# Picked up new Duracell Mobile Charger



## Kankujoe (Apr 10, 2008)

I think I found a decent travel charger (Duracell Mobile Charger - CEF-23) to suppliment my primary "home" charger (LaCrosse BC-900U). 

I picked it up at Wally World for $25. It came with 2AA & 2AAA Duracell LSDs.

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/B000XSA5WW/ref=_dp_top?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

*NLee the Engineer* did a good review of it on Amazon. I believe a few forum members have complimented his knowledge and reviews. 

Anyone here have and experience with this newly available charger?


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## Mr Happy (Apr 10, 2008)

I have the similar CEF21 and like it.

The only disadvantage I have heard of these chargers is the slightly larger size compared to the most compact travel chargers out there. Personally I don't find the size a big problem and everything else about them is good.


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## Kankujoe (Apr 10, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I have the similar CEF21 and like it.
> 
> The only disadvantage I have heard of these chargers is the slightly larger size compared to the most compact travel chargers out there. Personally I don't find the size a big problem and everything else about them is good.


 
That is good to know... aside from the above review I have not found much comprehensive information about this new charger. None of the vendors who have them (many don't have them in stock yet) offer any detailed info on the specs. And the packaging info is not very informative.

One interesting thing about this Mobile Charger is that you can charge or run other devices (cell phones, PDA, iPods, etc.) off of it via it's USB port. You can even use Alkaline batteries to charge your devices via the USB port or you can run/charge external devices via AC or DC as well. 

Pretty cool dual purpose unit!


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## Mr Happy (Apr 10, 2008)

The Mobile Charger has been available in Target at $25 for a few months now. It seems like it charges slightly faster than the one I have; it charges at 550 mA per channel compared to 400 mA. That would mean it should charge Eneloops in about 4 hours.

It does seem like a very flexible device. Report back when you have tried it out and tell us how you like it.


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## paulr (Apr 10, 2008)

Are the charging channels independent?


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## Mr Happy (Apr 10, 2008)

paulr said:


> Are the charging channels independent?


Yes, four channels each with an individual in-progress/completed light.


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## Kankujoe (Apr 10, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> The Mobile Charger has been available in Target at $25 for a few months now. It seems like it charges slightly faster than the one I have; it charges at 550 mA per channel compared to 400 mA. That would mean it should charge Eneloops in about 4 hours.
> 
> It does seem like a very flexible device. Report back when you have tried it out and tell us how you like it.


 
I will report back when I have had a change to use it to both charge NiMHs and when I have a chance to use the USB port to run/charge one of my mobile devices.

Question for you Mr. Happy... 

You say that charging at 550 mA will charge my 2100 mA LSDs in about 4 hours. Is that break down for 1, 2, 3 or 4 cells individually or is it charging all four cells at one time? I've seen in literature elsewhere that 1 to 2 cells charge in 4 hours and 3 to 4 cells take longer (7-8 hours?). Since it is a smart charger and has individual channels will it charge all 4 cells in the 4 hour time frame or will it take longer? The literature that came with it does not list any time frame or chart.

Thanks,


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## Mr Happy (Apr 10, 2008)

Kankujoe said:


> Question for you Mr. Happy...
> 
> You say that charging at 550 mA will charge my 2100 mA LSDs in about 4 hours. Is that break down for 1, 2, 3 or 4 cells individually or is it charging all four cells at one time? I've seen in literature elsewhere that 1 to 2 cells charge in 4 hours and 3 to 4 cells take longer (7-8 hours?). Since it is a smart charger and has individual channels will it charge all 4 cells in the 4 hour time frame or will it take longer? The literature that came with it does not list any time frame or chart.


It should be that it can charge all four cells at 550 mA at the same time, but as I don't own the charger I can't confirm it. Maybe you can time it and find out for us?

It is true that some chargers will charge 1 or 2 cells faster than 3 or 4 cells, but this is because their internal power supply is limited in the total output it can provide. A charger with a larger and more capable power supply can overcome this limitation.


