# Trespassers



## Nitroz (Nov 15, 2009)

Well it happened again last night. Upon arriving home at 12:05 I noticed some lights in the woods behind my house. To make a long story short it was the same group of guys that have trespassed previously at all hours of the day and night. One went as far this time to threaten me with a brick that he had picked up from a fire pit that I built.

Now besides calling the police, which I did and warned them several times to stay off my property. What else can I do legally?

I know some of them were drunk and they had two four wheelers to help pull out the electric golf cart that was stuck in the creek.

My two boys play in the woods alot and this has made them uneasy in their own yard.

I know next time I will be carrying the Glock since they have became more aggresive rather than the normal cussing and swearing at me. I did call the Police and they came out took my story and then left and supposedly drove through that neighborhood although I did not see any light go there from my back porch. About 20 minutes later the trespassers went back into the woods and stirred up my dogs in the house. I called the Police again, and of course by the time they made it back out the trespassers were gone again.

I am about to place my trail camera back out to try and catch them, but hope that they do not steal it.


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## StarHalo (Nov 15, 2009)

Big spotlight + big bullhorn + big firearm. You might also consider adopting an unusually large dog who gets that particular section of the yard for himself..


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 15, 2009)

They'll steal it.

My advice is illegal and not fit for the forum but IS a lasting solution so I'll not say it.


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## gorn (Nov 15, 2009)

Why place a trail camera out there, don't you know what they look like already? Next time you confront them you are going to arm yourself with a pistol. Do you really think you would kill someone over trespassing? Think about that hard before you end up in prison for the rest of your life.

I think your best bet would be to call the police since you know these nitwits can be violent. Let the police deal with them. If it appears that the police don't really check the area out then speak to a supervisor and let him know whats going on.


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 15, 2009)

Sure he would!

His kids play back there, who wouldn't kill for the safety of their kids?
If they are bad people and you hassle them with police then they might just burn your house down for it. People are crazy.
*I've said too much, sorry everyone. Please continue the discussion towards legal solutions.*


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## vtunderground (Nov 15, 2009)

Why are they in your woods? Just to hang out and drink? 

How are they getting into the woods? If they're riding 4-wheelers , I assume that there is a road or trail... maybe something like that that can be easily barricaded? 

Do you know their names or where they live? It shouldn't be hard to get them cited for trespassing, if you do.


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## Greta (Nov 15, 2009)

gorn said:


> Why place a trail camera out there, don't you know what they look like already? Next time you confront them you are going to arm yourself with a pistol. Do you really think you would kill someone over trespassing? Think about that hard before you end up in prison for the rest of your life.
> 
> I think your best bet would be to call the police since you know these nitwits can be violent. Let the police deal with them. If it appears that the police don't really check the area out then speak to a supervisor and let him know whats going on.


 
+1 on this! :thumbsup:

Keep calling the police... every time there is a peep or squeek or flicker of a bic. Keep them coming out to check it out. They'll get sick of it and do something about it. If they don't? You have a record of the dispatch calls you've made and you go to their Sgt.... then the Lt... and the Cpt... and the Chief, if necessary. And if you really feel the need? Go to a city council meeting... they pay the Chief's salary. 

Ask the police what you are supposed to do about this... not a bunch of flashlight geeks. Not that we're not a smart bunch... but ultimately, it doesn't matter squat what we advise you. What matters is what YOUR cops are going to do to you when you break THEIR law. Know what I mean?


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## post tenebras (Nov 15, 2009)

God forbid you should shoot them. This thread could be retrieved from the Internet Wayback machine as evidence of premeditation.:thinking:


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## Vinniec5 (Nov 16, 2009)

Nitroz, I'd keep my eye out for that Nitwit that picked up a brick and threatened you with it just for being told to keep off your property. He's definitely the kind of moron that can't be reasoned with unless you have the upper hand. If you can get your Camcorder, Camera or get a cpl wireless security cams and hook them up to your computer and get a picture of him to show the Police to ID him and when/if they tresspass into your yard. I would def file a complaint on him to "Send a message". The next time you call the Police ask the dispatcher to send the call over the Mobile Data Terminal (MDT) or cell phone to the officer not over the air. I'd make you a bet one of those clowns has a scanner and heard the calls and just slid inside. Don't blow off the guy with the brick boneheads like that are capable of anything. 

Sgt LED I agree with you totally, Believe me I hear you LOL

Nitroz I'm not sure what the rules are where you live but here in Jersey it's, Pull your skirt up over your head and run willynilly away screaming or we'll try to charge you with a crime for defending yourself.


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## Tony Hanna (Nov 16, 2009)

The old timers where I grew up hand loaded shotgun shells with rock salt. You'd probably go to jail for that today.


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## generallobster (Nov 16, 2009)

let us know what happens. I'd be surprised if the police ended up helping you in any real way with your particular problem. My feeling is that they are there to take down reports about bad things that have happened to you or your family after the fact. 

I don't mean to side track things, but I'm very cynical about law enforcement especially after just having listened to a radio story about a local female who went to the police a couple nights ago regarding a man that was violating a restraining orders. They drove her back to her place and said they would keep an eye on her over night for protection. They parked a patrol car on the block that night and the officer was awoken by screams. They realized it was coming from this ladies house. They entered and found her stabbed to death. The suspect had climbed through a back window. Oh well what are you going to do? Time to write another report.

Bottom line is that nobody cares about you or your family more than yourself. You can't count on other people to do that for you.


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## DimeRazorback (Nov 16, 2009)

Keep calling the police.

If they get calls every night, they may just start checking out the area more often, without receiving calls.


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## HELL LIGHT (Nov 16, 2009)

Greta said:


> +1 on this! :thumbsup:
> 
> Keep calling the police... every time there is a peep or squeek or flicker of a bic. Keep them coming out to check it out. They'll get sick of it and do something about it. If they don't? You have a record of the dispatch calls you've made and you go to their Sgt.... then the Lt... and the Cpt... and the Chief, if necessary. And if you really feel the need? Go to a city council meeting... they pay the Chief's salary.
> 
> Ask the police what you are supposed to do about this... not a bunch of flashlight geeks. Not that we're not a smart bunch... but ultimately, it doesn't matter squat what we advise you. What matters is what YOUR cops are going to do to you when you break THEIR law. Know what I mean?


 

Sometimes the best way to deal with the problem like this is by being more active in your community and let them know what's going on in the neighborhood. Most of the street cops would not get invlive in minor issues unless they receive enough of the complaints and think they have a probable cause to investigate themselves. Also sometimes by showing up at the neighborhood watch meeting and discuss the problem with the sgt in charge of the district so they will know the situation as well. *Trust me, it's better to be alert rather than being a sheep!!*


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## Beamhead (Nov 16, 2009)

If this is your property, research the local and state laws on trespassing.
Do you have no trespassing signs posted? I put more faith in knowing the law and my rights within it than law enforcement.
If you have it clearly posted and a trespasser threatens you or your family with violence then you _MAY_ have the unabashed right to handle it. :shrug:


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## HELL LIGHT (Nov 16, 2009)

If you can videotape and record everything that's taking place in and around your property and report everything there is to the proper chain of command if you think there's something fishy going on. *Trust me, when in doubt strike first and it'e better to be safe than sorry.*


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## Patriot (Nov 16, 2009)

Sorry if I missed something, but is it posted "No Trespassing" in accordance with state laws?


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## JeffInChi (Nov 16, 2009)

Arming yourself is your constitutional right, especially if this is your *property* AND your *trail*. You'll want to start calling the police and documenting these incidents also, whether it's on a physical paper report, or just the audio of you on the 911 tapes to the dispatcher. 

As some have stated, post "no trespassing" signs and perhaps rope/chain off the trail as well, so that a reasonable person would believe they are trespassing if they are on it and go past it. The first thing these kids are going to say is that you never told them they were trespassing and they never saw any signs and/or barricades.

By the way, picking up a brick and threating to hit you with it is an *assault* in my state, and i'm sure it is a crime in every other state in the US (though it may be worded different) and you should make a report for that incident as well, *start your paper trail now*.

I would suggest trying to talk to these kids when they're sober or during daylight hours in a calm manner and let them know what they can and cannot do on your land. If they are young, try and talk to their parents. If they are simply trash, this route isn't going to work and you'll have to post signs, build barricades, make your trail "unpassable", etc. and this will cost you time and money.

