# Tornado shelter light suggestions?



## sawlight (Jun 26, 2008)

My wife has put it all together and worked it out so we (SHE) can have a tornado shelter. Kind of a neat deal really, if you ask I'll talk:laughing:
So I want to stock it with things I think three, maybe five, people would need for three days max, in case it's covered in debris. I am stumped on what light to go with though! I am leaning towards an LED, MUST run on primaries, I prefer 123's, but any lithiums work for me. Must tail stand, or be hangable? I've been racking my brain, but really not sure what features would be handy or needed for this light? Something I hope to never use, but MUST work when I need it!
I think the dimensions are 8' long 4.5' wide and 5' high, not a big space to light up, but if you come out you may want to light up and survey the area?
Not much to go with, sorry, my brain is fried from work!


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## OceanView (Jun 26, 2008)

Question, is this same light going to be used once you're outside the shelter? Or are you primarily interested in a light for inside the shelter?

I ask because the requirements for the two situations are very different. You don't need much light light inside the small shelter, and neither do you want something with a small, intense hotspot. But once you're outside and need to survey the damage and whatnot, you may need the opposite, with high powered throwers.

Actually, for inside the shelter, I don't think battery type matters much. Heck, a D-powered LED camping lantern will last a good long time. Personally, I would tend to choose some type of lantern because you need an area light, not really a flashlight. LED would be the way to go for their efficiency.


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## sawlight (Jun 26, 2008)

OceanView said:


> Question, is this same light going to be used once you're outside the shelter? Or are you primarily interested in a light for inside the shelter?
> 
> I ask because the requirements for the two situations are very different. You don't need much light light inside the small shelter, and neither do you want something with a small, intense hotspot. But once you're outside and need to survey the damage and whatnot, you may need the opposite, with high powered throwers.
> 
> Actually, for inside the shelter, I don't think battery type matters much. Heck, a D-powered LED camping lantern will last a good long time. Personally, I would tend to choose some type of lantern because you need an area light, not really a flashlight. LED would be the way to go for their efficiency.


 

GREAT questions!!!
I have my EDC light, I have other lights, BUT will I have time to grab any of them? I don't know? This may be the only light I have left for all I know!
I don't trust D batterise for any amount of long time storage. I don't want to have to worry about anything in the shelter. MRE's in an ammo can, water in sealed bottles etc. "Set it and forget it" type of mindset.


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## Marduke (Jun 26, 2008)

Several Fenix E01's and a couple packs of Energizer L92 lithium cells should do you for a LONG time. A single one would light up the area sufficiently for 15 hours of constant regulated brightness, and another 24 or so of usable brightness. They will tailstand, hang, be clipped to work as a headlamp, or hang around the neck.


Other than that, I would choose a higher power light running of L91's or CR123's for shelf life.


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## SilentK (Jun 26, 2008)

a surefire E2L sounds like the perfect light for you my friend. it has a low level for when inside and has a high for when you go out side, the beam will throw a hundred plus feet i think. however i would get that, but for only inside the shelter i would go with a coleman family sized cree 8D cell lantern. it will run for around a day and a half on high and 3 days on low. i would get both if i were you.


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## abarth_1200 (Jun 26, 2008)

disadvantage of buying the D cell lantern is its size plus the size of another 8 extra batteries, compared to a fenix P2D maybe, with a diffuser tip, batteries are way smaller plus longer shelf life and you have the option to choose your light output for your needs.


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## SomeoneSomewhere (Jun 26, 2008)

Why not a freeplay lantern? http://www.freeplayenergy.com/product/indigo

All the benefits of the D cell lantern without needing to store extra batteries.


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## Lee1959 (Jun 26, 2008)

I would personally say an Inova X5, it will light up a decent sized room by sitting it in a glass and bouncing off the ceiling. It has a superb runtime, stores long and easily due to its size, and it is built like a tank if dropped, used by kids etc.


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## Gunner12 (Jun 26, 2008)

Fenix P3D or Olight T20 might work. Both have lower modes that run for a long time.

The Inove X5 is good too.

Freepay is also a good(probably one of the best) crank light companies.


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## abvidledUK (Jun 26, 2008)

At least one of every type of torch you can get, plus many, many batteries.

Bright, dim, headlight, lantern, etc.

You may be in there for weeks.


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## baterija (Jun 26, 2008)

sawlight said:


> I don't trust D batterise for any amount of long time storage. I don't want to have to worry about anything in the shelter.



Even avoiding D Cells, a lantern might be a good idea for room light. There are options that take AA (with L91) or CR123, as well as something hand crankable like the Freeplay mentioned above. If what you want is area lighting, why not have at least one light designed for the role?

Not a bad idea to keep either a light or a light "puck" right by the door if the rest of your lights are not conveniently at hand when you run in and shut the door.


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## StarHalo (Jun 27, 2008)

The Fenix L2D, which uses two standard AA batteries, lasts for *over three days* on its low setting (roughly the same light output as a Minimag), plus you still have the much higher output settings to use as needed. That means the $5 8-pack of batteries carried at every store in your area will provide you with *over a month* of light even when used 8 hours a day..


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## z96Cobra (Jun 27, 2008)

I agree with the lantern suggestion. If you want to use CR123's, Coleman makes a Cree lantern (collapsible) that runs on CR123's. Its the tri-angle shaped one, and it pretty small.

They also make a CR123 Cree based flashlight that has a screw on lantern base. Check it out at...

http://www.coleman.com/coleman/colemancom/detail.asp?product_id=2000000621&categoryid=1110

Roger


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## FenglerF1 (Jun 27, 2008)

On a side note.... you could put some glow in the dark paint the floor or furniture when the flashlights are on it charges and when off the glow should last quite a while for easy navigation, some tritium on the light's for easy location in complete darkness would help too. A Glo Toob might come in handy.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jun 27, 2008)

+1 on the Fenix L2D. I'd also suggest the light diffuser for it to light up the shelter more evenly. It's the perfect light for the situation (better if it's the Cree Q5 version). A low bright enough to light up the shelter for days. A high and turbo bright enough to survey the damage at night. Also the adaptability to use different battery chemistries (as well as different battery types and fewer batteries with L1D and P2D bodies, and P2D tailcap).


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## Burgess (Jun 27, 2008)

Very interesting thread here !

:thumbsup:
_


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## Crenshaw (Jun 27, 2008)

i would suggest a couple of E01s in there. And plus, you know all those AAA alks you dont use every last drop out of? or even those carbon zinc cells that come with cheap-ish electronics? that you wouldnt use anyway? put them all nicely somehow, on a shelf or something inside the shelter. That way, you have LOADS of batteries. STock up on Lithium AAAs too though. 
What i did, was line up all those "used" AAAs in order of thier voltage (how much left that is" , in seperate lines for Alks and Carbon Zinc, and used some tape to connect them all in that line so the dont become a mess, and put fold it in half, and put it in a ziploc bag.


Any kind of white plastic, even white A4 paper make a great bounce surface for the light, you COULD light a small shelter with a single E01 if you wanted, enough light to see by.

You can also use a milky candle, which seems to be designed with this exact kind of situation in mind.

also, alot of these will work.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/185691

surveying the area, if its dark, the E01 also has sufficient light, but i would highly suggest you look toward a more powerful light for that.

Crenshaw


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## DM51 (Jun 27, 2008)

It would be very interesting to hear from someone who has actually had to take refuge from a tornado in a shelter.

I imagine you don’t actually have to stay inside the shelter all that long until it has passed, and probably a lantern would be most useful while you are in there just sitting it out; but the problem would be afterwards, if the tornado had actually hit your neighborhood or somewhere nearby. The power would probably be out, and if it was night-time, people would need every light they could lay their hands on to help search for missing people and animals, find emergency supplies etc. For the first few hours, until emergency power could be organised, a CPFer with a range of good powerful lights would probably be right up there with medics, firemen, cops etc as a really useful person to have around.


