# XP-G R5 1xAAA Titanium Flashlights: IlluminaTi vs. Preon



## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2009)

Two flashlights that are very similar in cutting-edge LED technology, but somewhat different in execution.

Which one is for you? If not both, then maybe read comments from myself and others to decide. 

First of all, let me post a picture of several "bare" metal flashlights in the first post. The second post, I will get to a head-to-head comparision of the IlluminaTi and Preon.

*PLEASE NOTE: I paid full retail price for each and every one of these flashlights. The lights were NOT provided specifically for review, in fact the sellers were unaware of any intent to review when shipped.*


Left to Right, also weight with eneloop and with accessories as pictured, also PWM frequency I measured on medium: 
Maratac AAA S/S, 35g, 200 Hz
4Sevens Preon Ti, 34g, 2406 Hz
Fenix LD01 S/S (Polished+Old Fenix Lobster Claw), 55g, 1250 Hz
IlluminTi XP-G, 36g, 990 Hz
ITP A3 EOS Upgraded S/S, 44g, 180 Hz







Now let me show a picture of the individual beamshots.

Locked exposure, color balance, and focus, 2m (6') from wall, light on camera.

Eneloop AAA, all fully charged the day before.

Maratac AAA (XP-E Q5):





Preon I (XP-G R5):





Fenix LD01 (XR-E Q5):





IlluminaTi (XP-G R5):





ITP A3 EOS (XP-E Q5):


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## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2009)

Now I'll concentrate a little on our two competitors to satisfy your XP-G desire.

In all pictures, the Preon is on the left, and the IlluminaTi is on the right.

For the beamshots, some exposure adjustment is allowed. Without, low is too low and high is too high for photos. This shows that both lights have a nice spacing between levels.

The cells are eneloop AAA, I measured the OCV at 1.308 and 1.297. The slightly higher voltage I put in the Preon. Tailcap RMS current measurements are also included.

It seems like the Illuminati is slightlly more efficient. The PWM rate (see two post down) is lower, but not noticeably so. If half the PWM frequency results in better efficiency (comments welcome), I'd rather have it. It could also be my sample IlluminaTi's emitter has a relatively better efficiency than the sample Preon's emitter.






LOW - Preon: 128 mA, IlluminaTi 89 mA 





MEDIUM - Preon: 260 mA, IlluminaTi 267 mA 





HIGH - Preon: 880 mA, IlluminaTi 851 mA 





Is there much of a difference between these lights? Not really if you look at beamshots alone. However, there is a lot more in the details.

Both flashlights are twisties as supplied by the manfacturer. The Preon has a clicky option if you spend the extra $, the IlluminaTi does not, with the advantage of shorter length.

The Preon has a gold-plated tail spring that is superior electrically, but some report the spring may fall out on a cell change. The Illuminati has a stainless steel spring that is not as good electrically, but I have yet to hear a report of a misplaced spring.

The IlluminaTi is heavily knurled with a rectangular pattern. It is possible to operate single-handedly, even with wet hands. For the Preon, it is more difficult because the surface is slippery smooth.

Both light have been reported to have gritty threads. Some usage and lube change will resolve this on both lights. I have inspected the threads on both lights, they are cut excellent and there are no issues on either. I find them consistent with other titanium lights I have owned.

Both lights are nicely engraved with manufacturer information. The Preon has serial numbers also laser engraved, this is only supposed to be done on early runs. 

Both lights are shipped in presentation boxes with a custom-cut foam opening. Both lights came with a battery, 4sevens ships the Preon with a Duracell alkaline, Battery Junction ships theirs with an Energizer Lithium primary AAA, and also a good quality keychain squeeze light.

The major accessories to these lights are keychain and pocket clip attachments. 

The Preon arrived with the clip attached, and the keyring attach was in the accessory bag. There is no keychain or split ring, just the attachment point that replaces the material thickness where the pocket clip was. For the Preon, you must choose one or the other. Changing from the pocket clip to the keychain attach requires removing the tailcap and o-ring, which is a greasy proposition. Great care must be taken when changing the pocket clip, because turning the clip around the body leaves a deep scratch (steel on titanium). A thick piece of paper is recommended, and replacing the clip at the same rotation will help to hide the as-delivered scratch.

The IlluminaTi has a drilled hole for the keychain. [Edit: Please see post #95 for an area of concern] The keychain is bright nickel plated steel, and very sturdy. It arrives attached, and in the package is held at a distance by the foam inside the box. After removal from the foam, the keychain split ring refuses to touch the body or tailcap, a nice design. The claw end of the keychain also avoids the highly polished areas of the light, landing only on the knurled section.

I have not personally attached the pocket clip on the IlluminaTi. [Edit: I have, please see post #97. From what I understand, it can be attached in either forward or backward direction. The keychain does NOT need removed to do this. However, it is reported that the clip interferes with tailstanding. Perhaps someone will clarify. [Edit: Some do, some don't. Due to similarity to ITP/maratec products, if your clip doesn't allow tailstanding try a swap with another clip. Also see post #97.

Both light have very well centered emitters, thanks to a molded centering device directly below the reflector. Both emitters are very clean. The tints of the samples I have are close, but the Preon is "greener". An aluminum reflector and glass lens sits up front. Both reflectors have texture (light orange peel)

The back end of both lights is interesting too. The 4Sevens has a generously sized "47" laser-engraved into the back. The IlluminaTi does not boast in the same way, it is mirror polished instead. Both tailstand quite well, although with the keychain attached, the IlluminaTi may require two tries.

The IlluminaTi gets the nod for size. It's significantly shorter, although I really don't know where an extra cm is going to cause difficulty in use.

The two lights are styled very differently. The Preon is shaped like a baseball bat, baseball fans will probably think it's cool. The Preon has a more "stripped, elegant" look, while the Illuminati is jeweled in appearance and yet a little more industrial. The Preon to me is much like the tail end of a Craftsman ratchet, shiny but not very interesting except for the Preon logo. The IlluminaTi looks like nothing else in particular.

I layed the two flashlights down in front of my wife, and asked her which one was better looking. She never saw either before. Without hesitation, she pointed to the IlluminaTi. I agree.

Which one would hold up better in use, finish-wise? My guess would be the IlluminaTi. The polished regions are recessed, and will likely remain polished. The Preon has lots of exposed surfaces to scratch. The Preon is also subject to accidental scratching from the pocket clip, unless you have the tailcap on really tight. I imagine the Illuminati will also get scratches from the pocket clip. I'd like to hear other's experiences.

Perhaps this wear issue will dictate which light you buy. If you want to shirt-pocket your flashlight, you'll probably want the Preon. But then again, you'll probably want the Preon 2 instead (2xAAA). I really like the 2xAAA format for the inside of a suit jacket, so I have a Preon 2 and enjoy it. But if you want a keychain light, the IlluminaTi will probably be for you; the Preon 1 is somewhat out of it's territory on a keychain.

