# MANY BEAMSHOTS of MC-E, R2, Q5, Q3 5A: JETBeam, Olight, Dereelight, Tiablo, Raidfire



## Megatorch (Feb 5, 2009)

We took different distances: 40, 100 and 150 meters.
All photos were made with the same white balance and exposition.
OP - orange peel reflector, SMO - smooth reflector.
For JETBeams was removed "Pro IBS" in model names on photos because that is shorter.

The list of competitors:

*JETBeam M1X Searchlight MC-E, OP* (2xCytac 18650 Li-Ion 2200mAh)
*JETBeam Raptor Q5, SMO* (2xCytac R123 Li-Ion 750mAh)
*JETBeam JET-III Military Pro IBS Q5 WC, SMO* (2xCytac R123 Li-Ion 750mAh)
*JETBeam JET-III Military Pro IBS Q3 5A, SMO* (2xCytac R123 Li-Ion 750mAh)
*JETBeam JET-I v.2 Pro IBS, OP* (1xAW 14500 Li-Ion 750mAh)
*JETBeam JET-I v.2 Pro IBS Q3 5A, OP* (1xAW 14500 Li-Ion 750mAh)
*Olight M20 Warrior Premium R2 WH, SMO* (2xAW R123 Li-Ion 750mAh)
*Raidfire Spear, SMO* (1xAW 18650 Li-Ion 2200mAh)
*Tiablo ACE MC-E, OP* (2xCytac 18650 Li-Ion 2200mAh)
*Dereelight DBS V3 3SM MC-E, OP* (2xAW R123 Li-Ion 750mAh)





See and enjoy! You can in easy way compare the color of light, the sizes of spot, beam distances etc.
There you can find full archive with all photos (5.7Mb).


*1. 40 meters. *



 

 



 

 



 

 



 

 



 


*2. 100 meters. *



 

 



 

 



 

 



 

 



 

 


*3. 150 meters. *


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## shahzh (Feb 5, 2009)

Looks like the Tiablo ACE has more spill then Jetbeam M1X at 40 meters and 100 meters.


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## Megatorch (Feb 5, 2009)

shahzh said:


> Looks like the Tiablo ACE has more spill then Jetbeam M1X at 40 meters and 100 meters.



M1X is better thrower in real life. It can be seen on 100m & 150m.
ACE has 2 times bigger diameter of spot and less throwing as result. 

*You should see small fog which should correct the vision: the air is illuminated by beam.*


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 5, 2009)

Great post!

Can you put a picture showing the flashlights side by side? I've never seen the JETbeam Raptor...


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## Search (Feb 5, 2009)

..I thought thr DBS MC-E was supposed to be.. I donno.. 5 times as bright as that?


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## Ryanrpm (Feb 5, 2009)

Where did you get the Raptor?? Is this the first look we have of it? 

Seems to be brighter and throws better than the Spear. :thumbsup: Nice!

Can you post some shots of just the light itself?


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## shahzh (Feb 5, 2009)

Megatorch said:


> M1X is better thrower in real life. It can be seen on 100m & 150m.
> ACE has 2 times bigger diameter of spot and less throwing as result.
> 
> *You should see small fog which should correct the vision: the air is illuminated by beam.*



Looks like I've got to get the M1X then. Nice pics by the way.


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## TONY M (Feb 5, 2009)

Nice pics!


Search said:


> ..I thought thr DBS MC-E was supposed to be.. I donno.. 5 times as bright as that?


Maybe there was dirt on the lens.


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## Megatorch (Feb 5, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> Where did you get the Raptor?? Is this the first look we have of it?
> 
> Seems to be brighter and throws better than the Spear. :thumbsup: Nice!
> 
> Can you post some shots of just the light itself?



Official release of JETBeam Raptor will be in February. It will use Cree R2.

BTW, did you see diffusers and red filters for Olight M20 Warrior?


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## Megatorch (Feb 5, 2009)

TONY M said:


> Nice pics!
> Maybe there was dirt on the lens.



