# Why does everyone hate mag lite?



## Raven (Jan 1, 2003)

I'm not trying to stir anything up, but I keep seeing post like this, *** lite. I'm just curious why the company is so disliked. I'm no fan of the little aa mag lites, but I have a 2c, 3c, and 6c, and I think they're great. The light output is decent, although uneven, but you have to admit, mag lites are solid and well built. My fondest hope is that one day mag lite will create an LED version of the 2c and 6c.

Raven


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## logicnerd411 (Jan 1, 2003)

There was a legal dispute (patent issues) about Mag and Arc a while back... about a certain AAA sized product.


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## snake (Jan 1, 2003)

Mag is great! , they set the standard for quality light..(more than 10yr ago) I guess everyone here have it! problem is they didn't have any new product/innovation for very very long time..


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## Albany Tom (Jan 1, 2003)

Well we'll see if this post gets edited or me thrown off the board...






1. Some seem to feel the CEO of said company is a bit of a megalomaniac, and hasn't treated competitors, family members, etc, very well. There's been some TV stories to that effect.

2. Close to 1, but I get the feeling the company likes to sue other companies for what could be considered unfounded reasons. Like if you make a flashlight that's round and the light comes out one end they'll sue you.

3. They make flashlights which, by modern standards, have lousy beams. Really lousy beams that some people have attributed to causing harm to law enforcement officers. 

4. Everybody (the general public) thinks they're great! So people that know better tend to over compensate? "They suck!" When actually, they make a decent hammer. 

5. They haven't done anything to change #3, and instead promote #4. Marketing rather than product improvement.

6. People used to like them, then found out how much nicer other lights are. Kinda like if you always loved and ate SPAM, because that's all you knew, then had a nice prime rib, you'd probably hate SPAM.

Just my personal opinions and speculations. Take with a grain of salt. 

They are solid and well built. There are smaller, brighter, equally well built lights out there though, like the Princeton Tech Surge, or the Underwater Kinetics SL6 for example. If you're open to lithium lights, or rechargeable, there are many more.


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## Nerd (Jan 1, 2003)

Eh, take it that m*g just like to sue their competitors out of business... They refuse to change their business ethnics... beam quality, brightness. Take it that the m*g you have now is essentially the same one 20 years ago. No improvments.


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## Marked (Jan 1, 2003)

Mag is a good cheap light, but I have seen the light since fineing this board and I have moved on to better lights.


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## NightStorm (Jan 2, 2003)

Overly aggressive business practices and beam quality aside, the 3D Mags are very durable lights. I've used the same 3D for over 15 years as an auto mechanic and it still has over 90% of its anodizing. I've only blown 3 or 4 bulbs during that period and have replaced the lens twice [carb cleaner eats the plastic]. It has been dropped multiple times [sometimes as high as ten feet on to concrete] and...yes, it has been run over by a car. For what I paid for it and the service I have received from it, I think I got a good deal.



Besides, leaving a SureFire behind in a customer's car would reduce a grown man to tears.





Dan


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## Raven (Jan 2, 2003)

> Originally posted by Albany Tom:
> *Well we'll see if this post gets edited or me thrown off the board...
> 
> 
> ...


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said. I'm not trying to troll, but you can't expect newcommers to not take notice of the fact, that mag lite seem to be poorly thought of around here.

Raven


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## SUREFARC (Jan 2, 2003)

what x'mas gift you guys expect? Mag or surefire or Arc or surefire & Arc?


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## zyk (Jan 2, 2003)

Maglite is one of my favorite flashlight.
I have one using single AAA battery.(It is very small and easy for me to place it in my pocket or keychain.)
I have another one using 2 AA battery.(it is easy for me to carry and provide enough light when using outside.)
And I also have one using 4 C-size battery.(It give me bright lights and safety when using outside because I can use it as a weapon.) 

The price of the flashlight mentioned above is cheap(reasonable).
So who said maglite is bad.


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## nihraguk (Jan 2, 2003)

i think maglite makes decent products that the general public finds useful, at a reasonable price.

they might have decided not to expand their product line in order to maintain the confidence dealers might have in them. introducing a new product is always a bit of a gamble...it might sell well and it might not. if the latter happens, then mag makes a loss.

to say they haven't made any improvements to their product line is not entirely accurate. they have recently introduced improved bulbs for the magcharger, the C and D cell maglites and the minimags as well if i'm not wrong. there are also several different engineering revisions of their flashlight bodies, though it might not be all that obvious. comparing my recently purchased 3D to a 4D i've had for about 5 years, there have been changes made to the threads and laser-etching on the faceplate. the latter isn't really a real improvement, but the former is.

i think what has bred resentment against mag instruments here is their litiguous approach to solving market competition "problems". basically, they sue the crap out of companies they see as threats. they even seem to take pride in it, from one of the write-ups they have on their website.

whilst some of the cases are legitimate, such as the brinkmann minimag clones which were identical, a recent case they have brought up against one of our favourite flashlight manufacturers is clearly unreasonable and uncalled for.


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## r2 (Jan 2, 2003)

As far as their products are concerned, I think Mag is fine. The build is nice and they are fairly cheap. The bulbs and beam are pretty lousy, but that just means I'll never buy one to use. I'm perfectly happy to ignore them as obsolete technology.

The thing that bothers me about them is that they are using litigation to protect their market share instead of innovation. They sue companies like Arc that make better products instead of improving their own line to compete. Some of their patents are stupid, too. I think they should be allowed to protect against exact clones that are riding on Mag's advertising and reputation, but not against competitors who make completely different products.

I have no respect for companies that abuse the legal system to cover their technical deficiencies. That's why I don't like Mag.

- Russ


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## Anarchocap (Jan 2, 2003)

Mags are like a cross between a Chevy and Microsoft. They build a basic, solid tool at a reasonable price. Don't expect anything more than average features and performance. Their technology is behind the times, and they don't really innovate. But if you try and compete with them with anything that even moderately resembles a Mag model, they'll sue the crap out of ya to try and make you disappear.

From what I have heard, they have patented aluminum tubes with lights on the end. I haven't seen the details of the patent so I can't really add much more than that...


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## SurefireM6 (Jan 2, 2003)

It's not that I don't like them. I think they make good flashlights. It's just HUGE for the light output. The light output just flat out stinks with no new products in years. They are a big bully, getting the BIG company ego where one consumer having some problems don't matter. 

They do make good flashlight housings for Mods





If their output was 10-20x brighter, with a smooth focused beam I would buy them.


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## TrevorNasko (Jan 2, 2003)

If you want a good light steer clear of mag- nuff said.


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## Joe Talmadge (Jan 2, 2003)

r2 expressed my feelings perfectly. In summary, their lack of innovation, and their reprehensible use of the legal system, have both given rise to justifiably bad feelings against them. No one argues that the product isn't fundamentally sound in the sense of being robust and able to take a lot of abuse, but a flashlight is also about _light_, not just ability to take a beating.

Joe


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 2, 2003)

I've said time after time that they make a solid and long lasting product. They just make lousy light. 

I emailed them and they told me they chose reach over a pretty beam. They probably will now try and patent textured reflectors and sue people like Princeton Tec and Rayovac for using them!!!

I have several, and not one is exactly stock as it came. 'Nuff said???

M*9&!T&... is as close to their name as I will type!


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## McGizmo (Jan 2, 2003)

I too concur with r2's statements.

Mag has successfully capitalized on the general public's ignorance and apathy in terms of a general all around "quality" flashlight. With economies of scale, Mag has provided the public a well made and durable tool at incredibly low prices. It is one of the few domestically produced products that can compete price wise with inexpensive import.

As a tool, a flashlight produces light (Duh). Advances in technology have given us better sources of light as well as more efficient and more effective methods of delivering the light produced to the target. Mag has chosen not to embrace these technological improvements which is certainly their choice. From their actions as well as other indications, it would appear that Mag is doing what they can to keep others from bringing such improvements to market. This may be to Mag's financial benefit but not to the consumer's benefit, IMHO. I personally want a better tool and the option of selecting from a range of available product. I resent any company in the position and with the resources to hinder product improvement.

Whether Mag is working within the legal frame work to accomplish a control of the market and impeding the implementation of technological advances is not my concern. The mere fact that they do this is. A recent post brought to light that Mag paid $900,000 in fines for tax evasion as well as improper campaign contributions. I think of the tooling for a better reflector or R&D for an improved light source that this money could have gone to and I cringe! 

If Mag's in house legal staff has nothing better to do then try to remove technically advanced competition by bleeding small and upcoming companies who are not capitalized to the point of doing legal battle with Mag then perhaps Mag should consider reducing their legal staff and diverting the saved resources to their R&D department.

Assume a hypothetical case of ACME Flashlight, a small company designing and bringing leading edge technology in flashlight products to market. If ACME is perceived as a threat to Mag's market, they can respond in any manner of fashions. In one case, they can bring ACME to court. Whether they actually have a case that could be won against ACME is not an issue as Mag can effectively force a cost of defense on ACME that can be lethal in itself. Mag can also chose to manufacture a similar product to ACME's but with an economy of scale that would likely put Mag's offering on the shelf at a fraction of the selling price of ACME's. In either case, Mag will effectively retain their market share. In my opinion, Mag has done a real disservice to the consumer by not following the latter example; oversimplified as it may be. 

I don't hate Mag personally, I have no use for them. I also think they are a glowing example of what might be legal in our society but certainly isn't a sign of strength or character. Ethics aside, I think some of Mag's business practices are deplorable and I can only hope that their motivation and attitude can bring them ultimately what they deserve.

Does might make right? NO
Does Mag make light? YES (just mediocre at best



)

As I stated once in a similar thread but then deleted:

Innovation, not Litigation. 

- Don 

PS. I deleted a few heart felt posts in the past regarding these issues as it was suggested that written comments could be used to Mag's benefit in legal proceedings. If Mag can take what I've written here and use it to their benefit, then F**K ME! Let the legal run amok take us down now and from the rubble perhaps we can start over with some basic fundamentals and ethics revisited.


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## WarrenI (Jan 2, 2003)

Should I dare say the following? What the heck, the Mags that I know and own are not anywhere great of any light!

The good:
1) great machine work
2) great as a club or hammer
3) most units make great battery holders
4) heavy (weight is useful as a club or hammer)

The bad:
1) many, many beam rings (many dark spots)
2) light flickers (esp. when focusing the beam)
3) almost useless wide zoom (just too many rings)
4) batteries bounces (adds to the flickering problem)
5) zero product improvement (with the exception of more body colors to choose from)
6) very heavy for the amount of light produced
7) light turns very yellow in color within a very short while of being turned on
8) no thought of producing a non metal version for people that work with electrical devices (like holding a lighting rod)

Come on now, I know there are many of you just waiting to voice this! I hope Mag hears this and does some sort of product improvement. Everyone deserves more than what they have been doing for over the past 5 plus years...


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## roguesw (Jan 2, 2003)

I noticed several people have said mag is a good cheap priced light, well, i think that only applies in the USA, cos here in New Zealand, a m*gl*t* is sometimes the same price as a underwater kinetics or princeton lights, i would go for the SF or UK or Princeton rather than spend all that money on a M*g. Now that i have found a dealer for SF here in NZ, i can order SF closer to its retail value in the US, and still the price of importation for the M*g makes it more economical to buy the SF or UK or princeton.
And this is purely on a price basis, if u compare quality of light then there is no real contest.
My 2 cents
Des


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## binky (Jan 2, 2003)

I just want to refute the tuffness thing (though I don't exactly know to whom 'cause you all probably get this already):

Since I'm seeing the advert on TV this season... being run over by a huge truck is _exactly_ the same pressure per square inch for that stupid flashlight as when I ride over it with my bicycle, and I'm a skinny computer nerd. It's not the same pounds, but it IS the same pressure/area and that light don't got much area anyway.

