 = $20
> Z44 = $20
> ...



Battery Station has a C2L for 99


----------



## Kestrel (Feb 8, 2010)

carrot said:


> handling and owning a few will instantly make you jaded and addicted to their high quality lights. Even then while I love their lights not many of them are stock as they have been modded and accessorized because they are an excellent platform to build on. For instance I have a Nailbender module in my 6P, a Malkoff on my E2E, a Milky modded E1L and a soon to be Mule L1.


I agree with carrot. I do like my SF's, but I've also spent a fair bit of $ on upgrades for them - Milky, Malkoff, McGizmo. I feel comfortable spending money to improve/customize the SF's as I have 100% confidence in them, moreso than on other lights.


----------



## MCFLYFYTER (Feb 8, 2010)

Locoboy5150 said:


> Now, does any civilian *really* need a flashlight that has the durability to survive a mine blast that would incapacitate an RG33 MRAP 6x6?



NO. I need a flashlight I can drop from 3' on concrete and not bust the lens.


----------



## kelmo (Feb 8, 2010)

Welcome to CPF!

Don't listen to those knuckleheads (tongue firmly planted in cheek)! 

The stock incandescents are perfect!


----------



## kramer5150 (Feb 8, 2010)

MCFLYFYTER said:


> NO. I need a flashlight I can drop from 3' on concrete and not bust the lens.



G2/G3/G2Z


----------



## hyperloop (Feb 8, 2010)

i too wondered about the hype regding surefire lights, i saw on the marketplace that there was a G2 on sale so i picked it up and was very impressed with it, even though it was the cheapest surefire among them all. Friend of mine has a 6P but i seemed to like the feel of my G2 more.

Lost that G2 in a taxi and immediately surfed around and got another! That was how much i liked it, i replaced the bulb with a lumens factory HO-9 and am using 2xRCR123s in it and really like the light.

Then i wondered if this is what the cheapest model is like, how much better can the others be? Surfed around for close to a year and finally decided on a Surefire A2 Aviator incand/white leds as i read i can use it with RCR123s (primary CR123s are dreadfully expensive where i come from).

When the A2 finally arrived, i was floored, the fit, the finish, the FEEL of the Surefire in my hand, it was amazingly tough and felt bombproof. i replaced the stock bulb with a Lumens Factory HO-A2 and wow, the output on the LEDs alone is more than ample for most uses and there is the great incand beam for longer range purposes.

IMHO, the A2 is a great user light and is the ONLY light with a regulated incand bulb meaning that you get constant output all the way unlike other incands where the light will get dimmer as the batteries drain.

Don't listen to anyone here, get yourself a surefire and see the difference for yourself, the 6P is a great place to start, oodles of drop ins and lego options available.


----------



## Black Rose (Feb 8, 2010)

I too wondered what all the Surefire hype was about.

At the local CPF meets, there is always a table full of Surefires that we get to hold and play with. 

There's no real way to understand what Surefires are about until you get one in your hands.

I bought a G2 with an aluminum head from a CPF member at the last meet and it's a great light.
It's the lowest cost Surefire light from a $$$ perspective, but it's not a cheap light.


----------



## zs&tas (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi, took me a little over a year to find out, dont wait as long ! 
this was my thread when i recieved my E1l recently 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3238125


----------



## 2Reason (Feb 9, 2010)

I really get what you're telling me... as a gun guy and a car guy I know about feel, optimal design, balance, the integration and interaction of the parts, and all those attributes that make something stand out from all the others. I will make it a point to handle some Surefires and add some to my neophyte collection. Hmmmm, maybe an LX2 :thinking:


----------



## carrot (Feb 9, 2010)

2Reason said:


> Hmmmm, maybe an LX2 :thinking:



That's as good as any a place to start!


----------



## Hack On Wheels (Feb 9, 2010)

2Reason said:


> I really get what you're telling me... as a gun guy and a car guy I know about feel, optimal design, balance, the integration and interaction of the parts, and all those attributes that make something stand out from all the others. I will make it a point to handle some Surefires and add some to my neophyte collection. Hmmmm, maybe an LX2 :thinking:



The LX2 looks and sounds great by all accounts! I'm still not comfortable with spending that much on a single light yet, but I've gotten hooked on the Surefire gateway drug.... the E-series. The lego options are fantastic, I'm piecing together a couple of E-series based lights (with Surefire and 3rd party parts) and this will be the beginning of my Surefire affliction. I think the LX2 head is E-series compatible, by the way!  The tailcap definitely isn't though, unfortunately.


----------



## RedLED (Feb 9, 2010)

What some othere advise here is to buy one, and see if you like it.

If you like nice things, Guns, cars and the like, I think you will love Surefires.

I agree with the others in that an LX2 would be the perfect place to start.

You will not be dissapointed. If you do not like it, they are easy to sell.

Good luck,

RL


----------



## 2Reason (Feb 9, 2010)

Hack On Wheels said:


> ... but I've gotten hooked on the Surefire gateway drug.... the E-series. *The lego options are fantastic*, I'm piecing together a couple of E-series based lights



I've searched here and on Goggle but remain confused as to "lego options." What exactly does Lego mean? Clearly it refers to custom build, but is it an acronym or what? 

