# Introducing: Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module - updated!



## wquiles (Jan 7, 2007)

Somebody here in the forums said it could not be done. That it was impossible to create because the Cree XR-E die was too big. Etc. Etc.. There is nothing more exciting than trying out something that is supposed not to be possible  

Edit: Here is the rest of the photos. I am not done adjusting the LED for optimum throw, but I am getting closer 

As somebody below pointed out, I had to make a turbo module from scratch. I was able to make all operations from one side, except making the LED pedestal "flat":
































I had to go back and make things "flat" :naughty: 











From left to right (EDIT: To clarify, I only made the last two on the right):
5W LED Luxeon Turbo Module, not yet used 5W LED Lusexon Turbo Module, First prototype of new Luxeon Turbo Module (a tad long so that I can play with it), even longer prototype of the Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module:






Of course the electronics cavity was designed around the converters from the Shoppe and the FluPIC:






The "key" to make this work is to file the Cree XR-E die while preserving enough to make the electrical connections:






Did I mentioned that making those connections was hard?






Here I am all done and testing it with just 150mA or so, outside the KT4 and inside the KT4:











I then used a Shoope Downboy 750 to complete the light, along with the outer spring from a blown P60 bulb and an inner spring from "something" in my workshop that happen to fit OK 












Here are the beamshots. Please note that I am not yet done focusing the Cree yet. I made the post longer so that I can use shims to get it to the "sweet" spot, but that will take some additional time :naughty: 

First is the Cree XR-E at 750mA, at 2 seconds exposure:





Then the 5W Luxeon, at about 700mA, at 2 seconds exposure. 






Same as above, but at 1 second exposure. First is the Cree XR-E then the 5W Luxeon:











Note on these shots above that the Cree has brighter sidebeam but that the 5W has a more intense hotspot. As I said above, I still need to play with the Cree to see what is the best I can achieve.

I then took some outdoor shots. In these it is easier to see the brighter sidebeam on the Cree.

First the Cree:





then the 5W Luxeon:






I will play some more this week to further focus the Cree to see what is the best it can be in this reflector 

Will


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## ianb (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module*

A cree in a turbo head, awesome!

I have been waiting for a throw application for the cree's

I look forward to the results  

Ian


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module*

I like.

- Chris


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## Chronos (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module*

Where do I send the Paypal funds?


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## LED Zeppelin (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module*

Looking forward to seeing your results Will.

Looks like you turned your own tower module as well, nice work!


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## wquiles (Jan 7, 2007)

I just posted my initial results. So far I have more sidebeam than on the 5W Luxeon, but I have not spent much time yet trying to shim the Cree XR-E to see what it can do. I hope to have some more time this week to play with it and take additional beamshots :naughty: 

Will


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## cmacclel (Jan 7, 2007)

Funny.......a forum member said it could'nt be done  I suppose your referring to me 

Nice work 

Anything can be done but some things are easier than others  How did you file down the emmitter?

Mac


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## wquiles (Jan 7, 2007)

cmacclel said:


> Funny.......a forum member said it could'nt be done  I suppose your referring to me
> 
> Nice work
> 
> ...


Thanks Mac 

It could have been you - but I don't remember who it was. Whomever said it, he was right about not fitting "as is". Getting this to fit was definitely not easy to do (specially the soldering!), and I am not done adjusting it yet  

I used a small diamond file and lots of measuring/cutting, measuring/cutting, etc., until it fit inside the reflector in the KT4. I am keeping notes so that I can repeat it later 

Will


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## TranquillityBase (Jan 7, 2007)

Yeah baby...that's what I'm talkin about...*Will* you're the master, that unit is absolute perfection...:bow: 

*Hey Mac*...:nana:..... 

Thanks for sharing, and the photos are awesome too...

TB


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## LEDcandle (Jan 8, 2007)

Nice job and nice machining... 

Looks like until u get the sweetspot, the luxV has a much nicer hotspot. I think the spill of the LuxV is already very impressive as it is; the Cree seems to share its light more to the spill, maybe because of the beam angle which doesn't throw everything at the reflector, and thus reducing the hotspot intensity.


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## GhostReaction (Jan 8, 2007)

Great machining Will. :thumbsup:

Seems like the Cree are better made for compact pocket monster.


