# Inexperienced Stupid Knife Question



## LuxLuthor

I have never bought a "major" knife. I think the only knives I have ever bought was a Swiss Army and a Rapala fishing filet knife. Sometimes I read some posts in this section, and I try to figure how I would use a nice knife. It's hard to imagine having it in my pocket all the time, and I can't imagine using it as a defensive weapon....I'd surely poke my own eye out somehow. I'm more of a run than fight kind of a guy, and have never been in a fight in my life.

Do you guys get them to a large degree as an admiration of the quality/workmanship....almost being like a shelf queen?


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## karlthev

I have a (extensive? larger then my light collection!) collection of custom, handmade (although use of the term is a controversial one in this area) knives of all types...straight, lockbacks, slipjoints, interframes...the list goes on and on. 

I have styles referred to as fighters however I don't ever plan on using any of these as any kind of defensive weapon---hand to hand combat wiith a knife requires specialized training--something of no interest to me. 

With all of the knives I have---all possible belt carry in sheaths or pocket carry (folders)--I carry a Swiss Army knife and an expensive small two-blade Congress-style slipjoint with me all of the time--my EDC knives. The Swiss Army knife gets all of the hard use and the Congress, the more precise work so as not to dull it to the point of having to sharpen it. This may seem odd--not wanting to sharpen a knife--however, sharpening significantly reduces the value of a knife just as marring the exterior of a light will reduce its value. Much better to buy a $50-$100 knife if you want to use it on a daily basis and never have any intention of selling it as a collector.

All that being said, I do carry a rather large lockback (folder) in a custom case on my frequent hikes--I guess as some last ditch form of protection--along with a stout 6 foot bamboo shaft--the bamboo being of much better protection if you ask me. The knife is a $500+ knife so, anyone wanting a piece of me might well rather swipe my knife rather than a few bucks I might be carrying in the woods!

I have collected knives primarily to admire the fine workmanship of the many, MANY builders of knives. 


Karl


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## Bloodnut

I imagine that you can understand how a light can a sort of extension of one's personality and how one derives a bit of satisfaction from the use of same. Knives are sort of the same. Think of it this way: cheap knife vs. good knife is the same as stock Mag Light vs. Mag Light w/ Malkoff drop-in. And yes, there is a pride of ownership factor as well.

Fact of the matter is that the knife is probably the second oldest tool (hammer i.e., rock being the oldest). It simply makes sense to carry one day in, day out; both for convenience and emergency use. Having carried one daily all of my adult life, I can't imagine walking out my front door without a blade on me.


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## Oddjob

For me its basically its like my sig line says. Certainly there is appreciation of workmanship and quality with high end stuff. There is also the feeling of having a really good tool in your hand when you need it.


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## Yucca Patrol

Knives and fire are what separate us from the animals.


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## Th232

Some of mine I have as users, others as shelf queens.

Funnily enough, my XM-18 (easily the most expensive in my collection) is my hard-use knife. I can admire the work that went into its design and construction, and quite happily use it for the harder tasks that I have.

I suppose a viable comparison would be my LS20. I can admire all the work that went into its design and construction, and still happily use it, despite the fact that it's the most expensive item I carry, barring my laptop.


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I have never bought a "major" knife. I think the only knives I have ever bought was a Swiss Army and a Rapala fishing filet knife. Sometimes I read some posts in this section, and I try to figure how I would use a nice knife. It's hard to imagine having it in my pocket all the time, and I can't imagine using it as a defensive weapon....I'd surely poke my own eye out somehow. I'm more of a run than fight kind of a guy, and have never been in a fight in my life.
> 
> Do you guys get them to a large degree as an admiration of the quality/workmanship....almost being like a shelf queen?



I guess it depends upon what you mean by "major" or "nice" knives. For me, I admire the engineering, art and craftsmanship of every knife I own, and I have more than a few. I like to carry a small knife with me everywhere and I find uses for the small Swiss army pocket knife I EDC many times every day. Along with the small pocket knife I also carry a Leatherman Skeletool pretty much everywhere, and use it for any task at hand.

I also have several pocket knives that are works of art, made out of materials such as ZDP-189 blade steel or fine Damascus with ZDP-189 core, wooly mammoth bone, iron wood, fossilized walrus ivory, or other "artsy" scales, mokame frame, niobium frame, and the like. These knives are so precisely crafted, like a fine swiss watch. I often carry one of them, but I use them very gingerly/carefully, so as not to mark them up in any way.

I have a number of Tactical knives that are again, very finely crafted, and I admire them for the craftsmanship and engineering.

Interestingly, there are some very close business ties between some of the Tactical and some of the "artsy" knife companies. 

Anyway, just as you can't carry more than a couple of flashlights at once, the same is true of pocket knives, so when they're not being enjoyed on my person, they make a great collection which can be admired as such.


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## gollum

wow 

I think everyone has answered here to cover just about all facets of knife ownership

as a Knifemaker and collector and carrier
I relate to all these answers

I'm glad to see TH232 uses a high quality knife that many ppl keep as a safe queen... good on ya mate :wave:

I have many knives that vary from cheap to very expensive ($1000+)

all knives get use by me but the dearer they get the more care I take with regard to potential damage, mainly scratches
you do not start chopping a chunk of hardwood with a unique custom folder ...you use your camp knife or an axe etc

and most people have a decent keychain or pocketknife for all the general stuff,cutting boxes,open letters etc
and then a really nice backup 

if you let any knife sit in storage for too long it might get rusty or mouldy so it is always wise to circulate all your knives occasionally


this is all very similar to our edc flashlights
we all have favourites 
we all use certain ones for certain jobs etc


I recommend this if you want to buy knives...
don't waste money on cheap stuff 

a factory made knife with quality steel and good materials can be had for little more than $100 
$200-300 will get you a very good knife that will last years and be a pleasure to use
after that you're starting to get choices in quality custom made territory and the sky is the limit there


.


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## EV_007

Agreed, owning a good quality knife (And light) give peace of mind and pride I guess.

Like flashlights, knives can get ridiculously expensive while giving diminishing returns after a certain price point.

Like flashlights, less favored knives tend to become shelf queens as you collect more. 

My Sebanza gets used almost everyday. The light weight and quality has never failed me, yet.

I' not a knife fighter, but my Emerson CQC10 backs up my "defense" carry package.


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## Gatsby

I have almost always carried a pocket knife. My dad carried one daily and I just assumed it was part of what a gentleman kept with him. My dad loved flashlights and kept a host of Mags in handy spots but given the relative lack of true pocket lights he didn't pocket one daily.

What I carry is a bit different - I have been moving a bit toward fewer but higher quality items in my EDC. I currently have 4 Spydercos, 1 Benchmade and a few SAKs (alox classic on my key ring and alox Cadet that I do EDC, Spartan which is in my desk at work and gets apple slicing duty, and Camper which my father gave to me years ago and which I'm saving for my son). There is still some redundancy - I have a Spyderco Navigator which is my small knife, but the other Spydercos and Benchmade all fall into the roughly 3" blade size which is my favorite for most daily carry.

I admit that I don't use my nicest knife, a Spyderco Sage 2, to chop wood and relatively speaking treat it somewhat gingerly - or at least don't abuse it and wipe the blade after use, etc... I do carry it regularly and open the mail, open packages, etc... with it like I do most of my EDC knives. None are really shelf queens but I have to admit that until they get a bit of "wear" on them I do tend to baby them a little. That first mark is sometimes a good thing as I'll stop treating it with kid gloves.


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## jzmtl

I appritiate the quality/workmanship, but don't collect anything (mostly). I won't buy something I won't use, and if something I have is not getting used it'll be sold.


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## kwkarth

jzmtl said:


> I appritiate the quality/workmanship, but don't collect anything (mostly). I won't buy something I won't use, and if something I have is not getting used it'll be sold.



You're the smart one here.


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## LuxLuthor

How long are the knives that you guys always carry in your pockets? I'm trying to think how much I would use it during my day...and if it wears a hole in your pocket. Certainly being outside hiking/camping it would be essential. I'm still thinking about them. It's probably one of those things that once you have it you see more of a value in it. Not sure what model, length is most "practical."


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## Sgt. LED

Knife is just like a flashlight for me. Have at least 1 of each with you all the time.
They can be a tool, a toy, or a piece you just have so you can admire it close up. 

I think a blade length of 2-3 inches is good for general carry and when doing something specialized like camping or hunting the sky's the limit really, carry as big as you are comfortable with.

Defensive weapon? If you try it you will both end up cut most likley. Getting stabbed hurts, every time. I'm at 3 so far. Personally I think it's faster and safer to leave the blade in your pocket and go at it with your hands. If he's already got a knife out you are in real trouble if you try to go for yours and fumble the draw in any tiny way. If it's a real concern go and get instructed in taking a knife away from someone. You'll still get probably get cut but not so much. 
Hey if running has worked for you this long, don't change - it's a good strategy. Just because a knife is sold as a particular style doesn't mean anything, it all in how you use it. My Strider butters a biscuit pretty well and could cut somebody if I need it to but I'd rather not try it with a folder no matter how tough or combat styled it is. 

1 more thing, it's 4:30 AM and opinions vary~!


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## csshih

speaking of which, sarge.. I'm still EDCing the caly3 CF you sold me!


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## Oddjob

LuxLuthor said:


> How long are the knives that you guys always carry in your pockets? I'm trying to think how much I would use it during my day...and if it wears a hole in your pocket. Certainly being outside hiking/camping it would be essential. I'm still thinking about them. It's probably one of those things that once you have it you see more of a value in it. Not sure what model, length is most "practical."


 
I used to carry a 3 inch blade but have recently been carrying a blade under 2 inches for day to day use. I pocket carry my knife and light so I have been trying smaller sizes.


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## Th232

Variable, but usually within the 3" range, +/-0.5". Knife clips are about the same as flashlight clips, so I'm getting some wear near the pocket's edge.

Of course, if I'm carrying a small FB (thanks Gollum!) then clip wear isn't an issue at all.


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## Fulgeo

LuxLuthor,

I have had a knife in my pocket since 4th grade. I am of the era where it was not a big deal. Heck before 9/11 I flew from Michigan to Costa Rica and back with a 2.5" knife in my pocket. I have one well worn 3" flat full stainless steel lock blade that I have owned 25+ years that likely as not you will find in my pocket. When you buy a lock blade try to handle it before the purchase. Open the blade and with the blade locked in position grab the blade and see how much movement it has side to side. Check how loose it is. Not up and down like against the cutting edge but 90 degrees from the edge if you follow me. Some expensive knifes are "loose" and some inexpensive knifes are tight. Some knifes loosen up as they age. I was lucky in finding a knife 25 years ago that is still tight and it was not an expensive knife. Also be aware that just about all pocket knifes these days are made from 440 Stainless Steel. Its pretty, extremely resistant to oxidation, easy to fashion a blade from and does not hold an edge well. Its a good enough metal for a pocket knife but an old high carbon steel blade holds a superior edge in comparison. Those old boy scout knifes where high carbon steel and they held one heck of an edge. Last issue, you should do a little research in you state and read up on the knife carry laws. In Michigan you can carry a "folder" single edged blade of 3" or less length. It can not be of the "assist" self opening variety. The police in my state used to take and open your blade up and put the blade in the palm of their hand up near the base of their fingers. If it was longer than their palm you could be in trouble. Do not ask me how I know this. I always have a pocket knife and very small lighter on me when I leave my house and enter the world. I do not smoke but "being prepared" is the motto.


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## matrixshaman

A knife is what you use to rip / cut open your flashlight packages. How can you be a real flashaholic without one?  
Seriously I've had a pocket knife of some sort for probably over 50 years. You will want to check your state knife laws if you are considering EDC'ing one as they differ quite a lot from state to state. I have carried a Benchmade Ritter griptilian for several years and it's fairly easy on the pocket (clipped inside) and probably use it 40 times a day (more now as I'm building a house) but I can't imagine not having this tool. BTW the Forbes list of top tools of all time (or something similar) listed the knife as the number one tool. I think Benchmades are a great starting place. I've got others including a Strider, Emerson and others. While Emerson and Spyderco's have a big fan base I really don't care for either of those brands. Strider however is a knife you know is a tool that will survive about anything. Just beware that if you think flashlights are a wallet drain you ain't seen nothin' yet if you get into knives


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## Jethro

LuxLuthor said:


> It's hard to imagine having it in my pocket all the time, and I can't imagine using it as a defensive weapon....I'd surely poke my own eye out somehow.



LOL, you aren't a real "knife guy" until you deep cut yourself with a very sharp, high quality knife! I almost took my own pinky off with a new Spyderco Harpie back in the day.



LuxLuthor said:


> Do you guys get them to a large degree as an admiration of the quality/workmanship....almost being like a shelf queen?



I used to be that way, buying knives for the engineering, design... beauty. Now-a-days I use them mostly as tools. The only knifes I carry daily are a Leatherman Charge Ti and a Stanley razor knife. Both nothing to defend with, but useful for me. I would never use a knife as a weapon unless it's kill or be killed. I've never had to resort to that as it never get's past the hand to hand phase.


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## carrot

I just like 'em. They are useful tools, fun to play with, and many are extremely well engineered. What's so fascinating about flashlights?


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## TKC

*I am and have been a huge knife knut! I buy and use custom knives only, or the most part. (I do buy CRK & Strider's.) I love using my custom knives, no matter how expensive they are. I know I CAN send them back to the maker for refurb. Ahhhhhh, the joy of using a custom knife!*


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## guyg

I've carried a knife since 13. Most important, if you use a knife for "self Defense" you are the one most likely to go to jail. Second,I'm not sure where your post is headed.I read it 4 times. If you are looking to buy a knife, go get a Swiss Army Knife. If you want to upgrade look at a Buck 110 or similar. There are lots of great knives out there, these two are good place to start.


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## LuxLuthor

Let me absolutely rule out using/wanting a knife as a weapon. 


​Although it will probably gives you all a good laugh, here is my "grand" collection of the "knives" I use to open boxes, envelopes, cut rope, strings, etc. I probably use the Walkers the most because it is small, easy to close, and sharpens easy.

