# MicroFire 24W HID Evaluation and Discussion thread



## 4sevens (Sep 9, 2006)

This thread is the split-off discussion about the WarriorII from this groupbuy:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/124886

____________________________________________________

Oh my. My warrior II just showed up. I plugged it in the charge and in
10 minutes it was ready (it must have been charged already).

Cheers to RR for a quick ship!

The warrior II has the vented holes in the head. It's been running 15 minutes
so far and it's pretty hot. Not just the head but the entire body.

Very nice size - length actually. it's a bit thick. significantly thicker than
a D mag. Reflector is nicely sputtered. clear o-rings everywhere - I suspect
silicone.

The beam - it's very similar to the 10w solarc. The characteristic pink and
blue rings. Focus is adjustable so you just have to work it to mix the two.
However, my bulb is about 3mm off center and the best I can do is match
the pink and blue as much as possible. I have two circles, pink and blue
slightly off center. (those of you have have solarc 10w HID's know what I'm
talking about) Anyway, a bit disappointing.

Compared to a 10w hid, it's noticably brighter. Less than the costco 35w
in total output. It's quite a lot of light in such a small package.

I just noticed that every now and then the HID will flicker. Kind of annoying.

Finish. I examined the entire exterior carefully when I received. There are
about half a dozen nicks and gashes. Two of which have bare aluminum.
Some QC work needed. But over it's pretty solid. The finish is not mag
shiney and yet not exactly matte. I believe it can be HA. I haven't done
the scratch test yet, but that still doesn't tell you much. Oop.. it's flickering
again. It's realy annoying. 

20 minutes elapsed. It's been sitting on the table tailstand. I can't pick
it up now... it's too hot. Ambient temp is 73deg.

I'm going to finish the runtime and take some pictures and report back


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## CarbonArc (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: MicroFire 24W HID Group Buy - FLASHLIGHTS ARE IN THE MAINLAND!!!!!*

47s- Cant wait for the pictures


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## Kiessling (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: MicroFire 24W HID Group Buy - FLASHLIGHTS ARE IN THE MAINLAND!!!!!*

4x7 ... do you happen tohave a CR123 bidy also ... for brightness and runtime comparo with the Li-Ion? 
bernie


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## 4sevens (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: MicroFire 24W HID Group Buy - FLASHLIGHTS ARE IN THE MAINLAND!!!!!*



Kiessling said:


> 4x7 ... do you happen tohave a CR123 bidy also ... for brightness and runtime comparo with the Li-Ion?
> bernie



Sorry bernie, I do not have the cr123 holder 

runtime finished at 45 minutes. I just charged it up and am about to make
another run. I checked the voltage and it was 15.05V 
That is NOT good. I hope this is not normal. This means if it's three
18650 li-ions in series, each cell is about 5v. I pulled the back of the charger
when the light turned green  Not good news. Li-ions charged past 4.20v
will kill the cells!


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## NewBie (Sep 9, 2006)

*Re: MicroFire 24W HID Group Buy - FLASHLIGHTS ARE IN THE MAINLAND!!!!!*



4sevens said:


> Sorry bernie, I do not have the cr123 holder
> 
> runtime finished at 45 minutes. I just charged it up and am about to make
> another run. I checked the voltage and it was 15.05V
> ...


 

You really do not want to be charging Li-Ion cells to above 4.2 to 4.3 volts, depending on the cell chemistry.

As I understand it, the pack is a perfect fit for having three 18650 cells inside of it.

Charging them above this results in Lithium plating out of the ion chemistry, and is **extremely** dangerous for a Lithium Ion cell, due to it's chemistry! 18650 cells make the CR123A cell ventings/videos look like childs play.

Please tell me this isn't true.

Please...


Additional scoop on Li-Ion cells over here:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=106242&page=1&pp=40


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## Kiessling (Sep 9, 2006)

Didn't someone say that there are 4 x Li-Ion in this thing?
Not that I listen to Li-Ion pack data, but my memory urged me to write this nonsense ... 

