# bench for my mini-lathe ...



## wquiles (Jan 12, 2006)

I am almost ready to turn on my new-to-me Cummins mini lathe - I am almost done with my new sturdy bench for it. I took these old desk tops (extremely heavy 1 and 1/2 inch thick MDF with formica tops and rubber edges):






and along several scrap pieces of 2"x8" (which I ripped to create 2"x4"'s), with some heavy duty braces and screws from Home Depot, I built the following bench:















Since my lathe is only about 100 pounds, this bench is a serious overkill. Once I add the bottom shelf (which will be screwed to the bottom braces), this "thing" should be heavy duty enough for a lathe of 300-400 pounds - maybe a future upgrade? :naughty: 

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 12, 2006)

Hey Will, That looks really nice. I'm guessing 5 foot long and 24 inches deep?

You'll find that to ber plenty of room for the lathe, and almost enogh for the accessories, stock, etc. 

Daniel


----------



## PEU (Jan 12, 2006)

thats one heavy duty table, very nice indeed!!

It only lacks the machinist mess  but wait, you will have it 5 minutes after you start turning something 

you made it to work seated or standup?


Pablo


----------



## wquiles (Jan 12, 2006)

gadget_lover said:


> Hey Will, That looks really nice. I'm guessing 5 foot long and 24 inches deep?
> 
> You'll find that to ber plenty of room for the lathe, and almost enogh for the accessories, stock, etc.
> 
> Daniel


Thanks much Daniel. The bulk of the machining/lathe material I have been reading/studying has come from the links you gave me, so I do feel ready for the simple operations thanks to you :bow:

Yes, the bench is about 54" long, "24 wide, and the top is 30" from the floor 





PEU said:


> thats one heavy duty table, very nice indeed!!
> 
> It only lacks the machinist mess  but wait, you will have it 5 minutes after you start turning something
> 
> ...


Don't worry about the mess - that will start this weekend when I finish the bench and mount the mini-lathe to start turning and facing 6061 (about 3/8" thick) that I bought to practice/play with 

The top is exactly 30" from the floor, so it will work great with the tall chair that I use or standing. It was not designed to work while seated in a normal desk chair.



Not shown yet (but based on photos that you folks have posted in this sub-forum) is a 24" wide dual T8 fluorecent lamp (Daylight tint!) that will be about 18-24" right above the top of the lathe, to clearly iluminate the work area (I will be hanging it from the shelves right above the lathe against the wall). From everything that I read so far, you "need" good lighting to do good machining work 

Will


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jan 12, 2006)

That's a cool bench for the mini lathe. Though if anyone wants to use this design for a bigger one they probably would need to stiffen it up dramatically. As it is you also might want to add diagonal braces. As the fasteners loosen your bench might get wobbly as-is.

Congrats on entering the bench club. When I got my 10" Atlas it was on a 50+ year old bench made out of peach crates and scrap wood. As you cranked the carriage from one end to the other the whole thing would rock back and forth!






I ended up trading for some iron legs off an antique that was scrapped, and built a top out of old 1x12"s:






Looks good with the machine on it:






But when I get my new/old 12" Clausing put back together I won't have to deal with benches any more. The intergrated cabinet weighs around 300 pounds by itself. Someone else's identical lathe:


----------



## wquiles (Jan 12, 2006)

ABTOMAT said:


> That's a cool bench for the mini lathe. Though if anyone wants to use this design for a bigger one they probably would need to stiffen it up dramatically. As it is you also might want to add diagonal braces. As the fasteners loosen your bench might get wobbly as-is.


Everything is screwed together, but you are right with time it might loosen. Good tips on the diagonal braces 





ABTOMAT said:


> Congrats on entering the bench club. When I got my 10" Atlas it was on a 50+ year old bench made out of peach crates and scrap wood. As you cranked the carriage from one end to the other the whole thing would rock back and forth!


Man!. I can only imagine the whole bench moving . Of course, compared to my mini-lathe, that Atlas 10" sure looks a lot more serious!

