# Flashlight O-Ring grease?



## Estapor (Sep 13, 2007)

Just a quick question... Since both all of my new lights are LED, I figured it would be OK to ask them here:

I've got two new dive lights (UK eled lights) and I wanted to make sure that I had some extra grease/lubricant on hand for the o-rings.

What type of waterproof grease do I need for this application? Would silicon grease be sufficient?

Thanks!


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## SenderGreen (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm new here too! 
Check out this thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=174497
It doesn't answer your question specifically, but different types of Silicone greases are discussed.
I would consider calling a dive shop and asking them what they recommend.
Good Luck.


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## bspofford (Sep 14, 2007)

I've been a SCUBA diver for 40 years and have used silicone grease from the dive shop for camera and flashlight o-rings. I recently found the exact same stuff in the same little tub at Home Depot for a fraction of the price. It is translucent white and is a little sticky. It's good to clean the groove with a soft toothbrush and roll the o-rings between your thumb and forefinger to get a light coating of silicone on the rings.


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## Richard L (Sep 14, 2007)

I think it is okay to use petroleum jelly (Vaseline) on most o-rings nowadays. They pretty much stopped manufacturing o-rings out of rubber after Richard Feynman discovered that it becomes brittle in extreme cold (which caused one of the NASA spacecraft disasters).

I've even used Vicks Vaporub on o-rings when I couldn't find the vasoline. No problems.

Richard


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## evanlocc (Sep 14, 2007)

Richard L said:


> I think it is okay to use petroleum jelly (Vaseline) on most o-rings nowadays...



YES! I have been in using it for years!


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## Torque1st (Sep 14, 2007)

I have used petroleum jelly also for years. Silicone dielectric grease (sparkplug grease) is OK also.


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## fasuto (Sep 14, 2007)

I recently read a recomendation for use bike lubricant X-ring / O-ring tested.
Dupont Teflon or Motorex 622 for example, avaiable at bike stores.
Member barbarin, who develops and manufacture dive lights, made some testing and recommends it.


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## Codeman (Sep 14, 2007)

Try the search function. We've had many threads that discuss lubricants.


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## orbital (Sep 14, 2007)

+

Since most o-rings are still rubber, Silicone grease really is the best.

http://www.efunda.com/designstandards/oring/oring_chemical.cfm?SC=none&SM=Natural%20Rubber#chem


**Remember, with Silicone o-rings;
use something like synthetic grease,
not silicone on silicone. :thumbsup:


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## TigerhawkT3 (Sep 14, 2007)

There are a few links to lube threads in the Welcome Mat.


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## Curious_character (Sep 14, 2007)

bspofford said:


> I've been a SCUBA diver for 40 years and have used silicone grease from the dive shop for camera and flashlight o-rings. I recently found the exact same stuff in the same little tub at Home Depot for a fraction of the price. It is translucent white and is a little sticky. It's good to clean the groove with a soft toothbrush and roll the o-rings between your thumb and forefinger to get a light coating of silicone on the rings.


Silicone grease is used for sealing faucet O-rings against water under pressure, so plumber's silicone grease would seem ideal for the purpose. I've found it in the plumbing supply section of Home Depot and similar stores, and I assume it's what you found. I prefer to use Nyogel for everyday applications, because plumber's grease is more viscous and makes things harder to turn. But I'll bet plumber's grease makes a better seal for water under pressure.

c_c


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## Torque1st (Sep 14, 2007)

Most commercial application O-Rings are Buna-N or Nitrile not rubber.

Buna-N Data

Vaseline (petroleum jelly) or silicone work.

Silicone dielectric grease comes in a handy tube that keeps the contents clean. Various size tubes are available at any automotive parts store.

The lubricant used is just that, a lubricant. The O-ring is the seal.


