# What's with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?



## HenryE (Mar 17, 2005)

*What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

Xenon 2xCR123 lights are as little as $12 including Panasonic cells and shipping to the U.S. It's $22 for a LuxeonIII 2xCR123, including the same.

I just received one of each and really like both workmanship and performance. Neither can hold a candle (!) to my TL-3, but for the price they seem fine. In fact, at two or three times the price I'd be satisfied. Did I miss something?


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## Lynx_Arc (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

It is a known fact that labor in some asian countries is dirt cheap and some *clones* or knockoffs of name brand lights can be made at perhaps a dollar or two above the cost of the materials involved compared to labor costing perhaps half or more of the cost of a light in a more developed country.
You can get good stuff.... or shoddy cheap junk or anywhere inbetween as clone light makers have no brand loyalty and sometimes try to maximize profit at expense of quality not concerned much with repeat customers. Those that are looking to someday become a prevelant brand tend to strive for a better balance of quality/cost.


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## HenryE (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

You're right. 
These lights, however, don't appear to be copies/knockoffs of anything I've seen from well-known producers - they're unique and independently designed. Nothing very special, but solid and well-made and though I'd like to find something wrong there's just nothing to criticize. 

The LuxeonIII is really bright - and the color is amazingly blue-white, much "whiter" than the light from the xenon bulbs I have. Maybe it isn't going to last... but for now, it's super.


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## greenLED (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

welcome to the new age of portable lighting! Everyone wants a "bright LED" light, but not everyone can pay SF or custom-made prices.


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## Pila_Power (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

I'm sure there are a lot of factories over that way, access to all equipment, materials and people with skills are abundant...

I am not suprised there are lights coming left, right and centre... finding a quality one is hit & miss though due to a non-existant quality control you'd expect from SF or other 'brand names'. (Meant to read financially backed and/or established companies).

my 2 senses worth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## TornadoKat (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

I've bought some eBay lights and one of the first things I noticed was the switches totally suck, the battery contacts are crappy metal that corrodes and oxidizes and bends easily, and the bulb won't fit well in the reflector assembly. Oh and the bulbs themselves are inconsistant in quality. One light will be OK, another will have a switch that is finicky, another one will stop working altogether. I was in an attic once with one of those popular MDXL3's, a Luxeon "3 watt" using 3 AAA batts, and it started blinking... I had to keep banging it on a rafter. After a few more uses it got worse where I had to keep taking the tailcap off and putting it back on, sometimes several times, before it would work again. I quickly learned that saving a few bucks is a waste if you don't get a light you can depend on. When you get a surefire, even the bulb or lamp assembly has been inspected and tested.... probably some other companies are just as picky /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have to say something about Chinese factories. My wife works for a company that designs custom products, has made overseas in China and Taiwan, imports, and sells all over USA and Canada. One of the things I learned from hearing her stories and visiting China is they are clueless about quality. Either they don't care or don't understand. They'll make something they know isn't exactly the way you specified, even if you made it clear it had to be made exactly a certain way. They'll ship a product they know doesn't work right because they think that's better than not shipping something. They'll make something right one month, and the next month make 100,000 a different way and screw it up. They'll also completely rip off an existing product... they have no concern for patents or stealing someone else's idea or design. Their government doesn't do squat to stop it as long as it brings in money. Only if something affects the taxes do they step in... like if a company underdeclares the export value to save export duties (which they all do), the government will just take the factory and throw the owner in jail... like for decades.

My wife and I have talked about this stuff a lot and I think it comes down to a lack of pride.... I don't think they take pride in themselves and what they do, so quality isn't a concern. Before I sound like I'm totally bashing them I must say there are some factories that can produce good quality product, but they are about as common as needles in haystacks. American companies who want a good quality product made in China have to go over there and completely supervise setting up the factory and oversee it's operation.

Wow what a rant! sorry folks! that was my two cents plus ten dollars more. LOL


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## Steve C (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

<<What a rant!>>

But 100% on target. This desire that many Americans have to pay the least for whatever is a big part of what is killing our production base. It is is every facet of our lives. I even see it in my hobby, which is radio-control models.

