# Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow UPDATE



## ConfederateScott (Nov 25, 2012)

I went to a gunshow today and one of the vendors had a table full of knock-off Surefire flashlights for sale. Upon walking up to the table I was stunned to see the prices which were less than half price for new Surefires. But when I picked one up I felt the edges were sharp on the tailcap fins of the E2D and the clicky was a reverse clicky. I took the tailcap off and the head off and looked more closely. Then I glanced up at the vendor and told him the light was not a genuine Surefire. He readily said, "Yeah, those are clones". I looked at a few more and walked on. The same vendor was selling counterfeit Eotech rifle sights which are very high dollar sights. He called them "clones" also. In my opinion the body of the E2D could have passed for a Surefire body. It was pretty well built and the SF logo looked authentic. The threads were kind of sharp though. The head and the tailcap had features that stood out as being fake to anyone who has held and used Surefires to any degree. I'm not sure the vendor would have been so forthcoming if I hadn't let him know that I knew. I've been a member here for a long time and I go to gunshows regularly but I've never read anything about counterfeits here (that I remember anyway) and I've never seen them before at gunshows. Are they common in other parts of the U.S.? Is this something new?


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## Quiksilver (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

why does everyone copy SureFire, but in discussions everyone says SureFire is a low lumen, high cost has-been.


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## THE_dAY (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

You should have taken some pictures as I've never seen a SF clone with the words "Surefire" actually on them.
It's usually some 'other' fire name.



Quiksilver said:


> why does everyone copy SureFire, but in discussions everyone says SureFire is a low lumen, high cost has-been.


When they copy SF, they copy the flashlight body designs. When people talk about low lumen it's about the internals i.e. LED, driver and such.

I'm not agreeing/disagreeing, just trying to clarify.


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## TMedina (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

Heh. For a number of reasons, I suppose: Surefire is the most recognized and trusted name of all the "tactical" flashlight brands.

The build quality and engineering of Surefire lights is also top notch, and is noted particularly for their nigh rock-solid reliability.

That said, Surefires are expensive - even for being made in America. They were also slow to embrace LED technology. And, because they spend so much time engineering and testing their products, they tend not to have the cutting edge in LED emitters.

I won't re-hash all the Surefire love/hate threads - but you see why knock-off copies would still sell, particularly at a show catering to Surefire's usual customer base.


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## tatasal (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

I'm not at all surprised of this report. You can even see copies of a copy, at least they put another name to it. But putting the name "Surefire" on it and passing it as one to the unsuspecting, that is already counterfeiting.
,


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## ConfederateScott (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

I regret not buying one now. The rules of the gunshow prohibited taking photographs inside. But I did keep a business card of the vendor selling them so I suppose I could call and mail order one. I've seen BlastFire and BrightFire knockoffs of Surefire but this was the first time I'd ever seen a complete counterfeit with the Surefire Logo just like a genuine SF light. I can see where someone could be fooled if they weren't a SF fan(atic). The price for their E2D clones was $44. Not exactly sure exactly what the SF E2D model would be with an LED head but these had LED heads that looked Surefire-ish. I think I may give them a call this week and try to order one so I can take some pics and show y'all


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## jamesmtl514 (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

I wouldn't bother. You'll be giving him money, your hard earned money for a counterfeit product you won't be happy with.
I say forward the info to Surefire and let them get their team of lawyers involved.


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## SimulatedZero (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



jamesmtl514 said:


> I wouldn't bother. You'll be giving him money, your hard earned money for a counterfeit product you won't be happy with.
> I say forward the info to Surefire and let them get their team of lawyers involved.



Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I think he wanted to have one as evidence for documentation more than for his collection. At least, that would be why I would buy one.


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## jh333233 (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

Erm by reporting counterfeits, do the reporter get a reward?


