# Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***NiMH Runtime Added...



## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE*** Cree based ***Proton Pro*** Announced*

YES..It's Real.... It's Here... the package arrived today afternoon by UPS

I have taken some pictures. Here are my Initial Views... 

This light is... amazing awesome cool sweet beautiful fantastic sexy hot wonderful incredible gorgeous perfect brilliant excellent fabulous stunning kickass outstanding smart superb terrific unbelievable beauty extraordinary groovy surprising.. Words would be less to describe .. so here are a couple of pictures....

I will get more organized as this review progresses... 

*General Description:*Single AA Cell, Multi LED, uC Controlled Regulated Light with Six 5mm 2X Bright White Nichia CS (C0 bin) LED's arranged in Hexagonal manner and One 5mm Red LED in center.... Body is built of Aluminium, with Type III Hard Anodising. Proton Comes with a Belt Clip and Keychain attachment...Loaded with Lithium 1.5v Battery...UI is Simple to operate and If you own a Freedom Max or X Light from PhotonLight LRI .. then it would not be difficult to operate the light...(more laters....)​*Light Features:*​
Runs on Common AA Cell
Red & White Beams
Both beams are FULLY Dimmable
Floody Throw Beam
Nichia CS (C0 bin) 2X LED's
Soft Starts (about 1/2 second)
*Light Operation:*​
Single Click to Turn ON with White LED's on Full Power, Single Click to Turn OFF the light. Once Off, Red LED Flashes once (probably to confirm that it has really switched off)
Once Light is on in Full Power, Press & Hold to decerease the brightness. You can release at any time and then again press and hold to keep decreasing. Once at Minimum, it will flash a couple of times in minimum to confirm that min. has reached. from there on if you again press and hold, it will change mode to Slow flashing, Fast Flashing, SOS, Beacon Locator Flash etc modes.
Press & Hold to Turn ON Red LED with minimum brightness, Keep holding for Increasing Brightness to Full power
Once the light is in Full Power RED, pressing and holding will change modes same as mentioned above.








 *Pictures:*
*The Proton (Height 92 mm, 20 mm Bezel Dia, 17 mm Body Dia)*
*




*​* Proton SS Clip (yes It's about 1.05 mm Thick) and about 8 mm in Width*



​*Size Comparison with Fenix L2P and Peak's McKinley (Proton in Center)*



​Another Size Comparizon L to R Peak McKinley Pocket, Peak KinoBay Keychain, LRI Proton



​*Bezel Shots:*All OFF Head to Head






All OFF Side View






Red on on Minimum






White on Minimum






*Glows in Dark*






Glow & Red Blink



​Tail Picture



​*Beam Shots:*LRI Proton on Left, Peak's McKinley Ultra Power Snow (7 LED) on Right



​It's Brighter than my McKinley by a good margin... and NO, it is NOT that Blue, Above Picture shows this clearly. Both lights running on Fresh Batteries, Photo is 2 Stops Under exposed and white balance is 'neutral'

Beamshot LRI Proton (on Left) KinoBay (on Right) with 1 Fresh AA (proton now has got about 20 - 25 minutes Old battery)





Beamshot with Red LED on Full Power



​
Here are *More Real Life Beam* shots.. and *Here too* 
I am going to take more beam shots later... Also Planning for Runtime Graphs with Various Batteries​*Review available Full Review http://www.cpfreviews.com/Photon-Proton.php*


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## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE****

reserved


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## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE****

Reserving this for more information


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## BentHeadTX (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE****

 

The gauntlet is flying through the air... now to see what it does. Is it more blue than the Snow29 LEDs? Do you have an HDS U60 to see how it compares with the "ceiling bounce test"? Standing by...


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## diggdug13 (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE****

was this a pre-order or a review light? Just wondering if it's a pre-order I'll camp at my post office for mine.


doug


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## NoFair (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE****



diggdug13 said:


> was this a pre-order or a review light? Just wondering if it's a pre-order I'll camp at my post office for mine.
> 
> 
> doug



I can drive by and drop off some food incase the wait grows long


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## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE****

Updated Review with more text and pictures...

The light is Superb...


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## jar3ds (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE****

awesome! I would like to see some runtime graphs... 

can it use NiMH?


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## LowBat (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Finally the Proton has emerged from the realm of vaporware!

Viren, could you show us how the belt clip and keychain attach?


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## jtice (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Wow, its finally,,, real.

Do the white and red leds have multiple brightness levels?

Can you take a pic of the front of the bezel?

Are the leds covered with a lens?

~John


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## Gene (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Wow, someone actually has one in hand! Looks nice but seems too large for an AA light.


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## this_is_nascar (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Can it tail-stand? It's hard to tell by the pictures.


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## jtice (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

More info here 
http://www.photonlight.com/products/proton/index.html


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## MikeF (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Cool! I can't wait for mine to arrive!!!

:rock:


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## Freedom1955 (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I hate blue beams period.
But I do like the button on the side.:goodjob:


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## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Wow.. Loads of Questions  I would like to answer One by One... 

1) Yes the Light can stand on the Tail (if you remove the keychain attachment)
2) Bezel Pictures Updated
3) NO, It's not too large for an AA Light, I am going to take picture with Peak's KinoBay (the only 1 AA light that I have)
4) LED's are not covered in Lens, however they are kinda protected with Hexagonal Bee Structure
5) its NOT Blue beam !... Period


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## leukos (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Looks great! Another light I don't need but might convince myself to get!


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## this_is_nascar (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Thanks ViReN. I'm glad I pre-ordered (2) of these. Did you recieve yours as part of the "reviewers" program or as a normal "Joe User"? I'm asking so I can anticipate when to expect mine.


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## Oddjob (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I agree with what leukos said!


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## Archangel (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I didn't know about the GID; that's a nice touch.


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## BentHeadTX (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

No lens?! 

That makes the moddability much tougher  

It is about dark were ViReN is located, time for Nichia VS Snow29 VS Luxeon beamshots. I should of sent ViReN a L1P for the "standard 1xAA Luxeon" shot. The glow in the dark shot with red is a very cool feature.


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## greenLED (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

 Nice to see them "out in the wild". They are truly nice lights. I don't remember the GID touch at SHOT - nice!

I'm guessing you're glad you waited, ViReN.


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## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

TIN, I am not sure if I had recieved this as a "Reviewer" but I had requested light early and had requested light even if they (Bryan / David) have any production samples.... I simply could not wait more  I was sooooo..Impatient 

As Usual I review All lights that I get 

I am taking a more Beam shots and will post them soon.


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## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

greenLED, I am really glad that I had waited for this light 

BentHeadTX: i will be taking a beamshot of L2P (with 1 Dummy and One Fresh Cell) against Proton.... I believe that L2P with 1 Dummy will be more than equivalent to L1P (as this configuration will be brighter than the L1P setup) looking at various runtime graphs posted here...


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## BentHeadTX (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

ViReN,
The biggest draw for me is the variable output red LED, my Arc AAA red LED light is getting nervous. The white LEDs would be used as a backup light. I don't need any single AA lights at this time (have about 5 of them!) but the UI interests me in case LRI rolls out something with more punch and SCC, Jupiter or Luxeon emitters. (4AA please!) 
Nice pictures BTW, different color tints tend to drive digital cameras crazy. Kudos for great close-up camera work. :thumbsup:


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## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



BentHeadTX said:


> No lens?!
> 
> That makes the moddability much tougher
> 
> It is about dark were ViReN is located, time for Nichia VS Snow29 VS Luxeon beamshots. I should of sent ViReN a L1P for the "standard 1xAA Luxeon" shot. The glow in the dark shot with red is a very cool feature.



*It's Moddable*, the Protective HoneyBee Hexagonal reflector is just like a normal reflector placed without a glass window there is a Inverted L shaped Cross Sectional Groove on the head, just like the Mini [email protected] 2AA's Bezel glass window Cap which stops glass from falling off (holds glasss with O ring) similar is the case with Proton Bezel Head too.... and i think _you CAN easily put a Glass window and other reflector_ with a LED ....

I have not yet tried to open this light but I can clearly see that it is openable and Moddable.... with not much of effort.


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## ViReN (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

BentHeadTX  thanks...

For the Glow Images, I have taken these shots in evening (that's why background is appearing redish).... the glow is Bright 

Brightness for Both White and Red LED's can be set... I believe there are around 256 Levels or Brightness settings... (I may be wrong, but as apperent from smooth increase in brightness) furthermore, the levels are set in Logarithmic patern so the increase and decrease of brightness looks very linear....


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## greenlight (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Good for them for adding GID.


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## cave dave (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I had to double check to make sure it wasn't April 1st. 



ViReN said:


> This light is... amazing awesome cool sweet beautiful fantastic sexy hot wonderful incredible gorgeous perfect brilliant excellent fabulous stunning kickass outstanding smart superb terrific unbelievable beauty extraordinary groovy surprising..


My major complaint about most reviews is they are too objective and don't state an actual opinion of the light being reviewed. Good job ViReN :thumbsup:

Questions:
1) Is the clip removable
2) Is there any way to "lockout" the light. Side buttons seem prone to accidental activation.


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## cave dave (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

The Proton (Height 92 mm, 20 mm Bezel Dia, 17 mm Body Dia)

Fenix L1P (Height 92 mm, 20 mm Bezel and body Dia)

Dang its a tad smaller than the Fenix (body diameter), the pics make it look huge.


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## this_is_nascar (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I'm really looking forward to this light. Initially, I swore not to get one because of the 5xLED configuration instead of the initial 1xLED concept. I'm glad I took a step back and did the pre-order. This light seems pretty exciting and I've always liked the LRI interface. I"m wondering about size (it looks big for a 1xAA light), but I've made that mistake before.

I've re-looked at ViReN's pictures again and still don't understand the tail-standing capabilities. Does the end-clip come off similar to the Peak lights?


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## Haz (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

nice review ViReN, I'm glad that you like this light. I like to see it compared to a Fenix L1P as well.

I would also like to see some real life beamshots,
and can you compare the throw with other lights.

I understand it's not meant to throw, but i like to see how well it lights up the surrounding.

Haz


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## carrot (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I have to have one! The Proton is exactly what I was hoping it would be... similar UI to the Freedom... How much are they?


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## this_is_nascar (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



carrot said:


> I have to have one! The Proton is exactly what I was hoping it would be... similar UI to the Freedom... How much are they?



$62.96 I think. I ordered (2), got free Priority Mail shipping at a total of $125.92


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## planex (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

This light looks awesome!!:rock: Just pre-ordered one. Anyone know when they are expected to ship?


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## this_is_nascar (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



planex said:


> This light looks awesome!!:rock: Just pre-ordered one. Anyone know when they are expected to ship?



The last I heard, mid to late May, which is pretty much now. The 1st shipments will not have the official packaging.


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## cave dave (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Viren,
Peter Gransee is currently accepting more lights to test in the LSI integrating sphere. HINT! HINT!

Hey how cool is this:
"When the battery starts to near the end of its useful life, the red secondary beam LED will start to blink, indicating that the battery is getting low. When the battery has finally reached the point where it can no longer support the selected level of brightness, the light will finally start to dim slightly and the red secondary beam LED will come on continuously indicating the reduced power. At any point while the secondary beam is indicating low battery power, you may manually reduce the brightness which will turn off the low power indication until the battery again reaches the point where it cannot support the current level of brightness."


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## The_LED_Museum (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I received my Proton several days ago, but since my cameras, test instruments, etc. are on their way to California, the following information I intend to add to my website is incomplete.:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*WHAT IS IT?*
The Proton is brought to you by LRI, the company who brought you the hugely successful Photon Micro Light II, the Photon Micro Light III, Photon Freedom Fusion, Photon Freedom Micro Light, Photon "Freedom to the Max" Micro, Photon X-Light, and others. 

The Proton has 7 LEDs (6 white and 1 red) inset into individual hosels for them, is powered by just a single AA cell, and comes in an aluminum body with a super tough HA-III (Hard Anodize Type III as us flashaholics know it). This is the most durable finish that can be given to aluminum flashlights. 

What makes the Proton different from other 1xAA cell LED flashlights isn't that durable HA-III finish, it isn't that rubberised button on its barrel, and it isn't those 7 LEDs set into hosels in its business-end; it's that the Proton is very versatile!!! Both the white LEDs and the red LED can be dimmed from eye-stabbingly bright to so dim you can look directly into them, and there are a number of automatic signalling (blink) modes; all accessible via the single pushbutton on its barrel. 

The white LEDs are the latest Nichia NSPW500CS type; these are approximately 2x as bright as their previous generation of white LEDs. 

It also has a "soft start", where the LEDs don't just come on at full power when you push the button; they ramp up to full intensity over approximately 500ms (1/2 second). 


*FEEDING TIME*
To change the battery, unscrew and remove the tailcap, throw it to the ground, and stomp on it with old or used bowling shoes...O WAIT!!! YOU'LL NEED THAT!!! So just set it aside instead. 

Tip the used AA cell out of the barrel and into your hand, and dispose of or recycle it as you see fit. 

Insert a new AA cell into the barrel, button-end (+) positive first. 

Sscrew the tailcap firmly back on.
Aren't you glad you didn't stomp on that tailcap now? 


*THE PUNISHMENT ZONE*
The Proton is water-resistant and may be submersible too. I removed the tailcap and performed that dreadful suction test on it. It held a vaccume (vaccuummnne, vacumn, vaccum, vacume, vacuum, etc.) so it really *IS* water- and pee-resistant. 

The large clip functions quite effectively as an anti-roll device, so even if you drop the Proton on a distinctly non-level surface, it will not roll very far away from you. Not to say it won't slide away on a very slanted surface, but it will not *ROLL* away. 

The bezel (head) has a GITD (glow in the dark) material in it. This glows when it is irradiated by the light from the white LEDs, or when "charged" from an external light source. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## cave dave (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

craig, what do you think? do you like it? Is it worth the dough? Is it bright? Should i buy one?


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## onthebeam (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

This light sounds mighty cool, sort of like a mini VB-16 intended as a candidate for the most versatile, compact indoor flood light.


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## The_LED_Museum (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



cave dave said:


> craig, what do you think? do you like it? Is it worth the dough? Is it bright? Should i buy one?


In my opinion, yes, it is a terrific flashlight. Not only is it bright, it is dimmable if you find it to be *TOO* bright for a particular job.

Barring unexpected problems, I fully expect it to rate very highly when I get to California and add it to my website.

I do not have a light meter at my disposal, but I don't expect to obtain a reading much less than 100,000mcd when I do get to measure it late this month or early next month at the latest.


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## nemul (May 15, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



BentHeadTX said:


> No lens?!



ditto!


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## PhotonLight (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



cave dave said:


> 1) Is the clip removable


 
Yes, the clip is removeable and a small spacer piece is included in the package which you may snap in to fill the gap where the clip attaches to restore that sleek look when the belt clip is removed.  




cave dave said:


> 2) Is there any way to "lockout" the light. Side buttons seem prone to accidental activation.


 
Yes. The UI includes a momentary "morse code" or "travel mode" feature which can be used for signaling, or for locking out the switch to avoid accidental turn-on. Those who own a Freedom Micro, Freedom Fusion, or the new X-Light Micro will find this a familiar feature. Essentially, you just tap the button quickly a few times (it takes about six presses) to enter the momentary mode. The button will then function as a momentary switch (only turning on when the button is pressed and turning off as soon as it is released). To get back to normal operation, just press and hold the button for about 4 seconds until the light turns off.


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## ViReN (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

cave dave: Clip is Removable, the Lockout Mode can be simulated, keeping the light in Signal mode.... I didnt have Fenix L1P so i didnt knew it's dimentions.. I wish I had two lights, one of which could be sent to Peter for Lumen Testing.... 

TIN, the Keychain Attachment is attached through a small spiral ring, once you remove it, it can tailstand. It's not like Peak LED that you could unscrew.... if you view the "Tail Picture" the 'picture' will be clear 

The Proton was initially designed for a Single Power LED and two 3mm RED led's .... and LRI has just replaced that with 7 LED's ... and the externals havent changed much... so I believe a standard IMS / Custom Reflector (17 - 18 mm) along with an *S Bin 1 Watt* could be easily be put in (also note the heat radiating groovy bezel)....

Today Evening I will be buying some fresh Cells and then compare the beamshot with L2P with 1 Dummy Cell .... 

I will also take some real life beam shots.... Yesterday I checked with Celing Bounce test... and Proton appars to be brighter than L2P (with 2 Cells.. about 1/2 Hour used).. it also has more floody beam and lights up area nicely.

Craig  Great review.... Thanks.


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## vic303 (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Sounds like a fun light. If I ever see one in the sale forums for about $30, I'd probably get it. But I can't see paying 70+$ for it...just my opinion. YMMV.


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## moraino (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Pre-order sale price $62.96 ea
http://www.photonlight.com/products/proton/index.html


Wholesale inquiry form
http://www.photonlight.com/wholesale/request_form.html


It looks like a light for short and mid range use flightlight for 90% of use. You just add another long throw light and all is covered. Or is it. :goodjob:


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## Lumenz (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

DARN YOU ViReN! 
DARN YOU LRI! 

I just pre-ordered the Proton. I wasn't supposed to be buying anymore flashlights for a while. But this seems to be a great all-around flashlight. It seems like the kind of light I would need to take with me everywhere--a real EDC light. It would be good for lighting up the darkness, giving a little light when fixing a computer, and a red light when reading a map in the truck.

It sure seems expensive though.


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## shoeblade (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

From the picture the dies look big, are they 4 die leds or just 1 die?


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## moraino (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I_ will also take some real life beam shots.... Yesterday I checked with Celing Bounce test... and Proton appars to be brighter than L2P (with 2 Cells.. about 1/2 Hour used).. it also has more floody beam and lights up area nicely._


Please measure the current draw at different states comparing L2P. 

Anticipating the beam shots. Time to sleep. :goodjob:


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## ViReN (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

shoeblade: they are 2X Bright Nichia CS (C0 Bin) LED's with Single Die, not 4 die...

moraino: I will try to do that today...

Also, the Light Meter is on it's way.... hopefully I should be able to do the runtime charts with Lux @ 1M as well.


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## ChocolateLab33 (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

 SEE WHAT YOU DID! I was not supposed to order any more lights!!!! Now I gotta' sell something!


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## Rob187 (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Great review, ViReN. Now, I am sure that pre-ordering was a good decision.
Can't wait to get it. C'mon postman...


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## jar3ds (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

*For Those Concerned About It Being TOO BIG*

Check this pic thats on their website:

http://www.photonlight.com/images/proton/proton-blazinglight_sm.jpg

Gives you a better idea of what the size is... about the same size or smaller than the fenix from what i've read...

BTW... I just bought one ... I don't have a 1xAA flashlight yet (hard to believe isn't it) and this is what i've been looking for  Hope it performs as well as I hope!


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## this_is_nascar (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I can see I'll be placing some tritium vials in those bezel grooves.


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## jar3ds (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



this_is_nascar said:


> I can see I'll be placing some tritium vials in those bezel grooves.


 good idea.. that'll be purdy 

BTW the clip reminds me a lot of a Benchmade knife clip 

my main concern is with the switch of this light... push button switches have failed me so many times that i'm scarred of them ... a light can be gold and made of gold... but if the switch fails.. its a paper weight


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## Crossbar (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Is there a way to reverse the clip? I'd like to clip it to the brim of a hat while camping and use it like a headlamp.


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## this_is_nascar (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Crossbar said:


> Is there a way to reverse the clip? I'd like to clip it to the brim of a hat while camping and use it like a headlamp.



If not, walk backwards.


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## jar3ds (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Crossbar said:


> Is there a way to reverse the clip? I'd like to clip it to the brim of a hat while camping and use it like a headlamp.


 i don't think there is... but from my experience... a flashlight will never do what a quad or eos w/ a 18mm reflector does ...

the quad is tiny too... its easily carried... and will be used more than a flashlight under long dark conditions...


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## jar3ds (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

just an observation... 

the HDS is 25.4mm in dia & 82mm in length...

the Proton is 17/20mm in dia & 92mm in length...

only about 1cm longer... but much thinner...

my personal HDS has F04 rubber on the tail and a F04 on the head... making it 93mm... so the proton will be smaller than my HDS... go figure


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## sireofdoom (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Thanks for the great review. All of us here at LRI enjoyed reading it.
Davids been working hard on making this thing as perfect as he possibly can.
I have the instructions if your interested in looking at them. Just e-mail me.
[email protected]


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## onthebeam (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



sireofdoom said:


> Thanks for the great review. All of us here at LRI enjoyed reading it.
> Davids been working hard on making this thing as perfect as he possibly can.
> [email protected]



Hi SireofDoom,

Welcome to CPF. You've got me very intrigued by the Proton. Congrats to you and the staff on its development and impending launch. Can you tell us when it will ship?


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## nerdgineer (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



jar3ds said:


> *...*Check this pic thats on their website...Gives you a better idea of what the size is...


Trouble is, the hand could belong to someone 7 ft tall. That's a trick that's used A LOT to spin the apparent size of equipment in photos.


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## PhotonLight (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



nerdgineer said:


> Trouble is, the hand could belong to someone 7 ft tall. That's a trick that's used A LOT to spin the apparent size of equipment in photos.


 
True. But in this case it's not. I can confirm that it looks equally small in my own average sized hand.


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## this_is_nascar (May 16, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I just had a scary thought that inspired this question. As part of the primary light dimming (the 6xWhite LEDS) is dimming done by turning off each LED or do all (6) dim at once to a lower level. I'm really hoping it's the latter.


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## xochi (May 16, 2006)

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Bryan and other Photonlight folks, just wanted to let you know, Viren just sold me, too! Send that man a some Photon Swag! Seriously, the Proton is compelling in itself (and I _really _like the new nichia 5mm leds-even with lots of experience with luxeons) Virens enthusiasm certainly put me over the edge and made me dip into the McLuxIII Ti-PD fund. 

I'd like to say that I too find the ability to clip a small light like the Proton to a ball cap a very valuable option. I used to work as an electrician and I frequently used my Arc4+ this way. That situation wasn't good for a headlamp due to the bulk or awkwardness of carrying it and a ball cap keeps dust , bugs, etc off the scalp. Ball caps also provide more protection than you'd think against frequent head bumps in crawl spaces and low ceilings. For many tradesmen this is a great option. 

Also, I'm not 100% sure if I'm understanding the user interface correctly. Am I correct in the understanding that the red led comes on at low and is adjusted upwards while the white leds come on at high and are adjusted down? I think it would be great if the red led came on at low , was adjusted up to max and then a quick signal flash indicates transisition to white light in low that can be adjusted upwards. Some say red leds are good for night vision preservation (some debate this, I'm sure) but they are bad for color rendition, it would be nice to transition from single red high to multiple white low for quick color checking without too much nightvision disturbance. I know , I should "Get a life" as I seem way too opinionated on how a light I don't even have should operate, either way, maybe you'll find the feedback useful, maybe not. 

Thanks and I'm very excited to get a Proton.

Thanks for the great review Viren! Your enthusiasm for the Proton is very geeky but also very infectious :goodjob:.


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## xochi (May 16, 2006)

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this_is_nascar said:


> I just had a scary thought that inspired this question. As part of the primary light dimming (the 6xWhite LEDS) is dimming done by turning off each LED or do all (6) dim at once to a lower level. I'm really hoping it's the latter.



It's the latter, Ray. Viren stated about 256 levels or such (based on percieved smoothness of transition) of dimming. I doubt it's that many but it isn't individual Leds. They use PWM in the other Photon lights and this was originally planned for HO LEDS so I'll eat hot lead if they dim by turning out one led at a time. That would suck.


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## LowWorm (May 16, 2006)

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ChocolateLab33 said:


> SEE WHAT YOU DID! I was not supposed to order any more lights!!!! Now I gotta' sell something!



What ChocolateLab said...


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## nemul (May 16, 2006)

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LowWorm said:


> What ChocolateLab said...



ditto.....
i'm gettin one this friday when i get paid!


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## Mr. Blue (May 16, 2006)

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ya...I pre ordered....kinda hard not to.....just wish it would come on in last low preset


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## greenlight (May 16, 2006)

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xochi said:


> It's the latter, Ray. Viren stated about 256 levels or such (based on percieved smoothness of transition) of dimming. I doubt it's that many but it isn't individual Leds. They use PWM in the other Photon lights and this was originally planned for HO LEDS so I'll eat hot lead if they dim by turning out one led at a time. That would suck.



What would be cool would be a signal function where one led would light, then the next, around the bezel. There are a few different patterns one could imagine, and different speeds would be nice.


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## The_LED_Museum (May 16, 2006)

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this_is_nascar said:


> I just had a scary thought that inspired this question. As part of the primary light dimming (the 6xWhite LEDS) is dimming done by turning off each LED or do all (6) dim at once to a lower level. I'm really hoping it's the latter.


According to my admitedly crude test to determine the presence of PWM, all six LEDs turn off & on simultaneously.


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## ViReN (May 17, 2006)

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sireofdoom: Thanks... and Welcome to CPF... PM Sent with email address...

 Thanks every one... who liked my review....

the light does not feel big at all, in fact since it's slimmer ... it sits very comfortably in my (normal sized) hand... (my height is 5'10".... average height i believe  just in case if there any kind of formula to determine hand size.. please let me know)

Sorry I could not update anything yesterday as I could not get new Lithium Batteries at my regular store yesterday...

I am thinking of going out for weekend ++ Trip and gonna take proton with me.. Will share my experiences upon return....


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## ViReN (May 17, 2006)

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this_is_nascar said:


> I just had a scary thought that inspired this question. As part of the primary light dimming (the 6xWhite LEDS) is dimming done by turning off each LED or do all (6) dim at once to a lower level. I'm really hoping it's the latter.



All White LED's change the brightness together 



xochi said:


> Am I correct in the understanding that the red led comes on at low and is adjusted upwards while the white leds come on at high and are adjusted down?



Yes You are right... The reason for red to start at dim first is i believe probably to preserve your night vision... when you start Red, With Low brightness and then adjust to the level of illumination required.... if had it been the case otherwise, starting red at brightest level would blind night adapted eyes


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## adirondackdestroyer (May 17, 2006)

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Viren


Thanks alot for the review! I can't believe that the Proton is actually coming to life afterall. It really is looking like it could be everything it has been made up to be, and possibly even more.  
If you could take some beamshots in a room (or hallway) that would show how useful the beam is in real life situations, that would be great. Possibly against the L1P or something similar. If it uses 6 Nichia CS CO LED's, I would imagine the high output would be at least 35 lumens, if not a little more. 

I am definetly getting myself one of these. I see this as the ultimate camping flashlight !


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## jar3ds (May 17, 2006)

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Makers of the Proton: any idea when these will start shipping 

Viren: are you able to do a runtime test of brightness vs. time? I feel bad we keep harrassing you for more info , thank you for all that you have done up to this point though!

I am quite thankful that white comes on as @ max brightness first... and that red comes on @ min. Its perfect for those that want a fast action white light and yet need to walk to the bathroom in the middle of the night using the red LED... excellent design... 

if it does produce the advertised around 50lumens @ aprox 1.5hours thats pretty much all you can ask for at this current time in history.... obviously that mostlikely with the 1.7v lithiums AA's... but NiMH's should do pretty good as well


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## onthebeam (May 17, 2006)

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Mr. Blue said:


> ya...I pre ordered....kinda hard not to.....just wish it would come on in last low preset


Ditto for me. That's one feature the inexpensive VB-16 has that I find essential. It has become the ultimate baby checking light. If it came on at full blast, it would be blinding for the baby or annoying for a trip to the bathroom in the middle of the night.


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## jar3ds (May 17, 2006)

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onthebeam said:


> Ditto for me. That's one feature the inexpensive VB-16 has that I find essential. It has become the ultimate baby checking light. If it came on at full blast, it would be blinding for the baby or annoying for a trip to the bathroom in the middle of the night.


 just use the red led to check on the baby ... that way it won't hurt yours or him/her nightvision


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## xochi (May 17, 2006)

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jar3ds said:


> just use the red led to check on the baby ... that way it won't hurt yours or him/her nightvision



May lead to years of hypnotic regression therapy trying to understand alien abduction in the red beam of light.....


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## jtice (May 17, 2006)

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The light seems pretty good overal.
I dont care for colored leds, so I am not sure I would use the red one at all.
But I like the rest of the design aspect of it.

I would love to see some beamshots comparing it to a Fenix L1P or L0P.
At a distance of about 30 feet or so.

I would also like to get any idea of if it is living up to the 50 lumen rating.
and eventually see a runtime, so we can see just how regulated it really is.

So, did we confirm that its using PWM?
if so, is this real noticable on low settings?

~John


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## jar3ds (May 17, 2006)

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any confirm this is or isn't PWM?

can we assume that a Arc AAA P's single nichia 5mm gives off 7 lumens? 

6x7=42... 

I have no idea how any of these LED's are driven so I don't know if the Proton is brighter or not? I also have no idea if you can just mult. like that...  Just a thought...

---

I find the idea of using a red LED so smart... this will allow me in my military work to keep my nightvision in a humvee (reading a map and such)... I almost find with my HDS U60GT that even on really low... theres so little light coming out that its still hard to see over a large coverage area without a F04... a red led will solve this and allow me to keep most of my nightvision even while ramping it to the perfered amount... yet i can at any moment obtain max white output... seems pretty impressive...

allowing the light to ramp up instead of having presets:

pro: allows a person to have their own amount for their task

cons: no idea how long the light will last on battery power...

when i get mine i will try to catch the ramp up process half way from max to min to get a runtime at that point... that way i can have an idea of what my light will do...

cheers!


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## Quickbeam (May 17, 2006)

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Krud... I'm still waiting for mine to arrive.... Hopefully soon... Thanks for the review!


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## The_LED_Museum (May 17, 2006)

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jar3ds said:


> any confirm this is or isn't PWM?


According to my admittedly crude test to determine whether or not PWM is used, yes, it is PWM.
I can confirm it with at least 99.9% accuracy.


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## jtice (May 17, 2006)

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pffft, 99.9% accuracy?
I am afraid thats just not gonna cut it Craig.

nah, thats good enough for me. :nana:
Thanks
~John


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## jar3ds (May 17, 2006)

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The_LED_Museum said:


> According to my admittedly crude test to determine whether or not PWM is used, yes, it is PWM.
> I can confirm it with at least 99.9% accuracy.


 how noticedable is it one the lower settings? If @ all...


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## legtu (May 17, 2006)

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The_LED_Museum said:


> It also has a "soft start", where the LEDs don't just come on at full power when you push the button; they ramp up to full intensity over approximately 500ms (1/2 second).



Anybody has an idea on what's the reason for the 'ramp up'?


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## PhotonBoy (May 17, 2006)

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I can't think of a technical reason for the ramp up in intensity. All I can think of is that it's a part of a well-thought-out user interface designed to hint at the ability of the user to change the output level.

When you first turn on the EternaLight ErgoMarine light (which also has dimming capability) it does two quick sequential scans from LED 1 to LED 4 and then comes on at full intensity. Again, I think this hints at the electronic 'smarts' in the light.


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## PhotonLight (May 17, 2006)

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legtu said:


> Anybody has an idea on what's the reason for the 'ramp up'?


 
From the spec sheet: "Exclusive Eyesafe(tm) technology".... "The white light ramps up at a similar rate to the human eye's natural constriction in case of accidental direct exposure at power up."

And yes, the Proton does use PWM to dim the light, just like all the rest of the Photon products. The PWM can be confirmed by looking directly at the LEDs as you move the light rapidly back and forth. The strobing PWM effect is generally only noticeable if looking directly at the LEDs while they are in motion, and is not visible in the projected beam itself.

As for the questions about ETA, we don't have any further information at this time other than the mid/late may that is posted on the website. As soon as I hear anything otherwise, I will be sure to share.


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## Perfectionist (May 17, 2006)

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I knew the Proton would Kick *** !!  

Great review V and a big "I told you so" to all the naysayers !!  

I had been checking the LED section everyday this month in anticipation ..... turns out this review has been sitting here for days !! Doh !! 

Can't wait to get mine ...... and stick Tritium all over it !! 

Finally a TRUE edc has arrived !! ..... Time to sell all my other lights !!


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## Planterz (May 17, 2006)

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To see PWM in effect, just shake the light back and forth real fast. If the light looks like it's putting out dots rather than a beam, it uses PWM. Otherwise you'd see a solid "blur". Fun to do in the dark if you put your thumb over the front.


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## hookoo (May 18, 2006)

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Just preordered one of these badboys. Hopefully we will see these delivered by the end of the month.


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## hookoo (May 18, 2006)

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Perfectionist said:


> I knew the Proton would Kick *** !!
> 
> 
> 
> Finally a TRUE edc has arrived !! ..... Time to sell all my other lights !!




Indeed, I normally do not need a light with much throw. The GID feature is what pushed me over the edge. Also, being slighty higher priced then the fenix is understandable. They have the no hassle Lifetime warrenty which also is a big plus for me

too cool!


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## aceo07 (May 18, 2006)

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I'd love to see the runtimes for this.

Is it possible to start turn on the light at a preset brightness level?


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## jar3ds (May 18, 2006)

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aceo07 said:


> I'd love to see the runtimes for this.
> 
> Is it possible to start turn on the light at a preset brightness level?


 runtimes? you and me both 

the light will only come on in Max White, and Min. Red... depending on if you click the switch or hold it down, respectively...


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## paulr (May 18, 2006)

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It says 1.4 watts--does that mean to the led's? In that case it's overdriving them to within an inch of their lives! I hope they're replaceable.


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## jar3ds (May 18, 2006)

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if its PWM... is it really regulated? or just rely on the discharge curve of its battery?


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## PhotonBoy (May 18, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Regulated: yes, I think so from what I read on CPF
Then again, it's a lot to expect from a single AA cell.


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## PhotonLight (May 18, 2006)

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paulr said:


> It says 1.4 watts--does that mean to the led's? In that case it's overdriving them to within an inch of their lives! I hope they're replaceable.


 
The **** watts is total overall power consumption. I believe the actual amount delivered to the LEDs is closer to **** watts. And yes, it is regulated.

[EDIT: Removed erroneous information: Per Chanik's post below, actual numbers are 1.4 watts *delivered* to LEDs with lithium AA or 1.2 watts for NiMH AA]


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## jar3ds (May 18, 2006)

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PhotonLight said:


> The 1.4 watts is total overall power consumption. I believe the actual amount delivered to the LEDs is closer to 1.25 watts. And yes, it is regulated.


 thanks!


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## PhotonLight (May 18, 2006)

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PhotonLight said:


> The 1.4 watts is total overall power consumption. I believe the actual amount delivered to the LEDs is closer to 1.25 watts. And yes, it is regulated.


 
Hmmm.... ok, well it seems that's not the whole story. From Chanik's post in the Proton vs. Fenix L1T/L2T thread: total power consumption from a lithium AA is 1.6 watts, which works out to 1.4W delivered to the LEDs. The numbers I quoted above should be close when using a NiMH AA though.


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## jar3ds (May 18, 2006)

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so are these indeed pushing the LED's pretty hard? I don't know the specs of the nichia LED's but I woud hate for my light to have as long of a life as a bulb


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## chanik (May 18, 2006)

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It is 1.4W *DELIVERED* to the LED payload on Li. (1.6W consumed). Of course, the main regulation is synchronous boost switching. Has to be to drive LEDs from 0.8V to 1.5V I PWM on top of that to dim. 60mA per LED. 50mA on NiMH


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## jar3ds (May 18, 2006)

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hows the specs of the nichia 2x's 5mm's when it comes to mA's?

Also, what is the general life expectacy (in hours) of 5mm's driven to spec?


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## d1337 (May 18, 2006)

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Also, what is the general life expectacy (in hours) of 5mm's droven to spec?[/QUOTE]


10,000 hours driven to spec.


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## xochi (May 18, 2006)

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The new nichias are just as durable as the old ones and the additional output of the new leds is totally related to better "delivery" of light , "creation" of light is the same as the older leds. 

If you look around for info about the nichias durability and lumen maintenance, they are *AWESOME!* They kick just about every other leds tail for longevity and overdriven nichias (within reason of course) should still last an incredibly long time. The new nichia led is , as far as I'm concerned, THE most underrated and overlooked LED on CPF. The Proton doesn't seem to be pushing the LEDs beyond reason.

*Why no promotion of the Glow-In-the-Dark feature? *Has some other company attempted to patent this CPF classic mod (maybe lumaray)? *Is the GITD a standard feature of all future Protons or is this just a early model type of thing?* Is the idea behind the lack of promotion of GITD that people really like getting more than they bought and that impresses people into word of mouth advertising? 

I really don't want to expect something that won't be there if you know what I mean.


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## jar3ds (May 19, 2006)

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where's viren when you need him ... i thought we were going to get more pics and runtimes


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## this_is_nascar (May 19, 2006)

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I thought he mentioned something about taking his Photon on an extended weekend trip or something like that.


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## PhotonLight (May 19, 2006)

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xochi said:


> *Why no promotion of the Glow-In-the-Dark feature? *Has some other company attempted to patent this CPF classic mod (maybe lumaray)? *Is the GITD a standard feature of all future Protons or is this just a early model type of thing?* Is the idea behind the lack of promotion of GITD that people really like getting more than they bought and that impresses people into word of mouth advertising?


 
Ok, there you go. I have added the GITD feature to the Proton page.  The GITD was a bit of a surprise to me since it wasn't mentioned on any of the spec sheets or information I received from LRI initially, and David had never mentioned it in conversations I had had with him in all the months leading up, which is why it wasn't included on the page initially. It *is* a permanent feature of the light though. No need to worry about only the first production run including this. 

From what I can tell though, it may be more eye candy than a truly functional feature. Since the GITD material is underneath the chrome bezel piece, it is not very exposed to the outside world and does not seem to be charged very easily be ambient light. Of course, when you turn the light on, the white LEDs instantly charge it to full brightness so it does glow brightly every time the light is turned off. This could reduce the usefulness of the GITD though for purposes such as finding the Proton in the dark when the lights go out, unless it has been used recently. Regardless, I still think it's a *very* cool feature.


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## Cyclops942 (May 19, 2006)

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PhotonLight said:


> From what I can tell though, it may be more eye candy than a truly functional feature. Since the GITD material is underneath the chrome bezel piece, it is not very exposed to the outside world and does not seem to be charged very easily be ambient light. Of course, when you turn the light on, the white LEDs instantly charge it to full brightness so it does glow brightly every time the light is turned off. This could reduce the usefulness of the GITD though for purposes such as finding the Proton in the dark when the lights go out, unless it has been used recently. Regardless, I still think it's a *very* cool feature.



Bryan,

From what I've seen from LRI with respect to GITD stuff (the switch covers on the Photon Freedom and the X Light Micro), the light level from the GITD material will be visible to dark-adapted eyes for quite a while after the last use of the Proton. Charging up my X Light Micro at 21:00, for instance, yields a still-visible switch cover at 04:30. Given this performance level with GITD materials from LRI in existing lights, I would think that using the Proton once a day would provide sufficient charge to the GITD material to have it prove useful in finding the Proton in the dark-- providing, of course, that your eyeballs had an unobstructed line of sight to the business end of the Proton. 

Until the Protons reach our anxious hands, we'll just have to speculate, though (unless we can con you or ViReN into performing a test of the GITD feature). (Hint, hint!)


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## Perfectionist (May 19, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I'd love to see a group buy for perfectly sized Titium Vials and Glow Bands and Super Glow Paint from http://glowinc.com/detail.aspx?ID=1 

Those grooves in the head of the light are begging for it !!


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## loalight (May 19, 2006)

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Hey Viren-

How low is the low, say compared to a sigle photon freedom?

tia


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## PhotonLight (May 19, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Over the past week or two there has been a lot of speculation & comments regarding the Proton and a few issues have come up which I would like to address.

*GITD:* This is a standard included feature. The Protons sent out for review are pre-production samples, but for all intents & purposes should be identical to the final production version. 

*Modding:* LRI does not recommend modding the Proton as an excercise to be undertaken by just anybody, however I know many of you on CPF are looking forward to tweaking & modifying the Proton with different LEDs or other mods. While LRI cannot be held responsible if you damage your light digging around inside it, David *is* planning on making some clear disassembly instructions available once things have settled down for those of you who just can't leave well enough alone, so that you can at least avoid damaging your shiny new Proton while just trying to figure out how to take it apart. ;-) 

*Adding a Lens:* The decision to go without a separate lens was a conscious design decision. Adding any lens to the end of the light would reduce the total light output of the light significantly (at least 10% even with the best lens) while not providing any substantial benefit. The LEDs are already well protected due to being recessed into the honey comb reflector, and since the light is waterproof, if you end up sticking the business end of your Proton in the mud or otherwise end up getting the LEDs dirty, washing them off is a simple matter.
For those who wish to add a lens anyway, the end of the Proton's head can be unscrewed to allow a lens to be added on top of the honeycomb reflector. There's an o-ring already there for just this purpose. 

*Belt Clip Mods & Attachments:* Some have commented on how they would like to see different types of clips or attachments for the Proton. If enough people are looking for a particular accessory LRI may consider offering it, however it should be fairly simple to match the snap-ring type of attachment method the existing belt clip uses for modders with some machining ability.

*Nylon Pouch Accessory:* All Protons will also be including a nylon belt pouch accessory. While these pouches won't likely be ready for the initial shipment of Protons, the intention is to include the pouch with each Proton. For those ordering directly from PhotonLight.com, we will ship the pouches separately as soon as they are available at no additional cost. For those who buy a Proton elswhere without the pouch, they may send a *padded* self-addressed, stamped envelope directly to LRI along with proof of purchase, and LRI will send them their pouch. Any Protons packaged without the pouch will include a note to this effect. I'll have pictures of the pouch available on the Proton page soon for those wondering what it will look like.

*ETA:* At this point, we are still hoping for a late-May delivery (i.e. very soon). Unfortunately, due to a number of variables, it will likely be very difficult to pin down an exact delivery date until LRI actually has the lights in-hand, at which point the ETA will essentially be "now". I know many of you would like an actual date you can mark on your calendar, but this is simply not going to happen. As soon as the Protons arrive, we will of course be announcing it on the website, via our email newsletter, and here on CPF.


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## ChocolateLab33 (May 19, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

  Excellent, I am looking forward to this light. Two day express should get it here as soon as they arrive!


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## The_LED_Museum (May 19, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I can't wait until I once again have access to my cameras, test equipment, and spectrometer so I can get (what I expect to be a glowing) evaluation published on my website!!!   :thumbsup:


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## loalight (May 19, 2006)

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PhotonLight said:


> Over the past week or two there has been a lot of speculation & comments regarding the Proton and a few issues have come up which I would like to address.
> ...


It's really wonderful having you here. Thanks for your quick and forthright responses- it reflects the integrity of the product.

And very cool about the disassembly instructions!


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## greg_in_canada (May 19, 2006)

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Can someone explain the difference between LRI and Proton? Is LRI the (exclusive) manufacturer for Proton or is it something different?

Thanks - Greg


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## BobVA (May 19, 2006)

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greg_in_canada said:


> Is LRI the (exclusive) manufacturer for Proton ...?
> 
> Thanks - Greg



Yep. They also make the Photon keychain light series.


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## greg_in_canada (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Thanks.

Greg


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## PhotonLight (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

LRI is the manufacturer of the Photon brand of lights. Many people are much more familiar with the Photon brand name than the LRI company name since "Photon" is the name that has always been displayed so prominently on the packaging. Just to add a little confusion to the mix, LRI has decided to name their new light "Proton". The Proton will of course be a Photon brand product, but I doubt you'll hear many people referring to it as the "Photon Proton". 

Actually, I find it kind of amusing because for years people have been mis-pronouncing "Photon" as "Proton", calling up and asking to order a "Proton light" (or plenty of other versions like "photo light" or "pee-hoe-tawn light"). Now that we finally *do* have an actual "Proton" light we're going to have to be extra careful, "Proton... Sir, do you want the keychain light or the handheld flashlight?"


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## jar3ds (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

craig,

when do you expect to have access to your equipment? Thanks!

Jared


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## leukos (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Looking forward to picking one of these up!


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## Mr. Blue (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Viren, does it throw or spill better than the McKinley?
Were you running lithium AA's in it?


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## The_LED_Museum (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



jar3ds said:


> craig,
> 
> when do you expect to have access to your equipment? Thanks!
> 
> Jared


I'd say early-June at the latest...probably just under two more weeks as of now.


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## d1337 (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Thank you to ViRen, Brian, and LRI. I can't wait for my pre order to come in. I hope it isn't as good as the Photon because I've bought like twenty of those and it would be expensive to do that with the Proton. Actually, nevermind I can just sell my car.


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## Perfectionist (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Is it "sad" to be this excited about a new torch ?? !! 

Maybe in the real world - but on CPF its cool I guess !! 

Bryan, how many Protons are you exptecting to arrive in the first shipment ?
And how soon do you expect the full retail package (including holster) to be available ?


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## xochi (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



d1337 said:


> Thank you to ViRen, Brian, and LRI. I can't wait for my pre order to come in. I hope it isn't as good as the Photon because I've bought like twenty of those and it would be expensive to do that with the Proton. Actually, nevermind I can just sell my car.



Good idea! No need for transportation when all the good lights are available for less via mail order!


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## xochi (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I really must also say that when I saw that Viren had received his light I assumed that these were shipping and they held onto the preorder terminology to better relate the non retail packageing situation. Unfortunately, I now understand that they are still waiting to receive the lights from China. That has me worried. No telling when it will arrive or if they are made correctly .