Its all about marketing and price points. Business mavens usually know, with a fair degree of accuracy, just how much Ward and June are willing to pay for a TV or a blender (or a flashlight), or a Xmas present for Beaver. For the most part, US companies are having products made to a price point, as opposed to a level of quality. The Chinese are happy to oblige.

I don't think its a lack of pride, so much as two other factors. First, these folks lead pretty hard lives, and are more concerned with making enough to eat and live on than producing quality goods. Second, they know they're making this stuff for the round-eyes, so who cares if it works?

Thankfully, there are firms like SF for those of us who don't mind paying extra for top shelf stuff. But the attitudes of some of our fellow citizens are pretty amazing. Several of the guys I work with think I'm nuts for spending over a hundred bucks on my A2; yet they all have boats with outboard motors that cost (just the motor, mind you!) the same as an economy automobile! When I point this out: "You paid nine grand for a boat motor? WHO is the idiot here???"... they get all huffy.

Ya gotta hate it when that happens... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Donovan (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*HenryE said:*Xenon 2xCR123 lights are as little as $12 including Panasonic cells and shipping to the U.S. It's $22 for a LuxeonIII 2xCR123, including the same.


[/ QUOTE ]
It's NOT a Luxeon III! These MXDL clones use a cheap asian knockoff "luxeon like" emitter. They do not use Lumileds Luxeons! The body of these are of ok quality but the internals are just plain junk! Mine quit working within 10 minutes! Stay far far way from MXDL!

As far as the incans, why spend $12 on a shoddy, unreliable light when you can get a Brinkmann MaxFire LX for only $7 more?

Now thats not to say all Asian lights are junk, just look at the Nuwai Q3! It uses a real Luxeon emitter and is made with very good quality.
Why waste $18-25 for a cheap knockoff that is unreliable? I would rather have a reliable $5 Dorcy, a $15 Infinity, a $19 MaxFire or a $35 Q3 than a $20 light that doesn't work!


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## LightObsession (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*Donovan said:*
It's NOT a Luxeon III! These MXDL clones use a cheap asian knockoff "luxeon like" emitter. They do not use Lumileds Luxeons! The body of these are of ok quality but the internals are just plain junk! Mine quit working within 10 minutes! Stay far far way from MXDL!

[/ QUOTE ]

HenryE said he liked his and didn't mention the name MXDL. He didn't mention the manufacturer's name. Maybe his actually is decent quality.

The best xenon light I own is the Brinkman Maxfire Rechargeable which I like very much and it's only $25, so I don't see a cost advantage to buying a xenon light off the internet unless you don't have local access to lights like the Maxfires or you prefer the form factor of the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay.


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## DimBeam (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*Steve C said:*
<<What a rant!>>

But 100% on target. This desire that many Americans have to pay the least for whatever is a big part of what is killing our production base. It is is every facet of our lives. I even see it in my hobby, which is radio-control models.

Its all about marketing and price points. Business mavens usually know, with a fair degree of accuracy, just how much Ward and June are willing to pay for a TV or a blender (or a flashlight), or a Xmas present for Beaver. For the most part, US companies are having products made to a price point, as opposed to a level of quality. The Chinese are happy to oblige.

I don't think its a lack of pride, so much as two other factors. First, these folks lead pretty hard lives, and are more concerned with making enough to eat and live on than producing quality goods. Second, they know they're making this stuff for the round-eyes, so who cares if it works?

Thankfully, there are firms like SF for those of us who don't mind paying extra for top shelf stuff. But the attitudes of some of our fellow citizens are pretty amazing. Several of the guys I work with think I'm nuts for spending over a hundred bucks on my A2; yet they all have boats with outboard motors that cost (just the motor, mind you!) the same as an economy automobile! When I point this out: "You paid nine grand for a boat motor? WHO is the idiot here???"... they get all huffy.