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## 880arm (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

Maybe you could send them an e-mail requesting pictures. If I were the vendor I wouldn't want to be sending photos of my counterfeit products all around the country but maybe you can tell him you're interested in buying one or two lights but aren't sure which one(s). Perhaps some photos would help jog your memory. :devil:


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## Cypher_Aod (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



jh333233 said:


> Erm by reporting counterfeits, do the reporter get a reward?



Nope, they do not


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## tobrien (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



880arm said:


> Maybe you could send them an e-mail requesting pictures. If I were the vendor I wouldn't want to be sending photos of my counterfeit products all around the country but maybe you can tell him you're interested in buying one or two lights but aren't sure which one(s). Perhaps some photos would help jog your memory. :devil:



^ this guy gets it.


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## silveradohd39 (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



ConfederateScott said:


> I went to a gunshow today and one of the vendors had a table full of knock-off Surefire flashlights for sale. Upon walking up to the table I was stunned to see the prices which were less than half price for new Surefires. But when I picked one up I felt the edges were sharp on the tailcap fins of the E2D and the clicky was a reverse clicky. I took the tailcap off and the head off and looked more closely. Then I glanced up at the vendor and told him the light was not a genuine Surefire. He readily said, "Yeah, those are clones". I looked at a few more and walked on. The same vendor was selling counterfeit Eotech rifle sights which are very high dollar sights. He called them "clones" also. In my opinion the body of the E2D could have passed for a Surefire body. It was pretty well built and the SF logo looked authentic. The threads were kind of sharp though. The head and the tailcap had features that stood out as being fake to anyone who has held and used Surefires to any degree. I'm not sure the vendor would have been so forthcoming if I hadn't let him know that I knew. I've been a member here for a long time and I go to gunshows regularly but I've never read anything about counterfeits here (that I remember anyway) and I've never seen them before at gunshows. Are they common in other parts of the U.S.? Is this something new?




Hello Confederatescott,
My name is Thomas and I am the PR specialist for SureFire. I saw this post and wanted to know if you could contact me so we can look into the "phony" SureFire's. [email protected]
Kind Regards,
Thomas


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## tobrien (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



silveradohd39 said:


> Hello Confederatescott,
> My name is Thomas and I am the PR specialist for SureFire. I saw this post and wanted to know if you could contact me so we can look into the "phony" SureFire's. [email protected]
> Kind Regards,
> Thomas


Nice! I guess sf still keeps tabs on CPF


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



silveradohd39 said:


> Hello Confederatescott,
> My name is Thomas and I am the PR specialist for SureFire. I saw this post and wanted to know if you could contact me so we can look into the "phony" SureFire's. [email protected]
> Kind Regards,
> Thomas



this guy ^
this guy right here


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## ConfederateScott (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



silveradohd39 said:


> Hello Confederatescott,
> My name is Thomas and I am the PR specialist for SureFire. I saw this post and wanted to know if you could contact me so we can look into the "phony" SureFire's. [email protected]
> Kind Regards,
> Thomas



contacted


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## nfetterly (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



silveradohd39 said:


> Hello Confederatescott,
> My name is Thomas and I am the PR specialist for SureFire. I saw this post and wanted to know if you could contact me so we can look into the "phony" SureFire's. [email protected]
> Kind Regards,
> Thomas



Man..., first post........, I wouldn't reply until he had at least 10 posts

(said the person with about 10 surefires (modded))


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## enomosiki (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



nfetterly said:


> Man..., first post........, I wouldn't reply until he had at least 10 posts
> 
> (said the person with about 10 surefires (modded))



The poster did give a legit contact address, so it shouldn't be a problem.


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## TMedina (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

I think Nfetterly was being funny.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

Dang, that's crazy.


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## TMedina (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

To tell you the truth, I'm surprised we don't see more imitation knock-offs.

Which is likely a testimony to the efficiency of Surefire's staff.


