# indexable end mills



## themayor (Feb 29, 2012)

Realistically how much should i be spending on indexable end mill. For just the home shop what what are the disadvantages of the cheaper one compared to the better know names?


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## precisionworks (Feb 29, 2012)

> how much should i be spending on indexable end mill.


As you probably know they start around $50 & go well over $500.

Look for:

Either an integral R-8 shank or a straight shank 3/4" or smaller (to fit into an R-8 collet).

Decide on the diameter. 2.5" (63.5mm) is as large as you want to run on any R-8 spindle, doesn't matter if it's a 1500# Bridgeport or a 500# bench top mill. 

Pick an insert shape that is commonly found on eBay. Remember this point as using common inserts will save you more money than you can imagine.

Come up with a reasonable budget. $100 is a good minimum unless you find an eBay item & all the money in your bank account is a good maximum :devil:

Some candidates:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Indexable-E...117?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab4a8a52d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTERSTATE-...4?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1c1441bb0e (great to deal with)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Indexable-E...816?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab4a84a28

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KORLOY-Inde...331?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c244a5463


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2012)

Barry, I love it when you post specific examples as in your above post of ebay items. That is really helpful!! Thank you sincerely for taking the time from your limited, income producing time to do this.


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## precisionworks (Mar 1, 2012)

BVH said:


> Barry, I love it when you post specific examples as in your above post of ebay items. That is really helpful!! Thank you sincerely for taking the time from your limited, income producing time to do this.


 you are certainly welcome. I only looked through about 100 listings to find the ones posted. It seems like there were 800 or 900 total 

We were all new at 1 time & It is disheartening To spend a good chunk of money and find out you bought the wrong tool

( Sent from my android device which has no clue about punctuation or capitalization)


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## themayor (Mar 1, 2012)

Thanks for the help barry could you give me a little me info on what to search for i need a 1in one. SO i would look for something like one that takes a Like a apkt insert and is either r8 or in my case up to 1in shanks cause i have er40 collet set. But after that what am i looking for so i know it quality ? You said 100 minimum but some of the like you posted were under 100 i guess what I'm asking are what brands i should be looking for


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## wquiles (Mar 1, 2012)

themayor said:


> Thanks for the help barry could you give me a little me info on what to search for i need a 1in one. SO i would look for something like one that takes a Like a apkt insert and is either r8 or in my case up to 1in shanks cause i have er40 collet set. But after that what am i looking for so i know it quality ? You said 100 minimum but some of the like you posted were under 100 i guess what I'm asking are what brands i should be looking for



I have been a little bit tied up today, but I will post some actual examples of the indexable mills that I got (as always following Barry's advice) and that inserts I got for them. I have one larger one at 2.5", one at something like 1.5", one at 1", and 2-3 more that are less than an inch.

I would not get too hang up on the price - as long as you buy brand-name stuff, buying cheap (say from Ebay) is the way to go, however, you need to be patient if you want find a good deal - it sometimes takes me several weeks while I search/bid on the right one. The other place I get mine are from the specials that Enco, MSC, Travers, etc. - they often have over-stock items, or items being liquidated, which present an ideal time to get that one "special" end mill you have been looking (lusting?) for 

Will


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## precisionworks (Mar 1, 2012)

> 100 minimum but some of the like you posted were under 100 i guess what I'm asking are what brands i should be looking for


The four from eBay are nice quality.

First is an APT (Michigan Drill) Tri-Dex (USA). Second is Dorian, as nice as you'll find anywhere for $175. Third another APT, 1.25" diameter & about $100 retail. The last one is the "best buy" - Korloy Alpha, a seriously bad tool. Enjoy the show.


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## themayor (Mar 1, 2012)

I think i got you now. Look for a mill that lists for over 100 as far as quality goes then check ebay for good deals on said end mills


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## wquiles (Mar 3, 2012)

OK, sorry for the delay. Here are the indexable end mills that I use ...

1) My workhorse cutter in steel. This is a Bison 1" cutter, that uses APKT 1604 inserts:










Here are the inserts:






2) These two are M100 brand, one a 1" the other 0.75". They use the smaller APKT 1003 inserts. The one on top has Aluminum-specific inserts, the one in the bottom inserts for steel:









Here are the inserts:






3) This Iscar is a 1.5" dia cutter, which uses 6x of the APKT 1003 inserts - right now has the inserts for steel:














4) The last one is a GMT big 3" cutter, on a Bison holder (note that in theory my mill should use no more than 2" cutters), but that works great for me since I only use it on Aluminum (Barry can testify that I like "bending" the rules a little!):













Here are the inserts:






I of course have several Carbide mills that I use on steel, and Aluminum, but since you asked for indexable end mills, here you go. I hope this helps 

Will


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## precisionworks (Mar 3, 2012)

Like wquiles I have a number of R8 face mills that use the AP** insert. Some of the inserts are very tough & do well on interrupted cuts, others are more delicate but quite free cutting. Tons on eBay.






The 45° lead angle on the tool + about 20° more on the high pos insert reduce the cutting forces to almost nothing. The high shear face mills are a joy to use for finishing but the unsupported cutting edge means that this is not a roughing tool. 

