# ITP A3 Eos EXPLODED!



## Rexlion (Feb 28, 2010)

:eeksign: I am shocked and dismayed. I gave a brand new ITP A3 Eos SS light to the wife of a friend/co-worker for Christmas. Yesterday my friend was showing the light to some relatives (at an after-funeral get-together, of all things). He says it didn't seem to be turning on, and he had it pointed up to his face looking at it and trying to figure out why. Fortunately he lowered it away from his face as he gave it another twist, and was starting to bring it up again to see if it had come on, when the business end blew out!  He got some glass in his hand, but thankfully no other injuries to anyone. :sweat:

He said the explosion sounded like a gunshot and startled everyone in the building (I think he said a VFW hall). I asked him about the AAA cell in use. He said it was an alkaline cell, and after the explosion he examined it and the cell looked perfectly normal. So that is not what blew. Which leaves just the electronics end. What is in there that could hold and then release energy so violently?

Unfortunately he threw the light in the trash, so we can't send it back for inspection to see what went wrong. (I would really have liked to see it firsthand, and try to have some expert look at it also.) :sigh: But it's long gone now. 

I have another one of these lights myself (the head is on a Preon body at the moment), plus a couple of Maratac AAAs that I use a fair bit. I'm not sure what to think. What could have gone wrong, and is there a danger that it could happen again?


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## crizyal (Feb 28, 2010)

It had to come from the battery venting in some way (even if not visible). I can't imagine that there is anything in the electronics that could release that much energy. The evidence is gone so we might not ever know.:duh2:


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## bansuri (Feb 28, 2010)

Sadly, without the light all you will have is pure speculation which will answer nothing. 
Evidence is everything.


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## Olef (Feb 28, 2010)

Usually the only electronics component that can go  with any force is a capacitor and I can't imagine anything small enough to fit in the A3 EOS causing enough mayhem to break glass. Just not big enough, not enough capacity. All you are left with is mechanical failure of some kind which seems unlikely in this case as this would not produce the reported explosion or a battery event.

Come to that, I'm really struggling to imagine enough power from a single alkaline AAA to produce anything that could be described as an 'explosion'.

Did the light get hot?

There must be more to this than reported. Energizer lithium perhaps? 10440?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting your reporting of events as given to you is accurate but I am not certain you were given the full story. If it transpires normal off the shelf alkaline AAA's have explosive capabilities then I for one am going to be very surprised.

Olef (with a SS A3 EOS c/w Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAA on his keychain)


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## LeifUK (Feb 28, 2010)

Possibly overheating causing stress to build up in the lamp glass, which then shattered violently. It would explain a lot, but the user would surely have felt the heat build up in the torch body. Maybe the glass was already stressed, perhaps due to the O-ring being trapped. It's a shame it was dumped as examination would surely have pinned down the cause.


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## tsask (Feb 28, 2010)

Olef said:


> There must be more to this than reported. Energizer lithium perhaps? 10440?


 
I was wonderfing if it would have been worse on a 10440.
It doesn't sound like it the folks would be using a 10440 in this situation.

This story is very important to me because I frequently use my L0D/Microstream in close proximity to face and eyes. 
Was the explosion a 'safer' event with Stainless Steel body compared to aluminium? Titanium??


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## dandism (Feb 28, 2010)

It was the battery, I'm sure. I checked the A3 yesterday that I gave my mom and it didn't twist. It was very tight. When I did open it sort of popped from pressure built up from a leaky battery. I cleaned it out and put a nimh back in. No more alkalines.


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## LEDninja (Feb 28, 2010)

If it was the battery venting then going to SS or Ti would make things worse. The pressure would reach a higher level before something gives way.

Many of the flashlights designed for hazardous operation (Streamlights and UK etc.***) have 2 features to prevent battery venting from causing an explosion.
1) They have a chemical or catalyst pill in the head to neutralize any hydrogen vented. Note alkaline batteries vent hydrogen so you can have a hydrogen oxygen explosion not just pressure from the venting gas.
2) They have a vent in the body to release any pressure buildup.

*** Not all Streamlights and UK lights have these features. Only the ones with hazardous Class 1 Div 1 & Class 1 Div 2 ratings.


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## Flying Turtle (Feb 28, 2010)

It certainly sounds like a battery venting. However, I wonder if it would be possible to torque it down so much that, under just the right conditions, the glass might shatter. If it was not coming on and "he gave it another twist", perhaps it was simply overtightened. Not very likely I suppose. Can't believe he would just toss it in the trash.

Geoff


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## sabre7 (Feb 28, 2010)

Possibly caused by a venting battery? Unfortunately, since the explosion was reported by a 3rd party and the flashlight and battery no longer exist, all explanations are open to endless speculation without there ever being a definite answer as to the cause. :shrug:


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## kramer5150 (Feb 28, 2010)

Without recovering the damaged light its 100% impossible to say for certain what went wrong.

Knowing the electronic components used in a typical DC-DC board and XPE emitter, I think a leaky / venting alkaline cell is most likely the culprit.


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## Monocrom (Feb 28, 2010)

How does a AAA alkie vent??

(I also EDC the AAA Maratac model. Now I'm wondering if I should be worried. I keep a Duraloop in mine.)


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## brted (Feb 28, 2010)

Man, I would have loved to have had that burned out shell of a flashlight. Too bad he threw it away. Though I imagine he was pretty mad at it. I hope he got all the glass out okay.

+1 on the battery outgassing somehow, unless some water got in it, shorted, and turned in to steam. I don't know what else would expand like that.


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## kramer5150 (Feb 28, 2010)

Monocrom said:


> How does a AAA alkie vent??



I have no idea, but I have seen them "bulge" and leak before. So of all the components inside an LED flashlight, the battery is the only thing in there thats capable of creating a pressure increase. I merely speculate...


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## Rexlion (Feb 28, 2010)

They aren't 10440 people... wouldn't even know what that was. And they're not into rechargeables. So I believe them when they say it was an alkaline.

Since he told me it wasn't coming on at the time, I doubt it could have been a heat buildup. Twisting too hard... I could see that, but no way it could make the thing go off with a loud bang like this one did.

As for throwing it away, to them it was junk... no longer functional, and it had proved itself somewhat dangerous, so why hold on to it. Yeah, you or I would have kept it, but not everyone is like us.  

I guess it made me wonder if there were a capacitor in the head of that light, or if there were some way a malfunctioning LED could act similar to a capacitor, with sudden release of energy. It seemed like if the cell vented hard enough to blow the glass out with a loud noise, the cell should have looked non-normal. But what do I know, I'm not an engineer or anything! It sure puzzles me.