And if I've neglected to mention it, many thanks for all the valued input. As in all new pursuits there is a learning curve, but this forum is the best learning tool with its great reviews, discussions, and a search function that works so well. lovecpf


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 9, 2010)

LeifUK said:


> That is very informative and useful, but I doubt the statement that type 2 HA is no harder than bare aluminium. Both type 2 HA and type 3 HA create a layer of alumina, a very hard oxide of aluminium. Type 3 HA has a much thicker layer and hence is more durable. Bare aluminium is incredibly easy to scratch (as is my titanium watch). As an aside, alumina will form naturally on freshly exposed aluminium (a bit like rust), forming a hard but very thin layer.


There is no such thing as Type 2 HA. Only type 3 is hard anodized.


----------



## Kestrel (Feb 9, 2010)

I'd actually like to thank the OP for his even-minded initial post for this thread - I'd say that this is one of the better 'what's so great about SF' threads because the initial post wasn't written in such a manner as to invite extremists from both camps as is common for these threads. I'm impressed with the civility of the discussion in this thread - or maybe just the non-SF people haven't come across this thread yet? :tinfoil:


----------



## Dave Keith (Feb 9, 2010)

"Lego options" is an analogy to the toy blocks that were the one toy my two (now grown) sons played with for an extended time. 

The ability to mix and match bodies, tailcaps, and bezels in many combinations is one attraction of the Surefire and is similar to the joy of making your own Lego toy.


----------



## zs&tas (Feb 9, 2010)

This link is great, read it all from start to finish and you will find out what the lego is all about. i keep this shortcut on my desktop so i can have a look when ever im dreaming - still on the one surefire at the mo, itl change soon though........

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/234418


----------



## Hooked on Fenix (Feb 9, 2010)

Surefires are made in the U.S.A. (one of the few companies left). Build quality is about as good as it gets. They use the best aluminum, anodizing is thicker than everyone elses, lumen ratings are modest and not exaggerated, threads are deeper and wider (they last and don't crossthread), and they are built tough enough to survive the recoil of a gun, being run over by a car, or being dropped down a garbage disposal (as one CPF member recently discovered). The HAIII lights can saw a maglite in half. They are made to be upgradeable and easily modified with different heads, strike bezels, drop-in bulbs, and tailcaps.

They are, however, about the most expensive brand so if brightness or efficiency is more important to you than build quality or durability, then you may be better off going with another company. Not everyone needs a bulletproof light that costs a fortune. Some just need a light that turns on when you need it to. However, in the long run, it's usually cheaper to have a light that lasts a lifetime than to buy a cheap one every time the last cheap one stops working (unless you lose lights a lot).


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 9, 2010)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Surefires are made in the U.S.A. (one of the few companies left). Build quality is about as good as it gets. They use the best aluminum, anodizing is thicker than everyone elses, lumen ratings are modest and not exaggerated, threads are deeper and wider (they last and don't crossthread), and they are built tough enough to survive the recoil of a gun, being run over by a car, or being dropped down a garbage disposal (as one CPF member recently discovered). The HAIII lights can saw a maglite in half. They are made to be upgradeable and easily modified with different heads, strike bezels, drop-in bulbs, and tailcaps.
> 
> They are, however, about the most expensive brand so if brightness or efficiency is more important to you than build quality or durability, then you may be better off going with another company. Not everyone needs a bulletproof light that costs a fortune. Some just need a light that turns on when you need it to. However, in the long run, it's usually cheaper to have a light that lasts a lifetime than to buy a cheap one every time the last cheap one stops working (unless you lose lights a lot).


Good post, I agree with almost everything... While not everybody may "need" a SureFire, not everything is about needs, this a hobby after all. Having said that, there is not a single valid reason for anyone who is serious about this hobby not consider having at least a single SureFire light in his/hers collection. Or anyone who appreciates a quality tool, for that matter.


----------



## LeifUK (Feb 9, 2010)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> There is no such thing as Type 2 HA. Only type 3 is hard anodized.



Yes, it seems that type 2 anodising is the correct term though type 2 HA is widely (mis)used, for example: 

http://www.cpfwiki.com/Wiki/index.php/Materials#Anodizing

The above seems to be connected to CPF.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 9, 2010)

LeifUK said:


> Yes, it seems that type 2 anodising is the correct term though type 2 HA is widely (mis)used, for example:
> 
> http://www.cpfwiki.com/Wiki/index.php/Materials#Anodizing
> 
> The above seems to be connected to CPF.


That's just one of the reasons to avoid WIKI type of source.


----------



## carrot (Feb 9, 2010)

Can we get back on topic to loving Surefire and Surefire worship please?


----------



## SuperTrouper (Feb 9, 2010)

zs&tas said:


> Hi, took me a little over a year to find out, dont wait as long !
> this was my thread when i recieved my E1l recently
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3238125



And your thread was the final straw that made me just have to get my first Surefire and see how great they were firsthand.

(I certainly wasn't disappointed!)


----------



## Gatsby (Feb 9, 2010)

My reply to the linked E1L post says a lot of what I think... but here is a slightly different take. I resisted Surefires for a good bit of time - I had an E2E probably 5 years ago which I sold because I just didn't use it enough (I hated running through CR123s at the pace the E2E runs through them and hadn't figured out different lamp/rechargeable solutions or cheap cells online). 

