# REVIEW: Wolf Eyes P7 Sniper



## Wattnot (Jun 20, 2008)

Well here they come, folks! The P7’s are coming! Are you ready? Wolf Eyes appears to be first manufacturer of known high quality lights to release a quality P7 on the market and they busted out of the gate in high gallop leaving the rest standing still! This is a real flood monster but the throw isn’t bad either. Allow me to take you on a verbose journey into this great, new light (don’t worry, there will be plenty of pictures too!). 








*Manufacturer’s features and specifications* (from WE's site):

- Features a Seoul Semiconductors SSC P7 LED Emitter
- Up to 580 lumens of brightness when powered by 1 x LRB168A battery
- 2 modes function:
*Default mode:* Maximum brightness (100%) -> 30% brightness ->lowest brightness (2%) 
*Concealed mode:* Strobe -> SOS-> Beacon signal
- P7-Sniper bezel is compatible with wolf-eyes sniper and defender, explorer series flashlight
- Aerospace-grade Aluminum body, HA III Military grade hard anodized in black
- Lanyard attached and candle function, it can stand up on a flat surface as a candle
- Waterproof: IPX-8 standard
- *Runtime:* full brightness stage:1 hour with regulated output ; 2 hours with unregulated output.
*Body: *Aerospace grade aluminum construction.
*Reflector: *High temperature processed, layers of alloy coating films.
*Finish:* Low temperature (-20℃) hard - anodized (HA) finish treatment.
*Lamp:* SSC P7 LED Lamp Assembly 3.7-6.0V
*Switch:* Rapid switch between Morse-on and lock-on with over 50,000 times life cycle.
*O-ring sealed*: Splash proof.
*Beam:* flood beam with good combination of throw
*Weight without battery: *185g
*Length:* 150mm
*Body diameter:* 25.4mm
*Head diameter:* 47mm
*Color:* Tactical black 
*Package:* gift box




*Initial Impressions:*

The quality is evident right from the start with a nice, sturdy gift box with custom cut foam. My light arrived complete with a charger and battery. The lanyard was already installed on the P7. The build quality and finish exude the high grade quality and craftsmanship any Wolf Eyes owner is used to. I was surprised by the small form factor. The head is large but WE did a nice job transitioning it to the Raider/Sniper sized body with some radiator style fins. The material in the head seems slightly thinner than the main body allowing for excellent balance. You can even tailstand this puppy with surprising stability. It appears rugged enough but I wouldn’t rate the head suitable for “defender” duty due to the head’s lack of real mass. For it’s designed purpose as a flashlight, it’s just right. Of course one of the very first things I did was turn it on and WOW. This thing has OUTPUT! 








Now I'll let you get a real feel for the size, which is one of it's "biggest" attributes! Makes me love it even more!! From left to right: WE Raider, WE P7 Sniper (this review), Dereelight CL1H V3, Surefire A2, 18650 battery. 





You might notice a little "sheen" on the P7 Sniper. If the Raider has a flat finish then I would call this one "semi-gloss." It's one step shinier than the Raider, which is my only other WE light. There are of course O-rings all around, the threads are VERY smooth and came well greased (almost TOO well!). 









*UI:*

None of the functions of this light are programmable. I don’t find that to be a negative because they made some good choices for you. The three preset intensities are very diverse and I feel most people will be pleased. The SOS, strobe and beacon are contained in the “hidden” menu and I’ll get to those below. This light has a forward clicky, which I believe most people prefer. I’m one of them myself. I feel they are better suited for tactical use and allow for manual signaling and simple momentary use. If you grab the light and turn it on, it comes on HIGH. You get all 580 paint peeling lumens. If you want it to come on medium or low, you have to half press (or full press fast enough, if you’re into that) until it arrives at your mode, then fully click to lock it on with the chosen intensity. If you subsequently want to change the mode while it’s on you would need to turn it off then either half press or just turn it on and off repeatedly within two seconds. Wolf Eyes has come up with an excellent system to please both the SOS/STROBE lovers AND haters alike! It would be extremely difficult to accidentally end up with the strobe, sos or beacon (this light has all 3). To enter the “hidden” menu, as they call it for strobe/sos/beacon, you have to press/cycle 7 times. For example if you want strobe from the light being off you would half press through TWO cycles of HI-MED-LO then the seventh press would give you strobe. Once you do this you are now locked into the hidden menu and it will cycle STROBE-SOS-BEACON instead of HI-MED-LOW. At this point the ONLY way back to the other world is to shut it off for 2 seconds. 

Here's a little surprise for Y'All (_I'm not from the south . . . is that how they say it? Gene? Anybody?) _Here is a 15 second movie of the SOS in action. I feel WE got the timing right on this one and I wanted everyone to see it. Click HERE and hopefully you'll see the "movie." You get one full cycle and part of the next one so you should be able to get a feel for the complete cycle. They could have made the S's a tiny bit longer, but I seriously doubt anyone would mistake this for anything else.

