# Mag 2C with muscle!!



## Lighthouse one (Nov 1, 2006)

I finally did it! After experimenting....I tried (2) 18500 Li-ions in my 2 c cell with a maglite magnum star 5 cell xenon bulb. It out powers my 4 c cell mag with the xpr 103 radio shack bulb. THe beam is powerful and a great spill to boot. The light is not near as yellow color as many bulbs. Finally, a lightweight Mag with muscle! It outthrows my Wolf Eyes Raider 9 volt! Total output is better from the Wolf Eyes.


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## swampgator (Nov 1, 2006)

Do you know how this compares with the 3 CR123 mod? I'm wondering in terms of brightness and color?


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## mdocod (Nov 1, 2006)

the 3xCR123 version of the same light would run a greater risk of flashling bulbs prematurly in the first 5-10 minuts of use, after a short while, the 2x18500 would overtake it in output...

the discharge curve of 2xli-ion looks a lot better than 3xCR123, much flatter.


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## swampgator (Nov 2, 2006)

Many thanks.

Sounds like 2 18500s might be the way to go.


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## Brighteyez (Nov 2, 2006)

Why? Wouldn't the 3xCR123 version use a 6 cell Mag-Star bulb instead of a 5 cell? And why would the 2x18500 overtake the 3xCR123 in output? The CR123 batteries don't have a discharge curve like an alkaline battery. 



mdocod said:


> the 3xCR123 version of the same light would run a greater risk of flashling bulbs prematurly in the first 5-10 minuts of use, after a short while, the 2x18500 would overtake it in output...
> 
> the discharge curve of 2xli-ion looks a lot better than 3xCR123, much flatter.


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## soapy (Nov 2, 2006)

Brighteyez said:


> Why? Wouldn't the 3xCR123 version use a 6 cell Mag-Star bulb instead of a 5 cell? And why would the 2x18500 overtake the 3xCR123 in output? The CR123 batteries don't have a discharge curve like an alkaline battery.


That's what I want to know, too.


In other news, has anyone thought about getting a lab power supply and testing the various bulbs to see what can be driven/verdriven the best, and how far?

A single bulb could have the voltage slowly ramped up, whilst the current was monitored, until it popped, and this could be plotted against lumens out.


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## Lighthouse one (Nov 2, 2006)

I did have the 3 cr123a mod in before- with a different bulb. After I tried the 18500 combo...game, set, match...the winner!! An awsome combo- and it's rechargeable. The 18500 set up holds up longer....the 5 cell mag bulb is just being slightly overdriven... 3 123 with the 6 cell bulb would work...but why bother...this set up is amazing...it's my most powerful light now...and for only a few bucks! And rechargeable! Hey- play around...that's what we're here for.


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## Brighteyez (Nov 2, 2006)

I think the guy was referencing a 5 cell bulb in both cases, and clearly, a reasonable person would not use a 5 cell bulb with 3 CR123s.

Insofar as over/under driving, I wouldn't get too carried away with lab power supplies and the like. These bulbs are mass produced and will have variations from batch to batch. That being said, I don't know why people try and overdrive bulbs rather than just going for a higher wattage bulb. It's not as if they aren't available given the popularity of the ROP.



soapy said:


> That's what I want to know, too.
> 
> 
> In other news, has anyone thought about getting a lab power supply and testing the various bulbs to see what can be driven/verdriven the best, and how far?
> ...


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## Stormstaff (Nov 2, 2006)

Nice. I gotta get around to "making" something like this for myself.


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## swampgator (Nov 2, 2006)

Brighteyez said:


> a reasonable person would not use a 5 cell bulb with 3 CR123s.


 
Why not? I'm currently running a 4 cell bulb over 3 CR123s. I've yet to have any problems with it. Is there a safety issue I'm not aware of? BTW, my wife would agree I'm unreasonable, so that might be the reason.


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## AFAustin (Nov 2, 2006)

Lighthouse one said:


> I finally did it! After experimenting....I tried (2) 18500 Li-ions in my 2 c cell with a maglite magnum star 5 cell xenon bulb. It out powers my 4 c cell mag with the xpr 103 radio shack bulb. THe beam is powerful and a great spill to boot. The light is not near as yellow color as many bulbs. Finally, a lightweight Mag with muscle! It outthrows my Wolf Eyes Raider 9 volt! Total output is better from the Wolf Eyes.




