# clausing 12x36 5C value?



## VegasF6 (Jun 10, 2009)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=360160711060
I am bidding on this, but I am not really sure what it may be worth. Of course, it is only worth what someone will spend on it, but in general, could I get a quick opinion? The turret and collet closer, and no backplate or chuck are all things I am not so sure about.


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## PhotonFanatic (Jun 10, 2009)

I'll give you an opinion, which you may not like:

DO NOT BUY ANY LATHE FROM RELIABLE!

There's not a serious machinist that would buy from them, sight unseen, as Reliable has screwed many over the years--they do a quick job of cleaning the machine up and that's about it. Looks nice, but never accept their description as accurate.

If you want further confirmation, just visit the Practical Machinist forum and do a search there on Reliable. :devil:


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## VegasF6 (Jun 10, 2009)

Yikes, anything but reliable huh? Well let's hope I get outbid then.

Other than that, what about that style machine?


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## precisionworks (Jun 10, 2009)

> There's not a serious machinist that would buy from them, sight unseen


All these years cutting metal, & I just now find out that I'm not a serious machinist ... which is good to know 

They have, without a doubt, the best photos on eBay. Which means the photos are sharp, clear, and useful in determining machinery (or tooling) conditon. Their feedback isn't perfect - 99% - so there is a 1% chance you won't be totally satisfied. If McMaster, J&L and Enco had feedback scoring, my guess is that they'd also be somewhere around 99%. 

Back to the lathe. It is properly called a Clausing 12" 6300. Most likely made around 1950-1960. Headstock spindle is L00 taper, which means easy availability of chucks & faceplates. Headstock bearings are Timken tapered rollers, which are hell for stout & not expensive to replace (in a relative sense). Tailstock is #3 Morse taper, a good size - bigger than the #2 MT in 9" or 10" machines. It looks like it will sell cheap, and (other than needing a clean up & repaint) could make a very nice machine. More info here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing/page2.html


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## VegasF6 (Jun 10, 2009)

Whew. With only 45 minutes left I was getting a bit worried that it was complete crap. Plus, I would need a phase converter and don't have any way to test it until then. Hopefully I can get them to plug let me see it run in person if I win it.

Well I don't know how much higher I will be bidding at this time, so wish me luck.


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## gadget_lover (Jun 10, 2009)

It looks like they did not do any cosmetic painting. It does not look too bad to me.

4 minutes left 

Daniel


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## gadget_lover (Jun 10, 2009)

Congrats! You got it for only $470!

Daniel


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## VegasF6 (Jun 10, 2009)

Dang you posted the good news before me . Or at least I hope it will turn out to be good news. Anyone comes across a faceplate or has a spare chuck they want to sell cheap, let me know :naughty: Or anything else they would like to donate to a first time machinist.


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## gadget_lover (Jun 10, 2009)

Sorry about that! I did not mean to steal your thunder.

I noticed that it did not appear to have a tool post either. It might just be dismounted to allow the turret to be used. Someone will know what size you will need for one that size. They are readily available on ebay, MSC, etc.

You might find that you like the collets for a lot of things, and can use them to good effect while waiting for a good buy on a chuck.

In the mean time, it's time to shop for a set of urning tools, a parting tool and a bunch of other fun toys. 

Daniel


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## precisionworks (Jun 10, 2009)

> You got it for only $470!



:twothumbs

It's worth that without a motor ... which will most likely run. Three phase motors, since they have no start or run capacitors & no centrifugal switch, are nearly bullet proof - and cheap to replace if needed.

Small Tools Inc always has a few nice, used chucks: http://www.smalltools.com/

And eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/8"-CUSHMAN-4-JA...temQQimsxq20090609?IMSfp=TL090609157003r16326

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-L00-4-JAW-6...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

http://cgi.ebay.com/Clausing-Lathe-...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

http://cgi.ebay.com/9-Lathe-face-pl...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lathe-drive-fac...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

Tools For Cheap is always worth a look:

http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=l00chuck

And VME:

http://www.victornet.com/cgi-bin/vi...ents=Lathe+Chuck+Back+Plates:374,375,365,1016



> it did not appear to have a tool post


You'll want an Aloris BXA, or a copy of the BXA.