Here's a look into the eye of the beast:







Now we'll move on to what you've all been reading for . . . the BEAMSHOTS! Okay, disclaimer time: My camera is so old the Smithsonian is asking for it for their "Stone age of Digital" display. I have a much better camera coming as soon as I can decide which Canon DSLR I want (experts welcome to PM me on this) but I wanted to get this review to "press" so here they are. I believe they're good enough at least for you to get an idea. The P7 will be first in single shots and on the left in dual shots. The other light is my good old CL1H with the 1.2 amp 1S pill. Both lights on 18650's. Captions will now be BELOW each photo.






P7 Sniper at 50 feet.








CL1H 50 feet






I had to include this . . . P7 on MEDIUM at 50 feet!





Here's both at 50 feet (P7 on left)






P7 at 100 feet





CL1H at 100 feet






P7 vs CL1H at 100 feet





P7 on MEDIUM at 100 feet





P7 at 150 feet (high only, no medium shot at this distance)





CL1H at 150 feet





P7 vs CL1H at 150 feet. 
At this distance it becomes evident that we are just starting to run out of range but the light is quite usable.







P7 ceiling bounce - wow, warmth _and_ lumens!






CL1H ceiling bounce

*Stuff:*

I'm sorry I don't have a runtime test for you but I did do some current measurments and it draws 2.2 amps on high, which is what Mike at PTS told me is exactly what it's supposed to be doing. They claim 1 hour regulated and based on my measurement, I would bet it'll do at least 1 hour on high, regulated. 

I wonder what this would look like with 2.8 running through it but I trust Wolf Eyes didn't push it all the way for a reason. Maybe heat management (doesn't get any warmer than the CL1H on high for 10 minutes) and perhaps longevity. I got the same 2.2 amp reading from fresh primaries and a lower reading from a Tenergy battery (1.9 amps). I would recommend sticking with the premium brands for this one and a protected cell is a must, according to Mike. Medium and low outputs: I included a couple of medium shots to help you get a feel for it. This thing is so powerful that medium fooled me a couple of times thinking it was on all the way! That's NOT to say they set medium too high, rather high is so HIGH that medium can't help it!! Low falls right between high and medium on my LOD with a nimh battery.

*Conclusions:*

I have to say I'm impressed. The tint is warm and beautiful, as you can especially see in the ceiling bounce. Until I did those shots, I was going to say it was your standard white with no tint but you can see just how warm it is (against the CL1H anyway) lighting up my living room! The size is nice but some might find the larger head takes a little getting used to. I wish it had a belt clip but then again, with that larger head, the logistics might not work out very well. The lanyard is nice but a brisk walk will start it swinging and it gets in the way quickly. A holster is a must but I don't have one made for this light. The output is incredible for it's size. This is a flood MONSTER for sure! With all of those lumens screaming out of the front, it can't help but throw 150 feet or more, but if you want real throw (several hundred feet), plan on bringing your DBS with you too (of course everyone here would have several lights nearby anyway!).


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## Wattnot (Jun 20, 2008)

reserved


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## LED_Thrift (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks for this review and beamshots. Looks like a GREAT light - I love floody bright lights. People like you make CPF great.


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## extremetito (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks for the review.
I am also impressed by how well the Dereelight performed in the beam shots.


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## 1 what (Jun 20, 2008)

Impressive....now I wonder if I can justify one on my bike?
Thanks for the great photos.


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## Glen C (Jun 20, 2008)

Wattnot, thank you for such a comprehensive review. Really good. 

You may find the difference in the finish is due to age of your Raider and a change by WE in finishing, I just checked my stock and the P7 finish is similar to all the other Wolf Eyes lights in stock.


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## KeeperSD (Jun 20, 2008)

Very nice review, thanks for the pics :thumbsup:

The light and output look impressive, be good to see one in the flesh. The proportions of the light certainly look good. 

I may have missed it, but is your Dereelight a smooth or OP reflector.


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## LED_Thrift (Jun 20, 2008)

Where can we get them?


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## cat (Jun 20, 2008)

extremetito said:


> Thanks for the review.
> I am also impressed by how well the Dereelight performed in the beam shots.



Yes, thank you. 

+1 re the CL1H. At 100' the WE Sniper P7 is lighting more of the building than the CL1H. At 150', the CL1H is doing about 99% as well as the P7. 
I think it shows that the point of the P7 is to get good flood with throw that's equal to a Q5/etc that has a reflector optimised for throw (like the Dereelights.)



> I may have missed it, but is your Dereelight a smooth or OP reflector.



+1, please tell.


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## cat (Jun 20, 2008)

LED_Thrift said:


> Where can we get them?



http://www.pts-flashlights.com

Find the other thread on the Wolf Eyes P7 and you'll see the link for how to set up an account as a cpf member.


