# EL forum



## Vbeez (Mar 15, 2005)

Hi guys, 
Is there any forum out there discussing more focus on Electroluminescent ? Any fellow cpfer can help me making
display with EL sheet ? Thanks guys. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif


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## Ken_McE (Mar 15, 2005)

The Coolwire people have one at:

http://www.thatscoolwire.com/forum/default.asp

but its pretty quiet there. What do you want to do with your sheet?


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## Vbeez (Mar 16, 2005)

You're right Ken.
Trying to make a running/dynamic sign board, flashing in sequence. I saw one flexible thin ad panel laminated with plastic sheet, its got a running sign (flashing in sequence). 
Can I use sticker cutting machine to cut EL sheet ? 
Got difficulty to cut the sheet properly. Any idea


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## billw (Mar 16, 2005)

http://www.coolight.com has some inexpensive sequencers for EL wire
that should work OK for EL sheet as well, maybe (it looks like the
wire tends to use higher voltages and frequencies than some sheet,
which may result in shorter life. YMMV, depending on the sheet,
I guess.) Working with the wire instead of sheet may be more
efficient overall; since you can form it instead of cutting and
throwing most of it away...


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## Vbeez (Mar 16, 2005)

El wire is much easier to work with, but I found it too thick for some application. Well, they all have plus and minus, depends on your application. Thanks Bill. 
Maybe I should search for EL backlighting on Google


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## billw (Mar 17, 2005)

Note that there is a relatively recent "thinner" EL wire available.
about 1mm diameter...


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## Vbeez (Mar 19, 2005)

It's 0.9 mm


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## billw (Mar 20, 2005)

The Lytec (Israeli) small wire claims to be 1.2mm, and the Elite2 (chinese) small wire claims to be 0.9mm. Thus "about 1mm."

Actually, I hadn't heard the chinese wire for sale before someone
mentioned Thatscoolwire. (aside from nasty comments without refernces from some of the Lytec distributers.)

Might have to try some


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## Ken_McE (Mar 20, 2005)

>Trying to make a running/dynamic sign board, flashing in sequence.

Is this a poster/sticker where different parts light up at different times?

>Can I use sticker cutting machine to cut EL sheet ? 

I am not familiar with sticker cutting machines. Mechanically an EL panel is just a sheet of plastic with some conducters in it. The EL panels I have seen have two leads going to them for the electrical supply. I understand that the panel as a whole is acting as a capacitor. When you cut your parts you would need to cut them so as to not break the electrical circuit. 

I have no panels here to check, but seem to recall that if I hold one up to the light one lead goes around the outside edge and one goes into the middle. I also don't know if you risk causing a short if you make a ragged cut.

>Got difficulty to cut the sheet properly. Any idea 

Are you doing one or two, or hundreds? For one or two I expect an exacto knife or scissors would do. You could also consider putting down a layer of uncut panels and putting cut out masks of any opaque material over them. The material does not have to be thick to be opaque. The whole panel would light up, but you would only see the shapes in the openings. You would then light the panels in sequence to get your running effect.

These people:

http://www.lightpanel.com/

make EL exit signs, although the panel is probably heavier than what you have in mind. I have spoken to them on the phone and found them helpful with EL questions.

If you are making large numbers of signs you might be able to get panels that either come precut or that have the interal circuit arranged so you can cut a particular shap without harm.


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## mezzman (Mar 21, 2005)

also try out the folks at Cool Neon, they supply a good range of raw EL wire and sequencers.

http://www.coolneon.com


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## Vbeez (Mar 21, 2005)

The Chinese are making everything now, EL wire, sheet, tape, El drivers, etc. Some are making good quality products, not all. 
I want to make this kind of EL panel :

http://electroluminescence-inc.com/ELsheets.htm

I manage to get one sample. They print the pictures & colours on tranparent film, put el sheet behind it. Then bonded or laminate them together. Simply back lighting. In some area the el sheets are cut into 2mm wide. 
With this stuff, your imagination is the limit


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## PhotonWrangler (Mar 21, 2005)

I've got one of their American Flag flexible badges. There's a company in the US that's marketing them along with a t-shirt with a slot cut through it to pass the power cable through. Their name escapes me at the moment...


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## billw (Mar 22, 2005)

> The Chinese are making everything now

My perception is that a lot of this is because the Chinese simply
ignore US (and international) intellectual property laws. :-(
Nichia and Lumileds tip-toe around trying not to be sued by each
other, while china ships $0.20 white LEDs via eBay. Sigh. Of course, I have SOME sympathy since the IP situation in the US and
elsewhere is clearly so out-of-control as to have become 'silly',
but in other cases ... For instance, the Lytex EL wire seems like
it has several aspects actually deserving of patents, and I have
little doubt that the chinese knock-off wire infringes on those
patents, and substantial doubts that they've licensed anything from
Lytec...


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## LED-FX (Mar 22, 2005)

Wtach out with cutting EL material, it dosn`t like moisture and will act as a magnet to it.

If you cut EL, tape/sheet/string make sure all the edges are sealed by laminating the finished item or using heatshrink and silicone on string etc.

EL material is formed with an electrode at the back, usually aluminsed mylar and a transparent electrode at the front,clear mylar coated in Indium Tin Oxide, ITO, same stuff is used for heated windscreens.With phosphor sandwiched inbetween.

Functions like a capacitor,if you increase frequency impedance falls and it glows brighter with a penalty in lifespan.

Adam


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## Vbeez (Mar 22, 2005)

LED-FX, 
Any cutting machine can cut EL sheet nicely ?


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## LED-FX (Mar 24, 2005)

Im guessing that sign cutter probably wont due to thickness of material, but possibly something heavy duty, may.