Ya gotta hate it when that happens... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve C is dead right. What the so called US companies(Toys, electronics, textiles,etc.) are doing in cohoots with Walmart, Lands End, Amazon,etc is selling theirs and our futures out for the almighty dollar. They care only about buying their 7,500 sq. ft. homes and making sure when junior hits 16 that he gets his BMW. There is no thought given by Bush, Congress, or what is left of American business as to a future game plan. Let factores die, uproot and destroy families, as long as I get MINE all is fine. 
Why does it take a 911 to wake people up about anything? We have sat on our fat asses while our manufacturing base is being destroyed with the complete approval of Bush and Congress. We knew in 1973 we better get more fuel efficient and 32 years later we are peak capacity with the world's oil and still no plan. Just build more SUV's and close our eyes. 
Why haven't the fuel standards for automobiles and trucks been doubled?Abu Dhabi just opened up a 3 billion dollar hotel and with the money flowing in it is said they could open up dozens more. Abu Dhabi??? Look up Abu Dhabi on the map....why does a pissy little country deserve to have this kind of income. God knows they and others like them didn't create the wealth out of any kind of hard work. They have oil, hire contractors to pump it out and have the good life. And all the Middle East oil producing nations know if they are threatened they can count on American blood to do their fighting for them.
The clock is ticking on America in more ways than one.


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## AW (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

If nobody's buying, they won't make it. There is actually a huge crowd around the globe going in pursuit of the cheap knockoffs from China. If the demand isn't there, the supply dies off - pretty simple economics. Anyone old enough should remember how the cheap transistor radios made by the Japanese in the 60's took the world. And how about those cheap Japanese cars in the 70's? Now look what is the quality of them consumer electronics and Japanese vehicles nowadays, they are world class and top-notch. It 's just a progress of development for typical third world countries. Who knows maybe the best flashlights will be made by one of them Chinese manufacturers someday. Just my 2 cents.


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## LightObsession (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

American manufacturers build high-power gas guzzling cars because American drivers demand high-power gas guzzling cars. There are plenty of fuel efficient cars, but most Americans think that bigger, more powerful and faster is better and that's what they buy. Most people don't need 500hp engines, but they buy them anyway. The responsibility for low average fuel economy lies at least as much with the consumer as with law makers and manufacturers. What do your friend and neighbors drive and why? How many H2 Hummer owners need one?


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## AW (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

My gun is bigger than yours is always a good thing /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## DimBeam (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*AW said:*
If nobody's buying, they won't make it. There is actually a huge crowd around the globe going in pursuit of the cheap knockoffs from China. If the demand isn't there, the supply dies off - pretty simple economics. Anyone old enough should remember how the cheap transistor radios made by the Japanese in the 60's took the world. And how about those cheap Japanese cars in the 70's? Now look what is the quality of them consumer electronics and Japanese vehicles nowadays, they are world class and top-notch. It 's just a progress of development for typical third world countries. Who knows maybe the best flashlights will be made by one of them Chinese manufacturers someday. Just my 2 cents. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course what you fail to mention was that the Japanese success story was done in a Democracy. China is run by a bunch of old men who are communist thugs. You pay people 7 to 15 cents a hour, deny them freedom of speech, the ability to form a Union, and have the worlds worst smokestack pollution and sure you can make a cheap flashlight.


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## AW (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

For the past 7 years, Hong Kong has no democracy either. We are ruled by a Chinese appointed governor who did a very lousy job. Look how Hong Kong did? Pollution is in fact a big problem in China beacuse they have no clue how to deal with it and they are hiring experts to attend the matter. What do you say when Bush backs out from the Kyodo treaty then?


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## DimBeam (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*AW said:*
For the past 7 years, Hong Kong has no democracy either. We are ruled by a Chinese appointed governor who did a very lousy job. Look how Hong Kong did? Pollution is in fact a big problem in China beacuse they have no clue how to deal with it and they are hiring experts to attend the matter. What do you say when Bush backs out from the Kyodo treaty then? 

[/ QUOTE ]

When China and the other countries that are given special exemptions to the Kyoto finally comply than Bush or whoever is President should join. If China has no clue how to deal with pollution it isn't for lack of time. They know how to clean it up but they choose not to. Between repressing their workers and not spending money on unimportant matters like "Pollution" they can remain competitive and keep ripping off other countries manufacturing Industries. Let's see how they do on a level playing field.


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## LightObsession (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

HenryE, what was the brand(s) of the lights you bought? This thread has gotten a wee bit off the original intent.


