# Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more



## selfbuilt (Apr 1, 2016)

It's been awhile since my last 1xAAA-class light review – and my last Lumintop AAA light in particular. In 2013, I reviewed the physical clicky-based Lumintop Tool AAA and in 2011 the twisty Lumintop Worm.

Let's see how the new Tool Ti compares to others in this class. :wave:

*Manufacturer Reported Specifications:* 
_Note: as always, these are only what the manufacturer reports. To see my actual testing results, scroll down the review._


Uses High CRI Nichia 219BT LED or CREE XP-G2 (R5) LED 
Output mode/Runtime:
XP-G2 R5: High: 110 lumens/30 Minutes, Mid(Default): 32 lumens/4 hours, Low: 5 Lumens/36 hours
NICHIA 219BT: High: 80 lumens/30 Minutes, Mid(Default): 18 lumens/4 hours, Low: 3 Lumens/36 hours
3 modes: Mid-Low-High; Press the metal tail switch to change modes
Runs on: 1 x AAA (NOT included) (10440 Not Recommend)
Dimensions: Length: 2.91" (74mm); Head Diameter: 0.56" (14.4mm); Body Diameter: 0.56"(14.4mm); Weight: 0.78oz(22g) (excluding battery)
Max Beam Intensity and Distance
XP-G2 R5: 553cd, 47 meters
NICHIA 219BT: 304cd, 34 meters
Made from aircraft-grade Ti-6Al-4V alloy that is lightweight, resistant to corrosion, wear and high temperature
Precision micro-textured reflector creates smooth, optimized beam
Double-side AR coated, tempered window resists impact and thermal shock, maximizes light transmission (99% light transmittance)
High-efficiency digitally regulated circuit to maintain a constant brightness as battery life diminishes
Glow in the Dark front O-ring around reflector
Diamond-cut knurling forms a decent appearance and a great grip
Chic yet practical electronic metal tail switch
Brass circuit board ensures incredible heat dissipation while the exposed brass ring becomes a wonderful decoration
Multi-Function, electronic metal tail switch provides one-handed operation and easy access to all functions
High quality detachable stainless steel reversible clip makes it durable and keeps a firm grip on your pocket or hat
Capable of standing up securely on a flat surface to serve as a candle
Impact resistance to 1.5 meters and waterproof in accordance with IPX-8 (submersible to 2 meters)
Market applications include, but are not limited to everyday carry, keychain, gift, emergency, security, hardware/tool and many other uses
Operation: Click the tail switch to turn on/off; press the switch to select brightness (Mid-Low-High).
MSRP: ~$70










Packaging is the new Lumintop "luxury" jewellery-box, with padded inserts. Along with the light (which has a pocket clip attached) are extra o-rings, lobster-style clip, and manual.













From left to right: Eneloop Pro NiMH AAA; Lumintop Tool Ti; Ultratac K18; Lumintop Worm; Fenix LD02; Thrunite Ti3; L3 Illuminations L08. 

*Lumintop Tool Ti*: Weight: 22.6g, Length 73.6mm, Width 14.4mm (bezel)
*Lumintop Tool AAA*: Weight: 15.3g, Length 82.6mm, Width 14.4mm (bezel)
*Lumintop Worm Aluminium*: Weight: 14.3g, Length 72.0mm (battery installed, off), Width 14.1mm (bezel)
*Lumintop Worm Stainless*: Weight: 27.3g, Length 72.0mm (battery installed, off), Width 14.1mm (bezel)

*Eagletac D25 AAA (with clip)*: Weight: 13.4g, Length: 69.8mm, Width (bezel): 14.1mm
*Fenix LD02 (with clip)*: Weight: 16.5g, Length: 76.9mm, Width (bezel): 14.4mm
*Fenix E99Ti*: Weight: 18.7g, Length: 66.1mm, Width (bezel): 14.1mm
*Foursevens Preon P0*: Weight 13.0g (with keychain clip), Length 55.0mm, Width 12.6mm (bezel)
*Foursevens Preon P1*: Weight 15.3g (with keychain clip), Length 75.6mm, Width 14.0mm (bezel)
*Klarus Mi X6*: Weight 16.2g, Length 72.9mm (battery installed), Width 12.8mm
*L3 Illumination L08*: Weight: 22.4g, Length: 77.8mm, Width (bezel): 17.0mm
*Olight i3 (2013/14)*: Weight 12.3g, Length: 69.3mm, Width (bezel): 14.0mm
*Thrunite Ti3*: Weight: 11.5g, Length: 69.9mm, Width (bezel): 13.6mm
*Titanium Innovations Illuminati Aluminum*: Weight 13.9g (with keychain clip), Length 68.8mm, Width 14.0mm (bezel)
*Ultratac K18 Stainless Steel*: Weight: 29.5g, Length 76.0mm, Width 14.0mm (bezel)


















The titanium body has a polished finish. The light has reasonably aggressive knurling over the tailcap, body tube and head. Labels are faint, in dark grey (i.e. not as high contrast as some lights). There is a brass pill in the head, which is exposed at the contact point between head and body. There appears to be blue threadlocker on my sample, between the body and pill (and head and pill). The light is meant to be opened at the tailcap for battery changes.

Screw threads are standard triangular cut, and very fine (as with all 1xAAA lights). Note that all titanium lights have some degree of "galling" on their threads – but I don't find it to be an issue for this light. Since titanium cannot be anodized, there is no physical lock-out. Note that you need to keep the threads and contact surfaces clean to ensure consistent operation.

Tailstanding is possible on the Tool Ti, thanks to the recessed switch. Note that the the Tool Ti uses an electronic clicky switch (but one with mode memory even without a battery installed). Scroll down to the Standby Drain section for a discussion of how the switch operates.

Stainless steel pocket clip attaches firmly, and can oriented in either head-up or head-down orientation.










The Tool Ti uses a lightly textured reflector (OP). My sample is the Nichia 219BT emitter, which has a nice neutral white tint. Centering of the emitter was excellent on my sample. Scroll down for beamshots

*User Interface*

Turn the light on by a click of the electronic switch. 

Light comes on in Med output to start. Rapidly turn the light off/on to advance modes (i.e., double click). Mode sequence is Med > Lo > Hi, in a repeating loop. In other words, mode sequence is consistently from Hi to Lo, but starting at the Med level.

There is no memory mode, and the light will always come on in Med after a pause. 

There are no blinking modes on the Tool Ti.

Note that the switch can retain a memory of its state (open or closed) even without an AAA battery installed. Scroll down for details.

*Video*: 

For information on the light, including the build and user interface, please see my video overview:



For all my videos, I recommend you have annotations turned on. I commonly update the commentary with additional information or clarifications before publicly releasing the video.

As an aside, if you want to get an instant notification for every new review that I post, you can subscribe to my YouTube channel. The vids go public at the same time as the reviews here on CPF.  

*PWM/Strobe*

As with the Worm/Tool, there is no sign of PWM on the Lo mode of the Tool Ti.  Here are the oscilloscope traces for each mode:
















There is no strobe feature.

