# XP-G R5



## old4570 (Oct 1, 2009)

Well went to cutter to get my XP-G R3 ..

And what should arrive , some XP-G R5's -  Got two R5's ....


So I could be the first one to own some R5's :devil:


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## ICUDoc (Oct 1, 2009)

Good job old4570. We look forward to you comments. What are they going into?


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## Greg G (Oct 1, 2009)

Great. So far all anyone has is charts. I'm looking forward to seeing some beamshots with different reflectors, and some lux readings as well.


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## old4570 (Oct 1, 2009)

I have a P60 drop in with a XP-E R2 in it ..

I will just swap out the Xp-E , and drop in the XP-G R3 and R5's

I will measure output and current ...

One of the R5's may stay in the p60 drop in , the R3 and R5 remaining ? One will go into my A20 EDC , the other possibly my L2micro [ Currently has XP-E R2 ]


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## qwertyydude (Oct 1, 2009)

How well do the XP-G's work with XR-E optics?


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## thegeek (Oct 1, 2009)

I'm quite curious on the tint of them. The binning that Cutter has covers everything from 5K-8.5K, which is making me a bit hesitant ordering anything.


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## old4570 (Oct 1, 2009)

qwertyydude said:


> How well do the XP-G's work with XR-E optics?



Mine is very nice ..


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## csshih (Oct 1, 2009)

old4570 said:


> So I could be the first one to own some R5's :devil:


nope! 47s had samples loooong before most people :devil:


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## old4570 (Oct 1, 2009)

Ok 

XP-G R3 

This driver 

Ok , Im using this driver in the pill , simply because it allows the LED to run at full power ... And thats the only thing that interests me ... OK 

So here we go :

the XP-G R3 drew some 1.65A measured at the tail [ 90% Efficient Driver ] or about 1.5A to the LED ... So as near as I can tell ..

Its pushing about 260Lumen OTF [ Not taking sag or anything into account ] [ Same Pill / Driver / reflector / body etc as XP-E R2 set up ] 
with a 18650 ...

Same set up with the XP-E R2 @ 1A = 200Lumen [ I own 3 XP-E R2's and none push more than 200Lumen OTF ] 
So not bad .. A nice performance increase ..


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## old4570 (Oct 1, 2009)

XP-G R5 

Im a little surprised , the first R5 tested draws a little over 2A ..

Turning the light on sees around 370Lumen but it quickly drops to 290 and slowly sags to 280 ... Looks like a lot of heat is going to go with this one , the pill warms up real fast 

The XP-G R3 was far more stable , and not nearly as warm .. :huh:

Hmmmm , one more to go ...


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## Greg G (Oct 2, 2009)

Keep it coming. I like it when people actually *dyno* an LED. :twothumbs


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)

Ok , instinct told me to buy more than one XP-G R5 ..

This second one runs 1.7A [ Measured at tail ] 

Starts of around 350Lumens , and eases of around ................................320 OTF ...... oo:
:rock: Genuine 300+ P60 Drop in ... [ well as so far as 60 seconds go ] 

Early days ! 

That first R5 seems to really rock , 2A + Golly Gee ! 
If I glue it down with thermal epoxy it might be more stable , will see - will see !
Now I need another pill + driver


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## znomit (Oct 2, 2009)

old4570 said:


> Now I need another pill + driver



And a camera!

Any pictures?


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)

znomit said:


> And a camera!
> 
> Any pictures?



Looks the same as a XP-E , but sure , some eye candy !


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)

Two XP-G R5's 

outside the pill is the 1st one that ran 2A+ / inside is the one that does 320 @ 1.53A [ 1.7A measured at the tail ]


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## icaruz (Oct 2, 2009)

care to post some beamshot? if possible with comparison with the R2..:thumbsup:


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## Greg G (Oct 2, 2009)

What meter do you have.....out of curiosity? 

I can't wait for a dealer in the States to have these. :twothumbs


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)

Just a cheap Light meter of Ebay , and 2 light boxes and some math .. Math was on the conservative side ... 

