# Ra Clicky Part 2



## seery (Jul 18, 2008)

I would gladly sacrifice a 5-10% loss in light transmission for the added
durability and/or scratch resistance that a sapphire lens would provide.


----------



## dcjs (Jul 18, 2008)

seery said:


> I would gladly sacrifice a 5-10% loss in light transmission for the added
> durability and/or scratch resistance that a sapphire lens would provide.



Most definitely!:thumbsup:


----------



## olrac (Jul 18, 2008)

dcjs said:


> Most definitely!:thumbsup:



not me!


----------



## Thujone (Jul 18, 2008)

With a removable bezel and the availability of cheap UCL lens I cant see a benifit of giving up 10-12% of my photons.


----------



## adamlau (Jul 18, 2008)

Sapphire lens all the way. As in I will wait on a Ra until it happens.


----------



## seery (Jul 18, 2008)

Thujone said:


> With a removable bezel and the availability of cheap UCL lens I cant see a benifit of giving up 10-12% of my photons.


Aren't we saying the same thing?

If Henry ships the Clicky's with a sapphire lens, you could replace it with a cheap UCL and everybody wins.


----------



## adamlau (Jul 18, 2008)

"In my opinion, the durability and scratch resistance of the sapphire is worth the loss in light transmission it entails relative to a very clear window that is much more prone to breakage and scratching. I prefer a known and factored in loss to one of a potentially catastrophic nature" (McLeish).

McLeish, Don. "Reason(s) for single-sided AR coatings?" Online posting. 7 Jul. 2008. CandlePowerForums > Custom & Modified > CPF Custom Builders and Modders > McGizmo. 18 Jul. 2008 <https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2548013>.​


----------



## ElectronGuru (Jul 19, 2008)

Original thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198540


----------



## Haz (Jul 20, 2008)

Can the led be replaced or upgraded easily in this light?


----------



## Thujone (Jul 20, 2008)

seery said:


> Aren't we saying the same thing?
> 
> If Henry ships the Clicky's with a sapphire lens, you could replace it with a cheap UCL and everybody wins.




More or less, only difference being that one way the light will cost more and deliver less out of the box...


----------



## Thujone (Jul 20, 2008)

adamlau said:


> "In my opinion, the durability and scratch resistance of the sapphire is worth the loss in light transmission it entails relative to a very clear window that is much more prone to breakage and scratching. I prefer a known and factored in loss to one of a potentially catastrophic nature" (McLeish).
> McLeish, Don. "Reason(s) for single-sided AR coatings?" Online posting. 7 Jul. 2008. CandlePowerForums > Custom & Modified > CPF Custom Builders and Modders > McGizmo. 18 Jul. 2008 <https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2548013>.​




I don't recall hearing about a single failed Novatac lens.


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 22, 2008)

Ok, were so very close to AUGUST :twothumbs

Any chance of a picture yet Henry ???
Is August going to be the true release month??

My B-Day is August 12th, hoping to snag one as a present to myself :naughty:


----------



## senna94 (Jul 22, 2008)

+1 August 17th!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## adamlau (Jul 22, 2008)

Guys: Give the man some time to grind some sapphire lenses  .


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 23, 2008)

My B42XRGT (Seoul'd) has been waiting for a partner for a very long time.
Here she is on vacation all alone in Puerto Rico's El Yunque Rain Forest...
Roughly 4,000 feet above Sea level.

Come on Henry, your breaking her HEART


----------



## tempman (Jul 23, 2008)

He also needs time to polish the titanium, engrave customers initials of all the pre-ordered, and even more time to install bluetooth technology for hands free commands.


----------



## Bronco (Jul 23, 2008)

tempman said:


> He also needs time...to install bluetooth technology for hands free commands.



Oh darn. I thought he was incorporating voice recognition software? 

"Clicky, 100 lumens, engage!"


----------



## dixemon (Jul 23, 2008)

Hey Kid, Nice light :mecry:


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 23, 2008)

LOL Dixemon 

I was just getting ready to send you a link to this thread.

Yes folks, this little beauty once belonged to Dixemon.
He modded it with Seoul as well.

I was very fortunate because this was the most nicest and cleanest HDS mod I have ever seen in all my time at CPF. And I have seen MANY.

Thanks Again Dixemon :thumbsup:


----------



## Buffalohump (Jul 23, 2008)

Awesome pic... mine is still stock standard. I'm such a weiner but I don't want to take the risk of shipping her overseas again. 

I just checked out the specs on the Clicky... how does the weight compare with the HDS and Novatacs, for example?

Personally, I think weight is quite important... for the record, I like my lights light!


----------



## gottawearshades (Jul 23, 2008)

Hey, I'm as patient as the next guy, but cheese and rice, this is getting ridiculous!

A couple of questions about the Guaranteed Tint version:

Will the GT version come be available at the same time as the other models?

Who will it be sold by?

Will it be a version of the "Cr" or "Cw" model?

PS: Please, a picture? Even a close-up of the tailcap or something? It doesn't have to show the whole light! Throw me a bone here! Anything?


----------



## russtang (Jul 23, 2008)

I think the saphire lens should be the option, with the ar coated lens standard.

I have never had a problem with scratched lens on any of my lights.

I have no problem with people wanting saphire, I may even buy one myself to tryout.

my $.02


----------



## tempman (Jul 23, 2008)

Bronco said:


> "Clicky, 100 lumens, engage!"


 
Devestating strobe....INITIATE!


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 24, 2008)

Wishful thinking "Picture"


----------



## Moka (Jul 24, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> Wishful thinking "Picture"


 
+1 for picture... less than a week until August!!!


----------



## tricker (Jul 25, 2008)

ETA and picture


the magic word: PLEASE


----------



## Cuso (Jul 25, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> My B42XRGT (Seoul'd) has been waiting for a partner for a very long time.
> Here she is on vacation all alone in Puerto Rico's El Yunque Rain Forest...
> Roughly 4,000 feet above Sea level.


How dare you!! Not even a pm!!! Did you even get some mofongo and lechon??? How where those trails in el Yunque? 

Back on topic- Pictures of the clicky please..


----------



## Gatsby (Jul 25, 2008)

No question it would be nice to get a brief glimpse of the new light ... 

Meanwhile I'm thinking about picking up another HDS light just to have a backup!


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 25, 2008)

Cuso said:


> How dare you!! Not even a pm!!! Did you even get some mofongo and lechon??? How where those trails in el Yunque?
> 
> Back on topic- Pictures of the clicky please..


 

Oh, lots and lots of Mofongo. Plus the Panaderia's in the morning :naughty:

BTW, the Peu bezel will be going on the HDS Pictured :twothumbs


----------



## tricker (Jul 25, 2008)

henry was viewing this thread at 2:07(eastern) today, and now is gone



maybe he had to go find a location for some pictures:twothumbs


----------



## HDS_Systems (Jul 25, 2008)

Shawn A.,

Each design has it's trade-offs. The EDC Ultimate/Basic were exceptionally good at very long runtimes at very low brightness settings. The new design is not quite as good at the low power settings but it will still suck a primary cell almost dry.

CPEng,

The designer does know where the limits are. Just because your light does not hit thermal limit does not mean that the next light won't. I'll simply say there there is a lot more to setting the limitations than you may think. Things that are safe for a single custom flashlight are not necessarily safe for 100 or 1000 flashlights in a production environment.

Adamlau,

I think this may be an apples and oranges comparison. Allow me to explain.

One assumption in the statement is that the glass lens is fairly delicate and prone to catastrophic failure. Our lens and lens housing design do an excellent job of protecting the lens and keeping it from breaking. The pummeled light was exposed to severe abuse and the lens never broke.

The design being referred to is very similar to the design we used for the EDC Ultimate and EDC Basic flashlights. That design was prone to catastrophic failure and that design did benefit from using a sapphire lens. The new design is totally different and there is almost no practical benefit from going to sapphire.

Another assumption in the statement is that glass is somehow prone to scratching and sapphire is not. Granted, sapphire is more scratch resistant than glass is. However, in a well recessed design such as our new design, there are very few opportunities for the lens to be scratched. Even with scratching, most of the scratches will end up in the center of the lens. However, the center of the lens has the least affect on light output and beam pattern. The exterior parts of the lens - the parts that are the least likely to scratch - are the parts that have the most affect on the beam pattern and the total light output.

It would take a lot of scratching - a very noticeable amount - before the light output from an ultra-clear lens would fall below that of a sapphire lens with no scratches. However, in real use, a sapphire lens would also be accumulating scratches but at a slower rate. In practical terms, even heavy users may never see the day when their ultra-clear lens accumulated enough scratches that they got less light out compared to using a sapphire lens under the same conditions.

Increasing the cost of the flashlight by $40 while decreasing the performance by 10 to 15% does not seem like a customer pleaser to me. Does sapphire give you bragging rights? You bet. Does it bring any practical benefits in this particular application? No.

Thujone,

The other company uses plastic lenses so scratching is a significant issue but breakage is not.

Kid9P,

Things are coming together rapidly. I figured keeping the schedule from slipping was a bit more important that a photo.  Let me see what I can come up with this weekend.

GottaWearShades,

The GT versions will be in the first offerings. I assume all of the dealers will carry the GT versions.

At this point we are thinking that there will not be a Cr (red dim) model. We can add a feature that I think will be far more useful to the average person by not supporting the dim red for the Ra Clicky flashlights. Unfortunately, the two features conflict in hardware. Since the Ra Twisty cannot support that feature anyway, it will continue to be offered with dim red.

Henry.


----------



## HoopleHead (Jul 25, 2008)

:thumbsup:


----------



## dixemon (Jul 25, 2008)

Pictures of the Clicky this weekend!!Hopefully!!! YEEEHHAAAA!!!!!!!


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 25, 2008)

Great News Henry!

Its been a crappy week for me and just knowing the RaClicky is almost at hand makes things that much better!

Thanks for the update Sir!


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Jul 25, 2008)

Aw man... no Cr?...:mecry:

But a mysterious feature? 




Thanks for the update Henry


----------



## FredericoFreire (Jul 25, 2008)

Good news! :thumbsup:

I'll be looking foward for a picture this weekend.


----------



## HoopleHead (Jul 25, 2008)

*crossing fingers that its a locator beacon*


----------



## SaturnNyne (Jul 25, 2008)

HoopleHead said:


> *crossing fingers that its a locator beacon*


A second locator beacon that somehow creates a hardware conflict in the Twisty? 




HDS_Systems said:


> I figured keeping the schedule from slipping was a bit more important that a photo.


That's encouraging and exciting, so we really might be getting close...



HDS_Systems said:


> The GT versions will be in the first offerings.


Good news! :thumbsup:
You mentioned receiving a reel of GT quality leds. Is that easy to do or might the GT feature be limited by availability?



HDS_Systems said:


> At this point we are thinking that there will not be a Cr (red dim) model.


Bad news! 
I probably wouldn't have gotten one due to the tint, but I thought that was a fantastic option for those willing to make the tradeoff. I hope there will be the option of a Cr model at some point, especially if the tint of these emitters improves (not that it's _bad_ now).



HDS_Systems said:


> We can add a feature that I think will be far more useful to the average person


Good news? 
That'll get some imaginations going. I can't think of a feature that would be more useful but conflict with the Twisty.

Hm. Thanks for the update. I hope we'll get to see a photo soon, but, for now, preferably just a teaser shot of the tail so we can see how the switch will be handled. I like a little suspense... Back to the waiting.


----------



## HoopleHead (Jul 25, 2008)

oh


----------



## paxxus (Jul 25, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> That'll get some imaginations going. I can't think of a feature that would be more useful but conflict with the Twisty.


Could be a super bright strobe mode or a turbo mode... maybe the current reversing electronics cannot handle large currents. Just total speculation of course, but that's fun too


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 25, 2008)

Did we ever find out if it would come with any type of clip ? :thinking:


----------



## seery (Jul 25, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> One assumption in the statement is that the glass lens is fairly delicate and prone to catastrophic failure.
> 
> Another assumption in the statement is that glass is somehow prone to scratching and sapphire is not. Granted, sapphire is more scratch resistant than glass is.
> 
> Henry.



Henry,

How does the glass window on the Twisty and Clicky compare to Surefire's Pyrex in
terms of strength, durability, and scratch resistance?

I ask because my Beast II sees hard use and the huge 4" Pyrex window doesn't have
a single mark.

Is the addition of Boron in the glass responsible for the added durability and scratch
resistance of the Pyrex, or are other factors at play?


----------



## CPEng (Jul 26, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> CPEng,
> 
> The designer does know where the limits are. Just because your light does not hit thermal limit does not mean that the next light won't. I'll simply say there there is a lot more to setting the limitations than you may think. Things that are safe for a single custom flashlight are not necessarily safe for 100 or 1000 flashlights in a production environment.



Henry,

I think you misunderstand my question so I repeat.

Will the maximum brightness of the light be limited by what the electronics and led can safely do or by what you think is a proper runtime at maximum birghtness?

I have never claimed to what limit's your flashlights which is why I used the word "Hypothesize". I'm pretty sure that I already know there is a lot to setting the limits of your lights, though I may not know exaclty what those limits are being a mechanical engineer and the light your design, I understand what comes into play when setting limits for a particular engineered device, ie this is not my first rodeo.

~CPEng


----------



## tricker (Jul 26, 2008)

HoopleHead said:


> *crossing fingers that its a locator beacon*


Features from the website

May be customized for special applications to include momentary operation, automatic shut-off, button lock, *locator flash*, disorienting strobe, emergency strobe signaling and emergency SOS signaling.

http://www.ralights.com/?id=Clicky


----------



## scottaw (Jul 26, 2008)

All the above ideas sound great....because henry already made them, if he's got something exciting, it's gotta be something new we've never seen before. I was really hoping for a low red, but if it's something cooler, i'm still in.


----------



## Theatre Booth Guy (Jul 27, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Shawn A.,
> 
> Each design has it's trade-offs. The EDC Ultimate/Basic were exceptionally good at very long runtimes at very low brightness settings. The new design is not quite as good at the low power settings but it will still suck a primary cell almost dry.
> 
> ...


 
Henry, it is very interesting to me that the newer design has an area that is exceeded by the previous generation with the very low output. I typically keep the low of my HDS or Ra set to the lowest level to avoid upsetting my dark adjusted eyesight. It also makes for an excellent night light when traveling! Given the long run time at low, I'm not sure that a shorter battery life matters much but, I am curious as to how much longer the old HDS would run on the lowest compared to how long the Ra will run on the lowest setting?

It will be interesting to see what new feature you have in store for us! If there is no way to set a dim red, will two styles of led still be offered?

Hope you are having good luck getting all the ducks lined up with the new Clicky.


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Jul 27, 2008)

I think Ra Clicky will do what the Spy 7 does, showing Voltage by blinking :twothumbs


----------



## Thujone (Jul 27, 2008)

I think voltage display is a no brainer... Really wish that my novatac had it, use it all the time on my Liteflux torches, and it was well implemented on the 007 also. Still miss my spy so much..


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm also dying to see how the clip will be mounted. I really hope it doesn't go the Novatac route.

I love the HDS screw on clip.
So many possibilities with that setup.


----------



## Thujone (Jul 27, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> I'm also dying to see how the clip will be mounted. I really hope it doesn't go the Novatac route.
> 
> I love the HDS screw on clip.
> So many possibilities with that setup.




I have not had an HDS light, out of curiosity doesn't that method leave those who do not use the clip with exposed holes, or screws sticking out for no apparent reason?


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 27, 2008)

Thujone said:


> I have not had an HDS light, out of curiosity doesn't that method leave those who do not use the clip with exposed holes, or screws sticking out for no apparent reason?



Screw fillers are available.
They are small hex screws that screw in to fill the holes.
They stay flush with the body.


----------



## :)> (Jul 27, 2008)

Thujone said:


> I have not had an HDS light, out of curiosity doesn't that method leave those who do not use the clip with exposed holes, or screws sticking out for no apparent reason?


 
It does leave the holes exposed or the screws sticking out. I don't like the look of the holes w/out the clips. I kind of like the new Novatac clips that are lower profile because they give you the option of carrying with or without the clip and the light still looks fantastic.


----------



## HoopleHead (Jul 27, 2008)

<insert clicky pic here>


----------



## scottaw (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm a huge fan of the Novatac clip, it may not be the prettiest, but it's definately the most useful clip i've ever used. Clips securely onto anything, goes bezel down and way into the pocket so you can't see it. And if you don't want it, it doesn't look like it's "missing something"


----------



## adamlau (Jul 28, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Increasing the cost of the flashlight by $40 while decreasing the performance by 10 to 15% does not seem like a customer pleaser to me.


I am certain more than a few of us would be willing to accept that trade-off. Perhaps the addition of a sapphire lens as an option?


----------



## russtang (Jul 28, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> I'm also dying to see how the clip will be mounted. I really hope it doesn't go the Novatac route.
> 
> I love the HDS screw on clip.
> So many possibilities with that setup.


 
That is how the clip from the Ra clicky will attach. 2 Screws like the HDS.

I don't know exactly how it will be shaped. 

edit: It won't be made of Ti.


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 28, 2008)

russtang said:


> That is how the clip from the Ra clicky will attach. 2 Screws like the HDS.
> 
> I don't know exactly how it will be shaped.
> 
> edit: It won't be made of Ti.



:twothumbs YEA BABY ! ! :twothumbs


----------



## Buffalohump (Jul 28, 2008)




----------



## wvaltakis2 (Jul 28, 2008)

russtang said:


> edit: It won't be made of Ti.


That can be fixed probably at least one for myself. 

~Chip


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 28, 2008)

The screw size will be the same, but the hole configuration will be different as per Henry.


----------



## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 28, 2008)

wvaltakis2 said:


> That can be fixed probably at least one for myself.
> 
> ~Chip


 
And one for me?????  :naughty:


----------



## RocketTomato (Jul 29, 2008)

adamlau said:


> I am certain more than a few of us would be willing to accept that trade-off. Perhaps the addition of a sapphire lens as an option?



How about a sapphire coated Ultra Clear Lens? You would get the best of both options, the higher transmission of the UCL and the scratch resistance of the sapphire coating.

Even better might be a Diamond Like Coating (DLC) or the coating used on Blu-Ray discs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durabis). If you search the web, you can find videos of people unsuccessfully trying to scratch the discs with steel wool and house keys.


----------



## Thujone (Jul 29, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> Screw fillers are available.
> They are small hex screws that screw in to fill the holes.
> They stay flush with the body.



Would these come with the torch? Sounds like something you would want to probably threadlock in place. This sounds workable but I would much prefer it be the newer low profile Novatac clip style.


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 29, 2008)

Thujone said:


> Would these come with the torch? Sounds like something you would want to probably threadlock in place. This sounds workable but I would much prefer it be the newer low profile Novatac clip style.


 
No threadlock needed at all, nice and snug. I carried an HDS like this once for 6 months and they never budged.

I can't wait to see the new clip. If it's something I dont feel good about, the screw type clip gives modders here at CPF more options when it comes to making custom clips.


----------



## FredericoFreire (Jul 29, 2008)

The weekend is gone and not a single pic. :candle:

We want pics, pleaseeee...


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Jul 29, 2008)

Look here :wave::nana::wave:


----------



## Thujone (Jul 29, 2008)

The table says ra twisty, is that a typo?


----------



## karlthev (Jul 29, 2008)

RainerWahnsinn said:


> *[moderator note: hotlinked image removed from quote]*
> Look here :wave::nana::wave:


 
There's the clicky and the website tells the prices.:thumbsup:



Karl


----------



## HoopleHead (Jul 29, 2008)

:thumbsup:

if its really only .25" longer than the twisty, im a happy camper. pics of the switch!


----------



## gunga (Jul 29, 2008)

Anyone know the difference between the C and Tn models? (wide vs narrow beam).

I can guess what the GT models are...

:naughty:


----------



## smokelaw1 (Jul 29, 2008)

I thought the TN might be twisties, but I don't think so....I would LOVE to know the answer, as I am on the list for a GT, but might reconsider for a throwier model!!!


----------



## Daniel_sk (Jul 29, 2008)

The Tn are most probably like the Twisty Tr versions in terms of used LED. These use ultra-reliable Osram Dragon LEDs, they throw very well and have a red low output mode. The tint is more on the cool side, but I have never perceived it as blue, more like cold white.

I like the clicky, soooo tempting.... I'll wait for first reviews, I want to know how reliable the tailcap is.


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 29, 2008)

Looks like I will be getting the* Ra-120-Tn*.

I prefer the throw of the narrower beam...
:twothumbs:twothumbs They look freakin *AMAZING* :twothumbs:twothumbs


Henry, thank you my friend!


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Jul 29, 2008)

.. Wow... .. I don't know what to say or think yet.....


(you guys should edit out the hotlinked photos in your posts)


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Jul 29, 2008)

"May be customized for special applications to include momentary operation, automatic shut-off, button lock, locator flash, _*burst output*_, disorienting strobe, emergency strobe signaling and emergency SOS signaling."

This just made more questions than answers!!

I'm So Freaking Excited though... Burst output?? That's exactly what i was hoping to read!