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## bspofford (Sep 14, 2007)

Curious_character said:


> Silicone grease is used for sealing faucet O-rings against water under pressure, so plumber's silicone grease would seem ideal for the purpose. I've found it in the plumbing supply section of Home Depot and similar stores, and I assume it's what you found. I prefer to use Nyogel for everyday applications, because plumber's grease is more viscous and makes things harder to turn. But I'll bet plumber's grease makes a better seal for water under pressure.
> 
> c_c


 
Actually, I use both. I remove the o-rings, brush the groove with a soft toothbrush, coat the o-ring with silicone grease, put the o-ring back in place, wipe the threads with a microfiber wipe, and apply Nyogel to the threads. I use only silicone grease on the other o-rings in the head but no Nyogel.


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## Curious_character (Sep 14, 2007)

bspofford said:


> . . .I use only silicone grease on the other o-rings in the head but no Nyogel.


Interesting. Why not?

c_c


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## Curious_character (Sep 15, 2007)

Torque1st said:


> . . .The lubricant used is just that, a lubricant. The O-ring is the seal.


That's a very good point.

I once replaced the rubbery gasket at the bottom of a ceramic toilet tank, where it mated with the ceramic toilet. Each time I bolted the pieces together, it leaked. So I unbolted it, fiddled a bit, bolted it again a little tighter, and it still leaked. I repeated this several times until I knew I was going to break the ceramic or shear off the bolt heads. (As you can tell, I know just about nothing when it comes to plumbing.) But then I got an idea -- something I'm sure every plumber learns the first week on the job if not the first day. I smeared silicone grease on the gasket and tried again. Sealed fine, with very little torque on the bolts. Like an O-ring, the gasket was the seal. But what the lubricant did was allow it to move into place where it could do its job. Does O-ring lubricant do the same thing? That is, are there situations where it leaks without the lubricant but doesn't leak once the lubricant is applied?

c_c


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## Torque1st (Sep 15, 2007)

Hmmmm, I have replaced many toilet tank gaskets and never had that problem. The only thing I can think of that would have caused a problem like that would be if one of the sealing surfaces was very rough (chipped or dirty) and the seal would not conform to the surface. A lubricant/grease would maybe make that seal but any pressure would displace the lubricant and allow it to leak again. Every surface has irregularities tho, even the O-Ring itself. Some lubricants will attack the seal material softening it, -perhaps to the point of allowing it to conform to a surface. Usually this situation is avoided because it can cause seal failure later.

O-Rings and seals are chosen for material and conformability, often called durometer. A high durometer material (hard) would not conform to surface irregularities as well as a low durometer material (soft). The high durometer material would not squeeze out under pressure tho. Material selections are often a compromise.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durometer


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## yaesumofo (Sep 15, 2007)

Many years of experimentation and use have yielded these results:

Magnalube is a fantastic product.
So is Nanolube.
I am now using Magnalube on the O-rings and Nanolube on the threads.
This combination yields as close to perfect results as a person can ask for.
This combination also represents the best 2 part combination available. Both substances represent the leading edge in their respective technologies.
These are the only chemicals I will ever use on my lighting equipment....Until something better comes along..Doubtful.
Have a look at 
Magnelube.com
and nanolube.com
You will then understand.
The use of silicone is very YESTERDAY.
Nanolube and Magnalube is TODAY.
Yaesumofo


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## EXPY (Sep 15, 2007)

When I got a Fenix CREE last Spring, the emitter head was starting to gall after a few uses out of the box.

I removed it, cleaned the mating threads [there was some aluminum debris on them] lubed with DowCorning silcone grease, number 44 IIRC, and screw things back together. It made thing worse, and the galling feel was still there. 

Not wanting to ruin a new FL, I wiped off the threads and applied ordinary synthetic grease Mobil 1 that I use to service my trailer bearing, truck, etc.

It worked great and the light is my everyday carry. No problems for, what, about 5 months of everyday use.


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## Barbarin (Sep 15, 2007)

fasuto said:


> I recently read a recomendation for use bike lubricant X-ring / O-ring tested.
> Dupont Teflon or Motorex 622 for example, avaiable at bike stores.
> Member barbarin, who develops and manufacture dive lights, made some testing and recommends it.


 
Hello, 

We like that kind of greases for serveral reasons.