*Stand-by:*

Output mode switching is controlled by the circuit in the head, and can be operated independent of the switch (i.e., you can short the tail with a paper clip instead of the tailcap and still move through modes). 

However, as previously described, the tail switch is an electronic switch - and one that retains mode memory of its state (open or closed) even without an AAA battery installed inside the light. :thinking: It manages this through an unusual arrangement - the tailcap switch is using a small rechargeable battery built-in to the switch itself. There is thus a constant stand-by drain on this internal battery, to allow the switch to function. But so long as this internal battery is charged and working well, any drain on the main AAA should be negligible. Note that in another unusual twist, the internal tailswitch battery must be fully charged for all the light output modes to work correctly.

The way this seems to work is that the internal tailswitch rechargeable battery is recharged (slowly) when a AAA battery is inserted in the light and all contacts are made (i.e., even with the light off). As explained above, because the switch is electronic, there is thus a continuous standby drain on this small internal battery (which I cannot measure). However, once an AAA battery is installed in the light, the rechargeable battery in the switch is able to fully recharge itself. This secondary drain (on the AAA battery, to re-charge the internal switch battery) I can measure. In my testing to date, it a fluctuates depending on the drain status of the tailswitch battery. Typically, it ranges from ~0.05uA up to ~50uA. Note the drain current drops as the internal battery recharges from the AAA (i.e., quickly falls to the low uA range).

*There is an issue with using the light, if stored for a period of time with no AAA battery installed.* When stored this way, the rechargeable switch battery slowly drops in charge (due to the standby nature of the switch itself). After ~4 days with no activity (and no AAA battery installed), I measured the initial standby drain when an AAA is re-installed at ~50uA. But at this point, the Hi output level was significantly reduced: while Lo and Med were normal, Hi was ~45% of max output initially (although this recovered to ~55% of of max output after 1 minute of runtime and contact).

Now, ~50uA standby is not enough on its own to explain that drop in output, so I can only presume _it takes some time for the rechargeable battery to build up enough charge to allow all the modes to function properly_. Based on anecdotal reports so far, it seems that if you let the switch sit alone long enough, the Med and Lo modes could be affected - right down to the light not turning on at all. But if you let it sit for an hour or so with an AAA battery inside the light with all contacts made, that is enough time to recharge the switch's internal rechargeable battery, and give you all modes again.

Note that no lockout is possible, so you would need to fully remove the tailcap to block this current.

*Beamshots:*

All lights are on 1xAAA Sanyo Eneloop NiMH, about ~0.75 meter from a white wall (with the camera ~1.25 meters back from the wall). The Neutral White Tool Ti is photographed under a Daylight white balance. Automatic white balance is set for the Cool White emitters, to minimize tint differences. All beamshots taken immediately upon activation.



































































The beam of the Tool Ti is reasonably well focused (due to the small emitter die). The tint is a pleasing neutral white, in my view.

*Testing Method:* 

All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, as described on my flashlightreviews.ca website. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for any extended run Lo/Min modes (i.e. >12 hours) which are done without cooling.

I have devised a method for converting my lightbox relative output values (ROV) to estimated Lumens. See my How to convert Selfbuilt's Lightbox values to Lumens thread for more info. 

*Throw/Output Summary Chart:*

My summary tables are reported in a manner consistent with the ANSI FL-1 standard for flashlight testing. Please see http://www.flashlightreviews.ca/FL1.htm for a discussion, and a description of all the terms used in these tables. Effective July 2012, I have updated all my Peak Intensity/Beam Distance measures with a NIST-certified Extech EA31 lightmeter (orange highlights).






The max output of the Nichia 219BT version of the Tool Ti is lower than the XP-G2 version – but still more than reasonable for this class. Consistent with the beamshots, peak intensity throw is reasonably good for the class.

Here is how my lumen estimates compare to the Lumintop specs:






A pretty close concordance, as you can see.

*Output/Runtime Comparison:*
























The Nichia 219BT emitter and/or circuit is not particularly well-suited for the Hi output drive level – runtimes are typically a bit shorter than most other lights in this class (for an equivalent output level). The light also shows a more direct-drive-like regulation pattern, and can't hold flat stabilization for long (even on NiMH).

On the Med output level, regulation is flat-stabilized on all batteries, and overall output/runtime efficiency is definitely improved. While not exactly top of class, the Tool Ti Nichia 219BT is a good performer at this level.

*Potential Issues*

Light has a titanium build – which is very structurally stable, but can produce galling on screw threads (which cannot be anodized for lock-out).

Efficiency of the Hi mode is lower than typical for this class, at least when equipped with the Nichia 219BT emitter. Med mode output shows decent efficiency and regulation.

The Tool Ti uses an electronic switch that has its own internal rechargeable battery. The standby drain is thus internal to the switch, and the drain to re-charge the switch is then in the low uA range from the main AAA battery (which is pretty negligible). However, there is an issue because the internal battery drains slowly over time (due to its internal standby drain), and it needs to be well-charged for the switch to work properly. It takes some time for the rechargeable battery to build up enough charge from the main AAA cell to allow all the modes to function properly. For some reason, if the light has been sitting for several days with no AAA battery installed, there is a reduced output of the Hi mode. Based on anecdotal reports, it seems that if you let the switch sit alone long enough, the Med and Lo modes could also be affected - right down to the light not turning on at all. But if you let it sit for an hour or so with an AAA battery inside the light with all contacts made, that is enough time to recharge the switch's rechargeable battery, and give you all modes again. 

There is no memory mode, and the Tool Ti always starts on Med (and cycles from Hi to Lo).

10440 is not supported.

*Preliminary Observations*

The Tool Ti is a higher-end 1xAAA light, clearly meant to appeal as a gift item. The titanium build, brass pill accent, optional Nichia 219BT emitter, and slim in-line clicky switch all bring a touch of class to the 1xAAA keychain light group.  But it is also sturdy enough to be used as an every-day carry.

It has been a long time since I've seen an integrated tailcap clicky switch like this (i.e., not since the dearly departed Liteflux LF2XT). Unfortunately, the Tool Ti has a very simple interface in comparison to that sophisticated light – and one with a Hi to Lo mode sequence, starting by default at the Med level. :shrug: Still, this is a definite step up from the regular Tool AAA, with its simple protruding tailcap clicky switch.

While the interface may be simple, the functioning of the switch is anything but. Unusually, there is an internal rechargeable battery inside the electronic switch. While this limits the standby drain on the main AAA battery (i.e., the drain now is only to keep the internal switch battery fully charged), the tiny switch battery can't hold a charge for long. This means that if you let the light sit for days or weeks without an AAA battery installed, the switch may not function properly - until the minuscule drain on the main AAA battery is able to re-charge it sufficiently (i.e., up to an hour or so). Expect reduced output on Hi, and potentially lack of operation, until the switch is recharged. :shrug:

Performance of the light is good overall, although not as impressive as some of its simpler constant-current competition. As explained above, the Hi mode can suffer from a reduction in output (and/or runtime efficiency) if the switch internal battery gets drained. At least there is no sign of flicker on any level – the Tool Ti remains fully current-controlled, like other Lumintop AAA lights. :thumbsup:

Build is solid, although I'm not sure why thread-locker was included on the head (i.e., seems that you are meant to open the light at the tailcap for battery changes). The beam pattern and tint are very good on my 219BT sample – very pleasing to my eyes.