The Rapala is for fileting fishing when I go out camping, otherwise stays in the drawer. Yes I use that Samarai Shark to sharpen all the ones in the middle, and all the kitchen cutlery because it's quick and gives a very sharp edge.

I got that Fenix knife free with some light I ordered a while back, but have not used it, as I suspect it is not of good quality. It feels too small in my hand. I'm not sure where my Swiss Army Knife is.

What would be a good pocket knife that I would enjoy having.


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## LuxLuthor

guyg said:


> I've carried a knife since 13. Most important, if you use a knife for "self Defense" you are the one most likely to go to jail. Second,I'm not sure where your post is headed.I read it 4 times. If you are looking to buy a knife, go get a Swiss Army Knife. If you want to upgrade look at a Buck 110 or similar. There are lots of great knives out there, these two are good place to start.



I'm really not crazy about my Swiss Army Knife, I always feel like I'm gonna break one of the blades/tools. The main blade is too thin, too rounded at the tip, dulls easily, and none of the tools ever seemed quite adequate for what I needed them for, and too hard to open most of them. I think I just figured out why I don't know where it is. LOL!

I looked at Amazon & a couple other sites for the Buck 110, and it looks nice, but if I only get 1 or 2 knives I think I would rather get one that is more than $35-40 price range just so I have something to appreciate in terms of craftsmanship.

I'm not jerking anyone's chain. I'm asking about these with sincerity. It is just an area that I never paid attention to, or took the time to learn about.

.


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## karlthev

You'll find that levels of craftsmanship and variety of knives as broad an area as those aspects related to lights Lux...and I'm sure you've already realized that fact. You may want to try A. G. Russell as a catalog source of some very find production knives and picking up a copy of Knives Illustrated or Knives magazine will give you some basic ideas of what may be out there.

No one knife can or will serve all cutting functions perfectly and personal preferences are many. While my EDC Swiss Army knife serves me for accomplishing most of my daily cutting tasks, it does dull easily in comparison to some of my other knives---but, it sharpens as quickly as anyone could hope with a few touch up swipes on my steel. Always a trade off. My field garb on hikes permits me to carry a sheath knife while the same carry choice in the office would draw undue attention, questioning of my stability and at worst, a visit from security.oo:

Karl


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## Fulgeo

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm really not crazy about my Swiss Army Knife, I always feel like I'm gonna break one of the blades/tools. The main blade is too thin, too rounded at the tip, dulls easily, and none of the tools ever seemed quite adequate for what I needed them for, and too hard to open most of them. I think I just figured out why I don't know where it is. LOL!
> 
> I looked at Amazon & a couple other sites for the Buck 110, and it looks nice, but if I only get 1 or 2 knives I think I would rather get one that is more than $35-40 price range just so I have something to appreciate in terms of craftsmanship.
> 
> I'm not jerking anyone's chain. I'm asking about these with sincerity. It is just an area that I never paid attention to, or took the time to learn about.
> 
> .


 
The Buck 110 is an excellent knife LL. I would also suggest the Buck "Prince" series. The Prince has a 420HC blade that holds a better edge than 440. Also it has a Blade Length of 2.5". Most importantly its bolsters are SS or nickle silver. This is important because the Buck 110 has brass bolsters and well although brass is nice I do not like the smell brass gives off when it starts to oxidize. I think you can pick up a Price for just over $30. It is a small enough knife not to draw to much criticism form the boys in blue but has a large enough blade to get the job done. It is well constructed and "tight". I have one of them and was able to field dress a deer with it one season.


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm really not crazy about my Swiss Army Knife, I always feel like I'm gonna break one of the blades/tools. The main blade is too thin, too rounded at the tip, dulls easily, and none of the tools ever seemed quite adequate for what I needed them for, and too hard to open most of them. I think I just figured out why I don't know where it is. LOL!
> 
> I looked at Amazon & a couple other sites for the Buck 110, and it looks nice, but if I only get 1 or 2 knives I think I would rather get one that is more than $35-40 price range just so I have something to appreciate in terms of craftsmanship.
> 
> I'm not jerking anyone's chain. I'm asking about these with sincerity. It is just an area that I never paid attention to, or took the time to learn about.
> 
> .


AGRussell is a good company selling great knives from many manufacturers. One of the manufacturers whose knives they sell that you might want to consider is Lone Wolf Knives. http://www.lonewolfknives.com/store/pages/home.shtml

All of their knives are designed and manufactured in the USA of good materials, are VERY well made, and VERY reasonably priced. You would be hard pressed to find a better value.

A few models you may want to consider:





"Blackfoot," CPM-S30V, plain edge, 3.00 in. blade, checkered Ebano scales, Best Value Knife of the Year - 2009 Winner @ $121.99 MSRP





“Longhorn®”, CPM-S30V, plain edge, 3.5 in. blade, checkered Ebano scales @ $139.99 MSRP





“Paul® Presto” Burl-wood Folder, 2.4 in. blade, 400 Series high-carbon stainless steel, $149.99 MSRP





Paul® “Defender™”, 154 CM, 3.9 in. blade, cocobolo scales, $219.99 MSRP - 2009 Overall Knife of the Year - Blade Show





Lonewolf Designs – The “U.S.45” Rosewood folder, 440 C, 3.3 in blade, $99.99 MSRP

Limited Lifetime Warranty on all of the above.


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## LuxLuthor

I like the idea of a pointed blade, and that last one is a great looking model. I'm gonna order that one. Thanks guys very much for your expertise. 

Oh one last thing....knowing nothing about sharpening....what is your advice regarding this knife?

LOL....one more thing...going to that link I'm immediately drawn to that Defender 154 knife of the year, even at twice the price. I don't know the benefits between the two on a practical basis.


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I like the idea of a pointed blade, and that last one is a great looking model. I'm gonna order that one. Thanks guys very much for your expertise.
> 
> Oh one last thing....knowing nothing about sharpening....what is your advice regarding this knife?
> 
> LOL....one more thing...going to that link I'm immediately drawn to that Defender 154 knife of the year, even at twice the price. I don't know the benefits between the two on a practical basis.



Both of the knives that you mentioned are excellent knives, but they are very different form one another in operation. The 45 represents a fairly conventional design, executed in top notch materials by top notch craftsmen here in the USA. 

The Paul _Defender is a very *unique and revolutionary* design_, also executed in top notch materials by top notch craftsmen here in the USA.

See the Paul Pohlman instructional videos in the middle of the page below to understand how the Paul knives work.
http://lonewolfknives.com/store/pages/products.shtml

You will easily get more than your money's worth in either knife.



> *“ Paul holds over forty US and Foreign Utility Patents and numerous design patents. Over 20 of these Patents are for folding knife mechanisms. Besides being a great inventor, designer and product engineer, Paul is also an extremely talented custom knife maker.”*
> The term "Legend" is used to describe many people in the knife industry but Paul W. Poehlmann is the genuine article. He is one of the few designers who is both a highly skilled custom knife maker and a mechanical design genius.
> 
> Paul W. Poehlmann has been interested in mechanical devices since he was a child. Paul followed this interest and trained to become a mechanical/design engineer. After graduating from university he worked on a broad variety of mechanical engineering projects. He designed tooling, production processes and products including harvesting machinery, bicycle components, aircraft escape system hardware, multi-purpose tools, two-position boat seats and a wine cork-extraction device plus many other interesting complications. With the experience he gained from this broad engineering background, he then moved into the aerospace industry. He worked for over 14 years as a mechanical design engineer designing many types of aircraft escape systems hardware. During this time period he held the positions of engineering manager, chief engineer and director of research and design.
> 
> Paul has always been interested in guns and knives. He likes their overall design with primary focus on the mechanisms involved. In 1974 Paul started to design folding knife mechanisms as he knew there was a better way to lock a folding knife blade open and closed than what he had seen. During this time period he designed, developed and patented the "*Axial Locking Mechanism*" for folding knives. This new lock design was revolutionary in that it is durable and safe, locking the blade in both the open and closed positions while also bolting the side plates and blade together. The Axial Lock is so precise in its fit and operation that people are amazed at how smoothly it snaps open and closed. Knives with the Axial Lock were truly some of the first one-handed opening knives and launched a wave of product development efforts by major knife companies to achieve one-handed opening without violating Paul's patented designs. During this same time period Paul also built hand-made folding and fixed blade knives. These knives are extremely rare and are highly sought after by knife collectors from all over the world.
> 
> In 1976, Paul contracted with Gerber Legendary Blades® to have production Paul® Knives produced. Gerber produced Paul® Knives from 1977 to 1986. These knives were very popular with knife enthusiasts and collectors sought them desperately after Gerber stopped production in 1986. A second edition of the Paul® Knife was introduced in 1996 and was produced for two years. This new Series II, Model 2 Paul® Knife had some design improvements over the original models and it soon became very popular. In spite of this, Gerber discontinued production in 1997. The Series II, Model 2 Paul® Knife also became a collectable item as soon as it hit the market.
> 
> If I were to summarize what defines a "Paul" folding knife it would be:
> *1.* They are invented, designed and engineered by one individual, Paul W. Poehlmann.
> *2.* Each component of these knives is constructed from the finest materials as applicable to their use.
> *3.* All components are manufactured within a very close band of tolerances to assure longevity and more precise operation than any other knife available.
> *4.* All Paul Knives, handmade or factory produced, over the years have experienced an appreciable gain in value. A Paul knife is great to use, interesting and fun to collect and a further reward is that they are a very good investment that is continually appreciating.
> 
> Paul holds over forty US and Foreign Utility Patents and numerous design patents. Over 20 of these Patents are for folding knife mechanisms. Besides being a great inventor, designer and product engineer, Paul is also an extremely talented custom knife maker. He is as good with his hands as he is with his inventive mind and this shows in all that Paul touches. He and Joanne are gourmet cooks and great hosts if you are lucky enough to be invited to a meal in their home. They live on a beautiful island in British Columbia, Canada. When he is not designing new products they travel, hike, kayak and garden. He continues to be a driving force for environmental protection and throughout his life has coveted the physical and natural beauty of the world.


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I like the idea of a pointed blade, and that last one is a great looking model. I'm gonna order that one. Thanks guys very much for your expertise.
> 
> Oh one last thing....knowing nothing about sharpening....what is your advice regarding this knife?
> 
> LOL....one more thing...going to that link I'm immediately drawn to that Defender 154 knife of the year, even at twice the price. I don't know the benefits between the two on a practical basis.


Sharpeners, here's a good one for light touch up;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001CQTLJM/?tag=cpf0b6-20

http://smithsedge.com/products/product.asp?id=8


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## gollum

Th232 said:


> Variable, but usually within the 3" range, +/-0.5". Knife clips are about the same as flashlight clips, so I'm getting some wear near the pocket's edge.
> 
> Of course, if I'm carrying a small FB (thanks Gollum!) then clip wear isn't an issue at all.




thanks mate 

I think the small fixed blade is the most overlooked edc

if its small enough to carry comfortably then it is a great option 






































or extreme fixed blade edc (joke)






.


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## Sgt. LED

I STILL need a small fixed.


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## RyanA

I dunno, it's weird but I like to carry one to slice and peel fruit. I got a whole bunch of Macintosh apples last week that had really thick skin. It made me glad I carry my Spyderco Salt 1 around. Far as I'm concerned it's the ultimate edc I like that it is innocuous (rounded tip, 3in blade) its slim and light and has a great clip, plus virtually no maintenance with the H1 steel. I've been thinking of getting a knife with titanium handles for something a bit dressier lately. Carry what you like. I wouldn't really think to much about defensive use. That's a bit of a Hollywood cliche. Chances are if someone else is going to mug you with a knife theirs will already be out and open. If you ask me you're better off running if it's an option, rather than engaging in a "knife fight". Most places the law sees it that way too.:shrug:
Don't get me wrong I still have a few auto's I keep mainly for the fun/cool factor. But I typically don't carry them.


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## LuxLuthor

I ordered that LW-45 model from AG Russel, and the sharpener from Amazon. Thanks again!


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## Raoul_Duke

LuxLuthor said:


> I ordered that LW-45 model from AG Russel, and the sharpener from Amazon. Thanks again!



LOL....and So It begins. :nana:

I used to collect knives....lots.....(99% folding pocket knives) before I started ( heavily) on flashlights  ....I still have some good ones...But I dont have the same hunger for them anymore....I was always hunting for the perfect EDC...I dont think I ever found it...yet, but I have come close.

I carry a knife with me almost everyday...( sometimes more than one) but that is not as crazy as it sounds. I'm no knife fighter, haven't ever been......despite being in fights, whilst having knives in my pockets, I never, Ever, even considerd using it...never even thought about it.

I carry because I need & use them; that & I think a gentlemen should have a small pocket knife about their person, & be skilled and able to use it.

We are in a prepacked society today, so a pocket knives are used less than they were, but I would be lost without one.

Living in the UK we are restricted by laws...but fairly sensible knife carry/ use if you ask me. there are still a few good choices to be had... I used to carry a locking folder as my work required it.

I tended to go towards the "harder use knives" as I would use them for tasks that knives shoulden't be used for...Why...because I'm not a purist, and there is something staisfying about completing a multitude of tasks with just a pocket knife, just today I used my pocket knife to fix 3 little niggly little problems on my car whilst it was getting a thourough cleaning, and I only used it to cut once.


----------



## znaps

Yucca Patrol said:


> Knives and fire are what separate us from the animals.



What separates us from the animals is superstition and meaningless rituals.


----------



## RyanA

I don't get the no locking knives in England thing. I think that would potentially cause more injuries. I remember fixing some desks in art class in high school with an old Swiss army knife and darn near hacking my index finger off when I pressed down on the screwdriver blade. It bled like crazy, I've still got the scar and a little divot in my finger.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Raoul_Duke said:


> LOL....and So It begins. :nana:.



