# KL6 with SSC P4 - throw monster!



## dcjs (Jan 27, 2007)

ladies and gentlemen,

I've been wondering why there hasn't even been talk of someone entertaining the idea of putting a seoul P4 in a surefire KL6 head. there have been some XR-E mods done to the KL6, with relatively good success regarding throw, but still, the narrow viewing angle of the cree lets many of those precious photons escape from the head without being packed into the throw portion of the beam.
considering this, I thought it would be a good idea to use a SSC P4 instead of the cree. so that is what I did.

 the result was freaking shock and awe on my part!  :bow: 

I will not elaborate on the how-to tonight, (it is alsmost 3 o'clock in the night here..), let me just say that according to my first impressions this thing throws as far as I care to look with the naked eye. take your surefire E2L and look what it can light up at 40 meters. the KL6 SSC P4 will do the same at 120 meters. no poop.

beamshots below show a comparison between the KL6 SSC P4 (*upper* row) and the stock KL6 (*bottom *row) [edited, thanks KDOG3], with the brightness reduced by 100% (left), no modification (middle) and brightness reduced by 50% (right). scientifically these beamshots could be considered worthless, since my stoneage digital camera does not permit manual settings, but the pictures pretty much show the perceived relative brightness.







regards,

david


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## EngrPaul (Jan 27, 2007)

These Seoul's are fantastic upgrades. Glad to hear it works in a KL6 too!


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## wquiles (Jan 27, 2007)

Yes indeed, great throw from the Seoul. I have two Turbo LED modules for the KT4 head, one with the Cree and one with Seoul, and the Seoul kicks but in the throw department 

Turbo LED Module with Cree: link 

Turbo LED Module with Seoul: link 


Will


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 27, 2007)

My CM Cree modded KL6 (Iamp to led) seems to be doing ok in the lux department. Just rechecked lux with LM and got 7200 lux at one meter. Has good sidespill also, not just a "pointy" beam. I could see a Seoul putting out better lux, considering the beam profile. Prior to modding to Cree, my KL6 with a good WWOS put out 2400 lux at 850mA's to led, not really great.

Bill


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## KDOG3 (Jan 28, 2007)

Are you sure the stock KL6 is the upper row? Cuz to my eyes the top row is smokin' the bottom row...


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## boef800 (Jan 28, 2007)

I was thinking the same:thinking:...


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## ICUDoc (Jan 28, 2007)

I have the parts for this mod en route to me now- I would love to see your how-to! Thanks!


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## dcjs (Jan 28, 2007)

KDOG3 said:


> Are you sure the stock KL6 is the upper row? Cuz to my eyes the top row is smokin' the bottom row...



the modded one is the upper row of course.. 
did I mention it was late at night when I posted? 

I just measured current to the emitter (690mA) and voltage parallel to the LED (3.2V). when comparing this to newbies graphs, this seems to be very low voltage for that current level. 690mA also seems a bit low, but I wasn't able to find much information about stock current of the KL6 anyway. Bullzeyebill, did you measure those 850mA with the stock driver? 
I don't know wether this could be an explanation, but shortly after taking this measurement the protected batteries were empty and shut down. since these batteries in my E2L used to shut down before the driver dropped out of regulation, this in theory should not have any impact on the measurement though. anyway, I'll do another measurement on freshly charged batteries just to be sure.

more on the how-to later.



regards,


david


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## dcjs (Jan 28, 2007)