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## twentysixtwo (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

I'm darn glad I live in the US, but only those ignorant of history or international politics think Democracy or Capitalism are the cure-alls that they are sold to be.

China, Bangaladesh or Brazil are more Capitalist than Finland, Norway, or France. Similarly, Mexico, India or Pakistan are more Democratic than Singapore, or Hong Kong. Where would you rather live? 

Democracy and Capitalism don't naturally mesh well, particularly with the disruption that industrialization brings. It took about 150 years for us to get a reasonable balance of the two. We've got a decent system going, but it's far from perfect.

As far as quality being poor, it's parochial, stupid, and just plain offensive to paint an entire country with statements like "They don't understand quality" or "They have no pride" If you want to know who is responsible for the lack of quality, just look in the freaking mirror. You don't shop for a prom dress at K-Mart, and when you ask them to make something for pennies on the dollar, it's clear that price, not quality, is the most important factor.

I imagine there are more than a few people over there saying "Man, those Americans. They have such a throw-away society. All they care about is price, they don't care about quality. just look at the crap we're sending them!

</rant>


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## Geologist (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

Well said!


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## Emilion (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*AW said:*
For the past 7 years, Hong Kong has no democracy either. We are ruled by a Chinese appointed governor who did a very lousy job. Look how Hong Kong did? Pollution is in fact a big problem in China beacuse they have no clue how to deal with it and they are hiring experts to attend the matter. What do you say when Bush backs out from the Kyodo treaty then? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree, and some addition.....
I think democracy never launched in HK. Not the past 7 years but the hundred years.....


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## enLIGHTenment (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*TornadoKat said:*
I don't think they take pride in themselves and what they do, so quality isn't a concern.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have got to be joking.


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## rwolff (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]

One of the things I learned from hearing her stories and visiting China is they are clueless about quality. Either they don't care or don't understand. They'll make something they know isn't exactly the way you specified, even if you made it clear it had to be made exactly a certain way. They'll ship a product they know doesn't work right because they think that's better than not shipping something.


[/ QUOTE ]

Right on, TornadoKat. I've bought a couple of "made in China" class 2 drawbars (different "drop" heights) for $1 each - house brand of the store that ordered them, and marked down as factory seconds. It turns out that the Chinese manufacturer made them out of 1 1/4" square bar stock, and neglected to radius the corners, so they won't fit a 1 1/4" square receiver - it was cheaper for the manufacturer to write them off (and let the store dispose of them) than to ship them back as scrap metal. To top it off, they're about 3/4" longer from "butt end" to reciever pin hole than a "domestic" one, so on receivers with a "stop" the holes won't line up. Of course, a bit of work with an angle grinder and a hacksaw, and they're fine.

What happened *after* this fiasco was discovered? A few months later I was at the same store, and they'd received a new batch - with the same problem.


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## AW (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

I don't know what you would call those who willingly accept the poorly made products and pass them on to paying customers. If they are decent enough to reject their orders, you wouldn't have the problems in the first place. Instead, you vendors choose to keep buying them for dirt cheap and making them available again. It is pure greed and I would said they have no decency and integrity at all!! $$$ is all they care!


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## HenryE (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

Sorry about triggering a political debate. I've been in HK and China from time to time, and both are hotbeds of capitalism. From my hotel room in Shanghai I once counted 23 construction cranes, and everyone on the street has a cellphone stuck to his ear. There are beautiful private homes visible everywhere as individuals break the code. It may be "communism" by name, but it's an incredibly opportunistic and capitalist economy driven by cheap labor and subsidized growth.

As for shoddy goods, Chinese industry got the word and knows that to get the second order it has to meet serious global expectations and standards. From my viewpoint as an "industrialist", those standards are being met - though the western customer still has to be careful who he orders from. Confidence is building rapidly as China grows to dominate world manufacturing. We need to face that reality and adapt to it - and exploit it. 

Back to the flashlights.

For background, I'm an old fart, retired Marine, an EE with some good tools - though I'm not a flashlight fanatic (just wanted a couple of small lights).