I was firmly in the Arc camp at that time - and my LSHP with the 2xAA body was a great utility light/edc combination. I was convinced LEDs were the way to go and only had a Streamlight Strion for higher power/throw which outpaced the LSHP (which IIRC was maybe 25 or so lumens, my how times change). Then I had an Arc4, and an HDS and I still love my Novatac 120P. I've bought, sold and traded a good number of lights and started rethinking trying out a Surefire again after seeing the E1L dual mode and its size. I like at least two levels and the E1L was smaller than I expected and I just picked one up on an impulse. And was quite surprised. It is a great little light - which led to a 6PL, an E2L, an L1 and a Milky Creemator KX2 mod. 

So what is it about them? Much has already been said which I agree with, but one thing I'll throw out is that they have a very impressive tactile feel to them - the build quality, the knurling, the HAIII (or type II for the 6P), the threads, the fit and finish, etc... all exudes not just quality but an almost intangible feeling of well considered design and function specific engineering. They just simply "feel" really good. 

An additional advantage is that they are great platforms for other stuff - I have my 6PL bored and a McClickie tailcap installed and it is a great host for P60 drop ins. I have a couple different bodies for my Creemator - a Vital Gear FB1 and an E2 body that accomodates a 17670, and just added a Fivemega 18650 body which I need to get an AW IMR 18650 to give more oomph to my Creemator. But the KX1 and KX2 respectively (and I run the KX2 E2L dual mode head on the E1L body a good bit with an RCR123) are in their own rights very useful lights. 

The L1 is an intereting bird - a bit oversized for a 1x123 light - not appreciably brighter than my E1L and my E2L is equally bright... but I do see the appeal of the UI and like the others I still put it in my work computer bag as a backup and use it from time to time because it sure does "feel" great! I remain on the lookout for a KL1 modded head and a McE2S tailcap which would replace the L1...


----------



## DimeRazorback (Feb 9, 2010)

Another good thing about surefire is when you accidentally throw your A2 onto concrete and blow the bulb, destroying the reflector and lens, they replace it for nothing


----------



## Lightcrazycanuck (Feb 9, 2010)

lovecpf


----------



## 2Reason (Feb 9, 2010)

Dave Keith said:


> "Lego options" is an analogy to the toy blocks that were the one toy my two (now grown) sons played with for an extended time.
> 
> The ability to mix and match bodies, tailcaps, and bezels in many combinations is one attraction of the Surefire and is similar to the joy of making your own Lego toy.



Many thanks for the explanation.
lovecpf


----------



## lapd.erik (Feb 9, 2010)

Working in one of the most dangerous places to be a Law Enforcement Officer, I only rock Surefires because i know how tough and reliable they are. Being made in the USA is just as important to me.


----------



## socom1970 (Feb 9, 2010)

+1 on everything said about Surefire so far.

Another very important thing about Surefire that CPF'ers know is that Surefire is owned and run by people just like us. They are flashaholics just like we are. 

Dr. John Matthews, Founder, President of Surefire, and Head Flashaholic, always carries his trusty A2 Aviator (possibly replaced by the A2 LED?) and is just as intrigued by techie stuff like lights, guns, knives, etc... as we are. He is the one who started the whole tactical flashlight industry. He has been spotted by CPF'ers riding his bicycle with various interesting flashlights and gadgets attached to it.

Paul Kim, Surefire's VP of Engineering, is a fellow CPF'er and a consummate flashaholic who is one of the creative driving forces behind Surefire and everything they stand for. He regularly entertains techie friends and fellow CPF'ers at the yearly SHOT show that is a yearly convention for all things electronic and technical, even to the extent of holding CPF parties where all manner of Surefire flashlights and Surefire flashlight-related info are exchanged and given away. Not sold, but literally given away by Paul to attendees of his parties. He is one of us. Period. 

Willie Hunt, Surefire's head electrical engineer, uses his Surefire lights quite often when caving, mountain-climbing, and other extreme sports that require lights you can bet your life on. Also a Flashaholic by nature (or so I've heard... )

Other people who work for Surefire are also flashaholics, people who use the Surefire products and appreciate the top-notch products they help to create. People who take their jobs of building the best products very seriously. 

For me, people like these that make Surefire products what they are, this is most important. That holds more water for me than any ad campaign or corporate marketing ploy. And their commitment and passion come through in every Surefire product they make. Their products exude quality, durability, reliability, and beauty. They are functional art. 

I guess I'm just a Surefire fan, man!


----------



## 2Reason (Feb 9, 2010)

socom1970 said:


> +1 on everything said about Surefire so far.
> 
> Another very important thing about Surefire that CPF'ers know is that Surefire is owned and run by people just like us. They are flashaholics just like we are.
> 
> ...



That is a point well taken... Sadly, there is a short supply of such people in business that have a passion for their products and take pride in what they do. So it is good to know that Surefire walks the walk, so to speak.

I would much prefer to buy products from such companies, and can now better understand why Surefires aren't discounted. 

Reminds me of a family run gun company called Seecamp. They are still hand building their ultra small, double action only, .380 ACP pistols even though there is a usual one and half year backorder. Dealers are charging ridiculous premiums of 50%, yet those in the know wait and pay. 

Clearly, there are those of us that appreciate that Old World style quality and workmanship. I've got to hurry up and get a Surefire.


