# The Infamous XX-Ray: 5x neutral white MC-E (pic heavy)



## Techjunkie (May 13, 2009)

Introducing... The XX-Ray

So-named for its 20 LED emitter dies (XX = Roman numeral twenty)

*----====::::EDIT #3::::====---- (June 27, 2009)*

The replacement Sharks from Wayne came in today (Thanks, Wayne!). These make Sharks 7, 8 & 9 to enter this torch.
Well, they say the third time's a charm (knock wood), and now finally, three matched, tested blue sharks running in parallel are running this torch at just the right current.












*---===:::Edit of the Edit:::===--- *(June 5, 2009)
The increased current as measured below was due to one of the sharks malfunctioning. Tested alone, it was pushing 1.5A instead of 1A. I thought it would continue to only push that much more and was expecing 3.5A total. The total 4.89A current was measured after it and the other two were permanently affixed to the sinks with AAA. Unfortunately, after an "extended" run of about three minutes constant, the one bad shark took the other two down with it and all three fried. Lesson learned: don't fully assemble if ANYTHING is out of spec.

The XX-Ray is "in the shop" again, awaiting replacement sharks and now I also have to replace one of the MC-E emitters as I damaged the dome while unassembling/reassembling to get to the 2nd course of toasted shark. The replacement will be a 4A tint - I couldn't find any more 4B. 

-=:Edit:=-
I replaced the sharks I torched by reversing polarity. For reasons unbeknown to me, they crank out more than 3A combined. I'm not complaining though, 'cause the LEDs are liking the extra juice. Here'sa quick photo insert and then some new beamshot photos down around post #20.


(Photos removed, see update above)


-=:End Edit:=-

*---===:::End Edit of the Edit:::===---*

*----====::::END EDIT #3::::====----*



Specs:

5 x CREE MC-E neutral white 4B tint emitters
Solid Aluminum reflector and base (both modifid for fit and focus)
Silver Mag 2.25D Dual and Quad bored, cut and rethreaded, head modded inside for fit
Carrier-less battery design will accommodate 4 IMR or LiFePO4 18650 batteries or a 12AA NiMH pack
3 Blue Shark drivers (remora removed from original design)
Emitters wired 5s4p with stranded 20ga copper
Estimated > 3000 Lumens of neutral white LED light!
Currently test running in direct drive mode until Remora issue is decided. (Measured only 840mA from Blue Shark with Remora on High vs. 970mA without Remora). Once that's settled, the 3 Blue Sharks will be mounted on Led Zep shark sinks in the neck. Head assembly to tri-sharks and tri-sharks to Mag switch might remain fitted with detachable 30A connectors for maintenance or future modification, provided there's room after the Sharks are installed.

This one's a bit of a sleeper, considering the stock Mag head and short body. It started out on a budget too, the only exravagence being the modded body in favor of a 4C or 3D, until the need for 3 sharks became apparent.

After modding the distance between the base end the reflector bottom, focus gives a much tighter hotspot than the 20mm narrow boom reflcetors I've used on one of my 3xMC-E torches. There is a bit of a small donut in the hotspot, thanks to the smooth reflectors, but the rotation of each emitter purposely varies to avoid lining them up and eliminate plus sign in beam pattern.

Some pics:































I got tired of searching for a 2x2x18650 battery carrier and building my own with only 16mm to spare was a daunting task, so I took an old shortcut. The nylon washer insert takes advantage of the fact that the milled out battery channel is conductive by mating the negative battery termianal to the channel (and the positive terminal to the spring. At the tailcap, another custom fit washer is used to make a contact board to bridge the two stacks of batteries. Yet another insulates it from the low pressure modded tail spring. No electrical contact is made to the spring when running 4 x 18650 in series this way. The Sharks which have to push 18V @ 3A to the emitters can accept either 3.7V IMR batteries or 3.0-3.2V LiFePO4 batteries. Take the washers out and there's just enough room for a 4x3 12AA Eneloop pack (if I could ever find one).
















As it will be a while before the sharks are added, I've added some preliminary beam shots in post #17, with the XX-Ray underdriven at ~1.6A or about half power. (Or just checkout the slideshow on photobucket.)