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## chmsam (Jun 27, 2008)

If it were me, I'd want different light levels along these lines:

Background/always on (keep away the creepies/bump in the nights during the long haul) -- GloToob, Krill, Eveready 2 or 4 AA LED folding lantern on low.

Ambient light during waking hours -- LED folding lantern as above or larger as needed depending on the size of the shelter/room.

Task lighting (got stuff to do lights) -- headlamps, small flashlights (maybe with NiteIze Lite Bite or similar).

Signal (and threat deterrence -- Save My Butt! and/or "things are getting nasty") lights -- brightest & easiest to use lights you have, at least one >3 D cell Mag with LED mod (flashlight, club, and/or pry tool all in one), and at least one small but very bright and super easy to use light for each person. However, it is important to keep such a light with (or better yet, on) each person in the shelter at all times.

I lean towards AA or AAA for light weight and ease of use, but also for the easy ability to buy, stock, and find batteries. Cheap, too (but do consider lithium batteries). Keep to as few different types of batteries as possible (the D Mag light and a few spares would be the exception since it probably won't get used too much).

Practice using the shelter and get the whole family used to being there and being comfortable. 

For shelter living, safety first, familiarity next, but creature comforts are important, too. Store a few items there to remind you of more comfortable times. Remember, after the emergency it still might take quite some time to get back to normal.


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## Gunner12 (Jun 27, 2008)

Making one of these(and potting it) could make a good long lasting light.


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## DaveT (Jun 27, 2008)

It's great that you're thinking ahead on this kind of problem. A couple days' food and water stored "set it and forget it" is fantastic. But for the lighting, I think you'd probably be happier with lantern style lights than an EDC-sized light (of course, anything in an emergency). 

Especially for a small room, I like something like the Nuwai (with many co-branded names) 12-LED lanterns that run off 4D cells. Also, Energizer has its large folding lantern, fluorescent, running off 4D cells. And Energizer's smaller, 2-LED, 4AA folding lantern - get 4-6 of these, and you can have light all around a room that would be a tornado shelter size. 

Several years ago I snagged several Energizer decorative yard lights that run off a single D cell. I have a couple set up with lithium AAs inside, put into battery upsizers (a C-cell-sized plastic shell that holds the AA, nested inside a D-sized shell like those Russian dolls) so that I could "set and forget it."

But truthfully, I think you could count on D batteries inside a shelter to last for a couple years at least before swapping them out for fresher ones.

Just my 2 cents' worth

Dave


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## Aluminous (Jun 27, 2008)

DaveT said:


> It's great that you're thinking ahead on this kind of problem. A couple days' food and water stored "set it and forget it" is fantastic.



And just in case you haven't already thought about this, I'll point out that in most cases it shouldn't be _totally_ 'set and forgotten' -- the stored food and water should be swapped out periodically.  (Get replacements for the stored items and eat/drink what had been stored.) The types of food and the way the water is stored determine how long it will be sure to still be good. Might want to do it once a year, for example.


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## Marduke (Jun 27, 2008)

Aluminous said:


> And just in case you haven't already thought about this, I'll point out that in most cases it shouldn't be _totally_ 'set and forgotten' -- the stored food and water should be swapped out periodically.  (Get replacements for the stored items and eat/drink what had been stored.) The types of food and the way the water is stored determine how long it will be sure to still be good. Might want to do it once a year, for example.



MRE's are good for at least 10 years.


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## Aluminous (Jun 27, 2008)

Marduke said:


> MRE's are good for at least 10 years.



Not necessarily... They'll be good for 10+ years in optimum storage conditions at a steady 60 degrees F, but under average conditions it's said they should probably only be counted on for 3 years (but might still be edible longer). Some foods included in MREs don't hold up as well as others, too.
http://www.mreinfo.com/us/mre/mre-longevity.html

And it depends on the type of food, as I said... many people prefer to use 'normal' food instead of or in addition to MREs.  Particularly if kids might be involved.

Some suggestions/guidelines for food and water storage:
http://www.msdh.state.ms.us/msdhsite/_static/44,4797,122,218.html
http://beprepared.com/article.asp?ai=64&name=Rotating Your Food Storage&bhcd2=1214622008


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## sawlight (Jun 27, 2008)

Marduke said:


> MRE's are good for at least 10 years.


 

And this is my main point!! Sealed bottled water should be good for a year. 
I hope not to be in the shelter more than a few minuets, hours at most. But debris can hamper things, and the shelter we are getting will be in/under the garage floor. IF we get hit, it may take a while to get rescued depending on the severity of the storm. We don't live that far from Andover KS, which up until the storm that hit OK city was the largest tornado on record. So the threat is VERY real.
I doubt a pry bar or any tool of that nature will be of much use, the door slides into the floor so if debris is a problem it will most likely have to be cut or bulldozed out of the way.
D cells have their place, but I don't think this is it. I do not want ANYTHING to do with alkaline cells for this situation. It's too easy to get complacent and all you have is a light full of acid. Lithiums are the ONLY power source I will consider!
I like the lantern idea, but no larger than the area is, I think a multi mode light "candle sticking" should light it up plenty on low. As space is at a premium, I'd like to stick with what I need and not much else. An EO1 on lithium for a backup wouldn't be a bad idea, and probably will happen. But now I am trying to stick with the K I S S idea.
Good ideas, and food for thought so far guys, thanks!


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## StarHalo (Jun 28, 2008)

Don't forget the radio; I noted this one in a previous emergency/survival thread:

The Sony ICF-B05W







Standing a just over 7 inches tall, it features an AM/FM/Weather band analog tuner, a hand-crank generator that will power the AM band for one hour for one minute of cranking, an LED light *with a high and low setting*, a water resistant case, and best of all: it's powered by *two C cells* for a total AM runtime of *355 HOURS.* 

In the ice storm five-day power outage ordeal I was in, I found that I left the radio on pretty much nonstop in the waking hours, not just for news but to provide entertainment and generally keep up morale. This radio, if used for 16 hours a day will last *over 22 days* on a single pair of batteries, and even then you still have the option to crank.

With this radio and the aforementioned Fenix L2D, you could easily go through a multi-day emergency with plenty of lighting and news/entertainment without ever even having to change batteries..


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## GPB (Jun 28, 2008)

There's lots of good advice here. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is to coordinate your devices so they all run off the same batteries. If you are also going to have a portable AM radio ( and you should.....its how the authorities will communicate ), a battery powered cell phone charger, a pair of walkie talkies, etc; you should try to use a similar battery format so all of your spares are interchangeable. 

I think standard alkaline batteries have a shelf life of 5-7 years, so they should be fine.

Also, don't skimp on first aid supplies. You'd hate to survive the tornado only to be done in by an infected wound.


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## sawlight (Jun 28, 2008)

Ice storms and power outages I can deal with easily. I have a 10kw welder/generator that will run my whole house. We lost power three and a half years ago for seven days. You'd have never known it.
But yes, I have a nice world band radio, as well as a scanner, with the NOAA channels programed that will be well positioned if the need arises!


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## Burgess (Jun 28, 2008)

*I think standard alkaline batteries have a shelf life of 5-7 years, so they should be fine.*


Just be aware . . . .


That *5 to 7 years* estimate is often quite, uhmm, Optimistic !


_


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## sawlight (Jun 28, 2008)

Burgess said:


> *I think standard alkaline batteries have a shelf life of 5-7 years, so they should be fine.*
> 
> 
> Just be aware . . . .
> ...


 

....................And I have seen them in a Mag after six months as well!!
Lithiums, thank you!