Are your (2) 18500s protected or unprotected?


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## Niteowl (Nov 3, 2006)

Brighteyez said:


> ..........clearly, a reasonable person would not use a 5 cell bulb with 3 CR123s. ..........I don't know why people try and overdrive bulbs rather than just going for a higher wattage bulb. It's not as if they aren't available given the popularity of the ROP.



Oh man, you're killing me. You are joking...yes?....Overdriving is the whole point here. :naughty:

Using a 6 cell bulb with 3x123's is great for longevity of the bulb and more runtime, dull, dull, dull. When I was using the Radio Shack KPR112 (6V, 650mA) with 3x123's I just changed the bulb with each set of batteries as it didn't last long anyways. Now I use the Carley 1499, more robust and brighter, less runtime.

That said, a 6 cell bulb with 3x123's is fine for a utility light, for my Granny. :laughing: 

Clearly, I'm not a reasonable person.

Higher wattage bulbs usually require NiMH's or li-ion's. They generate more heat and usually need metal reflectors and glass lenses. More $$. Drive those "cheap" 5 cell bulbs into the ground, I say. 

"It's better to burn out, than fade away.........."


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## AlejandroA (Nov 3, 2006)

Are you using 18500 or 18650 batteries?
How they fit into the light? Have you made any mods to make them fit?
Thanks


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## Niteowl (Nov 3, 2006)

I am using protected 2x18650 cells in a 2.5C to run the ROP low. That is a 3C cut down for the extra length. Also, member FM has made a TAILCAP designed for this purpose, it is deeper allowing use of any 18650 cells simply changing the cap, he's sold out at this time. The cheap route is to remove the spring, deanodize the bottom of the tailcap and use a tiny spring. Member download has a KIT in the works to avoid the deanodizing step. I just got one of these and have yet to try it, looks very promising, hassle free.

I believe 2x18500 cells will fit with no modification, some one else will have to verify. Of course, the cell capacity is reduced. 

I will say, now that I've tried Li-ion cells, I'm hooked. They're well worth the initial cash layout.

A search for "3x123 mod", "Mag 2C mod", etc. will give you lots to read. HERE'S one to get you started.

Be very careful, I've got more Mag 2C's than I know what to do with.


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## Lighthouse one (Nov 4, 2006)

I'm using protected 18500 cells...I'm sure unprotected would be fine too. No mods are necessary- except the spring may be too strong. I'm not trying to compete with mag85's here...just a nice size and powerful light that costs under $35 total- including a new 2 c mag! THe hardest part is finding the magnum xenon 5 cell bulbs! Everyone has the Krypton bulbs...but the xenon are rare in a store. You can order from Flashlightking....


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## mdocod (Nov 4, 2006)

> And why would the 2x18500 overtake the 3xCR123 in output? The CR123 batteries don't have a discharge curve like an alkaline battery.



a lithium primary cell, (in this example taken from Silverfox testing of a Sanyo cell)... will start off at about 3.2V into a 1 amp load... after about 5 minuts that drops to about 2.65V where it the curve flattens out and stays there for most of the duration of the test..
so with 3 of these cells, you'd have near 9.6V at the bulb for the first few minuts (assuming we are talking a bulb that uses around 1 amp, maglight bulbs are right in this territory). quickly deminishing to 7.95V after a short while.
in contrast, a typical 18500 cell will start a 1 amp load at about 4.1V from a full charge., so a pair would be near 8.2V at the bulb, but there is no sudden drop-off in performance after 5 minuts. So you get a nice steady discharge slope... The 3x123 configuration really kicks the bulbs butt for the first few minuts, then drops way down... li-ion can give you a more usefull and reliable discharge curve for overdriving.


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## Icebreak (Nov 4, 2006)

Brighteyez said:


> I think the guy was referencing a 5 cell bulb in both cases, and clearly, a reasonable person would not use a 5 cell bulb with 3 CR123s.