good evening,

now a few words about the procedure of "seouling" the KL6. 
the heatsink/driver is easily removed and re-installed, since it ist only held in place by three little screws. with the gutted reflector, I was able to determine wether the SSC LED would provide a good beam prior to permanently changing anything. I had previously put an SSC P4 in a fenix L0P, so with the bezel/reflector removed, I put that LED into the reflector of the KL6 to determine wether it would provide a usable beam. and sure it did! :naughty: 
I did not change anything on the reflector and I suspect that removing just a little bit of material to push the led further into the reflector might give an even better beam, but it is already great the way it is, so I just left it that way. in order to put the LED into focus (or very near focus) while using the stock heatsink, I had to put a shim under the slug to raise the LED to the point where it touches the reflector. the correct thickness for this shim turned out to be 0,2mm, and luckily I had phosphor bronze sheet spring material of that thickness. with this shim, the LED housing is pressed firmly against the back of the reflector when the heatsink is installed. people have advised against putting pressure on the led housing due to the isolation issues with the positive slug, but as far as I can see, the heatsink of the KL6 is not part of the electrical circuit anyway. if you remove material from the back of the reflector, you won't have to worry about this at all, but for me it works the way it is.
so basically I just removed the LuxV LED, made a 0,2mm shim, glued it into the heatsink with AA and glued the seoul emitter on top. against the often given good advice not to do so I did apply pressure on the emitter housing while it was curing in order to keep the AA layer thin for good heat transfer to the heatsink. (if you want to be sure about electrical insulation, you can glue the shim onto the slug of the emitter first and check for insulation.) afterwards I soldered the driver wires back in place and screwed the driver/heatsink unit back into the reflector. that's about it, no black magic involved. 
I'm still stunned by the output, it has good flood and a tight hotspot with impressive throw. although the hotspot is very tight (not everyone may like this, it is quite different from the stock KL6 beam pattern), the transition from hotspot to spill beam is really smooth, without any kind of rings or other obstructions. when you look at the beamshots with reduced brightness, you will notice that the hotspot of the "seouled" beam isn't actually smaller, there just is this immensely bright center portion that makes the rest of the beam look dimmer in comparison. the truth is that even the spill is considerably brighter than the stock KL6's. 
taking into account that at the same time power consumption is about cut in half, I consider this mod a success. 



regards,

david


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## DaFABRICATA (Jan 29, 2007)

Do you know how close the KL6 is to the KL5? Are they basically the same with different housings or are the internals different? I have a SSC p4 and want to possibly do this upgrade. The stock emitter is very purple and more output with longer runtimes would be great. Any help?


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## dcjs (Feb 4, 2007)

DaFABRICATA said:


> Do you know how close the KL6 is to the KL5? Are they basically the same with different housings or are the internals different? I have a SSC p4 and want to possibly do this upgrade. The stock emitter is very purple and more output with longer runtimes would be great. Any help?



hi,

I don't know from first hand experience, I've just read here that the KL5 has a boost circuit that provides <6V to the LED =>will fry the SSC-LED. :thumbsdow
you would probably have to install a new driver, too.

regards,

david


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## DaFABRICATA (Feb 4, 2007)

DAMN!! Oh well.......
I ended up using it on a Turbohead tower module for my KT1. UNREAL!!! GREAT BEAM & OUTPUT!!!
We need some how to's on this swap!


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## nanotech17 (Feb 5, 2007)

dcjs - what type of battery you use for this SSC P4 set up?I thot SSC P4 will fry if you run it on 
LuxV board becoz i might swap the emitter on my LuxV Nuwai ALX352-L.
Anybody else care to chip in regarding this issue & resolution?


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## dcjs (Feb 5, 2007)

DaFABRICATA,

the how-to ist in post #9, there really isn't anything more to it! emitter swap plus shimming => done! 


nanotech17,

I'm by no means an expert on LED drivers, but from what I've read so far it depends on the specific circuit of your driver. the KL6 has a buck circuit providing constant current of 700mA to the led, which is perfectly fine with the SSC P4-LED. I can use 2x or 3xCR123 (4xCR123 should work as well, haven't tried though) as well as 2xRCR12. 
according to my understanding 2-cell LuxV lights have to use a voltage boost circuit to provide >6V to the LED, which will indeed fry the LED.


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## nanotech17 (Feb 7, 2007)

Hi Thanx dcjs,

Maybe i should swap the star with the Edison Opto KLC8 and fire it up with a single 17670 cell.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/150918


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## Long John (Feb 7, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> Hi Thanx dcjs,
> 
> Maybe i should swap the star with the Edison Opto KLC8 and fire it up with a single 17670 cell.
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/150918



Nano, this is the wrong thread here, but the vf is too low for the driver in your Nuwai ( boost step up converter). Just swap the LuxV to one with a better binning. I used a WX0S....=perfect result.

Best regards

_____
Tom


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## CM (Feb 7, 2007)

I actually did this mod already. Nothing to write home about compared to the Cree in my opinion. I like the spill provided by the Cree. For those that want more lux and more into the main beam, then the Seoul P4 is the way to go. It's all about preferences.