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## FlaGator (Apr 10, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> It should be that it can charge all four cells at 550 mA at the same time, but as I don't own the charger I can't confirm it. Maybe you can time it and find out for us?
> 
> It is true that some chargers will charge 1 or 2 cells faster than 3 or 4 cells, but this is because their internal power supply is limited in the total output it can provide. A charger with a larger and more capable power supply can overcome this limitation.


 
I have two and use them occasionally. One is in my office at work and the second stays in my car. It is bulky, but plugs into the wall with no adapter and can be used horizontally as well. I also like the fact it comes with a 12v adapter.

It is an independent channel charger and the 550 mA rate is for each slot.


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## Jackson (Apr 10, 2008)

I looked into this charger a few weeks back. With no info available, I contacted Duracell and asked if it could charge a single battery (to determine if it is single channel) and how long it takes to charge (to determine the charge current since that is not listed on the package, the web site or any of the vendor sites.)

This was the response:
"In regards to your inquiry you are able to charge just one battery at a time. Unfortunately the rest of the information you requested is unavailable."

Thanks for the info. It sounds like this is a decent charger. If only Duracell was able to communicate that fact.


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## Mr Happy (Apr 10, 2008)

Jackson said:


> Thanks for the info. It sounds like this is a decent charger. If only Duracell was able to communicate that fact.


Unfortunately Duracell does not seem big on communication. Their US website at www.duracell.com is a case in point. Absolutely hopeless. All fluff and no substance.


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## Kankujoe (Apr 11, 2008)

I have not been able to find any official Duracell supplied info online about this charger. 

This charger does indeed have 4 independent channels. 

It lists on the back of the charger the following:

Input: 100-240V AC, 50/60Hz 8W or DC 12V 500mA

Output: 1.4V DC 550mA per slot (1-4 AA), 1.4 DC 550mA per slot (1-4 AAA), USB 5V DC 500mA

I believe it will work fine for my desired travel applications.

The only downside I see so far is that it came with the Chinese made Duracell LSDs. The upside I guess is that I can compair the quality of the Chinese vs. Japanese Duracell cells.


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## Kankujoe (Apr 13, 2008)

I've used this charger to "top off" two new 4 packs of Duracell LSDs. It took roughy 20 minutes to do so. Each red LED becomes green independently as the charge is complete. It will also charge any combo of AA or AAA.

I have also used it to charge my iPod and my Palm PDA via the USB port using NiMH batteries. I can't seem to get it to charge my cell phone (Motorola SLVR)? I don't understand this since I can charge my phone via USB using my notebook computer.


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## tslrc (Sep 16, 2008)

Has anyone used this to charge a Motorazr phone, and if so, how well does it work. We are just recovering from some massive power outages here in Ohio, and I could see this as a useful tool. I didn't lose power, but many family members have used my electricity to charge cell phones, Ipods. Also, will a standard USB cable from a camera work to charge my phone? The phone uses mini USB.


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## Marc999 (Oct 16, 2009)

I just picked up a duracell mobile charger. Model: CEF 23 from Canadian Tire.

What's the consensus on charging in a vertical position with the lid closed? Will the heat be a tad much? 

thanks,
Marc


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## Mr Happy (Oct 16, 2009)

Marc999 said:


> I just picked up a duracell mobile charger. Model: CEF 23 from Canadian Tire.
> 
> What's the consensus on charging in a vertical position with the lid closed? Will the heat be a tad much?


Chargers designed to plug directly into a wall outlet are usually best used in that orientation. Often the charger electronics that generate heat are placed at the top of the charger to keep the heat away from the batteries as much as possible.


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 16, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> Chargers designed to plug directly into a wall outlet are usually best used in that orientation. Often the charger electronics that generate heat are placed at the top of the charger to keep the heat away from the batteries as much as possible.


 
This is interesting because...