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## Dr Jekell (Jun 28, 2008)

Why not have something like this:

*Area lighting*

4 D cell LED or Florescent lantern

*General Task lights*

- Surefire E2L (9 hour runtime version)
- Small 2 x AA Cell Lantern
- LED 2 x AA Cell Head Light

*Oh Bugger/Searching through rubble etc Lights*

- Surefire M3 (Bright light with good colour rendition)
- Surefire M3 Turbo or similar (Distance lighting)
- Novatac 120E (General long runtime lighting)
- Led head light (When need to have hands free)

Above lights to be kept in a Maxpedition Gearslinger or Versipack (these bags keep close to the body which helps when you are moving about) with the following:

- Small FAK
- Pad and Pen
- Pair of utility gloves (Get the best you can buy, as you only have one pair of hands)
- Pelican 1020 case with 24 Quality CR123A's
- Spare ID
- Small 2 x AA Cell AM/FM/Shortwave radio
- Black vivid or sharpie (many uses - including writing medical information on injured people)
- Duck tape on an old plastic card
- Small Snacks
- 2 x Large Garbage Bags (Several uses)
- Quality Fold up High Vis Vest
- Several Pairs of Nitrale Gloves
- Quality Multitool
- Several heavy duty long cable ties
- Quality Medium Folding serrated Knife
- Quality Medium Plain Edge Knife
- Watch cap/beanie
- Map of the area
- Spare lamps for M3 & M3T
- Two way radio (Other to be left with person/s)

*Other/General Items*

- 2 x Pelican 1020 case with 24 Quality CR123A's
- 12 x D Cell Quality/reliable Alkaline batteries still in their packaging (they last a lot longer in their packaging)
- 24 x AA Cell Quality/reliable Alkaline batteries still in their packaging
- 12 x AA Cell Quality/reliable Lithium batteries still in their packaging
- 5 Days worth of Food (Gives you two days buffer or if there is more people in with you)
- 7 Days worth of water (You may find that you will drink more than expected)
- 7 Days worth of snacks (They can be used for in between meals)
_It pays to have slightly more than what you need in case of failure/spoilage_
- Several books with a high reread value (ones that you read over an over again because you liked the book)
- Toys etc for the kids (If any)
- Spare blankets (Being cold really makes things miserable - especially when you are woken up in a nice warm bed)
- Spare set of comfortable and durable clothes
- Pair of broken in sturdy boots (I prefer the 8" ones)
- Wet weather gear

Also have a light attached to the wall by the entrance so if need be you can grab that first to find your way.


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## DaveG (Jun 28, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> Don't forget the radio; I noted this one in a previous emergency/survival thread:
> 
> The Sony ICF-B05W
> 
> ...


 Looks good where did you get it?


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## roymail (Jun 28, 2008)

You may want to pick up a couple of these (SMJLED PR base) and use them with standard 2C or 2D lights. They provide a nice beam and at least 10 lumens of useful light while sipping forever on those batteries.

They'll run a long time on batteries that won't run anything else. :candle:


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## Mdinana (Jun 28, 2008)

Aluminous said:


> Not necessarily... They'll be good for 10+ years in optimum storage conditions at a steady 60 degrees F, but under average conditions it's said they should probably only be counted on for 3 years (but might still be edible longer). Some foods included in MREs don't hold up as well as others, too.
> http://www.mreinfo.com/us/mre/mre-longevity.html
> 
> And it depends on the type of food, as I said... many people prefer to use 'normal' food instead of or in addition to MREs.  Particularly if kids might be involved.
> ...


Technically, you're correct. However, I've had the opportunity (and poor decision-making ability) to try MRE's over 15, maybe close to 20, years old. They were stored in my paren'ts garage, in a cardboard box. And we live in So Cal... not exactly 60 degrees year round. 

Most were pretty good still (relatively speaking). Only 1 of the 4 I ate was actually bad, and even then, most of the side dishes were palatable. The other 3 MREs were fine.


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## Juggernaut (Jun 28, 2008)

Same thing I seem to suggest to every one… A Bigbeam lantern, will light up the who room with 180 degrees of flood while stilling having a very tight 3x3 degree spot beam, one 6 volt alkaline battery will run it for 4.5 days cautiously. And will last for ever in storage.


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## sawlight (Jun 28, 2008)

Again, Alkalines are OUT!!! I don't want ANY of the problems associated with them! And I have had plenty of problems with them!!
Again, this is a small area, wife thinks it's 8' long 5' wide and 5' high. A latern really is over kill. UNLESS it's a small one that will run on lithiums!!
Also remember, these are things I NEVER want to use, but if I need them, I need them right and RIGHT NOW!! I am not willing to risk this on a Mag full of leaking D cells, I have been burnt by that too many times in the past!
It took me a while to go to the side of lithiums, but there is NO WAY I am going to step back in technology! Or have another Mag that I have to throw away because of leaking batteries. AND LEAVES US IN A DARK HOLE!!
Sorry, but I am FIRM on this one!

I am really grooving on the EO1's though, the more I think about it, I thinkone would light up the room easily, and another for looking for food/water/whatever.
And the Pelican cases was another great idea! One case with two EO1's and four spare batteries, then another for a main light and spares.
The "bug out" style bag did not fall on deaf ears, but there really isn't a place to put it handily in our house. I really think it's best to have most of what we need already in there.
Ok, sorry, more ideas?


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jun 28, 2008)

It's great that you got a decent radio. I was going to suggest the Freeplay Eyemax radio (the yellow one). It has an AM/FM/weather band radio with a small built in flashlight. It has a solar panel and a good crank for charging. You wouldn't be able to leave it in the shelter and forget about it (batteries would go dead), but it would have most of the things you need in one unit. Also, you wouldn't have to worry about running out of batteries. I agree with the idea that you should have walkie talkies. I think the best GMRS radios claim a 26 mile range (liscense required though). They would help you keep in touch with family while surveying damage and checking on neighbors. Let's hope you never need to use this stuff.


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## southernlites (Jun 28, 2008)

pak-lite or Eternalight with lithiums


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## enLIGHTenment (Jun 28, 2008)

sawlight said:


> for three days max, in case it's covered in debris.



How much planning effort are you putting into reducing the risk of the door being blocked by debris? You can't necessarily count on rescuers knowing exactly which pile of debris to move so you can get out.


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## pyro (Jun 28, 2008)

First, i am fom Germany, so i know nothing about tornado shelters,
but i think one of the zebralights would work great for this task.


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## Blades (Jun 28, 2008)

I don't know if I would want to spend over $100 on a light that will be sitting, I don't have that type of income.
Two I would recommend:
Glotoob - with a lithium battery(saw them at TAD Gear http://www.tadgear.com/x-treme gear/flashlights main/glotoob_lithium.htm )

Etenalight - with either aaa or aa batteries. http://www.techass.com/el/el1.php

I have a litttle light that snaps onto the top of a 9volt battery that I keep in my B.O.B., something my brother gave me. It is packed up so I can't get to it, but it works ok with the old 9v batteries I take out of the smoke detector. 



Jason


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## Dr Jekell (Jun 28, 2008)

sawlight said:


> And the Pelican cases was another great idea! One case with two EO1's and four spare batteries, then another for a main light and spares.



Lighthound has these in several sizes & he also sells the pick n pluck foam or the battery cut out foam



sawlight said:


> The "bug out" style bag did not fall on deaf ears, but there really isn't a place to put it handily in our house. I really think it's best to have most of what we need already in there.
> Ok, sorry, more ideas?



It was more of a looking around/S&R/Recovery bag than a "bug out" type. I tried to think of items that would be of help in the aftermath of a disaster. You needn't store it in your house (You could forget it on the way to the shelter) perhaps on a shelf inside the shelter or just outside with some form of reminder attached to it.


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## Lit Up (Jun 28, 2008)

sawlight said:


> D cells have their place, but I don't think this is it. I do not want ANYTHING to do with alkaline cells for this situation. It's too easy to get complacent and all you have is a light full of acid. Lithiums are the ONLY power source I will consider!



That is until one leaks and you get stuck in the shelter with its fire and fumes...


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jun 28, 2008)

I know you only want lithium batteries because alkalines leak. You need to consider the fact that if you have to change batteries, dead lithium batteries smell (especially in a small enclosed room). I would suggest Eneloops (charge them up every now and then) or at least bring ziplock bags or a airtight case to put the dead lithiums in.