This is a nice light, with a quality feel and build. I would personally prefer a revised mode sequence (from Lo to Hi) – but I know there is no general consensus on the best sequence for these simple 3-stage keychain lights. The Tool Ti certainly brings a bit of bling to this class. 

----

Lumintop Tool Ti provided by Lumintop for review.


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## Ryp (Apr 1, 2016)

Thanks for the review!


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## gunga (Apr 1, 2016)

What is your opinion of the switch? Great review as always!


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## selfbuilt (Apr 1, 2016)

Ryp said:


> Thanks for the review!


You're welcome. 



gunga said:


> What is your opinion of the switch? Great review as always!


It's pretty good. It does remind of the LF2XT in overall feel - but of course, you are simply doing repeated clicks here for the 3 basic modes. I would think risk of accidental activation is low.


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 2, 2016)

I read with interest. Thanks for another fine review.


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## sticktodrum (Apr 2, 2016)

You're a rock star selfbuilt. Thanks for the brilliant review!


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## KITROBASKIN (Apr 2, 2016)

Is the switch electronic? What stand-by drain does it have?


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## selfbuilt (Apr 2, 2016)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Is the switch electronic? What stand-by drain does it have?


I admit I was puzzled by this at first, since I haven't seen such a tiny, fine-control clicky switch before. If you bypass the switch (i.e., use a paper clip to make contact instead of the tail switch), you can advance the light through the 3 modes. So the output modes are controlled by the circuit in the head. But more the point, the tailswitch can be set to the open or closed position without being connected to a battery. 

That said, I have just tested the light with the tailswitch in the closed (off) position, with a battery installed but without the head in place, and I do get a minute current through the body of the light (~2.3uA). The reading isn't stable though, and is gradually dropping, so this is probably just some sort of current leak through the tiny switch.
_
*EDIT*: See post #22 for an update - it is an electronic switch._


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## KITROBASKIN (Apr 2, 2016)

Fascinating information, as is so often the case with Selfbuilt reviews.


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## Repulsor (Apr 2, 2016)

Thanks for the review! Really interesting!

p.s. nice package


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## Ladd (Apr 2, 2016)

Nice light. Excellent Selfbuilt review!


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## KITROBASKIN (Apr 2, 2016)

Looking back where I first read about this flashlight, the CPF thread has links to Lumintop advertising this light. The website is suspended(?)

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?415129-*New*-Lumintop-Titanium-Tool/page8

Posts 2 and 12 refer to the electronic clicky switch. I remember reading Lumintop saying it was an electronic switch with zero parasitic drain. Does anyone else remember this? What is going on? What am I missing? Lumintop.com did not work for me.


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## akhyar (Apr 3, 2016)

Great review as always.
The modes of Mid-Low-Hi is just a bit wonky for my liking


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## gunga (Apr 3, 2016)

There is a ReyLight group buy going on. The mode sequence is l-m-h for that one.


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## akhyar (Apr 3, 2016)

gunga said:


> There is a ReyLight group buy going on. The mode sequence is l-m-h for that one.



Yup. 
Aware of Rey groupbuy lights and his excellent prices as I've bought a light from him before.
I'm just thinking out loud why Lumintop decided to adopt the M-L-H mode for their Tool lights


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## newbie66 (Apr 3, 2016)

Thanks for the review! Nice looking AAA light. Great as an expensive gift.


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## Thetasigma (Apr 3, 2016)

Nice review as always selfbuilt, though I could have swore that the switch was listed as an electronic one when it was released. Does it allow for half presses for mode switching or just full cycles to change modes?

For a shirt pocket light I find the M-L-H of my Copper tool works just fine, though I understand why some might like low first.


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## selfbuilt (Apr 3, 2016)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Posts 2 and 12 refer to the electronic clicky switch. I remember reading Lumintop saying it was an electronic switch with zero parasitic drain. Does anyone else remember this? What is going on? What am I missing? Lumintop.com did not work for me.





Thetasigma said:


> Nice review as always selfbuilt, though I could have swore that the switch was listed as an electronic one when it was released. Does it allow for half presses for mode switching or just full cycles to change modes?


My sample does not allow half-presses for mode switching (although the manual implies that it does). Nothing happens until you press it hard enough to click, at which point it turns off (and you need to click again to turn back on, in the next mode). So my sample does not match the early marketing copy. 

I just tested it again - if I remove the tailcap (in the off state, so closed switch), and click it 19 times by iteself, the light turns off when I reconnect (i.e. now in open state). If I click 20 times, it stays off (i.e., closed). I don't see how an electronic switch can consistently move between the open and closed states 20 times when no power source is supplied. 

I'm open to suggestions as to what is going on here. I must admit, I don't understand what would be "an electronic switch with zero parasitic drain". The switch feels like an electronic switch, but it behaves like a physical one. :shrug:
_
*EDIT*: See post #22 for an update - it is an electronic switch._


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## kreisl (Apr 3, 2016)

dee answer is

take the bare tailcap

contact the probes of your dmm in the uA or mA setting to the tailcap

yes bare tailcap

click the switch and try again.

you'll be surprised


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## gunga (Apr 3, 2016)

*Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*

I have a couple electronic switches for sunwayman v10r. They work as you describe. I can click on and off 20 times with no battery connected and they will remember their state. There is an internal capacitor that charges up to power the switch.

Perhaps after a while or a lot of clicking they will stop functioning until charged up again.


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## tops2 (Apr 3, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*

I wonder also if there's an internal cap/battery in the tail cap. Maybe if while disconnected, keep pressing the button to see if there's any switching current? Or if left there for extended time for any leakage current to drain (if any). Otherwise, it did seem like marketing speak when first reading the comment about electronic switch statement on Lumintops site.


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## selfbuilt (Apr 3, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*



kreisl said:


> contact the probes of your dmm in the uA or mA setting to the tailcap
> click the switch and try again.





gunga said:


> I have a couple electronic switches for sunwayman v10r. They work as you describe. I can click on and off 20 times with no battery connected and they will remember their state. There is an internal capacitor that charges up to power the switch.
> Perhaps after a while or a lot of clicking they will stop functioning until charged up again.


Good points. I've just tried taking a current reading across the bare switch contacts, and get a -0.01uA current when open and 0.04uA current when the switch closed. So there is clearly something in there providing state memory. A small capacitor would make sense.

I will update the review, and add in the standby drain I detected with the switch in the off position.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Apr 3, 2016)

Thanks for another excellent review Selfbuilt, I ordered mine a while ago just based on my experience with my other Lumintop Tools(Twisty, Al & Cu). It is so awesome the consistency of your reviews and being able to learn from post review questions-this is what brought me to CPF & I'm still here!(OK, I admit to hypocrisy-I joined "the other" forum recently,because they had some awesome lights(copper X5, X6, S6SE, CPFItalia Cometa) just to name a few), but your reviews always seem to give me the critical info I need as well as a common sense description of the important points with the science & graphs to back it up.


