# R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ II



## dano (Jun 3, 2006)

Hola peeps, dano here. I figure that there's a lot of questions about this semi-mod. So, to assist, here's a sticky for the ROP, with a caveat--->

Please keep it simple and to-the-point so the newer members can follow along.

Here's a basic page/info: http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9 to get it started...

-dan


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## mattyg (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ*

Here's a thread that has an excellent run down on where to find all the parts for a ROP build.

This thread has some "brick & mortar" sources for parts.


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## Icebreak (Jun 4, 2006)

*Re: R.O.P. Roar of the Pelican mini-FAQ*

Are there any alternative recipes for the ROP?

Yes, the ROP bulb being 6V invites many combinations.

Here's one: My ROP 1400. About $70.00 in parts and host.

Recipe:

 The host is a *Mag 3C*

Deanodize the tailcap with lye drain cleaner, wirebrush dremmel bit to clean it up good then a squirt of contact cleaner and a quick wipe to condition the surface.

Reshape the spring with a pair of vise grip needle nose pliers and another pair of needle nose pliers so that the bottom spirals are small enough to allow the spring to drop all the way into tailcap. Bend the end of the top spiral so that it intersects its diameter. This is to insure contact with the cathod (-) end of the last battery.

6 Intellect IB1400 2/3 A from CheapBatteryPacks.

Sleeve them in 5/8" ID X 7/8" OD acrylic tube from Home Depot. Split the tube. Just load it up after charging individually. Charging as a pack will require a clamp.

Pelican PE3854 Hi "Big D" 6V SLA bulb (Roar of the Pelican) from brightguy or Lumenhound. Install it.

UCL or borofloat lens. Replace the original lens.

PerfectMagReflector LOP or lightly stippled reflector. Replace the original reflector.

A Mag 3C is 1 7/8" longer than a 2C but 3Cs are a very nice form factor.

4.30A and 8.09V at start.
4.28A and 7.93V at 10 seconds.
4.15A and 7.85V at 30 seconds.
4.12A and 7.73V at 1 minute and settled down.

That's 1.28V per cell, 31.8476W and 20.38 minutes calculated runtime.

Some good things about a ROP 1400:

1) NiMh chargers. You might already own one. If your location is other than home and your light needs a charge; it's more likely to find a NiMh charger than a Li-Ion charger
2) Easy build. 
3) Safe operation. Safe charging. No fear of fiery outgassing.
4) Flexibility. You can run all the 2C 3X123 and 6cell HotWire solution lamps in it, CA1499, CA1057, WA1111, Pelican Big D 6V SLA, Krypton 5C, etc., etc.
5) Expected small initial sag but after that a nice, non-sagging run. IOWs, a fairly flat output.
6) No battery holder. A length of acrylic tube. So, ZIP added resistance from power source.
7) Very nice white temperature color of beam.

***EDIT***

Someone asked about lumens. Here's a calculation. Not a proven fact:

(7.73V / 6.0V) = 1.28
1.28 ^ 3.3 = 2.25
2.25 x 600 = 1350 bulb lumens
A massive *42.39 lu/W*
1350 x .65 = *877* torch lumens

That's if Pelican is factual about 600 lumens. Looks right to me.
That's if the power of 3.3 is correct for rerating. Sounds right to me.
That's if 35% loss is incurred with the reflector and the window. Never have totally agreed with that but apparently an Integrated Sphere was used by CPFers to prove it.

The Big D low is claimed to start out at 290 lumens.
652 bulb lumens rerated
*424* out the front

***End Edit*** 



I'm getting just over 20 minutes before I notice dimming which is about what a SureFire M6 is rated at but there have been many reports of thermal shutdowns at 10 minutes for them. The ROP 1400 does not experience thermal shutdown. The ROP 1400 also puts out more lumens than does the SFM6.

***Edit***

Additional charging information:

A while back I got 3 Vanson Speedy Chargers. They are 4 bay, 4 channel chargers that have adjustable contacts for AAA to D cells. A pack charger would be simpler but these charge the cells individually. This way I can somewhat monitor the health of the cells as well as know they are optimized. For odd cells like these IB 1400s I use spacers.

#10-32 x 1-1/4" machine bolts stuffed into little vinyl tube sections. The vinyl tube is 1/2" OD x 3/8" ID. I top them off with rare earth magnets which are probably not necessary. Really any spacer an inch or so long should work.

Here is a quick and good discussion where Silver Fox and BullseyeBill explain the operation and solve a problem I was having with CB1650s.

Vanson Speedy Charger discussion.

*EDIT*

*Charge the batteries before use.* Don't rely on the charge they came with. I believe this is true for all NiMh cells.

Here is a scan of a charging spacer apart and together, the re-bent spring, the deanodized tail cap and the vinyl tube with cells in it.







EDIT TO ADD 5C ROP ELITE 4500

I remember that some folks have built successful ROPs using 6 SC RC cells. I recall that josey did it using a Mag 6C long ago. I think it was Whitehot that did it in a Mag 5C by moving the switch forward.

The Elite 4500 SCs are fairly new. I don't know if they are better than the IB4200 SCs. What's nice about the Elite 4500s is their diameter. It's 22.86mm.

I recently bought a Mag5C and some Elite 4500s thinking my measurement prediction might work out just right. It didn't. Even the 22.86mm diameter cells wouldn't recess into a de-anodized tale cap.

Dang.

So I commenced to figure out how to bore out the 5C's tailcap with a hand held drill. I went to Sears and got the closest grinding bit I could find. It was too big so I cut it down by running it against a big rat ******* file. It probably wasn't a rat ******* file but I like to say rat *******.

Quickly I realized that the bit would fill up with Al so I needed to provide lubricant whilst grinding. Some Duralube squirt lube worked and let the grinding bit do its job.

Finally an Elite 4500 would fit into the bored out tailcap.

This ROP 4500 should run about an hour. I've run it through one cycle and am using it in a second cycle.

The 5C format works well for handling and it fits nicely on top of my Maxpedition Operator.

I've used it while navigating through a parking lot at night and it owned the parking lot. I used it last weekend while hiking around on an island in the middle of a river and it lasted well. I like this Hotwire enough that I'll probably buy another Mag 5C before they become unattainable.


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## EDP (Mar 23, 2008)

I have a Maglite 2-C that works just fine with the Pelican Lo bulb and 2-18650's (unprotected). When I put in the Pelican Hi bulb, it fails to light. I know that the bulb is good. When I replace the 18650's with 2-C cells and replace the tail cap spring, the Hi bulb lights up dimly, so I know that electrical continuity is OK. I can light up the same bulb brightly with 6-AA's in a different light.

Anybody have any ideas as to why my 2-C Maglite won't light up the Hi bulb with 18650's?


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## FILIPPO (Mar 23, 2008)

I think that they haven't enough power...ROP HIGH drows at 4.5ah...


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## Chrontius (Mar 23, 2008)

The protection circuit is probably detecting a dead short (the filament).


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## FILIPPO (Mar 23, 2008)

EDP said:


> 2-18650's (*unprotected*).


 



> The protection circuit is probably detecting a dead short (the filament).


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## Deputy T. (Mar 26, 2008)

I've finally found the 3c mod I've been looking for. The ROP 1400 seems perfect.

I just have a few questions before I commit:

I visited cheapbatterypacks.com and I didn't see the Intellect IB1400 2/3 A but they had the *Elite 1500*. Would those work? I wanted to order them in a custom stick configuration. Any suggestions for an affordable charging solution?


Would I benefit from using one of these Heatsinks from _download_?
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168722


What's the diameter of the ROP bulbs? I want to find out if my my kaidomain reflector's 8.4mm hole will work or will I have to bore it out?

I thought that I had more question before I started typing, but thats all I could remember...


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## FILIPPO (Mar 26, 2008)

Deputy T. said:


> I've finally found the 3c mod I've been looking for. The ROP 1400 seems perfect.
> 
> I just have a few questions before I commit:
> 
> ...