If you want to go by performance, the IlluminaTi gets a slight nod. With slightly less current, slightly higher output, and better tint, there is no doubt the IlluminaTi is my better sample. The difference in PWM frequency is negligible in my opinion.

If you are looking for special modes such as strobe/SOS/beacon, the Preon provides, while the IlluminaTi does not. However, you must twist back more than a handful of times to get there. If you need the SOS mode due to an incapacitating situation, you may be SOL.

The price point is very close on the two lights at $55. Based on the beamshots in post #1, what you get for spending twice as much money over a Maratac or ITP is not only a titanium body, but also a broader beam. Do not expect a stronger hotspot, expect a broader hotspot.

If I had to choose only one, which would it be? Definitely the IlluminaTi. It's the more attractive, practical, efficient light for me. I'm not a pocket-protector type of Engineer, I'd rather carry my flashlight discreetly, then make a big show when I pull it from my pant's pocket. I like the ability to change modes single-handedly, and brush-off any small scratches that occur because they are not obvious.

Both flashlights feature my preferred L>M>H operating sequence.

Don't get me wrong, both lights are well done and deserving of your hard-earned cash. I'd just pick the IlluminaTi for my lifestyle.


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## madmook (Dec 1, 2009)

Much appreciated! Showdowns between these two have been eagerly anticipated.

Edit: Would also love to see some runtime numbers for the medium modes from these two.


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## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2009)

Runtimes may come later. These would take time because I have a manual setup and manual recording method. Hopefully the tailcap current readings I posted will allow you to make an estimatation until I do so, if I do so.


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## olrac (Dec 1, 2009)

I have both the Iluminati and the Preon I and I agree with everything Paul has said, he is spot on. I am waiting for the Ti clicky and Preon II body to arrive (who knows when?) to see if this gives the Preon enough additional functionality to warrant having both.


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## gunga (Dec 1, 2009)

Thanks for the great comparison EngrPaul.

Now can you do an emitter swap on one of these?

:devil:


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## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2009)

gunga said:


> Thanks for the great comparison EngrPaul.
> 
> Now can you do an emitter swap on one of these?
> 
> :devil:


 
Swap to what? These are the best small emitters on the market! :twothumbs

Both heads are potted, I assume. :candle:


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## chibato (Dec 1, 2009)

Very nice comparison, this helps a lot. Thanks EngrPaul.:thumbsup:


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## olrac (Dec 1, 2009)

EngrPaul said:


> Swap to what? These are the best small emitters on the market! :twothumbs
> 
> Both heads are potted, I assume. :candle:



Gunga like myself is a neutral emitter freak, its about tint not absolute lumens (my Maratac SS with an XP-E Q3-5A) is still my No.1 go to AAA light)

Edit: Until I open up my Iluminati. :devil:


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## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm of the opinion that small lights should have the maximum output per watt, regardless of tint. 

Brighter lights should have better tint, because runtime is not as much of an issue, and eye strain or beam reflection becomes an issue. 

I'll stick by my R5 preference over Q4 max for neutral white. And you know I love neutral white!


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## olrac (Dec 1, 2009)

Different strokes for different folks! :wave: And that's why lovecpf.

Though I will say on a single AAA the iluminati has a better tint than the preon, waiting to see what the preon it looks like driven by two AAA's

Iluminati on left Maratac Q3-5A on right both on high (maratac has a 10440 in it so you can have your cake and eat it too)


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## BentHeadTX (Dec 1, 2009)

Thank you very much for the review, EngrPaul

When I first heard of both lights, I leaned towards the Preon. Then I saw the size of the Preon VS the IlluminaTi and I had second thoughts. I will be using the light on a keychain and prefer lower lows, durable finish, make it small and decent runtime. Looks like the IlluminaTi wins VS the Preon on all counts. 

Guess what I'm getting for Christmas!


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## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2009)

Here's a couple pictures to help you see the laser engraving used on the IlluminaTi.


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## olrac (Dec 1, 2009)

great pictures! :thumbsup:


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## MicroE (Dec 1, 2009)

EngrPaul -- Thanks, that was great.
I have been "patiently" waiting for 4-Sevens to get the Al Preons in stock. 
Two days ago I got tired of waiting and I placed an order for an IlluminaTi.
I love toys.

Do either of these lights have an audible noise/hum/whine?


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## EngrPaul (Dec 1, 2009)

MicroE said:


> EngrPaul -- Thanks, that was great.
> I have been "patiently" waiting for 4-Sevens to get the Al Preons in stock.
> Two days ago I got tired of waiting and I placed an order for an IlluminaTi.
> I love toys.
> ...


 
Neither one dies, nor does my Preon 2 Ti.


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## Dan FO (Dec 1, 2009)

Dan FO said:


> Ok, I bought the IlluminaTi, ITP A3 EOS SS and a ITP A3 EOS Titanium at the same time. The A3 SS was flawless from the get go and the A3 Titanium was also flawless but the action was a little stiffer. The IlluminaTi was basically dead on arrival. I tried the head on the other two bodies and got it to flicker a little but still no go. I then cleaned all threads on all 3 lights and relubed them along cleaning all contact points with DeoxIT including the springs. Still nothing. I then tightened the head down on the IlluminaTi and smacked it bezel down on a wooden butcher block. I then tried it again and it has functioned as it should ever since. Evidently something in the head was not making contact and the smack (bezel down) completed the electrical path that was not secure. The threads are nowhere as smooth as the ones on the ITP A3 Titanium but I am sure the will work in with time.



I don't think I will be getting a Preon as I like the form factor of my IlluminaTi better, it is functioning fine now after I taught it who was boss.  The beam is all flood so I will be alternating with the ITP A3 EOS titanium which has more throw. I don't care about tail standing but I really like the center attachment for the splitring on the ITP for direct hang neck carry.


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## MicroE (Dec 1, 2009)

Thanks. I hate whining lights.


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## madmook (Dec 1, 2009)

For what it's worth, my Ti Preon 2 emits a high-pitched whine on low and med modes, but is silent on high.


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## flasherByNight (Dec 1, 2009)

mwhahahahahahaha 
I have nothing constructive to offer, just that "it's about time" :nana:


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## Burgess (Dec 1, 2009)

to EngrPaul --


Thank you for your hard work.


:goodjob::kewlpics::thanks:


BTW, my Preon 1 came with a Duracell alkaline. You really got an Energizer ?
_


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## Dan FO (Dec 1, 2009)

No, the IlluminaTi comes with a lithium Energizer.


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## MattK (Dec 2, 2009)

Best. Review. EVER! :twothumbs:


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## Haz (Dec 2, 2009)

Great review, thanks EngrPaul


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## davidt1 (Dec 2, 2009)

I don't care for multi-mode twisty lights any more, but I must commend you for a balanced review.


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## applevision (Dec 2, 2009)

Outstanding review *EngrPaul*! Many thanks! lovecpf


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## DArklite (Dec 2, 2009)

Paul,
Excellent review and mouth-watering pictures 
I was sitting on the fence on the IlluminaTi but thanks to you I'll be ordering one this week.