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## space-time (Feb 28, 2010)

I have an iTP A1 (CR123A cell instead of AAA) E0S SS and the stainless steel shell certainly does fit/screw together well/snugly and seems to have good O-rings. Probably the same with the A3 SS. I had never thought about letting battery venting out of the shell! :huh:

From the Energizer Alkaline MSDS data sheet, section 7:

www.omega.com/msds/msdspdf/MSDS0373.pdf

_"Mechanical Containment: If potting or sealing the battery in an airtight or watertight container is required, consult your Energizer Battery Manufacturing, Inc. representative for precautionary suggestions. Batteries normally evolve hydrogen which, when combined with oxygen from the air, can produce a combustible or explosive mixture unless vented. If such a mixture is present, short circuits, high temperature, or static sparks can cause an ignition. 

Do not obstruct safety release vents on batteries. Encapsulation (potting) of batteries will not allow cell venting and can cause high pressure rupture"_ 

Makes me think about drilling a 1/32 hole in the side of my light to let any built up pressure escape...


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## sabre7 (Feb 28, 2010)

Seems this thread has turned into speculation about battery issues  rather than issues with the ITP A3 Eos


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## Apollo Cree (Feb 28, 2010)

I have my doubts that enough hydrogen would build up to make a big explosion. There just doesn't seem to be enough volume for a large hydrogen/air explosion. There might be enough to explain the broken glass. 

Consider the weight of the air that fits in the volume of the empty space in the light. Now multiply that by 20% because that's how much oxygen there is in air. Now multiply that by 1/8 because it takes 8 grams of oxygen to burn 1 gram of oxygen. 

Now, you have 2.5% of the mass of air in the flashlight body as hydrogen to fuel the explosion. That's not much fuel for the fire. 

Now before anyone points out that there might be a higher pressure of hydrogen inside the battery, there's only enough oxygen to burn that much hydrogen, unless the battery vents oxygen (or some other oxidizer) as well as hydrogen. More hydrogen won't produce a bigger explosion because only that much hydrogen will burn. 

Pressure buildup from venting sounds like the most likely choice. 

Tantalum capacitors can burn/explode, but it doesn't seem likely that there would be enough mass in any tantalum capacitors likely to be in the flashlight to make a big bang. 

It seems to me that the only thing in the package with enough potential energy is the battery itself.


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2010)

sabre7 said:


> Seems this thread has turned into speculation about battery issues  rather than issues with the ITP A3 Eos


 
One explosion doesn't really constitute a design issue with that light. Although obviously it makes me feel a bit uneasy about EDCing my AAA Maratac model. 

There's still a good chance that this was just a fluke due to a defective battery.


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## SureAddicted (Mar 1, 2010)

Monocrom said:


> How does a AAA alkie vent??



Alkalines don't vent, there are no vent holes so they just leak.
Maybe the battery was put in the wrong way, the A3 eos is not reverse polarity protected.
Maybe just maybe he used carbon zinc/zinc chloride batteries which aren't suitable in high drain devices. They are the worst kind of batteries you could buy.
Maybe he bought the batteries off ebay, if so, I rest my case

Giving a SS light to a non flashaholic wasn't the best move IMHO.



Rexlion said:


> He got some glass in his hand, but thankfully no other injuries to anyone.



This has me surprised. Between the front lens and the battery, you have a small pcb, then the led, then the reflector followed by the lens. I would of expected all the components to end up in his hand as well. Mystifying to say the least.


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## dandism (Mar 1, 2010)

The acid that leaks probably reacts with the anodizing or aluminum and creates a gas.


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## paulr (Mar 1, 2010)

Alkalines can leak hydrogen gas, I thought. If turning on the light makes a spark, then bang!!!


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## Flying Turtle (Mar 1, 2010)

There must be some possibility of venting. My old UKeLED has a safety valve, and the old PT Attitude some kind of "absorber pellet" in the head. And, I have noticed a gas release opening up the Arc AAA.

Geoff


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## LeifUK (Mar 1, 2010)

So it can't really be heat build up and the battery apparently showed no signs of damage. So perhaps a moderately slow venting leading to a pressure increase, and the front glass blows out. Maybe a battery whizz will know whether the battery can vent enough H2 to cause a worrying pressure build up. The Energizer information given earlier does seem to suggest that the quantity of H2 vented may be significant. In which case this would apply to any torch using alkaline cells. Could ITP and others be having a Toyota moment?


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## McAllan (Mar 1, 2010)

With my (although limited then still quite a bit greater than average) technological knowledge I'd say there's nothing wrong with the ITP light other than being too pressure proof.
Slow leakage of gas from the alkaline cell and/or reaction of leaks with aluminum, batteryspring etc (but not the anodizing as it's non reactive with most substances).

If sealed tight enough the pressure builds up and when threads, glass, whatever can tolerate any more pressure then - 

That's also why MagLite in the AAA and AA lights have not a normal o-ring at the bottom but a special one with a lip which seals it against water but allows a slow pressure build up to escape safely (it won't do wonders with the lithium and LiIon accidents also on CPF). On Mags D and C cell lights the pushbutton provides the pressure escape so no need for a special o-ring on them.


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## bspofford (Mar 1, 2010)

Do NiMH cells vent? Are they safer in a closed space like an AAA or AA light?


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## McAllan (Mar 1, 2010)

bspofford said:


> Do NiMH cells vent? Are they safer in a closed space like an AAA or AA light?



Under normal use - no (otherwise you'd be loosing material and therefore loosing capacity fast). And even under abuse I've never experienced one that did when discharging.
Charging however is another story. If charger is defect or inappropriate for the battery it can vent. When it does that don't consider using it anymore - it's toast or actually it was toast even before it vented. Might have a little capacity remaining but nothing worth bothering about.


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## bspofford (Mar 1, 2010)

So it seems that NiMH batteries are safer to use in closed spaces like flashlights without venting capability. Correct?


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## EEG (Mar 1, 2010)

Don't have one of these lights but would it be possible to twist hard enough (if the light had a weak point) to push the electronics and reflector into the glass with enough preassure to cause it to shatter with a great deal of force?


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## SureAddicted (Mar 1, 2010)

EEG said:


> Don't have one of these lights but would it be possible to twist hard enough (if the light had a weak point) to push the electronics and reflector into the glass with enough preassure to cause it to shatter with a great deal of force?



Not really, there is a spring in the base of the body. Even if you tighten it right down, there would be a little give, if there wasn't it would crush the positive nipple on the battery.


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## kramer5150 (Mar 1, 2010)

This is a little off topic, but back in my car audio days I accidentally confused a 6V LED with a 12V and hooked the sucker up. It exploded with a LOUD pop and the plastic lens material shattered all over the place. I would be surprised however if an alkaline AAA has the power density to do this with an XPE...


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## Hooked on Fenix (Mar 1, 2010)

Here's my take on what happened. Hydrogen was released from the alkaline battery and leaked into the head where there is space and some oxygen. The combination of hydrogen, oxygen, and either an electrical connection or the heat built up from the stainless steel caused an explosion in the head (not a simple pressure release) which sent the glass lens flying in pieces at people.


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## march.brown (Mar 1, 2010)

I think that the seals were so good that no gas was able to leak out of the casing ... I think that over a period of time the pressure slowly built up until the weakest link failed ... This would be the glass rather than the metal body ... The glass exploded with a bang which is what you would expect in an exploding pressure vessel ... No bright flash was seen which eliminates any flame ... So it must have been due to a gradual buildup of pressure.

