# Head Flash Light with High Lumens



## Farhaj (Nov 24, 2014)

I want to make a Head flash Light having High Lumens which I can Use in Night Time in Sea Water to catch Fish. 

I already Use this *DP-722b* which Has around *70 Lumens,,*, and has a *4 Volt Battery r*echargeable in it.. *( Images Below)*..

The Thing is When I strap it to my forehead *(DP-722b)* and Walk in Sea water; I can see clearly with it only in Shallow water.. wherever their the water level is high,, I am not able to see it clearer maybe because of the reason of low lumens,,, 

So, I was thinking if I can Modify this headlight with a *CREE LED Chip *which has got the capability of producing more High Lumens of light in sea water with *less Voltage* Required I can modify this one and add that LED chip to it .. such as this LED of Cree which has capacity to produce *200 lm/w at 350 mA,*, (
Link: http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/XLamp/Discrete-Directional/XLamp-XPL

Can anyone Help me in this matter.. if and how to do it... 

I*mages of the existing DP-722b..

*
*SOURCE: AMAZON IMAGES BELOW:*

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41DVGZgBKdL._SY450_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51z2eBYEWEL._SY450_.jpg

*Image tags removed from hot linked images - Norm*



*An Outside Photo of the Box.*















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## mvyrmnd (Nov 25, 2014)

That's going to take a lot of work to modify - making a heatsink, getting a reflector that will fit, getting a driver in there... I would suggest that getting a headlamp that was designed from the ground up for fishing might be a better option.

Take a look at the Fenix HP40F


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## Farhaj (Nov 25, 2014)

But still which led you suggest and why would be their need for a reflector and a driver.. For what these are required and what are they exactly...
Also, is the CREE led feasible for this purpose..


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## mvyrmnd (Nov 25, 2014)

If you want any LED to be able to do more than just reflect light off the surface of the water, it's going to need a tight beam - which means you'll need a decent reflector. The body of your headlamp doesn't look like it will fit the deep reflector required. The type of LED is not really relevant if the body is not suitable.


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## deeuubee (Nov 25, 2014)

Farhaj - can you clarify a few things for me. 
Do you want to light up a larger area above water, or do you want to spot fish underwater?
Are you standing in the water, or fishing from a boat?
How deep do you need the light to penetrate if underwater?
Do you need to see the fish within pole length from you, or are you looking to see where to cast to?


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## Farhaj (Nov 25, 2014)

@mvyrmnd.. Thank you for the little detail you mentioned about the reflector... I want to ask:

1) i still did not get about the reflector that what exactly it is.. Also, please let me know what the driver is..

2) the fenix light which you mentioned earleir has 450 lumens at turbo mode.. Is their any more with more capacity than that.. From the same company or any other.. 

3) their are many lights of fenix in that website.. Which one and how to choose it from it..

4) i reside in saudi arabia . How and from where can i get a one like that..

5) is it not possible to make a light similar to fenix or modify the existing one as I mentioned eariler..

Please answer all questions step by step..


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## Farhaj (Nov 25, 2014)

deeuubee said:


> Farhaj - can you clarify a few things for me.
> Do you want to light up a larger area above water, or do you want to spot fish underwater?
> Are you standing in the water, or fishing from a boat?
> How deep do you need the light to penetrate if underwater?
> Do you need to see the fish within pole length from you, or are you looking to see where to cast to?



Thank you for taking interest in answering my questions.. And helping me with the flashlight

1) I want to spot fish underwater..
2) i am standing in water in the night..
3)mostly see the fish from the pole length.. But also to cast to if possible..
4) also, tell me if I can make a high lumens like close to 1000 lumens head flash light to see in water by modifying the existing one..


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## Farhaj (Nov 29, 2014)

mvyrmnd said:


> If you want any LED to be able to do more than just reflect light off the surface of the water, it's going to need a tight beam - which means you'll need a decent reflector. The body of your headlamp doesn't look like it will fit the deep reflector required. The type of LED is not really relevant if the body is not suitable.



Can you please read my previous post to your answer and reply me with more information and hints..

Plus anyone else also with info and answers can help me out


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## kj2 (Nov 29, 2014)

As you requested in PM: Have read the thread and have nothing to add. The easy way is checking out the suggested Fenix headlamp. If you do want to modify you can use a XM-L(2) led but you'll need a reflector to focus the beam and a heatsink to dissipate heat.