Noooooo.....it can't be like the flashlight bug. I can just buy this one and appreciate it, and not feel the need to buy any more, right? Please say yes even if it is a lie. I'll try wearing my :tinfoil:


----------



## Lightraven

There aren't any laws that prohibit defensive violence, but that violence must be reasonable under the circumstances. A knife would require realistic threat of serious injury to justify it's use. 

Here are two real life San Diego examples of justified knife use:

A gang attacks a woman, presumably to rape her. She stabs one in the leg, and he bleeds to death, if I recall. The others run away. No prosecution.

A pair of robbers in a car pull up to an older man walking on the sidewalk and one gets out with a handgun, demanding money. The victim stabs the gunman and he drops his gun. The driver shoots at the victim but misses. The victim picks up the handgun and returns fire, killing the first robber. No prosecution.


----------



## Sgt. LED

Women and older folks in general usually don't get into much trouble for self defense. 
As it should be IMO, but you or me now that's another story.


----------



## Lightraven

Correct, the threshhold for reasonable violence--especially with a knife--is highest for healthy men between 16 and about 60 years old.

Here's a real life counter example (again from San Diego):

A guy in his 20's enters a bar/restaurant and picks an argument with another similar guy and his wife/girlfriend. He's thrown out by the restaurant staff. He waits in the parking lot and accosts the couple as they leave. There is a fight, starting unarmed, but the solo guy begins losing and pulls a knife and kills the other. He claims self defense. Prosecuted for murder.

Both men are reportedly mixed martial arts practitioners. The "winner" of the fight is heavily tattooed, with a large tattoo of a blue hand on his face. He wasn't seriously injured in the fight. I haven't heard any resolution, so I presume he pled guilty, or it is still working through the system.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Yes.... 

You can just buy one. ( it's just which one is 'the One'?)

I sent you a PM on the Most popular 'one'....or maybee it was two of three :thinking:




LuxLuthor said:


> Noooooo.....it can't be like the flashlight bug. I can just buy this one and appreciate it, and not feel the need to buy any more, right? Please say yes even if it is a lie. I'll try wearing my :tinfoil:


----------



## Raoul_Duke

RyanA said:


> I don't get the no locking knives in England thing. I think that would potentially cause more injuries. I remember fixing some desks in art class in high school with an old Swiss army knife and darn near hacking my index finger off when I pressed down on the screwdriver blade. It bled like crazy, I've still got the scar and a little divot in my finger.



In short it was a case law thing....we used to be able to have a 3" or less locking folder....then one cocky guy went to court and the judge ruled that his 3" locker was a fixed blade...Wrong interpretation of the guidelines behind the legislation...but it set a precident....So now its non lockers unless you have a good reason...no higher court or court of apeal will ever go back.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Noooooo.....it can't be like the flashlight bug. I can just buy this one and appreciate it, and not feel the need to buy any more, right? Please say yes even if it is a lie. I'll try wearing my :tinfoil:


MuHaHaHa :eeksign: Sorry about your wallet bro.


----------



## RyanA

LOL. Lux wait until the next best "gotta have it" steel comes out.:nana:


----------



## Oddjob

The Spyderco Sharpmaker is great for maintaining your edge.


----------



## kwkarth

Lux,
You need to read up on knife sharpening before you start messing around much with the edge. The Sharpener you already bought should keep you in good stead until you're ready to move on. Many good manufacturers will re-sharpen your knife for little to no fee, other than postage both ways. Just call them and ask.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Oddjob said:


> The Spyderco Sharpmaker is great for maintaining your edge.



Its certanly not a bad sharpener...but still takes a little bit of skill...or more than that patience...I hate slipping of the end and dulling the tip. It works alot better with clean rods ( have to keep re cleaning if doing a reprofiling job....I have the ultra fine rods aswell that help.

I prefer the Edgepro (Apex though havent used or seen the 'Pro' but id like one....but they are both a bit more spendy...Still worth it if you want all your knives inc kitchen etc to cut like a frickin laser beam


----------



## smflorkey

LuxLuthor said:


> How long are the knives that you guys always carry in your pockets? I'm trying to think how much I would use it during my day...and if it wears a hole in your pocket. Certainly being outside hiking/camping it would be essential. I'm still thinking about them. It's probably one of those things that once you have it you see more of a value in it. Not sure what model, length is most "practical."


My current EDC includes:
- Boker Trance (slightly less than 3" blade)
- Letherman squirt S4 multi-tool with a 1-3/8" blade
- Photon Micro Light
- iTP C7T

I'm looking for a Spyderco Endura (4" blade) to potentially replace the Boker. Part of the consideration for a pocket knife is something that is thin enough to be comfortable and smooth enough to not wear holes in pockets (but not so smooth I cannot hold on to it ).

I used to limit myself to things the size of the squirt multi-tool or smaller, but I find the larger knives give me a much better grip and easier deployment for all kinds of everyday tasks (opening mail, opening plastic bags of all kinds of stuff, removing stray threads, ...). Most larger knives are designed to be opened with one hand which I find pretty handy. (Is that a pun? I hope that's a pun. I love puns. ) I think (hope?) this daily familiarity with a blade on the large side of 'pocketable' may work to my favor in the extremely rare chance I need a defensive weapon (and I do have some training as a peace officer -- a few years ago in a different state). 

It's just another tool that should fit your needs. You don't EDC a USL; neither should you EDC a machete. Some cities or states don't like anything over a certain length so you adjust your EDC accordingly. Neither do you try to carry a beautiful custom flashlight with an aggressive strike bezel on an airplane. The tool should be useful and fit your needs, including not getting locked up for being prepared. But you knew that.


----------



## Patriot

I missed this thread until today but just wanted to say that I think it's neat that you're checking out the knife scene Lux. I've been hooked on them since grade school. I used to save my pennies so that I could pick out a knife at the local gun shows as a youngster. During the last 5 years most of my interest has been in lights but I've still managed to pick up a few knives. While I don't always have a light on my person when out of the house during the day I do have a knife. I think that after a while of carrying them you tend to realize how often you have need of one. After a while flicking open a blade and cutting something is a natural as scrapping at something with your finger nail. You hardly even think about it. 

I see that you ordered 1 or 2 knives so let us know what you think. I could see you as the type of person who would find a little 2-3" blade very handy and practical. This Spyderco Sage came to mind since I know that you appreciate a certain amount of elegance in your tools. The CF Native is also a striking little knife as well. I once dressed and skined an entire mule deer with a Native and it performed admirably


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Lux, I just read your first post, and I would have never guessed that you would want to run away from a fight after having read some of your posts, where you have gone one on one with some of our members. Welcome to knives. BTW, are you going to SHOT 2010? If so, there is a world of knives there.

Bill


----------



## kwkarth

Patriot said:


> I missed this thread until today but just wanted to say that I think it's neat that you're checking out the knife scene Lux. I've been hooked on them since grade school. I used to save my pennies so that I could pick out a knife at the local gun shows as a youngster. During the last 5 years most of my interest has been in lights but I've still managed to pick up a few knives. While I don't always have a light on my person when out of the house during the day I do have a knife. I think that after a while of carrying them you tend to realize how often you have need of one. After a while flicking open a blade and cutting something is a natural as scrapping at something with your finger nail. You hardly even think about it.
> 
> I see that you ordered 1 or 2 knives so let us know what you think. I could see you as the type of person who would find a little 2-3" blade very handy and practical. This Spyderco Sage came to mind since I know that you appreciate a certain amount of elegance in your tools. The CF Native is also a striking little knife as well. I once dressed and skined an entire mule deer with a Native and it performed admirable.



Both the Sage and the Native are very nice knives you suggested!
Cheers!
Kevin


----------



## jzmtl

Patriot said:


> I see that you ordered 1 or 2 knives so let us know what you think. I could see you as the type of person who would find a little 2-3" blade very handy and practical. This Spyderco Sage came to mind since I know that you appreciate a certain amount of elegance in your tools. The CF Native is also a striking little knife as well. I once dressed and skined an entire mule deer with a Native and it performed admirable.



If you like the CF native, look here.


----------



## Patriot

jzmtl said:


> If you like the CF native, look here.




Wowee! Best price on that knife I've ever seen! Thanks man.


----------



## carrot

By the way if you want to snag one you'd better do it fast... I hear the Native4 (CF) is on the chopping block this year and getting discontinued.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

jzmtl said:


> If you like the CF native, look here.



OMG its Fugly :green: I hadn't seen V4 yet.

I think I will have to get one, it looks like it would be a great user.


----------



## Patriot

Raoul_Duke said:


> OMG its Fugly :green:




Are we talking about the same knife?


----------



## Raoul_Duke

Patriot said:


> Are we talking about the same knife?



Yep all Spyderco's are Ugly IMHO...That may be a slightly better looker than some spydies...but I have been away from collecting for a while now, and it was a bit of a supprise looking at a new spydie I haven seen a pic of before, and true to form, they all still get beaten with the ugly stick when they start life..

Saying that is only a small part of the story though. 
The important part is They are realy great Tools!!! probably some of the best out there; function over form and all that...the customer service and the people who own the co. are first class also!!!!!!!!

If I had to recomend a brand ( To lux or anyone new to knives)...for value, variety and quality I would say spyderco.

But I woulden't buy a spyderco on looks/ There are far better lookers out there...

Guess what I have clipped in my pocket right now...thats right a Spyderco


----------



## Patriot

Hmm, well I guess to my way of thinking, form often follows function. If you have a form that works good, it often follows that it looks good as well. I wouldn't say that I have an artistic eye but I appreciate artistic machinery whether it's a Ferrari or an Omega watch. I've recognized that early Spyderco designs were a departure from the typical pocket knife but now in an age where everyone is producing their own tactical folders and EDCs they appear completely conventional to me. The Native is perhaps one of the most popular knives in Spyderco's line and except for the blade hole it would almost be indistinguishable from several dozen other similar models from other manufacturers. Obviously looks are subjective but Spyderco has been immensely successful not just with users, but eye candy seekers and collectors as well. In today's factory knife industry I'd be hard pressed to think of the Native as anything but elegantly normative in design. If it's ugly I don't know what would be considered "pretty."


----------



## LuxLuthor

The US 45 is a great choice. Man that sucker is sharp enough to shave hairs off my arm. I already cut my index finger trying a one handed close. LOL! That's what God invented bandaids for.

I imagine that Smith Edge Grip sharpener won't get it to that degree.


----------



## stallion2

if your primary interest is a small folder to keep on you then you might like a ceramic blade. you'll never have to worry about the blade rusting and you may die of old age before you ever have to sharpen it. the drawback is you'll chip the hell out of it if you try any task requiring an impact, even a slight one. my favorite maker would have to be CRKT. they might have the most ridiculously diverse product line, fixed and folding. some are obviously purpose built for self-defense or military/emergency use, others are made just to look pretty. they're pretty inexpensive as well. theirs are just as good as my SOGs, Benchmades, Spydercos, Bucks, etc. but cost a 3rd less. i'd easily have paid more for most of the CRKTs i have. stay away from Gerber. some people swear by them, i think they're garbage. i've never had one that went more than 12 months before rusting. if you really want to learn more then look up a man named Jay Fisher. he's a private smith and has a website under his name that has a tremendous collection of information. 

for self-defense....carry a gun. you at least don't have to be proficient w/ it to protect yourself. however, a knife in the hands of a novice...you may find yourself arming your attacker when you were only trying to protect yourself.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> The US 45 is a great choice.
> 
> I imagine that Smith Edge Grip sharpener won't get it to that degree.



Yup, it should as long as you're very gentle, steady, and precise with its use.

Congrats on your new knife. I'm glad you like it. Lone Wolf makes great knives, and Oregon's economy thanks you for your choice.


----------



## kwkarth

stallion2 said:


> if your primary interest is a small folder to keep on you then you might like a ceramic blade. you'll never have to worry about the blade rusting and you may die of old age before you ever have to sharpen it. the drawback is you'll chip the hell out of it if you try any task requiring an impact, even a slight one. my favorite maker would have to be CRKT. they might have the most ridiculously diverse product line, fixed and folding. some are obviously purpose built for self-defense or military/emergency use, others are made just to look pretty. they're pretty inexpensive as well. theirs are just as good as my SOGs, Benchmades, Spydercos, Bucks, etc. but cost a 3rd less. i'd easily have paid more for most of the CRKTs i have. stay away from Gerber. some people swear by them, i think they're garbage. i've never had one that went more than 12 months before rusting. if you really want to learn more then look up a man named Jay Fisher. he's a private smith and has a website under his name that has a tremendous collection of information.
> 
> for self-defense....carry a gun. you at least don't have to be proficient w/ it to protect yourself. however, a knife in the hands of a novice...you may find yourself arming your attacker when you were only trying to protect yourself.


Hey, how'd this turn into a self defense issue? Lux wanted a pocket knife, for crying out loud!


----------



## stallion2

kwkarth said:


> Hey, how'd this turn into a self defense issue? Lux wanted a pocket knife, for crying out loud!


 
i realize this. i was simply addressing one of the comments he made in his first post.


----------



## kwkarth

stallion2 said:


> i realize this. i was simply addressing one of the comments he made in his first post.



Sorry that I overreacted.  I have been a bit surprised at seemingly so many have assumed the knife was wanted for self defense purposes even though Lux made it really clear that self defense was not what the OP was interested in. Look at all the suggestions in this thread for knives whose only possible use was for self defense/offensive purposes.


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> The US 45 is a great choice. Man that sucker is sharp enough to shave hairs off my arm. I already cut my index finger trying a one handed close. LOL! That's what God invented bandaids for.





So glad that you're enjoying it Lux. One of the traditions on the knife forums it to post a picture of your wounds....lol.


----------



## karlthev

kwkarth said:


> Sorry that I overreacted.  I have been a bit surprised at seemingly so many have assumed the knife was wanted for self defense purposes even though Lux made it really clear that self defense was not what the OP was interested in. Look at all the suggestions in this thread for knives whose only possible use was for self defense/offensive purposes.





I commented on the defense aspect because it was clear that Lux did not want a knife for that purpose but did mention it in his initial post. Threads go in many directions in accord with the readers. No harm, no foul.