The moral of the story is that either torches should themselves have vents of the type fitted to some divers watches, or you have to loosen off the tailcap every few days and listen for a hiss ... If you hear a hiss. wait till it stops and then change the battery and dispose of the old one.
.


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## AEHaas (Mar 1, 2010)

If there was an explosive gas causing the incident then there would have been a flash (this one would think). None was reported.

More likely to me is that the pill was a little too tight on installation. Over time and repeated heating and cooling cycles the glass fatigued. Heating up in the persons pocket and twisting may have been the last cycle and the glass blew out - the only direction it can go even if it started going in first.

aehaas


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## SureAddicted (Mar 1, 2010)

I think there's more to this than meets the eye. 
If this was related to gas buildup, why aren't there more posts on CPF about alkalines causing gas buildup and ending with a loud bang? Also the OP mentioned that the explosion sounded like a gunshot, that is a pretty big bang coming from a very small AAA powered light. An explosion of that magnitude would do more damage to the light than just a broken lens, the reflector and pcb should of shot out the front with great force. 
The light isn't sealed that well, because you can push down on the head to activate it when its off. If the thread tolerance was high then I could understand.
Like everyone has mentioned, it could be due to gas buildup, but there are so many questions that need answers. This can be a potential hazard for all AA and AAA SS lights.


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## LG&M (Mar 1, 2010)

LEDninja said:


> If it was the battery venting then going to SS or Ti would make things worse. The pressure would reach a higher level before something gives way.
> 
> Many of the flashlights designed for hazardous operation (Streamlights and UK etc.***) have 2 features to prevent battery venting from causing an explosion.
> 1) They have a chemical or catalyst pill in the head to neutralize any hydrogen vented. Note alkaline batteries vent hydrogen so you can have a hydrogen oxygen explosion not just pressure from the venting gas.
> ...



At least some Pelican light have feature also.
I don't think a Ti or SS light would build up more pressure the glass gave out not the body of the light.


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## Egsise (Mar 1, 2010)

Rexlion said:


> Unfortunately he threw the light in the trash, so we can't send it back for inspection to see what went wrong. (I would really have liked to see it firsthand, and try to have some expert look at it also.) :sigh: But it's long gone now.


Pictures, or it did not happen.


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## TorchBoy (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm siding with mechanical failure - mechanical or thermal stress in the glass. Hydrogen build up from a leaking alkaline simply doesn't make sense, especially when it still looked fine. You guys who love that idea, how about proving it _can_ happen?


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## HKJ (Mar 1, 2010)

SureAddicted said:


> I think there's more to this than meets the eye.
> If this was related to gas buildup, why aren't there more posts on CPF about alkalines causing gas buildup and ending with a loud bang?



There are rapports about gas buildups once in a while, if the light has a rubber switch, it will balloon out. On twisties I have tried it on my Fenix LD01, where is got *very* hard to twist, but the light was solid enough and the gas was released when I opened it up.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 1, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Pictures, or it did not happen.



That's rude, childish, and unnecessary. 

He explained the situation.


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## SureAddicted (Mar 1, 2010)

HKJ, now that you mentioned it I do recall reading about ballooning tailcap rubber boots, as a result of gas buildup. I thought this was only an issue with multi-celled lights. The way I see it (or saw it, I'm no battery expert) is that if you have unmatched cells, one of the cells will get fully discharged, then the other cell reverse charges into the discharged cell while the reversed cell releases gas. So how does this equate with single celled lights?


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## ragweed (Mar 1, 2010)

Gads! Does this also happen in 10 lummens or less lights? I am getting panicky here!


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 1, 2010)

SureAddicted said:


> HKJ, now that you mentioned it I do recall reading about ballooning tailcap rubber boots, as a result of gas buildup. I thought this was only an issue with multi-celled lights. The way I see it (or saw it, I'm no battery expert) is that if you have unmatched cells, one of the cells will get fully discharged, then the other cell reverse charges into the discharged cell while the reversed cell releases gas. So how does this equate with single celled lights?



Reverse charging is not a problem with single cell lights. 

Batteries in single cell light can still vent, leak, or even explode. Especially rechargeables that have been abused by a bad charger. Double especially Lithium rechargeables that have been over discharged or charged.


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## TorchBoy (Mar 1, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> Batteries in single cell light can ... even explode.


I'm not trying to get at you, but does anyone at all have a link to a report on an exploding AA cell that still looked fine afterward? I just don't think it's credible.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 1, 2010)

TorchBoy said:


> I'm not trying to get at you, but does anyone at all have a link to a report on an exploding AA cell that still looked fine afterward? I just don't think it's credible.



SureAddicted's question was about single cell lights, not just AA lights. BTW, the A3 is an AAA light. 

SureAddicted's question was about single cell lights, not about cells that looked fine afterward, either. 

I believe single rechargeable AA or AAA cells can vent. Energizer says alkalines can vent. I suppose that any battery that needs to vent could explode if the vent fails to vent. I believe that single lithium cells can vent or explode. 

It's been stated the cell in the iTP A3 EOS light did not explode. Venting would seem to be the only possible way the battery could cause the problem in this particular incident.


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## SureAddicted (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks for the reply Apollo Cree. I guess taking extra care with batteries isn't such a bad idea.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 1, 2010)

SureAddicted said:


> Also the OP mentioned that the explosion sounded like a gunshot, that is a pretty big bang coming from a very small AAA powered light.



Like a 12 gauge or a 22? 

Like a pistol shot in the next room, or in a guy's pocket 3 feet away? 

Outside, or echoing inside a room with hard floors and walls? 

Your perception for an unexpected bang in a quiet room vs. outside in a noisy environment expecting a gunshot? 

Tales growing in the telling? 

Guns expend energy pushing the bullet down the barrel. An exploding flashlight doesn't get much distance to expend the energy as force times distance pushing the bullet down the barrel. It seems likely that more of the energy goes into sound for an exploding flashlight vs. a gun firing.


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## bspofford (Mar 1, 2010)

Two threads with the same problem active today.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/263907


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## SureAddicted (Mar 1, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> Tales growing in the telling? .



What exactly are you insinuating?


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 1, 2010)

SureAddicted said:


> What exactly are you insinuating?



Nothing evil or unusual. 

It's the same as any other unexpected and interesting event that depends on eyewitness information and/or word of mouth. The more times it gets repeated, the more exciting the details become. Just like the winning play in the big game, the bad storm last winter, how difficult it was to get to school when you were a kid, how drunk your buddy was last night, Mom's tales of things you did as a kid, etc.


