# Need a new sharpener



## jkilo (Nov 4, 2009)

Hi all, I've been looking for an electric sharpener for kitchen knives and such, and from what I can glean off the internet, the chef's chioce seems to be popular.

The manufacturer claims these sharpen pocket knives as well. The 320 model is the one I am considering, it has a diamond wheel and a stropping wheel. 

I'm probably going to pick up a rod-guided manual sharpener (like lansky or DMT) also, as I can't maintain an angle very well by hand.

Thoughts? Are the chef's choice sharpeners hype?

Thanks!


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Nov 4, 2009)

You'll usually be able to get a nicer edge with a rod-and-guide system, as opposed to an electric sharpener.

If you want a cheap option, the Gatco works well for me. Cabela's had them on sale for $20 w/free stand. I can easily get shaving sharp from the gatco stones. One piece of advice with stones like the Gatco or Lansky stones is to use WD-40 or mineral spirits instead of oil.

If you want a better system, go for the Edge Pro systems. They are very good, and the price reflects it. If you don't need some of the extras, you can do what I did, and order a custom kit for a nice savings.


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## tx101 (Nov 4, 2009)

Spyderco Sharpmaker :thumbsup:


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Nov 4, 2009)

tx101 said:


> Spyderco Sharpmaker :thumbsup:


Also a good system, providing your knives are fairly sharp to begin with. I think it takes too much time to put a good edge on a fairly dull knife with it myself.


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## jkilo (Nov 4, 2009)

I should add that I've had very little luck with crock stick-type sharpeners, which is why I'm looking at either a guided setup and/or a good electric. That Edge pro looks like a beaut!

Will one of the smaller guide-rod types (gatco, dmt, lansky) work well on large(10") kitchen knives as well?


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Nov 4, 2009)

The smaller types will work, but you'll find repositioning the blade pretty annoying. If you can afford the Edge Pro, you'd be better off with it.


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## Radiophile (Nov 5, 2009)

I had a very poor experience with a Chef's Choice electric sharpener. It removes a lot of metal and you can damage a good knife in a hurry. I've read that their manual models are much safer to use on good knives because you can control the speed and pressure of the blade on the abrasive.


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## DaFABRICATA (Nov 5, 2009)

tx101 said:


> Spyderco Sharpmaker :thumbsup:


 


*+1....*I got one a few months ago and it works great!

I'm glad I dropped the coin on it.
Now I always have an extremely sharp knife..:naughty::twothumbs


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## Josey (Nov 5, 2009)

The Edgepro is a slick system, but it takes up a lot of space and you need to water the stones, which can be messy if you don't have the right setup.

The Sharpmaker is fast and easy, but you have to know how to sharpen a knife -- matching the angle of the stone to the angle of the edge, raising and removing a burr, learning to strop, learning to sharpen before a knife gets too dull, selecting the edge profile, etc. You can reprofile fast with diamond rods.

But 90 percent of the time, the question people are really asking is: I don't want to learn how to properly sharpen a knife, so what's the best system for someone who doesn't want to learn this skill?

Go to Bladeforums and learn how to sharpen a knife. It's not that hard. And your knives will be a lot more useful.


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## Patriot (Nov 5, 2009)

+3 for the Sharpmaker. It's a reasonable price, fast, portable and effective without a lot of sharpening know how.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 5, 2009)

Josey said:


> The Edgepro is a slick system, but it takes up a lot of space and you need to water the stones, which can be messy if you don't have the right setup.
> 
> The Sharpmaker is fast and easy, but you have to know how to sharpen a knife -- matching the angle of the stone to the angle of the edge, raising and removing a burr, learning to strop, learning to sharpen before a knife gets too dull, selecting the edge profile, etc. You can reprofile fast with diamond rods.
> 
> ...



Josey, I'm in that latter category, and yet decided to listen to Raoul Duke and other forum members who recommended going right to the Edge Pro system which I did here.

Previous to this, I have used the electric 3 slot Chef's Pro, and various carbide "Samarai Shark" type sharpeners. I know nothing about the Sharpmaker, but I also knew nothing about how to sharpen a knife.

Now having bought a Edge Pro (Pro-2 package), I can say as a newbie, that it is virtually foolproof. Yes, you need to temporarily take out the sharpener and suction cup lock it on a counter/table. When done, it gets put away.

Yes, you need to put water on the sharpening stones, but I just put an old cotton dishtowel in front of it, and all the water drips down and doesn't make a mess. It does not send water flying all over the place while using.