 
-I think ELITE 1500 will work fine.
-for charging you can get an universal RC charger from CBP and some charging magnet leads 
-ROP bulbs fit also in old FM reflectors with 8.38mm (0.330") hole


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## Icebreak (Mar 27, 2008)

Deputy T. -

Elite 1500s will work. I recall that _js_ has reported failures on both the 1400s and the 1500s. I'll report that out of 28 Intellect 1400s I've had three that won't take a charge. I think the first one that failed was due to abusive use running it down all the way. The other two were on about the 70th cycle. The other 25 are OK. 12 of them have been cycled over 100 times. I recall that LuxLuthor, along with folks that buy his parallel packs using the Elite 1500s, report great success even with HotWires of much greater demand than the ROP lamp.

There's a LEO around this board somewhere that uses his ROP 1400 nightly. The ROP 1400 may be one of the most unpopular HotWires. I think most members opt for KevinL's 2C ROP LE Lithium Edition enjoying the benefit of very little self discharge. I don't think it will perform as well as the ROP 1400. These cells laugh at 5 amps. Initial spike might be 8 or 9 amps, I don't know but that's still much lower than Mike rates them for. I still scratch my head every time I look at those measurements of 1.28V under load at the lamp. Should have been 1.21, maybe 1.23 max but 1.28 is what my DMM read. Very strange. My ROP 1400 is Jade. Looks like something a secretary might have in her car. Trips people out. Some LEOs go fishing at one of the spots I go. They really like it. I think their Streamlights are excellent duty lights but they can't touch my sweet green HotWire. Often I'll run the WA1111 in it. Not nearly the same volume of light but its spot throws better. For a hike through the woods it's great. If I did police work, especially in an urban area, I'd stick with the authoritative presence of the ROP...maybe carry an extra pack.

I don't have download's heat sinks yet but agree with the engineering strategy 100%. I started a thread a while back named Race to Failure that discusses somewhat ROP lamp failures. Heat sinking incandescent lamps is also discussed. Use the on board Google search to find it in this Incandescent forum.


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## fxstsb (Mar 27, 2008)

FILIPPO said:


> I think that they haven't enough power...ROP HIGH drows at 4.5ah...



The 18650 is approx a 2.5 a/hr battery


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## mr.squatch (Mar 27, 2008)

EDP said:


> I have a Maglite 2-C that works just fine with the Pelican Lo bulb and 2-18650's (unprotected). When I put in the Pelican Hi bulb, it fails to light. I know that the bulb is good. When I replace the 18650's with 2-C cells and replace the tail cap spring, the Hi bulb lights up dimly, so I know that electrical continuity is OK. I can light up the same bulb brightly with 6-AA's in a different light.
> 
> Anybody have any ideas as to why my 2-C Maglite won't light up the Hi bulb with 18650's?




I have three rops that run on two 18650s. All run fine on the low bulb but two of them won't fire off on the high. One does. I have a fix that I think is the difference between the two. 

Simple test to see if you have the same problem as me. Push the activation button halfway down, to where it'll turn the light on but not click, then release it and it should be back to off. Practice doing this til you can push halfway down, off then full down all in a very short amount of time. "Double clicking" without the first click. Should light off the high bulb, both of mine do. If not, you may have a different problem. If this technique does work for you, try my fix (not mine, stolen from another cpf'r but I use it). 

Hard to describe in words, I'll try to take a pic later. Find an o-ring that fits inside the metal end cap of the negative end of the battery (about 3/8-1/2" dia) (can't sit on the wrapper, has to fit inside that, on the metal part of the tailplate). See if it'll fit snugly between the bottom of the 2nd battery and the tailcap. The ideal fit is to snug the o-ring in there. If it's too loose (happens with unprotected cells) you may need a couple small magnets for the positive ends to push the batts back a little. Get to where you snug the o-ring when the tailcap is tight. Then take some copper braid (solder wick) and put it thru the center of the o-ring and start wrapping the o-ring diagonally so it wraps loops around the rubber, back thru the center of the o-ring each round, and wrap til you get back to the copper again. It doesn't need to be continous, as long as you get 4-8 wraps in 360 degrees. Then stand the light up on its bezel, tailcap up. Put the batteries (and magnets) in and put the new copper-ized o-ring on top of the 2nd battery so it stays while you thread on the tailcap. The copper gives you an outstanding ground, and the o-ring gives you some spring to push the batts together, just as the tailcap spring used to do much less efficiently. This is the difference between my working light working and not lighting without a double-click. See if it works for you! 

I love my 2c and 3c rops. my 3c fits perfectly with the stock tailcap and two protected 18650's, maybe a little loose if anything but definitely doesn't have the space problems associated with protected cells in a 2c. My favorite every day lights by far. I take em everywhere. Good luck!

g


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## outersquare (Sep 10, 2008)

Built one and this mod sucks, the LO bulb is not any brighter than a xenon 6D mag and it gets hotter. 

In fact the DX R2 in a maxfire is brighter than this setup. I have 6AA setup with generic 2000 mah. 

The HI bulb i can't even get brighter than the LO. It already has copper braid in both springs. 
Waste of $75 or whatever.


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## mr.squatch (Sep 11, 2008)

lol


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## WildChild (Sep 11, 2008)

outersquare said:


> Built one and this mod sucks, the LO bulb is not any brighter than a xenon 6D mag and it gets hotter.
> 
> In fact the DX R2 in a maxfire is brighter than this setup. I have 6AA setup with generic 2000 mah.
> 
> ...



The HI bulb is usually much brighter than the LO bulb... Your batteries probably have a high internal resistance and can't handle the current. Get yourself a good set of Eneloop or Duracell Pre-Charged (the made in Japan with the white top). Also, what batteries adapters are you using? The black 3AA to D usually found at DX have a high resistance...


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## KiwiMark (Jan 11, 2009)

I am currently preparing for my first ROP & Hotwire mods. I have 3 of the 2D Maglites (about 10 years old) and 1 4D Maglite. My 4D has a Malkoff drop-in and 4 x 10Ah NiMH D cells (low self discharge) which produces a lot of light and will run at full power for about 8 hours - I like that one a lot! 

My 2D Maglites are less impressive - 2 have Night Ize drop-ins and they are supposed to give 50 hours of run-time . . . yawn . . . I can run my Jet-IIIM for 200 hours on a 18650 cell if I really care about that kind or run time! One of my 2D Maglites is running 2 x 18650 cells and the 4 cell bulb out of my 4D - it isn't too bad, not as bright as my Malkoff LED, but quite bright and drawing 0.8A for a 2.5 hour run time. I might keep the 4D bulb Maglite running until the bulb burns out, then maybe go through the spare bulb if the first one lasts OK. But the Night Ize drop-ins are junk and have to go (they barely outdo my L0D).

I have been reading up on the ROP & Hotwire mods and am impressed - it looks like you can take a 2C, 3C, 4C, 5C, 6C, 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D or 6D Maglite and turn it into a VERY bright torch that can outshine over 90% of the best LED torches (though less run time than most). I might keep my eyes open on the internet auction sites for spare Maglite hosts going cheap.

I have ordered some stuff from www.flashlightlens.com, www.lighthound.com, www.kaidomain.com and from fivemega. Hopefully kaidomain doesn't take TOO long to send my stuff out (my D cell Li-ions have been on back order for about 4 weeks, ships in 1-3 days - hmmm OK). I bet my other 3 sources of bits arrive before KD send my stuff!

If I can get a 6D host at a reasonable price I might try my old 4000mAh Ni-Cd D cells with a ROP Hi - I could probably get over 40 minutes run time. I doubt the NiCads would have any trouble supplying 4 amps, they tend to be a good chemistry for supplying current. The total cost wouldn't be too bad since I already have the bulbs on the way from Lighthound and the batteries are just lying around at home. All I need is an Aluminum reflector and a Borafloat lens, neither are all that pricey.

I am looking at making one of my 2D Maglites a ROP Lo and running from 2 x Li-ion D cells with a claimed 5000mAh. Even if I only get 4000mAh I will be able to get over 1 hour at >7V I think.