----------



## paxxus (Jul 29, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> "May be customized for special applications to include momentary operation, automatic shut-off, button lock, locator flash, _*burst output*_, disorienting strobe, emergency strobe signaling and emergency SOS signaling."


YESSS :thumbsup:


----------



## smokelaw1 (Jul 29, 2008)

Uh huh. Is that the special secret Henry alluded too? I haven't used the work AWESOME in a while....this is friggen AWESOME.


----------



## dixemon (Jul 29, 2008)

Available late August. Hmm...


----------



## WASF (Jul 29, 2008)

"GT stands for Guaranteed Tint. The color tint of these LEDs will lie close to the Planckian black body radiator line in the range of 0.30 to 0.33 on the x-coordinate on the CIE-1931 Chromaticity Diagram. "

Can somebody help me understand ....:shrug: 
Thanks WASF


----------



## Oddjob (Jul 29, 2008)

WASF said:


> "GT stands for Guaranteed Tint. The color tint of these LEDs will lie close to the Planckian black body radiator line in the range of 0.30 to 0.33 on the x-coordinate on the CIE-1931 Chromaticity Diagram. "
> 
> Can somebody help me understand ....:shrug:
> Thanks WASF


 
It just means the tint will be white as white can be, i.e. not verging towards cool (blue/purple) or warm (yellow/green).


----------



## WASF (Jul 29, 2008)

Oddjob said:


> It just means the tint will be white as white can be, i.e. not verging towards cool (blue/purple) or warm (yellow/green).


Thanks WASF


----------



## karlthev (Jul 29, 2008)

Hmmm. Tn.....hmmm---halfta be my second after my GT I'll betcha!.

Glad to see some folks got their burst mode! It'll be just like my other HDS lights 'cept better!




Karl


----------



## russtang (Jul 29, 2008)

I've updated the sign-up page at the marketplace and answered a couple of questions.


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Jul 29, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> This just made more questions than answers!!



Actually after some time relaxing my mind, I noticed that it says "All Ra Clicky flashlights provide the following common features:"

And Burst Output falls as a feature.. Which means that all of those torches listed can do burst. (governed of course by the limits of their LED)(which makes me wonder typically how high each of the models can reach)

It's not limited to just one model. 

Henry, I don't know how you did it, but if my interpretation of burst output for all models is correct, you've really broadened the field of flashlights into an area few yet have gone.
Thanks for taking the chance.


----------



## HoopleHead (Jul 29, 2008)

im thinking the burst output is kinda like level 7 on the arc6?


----------



## thermal guy (Jul 29, 2008)

That loud noise you just herd was novatac stock falling


----------



## HDS_Systems (Jul 30, 2008)

Gunga,

Sorry about the typos on the Ra Clicky page. Thanks to the person who called to let me know.

There is no Tn - it should have read Ra-100-Cn and Ra-120-Cn. The Cn stands for Clicky with a narrow beam.

Kid9P,

The narrower beams throw much better than the wider beams. Roughly 25% further for the same lumen output.

Henry.


----------



## dixemon (Jul 30, 2008)

Henry, 
How will we be able to make a dicernable difference between the models? Will they be laser engraved with their specific model indentfication. I can see that there could be a problem if we choose to sell our lights down the road. Such as someone selling a 120c for a 120gt price, ect... I dont know that a simple color coded paint blob on the PCB will be sufficient in detering this. Any thoughts? Thanks


----------



## Moka (Jul 30, 2008)

Why would you ever want to sell such an awesome light??? 

LOL


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Jul 30, 2008)

twisty 120T is 15lm for 8 hours
clicky 120C is 15lm for 8 hours

twisty 100T is 17lm for 8 hours
clicky 100C is 12lm for 8 hours

this means that the 120C is more efficient than the 100C. And the 100T is more efficient than the 120T.


----------



## souptree (Jul 30, 2008)

Is there any chance we will see a narrow clicky GT?


----------



## Bright (Jul 30, 2008)

Hi,

I've just noticed that the Ra Clicky will be 95mm long. The HDS was only 80mm.

Why the extra 15mm?

Regards,
Bright.


----------



## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Jul 30, 2008)

Bright said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just noticed that the Ra Clicky will be 95mm long. The HDS was only 80mm.
> 
> ...



Bright,

There are a few design aspects of the Ra lights that increase their size over the old EDC series. The first is a substantially beefed up front end with a stainless steel bezel for increased impact resistance. The UCL window is now nearly 3mm thick and mounted between o-rings for improved protection. The battery compartment now features springs at both ends which increases its length but lessens the chance of battery damage during falls.

I think in the case of the new Ra lights, the extra length over the EDC series is justified in their (much) improved durability :thumbsup:.


----------



## Zenster (Jul 30, 2008)

UnderTheWeepingMoon said:


> Bright,
> 
> I think in the case of the new Ra lights, the extra length over the EDC series is justified in their (much) improved durability :thumbsup:.


 
That's what I'm counting on, because the additional length is one of the first things I noticed that hasn't been mentioned much until now.

The RA Clicky is also quite a bit longer than the Novatac which almost discouraged me from ordering the RA Clicky 120. 
But for me, the diameter of the 120P and the RA Clicky (both the same) is what makes them somewhat chunky to carry in a pocket moreso than their length, so if I can live with the "fat" of either of those lights, then the 1/2" additional length of the Clicky doesn't bother me much.

It would have been great to see the Clicky end up as thin as the EX10, but I'll cede to Henry's engineering design considerations that evidently required the Clicky to remain fat.


----------



## Daniel_sk (Jul 30, 2008)

Henry doesn't do any compromises when it comes to durability.


----------



## aikiman44 (Jul 30, 2008)

So, which one should I order?:shrug:


----------



## Daniel_sk (Jul 30, 2008)

I am deciding between Ra-120-C or Ra-120-Cn. I think I can live without the "Guaranteed Tint" option - and it's not offered for the Cn version. 

I have a Tr-85 Twisty (same LED as Ra-120-Cn but lower output), the high mode is plenty bright. 

The Cn (Tr in case of Twisty) version offers a more reliable LED (no LED dome to fall off), better throw, low red light. The only downside I can think of is the cooler tint - but color rendition still seems to be very good, at least to my eyes.

I am leaning towards the Ra-120-Cn version...


----------



## HoopleHead (Jul 30, 2008)

ill be getting both a C and a Cn. not a tint fiend so $50 or whatever for a gt isnt worth it to me.


----------



## AvroArrow (Jul 30, 2008)

Henry, I've got a couple of questions that I haven't found the answers for after reading this thread. 

Are the guaranteed tints of the new 100/120 GTs the same as the tint of the old HDS EDC B/U60GTs? I've got an old U60GT and wanted to know if the new 100/120CGTs would look the same in terms of color tint.

Will there be any interior markings (like the color markings on the 85/100/120-Twisty) that will differentiate a GT and non-GT Clicky? Since there is a pretty significant price difference between the GT and non-GT, it would be nice to know that I am getting what I paid for from the dealer or secondary BST market since there are no permanent outside markings to differentiate them. Thanks.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Jul 30, 2008)

Dixemon,

I understand the issue and will consider a different method.

Enzo Morocioli,

Be careful about drawing conclusions from marketing data. You can easily reach the wrong conclusion. The numbers may be understated by very different amounts and thus the assumed meaning of the numbers would be wrong. Think of it as varying amounts of round-off error. That said, the 120 lumen lights are always more efficient at lower power settings than the 100 lumen lights.

SoupTree,

So far it has been very difficult to find high efficiency and GT in the same LEDs that produce the narrower beams. If we ever find them, we will offer them.

There is a problem with the great variety of possible options in a single flashlight. If there are 5 options with two possibilities each you get 32 possible combinations. This raises havoc with the dealers who do not want to stock that many variations.

We are looking into a way to allow our customers to configure custom flashlights - sort of like going to the Apple web site and configuring a computer. Pick the type of flashlight. Pick the bezel and clip color. Pick the flashlight output. Pick the beam pattern. Pick the GT option. Etc. This would allow the dealers to carry one or two base models and then allow anyone who wants a specially configured flashlight to visit a special web page and configure it their way. We hope to have such an option available in a few months.

Daniel_Sk,

The Ra-120-Cn (and Ra-100-Cn) do not offer red dim. Although the LEDs used in these models are made by the same manufacturer that makes the LEDs in the Ra-85-Tr, these LEDs are not capable of generating red light. We had to give up the red dim to get the higher output.

AvroArrow,

The GT color tint specification is exactly the same as the EDC Ultimate/Basic GT tint specification. So they will be a very close match.

There will be a GT marking on the interior of the head so they can easily be told apart. The exact production marking has not been decided on yet.

Henry.


----------



## thermal guy (Jul 30, 2008)

So Henry what exactly is this burst output mode?


----------



## Daniel_sk (Jul 30, 2008)

It's a shame that the newer LED's don't offer low red output. 
Is the Cn version still more durable/reliable in terms of LED than the C version? (The Twisty Tr models are described as more reliable than the Seoul version).


----------



## Kid9P (Jul 30, 2008)

Henry, any chance of seeing one of these beauties
with it's clip ??

Thanks!

Ray


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Jul 30, 2008)

How will the button on the tailcap compare with the original HDS or a NovaTac. Are they more robust on the Clicky, or was the old design sufficient?


----------



## seery (Jul 30, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> How will the button on the tailcap compare with the original HDS or a NovaTac. Are they more robust on the Clicky, or was the old design sufficient?



I fell asleep one night very close the campfire with a 120P clipped in the pocket closest to the fire.

The rubber on the button "bulged" from the heat and never felt right after.

The switch still worked, it was just the rubber boot that went goofy.


----------



## Zenster (Jul 31, 2008)

seery said:


> I fell asleep one night very close the campfire with a 120P clipped in the pocket closest to the fire.
> 
> The rubber on the button "bulged" from the heat and never felt right after.
> 
> The switch still worked, it was just the rubber boot that went goofy.


 
Holy crap! Didn't the heat bubble some of your skin as well? 
I would think that anything hot enough over a period of time to deform rubber would also do some skin damage too.

Reminds me of the time I had to sleep with a heating pad on my leg and something went wrong. I woke up in the middle of the night to scratch an itch I felt under the pad and came up with a handful of gooey loose skin.
Lifetime scar, that one.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Jul 31, 2008)

Daniel_Sk,

The Cn LEDs have a higher reliability rating than the C LEDs, but the difference will mostly be noticeable to folks that use millions of LEDs.

Kid9P,

I'll update the photo when all of the productions parts have arrived.

Valpo Hawkeye,

The button is a new design that should increase durability. Many of the observed intermittent switch issues in past models were traced back to improper switch assembly. The new design eliminates the assembly problems.

Henry.


----------



## gottawearshades (Jul 31, 2008)

I have noticed that the rubber boot swells up on my NovaTacs when I run them on max. for several minutes.



seery said:


> I fell asleep one night very close the campfire with a 120P clipped in the pocket closest to the fire.
> 
> The rubber on the button "bulged" from the heat and never felt right after.
> 
> The switch still worked, it was just the rubber boot that went goofy.


----------



## manoloco (Jul 31, 2008)

Be careful, if your button is swelling up, it may be that the battery is venting... any funny smell coming out of it if you open it right after it swells?


----------



## m16a (Jul 31, 2008)

Whats the CN stand for after the Ra-100 clicky? I only ask because it seems to be the best option for seeing as it has a narrower beam profile and is the cheapest of the lights.


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Jul 31, 2008)

m16a said:


> Whats the CN stand for after the Ra-100 clicky? I only ask because it seems to be the best option for seeing as it has a narrower beam profile and is the cheapest of the lights.



Clicky Narrower beam....
It uses the same LED as the TR versions of the Twisty, though lacks low red output.


----------



## m16a (Jul 31, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> Clicky Narrower beam....
> It uses the same LED as the TR versions of the Twisty, though lacks low red output.




So its a narrower, more throwy beam, using an Osram LED?


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Jul 31, 2008)

m16a said:


> So its a narrower, more throwy beam, using an Osram LED?



Yep, that seems to be exactly the case.


----------



## HKJ (Jul 31, 2008)

gottawearshades said:


> I have noticed that the rubber boot swells up on my NovaTacs when I run them on max. for several minutes.



Probably because the air inside the lights get hot and expands and because the light is sealed, it can not get out.


----------



## m16a (Jul 31, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> Yep, that seems to be exactly the case.



Will the light be a white or red LED on high? Because I seem to remember that some of the twistys were up to 120 lm with the red. Will this be the case with the 100 CN? I realize that Osram is a good LED, but will it be as good and efficient as those with the Seoul emitter?


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Jul 31, 2008)

m16a said:


> Will the light be a white or red LED on high? Because I seem to remember that some of the twistys were up to 120 lm with the red. Will this be the case with the 100 CN? I realize that Osram is a good LED, but will it be as good and efficient as those with the Seoul emitter?



The Red Dim was only available on the 85Tr, and the 100Tr. There was never a 120lm Twisty with red. 

I take from Henry's statements that there is No Red on Any of the models of the Ra Clicky. This could change in the future, but there is no Red now. All Ra Clickies emit White light. 

If Henry found Osrams capable of 120lm for 1 hour, then it is equally good and efficient as a Seoul emitter producing 120lm for 1 hour. There will be minor insignificant changes in runtime due to the calibration of each LED. The tint on the Osrams may lean towards a cooler white, though we have yet to see the Clicky beam pattern/tint. They most likely resemble the Twisty 85/100lm beams, with the extra 20 invisible lumen for "posterity".


----------



## m16a (Jul 31, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> The Red Dim was only available on the 85Tr, and the 100Tr. There was never a 120lm Twisty with red.
> 
> I take from Henry's statements that there is No Red on Any of the models of the Ra Clicky. This could change in the future, but there is no Red now. All Ra Clickies emit White light.
> 
> If Henry found Osrams capable of 120lm for 1 hour, then it is equally good and efficient as a Seoul emitter producing 120lm for 1 hour. There will be minor insignificant changes in runtime due to the calibration of each LED. The tint on the Osrams may lean towards a cooler white, though we have yet to see the Clicky beam pattern/tint. They most likely resemble the Twisty 85/100lm beams, with the extra 20 invisible lumen for "posterity".



Cool, thanks for the info enzo. Any word on the clicky's UI yet? I'm really looking forward to it:thumbsup:


----------



## orcinus (Jul 31, 2008)

Drat and double drat! I accidentally clicked on the thread after forcing myself not to for the past two months. Now i'm contemplating buying a Ra Clicky too...

And i'm WAY over my budget and have lots of other stuff to pay. 
Curse you CPF! 

PS: Any word on that burst? :naughty:


----------



## manoloco (Jul 31, 2008)

This is kind of a longshot but, Henry if you ever get a HDS Ultimate 60 light engine that doesnt have any flicker or anything, could you consider selling it to me?, i have one HDS that i love but flickers on the lowest level, i dont know if you remember, you answered to a thread i started, my light is #0055

I exchanged its emitter for a p4 USWOH a while ago and its great, and with arctic silver 5 you can really feel it dissipates heat more efficiently, but it still flickers on the lowest setting, i know this is supposed to happen (due to software) and thats why im not complaining but would love to have a lowest setting free of trouble, perhaps if someone sends one with troubles not related to the light engine and uses the guarantee to go towards a clicky?

Will start saving money for a ra-light, still undecided if it will be a twisty or clicky, would love a low red on a clicky, and would like to know how does the new clicky design works and the materials used on different parts, if its as reliable or more than a PD im sold.


----------



## matrixshaman (Aug 1, 2008)

I didn't see any pictures of the Clicky in this thread but I assume everyone knows there is a pic up on Henry's web site now? Looks very nice AND tough. Getting close now and I'm way overspent but somehow got to have one of these. I saw mention of the Oster LED being used in these. Someone in this thread seemed to think they lean toward the cool side but I thought it was the oposite for Oster - that they lean toward the warm side. Can anyone clarify please?


----------



## carl (Aug 1, 2008)

http://www.ralights.com/?id=Clicky


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 1, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> I didn't see any pictures of the Clicky in this thread but I assume everyone knows there is a pic up on Henry's web site now? Looks very nice AND tough. Getting close now and I'm way overspent but somehow got to have one of these. I saw mention of the Oster LED being used in these. Someone in this thread seemed to think they lean toward the cool side but I thought it was the oposite for Oster - that they lean toward the warm side. Can anyone clarify please?



Oster LED?.. Is that like Ostar, or Osram?

All I can say is the the Osram used in the Twisty is most likely also used in the Cn Clickies, though perhaps it's a different model, able to withstand higher current.. The Osram in the Twisty was characteristically cooler, with a slight hint of lavender, but mostly white..

The GT LEDs, whose manufacturer are not exactly known yet will fall in the pure white category, with a not cool, but not extremely warm tint.

Indeed, we have yet to see exactly which LEDs are used, but it's with a reasonably large amount of confidence that I say the Cn models use some variation of the Osram LED utilized in the Ra Twisty (which is the Osram Golden Dragon).


----------



## Daniel_sk (Aug 1, 2008)

There is a new Osram Dragon Plus which could be the LED used in the Cn...


----------



## gottawearshades (Aug 1, 2008)

Yeah, the one time when I ran it on high for 15 mins or so, an dthe rubber boot was swelled out, I did take it apart, and the battery (I use SF and Energizer batts) itself was a little a bit swollen.

I took it to be the battery was discharged a little too quickly, and was outgassing a lot.

Since I had one of those dud SF L1 Crees with the flicker problem, which was replaced with another defective L1, I know run all my new lights on max for 20 minutes or so. The gave me some doubts about NovaTacs atfirst, but the light has been fine since.



HKJ said:


> Probably because the air inside the lights get hot and expands and because the light is sealed, it can not get out.


----------



## ingokl (Aug 1, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> Oster LED?.. Is that like Ostar, or Osram?
> 
> The GT LEDs, whose manufacturer are not exactly known yet will fall in the pure white category, with a not cool, but not extremely warm tint.



The GT specifications says the tint is 0,30-0,33 on the x-coordinate on the CIE-1931 Chromaticity Diagram. That means the colourtemperature is between 5700K and about 7600K. And 7600K is quite cold in my opinion. But anyway you will have a perfect tint without any blue, green or purple in it.


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 1, 2008)

ingokl said:


> The GT specifications says the tint is 0,30-0,33 on the x-coordinate on the CIE-1931 Chromaticity Diagram. That means the colourtemperature is between 5700K and about 7600K. And 7600K is quite cold in my opinion. But anyway you will have a perfect tint without any blue, green or purple in it.



It's true.. Hopefully the GT LEDs that Henry used are more towards X=.33 Y=.33 on the diagram..


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Aug 1, 2008)

I guess I hafta get one of these . . .


----------



## ingokl (Aug 1, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> It's true.. Hopefully the GT LEDs that Henry used are more towards X=.33 Y=.33 on the diagram..



Yes that would be really great ...but I still hope for a version around 4000K. Henry mentioned a potential warm white option somwhere in the twisty or Clicky thread.
Pleaaaase let that happen...I am still looking for a christmas pressent...for me


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 2, 2008)

karlthev said:


> Glad to see some folks got their burst mode!


Thanks, Karl. 


I am so excited about this light now. I'd already decided to purchase the Clicky instead of the light I'd been planning to get for over a year, but the addition of the burst wipes away any lingering regrets I had. I am so wholeheartedly excited to get a Clicky now!



Henry:
I was going to ask if the burst will actually reach the 170lm that has been hinted at in the output charts and that I used as an example when discussing the possibility of such a feature before, but I already found the answer for myself on the pioneering technologies page of the site: "*Automatic burst to 170 lumens from maximum - 2008*." :twothumbs

So, since the burst appears to have a specific, calibrated output just like all the other levels, does that mean that the output charts apply to them, so the 120s will burst to 170lm and the 100s will burst to 141lm? That seems like the safest assumption right now.

Also, I realize this is a question you probably don't want to answer yet since you haven't already, but I'm wondering how the burst will work? Since it's already listed openly as a feature, you won't be going the backdoor route that I suggested. Will it be just an additional level beyond the nominal, sustainable maximum that comes set from the factory? Or will it be something like a setting in the options menu that causes it to hit burst when the button is depressed while the light is on, instead of just momentarily going to the level assigned to Max as on previous lights? (The second option seems the more flexible to me since it would allow the user to retain whatever four levels they want for normal use but still have the easy option of switching momentary Max for Burst if they want the feature.) That also begs the question, will it be a true momentary only burst or can it be latched on like the other levels? And I'm curious what the "from maximum" in your description means; I can only think that it means the burst is available only from maximum, making it a two step process from any other level? That would still be useful, but it concerns me from a usability standpoint.

I don't expect all my questions to find answers at this point, but I do hope a little more light can be shed on some of them.

Thanks for everything, Henry! I appreciate that you take the time to interact with us and listen to our opinions and ideas.


----------



## tricker (Aug 2, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> Thanks, Karl.
> 
> 
> I am so excited about this light now. I'd already decided to purchase the Clicky instead of the light I'd been planning to get for over a year, but the addition of the burst wipes away any lingering regrets I had. I am so wholeheartedly excited to get a Clicky now!
> ...