It was clear. DBS V2 R2 is real thrower. 
MC-E version has wide beam.


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## phantom23 (Feb 5, 2009)

Megatorch said:


> Official release of JETBeam Raptor will be in February. It will use Cree R2.



Some unofficial picture?:naughty:


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 5, 2009)

phantom23 said:


> Some unofficial picture?:naughty:


+1!

Yes, please.


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## Megatorch (Feb 5, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> +1!
> 
> Yes, please.



No, please. 
The final version will have some modifications. That will be better when we see the best photos directly from producer.

BTW, you got the beamshots BEFORE release. I think it's not bad.


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## EngrPaul (Feb 5, 2009)

Fantastic post! :wave:


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## Christoph (Feb 5, 2009)

Thank you Megatorch I have been hoping for a comparison like this.:thumbsup: Raptor! Thanks I guess I should save up some cash.:huh:
C


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## Search (Feb 5, 2009)

Seriously though.. people have been saying how bright the DBS MC-E is..

Does the ACE MC-E just have that much of a better reflector? Or does it just have that many more lumens?

I was going to buy a DBS MC-E because someone said it could flood about 100 yards with a WALL OF LIGHT.

I think that person might have been a tad.. way bit wrong.


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## Megatorch (Feb 5, 2009)

Christoph said:


> Thank you Megatorch I have been hoping for a comparison like this.:thumbsup: Raptor!



I quite agree, thanks.


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## jzelek (Feb 5, 2009)

Great set of photos Megatorch!:twothumbs

Are you sure the Dereelight DBS MC-E had fresh batterys in it!
I was under the impression it was a better thrower than that.


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## 1996alnl (Feb 5, 2009)

Really impressed with the throw on that raptor.

Thanks for doing this.Excellent comparison.


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Feb 6, 2009)

Search said:


> ..I thought thr DBS MC-E was supposed to be.. I donno.. 5 times as bright as that?


The Tiablo MC-E and Jetbeam MC-E were being driven by 2x18650 while the DBS MC-E was being driven by 2xrcr123's.I don't know if that is why it looks so dim.



BTW-thanks for such great pics!!!


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## Pöbel (Feb 6, 2009)

Both Tiablo ACE and Jet M1X have much larger reflectors. That's what is important when trying to focus multi emitter LEDs to achieve lots of throw. The DBS has a very deep reflector, but it's not that large. That is why the DBS is fairly floody with MCE pill.


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## easilyled (Feb 6, 2009)

Is it fair to say that the Tiablo A10 MCE seems to put out more overall light than the JetBeam M1X?

That is the impression I have from the beamshots.


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## Ryanrpm (Feb 6, 2009)

easilyled said:


> Is it fair to say that the Tiablo A10 MCE seems to put out more overall light than the JetBeam M1X?
> 
> That is the impression I have from the beamshots.




From the beamshots, I would have to agree also. On the other hand, I would like to say that the M1X might have a tighter spot. Hard to tell though, they almost look to have the same brightness in the hotspot, but with the ACE have a wider spill.

Maybe Megatorch can give us his thoughts after he has compared the two in real life.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 6, 2009)

Well, he mentioned this:


> "M1X is better thrower in real life. It can be seen on 100m & 150m.
> ACE has 2 times bigger diameter of spot and less throwing as result.
> "


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## tx101 (Feb 6, 2009)

From what I can see especially in the 100 meter shots
the A10 does seem to have a brighter hotspot.

But I would still buy the M1X. Tiablos recent release of the A10
was not in my opinion very favourable.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 6, 2009)

tx101 said:


> From what I can see especially in the 100 meter shots
> the A10 does seem to have a brighter hotspot.
> 
> But I would still buy the M1X. Tiablos recent release of the A10
> was not in my opinion very favourable.


What's wrong with the A10?


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## Noobiwan (Feb 6, 2009)

Great post. Thanks Megatorch!


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## erlon (Feb 6, 2009)

It´s Just me or the ACE is better than the MX1 in all pictures ?


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## tx101 (Feb 6, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> What's wrong with the A10?