Karl


----------



## kwkarth

matrixshaman said:


> A knife is what you use to rip / cut open your flashlight packages. How can you be a real flashaholic without one?
> ...


Lux,
This is one of the best uses of a good pocket knife that I have seen, and used, BTW. :candle: Thanks for the suggestion matrixshaman! 

Lux, opening blister paks is also one of the best ways to cut yourself, so be careful!! Really!


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I generally have one of these:





SOG Twitch XL (black) and Twitch II (gray)

OR the top knife in this pic:




Benchmade 553

Clipped in the back of my RF jeans pocket.

I used to carry the bottom knife in the above pic in my LFP (Schrade 3OT) but that blade won't hold an edge very well.

So now I carry:




All with carbon steel blades (rotate them).

The steel in the SOGs and the Benchmade is good stuff that will take and hold an edge.

But NOTHING gets as sharp as these old carbon blades!

And besides, my Grandpa always carried and used knives like the last pic so why shouldn't I?

In my old job I needed a knife pretty often. Not sure how often I'll need when my new job gets going in Nov.

But buy almost anything in a store nowadays and you need a knife to get into the packaging!


----------



## tinker gnome

LuxLuthor said:


> Man that sucker is sharp enough to shave hairs off my arm.



Lol, Lux, you just discovered the secret distinctive mark of real knife fans :laughing:


----------



## Patriot

tinker gnome said:


> Lol, Lux, you just discovered the secret distinctive mark of real knife fans :laughing:




Yep, we're all arm bald or have smooth patches...haha.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

One of the main annual workout my pocket knives get is Christmas...where all my sons new toy boxes need opening; All that anti theft wire they wrap around every component nowerdays :shakehead:
One of my hardier pocket knives get a good workout cutting all that lot up....I suppose that a pair of wire cutters would work also, for the theft wire anyway...but there is great pleasure in cutting up all the boxes & packaging down to size without having to leave the room for the tool box.
A good thick blade, tough blade steel, a ruthless convex grind and a little brut force and ignorance gets the job done


----------



## LuxLuthor

Bullzeyebill said:


> Lux, I just read your first post, and I would have never guessed that you would want to run away from a fight after having read some of your posts, where you have gone one on one with some of our members. Welcome to knives. BTW, are you going to SHOT 2010? If so, there is a world of knives there.
> 
> Bill



Bill, I firmly believe in the right to defend yourself/family if sufficiently threatened, and no way out. However IMHO, most physical fights are due to macho "cave man" stupidity, pent of emotions--leading to poor self-control, ignorance, growing up where socio-economic conditions promote a culture of violence, unwillingness to try and work out a problem in a non-violent way, or some degree of mental illness. I have seen plenty of bullies who use physical agression as a way of dominating others, and find it disgusting. 

It is a lot easier to avoid all that nonsense, apologize, or walk away rather than one or more parties ending up in an emergency room or police station.

Some of my discussions with members here are intellectual challenges to their set way of thinking, or questioning certain viewpoints that do not seem to be well thought out. A number of people are exceptionally superficial, thin-skinned, and/or look for the most negative of possible inferences or connotations, and jump to a conclusion that fits their stereotypes.

You can never tell who a person is from online forum posts, or what they really meant without seeing their body language or having a more in depth discussion. People make snap & shallow judgements about others, then talk behind their back getting a few others to agree with them, and put that person "in a box," which is always a mistake, yet typical behavior of an insecure person. I guarantee that each of us are infinitely more complex than the sum of our forum posts.



Patriot said:


> So glad that you're enjoying it Lux. One of the traditions on the knife forums it to post a picture of your wounds....lol.



Oh this is a pretty minor one, almost healed, and only 1/2" long...but if that's the rules:





I am tempted to get that Edge Pro system that Raoul_Duke mentioned. I don't have any of my kitchen knives that can shave arm hair. The little Smith sharpener that kwkarth mentioned is pretty good, but I can see the value in a device that has the features of the Edge Pro.


----------



## Patriot

Good one Lux, but I am glad that you kept it minor. I've been fortunate not to have had any accidents in recent years after much daily use. :sweat:







> *Lux Luthor
> *It is a lot easier to avoid all that nonsense, apologize, or walk away rather than one or more parties ending up in an emergency room or police station.


btw Lux, I forgot to mention that I applaud you for your real life common sense. There are a lot of times when "flight" is the far superior option to "fight." There are also those "rare" (depending on exposure and profession) circumstances when we're faced with such evil viciousness that we're left with no other option but to tenaciously defend ourselves. I generally grant the benefit of the doubt that most reasonable and squared away people have enough discernment to judge between a fight over a parking space at Walmart and a life threatening encounter. I especially grant you this benefit of the doubt, having read many of your posts and PM's over the years. I knew exactly what you meant in your first post.  I just think you're a darn cool dude the way that you enjoy so many different things and now to see you enthusiastic about knives and sharpening is just plain neat.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Thanks for your kind words, Patriot. Ditto x 5 !

OK, the good news is I have not yet bought any more knives. 

The bad news is that Raoul_Duke has apparently developed an irrepressable ability to exert a confounding, yet mystifying form of mind control persuasion on innocent bystanders--thereby forcing them to buy this Edge Pro 2 sharpening kit. 

I'm now imagining a scenario, whereupon one finds one's self with the aforementioned kit, and which now, in and of itself, has the power of inducing said owner to acquire additional blades which will allow it to fulfill its destiny.


----------



## Radiophile

LuxLuthor said:


> The bad news is that Raoul_Duke has apparently developed an irrepressable ability to exert a confounding, yet mystifying form of mind control persuasion on innocent bystanders--thereby forcing them to buy this Edge Pro 2 sharpening kit.



Should you succumb and purchase said device, please be so kind as to enlighten us with your impression of same. I've been avoiding that purchase for more than five years now.

Recently I started stropping as the finishing step in my sharpening routine and I'm impressed with the results.


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> The bad news is that Raoul_Duke has apparently developed an irrepressable ability to exert a confounding, yet mystifying form of mind control persuasion on innocent bystanders--thereby forcing them to buy this Edge Pro 2 sharpening kit.





As Vader would say, "your conversion to the dark side is nearly complete" lol!

I think that's the best straight angle sharpener in existence! The great thing is that a consistent angle doesn't depend upon user skill like every other sharpening method and is therefor perfect for noobies or pro's alike. A few years ago I started convex edge sharping many of my knives which I prefer a for my uses. Still, stone sharpened edges are popular and effective. You'll have some serious fun with that thing Lux!


----------



## LuxLuthor

I've seen info on stropping, and several other systems, but once I saw what the edge was on this Lone Wolf US45, I don't think I could go back to the land of ignorant bliss...where I actually thought the Samarai Shark was THE answer...I mean Billy Mays told me it was, and look where he is today! Oh wait....

LOL! I love what he does to that loaf of bread and tomato.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

LuxLuthor said:


> Thanks for your kind words, Patriot. Ditto x 5 !
> 
> OK, the good news is I have not yet bought any more knives.
> 
> The bad news is Raoul_Duke :devil:



What took you so long to make your mind up :nana:

You now get to chose your edge....Toothy for cutting rope, Tomatoes etc ( on the courser stones) Or polished for max edge hoding and push cutting/ shaving. 

Either way you will be able to shave whatever stage you take it to :twothumbs

Hard to be blissfully ignorant once inducted!! :sick2:


----------



## LuxLuthor

I will definitely be approaching this from a beginner's level. I don't understand why various sharpening angles are used, but this Lone Wolf knife appears to be a fairly narrow edge when I compare it to other kitchen knives. Maybe they discuss that on the DVD that comes with it.

How come more of you who have large knife collections have not gotten this system?


----------



## Th232

Personally, I've used a Spyderco Sharpmaker and never had any reason to look for anything else. That's just me though, and YMMV.

Regarding edges, there're two main characteristics for me, the angle and how toothy it is.

The narrower the angle, as you put it, the better a cutter it will be. However that means there's less steel behind the edge and so it will also be more fragile. How fragile will depend on several things like the steel type and heat treatment. Also note that the edge can only take you part of the way, the blade's grind is also a fairly big consideration.

How toothy an edge is was described pretty well by Raoul, it really depends on what you're cutting.

Hope this helps.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I started out using Crock Sticks which is nothing more than large size Lansky.

It depends on you holding the knife just so to the sticks.

Now I use a Sheffield Pocket Steel free hand and sometimes one of the sticks free hand.

I can't get them so sharp they scare the hair off but many of them will go through paper like a hot knife through butter.

And the steel rides in my shirt pocket for jobs away from home.

I hope to get a set of Grizzly Paper Wheels for the knives that need more as re-profiling is not one of my strong suits.


----------



## Oddjob

Knives are like flashlights... buy one and then you are hooked. Although my buying stopped after I got my Sebbie I still every now and then have the urge to get more. I'd like to get an EdgePro one day but since I only need to maintain my edges and not reprofile them I'll hold off.


----------



## Kingfisher

I say if a SAK fit's your needs - that's _all_ you need.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I've seen info on stropping, and several other systems, but once I saw what the edge was on this Lone Wolf US45, I don't think I could go back to the land of ignorant bliss...where I actually thought the Samarai Shark was THE answer...I mean Billy Mays told me it was, and look where he is today! Oh wait....
> 
> LOL! I love what he does to that loaf of bread and tomato.



Some time we're going to have to talk about kitchen knives!! In preparation, check out Kershaw / Shun knives...


----------



## Jagged

I have enough knives (both custom and production) that I could probably sell them and use the proceeds to buy a nice car... I'm now trying to avoid doing that with flashlights...

I have a William Henry Carbon Fiber (model 10 I think) that I carry daily at the office. Great choice for me at the office as it is light weight and I never notice it. It isn't my choice for heavy use; but you need more than one anyway. 

One piece of advice that I learned accidently... Handle several, buy a nice one that you really like, and then put some big scratches on it. That will greatly lower the resell value so you can stop worrying about the value and start actually using it.


----------



## kwkarth

Jagged said:


> I have enough knives (both custom and production) that I could probably sell them and use the proceeds to buy a nice car... I'm now trying to avoid doing that with flashlights...
> 
> I have a William Henry Carbon Fiber (model 10 I think) that I carry daily at the office. Great choice for me at the office as it is light weight and I never notice it. It isn't my choice for heavy use; but you need more than one anyway.
> 
> One piece of advice that I learned accidently... Handle several, buy a nice one that you really like, and then put some big scratches on it. That will greatly lower the resell value so you can stop worrying about the value and start actually using it.



I have managed not to scratch any of my William Henry's yet, but I do EDC them.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Very nice collection of William Henry's. :twothumbs
Bill


----------



## kwkarth

Bullzeyebill said:


> Very nice collection of William Henry's. :twothumbs
> Bill



Thanks Bill! Did you know that WH collaborates with Benchmade more than a little? We seem to have a real critical mass of knifemakers here in Oregon.

The William Henry knives are just so beautifully made, it's hard to resist. 

Incidentally, the unit below is a full auto, ZDP-189 core damascus, mokame frame, and wooly mamoth bone scales and citrine stud, 09 of 10.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

LuxLuthor said:


> How come more of you who have large knife collections have not gotten this system?



Money...or lack of, (without compremising my lifestyle. )

I figured it would go down in price maybee  
But the years went by, the ££ dropped Vs $$ and The Edgepro went up in price 

& Every time I had the ££, a new knife would be in my reach...I'd get into hotwires, or *somebody* would start the Ellephant collection mindgames...or such like, so I would spend all my $$$ on that 

So I made do with what I had to hand...and used my hard work to get an edge.

Still looking at getting one from the US though.:green:


----------



## LuxLuthor

I'll let you know how it works starting with a novice.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I'll let you know how it works starting with a novice.



I'm sure it will work fine Lux!
Did you get the Edge Pro or the Apex system? Which model?


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> I'm sure it will work fine Lux!
> Did you get the Edge Pro or the Apex system? Which model?



I got the Pro Kit 2 package. I thought seriously about getting the scissors attachment, but figured I could add that later if needed.

What do you use the polishing tapes for?


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> What do you use the polishing tapes for?




It used for different levels of edge finishing Lux, since the tapes run finer than the stones. You'll need to attach them to the backs of aluminum or glass blanks.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I got the Pro Kit 2 package. I thought seriously about getting the scissors attachment, but figured I could add that later if needed.
> 
> What do you use the polishing tapes for?



What Patriot said!  The tapes are sort of the modern equivalent of stropping.


----------



## themclush

I have a handful of knives from the major makers.
Current favorite is a "Twitch" from SOG. It is well made and opens at a touch. I don't believe it would be much use in a knife fight, but for those I carry a .45.


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> What Patriot said!  The tapes are sort of the modern equivalent of stropping.



But I mean is it to get that final split a hair edge, or is it likely the stones will get it that far?


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> But I mean is it to get that final split a hair edge, or is it likely the stones will get it that far?



With the kit you have, you can get shaving sharp, but the tapes will let you sharpen up enough to split hairs lengthwise.

I started collecting knives back in the '60s, and back then, was a bit more steady with my hands, so I freehand sharpened all of them with just a Gerber folding steel. They were all easily shaving sharp. Now I doubt I could do the same thing. Your setup looks great because it maintains the exact angle from start to finish. That's the critical piece of the puzzle. You should be able to touch up a knife in a couple of minutes with that and like they say, a five second touch up on a fine ceramic stick will be all you need most of the time.

Very cool!


----------



## commodorewheeler

LuxLuthor said:


> I have never bought a "major" knife. I think the only knives I have ever bought was a Swiss Army and a Rapala fishing filet knife. Sometimes I read some posts in this section, and I try to figure how I would use a nice knife. It's hard to imagine having it in my pocket all the time, and I can't imagine using it as a defensive weapon....I'd surely poke my own eye out somehow. I'm more of a run than fight kind of a guy, and have never been in a fight in my life.
> 
> Do you guys get them to a large degree as an admiration of the quality/workmanship....almost being like a shelf queen?