Saturn.......thats is the greatest bit of detective work i have seen in a while, the pre production arcs tested to 170 lumens, i saw where the twisty had the software capabilities but now i think its pretty much guaranteed....i think this just offically burried the arc6.....R.I.P


----------



## gadgetnerd (Aug 2, 2008)

I don't *need* one but I sure as hell *want* one. All the best features of the Novatac (and a few extras it seems), but with the bombproof reliabilty of the Ra Twisty, mmmmmm.

A Ra-100-Cn will suit me fine, I love the beam of the Osram and programmed out the red in my Twisty anyway.

Think I might wait until I've read a few reviews before splashing >$200 on a torch this time.


----------



## thermal guy (Aug 2, 2008)

Nice find! It will probable only be able to be used for short bursts as the name implies but it will definitely be a great feature to have.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 2, 2008)

tricker said:


> Saturn.......thats is the greatest bit of detective work i have seen in a while, the pre production arcs tested to 170 lumens, i saw where the twisty had the software capabilities but now i think its pretty much guaranteed....i think this just offically burried the arc6.....R.I.P


Elementary, my dear Tricker.

But that's about how I feel too, the Arc is in trouble. The Clicky may now match it even for output, and it certainly already beats it in every other use-related (as opposed to carry/convenience-related) way (aside from UI perhaps, but that's entirely a matter of personal preference). And then the Clicky's also cheaper, just to top it all off. $300 vs $230 for a non-GT 120C (since there is no GT Arc). I actually feel really bad for Arc/Peter; I was enthusiastic about the light for a long time and I like him as a designer and innovator; I really wanted to support the new LS project. But I feel the 6 just isn't earning its pricetag and is not very competitive with the cheaper Ra.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 2, 2008)

Saturn, great find! I see no reason for why the burst mode should be treated differently compared to the other special modes such as strobe and SOS, which can be assigned to any of the four levels. At least, that's what I hope.


----------



## bmstrong (Aug 3, 2008)

Any chance of a version WITHOUT the huge stainless steel bezel.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 3, 2008)

SN, so glad to see you've finally decided to spring for the cash and actually BUY a light!  THAT support no doubt WILL be appreciated by Henry. Enjoy yours as I will no doubt enjoy mine. On this I'm sure we will agree.


Karl


----------



## karlthev (Aug 3, 2008)

bmstrong, I was wondering the same. I can't tell by the pictures if this stainless bezel will just unscrew and can be replaced with one with some less "tooth" (I have a number of "after-market" bezels which fir the Arc4+s, HDSs and Novatacs) or if it is of a specialized design not meant to be replaced. The overall light appears to be of similar configuration to the twisty but I haven't been following the threads on thsat light to see if anyone has tried that change. I guess I'll see when I get mine.:twothumbs


Karl


----------



## :)> (Aug 3, 2008)

bmstrong said:


> Any chance of a version WITHOUT the huge stainless steel bezel.


 
The huge stainless steel bezel is one of the reasons that I love the Twisty. I think it looks fantastic, and it is an integral feature for the light to protect the glass window. 

I know it is a matter of personal preference, I just love the look of it too! I look at the thinner black bezels on my Novatac's and they just don't make me confident the way the stainless bezel on my Twisty does. 

I can't wait for the Clicky to come out either... Gotta get them all!


----------



## karlthev (Aug 3, 2008)

Goatee, I guess we all have preferences. You have the twisty--does the bezel screw off of the light and if so, is the bezel threaded inside..or outside?As well, does it appear that one of the post-market bezels might fit? Or, did I miss your statement that it is "integral"....did you mean that from an aethetic point or functional... 


Karl


----------



## :)> (Aug 3, 2008)

karlthev said:


> Goatee, I guess we all have preferences. You have the twisty--does the bezel screw off of the light and if so, is the bezel threaded inside..or outside?As well, does it appear that one of the post-market bezels might fit?
> 
> 
> Karl


 
Stand by for pics... but a quick answer is that the bezel is threaded on the inside.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks, *much* appreciated!


Karl


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 3, 2008)

You will not be able to use the "standard" HDS/Novatac bezel rings on the new Clicky. Completely different setup.


----------



## :)> (Aug 3, 2008)

Here are some pictures:


----------



## karlthev (Aug 3, 2008)

OK, thanks gentlemen. I do see it is an entirely different setup than previous designs. The stainless front may stay as is on mine and provide that extra protection when and if needed.


Karl


----------



## HoopleHead (Aug 3, 2008)

im am hoping this is both a NovaTac 120P and Arc6 killer. with the "Press and hold the button for maximum" and 4 settings and different features, it sounds very much like a NovaTac UI, or functionality at least. cant wait.


----------



## Stillphoto (Aug 3, 2008)

Yeah the press and hold for boost reminds me of my old arc4+ (why did i get rid of it?)...It was simple and intuitive. The only times I've needed boost were to throw some light momentarily on something in the distance...so that was an ideal interface for me.

Looking forward to when these become somewhat available (after everyone goes crazy for the first batch). Warm leds would be awesome.

Contemplating the GT...but not sure if its going to be worth it...Unless its dead neutral in color.


----------



## bmstrong (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks for the pics of the bezel. I'm not wild about the design. Ultimately it's stopping me from purchasing one. The overall length is also a concern that tips the scale, for myself, back to the Arc6. I'd really like to try one of these but it's just not to my liking in terms of design. Different strokes for different folks. 

(Although you might be able to sell me a Clickie Titanium Bezel and Ti pocket clip. Or and all Clickie Titanium Version...)


----------



## TITAN1833 (Aug 3, 2008)

Dead_Nuts said:


> I guess I hafta get one of these . . .


+1:naughty:


----------



## karlthev (Aug 3, 2008)

Well, I'd have PREFERRED a shorter light...and a shorter bezel and, and, but this is what we have for us. No one light can possibly have all the features that all of us want. I don't think we'd even WANT it that way--might be a tad boring. I like most of the features of this light--enough for me to want one but, not all of the features. I sure do like the simplified UI (akin to the Novatac) along with the output increased over the HDS and, I generally prefer a clicky although I'm known to have quite a few twisties due to special performacne that some of them may have. Nothing is perfect but this one is just a little bit closer....



Karl


----------



## :)> (Aug 3, 2008)

I have to say that I want both 120 lumen versions of this light very badly! They are bigger than I want to put in my pockets at work but for every other use they look to be at the very top of the heap.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 4, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> I'm wondering how the burst will work? ... an additional level beyond the nominal, sustainable maximum that comes set from the factory? ... a setting in the options menu that causes it to hit burst when the button is depressed while the light is on, instead of just momentarily going to the level assigned to Max as on previous lights? ... will it be a true momentary only burst or can it be latched on like the other levels? And I'm curious what the "from maximum" in your description means; I can only think that it means the burst is available only from maximum, making it a two step process from any other level?



Now that I've had a couple days to ponder it, I'd like to share my thoughts and attempt to answer my own question. I've been wondering what exactly "Automatic burst to 170 lumens from maximum" means and have settled on what I think is the most likely answer. I'm still not sure what's "automatic" about it, but my guess (not my hope, but my guess) is that burst from maximum means simply that the light will function the same as it always has—with momentary Max when the button is pressed from any lower level—except now, instead of nothing happening when it's pressed while latched on Max, it will go to momentary Burst. A simple way to do it that completely fits with the description given, does not require any new UI conventions or conflict with existing ones, and also makes the light's behavior more predictable since a held press always yields more light, even if you're not sure what level you're on.

This method of implementation isn't the most ideal for the purposes I had in mind, but the more I think about it the more I like it. This would give the Clicky a satisfying characteristic of always having a little more on tap no matter what level is latched on. It can sometimes be easy to lose track of what level you're using as the environment and your level of adaptation change. Sometimes I'll want a little more light, think my light looks rather dim and must be on its second highest setting, press the button, and get nothing, leading to that disappointing "that's really it?" feeling. If the Clicky's burst is as I've suggested, this minor disappointment will no longer occur, it will always be able to momentarily provide a little more light when asked. That may not have tremendous practical significance, but it would at least be a pleasant psychological benefit that might make the light that little bit more satisfying to use.

Anyone else have an idea that fits with what we know about it so far?


----------



## cree8 (Aug 4, 2008)

Well my guess is that when you press momentary for max level it will automatically give the maximum amount of light available for given heat and battery condition up to 170 lumens. I would also think that this mode is user selectable 

Time will tell


----------



## russtang (Aug 4, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> You will not be able to use the "standard" HDS/Novatac bezel rings on the new Clicky. Completely different setup.


 
This is true. The old HDS bezels will not fit the Ra lights.

However, there will be other bezels available at some time.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 4, 2008)

Oh, well that's good news for those wanting a shorter and possibly 
non-crenulated front. I may be jumping the gun in terms of the length though. I'm not opposed to the appearance but wondering if the (slightly) increased length may make the light "feel" too big. Maybe not. I guess I'll have to see but evidently Henry has thought about this already...



Karl


----------



## paxxus (Aug 4, 2008)

Saturn, I see absolutely no reason for why you should be denied assigning the burst to any of the four levels just like you can do for strobe and SOS. While I will never use burst for any extended period I certainly wouldn't fancy holding my thumb down for the duration. If I understand correctly, your guess at how burst might be implemented does not in any way require that burst can NOT be latched to any of the four levels. So why should the user be denied that possibility?

If you want the light to always have a "little more on tap", well then just program your level 1 to something below burst.

My guess is that while burst might work as you describe, it can also be assigned to one of the four levels. Because, why not...


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi paxxus :wave:


paxxus said:


> If you want the light to always have a "little more on tap", well then just program your level 1 to something below burst.


You misunderstood my post. As I already said:


SaturnNyne said:


> my guess (not my hope, but my guess)


What I meant by that is that the method I'm suggesting is *not* what I want at all—in fact, I was quite disappointed when I first realized that it appears to be far more likely than my first two burst implementation conjectures. It is not what would be most ideal for the uses I have in mind (the setup you're hoping for comes closer) and it would require altering the way I set up the light to take maximum advantage of it, causing me to give up a high but sustainable level on the Max setting in favor of a more moderate level. However, after considering how it would be in actual use, I've become more comfortable with the idea (though perhaps not as much so as my first two suggestions) and can appreciate what it would offer (even though my favorite option, trading max for burst momentary in menu, would give about the same effect and be less limiting of how it's used). I'm simply putting it forth because it seems to fit perfectly with the description we've been given of the feature by the designer himself and, so far, nothing else fits as well.

In short, I feel about as you do, but the evidence suggests that's now how it will be. Hope that's clearer.



paxxus said:


> I see absolutely no reason for why you should be denied assigning the burst to any of the four levels just like you can do for strobe and SOS ... My guess is that while burst might work as you describe, it can also be assigned to one of the four levels. Because, why not...


I basically agree, I don't really see any reason we _should_ be denied that option—aside from the fact that Henry seems to want to discourage what he deems excessive energy use—and I think it would especially be fine if burst were placed with strobe and SOS as you suggest, away from the regular levels, just to make it absolutely clear that it's not considered a regular use level; but I think that we _will_ be denied that option because of the wording on the site. Why would it specify "from maximum" if it were just another level that could be programmed to any setting and accessed also "not from maximum"? Also, as I perceive it, "burst" traditionally implies that the level is intended for momentary use only, so allowing it to latch on may not fit with the idea; but that's a minor semantic consideration here. Unless the site's description is just poorly worded, I now believe it's wishful thinking to expect that we'll have that degree of control over how we use the feature.

Unless...


paxxus said:


> If I understand correctly, your guess at how burst might be implemented does not in any way require that burst can NOT be latched to any of the four levels. So why should the user be denied that possibility?


That's true, it could be implemented so that we can choose how we want to make use of it and have it both ways. It's technically possible and I'd also like to have that level of customizability. However, based on past designs, I doubt Henry wants to add that much "clutter" to the menu interface just to provide multiple ways of accessing a single feature and please a small percentage of picky customers (us) at the expense of the (probable) majority. And, again, it ignores the "from maximum" specification.


So, to sum it all up in simplest fashion.
*Option 1*: An additional level beyond the light's nominal, sustainable-for-an-hour maximum that comes set from the factory, possibly within the strobe area of the output menu. (I think this is the simplest method.)

*Option 2*: A setting in the options menu that causes the light to trigger the burst level whenever the button is depressed while the light is on, instead of just momentarily going to the level assigned to Max as on previous lights. (This is my favorite because it doesn't interfere at all with the four general use settings and would fit perfectly with how I already use the momentary high feature.)

*Option 3*: Momentary Max when the button is pressed from any lower level, just like it's always been; but instead of nothing happening when it's pressed while latched on Max, it will now go to momentary burst. (I believe this is the most likely option because it fits perfectly with what little we know so far and the other ideas simply do not.)


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 4, 2008)

I vote for Option 2..
Having a menu setting which allows me to keep 4 channels set to my desired levels, but interpret 'press-hold' as Burst Output, rather than Maximum.

However, I do accept Option 1. Where Burst is just like tactical strobe on a Novatac P, which can be set to a channel. This would in reality create a 3 level torch, with the 4th being Burst. 

I would hope that Option 3 isn't implemented. This, in my interpretation, would mean that we would have to be at Max _before _Burst is available. 
From the wording on the site, as Saturn pointed out, "From Maximum" does seem to imply Option 3. Despite this being my least desirable mode of operation, I will still accept it as being useful. 

I favor Option 2, because I know that I use my torches at a primary setting of around 2.3-5.7lm. If in the case that I'm walking in the woods at night (happens often) and I hear something I need to check out quickly, I would like to press-hold and grab 170lm for a short 'Burst' of intense output. Once I was satisfied with what I saw, I'd like to let go and have the torch return to 5.7lm.

Option 3 wouldn't work for me in that instance, because I'd have to travel from whatever channel 5.7lm is on, to Maximum, then press and hold for Burst... That would take way too much time, and reflexes that I may not have...

Option 1 would be a good compromise, and would fit best with the description of the torch, in my opinion.. However, as stated before, I most favor Option 2.

In short, I hope that the PDF will cover this topic in detail, since it is a new feature not yet implemented in such a way on any other torch on the market. Also, I hope that Henry can find the time to clarify Saturn's points, by outlining the procedure he designed for 'Burst Output'. 
Again though, I have to thank Henry for giving us this option. I'm sure he was aware that it would create more questions and issues by including Burst, however, I think it's truly a step in the right direction. Thanks Henry! Go for Option 2! :thumbsup:


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 5, 2008)

Manoloco,

Although I do have the software with the fix, I don't have the fixtures to download it and I don't have the gear to calibrate it.

MarixShaman,

We only use unmounted emitters and we do not specify the manufacturer. And we use emitters from two different manufacturers to provide the differing beam characteristics. Therefore, you cannot make comparisons between the two as far as tint characteristics.

Enzo Morocioli,

These GTs will be in the 5700 to 6500 part of the specification. A very pleasant white.

SaturnNyne,

It is always nice to see people reading the web site. The details page should go up in about a week or so and the user manuals will go up when we start shipping. I'll give you a hint: burst mode is trivial and intuitive to use and you can turn it off easily if you do not like it - but we think almost everyone will leave it enabled and use it. Ok, a second hint: it has to work in all cases and not violate any existing UI feature - more difficult than most people realize. The solution is actually ideal for practical purposes. Remember KISS.

Also, this brings to fruition something I mentioned a long time ago that is very useful in practical situations.

BmStrong,

Things come to those who wait.

KarlThev,

The bezel unscrews as the posted photos showed. However, I am not aware of any third-party (after-market) bezels currently available for it.

Henry.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 5, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> I'll give you a hint: burst mode is trivial and intuitive to use and you can turn it off easily if you do not like it - but we think almost everyone will leave it enabled and use it. Ok, a second hint: it has to work in all cases and not violate any existing UI feature - more difficult than most people realize. The solution is actually ideal for practical purposes. Remember KISS.
> 
> Also, this brings to fruition something I mentioned a long time ago that is very useful in practical situations.


Hm. If that means that all of my suggestions are incorrect, I'm utterly baffled. 

Thanks for the hints, I was starting to feel too confident and unvexed.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 5, 2008)

Thanks Henry. Probably no need to mod before I get it/them but, as we all know, there'll be a market and, jobbers will turn them.


Karl


----------



## cree8 (Aug 5, 2008)

May be just a double click to activate burst?


----------



## joema (Aug 5, 2008)

*Ultra-low "glow mode"*

The HDS U-series had an undocumented momentary ultra-low level, if you rapidly click-press from off. While you held down the button, it would emit a very dim light, much dimmer than the normal 0.08 lowest level on a U60.

I think this was an inadvertent characteristic, not an undocumented intentional feature.

However if the Ra Clicky could do this as a programmable feature -- like SOS and strobe -- it would be useful.

An ultra-low level would be useful for various situations where your eyes are fully dark adapted.

It could also be a "constantly on" locator feature. Tritium locators are a nice feature, but U.S. manufacturers are hampered by restrictions. Why not provide the safe, regulation-free, and electronic equivalent by an ultra-low "glow mode"? If there's a slight flicker or major color shift, so what? The normal beam assessment criteria don't apply for this specialized situation.

My U60 ran for 45 days non-stop on the regular 0.08 lumen low, so it seems plausible (depending on microcontroller consumption) a "glow mode" could run for months.

I don't know of any other light having this feature. It seems like a useful possibility.


----------



## Tronic (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



joema said:


> An ultra-low level would be useful for various situations where your eyes are fully dark adapted.
> 
> It could also be a "constantly on" locator feature. Tritium locators are a nice feature, but U.S. manufacturers are hampered by restrictions. Why not provide the safe, regulation-free, and electronic equivalent by an ultra-low "glow mode"? If there's a slight flicker or major color shift, so what? The normal beam assessment criteria don't apply for this specialized situation


+1

A "glow mode" like the Safe(PAL)-Lights would be very usefull.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 5, 2008)

cree8 said:


> May be just a double click to activate burst?



Most likely not it. In previous HDS models, a double click switches between primary and secondary modes.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 6, 2008)

cree8 said:


> May be just a double click to activate burst?


As Valpo said, that would definitely conflict with an existing UI feature.





joema said:


> The HDS U-series had an undocumented momentary ultra-low level, if you rapidly click-press from off. While you held down the button, it would emit a very dim light, much dimmer than the normal 0.08 lowest level on a U60.



Joema, thank you, you're my hero of the day! I have never heard mention of this feature before and never noticed it myself, but I just tried it on my B42 and it works as you described. For a long time, I've wanted a level even lower than 0.08, like the glow the EDCs give off immediately after being switched off. This momentary glow is actually even dimmer than that! It's so dim that it's just about useless with non-adapted eyes, but it might prove useful for those very close up lighting needs with full adaptation when even 0.08 is a little too much. And even if not, I'm very glad to have learned something new about my favorite light; I'm surprised I missed it.

Also I agree with your constant on locator idea for such a glow, I think I may have suggested something similar myself recently while discussing the excessively bright locator flash feature. A much dimmer constant glow would be much more useful for me.


----------



## cree8 (Aug 6, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> Most likely not it. In previous HDS models, a double click switches between primary and secondary modes.



Yep I am an idiot I really should have known that MUST TRY HARDER


----------



## derfyled (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



joema said:


> The HDS U-series had an undocumented momentary ultra-low level, if you rapidly click-press from off. While you held down the button, it would emit a very dim light, much dimmer than the normal 0.08 lowest level on a U60.
> 
> I think this was an inadvertent characteristic, not an undocumented intentional feature.



:thumbsup: Wow ! A new feature for my all-time favorite ! Thank's for sharing this !


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*

Here's a thought... Doesn't the fact that the GT option exists pretty much guarantee you have a lower chance of getting a unit with a nice tint if you don't pay the extra $50?

The reason this sucks is that I got a very nice tint on my Ra Twisty without paying a premium. However, if the GT option existed when I bought my light doesn't it stand to reason that my light could only have been purchased for an extra $50?


----------



## Thujone (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*

I would say you are right valpo, not to mention it sounds like the gt may be on the cool side for my tastes, so i would likely just get the normal version and have milky fix it up with a nice slightly warm tint.


----------



## alibaba (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



Valpo Hawkeye said:


> Here's a thought... Doesn't the fact that the GT option exists pretty much guarantee you have a lower chance of getting a unit with a nice tint if you don't pay the extra $50?
> 
> The reason this sucks is that I got a very nice tint on my Ra Twisty without paying a premium. However, if the GT option existed when I bought my light doesn't it stand to reason that my light could only have been purchased for an extra $50?


 


Yeah, that is a bit harsh. I know that this isn't an even comparison but when the Liteflux LF5XT first came out you could actually request a cool or warm tint for FREE and they would select one for you. I cannot afford an HDS light regardless but I've always thought that it ought to be all or nothing. Either you the seller, as you test/QC the lights, seperate them by tint (at least cool vs. warm) and accept requests upon ordering or you just ignore the tint issue altogether but to charge $50 (the price of a nice torch!) just for a good tint is, IMO, not right..........................:shakehead

Let's face it, that is just taking advantage of their target demographic


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*

I'm not going to say that Henry is taking advantage. It does add overhead to hand select emitters, label them, sort them and get them to people who want them. More time spent = more $$$. However, I'm simply lamenting the fact that it lessens the chances of a good tint for those who don't pony up the dough.