Steel die cutting or possibly laser cutting might be cost effective.

The ones you reference, would guess, are screenprinted:

http://www.dupont.com/mcm/pdfs/ELProcessingGuide.pdf

Original developer of EL string is Elam from Israel

http://www.elamusa.com/

HTH
Adam


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## Vbeez (Mar 28, 2005)

Thank you LED FX. 
Searching for cutting machine............ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif


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## LED-FX (Mar 28, 2005)

Would look further into screenprinting, sign cutting stuff out of sheet might be tricky, for detail.

Don`t think the screen ink system is cheap , but neither is slicing large sheets of EL.

Most screen systems are photo exposure nowadays, and it allows all colour overlays to be handled in the process.

Adam


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## Vbeez (Apr 3, 2005)

Just received a couple el badges from China supplier, 7 cm in diameter. Took of all the casing, looked at the el panel, complicated /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif
Definitely using a cutting machine.
Tricky to make, but very challenging


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## Ken_McE (Apr 3, 2005)

Are they bright enough to see in daylight?


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## PhotonWrangler (Apr 3, 2005)

Nope... they're barely bright enough to see in a brightly lit room. Brightness has never been one of EL's strengths, and the more you push the brightness the faster they deteriorate.


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## speciala (Apr 5, 2005)

I think most EL has an electrical busbar running around the perimeter. Theres something called flatlite that is made in long rolls and they say you can cut it with a scissors to any shape. anyone heard of it?


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## Vbeez (Apr 5, 2005)

Have to agree with you PhotonWrangler,..........but who need a brightly lit room if we a BRIGHT flashlights /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
Some manufacturer claim they have high brightness sheet, 
but have no idea know how bright they're. 
At present, I think ELs only good for poorly lit area, cause of their poor brightness. Have to wait for their NEXT GENERATION for the final frontier....BRIGHTER....BRIGHTER....LIGHTS


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## speciala (Apr 22, 2005)

check http://www.e-lite.com 
They offer what they claim is EL made on rolls up to 300' that can be custom cut and the connectors can be anywhere. I think they use aluminum as the back thus the bus bar is running over the entire back. may not be useful for your application.


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## PhotonWrangler (Apr 22, 2005)

There's a surplus place that had EL sheets for sale awhile back. I bought one that was around 6"x8" (maybe a little larger, I forget) for $20.00. Bought an EL power supply (same place) and mounted the sheet in a photo frame for a backlighted sign.

Call or write them and ask if they still have those larger pink (lights up white) EL sheets. They were a good bargain.


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## Vbeez (Apr 23, 2005)

E-lite got very interesting products. Looks cool. 

PW, that's good bargain. Can't find EL sheet on their website. I'll contact them to find out.
Curious about the sheet wiring/connection , it has kindda flexible bus bar on the back of the sheet & connect to inverter ?


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## billw (Apr 23, 2005)

If 5x9 inches is big enough to be interesting, see my review here:

http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=365&item=LCD-103

You may have to throw out a perfectly good LCD display, but it's only $8
(I don't think this would be cuttable at all, though. Metal backing.)


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## Vbeez (Apr 23, 2005)

Very interesting, indeed. What should I do the LCD ?
If the sheet stick to a metal plate, is it possible to take it off the metal plate ? How about inverter, bought from the same company ?


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## PhotonWrangler (Apr 23, 2005)

The sheet that I bought had 2 small pins at one end. I bought a 2-pin connector which plugged right onto the pins on the sheet.


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## Vbeez (Apr 23, 2005)

PW, is it possible to take the sheet off from the metal plate ? I think it's the same kind used for pager.


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## PhotonWrangler (Apr 23, 2005)

The sheet that I bought from Electronic Surplus wasn't attached to anything - it was just a flexible plastic sheet. I can't speak for the unit that's available from AllElectronics as I've never purchased one from them. Sorry.


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## billw (Apr 24, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Vbeez said:*
If the sheet stick to a metal plate, is it possible to take it off the metal plate ? How about inverter, bought from the same company ? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I use "metal plate" somewhat loosely. the whole thing is less than 1/16 inch thick,
and flexible enough to bend into a six inch cylinder. But it's not in the same 
class as the adhesive backed glow stuff from elsewhere, and definately not
intended to be 'cut to shape.'

I used an inverter from a computer case-mod EL tape kit, I think.
Or maybe one of the inverters from one of the EL wire suppliers.

You don't have to do anything with the LCD part...

BillW


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## Vbeez (Apr 24, 2005)

Thanks BillW. $ 8, sounds like fun. Can use for car trunk lighting. 
No use LCD part, no worries.....Just need brighter lights.


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## billw (Apr 25, 2005)

[ QUOTE ]
*Vbeez said:* Can use for car trunk lighting. 
No use LCD part, no worries.....Just need brighter lights. 

[/ QUOTE ]
I've never seen an EL display that I'd describe as "bright."

The CCFL backlights for similar LCDs like this one ($5)
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G9620
are MUCH brighter (but they're brighter still without all the
mechanical/optical parts designed to provide an even backlight
over a relatively large area. At which point you might as well just 
use a CCFL 'case mod' light...)

(makes a nice light box/tracing table, though. Have to add that picture to
my web page...)


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## Vbeez (Apr 25, 2005)

Nice stuff, can use it for photo frame or other backlighting aplication. Have to buy this one, too. 
Brightness is always main problem with presentday EL stuff, but....they're flexible .Hmmm, nothing is perfect /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## Vbeez (Apr 26, 2005)

Trying to make 12 volt EL inverter for constant light. Any schematic ?


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