1. They are adhesive, so they don't wear easily.
2. They have micronized teflon, which acts as antiseize, so under pressure even when the liquid grease is displaced the teflon will stay there. This feature is very important for diving.
3. They are o-ring tested. 

You can imagine a chain on a 100 HP bike moving at 100 mph, under heavy rain, in summer. The grease is suffering "spin-dry" forces, water jets... those greases are really good.
We have done testing switching on and off our lights by twisting the tailcaps at -50 m. The effort you have to do is much stronger when using silicone grease.

Of course this happens with our lights, they are anodized on the thread to allow them last longer, and the electrical contact is on the base, designed in such a way that excess of grease will be displaced. I don't know how will it work with other lights, maybe it is too dielectric or adhesive.

Javier


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## Torque1st (Sep 15, 2007)

Magnalube is a Teflon based product. The suspended Teflon in a petroleum or silicon base used in many lubricants is very good and will stay in place. If the threads are under high pressure as in a diving application it may help to have the Teflon in place. It takes tremendous pressure to displace lubricants once applied. How deep are we diving with our lights tho??? A light specifically manufactured for diving underwater may be a better choice than a standard LED flashlight.

We really must understand one thing tho. -Nothing will really fix poorly manufactured threads with burs or corrosion left in them from the anodizing process. The only thing to do is clean the threads and return them to the proper size and form. Mostly tho you are just SOL if the aluminum threads are messed up. A lubricant may help and repeated turning may grind or tear off the misshapen parts but not repair them.

Nanolube sounds like snake oil, is marketed and hyped like snake oil, -probably IS snake oil. If it walks like a duck and smells like a duck... I would not use it unless I knew what was in it otherwise there may be compatibility problems.

Some of the other industrial lubes are great, just hard to get and usually high $$ when other things like silicone grease and Vaseline are readily available, cheap, and very effective on properly manufactured parts.


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## Stromberg (Oct 14, 2007)

I have small tube of "Unick Silicone heat transfer compound" that is normally used between electronic components and heatsinks. Can anyone recommend using that for o-rings?


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## Gladius01 (Oct 14, 2007)

As alot of people in this tread mentions about Vaseline, I used Vaseline and it works fine for me and I don't have any problem at all and it is cheap and you can get this almost every where. Also I used motorbike chain lube.


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## Stromberg (Oct 14, 2007)

Does anyone know what kind of o-rings Fenix use? Is it safe to use vaseline, e.g. I have "Klover vaseline" lip balm that is made of petrolatum(petroleum?)?

http://www.unilever.com/pioti/DA/p4.asp?selectCountry=DK&language=DA&productid=1629199


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## Curious_character (Oct 14, 2007)

Stromberg said:


> I have small tube of "Unick Silicone heat transfer compound" that is normally used between electronic components and heatsinks. Can anyone recommend using that for o-rings?


Although it might be ok, you can surely do better. The primary function of a thermal compound isn't to lubricate but to aid in transferring heat. The primary reason for greasing an o-ring is to lubricate it.

c_c


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## Torque1st (Oct 14, 2007)

Stromberg said:


> I have small tube of "Unick Silicone heat transfer compound" that is normally used between electronic components and heatsinks. Can anyone recommend using that for o-rings?


I would not use the thermal compound. It is not a good lubricant. The silicone carrier migrates away leaving a thick white paste that would act more like glue than a lubricant.

Most O-rings are made from Buna-N material, safe with petroleum products. There are other types of materials but they are only used for special applications where some exotic chemical is involved. When in doubt, think Buna-N first.


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## Khaytsus (Oct 14, 2007)

I suggest you try *one* o-ring with a lubricant first, and make sure you can replace it first.

I tried a random lubricant on a Fenix o-ring and it doubled in size in a few minutes. I have yet to find a replacement for it at a hardware store, but the 47's at the Fenix Store helped me out.

Next time I order from there I'll get the lubricant he's selling.. Doesn't insulate electricity and a good lubricant. I don't have dozens of lights to lube so it should last me quite a while.