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## VegasF6 (Jun 10, 2009)

I didn't mean that you stole any thunder, I just meant you were fast  I appreciate the good wishes. 

I really don't know what all I will need for this, suggestions are welcome. I hope to make a quick change toolpost fit it at some point. 

Can someone explain to me how I would use the turret to hold tools? Is it tapered?


I have slowly been trying to outfit this for about 5 weeks now, so far I haven't cut a single thing:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40939


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## VegasF6 (Jun 10, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> :twothumbs
> 
> Small Tools Inc always has a few nice, used chucks: http://www.smalltools.com/
> 
> ...


 
I put the cushman on my watch list, thanks. Again remember how ignorant I am about this. I would need that chuck AND a face plate/back plate that would have to be drilled to mount the chuck to? Or it screws right into the headstock somehow? Sorry, I really have a long ways to go, and I am all excited and full of dumb questions .

One more while I am at it. A 9x42 Bridgeport is likely to use what, a 2hp motor? I am looking at phase convertors and trying to decide how big I should go and still save money. I am pretty sure I will not need to run lathe and mill at same time ever.


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## gadget_lover (Jun 10, 2009)

The cushman comes with an L00 backplate, so that's all that is needed.

Bridgeports are not really heavy duty. I seem to recalll that 1 to 1.5 hp is normal.

With that mill, you should be able to make/adapt whatever you need.



Daniel


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## KC2IXE (Jun 11, 2009)

I used one of those lathes on occasion - if it's in good shape ways and spindle wise, you got a deal


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## wquiles (Jun 11, 2009)

PhotonFanatic said:


> I'll give you an opinion, which you may not like:
> 
> DO NOT BUY ANY LATHE FROM RELIABLE!
> 
> ...



They did not ship me the wrench for the chuck that I got from them (no bigie as I had another one that fits), but it was they who sold me that outstanding Set-True Buck Chuck that I "restored" recently. I have also gotten 1-2 things from them - so far I am happy with them.


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## 65535 (Jun 11, 2009)

Judging by the picks of that thing it took a paint beating, but nothing too serious.


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## precisionworks (Jun 11, 2009)

> it screws right into the headstock somehow?


The L-00 is a combination of a taper (with anti-rotation key) that provides centering, plus a locking collar. The Rockwell Delta 11" also uses the L-00, and there's a clear photo (about 2/3 down the page) at this link: http://www.lathes.co.uk/delta%20metal/img4.gif

A collar, with internal threads, engages external threads on the back of the chuck. The key maintains alignment as the taper engages when the collar is tightened. Pretty slick system, much nicer than a threaded spindle which will unthead if stopped too quickly. You don't see the L-00 much today, as it requires a super finished spindle nose. Camlocks are the most often seen, as they can be knocked out quickly on either a manual or CNC machine.



> how I would use the turret to hold tools?


Unless you run some contract jobs, making multiples, you may not get much use from the turret. Even then, it's often more profitable to have a CNC shop run the parts for you.



> slowly been trying to outfit this for about 5 weeks now


Give it 5 years & you'll have both the lathe & mill fully tooled


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## wquiles (Jun 11, 2009)

precisionworks said:


> Give it 5 years & you'll have both the lathe & mill fully tooled


Yup, and the folks in this forum will certainly help you spend money towards that goal


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## gadget_lover (Jun 11, 2009)

VegasF6 said:


> Can someone explain to me how I would use the turret to hold tools? Is it tapered?



Generally, the turret has matched holes with a clamping system. I believe that the holes are simple cylinders. Others have mentioned needing to make adapters to hold their tools in a turret. For instance, to use a 1/4 inch shank drill he needed a 2 inch long steel rod to match the diameter of the turret hole and then drilled a 1/4 inch hole in the center of the rod. A set screw held the drill and the turret's clamp held the steel rod.

The idea of a turret is to do repetitive tasks that use the tailstock, like drilling, then boring and then threading a hundred parts.

I've seen videos of a turret being used to turn a shoulder on a part using a formed tool. The tool was offset the required amount and fed in from the end of the work. Rather clever, but only viable on small diameter parts.

Daniel


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## VegasF6 (Jun 11, 2009)

Will: glad it worked out for you, the Chuck. I hope for the best, we shall see.