It's 35psi either way. BFD.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 2, 2003)

*"...everyone"* might be a somewhat contentious conclusion. Let's see...This BB has about 3000 members. About 7% are still active. Of those 210 members, only about 2 dozen bother to express such admonition (to that extent) for Mag Instrument, Inc. 

The rest of CPF just don't seem to care enough about the topic to voice an opinion for or against Maglite.

The remaining several billion on planet earth just don't care. They're just flashlights!






Me? I only own and use one Maglite model. The rest are obsolete at best.

I probably wouldn't use that one model if it had a hex bezel.






But then, it is just a flashlight.


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## BuddTX (Jan 2, 2003)

This topic has been discussed a lot here!

I am doing a search to see if I can find a previous thread.

Here is a summary from my viewpoint:

Maglights are incredibly well built. That is undisputed. 

Most of the world (except LEO and us flashoholics and some divers) thinks that the best made flashlight in the world is Maglight.

I owned several maglights, thinking that they were the best that existed in the world of flashlights. 

Before Flood Allison hit here in Houston Last June, I thought the best light I could buy was a Mag-lite. And I had many Mag-lights. (and let me say that without ever hearing about CPF's, I WAS a flashoholic!!!) When the flood hit and my Hospital where I work was completely without power for 3 days, and did not get power restored completely for 13 days, I was secretly excited, because I had all these "high end" flashlights.
I was in many very large indoor areas with absolutely NO ambient light, and the mag-ligt was dissapointing, as was my Energizer 8db light. Both gave me a yellow, pencil thin beam, with almost no useable reflective light. If I focused out, the beam has so many shadows and rings, that you had to focus in again to actually see something. It was because of this experience that I started looking on the internet to see "what else is out there", and then I found CPF! (cue in Angelic Choir!)

What bothers me about Mag-light, is that I would bet that they generate more revenue than all the other flashlight companies combined! Their R&D to develop new lights would be pennies per light sold, and they would be able to set up labs, and do research, etc like other companies only wish they could.

Here is that thread:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=002110#000029


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## BuddTX (Jan 2, 2003)

I wrote this on the other thread, and I must modestly say, it is a nice bit of writing, so I will re-post it here:
==========================
Here's another opinion of why mag-lights are criticized so much.
They say that a true alcoholic is an alcoholic long before he or she takes their first drink. 

Well. I think the same is true of a flashoholic.

Picture yourself as a young kid, or even as an adult, needing to purchase your first flashlight. You look at the Mag-light, admire it's shiny aluminum body, and then look at the price. "20 dollars!" "Here's a light for 3 dollars, and it comes with batteries!" Or, if you are still a child, your parents make the decision for you, "What are you crazy, 20 dollars on a flashlight, here's one for 3 that has batteries included!"

So you get the 2 dollar light, and go home, thinking that you made a wise decision. 

You use the light the first time, and, of course, it puts out light, yellow, shadowed and ringed, light. BUT, it gets the job done. It doesn't look like flashlights in the movies or on TV, with their bright white, perfect beams that shine for miles, but you attribute that to special effects.

HOWEVER, in the back of your mind, if you are a true flashoholic, you are wondering about how the MAG-LITE would look. You daydream about it, and it haunts you. Now if your an adult, you can simply save 20 dollars and go and buy that mag-light in a couple of weeks, and see for yourself what you are missing. BUT, if you are a child, and can't get that mag-lite out of your mind, that yearning for the beautiful, "professional-like the cops use" light that will haunt you for years until you are an adult.

The day eventually comes, when you have the money, or the means to buy your first mag-lite. You compare the 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, and 6D lights, if there are any "C" lights there you look at them too, and you read the packages, but do not see much about how bright each light is, but you reason that more batteries, the brighter the light.

So you make your decision, and of course, buy the most expensive batteries available to go into the light, and you go home. You load the batteries into the light, and resisist turning it on, because you don't want to "wear down the batteries". Night comes, and you take the light outside, and, in a dark place, turn it on. IT TURNS ON! YEA. But wait, the beam doesn't look perfect. Then you remember about the adjustable focus, from spot to flood. You think it is soo cool, to actually have a choice to choose spot or flood, and you think that, for now, I would prefer to have the spot. You spend a while, getting the beam to get as near as perfect as you can on the wall 5 feet in front of you, then shine it on the fence far away, and the beam doesn't look as good, so you start to re-focus it again. You come up with a comprimise, and feel good that you have mastered this focusing of the light.

You have a sense of satisfaction, after all, you purchased the most expensive light at Wal-mart, and it is a solid, well built, pretty light. 

BUT, deep down, you know there should be something better. You don't know who, what, where, when or why, but you just do. You do reason with yourself, that the Mag HAS to be the best, because there were no other choices in the high end lights at Wal-mart, or K-mart or your hardware store.

Now maybe years have gone by, and you have purchased several of these Mag-lights, for several areas of the house, auto, other family members, tool boxes, etc.

Now one, day, for whatever reason, you discover that there are high quality lights, that do compete with the Mag-Lite. You purchase one and try it out. For me, this light was the Princeton Tec Surge. I was amazed on how small the Surge was, compared to the mag-lite. You turn the Surge on, and WOW! Your Amazed! Astonished! You can't believe how much light is put out in front of you! And it is a BIG beam too, and there are no shadows or rings, and it has a really nice amount of secondary light around the big, bright, center beam! This is what I was looking for in a light!

After several days of amazement, you start to wonder why it was so hard to find this light. After all, there is no rocket science here. The surge has a bulb, a reflector, a place to put the batteries, and an on/of switch, and the Mag does too. Why can this "little company" make a light that is soo far superior to the mag-lite? And you wonder, why the designers at mag-lite spent soo much time perfecting the machined parts of the body, and neglected the main (and only, really) resason for it's creation, the output of the light itself.

Your disappointed in the retail stores for displaying a whole wall or isle of flashlights, and the pinnicle of the lights is the Mag-lite, and you are dissapointed in that light, and all the other lights are inferior to the Mag! You are upset with Mag, being the leader, and them not trying to improve their product.

It's kind of like finding out as a child, that your Dad does NOT know everything about everything in the whole world! You are let down and dissapointed.

I gotta get back to work!


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## nihraguk (Jan 3, 2003)

WarrenI:

maglite makes general purpose lights that run on common batteries that are made from machined aluminium. they don't and they won't make lithium tactical lights, diving lights, or plastic versions of their lights same way why surefire won't make a 3D cell light or why UKE won't make a desklamp.


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## Monsters_Inc (Jan 3, 2003)

I concur with roguesw. Outside of the country of its origin, Mags ARE priced as the premium brand of torches.

eg. in the US, minigags retail for around $10, whereas here downunder they're close to $AU50, same as half the cost of a say, a Surge. Also it's extremely hard to get a hold of many of the other brands that are mentioned and taken for granted in these forums - so Mag's are here to stay, like it or not.


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## Velcro (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by WarrenI:
> *Should I dare say the following? What the heck, the Mags that I know and own are not anywhere great of any light!
> 
> 3) almost useless wide zoom (just too many rings)*


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you're going to shine it at a nice white wall and stare at it, then you will indeed notice some rings. But if you're going to use it for real-world applications (where flashlights are made for), like lighting up a dark room or path, they won't be that noticeable.

*



6) very heavy for the amount of light produced

Click to expand...

*<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which metal flashlight that uses multiple D-cell batteries isn't?

*



7) light turns very yellow in color within a very short while of being turned on

Click to expand...

*<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just like most alkaline powered flashlights. I have yet to see a non-regulated alkaline powered light that maintains a constant brightness.





Happy New Year,
Velcro
--------------------
{ i don't know what to put here }


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## WarrenI (Jan 3, 2003)

Thanks to everyone who responded to my comments. I originally was not going to post anything, as I do not want to waste too much time with Mags. But, there is a part of me which hopes that Mag will get a peek at this and tries to spend a little more on product inprovement. More different color bodies does not make a better light, but it may look better just sitting there...


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## BuddTX (Jan 3, 2003)

> Originally posted by Velcro:
> If you're going to shine it at a nice white wall and stare at it, then you will indeed notice some rings. But if you're going to use it for real-world applications (where flashlights are made for), like lighting up a dark room or path, they won't be that noticeable.


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Velcro,

I understand what you are saying. As opposed to being in complete darkness, the mag gives useable but not perfect light.

However, I have to say, that in my experience, that was true, until I needed to use my mag light for 8-12 hours a day for 13 days, when the Hospital that I work at, lost all power completely for 3 days, and it was 13 days before complete power was restored.

I found that my Mag and my Energizer 8db lights did not perform well, and they were very heavy to carry around for 8-12 hours at a time, and were not easy to store either. (I had not yet heard about CPF and thought that I owned the best flashlights available).

Specifically, they were:

-Too heavy to carry around for hours
-Reading boxes for identification caused you to have to move the light to read the entire box
-No ambient light, and walking around in a completly dark large facility caused you to have to "spotlight" your area in front of you, and you could not walk fast, because something could be in your way, and you did not spotlight that area before walking.

Also, I think that the general public does expect the mag to be a superior product. I can buy a 1.99, two cell light WITH batteries anywhere. At that price, as long as I am not in darkness, the 1.99 light is meeting my needs. Heck, I bought 50 of them for my dept this spring. We had them just in case of a hurricane or flood, and we could hand them out to the employees.

I think that when an average consumer purchases a mag, they are, in the consumers mind, purchasing a superior product. For 4 to 6 dollars, I could purchase a 3 cell light at the same store, so why would I spend 20.00 on the same light? Because the consumer wants a superior product.


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## Charles Bradshaw (Jan 3, 2003)

When Mags came on the retail scene, they were a superior product, compared to the cheap, unreliable junky flashlights the already saturated the market for years.


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## Bael (Jan 3, 2003)

Firstly let me say I don't want to step on peoples toes and your opinions are as valid as mine.

Ok I see a lot of people complaining about the Mag in here, I have had both of mine (Magcharger and 4D) for around seven years and used them almost every single night, For what I use them for they are absolutly great, Robust, nice balance, waterproof, no big bulbous head and great for defence when your not allowed to carry anything else due to restrictive laws and contractual policies. The only thing I don't like about them is as many have said "The Light" it is poor to say the least and the Magcharger globes are just plain shocking, I went through ten last year and now it just sits at home. That is the main reason I am here, I want to "Fix" my mags.


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## Harlequin (Jan 3, 2003)

Sort of like Harleys, except for the inexpensive part.

"2. Close to 1, but I get the feeling the company likes to sue other companies for what could be considered unfounded reasons. Like if you make a flashlight that's round and the light comes out one end they'll sue you.

3. They make flashlights which, by modern standards, have lousy beams. Really lousy beams that some people have attributed to causing harm to law enforcement officers.

4. Everybody (the general public) thinks they're great! So people that know better tend to over compensate? "They suck!" When actually, they make a decent hammer.