I guess . I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## paulr (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Hmm, 1.25 watts to the leds is still over 200 mw per led, 55 ma at 3.6 volts. I guess that's survivable, assuming they're either somehow independently regulated (sort of possible) or carefully vf matched. I think Tektite ended using separate resistors per led after some premature failures from just wiring the leds in parallel.


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## Ralls (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Wow!

I just stumbled onto this thread and this light will be perfect for EDC'ing! I'm sold primarily on the fact that it has multiple brightness settings and especially the single red led--I'm a pilot and this will be perfect for nighttime cockpit use.

I've been considering the Fenix L2T and IMHO this totally blows it away--at least for my intended use. I've definitely had my reservations about the Fenix and the Proton is the first light that I've really been excited about in a while.

Time to sell some other lights to make room! What a sick, sick hobby!


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## Quickbeam (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

OK, OK, sheesh - PM's, emails... Here's some numbers for you folks to use to compare to the Runtime and Output charts on my site:

Chart Page Link

This is white on HIGH only, raw number & chart comparison number in parenthesis:

L91 Lithium AA:
Throw: 229 (15.13)
Overall: 1650 (16.50)

Rayovac alkaline AA:

Throw: 209 (14.46)
Overall: 1440 (14.40)

Here's the famous (infamous) size comparison shot I use all the time:







The review is still a way off, but I'll try to sneak in the runtimes early.

The only concern I have with this light is the thin threads (and very short threaded area) on the tailcap. It seems to me that they have a strong desire to crossthread, especially since you are working against the force of the side clip to keep the tailcap level while attaching it. There are little aluminum specks everywhere from the force of the clip pressing the threads together as you turn the cap.

Also, the peg that holds the keyring does turn, so it appears to be a rivet.

The options you have available are quite nice and the fact that you can change the light level so easily makes this a very handy EDC-type light.

Without the runtimes, I'm thinking my "first impression" rating would be 4.5... We'll see how it fares after the full review. 

Enjoy!
Doug P.


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## AdamW (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



PhotonLight said:


> *Adding a Lens:* The decision to go without a separate lens was a conscious design decision. Adding any lens to the end of the light would reduce the total light output of the light significantly (at least 10% even with the best lens) while not providing any substantial benefit. The LEDs are already well protected due to being recessed into the honey comb reflector, and since the light is waterproof, if you end up sticking the business end of your Proton in the mud or otherwise end up getting the LEDs dirty, washing them off is a simple matter.
> For those who wish to add a lens anyway, the end of the Proton's head can be unscrewed to allow a lens to be added on top of the honeycomb reflector. There's an o-ring already there for just this purpose.



So: how long until a UCL is available for the Proton?

My guess: not very long!


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## Quickbeam (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Lithium AA runtime is in progress.... I'll try to post it in the AM.

Doug P.


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## jar3ds (May 20, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

thanks doug.. you tha man ...

for some reason I was expecting the output to be in the 15.00's according to your scale... however 1.43 * 16.50 = approx. 23.595 lumens... strange... quite shy of the 50 lumen marker...

pretty similar to the fenix 1xaa though... with less throw which doesn't really bother me since I prefer my EDC to be a balanced projection of light... also, if the proton is able to hold the output longer than the fenix that is something to consider...


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



jar3ds said:


> thanks doug.. you tha man ...
> 
> for some reason I was expecting the output to be in the 15.00's according to your scale... however 1.43 * 16.50 = approx. 21.45 lumens... strange... quite shy of the 50 lumen marker...
> 
> pretty similar to the fenix 1xaa though... with less throw which doesn't really bother me since I prefer my EDC to be a balanced projection of light... also, if the proton is able to hold the output longer than the fenix that is something to consider...



I thought the Arc AAA ran around 60ma and the samples tested by Gransee put out around 7.5 lumens. Even if we drop the number to 6 it should still be around 36 . Either there is a clog somewhere and the light isn't getting to where it can be measured or that particular sample has some crappy LEDs or something is wrong with the multiplier/scale. I suppose the driver may not be functioning properly . Maybe the light isn't turned all the way up ?

also...
1.43 * 16.50 = approx. 21.45
unless there is a subtraction somewhere, we're looking at 23.595


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## jar3ds (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

your calc. is correct mine was wrong... i think i errored when entering it into my calc.

hum... i guess time will tell


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## PhotonLight (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



paulr said:


> Hmm, 1.25 watts to the leds is still over 200 mw per led, 55 ma at 3.6 volts. I guess that's survivable, assuming they're either somehow independently regulated (sort of possible) or carefully vf matched. I think Tektite ended using separate resistors per led after some premature failures from just wiring the leds in parallel.


 
The 1.25 watt figure was an error. As Chanik posted, it should be either 1.4 watts for lithium or 1.2 watts for NiMH. I don't know the actual figure for voltage so I'll let Chanik answer that part. Just in recent posts here I have seen people speculate from 3.2V up to 3.6V. Depending on the actual figure for voltage, that may change the calculation a fair amount.

The Proton does drive the LEDs hard, but not beyond their limits. The Nichia LEDs are pretty tough and do very well under overdriven conditions. I really don't expect any problems with lights coming back with damaged LEDs due to being overdriven, but you can be sure that if anyone ever does have an issue, LRI will stand behind their product with their usual outstanding warranty support.


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## paulr (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Is it feasible to replace the leds?


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## Quickbeam (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Remember folks, the x1.43 calculation to get Lumens is a VERY rough estimate - it may be off by a significant amount! The proton could very well be putting out more... Or the estimate may not apply to the lower end of the scale of outputs. Who knows? I'm not going to take the time to do a complete analysis just now.

The light was turned on to it's maximum when the readings were taken. No doubts in my mind.

Here's the runtime with the included L91. It is an older cell, but still should be good (red top L91) - remember, they have a 10 year shelf life.







I'll get the alkaline runtime going now.

Doug P.


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## paulr (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

How about a subjective ceiling bounce test between the Proton and an L1p?

I want to like the Proton but these numbers aren't too impressive. Apparently lower output than the Fenix, overdriven leds, angry blue color, and worse runtime too. Oh well, numbers aren't everything.


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## Quickbeam (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Angry blue???? This sample has a very slightly bluish center and the rest of the beam is a nice yellowish white. The beam output color overall is nice and works very well in practical use.

When I was looking at the new X1's that use the Nichia CS LEDs, some were very blue and some were a warm yellowish with a bluish center... This beam is similar to or better in color than the best X1's I saw.

The Lightbox is essentially a "ceiling bounce test in a box" - that's what I based it on and how it works. Not perfect, but it gives a pretty good estimate. "Estimate" being the key word here.

Last thing to mention: We CPFers tend to be a very fickle group who like whip ourselves into a frenzy over pre-release items and then get all upset when the product doesn't match out self-induced glamorous perceptions. I'm not trying to be mean here, but that's historically the way it has been, and the way it still is. Take this into consideration as you look at this light and the posts about it.

Sometimes I'm reminded of that commercial for Duracell where two kids are backyard camping and a meteor flies down from space and gets sucked into their flashlight. When they turn it on, it's like someone turned on the Sun and daylight lit the entire back of the house. Hand that same light to a CPFer and they would probably say "good output, but a little less than what I was expecting relative to Einstein's Theory calculations..." 

From what I see, this light is a very good light - lots of illumination options, darn good runtime on a lithium AA relative to the amount of light it's putting out (which is impressive for its size), and well made.

OH, and my APOLOGIES to Viren for the thread hijack - I'll shut up now.


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## Perfectionist (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Very true - nothing is good enough for a CPFer ! 

BUT ..... the lumen level is a complete shock and if true would put me (and no doubt many others) off buying the light .......

LRI do actually claim the Proton puts out over 50 lumens on their website ..... unlike many other manufacturers, I had assumed LRI figures would be accurate !!


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## paulr (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Thanks, I'm looking forward to the alkaline and NiMH runtimes. I use NiMH in my L1p just about all the time and will probably do the same in a Proton if/when I buy one. I could see keeping an L91 as a backup cell but wouldn't want to burn through them in day to day use.


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## Mr. Blue (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

it has about the throw of a Pacific and a smidge less output than an L1P...hmmm


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## Quickbeam (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Alkaline runtime - new Rayovac AA cell. This is the last runtime for the Proton for now. I have to get going on the other review work.


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## jar3ds (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

well i'm not dissapointed... ...

i'm more confused... the logic of having 6, 7lumen 5mm leds makes sense in my head...

however, the fenix 1p claims 46lumens... but is 18 on your lightbox technique... where the proton is 16 and claims 50lumens.. slight diff....

it'll be interesting to see this in action... should'a did 2 day shipping


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## this_is_nascar (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Thanks for the tests. I was hoping for better regulation than what's listed in the charts.


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## leukos (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

After all the tests and meter readings are in and hype has dissipated, I'm sure the Proton will still be considered a very fine AA light.


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## Quickbeam (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Jared - remember the Lightbox gives estimates. Estimates! It's not exact. If they're pretty close in output numbers, they're producing around the same light overall. It's not an exact science.


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## this_is_nascar (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



leukos said:


> After all the tests and meter readings are in and hype has dissipated, I'm sure the Proton will still be considered a very fine AA light.



I agree. I'm really eager to get mine.


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## Perfectionist (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

At 50+ lumens I'd buy 5 for myself and eventually another 50 for birthday and christmas gifts ..... but at less than 25 lumens I'm only gonna buy one from B/S/T  ......

This is pretty confusing as Viren kinda gives the slight impression that he might just like the light a little bit .....


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## ViReN (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Hi,

I have been away for a while.. just returned today... Loads of good news  .. and some bad news too...

Good news is.. the light is excellent in normal working condition....
Bad news is... my cam's CF was corrupted... as i checked them after arival...

I would write and also would be doing runtime tests ... my Light meter is on way...

Quick Beam  no worries.. in fact, I am thinking of putting your review link in my first post too... please post in this consolidated thread 

I am still to go through all these posts... 

ViReN


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## this_is_nascar (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have been away for a while.. just returned today... Loads of good news  .. and some bad news too...
> 
> ...



Wecome back ViReN. I certainly want to hear all the facts of your trip, but more importantly, stats and runtime aside, how did the Proton perform in read world use?


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## onthebeam (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Quickbeam said:


> From what I see, this light is a very good light - lots of illumination options, darn good runtime on a lithium AA relative to the amount of light it's putting out (which is impressive for its size), and well made.



I pay close attention to Doug's reveiews and am a real fan, having bought many lights on his recommendations.

I agree than 1.5 hours on lithium is "darn good runtime."

The AA test of 45 minutes isn't too impressive, though.

Here's hoping that NiMh will emulate the lithium chart.

Unless I don't recall correctly, Doug is negative on lights that don't last at least an hour until the 50% mark. Yet, his test on the Proton shows it only lasts 45 minutes on an alkaline.


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## NewBie (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



PhotonLight said:


> The 1.25 watt figure was an error. As Chanik posted, it should be either 1.4 watts for lithium or 1.2 watts for NiMH. I don't know the actual figure for voltage so I'll let Chanik answer that part. Just in recent posts here I have seen people speculate from 3.2V up to 3.6V. Depending on the actual figure for voltage, that may change the calculation a fair amount.
> 
> The Proton does drive the LEDs hard, but not beyond their limits. The Nichia LEDs are pretty tough and do very well under overdriven conditions. I really don't expect any problems with lights coming back with damaged LEDs due to being overdriven, but you can be sure that if anyone ever does have an issue, LRI will stand behind their product with their usual outstanding warranty support.




Overdriven beyond their limits?

30mA is their Maximum Limit.

http://www.nichia.com/specification/led_lamp/NSPW500CS-E.pdf

So, yes, they are definitely driven **way** beyond even their Absolute Maximum Rating. See datasheet page 1, pdf page 2 top. Also take note that that Absolute Maximum Rating of 30mA is with an Ambient temp (temperature around the LED) of 25C.


As far as the LEDs should put out X lumens each, as compared to Arc AA, consider there are now a cluster of LEDs that are tightly packed, and are vastly overdriven, and the heat from it's neighbor is going to cause it to run even hotter, reducing the light output.

Thats probably where your expected lumens went.

See datasheet page 5 (pdf page 6) , note 5, the warning about heat generation and clustering, and driving them beyond the maximum (30mA).


At least in the ARC AA/AAA lights, Gransee just had one over driven LED, and that he potted it to the Aluminum which was a tight fit around the LED, which aids alot in heat removal. Even though he conducted the heat out, the LED still degraded, or dropped in light output, fairly quickly.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Proton.




ViReN said:


> Beamshot LRI Proton (on Left) KinoBay (on Right) with 1 Fresh AA (proton now has got about 20 - 25 minutes Old battery)



Ah, yes, the blue center of the classic overdriven Nichia. The multiple LEDs blend together (normally blue surrounded by yellow for a single), but you can still see it, even with the blending. Interesting.

Take note, and realize the picture above is after the light has dropped about 25% output too. It will be even more blue on a fresh cell.


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Enough with the "Angry Blue" (this isn't aimed at you Newbie). I'm sick of hearing this term parroted ad nauseum. First, what is angry blue? Red is angry, blue is sad!  Next, there was signifigant blue in the early nichias there *isn't *in the current CO's, in fact there are *yo *bin luxIII's that look alot bluer to me than the nichias, let alone the 5mm mj/smj, yet since the whole beam is tinted blue white and there is nothing to contrast with no one bitches.

Let's put that "angry blue " term to bed, didn't make sense in the first place. 

Clearly, either the integrating sphere that Gransee is testing the Arcs in is totally wrong or the numbers from the light box are totally wrong or the LEDs aren't any good or there is some obstruction to measuring the light from the Proton. Fenix pulled there lumen figures out of there a**, the 50 lumen figure from LRI is possible but on the optimistic side, there really isn't any reason that the Proton shouldn't actually be testing at 40-50 lumens -*in the real world *(if only for a short time)*.* 

Before these numbers which *may* be accurate , but run contrary to what *has been seen and measured in an integrating sphere with the Arc,* do alot of damage to Proton sales (and the PEOPLE that work there) they need some much better verification. Literally, this situation is perplexing because it amounts to someone using a colorimeter to measure the color of the sky and reporting that it is indeed pink! Sometimes the sky *is* pink but only during the odd sunset and *most *of the time it is blue. Something is off kilter here.

Newbie , we understood that heat will effect output but then it should be evident if this is what is happening if the light is measured after leaving it in the freezer for 20 minutes or so.

I have canceled my order for a Proton since it is just too early to tell wether the proton is really worth 63 dollars. I want to make sure they work they way they are supposed too. If it's up to snuff, it will be worh an extra $7. Just an FYI.


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## NewBie (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Quickbeam said:


> Alkaline runtime - new Rayovac AA cell. This is the last runtime for the Proton for now. I have to get going on the other review work.




Is your light broken Quickbeam? 

*Maximum brightness all the way to the end.*
Instead of dimming as the battery loses its strength, the advanced circuitry built into the Proton keeps the light at full brightness until the battery is almost completely dead.
http://www.photonlight.com/products/proton/index.html


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## this_is_nascar (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



NewBie said:


> Is your light broken Quickbeam?
> 
> *Maximum brightness all the way to the end.*
> Instead of dimming as the battery loses its strength, the advanced circuitry built into the Proton keeps the light at full brightness until the battery is almost completely dead.
> http://www.photonlight.com/products/proton/index.html



As I've mentioned above, this is currently my biggest area of concern. This appears to be about as un-regulated as you can get. For the most part, the normal "Joe User" is not going to use an E2, so results such as this with a standard off-the-shelf alkaline is troubling to say the least.


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## NewBie (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



xochi said:


> Enough with the "Angry Blue" (this isn't aimed at you Newbie). I'm sick of hearing this term parroted ad nauseum. First, what is angry blue? Red is angry, blue is sad!  Next, there was signifigant blue in the early nichias there *isn't *in the current CO's, in fact there are *yo *bin luxIII's that look alot bluer to me than the nichias, let alone the 5mm mj/smj, yet since the whole beam is tinted blue white and there is nothing to contrast with no one bitches.
> 
> Let's put that "angry blue " term to bed, didn't make sense in the first place.
> 
> ...




Okay, lets call it weeping blue instead.

There really is a quite a great chance the Proton is in the 25 lumen ballpark, and it doesn't come close to the 50 lumen claim. Especially when you blast these Nichias with current way beyond their Absolute Maximum Ratings, and they shift blue.

See the effects of current overdrive beyond the Absolute Maximum Ratings, and the color shift due to temperature, on page 9 of the pdf (page 8 of the datasheet):
http://www.nichia.com/specification/led_lamp/NSPW500CS-E.pdf

Also check out the loss of output due to overdriviving beyond the maximum limits, as well as loss of output due to temperature, on page 9 of the pdf (page 8 of the datasheet).

20mA = 1 for light output

60mA would equal 3 on a linear scale, but it isn't linear.

But according to the chart, second over from left, on the top, it works out to 2.5.

2.5/3= 0.83 

1 - 0.83 = 17% loss in output.

Looking at the loss in output due to temp chart, there is a good chance you loose another 10% here (or more...)


Remember, Gransee potted his lights, with aluminum in close proximity, which gives it an extra thermal path to dissipate the heat out of the LED. On top of that, he didn't have it surrounded by additional extra heat sources (over driven LEDs). The ARC AA/AAA that you are judging the lumens by, had 1/6th the amount of heat generation in the light, and a robust thermal path.

Unfortunately, the freezer would cause moisture to form on the LED lenses, dropping the measured numbers. 

Is each LED individual in the Proton surrounded by aluminum and then potted to the aluminum with epoxy? If not, the die in the LED would very quickly rise to temp anyhow, rendering the freezer idea, no go.


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

"Weeping Blue" - Much better! So long as a distinction betwee the older nichias is made. I find the tint of certain bins of the new nichias to be great and with my eyes, seem to get better depth and color than with some luxeons.

I'm wondering if the issue isn't one of photon management as well as heat. I understand that the leds have a built in lens but I'm also certain that some losses can be expected depending on just how far they are recessed and obstructed from the side. Based upon the posted images of the bezel , the LEDs appear to be fairly recessed.


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## Quickbeam (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

It's funny... for almost every light I test, someone asks if it was broken, the regulator failed, the LEDs weren't up to snuff, the meter didn't work right, the runtime rig wasn't set up right, there was a plague of locusts, etc.

Folks, I sincerely doubt that anything is wrong with the light or any other part of my testing so far.

Rule #1 is "The default position on any claim is disbelief until credible evidence is presented." as stated in my signature.

I don't believe any of the marketing in the packaging or on the Mfgr's/seller's website until I have found credible evidence supporting the claims via my tests or the tests of other independent sources. 

Now I'm NOT saying anything bad about LRI, but their statement about regulation ("_Instead of dimming as the battery loses its strength, the advanced circuitry built into the Proton keeps the light at full brightness until the battery is almost completely dead._") may be subject to interpretation. What is "full brightness"? How is it defined? More than 50%? More than 25%? Until the eyes notice the output drop? What we would like to think is "full brightness" (100%) may not be the same as what they consider "full brightness" to be.

Let's do everyone a favor and judge this light on its own before comparing the theorizing about it... Time will tell how well it performs and how liked it is. In the meantime, I'm going to be playing with it for the next few weeks and I'll see how it goes. I will tell you this; for a little single AA cell light, it is the most feature packed pocket light I've seen (and the features are USEFUL features, not just a bunch of fluff.)


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## jar3ds (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

dup, sorry


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## jar3ds (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



NewBie said:


> Is your light broken Quickbeam?
> 
> *Maximum brightness all the way to the end.*
> Instead of dimming as the battery loses its strength, the advanced circuitry built into the Proton keeps the light at full brightness until the battery is almost completely dead.
> http://www.photonlight.com/products/proton/index.html



they clearly state on the website that differnet battery types will cause different results... 

i don't really believe a single alk is able to give off perfect regulation unless its not hit very hard by the circuits and LED's... the output we expect a normal alk can't hold up...

i completely expected these results as it relates to the alk's performance

*BTW, theres a 30 day money back guarrentee on the Proton....  *


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## NewBie (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



jar3ds said:


> they clearly state on the website that differnet battery types will cause different results...
> 
> i don't really believe a single alk is able to give off perfect regulation unless its not hit very hard by the circuits and LED's... the output we expect a normal alk can't hold up...
> 
> ...




Even with Lithiums, it isn't regulated.



Quickbeam said:


> I'll get the alkaline runtime going now.
> 
> Doug P.




I realized something, my cpf background of my browser is blue, which throws off the apparent colors in photos. So I surrounded Viren's beamshot with white:


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Quickbeam, for the most part I agree that the ultimate test of the value of a light is real world usefullness and just how much better the light meets our needs than current solutions. The issue here is not just the unreliability of manufacturer claims, the " Proton Developement Saga (I and II)" has been packed with drama that has generated excitement based on the project goals of LRI. Part one and the claims couldn't be met so , back to the drawing board and it's dissapointing but impressive that they are really trying to meet the claims (or come close at least). 

Part two, and things look good on paper and sound reasonable but apparently things just might not pan out according to plan. The light gets realeased and the adjusted initial claims are still there but the light falls far short. So is the conclusion that initially, LRI was trying to live up to the "Plan" and give the people what they had promoted and then later realized, that it was just unrealistic and gradiose claims sell lights so eff the people, we gotta get _something_ to market or we're going broke? 

The visual difference between 25 and 50 lumens isn't huge so the published performance and actual performance difference doesn't matter _that _much in real world use. *Then why not just use a luxeon?* I mean, they are getting alot of flak for going with nichias on account of the tint and the price of a chinese made light but they say, well, we'll get much better performance from a nichia array . But have they? Relatively speaking the difference between 20 and 25 lumens is nothing compared to 25 and 50 . Did they manage to get a much greater runtime? 

I really don't know but I'm curious to know (*Newbie?) *if considering everything , especially 25 ish lumen performance of the array ,


*What was gained by using a nichia array over a high flux led?*


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## jar3ds (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Interesting note on the PT Quad headlamp review on Quickbeams site... for 4 nichia LED's the overall light rating is 20... thats with 4 LED's... which works out to be ROUGHly 28 lumens...

Add a theoretical 2 more LED's... thats a rating of 30... which makes it 43 lumens...

i'll find it VERY sad that when i get my Proton that it isn't as bright as my quad with two more LED's... go figure.


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## BentHeadTX (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

  

As "modder fodder" the Proton would not be worth purchasing since the "regulation" is not what I would call flat. Really a shame, if it more solidly regulated...I have a UWAJ LuxIII coming in that would of been a great match.

Overdriven Nichias are not my style although on alkalines, they are not overdriven for too long. 

Already have a Pacific AAA with the same throw as the Proton and a stock Fenix L1P which has the same output. 

The threads on the tail cap are thin and there are not a lot of them. Not the thing to have for an EDC with frequent battery changes. 

Have a UWAJ LuxeonIII making it's way over the ocean that will end up in a MillerMods L1P. I prefer to underdrive a U bin LuxIII (490mA) and get serious output than way overdrive a bunch of Nichias to get much less output. Read the review on Sanyo 2700mAH NiMH AA cells and they will output 2513mAH at the 2 amp drive level. My MM L1P pulls 1700 to 1720mA which equates to 1 hour and 28 minute runtime to 1.00 volts. Higher output with the same runtime running NiMH as a Proton on lithium AA cells. 

From what I have seen so far, my Fire~Fly III, MillerMods L1P UWAJ (two-stage switch) and Peak Pacific have absolutely nothing to fear from the Proton. The thing that really, really annoys the hell out of me is that LRI has been working on the Proton for 16 MONTHS! Gee, regulation, heat sinking and robust construction should of been solved in month one... for now, I'll pass on flashlight bling and keep putting my small single cell lights through hell. 

Now to wait for the Proton II


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## ViReN (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Easy Newbie 
Quoting from the other thread... 



NewBie said:


> 1.4W to the six white LED array, means 1.4W/6=0.23 W per LED, which means 0.23W/3.2V= 71.875 mA per LED.
> 
> Thats over a 3x overdrive of a 20mA rated LED.
> 
> ...



Just one question, when you calculate the Current... from miliWatts... how can Vf be so low (3.2V)?

I just checked jtr1962's thread on his great LED Testing... and for Nichia CS LED's 

I may be wrong.. but ... it appears that for .23 Watts, the current would be around 62 - 64 mA and the Vf would be in the range of around 3.57-3.58

chimo has done test's and proved that LED will easily sustain 60 mA continiously run for more than 24 hours i beleve... 

so 2 - 4 mA more than that wont be much of an overdrive.. to kill the LED's

(following data is taken and posted without permission from jtr1962 from the LED testing thread's sheet)... will remove if it is inappropriate...





------------------------------------------------------
*The Trip Experience*

The real world performance of light is just superb... The best and most used feature is dimmability.... and the Red LED for night vision ... 

on my trip I had taken Kinobay (on Li-Ion... around 1.1 A to LED in DD mode, used when brutal power was required) , Fenix L2P (on Alkalines, backup), McKinley (on standard Lithium, used this light as backup) and Proton (NiMH Rechargables)... The most used light (for closeup) .. for walking around.. moving around... etc... and for "Area Light" purposes... 

I wish I could write more.. but i am at this moment tired... will write more in morning... also take beamshot comparisons as some of you have requested tomorow....


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## Perfectionist (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Holy Crap !!! Looks like the Proton actually isn't going to be worth the wait 

Regulation = err what Regulation !
Super Bright = Super Average !
Sweet Tint = Sour Tint !
Long Runtime = Long Runtime on Low Power !

Well, at least its got that Glow In The Dark stuff .....


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## NewBie (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> Easy Newbie
> I may be wrong.. but ... it appears that for .23 Watts, the current would be around 62 - 64 mA and the Vf would be in the range of around 3.57-3.58
> 
> chimo has done test's and proved that LED will easily sustain 60 mA continiously run for more than 24 hours i beleve...
> ...




Swell, so we are looking at 62-64mA, which is still a pretty nasty overdrive.

24 hours is all you expect? For a light in this price range, I'd expect it to be much longer lasting. 

Keep in mind, that it is unlikely Chimo tested the LEDs with additional LEDs around it, clustering and confining the heat in a very small space.

This would greatly accellerate the lumen depreciation alot.

Now toss in the additional heat contributed by the converter into that same small space.

Bad, Bad, and even more BAD.

Remember, lumen depreciation is both a contribution of heat and current. Chimo's tests would have what, 1/6th the amount of heat in that small area...and he didn't have the additional heat of the converter.

I don't recall, but Chimo may have even done his test in open air, which could likely very well result in further extra cooling that wouldn't occur in this light.

Thank you for bringing up Chimo's testing, I didn't realize how bad things might actually be.


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## Mr. Blue (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

ummm.
don't you think LRI would have done some testing before bringing to market?
doesn't Peak use overdriven clustered led arrays without issue?



that said, the numbers from Doug don't thrill me...hoping for more throw.

looking forward to virens real world impressions.


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Mr. Blue said:


> ummm.
> don't you think LRI would have done some testing before bringing to market?
> doesn't Peak use overdriven clustered led arrays without issue?
> 
> ...



There is no mystery about how leds degrade in high heat/current conditions. The nichias are more tolerant than the LEDs that Peak uses (much more, IIRC) but there is degradation. Peak, like Arc, has a substantial path for heat to escape with a potted driver/led setup. 

There isn't any doubt that the leds will degrade, if LRI did testing then they are aware of that. The situation is just that, these days, how much use will an LED light really get before it is set aside for something new and improved? Most likely only a very small percentage of users will use the light enough before thinking "Damn, I just _know_ this light used to be brighter. I think it must be crapping out on me. I'll call LRI and have it replaced." 

It's a numbers game of pushing the leds to the point where they seem better than other lights long enough to keep people convinced that a light is reliable.


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## planex (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I still think the Proton has the potential to be a very good light. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but the fact that the Proton is likely much less than 50 lumens doesn't really bother me. Okay, maybe the fact that it is advertised at 50 lumens or greater does bug me, but even if it turns out to be about 20 lumens with a NiMH cell I will be okay with that. For a small EDC light I don't need maximum brightness. In fact, I will probably run the light most of the time at a dimmer setting. That is the Protons greatest advantage. Then, all the overdrive and heat issues go away. I guess it just depends on how you plan to use the light.


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## Mr. Blue (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



xochi said:


> It's a numbers game of pushing the leds to the point where they seem better than other lights long enough to keep people convinced that a light is reliable.




interesting point...so do you have one ordered?


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## The_LED_Museum (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I used the Proton a short time ago for ~5 minutes, and I took note that the temperature of the bezel rose approximately 15°F during that time. My noncontact thermometer is currently not at my disposal, so I was not able to measure "before" and "after" temperatures.


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## chimo (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



NewBie said:


> Keep in mind, that it is unlikely Chimo tested the LEDs with additional LEDs around it, clustering and confining the heat in a very small space.
> 
> Remember, lumen depreciation is both a contribution of heat and current. Chimo's tests would have what, 1/6th the amount of heat in that small area...and he didn't have the additional heat of the converter.
> 
> ...



Hi guys, the tests were done in open air with a single LED powered from a seperate power supply. The leads were left full length and they passed through an insulating block (to keep the assembly rigid for the several day tests). My shop is in the basement, so the ambient was probably around 18-20 degC. 

The Nichias are good, but not bullet-proof and are limited by the 5mm package. 

Hope this helps the discussion.  

Paul


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Mr. Blue said:


> interesting point...so do you have one ordered?



I did. I was even willing to keep the order after reading Quickbeams initial posts but once the runtimes showed up and the regulation was found to be very lacking, the poorly done threads on the tailcap and Newbie's convincing argument that the numbers were pretty much in line with the design, I sent an email canceling my order and requesting a refund. 

I really wanted the Proton to be all that it promised . But I had to face reality that most likely it isn't and 63.00 is about 50 dollars too much for a light made in China.


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## owenbright (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Outputting less than 50 lumens is not a problem, but the combination of that and the short runtime is dissapointing.


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



planex said:


> I still think the Proton has the potential to be a very good light. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this, but the fact that the Proton is likely much less than 50 lumens doesn't really bother me. Okay, maybe the fact that it is advertised at 50 lumens or greater does bug me, but even if it turns out to be about 20 lumens with a NiMH cell I will be okay with that. For a small EDC light I don't need maximum brightness. In fact, I will probably run the light most of the time at a dimmer setting. That is the Protons greatest advantage. Then, all the overdrive and heat issues go away. I guess it just depends on how you plan to use the light.



But then, if you mod, why not just buy one of the 20 dollar 1aa clones (actually I think they can be had for 18.99) , a flupic and a li-ion 14500. Granted, you don't have the battery flexibility but it'll be brighter, whiter, dimmable , you'll save a little dough and you can say " Look Mom, Isn't the light I made cool" and she'll say " Oh, that's nice dear." 

If you don't mod , this would be a very simple and satisfying project to start on and the mom stuff wasn't meant at you , but at all people with moms who mod and show their moms (like me) :laughing:. And I'm 35....


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



owenbright said:


> Outputting less than 50 lumens is not a problem, but the combination of that and the short runtime is dissapointing.




*Don't forget that the decision to use a 5mm array instead of a high flux led was done because it was supposed to provide more light for longer at the expense of tint. Is there any benefit to the 5mm array over a lux?*


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## The_LED_Museum (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

The tint of the white LEDs is a bit unusual, but it's not what I'd call "truly yucky".

It just *MIGHT* be enough to prevent the product from earning a full five-star rating on my website, but *JUST BARELY* in my opinion. Actually, this would be the very first time any product would be prevented from earning my maximum rating just due to the tint of its white LEDs. :sick2:  :sick2:


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## this_is_nascar (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Well, I guess it's a bit unfair totally throwing the Photon out the window prior to actually having one in hand. From what I can tell, only (3) of them are out there. (ViReN, Quickbeam and LED Museum)

Like others have mentioned, I take what others say with a bit of caution, mostly because we have have different opinions as to what is "good" or "not so good" in a particular light. I will patiently wait for my (2) units to arrive. However, you can't easily neglect the numbers. Assuming Quickbeam recieved a "normal" Photon, I just can't understand or appreciate those runtime numbers. They are not promising at all. Right now, I don't care about brightness. Regulation is what worries me at this point.


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## PhotonLight (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

As I understand it, the chemistry of alkaline batteries really isn't capable of putting out the kind of power the Proton needs for any length of time. Alkaline just doesn't perform well under high current draws. That's exactly why you see all the ads recommending NiMH for things like digital cameras and such over alkaline. NiMH & Lithium, on the other hand, are actually capable of sustaining high current draws. I haven't had a chance to do any run-time tests myself for the Proton with different batteries, but based on my experience using the Fusion with both lithium & NiMH batteries, the run-time results Quickbeam has posted so far don't come as a complete surprise. 

[edited for clarification]

[edited again: sorry, my speculation re: lithium regulation was completely off-base here].


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## this_is_nascar (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



PhotonLight said:


> The chemistry of alkaline batteries really isn't capable of putting out the kind of power the Proton needs for any length of time. They just don't perform well under high current draws. That's exactly why you see all the ads recommending NiMH for things like digital cameras and such over alkaline. NiMH & Lithium are actually capable of sustaining high current draws. I haven't had a chance to do any run-time tests myself for the Proton with different batteries, but based on the experiments I have done using the Fusion with different battery types, the run-time results Quickbeam has posted so far don't come as a complete surprise. The higher voltage of the lithium is going to put it above the regulation point for much of its life. I expect the NiMH results will show the effects of the regulation much better.



That makes no sense to me whatsoever. I'd almost bet $$$ that the regulation seen with the lithium (if you choose to call it regulation) will not be more flat-lined with the NiMH.


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## Quickbeam (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Perhaps I'm missing something re: the "angry blue" some folks claim to see... If I compare the tint output of the Proton with the tint of the new X1 (Nichia CS) and the new Photon (Nichia CS) it looks the same. Slightly bluish center, yellowish outer corona and spillbeam. In practical use (non- white wall testing) it looks great! Much better color rendition than the typical blue tinted white LEDs from Nichia...

Another tip re: photos people publish... If you're not familiar with photographic "white balance", please look it up - some cameras have a really rough time with LED light and can't white balance properly since many are made to balance against sunlight, fluorescent, and incandescent only. I've had gorgeous white Luxeons photograph green and the typical bluish tint 5mm LEDs (NOT overdriven) photograph horribly bluish. Don't believe everything you think you see in the beam photos...

@ Craig - the only persistent issue I really have is with the tailcap threads and the very short threaded area. I'm concerned about durablility. I did figure out how to remove the clip and it came with a space-filling blank, so the pressure from the clip won't cause premature wear on the threads by forcing the tailcap to be screwed in at a slight angle.

For a single AA cell light I think it's a very good light. There's only so much you can do with a single AA cell due to its power capacity limits so I expeced a short run with alkaline. I expect most folks, like Viren, will use the lower output levels more than anything... I consider the highest output is more of a "turbo" mode, while the dimmer modes are more appropriate for its power source. It almost seems to me that people have set the wrong expectations for this light.

Perhaps this is the best question to ask: "What did you primarily expect it would be used for?" The answer is what drove the design.

My answer, based on it's qualities, would be; "A personal pocket light appropriate for general tasks and extreme low light usage scenarios with a lot of signaling and output options. Able to produce a lot of light if needed, but intended for use with the lower output levels. Appropriate as a personal light for every day carry and camping, hiking, other outdoor sports, and low-light military/civilian services use." 

This is what I see it being used for based on the design characteristics I'm seeing.

:shrug:


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## loalight (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



this_is_nascar said:


> Well, I guess it's a bit unfair totally throwing the Photon out the window prior to actually having one in hand.



Hear hear. Armchair quarterbacking holds less weight than real-world reviews, imo. I'll believe the words of those who have used it, and I look forward to more.



newbie said:


> Bad, Bad, and even more BAD.


I have another light or two that NewBie has trashed, and they have performed exceedingly well over the short and long term. Grains of salt may be in order, as always.


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## Perfectionist (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Is this the CPF forums or have I stumbled into a differant one by accident ..... 

I can't believe people are actually saying they are not too bothered about the brightness !!!

Also, does any CPFer worth his salt actually use Alkalines as a primary power source ??

Rechargables and Lithiums are all I use ..... the fact that a light can also run on Alks (for a while anyway!) is more of a bonus than an essential feature .....

Dang it, the reason this baby got me all excited was that it was supposed to be an almost "perfect" EDC flashlight !!

If it ain't super bright (for an AA) and has crappy runtimes (on Nimh) and little if any regulation ...... than it better be cheaper than a Fenix !!

I'm still hoping (praying!) that the review lights sent out are faulty prototypes !!

PS - Couldn't care less if the LED's are overdriven so hard that their 100,000 hour lifespan is reduced by even 90% ..... 5-10 thousand hours use is plenty FFS !!


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## Mr. Blue (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

curiously, my L1P's put out more for longer on a lithium AA...and soon the L1P will at least have a low mode.....(politics aside)


be that as it may, I have 2 Protons on order as well.


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## xochi (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Quickbeam, I totally agree reguarding the tint of nichias but as for expectations, they were set by LRI. It would really be fine if one could say that the claims made were just overly optimistic or best case scenario but they apparently fall massively short of even considering them that way. Readjusting expectations based on how one might use the light would be fine if LRI didn't mind if we adjust the price accordingly. LRI is asking alot for a chinese made light using a nichia array. At this point, the only signifigant advantage I can see for the use of nichias are benefits for LRI , better quantity discounts on the LEDs and maybe it's cheaper to build with nichias than luxeons. 

*Are there really any benefits over a luxeon to using the nichia array? Clearly tint is a disadvantage, can anyone say if there is a brightness or runtime benefit?

*


Perfectionist said:


> PS - Couldn't care less if the LED's are overdriven so hard that their 100,000 hour lifespan is reduced by even 90% ..... 5-10 thousand hours use is plenty FFS !!



Good point! I feel pretty much the same way. What is FFS?


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## NewBie (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Perfectionist said:


> I can't believe people are actually saying they are not too bothered about the brightness !!!
> 
> 
> PS - Couldn't care less if the LED's are overdriven so hard that their 100,000 hour lifespan is reduced by even 90% ..... 5-10 thousand hours use is plenty FFS !!



The Nichia 5mm LED is definitely not a 100,000 hour lifetime LED. Nichia has never claimed that. At 20mA and being held below 50C, it is in the ~3,000 hours to 53% output, according to the data I have.

The loss in output over time is 4x greater, just from 10mA to 20mA. At 60mA, it would be quite a bit worse.

At higher currents with heat buildup present, I've seen lifetimes well under 100 hours on Nichia 5mm LEDs.

Remember, Chimo had his LED open and exposed to the air which helps heatsinking. He also had the full lead length, which aids alot in heatsinking. He also used a separate power supply which further reduces heat build up.

ARC and Peak pot their LEDs to the near by aluminum, to aid in heat removal from the LED.

Is the Proton Potted?


FYI, the Luxeon I and the Nichia Jupiter, when the current is kept below 350mA, and are not allowed to get to hot, are claimed to have lifetimes of 100,000 hours. But those are Power LEDs.

Notice how the 5mm white LED's lifetime drops to 900 hours, to 70% output (most common definition of lifetime, for LEDs) when ran at only 40mA, top of page 4:
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/solidstate/pdf/narendranSPIE2005.pdf

If kept nice and cool, and you keep the current down at 20mA, the lifetime of the 5mm LED is greatly enhanced:






You can see the results of Chimo's life testing at 60mA, with the coverter heat not present, with the full LED lead length, and tested in open air to aid cooling, and without an array of other overdriven closely spaced 5mm LEDs here (15% drop in output at only 192 hours, which could be much worse in a flashlight, especially if it wasn't potted):
http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5mmnichiacsculumenmaintat60ma4.jpg


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## adirondackdestroyer (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Well I must admit I am very disapointed. :thumbsdow Less power than my L1P and worse runtime on high as well. I was expecting around 30 lumens if not a little more, and in reality it is around 20. I really wanted this light to be everything it was cracked up to be, but man it fell short.


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## aceo07 (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I'm curious to see the Fenix L1T review and how it compares to the Proton. The Fenix L1P seems to already have the Proton beat on output and runtime. The L1T will have high/low output modes and should be cheaper than the Proton.


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## ViReN (May 21, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I have measured current draw at full blast ... here are the results.... 
Lithium Cell ... V = 1.72V; I = 1.41A
Alkaline Cell... V = 1.64V; I = 1.32A
NiMH Cell ..... V = 1.40V; I = 1.15A

Voltages are measured across the battery in NO LOAD condition, all cells were FRESH.

For the Run Times.... QuickBeam ..... i wonder why Lithium cell performed so badly... (may be more current draw?)
For the output... in Lumens.... I wonder again... why the numbers are showing low... because, if Arc AAA can run on 50 mA and produce 7 Lumens.... 6 times that should be around 42 .... and since Proton is running LED's around 60 mA how can the output be less than 42 Lumens in _Any Case_? .. that too when both are running same LED's .... I mean... I cannot see the Logic here... Fenix Claims 42.. and Has 17-18 Lumens in reality.... ... Proton didnt actually claim any Lumens.. but I believe it is certainly more than 42 Lumens for sure... 



this_is_nascar said:


> Well, I guess it's a bit unfair totally throwing the Photon out the window prior to actually having one in hand. From what I can tell, only (3) of them are out there. (ViReN, Quickbeam and LED Museum)
> <snip>



I agree with you TIN.... just 3 of us... perhaps when more people actually have the light will do some justice...

If Lithium battery is 3000 mAH then the light should last 2+ hours on Lithium.... with a _continious current_ draw of 1.41 amp


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## ViReN (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Quickbeam said:


> Perhaps I'm missing something re: the "angry blue" some folks claim to see... _*If I compare the tint output of the Proton with the tint of the new X1 (Nichia CS) and the new Photon (Nichia CS) it looks the same.*_ Slightly bluish center, yellowish outer corona and spillbeam. *In practical use (non- white wall testing) it looks great! Much better color rendition than the typical blue tinted white LEDs from Nichia...*
> 
> Another tip re: photos people publish... If you're not familiar with photographic "white balance", please look it up - s_*ome cameras have a really rough time with LED light and can't white balance properly since many are made to balance against sunlight, fluorescent, and incandescent only.*_ I've had gorgeous white Luxeons photograph green and the typical bluish tint 5mm LEDs (NOT overdriven) photograph horribly bluish. Don't believe everything you think you see in the beam photos...
> 
> ...



The Bold statements are sooo true... I cant agree more....

The beamshot is all crapped.. because... the XO tint of KinoBay looks like YELLOW.... and that 'purple-blue' is not actually that blue .... ... 

On my trip.. I used this light MOST because it has the dimmability... and I can tune down brightness to the level required... also true that i didnt use the light in Full Blast more... as much as i used the lower levels...

(for full blast.. I had KinoBay over-Driven at 1.1A on a Li-Ion)

I too believe that Guys have a totally different expectations..... 

for me.. _the Light is Superb_.... and has now become a EDC of preference... especially because of it's Utility ... and that uses AA battery.... McKinley will now be a Backup EDC with Lithium Battery (10 Years battery shelf life) is best suited for backup...


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## PhotonLight (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Quickbeam said:


> @ Craig - the only persistent issue I really have is with the tailcap threads and the very short threaded area. I'm concerned about durablility. I did figure out how to remove the clip and it came with a space-filling blank, so the pressure from the clip won't cause premature wear on the threads by forcing the tailcap to be screwed in at a slight angle.


 
Looking at mine, the belt clip doesn't (quite) actually touch the body of the light, and doesn't seem to interfere with screwing the tailcap back in. I think I may recall it pressing against the body slightly the first couple of times I removed the tailcap though, but I have been carrying it around the last few days clipped in my pocket so perhaps it has relaxed slightly from the use. It's now "loose" enough that I can slip a piece of paper between the clip and the body of the light. FWIW, I haven't seen any shavings of metal on the threads either. Could it be just a slight difference in the angle of bend on the clip between the two samples?

BTW, all this talk of run times has got my curiosity up and I am now doing a very unscientific run-time test myself on a fresh lithium AA. With no meter to measure actual output it will obviously be pretty subjective but will at least be another data point.


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## NewBie (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> I have measured current draw at full blast ... here are the results....
> Lithium Cell ... V = 1.72V; I = 1.41A
> Alkaline Cell... V = 1.64V; I = 1.32A
> NiMH Cell ..... V = 1.40V; I = 1.15A
> ...




Like I said before, note that the ARC is potted to the aluminum right next to one LED, and the heat from the converter is much less, plus it doesn't have the additional heat of five LED right next to it.

That would pretty much goes a very long way towards explaining the lack of output on high, of the Proton.


Chimo, I found an LRI paper that pretty much replicates your 192 hour to 85% output results, but the loss of output is 2x of your results, 30% loss of light in about 220 hours.

In both cases, if things weren't thermally managed as well (short leads, lack of potting, additional LEDs around it, additional heat from the converter, the life would be even shorter.

Check it out here Chimo pdf page 20, document page 19, Figure 8:
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/solidstate/pdf/narendran2004_jcrystalgrowth.pdf


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## Stainless (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Where are these made - USA or China?


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## paulr (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

If the Proton is intended to be mostly used at the lower levels, with the top level a "turbo" mode, then maybe it should turn on at a low level when you press the button, instead of coming on full turbo. As for expectations, I think they were set when the light was first described as a 60 lumen light with 4 hours of runtime way back when.


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## chimo (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Newbie, great link (I saved a copy). I took a *really* quick look at it. They are using Nichia samples from a 2003 batch (perhaps they have improved the phosphor since then). It also looks like they have them clustered and at a higher ambient (35C) which would contribute to the more rapid output drop (like as in a flashlight head).


