# USN Battle Lantern Advice



## jelsey01 (Jun 10, 2008)

Hey guys. Because I'm a flashaholic - and I'm a new dad, I got this light for Father's Day. My Mom picked it up from a antique store. It was labeled "WWII Navy Light". I did a little research and found that it's most likely a late 40's to early 50's Navy Battle Lantern. Although all the similar lights that I saw were bright yellow in color. I haven't seen a brown one yet. So if there is anything you can tell me about the light, that would be great. 

I've tried to replace the original 4.7v sealed beam PAR-36 bulb, but I can't find a bulb that is very bright. They all seem under driven. I've tried a 12v 35 watt (very dim) and an 12v 11w bulb (a little brighter). I've got a few 6V 30w spot bulbs on the way, but I'm guessing that I will only be able to use one battery at a time. The light holds 2 6v batteries. Any help? Thanks.


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## Outrider (Jun 10, 2008)

Hi Jelsey and welcom aboard ! Please forgive the breif reply, at work on lunch. From your excellent pic's it looks like the batts are in parallel - ie the voltage to the switch is 6 volts. verify this with a voltmeter. If i am correct your 6 volt bulb will be fine.
Congrats on a rare find!:welcome:


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## Drewfus2101 (Jun 10, 2008)

Thats an awesome looking light. Very nice find BTW. 

And I agree with the above. It looks like the batteries are in parallel, so it's just 6V. You could always rewire it for 12V. That light has alot of potential.


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## jelsey01 (Jun 10, 2008)

You guys are right. I should have known that after wiring commercial buildings when I was in high school (many years ago). Oh well. I tried to sequence them to 12v and it was much brighter, but the bulb was made to light gardens - so not really a good thrower. Hopefully the 6v spots that I got from ebay will work better. I'll post more pics when I get them. Thanks for the feedback!


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## Flash_Gordon (Jun 10, 2008)

Welcome to CPF!

An interesting find. I have never seen one in that color. It almost appears to be a Bakelite type material, but I assume it is a glass filled polyester resin like the yellow versions.

It is post WWII as the earlier lanterns used 2 #6 cells and bayonet base lamps. It is a 6V light with the batteries wired in parallel. The batteries you have pictured look rather old and tired, clearly not made for the US market. If you have not yet installed a fresh set of alkaline batteries, this will probably improve performance.

The sealed beam shown also appears to be non-standard. They typically use a #4546 sealed beam that has a clear lens, rather than the frosted/prismatic lens on yours. These are readily available and should also improve your output

If you want to maintain any collector value, do not make any non reversible mods. I always recommend keeping lights like this stock. The output and runtime should be adequate for its intended use.

BTW, the Navy is in the process of updating the battle lanterns with LED's and rechargeable SLA batteries. The white lanterns will have a 4 LED array and the red lanterns will have a 2 LED array. The will directly replace the incan sealed beam.

Mark


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## jelsey01 (Jun 10, 2008)

Flash_Gordon said:


> Welcome to CPF!
> 
> An interesting find. I have never seen one in that color. It almost appears to be a Bakelite type material, but I assume it is a glass filled polyester resin like the yellow versions.
> 
> ...



Flash,

Thanks for the info. After more research, and the 409 test, it IS Bakelite. There are some on ebay that claim they are WWII, but they are in very bad shape.

The batteries are new from Batteries Plus. They are standard industrial 6v. They do look rather "old school" though. They remind me of some 80's Duracells that I found recently.

I'm not thinking of modding this thing too much. I've seen the LED replacement bulbs for $50 - $100 (a bit too much) I could buy 2 flashlights for that! I just want to keep it as a bright functional display.


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## Flash_Gordon (Jun 10, 2008)

jelsey01 said:


> Flash,
> 
> Thanks for the info. After more research, and the 409 test, it IS Bakelite. There are some on ebay that claim they are WWII, but they are in very bad shape.
> 
> ...




There appears to be a readable label on the inside. Can you get a clear picture of it? It might give some interesting info including possibly the manufacturer. Maybe a date or date code.

The Bakelite case is most interesting. I wonder if this was from some interim batch or even a prototype.

The stock bulb is rated at 2.35W. You will not be able to run a 30W bulb for very long (or at all). Also trying to draw this much current might damage the switch or wiring. I am surprised that you can buy a 30W bulb in the same size and form factor. 

Mark


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## jelsey01 (Jun 10, 2008)

Flash_Gordon said:


> There appears to be a readable label on the inside. Can you get a clear picture of it? It might give some interesting info including possibly the manufacturer. Maybe a date or date code.
> 
> The Bakelite case is most interesting. I wonder if this was from some interim batch or even a prototype.
> 
> ...