It sounds like you live in a more rural area, and the police are probably in short supply and miles away, so I wouldn't rely on them for anything other than documentation and maybe some advice. 

In the meantime, if you do confront them, be prepared for it to possibly get physical, and if you bring a weapon, make sure you've exhuasted all reasonable options before you have to use it. Be careful, people don't like having guns pointed at them as a scare tactic, and the next time they come around, they may be armed too. Don't display it unless you must use it. Remember, they know where you live, but you may not know where they do. I'm sure it won't come to this of course, but it's just a fair warning.

Make sure every step you take is the same steps that a "reasonable" person would take if they were in your shoes. This is how most federal, state and local laws are written and how it's decided what *is* and *isn't *legal. Of course this is subjective, but it _usually_ works. 

Just as a side note, it's true the police are here to serve and protect, but we cannot make your ex-boyfriend stop calling you, we can't make your kid go to school, we can't just appear out of thin air when you really need us, and we are not private bodyguards that can watch you, your loved ones, or your property 24/7. You have to do that yourself, and although that may sound like a burden, it's a natural burden inherent to all people living in a society everywhere. 

I hope I didn't scare you, and hopefully this'll blow over. These disputes usually have a way of working themselves out one way or another. Just make sure every choice you make is done with a clear head and not a hot one. Good luck!


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## generallobster (Nov 16, 2009)

that's some good advice, I have to admit.


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## Onuris (Nov 16, 2009)

I had a similar problem with trespassers on the 47 acres that I own. Had posted about it in another thread a while back. My property is nearly all woods, and the trespassers were mostly teens from a nearby new neighborhood who decided that my land was a good place to party and have sex. There are a lot of trails and such, and blinds I use for hunting, forts and tree houses that my kids and their friends have built. Have it clearly posted at all trail entrances and several other spots with no trespassing signs. Up until they built this neighborhood, my closest neighbors were about 3/4 mile away, and I never had problems with any of the local kids, they were raised right, respectable. So I knew where these kids were from, but I did not know who they were or what house each one lived at. We gave a nice letter to each family there, but the trespassing continued. We were kind of in a dispute already with some of them over the fact that they did not like that we were shooting our guns a lot. The trespassing continued, so one night I snuck up on them, has my PS90 in hand, and a 1911 on my hip. Asked them politely to leave, that they were trespassing on my property. Did not point either gun at them, explained to them how trespassing could get them shot, but did not threaten them as such. Did not have any problems for quite a while until late this past summer, it started up again. Not sure if it was the same group, there were a lot more of them this time, and they were far more belligerent than before. One of the older boys even had the balls to question what *I* was doing at *their *party site. I really felt like smashing him in the face with the butt of my AR, but kept my composure at least in my actions. After this we sent trespass notices to all of the families in the nearby neighborhood, along with pictures of beer/alcohol bottles and used condoms, hoping that this would wake them up. Obviously their parents did not care what their kids were doing as they still continued to use my land for their parties. So enough was enough. On one of their heavy party nights my fiance and I went out there again, I had my AR15 in hand this time, my gf had the PS90. We crept up on them, and ordered them to get on the ground face-down. I lit them up with my 1200 lumen Surefire M6 floodlight modded w/ three P7s from one side of the trail going in to the area they were at, my gf had the 650+ lumen Milky Roomsweeper from the othe side. Cut off any easy escape routes. I was screaming at them as loud as I could, but did not specifically threaten to harm them and we did not point our firearms at them. Called the county deputies out, they all got hauled away, and this time I pressed charges. Most of them are also being charged for underage drinking, a few are being charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors, and two boys who are 18 are being charged with statutory rape of a minor.

Nitroz, I don't know the laws where you are at, but here in IN, we were within the law in what we did in our situation. Here we can use any reasonable force necessary to remove trespassers from our property. I can be armed anywhere on my own property for any reason whatsoever. Many of the local law enforcement use the range on my property and we have had many conversations about this situation. We used less force than what the deputies here recommended. The last thing I would have wanted to happen was for this to escalate to a deadly force situation, esp considering that most of these were ignorant teenagers. But it would have been foolish to approach them unarmed. Who knows what any of these kids these days could be carrying and what they would do. With all of the prior reports that we had filed, the law is on our side with this one.

In your case, if you confronted the trespassers before calling the police, they probably knew you would do so which gave them ample time to get away. Next time, covertly make sure they are there, and then call the cops out right away. Might have a better chance at getting them next time. If for some reason you do want to handle ejecting them yourself, I would definitely recommend that you ask your local law enforcement what your rights are in your jurisdiction.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

Thanks everone for your thoughts on this matter, I just wanted to get everyones opinions and ideas. The Police were called twice that night, BTW.

As far as being worried about this post being public, I am not worried about it.

And just for those who wonder if I would shoot someone for trespassing, well no. The gun is for my protection against morons like this and would be the very, very last resort with no other options and only if they proceeded to follow back to my home.

After the first incident I had my land surveyed and posted "No trespassing" signs along the property lines. This morning I found that they tore one of my trespassing signs off of the tree it was on. I also took my digital camera and took pictures of all of the trails and ruts from the 4 wheelers and golf cart, aswell as my trail camera and the damaged sign. From the looks of the well worn trail in the green space area that they drive to access my property, the still use this alot.

I will continue to handle this in an appropriate manner but it does get frustrating as it is usually a long process. I am building my case against them and will have my neighbor report the times that she has been cussed at when she had the same probelm with these individuals.

Thanks for listening, rant off. 

I need one of those tripple p7 lights or something extremely bright. I have a single but still want more.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

gorn said:


> Why place a trail camera out there, don't you know what they look like already?


 Yes I do know what they look like and exact house that they live in. The camera is for proof that they have trespassed.



gorn said:


> Next time you confront them you are going to arm yourself with a pistol. Do you really think you would kill someone over trespassing? Think about that hard before you end up in prison for the rest of your life.



I will be armed with a pistol but will not shoot them for trespassing, this is for my protection and will only be used for defense against an attack from 5 guys.



gorn said:


> I think your best bet would be to call the police since you know these nitwits can be violent. Let the police deal with them. If it appears that the police don't really check the area out then speak to a supervisor and let him know whats going on.



This has been done numerous times, and will continue to be done but so far there has been resolution so far. I am considering finding the name of the person who lives at the house and sending them a certified letter.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

vtunderground said:


> Why are they in your woods? Just to hang out and drink?



I am not sure what they do exactly at those times of night and morning, I just know that most of the time people are up to no good.


vtunderground said:


> How are they getting into the woods? If they're riding 4-wheelers , I assume that there is a road or trail... maybe something like that that can be easily barricaded?
> 
> Do you know their names or where they live? It shouldn't be hard to get them cited for trespassing, if you do.



I noticed today while taking pictures that they have cut some trees in the greenspace to make riding around easier.

I have told the Police where they live and I am following up to see if anything has been done.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

post tenebras said:


> God forbid you should shoot them. This thread could be retrieved from the Internet Wayback machine as evidence of premeditation.:thinking:



I don't remember saying I was going to shoot someone for trespassing? As far as that goes I would not even brandish my weapon.

I am not an irrational redneck so no worries.


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 16, 2009)

OH if you can prove they cut the trees they HAVE to pay you for them.
Here anyway and YOUR trees are expensive.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

HELL LIGHT said:


> Sometimes the best way to deal with the problem like this is by being more active in your community and let them know what's going on in the neighborhood. Most of the street cops would not get invlive in minor issues unless they receive enough of the complaints and think they have a probable cause to investigate themselves. Also sometimes by showing up at the neighborhood watch meeting and discuss the problem with the sgt in charge of the district so they will know the situation as well. *Trust me, it's better to be alert rather than being a sheep!!*




It's a private drive, so no neighborhood.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

Patriot said:


> Sorry if I missed something, but is it posted "No Trespassing" in accordance with state laws?



Yes



Beamhead said:


> If this is your property, research the local and state laws on trespassing.
> Do you have no trespassing signs posted? I put more faith in knowing the law and my rights within it than law enforcement.
> If you have it clearly posted and a trespasser threatens you or your family with violence then you _MAY_ have the unabashed right to handle it. :shrug:


 And yes


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> OH if you can prove they cut the trees they HAVE to pay you for them.
> Here anyway and YOUR trees are expensive.