I have a couple of WA1111 bulbs on order as well as a G4 Bi-pin socket, so I will have a go at making one of my 2D Maglites a hotwire, also with 2 x Li-ion D cells.

If I have enough fun with these I will consider picking up more cheap hosts and trying other variations. The 2D sized Maglites are pretty nice & comfortable in the hand - with a golden shorty spring and a couple of D Li-ion cells they are easy to give enough power to be a hell of a good performer with reasonable run time.

I will continue to use LEDs for pocket sized lights, but no harm in owning a few big incans is there?

I will post updates when I get my new mods up and running.


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## KiwiMark (Jan 12, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> One of my 2D Maglites is running 2 x 18650 cells and the 4 cell bulb out of my 4D - it isn't too bad, not as bright as my Malkoff LED, but quite bright and drawing 0.8A for a 2.5 hour run time. I might keep the 4D bulb Maglite running until the bulb burns out, then maybe go through the spare bulb if the first one lasts OK.



Maybe the batteries can run for more than 2 hours - but the bulb totalled less than half an hour (I think) before it blew. I think the run time is too short and I will abandon this configuration.


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## supersund (Jan 14, 2009)

is it normal for the high big D bulb to last only half an hour? it doesnt seem worth building if i have to replace thet bulb as often as i replace the batteries.


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## nitesky (Jan 14, 2009)

That is a good question from supersund. And it raises a question I had for a while, but was afraid it might get me hounded out of town

Does anyone run a Pelican Hi or Lo on 6v, the lamp spec, instead of 7.2v? It probably comes down to the desired blend of output and runtime. I stuck a Lo lamp in a lantern with a 6v SLA with good non-melting results. And if I ever find another good old all metal lantern I may just try that with the Hi bulb. 

But will admit the hotwire option is awesome.


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## KiwiMark (Jan 14, 2009)

supersund said:


> is it normal for the high big D bulb to last only half an hour? it doesnt seem worth building if i have to replace thet bulb as often as i replace the batteries.



What voltage are you running, what is your battery configuration? I have read some are using 6 cells (7.2V) and others are using 7 cells (8.4V). Do you have 6AA => 2D or is it 7AA + dummy => 2D?

I have just picked up a 2nd hand 6D which I want to use for a ROP High - I have 6 x D 4000mAh Ni-Cd Cells that I think still work well, they should be able to provide around 7.2V for a decent output. I have already swapped the lens for a glass one and now I just need my bulbs to arrive and my metal reflector too.

So, there must be plenty of crazy flashaholics out there with ROP High & ROP Low bulbs - how long are they lasting and at what voltage is that?


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## jasonck08 (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm going to be making a unique 3D ROP soon. Instead of using 6x AA's or 6D's, I'm going to be using 6x 2/3A Elite 1500mah cells. They 6 fit easily in a 3D mag, and you don't have to buy an expensive AA to D adaptor, you can make one out of PVC. The capacity of the 2/3 Elite cells are almost as much as the AA's yet they are much smaller.

2/3A Elite 1500 = $1.99
AA Elite 1700 = $2.99

The 2/3A's are a fair amount cheaper!


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## nbp (Jan 15, 2009)

There is tons of info on these types of questions like here 

For me I'm running a 6AA>2D with Eneloops like many others are, and you should get mannnny hours of use out of the bulb. Probably there was something wrong with your bulb. Did you touch it with oily fingers before installing it? Evidently that can cause bulbs to overheat and blow...I'm sure someone should be along with more knowledge soon, but the point is that 30 min runtime before the bulb blew means there was something wrong because that's not supposed to happen.


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## 45/70 (Jan 15, 2009)

supersund said:


> is it normal for the high big D bulb to last only half an hour? it doesnt seem worth building if i have to replace thet bulb as often as i replace the batteries.



I think .... maybe.... you misread KiwiMark's post. He was using a 4D [email protected] krypton 4.8 Volt bulb or, at least that was my impression.

Anyway, I don't use a stopwatch or anything, but I get about 10-15 hrs out of the 3854H. That's @ 7.2 Volt, with CBP 1650's or Elite 1700 AA's.

Dave


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## KiwiMark (Jan 15, 2009)

45/70 said:


> I think .... maybe.... you misread KiwiMark's post. He was using a 4D [email protected] krypton 4.8 Volt bulb or, at least that was my impression.
> 
> Anyway, I don't use a stopwatch or anything, but I get about 10-15 hrs out of the 3854H. That's @ 7.2 Volt, with CBP 1650's or Elite 1700 AA's.
> 
> Dave



You are correct, my post was about my Maglite 4 cell bulb over driven by quite a bit. I didn't click that supersund was referring to my post.

10-15 hours doesn't seem like a great lifespan, but it is not horrible. I am anxiously awaiting my 2 pairs of 3854 bulbs that were sent out from Lighthound a couple of days ago. I am going to try the ROP Low off 2 18650 cells initially and the ROP High off 6 x D NiCad Cells. Both should run for maybe somewhere near an hour per charge, more than 40 minutes at least.


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## 45/70 (Jan 16, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> 10-15 hours doesn't seem like a great lifespan, but it is not horrible. I am anxiously awaiting my 2 pairs of 3854 bulbs that were sent out from Lighthound a couple of days ago. I am going to try the ROP Low off 2 18650 cells initially and the ROP High off 6 x D NiCad Cells.



I should point out that I have always let the the 1650's or 1700's rest at least a hour to get that longevity. You might do OK, with eneloops in the 6xNiMH setup hot off the charger, and I'm sure any of the high capacity NiMH AA's, even the Powerex, Sanyo 2500-2700's, as they really don't cut it in an ROP to start with. Unlike the 1650-1700's and to some extent, the eneloop's, they can't hold 1.2 Volts per cell @ the 4.0+ Amp draw of the ROP. Great for longer runtime, I guess, but not as bright, and quite a bit yellower in color. With all this in mind, I'd definitely, let your D cells rest a bit before firing up your 6 D ROP, to get the best longevity from the 3854H, as their voltage holds up a bit better than the 1650-1700 AA's @ 4 Amps.

Also, the 3854L is being overdriven in the 6x NiMH ROP a bit more than the 3854H. I don't run it with the hobby batteries at all, standard NiMH work the best for it, and eneloop's would probably be OK, maybe with a rest. It will run with the high discharge rate batteries, but it's *really* white, and I can't imagine it lasting very long.

Dave


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## KiwiMark (Jan 20, 2009)

It must be time for a progress update:
I have tried out a ROP High, ROP Low & WA1111 due to a bunch of stuff arriving in the mail.

ROP High:
Working well on a 6D Maglite I purchased 2nd hand for a good price, using 6 x 4000mAh Ni-Cd D cells.

I also tried a ROP High with 2 x Li-ion D cells - no good, the High bulb is too touchy on voltage and instaflashed. Only able to go up to 8.5V before 

On the batteries that don't fry the bulb it is pretty good, lots of light & not too yellow.


ROP Low:
- working well on 2 x Li-ion D cells, is more tolerant of overdriving, able to take 9.6V before 
Good light and not so hard on the batteries - I will probably get around 2 hours run time and much better light than a standard Maglite bulb.

WA1111 - worse than ROP High, can only take 8.2 before  I blew 2 of these despite using an AW soft starter. Good light before blowing, but too expensive to buy bulbs to replace all the blown ones. Also the torch is too unreliable if the bulb can instaflash at any time.

Now:
I will keep using the ROP High in my 6D - it seems to be working fine from my old tired Ni-Cd cells. I will forget the ROP High for my 2D Mags running from 2 x Li-ion cells.

I will keep a ROP Low in one of my 2D Mags - good light and respectable run time, I'm hoping the bulb will give a respectable life.