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## kreisl (Apr 4, 2016)

i started a tint comparison thread, some might find it helpful
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...w-Preon-Tool-Ti-Ti5T-K18-SS-A-layman-s-review


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## selfbuilt (Apr 4, 2016)

Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> It is so awesome the consistency of your reviews and being able to learn from post review questions-this is what brought me to CPF & I'm still here!


Thanks for that. And I agree - the post-review discussions are what make CPF particularly valuable. I hadn't come across an electronic switch a capacitor before, so it was good to hear from the experience of members here. It certainly had me a little puzzled until the discussion unfolded.


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## kreisl (Apr 4, 2016)

i don't have access these days to my unit

i think it's not a capacitor, no way

it's a tiny battery inside, you can check

doesn't matter anyway whether battery or capacitor

switch works fine, it's likable switch imo


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## joechina (Apr 4, 2016)

So is it possible to fix a magnet at the tail cap? I would love the ability to stick that thing to metal.
JoeChina


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## selfbuilt (Apr 5, 2016)

kreisl said:


> i think it's not a capacitor, no way
> it's a tiny battery inside, you can check
> doesn't matter anyway whether battery or capacitor
> switch works fine, it's likable switch imo


Unfortunately, I can't access my switch to verify the internals - none of my tweezers are strong enough to unscrew the switch (i.e., it is in there too tight, and holes on the contact board are too small). :shrug:


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## write2dgray (Apr 5, 2016)

Same problem here, I gave it a pretty good effort. Quite probably threadlocked in. May need heat to solve this mystery.


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## Thetasigma (Apr 7, 2016)

My poor tweezers have made the ultimate sacrifice...I opened mine up since it was DOA for the switch though it does turn on now. Still only has Low-Medium-Medium though, no high mode.

Anyhow, definitely an electronic switch. The titanium button sits on a silicone rubber pad that seals the tail, and bumps the electronic switch off to the side. Looks more like a battery than a capacitor though.


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## KITROBASKIN (Apr 7, 2016)

Bravo Sir

Any way we can determine if it is a battery or capacitor?


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## gottawearshades (Apr 8, 2016)

Stupid question: it would be a *rechargeable* battery if not a capacitor?


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## sticktodrum (Apr 8, 2016)

Likely.

I had one DOA and one with no high mode. An hour each sitting with a full Eneloop Pro, and they both function perfectly.


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## gunga (Apr 8, 2016)

Nice! Yes. The Sunwayman v10r ti e-switches are the same. I think they are similar in construction.


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## selfbuilt (Apr 8, 2016)

Thetasigma said:


> My poor tweezers have made the ultimate sacrifice...I opened mine up since it was DOA for the switch though it does turn on now. Still only has Low-Medium-Medium though, no high mode.


Well done sir - thanks for the pics. :thumbsup: And yes, that definitely looks like a battery (presumably rechargeable).



sticktodrum said:


> I had one DOA and one with no high mode. An hour each sitting with a full Eneloop Pro, and they both function perfectly.


Very interesting. I noticed some issues on mine where at times there seemed to be no high mode, or it was reduced in output (i.e., light still cycled through all 3 modes, but there didn't seem much visual difference between Med and Hi). Thorough cleaning of the threads seemed to help ... but I do recall noticing the output slowly rising in my lightbox on one occasion. Since the light has been sitting without a battery for a couple of days now, I'll do some more tests to see if I can elicit this behaviour again.

I'm thinking this may also explain why I noticed a diminishing drain when connecting the tailcap and battery without the head (i.e., perhaps it drains the AA battery faster initially). I'll experiment tomorrow and report back.


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## Ladd (Apr 8, 2016)

gunga said:


> Nice! Yes. The Sunwayman v10r ti e-switches are the same. I think they are similar in construction.




Now that's interesting.

One begins to wonder about the network of relationships between the numerous overseas light fabricators, parts suppliers, brands, and distributors.


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## Thetasigma (Apr 9, 2016)

After a day of sitting the light appears to be functioning correctly now, so a rechargeable cell makes sense.
Curious how the circuit works on this because it functioned properly when shorted but not when the tailswitch was connected initially.


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## sticktodrum (Apr 9, 2016)

I imagine the driver works as if there were a regular mechanical clicky, but they just used an electronic on/off switch at the tail.


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## selfbuilt (Apr 9, 2016)

Thetasigma said:


> After a day of sitting the light appears to be functioning correctly now, so a rechargeable cell makes sense.
> Curious how the circuit works on this because it functioned properly when shorted but not when the tailswitch was connected initially.


After further testing, I think I have the answer.

The tailcap switch is likely using a rechargeable battery - and one that must be fully charged for all the light output modes to work correctly. This rechargeable battery is recharged (slowly) when a AAA battery is inserted in the light and all contacts are made (i.e., even with the light off). Because the switch is electronic, there is a constant standby drain on the switch's rechargeable battery. Only with an AAA battery installed in the light is the rechargeable battery in the switch able to keep itself fully charged. In my testing to date, there is a fluctuating standby drain on the AAA battery when connected to the switch but not the head (typically ~2~30uA), which is presumably required to keep the switch rechargeable battery fully charged.

When the light is stored for a period of time with no AAA battery installed, the rechargeable switch battery slowly drops in charge (due to the electronic nature of the switch, with its own standby current draining its rechargeable battery). After ~4 days with no activity (and no AAA battery installed), I measured the initial standby drain when an AAA is re-installed at ~50uA. At this point, the Hi output level was significantly reduced: while Lo and Med were normal, Hi was ~45% of max output initially (although this recovered to ~55% of of max output after 1 minute of runtime). 

Now, ~50uA standby is not enough on its own to explain that drop in output, so I can only presume it takes some time for the rechargeable battery to build up enough charge to allow all the modes to function properly. Note the light always functions properly if you short the base instead of using the tailcap - it is clearly the tailcap that is limiting max output. Based on anecdotal reports so far, it sounds like if you let the switch sit alone long enough, the Med and Lo modes could be affected - right down to the light not turning on at all. But if you let it sit for an hour with an AAA battery inside the light with all contacts made, that is enough time to fully recharge the switch rechargeable battery, and give you all modes again.

I'm still testing, but that's how it looks so far. :shrug:


----------



## jon_slider (Apr 9, 2016)

kreisl said:


> it's a tiny battery inside





Thetasigma said:


>





selfbuilt said:


> rechargeable battery



thank you gentlemen!

mine should be here any day now


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## sticktodrum (Apr 9, 2016)

selfbuilt said:


> When the light is stored for a period of time with no AAA battery installed, the rechargeable switch battery slowly drops in charge (due to the electronic nature of the switch, with its own standby current draining its rechargeable battery). After ~4 days with no activity (and no AAA battery installed), I measured the initial standby drain when an AAA is re-installed at ~50uA. At this point, the Hi output level was significantly reduced: while Lo and Med were normal, Hi was ~45% of max output initially (although this recovered to ~55% of of max output after 1 minute of runtime).