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## Icarus (Jan 8, 2007)

:goodjob: Will!  Nice pictures as well. :thumbsup:


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## Ledean (Jan 8, 2007)

Great job . Lots of surgery required I guess.


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## wquiles (Jan 8, 2007)

Thanks for the comments guys 

Well, I was able to play more with the shims today. I can get it to de-focus on each direction, but the best focus still results in beamshots like the ones above. Basically, it is focused as good as I can with this reflector. I am thinking that given the narower exit angle of the Cree XR-E that I can't get enough light "on" the reflector to help that hotspot get any better. If this were perhaps a deeper reflector and/or if the exit angle were wider (like on the Luxeon LED's), it might work better.

For now, the best thing about this beam is that the sidebeam is very nice, and that I am getting light output on par with the 5W module, at roughly half of the power . This Turbo LED Module gives more of a flood light than a throw monster as I was hoping.

I went back to the Special Cree XR-E light that I did for LifeNRA and got some of the beamshots I got, which use the very deep smooth Dorcy reflector. Here is a comparison of these lights - all at 2 sec exposures.

First is the Cree XR-E at 750mA:





Cree Dorcy, High:





Then the 5W Luxeon, at about 700mA. 







I then took some outdoor shots.

First the Cree:





Cree Dorcy, High:





then the 5W Luxeon:





Note that since I am driving the Cree harder (750mA) on the Turbo LED module compared to the (500mA or so for the Dorcy mod) that the overal output of the Cree Turbo LED Module is higher - just that this KT4 reflector can't put more of that light in the "center" 

Will


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## wquiles (Jan 10, 2007)

I will be ordering some of the new Seoul P4's from the Shoppe and create a new HS for them. Hopefully the wider beam on the Seoul's will be a better match for the KT4 Turbo Head 

Will


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## kenster (Jan 10, 2007)

wquiles said:


> I will be ordering some of the new Seoul P4's from the Shoppe and create a new HS for them. Hopefully the wider beam on the Seoul's will be a better match for the KT4 Turbo Head
> 
> Will


 
Yup, I have a Turbo Module and a KT4 waiting for my SSC P4`s from the Shoppe. Should be fun to try the combo out. I am amazed you were able to fit that Cree in there.:goodjob: 

Thanks for sharing the info on what you did and with all the great pics as well! 

Ken


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## TJZ (Jan 10, 2007)

WOW, Impressive job with the machining!


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## wquiles (Jan 10, 2007)

kenster said:


> Yup, I have a Turbo Module and a KT4 waiting for my SSC P4`s from the Shoppe. Should be fun to try the combo out.


Is it a Turbo Module made for the SSC P4? 

I ask since everything I read from McGizmo states that the Seoul needs to be positioned 0.030" above a normal Luxeon - at least that is my current understanding :candle: 

My current plan is to create a new/longer HS just for the P4 and find the optimum focus point, just like I did for the Cree 

Will


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## kenster (Jan 10, 2007)

wquiles said:


> Is it a Turbo Module made for the SSC P4?
> 
> I ask since everything I read from McGizmo states that the Seoul needs to be positioned 0.030" above a normal Luxeon - at least that is my current understanding :candle:
> 
> ...


 
All of the Turbo Modules I have are made to focus with a Luxeon. I haven`t seen a SSC P4 except for pictures. I`ll play with focusing when I get mine but I feel 99.99% sure McGizmo is dead on with removing .030" to focus. Yup, just can`t trust that McGizmo guy 100%. :shrug: His flashlights are awesome but I found out the batteries go dead in his lights just like the el cheapo lights so he lost the .01% for that let down. Hehe! Anyway, I`m not opposed to removing .030" off the reflector in my KT4 to get the SSC P4 to focus better but I believe I will start with the Mcr series reflectors first. If I mess one up, they are el cheapo reflectors compared to the KT4. Ooops! I mean they cost less! :rock: Great value!:thumbsup: Bang for your buck!  ..... I like`m a lot.:sweat: 

Ken:laughing:


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## MikeSalt (Jan 11, 2007)

Can someone explain what is 'Turbo'? I'm guessing it is a 'high throw' modification, but please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks


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## Tritium (Jan 11, 2007)

kenster said:


> All of the Turbo Modules I have are made to focus with a Luxeon. I haven`t seen a SSC P4 except for pictures. I`ll play with focusing when I get mine but I feel 99.99% sure McGizmo is dead on with removing .030" to focus. Yup, just can`t trust that McGizmo guy 100%. :shrug: His flashlights are awesome but I found out the batteries go dead in his lights just like the el cheapo lights so he lost the .01% for that let down. Hehe! Anyway, I`m not opposed to removing .030" off the reflector in my KT4 to get the SSC P4 to focus better but I believe I will start with the Mcr series reflectors first. If I mess one up, they are el cheapo reflectors compared to the KT4. Ooops! I mean they cost less! :rock: Great value!:thumbsup: Bang for your buck!  ..... I like`m a lot.:sweat:
> 
> Ken:laughing:


 
Why adjust the reflector? Just remove .030 from the post of the module then mount the led or if the McGizmo removal of .030 was intended for the reflector then add a .030 shim to the top of the post then mount the led.

Thurmond


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## wquiles (Jan 11, 2007)

Tritium said:


> Why adjust the reflector? Just remove .030 from the post of the module then mount the led or if the McGizmo removal of .030 was intended for the reflector then add a .030 shim to the top of the post then mount the led.
> 
> Thurmond


I agree, better not to modify the reflector.

I have not build my new Turbo LED HS for the Seoul yet (project for this weekend), but if I understood McGizmo properly, and based on my own experience now with the Cree XR-E, the LED has to be "deeper" inside the reflector, so removing .030 from the module makes it worst. Same for putting shims between the module and the reflector - that also moves the LED in the wrong direction. You either cut the reflector from the bulb side (which then puts the LED deeper), or you create a new, taller HS  . Adding a shim to the top "would" work to push the LED in the right direction, but now you have an extra layer/partition between the LED and the heat sink - it works, but it is not as efficient as having the LED thermal epoxied directly to the heat sink (HS).

Just like I did with the Cree XR-E reflector above, I will build my prototype a tad taller than what it should, so that I can then (using thin shims) find the optimal focus - once I have this new height, we are in business to make more for sale if folks are interested :naughty: 

Will


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## IsaacHayes (Jan 11, 2007)

Kenster: They shoppe has .03" copper shims to use with the SSC P4. Just use one of those and leave the reflector alone!!  It's only 50cents for the shim, I know you can afford that!! 

wquiles: I think they mean take some material off the base of the module that sits on the reflector, not the actual post. That way the post sits up further in the reflector after the top base is thinned down. Also those .03" copper shims from the SS can be soldered to the P4 LED slug if you are worried about another thermal interface. Then you still just have one layer of AA epoxy.


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## wquiles (Jan 11, 2007)

IsaacHayes said:


> wquiles: I think they mean take some material off the base of the module that sits on the reflector, not the actual post. That way the post sits up further in the reflector after the top base is thinned down. Also those .03" copper shims from the SS can be soldered to the P4 LED slug if you are worried about another thermal interface. Then you still just have one layer of AA epoxy.


Ahhh - yes, that would also work - thanks for clarifying that for me 

Will


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## kenster (Jan 11, 2007)

Best way to do the SSC P4 in a KT4 is a new .030" taller module like will has already figured out. The KT4 with the shock deal in it already has heat issues(I have read) so adding a shim under a P4 might not be the best idea. I did order some of those .030" copper shims from the Shoppe so I might just drop a SSC P4 in that way for a spedy way to check out what P4 can do as far as throw. :thinking: I forgot about another thrower I have that a Cree could fit through the reflector hole without having to trim down to the ring like Will did. The head is a little smaller than a KT4. Emitter is a K2 mounted on a tower that screws into the head instead of just sliding in. I stuck a Surefire 3P battery tube and switch on it. Looks funny and kind of like a shruken version of my M4. It throws a tighter spot than my M4 and reads 4680 Lux at 3 feet which is higher than my M4 with WX0T reads. Well, now I made myself want to shove a Cree in that light so I guess it`s time to heat up the soldering iron. 

Ken

Ken


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## nemul (Jan 11, 2007)

good job


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