You need to read the Tiablos sales thread in the Dealers/Manufacturers
section in the Marketplace


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## Mr.Urahara reloaded (Feb 6, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> What's wrong with the A10?



When you read the ACE-Thread in the MarketPlace you will notice that Tiablos engineers did a more than worse job on making a driver for the A10.
For me, the ACE is in its current version a real no go.
It can be the brightest of all but the driver is real crap. 
When they produce an update that holds their initial promises i might consider it but i don't want to be their beta-tester. Just my 2 Cents...



Mfg Mr.Urahara


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 6, 2009)

Mr.Urahara reloaded said:


> When you read the ACE-Thread in the MarketPlace you will notice that Tiablos engineers did a more than worse job on making a driver for the A10.
> For me, the ACE is in its current version a real no go.
> It can be the brightest of all but the driver is real crap.
> When they produce an update that holds their initial promises i might consider it but i don't want to be their beta-tester. Just my 2 Cents...
> ...


Ok, point taken. But what about the Tiablo A10 Cree XR-E R2 version? It seems to be perfectly fine according to Light Reviews.

http://www.light-reviews.com/tiablo_a10/


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## tx101 (Feb 6, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Ok, point taken. But what about the Tiablo A10 Cree XR-E R2 version? It seems to be perfectly fine according to Light Reviews.
> 
> http://www.light-reviews.com/tiablo_a10/




Read Tiablos Sales Thread and draw your own conclusions


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## jblackwood (Feb 6, 2009)

ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> The Tiablo MC-E and Jetbeam MC-E were being driven by 2x18650 while the DBS MC-E was being driven by 2xrcr123's.I don't know if that is why it looks so dim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah. I got AW's newest RCR's solely to EDC my DBS with an MC-E pill. After 12 minutes with the RCR123's (yes I actually tested it before taking it out with me), it was too hot (for me) to hold, but I have particularly sensitive musician's hands so others' experiences may vary. I measured the run time and it was a little over 32 minutes after three trials. I became pretty used to the light output that night and put the extension tube back on and loaded two fresh 18650's. The output was much higher, at least in my grand room (25 ft. x 50 ft.). If I had another MC-E pill I could do a side-by-side comparison, since I have an extra DBS body and reflector. 

Much props to the OP for his work. Very clearly laid out and I don't mean to rain on his parade at all, just think the results are a bit skewed, and not just because I don't own ANY of the other lights. I've been looking at some of these, in fact!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 6, 2009)

tx101 said:


> Read Tiablos Sales Thread and draw your own conclusions


21 fricking pages and counting... I have work to do in order to feed my flashlights. Is there a shorter version of this whole drama?


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## Megatorch (Feb 6, 2009)

jblackwood said:


> I got AW's newest RCR's... ...I became pretty used to the light output that night and put the extension tube back on and loaded two fresh 18650's. The output was much higher, at least in my grand room (25 ft. x 50 ft.). If I had another MC-E pill I could do a side-by-side comparison, since I have an extra DBS body and reflector.



You would like very much to see DBS V3 MC-E like real thrower. Me too. But real situation is another thing.

1. There is no big difference between 2xR123 or 2x18650 for maximal output. The same 2 x 3.7Volts. R123s will be hot because of 2.4A current. The runtime for 18650s will be longer but the output will not be higher.

2. You can make luxmeter measurements for each power supply. I have got the same data. DBS on 18650 and R123 give the same output.

3. You can make beamshots for each power supply. But 25ft-50ft are distances for EDC flashlights - not throwers.


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## Megatorch (Feb 6, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> 21 fricking pages and counting... I have work to do in order to feed my flashlights. Is there a shorter version of this whole drama?