I use my Mobile Chargers exclusively in the horizontal position because I found (with IR thermometer) the top cell becomes hotter when used in the vertical position. As you said, the top has the "guts" that get hot. But when charging a full house, the top cell runs hotter near termination when the charger is vertical because the warmth from the other three cells are convecting upward and adding their heat to the top cell. I always charge with cover open.


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## flatline (Nov 5, 2009)

I just got my Duracell Mobile Charger to replace my older 30-minute charger and after cycling through a dozen cells, it seems that the top 2 positions get significantly hotter than the bottom 2 positions, even if only charging 2 cells at a time. The top of the charger gets noticeably warm to the touch no matter which positions are being used, so I attribute the increased cell temperature to the proximity of the heat generating components of the charging circuitry in the top of the charger.

I'm inclined to just pretend that the top 2 charging positions don't exist and use the bottom 2 positions exclusively. Am I over-reacting?

--flatline


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 6, 2009)

flatline said:


> I'm inclined to just pretend that the top 2 charging positions don't exist and use the bottom 2 positions exclusively. Am I over-reacting?
> 
> --flatline


 
Not over reacting. I take it one step further. When charging only two cells, I choose bays 1 & 3. This keeps not only a cell out of the hottest bay near the top edge, but also creates a vacant slot between the two cells being charged. This allows more cooling to occur since they are not "sharing" their generated heat as they would using bays 1 & 2. I actually confirmed this a while back while trying to decide the bay 1/2 or bay 1/3 pairs decision. So, no, you're not over reacting. Anal-retentive, maybe, but around here that just means you pick a number and wait in line.


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## joeparker54 (Nov 7, 2009)

flatline said:


> I'm inclined to just pretend that the top 2 charging positions don't exist and use the bottom 2 positions exclusively. Am I over-reacting?










you tell me if you're overreacting...

Sad thing is, I noticed it the other day and have no idea which battery it might even be. I'm sure it will show itself at the worst possible time...:shakehead


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## MarioJP (Nov 7, 2009)

Just curious. Does this charger heats up your batteries. I have 2 of these chargers but one partially fried for trying to charge my phone from usb. The other one works but its just been retired as it been replaced by LA crosse charger. I now have 2 of these LA Crosse chargers


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## PeAK (Nov 7, 2009)

Kankujoe said:


> I've used this charger to "top off" two new 4 packs of Duracell LSDs. It took roughy 20 minutes to do so. Each red LED becomes green independently as the charge is complete. It will also charge any combo of AA or AAA.
> .
> .
> .


It seems as if the Smartcharger is "terminating" the charge on the batteries correctly. Many of smart chargers use a negative delta-V drop scheme to determine when the battery is charged and this works very well with NiCads but with NiMH (even LSD) it is very dependent on the synergy with your battery charger._ One way to "test" how well your charger terminates is to discharge it with a 3 ohm resistor. The current drawn should be around 400mA and do this for about 10 minutes. If your charger charges at about 2x the discharge rate and should be able finish charging the battery in about 5 minutes time._ ​Beyond this time, the battery will start to heat up and the unit should have a back up scheme where a "set temperature" will stop the charge. I have some older batteries that always terminate using the second condition and I know this is not doing the battery any favours. Note that the state of the art Maha units are now foregoing the negative delta-V drop scheme which is widely used in smart chargers. Hopefully the new eneloop batteries will improve the synergy using the negative delta-V scheme.

P.S. I should mention that the older eneloop batteries, to their credit, do tend to terminate correctly on my charger which uses a rate of 1000 ,A to charge. This is around the 50% of the theorectical one-hour charge rate (i.e. 0.50x2000mA) which is recommended by NiMH battery manufacturers for generating a sufficient voltage drop at termination to be detected. Your mobile Duracell unit would be ideal for battery capacities up to 1100ma-hr.​


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 9, 2009)

joeparker54 said:


> you tell me if you're overreacting...
> 
> Sad thing is, I noticed it the other day and have no idea which battery it might even be. I'm sure it will show itself at the worst possible time...:shakehead


 

What are we seeing, and what caused it?