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## toby_pra (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

That looks really awesome...but we need beamshots!!!  :twothumbs


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## Nos (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

woooooow, a dream comes true


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## mash.m (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

hi,

really nice build. i also test a mc-e setup with those dx reflectors, but it produce a big donut hole or you have a bad efficiency when you move the emitters a little outside the focus point. also the thermal management of this very thin alu heatsink is miserable so a build my own heatsink that will transfer the massive heat wall direktly to the mag body and head:





and here is the thread to this flashlight:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/225234

creative battery holder, i will take this idea in back of my mind for my future mods :twothumbs

markus


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## Rat6P (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

wow

I want one!


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## Zeruel (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

Holy C#@*, 5 MC-Es. Outdoor beam shots please.


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## Techjunkie (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*



mash.m said:


> hi,
> 
> really nice build. i also test a mc-e setup with those dx reflectors, but it produce a big donut hole or you have a bad efficiency when you move the emitters a little outside the focus point. also the thermal management of this very thin alu heatsink is miserable so a build my own heatsink that will transfer the massive heat wall direktly to the mag body and head:
> 
> markus


 
Markus,

The trick to both issues, I've found, is trimming just the right amount in just the right places. The base of the MC-E is thicker than that of an XR-E, but less than an XR-E mounted on a PCB. Mount the MC-E on a MCPCB, and you've to got to create space. Mount the MC-E bare and you've got to decrease space. In this case I mounted the emitters directly to the base with Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive after I filed down the wall at the edge of the base ever so slightly to close the gap between base and reflector bottom. I had considered replacing the center neutral white MC-E with a warm white XR-E to ensure no artifacts in the hotspot, but didn't feel it was necessary after testing focus of the MC-Es mounted this way. The edge wall of the base still mates entirely to the outer diameter of the heavy AL reflector for a very strong thermal coupling to the base for excellent heatskinking (not to mention the two screws that hold them together).

The fact that the reflector and base module assembled are way too tall to fit in the Mag head made an opportunity for even better thermal coupling. I beveled the inside edge of the Mag head and trimme the threads off of the top of the reflector to make those parts mate over more surface area. I also beveled the outside of the base and the inside bottom of the Mag head (at the top of the threaded socket for the neck) so the base and head would mate more directly as well, and also allow the base to sit low enough in the head for everything to fit. Add to that the fact that the narrow bottom stem of the base also mates directly to the neck of the Mag body when the head is fully seated and I've got direct flush contact between the base and reflector, base and head, base and neck, reflector and head and to top things off just for good measure, what little cavity was left between the parts within the head and the head interior has been filled in with crushed Aluminum foil. All thermal contact points get a thin coat of Arctic Silver thermal grease before mating. To put it plainly, heat sinking is not a problem. I ran the 5 emitters on the IMR batteries at 16.9V fresh off the charger (and these things don't sag) for ~15 minutes straight last night. The head almost instantly became warm, but never got hot. Thermal conductivity is excellent and there's significant mass to distribute the heat.

Once I add the shark-sinked sharks, thermal output will increase, both from the emitters being driven harder (~18V out) and from the Sharks themselves, but from my test runs last night, there's still plenty of headroom for additional heat. It was concerns about heat and runtime that motivated me to purchase the Remora in the first place but at this point, I'm leaning heavily toward not including it.


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## wquiles (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

Very nice build dude!

Will


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## StarHalo (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

+1 for beamshots..

And if it had 30 emitters, would it then be the Triple-X Ray?


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## supasizefries (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

Wow, you completed THE build that was just a pipe dream to me when I saw that reflector/base on DX. :thumbsup: That is the one that is on DX right? Correct me if I'm wrong. I think there was a comment about p7's being to big to fit in that reflector setup. That made me think about using MC-E's. You've also solved the power source issue that didn't exist till now. This is really an inspiring build. I hope to complete something like your build someday. This thing must be crazy bright. Awesome build!


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## StefanFS (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

Wonderful mod!