Will


----------



## sortafast (Jan 12, 2006)

that bench is core. Theres enough room left up there to put a Mini mill, convert the whole mess to cnc, and put the comp up there. Nice work BTW. I think if i were to do that it would lend itself to the term hack very well. Lack of patience is not a good thing when working on stuff.


----------



## wquiles (Jan 12, 2006)

sortafast said:


> that bench is core. Theres enough room left up there to put a Mini mill, convert the whole mess to cnc, and put the comp up there. Nice work BTW. I think if i were to do that it would lend itself to the term hack very well. Lack of patience is not a good thing when working on stuff.


Thanks. The used Cummins 7x12 that I got included a small mill attachment, so at least short term, I will not be buying a mini-mill (yet!).

Will


----------



## wquiles (Jan 13, 2006)

Guys,

I am about to actually mount the mini-lathe on that bench in the photos, and I have a potentially stupid question in terms of making the most use of the space on that bench. Maybe I am worrying too much about doing this "perfectly", but I figure you guys must have a strong opinion of what works and what does not 

From left to right, where within the bench should I bolt the lathe? To the left-most side of the bench? To the right-most side of the bench? To the middle of the bench? 

What about front to back? I am thinking in the middle, but I really don't know what is most practical?

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 13, 2006)

I can't speak with authority, but I think you will be best served by placing to the left side. You do not need to bolt it down inititially, so you can play with it a bit.

The headstock has a hole all the way through it. Sometimes you will want to insert a long piece through there from the back. I've done that with a 4 foot 1/2 inch bar where I wanted to trim just a few inches off the end. If yo u put the lathe to the left and add a mill latter you may have to juggle the mill placement to get a clear shot into the headstock.

Watch out for the free end "whipping" if turning at high speed with a lot sticking out of the tailstock.

The front to back is an interesting issue. I've had mine on a workmate portable workbench, making the front edge of the lathe about 8 inches from the edge of the stand. You will need to be able to lean over to look at the piece you are working on from all angles, to make measurements, etc. That implies that you don't want ot too far back. Again, it will work fine without bolting down so you have a while to get it the way you want.

Daniel


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jan 13, 2006)

In general you want it as close as possible to the you, without risking tipping over. Or if you have a chip tray, enough space to allow it to cover the space under both sides.


----------



## wquiles (Jan 13, 2006)

Thank you both :rock:

I will try your suggestions this weekend and report later how it went 

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 15, 2006)

Well, It's Sunday afternoon, and we have not heard from Will. Any one else figure he's too busy playing with his new toy to post?


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jan 15, 2006)

Either that or he put the lathe too close to the edge.


----------



## wquiles (Jan 15, 2006)

OK, OK, I am running "somewhat" late in posting some pictures - can I guy get a break around here?  

I bolted to the wall's studs a 2x2" (scrap from the prior ripping operations on 2x8" and 2x6" stock) and then bolted the table to this 2x2 - the table is incredibly steady and rock solid:






I bolted the lathe close to the front, but trying not to have the handles go outside the table too much:






Left to right, it is pretty much in the middle, and I have a very nice "Daylight" FL right on top:






I went ahead and used the rubber feet to give it a "little" bit of vibration isolation, although I re-treaded the M6 into 1/4-20 in order to bolt it from the bottom using the factory holes:







By the way, which exact brand is this Quick Tool Holder? I need to know so that I can buy a few more holders for it:
















These are my initial (already owned) measurement tools:



























I did turn ON the lathe, tried low and high speeds, and everything seems to be running properly, although I have to dissaseble, clean, re-grease, and adjust everything since there is some too much play in a few places  

Now that the bench, light, and lathe are secured, I hope to start playing (cutting, that is) tomorrow night 

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 15, 2006)

That looks like a nice setup. Much nicer than mine. I'm glad that everything appears to be working properly. 

