# Armytek wizard V2 mode spacing



## YahFargo (Apr 14, 2015)

Hello,

I'm wondering if anyone who owns a wizard non-pro V2 can tell me their opinion on the mode spacing, particularly the low to med jump (30 to 200 lum)? That seems like a fairly significant jump and I wish there were one more in there at about 80 or 90 lumens. Do you ever find yourself wishing for an in-between with those two modes or does it seem like the natural next step up in brightness?

Thank you


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## scs (Apr 15, 2015)

For what it's worth, I have a Fenix e12, which has a TIR optic producing a wide beam. I find the difference between its listed 50 lumen med mode and 130 lumen high mode noticeable only if I look for it. In other words, it's noticeable but not obvious. As the wizard has an even more diffused beam, I guess it requires a larger jump between modes to produce an obvious and useful difference in output (lux). With this context, I think the jump from 30 to 200 is logical.


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## mdocod (Apr 15, 2015)

That jump would be pretty rational if the light had only say, 3-4 modes, but with 6, something does seem amiss there. Not necessarily because there is something wrong with a mode jump from ~30 to 185 lumen; in and of itself, that jump could be very rational, if surrounded by say, a 2 lumen and 1000 lumen mode in a 4 mode light. The problem is the inconsistency. In multi-mode lights, each greater mode should loosely follow a semi-logarithmic pattern sequence worth of change. 

As it stands now, the modes are:

0.2 X *9* = 1.8, X ~*18* = 32, X ~*6* = 185, X ~*2* = 390, X ~*2.5* = ~975

It just doesn't make much sense IMO. 

If it were up to me, that would be something more like: 0.2, 3, 20, 100, 350, 975 (loose example). 

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The pro model follows a more rational pattern...

0.2 X *9* = 1.8, X ~*8* = 14, X ~*5* = 65, X ~*3* = 185, X ~*2* = 390, X ~*2.5* = 975. 

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I'm actually going to be ordering a couple Pro's here soon for backpacking this summer. I noticed the unusual modes on the non-pro as well, which alone may not have been enough reason to opt for the pro, but the other features tip the balance for me and make it worth the premium.


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## RAM2 (Apr 19, 2015)

YahFargo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone who owns a wizard non-pro V2 can tell me their opinion on the mode spacing, particularly the low to med jump (30 to 200 lum)? That seems like a fairly significant jump and I wish there were one more in there at about 80 or 90 lumens. Do you ever find yourself wishing for an in-between with those two modes or does it seem like the natural next step up in brightness?



32 lm seems like a sweet spot for the majority of hours my lights are used in trail walking, camping and arm reach work. When considering the V2 Wizards and Tiaras, the standard Wizard was the only one that offered an output step right where the light would be used most for my applications and it has a rated run time of 48 hours at that level compared to an 18 hour run time at 65 lm. After using the Wizard V2 more than thirty nights I am very satisfied with the choice. 

The large increase from 32 to 185 lm is not a problem to me because the light level is usually only changed when the task being performed is significantly changed.


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## YahFargo (Apr 20, 2015)

RAM2 said:


> 32 lm seems like a sweet spot for the majority of hours my lights are used in trail walking, camping and arm reach work. When considering the V2 Wizards and Tiaras, the standard Wizard was the only one that offered an output step right where the light would be used most for my applications and it has a rated run time of 48 hours at that level compared to an 18 hour run time at 65 lm. After using the Wizard V2 more than thirty nights I am very satisfied with the choice.
> 
> The large increase from 32 to 185 lm is not a problem to me because the light level is usually only changed when the task being performed is significantly changed.



Thank you everyone for your input. With Ram2's perspective and satisfaction I think I have decided to get the wizard V2. I was 98% of the way there but just needed a little push. Thanks again for the help


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## YahFargo (Apr 23, 2015)

I bit the bullet and ordered the non-pro V2 today from goingear using their 15% off code. I'll update what i think once its in hand!


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## underconstruction (Apr 26, 2015)

YahFargo said:


> I bit the bullet and ordered the non-pro V2 today from goingear using their 15% off code. I'll update what i think once its in hand!



What was the 15% off code that you used? I am interested in picking one up as well. Thanks.


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## YahFargo (Apr 26, 2015)

The code was newsite15. The code either expired today or is expiring in a few hours, can't remember which. Good luck!


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## YahFargo (Apr 27, 2015)

underconstruction said:


> What was the 15% off code that you used? I am interested in picking one up as well. Thanks.



I see they extended the newsite15 sale until the 29th.


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## underconstruction (Apr 27, 2015)

Great. I am still torn between the pro and non pro version. I just got off the phone with goinggear and they said that the brightness levels were the same between the pro and non pro. Hmm. Can anyone confirm or deny this?