----------



## Oddjob (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



alibaba said:


> ... but to charge $50 (the price of a nice torch!) just for a good tint is, IMO, not right..........................:shakehead


 
I don't know, I think a manufacturer can charge what they want and Henry is by no means the type to try to bleed money out of us. We as consumers do not have to pay. There are people willing to pay for the GT so to them there is value in it. The old HDS EDC series had the GT option and many people paid the extra without hesitation. As long as there is a market for something I think it is fine to charge for it.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



Thujone said:


> I would say you are right valpo, not to mention it sounds like the gt may be on the cool side for my tastes, so i would likely just get the normal version and have milky fix it up with a nice slightly warm tint.



One thing to remember with these new Ra lights when it comes to modding is that they're completely potted, including the emitter. So an emitter swap would technically lessen the toughness of the light, albeit by a small amount.


----------



## alibaba (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



Oddjob said:


> I don't know, I think a manufacturer can charge what they want and Henry is by no means the type to try to bleed money out of us. We as consumers do not have to pay. There are people willing to pay for the GT so to them there is value in it. *The old HDS EDC series had the GT option and many people paid the extra without hesitation*. As long as there is a market for something I think it is fine to charge for it.


 

Exactly. I don't know Henry and I might very well be totally off base here but it is just my opinion that it wouldn't be all that time consuming to toss the lights (while QC testing) into a left/warm bin or a right/cool bin. It is also my opinion that $50 is a bit steep for such a service and yet, as I'm sure they know, some torch connoisseur's (like many on CPF) just need the bestest thing and so will pony up whatever that may cost. In my mind it's taking advantage but I'm probably wrong...................


----------



## Kid9P (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



Oddjob said:


> I don't know, I think a manufacturer can charge what they want and Henry is by no means the type to try to bleed money out of us. We as consumers do not have to pay. There are people willing to pay for the GT so to them there is value in it. The old HDS EDC series had the GT option and many people paid the extra without hesitation. As long as there is a market for something I think it is fine to charge for it.


 


Well said :thumbsup:


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 6, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye,

Purchasing LEDs in production quantities is somewhat of a hit-or-miss thing. Only a certain percentage of the LEDs we purchase meet the GT specification just like only a certain percentage meet the 120 lumens for an hour specification. We could have one class of flashlight but we think it serves the customer better to offer several classes of flashlights.

You may not remember when the EDC Ultimate/Basic flashlights were introduced, but there were a lot of GT grade lights shipped that did not say GT on the side. They were GT grade but we did not guarantee it. If I were picky about the tint, as many people are, I would prefer to be able to purchase that specific tint without having to purchase a bunch of lights and test them - and perhaps still not get what I wanted.

Does offering several classes of flashlight reduce your chances of getting a specific class accidentally. Certainly, because those flashlights that are part of a specific class are no longer part of the general population. So you have the choice of spending a little extra and getting the class you want or spending a little less and taking your chances on the general population. Since we always purchase the best LEDs we can find, the risk may be lower than you think.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the different classes also use LEDs from different manufacturers. You will notice there are no narrower beam GT's. That is because we cannot get LEDs from that manufacturer that qualify. Does that lower your chances of getting a GT with a narrower beam. Yup. It lowers it to zero.

Alibaba,

There are more costs to offering a "guaranteed tint" than meet the eye. There is the cost of acquiring the GT-grade LEDs in the first place. A significant long term cost could be warranty service for a GT model. Once you offer a separate model, warranty service has to contend with replacing that model with another that meets the same specifications. We also have to spit the difference with the dealers and other parties in the distribution channel so we make less money on the deal than you think.

Henry.


----------



## orcinus (Aug 6, 2008)

I hear there's a huge market for breathable air. Should we start charging for it? :nana:

(yeah, i know, obnoxiously cheesybut... i just couldn't help myself... after all, we're already paying premium bucks for drinkable water, so i guess that line of thinking is beginning to feel perfectly normal for the general public)


----------



## Russki (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



Valpo Hawkeye said:


> One thing to remember with these new Ra lights when it comes to modding is that they're completely potted, including the emitter. So an emitter swap would technically lessen the toughness of the light, albeit by a small amount.


 

Don’t mind me asking how you know that?
You talking of new Ra clicky or Twisty as well?
Thanks.


----------



## russtang (Aug 6, 2008)

Something else to consider, is that "color temperature" is purely subjective.

My opinion of cool or warm tint may be much different than the next person. My tolerance for color temps outside the "pure white" catagory may be much different also.

Considering this, a "GT" version would pretty much guarantee a color temp that is in the "pure white" catagory.

It is a premium that many want, and will pay for. 
I did, for my first HDS EDC

my $.02


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



Russki said:


> Don’t mind me asking how you know that?
> You talking of new Ra clicky or Twisty as well?
> Thanks.



Well if the Clicky front-end is anything like the TW version of the Twisty, and the LED is an emitter, not a potted piece of electronic, then it should be fairly easily modded. 

take a look at this picture.

http://rob.com/lancair/2008.03/RA-Twisty-6388.jpg

Modding certainly seems possible with an exposed emitter like that, right? Just do a little swap job, and it's good to go?.. I think so -- I could be wrong though..Time will tell.


----------



## Russki (Aug 6, 2008)

Looking at my Twisty, look like easy swap to me.
And do not see Led potted as well.


----------



## alibaba (Aug 6, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> You may not remember when the EDC Ultimate/Basic flashlights were introduced, *but there were a lot of GT grade lights shipped that did not say GT on the side. They were GT grade but we did not guarantee it.* If I were picky about the tint, as many people are, I would prefer to be able to purchase that specific tint without having to purchase a bunch of lights and test them - and perhaps still not get what I wanted.
> 
> Alibaba,
> 
> ...


 


For the first bold'd comment, if I had purchased a GT EDC light back in the day I'm not sure I'd want to know that many (most?) folks got the same light for alot less $$. 


For the second, if you're not making much of a profit by adding 30% to the cost of a $180 torch to ship one with a good tint then it's darn near heroic of you to keep doing it. Thank you


----------



## Kid9P (Aug 6, 2008)

alibaba said:


> For the first bold'd comment, if I had purchased a GT EDC light back in the day I'm not sure I'd want to know that many (most?) folks got the same light for alot less $$.
> 
> 
> For the second, if you're not making much of a profit by adding 30% to the cost of a $180 torch to ship one with a good tint then it's darn near heroic of you to keep doing it. Thank you


 
I understand how you feel about the extra cash for a GT.
Unfortunately for you, it is what it is and it will not change.

I have a simple solution to your problem, just don't buy one.

Thank You 

BTW, can't wait for my GT to be delivered


----------



## alibaba (Aug 6, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> I understand how you feel about the extra cash for a GT.
> Unfortunately for you, it is what it is and it will not change.
> 
> I have a simple solution to your problem, just don't buy one.
> ...


 


A very good point, sometimes I don't know when to stop. Enjoy your light, I'm trying to save up for a clicky myself (although I'll probably wait for someone else to "break one in" for me to save a few $$).


----------



## matrixshaman (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



joema said:


> The HDS U-series had an undocumented momentary ultra-low level, if you rapidly click-press from off. While you held down the button, it would emit a very dim light, much dimmer than the normal 0.08 lowest level on a U60.
> 
> I think this was an inadvertent characteristic, not an undocumented intentional feature.
> 
> ...



I somehow missed this cool tidbit and have had a U60 almost since the day they came out. I also got a U60GT later on (which BTW I didn't like the GT tint on mine as well as the non-GT so it really is a personal choice thing). Unfortunately I don't seem to be able to get that ultra low mode on mine - can someone clarify how this is done. I can still read with my right eye as the left one got reminded just how bright the U60 is while I was playing with different speeds of 'click-press' eventually hitting a slow enough rate to activate the burst high setting right in my face. :shakehead


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 6, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*

Strange, my first Twisty seemed to have more "goo" around the connector "wings" of the emitter. I haven't opened the head of my current Twisty...


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 7, 2008)

As long as we're discussing the value of a GT, I'll quickly share my own story.

I, like so many, came to the HDS party rather late; I got mine towards the end of 2006 when the EDC line was discontinued and put on clearance pricing. At the time, I was not nearly as picky about tints as I've become, but I decided to go for the GT option since it was only an extra $10. Now, after a couple years and a couple dozen lights, my B42 is back to serving as my edc light, replacing the 120P I carried for half a year after they came out. The B42 doesn't compare well in a lot of ways. It uses an archaic old luxeon, its output is pretty limited, it won't even hit an hour at 42lm, it's often not bright enough for outdoor uses, the interface is fiddly and irritatingly slow compared to the much-improved NovaTac era interface, but it still serves as my most frequent edc and my favorite light. The reason for that is the wonderful tint. It only cost me $10 when I got it and I had to think about it at the time. Now, unfortunately, it costs $50, but I did not have to think about it; I've now seen how much I value it in actual use and it's worth that much to me. Only a Clicky GT can properly replace my EDC GT.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 7, 2008)

It's interesting that there are a number of folks (at least who have 
responded here) who prefer the "regular" over the GT as I do. I have both models in the HDS U60 series but have never EDCed the GT wanting to keep it "as a spare" (?) for what reason who knows. I have now gone for the GT model in the Ra 120C series as well. The "blue" sometimes evident in the non-GT series seems to give a better edge on objects which are illuminated. Some feel this gives a "harsh" presentation and distorts the true color scheme but for me, it lends clarity. Now why I bought the GT in the Ra.....:shrug:



Karl


----------



## gadgetnerd (Aug 7, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> As long as we're discussing the value of a GT, I'll quickly share my own story.
> 
> I, like so many, came to the HDS party rather late; I got mine towards the end of 2006 when the EDC line was discontinued and put on clearance pricing. At the time, I was not nearly as picky about tints as I've become, but I decided to go for the GT option since it was only an extra $10. Now, after a couple years and a couple dozen lights, my B42 is back to serving as my edc light, replacing the 120P I carried for half a year after they came out. The B42 doesn't compare well in a lot of ways. It uses an archaic old luxeon, its output is pretty limited, it won't even hit an hour at 42lm, it's often not bright enough for outdoor uses, the interface is fiddly and irritatingly slow compared to the much-improved NovaTac era interface, but it still serves as my most frequent edc and my favorite light. The reason for that is the wonderful tint. It only cost me $10 when I got it and I had to think about it at the time. Now, unfortunately, it costs $50, but I did not have to think about it; I've now seen how much I value it in actual use and it's worth that much to me. Only a Clicky GT can properly replace my EDC GT.



Wow, we share almost exactly the same history with the B42. I got mine in a Lighthound clearance ($95) a few years back, and still use it every day. I eventually reprogrammed it (thousands of clicks later) and it is a supremely reliable EDC with a nice warm beam, despite its drawbacks as you've mentioned.

I'm not that concerned with a Clicky GT, having grown to like the slight violet tint from the Osram LED.


----------



## joema (Aug 7, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



matrixshaman said:


> ...I don't seem to be able to get that ultra low mode on mine - can someone clarify how this is done...


From OFF, you quickly click then press and hold: click-release-press & hold. The first click turns on the light, the press turns it off. While you hold the button pressed down, the ultra-dim glow stays on.

To repeat, it's not an undocumented "mode" per se, but likely an unintentional side effect. 

I mention this simply to illustrate the light is physically capable of a stable ultra-dim output level.

If officially incorporated in the Ra Clicky as new menu command, it would be a nice addition to the blinking locator flash. You'd have the option of a constant-on glowing locator, or the current blinking locator.

It would bypass the difficulty of using tritium locators by giving the light roughly equivalent capability in electronic form.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 7, 2008)

Whoops SN, seems as though we differ on this one. Always room for preferences as is seen with the follow-up from your post. I guess my old eyes prefer the "blue" tint but there is no question that the GT is closer to what is needed for true color rendition.



Karl


----------



## HoopleHead (Aug 7, 2008)

ordered 2 clickys, and neither is a GT. just not a white wall hunter, and the $50 wasnt worth it to me. i think ill be a very happy camper with one 120-C and one 120-Cn


----------



## karlthev (Aug 7, 2008)

You will be happy I'm sure. I got the GT to see what the latest tech has to offer I guess.....:shrug: I'm not a white wall hunter either....



Karl


----------



## matrixshaman (Aug 7, 2008)

*Re: Ultra-low "glow mode"*



joema said:


> From OFF, you quickly click then press and hold: click-release-press & hold. The first click turns on the light, the press turns it off. While you hold the button pressed down, the ultra-dim glow stays on.
> 
> To repeat, it's not an undocumented "mode" per se, but likely an unintentional side effect.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification - that's what I thought - the one I tried this on does not seem to have that 'feature' (might be related to the longer battery tube I have on it at the moment? ) Edit: just tried it with my other HDS with the original battery tube and it does indeed have that super-low! Thanks for mentioning this cool find.


----------



## cree8 (Aug 8, 2008)

Henry will it be possible for the user to disassemble the switch from the battery tube?

Thanks


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 8, 2008)

karlthev said:


> Whoops SN, seems as though we differ on this one. Always room for preferences as is seen with the follow-up from your post. I guess my old eyes prefer the "blue" tint but there is no question that the GT is closer to what is needed for true color rendition.


The different perceptions of different eyes are indeed interesting. You find that a slightly blue tint enhances edge definition and improves clarity for you, while I find that a warmer tint gives better definition and depth for my eyes and a cool tint has a tendency to make edges look a little fuzzier. Completely opposite vision, it seems.

I'm curious, do you find your surroundings make a difference? I've found that a warm tint gives me much better vision in grassy/leafy outdoor areas, but inside it doesn't really make a significant difference. In the case of the Ras, specifically, the cooler tint of the 85Tr is excellent indoors and actually rather aesthetically pleasing with its subtle violet tone, but when outdoors I prefer the ugly green of my 120P. So again, my view is a little opposite of what some express here; I see a good tint as a worthwhile feature in actual use while outdoors, but actually much less of an issue in a "white wall hunting" environment. On white, anything even close will look basically white after a short time if we have nothing to compare it to, that's just how our brains work. Especially with the good tint consistency the Twisties seem to exhibit, I'd expect that any wide beam Clicky would be similarly and entirely satisfactory on a wall, whether C or CGT.


----------



## knf (Aug 8, 2008)

Does anyone know when the promised AA battery tubes are due out for the Ra lights? Presume they'd fit either the twisty or the clicky?


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 8, 2008)

Cree8,

The switch does not unscrew but it can be removed with the correct tools. It is not designed to be user-replaceable.

Knf,

The announced 2xAA battery cases are for the Ra Twisty. Making a 2xAA battery tube for the Ra Clicky is much more difficult but it could happen. Ra Twisty and Ra Clicky battery tubes are definitely not interchangeable.

Henry.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 8, 2008)

SN, you are an individual of much greater detail than I. I really aren't much of a tester comparing one light to another as much as I should. I guess I'll have to compare my "bluer" tinted HDS EDC to the GT in a side by side---something I confess I haven't done in in quite some time. Despite the name, I don't EDC either one but do use the GT for emergency use as may be needed. I love the lights but neither one is my EDC for some reason. I'm not sure if my age (57) has anything to do with my perception of more "harshness" in edge definition or not but, we're all different and that's how it appears to me. I seem to have that same clarity or "harshness" when using my HID lights particularly those with higher tempertures-more in the blue spectrum. As I mentioned before though, my GT HDS does seem to provide me with better true to life color--or at least what I beleve to be "true" color. 



Karl


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 13, 2008)

Henry-
Since this thread has been inactive for a few days, I'd like to make a different sort of photo request. I assume the Clicky is currently in either prototype testing or maybe production now, so I'd love to see any photos you could quickly snap of the processes involved, the environment in which they're created, calibration equipment, machinery and tools, etc. Even if you don't want to share any more photos of the Clicky just yet, it'd still be great just to see what the secret HDS laboratory looks like. However, I know you're a man of mystery, so I'll understand if you don't feel like sharing with us a glimpse into the world of our favorite flashlights.


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Aug 13, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> Henry-
> ....I know you're a man of mystery, so I'll understand if you don't feel like sharing with us a glimpse into the world of our favorite flashlights.




that is unfortunately true:mecry:


----------



## Centropolis (Aug 13, 2008)

Sorry if this was discussed already but when they say wider and narrower beam....does anyone know how narrow as it compared to the wider version? I am thinking of getting one and it's going to be the most expensive flashlight in my collection so far. So I have to make the right decisions.


----------



## candlelight001 (Aug 14, 2008)

Assuming its the same as the Twisty, the wider beam is very similar to Novatac beam. The narrower beam has very bright hotspot, good spill, more than L1 on low, great throw. For me though, the contrast between hotspot and spill on the narrow beam is too much, thus I kept the wider beam. Tough choice though.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 14, 2008)

SaturnNyne,

A few years ago I did post some photos of our lab and the EDC power supply being tested under the microscope with all the probes to the scope. The lab setup looks very much the same as it did then. At the moment, I think finishing up production is a bit more important than giving tours.

Cetropolis,

When comparing the narrower beam to the wider beam, if you assume both have the same lumen output, the narrower beam will reach roughly 20% further than the wider beam while providing the same beam spot illumination. Another way to say this is that if the wider beam will illuminate an object at 100 feet to x lumens, the narrower beam will illuminate the same object at 120 feet to x lumens. The tradeoff is that at 100 feet, the narrower beam illuminates fewer square feet in the central beam. Since you are starting with the same number of photons, it comes down to how you distribute them.

Henry.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 14, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> SaturnNyne,
> 
> A few years ago I did post some photos of our lab and the EDC power supply being tested under the microscope with all the probes to the scope. The lab setup looks very much the same as it did then. At the moment, I think finishing up production is a bit more important than giving tours.


That's about what I figured, but thanks for responding. I'm sorry I missed those photos the first time. I hope they're still up, I'll have to try to find them sometime.

On the subject of beam differences, I'd just like to absolutely confirm what you and others seem to be describing; are the narrow and wide beams actually the same total width as far as spill goes? I'm a little confused on this matter. Long ago, you told someone looking for a beam similar to the original EDCs that the Tw would be more like it than the Tr, but it now sounds like the more focused Tr beam is closer to the HDS in beam distribution, the Tw has a more flood-oriented beam like the Novatac, and both have the same total beam width as the NT (based on my own comparison of 120P to 85Tr). So "wider" and "narrower" are just descriptions of the spot and degree of focus, not of the beam as a whole?

To further clarify, here's the comparison shot I took of the 85Tr against my 120P and B42. It does a good job of showing the difference in spill width, but its representation of the beam characteristics and outputs is a little misleading; the 120P actually has much smoother spot to spill transition than is shown here and I don't think the B42 actually looks that much dimmer. It's also a little skewed due to being shot from the right side.


----------



## Centropolis (Aug 14, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Cetropolis,
> 
> When comparing the narrower beam to the wider beam, if you assume both have the same lumen output, the narrower beam will reach roughly 20% further than the wider beam while providing the same beam spot illumination. Another way to say this is that if the wider beam will illuminate an object at 100 feet to x lumens, the narrower beam will illuminate the same object at 120 feet to x lumens. The tradeoff is that at 100 feet, the narrower beam illuminates fewer square feet in the central beam. Since you are starting with the same number of photons, it comes down to how you distribute them.
> 
> Henry.



Thanks for spending the time to explain this. I understand everything you're saying so far. However, I guess what I want to know now is how much less square feet am I losing with the narrow beam? For example, let's say the wider beam span is 10 meters across at 100 feet (don't worry about if I am accurate or not because I am sure it's wrong ) Will the narrow beam span be 50% (5 meters) of that at the same distance? less or more than 50%?


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 18, 2008)

Looks like some recent updates to the Ra Clicky page on the HDS site. 

One thing that caught my eye:
_"The wide and sturdy deep carry bezel-up pocket clip allows you to clip the light to a hat brim for convenient hands-free use. The design is MOLLE compatible and contains a retaining feature to help prevent accidental draws."

_Bezel-up carry!! Yay! :tinfoil:


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 18, 2008)

SaturnNyne, Centropolis,

There are two parts to the beam. The first part is the central hot spot. Second part is the outer lower level region that ends at the bezel shadow.

The central hot spot and the transition to the outer area is created by the reflector. There are a lot of factors that affect the hot spot and transition. The primary factors are the size and depth of the reflector, the reflector surface finish, how closely the light source approximates a point source and the alignment of the apparent point source to the focal point. A perfect parabola with a perfect point source in perfect alignment will generate a beam that is the same diameter as the reflector and does not diverge. But nothing is perfect and in this case, perfection is not even desirable.

All real beams diverge once the beam leaves the reflector - i.e., the beam gets larger with distance. As a result, all real beams are governed by the inverse square law - if you go twice as far from the source, the beam will be twice a large (across) and cover 4 times the surface area and thus will be 1/4 as bright.