The toolpost appears to be the same as mine, made by TS engineering. 
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rmteo/_wsn/page2.html

I like mine, and have even made extra holders on my mill. The dovetail cuts are 60 degrees. You may even be able to make some for yourself using the milling attachment.

The compound and cross slide gibs are easy to adjust. The gibs that hold the saddle are a bit trickier and not intuitive. There will be some axial play (backlash) in the compound due to the way it's made. See the link at http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/lathefix.htm for one way the slop was removed. 

The backlash adjustment for the cross-slide should be in the manual.

Daniel


----------



## pbarrette (Jan 15, 2006)

Hi Will,

That QCTP is made by TS Engineering, but extra tool holders would probably be easier to buy from LittleMachineShop.com. Apparently LMS isn't carrying the TS-Eng toolposts anymore, but they still have the tool holders.

According to this page on LMS, the A2Z-CNC, TS Engineering and "Phase II Hobby" tool holders are basically interchangable. The A2Z and TS-E toolposts are virtually indistinguishable from each other, so it's a safe bet that you could get either of those brands and be perfectly fine.

I, personally, have the A2Z-CNC toolpost which I purchased in one of the unanodized, E-bay specials that A2Z frequently runs. Extra tool holders are great for me since I can dial in the tools in TurboCNC and get a damned near perfect zero through software after a tool change.

Hope this helps,
pb

EDIT: You're too fast for me Daniel.


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jan 15, 2006)

Lookin' good. Just one note: I don't know if mini lathes have special requirements for some reason, but most machine tools are oiled, not greased, except for some kinds of gearing, etc. Grease attracts grit and swarf in ways oil never could. The websites showing these things getting slathered in lithium grease made me wonder what was going on.


----------



## Morelite (Jan 15, 2006)

Very nice setup
I have the same lathe (Cummins 5258)
How do you like the DRO's? I have been thing about upgrading to them.


----------



## wquiles (Jan 15, 2006)

gadget_lover said:


> That looks like a nice setup. Much nicer than mine. I'm glad that everything appears to be working properly.
> 
> The toolpost appears to be the same as mine, made by TS engineering.
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rmteo/_wsn/page2.html
> ...


Thanks. I think that this time around, I will not get more turning tool holders (so that I can try making my own with the milling atachment - which by the way I need help with it since I don't even know how to mount it :sweat: ), but I will go ahead and order the cut-off tool holder and the boring holder to complete the minimum set to start 








pbarrette said:


> Hi Will,
> 
> That QCTP is made by TS Engineering, but extra tool holders would probably be easier to buy from LittleMachineShop.com. Apparently LMS isn't carrying the TS-Eng toolposts anymore, but they still have the tool holders.
> 
> ...


Thanks much to you and Daniel for verifying this fact. I just ordered a few tools from LMS and based on this information I ordered the ones from A2Z since they were a tad cheaper 






ABTOMAT said:


> Lookin' good. Just one note: I don't know if mini lathes have special requirements for some reason, but most machine tools are oiled, not greased, except for some kinds of gearing, etc. Grease attracts grit and swarf in ways oil never could. The websites showing these things getting slathered in lithium grease made me wonder what was going on.


Thank you very much for saying so!. I have been reading a lot and EVERYONE is suggesting using lithium grease on the mini-lathe. My used mini-lathe (which the owner admited using lithium grease) is so freaking dirty and nasty that I don't know where to start cleaning it  . I am used to firearms and cleaning stuff for them, and there are tons of low-friction, dry lubricants that work wonders. What do you use? 






Morelite said:


> Very nice setup
> I have the same lathe (Cummins 5258)
> How do you like the DRO's? I have been thing about upgrading to them.


I just got it (used), so I really don't have a good opinion, except that they seem to work OK. Mines need new batteries - anyone know how to change them and what size are they? (I did not get any instructions/manuals with the DRO's - they were already installed).

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 16, 2006)

You are welcome, Will.

The DRO has a battery compartment on the right side secured by a philips head screw. The battery is the LM44 that is used in the digital calipers. 1.5 volt button cell. (double check that number, since I'm reciting from memory) The DRO docs only give you installation information.