----------



## Kestrel (Feb 9, 2010)

socom1970 said:


> Dr. John Matthews, Founder, President of Surefire, and Head Flashaholic, always carries his trusty A2 Aviator *(possibly replaced by the A2 LED?)*


Hmm, I don't know if someone could go from using a well-driven A2 incan of such excellent repute to the angry blue emitter that the A2L has been reported to have - the same tint as the venerable P60LED module. :shrug:

GREAT post BTW. I'm happy to support such a company. :thumbsup:


----------



## JNewell (Feb 9, 2010)

My 1990-something 6Z, which had innumerable lexan window replacements, then a bezel upgrade to the pyrex window version, and a couple of tailcap replacements, would like to say that Surefire warranty service is above-gold standard. No one touches Surefire for stand-up service.


----------



## Tim W (Feb 9, 2010)

Hack On Wheels said:


> ... I'm still not comfortable with spending that much on a single light yet,...




Totally off-topic, but wait until you get the urge to get a McGizmo (or 3)_* AND*_ a SPY007!!!

I'm  for a good long while!


Back on-topic: Yes, I do have a couple Surefires (M2 & M6)that aren't going _anywhere_!


----------



## LightWalker (Feb 9, 2010)

......


----------



## sfca (Feb 9, 2010)

Shipping to Canada - no go!

I live in Vancouver.. Anyone wanna trade a *C2-bk body* for a stuffy of the *Olympic mascots?*

:laughing:

Somebody do what kramer says.. I'll buy the body off you!




kramer5150 said:


> A little off topic... battery junction has the C2-BK for $90 shipped. Keep the body and part out the parts + 10 primaries on the marketplace.
> 
> Neck Lanyard = $12
> Z41 = $20
> ...


----------



## RedLED (Feb 11, 2010)

lapd.erik said:


> Working in one of the most dangerous places to be a Law Enforcement Officer, I only rock Surefires because i know how tough and reliable they are. Being made in the USA is just as important to me.


 
You Don't carry the LAPD Pelican light? I have been thinking of getting one. I like pelican products.

Let us know.

Best,

RL


----------



## OfficerCamp (Feb 11, 2010)

Surefires are just great for every one of the reasons listed above. I think that when you take it to the next level and mod/upgrade a Surefire, you end up with EXACTLY what you want in that torch. For instance: a C2/6P/M2 is pretty much as durable of a light as one could want, and with that platform you can add drop ins for any situation, bore the body for larger capacity cells, add a clicky for momentary control, mount it to a long gun with a tape switch. The Surefire adapts to the level you need it for, that's what's great about them. Lots of lights require a very in depth understanding of electronics/drivers/soldering technique etc. There is a modularity (is that a word?) and rugged simplicity (in most designs) in Surefire that keeps me comming back. I only own 4 Surefires, but 2 of them come to work with me every night.
Chris


----------



## lardydevil (Feb 11, 2010)

I've gotta add my support for SF's. I joined CPF a couple of weeks ago looking for similar answers. I thought there were plenty of products out there with higher lumen ratings for less cash. However, few people can deny the supreme build quality. I have an original 6P and 9P. Owned both for over 12 years. They have been used daily in all weathers, temperatures, been drowned and dropped and have NEVER failed. I was thinking about replacing them as they are looking tired, but they function perfectly and reliably. So after getting a lot of advice from here I've decided to invest in a couple of Malkoff drop ins to improve the lumens. As far as the bodies go; my experience has taught me that they cannot (or don't need) improving. Worth the extra cash without a doubt. I don't know how many other other manufacturers produce flashlights that would still be going strong after this amount of time? I'm a Paramedic so I need the best. Been looking for the past two weeks for something better, but IMHO not found anything. :devil:


----------



## Kestrel (Feb 11, 2010)

lardydevil said:


> Been looking for the past two weeks for something better, but IMHO not found anything. :devil:


LOL, two weeks of research *on CPF(!)* and still can't beat the classic 6P & 9P, that says something right there. :thumbsup:


----------



## foxtrot29 (Feb 11, 2010)

sfca said:


> That's exactly it.
> 
> If you're shy about the price there are used ones in whatever condition you specify floating around @ the marketplace.
> 
> ...




HA! I have one I'd sell you, but it's not "new". It's used and has a few minor scratches here or there. I parted out the rest of the C2, just never got rid of the body.


----------



## dealgrabber2002 (Feb 11, 2010)

Lightcrazycanuck said:


> lovecpf


 
???


----------



## DM51 (Feb 12, 2010)

LightWalker, I have reconsidered your case and your suspension is lifted. In return, I would ask you to take great care in future when intervening in threads with comments that could be misinterpreted.


----------



## pm07 (Feb 12, 2010)

For me, its alot/all of the above. I received my 1st Surefire back in 1989 when they were Laser Products. The original 6P. I've been a fan ever since. Now, I said fan not fanboy. I own 18 different SF products from handhelds to weaponlights. I trust my life to them on all my weapons. I have always received excellent customer service and support from them . They have always responded quickly to my calls or emails. Even when it came to repairing a 15 year old weaponlight. Now are they perfect? Depends on your definition. My biggest whine/gripe is putting stuff in the catalog to tease us with, then dropping it from the line. I understand the need for perfection before releasing a product but I hate teasing. I will continue to purchase SF lights as long as fit the mission.


