# Backpacking: Blackdiamond Revolt or Petzl Actik (core?)?



## Lookas (Jul 24, 2017)

Dear ones, I am new to this forum and I hope to get help for this choice.
I am going to travel long term, a "find yourself" trip.
Choosing a Headlamp brought me to these two (or three) options.
I have zero experience with lamps, so it is very difficult for me to imagine how many Lumen I may need for walking of for seeing where I am, camping, tent etc.
It seems to me that the Revolt has a nice offer, 6, 40, 70, or 175 Lumen. 40 are, for my actual (internet based) understanding, ok for walking, and I would have 30hrs autonomy. Or 20, with 70 Lumen. I miss the 300 Lumen, because I plan using only rechargeable batteries, but I doubt I need that much light for walking.
With the Actik, I can only choose between 5 or 100 Lumen. No idea if 5 are enough for walking (they write 7mts distance, it sounds ok for walking, but I have no idea). And for 100 Lumen the Actik Core gives me only 7hrs (9hrs with the normal Actik, I was told).
So I am not having an easy time deciding.
I like the possibility of charging the Core Battery while using the Lamp with another Core Battery. With the Revolt I can't use the Lamp while charging. But I can have a second set of batteries...
Said like this, it seems to me that the Revolt can give me more versatility. I would get more autonomy than with the Actik, in the Lumen I suppose I will use the most (40/70).
If 5 Lumen would be enough for walking, on the other side, the Actik would be a better choice.

How do you see it, with your greater experience?

Thanks for the help!


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## terjee (Jul 24, 2017)

I haven't been keeping up to speed in the last couple of years, but I wanted to drop a quick few generic remarks that still holds.

First off, it's incredibly difficult to say how many lumens are enough lumens, there are just too many variables. Other light-sources affecting your night vision is one thing, but a more focused beam would also need less lumens than one that spreads it out more evenly, then there's the speed at which you move, terrain, and so on. For this reason, it can make sense to go about it in a budgeting/margin-kind of way, thinking "I'll certainly need no more than 100", then appreciate the battery saving for the moments when you can get by with less.

Also, you can have 300 lumens. An 18650-based headlamp can give you 300+ lumens for around 4 hours, meaning typically zero or one battery swap pr. night, depending. Using an 18650 battery is also very nice for recharging while using, as the batteries and chargers are very easy to get ahold of, and you also have really compact chargers like the Nitecore F1, which almost just wraps around the battery, and charges from MicroUSB.

I'm not sure what your budget looks like, but you mention "long term", which makes me think about durability and quality. One light that keeps turning up on recommendation-lists for headlamps are the zebralights. These are not cheap, but they're often highly recommended. If the money isn't a dealbreaker, I'd look at Zebralight H600w MK III XHP35 Neutral White Headlamp. That's got a bit of a narrow center spot, giving it more throw. The H600Fw is a more floody version of otherwise the same light. Most would tend to recommend neutral white over cold white, and some strongly recommend it. Personally I've just ordered a H600Fw, because I wanted a bit of a more floody light, and I've always got a more throwy handlight with me to check out terrain further ahead. If I did less walking and more running, I'd probably want the less floody H600W instead.

Normally I hesitate to recommend the Zebralights without knowing it's within budget, but the combination of "long term" and already looking at fairly expensive lights made me figure I should at least mention them.

If you do go that route, then be a bit careful when ordering 18650 batteries. There isn't often trouble, but there can be some physical differences (flat top vs. button top, various lengths) that could land you with a battery that doesn't fit. Also, do use quality vendors, there are some fakes out there on eBay etc.

Oh, and finally, 18650s are becoming a bit of a "go to" battery-size these days. Having a headlamp that supports them would also set you up nicely for later adding in handhelds using the same batteries, and so on. These to *not* have to break the bank, you can get decent ones for $10 - $15 (Convoy S2+ comes to mind).


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## iamlucky13 (Jul 24, 2017)

40 lumens is a pretty good rough general ballpark for hiking on normal trails. I'm actually comfortable on most surfaces with 5 lumens or so if it's fully dark out, and it's a very nice level for around camp where you don't need much light, but around twilight, that seems very dim. However, I don't think most users are comfortable walking with 5 lumens, so I don't recommend it as a baseline. It's also nice to have 150+ lumens available to see further down the trail from time to time, or for extra visibility on really rough ground.