5. They haven't done anyth"ing to change #3, and instead promote #4. Marketing rather than product improvement.

6. People used to like them, then found out how much nicer other lights are. Kinda like if you always loved and ate SPAM, because that's all you knew, then had a nice prime rib, you'd probably hate SPAM."


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## txwest (Jan 3, 2003)

Bael,
What are you calling the Magcharger "globe"?

*************
A hypothetical paradox:
What would happen in a battle between an Enterprise security team, who always get killed soon after appearing, and a squad of Imperial Stormtroopers, who can't hit the broad side of a planet?
*************
This would be "The battle of A century". TX


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## BuddTX (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by Onyx:
> *I concur with roguesw. Outside of the country of its origin, Mags ARE priced as the premium brand of torches.
> 
> eg. in the US, minigags retail for around $10, whereas here downunder they're close to $AU50, same as half the cost of a say, a Surge. Also it's extremely hard to get a hold of many of the other brands that are mentioned and taken for granted in these forums - so Mag's are here to stay, like it or not.*


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This emphasises my point about Mag not following thru on R&D.

Mag's have such market penetration, that Mag could single handedly, introduce the world to a NEW level of light.

Think for a second, if Mag, instead of Brinkmann, had introduced the Legend LX, a nearly SureFire quality light, at 20.00. 

Let me say that retailers tend to listen to manufactures that produce profits for the retail outlet. Given the large amount of premium space that Wal-Mart and other retailers give to Mag, I would think that, fiscally, Mag light produces the kind of numbers that a retailer likes to see.

They could have floor displays in Wal-Mart and other stores, position the product prominantly on their "wall" of lights, set up one of those VCR-TV demo endcaps, and just in general, create a lot of excitement.

AND they would have world wide penetration. 

Heck, let's not even go this far. Let's say that Mag produced a "kit" for your flashlight, that had a new reflector, lense, and bulb. This new "Kit" gave your existing maglight a 50% brighter light, with a "Perfect" beam, and a scratch resistant lense. 

How many MILLIONS of those kits do you think they would sell? I would bet it would be in the millions. I would bet that 95 % of North American Households have at least one mag light.

I should say that I do not know for a fact if Mag does or does not have a R&D dept, but we do not see the results of their efforts on the shelves.


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## Rothrandir (Jan 4, 2003)

hey *ag...keep pumping out those colors...

...i like my body to match my beam color





_what i *really* from them is an aluminum reflector_


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## Bael (Jan 4, 2003)

I think you guys call them bulb's, besides I am fairly illiterate when it comes to torches, as you have probably guessed by me being satisfied with my Mags for so long. I also hate the reflector in the 4D as it does seem "cheap" Ithey fixed the problems with the reflector, bulb and the shitty lens then I would once again be "satisfied" but they won't so it is becoming apparent that I will have to start looking elsewhere. Sorry if I ramble on but 12 hour shifts and a baby do not let me get much rest


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## Charles Bradshaw (Jan 4, 2003)

Bael, in case you haven't noticed, the reflectors are the same part for all C and D Mags. The only thing different in the heads, is the size of the hole in the bottom.


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## Bael (Jan 4, 2003)

I had not noticed as I only have the two lights,however this does not surpise me in the least


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## pedalinbob (Jan 4, 2003)

hey, Bael.

i was unsatisfied with my maglights as well.

i just converted my 3d cell to twin luxeon star/o. i thought about just using one, but i just couldnt resist cramming 2 in there.
it is direct drive at 4.5 volts with a nice, big heatsink.

it is a real flamethrower--even my fiance said "holy crap! that thing is BRIGHT!!!"

the beam is SO much nicer. and i can still light up my back fence at 72 feet away...but i havent tested it for maximum throw.

it was relatively simple and inexpensive...and the luxeons should last a very long time.

good luck,
Bob


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 4, 2003)

> Originally posted by Bael:
> *I think you guys call them bulb's, besides I am fairly illiterate when it comes to torches, as you have probably guessed by me being satisfied with my Mags for so long. I also hate the reflector in the 4D as it does seem "cheap" Ithey fixed the problems with the reflector, bulb and the shitty lens then I would once again be "satisfied" but they won't so it is becoming apparent that I will have to start looking elsewhere. Sorry if I ramble on but 12 hour shifts and a baby do not let me get much rest*


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Holy Shamoly! 12 hour shifts AND a Baby??? My cousin is here right now with her 2 month old SUPRISINGLY quiet baby, so I have a notion of which you speak!

You can make your 4D M*g a TINY bit better by doing two things. Use 1" plastic pipe or even cardboard to put 5 C cells in the 4D. It will be somewhat brighter. Then do what you must to get the bulb as perfectly centered - in my case needlenose pliers are often employed to do so by tweaking the pr base too-and-fro.

Good luck with your light, and your sanity!!!!


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## alberto (Jan 4, 2003)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Muglite came along when there was no other light like it. Rugged, machined aluminum, lantern mode, spare bulb in tail, twist on/off, focusable beam, lanyard attachment, various assessories, etc., which I remember being very impressed with at the time I first saw them (and bought them). What an improvement over the run-of-the mill el-cheapo plastic Evereadies.

The problem, it seems to me, is that they have basically the same product as they started with and others have surpassed them in almost every way -- except in variety of assessories and colors.


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## monanza (Jan 5, 2003)

I don't particularly hate the Mags (*edit*) but I find it 'cute' to mess with the name to express dissatisfaction without implying offense. They have pros and cons just like other lights. I do have several 'objections':

1. Maglites (*edit*) still use the same old anodize process (correct me if I'm wrong). Today's rugged type III anodize improves durability (and long term aesthetics) without significantly impacting overall cost (at least I don't think it would). On the other hand weaker anodize is gentler on clothes and equipment.

2. Their reflectors are coated plastic and are hence susceptible to all kinds of end user damage (and damage from high output lamps if and when installed). They are inexpensive though.

3. Their lamps are low output (and low CRI) and have remained so until recently. Other higher output (and better CRI) lamps have been available for a while from other sources. Lamps are inexpensive though.

4. Lenses are plastic (easily scratched) and Mag does not provide clearer or more rugged alternatives. On the other hand they are replaceable and are inexpensive. There are similarly sized optical quality clear 'glass' lenses now available from an alternate source.

5. Beam quality is not so good (very non-uniform). This is a problem when you are trying to distinguish scene details.

6. Edit - removed. Hearsay.

7. Their litigation efforts may deprive me of better light instruments. I am only speaking of units that are not Mag clones. Edited.

8. Maglites (*edit*) are just so... passe




. They look the same as they did 20 years ago and I am just plain tired of looking at them. And what is a light but an instrument for looking



?

9. Edit - removed. Irrelevant (and ungracious).

10. Edit - removed. Hearsay.

Having said all that, I have modified my Mags (*edit*) in simple ways to improve their output. The only time I would buy a Mag (*edit*) is if I had a plan to modify it in some way.

Cheers.


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## nihraguk (Jan 6, 2003)

maglite's market is the general public, and the general public doesn't really care about beam quality, breathtaking light output, or expensive lithium batteries. they make flashlights that run on commonly available batteries, and relative to other common lights available, maglites are damn fine and relatively cheap for what you get (in the US and singapore at least).

a lot of allegations have been made here regarding the negative impact of the irregular beam, but has any of it been backed up by real accounts by real-life run-of-the-mill law enforcement officers? i have brought my old 3D maglite on a camping trip once and the light output was more than enough for whatever i used it for and the dark spots and rings didn't bother me one bit nor did it deprive me of distinguishing any scene details. the adjustable focus was also a big plus when i needed more throw. i used it for hours on end, and any fading in brightness was not obvious and the light output was still satisfactory.

they advantages of lexan lenses is that they are shatter-proof, and very rugged. sure, they might get scratched up but comparing a new 3D maglite with an older one shows no discernable difference in output. it just -looks- less pretty, but if you're going to use it why bother about its looks? pyrex lenses are only an advantage when using xenon bulbs that produce enough heat to melt lexan lenses. with maglite's default bulbs, i don't see this as an issue. i once accidentally left a 4D maglite on with fresh batteries till they depleted completely, and the light suffered no heat damage.

the coating on the plastic reflectors are easily damaged, but so are those on surefire's reflectors. they use plastic reflectors, for the same reason why they use lexan lenses; because a milled aluminium reflector would add to the cost of manufacturer which would be passed on to the consumer and it adds extra weight to the light (which a lot of CPF members already complain about). the advantages of an aluminium reflector also adds no advantages to a maglite with its default setup.

maglites are good general purpose lights with cheap operating and purchase costs, though my arc AAA rivals it for everyday use. i sometimes have a need for a really bright light in a small package i can carry around, and that's why i got an M2. lastly, am i the only one that feels making fun of maglite's name is a bit childish? c'mon....i'm sure we're all above that, aren't we?

having said that, i strongly and vehemently disapprove of the latest case maglite has brought against a flashlight company we all love. all the best to the aforementioned flashlight company; i will continue to support it and its excellent products.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 6, 2003)

I only spell it funky to confuse the Lawyers search engine. And if you think for one minute Lawyers aren't all over EVERYTHING you are a crazy dude.

On a Lawyer front. There is going to be a trial here with cameras EVERYWHERE. Even in the Jury Room. If I was there, there is NO WAY I would speak my mind, nor argue passionitly for what I believe. Because SOME Lawyer SOMETIME will screw up my life for saying it!


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## guncollector (Jan 6, 2003)

> nihraguk:
> a lot of allegations have been made here regarding the negative impact of the irregular beam, but has any of it been backed up by real accounts by real-life run-of-the-mill law enforcement officers? i have brought my old 3D maglite on a camping trip once and the light output was more than enough for whatever i used it for and the dark spots and rings didn't bother me one bit nor did it deprive me of distinguishing any scene details.


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">nihraguk-

I'm not an LEO (nor do I play one on TV), but there's something quite different about prancing around a campground on recreation vs. entering a known Condition Red (or even Orange) situation.

For example: While given a choice, I would never voluntarily attempt "house-clearing" on my own, there is always that 1:1000 chance that investigating that bump-in-the-night can become just that.

If that were ever the case, I personally *DO NOT* want any dark spots or rings in my flashlight's beam. For if I were to encounter anti-social behavior in any low-light situation, those darkspots and/or rings can/would possibly camouflage a threat (i.e. gun, knife, etc.) to your well being. That simply would not be acceptable.

Now imagine being an LEO on nightshifts, where this reality comes into place each and every shift.

In fact, just ask our resident Moderator and Field Tester Extraordinaire, *dano*, who happens to be an LEO on nightshifts, just what he thinks about having rings or dark spots in his flashlight's beam.


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## logical (Jan 6, 2003)

> Originally posted by Harlequin:
> *Sort of like Harleys, except for the inexpensive part.
> 
> "2. Close to 1................."*


<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">





Them's fightin' words.....


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## monanza (Jan 6, 2003)

nigraguk, you make some fine points. I do disagree with you on the beam pattern issues (which are not unique to Mags -*edit*- by any means). I am not a LEO but I have had reason to search for lost items or work in a dark electrical box/room (or computer case). In all instances I had to go through contortions to make out a detail. In small and medium area searches (e.g. backyard) I remember a lot of false alarms and misses. I had to go over an area multiple times to ensure I did not miss something. There are multiple ways to skin a cat of course and each complaint about a Mag (*edit*) has its rebuttal or solution.

