# ROP Vs WA1111



## sskyy (Mar 4, 2007)

I was going to build a ROP using a 2d mag and a FM 6x14500 battery holder.
But FM is out of Prelican bulbs.
So I am thinking of using a Bi-pin WA1111 with a Golden PR To Bi-Pin Ceramic Socket. Wil this work and how will it compare to a Rop HI?
Also which refelector, I would like lots of throw so will probably go for a SMO.
But I have seen very few threads about the WA1111 bulb. Is there something bad about it?
Any thoughts about this setup.
Thanks
sskyy


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## Mars (Mar 4, 2007)

Pelicans from http://www.lighthound.com


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## sskyy (Mar 4, 2007)

unfortunatly lighthound have no stock as well.


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## DFiorentino (Mar 4, 2007)

Try BrightGuy

-DF


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## moontroll (Mar 4, 2007)

Heres another http://www.opticsplanet.net/pelican-big-d-rech-3850-sla-xenon-lamp-module-3854.html


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## sskyy (Mar 4, 2007)

Thanks for the links. They both seem to have rather complicated and expensive international shipping. So I have decided to go for the M*g 11 using a SMO reflector, as I can get all the components from fivemega.


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## Hallis (Mar 4, 2007)

How about answering his question about the ROP vs Mag11. I would if i knew.


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## DFiorentino (Mar 4, 2007)

Well, I'll try. Numbers aside the ROP HOLA is visually brighter than the WA1111. Signifigantly, I personally wouldn't say so to my eyes alone (i.e. in actual use), but enough that there is still a difference. I prefer the beamshape of the WA1111 myself. As for reflectors, it's all personal taste. None of my hotwires will ever have less that a light stipple if I have my choice. I have no need for "throw" other than the wow factor and I hate artifacts. 

-DF


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## Strauss (Mar 4, 2007)

I don't know much about the WA1111, but I do know that driven with the same battery set-up, the WA1111 will burn whiter than the ROP.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 4, 2007)

My take on this is that I never found a satisfactory reflector in a M*g for the 1111.

I have mine in an old Streamlight Excalibre 5D with 6C NimH, and it's more flood than throw.

My ROP HI runs in a LOP and is quite a bit tighter of beam.

I just found that my 1111 light needs charging, so no report on brightness just now.


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## jimjones3630 (Mar 4, 2007)

Interesting to see this thread after I ordered some wa01111's today from Litho in the group buy section.

Have read many compliments for the wa01111 beam incomparison to ROP Ho which I have in 5c with 6 sub c's. Converted my ROP LE today to bi pin to try the Phillips 5761 and wa01111. Will post a purely subjective impression when they arrive.
If really interesting will post ceiling beam shots.


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## bridgman (Mar 4, 2007)

I have seen a more than one comment to the effect that a Mag11 (WA1111) is the ideal compromise between brightness and runtime. I haven't played with the bulb much myself, and most of my experience is with a 5 cell pack rather than 6 cell, but I don't think you'll find anything bad.

One bit of advice -- if you are using Fivemega's bi-pin adapter you should DEFINITELY get a Fivemega cammed reflector to go with it rather than a camless reflector. The adapter works great but doesn't put the filament at the same height as a potted bulb, so the camless reflectors don't focus quite right and you can't fit enough focus shims under the ring to make up the difference.

I'm just going to go shuffle a few parts and make sure what I just said is true 

EDIT -- yep, FM adapter + FM cammed reflector (mine is MOP) + WA1111 = "everything focus nice". 

When I compared WA1111 on a slightly used pack of Sanyo 2700s to a ROP high on a freshly charged set of 1650s the ROP was definitely whiter, but when I swapped packs the WA1111 was almost equally "whiter". I don't have two identical packs to use for a direct comparison, but I can say that the ROP and 1111 seem to be approximately equal for whiteness and that the 1111 is "nice and white" in an absolute sense.

MORE EDIT -- in case it helps, I was sufficiently pleased with the WA1111 beam that I'm going to leave the 1111/adapter installed. Might even update my sig to that effect.