45min is great for the size of the light though!

bernie


P.S.: shouldn't we start a new thread for evaluation? I think it would be better ...


EDIT: I splitted off the discussion part and started this new thread. Please continue here ...


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## NewBie (Sep 9, 2006)

If it is true, that there is a problem here, are these covered under warranty?


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## 4sevens (Sep 9, 2006)

I check the diameter of the 4 cells together and there is no way that there
is 4 cells in there. I'm pretty sure it's 3 cells. Specs say it's a 12v 2a light.
hmm


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## ShortArc (Sep 9, 2006)

Received my light a few hours ago. The charger indicated that the battery was fully charged (well almost).

The runtime of my light was 44 minutes. 

I do concur that the light is too hot to handle with time.

I am letting things cool down before recharging.

Cheers.


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## River Runner (Sep 9, 2006)

I fired off an email to MicroFire asking one of their design engineers to address the battery charging question. When I get a response I'll post it up here.

Lance


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## scaredofthedark (Sep 9, 2006)

is there a way i can lubricate the rotating to focus the head? without messing up my light like lubricating the threads for the battery
i wanna keep things nice and slippery

i really like this light so far! freakishly bright!! :lolsign: 
it makes my U2 look like a minimag... when i have my minimag next to my U2
only thing that i don't like is how hard i have to screw on the battery kinda hard to get off sometimes


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## ShortArc (Sep 9, 2006)

I should have added to my earlier post that the light I received does have a centered bulb, it does not flicker or have any nicks or blemishes. 

4sevens, maybe you should return it for inspection?

From a thermal perspective I don’t understand why they opted for vent holes.. The natural convection achieved could not have driven the temperature profile down by much. A conductive mass with fins would have been a better solution, albeit more expensive.


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## seattlite (Sep 9, 2006)

So, the postman came today and THESE finally showed up:







Which contained these:






And my birthday is still 2 weeks away. :twothumbs




Compared to my M6R/MN21, the K2000R is much brighter. As received, the light flickers only slightly when warming up to full brightness and the battery was fully charged. My M6R Ripoff holster also holds the light quite well.






Richard


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## That_Guy (Sep 9, 2006)

I addressed the 15V charge voltage in the GB thread. There is a capacitor across the output of the battery. If you discharge this capacitor you will find that the voltage is in fact 12.6V when fully charged, which is exactly what it should be.

What I think happens is the charger puts out current limited 15V and relies on the batteries internal protection circuit to trip. After the circuit trips the chargers voltage jumps up to 15V and charges the capacitor across the output to the same voltage.


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## N162E (Sep 9, 2006)

That_Guy said:


> I addressed the 15V charge voltage in the GB thread. There is a capacitor across the output of the battery. If you discharge this capacitor you will find that the voltage is in fact 12.6V when fully charged, which is exactly what it should be.


This makes sense. I've noticed that when the battery is fresh off the charger, the first time you hit the switch there is a bright brief flash. Almost like a "Flash Bulb"


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## tysonb (Sep 9, 2006)

Gentlemen who have received the light,

What is your opinion on the 'vent' holes around the bezel?
How would you compare the Annodizing against that of Surefire?
Did it come with that case in one of the pics?
Are you happy with your purchase?
How does the switch compare to a Z57 clicky?
Is there a thread on the top of the bezel that will allow for a crenelated addon?


Gentlemen in the group buy in general,

Any ideas for a lanyard setup on this fella?


Thanks for your time,

Tyson


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## scaredofthedark (Sep 10, 2006)

my vent holes seem todo nothing the metal still gets pretty hot....
compared to the surefire iono so far it's pretty close to the U2 my U2 has worn areas around the knurling but this new light doesn't have those areas so it should hold up pretty good. 
i am indeed happy with it
i don't see threads on the top of the bevel

and i dunno what kind of switch you are talking about...
and this flashlight is pretty heavy for it's size so i dunno if you wanna put it around your neck for long periods of time


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## seattlite (Sep 10, 2006)

tysonb said:


> What is your opinion on the 'vent' holes around the bezel?