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## Rexlion (Mar 2, 2010)

I emailed my friend and asked him to describe things in more detail. Here is his reply:

_The glass lens, and the LED bulb, were imbedded in my hand, and also turned almost to powder, and was scattered on the table, and across my suit jacket. It blew the end cap off also, although it did not disfigure it, or the any other metal parts. It truly sounded like a gunshot. As for the battery, the only thing I remember about it was that it was not a brand I recognized, and I noticed that it almost looked new. There was no swelling, or corrosion on it. None of us can remember the brand though. Sorry._

He says this was the original battery that was in it when I gave it to him. I can't recall for certain (the light was given before Christmas) if the light comes with a battery or not. If not I really have no recollection what kind I might have put in there. We do sometimes have a few cheap offbrand Chinese cells around (my supplier sources all their electronic items in China and that's what comes in them), but I don't see any cheapo AAAs in my drawer now, only AAs. So I don't know. If I ever give another light, it will have Rayovacs or Evereadys in it, for sure. IF I ever give another light away...


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## Egsise (Mar 2, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> That's rude, childish, and unnecessary.
> 
> He explained the situation.


That is not an excuse, c'mon what kind of person throws away a flashlight that exploded?
25$ flashlight is cheap, or is it?
Legal actions anyone, [email protected]#!! yeah!
Someone may think that when there's no proof this is just trollish thread?


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## LeifUK (Mar 2, 2010)

Egsise said:


> That is not an excuse, c'mon what kind of person throws away a flashlight that exploded?
> 25$ flashlight is cheap, or is it?
> Legal actions anyone, [email protected]#!! yeah!
> Someone may think that when there's no proof this is just trollish thread?



It's handbags at dawn then. 

I think someone who sees the item as nothing more than a torch might well throw it away. Don't forget that from the description earlier the entire business end was trashed, so it is no longer of any use. I think it is usually possible to detect a troll, and this sounds kosher.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 2, 2010)

Egsise said:


> That is not an excuse, c'mon what kind of person throws away a flashlight that exploded?
> 25$ flashlight is cheap, or is it?
> Legal actions anyone, [email protected]#!! yeah!
> Someone may think that when there's no proof this is just trollish thread?



Let's see. Someone who reports that a flashlight he gave to a friend had a hazardous failure, vs. someone who has no information at all about the incident who says nothing happened because there are no pictures.

Sure, let's ignore the report and call him a liar. No need to take any precautions ourselves because there are no pictures. Do you happen to work for Toyota? 

Shall we ignore the guy who claimed his Quark 2AA went POW? He didn't have pictures. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/263907

Shall we ignore the guy with the TK monster explosion? https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/262234

Yes, he has pictures of the damage, but he doesn't have video of the light exploding. Could the explosion have been something else and he just made up the flashlight story and faked the evidence to cover it up?

How about all the posts with beamshots? If you can't actually see the flashlight clearly in the beamshot, do we really know that the beam goes with the light it's claimed to go with? Do we know it hasn't been photoshopped? 

Re: Throwing the light away 

How many normal people who received such a tiny light as a gift would realize it cost $25? To a normal person, it might look like one of those $2 keychain lights. Do you tell everyone "this gift cost $xx" when you give them a gift? 

Maybe once it exploded, he was more concerned with getting rid of it before it does something else like leak chemicals all over the place. He wasn't at home when it happened. Was he expected to find some sort of safe container to put all the pieces in, or just stick the flashlight back in his pocket. Then take it back to his flashaholic friend for analysis? Especially if he was at a funeral thinking about other things. 

Re: Battery in the light

I don't think my A3 came with a battery in it. There's no apparent spot in the packaging for a battery, so the only place a battery could have been would have been inside the flashlight, and I'm pretty sure there was no battery inside mine when I got it. Manufacturers rarely put the battery inside a light because of the risk of leakage.


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## Monocrom (Mar 2, 2010)

My Maratac version of the iTP light came with no battery as well.


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## jk037 (Mar 2, 2010)

There was no battery supplied with my A3 Eos either, and the packaging doesn't appear to have a place to put a battery in any case.

IMHO, the most likely, reasonable and sensible explanation is that the battery was in some way faulty and up to this incident had been steadily producing gas/gases (which it could feasibly have done while having no external signs of damage); this has filled the flashlight body with some mixture of gases or other. As the OP states that the light would not turn on, it also seems likely that the battery had discharged itself which would be related to the gassing.

Assuming the above to be the case, the "explosion" may have been caused in one of two ways:
(a) The gases produced happened to be explosive (e.g. an explosive or combustible ratio of hydrogen and oxygen), and the last attempt to switch on the light produced enough of a spark to ignite the gases
(b) The light was sufficiently well-sealed to allow the gas pressure to increase to a very high level; screwing the head down to turn on the light then produced enough additional stress (either by compressing the already high-pressure gas, or just the mechanical stress on the head assembly) to break something, allowing the gas pressure to blow out rapidly.

Other than the battery itself or substances that the battery can emit, there really isn't anything in this light that could explode. Of course electronic devices will "pop" if subjected to sufficient overcurrent levels, but it's highly unlikely that any component could be driven to explode with any significant force by an alkaline AAA battery.

That's my take on it, anyway; I am a degree-qualified electrical engineer but I specialise in high-voltage electricity transmission so small DC electronics aren't my particular area of expertise! 

ETA: Looking at this thread and the other one about the inflating tailcap rubber, one could conclude that a "clicky" is safer than a "twisty" as the rubber provides a means for any built-up pressure to escape safely, whereas the weak point on a "twisty" is the part with glass in it


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## drifts1 (Mar 2, 2010)

I have seen the following phrase used in a many forums many times. Although not neccesarily to call someone a liar but moreso to urge them to post pictures. Dont know what the intentions were here so I will not comment or speculate.
"_Pictures, or it did not happen."_

My iTP A6/A3 EOS SS x-mas set came with batteries in the lights, i believe the A6 had Rayovac alkalines and the A3 had an energizer alkaline. I'm pretty sure the vendor added them. Other A3's purchased from a different vendor came with no batteries.


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## Rexlion (Mar 2, 2010)

Egsise said:


> That is not an excuse, c'mon what kind of person throws away a flashlight that exploded?
> 25$ flashlight is cheap, or is it?
> Legal actions anyone, [email protected]#!! yeah!
> Someone may think that when there's no proof this is just trollish thread?


 Maybe people do things differently around the Arctic Circle, for lack of good supply sources maybe, I don't know. But around here when people have something under $100 or so that stops working, they usually just throw it out.

Legal action? My friend was not seriously or permanently maimed, just had to pick some shards out of his hand (want me to photograph the marks on his palm for you? Will that make you feel validated?), so no point in spending big bucks on a lawyer to recover a few sawbucks at most. Being a gift it cost them nothing, and they would not have known where I bought it, so they had no thought of trying to get anything out of it like money or a new light. I know some people pinch every penny till Lincoln begs for mercy, but these friends aren't like that, I guess. Maybe that's part of why they're my friends.

Trollish thread? You're lucky you live so far away from me. Now turn around and keep walking north.