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## StarHalo (Jun 28, 2008)

DaveG said:


> Looks good where did you get it?



Currently only Sony's own store and J&R carry these (http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_ICFB05W/)


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## sawlight (Jun 29, 2008)

enLIGHTenment said:


> How much planning effort are you putting into reducing the risk of the door being blocked by debris? You can't necessarily count on rescuers knowing exactly which pile of debris to move so you can get out.


 

There is nothing I can realy do to prevent it. My entire house could be picked up and placed on top of the door. Nothing I can do about that. A car could have been turned upside down on the door, nothing I can do about that.
I DO know some of the SAR team members, and I know that EVERYONE gets acounted for, and many family and friends will know where the shelter is.
As for the lithium explosion, seems to me the chance of that is about as great as a D cell blowing up. I hear about the chance of it, but only know of one case that it really happened.


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## chmsam (Jun 29, 2008)

Yes, Eternalights are great for this sort of thing.

I still like my Eveready folding LED lanterns -- small and enough light to read by and do small tasks. They're mobile enough but have a hook built into them if you want to mound/hang one. Best of all about $8 at MallWart, including the batteries.

As for the Mag, if it were the only light, I'd be skeptical too, but a few other lights negate that. It's nice to have something hefty with which you can bash on things (and not necessarily just body parts either -- as in rapping on plumbing pipes to signal that there's someone in there) and also use as a light. A multi-D cell Mag with an LED drop in is still worth thinking about for that and a lot of other reasons, if not for you, then for others on CPF thinking about the same sort of thing.

Sometimes it's only a small object that blocks your way and not the whole lot full from the John Deere factory piled up against the door, but something small blocking the door could still be a big problem if you can't get it to budge. Doesn't have to be a 6' wrecking/pry bar, but a pry would be a must have item in my book.

A whistle is a good thing to have in any emergency kit.

If we were prone to tornadoes in my neck of the woods, I'd concentrate on items to keep comfy for as long as three or four days in the shelter, and also things for first aid, rescue, and warding off what you don't want coming through the door. After that number of days you're looking at long term survival, or being able to keep it together until you can get back on your feet. That's a whole 'nother thing.


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## adamlau (Jun 29, 2008)

The Freeplay EyeMax WB is likely all that you will need. I picked one up just minutes ago. $66.00 shipped from NC to CA is where my EX10 money went.


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## arty (Jun 29, 2008)

I keep a Streamlight twintask 2D because of the long runtime, and useful beam pattern. It comes in a variety of flavors, so you can pick your battery and runtime:
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/streamlight_twintasks.htm
I find the Eveready D cell fluorescent lantern useful while waiting for the Tornados to pass, or during power outages.


----------



## abvidledUK (Jun 29, 2008)

....... and don't forget copies of important documents, especially insurance ones.

Phone numbers and financial (visa & bank) details, there may be no home left behind !!

A wad of cash too.

Water purify tablets...etc


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## DaveG (Jun 29, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> Currently only Sony's own store and J&R carry these (http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_ICFB05W/)


 Thanks for the info.


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## LightWalker (Jun 29, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> Don't forget the radio; I noted this one in a previous emergency/survival thread:
> 
> The Sony ICF-B05W
> 
> ...


 
That's a nice radio, I really like the specs. I just did a Google search on it, very nice. After reading Bible Prophecy and watching the news, I am convinced that it is a good idea to be prepared for very long power outages.


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## DM51 (Jun 29, 2008)

It certainly looks a good radio, but what rechargeable cells does it have? 

It might not be safe to rely on them still working in 10 years time. The crank would still work, but that would not be much use if the cells were dead.


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## Noxonomus (Jun 29, 2008)

4 lithium powered lights came to mind for inside the shelter: 
-Inova X5 run time is excellent its reliable and its useful both inside and out side the shelter
-Inova 24/7 has multiple lighting modes some with very good run time, other useful for signaling and a locater beacon which might be useful if you want to kill the lights for a little while
-Glotoob I don't have one but seems like it would make a nice sturdy low level area light and you can always use it for its original purpose, a locater beacon
-Colman Exponent lantern its small long running and lithium powered, I don't have one of these either but it also has multiple levels and a strobe so could be useful if you need to draw attention to your location for some reason

I think all of them would be pretty good in the shelter, although I don't know how much light the glotoob actually puts out, but the X5 seems potentially the most useful once you are out of the shelter, for things like moving around at night or poking about in spaces that are not well lit. Although I think the other 3 would be better for getting attention or marking locations, the 24/7 for its really really noticeable strobe and the other 2 for 360deg illumination also with strobes. I would probably choose 2 that seem to compliment each other.

And finally if you think you might find your self really wanting to check things out even though its dark outside then you might want something with a little more kick. Personally I wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of money for some thing like this to leave in a shelter, so my thought is one of the low end mag mods. I forget the details but I believe it is 3 CR123A in a 2C mag with sleeve to support them and a bulb from radio shack.


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## baterija (Jun 29, 2008)

Aluminous beat me to it on the shelf life of MRE's, with good reference links. Don't forget that the lifespan begins from the date produced, and stamped on the packaging. Since the MRE market to civilians is secondary, you might not be getting the newest stock when you purchase. 

You also don't want to use any of the MRE heater pouches in an enclosed space like the shelter - they release fumes and nicely flammable hydrogen.

Now back to discussion of lights for yout purpose.


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## StarHalo (Jun 29, 2008)

DM51 said:


> It certainly looks a good radio, but what rechargeable cells does it have?



Probably NiCads that'll be dead in a few years, but the crank is merely a novelty when the runtime off of batteries is over two weeks nonstop. AA or AAA powered radios usually last only 40-50 hours, so this is a significant advantage over other units..



z96Cobra said:


> Coleman makes a Cree lantern (collapsible)





Noxonomus said:


> -Colman Exponent lantern its small long running and lithium powered



I liked the idea of the Coleman Exponent lantern until I saw Stereodude's room-lighting comparison: (images courtesy CPF user Stereodude, see full thread here:https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/193986 )

Fenix L2D CE Q5 with diffuser tip:





Coleman Exponent Cree Pack-Away Lantern:





And everyone who's reviewed the Glo-toob seems to agree it's good as a modest-distance beacon, but not really for area lighting; (image courtesy EDCF user ZenEngineer, see full thread here:http://edcforums.com/index.php?topic=10796.0 )

Glo-Toob Lithium White, 100%


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## GPB (Jun 30, 2008)

My local Target used to carry a Nite Ize LED bulb for a Maglite with 2-6 cells. ( they don't carry it anymore, but Battery Junction does: http://www.batteryjunction.com/lupforcdce.html ). At first I thought I wasted my money because it wasn't very bright and the beam was "ringy". I stuck it in my son's flashlight ( w/2 C batteries ) and it just won't die....he uses it for about 3 hours/night and its been running so long I don't remember when I put batteries in it anymore, but its probably 4 or 5 weeks !! Its brightness is diminished, but it still keeps the boogeyman away, and lets him go down the hall to the bathroom without waking me up. This would be a GREAT light for a shelter situation. You won't be able to signal search planes or anything, but you'll light up the room and go for a walk without ever needing your spare batteries.


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## Noxonomus (Jul 1, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> I liked the idea of the Coleman Exponent lantern until I saw Stereodude's room-lighting comparison: (images courtesy CPF user Stereodude, see full thread here:https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/193986 )
> 
> Fenix L2D CE Q5 with diffuser tip:
> [Snip]
> ...



Well the light is certainly isn't smooth form the lantern but it still looks basically effective to me, the main reason I suggested it is its the only lithium powered lantern that I am aware of, also that appears to be the alkaline version on low, although I have no reason to believe the lithium would be substanialy better.

As for the glo-toob in the dark of the shelter it might not be so bad but it definitely looks to be more on the scale of a night light than I was thinking when I posted that.