I disassembled both of these lights. Everything that's machined is well done on CNC machines, of adequate - perhaps excellent - alloy. Knurling/checkering is first-rate. Fit is perfect. Design is unimaginative - pretty much a mixture of everything you've seen. The internal contacts won't corrode when wetted with acetic acid and exposed to a high-oxygen trickle overnight. The incandescent unit's bulb looks a lot like... a flashlight bulb. I rigged a 6V supply and the bulb has been burning overnight - it's still on. I don't have a convenient way to measure brightness, but it's bright - slightly yellow compared to the "Luxeon" output.

The O-rings look like neoprene, the springs are steel, the lens is glass, but the reflector is smooth. The bulb is centered and the pattern isn't bad. If I had bought this at my local gun shop for $30-40, I would be satisfied.

The high-output LED (on eBay it was sold as a "3watt Luxeon Star") light is of similar high quality throughout. There's a flat spot obviously waiting for a brand name to be engraved. The workings inside the business end look exactly like the various pictures of "Luxeon" lights. Output is whiter than that of the xenon lights - it is *very* bright. There's a smooth reflector, but it puts out a nice round pattern without much light to the sides.

I've used Cramolin for decades to inhibit corrosion on contacts, etc., so while these were apart I did that. 

There is no brand name on either light. I suspect a brand is added by U.S. marketers that multiply the prices and put a box and warranty on the units.

As an electrical engineer, I see no reason to suspect that these lights won't last long, though I'd best find a source for xenon bulbs - that one is still burning, and it can't last forever. 

Henry


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## koala (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

They have their pride that is to manufacture more flashlight, quantity matters more than quality. Their wages is very low they are just trying to survive. The only way to compete is to produce as many as possible. That means to recoupe from their cheap lights is to sell by volume.

Quality of product comes after the factory/manufacturer gains some grounds. Take JSB Lithium rechargeable CR123 for example. It wasn't good at first. Jon? did some request and they responded to his requirements. A lot of things we use today are from China, give them some time.

If you want cheap knockoff, they don't come in good quality. If you want quality, you buy the the product from the original equipment manufacturer. This way you get real quality product Made in China own by a foreign company.


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## Mike Painter (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*AW said:*
I don't know what you would call those who willingly accept the poorly made products and pass them on to paying customers. If they are decent enough to reject their orders, you wouldn't have the problems in the first place. Instead, you vendors choose to keep buying them for dirt cheap and making them available again. It is pure greed and I would said they have no decency and integrity at all!! $$$ is all they care! 

[/ QUOTE ]
They are called distributors and America has always bought the lower cost item. It's the end user that has to reject such goods in a Capitalistic society. The corporation, by law, has to maximize profits and if I can sell a widget for $19.99 while my competitor sells one for $59.99 I’m going to make a lot more money than he will as long as they are fairly similar in function.
It’s cheaper to replace occasional units than to build better and nobody is willing to spend $30.00 to have even a $60.00 item repaired.

As for not having pride, I heard that about the Japanese when I was growing up. They were the ones who invited Deming to Japan and replaced “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” With “If it isn’t broken, make it better” America never really listened to the man.
(Harley Davis did, via Japan, and it saved the company.)


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## fleshlite (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

Just look at Walmart, being fined for millons for having illegal custodials. They are the largest buyer in China and they turn around to sell this to us. They set the prices that they will buy from the manufacturers in China, if they are too high they won't but so what is a person to do. In the end it is the consumers here in the US that will dictate the quality of a product brought to market. Walmart and others like them together with the manufacturers are just catering to our collective taste for either quality or cost.


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## HenryE (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

Forget the economics lessons. China is the world's producer - that's here to stay, and competition INSIDE China is intense which can only improve quality and control prices. Win win. 
**************************
Back to flashlights. The xenon bulb finally died, after 22 hours at 6.0V using an external supply. Is that about right? Now, where can I get replacements?

Henry


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## LightObsession (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

HenryE, thanks for your updated info on these lights. Sorry your thread got hijacked. The political discussion/slam should be moved to another thread.


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## Pila_Power (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

The political talk is actually very interesting.