I put the pill in another body , and output increased ... 
I did have a KD driver , but thats the second dud driver KD has sent me ..
Geez , so I have no driver for a second pill .. 

Beamshots when it gets dark ...


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)

Ok , I did a second pill for the R5 that pulls 2A 

It now sits just a little over 300Lumen with a 18650 @ 2A+
BUTT !!! , with a CR123A @ 1.4A [ 1.26A to LED ] its pumping 310Lumen . 
So it looks like less = MORE ! 

This is what I thought ! To much energy = heat = less output .


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## Greg G (Oct 2, 2009)

What is the Vf you are seeing?

Thanks for the info,


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## PaulH (Oct 2, 2009)

I have some XP-G's on order from Cutter that I will replace some Q5 XR-E's with.

Do you know whether the XP-G's will be ok with the XR-E P60 reflectors? Or, do you know if it is possible to buy XP-G/XP-E specific reflectors - the only ones that I have seen from DX and KD come with the R2 pill for $10 each.

If you have some beam shots with smooth and OP reflectors, I'd love to see them!

Thanks,

Paul


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)

Cutter may have the specifics for the LED's posted , I haven't even checked yet myself .. 

Ok , the 2 R5's are in P60 pills , one is a XR-E pill and it works just fine , the other is in a XP-E pill , which you can buy from KD as a empty host .

And the R3 went into my A20 ...

Let me sort through the beamshots ...


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## Gryloc (Oct 2, 2009)

Sigh, your results are great (thank you), but they do not give me much hope as I am not a P60 flashlight owner. The P60 pill is limited on heatsinking compared to a permanent application, and different driver and battery combos deliver sometimes an unknown exact current to the emitter (some drivers act differently depending on input voltage, and some batteries sag a bit under load). Therefore, it seems like performance is not totally consistent (batteries drain and things heat up in a short period of time, plus all of those variables mentioned before in the mix). 

With a permanent mount in a larger flashlight (with more metal to dissipate heat), and with maybe larger batteries that handle current better, I bet that the output would be immense at 2A of current at the emitter. From my estimates (here), I was hoping that you would see well over 300 lumens in a more constant fashion.

BTW, how would you gauge the tint (Temp in K -CCT) and the quality of light compared to your more "really-white" cool white emitters?

Thanks for your efforts (please do not think that I am trying to offend). Unfortunately, it is sometimes physically difficult to squeeze out the max performance out of this lil monster emitter due to heatsinking and battery limitations, at least at those currents in the P60. Due to higher efficiencies, at least you will see a nice boost in performance with the beastly XP-G R5 compared to driving the ol R2 XP-E at the same current. This is still a great emitter to use in P60 drop-ins and smaller hosts (like fenix-sized lights). Well, good luck with your testing and I cannot wait to see the beamshots! :candle:

-Tony


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## PaulH (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks for your reply. I have been through KD's site, and can't find the empty module for the XP-E - just the complete module with the R2 in it.

Do you have a link for the reflectors only please?

Cheers.


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## ICUDoc (Oct 2, 2009)

FAST work on the setup and data collection old4570- thanks!


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)




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## icaruz (Oct 2, 2009)

Is it me or do i see that R2 still out throw the R5, although more side spill from the new emitter..


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)

Gryloc said:


> Sigh, your results are great (thank you), but they do not give me much hope as I am not a P60 flashlight owner. The P60 pill is limited on heatsinking compared to a permanent application, and different driver and battery combos deliver sometimes an unknown exact current to the emitter (some drivers act differently depending on input voltage, and some batteries sag a bit under load). Therefore, it seems like performance is not totally consistent (batteries drain and things heat up in a short period of time, plus all of those variables mentioned before in the mix).
> 
> With a permanent mount in a larger flashlight (with more metal to dissipate heat), and with maybe larger batteries that handle current better, I bet that the output would be immense at 2A of current at the emitter. From my estimates (here), I was hoping that you would see well over 300 lumens in a more constant fashion.
> 
> ...