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## adamlau (Jul 1, 2008)

No love for the NiMH powered Freeplay EyeMax WB :sigh: ?


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## Marduke (Jul 1, 2008)

As good as Freeplay is, the NiMH pack require routine maintenance. I keep one handy for power outages here in tornado country, and I do a maintenance cycle at the beginning of every tornado/hurricane season.


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## roymail (Jul 1, 2008)

In the picture above of the L2D w/diffuser, do you know what setting the L2D was on when the pic was taken?

I have a feeling it wouldn't run very long at that brightness.


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## OceanView (Jul 1, 2008)

DM51 said:


> It might not be safe to rely on them still working in 10 years time. The crank would still work, but that would not be much use if the cells were dead.


I have a couple Freeplay radios, one quite old and one a bit newer. I consider the old one superior for emergency use because the original Freeplays used a spring-driven mechanism, rather than rechargeable batteries in the newer models. That spring can sit unused for years and still be ready to go. I can't say the same for rechargeable batteries that have just been sitting around for the same length of time.


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## sawlight (Jul 1, 2008)

adamlau said:


> No love for the NiMH powered Freeplay EyeMax WB :sigh: ?


 

Sory, NO!! BUT, I have reasons why! We bought them at work. FM works fine, but in the metal buildings we work in, you have to go outside for the NOAA chanels to come in, I think being five feet in the ground, under a garage, under concrete, I might do good to get FM to come in.
Not tha I don't like them, I just don't like them for the aplications I have used them in.


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## StarHalo (Jul 1, 2008)

roymail said:


> In the picture above of the L2D w/diffuser, do you know what setting the L2D was on when the pic was taken?



Both the Fenix and the lantern are on their highest setting; the lantern will go about five hours and the Fenix half that. However the Coleman has only one "low" setting, which lasts 12 hours, the Fenix has three lower settings that will last 6.5, 16.5, and *86* hours respectively.


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## Lee1959 (Jul 1, 2008)

I have spent more than my share of time in tornado shelters, basements normally but my parents had a big "root" cellar we normally used, over the years. When I was young, my dad had the requisite chrome Eveready which was dim from the time it was turned on and seldom lasted more than a short while. Luckily little actual time is normaly spent in the shelter. Especially these days where warning times and new radars have improved forcasting. 

Last time I was in the shelter, read basement, as few have a dedicated building/shelter strictly for storms it was for about 2 hours total. And the only reason it was that long was my nieces were over and they were nervous, so we went downstairs. Pulled out the campcots, the sleeiong bags and the kids laid down to nap. When we did lose power for a short bit my X5 in a glass worked fine while the kids were asleep. I have lanterns but really did not bother breaking them out as it seemed a waste of batteries for a short time. If the kids were up and wanting to play games then I would have. 

You may want more powerful lights for afterwards if there may be search and rescue involved, but you need little to light up a smallish area. A radio is a must have item as is water, snacks perhaps, games, "portapotty" is nice to have under extended circumstances (even if it is simply a pail).

Anything more than that gets into and under the list of full blown emergency supplies which are a whole other topic.


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## Sinjz (Jul 1, 2008)

I think you should use 'D' cell alkalines cause they have a lot of capacity.  Just kidding!  I just find it funny how people won't read your requirements when they throw out suggestions.  That's how most of these suggestion threads are like now. :shakehead: I recently read one where the guy wanted a light big enough that it won't easily get lost. First few suggestions were AAA sized lights. 

Anyway, have you looked at the Splashlights for your in shelter use?

http://www.tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=2108
http://www.tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=3064

You'll need something more powerful for surveying damage though.

Maybe a G2 w/ one of those multi-mode drop-ins.


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## sawlight (Jul 1, 2008)

Sinjz said:


> I think you should use 'D' cell alkalines cause they have a lot of capacity.  Just kidding!  I just find it funny how people won't read your requirements when they throw out suggestions.  That's how most of these suggestion threads are like now. :shakehead: I recently read one where the guy wanted a light big enough that it won't easily get lost. First few suggestions were AAA sized lights.
> 
> Anyway, have you looked at the Splashlights for your in shelter use?
> 
> ...


 

Neat lights! But for the money, the E01 beats them (WITH lithium cells)
I was actually looking at Lighthound the other day and found these:
http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3561

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3566

I must say, I am intruged!


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## Marduke (Jul 1, 2008)

sawlight said:


> Neat lights! But for the money, the E01 beats them (WITH lithium cells)
> I was actually looking at Lighthound the other day and found these:
> http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3561
> 
> ...



You can get that light pre-assembled for a bit less
http://www.dealextreme.com/search.dx/search.solarforce

Personally, I think there are nicer lights for the price.


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## sawlight (Jul 1, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Personally, I think there are nicer lights for the price.


 
Please "enlighten" me:naughty:


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## Sinjz (Jul 1, 2008)

sawlight said:


> Neat lights! But for the money, the E01 beats them (WITH lithium cells)
> I was actually looking at Lighthound the other day and found these:
> http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3561
> 
> ...



But a CR123 packs a lot more power! 

I think the SolarForce is just another G2/6P clone. The Multi-mode drop-in may be just what you are looking for. :thumbsup:


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## Blades (Jul 5, 2008)

I would also add a few chem lights. No fumes, no batteries, different colors and run times. Don't take up much room, and to keep them fresh-- rotate them out at halloween every few years. 
Just an idea.


Jason


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## Lit Up (Jul 5, 2008)

abvidledUK said:


> ....... and don't forget copies of important documents, especially insurance ones.
> 
> Phone numbers and financial (visa & bank) details, there may be no home left behind !!
> 
> A wad of cash too.



True indeed. Best to store it in one of these.






Can be found easily enough for 20-30ish at Wal-Mart.


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## fleegs (Jul 6, 2008)

SubUmbra ( I think that is the user name) who spent the entire time living through Katrina recommended 9-volt Pak-Lites. They have two brightness levels and run for 1200 hours on low (lithium). Low is plenty with dark adapted eyes. You can also use alkalines (I know you are against this) but leaking is slim and if they do leak, I doubt they will leak up against gravity to hurt the body of the light (the light snaps onto 9 volt batt). I got these after Sub's recommendation and have used them for power outages to light the entire house. Plus they come color LEDs too. Sub also really liked the CMG Infinity (bought out by Gerber). I am not has big a fan but they are useful.


Now if were to me, I would pick the Zebralight headlamps (I don't think these were available back then). With the accesories they can be clipped, hung from the neck or used as a headlamp. Two of these in the shelter would meet all your needs. Combine these with two pak-lites and you have weeks of light.


One thing I did not see you mentioned that you owned was a portable TV. I think Sub said that is one thing he would add for the next time. I have found radio to be OK but a portable TV to really be able to get me the news I need during an emergency. This may be what ones needs to determine what to do next after getting out of the shelter (e.g., will help come in one day? Or many weeks?).


Good luck.

Rob


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## sawlight (Jul 6, 2008)

I like the Pak light sugestion. But I think the light sticks would be just as efective? And no batteries to worry about.
The portable TV is a thought, but with advent of HD being shoved down our throats, will it even work?
In theory, the longest we should be in the shelter is a matter of hours, the SAR's and emergency managment really do have this down to a timely and effecient manner. And we are no talking the large area of devastation a Hurricane can produce either. So my three days of preparness is way overkill for this.


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## Blades (Jul 6, 2008)

sawlight said:


> So my three days of preparness is way overkill for this.




Hopefully.



Jason


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## Lee1959 (Jul 6, 2008)

I would not worry overmuch about a TV, a good radio is much better for local reports. As far as entertainment, some board games and cards work much better and cheaper, plus have the advantage of family interaction. 

As I noted, some form of "toilet" is beneficial as children especially, have trouble "holding it" and it is nice not to have to actually. You can get toilet seats for 5 gallon pails, that and a shower curtain for privacy for those shy family members, especially young girls, can make a huge difference in comfort and being able to sit it out.