I can point on some things about Tiablo ACE & A10. They are not dramatical for some people but strange (btw, the producer writes a description on official site and changes it frequently):

a) Work current is about 2.4A, without cap - about 3A: R123 can explode and CR123A will be very hot.

b) ~40000lux of A10 output: Tiablo agreed that real output is about 20000-22000 like DBS V2. MrGman has another ideas. It's not simple situation. 

c) Tiablo gives the runtime for 3000mAh Li-Ion without PCB - 3.5 hours. Why? Light-reviews.com have got about 2 hours for AW 2200mAh. 2/2200x3000=2.7 hours (not 3.5h). Usually the drivers of another competitors have about 3-4 hours to 50% with 18650 2200mAh but not 2 hours like A10.


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## I came to the light... (Feb 6, 2009)

Thanks for another round of excellent beamshots!
The M20, Raptor, and ACE really excel. I was disappointed by the DBS MC-E though. 
Can you at least tell us the length of the raptor?


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## evenchaos (Feb 7, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> 21 fricking pages and counting... I have work to do in order to feed my flashlights. Is there a shorter version of this whole drama?



1. Presale description was different than delivered product (especially UI)
2. A10 was supposed to run from 2.7 to 8.5 V with a high efficiency step-up/step-down regulator. WRONG. Almost makes me want to think it has a linear regulator in there. You need 2xprimary CR123's to get the real output from the light and without the multimode switch. Otherwise, output drops dramatically. Also, it does NOT work up to 8.5V, I nearly fried my led - went blue the instant I powered it on with 2x18650's (peak open circuit voltage of 8.4V which should be acceptable) - possibly a faulty emitter module, will need to rant in the salethread to see if that is the case..
3. ACE upgrade wasn't as cost-effective as implied in presale.
4. ACE is no-longer multi-mode :scowl: and has a very high cutoff voltage (3.7V) so very limited runtime on single cell.


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## easilyled (Feb 7, 2009)

I came to the light... said:


> ....
> Can you at least tell us the length of the raptor?



Quoted from 1st post in thread:-
"JETBeam Raptor Q5, SMO (2xCytac R123 Li-Ion 750mAh)"

That should provide quite a good clue.


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## Megatorch (Feb 7, 2009)

easilyled said:


> Quoted from 1st post in thread:-
> "JETBeam Raptor Q5, SMO (2xCytac R123 Li-Ion 750mAh)"
> 
> That should provide quite a good clue.



Yes, good thinking.


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## phantom23 (Feb 7, 2009)

And assuming wide beam near reflector (wider than in Spear) it has quite big head.


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## MrGman (Feb 7, 2009)

evenchaos said:


> 1. Presale description was different than delivered product (especially UI)
> 2. A10 was supposed to run from 2.7 to 8.5 V with a high efficiency step-up/step-down regulator. WRONG. Almost makes me want to think it has a linear regulator in there. You need 2xprimary CR123's to get the real output from the light and without the multimode switch. Otherwise, output drops dramatically. Also, it does NOT work up to 8.5V, I nearly fried my led - went blue the instant I powered it on with 2x18650's (peak open circuit voltage of 8.4V which should be acceptable) - possibly a faulty emitter module, will need to rant in the salethread to see if that is the case..
> 3. ACE upgrade wasn't as cost-effective as implied in presale.
> 4. ACE is no-longer multi-mode :scowl: and has a very high cutoff voltage (3.7V) so very limited runtime on single cell.


 

*My A10 came with a special note on separate piece of paper, that specifically said to not run it on 2 rechargeable batteries, use 1 X18650 or 2 primaries only. Even though the light says the voltage range you mentioned, so I have not gone above 2 primaries because of that warning. I am glad you posted your post and I will use this as a warning for others because I know at least 1 other person asked me the question. I would say its true "useful" regulated range is 3.7 to 7V not 8.5V for the Tiablo A10.*

On a separate not I have gotten 2 18650 batteries in series to charge up to 9V open circuit and hold very close to that under a 1.6 amp load.


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## I came to the light... (Feb 7, 2009)

easilyled said:


> Quoted from 1st post in thread:-
> "JETBeam Raptor Q5, SMO (2xCytac R123 Li-Ion 750mAh)"
> 
> That should provide quite a good clue.