For many on this forum, this whole thing will not be a big issue - most have so many flashlights that even if they timeshared they would not rack up enough hours to perceive much of a significant output drop.  

However, this is an interesting topic that deserves discussion.

Paul


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## ViReN (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



NewBie said:


> Is the Proton Potted?



I just checked, Opened the front bezel, and YES I did find the potting with Silicone like material doped with Glow Grannules. all the 7 LED's *are* potted.... 

also noted that the Bezel does get warm .... so heat is definately being conducted...


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## jar3ds (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

heh, this thread was so exciting and now its so depressing 

if the max white is considered burst.... i would expect it to be at least 40-ish lumens... but if burst is considered 25 lumens... thats pretty sad....

i still have one on order and i'll have to give it a fair look... if it fails my expectations i'll return it for a refund within 30 days...

my PT quad's nichia LED's have a VERY nice tint... at least to me... if your white wall searching... you'll see some SLIGHT yellow/blue but it isn't bad at all... 

again i'm going to be quite sad if my quad is brighter than the Proton even though the proton has 2 more LEDs


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## NewBie (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> I just checked, Opened the front bezel, and YES I did find the potting with Silicone like material doped with Glow Grannules. all the 7 LED's *are* potted....
> 
> also noted that the Bezel does get warm .... so heat is definately being conducted...




Unfortunately, silicone (RTV) is a really a very poor heat conductor, it serves more as an insulator.

Darn.


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## carrot (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



chimo said:


> For many on this forum, this whole thing will not be a big issue - most have so many flashlights that even if they timeshared they would not rack up enough hours to perceive much of a significant output drop.


+1

That's exactly what I started thinking. Even if the light is so badly overdriven, I figure I'll never see a significant drop in output with my kind of usage. 

Besides, the Proton sounds too freaking cool to miss out on just because the LEDs are overdriven... plenty of people love the Arc-AAA even though it overdrives the LEDs... why not give the Proton a chance for that kind of love as well? LEDs are cheap; you should be able to easily replace them anyway. Imagine all the neat things you could do -- if you like to play with UV, replace the red LED with UV; if you like walking around with green light, pop green LEDs in place of the whites, and put a white in the center for color rendition. Plenty of possibilities. The Proton has some serious potential, given its versatility, and other "innovative" and "revolutionary" (are they really?) lights before it have been criticized, only to become among the most talked about lights on CPF. (The A2 comes to mind, but it's certainly not the only one... How about that E2?)

The negative comments on this light are outrageous, considering most of us haven't had the chance to actually try it out. All this criticism is based on paper figures and speculation. Sure, it may have "technical" flaws, but it may turn out to be perfect for real-world usage. ViReN certainly thinks so. I say give the thing a chance before putting it down. LRI brought us the Photon lights, so they must know _something_.


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## jar3ds (May 22, 2006)

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carrot said:


> +1
> 
> That's exactly what I started thinking. Even if the light is so badly overdriven, I figure I'll never see a significant drop in output with my kind of usage.
> 
> ...


 well i see what your saying... but for me an EDC is an emergency light... i trust my life to my lights to make sure they work when i need them... if i'm deployed to Iraq, i can't change my LED's very easily...

hum... regardless if we have a change to try it out... the fact remains that the numbers now are showing that the LED's may not last long... and thats something that personal experience with the light won't change...


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## ViReN (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

jar3ds: if i put myself in your shoes, probably, i would be using multiple lights... 

Still as a casual user, i usually carry 3-4 lights 
*2 of them are on keychain *
1-Photon Freedom Max (as backup with CR2032 ... Looooooooong Runtime with decent comparitive Brightness) and 
2-Photon X-Light Micro (Primary Keychain Light) ... 

*and 2 as EDC*
3-Proton My New EDC.... and 
4-Peak's McKinley (Tried, Trusted and tested, with Lithium Primary) as a backup light.

For the Proton and Photon's I Enjoy the dimmability and features
For McKinley.. I Enjoy Simplicity

For Whole of the Trip, the most used light was Proton, because of it's features... also note that in real world use the CRI was also higher (it felt better to eyes) especially when looking at the green things... and Red's were also highlighted 

the Nichia LED's will render picture with greater vibrance as compared with Luxeons...

....comparitively with Luxeon, still to some extent the Red's in vision are missing... red appears as 'pink'....

Yes, Its also desirable to have a S Bin Luxeon I running at around 1.2 watts in Proton

... I am really very happy with Proton... user experience in real world situations is just superb....


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## jar3ds (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

i agree Viren.... i need mult. lights.... and i will bring mult with me... however, i have been looking for a 1xAA light that is as reliable as my HDS with similar options without sacrificing too much on output...

i was hoping the Proton would be the perfect EDC in 1xAA form... 

Viren.... i'm just baffled by the output numbers by Doug... how does it compare to the Fenix in a real life comparision?

Thanks


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## leukos (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Quickbeam, I wonder if you might get different results in regulation if you backed down the Photon one brightness setting or so. If the highest is some kind of burst mode, maybe the other levels are regulated?


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## jar3ds (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



leukos said:


> Quickbeam, I wonder if you might get different results in regulation if you backed down the Photon one brightness setting or so. If the highest is some kind of burst mode, maybe the other levels are regulated?



good thought


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## TrueBlue (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

It would be in everyone’s best interest to have a good sampling of lights in hand before complaining about the Proton light. The company insists their specs are true. 60 lumens with alkaline and 71 lumens with a lithium battery for 45 minutes. Is that right? That is impressive if the claim is true.

Give LRI the benefit of the doubt by actually getting a light to the general public. Give them a chance to make good their specifications. The truth will be known once enough lights are in buyer’s hands. The specs are either right or wrong and when enough of the long awaited light arrives we can test. A sampling from three preferred customers is a poor sampling.

Perhaps the production lights have ‘black magic’ emitters that the early adopter owners do not have. I hope it would be true. Because of the extended announcement to a future sales date there has to be refinement in the Proton light or the light will seriously be outdated.

I’m waiting for my Proton lights like others are doing. In the timeframe of the Proton announcement, some of us designed, made and distributed a run of AA powered lights. Heck, we made the KI-B multi-voltage, multi-barrel lights too. We made variations of lights- KI-T, KI-Crystal, KI-Splash Special lights with multifunction, MJLED emitters, PR based SMJLED emitters and more. The Solitaire drop-ins are almost ready, delayed, but refined to be better then the prototypes. These projects were all done within the Proton announcement timeframe. Even with delays our projects still beat the Proton. We are not a company but just hobbyists. I see the Proton as, well, never mind that now.

I will try to be open-minded when I get my Proton light. If the light is 60 lumens on an alkaline and 71 lumens with a lithium battery then I’ll know really quick. So far, the run time and regulation do not look good. Longevity of the cluster of LED emitters has yet to be proven.

A poorer example then a bad light is complaining before you get your light. Simply don’t buy the light. Caveat Emptor… buy at your own risk. I took a risk and put my money on the table and will get to see later. I’m hoping not a lot later.


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## jar3ds (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

their claim is 50 lumens for 1.5 hours with a Lithium AA...

the runtime graphs don't bother me at all... I just want it to start @ 50 or so lumens... i don't really care or expect HDS style regulation...

"With over 50 lumens of light ouput at full power*, the Proton is among the brightest single-AA flashlights on the market. A single AA battery will power the Proton for approximately 1.5 hours at full power or up to 250 hours at reduced brightness."

@

http://www.photonlight.com/products/proton/index.html


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## NewBie (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



carrot said:


> +1
> 
> That's exactly what I started thinking. Even if the light is so badly overdriven, I figure I'll never see a significant drop in output with my kind of usage.
> 
> ...




You can genuflect, gyrate, and make excuses all you want, but that will not change reality.

It is not just based on paper figures and speculation, but the reality of the stated of the technology of a 5mm LED. Testing data backs it up. Anyone that wants to read back, can easily check out the information, from multiple sources, like the Lighting Research Institute and even our own Chimo, who has conducted his own tests of the latest Nichia CS 5mm LEDs.

Quickbeam's testing shows it isn't comming close to anything like 60-70 lumens, but less than half that number. From his post, the data that was provided:

L91 Lithium AA:
Throw: 229 (15.13)
Overall: 1650 (16.50)

Rayovac alkaline AA:

Throw: 209 (14.46)
Overall: 1440 (14.40)


If this was a thirty dollar light, that used a long lasting Luxeon, Nichia Jupiter, or OSRAM Golden Dragon, that would be one thing. But it isn't. It is using low cost *highly* overdriven Nichia 5mm LEDs that for six of them, add up to 1.80 dollars in low volumes. Of course, these are at least a year old numbers, so the prices may have dropped further now. No matter how you stack it, they ain't gonna last all that long, in this overdriven condition. Though it does maximize the profit margin.

Now, for the person that uses his light an hour a month, or who primarily put their lights on the shelf for show, this would be just fine, and they'd get at least a few years out of the light.

For serious users who burn through a cell a night, this probably isn't going to be the wisest choice for a light.

Personally, at 70 dollars a pop, I would have expected much more from a light like this. Especially with the state of things in the marketplace at this current time.

There are several lights now, that are roughly half the price, without the various short commings, and which are not abusing the LEDs way beyond the Absolute Maximum Ratings from manufacturer of the LED. A good example of one of these, would be the Fenix.

Comparing the output numbers of the Fenix with Quickbeam's same appartus:

Throw: 650 (25.50)
Overall: 1800 (18.00)

Take a look again at the Proton's numbers above.

With the output of the Fenix, in the 25 lumen range, it is pretty clear the Proton's output is even less (Quickbeam's Overall number), falling far short of the manufacturer's claims. A simple test at testing facilities around the nation, and even right here in Oregon, where LRI is located, would quickly verify things.

Hopefully, they will at least address the problem with the threads grinding and making aluminum particles that Quickbeam mentioned, and was concerned about.


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## javafool (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I have been following this thread and have a couple of questions:

Where does the 3.x Volts come from when using a 1.5V battery? Is everyone sure that they amplify the voltage to the LEDs that high?

We have heard that it is a PWM circuit. Doesn't PWM basically just turn the LEDs on and off quickly and vary the on time to dim the light? The run-time curves look more like straight PWM than regulated voltages or current to me.

Just some questions from a mechanical type of guy.


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## The_LED_Museum (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

There's a boost circuit in the Proton to boost the 1.5 volts from the AA cell to the ~3.6 volts needed by the white LEDs.

The PWM circuit does indeed "strobe" the LEDs quickly to achieve dimming functions.


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## ViReN (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

More Beamshots...

Proton on with fresh Lithium Left.. and L2P with Fresh Lithium & Dummy AA







Proton on with fresh Lithium Left.. and L2P with 2 Fresh Lithiums 





I will be taking more beamshots and when my light meter arrives, i would also do runtime tests ....


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## paulr (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Viren, could you pick one of the manual white balance settings in your camera and stay with it, and also shoot at the same exposure for all shots. It looks like you're using auto white balance which is showing different color from one shot to another, and autoexposure, with similar effect.


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## javafool (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



The_LED_Museum said:


> There's a boost circuit in the Proton to boost the 1.5 volts from the AA cell to the ~3.6 volts needed by the white LEDs.
> 
> The PWM circuit does indeed "strobe" the LEDs quickly to achieve dimming functions.



Thanks The LED Museum! So what would be the expected efficiency of the boost circuit? If there is in fact a regulation circuit in addition to the PWM, how does all this figure in to the driving of the LEDs? Maybe they aren't being overdriven as much as has been discussed and the inefficiencies are boosting the current usage considerably????


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## chanik (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Most heat form 5mms comes out of the cathode leg which the die is bonded to and which we are careful to heatsink well. The unit is well regulated compared to direct drive with dropping resistors whose discharge curves look like a hyperbola. It is worse on alkalines because they have high internal resistance and over their life drop from 1.5V to 0.8V unlike lithiums and NiMH. We don't recommend alkalines for this reason. Really the unit is designed to run mostly off of NiMH at 50ma per LED. As for runtimes, battery capacity is always spec'd for low and intermittent current draw. It will last longer if used this way but a 3Ahr battery does not last 1hr at 3Amps.

To a first approximation, if the L1P is just over twice as bright on 1 NiMH with less than half the beam angle then it is half the lumens.


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## ViReN (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

paulr: The camera (Kodak DX4900 EasyShare, 4MP, around 5 years old) has been set to daylight as white balance. the only variable is Exposure time, which I cannot control in my very basic camera... I can only specify exposure compensation and in first shot it was set to -1 and second shot -2 as it was appearing too bright for the second shot

the first shot shows more of a real world kind of beam.. where as the second shot highly enhances the _tint aspect_


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## Moat (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



chanik said:


> Most heat form 5mms comes out of the cathode leg which the die is bonded to and which we are careful to heatsink well. ........... Really the unit is designed to run mostly off of NiMH at 50ma per LED.



Well, that's sounding better to me. 

Doug - would it be too much to ask for a plot on NiMH?

And I agree the plots so far don't look all THAT bad... if stretched lengthwise to match the dropout point of an ARC AAA or Infinity Ultra, they'd actually look pretty similar (good use of the area under the curve). And TIN... I know you like the ARCs!


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## ViReN (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

if the light is designed for Ni-MH, i believe one will get the best compromise of Brightness with Highest runtime.... Here is an explanation .. first the image (data taken from jtr1962's LED Lumen testing)





the red curve shows the input power to brightness ratio, if you see, at 40 mA the relative i/p power is minimum and the relative brightness is maximum it remains around .58 and at 50 ma it is .57 also the brightness will be 2 times as that of 20 mA

I really thank jtr1962 for his efforts in testing these LED's ....


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## xochi (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

double post


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## xochi (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



NewBie said:


> Quickbeam's testing shows it isn't comming close to anything like 60-70 lumens, but less than half that number. From his post, the data that was provided:
> 
> L91 Lithium AA:
> Throw: 229 (15.13)
> ...



Thank You! 

At photonforums LRI has had folks swallowing the notion that in using an array of 5mm nichias *we get more light for longer* and that is the reason that the Proton doesn't use a high flux LED. The real world numbers clearly say otherwise. *There is no advantage to the array, in fact , we get less light and less reliability. *The spin that LRI has put on the protons array amounts to the "Emporers New Clothes", it's bogus. The design decisions to use an array and manufacture the light in china are done to put money in their pockets, our money. 

I'm not saying another version of the proton couldn't be all they were hoping to market but this version falls too short for the money.


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## paulr (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Viren, I don't think that efficiency-vs-current graph applies to the Proton, since the brightness control is PWM. The Proton's leds are always either running at full current (not so efficient) or else switched off (not producing light). Fancier multilevel lights like the Li14330 and Spy 005 actually supply a variable amount of continuous current to the led instead of using PWM, in order to get that higher efficiency at low currents. That also gets rid of the strobe effect.

As for lumen output, I hope we can get one of these over to Gransee for an integrating sphere test, but for now Quickbeam's tests are pretty informative. They've been consistent over a wide range of lights and show the Proton to be making fewer lumens than the L1p, which itself is not the world's most efficient boost circuit. The Proton was originally intended to use the Nichia Jupiter, a wonder-led that didn't materialize. LRI had apparently had difficult experiences with Luxeon products in the past and understandably didn't want to use them again. But Luxeon product consistency has gotten a lot better since a couple years ago. So maybe it's time to think about using a K2 in the Proton.


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## Quickbeam (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

OK - hold the phone... 

"50 lumens for 1.5 hours with a Lithium AA"

[BIG EDIT - removed comparison to 50 Lumen output of A2... See below]

Doug P.

EDIT: I've just been told that an independent tester found the A2 was closer to 80 Lumens - so that sort of blows my comparison out of the water... But still... 50 Lumens 1.5 hours 1 AA cell? I'd be more than a little skeptical just hearing this suggestion... :shrug:


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## jar3ds (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Quickbeam said:


> OK - hold the phone...
> 
> "50 lumens for 1.5 hours with a Lithium AA"
> 
> ...


 heh... yeah red flags should be going up with that statement...

i sort of assumed that we'd see your exact runtime plot of the lithium cell... but the output would start @ 40-50 lumens... 

the fact remains that the PT Quad is out shining the Proton by Doug's #'s when the Quad as two fewer LED's...

however Doug's signature is a method that i will from now on follow:

"The default position on any claim is disbelief until credible evidence is presented."

if our leaders were following that we wouldn't be in Iraq


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## NewBie (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I was interested in comparing where each light was putting it's photons, so I tweaked Viren's photo to see flood area of the two lights.


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## jar3ds (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

i have a question...

i know we've been talking about the over drive rates of the proton on the 6 white LED's...

what about the red one? Is the sum of all the mA's that are going into the 6 whites all going into the red?


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## The_LED_Museum (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I'm reasonably certain the red LED does not have to "eat" all of the current supplied to the six white LEDs...if it did, the red LED would be brighter than crap for a very short time, then all of the magic smoke in it would get let out and it would no longer function.


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## jar3ds (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

i agree craig... that being said... i wonder if theres also something limiting the current we calculate for the Proton for its 6 white LED's...

the pic of the red led shows it VERY bright on full boar though


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## ViReN (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



NewBie said:


> I was interested in comparing where each light was putting it's photons, so I tweaked Viren's photo to see flood area of the two lights.



Yup NewBie  Proton has Much more flood as compared with Fenix....

Also, by now, I know, I am bad when it comes to taking beamshots


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## chimo (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> Yup NewBie  Proton has Much more flood as compared with Fenix....



Viren, the beamshot looks the opposite. The Fenix seems to have a brighter flood but a smaller hotspot. The Proton seems to have a wider hotspot.

Paul


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## ViReN (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I discovered a New Feature 

One can put on ALL the LED's at once... i.e. including RED led...

It gives such a cool pinkish tint to the beam..... 

Wait.. let me take a beamshot with ALL the LED's


Proton on Left with (*Alkaline*) and McKinley with Lithium





Proton on Left with (*Alkaline*) and L2P with 2 Alkalines





The Photos again as usual my bad Photography.. but hopefully could show the tint aspect...

I would be taking more real life beam shots this weekend.. instead of my stupid white wall beamshots 

here... more of regular objects could be do i guess..


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## ViReN (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



chimo said:


> Viren, the beamshot looks the opposite. The Fenix seems to have a brighter flood but a smaller hotspot. The Proton seems to have a wider hotspot.
> 
> Paul






may be the latest beamshot display things more clearly...

the Proton has soft transition from hotspot to fall off where as Fenix has tighter hotspot and distinct flood.


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## The_LED_Museum (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> I discovered a New Feature
> 
> One can put on ALL the LED's at once... i.e. including RED led...


How do you access this mode?
I'd be interested in seeing all seven LEDs on for myself; plus I'll want to add that beam photograph & measurement to my website when I arrive in Sacramento.


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## jar3ds (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



The_LED_Museum said:


> How do you access this mode?
> I'd be interested in seeing all seven LEDs on for myself; plus I'll want to add that beam photograph & measurement to my website when I arrive in Sacramento.


 +1


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## Haz (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Viren, from the latest pics, the beamshot looks like an incan, by blending the beam 6 white and 1 red and creating a warmer tint, did you notice a better colour rendition in outdoor use. ie does trees look more 3D, as oppose to flat looking when the tint is pure white.


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## jar3ds (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Haz said:


> Viren, from the latest pics, the beamshot looks like an incan, by blending the beam 6 white and 1 red and creating a warmer tint, did you notice a better colour rendition in outdoor use. ie does trees look more 3D, as oppose to flat looking when the tint is pure white.


 thanks a dang good thought... i would like to know too... as well as how viren is able to do this


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## Haz (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



jar3ds said:


> thanks a dang good thought... i would like to know too... as well as how viren is able to do this


 
you're welcome, I'm really keen to see the results, because i like the colour rendition of incan, especially on fresh batteries, I hope this will literally add a new dimension to the light.


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## PhotonLight (May 23, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

*Heatsinking:* The LEDs in the Proton are well-heatsinked through the aluminum body of the light. The heatsinking is through the cathodes of the LEDs to the heavy copper flood on the circuit board and then to the aluminum body of the light. Heat may cause some slight reduction in output once the light is warmed up, but the amount is minimal and in any case if you measure the light shortly after turning it on the heat should not effect the reading.



*Measured Output:* The 50 lumen figure has been considered a safe estimate of total overall light output based on the measured performance of the LEDs themselves and how they are being driven in the Proton, and LRI is still confident that the figure is fairly accurate. In a simple side-by-side comparison between the Proton & Fenix L1P, the hot spot of the L1P will appear brighter but only about half the diameter of the Proton's beam. If you do the math, the Proton is covering approximately 4x more area at half the intensity which works out to about 2x more total light output compared to the Fenix. This of course does not take into consideration the peripheral light outside the center hotspot, which in the case of Proton is significant. 

The design philosophy behind the Proton is to provide a light with a good hot center spot while still offering good peripheral illumination. A tight center beam at the sake of decent peripheral illumination is much more common, this type of beam has some severe limitations when it comes to illuminating your immediate surroundings. The high concentration of light in the center essentially leaves you contrast-blind to anything outside that spot. Personally, I find I much prefer the more useable beam of the Proton providing a bright hotspot as well as full peripheral vision.



*Potential damage from overdriving the LEDs:* For LRI's products, this has always been more of a theoretical issue than a real-life problem. Obviously it will take a whole lot of use before any reduction in output will be noticeable. Realistically, If you're using your Proton so much that it becomes an issue for you, LRI will be happy to replace your light. I don't know of any other company that stands behind their products with the kind of support LRI does. This goes for the issue Doug mentioned regarding short threads on the tailcap of his light as well. Simply put, if you ever have a problem with your light, LRI will fix it. (Incidentally, the thread issue was apparently due to some slight variation in the length of threads on these first pre-production units and is already being addressed). Those of you who have experienced LRI's warranty service in the past I'm sure have no worries, but it's worth repeating for those who haven't. *If your LRI product ever fails for any reason other than abuse or battery expiration, return it for a free repair or replacement.*



*ETA:* As of today, the estimated arrival date has been pushed back a couple weeks, which puts the ETA at "early-June". There have been a couple items which have come up with the first pre-production run and they are being addressed. I know many of you are anxiously awaiting your lights, as am I, and David Allen at LRI is working every day to make sure that all is right and to get the Proton delivered as quickly as possible.


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Haz said:


> Viren, from the latest pics, the beamshot looks like an incan, by blending the beam 6 white and 1 red and creating a warmer tint, did you notice a better colour rendition in outdoor use. ie does trees look more 3D, as oppose to flat looking when the tint is pure white.



YES it does have good color feel to eyes... and it looks like InCan light.... I believe this is specifically because White LED's lack Red color and when we switch on the RED LED, the RED element is added in to the beam....

its like Cool Incan (instead of warm incan) i.e. -infra red


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



The_LED_Museum said:


> How do you access this mode?
> I'd be interested in seeing all seven LEDs on for myself; plus I'll want to add that beam photograph & measurement to my website when I arrive in Sacramento.




I am not sure how it is enabled, I was playing with the light... and i discovered it...

here is how i did it... (i am not sure what exact procedure is)
1) Press and Hold till red turns on and then immidiately release (LED should be in lowest brightness mode)
2) wait for 2-3 seconds.. and then press and hold again ... till the brightness reaches Full and LED Flashes... release the button
3) now again press and hold to change mode... once the light enters in SOS mode, release the button
4) now in sos mode press it for 1/2 second and release... wait 2-3 seconds and turn off

this should set the mode for turning on the red led along with white led's... now turn on the proton by simple click... and all LED's will light up.

remember when ever you switch light on in red only mode, the previous mode is lost.


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## nemul (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

you found a egg! lol


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## Polar_Hops (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Any idea when these are going to ship? I preordered one =) I like the way it looks with the red led on =)


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## ChocolateLab33 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Now they are saying June for an ETA.


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## NewBie (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



NewBie said:


> I was interested in comparing where each light was putting it's photons, so I tweaked Viren's photo to see flood area of the two lights.





ViReN said:


> Yup NewBie  Proton has Much more flood as compared with Fenix....
> 
> Also, by now, I know, I am bad when it comes to taking beamshots




Nah, I think you have that backarsewards.

Let me crank the photo a little more, and look at the many times brighter flood area of the Fenix, with zero flood on the Proton:


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## chanik (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> I am not sure how it is enabled, I was playing with the light... and i discovered it...
> 
> here is how i did it... (i am not sure what exact procedure is)
> 1) Press and Hold till red turns on and then immidiately release (LED should be in lowest brightness mode)
> ...


The delays are not needed. Just let the red mode 'fall back' into SOS blink at the first optical detent and turn off the light; the dual color run is enabled. normally SOS is the last blinky mode but at the first off blip, if you let up the button the light will fall back into SOS.


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Oh.. One More thing... The light _seems _(not certain as i do not have enough of playing with) to remember the last mode of Blinking... in both red and white..... ... it remembers even after a battery change  .. i changed battery in about 10 seconds or so... i believe...


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## d1337 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I'm a liitle confused about the spill beam on the proton vs the Fenix. From VIReN's beam shots it looks like the fenix has a much bigger spill beam and a brighter hot spot. This seems to conflict with what VIReN and Brian (PhotonLight) are saying. Am I missing something?
:huh2:


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## d1337 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Aren't we supposed to close a thread after 200 posts? If so maybe we could start a new thread in the general LED section.


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



d1337 said:


> I'm a liitle confused about the spill beam on the proton vs the Fenix. From VIReN's beam shots it looks like the fenix has a much bigger spill beam and a brighter hot spot. This seems to conflict with what VIReN and Brian (PhotonLight) are saying. Am I missing something?
> :huh2:



check the image modified by NewBie,






as you can see Proton has a 2X HOTSPOT as compared with Fenix....


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> check the image modified by NewBie,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 yeah i see that the spot is bigger on the proton, but what about the side spill? That is what i think people are seeing is more with the fenix... in real life is it this way viren? 

As a side note... in my old Jil Intelli i used the reflector that gave me the larger spot and it was MUCH more practical than a small little bright spot... even with the loss of throw it didn't matter because for the practical purpose of the light i found a larger spot allowed me to see better than the spill of a reflector... the contrast wasn't as high etc...



PhotonLight said:


> *Heatsinking:* The LEDs in the Proton are well-heatsinked through the aluminum body of the light. The heatsinking is through the cathodes of the LEDs to the heavy copper flood on the circuit board and then to the aluminum body of the light. Heat may cause some slight reduction in output once the light is warmed up, but the amount is minimal and in any case if you measure the light shortly after turning it on the heat should not effect the reading.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i am so happy to see this... my fears are now very small and can't wait to get this light... Just can't wait


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## NewBie (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



PhotonLight said:


> *Heatsinking:*
> 
> *Measured Output:* The 50 lumen figure has been considered a safe estimate of total overall light output based on the measured performance of the LEDs themselves and how they are being driven in the Proton, and LRI is still confident that the figure is fairly accurate. In a simple side-by-side comparison between the Proton & Fenix L1P, the hot spot of the L1P will appear brighter but only about half the diameter of the Proton's beam. If you do the math, the Proton is covering approximately 4x more area at half the intensity which works out to about 2x more total light output compared to the Fenix. This of course does not take into consideration the peripheral light outside the center hotspot, which in the case of Proton is significant.
> 
> The design philosophy behind the Proton is to provide a light with a good hot center spot while still offering good peripheral illumination. A tight center beam at the sake of decent peripheral illumination is much more common, this type of beam has some severe limitations when it comes to illuminating your immediate surroundings. The high concentration of light in the center essentially leaves you contrast-blind to anything outside that spot. Personally, I find I much prefer the more useable beam of the Proton providing a bright hotspot as well as full peripheral vision.




Brian, you are starting to sound like a marketing department.

Quickbeam's testing is showing the Proton is no where near the 50 lumen mark, from the numbers, it is a hopeful maybe you can reach 25 lumens.

You do claim the light is heatsinked well and all, but how would you explain the very considerable loss of light output, from your expected lumen number, as shown by Quickbeam's total output numbers? An overdriven LED die will reach most of it's final temperature in 2/100ths of a second. According to Nichia, the thermal resistance to their 5mm LED die is roughly 275 C/W. Folks here are figuring you are driving each LED with about 230mW. This means the LED die will rise by 63.25 degrees C in that 2/100ths of a second, over the 25C ambient, hitting 88.25 degrees C in that 2/100ths of a second, even if you heatsink the LED lead to an infinite heatsink. This nearly instant die heating causes a reduction of the LED light output. 

As you can see from the photos, the Proton has very little sidespill, and the Proton sacrifices illimination of the surroundings. The Proton concentrates more of it's light to the center, with the Proton having very little spill at all. This can make it harder to see where you are going, and greatly reduces the utility of the Proton flashlight.

The effect can be seen in Viren's own photo, where I've adjusted it to show the flood area of both lights. Looking to the left of the Proton, as you can see, there is nearly no flood/spill, as it is dark:


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## chesterqw (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

nice light...

anyway, photonlight has already stated that you CAN use a glass window(or lens if you prefer) infront of the leds, there is even an o-ring there for that purpose.UCL will be the way to go!

about the leds being overdrive, i don't think it will affect the light much. plz, you can't really use up even half of a led's life(50k hours). Also, the nichia cs led CAN be overdrive sigificantly without alot of harm to it although it does create heat....

of you are so afraid of the 1h 30min runtime or the over driven leds, YOU can turn the light output lower...what did you think the lights levels are for? fun, nope. plusing of led using high currents isn't that harmful to it anyway.

about angry blue... there ISN'T such thing in the cs led although the center of the light the led produce is a very,very,very slight blue tint. the outer(conora thingy) is umm... warm white kinda light.


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



chesterqw said:


> nice light...
> 
> anyway, photonlight has already stated that you CAN use a glass window(or lens if you prefer) infront of the leds, there is even an o-ring there for that purpose.UCL will be the way to go!
> 
> ...


 yeah i was wondering about that... since the LED is being pulsed what kind of damage is being done...

my Jil Intelli when on lower settings produce no heat... but however, according to others on this thread... the LED is still being hit with the max amount of mA's?

shouldn't it still get hot if its being hit with that many pulses per/sec? why doesn't it?


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

_*ENOUGH of the stupid White Walls and the beams!!!*_ ... and now presenting.... the DIRTY... space below the TV Box... but this should give SOME real life idea beam idea... 

Here is a beamshot with L2P with *2 Fresh Alkalines*





Here is a beamshot with Proton, (approx 45 minutes) _DEPELEATED SINGLE Alkaline Battery_,





Next is with Proton in _Fresh NiMH Battery_





what you are NOT able to realize is that I am comparing *Fenix L2P* with 2 Batteries & Proton with *ONE Battery* ... Proton NOT only Matches the Output.. but EXCELLS... NOT to speak of color rendering .... Proton has SUPERIOR color rendering as compared with Fenix L2P!!!

in above beamshots ALL led's are ON


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

dang... if i'm not impressed!

Thanks for that photo! The real life shots are much better... your right about color retention with the Proton... 

*close jaw*


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

....And People are Complaining of Angry Blues  :lol:


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Here is Another Real Life Beam Shot comparison....

I call this a_ Thread Test_ (stole my Better Half's Embroidary Threads Paper with color numbers) Perhaps Girls over here could understand this color Comparison Better 

Fenix with 2 Fresh Cells .. well 4 - 5 minutes depleted by now!





McKinley with Fresh Lithium Cell.. well 4 - 5 minutes depleted by now!





Proton with Fresh NiMH .. .. well 4 - 5 minutes depleted by now!


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## nerdgineer (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Viren, is the camera auto-adjusting exposure for your pictures or do you have it locked to one exposure setting?

Thanks.


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## loalight (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Mmmmm, _real world_ results. Color rendition looks really good (for LED). Thanks a lot for the variety of beamshots. I assume that is without the red LED being on? 

Also, Viren, maybe I missed this, but how low is the low? This is often more important to me than the other end of the scale. Skulking and whatnot.

thanks again!


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

having all the LED's on really changes the affect (with the red and all the whites)

it pretty much blows away the fenix, and the peak


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



loalight said:


> Mmmmm, _real world_ results. Color rendition looks really good (for LED). Thanks a lot for the variety of beamshots. I assume that is without the red LED being on?
> 
> Also, Viren, maybe I missed this, but how low is the low? This is often more important to me than the other end of the scale. Skulking and whatnot.
> 
> thanks again!


 i was assuming he had the red light on on those test...

and yes i would like to know how LOW does it GO?


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## chanik (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Here's something for you all to ponder. jtr1962's MEASURED output for the nichia CS is 55lm/W and 48Cd at 50mA. That seems a tad high to me but with a little extra heat call it 45lm/W and 40Cd per bulb. Times 6 is 240Cd and 55Lm with NiMH at 1.25W delivered. Feel free to pop the head off and measure some currents if you want. 

Also, although white wall beamshots can be misleading with under/over exposure and color rendering (Viren's real world shots are much more representative) The fact is that the Proton has OVER twice the beam half-angle (over 4 times the area) and MUCH MORE sidespill than the fenix. So the fenix would have to be WELL OVER 4 times the candlepower of the proton just to match its lumens. It isn't. Quickbeam's measuements are inconsistent in that regard. To his credit it was a preliminary measurement and he never claims to be measuring lumens.


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## loalight (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



chanik said:


> Here's something for you all to ponder. jtr1962's MEASURED output for the nichia CS is 55lm/W and 48Cd at 50mA. That seems a tad high to me but with a little extra heat call it 45lm/W and 40Cd per bulb. Times 6 is 240Cd and 55Lm with NiMH at 1.25W delivered. Feel free to pop the head off and measure some currents if you want.
> 
> Also, although white wall beamshots can be misleading with under/over exposure and color rendering (Viren's real world shots are much more representative) The fact is that the Proton has OVER twice the beam half-angle (over 4 times the area) and MUCH MORE sidespill than the fenix. So the fenix would have to be WELL OVER 4 times the candlepower of the proton just to match its lumens. It isn't. Quickbeam's measuements are inconsistent in that regard. To his credit it was a preliminary measurement and he never claims to be measuring lumens.



these were my back-of-the-envelope calculations as well. Let's all hear it for square laws. QB even points out this major caveat in measuring in a rather prominent disclaimer on his site.


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

White Balance "DayLight"
Exposure Compensation = *-1.5*
F = 2.8
ISO = 100

the shutter speed is ... 
1/45 seconds for the Dirty space below TV for ALL shots
1/90 for the Thread Test for ALL shots


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



jar3ds said:


> i was assuming he had the red light on on those test...
> 
> and yes i would like to know how LOW does it GO?



the low is really low... will take this shot tonite later...


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Here is the beamshot as requested...

The Dimmmm Shot (ALL LED's are ON on proton) and on Right Fresh Li CR2032 DD with Nichia CS C0 LED


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## ViReN (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

_The Thread Test Shots Croped, Rotated, Resized to show threads more.._

Fenix with 2 Fresh Cells .. well 4 - 5 minutes depleted by now!





McKinley with Fresh Lithium Cell.. well 4 - 5 minutes depleted by now!





Proton with Fresh NiMH .. .. well 4 - 5 minutes depleted by now!


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## chanik (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Dim is 0.5% of full on White and 0.25% on red. That dim enough for you? You can still read even with just the red LED when dark adapted.


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

i know this is obvious... but the ability to have a red and white light in one flashlight is something i have been asking for, for so long...

i wish Princeton Tec would do it soon with a headlamp


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## LowBat (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



jar3ds said:


> i know this is obvious... but the ability to have a red and white light in one flashlight is something i have been asking for, for so long...
> 
> i wish Princeton Tec would do it soon with a headlamp


Off topic, but you could get the white and red LED headlamp marketed by Energizer.


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

eeekk... i know of its availbility... however its not near the quality of a PT ... 

now... back to the proton


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## loalight (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

(also off-topic) 
Primus' Primelite headlamp also does this, and has a Luxeon in addition to red & white 5mms. The AR model even has remote control, to an extent.
(-end-hijack-)


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## cave dave (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

I don't really get the Red thing, I'd rather just have a dim white light. Any effect of saving your night vision seems to be greatly exagerated in my informal testing.


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

This pic is from this link 





i admit I really don't know what i'm talking about with all this for sure... but to me it appears that the proton will hold 80% of its output for 500 hours (which isn't that the same as the life of a LuxV?) 

Thats about 500 full battery cycles @ MAX output, with nimh and only losing 20% of output?... all of that is true if the LED's are indeed getting hit with about 50mA's... i'd find the average user no where near these numbers...

*These are continous burns keep in mind*... i haven't found any data that shows a 10 mins on... 2 mins off.... or something like that... to allow the LED to cool... all these tests seem to be worst case... so the typical user who just uses their light... dims it a bit... ramps it up some for 20mins here and there... is sort of baby'ing the LED's?

however, one factor I don't know well is the heat factor... but when a lot of these tests are done I don't know if they are heat-sinked at all... i think they are just hooked straight to power supplies for these tests... in a light where they are connected to copper and sinked to the exterior of the alum body... they may show better results?

I do understand that even though the proton is hitting the LED with 50mA's even on the lower settings... it still has to be better for the LED if its a lower brightness through PWM... if not for the overdriving/current than for the heat issue

this old CPF thread was quite helpful...


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## jar3ds (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



cave dave said:


> I don't really get the Red thing, I'd rather just have a dim white light. Any effect of saving your night vision seems to be greatly exagerated in my informal testing.


 well i don't know.... i'm in the military and red is superior! 

For example... take the gladius... since its beam is such a strong spot... if your trying to conserve your night vision you will need to bring the brightness up enough to get a spill that bright enough for you to... say read a map... 

with a flood light such as the proton you won't have to brighten it as much to see over the same larger area (the map)... 

however when you factor in a red light this will help even more... i have had so many experiences where the white dim light doesn't bother me (make me squint) but if you look at a map with a dim flood white light... then look at a tree line (at a forest 20m away) i find my NV is greatly diminished... with the red... hardly at all...

i think everyone's eyes will be differnet though


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## planex (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

I'm even more sold on this light than when I preordered it last week. The ability to fully dim the white or red led's was great, but the ability to turn on the white and red led's at the same time and dim them as well is awesome! What a great feature to be able to change the tint of the beam!


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## Craig720 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Looks like we have a massive case of "He Said, She Said."

Conflicting report results, discussions, arguments. COOL.

LOTS of noise on this one, but good noise. That means LOADS of interest.

I ordered one of these for myself. I already have two Fenixes. And several SueFires and Inovas....

I'll take my dog for a walk and perform my own ultimate tests -- spot checks underneath nearby bushes, down embankments, and underneath cars across the parking lot.


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## loalight (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



jar3ds said:


> however, one factor I don't know well is the heat factor... but when a lot of these tests are done I don't know if they are heat-sinked at all... i think they are just hooked straight to power supplies for these tests... in a light where they are connected to copper and sinked to the exterior of the alum body... they may show better results?


the heatsinking should be even better than that in most flashlights you'll find around here (including we hope the Proton).. anything with a decent (ie Cu or Al) metallic path to your hand will be able to take advantage of the (relatively) infinite heatsink of your liquid cooled hand.


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## chanik (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

One of the main features of the red is the ability to START very dim. In astronomy or warzones or anywhere dark adaptation must be preserved, it is considered bad form to fire up a big blast of light and then dim. It attracts unwanted attention in both cases. dual red/white also works in momentary mode. The light will hold these states forever when a battery is removed.


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## kitelights (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

I've waited with great anticipation for the release of this light. It wasn't just the features of the light that attracted me, but the fact that LRI was producing it. Companies have character and LRI has the kind of character that I have confidence in. Even when the original design was changed to multi 5mm LEDs because the manf of the high power LEDs couldn't produce what they claimed, I knew that whatever final product was delivered would be good. Why, because the company is too ethical to produce crap. During it's development, many were so critical and called the Proton vaporware (even though prototypes had been physically held in hand by some CPFers).

Newbie is one of the most technically knowledgeable individuals on CPF and how he picks and chooses his endorsements, I'll never know, but I don't think that I can remember more than two things that he had something positive to say about. Much of the time his ramblings are beyond my ability to comprehend, but using his technical knowledge and exceptional writing skills to convince others that non-facts are facts just plain stinks.

One of the big issues has been lumens output. This won't be solved until a Proton is put in an IS. Doug is one of the good guys - he's the real deal - no hidden agenda - all integrity, but his figures don't use an IS. The closer the beam types are to each other, the more accurate the comparisons will be. The more "flood" a light produces, the less accurate it will be. This is the case with the Proton and it does show itself somewhat in Doug's numbers. The throw of the Proton is FAR LESS than the Fenix, yet its captured total output is much closer to the Fenix numbers. How do you account for that? Where are all those photons if they're not reflected in the throw numbers? 

A water hose is a reasonable example. Think about a finely focused stream and measure the "intensity." Change the stream to a spray 4x the stream and what happens? The coverage is much larger, but the intensity is much less. In order to maintain the same intensity, the supply has to be greatly increased. Let's use a 12 inch round container to measure the output (per seconds or minute, etc). Measure the stream and take a reading then create a spray 4x larger and measure that. The larger the spray the less the reading will be compared to the stream, but the amount of water being "used" is constant for both. 

Now if I can understand the relative effect of the angle of an output beam on light measurement, I know damn good and well that Newbie does. And knowing that, just what is this crap of trying to further justify non-truths with pictures? I'm willing to go on record that when the Proton is tested in an IS, it'll be closer to 50 lumens than 25.

Longevity of the LEDs? I'm comfortable with the CS and LRIs design. I wonder why Newbie didn't give us the fact about most of the heat at one of the leads. His description of the tight fitting LEDs led me to believe that heat was transfered through the epoxy body (single LED ARCs and peaks).

Come on people, you've been around long enough to understand the relative effects between output and runtime (and with a single AA cell). If your plans are to continuously run this light on high for 45 minutes at a time, over and over, this probably isn't a good choice. Kinda like using a 3 inch hand garden spade to dig a grave.

Remember that LRI's market, unlike many other vendors here on CPF, is much larger than CPF. I would have ordered one before I wrote this, but I'm past broke. My family will get my Father's Day 'suggestion' tomorrow. 

Thirty day (no reason) money back guarantee and a lifetime replacement guarantee from a company that pioneered the use of LEDs and has been around longer than any other - and what other question is there?


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## d1337 (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Well put.


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## nemul (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



cave dave said:


> I don't really get the Red thing, I'd rather just have a dim white light. Any effect of saving your night vision seems to be greatly exagerated in my informal testing.



hmmm.. can we swap the red for another Nichia CS and use the "all on" trick!? lmao

you could also get a lot more spill by removing the silver led shroud and drop in a UCL.. right?

ViReN thanks for the new pics! helps alot.. keep um coming..


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## ViReN (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

kitelights: Well said 

to everyone: I am sorry if this has caused confusion because of my bad photography skills in taking stupid white wall beamshots!  :sigh:


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## ViReN (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



nemul said:


> hmmm.. can we swap the red for another Nichia CS and use the "all on" trick!? lmao
> 
> _* you could also get a lot more spill by removing the silver led shroud and drop in a UCL.. right?*_
> 
> ViReN thanks for the new pics! helps alot.. keep um coming..



Yes I believe so


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## NewBie (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



jar3ds said:


> This pic is from this link




There is one very telling graph in your link if you dig a little further. On the bottom of page 5/9 there is a graph of output vs. the amount of time on.

Notice how in pulsed mode, at one second, in Red, the output continues to climb with higher currents.

But, in black, at 600 seconds (10 minutes), you can see how the output drops from the 2.4x at 60mA (in red-one second bursts), to an output of only 1.6x at 60mA for 600 second bursts.

It clearly shows the loss in output when the LED is on for more than one second.

On page 3/9, you will find the comment, "During this experiment, it was noticed that the light output of the LEDs was very sensitive to the ambient temperature."

The author even notes that the light depreciation with time ended up being faster than what the manufacturer claimed, even at 20mA, they dropped to 65% in only 4000 hours. He goes on to mention that they purchased more LEDs at a later date, from two different manufacturers, and found they degraded similarily.

Figure 1, page 5/9, notice how, if the LEDs are ran for a period of time (in seconds), the light output drops substantially, especially at the high over drive currents.


The paper by Nadarajah Narendan you referenced, from the year 2000 has been updated several times, with follow on experiments.

I referred to one of the newer papers in this thread, by the same Nadarajah Narendan, but it is five years more up to date, with much more insight since those old experiments were conducted.
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/solidstate/pdf/narendranSPIE2005.pdf

In figure 4, found on page 3, you can see how much more quickly white LED arrays degrade at only 40mA (shown in black). Array is the key concept to take home with you. In this paper, he is also proposing that one uses blue die array, with a window that has a phosphor coating, in order to extend the life, which is shown by the line in Red.



I have no idea where folks get the notion that 5mm White LEDs are 50,000 devices. They are not. LumiLEDs white 1W and 3W are. NOT the 5mm devices.


Viren, could you do the same "real world" beamshots with both lights in the same photo? It sure looks like your camera is doing some *real* serious adjustment between the photos, both for color and brightness. As such, with the camera tweaking and compensating stuff, the comparisions are nearly invalid.


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## ViReN (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



NewBie said:


> There is one very telling graph in your link if you dig a little further. On the bottom of page 5/9 there is a graph of output vs. the amount of time on.
> 
> Notice how in pulsed mode, at one second, in Red, the output continues to climb with higher currents.
> 
> ...