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## mash.m (May 13, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*



Techjunkie said:


> Markus,
> The fact that the reflector and base module assembled are way too tall to fit in the Mag head made an opportunity for even better thermal coupling. I beveled the inside edge of the Mag head and trimme the threads off of the top of the reflector to make those parts mate over more surface area. I also beveled the outside of the base and the inside bottom of the Mag head (at the top of the threaded socket for the neck) so the base and head would mate more directly as well, and also allow the base to sit low enough in the head for everything to fit. Add to that the fact that the narrow bottom stem of the base also mates directly to the neck of the Mag body when the head is fully seated and I've got direct flush contact between the base and reflector, base and head, base and neck, reflector and head and to top things off just for good measure, what little cavity was left between the parts within the head and the head interior has been filled in with crushed Aluminum foil. All thermal contact points get a thin coat of Arctic Silver thermal grease before mating. To put it plainly, heat sinking is not a problem. I ran the 5 emitters on the IMR batteries at 16.9V fresh off the charger (and these things don't sag) for ~15 minutes straight last night. The head almost instantly became warm, but never got hot. Thermal conductivity is excellent and there's significant mass to distribute the heat.




mhh, i still can´t belive this. 5 x mc-e each with 10 watt = 50 watt and the head get only warm after 15 minutes ? not possible - imho.
all my powermag´s with a comparable setup get warm after 5 minutes and hot after 10 minutes. these (and your´s) high power flashlights are like a formula 1 car. high output but only for short time.
i also did some tests with this dx reflector, 3 mc-e´s and two r2. cut down the mag head and the heatsink with my lathe so it fit perfect into the mag head. filled up the inside with liquid aluminum and much copper powder for best heat conductiona and also this setup get very warm. 
i also tryed the mc-e without a pcb, but i never was happy with the beam. still think that you had more andurance to find the perfect setup :goodjob:

markus


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## Techjunkie (May 15, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*



supasizefries said:


> Wow, you completed THE build that was just a pipe dream to me when I saw that reflector/base on DX. :thumbsup: That is the one that is on DX right? Correct me if I'm wrong. I think there was a comment about p7's being to big to fit in that reflector setup. That made me think about using MC-E's. You've also solved the power source issue that didn't exist till now. This is really an inspiring build. I hope to complete something like your build someday. This thing must be crazy bright. Awesome build!


 
Thanks. Yes, that's the one from DX. Amazing how a $7 part turns into a multi-hundred dollar project. If DX had never come out with that (back in December), I never would have dreamt this up.



mash.m said:


> mhh, i still can´t belive this. 5 x mc-e each with 10 watt = 50 watt and the head get only warm after 15 minutes ? not possible - imho.
> all my powermag´s with a comparable setup get warm after 5 minutes and hot after 10 minutes. these (and your´s) high power flashlights are like a formula 1 car. high output but only for short time.
> markus


 
Admittedly, 5 MC-Es in direct drive off of 4 batteries only pulls half the 50W total (I measured draw at ~1.55A). So at this point, I'm only cranking out half the heat (and maybe 2/3 the light). I made one more heat-sinking modification today, I applied AAA to the emitter wires and solder joints to both improve heatsinking, protect from shorts, and immobilize the wires.

Taking heat into consideration, I'm reconsidering the Remora board for three reasons. For one thing, it will keep heat under control while on a very bright medium. For another, the difference between the 2.9A single mode or the 2.5A Remora hi-mode would likely not be detectable in terms of brightness but probably will be in terms of heat. Finally, when low mode actually looks different than medium mode, then I'll know it's time to recharge the batteries.



StarHalo said:


> +1 for beamshots..
> 
> And if it had 30 emitters, would it then be the Triple-X Ray?


 
Don't give me any ideas . I'd need a Collossus and a private investor.

---------

Now for some bad news. Today while battling a cold and rather distracted by constant interruptions, I made the worst possible newbie error...

I had individually tested and installed each of the three sharks after wiring them and then again after mounting them to the shark sinks. After installing the sinks into the mag tube, I opted to temporarily use some power connectors instead of directly soldering all the wires together, just to allow me to measure current draw to the sharks and current output to the LEDs using my multi-meter.

Now for the blunder - I reversed the polarity on the shark input connector and didn't discover it until it was too late. In a single half press of the mag switch, all three blue sharks fried! (No reverse polarity protection on these, unfortunately.)

It may be some time before I can afford to replace the three sharks and try again. (They're the most expensive part of this project, after all.)

For the time being, I can use the torch in DD mode. Pulling less than 1.6A from 1600mAH batteries, I've got a full hour of runtime, and it's still as bright as my 3 x cool white MC-E torches pushed to the max, but it will be some time before I ever see what this XX-Ray can really do on high. 

I was going to wait until the sharks were operational to take beam shots, but as that will likely be a long time, I'll try to grab some with the torch as-is this weekend.