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## Mr Happy (Nov 9, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> What are we seeing, and what caused it?


Looks like a battery vented and sprayed stuff over the positive terminal of the charger.


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## joeparker54 (Nov 9, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> Looks like a battery vented and sprayed stuff over the positive terminal of the charger.


 
You are correct sir. A AA cell vented and discharged electrolyte solution while charging in the top bay of one of my duracell mobile chargers.


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## Eruditass (Nov 9, 2009)

Jackson said:


> I looked into this charger a few weeks back. With no info available, I contacted Duracell and asked if it could charge a single battery (to determine if it is single channel) and how long it takes to charge (to determine the charge current since that is not listed on the package, the web site or any of the vendor sites.)
> 
> This was the response:
> "In regards to your inquiry you are able to charge just one battery at a time. Unfortunately the rest of the information you requested is unavailable."
> ...


http://www.professional.duracell.com/product_data/datasheets/Specialities/06058m1_CEF23EU%28CEF23%29.pdf



Mr Happy said:


> Unfortunately Duracell does not seem big on communication. Their US website at www.duracell.com is a case in point. Absolutely hopeless. All fluff and no substance.




Gotta go to the "professional" site


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## Mr Happy (Nov 9, 2009)

Eruditass said:


> Gotta go to the "professional" site


Do you have a link? www.professional.duracell.com doesn't get me anywhere helpful.


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 9, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> Do you have a link? www.professional.duracell.com doesn't get me anywhere helpful.


I added SEVERAL LINKs to "www.professional.duracell.com/*" to my Sig Line LINKs a few weeks ago. Take a look...


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## Bones (Nov 10, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> Do you have a link? www.professional.duracell.com doesn't get me anywhere helpful.



Depending on how locked-down your browser is, deleting the www. prefix from the URL should forward you to the 'start' page, ie:

http://professional.duracell.com/start.asp

An alternate trove of information can also be sourced from this 'landing' page:

http://www.duracell.com/procell/landing.asp

Duracell's failure to provide links on their primary consumer pages to at least some of this data does both them and their consumers (including us) a disservice.


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## rumack (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm thinking about picking up one of these myself. Thanks to this site, I am now very interested in rechargeable batteries and I am slowly learning about proper charging techniques. If I recall correctly the recommended charge rate for the Eneloops is 0.5C, which would be 400mA for the AAA's. Since the charging rate with this unit is 550mA, does that mean it is not recommended for the AAA Eneloops?


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 24, 2009)

Deleted.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 24, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> Just FYI, I was in Big Lots today, and it seems they've restocked their shelves with more of these. Milpitas had ten on the pegs @ $14.99.


The Mobile or the Power Gauge?


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## mfm (Nov 24, 2009)

rumack said:


> I'm thinking about picking up one of these myself. Thanks to this site, I am now very interested in rechargeable batteries and I am slowly learning about proper charging techniques. If I recall correctly the recommended charge rate for the Eneloops is 0.5C, which would be 400mA for the AAA's. Since the charging rate with this unit is 550mA, does that mean it is not recommended for the AAA Eneloops?



0.5 is just one FAQ answer, there's lots of other recommendations and chargers from Sanyo. 0.5C-1C is certainly fine for Eneloops.


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 24, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> The Mobile or the Power Gauge?


 

Arrgh! :hairpull: Sorry, I am speaking of the Power Gauge. Deleted my post.


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## Kestrel (Dec 21, 2009)

So how have these chargers been working out for folks, esp. with regards to charge termination?

The reason I am asking is that I was hoping to use my Duracell mobile charger plus some el-cheapo 'C' holders to charge my Accupower NiMH C LSD cells.
I am thinking that there is a greatly-increased risk of missing the charge termination with this configuration - I am going from 2000 mAh Duraloops to 4000-4500 mAh Accupower C's. The 550 mA charge rate of this charger, while appropriate for AA's, would be too slow for these larger cells, giving them a greater chance of missing their neg delta V criterion.
If termination is missed, these cells will heat up (completely outside of the charger bays) - if there is a backup cell-temperature termination method in the Duracell mobile charger (I have no idea), I will have bypassed the backup termination indicator, if it's even present.
I originally would have prefered to adapt this charger than purchase a hobby charger for my Accupower C's, but now I'm thinking it's not a good idea. Any thoughts or suggestions?