I don't like it. IMHO, I would think twice about using this in the rain and in dusty, dirty conditions.



tysonb said:


> How would you compare the Annodizing against that of Surefire?


Cosmetically, The annodizing is better matched then that of SF. However, I'm uncertain about durability.



tysonb said:


> Did it come with that case in one of the pics?


No case. Just a couple of blue boxes, one for the head/rechargeable battery, and the other for the charging base and power brick. Boxes look like the ones that ship with Pila batteries/charger.



tysonb said:


> Are you happy with your purchase?


Yes. It throws like crazy, and its output is MUCH greater than an M6/MN21. HOWEVER, it takes about 20-30 seconds to reach full brightness. At the $400 price point, you get lots of lumens and throw in a package that is just slightly bigger than an M6.



tysonb said:


> How does the switch compare to a Z57 clicky?


Clicky tail switch feels like a larger version of the Vital Gear clicky.



tysonb said:


> Is there a thread on the top of the bezel that will allow for a crenelated addon?


I don't see one.



tysonb said:


> Any ideas for a lanyard setup on this fella?


There are slotted holes on the tailswitch guard, which could be used for a lanyard. What type...I don't know.


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## CarbonArc (Sep 10, 2006)

Does anyone have any good beamshots posted yet? also what does the bulb in this model look like? Thanks


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## vandrecken (Sep 10, 2006)

Don't have mine yet but if you want a lanyard how about narrow webbing (like for a camera or binocular strap) passed through one of those slots on the tailcap. Superglue is quite good at sticking webbing back to itelf to form a loop if you can't find a ladder buckle in a small enough size.

Cheers.


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## CarbonArc (Sep 10, 2006)

This page might spark some creativity. If anyone comes up with anything good let me know. http://www.berkeleypoint.com/applications/flashlights/index.html


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## ShortArc (Sep 12, 2006)

Here are a few pictures showing the bulb.













Also I did discover a few nicks but nothing really worth mentioning







Overall a nice light (still don’t like the vent holes).


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## seattlite (Sep 12, 2006)

I also don't like the vent holes. Also the smooth body makes it difficult to get a firm grip. Not enough knurling on the lights body. However, the light is bright with great throw. The beam and body also do produce a pretty cool light sabre effect.


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## scaredofthedark (Sep 12, 2006)

did anyone find a way to take off the bezel yet? or find a way to lubricate the threads for the focusing head?


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## cmacclel (Sep 13, 2006)

I don't understand or agree with people that take these small HIGH PERFORMANCE lights and turn them on and leave them on a table to perform runtime tests.

Your hand / body acts as a heat sink to keep the lights temperature down. If your light is to HOT to hold I think it's best you turn it off before you risk damaging it. 

This K2000R is a nice *Little* light. It's bar NONE the *smallest* brightest light currently available. Small lights have there advantages and draw backs. If you want a light that you can leave on unattended then maybe you should pick up an AE Shorty 24w HID the output and runtime is comparable but is 2+ times the size and can dissipate the heat when left unattended.



Mac


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## 4sevens (Sep 13, 2006)

I've been using mine on walks and exploring outside the house at night.
Pretty neat. I have verified that it does properly charge the li-ions. (whew!)
When fully charged, and the switch is not engaged, the capacitor retains 15v.
But if the switch is engaged it reads 12.48v which is 4.16v for each cell.
Perfectly okay. It does get a big warm after 10 minutes... even in hand
and walking around.

I didn't like the vent holes at first, but now I dont' mind. There are o rings
that seal up everything. I do believe it helps. The reflector temperature
is much greater than the body. If the inside was finned, that would be 
a neat effect.


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## NewBie (Sep 14, 2006)

Could someone please post non-saturated and saturated beamshots please?