BTW.. that polished SS LD01 looks curiously like the one you sold me with the Blue Cree (circa pre-swapped emitters)


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## toby_pra (Dec 2, 2009)

Nice beamshots!!! Great review!


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## Henk_Lu (Dec 2, 2009)

Great review, thanks for this one! :wave:

I did exactly the same comparison yesterday and I came to about the same conclusions. While the pictures clearly show the hotspots are about equal in size, I could have sworn the one on the IlluminaTi was slightly bigger. Perhaps this is on my lights only or my methods were not scientific enough, I held the lights in my hands and compared. It could also be just a feeling, fact is, that both beams are the best I've seen so far on an 1 x AAA light and that I slightly preffer the one of the IlluminaTi! 

The design is really different for both lights, while the IlluminaTi can be classified as "normal" flashlight design with jewellery like finish and outstanding knurling, the Preon1 is more special with its body that just gets wider direction head and the mirror finish. If you use the lights, the Preon1 will be the first to get ugly scratches and you'll think about applying a crotch brite to get rid of them and give the light a satin finish. I didn't do this yet, I just twistied the clip around a few times to get an even ring instead of pieces of scratches...

EngrPaul is right, the IlluminaTi can serve on a keychain, while the Preon1 doesn't even have an attachment possibility. Installing a ring on the clip would be the only possibility and that wouldn't really look good. The Preon1 is made for a shirt pocket and I would recommend the Preon2 too for that usage, another winner of its class without really having opponents. If you remove the clip of the Preon1, it will just roll around, so I let mine on while I wouldn't install the one on the IlluminaTi, this point goes clearly to the Preon1.

I also did the wife-test : She wants to keep her LD01ss on her keychain! Well, she likes it rugged and wants neither the IlluminaTi nor the Preon1. I should tell you that she also thinks the SPY007 and the LunaSol20/27 look awfull. She is my flashaholic-meter, the more awfull she says a light is, the more I'll love it. You bet it arranges me that she sticks to her "normal" lights and isn't after me to get my precious... :devil:

A note for the neutral-white modders : The IlluminaTi is available (limited) with an XPE-Q5, get one of these for about 10 bucks less to try a swap!

I tried to compare the tints, both lights can be qualified as delivering clear white light on high, I can't discern any tint. On the lower modes, they tend to appear purplish/blueish, this is the normal result of PWM. Some people say XPG tend to be greenish, maybe (at higher levels?), in my eyes you can't speak of a tint-lottery anymore, the emitted light is more or less pure white. Of course, it is extremely difficult to produce real white light and sensitive people will always notice a light colored tint...

The showdown between IlluminaTi and Preon1 is clearly won by the IlluminaTi. As EngPaul says, both are top notch, the best in the 1 x AAA class you can buy, but the IlluminaTi is best of the best! :thumbsup:


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## DM51 (Dec 2, 2009)

Very nice review with excellent photos. Moving to the Reviews section...


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## EngrPaul (Dec 2, 2009)

Thanks for the comments guys and gals, I was hoping the review would be useful to you all 



Burgess said:


> BTW, my Preon 1 came with a Duracell alkaline. You really got an Energizer ?
> _


 
 Fixed 



DArklite said:


> BTW.. that polished SS LD01 looks curiously like the one you sold me with the Blue Cree (circa pre-swapped emitters)


 
Yes, but this one's still white and head is unopened. Just polished. This particular sample is the best Fenix LD01 I've come across, good tint and an overachiever.


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## coyote (Dec 2, 2009)

thnx EP! :twothumbs


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## MicroE (Dec 2, 2009)

I got my Illuminati today and there is one significant difference from the unit that was reviewed. My IlluminaTi goes Medium>Low>High, not L>M>H.
I am disappointed.


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 2, 2009)

MicroE said:


> I got my Illuminati today and there is one significant difference from the unit that was reviewed. My IlluminaTi goes Medium>Low>High, not L>M>H.
> I am disappointed.



I will be interested in hearing Matt's explanation on how that happened . Very odd mistake ?

L/M/H was another positive and requested selling point on the Illumina Ti .

I would not want M/L/H as my personal choice .

*Please put your comment and problem in Matt's Sales thread so he can comment on the error .*

.


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## PeaceOfMind (Dec 2, 2009)

MicroE said:


> I got my Illuminati today and there is one significant difference from the unit that was reviewed. My IlluminaTi goes Medium>Low>High, not L>M>H.
> I am disappointed.


 
That certainly is a bizarre problem. Here's a random theory: maybe your medium mode is broken so that it is lower than the low mode. Or they loaded the wrong code into your light :tinfoil:.


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## Flic (Dec 2, 2009)

MicroE said:


> I got my Illuminati today and there is one significant difference from the unit that was reviewed. My IlluminaTi goes Medium>Low>High, not L>M>H.
> I am disappointed.



Sounds like you have an ultra-collectible on your hands. I am sure someone out there would pay a premium for it.


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 2, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MicroE* 

 
_I got my Illuminati today and there is one significant difference from the unit that was reviewed. My IlluminaTi goes Medium>Low>High, not L>M>H.
I am disappointed.
_




Flic said:


> Sounds like you have an ultra-collectible on your hands. I am sure someone out there would pay a premium for it.




Good point , ...... hadn't thought of it that way .

Many who prefer that UI sequence might pay a premium ?

I wonder if only 1 got out into circulation ?
.


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## TommyGuns (Dec 3, 2009)

Very nice review EngrPaul THANK YOU! :twothumbs

I think you've convinced me to not cancel my order. I was worried that the IlluminaTi may not twist smoothly enough. I think I'll risk it after reading your review. Sounds like Titanium twistys are just that way. I'm hoping one handed operation will be okay. I've bought some Graphite Lubricant at home depot in the key section today hoping it might help. Waiting for my IlluminaTi to arrive. 

You wrote * "However, it is reported that the clip interferes with tailstanding. Perhaps someone will clarify." * I think what this means is when the clip is attached so the lense will be facing up. Then the end of the clip extends beyond the tail of the flashlight so tail standing won't work. Personnally if this is true? I'd say that was poor design of the clip and that they should make the clip a length that will work in either direction and allow tail standing. Or for this price include one of those slick reversible double clips.

You also wrote *"Great care must be taken when changing the pocket clip, because turning the clip around the body leaves a deep scratch (steel on titanium). A thick piece of paper is recommended, and replacing the clip at the same rotation will help to hide the as-delivered scratch."* I'm not sure what you mean by a thick piece of paper is recommended? Do you mean use the paper only while snaping the clip on then remove the paper? Or just always leave the paper in to avoid scratching? I imagine if you trimmed the paper just right so one wouldn't be able to see it, if you wanted to leave the paper in? Have you done this before?

Sorry for all the questions just was wondering because I'd prefer the clip on, but don't want to scratch it.

oh and BTW - How would I estimate the run times by using the figures you suggested?

Thanks!