I like the DRO, but it's important to realize that they track leadscrew turns, not the actual position. It's possible for the compound to be highly inaccurate if the saddle has moved.

The DRO kit is easy to install (took less than an hour) BUT I had some issues because the handle scraped on the DRO housing, making it stiff and unresponsive. More about that later. The kit includes a new compound slide and matching 20 tpi leadscrew, so each rotation is .050 inch. It includes a new leadscrew and nut for the cross-slide too, again giving 20 TPI. It's nice having true inch travel, as in 10 turns = .5 inch.

The compound leadscrew is the weak point (in my opinioin) because the shaft is held in place by the handle on one side and a turned shoulder on the other. I could not get mine tight enough to reduce the slop without tightening it to the point where it was hard to turn.

To correct that, I built an aluminum retainer to bear against the shoulder, trapping it against the mounting block. Now there's no stress on the DRO mechanism and the backlash is very predictable. I can post pictures if requested, though it's not pretty.

I've not used the milling attachment. From the description at LMS you take off the compound and attach it there. In essence you back the compound all the way out, then remove the two bolts that hold it down. 
Reference: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1681 . 

So, Have you made any chips yet?

Daniel


----------



## ABTOMAT (Jan 16, 2006)

wquiles said:


> Thank you very much for saying so!. I have been reading a lot and EVERYONE is suggesting using lithium grease on the mini-lathe. My used mini-lathe (which the owner admited using lithium grease) is so freaking dirty and nasty that I don't know where to start cleaning it . I am used to firearms and cleaning stuff for them, and there are tons of low-friction, dry lubricants that work wonders. What do you use?
> Will



In general, high-speed bearings use light oil (spindle oil, like Mobile Velocite), feed screws and almost everything else (controls, screws, etc) use medium oil 20-30wt, and ways use either that or specific heavy way oil (Mobile Vactra). Whatever oil you use, it should be non-detergent. Open gearing usually uses "open gear lube" or heavy oil, or grease if you're careful. Keep in mind that the mini lathe doesn't use all this stuff. The spindle bearings are sealed and the gears are plastic. I guess silicone oil would good for the gears but I really don't know.

Remember that machine tools are not maintenance-free. Clean after every use, oil before every use. Screws, bearings, ways, everything. That's the way it works. If all the moving surfaces on parts aren't shiny with lubricant you're not using enough.

That little lathe of yours isn't dirty or nasty. I wish everything I found was that clean. The Clausing I'm working on right now will have to be dissasembled down to the last part and scrubbed with solvents before it can even be used. All 900 pounds of it. That's usually how used tools end up when they're not cared for. In my case the guy who had it before me never used it and kept spraying motor oil on it to keep it from rusting. The guy he got it from used it all the time and never cleaned it.


----------



## wquiles (Jan 16, 2006)

gadget_lover said:


> The DRO has a battery compartment on the right side secured by a philips head screw. The battery is the LM44 that is used in the digital calipers. 1.5 volt button cell. (double check that number, since I'm reciting from memory) The DRO docs only give you installation information.


Thanks, I will try to get the old batteries out tonight 






gadget_lover said:


> I like the DRO, but it's important to realize that they track leadscrew turns, not the actual position. It's possible for the compound to be highly inaccurate if the saddle has moved.
> 
> The DRO kit is easy to install (took less than an hour) BUT I had some issues because the handle scraped on the DRO housing, making it stiff and unresponsive. More about that later. The kit includes a new compound slide and matching 20 tpi leadscrew, so each rotation is .050 inch. It includes a new leadscrew and nut for the cross-slide too, again giving 20 TPI. It's nice having true inch travel, as in 10 turns = .5 inch.
> 
> ...


Yes, please!. I want to make this mod to mine as well 







gadget_lover said:


> I've not used the milling attachment. From the description at LMS you take off the compound and attach it there. In essence you back the compound all the way out, then remove the two bolts that hold it down.
> Reference: http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1681 .