The appropriateness of these values varies depending how concentrated the beam is, but it's a good starting place my opinion. Also, I think you should be aware that both lights will dim significantly over their stated runtimes. The Petzl is regulated and will maintain its starting brightness for a few hours then has a fairly quick step down to a lower level, while the Black Diamond just gradually gets dimmer over a longer period of time. I have an older similar headlamps. You don't notice it getting dimmer, but then at some point you start to think you should change or charge the batteries and are surprised how much brighter it is with a fresh set.

It never hurts having 300 lumens or more as long as you have good lower modes to preserve battery life (and night vision) when not needed, and some users insist on these higher outputs, but I've always been fine without.

So my preference is the additional mode choices of the Black Diamond rather than the higher output of the Petzl.

Also, I think the Core battery is a nice idea, but it wouldn't be worth the price to me. If I had an Actik, I'd just use regular NiMH rechargeables, and carry a spare set with me for longer trips.

I could say a lot more if you're interested in alternatives that aren't sold in most stores, but are readily available online and more versatile in my opinion. That includes the Zebralights that terjee mentioned. However, there's probably millions of happy Black Diamond and Petzl users out there, so I don't want to unnecessarily complicate the choices for you if you prefer to keep the choice simple.


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## Lookas (Jul 25, 2017)

Thanks to the both of you 

The Zebra is a bit heavier than the Actik, but I see the advantages, although the Actik (the normal one) would give me 60hrs in 100lm, which is not bad.
Anyway, I am tempted, yes.
Could you give me an idea of the diference between the floody and the beam models of that Zebra? I suppose that the floody has a diffused light while the beam a more direct and hard light, with the typical spot in the mid (12°) and a softer circle around? But does that mean that the floody will disturp people around me?
And, how far do they reach in the different lm modes?

I do not want toooooooooooo many options, you are right, but I am open to some more suggestions.
Ideally I am looking for something light, reasonably resistant, reasonably waterproof (at least rain), and which give me a good autonomy in the range 0-50, and 50-100, which, I suppose, is what I am going to use the most for walking and seeing around in the camp.

Thanks!


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## iamlucky13 (Jul 25, 2017)

Hi Lookas - I think it's worthwhile to clarify something. No 3 x AAA powered light can produce 100 lumens for anywhere near 60 hours. The technology for that just doesn't exist. Most light runtimes are rated according to an international standard called ANSI FL1. The standard allows the run time to be stated as how long it takes for the light to dim to 1/10th it's original brightness. This means the light can dim quite a bit before the runtime counts as ended.

Some lights are well-regulated and produce roughly the same light level until the batteries are almost empty. Others are unregulated and continuously but slowly dim over the life of the light. Others are in between and may initially produce a constant light level, but then drop down in power. I think the Actik is like the last type. So it may still produce some usable light for 60 hours, but it will have dimmed quite a bit from 100 lumens. I wish Petzl and other manufacturers would give more clear information about the performance of their lights over time.

As for the beams, there's great German forum where one of the members has taken beamshots of over 1000 lights in the same location to make it easier to compare beams:
http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/t...s-mit-lampenbildern.27575/page-11#post-577839
Here's two pictures comparing one of their "floody" headlamps to one of their standard beam headlamps that is otherwise identical. As you can see, you get more even lighting over a wider field of view, but don't get as much distance with the the floody. I don't think the floody will be significantly more disturbing to people around you, but perhaps slightly more if you're careful where you point it.

H52Fw Floody:
https://abload.de/img/comp_3p11704960qr6h.jpg

H52w Standard:
http://abload.de/img/h52w53pbj.jpg

I think another good suggestion are the products from Fenix and Nitecore. They're a level in between Petzl and Zebralight, in my opinion. They're well-regulated lights with good water protection, and multiple modes, but usually less expensive and simpler to user than Zebralight. The Fenix HL23 runs on one AA battery has 3 modes up to 150 lumens. A very comparable light from another manufacturer is the Thrunite TH20, which instead of a fixed number of modes has continuously adjustable brightness from 2 lumens to 230 lumens. These 1 x AA lights have generally similar performance to 3 x AAA lights. The Fenix HL30 and HL35 and Nitecore HA20 all run on 2 x AA's for slightly higher output and more runtime, but are also heavier.

