# Nichia high-CRI Zebralight mod? Anyone done it?



## Wacki (Sep 15, 2012)

Nichia high-CRI Zebralight mod? Anyone done it?


----------



## Romanko (Sep 15, 2012)

As far as I know it is impossible to dissasamble zebralights.


----------



## Mooreshire (Sep 18, 2012)

Romanko said:


> As far as I know it is impossible to dissasamble zebralights.



I _believe _you might be able to open up a ZL using a jewelers tool (or set of tools) made for opening waterproof watch cases. The main device I _think _you'd need is sometimes called a Jaxa Wrench, and while you can get them for $25 I've heard that you shouldn't pay less than $80 if you want a quality one. The wrench grips even the faintest (inner or outer) edge of something from three or more angles/sides so you can get enough grip to unscrew it. I _think _you'd first need to try and grab and unscrew the stainless bezel that holds the lens and reflector in place, or perhaps the bezel around the switch. I also believe that opening it would only be the first difficulty - I'm sure all the components are mounted in place quite securely and far from accessible even with the case opened up.

I'm eager to see a ZL disassembled and/or modded, but don't have the courage to try cracking mine open. Someone do it and post photos!


----------



## stp (Sep 18, 2012)

I may be wrong but I believe that the stainless bezels are not screwed in but press fitted.


----------



## Mooreshire (Sep 18, 2012)

stp said:


> I may be wrong but I believe that the stainless bezels are not screwed in but press fitted.



If true, that would make things quite a bit harder indeed.


----------



## stp (Sep 18, 2012)

Yep. I was really thinking about it because I would like to have that stainless bezel threaded. Because the ring would need to be replaced anyway I was thinking about milling it out in few places around the ring with very small bit on a press drill and prying the rest of the ring out. But the glass is very close, the rings curvature will not help you - you need to have everything very rigid to not slip from that ring. I also still use my ZL and don't have access to tools so all in all I decided to wait for now  
I just hope that sooner or later ZL will hear us, look at what Spark is doing and offer some way to mount accessories to the head.


----------



## Bolster (Sep 18, 2012)

I'd gotten the idea that ZLs were press-fit and epoxy throughout. Very difficult to disassemble. 

STP, I'm sure you know that drill presses aren't designed for side loads, so milling with them isn't good for the machine. Depending, you can add runout to your press that way pretty easily. I own an actual mill, and I'd still not try it, because the bezel is stainless steel, and I haven't the high-end cutters for it. You'd very likely sacrifice both the ring and the lens, and probably have to face off the aluminum, too. Doable? Yes, by a talented machinist. Worth it? Not for one. UNLESS: You made this a cottage industry, and were able to offer a "threaded bezel" package for ZLs, and were willing to find people who'd pay more than the light costs for the upgrade.

I've thought about a threaded bezel too, and I think the easiest way to get that is to epoxy on a female threaded ring, that would sit to the outside of the existing SS bezel. That would still leave you with the challenge of making your own filters. At this point the Sparks become very attractive, since they come with threaded bezels already.


----------



## stp (Sep 18, 2012)

Bolster said:


> STP, I'm sure you know that drill presses aren't designed for side loads, so milling with them isn't good for the machine. Depending, you can add runout to your press that way pretty easily. I own an actual mill, and I'd still not try it, because the bezel is stainless steel, and I haven't the high-end cutters for it. You'd very likely sacrifice both the ring and the lens, and probably have to face off the aluminum, too. Doable? Yes, by a talented machinist. Worth it? Not for one. UNLESS: You made this a cottage industry, and were able to offer a "threaded bezel" package for ZLs, and were willing to find people who'd pay more than the light costs for the upgrade.
> 
> I've thought about a threaded bezel too, and I think the easiest way to get that is to epoxy on a female threaded ring, that would sit to the outside of the existing SS bezel. That would still leave you with the challenge of making your own filters. At this point the Sparks become very attractive, since they come with threaded bezels already.



I know about side loads but I'm not machinist and I don't own/had to pay for a drill press so probably I'm looking at it with lots of ignorance but...I was thinking about doing it for myself so just one ZL, doing it with machinist two way vise very slowly and not milling entire ring around but just in few places around it with small diamond bit just enough to separate the ring into few pieces with prybar. As I said I don't have experience so I don't know if it is doable and how risky for the press-drill it would be.