Yes I think for the most part playing around with the name is very childish. Someday I will get tired of doing it (or I will find out I am offending someone in which case I will stop).

Cheers.


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## nihraguk (Jan 7, 2003)

Playboy, guncollector & monanza: i stand corrected



i placed a knife in the middle of a room in my house at night, and i tried my best to imagine i didn't know where it was and tried doing a quick search with my maglite and my M2, and it does make a notable difference....sorry about that. i guess i got carried away with my anti-anti-maglite rant. i sincerely apologise.

btw guncollector: what have been the latest developments regarding surefire's B90 problem? i hope its been fixed already


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## FlameOn (Jan 7, 2003)

i hate maglite because one of their salesman ran off with my wife...hmmm, maybe I don't hate them so much anymore..


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## radellaf (Jan 8, 2003)

I'm happy enough with the mags I have:
Charger
4D (new mag-num star xenon) w/8500mAh NiMH
3D LEDcorp puke-green luxeon
2D new mag-num star xenon, Renewal batts
2C RS K1 600mA krypton, Renewal batts
2C Ray-O-Vac 2V 1.2A rated krypton w/4500mAh NiMH
and many mini mags, normal, 450mA RS krypton, Opalec Newbeam... though I'm STILL WAITING since mid Nov for my intretech kits which I was going to use for xmas gifts. Oh well.

My problem with most "better" flashlights is that they are too expensive to run and have short (sub 10-hour) runtimes. They use either AA cells in quantity, or CR123 lithiums.

That is, if they're incandescent. I consider LED lights a whole other kettle of fish, as I wish mag's legal department did.


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## bewshy (Jan 8, 2003)

Quick question...

How many people have actually used a mag as a weapon? I hammered a nail over so it wouldnt snag before. Thats about as "tactical" as I've gotten with one



The bigger ones seem kinda unwieldy.

eb


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## nihraguk (Jan 8, 2003)

i once locked myself in a room (the doorknob was faulty) and i whacked the doorknob off the door with a 2D mag. the head was banged up pretty badly but it still worked, until i accidentally flooded it one day


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## s2k (Jan 9, 2003)

it's simple to answer the question: Why does everyone hate mag lite? 

maglites do PERTTY WELL in Daily usage. but here, we are HIGH end users.

for most consumers around the world, what do they need? just a flash light can WORK!

mag is:

brighter than most cheap products, 
battery life is longer than most cheap products.
water resistents,
pretty good looking(especially for girls, they will NEVER accept SF's shape),
famous brand but cheap,
focusable beam,
use regular and cheap batteries,
durable, can use for many years,
heavy and strong enough to be a weapon(some models).

aren't these the nomaly requairements for most users all around the world? for families, a mag 2D or 2C is ENOUGH for almost all usage already.

therefor, for nomal consumers all around the world, they don't need such Professional gears like SF, ARC... 

120 lumens is ABSOLUTELY no usage for daily usage just like finding your keys under the bed!

and what's more, the products we are mostly talking about here got VERY, VERY MUCH HIGHER price than mag, this is another point. 

myself like SF better, but my mother will NEVER pay $100, even $50 for just a small flash light!

we talk about technologies here, but the normal consumers do NOT need these technologies AT ALL, that's why they choose mag, most likely the BEST products in LOW END products.

but for myself, i'm just going to buy a SF z3 and a NewBeam for the AA mag i already have





---------------------------

my english is POOR because it's my second language...


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## bykfixer (Aug 19, 2015)

I understand why some people dislike the mag. They're not wrong for those feelings imo.
But the mag strategy isn't aimed at the people who target practices with 44 slugs and insist on being able to cook a 25 pound turkey in their microwave. Tim the tool man scoffs at the mag lite with his binford qj 78 watt rechargeable. But most people are not like that. 
The mag practice is aimed at the miliions, and millions, and millions of people who have turned on a $5 flashlight and it not work. They'll pay $20 because they work. Many buy them over the others for the simple reason that they are made in America. Tony Maglica built a product that people still want. 

I have solos hanging on nails throughout my home. They've been there for years. Same battery. Now at 1 candle power they won't blind a would be robber. But when the lights are out they keep me from tripping over the dog while looking for a candle or that 2am whizz thing.
I turn them on each time I change furnace filters.

I have better lights for this or that. But for $25 that 2D cell LED gets it done. 
Everybody here either has at least one mag, or knows somebody who does. They even replaced fire on a stick in many far away places recently.

My dad bought a 4D cell around 1979, and it still works. It's been used as a hammer, a mini bat, a weapon, and lots of other abuses. And in 2015 they still cost about what it did back then. 

I have friends with mega lites they're real proud of. When I ask "what do you use it for?" Their response is usually "I don't it broke when I dropped it." Meanwhile my mag aa from 1995 still works after being dunked, dropped on concrete, in concrete, left outside for days, stayed in a truck in all kinds of temperatures...for years, in a shed, etc etc.
That's why they are still popular amongst the masses. It still turns on every time. 
Lately mag seems to have entered the new millenium with some new stuff. But for me, I'll stick with the old faithful type and spend my dough for fancy lights on brands that specialize in fancy lights.

Now that Ima cpf member part of my lurkage is how to upgrade the mag, while learning about all those fancy lights folks around here swear by. 

It would be great if mag lite made watches.


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## hyperloop (Aug 19, 2015)

I do not hate Maglites, there's a 3D model which I bought in 1997 that is working fine, just changed the halogen bulb to a drop in LED and its ok, my ArmyTek A1 is probably brighter but to check out bumps in the night, Maglite here I come


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## LeafSamurai (Aug 19, 2015)

I think Maglite have improved considerably since this thread was first started in 2003 (12 years ago if anyone is counting!). A quick visit to their official website shows a few new modern flashlights that I won't mind owning and would buy if it wasn't for the price in USD.


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## Search (Aug 19, 2015)

Someone worked hard to find this thread from 03. I'm seriously impressed.

There is a reason why Maglite used to be type as "[email protected]" on these forums.. search for that to find out something interesting


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## Rafael Jimenez (Aug 19, 2015)

I've been using the big magcharger for many years. Only problem is the switch went bad. They fixed it for free and installed a new electronic switch. I called a few days ago to order the rubber seal that protects the switch, they sent 3 for free and they paid shipping. I install led dropins, I use a terralux but am going to switch to Malkoff.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 20, 2015)

Lack of official support of Lithium Primaries in there AA / AAA lights. ( Except MagTac obviously ).

To bad I don't have a battery to put in it.


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## Search (Aug 20, 2015)

Search said:


> Someone worked hard to find this thread from 03. I'm seriously impressed.
> 
> There is a reason why Maglite used to be type as "[email protected]" on these forums.. search for that to find out something interesting



http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?228704-Why-is-a-maglite-called-a-m-g-around-here


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## insanefred (Aug 20, 2015)

Nice necropost you guys, this thread is almost 13 years old!


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## novice (Aug 20, 2015)

"Necropost". I'm going to remember that one!

On a more sympathetic note, they have a strong chassis, and offer a certain versatility in modding. I think I have five; two have Malkoff drop-ins, and three were hot-wire mods. Those three were not necessarily terribly practical, but they were fun at the time. One of them has the Fivemega adapter socket to allow the use of common MR16 bulbs, which come in a wide variety of flavors. I just wish high-quality rechargeable D-cell-sized Li-ions were more common.


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## broadgage (Aug 20, 2015)

insanefred said:


> Nice necropost you guys, this thread is almost 13 years old!



Indeed, but worth reading from the beginning IMHO so see how much has changed, and what has not changed. I rather like the big old maglights but accept that I am probably in a minority regarding this.
The main change since this thread was new is the ready availability of affordable and really bright LED drop in bulbs, including at least one multi mode LED bulb. I refer here to simple drop in bulbs, not to modifications that require any skill.


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## DesertNightOwl (Aug 20, 2015)

A guy just gave me this old 3D Maglite the other day because it was "broken," turns out the bulb had just burned out and still had the original replacement bulb in the tail cap. Works good as new now. I also have Maglite mini 2 AAs in every room in my house on Maglite wall clips. Love Maglite and their products, quality is there and I never got into the politics of flashlight manufacturers.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 20, 2015)

LeafSamurai said:


> I think Maglite have improved considerably since this thread was first started in 2003 (12 years ago if anyone is counting!). A quick visit to their official website shows a few new modern flashlights that I won't mind owning and would buy if it wasn't for the price in USD.



Yes, they have improved over the past 12 years. But so has every other serious flashlight maker, and those have improved even _more_. [email protected] is still 5-10 years behind the curve, and they charge way too much for outdated lights.


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## DesertNightOwl (Aug 20, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yes, they have improved over the past 12 years. But so has every other serious flashlight maker, and those have improved even _more_. [email protected] is still 5-10 years behind the curve, and they charge way too much for outdated lights.




Maglite really isn't much more expensive than most China made lights. They Magtac rechargeable is 80$ on Amazon compared to three olight S20R for 70$, more than worth the extra 10$ for the made in USA logo imo.


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## P_A_S_1 (Aug 20, 2015)

I like Maglites, I find their C/D cell lights are super reliable as some of mine are quite old and work fine. They're good 'beaters' especially if you catch them on sale or clearance. I like their AA models too but find they are not as reliable over the long term as they get a little finicky sometimes. I actually reach for a AA Mag over my better lights for certain applications where the potential for lose is great such as kayaking. Dropping/losing a Mag in the river is a lot better then losing an HDS or Malkoff.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 20, 2015)

DesertNightOwl said:


> Maglite really isn't much more expensive than most China made lights. They Magtac rechargeable is 80$ on Amazon compared to three olight S20R for 70$, more than worth the extra 10$ for the made in USA logo imo.



Yeah, false economics to buy just because it has a USA logo. All you're doing is encouraging US companies to be unproductive. If you buy a Chinese light for cheaper, those US$ you pay the Chinese _have _to come back to the US eventually to buy a product or service you're actually good at. It's a win-win: you get a cheaper product, and your money comes back to buy a US product that is also competitive.

Free trade is always better for everyone, in the long-run. Sure, it hurts the dying, unproductive companies in the short term, but they're going to eventually die anyway.



P_A_S_1 said:


> I like Maglites, I find their C/D cell lights are super reliable as some of mine are quite old and work fine. They're good 'beaters' especially if you catch them on sale or clearance. I like their AA models too but find they are not as reliable over the long term as they get a little finicky sometimes. I actually reach for a AA Mag over my better lights for certain applications where the potential for lose is great such as kayaking. Dropping/losing a Mag in the river is a lot better then losing an HDS or Malkoff.



Yes, I actually like their old C and D lights. They are tough, and reliable. Their AA lights have been crap.


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## DesertNightOwl (Aug 20, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Yeah, false economics to buy just because it has a USA logo. All you're doing is encouraging US companies to be unproductive. If you buy a Chinese light for cheaper, those US$ you pay the Chinese _have _to come back to the US eventually to buy a product or service you're actually good at. It's a win-win: you get a cheaper product, and your money comes back to buy a US product that is also competitive.



The Chinese lights like thrunite and olight cost about the same or more than most of the Maglite products I'm seeing. And a 10$ difference hardly covers the cost Maglite pays to operate in over regulated California. 

As to free trade bringing the money back you may want to look at the trade gap, our exports are a small fraction of the imports because American companies do not even try to be competitive they just ship production overseas. If it's not worth it you that's fine most people don't care but the trade is unbalanced so I buy American when the price is similar our the quality is greater.