Two other interesting lights are the Fenix HL26R and the Nitecore NU30. These have built-in USB-rechargeable batteries that give them very good performance while keeping the weight low. The main downside to these two lights is the batteries are not replaceable if they wear out.


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## terjee (Jul 25, 2017)

I think iamlucly13 answered well on the questions. Just wanted to add that while I did (and do) recommend the Zebralights, that was in part to put it on your horizon, not "this is the one to get". If you want rugged durability and swappable 18650s, they're great, but the other options are good as well. At a certain point it's not about which light is "best", but about personal preferences. A Petzl can be smaller and lighter for examples, which might be important to you, and is entirely fair to value. 

Personally I have a thing about rugged durability and changeable parts (the batteries for example), but someone else might prefer buying two lights for half the price.

There's also something to be said for not going "all in" with little experience. If you do buy a Petzl now, you're bound to learn more about what you like and dislike in a headlamp, and you'll make a more informed decision on your next one. 

As a bit it of an apropos, please do keep a decent quality backup light as well. All lights eventually fail, and being stuck with none is usually a bad options. Several people on this forum are bicycling at night, and I think most of them are now running with two lights *on*, in case of failure.


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## Lookas (Jul 26, 2017)

Hi 

Yes, I understand your points.
I will think about it.
Anyway, I was browsing the possibilities, Zebra, Nitecore, Fenix...
I was trying to find one with the best autonomy in the lm I need the most, and the lightest weight.
Then I have seen that Nitecore makes three different 3400 18650 batteries, the NL 189 and 1834, which I can't understand in what they differ, and the 1834R with mini USB port and which does not weight more than the others. So, I would like to know if you have experience with that, because if they perform as good as the normal 1834 I may define the choice of the lamp basing on this. I mean, if I have a battery with usb port, I do not need a charger, and I can buy a lamp without usb port like the nitecore HC30, which weights less than the HC60. But if this 1834R does not perform well, and I need a 189 or whatever, then a HC30 plus charger would weight more than a HC60 (which has got its own usb port).
Thanks!


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## terjee (Jul 26, 2017)

First up, Nitecore doesn't actually make any batteries themselves. They're rewrapping the batteries of one or more other vendors, adding some electronics as well.

Secondly, neither of those batteries are stellar performers. Their maximum discharge current is unusually low (1A), which is often associated with a high voltage sag, meaning that while they might be 3400mAh batteries, the low voltage protection or stepdown in your light would kick in earlier in the discharge cycle than they would with "stronger" batteries.

This is also where things get a bit weird. The rating (3400mAh in this case) is typically based on a 0.5A discharge test. The higher the load, the less energy you can extract from a battery. This gets worse the "weaker" a battery is. If you have a weak 3400mAh battery, and a strong 2800mAh battery for example, at a certain load the 2800mAh battery will actually last you longer than the weak 3400mAh battery.

Now, to bring that back into practical terms... If you get a HC60 and one of those batteries, then run the light at full power, you'd drain the battery in one hour (based on the spec). Very roughly speaking that means you'd have a 3A load (spending about 3000mAh in an hour). The batteries are only rated for 1-2A, so you're already above that. You'd then spend 6 hours recharging it in the light (while not using the light). Or in the case of NL1834R, hours charging the battery externally.

What you could do instead, is get a battery with a lower mAh-rating, but a higher A-rating. That would almost certainly give you a longer real-world runtime.

A quick word on chargers first. I'd really like to urge you to look at the Nitecore F1. It's just 30 grams, it's very cheap, and it'd let you charge almost any 18650 cell, so you wouldn't have to worry about external charging. Doubles up by allowing you to use the 18650s as powerbanks as well. There's also the F2 for double batteries. If you want faster charging, then there's the Nitecore SC-series, which are larger, heavier and more expensive, but faster.

Back to batteries, and a quick word on chemistries. IMR, ICR and NCR, those are good words. They're somewhat safer than other battery chemistries, but they're also good performers. They're batteries where you'd notice less capacity loss as the load goes up. Especially for a headlamp, I'm opting for that safety myself. Nitecore offers some as well, such as a 3100mAh version, that almost certainly would outperform the 3400mAh-batteries you mentioned. Exception being if you're only ever running with low load, in which case the capacity reduction and safety would both be somewhat less of a concern, but given that the difference is only 300mAh (less than 10%), I'd still opt for the safer battery.