Yes epoxy is the easiest way but it's my EDC so I would prefer it to stay streamlined and pleasant visually ;-) that can be hard with epoxy. 
Another possible solution could be drilling few small holes around bezel end epoxying cylinder shaped neodymium magnets. But I'm not even sure if magnets that small (1-2 mm in diameter) are available.

I prefer the form factor of the ZL and its interface over current Spark models so this is not solution for me.


----------



## rojos (Sep 18, 2012)

Somebody try it and let us know.


----------



## Match (Nov 16, 2012)

rojos said:


> Somebody try it and let us know.



Ok.

H51 disassembled:







H51 with new nichia219 reflowed and awaiting final reassembly:






Fully assembled H51 but now with more CRI goodness (bad phone photo, the lens/reflector are not cloudy):






Please disregard the shape of my poor H51. It saw a lot of rough use before the swap, and none of that damage was caused by the mod.

A few things to note:
- The bezel is press fit.
- The stock emitter pcb is screwed down to the head. 
- The reflector is also press fit, but comes out easily enough with a few gentle taps.
- The lens dimensions are 18mm x 1mm
- The nichia219 was reflowed onto the stock pcb.

As with most xpg to nichia mods, the hotspot is now slightly more diffuse - which most may find that to be a good thing. Output is less and of course the color rendition and tint speak for themselves.


----------



## Mooreshire (Nov 16, 2012)

Match wins!

Great job on the mod.


----------



## badtziscool (Nov 16, 2012)

VERY nice Match! Thanks for that. I've always wondered how to take the bezel off. Let the conversion begin!


----------



## jorn (Nov 16, 2012)

Nice job!
Easy to buy one with a hi cri  I can't see the difference between the 219 and the rebel anyway. 
Zebra always say they mount the led on a one pice body for better heatsinking. How is it mounted? On top of a "tower" from the back wall?


----------



## rojos (Nov 16, 2012)

Match said:


> Ok.
> 
> H51 disassembled



Match gets a standing ovation from me for having the balls to even try this. 

Bravo!



Match said:


> A few things to note:
> - The bezel is press fit.
> - The stock emitter pcb is screwed down to the head.
> - The reflector is also press fit, but comes out easily enough with a few gentle taps.
> - The lens dimensions are 18mm x 1mm



After seeing how the pieces fit together, I won't be buying any more Zebralights until they improve the bezel design. It's obvious now why they have leakage problems. All they would need to do is thread that stupid bezel and their reliability problems would be solved. And it would finally give owners the ability to easily swap emitters, swap lenses, swap switches... basically, perform self repair without having to go through Zebralight's slow-as-molasses customer service.

Is there a legit engineering reason why they couldn't just beef up the lens and switch openings a little and add threads? That would solve so many problems for them.


----------



## dj:litestick (Nov 17, 2012)

Very nice job on the press fit Match. There was a member on here awhile back who replaced the lens on a Zebralight and said it was press fit. But your sir get the cake. Thanks for the pics and description.


----------



## lampeDépêche (Dec 2, 2012)

Great job, Match!

But wait--how exactly *did* you get the bezel out without scarring it? 

That's the really important question, to my mind!


----------



## tobrien (Dec 9, 2012)

lampeDépêche said:


> Great job, Match!
> 
> But wait--how exactly *did* you get the bezel out without scarring it?
> 
> That's the really important question, to my mind!


I'd love to know too


----------



## DIΩDΣ (Dec 20, 2012)

Maybe he did just rip it out... and got a replacement bezel to put it back together with? Nothing so special about that.


----------



## stp (Dec 20, 2012)

DIΩDΣ;4093655 said:


> Maybe he did just rip it out... and got a replacement bezel to put it back together with? Nothing so special about that.



If you will zoom the last picture you should see two things:
-the bezel have some very small nicks/dents in two places so it isn't new.
-There are 2 bigger dents on the flashlight body near the bezel.