Really? I don’t think that all the folks that have successfully done this are unreasonable.

Overdrive is the name of the game. W is a product of V x A. Suggesting the use of higher wattage lamps as a solution is meaningless. Should it be a 15V 1A lamp or a 1V 15A lamp? If it’s a 1V 15A lamp what is the required discharge capability of the battery?

Understanding the relationship between the lamp and the power source is critical to understanding how to modify an incandescent flashlight. Even with this understanding sometimes coincidence, mistakes and luck can help. Actually experimenting and building them will cause the greatest understanding.

Here are WhiteHot's beamshots: These are using 3 series 123. In each photo a 1499 is on the right for reference. It can be seen the OEM 5 cell is slightly beating the Xenon Star 6 cell. It beats the 6 cell OEM by a greater margin. It stands to reason that Lighthouse one's 5 cell Xenon Star would beat the OEM 5 cell and have better color. He's able to run the 5 cell Xenon Star because he's using 2 series 18500 as mdocod explains. That lamp is known to instaflash in a 3 series 123 setup.

GH24




KPR112




6 cell Xenon Star




5 Cell stock mag bulb




BigD SLA low





Lighthouse one -

This is the first time I've heard of this combination being built. That it beats your XPR103 in a 4C Mag says a lot. It must be a nice color. So, congratulations and blaze on with your guilt free, $35.00 torch.


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## AFAustin (Nov 4, 2006)

Lighthouse one said:


> I'm using protected 18500 cells...I'm sure unprotected would be fine too. No mods are necessary- except the spring may be too strong. I'm not trying to compete with mag85's here...just a nice size and powerful light that costs under $35 total- including a new 2 c mag! THe hardest part is finding the magnum xenon 5 cell bulbs! Everyone has the Krypton bulbs...but the xenon are rare in a store. You can order from Flashlightking....



Lighthouse,

I have a couple of 5D Mags, w/ Magnum Star bulbs, and they are very good throwers, indeed. Your great idea for this mag mod has my attention---this kind of throw in a 2C size, rechargeable, and in a very economical package seems like a value leader. In doing the math, though, I'm coming up with a bit more than your $35 figure---can you pls. break it down for me?

Thanks


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## adirondackdestroyer (Nov 5, 2006)

Is there alot of battery rattle when using 18500 cells in a 2C mag? I would think there would be unless you wrapped them in something or used PVC to put them in. 

I'm still waiting to buy the kit from Download. Has he started selling any of them yet?


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## Lighthouse one (Nov 5, 2006)

New 2 c cell mag at Home Depot.$16.00 2 18500 cells.. $6.25 each at e-electronics.net (Mark from cpf) 1 bulb $3 to $4 each...Around $35...hey I round things off! I wrapped the batteries in some thin cardboard I had. No rattles for me!


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## mdocod (Nov 6, 2006)

I tried mine with a 4 cell krypton on 2x17500 last night... working good so far, very bright.


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## AFAustin (Nov 6, 2006)

Lighthouse one said:


> New 2 c cell mag at Home Depot.$16.00 2 18500 cells.. $6.25 each at e-electronics.net (Mark from cpf) 1 bulb $3 to $4 each...Around $35...hey I round things off! I wrapped the batteries in some thin cardboard I had. No rattles for me!




Thanks, L/1. That's a good price for the protected cells.


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## AFAustin (Nov 7, 2006)

Best online deal I've found yet on a 5 cell Magnum Star: $3.56 + $2.95 shipping = $6.51. Looks like you can buy 2 bulbs for the same shipping amt., but with 3, shipping jumps way up!?

http://www.action-lights.com/flashlights/maglite/accessories-and-bulbs/mag-num-star-lamp.asp


Come to think of it, though, I believe Greg at Brightguy told me once that, with something small like bulbs, to contact them and they could ship in a padded envelope for a reduced shipping charge. Might end up being an even better deal: 

http://www.brightguy.com/products/MagLite_5_Cell_Lamp_Magnum.php


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## TigerhawkT3 (Nov 11, 2006)

I have a similar setup, with a 3x123 in a 2C and a 5-cell Mag-Num. However, I can't get it to a tight focus. It seems that the bulb can't get high enough into the reflector. Any suggestions?