I will forget the 1111 and WA1185, in fact I will forget WA completely.
I have studied the brilliant info from Lux Luthor here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748 and I have decided to go to only Osram for my hotwire bi-pin bulbs. They put out lots of light and can take a lot of volts and they should last fairly well (from dozens to hundreds of hours, depending on how hard you drive them). I have found some Osram 64432 12V 35W and Osram 64440 12V 50W bulbs at my local hardware store (plenty of stock of each). According to Lux's charts the 64440 can be driven right up to 22V with over 6000 bulb lumens - so if I run it from 4 x Li-ion cells I should get close to 300 hours of bulb life and over 2000 Lumens. From 5 cells the same bulb is capable of outputing over 4000 Lumens, though only with an expected lifespan of 22 hours - but still, with an ability of taking up to 22V then the 18.5V of 5 cells should not have much risk of instaflash (especially running from a soft start driver). 22 Hours is not that bad from a bulb that costs less than 5 bucks, I can live with 25c per hour of use.


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## 45/70 (Jan 20, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> I will keep a ROP Low in one of my 2D Mags - good light and respectable run time, I'm hoping the bulb will give a respectable life.



I'll have to look into the 3854L further. Yours and Lux's findings certainly do seem to indicate that the L should outlast the H at the same drive level. All the times I've looked at Lux's results, I never paid much attention to the ROP results.

Admittedly, I'm on my fourth 3854H and only the second 3854L (which only lasted a few hours), so I haven't really given the L as much of a chance. I do know it's whiter than the H, but not as bright. I would think, just by the color, that the L is being driven closer to it's limit, maybe not. The only other thing I can think of, is my 6AA ROP is fully resistance "tricked" (switch and tail spring), and the Elite 1700AA's, are providing more voltage to the bulbs. Still, that shouldn't make any difference, relatively. 

Maybe I got a different/bad batch of bulbs? I bought these from LightHound about 3 years ago. I guess I'll find out more when my last 3854H goes, as then I won't have much choice. 

Dave


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## KiwiMark (Jan 20, 2009)

45/70 said:


> I'll have to look into the 3854L further.



I think I'll make the 3854L my 'go to' incan light for normal usage - it is bright with good whiteness and has about 2 hours or so run time on my Li-ion D cells. The fact that it is not as bright as a 3854H or the 64623 I am going to build is not a negative, it actually makes the torch better for 'normal' usage. Once I have a 64623 going with over 150W of light and heat I really will only use it to show off and to play with - it will be far too bright and hot and have too short a run time to be a truly useful torch in day to day situations. Of course the 3854L is a very bright normal torch that most non-flashaholics would not think is all that normal, but compared to my other torches I consider it fairly normal.

I am getting some 64430 bulbs as well, not that much different in output to the 3854L unless pushed hard, but will tolerate higher voltage before . This could be my bi-pin version of my 'normal incan' light. According to Lux's estimates the bulb should last well over 100 hours (at normal 2 x Li-ion voltage), so that makes it great as a 2nd 'everyday incan'.

My biggest problem currently is batteries. I have a couple of KD 32600 cells on backorder, it has now been over a month since I ordered them. I have a KD 2x32600 pack and it works fine with my 3854L, Malkoff Drop-in and it should work OK with a 64430 - so I have ordered a few more. But the KD protection circuit seems to be pretty weak and wont run anything that pulls higher current like 50W or more.

I have inquired with AW about the idea of him making a limited run of IMR 32400 cells - they would be capable of running almost anything and you could fit more cells in any given torch. I would be able to run 4 cells in a 2.5D Maglite (I have a couple of fivemega 38mm extension tubes). Unfortunately AW is not currently planning on making these cells at this stage. This is a pity because they would be hard to beat for powering Mag D hotwires. If he makes some IMR C cells I will get a few of them, they should have enough current and capacity to do a decent job and I could probably squeeze 4 cells into a 3D Maglite (maybe de-anodise the tailcap and put a small spring in).


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## 45/70 (Jan 20, 2009)

KiwiMark said:


> I have inquired with AW about the idea of him making a limited run of IMR 32400 cells - they would be capable of running almost anything and you could fit more cells in any given torch. I would be able to run 4 cells in a 2.5D Maglite (I have a couple of fivemega 38mm extension tubes).




Ya, now that would be something I'd be interested in! I prefer torches no bigger than a 2D [email protected] though. A 2D Li-Ion equipped ROP with IMR's, would definitely work well for me.

I'm mostly an LED "Pocket Light" guy. The smaller the better, for the most part. I, still, have a weak spot for hotwires though. My ROP and my Streamlight Strion (pocketable) are the most used of the few I have. I live out in the country, and to me, there's nothing better to really see something with, than an incan, provided, it has some actual light coming out of it. 

As far as "playing" with incans, I rely on my 2D, 15.6V [email protected] 623. Quite impressive, to me anyway, but the 7-8 minute runtime, and the heat, do become a problem as far as it being a "user". I also have an AuroraLite H1499, but it suffers the same problems as the [email protected] 623.

I'm going to try the 3854L out some more, but I think I'm going to miss the extra output of the H. I'll see. Sounds like you have some good plans Kiwi, good luck! :thumbsup:

Dave


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## ZardHex (Jan 21, 2009)

hey guys...been running 2 trustfire(cheap) protected 18650s in my ROP-lo 2D for quite a few months and i usually run it on average of about 20min/week...i can go almost a month before the protection on the batts kick in and i have to recharge...my vmm tests them at 4.15V a piece before i throw them back in the light (draws about 2.0A at the tailcap.) I've been running this config since the summer and no problems...the hi-bulb has been more problematic whereas the TF's protection prevents the startup current it needs to fire...i managed to get a couple of 1700mAH 18650's out of a recycled Dell laptop battery to get a few faint sparks from it but thats about it...the 3854H is a current hog that seems like it needs the higher quality protected/unprotected li-ion cells(rested down to about 8V) to work...it will fire on a cheap 6V SLA i salvaged from a bargain bin 55W lantern, but not too bright and the battery wont last more than 5min due to the battery's low-quality (not Pelican's fault, still a great bulb from what most the ROP-Hi owners are praising) Oh, to have the money for $100+ for nimh's and a smart charger :shrug:

...just my $0.02


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## KiwiMark (Jan 21, 2009)

45/70 said:


> Ya, now that would be something I'd be interested in! I prefer torches no bigger than a 2D [email protected] though. A 2D Li-Ion equipped ROP with IMR's, would definitely work well for me.
> 
> As far as "playing" with incans, I rely on my 2D, 15.6V [email protected] 623. Quite impressive, to me anyway, but the 7-8 minute runtime, and the heat, do become a problem
> 
> Dave



I would be willing to add a short extension to turn one of my 2D Maglites (I currently have 3) into a 2.5D if it let me have 4 Li-ion cells. If I could get 15-16 minutes out of a Mag623 in 2.5D size compared to 7-8 minutes out of a 2D sized one then it really doesn't seem to be all that bad a deal. A small increase in size for double the run time can't be all that horrible can it?

The other project I want to build is taking a 4D Mag and loading it with 6 x 32400 cells (if I could convince AW to make them) and running this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/218506 driver to give me control over how many volts I feed to a 64623 or 64458 bulb. It would be a bit of a big torch, but a regulated 150W output would be pretty damned sweet!


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## Fallingwater (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm trying to help someone build a ROP, and I have a question.
If a 2D ROP is fitted with two unprotected 32600 LiIon cells and the high bulb, what runtimes and bulb lifetimes can be expected?
Thanks.


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## Jarski (Feb 15, 2009)

How much brighter the rop would come if I do resistance mod to switch and tailcap? 

This is 2D mag with FM 6AA>2D adapter and 6xeneloops. Lens is plastic and in this picture the stock reflector is inside. First is fenix ld20 turbo, then rop high.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2e5twgp.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2nssxle.jpg

Edit: Can I clean the contacts of battery adaptor with isopropyl?


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## KiwiMark (Feb 16, 2009)

Fallingwater said:


> I'm trying to help someone build a ROP, and I have a question.
> If a 2D ROP is fitted with two unprotected 32600 LiIon cells and the high bulb, what runtimes and bulb lifetimes can be expected?
> Thanks.



Around an hour or so from fully charged batteries, not too sure about how long the bulb will live for though.