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## nutz_about_lights (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks Wattnot for that great review. Shows tha P7 is not quite the thrower eh? I especially like the 2nd last picture (ceiling piece). Nice warm light!


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## eprom (Jun 20, 2008)

+1 to Dereelight CL1H for hotspot intensity at 50' and 100'

Dereelight seems warmer at outside beamshots, at indoor beamshots P7 is warmer ???


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## Wattnot (Jun 20, 2008)

The Dereelight is a kick-*** light, isn't it? I'm very happy with that single mode 1.2 amp pill. It had the 2SM when I bought it and it wasn't as bright. 

Maybe I should have chosen something else for comparison but oh well! This tempts me to do a 150 foot beamshot of the CL1H vs the Jet III IBS for _that_ review. I understand some people got the impression the Jetbeam won but I doubt it would "win" at that distance! 

I double checked and the OP reflector is in my CL1H. I cheated and used older pics for the 50 and 100 foot solo CL1H shots but since they were from my Jet III IBS review, I'm sure I would have used the OP in that contest as well. The SMO reflector shows some Cree ringy-ness and a touch of a yellow ring so I doubt it was the SMO.

As for the indoor/outdoor warmth discrepancy, the only explanation I can offer is the camera. I didn't notice any difference in tint until I saw that shot. They look the same on a white wall. It could be the availability of more light made the camera act differently or allowed for more reflection from the surrounding objects. That piano is a pretty deep, rich red color. I do plan on redoing all beamshots when I get a real camera (have a Canon EOS XT coming very soon).

There are a couple of shots I left out because of quality. My neighbor has some white, plastic chairs set around a fire pit. It's a 15 foot circle and at 100 feet away, the P7 Sniper lit the whole lot of them where the CL1H left the two end ones out. It was quite impressive in person but actually made the P7 look weak against the CL1H in the photo. In fact, if you are having any doubt about the output of this light, hold off on final judgement until I get better shots with a better camera because it is very impressive in person. I'm using an Olympus D490Z camera. I got it from Paul Revere's estate sale.


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## [email protected] (Jun 20, 2008)

Wattnot said:


> P7 at 150 feet (high only, no medium shot at this distance)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the review Wattnot! :twothumbs

The beam shots came out nice! :kewlpics:

I like the 150 foot shots, you can see the P7-Sniper is lighting the ground up to the house and a large area of the house with decent light.

For a 6 inch long flashlight, the P7-Sniper rocks! 

Cheers,
Mike


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## OceanView (Jun 20, 2008)

Thanks for the review! I like WE so the P7 Sniper is a real treat. It's a little longer than I was envisioning (thanks for that pic next to the Raider) but it's amazing that they're running the P7 on just one cell. The beamshots were very informative. Gives me a better sense of what people are referring to when they say it is "floody". I like it!


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## RichS (Jun 20, 2008)

Excellent review Wattnot - very helpful!! :thumbsup: This is what I was looking for. I love WE lights anyway, but this one is had the potential to be the high-power floody light I've been looking for, and going by your review I won't be dissappointed! 

The big bonus for me that I was not expecting was the nice, warm tint. I've become almost more of an incan guy for this very reason, as my eyes do better with a warmer tinted light. I figured that since my Novatac was pure white with no warmth to it, this would be the same. But, even in the first couple of beamshots, I was thinking "what?? the grass isn't blue..isn't this an LED?" I could clearly see that the P7 did a better job with color rendering on the grass compared with the CL1H. I'm not really sure why eprom thought the CL1H looked warmer outside - maybe because of the more dimmly lit grass?? But I was really shocked to see how much better it did inside! 

I've got one of these on the way....now I really can't wait..


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## KeeperSD (Jun 26, 2008)

Wattnot said:


> Maybe heat management (doesn't get any warmer than the CL1H on high for 10 minutes)


Have you had it running for longer than 10 minutes? Just wondering about the heat build up and if you think it could be left on for the entire battery life if needed? 

The output is certainly impressive, i am not 100% sure if i like the beam, obviously that has more to do with the P7 than WE though.


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## lukestephens777 (Jun 28, 2008)

Wow! Looks great!

I like the beamshots...

May have to have a chat with my mate GlenC!


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## Wattnot (Jun 28, 2008)

KeeperSD said:


> Have you had it running for longer than 10 minutes? Just wondering about the heat build up and if you think it could be left on for the entire battery life if needed?


 
I believe you could easily let this burn through a whole battery. I just did a tailstand with it on for 12 minutes. It was comfortably warm. I have one of those little gray infrared digital temp guns and it read 107F on the head and 102F on the body. I had a power failure last month and my CL1H seemed hotter than this (but I didn't measure that one).

Thanks again to everyone for all of the compliments!


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## Team Member (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks Wattnot for this excellent review :twothumbs

I may have to buy my first Wolf Eye after reading this..


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## Pokerstud (Jun 28, 2008)

Nice review and pictures:twothumbs


I understand that this will run on 2 x cr123 primaries as well.