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## Ty_Bower (Nov 11, 2006)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> Is there alot of battery rattle when using 18500 cells in a 2C mag?


I started using 18650 cells in a Mag2C. At first I wrapped them in paper to keep them aligned. Then I found a piece of 1 inch vinyl tubing works perfectly.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1532760&postcount=18


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## speederino (Nov 11, 2006)

The Mag2c with 5 cell Mag krypton bulb was my very first 'hotwire'...my wife loves that light! Plenty of light for when she drops the back of her earring on the carpet! Wrapped two 17500 cells I had lying around in some paper to cut rattle and had to mash the spring a little to cut down on the tension. Other than that, it was a beautiful simple mod!

I know Meijer's is a regional retailer, but if live close to one they do stock the 5 cell Mag krypton bulb 2-in a pack for $4.

You're running the 5 cell Xenon bulb? Holy crap, I read somewhere that didn't work. May have been in reference to 3x123. Anybody compar-o with the 5 cell krypton?


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## Waffle (Nov 11, 2006)

I have one of these myself. I really like it.


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## Icebreak (Nov 11, 2006)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> I have a similar setup, with a 3x123 in a 2C and a 5-cell Mag-Num. However, I can't get it to a tight focus. It seems that the bulb can't get high enough into the reflector. Any suggestions?



TigerhawkT3 -

Is your light using an OEM reflector? If so it's odd that it won't focus.

Here's a long shot. I bought a custom Al reflector. I didn't know that it was desinged specifically for bi-pin applications. It had a cam on it and it was really well made by FiveMega. It did not allow PR based lamps to rise high enough into the reflector. It set in a zip-lock for months. I was putting together a new ROP and wanted to try this reflector one more time. 

I focus my Hotwires laterally (side-to-side) by bending the flanges on the PR base. I thought I'd try bending the flange on this ROP down equally all the way around and it worked.

Maybe this will work for your light.

Also, be aware that your set-up is known to fail by insta-flash. The KPR112 does too but some folks go ahead and use them. It's just a couple of bucks.


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## ghostrider (Nov 12, 2006)

I have a Mag 2C that I did a slight mod to. It has the Modamag MOP reflector, and is running the MagNum Star Xenon 5 cell bulb (krypton bulb won't fit the reflector) on three of AW's rechargable, protected 123's. These batteries are 600mah, and regulated. 

I've been running this setup for several months with no trouble. The runtime seems to be about 30-40 minutes, and so far I have only had to switch batteries once. 

AW suggested that I should use the Krypton 5 cell bulb because he said that I would only get about 5 hours on a bulb, but the krypton won't fit in my reflector. I also recently obtained a P91 for my 6P/9P, and the Mag 2C has much more output and is whiter.

P.S.
If someone could recommend a better bulb for this setup that would fit my reflector I would be grateful.


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## Icebreak (Nov 12, 2006)

litho123's CA1499


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## ghostrider (Nov 12, 2006)

Thanks!


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## TigerhawkT3 (Nov 12, 2006)

Hey Icebreak,

Everything in that Mag is stock. Stock body, stock head, stock reflector, stock window, and stock 5-cell Mag-Num. The only differences are a cut-down spring, 3x123, and paper spacers. I can't figure out why it won't focus.


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## Icebreak (Nov 12, 2006)

Did you try bending the PR flange down? That should let it pertrude a little higher through the locking ring and into the reflector. Sounds like something else is wrong but this might get it to a focusable area.


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## AFAustin (Nov 12, 2006)

Thank you very much, Lighthouse one, for this simple and beautiful mod idea. I managed to come up with a Magnum Star 5 cell bulb, and a couple of (unprotected) 14500s this weekend and tried them in my Mag 2C. I was very surprised at the result----an incredibly long throwing, and very thin and laser-like beam, with a wide and dim spill. We're talking mini "light saber" here! I had been looking for just such a creation, but never thought I would get it by easily putting together such common components in a small, light, and very economical package!