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## maglite mike (Aug 20, 2015)

Chinese lights are crap...Give me a maglite. If I want to pay for a premium light I'll get a surefire but I haven't found a need yet.


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## WarRaven (Aug 20, 2015)

lol moderation will be needed soon.☺


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## pvsampson (Aug 20, 2015)

DesertNightOwl said:


> Maglite really isn't much more expensive than most China made lights. They Magtac rechargeable is 80$ on Amazon compared to three olight S20R for 70$, more than worth the extra 10$ for the made in USA logo imo.



Here they @re very expensive [email protected]@tively. M2X UT @ $129.95 (online) vs 3d cell @$144.([email protected] [email protected] store) 

Guess which one I bought? Guess which one is the better thrower,@nd lighter to [email protected],@nd has [email protected] output/better UI?

I ordered a [email protected] dropin for my old [email protected] [email protected] will do @ [email protected] better job [email protected] the price of @ new model.They @re too [email protected] behind these [email protected]


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## MidnightDistortions (Aug 20, 2015)

How many of these topics are there? lol, this one was dug up from a grave.

I like using my LED 2D Mags as candles.


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## WarRaven (Aug 20, 2015)

What a bargain.😲


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## magellan (Aug 21, 2015)

A 12-year gap but now going strong!


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## pvsampson (Aug 21, 2015)

M2X UT is actually not a bad price with conversion.Equals $95.03 USD atm.


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## Jash (Aug 21, 2015)

Maglites have their place in a flashlight collection. I've got a few that are modified with various drop ins from Terralux, Malkoff and Mac's Customs. They are nothing compared to what you can get out of a single 18650 these days, but are easy to use and robust lights that anyone can use (no fiddly modes or UI's to worry about).


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## AVService (Aug 21, 2015)

Has anyone here that is commenting right now even tried any of the current C or D cell Maglites?
Any?

Yes it took a long time for them to get going again but these are not the same Mag as when this thread was created.
Yes yo can still buy the original versions in stores EVERYWHERE and it can be tough to discern the old from the new at times too but mainly because Mag is still sold EVERYWHERE and last virtually FOREVER too!

Now the versions made at that time likely still work too but they are not comparable aside from looking similar to the current versions.

Also I don't own too many lights that will deliver runtime anywhere near the bigger new Mag and with batteries I can get anywhere too.

Try before Hating.


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## pvsampson (Aug 21, 2015)

AVService said:


> Has anyone here that is commenting right now even tried any of the current C or D cell Maglites?



Yes.Exactly why I didn't buy one,and decided on a Malkoff dropin for my old one.They are nowhere near good enough for what I wanted,for the outrageous expense.


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## Tooly (Aug 21, 2015)

Wife has a mini mag....the other day she used it to look behind the tv, and said......
DAMN, this light sucks!!!! I was proud of her...


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## AVService (Aug 21, 2015)

pvsampson said:


> Yes.Exactly why I didn't buy one,and decided on a Malkoff dropin for my old one.They are nowhere near good enough for what I wanted,for the outrageous expense.



OK so your reply is confusing to me?
Yes you tried them but still think they are overpriced?

So the answer is no?
You are making comments about a light you actually have not even tried.
Unbelievable.

I guess this says more about the reason people Mag them more than anything else ever could.


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## Jash (Aug 21, 2015)

Make of this what you will. I prefer my lights IP-X8 with flat regulation for the higher modes.


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## reppans (Aug 21, 2015)

Jash said:


> Make of this what you will. I prefer my lights IP-X8 with flat regulation for the higher modes.



Here you go Jash.... perfectly flat "ANSI" regulation on Max


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## Jash (Aug 21, 2015)

Haha reppans! That's funny right there. When I first bought my TK60 and TK41, I put the TK60 on turbo for an hour and a half and then compared it to the TK41 on turbo at turn on. There was no noticeable difference. 

I've since gifted the large, 4xD cell light to my sister in law because she needed a decent light that ran off D cells (she could get them for free through a friend).


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## Jash (Aug 21, 2015)

Just gotta say though, one of my favourite lights is a 2D Mag with a Malkoff drop in running on two Panasonic 18650's. It's clipped to the inside of my bed side table cupboard door.


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## pvsampson (Aug 21, 2015)

AVService said:


> So the answer is no?
> You are making comments about a light you actually have not even tried.
> Unbelievable.
> 
> I guess this says more about the reason people Mag them more than anything else ever could.



I answered yes.I did try the C and the D.They are a good product but the price led me to decide against.


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## KeepingItLight (Aug 21, 2015)

Tooly said:


> Wife has a mini mag....the other day she used it to look behind the TV, and said......
> DAMN, this light sucks!!!! I was proud of her...


Lol!


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## AVService (Aug 21, 2015)

pvsampson said:


> I answered yes.I did try the C and the D.They are a good product but the price led me to decide against.


If I misunderstood you I apologize.
At least you actually did try them first?

And you thought $40 or $50 was "outrageous" for them?


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## bykfixer (Aug 21, 2015)

Geez, didn't mean to get a whole new debate going, but searching is fun. 
Being new and all it's pretty amazing to read the wealth of info laying around under all the dust.

This place has a great search feature. And I dig on the history of forums. Resurecting old threads kinda shows 'the more things change, the more they stay the same' type thing. So why not this one, right? Seems the feelings about the mag is about the same as back when this thread began.

Now as far as free trade goes????


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## rishabharies (Aug 21, 2015)

I have a 2AA cell mag which I have never found a use for (it was a gift when i bought my car). My Streamlight stylus, on the other hand, is a lot brighter, uses batteries much more efficiently and fits nicely in my uniform or a shirt pocket. I like the wide/narrow focus beam but it's just not bright enough to go any distance what so ever.


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## pvsampson (Aug 21, 2015)

AVService said:


> If I misunderstood you I apologize.
> At least you actually did try them first?
> 
> And you thought $40 or $50 was "outrageous" for them?



No drama.

3xD cell LED is around $90 here online,can be had cheaper but that is average from what I can see.4xD at camping store $144.I already have one that is 10 years old,so when I looked I decided that a Malkoff dropin would be the better option for me,even coming all the way from the States.


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## AVService (Aug 21, 2015)

pvsampson said:


> No drama.
> 
> 3xD cell LED is around $90 here online,can be had cheaper but that is average from what I can see.4xD at camping store $144.I already have one that is 10 years old,so when I looked I decided that a Malkoff dropin would be the better option for me,even coming all the way from the States.


I can see that.
Here they are about $40 which makes one a much better deal for sure.
I don't think I would spring for one wherever you are either.

I like mine though for crazy long runtime at lower output and there is also something just reassuring about the form factor for me too!


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## PartyPete (Aug 21, 2015)

They make for a great self defense weapon. But so does a gun. :shrug:

I've had a few. Lost 2 during moves, and 1 died. It's just too big. Smaller lights do the same thing. For defense, I think there are better options.


----------



## ForrestChump (Aug 22, 2015)

AVService said:


> Has anyone here that is commenting right now even tried any of the current C or D cell Maglites?
> Any?
> 
> Yes it took a long time for them to get going again but these are not the same Mag as when this thread was created.
> ...



Excellent point.


----------



## Tooly (Aug 26, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> Lol!


----------



## more_vampires (Aug 27, 2015)

My girlfriend loves Maglites. She insists that it's the only brand of lights she owns, so I have to give her only maglites. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Modding-my-girlfriend-s-Maglites!-Suggestions

Not everyone hates mag. She even prefers their incans!


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 30, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> My girlfriend loves Maglites. She insists that it's the only brand of lights she owns, so I have to give her only maglites.



She must be incredibly good-looking, not to dump her.


----------



## InvisibleFrodo (Aug 30, 2015)

I love my 2AA MiniMag incandescent. I feel like I've come full circle and I even appreciate how the beam looks like an iris. However, I have a 2AA MiniMag LED that I carry at work that I've wanted to smash more times than I can remember. Glitchy, twitchy, and absolutely unable to cope with any vibration.


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## P_A_S_1 (Aug 30, 2015)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> I love my 2AA MiniMag incandescent. I feel like I've come full circle and I even appreciate how the beam looks like an iris. However, I have a 2AA MiniMag LED that I carry at work that I've wanted to smash more times than I can remember. Glitchy, twitchy, and absolutely unable to cope with any vibration.




I have one AA mag led. Once the batteries get weak the light flickers, voltage issue I'm thinking. It was one of the early models so IDK if they improved/corrected it since but if the light just went into a direct drive it would be so much better. The incandescent AA mags were good in that aspect.


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## Woods Walker (Aug 30, 2015)

1-09-2003 to 8-18-2015. Is that a world record necro? One of the oldest I have seen.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 30, 2015)

Woods Walker said:


> 1-09-2003 to 8-18-2015. Is that a world record necro? One of the oldest I have seen.



Yup, people have hated [email protected] for that long!


----------



## bykfixer (Aug 31, 2015)

Woods Walker said:


> 1-09-2003 to 8-18-2015. Is that a world record necro? One of the oldest I have seen.



The idea was to re-ignite an old dialog and see how things may or may not have changed opinion wise.


----------



## P_A_S_1 (Sep 2, 2015)

I actually have two AA mags (led) on the way from Maglite. Sent them two old lights that weren't working (one incandescent & one led) to see if they could be repaired or covered under warranty. They couldn't and weren't covered but offered two new lights at factory cost, $14 a light, not bad. I'll see if they're better then the last one.


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## torchsarecool (Sep 2, 2015)

I just acquired a 1982 7c mag.not massively relevant I just wanted to tell somebody cos I am CHUFFED!!! My wife doesn't care


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

7 c batteries!? Weird!


----------



## RedLED (Sep 2, 2015)

The 7 cell C, and there was a D cell too... I think, I think so don't hold me to it, as the were banned in California as a baton, and you can't own batons in California, I think it is a felony to own a baton. Again I forget the large cell issues but something took place over them. 

But, it becomes weary and depressing to keep up with the 1000 laws a year passed in California, yes 1000 brand new laws for you! So I have kind have given up on what they pass anymore, I find it easier to just think everything is illegal rather than worry what I can do, say, and where, I be, what I can own and if SWAT is going to kick my door down for an unpaid parking ticket.

And, I hate companies that abuse the legal system for their profit margins. Or to get rid of competitors.


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## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

RedLed said:


> and you can't own batons in California, I think it is a felony to own a baton. Again I forget the large cell issues but something took place over them.


 Time to start arresting LEO left and right, then! 



RedLed said:


> And, I hate companies that abuse the legal system for their profit margins. Or to get rid of competitors.


Both SF and Mag have flexed their attack lawyers before. There is a fine line between ethical defense of patents and trademarks versus sleazing Pentagonlight out of the market.

I think no large company can be innocent, something about the nature of big business. I trust a small house maker named Joe that I met on CPF way more than a corporation. He's not going to sue everyone.


----------



## RedLED (Sep 2, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Time to start arresting LEO left and right, then!
> 
> 
> Both SF and Mag have flexed their attack lawyers before. There is a fine line between ethical defense of patents and trademarks versus sleazing Pentagonlight out of the market.
> ...


This is one reason, I am shifting away from corporations and stuck the custom needle in my arm, it is just easier. This includes custom parts too like dropins. All I have from SF anymore are the bodies as hosts.