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## mfm (Dec 22, 2009)

Kestrel said:


> I originally would have prefered to adapt this charger than purchase a hobby charger for my Accupower C's, but now I'm thinking it's not a good idea. Any thoughts or suggestions?



You are correct, and it will probably terminate on timer before your C-cells are charged anyway.


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## TakeTheActive (Dec 22, 2009)

*Can Anyone Help Fill In the 'Missing' Details in the Duracell Specs?*



mfm said:


> ...*it will probably terminate on timer* before your C-cells are charged anyway.


I would like to know MAX TIME (and MAX TEMP and TRICKLE CURRENT and -DELTAV) for:*TTA's NiMH/NiCD Battery Charger Specifications Thread* - *Duracell CEF23 Mobile Charger (w/USB)* (LOTs of UNKNOWNs!  )​
Thanks!


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## TakeTheActive (Dec 22, 2009)

*The Duracell CEF23 Charger is a *HOT* Little Bugger...*



Kestrel said:


> *So how have these chargers been working out for folks, esp. with regards to charge termination?*


*Test for how well batteries suit your charger*​
I was UNPLEASANTLY surprised at the results I achieved (to date) after all the POSITIVE '_CPF Press_' for this charger. :shrug:  :thinking:

But, I agree with *PeAK's* concept and plan to continue my testing... :candle:

Too bad that I appear to be the *ONLY* one...  :shakehead :sigh:


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 22, 2009)

*Re: The Duracell CEF23 Charger is a *HOT* Little Bugger...*



TakeTheActive said:


> *Test for how well batteries suit your charger*​
> 
> 
> 
> I was UNPLEASANTLY surprised at the results I achieved (to date) after all the POSITIVE '_CPF Press_' for this charger. :shrug:  :thinking:


 


> CHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA until 'Done'
> DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 212mAh
> CHARGED in CEF-23 until Green LED On: 43 minutes (550mA x 43/60hr = 394mAh) 86% Overcharge


 
As I see it, your 86% "overcharge" claim is based on a cascading series of erroneous assumptions. First, you are assuming the C9000 delivers a 100% charge, when even Maha states this is not the case. So, your 212 mAh discharge was not actually begun from a fully charged cell. Second, certainly someone of your inquisitive nature has discovered that the mAh "into" a cell during charging is always going to be higher than what you extract back out, due to charging inefficiencies. So it is fallacious to base your "overcharging" claim upon the observation that the charge "into" the cell was more than the charge you took out, especially when the C9000 did not fully charge it in the first place.


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## PeAK (Dec 22, 2009)

*Re: The Duracell CEF23 Charger is a *HOT* Little Bugger...*



Turbo DV8 said:


> As I see it, your 86% "overcharge" claim is based on a cascading series of erroneous assumptions. First, you are assuning the C9000 delivers a 100% charge, when even Maha states this is not the case. *So, your 212 mAh discharge was not actually begun from a fully charged cell*. Second, even you must understand that the mAh "into" a cell during charging is always going to be higher than what you extract back out, due to charging inefficiencies. *So it is fallacious to base your "overcharging" claim upon the observation that the charge "into" the cell was more than the charge you took out*, especially when the C9000 did not fully charge it in the first place.



Turbo,
I think the test and resulting numbers do have merit and can be used to gauge the "better chargers". Your first point has already been discussed and it basically boiled down to when the charger "thought" the battery was charged and whether or not it could *repeat detecting* the same charge point (aka watermark).