LAST EDIT -- so much for the ROP Hi bulb. I managed to get it jammed in the bulb holder of a 3D mag and was stupid enough to use the wrong pliers to remove it AND not wear safety glasses while doing so. Crunch. These bulbs blow little bits of glass everywhere, including eyes. Fortunately one of my dogs needs frequent eye drops so I had a big bottle of artificial tears around which made a great eye wash. 

 No permanent damage, I hope, but just another reminder to always wear safety glasses when doing something potentially stupid.


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## Hallis (Mar 5, 2007)

Ouch, 

"Ok Important Safety tip. Thanks Egon" - Bill Murray - Ghostbusters

So. Pound for pound they're about equal. I know the 1111's can be had fairly easilly. Think i might just do my next build a Mag11.

Shane


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## Josey (Mar 5, 2007)

I think when you're comparing two relatively close bulbs, such as the ROP High and the 1111, resistance becomes the big issue. If you're going with the 1111, which is a great bulb, I'd choose the Kiu socket and do some of the resistance fixes to the switch and tail cap. I bought one of Jim Sexton's regulated Tigerlight 11s, with the batteries and switch soldered together for super low resistance. That light will outperform any of my ROP highs.


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## Northern Lights (Mar 5, 2007)

sskyy said:


> I was going to build a ROP using a 2d mag and a FM 6x14500 battery holder.
> But FM is out of Prelican bulbs.
> So I am thinking of using a Bi-pin WA1111 with a Golden PR To Bi-Pin Ceramic Socket. Wil this work and how will it compare to a Rop HI?
> Also which refelector, I would like lots of throw so will probably go for a SMO.
> ...


My exact quandry when I started building. The wa 1111 is slightly less bright. But the pR>bipin socket gives you so many choices. Once I got the socket I learned that the phillips 5761 bulb, the same diameter of a Pelican btw, on 7.2 volts is almost 900 torch-lumens, that is the light out the of the mod! You see, I like lumens, so here is approximately what you get with the same light, if you change bulbs and have a bi-pin ability. WA1111 550t-lumens, 3854 @600 t-lumens, 5761 just under 900 t-lumens. Bright lights is realative to what you want or need. 
I always use a smooth reflector as they give the longest throw. You can get rid of the artifacts seen in some bulbs by frosting the lower 2/3 of a bulb with armour etch, glass etch from hobby or craft shops. 
The more information you have the bigger the decisions, good luck.


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## Strauss (Mar 5, 2007)

Where can I pick up one of these phillips 5761 bulbs? Right now I have a 2D with 2x18650's running the pelican high. With fresh batteries, I am seeing a bit over 600 lumens coming out the front, and get about 25 min. of runtime(with output being just under 400 lumens at the end). 

From what I understand, I can just pick up one of fivemega's bi-pin sockets and run the 5761 since I am running the 2x18650's. Am I correct on this, and what would the approximate runtime be?


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## bridgman (Mar 5, 2007)

I have been told that the 5761 bulb glass is wider than most common hotwire bulbs so the reflector hole might need to be widened. Other than that, I think it would just plug in. Only other concern is current draw -- the 5761 draws a lot of current and is probably close to 2C, maybe even over.


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## AlexGT (Mar 5, 2007)

How much amps does the 5761 draw? I am interested too


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## LumenHound (Mar 5, 2007)

I just measured one and found the glass envelope of the Philips 5761 is 8.77mm or 0.345 inches in diameter. It draws a hefty 5½ amps.


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## Northern Lights (Mar 5, 2007)

Strauss said:


> Where can I pick up one of these phillips 5761 bulbs? Right now I have a 2D with 2x18650's running the pelican high. With fresh batteries, I am seeing a bit over 600 lumens coming out the front, and get about 25 min. of runtime(with output being just under 400 lumens at the end).
> 
> From what I understand, I can just pick up one of fivemega's bi-pin sockets and run the 5761 since I am running the 2x18650's. Am I correct on this, and what would the approximate runtime be?