If it is moved elsewhere, please place a link in this thread, seeing as it started the whole thing... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## iineijbaldj (Mar 27, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

I know it's a bit OT but I bought 20 lights from Costco and opened one up and saw it said, Lumiled on the 
star LED. I measured the current on what's labeled a 1W LED flashlight and got 0.745Amps. Times 3 volts (2AA's)
that's over 2.1Watts. So what gives? Have I got a knock off? IS Costco selling a knock off item?
Ipaid $20 for 2 and I'm happy except for a long rant I put in over at FWallet about the quality. I'll repost it here
if anyone wants to see what happened when I took some apart and took some measurments.

Let me know and I 'll repost the note. 
andre


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## iineijbaldj (Mar 27, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

A Bit OFfTopic but Ibought 20 of thelights that Costco has. 2 Luxeon's for $29.99 on clearance for$19.99. When I got them home and opened 5 packs (10 lights) I tested them all and found that the color and beam pattern ws different for all of them. 

I'll just repost what I had posted at FWallet re: my experience. It's kind of interesting with a followup to come in a few days after I contact Lumiled.

my -post from FWallet---
I bought 10 packs and started testing them today. Some are definantly bluish, others are more a warmer white. An actual white.. very nice, one (out of 10 so far) is actually almost pinkish. 
Am using the same batteries so it's not the voltage that changes. 

One of the 10 has an absolutely perfect beam pattern like a well tuned incandescent flashlight. Most of the other 9 are poorly focussed. I did check and saw that I can turn the head and this causes the lens inside (there's an actual focussing lens) to turn and move in and out as the head unscrews or screw on.
The problem though is that the head is designed to screw down tight and be secure. 

So I did some more checking. And then I saw that there's a plate that screws down on to the led mounting
plate. On some lights this led mounting plate was about 1/8" higher and on a couple it's about 1/8" lower.
And this causes the LED to be too high or too low relative to the focussing lens. 

So there some manufacturing problems with these LEDs. After I got as far as taking out the 2nd plate I realized
that I was getting down to the wires and circuitry. And it did not look like that was going to come apart easily or 
even at all. So I stopped.

The only thing I can do is to cherry pick the ones where the LED is properly positioned.]

THEN ANOTHER PROBLEM
I was measuring the current with two sets of batteries. One was rechargables with voltage of 1.28 volts(approx).
The other were alkalines and about 1.45volts each. The current in both cases was 0.745Amps. If you multiply
the amps x volts you get over 2 Watts. (0.750 x 3.0v). 

Four out of five lights I tested were the same current (.740-.750A).
One was 0.448Amps. It was noticibly dimmer but the light was whiter, not so bluish, more pink/white. 
So if I test the other 15 flashlights for current I wonder what I'll find. 

But what's up about the 2Watts also? They're supposed to be 1Watt Luxeon LED lamps. Lumiled's name is stenciled
on the LED. That I saw when I had it apart. I might call or write them to discuss this or ask why the wattage is 2Watts.

So anyway there's my update. There might be more that I've not found yet. Like something about the lenses might 
be different among the lamps. Or there might be other differences. But those that I found were significant if you're in
the business of making focussing flashlights. However they're $10-15 a piece and the LED's themselves sell for 
$10-12 ea even in quantity I believe. So there's not much room for profit at all. 
UNLESS THE LED's ARE KNOCK OFFS 

But it's my guess they're not. Why? Because it's hard to make a 1W or 3W or 5W LED. And I doubt if China has
taken the time to knock off a plant to make such a device.. yet. They're still a relatively new device.

andre


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## LightObsession (Mar 27, 2005)

*Re: What\'s with the Hong Kong flashlights on eBay?*

[ QUOTE ]
*iineijbaldj said:*
I know it's a bit OT but I bought 20 lights from Costco and opened one up and saw it said, Lumiled on the 
star LED. I measured the current on what's labeled a 1W LED flashlight and got 0.745Amps. Times 3 volts (2AA's)
that's over 2.1Watts. So what gives? Have I got a knock off? IS Costco selling a knock off item?


[/ QUOTE ]

If I recall correctly, you have to measure the current and voltage at the LED to know how much power is going to it, not the voltage and current from the batteries.


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