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## Marduke (Dec 3, 2009)

Henk_Lu said:


> EngrPaul is right, the IlluminaTi can serve on a keychain, while the Preon1 doesn't even have an attachment possibility. Installing a ring on the clip would be the only possibility and that wouldn't really look good. The Preon1 is made for a shirt pocket and I would recommend the Preon2 too for that usage, another winner of its class without really having opponents. If you remove the clip of the Preon1, it will just roll around, so I let mine on while I wouldn't install the one on the IlluminaTi, this point goes clearly to the Preon1.



Umm, you can replace the clip with the keyring attachment...

http://chows.smugmug.com/photos/693405007_QLqQe-L.jpg
http://chows.smugmug.com/photos/693402514_KgXUk-L.jpg
http://chows.smugmug.com/photos/693402715_VNw5q-L.jpg
http://chows.smugmug.com/photos/693402620_bfRhR-L.jpg
http://chows.smugmug.com/photos/693402988_LFoUJ-L.jpg


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## Dan FO (Dec 3, 2009)

Just put a piece of scotch tape on the inside of the clip and trim it with a razor blade, this will prevent the scratches.


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## TommyGuns (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks for the tip Dan FO!


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## MicroE (Dec 3, 2009)

Flic -- Thanks for the laugh! I hadn't thought of it demanding a premium price as a collectable.
Unfortunately, I really like the idea of the L>M>H. I was hoping to use the IlluminaTi to replace my Fenix L0D. Now I have two lights that go M>L>H.

Edit: Now I realize that I bought the wrong part number!


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## MattK (Dec 3, 2009)

MicroE - I've just heard of this and addressed this in the CPFMP thread. 
Please post there if you have an R5 or a Q5 as the only report I have seen of this is on a Q5 version. 
Link to Q5 thread: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=205765&page=3


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## selfbuilt (Dec 3, 2009)

Excellent comparison review Paul - very thorough and clear, well done. :thumbsup:

I hope to have both the Preon and IlluminaTi in my lightbox soon, and will do the usual battery of runtime tests on both.

I'm currently prepping my 1xAA, 2xAA and 1xCR123A round-ups for an update, but I'm thinking its time to do add a 1xAAA round-up to the mix (not to mention a 2x18650). Too many lights, too little time ...


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 3, 2009)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *TooManyGizmos* 

 
_Quote:
Originally Posted by *MicroE* 

 
I got my Illuminati today and there is one significant difference from the unit that was reviewed. My IlluminaTi goes Medium>Low>High, not L>M>H.
I am disappointed.


*Thanks for the laugh!*
Unfortunately, I really like the idea of the L>M>H. I was hoping to use the IlluminaTi to replace my Fenix L0D. Now I have two lights that go M>L>H.




Good point , ...... hadn't thought of it that way .

Many who prefer that UI sequence might pay a premium ?

I wonder if only 1 got out into circulation ?
.
................................................................................................................................................

MicroE ,

I don't understand , .... Where's the laugh ?


And why did you comment , within my " Quote Box " ?

Your comment should be outside the box , please .
.

I had to use copy and paste to include your comment ........ 
because your post had nothing to quote using the "Quote" button feature .

You were the one who said you were disappointed by what you got, being M/L/H.

What did I miss ?

_


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## MattK (Dec 3, 2009)

MicroE's light confirmed as Q5 so we have 3 reports, only with Q5's.


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## kevinm (Dec 3, 2009)

I ran the Illuminati on the provided Energizer lithium and only got 23 hours of runtime!:thumbsdow

The little card specifies 30 hours on an alkaline AAA. Anyone else have this problem?

Thanks,
Kevin


*edit* Sorry; low level.


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 3, 2009)

Hours ?

At what level of output ?


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## Flic (Dec 3, 2009)

kevinm said:


> I ran the Illuminati on the provided Energizer lithium and only got 23 hours of runtime!:thumbsdow
> 
> The little card specifies 30 hours on an alkaline AAA. Anyone else have this problem?
> 
> ...



Actually the card states 30 hours on low using a L91 lithium primary, not an alkaline. Still 23 and 30 are not the same thing. It may in fact privide 30 hours total when used for a couple of hours at a time.

Personally I think 23 continuous hours is darned good though.


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## kevinm (Dec 3, 2009)

I thought that was supposed to be on alkaline. I'm not that disappointed then. It's significantly brighter than my Preon with both on NiMh. Are the runtimes for the Preon for lithium primaries as well?

Still, I'd like the longer runtime with a little less output...Maybe the Q5 does that...


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## RGB_LED (Dec 3, 2009)

EngrPaul, great review. :twothumbs I've been holding off picking up one of these lights since I have been waiting for a couple of large Christmas orders but, after this, I'm not sure if I can hold back. 

Interesting that the Maratac SS and IlluminaTi are almost the same weight since I thought Ti would be a bit lighter... I'm guessing that the 35 gr. weight of the IlluminaTi includes the lobster claw, correct?

Btw, someone mentioned an R2 version... IIRC from MattK's IlluminaTi threads, there were the original R5's and then the Q5's that were put in some lights by mistake (identified and discounted) but no R2's. Is that correct?


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## Flic (Dec 3, 2009)

RGB_LED said:


> Btw, someone mentioned an R2 version... IIRC from MattK's IlluminaTi threads, there were the original R5's and then the Q5's that were put in some lights by mistake (identified and discounted) but no R2's. Is that correct?



Post #29 speaks about an R2, but in fact the other run had an XP-E Q5.


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## MattK (Dec 3, 2009)

kevinm said:


> I thought that was supposed to be on alkaline. I'm not that disappointed then. It's significantly brighter than my Preon with both on NiMh. Are the runtimes for the Preon for lithium primaries as well?
> 
> Still, I'd like the longer runtime with a little less output...Maybe the Q5 does that...


I love it when stuff resolves itself. 
I cannot speak to Preon runtimes but I would assume they're for alkaline as that is the included battery.
Q5 runtimes shouldn't be different - the drive currents are effectively the same - it's the LED's themselves that account for the difference in output.



RGB_LED said:


> EngrPaul, great review. :twothumbs I've been holding off picking up one of these lights since I have been waiting for a couple of large Christmas orders but, after this, I'm not sure if I can hold back.
> 
> Interesting that the Maratac SS and IlluminaTi are almost the same weight since I thought Ti would be a bit lighter... I'm guessing that the 35 gr. weight of the IlluminaTi includes the lobster claw, correct?
> 
> Btw, someone mentioned an R2 version... IIRC from MattK's IlluminaTi threads, there were the original R5's and then the Q5's that were put in some lights by mistake (identified and discounted) but no R2's. Is that correct?



The illuminaTi, with keychain installed, is 24g, with the included L91 it's 30g - Paul's 36g figure comes from test using a NiMh battery - I checked and with a 1Ah NiMh I got 36g as well. The keychain attachment is 8g.

I just weighed an illuminaTi against a Preon with both 'naked' (no clip, no keychain, no battery); illuminaTi 16g, Preon 18g. The Preons clip was 2g.