I collect knives in large part because I admire the craftsmanship that goes into a handmade piece, but I carry and use a small percentage of my collection as well. I'm not a big self-defense kind of guy either, but a well made custom knife makes a great tool to have around.


----------



## Raoul_Duke

kwkarth said:


> With the kit you have, you can get shaving sharp, but the tapes will let you sharpen up enough to split hairs lengthwise.



The Man Speaks the Truth. :thumbsup: Hairs split or whittled length wize is possible 

The coarse blade will slice better, but the Polished blade will push though things better.

You have to find the ballance. ( You may need more knives for this. :naughty:  )

Try it on a few knives you dont want to screw up the finish on untill proficient!!


----------



## kwkarth

Raoul_Duke said:


> The Man Speaks the Truth. :thumbsup: Hairs split or whittled length wize is possible
> 
> The coarse blade will slice better, but the Polished blade will push though things better.
> 
> You have to find the ballance. ( You may need more knives for this. :naughty:  )
> 
> Try it on a few knives you dont want to screw up the finish on untill proficient!!



I love it when I'm in kitchen prepping something, and I grab one of my Shun's and rather than having to slice through something, I just lay the blade to something and sort of guide the blade through whatever I'm cutting, almost letting gravity do the work.


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> But I mean is it to get that final split a hair edge, or is it likely the stones will get it that far?





kwkarth already gave a great answer, but to give the question some relevance, using your new sharpener and a 600 grit stone will probably give you the sharpest knife edge that you've ever experienced. It's certainly enough for a great utility or kitchen edge anyway. You can imaging how incredible sharp the edge could be polished even using 2000 grit tape, never mind 4000 or 6000. 

I'm slightly jealous btw....


----------



## LuxLuthor

commodorewheeler said:


> I collect knives in large part because I admire the craftsmanship that goes into a handmade piece, but I carry and use a small percentage of my collection as well. I'm not a big self-defense kind of guy either, but a well made custom knife makes a great tool to have around.


For me personally, that Lone Wolf .45 was probably the perfect recommendation. I love the quality, blade action/locking, sharpness (I have never known in a knife), fine detailing...and at a comparatively modest price to see if it was going to be an fitting interest. Getting the Edge Pro became a pretty easy decision afterwards....so I hear what you and others are saying now.



Raoul_Duke said:


> The Man Speaks the Truth. :thumbsup: Hairs split or whittled length wize is possible
> 
> 
> kwkarth said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the kit you have, you can get shaving sharp, but the tapes will let you sharpen up enough to split hairs lengthwise.
> 
> I started collecting knives back in the '60s, and back then, was a bit more steady with my hands, so I freehand sharpened all of them with just a Gerber folding steel. They were all easily shaving sharp. Now I doubt I could do the same thing. Your setup looks great because it maintains the exact angle from start to finish. That's the critical piece of the puzzle. You should be able to touch up a knife in a couple of minutes with that and like they say, a five second touch up on a fine ceramic stick will be all you need most of the time.
> 
> Very cool!
Click to expand...


I can't even imagine that. At this point, that sounds like something from The Matrix. Do you have to take the blue pill first?



Raoul_Duke said:


> The coarse blade will slice better, but the Polished blade will push though things better.



I realize I don't have these distinctions to understand what you are saying. I only have common kitchen knives like you would buy a set at Sears or Macys. I can't remember the last time I bought a kitchen, table, or steak knife. If I am slicing/dicing vegetables I use the same knife I would use to cut a whole tenderloin into filet mignons for grilling. Some knives have serations on them, but I don't understand what the real intended purpose of those are either.

The only knife I probably do understand is my bread knife for when I bake my own stone ground hard red winter wheat bread. 


Raoul_Duke said:


> You have to find the ballance. ( You may need more knives for this. :naughty:  )


I think that is a forgone conclusion. The fun thing will be to see what this sharpener does on some old knives. When I say old knives here is thumb to high res photo of pretty much all the kitchen knives I have, most of them are dull as a table flatware knife, unless I did the Smith sharpener edge I just got. 



​


Raoul_Duke said:


> Try it on a few knives you dont want to screw up the finish on untill proficient!!



No shortage of "El Crappo" knives in above photo.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> ​
> No shortage of "El Crappo" knives in above photo.



Lux, I think you may be surprised with the edge you can get on those Old Chicago high carbon knives you've got. They take a pretty nice edge for an inexpensive knife.


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> Lux, I think you may be surprised with the edge you can get on those *Old Chicago high carbon knives* you've got. They take a pretty nice edge for an inexpensive knife.



Is that an "Al Capone" colloquial term, as I didn't see that brand name on any in that photo? I'm not sure what is a "high carbon knife." 

You got my interest in reading about those Shun Knives. I see in the 8" Chef size, there is the Classic,  Pro-2, Ken Onion, and Elite model --but which is the best? Seems like Elite is better from reading this link, but the Pro-2 is the most expensive.


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> I realize I don't have these distinctions to understand what you are saying. I only have common kitchen knives like you would buy a set at Sears or Macys. I can't remember the last time I bought a kitchen, table, or steak knife. If I am slicing/dicing vegetables I use the same knife I would use to cut a whole tenderloin into filet mignons for grilling. Some knives have serations on them, but I don't understand what the real intended purpose of those are either.





What *Raoul Duke* was referring to when he made the comment:



> Originally Posted by *Raoul_Duke*
> 
> 
> _The coarse blade will slice better, but the Polished blade will push though things better._



.....was that the stone finished edges will slice better when drawn across a surface, think, loaf of bread. This is because it has serrations on a microscopic scale which acts as a saw blade. Drawing the cutting edge is very similar to drawing a cut with a saw blade or a serrated bread knife. The polished edges, those fished with polishing tape, leave progressively less micro texture on the cutting edge. This extremely smooth edge doesn't work as well in a drawing action for most materials but works incredibly well for press cuts. Think of pushing through an apple or cutting a piece of para cord while it's flat on a wooden workbench. Polished edges are great on smaller blade lengths were you simply don't have a lot of room to draw back with. On longer blades you often have the option for a long pull cut, like you'd use cutting through steak so a polished edge may not be critical or even desired.




By the way Lux, those blades in your picture are going to sharpen up just fine. In fact, I think you'll be mighty impressed!


----------



## LuxLuthor

Perfect explanation & examples of slice/push. Thank you sir! So hold off on the Shuns, then?

It will be interesting to see what is on the DVD that comes with the Edge Pro.


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> Perfect explanation & examples of slice/push. Thank you sir! So hold off on the Shuns, then?
> 
> It will be interesting to see what is on the DVD that comes with the Edge Pro.




You'll never hear the phrase, "hold off" from me brother. :naughty:

Given that the DVD for the $45 Spyderco Sharpmaker is pretty decent, My guess is that the DVD that comes with your rig is going to cover everything and then some.


----------



## stallion2

LuxLuthor said:


> Is that an "Al Capone" colloquial term, as I didn't see that brand name on any in that photo? I'm not sure what is a "high carbon knife."
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> it means that the alloy used has a relatively high concentration of carbon. this 'high' range is typically anywhere between 0.4-0.9% carbon which obviously doesn't sound like much but thats all it takes. the higher the carbon, the harder the steel. the advantage to typical stainless steel w/ a high carbon content is that its durable, holds its edge for a relatively long time and does so w/out being expensive like some more exotic alloys. the down side is that more carbon means there is less of some other compound in the alloy, usually chromium which is the compound responsible for resisting rust. in addition the presence of carbon making the metal harder also makes it more brittle. last, harder metals take longer to sharpen...but w/ the edge kit you bought...WOW! i'd say you're definitely taking the plunge.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Is that an "Al Capone" colloquial term, as I didn't see that brand name on any in that photo? I'm not sure what is a "high carbon knife."
> 
> You got my interest in reading about those Shun Knives. I see in the 8" Chef size, there is the Classic,  Pro-2, Ken Onion, and Elite model --but which is the best? Seems like Elite is better from reading this link, but the Pro-2 is the most expensive.


Lol! The ones with the old faded wood handles. They used to be sold under the "Old Chicago" brand name and the steel, though not rustfree, is usually better for edge holding than most of the stainless knives you can buy today.

See my PM about Shun model comparison. The Kaji model line seems to have the best steel. I love the look of the Ken Onion models, but they don't fit my hand as well as the Classics, so that's mostly what I use. Is that an Analon pan I see on the left? Best non stick pans I've ever used!


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Perfect explanation & examples of slice/push. Thank you sir! So hold off on the Shuns, then?
> 
> It will be interesting to see what is on the DVD that comes with the Edge Pro.



Heh, I was cutting through a 4" hard salami the other day, and the knife just about fell through the stuff. I could have made paper thin slices if I had wanted to. BTW, a sharp knife is MUCH safer than a dull one. I goes where you direct it, without you having to apply too much pressure. You're always in control that way. Always respect the edge.


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> Lol! The ones with the old faded wood handles. They used to be sold under the "Old Chicago" brand name and the steel, though not rustfree, is usually better for edge holding than most of the stainless knives you can buy today.
> 
> See my PM about Shun model comparison. The Kaji model line seems to have the best steel. I love the look of the Ken Onion models, but they don't fit my hand as well as the Classics, so that's mostly what I use. Is that an Analon pan I see on the left? Best non stick pans I've ever used!



Yeah that is the Calphalon with the lifetime warranty, which I already took them up on once. No receipt or box needed.

I called the KAI USA office today, and apparently the Elite and Kaji models are the highest quality steel, with Kaji being only sold at Sonoma, and Elite elsewhere. I'm thinking seriously about getting this set.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Yeah that is the Calphalon with the lifetime warranty, which I already took them up on once. No receipt or box needed.
> 
> I called the KAI USA office today, and apparently the Elite and Kaji models are the highest quality steel, with Kaji being only sold at Sonoma, and Elite elsewhere. I'm thinking seriously about getting this set.


That's a nice looking set!


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Yeah that is the Calphalon with the lifetime warranty, which I already took them up on once. No receipt or box needed.
> 
> I called the KAI USA office today, and apparently the Elite and Kaji models are the highest quality steel, with Kaji being only sold at Sonoma, and Elite elsewhere. I'm thinking seriously about getting this set.



Ya know, you're dangerous! You got me to looking at those knives and I found an even higher quality level from Shun...
http://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/cu148/?pkey=cknives-shun%7Ccutshnmei







*Shun Bob Kramer Meiji *
To create this exclusive collection, legendary Japanese knifemaker Shun partnered with the only master bladesmith in the U.S. who specializes in kitchen cutlery: Bob Kramer. 

Cutlery aficionados will wait years for a Kramer original – knives expertly tempered by Kramer's ten years of experience in professional kitchens and 15 years of building custom cutlery. Our collection, based on his hand-forged Meiji line, features Kramer's unrivaled craftsmanship, combined with Shun's knowledge of centuries-old Japanese knife-making traditions. This ultradurable razor-sharp chef's knife is the perfect size, shape and heft for chopping, dicing and mincing. 

An SG-2 steel cutting core is clad in brilliant 64-layer nickel stainless steel, yielding a supersharp blade with the look of Damascus steel. The smooth contoured handle is made entirely of richly grained cocobolo PakkaWood. 8" blade.


----------



## LuxLuthor

LOL! It is not easy to find out the exact facts of what is different between all these various categories of Shun knives.

I started reading about the Classic line from this link:



> The Shun Classic Series is easily identified by its beautiful wood grain look from the Damascus steel. The blade core, VG-10 super steel, is composed of carbon, chromium, vanadium, manganese, cobalt and molybdenum. This is clad with 16 layers of SUS410 high-carbon stainless steel on each side, creating a 33 layer rust-free Damascus look. This distinctive looking profile results is less friction when slicing, resulting in cleaner cuts and better flavor. Choose from traditional European shapes or the newly designed 'Alton's Angle' resulting in a more efficient slice for quicker food preparation.


The woman from KAI-USA said basically, you can use price as your guide of the quality...but I didn't even see the Meiji listed at their site here. Holy Moly on that model's price....a whole other quantum leap beyond even the Elite/Kaji. I may have to call KAI back again and have more conversations. I wonder how many layers are on the Elite/Kaji. I can see I need to get much more into this one brand. LOL!

Some good FAQ's here on their care. It is no longer a question of "if" I will get a Shun. It is now a question of which one(s).

I noticed this one negative review where the guy gave a Kaji a 1 star rating because he had issues with handle rivets being "an absolute mecca for bacteria." LOL! People are funny, and so transparent.

Hmmm....this review of the Elite line says:



> All Shun knives in the Elite series feature blades made with of a unique core of SG2, an exotic Japanese powdered steel. The advantage of powdered steel is that every element used to create it is evenly blended, eliminating weak spots and imperfections. The high density and ideal grain structure of the resulting SG-2 allows Shun to temper their steel to and extremely high hardness for an exceedingly sharp, smooth and durable blade. This amazing metal means that Elite series Shun knives stay sharp several times longer than comparable stainless cutlery. The knife is then clad with two layers of SUS410 - a softer stainless steel that provides strength, flexibility and corrosion protection. The ambidextrous PakkaWood handle is made by fusing layers of birch with a waterproof resin.


So it is now a question of comparing "two layers of SUS410" in Elite to "64-layer nickel stainless steel" in Meiji line. If there is a waiting line for Bob Kramer knives, that may explain some of the price difference.

Funny, and informative YouTube video.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL! It is not easy to find out the exact facts of what is different between all these various categories of Shun knives.
> 
> I started reading about the Classic line from this link:
> 
> The woman from KAI-USA said basically, you can use price as your guide of the quality...but I didn't even see the Meiji listed at their site here. Holy Moly on that model's price....a whole other quantum leap beyond even the Elite/Kaji. I may have to call KAI back again and have more conversations. I wonder how many layers are on the Elite/Kaji. I can see I need to get much more into this one brand. LOL!
> 
> Some good FAQ's here on their care. It is no longer a question of "if" I will get a Shun. It is now a question of which one(s).
> 
> I noticed this one negative review where the guy gave a Kaji a 1 star rating because he had issues with handle rivets being "an absolute mecca for bacteria." LOL! People are funny, and so transparent.
> 
> Hmmm....this review of the Elite line says:
> 
> So it is now a question of comparing "two layers of SUS410" in Elite to "64-layer nickel stainless steel" in Meiji line. If there is a waiting line for Bob Kramer knives, that may explain some of the price difference.
> 
> Funny, and informative YouTube video.