So could it be that what you originally thought was caused by build up on the threads was instead caused by low charge of the tail switch battery? :shrug:


Also, I get a rare pre-flash on low. Anyone else get that?


----------



## write2dgray (Apr 10, 2016)

Thank you for the sacrifice thetasigma!


----------



## selfbuilt (Apr 10, 2016)

sticktodrum said:


> So could it be that what you originally thought was caused by build up on the threads was instead caused by low charge of the tail switch battery?


Yes, I think that was it. It was probably the repeated re-connections to the battery that was helping, not the cleanings. 



> Also, I get a rare pre-flash on low. Anyone else get that?


No pre-flash here - I have not seen one on my sample, and have done a lot of testing with it.


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## campingnut (Apr 10, 2016)

Does this mean I must always have a cell in this light, otherwise I risk damaging the switch cell? I am looking forward to mine arriving in the next day or two, but I do not like the idea of a little cell in the switch...long-term wise...


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Apr 10, 2016)

campingnut said:


> Does this mean I must always have a cell in this light, otherwise I risk damaging the switch cell? I am looking forward to mine arriving in the next day or two, but I do not like the idea of a little cell in the switch...long-term wise...



Sounds like an Eneloop Pro or Energizer AAA Lithium primary might be the way to keep the switch charged without fear of "Alkaleakage" long term...


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## campingnut (Apr 10, 2016)

I do not use alkalines...eneloops and li- cells only in my household


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## ronniepudding (Apr 11, 2016)

*Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*



campingnut said:


> Does this mean I must always have a cell in this light, otherwise I risk damaging the switch cell? I am looking forward to mine arriving in the next day or two, but I do not like the idea of a little cell in the switch...long-term wise...


+1

I'm not an electrical engineer... but it seems to me an odd design choice to add a second battery and additional complexity to the tail switch. Why not power the switch (as is TMK commonly done with most electronic flashlight switches) using the big main battery?

Can anyone explain what Lumintop is trying to accomplish with this design? Going from their marketing material, it sounded like they were striving for a zero parasitic drain switch -- but that may have been a mis-translation, and doesn't seem to be what they ended up building.


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## Javora (Apr 11, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*

How long would a small battery like that last?


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## selfbuilt (Apr 13, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*

Just updated the review with the results of my testing of the switch.

I've also had to update the output tables and Hi mode Eneloop Pro runtime - as it turns out the tailswitch internal battery was not fully charged when I did those tests initially (i.e., I wasn't getting max output).


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## somnambulism (Apr 13, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*



selfbuilt said:


> Just updated the review with the results of my testing of the switch.
> 
> I've also had to update the output tables and Hi mode Eneloop Pro runtime - as it turns out the tailswitch internal battery was not fully charged when I did those tests initially (i.e., I wasn't getting max output).


Thanks for this update, I was a little unhappy with the mode spacing with an alkaline (medium too close to high), but I like it a lot better with the higher max output with an Eneloop.


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## YummyBacon! (Apr 13, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*

Agreed 100% Wish they also packed in the magnetic (no switch tail) As in the Aluminum AAA tool.



ronniepudding said:


> +1
> 
> I'm not an electrical engineer... but it seems to me an odd design choice to add a second battery and additional complexity to the tail switch. Why not power the switch (as is TMK commonly done with most electronic flashlight switches) using the big main battery?
> 
> Can anyone explain what Lumintop is trying to accomplish with this design? Going from their marketing material, it sounded like they were striving for a zero parasitic drain switch -- but that may have been a mis-translation, and doesn't seem to be what they ended up building.


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## campingnut (Apr 13, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*

Another question...what will happen when, not if, the small cell fails? Will the switch be powered by the big cell or will the light not work? I ask this because, as we all know, every cell has a limited life...


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## selfbuilt (Apr 14, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*



campingnut said:


> Another question...what will happen when, not if, the small cell fails? Will the switch be powered by the big cell or will the light not work? I ask this because, as we all know, every cell has a limited life...


It's a good question. There are reports of the light not turning on, likely due to a depleted internal switch battery (as full function was restored after letting sit in contact with an AAA battery). That would suggest to me that when the internal cell fails (i.e., can no longer be recharged), the light will simply stop working. But that's just speculation - I don't know enough of how it operates to say with any certainty. :shrug:


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## KeepingItLight (Apr 14, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*

Hopefully, when we know more details, we will learn that this switch performs well, and lasts a long time. 

I must say, however, that my first response, after learning that it had a battery, was to ask how one replaces said battery. I was also thinking, KISS. Is this battery just another point of failure?


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## peter yetman (Apr 14, 2016)

*Re: Lumintop Tool Ti (Nichia 219BT, 1xAAA, Titanium) Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS ...*

Do we know if it's a cell or a capacitor?
P


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## m95c (Apr 14, 2016)

It looks like a battery, according to the pictures posted and the description in the patent.


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## peter yetman (Apr 14, 2016)

Thank you.
P


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## ingineer (Apr 14, 2016)

Rey says it is a capacitor, acts like one, appearances can be deceiving.
Watch caps:



Why worry? Great small torch


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## KITROBASKIN (Apr 14, 2016)

I understand that capacitors can be very long lived if not kept in high temperatures for a sustained period. It just doesn't seem right that Lumintop would hobble their flashlight with a battery in the switch that would fail in a few years. But this too is speculation. Perhaps someone will ask Lumintop.


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## somnambulism (Apr 14, 2016)

Since the description of the light says the switch is patented, figured I'd just look at the patent document to see what it says. Searching for 201520922098.6 at the Chinese Patent Office website brings up patent number CN205105440U (sorry, can't figure out how to link to it directly).

Here's the circuit diagram:






And here's the abstract (in Chinese, which I can't read, but I'm sure some people here can):



> 本实用新型公开了一种储能型零功耗手电电子开关电路，包括芯片U1、电池U2、二极管D1、MOS管Q1、电阻R1和电容C1，所述芯片U1引脚3分别连接开关K1、电阻R1和电容C1，电阻R1另一端分别连接芯片U1引脚6和MOS管Q1的G极，MOS管Q1的D极分别连接电阻R3和输出端B1，电阻R3另一端连接二极管D1正极，二极管D1负极分别连接芯片U1引脚5、电池U2正极和二极管D2负极，二极管D2正极分别连接MOS管Q1的S极、电池U2负极、电容C2、输出端B2和电容C1另一端。本实用新型采用MOS管控制大电流，比普通机械开关体积小、重量轻，比普通电子开关电路功耗小，可以减小待机电流为零，本品采用续电储能型形式，所以不用担心使用时间及使用寿命。



And here's a machine translation of the abstract (click the link for a machine translation of the entire document) into English through the European Patent Office site:



> The utility model discloses a storage-type zero-power flashlight electronic switching circuit, including chip U1, battery U2, the diode D1, MOS tube Q1, resistor R1 and capacitor C1, U1 pin 3 of the chip are connected to the switch K1, resistor R1 and capacitor C1, the resistor R1 and the other terminal connected to chip U1 pin 6 and G MOS transistor Q1 pole, D MOS transistor Q1 and a resistor R3 are connected to electrode output terminal B1, the other end of the resistor R3 is connected to the positive diode D1, the diode the cathode of D1 are connected to pin 5 of chip U1, U2 battery positive electrode and the negative electrode of the diode D2, the diode D2 are connected to the positive electrode of the MOS transistor Q1 S pole, U2 battery negative electrode, the capacitor C2, the output of the other end of the capacitor C1 and B2. The utility model adopts MOS transistor to control high current, small size than conventional mechanical switches, light weight, small power consumption than conventional electronic switching circuit, the standby current can be reduced to zero, this product is in the form of continuous electrical energy storage type, so do not worry use of time and life.