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## StarHalo (Jul 6, 2008)

sawlight said:


> But I think the light sticks would be just as efective?



I tried using a Cyalume/similar glowstick in a nightime power outage many years ago, and while it was bright enough to read by when held close to the page, and otherwise entertaining to toy with, it was by no means enough light to navigate with even with fully dark adjusted eyes. 

Keep the light sticks as markers/beacons, and to entertain the kids, but you'll need something more powerful to walk around or light a small area.


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## Lit Up (Jul 6, 2008)

sawlight said:


> Sory, NO!! BUT, I have reasons why! We bought them at work. FM works fine, but in the metal buildings we work in, you have to go outside for the NOAA chanels to come in, I think being five feet in the ground, under a garage, under concrete, I might do good to get FM to come in.
> Not tha I don't like them, I just don't like them for the aplications I have used them in.



Get something that will take an external antenna or clip a wire to the whip antenna and run the wire outside of the door somewhere. Don't think that you might do good to have FM come in inside the shelter - know for certain beforehand. A radio is mucho important. When everything is down, boredom sets in real quick.


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## Lit Up (Jul 6, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> I tried using a Cyalume/similar glowstick in a nightime power outage many years ago, and while it was bright enough to read by when held close to the page, and otherwise entertaining to toy with, it was by no means enough light to navigate with even with fully dark adjusted eyes.
> 
> Keep the light sticks as markers/beacons, and to entertain the kids, but you'll need something more powerful to walk around or light a small area.



Yeah, about the only thing outside of markers I saw them used much for was wearing at skating rinks for visual effect. Not a fan of them for general lighting.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jul 6, 2008)

sawlight said:


> I like the Pak light sugestion. But I think the light sticks would be just as efective? And no batteries to worry about.
> The portable TV is a thought, but with advent of HD being shoved down our throats, will it even work?
> In theory, the longest we should be in the shelter is a matter of hours, the SAR's and emergency managment really do have this down to a timely and effecient manner. And we are no talking the large area of devastation a Hurricane can produce either. So my three days of preparness is way overkill for this.



You're right about the TV. After February of 2009, it won't work. Only digital signals will be broadcasted. Personally, I think it's a mistake to get rid of the fastest way to broadcast emergency information so cable and satelite companies can make more money. After all, a picture is worth a thousand words. You won't want to bother buying a portable T.V. It won't work next tornado season. A good radio will be a better option and will last much longer on a set of batteries for extended stays in the shelter. A radio using disposable batteries is really your only option unless you take the time to charge the rechargeable batteries or put one with a solar panel in the sun about once a month. That is unless someone makes one that uses Eneloops or you mod one to use them. By any chance, has anyone here ever modded a Freeplay radio to run on Eneloops? That would be your best option if it were made. A rechargeble AM/FM/WB radio/l.e.d. flashlight with 2 year shelf life per charge with crank/solar power/A.C. charging.


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## sawlight (Jul 6, 2008)

Blades said:


> Hopefully.
> 
> 
> 
> Jason


 

Right!!

Thank you for backing that up Hooked on Fenix, about what I thought!

Again, this is an area of 12'x4.5'x5', not much to really light up, when it's all the light you have.


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## Stereodude (Jul 6, 2008)

roymail said:


> In the picture above of the L2D w/diffuser, do you know what setting the L2D was on when the pic was taken?
> 
> I have a feeling it wouldn't run very long at that brightness.


The picture was taken on Turbo, so you're correct the runtime wouldn't be as long as some of the others in my great big comparo thread.

However, the L2D is perfectly usable on low with the diffuser in complete darkness though it won't necessary light up a room.


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## theforester (Jul 7, 2008)

Both of these have already been suggested, but I think that a zebralight H50 and Fenix L2D combo would be something to think about. Batteries could be interchanged and you would have the option of any battery chemistry you want. :thinking: The zebralight would work well as an area light in the shelter and would also free up both hands if you had to dig through rubble to get to someone. Just a thought. 

Good Luck with the shelter :thumbsup:

Zeb


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## wjb3 (Jul 7, 2008)

*deleted*


TOS violation, deleted


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## Lee1959 (Jul 7, 2008)

wjb3 said:


> _*[quoted reference removed]*_ recommend keeping a supply of food for emergencies, job loss, etc.
> 
> -WJB3


 
This is the type of thing that is unacceptable in a thread on CPF at least in my opinion. There is absolutely no call to denigrate ANY religion/race/or any other group of people in a thread. Absolutely uncalled for, and classless and highly insulting to at least someone here.


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## Martin (Jul 7, 2008)

When having to stay in the shelter for a longer time, you are not going to sit still for hours. Why not keep a pedal generator in the shelter ? With 50W available, you will not take long to fill up a whole bank of rechargeable batteries. And the generator will not go bad from sitting around unused.


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## sawlight (Jul 7, 2008)

Martin said:


> When having to stay in the shelter for a longer time, you are not going to sit still for hours. Why not keep a pedal generator in the shelter ? With 50W available, you will not take long to fill up a whole bank of rechargeable batteries. And the generator will not go bad from sitting around unused.


 

That looked neat, UNTIL I saw the $550 price tag:mecry:


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## Martin (Jul 8, 2008)

sawlight said:


> That looked neat, UNTIL I saw the $550 price tag:mecry:


Don't worry about this, the selling price is the maximum they get away with, has nothing to do with the actual material cost.
I just picked this one as an example of how it could look.
If a pedal generator is sold on EBAY or on the flea market, it most likely goes for much less.
You'll find tons of DIY solutions on the web, here they were doing it from scrap parts.
If you can fix something up that relies on an old bicycle and this bike can remain ridable (possibly just swap the real wheel for a generator), then you'll have a backup transport solution on top of the electricity. Well, the 5' ceiling might be an issue if you wanted to sit on the saddle.


----------



## adamlau (Jul 8, 2008)

adamlau said:


> The Freeplay EyeMax WB is likely all that you will need. I picked one up just minutes ago. $66.00 shipped from NC to CA is where my EX10 money went.


Arrived today, money well spent as I fully expect to have an updated model in hand by the time issues arise with the NiMH pack. This is my seventh FreePlay device overall and the third this year alone. I am used to charging this and charging that around the house, monthly maintenance has long become a routine deal. In any event, thanks to the OP for prompting this latest Freeplay purchase of mine :twothumbs .


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## chuck4570 (Jul 8, 2008)

+1 for Lee1959, no one should have to put up with insults in this forum.

Chuck



Lee1959 said:


> This is the type of thing that is unacceptable in a thread on CPF at least in my opinion. There is absolutely no call to denigrate ANY religion/race/or any other group of people in a thread. Absolutely uncalled for, and classless and highly insulting to at least someone here.


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## DM51 (Jul 8, 2008)

wjb3, you have come within a whisker of being banned for that insulting and disrespectful remark, which I have removed from your post. 

You are warned that any recurrence of such behaviour by you will result in your posting privileges being withdrawn.


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## sawlight (Jul 8, 2008)

The new nightcore lights have caught my eye now. I know, I know, everyone is on the bandwagon. But for the price and versatility it's worth a look! I just wonder about the durability and if it would function after sitting months at a time!
It's geting closer! They will be here, weather permitting, a week from Friday to install it. It's very close ot time to order gear to stock it.
As of now, I have decided on a Fenix EO1 with spare batteries/Pelican case, a half dozen to a dozen calum light sticks, a dozen MRE's stored in an ammo can and a case of bottled water.
I still need a main light that can sit and will still work after long periods of time, with some versatility to it.

I could build the hand generator from a bicycle crank, a one wire alternator and an inverter, but why? Really, if we are in there more than three hours something went horribly wrong. With what I am stocking it is WAY overkill. I would just rather be a bit safe than sorry.