If this set-up performs this well with 14500s, I figure it will perform a bit better on 18500s (less voltage sag with greater mAh?), and the runtime should be much better. (I don't know what the runtime is even on these 14500s, but I must've run it 30-40 minutes this weekend, with very little dimming). So, PP sent to AW, for a couple of his new protected 18500s. Can't wait to try them.


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## persoontje (Nov 16, 2006)

Hi,
How bright would it be if you use a 2D maglite with 6AA's (with 3aa to D adapter) If this is a noob question sorry, i'm a noob


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## PeteBroccolo (Nov 16, 2006)

I like using the KPR118 or Maglite 6 cell xenon bulbs on 3 RCR123A 3.0 volt protected regulated cells with HS cammless reflector and borofloat lens.


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## mdocod (Nov 16, 2006)

4 cell bulb popped the other night with batteries fresh off charger... was fun while it lasted.. back to the 6 cell xenon till I can track down some 5 cell bulbs...


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## Pokerstud (Nov 17, 2006)

Here has been my experience. First thing I did was get a piece of 3/4" ID ( 1" OD ) plastic vinyl tubing at Home Depot. Cut it to 4". Work it all the way down the inside of the 2C battery tube. It will be very snug, but a perfect fit. No tailcap spring mods needed. The 18500's will be a bit snugger than the 123's, but hardly any slop, no rattle. I tried 2 x 18500 protected with a mag 5 cell num star bulb, ok overall, wanted more. Tried 2 x 18500 with a Pelican 3854 LOLA ( ROP low bulb ), and much better. Tried 3 x 123 with a Pelican 3854 HOLA ( ROP hi bulb ), and was impressed.

AT first, I stippled the stock mag reflector myself to remove the ugly artifacts mags are known for, and it worked well. Then I upgraded to a camless medium stippled metal reflector and a borofloat lens. I was surprised that I did'nt need to shim the metal reflector, was perfect without them. I got the reflector from Light-Edge for $20, borofloat lens from Lighthound for $5.50, and the protected 18500 from Lighthound for $6-$7.

I am waiting for some Carley H1499p and 1057p bulbs from Litho123


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## Pokerstud (Nov 17, 2006)

Niteowl said:


> I am using protected 2x18650 cells in a 2.5C to run the ROP low. That is a 3C cut down for the extra length. Also, member FM has made a TAILCAP designed for this purpose, it is deeper allowing use of any 18650 cells simply changing the cap, he's sold out at this time. The cheap route is to remove the spring, deanodize the bottom of the tailcap and use a tiny spring. Member download has a KIT in the works to avoid the deanodizing step. I just got one of these and have yet to try it, looks very promising, hassle free.
> 
> I believe 2x18500 cells will fit with no modification, some one else will have to verify. Of course, the cell capacity is reduced.
> 
> ...



Download's kits are not ready yet, so could you elaborate a little more on the tailcap and spring mod to use 2 x 18650 please?


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## wquiles (Nov 17, 2006)

This is my neighbors' favorite incandescent light: 2C, two 18650 cells, 5-cell M*g bulb, plus a Lightly textured Al reflector 

My favorite is my regulated N2 or MN20 on an SFM6, but that is a whole different ball of wax :naughty: 

Will


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## Niteowl (Nov 17, 2006)

Pokerstud said:


> Download's kits are not ready yet, so could you elaborate a little more on the tailcap and spring mod to use 2 x 18650 please?




You need to remove the anodizing from the bottom of the tailcap for electrical conection. Some use a lye (drain cleaner), others remove the anodizing mechanically, i.e. Dremel tool with wire brush. Using the lye requires caution as it can damage skin, eyes, etc.

To replace spring some use aluminum foil crumpled up, little bits of wire bent to stay in the bottom and touch cell. I've seen someone use a Mini-Mag spring, don't recall how that was affixed to tailcap. I think the bottom coil was spread out to fill bottom of tailcap.


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## wquiles (Nov 17, 2006)

Niteowl said:


> I've seen someone use a Mini-Mag spring, don't recall how that was affixed to tailcap. I think the bottom coil was spread out to fill bottom of tailcap.


