# My New Bandsaw



## darkzero (Apr 15, 2014)

I've had my eye on a bigger bandsaw for a while now. My lathe & mill are due for an oil change so I went to my local MSC today to pick up some more oil & order some fittings that I needed. For the heck of it I asked about the 7x12 bandsaw on the showroom floor as it's the exact model I wanted. Well my sales guy was out on medical leave but they gave me a great deal on it & had one new in the box on a skid sitting in back so I told them to load her up! I got this for $850. 

There's the RF-712N style & RF-712G style which is a gearhead. I've had my eye on the RF-712N style non gearhead version as it's cheaper & has 4 speeds. The gearhead only has 3 speeds & doesn't go as slow as the belt drive version. It's not hard to change the speed with a belt & I'm used to it anyways.

My first question, I plan to use the coolant system on it but I have no idea what type of coolant to use. I hear about rust & bacteria. Can anyone recommend a sufficient coolant that I won't have to worry about?


It's still sitting in the back of my truck as I don't have a way of getting it off right now. Totally unexpected but I'll have some guys come over to help later. Of course I had to take a peak though.


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## turbodog (Apr 15, 2014)

You obviously need a chain hoist in the garage ceiling.


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## wquiles (Apr 15, 2014)

Congrats Will - looks like it will be a great addition to your shop 

As to a water-based coolant, I use only distilled water, and this (TRIM MicroSol 585XT):


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## darkzero (Apr 15, 2014)

Thanks Will, is that stuff fairly maintenance free?


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## precisionworks (Apr 16, 2014)

> Can anyone recommend a sufficient coolant that I won't have to worry about? ... is that stuff fairly maintenance free?



Band saw lube is much like the oil in your car's engine, doesn't require a great deal of thought but you do have to maintain it. Will has the tech details & monitors concentration the correct way (refractometer) & other users judge correct mix by sight, smell & taste. (Just kidding about the taste). 

Nice saw, it will cut millions of feet as long as the blade is kept wet & you keep the machine in tune (again think car).


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## darkzero (Apr 16, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> Nice saw



Thanks Barry.


Well it wasn't too heavy, 4 of us lifted it off my truck with ease & up the driveway, in less time for us to finish our first beers. Here it is next to my Enco 4x6. I'm going to miss that little guy after it has been sold.

It's got some pretty nice features that I didn't know about so I'm very happy with it. Off to MSC again to get 5-8 & 8-12 blades.


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## BVH (Apr 16, 2014)

Congrats Will! Long may she cut!


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## darkzero (Apr 16, 2014)

BVH said:


> Congrats Will! Long may she cut!



Thanks Bob!


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## StrikerDown (Apr 16, 2014)

Will,

Very cool, Great addition to your shop, Congrats!


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## wquiles (Apr 17, 2014)

darkzero said:


> Thanks Will, is that stuff fairly maintenance free?



I still bought the refractometer to keep the concentration at around 10%, but on the saw there is a "lot" less contamination than on the lathe, so yes, it is nearly maintenance free in the saw


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## darkzero (Apr 17, 2014)

StrikerDown said:


> Will,
> 
> Very cool, Great addition to your shop, Congrats!



Thanks Ray!





wquiles said:


> I still bought the refractometer to keep the concentration at around 10%, but on the saw there is a "lot" less contamination than on the lathe, so yes, it is nearly maintenance free in the saw



Thanks Will, I'll give the coolant a try later on.


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## Bruceter (Apr 17, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> Band saw lube is much like the oil in your car's engine, doesn't require a great deal of thought but you do have to maintain it. Will has the tech details & monitors concentration the correct way (refractometer) & other users judge correct mix by sight, smell & taste. (Just kidding about the taste).
> 
> Nice saw, it will cut millions of feet as long as the blade is kept wet & you keep the machine in tune (again think car).



I have heard of one "down and dirty" way of checking the concentration of coolant. Dip your finger in the coolant, if you can snap your fingers, the concentration is to low.

Bruceter


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## gt40 (Apr 21, 2014)

Congrats, I am sure that is one tool that will get its share of use. I have a plasma cutter, chop saw and a 24" Agazzani bandsaw but for cutting metal, horizontal bandsaws are the way to go.


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## darkzero (Apr 22, 2014)

gt40 said:


> Congrats, I am sure that is one tool that will get its share of use. I have a plasma cutter, chop saw and a 24" Agazzani bandsaw but for cutting metal, horizontal bandsaws are the way to go.



Thanks Mark, it sure will. I was cutting some 2.5" Al rounds yesterday, it cut like butter, so much faster & easier than my old bandsaw, using the stock blade still. I can already tell I will be loving it & can't wait to throw more stuff at it.

Thanks again for your old PM45 base that you gave me. You can see a glimpse of it in the back, I turned it into a rolling bench cart & use it as an aid for the mill.