65535: I am guessing someone blew off the paint either for a repaint, or just to clean it up for sale? I am thinking either a serious bath and blow dry or maybe even a pressure washer?? I will be sure to drain the oil and refilll it, once I figure out how.

Precision works: You are full of usefull info, thanks! (great explanation on the spindle, I thought it was threaded) 
Sound like I won't be getting any use of the turret, I will more than likely just hold onto it. But, would it have any resale value on it's own?

Daniel: thanks for that tip on the turret as well. Who knows, maybe I will be using it like that at some point.

I think I have to wait another 8 days or so before I can make the trip up to L.A. this weekend is looking booked. Darn I am kind of excited


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## precisionworks (Jun 11, 2009)

> would it (turret) have any resale value on it's own?



If it were mine, I'd join the Yahoo group & watch to see if someone wants a turret for their machine. I don't think it would bring what it's worth on eBay, but it might on Yahoo.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clausing_lathe_and_mill/


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## KC2IXE (Jun 12, 2009)

Man, if I DON'T get CNC, I want a lathe with both a tailstock and a turret included. I have a lever tailstock turret now (see the photos) and use it for the one production job I have


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## cmacclel (Jun 12, 2009)

VegasF6 said:


> . Plus, I would need a phase converter and don't have any way to test it until then..


 


Just pick up VFD

http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.196/.f

You get variable speed and some models also have braking.


http://dealerselectric.com/mfg-subcat-item.asp?cID=28&scID=165&mID=-1
Mac


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## wquiles (Jun 12, 2009)

cmacclel said:


> Just pick up VFD
> 
> http://www.factorymation.com/s.nl/it.A/id.196/.f
> 
> ...



Nice!

Converting my lathe and mill to a 3HP VFD is still towards the top of my list of projects to do


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## VegasF6 (Jun 12, 2009)

I dunno, this website here seems to think a rotary phase converter is better:
http://www.usphaseconverterstandards.org/phaseconvertercomparison.htm
But then, I really know very little about either of them. 

Then the fact that this is a "variable speed engine lathe" I don't understand how to change speeds on this lathe anyhow. The instruction manual I downloaded made it look like you just turn a dial to acheive most any speed between 30 & 1400 rpm. Unless that is an option that isn't included on mine... Hmm. 

So, is a VFD reliable?


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## precisionworks (Jun 12, 2009)

> this website here seems to think a rotary phase converter is better


Probably because they receive funds from ARCO, Phase-A-Matic, Tempco, American Rotary, etc. -- who make only rotary phase converters 
The information they show might have been accurate in 1970, but it is flawed in 2009. I doubt that accurate information is important to them.

The absolute Cadillac of phase converters is digital, like Phase Perfect. Price is just a little less than a heart transplant, but there is currently nothing finer on the planet. The CNC users love the PP converter.

http://phaseperfect.com/

I like VFDs because of the many features, in addition to phase conversion. Nothing wrong with a rotary if you don't want or need variable speed, soft start, dynamic braking, remote control operation, etc.


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## VegasF6 (Jun 20, 2009)

Boy it has been a long 18 hours involving moving trailers, moving vehicles, picking up a Road King and finally picking up my lathe and getting it in the garage. Not much time to play, but so far it looks like a good one (cross my fingers) I will have lots more questions, starting with electrical so stay tuned


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## precisionworks (Mar 13, 2011)

Time for an update?


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## darkzero (Mar 13, 2011)

precisionworks said:


> Time for an update?


 
Yeah, what Barry said!


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## VegasF6 (Mar 13, 2011)

How strange that I checked this today. Well, not a lot to say. I did pick up a nice buck chuck. Still no tool post and most importantly no phase converter. Amazing to me that it's been about 21 months that I have had that 1500 lb chunk of metal taking up what little space I have in the garage. I have actually used the chuck several times to hold glued lights while I crank on the head with a rubber strap wrench etc.

I was pretty much convinced that I would be moving, so I hesitated to do the electrical work here at this house, but it is looking bad now. (the move) as work has let off and money is tight. Coincendtally though I was just looking at this thread: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...rters-vfd/wiring-teco-fm50-mill-lathe-220678/ 

The handle got busted on my drum switch, and I was trying to find a replacement, but now I am thinking with the teco FM50 VFD I won't need the drum switch at all? I am quite intimidated by the wiring on this thing.