I also have used silver two-part epoxy (after removing the anodizing from the bottom) to keep the spring in place 













Will


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## Pokerstud (Nov 18, 2006)

If anyone has used PVC in the battery tube instead of vinyl tubing, please tell me what size you used and did you do anything special. I got some schedule 40 PVC 3/4" and the OD is ever so slightly to big. Thx.


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## wquiles (Nov 18, 2006)

Pokerstud said:


> If anyone has used PVC in the battery tube instead of vinyl tubing, please tell me what size you used and did you do anything special. I got some schedule 40 PVC 3/4" and the OD is ever so slightly to big. Thx.


That is what I used, but I have to put in my lathe to take the OD to fit in the body. Since PVC/plastic is so soft compared to a sharp carbide bit, it goes FAST !!!

Will


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## swampgator (Nov 18, 2006)

Pokerstud said:


> If anyone has used PVC in the battery tube instead of vinyl tubing, please tell me what size you used and did you do anything special. I got some schedule 40 PVC 3/4" and the OD is ever so slightly to big. Thx.


 

Deja vu?
I'll measure what I used and post in a little bit.


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## jabajet (Nov 19, 2006)

CPVC is smaller OD than PVC and fits nicely - may actually need a little tape on the outside to shim it.



Pokerstud said:


> If anyone has used PVC in the battery tube instead of vinyl tubing, please tell me what size you used and did you do anything special. I got some schedule 40 PVC 3/4" and the OD is ever so slightly to big. Thx.


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## Brighteyez (Dec 11, 2006)

You have a Fry's in Austin, why don't you just get them there. They charge $3.19 each for the Mag-Num Star bulbs.



AFAustin said:


> Best online deal I've found yet on a 5 cell Magnum Star: $3.56 + $2.95 shipping = $6.51. Looks like you can buy 2 bulbs for the same shipping amt., but with 3, shipping jumps way up!?


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## AFAustin (Dec 12, 2006)

Brighteyez said:


> You have a Fry's in Austin, why don't you just get them there. They charge $3.19 each for the Mag-Num Star bulbs.



Didn't know Fry's sells them. Thanks, Brighteyez.


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## Any Cal. (Dec 12, 2006)

The 3/4 cpvc fits the 123s well, dunno about lith ions. It needs quite a few wraps of tape to snug it up. Looks good though if you do a nice job of it. Just do a ring of tape at top and bottom of tube. I did notice that it seems you can fine tune your focus a bit by removing the lens, turning the reflector in the head 90 degrees, and then starting over.YMMV


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## Norm (Dec 12, 2006)

wquiles said:


> That is what I used, but I have to put in my lathe to take the OD to fit in the body. Since PVC/plastic is so soft compared to a sharp carbide bit, it goes FAST !!!
> 
> Will


If you don't have a lathe you could hacksaw a slit the length of the tubing and this will alow for some compression.
Norm


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## AndyTiedye (May 5, 2007)

If you use thinwall PVC instead of schedule 40, you might not have to machine it down.

Though I don't see why people are bothering with 18500s/18650s when li ion C
cells are available. More power and more runtime.


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## KevinL (May 6, 2007)

wquiles said:


> I also have used silver two-part epoxy (after removing the anodizing from the bottom) to keep the spring in place
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, awesome. Far and away the best way of securing a ROP spring that I have ever seen. 

Try the ROP bulb folks.....you are unlikely to be disappointed


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## Bushman5 (Oct 14, 2007)

hey neat mod (2C with 3 CR123) ..thanks! as soon as i get my 4C Maglite, (which will be the new host for my Malkoff drop in) i'll have a 2C host to try this mod.....except i'm going to use Rechargeable :naughty: CR123s and a PR base machinery lamp bulb i found...its 12 - 16volts and has a heavy duty filament, designed for vibration!


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## Buckfever (Oct 14, 2007)

The 3/4" I.D. Heater Hose that you can pick up at an Autoparts store works real well on the C sized mag.

The 2X p18650s can be too long for the 2C even if removing the tail cap and anondizing.

For this mod with the 5 cell bulb, the p18500s give plenty of run time so that's a much easier setup, just be sure to mod the spring to bend the edge of the spring down away from the cells so it doesn't damage the Li-Ion cells. Also probably need to cut the spring down a little so it isn't so tight.


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