It's Greenspace so I can't do anything about that. I have inquired about buying this land but it is not possible to buy greenspace.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

Greta said:


> +1 on this! :thumbsup:
> 
> Keep calling the police... every time there is a peep or squeek or flicker of a bic. Keep them coming out to check it out. They'll get sick of it and do something about it. If they don't? You have a record of the dispatch calls you've made and you go to their Sgt.... then the Lt... and the Cpt... and the Chief, if necessary. And if you really feel the need? Go to a city council meeting... they pay the Chief's salary.



I will continue to call that is for sure.




Greta said:


> Ask the police what you are supposed to do about this... not a bunch of flashlight geeks. Not that we're not a smart bunch... but ultimately, it doesn't matter squat what we advise you. What matters is what YOUR cops are going to do to you when you break THEIR law. Know what I mean?



I know, I just wanted to hear from my fellow geeks too though. Thanks for the good advise!


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 16, 2009)

http://law.onecle.com/georgia/16/16-7-21.html

I'll be back.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> http://law.onecle.com/georgia/16/16-7-21.html
> 
> I'll be back.



Thanks for that link. I have been looking for the laws.


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## Dude Dudeson (Nov 16, 2009)

Sounds like a couple of large dogs would be useful.


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## Kestrel (Nov 16, 2009)

JeffInChi said:


> [long list of good advice - particularly the 'reasonable person' arguments - moving forward into new ground, it's always good to keep track of your bases & keep them covered]





generallobster said:


> that's some good advice, I have to admit.


+1 :thumbsup: 


Nitroz said:


> [...] I need one of those triple p7 lights or something extremely bright. I have a single but still want more.


This is CPF. We can help. 

In all seriousness, tho, good luck & take care,
K


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

Dude Dudeson said:


> Sounds like a couple of large dogs would be useful.



I do have two dogs that stay inside though, one of them is a pit. I would love to fence in my 4 1/2 acres so that the dogs could run, but I just have not justified the expense yet, getting there though.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

Kestrel said:


> +1 :thumbsup:
> 
> This is CPF. We can help.
> 
> ...



Thanks!


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## WadeF (Nov 16, 2009)

Maybe if you could get 50-100 CPF members to lay in wait in your woods with all their most powerful lights they could ambush these guys with hundreds of thousands of lumens. If it didn't leave them all blind, they would run away thinking aliens were trying to abduct them.  

In all seriousness it sounds like you are taking the proper steps and hopefully it will pay off. Good luck getting those guys.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

WadeF said:


> Maybe if you could get 50-100 CPF members to lay in wait in your woods with all their most powerful lights they could ambush these guys with hundreds of thousands of lumens. If it didn't leave them all blind, they would run away thinking aliens were trying to abduct them.
> 
> In all seriousness it sounds like you are taking the proper steps and hopefully it will pay off. Good luck getting those guys.



Now that sounds like some fun! If we get enough hotwires we could give them a tan.


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## ckc (Nov 16, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> I also took my digital camera and took pictures of all of the trails and ruts from the 4 wheelers and golf cart, aswell as my trail camera and the damaged sign.



It's amazing how costly it can get when you get 4 flat tires ATV tires from driving over nails in trails which are not on your own property.. Actually I heard that hollow steel tubes put bigger holes in the tires compared to nails..


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## Greg G (Nov 16, 2009)

If you *know* who they are, take civil action. When parents are faced with the prospect of shelling out money for attorneys...... they usually become avid listeners. 

You obviously can't scare the kids, so scare the parents.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

Greg G said:


> If you *know* who they are, take civil action. When parents are faced with the prospect of shelling out money for attorneys...... they usually become avid listeners.
> 
> You obviously can't scare the kids, so scare the parents.



Unfortunatley, they are adults that act like kids.:shakehead These people have no kids.


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## HELL LIGHT (Nov 16, 2009)

Greg G said:


> If you *know* who they are, take civil action. When parents are faced with the prospect of shelling out money for attorneys...... they usually become avid listeners.
> 
> You obviously can't scare the kids, so scare the parents.


 
*The only problem is the parents are acting almost the same as their kids so it does not make any difference at all in reality!!*


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

ckc said:


> It's amazing how costly it can get when you get 4 flat tires ATV tires from driving over nails in trails which are not on your own property.. Actually I heard that hollow steel tubes put bigger holes in the tires compared to nails..



It would be nice to be able to do that, but at the same time if they get off the 4-wheeler and one goes through the foot, people like to sue you for everything.

My luck would go like this...

On tonights news at 5:30, a man is impaled on stakes that a person put out to stop trespasser from riding thier 4-wheelers on his property.

I don't need this kind of scenario in my life, I have enough drama.


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## John_Galt (Nov 16, 2009)

Hell Light, please leave. You really have nothing to add here.






My advice, buy a couple of big attack dogs, keep track of your paper trail with your local police, and, perhaps consult an attorney as to what steps you could take. I like the metal tube through the tires (If they're sharp enough, and the atv is heavy enough, you might also punch through the wheels



). But, you're right, that could be problematic.

:ironic:

My parents both grew up in a relatively rural area. They have also told me that some of the old farmers loaded shotguns with less powder, and rock salt. My uncle said he got shot while crossing a field on his motorbike as a kid, so he stopped. Said "hurt like hell for the next week, and I'm [email protected] glad it wasn't actual shot, cause I'd be dead." Still has scars on his lower back.


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## Nitroz (Nov 16, 2009)

John_Galt said:


> Hell Light, please leave. You really have nothing to add here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That sounds painful.

The problem with today is that no one respects other peoples property. IMO, gone from today's society is the common sence American.:sigh:


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## Mjolnir (Nov 16, 2009)

Although this is a flashlight forum, making a suggestion for a very high output light might be valid in this situation. A high output HID probably wouldn't "scare" them, but might annoy them enough to take away some of their "fun." Or I could be wrong, and these people could be much more stubborn. Either way, having an HID spotlight couldn't hurt for identifying how many trespassers you have. People tend to not want to be illuminated by a bright beam of light at night, so it could deter them.

Alternatively, you could wire up a 1KW HID bulb and ballast to you house as a flood light (or even with some rudimentary reflector). If the trespassers are near your house, then perhaps 95,000 lumens of white light will discourage them.

Or, you could get a reflector for it, and direct those lumens straight into the forest for some Close Encounters of the Third Kind style intimidation. Most people have probably not been exposed to that level of light, so it could also deter them.
Or, they will think that they are being abducted by aliens.


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## Greg G (Nov 18, 2009)

If they are carrying weapons or you hear any shots get the local game warden involved. They're typically more *conscientious* than standard LEO.


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## lonesouth (Nov 18, 2009)

I would consider a brick in the hands of an agitated trespasser as a deadly weapon. I would take a camera and a gun next time. If he threatens you, take his picture and press charges for assault and criminal trespass. If he violently objects to you taking his picture, save the taxpayers a bunch of money. I'll reimburse you the $0.40 required.


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## gsxrac (Nov 18, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> Well it happened again last night. Upon arriving home at 12:05 I noticed some lights in the woods behind my house. To make a long story short it was the same group of guys that have trespassed previously at all hours of the day and night. One went as far this time to threaten me with a brick that he had picked up from a fire pit that I built.
> 
> Now besides calling the police, which I did and warned them several times to stay off my property. What else can I do legally?
> 
> ...



Well first call the cops and let them know that this is an ongoing problem. And second try and be as nice as possible to them. Until you said the people threatened you with a brick it sounded like they were just some teenagers trying to have some fun. The reason I say try and be nice is because if they ARE teenagers and you DO **** them off theres always that chance of retaliation. 

Carry you glock next time and call the cops BEFORE you leave the house. Unless the kid threatens you again dont even think about pulling the gun out though because that will probably put you in the wrong. And if he does physically threaten you or your family... pull the gun out and give them a warning shot, straight at their ATV's (If they arent too close to them).


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## lonesouth (Nov 18, 2009)

gsxrac said:


> pull the gun out and give them a warning shot, straight at their ATV's (If they arent too close to them).



That is about the worst advice I've seen given in this thread. Never pull the trigger unless you intend to kill them. If seeing the gun is not enough to scare them off AND they escalate the situation, either A. Run, or B. shoot one of them. You will not be justified in knowingly missing an attacker, but you will be justified in shooting one. Shooting to scare will be more likely to land you in jail. You are better off confronting them with a shotgun also.