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## Farhaj (Nov 29, 2014)

kj2 said:


> As you requested in PM: Have read the thread and have nothing to add. The easy way is checking out the suggested Fenix headlamp. If you do want to modify you can use a XM-L(2) led but you'll need a reflector to focus the beam and a heatsink to dissipate heat.



what kind of reflector and what is it exactly.. can I not modify the existing one in the head lamp in the (DP LED 722b)


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## mvyrmnd (Nov 29, 2014)

Mate, everyone is saying the same thing here. Your headlight will not be able to be modified to fit ANY reflector or ANY emitter to achieve your goal.


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## Farhaj (Nov 29, 2014)

mvyrmnd said:


> Mate, everyone is saying the same thing here. Your headlight will not be able to be modified to fit ANY reflector or ANY emitter to achieve your goal.



can u please tell me what are reflectors and emitters.. please tell in detail.. i am not getting it,,


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## Jaegerbomb (Nov 29, 2014)

Please read about flashlights here:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashlight

In particular read the section at the start, the section on "LED" and the section on Reflectors...
That will explain the terminology the guys here are using.

Reflectors help to focus the beam, and different reflectors give different beams.
For bigger lumen LEDs you need more heat dissipation, and reflector must fit around the LED you use... so the existing one you have will not fit...

As someone said above... better off to buy a headlamp suited to your needs... MOD'ing in this instance will end up costing you more because of the starting point.


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## DIWdiver (Nov 29, 2014)

Buying a cheap flashlight and modding it is rarely less expensive than buying a good light to begin with, even if you know what you are doing.

Modding is something you do either because you enjoy it or because you want something that can't be bought at any price, or both.

To answer you question about 1000 lm on a head-mounted lamp, it's possible but probably not something you want to wear for a long time. It would be heavy, bulky, and hot. An LED generating 1000 lm also generates a fair bit of heat. You have to make that heat go away, which takes a large piece of aluminum with fins all over it (a heatsink) or a smaller heatsink with a fan.

Since you will be standing in water, you could use a very small heatsink and cool it with water. A very small pump could easily pump enough water to keep it cool, and you have a ready supply of cool water.


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## GordoJones88 (Nov 29, 2014)

There is a lot I do not understand. I have always been careful not to shine my light anywhere near a dock where people are fishing. I thought that the light would spook the fish away. Even if you spot a big fish through the water with the light, it's not like that's gonna help hook it.

However, if you want the light to pierce through the water, you want a light with high Lux or cd (candelas), which we call throw. In order to have throw, you need a deep reflector. A deep reflector might not easily fit on a head lamp.

I would recommend a compact flashlight with throw that you can hold in your hand and use to spot an area with fish, then put the light away and begin fishing.

So a compact budget thrower maybe?


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## mvyrmnd (Nov 29, 2014)

GordoJones88 said:


> There is a lot I do not understand. I have always been careful not to shine my light anywhere near a dock where people are fishing. I thought that the light would spook the fish away.



Which is exactly why the headlamp I suggested in my first reply has a blue emitter which will not scare away the fish.


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

DIWdiver said:


> Buying a cheap flashlight and modding it is rarely less expensive than buying a good light to begin with, even if you know what you are doing.
> 
> Modding is something you do either because you enjoy it or because you want something that can't be bought at any price, or both.
> 
> ...



This reflector and pump which you mentioned; from where and what can i get from.. Can you help me with this.. 

Also how a small pump can work inside the flashlight..


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

GordoJones88 said:


> There is a lot I do not understand. I have always been careful not to shine my light anywhere near a dock where people are fishing. I thought that the light would spook the fish away. Even if you spot a big fish through the water with the light, it's not like that's gonna help hook it.
> 
> However, if you want the light to pierce through the water, you want a light with high Lux or cd (candelas), which we call throw. In order to have throw, you need a deep reflector. A deep reflector might not easily fit on a head lamp.
> 
> ...



I do night fishing with hand net.. So their are some species of fish which are slept in the night and we catch them in night easily rather than in day..

Tell me this how come candelas are more imprtant than lumens to penetrate in water so that i can see inside.. 

Also, how a reflector can increase the candelas and from where can i get it..

Will a high lumens led won't easy out the work for me..


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

mvyrmnd said:


> Which is exactly why the headlamp I suggested in my first reply has a blue emitter which will not scare away the fish.



1) I liked the fenix light which you showed me.. But it is of 500 lumens and their is one more on their website which is 900 lumens .. So, which is better..

2) their are also two types in it.. HL and HP.. What are their main differneces or changes in between them..

3) they are much costly.. Are their any cheaper ones with the same features and quality but differnet cheaper brand..

4) also, tell me more about it..


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

I guess these are the photos of the reflector which I want to modify with.. 

Is it not ok if I change it with the Led I mentioned earlier and use this very below same reflector for the purpose and a small heat sink with the led..