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## VegasF6 (Mar 13, 2011)

Oh, incidently the Road King is now for sale. Hah hah.


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## VegasF6 (Mar 13, 2011)

Since we are starting this dialog again though, could some of you in the know take a look at these two VFDs?
http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?PID=394
http://dealerselectric.com/item.asp?PID=617

The second one, the FM50 I have seen mentioned quite a bit, I assume it is a good machine. One thing about it, from the little I gather is, it requires an external pot to control the speed? Or it can be done on the control panel, OR with an external pot?

The first one, the JNEV-202-H1 I haven't seen before. It caught my eye for a few reasons. It has a dial on the front, so I guess that is a speed control. It is in the same price range but a hair more. It weighs half as much, wonder why? Perhaps it uses all solid state components and the FM50 has a transformer or something in it? It is rated for constant torque. I know that can be useful in some cases. Would it be something I would want in this case? 
And finally, what about the sensorless vector control? Google provided a few links including this one: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=33452 It seems as though, while it is a "good thing" I may not really benefit from it?

Oh, just found this post 
Looks like Barry might have an opinion on this.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...the-sensorless-vector-not-215889/#post1485363
Now I just have to figure out how to use it.


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## precisionworks (Mar 13, 2011)

> what about the sensorless vector control?


VFD's are either Volts per Hz (V/Hz) or sensorless vector. V/Hz drives are designed for pumps and fans, sensorless vector drives for machine tools. There is very little cost difference.

A rotary phase converter is quick & cheap to build, around $100, and is worth considering.


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## VegasF6 (Mar 16, 2011)

So, despite the fact that the JNEV-202-H1 is a sensorless vector drive I notice you relagated it to basic 60 hz function in this post: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...y-Bridgeport&p=3595372&viewfull=1#post3595372
Assuming I probably won't be buying a Phase Perfect, what functions am I actually looking for to make it worthwhile to use for forward, reverse, adjust speed, and maybe (but probably not) braking?


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## precisionworks (Mar 16, 2011)

The Teco FM Series is a basic pump/fan drive, useful for phase conversion on a machine tool if the freq is left at 60 Hz.

The Teco EV Series is a sensorless vector drive, and I meant no disrespect by including it with the FM series. Because it is an open case drive (versus a NEMA-4 sealed drive) it will need to be remote mounted or housed inside a closed metal box. All drive functions can be remote controlled.


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## VegasF6 (Mar 17, 2011)

Ok cool, thanks for clearing that up. Any idea if it would be money well spent to get this instead? http://cgi.ebay.com/2-HP-Sensorless...592?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51983c3d08 
*Manufacturer:* AC Tech / Lenze 
*Model #:* ESV152N02YXB 
It is significantly more money, but then, buy quality and buy once. But on the other hand, why buy more than I need.


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## precisionworks (Mar 17, 2011)

The ACTech SMVector drive on eBay is a well made product. Will Quilles & I both have them, and I have a few. The eBay drive is open cased, and a sealed drive is a better choice for a machine tool.

Wolf Automation sells the identical drive for $222.75.


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## wquiles (Mar 17, 2011)

precisionworks said:


> The ACTech SMVector drive on eBay is a well made product. Will Quilles & I both have them, and I have a few.


Yup, I am "very" happy with them (I own two of them), and with ACTech's phone support as well.


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## precisionworks (Mar 17, 2011)

There are a couple of different ways to approach which NEMA enclosure to use on a machine tool.

The "standard" NEMA-1 enclosure is finger safe, meaning the small ventilation slots keep anyone from sticking their finger into the enclosure. Good thing, as the DC bus voltage on a 240v drive is nearly 400v. The problem with NEMA-1 is that any type of dust will easily enter, as will smaller chips and grit. If you purchase a NEMA-1 enclosed drive, figure on installing it inside a metal box (Hoffman box, or equal) having a volume 4x the size of the drive ... this allows heat conduction without ventilation openings.

The "sealed" NEMA-4 enclosed drives cost more, but need no protective box. They are sealed against dust, as well as hose directed water. My last two SMVector drives are NEMA-4, although the first is NEMA-1. The open drive works well as long as it's either enclosed or located far from the source of chips & dust.


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