On the second point, you are free to define *"overcharging*" (i.e. TTA defiines it as charge ratio > 1) provided you define it clearly in your procedure that these terms are used liberally. It does not prevent you from altering them with additional factors to possibly clarify his existing data. For example, the coulometric efficiency would result in the overcharge numbers becoming 24% (i.e. 1.86*66)...better but still not accurate to 5 decimal points.

Footnote:Last, if you look at TTAs data in light of the 66% coloumertic efficiency number (at best), then the minimum charge ratio should be 150%. The Lacrosse numbers seem to hover around this number, while the Maha numbers tend to be much less...this would indicate early termination.


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 22, 2009)

*Re: The Duracell CEF23 Charger is a *HOT* Little Bugger...*



PeAK said:


> Last... the minimum charge ratio should be 150%. The Lacrosse numbers seem to hover around this number, _while the Maha numbers tend to be much less...*this would indicate early termination*_.


 
I'm sorry, did I miss something? Doesn't this corroborate the very point I was making?



> So it is fallacious to base your "overcharging" claim upon the observation that the charge "into" the cell was more than the charge you took out, _*especially when the C9000 did not fully charge it in the first place.*_


 
His assertion that the Mobile Charger is over charging is based upon observations derived from a charger that is under charging. All I see in *"The Test"* is a comparison between apples with oranges.


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## bob_ninja (Dec 24, 2009)

It is on sale here so I picked it up (comes with 2AAs and 2AAAs).
I paid only about $17 (Canadian is close to USD$). Considering cells alone are at least $10, that is heck of a cheap charger!!!!

I tried some of my crappy cells (unknown state of charge) followed by a crappy AAA and 3 Eneloops. All terminations seemed to be fine around 1.42V (open circuit). Also I was impressed that neither unit nor cells heated up much (certainly less than my BC900 towards the end of charge).

Of course I took the cover off, useless. Considering the price I am very happy with it. The USB charging function is very useful as I could use it when away from home/office.


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## Light Sabre (Dec 24, 2009)

I'm doing my end of year charging and testing of my NMH batteries. Cycle and test regular NMH so I can match mAh's and get rid of the low performers. I just top off my LSD Hybrids and Duraloops. I topped off my Hybrids on the Moblie Charger for the first time and they did get pretty warm 120F using a wired outdoor thermometer. The Duraloops were a lot cooler but I topped off the Duraloops first, and the Hybrids 2nd. So no idea what temperature the Duraloops got up to. I'm guessing 100F. This is just an observation and will pay closer attention in July when I do this ritual again.


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## mfm (Dec 25, 2009)

bob_ninja said:


> I tried some of my crappy cells (unknown state of charge) followed by a crappy AAA and 3 Eneloops. All terminations seemed to be fine around 1.42V (open circuit). Also I was impressed that neither unit nor cells heated up much (certainly less than my BC900 towards the end of charge)


If you terminated at 1.42V with eneloops then it's no wonder that the cells didn't heat up much, as they are undercharged. At 1C charge I terminate at 1.47V and then they are just changed to 85% capacity.


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 25, 2009)

mfm said:


> If you terminated at 1.42V with eneloops then it's no wonder that the cells didn't heat up much, as they are undercharged. At 1C charge I terminate at 1.47V and then they are just changed to 85% capacity.


 
I suspect he meant they terminated, and some time later he took them off of float charge and measured 1.42 volts. Thta's been my experience with these chargers, anyway. Otherwise, we now have one claim the charger overcharges, and another that it undercharges!


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## bob_ninja (Dec 25, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> I suspect he meant they terminated, and some time later he took them off of float charge and measured 1.42 volts. Thta's been my experience with these chargers, anyway. Otherwise, we now have one claim the charger overcharges, and another that it undercharges!



I should clarify. As I state I couldn't get the probes to contact cells in the charger so couldn't measure voltage while in charger. I did the nest best thing I could and measured voltage right after removing them from charger. it should be noted that some cells were sitting in the charger for as much as half hour on green leds, so assuming trickle charge.