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## Vesper (Nov 18, 2009)

post tenebras said:


> God forbid you should shoot them. This thread could be retrieved from the Internet Wayback machine as evidence of premeditation.:thinking:



God forbid he should get clubbed to death with a brick on his own property by four drunk doods. :shakehead


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## tsmith35 (Nov 18, 2009)

John_Galt said:


> My parents both grew up in a relatively rural area. They have also told me that some of the old farmers loaded shotguns with less powder, and rock salt. My uncle said he got shot while crossing a field on his motorbike as a kid, so he stopped. Said "hurt like hell for the next week, and I'm [email protected] glad it wasn't actual shot, cause I'd be dead." Still has scars on his lower back.



I wonder if ice pellets would survive being fired from a shotgun... or maybe dry ice pellets?


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 19, 2009)

no and yes


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## Julian Holtz (Nov 19, 2009)

Put one of these in your shirt pocket before doing anything:

http://cgi.ebay.de/4GB-Micro-DV-Hid...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4a9bb75a74


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## Nitroz (Nov 19, 2009)

Well the trail camera is placed high in a tree that would require a ladder to take down, and even then it's not going to be easy. Most of the time they are down there at night and will not be able to notice it anyway. The camera is a stealth model so it uses IR LEDs so no flash when taking pictures at night. :devil:

It's just going to take time before this finally catches up to them.

Sometimes I wish reality could be like cartoons. You smash someone flat with a big hammer, the whole time laughing and then they go back to full size after a few minutes.


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## Nitroz (Nov 19, 2009)

lonesouth said:


> I would consider a brick in the hands of an agitated trespasser as a deadly weapon. I would take a camera and a gun next time. If he threatens you, take his picture and press charges for assault and criminal trespass. If he violently objects to you taking his picture, save the taxpayers a bunch of money. I'll reimburse you the $0.40 required.



Lol


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## Nitroz (Nov 19, 2009)

gsxrac said:


> Carry you glock next time and call the cops BEFORE you leave the house. Unless the kid threatens you again dont even think about pulling the gun out though because that will probably put you in the wrong. And if he does physically threaten you or your family... pull the gun out and give them a warning shot, straight at their ATV's (If they arent too close to them).



Just so everyone knows, THESE people are not kids or teenagers, just a bunch of misfit PITA's.


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## Empath (Nov 19, 2009)

Since you know where they live, gather some of your rowdy friends together for a party night in their yard.

Just a thought


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## Greta (Nov 19, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> Just so everyone knows, THESE people are not kids or teenagers, just a bunch of misfit PITA's.


 
Hey, hey, hey! Don't be dis'n misfit PITAs! We need love too! :grouphug:




:nana:


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## npkeith (Nov 19, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> It would be nice to be able to do that, but at the same time if they get off the 4-wheeler and one goes through the foot, people like to sue you for everything.
> 
> My luck would go like this...
> 
> ...


 What if you spread some caltrops and hung a few cables at chest height (make'm steel that is thick enough to need bolt-cutters) and then posted (along with the no tresspassing signs) WARNING! THIS AREA CONTAMINATED WITH SHARP METAL, AND STEEL CABLES. ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!" 
Hey - You warned them it was dangerous. 

Also, if you catch them on your property with bolt cutters, then they are carrying burglary tools and it goes to intent to commit a crime.


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## macemagnus (Nov 19, 2009)

It is enlightening (sorry) to read this thread as a non-American. In my native Sweden (God-hating, commie-loving, etc, etc :wave 
But seriously... Living in a country that has a long tradition of _the right of public access_
_http://www.naturvardsverket.se/en/In-English/Menu/Enjoying-nature/The-right-of-public-access/_ 
makes me think that everyonein Sweden should think twice about what's so easily taken for granted.
There are pros & cons in whatever country we happen to live in, so i for one will appreciate that that is good and work to change that that is not.

Does this help You with those idiots...I don't think so, but I think You helped me a bit:thumbsup:

+1 for a speedy solution!!!


All the BEST!
/Magnus


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## Billy Ram (Nov 19, 2009)

Arround here unauthorized intry into someones property is a crime and first offences carry a stiff fine. If a fence or gate is breached it's a felony bringing prison sentences and lose of rights. Laws are very differant in other parts of the country but here you have a right to protect your life and property. Tresspassing arround here's not tollerated thank goodness.
Billy


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## mwaldron (Nov 20, 2009)

macemagnus said:


> But seriously... Living in a country that has a long tradition of _the right of public access_
> _http://www.naturvardsverket.se/en/In-English/Menu/Enjoying-nature/The-right-of-public-access/_
> makes me think that everyonein Sweden should think twice about what's so easily taken for granted.



**Tangent Warning**

I'm trying to understand this "right of public access" and from what I can see on the website it appears to apply to areas that are already owned by government space (parks, trails, mountains, etc). 

I know that the concept of land ownership tends to be a fairly American desire that's not shared as much by the rest of the world but if you owned a few square kilometers of land does this right of public access allow people to wander in and setup camp or party there? Even if you don't want them to?

It seems to me based on reading that site that it pretty much only applies to areas already designated for public use, similar to our city, state and national park systems, or at the very least areas not already claimed for other use.


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## flashlite (Nov 20, 2009)

DimeRazorback said:


> Keep calling the police.
> 
> If they get calls every night, they may just start checking out the area more often, without receiving calls.


 
Or they'll just start ignoring you.

If these are adults and you know where they live, ask the police (nicely) if they could pay them a visit. I know you shouldn't have to ask police officers to do their jobs but sometimes you have to. If this has been going on for as long as it appears, and given the amount of info. you seem to have on these idiots, the police aren't doing their jobs.

Good luck.


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## Bullseye00 (Nov 20, 2009)

Having a party in their yard and messing it up sounds like something that *might* work. I think it would really get the point across. And if they have the gall to press charges, you can too. And *you* have documented evidence and records of calls to the police, etc...
I would definitely take a camera and another person with you. Video cameras are small and cheap now. And you should begin the encounter by warning them that they're being recorded. I'd check with local law enforcement about legal ways to gather video evidence so it is admissible in court. I'd also check with your local law enforcement regarding local laws relevant to trespassing. If you just look at federal and state laws, some quirky local law can still trip you up. My parents had some trouble with trespassers last year and found out that "No Trespassing" signs needed (for some reason) to have the land owner's phone number posted on them.
Call your local law enforcement and ask if you can speak to someone about your situation. In a rural area, I would bet that trespassing issues are common and a lot of the LEOs have the relevant laws memorized.
You might also just call the police the next time *without* warning the trespassers, and ask if they can come in without lights or sirens and do a sting operation.(of sorts) They could probably catch them in the act.
Good luck with it. *Definitely* take someone else with you, if/when you confront them again. And a video camera would probably help your case a lot. Keep us posted.


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## macemagnus (Nov 21, 2009)

> I know that the concept of land ownership tends to be a fairly American desire that's not shared as much by the rest of the world but if you owned a few square kilometers of land does this right of public access allow people to wander in and setup camp or party there? Even if you don't want them to?


 
If i remember correctly...Yes

However, Don't disturb & don't destroy applies You are not allowed to set up camp, one night only, or party.. in someones front/back garden or within the area surrounding your house, usually the area around the house that has a fence or similar surrounding it.
An easy way to decide where not to go when out walking/camping is; don't walk in someones garden, dont set up camp if I can see the house or they could hear me.
Don't walk in fields wher crops are growing, don't disturb livestock.
Don't moore (? tie up your boat) within reasonable distance oc someones jetty etc.

In short.... Don't be an a**hole

I am also allowed to pick berries, mushrooms, flowers and fruit as long as I stay out of Your garden, and orchards of course!!!!
I can _not_ cut down trees, break branches etc.

It is a delicate right that works as long as we use common sense (someone said, the sad thing about common sense is that it's not very...)
Another problem is that tourists arrive thinking that they can run around in the wild doing whatever they feel like:scowl:
But they are not properly informed when arriving so....? Native Swedes are far from perfect... 

All regulations, local and state laws concerning endangered species, plant life, animal life, etc, etc apply and overide _the right of.. _
Come elk hunting season.... wear something bright

Not to hard to live by if You've been brought up here, but not so easy to explain

Some belive that it has to change with open borders and all, I hope not.