The Edge Pro really only has one disadvantage that I can see...namely the price. It is up to the person to decide if they want to spend that much for a sharpener (the Apex model is a cheaper option), but some of the knife images I have seen posted, and the knives I have bought just since starting that thread...clearly dwarf the Edge Pro's price.

One last thing...I would recommend these two specific links to learn about sharpening in my post here.


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## Josey (Nov 5, 2009)

Hey Lux:

The Edgepro is slick, and if you use it, like it and get good results with it, then great. The Edgepro is a great design with excellent quality, but it has limitations. It doesn't work well with recurves. It doesn't work well with with knives with a lot of distal taper (you'll change the angle as you go down the edge and probably not be able to replicate those changes on the next pass with any precision). It's difficult to measure angles on knives with thick spines or saber grinds. You can't create a convex edge. 

You still have to know enough to read the burr, otherwise you'll take too much off or stop before its sharp or keep sharpening the whole edge when only part of the edge needs sharpening. You stilll have to know how to take the burr off or you'll end up with a wire edge.

You still have to match the angle of the edge to the angle of the stone.

And I think stropping works better than tapes.

I found the Edgepro too much of a hassle, but my place is small and I like to keep my edge touched up -- sometimes with just a few passes on the fine or extra fine stone or sometimes with just a stropping.

When I get a new knife, I give it a new profile -- evening up the factory grind and giving it an exact edge of 30 degrees inclusive. The Sharpmaker is set up for that angle, and that angle doesn't change when I switch from knife to knife -- say from my flat grind Manix to my AFCK M4 with saber grind or Crusader Forge Fixed blade with massive distal taper, thick spine and severe saber/hollow grind. Can't do that with the Edgepro. With heavier choppers, I add a secondary edge of 40 degrees. And on heavy choppers, I think a convex edge works much, much better. Can't do that on either a Sharpmaker or an Edgepro, but it is easy with a homemade sandpaper/mousepad setup.

The Sharpmaker is just a lot easier for me. And I have several different rods so I can do everything from reprofiling to polishing. And I use my own homemade stropping set up, with one or two different pastes. 

To learn to sharpen, you just need to know the theory. Then you need a Sharpie to paint the edge. Then you need a 10x Lupe to examine the edge to see what's happening. 

Most of the joy of owning and using a knife comes from being able to sharpen it properly and create an edge that matches the capability of the steel and the tasks that you assign to the blade. Invest in yourself first, then in your knife and sharpening system.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 5, 2009)

Indeed, I don't even understand some of what you said in the last post. However, the DVD that came with this, and the video on their website was all the reading/education I did before starting to work on the various kitchen knives I have. Got excellent results with every one except didn't do the serated or bread knives. From what his website said, those are not easy no matter what you have.

His DVD talks about using the magic marker to find the edge, and making sure you feel for the burr.

I'm not representing anything other than the viewpoint as a total knife newbie, and that I found this system fool-proof for at least a dozen knives. Even put a double bevel on several of them. It only assumes I watched his DVD and read the booklet.


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Nov 5, 2009)

A sharpie and a lupe are essential tools, especially when you're new to sharpening. My knives would be much duller without those two items.

I will have to agree that a rod/guide system is not perfect, nor is _any other system_. All of them have their advantages and drawbacks.

Pull-through sharpeners are easy as pie to use, but won't give you a decent edge.

Rod and Guide systems allow for a good edge, are easy to use, and require very little knowledge about sharpening, but won't give you the best possible edge.

A crock stick/sharpmaker type system will give a good edge, but requires some knowledge of knife sharpening, and practice to get a good edge.

Freehand on good stones will give you the best edge, but require 3 things: knowledge, practice, and a steady hand. If you can master freehand, you'll probably never use another method.

With all of them you should be able to put an extra nice edge on them with a strop to finish it up.

The most important thing to do is to determine just how much effort you want to put into sharpening your knives, and how good of an edge you want.


A few responses to comments made about the edge pro:

The 1/2" stones supposedly make sharpening recurves much easier, and I've been looking into half-round stones that would do it even better.

As far as knives with a lot of distal taper, that's just a matter of practice, same as with any other system. With enough practice, you shouldn't have any more variation than you'd have freehand.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 6, 2009)

I know I should probably take up Josie's advice on visiting some knife forum (not sure which), but I enjoy learning new things, and there is an immense wealth of expertise even on this forum and those two links posted earlier to keep me busy at this phase.

I was watching some youtube videos on the Sharpmaker, and also this one using a mouse pad and strop. Just wondering how durable those edges are that he is getting in this instance with very little action. I'm pretty sure my problem with these hand methods is not knowing the right angle, holding that angle throughout a sharpening, etc.