The primary (some would argue only) advantage of buying flashligh-branded batteries, is that it can increase the risk of a physical fit. If nitecore recommends a specific battery for a specific headlamp, obviously the battery would fit. Other than that, you can often get better and cheaper at the same time, by looking at other batteries.

Of the Nitecore batteries, I'd probably get the IMR 3100mAh battery. If money is no object, my favourite battery to recommend is probably the Keepower 3400mAh, which is NCR-chemistry with protection circuit. It costs a bit, but spread over a few years of usage, that's often not really a problem. Only caveat as that the batteries would have to physically fit the light as well. For the Nitecore, that should be easy to check with them. Add a F1 (or F2) charger, and you could then go with the HC30 over the HC60, saving the weight, or at least getting it off of your head.


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## BloodLust (Jul 26, 2017)

I have some Black Diamond, Petzl, and Princeton Tec headlamps.
The one I use most is still my Fenix HL21. 1x AA with 3,47,97 lumens. Has a diffuser for it to go from spot to flood.
I like the LED centered and runs on AA so I'm picking up a Fenix HL35. Runs on 2xAA or 2x14500.
0.5, 30, 70, 200 lumens with 450 lumens turbo.
Decent enough mode spacing for output and runtime.
Regulated and comes in neutral white.

Was thinking of getting the right angle lights with headstraps but I do like the light source centered (just my preference) and I carry a pocket light anyway.


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## terjee (Jul 26, 2017)

I've actually decided on getting a Fenix HL35 myself. While I want 18650 for my primary light, I do also want the option of using AA-batteries, since they're the other type of battery's I'll have with me, for GPS for example. Also, the Zebras does not have a low red light like the HL35 has, making the HL35 nice for dual-use (backup, and inside tent without killing night vision).


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## Lookas (Jul 27, 2017)

So, dears.
I have narrowed the choice to: Fenix HM50R, Zebra H32Fw, Zebra H600Fw MKIII.
The Fenix (which has got incorporated USB charger) plus two 16340 batteries (one as backup) would weight around 100grs, and exactly as much as the Zebra 32 + 2 batteries (also 16340) and a F1. They perform similarly (correct me if I am wrong), with each being better at something (and the Fenix having a slightly better IP rating). But if I choose the Zebra I can use it while one battery charges (and, with the F1 I can charge my phone too, slower than with the original fast adaptive charger, but I can).
The Zebra 600 is of course the one with more autonomy and more power. But it would weight the exact double.
I am not sure if I need that.
Do I?
Why?
When could be a Zebra 32 (with two batteries) not enough?
If I get lost many days in a jungle?


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## terjee (Jul 27, 2017)

First up: I think either of those would make you happy. They are solid choices, and should serve you well.

A couple of things that could tilt the scale:

Check your sources for 16340 batteries. They're a fairly common type, but not nearly as common or easy to get as the 18650s. If you can find a comforting amount of shops selling them, then it's all good. For the 18650s, you can get new batteries in just about any vape shop as well, since it's the primary battery size for them. That gives you a huge set of brick and mortar options as well. Might not matter, and you could always stock up on 16340, but I figured I should mention. 

Next up is weight vs. runtime. Running at the same lumens, the 18650-light would give you a significantly longer runtime. It's hard to put that in practical terms though, since it depends so much on how you'd use the lights. I'd try to make a rough guess though, about how many lumens you think you'll use, and for how long, then check the spec. If you're confident that you could go all night on a single 16340, then go for the lower weight. If you think you'd need multiple battery swaps pr. night with 16340, but could go a whole night with 18650, that's a good argument towards 18650. 

The Fenix mentions 2.5 hours of 500 lumens, and 10 hours of 130 lumens. If what you really want is more than 300 lumens, the 18650 zebralight a probably wins (4.3 hours), but if 130 lumens is enough, 16340 might be quite alright.

Between the two 16340 lights, is "get both" an option? 

Would be nice having a primary and a backup, both able to use the same set of batteries. 

On a more serious note, both should be good choices, and personal preference starts to win out. I'd personally probably pick the zebra, for higher rating, arguably nicer UI, and an even better reputation. Like I mentioned above here, I'm getting a Fenix myself though, as backup for a Zebralight.