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## The_Driver (Nov 30, 2014)

Modding this headlamp with a modern LED is not really worth it because the housing of the flashlight is made out of plastic. Bright efficient flashlights are never made out of plastic. You need a metal housing for heatsinking. 

It is much easier to just buy a normal headlamp from one of the well known manufactuers. It will save you a lot of trouble. Especially since you den't seem to have any experience in building/modding flashlights and headlamps.


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

The_Driver said:


> Modding this headlamp with a modern LED is not really worth it because the housing of the flashlight is made out of plastic. Bright efficient flashlights are never made out of plastic. You need a metal housing for heatsinking.
> 
> It is much easier to just buy a normal headlamp from one of the well known manufactuers. It will save you a lot of trouble. Especially since you den't seem to have any experience in building/modding flashlights and headlamps.



What manufacturer you recommend and a cheap and reliable one. Plus the ability that i can find it here in saudi..

Also, i wont have to light the flash light for long hours and that can help me in not causing much damage to it.. So can you help me with some tips and components which I can rather buy and make it myself.. With your guidelines and help..


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## The_Driver (Nov 30, 2014)

Farhaj said:


> What manufacturer you recommend and a cheap and reliable one. Plus the ability that i can find it here in saudi..
> 
> Also, i wont have to light the flash light for long hours and that can help me in not causing much damage to it.. So can you help me with some tips and components which I can rather buy and make it myself.. With your guidelines and help..



What price range do you have in mind (in US Dollars)?

What do you mean with "causing damage to it"? If you want to make a light yourself you need a housing made out of aluminium and it needs to be coated since you are using it in salt water. Titanium would also work, but is very expensive.


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

The_Driver said:


> What price range do you have in mind (in US Dollars)?
> 
> What do you mean with "causing damage to it"? If you want to make a light yourself you need a housing made out of aluminium and it needs to be coated since you are using it in salt water. Titanium would also work, but is very expensive.



Thnx for replying and i hope u continue replying ..

I m looking for not to spend more than 20-25$ for a new ready made light..

Ok i get for the aluminium .. How about if i coat the housing with aluminium or titanium myself on this existing light for making it modified one.. And how and what all components are needed please tell me..

Also, for buying a ready made light; I don't see much here around in the market.. So, i want to know from where exactly i can get it..

Please reply all my queries


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## Ken_McE (Nov 30, 2014)

Farhaj, what if you strapped the light to your ankle so it is shining under the water?


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

Ken_McE said:


> Farhaj, what if you strapped the light to your ankle so it is shining under the water?



No that wont be helpful.. Coz we need to focus from top as we are continuously walking inside water.. So on ankle might not be able to walk properly..


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## The_Driver (Nov 30, 2014)

Farhaj said:


> Thnx for replying and i hope u continue replying ..
> 
> I m looking for not to spend more than 20-25$ for a new ready made light..
> 
> ...



20 - 20$ is not really a lot for a nice headlamp. This really restricts your options if you want a high-quality light.
You will need to buy it on the internet. Shipping costs could be rather high to your country though....

You seem to not understand me regarding the materials. The housing of the light needs to be made out of solid aluminium. No plastic! The housing of your current light is made out of plastic and unusable for this. The coating I was talking about (it's called "hard anodize") is to prevent the salt water from corroding the bare aluminium. 

You would need a housing, a lens, a reflector, a LED with PCB, a driver for the led (electronics), rechargeable batteries that fit the driver and the led, wires, o-ring seals, a waterproof switch, etc. You will also need a soldering iron to solder the electronic parts. I think you should realize now that this is a lot of work and requires some experience.


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## Jaegerbomb (Nov 30, 2014)

Ken_McE said:


> Farhaj, what if you strapped the light to your ankle so it is shining under the water?



I think for your budget this is definitely the best you can do... although I would say increase your budget slightly and also purchase a sealable plastic bag so that when it is on your ankle it will adhere to IPX7 or 8 depending on the quality of bag used...

As you said though... coating your existing torch in aluminium, replacing the 12 LEDs with better LEDs and might be the way to go... I cannot see anything that would prevent this approach... although my friends Logic and Physics might tell you otherwise


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## jason 77 (Nov 30, 2014)

To the OP, 

I really don't think you can modify the light you have now to put out the amount of light you are looking for without spending way more money than you are willing to spend. I would just go to ebay and type "caving headlamp" into the search engine and pick one of the lights that come up in the $25-30 range. Just pick one that says it's using a CREE XM-L LED and you should have plenty of light, at least a lot more than what you are getting from that light you are currently using.