----------



## zs&tas (Feb 12, 2010)

Hey pm07, what was the turn around time for customer service is 1898 ? 
:thumbsup:


----------



## USACelt (Feb 12, 2010)

OK..I'm not a surefire hater, but I find it hard to like them. The cost is off the chart for what you get. I have been able to get several 6P's for a great price, but what I have to spend to get the same output as other companies is a lot. You end up spending almost a hundred dollars for what 60 dollars will get from other companies. Persoally I think 239.00 for a titan that only puts out 70 lumens at the emitter is insane. IMO. I agree the build feels good. I picked up an E1E for a song and gave it back because it was so weak. Many will continue to buy SF bacause of the "Made in USA" lable and I will continue trying to like them.


----------



## Size15's (Feb 12, 2010)

pm07 said:


> I received my 1st Surefire back in 1898 when they were Laser Devices.


I assume you meant Laser Products.
Laser Devices Inc. is a completely different company.


----------



## Search (Feb 12, 2010)

USACelt said:


> OK..I'm not a surefire hater, but I find it hard to like them. The cost is off the chart for what you get. I have been able to get several 6P's for a great price, but what I have to spend to get the same output as other companies is a lot. You end up spending almost a hundred dollars for what 60 dollars will get from other companies. Persoally I think 239.00 for a titan that only puts out 70 lumens at the emitter is insane. IMO. I agree the build feels good. I picked up an E1E for a song and gave it back because it was so weak. Many will continue to buy SF bacause of the "Made in USA" lable and I will continue trying to like them.



I think you should look into why the T1A costs so much. 

Arguing with the lack of innovation idea doesn't matter.


----------



## pm07 (Feb 12, 2010)

Dude, thats why you dont let dyslexic .mil/leo near a keyboard.  Thanks for the good catch. I meant 1989 and Laser Products Inc. Old age is a bear.


----------



## Brigadier (Feb 12, 2010)

I still own my first ever Laser Products 6P..........


----------



## JNewell (Feb 12, 2010)

"Off the chart for what you get"??? I mean this in a friendly tone of voice, but - are you kidding? Who else would continually rebuild a flashlight for 15 years for no charge? That's the only reason my 6Z is still part of my EDC equipment, rather than the fifth or sixth replacement for my 6Z. 



USACelt said:


> OK..I'm not a surefire hater, but I find it hard to like them. The cost is off the chart for what you get. I have been able to get several 6P's for a great price, but what I have to spend to get the same output as other companies is a lot. You end up spending almost a hundred dollars for what 60 dollars will get from other companies. Persoally I think 239.00 for a titan that only puts out 70 lumens at the emitter is insane. IMO. I agree the build feels good. I picked up an E1E for a song and gave it back because it was so weak. Many will continue to buy SF bacause of the "Made in USA" lable and I will continue trying to like them.


----------



## LightWalker (Feb 12, 2010)

DM51 said:


> LightWalker, I have reconsidered your case and your suspension is lifted. In return, I would ask you to take great care in future when intervening in threads with comments that could be misinterpreted.


 
I will do that, thank you.


----------



## kaichu dento (Feb 13, 2010)

USACelt said:


> OK..I'm not a surefire hater, but I find it hard to like them. The cost is off the chart for what you get.


Are you sure?  The cost is higher than some other lights but I suggest that the cost is pretty reasonable considering what you get, and I'm not even much of a Surefire fan. 


> I think 239.00 for a titan that only puts out 70 lumens at the emitter is insane. IMO. I agree the build feels good. I picked up an E1E for a song and gave it back because it was so weak. Many will continue to buy SF bacause of the "Made in USA" lable and I will continue trying to like them.


For you it may be that the T1A is a light you should avoid and I hope you'll stay away from the 007, McGizmo and Modamag threads so that we don't have to hear about how overpriced for output level all their lights are. 

I think your last statement is the worst; to suggest that the only reason I've bought Surefire is because it's made here. I bought a couple out of curiosity, knowing that I would just resell them, but once I got the E1e in my hands there's just something I really liked about it that has simply to do with the way if feels and operates.


----------



## Rocketman (Feb 14, 2010)

I think if Surefire would make a 6P with a low, medium-low, medium, and high, I would love it. I think if they had done a better job with my LX2, I would have loved it. As it is, I see Surefire as a company who has big contracts with our military and manufactures lights accordingly.

I do like to buy from USA companies.

Streamlight is another USA company but I think some of their lights are made somewhere else.

I suppose if I had to say, I would say that Surefire should make a consumer line of lights with the same quality as their current line but with more current led's and circuits. And I would also say that Surefire should do some work on their service department because in my experience that is a problem.

This economy is changing and people expect to get what they pay for regardless of the USA stamp and company history. 

I have a few friends at work who have Surefires. Each light was military issue, did not cost them a single penny.


----------



## zs&tas (Feb 14, 2010)

The new stratum looks good Rocketman


----------



## hakuin (Nov 1, 2016)

I just dug-out my old Laser Products 6p (with the lithium batt extension tube and instructions) with the idea of doing a module replacement. This light has a great deal of sentimental value to me, and I would enjoy using it with an enhanced output. What should I look for in such a project?