Well, yes, if I don't know anything else about it. But as a matter of fact I did see that, and I was wondering if it was closer to 10 or 15 cm long, or 2 to 5 cm wide. For me, that difference is the difference between buying it and a complete lack of interest. And now you've given Megatorch something else to hide behind


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## easilyled (Feb 7, 2009)

I came to the light... said:


> Well, yes, if I don't know anything else about it. But as a matter of fact I did see that, and I was wondering if it was closer to 10 or 15 cm long, or 2 to 5 cm wide. For me, that difference is the difference between buying it and a complete lack of interest. And now you've given Megatorch something else to hide behind



I don't think Mega was going to spill the beans. 

I'm sure we'll find out before too long. I'm also interested in the Raptor because the beam shots are impressive. :thumbsup:


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## phantom23 (Feb 7, 2009)

I came to the light... said:


> Well, yes, if I don't know anything else about it. But as a matter of fact I did see that, and I was wondering if it was closer to 10 or 15 cm long, or 2 to 5 cm wide.



Closer to 15 & 5cm. How do I know? :


phantom23 said:


> And assuming wide beam near reflector (wider than in Spear) it has quite big head.





easilyled said:


> I'm sure we'll find out before too long.


Release date is not a secret, it's just not clear, probably after 02-12.


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## WadeF (Feb 7, 2009)

Looking at light-reviews results, 2xCR123's give the best regulation. The 18650 gives a bit more output initially (not sure why), but steadily drops from the moment you turn it on. The CR123's go for close to an hour with flat regulation. 

More than likely the A10 on an 18650 will fall behind the DBS at some point. I don't know where that is. 15 minutes? 30 minutes? I'm going to take a current reading from the A10 I have to see what it's pulling.

Update, I think I see what is going on with the A10. The A10 probalby has a buck circuit, probably needs over 4.2v to be regulated, then it switches to direct drive. So a fresh off the charger 18650 will simply be in direct drive, which will result in it being brighter than 2xCR123's as found by myself and Mev at light-reviews, but it will constantly drop in output over time. With 2xC123's it will be in regulation, until the voltage drops, then it switches to direct drive. You can see this in Mev's run time charts, about 50 minutes on CR123's the output jumps up to where it is with a fresh 18650, then drops quick once in direct drive. 

So on a 18650 the A10 is not regulated, but it's regulated for awhile on CR123's before switching to direct drive. Does this sound right?


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## I came to the light... (Feb 7, 2009)

phantom23 said:


> Closer to 15 & 5cm. How do I know? :
> 
> 
> 
> Release date is not a secret, it's just not clear, probably after 02-12.



That is a good point. But in the beamshots it appears to have the same diameter. Also, that does not say anything about length.


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## I came to the light... (Feb 7, 2009)

easilyled said:


> I don't think Mega was going to spill the beans.


true... 


easilyled said:


> I'm sure we'll find out before too long. I'm also interested in the Raptor because the beam shots are impressive. :thumbsup:


But so much more impressive if the light turns out to be SMALL! Ghaa, I can't stand the wait...


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## evenchaos (Feb 7, 2009)

WadeF said:


> Update, I think I see what is going on with the A10. The A10 probalby has a buck circuit, probably needs over 4.2v to be regulated, then it switches to direct drive. So a fresh off the charger 18650 will simply be in direct drive, which will result in it being brighter than 2xCR123's as found by myself and Mev at light-reviews, but it will constantly drop in output over time. With 2xC123's it will be in regulation, until the voltage drops, then it switches to direct drive. You can see this in Mev's run time charts, about 50 minutes on CR123's the output jumps up to where it is with a fresh 18650, then drops quick once in direct drive.
> 
> So on a 18650 the A10 is not regulated, but it's regulated for awhile on CR123's before switching to direct drive. Does this sound right?



That still doesn't explain why the light draws more current the higher the voltage. It should be the exact opposite for a buck regulator. 

But yes, you are right, it does drop out from whatever regulation it has when it's driven on a single cell. 