The quick answer to your question is that if you have two otherwise identical beams and one goes 20% further than the other (i.e., same surface lux measurement at the two distances), the "longer" beam will illuminate roughly 91% of the surface area of the shorter beam at the same distance. In other words, the wider beam is roughly 4% wider and covers roughly 9% more surface area. Very roughly.

The outer lower level regions of both beams are about the same since the geometry between the LED and the bezel are the same for both. The bezel's shadow is the limiting factor. The original EDC did have a larger outer lower area because the bezel had a larger internal diameter.

Henry.


----------



## thermal guy (Aug 18, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> SaturnNyne, Centropolis,
> 
> There are two parts to the beam. The first part is the central hot spot. Second part is the outer lower level region that ends at the bezel shadow.
> 
> ...



Is it just me or does it sound like this man knows what he is talking about!


----------



## Kid9P (Aug 18, 2008)

I just got goosebumps reading Henry's post


----------



## thermal guy (Aug 18, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> I just got goosebumps reading Henry's post



Me too and i didn't even understand it


----------



## tricker (Aug 18, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Is it just me or does it sound like this man knows what he is talking about!



doesn't sound like his first rodeo


----------



## russtang (Aug 18, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Me too and i didn't even understand it


 
:laughing::laughing:


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 18, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> The outer lower level regions of both beams are about the same since the geometry between the LED and the bezel are the same for both. The bezel's shadow is the limiting factor. The original EDC did have a larger outer lower area because the bezel had a larger internal diameter.


Thank you for answering that, Henry. I misunderstood the descriptions given on the site and figured the two LEDs either used different reflectors or had different focal points, allowing the wide-beam models to have a larger spill and not just a wider spot. I see you've also clarified the descriptions on the detail pages by specifying that it refers only to the central beam.


----------



## Stillphoto (Aug 18, 2008)

Henry, thanks for breaking out the inverse square law here. Definitely a piece of knowledge all cpf'ers should understand. I learned it during my view camera class and employ it almost daily.


----------



## Moka (Aug 19, 2008)

Aarrghhhhh!!!

High school physics and maths coming back to haunt my... Come to think of it my Physics teacher's first name was Henry... Been to Australia in the last few year.. lol


----------



## smokelaw1 (Aug 19, 2008)

Thank you Henry and CPF fopr making someone as dumb as me able to play and work with lights buibuilt with this level of smarts behind them.


----------



## orcinus (Aug 19, 2008)

I don't get it... What's all the rave about? :thinking:


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 19, 2008)

:sleepy: I just awoke from a dream about using my Clicky to stop a terrorist plot. It made me hope that it does indeed include a plot-stopping option. I'm pretty excited to get this light. Maayybe a little too excited.


----------



## smokelaw1 (Aug 19, 2008)

orcinus said:


> I don't get it... What's all the rave about? :thinking:


 
To what do you refer? The general level of interest in this light? Hold a HDS light...use it for a few days...DEPEND on it. Then there will be no question as to why we are all going crazy for this light.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 19, 2008)

orcinus said:


> I don't get it... What's all the rave about? :thinking:


:nana:


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 19, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> :sleepy: I just awoke from a dream about using my Clicky to stop a terrorist plot.



... Luckily it was only a dream...


----------



## bmstrong (Aug 19, 2008)

These should start shipping soon, yes?


----------



## karlthev (Aug 19, 2008)

I'm sure hoping so!


Karl


----------



## orcinus (Aug 19, 2008)

smokelaw1 said:


> To what do you refer? The general level of interest in this light? Hold a HDS light...use it for a few days...DEPEND on it. Then there will be no question as to why we are all going crazy for this light.



Hold your horses, who said anything about the light?
I'm referring to the previous dozen of posts raving about Henry's post.


----------



## smokelaw1 (Aug 19, 2008)

My bad...totally misunderstood your post.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 20, 2008)

I just went to batterystation's site (to pull the trigger) and the HDS/Ra section is down. I wonder if they're updating it...


----------



## senna94 (Aug 20, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> I just went to batterystation's site (to pull the trigger) and the HDS/Ra section is down. I wonder if they're updating it...



It could be that our prayer's have been answered and BS is no longer a dealer. To further the fantasy, maybe LH is now once again carrying HDS products!!! Well, it is nice to dream.
:devil:


----------



## dixemon (Aug 21, 2008)

senna94 said:


> It could be that our prayer's have been answered and BS is no longer a dealer. To further the fantasy, maybe LH is now once again carrying HDS products!!! Well, it is nice to dream.
> :devil:



+1 I have always had a more responsive dealing with lighthound, shipping ect..

I am very much anticipating this light. More pics of the clip and light would be very much appreciated!


----------



## notamchris (Aug 21, 2008)

Ok, so I notice that the OSRAM’s Golden Dragon Plus LED does not have the red led in it anymore but seems to be a equal or better emitter than the Cree with the benefit of no rings in the beam and higher CRI.

Link to a 4seven's announcement about the Nightcore lights which are going to use that emitter: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=182549

I am wondering if this is going to be the emitter in the Ra-100-Cn and Ra-120-Cn. Henry mentioned that the “Cn” lights would not be able to have a low red, so it sounds like it! If so, that could be a pretty nice light!


----------



## orcinus (Aug 21, 2008)

notamchris said:


> Henry mentioned that the “Cn” lights would not be able to have a low red, so it sounds like it! If so, that could be a pretty nice light!



He did?
AFAIR, none of the Clickies will have the red low. :thinking:


----------



## m16a (Aug 21, 2008)

Can't wait for amazing light.... Must have ra clicky arrive SOON!!!!!!!!


Oh yeah, all that stuff I said about the novatac UI being bad, forget it. I didn't understand it, now I do(thanks luxlover). So yes, I'm looking more forward to the clicky now:twothumbs


----------



## matrixshaman (Aug 21, 2008)

senna94 said:


> It could be that our prayer's have been answered and BS is no longer a dealer. To further the fantasy, maybe LH is now once again carrying HDS products!!! Well, it is nice to dream.
> :devil:



Not sure why you have anything against batterstation but I think he's always been one of the good guys. Lighthound is great also but he does not seem to carry Henry's lights now. I still see the Ra Clicky at batterystation : Link


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 21, 2008)

Yes, it's back up for me too. However when I tried earlier today it was still down. Maybe a glitch...


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 22, 2008)

The cutaway picture of the Clicky is up on the details page. Not huge news, but it's a sign that things are moving along.


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Aug 22, 2008)

I am not finding the cutaway photo you mention. Do you have a link?


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Aug 22, 2008)

Scratch that, I just found it.

http://www.ralights.com/?id=ClickyDetails


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 22, 2008)

From looking at the schematics, there doesn't appear to be a large spring from the tailcap to the head which conducts the button presses. 

Would I be correct in saying that the button presses are interacting with the electronics by means of the battery terminals? Or is there some stationary metal contact that runs down the interior of the body?


----------



## SolarFlare (Aug 22, 2008)

From the description below the picture you were looking at


_The battery case interior has no protrusions that can cause damage to the battery case during severe impacts. *Large conductive threads are used to efficiently transmit power from the battery compartment to the head*. The threads use a special non-conducting aerospace grease to prevent galling and to maintain a low resistance contact path. We supply extra grease with each flashlight so you can properly maintain the threads. _


----------



## orcinus (Aug 22, 2008)

He was asking about the signal path, not power path.
I.e. the low-current electrical path carrying signals from the switch to the head (ala Novatac spring), not the high-current path from the negative battery terminal to the head.

@Enzo - there seems to be a tube of some sort around the battery. Look just above number 11. I bet that's the signal path...


----------



## SolarFlare (Aug 22, 2008)

I bet you're probably right like the description states

_The battery case interior has no protrusions
_


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 22, 2008)

orcinus,

Yeah, I see that little sliver of a line that travels the length of the tube.. So if that's the signal path, then I guess I wonder if it's permanently affixed to the interior of the tube, or if it is some kind of solid sheath that can slide in and out.


----------



## senna94 (Aug 22, 2008)

orcinus said:


> He was asking about the signal path, not power path.
> I.e. the low-current electrical path carrying signals from the switch to the head (ala Novatac spring), not the high-current path from the negative battery terminal to the head.
> 
> @Enzo - there seems to be a tube of some sort around the battery. Look just above number 11. I bet that's the signal path...



Orcinus,

Every time I read one of your posts I hear McCoy's voice and see his manerisms. It is just too weird for me. LOL!!!!!!!

Cheers,
Paul


----------



## Henk_Lu (Aug 22, 2008)

LLCoolBeans said:


> Scratch that, I just found it.
> 
> http://www.ralights.com/?id=ClickyDetails



... and I just can't wait to get one of these precious, which I plan to EDC! :wave:

Henk


----------



## orcinus (Aug 22, 2008)

senna94 said:


> Every time I read one of your posts I hear McCoy's voice and see his manerisms. It is just too weird for me. LOL!!!!!!!



Dammit, Paul! :laughing:




Enzo Morocioli said:


> So if that's the signal path, then I guess I wonder if it's permanently affixed to the interior of the tube, or if it is some kind of solid sheath that can slide in and out.



That's what's been bugging me too. If it really is a tube, it will be an interesting twist to the way PD and LF5XT are designed - battery tube as a signal path and the flashlight body as a power path, instead of vice versa.


----------



## BBL (Aug 24, 2008)

Yesterday, i had my longbow micra in my hands after long time in the drawer, and i realized it has to have exactly the same dimensions as the clicky: 25x94mm. It wasnt too big for a 1x123 light back then, so the clickys size should be ok


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Aug 25, 2008)

Well, it seems the discussion has slowed to impulse on this thread. I guess we're all just anxiously awaiting either: 1) our lights, or; 2) reviews of the Clicky.

I just finished EDCing my Twisty on an island all last week. It went swimming with me more than once and it took a bit of abuse, but I never worried about it working when I needed it -- and I needed it every day. There were times, however, when a clicky interface would have been handier. I can't wait for my new light.


----------



## The Coach (Aug 25, 2008)

I think my calendar is broken, is it late August yet? :thinking:


----------



## senna94 (Aug 25, 2008)

The Coach said:


> I think my calendar is broken, is it late August yet? :thinking:



Realistically I think we are looking at mid to late September. As long as they are out before Halloween I am okay with it.

Paul


----------



## tricker (Aug 25, 2008)

seems like henry would have updated the site if he plans to release them later....so i'm still keeping faith in him


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 25, 2008)

tricker said:


> seems like henry would have updated the site if he plans to release them later....so i'm still keeping faith in him



I have confidence that Henry will release the light as soon as he can. However, I wouldn't base my ETA off the website, particularly if the Twisty's journey to market is any sort of precedent.


----------



## The Coach (Aug 25, 2008)

Well, considering how much I've spent on lights (and knives) this month, late September is good, too.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 26, 2008)

Tricker,

We have a couple of vendors that are running a couple of weeks behind schedule so that will push our first ship over into September. We have been working hard to minimize schedule slips but sometimes things happen that are beyond our control. The web site will probably get updated around the end of the week.

Henry.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 26, 2008)




----------



## NoFair (Aug 26, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Tricker,
> 
> We have a couple of vendors that are running a couple of weeks behind schedule so that will push our first ship over into September. We have been working hard to minimize schedule slips but sometimes things happen that are beyond our control. The web site will probably get updated around the end of the week.
> 
> Henry.


 
Thanks for the update Henry.

Sverre


----------



## HoopleHead (Aug 26, 2008)

well, at least theres light at the end of the tunnel!


----------



## tricker (Aug 26, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Tricker,
> 
> We have a couple of vendors that are running a couple of weeks behind schedule so that will push our first ship over into September. We have been working hard to minimize schedule slips but sometimes things happen that are beyond our control. The web site will probably get updated around the end of the week.
> 
> Henry.




No complains here, I'm anxious but I know it'll be worth waiting for and these things are out of your hands....but thanks much for the update

Travis


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 26, 2008)

Hurray! I get a little more time to patiently enjoy my current EDC before it's rendered obsolete!


----------



## Kid9P (Aug 26, 2008)

No problem Henry. I'll forgive you if you post a picture of the clip...LOL

No worries, things happen.


----------



## Doug (Aug 26, 2008)

Can someone please explain what all he variations of this light are...
Ra-100-C	Ra-120-C	Ra-100-Cgt	Ra-120-Cgt	Ra-100-Cn	Ra-120-Cn

Obviously GT is Guaranteed Tint, and the 100 and 120's are the lumens... what is the C and CN?

Doug


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Aug 26, 2008)

The CN designation refers to the narrower beam pattern in those lights. Overall output is still 100 or 120lm, but the pattern is somewhat different. I went for the GT, as this is already a pricey light and I want the best tint I can get -- and I'm willing to pay for it -- so if others feel differently, that's OK with me.


ETA: Thanks, Henry, for the update. As with the Twisty (which I also pre-ordered) I'm willing to wait for this light; but I'm still anxious. I believe it will be worth the wait. Just keep us updated when possible.


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Aug 27, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> No problem Henry. I'll forgive you if you post a picture of the clip...LOL



If you notice he says he is waiting on a couple of vendors, I'm guessing one of those vendors is the manufacturer of the clips and that's why their is no photo.


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Aug 27, 2008)

Even a picture of a prototype would give us something to talk about.


----------



## tpchan (Aug 27, 2008)

Dead_Nuts said:


> Even a picture of a prototype would give us something to talk about.


 Not sure what you are really asking for, but at http://ralights.com/?id=Clicky, you'll find a picture of the real Ra Clicky, so I don't know why you need to see pictures of a prototype.


----------



## tricker (Aug 27, 2008)

tpchan said:


> Not sure what you are really asking for, but at http://ralights.com/?id=Clicky, you'll find a picture of the real Ra Clicky, so I don't know why you need to see pictures of a prototype.



the clip; but i don't use them sooo i'm ready for mine


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 27, 2008)

While we wait for more info about the Clicky, I thought I'd write a poem.. 

Ode to Ra Clicky

O' Ra Clicky,
How I adore you.
You have Four user programmable channels,
Damn that's nifty.

Though you're not too small sized,
As such pocket carry may be despised,
Your ergonomic length in hand,
Will be highly prized in my eyes.

Especially sweet is your Burst,
Which for I and many have thirst, 
Eliminating darkness in such elegant style,
Will certainly be a first.

Your dependability is second to none,
Pressing your button automatically equals fun,
Especially for one hundred and twenty lumen an hour you'll run,
A feat to be burning strong even when our work is done.

Thank your creator, O' Clicky,
His knowledge of your design is far superior to ours,
His dedication to illumination and power supply is unparalleled,
And could even be said to rival that of the Sun.

I'm done..
The End.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 27, 2008)

This is getting out of control :duh2:


----------



## dixemon (Aug 27, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> While we wait for more info about the Clicky, I thought I'd write a poem..
> 
> Ode to Ra Clicky
> 
> ...



Oh My! I dont even have words for your sickness.


----------



## Doug (Aug 27, 2008)

A new level of flashaholism has been reached.... I give you the King of Flashaholism:



Enzo Morocioli said:


> While we wait for more info about the Clicky, I thought I'd write a poem..
> 
> Ode to Ra Clicky
> 
> ...


----------



## Haz (Aug 27, 2008)

You deserve a free light for that effort 



Enzo Morocioli said:


> While we wait for more info about the Clicky, I thought I'd write a poem..
> 
> Ode to Ra Clicky
> 
> ...


----------



## Badbeams3 (Aug 27, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> While we wait for more info about the Clicky, I thought I'd write a poem..
> 
> Ode to Ra Clicky
> 
> ...


 
:huh:oo::huh::duh2:oo: :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:  

Now if you could talk like that to the ladies....my oh my :naughty:


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 27, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> O' Ra Clicky,
> How I adore you.


Oh goodness... I brought my good friend Enzo into the world of flashlights, and now it's come to this. He's been skirting the brink for a while; today may be the day he officially went over the edge. 

Part of me is proud of his indomitable enthusiasm. Part of me feels like Obiwan. I will do what I must...



Enzo Morocioli said:


> I'm done..


Yes, perhaps so...


----------



## m16a (Aug 27, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> Part of me feels like Obiwan. I will do what I must...
> 
> 
> Yes, perhaps so...


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 29, 2008)

The Clicky instructions are now up, along with an updated feature chart that includes burst.

Also, for anyone still wondering, as I was, Henry has given me permission to share his explanation of the burst implementation:


Henry said:


> Burst mode operation is both trivial and automatic - from the user's perspective. The flashlight knows about 23 levels internally, starting at either 141 lumens or 170 lumens, depending on the model. By default, the maximum setting is set to level 23. Whenever maximum is selected, the flashlight times out 10 seconds at maximum and then steps the output down to the "advertised" maximum. To turn off burst mode, simply set the maximum setting to level 22. Of course, any setting may be set to level 23 and the same thing will happen whenever that setting is selected. Thus the operation is fully automatic without violating any of the UI rules.
> 
> If burst mode times out and drops you back to level 22, you can always press and hold the button to return to burst mode. You can continually reactivate burst mode by releasing the button and then pressing and holding again. This keeps burst mode a true burst mode - a trivial temporary way to increase the output when the need arises. Burst mode ensures long runtimes while providing additional lumen output if the need arises. Such a need is temporary by its very nature. If it is not temporary, you need a different flashlight.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> The Clicky instructions are now up, along with an updated feature chart that includes burst.
> 
> Also, for anyone still wondering, as I was, Henry has given me permission to share his explanation of the burst implementation:


Wow, I never guessed that it would be done this way. I kind of like it and the explanation makes a lot of sense. I'll check out the documentation :thumbsup:


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 29, 2008)

So...
Questions Answered
- The button is still rubber (I know at least one person was wondering about that).
- The basic UI design from the previous generation was basically preserved.

Question Raised
- Maximum can no longer be latched on? That seems to be the case in at least the default setup.




paxxus said:


> Wow, I never guessed that it would be done this way. I kind of like it and the explanation makes a lot of sense. I'll check out the documentation :thumbsup:


Ah, my good friend Paxxus. You continue to keep a good eye on this thread.

I didn't guess this implementation either (as all can see from my previous attempts to). However, I've come to quite like the timer setup too, after giving it some thought. If you refer back to my three ideas for how it might be done, you'll find that the actual implementation is mostly like my first and simplest idea but the addition of the timer gives it most of the benefits of the other two suggestions as well. A simple and elegant solution.


----------



## lumenlover2 (Aug 29, 2008)

Does thismean the light can be set to 170 lumen output without burst mode? just as a regular setting???


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

lumenlover2 said:


> Does thismean the light can be set to 170 lumen output without burst mode? just as a regular setting???


As far as I understand, yes. But it will only stay at 170 for 10 seconds before stepping down to 120.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> Question Raised
> - Maximum can no longer be latched on? That seems to be the case in at least the default setup.


That cannot possibly be true, it must be a typo in the User Guide. I believe the last bullet in the "From Off" section belongs to the "From On" section since this is how you latch max on the NovaTac. And then I believe the Click-Press is missing from the "From Off" section since this is how you reach momentary on the NovaTac from off.



SaturnNyne said:


> Ah, my good friend Paxxus. You continue to keep a good eye on this thread.


You bet


----------



## orcinus (Aug 29, 2008)

No. 170 lumens _IS _the burst mode.
I.e. the very fact it stays on 170 for only 10 seconds makes it a burst.

To disable the burst, you have to set maximum to one step below 170.

*To make things clearer:*
- if you have max. set to 170 lumens, press and hold switches to 170 lumens for 10 seconds, then drops to first level under 170 and stays there as long as you keep pressing the button
- if you have max. set to one level under 170, press and hold behaves as usual (stays on as long as you keep the button pressed)
- if the Clicky is switched off and max set to 170, press and hold switches it on to 170 for 10 seconds, then to first level under 170 - until you release the button
- if the Clicky is switched off and max is set to under 170, press and hold behaves as usual (until you release the button)

If you want a constant maximum, you have to assign it to one of the modes. If you set it to 170 lumens, you'll get them for 10 seconds and then it will revert to the first level under 170.

Edit: I don't know if you can latch the maximum on ala Novatac (click+press). A constant maximum isn't listed among the commands, but the manual does mention a "click, press, hold, release" type command somewhere in the first paragraphs.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> *To make things clearer:*
> - if you have max. set to 170 lumens, press and hold switches to 170 lumens for 10 seconds, then drops to first level under 170 and stays there as long as you keep pressing the button
> - if you have max. set to one level under 170, press and hold behaves as usual (stays on as long as you keep the button pressed)
> - if the Clicky is switched off and max set to 170, press and hold switches it on to 170 for 10 seconds, then to first level under 170 - until you release the button
> ...


Yes, this also how I would expect it to work, but it isn't entirely obvious from the currently published User Guide


----------



## orcinus (Aug 29, 2008)

Dunno, sounded pretty clear to me... :thinking:


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Dunno, sounded pretty clear to me... :thinking:




"Click, press, hold and release – turns on your flashlight to the maximum
setting."

is supposed to explain that the max is only momentary, it'll turn off as you release the button. Not clear, IMO.

Latching maximum is not explained.