----------



## staticx57 (Nov 1, 2016)

Malkoff M61N


----------



## BugoutBoys (Nov 1, 2016)

One of the reasons why SF is a bit behind other manufacturers in output is because rather than jumping on whatever is new and high tech, they make sure that the LED they put in is perfect and optimized. It's like buying the new iPhones RIGHT as they are released. There are bugs and glitches that need to be fixed in updates. So rather than jumping on what is new, they use what is going to work.


----------



## ven (Nov 1, 2016)

Holly thread revival, well for me simply the history, feel and made in the USA all make it special for me. They have added a lot of interest for me, reading up of past and drooling over what you guys could get your hands on. Also, it just does not feel quite right putting a custom p60 in a cheap host.............just does not feel right. With so many great p60 options of today, its nice sometimes to put a super charged v8 in an old classic..............looks super cool and performs better than ever.

Plus you can pimp them up(all with purpose of course)




Or just go basic yet practical








For me, lots great about surefire............plus i have so much more to learn about the classics

No bugs and glitches yet bugoutboys


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Nov 1, 2016)

Right you are, ven. 

Plus, you can color them beautiful colors. 

~ Chance 

Oveready Orange N Black, from back in the day.


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 1, 2016)

What's so great about SureFire?

Once upon a time they hired a guy named PK. We are still enjoying results.


----------



## Newlumen (Nov 1, 2016)

I have a surefire 6p bored. I also bought surefire z2 combat... i bought it because it look cool. Please tell me what so good about surefire z2...


----------



## staticx57 (Nov 1, 2016)

Forgot to mention that having a surefire grants you entry into the cool kids club. Minimum purchase is a 6P


----------



## Bdm82 (Nov 1, 2016)

This bugs me. (Nothing personal BugoutBoys; couldn't resist the bad pun!)

I get the support for the 6p for the modularity, and I get the overall top notch build quality. Great hosts.

What I don't get is throwing support behind old technology and somehow saying that it's a good thing a company is stuck in the past. Yes, using old tech that has been well-vetted is noble. But so do so many brands we don't like (or even know of); just check the bay of e for examples. Why the double standard for SP lights? The build quality and design makes us look past the tech/output?

Whether it is a quality budget brand or our favorite modder, they manage to test new LEDs and find a way to leverage them for good (or skip them). SF is a big brand with deep pockets and a sizeable staff. If SF wanted to use newer LEDs and/or get higher outputs, they could. But they have such a reputation and following that they don't need to; they can keep riding the wave that formed in the past.

Really not trying to start a flamewar.... really not. But I do want to challenge that a company deciding to stick with the old in an industry that is quickly evolving wouldn't fly with other brands...


----------



## staticx57 (Nov 1, 2016)

Objectively speaking, P60 is terrible for LEDs. The lack of integrated LED shelf really hampers heat transfer, aluminum or copper foil is not a patch for a true ground-up LED design. Not to mention it is a one size fits none platform for reflector size.


----------



## liteboy (Nov 1, 2016)

There are certainly trade offs made for modularity but the market ultimately decides which products continue on and which become history


----------



## scout24 (Nov 1, 2016)

^^^^ This. The market decides. The fact that the aftermarket support for the classics is as large as it is says all that needs to be said. The 6P in particular has been around since the "6", introduced in 1988? It to this day can be made to compete with any similar sized light. (Weight, bezel diameter, length.) if you really want to compare apples to apples. Heat is a nonissue. Everything making a bunch of lumens in this size/ weight package has turbo timers or stepdown. Don't like stepdown? See: Malkoff. Oveready. Vinh. Nailbender. Tana. All making flamethrower modules. Yes, it can be approached cheaper. But I can take the Oveready V5 dropin, 2x18350 IMR's, and Zero-Res switch out of my bored 6P and make it anything else I want to.  I will truly be thrilled if some of the current popular lights have the longevity in the market as some of the classic, modular Surefires. Time will tell.


----------



## hakuin (Nov 1, 2016)

staticx57 said:


> Malkoff M61N



Okay,and thanks! M61Nis on the way.


----------



## DellSuperman (Nov 2, 2016)

Newlumen said:


> I have a surefire 6p bored. I also bought surefire z2 combat... i bought it because it look cool. Please tell me what so good about surefire z2...


IMO, the best grip ergonomic: round tube with rubber grip rings. And as all others, the endless choice of dropin & things you can change on the light


----------



## ven (Nov 2, 2016)

+1 dell, the z2 is awesome NL, iirc designed around hand gun use with the thin body and grip rings. Although I was a little unsure of the z2 at first, it's soon become a favourite after use . Surefire are timeless , what light made today could you imagine being used in 30yrs time and still hold its own . Can think of the odd few(without going custom/expensive) , but not many mass produced ........ The z2 just feels great in hand, I do like the thin body to my surprise . The z2 gives me a classic look with a modern undertone.......

I do wonder when lights like the 6p were introduced and what people thought of these compact lights. Being used to larger maglites with an adjustable focus. Wonder if people just got it, or it took years for people to get on board(maybe ahead of their time). 

Very good point mr fixer! and very cool CG, love them both, black C2 is very nice , I don't see that many of those.


----------



## Minimoog (Nov 3, 2016)

SF incandescent lights were great - all of them. At a time when torches were dull, had rings and holes and were pretty miserable, the E2 was like a miracle. The M6 - off the scale. Everyone who tried them wanted one - and did not care what it cost. Then we had LED - and SF took it to another level. The U2, still a wonderful design was amazing with its 5 Watt Luxeon kicking out over 100 Lumens of white light and the ring level setting device is still a desirable feature - AND it ran from an 18650!

