# My Group 5 Christmas Shootout Pics & Thoughts



## mtbkndad (Dec 28, 2007)

This thread will have my pics and comments regarding the lights in the Group 5 Christmas shootout. The other thread is getting rather long.
If you want to see the lights themselves, look here.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183562&page=6
I will be focusing on beamshots.
Several people mentioned the lights in the back of the truck did not seem real organized. They weren’t, :thinking: but how difficult is it to read the captions Mr Ted Bear wrote in the post listed above. We were guests at this shoot and Phil had already put the group 5 lights out on the tailgate of his truck. It would have been rather rude to tell him we need to re-arrange his lights. I personally think Mr. Ted Bear did a great job of getting results up real fast. :thumbsup:

Regarding the location, this location was not really that great. There were towers that could have been illuminated in the 350 to 400 yard range, but the canyon was so deep that lights like the Polarion products, the Beast, the HB 1 would have not done very well in the shots because the photo’s would have not shown the corona’s and neither Mr Ted Bear’s or my camera settings, for our respective cameras, are very generous. The towers would have given and unfair advantage to lights like the Mega HID and Amondotech Illuminator with their tight beams and minimal coronas. The idea was to find a spot that would be fair to all of the lights, clearly demonstrating their different characteristics.
The location and target that were chosen were because the road would be like a canvas for the beams and since we only had time for one target, due to the sheer number of lights to be shot, the 327 yard distance would not be completely overwhelmed by the high power mods and would also be at the fringe of what the lower powered lights in terms of throw could still do.

The target was the tree just in front of and to the right of the well. Since the lights had a specific target I will list the lights in terms of how well they illuminated the target regardless of how much light they put out overall.
My photos were done using a Canon S2IS set to f3.5, 6” . 

Several of the lights will look very close in the resized to fit into photobucket and on CPF format. The order I have placed them is based on being able to look at the photos when they are full size.
Lights in order of how well they lit up the target tree 327 yards away are as follows-








Night Ref shot

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Mark’s Blitz mod
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LarryK/Sleeper
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BatteryJunction/Amondotech Mega HID (Improved 4200K Costco/Harbor Freight)
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HB 2
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Amondotech Illuminator
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Barn Burner Spot
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Sam’s Power On Board
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Polarion Helios
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Polarion X1
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Polarion P2
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Amondotech N30
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HB 1
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Stealth Volcano
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Surefire Beast
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Vintage ROP
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Some LED’s for fun.
Normally I will shoot LED’s at f3.5, 8” but this time they were shot on the spotlight setting of f3.5, 6” . This way people who have these LED’s and do not own spotlights can see the relative difference in light output between their LED lights and the spotlights.







Vintage Task Force
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LOD CR
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Draco
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Night-Ops Gladius


Now for the cropped shots.





Night Ref shot
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Mark’s Blitz mod
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LarryK/Sleeper
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BatteryJunction/Amondotech Mega HID (Improved 4200K Costco/Harbor Freight)
This is not merely a Re-Badged Costco/Harbor Freight. There have been 4 improvements including a 4200K bulb.
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HB 2
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Amondotech Illuminator
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Barn Burner Spot
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Sam’s Power On Board
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Polarion Helios
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Polarion X1
If you look closely at this pic and the Helios pic you will notice that the thin brown bush branches in the foreground at the side of the road are brighter in this pic then the Helios pic even though the Helios is putting much more light down on the ground around the branches. You will also notice the top of the target tree is brighter in this pic then in the Helios pic. This light was focused slightly up and to the right. I have used my X1 and BVH’s helios on numerous occasions before he sold it. Helios throws more light down field in a wider brighter corona, but the X1 will very slightly edges out the Helios in terms of throw if both lights are aimed right. 
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Polarion P2
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Amondotech N30
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HB 1
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Stealth Volcano
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Surefire Beast
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Vintage ROP
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Some LED’s for fun





Vintage Task Force
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LOD CR
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Draco
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Night-Ops Gladius

Now for some fun on the street.
We did not have a lot of time at this point and the upper mid part of the hill is only about 100 yards away at best. I dropped the exposure down to 4” .
What you will want to look at is the intensity of the respective beams.






Street Reference shot
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Mac’s Torch
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Mark’s Blitz(I call it the HyperBlitz)
Remember this is the brightest and easily the longest throwing light of the group that was in the hills.
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300 watt Blackhawk Locator HID
Notice how much more intense the beam is then the Blitz Mod.
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VSS 3 Spot
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VSS 3 Flood
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Street Crops





Street Reference shot
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Mac’s Torch
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Mark’s Blitz(I call it the HyperBlitz)
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300 watt Blackhawk Locator HID
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VSS 3 Spot
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VSS 3 Flood
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This was a fun shoot I think it is clear that anything from the Helios down would have had trouble illuminating objects in the 400 yard range with the camera settings we were using. The HB 1 and HB 2 are nice lights, but they are really big. I have large hands and could handle them for some time but they are significantly bulkier then the Surefire Beast.
I must say my favorite beam of the bunch is still the LarryK Sleeper. It is just so perfect and even and bright. Once again I listed these lights with regard to how well they illuminated the target tree with out regard to total light output, beam pattern, etc.. From that perspective both the HB 1 and HB 2 did out perform the Beast one. 
One last comment, I did feel sorry for Phil when I first met him and found out the first light he saw was JetskiMark’s Blitz mod.   