Don't look at the weight difference between the illuminaTi and the Maratac SS as 'only 8g' as that is misleading since, let's face it all of these lights are just over 1oz. That 8g is about 25% heavier and 25% makes the difference much more clear than 8g, right? 

No R2's - Q5's and R5's only.


----------



## MicroE (Dec 3, 2009)

TooManyGizmos said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *TooManyGizmos*
> 
> 
> ...



You had quoted Flic in your post. For some reason, Flic's quote (that was within your quote) didn't show up in that post. 
What I found funny was the idea that my IlluminaTi might be a collector's item worth a premium due to the odd M>L>H sequence. I'll go back and fix that post.

Now that I realize that I ordered a Q5 instead of an R5 (doh!) the whole thing seems a bit less amusing. I didn't realize that there were TWO IlluminaTi's on Matt's site.
Live and learn.


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Dec 3, 2009)

MicroE ,

I pasted your comment above the box , where I quoted Flic's reply to your comment. At this point things have been changed , so I'm not even clear on what happened . Oh well .... never mind . Back to OT .

I'm so confused ...... I'm just Outt'a here ! 

.


----------



## Calina (Dec 3, 2009)

Does anybody know the lenght of the Preon 1 as a twisty and as a clicky? 

How long is the IlluminaTi?


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## PeaceOfMind (Dec 3, 2009)

selfbuilt said:


> I hope to have both the Preon and IlluminaTi in my lightbox soon, and will do the usual battery of runtime tests on both.
> 
> I'm currently prepping my 1xAA, 2xAA and 1xCR123A round-ups for an update, but I'm thinking its time to do add a 1xAAA round-up to the mix (not to mention a 2x18650).


 
I'm looking forward to all of the above!


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## olrac (Dec 4, 2009)

One thing I did notice about the Iluminati Q5 M/L/H version is that it has a lower PWM rate than the R5 L/M/H version.
It is seems identical to my ITP EOS SS. I would imagine this should have some effect on runtimes


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## kevinm (Dec 4, 2009)

MattK said:


> I love it when stuff resolves itself.
> I cannot speak to Preon runtimes but I would assume they're for alkaline as that is the included battery.
> Q5 runtimes shouldn't be different - the drive currents are effectively the same - it's the LED's themselves that account for the difference in output.



The flux bin gives the output difference at the same current. I'm wondering if the forward voltage is very different between the LED's. That should affect runtime as it would affect current draw, right?

Back when the R2's came out, I know there were some with really high Vf compared to the Q5's, but with Cree not binning that way, all thsi becomes a bit tricky...

Someone with a Q5 version willing to kill a battery on this? 

Thanks,
Kevin

P.s.- I like this light enough that I sold the titanium Preon. Good work, Matt


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## MattK (Dec 4, 2009)

kevinm said:


> The flux bin gives the output difference at the same current. I'm wondering if the forward voltage is very different between the LED's. That should affect runtime as it would affect current draw, right?
> 
> P.s.- I like this light enough that I sold the titanium Preon. Good work, Matt





Yes, you're absolutely right - the Vf affects the runtime - but I don't have the Vf data for the Q5's.

:devil:


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## MKLight (Dec 4, 2009)

olrac said:


> One thing I did notice about the Iluminati Q5 M/L/H version is that it has a lower PWM rate than the R5 L/M/H version.
> It is seems identical to my ITP EOS SS. I would imagine this should have some effect on runtimes



It sounds like the internals are of the ITP and Maratac's. Is the exterior still titanium? There have been other accidental mix-ups with SS and Ti in the past with other manufacturers. 

I don't want this post to sound negative in any way. It sounds like a factory error - not Matt's doing...Matt seems to be doing all he can on his side. Good job, Matt! :twothumbs


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## 1anrm (Dec 4, 2009)

MKLight said:


> It sounds like the internals are of the ITP and Maratac's. Is the exterior still titanium? There have been other accidental mix-ups with SS and Ti in the past with other manufacturers.
> 
> I don't want this post to sound negative in any way. It sounds like a factory error - not Matt's doing...Matt seems to be doing all he can on his side. Good job, Matt! :twothumbs



No definitely not Matt's but that would make it a second factory error (IlluminaTI with XP-E).


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## EngrPaul (Dec 4, 2009)

This particular picture will probably reveal something about the sourcing of these lights, and the possibility for a mix-up or two...


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## clg0159 (Dec 4, 2009)

Excellent review, This is the matchup I was waiting for!


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## Haz (Dec 4, 2009)

EngrPaul said:


> This particular picture will probably reveal something about the sourcing of these lights, and the possibility for a mix-up or two...



It appears they all came from the same mother


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## EngrPaul (Dec 4, 2009)

Haz said:


> It appears they all came from the same mother


 
And her initials are I.T.P. ? :tinfoil:


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## moses (Dec 4, 2009)

I wonder if anyone know if either can take Li-ion cells....

Moses


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## MKLight (Dec 4, 2009)

That's pretty funny about ITP is the parental figure here... The AAA arena "fight" was created and led by the same company...


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## sideman7 (Dec 5, 2009)

Dejá vu... I make my living as a musician, and have seen (firsthand) this same exact situation develop with saxophones coming out of Asia (Taiwan and China specifically) over the past several years. Companies making products and selling them to whoever will buy them and putting their logo (usually laser etched) on them as if it's theirs. Fortunately, the quality of these products have drastically improved over the years as the manufacturers are unusually open to improvements, can implement them almost immediately and will make specific, buyer based alterations (as you can see here). The factory I dealt with made a bizarre assortment of stuff... Saxophones, x-ray film, sunglasses...

I have a feeling this will become almost commonplace in short order since it has infiltrated the flashlight world...


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## Pontiaker (Dec 5, 2009)

I have a love hate relationship with my Preon. The build quality and price point is awesome, the green tint and twisty absolutly sucks! Really hoping my clicky switch comes soon. Iam running 10440 in mine all the time now, nice and bright on high. The damn thing flickers on low since day one with reg AAA batts and still now with the 10440 batts. The threads are starting to break in, they still feel like crap now but they seem to be getting better. I think I will like it better with the clicky but I just dont know how much longer I will use it as an EDC over my Streamix lights...Fenix ldo1/lod heads on Streamlight body/clicky tailcap. The Streamix has a much better color and is about the same brightness on hi using the 10440 batts, but they are alum and stainless, no Ti.


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## Patriot (Dec 5, 2009)

The quality of several recent reviews has be outstanding, including this one. What great timing for a comparison between this two with all the talk and hype going on. Also an excellent idea to include the other lights for reference as well. Nice work as always Paul. :thumbsup:

P.S. I though it was great that you asked your wife's opinion about the looks of the two lights. I always respect the female perspective as they usually have a great eye for the "pretty factor."


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## Burgess (Dec 6, 2009)

So, any* Run-Time graphs* on these little beauties yet ?