Newbie, I will try to do that today evening... 2 lights in ONE shot 

Also just wondering.... I read the paper... and noticed one small thing...please see the red box.... below







*Arent we discussing on the data that is 5 years old*.... *do you think that LED's especially the white LED's have remained at the level that they were 5 - 6 years ago?*


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## ViReN (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

I have contacted Narendran.. .. Let's see if I get a response..... just to confirm if it has been updated... also requesting one more friend who is _IN_ there... to request personally to test the latest Nichia NSPW500CS


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## jar3ds (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



NewBie said:


> There is one very telling graph in your link if you dig a little further. On the bottom of page 5/9 there is a graph of output vs. the amount of time on.
> 
> Notice how in pulsed mode, at one second, in Red, the output continues to climb with higher currents.
> 
> ...


 from my glancing over both documents.... i'm not sure exactly what LED's are being used... it seems that nichia's handle overdrive currents a lot better than other 5mm LED's.... from the doc. you linked... it seems his LED's are recomended for use @ 20mA's.... aren't nichia's the most eff. and recomended @ 30mA's?

From that old CPF thread link you can see that other 5mm LED's pretty much die really quickly when overdriven... nichia's seem to hold pretty decent... some LED's do really bad under overdriving conditions... 

i don't think many are saying these LED's are going to last 50,000 hours... i think if they hold 80% output @ 500 hours thats pretty decent... and that seems to be at worst case examples with LED's that aren't most likely nichia CS's... again the LumiLEDs 5w's don't have that large of lives either...

the photo's Viren took are used with the same camera settings on all the photo's... you can acually tell the difference between the proton on a fresh nimh and old cells... the color diff. i think your seeing is the red and white LED's all being on (for your color tweak)...

*how is it ok to assume fact when it came to eariler photo's of the fenix appearing to have more spill... but now these photos are invalid and are tampered with?*


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## ViReN (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

as far as I know, the document refered above has NOT been updated since Feb 2004

and Nichia NSPW500CS LED's are manufactured much later than that... so there is NO chance that these led's are tested.

Here is the Proof of document Date!


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## jar3ds (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



ViReN said:


> as far as I know, the document refered above has NOT been updated since Feb 2004
> 
> and Nichia NSPW500CS LED's are manufactured much later than that... so there is NO chance that these led's are tested.
> 
> ...


 amen... the best data that we have is from the old CPF thread that i linked above... there is SOME data on the Nichia CS there... 





as shown above by chimo's pic... 57mA's was choosen because that i think thats what the Arc AAA P is being driven at... also, the proton on nimh is hitting with just about the same 50-ish mA's...

also, a pic of the beam shot after and before the test...

http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=26knichiabeforeandafter9lx.jpg


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## jar3ds (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

credit goes to chimo:

LUMEN MAINTENANCE: Nichia CS (CU) at 60 mA
http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5mmnichiacsculumenmaintat60ma4.jpg


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## jar3ds (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

heh... aren't we glad the proton isn't made with snow LED's... 

LUMEN MAINTENANCE: Peak Snow 29 at 30 and 40 mA

http://img386.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5mmpeaksnow29lumenmaintat30and1.jpg


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## NewBie (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



jar3ds said:


> credit goes to chimo:
> 
> LUMEN MAINTENANCE: Nichia CS (CU) at 60 mA
> http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=5mmnichiacsculumenmaintat60ma4.jpg


(Moderator edits out a few words - please remember "CPF etiquitte": Attack the post not the poster.)

I linked that graph for reference, which is Chimo's, back on 05-21-2006, 06:57 PM, in post #188, at the end. There was a discussion about specifically that data, since it was in an extra cool ambient, full lead length of the device, no heat of the additional LEDs around it, and lacking the addtional heat produced the converter ...see below.


We discussed all that last week. Let me bring you up to speed, post 174:



chimo said:


> Hi guys, the tests were done in open air with a single LED powered from a seperate power supply. The leads were left full length and they passed through an insulating block (to keep the assembly rigid for the several day tests). My shop is in the basement, so the ambient was probably around 18-20 degC.
> 
> The Nichias are good, but not bullet-proof and are limited by the 5mm package.
> 
> ...



Then my comments:


NewBie said:


> Keep in mind, that it is unlikely Chimo tested the LEDs with additional LEDs around it, clustering and confining the heat in a very small space.
> 
> This would greatly accellerate the lumen depreciation alot.
> 
> Now toss in the additional heat contributed by the converter into that same small space.



So Chimo tested a single LED (cooler then a cluster which is hotter, plus Chimo's test lacked the heat of the converter), in free air (air circulates and removes heat), in an extra cool ambient, and with the full lead length of the Nichia in the air (in effect acts as a heatsink).

Now as far as the document I talked about, with the LED degredation, see Chimo's comment:


chimo said:


> Newbie, great link (I saved a copy). I took a *really* quick look at it. They are using Nichia samples from a 2003 batch (perhaps they have improved the phosphor since then). It also looks like they have them clustered and at a higher ambient (35C) which would contribute to the more rapid output drop (like as in a flashlight head).
> 
> 
> For many on this forum, this whole thing will not be a big issue - most have so many flashlights that even if they timeshared they would not rack up enough hours to perceive much of a significant output drop.
> ...




Then Viren mentions he found a material that looks like silicone (RTV) in the Proton, to which I mentioned that RTV is a great thermal insulator.




ViReN said:


> as far as I know, the document refered above has NOT been updated since Feb 2004
> 
> and Nichia NSPW500CS LED's are manufactured much later than that... so there is NO chance that these led's are tested.
> 
> Here is the Proof of document Date!



That was *jar3ds* document, and if you open it, you can see the Copyright date of 2000, on the very first page...
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/solidstate/pdf/SPIE3938-39_Narendran.pdf


This was the one I referenced, which has a Copyright date of 2005, from the very same author:
http://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/solidstate/pdf/narendranSPIE2005.pdf


NewBie said:


> In figure 4, found on page 3, you can see how much more quickly white LED arrays degrade at only 40mA (shown in black). Array is the key concept to take home with you. In this paper, he is also proposing that one uses blue die array, with a window that has a phosphor coating, in order to extend the life, which is shown by the line in Red.


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## loalight (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

edit- another vbulletin formatting error munged a page, a reload solved it


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## jar3ds (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

theres no reason to be rude at me newbie... from my posts you will see that i'm unsure of a lot of this and just trying to discuss the issues involved here...


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## ViReN (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Dear NewBie  thanks for clarifying.

Here is the picture that you have requested... head to head 2 in one shot...






this picture is appearing relatively dimmer .... becase of following settings... 
White Balance "DayLight"
Exposure Compensation = -2
F = 2.8
ISO = 100
the shutter speed is ...1/120 seconds


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## ViReN (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

and before i get your warth on me for pointing fenix at *BLACK* portion ... here is the picture with fenix on Left and Proton on Right  all the settings are same as above beamshot including the shutter speed.


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## jar3ds (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

dang nice pics viren... it does really show how much the proton is brighter... good idea on switching the lights sides...

i'm assuming you used the proton with all the LED's lit, including the red one?


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## jar3ds (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

OH... Viren... is the fenix with 2 alks? L2P? or one alk with a dummy?


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## ViReN (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

I have not changed batteries since yesterdays beamshots ... and Proton was used for about 10 - 15 minutes last night after the beam shots... L2P was not touched after the beam shots... 

Proton in all realistic shots is having RED led as ON  ... I love the Cool Incand tint & the Better Color RI CRI 

ever since i discovered the "Egg" i have been Eggy


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## The_LED_Museum (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Thank you for discovering that "Easter egg" in the Proton's programming!!! :thanks:
I'm not sure if my digital camera will show the difference between the six white LEDs and all LEDs (including the red), but I'll post the beam photograph and intensity measurement on the Proton's web page on my website in any case, captioning the photograph accordingly.


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## Quickbeam (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Update to the easter egg: Just press & hold the button until the first red blink mode starts and immediately release. Turn off. Turn on white mode. All of the LEDs are on when using the white mode until you use the red mode again.


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## xochi (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

For those of you that have HDS EDC lights, you can easily judge the brightness of clustered Nichia CS LEDs for yourselves! I was just at Quickbeams excellent flashlight review site and noticed (really _looked for)_ a review of a recent innova X5. The new innova X5 uses _five_ of the same led as the Proton, the nichia cs. I didn't see any mention of how much current makes it to the LEDs but I do know that previous X5's relied on resistored direct drive for power delivery. The X5 uses 2 CR123 primaries and according to Quickbeams lightbox test is emitting 20.00 QUPS*. *It scored a bit better than the Protons 16.5 QUPS, most likely because of led variances and running on 2 lithium cells. 

This is a great excuse to go buy a new innova X5 so that you can compare _with your own eyes_ the 20ish QUPS of the X5 with the levels of the HDS. The HDS EDC's were just tested by Gransee in an IS and they were found to be pretty close to advertised. There is a breakdown of the various levels of the HDS EDC (it's here on CPF somewhere and unrelated to Gransee's tests) and approximate corresponding lumen figures. 

So, if recieving 50 lumens with your order of a Proton is important to you, try it! Report back (with humility) what _your _eyes have to say about the output of the 5 Nichia CS vs the HDS EDC. Keep in mind that the sample that Quickbeam tested scored about 21% better than the Proton. Doing this test should also give a little better idea of just how reliable QUPs figures are (at least to you ) .

Those of you with the *Fenix L1P/L1T/etc.* might also consider a trip to target to pick up the new innova X5 so that you can also judge to your own eyes , which light puts out more photons!


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## jar3ds (May 25, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

great ideas.. thanks!

I may just have to pop up to target tomarrow... i wonder how a 17650 would run in it if at all...

sadly the second setting on my U60 is 42ish lumens... but yea it'll give a good idea...

have you done this xochi? If so, what was your findings...


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## ViReN (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

xochi: I am sort of confused....

do you mean that Proton will not be as bright as Resistored Inova X5 ?


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## NewBie (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



xochi said:


> For those of you that have HDS EDC lights, you can easily judge the brightness of clustered Nichia CS LEDs for yourselves! I was just at Quickbeams excellent flashlight review site and noticed (really _looked for)_ a review of a recent innova X5. The new innova X5 uses _five_ of the same led as the Proton, the nichia cs. I didn't see any mention of how much current makes it to the LEDs but I do know that previous X5's relied on resistored direct drive for power delivery. The X5 uses 2 CR123 primaries and according to Quickbeams lightbox test is emitting 20.00 QUPS*. *It scored a bit better than the Protons 16.5 QUPS, most likely because of led variances and running on 2 lithium cells.
> 
> This is a great excuse to go buy a new innova X5 so that you can compare _with your own eyes_ the 20ish QUPS of the X5 with the levels of the HDS. The HDS EDC's were just tested by Gransee in an IS and they were found to be pretty close to advertised. There is a breakdown of the various levels of the HDS EDC (it's here on CPF somewhere and unrelated to Gransee's tests) and approximate corresponding lumen figures.
> 
> ...




That is an outstanding idea Xochi!!!


The X5 having the same new LEDs and also driven hard just like the Proton.

Unfortunately, we do know the Fenix doesn't come close to 50 lumens, but I do happen to have both lights.

I grabbed my recently purchased X5 (don't know how to tell a new one from the old), and took pictures.

I chose to take photos at a range of exposures, as each exposure level shows different things, and as we all know, a camera cannot come close to covering the same range as the human eye.























I bracketed


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## ViReN (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

:nana: NewBie..... Thread Hijack  ...

this is Proton Review Thread


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## NewBie (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

For anyone looking and can't find them local, the new "tactical" X5 can that has the new Nichia CS LEDs (even has six of them too), can be found for under thirty dollars, at places like outpost.com:
http://shop1.outpost.com/product/3452593?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Remember, though, the Inova was measuring higher 21% output than the Proton.

20.00/16.5 = 121%


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## lcranston (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

I have a Photon Freedom and there is a 50% power feature built in. It would be nice if the Proton also had this mode to extend battery life. I am looking for a light to do many things and I like the sound/looks of the Proton. I usually don't need a lot of throw and mainly need something to light a body sized object in an indoor environment. I like the red light feature. I have and HDS Basic 60 that is very bright and can be set low, but the one I have can not be set to start out low.


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## scott (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



lcranston said:


> I have a Photon Freedom and there is a 50% power feature built in.



I have a Freedom, but I don't know about the 50% power feature. How do you do it? (Sorry for the temporary highjack)

Scott


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## lcranston (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

This is copied from Mr. X on the Photon Discussion Board:

Dear Photon users, 

I did remember one other advantage to help increase battery life, that a few users may not yet be aware of. 

There exists in the firmware of the Freedom Microlight, a 50% power mode, that can be manually set, to save even more battery life. (This goes for all of the Freedom Microlights, including the F.M.Max.) (Not the P3) 

When this mode is set, the led receives only 50% of the power pulses, from the Pulse Width Modulator(PWM), during the brightness up ramp and a 50% duty cycle when it reaches the highest brightness setting of that same ramp up. 

When the highest brightness setting is reached, the amount of light seems almost as bright as the full power mode and saves 50% on power consumed, with very little difference in perceived light output. This 50% power mode includes ALL of the Safety Beacons as well. 

To activate the 50% power mode: 
From off, press and hold the button, while at the same time, looking into the light output port. The moment the very first and lowest level of light turns on, immediately release the button. From that point & on up, the brightness ramp and all of the Safety Beacons, will be in the 50% power mode. 

You must get to and stop, at the very first and lowest brightness, of the UP-ramp setting or this will not work and the Microlight will remain in the 100% power mode. If you bypass the first step of brightness and get to the second step or further, you will not achieve the 50% power mode. 

Once you turn the Microlight off, you must go through the same process again, to activate the 50% power mode. 

Cheers, to even longer battery life! 

Mr.X


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## ViReN (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

:shh: Shhhh.. :nana: You are NOT supposed to disclosed secret modes


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## this_is_nascar (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

... not only that, it yet to be determined (as far as I know) that this was carried forward to the Photon.


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## Minjin (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Alright, we've established that Newbie doesn't like LRI and doesn't want anyone to buy the Proton. Can we move on to discussion from reviewers about the Proton that they have actually used?

Mark


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## ViReN (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

I have been using Proton for quite some time now ... and I like it very much... 

the ALL LED's ON is one of the best things that I like about Proton... it gives special Incand like tint without being hot... and it feels better to eyes too.... not to speak of better color rendering... 

Also.. I dont believe that NewBie does not like LRI.. it's just that he wants to make sure that things are not like Fenix Lights... where 42 lumens claim come out to be actually 15 - 16 lumens.


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## ViReN (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

TIN, when I click on the FULL brightness and then press hold on 1/4 seconds, it enters in PWM mode... without any noticable drop in brightness, perhaps lightmeter will notice this...


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## Hans (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



Minjin said:


> Alright, we've established that Newbie doesn't like LRI and doesn't want anyone to buy the Proton. Can we move on to discussion from reviewers about the Proton that they have actually used?



Hm. Really? I don't think so. In particular, I don't think it's a question of liking or not liking the Proton, it's rather that he (and some others) pointed out some of the (potential) problems of overdriven LEDs. This is surely a good thing because it allows everyone here to make an informed decision about whether the Proton is the right light for him or her. (As an aside: Making such a decision isn't all that easy anyway in the excitement (and also hype) surrounding the release of a new product with lots of interesting features. And the Proton definitely falls into that category.)

My take of the the preceding discussion is that the Proton is probably not really the right light for you if (a) you want a bright light, that (b) can be used for long periods of time on full power without any danger of damaging the LEDs. If these caveats don't apply to you, the Proton seems like one of the most interesting lights around. If they *do* apply, you'd better think twice. Maybe a light with a Lux I or a Lux III is a better choice in such circumstances. 

Hans


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## Melchior (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

About the only thing I can find wrong with the Proton is the cost, and perhaps the possible overkill on the one button UI.

$60+ Is ALOT for a multi-led AA light.

One little button controling X features... hmmm.

So I would have to keep clicking in various patterns and lengths of time to get to mode X.

I'm pressing the button furiously to get it to the 3rd lowest Red led mode or something and a passerby says: "Your flashlight broken?", my reply "No I just want it in Mode 3, with the Red led on...".

But beyond that gripe; Looks like a 100% solid well thought out design.
(even rivals some of those $$$ custom lights IMHO)


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## ViReN (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



> $60+ Is ALOT for a multi-led AA light.



I dont think so... tell me... which light has multi uC Control.... and priced below $120 (ANY TYPE OF BATTERY/LED)

also, it REMEMBERS the mode that was last used... even after removing the batteries


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## 4sevens (May 26, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



ViReN said:


> I dont think so... tell me... which light has multi uC Control.... and priced below $120 (ANY TYPE OF BATTERY/LED)
> 
> also, it REMEMBERS the mode that was last used... even after removing the batteries



My L1P modded head with FluPIC with a cr2 body and three tritiums
is under 100  It's also got 10hz strobe and SOS modes too 

Second from the right:





It's the smallest cr2 clicky light with 20 level's of output
and it remembers the last setting


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## ViReN (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

4sevens  thats a great thing


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## NewBie (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



Minjin said:


> Alright, we've established that Newbie doesn't like LRI and doesn't want anyone to buy the Proton. Can we move on to discussion from reviewers about the Proton that they have actually used?
> 
> Mark




Actually, if you look back in the archives, I heavily defended LRI on the possibility of what the light could have been, in the face of many detractors.

Originally, as I recall, plans were for the long life Nichia Jupiter high power LEDs, with some red 5mm LEDs to flank it.

Unfortunately, they ended up with these overdriven 5mm LEDs in the end, just like the Inova X5, and as it turns out, it has the same Nichia CS LEDs in it.

The profit margins for using 5mm LEDs are extremely high in comparision, you are looking at under 1.80 total for the 6 Nichia white LEDs.

I'm not sure what drove their final decisions, you'd have to ask them.


Let me take you back in time:


CHANIK said:


> Re: LRI Proton prototype 60 lumens with 1 AA
> 
> Newbie pretty much hit the calculations on the mark. 3hrs would be more like runtime to 1/2 brightness of merely 30 lumens on a good NiMH. We are getting the best grade Nichia Jupiters which is what makes 60lm possible. No hype. LRI doesn't play the paper tiger game. If we didn't have it working already we wouldn't be showing it. It really cranks out 50-70Lm for over 1.5 hours runtime before starting to sag. We'll see what the production run of Jupiters consists of, but Nichia is not nearly as flakey as Lumileds when it comes to device specs. I don't know how you people put up with this Luxeon lottery crap. Would you buy a car that had a 50-150hp engine and just hope you got lucky with a powerful one? We've had Luxeon protoypes done for 2 years now and it is likely we will never make a luxeon based light.


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/870761&postcount=34


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## 4sevens (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Viren, Just to let you know. Overdriving and PWM is a negative for Mr Newbie
and should be for all knowledgable flashaholics. There are pros, but many
don't realize cons. 

To make Newbie happy, you have to present to him an uber-efficient LED that puts out 100 lumens/watt and is driven by a buck boost circuit with a broad V 
range like 0.5v to 24v and is minimally 95% efficient.

Excuse me while I step into my time machine set for 10 years ahead. 
Be right back....


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## onthebeam (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



4sevens said:


> My L1P modded head with FluPIC with a cr2 body and three tritiums
> is under 100 .
> It's the smallest cr2 clicky light with 20 level's of output
> and it remembers the last setting.



4sevens, does the clicky still work as the on /off switch for this setup?

If so, how can I join the party and get my L2P with CR2 body modded. It's my new beloved EDC but really needs multiple stages. Thought the new L1T head was going to get me where I wanted to be, but that's not the case. (Still like the L1T very much though. . . )


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## 4sevens (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



onthebeam said:


> 4sevens, does the clicky still work as the on /off switch for this setup?
> 
> If so, how can I join the party and get my L2P with CR2 body modded. It's my new beloved EDC but really needs multiple stages. Thought the new L1T head was going to get me where I wanted to be, but that's not the case. (Still like the L1T very much though. . . )



ut-oh... maybe somewhere down the line. If I can get some flupic boards
cheaper.  yes it still works as on and off. then you tap the switch without
turning it off to trigger various modes.... i think we should take this to another
thread  sorry viren...


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## LowBat (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



NewBie said:


> Originally, as I recall, plans were for the long life Nichia Jupiter high power LEDs, with some red 5mm LEDs to flank it.


Actually those two red flanking LEDs were 3mm. I still hold out hope that eventually a model like the prototype Proton will one day be available. I want the throw.


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## jar3ds (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

i'd love to get a fenix mod'd with a flupic but for me it serves no purpose... i already have an HDS which is REALLY similar... if the flupic could be ran off of alks, nimh, and 1.7 lithums i would be all about it... but since you have to run it off of a li-ion i find it has no point...

my purpose with a 1xAA flashlight comes from the desire to have:

1) a reasonable size
2) with the abililty to have mult. levels of light
3) AND most important... to be able to use alks, nimh, and 1.7 lithiums...

my HDS serves my regulated li-ion light... however for emergency EDC situations when I'm in Iraq, the proton seems to be the first light availble that acually has some features... i'm looking at the L1T but i'm sorta picky on my lower settings... i perfer to have 3 or better yet 4 levels of light... 

1) Max, 
2) 6.5/8 of max, 
3) 1/4 of max, 
4) .8/8 of max

the proton will give me this and i will gladly welcome the red led...

...

i would LOVE to have a 1xAA that used nimh, alks, 1.7 lithiums, *AND 3.6~4.2 Li-ions*...

i would mainly use the li-ion's... but having the options to use the other more typical battery types would be awesome...

i know the L1T can handle 4v which is awesome... but the lack of other features keep me away from it...

i just want the best 1xAA regardless of price...


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## BentHeadTX (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



jar3ds said:


> my purpose with a 1xAA flashlight comes from the desire to have:
> 
> 1) a reasonable size
> 2) with the abililty to have mult. levels of light
> ...



I am with you jar,
I've used LED lighting exclusively both times I was in Iraq and when the original Proton was announced, it was perfect. A Jupiter that would punch 60 lumens when needed, variable output and two 3mm red LEDs that were variable also. It would run on alkalines, NiMH and lithium AA cells and had a clip to attach to your belt. What was not to like? 
Fast forward 16 months later and there are a few things lacking. I am not wild about overdriven 5mm LEDs in hot environments and thin tail threads do not lend well to durability in the long run in the grit when changing batteries. Sure, it has a warranty but it does you no good to have a broken light in the worse possible situation. Say I recommend the Proton and the guys use it on max ALL the time since NiMH gives them "free photons"? They swap the batteries twice in a night and use it to fix vehicles, power generators etc and the light is bathed in HOT temps. 
For this reason, I recommend the Peak Pacific in either AAA (neck lanyard) or 1AA since the T bin LuxIII is way, way underdriven and can handle the HEAT. I lent out my 2D Mag with R2H LuxeonI driven at 800mA and the guys went through the 11,000mAH NiMH D cells in one night working on oxygen generators. (they removed the head for flood) It was extensively used for stacking sandbags at night in flood mode due to "free photons". They threw the head back on to look around the compound for security checks. The worse thing they did was remove the head for flood and light up the inside of a deep conex during the day... a nice dark green metal box baking in the sun. It was running for around 2 hours as people entered and exited and left the poor Luxeon screaming in the 140F (60C) heat. 
Would I lend those guys my FF3 and show them how to run it on max? Heck no! I would have a smoked light in 15 minutes so the light must be rugged in hot environments through the entire runtime. I doubt those Nichia LEDs would like to be run on max at 60C with constant NiMH battery swaps to keep it going for hours at a clip... for days, weeks and months. 

This is my version of the perfect AA light for desert use
Run on alkaline, carbon, NiMH, NiCad or lithium AA cells the light would adjust to the chemistry for increased output (li-ion would be a bonus)
Variable output ring and switch on barrel to choose red/white with reliable tail clickie for on/off. Tail clickie can be bypassed for twistie in case switch fails
Removable side clip to attach to belt, pants or whatever
Thermal monitoring of VWAH Luxeon K2 to prevent overheating
Automatic dimming when Luxeon starts to overheat for protection
Removable head to make a flood beam and have lens pop in place to protect LED
Three red 3mm LEDs that are variable
HA-III 
Real neck lanyard included
Decent holster included
Thick barrel to sink the heat, allow it to be run over by hummers and thick threads for multiple battery changes
Waterproof

I know the price would be up there... $125 or higher but it would fulfill most of my needs when playing in the desert. An option is to have one of the three red LEDs to be Cyan for NVG use. 

The original Proton would of been close, just add the thermal monitoring, thicker barrel/threading and I could pass on the other things. 

The Proton has made it to production so I can see LRI actually going ahead with a mil-spec version of the original design. For now, my Arc AAA red, Pacific AAA (lanyard w/lithium), Fire~Fly III (knife holster) and Mediterranean 2AA (holster with Leatherman) do the duty I need done. It would be nice to have the Pacific on a lanyard and two Proton mil-specs clipped to my belt/holster for simplicity but that will happen eventually. 

LRI has the technology and now that the Proton is out, they are probably working on the Proton II. I am watching to see how they adapt the Proton technology to more models that will be coming out eventually. For now


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## jar3ds (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

thats a good point on the ambient temp. issue in regards to iraq... i'm ashamed to say i haven't really considered that... i've been thinking about my nice AC and moderate outside temps here in the US 

thanks for your insight on your light usage while over there...

yeah the light you discribe i would buy one for $220 easy... just sadly the mass market probably wouldn't...

ideal light *1xAA* for me....

a good 17mm reflector with a ring of 3mm led's around it would make it slightly fatter than fenix but so awesome... i love the beam the 17mm gives off and with a lux3 it would be awesome... you COULD have uv, ir, red, blue LEDs... sink it to a nice copper plate and temp. manage it... double o-rings... basicly from there HDS style features... i don't like a rotational ring for selective output such as the U2... i rather have a dual button... a large one of the tail for the luxeon and a small one on the side for the 3mm led's... up to 4.2v


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## BentHeadTX (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



jar3ds said:


> thats a good point on the ambient temp. issue in regards to iraq... i'm ashamed to say i haven't really considered that... i've been thinking about my nice AC and moderate outside temps here in the US
> 
> thanks for your insight on your light usage while over there...
> 
> ...



The mass market won't pay $65 for a Proton either!  Maybe if LRI could produce the original concept light (60 lumen Jupiter with two 3mm red LEDs) put some HA-III on it and beef up the construction for $85 I think it would sell. Maybe have an optional switching version with the dual buttons like you say would be great. The two switches could also allow for programming how it turns on. For desert use, have the red turn on low and ramp up with the barrel switch and have the tail switch switch on the white led on low and ramp up. If you want it to turn on at max level on white and min level on red, having those dual switches should make programming a snap. Once in the A/C back in the states (or werever) you can reconfigure it to what your particular needs are for the light. Price it at $99.95 for the dual-switch HA-III programmable model with li-ion option and thermal sensor... life is good! 

It would be cool to use the "easter egg" function also. The dual switches would allow adding the right amount of red tint to the high flux LED when used at dimmer levels. Heck, multiple click both switches for adjustable strobe and SOS functions... why not? Two switches would make programming easy. 

Since I have a FireFly~III, the white light keychain programmable screamer is done. The output will absolutely crush a Fenix L1P and the Proton. The point of the original designed proton with dual controls and beefed up construction is usability. Even if it "only" maxes out at 45 lumens on white, the variable output of red and white would make it a keeper. Sometimes max output is not what you need, just the correct amount is fine, long runtime is critical and durability is paramount. I would pay much more than $100 but the price might scare people. Then again, can LRI bring out the Proton II with dual switching before some other manufacturer? I'd place a bet something along the lines of LRI's original design will show up in the market within a year... although it might not be made by LRI, I hope it will.


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## jar3ds (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

yeah.... i know this is sort'a a mute point... but i'd like to see if red is held it'll come on low then the longer you hold it'll roll up to high... if you click the side button instead of hold it'll turn red on high...

if white is held (the tailswitch) it starts at lowest then ramps up... if its clicked it goes to max


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## onthebeam (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



4sevens said:


> ut-oh... maybe somewhere down the line. If I can get some flupic boards
> cheaper.  yes it still works as on and off. then you tap the switch without
> turning it off to trigger various modes.... i think we should take this to another
> thread  sorry viren...



Yes, of course, my apologies if this inadvertantly hijacks the thread. So, best to move elsewhere. This is interesting stuff!!


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## ViReN (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

the thing is that.. Proton is...
1) 1 AA -- easily available.. including in Iraq (i guess)
2) Bright for its size.... will out do many lights easily... even features "Tint Control" to Incand
3) uC Controlled -- dimmability and flashing modes is a great plus
4) Small and easily pocketable
5) Easily Moddable...(you can easily replace it with a IMS 17 & SWOH Lux I) 

yet for around $70 ... it's still the cheapest available uC Controlled AA flashlight


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## xochi (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



ViReN said:


> xochi: I am sort of confused....
> 
> do you mean that Proton will not be as bright as Resistored Inova X5 ?



According to Quickbeam, the new inova is brighter than the Proton.

also,

Perhaps the "easily" in "easily moddable" is a bit enthusiastic. At least until someone actually manages to fit that stuff in there and make it all work. It would be a very nice mod if it could be made to work and somehow incorporate the red led. Once that is done, LRI could make a huge splash here on CPF by selling the driver minus the rest of the stuff. I doubt it would bite much into standard proton sales and LRI could generate a very favourable buzz on CPF.


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## Kryosphinx (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*



jar3ds said:


> i'd love to get a fenix mod'd with a flupic but for me it serves no purpose... i already have an HDS which is REALLY similar... if the flupic could be ran off of alks, nimh, and 1.7 lithums i would be all about it... but since you have to run it off of a li-ion i find it has no point...
> 
> my purpose with a 1xAA flashlight comes from the desire to have:
> 
> ...



Hey jar,
Goldserve makes a FluPIG that you stick between the driver and luxeon. The driver boosts power (meaning you can use alks, nimh, lithium primaries, or li-ion cells), while the FluPIG uses PMW to dim and change modes and whatnot. You can even ask him for special programming. 
If you use it in the L1P, you can have pretty much everything you asked for.


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## jar3ds (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

yeah... i thought about that but the flupig is 2V - 10V... 

thanks for the suggestion though!


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## hookoo (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

For testing purposes. It would be nice if someone serving in Iraq would use a Proton everyday and keep a backup on him just in case it does fail from the heat. It is covered under warrenty if there is a problem with it.


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## jar3ds (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

uhh.. i don't like the sound of guinny pigging a soldier.. but i will be up for the chanllege once i get there... however my HDS EDC U60GT is going to be my main EDC for obvious reasons


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## Quickbeam (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

[moderator hat on]

I kind of feel like I'm going to have to jump in here in official capacity.

This thread is:
1) getting awfully long
2) has gone way beyond review-related comments about the product

Please keep the posts appropriate for the REVIEWS forum instead of general discussion.

Thank you.

[moderator hat off]


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## Perfectionist (May 27, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

If there is an Array of LED's ..... as well as the Red LED, couldn't they put in say a Green, a UV and an IR LED ..... Super Versatile EDC !!!


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## ViReN (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

Oh... another OT Update.... but Related...

I just got the Light Meter ..... (el-cheapo) but functional (review pending )

However, this will now enable me to do some runtime testing on Proton


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## jar3ds (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Real Life Pics Added...*

cool... looking forward to a nimh runtime test!


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## Polar_Hops (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Quickbeam said:


> Remember folks, the x1.43 calculation to get Lumens is a VERY rough estimate - it may be off by a significant amount! The proton could very well be putting out more... Or the estimate may not apply to the lower end of the scale of outputs. Who knows? I'm not going to take the time to do a complete analysis just now.
> 
> The light was turned on to it's maximum when the readings were taken. No doubts in my mind.
> 
> ...




Quickbeam already did a runtime graph, here, where 100% (initial) overall output is 14.40 QBU (quickbeam units)


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## ViReN (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

Polar_Hops:  true.. but light is designed for NiMH for optimum operation... Alkaline & Lithium may not perform as good as NiMH could (i am yet to verify this)... that's why I intend to do a runtime test and to complete my review.


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## jar3ds (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

yeah polar... i know about the lithium and alks test... but we were wanting to see the NiMH ...

Also, there maybe an adjustment on Quickbeams inital overall output numbers he gave... we have talked in an IM and he said that when it gets his review finished on his site he will have the true numbers there...


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## ViReN (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***NiMH Runtime Added*

OK.. Here it is. Finally  .. also remember that this is my first ever runtime test using the light meter. I would be doing more tests using different setups... untill i develop a final rig which would give me consistant results


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## ViReN (May 29, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***NiMH Runtime Added*

OK, Final Runtime Test Complete... and Proton would last for *aprox 1:27 to 50%*, Also note that the RED LED switches ON when Battery Voltage goes around 0.9 Volts and around when 50% is reached.


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## BentHeadTX (May 29, 2006)

Great chart ViReN,
An hour 27 minutes on a 2000mAH NiMH AA cell is very good. Throw a 2500 or 2700mA cell in there and you'll have two hours of runtime. Although I personally would never run a variable output light at max that long it is good to know it will do it.


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## ViReN (May 29, 2006)

Thanks BentHeadTX 

I am just wondering why the Quickbeam's Lithium (3000 mAH) is showing such a strange graph... was it a 'dud' light that he got... or was it a 'dud' battery?


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## Quickbeam (May 29, 2006)

Why not ask me? 

I used the lithium battery included in the light - it was one of the older red-top lithium cells. No date on it. Since they have a 10 year shelf life, it should have been good, but who knows? :shrug:

I'll re-run the runtime test when I do the actual review.


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## ViReN (May 29, 2006)

Thanks Quickbeam.

It would also be great if you could do a NiMH runtime with higher capacity batteries, the RED light turns on exactly at 0.9 V under load.... so it would give you an indication..

I am also thinking of doing a Alkaline Runtime test.. although the light is not designed... and then compare it with your graph... this will give me some confirmation that my el-cheapo lightmeter & test rig are in order


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## BentHeadTX (May 29, 2006)

ViReN said:


> Thanks BentHeadTX
> 
> I am just wondering why the Quickbeam's Lithium (3000 mAH) is showing such a strange graph... was it a 'dud' light that he got... or was it a 'dud' battery?



Brightness might be missing from the equation. If the lithium pushes the LEDs to 62 to 64mA (each) and NiMH pushes them at 50mA each, the extra capacity will be burned up by driving the battery harder due to the higher voltage. Just a thought....


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## jar3ds (May 29, 2006)

good point benthead... i would have to agree... the nimh is prob. a little dimmer than the lithiums...

but with a 2700 Sanyo... over 2 hours is pretty good...

viren.... if you get a chance... run the proton with a nimh @ about 75%... see if it shows the regulation... thanks!


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## ViReN (May 29, 2006)

Yep  I will do these tests today evening....

Since My Light Meter does not have a computer interface, the test will be performed manually and it would be time consuming. I would be able to do at max 1 test per day while browsing CPF .... 

Today I intend to do 2 test's but not sure if I would be able to make it
1) Proton with 2000 mAH NiMH Full Power perhaps 90% (*Power Save Mode*)
2) (if time permits) Proton with Alkaline Full Power

I wish I had Sanyo2700 cells...  can some one donate single cell/a pair ?

At my local HyperMart, max that we get is Energizer 2500 (HR stamped at bottom) for around OMR 5 i.e. US$12 for 2 cells


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## ViReN (May 30, 2006)

OK  Here is the runtime with 92% Power.... Good thing is that it's Regulated....


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## jar3ds (May 30, 2006)

Viren your the man... i've been hitting refresh all morning like a moron 

very interesting... goes to show.... just by dropping the output a little bit it makes the light output more flat... and gave slightly more runtime... i would have expected more i think but on max the output is really shaky...

I ordered some 2700 sanyo's to complement my 2500 energizers... can't wait to try'em out when i get my proton...

BTW were these tests done with all the LED's on or just max white?

it would be interesting to know how long the red LED would last on high too 

thanks again viren for all the work you've done to present data for this light... 

just can't wait to get my own so i can present my own findings / data!


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## ViReN (May 30, 2006)

Here is the comparitive Chart for the above 2 runtimes.


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## ViReN (May 30, 2006)

jar3ds: I did tests with ALL White ON, I also expected the light to last a bit more, but some how it didnt.

RED would last for atleast 7-8 times that of All Whites, i.e. around 10-12 hours

Also Please note that the Light Output is MORE than that of my Fenix L2P by a considerable margin.


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## jar3ds (May 30, 2006)

well if the red would be unrealistic a 50% brightness on white would be interesting...

thanks!


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## ViReN (May 30, 2006)

I would be doing 50% with All White ON test tomorow (at same time)


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## jar3ds (May 31, 2006)

little old me


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## ViReN (May 31, 2006)

I am sorry... No updates today... as I came late from work today ... 

I am also looking for a Data Logging Light Meter for a cheaper cost... any ideas?

Manually taking readings is tiresome


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## jar3ds (May 31, 2006)

i bought a radio shack digital mult. meter...

it has included data logging software that connects to your computer...

i then just hooked my DMM led's to a solar panel and started the logging to log the volt. every minute... you get runtime graphs VERY fast... and they are really accurate if you can get it in a completely dark room which my closet is 

you don't get lux readings but there so random across everyone's light meters... only a IS can be used for that... at least my setup allows me to see what my lights are doing and what they will do for how long ...


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## jar3ds (May 31, 2006)

also, i would assume the larger the solar panel the better... my solar panel is 26cm by 13 cm...


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## ViReN (May 31, 2006)

they say that you should measure current and not voltage ... I too have solar cells.. but they say it's not more accurage unfortunately 

Oh on the topic... The Proton I noticed Switches RED led ON when battery voltage reaches 0.9 Volts.... and I find this feature as a Battery Saving Feature for NiMH cells...

ViReN


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## jar3ds (May 31, 2006)

yes that is a nice feature! Current you say? Why would it matter either way?


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## ViReN (May 31, 2006)

with increase in Light over the Solar cell, Voltage generated Saturates earlier as compared to Current Saturation. so if you have a really bright light .... and still a bright light... then both will show Max Readings... 

Proton Over the days has been the first light to reach everytime i look for the light... the prefered light comes in to hand is Proton. I have now removed the KeyChain Attachment and the Belt Clip, it feels a Lot smaller now and easily becomes invisible in hand....


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## jar3ds (Jun 1, 2006)

ViReN said:


> with increase in Light over the Solar cell, Voltage generated Saturates earlier as compared to Current Saturation. so if you have a really bright light .... and still a bright light... then both will show Max Readings...
> 
> Proton Over the days has been the first light to reach everytime i look for the light... the prefered light comes in to hand is Proton. I have now removed the KeyChain Attachment and the Belt Clip, it feels a Lot smaller now and easily becomes invisible in hand....


 interesting obvservation about the size once the keychain/elt clip is removed...

i like almost all my lights with as less bulk to them as possible. My HDS U60 i can't stand with a clip or anything on it... i prefer it loose in my cargo pocket, go figure... I was already going to remove those items... your observations now confirm my actions now once i get it...

:thumbsup:


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## brightnorm (Jun 1, 2006)

I notice that the o-rings are rubber, not synthetic, so make sure you don't use petrochemical derived lubricant.

Brightnorm


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## brightnorm (Jun 1, 2006)

Deleted - duplicate post


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## jar3ds (Jun 1, 2006)

brightnorm said:


> I notice that the o-rings are rubber, not synthetic, so make sure you don't use petrochemical based lubricant.
> 
> Brightnorm


 good point.... i'll keep my silicon greese around 

viren... are you waiting for better testing equipment before you do a runtime test @ 50% white? Thanks again for all your help that you've provided us with the light!


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## ViReN (Jun 2, 2006)

Yeaterday I had started the 50% test but I had to go outside.... and had to prematurely stop the test.

The current test is running now


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## diggdug13 (Jun 2, 2006)

Has anyone heard when photon will be shipping these?



doug


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## jar3ds (Jun 2, 2006)

it was the end of may... now its supposed to be early june... so hopefully before the 15th of June...


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## ViReN (Jun 2, 2006)

OK .. Here it is  the 50 % Graph. It would last 3 hours 50 50% and FULLY Regulated till 2:45.
Also, I would like to Quote the Relative Brightness.... the numbers with Same Setup. _(these are Overall Brightness Numbers, Light is NOT directly falling on the Sensor, Similar to Quickbeam's Milk Box)_
1) for 1 Nichia CS DD'ed at atound 60 mA = 100 Lux x 10 (roughly 10 % Brighter than Arc AAA Premium)
2) for Fenix L2P with 1 AA Cell, Brightness is around 370 Lux x 10 and Fenix L2P with 2 Cells is around 550 Lux x 10
3) for Proton with 1 AA Cell, Full Brightness, It's around 770 Lux x 10

and Here is the Graph 






Comparitive Picture is Here





This is nearing the end of my review process... only reliability over time test remains... now.. and so far.. no issues since past couple of weeks. works exactly as advertised 

I also feel need to consoliate the review in first 3 threads reserved. this will enable users to view all the review at a glance and then read the comments there on.


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## jar3ds (Jun 2, 2006)

:bow: Thank you so much Viren for all your work! Very amazing! The comparision #'s are VERY interesting...

Got'a go eat lunch but i'll be back to think through all this wonderful info!


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## ViReN (Jun 2, 2006)

I thought of including the #'s because it would be giving a good idea of the runtimes and relative brightness... 

for instance, the 50% would be 3 times brighter than Arc AAA (which lasts 5 hours, not as regulated as Proton) and Proton would last for 3 hours with Full Brightness.


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## BentHeadTX (Jun 2, 2006)

ViReN,
The Proton running in 50% mode is great! No worries about heat problems in screamingly hot desert conditions and flat regulation on NiMH cells. Sure, it won't scream out light but that is what my FF3 and LuxV Mag are for.


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## chimo (Jun 2, 2006)

Viren, I would be curious to see a run-time test with a battery chemistry that does not have a flat discharge curve like the NiMH. Can you pop in an alkaline and run another test? This would give a nice picture of the driver's regulation and not as much an indication of the battery's discharge curve. Cheers,

Paul


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## jar3ds (Jun 2, 2006)

am i the only one who doesn't really care about regulation? as long as your getting a long enough time above 75% of the output why does it matter? I think this applies even more to a mult. level flashlight...

My Quad that runs the same LED's has a hard time regulating the output... but it stays above the 80% output mark until like 4 hours with NiMH... 

i guess it would only really matter if you run primaries because that way you don't waste your batteries... but if your like me and pretty much use nothing but rechargeables... i don't see why it matters so much...

as for scientific knowledge.. sure i would like to know.. but in practical use... i don't know why it matters?


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## chimo (Jun 2, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> am i the only one who doesn't really care about regulation? as long as your getting a long enough time above 75% of the output why does it matter? I think this applies even more to a mult. level flashlight...
> .
> .
> as for scientific knowledge.. sure i would like to know.. but in practical use... i don't know why it matters?



Well, since this is a review thread (not Cheers and Jeers  ), it would make sense to cover the spectrum of capability of the light - including all of the batteries is will accept. 

I suspect there may be a few others that may not care about regulation. You will not know about the 75% for alkalines until it is tested.

If you happen to be stuck somewhere and only have access to primary cells, it is practical to know how long the light will run on them.  

I asked about alkaline cells because Lithium and NiMH cells have a very flat discharge curve and can make many drivers appear to have much better regulation than they actually have. I am simply curious about the driver in the Proton. LRI has mentioned that the light may be moddable - this testing may help us establish our arcs of fire.

Paul


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## ViReN (Jun 2, 2006)

chimo said:


> Viren, I would be curious to see a run-time test with a battery chemistry that does not have a flat discharge curve like the NiMH. Can you pop in an alkaline and run another test? This would give a nice picture of the driver's regulation and not as much an indication of the battery's discharge curve. Cheers,
> 
> Paul



Sure  I would do it tomorow.... Will Pop up one Alkaline..


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## jar3ds (Jun 2, 2006)

chimo said:


> Well, since this is a review thread (not Cheers and Jeers  ), it would make sense to cover the spectrum of capability of the light - including all of the batteries is will accept.
> 
> I suspect there may be a few others that may not care about regulation. You will not know about the 75% for alkalines until it is tested.
> 
> ...


 i'm sorry if i came off a little harsh.... i agree... i would like to know too for science reasons...

i guess i just get fustrated at the people who only like PERFECT regulation but I look at more that the longer the tail the longer i have in an emergency to change the batteries... i rather have MAX as bright as it possibly can be, hence not a flat reg... but more of a perfect negitive slope... the other settings... yes regulation would be nice...

sorry again  no hate on my follow CPF'ers :rock:


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## chimo (Jun 2, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> i guess i just get fustrated at the people who only like PERFECT regulation but I look at more that the longer the tail the longer i have in an emergency to change the batteries... i rather have MAX as bright as it possibly can be, hence not a flat reg... but more of a perfect negitive slope... the other settings... yes regulation would be nice...



You raise a good point about the "tail" portion. 

Some people would prefer perfectly flat regulation. Unfortunately, that flatness comes at a cost of increased current draw as the battery drops in voltage. 

Some others would prefer a gradual decline so that they can tell when their battery starts to die.

My ideal solution would be flat regulation and then a gradual tail (or a drop in output). That one's a little harder to design.  

Paul


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## :)> (Jun 2, 2006)

Maybe I am too superficial but this is an ugly light and it needs to get a facelift. 

I did not have time to read the 10 pages of posts so I hope that I am not re-stating what was already said. 