Non-saturated means the center is not solid white and washed out.

Saturated would show the flood area well.


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## CarbonArc (Sep 15, 2006)

I recieved my light today and cant wait to test it out tonight. Will keep everyone updated.


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## River Runner (Sep 16, 2006)

I received a response for MicroFire about the battery charger. They assured me everything was okay and working as intended, and that in addition to, "...a digital protection circuit inside the battery, our chargers are “smart”, with over-charging and short-circuit protection, they stop charging automatically once the battery is full, and you even need not take them off charge to stop over charging".

Hope this helps to alleviate some concerns and provides a little more information about the battery/charger circuitry.

Lance


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## scott.cr (Sep 18, 2006)

I received my two Warriors today and here are my initial observations:

1) This light is not anodized, the finish is black powdercoat. (Personally I prefer powdercoat over type II; I don't think either is clearly superior in terms of durability if done properly.)

2) One of my lights has a clearly superior beam; nice, round and uniform in color. The other has a very reddish halo and rough edges around the main spot. It doesn't bother me a bit though.

3) What a crap job of packing they did. Both my lights had pieces bouncing around inside their respective boxes, scuffing the finish and damaging the screw threads on both light heads. I was able to repair the threads on my lathe, but CRIPES!!

4) The sealing o-rings are silicone; this is okay, but I think Surefire did a better job when spec'ing buna-n for their rings. Silicone is not good against tearing/abrasion (so keep them well-lubed with NYOGEL - silicone is not resistant to some types of grease). But, silicone has a much higher operating temp than buna-n, in the 400 F range... does it matter? Probably not, but these lights do run quite hot.

5) Mac was right, these are very bright lights, and they do run hot.

6) The vent holes do scare me a little, not so much from a cosmetics standpoint as a contaminant-intrustion standpoint.

7) To those of you who have spare batteries: Are any of you interested in a Delrin threaded plug to protect the contacts? If there's enough interest I would be willing to manage a group buy.

8) The clicky switch: I like its feel. It's a light click rather than a heavy click. It's not as tactile as the Surefires, but I rather light it.

9) If I think of anything else I'll edit this posting!

EDIT:
So I disassembled my light today to smooth out the focusing mechanism, and to see what makes this baby tick. (It’s easier than you think.) First off, let me say this is a cleverly designed and very well-made light. I can’t comment on the reliability of the electronics, but mechanically speaking, I am very comfortable with the prospects of this light’s ruggedness. The weak link might be the lamp itself, which is suspended on wires instead of being solidly potted.

Disassembly of the light consists of removing the battery pack, focus lock ring and bezel. The reflector is threaded into the bezel and the two should come out together; if they don’t, simply pull the reflector out of the head. Friction from its lower o-ring could be holding it in place.

The lamp assembly is threaded into the bottom of the head; it has notches for a spanner, but easily unscrewed by hand on both my lights. Both my lamp assemblies had all kinds of greasy fingerprints all over the electrical contacts so I was feeling real proud of myself after cleaning them hahaha.

I noticed that almost zero lube was used during the factory assembly of these lights, and a touch of Nyogel went a LOOOONG way toward making these things run smoother. Also, one of my o-rings was torn, probably due to being siezed and stretched when screwing the light together. I ended up replacing all the o-rings with buna-n, which is a lot more durable than silicone and doesn’t tear as easily.

Now this is a purely subjective observation, but both lights seemed quite a bit brighter after this cleaning up and lubricating routine. Perhaps it’s the placebo effect, but perhaps it’s the cumulative effect of fully seating the lamp and cleaning its contacts?

By the way, I don’t think dirt intrusion into the head’s ventilation holes will be much of an issue. The reflector is o-ring seals on all sides, and can be easily removed for cleaning if necessary. (Avoiding contact with the mirrored surface, as usual.)

I also tried disassembling a rechargeable battery pack to see what the deal is with one of the on/off switches, which doesn't have a solid feel to it. But, I lack the proper spanner and don't want to risk scratching the electrical contact traces. (Other than that, the pack looks easily disassembled.)