And, yes Pentagonlight did deserve to be put out of business. You know, they may even send a letter to stop what you are doing before a suit is filed, and I wonder if these people just toss the letter out. Also, I liked it better when the patents had reasonable limitations for the inventors to make their money and everyone was free to use it.

In Japan, many of the motorcycles look all, the same as it is a form of flattery or a compliment to copy another companies idea. Not in all cases, however, when I studied Japanese business practices in college, and this was a while ago and I don't know if the same practices apply. However, the companies all made money. 

My photographs have a 75 year copyright on them, and then my family inherits it for, I think another 50 years. I find this just wrong.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight (Sep 2, 2015)

Original patent laws in the US were developed in order to encourage innovation and thus benefit society as a whole. But over time, they have evolved to be the exact opposite: stifle innovation, and benefit only the companies (often patent trolls), at the expense of society.

This is what happens when the politicians are bought by companies in order to get election financing.


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 2, 2015)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Original patent laws in the US were developed in order to encourage innovation and thus benefit society as a whole. But over time, they have evolved to be the exact opposite: stifle innovation, and benefit only the companies (often patent trolls), at the expense of society.
> 
> This is what happens when the politicians are bought by companies in order to get election financing.


That's *exactly* what the situation is with US copyright law is for movies, books, and music. It all went south when Disney corp hired Bob Dylan to help confuse and buy congress. 

We need some protection so the actual creators (not a corporation) can pay for the creation process, but corporations are not citizens and should not have the same rights.

We all know corps go way too far, they want money.


----------



## novice (Sep 2, 2015)

torchsarecool said:


> I just acquired a 1982 7c mag.not massively relevant I just wanted to tell somebody cos I am CHUFFED!!!



In an attempt to avoid a mod intervention; I would definitely be chuffed if I found a 7c [email protected]! I wonder how many 26650 cells would comfortably fit in there...


----------



## RedLED (Sep 3, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> That's *exactly* what the situation is with US copyright law is for movies, books, and music. It all went south when Disney corp hired Bob Dylan to help confuse and buy congress.
> 
> We need some protection so the actual creators (not a corporation) can pay for the creation process, but corporations are not citizens and should not have the same rights.
> 
> We all know corps go way too far, they want money.


The music, more accurately, the recording industry, RIAA, had a lot to do with this after the collapse they suffered from Napster.

Family's of deceased musicians can make fortunes for decades by not letting anyone use the music without licensing the work. The Hendrix family, of the late guitar player, Jimi Hendrix (sic), guards his work to almost insane standards. 

I don't have an opinion on Hendrix as a musician, I learned this thru a book.


----------



## RedLED (Sep 3, 2015)

novice said:


> In an attempt to avoid a mod intervention; I would definitely be chuffed if I found a 7c [email protected]! I wonder how many 26650 cells would comfortably fit in there...



What is the definition of Chuffed? I wish everyone would list where they are located, as I feel it is non us regional slang, and I could be wrong.


----------



## bykfixer (Sep 3, 2015)

US regional could be "stoked" in California, or "psyched" in Florida, perhaps "jazzed" in Arizona and in Boston, "thrilled". Don't think this site allows the ebonics/gangsta term...but it would look something like this "****".


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 3, 2015)

RedLed said:


> What is the definition of Chuffed? I wish everyone would list where they are located, as I feel it is non us regional slang, and I could be wrong.


Sort of like getting "crunk," except you don't have to drink anything.


----------



## JerryM (Sep 4, 2015)

I have a 3C Mag-lite that I bought over 20 years ago. I put a LED bulb in it, and it is great. If I wanted C or D size the Mag Lite would be my choice. I never paid any attention to the "rocks" thrown at them. I let the lawyers worry about the law suits, etc.
I would not part with mine. It is my bedside light.
Jerry


----------



## Jash (Sep 8, 2015)

pvsampson said:


> No drama.
> 
> 3xD cell LED is around $90 here online,can be had cheaper but that is average from what I can see.4xD at camping store $144.I already have one that is 10 years old,so when I looked I decided that a Malkoff dropin would be the better option for me,even coming all the way from the States.




Bunnings sell them for $37 when they're in stock, which is once or twice a year at my local Bunnings. The most recent crop is dark silver. Nearly bought one, but I've already got two in black.

An older Maglite with a Malkoff drop in is still a better light.


----------



## Rick NJ (Sep 8, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> That's *exactly* what the situation is with US copyright law is for movies, books, and music. It all went south when Disney corp hired Bob Dylan to help confuse and buy congress.
> 
> We need some protection so the actual creators (not a corporation) can pay for the creation process, but corporations are not citizens and should not have the same rights.
> 
> We all know corps go way too far, they want money.


more_vampires,

You are confusing me. If I have the right as an individual, why is it that you want me to loose that once when I join force with others. In fact, you are expecting every one who joined force to loose their rights.

Corporations are citizens who joined force (financially) to accomplish a goal. Your suggestion is that for these citizens to work as group, they must loose their rights they had when they worked as unaffiliated individuals. That makes no sense to me.


----------



## ronniepudding (Sep 8, 2015)

I found a good repurpose for the handful of 2xAA Minimag incans I had lying around unused... They make good battery cases 

Instead of using Powerpax AA cases for L91 cells in the car or when camping, I just put a couple of cells in a Maglite and pull out the bulb. With the bulb removed, no current will draw even if the head comes loose. Or, if that seems too drastic, a piece of electrical tape between the batteries should accomplish the same thing.

It's a 'free' solution that's water-resistant, easier on the batteries' wrappers than the Powerpax cases are -- and in a pinch I can take the spare bulb out of the tail cap and turn my battery caddy into a flashlight... albeit a crappy one


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 10, 2015)

Rick NJ said:


> more_vampires,
> 
> You are confusing me. If I have the right as an individual, why is it that you want me to loose that once when I join force with others. In fact, you are expecting every one who joined force to loose their rights.


Sorry for the OT, but infinite copyright and trademark extensions would be counter to the original intent of such things to *promote creativity.

*Derivative works are important for that, as well as innovation. You're not supposed to win in the market place by lawyers alone. Businesses must innovate or die, infinite extensions promote a lack of innovation.


----------



## Rick NJ (Sep 10, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Sorry for the OT, but infinite copyright and trademark extensions would be counter to the original intent of such things to *promote creativity.
> 
> *Derivative works are important for that, as well as innovation. You're not supposed to win in the market place by lawyers alone. Businesses must innovate or die, infinite extensions promote a lack of innovation.



Yeah, this is a little off track, but some dislikes MagLite because of exactly this issue. I am attempting to clarify/understand the proposed "cure."

I agree with your entire reply quote above 100%. But "infinite copyright...win in the market place by lawyers alone... etc" should not matter whether it is a person individual or if that person joined force with other persons. It is bad either way. So you still have not explain why a group of persons joining force should loose their rights once they joined force.

Perhaps instead of corporation is general, you are thinking those companies set up explicitly and only for patent trolling? That, I understand (understand!=agree; but that I at least understand).


----------



## more_vampires (Sep 10, 2015)

Yes Rick, a "shell" corporation is very bad. It's pretty much a precursor to patent trolling. It's also an attempt to conceal the true perpetrators of abusive lawsuits. Corporations can "get another face" with a shell company; you and I cannot get new identities (shell identities) legally afaik.

Mag and Surefire both have lawyered smaller light companies out of business. It recently happened to Foursevens! They managed not to go under and came back from the lawsuit and settlement. Not good, in my opinion.

A good light is a good light and will do well on the market. Lawyer fights are shady, though I understand the need to defend a patent.

The way corporations work needs to be fixed. Patent trolling is possible due to a flawed system, we just don't have it right yet. Unfortunately, the big boys (such as Maglite) simply have the lawyer muscle to squash smaller competitors. This is pretty anti-competitive if you ask me. If I'm a small house flashlight company with me and my girlfriend and I got sued by Maglite for some patent that I didn't even know about, I couldn't fight Mag! I'd never win, they have all the money and lawyers. They could do something extremely shady like filing against me in all 50 states at the same time.

No individual can defend against that unless they're a multi-millionaire and I'm not.

It isn't Maglite's fault and Surefire's fault that some of the things they do are legal, I don't have to like it though.

Our system is broke, it needs fixing.


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## FRITZHID (Sep 10, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Our system is broke, it needs fixing.



Hear hear!


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Sep 11, 2015)

A lost of conjecturing here and OT comments. Let's back off with the flaming and unsubstantiated comments. Thread started in 2003, and many comments then were based on the flashlight itself. It was resurrected in 2015 and it just went to pot.

Bill



more_vampires said:


> That's *exactly* what the situation is with US copyright law is for movies, books, and music. It all went south when Disney corp hired Bob Dylan to help confuse and buy congress.
> 
> We need some protection so the actual creators (not a corporation) can pay for the creation process, but corporations are not citizens and should not have the same rights.
> 
> We all know corps go way too far, they want money.


----------



## P_A_S_1 (Sep 20, 2015)

Got my two new mini mags from mag, so far not bad. I posted a bit about them here (post #92). 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ite-Mini-Pro-272-lumens&p=4739756#post4739756


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## kjd2121 (Sep 22, 2015)

I have two mini mags and they seem to work just fine. Not used much since the Fenix PD 35, but are stored in the glove boxes now


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## bykfixer (Sep 22, 2015)

Mag Lites are great for give aways. 

Not very expensive, pretty reliable, and nearly anyone can figure out how to use them. Readily available as well. 

When I showed my family my slide heads they kept twisting the head, thinking to focus a beam requires a twist...none owned mags at that time.
Gotta be something to that.


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## Dr. Tweedbucket (Oct 3, 2015)

don't hate em. In fact, those are the only flashlites I have until later this week when my Fenix show up. 

:rock::touche::rock::rock::rock::touche::touche:I


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## Charlie Fox (Oct 4, 2015)

I think part of the reason they may not get as much love is they haven't been really quick to embrace where the market went. When I was coming up the MagCharger was THE duty flashlight and everyone had a MiniMag in their pocket, bag or on their belt. But as new technology appeared, they didn't move with the current (HA, electricity joke!) and soon they had to play serious catch-up as they were left in the dust. Mag Industries today still hasn't really caught up, but they're still breathing.


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## bykfixer (Oct 4, 2015)

^^ true..very true

To me Mag Lite is like a classic rock radio station. 

They play the same old tunes year after year. Those of us who are "enlightened" wonder how many times those Fleetwood Mac tunes can be played before enough is enough....

But when you go to get your oil changed or annual inspection chances are a classic rock station is playing in the back ground. If you go to a glass shop to get a window fixed...same thing....bicycle shop, auto parts store, at the office somebody has classic rock playing.

Chances are those folks like the good ole Mag Lite just the way it is.

Most of the guys n gals I went to high school with still hang out at so n so's on Friday night with the same ole crowd, playing horse shoes n smoking reefer like it's still 1981...
and they get all whipped into a frenzy when John Mellancamp comes on the radio (again)...
and if I were to join their little time warp session I'd bet 9 of 10 still use Mag Lites with Alkaline batteries...many from 1983. lol

How can you hate that?


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## Dr. Tweedbucket (Oct 5, 2015)

I don't hate em. As stated above, they were one of the first really nice quality lights... the pioneers if you will. Why everyone bashes them? .... I don't know. I still have my originals and geez, I guess I was collecting flashlights without even knowing it.... I must have 10 Maglites of different sizes and colors..... all incandescent. They are still superior to much of the Chinese junk on the market in my opinion.