I guess my definition of "pretty clear" differs from yours :thinking:


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 29, 2008)

lumenlover2 said:


> Does thismean the light can be set to 170 lumen output without burst mode? just as a regular setting???


No. As Orcinus said, it means that 170 is in the output menu as a "regular setting," but it _is_ burst mode and does not function as the other levels do.



paxxus said:


> That cannot possibly be true, it must be a typo in the User Guide. I believe the last bullet in the "From Off" section belongs to the "From On" section since this is how you latch max on the NovaTac. And then I believe the Click-Press is missing from the "From Off" section since this is how you reach momentary on the NovaTac from off.


I don't understand what you mean about click-press missing from Off section; it's there and appears to work the same way. I would suggest that the from off and from on click press instructions are simply reversed if not for the "returns to the previous setting when the button is released" under from on. But I can't believe that there'd be no way of latching it on either. I'm guessing that either the instructions are missing a few important words or the ability to latch max will be granted in the options menu.


----------



## m16a (Aug 29, 2008)

So if thats the case, could one be a dim wit and say, make 165 lumens a mode, after all, its under 170, but not really visibly different...:devil:

170 lumen burst is such a sweet thing to have!!!!!!


----------



## orcinus (Aug 29, 2008)

paxxus said:


> "Click, press, hold and release – turns on your flashlight to the maximum
> setting."
> 
> is supposed to explain that the max is only momentary, it'll turn off as you release the button. Not clear, IMO.
> ...



On second thought, i think you were right (and i was wrong).
It says "click, press, hold and release". Not "click, press and hold". Since the manual states the former means "release after 0.3 seconds", while the latter means "keep pressing", it seems like it really does stay latched on in max when triggered from off. Unless it's a typo.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> I don't understand what you mean about click-press missing from Off section; it's there and appears to work the same way.


Yes its there, but the explanation it what happens when you do the Click+Press *from on*, at least on the NovaTac. That's why I think that bullet should have been in the "from on" section. See what I mean?


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> On second thought, i think you were right (and i was wrong).
> It says "click, press, hold and release". Not "click, press and hold". Since the manual states the former means "release after 0.3 seconds", while the latter means "keep pressing", it seems like it really does stay latched on in max when triggered from off. Unless it's a typo.


Yeah, but I think it must be a typo, because if it's not, then you have no momentary from off in the Clicky, which doesn't make sense. Remember, Henry said the the changes would be evolutionary. Changing "momentary max from off" to "latch max from off", and removing the ability (for no apparent reason) to "latch max from on" is rather radical changes and not what I would expect (especially since these are very usefull features).


----------



## lumenlover2 (Aug 29, 2008)

Well that`s a bit sad because in most emergencies you would need the burst mode for at least some minutes( 5 would be o.k. maybe)! 
10 seconds is absolutely useless in 90 % of real life situations. And in a real emergency you won`t have the time nor interest in having to activate it every ! 10 seconds ! again.... 

Henry with just 10 seconds burst it is eigther a gimmick for white wall hunters that want the wow effect or an easy way to cover up technical problems that would arise if 170 would be a regular setting too.

Please think about the burst mode time again... it is indeed a useful feature if it was within a greater timeframe.

A big plus would have been (from many cpfers wished) an extra REGULAR setting above 120 lumen, like the 170 lumen , but for some reason you seem to be trying to avoid that .  Why don`t you offer this???

P.s. Still great work with just these few flaws above.


----------



## HKJ (Aug 29, 2008)

lumenlover2 said:


> Well that`s a bit sad because in most emergencies you would need the burst mode for at least some minutes( 5 would be o.k. maybe)!
> 10 seconds is absolutely useless in 90 % of real life situations. And in a real emergency you won`t have the time nor interest in having to activate it every ! 10 seconds ! again....



I do not agree with your, the 10 second burst is fine for spotting something, it is not for a work light.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

lumenlover2 said:


> A big plus would have been (from many cpfers wished) an extra REGULAR setting above 120 lumen, like the 170 lumen , but for some reason you seem to be trying to avoid that .  Why don`t you offer this???


I have to say that ultimately this is what I would have preferred also. *I* want to be in charge. Yes I know I'm burning through the cell like crazy, but *I* want to decide. Not some timer. Why the Big Brother. Let *ME* decide, damn it!!!

 LOL, I guess we'll have to be grateful for what we get.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> It says "click, press, hold and release". Not "click, press and hold". Since the manual states the former means "release after 0.3 seconds", while the latter means "keep pressing", it seems like it really does stay latched on in max when triggered from off. Unless it's a typo.





paxxus said:


> Yeah, but I think it must be a typo, because if it's not, then you have no momentary from off in the Clicky, which doesn't make sense. Remember, Henry said the the changes would be evolutionary. Changing "momentary max from off" to "latch max from off", and removing the ability (for no apparent reason) to "latch max from on" is rather radical changes and not what I would expect (especially since these are very usefull features).





paxxus said:


> Yes its there, but the explanation it what happens when you do the Click+Press *from on*, at least on the NovaTac. That's why I think that bullet should have been in the "from on" section. See what I mean?


Ok I think I see what you mean now, but keep in mind that, by default, the NovaTac also latches on max from off with a click press if you don't have momentary turned on. That's part of what I was thinking of when I mentioned it possibly being something that would be adjusted in the menu, since momentary/latching of max has been affected by menu settings in the past.


Also, I took a look at an email I received from Henry and, in reference to another question I asked, he does make reference to latching on maximum. So I'm confident it's in there.





lumenlover2 said:


> Well that`s a bit sad because in most emergencies you would need the burst mode for at least some minutes( 5 would be o.k. maybe)!


That's just not even close to being true. I don't think you understand how small the difference between 120 and 170 really is. I can pretty much guarantee you it will never be a life and death difference for anyone in any situation. It adds a little bit of throw that might be useful, but it's basically the smallest difference in output our eyes can clearly detect.



lumenlover2 said:


> 10 seconds is absolutely useless in 90 % of real life situations.


Also not true. I think 10 seconds was actually the example I used when first discussing this feature as an example of how little time is needed. This feature is to give a little extra quick spotting power. As Henry said, if you want more than that, you'll have to get a different light, probably with different power source, size/heatsinking, and priorities.



lumenlover2 said:


> ...an easy way to cover up technical problems that would arise if 170 would be a regular setting too.


That's right, it's not exactly easy to maintain. It's no secret that 170 *could not* be a regular setting and function well for extended periods. Fortunately, there's no reason for it to. In implementing burst in this way, Henry has given us what we wanted but done it in a way that still makes an effort to promote long runtimes, which seems to be very important to him these days. Yes there might be a little bit of a big brother aspect to that, but I doubt the light could maintain the burst output for terribly long even without a timer, so I'm satisfied with the compromise.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

lumenlover2 said:


> Well that`s a bit sad because in most emergencies you would need the burst mode for at least some minutes( 5 would be o.k. maybe)!


5min probably wouldn't be feasible in such a small light since it would heat up and damage the LED.


----------



## orcinus (Aug 29, 2008)

Actually, this burst seems pretty similar to Arc6's level 7.
Except that one's not governed by timer, but temperature, so you can't simply press-hold again to get it back.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Actually, this burst seems pretty similar to Arc6's level 7.
> Except that one's not governed by timer, but temperature, so you can't simply press-hold again to get it back.


And it doesn't run for many minutes either (I don't know what I think about reports of it running for extended periods when handheld, somethings up there, official word is that it shouldn't).


----------



## lumenlover2 (Aug 29, 2008)

paxxus said:


> I have to say that ultimately this is what I would have preferred also. *I* want to be in charge. Yes I know I'm burning through the cell like crazy, but *I* want to decide. Not some timer. Why the Big Brother. Let *ME* decide, damn it!!!
> 
> 
> Yes exactly . As long as it is technically possible(and it should be possible longer then 10 sec.!) let me (the user) decide.


----------



## lumenlover2 (Aug 29, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> Also not true. I think 10 seconds was actually the example I used when first discussing this feature as an example of how little time is needed. This feature is to give a little extra quick spotting power. As Henry said, if you want more than that, you'll have to get a different light, probably with different power source, size/heatsinking, and priorities.
> 
> Get a different light? That`s totally silly. Smaller cr123 based lights with less heatsinking can properly do 150 lumen out the front for alot of minutes without a problem .(see p2d for example)


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Aug 29, 2008)

And the great Burst debate begins!

I can see where 30 seconds to 1 minute might have been quite prudent, but Burst wasn't the main reason I pre-ordered this light anyway. I'll live with it.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Aug 29, 2008)

Burst is a bonus. If you don't like it, disable it and this light is just like the previous generations, only with more output. As Henry says in the manual, if you need it brighter longer, get a different light. 

I also agree that the manual can use a little tweaking, particularly with regard to latching on max from on. 

Everything else looks sweet! This will likely become my favorite light!


----------



## senna94 (Aug 29, 2008)

On a lighter note has anyone noticed that once 2 cell bodies become available you will not be able to run two primary cells. The power supply specs will not support the higher voltage as the HDS EDC lights did. I like having the option of running a 17670 or 18650 as well as a 2 primary cells. Maybe not a huge deal but just an observation. Of course you can use the stock body and run one primary or one RCR123.


----------



## paxxus (Aug 29, 2008)

lumenlover2 said:


> Get a different light? That`s totally silly. Smaller cr123 based lights with less heatsinking can properly do 150 lumen out the front for alot of minutes without a problem .(see p2d for example)


Yes you can get plenty of (semi) cheap China lights which are crazy bright. Will they work reliably for years and years of use without breaking the LED or turning the die brown etc... probably not. As Saturn rightfully pointed out, different priorities.

As to why Henry has chosen to add extra complexity (the timer) with the apparent sole purpose of artificially robbing the user some flexibility, as opposed to just letting the normal thermal protection determine when to step down, we can only speculate. Personally I find it Big Brother'ish, but there can be both technical and marketing reasons behind. My guess is we'll never know.

I myself never use max on my EDCs for very long and only once in a while. On the rare occasion I do use max I just want as much light as possible, period. That's why I wanted a higher max, if it was possible. Runtime is not an issue since I wont use max often and not for very long. But 10 seconds seems on the short side. If there absolutely have to be a timer (again, the reason eludes me) in addition to the normal thermal step-down, 30 to 60 seconds would probably be more desirable for me.

Anyway, it is what it is, and I'm sure it will be good. But we have to whine don't we, it's our job


----------



## senna94 (Aug 29, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> Burst is a bonus. If you don't like it, disable it and this light is just like the previous generations, only with more output. As Henry says in the manual, if you need it brighter longer, get a different light.
> 
> I also agree that the manual can use a little tweaking, particularly with regard to latching on max from on.
> 
> Everything else looks sweet! This will likely become my favorite light!





+1

The intended use of burst mode is only to quickly determine potential perils such as a wild animal, pit or other potentially dangerous condition. Once this determination is made you will probably not want to hang around long. You will in all likelihood be running the other way!!!!!!! Also, during burst mode the energy required to run the LED makes it extremely inefficient and thus not something you would want to leave on for long periods of time. A lot of this energy will be waisted as heat.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 29, 2008)

SaturnNyne,

You found a bug in the manual. Latching on the maximum is still possible. The manual has been corrected.

LumenLover2,

I have to disagree. In a true emergency - you need to identify the problem and act immediately - typically within a second or two. If you hear a noise, it only takes a few seconds to identify the source and determine if you need to run for your life. If you are running for your life, you don't need the absolute brightest setting. If the noise is not dangerous, there is no emergency and re-enabling burst a time or two will not be much of a bother.

I use my light for search and rescue in very rugged terrain and am called upon to find routes for a stretcher when off trail. I use burst mode often in those situations. It is rare that I need burst for more than 5 seconds at a time - and I have timed it. It is just not needed.

The argument to burst or to just have another setting and let it thermal limit has been going on for over 4 years now. No matter which way you do it you will get complaints. The EDC Ultimate had an unlimited higher setting and people complained that the light got hot and thermally limited. If you prevent that problem, people complain that they cannot run the setting until it hits thermal limit. You cannot please everyone. We chose what we think is the most practical solution.

A 10 second burst is very useful and covers 90% of practical situations.

Henry.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Aug 29, 2008)

lumenlover2 said:


> Smaller cr123 based lights with less heatsinking can properly do 150 lumen out the front for alot of minutes without a problem .(see p2d for example)


Not true, and the professional integrating sphere results prove it. Not only do the single cell fenixes not maintain 150 for some minutes, they don't seem to even hit it, falling about 20 short of that.





senna94 said:


> On a lighter note has anyone noticed that once 2 cell bodies become available you will not be able to run two primary cells. The power supply specs will not support the higher voltage as the HDS EDC lights did.


This is unfortunate but not a surprise, neither the Twisty nor NT could take the voltage of the EDCs.





HDS_Systems said:


> SaturnNyne,
> 
> You found a bug in the manual. Latching on the maximum is still possible. The manual has been corrected.


Very glad to hear it, though I figured as much based on what you'd already told me.



HDS_Systems said:


> It is rare that I need burst for more than 5 seconds at a time - and I have timed it. It is just not needed.


Same for me, and I also experimented with timing a little after learning of the 10s limit. I found that in actual use it's a pretty significant amount of time, easily more than the average time I hold my EDCs on momentary max. I'll use it as it's intended to be used and likely not even notice the 10s limit most of the time.



HDS_Systems said:


> No matter which way you do it you will get complaints. The EDC Ultimate had an unlimited higher setting and people complained that the light got hot and thermally limited. If you prevent that problem, people complain that they cannot run the setting until it hits thermal limit. You cannot please everyone.


So very true. I've even heard complaints about lights having thermal safeties at all, because some users want to have the option of damaging their light. That may be acceptable in some custom lights that will be used only be a select few, but I find it an unreasonable request of an expensive production light that will be used by a wide variety of people who may not all pay attention to attached warnings and disclaimers. No matter how good and common sense a feature might seem, none will ever win the support of every user.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 30, 2008)

All,

By popular demand, we made another pass through the Ra Clicky web pages and the User's Guide and modified the terminology. Please take another look and see if you think that minimizes the confusion. We ran the documents past some people who had not seen them and they thought the new wording was quite understandable. When they compared them to the old documents, they thought they are a significant improvement.

We decided to use the terms high, primary, secondary and low for the brightness settings and have stopped using the terms maximum and minimum as it was causing quite a bit of confusion - especially in relation to the burst level. We hope you will find the new wording easy to understand.

Henry.


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Aug 31, 2008)

forgive me my ignorance, but what means “Molle compatible”?


----------



## lumenlover2 (Aug 31, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> The argument to burst or to just have another setting and let it thermal limit has been going on for over 4 years now. No matter which way you do it you will get complaints. The EDC Ultimate had an unlimited higher setting and people complained that the light got hot and thermally limited. If you prevent that problem, people complain that they cannot run the setting until it hits thermal limit. You cannot please everyone. We chose what we think is the most practical solution.
> 
> 
> Of course you can`t please everyone, but if you would make a poll here on cpf and ask the peoples to choose between a thermal regulated burst mode that lasts maybe a few minutes or the 10 second burst mode regulated by you in the factory i am sure the great majority would choose the thermal regulation.
> ...


----------



## gswitter (Aug 31, 2008)

I'm fine with the limited burst mode.

I never use the max mode on my EDCs for more than a few seconds.


----------



## Lightraven (Aug 31, 2008)

MOLLE refers to a nylon strap (about 15mm) sewed to a vest or backpack so that pouches that are MOLLE compatible may be threaded through. This is typically used by U.S. soldiers to attach equipment to their vests and backpacks.


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Aug 31, 2008)

lumenlover2 said:


> ask the peoples to choose between a thermal regulated burst mode that lasts maybe a few minutes or the 10 second burst mode regulated by you in the factory i am sure the great majority would choose the thermal regulation.



Well, first of all "Burst Output" is just that; a burst of the highest non-damaging output possible from the hardware. It is not intended to be sustained. And really, it _is_ being thermally managed! Being disappointed in the 10s time limit is trivial because the user can continue to press for Burst every 10s (which is plenty of time) and the Clicky will keep outputting Burst until the temperature gets too hot.

Also, you're going to have 100/120lm for 1 hour right underneath Burst. Seriously enough light, and just as effective as burst for almost all tasks without the hit on runtime.

If you want more output for longer, carry more than one torch.


----------



## Kid9P (Aug 31, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> All,
> 
> By popular demand, we made another pass through the Ra Clicky web pages and the User's Guide and modified the terminology. Please take another look and see if you think that minimizes the confusion. We ran the documents past some people who had not seen them and they thought the new wording was quite understandable. When they compared them to the old documents, they thought they are a significant improvement.
> 
> ...


 

Works for me Henry :thumbsup:


----------



## orcinus (Aug 31, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> If you want more output for longer, carry more than one torch.



That... sort of... beats the whole idea of EDC, right?


----------



## matrixshaman (Aug 31, 2008)

orcinus said:


> That... sort of... beats the whole idea of EDC, right?



You kidding me aren't you orcinus? You mean you only EDC ONE light?  

BTW sounds great to me with the way Henry has setup the Burst function.


----------



## karlthev (Aug 31, 2008)

I'll pipe up. Ive got several HDSs and a whole bunch of EDCs---this sounds fine by me. I'm afraid that without 17670s or 18650s powering an unlimited burst time from the Ra the CR123s won't have much in the way of runtime. This one works for me.


Karl


----------



## thermal guy (Aug 31, 2008)

senna94 said:


> On a lighter note has anyone noticed that once 2 cell bodies become available you will not be able to run two primary cells. The power supply specs will not support the higher voltage as the HDS EDC lights did. I like having the option of running a 17670 or 18650 as well as a 2 primary cells. Maybe not a huge deal but just an observation. Of course you can use the stock body and run one primary or one RCR123.




+1 you can't beat the way the older hds models let you run anything from AA to 18650.


----------



## StandardBattery (Aug 31, 2008)

Will the 18650 tubes be ready with the first batch of RA-Clickies? Will one be able to buy the light with the 18650 tube, or will the tube always have to be purchased as an accessory?

Thanks!


----------



## orcinus (Aug 31, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> You kidding me aren't you orcinus? You mean you only EDC ONE light?



Ok, you caught me there... Three, actually 
But they are all smaller than a clicky


----------



## senna94 (Aug 31, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> Will the 18650 tubes be ready with the first batch of RA-Clickies? Will one be able to buy the light with the 18650 tube, or will the tube always have to be purchased as an accessory?
> 
> Thanks!



The 18650 tubes will not be available right away if ever. From what I understand 17670 tubes will be available first and probably a month or two after the lights are released. Of course as with most lights if and when they become available they will be sold separately as accessories.


----------



## Casual Flashlight User (Aug 31, 2008)

17670 tubes are more versatile anyway (IMO).

Damn! Even though I am out of this hoby, I *need* Ra 120 CN and an extension tube. :tinfoil:


CFU


----------



## MorpheusT1 (Aug 31, 2008)

Love your lights henry and i will be buying the clicky.

Is there any chance you will make your lights available in HA-Nat again.
Seems like the methods for HA matching have been finalized by other manufacturers.

I really miss the HA-Nat and wish every light made was available in this finish.

Wishful thinking....


Best Regards,
Benny


----------



## StandardBattery (Aug 31, 2008)

senna94 said:


> ... From what I understand 17670 tubes will be available ...


 
I hope your wrong; based on the prototype tubes for the twisty and the comments on the production versions, I'm thinking the first tube will accomodate both 18650 and 17670. 

Although it is common to buy the less standard tube as an accessory the 18650 based lights now are quite common, so I hope RA Lights will be able to offer a stock model with either tube to save the customer a little money.


----------



## russtang (Aug 31, 2008)

The 18670 battery tubes that will be available very soon, will be for the Ra Twisty.
They will not work on the Ra Clicky.

There very well may be some 18670 tubes for the Clicky, but they will be down the road.

Hope that helps.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Aug 31, 2008)

StandardBattery,

We are planning other battery cases for the Ra Clicky. Currently on the list are the 17670 (sooner) and 2xAA (a bit later). They are planned to be available a few months following the initial release of the Ra Clicky. We are currently working on a web page that will allow you to custom configure a Ra Clicky but that will probably be several months before it is operational. In the mean time, other battery cases will be sold as accessories.

You have to remember that the Ra Clicky and the Ra Twisty are very different flashlights and have very different mechanical requirements. Just because one accessory is available on one does not mean that the same accessory will be available on the other.

Orcinus,

If you could leave one of those three at home, I bet the total size, weight and convenience of the Ra Clicky would more than make up for it. And with a bit of thought, I bet you could replace all 3 with a Ra Clicky.

OK, I admit, I do have a bit of a bias. 

MorpheusT1,

We do not have any active plans for natural Hard Anodize III, but once we get the customized flashlight page up and running, we will certainly consider it as one of the options.

Henry.


----------



## matrixshaman (Aug 31, 2008)

russtang said:


> The 18670 battery tubes that will be available very soon, will be for the Ra Twisty.
> They will not work on the Ra Clicky.
> 
> There very well may be some 18670 tubes for the Clicky, but they will be down the road.
> ...