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## CarpentryHero (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

I'm shocked, this is the first time I've ever heard of a clone that copied the name too. Good eye for catching it, that's crasazy oo:


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## Streamer (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

Crazy...gee ... Confederate, if you'd bought one, that woulda been a "one of a kind" for sure..Great Show&Tell


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## ABTOMAT (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



CarpentryHero said:


> I'm shocked, this is the first time I've ever heard of a clone that copied the name too. Good eye for catching it, that's crasazy oo:



This has happened in the past. Bad U2 copies made the rounds a few years ago.


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## ConfederateScott (Dec 3, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

UPDATE Dec.2, 2012: I emailed back and forth with several Surefire people about the counterfeits. One of the persons was a Surefire brand security guy. I was able to provide them the name of the vendor and tell them when the next gunshow will be in the area. They didn't tell me how they would proceed but they took it very seriously. Today I received a box via UPS from Surfire and it contained a very large Surefire logo red decal, a velcro backed Sureifre Logo patch and one of the green colored low profile Surefire ball caps. Man, I LOVE those caps and wore my last one until it looked like rags. I've been wanting another one. Thomas at Surefire customer relations hooked me up. He was very appreciative of me mentioning it on here and for taking more time with him and their security guy. He also gave me a coupon good for 40%off up to $1,000 worth of Surefire merchandise excluding batteries. Now that Invictus and lockblade knife I've been wanting are calling my name and I just might have to place an order soon. I just wanted to tell everybody that my old favorite Surefire and customer relations guy Thomas really take care of loyal customers. In my opinion there is no better customer service in any industry, especially in flashlights and I've been saying that for years so it's not just because of the freebies. Though I do appreciate them very much. Thomas does read on this board. So THANKS THOMAS.


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## THE_dAY (Dec 3, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

That's awesome, glad you got rewarded!


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## Quiksilver (Dec 4, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

good stuff 

PR is important


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## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 4, 2012)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

Dang, Nice!!


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## eh4 (Dec 4, 2012)

Ha! 
Very, very cool.
I say save up and utilize as much of the full coupon value as is practical.


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## lensman (Dec 4, 2012)

Happy to see good behavior rewarded!

I should go looking for opportunities to be a whistleblower!


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## simplec6 (Dec 4, 2012)

WOW You got HOOKED UP!!!! Sweet man.


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## jamesmtl514 (Dec 4, 2012)

That's one reason i own countless surefire lights and products.


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## Lodogg2221 (Dec 4, 2012)

Man, Id be thinking awful hard about waiting until the UDR Dominator was released....but Id never make it. 
But if you are the patient type, thats gonna be one heck of a handheld light cannon.


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## BillSWPA (Dec 5, 2012)

Surefire recently took very good care of me in replacing a damaged light under warranty. I hope they nail the counterfeiters.


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## eg1977 (Dec 8, 2012)

There are several fake Surefire M951 weapon lights on ebay, serial number 187195


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## jhc37013 (Dec 9, 2012)

I just got to wonder which over seas manufacturer actually made it or what other brand lights may be made in the same facilities, especially since the OP said the body was well made and the printing on the logo was well done. To me it sounds like their not made on the same factory line as your everyday $2 flea market light, but then again maybe it is.

I buy plenty of over seas light and the ones I buy are well made and I'm proud of many of them, they are even my most prized EDC gear even ahead of my made in the US EDC blades.

Having said that I like to think the flashlight I buy are from manufactures that practice ethical business, I do sometimes wonder if some of these large umbrella corporations do it fact make some of these drones and I actually do business with them because I'm a fan and buy some of their company's (top brand) flashlights.

Maybe I'm way off but I would never buy another flashlight from a particular brand if I found out the manufacturer or parent company is involved with something like this but until I know for sure I can't discriminate.

Oh and I'm talking full on clones or severe and blatant rip off of very key designs, not things like patents that involve a side clicky or momentary on, call it hypocritical but it's a flashlight and some things are going to have to be similar or their will only be a few brands to choose from and that would be bad for the industry as a whole.