-Goatee


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## jar3ds (Jun 2, 2006)

nope.. your the first to complain about the looks... i could care less how a light looks if it functions the way i want


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## jburgett (Jun 2, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> am i the only one who doesn't really care about regulation? as long as your getting a long enough time above 75% of the output why does it matter? I think this applies even more to a mult. level flashlight...
> 
> My Quad that runs the same LED's has a hard time regulating the output... but it stays above the 80% output mark until like 4 hours with NiMH...
> 
> ...



One reason it matters to me is that I have 3 kids. As such, I have an endless supply of "left-over" half-depleted AA cells. If a light has good regulation, it may be able to step-up the lower voltage and use up what is left in the cells. I don't have to worry about not having another charged Nimh around, and remembering to keep the depleted cell for recharging. 

So. . . I'd love to see an alkaline discharge curve, including the tail.

Thanks to Viren for all his efforts in getting us the info!

(I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of my pre-ordered Proton...)


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## ViReN (Jun 3, 2006)

Here is the Alkaline 50% Runtime. This was conducted with 10 for $2 Generic Alkaline with "ecocell" Alkaline Technology (at back, it writes Marketed by Eveready, SA)






also note that after the test was over, I let alkaline to recover and the output was back to 200 Lux x 10 level falling again in about 10 minutes... 

Here is Comparitive Graph updated





I _might_ get Energzer or a Duracell Ultra (these ones are expensive here ...) and try to Pop one of these for runtime.


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## jar3ds (Jun 3, 2006)

hum... alk's seem to be considered 'emergency' than practical cells.... 

i think i'll stick to my 2700mah Sanyo's! 

edited:

Viren sorry we all keep pestering you for info  

But it would be interesting to have a fenix 1 cell on a nihm to compare output and runtime on the graph with all the photon's graphs.... its up to you though... i know your busy! 

edit again:

your relative brightness numbers comparing the Fenix L2P/L1P to the Photon seem to be inline with your real life pics!


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## chimo (Jun 3, 2006)

Thanks for doing this Viren! :thumbsup:

Paul


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## Mr. Blue (Jun 3, 2006)

howzabout a lithium AA cell on your graph?


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## ViReN (Jun 3, 2006)

Currently Proton on Generic Alkaline cell with Full Blast are on... Perhaps tomorow, I will be able to conduct a L2P with 1 NiMH will be realistic.

Also To note that Proton is mainly designed for NiMH Battery, testing Performance on Alkalines and Lithium's will be truely in 'scientific' / CPF spirit.


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## jar3ds (Jun 3, 2006)

full blast? all 7 LED's?

oh nm... i bet its the 6 whites on max...


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## ViReN (Jun 3, 2006)

nah Whites only. all runtimes are with only whites. this is because, i wanted to know the functionality of red led... and also wanted to protect the only NiMH cells that i have brought here.... the Red LED saves NiMH .... very nicely


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## adirondackdestroyer (Jun 3, 2006)

Viren,

Thanks for all the info on this light. I don't want to annoy you, but I was hoping you could do a runtime/output test with a Energizer Lithium AA. I think it might out do the NIMH cells in runtime, which would be quite impressive. 
Even though I was initially disapointed with the output of this light, I am starting to come around on it, and I think it still might be the camping light I have been looking for.


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## jar3ds (Jun 3, 2006)

quickbeam did the lithium test


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## d1337 (Jun 3, 2006)

Quickbeam did a lithium test but that battery could have been a dud.


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## brightnorm (Jun 3, 2006)

chimo said:


> ...Some others would prefer a gradual decline so that they can tell when their battery starts to die. My ideal solution would be flat regulation and then a gradual tail (or a drop in output). That one's a little harder to design...


 
Or perhaps tail-end "warning blinks" a la M6-R. I like your ideal solution but I have never seen it on any light.

Brightnorm


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## Mr. Blue (Jun 3, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> quickbeam did the lithium test


Yes, but I wanted to see a different test on the same graph...


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## ViReN (Jun 3, 2006)

The runtime test for Generic Alkaline on Full Blast is done, Will post results today evening(tomorow morning in US).

I also be able to do a Lithium Runtime today.  and post the results together.

Generic Alkaline results for Full Blast (whites only) are not far off as compared with Quickbeam's results that he had done earlier.


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## nemul (Jun 3, 2006)

good work ViReN, keep it up!


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## ViReN (Jun 5, 2006)

OK, Here are the Graphs, I am sorry I could not update it last night.

Day before yesterday's Runtime ....Interesting Facts here.... Alkaline.... looks Dissapointing.. but Hey.. wait a minute, after the runtime test, in an hours time I accidently clicked the ON button for Proton, was surprised to see the light back to life... So I decided to continue the runtime test and found interesting result.... look below 






Last night I was able to a Lithium Test, It appears around 2 Hours of some what regulated Output. have a look here. Also, note that overall output is more than NiMH by a good margin.





here is the comparitive picture for all tests till now


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## 4sevens (Jun 5, 2006)

Whoa those lines look kinda wavy/bumpy.

I totally understand. Your hand gets kinda tired and it's hard to hold
still for 2 hours! Been there done that.


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## jar3ds (Jun 5, 2006)

Viren your the man.... thanks for doing this... VERY interesting on the alks.... 

Lithiums looks like excellent backups for the Proton... Very nice...

I hate to ask... but seems that a 1xAA NiMH test from a Fenix is all we need to compare these two lights in overall brightness and runtime...

Thanks again Viren... Hopefully since its already the 5th of June... we'll be getting these lights soon... I'm used to waiting for my flashlights though (Jil Intelli) lol...


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## ViReN (Jun 5, 2006)

Sure  I will be doing one for fenix L2P with 1 NiMH & Dummy today, Since all this is manual test, I can perform at most 1 test per day, while browsing the net in the evening / night.


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## ViReN (Jun 5, 2006)

4sevens said:


> Whoa those lines look kinda wavy/bumpy.
> 
> I totally understand. Your hand gets kinda tired and it's hard to hold
> still for 2 hours! Been there done that.



lol... I aint holding the light for 2 Hours  its just stable... the light output is the way that is shown  

perhaps, since I am taking manual readings at every 5 minutes interval might be causing. I wish I had a good Automated Runtime Test equipment .... perhaps things would be smoother... but basic nature of curve will remain same.


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## ViReN (Jun 5, 2006)

oops... Double Post


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## ViReN (Jun 5, 2006)

Sure  I will be doing one for fenix L2P with 1 NiMH & Dummy today, Since all this is manual test, I can perform at most 1 test per day, while browsing the net in the evening / night.


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## jar3ds (Jun 5, 2006)

ViReN said:


> Sure  I will be doing one for fenix L2P with 1 NiMH & Dummy today, Since all this is manual test, I can perform at most 1 test per day, while browsing the net in the evening / night.



care to repeat that? :lolsign:


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## Rob187 (Jun 5, 2006)

Another big thanks to ViReN for all your work testing this light.

Now if they would just ship the damn thing....


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## ViReN (Jun 5, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> care to repeat that? :lolsign:



Sorry, for teh double post.

Just one update, Fenix Runtime for Comparitive Output test is begun .. and under progress.. however I will be posting it tomorow (by US Evening/night...)


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## jar3ds (Jun 5, 2006)

it was a tripple post... thats why i commented... check post #404... lol...

Thanks Viren... can't wait to see the results!


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## ViReN (Jun 6, 2006)

OK  Here it is... Surprising Facts... the Fenix Overall Output is near 50% of Proton. Fenix L2P with Single NiMH runs shorter too...





Comparitive Picture


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## jburgett (Jun 6, 2006)

ViReN said:


> OK  Here it is... Surprising Facts... the Fenix Overall Output is near 50% of Proton. Fenix L2P with Single NiMH runs shorter too...



WOW! Now THAT is an eye-opener!


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## TrueBlue (Jun 6, 2006)

I understand the Fenix is the perfect 5 star light at FlashlightReviews.com and CPF members. The Proton seems better. The best a Proton could do is match the 5 star rating of the Fenix unless someone invents a 6 star rating or down rates the Fenix.

_From ProtonLight.com- *5/23/06 Update:* As of today, the estimated arrival date has been pushed back a couple weeks, which puts the ETA at "early-June". I know many of you are anxiously awaiting the release, as are we, and everyone at LRI is working diligently to make sure that all is right and to get the Proton delivered as quickly as possible._

_Please Photon_…is early June now. I want to enjoy my light like the others are doing.


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## 4sevens (Jun 6, 2006)

ViReN said:


> OK  Here it is... Surprising Facts... the Fenix Overall Output is near 50% of Proton. Fenix L2P with Single NiMH runs shorter too...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm trying to figure this out here...
The first graph you have the 
L2P with one cell at around 3400 lux and
the proton at 50% at around 3300 lux 

Then the second graph the
L2P with one nimh is around 590 lux and
the proton at 50% on nimh 320 lux

The first graph shows they are close in output,
the second graph has a much greater discrepancy.
Plus your lux readings don't match. Is the first
graph with zero distance between the light
and the meter? :scratchhead:

btw I'm waiting for a proton too! I've got one on order!


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## Frenchyled (Jun 6, 2006)

LRI Proton is ***HERE*** claim this thread....but we didn't see ours


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## jar3ds (Jun 6, 2006)

thats almost exactly what I thought it would do compared to your original overall output lux readings comparing the Proton to the Fenix...

thats crazy... and i've heard a L2P running on 1xAA is better than a L1P... so that really shines some light on the subject of 1xAA lights...

i thought though that the Fenix may have had a slight edge in the runtime length though... but dang... i'm speachless (well not really)

Viren you are the man! No more requests to you for runtime tests! This is all the data we all need to draw serious conclusions about the Proton... Can't wait for this baby...



4sevens said:


> ...
> 
> Then the second graph the
> L2P with one nimh is around 590 lux and
> ...



hi 4sevens

the second pic is hard to see where the Proton comes out on the lux reading... but from glancing its aprox 350lux... which is consistant with the larger graph... I'm not seeing your L2P @ 590lux....

-Jared


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## ViReN (Jun 6, 2006)

Just to Clarify, these figures are OVERALL OUTPUT, similar to MILK BOX readings of Quickbeam. Except with a difference that mine is a Shoe Box 

4sevens: Green Colors is difficult to recognize.. that 590 figure you are seeing is green too... but that's Proton 92% PSM please see the Green near to Blue line... that one is the one for Fenix

just quoting from #374 (my first relative brightness comparison performed at the time of 50% Proton Runtime test.)


> Also, I would like to Quote the Relative Brightness.... the numbers with Same Setup. (these are Overall Brightness Numbers, Light is *NOT* directly falling on the Sensor, Similar to Quickbeam's Milk Box)
> 1) for 1 Nichia CS DD'ed at atound 60 mA = 100 Lux x 10 (roughly 10 % Brighter than Arc AAA Premium)
> 2) for Fenix L2P with 1 AA Cell, Brightness is around 370 Lux x 10 and Fenix L2P with 2 Cells is around 550 Lux x 10
> 3) for Proton with 1 AA Cell, Full Brightness, It's around 770 Lux x 10



If you want I can post "Throw" Numbers, the Throw is Definately more for Fenix and Numbers would also be like wise. Fenix is also a good light for sure, no doubt about it, except for the reflector rings... I like the regulation with 2 AA Alkalines.


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## NeoteriX (Jun 7, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> I understand the Fenix is the perfect 5 star light at FlashlightReviews.com and CPF members. The Proton seems better. The best a Proton could do is match the 5 star rating of the Fenix unless someone invents a 6 star rating or down rates the Fenix.
> 
> _From ProtonLight.com- *5/23/06 Update:* As of today, the estimated arrival date has been pushed back a couple weeks, which puts the ETA at "early-June". I know many of you are anxiously awaiting the release, as are we, and everyone at LRI is working diligently to make sure that all is right and to get the Proton delivered as quickly as possible._
> 
> _Please Photon_…is early June now. I want to enjoy my light like the others are doing.


 Maybe not, if you take "price" into account.


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## jar3ds (Jun 7, 2006)

NeoteriX said:


> Maybe not, if you take "price" into account.


 well... as far as price goes... i wouldn't consider that too much of a factor...

ok for a L1T $44.50

the Proton $62 (depending on if you do the preorder, its $70 if not)

*an $18 difference between the two*

The Proton is putting out a LOT more overal light compared to the data and pictures here on this thread.... yeah throw isn't as much but for a personal pocket light.... usally throw is used less than flood... 

However the proton adds so many 'smart' features to the table it leaves the fenix in the inteligence dust... To have the choice of almost hundreds of power levels from 0-100%, to be able to access a red LED, and white... using the same button.... to have other strobe features... location blink... etc etc... 

i just think that most people who are already going to cough up $40 bucks on a light won't mind spending a little bit more if they get all the features with the proton...

however, there will be those who will only use luxeons, who like nice tight throw style reflector beams, and are paranoid about 5mm led's... for those people they still have an awesome choice in the Fenix...

For a person like me... who doesn't own any AA light... the proton will be welcomed in my collection


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## Cmoore (Jun 7, 2006)

If LRI does not start shipping the pre-ordered Protons soon, they are going to get some hate mail.


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## ViReN (Jun 7, 2006)

well said jar3ds 

Proton, again is a very good light for what it is, the flood, the dimmability and additional red LED, 'tint control' are definately a Plus plus other features are very good as well.


I can also say that Fenix (L2P) that I have is a really good light for what it is. Regulation and Simplicity. It has Thick Walls, anodized threads, sandblasted before HAIII... etc... all pluss. It is my replacement for MiniMag 2AA and will be used where I need throw. I am thinking of buying one more Fenix L2P (if Available) from 4sevens (PM on way)....


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## ViReN (Jun 7, 2006)

Cmoore said:


> If LRI does not start shipping the pre-ordered Protons soon, they are going to get some hate mail.



I hope they do


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## PhotonLight (Jun 7, 2006)

Good news! The first batch of Protons has arrived and LRI is currently going through each and every one to test and make sure everything is correct. The operating instruction sheet is being finalized and as soon as all this is done, we should be able to start getting some Protons shipped out. This first shipment was fairly small so we may not be able to ship all of the pre-orders with this first bunch but there's more on the way. I'm waiting at the moment to hear back from Cyndee to get some idea exactly how many Protons we can expect and how soon the operating instructions will be ready.


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## d1337 (Jun 7, 2006)

:rock:


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 7, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> Good news! The first batch of Protons has arrived and LRI is currently going through each and every one to test and make sure everything is correct. The operating instruction sheet is being finalized and as soon as all this is done, we should be able to start getting some Protons shipped out. This first shipment was fairly small so we may not be able to ship all of the pre-orders with this first bunch but there's more on the way. I'm waiting at the moment to hear back from Cyndee to get some idea exactly how many Protons we can expect and how soon the operating instructions will be ready.



While this is certainly promising news, how the heck can the operating instructions not be ready? As far as I know, the function/feature of the light has been set for some time. You mean to tell me this was not workeds in parallel to the light being manufactured?

Come on Bryan, I know you're only the messenger who tries to keep us in the loop and handles our questions, but this is just ****-poor planning in my opinion.

Please tell me that I don't know the entire story or behind the scenes facts, so I can apologize for acting like a fool. I'd much prefer that, rather than thinking LRI was that shortsighted not to have had the operating instructions completed months ago.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 7, 2006)

*I'm about ready to cancel my order.*


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## PhotonLight (Jun 7, 2006)

Basic operating instructions have been done for a while. As I understand it, this is just a few last-minute changes that are needing final approval. I'm sorry if the comment caused any needless alarm.  In any case, we should be able to start shipping Proton pre-orders Friday.


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## planex (Jun 7, 2006)

Sweet!! Can't wait to get mine:rock:


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## aceo07 (Jun 7, 2006)

I'm waiting for more positive reviews before I make the dive. It would be my 2nd most expensive light if I got it. Just need the extra push..

Come on flashlightreviews and ledmuseum!


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## PhotonBoy (Jun 7, 2006)

ace07: "I'm waiting for more positive reviews before I make the dive. It would be my 2nd most expensive light if I got it. Just need the extra push.."

It's really going to be a subjective decision: do I like flood or do I like throw plus a bit of flood (e.g. Fenix L1T)? This light seems to be a reasonable attempt to get a bit of throw plus a lot of flood combined with multiple output levels. Personally, I think the market overall favors throw plus a bit of flood. I think it's related to how the human eye and brain work together. Outdoors, you sometimes need lots of throw and this light won't give it, IMHO.

I hesitate to mention it, but Inova has a patent on 'cups' surrounding 5 mm LEDs helping to create more throw, so it should be interesting to see if there's a patent infringement here....


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## ViReN (Jun 7, 2006)

just for information... Inova has Patent involving Protection of led's in Solid Encasement of LED's and LED's are recessed inside the shell. it reminds me of Classic Peak LED's Case. After they change their design, things got rolling again.

For Proton, The Design is totally Different, if you look at it in detail, it looks similar but definately NOT enclosed in Metal Shell. The Reflector Honeycoamb is placed above the LED's.


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## PhotonBoy (Jun 8, 2006)

A cup is a cup is a cup. Reminds me of the question: "How many angels dance on the head of pin?" ... or more probably: "How much does Inova want to spend suing LRI?"


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## jar3ds (Jun 8, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> Good news! The first batch of Protons has arrived and LRI is currently going through each and every one to test and make sure everything is correct. The operating instruction sheet is being finalized and as soon as all this is done, we should be able to start getting some Protons shipped out. This first shipment was fairly small so we may not be able to ship all of the pre-orders with this first bunch but there's more on the way. I'm waiting at the moment to hear back from Cyndee to get some idea exactly how many Protons we can expect and how soon the operating instructions will be ready.


 can i get a woot woot ...

I'm glad you guys are testing these lights first... I would hate to get a defective one or something after this wait ...

Thanks for keeping us posted! Looking forward to the Proton...


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## jar3ds (Jun 8, 2006)

ViReN said:


> well said jar3ds
> 
> Proton, again is a very good light for what it is, the flood, the dimmability and additional red LED, 'tint control' are definately a Plus plus other features are very good as well.
> 
> ...


 I know what your saying Viren...

After looking @ the Fenix line up again.... including the new LT(1/2)'s... The L2P seems to be the best model... you can use the 123 tube if you want... you get CRAZY regulation.... 

some of the best regulation i've ever seen for two alks... i think i may just pick one of these beasts up 

Has anyone ran a li-ion in it? for a total of 4.2~3.6v? I'm assuming we'll be overdriving it.. but


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## Craig720 (Jun 8, 2006)

ChocolateLab33 said:


> *I'm about ready to cancel my order.*



Then do it and quit complaining.


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## chimo (Jun 8, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> After looking @ the Fenix line up again.... including the new LT(1/2)'s... The L2P seems to be the best model... you can use the 123 tube if you want... you get CRAZY regulation....
> 
> some of the best regulation i've ever seen for two alks... i think i may just pick one of these beasts up



Hey, I thought you didn't care about regulation....  :nana:


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## jar3ds (Jun 8, 2006)

chimo said:


> Hey, I thought you didn't care about regulation....  :nana:


 well... for the most part i don't... however on primary cells I do... if i have two alk's... i want to get all the high brightness juice i can out of it..

however on the proton... i doubt my battery will ever fall under 70% of full capacity because as soon as it does i'll just charge the nimh back up again... same with almost all my other lights... hence why i only really like lights that can be ran with rechargeables


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## TrueBlue (Jun 9, 2006)

A member has complained the price of the Proton light is too high and says the Fenix light is a better value. The Fenix is cheaper and gives less.

With a slightly higher price, the Proton gives better value and more functions then the Fenix light. The Proton light has multi-functions while the Fenix is very basic. With his excellent review ViRen has shown us the Proton has a perfect white beam tint. The Proton does so much more. With a natural looking beam tint, excellent beam output plus the multi-functions, the versatile Photon light value beats the basic Fenix light.

The Fenix quality has been problematic. The quality track record from LRI could prove an advantage for the Proton light.

The year and a half wait for the light is the only problem with the Proton light. I hope the extended delay isn’t because of a simple instruction book.

I bought the Proton light. It is giving so much more.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 9, 2006)

I believe the true comparisions can start over the next couple weeks, when folks start getting their lights. In the meantime, has anyone recieved a shipping notice? I don't recall if LRI usually sends out notices or not.


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## Martyr (Jun 9, 2006)

I just got my shipping notice.


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## ViReN (Jun 9, 2006)

now *THAT's NEWS* 

Kewl


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## underdust (Jun 9, 2006)

I just received my shipping notice too!!


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## PhotonLight (Jun 9, 2006)

It looks like we'll be shipping all pre-orders placed through 5/19 with this first bunch of Protons. Shipping confirmations have all been sent. We're still waiting for news on when to expect the next shipment, but as soon as I hear anything I will post an update.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 9, 2006)

I ordered on 05/09 and have yet to recieve a shipping notice.


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## MikeF (Jun 9, 2006)

Kewl, I ordered my 2 on 04/25/06 so they may be on the way!!!

No shipping notice received however.

:rock: :goodjob:


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## javafool (Jun 9, 2006)

I ordered on 5/16 and am waiting for my shipping notice. I'm sure the flashlight will be on the way.


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## jar3ds (Jun 9, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> It looks like we'll be shipping all pre-orders placed through 5/19 with this first bunch of Protons. Shipping confirmations have all been sent. We're still waiting for news on when to expect the next shipment, but as soon as I hear anything I will post an update.


 i ordered mine on the 5/16... but no email?


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## planex (Jun 9, 2006)

Ordered 5/15. Still waiting for my email as well.....


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 9, 2006)

javafool said:


> I ordered on 5/16 and am waiting for my shipping notice. I'm sure the flashlight will be on the way.



Based on what can you make this statement?


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## PhotonLight (Jun 9, 2006)

I'll be out of the office the rest of the afternoon, but if you send an email to Rudy (custservice at photonlight.com) he can look it up for you and tell you if it shipped. Or call us at 1-877-584-6898.


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## planex (Jun 9, 2006)

Just got confirmation after I emailed Rudy at photonlight that my order placed 5/15 will ship today!! Hopefully I will have it on Monday:rock:


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## Rob187 (Jun 9, 2006)

Order placed 05/05. No email. What's going on here?

Update: An email to customer service at photonlight advised me my Proton has been sent today. Hoorah!


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## planex (Jun 9, 2006)

See post 451. Just email photonlight and they will confirm shipping status.

Update: Just received my regular shipping confirmation email. My guess is that since they are in Pacific time they are still in the process of getting these out the door. I imagine that everyone will be getting their shipping confirmations who ordered 5/19 or earlier within the next few hours.


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## quantile (Jun 9, 2006)

I got my shipping confirmation email a few minutes ago, so they are still being sent. Order was placed 5/17.


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## MikeF (Jun 9, 2006)

I just got a phone call from Rudy at Photon Light after emailing him as advised by Bryan, and he verified that my Protons will ship today!! I got a confirmation email as well!! LRI is working very hard to provide great service.


:lolsign: :goodjob:


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 9, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> I ordered on 05/09 and have yet to recieve a shipping notice.



I just recieved my confirmation message. My order has shipped. :rock:


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## loalight (Jun 9, 2006)

yep, shipping notice received here too.


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## nemul (Jun 9, 2006)

mine shipped! woohoo!


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 9, 2006)

*mine shipped also! yeh. I'm glad I didn't cancel my order.*


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 9, 2006)

Craig720 said:


> Then do it and quit complaining.


 

*I'm not complaining, nor have I complained once about this light on this thread so keep your comments to yourself. *


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## hookoo (Jun 9, 2006)

Mine shipped today as well. And I live very close to their office. With some luck I will see it tomorrow


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## aceo07 (Jun 10, 2006)

I'm interested in how the red led helps in giving objects more dimension. Leds makes things seem flat. Especially for puddles in the at night.

I'd like to see pictures comparing regular luxeon/leds vs the proton with all the leds(white/red) on shining on a puddle.


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## Frenchyled (Jun 10, 2006)

Ordered on 4/20, shipping notice received, can't wait


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## javafool (Jun 10, 2006)

aceo07 said:


> I'm interested in how the red led helps in giving objects more dimension. Leds makes things seem flat. Especially for puddles in the at night.
> 
> snip



Hey aceo07,

Unless puddles have waves, they really are flat any time of the day or at night, LOL. Sorry, I'm just teasing but I couldn't resist
My Proton is also on the way!

Terry


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 10, 2006)

Does anyone recall if we had an option to choose our shipping method or carrier? I don't recall if LRI uses USPS Priority Mail be default or not.


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## MikeF (Jun 10, 2006)

The last order I got from LRI for two Violet Freedom Micros, I opted for cheapest shipping which was USPS, and it arrived two days after I placed the order in Denver from California.
When I go through the ordering process again for two more presale Protons, there are several options available from LRI:
1. Free First Class Mail for orders over $50.
2. Free USPS priority mail for orderd above $100, and $4.50 if less than $100.
3. UPS Ground at $5.43.
4. UPS 3-day select at $9.00.
5. UPS 2-Day Air at $11.86.
6. UPS Next Day Air Saver at $25.63.
7. UPS Next Day Air at $27.93.
I couldn't remember which one I selected either, so I checked back and since I ordered two I got free USPS Priority Mail. The shipping option was not spelled out on the shipping confirmation from yesterday, but the timing is perfect. If I receive them by Friday, I will be Golden for presents for my Father and Father-in-Law for Father's Day!!!


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## W4DIZ (Jun 10, 2006)

Ordered on 4-21. Shipped on 6-09


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## The_LED_Museum (Jun 10, 2006)

aceo07 said:


> I'd like to see pictures comparing regular luxeon/leds vs the proton with all the leds(white/red) on shining on a puddle.


Sacramento has a semi-arid climate; puddles would be exceedingly difficult to find at this time of the year. If I still lived in Seattle, I might very well be able to furnish this photograph to you. oo:


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## aceo07 (Jun 10, 2006)

It's been really rainy over here in Boston. I used the HDS EDC U60 last night walking outside and it's difficult to tell how deep the puddles are. The light from lampposts and moon worked better.


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## d1337 (Jun 10, 2006)

I just noticed that the LED Museum review has been posted. 5 stars


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 11, 2006)

d1337 said:


> I just noticed that the LED Museum review has been posted. 5 stars


 
Thanks for that information!!!


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## jar3ds (Jun 11, 2006)

now i'm kicking myself for not getting next day air... lol


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

... so, is anyone anticipating getting their Proton today? I have my wife on heightened alert to keep an eye out for the mailman.


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

i doubt mine will show... i did the standard free shipping... i keep pesimestic so that i won't be disapointed... if i get it by friday 

if someone gets theirs please share though... also give some quick reflections of the light... any review info would be greatly loved


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> ... so, is anyone anticipating getting their Proton today? I have my wife on heightened alert to keep an eye out for the mailman.



Ohhhhhhhh baby. The wife just called me to let me know my package arrived. Unfortuneately, I won't be home for another 4-hours.


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

what kind of shipping did you order?! You lucky duck!


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## InfidelCastro (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Perfectionist said:


> Holy Crap !!! Looks like the Proton actually isn't going to be worth the wait
> 
> Regulation = err what Regulation !
> Super Bright = Super Average !
> ...




Not to mention the crappy threading and goofy bezel switch without momentary. Was really hoping for alot more out of this light.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

Because I purchased (2) of them at once, I got the free USPS Priority Mail shipping on an order over $100.


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

dang it i should'a got priority.. i wonder how long first class will take... your all the way across the country too


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## powernoodle (Jun 12, 2006)

Ok - got mine. So how do I remove the belt clip? Instructions say " . . . pull from top of clip firmly." But this ain't working for me.

Edited: stuck the pliers from a Leatherman S2 in between the body and clip, and pried her out. Even with my superhuman Powernoodle strength, I couldn't do it by hand.

 


cheers


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

powernoodle... what shipping did you select? mind telling us where your underground bunker is in relation to the US? lol...

whats your impressions?!

---

Edit: MINE CAME!


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## powernoodle (Jun 12, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> powernoodle... what shipping did you select? mind telling us where your underground bunker is in relation to the US? lol...
> 
> whats your impressions?!
> 
> ...



Mine shipped on friday and arrived on monday, about 2300 miles away, using USPS first class. So I suspect that most of the eager beavers who pre-ordered will get them today or tomorrow.

First impression is a good one. I like the user interface as I'm familiar with the Freedom Max. Comes with a nice belt holster. Clip is sturdy, tho I abandoned mine. Keychain attachment clip too. I can tell its plenty bright even tho darkness hasn't arrived. 

Upside: easy UI with plenty of features; I like the various flashing/strobe modes in both white and red LED modes; plenty bright for most tasks, and low output ramps down to zilch, which I really like. That will come in handy at the movie theater. Nice lifetime warranty. Eats any flavor of AA. Maker is an established and known entity with a good rep.

Downside: costy; not flat regulated like we all prefer - which is the biggest downer for me but not a deal breaker. [Edited: regulation looks pretty good on NiMH - see the link below to Viren's chart]. Split ring almost impossible to remove without advanced degree in microsurgery, as its attachment point is recessed in the tail of the light. SOS feature has probably never been used in the history of mankind and gets in the way. The cost and regulation are the more important issues for me; the other stuff is quibbling.

Powernoodle gives the Proton a thumbs up.

I would recommend something else for those on a tight budget, as there are lots of lights out there that one could get by on just fine, and for a lot less money - but don't have the bells and whistles. This is a luxury item, a temporary fix for the addicts among us (me), and/or another good EDC option, depending on your needs.

cheers


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## Dawg (Jun 12, 2006)

Just got mine out of the mailbox. Its cool.


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

i'm having problems getting it out of 'demo' POP mode...


> If your Proton will only stay on for a few seconds then turns off, simply open the battery compartment and then re-close it. (The Proton's circuitry is designed with a Point of Purchase demonstration mode and is a true function of the light. If you wish this to be an option as part of your lighting modes, first you must open the battery case. Then press and hold the button down while you re-close the case. Your light will now be in the POP mode and will only stay on for 6 seconds. You will have access to the brightness control modes for both Primary & Secondary beams, however you will not be able to activate the Safety Features. To exit the POP mode, press and hold the button down until the light turns off.)



anyone else have any luck... mines not getting out of this mode no matter how many times i open / close it

*EDIT:

I FIGURED IT OUT... you have to press & hold the button down for like 15 seconds... then it goes off ...*


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## MikeF (Jun 12, 2006)

Both of mine were waiting for me when I got home from work!


:rock:


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## TrueBlue (Jun 12, 2006)

The Proton lights are arriving. ARC mania and Katokichi are each getting one so you see I’m not being greedy. We have plans.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 12, 2006)

powernoodle said:


> Ok - got mine. So how do I remove the belt clip? Instructions say " . . . pull from top of clip firmly." But this ain't working for me.
> 
> Edited: stuck the pliers from a Leatherman S2 in between the body and clip, and pried her out. Even with my superhuman Powernoodle strength, I couldn't do it by hand.


 
Personally, I think the instructions might be clearer if they read "pull from *base* of clip firmly." Grip the clip right where it attaches to the light and pull outwards. I suspected the "pull from top" line might lead to a bit of confusion and suggested the change but it looks like it didn't make it into the final version of the instructions (or at least not yet). If you have any suggestions for an even clearer way of describing that, or if there's anything else on the instruction sheet that doesn't make sense, I'll be happy to forward on any feedback. There should still be time to make some changes before the next bunch arrives.

Also, for those wondering, it looks like we're currently averaging 2.6 days for 1st Class Mail delivery over the past month.



Minimum 1 day, max 12 days (which I assume is due to notices being left and people taking a while to go pick up the package).


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## TrueBlue (Jun 12, 2006)

Proton #1 is dead. The positive tab inside the barrel was lightly soldered on a flexible rod. I simply screwed off the barrel and the positive tab fell out. Luckily, the tab hit my foot so I knew something fell out. I replaced the battery and the light didn’t work. Unluckily, the tab bounced under my dining table where darkness is frequent. Luckily, I had the reliable SF L4 light nearby and 5 minutes to spare to find the tab.

There is no way to put the tab back. The head is glued on tight. Even using rubber gloves to unscrew the head had no luck. I’m going to try to warm up the head to see if I can weaken the bond. If I don’t then I get to try the lifetime LRI warranty.

If other Proton lights have as lightly soldered tab as the first one I tried then there are going to be a lot of returns.


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Proton #1 is dead. The positive tab inside the barrel was lightly soldered on a flexible rod. I simply screwed off the barrel and the positive tab fell out. Luckily, the tab hit my foot so I knew something fell out. I replaced the battery and the light didn’t work. Unluckily, the tab bounced under my dining table where darkness is frequent. Luckily, I had the reliable SF L4 light nearby and 5 minutes to spare to find the tab.
> 
> There is no way to put the tab back. The head is glued on tight. Even using rubber gloves to unscrew the head had no luck. I’m going to try to warm up the head to see if I can weaken the bond. If I don’t then I get to try the lifetime LRI warranty.
> 
> If other Proton lights have as lightly soldered tab as the first one I tried then there are going to be a lot of returns.


 that sucks... i've taken out my battery and put it back in about 20 times already and it hasn't fell out... hopefully its limited to only a few protons...


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## loalight (Jun 12, 2006)

Just got mine. Initial impressions:

1) it fits PERFECTLY into the side pouch on a Leatherman Charge sheath. Awesomeness!!!

2) instructions could be clarified, and i'm sure they will be, but you'll certainly blunder into what you want in any case

3) although it did call my mommy to tell her I snuck home from work to get the mail, the tint isn't angry. petulant, perhaps? 

3.5) I really haven't had time to look at the tint, but it seems good in the center with a yellowish halo. Craigs spectrophotometer graph made me happy- it's got a reasonable amount of spectrum coverage, boding well for real world usage.

4) if you like your photon freedom 2x, you will likely find this light useful.


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## InfidelCastro (Jun 12, 2006)

So where's this ***NiMH Runtime chart added*** mentioned in the thread title? I've been through every page and can't seem to find it. I see the alkaline and lithium ones.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 12, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> If other Proton lights have as lightly soldered tab as the first one I tried then there are going to be a lot of returns.


 
TrueBlue, please give LRI a call at 541-925-3741 and speak to Leo before experimenting with disassembling your light. The best thing would be to just let LRI replace the light for you, but I understand you're excited and want to get your new light working immediately. If you're set on attempting the fix yourself, please talk to Leo first and he can walk you through the disassembly & repair process so that you don't end up damaging your light in the process.

We did see this happen with one of the lights in the initial sample-run and this is specifically one of the issues that LRI has been going through the lights and individually checking for, so hopefully this is the only one that slipped through. Normally, there should be a mechanical connection to take the pressure off the actual solder joint. In any case, please give Leo a call. Hopefully this is an isolated incident.


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## x-ray (Jun 12, 2006)

InfidelCastro said:


> So where's this ***NiMH Runtime chart added*** mentioned in the thread title? I've been through every page and can't seem to find it. I see the alkaline and lithium ones.



It's Here


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## Mr. Blue (Jun 12, 2006)

UPS MISROUTED MINE!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH


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## powernoodle (Jun 12, 2006)

That NiMH graph does show some good regulation - whether its the Proton or the batteries that are doing it. Powernoodle likes!

cheers


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## javafool (Jun 12, 2006)

My Proton arrived in Clearwater today. It is not a cheap flashlight, but none of their lights are what I would call low priced. I really like the features, the single AA power, and the option of all the brightness levels plus lower light for a long runtime. It has a lot of pluses that no other flashlights currently in the marketplace have. I'll be keeping mine.


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

my proton has a slight hum to it... its cool... it only hums on white... and its REALLY faint...

it changes pitch as you dim the white LED's... cool


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## TrueBlue (Jun 12, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> TrueBlue, please give LRI a call at 541-925-3741 and speak to Leo before experimenting with disassembling your light. The best thing would be to just let LRI replace the light for you, but I understand you're excited and want to get your new light working immediately. If you're set on attempting the fix yourself, please talk to Leo first and he can walk you through the disassembly & repair process so that you don't end up damaging your light in the process.
> 
> We did see this happen with one of the lights in the initial sample-run and this is specifically one of the issues that LRI has been going through the lights and individually checking for, so hopefully this is the only one that slipped through. Normally, there should be a mechanical connection to take the pressure off the actual solder joint. In any case, please give Leo a call. Hopefully this is an isolated incident.



I chickened out and left the light alone. I just contacted Leo, nice guy. You should be getting a Proton returned for repair in two days.


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## nemul (Jun 12, 2006)

got mine!


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Proton #1 is dead. The positive tab inside the barrel was lightly soldered on a flexible rod. I simply screwed off the barrel and the positive tab fell out. Luckily, the tab hit my foot so I knew something fell out. I replaced the battery and the light didn’t work. Unluckily, the tab bounced under my dining table where darkness is frequent. Luckily, I had the reliable SF L4 light nearby and 5 minutes to spare to find the tab.
> 
> There is no way to put the tab back. The head is glued on tight. Even using rubber gloves to unscrew the head had no luck. I’m going to try to warm up the head to see if I can weaken the bond. If I don’t then I get to try the lifetime LRI warranty.
> 
> If other Proton lights have as lightly soldered tab as the first one I tried then there are going to be a lot of returns.



I just experienced this same failure in (1) of my (2) lights. I was taking the tailcap off to replace the battery and heard something hit the floor. I was able to retrieve the piece and compared it with my working light and can see where the tab is missing. This really sucks.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 12, 2006)

That doesn't sound good.:thumbsdow I just now got mine by UPS. I'll test it later.


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> I just experienced this same failure in (1) of my (2) lights. I was taking the tailcap off to replace the battery and heard something hit the floor. I was able to retrieve the piece and compared it with my working light and can see where the tab is missing. This really sucks.


 oh no..... :-( please not a design defect


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## nemul (Jun 12, 2006)

everytime i cut mine off, 1 sec. later the red led flashes.. plus i cant get all (red+white) the leds on at the same time... the egg wont work! lol

last min changes?


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

I gotta say guys, I'm really dissappointed with this light. The tint is horrible. I've never seen so much yellow in a light before. We all know the runtime sucks and there's no regulation. The clip is nice, but there's no easy way to remove the keychain attachment for candlestanding useage. The negative contact assembly in the tailcap looks like some high-school kid designed it for a school project and the positive side bezel contact (which has fallen off on one of my units) appears to be a very flimsy design feature. I'm hoping I don't drop this one working light. I have fears that this light will continue to work after a fall onto a hard surface.

I can honestly say, this light is a big letdown for me. I'm hoping my opinions will change over the next few days.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

nemul said:


> everytime i cut mine off, 1 sec. later the red led flashes.. plus i cant get all (red+white) the leds on at the same time... the egg wont work! lol
> 
> last min changes?



I haven't tried to get both red and white on at the same time, but I do get a flash of red everytime I power-off.


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

i can get all the LED's on... just get it to max brightness in red... then hold again.. it'll start to go into the modes... when you see your first blink... turn it off... then turn it right back on in white... they'll both be on...



> TIN:
> "I gotta say guys, I'm really dissappointed with this light. The tint is horrible. I've never seen so much yellow in a light before. We all know the runtime sucks and there's no regulation. The clip is nice, but there's no easy way to remove the keychain attachment for candlestanding useage. The negative contact assembly in the tailcap looks like some high-school kid designed it for a school project and the positive side bezel contact (which has fallen off on one of my units) appears to be a very flimsy design feature. I'm hoping I don't drop this one working light. I have fears that this light will continue to work after a fall onto a hard surface.
> 
> I can honestly say, this light is a big letdown for me. I'm hoping my opinions will change over the next few days."



its interesting because i'm pretty happy with the light... the tint i knew would be the way it was... its exactly the way the pt quad is... blue center with yellow sides... however, tint really isn't that big of a deal to me... i guess i'm already experienced with the Nichia 5mm's so its no biggy... its still white in use... same goes for regulation... the quad had inital issues with it and the only way to really solve it is to lower the output... so i'm glad that the higher settings are at least there... even if they're not perfectly regulated... the lower settings are pretty regulated... the runtime doesn't really suck... as compared to Viren's overall output runtime charts... its running longer that the Fenix L2p (with one cell) even though the proton has to be ran @ 50% to match the Fenix's... 

as far as the candle mode goes... i took off the split ring... theres not really a point to have it on a light this size at least for me...

keep in mind that the review (insert name here) did... he did wack the sucker against concrete and other stuff..... but yes I'm concerned that what we have is a complete design flaw and not just a lack of good soldiering... 

i agree however that the contacts currently are my biggest fear...


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



ViReN said:


> Wow.. Loads of Questions  I would like to answer One by One...
> 
> 1) Yes the Light can stand on the Tail (if you remove the keychain attachment)
> 2) Bezel Pictures Updated
> ...



Now that I actually have the light, I can answer some of these questions. Note that my answer will somewhat differ from yours.

#1, that's assuming you never desire to put the keychain attachment back on. There's no easy way to remove it without causing permanent damage and even if you could, I don't see how the average human could re-install it.

#5, that's right, it's not blue............... it's the pissy'est yellow I've ever seen in a light. It's certainly not the same LEDS used in either the latest generation Arc-P lights or the Peak Snow lights.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 12, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> I haven't tried to get both red and white on at the same time, but I do get a flash of red everytime I power-off.


 
The brief flash of the red when you turn it off is normal. The white LEDs are obviously way brighter than the red and having all 6 of them on drowns out the red pretty effectively if you are staring down the barrel of the light. I have to cup my hand around the head of the light to block off a lot of the white to confirm that the red was in fact on.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



this_is_nascar said:


> I'm really looking forward to this light. Initially, I swore not to get one because of the 5xLED configuration instead of the initial 1xLED concept. I'm glad I took a step back and did the pre-order. This light seems pretty exciting and I've always liked the LRI interface. I"m wondering about size (it looks big for a 1xAA light), but I've made that mistake before.
> 
> I've re-looked at ViReN's pictures again and still don't understand the tail-standing capabilities. Does the end-clip come off similar to the Peak lights?



Sometimes one has to not so quickly discount his/her initial intuition.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 12, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



this_is_nascar said:


> #1, that's assuming you never desire to put the keychain attachment back on. There's no easy way to remove it without causing permanent damage and even if you could, I don't see how the average human could re-install it.


 
Use your fingernail or other appropriate tool to spread one end of the ring slightly so that you can get it started. Once you have it started, just rotate until it comes off. No tools necessary, no permanent damage, and I can confirm that my Proton now stands on its tail just fine. Took me about 20 seconds.


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## PhotonBoy (Jun 12, 2006)

Regarding clip removal: some time ago, I read a tip here on CPF... slide an ordinary dull kitchen knife under the clip, with the backside of the blade toward the tail of the light. Use its blade to help pull the clip off. I don't have this light (yet??), so YMMV.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 12, 2006)

PhotonBoy said:


> Regarding clip removal: some time ago, I read a tip here on CPF... slide an ordinary dull kitchen knife under the clip, with the backside of the blade toward the tail of the light. Use its blade to help pull the clip off. I don't have this light (yet??), so YMMV.


 
The Proton is a little trickier since the attachment point is recessed slightly, but the principle is the same. You might need a smaller knife though.


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## PhotonBoy (Jun 12, 2006)

Regarding clip removal: I read a tip on CPF sometime ago.... slide the blade of a dull kitchen knife under the clip near the tail of the light. Use wide area of the knife blade to help apply additional removal force on the clip. I don't have this light (yet???), so YMMV; I can't provide a photo demontrating this tip. It's easier to do than to describe.

(Note to server dude: I had to re-type this entry since I got a 'Server too busy error' --- GRRRRRR!!)

<edit>: Darn, looks like the first one DID work after all....


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## nemul (Jun 12, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> i can get all the LED's on... just get it to max brightness in red... then hold again.. it'll start to go into the modes... when you see your first blink... turn it off... then turn it right back on in white... they'll both be on...



thanks that worked!


............................
i'm happy with mine too so far...


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## jar3ds (Jun 12, 2006)

nemul said:


> thanks that worked!
> 
> 
> ............................
> i'm happy with mine too so far...


 np


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## Cmoore (Jun 12, 2006)

Mine worked fine as I tested it in all modes for about 10 minutes of total use. Then it failed while off and now it won't light up at all. 

Excluding the failure of my Proton, my initial and cursory impression of the light is that I found battery change to be a pain as the tail cap is small, requires some force to screw back on, and the threading not very robust -- easy to cross thread if you are not careful. There is even a warning about cross threading on LRI's single sheet of instructions for the Proton.

I will get an RMA from LRI tomorrow to exchange the light. I'll reserve my overall opinion of this light pending receiving another.


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## Dawg (Jun 12, 2006)

Photonlight, I am a manager in a factory. We manufacture all number of things. I have to tell you that you have a winner. Take off the keychain. The pocket clip can be drilled at the top close to the outside edge and a splitring and keychain can be included for those that want it. You will then have the option of attaching a lanyard for neck carry and it will not interfere with tail standing. 

I would not have offered the removal of the clip as an advertised option. Just gives the mechanically disinclined something to screw up and complain about. The clip is one of the best I have used to date. This will take over my right front pocket and my Peter Atwood TT tanto will be pressed into full time neck carry.

The reason most formost, why I stated that you have a winner? My employees. They all love it and want to know when and where they can get one. They make average 7 to 8 dollars an hour and would be willing to spend the price to get one. They are going nuts over it. They love the fast strobe and the dimming capabilities. And not one of them complained of the tint.