He also pointed lens dimension so I'm guessing that he broke the original glass and used something to lever the bezel out (and doing it he did the damage to the ZL body on the opposite side of the place where he put something under bezel because he used that place as a point of leverage)
After breaking the glass he probably removed the rubber o-ring first. Maybe even the reflector but I doubt that it's small enough to remove it trough the bezel. Anyway it should give enough space under the bezel to push it out.


----------



## Bolster (Dec 20, 2012)

Would it be easier to disassemble if it spent some time in the freezer first? Then a dental pick between the bezel and the lens to pry the bezel up, working around in a circle?


----------



## PBear (Dec 30, 2012)

If a freezer would be useful, how about placing dry ice in the bezel? Would it be feasible?


----------



## eh4 (Dec 30, 2012)

PBear said:


> If a freezer would be useful, how about placing dry ice in the bezel? Would it be feasible?



That would be a lot more effective than freezing the whole light, whether it worked or not.
I'd cut a circle of thick paper or something to cover the lens though, anything that insulates a bit to break the thermal path and hopefully not break the glass.


----------



## moses (Jan 2, 2013)

Why the Nichia?

Zebralight already has some 85CRI lights. Is the Nichia much higher CRI?

Thanks,
Mo


----------



## kaichu dento (Jan 2, 2013)

Nichia has really dialed their phosphor balance to give a sense of color neutrality that has eluded other makers, and this goes for their 119/219 emitters regardless of whether the output is on the warmer side or cooler side of the CCT scale. When an LED is rated as being hCRI, that's only one part of the equation, and while generally an improvement over what we had available up until recently, had been a largely incomplete achievement before Nichia applied their alchemy and brought us what we'd been hoping for all along.


----------



## moozooh (Jan 2, 2013)

That being said, the downside is that the Nichia is very inefficient above 3-4 watts, and has very high forward voltage that would be best served with 3x or 4xAA setup, definitely not 1xAA. I was a fan of the idea previously, but these days I'd probably go with Luxeon T instead: >300 LED lumen at 3 W, 85 CRI, whereas you'd be lucky to get 160 lm in the same setup with the 219. Basically, if you're going outside with an H51 modded this way, grab a pack of spare eneloops with you.

I'd love to have the 219 in some kind of a ceiling fixture or a desklamp, still.


----------



## kaichu dento (Jan 2, 2013)

We all choose what priorities we have and for me the quality of light is worth a drop in efficiency, especially since I can generally go for a couple weeks on a charge, and at least get through the day when using my single cell lights for longer periods of time.

While there's a notable difference between 160 and 300 lumens, it's not as much as the numbers on paper would suggest it is, and even though I'd love to have the higher quantity of lumens, I'll go with the greater perceived quality of lumens which have proven themselves for the last year to be more than adequate.


----------



## moozooh (Jan 2, 2013)

It's not that the question is "300 vs. 160", rather that the Nichia will eat through AAs like there's no tomorrow, _and_ have lower brightness ceiling. Not a preferred trade-off for every circumstance, to say the least.

Again, we're talking H51, a 1xAA lamp. If this were SC60 or something like that, it would fare much better, but 7 extra points of CRI won't help if you're just not putting enough light on an object; there's been a discussion regarding color rendition where it was posited that light of higher intensity but nominally worse CRI could deliver a similar or better color reproduction by the virtue of engaging with a higher amount of color-sensitive cells (and other optical effects that become pronounced at higher levels of illumination).


----------



## kaichu dento (Jan 3, 2013)

You're in the wrong thread and the question has nothing to do with your preferences - it has to do with finding out if anyone has been able to mod a Zebralight to one of today's most highly favored emitters. 

All of your points are valid, for you, but again, this thread is not about getting off on a tangent of which emitter you like better than the one the OP is interested in.


----------



## moozooh (Jan 3, 2013)

I don't know if you've been tracking the context, but you're barking up the wrong tree. OP's question has been answered back in November; the discussion I'm partaking in pertains to moses's question from yesterday, "why the Nichia?" What such a mod would entail is, in this sense, not at all a tangent: it trades some things for other, and we've yet to see solid measurements and back-to-back comparisons to let people figure out for themselves how worthy such a trade-off would be, especially compared to H51c which is closer to the Nichia in terms of both light quality and performance.