Did you intend to say 18650? or maybe 17670? Or is an 18670 tube one that works for both 18650 and 17670 batteries? (which would be very nice)


----------



## russtang (Sep 1, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> StandardBattery,
> 
> We are planning other battery cases for the Ra Clicky. Currently on the list are the 17670 (sooner) and 2xAA (a bit later). They are planned to be available a few months following the initial release of the Ra Clicky. We are currently working on a web page that will allow you to custom configure a Ra Clicky but that will probably be several months before it is operational. In the mean time, other battery cases will be sold as accessories.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks Henry. I'm looking forward to the 2AA tube.

matrixshaman, The battery tubes for the Ra Twisty are 18670. You can use rolled paper or plastic sleeve etc, to take up the space for the o.d. difference, and use 17670.

I don't think anything has changed with these in the last week or so.


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 1, 2008)

Sorry, but do there exist some more pictures about the new Ra Clicky??? :tinfoil:


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 1, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> We are planning other battery cases for the Ra Clicky. Currently on the list are the 17670 (sooner) and 2xAA (a bit later).


I'll ask the obvious question: why does the Twisty get an 18670 and the Clicky a 17670? Is the construction of the Clicky different enough that the 18mm diameter is impossible? (Ok, I'm subtly asking if it's because the Clicky uses some kind of sleeve to transmit signals from tail to head.)

Also, good to see a 2AA body, I'm sure that will be a very useful option for some.


----------



## StandardBattery (Sep 1, 2008)

senna94, Henry,
Thanks for the clarification, sorry if added some confusion, I have not been able to keep up with all the details. 

Henry, 

You may want to consider using Italics to emphasize the terms 'primary', 'secondary', 'high', and 'low' to indicate that these have specific meaning in relation to your product.

I also think it would be helpful in the Introduction, or maybe better a short *Overview* section, to explain the multiple level capability first. Maybe... 



> The RA Clicky Flashlight is capable of four different output levels to match the light required to the task and the ambient light level. Simple single button operation allows the switching between the different output levels. For even further flexibility and customization of the flashlight to a specific task, each of the output levels can be precisely set to any desired level with the range of the flashlight.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Sep 1, 2008)

SaturnNyne,

The construction is different enough to cause problems.

StandardBattery,

We appreciate the feedback and continue to work on the documentation. The documentation has been updated.

Henry.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Sep 1, 2008)

Any updates from the component vendors?


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 1, 2008)

In case no one's noticed yet, the Secondary level default outputs have been decided on and included in the new version of the manual. 42 for the 120s, 30 for 100s.


----------



## ChocolateLab33 (Sep 1, 2008)

How far into September do we have to wait for this light?

Anybody?


----------



## senna94 (Sep 1, 2008)

ChocolateLab33 said:


> How far into September do we have to wait for this light?
> 
> Anybody?



ChocolateLab33,

I believe we should realistically start to see these in dealers hands around the third week of September. This puts them in our hands around the end of the month.

Paul


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Sep 1, 2008)

Is that speculation or do you know something we don't?


----------



## StandardBattery (Sep 1, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> ... The documentation has been updated. ...


Nice. You may also want to think about the first warning. It uses the term LEDs which up to this point in the manual have never been mentioned. I would think for the average customer simply refering to the flashlight or light, might be more clear.




> *Warning**:* LEDs on the higher brightness levels are very bright. Looking directly into the LEDs must be avoided. Your light can be intense enough to injure your eyes.​


----------



## ChocolateLab33 (Sep 1, 2008)

senna94 said:


> ChocolateLab33,
> 
> I believe we should realistically start to see these in dealers hands around the third week of September. This puts them in our hands around the end of the month.
> 
> Paul


 

Thanks!


----------



## senna94 (Sep 1, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> Nice. You may also want to think about the first warning. It uses the term LEDs which up to this point in the manual have never been mentioned. I would think for the average customer simply refering to the flashlight or light, might be more clear.





Average customer????????????  I don't believe anyone buying an HDS will be an "average" customer!!!!!!!!!


----------



## StandardBattery (Sep 1, 2008)

senna94 said:


> Average customer????????????  I don't believe anyone buying an HDS will be an "average" customer!!!!!!!!!


 
_"Average HDS Customer"_ Not average person or average consumer in general (if you even could spec an average for that). I would agree though that maybe even the average HDS customer (more than 50%) would understand, but a good manuals tries to presuppose a minimum of prior knowledge and even less domain specfic knowledge. Since it is just a suggestion there is no harm done. A lot of people that need a good light don't really follow the technology behind them.


----------



## Illumination (Sep 1, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> StandardBattery,
> 
> We are planning other battery cases for the Ra Clicky. Currently on the list are the 17670 (sooner) and 2xAA (a bit later). They are planned to be available a few months following the initial release of the Ra Clicky.



Any plan for battery cases for the Twisty?


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Sep 1, 2008)

Illumination said:


> Any plan for battery cases for the Twisty?


Yes.. but go check out the Ra Twisty part 2 thread for that info..


----------



## Daniel_sk (Sep 1, 2008)

This is the only flashlight I am (currently ) looking forward to. I have tried Fenix, Surefire, Nitecore, (Zebralight) but it's no comparision to HDS. And where else can you chat directly with the owner of the company? 

I like the burst output idea, 10 seconds is OK for me - I use my light for short bursts (below 10 seconds) most of the time.


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Sep 1, 2008)

It would be very unfortunate if the clicky was stuck with a 17670 as opposed to 18650 (18670 size). I plan on buying a twisty exclusively because it offers an 18650 compatible tube; and I was looking forward to a clickie with 18650s someday in the future. Oh well, still doesn't change the fact that it looks to be an incredible light. Thanks for keeping up the communication with us HDS.


----------



## Stillphoto (Sep 1, 2008)

Eh, personally I have both 18650's and 17670's, so either way sounds good to me! 

Now it's just time to wait for the initial wave to be over. Then I'll figure out what to buy.


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 1, 2008)

Does noone know if there exist some more pictures about the Ra Clicky???? :candle:


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Sep 2, 2008)

toby_pra said:


> Does noone know if there exist some more pictures about the Ra Clicky???? :candle:



Not yet... We have to be patient no matter what..


----------



## orcinus (Sep 2, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Orcinus,
> 
> If you could leave one of those three at home, I bet the total size, weight and convenience of the Ra Clicky would more than make up for it. And with a bit of thought, I bet you could replace all 3 with a Ra Clicky.



LOL 
I can distribute the three (one of them is a keychain) over multiple pockets 

Anyways, you don't have to convince me, i'm already on the edge about buying a Clicky. It's just that i've been overspending on flashlights these past two months, so Clicky will have to wait a month or two (depending on when it will hit the market)


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 2, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Anyways, you don't have to convince me, i'm already on the edge about buying a Clicky. It's just that i've been overspending on flashlights these past two months, so Clicky will have to wait a month or two (depending on when it will hit the market)


You may be overspending, but you've also been getting overcustomsed, overFedExed, and generally overmisfortuned. :shakehead You're my official flashaholic sob story of the month, mate. But welcome to Club Clicky, I hope it'll help you put your bad light luck behind you.


----------



## senna94 (Sep 2, 2008)

orcinus said:


> LOL
> I can distribute the three (one of them is a keychain) over multiple pockets
> 
> Anyways, you don't have to convince me, i'm already on the edge about buying a Clicky. It's just that i've been overspending on flashlights these past two months, so Clicky will have to wait a month or two (depending on when it will hit the market)



Clicky have to wait???????? That is proposterous!!! I think the kidney transplant takes a back seat to the clicky!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## orcinus (Sep 3, 2008)

Thank you for making me feel like a flashaholic lost cause... :laughing:


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 3, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Thank you for making me feel like a flashaholic lost cause... :laughing:


All is not lost, you just need to hope for better fortune and move to a country that's better prepared to handle your light purchasing needs. :laughing:


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 4, 2008)

This is beginning to take some hard-core patience. But, hey, I got in early on the Twisty and waited that out. They say waiting builds character, after all.


----------



## manoloco (Sep 4, 2008)

yup, patience builds character, if you can hold your patience, if not, it can bring out the worst in you.

i can understand why everybody is so eagerly awaiting the clicky, but you should know Henry by now, the way he works, he is not going to rush anything, and theres plenty of info in the forums that we can read, and a lot more things we can do outside the forum too.

i say this because i get a little anxious when i see something i like and want to have it, but have learned to control that a little, it feels better, believe me.

also be careful with that anxiety, tends to send energy towards procrastination, even if you take 5 or 10 min.

Hell i waited 1 year to buy a SF L1, it was already available, but decided to get a Novatac first, then save (i dont make much money) and wait for a good sale on the marketplace.

i totally forgot about it at the week of deciding that, then almost a year after, i see an L1 on the marketplace at a good price, and took it 

have patience, doesnt only build character, it has a lot of rewards in other things in life, just dont confuse patience with procrastination.

sorry for the offtopic, just thought this could be a little useful to those on the waiting line.


----------



## Oddjob (Sep 4, 2008)

The way I see it, we have seen this before so when I saw August as the availability date I figured maybe September or October. Good things to those who wait I suppose.


----------



## Steve L (Sep 5, 2008)

IIRC The twisty was originally supposed to come out before the kids went back to school(September). I believe a few were released at the end of December. The Ra Clickys won't be released until Henry thinks there ready.:twothumbs


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 5, 2008)

I'm not really complaining. My past experience tells me that I will not be disappointed with this light. That makes the wait tolerable.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Sep 5, 2008)

Steve L said:


> IIRC The twisty was originally supposed to come out before the kids went back to school(September). I believe a few were released at the end of December. The Ra Clickys won't be released until Henry thinks there ready.:twothumbs



The Twisty was "due" before Christmas '07 but didn't ship pre-orders until April '08. However, I agree that the Clicky will be here as soon as Henry can reasonably deliver them.


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Sep 8, 2008)

patience and tolerance are my strengths :devil:

(found this old Thread on page 3)


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 8, 2008)

RainerWahnsinn said:


> patience and tolerance are my strengths :devil:


Cause you know it's gr8 2 w8?


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Sep 8, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> Cause you know it's gr8 2 w8?



yessss


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Sep 8, 2008)

... I had a dream last night about a Ra Clicky.. I remember looking down at the emitter, and seeing it produce light from one end of the visible spectrum to the other. It was amazing, but I couldn't figure out how to change to different output levels. Shining it around in the dream was like shining a Technicolor Rainbow on everything.

So... basically...I hope production goes as smoothly as possible, so we can get some of these lights in our hands soon. And so I can stop dreaming about it.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Sep 8, 2008)

Would it help the wait if you could get the Ra Clicky electronics in one of the original "prototype" bodies?

We did a pilot run of bodies a year ago before we decided to completely redesign the flashlight. We have decided to build out those bodies and get them out of inventory while we are waiting for the late Ra Clicky parts. They will be sold as collectable prototypes. There are fewer than 100 of these bodies available and they will simply be marked with RaLights.com and a serial number. The parts use the same threads as the Ra Twisty and Ra Clicky but the parts are not interchangeable. They will have a 1 hour rating of 100 lumens and have the same user interface and features as the Ra Clicky Ra-100-C. The bezel is stainless steel and uses the same basic design as other after market crenelated bezels available for the EDC Ultimate. The prototypes used the thinner glass lens without shock mounting so the prototype lenses can break if you drop the light, but at least the lens is easily replaced since the bezel and threads remain undamaged.

If you are interested in one of these prototypes, send us an e-mail.

Henry.


----------



## matrixshaman (Sep 8, 2008)

Email on the way


----------



## dixemon (Sep 8, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Would it help the wait if you could get the Ra Clicky electronics in one of the original "prototype" bodies?
> 
> We did a pilot run of bodies a year ago before we decided to completely redesign the flashlight. We have decided to build out those bodies and get them out of inventory while we are waiting for the late Ra Clicky parts. They will be sold as collectable prototypes. There are fewer than 100 of these bodies available and they will simply be marked with RaLights.com and a serial number. The parts use the same threads as the Ra Twisty and Ra Clicky but the parts are not interchangeable. They will have a 1 hour rating of 100 lumens and have the same user interface and features as the Ra Clicky Ra-100-C. The bezel is stainless steel and uses the same basic design as other after market crenelated bezels available for the EDC Ultimate. The prototypes used the thinner glass lens without shock mounting so the prototype lenses can break if you drop the light, but at least the lens is easily replaced since the bezel and threads remain undamaged.
> 
> ...



How's about a Picture Henry


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Sep 8, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Would it help the wait if you could get the Ra Clicky electronics in one of the original "prototype" bodies?
> 
> We did a pilot run of bodies a year ago before we decided to completely redesign the flashlight. We have decided to build out those bodies and get them out of inventory while we are waiting for the late Ra Clicky parts. They will be sold as collectable prototypes. There are fewer than 100 of these bodies available and they will simply be marked with RaLights.com and a serial number. The parts use the same threads as the Ra Twisty and Ra Clicky but the parts are not interchangeable. They will have a 1 hour rating of 100 lumens and have the same user interface and features as the Ra Clicky Ra-100-C. The bezel is stainless steel and uses the same basic design as other after market crenelated bezels available for the EDC Ultimate. The prototypes used the thinner glass lens without shock mounting so the prototype lenses can break if you drop the light, but at least the lens is easily replaced since the bezel and threads remain undamaged.
> 
> ...




Hmmm...

So, are these availible now!? I live in Tucson. Is it possible to arrange a pickup?


----------



## Mike D (Sep 8, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Would it help the wait if you could get the Ra Clicky electronics in one of the original "prototype" bodies?
> 
> We did a pilot run of bodies a year ago before we decided to completely redesign the flashlight. We have decided to build out those bodies and get them out of inventory while we are waiting for the late Ra Clicky parts. They will be sold as collectable prototypes. There are fewer than 100 of these bodies available and they will simply be marked with RaLights.com and a serial number. The parts use the same threads as the Ra Twisty and Ra Clicky but the parts are not interchangeable. They will have a 1 hour rating of 100 lumens and have the same user interface and features as the Ra Clicky Ra-100-C. The bezel is stainless steel and uses the same basic design as other after market crenelated bezels available for the EDC Ultimate. The prototypes used the thinner glass lens without shock mounting so the prototype lenses can break if you drop the light, but at least the lens is easily replaced since the bezel and threads remain undamaged.
> 
> ...


 
Very interested, E-mail sent.


----------



## karlthev (Sep 8, 2008)

E-mail sent Henry, I would like one.



Karl


----------



## :)> (Sep 8, 2008)

Email inbound!


----------



## GRoLED (Sep 8, 2008)

E-mail sent!


----------



## FredericoFreire (Sep 8, 2008)

E-mail sent!


----------



## wvaltakis2 (Sep 8, 2008)

Email sent, pretty sure I can convince my wife I need one of these. Do you have any pics of the protype lights? Also, will there be ANY way to run a different size battery tube and what emitter will be used in these?

~Chip


----------



## Reima (Sep 8, 2008)

Email sent.
RC


----------



## Kid9P (Sep 8, 2008)

Email Sent....:thumbsup:


----------



## HDS_Systems (Sep 8, 2008)

Wvaltakis2,

There are no photos at this time. There are no accessory parts - including battery tubes. It uses the same emitter as the Ra-100-C.

Henry.


----------



## edumacated (Sep 8, 2008)

email (re: prototype clicky) sent.


----------



## wvaltakis2 (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks Henry:twothumbs Last question I swear, does that mean it has the wide beam as opposed to the 120-Cn?

~Chip


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 9, 2008)

wvaltakis2 said:


> Last question I swear, does that mean it has the wide beam as opposed to the 120-Cn?


That's correct.


----------



## karlthev (Sep 9, 2008)

I realize Henry just MAY have a thing or two to do beside respond to inquiries but, has anyone received a response to a request to purchase one of the Ra prototypes?



Karl


----------



## m16a (Sep 9, 2008)

Sheesh you guys have no patience. just wait for the real ra clicky to come out!!!:nana:


----------



## Reima (Sep 9, 2008)

karlthev said:


> I realize Henry just MAY have a thing or two to do beside respond to inquiries but, has anyone received a response to a request to purchase one of the Ra prototypes?
> 
> 
> 
> Karl



Yes, I received an email from Henry today.
RC


----------



## SolarFlare (Sep 9, 2008)

You might have got a faster response if you had asked here a month ago


----------



## karlthev (Sep 9, 2008)

You mean there's *ANOTHER* Ra Clickey!!!!??????:huh::duh2::wow:



Karl


----------



## Reima (Sep 9, 2008)

SolarFlare said:


> You might have got a faster response if you had asked here a month ago


Seeing as I send Henry an email last evening and got a response this afternoon I consider it pretty good going.
RC


----------



## SolarFlare (Sep 9, 2008)

Reima said:


> Seeing as I send Henry an email last evening and got a response this afternoon I consider it pretty good going.
> RC




You don't quite get it.

From Henry on August 14th 

"In addition to the Ra Clicky flashlights, we will be offering a small number of the original prototypes that used the original body style. We did a small run of that body style last year prior to doing a totally clean sheet design. These will simply be referred to as prototypes and they will be sold as prototypes. They will have the new power supply and the new software and do everything the Ra Clicky can do. The difference is in the body styling."


----------



## karlthev (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm guessing you mean an EARLIER vs. a faster response...yes? Whatever, so far for me NO response!:shakehead


Karl


----------



## Reima (Sep 9, 2008)

karlthev said:


> I'm guessing you mean an EARLIER vs. a faster response...yes?
> 
> 
> Karl


That's exactly what I was thinking.
RC


----------



## SolarFlare (Sep 9, 2008)

Reima said:


> Yes, I received an email from Henry today.
> RC




Sorry Reima  crossed lines. 

No crossed lines on the prototypes though, Henry can't sell em all, so cpf "bleeding edge" can have the left overs


----------



## karlthev (Sep 9, 2008)

Ah yes, "bleeding edges"....:thinking: :naughty:

I was able to make contact with Henry so, I'm on my way with the proto it seems! 



Karl


----------



## HDS_Systems (Sep 9, 2008)

We have seen an unusually high number of reply messages bounce. A bunch from the HotMail domain bounced and a couple from other domains. It can take a domain 24 hours to send the bounce message. However, many bounce messages are received in under an hour. We continued to resend the original messages until we stopped getting bounced messages back. If you have not received a response, please try again. Technology is great when it works.

Henry.


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 11, 2008)

:sleepy:


----------



## The Coach (Sep 11, 2008)

:thinking: Is the price a secret?


----------



## Oddjob (Sep 11, 2008)

The Coach said:


> :thinking: Is the price a secret?


 
I assume you mean the price of the prototype right? I'm curious as well.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Sep 11, 2008)

IIRC, Henry said the price is the same as the regular Clicky.


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 12, 2008)

Hi Henry! 

Email inbound for one "prototype" :twothumbs

There is also my ra twisty on its way to repair, as you know. you can send
both back to me...


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 12, 2008)

One more question Henry....

Does the HDS lanyard-rings also fit the Ra-Lights? :candle:


----------



## HDS_Systems (Sep 12, 2008)

Toby,

The EDC lanyard rings will fit the Ra Lights. They will be fairly loose as the diameter of the flashlight waist is smaller than it used to be. You could cover the main ring with some heat shrink tubing to provide a snugger fit.

The Coach,

The price is the same as for the Ra-100-C. Same electronics, same LEDs, same performance, same price. 

Henry.


----------



## SolarFlare (Sep 12, 2008)

The Coach said:


> :thinking: Is the price a secret?





> Oddjob
> I assume you mean the price of the prototype right? I'm curious as well.





> You might have got a faster response if you had asked here a month ago



here being here
If you read you shall find.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 12, 2008)

SolarFlare said:


> here being here
> If you read you shall find.


This question was already answered 18 hours prior by the manufacturer, no need to make redundant posts repeating the same information you've already shared, especially in a (very) mildly disdainful manner. It's not necessary to respond to questions in an impolite way just because the questioners weren't as thorough as they perhaps should have been or didn't give your post the attention you feel it deserved.
(also, I've kinda gotten the impression CLF would rather avoid such publicity, so I've made a point of sometimes sharing information from there but never mentioning it publicly in case they'd view it as inconsiderate.)


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 12, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> ... I had a dream last night about a Ra Clicky...


Your insanity must be contagious; a few nights ago I had a dream that I was at a cocktail party with Henry and a few other anonymous CPF-ers. Oyyy... :shakehead


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 13, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> Your insanity must be contagious; a few nights ago I had a dream that I was at a cocktail party with Henry and a few other anonymous CPF-ers. Oyyy... :shakehead


 
you guys are crazy...:hahaha:


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 13, 2008)

And the number one way in which you know you spend too much time on CPF is . . . 



SaturnNyne said:


> Your insanity must be contagious; a few nights ago I had a dream that I was at a cocktail party with Henry and a few other anonymous CPF-ers. Oyyy... :shakehead


----------



## Stillphoto (Sep 13, 2008)

Waiting to see what these clicky protos look like!