Oh, and I did notice that of the 16340 lights, Fenix claims longer runtimes for same lumen levels, but I'd expect them to be closer with real world performance. The Zebra has significantly longer runtime with lower levels though.


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## iamlucky13 (Jul 27, 2017)

A CR123A powered headlamps would last me a couple days per battery of typical after dark activities while hiking, if camping at night. If I were spending most of the night doing things though, and sleeping during the day, it might only be 1-2 days. If you like to light your way up bright, or planning long trips, you might go through batteries faster than I do and would want to consider the H600Fw. Otherwise I think the two smaller models should be good.

Fenix's runtime claims look exaggerated to me. I'd expect very similar performance to the Zebralight in similar modes. Both companies know how to make efficient drivers.

I'd expect the Fenix to have slightly longer throw and the Zebralight to have a slightly broader beam.

The Zebralight has a more complex interface. It gives you lots of mode options, including ultra low modes for fully dark-adjusted eyes,, but can take some getting used to. If you like having the extra options, I'd say go for the Zebralight. If you prefer an easier-to-use interface, I'd say go for the Fenix.


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## Lookas (Jul 28, 2017)

Hmmm, difficult to say.
I do not know what will happen in the journey. And never did such a journey with tent before.
I can only say, I do not plan to do long walks at night, or regularly do things all night long. I will mostly walk during the day and camp at sunset. Eventually it can happen that I may need to walk a bit at night sometimes, who knows, but not long and not regularly. And when I camp I would just use the light to move a bit near the tent and to see what I do, which I suppose (from what you told me) that I can do also with low LM. 
I do not plan to be alone in the wild, far from charging options, for long time, but it may happen that at some point I will want to be 2-3 days, even one week, who knows, just lost somewhere. But in that case I will probably just stay in a place, and follow the natural rhythms, so, I would not need much autonomy, I guess (difficult to say without real field experience).
Yes, the 600 could maybe with 2 batteries give me all that. But, who knows. And on the other side, the 600 can only be used with the 18650 batteries which are not to be found everywhere, while the other two can also work with CR123A batteries, which I suppose should be easier to find in shops also in smaller cities (but, who knows), and so if I see that I plan a longer trip far from civilization I could just get a supply of CR123A for that occasion.
Eventually I could buy a solar panel charger which I read the F1 and F2 are capable of using to charge. And in that case it is more weight, and so, better if I have a lighter lamp.
About how many LM, that was my original question, so, I have no idea, but, from what you told me, I was convinced that I can walk with 20-40LM. So that I am basing this purchase on the idea that I would use the lamp with those LM most of the time. If then those LM should be way too few and I would need to use the lamp always at 100, I may have a problem... But, from what you said, I believe I'll be fine.

What I am noticing now, I just went for the floody Zebra because you wrote that a floody is ok for walking and a not floody is better for running, and I do not like lamps with a strong narrow beam, I prefer a diffused light, and I supposed that if I need to look further for a while, I can just put the lamp at max LM.
Is this correct?

I also notice, the Zebra 32 says 33grs weight, but that is probably without headband. So, at the end it weights probably as much as the Fenix. And in that case I am not sure what I want to do. If they weight the same, maybe it is meaningful to buy the Fenix which gives me the chance of incorporated charger (and I can still buy the F1).
The Fenix does not appear to be floody though. I see the pictures and it has got the typical centre beam with softer circle around...

Mumble mumble.


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## marinemaster (Jul 28, 2017)

I always look at ZL as the original and others as copies. I would get the original. I had push back from Fenix about warranty. They still did not service my Fenix lights after repeated attempts. For warranty alone, if needed I would get the ZL.


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## terjee (Jul 28, 2017)

When looking at the Zebras, keep in mind that there's both H52Fw and H52w, floody and non-floody.

For your use, I'd really go for a floody light. Like you said, you can run it a bit higher to see a bit further, and it's (in my opinion) significantly more comfortable around the camp. It can suck to use a non-floody light when looking for things and navigating around camp. Some non-floody lights have enough spill that you might still be okay.

For walking slowly I'd still prefer a floods light, so you light the area before you, not just a narrow part of the path.