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## KDOG3 (Feb 7, 2007)

Man, this thread is making me want to buy a L6/KL6 just to do this mod!


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## Walt175 (Feb 7, 2007)

KDOG3 said:


> Man, this thread is making me want to buy a L6/KL6 just to do this mod!


 
Me too. It may be time for me to buy my first real surfire!


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## KDOG3 (Feb 7, 2007)

About how much longer runtime do you get? Anything wrong with running this setup on 2x17500s?


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## ICUDoc (Feb 7, 2007)

I put together the Cree P4 bin and the KL6 on a 18650 body from Leef via Lighthound- bugger me this thing is bright with great punch and a good amount of spill. The corona around the hotspot is particularly bright compared to other beams I have. The best news: with the low Cree Vf, IT RUNS ON A SINGLE 18650!!!!!!!!
What a great package in the hand!
I will pop some photos on my website in next day or two, and add details about the build.


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## nanotech17 (Feb 9, 2007)

Long John said:


> Nano, this is the wrong thread here, but the vf is too low for the driver in your Nuwai ( boost step up converter). Just swap the LuxV to one with a better binning. I used a WX0S....=perfect result.
> 
> Best regards
> 
> ...



Yes,
I think i should do that.
But what do you think of this emitter? - http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=19_24&products_id=171
( Sorry for the wrong thread but i had to )


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## Long John (Feb 9, 2007)

nanotech17 said:


> Yes,
> I think i should do that.
> But what do you think of this emitter? - http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=19_24&products_id=171
> ( Sorry for the wrong thread but i had to )



Nano, :thumbsdow 

vf far too high and besides that, the shape of the die isn't compatible with the reflector for a perfect beam shape.
Take a WX0S, you will be inspired The max vf is 6.39V, perfect match with the driver and reflector and .......a complete new *bright* light with perfect tint

Best regards

_____
Tom


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## nanotech17 (Feb 9, 2007)

Thanks Tom,

I'll take your advise :goodjob:


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## dcjs (Feb 17, 2007)

KDOG3 said:


> About how much longer runtime do you get? Anything wrong with running this setup on 2x17500s?



I don't see anything wrong with running this on two 17500s, since the light still has the stock converter that will eat anything from 6-12V. You will of course get more runtime due to higher capacity though.

Just did a test, *64 minutes* of runtime on two protected RCR123 (nominal capacity 650mAh), after that the battery protection kicks in an the light just shuts down. I didn't cool the light in any way, it just gets slightly warm, like body temperature maybe. Since I didn't do a runtime test with the unmodded KL6 on two rechargeables, I can't compare. Anyway, I'm really, really happy with over an hour of runtime on two rechargeables, and with my two-stage tailcap mod, I get loads of runtime on low setting (I quit the test after 24 hours with the unmodded KL6 because I got tired of it!) with very useful output. 

This package really rocks!


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## dcjs (Feb 20, 2007)

Resistored "low" setting (47 Ohm tailcap mod I am somewhat proud of, because it preserves the clicky for on/off and lets me choose brightness level by twisting the tailcap) provided 8:30h of runtime with protected RCR123s, then the light shut off. Output is about the same as a stock Fenix L1P. 

In case someone cares. :shrug:


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 21, 2007)

Congratulations on your Seoul'ed KL6. I went the Cree route, P4, low vf. Getting 8500 lux with very good spill. While vf is low, 3.45 volts at 1 amp to led, the use of a single 18650 (Leef body) does not allow for good regulation. Has to do with the make up of the circuit which stops regulating steady output at 4 volts vin. Does great with two LiIon's, and gets 1 hour+ with two RCR123's, and loooong runtime with two 18650's. CM did my work.

Bill


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## ledaholic (Feb 23, 2007)

Ok, so I modded my KL6 yesterday with a SSC USWOI P4 U bin. Shimmed it up until it butts up against the reflector and presto... I'm not really impressed. Either I had an overachieving LUX5 or I have a underachieving SSC U bin. I may have gained a little throw and a smaller hotspot over the LUX5, but the difference isn't drastic. I only have 1 KL6 so I can't compare side by side. Maybe I'll try a Cree next.


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## KDOG3 (Mar 5, 2007)

Resurrecting this thread, I know. I may be able to get a L6 here soon and I have a question. I have some of those .027" thick shims from the shoppe coming. Will they bring it up enough to focus it correctly?