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## mash.m (May 15, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*

hi,

why did you not make your own regulator? it is very easy if you can solder (i think you can ) and it is very cheap - <10$ ?

here is the shematic for the regulator that i use:
http://www.atx-netzteil.de/pwm_mit_ne555.htm#Schaltung 2

it is capable of very high current with low heat. problem ist that you must put out the mag switch and take a pot with switch for on/off and regulate. but the benefit is that you can dimm from near 0 to full power steppless 

markus


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## BillyNoMates (May 15, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*



mash.m said:


> hi,
> 
> why did you not make your own regulator? it is very easy if you can solder (i think you can ) and it is very cheap - <10$ ?
> 
> ...



Neat circuit, but strictly speeaking that's just a PWM controller allowing you to vary the average power to the LED, not strictly a regulator. The current in the LED is controlled by the resistors, so the current will vary with battery voltage for a fixed PWM setting (a regulator would attempt to maintain constant drive independent of battery voltage). The 5s4p configuration mentioned in the first post requires the LED voltage is greater than the (nominal) battery voltage, so that requires a boost converter (which the suggested circuit can not do).

Generally, I would be wary of simply paralleling the driver circuit. If you want all drivers to give the max current, they will all need to have matched sense pins. Const current drivers usually measure the voltage across a low valued resistor (resistor is usually between the -ve pin of the LED and -ve supply) and vary the drive to keep this constant. The voltage set point on this sense port depends on the driver can be as low as 0.15V for some or as high as 1.25 for others. Either way connenting the sense pin across multiple drivers forces the sense voltage to be the same for all. Now if the drivers are slightly mismatched, the one driver may be trying to regulate to, say 0.16V and another will be trying to regulate to, say, 0.15V, then the latter will think the drive level is too high and it will attempt to switch off. Only if the devices are well matched will you get full output from all drivers.

I would have gone for either 4 drivers with 4x 5s1p strings or two drivers with 2x 5s2p strings.


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## Techjunkie (May 15, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*



BillyNoMates said:


> Only if the devices are well matched will you get full output from all drivers.
> 
> I would have gone for either 4 drivers with 4x 5s1p strings or two drivers with 2x 5s2p strings.


 
That's good advice. Wiring would have been much more difficult in either configuration, but with thinner guage wire, I could have managed.

With 4 sharks (and no pots), I'd have a whole amp going through each emitter, instead of 700mA. While I've done that with a single MC-E (and 2 2A drivers) and been able to manage the heat, I don't think I could say the same for 5 of them at once. I suppose I could have ordered 4 with the pots still installed and then set each string by hand, but cramming all 4 into the Mag D tube on 4 shark sinks would have been very tight.

With 2 sharks, the torch would be underdriven. In the end, I think 3 was the closest to making mathmatical sense.

Led Zep has done this on a lot of his Moby **** builds in the past, so I've tried to reproduce his "proven" methods. Time will tell how well the sharks hold up. I'm hoping that being the (expensive) quality product that they are, that they're well matched.

Maybe by the time I'm financially ready for replacement Sharks, there will be a better 'Super Shark' solution, or a 60W cchipo that will fit in the Mag D neck.


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## Techjunkie (May 18, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy) - Beamshots added*

Here are some preliminary beamshots with the Shark-less XX-Ray underdriven at ~1.6A (will be 3A when sharks have been replaced).

Rather than clicking on each photo below, checkout the slideshow



 


The torch specs from left to right and in order of appearance are (ignore the salt & pepper shaker lanterns):
1. MC-E cool white 40mm OP reflector DD 3x NiMH C cell
2. Lowe's Task Force 2C (35mm collimator) w/ CREE Q5 WC @ 1400mA
3. MC-E cool white w/ Fraen 34mm reflector
4. MC-E neutral white w/ Fraen 34mm reflector
5. 3x MC-E cool white with 3x 20mm Ledil Boom spot reflectors
6. 3x MC-E cool white with Chinese OP tri-flector
7. The XX-Ray: 5x MC-E neutral white with Chinese SMO penta-flector (underdriven w/o sharks)

All shots taken at ISO 200, F/4.0, 1/4 sec, WB 6000K

As evidenced by the outdoor floodlight shot, this fixed ISO setting and shutter speed make the shot appear much darker than perceived by the human eye. I should have opted for a higher ISO or slowe shutter.