Therefore I have no means of determining the actual peak voltage


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## bob_ninja (Dec 26, 2009)

This time I removed the cell within 5 min of light turning green a measured 1.432V.
The other 2 cells that turned green earlier measured 1.432V and 1.429V.

So seems this charger terminates well below C9000's 1.47 limit and around 1.5V BC900 seems to terminate.

I should mention these are Sanyo 2500 mAh in a semi-decent state.

I actually prefer premature termination as charging cells up to 80% capacity can prolong lifespan a lot. So this charger will appeal to people looking for a gentle charger that may not charger 100% but still at a reasonable rate without generating too much heat.

The only shortcoming I can see is that the housing doesn't allow much air flow around cells, so they still heat up some, but not as much as BC900. I have to admin Maha C9000 probably strikes the best balance with much more air flow and spacing between cells and a reasonable termination voltage with additional topup charge for 2 hrs.

Again as I said for the price I paid it is still a great charger. Not for those looking to squeeze every last bit of energy into their cells. However undercharge should also be safer, less risk of venting.

Not sure what happened in that example posted earlier?


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 26, 2009)

bob_ninja said:


> Again as I said for the price I paid it is still a great charger. Not for those looking to squeeze every last bit of energy into their cells. However undercharge should also be safer, less risk of venting.
> 
> *Not sure what happened in that example posted earlier*?


 
What happened was "bad science," drawing conclusions from comparisons between apples, oranges and pomegranates. For example, here's *THE TEST *given for the La Crosse:

*



Test #A2: (Complete) 


La Crosse BC-900 Charger w/NEW Durabrid 2000mAh LSD #1 (1948mAh/1.50ICV last C9000 Break-In) 

TOPPED OFF in CEF-23 (Test #1) 
DISCHARGED in C9000 @ 1000mA for 200mAh 
CHARGED in BC-900 @ 1000mA until 'Full': 313mAh / 18 minutes / 57% Overcharge ['Watermark' Primer Charge]


Click to expand...

*So, let's top the cell off in one charger, discharge it in another, then charge it back up in a third. And, this proves exactly _what _specifically about the BC-900?:thinking::shrug:


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## TakeTheActive (Jan 29, 2010)

*Turbo DV8*,

My apologies for the delay in getting to this reply. I *KNOW* that I read your post(s), it was late, and that I intended to reply the next day. Well, you know what they say about age and 'memory'. :sigh:



Turbo DV8 said:


> *As I see it, your 86% "overcharge" claim is based on a cascading series of erroneous assumptions*... ***SNIP***





PeAK said:


> ...*I think the test and resulting numbers do have merit and can be used to gauge the "better chargers"*. Your first point has already been discussed and *it basically boiled down to when the charger "thought" the battery was charged and whether or not it could repeat detecting the same charge point (aka watermark)*...





Turbo DV8 said:


> I'm sorry, did I miss something?...
> 
> ...*All I see in "The Test" is a comparison between apples with oranges*...





Turbo DV8 said:


> ...Otherwise, *we now have one claim the charger overcharges, and another that it undercharges!*





Turbo DV8 said:


> *What happened was "bad science," drawing conclusions from comparisons between apples, oranges and pomegranates...
> 
> ...So, let's top the cell off in one charger, discharge it in another, then charge it back up in a third*. And, this proves exactly _what _specifically about the BC-900?:thinking::shrug:




You misinterpreted the data I presented in *Test for how well batteries suit your charger - Post #10*.
.
In an attempt to clarify things, *PeAK* mis-directed you to the WRONG post: *Test for how well batteries suit your charger - Post #10* (My data) when, IMO, he SHOULD have directed you to: *Test for how well batteries suit your charger - Post #13* (My explanation).
.
If you read (and UNDERSTOOD) my explanation in Post #13, you then should have been able to properly interpret the data I presented in Post #10.
*______________________________*​
To re-iterate from Post #13 (with extra formatting for emphasis):
NOTE: To save time, select what you believe to be a FULLY CHARGED cell. WHERE it was charged does not matter at this point.