Another thought on this:

Do NOT go out there with just one light, it's surprisingly dangerous. You need a backup light, or things can turn bad very fast. If you'll have at least two lights, that opens you up to thinking about them as a matched pair. With floody being good for both around the camp and walking, get a floody headlamp, and a throwy secondary light. Then you can use the secondary when you need to see further. 

This also works out nicely with regards to battery usage, since you can run the headlight at a lower setting, and rely on occasional use of the thrower when you need to scan ahead. That way the constant light is the low one, and the more powerful is only used momentarily, saving the battery of both.

Take the H52Fw over the H52w, but compare to the Fenix with regards to flood/spot.

Would your budget allow you to get an XT11S, XT11GT or XT12GT? (All of them Klarus). If so, they'd be a good choice for a secondary light, mostly throw.


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## terjee (Jul 28, 2017)

About battery availability:
CR123 should be easier to find than 18650
18650 easier to find than 16340

Some have reported prices going up for CR123, and availability going down, some have reported not seeing that at all. I think it might be a US vs. Europe thing, with them remaining available in the US, less so in Europe. Might be worth considering if you're in Europe.


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## Lookas (Jul 28, 2017)

I'm in Europe. The first stage of my world travel (which is not exactly a travel, i am just going away, looking for myself, without a specific target, visiting some Counties where I want to make some experiences, learn things, etc) will be Spain with the Santiago Path, 4 weeks walking. No idea if in Spain I get the C batteries, but I do not think I need them there. I will (as far as I know) every day have a place where I can sleep if I do not want to sleep with tent, or where I can charge stuff.
Then, Australia. Then New Zealand. Then no idea. I go mostly to specific places (woofing) but I will probably just go around and be alone in the nature.
So maybe it is meaningful to get a solar charger.
I am not sure about two lights, although I understand your point.
Anyway, I will have the Smartphone, so, if something happen to the light, I can use the smartphone to see, make my tent, sleep till is day, and then let's see.
I think, at first, till I am sure of what I need, I prefer to go for one light and save weight, rather than hating myself for a heavy backpack.
I have ordered the Fenix, because I thought, I prefer to save weight, and I can avoid the F1 if I have the Fenix.
But now I wonder, how do I charge the Fenix? I need a wall charger with USB output, right? I could use the one of my Samsung phone?
In that case I will just see if I manage to charge light and phone with the same charger every time I need.
If not, I may need to buy either another charger for the Fenix, or the F1 where I could then plug the phone on the F1's USB output.
I was thinking about the ZL 32, but, I do not find it where I am, I must import it and a return may be more expensive. I think about it, maybe I can order it to compare with the Fenix, after all they use the same battery and the Fenix comes with one.

About the 16340 batteries, should I go with Keeppower?


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## Keitho (Jul 28, 2017)

My Dear Lookas,

In my experience, while traveling more than a couple miles under my own power (on shoes, skis, snowshoes, or bike), weight is paramount. So, if I'm traveling for only a couple days, a 1x AA lamp with one spare cell wins every time, with my phone as a backup light, due to the weight. If I'm out for longer, and I need to carry a whole system for lighting and charging (light, batteries, solar panel, batt/phone cables/chargers), then 18650 wins every time due to power/weight ratio and flexibility (I usually bring just 2x or 3x 18650 cells, a way to charge my phone with a 18650, a headlamp, a flashlight, and a way to charge both an 18650 and my phone at the same time). Every time I lift my pack, every step I take, and every hill I climb, I am rewarded for very meticulously selecting every piece of gear in my pack based on weight and performance. The headlamp is only a small part of what I think your total system will include; time for some pack planning and a spreadsheet!

[Original post edited to add specifics]: my multi-day phone/light/charging system is typically some version of:
 - ZL SC63w flashlight, 38g, $79
 - ZL H600Fw headlamp and band, 86g, $89
 - Fenix ARE-X1 18650 charger, 42g, $18
 - depending on how much solar charging is expected, 0 to 2 of the 5W Renogy E.Flex solar panels, 120g each
 - depending on power needs, 2-3 18650 cells, 48g each
 - 2 braided 1' USB cables, 18g
 - if I'll be near outlets, a 2-port 2A wall wort, 32g, $8
 - if I'll be near cars, a 2-port USB car 12V adapter, 40g, $8 


So, my total kit is 280-639g, $203-$285. By the way, this is a very, very personal list. There are great suggestions in the thread above, especially the idea of finding a headlamp and/or flashlight with an integrated USB charger. My list doesn't include it, but that idea would eliminate one piece of gear and potentially save overall weight while only making the light itself slightly heavier/bulkier.