By the way. I got my keychain off with no problem. Thanks! I needed one for a new Ledean CR2 mini mini mag that is coming. This is the nicest pocket carry light I have seen excepting some of the mega buck esoterica that no one has the Huervos to carry in their pocket anyway. :twothumbs


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## planex (Jun 12, 2006)

Overall this is a great light. The tint is just fine. Great features, nice compact size. The only issue I have so far is that the pocket clip makes it very difficult to thread the tailcap. I had to bend my clip so it was no longer pressed against the body.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

Keyring successfully dissconnected.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 12, 2006)

There was another failure of the same type (positive thingy fallen off) posted in another thread. This is not a good sign. I did a runtime test using Duracell alkaline. I'll post those results tomorrow night. Right now, I'm metering the light using a Battery Station AA cell and I'm getting much better results. When that's done, I do the same with an Engerizer E2.


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## Dawg (Jun 12, 2006)

planex said:


> Overall this is a great light. The tint is just fine. Great features, nice compact size. The only issue I have so far is that the pocket clip makes it very difficult to thread the tailcap. I had to bend my clip so it was no longer pressed against the body.


I too thought that at first. But after carefull examination, I was able to replace the cap with no problem. It is something not to be taken for granted though. Not something I would want to attempt in the dark. Once you do it a few times it gets easier. The clip would have bent away from the body slightly after pocketing it a few times anyway.


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## Vizzini (Jun 13, 2006)

My Proton arrive today, and after a quick function check, I decided to put a regular alkaline battery in instead of the nice lithium L91 it shipped with for testing. Out from the package comes a new Duracell and into the light it goes--nothing. Remove Duracell replace L91--Proton works again. Replace L91 with Panasonic NiHM--everything still works. Try alkaline bunny battery--no problems. Put in another new Duracell after checking with a battery tester to make sure it's good--again, nothing. It looks like my Proton doesn't like copper tops! 

Except for this weird battery rejection I'm impressed with the light. I wonder if the behavior I'm seeing is related to the battery contact problems others have experienced.


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## nemul (Jun 13, 2006)

first thing i did was remove the clip and keyring/splitring.. i hate stuff hanging on my light.. i'll use the pouch..
the battery thing worries me a little, i hope mine doesn't fall out, cause this is my new EDC for a little bit...


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## underdust (Jun 13, 2006)

My light arrived today too, but I think it may have a problem with the red LED. The white LEDs work great, but the red one won't come on at all. 

When I press and hold the button to try to turn on the red LED, the white ones flash very briefly, but the red LED does not come on no matter how long I hold the button down. After attempting to turn on the red LED, the next time I click the button, nothing happens at all. I assume that this would be the click that would turn the red LED off if it was working.

My initial impression, though, is that I like it. The interface is great, it's small and light, and definitely bright enough for my purposes. 

Unfortunately though, I think it will probably have to be sent back. Bryan, how should I proceed with returning/exchanging?


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## PhotonLight (Jun 13, 2006)

underdust said:


> Unfortunately though, I think it will probably have to be sent back. Bryan, how should I proceed with returning/exchanging?


 
For all those who have experienced a problem with their Proton, please send me a PM or an email with your order # & email address and I will email you a pre-paid return label to send it back to LRI for the repair. If you could give a brief description in your message again of the problem you are having, I would appreciate it as I am trying to keep track of the failures as they come up.

*Edit: It appears the email function on the board may not be working properly as I have not received any emails despite reports of a couple being sent. For the time being, please email me directly at bryan at photonlight.com or send a PM.*


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

i wonder if its something with the stock battery for the reason for the positive contact issues...

My logic tells me it couldn't have anything to do with it... but I never activated my proton with the lithium battery it came with... i took it out before ever turning on the light and put in a 2700 Sanyo... i haven't had any issues with the + contact...

I'm just sad from this light... its very, very awesome... i have had no problems... but can i trust this light? I'm in the military and going to Iraq... I can't have this kind of problem because it won't be easy for me to take advantage of the customer service no matter how good it is...

i would say that the tailcap/thread issue is one of the most anoying aspects of this light... its very finicky and I have to be REALLY careful... it makes a gladius tailcap look easy...

however, like I said the light is excellent.... bright, functions great.... the only scare i have is 'can i trust it?'

hopefully time will heal this i'd feel a lot better if Photon/LRI just issued a new design without a soldiered + contact? It just makes me so sad that this light has been under development for SO long... and they do this with a + contact? I find it SO hard to believe this issue wasn't fixed or at least noticed during trials and testing...


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## InfidelCastro (Jun 13, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> I gotta say guys, I'm really dissappointed with this light. The tint is horrible. I've never seen so much yellow in a light before. We all know the runtime sucks and there's no regulation. The clip is nice, but there's no easy way to remove the keychain attachment for candlestanding useage. The negative contact assembly in the tailcap looks like some high-school kid designed it for a school project and the positive side bezel contact (which has fallen off on one of my units) appears to be a very flimsy design feature. I'm hoping I don't drop this one working light. I have fears that this light will continue to work after a fall onto a hard surface.
> 
> I can honestly say, this light is a big letdown for me. I'm hoping my opinions will change over the next few days.




The yellow hue of Nichia's doesn't bother me so much as the blue edges and blue that ends up in the center of the beam. How much blueness is in the beam? Is it typical Nichia? I'm fairly unimpressed with the NimH runtime graph as well. A light has to be pretty lacking as far as regulation circuitry to have a NIMH graph that looks like that.

I really love having a red LED on the light, but so far I see nothing even remotely that makes me want to ditch your (my  ) L2T.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 13, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> hopefully time will heal this i'd feel a lot better if Photon/LRI just issued a new design without a soldiered + contact? It just makes me so sad that this light has been under development for SO long... and they do this with a + contact? I find it SO hard to believe this issue wasn't fixed or at least noticed during trials and testing...


 
As I mentioned somewhere, this issue did come up with one of the initial production samples and was supposed to have been fixed. In the case of that first unit, it was apparently an issue of the tab having been installed incorrectly. I am a bit dismayed to see some lights coming up with this problem now, especially considering that this is one of the issues which LRI has been specifically watching out for. It may be that the QC testing method to check for this needs to be looked at, or perhaps a few lights just managed to slip through. In any case, you can be sure that we (both LRI & PhotonLight.com) will do whatever it takes to make sure that everyone ends up with a properly functioning light that they can feel comfortable relying on.


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> As I mentioned somewhere, this issue did come up with one of the initial production samples and was supposed to have been fixed. In the case of that first unit, it was apparently an issue of the tab having been installed incorrectly. I am a bit dismayed to see some lights coming up with this problem now, especially considering that this is one of the issues which LRI has been specifically watching out for. It may be that the QC testing method to check for this needs to be looked at, or perhaps a few lights just managed to slip through. In any case, you can be sure that we (both LRI & PhotonLight.com) will do whatever it takes to make sure that everyone ends up with a properly functioning light that they can feel comfortable relying on.


 thanks Bryan for your understanding and help! You really make this whole situation much better...

I'll give you guys the benifit of the doubt  Thanks! Just keep us posted on the findings... I am very thankful for your honesty in general about these lights... a lot of companys aren't so willing to give info but it makes me much more willing to trust you guys...

again I would like to state again how much I really like this light... its function and brightness is everything I could ever ask for...

*Regulation:*

as far as regulation goes... if indeed the proton is cranking out twice the output of the Fenix oh high.... how in the world would it be able to maintain perfect regulation? Its just not possible with current materials/technology... from a 1xAA source you just can't get perfect regulation if the output is put to this height...

I showed earlier from my Quad headlamp that the 4 nichia LED's have a similar problem with its regulation but is putting out a lot more light than my EOS (lux1)... sure on medium the quad has excellent regulation... but is it Princeton Tec's fault for not having electronics in the Quad able to regulate high brightness? when you consider 1xAA... I think this is pretty impressive... 

I'll do a 75% output runtime test and hopefully post it by 2pm tuesday... i guess I'd rather see a brighter light that doesn't have regulation on HIGH as long as I have the option to have a brighter light... 

i guess I don't expect, and I don't think others should expect fantastic regulation with a light brighter than the Fenix running off of a 1xAA alk... 

*also, some could look at it like that the HDS U60's LED could out put more than 60 lumens... but it couldn't do it regulated... so they opt'd to drop the output to 60 lumens to get that perfect slope=0 regulation... but I'd like to have the option to get a higher brightness without the regulation if I wanted it... but it seems a lot of people here even on lights that are rechargeable would rather have less output but with good regulation... I just don't look @ rechargeable lights that way...*


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## ViReN (Jun 13, 2006)

Wow.... Loads of responses 

I am happy that the light is out and some of you have liked it.
It is unfortunate that there is Contact Issue. My unit works perfectly without any issues.

Clip and Keyring were easy to remove for me, without any tools. Clip required more force for sure  

also just wondering, when people are complaining about Yellow Corona...
1) if you take an Arc AAA ... every one likes... and then multiply it by 6, which will look like the Proton's Beam... and proton is disliked for Yellow Corona?
2) Leave Arc AAA, but Other Lights who are using Nichia CS, every one likes.. but not proton?

Surprising... indeed.


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

yea... people who complain about the tint i doubt use their lights in all practical reason... most people who will complain are flashlight jewlery wearing people... and i agree... its not my HDS GT... but for what it is its fine... its not THAT bad... it does give more of a 3D effect than my HDS GT...

*also, i just got done testing my proton and HDS U60 GT in my work bathroom.... doing the ceiling bounce test... the proton is brighter than the 4th setting (~21.21 lumens) but not brighter than level 2 (~42 lumens)... its pretty much right on the line of level 3 (30 lumens)... might be helpful*


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## ViReN (Jun 13, 2006)

jar3ds, thanks for your bounce test, did you use meter to check the bounce?

I do not have HDS 60, but when I compared with Fenix L2P, It's Definately brighter than Fenix.


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

no.... i just used my eye... so i could be wrong...

tomarrow @ this time I will post real data's using my meter... i'm @ work and didn't bring it


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 13, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> For all those who have experienced a problem with their Proton, please send me a PM or an email with your order # & email address and I will email you a pre-paid return label to send it back to LRI for the repair. If you could give a brief description in your message again of the problem you are having, I would appreciate it as I am trying to keep track of the failures as they come up.



Thanks Bryan. PM sent with information.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 13, 2006)

With my Freedom to the Max Photon, I have the ability to run the light at 50% power, by pressing until white LED 1st comes on, releasing, then pressing again to ramp up to maximum brightness.

I believe this can also be done on the Proton, following the same procedures, however that's for the RED LED. Can it be done to the Photon for the WHITE LEDS as well?


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

i don't think the white can be ramp'd up... basicly it starts out @ max... you can dim it as many times as you want... but if you want brighter light you need to click the switch twice and start over... slightly anoying but once you get used to it its fine...

i know i heard the same thing but i think its just a differnet UI...

TIN, inside your 'good' proton... what does the positive contact look like? a V or a flat piece of metal?


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

BTW got a runtime test going on max white... i'll post my own review thread once its done


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 13, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> BTW got a runtime test going on max white... i'll post my own review thread once its done



Great. I won't be able to post mine until tonight. I know that I got much better performance from a Battery Station cell than I did with a Duracell alkaline. I need to find where I stached my Engergizer E2 cells for that test as well.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 13, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> i don't think the white can be ramp'd up... basicly it starts out @ max... you can dim it as many times as you want... but if you want brighter light you need to click the switch twice and start over... slightly anoying but once you get used to it its fine...
> 
> i know i heard the same thing but i think its just a differnet UI...
> 
> TIN, inside your 'good' proton... what does the positive contact look like? a V or a flat piece of metal?



It looks like the picture in post 501.


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

you guys aren't going to believe my runtime graph...


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## TrueBlue (Jun 13, 2006)

I have two Proton lights that were going to be shipped to Japan. Until I can make sure the lights will work, they will say in the US. I can compare the positive contact between the two. The light on the left has a flat positive tab and the one on the right is V shaped. 

The light with the V shaped tab is much harder to put the tail cap on. The pressure of the clip tends to push the tail cap off center. The fine threads on the body/tail cap make it hard to know when to twist the cap in place; it is more guesswork then practice. I believe there is a good chance of cross-threading the tail cap. It is hard to put the tail cap on when a battery is installed. And once in a while the tail cap pops off because of the pressure of the clip pushing on the tail cap.


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> I have two Proton lights that were going to be shipped to Japan. Until I can make sure the lights will work, they will say in the US. I can compare the positive contact between the two. The light on the left has a flat positive tab and the one on the right is V shaped.
> 
> The light with the V shaped tab is much harder to put the tail cap on. The pressure of the clip tends to push the tail cap off center. The fine threads on the body/tail cap make it hard to know when to twist the cap in place; it is more guesswork then practice. I believe there is a good chance of cross-threading the tail cap. It is hard to put the tail cap on when a battery is installed. And once in a while the tail cap pops off because of the pressure of the clip pushing on the tail cap.


 i have the same thing happening to mine... however the threads are good enough to keep the tail on with some decent strength...

its a PITA to get the tailcap on though... i have to REALLY make sure i got everything good to go before i commit to screwing it on... i've got'n pretty good now with practice... 

i'm wondering if this 'version' of the proton (as sad as that is to say) is the correct one, since I've had no problems @ all?

EDIT:

*I say again... you guys aren't going to believe my runtime graph*


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## peskyphotons (Jun 13, 2006)

Hi all,

I received my proton yesterday and I am a bit underwhelmed. I was really expecting more output, sure does not seem like 50 lumens. I wish there were a simple way to test. I am finding that the tailcap is quite poor. It is difficult to grip, (needs some knurling) and I have less than one thread holding it on. The threads on mine are also galling and tending to crossthread. I think I will send this one back.

Thanks,
Alex


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 13, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> you guys aren't going to believe my runtime graph...



Ok, so that's twice you mentioned this. Are we supposed to guess or are you going to tell us? All I need to know is more than an hour or less than an hour?


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

... ... its more... you'll have to wait and see


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 13, 2006)

peskyphotons said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I received my proton yesterday and I am a bit underwhelmed. I was really expecting more output, sure does not seem like 50 lumens. I wish there were a simple way to test. I am finding that the tailcap is quite poor. It is difficult to grip, (needs some knurling) and I have less than one thread holding it on. The threads on mine are also galling and tending to crossthread. I think I will send this one back.
> 
> ...



I agree concerning the output and potential crossthreading. I trying my best to like this light, but there are too many forces against that happening. So far, the only good things I can say is that 1) it accepts an AA-sized cell and 2) I really like the clip.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 13, 2006)

What type cell are you using for the test?


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> What type cell are you using for the test?


 2700mAh Sanyo


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## ViReN (Jun 13, 2006)

cant be over 3 hours


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## PhotonLight (Jun 13, 2006)

*It appears the email function on the board may not be working properly as I have not received any emails despite reports of a couple being sent. For the time being, please email me directly at bryan at photonlight.com or send a PM to arrange for the pre-paid return label should you experience any trouble with your Proton.*


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

my take on the proton so far:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/121585


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 13, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> *It appears the email function on the board may not be working properly as I have not received any emails despite reports of a couple being sent. For the time being, please email me directly at bryan at photonlight.com or send a PM to arrange for the pre-paid return label should you experience any trouble with your Proton.*



I sent you a PM on CPF this morning. Did you recieve it?


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

ViReN said:


> cant be over 3 hours


 not quite 3 but impressive non-the-less

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ad.php?t=121585


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## PhotonLight (Jun 13, 2006)

I've got the PMs, just no emails. At least one person has said they tried to email me through the board and I have tried emailing myself through the board as well but they don't seem to be going through.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 13, 2006)

I just did the PM. Don't worry about sending me the return label; my light is already on the way to you. Leo said to send it. You should have it tomorrow. Look for the return address to say Stockton, CA.


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## Mr. Blue (Jun 13, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



chanik said:


> The delays are not needed. Just let the red mode 'fall back' into SOS blink at the first optical detent and turn off the light; the dual color run is enabled. normally SOS is the last blinky mode but at the first off blip, if you let up the button the light will fall back into SOS.




come again?


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## jar3ds (Jun 13, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



Mr. Blue said:


> come again?


 are you having issues getting it into all LED mode?


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## geepondy (Jun 13, 2006)

I will post in this particular thread but it applies to a few when I say I wish to thank each and every reviewer for posting their comments regarding this light. I know I echo the sentiments of many. You have saved this guy from plunking down his cash on a light with lots of hype and potentional but now we learn some rough edges that need to be worked out. The comments remind me very much of somewhat similar comments made about the first release of the Arc AAA (remember how loose the tailcap was and would fall off right inside your pocket?). I am hoping that like Arc, LRI will heed these comments and improve upon the product.


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## ViReN (Jun 14, 2006)

Dbl Post !


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## ViReN (Jun 14, 2006)

geepondy said:


> I will post in this particular thread but it applies to a few when I say I wish to thank each and every reviewer for posting their comments regarding this light. I know I echo the sentiments of many. You have saved this guy from plunking down his cash on a light with lots of hype and potentional but now we learn some rough edges that need to be worked out. The comments remind me very much of somewhat similar comments made about the first release of the Arc AAA (remember how loose the tailcap was and would fall off right inside your pocket?). I am hoping that like Arc, LRI will heed these comments and improve upon the product.



well said geepondy 
Although, except for the contact issue, I believe the light is very nice. There are ofcourse chances of improvement. And like Photon I... then came Photon II and then came Photon III ... and still improvement continues. not that Photon I was bad... they are all great light in itself.

Same should be the case with Proton too..


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## Mr. Blue (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*



jar3ds said:


> are you having issues getting it into all LED mode?




yep!


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## jar3ds (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE***Pics Added*

just hold the button until red is on high... it will blink...

release ... the click&hold again until you see your first blink... as soon as it blinks turn the light off and turn it back on..

try it a couple of times until you get your timing down


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 15, 2006)

Not knowing how many Protons were actually released, I'm surprised at the lack of chatter concerning the light. I know several of us have been pretty vocal, but for those who have received your, please share your thoughts.


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## d1337 (Jun 15, 2006)

I love the UI of the proton. It works well for my everyday tasks but it doesn't seem as bright as my MM Fenix l1p. The quality has been called into questions by others but mine seems be well made.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 15, 2006)

Other than the coolness factor is there any functional reason to have RED and WHITE on at the same time?


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## d1337 (Jun 15, 2006)

None that I have found. I don't really even notice that much differnce in the beam quality. It might help to take some of the overdrive factor off the other LED's.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 15, 2006)

I'm hoping Bryan is still reading this thread, because I have a question. Per the instructions e-mailed to me from LRI, I shipped my broken Proton back. Thanks for the picking up the shipping fee LRI/Bryan. My question is (to Bryan), do you think LRI will attempt to fix these lights which are coming back or will new ones just be shipped? Again Brian, thanks for all your assistance and communications throughtout the entire Proton project. We really appreciate it.


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## MikeF (Jun 15, 2006)

I got two, and the timing couldn't have been better and now I will be giving them as Father's Day presents.

I took each one with me to work, and made sure they were working OK before wrapping them to give to my Dad and Father-in-Law on Sunday.

It was a difficult thing to give them up because for convenience it is a great size and the Proton has many usable features to have in an EDC.

I agree with the Five Star ratings, and the biggest concern I had earlier with the threading of the tailcap was reduced after I got to handle them. I can very easily thread the cap back on while in the dark with no trouble after having tried it a couple of times. Just try it before you have to do it in the dark, and "under fire" and it will go together just fine. Would I have liked greater length of threading and coarser threads? YES! But design decisions were made based on facts that I wasn't part of, and with the way I will be using it, I don't anticipate having to swap batteries more than once a week.

Oh yeah, sight unseen, I ordered two more June 10th to replace the two that I gave away. When my wife and kids saw the first two, they were very impressed, and I might have to replace my replacements when they arrive!


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## The_LED_Museum (Jun 15, 2006)

I use mine every day, and I absolutely *LOVE* it. :thumbsup:

The adjustable brightness is one of its best points; the fact that it uses readily available and fairly inexpensive AA cells is another one of its best points.


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## jar3ds (Jun 15, 2006)

i personally love the light... it fills such a nice gap/purpose for me.... only slightly larger than my Arc AAA P... but can be dimmer than the ARC and can surely be brighter than the ARC... the HDS is sometimes too fat to carry comfortably in dress pants and such... i forget I'm carrying any flashlight with the proton...

I'm weirded out by how my + contact has been so flawless... if its truely a soldering joint... i'm sort of 'waiting' for mine to fall out... but it just won't break... so could it be that if your + contact doesn't fall out within a few uses it WON'T? Who knows and only time will tell... hopefully Bryan can chime in with more info on acually want is the problem and if all models are affected?

check post #2 of https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/121585 for my alkaline runtime test... i'm very impressed


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 15, 2006)

The light is definately starting to grow on me. Since receiving it, I've only carried it and my Arc-P AAA lights. I find myself reaching for the Proton everytime. My biggest complaint/suggestion would be as it relates to startup mode. I'm not a big RED LED user, so that means I'm forced to startup in full-blast mode, then ramp down accordingly, based on what my lighting needs are. I'd love to see any option, maybe a double-click from off, that allows you to toggle startup between the RED and WHITE LEDS. I'm not sure the best way to do it, but my preference with the interface would have been to press/hold and ramp up the WHITE LEDS.


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## jar3ds (Jun 16, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> The light is definately starting to grow on me. Since receiving it, I've only carried it and my Arc-P AAA lights. I find myself reaching for the Proton everytime. My biggest complaint/suggestion would be as it relates to startup mode. I'm not a big RED LED user, so that means I'm forced to startup in full-blast mode, then ramp down accordingly, based on what my lighting needs are. I'd love to see any option, maybe a double-click from off, that allows you to toggle startup between the RED and WHITE LEDS. I'm not sure the best way to do it, but my preference with the interface would have been to press/hold and ramp up the WHITE LEDS.


 yeah I agree tin... sometimes it would be really nice to have it start in white low... i've been trying to think what the simplest way to do it would be... ... still thinking...  

I was just out with the wife eatting ice cream walking in the dark... and I found it good that white came on first in bright... then I could ramp it down if needed... but indoors it seems sometimes nicer to have white come on in low...

anybody else have a slight donut in their red beam on high?


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## nemul (Jun 16, 2006)

i want swap the red for another nichia CS or nichia 365... lol


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## The_LED_Museum (Jun 16, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> anybody else have a slight donut in their red beam on high?


There's no doughnut in my red LED beam; it's brighter in the center than it is at the perimeter.


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## nemul (Jun 16, 2006)

about the red... i think mine has a light spot in the middle, but not very bad...


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## jar3ds (Jun 16, 2006)

mine has a slight dull spot in the center of the red beam... its not in the center but a little away from the center... its anoying but not horrible..

i just LOVE the knurling on this thing... i just can't get over it... it acually WORKS... yet it doesn't damage my pocket... my favorite style of knurling on any light... if i ever make a custom light this is is what its going to have


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## ViReN (Jun 16, 2006)

I think, Nemul has a great suggestion. TIN, you could simply replace Red with White. since TIN wont be using red any way. But not sure if Vf would be enough to start the LED. after replacement


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## jar3ds (Jun 16, 2006)

it would be tight to put a UV in the center ... i'm a geek


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## ViReN (Jun 16, 2006)

Just an update, After Observing the Positive Contact Issue, I have decided to derate Proton by 2 Points .. so now it stands for *8/10*


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## Frenchyled (Jun 16, 2006)

I received mine, yesterday...thank you Bryan 

My first impressions are not very positive and I am sorry for that...But I want to be honest on that !!

My conclusion is.. this light don't worth the wait or the price that I put on it  
Electronics functionalities are great, sure, but like other LRI Photon..etc..
But IMHO, some details gives me the impression that this is a low cost build flashlight, and not very acceptable for the price and the developpement time !!

Cons :  
- Low cost keychain ring, acceptable for a photon, not for a Proton,
- Threading tailcap too short...
- Bad quality of the + contact (bad concept ?)
- _Run time (test made by others)_ waiting some new graphs ?
- Yellow colloration of the LEDs (external circumference of the beam)
- Price

Pros :
- Use AA batteries
- functionalities
- 2 colors led
- belt clip system with replaceable insert
- Weight

Thank you for reading, and I am hoping a proton revision 2 with corrected defaults.


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## jar3ds (Jun 16, 2006)

Frenchyled said:


> I received mine, yesterday...thank you Bryan
> 
> My first impressions are not very positive and I am sorry for that...But I want to be honest on that !!
> 
> ...


 well... the runtime is pretty dang good to me... check my runtime tests on post #2 of:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/121585


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## Frenchyled (Jun 16, 2006)

Hmmm..why so much difference between your and other graphs ??
2 hours is correct I agree...


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## jar3ds (Jun 16, 2006)

Frenchyled said:


> Hmmm..why so much difference between your and other graphs ??
> 2 hours is correct I agree...



well... according to TIN's test on his own review thread he's getting just shy of 2 hours with 2500mah sanyo's...

so since mine are 2700... they'll be a little more... 

so what do you mean "so much difference" ???

Viren's tests seem to be with a pre-release model of the proton


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 16, 2006)

Actually, I ordered some Sanyo 2700 cells last night, so I'll test again when they arrive.


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## Frenchyled (Jun 16, 2006)

From flashlight review :

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1420828&postcount=137
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1420891&postcount=143

and yours

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1456243&postcount=2

For me these graphs are really different !!! Maybe it's only me


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## jar3ds (Jun 16, 2006)

no its not only you... if you read my thread... i was suprised I got these results... if you look @ TIN's his is quite similar to mine...

again.... Viren/Quickbeam's Proton is thought to be a pre-production model...

TIN and I got ours when the new batch from LRI came in

ps.

quickbeam doesn't like it when people post his graphs so I'd delete them if I was you...


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## arab (Jun 16, 2006)

I received my Proton yesterday and am very happy so far. 
?
?? Some initial thoughts, impressions:
? o Tailcap is difficult to replace BUT practice makes perfect
?o Had a look at my + connection. Looks fine. But I wonder if the current design is such that it is a weak point and will therefore fail at some point in the future - or is it that if it works ok for X battery removals, it will last for ever ?
? o EASY way to remove clip! Unscrew the TOP piece of the tailcap (not the entire tailcap!). This exposes the top surface of the clip and allows for very easy removal. Dunno why this is not suggested in the documentation.
? o Love the functionality
?? I'm happy!? ? NB! Just noticed that after I removed the clip (using easy method described above) the tailpiece loosened itself twice in the space of a few hours. Of course, this could easily result in the loss of the light... When the clip is in place, I think the asymmetrical pressure the clip exerts on the tailpiece keeps it in place. My clip is now back in place and that's where it will stay. Design bug ?


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## Hans (Jun 16, 2006)

ViReN said:


> Although, except for the contact issue, I believe the light is very nice. There are of course chances of improvement.



Interesting. So there's the contact issue. If the contact fails you've got a dead light. Then there's the tailcap issue. If the threads wear out you've got a dead light. But the light is still very nice.

I must admit, my idea of a nice lights appears to differ from yours quite substantially.

Hans


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## powernoodle (Jun 16, 2006)

Hans said:


> I must admit, my idea of a nice lights appears to differ from yours quite substantially.



I'll stick my nose in here. The "if it fails" thing can be said about any light. 

But given the history of LRI/Photon, and because the couple of tab failures naturally receive a lot more attention than all the rest of us combined (whose lights function 100%), I have confidence in these lights. LRI/Photon has confidence too, evidenced by the fact they they will fix or replace a Proton next year or 19 years from now if necessary.

I say the glass if half full, dang it!

cheers


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## jar3ds (Jun 16, 2006)

i can't help but think that if your light doesn't break within its first few battery changes... the chances are highly reduced that it will break... 

i have tryed to break mine by putting a battery in it hard and such and nothing goes wrong... nothing but flawless function... while its slightly hard to get the tailcap to start to screw on the body... i have a lot threads holding onto the body... the contact spring issue may have something to do with some people not being able to get their battery all the way into the body making it harder to get the tailcap on


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## PhotonLight (Jun 16, 2006)

arab said:


> I received my Proton yesterday and am very happy so far.
> ?o Had a look at my + connection. Looks fine. But I wonder if the current design is such that it is a weak point and will therefore fail at some point in the future - or is it that if it works ok for X battery removals, it will last for ever ?


 
So far, only a handful of lights (5 reports so far) have exhibited this problem, so although it's happening more often than I would like to see, the majority of Protons seem to be working just fine. From what I can tell, it seems to happen right away if it's going to happen at all, although being this new it's hard to say for sure what we will see in the long-term. LRI is looking at this issue though to consider how to eliminate the problem. 



arab said:


> ? o EASY way to remove clip! Unscrew the TOP piece of the tailcap (not the entire tailcap!). This exposes the top surface of the clip and allows for very easy removal. Dunno why this is not suggested in the documentation.


 
The intention is for the clip to be removable without requiring any disassembly of the light. Just pull out on the top portion of the clip where it attaches to the body and it should snap loose. It's intended to be tight (Nobody wants their flashlight falling off and getting lost because the clip came loose), but it's fairly easy to remove as long as you're pulling on the right part of the clip. Note that it might be a bit stiffer the first couple times until the spring that holds it on loosens up a bit.




arab said:


> ?? I'm happy!? ? NB! Just noticed that after I removed the clip (using easy method described above) the tailpiece loosened itself twice in the space of a few hours. Of course, this could easily result in the loss of the light... When the clip is in place, I think the asymmetrical pressure the clip exerts on the tailpiece keeps it in place. My clip is now back in place and that's where it will stay. Design bug ?


 
If your clip is putting a slight pressure on the body of the light, that could possibly keep it from loosening by itself more than it might otherwise, but if you've got the tailcap screwed on tight it really shouldn't be coming loose. I suspect the difference may be due more to the fact that with the clip attached, it gives you better leverage/grip when you are tightening the tailcap. Without the clip attached, the tailcap is small and smooth without a lot to grip when screwing it on so it may not be getting tightened down all the way.


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## NewBie (Jun 16, 2006)

This sucker ain't fully regulated.

Fully regulated would be a flat line, such as you find with most of dat2zip's converters.

Personally, I'd call this puesdo regulation.





ViReN said:


> OK .. Here it is  the 50 % Graph. It would last 3 hours 50 50% and FULLY Regulated till 2:45.
> Also, I would like to Quote the Relative Brightness.... the numbers with Same Setup. _(these are Overall Brightness Numbers, Light is NOT directly falling on the Sensor, Similar to Quickbeam's Milk Box)_
> 1) for 1 Nichia CS DD'ed at atound 60 mA = 100 Lux x 10 (roughly 10 % Brighter than Arc AAA Premium)
> 2) for Fenix L2P with 1 AA Cell, Brightness is around 370 Lux x 10 and Fenix L2P with 2 Cells is around 550 Lux x 10
> ...


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## jar3ds (Jun 17, 2006)

welcome back newbie... we've missed you!

again, as i've said time and time again... it APPEARS quickbeam/viren got a pre-production model... if you look at tin and my graphs they are quite similar and show decent regulation... yes, not hds style regulation but i doubt anyone was really expecting that, especially when we consider the 1xAA source... also, as tin has pointed out... there will be a slight larger variation in runtime/regulation due to the fact that 6 LED's are being driven rather than a single luxeon...


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## ViReN (Jun 17, 2006)

NewBie said:


> This sucker ain't fully regulated.
> 
> Fully regulated would be a flat line, such as you find with most of dat2zip's converters.
> 
> Personally, I'd call this puesdo regulation.



I agree with you. Its Semi Regulation when it comes to Alkalines.


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## chimo (Jun 17, 2006)

This looks like a boost circuit. The "nice flat regulation" you are seeing is mainly due to the flat discharge of the NiMH and Lithium chemistry batteries. 

To really see if it is fully regulated, you should look at the alkaline curve. 

Now this is not necessarily a bad thing. There are pros and cons for both boost and fully regulated lights.

Jar3ds, recall that the solar cell will not have the same response as a light meter so your posted curve may not be the same than if you used a light meter.

Paul


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## 4sevens (Jun 17, 2006)

Hans said:


> Interesting. So there's the contact issue. If the contact fails you've got a dead light. Then there's the tailcap issue. If the threads wear out you've got a dead light. But the light is still very nice.
> 
> I must admit, my idea of a nice lights appears to differ from yours quite substantially.
> 
> Hans



Mine showed up friday. I was so excited about it until I put an AA cell in.
IT DIDNT TURN ON!!!! Taking the cell out I discovered the imfamous 
broken contact!!
  
I can't believe it. A light that cost this much should work out of the box!  

I don't want to send it back and wait so I'm going to try to fix it.


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## powernoodle (Jun 17, 2006)

Ok, my glass is a little less than half full now. 

Some extensive beta testing on about a bunch of Protons by CPFers (say, those with 1600+ posts ) would have revealed this problem.

cheers


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## loalight (Jun 17, 2006)

Not to dispute any claims made by other owners, just adding an ongoing observation: the tailcap is much easier to thread now. It's possible there was some machining schmutz in the threads which was causing some stiction. A bit sloppy on the production side, but I'm OK with the outcome. 

no light -by any manufacturer or modder, at any price- has a 0% failure rate. Even our dear Sun will have a catastrophic malfunction in a few _illion years!


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## ViReN (Jun 17, 2006)

personaly, I didnt have any trouble in Tailcap, It's similar to MiniMag Tailcap, when it comes to replacing batteries. However, it's Much different as compared with Fenix L2P


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## diggdug13 (Jun 17, 2006)

this is becoming a normal occurance of production flashlights from manufacturers here on CPF first the Fenix has problems that should have been found/fixed before being released to the public and now the Proton has issues. I feel like alot of people that we are nothing but PAYING BETA TESTERS... :thumbsdow


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## Frenchyled (Jun 17, 2006)

Hmmmm...not false 

I have a question about the PROTON, is it possible to put the light in the same state as it was when delivered ? I mean in demo mode, like it's possible to do with a photon ?


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 17, 2006)

Frenchyled said:


> Hmmmm...not false
> 
> I have a question about the PROTON, is it possible to put the light in the same state as it was when delivered ? I mean in demo mode, like it's possible to do with a photon ?



Press and hold the switch while inserting the battery and twisting on the tailcap.


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## Frenchyled (Jun 17, 2006)

Thank you TIN for the reply, but maybe I am too stupid, I've tried that before asking and retry now after you replied...but I can't get it


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## MikeF (Jun 17, 2006)

I've tried it as well, and can't get it to reset to Point Of Purchase (POP) mode. Do you need to wait for more than a couple of seconds after removing the battery? I've tried 30 seconds, and still no reset.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 17, 2006)

NiMH batteries will give virtually any light a ‘flat line’ run time. A more torturous test would be the relatively weak alkaline battery run time in the Proton light.








Using Duracell alkaline batteries, I graphed both light with a constantly dropping curve. They ran for 43 minutes until the beams hit the 50% point.

The circuit driving the Proton is a voltage boost circuit, not regulated. I know the curve of a voltage boost.

My graph is from a production light. These are graphs from my two out of three Proton lights using an alkaline battery. My third light is broke and in the shop. Using Duracell alkaline batteries, I graphed both lights. Each of my lights has a constantly dropping curve. They ran for 43 minutes until the beams hit the 50% point. The light drops from the start and follows a consistent slope until it runs out of juice. Yes, the Proton light has voltage boost but it does not have any type of regulation. Quickbeam’s graph is correct; his light is not broke. Or two of my lights are broke.







The beam from my Proton lights look like this. I believe many members would agree. I wouldn’t have bought my lights if I knew the beam would be blue with a distinct yellow rim.


ViRen has the only stellar model Proton. We assumed ViRen’s light was a normal sample so many of us bought the production lights. His one light was not representative of real world Photon lights.


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## ViReN (Jun 17, 2006)

> ViRen has the only stellar model Proton. We assumed ViRen’s light was a normal sample so many of us bought the production lights. His one light was not representative of real world Photon lights.
> Reply With Quote



I dont think so. for me too, the runtime is similar for Alkaline. if you see the graph below, the 50% falls beetween 41 and 46 minutes.


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## ViReN (Jun 17, 2006)

TrueBlue: I Suggest you take runtime test on 50% with a Alkaline too, the High Current demanded by 100% is simply impossible for a Alkaline to survive.

Also, Take some Real Life Photos and then observe the Color Rendering. White wall put me in confusion too.


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## NewBie (Jun 17, 2006)

Taking a look at these various graphs (alk/lith/nimh), the Proton looks * completely unregulated *, with the output curve following the discharge voltage curve of the batteries.

I dunno **IMHO**, LRI/Photon had a good chance to make their first real flashlight (which could have been decent), and it just seems like nearly everything has been compromized for profit margin, adding a few bells and whistles to make it look interesting enough for an impulse buy.

sigh.


Of course, it might be an okay light for the average joe blow, it just doesn't seem to be the cup of tea that was made for me...

Hopefully, this isn't their last real flashlight and in the future they can learn from their past mistakes.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 17, 2006)

ViReN said:


> *Snip...*
> 
> 
> *Beam Shots:*LRI Proton on Left, Peak's McKinley Ultra Power Snow (7 LED) on Right
> ...



ViRen...Prominent wall shots are proudly displayed on your very first post for everyone to view and compare. Now you say to ignore them? You left your wall shot pictures in the first post. I returned the favor to the CPF members by showing a wall shot with the production version Proton light I bought and own.


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## ViReN (Jun 17, 2006)

There is less Yellow in my beamshot isnt it? perhaps less prominant as your Proton (is it?) may be a different Bin of Nichia CS... from a Pre Production might have used different LED?

Electronics look same to me, as compared with Your Alkaline Graphs.

TrueBlue, If you have a McKinley 7 LED Snow Ultra, could you compare with it and take a picture in One Shot. (Camera might make white balance off?)

For Nichia CS, I have seen 3 Tints, one is very blue(A0), one is very good balance(B12), other is Yellow (C0, like your shot), the LED in my Proton appear to be the ones with very good balance. from Grumpy's Group Buy LED's (A0, B12) I can compare them with the B12 in my proton. your look like C0.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 17, 2006)

diggdug13 said:


> this is becoming a normal occurance of production flashlights from manufacturers here on CPF first the Fenix has problems that should have been found/fixed before being released to the public and now the Proton has issues. I feel like alot of people that we are nothing but PAYING BETA TESTERS... :thumbsdow


 
It's important to remember that these flashlight manufacturers are just companies made of real people like you and me. There is a tendency to expect 100% perfection and to be disappointed by anything less. While everyone involved with the Proton project at LRI has been doing their best to make sure it is the best it can be and that the first production run lives up to the high expectations all of you have had, anyone who has ever been involved with manufacturing can tell you that no manufacturing is 100% perfect. Just as with any new product, there are bound to be a few bumps to be ironed out in the beginning. Where I see the difference is that some companies are more willing to continually modify & improve a product design and/or a production process throughout the course of a product's life whereas some are happy to keep producing a product without making these kinds of changes. LRI has a long history of making continual improvements (both major and minor) to improve reliability, function, or use of their lights, and I'm sure the Proton will be no different. In the meantime, relying on LRI's warranty service to repair a faulty light is an inconvenience to those of you who are having issues with their Proton, we are doing everything we can to minimize the inconvenience with a quick turn-around and even pre-paying your postage for the return. 

As for beta testing, the lights were thoroughly tested and most of the various issues which have come up (such as the battery contact issue) were noticed in testing. As I mentioned in an earlier post, each and every Proton was in fact checked thoroughly for these issues by LRI before shipping to pick out any faulty lights before shipping. Unfortunately, in the case of the battery contact issue, the testing method apparently wasn't sufficient to catch all of the problem lights. This is being looked at, and some changes to the battery contact are of course being considered as well.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 17, 2006)

Frenchyled said:


> Thank you TIN for the reply, but maybe I am too stupid, I've tried that before asking and retry now after you replied...but I can't get it



Take a look at Post #485 in this thread.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 17, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> Take a look at Post #485 in this thread.



By the way, I have not personally tried this, so I'm just going by what I've read.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 17, 2006)

MikeF said:


> I've tried it as well, and can't get it to reset to Point Of Purchase (POP) mode. Do you need to wait for more than a couple of seconds after removing the battery? I've tried 30 seconds, and still no reset.


 
I believe that the POP mode is actually not resettable in the case of the Proton. I was told it has something to do with the way the voltage boost circuit powers the electronics so that in order for the POP mode to be resettable, the voltage boost circuit would have to be powered at all times. The instructions posted on the website initially indicated that that the POP mode was resettable just like the Freedom Micro, however was corrected as soon as the error was pointed out.


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## d1337 (Jun 17, 2006)

Pushing the button on and off rapidly 5 or 6 times put my Proton into Point of Purchase mode.


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## MikeF (Jun 17, 2006)

I think that may be Momentary Mode? I think it stays on as long as the button is pressed. With POP, it stays on only 5-6 seconds when you press and release for Max White.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 17, 2006)

d1337 said:


> Pushing the button on and off rapidly 5 or 6 times put my Proton into Point of Purchase mode.



That's momentary mode.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 17, 2006)

I'm surprised no one has asked about 14500 capabilties. I know the instructions don't have it listed as a recommended cell, but I know that usually doesn't stop some our of renegade CPF'ers. So, has anyone tried? Would it mean instant smoke?


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## jar3ds (Jun 17, 2006)

go right ahead and try it and tell us how it goes TIN! 

lol... 

i have been thinking about this... and i would love to find out it works just fine... but I'm scared the LED's would go POOF! 

maybe Bryan can ask and chime in


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 17, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> go right ahead and try it and tell us how it goes TIN!
> 
> lol...
> 
> ...



I'm sure Bryan will say that it's not a supported configuration and will void the warrenty. That's certainly understandable. I don't have the nerve to try it though. Even if my 2nd one was here and not in for repairs, I don't think I'd try it.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 17, 2006)

As I don't have an intimate knowledge of exactly how the electronics function, I really don't know what might happen. I can tell you though that the Proton was designed for AA's in the 1.2-1.5V range and was not intended to be used with the 14500 li-ion with it's higher voltage. Whether or not the light will actually work with the higher voltage without causing any damage is another question. I'll see if I can get some more details and get back to you.


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## nemul (Jun 17, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> LRI has a long history of making continual improvements (both major and minor) to improve reliability, function, or use of their lights, and I'm sure the Proton will be no different.



will there be a upgrade program for Proton v2 for the Proton v1 owners ?


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## chanik (Jun 18, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> I'm sure Bryan will say that it's not a supported configuration and will void the warrenty. That's certainly understandable. I don't have the nerve to try it though. Even if my 2nd one was here and not in for repairs, I don't think I'd try it.


 
It's not a supported configuration and will void the warrenty. 
That said the electronics will survive the experiece. The LEDs, maybe not so well as the unit will put out 1.1Amps into 6 poor little 5mm die. 190mA per LED. That makes bad things happen.


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## jar3ds (Jun 18, 2006)

chanik said:


> It's not a supported configuration and will void the warrenty.
> That said the electronics will survive the experiece. The LEDs, maybe not so well as the unit will put out 1.1Amps into 6 poor little 5mm die. 190mA per LED. That makes bad things happen.


 lol.... thanks for the input chanik! Yeah... ~200ma's to a LED isn't too nice on them...

chanik... can you confirm exactly what is going on with the + contact? Is it simply held in with a solder joint? etc.... Any info on this matter would be very helpful!


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 18, 2006)

I have a question regarding the clip. With the tailcap fully tightened, I want the clip to be 180-degrees across the push button. Mine is not quite where I want it. I was hoping I could spin/reposition it without removing it. I don't want to take the clip off in fear that once remounted it would be as secure as it is now. So, has anyone been able to rotate thieir clip while still mounted.


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## Haesslich (Jun 18, 2006)

Say... any word on how the switches are with the Protons? I like the idea of the variable-dimming, but I'm a little concerned with how well the switches will hold up after months of use; it's an interesting idea, and I suspect this would make a nice match for another light of mine...


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## jar3ds (Jun 19, 2006)

Haesslich said:


> Say... any word on how the switches are with the Protons? I like the idea of the variable-dimming, but I'm a little concerned with how well the switches will hold up after months of use; it's an interesting idea, and I suspect this would make a nice match for another light of mine...


 i wondered the same thing... But since I've had it it doesn't seem like the switch is the weak point... but usally time only can tell with switches... like any push button switch though... they don't seem to hold up FOREVER... but who knows 

it feels solid


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## chanik (Jun 19, 2006)

These will hold up ~forever. Interrupting current is what ultimately destroys a switch, due to the inevitable arcing. Curse you, parasitic inductance. Anyway, our switch is merely a signaling switch to the micro. As for the front tabs, they were simply inserted incorrectly which left them unsupported and liable to break off. We detected the flaw but didn't catch them all. This is why the failures are binary; either the tab breaks right away or is solid.


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## jar3ds (Jun 19, 2006)

chanik said:


> These will hold up ~forever. Interrupting current is what ultimately destroys a switch, due to the inevitable arcing. Curse you, parasitic inductance. Anyway, our switch is merely a signaling switch to the micro. As for the front tabs, they were simply inserted incorrectly which left them unsupported and liable to break off. We detected the flaw but didn't catch them all. This is why the failures are binary; either the tab breaks right away or is solid.