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## Rexlion (Mar 2, 2010)

drifts1 said:


> I have seen the following phrase used in a many forums many times. Although not neccesarily to call someone a liar but moreso to urge them to post pictures. Dont know what the intentions were here so I will not comment or speculate.
> "_Pictures, or it did not happen."_
> 
> My iTP A6/A3 EOS SS x-mas set came with batteries in the lights, i believe the A6 had Rayovac alkalines and the A3 had an energizer alkaline. I'm pretty sure the vendor added them. Other A3's purchased from a different vendor came with no batteries.


That's what I bought, the A6/A3 Christmas set. I kept the A6 and gave away the A3 (already had one). I remember now I got it from flashlightsngear.com so I'll write and ask if he was supplying batteries with those. My friend said today he remembers vertical stripes on the cell, wide at one end and narrowing toward the other end... he thinks it was green, yellow, and red. No way it was a major name brand cell.


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## TorchBoy (Mar 2, 2010)

Rexlion said:


> Now turn around and keep walking north.


Have you considered the impossibility of that? He could keep walking east or west, but not north or south. :kiss:


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## LeifUK (Mar 2, 2010)

TorchBoy said:


> Have you considered the impossibility of that? He could keep walking east or west, but not north or south. :kiss:



Humour does not always have to make perfect sense .. It made me laugh anyway.


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## Dan FO (Mar 2, 2010)

It does not really matter what happened because we don't have enough information to determine anything. The one thing that I never do is to use alkaline batteries in flashlights and would only use them in an emergency if nothing else was available. I have both the SS and Ti versions of the ITP A3 and use only enelopes or Energizer Lithiums.


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## Rexlion (Mar 2, 2010)

deleted


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## Egsise (Mar 3, 2010)

Rexlion said:


> You're lucky you live so far away from me.


Yeah I know, living in another continent sure is nice.

Sorry for my comments, but there's just too much speculation on what happened without any proof.
The eyewitness is a non flashaholic, which I think can't accurately describe these things.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 3, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Yeah I know, living in another continent sure is nice.
> 
> Sorry for my comments, but there's just too much speculation on what happened without any proof.
> The eyewitness is a non flashaholic, which I think can't accurately describe these things.



Obviously a non flashaholic wouldn't correctly recognize concepts like "bang", broken glass, objects imbedded in his hand, gunshot sounds, swelling, corrosion, etc.


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## Egsise (Mar 3, 2010)

Yes you are right, he would recognice them in a non-flashaholic way which is not accurate because he does not know what to look for.


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## JulianP (Mar 3, 2010)

I worked out the riddle (ie more speculation). Your friend went to a funeral. He had to travel a long way from home. Before he left, he checked his flashlight, before packing it into his bag. He might even have changed the battery, and tightened the tailcap. Your friend lives at sea level. The funeral was at a higher altitude. The air trapped inside the flashlight expanded as he was no longer at sea level. He turned the flashlight on, and the heat caused further air expansion. The glass shattered and blew out. As the flashlight exploded, the pill moved forward and broke contact with the battery terminal. Your friend dropped the flashlight to the ground, causing more damage. He picked it up and tried unsuccesfully to turn it on. Still anxious and shakey, surprise turned to anger. He threw it out in a fit of rage. Maybe.


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## Linger (Mar 3, 2010)

Just fyi for anyone still reading and unfamiliar with the light: it is a twisty with a single separation where the tail is attached to the one-piece body and head. Within the tail is a decent sized spring and any AAA, 10440 fit with plenty room to spare (impossible to over tighten cap down on the cell).
It does have a boost circuit but a simple one, no capacitators and no pre-flash in any modes.
I run mine with an AW 10440 cell, for the low mode and sometimes medium, but fantastically enough for any CPF'er, on 'high' it pull over 1000ma at the tail (with the li-co cell!!!)


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## McAllan (Mar 3, 2010)

Even if you closed it at sea level and took it to outer space (vacuum) the pressure difference wouldn't be enough to blow out the glass or overcome the holding force of the threads. It's only a pressure difference of 1 bar. You would hear a fizz with such a difference (if it's not a vacuum where opening) but nothing violent.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 3, 2010)

JulianP said:


> I worked out the riddle (ie more speculation). Your friend went to a funeral. He had to travel a long way from home. Before he left, he checked his flashlight, before packing it into his bag. He might even have changed the battery, and tightened the tailcap. Your friend lives at sea level. The funeral was at a higher altitude. The air trapped inside the flashlight expanded as he was no longer at sea level. He turned the flashlight on, and the heat caused further air expansion. The glass shattered and blew out. As the flashlight exploded, the pill moved forward and broke contact with the battery terminal. Your friend dropped the flashlight to the ground, causing more damage. He picked it up and tried unsuccesfully to turn it on. Still anxious and shakey, surprise turned to anger. He threw it out in a fit of rage. Maybe.



15 PSIA at sea level. Heat the case of the flashlight to 100 degrees C, and you only get 20 PSIA inside the flashlight. Go to 10,000 feet and you only get 10 PSIG. 

1/2 inch diameter of the head. 7 pounds of pressure. 

Probably less because 10,000 feet and 100 C is probably way too high. 

10 PSI of the small amount of air in an A3 or 7 pounds of force is not going to make much of a bang. 




Egsise said:


> Yes you are right, he would recognice them in a non-flashaholic way which is not accurate because he does not know what to look for.



Maybe you wouldn't have recognized broken glass, the sound of a gunshot, shrapnel embedded in the skin and the other things he described before you joined this web site, but I think most of the rest of the human race would have no problem doing so.


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## JulianP (Mar 3, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> 15 PSIA at sea level. Heat the case of the flashlight to 100 degrees C, and you only get 20 PSIA inside the flashlight. Go to 10,000 feet and you only get 10 PSIG.
> 
> 1/2 inch diameter of the head. 7 pounds of pressure.
> 
> ...



Ok, you guys know your physics too well. I retract my hypothesis...maybe it was Mossad.


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## LightChaser (Mar 3, 2010)

There's no way to really determine what happened to the light without going through the light and the batteries, but based on what happened recently with my Fenix E01, I figure it's probably the battery. 

A few days ago, I noticed that it was a bit hard to twist the head on my E01. There was no scratching or grinding - it just felt like the head was pretty tight. I decided to open it up, and while I was opening it to check the threads, I heard a pop - I thought nothing of it at the time though. Everything looked fine, so I tried twisting it back on, and everything was back to normal - or so I thought. 

The next day, it was tight again. I opened it up again, and heard the same pop. The cause of the problem became clear - the difficulty twisting the light and the popping told me that pressure was building up inside the light. 

I checked the battery (an alkaline that came with the light), saw nothing wrong with it, then checked the battery tube for signs of leakage, and saw nothing. I then decided to put the battery back in, wait a few hours, then try twisting the head again to confirm if the cell was really causing pressure to build up in the light. 

A few hours passed, but I couldn't replicate the problem. I figured I'd play it safe and replaced the cell with a lithium primary that I'd been waiting to put in the light. I left the suspicious alkaline on my desk, then left. 