/M


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## Alberta-Blue (Nov 21, 2009)

Go out and buy yourself a **** :devil:! (Now, Ill explain...)

A **** is one of those intimidator type weapons that is done up to look extremely vicious and has the BALLS to back up the point your trying to make.

I would suggest a classic. A Remington 870 Magnum with a Surefire forend light system, a tactical pistol grip and extender stock by blackhawk, and an EO Tech holo sight system .

These guys start screwing around on your property, WHERE YOUR CHILDREN PLAY AND ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL SAFE, the good solid rack of that piece of steel is gonna make em think twice 'bout stayin around . If that doesnt work by itself... hearing the rack and being lit up like a second sun just rose will prolly have em leaving poop trails all the way back to momma (which the coppers can use to track em down:thumbsup...

This is just my suggestion... but Ill admit I am a GIANT redneck, and DO NOT take well to people screwing around on my property, let alone with my family! (Its also a great excuse to spend a butt load of money on some cool new toys :twothumbs)


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## kanarie (Nov 21, 2009)

> If i remember correctly...Yes
> 
> However, Don't disturb & don't destroy applies You are not allowed to set up camp, one night only, or party.. in someones front/back garden or within the area surrounding your house, usually the area around the house that has a fence or similar surrounding it.
> An easy way to decide where not to go when out walking/camping is; don't walk in someones garden, dont set up camp if I can see the house or they could hear me.
> ...



I think it is wonderful!
Here in an another part of (NW) Europe the laws are not that loose (or free)
After sunset you are not even allowed to be in the forest.
But at the other hand you don't risk being killed just for walking around on the wrong spot like in some other countries


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## Nitroz (Nov 21, 2009)

Alberta-Blue said:


> Go out and buy yourself a **** :devil:! (Now, Ill explain...)
> 
> A **** is one of those intimidator type weapons that is done up to look extremely vicious and has the BALLS to back up the point your trying to make.
> 
> ...



Very interesting. If I am going to buy an 870 I want the real thing! 

Lucky for them the only person that they have messed with is me. If they come anywhere near my house or the Wife and kids someones getting a butt whoopin'!

I am trying to handle the situation in a calm and rational manner, but the crap they pulled the other night sure makes it hard.


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## Beamhead (Nov 21, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> Sometimes I wish reality could be like cartoons. You smash someone flat with a big hammer, the whole time laughing and then they go back to full size after a few minutes.


 
:laughing: I am glad we aren't cartoons, I think we must suffer consequences of our transgressions. :whoopin:


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## Nitroz (Nov 21, 2009)

Beamhead said:


> :laughing: I am glad we aren't cartoons, I think we must suffer consequences of our digressions. :whoopin:


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## TedTheLed (Nov 21, 2009)

there was a 'party' spot on some vacant land in front of me, near the highway -- beer bottles and trash abounded, until I hid the carcass of a dead coyote under a bush nearby..

in case you've never had the pleasure of standing downwind of a rotting corpse, the stink of that thing passed beyond an odor to actual pain upon entering the nostril..

no more overnight partiers in the area since..


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## Mjolnir (Nov 21, 2009)

On a similar note, you could put some of THIS all over the area on your property where the trespassers frequent...


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## LumenHound (Nov 21, 2009)

There actually is a skunk spray that can be used to clear away people.
Sky News skunk spray report


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## chibato (Nov 21, 2009)

LumenHound said:


> There actually is a skunk spray that can be used to clear away people.
> Sky News skunk spray report


 
That is great, where can I purchase some:green:?

Nitroz, have you been calling the Monroe P.D. or Walton County S.O.?

Georgia DNR Rangers deal with trespassers often and may be of more assistance. 

Walton County (found this online):
*Ranger Jessica Spencer
*Wildlife Resources Division
Region III Law Enforcement
142 Bob Kirk Road
Thomson, GA 30824-6727

(706) 595-5639
(706) 595-4211


*Sergeant Brian Carter*
Wildlife Resources Division
Region III Law Enforcement
142 Bob Kirk Road
Thomson, GA 30824-6727

(706) 595-5639
(706) 595-4211


*Corporal Julian Wilkins*
Wildlife Resources Division
Region III Law Enforcement
142 Bob Kirk Road
Thomson, GA 30824-6727

(706) 595-5639
(706) 595-4211


*Ranger First Class Nick Jenkins*
Wildlife Resources Division
Region III Law Enforcement
142 Bob Kirk Road
Thomson, GA 30824-6727

(706) 595-5639
(706) 595-4211


There is a lot of advice online, and it sounds like you may have already read some of it. There are a number of legal remedies that you have. Here are a few good tips:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2063791_sue-trespass.html

And a few more:

When observed:
1. Call the nearest law enforcement official.
2. Ask the trespasser to leave. You may ask for a name and a license number.
3. Document the situation by photographing or video taping trespassers, their activities, their vehicle, and points of entry relative to your posting.
4. In the case of a repeat trespasser, consider sending the individual(s) a letter by certified mail informing them that if they are caught trespassing you will pursue prosecution under state trespass laws as well as in civil courts for any damages. Include in the letter, a map that clearly defines your property boundaries. You may wish to consult an attorney versed in property law to help you draft and send this letter. Often a letter from an attorney will serve as additional notice of your resolve to prosecute.
5. In addition, you may bring a civil action suit against the trespasser or file a complaint with the county attorney against the trespasser. If a civil action is brought and won, the trespasser could be required to pay the landowner or lessee for all injury resulting from the trespass. Such damages may include the access fee he landowner normally charges hunters. Punitive damages, above and beyond the actual damages, may also be recovered.

The fact that you actively seek prosecution of trespassers will send a message to others that you are serious about trespass. This message may do more to prevent future situations than anything else you do. 


What not to do:
1. Force them off your land with threats of physical violence or at gunpoint.
2, Confiscate their property to include driver's license, rifles, equipment, or vehicles.
3. Physically detain them.
4. Request money or materials goods from them in return for not prosecuting them. Remember, if your property is not proven to be properly posted in court, you could open yourself up to additional charges by these actions. Any attempts to do any of the above may end up in you being prosecuted for assault, battery, false imprisonment and theft of property.

Lastly, remember if there were to be violence in a confrontation between a landowner and trespasser, the landowner may not enjoy the protection of the law if force was used. The legality of the force would be determined by what was reasonable necessary. Law enforcement officers can do far more for a landowner with a good description and license plate number than with a pair of angry people.


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## Burgess (Nov 21, 2009)

to Nitroz --


Truly saddened by what i've heard (read) about your situation. :shakehead


Sadly, the *next* time this event occurs . . . .

perhaps the *safest* course of action is for you 
to bring along a Lawyer, and a Film Crew.


Best of Luck (and health) to you and your loved ones, Nitroz.

_


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## Nitroz (Nov 22, 2009)

chibato said:


> That is great, where can I purchase some:green:?
> 
> Nitroz, have you been calling the Monroe P.D. or Walton County S.O.?
> 
> ...



That's some excellent information! Thank You.

I was wondering if the Ranger would be more help to me in this case, maybe so.

Right now things have been quiet for now.


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## Nitroz (Nov 22, 2009)

Burgess said:


> to Nitroz --
> 
> 
> Truly saddened by what i've heard (read) about your situation. :shakehead
> ...



No doubt!

Why does being the good guy always have to be the hard part. 

Thanks!


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## Nitroz (Nov 22, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> On a similar note, you could put some of THIS all over the area on your property where the trespassers frequent...



I really like the idea of using this skunk stuff. Get this stuff on your shoes and it will never come off.

I had a friend that threw a flashlight at a skunk. The skunk sprayed the light and even after years you could still smell the stench some.


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## LumenHound (Nov 22, 2009)

I've heard that finely chopped skunk cabbage can smell pretty nasty for a short while. I wonder how much of it one would have to use in order for the scent to be really noticeable 200 feet down wind?


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## taiji (Nov 22, 2009)

speaking of skunk cabbage -along that line. Go to an Asian market and get a couple of durian fruits and spread it around where the jerks party.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Nov 22, 2009)

I can only add a couple things to what's already been posted.

1.) Around here, it's a good idea to have "no trespassing" signs in Spanish as well as English, and posted ALL OVER THE PLACE. If you ever do go to court, the "I don't read English" or "I didn't see the sign" defense won't work nearly as well.