Happy planning, and safe travels!


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## terjee (Jul 28, 2017)

Keepower is one of the most respected and recommended brands, so I'm sure it'll be a good choice. 

Personally I find cellphone to be a poor backup. It's uncomfortable to hold so the light gets to where it needs to go while working at the same time, it's easy to drop and break it, and it'll wear down precious battery. A simple single-AAA or Fenix UC01 could perhaps be something to consider?


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## Lookas (Jul 28, 2017)

Hmmm. Well, for someone wanting to be light, you bring lot of lights with you 
I do not know. I understand you both, I will think about it.

What about solar chargers? Do you have experience with them?
I see one in Ebay, it costs nothing, and claims 300000mAh. Can it be?
If true, it may be a nice idea. With two USB ports, one 1A and one 2A. From China of course.

I think I will pass on the ZL600 because if for the same money and weight I can get the Fenix plus a solar charger, it means I will not need to worry if I stay a long time in the wild.

I am realising that the ZL 32 says it was tested with CR123A batteries. Which means that probably with a 16340 the autonomy is less.
If so, I lean even more toward the Fenix, because lighter, with incorporated charger, better IP, and apparently better performance.

Now I am thinking again to the Actik, because a friend told me that in some situations (while camping with other people and being together at night near the fire, of inside the tent, or while camping illegally where free camping is forbidden or where you are scared that someone sees you and may come to do you harm) a low red light is very convenient.
Is it really like that, or something like the Fenix at 4lm would be ok enough?


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## terjee (Jul 28, 2017)

With solar panels, you get what you pay for. Personal experience has been that smaller power banks with attached solar panels are completely useless. If you want anything useful, you'd probably have to look at 5-8W minimum. Part of the problem is that you won't typically get the full effect of the panel. A 10W panel could often give you 4-5 watts, then there's losses in conversion, maybe the panel isn't oriented the ideal way if you use it while walking, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of solar, but you have to either do it right, or you'll easily end up spending good money for extra weight, and little or no gain.

To get a ballpark idea, you could start running the numbers on how much power you'd need. To charge a 3000mAh battery, that'd be something like 15-20Wh. You could do that with 40W panel in 1-2 hours on a good day, a 20W panel in 2-4, and so on. Just very, very ballpark. You need to keep the losses in mind as well. To fully charge a 3000mAh battery from empty, you'd need to put in more than 3000mAh, say 3500mAh-ish. Then there's the losses in both the charger and anything you have between the panel and the charger, perhaps they're about 80% efficient each. Finally maybe calculate about 10-50% of the panels rating for what you can get reliably. More if you can always get sun, and in the correct direction towards the panel. 

Notice that hat this overlaps pretty well with what Keitho said, with 0-2 5W panels being 0-10W. I wouldn't typically consider anything below 5W worth even considering for this type of use.

Red can be helpful to preserve night vision, but I hadn't really thought about it for covert camping (with restrictions, camping on private land is a right by law here in Scandinavia). I'll often use red in a tent to not hurt the night vision of others inside the tent, but never outside. It's the color your eyes are least sensitive to, making it hard to use. You'd need a lot more red light to get the same visibility as a little white light, meaning you can get by with less white than red.

As for covert camping, I suppose it could go both ways. It could be less visible, but it could also be mistaken for a motor vehicle, and prompt further investigation, and so on. I'd probably just go by low white to be honest. Yes, there are some advantages to red, but they're so minor I wouldn't make the choice of primary light based on it. Secondary maybe, like me choosing the HL35. Also, red matters less if you're traveling alone, or not sharing a tent.


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## Keitho (Jul 28, 2017)

Lookas said:


> Hmmm. Well, for someone wanting to be light, you bring lot of lights with you



As I said, very personal decision for every multi-day adventurer, what is considered "just right." What I consider to be a great cost/weight/performance trade-off is probably considered... correctly... by almost everyone else to have at least one critical flaw for their situation. The only way to know if you got the right answer is to get out and try, and be willing to constantly learn and improve.


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