P/u 5761 from www.bulbconnection.
It fits FM and LItho reflectors, I am running them.
To put it into a Mag Charger you need to dress a round dremel stone with a dressing stone to the diameter of the bulb, cheap calipers work to set this. Run the stone into the hole from behind. I am running that too.
Hotrater sheet puts the 5761 at 5.46 Amps, I measured one of my lights at 5.5 amps, essential the same.
BTW-A couple of months ago I began running the 5761 on two Batterspace.com 18650, 2600 mAh, the biggest on the market now. Some folks warned me about the 2c rule, but these are unprotected. I run and charge the battery every day as I work grave yard shifts. The light does start out at the 7.2 volts, holds for a few minutes and gradually the voltage drops; what doesn't. I forgot the voltages I have worked it down too but I plugged them into the hotrater and found I was starting out just under 900 torch-lumens and ending at @ 500 torch-lumens. Overal the performance is great. I am awaiting the new C lithiums for that light, I can add a charging jack then too. This is probably the brightes package in a 2C light. If you search key work 5761 you probably will find all my posts and Bobg has some great results and beam shots with the bulb too. I have a Mag Charger running 5.4 Ah on the 5761 and with that reflector I actuall measured the distance to a building I lit up at 2,272 with a LIDAR speed gun, therefore that is accurate. Should have seen the expression on the folks getting the class. The surefire addict just shook his head!


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 5, 2007)

With the 6C NimH (about 2600mAh I think - from Batteries +) frshly charged...

The 1111 is BRIGHT and White!

But I stand by what I said about never finding a good reflector for it in a M*g. It's just a white BLOB of light out of the Excalibre!!!


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## AlexGT (Mar 5, 2007)

Do you think the 1111 can be focused good with the FM 2" deep reflector?

AlexGT


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## bridgman (Mar 6, 2007)

My first beamshot :rock: 

Note to self, hold flashlight and camera at right angles to the wall. 

Mag2D, 6xAA, WA1111 in FM gold bi-pin adapter, FM cammed MOP reflector (regular, not the 2" deep one). The photo shows some very mild ringing but that is not visible normally -- the beam looks really good to the eye. 

The beam is also much whiter than this -- the camera shows the beam as bright white before taking the picture, but after processing it seems to rebalance the colour to this icky yellow. Haven't found a menu option to turn that off yet.


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## ZeissOEM2 (Mar 6, 2007)

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## LuxLuthor (Mar 6, 2007)

I use the WA1111 in this light from FM with a deep 2" reflector, and it got rid of the artifacts if I make sure it is centered. Another nice reflector is coming which will be even better.

However, this FM light uses 4x14500's and Hotdriver to limit voltage to 12.1V and drive an 1166 which is a little brighter at about 950 bulb lumens

Neither of these compares to the new special Carley 43W 1500 bulb lumen bulb that FM sold with these lights (or the larger 2D ones)


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## ZeissOEM2 (Mar 6, 2007)

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## bridgman (Mar 6, 2007)

I'm really liking the WA1111 over the ROP high and that's not just because I accidentally crunched the 3854 bulb. That might be because the host Mag has not had any resistance mods so the higher current draw of the ROP wasn't really helping to get more light out of the system. 

The WA1111 somehow seems more "usefully bright" than the ROP but without proper A/B testing between the 1111 and the ROP it's hard to be sure.

EDIT -- I finally understood why CPF folks describe their lights in such detail in their sig lines. It's an easy way to remember what you last put in each of the lights so you don't have to take them all apart when you want to find something :naughty:


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 7, 2007)

ZeissOEM2 said:


> Any idea about which new one.????????


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## LumenHound (Mar 7, 2007)

The bulb life of the WA1111 is said to drop down to 8.1 hours when overdriven at 7.4 volts. How conservative is this re-rated bulb life?

We know the #3854 ROP HI bulb lasts quite a while at 7.4 volts but has anyone actually put one on the test bench to see just how many 15 or 30 minute runs it will give at a constant 7.4 volts? Does it give 20 hours? 30 hours??

Like many ROP users, I've put more than 30 hours on a single ROP HI bulb but not all of those hours were 7.4 volts at the bulb.
Anyone gotten 60 hours total or more from a HI bulb in their daily use ROP?

If we were to up the voltage to both bulbs to a *constant* 7.70 would the robustness of the ROP bulb be enough to last 40 15 minute burns? 
Would the WA1111 perish after 20 15 minute burns?