Battery type : 1-LRB168A or 2 CR123A, Continuous Runtime : 1 hour with regulated output ; 2 hours with unregulated output


Have you tried it with this configuration yet?


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## easilyled (Jun 28, 2008)

Thanks for the very comprehensive review and pictures. :thumbsup:

The one thing that I'll say is, that from the pictures I don't think
the Sniper looked to have all that much more output than the CL1H.

I was expecting a more dramatic contrast like between my 
cheap MTE-P7-C-bin and my brightest single-die SSC-P4 or 
Cree-XRE-Q5-bin lights..

I am guessing that the overall output for the CL1H is about 220 torch lumens
because of the 1.2A drive level, so I am very much doubting that the
Sniper comes close to the max. claimed output of 580 lumens.

It would be great if you were able to do some sort of relative overall
output measurement between these 2 lights.


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## KeeperSD (Jun 28, 2008)

easilyled said:


> This also makes me wonder whether a C-bin flux P7 has been used for
> the Sniper, or whether it may have one of the lesser flux B-bins, which
> are nearly 200 lumens less bright on Seoul's specs at 2.8 amps.


Do we need to take this thread down this path as well? I am getting a feeling of deja vu. 


easilyled said:


> However we are talking about an enormous difference in output (and efficiency)
> between C-bin and B-bin P7 SSC leds (about 200 lumens difference).
> So I really think its not unrealistic to expect a C-bin P7 in these lights.
> (which are priced for a discerning market)


I do hope that you will be as persistant with SF when they release the Invictus.


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## easilyled (Jun 28, 2008)

KeeperSD said:


> Do we need to take this thread down this path as well? I am getting a feeling of deja vu.
> 
> I do hope that you will be as persistant with SF when they release the Invictus.




*"down"* what path? 

I have politely given some constructive criticism as the main advantage
of a P7 light is supposed to be its much higher output compared to
a single-die light.

From the pictures, it is not clear to me that this is the case.

I am asking the reviewer if its possible to give relative outputs
to confirm this one way or another.

If this is not permitted, please show me where this is in the CPF rules.

I am beginning to feel like any questioning of anything is not tolerated 
unless its what people who have already made their minds up want to hear.


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## KeeperSD (Jun 28, 2008)

I have no problem with constructive critism and the call for more comparisons, I am not overly impressed with the beam either, but then again i havent seen one in action in person. There appears to me to be plenty of output, looking at the 100 feet shots shows the flood that the P7 really has, obviously the Dereelight has quite an intense hotspot in comparison, but not anywhere near the spill, hence the reason i am not a big fan of the beam and why I haven't spent the money on one yet.

The path that i refer to is the one that the initial thread about the P7 Sniper in the LED forums took, you posted (among other things) your dislike for the not having the information available for the emitter in that thread and as i said IMO this review doesn't need to go down the same path.


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## easilyled (Jun 28, 2008)

KeeperSD said:


> I have no problem with constructive critism and the call for more comparisons, I am not overly impressed with the beam either, but then again i havent seen one in action in person. There appears to me to be plenty of output, looking at the 100 feet shots shows the flood that the P7 really has, obviously the Dereelight has quite an intense hotspot in comparison, but not anywhere near the spill, hence the reason i am not a big fan of the beam and why I haven't spent the money on one yet.
> 
> The path that i refer to is the one that the initial thread about the P7 Sniper in the LED forums took, you posted (among other things) your dislike for the not having the information available for the emitter in that thread and as i said IMO this review doesn't need to go down the same path.



Ok, I accept that the point I made about the bins is duplicated here and 
therefore maybe unnecessary. I will modify the above post accordingly.

Then can we agree on requesting the reviewer to do a relative output test between the Dereelight and the Sniper?


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## RichS (Jun 28, 2008)

Hopefully the reviewer won't mind me weighing in here. He's responsible for several hits to my wallet, so he should be ok with it...

I have both the P7 Sniper as well as a CL1H 3SD Dereelight module in a SureFire C2. My P7 is powered by an 18650, and the C2 is powered by a 17670.

Ok, let me start by saying that the Sniper P7 does indeed put out at least twice as much overall light as the CL1H. However, due to the floody nature of the Sniper P7, it isn't readily apparent when comparing in a throw scenario, since so much of the light is devoted to the very large, bright spill as well as a huge hotspot. 

To prove that the Sniper P7 lives up to it's 580 lumen claim, I did a ceiling bounce test with the camera set to manual shutter speed with a 1 second exposure. White balance was set to sunlight.

Here are the results of the ceiling bounce test:

*P7 Sniper vs. C2 w/ CL1H 3SD Q5 WC 1.2A Module*











*Control Shot*





*SF C2 w/ CL1H 3SD Q5 1.2A Module on High*





*Sniper P7 on High*


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## easilyled (Jun 28, 2008)

RichS, many thanks for going to the trouble of those photos on my behalf.