But lately with the 'melted black plastic' look with limited functionality they have lost the plot a little. I tried a couple and sold them on, shame.


----------



## BugoutBoys (Nov 4, 2016)

Bdm82 said:


> This bugs me. (Nothing personal BugoutBoys; couldn't resist the bad pun!)
> 
> I get the support for the 6p for the modularity, and I get the overall top notch build quality. Great hosts.
> 
> ...



Brightness also isn't everything. Also if you think of it, they really aren't very far behind. The new P2X is 600 SUREFIRE lumens. It's brighter than my Fenix and Nitecore 1,000 lumen lights. It also gets better runtime and doesn't step down to 400 lumens after a half hour. The P3X is rated at 1,000 lumens but I have no doubt that it's more than that. SF isn't behind, they have extremely bright lights. Including a 4,000 lumen light that shines 1,600 meters. They define a purpose for their lights and manufacture based on that. A keychain light isn't supposed to be 5,000 lumens. A crew served weapon spotlight is. They build off purpose rather than just stuffing the brightest crap out there into their lights.

So many people right now are so spoiled by cheap Chinese flashlights boasting high lumens and people get so impressed by that, they forget the fact that a flashlight is an illumination tool. When was the last time you NEEDED 1,000 or 2,000 lumens? Not when you wanted it, but when the task you were doing was not possible without that output? And when has a SF NOT performed for the task at hand? I have personally never run into a scenario where my SF would not cut it.


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 4, 2016)

Lots of things go into some brands of flashlights that the casual user either do not know of or don't understand. 

So basically the market these days is saturated with products that sell well based off numbers, price or both.
Quality comes in at a distant third. 

SureFire and some other brands stick with what got them a good reputation to begin with. The portion of the market that makes their purchases based off of numbers, price or both see the other guy as lagging.
But a large enough slice of the market sees the tried n true ways are still the way to go, that you do not see these so-called lagging companies going out of business.

Maglite, SureFire, Streamlight, Coast, LED Lenser and others still sell enough products to enough people to remain in business.

So just because the candle power crowd doesn't think they are still relevant does not mean the other 95% of the market agrees. Otherwise Malkoff, Elzetta, HDS, etc would be gone too. We here at CPF make a difference at what the market sees, but we do not play a complete role in what the market purchases... we actually play a smaller role than some realize. But our role is an important role that's for sure.


----------



## Dave D (Nov 4, 2016)

ven said:


> I do wonder when lights like the 6p were introduced and what people thought of these compact lights. Being used to larger maglites with an adjustable focus. Wonder if people just got it, or it took years for people to get on board(maybe ahead of their time).



I had a Maglite and the Surefire's were marketed as being 4 x brighter, what folk's had difficulty with was the price of a 6P, I think that back in the late 80's early 90's a Maglite was about £25-30 and the 6P was nearer £60. I waited until the G2 was released and they were about £45. They eat the CR123's though so as soon as Surefire released the P60L I upgraded it. 

Another bonus was that the 6P/G2 sized meant it was always on your belt, my Maglite got put in my equipment bag and was little used after the Surefire came along.

The last time I saw my Maglite (2D cell incan) the batteries had leaked and done a load of damage inside so it went in the trash. If I'd known then what I know now I would have tried to save it and upgrade it.


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 4, 2016)

According to the inventor it took a buncha years for the 6P to catch on. 
But when it did it was the atomic bomb of flashlights. That lead to a bunch of other ideas still in use by tons of people to this day. P series, G series, E series, A series, M series etc etc.

SureFire is not the same as they were back then. But a lot of the principles are still in their philosophy.
Principles that are invisible to many these days, but were easy to spot in the days a good whack to the palm got your flashlight glowing brightly.... 

Some say it was those big fat government contracts that supported them all these years. Well, that is true in one sense but... if it weren't for their design strengths the government may not have stuck with SureFire.


----------



## ven (Nov 4, 2016)

No trick question here guys, but do you think surefire have made the biggest contribution with their innovation in the last few decades , more so than any other manufacturer? Even 25 yrs on or more, their presence is strong with the classics and the p60 is in demand(maybe more so than" back in the day" of incans). Just thoughts, i missed out on their prime and still tying to catch up. But for hosts alone, they are certainly up there as fav lights of all time for me. Their size, flexibility although not class leading at any, but they offer best of all world options IMO. Not to mention all the copies, clones and other ideas taken.

I admit a few years back when i 1st read up on them a little, saw the prices and unremarkable outputs(you know, 60lm WHAT!! kind of thing). Ignorance played a large part, now i see the bigger picture and at the time class leading no doubt. Other than the p60 side, designs.........its hard to nail an exact part of the attraction for me. So it is the package deal, all in USA made, the rest is history(literally).


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 4, 2016)

Here's the way I see it Ven,

In 1908 a flashlight was made using a dry cell battery. Ever Ready gets the credit.

In 1910 tungsten was used in a filament. Suddenly lights could stay on for more than a flash at a time due to better runtimes and bulbs running much cooler... ie not poofing after 30 seconds or less. 

By 1920 lights had been loaned to policemen, used in coal mines and were in use all over the place. 