When I came back after a few hours, the alkaline had leaked, and I was thankful I played it safe. I still can't quite say for certain that the alkaline was venting inside the E01, but that's the only explanation I can think of for the pressure build up in the light. 

I figure the same thing could very well have happened with the light mentioned by the OP, except the owner never opened the light, and inadvertently allowed the pressure to build up in the light until it finally exploded. We can't know for sure, but based on my experience, I think it's possible.


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## Egsise (Mar 3, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> Maybe you wouldn't have recognized broken glass, the sound of a gunshot, shrapnel embedded in the skin and the other things he described before you joined this web site, but I think most of the rest of the human race would have no problem doing so.


This is like a debate on what does a weather balloon look like.
It could be even a UFO to normal people, a specialist takes a glance and recognices it immediately as weather balloon.

Gunshot next to his ear and no any damage to his hearing? LOL!


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## march.brown (Mar 3, 2010)

In a normal room, even a kiddies balloon bursting sounds loud ... Even with moderate background noise it can make people jump ... A build-up of pressure that was high enough to blow out the glass lens of a sealed torch would certainly sound like a gunshot.

Since there was no flash observed, it really can only be the battery venting that caused the explosion ... The battery was the only item capable of producing gasses.

Reading this and other threads, it seems that there have been quite a few cases of batteries venting ... It does seem to be the cheaper primaries though that are the culprits ... I wonder how many torches would have exploded if they had been manufactured with better "water-resistance" ... Even a plastic bodied torch could cause serious personal damage if it exploded ... Maybe the plastic ones would just split instead of shattering.

It would seem that with this method of On/Off switching, the torch is much easier to make sealed/waterproof than with the tail-clicky ... It also becomes a pressure vessel where the weak-point is the lens ... With this in mind, perhaps we should consider drilling a couple of 2mm holes in the body and waterproofing these with something like candle wax ... I would expect a 2mm plug of candlewax to pop out before the pressure built up enough to explode the glass lens.

It would be interesting if someone was to drill and tap a hole in the torch body and use a pressure hose and monitor the "explosion" on video ... We would then know what pressure it would take to cause the lens to shatter and the original exploding torch owner could see if it looked and sounded the same.

_"The *glass lens*, and the *LED bulb*, were imbedded in my hand, and also turned almost to powder, and was scattered on the table, and across my suit jacket. It blew the* end cap* off also, although it *did not disfigure it*, or the any other metal parts. It truly sounded like a gunshot. As for the battery, the only thing I remember about it was that it was not a brand I recognized, and I noticed that it almost looked new. There was no swelling, or corrosion on it. None of us can remember the brand though. Sorry."_

From the above statement, the fact that the LED was also embedded in his hand does worry me a bit ... Did it completely detatch itself from the soldered fixing ? ... What happened to the reflector ? ... He also said that the end cap was blown off without being disfigured ... Were the threads not stripped in the process ?

We need Hercules Poirot or someone like him to solve this ... Difficult without any evidence though !
.


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## Rexlion (Mar 3, 2010)

As for elevation gain, it was about 1300 feet... Tulsa OK to Hays KS. I never thought of that possibility before. But a pretty small elevation change, not enough to cause such damage.

My friend is a veteran of the Gulf war. He doesn't seem like the panicky type. (Although he did get some Serin gas, which they say still affects him some.)


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## waddup (Mar 3, 2010)

this is the only serious problem ive ever heard of with the itp/martac. 1000s and 1000s sold,

only 1 serious problem.

much better track record then almost any product ever.

im not worried about the itp on my girls keychain

odds are waaaaaaaaaay to good nothing will go wrong


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## sabre7 (Mar 3, 2010)

Gunshot sounds, shrapnel, glass embedded in the hand, oh my! Three more pages of speculation might grow into "flaming shards of jagged metal hurtled through the air, the crowd swooned and ran for cover as the massive fireball grew into a mushroom cloud, the pall of death and destruction lingered for hours as the search for maimed and lifeless bodies amid the rubble and destruction..." 

Instead of "an audible pop was heard, the glass of the flashlight broke, the owner cut his hand on a piece of broken glass."


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## Flying Turtle (Mar 3, 2010)

"It blew the end cap off"

I didn't realize this light even had an end cap. Thought it was pretty much like a Maratac AAA, head and battery tube. Maybe it was a different light altogether.

Geoff


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## Monocrom (Mar 3, 2010)

Perhaps he meant the half of the body that the clip is attached to.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 3, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Gunshot next to his ear and no any damage to his hearing? LOL!



Nothing says it was next to his ear. "Fortunately he lowered it away from his face as he gave it another twist, and was starting to bring it up again."

Plenty of cops, soldiers, and hunters shoot pistols or even rifles and shotguns with multiple rounds with no hearing protection with no obvious hearing damage. Especially things like 22's, which do qualify as "gunshots." 

Back in the 60's, nobody wore hearing protection while hunting. They rarely wore hearing protection while practice shooting. Almost nobody noticed their hearing being damaged until years later, if at all. 

Do you really think that because someone doesn't have obvious hearing damage, that proves that they weren't right next to someone firing a gun? 

Plus "sounds like a gunshot" doesn't mean the volume was as loud as a real gunshot.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 3, 2010)

Flying Turtle said:


> "It blew the end cap off"
> 
> I didn't realize this light even had an end cap. Thought it was pretty much like a Maratac AAA, head and battery tube. Maybe it was a different light altogether.
> 
> Geoff



Perhaps he meant the "cap" on the front end, what we'd call the head. Or the lens, reflector, and electronics. The iTP A3 case is two pieces, the head and the battery tube. The battery tube is a one piece cup about the length of an AAA battery. The head is a one-piece tube.


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## TorchBoy (Mar 3, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> Maybe you wouldn't have recognized broken glass, the sound of a gunshot, shrapnel embedded in the skin and the other things he described before you joined this web site, but I think most of the rest of the human race would have no problem doing so.


That strikes me as being disingenuous. Egsise actually said he *would* recognise them, but in a different way to how a flashaholic would. I believe his point was that the person might not realise the full significance of what happened.

... And after reading his next post (73) it looks like I'm right in thinking that's what he was saying. It sounds like the poor guy it happened to would recognise the crack of a gunshot though.

Thanks for doing some pressure calculations. I don't see how you got the 7 pounds pressure figure though. A half inch diameter disk will have an area of about 0.2 square inches.

LightChaser, thanks to you too for posting your experience. It sounds like a well sealed light.


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## Rexlion (Mar 3, 2010)

Yeah, I'm not really sure now if I understood correctly what he was saying. Maybe he wasn't referring to the tail end after all, or maybe the two halves separated at the threads. I'll have to ask him next time I get a chance. Whatever happened, it must've had considerable force to propel and embed glass into his hand.


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## Apollo Cree (Mar 3, 2010)

TorchBoy said:


> Thanks for doing some pressure calculations. I don't see how you got the 7 pounds pressure figure though. A half inch diameter disk will have an area of about 0.2 square inches.