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## dcjs (Mar 5, 2007)

KDOG3 said:


> Resurrecting this thread, I know. I may be able to get a L6 here soon and I have a question. I have some of those .027" thick shims from the shoppe coming. Will they bring it up enough to focus it correctly?



If the heatsink of your L6 is the same as mine, these shims will be (way) too thick. 
As I mentioned, the shim I used was cut from 0,2mm sheet material, which is ~0.008" in inches. Any more will just put additional pressure on your LED and 0.75mm will eiter crush your LED or keep the heatsink from contacting the back of the head. 

You could have answered that question yourself by reading the thread though.


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## KDOG3 (Mar 5, 2007)

Argh. So I don't really need the shim? Could I drill out the back of the reflector a smidge so as not to hit the emitter? Where would I get .2mm material? Thats' like aluminum foil thickness...


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## KDOG3 (Mar 7, 2007)

Can anyone recommend a shim? I guess I can fool with it when it gets here.


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## yazkaz (Apr 25, 2007)

How about mica chips? Do they work?


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## bombelman (Aug 13, 2007)




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## Solscud007 (Nov 11, 2008)

sorry to dig this up from the dead, but how do i do step 1? removing the Lux5 emitter from the KL6? I cant even get that far.


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## MorpheusT1 (Nov 11, 2008)

Ive never done a KL6,but the method should be the same.

Try applying some heat to it with a heatgun/hairdryer/blowtorch/boiling/putting in the oven
(Whatever is more Convenient).
Ive done this numerous times,breaking the led and getting left with the metal base with the stub sticking up.

Some heat and some pliers usually works,sometime i had to pry with a small flat screwdriver.


Best of luck.
Benny


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## Solscud007 (Nov 11, 2008)

thanks benny.


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## Solscud007 (Nov 12, 2008)

Well I did it. I got the seoul P4 into my KL6. I think my method is a little different than others. 

I ended up grinding down the two semi circle risers that hold the stock emitter in place. So that I can put the Seoul P4 star right on top. I also had to hand drill two new holes for the wiring to come up and solder to the star. 

Odd thing is that people said they needed a shim to push the emitter up into the reflector, mine is pressed all the way up into the reflector, and the heatsink does NOT touch the bezel mounting points. I have set it in place with the set screws but will look into shimming the heatsink back with small washers, maybe airsoft shims, cause right now the emitter is pressed right up against the bottom of the reflector.

But i got it fired up and even though it isnt brighter than my stock L6 Porcupine, the hotspot is super tight. It does throw further. I tested it outside and where the L6 porcupine would wash out, the KL6P4 hotspot shows up. Im shooting the lights across the street and down a little bit against my neighbor's house.


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## nanotech17 (Nov 13, 2008)

i used U2SVOH in mine.
bright and warm tint


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## Lunal_Tic (Nov 13, 2008)

Solscud007 said:


> I ended up grinding down the two semi circle risers that hold the stock emitter in place. So that I can put the Seoul P4 star right on top. I also had to hand drill two new holes for the wiring to come up and solder to the star.



Did your KL6 look like this? Mine doesn't seem to have the risers. Could someone post a photo of the newer style. This one is a little old I guess.






TIA,
-LT


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## Lunal_Tic (Nov 15, 2008)

Well I couldn't take it any longer and went ahead and tried this mod. It turns out the LuxV was only using thermal grease and solder to the pads not epoxy to hold it down. That kind of surprised me. The metal disk on mine was slightly concave so I flattened it out and sanded it down some on the LED side. The thinnest shim I had was 0.55mm so I sanded it down to 0.29mm and sandwiched it between the LED and disk.

Getting the whole mess centered in the reflector took some doing but it looks pretty close to perfect. One thing I worry about with these is the thermal path. The disk only makes contact with the head at the screw posts so I hit them with thermal grease. After 10 minutes or so the head is only slightly warm, 34C. I have other lights running less current that get warmer but I don't know how to make a better path to get rid of the heat.

I was surprised it doesn't seem to put out as much light as I'd hoped. I'm using a U2SWOI and a Mag mod I made using the same LED but only ~500mA smokes it. I'm guessing the larger Mag reflector is what makes a lot of difference. Part is also partly perception since the Mag has a very noticeable hotspot but the KL6 has a much softer hotspot. One other thing is that I'm running it on 2x18650s not 3xCR123s.