Distance to tool shed from torch is exactly 40 ft. (camera to shed is 54 ft.)



 


control, lights off control, floodlights on

1. 

 2. 



3. 

 4. 



5. 

 6. 



7.


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## toby_pra (May 19, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy) - Beamshots added*

Very cool beamshots! :twothumbs


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## Techjunkie (May 19, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy) - Beamshots added*

Some long exposure beam shots, all taken with the same settings.

From left to right:

1. TrustFire SSC-P7 HA-III 2x18650 (same torch as in my avatar) running on 2x18650 LiFePO4
2. MC-E Neutral White, 52mm OP reflector, 4 Amp driver in Mag 2C with 2x18650 LiFePO4
3. The XX-Ray under-driven

1.

 2.

 3.


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## Techjunkie (May 23, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

Here are a few new pics now that the sharks are installed. I've only compared this 5x MC-E neutral white torch to my 3x MC-E cool white torch, which was formerly my brightest LED. This one is now clearly brighter and a much nicer color too 

Control 




3x cool white 5x neutral white


 




 




 




 


http://s255.photobucket.com/albums/...completion/?action=view&current=65xMC-ENW.jpg 
This stressful, nerve racking, expensive, time draining, emotionally draining experience has been my last big project. Now that I have this trophy to keep, I think I'm done with big complex custom jobs like this one, at least for a very, very long time anyway.

Thank you all you enablers. See you in the dark.


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## wquiles (May 23, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

Awesome job 

Will


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## supasizefries (Jun 2, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

Where did you buy your MC-E's from?


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## Techjunkie (Jun 3, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*



supasizefries said:


> Where did you buy your MC-E's from?


 
LED lighting supply. $100 minimum order. Tell Amy that John from Deer Park sent you.


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## wquiles (Jun 3, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

I just heard back from Amy:

cool white price = $13.61

warm white price = $17.25

Min order of $100.

Will


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## supasizefries (Jun 3, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

Thanks for the info guys. Is there a specific MCE tint bin that closely matches a SSC P7 SWO tint bin?


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## Techjunkie (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

That particular vendor only ever seems to have two broken reels at any one time, so with them, your choice is currently a cool white WC tint K-bin or a neutral white 4A tint J-bin.

In the cool whites, I've use WC tint and WG tint. The WG varied more and I received a few WG from DX that were closer to pink and closer to green than pure white. The WC tint are the whitest I've seen. I think the P7 that I got from DX/KD, which I think were SWO, might be a slight bit more toward blue than the WC tint CREE.


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## supasizefries (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

Hmmm, sounds like I might go with the WC tint then. I'm contemplating attempting a build like yours...and after that call it a day in terms of "big" homemade lights for awhile. This hobby is expensive! I was gonna check out taskled to check out my driver options but the website seems to be down. Do you think regular AW 18650 li-ion cells are up to the task of powering up this light? As always, thanks for the info!


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## Techjunkie (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

With regular AW 18650 li-ion cells, you can pretty much go 1-for-1, one cell per (4P) MC-E and leave out the expensive and delicate drivers. On four cells in series, with four MC-Es wired as 4s4p, you'll probably get an hour of (gradually dimming) runtime and the most bang for your buck. I wish I had done that with this build and avoided the hassle. Constant regulated output is nice, but IMO not worth the trouble, espeically without low-V cutoff. Another option is 6 cells and a buck driver or PWM current regulator. If I could have fit 6 18500s into this torch, I would have gone that route with a single 3A buck regulator. 



supasizefries said:


> Hmmm, sounds like I might go with the WC tint then. I'm contemplating attempting a build like yours...and after that call it a day in terms of "big" homemade lights for awhile. This hobby is expensive! I was gonna check out taskled to check out my driver options but the website seems to be down. Do you think regular AW 18650 li-ion cells are up to the task of powering up this light? As always, thanks for the info!


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## 2xTrinity (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*



Techjunkie said:


> With regular AW 18650 li-ion cells, you can pretty much go 1-for-1, one cell per (4P) MC-E and leave out the expensive and delicate drivers. On four cells in series, with four MC-Es wired as 4s4p, you'll probably get an hour of (gradually dimming) runtime and the most bang for your buck. I wish I had done that with this build and avoided the hassle. Constant regulated output is nice, but IMO not worth the trouble, espeically without low-V cutoff. Another option is 6 cells and a buck driver or PWM current regulator. If I could have fit 6 18500s into this torch, I would have gone that route with a single 3A buck regulator.