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

The_Driver said:


> 20 - 20$ is not really a lot for a nice headlamp. This really restricts your options if you want a high-quality light.
> You will need to buy it on the internet. Shipping costs could be rather high to your country though....
> 
> You seem to not understand me regarding the materials. The housing of the light needs to be made out of solid aluminium. No plastic! The housing of your current light is made out of plastic und unusable for this. The coating I was talking about (it's called "hard anodize") is to prevent the salt water from corroding the bare aluminium.
> ...



Ok .. How much more budget should I increase to get the light i want i am willing to do that..

Plus tell me which all Cree Leds can I use for this purpose which can produce high lumens with less watts requires so that i have the ability to use a smaller Battery size and power..

And also can you tell me on how to use all the list you said in order to make that flash light.. 

And what is the LED driver.. I have a soldering Iron and Solderig wire..


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## Farhaj (Nov 30, 2014)

jason 77 said:


> To the OP,
> 
> I really don't think you can modify the light you have now to put out the amount of light you are looking for without spending way more money than you are willing to spend. I would just go to ebay and type "caving headlamp" into the search engine and pick one of the lights that come up in the $25-30 range. Just pick one that says it's using a CREE XM-L LED and you should have plenty of light, at least a lot more than what you are getting from that light you are currently using.



Their are many cree XM Leds.. Which one you prefer..from the list and are their more type Leds from a manufacturer which is similar to the Cree Company which is a bit cheaper but has the same quality


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## Jaegerbomb (Nov 30, 2014)

Farhaj said:


> Their are many cree XM Leds.. Which one you prefer..from the list and are their more type Leds from a manufacturer which is similar to the Cree Company which is a bit cheaper but has the same quality



Here is the information on each type for you to read and make an informed decision on... at the end of the day... it is what you want which matters... so you should investigate the options and decide what suits your needs and your costs.

http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree

Currently the highest lumen small LED is the XM-L2
But you need to decide what lumen you want and how much you are willing to spend.
If you narrow your choices down to a limited few then present the options to the forum here, we could then provide advice on pro's and con's.

If you are still adamant on modding your own torch, then none of the powerful LEDs can be used as your torch is plastic.

But the advice of everyone so far is... buy a new torch that suits your needs... as your budget is so low, I would advise using as much of your budget as possible and then see what is the most expensive you can afford and then present it for advice here if you want.

Be aware though that your current line of posts and questions is coming across as trolling, apologies if that is not the case.


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## TEEJ (Nov 30, 2014)

I just want to help answer part of the confusing lumen questions.

Lumens are the total amount of light the flashlight makes.

Lux is the light that bounces back to your eyes so you SEE something.

In other words, if I shine a million lumen light out into the darkness, and it's light doesn't hit anything to bounce light back to my eyes, it will look black out there, and I will see nothing.

If its DOES hit something, the amount of light that bounces back to my eyes is described as LUX. The more lumens there are on JUST what I see, the brighter it will look to me. So lux describes how brightly lit something is to you.

A light can have a lot of lumen power (Make a lot of light), but, that light is not always sent out in a concentrated beam....its more of a pool of light sometimes, such as a flood light, or a light bulb.


If you had a regular 100 watt light bulb on a lamp...you might see a several meter pool of light around the lamp, but past that, its dark.

If you put something shiny behind the bulb, so more light is reflected to one side, you'd see a LONGER pool of light on one side of the bulb, and it would be dark on the OTHER side.


If you SHAPED that shiny thing behind the bulb to better focus the light into a tighter beam (Make the beam shaped more like a tube and less like a fan or pie slice, etc.) - THAT would be what the REFLECTOR DOES, it helps to focus the beam so more light goes farther.


So a light bulb might have 1,800 lumens, but, without a reflector, only send light a few meters away. The SAME 1,800 lumens, focused into a tube shaped beam, might be able to light up targets a mile away.


When you need to penetrate water, the stuff IN the water lights up too, including plankton, silt, bubbles, etc...not just the fish. If there's too much turbidity (Cloudiness of the water from stuff in it...), the stuff lit up between you and the fish can keep you from seeing the fish.

The better focused the beam, so as much of the light is sent forward as possible, the less light is wasted lighting up silt and bubbles to your sides, and the more is spent helping you see fish farther off in the water. (More LUX on the fish, so you can see them)


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## download (Dec 1, 2014)

I agree most of members replies here, it is not worth modifying your existing plastic head light.
Mostly the cost of the parts would higher than the ready made one.