-LT


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## cy (Nov 15, 2008)

thanks for the feedback... this has been my assumption for awhile... focus may change, but lumens out the front end is the real question? 

how much lumens can be put out by a single LED? not BS claims but true usable lumens out the front end...

it has to be substantial for me to void my lifetime surefire warranty by switching to a different LED. 
runtime is not really a factor either as L-6 is running on 2x li-ion cells. have never run out of capacity due to use of a McGizmo two stage inside tailcap. 



Lunal_Tic said:


> I was surprised it doesn't seem to put out as much light as I'd hoped. I'm using a U2SWOI and a Mag mod I made using the same LED but only ~500mA smokes it. I'm guessing the larger Mag reflector is what makes a lot of difference. Part is also partly perception since the Mag has a very noticeable hotspot but the KL6 has a much softer hotspot. One other thing is that I'm running it on 2x18650s not 3xCR123s.
> 
> -LT


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## Lunal_Tic (Nov 15, 2008)

Hey cy,

It is putting out more than the original LuxV (fairly old) and slightly more than a newer KL6 I have but it's not really a "wow" experience for me. It will do for the time being but I'll keep searching for that "wow" effect. I'm also using a McGizmo two stage and it really like it too.







-LT


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## cy (Nov 15, 2008)

my KL6 is putting a solid Wbin for output... slightly more output doesn't justify killing the surefire warranty. 

there's soooo many inflated lumens claims ... have long lost track what's real and what's not.

my old MR-X with it's single LED, now 5 years old (somewhere in Europe) would put out lumens equal to Surefire M6 with lola. or 250+ lumens out the front end. 

not sure if any other single LED light has surpassed that performance yet?

now if there's an emitter out there that surpass' my old MR-X... that would be worth killing off my surefire warranty.


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## MrChoi (Dec 25, 2008)

dcjs said:


> I don't see anything wrong with running this on two 17500s, since the light still has the stock converter that will eat anything from 6-12V. You will of course get more runtime due to higher capacity though.
> 
> Just did a test, *64 minutes* of runtime on two protected RCR123 (nominal capacity 650mAh), after that the battery protection kicks in an the light just shuts down. I didn't cool the light in any way, it just gets slightly warm, like body temperature maybe. Since I didn't do a runtime test with the unmodded KL6 on two rechargeables, I can't compare. Anyway, I'm really, really happy with over an hour of runtime on two rechargeables, and with my two-stage tailcap mod, I get loads of runtime on low setting (I quit the test after 24 hours with the unmodded KL6 because I got tired of it!) with very useful output.
> 
> This package really rocks!




sorry to bring back an old thread but what body is that being used with the KL6?

Thanks!!!


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## 1wrx7 (Dec 25, 2008)

MrChoi said:


> sorry to bring back an old thread but what body is that being used with the KL6?
> 
> Thanks!!!


 
It looks like a Leef M head-C tail 1X18650 body. After looking for one for about 9 months I finally have one in the mail:twothumbs They have become very hard to find.


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## Daniel_sk (Dec 25, 2008)

Will a stock new Seoul version KL6(A?) work with two 18650 batteries? I have the leef body at home (running M3 head with EO-M3). I would like to give it a try.
What runtime could I expect from this combo?

Edit: I think I read somewhere that newer KL6 heads use Seoul LEDs, or not?

Thanks.



Lunal_Tic said:


> Hey cy,
> 
> It is putting out more than the original LuxV (fairly old) and slightly more than a newer KL6 I have but it's not really a "wow" experience for me. It will do for the time being but I'll keep searching for that "wow" effect. I'm also using a McGizmo two stage and it really like it too.
> 
> ...


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## Lunal_Tic (Dec 25, 2008)

Don't really know anything about a "new" L6 but if it runs on 3xCR123s then 2x18650s should be fine. As for runtime, no clue. I've run mine a good bit but haven't really kept track of the amount of time.

-LT


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## MrChoi (Dec 25, 2008)

can i still purchase the Leef M head-C tail 1X18650 body? i checked lighthound but i do not see it.

THanks.


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## Lunal_Tic (Dec 25, 2008)

As far as I know the only place to get Leef parts is Lighthound or CPFM second hand.

Good luck in the hunt.
-LT


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