For the next 50 years quality improved, but production costs made many companies go for cheaper made products to sell them for less.

In the 1960's to 70's Don Keller built lights to withstand the abuse of bashing over a perps skull and keep going. New durability was now available. You had Kel, Mag, Streamlight, Bianchi and some others.

Batteries up to this point dictated what was what.

In 1988 the flashlight that used SLR camera batteries was invented. SureFire gets the credit. To me that was the beginning of where we are today. 
Somebody may have done an 18650 at some point if the SLR cell hadn't been done prior, but a tiny (compared to previous offerings) 6 volt flashlight changed it all. 

Arguably it is the battery holding back lights from getting mega bright in even smaller packages. 

When super capacitors become affordable (read less than $35 each) look for hundreds of lumens from double and triple a lights. 

The 6P designer PK may already have designs waiting for the batteries to catch up....


----------



## ven (Nov 4, 2016)

Thanks mr fixer, i like the.... in a nut shell, of the last century. 6v and the p60 format=winning formula it seems for the last 1/4.


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 5, 2016)

And beyond....

The P60 platform aint dun yet. lol


----------



## Unicorn (Nov 5, 2016)

In the age of incandescents they were the best, brightest, and most durable. Brighter than the big metal lights that had rings, holes, and uneven patterns. They were the only ones who made weapon light's... for a number of years they were the only ones at all, and even after a few other companies did, they were the only ones who even tried recoil mitigation to protect the lamp. 
With the cheap and common LEDs they have fallen aside a little bit. For just a small handheld, 2 cell, tubular, 5 inch light they are now on par with a lot of other companies. For just a daily carry, general use light they might not be the best for many people anymore. You can get the same output for less money.
They do have fantastic customer service even now though. And they do have some lights that are still filling roles others don't do as well. For pistol lights only them and Streamlight have lights with the output. They have more IR options for LE and military use. They are still the only ones making any sort of dedicated forend weapon lights for some long guns. A niche market for sure though, and they have cut down the product line a lot for those.


----------



## ven (Nov 5, 2016)

Thankfully mr fixer, i aint even got started yet I think there is many many years left in p60's , after all.............fit the latest LED/s and driver , your bang up to date! if not ahead in many cases compared to production lights. z2 with 20+ mode groups or even 50+ now with pretty much enough options for even the fussy in us. Complement this with your flavour of beam(and pattern)= timeless . Not only that, but lights like the 6p and c2 have a real nice form factor. Not too small, comfortable in hand and decent enough mass for high output options. Granted it will never win the throw championship, but for a pocket light...........its not bad at all


----------



## ven (Nov 5, 2016)

I was totally taken back Unicorn when i tried the incan 6p out. About as far away as I imagined being honest. Being used to the maglite of beams, i expected similar but ............well not as messy!. Pretty much a perfect tight hotspot, dim spill though, so not much use unfortunately for the majority of my uses. Still its there for a retro night


----------



## scout24 (Nov 5, 2016)

Ven- You want a bit more spill than the P60 offers? How about a bunch more brightness? Are one of your 6P/C2 hosts bored? Pop a P90 or P91 in there, with two 18350's. They're both glorious while they last...


----------



## ven (Nov 5, 2016)

scout24 said:


> Ven- You want a bit more spill than the P60 offers? How about a bunch more brightness? Are one of your 6P/C2 hosts bored? Pop a P90 or P91 in there, with two 18350's. They're both glorious while they last...



Cool , thanks for the info, will have to have a dabble at that! Yes one of the c2's and 6p's are bored, have a few IMR 16340's too for the standard body size.


----------



## Newlumen (Nov 5, 2016)

You guys know so much about surefire drop in.. i bought surefire z2 bored with high drai. Switch. I am looking to buy a drop in. I like throw version. Which one u guys recommend? Thanks


----------



## DellSuperman (Nov 5, 2016)

Newlumen said:


> You guys know so much about surefire drop in.. i bought surefire z2 bored with high drai. Switch. I am looking to buy a drop in. I like throw version. Which one u guys recommend? Thanks


XP-G2 dedomed with smooth reflector should give you as much throw as a P60 can offer..


----------



## Newlumen (Nov 5, 2016)

DellSuperman said:


> XP-G2 dedomed with smooth reflector should give you as much throw as a P60 can offer..



Thank you dell. I have p60 xpg2 on my 6p.. any other??


----------



## DellSuperman (Nov 5, 2016)

Newlumen said:


> Thank you dell. I have p60 xpg2 on my 6p.. any other??


Hmmm, XP-L HI can throw pretty well with more lumens too. If money is not an issue, u might wanna consider the OveReady M2 Turbo head.


----------



## Newlumen (Nov 5, 2016)

DellSuperman said:


> Hmmm, XP-L HI can throw pretty well with more lumens too. If money is not an issue, u might wanna consider the OveReady M2 Turbo head.



Thank you dell. I will look for xpl hi.. i like xpg2 very much. I like it better than quad mule..


----------



## DellSuperman (Nov 5, 2016)

Mules are awesome for close up work where glare can be such a PITA


----------



## ven (Nov 5, 2016)

Yes, iirc the xp-g2 de-dome is around 60kcd...................very impressive for the limited size.

For less throw and a cleaner tint, xpl HI


----------