The label is just a wiring diagram. No manufacturer or date. It shows you how to wire for batteries and for 110v AC/DC. 

Yeah the Bakelite thing is weird. I've only seen one other and it was a very different design with a wall plug that was cut off. 

The bulb from this one was a Westinghouse 4512N. It's a 4.75v that isn't made anymore. It looks very similar to the one in the pic. Kind of like a tractor light. The filament was intact when I got it, but when I put the new batteries in it only ran for a minute until it burned out. I'm not sure if the original light ran on different batteries or if someone replaced the bulb with the wrong type. 

Here is the pic.


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## X15 (Jun 10, 2008)

Being a volunteer on a WWII built USN ship I must say I've seen a fair number of brown style battle lanterns, a lot of them were fully or partially painted yellow by the Navy.

It's definitely not WWII though, those are metal, and smaller.


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## X15 (Jun 10, 2008)

After doing some reading on Bakelite and its production process, it's beginning to look like producing Bakelite in the appropriate gray or yellow whilst still retaining its strength was simply not economical, or even possible.

I suspect that the Bakelite lanterns were either furnished with a gray / yellow paint job. Or they were painted further on down the line due to a Navy directive, or the wishes of individual ships Officers / Chief Bosun's Mates.


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## Darien (Jun 10, 2008)

Jelsey01,

GE 4546 4.7V 0.5A works for me in a yellow BL. 

Silent Service:rock:
Darien


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## jelsey01 (Jun 10, 2008)

Darien said:


> Jelsey01,
> 
> GE 4546 4.7V 0.5A works for me in a yellow BL.
> 
> ...



I've seen that the 4546-1 is the replacement bulb, but I can't find any locally. Do you have a beamshot? How does it perform?


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## jelsey01 (Jun 10, 2008)

X15 said:


> After doing some reading on Bakelite and its production process, it's beginning to look like producing Bakelite in the appropriate gray or yellow whilst still retaining its strength was simply not economical, or even possible.
> 
> I suspect that the Bakelite lanterns were either furnished with a gray / yellow paint job. Or they were painted further on down the line due to a Navy directive, or the wishes of individual ships Officers / Chief Bosun's Mates.



The yellow paint job was probably done at the factory level to make them stand out more in low light situations. The yellow ones that I've seen are yellow in and out..... mmmmmm In-n-out! I don't think that they would have done such a thorough job at the end-user level.


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## Flash_Gordon (Jun 10, 2008)

jelsey01 said:


> The yellow paint job was probably done at the factory level to make them stand out more in low light situations. The yellow ones that I've seen are yellow in and out..... mmmmmm In-n-out! I don't think that they would have done such a thorough job at the end-user level.



The yellow lanterns are solid yellow molded polyester resin. The Navy came to the conclusion (after several decades) that a gray emergency light hanging on a gray bulkhead, in the dark, was not the best situation.

A modern aircraft carrier is equipped with about 4,000 of these lanterns.

Mark


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## Darien (Jun 10, 2008)

Only beamshot I have is in my limited memory bank. :laughing: They throw a very narrow beam, only designed for emergency lighting, plenty bright for the job in pitch black (think flooding in the torpedo room). They were mounted on bulkhead's with a sort of "T" mount for easy removal. I removed my mount and filled holes with sealant. The yellow one's are not painted by the end user. 

Jay Moulding Corp., Cohoes, N.Y. 12047
MIL-F-16377/53


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## lctorana (Jun 10, 2008)

OK, here's what you can do.

1) Take a dead lantern battery, remove the dead F-cells (we can make a carbon-arc lamp later!) and hide seven (7) x Sub-C or 4/3-A and a 1 ohm NTC inside. Wire up and re-seal.

1a) If you are rich enough, you can do this with TWO dead F-cells, each with *eight *cells, and with 2 1n5404 wired dos-a-dos, to allow parallel operation, and charging.

2) Replace the 4546 (6300 MSCP, ~17 lumens) with one of the following:

4515 spot (railway loco headlight, 6.4V 30W, 55000 MSCP, ~420 lumens)
H4515 spot (stage, 6.4V 30W, 67000 MSCP, ~450 lumens)
4042 medium beam (6.4V 12W, ~300 lumens)
4510 floodlight (tractor, 6.4V 25W, ~385 lumens)
4014 floddlight (emergency building, 6.4V 18W, ~565 lumens)
Note that these figures are BEFORE OVERDRIVE.