DISCHARGE approximately 100mAh from the cell
- EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
- Otherwise, requires a RESISTOR, DMM and STOPWATCH (Instructions TBD)
.
CHARGE the cell until JUST the point of termination *on Charger X*
- 0.5C is recommended on an Adjustable Charge Rate Charger
- Record the Charge Rate on a Fixed Rate Charger
.
DISCHARGE approximately 100mAh from the cell
- EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
- Otherwise, requires a RESISTOR, DMM and STOPWATCH
.
RE-CHARGE the cell until JUST the point of termination on *Charger X*
- 0.5C is recommended on an Adjustable Charge Rate Charger
- Record the Charge Rate on a Fixed Rate Charger
.
NOTE the Elapsed Time in minutes.
- EASY with a MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009
- Otherwise, check your STOPWATCH.
.
CALCULATE the Overcharge.
MH-C9000 or BC-700 / BC-900 / BC-9009:
- (CHARGE IN / 100mAh) - 1 x 100
Fixed Rate Charger:
- (Charge Rate x (Elapsed Time / 60) / 100mAh) - 1 x 100


Note: The "overcharge" is relative to the small amount of charge that was taken out and not relative to total charge of the battery(i.e. capacity). So if I take a cup out of a gallon container but need to put back in two cups, then the overcharge will 1x (i.e. 100% more) the amount I took out.​*______________________________*​
Thus, it DOESN'T MATTER what charger was used to initially get the cell to ~100%. What DOES matter is that the SAME charger is used to recharge it to 100% twice in succession (Steps 2 & 4) with the first time (Step 2) labeled the *['Watermark' Primer Charge]* and the second time (Step 4) used to record the actual over/under charge.

From my point-of-view:
You '_too quickly_' read and then misunderstood the data I presented.
.
When given an (unfortunately) incorrect LINK to an explanation from *PeAK*, instead of taking some initiative and reading the WHOLE thread, you continued on with your rant.
.
You became WAY too sarcastic, continuing to attack my 'Experiment' over and over (Posts #39, 41, 48) even without any replies from me. 
.
Since you DID comment about *"bad science," drawing conclusions from comparisons between apples, oranges and pomegranates...*, it appears that you DID indeed read my explanation and STILL you continued on.
.
I'm surprised that no one except *PeAK* stepped in to correct you. To me, that shows either a lack of INTEREST in member's 'Experiments' or a lack of UNDERSTANDING. 

If you're not interested in discussing this topic, or any other topic that I happen to reply to, with logic and civility, please ignore the thread and stop personally attacking me. I did not attack you. I presented a unique topic that interests me and hopefully some other members. If there's something incorrect with the material, by all means, post the corrections. But don't post just to tease / ridicule / bait / attack. 

Thank you.


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## MarioJP (Jan 29, 2010)

I remember this charger which has been retired Think I gave it away don't recall. The USB port circuit fried. Blue led for usb light turns on but glows dim but the charger itself stills works. Its just no longer a mobile usb charger lol.

retired this charger due to the power transformer gets the cells quite hot.


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## Turbo DV8 (Jan 29, 2010)

TakeTheActive said:


> I'm surprised that no one except *PeAK* stepped in to correct you. To me, that shows either a lack of INTEREST in member's 'Experiments' or a lack of UNDERSTANDING.


 
I can think of one other possibility. But basically, if I understand correctly from your comment above, if someone disagrees with you, it is simply because they don't understand you. Roger that.



TakeTheActive said:


> *Turbo DV8*,
> 
> If you're not interested in discussing this topic... please ignore the thread and stop personally attacking me. If there's something incorrect with the material, by all means, post the corrections. But don't post just to tease / ridicule / bait / attack.


 
I posted disagreement over your methods. Sorry if you take that personally. Carry on...


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## apvm (Feb 9, 2012)

Just bought this at Best Buy Canada $19.99 plus tax. Going to use it for my GP RECYKO and Vivitar 2100 since I am not sure my old Vanson V1000 is any good.


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