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## Woods Walker (Apr 27, 2015)

I am having a hard time seeing why one is "PRO" and the other not. Beyond the increased price what's the pro? Not being snarky rather also interested in this headlamp.


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## mdocod (Apr 27, 2015)

underconstruction said:


> Great. I am still torn between the pro and non pro version. I just got off the phone with goinggear and they said that the brightness levels were the same between the pro and non pro. Hmm. Can anyone confirm or deny this?



I actually contacted armytek directly to ask about the Prime/partner C2 series flashlights that use the new S-Tek driver; which I believe is the same driver (or very similar) found in the non-pro wizard V2. 

Assuming that is true, the non-pro (as well as all C2 series partner/prime series lights that use this driver) are buck regulated, so the "maximum" output mode on the non-pro will vary in output depending on a number of variables that effect the voltage differential from emitter Vf to power source, like what type of battery is installed, the battery/ies state of charge, the age/wear on the battery, battery temperature, and Vf of the specific LED in your sample. A good strong 18650 fresh off the charger or a pair of CR123s in the non-pro should deliver about the same output in maximum mode as the pro model, but only for part of the discharge. (armytek estimates this to be for the first 20 minutes, but there's really no way to know exactly how much run-time it can accumulate in maximum mode before dropping out of regulation without testing your specific sample with your specific power source, and that will still vary depending on temperature and other factors over time). The evidence I've seen suggests that in order to achieve some meaningful regulated run-time on this driver in maximum mode from an 18650, would probably require some careful selection of cells: IE: LG ICR18650E1 or similar. 

On the non-maximum modes, the non-pro should regulate nearly as well as the pro model through most of the discharge when used with more traditional li-ion cells which give up most of their useful stored energy above ~3.5V. When used with NCR18650Bs (the popular 3400mAH cell), which have a less traditional discharge characteristic (and quite a bit of energy in the 3.0-3.4V range), I think we could expect a good segment of regulated output in most modes, followed by diminishing output thereafter. I actually consider this particular behavior to be a positive attribute for those modes, as it combines the best of both worlds, lots of regulated output, followed by lots of safety margin for emergencies. 

A Pro model, is boost/buck regulated, so all modes are regulated regardless of the batteries state of charge, temperature, etc. The result of this is that a mode will run with basically dead-flat regulation until the battery is dead (except maximum which is thermally limited, as such would require an "accumulated" test, or an actively cooled test to demonstrate this capability). The determining factor for run-time in the pro model is the raw watt-hours of energy available to the load presented.

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Woods Walker said:


> I am having a hard time seeing why one is "PRO" and the other not. Beyond the increased price what's the pro? Not being snarky rather also interested in this headlamp.



Pro model offers: 

Back-lit multi-color LED switch, provides beacon, and a number of configurable "state-indicators" for the flashlight. 
Full regulation (boost/buck) in all modes regardless of input voltage. 
Magnet in tail-cap. (removable)
1 additional output-mode provides arguably better spacing of "main" mode group. 
SOS/Strobe function. 

I like the additional features enough to justify the increased price, that said, one could make the argument that the non-pro has benefits that don't appear "on paper," rather, appear "in-use." I suspect that in actual practice, the non-pro model will provide longer runtimes than the pro-model, as it will have a diminishing "tail" of output on most modes after a session of regulated output. The extended run-time would be even more pronounced on an NCR18650B which delivers a significant amount of energy below 3.5V. One could make the argument that this sort of regulation (non-boost) is preferable for a survival flashlight. I actually struggled with this consideration in selecting headlamps recently because I am indeed intending to optimize the selection for back-packing. I decided that the availability of firefly modes effectively replaces the need for such considerations, as long as the operator is mindful of the mode selection. For me, the "pro" model's fancy LED back-lit beacon/indicator switch, magnet, and additional mode in the main group are the most important features that differentiate these headlamps, and are enough reason (for me) to go with the pro version. YMMV.


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## underconstruction (Apr 28, 2015)

mdocod said:


> I actually contacted armytek directly to ask about the Prime/partner C2 series flashlights that use the new S-Tek driver; which I believe is the same driver (or very similar) found in the non-pro wizard V2.
> 
> Assuming that is true, the non-pro (as well as all C2 series partner/prime series lights that use this driver) are buck regulated, so the "maximum" output mode on the non-pro will vary in output depending on a number of variables that effect the voltage differential from emitter Vf to power source, like what type of battery is installed, the battery/ies state of charge, the age/wear on the battery, battery temperature, and Vf of the specific LED in your sample. A good strong 18650 fresh off the charger or a pair of CR123s in the non-pro should deliver about the same output in maximum mode as the pro model, but only for part of the discharge. (armytek estimates this to be for the first 20 minutes, but there's really no way to know exactly how much run-time it can accumulate in maximum mode before dropping out of regulation without testing your specific sample with your specific power source, and that will still vary depending on temperature and other factors over time). The evidence I've seen suggests that in order to achieve some meaningful regulated run-time on this driver in maximum mode from an 18650, would probably require some careful selection of cells: IE: LG ICR18650E1 or similar.
> 
> ...