Look around & you'll run across more indexable end mills & face mills than you can use. Just make sure the insert is commonly available ... unlike the Seco face mill that was cheap on eBay until I found out that each of the four inserts cost $30. And only Seco made them  Back on eBay it went.


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## themayor (Mar 3, 2012)

thanks for the pics and all the help


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## themayor (Mar 10, 2012)

thanks again for the advise got to use one of the 1in alpha mills i got on 4140 today perfect finish


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## precisionworks (Mar 11, 2012)

themayor said:


> thanks again for the advise got to use one of the 1in alpha mills i got on 4140 today perfect finish



:thumbsup:

The Korloy Alpha is a very nice tool.


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## choffman (Jul 21, 2012)

Other than the fact that they are out of business, any opinions on this brand of indexable mill?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350510502465?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648


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## precisionworks (Jul 22, 2012)

IIRC only Valenite makes that particular insert. They designed it for their proprietary Centre-Dex end mills. Should be a nice insert for running on a small mill but the inserts can be pricey.

http://www.rex-supply.com/Catalog_pdf/REXSUPPLY/REX2009CATALOG/P0374.pdf


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## wquiles (Jul 22, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> They designed it for their proprietary Centre-Dex end mills.



+1

One of the "tricks" I have learned is to start with the inserts first, then find a tool that uses them.

So start with the inserts that are very common, and plentiful on Ebay. Like for example APCT inserts. LOTS of companies make them in various sizes, types, made for Al, steel, etc..

Will


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## will (Jul 23, 2012)

Time for a little learning on my part. 

What is an 'indexable end mill' ? The cutters shown here look to be end mills with replaceable carbide inserts. I did find one type that allows the bottom to be angled to different settings. Are they indexable because you can get different angles on the inserts?

Way back when I worked in a machine shop we would use fly cutters to surface aluminum parts. 

I do woodworking now and these remind me of router bits, the exception being the cutting edge is replaceable and the tool itself is stronger. 

I did try to find information on the net, unfortunately, most sites just refer to the tool itself and no explanation as to what it is.


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## precisionworks (Jul 23, 2012)

> Are they indexable because you can get different angles on the inserts?


When the cutting edge is worn down it stops cutting & starts rubbing - so the insert is indexed to a fresh edge. Same goes for lathe tooling.


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## will (Jul 23, 2012)

Thank you - a nice simple answer.

( funny story about using a fly cutter. The owner of the small shop I worked at had his small boat stored on the side of the shop, upside down. He covered it with a plastic sheet to keep it clean. About 10 feet away was one of the Bridgeport Milling machines. We all failed to realize that the chips coming off a fly cutter were pretty hot, hot enough to melt through the plastic sheet and fuse to the bottom of the wood boat. )


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## precisionworks (Jul 25, 2012)

I frequently visit the PM Forum called Tooling, Parts & Accessories For Sale or Wanted. Should have skipped that this morning as Curt from Lathe Inserts just listed a Korloy Alpha mill including 20 inserts. Cost is $8/insert ($160 total) so the tool is free 






The Alpha is a great performer in a small mill. Shank is 1" so you'll need an ER-40 collet chuck to run something like this in an R-8 machine. Inserts are PVD coated (nano coat) so they should work well in alloy steels, stainless or Ti.

IMO the most interesting feature of this tool/insert combination is that Korloy recommends a huge axial depth of cut - up to half of cutter diameter. That means this 1" diameter tool can start a cut with .500" axial depth of cut. They also recommend combining this with a small radial DOC.


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## unterhausen (Aug 11, 2012)

good thread. I want to get some indexable tooling for my mill, but it would help if I got it running


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## choffman (Aug 12, 2012)

guys,

Thanks for the advice and insight on the inserts. You definitely saved me hassle and $$$. I passed on all of the indexable mills I was getting ready to pop on and did some more reading. I bought a 2" IEM from CDCO a few years ago and used it for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. I was really impressed with the finish I was able to achieve using my Hf/Seig X3 mill. I'd post a pic but I took it with my cell phone, and it just doesn't do it justice. 

Anyway, I've decided to go with, for the time being, some APT sets EMM500 & EM34. they use TPG inserts and match what the CDCO IEMs use.
http://www.toolneeds.com/index.php?option=com_joomdoc&task=doc_download&gid=15&Itemid=14
Now I just need to fin a cheap source for both mill and holders. 

Thanks again for the quick responses and insert insight.

Craig


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## themayor (Oct 14, 2012)

Has anyone had any luck with 1/2 indexable for aluminum ?


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## precisionworks (Oct 15, 2012)

themayor said:


> Has anyone had any luck with 1/2 indexable for aluminum ?


Most of the smaller indexable tools will work well on aluminum IF you run the high shear-polished face aluminum inserts. Easy enough to find tools as small as 5/8" with 5/8" shank, 3/4" with 3/4" shank & sometimes 1" with 3/4" shank. 

The 5/8" tools are 2-flute (two inserts). Dropping the tool size down to 1/2" really limits what inserts will fit. Quite a few small tools run triangles, rounds & squares. AFAIK there's little or no availability of aluminum specific high shear-polished face inserts in 1/2" tools. 

Tyson makes nice tooling in smaller sizes. Inserts look like APKT but are called BDGT (go figure): http://www.tysontool.com/millcat-m6800.pdf

Widia, Ingersoll, etc. make similar sized indexable tools.


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