That is the kind of evidence that I was looking for. :thumbsup:


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## RichS (Jun 28, 2008)

easilyled said:


> RichS, many thanks for going to the trouble of those photos on my behalf.
> 
> That is the kind of evidence that I was looking for. :thumbsup:



No problem! After reading the debates I sort of wanted to prove it to myself. I am extremely happy with the performance of the Sniper P7, but this helped me to see in an undeniable way that I paid for a light with easily twice the output of the Q5 lights I have. 

I also don't mind the floody nature of this light. Pretty much everything else I have has crazy throw, but so many times the blinding hotspot gets in the way when using it in close/med range. I recently also got the M60F (thanks again to Wattnot), and it is another home run. These are quickly becoming my go-to lights for a quick indoor or outdoor lighting need.

My only dissappointments with the P7 Sniper are that it does not have the warm tint that Glenn's apparently does. Mine is pure white, devoid of any warmth, but also without any blue tint which is great. Also, it does have a shinier finish than the other Wolf-Eyes lights, but it's not a real big deal. The only weird thing is that the tailcap is a perfect matt finish, whereas the rest of the light is shiny. This is pretty easy to see in the picture above.

-Rich


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## easilyled (Jun 28, 2008)

RichS said:


> No problem! After reading the debates I sort of wanted to prove it to myself. I am extremely happy with the performance of the Sniper P7, but this helped me to see in an undeniable way that I paid for a light with easily twice the output of the Q5 lights I have.
> 
> I also don't mind the floody nature of this light. Pretty much everything else I have has crazy throw, but so many times the blinding hotspot gets in the way when using it in close/med range. I recently also got the M60F (thanks again to Wattnot), and it is another home run. These are quickly becoming my go-to lights for a quick indoor or outdoor lighting need.
> 
> ...



I agree with you about the beam. I have a cheap MTE P7, as mentioned
and I think there is definitely a place for this type of beam which is
a "wall of light" rather like the Surefire L4, but obviously much brighter.

In fact, its on the strength of my pleasant surprise with the MTE,
that I have been trying to establish whether the output of the WE is
equally impressive, before I take the plunge and buy one.

On the basis of your photos, I will probably do so. 

I know that the quality of the build of the WE is undoubtedly far superior and
that it also has regulation. When it comes to buying a quality light with new
technology, its not that easy to decide between the competition and
its nice to have as much information available, as possible.


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## Metatron (Jul 9, 2008)

great review fellas, ordered mine today, may get it tomorrow


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## JKL (Jul 23, 2008)

Graet review,nice pictures and very interesting beamshots.


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## Tessaiga (Jul 24, 2008)

one minor point or enquiry....

is the finishing really HAIII quality???


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## tophery (Aug 18, 2008)

Im not sure if i skimmed over this part but does the sniper p7 accept cr123a batteries?


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## Wattnot (Aug 18, 2008)

Yes it has the HAIII finish and it seems solidly up to par with the other Wolf Eyes products.

Yes it takes two CR123's or an 18650.


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## BUZ (Aug 28, 2008)

Is the P7 sniper much brighter then a P3D Q5?


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## 276 (Aug 28, 2008)

BUZ said:


> Is the P7 sniper much brighter then a P3D Q5?


 
YES


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## BUZ (Aug 28, 2008)

276 said:


> YES




Do you own both?


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## PhantomPhoton (Aug 28, 2008)

BUZ said:


> Is the P7 sniper much brighter then a P3D Q5?



Definitely, noticeably brighter.


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## 276 (Aug 28, 2008)

BUZ said:


> Do you own both?



YUP


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## BUZ (Aug 28, 2008)

276 said:


> YUP



Could you do a side by side beamshot comparison?


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## mickielli15 (Sep 22, 2008)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *276* 

 
_YUP_



BUZ said:


> Could you do a side by side beamshot comparison?



Yes PLEASE!!! I strongly agree, I am allmost desided, but still hesistating between P7 sniper and Thunder 3xR2. In whole world I am not able to find some comparsion beamshots of these lights. ... and, *WATTNOT, excellent review!!!* 

Thanks for *ANY* else beamshots of P7 sniper, when I will buy one of them, I will make beamshots also.


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## 276 (Sep 22, 2008)

Anybody know the program i need to post pics thats not a membership. I can really only do indoor shots where i live. Neighbors don't approve.


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## 276 (Sep 22, 2008)

trying to take some pics my room is too small for the P7 snipers flood to compare so i got to find another room later in my house, but from the comparisons the camera dims when pointed at the light so you would not really be seeing full power in the pick.


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## Patriot (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm also impressed with this light and the review that you posted. I also think it's great that they're using realistic figures for their output claims. Unlike the goofy DX P7's claiming 900 lumens, the WE is rated much closer to realism with 580. I think for me, the reflector is a bit larger and I'd prefer a straight tubed P7 light with a pocket clip, making it more EDC-able. That would certainly cause it to loose some throw but that's ok for with me. I was a long time carrier of the L4 and L2 and I also thought those produced very user friendly beams for most tasks. 