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## Vortus (Dec 9, 2012)

If its a top shelf item that can be cloned for less, pretty safe bet its been done. I almost got burned on an extrema ratio 185 rao off ebay. Pretty much changed how I buy now as I didn't know at the time, but after did more research.


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## Lodogg2221 (Dec 9, 2012)

Vortus said:


> If its a top shelf item that can be cloned for less, pretty safe bet its been done. I almost got burned on an extrema ratio 185 rao off ebay. Pretty much changed how I buy now as I didn't know at the time, but after did more research.



Same here. I had no idea before about 6 months ago that Magpul stuff was cloned so heavily, and very well cloned I might add in some instances, but looks alone. Function was a completely different story. 
I bought an MS3 sling from a store on eBay, that insisted they were genuine. It didnt work as well as I thought it should, so I sent an email to Magpul asking a couple questions.
They called me, asked a few things, and knew pretty quick I had a fake. Packaging was even spot on....

Happens with everything thats good. Its not hard for some of those factories to make that type of stuff so cheap. I would imagine some factories in China exist solely to make these counterfeit pieces.... 

Back to the original topic of SFs being cloned, the ones Ive seen on the web looked the part, but were not close in quality. Lower quality finishing of the aluminum, while still decent, not close to SF, and the logo was painted on, as well as the anodizing on some was simply paint.


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## ganymede (Dec 9, 2012)

eg1977 said:


> There are several fake Surefire M951 weapon lights on ebay, serial number 187195



That seller has 4 M951 of the same serial no for sale! Do that even make M951 in black? The wordings and logo on the body seems faint, tell tell sign of a fake?


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## nzgunnie (Dec 11, 2012)

Although not applicable to SF as they are manufactured in the US, many companies that have their product manufactured in China run the risk of 'grey market' items being sold. These are items made on the same production lines as the real thing, basically once the production run for the company has finished, the factory keeps producing extra units that it then sells, undercutting the original manufacturer. Strictly speaking they aren't counterfeits, but likewise they aren't exactly genuine either.


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## BillSWPA (Dec 11, 2012)

nzgunnie said:


> Although not applicable to SF as they are manufactured in the US, many companies that have their product manufactured in China run the risk of 'grey market' items being sold. These are items made on the same production lines as the real thing, basically once the production run for the company has finished, the factory keeps producing extra units that it then sells, undercutting the original manufacturer. Strictly speaking they aren't counterfeits, but likewise they aren't exactly genuine either.



Just to add some clarification to the intellectual property issues, and not just responding to this quote . . . 

Gray market goods are goods that are legitimately manufactured by the maker whose trademark they bear, but are not authorized for the particular market into which they are being imported. Often, a US maker will make lower quality goods for export, knowing that in some foreign markets, the quality expectations are lower and the price charged will be lower. Obviously that maker would not want these products getting back into the US, where they would damage that maker's reputation. If these goods do make it back into the US, they would be gray market goods. Or, a foreign maker will sell the same goods to foreign distributors at a lower price, and to US distributors at a higher price. The foreign distributors will sometimes attempt to undercut the US distributors, resulting 
in the foreign goods being imported as gray market goods.

A gray market product is legitimate under trademark law as long as it is equivalent to other products bearing that trademark, including the warranty under which it is protected. Manufacturers will often not warrant gray market goods, claiming that once the goods leave their established distribution chain, they have no control over what happens to them, and therefore they can no longer consider them to have been purchased new. So, the seller will sometimes offer their own warranty.

Omega watches recently attempted to stop the gray market by printing a copyrighted design on the back of their watches, and suing Costco for making the first US sale of the copyrighted design. Even though Costco had purchased legitimate Omega watches, a copyright owner has the right to control the first sale of a copy of the copyrighted design. The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals held that the sale that a "first sale" occurring outside the US was not a "first sale" under US copyright law, because that would extend US law to foreign countries. The US Supreme Court split 4-4 on the issue. The US Supreme Court is currently considering the issue again, this time with respect to textbooks.