I don't know enough about circuits to tell how this works, or what from the patent description corresponds to what in the photos of the switch earlier in the thread. (Is "battery U2" the AAA battery in these lights, or is there a separate battery in the switch?) Hopefully someone else here can figure it out.


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## Thetasigma (Apr 15, 2016)

It is interesting to note that Seiko quit using capacitors in their kinetic watches because they found they fail too readily due to overuse, not enough use, and heat. Their solution was to utilize a small rechagreable lithium ion cell which has proven more reliable. Either will still need replacing though.

For a small EDC I am inclined to think that the mechanical switch is utilimately a more desirable option for me.
Kudos to Lumintop for experimenting, I do hope they hold up well in use.


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## Thetasigma (Apr 15, 2016)

Double post...


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## jon_slider (Apr 16, 2016)

somnambulism said:


> (Is "battery U2" the … battery in the switch?)


Yes! 
Rocking job on the patent search







my interpretations:

the parasitic drain of the switch is powered by a LiIon
there is an automatic charging circuit in the switch, that recharges the LiIon, from the AAA, when the parasitic drain draws the LiIon battery below a preset level. 

It took about 10 minutes after I put my first AAA into my TiTool, before I could use High Mode.. probably because the LiIon had fallen below operational voltage and needed recharging before it could power High Mode..


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## GordoJones88 (Apr 25, 2016)

Hey look at that Ultratac K18 Stainless Steel AAA side-clicky keychain light in there.
I see you've even provided your test results for it.
Thanks a bunch!


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## selfbuilt (May 5, 2016)

GordoJones88 said:


> Hey look at that Ultratac K18 Stainless Steel AAA side-clicky keychain light in there.
> I see you've even provided your test results for it.


Yes, my next review ... should hopefully be up later today.


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## jon_slider (Jul 28, 2016)

TiTool on Sale



boogietrain said:


> http://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_326612.html
> use coupon code 219BT and it should come down to $36.99.


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## F. Premens (Sep 16, 2016)

Good review. 

What happens if the switch battery dies? It's there any replacement?


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## kreisl (Sep 16, 2016)

ho|a premens, afaik is the switch battery pseudo-rechargeable. it won't die if you let it recharge by the AAA battery.


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## F. Premens (Sep 21, 2016)

kreisl said:


> ho|a premens, afaik is the switch battery pseudo-rechargeable. it won't die if you let it recharge by the AAA battery.




:thumbsup:


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## Wendee (Sep 21, 2016)

kreisl said:


> ho|a premens, afaik is the switch battery pseudo-rechargeable. it won't die if you let it recharge by the AAA battery.



I wonder about the switch battery dying too. Since it's an actual "battery", won't it eventually stop being able to take a charge, like all rechargeable batteries? 
I'm thinking my Lumintop Tool Ti will die in about 2-3 years. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think the switch battery (capacitor, or whatever it's called) will last forever?


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## Stereodude (Sep 21, 2016)

Wendee said:


> I wonder about the switch battery dying too. Since it's an actual "battery", won't it eventually stop being able to take a charge, like all rechargeable batteries?
> I'm thinking my Lumintop Tool Ti will die in about 2-3 years. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think the switch battery (capacitor, or whatever it's called) will last forever?


I'm not sure if it will die on only 2-3 years, but the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't solve any problem. Instead of a slow parasitic draw on the battery the whole time it puts a higher draw on the cell for a few days to charge the internal battery then less. Either way it's taking energy from the battery. "Laundering" the energy through another circuit and mini rechargeable battery is bound to be less efficient than just pulling it from the AAA directly. So, unless you use one AAA battery to charge the internal battery and then put in a different AAA battery a few days later after the internal battery is charged this whole scheme hasn't helped anything.


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## Timothybil (Oct 18, 2016)

Question: Would a good silicon greasing reduce/prevent the galling of the threads? Also, you said Nichia 219B version had a Neutral White tint. What does that mean in terms of degrees K?

Massdrop is currently running a drop for this light. $37.99 + $2.15 for shipping. The drop ends tomorrow though.


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## jon_slider (Oct 18, 2016)

Ti is gritty as a twisty, no matter how you lubricate it. The led is about 4500k

but the TiTool is less efficient than copper tool, if you use high mode

see this for more info

fwiw the ReyLight TiTool starts on low instead of medium. And the low is 1 lumen instead of 3 lumen. If those details matter to you.


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## StandardBattery (Oct 19, 2016)

Wendee said:


> I wonder about the switch battery dying too. Since it's an actual "battery", won't it eventually stop being able to take a charge, like all rechargeable batteries?
> I'm thinking my Lumintop Tool Ti will die in about 2-3 years. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think the switch battery (capacitor, or whatever it's called) will last forever?





Stereodude said:


> I'm not sure if it will die on only 2-3 years, but the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't solve any problem. Instead of a slow parasitic draw on the battery the whole time it puts a higher draw on the cell for a few days to charge the internal battery then less. Either way it's taking energy from the battery. "Laundering" the energy through another circuit and mini rechargeable battery is bound to be less efficient than just pulling it from the AAA directly. So, unless you use one AAA battery to charge the internal battery and then put in a different AAA battery a few days later after the internal battery is charged this whole scheme hasn't helped anything.


Yes, I'm afraid I think this design is questionable as well. Not only that I've found it to be an energy waster and I suspect it is responsible for much of the reduced runtime of the Ti vs the copper. My testing shows that even when the switch is ON the light is never as bright as a direct short of the tail. That means that even in the ON position it has a resistance that is just wasted power. I've also found the switched gets flaky well be for the battery is exhausted for use in other lights. So while I really like the switch action and the size I would never EDC this light as my primary user. I still like to use it around the house and I'll take it as a third light some times (I always carry 2). It will be interesting to see how it ages, maybe someone will give the definitive answer soon on whether the storage device is super-capacitor or battery, but I'm leaning towards battery as it takes too long to charge to be a super-capacitor unless they have really, really restricted the charge circuit.

This is one light though even with it's more serious flaws, I really like. From the flawed switch, the very nice LED, the brass & ti mix, the very nice engraving....


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## wolfgaze (Oct 27, 2016)

Still really enjoying this light... My primary carry now.... I only use the Medium mode and just pretend it's a single mode light. : D


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## LOUSYGREATWALLGM (Nov 8, 2016)

I've just ordered some of this to replace my Olight i3S (primary EDC) and came across this thread about the futuristic switch :shrug:. Is there any fix to this yet?