2.) Why the hell did you not have your Glock on you when you confronted the trespassers the other times?

3.) I am, yet again, glad I don't live in Europe.

Good luck. Please keep us posted.


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## Nitroz (Nov 22, 2009)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I can only add a couple things to what's already been posted.
> 
> 1.) Around here, it's a good idea to have "no trespassing" signs in Spanish as well as English, and posted ALL OVER THE PLACE. If you ever do go to court, the "I don't read English" or "I didn't see the sign" defense won't work nearly as well.
> 
> ...



1. I have plenty of signs up, so that one is covered.
2. Just came home from work at the hospital so I was not carrying. I won't make that mistake again if they come back.
3. That makes two of us.


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## KD5XB (Nov 22, 2009)

I've read this thread several times over the course of perhaps 12 hours --

This is YOUR property, right?

Seems to me a couple of boxes of nails on the trail would at least stop the 4-wheelers from going back there, and I don't see how in the world they could cause you any grief over it. Of course, this is assuming YOU don't ride a 4-wheeler or dirt bike or something in that area...


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## Nitroz (Nov 22, 2009)

KD5XB said:


> I've read this thread several times over the course of perhaps 12 hours --
> 
> This is YOUR property, right?
> 
> Seems to me a couple of boxes of nails on the trail would at least stop the 4-wheelers from going back there, and I don't see how in the world they could cause you any grief over it. Of course, this is assuming YOU don't ride a 4-wheeler or dirt bike or something in that area...



4.5 acres is mine with a creek running in and out of my property, the part in-between my property and their home is about 20 acres of greenspace that they ride on and use to access my property. So no, some of it is not mine, but they still have trespassed on my property though.

I would do the nails thing, but I do use my Gator for cleaning up the woods and fallen trees for firewood so that would not work.


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## KD5XB (Nov 22, 2009)

I keep seeing "greenspace" but have no idea just what that means -- how about some info there?

And Monroe -- LOUISIANA?


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## f22shift (Nov 22, 2009)

plant poison ivy or rose bushes 
cut trees down into the paths?


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## Bruceter (Nov 22, 2009)

KD5XB said:


> I keep seeing "greenspace" but have no idea just what that means -- how about some info there?
> 
> And Monroe -- LOUISIANA?



I think it is public "open space" or "greenbelt" property.

Bruceter


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## Onuris (Nov 23, 2009)

macemagnus said:


> If i remember correctly...Yes
> 
> However, Don't disturb & don't destroy applies You are not allowed to set up camp, one night only, or party.. in someones front/back garden or within the area surrounding your house, usually the area around the house that has a fence or similar surrounding it.
> An easy way to decide where not to go when out walking/camping is; don't walk in someones garden, dont set up camp if I can see the house or they could hear me.
> ...



I am interested in knowing how common is it there in Sweden to have people on private land causing a nuisance. There are obvious cultural differences here, and it would seem to me that you do not have as big of a problem with aberrant behavior as we do here in the States, that people tend to be more respectable of others property. Usually if someone here is on another persons property without permission, then they are up to no good. And we tend to be very protective of what is ours.

I would not have as big of a problem with people being on my property if I knew that they were just enjoying a nice walk in the woods and took a tread lightly approach to it. Or if someone politely asked permission to be there. My land is one of the prime areas around here for deer. Just this past Fri, one of the local teens asked me politely "sir, may I please hunt on your land tomorrow morning". I know his family well enough to know he is a good kid, so I gladly gave him permission, even told him where the best areas and my stands were at.

I would like to think of this land as MINE, but I wonder if the State would take exception to that if I stopped paying my property tax. And the government can take our land away from us, at whatever compensation THEY think is fair, for any reason if they feel it would better the community, such as building a new road, etc. So in all reality we are just renting our land from the government, making us slaves to them and having no real security in our property rights.


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## macemagnus (Nov 23, 2009)

> I am interested in knowing how common is it there in Sweden to have people on private land causing a nuisance. There are obvious cultural differences here


 
It happens, but not often enough to make the majority want to change the law. The right to acces the land in accordance with the _allemansrätten _is included in our constitution since 1994. But the whole idea is no older than 150-200 years or so.
We are not alone though, similar rights, and obligations, can be found in Finland, Norway, Iceland, Scotland and perhaps other countries that i'm not aware of :tinfoil:

One problem is that it is not so much a law, more of an idea, general concensus or old-ish custom.
Wery few rights are actualy written down. As far as I know there is only one paragraph in _Miljöbalken "_The Swedish Environmental Code"


> Var och en som utnyttjar allemansrätten eller annars vistas i naturen skall visa hänsyn och varsamhet i sitt umgänge med den" (kap 7, 1 §).


Roughly.... "Each and everyone using the allemasrätten or otherwise spend time in the wild shall show due care and attention towards the same"

Example:
-Someone make a horse trail over private or government property or a trail becomes popular amongst horse riders.
-The landowner puts up a fence to stop the horse and rider from crossing his land.

Both might be wrong, and right:devil: There is nothing stopping a landowner from putting up a fence, and riders have no right to make their way trough or over the fence. Claiming_ The allemansrätt gives me the right_... does not work

However, _If _the horserider, or anyone else for that matter, feels that their right to spend time in the wiiild according to the _allemansrätt _is obstructed by the fence (or similar) they can take the matter to the _Länsstyrelsen _County administrative board.
They decide whether the _allemansrätt_ applies or not *in this case only.*
I don not believe prejudicates applie.
I the allemansrätt applies, the landowner can be ordered to remove the fence, or whatever the obstruction may be.

Don't be an arsehole in short


Hope this helps:huh:

/Magnus


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## Onuris (Nov 23, 2009)

Ah, I understand more clearly now.

To bad despite how far we advance and progress in so many areas every day, that it seems as a whole mankind is becoming more degenerate in the areas of personal development, character, and social behavior.


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## Vesper (Nov 23, 2009)

macemagnus said:


> In short.... Don't be an a**hole



Ahh, how the world would be different if everyone followed this rule.

Edit: ...or you lived in a culture / country / region where people were more willing to at least. Some places in the US this would work, many not so well.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Nov 23, 2009)

If it were just a couple of hippy kids going back there, I'd say screw it, leave 'em be, but leaving 4-wheel tracks, cutting down your trees, damaging your property calls for action. Especially if they were threatening you with bricks, what will they do if they come across someone who DOESN'T look like they can defend themselves? 

I would say stay covert. Gather your evidence, make your case bullet-proof. If it were me, I wouldnt be damaging people's property or even entering it in the presence of "do not tresspass" signs, but if someone asks me to leave, I'm not about to do something stupid like pick up a brick when that person could have a pistol, shotgun, knife, who knows!?!

Anyways, best of luck, and be careful. You may be the "good guy," but remember, law doesn't care about good and bad or right and wrong, law is about doing things by the books. Just try to win using the law.


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## 1wrx7 (Nov 23, 2009)

Vesper said:


> Ahh, how the world would be different if everyone followed this rule.


 

+1

Good Luck with the trespassers, and be careful.


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## StefanFS (Nov 23, 2009)

Nitroz, stay safe with people like that, keep a low profile and let people paid for it do the job (if it's possible), it will likely be a long process to get somewhere.

Since Sweden somehow got mixed into this I feel a need to speak up. The system of "free access" works reasonably well because it assumes that people show respect for other peoples property, and most people actually do. You don't trespass on property near houses or other facilities or cause damages, that's frowned upon, really hard. My family own a small property and if there ever was a problem it was easy to correct it, one time we had some tourists pitching a tent in viewing distance of the house, a German couple. A quick conversation and it was solved, a simple misunderstanding.



Vesper said:


> Ahh, how the world would be different if everyone followed this rule.
> 
> Edit: ...or you lived in a culture / country / region where people were more willing to at least. Some places in the US this would work, many not so well.