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## MatajumotorS (Mar 7, 2007)

LumenHound said:


> The bulb life of the WA1111 is said to drop down to 8.1 hours when overdriven at 7.4 volts. How conservative is this re-rated bulb life?
> 
> We know the #3854 ROP HI bulb lasts quite a while at 7.4 volts but has anyone actually put one on the test bench to see just how many 15 or 30 minute runs it will give at a constant 7.4 volts? Does it give 20 hours? 30 hours??
> 
> ...


 
I am interested it in too, cause working on ROP with pelican bulbs.


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## VF1Jskull1 (Mar 7, 2007)

Strauss said:


> I don't know much about the WA1111, but I do know that driven with the same battery set-up, the WA1111 will burn whiter than the ROP.



I second that based on ceiling bounce test but it seem like my wa1111 is more a wall of light than it is a thrower.... no bright hotspot like the ROP's.... even the ROP Low has brighter hotspot... and yes I am utilizing the cammed option of the dual function MOP by fivemega.


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## Icebreak (Mar 7, 2007)

I have 3 different versions of the ROP.

In all three it puts out more light than the WA1111. Probably something like 32 watts as opposed to 26 watts. But the WA1111 is little whiter and has a much more defined and intense hot spot whether using SMO, LOP or MOP reflectors.


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## ZeissOEM2 (Mar 7, 2007)

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## jimjones3630 (Mar 8, 2007)

Phillips 5761,kiu kit, [email protected] 2c with 2x18650 2600mah, voltage at 8.2v, HS cammed reflector planed on compairing ROP Ho [email protected], 6 sub c's 3800's but battery voltage somewhat down to 7.4ish.

So sub c's on charger and got out a [email protected], kiu kit, 9x14500 3d host in Fivemega's holder, tailcap resistance lower, etc. voltage of pak at 11.77, non-cammed fm's HS reflector--love that wall of light and still throws over a 100yds I'd bet.

5761 looked whiter with almost the same wall of light look of the [email protected]. It was a whoo moment bringing a big grin. 

When the sub c's are charged and rested and receive the 1111 bulbs will post results.

Thanks to all for posting the data regarding bulbs, batteries and run times.


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## big beam (Mar 9, 2007)

I have one of FM's 2.5 mags with 6 17670 in it .I also have both lamps.1111 and rop This light also has FM's deep reflector.The 1111 has a smaller spot when adjusted than the ROP and the 1111 is whiter @ 7.4v.

BTW I am looking for some potted 1111 if anyone has some to sell please PM me.
DON


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## ZeissOEM2 (Mar 13, 2007)

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## jimjones3630 (Mar 20, 2007)

WA1111 arrived and freshly charged 6x sub C 3800's in [email protected] measuring 8.1v instantflased Phillps 5761, very bright for a fraction of sec. then poof.

WA1111 took the fresh charged pak and had some thow, more than [email protected] with HS reflector, and whiter. After running it for about 5 min. switched to Phillps 5761, bat. Pak @ 7.9v and instantflash again. 

WA1166 in a 13.2v welded pak, measuring 13.9v look more like a flood light even with a mop type reflector, looked simular to the [email protected] with HS reflector just less spill and not as bright.

ROP LO in ROP LE, 2x18650 look weak in comparison, ROP HO in ROP LE would be runner up for last place. 

I conclude I love the Phillips 5761 in a 2 cell pak and like it better than ROP LO or HO.

WA1111 surprised me and I like it better than 1166.

Since the 1111 likes overdrive, instantflashes get expensive, I like it over Phillps 5761.

[email protected] more spill especially with HS reflector, white enought but larger package 3x3 14500's in 3D.

With the availability of AW's Li ON protected C cells hope there will be renewed interest in comparative testing.


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## jimjones3630 (Mar 21, 2007)

6 sub C 3800 measured 7.64v in the [email protected] 5c which had tailcap, switch fixes and kiu, put my last phillip 5761 in and another instantflash. But the wa1111 keeps on going.

AWR's hotrater shows 5761 with 7.4v 1036 tL, and 7.4% from melting so seems would work.

WA1111 630 tL, and 3.8% from melting so my conclusion is the numbers aren't the whole story. 

Tried to post photos, too late can't figure it out.


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