Ah, Good old Alton Brown, the man of cooking science renown. He's one of my favorites! For those of you that are old enough, Alton Brown is the Don Herbert of cooking. Anybody else remember Don Herbert?

As far as the complaint about the rivet... That guy needs to keep his knife handles out of the food! They'll cut better that way too!!


----------



## LuxLuthor

LOL! I think I now know about as much as you can find out after two more phone calls to several people at Kai. There is one other knife on the list at Sonoma, namely *Michel Bras* that is made in partnership with Shun, even more expensive than Meiji (however it does not use the SG-2 steel)

*Classic *has core of VG-10 with 32 folded layers giving the Damascus appearance.

*Elite *uses the SG-2 with 2 clad layers of 410A Stainless

*Kaji *uses SG-2 with 32 folded clad layers also giving the Damascus appearance. It is a bit heavier with the larger tang at end of symetrical (not D shaped) slightly curved handle and two rivets.

*Meiji *uses SG-2 with 64 folded layers, yet is a bit lighter than Kaji, and has the straighter profile and handle similar to classic. The additional layers give more side texturing to slightly reduce drag. She said on a practical basis it doesn't perform significantly better than Kaji. (Especially at the double price)

So, my instinct without feeling/seeing them in person is leaning towards the Kaji. The nearest Sonoma is an hour's drive. I'm trying to decide if it is worth driving to try them, or just order.


----------



## Patriot

If it was me I'd just order. You've got more information than most people probably ever bother with and I doubt you find out anything new by driving an hour each way. 

It would be a toss up between the Elite and Kaji for me. I'm more of a practical, plane jane kind of user when it comes to stuff like this and the SG-2 is really the key. 410A is a fine sandwiching material imo.

*EDIT*
P.S. the Michel Bras are actually very conventional if one is to just go by the specs. They seem to be using VG10 cores and 410A or 420J sandwich bread. Well, that's not much different than the Classic series other than the titanium coating. The Shuns seem to be much more desirable unless I'm missing something.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Patriot said:


> If it was me I'd just order. You've got more information than most people probably ever bother with and I doubt you find out anything new by driving an hour each way.
> 
> It would be a toss up between the Elite and Kaji for me. I'm more of a practical, plane jane kind of user when it comes to stuff like this and the SG-2 is really the key. 410A is a fine sandwiching material imo.
> 
> *EDIT*
> P.S. the Michel Bras are actually very conventional if one is to just go by the specs. They seem to be using VG10 cores and 410A or 420J sandwich bread. Well, that's not much different than the Classic series other than the titanium coating. The Shuns seem to be much more desirable unless I'm missing something.



Yeah, the driving thing is because people say you need to hold it in your hand, yada yada yada.

Technically, the Michel Bras is also a Shun knife, or at least a co-partnered Shun knife....but the SG-2 is "the money shot play," which ruled out the Michel Bras (well also because I don't want to be handling a sharp knife with a name that makes me think about things like this)





​Speaking of the sandwiching  


Oh yeah, we were talking about knives....the appeal and effect of the Damascus layers is noteworthy.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL! I think I now know about as much as you can find out after two more phone calls to several people at Kai. There is one other knife on the list at Sonoma, namely *Michel Bras* that is made in partnership with Shun, even more expensive than Meiji (however it does not use the SG-2 steel)
> 
> *Classic *has core of VG-10 with 32 folded layers giving the Damascus appearance.
> 
> *Elite *uses the SG-2 with 2 clad layers of 410A Stainless
> 
> *Kaji *uses SG-2 with 32 folded clad layers also giving the Damascus appearance. It is a bit heavier with the larger tang at end of symetrical (not D shaped) slightly curved handle and two rivets.
> 
> *Meiji *uses SG-2 with 64 folded layers, yet is a bit lighter than Kaji, and has the straighter profile and handle similar to classic. The additional layers give more side texturing to slightly reduce drag. She said on a practical basis it doesn't perform significantly better than Kaji. (Especially at the double price)
> 
> So, my instinct without feeling/seeing them in person is leaning towards the Kaji. The nearest Sonoma is an hour's drive. I'm trying to decide if it is worth driving to try them, or just order.


Dude,
I made a trip to WS today and looked at all of the Shun knives. Guess what, there's yet another one that they didn't tell you about. The Ken Onion Kaji fusion! The 8" KO chef's knife with the SG2 steel core damascus blade!

They were nice enough to bring out a cutting board and a raw potato for me to slice and dice and I tried ALL of the options except the classic, which I already have.

First, let me say that the Meiji was in a class by itself. 2nd, was the KO Kaji Fusion. The others, including the MB were way behind.

Here's what I left the store with;

















The Ken Onion series is being discontinued, so get 'em while they're available!

The Kaji Fusion was originally either $450 or $499, not sure which, and I got it for $349.00.

http://reviews.williams-sonoma.com/3177/cu110/reviews.htm


----------



## stallion2

this one time, i went to a knife fight and a cooking show broke out.


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> Technically, the Michel Bras is also a Shun knife, or at least a co-partnered Shun knife....but the SG-2 is "the money shot play," which ruled out the Michel Bras (well also because I don't want to be handling a sharp knife with a name that makes me think about things like this)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​Speaking of the sandwiching
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, we were talking about knives....the appeal and effect of the Damascus layers is noteworthy.





I don't mind thinking about other things when I hear Michel Bras but maybe something "newer" and less weird than AJ. I think I'd be partial to Kelly Brook.










Oh yeah, back on the knife topic.....

kwkarth, those are beautiful knives!!!!


----------



## kwkarth

What was that? Oh yeah, you got me distracted!

Knives, that was it, or was it flashlights... thanks!


----------



## LuxLuthor

So the Meiji is really different in terms of looks, feel, and function? 

Did you mean to "dis" the Kaji line saying it was in the same category as the MB line? I got the impression from talking to KAI and several clerks at 4 different stores that they all liked the Kaji better than the Ken Onion, but none mention that discontinued model.

I wasn't sure if I would have liked that KO grip, & the normal ones also being the same VG-10 so didn't consider it.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> So the Meiji is really different in terms of looks, feel, and function?
> 
> Did you mean to "dis" the Kaji line saying it was in the same category as the MB line? I got the impression from talking to KAI and several clerks at 4 different stores that they all liked the Kaji better than the Ken Onion, but none mention that discontinued model.
> 
> I wasn't sure if I would have liked that KO grip, & the normal ones also being the same VG-10 so didn't consider it.



So, the regular Ken Onion line uses the same blade construction as the Classic line. The Kaji and the Elite are a step up, using SG-2 core steel. The Kaji handles, while beautiful and well constructed, seem to me, too thin and insubstantial. The KO handles are much more robust, but a hair on the short side. The KO Koji Fusion handle is yet more robust with a SS rear bolster on the aft end of the handle as well as the for-end. The Meiji handles are volumetrically, the biggest and are also "D" shaped like the Classic and Elite series, but bigger and nicer looking. Overall, the Meiji's are also the best balanced of all the Shuns. The "texturing" for lack of a better term on the sides of the Meiji blades insure no stiction between blade and food. The KO Kanji was #2 in this regard, the WS Kanji and Shun Classic about the same at #3, and the Michael Bras #4.

The overall weight of the knives ...
KO Kanji the heaviest, next, was the Meiji, then the Classic and Kanji about the same with the Classic maybe ever so slightly heavier than the Kanji.


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> So, the regular Ken Onion line uses the same blade construction as the Classic line. The Kaji and the Elite are a step up, using SG-2 core steel. The Kaji handles, while beautiful and well constructed, seem to me, too thin and insubstantial. The KO handles are much more robust, but a hair on the short side. The KO Koji Fusion handle is yet more robust with a SS rear bolster on the aft end of the handle as well as the for-end. The Meiji handles are volumetrically, the biggest and are also "D" shaped like the Classic and Elite series, but bigger and nicer looking. Overall, the Meiji's are also the best balanced of all the Shuns. The "texturing" for lack of a better term on the sides of the Meiji blades insure no stiction between blade and food. The KO Kanji was #2 in this regard, the WS Kanji and Shun Classic about the same at #3, and the Michael Bras #4.
> 
> The overall weight of the knives ...
> KO Kanji the heaviest, next, was the Meiji, then the Classic and Kanji about the same with the Classic maybe ever so slightly heavier than the Kanji.



I can't thank you enough for sorting through all these models, and especially for discovering that KO Kaji Fusion with the SG-2 core, Damascus style, and longer tang handle grip. I was previously "locked in" on the Kaji....heading towards Meiji. But now I'm also a KO Kaji Fusion owner (being shipped).


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I can't thank you enough for sorting through all these models, and especially for discovering that KO Kaji Fusion with the SG-2 core, Damascus style, and longer tang handle grip. I was previously "locked in" on the Kaji....heading towards Meiji. But now I'm also a KO Kaji Fusion owner (being shipped).



Hey, no problem Lux, glad to help when I can! Now I hope you like your knives, and if by chance you don't, let me know so I can buy them from you!!


----------



## Patriot

Knives inbound. I sense another Lux Luthor epic review thread on the way......

This is all your fault kwkarth.


----------



## kwkarth

Patriot said:


> Knives inbound. I sense another Lux Luthor epic review thread on the way......
> 
> This is all your fault kwkarth.



Whaaa, me? All I did was answer a few questions.


----------



## Patriot

kwkarth said:


> Whaaa, me? All I did was answer a few questions.





You showed pictures..........you showed pictures......:shakehead


----------



## jzmtl

I've been wanting one of those shun chinese chef knife, but couldn't justify dropping $200 on a kitchen knife.  Maybe someday.


----------



## kwkarth

jzmtl said:


> I've been wanting one of those shun chinese chef knife, but couldn't justify dropping $200 on a kitchen knife.  Maybe someday.



You have nothing to worry about then because it's not a Chinese chef knife and it wasn't $200 bux, so you're safe on both counts.


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> You have nothing to worry about then because it's not a Chinese chef knife and it wasn't $200 bux, so you're safe on both counts.



LOL on both counts.

Since I started this thread, I have bought 7 knives & a snazzy sharpening system. It will be interesting to see how the 16° edge on Shun compares to that arm hair shaving edge of the two Lone Wolves.

Have you used any of your new Shuns for personal grooming?


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL on both counts.
> 
> Since I started this thread, I have bought 7 knives & a snazzy sharpening system. It will be interesting to see how the 16° edge on Shun compares to that arm hair shaving edge of the two Lone Wolves.
> 
> Have you used any of your new Shuns for personal grooming?



Sorry about your wallet, man! 

LOL! My face isn't that big!! I cooked up a storm tonight though and it was a joy to use the new knives. I sliced, diced, and chopped to my heart's content! The end result was actually edible too! After I finished, I ran the edge of both KO knives across my fine ceramic stick and guess what? They were already, or should I say still smooth as a baby's bottom from hilt to tip.

For fun I minced up a bunch of raw brussels sprouts so fine, they were almost powder when I got done, and it only took seconds. Amazing knives!

I have not encountered anything in the fridge yet that presented even the slightest challenge to the KO Kaji.

Now you can look anybody straight in the eye and tell 'em you're a real cut up and mean it!


----------



## LuxLuthor

The "real" test for me is going to be the green acorn squash.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> The "real" test for me is going to be the green acorn squash.



Piece of cake man.


----------



## kwkarth

Just make sure your fingers are not in the way of the blade when you apply it to the top of the squash, because it will emerge on the other side of the squash more quickly and with less effort than you might imagine.

I forgot to mention that my KO Kaji already bit me. When I picked it up at the store, I took it out of the box to look it over. I was admiring it on the stand, as I sat it down on the counter.. When I picked it up to put it back in the box, I grabbed the stand by the bottom, one hand in the front, one hand in the back. My index finger happened to rest on the point of the knife, which instantly embedded itself to the bone. Ouch! So, do as I say, not as I do, be careful!


----------



## Patriot

:laughing: Laughing at you guys.......

kwkarth you're to fine kitchen knives what Lux Luthor is to Incans. Between the two subjects there's nothing you guys don't know. It's fun to hear you guys talk about all the little details.


----------



## kwkarth

Patriot said:


> :laughing: Laughing at you guys.......
> 
> kwkarth you're to fine kitchen knives what Lux Luthor is to Incans. Between the two subjects there's nothing you guys don't know. It's fun to hear you guys talk about all the little details.



I think maybe I'm more like somebody who know's just enough about a bunch of things to be dangerous with 'em all! LOL


----------



## kwkarth

Hey Lux,
Done battle with any ornery green acorn squash lately? :naughty:


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> Hey Lux,
> Done battle with any ornery green acorn squash lately? :naughty:


The last one was about a month ago when I used that big "Al Capone" knife, pressing down with one hand from top of blade, other hand on handle. Very hard pressure with both hands, rocking the 'Godzilla' knife ends back and forth as it slowly pivot-slices through the damn rock hard squash. 

Despite my best slow rocking efforts, once the blade reaches the end and suddenly cleaves through to the wood, inevitably one half goes flying over into the toaster, and other half typically flies onto the floor, bouncing off the refrigerator. Then the next ordeal is getting a little off the ends so the halves sit flat in the pan. 

I thought I would be really clever one time, and used this saw, but that made a mess, and my wife wasn't too happy since I partially sawed into the cutting block. 




​I actually make a point of not having my dog in the kitchen at the time, because he got hit with a ricochet off the frig once. It's only because we both love eating them baked with butter and brown sugar that I bother. I should make a video of the ordeal, because it is pretty funny.

I am due to get the sharpener Monday, and probably the rest of the "motherlode" will arrive by middle/end of the week. Rest assured, I will have some test potatoes, squashies, carrots, & the other monster-to-cut--white turnips (which I hate).