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## supasizefries (Mar 11, 2009)

Has anyone ever had a problem with the Pelican Hi Bulb (3854) being potted askew? I just recently built a 2D ROP and the Pelican Hi Bulb that I got isn't "nested" perfectly straight. I'm using it with an M2 camless MOP reflector and I get mostly flood as opposed to a throw, and I'm wondering if this is due to the bulb leaning closer to one side of the reflector. Anyone have any advise?


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## 45/70 (Mar 11, 2009)

supasizefries said:


> Has anyone ever had a problem with the Pelican Hi Bulb (3854) being potted askew?



Hey, supasizefries, welcome to CPF!

This is a pretty common problem with "production" potted bulbs. The only thing you can really do, is bend the flange on the bulb's base to raise one side a bit when the retainer ring is screwed down. Remember, you're trying to center the filament, not necessarily the glass envelope.

Hope this helps.

Dave


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## supasizefries (Mar 11, 2009)

45/70 said:


> Hey, supasizefries, welcome to CPF!
> 
> This is a pretty common problem with "production" potted bulbs. The only thing you can really do, is bend the flange on the bulb's base to raise one side a bit when the retainer ring is screwed down. Remember, you're trying to center the filament, not necessarily the glass envelope.
> 
> ...



Hey thanks for the welcome and thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can center the filament better.


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## Icebreak (Mar 12, 2009)

It could also be what I call axial focusing, IOWs the up and down like a cam would normally handle. I don't have that reflector but most of the customs I've used required shimming with thin washer-like shims.

If you are getting a comet shape that's definitely lateral focusing and can be cured just as 45/70 indicates. It may take two or three tries.

Sometimes I'll use safety glasses and fiddle with the reflector without the head on to see what looks optimal. Just for a few seconds though. You don't want to bump hot glass with a cold reflector.


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## supasizefries (Mar 13, 2009)

After reading some replies to my comment, it seems that my lack of throw problems is more due to the bulb protruding to high into the reflector. I was playing around with it last night and was loosening the head so that the bulb was sitting lower. This resulted in a much nicer throw but at the cost of the head being unscrewed past the 0-ring.  I'll have to try the washer shim trick to lower the bulb. Thanks to all who have schooled me in the art of ROP!


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## Icebreak (Mar 13, 2009)

The seller might have shims. These little shims I'm talking about are very thin, much more so than most washers but they look like a washer. They work best inside the silver lamp retaining cap but can work outside it. Last time I got some they were from Litho123 but that was years ago.


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## ElectronGuru (May 8, 2009)

We've learned enough about AWs latest battery (IMR26500) to add it to the master thread.

The bad news
The IMR26500 (aka IMR/C) puts out near charger levels of voltage for some time and is therefore prone to poofing the Pelican 3854-H bulb.

The good news
While the 6.0v 3854-H does blow, the 7.2v 3853-H not only works with these cells, it works very well with zero rest time (thanks to member: lctorana). And Lux should be adding the 3853's to the destructive test group this month!

Result
Once the cells fit, you have a compact, high performance, easy to use, low cost ROP platform:

Mag 2C - $20
batteries - $30
reflector - $10
borofloat - $6
3853 set - $8
*total* - $74​


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## KevinL (Jul 14, 2009)

ElectronGuru said:


> We've learned enough about AWs latest battery (IMR26500) to add it to the master thread.
> 
> The bad news
> The IMR26500 (aka IMR/C) puts out near charger levels of voltage for some time and is therefore prone to poofing the Pelican 3854-H bulb.
> ...



Nice findings 

I considered the IMR's, but I also remember my Sub-C (30A rated) pack hot off the charger poofed plenty of bulbs, which really annoyed me. The pack was heckofabright though. 

The difference with NiMH is that resting overnight will drop the voltage to safe levels, whereas with IMR you're gonna be waiting a long time for the self discharge to kick in.

As always, still amazes me that this light is going strong.

Where are you folks buying the 6AA-to-2D adapters from these days?


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## 45/70 (Jul 14, 2009)

KevinL said:


> Nice findings
> 
> I considered the IMR's, but I also remember my Sub-C (30A rated) pack hot off the charger poofed plenty of bulbs, which really annoyed me. The pack was heckofabright though.
> 
> ...




Hey, Kevin :wave:

I'm not much help with where to find 6AA-2D adaptors, I'm still using one of modamag's originals.

What I'd like to do is get away from the 6AA-2D setup altogether, and maintain the 2D size. Ya, I know that's the original setup and all, but even the hobby cells I use (CBP 1650, Elite 1700 etc.) just don't last very long (in regards to number of cycles, not runtime). I can't imagine that Sanyo 2700's et al, last as long, and of course, are poor performers from the get go anyway.

If we could get LiFePO4 D cells (3.2 Volt) and run the 3854, that'd be an acceptable combo, I would think. Another possibility is 3.6-3.7 Volt Li-Ions in D size with the 3853. Unfortunately, neither of these at present, are available. For now I guess, I'll stick with Elites.

I'll always want my ROP to be a 2D. It looks like your average [email protected], smells like your average [email protected], tastes like your average [email protected] thinking, but when the uninformed pick it up, point it at their face and turn it on...........:naughty:

Dave


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## Mjolnir (Jul 14, 2009)

There are some D cells at Kaidomain, both protected and unprotected. They are $22 and $16 respectively, so there is chance that they could be of decent quality.


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## Alan B (Jul 14, 2009)

I have been using the unprotected KD D cells (for some other projects). They have been tested here on CPF at about 4.8AH and can handle about 10 amps. No problems with protection circuits limiting current, etc. However no safety either.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 14, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> There are some D cells at Kaidomain, both protected and unprotected. They are $22 and $16 respectively, so there is chance that they could be of decent quality.



I have both and find that the unprotected D cells work well.

Protected D cells work thusly:
3853-L - :thumbsup:
3854-L - :thumbsup:
3853-H - Probably will work, don't do any resistance fixes and cross fingers.
3854-H - Too many amps, the protection circuit will trip every time.

It seems that around 3.5 - 4.0 A is the limit for the protection circuit and the 3854-H will pull around 4.4A so it just doesn't work with the protected cells.

My protected cells and my 3854-L bulb are my favourite combo - around 2 hours of run time, nice light (colour, brightness, etc) and the bulb is quite tolerant of the voltage it is getting so no . This is great for every day use as a bright incan 2D that makes a standard 6D look pathetic.

My unprotected cells and 3854-H is nice and bright but would be pushing it to get 1 hour and it isn't a good idea to push the limits with unprotected cells anyway. OK for occasional use though.

The 3853-L only draws 1.6A while the 3854-L draws 2.0A, but Lux says that the 3853-L has not survived well in his tests:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3853-L.jpg
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/pike444/bulbs/3854-LROP.jpg
I haven't blown a 3853-L yet and it is a nice light in use, but he 3854-L should last much better since it is capable of withstanding the full 8.4V (with a massive 1.2V margin) from 2 fresh Li-ion cells (IMR, D cells or whatever).

The 3853-H & 3854-H are the opposite way around to the L bulbs with the 3853-H tolerating much more voltage and therefore making it a good option for a brighter Li-ion ROP. Drawing around 3.5A instead of 4.4A means it should work most* of the time from KD protected D-cells.




* It is a nuisance when the 3853-H wont turn on - I sometimes end up having to partly unscrew the tailcap to up the resistance a little. Once the bulb is warm I can turn the light on and off with no problems. I think the combo of 3853-H & KD protected D cells is not bad if it works each time, but may need some sort of resistance increasing measure on some torches. It works fine every time on one pair of protected D cells and sometimes gets fussy on another pair, so it is a bit hit and miss with this combo.


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## Mjolnir (Jul 14, 2009)

From my preliminary use, it seems like the ROP low is way more practical. It is still very bright, even when compared with high output LEDs, but it has MUCH better color rendition (in fact, it makes all of my LED lights look alien by comparison). I really can't tell all that much of a difference between the low and high bulbs, at least with the cells I am using (I haven't done any resistance mods on the switch yet).