BTW, Tiablo still has this on their product page:


> Step up and down constant current driver, with high efficiency dual mode DC-DC regulator (PWM / PFM) and circuit to protect Li-ion battery from over-discharging. Working voltage is 2.75V to 8.5V, under the circuit will flicker to remind users to replace battery.


I still don't understand how companies can continue to lie and/or post such misleading/false specifications. You constantly hear of lawsuits in the states over false advertising, etc but in this case the folks there don't seem to be concerned with the fact that they are deceiving their customers and giving themselves a bad name.


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## naked2 (Feb 8, 2009)

I use my A10 with 2x 18350 @ 8.4V (to start) with no problems (using mechanical switch); about 55 mins. in regulation.


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## easilyled (Feb 8, 2009)

naked2 said:


> I use my A10 with 2x 18350 @ 8.4V (to start) with no problems (using mechanical switch); about 55 mins. in regulation.



Yes, but this can be achieved with a well-regulated* one-cell 18650* P7/MCE light (eg. WE Sniper) 

So something clearly isn't right.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 8, 2009)

WadeF said:


> Looking at light-reviews results, 2xCR123's give the best regulation. The 18650 gives a bit more output initially (not sure why), but steadily drops from the moment you turn it on. The CR123's go for close to an hour with flat regulation.
> 
> More than likely the A10 on an 18650 will fall behind the DBS at some point. I don't know where that is. 15 minutes? 30 minutes? I'm going to take a current reading from the A10 I have to see what it's pulling.
> 
> ...


Right on!


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## phantom23 (Feb 8, 2009)

easilyled said:


> Yes, but this can be achieved with a well-regulated* one-cell 18650* P7/MCE light (eg. WE Sniper)
> 
> So something clearly isn't right.



'naked2' uses 18340 which are slightly wider RCR123 and I don't think they're more than 800mAh. Assuming that and high brightness 55 mins is a good result.


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## easilyled (Feb 8, 2009)

phantom23 said:


> 'naked2' uses 18340 which are slightly wider RCR123 and I don't think they're more than 800mAh. Assuming that and high brightness 55 mins is a good result.



Yes, sorry, I thought he said 2 18650. 
Now having looked again, he actually said 2 18350.
I guess I didn't read it properly.


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## naked2 (Feb 8, 2009)

As of yet, 18350s are still only available unprotected, but they're fast becoming my favorite cell size for lights that accpet both 18650 and 2x RCR123A. I hope more people start buying/using them, because if the demand was high enough, maybe someone (like AW! ) would start making a protected or IMR version.


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## easilyled (Feb 9, 2009)

naked2 said:


> As of yet, 18350s are still only available unprotected, but they're fast becoming my favorite cell size for lights that accpet both 18650 and 2x RCR123A. I hope more people start buying/using them, because if the demand was high enough, maybe someone (like AW! ) would start making a protected or IMR version.



What capacity are yours?

Not that one can always judge by what is claimed, but its interesting to note anyway.


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## evenchaos (Feb 9, 2009)

I believe his are the 1.2Ah from KD. What I do think that is happening is that the voltage is sagging under the heavy current draw of the A10. Those can only source ~2.4A while the emitter has been measured to draw over 3A peak (that's including the extra resistance due to the measuring loop). 18650's can source that no problems and remain at 8.4V while the 18350's will drop down maybe with the voltage closer to the nominal 7.4V.


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## Megatorch (Feb 9, 2009)

I came to the light... said:


> But so much more impressive if the light turns out to be SMALL! Ghaa, I can't stand the wait...



The length is ~160mm; body diameter ~25mm; head diameter ~53mm.


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## Megatorch (Feb 9, 2009)

evenchaos said:


> That still doesn't explain why the light draws more current the higher the voltage. It should be the exact opposite for a buck regulator.
> 
> BTW, Tiablo still has this on their product page:
> I still don't understand how companies can continue to lie and/or post such misleading/false specifications. You constantly hear of lawsuits in the states over false advertising, etc but in this case the folks there don't seem to be concerned with the fact that they are deceiving their customers and giving themselves a bad name.



Fully agree.


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