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 13, 2008)

Dead_Nuts said:


> And the number one way in which you know you spend too much time on CPF is . . .


Yeah really... But believe it or not, that happened during a few days when I wasn't spending much time here because I was focusing on another hobby instead (since I'm patiently waiting for my Clicky and not feeling much interest in any other lights). It actually started out as a store devoted to the other hobby, then transformed into the cpf party at the end. Maybe it's a sign of withdrawal? But either way, definitely crazy and a bit troubling. 





Stillphoto said:


> Waiting to see what these clicky protos look like!


I can't help you to _see_ what they look like, but I can try to contribute a little more to your mental picture. Here are a few little details I haven't seen mentioned yet, excerpted from an email I sent:


> The bodies will have the same smooth side slots as the "brand x" EDCs and will have Ra Lights.com on one side and the serial on the other. The tail will probably be fully knurled, based on what I've been told and the fact that the last of the original EDCs were. The finish is HA-Natural (hopefully that means the same nice deep green as the original HDSes). There will be no pocket clip.


----------



## Kid9P (Sep 14, 2008)

So is September still looking like a realistic release month ??


----------



## brucec (Sep 15, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Toby,
> 
> The EDC lanyard rings will fit the Ra Lights. They will be fairly loose as the diameter of the flashlight waist is smaller than it used to be. You could cover the main ring with some heat shrink tubing to provide a snugger fit.
> 
> ...



Hi Henry,
What is the overall length of the prototype bodies? Is it the same as the Novatac 120P? Basically, my question is if the prototype units are essentially a Novatac, but with upgraded LED and electronics. I like the shorter length even if I have to sacrifice some durability. Thanks.

Bruce


----------



## kromeke (Sep 15, 2008)

Henry told me that they are about 3.5" long. A little longer than an HDS EDC, but a little shorter than the new clicky. 

I ordered one, I don't care so much for the large stainless bezel on the new clicky. Henry indicated that it had enough material for it to be drilled and tapped for the original Arc 4 or HDS EDC clip. I asked because I like that clip design, and I like the security of the two screws.


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 15, 2008)

So, as far as anyone knows, there is no picture of a prototype?


----------



## StandardBattery (Sep 15, 2008)

I've thought about this light and the UI as it relates to Boost. I'm not sure I like the current proposal and I've tried to simulate it with my NovaTac programming to see if it makes sense. With Boost, 'High' is really two levels, and that means determining the next lower level in your light to program is a little more complicated, do you base it on the Boost level or the standard 'high-level'? If you want 'high' without boost to conserve battery what do you do?

So I have a proposal for an alternate UI for Boost, with the understanding that Boost is still limited in its duration I think this UI makes more sense.

The Boost should not be activated whenever high mode is engaged, but should instead be activated only when High mode is activated with Momentary. That is Momentary high is brighter that high for the duration of the boost. This allow Boost-level to be activated from any current level and it should return to the current level when the boost duration has expired. This way the light sort of has 5 levels, where the 4 programmable ones are always as they are set, and Boost is more versatile.

The downside is it means that you can't lock Boost-level ON, but you can't really withe the current proposal except for the boost-duration. Unfortunate, but given it's limited duration and intended usage in this configuration I think it is a limitation that is acceptable in order to have the 'high' level work and be selectable consistent with the other 4 levels, and allow boost from any current level, with automatic return to that level.

OK Flame away!


----------



## Stillphoto (Sep 15, 2008)

Dead_Nuts said:


> So, as far as anyone knows, there is no picture of a prototype?


 
Not until someone gets theirs and takes pictures...From the sounds of it, it's a Novatac body with RaLights inscriptions/serial numbers, and the same internals as the clicky is slated to have.


----------



## orcinus (Sep 15, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> This allow Boost-level to be activated from any current level and it should return to the current level when the boost duration has expired.



Erm... That's kinda what it does/is now. :shrug:


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Sep 15, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> If you want 'high' without boost to conserve battery what do you do?



Well that's pretty easy. Set one of your four channels to level 22, rather than level 23. 

Level 23 is 120lm with a 10 second burst output of 170lm (or 100lm with a 10 second burst of 141lm). 

When you click to latch onto your highest output (level 23), it's going to burst for 10 seconds, then settle down to 100/120lm until you press for burst again.

Momentary will activate burst for 10 seconds (if level 23 is assigned) and then drop to level 22 if you don't release the button. If you let go before 10 seconds is up, I assume it returns immediately to the last level you were using.

edit: 300th post right here..


----------



## StandardBattery (Sep 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Erm... That's kinda what it does/is now. :shrug:


Yes, that part is kinda the same you are right; except the Boost also happens if you click-press to high.



Enzo Morocioli said:


> Well that's pretty easy. Set one of your four channels to level 22, rather than level 23.
> 
> Level 23 is 120lm with a 10 second burst output of 170lm (or 100lm with a 10 second burst of 141lm).


 
While that is a good way to simulate the behavior you loose one of the levels since you have to waste one to dedicate it to boost. My method retains all the existing levels for their current purpose, and keeps the UI the consistent in switching levels.


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Sep 15, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> you loose one of the levels since you have to waste one to dedicate it to boost.



Level means Output, of which you are loosing none.
Yes, though, you do loose a Channel in a way - High, Primary, Secondary, Low (or Channel 4, 3, 2, 1) - because one of them has to be set to Level 23 in order to activate burst, and there's no way to have burst occur from any other Level. 

The impact on runtime from 10 seconds burst output shouldn't be too noticeable unless it's abundantly used.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 15, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> With Boost, 'High' is really two levels, and that means determining the next lower level in your light to program is a little more complicated, do you base it on the Boost level or the standard 'high-level'?


What you set the next level down at is simply a matter of personal preference, so there's not really an answer to it. Personally, I'll be setting the next level down to a level that works well for me and maintains what I consider to be a good distance from 120lm; probably 30 or 42lm. I know others who don't care so much about level spacing, so they'll use 60 or 85. Makes little sense to me to have levels so close together, except in specific situations, but that's their preference. However, I admit I'd prefer it if I could keep burst but still select 85 as my high. I'm not sure I'd use it like that, but it'd be nice to have the option of a longer running high since there's already a level set aside for brief spotting usage.



StandardBattery said:


> If you want 'high' without boost to conserve battery what do you do?


If you mean 120 without having to take the runtime hit of going through burst, I'd suggest not worrying about it. 10s of high draw probably isn't going to be terribly significant as long as you're not constantly switching back and forth between high and another level. If you are, you'd better take a few seconds to temporarily turn off burst or kick your next highest level up to ~85 if that's enough light for the task; or even 120 if you want to have immediate 120, maintain boost, and don't mind redundant levels. This light isn't perfect for everyone, but it has enough options that whatever shortcomings you run into can probably be worked around well enough that it's not terribly bothersome in actual use.



StandardBattery said:


> The Boost should not be activated whenever high mode is engaged, but should instead be activated only when High mode is activated with Momentary. That is Momentary high is brighter that high for the duration of the boost. This allow Boost-level to be activated from any current level and it should return to the current level when the boost duration has expired.


I mostly agree that this is a good UI, but I disagree about dropping to the previous level when the burst duration ends. If you are using a low level and suddenly grab high to deal with an unexpected situation, you don't want to get dropped from 170 back to, say, 5lm when 10s runs out. This is why Henry has it drop to and maintain the next level down, so that you have a smooth and predictable transition from the maximum it can achieve to the (still probably adequate) maximum it can maintain extendedly and don't run into a troublesome surprise at the wrong moment.

Also, this UI you suggest was one of the implementations I suggested way back when the inclusion of burst was first announced. It was too late/not possible to change things then and the same is all the more true now.



StandardBattery said:


> This way the light sort of has 5 levels, where the 4 programmable ones are always as they are set, and Boost is more versatile.





StandardBattery said:


> While that is a good way to simulate the behavior you loose one of the levels since you have to waste one to dedicate it to boost. My method retains all the existing levels for their current purpose, and keeps the UI the consistent in switching levels.


I absolutely agree that this would be preferable, as I think I mentioned the first time I brought it up. However, I've since learned that it's not possible due to technical limitations. I don't want to go into the details of it because it hasn't been discussed publicly and I only learned it secondhand so they're not my beans to spill, but the short answer is that it won't happen because it can't happen.



StandardBattery said:


> The downside is it means that you can't lock Boost-level ON, but you can't really withe the current proposal except for the boost-duration.


I do think it's unnecessary to be able to ever latch burst on and I talked to Henry about an option to latch high, release, press again for a moment, and then have burst fall to regular high whenever this press is released without having to wait for the timer to run out; so we'd at least have an option to turn burst off early if we cared to. He basically told me this would not be possible.



StandardBattery said:


> OK Flame away!


Flame on!


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 16, 2008)

Good news!


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 16, 2008)

toby_pra said:


> Good news!


And that would be?


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 17, 2008)

Dead_Nuts said:


> And that would be?


 
About the lenght of the prototypes...sorry i should have qouted this! :candle:


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 17, 2008)

No problem. I thought maybe you had some good news to share.

I think we've about talked this subject out -- until, of course, we get our lights


----------



## HDS_Systems (Sep 18, 2008)

The titanium bezels that were requested have arrived. They are made from very pure grade 2 titanium and weigh about 1/3 less than the stainless steel bezels. They have no marking and will fit both the Ra Twisty and the Ra Clicky. Only a few dealers are stocking them at this time.

Henry.


----------



## tricker (Sep 18, 2008)

so by the end of the month is still realistic?


----------



## Kid9P (Sep 19, 2008)

tricker said:


> so by the end of the month is still realistic?


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 19, 2008)

It's kind of like watching football on Sunday and waiting for the words "Upon further review . . ."


----------



## ChocolateLab33 (Sep 20, 2008)

Kid9P said:


>


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm still curious about the clip design and how it's fastened to the body. 
I guess as much as anyone else, I'm hoping for just a little bit of information to hold me over... Perhaps an update to the status of the customization manual?

My birthday is in late October... Here's to a pleasant surprise...:thumbsup:


----------



## tricker (Sep 21, 2008)

if you don't get a surprise, maybe i will.....mine's halfway through december, whatever henry is cooking up, I know it'll be good


----------



## StandardBattery (Sep 21, 2008)

Well I guess when people get the guts in the prototype body that might give us something to chew on because all the customization information will have to be out by then.

After playing with th twisty for a while I'm also hoping for more aggressive knurling on the Clicky, but I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen.


----------



## Enzo Morocioli (Sep 21, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> I'm still curious about the clip design and how it's fastened to the body.



Just an addition to my question.. Not only would I like to know how it's fastened, but also where it's fastened.


----------



## russtang (Sep 22, 2008)

Enzo Morocioli said:


> Just an addition to my question.. Not only would I like to know how it's fastened, but also where it's fastened.


 
They will be fastened with two screws very smilar to the HDS lights.
The clip itself will be a little different.
Thats all I know.


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Sep 22, 2008)

It would be very helpful, if there were finally times another photo. Then I could make in time a decision. If the clip is as fastened as with the old HDS, I would be very much disappointed. Because I personally find that ugly. I'm sorry, only my personal opinion.


----------



## karlthev (Sep 22, 2008)

I have never found a clip that I like. I've got a number of lights that have clips but I don't use them. Instead I prefer belt cases which provide protection ans, in most instances, appear similar to cell phone holsters. That type of carry mode provides me with protection for the light and many fewer curious question as to what I have on my belt. Whatever floats your boat as they say.


Karl


----------



## Oddjob (Sep 22, 2008)

I genearally don't like clips and if there is a clip, I prefer bezel down. The only clips I like are the ones on my McLux PD and my Bitz. If the Ra clip is like the old HDS I'll probably take it off, however if it is a low profile shape then I'll probably leave it on and try it for a while.


----------



## dixemon (Sep 22, 2008)

Has anyone recieved their proto yet? Pic?


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 22, 2008)

:sleepy:


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Sep 22, 2008)

dixemon said:


> Has anyone recieved their proto yet? Pic?



Last week Henry said they were 2-3 weeks out. So, I have to assume the protos are still 1-2 weeks out.


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 22, 2008)

I wonder, then, what we are looking at for standard production Clickies? Seems late September isn't going to happen either. I just need to go pick up that new Surefire Invictus I've had my eye on. LOL -- I'm sure Henry will never make me wait as long as SF.


----------



## Stillphoto (Sep 22, 2008)

So has no one received their clickie proto yet? I'm assuming if you did there just really isn't anything special to see, except for a novatac body that says ra instead.


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 23, 2008)

Cant wait to get one! 

Please someone makes some pics when he gets his proto...:candle:


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 23, 2008)

Q:


Stillphoto said:


> So has no one received their clickie proto yet? I'm assuming if you did there just really isn't anything special to see, except for a novatac body that says ra instead.


A:


LLCoolBeans said:


> Last week Henry said they were 2-3 weeks out. So, I have to assume the protos are still 1-2 weeks out.




Patience, kids, we're almost there.


----------



## toby_pra (Sep 23, 2008)

SaturnNyne said:


> Q:
> A:
> 
> Patience, kids, we're almost there.


 
Thats not so easy as you might think it could be...


----------



## cree8 (Sep 23, 2008)

Stillphoto said:


> So has no one received their clickie proto yet? I'm assuming if you did there just really isn't anything special to see, except for a novatac body that says ra instead.



I am curious is this fact or speculation?


----------



## karlthev (Sep 23, 2008)

Looks speculative to me.....:thinking:



Karl


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Sep 23, 2008)

cree8 said:


> I am curious is this fact or speculation?



As far as I know, this is pure speculation. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that, from what Henry was describing it "sounded like" he was using NovaTac bodies. It seems plausible, but I don't think anyone has confirmed it for sure. We'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## dixemon (Sep 23, 2008)

Would that be a copyright infringment? Does novatac own the rights to that design?



LLCoolBeans said:


> As far as I know, this is pure speculation. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that, from what Henry was describing it "sounded like" he was using NovaTac bodies. It seems plausible, but I don't think anyone has confirmed it for sure. We'll just have to wait and see.


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Sep 23, 2008)

dixemon said:


> Would that be a copyright infringment? Does novatac own the rights to that design?



I have no idea, but I seriously doubt a clever fellow like Henry would put himself into a shaky legal position. I'm sure that whatever these clicky-protos turn out to look like, their will be no grounds for a lawsuit.


----------



## Stillphoto (Sep 23, 2008)

Yeah henry isn't going to do anything stupid. Just by the way things had been worded via the announcement of protos, I thought it sounded like they were novatac bodies right off the bat. Something about it having 2 flat areas, one side for branding, the other for serial...sounded very similar. 

My bad...especially for not realizing they were still a few weeks out. I read through it and assumed those were up and ready to be bought.


----------



## kromeke (Sep 23, 2008)

I was under the impression that Henry retains the rights to the design but Novatac also has permission (or maybe ownership of some sort) to produce the light that they are currently making. I think he has implied at one time that he could produce the exact model that Novatac produces, but has no interest in doing the same design he made before. He would not be able to call it an EDC or a Novatac (obvious on the last one). I think he sold the EDC trademark to Novatac.


----------



## karlthev (Sep 23, 2008)

I think Henry is on solid ground---*opinion* on my part.


Karl


----------



## brucec (Sep 23, 2008)

karlthev said:


> I think Henry is on solid ground---*opinion* on my part.
> Karl


 
Or maybe he isn't on solid ground and Novatac has filed an injunction against Ralights. And that is why we haven't seen any production clickies nor prototypes nor additional pictures.

Or maybe they are simply just busy assembling a million production units for the military.

It's all speculative until we see some hardware.


----------



## Stillphoto (Sep 24, 2008)

After reading Henry's description of the prototypes again, I really have no clue why I thought the bodies would be that way. Now I wish I hadn't said that. Would have spared said speculation.


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Sep 24, 2008)

Stillphoto said:


> After reading Henry's description of the prototypes again, I really have no clue why I thought the bodies would be that way. Now I wish I hadn't said that. Would have spared said speculation.



I think it's a fair guess. I personally didn't draw that conclusion based on Henry's fairly vague description, but they very well may be NovaTac or at least very NovaTacish bodies. It's as good a guess as anyone has had.

Speculation is unavoidable in a thread like this where there is nothing left to discuss but to engage in speculation. If you didn't put it out there, someone else probably would have. At least it's something to talk about, until we actually see one.


----------



## LLCoolBeans (Sep 24, 2008)

Wait, I do remember Henry stating that the threads on the prototype were the same as the threads on the Clicky/Twisty, but the parts would not interchange.

I guess that means they can't be NovaTac bodies as the NovaTacs have use a different thread pitch.


----------



## cree8 (Sep 24, 2008)

I guess I am hopeing the protos will be unique if they are they will shorly be very desireable


----------



## RainerWahnsinn (Sep 24, 2008)

I am really pleased for all, which wait here for the hors-d'oeuvre. But I wait for the regular RA Clicky, if I may remind of it. :mecry:


----------



## karlthev (Sep 24, 2008)

brucec said:


> Or maybe he isn't on solid ground and Novatac has filed an injunction against Ralights. And that is why we haven't seen any production clickies nor prototypes nor additional pictures.
> 
> Or maybe they are simply just busy assembling a million production units for the military.
> 
> It's all speculative until we see some hardware.





Yes, maybe, maybe, maybe......:shrug:


Karl


----------



## Kid9P (Sep 24, 2008)

Only 6 days left in September


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Sep 24, 2008)

Yes, an updated release date (even a guess) would be appreciated.


----------



## SaturnNyne (Sep 24, 2008)

LLCoolBeans said:


> As far as I know, this is pure speculation. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that, from what Henry was describing it "sounded like" he was using NovaTac bodies. It seems plausible, but I don't think anyone has confirmed it for sure. We'll just have to wait and see.


He is not using "NovaTac bodies," that makes it sound like he's rebranding parts he stuck in his pockets on the way out; a rather insulting idea. They are newly manufactured (made in a small run last year before deciding to move on to a new design) Ra bodies in "the original body style". The appearance will be "very similar to the competition's appearance with smooth side slots labeled with "Ra Lights.com" on one side and the serial number on the other side."

None of this is speculation, I'm quoting Henry. For further details, read whatever else I've posted recently about them in this thread. The only thing that was speculation on my part was that the tail will be knurled, and that's a reasonable guess based on past observations and what's been said. Also, someone else mentioned their length, which I believe made it sound like they'll be slightly longer than older EDCs, at least with stock bezels.




Stillphoto said:


> My bad...especially for not realizing they were still a few weeks out. I read through it and assumed those were up and ready to be bought.


They are ready to be bought, you can buy one by email right now, they've been for sale for more than a month. They're just not shipping out yet.


----------



## ChocolateLab33 (Sep 24, 2008)

Kid9P said:


> Only 6 days left in September


 


And then the website will say October......


----------



## karlthev (Sep 24, 2008)

I forget the wine....Mogan David?? Whatever, the saying "We serve no wine before its time" just might be appropriate here with a tad of editorial infusion.



Karl


----------



## Stillphoto (Sep 24, 2008)

Excuse me... I basically meant that I thought since they were available to buy, they were available to be sent out *My Bad* 
Sat, I don't think anyone thought he might have grabbed bodies on the way out. Henry is a business man plain and simple. No insults there. I think you'd agree by Henry's own description that it at least sounds Novatac-ish.


----------



## h2oflyer (Sep 24, 2008)

The difference between a puppy and a flashohlic is a puppy
eventually stops whining!

I'm on the wait list too.


----------



## Russki (Sep 24, 2008)

:mecry::shakehead :drunk::toilet::hairpull::sweat::sleepy: Where are those "Ra clickis" and tubes for "Ra twistis"?


----------



## HDS_Systems (Sep 24, 2008)

StillPhoto, Cree8,

We are putting the finishing touches on the prototypes before shipping them. We have not and probably will not publish any photos since there are very few of them and collectors are probably the only people who will purchase them. However, you are free to order one and post a photo.

What you will see if you look closely are many improvements over the previous designs that were the starting point for the prototype's mechanical design. Robust threads. Improved positive contact protection. Elimination of a couple of battery compartment issues. And of course, significantly improved electronics and added features. Although the prototypes may look similar to another flashlight, they are very different.

For those who may think that flats on the side of a flashlight belong to a certain company, you should be aware that flats of similar dimensions were in use on production flashlights by a large flashlight manufacturer over several model changes before the second company started using them on their flashlights. If fact, the first company had gone through at least three iterations including inserting a plastic placard into the flat and laser marking on the recessed flat. The first company still manufactures flashlights with the same recessed flat.

As you will see by comparing the prototype to the Ra Clicky, the Ra Clicky went even further to improve the mechanical design by virtually eliminating broken lenses while retaining scratch resistance and ultraclear optics. We also improved the battery compartment so the battery sees almost no damage under extreme conditions. And we integrated and beefed up the thermal path for maximum heat transport to the surface. And the exterior design was changed to look very unique as we did not want people to mistake our flashlights for another company's flashlight.

The prototypes will ship first followed closely by the Ra Clicky's.

Henry.


----------



## Unforgiven (Sep 24, 2008)

Continued

HDS_Systems may update the first post in part 3 as necessary.


----------