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## jzmtl (Oct 14, 2007)

bspofford said:


> I've been a SCUBA diver for 40 years and have used silicone grease from the dive shop for camera and flashlight o-rings. I recently found the exact same stuff in the same little tub at Home Depot for a fraction of the price. It is translucent white and is a little sticky. It's good to clean the groove with a soft toothbrush and roll the o-rings between your thumb and forefinger to get a light coating of silicone on the rings.



This is what I use too, its called dielectrical grease/tune up grease/spark plug grease at automotive section and only a few bucks for a tube size of toothpaste.


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## Torque1st (Oct 14, 2007)

Careful of "random" lubricants. Many have solvents in them meant to aid penetration etc that will swell O-rings and other seals.


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## Bort (Oct 14, 2007)

I use Teflon grease that I puchased at a swimming pool supply house. It is designed specifically for o-rings, and is very reasonably priced. It makes the threads unscrew very smoothly for aluminum to aluminum threads compared to silicone dielectric grease. I also use this stuff for all of the o rings on an engine powered by Methanol, and it works well. Methanol is extremely corrosive ,and is brutal on rubber, and synthetic rubber products.


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## Stromberg (Oct 14, 2007)

Thanks Curious_character and Torque1st. I'll get some silicone grease so I can be sure that I don't ruin the o-rings.


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## ikelo (Oct 14, 2007)

http://www.gunk.com/product_images/LG_GR2V.JPG i find this works well. i get it at lowes.


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## afterglow (Oct 14, 2007)

A stupid question just came into my mind: Would jig-a-loo be a good lubricant for flashlights?


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## Spence (Oct 14, 2007)

I use something no one has mentioned yet, WHITE LITHIUM GREASE. I use a Q-tip to apply it, carefully, to the threads and to the O-rings. Because it's white, it's easy to see and clean up. It turns rough metalic threads to turn smoothly, and I like smooth. Nobody on CPF has criticized it yet.


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## Torque1st (Oct 14, 2007)

Spence said:


> I use something no one has mentioned yet, WHITE LITHIUM GREASE. I use a Q-tip to apply it, carefully, to the threads and to the O-rings. Because it's white, it's easy to see and clean up. It turns rough metalic threads to turn smoothly, and I like smooth. Nobody on CPF has criticized it yet.


White lithium, like any light petroleum based grease, would work well. It is cheap and readily available, just not as common in regular households as Vaseline.


Jig-a-loo is one of those "random" lubricants with an exceptionally large solvent composition. Personally I would not use it.
From the MSDS:
Hazardous Ingredients____% 
-------------------------------------
METHYLENE CHLORIDE____30-60 
PERCHLOROETHYLENE____10-30 
ISOBUTANE_____________7-13 
PROPANE_______________5-10


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## Bror Jace (Oct 14, 2007)

Yes, a bazillion threads here about greases and lubricants. Search feature brings them up easily using either word. 

I've used white lithium grease on o-rings for paintball cylinders, both compressed air and CO2 ... had some of them last for years while other people I played with would replace their o-rings after just a couple of fills because they used gun oil on theirs. :shakehead

The lastest and greatest lubricant for o-rings is DuPont Krytox. It came out of one of the space programs. 100% Krytox is frighteningly expensive but many different lubes are formulated with _some portion_ of this amazingly stable grease. 

I use Leslies Pool & Spa o-ring grease with Krytox:

http://www.lesliespool.com/shopping...DUCT&iMainCat=629&iSubCat=643&iProductID=8728


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## Albinoni (Jan 19, 2008)

Is it ok to put a very small amount of grease/lube around the thread of the cap where you unscrew to put the batteries in, thing is one of my torches works fine but when I unscrew the battery cap I get a very slight sqeaking sound, nothing bad or serious.


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## DM51 (Jan 19, 2008)

This is a totally absurd thread, containing some of the stupidest and most fatuous suggestions yet on this already grossly over-worked subject. 

Divers, and anyone else who wants to keep their light waterproof and free from O-ring failure, should always use silicone grease. Period.

Thread closed.


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