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## HKJ (Jul 8, 2008)

sawlight said:


> The new nightcore lights have caught my eye now. I know, I know, everyone is on the bandwagon. But for the price and versatility it's worth a look! I just wonder about the durability and if it would function after sitting months at a time!



Just remember to twist it off, then it will not draw any standby current.


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## sawlight (Jul 26, 2008)

Wel I think my shopping has ended. My wife found this and bought it: http://www.quakekare.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=13

I ordered two Fenix EO1's las night, one for keychain duty, one for the shelter. I also scored a Lumapower M3 transformer with turbohead off of marketplace last night. Gives me LOTS of options in a small package.
I figure four lithium AAA's, four lithium AA's and four CR123A's.
The EO1 should provide ample light in the shelter and we now have a total of eight twelve hour light sticks, and the M3 for everything else that might come up. Sound reasonable to everyone else?


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## sawlight (Jul 26, 2008)

No one???

Am I missing something?


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## zipplet (Jul 27, 2008)

The E01 is a great low brightness long run time light. I'd recommend getting possibly a couple more of them rather than chemical light sticks - as chemical sticks dim quickly and are not economical. Also chemical light sticks infact do have a shelf life, some of the ones I've bought from ebay had a 2-3 year shelf life.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 27, 2008)

sawlight said:


> No one???
> 
> Am I missing something?


 
Good for you it seems like you have all the bases covered now “well for at least 3 days” good deal she found:twothumbs.


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## Jaygnar (Jul 27, 2008)

sawlight said:


> There is nothing I can realy do to prevent it. My entire house could be picked up and placed on top of the door. Nothing I can do about that. A car could have been turned upside down on the door, nothing I can do about that.
> I DO know some of the SAR team members, and I know that EVERYONE gets acounted for, and many family and friends will know where the shelter is.


 

You can get a 20 ton car jack with a section of I beam (or other similar setup). That should take care of getting the door open. Also if you can,make sure you have at least two exits and some sort of reliable ventilation. Tornadoes don't last all that long. You can have food and water of course to be comfortable and safe but getting out once the storm blows over is a Major Consideration. Also, drainage is important as flooding may occur due to ruptured water lines and sewer leaks and so forth. As for lights, I'd go with PAklite on lithiums.


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## sawlight (Jul 27, 2008)

The lightsticks are there just in case. With four batteries for the EO1 and the M3 already setup, battery changes should be easy. No real need for redundancy.




Jaygnar said:


> You can get a 20 ton car jack with a section of I beam (or other similar setup). That should take care of getting the door open. Also if you can,make sure you have at least two exits and some sort of reliable ventilation. Tornadoes don't last all that long. You can have food and water of course to be comfortable and safe but getting out once the storm blows over is a Major Consideration. Also, drainage is important as flooding may occur due to ruptured water lines and sewer leaks and so forth. As for lights, I'd go with PAklite on lithiums.


 
This door slides on rollers, no way to jack it really. And with the limited space a chunck of I-beam isnt practical at all.
There is plenty on ventelation built in, and as typical, there is only one way in, and ONE WAY OUT!!

No drainage issues, it's desinged to drain away from the floor, and it's installed in the garage floor.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 27, 2008)

sawlight said:


> The lightsticks are there just in case. With four batteries for the EO1 and the M3 already setup, battery changes should be easy. No real need for redundancy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
In truth there isn’t just one way out, Humans are quite crafty and determined. Instead of worrying about getting the door open if something happens to it, all you need is a small sledge hammer and foldable shovel. That way I’m sure if you were stuck you could break the walls and dig up to safety in less then the 3 day’s of food and water you have available.


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## sawlight (Jul 27, 2008)

Juggernaut said:


> In truth there isn’t just one way out, Humans are quite crafty and determined. Instead of worrying about getting the door open if something happens to it, all you need is a small sledge hammer and foldable shovel. That way I’m sure if you were stuck you could break the walls and dig up to safety in less then the 3 day’s of food and water you have available.


 

As you have obviously not read anything in this thread, and seem unaware as to how it is built.
I will not reply in a fitting manner.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 28, 2008)

sawlight said:


> As you have obviously not read anything in this thread, and seem unaware as to how it is built.
> I will not reply in a fitting manner.


 
Sorry man it was supposed to be a light hearted joke, I’ve read every line of this thread. Besides being 8' long 4.5' wide and 5' high, having a roller door. There’s not much else you say, than in post 92 you state “a week from Friday to install it” Install what you don’t specify, so I would guess the shelter, thus it must be some sort of one piece design perhaps made of fiberglass or maybe steel, though it would be quite overkill to be made of metal when it’s going to be feet underground. Obviously if it were one of these two thing it would be very difficult, if not impossible to do as I said. That is unless it was just a simple cinderblock construction close to the surface “which it doesn’t seem to be” I was really making that statement to highlight the fact that it would be a good idea to have such a backup plan if that type of shelter was the kind a given person was occupying that they could break free from.


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## sawlight (Jul 28, 2008)

My bad, it was a rough weekend!!!
You are correct in youre assumption, it is a pre-fab 1/4" steel box, under six inches of concrete! They said the box weighs 1500#'s!
One way in, and one way out! Maybe a cutting torch and a pickaxe, but...................

Yes, it's overkill, but with a lifetime transferable waranty


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## Juggernaut (Jul 28, 2008)

sawlight said:


> My bad, it was a rough weekend!!!
> You are correct in youre assumption, it is a pre-fab 1/4" steel box, under six inches of concrete! They said the box weighs 1500#'s!
> One way in, and one way out! Maybe a cutting torch and a pickaxe, but...................
> 
> Yes, it's overkill, but with a lifetime transferable waranty


 
Holy sh#@ are you serious, WOW I’m so jealous! That thing could withstand a nuke! “well from a few miles away” ¼ steel, that would withstand almost anything. Superman couldn’t break out of that with a sledge hammer:duh2:! You said transferable lifetime warranty, well I hope so it would last forever. If a category 6 tornado sat on top of you for 3 days it wouldn’t bother you. Man your right when you say there is only one way in or out.


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## sawlight (Jul 28, 2008)

The lids are rated at 6000#'s, yeah, it's my own personal tank/coffin!

Here is the link:http://www.smartsafeshelters.com/

I thought I had added this, sorry.


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## horizonseeker (Jul 29, 2008)

how do you get out if the debri is on top of the box?


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## sawlight (Jul 29, 2008)

horizonseeker said:


> how do you get out if the debri is on top of the box?


 

That is a GREAT question......................................



















That I hope I never have to answer.


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## Juggernaut (Jul 29, 2008)

sawlight said:


> That is a GREAT question......................................
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Is yours being installed in your garage like in the video, because if it is and you parked a car on it at least if the car stays put and things fall on the car you should still be able to crawl out underneath it, most cars have enough clearance I think. Well at least a truck would. Well it would suck if the tire of the car was moved on to the lid though:thumbsdow.


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## sawlight (Jul 29, 2008)

Juggernaut said:


> Is yours being installed in your garage like in the video, because if it is and you parked a car on it at least if the car stays put and things fall on the car you should still be able to crawl out underneath it, most cars have enough clearance I think. Well at least a truck would. Well it would suck if the tire of the car was moved on to the lid though:thumbsdow.


 

Mine IS installed just like the one in the video. My problem, not being the typical customer, I can not ussually fit a car in my garage with all of my projects and tools!
But yes, that is the idea, the ca catches the debris. But in a typical scenario with a direct hit, the foundation would be the only thing left of my house!


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## horizonseeker (Jul 30, 2008)

i was talking to another guy in my class last night and was reminded that in a tornado, having stuff piled on the shelter is probably not a big concern as the whole house is likely to be ripped up and set down some miles away. I guess I'm more used to earthquake here in LA.


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## DM51 (Jul 31, 2008)

horizonseeker said:


> i was talking to another guy in my class last night and was reminded that in a tornado, having stuff piled on the shelter is probably not a big concern as the whole house is likely to be ripped up and set down some miles away.