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## KiwiMark (Jul 14, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> From my preliminary use, it seems like the ROP low is way more practical. It is still very bright, even when compared with high output LEDs, but it has MUCH better color rendition (in fact, it makes all of my LED lights look alien by comparison). I really can't tell all that much of a difference between the low and high bulbs, at least with the cells I am using (I haven't done any resistance mods on the switch yet).



The ROP low is easily twice as good if you like more run time. The ROP high should be noticeably brighter (not lots brighter, but should definitely be noticeable) in a side by side comparison, but the ROP low should be more than bright enough for . . . well just about anything really. ROP low = plenty of light from a 2A current draw.


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## 45/70 (Jul 14, 2009)

Great information, gentleman! :thumbsup: Ideally, I'd like to stay with the 3854H/3854L combo.



Mjolnir said:


> I really can't tell all that much of a difference between the low and high bulbs, at least with the cells I am using (I haven't done any resistance mods on the switch yet).


Mjolnir, all I can say is, with the full switch fix and 6 _good _Elite 1700's, you don't need a light meter to tell the difference between the 3854H and the 3854L. I would say, to my eyes anyway, the H is at least half again as bright, probably closer to twice. It sounds like your batteries lack sufficient punch to drive the 3854H. What cells are you using?

It's kinda funny how I first discovered when my cells were "over the hill". I had been using CBP 1650's for a while (20-25 cycles maybe?) with the 3854H and I put in a 3854L for some reason or another, and it was brighter! They really don't last too long @4.3 Amps. And, as I mentioned before, if your using a 6AA-2D pack with regular high cap NiMH's, they just don't cut it in an ROP. They're fine for the low, but that's about it.

Dave


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## Mjolnir (Jul 14, 2009)

I am actually using 18650s, since I already have a PILA IBC charger, and no decent Nimh charger. I really don't want to mess around with 6 cells and an adapter. I am fully aware that the cells are probably causing a reduction in brightness with the high output bulb, although they are probably as good as any 18650's around. I may get some lithium ion D cells eventually (which should stand up to the current better), but right now the low bulb is enough (and has much more runtime).


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## KevinL (Jul 15, 2009)

Interesting. I am using 18650's as well, real high quality cells that have stood up to much over the years, but with no resistance fixes. The difference between L and H bulbs is very, very clear. It's even clearer on high-rate NiMH (6xSubC, 30A rated) in the 'original' 4D ROP that started it all. No resistance fixes on that one either. 

L is a very practical bulb, but I like H... 

Having popped more H than L, I now have a surplus of L bulbs. Oh, the L is also very resilient to instaflash, come to think of it. My high rate NiMH pack pops H for breakfast, but L stands up to the best I can dish out at it. I wonder how tolerant it would be of IMR cells.

As I consistently remind people, the ROP is particularly unforgiving on poor grade batteries. Regular NiMH don't cut it, you need high-rate NiMH. These days we prefer the Eneloop - good to five amps. We didn't have Eneloops when I started so we recommended CBP's.. now we have the best of all worlds 

Also, amongst other observations, ROP LE's are dimmer than their NiMH cousins. Simple reason.....18650's have more sag than high-rate NiMH.


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## KiwiMark (Jul 15, 2009)

KevinL said:


> Also, amongst other observations, ROP LE's are dimmer than their NiMH cousins. Simple reason.....18650's have more sag than high-rate NiMH.



Unless you use IMR 18650 cells. They work great with the ROP Low, but may  the high bulb.


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## ElectronGuru (Jul 15, 2009)

KevinL said:


> the L is also very resilient to instaflash, come to think of it.



The 3854-L is some kind of alien super bulb. Here's a photo study comparing it to the 3853-L. Blue is the 7.2v 3853L and red is the 6.0v 3854L.


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## Mjolnir (Jul 15, 2009)

Has anyone else used the 8.3 mm opening MOP reflectors from KD? Mine gives my ROP a very large hotspot that is elliptical, not round (because of the filament). Most of the beamshots that I have seen of the ROP have smaller hotspots than mine. Given how large the reflector is, I did not expect such a large hotspot. In fact, my T10L outthrows the ROP low, while my 3D malkoff maglite probably outthrows the ROP high as well. Perhaps the bulb can't go far enough out into the reflector to focus properly, or maybe those reflectors simply aren't designed for throw at all. The elliptical beam pattern is quite annoying though...

Also, where can I find more info about IMR cells, and how they differ from normal Lithium ion cells in usage? IS it just as bad if they are overdischarged?


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## 45/70 (Jul 15, 2009)

KevinL said:


> These days we prefer the Eneloop - *good to five amps*.



Ehhh, I duno about that one.  I think eneloops are great. I've replaced just about all my AA and AAA NiMH's with them. The way I look at it though, a NiMH cell should hold at least 1.2 Volts under the load applied to it.

If you look at Tom's (SilverFox) graphs, @4 Amps, the eneloop is just about as bad as the Sanyo 2700 (the 3854H draws 4.3A in my ROP). Different in some ways, but overall, very similar. I'd say the eneloop is good for 2 Amps, maybe 3 in a pinch. Not ROP 3854H material.

If you look at the now discontinued CBP 1650's graph, you can see it holds over 1.2 Volts for about half it's discharge, @ _*5 Amps.*_ The eneloop falls to 1.15 Volts almost from the start, and it doesn't get any better from there. :sick2: The Sanyo 2700 holds a tiny bit better voltage at the start, but drops off as well. Actually the CBP 1650 doesn't drop to 1.15 Volts (basically where the eneloop and 2700 start) until it starts to drop off, period. If you look at the Elite 1700's graph (from CheapBatteryPacks), you can see it holds it's voltage a little better than the CBP 1650, but _*@ 10 Amps*_! Both the CBP 1650 and the Elite 1700, would of course, do better at only 4 Amps.

So, what does all this BS mean? Well, incans are driven by voltage, not current as LEDs are. So let's say we have a 6AA-2D pack that will run under a 4 Amp load (approx 3854H in an ROP) and average 1.2 Volts per cell through 80% of the discharge (CBP 1650/Elite 1700) and a 6AA-2D pack that under the same load only averages 1.13 Volts (eneloop/Sanyo 2700). Average pack voltages would be 1.2x6=7.2 Volts and 1.13x6=6.78 Volts respectively.

Now let's look at Lux's chart in the Destructive Incan Bulb Tests thread for the 3854H. At 7.2 Volts we get an estimated 1044 bulb lumens. At 6.8 Volts we get a predicted 876 bulb lumens. That's a difference of 168 lumens. Not that big of a deal really, but keep in mind the higher an incan is driven the whiter it is as well.

To me it makes a difference. On the other hand, if runtime is what you're after and the amount/quality of the output is secondary, go with eneloops or the high cap NiMHs. The hobby battery solution does sacrifice runtime, but it's brighter and whiter throughout the run.

I have to say, I'm getting like Mjolnir though, after almost 4 years with my ROP, I'm tired of fiddling with 6 batteries and the carrier, need to find a 2D Li-Ion solution. :sigh:

Dave


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## 45/70 (Jul 15, 2009)

Mjolnir said:


> Also, where can I find more info about IMR cells, and how they differ from normal Lithium ion cells in usage? IS it just as bad if they are overdischarged?



Mjolnir, this probably isn't what you're looking for and you may have already checked it out, but ... Lithium 18650 Safe .......

Dave

*EDITED, Screwy link*


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## KevinL (Jul 16, 2009)

Interesting - we always used to think the Eneloop was great at high amperage and the ultimate ROP bulb. 

2C or 2D Li-ion should do fine.. or a straight stick of six SubC which is what I used to have 

Is the ROP 4 years old already? That is old, as lights go. It has been a fantastic run. 

Electronguru....what's up with the L? Surprisingly thick filament?


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## ElectronGuru (Jul 16, 2009)

KevinL said:


> Electronguru....what's up with the L? Surprisingly thick filament?



Not sure as to the cause, but it seems to combine the best properties of efficiency and durability, including a very wide voltage range.