I did this a while back with a 3 MC-E build, though in that case I did 2s 6p off of two LiIon C-Cells. Good for more like 45 minutes of gradual dimming, but simple and effective. Also a lot of lumens for "just" a 2C mag as well -- I was driving the cells as hard as they are supposed to go. I suppose with the LiMn cells floating out here nowadays I might go back and make one with 5 just to so I have the 2C mag with the most lumens again :naughty:

Also, if you wire 4 MCEs in 4series-4parallel, my recommendation is this:

Rather than wire all the dice on a single LED in series with one another, make each string of 4 dice in series consist of ONE die from EACH MC-E package. This will ensure that the dice are more closely "balanced" when running in direct drive. Because I have found that the dice within a particular MC-Es usually pretty closely matched, the dice from one MC-E to another might not be. By using an equal amount of dice from each package, you can ensure that each string will have closer to the same Vf.

You are also more protected against thermal runaway if one MC-E heats up more than another. If you had wired your MC-Es separately and one heated up more than the oters, its Vf would go down and it would "hog" more of the current. However, if EVERY parallel string in your setup is connected to an LED that becomes heated, then the Vf of ALL the strings should drop by the same amount, and current division shouldn't change.


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## Mike Painter (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: Introducing... The XX-Ray (pic heavy)*



Techjunkie said:


> Now for the blunder - I reversed the polarity on the shark input connector and didn't discover it until it was too late.



I found it much easier to just put the 3AA to D battery holders in upside down....
They are nicely labeled on the side with the orientation of the actual battery and I was using those as a guide. Dumb Mikey, dumb, dumb. I wish I knew how many times I put them in right out of blind luck.


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## Techjunkie (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*



2xTrinity said:


> I did this a while back with a 3 MC-E build, though in that case I did 2s 6p off of two LiIon C-Cells. Good for more like 45 minutes of gradual dimming, but simple and effective. Also a lot of lumens for "just" a 2C mag as well


 
Trinity, it looks like we think alike. Check out the two 3xMC-E torches in my MC-E madness links in my signature.









Both Mag 2Cs, both wired as 2s6p and both powered by two cells. In my case, the LiMn cells were too strong fully charged and would turn the LEDs blue almost instantly. I had to add .25 ohm resistance to balance things out.

On the subject of white balance, I checked out the link in your signature. It looks like your images aren't hosted any longer, that's a shame. (Is the dude in those other pics really that tall, or is the sink really that low?)

Also on the subject of white balance, am I alone in noticing that most of the time, sometimes more noticibly than others, each of my eyes has a different white balance? I find that frequently, colors look warmer in my left eye and cooler in my right. Am I a freak? Did I wear 3D glasses just a little too long/often during my developmental years? Just curious to know if anyone else has noticed the same thing.


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## supasizefries (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

Since the Taskled site is back up I was researching some possible drivers to drive 5 MC-E's. From my limited understanding and initial reading, I'm thinking either the hipCC or hipFlex are possible candidates for a build like yours? What do you think?


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## wquiles (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

Both the hipCC and hipFlex can drive several MC-E's, but only in a buck configuration - the battery voltage has to be higher than the combined sum of the vf's of the LED's (assuming that you have the LED's in series). The hipCC is simpler - just ON or OFF, while the hipFlex (when used with an external normally open switch) can give you various levels.

At any rate, you can output up to 2.8Amps, so if you have them in series, all of the MC-E's would get 2.8Amps. If you have them in parallel, the 2.8Amps would be divided "fairly" equally between them.

The one gotcha to what out for with a buck driver is the max voltage. Your "fully" charged batteries can't exceed that, and it would be even better if the fully charged voltage was somewhat lower than the max. voltage rating on the hipCC or hipFlex (24-25 volts max).

Will


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## supasizefries (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

Hi Will, thanks for the information. What you said about the MAX voltage was a big concern for me. Doing rough theoretical calculations, 6 li-ion 18650 ( lets say 4.2V each) fully charged will yield 25.2 V which is over the input voltage of the hip drivers. If I were to use AW protected 18650 li-ion cells, will there be any sag which would put the V input under the max recommended voltage? With the hipFlex, could I just "tap" the stock mag switch to cycle through levels or will I encounter switch "bounce" which I've read in some thread.