Simple. I did a spreadsheet and used the formula 

Area=Pi*R



If you want to slavishly follow the crowd and use Area=Pi*R*R, then it's 2 lbs.


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## TorchBoy (Mar 3, 2010)

LOL. The new result makes it clearer that the explosion wouldn't have been caused by natural pressure changes from altitude or heat.


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## kaichu dento (Mar 4, 2010)

Rexlion said:


> I emailed my friend and asked him to describe things in more detail. Here is his reply:
> 
> _The glass lens, and the LED bulb, were imbedded in my hand, and also turned almost to powder, and was scattered on the table, and across my suit jacket. It blew the end cap off also, although it did not disfigure it, or the any other metal parts. It truly sounded like a gunshot. As for the battery, the only thing I remember about it was that it was not a brand I recognized, and I noticed that it almost looked new. There was no swelling, or corrosion on it. None of us can remember the brand though. Sorry._
> 
> He says this was the original battery that was in it when I gave it to him. I can't recall for certain (the light was given before Christmas) if the light comes with a battery or not. If not I really have no recollection what kind I might have put in there. We do sometimes have a few cheap offbrand Chinese cells around (my supplier sources all their electronic items in China and that's what comes in them), but I don't see any cheapo AAAs in my drawer now, only AAs. So I don't know. If I ever give another light, it will have Rayovacs or Evereadys in it, for sure. IF I ever give another light away...


I've received lights from other members here who without thinking about it had included rechargeables and unlikely as it seems, do you think there's any possibility you did the same? 
Whether the answer is yes or no I'm still pretty awed by the whole story and like others, wish that he had saved it to show you what happened. 


Egsise said:


> That is not an excuse, c'mon what kind of person throws away a flashlight that exploded?
> 
> Someone may think that when there's no proof this is just trollish thread?


Anyone not a member of this forum would most likely hurl the thing as far as they could!

Not sure why you suggested this thread as being trollish and you might want to be more cautious with that kind of insinuation. 


TorchBoy said:


> Have you considered the impossibility of that? He could keep walking east or west, but not north or south. :kiss:


Lots of Alaska both north and south of the Arctic Circle. Just think about it, you've still hundreds of miles to Prudhoe after the Arctic Circle pullout!


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## Egsise (Mar 4, 2010)

kaichu dento said:


> Anyone not a member of this forum would most likely hurl the thing as far as they could!
> 
> Not sure why you suggested this thread as being trollish and you might want to be more cautious with that kind of insinuation.


In the land of the lawsuits and where battery companies replace broken devices, a battery operated flashlight explodes and the user just throws it away?
It just doesn't sound right.

At least the user should've thinked what if the next flashlight explode happens when someones kid is holding a flashlight in his/her hand?

*Look ma, no fingers!*

This kind of things need to be reported more accurately to prevent worse accidents.

(i don't live in alaska btw)


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## kaichu dento (Mar 4, 2010)

Egsise, just because the whole doesn't share your cynical views does not even come close to justifying your insinuations that the OP is a troll, and I think it more likely that you are closer to fitting that suit.


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## LeifUK (Mar 4, 2010)

Come on you lot, you are squabbling for no real reason. 

From the description, there must have been significant force, and to blow out the LED means that the pressure/shock wave originated inside the battery canister. So it was not a stressed lamp glass. A pressure build up from a leaking battery sounds likely, and maybe little or no ignition. The absence of obvious damage to the battery suggests a slow leak, rather than an explosive venting. I keep a torch in my trouser pocket. :huh: Looking on the bright side, they do say that castration prevents hair loss ...


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## McAllan (Mar 4, 2010)

Egsise said:


> In the land of the lawsuits and where battery companies replace broken devices, a battery operated flashlight explodes and the user just throws it away?



And then reload to get another "shot"?


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## Egsise (Mar 5, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Someone may think that when there's no proof this is just trollish thread?





kaichu dento said:


> Egsise, just because the whole doesn't share your cynical views does not even come close to justifying your insinuations that the OP is a troll, and I think it more likely that you are closer to fitting that suit.



*I did not say that the OP is a troll.*
But you called me a troll, does that make you a troll?

Without any better proof this thread is full of speculation on what happened and we are not any wiser than before so why we even continue?


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## kaichu dento (Mar 5, 2010)

Egsise said:


> *I did not say that the OP is a troll.*
> But you called me a troll, does that make you a troll?
> 
> Without any better proof this thread is full of speculation on what happened and we are not any wiser than before so why we even continue?


The OP is the one who started what you called a trollish thread. 

You now calling me a troll is pretty much akin to the pot calling the kettle black and looks like you actually are a troll, considering your behaviour of making ridiculous statements intended to inflame others and the trashing of a thread.

As you stated, no one is getting any wiser, so actually, why continue? Please drop it and let the conversation go back to the iTP A3.


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## sabre7 (Mar 5, 2010)

Unfortunately, this thread has degenerated into name calling over a subject that is hearsay from a 3rd party to begin with. Further, the vast majority of responses have nothing to do with the malfunction of the iTP A3 itself, but discussions about battery leaks and venting which might be better addressed in the battery section.


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## glenda17 (Mar 5, 2010)

As a chemical engineer I can tell you it doesn't take much battery acid to react with aluminum to create enough hydrogen to make an explosion with spark.

I never use alkalines in my flashlights, they are just mass produced junk. I swear at least 1 out of 100 leak. After I found AW Lithiums I never used another alkaline, they are a fantastic safe battery.


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## Egsise (Mar 5, 2010)

kaichu dento said:


> The OP is the one who started what you called a trollish thread.


I did not say that this is a trollish thread, I said that *someone* might think that way.
I asked if you are a troll, you answer by twisting my words(again) and calling me a troll. :thinking:

Wise words sabre7.


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## kaichu dento (Mar 5, 2010)

Egsise said:


> Pictures, or it did not happen.





Egsise said:


> That is not an excuse, c'mon what kind of person throws away a flashlight that exploded?
> 25$ flashlight is cheap, or is it?
> Legal actions anyone, [email protected]#!! yeah!
> Someone may think that when there's no proof this is just trollish thread?





Egsise said:


> Yeah I know, living in another continent sure is nice.
> 
> Sorry for my comments, but there's just too much speculation on what happened without any proof.
> The eyewitness is a non flashaholic, which I think can't accurately describe these things.





Egsise said:


> Yes you are right, he would recognice them in a non-flashaholic way which is not accurate because he does not know what to look for.





Egsise said:


> This is like a debate on what does a weather balloon look like.
> It could be even a UFO to normal people, a specialist takes a glance and recognices it immediately as weather balloon.
> 
> Gunshot next to his ear and no any damage to his hearing? LOL!





Egsise said:


> In the land of the lawsuits and where battery companies replace broken devices, a battery operated flashlight explodes and the user just throws it away?
> It just doesn't sound right.
> 
> At least the user should've thinked what if the next flashlight explode happens when someones kid is holding a flashlight in his/her hand?
> ...