Wow, thanks for the in depth analysis. is the beacon mode emitted from the main LED or from the LED in the button? Also, do you find 70 lumens to be too bright for basic camping use (E.G. around the camp site)? I am concerned that the 15 lumen setting may be too low.

Thanks


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## underconstruction (Apr 28, 2015)

Also, I have not seen this posted elsewhere, does anyone know what the frequency of the strobe and beacon modes are?


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## YahFargo (Apr 28, 2015)

underconstruction said:


> Also, I have not seen this posted elsewhere, does anyone know what the frequency of the strobe and beacon modes are?


Mfr documentation says 10hz strobe and 0.6hz beacon


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## Woods Walker (Apr 28, 2015)

mdocod said:


> I actually contacted armytek directly to ask about the Prime/partner C2 series flashlights that use the new S-Tek driver; which I believe is the same driver (or very similar) found in the non-pro wizard V2.
> 
> Assuming that is true, the non-pro (as well as all C2 series partner/prime series lights that use this driver) are buck regulated, so the "maximum" output mode on the non-pro will vary in output depending on a number of variables that effect the voltage differential from emitter Vf to power source, like what type of battery is installed, the battery/ies state of charge, the age/wear on the battery, battery temperature, and Vf of the specific LED in your sample. A good strong 18650 fresh off the charger or a pair of CR123s in the non-pro should deliver about the same output in maximum mode as the pro model, but only for part of the discharge. (armytek estimates this to be for the first 20 minutes, but there's really no way to know exactly how much run-time it can accumulate in maximum mode before dropping out of regulation without testing your specific sample with your specific power source, and that will still vary depending on temperature and other factors over time). The evidence I've seen suggests that in order to achieve some meaningful regulated run-time on this driver in maximum mode from an 18650, would probably require some careful selection of cells: IE: LG ICR18650E1 or similar.
> 
> ...



Thanks fr taking the time to write that. :thumbsup:Often people take stuff like that for granted which is a shame. I care not for back-lit switches, magnets and frankly like a diminishing tail end of a light as spend a great deal of time outdoors. In 1XAA setup. 

Non pro:

345 lm (30min), 195 lm (1.2h), 65 lm (3h), 9 lm (25h), 1.5 (200h), 0.15 (90d)


Pro:

345 lm (30min), 195 lm (1.2h), 65 lm (3h), 9 lm (25h), 1.5 (200h), 0.15 (90d), Strobe, Beacon

Not having beacon or strobe is a "pro" to me. In 1xAA I don't see any listed additional good solid modes to the pro. Also 9 lm is great for around camp when cooking etc, 1.5 is good for hanging out after dark but I am thinking the mid range settings are off for hiking. 65 lm for 1XAA is overkill and would eat up my battery on the way to camp. 30-50 lm would have worked better IMHO because they can nearly do anything 65 can but with additional runtime. Run time is so important on the trail. Additional brightness beyond a point only eats batteries. Never seen something 45 lumens couldn't handle that 65 would but the runtime increase can mean the difference between having to change out the batteries in the rain on the fly or doing it under a tarp at my leisure in camp.

Was going to buy it a second ago but will go on a hike to clear my mind and think on it. Maybe rub some sticks together for a fire. LOL!


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## mdocod (Apr 29, 2015)

Woods Walker,

My response was in regards to the wizard, which is a 1 X 18650 powered light. 

A 1 X AA powered headlamp absolutely must have boost regulation to work, thus, there is not going to be much if any difference in regulation behavior between the pro and non-pro AA models from armytek.


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## Woods Walker (Apr 29, 2015)

mdocod said:


> Woods Walker,
> 
> My response was in regards to the wizard, which is a 1 X 18650 powered light.
> 
> A 1 X AA powered headlamp absolutely must have boost regulation to work, thus, there is not going to be much if any difference in regulation behavior between the pro and non-pro AA models from armytek.



Thanks again.


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## RAM2 (Apr 29, 2015)

underconstruction said:


> Great. I am still torn between the pro and non pro version. I just got off the phone with goinggear and they said that the brightness levels were the same between the pro and non pro. Hmm. Can anyone confirm or deny this?



The output steps in the Wizard are not all the same as the Wizard Pro. The Wizard has one less step than the Wizard Pro. The warm Wizard Pro model has a 65lm and 15lm as opposed the Wizard having a 32lm. All other steps are the same. As mdcod stated, the Wizard has digital regulation in max mode.


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