----------



## kaichu dento (Jan 3, 2013)

Still the same thread and I already answered the question about why so many of us like the Nichia - your objection comes in the form of a 'why not'. At any rate, many CPF'ers have been long known to choose quality of light over quantity.


----------



## abarth_1200 (Feb 6, 2015)

Match said:


> Ok.
> 
> H51 disassembled:
> 
> ...




Why havent you replied to your peers as to how you actually opened this up! been searching online for hours to find out how.

Sorry for the thread revival


----------



## moozooh (Feb 7, 2015)

I think all you needed to know was "bezel is press fit" and the dent seen in the lowermost photo. By my educated guess, he inserted a sharp tool between the body and the bezel, drove it in with a small hammer perhaps, and picked it off when the bezel became loose. Put everything back together using jaw vise or something.


----------



## Derek Dean (Feb 7, 2015)

Not sure if this will help, but it might get you going in the right direction:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?386203-Disassembling-Zebralight-w-o-damage


----------



## leggera16 (Jan 12, 2018)

stp said:


> I
> 
> Yes epoxy is the easiest way but it's my EDC so I would prefer it to stay streamlined and pleasant visually ;-) that can be hard with epoxy.
> Another possible solution could be drilling few small holes around bezel end epoxying cylinder shaped neodymium magnets. But I'm not even sure if magnets that small (1-2 mm in diameter) are available.
> ...



Im looking to make some magnetic diffusers utilising the steel ring on zebralights. Has no one done this or can you buy them somewhere? Might do a few with lenses to widen the beam for walking too. I did try to search but got weird results lol


----------



## lampeDépêche (Jan 12, 2018)

leggera16 said:


> Im looking to make some magnetic diffusers utilising the steel ring on zebralights. Has no one done this or can you buy them somewhere? Might do a few with lenses to widen the beam for walking too. I did try to search but got weird results lol



Sounds like a nice idea, but make sure that the ZL bezel is magnetic itself. I just tried on the three that I have with me (an SC600 Mk III, an H52w, and an H502w), and none of those bezels will hold a magnet. Many stainless steels are like this--they don't respond to magnets.

So you might need to replace the bezel, too.


----------



## The_Driver (Jan 12, 2018)

The LEDs of all current Zebralight lights sit on the driver pcb. The pcbs have electrical components on both sides (at least in the samller SC6x models). This makes removing just the LED rather difficult (vinhnguyen54 has done it on a SC6330 though by fixating the bottom side components with capton tape). In addition to this most current Zebralights have 6V or 12V emitters. Older models with a 3V LED had the XM-L2 which has a different footprint than the 3V Nichias. 

Of all the current lights only the new SC64c (which already has a Cree high-cri LED) can be modded with a 3V Nichia because it has a 3V XP-L2 LED. 
The Zebralight with XHP50(.2) LEDs can be modded with a Nichia 144A LED, although one first needs to finde out in what electrical configuration (6V or 12V) the XHP50 is used. The Nichia 144A has to be bought in the correct configuration (it only has two contacts instead of four). Only the 6V version is easy to get.


----------



## Nightvision23 (Jan 18, 2018)

I'd love to have one with this mod without a doubt


----------



## The_Driver (Jan 19, 2018)

I have a modded Armytek Prime C2 Pro (similar to Zebra SC62) modded with a Nichia 219B-V1 with the stock 3A driver. It now gets hot much, much faster and throttles down in a shorter amount of time. For most people I would reccomend going with the Nichia 219C as it is much more efficient.


----------



## leggera16 (Jan 21, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> Sounds like a nice idea, but make sure that the ZL bezel is magnetic itself. I just tried on the three that I have with me (an SC600 Mk III, an H52w, and an H502w), and none of those bezels will hold a magnet. Many stainless steels are like this--they don't respond to magnets.
> 
> So you might need to replace the bezel, too.



Ah ok it does look like that sort of steel that doesnt stick. Odd? Maybe I can add one ring to the light and one to the lenses. Got the sc600w XHP50.2 ordered so will decide which one to mod once its here (old one is mkii L2) . I just sometimes want the road lit from edge to edge and no spill blinding other walkers. Almost like the 10 dollar zoomies lol. Cheers


----------