Thanks for the excellent review.


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## 276 (Sep 23, 2008)

My first pics ever posted on this site 







P7 Sniper on left P3 on right




P7 Sniper on left P7 M90 on right





P7 Sniper on left R2 thunder on right





P7 M90 on left R2 Thunder on right

Pic's are brighter than what the camera really took. the R2 was the brightest, then the M90 then the Sniper


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## The Sun (Sep 23, 2008)

what would be the major difference between the WE P7-Sniper, and the WE P7-Eagle 2 (P7-E2)? is one more throwy than the other, or are they the same just different body styles? thanks...

it looks like the P7-E2 has a deeper reflector???


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## mickielli15 (Sep 24, 2008)

The Sun said:


> what would be the major difference between the WE P7-Sniper, and the WE P7-Eagle 2 (P7-E2)? is one more throwy than the other, or are they the same just different body styles? thanks...
> 
> it looks like the P7-E2 has a deeper reflector???



I wrote to Wolf-Eyes and there was very kind Tina, she wrotes me that difference between Sniper and Eagle is only in design. But, as you said, for me it seems to be longer reflector in E2-Eagle also. So I am a little desorientated  I think, M90 "Rattlesnake" will more throw (beamshot of 276):



P7 Sniper on left P7 M90 on right, 


but difference between Sniper and Eagle I expect small.



276 said:


> Pic's are brighter than what the camera really took. the R2 was the brightest, then the M90 then the Sniper



*276, thanks for beamshots!!!* Dont you want to take some beamshots of these lights *outside*? 
If neighbors don't approve, you can try some deep place out of civilization.:lolsign: 
_*I will be thankful like this group of flashaholics:*_ :bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow::bow: :thumbsup:


ciao :wave:


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## 276 (Sep 25, 2008)

Sorry only indoor!! I tried a few outdoor but they came out horrible this is the only good one that came out of the P7 M90


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## Punchinello (Sep 25, 2008)

Is there any difference in output or runtime between CR123A and 18650 batteries?


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## 276 (Sep 26, 2008)

i haven't noticed a difference, I primarily use the 16850 batteries.


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## mickielli15 (Sep 26, 2008)

276 said:


> Sorry only indoor!! I tried a few outdoor but they came out horrible this is the only good one that came out of the P7 M90


 Okay, thanks anyway. Has M90 noticable more throw than SNIPER P7 on longer distances? And is M90 in throw closer to thunder R2 or Sniper P7? Answers on these questions will help me a lot to deside between these flashlights, I will be grateful. Say any feelings, the more, the better :wave:Thanks a lot.


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## 276 (Sep 26, 2008)

The M90 has more throw than the Sniper no doubt. R2 thunder is more the thrower & the M90 will throw but spread out into a flood at a distance. If you want flood get the P7 Sniper, if you want throw get the R2 thunder , or if you want in between get the M90. Again sorry about only indoor shots.


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## mickielli15 (Oct 2, 2008)

276 - thanks very much for info.

And want to ask - *have anyone Rattlesnake P7 and Sniper P7 both?* If yes, I would be very grateful to see outdoors beamshots of these two flashlights *comparsion on at least 50 feet* to see how much tighter hotspot have Rattlesnake (how wider have Sniper). I am not able to find any outdoors comparsion between these flashlights. Thanks for that. I bought them both, but I have to wait more than 14 days, when I will be able to pick them up. After that I will do it for you guys, there will be a lot of beamshots between P7-SNIPER, P7 RATTLESNAKE and my L2DQ5 FENIX. But this will be possible after 20th october. And untill that time I am in tense, because too looking forward 
my mood is now like this: :thumbsup: :duh2: rescue me!!!


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## Lithp (Oct 2, 2008)

Is this flashlight brighter than the Fenix TK10? If so is it noticeably brighter or only slightly?


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## Wattnot (Oct 3, 2008)

Punchinello said:


> Is there any difference in output or runtime between CR123A and 18650 batteries?


 
HEY . . . what's all this activity in my old thread! :twothumbs

I noticed no difference in output with the 18650 or the CR123's. 

This P7, as with most, if not all, is more a flooder than anything else. It trounced anything I had up close, but when you got out past 100 or 150 feet, the light was pretty well dispersed but still quite usable. It really doesn't directly compare to a P3D. I don't have a P3D but I do have a P2D and I would never try to compare these to each other, they're that different. 

From my perspective, the P7 is a lot like a good multi LED head . . . what you get with that is F L O O D. It's 4 mini led's tucked in tight next to each other. To make a P7 throw really well, it will probably take projection (optics) as well as a deep reflector. Also, because of voltage/current/heatsink issues, the P7 presents a challenge to engineers. A challenge that was well met, in the P7 Sniper's case, by Wolf Eyes.