TIA


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## wolfgaze (Nov 9, 2016)

LOUSYGREATWALLGM said:


> I've just ordered some of this to replace my Olight i3S (primary EDC) and came across this thread about the futuristic switch :shrug:. Is there any fix to this yet?
> 
> TIA



What is it that needs fixing? 

The light functions fine....


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## LOUSYGREATWALLGM (Nov 9, 2016)

The issues that's been mentioned previously by the other members here?

I'm more concerned with the parasitic drain (how quickly will it drain the AAA Nimh) and if the battery switch is replaceable?


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## jon_slider (Nov 9, 2016)

LOUSYGREATWALLGM said:


> The issues that's been mentioned previously by the other members here?
> 
> I'm more concerned with the parasitic drain (how quickly will it drain the AAA Nimh) and if the battery switch is replaceable?



I respect your concerns. Its up to you to make the call on whether the other features of this light are compelling to you.

fwiw, I believe the concensus, after long discussion, is that the device in the switch, that charges up and is used to fire High Mode, is a capacitor, not a battery. I found that somewhat less concerning.

as far as "the issues", 
the switch requires a AAA to be in place for more than 20 minutes on a brand new empty light. Also high mode is not as efficient as in the copper model. If you use the light primarily on medium or low, these are not necessarily reasons to pass up a really cool titanium light.

the switch is good enough for maukka to choose to use on the copper tool he carries. he obviously has enough knowledge to not fear the switch.

imo an AAA light with Constant Current and High CRI in Titanium is nothing to sneeze at for under $25. It does not have to be for everyone. I for example, prefer the Copper version 

Do whatever makes you happy, let us know if you try the Ti
it has a great form factor imo, though I find the switch a bit small..
I really like the keyring connection, and the fact that Ti is light for keyring, and it is Shiny Bling 





to your concern of replacing the switch.. by then you will probably have your eyes on some new model.. also, even if the Tiswitch fails, the light can still work as a twisty or with other Tool heads
why worry? be happy!


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## zingers (Jan 18, 2017)

gunga said:


> What is your opinion of the switch? Great review as always!


 Can I throw my two cents in here? I bought 3 thinking that it would be great to have a clicky in AAA form. But the distance between the switch and the body in this light is tiny, so tiny I can't get my calipers in there. But other stuff can get in, like lint and dust. And some got in. I had to blow it out with air to restore the smoothness. I think it was sand. I love the size and a small tail switch, but that threw me off the light a little. The twisties can just be wiped off, but you need a compressor to clean this one out. And that has never happened with rubber clickies ( although it has happened to the ring on the SRT 3 too). I did a small review on Amazon referencing CPF and selfbuilt but I am going to change my rating because of this.


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## harro (Jan 26, 2017)

I was fortunate enough to be gifted one of these lights, last year. It is a pretty tough little light, that i find great for closeup work, or that walk to the porcelain bus at three in the morning. It is my only ti light, and when sitting in the light cabinet, is like a little diamond amongst a sea of black. It is an XPG version, but still has a pleasing neutral/cool tint to its output. When on the keyring, you nearly forget its there. Its no bigger or heavier than a couple of extra keys. Have not had any worries with grit getting into the switch, but i can see how it may be a concern, if used in harsh enviroments. Personally, the mid, low, high ui is not a concern, and i guess it has to switch on, somewhere. Only downside was the financial controller started eyeing it off, and saying how nice it would be if slightly larger, and sitting on her bedside drawer. The aquisition of a SWM T10T solved that and gained some valuable man-points for me. The brass highlight is a nice touch, also.


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## DooMMasteR (Mar 20, 2017)

Haha, the little 6 leg chip in the tail might be an Atmel ATtiny not sure since the specs say, 1.8V are minimum, the switch is connected to the interrupt pin of the µC. So the tail should be able to go down to 150 nA in stand-by current, I wonder if and why they went such a complex route when they did not implement any complex UI.
http://www.atmel.com/Images/Atmel-8...Ttiny5-ATtiny9-ATtiny10_Datasheet-Summary.pdf << datasheet of the little bugger
I am not to concerned about the tail, though my first Tool Ti was DoA and never recovered, which I later discoveref, was due to D1 missing in my tail. Banggood was not able to source the tail alone and they sent me a whole new light.
The original is now also working with D1s place being taken by a diode from an old Nokia phone.


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## jorn (Apr 1, 2017)

Stereodude said:


> I'm not sure if it will die on only 2-3 years, but the whole thing makes absolutely no sense. It doesn't solve any problem. Instead of a slow parasitic draw on the battery the whole time it puts a higher draw on the cell for a few days to charge the internal battery then less. Either way it's taking energy from the battery. "Laundering" the energy through another circuit and mini rechargeable battery is bound to be less efficient than just pulling it from the AAA directly. So, unless you use one AAA battery to charge the internal battery and then put in a different AAA battery a few days later after the internal battery is charged this whole scheme hasn't helped anything.



_It kind of does makes sense. Nomally you need a different driver for a electronic switch. A driver that stays on in "sleepmode" and wakes up when it gets a impulse from the electronic switch. If you take a normal light with a mecanical switch and installs a electronic switch, it will only be a momentary switch because you only get contact if you keep it presed down. So they prob use the same driver as the rest of the tools, a driver that is ment for twisty or mecanical switches. And they use this type of switch to make the light stay on. Got the same type of switch with battery in my sunwayman v10r. It's stock with a mecanical switch. But bought a electronic switch with a tritted ti button for it. This switch also have a battery in it. It has to, because the driver in the v10r is made for a mecanical switch._


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## Timothybil (Apr 1, 2017)

Since the only difference between the Ti version and the copper and aluminum versions is the body material, if the electronic switch dies, one could always just buy a tail cap only, either with a clicky switch or with no switch and a magnet. Unfortunately, those two are only available in anodized aluminum, which would kind of clash with all that shiny titanium.


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## jorn (Apr 3, 2017)

Timothybil said:


> Since the only difference between the Ti version and the copper and aluminum versions is the body material, if the electronic switch dies, one could always just buy a tail cap only, either with a clicky switch or with no switch and a magnet. Unfortunately, those two are only available in anodized aluminum, which would kind of clash with all that shiny titanium.


Wont clash too mutch if you remove the ano and polish the aluminium. That can be done in minutes


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## jon_slider (Apr 3, 2017)

afaik there have not been any failures of the Electronic Switch, not even after using LiIon
so, Don't Trouble Trouble, til Trouble Troubles you.
aka.. Don't Worry, Be Happy 

There already is Brass version of the Electronic Switch, and I predict we will see a Copper Version next.. I plan to buy that one (if it has the efficient driver).. I love Copper!

fwiw, a friend just bought a TiTool w Nichia and Loves it! Its a great little light in its own right. And that is what this thread is about.. so I will try to stop hijacking now


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## this_is_nascar (Apr 3, 2017)

I don't care for an electronic switch on any light due to the fact that it drains power, even while off, regardless of how negligible it is.