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## TEMA (Aug 5, 2009)

Hi guys!

I'm new here and I've decided to buy a 6D Mag, and build a ROP from it. I have done some research on the forum, but I'm still confused with the reflectors. Since I haven't had any Mag in my hands, I dont't know what is the difference between cammed and camless reflector. 
Now I use a Fenix P3D, it doesn't have throw, so I want a beam range between 70m defocused and min.300-400m focused. Which reflector would be appropriate for my needs? LOP or SMO?

Thanks


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Aug 6, 2009)

TEMA-we joined CPF at the same time but you only have 1 posting and I have over 500.Does that mean I have no life!:mecry:

As far as your question goes you can't get 300-400m of throw with a standard maglite head and a Pelican bulb.A ROP is mostly flood regardless of which reflector is used.My favorite ROP features a MOP reflector and a lightly frosted bulb(using Armour Etch).It produces a nice smooth beam that will light up a 100m field-but not much further.

The cam on these reflectors allow you to focus the bulb but can be unscrewed if necessary.


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## Mjolnir (Aug 6, 2009)

You would need an HID for that kind of range, or a large incandescent spotlight.


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## Jarski (Oct 4, 2009)

Anyone know how much light is wasted with stock maglite reflector which is a little bit molten? I'm going to buy new one, but it looks like there aren't any vlop or lop for sale.


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## lctorana (Oct 4, 2009)

I'd say 28.39%, give or take.


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## jabe1 (Oct 4, 2009)

lctorana said:


> I'd say 28.39%, give or take.


LOL

Thanks!


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## Jarski (Oct 5, 2009)

LOL

I think I have to wait for new run of lop reflectors or order one from KD or sandwichshoppe.

Edit: Another stupid question, if I decide to upgrade my ROP to li-ion would aw 2600 be suitable for this? Charging 6 nimh batteries is a bit hassle, because eneloop stock charger charges only 4 battery at a time.


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## WHT_GE8 (Nov 12, 2009)

About to order the parts for my ROP build, just want to make sure ive got everything right. Using a 2D Mag.

Battery Carrier 6AA > 2D : https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/223785

Bulb: http://www.lighthound.com/Pelican-Big-D-Rechargeable-Lamp-Set-FL-3854_p_1506.html

Lens: http://www.lighthound.com/521mm-UCL-Lens-for-Mag-C-amp-D-Size-Flashlights_p_44.html

15MM metal MOP reflector: http://britelumens.com/MagLiteParts.html

Am I missing anything? Or did I get something wrong?

Will these sleeves allow to me to run 2x 18650 without any modification? http://britelumens.com/images/1.JPG


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## KiwiMark (Nov 12, 2009)

WHT_GE8 said:


> 15MM metal MOP reflector: http://britelumens.com/MagLiteParts.html



You might want to consider this one: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/247685 if you can stretch your budget to it.


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Nov 13, 2009)

WHT_GE8-as far as lenses go I prefer a borosilicate lens.Much tougher and longer lasting than standard UCL lens.You lose a little light but not so much that it makes a difference.

How many bulbs were you intending to buy?I would buy at least 2 or 3 sets.Since these bulbs are being overdriven they have very short lives.I have had some last as little as 2 hours and some go over 10 hours-but not much more.

Other than that everything looks good.Place your order and wait for the big brown truck of joy to deliver the parts.


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## WHT_GE8 (Nov 13, 2009)

ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> WHT_GE8-as far as lenses go I prefer a borosilicate lens.Much tougher and longer lasting than standard UCL lens.You lose a little light but not so much that it makes a difference.
> 
> How many bulbs were you intending to buy?I would buy at least 2 or 3 sets.Since these bulbs are being overdriven they have very short lives.I have had some last as little as 2 hours and some go over 10 hours-but not much more.
> 
> Other than that everything looks good.Place your order and wait for the big brown truck of joy to deliver the parts.


 
Thanks for the heads up. Hope I dont mess this up, I know it seems simple but im known for turning the simplest tasks into catastrophe :mecry:


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## Jarski (Mar 18, 2010)

Sorry for bump! 

I was looking what old camera stuff my dad has and saw an plastic aspherical lens (sort of) and thought that "this looks much like the same size than maglite D:s lens". And as it turns out, it is actually the same size. Then I tested it on ROP and what you got: A burning hot pinpoint hotspot 15cm from the lens! It really scorches everything it touches! Gonna post pics someday soon!


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## KeyGrip (Apr 1, 2010)

Jarski said:


> Edit: Another stupid question, if I decide to upgrade my ROP to li-ion would aw 2600 be suitable for this? Charging 6 nimh batteries is a bit hassle, because eneloop stock charger charges only 4 battery at a time.



I run my 2C ROP off two AW brand 3.7v Li-Ions just fine. You need to buy an extender for the Mag body, though.


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## Jarski (Apr 1, 2010)

Is that really needed for 2D? I thought that cutting the tailspring is enough?


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## KeyGrip (Apr 1, 2010)

Only needed on a 2C.


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## mrartillery (Apr 1, 2010)

KeyGrip said:


> I run my 2C ROP off two AW brand 3.7v Li-Ions just fine. You need to buy an extender for the Mag body, though.



AW IMR 26500's dont require the extender but they will require some boring of the C tube. Very neat and stock looking appearance when its complete though, all of my C cells are done this way. :thumbsup:

If you're going to use the 2d, I would go with 2- 26650's with a 1 inch pvc pipe in the barrel for a battery tube.


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## jcvjcvjcvjcv (Apr 9, 2010)

And if the PVC tube doesn't fit (European system); take a PB Tools TX 30 screwdriver, heat the tube (hot air gun) and put the grip of the screwdriver in it. I successfully enlarged a tube that way to fit DX 25500 cells just today.

As a way to make contact without ruining the rear of the batts with the Magspring: take a €0.01 coin and put a €0.05 coin on top of it. The spring fits nice on the 5 cent coin and the 1 cent coin fits nice within the isolation.


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## valimarele (Sep 23, 2010)

*rop mod problem*

I upgraded my 6d maglite to rop mod and i'm not satisfied.If i compare hi pelican bulb with 6d xenon magnum,pelican hi is aprox. 30% brighter.
rop mod:
maglite 6d
pelican bulb hi and low
borofloat lens lighthound
camless smo reflector sandwich shoppe
6pcs AA to D adaptors
6 eneloops
I am a litle disappointed because i payed ~60$ for a litle more brighter flashlight!


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## Scattergun (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: rop mod problem*

I guess the added resistance you are getting with the D-AA adapters aren´t really helping you. Why don´t you just buy rechargeable D-cells?


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## valimarele (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: rop mod problem*

because the price is ~120$ (6x10000ma) with charger.Another option would be to by a 2D mag body and a 2D-6AA adaptor with low resistance.Will cost me ~55$.


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## valimarele (Sep 23, 2010)

WildChild said:


> The HI bulb is usually much brighter than the LO bulb... Your batteries probably have a high internal resistance and can't handle the current. Get yourself a good set of Eneloop or Duracell Pre-Charged (the made in Japan with the white top). Also, what batteries adapters are you using? The black 3AA to D usually found at DX have a high resistance...


I have the same problem,i use eneloops and the output seems not brighter then xenon 6d bulb!I think the 6D body have great resistance!


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## mrartillery (Sep 23, 2010)

valimarele said:


> I have the same problem,i use eneloops and the output seems not brighter then xenon 6d bulb!I think the 6D body have great resistance!



What battery setup are you using?


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## mrartillery (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: rop mod problem*

As Scattergun said, your problem is resistance, you need to either go with rechargeable D's or get yourself a new host such as a 2 D and a *quality* cell holder such as the ones FM sells, then you will have yourself a nice light.


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## fivemega (Sep 23, 2010)

valimarele said:


> I have the same problem,i use eneloops and the output seems not brighter then xenon 6d bulb!I think the 6D body have great resistance!