Actually, that link allowed me to identify three more parts in the "box" that belong to the milling attachment, which until now I had no clue where they go!. When I dissasemble to clean, I will try it out to see how it works 






gadget_lover said:


> So, Have you made any chips yet?


I hate to admit that I ran out of time last night again 






ABTOMAT said:


> In general, high-speed bearings use light oil (spindle oil, like Mobile Velocite), feed screws and almost everything else (controls, screws, etc) use medium oil 20-30wt, and ways use either that or specific heavy way oil (Mobile Vactra). Whatever oil you use, it should be non-detergent. Open gearing usually uses "open gear lube" or heavy oil, or grease if you're careful. Keep in mind that the mini lathe doesn't use all this stuff. The spindle bearings are sealed and the gears are plastic. I guess silicone oil would good for the gears but I really don't know.
> 
> Remember that machine tools are not maintenance-free. Clean after every use, oil before every use. Screws, bearings, ways, everything. That's the way it works. If all the moving surfaces on parts aren't shiny with lubricant you're not using enough.
> 
> That little lathe of yours isn't dirty or nasty. I wish everything I found was that clean. The Clausing I'm working on right now will have to be dissasembled down to the last part and scrubbed with solvents before it can even be used. All 900 pounds of it. That's usually how used tools end up when they're not cared for. In my case the guy who had it before me never used it and kept spraying motor oil on it to keep it from rusting. The guy he got it from used it all the time and never cleaned it.


Good point. Regular maintenance will improve things with this used lathe 





ABTOMAT said:


> That little lathe of yours isn't dirty or nasty. I wish everything I found was that clean. The Clausing I'm working on right now will have to be dissasembled down to the last part and scrubbed with solvents before it can even be used. All 900 pounds of it. That's usually how used tools end up when they're not cared for. In my case the guy who had it before me never used it and kept spraying motor oil on it to keep it from rusting. The guy he got it from used it all the time and never cleaned it.


Well, this lathe has some weird looking hard residue all over, like somehting melted or something - there is not much metal exposed well, so I can't tell if there is any rust. Even it it were "clean", I still want to clean it anyway so that I can learn how to adjust things 

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 16, 2006)

The residue could be one of two things. If it's red and slightly sticky it is probably the packing grease (cosmoline) that protects it from rusting during shipping. Sea air can be highly corrosive, and these probably sit in shipping containers at the ports for long periods.

I believe you said the previous owner turned writing pens on this lathe. My neighbor does that too, but uses a wood lathe to do it. I was shocked when he finished a pen by turning the lathe on and spraying poly-eurathane on the spinning pen. The pen came out great but I'm sure some overspary hit his lathe. If this guy used the lathe for production I can imagine a bit of build up.

I'll post the DRO mod on a seperate thread for you.

Daniel

Daniel


----------



## wquiles (Jan 17, 2006)

It is not red and it is not cosmoline - it is something else. But no matter - I will be cleaning all surfaces soon 

I finally got to create some chips last night!. I did a little bit of boring (both by hand and by using the built-in screw drive) and some facing of a solid 3/8" 6061 Alu rod. The lathe definitely had way too much play on the cross slide, but it was fun, specially getting the right high of the cutting edge to adjust to the centerline of the stock, to prevent the small nibble at the middle 

Does engaging and disengaging the screw drive supposed to move the carriage much? Mine did some :-(

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 17, 2006)

wquiles said:


> Does engaging and disengaging the screw drive supposed to move the carriage much? Mine did some :-(
> 
> Will




Good work, Will. Chips a flying!

Once adjusted, the QC tool holders will have the proper height for that tool. That's their real value since you don't have to re-adjust each time.

The screw drive has a pitch of 16 TPI. Engaging the half-nuts will move the carriage enough to engage the nut's threads with those of the screw. In a word... Yes it's normal.

I never think of using the screw drive when boring. I tend to feed by hand so I can feel the progress and stop before I bottom out. I'll consider it for the next project, since boring can be boring.