----------



## kwkarth

I'm really looking forward to your results. You should do a before and after with the Old Chicago when you get your sharpening kit!:thumbsup: Years ago, I did pretty much the same trick with ...I think it was an acorn squash too. As I recall, I was a bit too close to the problem at the time to see the humor in it.


----------



## LuxLuthor

*Holy Moly ! * 

Got one of the three KO Kaji Fusions (& a couple folders)...and the Edge Pro system. I'm overwhelmed and 

*Holy Moly !!! is all I can say at this point...oh, and I can also see that having adequate arm hair is going to be a problem.*


----------



## Patriot

Oh no...he's hooked!


----------



## Th232

And bad!

Lux, after your arms, you have leg hair...


----------



## kwkarth

Congrats Lux! May I suggest you shave kiwis instead of arm hair? 

We had company over on Sunday night for dinner. Our son and his wife and baby, and his wife's parents. He (our son) wanted to prepare the salad at our house because they had been so busy running around prior in the day. I handed him one of the KO's to cut the onion. He touched the blade to the top of the onion, and then it was translated to the other side of the onion, in a blink. 

His first words? *Holy Moly !* :twothumbs  Have fun Lux!!


----------



## Patriot

Th232 said:


> And bad!
> 
> Lux, after your arms, you have leg hair...






LOL.... funny *232*

Curling paper is pretty fun too once you run out of hair.



As a competitive swimmer, you should be used to the no hair thing Lux.. :laughing:


----------



## LuxLuthor

Patriot said:


> As a competitive swimmer, you should be used to the no hair thing Lux.. :laughing:



Ahhh those were the days. Could eat whatever you want and always burn it up. Swimming 4+ hours a day gets old though. I didn't get to the Olympic level where you needed to shave all your body hair.

Just had a nice talk with the Edge Pro owner to get his advice on all my knives I ran through the carbide sharpeners. Also asked him what he thought about using this to sharpen the Shun knives. He immediately said you can do a much better job sharpening it with Edge Pro than sending it back to KIU in Oregon...speaking from experience with them. That's pretty amazing.


----------



## LuxLuthor

I have used the Edge Pro on two older knives, and easily got them sharper than the new Shun knives. This is more amazing than I had anticipated, and relatively foolproof.

How many of you guys have this sharpener?


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I have used the Edge Pro on two older knives, and easily got them sharper than the new Shun knives. This is more amazing than I had anticipated, and relatively foolproof.
> 
> How many of you guys have this sharpener?



I don't have one yet...


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I've gotten pretty good with Pocket Steel and Ceramic Sticks free hand so a sharpener like that would be redundant.

Although it might be good on buggered edges.


----------



## LuxLuthor

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> I've gotten pretty good with Pocket Steel and Ceramic Sticks free hand so a sharpener like that would be redundant.
> 
> Although it might be good on buggered edges.



No doubt that a steady hand and good experience allows all those other sharpening techniques to work well, once mastered.

The thing I notice with this model is how well it keeps the same angle as you move to increasingly fine grit stones. Knowing the angle is locked, allows you to do the strokes harder and faster at first, then lighter as you are finishing. I would have a hard time keeping my free hand strokes at a fixed angle of like 16 or 17 degrees, while varying pressure and stone grits. 

I laughed at how that last paragraph sounds like a porno film.

I also like how you can use this to see what the manufacture set the blade angle at.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Many links about sharpening knives. I have found these two very well done.



From www.egullet.org forums


http://users.ameritech.net/knives/index.htm


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

OK. After reading through that first link I don't know a THING about sharpening!

Angles? We don't need no stinkin' angles!

No, really... if I start with good steel I can get an edge that slices paper and scares hair.

I touched up a lot of kitchen knives at the senior center in town and so far only compliments and on complaints.

I have one pocket knife here that defies all attempts. It has what has to be the poorest heat treated steel ever put in a knife.

It's a pretty thing and well put together. But I'm getting close to throwing it in the lake.

Anyhow I'll muddle along doing the 'wrong' thing and enjoying my knives.

Y'all carry on!


----------



## choombak

LuxLuthor said:


> How long are the knives that you guys always carry in your pockets? I'm trying to think how much I would use it during my day...and if it wears a hole in your pocket. Certainly being outside hiking/camping it would be essential. I'm still thinking about them. It's probably one of those things that once you have it you see more of a value in it. Not sure what model, length is most "practical."



Very close to 3 inch folder is what I carry as EDC (leatherman e33l). 3 and above inch blade may be "illegal" in some parts, so a slightly smaller length is better. You can carry upto 100 gms. total weight without feeling "heavy" in the pocket. I had a similar question when I did not have the knife -- how much will I use it really? I was mistaken then, I use it at least *once* every day...
- cutting fruit
- opening boxes
- "emergency" cutting jobs for wife in the kitchen where her knives may fall short
- cutting open envelopes and other mail

Well, without a knife, these jobs become very difficult. I am a software professional, so my job does not really involve anything that has to do with sharp tools. If I can use a knife so many times during a day, then I believe others must be finding it immensely useful.

Haven't been in an emergency situation, so cannot really comment on that aspect, but I am sure my knife will be around in such situations too.

If you haven't already own one, please get one, slip it in your pocket for sometime and you will realize what you have been missing all along.

-amarendra


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

I find I can carry up to about 3 3/4" in my jeans pocket.

Bigger or heavier knives can be carried on my belt in a Fenix AA holster.

'Tactical' knives have clips and one is usually clipped in the back of my RFP.

There are some BEAUTIFUL leather items designed for knife carry as well.

I use my knives for opening boxes, eating apples, cleaning my nails and stuff like that. Used 'em more in my former job and likely less in my new job.

Won't stop me carrying 3 or 4 every day.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Many links about sharpening knives. I have found these two very well done.
> 
> 
> 
> From www.egullet.org forums
> 
> 
> http://users.ameritech.net/knives/index.htm



Lux,
Thanks for these links. They're a great read!


----------



## cave dave

I use a Spyderco sharpmaker and sometimes strop on an old leather belt if I want shaving sharp. I don't need it any sharper than that. Alhough it is cool to impress yourself or freinds if you can get it "scary" sharp.


----------



## Radiophile

I've got to stop reading this thread because I'll wind up buying an Edge Pro system and I don't want to spend the money right now!


----------



## LuxLuthor

cave dave said:


> I use a Spyderco sharpmaker and sometimes strop on an old leather belt if I want shaving sharp. I don't need it any sharper than that. Alhough it is cool to impress yourself or freinds if you can get it "scary" sharp.



Until I read those last links, I had thought that making a blade "scary" sharp & able to shave hair was the ideal goal. Now I understand better about the wider angle giving a more durable edge when you have a more average (softer) steel.

The Shun knives can have a very thin 15-16° angle because they start with a higher quality, harder steel. I just sharpened my two "Al Capone" knives to about a 22° angle on the 220 grit stone, and was able to get them easily slicing paper, but stopped short of using finer grit stones to get them arm hair sharp.

I can see how I ruined the edges using the carbide (Samarai Shark) type sharpeners, but it was very easy to put back an ideal angle for the particular knife. I have sharpened about 10 of our home knives so far. 

I took these shots of the 3 Shun knives. Used different camera settings trying to show the blade design. Still have to pick up some green acorn squash.



 

 



The beauty of these is indescribable.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Until I read those last links, I had thought that making a blade "scary" sharp & able to shave hair was the ideal goal. Now I understand better about the wider angle giving a more durable edge when you have a more average (softer) steel.
> 
> The Shun knives can have a very thin 15-16° angle because they start with a higher quality, harder steel. I just sharpened my two "Al Capone" knives to about a 22° angle on the 220 grit stone, and was able to get them easily slicing paper, but stopped short of using finer grit stones to get them arm hair sharp.
> 
> I can see how I ruined the edges using the carbide (Samarai Shark) type sharpeners, but it was very easy to put back an ideal angle for the particular knife. I have sharpened about 10 of our home knives so far.
> 
> I took these shots of the 3 Shun knives. Used different camera settings trying to show the blade design. Still have to pick up some green acorn squash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The beauty of these is indescribable.


Those are beautiful Lux!


----------



## Patriot

Great pics Lux. I really like the warm one. Sort of looks like you used an incan to bring some of the color out.


----------



## stallion2

from my own experience i've found that sharpening kits, while nice and at times convenient, are largely overrated. i could see investing in a good one for the purpose of maintaining a high grade kitchen set but my kitchen knives are more modest. i do have 4 different fillet knives that i use often and there aren't too many types of knives out there where a sharp edge is as crucial. it took a few years of practice but now i can hand sharpen them w/ a diamond stick and deburr w/ a ceramic stick and get them sharper than any of the other gadgets now stashed in various closets and doors. 

i remember when i first read about finishing your edge on a 25° angle...seemed completely counterintuitive but it really does make it easier to get a sharp, consistent edge...especially w/ pocket or field knives. pains me how much time i wasted sharpening knives incorrectly prior to that.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Reading the egullet guide, they say


> The best compromise in the kitchen has proven to be a 15/20 double bevel. That is a 15 degree back bevel with a 20 degree primary edge face.


 (shown in this line drawing). So first grind to 15°, then add a 20° second edge.

I just did that on an older chef's knife, and it does look and feel quite nice.


----------



## Patriot

Sounds nice Lux. That back bevel will be very nice when pushing through certain media. I reprofile the back bevel on nearly all of my knives and it really adds to the pleasure and practicality of using them.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Patriot said:


> Sounds nice Lux. That back bevel will be very nice when pushing through *certain media*. I reprofile the back bevel on nearly all of my knives and it really adds to the pleasure and practicality of using them.



Certain media?  You slice up your CD & DVD's? I was having so much fun sharpening these, I forgot all about using them. Still have to get some squashies.


----------



## Patriot

LuxLuthor said:


> Certain media?  You slice up your CD & DVD's? I was having so much fun sharpening these, I forgot all about using them. Still have to get some squashies.



DVD's? Heck you should see my spare TV set. :laughing:

When you get around to reprofiling your new kitchen set please post a macro of the newly sharpened edge. It may sound kind of silly but guys like me and kw we enjoy seeing that kind of thing. Your other pictures and lighting were so good that I could nearly see the edge on them!


----------



## kwkarth

Lux,
Three questions...


What folders did you end up with? 

Have you found any acorn squash victims yet?

Now that you've lived with the KO Kaji's for a while, what do you think of them?

Wife and I are going to look for some acorns today. Muhahaha! 

Cheers!


----------



## kwkarth

Hey guys,
I found an interesting article about the Bob Kramer/Shun collaboration. Y'all may have already read the article, but in case you haven't;

http://www.chadwrites.com/blade-show-kramer-shun-collaboration/

This collaboration is yet another design apart from the Shun/Kramer Meji collaboration done for Williams-Sonoma. Won knife of the year.


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> Lux,
> Three questions...
> 
> 
> What folders did you end up with?
> Have you found any acorn squash victims yet?
> Now that you've lived with the KO Kaji's for a while, what do you think of them?
> Wife and I are going to look for some acorns today. Muhahaha!
> 
> Cheers!



1) Folders:a) Lone Wolf Prankster cocobolo handles.
b) Lone Wolf US 45
c) Kershaw Ken Onion Black Bur with SS
d) SOG FSA-8 Flash II
​2) Got some acorn squashies yesterday. Sliced with Shun Chef easily with one hand, and trimmed the bottom off. This was the acid test and it performed way beyond my wildest expections. Mind boggling.

3) I am so so so so so very very very very happy I was able to get your in-store testing, even to find that discontinued model. It is a wonderful, larger grip, superb balance, and like you said they all just melt through things that were a pain to cut. These are so beautiful you just want to find things to use them on.​I'm also amazed how easy and reliable the Edge Pro is to learn and get exactly the edge you want on any knife. It is really fun to use it and know that you can get 100% perfect and consistent edges. Regular white paper is too easy to get shaving sharp. Better to us newspaper of wrapping tissue paper.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> 1) Folders:a) Lone Wolf Prankster cocobolo handles.
> b) Lone Wolf US 45
> c) Kershaw Ken Onion Black Bur with SS
> d) SOG FSA-8 Flash II
> ​2) Got some acorn squashies yesterday. Sliced with Shun Chef easily with one hand, and trimmed the bottom off. This was the acid test and it performed way beyond my wildest expections. Mind boggling.
> 
> 3) I am so so so so so very very very very happy I was able to get your in-store testing, even to find that discontinued model. It is a wonderful, larger grip, superb balance, and like you said they all just melt through things that were a pain to cut. These are so beautiful you just want to find things to use them on.​I'm also amazed how easy and reliable the Edge Pro is to learn and get exactly the edge you want on any knife. It is really fun to use it and know that you can get 100% perfect and consistent edges. Regular white paper is too easy to get shaving sharp. Better to us newspaper of wrapping tissue paper.


That's awesome!!You're on the cutting edge Bro!!


----------



## LuxLuthor

On a totally unrelated note.


----------



## LuxLuthor

I'm not sure of the best way to sharpen my Alaskan Ulu knife in the Edge Pro. Maybe I'll call Ben and ask him....also give him feedback on a newbie's experience with it.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm not sure of the best way to sharpen my Alaskan Ulu knife in the Edge Pro. Maybe I'll call Ben and ask him....also give him feedback on a newbie's experience with it.



I'll bet it's a bit of a challenge to find a way clamp that sucker down in a stable position eh? On the unrelated note... Precious! Someone you know?
Regards,
kevin


----------



## LuxLuthor

Talked to Ben (owner of Edge Pro) who is very available. He said the only way is to put a 1/4" wood spacer under blade, which works fine and he has done it. Blade is very thick and stiff, so wood only needs to give spacing support. Just tried it, and works perfect.

That video of "Charlie Bit My Finger" is the #1 ranked video on Youtube of all time, with 131 million views.


----------



## Patriot

Lux, did he give you an angle suggestion for the Ulu? I was going to guess steeper, perhaps 24 degrees but ..... yeah dunno.


----------



## kwkarth

Coffee / Tea Lovers, check out the Coffee brew thread for the latest edition...