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## mreinders (Sep 19, 2006)

scott.cr said:


> 3) What a crap job of packing they did. Both my lights had pieces bouncing around inside their respective boxes, scuffing the finish and damaging the screw threads on both light heads. I was able to repair the threads on my lathe, but CRIPES!!


 
I second that; the threads on the business part of my light were also damaged (in transit?) , making it a bu**er to screw the battery pack on and off.


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## Photongun (Sep 19, 2006)

I have to say, while there are a few aspects of the light that could do with improving, ultimately I am veryyyy impressed and generally content with my purchase. The diminuative and carefully focused k2000r has output and throw to rival my mighty PL24. If anything, the PL24 has slightly more spill but there is very little between the two. 

To illuminate an apartment block 1000 feet away with something only marginally larger than a 2D eveready is pretty exciting in my books.

Yes the anodizing and contruction isn't perfect. And yes having no charging dock (as the PL24 does) is inconvenient. Yes the battery life is substandard and yes the holes in the bezel are silly and a little negligent. YES YES YES!!

*But alas... *This little light throws to kingdown come thy will be done and it tears through the darkness like no other light its size. Surely thats what we were all after.

If the above trait wasn't what you were after then you bought the wrong light! If it was, then you should accept its inadaquancies and be pleased as punch! (Just like me) *wry grin*


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## scott.cr (Sep 19, 2006)

Hey guys, I've added to post 30 on how to disassemble the light for cleaning and lubrication. (Trust me, it needs both.)

BTW, I forgot to mention that one reason why the threads seem so rough on these things is that the metal parts are made of powdered metal, not machined from bar stock. Machined threads are usually very smooth; powdered metal threads can be rough because they are not usually treated/smoothed after the component is removed from the mold.


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## mreinders (Sep 20, 2006)

Followed scott.cr's advice - nice one - and the light now feels "proper". Previously the focusing ring was making a nasty squeak, now everything runs super smooth. I used a R/C lubricant (Robbe No.5531) specified for metal bearings, should be able to take the heat.
This is my 1st HID, as my CPF status aptly indicates, and all in all I am very happy. Much much brighter than expected and a very definate high-tech cool factor... just don't tell anyone what you paid for it or they look at you funny.


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## scaredofthedark (Sep 21, 2006)

thanks scott.cr
i didn't know you had to take the bulb out before you can take the focusing ring out....


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## ShortArc (Sep 21, 2006)

scott.cr,

Thanks for the great instructions. Could not wait and just got done lubing the light with some Krytox (no Nyogel kicking around). Some parts of the assembly were lubed but most were not. What a difference!

Thanks.


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## vandrecken (Sep 21, 2006)

just returned after midnight from a few days away to find the cr123 version of the light waiting on my desk. Opening up I thought oh - have I been sent the wrong one because the first two boxes out of the carton were labelled accessories - needn't have worried, they were both empty !
The main box simply held the head unit and the body, separate and packed in foam. No damage and both parts were in good condition except minor dings around where they screw together.

To load the batteries, (inserted as two layers of four cells) the last inch of the handle with the switch is screwed off. There are matching bulges and cutouts on the two parts to ensure correct alignment when reassembling and then the switch is screwed up snug. As Scott said, next to no lube anywhere so I'll follow his tips but even dry everything went together easily enough just being patient and steady to make sure the threads were properly engaged.

Power up seems to take the standard 30 ish seconds. A momentary flash drops to dull purple rings and a steady ramp up to Bl**dy impressive ! Indoors it lights the room up better than the stack of MR16 halogens that normally light my kitchen. Outdoors the beam is great - tight enough to carry the 200 yards to the end of the cul-de-sac opposite and light up the houses there a treat.