Actually , yes and no , there is always some sag as things warm up ..
Also keep in mind these were not glued in but simply held in place by the reflector with some thermal goo under the cree .

Gluing the cree in with thermal epoxy will help lots ...

Even the R3 is hitting 300Lumen in the A20 and then slowly drops down to 280+ as things warm up ..

Only downside , XR-E still throws better ... 

I still need to glue one of the XP-G's [ No2 ] , I expect less sag after gluing it , thats what happened with the other R5 [ 1st one ] [ Thermal epoxy ] 

I might buy another XP-G R5 and put it in my 6D MAg , its currently SSC P4 .


Pill Assembly  From KD !


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## ab1ht (Oct 2, 2009)

Can someone please point me to a data sheet for this? I'm finding the Cree website difficult to navigate.

Thanks.


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## jirik_cz (Oct 2, 2009)

ab1ht said:


> Can someone please point me to a data sheet for this? I'm finding the Cree website difficult to navigate.
> 
> Thanks.



cree XP-G site is here http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_xpg.asp


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## CampingLED (Oct 2, 2009)

icaruz said:


> Is it me or do i see that R2 still out throw the R5, although more side spill from the new emitter..


 
My fear is confirmed, the XP-G will probably need its own reflectors and optics designed.


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## ab1ht (Oct 2, 2009)

@jirik_cz, thank you for the link.

@all, forgive my newbie ignorance, but is 130Lm really that much of an increase from the 100Lm of the XR-E? Yes, 30%, I realize this. But in terms of functionality, what does this really mean?

What can you do now with 130Lm that you couldn't with 100Lm?


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## PaulH (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks for the reflector link old4570! I've looked through KD's site several times over the last couple of weeks and didn't find it.

PH


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## jirik_cz (Oct 2, 2009)

ab1ht said:


> @jirik_cz, thank you for the link.
> 
> @all, forgive my newbie ignorance, but is 130Lm really that much of an increase from the 100Lm of the XR-E? Yes, 30%, I realize this. But in terms of functionality, what does this really mean?
> 
> What can you do now with 130Lm that you couldn't with 100Lm?



The difference gets bigger with higher currents. 

Or you can stay at 100lm and use less power to drive the led = longer runtime


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## Black Rose (Oct 2, 2009)

old4570 said:


> If I glue it down with thermal epoxy it might be more stable , will see - will see !
> Now I need another pill + driver


What if you used something like Arctic Silver Ceramique? 
It's not epoxy but helps greatly with thermal issues.

I plan on using that on my P60 pills if DX ever ships them


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## yellow (Oct 2, 2009)

> Or you can stay at 100lm and use less power to drive the led = longer runtime


this,
or 300 lumen at 1A (instead of 200)
... at least thats what I hope for


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## Greg G (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks old4570. Those beamshots are exactly what I was wanting. The XP-G does appear to have more spill than the XR-E, which is a good thing. The throw looks to be less though.

I'm wanting to build a couple of multi-emitter [email protected] with McR17's or 19's. I think for now I'll stick with an R2 bin XR-E or XP-E because those lights are already floody and I want the keep the hotspot tight as possible. 

Thanks!!!!

P.S. You would happen to have a A9 or DBS you could try on in would you? Heh Heh.


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## outersquare (Oct 2, 2009)

heh, i guess my E2DL will live a useful life a little longer


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## Moddoo (Oct 2, 2009)

Greg G said:


> P.S. You would happen to have a A9 or DBS you could try on in would you? Heh Heh.



I'll be sticking one in my A9 tomorrow evening...

how much current to use...?

beamshots will follow (if this rain/drizzle will ever cease)


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## old4570 (Oct 2, 2009)

Thermal Epoxy has curred , and the LED's are more stable now / less sag from heat ... 

The R3 in my A20 is holding 280Lumen on high .. A gain of some 70 Lumen over the Q5 ..