Daniel


----------



## wquiles (Jan 17, 2006)

gadget_lover said:


> Good work, Will. Chips a flying!


Well, nothing I can brag about. Simple turning and facing. Just getting use to the machine 






Here is a close-up of the actual surface (1024x768 size, 217KB file), where you can see the individual grooves created by the sharp tip on the HSS tool that I used 
http://m3coupe.com/machining/IMG_3141_Large.JPG





gadget_lover said:


> Once adjusted, the QC tool holders will have the proper height for that tool. That's their real value since you don't have to re-adjust each time.
> 
> The screw drive has a pitch of 16 TPI. Engaging the half-nuts will move the carriage enough to engage the nut's threads with those of the screw. In a word... Yes it's normal.
> 
> ...


Cool - thanks 

Will


----------



## wquiles (Jan 29, 2006)

Well, I am done getting the lathe ready (again). This time I dissasembled everything, and I mean everything on the carrier, degreased, cleaned, oil, re-assembled, and re-adjusted 

Man - o - man. This "thing" was in bad shape from all kinds of crud. The pieces were so loose that some items had abnormal wear since they were being run without adjustment . There was play in almost all directions of travel - now that I am done, just nice and solid 

The best thing about completely putting everything apart is that I now trully know how everything works together. I guess it was a great learning session. A get-to-know the machine experience!

I can now "really" use it to create some chips 

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 30, 2006)

Hey Will. That is a good learning experience. Did you figure out what that gunk was?

Dan


----------



## wquiles (Jan 30, 2006)

Dan,

It was all kinds of nasty stuff. Metal particles, plastic particles, old grease, old oil, dust, dirt, etc.. A few pieces had some of the original comsmolite still left in them, but not much 

The only part that I found damaged was the quick-action mechanism that holds the tailstock (the part that holds the dril chuck) to the rail. I guess it was used SO much and so hard that some part of it is broken. On this guide it is shown as item # 21, although on my lathe is not a screw, but the quick acting lever. Question. If I get a whole new tailstock (item #12 in that picture), what are the chances that the new tailstock will still be perfectly centered to the chuck?

The looseness in the machine couldn't all come from shipping it to me, so I get the impression that the machine was simply not maintained as good as it could/should had been. By the way, I did use 15W50 Mobil 1 oil on all metal-to-metal surfaces 

I kind of suspected this somewhat (being used, you know nothing about the "exact" condition), but I also knew before buying it that places like the LMS (http://www.littlemachineshop.com/) sell all replacement parts, so I bought it anyway since I knew I could replace/fix everything on the lathe, specially due to several here (including yourself) that own/operate the same basic machine 

Will


----------



## gadget_lover (Jan 30, 2006)

The tailstock has adjustments to move it front to back, but not axially nor up and down. A new one should be OK.

Glad to hear that the wear was within the range of the adjsutments. Cool!

Before you go and buy a new tailstock, you should make sure it's not just mis-adjusted. The foot at the bottom of the tailstock is just a plate that presses against the underside of the ways. On the original design a large nut pulls the foot up. In the camlock design, a lever (supported by a square collar) with a cam pulls it up. The camlock mech is the large black rectangle.





The foot is not symetrical, and it has to sit offset as shown in this picture.





The HF and the Cummins are identical. The HF on the left has the original nut to secure the tailstock. The yellow one has the LMS cam action lock. The cam action unit re-used the original foot. Note that I've picked up a spring to keep the foot from flopping out of position.





The adjustment for the camlock comes from rotating the foot. This screws it in or out of the camlock mechanism. If you can't find a postion that works, you may have to remove camlock lever and rotate the camlock nut 1/2 turn.

There's not a lot to wear in this camlock design. The bottom of the ways and the surface of the foot could polish each other. The cam could wear down, as could the surface that the camlock mech rests upon. In each of these cases, the foot could be rotated to make it fit tighter.

Daniel


----------