 *excellent news!* 

thanks chanik


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## yaesumofo (Jun 19, 2006)

I don't know I can't support a light made in the current chineede evvirnmnt. These people are they may be real people Bryan. But they are not like you and I. These people are working LONG hours to make these very expensive flashlights for us and they are earning a wage of at most $1.00 that is ONE dollar a day. This is not living wage.
The Proton is the last Chinese made flashlight I will buy. I cannot in good conscious continue to support the efforts of people to make a huge profit from the labors of human beings who earn so little and have to work harder than most people fortunate enough to frequent this board. ever will.
If this light were made in the USA and cost $75.00 I would buy another.
At over $60.00 I see way too much profit in this light and that profit is not going to the people who are doing the real work. I know that the Chinese have a system. I also know that QC is as good as it gets if you are willing to spend the money. Why not use this opportunity to become a force for change in China instead of just another profit taker.
I look forward to receiving a new proton in exchange for the broken one I received. Bryan this light was broke before i turned it on. when I opened the light to remove the battery the metal positive contact fell out.
I suggest that when you start retail package these that one final check be performed . remove and replace the battery if the contact doesnt fall out if passes.
What is the time frame for replacement of a returned flashlight?
I am so happy that the proton is here I learned something. I grew as a result of what I learned. I have made an effort over the years to minimize products made in china. It is a difficult undertaking. I know for sure that I do not have to purchase another chinese made flash light ...not ever. The Proton holds the honor of being my last. 
I like photons. I have a substantial collection of them pretty much at leas one of every all that have been made. The photon was certainly one of if not the first Led flashlight I ever purchased I bought it at REI. I have many of them . a collection of them you might say. If these are also made in china I will most likely not be buying any more of them. Too bad because I like them.
Bryan It is my hope that you take my feelings on this matter to heart. I cant be alone in this. I tend to be outspoken. Please look into the living and working conditions of the factory workers who are working for your OEM manufacturing. Please if these conditions are such that you would not be willing to try to take the place of one of YOUR workers for a week then please stop making protons. Please look for other avenues of profit which are centered here at least in north America. I know it is possible many companies do it why cant LRI. High profits from china are like are like the siren's from the odyssey.
I am quite sure this is the last message that would expect to hear from a customer. It is our spemding dollars that keep you and companies like you in business. There seems to be a growing backlash against chinese made gods especially of the cheap variety. I have it on good authority that lights similar to the proton are available in china for 1/5 the street price here in the USA. there are two choices do something socially responsible and pay a living wage and lower profit . Pull out all together. 
Good luck.
I hope to receive my new light very soon.
Yaesumofo





PhotonLight said:


> It's important to remember that these flashlight manufacturers are just companies made of real people like you and me. There is a tendency to expect 100% perfection and to be disappointed by anything less. While everyone involved with the Proton project at LRI has been doing their best to make sure it is the best it can be and that the first production run lives up to the high expectations all of you have had, anyone who has ever been involved with manufacturing can tell you that no manufacturing is 100% perfect. Just as with any new product, there are bound to be a few bumps to be ironed out in the beginning. Where I see the difference is that some companies are more willing to continually modify & improve a product design and/or a production process throughout the course of a product's life whereas some are happy to keep producing a product without making these kinds of changes. LRI has a long history of making continual improvements (both major and minor) to improve reliability, function, or use of their lights, and I'm sure the Proton will be no different. In the meantime, relying on Levi's warranty service to repair a faulty light is an inconvenience to those of you who are having issues with their Proton, we are doing everything we can to minimize the inconvenience with a quick turn-around and even prepaying your postage for the return.
> 
> As for beta testing, the lights were thoroughly tested and most of the various issues which have come up (such as the battery contact issue) were noticed in testing. As I mentioned in an earlier post, each and every Proton was in fact checked thoroughly for these issues by LRI before shipping to pick out any faulty lights before shipping. Unfortunately, in the case of the battery contact issue, the testing method apparently wasn't sufficient to catch all of the problem lights. This is being looked at, and some changes to the battery contact are of course being considered as well.


----------



## 270winchester (Jun 19, 2006)

yaesu:

you are a good man with conscience, i.e. a dying breed in America. I refused to buy the proton since it was announced that it would be produced in China. 

You won't caught me dead with a Proton or a Fenix, that's for sure....

however, any minute now, someone will try to label you a racist, a bigot, or whatever. Just brace yourself for it, it's the price of advocating fair wages for workers in other countries...ironic indeed.


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## Christoph (Jun 19, 2006)

Big disapointment mine worked for about 5 min It also had some scratches around the tail cap. Not a $60+ light in my eyes.:thumbsdow :scowl: 
Chris


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## Rob187 (Jun 19, 2006)

yaesumofo

I fail to see how refusing to buy a light from a country on the basis that the workers who actually make the light in that country are paid lower wages than an equivalent worker in the USA somehow benefits the lower paid worker for whom you are so concerned. Having some income, however low is better than no income at all.

Your argument is full of holes and xenophobic ideology. I suspect you are mostly annoyed about receiving a faulty light and have used this as a excuse to air your political views. However, this thread is supposed to be about reviewing the Proton, not getting into an political argument but your views are so unbalanced that I cannot allow them to pass without some comment.

However, you are entitled to your view and you can chose not to buy a light for whatever reason you like, whether it make sense or not.

Personally, I can't wait to get my Proton and see what it is like for myself.

Rob187


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 19, 2006)

According to the Delivery Confirmation data, my busted Proton arrived at LRI on Saturday the 17th. I'll let you folks know when the fixed unit/replacement unit arrives back to me. I was hoping that Bryan would answer my question from earlier, as to whether LRI is fixing these unit's with the defective positive contact or just replacing the light.


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## arab (Jun 19, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> I have a question regarding the clip. With the tailcap fully tightened, I want the clip to be 180-degrees across the push button. Mine is not quite where I want it. I was hoping I could spin/reposition it without removing it. I don't want to take the clip off in fear that once remounted it would be as secure as it is now. So, has anyone been able to rotate thieir clip while still mounted.



I would say no or perhaps "not easily". If you remove the end-piece of the tailcap, this will expose the top surface of the clip and the metal receiver it clips on to. This receiver appears to be glued in place. If you don't like to hear "no" and enjoy challenges, you'd be looking to break the glue bond of the metal receiver, rotate this by the exact amount and reglue. 

Dunno about warranty if you do this ...


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## jar3ds (Jun 19, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> According to the Delivery Confirmation data, my busted Proton arrived at LRI on Saturday the 17th. I'll let you folks know when the fixed unit/replacement unit arrives back to me. I was hoping that Bryan would answer my question from earlier, as to whether LRI is fixing these unit's with the defective positive contact or just replacing the light.


 I would assume from:



chanik said:


> These will hold up ~forever. Interrupting current is what ultimately destroys a switch, due to the inevitable arcing. Curse you, parasitic inductance. Anyway, our switch is merely a signaling switch to the micro. As for the front tabs, they were simply inserted incorrectly which left them unsupported and liable to break off. We detected the flaw but didn't catch them all. This is why the failures are binary; either the tab breaks right away or is solid.



that your going to get a light with the contact spring installed correctly... weither or not its your original light I do not know... I would assume it will be...

---

as a side note... i can't believe I hear people diss on a light, how it is made, where it is made... and then can't wait until they get it? just don't buy it and leave the thread... its simple... get an HDS... get a surefire... you don't need to inform us to your personal thoughts and ethics behind your flashlight purchasing...


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 19, 2006)

arab said:


> I would say no or perhaps "not easily". If you remove the end-piece of the tailcap, this will expose the top surface of the clip and the metal receiver it clips on to. This receiver appears to be glued in place. If you don't like to hear "no" and enjoy challenges, you'd be looking to break the glue bond of the metal receiver, rotate this by the exact amount and reglue.
> 
> Dunno about warranty if you do this ...



OK, thanks. What you said brings up another question. How did you remove the end-piece of the tailcap? I tried bare-handed unscrewing it, but without success.


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 19, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> I would assume from:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks. That's what I was thinking too. I"m assuming the body comes apart somewhere near the bezel. If it doesn't, it would be next to impossible to get in there from the end size. I tried unscrewing the tubes at various points, without success. I'm assuming it's glued and with the make-up of the rubber switch, I'm not willing to apply heat in an attempt to loosen it.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 19, 2006)

Which way should the tabs be mounted inside the light? I had three lights. The positive tab fell out in the first light. The positive tab shaped like a V is in the second one. A flat positive tab is in the third one.


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## jdriller (Jun 19, 2006)

Anyone else have problems with the button? I can't activate the light with the pad of my thumb, I have to use the point or index finger. I practically have to crush the button to ramp the light up and down.


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## loalight (Jun 19, 2006)

jdriller said:


> Anyone else have problems with the button? I can't activate the light with the pad of my thumb, I have to use the point or index finger. I practically have to crush the button to ramp the light up and down.



classic signs of a button alignment problem. Mine is not like this.

send it back!

(still finding mine to be pretty swell..)


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## jar3ds (Jun 19, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Which way should the tabs be mounted inside the light? I had three lights. The positive tab fell out in the first light. The positive tab shaped like a V is in the second one. A flat positive tab is in the third one.


 mine has been FLAWLESS... and it is a V shape... it sort'a looks like the -contact... 

BTW all.... my thread/tail cap issue was really anoying at first... but now its really easy to get the tailcap on... Don't know if they just had to break in (+contact/threads/-contact) or what... but its nice and easy now...


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## PhotonLight (Jun 19, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> OK, thanks. What you said brings up another question. How did you remove the end-piece of the tailcap? I tried bare-handed unscrewing it, but without success.


 
The end piece of the tailcap should be glued and is not intended to be removed, although enough pressure and it will of course come loose. The rest of the parts which are not intended to be unscrewed are glued as well.


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## arab (Jun 19, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> OK, thanks. What you said brings up another question. How did you remove the end-piece of the tailcap? I tried bare-handed unscrewing it, but without success.


?Dunno? Mine unscrews normally although it is a bit tight. Mind you, the fact that I'm the only one to mention this "feature" might suggest it's not supposed to unscrew ...


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## PhotonLight (Jun 19, 2006)

jdriller said:


> Anyone else have problems with the button? I can't activate the light with the pad of my thumb, I have to use the point or index finger. I practically have to crush the button to ramp the light up and down.


 
Not that I know of. I've been trying to keep track of the various issues that have come up and you're the only one so far to report a problem with the button.  Go ahead and send an email to custservice at photonlight.com and we'll get you a pre-paid return label to send your light in and get it fixed. I apologize for any inconvenience.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 19, 2006)

TrueBlue said:


> Which way should the tabs be mounted inside the light? I had three lights. The positive tab fell out in the first light. The positive tab shaped like a V is in the second one. A flat positive tab is in the third one.


 
I don't believe the failures of the positive tab are connected to the position of the contact. Depending on how the contact is adjusted inside the light, you may be looking at either the flat side of the V or the point when you look down the barrel of the light. The contact should be adjusted so that the button on the positive end of the battery just makes contact with the battery contact, but that if the battery is inserted backwards, the contact should not protrude enough to make contact with the flat surface of the negative end of the battery. As long as this function is being served then you should be fine either way. If the light has survived removing the battery a few times, then my guess is that it should be just fine. Of course only time will tell, but so far all of the positive contact failures seem to have occured the first couple times the battery was removed.


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## arab (Jun 19, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> The end piece of the tailcap should be glued and is not intended to be removed, although enough pressure and it will of course come loose. The rest of the parts which are not intended to be unscrewed are glued as well.


?Maybe 
I should glue mine up then. As I said in an earlier post, with the clip removed, the end-piece unscrewed itself a little too easily.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 19, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> According to the Delivery Confirmation data, my busted Proton arrived at LRI on Saturday the 17th. I'll let you folks know when the fixed unit/replacement unit arrives back to me. I was hoping that Bryan would answer my question from earlier, as to whether LRI is fixing these unit's with the defective positive contact or just replacing the light.


 
For the moment, since there won't be any extra Protons available until the next shipment arrives (I'm still waiting on word of when that may be), LRI will simply be repairing the problems that are easily repairable. A small handful of lights were held back for replacement and these will be used to replace any lights with non-repairable issues (i.e. problems with tailcap threading, etc.)


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## Quickbeam (Jun 19, 2006)

Just FYI, my Proton review has been posted. About time, eh?

Doug P.


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## PhotonLight (Jun 19, 2006)

Regarding the apparent lack of regulation that some have observed when using alkaline cells in the Proton, here is David's response:



> It is regulated and the Alkaline does not have enough power to continue the high power light output. We could have set the regulation for alkaline and had a flat output almost to the end but it would have been nowhere near as bright a light. No one can get something from nothing. Either you are an endurance runner or you are not, and alkaline is a runner for another race. This is why we advise to use Lithium or NiMH.


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## TrueBlue (Jun 19, 2006)

My repaired light has arrived and fully functioning. I'll give credit to Photon Lights for quick service.


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## rider (Jun 19, 2006)

After looking over Doug's review of the Proton, it appears that we have yet another class of non-conforming lumens. The LRI lumens coming out of this supposed 50 lumen light are dimmer than Inova or even Fenix lumens. Doug- is your light broken? (muahaha)

Well, I'm off to pull out my 70 lumen X5 and spotlight a few deer...


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## adirondackdestroyer (Jun 19, 2006)

Nice review doug.  I was waiting to purchase this light based on your review, but I think I am going to have to wait until LRI does some revisions. Mostly in making the tailcap threading longer/better and fixing the positive contact. The performance of the light is enough for me, but I want a light that is going to hold up.


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## jar3ds (Jun 20, 2006)

i remember reading something about how you could use a lens... sure enough after reading through doug's review I unscrewed the head... and it all comes apart... it has the o-ring just waiitng... anyone have any ideas of what lens to use.... i'd assume some really thin glass/plastic would be the best... i have issues with putting it into a pocket with my change because once the LED's own lens is scratched your sorta screwed ...

i also didn't know about the whole 50% run mode...


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## Mr. Blue (Jun 20, 2006)

BROKEN....
reached into the pocket and the clip had completely sheared off and the very end of the tail cap was unscrewed...I don't even use the clip and haven't changed the battery yet!

dang.


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## jar3ds (Jun 20, 2006)

the clip sheared off? what do you mean? 

that sucks dude... hopefully Bryan can help ya out


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## PhotonLight (Jun 20, 2006)

The clip? I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean either. The clip itself is a pretty solid piece of metal so I'm having a hard time visualizing how it could simply "shear" off unless the tailcap somehow managed to disassemble itself in your pocket? Not that it matters, we'll get it taken care of for you regardless, but I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what happened. Go ahead and send an email to custservice at photonlight.com and we'll get you a return label asap.


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## Mr. Blue (Jun 20, 2006)

ok...I found the clip....the whole assembly disassembled, and it is very hard to reconfigure....i didn't really need the clip anyway, but I may shoot you an email...G


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 20, 2006)

Mr. Blue said:


> BROKEN....
> reached into the pocket and the clip had completely sheared off and the very end of the tail cap was unscrewed...I don't even use the clip and haven't changed the battery yet!
> 
> dang.



I'm not sure what you're saying. How did/could the clip "shear-off" if only in your pocket. As regards to the tail cap, were you sure it was tight after your battery replacement or prior to pocketing it?


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## Rob187 (Jun 21, 2006)

Received mine yesterday, so far so good. I share the concerns about how long the switch button will last and the threating on the tail cap is a fair bit below par. I am a bit disappointed with the tinting of the LEDs. I don't think mine are particularly bad but the colouring (blue centre/yellow fringe) is not as nice as I hoped.

The variability of the lighting levels is great and the red led gives a beautiful smooth beam. The highest brightness is excellent, despite the claimed vs real lumen output argument. It's still pretty bright for an AA light.

Lets just see how it is going in 12 months after frequent use. That will be the real test of quality.


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## arab (Jun 21, 2006)

Mr. Blue said:


> BROKEN....
> reached into the pocket and the clip had completely sheared off and the very end of the tail cap was unscrewed...I don't even use the clip and haven't changed the battery yet!
> 
> dang.


 
I'd say this is something similar to what I have written about above: The glue bond on the cap of the tailpiece gave away allowing it to unscrew. This then exposes the "naked" end allowing the clip to pop out very easily.

Some pictures may help to illustrate (apologies for appalling quality :scowl

Tail Piece unscrewed:






Clip Removed:


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## arab (Jun 21, 2006)

*What is supposed to happen when the Red LED comes on to indicate the battery is getting weak ???*​ 
I thought I read somewhere that when this happened, you could press and hold the button to dim the light. When the light was dimmed to a level that the batteries could manage, the Red LED went out. 

Not on my light!

On mine, when the Red LED comes on when the battery is weak, if I press and hold the button, the light goes out - immediately. If I then try to switch it back on, it doesn't come on immediately, there is a delay. I'm not sure if this is because the battery is weak or the circuit intelligence decides, but it's certainly inconvenient if it leaves you in the dark.

Interested in other's experiences.

_Oh, and by the way, I have the Proton for about a week now and I'm appreciating it more every day_


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## PhotonLight (Jun 21, 2006)

arab said:


> *What is supposed to happen when the Red LED comes on to indicate the battery is getting weak ???*​


 
I have noticed that the end-of-battery-life behavior of the Proton is slightly different depending on what type of battery (NiMH vs. Lithium) you are using. When the red LED first comes on, output can still be reduced as described. In the second stage, when the power has dropped even lower to the point where there is apparently not enough power left to power both the electronics & the LEDs, the electronics are shut off and the light can only be switched off by pressing and holding the button. You will then have to wait until the battery recovers somewhat to have enough power to turn the light back on again. I have noticed that with Lithium batteries, the power drops so quickly at the end that the Proton seems to jump straight to the second stage, spending only a minute or less in that first stage where the brightness can still be reduced manually to reduce power.


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## arab (Jun 21, 2006)

Hi Bryan, I'm using very ordinary Energiser Alkaline AAs. Maybe the 1st "Red LED" period needs to be tuned to be wider? Anyway, these are mere details - this light is great !


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## nemul (Jun 21, 2006)

arab said:


> Hi Bryan, I'm using very ordinary* Energiser Alkaline AAs*. Maybe the 1st "Red LED" period needs to be tuned to be wider? Anyway, these are mere details - this light is great !



didn't it come with a Energiser Lithium? you drain it already? lol


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## jar3ds (Jun 21, 2006)

i'd say the 'red' low battery feature serves no point but to alert you when using NiMH's... if your using alks or lithiums why do you need to have an indicator that your batteries are failing... you'll know already due to its brightnes...

NiMH's drop their brightness VERY fast so having the RED led is nice... but with alks... the discharge is so slow... and you'll know... besides.. .alks voltage will rise up again once the light is off for a while...


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## ViReN (Jun 21, 2006)

the Red Feature is Very Useful. It turns on when batteries are at 0.9 Volts (exactly) and for NiMH, in order to protect cells, it simply switches of the light if you press and hold, I believe, this is to protect the NiMH Battery. On a Generic Alkaline, It behaves slightly differently, If you dim the light by holding it down, the red indeed goes dim along with other LED's (not noticed going OFF) so dim that it's hardly noticable, but as the battery depletes further, the RED brightness increases.... this is such a cool thing. also if you have a almost dead Alkalin battery running continiously, if you start it up immidiately, it wont start, it waits for battery to recover perhaps up to 0.92 - 0.94 volts and then starts up... (see the Generic Alkaline graph in previous posts)... I like this functionality verymuch.


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## nemul (Jun 22, 2006)

nevermind.


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## arab (Jun 22, 2006)

nemul said:


> nevermind.


 
Sorry for the delayed answer ...

I didn't use the Lithium it was supplied with! On the basis that I don't plan to buy these for ongoing use, I thought it best to do my initial "playing" with regular Alkalines.

BTW, anyone else's Proton have an "unscrewable" tailpiece top?


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## jar3ds (Jun 22, 2006)

haven't heard of any other case...


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## Rob187 (Jun 22, 2006)

Well, well, well.

I went to take the battery out of my Proton tonight and what fell out after the battery? The positive battery contact tab of course. 2nd battery removal.

Email sent to photonlight customer service reporting problem.

Not impressed. A major failure resulting in an inoperable light after just a couple of days indicates a major design flaw. I only hope it can be rectified because I reallly like this light conceptually.

Rob187


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 22, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> According to the Delivery Confirmation data, my busted Proton arrived at LRI on Saturday the 17th. I'll let you folks know when the fixed unit/replacement unit arrives back to me. I was hoping that Bryan would answer my question from earlier, as to whether LRI is fixing these unit's with the defective positive contact or just replacing the light.



As of Wednesday's mail delivery, still no fixed/replaced Proton.


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## onthebeam (Jun 22, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> As of Wednesday's mail delivery, still no fixed/replaced Proton.


 Patience my friend. . .


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## jar3ds (Jun 22, 2006)

Rob187 said:


> Well, well, well.
> 
> I went to take the battery out of my Proton tonight and what fell out after the battery? The positive battery contact tab of course. 2nd battery removal.
> 
> ...


 from what we've been told its not a design flaw persay... its that your contact was installed backwards and so it doesn't have any support... thats why it broke off so easily... all the contacts problems that I know happen within the first couple of days of operation... so its either right or wrong... you got a wrong one... i got a right one, and no problems yet...

i know it sucks... bryan seems to be taking care of people by paying for their postage... looks like you'll be out only time not money...


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 23, 2006)

My light just stopped working for some reason today so I took the battery out to change it figuring it was the battery and guess what fell out behind it too? The same problem other people are having. I got the piece back in, put the same battery back in and it works now. :thumbsdow 

Photonlight.com is sending me a new one already b/c the one I have was shipped with scratches. I'm just waiting for my new one to arrive. 

I'm disappointed.


EDIT: Now the light doesn't want to work at all, it's flickering, doesn't want to turn on and when it does go on it won't stay on. Obviously it's b/c the piece is not in the right place after I put it back when it fell out.  The replacement light better not do this.....


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## SL230 (Jun 24, 2006)

The + point of contact was broken....


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## this_is_nascar (Jun 24, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> As of Wednesday's mail delivery, still no fixed/replaced Proton.



It arrived to me today. I'm not sure if it's a replacement or if mine was fixed and returned. At any rate, it's back to me. With the light, I received a personized memo appologizing for the issue and recommendations going forward. I really appreciate that. It was a nice touch and goes a long way in my book. Thanks LRI.


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## jar3ds (Jun 24, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> It arrived to me today. I'm not sure if it's a replacement or if mine was fixed and returned. At any rate, it's back to me. With the light, I received a personized memo appologizing for the issue and recommendations going forward. I really appreciate that. It was a nice touch and goes a long way in my book. Thanks LRI.


 glad to hear that TIN! thanks for the post...

I'm sort of curious of how your two lights will compare in the runtime/brightness... if you run the tests on the new light would you mind sharing over in your review thread? Thanks!

Jared


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## underdust (Jun 24, 2006)

Like *T_i_N*, I also received my Proton back from LRI today, along with a personalized note with an apology. 

In my case, the note specifically says that my Proton was replaced, however my original problem was different. In my case the red LED was not working. 

Now that I've had a chance to play with the light for a while, I'm quite pleased. And even though I had the problem at the beginning, I have a very high opinion of LRI and their level of service.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 26, 2006)

*I just snagged a new Proton on Ebay (buy it now)*
*I hope it doesn't have the same problem as some of the defective lights. *


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## jar3ds (Jun 26, 2006)

eeek... hope thats not why its on ebay... either way LRI will take care of your light


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 26, 2006)

I hope not too. The seller has 100% feedback so I'm not worried if I have to send it back or anything. We'll see. It shipped today.


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## MikeF (Jun 26, 2006)

Any word on the second shipment?

I gave the two Protons I pre-ordered in April to my Dad and my Father-in-Law for Father's Day since I received them before Father's Day. Before wrapping them and bidding them a fond adieu, I checked them for operation, and to verify that the positive contacts were OK, but since the 18th I have been Proton-less!


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## Cmoore (Jun 26, 2006)

I received my replacement Proton from LRI today. It only took a week for the light to make the round trip from coast to coast via USPS. As have others, I received a nice personal note from LRI apologizing for my inconvenience – a nice touch that’s good business.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 26, 2006)

I was told that my replacement shipped last Monday and I still don't have it. My emails have gone unanswered. 
Photonlight.com:thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow


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## PhotonLight (Jun 26, 2006)

ChocolateLab33 said:


> I was told that my replacement shipped last Monday and I still don't have it. My emails have gone unanswered.
> Photonlight.com:thumbsdow :thumbsdow :thumbsdow


 
If you'll send me a PM with your name or email address I can look into it for you.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 26, 2006)

*PM sent.*

*Thanks*


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## PhotonLight (Jun 26, 2006)

MikeF said:


> Any word on the second shipment?


 
Nothing yet. Apparently LRI has decided to go ahead with a couple changes which have delayed things a bit more. The metal tab for the positive contact does work just fine when done correctly and from what I've seen the failures seem to happen fairly immediately if they are going to happen at all, but it is obviously a potential weak point.


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## Archangel (Jun 27, 2006)

Brayn- any idea what these changes are (other than the positive contact)?


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## jar3ds (Jun 27, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> Nothing yet. Apparently LRI has decided to go ahead with a couple changes which have delayed things a bit more. The metal tab for the positive contact does work just fine when done correctly and from what I've seen the failures seem to happen fairly immediately if they are going to happen at all, but it is obviously a potential weak point.


 bryan are you saying LRI is changing the + Contact or are you just repeating the fact that the current +contact is fine if installed the correct way?


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## Frenchyled (Jun 27, 2006)

And if LRI is changing the + contact on the new Photon, is LRI foresee to upgrade the first batch ?

Thank you.


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## arab (Jun 27, 2006)

If it ain't busted... 

I'd say if the light develops a fault, return it to LRI. I've used their warranty services in the past and can say they stand over what they make. 

If we are talking about product upgrades, these are completely normal with most products - be they Renaults or toasters - and early adopters generally don't benefit (exception being intangible goods such as software, etc). This is just the way the world works. Perfection is rarely attained at the start, people buy early batches for their own reasons. For me, I bought the Proton because a small variable output AA torch is something I have wanted for many years (and I completely gave up waiting for Mr Gransee:huh: ) - and I wanted it asap. I also enjoyed the discount and didn't care about the lack of packaging. I knew that early batches would be more prone to issues than later, but, as per above, LRI's warranty and historically excellent customer care negated that as an issue for me.

Be happy


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## PhotonLight (Jun 27, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> bryan are you saying LRI is changing the + Contact or are you just repeating the fact that the current +contact is fine if installed the correct way?


 
Yes, the positive contact is being changed. Those that already have a Proton are not likely to be upgraded unless the positive contact continues to fail, which does not seem to be the case. So far, all of the failures seem to happen fairly immediately in the first couple of battery changes if it is going to happen at all. I have not yet heard of any of the repaired lights failing, or of any lights failing after making it through the first few battery changes without incident. 

The change to the positive contact is the most significant change. As for any other changes, I believe LRI is also looking at what can be done to improve the tailcap threads.


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## Perfectionist (Jun 28, 2006)

Any chance LRI could improve the brightness too - so it actually puts out the hyped 50-60 lumens !!


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jun 28, 2006)

I received my replacement Proton today from LRI and I also received my Proton from Ebay. I took the batteries out first thing to check and see if the positive contact would fall out and so far, so good. I hope they don't break. I really like this light, it's great to carry to work.


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## aceo07 (Jun 28, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> Any chance LRI could improve the brightness too - so it actually puts out the hyped 50-60 lumens !!



The most out of a 1xAA flashlight is probably 30 lumens, at least from what I've seen from flashlightreviews.com

The JET-I can get to 60 lumens with 2xAA!


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## belyo (Jun 29, 2006)

What changed the improved positive contact? Material? Design?



PhotonLight said:


> Yes, the positive contact is being changed. Those that already have a Proton are not likely to be upgraded unless the positive contact continues to fail, which does not seem to be the case. So far, all of the failures seem to happen fairly immediately in the first couple of battery changes if it is going to happen at all. I have not yet heard of any of the repaired lights failing, or of any lights failing after making it through the first few battery changes without incident.
> 
> The change to the positive contact is the most significant change. As for any other changes, I believe LRI is also looking at what can be done to improve the tailcap threads.


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## jdriller (Jun 29, 2006)

Got my Proton back today. Switch is as it should be. I don't have to crush the light to make it work. Thanks Bryan and LRI.


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## Wong (Jun 30, 2006)

Photonlight ,

may I know when will the second shipment arrives and shipped ? 

I just hope Photon solved all the problem and send out the defectless "proton" bcos is troublesome and take alot of time for Oversea buyer to return the light for rapair 

Cheers
Wong


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 1, 2006)

Anybody having a problem with the light turning on by itself in a pants pocket? It's happened to me twice now, it gets pretty hot in a pocket.


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## jar3ds (Jul 1, 2006)

nope... thats weird... is your button really sensitive?


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 1, 2006)

No problem here either. I've been EDC'ing my Proton since I received it a few weeks ago.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 1, 2006)

The button doesn't seem real sensitive. But if I lean against something while it's in my pocket it turns on and I don't think it should do that. My LionCub does that also but no problem, I lock out the switch on it. I really like the Proton too. Maybe I could get a little pouch for it but I need one with a clip b/c I don't wear a belt. I do like to just reach in my pocket and grab a light though quickly when I need it.


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## jar3ds (Jul 1, 2006)

if its a real problem... i guess you could put it into momentary mode when you put it in your pocket...


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 1, 2006)

how do I do that?


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## nemul (Jul 2, 2006)

ChocolateLab33 said:


> how do I do that?



turn it off and on 10 times fast...


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 2, 2006)

Ok, I'll try it. But then what happens after that? How do I get it to work then...details please....I'm at work and I can't do it now.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 2, 2006)

I just got my answer in post #43.


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## nemul (Jul 2, 2006)

ChocolateLab33 said:


> Ok, I'll try it. But then what happens after that? How do I get it to work then...details please....I'm at work and I can't do it now.


*momentary mode* -press on/off 10 times fast...
back to *normal mode* - from momentary mode, press and hold button till light cuts off...


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## jburgett (Jul 2, 2006)

My switch is also hard to press, so I decided to investigate. I placed my fingernail under the edge of the rubber cover and gently pried the rubber cover out. 

DON'T DO THIS! It came out rather easily, but it will be nearly impossible to replace without completely disassembling the rest of the light!
 

One look at the switch, and you can see why it was hard to press!







The switch on my unit does not align properly with the hole, and the rubber switch cover and plastic stiffening ring were designed for a centered switch. This is evident from the shape of the underside of the rubber cover. It has a raised center bump that is meant to contact the center of the switch.

NOTE: This looks like something that can happen when production first starts, and they have yet to iron out the "kinks" in the process.

I suppose I have voided the warranty with my quest for knowledge, so I would like to realign the switch and replace the button. Does anyone know how to open the head without damage? I have unscrewed the end, and the o-ring and silver bezel came out, but I didn't want to force the electronic/LED assembly out. Anyone try it?


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## javafool (Jul 2, 2006)

I had my LRI Proton in its carrying case in my pocket when I felt the heat. I don't know how long it had been on but the whole flashlight was HOT. Not warm, but almost too hot to touch all the way doww to the battery cap. I was really concerned that the supplied Lithium battery might go. I haven't been following this whole thread, but has anyone else had this happen?
The Proton was hot enough that I took it outside to cool down. There may be a serious issue here that I have not read about.


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## Perfectionist (Jul 2, 2006)

Basically ..... it'll be best to wait for the second (third?) batch of Protons before buying !!


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 2, 2006)

javafool said:


> I had my LRI Proton in its carrying case in my pocket when I felt the heat. I don't know how long it had been on but the whole flashlight was HOT. Not warm, but almost too hot to touch all the way doww to the battery cap. I was really concerned that the supplied Lithium battery might go. I haven't been following this whole thread, but has anyone else had this happen?
> The Proton was hot enough that I took it outside to cool down. There may be a serious issue here that I have not read about.


 

I just posted about this yesterday. Mine has turned on by itself too. Look at post #43. You can put the light into 'momentary' and it won't turn on any more by itself. I did it, it works and now it is back in my pocket again with no worries about it turning on. You are so right, it does get HOT!!!


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## The_LED_Museum (Jul 2, 2006)

I thought my Proton had eaten it when I switched it from dimmest red to full power white this morning, and it stayed dark.
But changing the battery was the fix.
Several hours(!) later, I measured the open-circuit voltage of the used lithium cell at ~0.6 volts, so that was indeed "it".


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## jburgett (Jul 2, 2006)

I also thought my Proton died, since I was expecting some warning for a dying battery. I did not read the manual, so I am not sure what warning there should have been. 

The bottom line was that the light went from full on to dead-as-a-doornail, and never gave a glimmer of light again until a new battery was inserted. There was no "moon-mode" to give a small amount of light, in order to find another battery. (This is something I really appreciate about my Peak Pacific). This experience was with the lithium cell that it came with. I also had the same experience with a NiMH rechargeable. No light AT ALL after the initial drop. 
:thumbsdow 

Is my sample defective? (Or do I need to use alkalines in order to get some warning?)


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## javafool (Jul 2, 2006)

ChocolateLab33 said:


> I just posted about this yesterday. Mine has turned on by itself too. Look at post #43. You can put the light into 'momentary' and it won't turn on any more by itself. I did it, it works and now it is back in my pocket again with no worries about it turning on. You are so right, it does get HOT!!!



Thanks for the info! I was pretty impressed with this light until that happened. Having to put the light into 'momentary' to carry it safely kind of defeats the purpose of carrying a flashlight, doesn't it?


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 2, 2006)

javafool said:


> Thanks for the info! I was pretty impressed with this light until that happened. Having to put the light into 'momentary' to carry it safely kind of defeats the purpose of carrying a flashlight, doesn't it?


 
Well, not really. All you have to do is hold the button for like 4 seconds until it turns off then it's fine to use. I would rather do that than have the light turn on in my pocket again. OUCH! (Just my opinion)


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 2, 2006)

I'm really having troubles understanding how you folks are getting "accidently activation" of the Proton while in your pocket. I carry mine, clipped mounted to the pocket, so that the Proton rides suspended on the inside of my right front pocket. In this configuration, you see the clip in a vertical orientation on the outside of the pocket. I've carried mine like this from day one. I also keep a mini Bic lighter and Benchmade Benchmite in that same pocket, loose in the bottom. I've never had an issue. With both of my Proton's you really can't activate them from a "flat" press of the thumb. You need to use the tip part of the thumb, so you can sort-of "get it in the opening" of the switching mechanism.


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## ViReN (Jul 2, 2006)

TIN, I think switch alignment could do the trick of auto turning on, as shown in #711.

Personaly, I never faced this, well frankly, I am used to set the light in Momentary mode (because I am a regular Photon Freedom user)... It's just a standard paractice...

The _New Module_ design that is coming up, should resolve 95% of issues i believe.

ViReN


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 3, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> I'm really having troubles understanding how you folks are getting "accidently activation" of the Proton while in your pocket. I carry mine, clipped mounted to the pocket, so that the Proton rides suspended on the inside of my right front pocket. In this configuration, you see the clip in a vertical orientation on the outside of the pocket. I've carried mine like this from day one. I also keep a mini Bic lighter and Benchmade Benchmite in that same pocket, loose in the bottom. I've never had an issue. With both of my Proton's you really can't activate them from a "flat" press of the thumb. You need to use the tip part of the thumb, so you can sort-of "get it in the opening" of the switching mechanism.


 
I think mine turned on after leaning against something like a counter or table in my house while cleaning. I don't know how else it could have happened but like I said man did it get hot. When I felt it on my leg and reached in my pocket to take it out




I had to put it on the counter and leave it there. But, problem solved now. And again, I really like this light.


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## Mr. Blue (Jul 3, 2006)

ViReN said:


> TIN, I think switch alignment could do the trick of auto turning on, as shown in #711.
> 
> Personaly, I never faced this, well frankly, I am used to set the light in Momentary mode (because I am a regular Photon Freedom user)... It's just a standard paractice...
> 
> ...



what new module design?
Bryan mentioned the posi tab and tail threads....did I miss sumthin?


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## javafool (Jul 3, 2006)

I have been carrying mine in my pocket during the evenings (when I get home from work) since shortly after I received it as part of the first batch. Yesterday afternoon I just did what I normally do, don't remember bumping anything and my I got a hotpocket! When I pulled it out of its case it was so HOT that I set it outside on the driveway till it cooled. That is the first time I ever felt the need to do that with a flashlight.
The button on mine is very easy to operate, BTW. It has a good feel to it.
Thanks to everyone who commented to Chocolatelab33 and me. I will try the lockout for a while, but there is no way a flashlight should get that hot. I don't know what would have hppened if I had accidentally turned it on in its case while I was placing it on the dresser or counter and then walked away.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 3, 2006)

javafool said:


> I have been carrying mine in my pocket during the evenings (when I get home from work) since shortly after I received it as part of the first batch. Yesterday afternoon I just did what I normally do, don't remember bumping anything and my I got a hotpocket! When I pulled it out of its case it was so HOT that I set it outside on the driveway till it cooled. That is the first time I ever felt the need to do that with a flashlight.
> The button on mine is very easy to operate, BTW. It has a good feel to it.
> Thanks to everyone who commented to Chocolatelab33 and me. I will try the lockout for a while, but there is no way a flashlight should get that hot. I don't know what would have hppened if I had accidentally turned it on in its case while I was placing it on the dresser or counter and then walked away.


 

I totally agree. Do you think it could have blown the battery if it wasn't discovered?


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## javafool (Jul 3, 2006)

ChocolateLab33 said:


> I totally agree. Do you think it could have blown the battery if it wasn't discovered?



That is part of what concerned me. I don't know but I wasn't willing to take the risk. It stayed outside until it cooled off, and when I turned it back on, I did it outside so if it started to run away I could just toss it and pick up what was left later.


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 4, 2006)

Per the LRI website,"... At any point while the secondary beam is indicating low battery power, you may *manually reduce the brightness* which will turn off the low power indication until the battery again reaches the point where it cannot support the current level of brightness.""

Has anyone actually been able to get this to work?


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## ViReN (Jul 5, 2006)

I have checked it with a 'eco' alkaline, it works well...


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 5, 2006)

ViReN said:


> I have checked it with a 'eco' alkaline, it works well...



At what point are you able to dim the white leds? At the point in time when the red starts flashing?


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## jar3ds (Jul 5, 2006)

my personal experience was after a runtime test... i came into my closet to see the red led on... So I clicked and held the button.... the output dropped red led shut off...


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## ViReN (Jul 5, 2006)

Dear TIN,

as soon as I saw Red LED (starting phase) I dimmed a bit (not measured), the LED went OFF.. again when red was on... i again reduced the brightness.... it worked till the lowest level, after that, red intencity just becomes brighter and brighter...


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## Rob187 (Jul 5, 2006)

Repaired light received today with letter of apology. Can't fault the customer service from LRI - top marks.

Lets hope it gives good service from now on.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 13, 2006)

There is another Proton for sale on Ebay from the same seller I got mine from. 100% feedback. I would snatch it up but I have 2 already. It's a buy it now, good deal. Go get it!!!

Just type in Proton flashlight.


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## Haz (Jul 13, 2006)

ChocolateLab33 said:


> There is another Proton for sale on Ebay from the same seller I got mine from. 100% feedback. I would snatch it up but I have 2 already. It's a buy it now, good deal. Go get it!!!
> 
> Just type in Proton flashlight.


 
Thanks for letting us know, price is good, however shipping to Australia is over 40% of the flashlights value, bummer.


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## Perfectionist (Jul 13, 2006)

Seems like the Proton mania has died down now ..... and it only took 25 pages


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## ViReN (Jul 13, 2006)

735 Responses and more than 30,000 views is also one of a record i believe in recent days 

I am enjoying my light to the fullest


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## chanik (Jul 13, 2006)

The switcher has thermal protection but it will allow the unit to run quite hot. It just keeps the circuitry from chernobling. The red warning is really there to keep the user from deep dishcarging NiMH or NiCd cells. For other cells and even for NiMH, it does allow the battery to drain below 0.9V at reduced power draw. There are times when you need light even if it wrecks the battery. And for alkaline or Lithium, might as well use it as low as it can go.

One more quirk: the unit can run to a lower voltage than it can start. Meaning after very deep discharge, the button might not function properly or the unit will not operate. Let it sit and have the battery recover to over 0.8V and you can keep torturing the cell to extreme depletion.


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## ChocolateLab33 (Jul 13, 2006)

ViReN said:


> 735 Responses and more than 30,000 views is also one of a record i believe in recent days
> 
> I am enjoying my light to the fullest


 

I am too, isn't it a great little light?!!!


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## Rob187 (Jul 14, 2006)

Proton malfunction:

My proton has started having a very strange intermittent malfuction:

When the button is clicked or held down (doesn't matter which) the red led does the following sequence: Comes on at its lowest setting, ramps up to max brightness and blinks, goes off, 1 flash, 2 flashes, goes into fast blinking, 3 flashes, 1 flash, 2 flashes, fast blinking, 3 flashes, 1 flash, 2 flashes, fast blinking, 3 flashes, 1 flash then off.

Pressing or holding the button does nothing during the sequence and it can only be stopped by taking the battery out. After putting the battery back in the same problem continues. It is clearly not a random pattern.

I am using the original battery, energizer lithium which is reading 1.68V. The battery works fine in another light so that is not the problem.

It doesn't happen all the time but enough that I now consider it to be highly unreliable.

What is going on here? Has this happened to anyone else?

I have emailed LRI about this but would like to know if this is a one off electronics glitch or what.

Update:

Now the white LEDs come on for about 1 second with a quick click then go off. This is not the momentary mode that you get with 10 quick clicks.

Update 2:

Battery out and back in. Now it is working correctly. Can somebody please explain to me what is going on here?

Update 3:

It has gone through a coupe more variations, including all 6 white LEDs following the pattern of flashes and then working normally for a while. I left it for 20 minutes, pressed the button once and we are back to the flash pattern. At the moment, the white LEDs come on and dim when held but the light turns off when the button is released instead of holding the last brightness.

What on earth is going on here?


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## PhotonLight (Jul 14, 2006)

Rob187 said:


> Proton malfunction:
> 
> My proton has started having a very strange intermittent malfuction:
> 
> ...


 
That behavior doesn't sound like anything I've seen yet. Could it be the switch sticking? Your first description of the red light going through it's brightening/strobe sequence sounds like what might happen if the button was stuck on "on". Some of the other behavior doesn't quite fit with this theory, but maybe the stuck switch is intermittent? 

Anyway, if you'll send it in for warranty service Leo can take a look at it. Send an email to custservice at photonlight.com if you need a return label.

---
In other news... it sounds like we should finally be shipping the remaining Proton pre-orders by the end of next week.


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## Perfectionist (Jul 14, 2006)

30,000 views !! God Damn !!

Imagine if LRI had actually produced a Proton as per the original spec ..... they could have taken over the world !! 

Never mind - there is always the Proton 2


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## GJW (Jul 14, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> Yes, the positive contact is being changed.





PhotonLight said:


> In other news... it sounds like we should finally be shipping the remaining Proton pre-orders by the end of next week.



Will the rest of the pre-orders be sent the new 'changed' version?
Is there a way to tell changed from original by looking only at the packaging?


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## GJW (Jul 16, 2006)

Just got mine (off of eBay) and I can't believe no one has yet commented on what I'm going to call 'the disco ball effect'.

In the beam you've got the hotspot and the corona, then it tapers off darker and darker, and then at the outside of the beam, just where you'd expect complete darkness, you've got 6 bright spots of light that correspond to the 6 LED positions.
They're easily 1/2 as bright as the hotpsot -- really hard to miss in anything approaching darkness.
Holding the light just in front of me at bellybutton height, with my arm slightly bent and my elbow touching my side, the 12 o'clock spot (if I orient an LED to be at 12 o'clock) is on the ceiling almost directly overhead -- just at the upper outer edge of my peripheral vision.
Holding the light and spinning it around its long access produces a very cool disco effect indeed.

No one else has found this noteworthy???

The multi-LED Peaks have a similar effect but to a much much lesser degree.
With the Peaks it's just a thin sliver of light and it's much closer to the corona as to be easily overlooked.
But with the Photon they're just past the darkest part of the beam and being so bright, they're very distracting.

Still evaluating the rest of the light.
The lowest red setting seems almost useless.
Checking your watch in a darkened theatre is about the only use I can imagine so far.
The white is brighter than I'd expected but I'm still undecided on the tint.
White it ain't but it's not excessively blue or yellow either...
brown?.....

Oh well....
back to my playing.


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## nemul (Jul 16, 2006)

GJW said:


> Just got mine (off of eBay) and I can't believe no one has yet commented on what I'm going to call 'the disco ball effect'.
> 
> In the beam you've got the hotspot and the corona, then it tapers off darker and darker, and then at the outside of the beam, just where you'd expect complete darkness, you've got 6 bright spots of light that correspond to the 6 LED positions.
> They're easily 1/2 as bright as the hotpsot -- really hard to miss in anything approaching darkness.



i was laying in bed one night turning my light and watching the little spots race around the room! lol


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## SaturnNyne (Jul 20, 2006)

ViReN - After a few months away from this hobby (I thought I was cured...) I came back to do some research for a friend. As soon as I got here, I saw this thread, remembered that I'd made a mental note to see how the Proton turned out whenever it finally arrived because it looks perfect for me, read your glowing review, and, with a little help from some of the others in here, you got me. I placed my order a few days ago, my first new light since February. And now this cursed hobby has taken hold once again.

So thank you, I'm looking forward to the Proton and hope it turns out alright. I'm slightly concerned about the tint, but I think I'm glad they went with the 5mm array, a nice floody beam makes this just what I need for an EDC (along with my Rainier for more power) and I suspect I'll find it plenty bright for its intended uses.


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## milhouse (Jul 20, 2006)

Now that I have had a fun time (month or two, when did it get released?) playing with the Proton, I would like to offer my humble opinion of this light. I have taken it on several camping outings, roamed around the dark backyard at night, explored the darkened basement etc, shown it my friends and so on.

The bottom line for me is I mostly like it, maybe really like it but it fell short of what I was expecting and therefore I have to "keep looking" or "keep waiting" for that just so perfect light that is out there.