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## jorn (Apr 3, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> afaik there have not been any failures of the Electronic Switch, not even after using LiIon
> so, Don't Trouble Trouble, til Trouble Troubles you.
> aka.. Don't Worry, Be Happy
> 
> ...



OOOOH so the tool ti wont explode when used with a 10440? i broke my worm with a 10440, it's only singlemode now and now it only works with a 10440. So i dont dare to put a 10440 in the tool. Suspect they got the same driver. But i really want to try with a 10440.....


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## jon_slider (Apr 3, 2017)

jorn said:


> OOOOH so the tool ti wont explode when used with a 10440? i broke my worm with a 10440


no guarantees, Im only sharing info Ive read, notably posts by write2dgray that I wont take time to dig up atm
sorry your worm got cooked
I personally have zero LiIon experience, and the TiTool is least suitable as it only runs in high mode on 10440


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## Timothybil (Apr 3, 2017)

It seems that the corporate wisdom among those who have tried it is that a Tool won't go up in smoke immediately if used with a 10440, but that extended use will break components in the driver and leave the light in direct drive only mode. Plus, the additional heat will degrade the LED die itself faster. I tried it in my aluminum Tool, and the brightness increase was great, but the head started to heat up almost immediately, so I shrugged my shoulders and went back to a plain old AAA. It's not like I don't have any other lights around that are a lot brighter. My EA11, while about the same length, is about twice the diameter, but still a nice small light. And it is designed to accept a 14500 cell as well as an AA one. I can use my Tool as a backup and have the best of both worlds.


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## Timothybil (Apr 3, 2017)

jorn said:


> OOOOH so the tool ti wont explode when used with a 10440? i broke my worm with a 10440, it's only singlemode now and now it only works with a 10440. So i dont dare to put a 10440 in the tool. Suspect they got the same driver. But i really want to try with a 10440.....


As far as I can tell, the Tool, the Worm, and the IYP365 all use the same driver. (Not sure about the IYP365 since it is a two cell light) I did put a 10440 and a dummy cell in my IYP365 to see how well it worked, and it seemed ok. But since my interest there was in using rechargeable cells, I satisfied it by buying a couple of NiMH AAA cells instead. No use asking for trouble, it usually finds me fast enough on its own.


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## jorn (Apr 4, 2017)

My tool also worked , but only for a day or so before the driver gave up and fried. Im experienced with using 10440 in lights that have no10440 support so did not use high for more than seconds at the time. Still it died on me...


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## theretroshave (Sep 21, 2017)

Long-time lurker here... I know I'm late to this thread, but I recently had my Lumintop Tool "die" on me. It had been switched on hanging on the inside edge of my jeans pocket (I don't know how long). When I noticed and switched it off, it kind of flickered and wouldn't turn back on. This was maybe two days ago. Today, I decided to investigate.

A bit of history- I modified my LTT Cu by swapping the switch from an LTT Ti into it. I've been quite pleased with the resulting light, aside from occasionally discovering the light on in my pocket. It shares a space right next to my KeyBar, so sometimes it gets bumped and turned on.

Anyway, when I disassembled the tail switch, I was a bit baffled until I took a closer look at the small black block (not sure what it is actually called) that is soldered to the board inside of the coil. I apologize for the poor quality of my pictures, I had to use my phone to take them. My shots are not the sharpest, but I can pretty clearly see that the black block is cracked. After spotting this, I decided to try to push the block back together, which "worked" temporarily. When I put everything back together, I'm able to switch the light on and off for perhaps a minute or two before the light begins to flicker and stop working again.

I would prefer to not have to waste this switch or the money to buy another light to waste. If anyone here can get a clearer shot of the block to which I'm referring, can share the markings that are on the block, or perhaps could tell me where I might source a replacement block, I would greatly appreciate it. I'm a complete novice as it relates to working with electronics, but some coworkers can help me with the repair. I just need to know if/where I can get the part that's defective.

Has anyone else experienced this issue? Help would be immensely appreciated!


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## Javora (Sep 22, 2017)

What is the writing on the diode? If you can read it then type it into the search bar of whatever search company you use and see what comes up. You may have to narrow the search down by putting in words like electronic or diode or maybe the name of the light. Hope this helps.


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## theretroshave (Sep 22, 2017)

Javora said:


> What is the writing on the diode? If you can read it then type it into the search bar of whatever search company you use and see what comes up. You may have to narrow the search down by putting in words like electronic or diode or maybe the name of the light. Hope this helps.



Good call on taking a closer look- I didn't think my phone's camera would capture a sharp enough image to get a good look at characters on the diode (thanks for putting a name to the object for me), but it seems that my phone worked to get the characters. Unfortunately, I'm not finding any results for what I believe to be the correct characters. Any reputable stores/sites that might have a good searchable selection of diodes?

Here's a shot of the characters on the diode. I'm glad I still have my Maratac twisty to keep handy. I get a certain joy whenever I need to use my "backup" tool to work on another tool.


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## jon_slider (Sep 22, 2017)

theretroshave said:


> I recently had my Lumintop Tool "die" on me. It had been switched on hanging on the inside edge of my jeans pocke



sorry for your loss, don't know the answer to your question
Did you use LiIon to kill the electronic switch?
in any case, you could go back to the mechanical switch right?
Im surprised your carry method allows the flush electronic switch to be accidentally activated.. seems your carry method is not compatible..
hope you find a happy solution


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## theretroshave (Sep 29, 2017)

Well, tonight I decided to tackle this issue. I desoldered the spring, squeezed the diode together, added a drop of super glue, then some baking soda, then a bit more of each for good measure. After that dried, a resoldered the spring and reassembled the tailcap. I put the light back together with a new battery, and it's working again... For now. 

We'll see if my repair fixes the issue long-term. Super glue and baking soda, together, are supposed to provide a very solid medium so I'm really hoping it holds. I'd rather not have to buy another light just for the switch. 
Here's a shot of the light, back in action. I'm not including a shot of the repair because it's not pretty, but it's getting the job done, and it looks good where it counts.


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## GarageBoy (Oct 5, 2017)

I don't get why they'd use this type of switch - I wish I could just get a nichia work not in copper


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## jon_slider (Oct 5, 2017)

GarageBoy said:


> I don't get why they'd use this type of switch - I wish I could just get a nichia work not in copper



if you want a Tool w Nichia in Black Aluminum, go here


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## Timothybil (Oct 6, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> if you want a Tool w Nichia in Black Aluminum, go here



Currently shows out of stock, and Amazon no longer sells one either.


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## jon_slider (Oct 6, 2017)

Timothybil said:


> Currently shows out of stock, and Amazon no longer sells one either.


did you also check at gearbest?


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## Timothybil (Oct 6, 2017)

Timothybil said:


> Currently shows out of stock, and Amazon no longer sells one either.





jon_slider said:


> did you also check at gearbest?


No, I was just trying to be helpful since I got my anodized Tool with Nichia from Amazon last spring, and thought if they still had it I would point the OP to it.


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