*Body resistance is something I never worry about.
If you get poor performance in 2D M*g with 6 Eneloops and Pelican 3854 HO bulb, find the problem in:
1- weak or bad batteries.
2- Too much resistance in battery holder.
3- Too much switch resistance. (Fix it.)
4- Too much tail spring resistance. (fix it.)*


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## bigchelis (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: rop mod problem*

While testing WA1185's and ROP's I discovered the OTF lumens are much much higher when using IMR 26500/IMR 18650/ IMR 26650 vs. 6AA or 9AA adaptors for D size mags. 

If you already have a 2C Mag and some 18650's (preferably IMR) just swap the parts over and prepare to be amazed.


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## mrartillery (Sep 23, 2010)

As FM said those are all great fixes, but his problem is (as i read in his other thread) is that he is using 6 of these, which will create a lot of resistance which is probably why he is having poor performance.


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## mrartillery (Sep 23, 2010)

*Re: rop mod problem*



bigchelis said:


> While testing WA1185's and ROP's I discovered the OTF lumens are much much higher when using IMR 26500/IMR 18650/ IMR 26650 vs. 6AA or 9AA adaptors for D size mags.



This is true, you will notice a difference when using the li-ons vs. the AA's, I have both setups in the 1185, either is a great call. Although the 9 aa version is my most used light, good runtime and great output. For someone just starting out however i would recommend them to use aa's just for the simple fact that they are easier to handle/charge, li-ons are great but you may want to get a little knowledge of them before you take the plunge.


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## KiwiMark (Sep 23, 2010)

valimarele said:


> I think the 6D body have great resistance!



The 6D body is a big chunk of Aluminium - the resistance of that is VERY LITTLE.

My 6D is running a 3854-H bulb and is WAY brighter than the Xenon 6D bulb. I am running some 4,000mAh NiCd D cells that are over a decade old - the performance is good when the batteries are freshly charged, but not so good after a while - I really should get some new batteries.


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## valimarele (Sep 24, 2010)

My eneloops are fresh,i think the adaptors are build in a poor quality.I will try to reduce the rezistance in tailcap spring and in the switch.


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## lumen aeternum (Oct 7, 2012)

The link to the explanation of WHAT this "ROP mod" is, leads to a blank(dead) page.

So somebody edit Post #1.

Or is the whole topic now simply out of date? If so, editing post #1 to that effect would be useful.


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## Kestrel (Oct 8, 2012)

lumen aeternum said:


> The link to the explanation of WHAT this "ROP mod" is, leads to a blank(dead) page.
> 
> So somebody edit Post #1.
> 
> Or is the whole topic now simply out of date? If so, editing post #1 to that effect would be useful.



FYI, there is more info on this topic in the following thread:
Redux: Mag 2C running 3x CR123A


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## StorminMatt (Nov 11, 2012)

One thing about the ROP that has always surprised me is the relative silence (especially in the various how-to's) of using a 6D body. Almost everything seems to focus on using smaller bodies (especially 2D) and trying to power it with AA or lithium batteries. The possibility of going 6D instead is seldom even mentioned. And while I can certainly understand the desire to build a small light with that kind of output, the fact is that a 6D (as large as it is) actually makes for a MUCH more practical light. When it comes to batteries, you simply get six NiMH D cells, and be done with it. No worries about whether the batteries can actually supply 4A without excessive voltage drop or kicking the bucket, because you know they can produce much more without breaking a sweat. Not to mention that, even with an 8000mAH LSD D battery, you can probably get close to two hours of runtime using the high bulb. And with the low bulb (which is still quite a bit brighter than most stock lights out there, even many costing MUCH more), you get around FOUR hours of runtime. Not bad. Yes, it's big and heavy. But the way I see it, the fact that it's NOT going to go dead on you in a half hour (or less) and that the high current capabilities of a D battery mean it will REALLY put out both make up for the size and weight.

Another good option would be a 6C. You still get MUCH better current delivery without voltage drop from a C battery compared to a AA. And capacity is about twice a AA, which means you still get significantly more runtime. Unfortunately, the 6C isn't made anymore. But it would probably be possible to stuff 6 C batteries into a 5D or maybe even a 4D.

Yet another option might be half D batteries. These are slightly harder to find, require a spacer for charging in most chargers, but have about the capacity of a C battery. With half D batteries, it might be possible to stuff six into a 4D or maybe even a 3D. If it's possible, a 3D ROP using six half D batteries might be the best compromise between (relatively) small size, current capability, and runtime.


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## vicv (Mar 24, 2013)

I like the idea of 6 1/2 d's in a 3d if they are actually 1/2 the length. And they should be ok to charge in a aa charger with spacers. I'm wondering though for those of you running a 2d with 6aa in series with holders. What about getting cheapbatterypacks to make a 2x3 tri pack of elite2000(if they get more in stock). No added resistance of adaptors or the trouble of loose cells and easily charged with a pack or hobby charger. If they can make it 2d sized it would be a great solution especially being that the quality adaptors no longer seem to be available


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## fivemega (Mar 24, 2013)

*1/2D cells are about 36mm long while full size Ds are about 60mm long.
So only 5 of them will fit in 3D m*g
There were (and still are) many option for rechargeable M*g C and D
Here are small part of the very old threads which are closed but you will get some ideas from:

Rechargeable 6AA to 2D

Rechargeable 4AA to 1D

Rechargeable 3x17670 to 1.25D

Rechargeable 2P/2S 18650 to 2.5D

Rechargeable 2x18650 in 2.5C

Rechargeable Chrome/red 2.5C

BTW, get away from conventional NiCad and NiMH cells and use only low self discharge NiMH and protected Li-Cobalt batteries.*


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## FILIPPO (Apr 4, 2013)

vicv said:


> I like the idea of 6 1/2 d's in a 3d if they are actually 1/2 the length. And they should be ok to charge in a aa charger with spacers. I'm wondering though for those of you running a 2d with 6aa in series with holders. What about getting cheapbatterypacks to make a 2x3 tri pack of elite2000(if they get more in stock). No added resistance of adaptors or the trouble of loose cells and easily charged with a pack or hobby charger. If they can make it 2d sized it would be a great solution especially being that the quality adaptors no longer seem to be available



as fivemega wrote 6 x 1/2 D won't fit in a mag 3D ... Anyway you can use an extender ad get near the 4D lenght.. I think this is the best way to have a good runtime without boring the mag tube that can be difficoult.. 

Another option are li-ion cells... For example 2 x 32500s in a mag 2D .. Very good runtime too but be carefull with this batteries!! Make sure you know what you're doing!


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## Minimoog (Nov 3, 2016)

I have just built my first R.O.P.! Now, since about a decade has passed and things have become unavailable, this is what I did - how did I do? Any further changes I could make? All these items were as available in Oct 2016.

Mag 2C host
2 x Efest 'purple' IMR 3000mAh 26500 cells
R.O.P High bulb
Kaidomain MOP cammed metal reflector
Kaidomain coated glass lens

I fitted the metal reflector and glass lens, copper braided the tail cap spring, bulb turret spring and the switch internal spring (got the whole circuit down to 0.3 Ohm). Lashings of De-Oxit and brass cleaning stick to remove contact tarnish. I then soldered a thin brass washer to the positive of both batteries using a 100 Watt soldering iron to allow them to make contact (they are flat top). I needed to peel off the security sticker to allow the cells to fit the tube.

On powering up I got a powerful white light that really impressed. I now have a Mag C bulb tower on order to get the heat from the bulb holder to the body to prevent melting.

So, does this sound a decent setup? Anything else I could do? What about sanding the bulb - worth doing?

I am very pleased with my light, but if I can improve it further I will.


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## bykfixer (Nov 3, 2016)

Nothing to contribute advice wise as I bought a vintage one pre-built.

But can say HOLY MACKERAL those thing are great.
Not knowing just how freely all those extra helpers allow it to suck the juice from batteries... I started out using CR123's until the rechargeables arrived. 

They got hot quickly... scary hot scary quickly.
Needless to say I put it away until some high output batteries arrived.




The Delrin sleeve keeps these nice n snug.


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