Pros: Nice and small, very lightweight, uses AA battery, fully adjustable brightness, red LED to boot which you also can adjust. The pros are all the things that make this light REALLY cool! If I could stop here, then it would be a home run in my book. But I can't, dang it.

Cons: *The crappy tail threads.* I have tried three types of batteries. (1.the included lithium,2.regular alkaline3.NiMH) The energizer alkalines must be ever so slightly longer than the one they included, because I couldn't get the cap to screw on all the way. (it went on easier with their included cell for some reason) After I tried to be a man about it, I finally got it on. Lining up the threads so they don't strip, getting about maybe 3/4 of a turn total until it's tight just doesn't make it seem really cool and reliable. If I had to change the battery in the dark, where I couldn't look at it I would just hate to try that. Also, I noticed a small (very tiny) piece of silver metal fell out one of the battery changes. I couldn't figure out what it was until I noticed the NiMH battery had a small chunk scraped out of the plating on the negative contact. I guess the pressure on the battery and twisting action of the contact did a small machining job on it. So, no big deal I guess. It always works, just kind of tough.

Oh, let me say one last thing about the quality of the beam. I really like it for using inside when I can have it be very dim. The bright down to dim level is really cool. Outside, where a better throw seems (to me) to be the useful quality, it doesn't "thrill me to no end". I compared my SL propolymer luxeon, Fenix L1P and the proton. No question, the relfector and luxeon wins there, but the flood beam of the proton really limits it's overall use in my book. My modded Fenix on dim works great on short distances, but the proton can't reach out on an equivalent long shot. Dang it! Accross my 100 ft dark back yard, with Fenix L1P vs the proton, I could see one thing was a peach tree with the fenix and with the proton it was just another dark scary monster. I have decided I like reflectors and luxeons better than arrays of 5mms.

Conclusion: If LRI had someone else do their machining work (the only things I can compare it to are my Fenix L1P, the occasional mag light, and my peak matterhorns), the light would be just dandy. My Peak and Fenix are nice and smooth, easy to thread. Since I am not a machinist, I have a hard time knowing what went wrong, but in my "consumer" opinion, something went awry. As it is, dissappointment factor is high. 



Thanks to all you flashlight junkies for making and contributing to this forum. I have certainly enjoyed all that is offered here!


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## Perfectionist (Jul 21, 2006)

Isn't the "new" batch of Protons gonna fix these problems ????


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## this_is_nascar (Jul 21, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> Isn't the "new" batch of Protons gonna fix these problems ????



That was my understanding and the reason for the delay.


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## diggdug13 (Jul 22, 2006)

this_is_nascar said:


> That was my understanding and the reason for the delay.




I called Photon about the shipping status of the second batch and I was told by them that the reason that the second batch was delayed was to fix the poor tail cap threads and the battery contacts. I guess the fixes weren't all that they were cracked up to be.


doug


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## SaturnNyne (Jul 22, 2006)

diggdug13 said:


> the reason that the second batch was delayed was to fix the poor tail cap threads and the battery contacts. I guess the fixes weren't all that they were cracked up to be.



On what do you base that assessment? If you're referring to milhouse's review, notice that he's had the light at least a month, since they came out, so he definitely does not have one from the second batch.

However, it does seem the fixes have fallen a little short of the mark we were hoping for. Bryan of PhotonLight said in another thread that for the second batch lights have had the threading changed and the assembly process corrected to reduce failures. The actual fix of the positive contact is in the works but won't be seen for probably another month.


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## Cmoore (Jul 22, 2006)

I think LRI owes me a Beta Tester's T-Shirt! I suspect I'm not alone.


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## diggdug13 (Jul 22, 2006)

SaturnNyne said:


> On what do you base that assessment? If you're referring to milhouse's review, notice that he's had the light at least a month, since they came out, so he definitely does not have one from the second batch.
> 
> However, it does seem the fixes have fallen a little short of the mark we were hoping for. Bryan of PhotonLight said in another thread that for the second batch lights have had the threading changed and the assembly process corrected to reduce failures. The actual fix of the positive contact is in the works but won't be seen for probably another month.




I called them up and asked why my second light (that was bought as a gift to someone else) was delayed. that was there answer to me from Photon.

doug


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## MikeF (Jul 22, 2006)

I received two Protons this morning from USPS. They are the third and fourth ones that I bought from LRI, and I asume they are from the second batch. They have much smoother threads that were much easier to start than the first two I got, and I removed/inserted the batteries several times and the positive contact showed no signs of problems. I gave the first two that I received back in June to my Dad and Father-In-Law for Father's Day, so I was waiting for these two for a little over a month. So far so good.

:rock:


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## ViReN (Jul 23, 2006)

MikeF said:


> I received two Protons this morning from USPS. They are the third and fourth ones that I bought from LRI, and I asume they are from the second batch. They have much smoother threads that were much easier to start than the first two I got, and I removed/inserted the batteries several times and the positive contact showed no signs of problems. I gave the first two that I received back in June to my Dad and Father-In-Law for Father's Day, so I was waiting for these two for a little over a month. So far so good.
> 
> :rock:



 Good news 

could you post pictures of contact and threads....


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## MikeF (Jul 23, 2006)

I will be post pictures here in a little while. I have started three times now and gotten the boot the previous two times so hopefully the third try will be the charm.


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## MikeF (Jul 23, 2006)

Well I just wiped out 90 minutes of work to post images so hopefully this time worked!  



These images are from the two Protons I received yesterday, and I am assuming they are from the second shipment from LRI. I don't know if they have been offically designated V2, but that is what I am calling them unless corrected by LRI or Viren. I ordered them after I received my first two Protons while they were still "Pre-Sale" priced. These first two (V1) were given as gifts, so I do not have them to get side-by-side images. Viren requested images of the threading and contacts. The images show the internal threading of the battery tube/body, and the external threading of the tailcap with the "-" (negative) contact in a couple of different angles. I also included a couple of images "down the bore" of the "+" (positive) contact. Hope these illustrate the differences between the two shipments.



I noticed that when re-attaching the tailcaps of the V2 Protons, it was much easier to start the threads as they felt cleaner and deeper, and that there was no side pressure from the pocket clips to cause cross threading.



*LRI Proton opened, Body on left, Tailcap on Right*







*LRI Proton opened, Body on left, Tailcap on Right*







*LRI Proton opened, Body on left, Tailcap on Right, clearly showing an upside down "Made In China" sticker*







*LRI Proton “Down the Bore” showing the positive contact – Image 1*







*LRI Proton “Down the Bore” showing the positive contact – Image 2*







*LRI Proton looking at Tailcap Contact – Image 1*







*LRI Proton looking at Tailcap Contact – Image 2*







*LRI Proton looking at Tailcap Contact – Image 3*





PM with your email address and I will send full size images.

Mike


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## ViReN (Jul 23, 2006)

very nice pictures...


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## Quickbeam (Jul 23, 2006)

We had a 6 hour power outage last night due to strong storms that came through the area. After messing around with the super bright lights for a little while (Yea, Baby!), we went into low-light mode and I used the Proton's red LED almost exclusively the rest of my waking hours. It worked extremely well for avoiding the cat (why do they always try to run in front of your legs?) and navigating the house.


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## BentHeadTX (Jul 23, 2006)

I noticed the tailcap has around 3 threads and the body has around 6 to 7 theads. This tells me that they will probably make a new tail cap that will use all those extra threads. This will make the light a bit longer but it will add to the durability.
 It would be great if LRI used the same type of contruction that Peak uses with their lights. A gold plated contact sealed in epoxy for bomb-proof durability. Eventually, LRI will get there... good to see progress.


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## jar3ds (Jul 23, 2006)

Quickbeam said:


> We had a 6 hour power outage last night due to strong storms that came through the area. After messing around with the super bright lights for a little while (Yea, Baby!), we went into low-light mode and I used the Proton's red LED almost exclusively the rest of my waking hours. It worked extremely well for avoiding the cat (why do they always try to run in front of your legs?) and navigating the house.


 doug,

the cat does that because he/she likes you 

...

i just got back from a military weekend drill w/ the guard and here are two things i noticed with my proton:

1) I was standing in a line when one of the cadre said "whats that light in your (breast) pocket?" Sure enough my proton decided to show its first mistaken activation since I've owned it... It was hot but not so much that i couldn't hold it, yet not warm either ...

conclusion: I now put my light into momentary mode everytime... its a really easy to do and works great... no complants on the mishap... 

2) Out of all the lights I brought, the proton was the only one i used... Almost all my lighting needs were personal ones:

a) getting ready before everybody in the dark
b) checking oil on dip stick
c) getting to and from the restroom

as doug said above... the red feature is REALLY awesome... its the first light that I can easily carry (a lot less think than a HDS), feel comfidant in, great runtime, and has a red lighting feature... the white light on low was very useful too...

conclusion:

once LRI gets some of the bugs worked out (threads and contacts) *which it already seems they have*... the proton will be my #1 recomended light for personal use due to its array of features and advantages over other lights... I could easily use this light has a 'mouth' light... limited my need for a headlamp since its weight is so little... i'm starting to think that LRI was correct in the method of the ramp up (red starts low and goes up, white starts high and goes down)... i complained at first about this... but now i think its the best way... 

:goodjob: Photon & LRI


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## MikeF (Jul 23, 2006)

BentHeadTX said:


> I noticed the tailcap has around 3 threads and the body has around 6 to 7 theads. This tells me that they will probably make a new tail cap that will use all those extra threads. This will make the light a bit longer but it will add to the durability.


 
If they made the externally threaded tailcap portion longer the tailcap woud be longer but the overall length could be the same, just longer overlap between the sections.
Mike


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## jar3ds (Jul 24, 2006)

MikeF said:


> If they made the externally threaded tailcap portion longer the tailcap woud be longer but the overall length could be the same, just longer overlap between the sections.
> Mike


 thats what i was thinking too.... glad i'm not the only one


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## arab (Jul 26, 2006)

My Proton has just failed.

I took it out from my pocket and put it aside. When I returned, I noticed it was switched on. There was lots of bright sunlight at the time, so it wasn't immediately obvious it was on. I switched it off and thought no more of it.

Until the next day when I went to switch it on it wouldn't. Looking into the LEDS, you can observe a *very* brief flicker when the switch is first pressed - then nothing. Pressing and holding does nothing. I tried removing the battery, replacing it (even tried the unused lithium original) cleaning the insides, etc but to no avail.

I've emailed Photon and am awaiting a response. Hope they have some of the phase II batch left ...

Anyone else see such a failure?


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## PhotonLight (Jul 27, 2006)

MikeF said:


> If they made the externally threaded tailcap portion longer the tailcap woud be longer but the overall length could be the same, just longer overlap between the sections.
> Mike


 
The overall length would have to be increased slightly. As it is now, there's just barely enough room for the AA battery. Increasing the length of the threaded tailcap portion would require a little extra length in the body to allow for the battery.


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## Wong (Jul 28, 2006)

Received mine  Nice little light :thumbsup:


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## Craig720 (Jul 29, 2006)

Wong said:


> Received mine Nice little light



I received mine recently, too. My thoughts exactly. It IS a nice little light.


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## Blindasabat (Aug 1, 2006)

Craig720 said:


> I received mine recently, too. My thoughts exactly. It IS a nice little light.


Me too. And within a couple of days it earned it's keep.

I was night mountain bike riding and lost my riding buddy. I waited and looked around for him for a looong time before my headlight battery went out. I decided I needed to go back to my car and I was the furthest from it I could be on the trail, but there was a road near by that went back to the parking area, so I pulled out my backup flashlight, the Proton - I had brought it just because it was still very new to me and it is so small and bright. I have a very small backpack, so room is at a premium. 

Now I will tell you before anyone says it (and because this is a Proton review thread) my headlight is a very reliable light I have used for many years without a hint of failure, and I had a brand new high capacity battery that should have lasted a long time if not for losing my partner.

Anyway, I pull out the Proton. I had just that day put a short piece of bike inner tube at the end over the clip and body, and it was great to be able to easily mouth hold while using my hands to check out my headlight. The red LED kept me from getting swamped with bugs as I waited for my buddy while enabling me to slowly ride around the clearing I was in.

The Proton worked great for my ride back to my car on the very dark road. I ended up hand holding it easily with a hand on the handlebars because of its small size and weight. I was able to keep it on 50% red and illuminate the road just in front of me while there was enough ambient light to see the general direction of the road. I tried white at first, but white up close washed out the distant view, while red preserved my night vision to see both up close and far away as I rode at 20mph (32kph) - no slow pace. When the road went down, the full white enabled me to ride down hills at 27miles per hour (43+ kph) confident I could see far enough ahead. While on red, if I saw a sign, a quick tap off, tap on full white to read it, then tap off, press for red to continue without slowing.

I had been playing with the Proton a lot since I got it off B/S/T (thanks again T_I_N) so I was somewhat afraid the battery would die, but I still have the original battery in it now after a two day trip to a factory where I used it as my work EDC to good effect - great for looking inside machines.

I'm very impressed with the useability of this light. The range of brightness in both white and red makes it great for so many uses. And the white "can light up the side of a barn" as we used to say in Ohio. Well almost. There are several brighter 1AA lights, but this one is still impressive and has enough to do what I need to. The list of lights this one will replace in my collection and as EDC is impressive.

So what happened to my buddy? He took a turn and missed me - we met up back at the cars. Everything turned out OK even though a 1.5 hour ride turned into 2.5 hours


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## PhotonLight (Aug 3, 2006)

Blindasabat said:


> So what happened to my buddy? He took a turn and missed me - we met up back at the cars. Everything turned out OK even though a 1.5 hour ride turned into 2.5 hours


 
Great story. It's good to hear your Proton is earning its keep already.

For all of you still waiting on your pre-orders, as of today all orders through 7/19 have now been shipped. Someday soon, we hope to actually have all of the Proton in-stock with all of the back-orders filled.  The extra testing that all of the Protons have been going through has been making things painfully slow, but seems to be paying off judging by the sharp decrease in positive-contact issues we've seen with these recent shipments.


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## Perfectionist (Aug 3, 2006)

Cool !

When will the Proton be available on general release with all the packaging etc ?

Want to get a bunch of these to give as presents


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## PhotonLight (Aug 9, 2006)

ETA for packaged Protons is sometime in September. 

As of today, the (unpackaged) Protons are now in-stock & available for immediate shipment. All pre-orders/back-orders have now been shipped.


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## arab (Aug 9, 2006)

I received my replacement Proton today. All looks well - thanks!


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## McGizmo (Aug 12, 2006)

I received a Proton just a couple days ago and I wanted to chime in with my 2 cents. For starters, I used to think I was adept at electronic devices and UI's but I now admit that the current level of gadgets has left me feeling _out of it_; much as I used to view my mother who needed her VCR programed for her. Some devices are rather intuitive and well labeled and some require either a knack or memory I am incapable of.

The Proton has a single button that provides access to various levels and sources of light. In no time I was able to figure out how to operate this light and it is intitive for me. :thumbsup: The sequence of light output is not my ideal but then I may be in a minority and it doesn't really matter because if the light were programed to my priorities, there would be times that the original sequence would be more appropriate. Of primary significance, this light has various outputs and these outputs can be reached with little effort. 

I think the ergonomics of the light are excellent. The button is opposite the clip so it is easy to locate. The clip is in the bezel down orientation which I prefer and well scaled to the light. The size and use of the single AA battery makes this an excellent EDC, IMHO. The beam from the Nichias is an excellent distribution and any artifact present in a single LED is over cast from light from the additional LED's so that the beam in aggregate is very acceptable and useful. I was impressed with the original proto that hosted the single Nichia Jupiter. This light is an improvement over the proto in terms of flux or so I gather. Over the life of the light and with extensive use, I don't know if there is a difference in lumen maintenance that could be factored in as a significant consideration or not. Beyond topic for discussion, the point is moot any way because this light is what it is. And what it is is pretty dang impresive, IMHO.

I find the light to be well more than adequate in flux and because of this, my desire (if not actual _need_) would be to take a cut in transmission of light with the addition of a protective window over the faceted LED grill. The worlds I illuminate have dirt, mud, debris and water present and for the same reason I can's wear white clothing, my tools and treasures need to be easily cleaned and wiped off. 

If I were still doing sailboat racing at night, I think I would be very happy with the single red LED. As it is, I would love to put a single white 3 mm Nichia 310CS in place of the red LED. For me, this would be a vast improvement and provide a dynamic range of white light and low level flood VS higher levels of more collimated light that is not available in any other package of similar size and utility.

In terms of actual utility and versatility, I think this light has earned a spot in a very small grouping of illumination tools. Another member of that group, IMHO, is a light that also took a long time to market and one that to this day is not understood or appreciated by many for its utility. That would be the SF A2.

Thanks to David Allen and LRI, there is a new example of SSL which showcases the greater range and potential over yesterday's flashlight. The Proton has a good balance of yin and yang, lux and flux, ease and complexity. :thumbsup:


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## ViReN (Aug 12, 2006)

Great Writeup McGizmo


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## jar3ds (Aug 21, 2006)

thanks for your thoughts Don...

I do find that the proton is very effective and provides a solid purpose for me in my illumination needs...


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## arab (Aug 22, 2006)

My replacement continues to work very well. My only comment would be that it is a lot noisier than the first one. It makes a buzzing noise both when on full and when on low using the white LEDS. However the level of noise is much reduced when using the single red LED.

I would have thought that - if the noise was made by the controller - the number of LEDs lit would make no difference.


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## MikeF (Sep 1, 2006)

From 07/22/06:


MikeF said:


> I received two Protons this morning from USPS. They are the third and fourth ones that I bought from LRI, and I asume they are from the second batch. They have much smoother threads that were much easier to start than the first two I got, and I removed/inserted the batteries several times and the positive contact showed no signs of problems. I gave the first two that I received back in June to my Dad and Father-In-Law for Father's Day, so I was waiting for these two for a little over a month. So far so good.
> 
> :rock:


 
Well, I now have a dead Proton. It must have switched on in my pocket because it was real hot but not on when I emptied my pockets when I got home from work. I am guessing that it ran until the battery died or until the protection shut it down and I grabbed it before it had a chance to cool off. It would not light up again with the original Lithium battery either before or after cooling off for a while, and when I tried replacing the dead battery with an Energizer 2300 NiMh and an Alkaline Energizer it would not light up at all. I don't have any AA Lithiums so I can't check out a direct Lithium replacement. Bummer!!


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## SaturnNyne (Sep 3, 2006)

What a shame that the bugs still haven't been entirely chased out of this light.
The Proton had me so excited when I returned to cpf and found it was finally "ready," it looked like it was going to solve all my edc troubles. However, after all the problems and slow/incomplete fixes, when Arab's broke I cancelled my order and I continue to be very glad I did. Ultimately, I'm grateful to the Proton for being so faulty, it led me to a B42XRGT instead (with a red Photon Freedom to handle my variable red needs) and I couldn't be happier with the arrangement. At less than $50 more shipped, the wonderful, advanced, perfectly-regulated, extremely well crafted, reliable, and bright HDS ends up being a much better value and I no longer find the Proton at all attractive.
But it was so close...


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## arab (Sep 4, 2006)

MikeF said:


> From 07/22/06:
> 
> 
> Well, I now have a dead Proton. It must have switched on in my pocket because it was real hot but not on when I emptied my pockets when I got home from work. I am guessing that it ran until the battery died or until the protection shut it down and I grabbed it before it had a chance to cool off. It would not light up again with the original Lithium battery either before or after cooling off for a while, and when I tried replacing the dead battery with an Energizer 2300 NiMh and an Alkaline Energizer it would not light up at all. I don't have any AA Lithiums so I can't check out a direct Lithium replacement. Bummer!!


 
This sounds similar to my fault. You don't mention if the light _very_ briefly flickers when you now switch it on - mine did.


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## MikeF (Sep 5, 2006)

arab said:


> This sounds similar to my fault. You don't mention if the light _very_ briefly flickers when you now switch it on - mine did.


 
I don't see any flicker at all. Dead as a doornail.


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## Perfectionist (Sep 15, 2006)

Will the new batch of Protons from LRI have these problems sorted out ??


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## ChocolateLab33 (Sep 15, 2006)

*I own two Protons and with the first one, I had the contact problem (switch falling out) but it was replaced and my second one was/is fine. I really like this light very much, it does so much and fits nice in my pocket. It's in my pocket right now! (I'm at work)*
*   *


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## Perfectionist (Sep 16, 2006)

When will LRI have the darn Retail packs ready !! 

I wanna buy some presents !!


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## MikeF (Sep 16, 2006)

Well, I contacted Photon about my Proton and received a response on September 10th that said: "we'll email you a shipping prepaid shipping label (on Monday) which will get your light sent to the manufacturer for quick servicing."

That Monday would have been September 11th. When I didn't hear from them, on the 14th I sent another e-mail for more info about the email with the shipping label so I could return my bad Proton for repairs. I received another email that appologized for the delay and said I should receive it soon.

I don't get it, if they don't have them available to replace mine right away, I understand, but why not just say what is going on instead of what seems like a delaying tactic to stall me until a replacement might be available? As of right now, Saturday the 16th I still haven't received the email allowing me to return the Proton for repairs/replacement. If they couldn't send the email for the shipping label for whatever time frame, why not just say that they won't have replacements for XXX days/weeks/months/years? The members of this board have been very patient waiting for months for the first and second shipments, so a little more information would be met with understanding rather than frustration with what seems like stalling and lack of information. This seems totally contrary to my previous experience with Photon, where I have had many very quality purchases in the past.

:huh2:


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## lcranston (Sep 20, 2006)

I purchased one last week and am not happy. This should be from a "new batch" and the positive contact fell out while taking out the stock lithium to put in a rechargeable battery. I will contact LRI to see about sending it back for repair. I feel this issue should not have occurred this late in the game.


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## Perfectionist (Sep 20, 2006)

Please, somebody say something good about the Proton !


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## ViReN (Sep 21, 2006)

As far as I can say, my better half... took it away from me! ....the light has been a EDC for her since....

I believe Proton will come up with the upgraded V2 soon, similar to the Evolution from Photon I, II, III, Freedom and now to Freedom MAX. Improving upon at every stage (not that any of the stages were wrong/faulty)... similar would be the case with Proton too... 

I am also hopeful that the New light will have Light Engine potted and the light will also have an option of Power LED in near future.... perhaps even improved electronics (on regulation aspect)

This is how it has worked for Most of Manufacturers (Cars, Computers... everything)... including LRI... New models _usually _are an improvement over past models

OTOH Fenix has its own way of improving, with less stress on Version Numbers, recently they have started intorducing new Models with new shapes...


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## Perfectionist (Sep 21, 2006)

Dude, I hope you are right !!

Has anybody placed an order for the "new" proton - would love to see a review first !


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## MikeF (Sep 21, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> Please, somebody say something good about the Proton !


 
I need to say that I really do like the Proton very much. I am still waiting for the pre-paid shipping label to be sent however so I can return the Proton I have that quit working (see post #775 in this thread). In defense of the flashlight, three out of four that I purchased are still working fine, it was only the one that I was using as an EDC that failed when it switched on in my pocket.


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## PhotonLight (Sep 22, 2006)

MikeF - Please give us a call or send another email and we can try again. Although in a few cases I have been a bit slow getting the return labels out, if it's been more than a day or two then there is a possibility that the email is being blocked by spam filters along the way. We have had a case where a customer's spam filter was blocking the email due to the pdf file attachment. Worst case, we can just put the file up on the website and give you a link to download it from.

----

To those of you who are waiting for the "new version", we hope to see them in the next couple of weeks. As I mentioned in a previous post, the actual design change to the positive contact has not yet made it into any of the production lights. The production problems with assembly that was partially responsible for the problem have been addressed, however, and all of the lights are being checked very rigorously before shipping out, which has greatly reduced the problem. We are still seeing the loose positive contact issue occasionally though, and are trying to take care of customers as quickly as possible when it does happen. The threads have been improved with the current Protons, however there is another change going into effect with the next production run which will approximately double the amount of thread engagement. From the sounds of things, these new Protons may still be several weeks away, but the changes should resolve all of the issues that have come up so far. The retail packaging should be ready about the same time.


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## PhotonLight (Sep 22, 2006)

I have also received this note from Laurel @ LRI regarding the type of grease used on the tailcap threads. All Protons purchased in the last month or so should have been assembled using this aluminum-specific grease, but those of you who own a Proton built before this date may see an improvement in the feel of the threads by using this type of grease



> _If you have customers that complain of a grainy feel, or difficulty threading, or for general maintenance of their light you might want to suggest using the type of grease electricians use for aluminum wire connections - it's amazing the improvement it makes. The brand and name I'm using is, "Gardner Bender, Ox-Gard, Anti-oxidant Compound"._


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## arab (Sep 22, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> Please, somebody say something good about the Proton !


 
Somebody? Suggesting everything being said is bad? Eh?

I own one. I am delighted with it. There was a problem and LRI sorted it out in a very professional manner. No problems here. For the avoidance of doubt, this would represent "something good". I'm not alone


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## Perfectionist (Sep 22, 2006)

Great !! 

Just that after seeing an entire page of nothing but complaints ..... I was getting a little worried !!

So the "new & improved" Proton will have all the previous problems sorted out ...... will it also be a little brighter as well ?? !!


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## 1962Chevy (Sep 22, 2006)

I have one and have had no problems so far. Its very useful. The red beam is perfect for reading a map in a car when someone else is driving, or checking on a sleeping child. The white beam is great indoors. It doesn't have a great deal of throw, but there's plenty of light to use outdoors walking or to see across a small yard. The tint's not perfect if you shine it on a white wall, but in use, its not a problem and not too apparent. I've had luxeons that are as blue, if not more so. The size and weight are great for a pocket. Its not my idea of a keychain light, but then, I don't like anything over photon size on my key ring. Its not perfect, but its very good.


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## MikeF (Sep 22, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> MikeF - Please give us a call or send another email and we can try again. Although in a few cases I have been a bit slow getting the return labels out, if it's been more than a day or two then there is a possibility that the email is being blocked by spam filters along the way.


 
Email sent.


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## lcranston (Sep 22, 2006)

I just don't understand why everyone is giving LRI a thumbs up when the basic issues haven't been resolved and should have been corrected prior to shipping them out after becoming aware of the issues. The relationship between a car manufacturer and a flashlight manufacture is not even in the same ballpark with the number of parts involved. The positive contact issue should have been entirely resolved by now IMO. To Photonlight.com's credit, they are sending me a new Proton to replace the defective unit along with a prepaid return envelope. However, I am not even 80% sure my second light will be OK or if it will work in the long run. Upgraded to V2? V1 hasn't gotten off the ground yet. LRI shouldn't reduce the problem, they shoud eliminate it prior to sale. I am sorry for offending anyone. I have several photon microlights and love them all. My first led was a photon. I wish LRI the best. I just don't want to hear excuses anymore or how great customer service is with a problem and want something I can rely upon. Anyway, thats my rant for being so exited about the light and the rapid let down. I hope the second light works and will let you know how it turns out.


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## MikeF (Sep 23, 2006)

PhotonLight said:


> MikeF - Please give us a call or send another email and we can try again. Although in a few cases I have been a bit slow getting the return labels out, if it's been more than a day or two then there is a possibility that the email is being blocked by spam filters along the way.


 
I sent an email yesterday so they will send me the pdf file of a prepaid shipping label so I can return the defective Proton I reported to them almost two weeks ago. What am I missing? I don't get it, I just am trying to return one Proton out of four that I prepaid for that is defective. This will still require shipping time to Photon, and then replacement shipping time after it is repaired or replaced. Please, just send the label!


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## MikeF (Sep 25, 2006)

I just received the pdf file that is the pre-paid shipping label.:rock:


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## lcranston (Sep 26, 2006)

Got the replacement Proton today along with the return envelope for the defective one. I replaced the battery several times to see if it would fail and it did not. The light has no bluish tint, more yellowish. It is fairly bright. It doesn't seem much bigger than my Ultra G. The dimming and strobe functions work well and easy to work. The disco ball effect is noticed more indoors when the light is held at arms length, but not bothersome when I am holding it near my side aas if walking. All in all, if it continues to function as intended, a very nice light.


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## Perfectionist (Sep 26, 2006)

Wondering ..... can the Proton take a 14500 cell or a split CRV3 to make it brighter ??


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## NewBie (Oct 1, 2006)

ViReN said:


> Last night I was able to a Lithium Test, It appears around 2 Hours of some what regulated Output. have a look here. Also, note that overall output is more than NiMH by a good margin.



Hey Viren.

Any idea why the light is unregulated in that plot? Since you had Lithiums, I would have expected something rather flat, as Lithiums primary cells have rather flat curves to start with.


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## jar3ds (Oct 1, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> Wondering ..... can the Proton take a 14500 cell or a split CRV3 to make it brighter ??


 no.... you'll be driving the 5mm way too much... it'll acually be dimmer... lithiums primaries are going to give you the brightest light availble


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## ViReN (Oct 2, 2006)

NewBie said:


> Hey Viren.
> 
> Any idea why the light is unregulated in that plot? Since you had Lithiums, I would have expected something rather flat, as Lithiums primary cells have rather flat curves to start with.



Sorry NewBie, I have no idea about it 

Perhaps the Heat/Current Drawn/Boost Circuit might be responsible for this or may be it's just my light that is behaving this way...

ViReN


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## NewBie (Oct 3, 2006)

Humm, I just looked over at Quickbeam's website and saw it also had a completely unregulated runtime plot, just shows the typical curve of a lithium battery discharging.

It has the same unregulated curve with alkalines too.

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/lri_proton.htm

I didn't realize folks were still making unregulated flashlights these days, besides the cheapies.

Odd.


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## ViReN (Oct 3, 2006)

I think alkaline curve is similar to Arc AAA's curve (perhaps could call it as a semi-regulated) if not fully regulated...

Similar is the case with lithium... 

but for the (total) output coming out of a 1AA light, its really superb...


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## jar3ds (Oct 3, 2006)

ViReN said:


> I think alkaline curve is similar to Arc AAA's curve (perhaps could call it as a semi-regulated) if not fully regulated...
> 
> Similar is the case with lithium...
> 
> but for the (total) output coming out of a 1AA light, its really superb...


 i think its just PWM


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## Handlobraesing (Oct 14, 2006)

I must have this. Looks like it puts the Fenix L1T to a shame, the only light I know that is dimmable on 1AA.


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## Christoph (Oct 14, 2006)

If you want one I have one that has not been carried PM me.

C


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## chevrofreak (Oct 14, 2006)

Handlobraesing said:


> I must have this. Looks like it puts the Fenix L1T to a shame, the only light I know that is dimmable on 1AA.


 
Puts it to shame? How do you figure?


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## TooManyGizmos (Oct 14, 2006)

:huh::naughty:

Handlobraesing ,

How does it do that ?????

In what way exactly ????

Can you give comparisons of the two ????

thanks ....................... TMG/



Handlobraesing said:


> I must have this. Looks like it puts the Fenix L1T to a shame, the only light I know that is dimmable on 1AA.


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## EngrPaul (Oct 14, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> Puts it to shame? How do you figure?


 
The first proton I got shuts off after about 3 minutes. The second one they send didn't run at all. Seems to me those are poor runtime results. 

The Proton is the only flashlight I had that the button would catch on your clothing when trying to put it in your pocket.

Plus using the Proton is a little complicated, it works differently than their keychain product. The keychains you can turn on dim and slowly increase the light. For the proton, you have to go full bright white and then dim it.

The only shame here is that the Proton is better on paper than it is executed.


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## Handlobraesing (Oct 14, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> The first proton I got shuts off after about 3 minutes. The second one they send didn't run at all. Seems to me those are poor runtime results.



The one that gives you 3 minutes... what kind of battery are you running?


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## chevrofreak (Oct 14, 2006)

EngrPaul said:


> The first proton I got shuts off after about 3 minutes. The second one they send didn't run at all. Seems to me those are poor runtime results.
> 
> The Proton is the only flashlight I had that the button would catch on your clothing when trying to put it in your pocket.
> 
> ...


 
It looked very good on paper, but was poorly executed. From what I've read poorly built as well.

I'm still curious why Handlobraesing thinks it's better than the Fenix L1T.


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## Handlobraesing (Oct 14, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> It looked very good on paper, but was poorly executed. From what I've read poorly built as well.
> 
> I'm still curious why Handlobraesing thinks it's better than the Fenix L1T.



Continuous dimming is cool


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## chevrofreak (Oct 14, 2006)

Handlobraesing said:


> Continuous dimming is cool


 
yes, but PWM isn't


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## TooManyGizmos (Oct 15, 2006)

According to Quickbeams light output readings , the Proton is much dimmer than even a Fenix L1p , when you compare them . It's in the neighborhood of the Fenix- LOP output .

It seems to be only just a little brighter than a Photon Fusion headlamp , which I have . It's kinda dim , compared to the LUX I and LUX III emitters which I am now accustomed to and prefer .

I like the features of the Proton , and I like the dimming qualities for a small single AA cell light.

If they would make it at least as bright as a Fenix L1p , and retain the flexible UI switch features - then I would buy it at their excessivley high price .


.......................... TMG/:naughty:
.


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## jar3ds (Oct 15, 2006)

well... the Proton isn't perfect... but if you get one that doesn't break (like mine)... its a very 'useful' light...

i personally think a *S-bin LuxI McR-16 w/ a ring of 3mm red LEDs* would have been a better choice... sort'a like a tiny Surefire Kroma... but don't ask me


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## TooManyGizmos (Oct 15, 2006)

:naughty:

That *would* have been better ....... jar

And more worth the money


................. TMG/

.


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## BentHeadTX (Oct 15, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> well... the Proton isn't perfect... but if you get one that doesn't break (like mine)... its a very 'useful' light...
> 
> i personally think a *S-bin LuxI McR-16 w/ a ring of 3mm red LEDs* would have been a better choice... sort'a like a tiny Surefire Kroma... but don't ask me



I would like mine with a Cree XR-E LED, deep reflector and two 3mm red LEDs (think original design but a XR-E instead of Jupiter) Oh yeah, a potted head, gold contact and stout HA-III. 

Since LRI hates Lumileds, the Cree LED would fit their preference. They also like flood and the Cree can do that well... maybe they can have Fenix build them for 'em.


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## EngrPaul (Oct 15, 2006)

Handlobraesing said:


> The one that gives you 3 minutes... what kind of battery are you running?


 
It wasn't the battery. It was an unintentional auto-shutoff feature (in any mode or brightness). Photon said the unit was defective.


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## Hans (Oct 15, 2006)

jar3ds said:


> well... the Proton isn't perfect... but if you get one that doesn't break (like mine)... its a very 'useful' light...



But it sure doesn't seem like a reliable light from all the reports coming in. And if there's anything I really hate, it's a lack of reliability. How much use is a light you can't really take anywhere because it may fail at any time because of its poor construction and/or its lack of proper quality control? Plus I don't really like overdriven LEDs at all.

So much for the Proton. Seemed like an interesting light *before* it hit the market.

Hans


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## revolvergeek (Oct 23, 2006)

Bought 4 Protons 10 days ago and am sending two dead ones with broken positive contacts back today. One died the first day, the other on the third. I don't know that I will keep them when they come back.


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## ViReN (Nov 21, 2006)

now that *100 Lumen @ 350 mA Cree XR-E* is out, I think it would be a right time that *Proton 2 * is released ... perhaps something is already cooking.... who knows...


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## BentHeadTX (Nov 22, 2006)

ViReN said:


> now that *100 Lumen @ 350 mA Cree XR-E* is out, I think it would be a right time that *Proton 2 * is released ... perhaps something is already cooking.... who knows...



The race is on... when will the Proton have good construction, an XRE and two 3mm red LEDs? I'll take two when they do... or if the "F" word flashlight company comes out with their version.


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## jar3ds (Nov 22, 2006)

i want a ring of 3mm LED's... i don't care if its fatter ... 

seeing how slow LRI is though.... i'm not going to be waiting for this fictional Proton 2


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## Perfectionist (Dec 2, 2006)

ViReN said:


> now that *100 Lumen @ 350 mA Cree XR-E* is out, I think it would be a right time that *Proton 2 * is released ... perhaps something is already cooking.... who knows...



Viren .... do you know something about an upcoming Proton 2 ?? !! (I really hope you do !!)

Cos I'm gonna get me a P1D Cree unless ya stop me !!


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## ViReN (Dec 2, 2006)

Perfectionist: I do not have firm information, perhaps PhotonLight would be able to say...but it seems like some thing is in cooking...in lines of a better Regulated circuit, longer runtime, Reflector and Cree XR-E version... 

LRI has always been innovative in terms of bettering the best, right from Photon I to Photon Freedom Max as and when technology enhances.

LRI had delayed orignal Proton because of the Nichia LED was not up to the mark. they finally settled down for a Nichia CS LED.

Now that we have Cree XR-E is there, I believe that this time LRI wont be lagging behind with Proton 2.


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## BentHeadTX (Dec 3, 2006)

ViReN said:


> Perfectionist: I do not have firm information, perhaps PhotonLight would be able to say...but it seems like some thing is in cooking...in lines of a better Regulated circuit, longer runtime, Reflector and Cree XR-E version...
> 
> LRI has always been innovative in terms of bettering the best, right from Photon I to Photon Freedom Max as and when technology enhances.
> 
> ...



Feb of 2005 LRI showed the Proton prototype with a high output Nichia Jupiter that would output 60 lumens with one watt of drive. It also had two 3mm red LEDs in the reflector and CPF went wild. Alas, it did not happen but the prototype proves that LRI does have the design complete. 

The Laughing Rabbits don't like Lumileds but I wonder if they like Cree? NewBies charts on a Cree P1 bin show 72 lumens at 300mA at 3.06V (0.92 watts) Cree sent two of their XRE LEDs to the NIST to get tested in an intergrated sphere and after 5 minutes of heating, they put out over 75 lumens per watt. Hmmmmm....

Although pure speculation on my part, the XRE is the specific LED that would exceed LRI's specs of their original Proton design. They could take the original prototype design of the Proton I, upgrade the head with solid potted brass (gold plated?) positive contact and throw a Cree inside. CPF would go wild again and clamor about availability. I agree with Viren that they should keep it under wraps and just have it show up to prevent the scathing they took over delays etc over the Nichia 5mm version. 

I would love the great UI of the Proton mixed with the improved head and XRE to get it up to spec of the original design. Knowing LRI, they might even offer a "premium" version with Q bin Crees and HA-III on the body. I am keeping my fingers crossed.


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## chevrofreak (Dec 3, 2006)

BentHeadTX said:


> Feb of 2005 LRI showed the Proton prototype with a high output Nichia Jupiter that would output 60 lumens with one watt of drive. It also had two 3mm red LEDs in the reflector and CPF went wild. Alas, it did not happen but the prototype proves that LRI does have the design complete.



After having played with a Nichia Jupiter, I really doubt that their prototype was anywhere near 60 lumens if it was driven at 1 watt.


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## Perfectionist (Dec 3, 2006)

Where is PhotonLight these days ?? Did all the posts about Proton problems scare him off !!


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## ViReN (Dec 3, 2006)

Perfectionist said:


> Where is PhotonLight these days ?? Did all the posts about Proton problems scare him off !!



I hope Not


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## PhotonLight (Mar 7, 2007)

No, I'm still around. Just haven't been checking the CPF forums regularly over the past few months. I can't comment about the Cree, other than the obvious fact that LRI is well aware of it's capabilities. Most of LRI's effort during the last months has been concentrated on getting the issues worked out of the existing Proton design, but obviously they have to look to the future as well. After LRI's experience with Proton & announcing it long before it was actually ready for production, I think LRI will be keeping any new products under wraps (as far as official announcements at least) until they are very close to actual retail availability.


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## LowBat (Mar 7, 2007)

PhotonLight said:


> After LRI's experience with Proton & announcing it long before it was actually ready for production, I think LRI will be keeping any new products under wraps (as far as official announcements at least) until they are very close to actual retail availability.


It was unique to be able to discuss a flashlight with the manufacturer while it was in development. While ideas and even constructive criticism can be useful, the thread on the LRI website was getting out of hand with excessive venting. I can understand why you're going to keep things more under wraps until release.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 7, 2007)

PhotonLight said:


> No, I'm still around. Just haven't been checking the CPF forums regularly over the past few months.


Dude, you really should be checking CPF every day - we are your best customers and beta-testers !! :touche: Get LRI to make it part of your job !! 




> I can't comment about the Cree, other than the obvious fact that LRI is well aware of it's capabilities.





> but obviously they have to look to the future as well.


Does that mean a Cree based Proton is in development ??  




> Most of LRI's effort during the last months has been concentrated on getting the issues worked out of the existing Proton design


Any update on when the new "improved" version would be available ??  




> After LRI's experience with Proton & announcing it long before it was actually ready for production, I think LRI will be keeping any new products under wraps (as far as official announcements at least) until they are very close to actual retail availability.


Good idea !! Although letting people know what LRI is working on would be welcome ..... just don't say when they will be released !!


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## PhotonBoy (Mar 7, 2007)

I'd buy a CR123-powered Cree-based light with the LRI user interface in a heart beat.


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## jburgett (Mar 7, 2007)

I'd like to have a Cree-based 1xAA Proton!  

I don't need the red at all. In fact, I replaced all the LED's in my Proton with Snow29's from Peak. I really like the fact that I can push and hold the button to start with a very dim white light. This would be the same with a single Cree emitter - excellent! Just brighter, and probably more battery life and throw too.

By the way, a better switch than the rubber boot would be welcome too. 

Cheers!


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## ViReN (Apr 12, 2007)

PhotonLight said:


> No, I'm still around. Just haven't been checking the CPF forums regularly over the past few months. I can't comment about the Cree, other than the obvious fact that LRI is well aware of it's capabilities. Most of LRI's effort during the last months has been concentrated on getting the issues worked out of the existing Proton design, but obviously they have to look to the future as well. After LRI's experience with Proton & announcing it long before it was actually ready for production, I think LRI will be keeping any new products under wraps (as far as official announcements at least) until they are very close to actual retail availability.



Now... Some thing must be happening.... perhaps a Cree... perhaps a Seoul.... or even a 6 x Rebel Proton in same size.... i.e. 100 * 6 Lumens...


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## BentHeadTX (Apr 12, 2007)

ViReN said:


> Now... Some thing must be happening.... perhaps a Cree... perhaps a Seoul.... or even a 6 x Rebel Proton in same size.... i.e. 100 * 6 Lumens...



I would agree, the Cree/SSC LEDs have the output to make the original Proton design work. Initially, the idea of a 1AA light putting out 60 lumens for 60 minutes took CPF by storm. Now, a Fenix L1D CE puts out 70 lumens out the front and runs for 105 minutes for $50. The Peak Pacific SP with SSC P4 LED will blow past 60 lumens easily along with those from other companies. 

I don't think it is a question of will LRI use the Cree EZ1000 die LEDs, it is more a question of when.


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## Perfectionist (Apr 12, 2007)

BentHeadTX said:


> I don't think it is a question of will LRI use the Cree EZ1000 die LEDs, it is more a question of when.


You are probably right ..... but it is the "when" which can cause most of the frustration !!


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## jar3ds (Apr 15, 2007)

the proton is still one of my most reliable and useful lights that I carry... to have access to red light and white light in almost an infinite amount of output levels... 

still... nobody has made anything to match it... looking forward to future products!


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## ViReN (Aug 21, 2007)

*Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE*** Cree based ***Proton Pro*** Announced*

And there you go.... exactly 4 months later, we have New Products announced...

Proton Pro the CREE Light with RED LED's and Rex .. Quoting from http://www.equipped.org/ORSummer2007.htm



> *Photon*
> 
> At the Photon booth, David Allen had a couple new lights to show off and another item of important news. In reverse order, he was very excited over the prospect of introducing a new, even brighter 5mm white LED to all the lights in the line. David tells us that these new Nichia LEDs will be exclusive to Photon initially. As with the last LED upgrade, this one is claimed to once again almost double the light output compared to the existing Photon lights! And, once again, also does so with no appreciable increase in battery drain. You just got to love this sort of incredible advance in the technology. Photon will make this a running transition starting in September.
> The new ReX ($30) is the first rechargeable Photon and the first inherently rechargeable truly key chain sized flashlight. However, key chain size doesn't mean it's as small as the conventional Photon. As can be seen from the photos (click here to see a size comparison), it's quite a bit larger. It's also thicker and it weighs double the Photon Freedom at 14 grams (0.49 ounce) (without any accessories like the clip attached). But, it's smaller, in many cases much smaller, compared to the auto remotes we all carry. So, it's still small enough to be easily carried.
> ...


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## LowBat (Aug 22, 2007)

Interesting. I wonder what sort of lens that is in the picture.


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## greenlight (Aug 22, 2007)

nice to see another optic style light offering, for those of us who don't care for reflectors.


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## ViReN (Aug 22, 2007)

*Re: Review: LRI Proton is ***HERE*** Cree based ***Proton Pro*** Announced*



LowBat said:


> Interesting. I wonder what sort of lens that is in the picture.



It's a PMMA (polymethylmethacrylate) lens *More Info...*

quoted below from the link...(emphasis is mine)


> The material is often used as an alternative to glass. Differences in the properties of the two materials include
> 
> PMMA is less dense; its density can range from 1150-1190 kg/m3. This is less than half the density of glass which ranges 2400 to 2800 kg/m3.
> PMMA has a higher impact strength than glass and does not shatter but instead breaks into large dull pieces.
> ...



Good Alternative to Polycarbonate perhaps...


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