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## gt40 (Apr 23, 2014)

Thanks! I am glad it was of some use. Let me know the next time you are on the west side.


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## darkzero (May 1, 2014)

gt40 said:


> Thanks! I am glad it was of some use. Let me know the next time you are on the west side.



Most definitely!


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## darkzero (May 1, 2014)

Sold the Enco 4x6 for $200 last week, not bad considering I got it for only $100 almost 4 yrs ago. 

So I picked up a Lenox variable tooth blade for the 7x12. Well I'm not too happy with it, maybe I just need to play around with it some more.

I'm so happy with the capacity of it, the quick release dynamic jaw is great too, just loosen off the part & it automatically releases off the leadscrew & you can just slide out, same when clamping, slide it in then tighten the handwheel.


My friend's son needed his valve cover cut to access the cam gears to get dyno tuned. It cut it nice & square & I didn't even need to clean up the cut.


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## gt40 (May 1, 2014)

I just got a new 1002 ct triple chip carbide and it is easily the best blade on aluminum thick stock I have ever used. Beautifully smooth finish even cut dry without much heat. I have had lenox carbide blades and this just cuts better, faster and cooler. The price was really good too at $150 for a 185" x 1.25". 

No affiliation but really nice blades and the price made them even nicer. 

https://www.sawblade.com/order-ct-1002-haltbar-triple-chip-carbide.cfm

Watch the video cutting 316 stainless on the site. Good blade is money well spent.


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## Atlascycle (May 2, 2014)

Look out when ordering from Sawblade dot com. They will call and call to try to get you to place more orders.

I was able to get an odd size blade made for a small swivel head saw that my dad has, and also some blades for the old powermatic
vertical that we have at work from them.


Jason


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## gt40 (May 2, 2014)

Atlascycle said:


> Look out when ordering from Sawblade dot com. They will call and call to try to get you to place more orders.
> 
> I was able to get an odd size blade made for a small swivel head saw that my dad has, and also some blades for the old powermatic
> vertical that we have at work from them.
> ...



How were the blades? I only have experience with this tri chip carbide.


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## precisionworks (May 5, 2014)

After 10 years it seemed like a good time to clean the sump & adjust the blade guides. Image shows break in cutting HRS 1.75" diameter:







Lubricant is synthetic mixed with water. I can't remember the last time it had that color ...


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## BVH (May 6, 2014)

I've got the Jet 4 x 6 sort of like Will's old saw. What is a good general blade I can use for all metals, dry cutting. It uses a 1/2" x 64" blade. I cut probably 65% Alum and other non-ferrous metals, the balance steel and a little stainless steel. Brand and teeth per inch recommendations appreciated.


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## darkzero (May 6, 2014)

BVH said:


> I've got the Jet 4 x 6 sort of like Will's old saw. What is a good general blade I can use for all metals, dry cutting. It uses a 1/2" x 64" blade. I cut probably 65% Alum and other non-ferrous metals, the balance steel and a little stainless steel. Brand and teeth per inch recommendations appreciated.



TPI really depends on the sizes you are cutting, dia/thickness, solids, tubing, etc.

These are the blades that I used on my 4x6 & it covered most of what I cut on it.

Lenox Diemaster 2 bi-metal 6-10 TPI, 5' 4" x 1/2" x .025"
Irwin bi-metal 10-14 TPI, 5' 4" x 1/2 x .025" 

I used the Irwins cause they were cheap, always on sale at Enco. I cut a lot of Ti with the Lenox blade. I used the 10-14 on thin wall tubing, solid dia 3/8" & smaller, & plastics. I've cut up to 5.5" dia CR with the 6-10 but it took forever. At the time I was searching I did not find a lower TPI blade unless I got one custom welded. If you cut mostly alum a carbon steel blade will do just fine & they are much cheaper. The bi-metal blades last a very long time though.


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## BVH (May 6, 2014)

Thanks Will!


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## precisionworks (May 7, 2014)

BVH said:


> ... Brand and teeth per inch recommendations appreciated.



My Kysor-Johnson Model R is a 7x12 and runs a 5/8" blade. Got it in 2004 & have used the same brand & tpi blade since day one. M K Morse brand, Matrix II bimetal, pitch depends on what you cut most of the time. Their 1/2 x .025 gives you the greatest selection:






I cut mostly round solids & go with either the lowest pitch or the next one up - for tubing or pipe the finer pitch is better. 






Being cheap I always check prices & have always gotten the lowest price from Stacey at DCT Industrial (800.235.0637 & ask for the Mt. Vernon, Illinois location). Tell her exactly what you want & they'll custom make the blade to any length you need, takes less than 2 weeks to get them.