As for goods made on the same production line as the ones produced for a trademark holder but in excess of what the trademark holder ordered, if I understand the situation Ozgunnie is describing correctly (and it is quite possible that I do not), this appears to be an attempt to pass off the extra goods as goods coming from the trademark holder, and would likely involve at least trade dress, and possibly trademark, infringement.

Regarding patents, the requirements for obtaining a patent are that the patented subject matter must be novel (no one has done it before), nonobvious (it would not be obvious to one skilled in the art in light of what has been done before), and useful. Companies patent their innovations because they are the subject of significant research and development expense, and allowing third parties to reverse engineer them without undergoing these expenses would provide no incentive to do this research and development. Patent infringement causes serious harm to the innovative companies that did the R&D to produce the product.


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## CrimsonHell (May 18, 2013)

Hello guys I too my self having some questions regarding SF clones. 

Now Im close to buy a SF a187195. But Im not an expert on SF and flashlights generally so some advices would be welcome....I have some photos of the flashlight and I would like to tell me if you can spot something unusual!!
take a look at this photobucket library and tell me....

http://s1274.photobucket.com/user/Marneus_Calgar/slideshow/

:thanks: :thanks: :thanks:​


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## Bullzeyebill (May 18, 2013)

CrimsonHell, I have approved your post, but it is off topic relative to the direction that the thread topic has taken. Please feel free to post your own thread with your questions. 

Bill


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## ampdude (May 18, 2013)

One thing I have found they are doing with some of these clones is silk screening the logo, fcc id and serial number onto the light instead of laser engraving it. I didn't know they were re-using the same serial over and over. Feel sorry for the guy who owns the legit M951 with that serial.


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## Kaban (May 18, 2013)

What I find disturbing is if this guy would openly admit that he is selling knockoff lights to a person who doesn't know any better and comes to him thinking he is buying the real thing. I doubt this guys will tell someone " oh yeah by the way these are fake lights" to someone who has no idea.


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## BillSWPA (May 19, 2013)

BillSWPA said:


> Gray market goods are goods that are legitimately manufactured by the maker whose trademark they bear, but are not authorized for the particular market into which they are being imported. Often, a US maker will make lower quality goods for export, knowing that in some foreign markets, the quality expectations are lower and the price charged will be lower. Obviously that maker would not want these products getting back into the US, where they would damage that maker's reputation. If these goods do make it back into the US, they would be gray market goods. Or, a foreign maker will sell the same goods to foreign distributors at a lower price, and to US distributors at a higher price. The foreign distributors will sometimes attempt to undercut the US distributors, resulting
> in the foreign goods being imported as gray market goods.
> 
> A gray market product is legitimate under trademark law as long as it is equivalent to other products bearing that trademark, including the warranty under which it is protected. Manufacturers will often not warrant gray market goods, claiming that once the goods leave their established distribution chain, they have no control over what happens to them, and therefore they can no longer consider them to have been purchased new. So, the seller will sometimes offer their own warranty.
> ...



I apologize if this is off topic, but I though tit might be helpful to provide an update . . . 

The US Supreme Court has now decided the textbook case I mentioned above. They found that the "first sale' doctrine applies to a legitimate copyrighted item regardless of where in the world the first legitimate sale takes place. Once the first legitimate sale takes place, the copyright owner's rights are extinguished with respect to that particular item (but not other copies). So, it is therefore not copyright infringement to import a "gray market" product containing copyrighted material into the US, as long as there was a legitimate first sale for which the copyright owner received the appropriate compensation. So, copyright is no longer a tool for fighting the gray market.


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## RIX TUX (May 19, 2013)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



silveradohd39 said:


> Hello Confederatescott,
> My name is Thomas and I am the PR specialist for SureFire. I saw this post and wanted to know if you could contact me so we can look into the "phony" SureFire's. [email protected]
> Kind Regards,
> Thomas


interesting story, there are many fakes out there, I have bought a fake one on ebay and the seller just swore up and down it was a real one.