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## fnmag (Dec 28, 2007)

Great beamshots. Thanks for the posting. A lot to digest here.


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## BVH (Dec 28, 2007)

Mtbkndad, thanks for posting your shots. Call me partial but... I enjoyed the pics from the micro-shootout back at the car with Mac's Torch, Mark's Blitz, my Locator and your VSS-3a. We really need a 1000, 1500 and 2000 yard test range to see what these super lights will do. Well, OK, maybe a 3000 yard range for the VSS-3a.


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## mtbkndad (Dec 28, 2007)

BVH said:


> Mtbkndad, thanks for posting your shots. Call me partial but... I enjoyed the pics from the micro-shootout back at the car with Mac's Torch, Mark's Blitz, my Locator and your VSS-3a. We really need a 1000, 1500 and 2000 yard test range to see what these super lights will do. Well, OK, maybe a 3000 yard range for the VSS-3a.



I really enjoyed that too and was very glad we got everything packed up just as the very shocked looking homeowners drove up to see us on the street in front of their house :huh: :huh: :huh: .

I must say the LarryK/Sleeper was my favorite beam on the hill.
The VSS 3 is my favorite beem  .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave;


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## JetskiMark (Dec 28, 2007)

Mtbkndad, thank you for your photography skills and for posting the results.

We need to get a hold of a Beast II and do the shootout again. It would be really nice if we could also include a few 10 to 25 watt HIDs and some incans like the SureFire 10X & M6.

I agree with everything that BVH wrote.

Regards,
Mark


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## Flashanator (Dec 28, 2007)

*Mtbkndad,* you sir are a god.

Awsome pictures man, I think the best I have seen showing the high powered lights. You can actual get a sense of these lights with the quality pics you posted. Dam I love that VSS 3, the locator, the ken5 & the sleeper.

*EDIT:* Hey mtkndad, do you have these pics in higher quality, like 6MP? If so I'd like the picture of the sleeper none zoom for my background desktop if you don't mind . Also with the ken5, looks like the spot is aimed at the ground rather then the tree.

:goodjob:


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## Patriot (Dec 28, 2007)

What an amazing array of serious tools and toys.

Thanks for posting all of those pics mtbkndad.


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## HIDSGT (Dec 28, 2007)

Awesome! Nice work.


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## mtbkndad (Dec 29, 2007)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> *Mtbkndad,* you sir are a god.
> 
> Awsome pictures man, I think the best I have seen showing the high powered lights. You can actual get a sense of these lights with the quality pics you posted. Dam I love that VSS 3, the locator, the ken5 & the sleeper shot.
> 
> ...



I have the pics in 5 MP, if you PM me with your email I will send you a full res copy of the LarryK/Sleeper photo.

The goal was to aim all of the lights at the center of the tree.
This is difficult with lights that are very bright or very dim, or have very wide beams.
I believe BVH and Mr. Ted Bear took care of aiming the lights.
The Blitz mod seems to be aimed okay. It's hotspot is bigger then the tree at 327 yards away. I believe what you are seeing on the road is it's VERY BRIGHT corona. 

To everybody, thanks for the kind words.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## stollman (Dec 29, 2007)

Regarding Larry's Sleeper, is that a home brew? I have a Barn Burner, but this light seemed to put it to shame in the shootout. I'd be curious on what Larry used to make the Sleeper


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## Flashanator (Dec 29, 2007)

From what I have heard the Sleeper or LarryK14, puts out 14,000 lumens in a flood output compared to the BB 8,500 lumens.

Its 600-watt aircraft landing light with I think 5-10minutes runtime max.


PM sent mtbkdad


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## mtbkndad (Dec 29, 2007)

Flashanator 500mW,
The jpg has been sent.

stollman,
Flashanator 500mW is correct with the added advantage for the LarryK/Sleeper being that it is a big sealed beam rated at I believe 12,000 lumens and over driven to around 14,000 lumens. The Barn Burner has around 8,500 bulb lumens, but there is some lumen loss before the light actually gets out of the front end. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Flashanator (Dec 29, 2007)

thx mtbkndad.


Thats a nice big pic. For close range distances, the LarryK14 rules.



later.