Take a look this post, it may help a little.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nner-s-Guide-to-explain-simple-LED-flashlight


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## Farhaj (Dec 1, 2014)

TEEJ said:


> I just want to help answer part of the confusing lumen questions.
> 
> Lumens are the total amount of light the flashlight makes.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the expalination.. I did understand something out of it..

1) Can you explain me this.. That if a light bulb of 100 watts is illuminated on to the sea water.. It won't make a differnce weather it has high lumens or not.. Coz the light will be flooded.. Meaning just be seen on top of the shallow water; but to see it deeper inside it has to have a high CD.. Is that so..??

2) So when buying a flashlight the CD also has to be seend how much it is of a flash light or how much it is of the LED..?

Can you explain this


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 2, 2014)

Farhaj said:


> Thank you for the expalination.. I did understand something out of it..
> 
> 1) Can you explain me this.. That if a light bulb of 100 watts is illuminated on to the sea water.. It won't make a differnce weather it has high lumens or not.. Coz the light will be flooded.. Meaning just be seen on top of the shallow water; but to see it deeper inside it has to have a high CD.. Is that so..??
> 
> ...



The reflector used dictates the shape of the beam... whether that be "flood" or "throw"... so it is not 'just' the 'amount' of light produced, you also need it to concentrate the beam to penetrate the water, so you would need a reflector that focuses the beam in the manner you want.
Again see the link provided earlier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flashlight#Reflectors_and_lenses

As one of the first responders indicated... using a different colour light helps when fishing (blue in particular) and again they provided a link to a sample light for this:
http://www.fenix-store.com/fenix-hp40f-led-fishing-headlamp/

I suggest you read up on the wiki page (the entire page), then read up on fishing lamps (the one linked above, find some reviews on it etc, google other type and their reviews) learn what is needed for a good fishing lamp... research it online.
Then when you find some alternatives in your price range and if you cannot weigh them up or need advice, ask here again for more help... but I feel the guys here have been more than helpful with information and advice but it is either being ignored or looked over and the same questions are being asked again... If I am incorrect I apologise, but that is how this and the other threads you have started appear to run, you respond to their replies with the same question in a different manner and it is a little frustrating when the guys go to a lot of effort in their responses only to be ignored.

Again, this is my interpretation and if I am incorrect then I apologise


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 2, 2014)

download said:


> I agree most of members replies here, it is not worth modifying your existing plastic head light.
> Mostly the cost of the parts would higher than the ready made one.
> 
> Take a look this post, it may help a little.
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...nner-s-Guide-to-explain-simple-LED-flashlight



That is a great link with really helpful information, thanks


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## Farhaj (Dec 2, 2014)

Guys .. I took these photos from the previous light I had.. I did not post these reflector photos earlier.. Can you see these reflector photots and tell me is it really worth it.. And it is made of aluminium so can work as a hear sink as well if i change the LED with CreE just for a check.. What are your views on this..


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## The_Driver (Dec 2, 2014)

The blue housing needs to be made out of aluminium. The reflector doesn't have much effect in heatsinking.


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## Farhaj (Dec 2, 2014)

The_Driver said:


> The blue housing needs to be made out of aluminium. The reflector doesn't have much effect in heatsinking.



Ok.. Below the led i will add some piece of aluminium or metalic think to do the heat sink.. But tell me this, that this shiny thing in the photos is called reflector or not..


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 2, 2014)

The reflector looks like plastic, I would be worried about melting all parts of that torch...

Yes, that silver thing is the reflector


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## alpg88 (Dec 2, 2014)

have nothing to add either. that light is not worth rebuilding.


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## Farhaj (Dec 3, 2014)

If i just light it for a small time like few seconds or a minute .. Is it then worth it..


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## Farhaj (Dec 3, 2014)

Also, can anyone name me the Cree LEDs having the highest LuMens produced with the least amount of watts, voltage or amperes required..


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 3, 2014)

Jaegerbomb said:


> Here is the information on each type for you to read and make an informed decision on... at the end of the day... it is what you want which matters... so you should investigate the options and decide what suits your needs and your costs.
> 
> http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree
> 
> ...



I already provided the LED info and links to you in the previous post (quoted again here)


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## Farhaj (Dec 3, 2014)

Jaegerbomb said:


> I already provided the LED info and links to you in the previous post (quoted again here)



Yes, thanx again for posting it..