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## wquiles (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*



supasizefries said:


> Hi Will, thanks for the information. What you said about the MAX voltage was a big concern for me. Doing rough theoretical calculations, 6 li-ion 18650 ( lets say 4.2V each) fully charged will yield 25.2 V which is over the input voltage of the hip drivers. If I were to use AW protected 18650 li-ion cells, will there be any sag which would put the V input under the max recommended voltage? With the hipFlex, could I just "tap" the stock mag switch to cycle through levels or will I encounter switch "bounce" which I've read in some thread.



Myself and others can give you educated responses, but the best answer you can possibly get is from George himself. Only he can tell you "for sure" if this combination would be safe. I heard recently he was on vacation, but send him an email and ask him what he recommends


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## Techjunkie (Jun 5, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

I can't speak specifically for the hipCC, but I did ask Wayne about the Shark-buck 3A which has a similar feature set (but no low V cutoff) and the same max input V, and he said that 6 li-ion under load would probably sag to within tolerable limits.

I'm considering abandoning the 3 sharks in favor of a 65mm extension, two more 18650 batteries and a hipCC or sharkbuck 3A. I'm also considering trying to use a hotplate to unmount a 4B tint emitter that I mounted on a star board and installed in another torch, just to keep all five in this torch the same. I'm my own worst enemy sometimes.


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## Techjunkie (Jun 15, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*

I replaced the 4B that I damaged during reassembly with a 4A and tested everything on direct drive. Luckily, you (or at least I) can't tell the tint difference, which is surprising because another 4A that I chose not to use looks entirely different - more red in it.

That'll keep me from killing a working torch to harvest the 4A in it, and as for the other idea that I had - that wont do. You can't create an extension piece and dual bore it - the bore cuts through the threads at the non-cap end making it a too delicate no-go.

Not inclined to move to a longer host or totally different battery configuration, I'm awaiting the replacement sharks from Wayne to finally get this one finished.

(I toyed with the idea of a 2p6s 14500 LiFePO4 battery configuration for direct drive, but couldn't find them pre-tabbed. I recall my first incan mod with loose NiMH AAs in the same config and could never be sure that all the batteries were always making contact.)


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## Techjunkie (Jun 28, 2009)

Well, the replacement Sharks from Wayne came in today. That makes blue Sharks 7, 8 & 9 to enter this torch. (First set was my foul-up reversing polarity, second set self-destructed from one being defective). Many thanks to Wayne for replacing them.

Wired, tested, AAA epoxied to the sinks and installed the sharks. The flashaholics version of a marathon labor is over. Honestly, I think I'd rather give birth. It's over quicker and with less pain (ladies, I await the onslaught), and the finished product is so much more rewarding.

Now, finally, after a battery carrier drought, cooked sharks, and a crushed emitter dome, this sure to be shelf queen is finally done (knock wood). 

Output current to the emitter string measures 2.73A on DMM (see pic added to post #1). A little less than the 2.9A I expected, but visually, still brighter than the 3x cool white MC-E torch, and much easier on the emitters heat-wise and the batteries. (I measured just over 3A draw on the battery pack which had already been used a little to direct drive the torch without sharks.)

All together, it probably cost me as much in parts as it might have if I just contracted someone else to build it, but I had fun, right? (I'm not so sure). I am sure that I have a trophy to be proud of though.

I'm also sure that I'll never use parallel drivers again, what a nightmare. If I had to do it again, I'd use four sharks and four strings of five diodes. The wiring would have been a small challenge compared to scraping off shark sinks and reinstalling three sharks, twice.

Speaking of doing it again, I scored a deal on some 26650 Sony VT batteries which of course got me thinking about what I could use them in . I've already bored out a few 3C Mags and ordered some more of these 5x CREE reflectors from DX. In my mind right now is a 10p2s direct drive version of the XX-Ray that should have about 20-25 minutes of runtime. Not sure what I'll do just yet. I'm hoping those reflectors take their time arriving again. It's time to put down the soldering iron for a while and enjoy the summer.