What makes that knife a "convex" knife? Are my Lone Wolf folding US .45 & LW Paul Prankster considered convex blades? If so, Josie, are you saying the Edge Pro is unable to sharpen these? I don't want to ruin them.

What kind of strop do you guys use, and/or paste? He mentions a "Lee Valley double sided with green sharpening compound."

What do you look for with the loupe?


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## Black Rose (Nov 6, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> He mentions a "Lee Valley double sided with green sharpening compound."


These are probably what he was referring to:

Lee Valley double sided with green sharpening compound.


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Nov 6, 2009)

I've been a lurker at bladeforums for a while now, and I think you'd fit right in Lux :thumbsup:

Here's a link describing a convex edge.

You won't ruin your knife by putting a straight V edge on it, but for some applications, it might not be the best edge for your application. You can always put a convex edge back on it, but if you're happy with the edge you get using the Edge Pro, then you shouldn't be too concerned.

All a convex edge is is a curve, or many, many bevels if you look at it from a different point of view. If you put a double or triple bevel on the edge, and then take it to a strop, you may not have a perfect convex edge, but it should be pretty close.

I see no reason why you couldn't use the Edge Pro to put a convex edge on. All you'd need to do is back the film or any adhesive-back sandpaper of proper grit with a chunk of mouse pad instead of metal or glass.


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## Josey (Nov 6, 2009)

Here's a link to show you the profiles of different blade grinds:

http://www.the-knife-connection.com/common-knife-blade-grind-types.html

The convex edge is best achieved with sandpaper on a cushioned backing, such as a mousepad. You can approach a convex edge with multi-bevels, but that's no fun with a flat stone and much slower.

My favorite knife, and my EDC, is a Benchmade AFCK with M4 steel. My second favorite is the Manix (the real Manix, not the fake Manix II) in S30V. 

The AFCK teaches two things: 1) the factory grind of about 50 degrees inclusive cuts like crap (but looks nice, because you don't see a lot of shiny bare, non-stainless steel edge against the black coating) and 2) the sabre grind is crappy for a lot of things, like cutting cardboard, because your trying to push a fat spine through a narrow cut.

The M4 steel is probably the best all-around steel going: tough as nails, easy to sharpen, good at holding an edge. It's what most of the choppers use in the big-blade competitions. But the AFCK has a sabre grind. My Manix has a flat grind. Even if my M4 is sharper, my flat-grind Manix will slice through cardboard a lot better than my AFCK. 

When I got my AFCK, I cut the 50-degree edge down to 30 degrees, and it cuts much, much better. I'd like to have it reground to a flat grind, and maybe I will, but that's a pretty severe change for a 250-knife limited run that is no longer available.

For thicker blades, which do not go through material as well, a convex edge is hard to beat because the edge doesn't get hung up on anything.

Normally, I carry my AFCK because it is an awesome handling knife, perfectly balanced (dead on the lead finger) with a great, great steel. But if I'm going to have to cut something that the whole blade will have to pass through (cardboard as opposed to rope), I'll switch to my Manix in S30V or my Military in BG-42.

When you combine handling and balance in a high-quality, purpose-designed knife with an understanding of blade geometry and the ability to create and maintain the appropriate edge, you'll be running with the big dogs in the knife world.


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Nov 6, 2009)

Nice link Josey :thumbsup:

It gives a nice summary, one I wish I'd seen a while back, when I had no idea what half those grinds were. It would have saved me a lot of looking.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 6, 2009)

You guys are so great. Perfect answers and makes me want to go learn more, and try new techniques. TC, great link on convex edge.

I got lost since my last post looking at Youtube videos a bunch by *Cutlerlylover *(who I know is a member here--great reviews! LOL--he forgot the seatbelt test), and nutnfancy. 

This Benchmade 710-D2 caught my attention (btw, is that the forum you guys like best?)....I'm not sure how hard that metal is in comparison to M4 you mentioned, Josey.

I'll probably wait on the Lee Valley strop/compound until I know more.


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Nov 6, 2009)

Hmmm... this thread is really getting me thinking. 

I may have to put together a convex kit and a strop. 

I'll bet I could even adapt a few holders for the Edge Pro to keep the clutter on my workbench to a minimum.

Looks like I've got another fun project to work on :twothumbs


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## shuter (Nov 6, 2009)

I love sharp knives and have been using a rod guide system for over 30 years. When it comes to sharpening threads, I have read many. Most are filled with personal opinion by people who have no idea what a sharp knife is. This thread is full of solid information and links that make the learning and purchasing process easy for anyone interested in learning how to sharpen and maintain edges properly. Nicely done guys! :thumbsup:


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