Tons of information in the Morse online catalog: http://www.mkmorse.com/PDFs/Morse Industrial Band Saw Blades Catalog.pdf


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## PEU (May 12, 2014)

Barry, I have a metabo bas-260 clone I use mostly for woods/kydex as its speed is set to woods and not metals. 
What do you think about replacing the wimpy motor with a 1hp+VFD so I can slow it down to cut steel? any drawbacks I don't see?

The bandsaw weights 35kg (77lbs) its heavy for its size.


Pablo


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## precisionworks (May 13, 2014)

PEU said:


> ... replacing the wimpy motor with a 1hp+VFD so I can slow it down to cut steel? any drawbacks I don't see?



My only concern on a VFD controlled motor is horsepower since HP is proportional to motor rpm. Your saw now runs 690 m/min and to cut metal you'll want to run around 60 m/min. At that speed any motor will produce only 13% of full power. You may or may not need to step up to a 2hp or even a 3hp motor but I don't have a calculator that shows horsepower needed - there's certainly one out there if you look hard enough.


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## wquiles (May 14, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> My only concern on a VFD controlled motor is horsepower since HP is proportional to motor rpm. Your saw now runs 690 m/min and to cut metal you'll want to run around 60 m/min. At that speed any motor will produce only 13% of full power. You may or may not need to step up to a 2hp or even a 3hp motor but I don't have a calculator that shows horsepower needed - there's certainly one out there if you look hard enough.



That is exactly why I went up in power for my bandsaw "revamp" project. It came with a 1/3 HP (rated, but I doubt it!), so for the VFD I used a 3/4HP Baldor to have enough power at the lower speeds.


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## gadget_lover (May 15, 2014)

PEU said:


> Barry, I have a metabo bas-260 clone I use mostly for woods/kydex as its speed is set to woods and not metals.
> What do you think about replacing the wimpy motor with a 1hp+VFD so I can slow it down to cut steel? any drawbacks I don't see?
> 
> The bandsaw weights 35kg (77lbs) its heavy for its size.
> ...



I suspect that you don't want to do that unless you will use it just for metal. Wood working saws are kept clean and dry. You don't want to contaminate the wood when you work on it. A metal cutting bandsaw usually has oils and metal particles in abundance. 

The other drawback that I've heard is that woodworking bandsaws frequently have rubber tires that get torn up by the oil+swarf mixture.

A cheap H/V bandsaw is a better choice. 

OTOH, I have a similar sized wood bandsaw. It is stock. I use it for cutting aluminum as well as wood. 


Daniel


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## precisionworks (May 15, 2014)

gadget_lover said:


> I use it for cutting aluminum as well as wood.


Same here, using a Delta 14" 28-206. It's interesting that Delta sells that identical saw with a mechanical speed reducer & labels it "wood or metal".

For cutting Al the blade is lubricated with a bar of bees wax (other lubes may work just as well but bees wax is what I've used for 30+ years). At the current rate of use my 1# bar should last 300 years 

There's no easy way to run any type of wet lube on a machine designed to be run dry.



> woodworking bandsaws frequently have rubber tires that get torn up by the oil+swarf mixture.


Polyurethane tires are a better choice than rubber, even if cutting only wood. I've run Carter poly tires since they first came out & they're tough as nails.

The biggest issue in using a wood saw for metal is that wood saws aren't designed to properly tension the blade for metal cutting. The work around is to run a narrow blade, something around 6mm, & then replace the stock tension spring with a much heavier die spring. Carter sells their Cobra Coil spring for the Delta & Delta copy saws but it shouldn't be too difficult to find a die spring for other saws. 

When the blade is tensioned well above the normal range the wheel bearings have shortened life. Plan on replacing them as soon as they start to sound funny.


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## wquiles (May 16, 2014)

precisionworks said:


> For cutting Al the blade is lubricated with a bar of bees wax (other lubes may work just as well but bees wax is what I've used for 30+ years). At the current rate of use my 1# bar should last 300 years
> 
> There's no easy way to run any type of wet lube on a machine designed to be run dry.



Whenever you get a chance, I would love to "see" a photo (or 2, or 3) of how to use/install/hold a bar of bees wax on a saw. I have heard/read about it before, but never "seen" it


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## StrikerDown (May 16, 2014)

Just touch the blade lightly while it's running... with the lube not your fingers!


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## precisionworks (May 17, 2014)




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## wquiles (May 17, 2014)

Ahh, OK. I though that there was a way to hold the beeswax/stick in place somehow, but that is the same thing I have been doing in the past, prior to converting my bandsaw to coolant-based. 

That blade lubricant works fantastic, but you have to re-apply often, specially on long cuts. So you have to be there, and babysit the bandsaw, and add blade lubricant. Again, works great, and it extended my blades 2x or 3x, but I wanted the totally hands-off convenience of the constant coolant


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