I read the page but i still could not get what are the major differneces between other types of CReE led such as XM-L, XP then from XM-L2 though they also produce the same lumens


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## alpg88 (Dec 3, 2014)

Farhaj said:


> If i just light it for a small time like few seconds or a minute .. Is it then worth it..


it makes lttle difference how long you use it for. it is amount of work involved to get it done right. and you do want it to be done right, with proper optics that focuses your beam so you can see deeper under water.

it is easier\make more sense to build a new light from a scratch, than rebuiild this one. at least the head, the battery holder section is ok, you can leave it as it is, the head you want to redo.

as for leds, use xml2. if you can get it, as i see cost and parts availabuility may be an issue for you in your location. you can just get led mr16 bulb and use it as a head, with your base.

i have reduild and build few headlamps, here is my thread on other forum about 2 of those. http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?t=6445 it is not in english, but everything you need you can see from pics.


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## Farhaj (Dec 3, 2014)

alpg88 said:


> it makes lttle difference how long you use it for. it is amount of work involved to get it done right. and you do want it to be done right, with proper optics that focuses your beam so you can see deeper under water.
> 
> it is easier\make more sense to build a new light from a scratch, than rebuiild this one. at least the head, the battery holder section is ok, you can leave it as it is, the head you want to redo.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the explainaitions..

What is Mr.16 Bulb... And what are the main differnces between XML-2 and other types of. cree Leds..


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## The_Driver (Dec 3, 2014)

Farhaj said:


> Ok.. Below the led i will add some piece of aluminium or metalic think to do the heat sink.. But tell me this, that this shiny thing in the photos is called reflector or not..



You are still not understanding me. The light needs to be made completely out of aluminum so that the heat can get away from the LED and into the water. If you make a heatsink out of aluminium and put it in the blue plastic housing the heat will stay inside the light. The plastic housing effectively acts as an insulator. You don't want that! Thats bad design and you will not be able to make the LED very bright. 

To see why aluminium is so much better than plastic for led lighting applications see here (compare the conductivity of aluminium with materials like polymer etc. - a higher value is better). Modern LEDs like the XM-L2, XP-L etc. produce a lot of heat when driven at high-currents. High currents are needed to make them really bright. The problem is that heat is bad for the LEDs. The LEDs become more inefficient as they get hotter (see page 9 of the Cree XM-L2 datasheet as an example of this). They also have a maximum temperature rating that they should not exceed (150°C for the Cree XM-L2 as an example, see page 2 of datasheet). So in the end you should understand the modern LED lights should have a metal housing. Anodized Aluminium is generally the most practical metal for this (it is very light, sturdy, a very good conducter of heat and very cheap). 

Building a custom aluminium headlamp is going to be very epensive and time consuming. That is why everyone here is telling you to just buy a new light. It will be cheaper and better.


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## alpg88 (Dec 4, 2014)

actually now that i look at it, and since OP added some info in 1st post i see what he wants to do is actualy quite doable and easy. he only wants 200lm\ 350ma, that is not much at all, 1w can be easy disapated by a simple aluminium puck. even inside sealed plastic head. especially if it is not turned on for long time. i have moded few lights that way, i mount leds on chunk of aluminum, and do not supply more that 700ma, none light had any issue so far. i would not be doing 10w conversion that way, but 1w or even 2w, easy. 

what you Farhaj need is a cree xml\xpl\xpg led on a star does not matter what size of the star, 14-16-20mm, any size you can get. than you need an aliminum heatsink,. a 3-4mm thick aluminum, you need a circle made cut out that would fit inside your light's head, mount the led on the circle, with screws, you could also use thermal epoxy, but idk how available it is in your location, but i'm sure you can manage to find 2 small screws and drill 2 holes in the circle for them. just make sure the sirfice of the circle if flat and straight, so the led sits on the mettal. use thrmal paste, if you can get it.
than remove your board with 16 leds, and in its place put your circle with cree led. now as for reflector\optic. you can try to use yours, since you'l have only 1 led instead of 16, you will only need to use 1 of those reflectors, install your circle with cree led under your reflectors (the shiny thingy) make sure new led alligns with one of the holes, i'm pretty sure cree led at 350-500ma will be a lot brighter that all your 16 old leds were, even using just 1 of the 16 reflectors (i'd use the one on theoutside, those reflectors have more surfice that the one in the center. 

now the driver, you do not need any, your batery is 4 volts, just about what you need for cree led. use 1-2 ohm resistor instead to limit current. it wont be regulated, but in your case it wont make any difference. it will work. if you have multimeter, mesure current with 1 and 2 ohms resistor, you want no more that 500ma. for that led. that is about it. 

as far as lm\watts, the most efficient\brighter led is xml2, but xml, xpg will also work, (xpg might even give you tighter beam due to smaller chip size, the tiny yellow bubble) you really shoudl not concearn yourslef with what is brighter, at the current you drive them, you prbly wont see much difference anyway.