Maybe, but what about some other house being ripped up and set down on top of where yours used to be?


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## Gatsby (Jul 31, 2008)

I spend a fair amount of time thinking about emergency preparedness - part out of necessity as I don't live on the coast but hurricanes are still a threat where we are (Bertha and Fran both hit Charlotte pretty badly), as well as frequent ice storms (see Quickbeam's ice storm report from Charlotte a few years back), and the area has infrequent tornados. 

The risk of tornadoes is low enough that I am not likely to build a shelter in this zone. But the risk of several days without power is fairly high. So I have worked slowly to build up supplies - I have a gas grill and always have an extra propane tank available; I have a wood burning fireplace and wood to put in it; space heaters and a generator to run one or two of them, not to mention the fridge; and additional stores of water (most critical really - we can go awhile with little food but H2O is not negotiable) and dry goods; first aid; etc...

And of course lights. We have different needs but while hurricanes and ice storms don't pass in minutes, they don't usually last days either, and all of them can knock out power, etc... for days. Sounds like you've got it covered but I just picked up another Energizer 4AA LED folding lantern and they are really, really great in an emergency. Using lithiums they've got a long shelf life, 120+ hours of runtime on low, and do a nice job lighting up a big area. I might get a Safe Light or Pak Light or two for other navigation needs, but the two folding lanterns can be placed strategically upstairs and down for navigation. I'm still looking for a reasonable headlight - in the interim I have one of those LLBean LED baseball caps that works OK in a pinch, and the Rayovac sportsman 1watts are on sale but only run 2-3 hours on white and I'm not sure I want to always see the world in red or blue... Anyway - while it is good to have a few low output lights for working around the house and a good high power thrower to inspect damage, etc... I've found that what I most missed was a headlamp and what I most used were area lights - the 4AA lanterns really pay off in an emergency even moreso than flashlights.


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## SafetyBob (Jul 31, 2008)

My suggestion is get a 4 D [email protected], put a good old Seoul P4 in it (mainly for the white lighte vs. the much more blue tinted Crees), and then after gluing the LED to H22A's heatsink, wire up a MircroPuck SHO which puts out 500mA. This does not involve much skill, so it is a very doable project. 

You are going to run it as a buck driver so it will be very efficient and it should last at least 72 hours, actually more, I didn't want to contend with leaking alkalines just to find out exactly how long. At 72 hours, you will still be able to read in the dark easily. 

In your shelter I would keep a new package of 4 alkalines (get quality ones, not the cheap ones) and replace it every January 1st or you pick the date. I have made a few of these lights now for the "ordinary" citizen lately and so far they have been idiot proof. I tell them EVERY January 1, put new batteries in your flashlight. Oh, and keep a spare set around two.

So far no complaints, just complements.

Bob E.


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## sawlight (Aug 1, 2008)

Well SafetyBob, I wont use alkalines for ANY amount o storage time anymore!! Lithiums or nothing!!
And I have little to no use for the Mags, led or not!

So far far I am very happy with the choices I have made. The Fenix Is a LOT blue, but brighter than I had expected.
The Lumapower Transformer, WOW is that a versitale light! I am VERY happy with the tint, and outputs from this light. Just a hair whiter and brighter than my Novatac and about the same beam shape, then the turbohead creates a whole new light!!! For an "all in one if you have nothig left" light, this is a nice option!!

I still love my Novatac, and it's not for sale


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## Timothybil (Aug 2, 2008)

Dr Jekell said:


> Why not have something like this:
> 
> *Area lighting*
> 
> ...




All in all, a pretty good list.

I used to do this for a living in the corporate world, so I will pass on a few things most people forget...
- Kleenex or paper towels
- Wet wipes - standard pop-up type container is good, but include a few individual wrapped as well
- Some sort of SEALABLE container for sanitary purposes
- A roll or two of TP for above
- personal sanitary supplies for the females in our lives. Also a means of disposal for same

Add a couple of those emergency space blankets - good for shock as well as just extra comfort.

Two other very important items. Let the local fire/rescue people know where your shelter is and how to access it. Makes it easier for them to look for you if they have an idea of where you planned to be. Also, a loud noisemaker of some sort to gather attention if you happen to be trapped and unable to exit. (Depending on the volume, etc., you might want to get a bunch of those soft plug hearing protectors for the occupants so you don't destroy their hearing while calling for help.

Also, check your ventilation. That will be a relatively small space, and it would be very nice to have a couple of vents that would survive to allow the air to be refreshed while you are waiting. Maybe a hand-crank or battery operated fan to help out would also be nice.


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## sawlight (Aug 3, 2008)

Timothybil said:


> All in all, a pretty good list.
> 
> I used to do this for a living in the corporate world, so I will pass on a few things most people forget...
> - Kleenex or paper towels
> ...


 

Again, if you look at the items in this kit: http://www.quakekare.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=13

Most is already in there. The battery fans, well, I have been less than impressed with them, and the take up space. I am looking at this as minimlistic as I can.
Ear plugs and safety gogles hae been recomended, and will be in there.
Magnetic letters where a suggestion we were given by the instlation crew. It will entertain the young one. But they take up no space.
Again, really three hours should be max. Three days is if all hell breaks loose!

Now DM51, oddly enough, the debris from a large twister is usualy dropped in another county. Cars/trucks etc. will stay close. But it's a rather random pattern of destruction/disposal with the large ones.


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## Jaygnar (Aug 3, 2008)

Okay, I see what you meant by sliding door. (The pictures were worth 1000 words. I am surprised that the door doesn't have some sort of hydraulic assist or something. I realize that it's just my personal opinion but if I had one of those I would have to work in some kind of solution for 100% certain escape. (I'm just that way.) 
Anyway, you could always just leave the door cracked unless the house seemed like it was really getting pummeled and at that point I guess you just gotta see what happens. 
Good luck with your new shelter and I hope that you never have to use it.(Unless you just wanna for fun!):naughty:


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## watt4 (Aug 3, 2008)

http://www.tek-tite.com/src/product_info.php?id=19


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## Lee1959 (Aug 3, 2008)

horizonseeker said:


> i was talking to another guy in my class last night and was reminded that in a tornado, having stuff piled on the shelter is probably not a big concern as the whole house is likely to be ripped up and set down some miles away. I guess I'm more used to earthquake here in LA.


 

Chances of the house getting set back down ANYWHERE is highly unlikely. If it gets ripped off its foundation, chances are strong it will be scattered over the next mile or however far the tornado goes before it disappates. Usually everything just gets torn to shreds and added to the debris in the cone not nicely picked up and deposited elsewhere. 

My cousins mobile home did come closest to this as it was moved off its pilings several feet.


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## brucec (Aug 3, 2008)

sawlight said:


> So I want to stock it with things I think three, maybe five, people would need for three days max...the dimensions are 8' long 4.5' wide and 5' high



Oh man, 5 people for 3 days in 36sqft of space not high enough to stand upright? That's the kind of space we are talking about in a lifeboat. I would keep stuff to a bare minimum. As in marine lifeboat minimum. How about marine rations and water? That stuff will last in non-ideal conditions and would generate less garbage (and human waste!) than MREs. I think 15 man-days of food would only be about 1 cubic foot.

As for lights, you can't go wrong with the L2D, L1D, P2D. If you are really worried about reliable light, you can get some tritium vials as backup, those are good for decades. Seriously, I can read with the glow from my Luminox watch in cave darkness conditions.

Bruce


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## sawlight (Aug 3, 2008)

Yeah, the "energy bars" in the kit are USCGA approved.

Well, beyond my better judgement, and wishes, my wife picked out a battery powered fan.
Frickin eight D batteries!!! She swears she will keep up on them, we'll see!


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## Lee1959 (Aug 3, 2008)

I picked twice a year, the days the clocks change to change all of the alkaline batteries that are stored with things that sit a lot but get used little. I then use the batteries together as they were in things that get used a lot.


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