 
There's a recent example of trespassing and harassment in southern Sweden that didn't end so well for the perpetrators. The shooter was aquitted in the first trial and then judged to be guilty in the appeals court, guilty without getting a sentence that is. The reason he was judged guilty in the higher court was because he reloaded before finishing off a wounded trespasser. So there's a definite limit to what one can do on other peoples property here. 

http://www.thelocal.se/11662/20080509/

http://www.thelocal.se/15824/20081120/


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## John_Galt (Nov 23, 2009)

First off, let me give some background. I:
-ride quads on other peoples property; actually, the woods are owned by a power company. I have ridden my quad, with my various friends there for years. We do not make new trails, drive on roads, cause trouble, cut through farmland, tear things up, break trees, start fires, or leave trash. 
-do not party. First off, I think it's a waste of money, and no good can come of it. Many of the people in my area, however, disagree.
-know of many heavily used party sites in my area. They make a great place to collect cans for extra pocket money. Most I've ever collected (with my friends, they usually use it to pay for gas money) at one time was 2 1/2 30 gallon drum liners full of beer cans. It was over a holiday break, in the spring.


These guys are serious problems. Document, document, document. Record any additional encounters with them, with video, stay armed. 

You say they ride quads and make tracks. Put another sign underneath each of your "No Trespassing" signs that says the area is contaminated with metal and cable. Then, sprinkle hand fulls of nails/screws in the ruts of their trails (where you know they go, most effective).

That'll stop them. Believe me, it sucks to have to shell out for a whole new set of tires for your quad. They'll stop. 

But keep reporting them to the cops. Some have also mentioned the forest rangers. That's also a good idea. Keep them hopping, and don't be afraid to be an annoyance.

These guys, and people like them, give ATV riders a bad rap. The vast majority of off-roaders are smart enough to realize that keeping the land owners happy means they'll be able to enjoy things for greater periods of time. 

Sorry about your problems, and I hope they get cleared up soon.


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## Jay R (Nov 23, 2009)

John_Galt said:


> and get some barge tow rope, if possible (about 1 1/2 inch nylon rope, multi colored, and very strong) and hang it in low arc in between trees on the various trails. It should be loose, and, at the center, about waist height.


 
We had someone do that over here in the UK once a few years back. They were fed up with the off rode motorbikes running past the back of their house on public land so at night time they strung some rope across the track between some trees at about waist height to a biker.
A schoolkid on his early morning run to school on his bicycle in the dark caught it at neck height and it killed him.

Perhaps that was a bloody stupid suggestion eh ?


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 23, 2009)

Really?
A school kid on a bicycle?

Was he being pulled by a car at the time?


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## 1138 (Nov 24, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> Really?
> A school kid on a bicycle?
> 
> Was he being pulled by a car at the time?



You can go pretty fast on a bicycle. Even though the line won't sever your head, it can give you a serious neck injury or knock you off the bike, causing you to break your neck from the fall or giving you head trauma.

As an example of how a seemingly minor bicycle mishap can have severe consequences, my friend's brother was knocked off his bike by a slow moving car and he died from head injuries. It was the fall that killed him.

I don't know the law in the US, but here you sure as hell will get charged and sued if you set a trap and injured someone on your property, regardless of whether they are trespassing. There'd be no self-defense claim because it's a trap you prepared in advance when you weren't in mortal danger. Setting a trap is just asking for trouble.


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 24, 2009)

I suppose it's possible but it sounds way too "urban legend" to me.


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## Jay R (Nov 24, 2009)

It was a few years back ( perhaps 5 or so ) but it was on all news programs. First there was the report of what happened followed up by the search for who strung the line up, then the arrest. Don’t know what sentence bloke got in the end. From what I remember of the details, the kid was freewheeling down the hill and hit the line at the bottom. Caught it in the neck and chocked to death.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Nov 24, 2009)

String the trees with water balloons full of really cheap whorehouse perfume. As the miscreants party underneath, pick off the balloons with a CO2 pellet gun.

No, I'm NOT serious, but it would be funny to watch. :buddies:


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## John_Galt (Nov 24, 2009)

Ok, you're right. I'll go back and edit my post.

I still think that just sprinkling screws in ruts (not a whole lot, just enough to be noticeable) is a good idea. Believe you me, people tend to stop doing things that cost them lots of money they didn't plan to spend.


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## Jay R (Nov 24, 2009)

John_Galt said:


> Ok, you're right. I'll go back and edit my post.
> 
> I still think that just sprinkling screws in ruts (not a whole lot, just enough to be noticeable) is a good idea.


 
I got no issues with that. 


Couldn't find anything on the bicyclist from years back but I found one last year that killed a 17 year old biker.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...st-killed-by-wire-tied-between-two-trees.html


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## jahxman (Nov 24, 2009)

Setting traps is definitely a bad idea, and opens you to criminal and civil consequences if someone gets hurt.

However, a big fat rope or chain strung across a trail on YOUR side of the property line with a prominent sign hanging from it stating No Trespassing should be OK; I've seen plenty of those and they are simply serving as a gate to limit access. If someone drives into it they are just being careless.

My older brothers set a pit trap once for some neighborhood kids who were sneaking onto our property at night and using our pool; the pool was about 100 yards from the house. Some kids fell in and got a little bruised, told their parents and the police got involved; fortunately no serious injuries and no one pressed charges, my brothers just got a stern talking to from the cop and had to fill in the hole, but after that no more night trespassers. Not that I'm recommending this!


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## Justintoxicated (Nov 24, 2009)

Call the police and say something like ".....yea I can see them through my scope right now, I gotta go" and hang up. Maybe they will get there a bit faster? unfortunately around here the law protect the trespassers more than it protects you, so arming yourself could get you arrested, or shot. 

Perhaps there is a loop hole, like you thought there was a wild animal since you have woods right there?

Do you have a table outside you could suddenly decide to start cleaning your AR-15 on?


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## lightplay22 (Nov 24, 2009)

That skunk scent mentioned earlier could be put in ziplock bags and hidden under leaves or pinestraw in the 4 wheeler path. As it was run over it would burst and splatter all over everything, especially if they were going fast. Then their parents or whoever else they live with would get a dose of trespassing aroma. This would make having a party on your property a little less fun. REALLY JUST KIDDING!

A cool and level head (which I believe you have already demonstrated) will prevail in the end and no doubt lead to a peaceful and safe ending to this problem. Hope you get this issue settled soon.


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## Mjolnir (Nov 24, 2009)

Actually, the stuff I linked was skunk bait, not skunk scent. The idea was to put the bait all around the property to attract some specialized sentry skunks for defensive purposes.


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## DimmerD (Nov 24, 2009)

Justintoxicated said:


> Call the police and say something like ".....yea I can see them through my scope right now, I gotta go" and hang up. Maybe they will get there a bit faster? unfortunately around here the law protect the trespassers more than it protects you, so arming yourself could get you arrested, or shot.
> 
> Perhaps there is a loop hole, like you thought there was a wild animal since you have woods right there?
> 
> Do you have a table outside you could suddenly decide to start cleaning your AR-15 on?



Heh, it worked for my friend. Sorta went down like that, his house was robbed for the second time. His wife called him to tell him, she said the police told her it would be a couple hours before they could get there. So he calls the police himself and tells them "don't worry about it, I'll be there in in five minute and have a gun". 2 minutes later they showed up, true story.
And he didn't get in any trouble either, they just asked where his gun was and he told them in the gun safe. Probably wouldn't have been a good idea to actually have his gun out when they got there.


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## lightplay22 (Nov 24, 2009)

I missed the "bait" part and have had a few skunk problems at my home in the past and can say of a surety that skunks can have the right of way.

Its so sad that people will not respect the property of others. A local car wash in our town had to be closed because of disrespectful vandals.