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## CelticCross74 (Oct 6, 2015)

I must have a dozen modified D cell [email protected] including all 3 Malkoff drop ins. [email protected] even the 131 lumen last Gen LED 3D cell was totally acceptable as a good quality reliable light that had one thing all those other cheap 100 or so lumen lights on the Wal Mart wall dont have and that is THROW and lots of it I mean come on 375+ yards with a 131 lumens is pretty impressive and the run time is forever. Hell I think the 3rd Gen D cell [email protected] are some of the best lights of 2015 they are a stunning value now really $50 for 600+ XML2 lumens that throws 400 yards? I bought them as soon as I could put glare coated glass in them and 11000mah Powerex NiMH D's and you know what my favorite is actually the 3rd Gen 2D. It is more than bright enough at 525 lumens and it and the 3D throw roughly the same the 2D just feels much more balanced in hand


----------



## Rafael Jimenez (Oct 6, 2015)

I've had a magcharger since 1995. I upgraded with a led, a cheap one by terralux, but soon I will get the Malkoff led for it. Any tine something goes wrong or wears out, I get it fixed for free, I even get the rubber switch seals free when they wear out. I mail the light to the factory in California and they send it back in a couple of weeks, they even pay the return postage!.

I don't use the other model because I don't like to buy primary batteries. 

The Magcharger works great and will last for ever, plus free repairs and parts.


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## bykfixer (Oct 6, 2015)

I went on a thrower binge this summer. 
I had found the light I wanted to use on the night shift at work but stopped at one of the big box stores on the way to work one afternoon. 

Thinking black Coast HP7 (since my wife swiped my silver one)..I see a display of Mag D size and thought my pops mag from the 80's sure is nice. 

They had a 2D in pewter... $25 so I grabbed it. Then I noticed for $10 more the 'pro' model was LED. Had one in pewter...sold!

In the parking lot I slid in some duracells and focused the beam on the floor of my truck thinking pffft, 1000' my @$$. (A friend had told me his 6D shines at least 1000')

I aim it at a nearby car...nothing. But I noticed the license plates and taillights of nearby vehicles flickering as the light shined towards them. 

Keep in mind this is in daylight...like 3 hours before sundown. 
So I aimed it at cars across the 5 acre parking lot and got the same results. 
Hmmmm.

On the way to work I noticed it would illuminate overhead road signs in broad daylight. But how far?
As I drove the light was planted in one hand mode kinda outta sight so cops wouldn't see it if need be. And on the commute I was lighting up signs as far as I could see...in daylight! 

This winter when humidity is low I'll do a throw test. But a quarter mile wouldn't surprise me. 




^^ This was a fairly well lit area on a july night.The steeple was around 900-1000' away.

$35, USA made, lifetime warranty, good battery life, fool proof operation...
How can anybody hate that?


----------



## CelticCross74 (Oct 6, 2015)

I hated my 274 lumen Pro model 2D M*g because it had a harsh purple tint. Bright though and threw like crazy. Gave it to my older sister. My 4D incan that was my very first step into flashaholism back in 1996 and sat in a closet for 15 years got the 700+ lumen Malkoff XML2 drop in as well as a OP aluminum camless reflector, AR coated glass and 4 11000mah Powerex D's. Its very bright and throws the widest beam profile out of my entire collection of 45ish lights. It also maintains output for hours before it regulates and when it does drop its barely noticeable.


----------



## Rafael Jimenez (Nov 19, 2015)

I love my old magcharger, especially with the Malkoff led drop in.


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## bykfixer (Nov 22, 2015)

My latest mini incan came with a spare battery in the cap and 2 in a package. $7.99.


I had a busted pewter one laying around. The bezel looks right sporty on the black body. 
The pewter one in the photo is like 20 years old.


----------



## xxl1 (Nov 23, 2015)

I am okay with my mad 6ds nice light


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## bykfixer (Nov 27, 2015)

2 D incan gets a Nite Ize.
27 lumens to 55 baby!!!


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## magellan (Nov 27, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> Yes Rick, a "shell" corporation is very bad. It's pretty much a precursor to patent trolling. It's also an attempt to conceal the true perpetrators of abusive lawsuits. Corporations can "get another face" with a shell company; you and I cannot get new identities (shell identities) legally afaik.
> 
> Mag and Surefire both have lawyered smaller light companies out of business. It recently happened to Foursevens! They managed not to go under and came back from the lawsuit and settlement. Not good, in my opinion.
> 
> ...



Great summary and I agree.

Yeah, in its heyday America became rich and powerful by enabling the new and innovative.

Now it is fading by protecting the mediocre and obsolete. ;-(

Actually, I don't even care if my Maglites light up. It's not their strong suit. I bought them for the purdy colors. 
.



.



.



.



.



.



.



.


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## keithhr (Nov 27, 2015)

I didn't have the courage to read the whole thread, but I was around back in the beginning when Mag tried to level the playing field by literally suing everyone that had a flashlight with a round head. They haven't done anything innovativein the last 50 plus years and I just saw a commercial of a mag spokesperson touting their amazing 600 lumen 3D mag lite. It was so silly I had to do a double take and rewatch it. Seriously, they took many, many companies down simple by filing legal action making some ridiculous claim against the company and knowing they could not be challenged financially. For many, many years, everyone knew that the main reason police used them was, th at it made a good club to hit somebody over the head with. When I was 22, pre 1970 that's what I had and why I had it, Inflammatory comment removed......Bill


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 27, 2015)

Posts 40 and 41 are responses to a post from a September post this year, and are redundant. Let's not get it started again. Enough said.

Bill


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Nov 27, 2015)

Magellan,

Have you sent any of your perdy mags to Vestureofblood for hotrodding? :naughty:

~ Chance


----------



## fivemega (Nov 27, 2015)

Bael said:


> Why does everyone hate mag lite?



*This statement is not true.
you can't even say Why does every CPF member hate mag lite?
Few years back, may members modify them enjoy them and show off. Now their love turned 180 degree and hate them?
Obviously by new technology of batteries and LEDs, you can get same brightness in smaller and easy to carry package than older Maglites but it doesn't mean they hate them. They just don't use them.
Many non flashlight forum members around the world still use standard incandescent Maglite.*


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 27, 2015)

Got me a blue 2D today and Nite Ized it.








Wall before Nite Ize'd



^^ after


Garage 500' away before Nite Ize'd







^^ after
Note the bush illuminated between the light and the garage is about 400' away.

That is a 55 lumen emmitter people, with a 2D reflector.

How can you hate that?

Doubles as a bat to the face when necessary or handy D cell carrier.
$20 + $8 upgrade.

Did feel a little slighted that what Mag calls a 3 mode switch is 'momentary, on and off'. Guess that makes my G2x Pro a 6 mode light?


----------



## magellan (Nov 27, 2015)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Magellan,
> 
> Have you sent any of your perdy mags to Vestureofblood for hotrodding? :naughty:
> 
> ~ Chance



Hi Chauncey, I haven't sent in any, but in the last year or so I did buy four of his customs. Three are cut down 2D 1x26650 lights with machined, finned heads in different colors (red, green, and blue), and one is his big 9 XM-L emitter 6x26650 5000 lumen monster. His lights are great fun for any Mag fan.
.



.


----------



## WalkIntoTheLight (Nov 28, 2015)

fivemega said:


> *This statement is not true.
> you can't even say Why does every CPF member hate mag lite?
> Few years back, may members modify them enjoy them and show off. Now their love turned 180 degree and hate them?
> Obviously by new technology of batteries and LEDs, you can get same brightness in smaller and easy to carry package than older Maglites but it doesn't mean they hate them. They just don't use them.
> Many non flashlight forum members around the world still use standard incandescent Maglite.*



Actually, their old incandescents aren't bad, for being incandescents. It's 20 year old tech, but that's pretty much where incandescent tech stopped. So, if you like incandescent lights, Mags are okay. I still occasionally use my 4D and 4C incan Mags. Zoomed in enough to get rid of the donut, they aren't bad.

The problem is with LED Mags. They suck. I have several, and yes, I do _hate _every one. Way behind everyone else, they flicker, they're dim, the UI is poor, bad tint, bad beam. Etc. Even their recent stuff is still 5 years behind everyone else. It's hateable.


----------



## maglite mike (Nov 28, 2015)

Can you list a few of the 3rd Gen led mags you own. I actually like the UI and feel of the mag tac more then some of the higher priced tactical lights. Also the new ml 300 and, ml 50 are great lights for the money.


WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Actually, their old incandescents aren't bad, for being incandescents. It's 20 year old tech, but that's pretty much where incandescent tech stopped. So, if you like incandescent lights, Mags are okay. I still occasionally use my 4D and 4C incan Mags. Zoomed in enough to get rid of the donut, they aren't bad.
> 
> The problem is with LED Mags. They suck. I have several, and yes, I do _hate _every one. Way behind everyone else, they flicker, they're dim, the UI is poor, bad tint, bad beam. Etc. Even their recent stuff is still 5 years behind everyone else. It's hateable.


----------



## Woods Walker (Nov 28, 2015)

I have some around. Like to pack at least one during group outings as inevitably someone does not have a flashlight or headlamp so give them a [email protected] I never ask for them back. Also never remember one failing other than broken incan bulbs and haven't used an incan [email protected] in years. For the money they're not so bad IMHO and seem to be getting better. Noticed some modern LEDs and respectable outputs in the newest ones. Almost tempted to buy another. There are some pros to owning gear you really don't care about.


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## apwoodr (Nov 29, 2015)

I don't have anything against Mag. They're great household lights. I've had a mini Mag since 1988 that I recently upgrade with the NiteIze kit. I've just kept it in the toolbox as an extra light. I also bought a 3D LED a few years ago for Black Friday at Lowes for only a few dollars. It was a great deal and I used it for working around the house until the cheap Ray O Vac batteries I used exploded inside and I couldn't get one of them out


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Nov 29, 2015)

magellan said:


> Hi Chauncey, I haven't sent in any, but in the last year or so I did buy four of his customs. Three are cut down 2D 1x26650 lights with machined, finned heads in different colors (red, green, and blue), and one is his big 9 XM-L emitter 6x26650 5000 lumen monster. His lights are great fun for any Mag fan.



There I go, .......... asking silly questions again.  I'm starting to believe your torch collection is unparalleled. 

~ Chance


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## Rick NJ (Nov 29, 2015)

bykfixer said:


> Got me a blue 2D today and Nite Ized it.
> ...
> [Photos excluded from quote]
> ...
> ...




I thought about the "Nite Izing" but even the cheap 18650 produce a lot more light at a lot less. The "Q5" class of cheapo is only around $4-5 shipped. So hence I begun my dive into 18650 flashlight...


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## etc (Nov 30, 2015)

these new minimags kick some rear end. I officially endorse them. they produce about as much light as Malkoff M60, the original, with a similiar beam profile (maybe just a bit more throw)


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## gnight (Nov 30, 2015)

I have got the XL200 and is very pleased with it, but that said, this is my first flashlight, and have not compared it with others.


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## bykfixer (Nov 30, 2015)

I got love for the incans

All Nite Ize'd or TerraLUX'd.




Nite-Ized 2D incans. 