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## Farhaj (Dec 4, 2014)

alpg88 said:


> actually now that i look at it, and since OP added some info in 1st post i see what he wants to do is actualy quite doable and easy. he only wants 200lm\ 350ma, that is not much at all, 1w can be easy disapated by a simple aluminium puck. even inside sealed plastic head. especially if it is not turned on for long time. i have moded few lights that way, i mount leds on chunk of aluminum, and do not supply more that 700ma, none light had any issue so far. i would not be doing 10w conversion that way, but 1w or even 2w, easy.
> 
> what you Farhaj need is a cree xml\xpl\xpg led on a star does not matter what size of the star, 14-16-20mm, any size you can get. than you need an aliminum heatsink,. a 3-4mm thick aluminum, you need a circle made cut out that would fit inside your light's head, mount the led on the circle, with screws, you could also use thermal epoxy, but idk how available it is in your location, but i'm sure you can manage to find 2 small screws and drill 2 holes in the circle for them. just make sure the sirfice of the circle if flat and straight, so the led sits on the mettal. use thrmal paste, if you can get it.
> than remove your board with 16 leds, and in its place put your circle with cree led. now as for reflector\optic. you can try to use yours, since you'l have only 1 led instead of 16, you will only need to use 1 of those reflectors, install your circle with cree led under your reflectors (the shiny thingy) make sure new led alligns with one of the holes, i'm pretty sure cree led at 350-500ma will be a lot brighter that all your 16 old leds were, even using just 1 of the 16 reflectors (i'd use the one on theoutside, those reflectors have more surfice that the one in the center.
> ...



Thanks for the detailed expaliantion.. These words have motivated me more into my this small project..

I want to know few things from u regarding the details you wrote plus anyone others also can share their views..

1) you know the current light hardly produces like between 70-80 lumens.. But i want to throw out like close to >800 lumens.. So that i can get more light with the least power (watts) required.. So, which Cree LEDs are those ( I have read XM-L2 a lot here.. what about the others) ; assuming the other materials for now as negligible ( such as the casing of aluminuim and heat sinks)... 

2) If not 800 lumens then what is the max lumens i can expect to throw with the least mA or watts required..

3) what are the major differences between other types of Cree Leds from XM-L2 when though they are able to produce the same lumens.. I mean why are their differnet names and shapes of so many types..

4) so, with the least type of watts required like lets say 5 watts ; can the 4v battery work out. Or i can go for a different battery.. Their is enough space inside to put a different battery in..

5) reflectors.. So the current reflector which I have in it; is it good enough to reflect out for just a Led if fitted nicely in.. Neglecting the material it is made up of.. Just like focusing its shape and size..

6) when we say thay lumens are not worth without the reflector. (As said on previous posts top) What exactly it means; like if 900 lumens is thrown without the reflector.. The beam wont be able to focus or penetrate inside the water or how.. And then how does a simple light bulb explains when it has no reflector and it shines out and gives light..

I know i have asked a lot to guys here.. But helping each other only can show a sign of good brotherhood ; though if it is not clear to a person; explaining again would show more hospitality..


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## alpg88 (Dec 4, 2014)

1. 800lm is a lot heatwise, you will need to build whole different head for that, 900lm is about 10watts. xml2 has to be driven at 3A to get those lumens. 
700ma is the most i would drive the led in sealed plastic head. 
idk what esle to tell you about xml2, it is the most lm per watt today on the market.
2 you should be able to get 200-300lm, anything more you need to do more work. 
3 i do not want to repeat what other said many times, the difference is power and chip size. 
4 your battery should be ok for 1-2 watts. (350-700ma)
5 reflector you have should do its job, it is not a great quality reflector, but should do what it has to you are not looking for a beam to shine onto something 100meters away, you only need 4-5 feet underwater. also try that first if you do not like it, than look for other reflector, but first try what you already have.
6 yes led with no reflector will have light shining all around, it will not go as far as if it had a reflector. with no reflector 900lm the beam most liklely wont go thru 5 feet of water. but to be sure 100% you need to try it. try it with no reflector, than try with refector you already have see what works for you best.


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## Farhaj (Dec 4, 2014)

alpg88 said:


> 1. 800lm is a lot heatwise, you will need to build whole different head for that, 900lm is about 10watts. xml2 has to be driven at 3A to get those lumens.
> 700ma is the most i would drive the led in sealed plastic head.
> idk what esle to tell you about xml2, it is the most lm per watt today on the market.
> 2 you should be able to get 200-300lm, anything more you need to do more work.
> ...



Thanks for telling me more..

1) I just have to know more about this the LEDs CrEE has as below.. What you say are the differnces in between them and which category suits more for flash lights..