Coffee thread.


----------



## LuxLuthor

Patriot said:


> Lux, did he give you an angle suggestion for the Ulu? I was going to guess steeper, perhaps 24 degrees but ..... yeah dunno.



The Ulu only has an edge on one side, and their edge depth is a full 1/4" so he suggested just working on about 1-2mm. His method of determining angles is you cover edge with black magic marker, then find the angle you want which removes that part of the ink. If you want a double bevel edge, he recommends 13° & 19° angles.

Of course, I had to see the capability of the coarsest 120 grit stone, and found the Ulu's default edge uses a 19° angle. I was able to sand off just a surface layer bezel just enough to see a clean metal on entire 1/4" with only about 12-15 strokes. Switched to 220 and 320 stones, and finished with ceramic rod. I kept their 19-20° angle.

I had two of these Ulu's, and the sharpened one slices paper easily, while the unsharpened one (previously "sharpened" with Billy Mays Samarai Shark carbide) would not. 

First thing I learned was how to use the Ulu knife with the rocking motion in this Quicktime video here. This newly sharpened Ulu blew through carrots and potatoes like crap through a goose.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> The Ulu only has an edge on one side, and their edge depth is a full 1/4" so he suggested just working on about 1-2mm. His method of determining angles is you cover edge with black magic marker, then find the angle you want which removes that part of the ink. If you want a double bevel edge, he recommends 13° & 19° angles.
> 
> Of course, I had to see the capability of the coarsest 120 grit stone, and found the Ulu's default edge uses a 19° angle. I was able to sand off just a surface layer bezel just enough to see a clean metal on entire 1/4" with only about 12-15 strokes. Switched to 220 and 320 stones, and finished with ceramic rod. I kept their 19-20° angle.
> 
> I had two of these Ulu's, and the sharpened one slices paper easily, while the unsharpened one (previously "sharpened" with Billy Mays Samarai Shark carbide) would not.
> 
> First thing I learned was how to use the Ulu knife with the rocking motion in this Quicktime video here. This newly sharpened Ulu blew through carrots and potatoes like crap through a goose.



That's pretty cool Lux. I am sure one of those sharpeners is in my future!


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> Lux, I think you may be surprised with the edge you can get on those Old Chicago high carbon knives you've got. They take a pretty nice edge for an inexpensive knife.



WOW, I just found out the coolest thing. Remember this knife from my earlier post? (2 different lighting views)



​My wife just told me that her father made it from scratch with some steel used at Electric Boat on the submarines where he worked. I was showing her how it now cuts paper. I never liked using it because it had such a dull edge.


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> WOW, I just found out the coolest thing. Remember this knife from my earlier post? (2 different lighting views)
> 
> 
> 
> ​My wife just told me that her father made it from scratch with some steel used at Electric Boat on the submarines where he worked. I was showing her how it now cuts paper. I never liked using it because it had such a dull edge.



WOW! That really cool! So about what year did he make them? What does your wife think of them now that you've resurrected them?


----------



## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> WOW! That really cool! So about what year did he make them? What does your wife think of them now that you've resurrected them?



Like all normal people, she's fast asleep. My guess is at least 30+ years ago. When I cut (actually shaved) paper with it, she also didn't know that was remotely possible.


----------



## Tekno_Cowboy

That's pretty nifty. It's nice seeing an old tool brought back to life


----------



## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Like all normal people, she's fast asleep. My guess is at least 30+ years ago. When I cut (actually shaved) paper with it, she also didn't know that was remotely possible.



They go to bed early up theya in New England don't they! My wife's from New Hampshire and she was in bed by about 9 o'clock. (Normal for her) I usually turn in around midnight give or take an hour or two. We're having the first big wind and rain storm of the season tonight, so I'm up watching the power company up the street work on the transformer that feeds our house.

Lux, I don't care what you say, you're still a cut up!


----------



## kwkarth

Lux,
You might be interested in this one:

















You can get this from AGRussel for around 60 bux. A fair price for a usable and "pretty" knife. Sports a G10 and white bone handle, nice file work on the back spacer, reasonable steel, engine turned SS pocket clip, etc.

Copy from site:


> Pat and Wes Crawford, custom knifemakers in West Memphis, Arkansas, have produced many successful folder designs for CRKT over the years, many with mid-level blade steels and Zytel® scales. Here's our new idea: let's make a Crawford folder series that is as close to a custom knife as possible, using premium blade steel and natural materials.
> 
> Logically, we decided to call it the Natural™ series. Available in two sizes, these are extremely heavy-duty frame-lock folders with our patented* lightning-fast OutBurst™ assisted opening.
> 
> The Natural™ 2 7080 is our smaller personal carry size with white bone scales and black G10 bolsters. It has a 3.25" blade, also of polished premium 8Cr13MoV stainless steel.
> 
> The stainless steel liners are so thick that this qualifies as a frame-lock folder. The blade can only be called a "Crawford Marauder clip point," with a scalloped top edge and dual ramped Crawford-style thumb studs for opening. Just nudge either thumb stud outward approximately 30°, and the OutBurst mechanism springs the blade open with a satisfying "click."
> 
> The stainless steel back spacer receives file work like the finest customs. It also has a removable jeweled stainless steel pocket/gear clip. When it comes to grip, this folder has it all: a good-sized handle, butt pommel, two deep finger choils and thumb friction grooves on the spine.
> 
> So here's our bet: If you were walking through a custom knife show, and you picked up any of these Naturals without the CRKT logo, you would think, "Wow, a Crawford custom!" And except for the value price, you'd be pretty darned close.
> 
> *U.S. Patent No. 6,834,432
> Specifications
> Blade: Length: 3.25" (83 mm)
> Thickness: 0.15" (3.7 mm)
> Steel: 8Cr13MoV, 58-59 HRC
> Closed: Handle length: 4.38" (111 mm)
> Open: Overall length: 7.63" (194 mm)


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe

Those are rather nice! I'd like it all bone though, or more likely go for one of the wood scaled models.

But who am I fooling? I wont be after anything new the remainder of this year....


----------



## stallion2

kwkarth said:


> Lux,
> You might be interested in this one:
> 
> You can get this from AGRussel for around 60 bux. A fair price for a usable and "pretty" knife. Sports a G10 and white bone handle, nice file work on the back spacer, reasonable steel, engine turned SS pocket clip, etc.
> 
> Copy from site:


 
WOW...i've not been to CRKTs site for awhile, this is the first i've seen this. it sounds as though it may be a little on the heavy side but i love the profile on that grip. only $60 for that alloy?....that's a "steel".
CRKTs posting a list of $90. i think the smaller version may have just leapt to the top of my 'poop i don't need but really want' list.


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## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> Lux,
> You might be interested in this one



I missed this update, but snagged the large. Just when I thought I was safe, you suck me right back in. 

I'm using the Prankster all the time now. LOL!


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> I missed this update, but snagged the large. Just when I thought I was safe, you suck me right back in.
> 
> I'm using the Prankster all the time now. LOL!



The prankster is one nice knife.

I think you may find it interesting the difference between the entry level Lone Wolf knives and the CRKT Natural. The LW 45 is the bottom of their line, and the Natural just about the top of the CRKT line, yet the construction quality of the 45 is better, the materials (steel) are better. But the Natural is a really cool looking knife and not bad quality at all.


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## LuxLuthor

Yeah, while I only have a few knives, it is very obvious that the LW brand exudes quality....gives a very satisfying experience.


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Yeah, while I only have a few knives, it is very obvious that the LW brand exudes quality....gives a very satisfying experience.



Lux, you need to get a Shun Bob Kramer, not the Meiji, and let me know if it's worth it.  The SBK Meiji would be ok too, but the one carried by SurLaTable looks better as it's a direct copy of his custom kitchen knife designs. The Meiji seems to be a melding of the elite sg-2 steel, the Shun Classic handle shape with prettier wood, and some touches from Kramer.

http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/824323/


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## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> Lux, you need to get a Shun Bob Kramer, not the Meiji, and let me know if it's worth it.  The SBK Meiji would be ok too, but the one carried by SurLaTable looks better as it's a direct copy of his custom kitchen knife designs. The Meiji seems to be a melding of the elite sg-2 steel, the Shun Classic handle shape with prettier wood, and some touches from Kramer.
> 
> http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/824323/



LOL! Where do you find all these things? I'm surprised when I see the lower prices (relative to Meiji) for his knives here. I so love the Ken Onion Kaji Fusion, I can't imagine the Kramer as any better. I do think the Sur La Table looks much nicer than the Meiji though. Both use SG2 core and appear to have 64 layers comparing patterns. Maybe the 6" Chefs ?

Here is yet another version of the KO with SG2, but not the Damascus pattern like the Kaji Fusion.


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL! Where do you find all these things? I'm surprised when I see the lower prices (relative to Meiji) for his knives here. I so love the Ken Onion Kaji Fusion, I can't imagine the Kramer as any better. I do think the Sur La Table looks much nicer than the Meiji though. Both use SG2 core and appear to have 64 layers comparing patterns. Maybe the 6" Chefs ?
> 
> Here is yet another version of the KO with SG2, but not the Damascus pattern like the Kaji Fusion.



I think I'm going to go for the paring knife first. Although I haven't seen the SLT Kramers yet, I would guess that the texturing might be similar on the sides and that does make a big difference in cutting friction so it makes the knife "seem" much sharper, even if it isn't.


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## LuxLuthor

Did you buy one of their honing sticks? After talking to Ben at Edge Pro, I can't make sense of the metal stick being able to straighten a bent edge of such a hard SG2 metal alloy. That was his opinion, and why he switched over to finish honing with a very fine grit ceramic rod.


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Did you buy one of their honing sticks? After talking to Ben at Edge Pro, I can't make sense of the metal stick being able to straighten a bent edge of such a hard SG2 metal alloy. That was his opinion, and why he switched over to finish honing with a very fine grit ceramic rod.


Theoretically, as long as the steel of the "steel" is harder than the SG2 steel of the knife, then it should do a good job of straightening the edge roll of the knife.

Having said that, because I personally don't have a "sharpening" steel harder than SG2 that I know of, I picked up a ceramic "steel" about three or four months ago while looking for a better sharpening steel. I have diamond coated steels, but they actually remove metal from the blade, so I only use them to re-set the edge.

Even though a ceramic "steel" also removes metal, it does so at a much finer level and because it is so hard it will effectively straighten the edge.


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## LuxLuthor

Well the interesting thing when I watched the DVD that came with the Edge Pro (which a pretty poor VHS copy of a video made long ago--and not as detailed as I would have expected), Ben uses & used to include a fine steel honing rod. At some point, he switched over to a ceramic rod which is what came with the kit. 

It was one of the questions I asked him by phone, and like you said, the ceramic is very hard, does take off a very minor amount, but used correctly gives better results even with the Japanese knives. He did not feel the rod Shun sells would effectively be able to straighten SG2 hardness steel.

I don't yet feel confident enough to touch my Shuns with the Edge Pro system.


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## LuxLuthor

kwkarth said:


> Lux,
> You might be interested in this one _(CRKT The Natural)_



WoW, another superb recommendation. This really is a beauty. So far out of the 6 folders I have bought, only this one and the two LW Prankster & 45 arrived with a hair shaving edge. Others were sharp, but not easy hair shaving sharp.

I love the "Man Grip" this has. Thanks again for helping me spend my money! :thumbsup:


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> WoW, another superb recommendation. This really is a beauty. So far out of the 6 folders I have bought, only this one and the two LW Prankster & 45 arrived with a hair shaving edge. Others were sharp, but not easy hair shaving sharp.
> 
> I love the "Man Grip" this has. Thanks again for helping me spend my money! :thumbsup:



Yeah, isn't that grip great? It feels so secure in your hand. They did a nice job, especially for the price point!


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## LuxLuthor

Man were the Shun's, & others sharpened with the Edge Pro topics of conversation over Turkey Day. Like when I started this topic, they similarly opened up new realms of awareness that none of the dozen friends/family had about knives. I ran out of Acorn squash and spare potatoes that people could cut. 

Hardest thing was making extra careful they were instructed on the scary sharpness, 'one at a time' & not distracted, as the last thing I would have needed was a careless bloody mess. Initially they all wanted to reach for the various knives simultaneously, like they were passing around birthday cards. It was like herding cats.


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## kwkarth

LuxLuthor said:


> Man were the Shun's, & others sharpened with the Edge Pro topics of conversation over Turkey Day. Like when I started this topic, they similarly opened up new realms of awareness that none of the dozen friends/family had about knives. I ran out of Acorn squash and spare potatoes that people could cut.
> 
> Hardest thing was making extra careful they were instructed on the scary sharpness, 'one at a time' & not distracted, as the last thing I would have needed was a careless bloody mess. Initially they all wanted to reach for the various knives simultaneously, like they were passing around birthday cards. It was like herding cats.



Glad the day passed with no incidents!!


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## LuxLuthor

The Christmas dinner was a lovely tenderloin Beef Wellington that I sliced with the old handmade from Electric Boat high carbon steel knife. It sliced through it wonderfully, and even was able to give some thinner slices for the red meat challenged members. The Edge Pro really made this old family heirloom work like magic.


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## LuxLuthor

I ended up getting most of the Ken Onion Kaji Fusion line over the year which are discontinued now. Also love the Kaji Fusion Ultimate Utility 6". Really great knives, just used again at Christmas dinner. Have not needed to sharpen them since I got them, but using the Apex Pro for all others.


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## cummins4x4

Great thread! Haven't read all of it yet but thought I should contribute. I collect Spydies and Kershaws and have Shun Classics for the kitchen.
Picked up one of these little belt grinders last year. I am quite capable of using just about anything to get a great edge but I found myself spending a lot of time resurrecting badly abused knives for friends and family. This Worksharp lets me do a really good job of reprofiling and is really fast but must be used with a bit of caution.






And a shot or 2 of some of my collection;


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## LuxLuthor

Nice little belt sander!

I'm continuing to loving using my Edge Pro 2 system, and pick up occasional new knives.


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