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## X15 (Jun 10, 2008)

On the ship I volunteer with (USS _Hornet_) all the Battle Lanterns were removed before we got the ship. Thus in turn, all of the ones currently on board were removed from ships of the Suisun Bay Reserve (Mothball) Fleet, leading to a diverse collection.

We have unpainted Bakelite lanterns, and ones that were painted yellow. We have yellow plastic ones, as well as gray (Bakelite? Plastic? Both?) ones that I have never really examined.

I've looked at the MILSPEC database, but the earliest spec on battle lanterns was from 1971, and it called for yellow plastic.


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## lctorana (Jun 10, 2008)

Here's what you can do (*12V version!*).

(Note that this mod requires modifying the actual lamp...)

1) Take two dead lantern battery, remove the dead F-cells (we can make a carbon-arc lamp later!) and hide fourteen (14) x Sub-C or 4/3-A and a 2.2 ohm NTC inside. Wire up and re-seal.

2) re-wire the light to put the two batteries in series.

3) Replace the 4546 (4.7V 0.5A, 6300 MSCP, ~17 lumens) with one of the following: 

H7604 spot (12.8V 50W, 100000 MSCP, ~1050 lumens)
H7614 flood (12.8V 50W, ~1250 lumens)
4595 fan-shaped beam (13V 100W, 60000 MSCP, ~1500 lumens)
Q4509 spot (aircraft landing, 13V 100W, 140000MSCP, ~2100 lumens)
4509 spot (aircraft landing, 13V 100W, 11000MSCP, ~2400 lumens)
4519 fan-shaped beam (marine, 13V 100W, 30000 MSCP, ~2550 lumens)
Note that these figures are BEFORE OVERDRIVE.


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## lctorana (Jun 10, 2008)

Here's a third answer, if you don't want to make special batteries:

1) With 2 x zinc-carbon 409/509/1209/1409, you can upgrade to:

4547 spot (4.75V 1.25A, 20000 MSCP, ~55 lumens)
2) with 2 x alkaline 529 batteries, you can upgrade to:

H7556 (6V 1A, ~73 lumens), but be prepared for this to dim as the voltage sags.
3) with 1 or 2 6V SLA batteries (6V SLA versions of this standard lantern battery are very common in Australia, don't know about USA), you can upgrade to:

H7550 spot (6V 8W, 25000 MSCP, ~69 lumens)
H7551 (emergency building, 6V 8W, ~100 lumens)
H7552 (emergency building, 6V 10W, ~118 lumens)
4042 (emergency building, 6.4V 12W, ~300 lumens)
All without overdrive. Note the last bulb will be a smidgin underdriven, so won't quite give the 300 lumens.

There's 3 different builds I've given you, interesting what you choose.


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## jelsey01 (Jun 11, 2008)

lctorana said:


> Here's a third answer, if you don't want to make special batteries:
> 
> 1) With 2 x zinc-carbon 409/509/1209/1409, you can upgrade to:
> 4547 spot (4.75V 1.25A, 20000 MSCP, ~55 lumens)
> ...



Damn, bro. I don't know what you sayin', but you special. (jay and silent bob strike back) I'm a chemical engineer. I can tell you how to turn mop water into drinking water, but you went over my head from the word "go".

As much as I would like to re-engineer the power source, I can't see that happening. You could, however, fit about 24 - AA's in there quite nicely.....hmmmmm. Anyway, I'm just looking for the best lamp for the power source that I have. I just want a very functional display light that I can use in case of emergencies / shining people in the eyes. Or whatever comes first.


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## lctorana (Jun 11, 2008)

jelsey01 said:


> Anyway, I'm just looking for the best lamp for the power source that I have.


 
Well, the very post of mine you quoted told you EXACTLY that.

Which bit didn't you understand?:thinking:


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## Burgess (Jun 11, 2008)

to Jelsy01 --

Very cool and interesting Battle Lantern you've got.

Old, vintage lights have such a charm and character, don't they ?

Thank you for sharing it with us. :thumbsup:



to lctorana --

When it comes to 6-volt lanterns,


*You Da' Man ! ! !*


:twothumbs

:wow: ___ :goodjob:
_


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## thidisbogus (Jul 21, 2019)

lctorana said:


> Here's what you can do (*12V version!*).
> 
> (Note that this mod requires modifying the actual lamp...)
> 
> ...



his is a very old post, but I hope you are still a member. I am interested in retrofitting my bakelite lantern like this description. How do you recharge the sub-c batteries or do you consider them disposable and have to fabricate another battery every time? Do you have a wiring diagram of this arrangement?

Best Regards,

Rodney


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