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## dudu84 (Oct 3, 2009)

Could you capture the beamshot of the xp-g A20 on white wall? 
I'd love to see how well the optics of xr-e works on xp-g


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## old4570 (Oct 3, 2009)

Warm tint / or Blue ? seems a little blue-ish


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## dudu84 (Oct 3, 2009)

Thanks for the photo, old4570 :thumbsup: There is no defined hotspot it seems.
Just roughly, how far is the distance to the wall?
The grass has good color :]


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## Justin Case (Oct 3, 2009)

old4570 said:


> Ok
> 
> XP-G R3
> 
> ...



Sorry to rain on your parade, but I don't understand your data or your claim of a 90% efficient driver. The KD product description, to the extent it is reliable, says that the driver you are using is a direct drive PWM controller. So where are you getting your 90% efficiency figure from? Your data comparing an XP-G R5 driven by one 18650 (2A+ tail current) vs driving the same LED with one CR123A (1.4A tail current) looks much more like direct drive than any sort of regulated driver behavior.

When you report the current to the LED, are you actually measuring this or just calculating it by taking 90% of the tail current measurement? Looks like the latter to me. Actual If and Vf data would be a lot more reliable and enlightening.

Looks to me that you are simply direct driving your various XP-G samples, and overdriving them at that since the max drive current from the XP-E datasheet is 1A.


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## old4570 (Oct 3, 2009)

dudu84 said:


> Thanks for the photo, old4570 :thumbsup: There is no defined hotspot it seems.
> Just roughly, how far is the distance to the wall?
> The grass has good color :]



Around 30 Feet ... There is a hotspot @ 3 feet , but at 30 feet it has greatly expanded ..


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## Wilkerson Brasil (Oct 3, 2009)

Moddoo said:


> I'll be sticking one in my A9 tomorrow evening...
> 
> how much current to use...?
> 
> beamshots will follow (if this rain/drizzle will ever cease)




Depending on your results I´ll update my Raidfire Spear. Although, I don´t want to lose it´s thrower characteristic. Spear´s driver current is 1,2A at tailcap. I hope R5 can handle it.

Edit: Beamshots wanted


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## degarb (Oct 3, 2009)

ab1ht said:


> What can you do now with 130Lm that you couldn't with 100Lm?



My musings and why this led interests me...

http://akronedge.info/2009-ideal-lumen-theory.html


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## Moddoo (Oct 4, 2009)

I hope this is a decent place to add this info...

I swapped the XPG into the Tiablo A9.

The smooth reflector still creates a nice defined hotspot, but with a lot of extra spill compared to the XRE.

The Aspheric beam does not seem as intense as before.
I assume the 125 degree viewing angle of the XPG is to blame.

The beamshots are not worth sharing. full moon and a bit of fog tonight.


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## dudu84 (Oct 4, 2009)

Moddoo said:


> The beamshots are not worth sharing. full moon and a bit of fog tonight.



We wouldn't mind a few indoor beamshots in the mean time


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## CampingLED (Oct 4, 2009)

Moddoo said:


> The Aspheric beam does not seem as intense as before.
> I assume the 125 degree viewing angle of the XPG is to blame.


 
I think it is the increased die size.


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## mudman cj (Oct 4, 2009)

I think you are both right. The increased die size and increased emission angle are both hurting throw with an aspheric lens.


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## qwertyydude (Oct 4, 2009)

Greater emission angle should make for better throw when put into a proper reflector though.


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## Greg G (Oct 4, 2009)

Moddoo said:


> I hope this is a decent place to add this info...
> 
> I swapped the XPG into the Tiablo A9.
> 
> ...




How would you rate the intensity of the hotspot now compared to stock?

Thanks,

Greg


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## Moddoo (Oct 4, 2009)

Greg G said:


> How would you rate the intensity of the hotspot now compared to stock?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Greg



My A9 has not been stock for a while now.

I was running the XPG at about 2A last night, because that was the driver I had installed with the XRE lately.

I could do some comparisons sometime soon.
I'll stick a 1.4A driver and swap emitters.

Too busy this week though I'm sure.


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