I ran the light for 6 or seven minutes (primary cell lumens ain't free and I haven't bought the 1760 or whatever rechargeables I'll use in it yet) and while it warmed up a bit in the hand it didn't become "hot".
it will be interesting to see if the runtime on primaries does reach the 50 or so minutes reported and if maybe the output is a little less than can be wrung from low resistance rechargeables.

Overall, a very neat little light. I think it will have a nice wow! factor with the guys down the pub 

Cheers.


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## Kiessling (Sep 22, 2006)

Can we use PILA 168S cells in the CR123a body? oo:
Sure?
bernie


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## rusky (Sep 24, 2006)

Just picked mine up on Thursday. Couldn't wait to get home and charge her up. Same problem as some of you guys, the threads to screw on the battery was nicked a little bit so tightening the battery down was met with resistance. I too was really impressed with the light, although this being my first I don't have anything else to compare it too.

I did notice that the body does get really hot when on for extended periods, but considering the size of the light there would not be as much metal for heat dissipation. Also when pointing the light straight up at the ceiling, I did notice that my light changed color temperature to a more reddish instead of the bluish tint. Anyone else notice this or any color change?

Also, Scott, I would be interested in the cap for the battery and also would appreciate it if you would put a K2000R care package together for me with your "mods" like the orings and that lube. PM me with more info on those please.

Overall great light though. Just need to get that M6 ripoff holster now, unless someone has a better way to hold the light. I better look at getting a pelican case too, huh?


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## NewBie (Sep 24, 2006)

No saturated and unsaturated beamshots yet?


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## vandrecken (Sep 24, 2006)

Kiessling said:


> Can we use PILA 168S cells in the CR123a body? oo:
> Sure?
> bernie



Now I've had a chance too examine it properly, I think the answer will be no.

The primary cell body looks like it connects the cells as two off (sticks of four series connected cells) in parallel giving 12v with quite a good capacity. Use RCR123 and we'll get too high a voltage (16v + from 4 cells in series). Use double length rechargeables and we'll get effectively 2 cells in series or only 8 ish volts. I'm guessing that's probably too low to drive the light reliably.

The odds are that the rechargeable pack uses just three larger cells in series giving 12 -13v output in a triangular arrangement rather than the 4 square layout in the tightly packed primary cell unit. That might also explain the slight difference in runtime.

Now I've decided I like it, I think I might get Lance to grab me a rechargeable pack as well


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## Kiessling (Sep 24, 2006)

Second NewBies request for beamshots ... while waitin gfor mine ...  ...
Especially interested in shots of the CR123 version compared to the Li-Ion version or a AE24, including runtime!

Come on, guys!  
bernie


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## ShortArc (Sep 26, 2006)

I have a charging question:

I was about to charge the battery of the K2000R for the third time last night but noticed that when I placed it in the charging cradle that the LED would not turn red. First I checked that the switch was on which it was. After several attempts no success. Next I measured the voltages. 15.xV of the charger 8.xV on the battery. I used the Amp meter as a “battery bug” to get the voltage down just to see if that made a difference. Finally the charging LED switched to red. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments? Will have to see with the next recharge if this issue is persistent.
Willem.


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## River Runner (Sep 26, 2006)

Kiessling,

I'm really surprised you haven't yet received your light. I ran a track on it and traced it to Dallas, TX from where it was shipped to Germany on 9/8. I spoke with the USPS people and they told me that the light was in Germany somewhere awaiting delivery. 

They suggested that you first contact your postal service to see if they had the light. If that gets you nowhere, they offered that customs is sometimes backed up because of hightened security and that you should contact customs. The label/tracking number is LC074053615US. It was marked as a flashlight, gift at the requested value. 

Let me know what you find out.

Thanks,
Lance


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## Kiessling (Sep 26, 2006)

I guess it will arrive soon enough or be stuck in customs. Happens more and more often these days. Will let you know when it arrives or when I have news ... thanx for posting!
bernie


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## nutz_about_lights (Sep 28, 2006)

Second that second request for this baby's beamshots.... 

Pleeaase? :huh:


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