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## DM51 (Nov 25, 2009)

Claymore


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## AndThenThereWasLight (Nov 25, 2009)

Onuris, you are my hero


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## AndThenThereWasLight (Nov 25, 2009)

Onuris said:


> I had a similar problem with trespassers on the 47 acres that I own. Had posted about it in another thread a while back. My property is nearly all woods, and the trespassers were mostly teens from a nearby new neighborhood who decided that my land was a good place to party and have sex. There are a lot of trails and such, and blinds I use for hunting, forts and tree houses that my kids and their friends have built. Have it clearly posted at all trail entrances and several other spots with no trespassing signs. Up until they built this neighborhood, my closest neighbors were about 3/4 mile away, and I never had problems with any of the local kids, they were raised right, respectable. So I knew where these kids were from, but I did not know who they were or what house each one lived at. We gave a nice letter to each family there, but the trespassing continued. We were kind of in a dispute already with some of them over the fact that they did not like that we were shooting our guns a lot. The trespassing continued, so one night I snuck up on them, has my PS90 in hand, and a 1911 on my hip. Asked them politely to leave, that they were trespassing on my property. Did not point either gun at them, explained to them how trespassing could get them shot, but did not threaten them as such. Did not have any problems for quite a while until late this past summer, it started up again. Not sure if it was the same group, there were a lot more of them this time, and they were far more belligerent than before. One of the older boys even had the balls to question what *I* was doing at *their *party site. I really felt like smashing him in the face with the butt of my AR, but kept my composure at least in my actions. After this we sent trespass notices to all of the families in the nearby neighborhood, along with pictures of beer/alcohol bottles and used condoms, hoping that this would wake them up. Obviously their parents did not care what their kids were doing as they still continued to use my land for their parties. So enough was enough. On one of their heavy party nights my fiance and I went out there again, I had my AR15 in hand this time, my gf had the PS90. We crept up on them, and ordered them to get on the ground face-down. I lit them up with my 1200 lumen Surefire M6 floodlight modded w/ three P7s from one side of the trail going in to the area they were at, my gf had the 650+ lumen Milky Roomsweeper from the othe side. Cut off any easy escape routes. I was screaming at them as loud as I could, but did not specifically threaten to harm them and we did not point our firearms at them. Called the county deputies out, they all got hauled away, and this time I pressed charges. Most of them are also being charged for underage drinking, a few are being charged with contributing to the delinquency of minors, and two boys who are 18 are being charged with statutory rape of a minor.
> 
> Nitroz, I don't know the laws where you are at, but here in IN, we were within the law in what we did in our situation. Here we can use any reasonable force necessary to remove trespassers from our property. I can be armed anywhere on my own property for any reason whatsoever. Many of the local law enforcement use the range on my property and we have had many conversations about this situation. We used less force than what the deputies here recommended. The last thing I would have wanted to happen was for this to escalate to a deadly force situation, esp considering that most of these were ignorant teenagers. But it would have been foolish to approach them unarmed. Who knows what any of these kids these days could be carrying and what they would do. With all of the prior reports that we had filed, the law is on our side with this one.
> 
> In your case, if you confronted the trespassers before calling the police, they probably knew you would do so which gave them ample time to get away. Next time, covertly make sure they are there, and then call the cops out right away. Might have a better chance at getting them next time. If for some reason you do want to handle ejecting them yourself, I would definitely recommend that you ask your local law enforcement what your rights are in your jurisdiction.



Onuris, you are my hero


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## Mjolnir (Nov 25, 2009)

DM51 said:


> Claymore



Claymore?





I'm pretty sure that showing up with a 5 foot long Scottish Highlander sword would scare the trespassers off...


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## Sgt. LED (Nov 25, 2009)

Those things are hard to use!
Makes me wish I was 7 feet tall.  

Now the claymore mine is another, and wonderful story!
Read which side toward enemy, it's important, and back off from it a good ways if you can. 
(Test your clacker before the enemy shows up just to make sure - I see the light, I see the light, I see the light)


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## tsmith35 (Nov 25, 2009)

Just got to thinking about what I saw during this year's halloween activities... a guy was running up and down the street in front of his house with a running chainsaw. No chain (I checked), but it was quite exciting for the kids.

Maybe a nice, big chainsaw minus the chain would be fun. But keep a pistol with you anyway.

Another interesting possibility is flash bangs connected via trip wires. The light and sound may provide a deterrent. Best after it rains...


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## LightCannon (Nov 26, 2009)

DM51 said:


> Claymore



My friend has been hit by one before at roughly 15 feet.

Had LARGE red welts where the skin wasn't protected so well, and many, many bruises.

Although I'm not entirely sure if the police would see this as a "weapon" or not.


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## Jay R (Nov 26, 2009)

Same page at the bottom. Trip wire activated Master Landmine. CO2 powered and sprays liquid over 600 square feet. Fill that with Skunk liquid and away you go. Only $45.


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## LumenHound (Nov 26, 2009)

Has the trail camera caught any activity yet?

This stuff claims to be the stinkiest. The company that makes it have put up this humorous webpage.
I was rolling on the floor after I read the "We collect it daily from our herd of skunks..."line. 
Man, that sure sounds like the *worst job ever*. :sick2:

Half a bottle of that stuff mixed with water poured into a super soaker water gun might be just the thing for spraying down the bushes just upwind of your unwanted visitors.

Even a fool knows you don't mess around with skunks in their own territory and if they don't know it's you then they can't give you any pinheaded macho grief.

Other products that may be of interest are Tink's #10 Skunk Scent and Kishal's skunk Musk.


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## tsmith35 (Nov 26, 2009)

Yep, you can find a whole lotta nasal hurtin' by going Googling for skunk essence. I can't imagine needing to use some of this, but there it is on the shelf. If it's damaged during shipping, everybody will know. I'd wear gloves...


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## HarryN (Nov 27, 2009)

I would suggest to consider water sprinklers as a deterent. The more powerful ones can throw pretty far and it is just plain annoying to get wet at night. At the same time - the actual harm is minimal, so your risk is low.


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## tsmith35 (Nov 27, 2009)

HarryN said:


> I would suggest to consider water sprinklers as a deterent. The more powerful ones can throw pretty far and it is just plain annoying to get wet at night. At the same time - the actual harm is minimal, so your risk is low.



That's a great idea! Works for animals and kids (hot afternoons excepted).


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## blasterman (Nov 29, 2009)

Here in michigan (like IN above) the laws are clearly on the side of the property owner...up to of course using anything up to .50 caliber. Hell, county cops might actually help you re-load :thinking:

My first action would be to sabotage the trails with some old nails driven through planks in strategic locations (Rope across the path will *get you sued* - period). We're not talking Rambo -vs- Predator here, or trying to take out the Viet Kong, but just some simple scrap 1x4's about a foot long with old nails driven through them. You want to pop tires, not puncture a foot. Throw leaves over them...a couple placed in the right spot will end the problem. 

Oh yeah...get some extra no tresspassing signs, and attach them to the boards. Not your fault somebody tore them off the trees - get it? This one goes back a long ways around here, and it works.

Only problem is it sounds like the misfits here are actually looking for a confrontation. I woulnd't be surprised that no matter what you do will cause an ugly scene because it sounds what they are looking for it given the lack of law enforcement intervention. 

99% of 4-runners around here are pretty polite to property owners that let them use the back 40.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Nov 30, 2009)

I like the water balloon and liquid spraying landmine ideas, but I'd fill them with really cheap whorehouse perfume instead of skunk spray. Harder to explain away.

:buddies:


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## Onuris (Dec 1, 2009)

Another option...

Next time you see them out there, call the cops, then just sneak up on them and hit them with this. Tell them they were warned. They won't be going anywhere for a while, cops should be there by then. No permanent harm or damage, and I doubt they will ever even think about coming back again after that experience.












http://www.coldsteel.com/pepper-spray.html

And bring the Glock with you as well...


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## Diesel_Bomber (Dec 1, 2009)

Got another idea.

Go to your local garden store and buy the biggest jug of fish fertilizer they have. Liberally fertilize their favorite hangout. They won't stick around, although you won't want to use the area either.

:buddies:


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## lightplay22 (Dec 1, 2009)

Judging from that inferno ad, you might come out of the deal wealthier as they might drop some expensive knives or something when that stuff hits them. That bike dude gets a free hammer and pipe wrench if he wanted it LOL. Just think if they dropped some expensive flashlights!! LOVE that add!


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## tsmith35 (Dec 1, 2009)

Hope that spray has a child-proof handle...


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## RobertM (Dec 4, 2009)

This might be effective if they become confrontational again:
http://www.defensedevices.com/foxpespgr.html

(Glock as a backup plan of course).


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## Nitroz (Dec 4, 2009)

Some really great non lethal suggestions from everyone.

Sorry I have been away and very busy with the holidays, work, and the business. I have not checked the camera but plan to do so very soon.

I put some fence stakes in the ground where they cross as a small deterrent.


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## KD5XB (Dec 21, 2009)

Any further updates? I'd sure like to hear this group has been put out of business.


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## winston (Dec 28, 2009)

Nitroz said:


> No doubt!
> 
> Why does being the good guy always have to be the hard part.
> 
> Thanks!



Because if it wasn't hard, any ******* with a brick could do it. It's how we know you're you; and he's a moron. 
-Winston


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