2) also what are the differences in between these discrete , Arrays and Integrated Arrays.. And so on..





Discrete
MH-B
ML-B
ML-C 
ML-E 
MX-3 
MX-6 
XB-D
XB-E HV White 
XB-G HV White 
XB-H
XH-B 
XH-G
XM-L
XM-L HV White 
XM-L2
XP-C 
XP-E
XP-E HE White 
XP-E2
XP-G 
XP-G2
XP-L
XQ-B
XQ-D
XQ-E
XR-C 
XR-E 
XT-E HV White
XT-E Royal 
XT-E White
Arrays
MC-E
MK-R 
MK-R2 
MP-L EasyWhite
MT-G EasyWhite
MT-G2 EasyWhite
XM-L Color
XM-L EasyWhite
XM-L2 EasyWhite
Integrated Arrays
CXA1304
CXA1310
CXA1507
CXA1510
CXA1512
CXA1520
CXA1816
CXA1820
CXA1830
CXA1850
CXA2520
CXA2530
CXA2540
CXA2590
CXA3050
CXA3070
CXA3590
CXA2011


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 4, 2014)

Dude... someone is not going to list every difference of every LED...

You need to do your own research too... 
For the third time... here is the link to the info regarding the differences....

http://flashlightwiki.com/Cree

You need to read it to understand the differences, any not listed there you can also find online... you need to do research also...


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## deeuubee (Dec 5, 2014)

Farhaj- I know you're determined to modify your headlight, but as the saying goes, "you're beating a dead horse".

The heat from the amount of light that you are talking about would melt the plastic housing in a short time.
It will cost you more to do it than to buy a head light already made. 
One of the biggest hurdles I think is that no one but you knows the availability of the components in Saudi Arabia.
There may be import restrictions on some of these things. Can you receive parts from places like DX dot com?
If so, you would be much better of buying a small underwater dive flashlight to see underwater, and use your headlight as is to navigate.

Even the smallest would give you better visibility than the headlight.


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## Farhaj (Dec 21, 2014)

Guys .. 

1) Their has been a new Cree Led out .. XHP50 & XHP70.. They say it can give out more light with less energy required.. So what are your views about this one .. 

2) If, I get it and place that and modify it with me light by driving it only with less Amperes like 1-2 Amps OR at 2-3 Watts.. What Lumens I can expect ( neglecting the rest such as heat sink & outer covers)...


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 21, 2014)

/facepalm
The dead horse is being beaten again it seems...


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## Farhaj (Dec 22, 2014)

Jaegerbomb said:


> /facepalm
> The dead horse is being beaten again it seems...



I just asked about the new LEDs.. Tell me if you guys know about it


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 22, 2014)

There is a complete thread discussing these new LEDs...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/391758

You cannot ignore housings and heatsinks


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## Farhaj (Dec 22, 2014)

Jaegerbomb said:


> There is a complete thread discussing these new LEDs...
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/391758
> 
> You cannot ignore housings and heatsinks



Hmmm...

I could not get from it how much lumens per 1 watts are produced from XHP-50 & XHP-70... (i.e.. If 1 watts are given to each LED only) .. Not 6v or 12v..


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 22, 2014)

These new LEDs are for 6v and 12v applications and not currently for small battery/flashlight size applications... the info in the thread mentions this in the first two pages

The last page references 123lumens for Watt also... There is a plethora of information provided for your reading there


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## Farhaj (Dec 22, 2014)

If this one produces 123 lumens per watts ; then their are their not other Cree Leds which produces more than 123 lumens per watts such as XM-L2


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## alpg88 (Dec 22, 2014)

dude, you should really read what everyone tells you to read, your 123lm\w are only achevable at certain current, usuallty low current, which does not mean that it will have same lm\w at higher current. driving any led at max or close to max, would definatly not give you 123lm w ratings.


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## Farhaj (Dec 22, 2014)

alpg88 said:


> dude, you should really read what everyone tells you to read, your 123lm\w are only achevable at certain current, usuallty low current, which does not mean that it will have same lm\w at higher current. driving any led at max or close to max, would definatly not give you 123lm w ratings.



U are mixing up things for me.. U see current (A) * Voltage (V) = Power (watts)..

So if u say still 123 lms/watts are achieveable using high current, then it means the Voltage (V) has been reduced in this case as V * I = Power ...


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 22, 2014)

Lads... look at all threads by this person... we have all tried to help to the best of our ability...
and the same thread appears again and again
Farhaj... please look at the links provided across all your threads...
Please do not ask the same questions again... we are trying to help


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