Where the P7 Sniper _shines_ (no pun intended), IMO, is in it's size (and size/output ratio). It's a great general purpose light that is just a smidgin outside what could be considered "normal" for EDC but it lights up a large area extremely well. The multiple output and well hidden strobe/sos/beacon features make this light an awesome choice if you can only have one. I carry it in the car so I can be ready for anything because that's the kind of light this is!!


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## mickielli15 (Oct 3, 2008)

*Oh welcome back Wattnot in your thread!* 

I am very happy to see you here and thanks for info. Do not know why, but mabe because everybody saying SNIPER P7 is monster-flood, I desided for P7 ratttlesnake, because few people (including 276) said that Rattlesnake has more throw, but rest of features of SNIPER P7 has also I think. But - why Rattlesnake evidently throw more? Why it has evident hot-spot on middle-distance, where SNIPER has allmost only floooood without any center? I think because of deeper and larger head/reflector. So I desided to buy Rattlesnake, because (how 276 also wrote) it is something between Sniper and Thunder, maybe closer to SNIPER, but noticable visible hotspot. *I CAN NOT COMPARE THESE TWO AND I AM ALLMOST CRAZY THAT I HAD TO DESIDE AND BUY WITHOUT COMPARSION ON MIDDLE AND LONGER DISTANCE.* In whole world does not exist comparsion between M90 P7 Rattlesnake and P7 Sniper on at least 50-100 feet. I will do some beamshots on the end of october, because I ordered both (Rattlesnake for me and Sniper for my friend).

*And, Wattnot, have you had some other P7 flashlight? For example some DX-one (not Elektrolumens) or Sniper similar-look? And if yes, is the result like with SNIPER (now I mean hotspot-flood-output only...) ? *

Btw, I bought them on LIOTEC (hallo JohnB), and I had GREAT service from LIOTEC. Can only recomend. They takes great care of customers.

Have a nice day, I love Sniper, I love Rattlesnake, but, in fact, I do not actually know what I am loving... I will, when I will receive my babies to my postbox.

... and, sorry for my grammar, I learn english only by myself


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## Wattnot (Oct 3, 2008)

Hi mickielli15 . . . your English is fine, especially for self taught, don't worry!

I can't help you too much with the P7 Rattlesnake except to say this: It has a larger reflector and a higher lumen rating so, because they both come from Wolf Eyes, it HAS to out-throw the Sniper version, and probably out-flood it too.

I don't own any other P7's but I've read about them here and here is where I learned about the engineering challenges and flood/throw characteristics. If you look at my beamshots you will see that up to 100 feet, there still is a discernable hotspot, but it seamlessly fades into the corona. Beyond 100 feet you get only flood. I would bet the Rattlesnake will look at 200 feet like the Sniper looks at 100 but again, only a guess.

I've heard good things about Liotec myself but pts is my goto guy for Wolf Eyes and that is who I recommend!

If you've been here for any length of time, I'm sure you've heard this before: BUY BOTH!! :devil:


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## mickielli15 (Oct 3, 2008)

What a rapid answer!!! Thanks! Yes - I allmost bought both :laughing:, in fact I bought Sniper to my friend an Rattlesnake to me. He wanted only Sniper, because his max. length he wants is 15cm, and I think rating length/lumen is Sniper one of the best. I think he will be happy with Sniper. 

Thank you very, very much and if you will see anywhere some comparsion between P7's Sniper and Rattlesnake, let me know please. 

Have a great day!:wave:


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## Art Vandelay (Oct 15, 2008)

Very nice. How are these holding up well as time goes on?


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## RichS (Oct 16, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> Very nice. How are these holding up well as time goes on?


Great! I took mine out with me on a nice long night bike ride last night - about 1 hour 45 minutes. I used this beast on high the entire time, and only noticed it starting to dim slightly after a little over an hour. Even dim it was still way more than I needed, and got me home on the same 18650 battery. 

After I got home and took the light in the house, I turned it on to see how run-down it actually was. I shined it at the ceiling and it looked fully charged!

This is a rugged, well built, insanely bright light. It has the perfect beam pattern for this purpose, and it is nice and compact for mounting on my handlebars.


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## mickielli15 (Oct 18, 2008)

I made some beamshots (and I will make more in some time) of P7's W-E and L2DQ5 https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2666251&postcount=20


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## A96Honda (Oct 24, 2008)

You know, I was all set on one of the getting one of the 9DX Raiders, until I saw this review....

I wanted something bright, but had a good compromise in flood and throw. Used for camping or whenever I lose power. I wanted it to be efficient.

I was going to get the C2 version from PTS. 280 lumens @ 3hrs using 3-CR123.


I thought I found my next light, but now I have doubts.

I mean, 580 lumens for 1 hr with 2- CR123's is very impressive. By any chance, do you have a 9DX Raider with the Cree C2 from PTS also? A side by side would be fantastic.