:candle:
_


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## RGB_LED (Dec 7, 2009)

MattK said:


> The illuminaTi, with keychain installed, is 24g, with the included L91 it's 30g - Paul's 36g figure comes from test using a NiMh battery - I checked and with a 1Ah NiMh I got 36g as well. The keychain attachment is 8g.
> 
> I just weighed an illuminaTi against a Preon with both 'naked' (no clip, no keychain, no battery); illuminaTi 16g, Preon 18g. The Preons clip was 2g.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the detailed weight info Matt. Btw, my comments were more observation than criticism since, you're right, the Maratac weighs next to nothing my pocket so my soon-to-arrive IlluminaTi will be the same. The Fenix LD01 on the other hand is a wee bit more noticeable but only due to the increase in length and not so much the weight. Can't wait for my IlluminaTi!


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## MattK (Dec 7, 2009)

Sure thing!


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## kanarie (Dec 8, 2009)

I just received my IlluminTi XP-G R5
Here are some photo's/observations

lineup

ITP A3 standard/ITP A3 Upgraded/ ITP A3 Upgraded SS/IlluminaTi /Fenix LOD-CE





Difference in PWM
IlluminaTi /Fenix LOD-CE /ITP A3 Upgraded
I am very sensitive to pwm. Even the fast pwm of the IlluminaTi is noticable from the corner of my eyes





different attachments:
As you can see the (left) IlluminaTi can tailstand. The hole for the splitring is very small 





Fenix LOD-CE /ITP A3 Upgraded/IlluminaTi all on high





at 1 meter I get 
Fenix LOD-CE /ITP A3 Upgraded/ IlluminaTi
high 330/ 430/ 360 lux
low 34/ 14/ 21 lux
Have to say the Illuminati has a much bigger hotspot. Compensated (same size hotspot) I get:
ITP A3 Upgraded/ IlluminaTi
high 436/ 670 lux

a ceiling bounce also shows the IlluminaTi as brighter

ITP A3 Upgraded/ IlluminaTi
high 3,7/ 4,5 lux


power measurements (tailcap. as in all the tests I used aaa Duraloops):

Fenix LOD-CE /ITP A3 Upgraded/ IlluminaTi
high 0,8A/ 0,81A/  0,88A
med 0,27A/ 0,22A/ 0,28A
low 0,1A/ 0,03A/ 0,09A

The draw of the IlluminaTi at low is one third of the ITP A3 upg. at low

observations :
The reflector of the IlluminaTi the same as the reflector of the ITP A3 Upgraded SS and somewhat rougher than that of the other ITP A3's

the IlluminaTi has nice knuckling and that is needed because it is pretty hard to switch modes (a good grease works miracles) 

The clip of the IlluminaTi is the same as on the ITP A3 Upgraded SS.
it is placed separate in the box (not attached) so you don't have to worry about getting your IlluminaTi scratched removing it.

All in all I think the IlluminaTi is the next evolutionarily step of the ITP A3/Maratac platform: 
newer bin 
better keychain attachment/tailstand
Higher PWM
Titanium!!
great value!!!

Also a aluminum version of this flashlight at the current ITP pricelevel will be a winner!

No downsides?
Yeah, low can be lower but frankly I like it as it is in this low/med/high configuration.
the threads are a bit rough (due to the use of Titanium?)
at low the runtime will be only 8-10 hours on Nimh not enough to spend an Arctic night.
The intern. shipping cost ($18 same as 40%) of Batteryjunction are to high. I know it is insured shipping but they have to have an cheap uninsured option. (or help to organize a groupbuy for you loyal CPF members)
My IlluminaTi came from a groupbuy and had to travel around the globe about three times ! 
But anyhow: MattK, great flashlight!!


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## MattK (Dec 9, 2009)

kanarie - Nice writeup! 

Please note:
We don't organize group buys - they're organized by an individual in the destination country.
We've already worked with a few 'organizers' for GB's and would be happy to work with more.


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## paulr (Dec 9, 2009)

Nice review and photos. I haven't figured out the functional issues yet but to my subjective aesthetic tastes, the knurling on both the Illumina and ITP is ugly. I also have a weird unfavorable reaction to the top-mounted keychain stud on the ITP and would prefer either the Fenix setup or an Arc-style lug. I do like the short length of both lights though. The Preon body looks nice (though longer) and I'm not sure I'd worry about it being slippery since I have a couple of Peak smooth-body lights and it's not a problem. The Preon clip and keyring gizmo both look kind of cheap and I think for this type of light, a bezel-up clip makes much more sense (for use as an impromptu hat-light).

I'm glad the Illumina got rid of the beacon modes. I don't understand the Chinese obsession with loading all that computerized crap into flashlights. The extra modes is the main thing that turned me off from the Preon. Maybe they will make a version without them sometime.


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## Pontiaker (Dec 9, 2009)

paulr said:


> Nice review and photos. I haven't figured out the functional issues yet but to my subjective aesthetic tastes, the knurling on both the Illumina and ITP is ugly. I also have a weird unfavorable reaction to the top-mounted keychain stud on the ITP and would prefer either the Fenix setup or an Arc-style lug. I do like the short length of both lights though. The Preon body looks nice (though longer) and I'm not sure I'd worry about it being slippery since I have a couple of Peak smooth-body lights and it's not a problem. The Preon clip and keyring gizmo both look kind of cheap and I think for this type of light, a bezel-up clip makes much more sense (for use as an impromptu hat-light).
> 
> I'm glad the Illumina got rid of the beacon modes. I don't understand the Chinese obsession with loading all that computerized crap into flashlights. The extra modes is the main thing that turned me off from the Preon. Maybe they will make a version without them sometime.


I agree with you about the knurling and the key ring stud....The smooth Preon is no problem to hold onto. I like bezel up and bezel down clips, wish they could be both on all lights. This type of little light does not need the beacon or any other type of strobe but on my larger Tac models I want it IF it works right....The Preon is programmable so it doesnt matter, if you dont like it program it out, thats what I did. I sure like the tint of the ITP lights better than the Preon...


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## 4sevens (Dec 9, 2009)

paulr said:


> I don't understand the Chinese obsession with loading all that computerized crap into flashlights. The extra modes is the main thing that turned me off from the Preon. Maybe they will make a version without them sometime.


Paul, you should take a look at how the preon operates. You only get L/M/H during normal use. We chose to include the special modes (and hidden) because the ultralight backpackers absolutely demand the sos and strobe modes since it's useful in outdoor situations. I agree that those modes don't need to be accessed accidentially, thats why we came up with a novel solution and tucked them away.


kanarie said:


>


I have at least three CPF'ers as well as non cpf'ers report that PWM in the Fenix makes them immediately want to throw up. Those customers promptly send the product back.

When we were designing the flashlight and were considering PWM due to the need to have a compact circuit, we determined that a high PWM frequency was absolutely necessary so we don't make certain people sick and nausiated


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## EngrPaul (Dec 9, 2009)

The Preon has the advantage of a clip that is quite strong and doesn't spin around (when the tailcap is well tightened, as mine was from the factory), and allows the light to tailstand when attached. 