Incan apperatus fits in the tail section with the bulb(s) for when I wanna see that wonderful orange beam (complete with hole in center)


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## InvisibleFrodo (Jan 18, 2018)

Anyone know what the approximate service life of the bulbs in say a 2D MagLite would be? Like in terms of hours. 10 hours? 24 hours? 100 hours? I feel like it isn't much. I was surprised by how fast my MiniMag AA went through a bulb. I bet it had less than 10 hours on itself.

Anyone know of a good warm white tinted drop in for a 2D MagLite? The Malkoff drop ins look great, but they seem to be available only in cool white. The whole reason I purchased a MagLite incandescent is for the nostalgia and the experience of using it.


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## GasganoFJ60 (Jan 19, 2018)

I'm not sure on hours but I'm sure shock/abuse has to be factored into that as well. Anytime I've had a MiniMag bulb fail has been from a hard drop while running. Even had a bulb in my very first MiniMag shatter from a fall. My 3D Mag from late 80's had it's bulb last about 20+ years. But it rode around in the truck a lot and only used in necessary situations. 
Have you heard of these?
http://maglite.com/shop/flashlights/specialty.html
I plan on ordering a warm MiniMag soon.


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## moodysj (Jan 19, 2018)

I only use the bodies (D size) for a host and mod my own. Good platform for that.


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## tokaji (Jan 19, 2018)

I do not hate Maglite, but I don't like LED AA MiniMag, but love AAA LED MiniMag. The reason is, all of my three AA maglites are flickering whatever I do to them, and my AAA minimag just works whatever I do to it.


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## LeanBurn (Jan 19, 2018)

**Once you replace the incan bulb with a drop-in the nostalgia is gone....as it is no longer authentic. You might as well use a factory made LED Maglite.**

My Maglite incan is for nostalgia with the perfect 100CRI and tint...it is all part of the experience. I only have about 4 spare bulbs, at $7/bulb it's all I want to afford to it. As a result, it gets use when I feel nostalgic.

I also have tried to find a definite service life-span in terms of hours for a simple incan 2D bulb and it is quite elusive. I have read anywhere from 8hrs to years. Perhaps duty cycle, shock and supplied power play more into how long a bulb lasts than anything else. For example if you had a 2D Mag and were to theoretically supply a constant 3V to the bulb without any shocks (drops or bumps) it could last 50 hours (or whatever). For every on/off cycle, ever decreasing voltage under 3V, every bump/drop that potential 50hrs drops by certain amounts. I suppose that is why lifespan varies so much.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Jan 19, 2018)

You think lower voltage would decrease the lifespan of the bulb? I was thinking the opposite. Information on dimmable xenon bulbs seems to show like few span increases when they aren't run at full brightness...

I was thinking maybe the higher voltage of the AAs under load as compared to AAAs under load might explain why the MiniMag AA had such short bulb life.
The AAA MiniMag gets 9 lumens, and the AA MiniMag gets 14 lumens, both using the exact same bulb. Perhaps the bulb life would be longer in a AAA MiniMag?


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## fivemega (Jan 19, 2018)

InvisibleFrodo said:


> Anyone know what the approximate service life of the bulbs in say a 2D MagLite would be?



*Answer is not that simple. It depends on type of bulb, amount of oxygen left after evacuation, pressure of Krypton gas, physical shape of filament, forwarded voltage/designed voltage, length of usage each time, ambient temperature and ...
Batteries don't have absolute and fix voltage during service life. It will start from highest then slowly drops to a point which replacing is necessary. So if every factor remain same, often replacing batteries will cause shorter bulb life because most of the time bulb runs on higher voltage.
Also type of batteries may have different voltage under certain load.
Manufacturer may give you some average bulb life but I wouldn't count on it. Remember, shock is highest killing factor of incandescent bulb specially while filament is hot.
If you want longer bulb life, use halogen bulb which has much more pressure gas and of course, higher price.*


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## sffar (Jan 20, 2018)

I recently upgraded my 2D Maglite with the Malkoff drop-in for a few reasons. It puts out decent light now, also more durable, a bit of nostallgia, hard to get rid of a perfectly usable tool and if D batteries happen to be all that’s available I’ve got a light that will use them. So I don’t hate the maglite, but in it’s original form I’d say it was not as reliable as a modern flashlight. Won’t get used as much as newer pocketable lights, but I like having it available. The beam focusing is also a nice feature.
Sam


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## eh4 (Jan 20, 2018)

I don't hate them, I just want regulation, more useful levels, better tints, better ergonomics, better waterproofing, better heat sinking, and better batteries. 
I do like that they kept the focusing head.


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## GasganoFJ60 (Jan 20, 2018)

In reference to more useful levels; what are your thoughts on the XL200?

I will totally agree with you better waterproofing. This your they did up it on the Solitaire and AAA MiniMag.


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## eh4 (Jan 20, 2018)

GasganoFJ60 said:


> In reference to more useful levels; what are your thoughts on the XL200?
> 
> I will totally agree with you better waterproofing. This your they did up it on the Solitaire and AAA MiniMag.



2.5 hours on high to 218 hours on low with ramping in between sounds great, so does the nightlight mode - dimming to off, very nice.
I'm glad to see them catching up, and innovating.

The next feature that I'd really like to see in a UI is something like 4 clicks, or click click click-hold, to swap between a programmable preset UI (like Zebralight MK IV) and an infinite ramping UI (Like Emisar's D4 V2 interface). 
Both of those are great, and offering them simultaneously in one light is as good as i can imagine currently.


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## fivemega (Jan 20, 2018)

eh4 said:


> I don't hate them, I just want regulation, more useful levels, better tints, better ergonomics, better waterproofing, better heat sinking, and better batteries.
> I do like that they kept the focusing head.



*And are you willing to pay for all those extras?
Are you willing to pay only $10 extra for regulation? (Which is impossible)
Are you willing to pay only $10 extra for more useful level? (Which is impossible)
Are you willing to pay only $10 extra for better tints? (Which is impossible)
Are you willing to pay only $10 extra for better ergonomics? (Which is impossible)
Are you willing to pay only $10 extra for better waterproofing? (Which is impossible)
Are you willing to pay only $10 extra for better heat sinking? (Which is impossible)
Are you willing to pay only $10 extra for better batteries? (Which is impossible)

Now you can figure what would be total cost. Do you think a carpenter or plumber would buy one for that price?
Most of their customers (millions around the world) never seen a 18650 battery and don't even know where to buy them while they can get AA, C or D size cells from every corner or even gas stations.
Yes, M*glite is not for everyone but is for many many people. Low cost, American made, reliable, available in many stores and easy to find batteries.*


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## eh4 (Jan 20, 2018)

"... Do you think ..."

Yeah I'd pay for it, actually I've been thinking of how to pull it off with a Dr. Jones driver and a D4 v2 driver in one light.

I understand your point, not everyone wants to pay for hobbyist lights, but you know you can see a 6D Maglite for a hundred bucks online at the same time.

lol, nevermind, just saw another one at 30.

MagLite ML300LX is more to my point, it looks like a nice light, at 70$ I'd like to have tint selection, a rechargeable 18650 or 26650 option, and better waterproofing... waterproofing and twist focus heads don't likely go well together.
Anyways, my point was that I don't hate them, but to the extent that they're a traditional product in a quickly evolving market like electronics, they aren't interesting to me.
The ML300LX is kind of interesting though, and so are their selected tint and color led models, if only there were an economical way to keep the batteries charged.


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## GasganoFJ60 (Jan 21, 2018)

The fullsize and MiniMags are their flagships and I doubt they'll make any drastic changes. I wish they'd up the waterproofing. I've often thought if they'd double up on the o-rings on the head it would help with that. 


I wish Mag would branch out a bit more and make more "hobby-ish" lights. They've dipped their toes in it with the MagTacs and XL series but I think if they really want to impress the people who frequent this site they need to go all out.


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## flphotog (Jan 21, 2018)

I don't hate them, I have a couple small ones and a large 3 D cell, I just don't consider them my primary lights anymore. For me there are just better options.


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## bykfixer (Jan 21, 2018)

With smaller lights available and just as bright the Maglite for many gets relegated to the glove box of an automobile or placed near the back door to check on Fido who has happened upon a smell and is reluctant to come back inside. 

Yet in colder weather many times the Maglite gets the call of duty for a dog walk, putting the trash out, or that type duty. The larger body tends to be easier to grasp with warm gloves and stiff fingers. And wearing a coat tends to provide storage for the light when not in use. 

Look around some time and take note of folks wearing Levis or Wrangler jeans, Converse All Stars, carries a Thermos brand thermos, etc etc... that is the target audience for Maglite.

Late last year at my work I was involved in a situation that led to late nite hours. It got dark about 5 pm. By 9pm most peoples flashlights had given out. A crew of pro's showed up about then and got things going in the right direction. Each one had a 3D Maglite LED. 

Those guys showed up in a 1/4 million dollar service truck with all the best stuff available to fix giant busted waterlines in dangerous situations and the boss had outfitted them with Maglite flashlights. One thing I noted was when they were through and had pulled off the muddy coveralls and rubber boots they removed the batteries from those flashlights as part of the routine of putting tools away.


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## NoNotAgain (Jan 21, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Those guys showed up in a 1/4 million dollar service truck with all the best stuff available to fix giant busted waterlines in dangerous situations and the boss had outfitted them with Maglite flashlights. One thing I noted was when they were through and had pulled off the muddy coveralls and rubber boots they removed the batteries from those flashlights as part of the routine of putting tools away.



I suspect that their purchasing guy gets a McMaster Carr or MSC catalog sent to them monthly. It's a no fuss, pick up the phone to order that shows up the next day. 

The battery removal is the experience of the technicians knowing that the alkaline batteries are going to puke leaving them stranded. 

The good and bad with Mag is that they use commonly available batteries, unlike purchasing primary lithium cells or rechargable batteries. The only rechargable system that works is the charging cradle that the light gets stored in. Otherwise the lights are dead when needed.


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## bykfixer (Jan 21, 2018)

NoNotAgain said:


> I suspect that their purchasing guy gets a McMaster Carr or MSC catalog sent to them monthly. It's a no fuss, pick up the phone to order that shows up the next day.
> 
> The battery removal is the experience of the technicians knowing that the alkaline batteries are going to puke leaving them stranded.
> 
> The good and bad with Mag is that they use commonly available batteries, unlike purchasing primary lithium cells or rechargable batteries. The only rechargable system that works is the charging cradle that the light gets stored in. Otherwise the lights are dead when needed.



The fellows I spoke of choose the tools they use. They don't just simply use stuff some purchasing clerk picks out. The drills, wrenches, lighting, screwdrivers, boots, coveralls, water pumps, you name it are chosen by professionals; each with decades of experience. That was why a problem that began at 8:30am and continued to worsen throughout the day and had the waterline contractor woefully in over his head... was solved in about 2 hours by those so-called government employees who are actually highly trained individuals with 2 things on their mind when they arrive. Get it done fast and get it done safely. 

When thousands of gallons of pressurized water is undermining a hillside or roadway there's no time to play around. And there's no time to swap out a rechargeable battery on a flashlight when dropping it or low voltage caused a protective circuit to trip. And when tasked with another dilema they start out with brand new batteries. The old ones are removed not because of potential leaks but because each time the light gets called into action it has brand new fuel cells.


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## eh4 (Jan 22, 2018)

As a reliable, semi disposable light for a fresh set of disposable batteries, with adjustable focus no less, I can definitely see the appeal.
30$ light with 4.50$ of fresh batteries inside, bring several, and a roll or two of duct tape.


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