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## Gary123 (Oct 24, 2008)

Anyone have any idea how this light compares with Wayne's (Elektrolumens) EDC P7 size wise? The both output about the same, with possibly similar beams. The Sniper has different output levels, is about $25 more, and might be a little bigger. I'm so curious how they compare.

And can anyone tell me the weight of the P7 Sniper and the length and head width?


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## [email protected] (Oct 24, 2008)

Hi Gary,
Here’s some info on the Sniper

Specs

Model: Wolf Eyes 6A P7-Sniper 
Housing Material: Durable Aircraft-Grade Aluminum 
Output Power: 580 Lumen max 
Continuous Runtime: 1 hour with regulated output ; 2 hours with unregulated output 
Lamp assembly: SSC P7 Quad LED 
Reflector: Light OP 
Digital special features: 3 – Brightness levels 100%, 30% and 2% with hidden Emergency mode; Strobe, SOS and Beacon 
Working Voltage Range: 3.7-6V 
Battery type: 1-LRB168A or 2 CR123A 
Operation: Tactical Button Switch 
Body diameter: 1 inch 
Bezel diameter: 47mm 
Length: 150mm 
Weight: 185g without battery 
Finish: Premium Type III hard-anodized 
Water Resistant: Yes 
Beam Characteristics: Flood with moderate throw


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## Kiessling (Oct 24, 2008)

I just followed my curiosity and got one of those.

Great review !! :thumbsup:

The beam pattern is quite similar to SF L4, but th eoutput is not. The Sniper P7 destroys the L4, so I think while it might not live up to 580lm it still has a luminous flux that is vastly superior to what we know in our old LuxV lights. Sor far, so good.

Now ... as I am a primary guy I use it with CR123 cells. SF123. 
The thing draws about 2,4A on 2x123, which seems awefully high to me. Then ... runtime really sucks on high, but the batteries get so warm that I can't tough them for more than a second or so. WHich worries me ... could it be that 2x123 is pushing the limits a bit far? I don't wanna have the batts explode on me. :green:

bernie


P.S.: just to be a PITA ... the interface sucks :nana:


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## Wattnot (Oct 24, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Great review !! :thumbsup:
> 
> Now ... as I am a primary guy I use it with CR123 cells. SF123.
> The thing draws about 2,4A on 2x123, which seems awefully high to me. Then ... runtime really sucks on high, but the batteries get so warm that I can't tough them for more than a second or so. WHich worries me ... could it be that 2x123 is pushing the limits a bit far? I don't wanna have the batts explode on me. :green:


 
Thanks for the compliment!

I don't belive the draw on each cell is any harder than the M6 with the HOLA. Granted, the SF M6 puts 2 sets of cells in parallel but the current draw is about double. 

This would be a really good time to get into rechargeables!! The output is the same on the 18650 (as far as I can tell) and the runtime is better. 

This light works on primaries but it's really in it's element with the 18650!! 

I just measured and weighed it . . . 6 ounces w/o battery and the head diameter is 1 + 7/8 inches.


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## Kiessling (Oct 24, 2008)

Yes, just measured the M6 HOLA at about 5.5A oo:
So I might be OK after all. But ... this is a buck converter, right? The Vin of he P7 is about 3V, right? Is this converter so inefficient or why is the draw so high at 6V?

Rechargeables ... no. Tried it, and it isn't for me. 

bernie


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## jirik_cz (Oct 24, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> The Vin of he P7 is about 3V, right? Is this converter so inefficient or why is the draw so high at 6V?



The Vin of P7 will be around 3.25-3.5V.
CR123 voltage will drop dramatically under such a high current drain. They will have only around 2-2.2V each. So the driver is not so inefficient. 

Just go and get rechargeables. You will not regret it


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## Gary123 (Oct 24, 2008)

Comparison of Wayne's EDC P7 and Sniper

 ...........................EDC.............. Sniper
Body length ...........5.3” ...............6”
Head Diameter........1.5”................1 7/8”
Weight w/o batt .....5.6 oz............ 6.5 oz


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## Kiessling (Oct 25, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> The Vin of P7 will be around 3.25-3.5V.
> CR123 voltage will drop dramatically under such a high current drain. They will have only around 2-2.2V each. So the driver is not so inefficient.
> 
> Just go and get rechargeables. You will not regret it




I got them and regretted it :nana:
But I don't wanna turn this thread into a "Bernie hates rechargeables"-thread. I was just concerned about the draw and the HOT batteries afterwards. I am still concerend, but somewhat less.

bernie


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## A96Honda (Oct 25, 2008)

So, does this light suck with CR123s?:thinking:


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## Alan B (Nov 26, 2008)

A96Honda said:


> So, does this light suck with CR123s?:thinking:



This light is probably chopping the current to the LED to regulate. If so a standard meter may not read the current correctly. The fact the batteries got hot is concerning...

-- Alan


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