The Illuminati does not allow tailstanding at all either way the clip is attached, it's thinner, and has nothing to stop it from spinning around. However, the clip and keyring attachments can be done simulaneously.

Perhaps the pocket clip and keychain loop can be double-stacked on the Preon for simultaneous use? I never tried it...


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## 4sevens (Dec 9, 2009)

EngrPaul said:


> The Preon has the advantage of a clip that is quite strong and doesn't spin around (when the tailcap is well tightened, as mine was from the factory), and allows the light to tailstand when attached.
> 
> The Illuminati does not allow tailstanding at all either way the clip is attached, it's thinner, and has nothing to stop it from spinning around. However, the clip and keyring attachments can be done simulaneously.
> 
> Perhaps the pocket clip and keychain loop can be double-stacked on the Preon for simultaneous use? I never tried it...


There is the teardrop eyelet in the clip for your imagination


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## kanarie (Dec 10, 2009)

I took the split ring off today and I discovered a potential problem.
The whole for the keyring attachment is drilled very near to the top (about 0,1mm metal left, in real live it looks actually worse than in the picture)
I have a feeling the keyring will "eat" through it in weeks or with a bit of a pull.
If so; will this be covered under warranty?


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## olrac (Dec 10, 2009)

Titanium has a significantly higher tensile strength than aluminum where this type of keychain attachment has been a problem (i.e., Alum. P1D) so elastic fatigue should be minimal and since the split ring is smooth metal to metal abrading also shouldn't be a problem. Only time will tell in real life use though. I agree that a little more meat to the attachment would be more reassuring.


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 10, 2009)

I think it will last quite a long time that way ...... unless you swing on it .


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## Christoph (Dec 10, 2009)

Here is my work around;



C


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## LoM (Dec 10, 2009)

Excellent reviews on this topic lovecpf
 
It really seems that ITP it jackpot with their last flashlights big family, being the IlluminaTi the best looking and best performing of them all . Unfortunately its too late to get myself an illuminaTi for Christmas so I will have to deal with the other ones AAA lights I bought 
 
Personally dont like the Preon 1 philosophy, on the other hand, believe Preon 2 it’s a keeper and planing to use mine in the briefcase as ... just because


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## paulr (Dec 11, 2009)

4x7, thanks for the info about the sos/beacon, I didn't realize it was possible to get rid of them. I managed to find the info on your site after much searching. It would also be great to be able to get rid of the 3 levels. I prefer the purity of 1-level lights (just as I prefer black-and-white photographs to color ones) but I can understand the usefulness of two levels on practical grounds in an edc light. 3 levels just seems like unnecessary complexity to me. 

One other minor issue worrying me: the preon 2 says max voltage 3.0v. Does that mean using 2xL92 aaa lithium cells is not advisable?

Additional: I wish you'd bring back the neutral white leds. They seem a lot more pleasant to use.


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## kanarie (Dec 11, 2009)

> Here is my work around;
> 
> 
> 
> C


good idea! might try that


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## Pontiaker (Dec 11, 2009)

What Titanium is used in the Preon/Quark lights, CP, 6al4v or some other alloy? Hopefully 4/7's can answer this for us?


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## Calina (Dec 11, 2009)

paulr said:


> 4x7, thanks for the info about the sos/beacon, I didn't realize it was possible to get rid of them. I managed to find the info on your site after much searching. It would also be great to be able to get rid of the 3 levels. I prefer the purity of 1-level lights (just as I prefer black-and-white photographs to color ones) but I can understand the usefulness of two levels on practical grounds in an edc light. 3 levels just seems like unnecessary complexity to me.
> 
> One other minor issue worrying me: the preon 2 says max voltage 3.0v. Does that mean using 2xL92 aaa lithium cells is not advisable?


 
I am still waiting for an AAA light with the LD10 U.I. The LD10 has multiple levels and strobe (and SOS :thumbsdow ) but you can choose to use it with two levels only (or one) and you can turn it on either on high or on low.


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## MKLight (Dec 11, 2009)

Pontiaker said:


> What Titanium is used in the Preon/Quark lights, CP, 6al4v or some other alloy? Hopefully 4/7's can answer this for us?




It's not 6al4v...I think it's grade 2. It's the same that is in the Quark Ti. I'll try looking it up in CPFMP...I'll be back!


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## MKLight (Dec 11, 2009)

Here it is:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2374947&postcount=169

*Originally Posted by 4sevens 
It's TA4 Alloy (Ti-3Al)*


_Isn't that like Grade 9 (commercially pure) alloy? It's the same grade used in the Olight M20 Ti.

According to an online definition (eFunda), Ti-3Al
Quote:
"is a Beta Alloy grade Wrought Titanium Alloy. It is composed of (in weight percentage) 3% Aluminum (Al), 8% Vanadium (V), 6% Chromium (Cr), 4% Molybdenum (Mo), 4% Zirconium (Zr), and the base metal Titanium (Ti)".
That makes it about 75% pure, at least by weight. I think the Ra Clicky titaniums are Grade 2, which is 99.5% pure (but 6x more expensive). In addition, it seems like Grade 9 is as strong as higher grades, but better at higher temps:

Quote:
"Grade 9 titanium is also know as Ti-3AL-2.4V or simply Ti-3-2.5. Grade 9 is grouped in with the commercially pure grades because it is cold rollable. Grade 9 strengths fall between Grade 4 and Grade 5. It has excellent corrosion resistance and is used in aerospace and industrial applications. Grade 9 can be used at higher temperatures than Grades 1 through 4."_



Take care,
MK


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## THE_dAY (Dec 11, 2009)

:thumbsup:Thanks for the info on the titanium MKLight!


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## MKLight (Dec 11, 2009)

You're welcome! I hope that helped!


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## Haz (Dec 12, 2009)

kanarie said:


> I took the split ring off today and I discovered a potential problem.
> The whole for the keyring attachment is drilled very near to the top (about 0,1mm metal left, in real live it looks actually worse than in the picture)
> I have a feeling the keyring will "eat" through it in weeks or with a bit of a pull.
> If so; will this be covered under warranty?


 
My IlluminaTi looks quite similar to yours too, the edge where the split ring is attached is bent upwards a little as well, it's fairly thin.


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## EngrPaul (Dec 12, 2009)

The pocket clip is the exact same clip used on the Maratac and ITP.

The hole is drilled very close to the end of the light on mine. I would hope they improve this. 

The torque of the split ring being pressed against the body could cause the distortion in the hole as shown in the previous post. Meaning, the very feature that keeps the split ring from hitting the body could be degrading the attachment point in use.


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## EngrPaul (Dec 12, 2009)

UPDATE:

I just checked the interchangeability of the pocket clip with my S/S ITP EOS AAA light.

They are almost exactly the same, *but the top bend in the clip is shorter*. Because of this, with the ITP pocket clip WILL allow tailstanding, unlike the one supplied with my IlluminaTi.