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## BVH (Dec 29, 2007)

The LarryK14 Sleeper uses a GE Q4559x, Halogen-fill, Par 64 sealed beam put into a no longer available (from Harbor Freight but available from somewhere else) $19.95 host. The lamp fits right in with some very simple removal of some tiny 45-degree plastic tabs. The Nimh pack is 24 Elite 4500's. It's fused and has a protected switch. Mad Maxabeam made mine but I think he is absent now-a-days. Good, bright run-time is about 3 minutes and good, less-bright run time is about 3-4 more minutes. It's definitely only a WOW light, not very practical.


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## ez78 (Dec 29, 2007)

Excellent photos, a joy to look at and very interesting to see that Blackhawk in action.


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## jugg2 (Dec 29, 2007)

Wow, those are nice pics!


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## larryk (Dec 29, 2007)

Great job. Makes me want a VSS 3 even more now.


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## electrothump (Dec 29, 2007)

Awesome indeed! You could have sold tickets. 

DN


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## tvodrd (Dec 29, 2007)

Well done, dad! :bow: (I'd have paid admission!)

Larry


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## eebowler (Dec 29, 2007)

I haven't  like this for far too long!!!!


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## LuxLuthor (Dec 30, 2007)

Ha Ha Ha!!! That must have been a lot of fun putting these through all those paces. Excellent overall shootout and displays. It gives everyone a great idea of the various comparisons.


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## curlyfry562 (Jan 22, 2008)

Mark’s Blitz mod, is this the one Sway built or the one Queenslander built? Thanks

Halogen or HID?


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## JetskiMark (Jan 22, 2008)

curlyfry562 said:


> Mark’s Blitz mod, is this the one Sway built or the one Queenslander built? Thanks
> 
> Halogen or HID?



It's a simple Halogen hotwire.

Queenslander's thread was my inspiration to build the HyperBlitz. I am post #28 in that thread and I'm speculating on how I wanted to build mine. Mine had to be self-contained and be very lightweight. Click the links in my signature for more info and beam shots.

Now I'm trying to figure out how to build a 1000 watt self-contained HID that will humble my HyperBlitz. The madness never ends....

Regards,
Mark


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## curlyfry562 (Jan 22, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I am wondering if there is some special reason you guys use such an expensive host. I know this has been mentioned before, but does this thing melt down? Thanks


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## N10 (Jan 22, 2008)

what's that "stealth volcano"??..never heard about it and it does seem to hold up pretty well against the others..more details about it please?


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## JetskiMark (Jan 22, 2008)

N10 said:


> what's that "stealth volcano"??..never heard about it and it does seem to hold up pretty well against the others..more details about it please?



There is info about it here.

I was surprised by how well my vintage hotwire toy did compared to all the HID illumination tools.

Regards,
Mark


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## N10 (Jan 24, 2008)

thanks for the info!


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## Mandog (Feb 3, 2008)

Could someone tell me what the LarryK Sleeper is? Links?

Price?


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## BVH (Feb 3, 2008)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/135194&highlight=aircraft&page=2

"Search" is your friend.


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## FelmarCorp (Mar 5, 2008)

where does one buy this light-







the HB2 ?


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## jufam44 (Mar 5, 2008)

Great beamshots-it looks like it was a lot of fun!


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## BVH (Mar 5, 2008)

At the time of the meet, the HB's were prototypes and not available for sale. I'm not sure if any of us CPF'rs obtained contact info from the two reps that were there.


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## KVegasPhlash (Mar 5, 2008)

Group 5 does list the HB-1 on their site (http://group5engineering.com/flashlight.html). Hand made, limited quantity, looks great, $3,000.


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## AWGD8 (Mar 22, 2008)

`Reference to post # 1

What were you guys doin` in my driveway ? :candle:


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## Patriot (Apr 22, 2008)

I wonder how Phil and the Group 5 Engineering guys are doing these days. There website hasn't been changed or updated. Still no pics of the H2 on there either. I wonder how they're doing?


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## DM51 (May 19, 2008)

Another excellent entry for the "Spotlights/HID Threads of Interest" sticky...


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## LightSward (Jan 30, 2010)

Mark’s Blitz(I call it the HyperBlitz)
Remember this is the brightest and easily the longest throwing light of the group that was in the hills.
-----------------





300 watt Blackhawk Locator HID
Notice how much more intense the beam is then the Blitz Mod.
------------------





VSS 3 Spot
------------------





VSS 3 Flood
------------------

These are some of the photos that really got me back into making lights.:thumbsup: Hope to see this thread updated.


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## andromeda.73 (Jan 30, 2010)

congratulations, excellent test and thread! lovecpf


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## DM51 (Jan 30, 2010)

It's good to see you looking around the forum, andromeda.73. 

You are finding all the best threads!


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## andromeda.73 (Jan 30, 2010)

DM51 said:


> It's good to see you looking around the forum, andromeda.73.
> 
> You are finding all the best threads!




thanks, I'm curious! lovecpf


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