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## supasizefries (Jul 1, 2009)

Glad to here that you have it all sorted it out. I have a tri-p7 mag and I always wonder how much brighter your light is. I really want to take a crack at building your light but I'm currently saving for a wedding/house so I may never be able to get to build it. :mecry: If you were to ever build and sell another regulated version in the future, I'd be interested in possibly buying it. Enjoy your solder free summer.


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## TheInvader (Aug 25, 2009)

Sorry to bring up a fairly old thread, but Christ Almighty! That is one BRIGHT *** torch you have there. Put a red colored cone on the end of that and you'll be Darth Vader visible from Mars!

It's also floodier than I would have imagined a MCE torch to be.


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## Techjunkie (Aug 25, 2009)

Thanks. After all the trouble, I built another one, unregulated powered by 16 Duraloop AAs. (Check the LED USL in my signature) The floody beam is because of the tiny reflector diameter(s). It throws pretty well by brute force and there's definitely a hotspot, but it's certainly not designed to optimize throw. 

A few more torches completed since this one (including the LED USL) and one other still in the works and I think I've finally exhausted my fascination with MC-Es.

In the power-throw LED arena, I'm keeping my eye on the SST-90 LED, but I'm waiting to see how others fair with it first. (I've blown enough dough experimenting with MC-Es. This time I'll let others do the pioneering and go with a proven mehtod if I can stand to wait long enough.)


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## jar3ds (Aug 26, 2009)

poor techjunkie... i was following you over at the shark thread.. sucks man.. don't blame you going the cheap route.... i'm curious though...

why not just go w/ the hipflex w/ the 16 AA pack? regulate 5 of either p7 or mc-e(4s)'s... @ 2.8A! :rock:


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## jar3ds (Aug 26, 2009)

*Re: The XX-Ray Completed! 5x MC-E neutral white (pic heavy) beamshots!*



supasizefries said:


> Hi Will, thanks for the information. What you said about the MAX voltage was a big concern for me. Doing rough theoretical calculations, 6 li-ion 18650 ( lets say 4.2V each) fully charged will yield 25.2 V which is over the input voltage of the hip drivers. If I were to use AW protected 18650 li-ion cells, will there be any sag which would put the V input under the max recommended voltage? With the hipFlex, could I just "tap" the stock mag switch to cycle through levels or will I encounter switch "bounce" which I've read in some thread.



i've asked george about this twice, and he's pretty firm that 25.v (6SLiON) is too much.... he's basically said the only way to help the issue is to use few schottky diodes to bring the Vin down a bit... but doing so will pretty much make the voltage sensing abilities of the hipFlex mute...

like everything... its all a compromise


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## Techjunkie (Aug 26, 2009)

jar3ds said:


> poor techjunkie... i was following you over at the shark thread.. sucks man.. don't blame you going the cheap route.... i'm curious though...
> 
> why not just go w/ the hipflex w/ the 16 AA pack? regulate 5 of either p7 or mc-e(4s)'s... @ 2.8A! :rock:


 
My XX-Ray has regulated output but I seldom use it for fear of damaging it. I built the other torch so I can have a beater with the same output. It's a little heavier and a little longer, but makes up for that with more runtime that's completely carefree. Adding a PCB like the hipflex (or in this case the hipcc) for regulation might have been a consideration if I were using 20AAs instead of 16, or 4 MC-E instead of 5, but then I'd worry about abusing the driver. 16AAs are a near perfect match for the 5 MC-E directly driven. I condition the Duraloops a little to be on the safe side but it might not even be necessary. If I did add a hipcc, it would only regulate for <50% of the charge anyway and then drop out of regulation when Vbatt drops, which lacks appeal to me.

Both of my 5x MC-E torches were based on hosts and batteries I already had and what drivers were available when I began. It's a shame that I had so much trouble with multiple parallel sharks. They made it possible to build a shorter torch using the 4 18650 batteries that I had but clearly weren't worth the trouble. The hipcc would have been a nice fit with a slightly longer torch (~2.5D) and 6 LiMn 18500 charged to 4.1v each. If I were to do it all over again from scratch, that's exactly the way I'd go. (I like the hipcc's low battery warning feature which the 3A sharkbuck lacks.) Six 18500 and one HipCC are about the same cost as 3 blue sharks and 3 sharksinks so I think that I might have ordered the original cut and rethreaded host from Jesus before either the hipCC or the IMR 18500 were available.


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