EDIT:

I am pleased to report that this clip does not spin around freely when installed, and the end of the clip does not actually rest on the polished surface, it actually sits on the edge of the last knurl. So the only scratch that's made is the one when you put the clip on, and that's hidden.


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## HKJ (Dec 12, 2009)

EngrPaul said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> I just checked the interchangeability of the pocket clip with my S/S ITP EOS AAA light.
> 
> They are almost exactly the same, *but the top bend in the clip is shorter*. Because of this, with the ITP pocket clip WILL allow tailstanding, unlike the one supplied with the IlluminaTi.



My IlluminaTi has no problem tailstanding with the supplied clip. There are probably multiple runs of the tailclip with different measurements.


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## kanarie (Dec 14, 2009)

> My IlluminaTi looks quite similar to yours too, the edge where the split ring is attached is bent upwards a little as well, it's fairly thin.


Outch that looks pretty bad
mine has not bend up like yours (yet)
I think this is a serious problem . Did you already contact MattK?


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## gtwace (Dec 14, 2009)

My illuminaTi also has its hole drill pretty much near the side, but i guess the 2mm width makes up for the strength of the thin sides. It is not easy to tear through 2mm of titanium


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## Haz (Dec 14, 2009)

kanarie said:


> Outch that looks pretty bad
> mine has not bend up like yours (yet)
> I think this is a serious problem . Did you already contact MattK?


 
I have made contact on the Battery Junction website. They are happy to exchange the light, if I pay postage both ways, which I don't have a problem with.

The person who replied said that is no guarantee that the replacement would be much better than what I already have. In addition, as requested by customer service, I sent them a few pictures and I asked in a few follow up emails whether the illuminaTi was out of specification, strangely there was no reply to that question, so I never found out.

My main concern is that if I send the light back to Battery Junction, I will simply get another light with a similar hole placement. 

I'm not sure whether this is a common issue on most of the IlluminaTi, or is considered to be 'normal' and within the acceptable tolerance of the IlluminaTi.

Overall, I do think this is a great light. It is the one that finally knock the ArcAAA off the keychain, holding off many strong contenders along the way. If they make improvement on the hole placement, it will be perfect. Initally I thought the thin attachment point on the ArcAAA was a problem, but this one is significantly thinner, 1/10 of the thickness.


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## Haz (Dec 14, 2009)

gtwace said:


> My illuminaTi also has its hole drill pretty much near the side, but i guess the 2mm width makes up for the strength of the thin sides. It is not easy to tear through 2mm of titanium


 
I'm not sure whether the 2mm width will compensate for the thinness. It's like a tearing a flat piece of paper vs tearing a tightly rolled up piece of paper. The cross-sectional area may be the same for both, but the rolled up piece of paper has more strength


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## kanarie (Dec 15, 2009)

> I have made contact on the Battery Junction website. They are happy to exchange the light, if I pay postage both ways, which I don't have a problem with.
> 
> My main concern is that if I send the light back to Battery Junction, I will simply get another light with a similar hole placement.


I think I also have to live with it shipping two ways will cost me $36...

I polished the chrome coating of the sharp corners and the middle part of the keyring (there seems to be "softer" copperlike metal underneath) hope that will help


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## Dan FO (Dec 15, 2009)

kanarie said:


> Outch that looks pretty bad
> mine has not bend up like yours (yet)
> I think this is a serious problem . Did you already contact MattK?



If it worries you, just get a titanium split ring which is softer than the steel one or get a brass one like is used on the Aeon & Nautilus.


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## HighLight (Dec 16, 2009)

I wasn't around this forum for a long time but I'm glad I found this discussion. It seems the IluminaTi may be the flashlight to replace the Fenix LOD CE on my keychain. If I can only get around the fact that the keychain attachment doesn't seem very robust. The thin metal makes me feel uneasy. Any word on this being improved in future runs?


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## Morelite (Dec 16, 2009)

kanarie said:


> I polished the chrome coating of the sharp corners and the middle part of the keyring (there seems to be "softer" copperlike metal underneath) hope that will help


What chrome coating? Both of these lights are solid titanium, there shouldn't be any plating or coating on the light just polished Ti or are you talking about the keychain clip and chain parts?


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## MattK (Dec 16, 2009)

HighLight said:


> I wasn't around this forum for a long time but I'm glad I found this discussion. It seems the IluminaTi may be the flashlight to replace the Fenix LOD CE on my keychain. If I can only get around the fact that the keychain attachment doesn't seem very robust. The thin metal makes me feel uneasy. Any word on this being improved in future runs?



Not to make light of this but only 2 people have found this to be an issue with over 700 light shipped....


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## HighLight (Dec 17, 2009)

MattK said:


> Not to make light of this but only 2 people have found this to be an issue with over 700 light shipped....




Well you would know then so I would consider this not to be an issue when I make my purchase. Thanks!


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## kanarie (Dec 18, 2009)

> What chrome coating? Both of these lights are solid titanium, there shouldn't be any plating or coating on the light just polished Ti or are you talking about the keychain clip and chain parts?


of course I was talking about the chrome on the keychain ring not on the flashlight itself.

Don't get me wrong I still think it is a GREAT flashlight!
It maybe needs some attention in the next batch (an aluminum version would be more fragile) and if a failure occurs a good customer service...
A reassuring word would be nice though..


----------



## hazna (Dec 18, 2009)

Just received my illuminati today! Here are my initial thoughts:

-Its shiny and pretty! Nice packaging, which is perfect if you are giving it as a gift.

-Nice large hotspot, and fairly floody beam. Good for close quarters which is what I'd usually prefer from a keychain light

-My unit's tint probably errs towards being green but not overly so. I have a fenix L2D Q5 that has a greener tint.

-Lobster claw too big for keychain use. I'll look at ordering some mcgizmo clips to attach to the split ring instead.

-I agree with other posts that the top part of the split ring attachment is fairly thin. Whether this actually results in breakage, I don't know... I guess time will tell.

-It can still tailstand with the clip in place near the 'top' attachment point. Might not be able to tailstand if attached in the middle attachment point.

-Head gets a little warm from prolonged usage of high, howeverly too hot to handle.

-This is my first titanium light, I'm definitely not used to the stiff threads. I find I need to use two hands to change modes consistently. I've tried 'breaking it in', but so far all i've achieved is sore fingers from twisting it so much. I like the look of the knurling, but more aggressive knurling would be preferred to overcome the stiffness of a titanium twisty. At the moment this is probably the major turn-off for me... Its not an issue with the light itself, just an issue with the material used to make it... perhaps a aluminium version would suit me better.


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## HighLight (Dec 18, 2009)

MattK said:


> Not to make light of this but only 2 people have found this to be an issue with over 700 light shipped....



Make that 701 shipped because I just ordered one! With the sale price and the 5% CPF discount I think I snagged a deal!


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## Dan FO (Dec 18, 2009)

kanarie said:


> of course I was talking about the chrome on the keychain ring not on the flashlight itself.



Get a #1  --> http://www.niteize.com/productdetail.php?category_id=29&product_id=152


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