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## Bullzeyebill (May 19, 2013)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

Folks, there are five quotes of silveradohd39's post. Please, no more.

Bill


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## Rat (Jun 5, 2013)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

Check out how many Fakes there is out there. I sent the info to Surefire hope they shut the dogs down.

http://www.smallordersworth.com/led...0_91_92.html?zenid=7n86mbm8bgct040ks9r95tnlc0


:wave:


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## 880arm (Jun 5, 2013)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



Rat said:


> Check out how many Fakes there is out there. I sent the info to Surefire hope they shut the dogs down.
> 
> http://www.smallordersworth.com/led...0_91_92.html?zenid=7n86mbm8bgct040ks9r95tnlc0
> 
> ...



Pretty incredible. Looks like PayPal won't even do business with them. Noticed this on their shipping page . . .



> Our Paypal account was frozen on Dec. 25th, 2012. So buyers please send the payment via.
> Western Union. You can send the payment online in www.WesternUnion.com.


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## ronrog69 (Jun 5, 2013)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*

I found these clones while looking for a Surefire E1E. Notice in the description for the E1D at smalloredersworth.com that it indicates these are replicas of the real thing. I haven't looked at the other Surefire clones to see if they contain this discreet disclaimer.


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## BillSWPA (Jun 5, 2013)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



ronrog69 said:


> I found these clones while looking for a Surefire E1E. Notice in the description for the E1D at smalloredersworth.com that it indicates these are replicas of the real thing. I haven't looked at the other Surefire clones to see if they contain this discreet disclaimer.



Your post hit the nail on the head: _discreet_ disclaimer. Everything about the listing and description would lead most consumers to believe that they are buying the real thing until they get to the end of the description.

I am an intellectual property attorney, and would be very, very surprised if this disclaimer prevented them from being held liable for willful trademark infringement. Trade dress infringement also appears quite likely.


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## chnzwh (Jun 5, 2013)

jhc37013 said:


> I just got to wonder which over seas manufacturer actually made it or what other brand lights may be made in the same facilities, especially since the OP said the body was well made and the printing on the logo was well done. To me it sounds like their not made on the same factory line as your everyday $2 flea market light, but then again maybe it is.
> 
> I buy plenty of over seas light and the ones I buy are well made and I'm proud of many of them, they are even my most prized EDC gear even ahead of my made in the US EDC blades.
> 
> ...



The brands you're looking for are Fire Kylin and Elements. I know there are more factories cloning SureFire in China but their products are not distributed in international markets.


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## AnAppleSnail (Jun 5, 2013)

If it's on topic, and y'all are interested, here is another route for gray-market goods to be produced: Suppose I go into business with a Chinese manufacturer to produce 5000 SnailFire flashlight bodies per month for five years. That's 300,000 lights for me to sell, and I may or may not ship machine tools and die presses (And other machining bits as needed) with contracts and riders and penalties not to give away my designs, and to return the machine tools after 5 years, and so on.

The next month I might find the market flooded with SlugFire lights that are just about like mine, down to the thread pitch and finishing. What happened? They made 10000 SnailFire lights per month. Or 20000. Just another way you get gray market things out there, and another risk to handle carefully with overseas manufacturing.

Props to SureFire for taking care of people who hurt their brand, and those who help them find them. I'll have to keep an eye out next time I go to a show


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## tobrien (Jun 7, 2013)

*Re: Surefire "clones" (counterfeits) for sale at gunshow*



BillSWPA said:


> Your post hit the nail on the head: _discreet_ disclaimer. Everything about the listing and description would lead most consumers to believe that they are buying the real thing until they get to the end of the description.
> 
> I am an intellectual property attorney, and would be very, very surprised if this disclaimer prevented them from being held liable for willful trademark infringement. Trade dress infringement also appears quite likely.



yeah i was gonna mention the *willful* infringement being the final nail in the coffin


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