Egsise said:


> I did not say that this is a trollish thread, I said that *someone* might think that way.
> I asked if you are a troll, you answer by twisting my words(again) and calling me a troll. :thinking:
> 
> Wise words sabre7.


Every post so far from you has had something antagonistic in it keeping the dialogue from being able to stay on course, even after Rexlion posted this one. 


Rexlion said:


> Maybe people do things differently around the Arctic Circle, for lack of good supply sources maybe, I don't know. But around here when people have something under $100 or so that stops working, they usually just throw it out.
> 
> Legal action? My friend was not seriously or permanently maimed, just had to pick some shards out of his hand (want me to photograph the marks on his palm for you? Will that make you feel validated?), so no point in spending big bucks on a lawyer to recover a few sawbucks at most. Being a gift it cost them nothing, and they would not have known where I bought it, so they had no thought of trying to get anything out of it like money or a new light. I know some people pinch every penny till Lincoln begs for mercy, but these friends aren't like that, I guess. Maybe that's part of why they're my friends.
> 
> Trollish thread? You're lucky you live so far away from me. Now turn around and keep walking north.


Not apparent how many others agree but it's obvious that at very least, both the OP and I agree that you've been posting in a disparaging manner.


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## Monocrom (Mar 5, 2010)

glenda17 said:


> As a chemical engineer I can tell you it doesn't take much battery acid to react with aluminum to create enough hydrogen to make an explosion with spark.


 
The OP mentioned that this particular iTP model was stainless steel.

Would the reaction have been similar with SS as with aluminum?


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## Robocop (Mar 5, 2010)

Some people are attempting to keep this thread on topic and to them thank you for the efforts....to those who are simply trying to bait or stir up emotions consider yourself warned.

Regardless of the information the thread was posted properly for the members to discuss. If you do not agree then do not participate however adding your comments with no more than baiting words will not be tolerated.

Looking back on it Sabre7 it was you who added the first post of what I believe to be off topic and the of course Egsise you had to start the rude demand for photos.....then the bickering went from there.

Regardless of your intentions you can easily see now how off topic or simply out of line posts can degrade a thread to where it is no longer fun for the 99 percent of members who actually appreciate a discussion.

Simply knock it off and leave this thread alone if you have nothing positive to say. If you wish to reply to me feel free to do so by PM however further negative replies to myself or others will result in some time off for any involved.....last and only warning gentlemen.

Thank you again to those among us who are trying to keep this on topic and actually working together to discuss this like adults.


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## march.brown (Mar 5, 2010)

Robocop said:


> Some people are attempting to keep this thread on topic and to them thank you for the efforts....to those who are simply trying to bait or stir up emotions consider yourself warned.
> 
> Regardless of the information the thread was posted properly for the members to discuss. If you do not agree then do not participate however adding your comments with no more than baiting words will not be tolerated.
> 
> ...


 
Well said, Robocop.

It's about time that someone stepped in ... I am interested in this thread because I have sent for the iTPA2 and may well go for an A3 too ...

Many Thanks for stepping in.
.


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## flasherByNight (Mar 15, 2010)

gosh I wish this thread had a more satisfying conclusion :ironic:


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## Monocrom (Mar 15, 2010)

flasherByNight said:


> gosh I wish this thread had a more satisfying conclusion :ironic:


 
Agreed.

I'm inclined to think it is indeed an issue with the battery. Probably due to the use of a cheap one. I EDC three lights. While my primary changes quite a bit, my secondary and keychain lights stay the same. Photon Freedom on the keys. Maratac AAA black aluminum model in the back-pocket. Got a Duraloop rechargeable in it. I'll let you guys know if it blows up. Seriously doubt it though.


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## Felco (Mar 21, 2010)

Haven't got time to read this whole thread, but need to post a warning here. My stainless steel iTP A3 Eos nearly exploded with an alkaline (Duracell) battery.

First symptom is extreme tightness, like the threads are cross threaded. Happened twice, the second time so much pressure I could not open by hand. Next symptom was a puff of escaping (hydrogen?) gas after I used two pliers to turn the headpiece off the body.

No problem with the flashlight, put in new rechargeables and works fine, and no repeat of this has occurred.

WARNING: DO NOT USE ALKALINE BATTERIES! 



Mods need to post some sort of sticky warning thread...
bye


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## tsmccull (Mar 21, 2010)

Thanks for the warning Felco. I had an alkaline in mine, but have switched to L92 lithium Ultimates. The light seems brighter now as well (I think the alkaline was dropping off in voltage faster than the lithium does).


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## AlgaeEater (Jul 13, 2010)

Thread necromancy! Rise from your grave!

In any case this happened to me a couple of times already but I thought nothing of it. Now that I'm looking into buying another one of these A3 EoS lights, I came across this thread.

YES, this does happen with this light. I have made it regular habit of "venting" the battery compartment of the light every week. Takes a few seconds, just twit the top off and then put it back on. Other than that, the light has been solid and works wonders. (Hence why I want to buy more)

I hope people don't get too afraid of the light and alkaline, since I use only alkaline with this light and it's been fine for me.


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## Woods Walker (Jul 13, 2010)

I only use NiMH or LSD NiMH in my A3. Guessing it will run better on high and heck saves me some cash to boot.


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## ps56k (Jan 3, 2012)

We have the ITP A3 EOS Upgraded lights on each of the keyrings in the house. Recently our son said his light didn't work when he and mom were out looking for something. I opened it up, and the Duracell had leaked just a tiny bit. Cleaned it out and popped in a new battery, and all is well.

Since these lights for us are used only as needed, and when needed - does it make sense to swap out the Duracell Alka for the Energizer Lithiums ? 
Not so much for run time, or even the shelf life, but rather better life without leaking ?

Are the Energizer Lithiums OK for use in the A3 EOS ?


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## Streamer (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes, energizer lithiums are OK for the A3 EOS. I have them in mine. Peace of mind. You'll be glad you switched...


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## Shooter21 (Jan 4, 2012)

glenda17 said:


> As a chemical engineer I can tell you it doesn't take much battery acid to react with aluminum to create enough hydrogen to make an explosion with spark.
> 
> I never use alkalines in my flashlights, they are just mass produced junk. I swear at least 1 out of 100 leak. After I found AW Lithiums I never used another alkaline, they are a fantastic safe battery.


i would say an alkaline is safer since usually it will leak if it's defective but a lithium battery can turn the torch into a pipe bomb.


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## Monocrom (Jan 4, 2012)

Shooter21 said:


> i would say an alkaline is safer since usually it will leak if it's defective but a lithium battery can turn the torch into a pipe bomb.



You do realize that the chemistry in a lithium AAA battery is a bit different from that of a CR123, right?

Main issue with flashlights taking lithium batteries that have vented with flame is usually found in multi-cell lights. A quality, single, lithium AAA battery in a well-made single-cell light is about as dangeous as a sleeping puppy.


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## Shooter21 (Jan 4, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> You do realize that the chemistry in a lithium AAA battery is a bit different from that of a CR123, right?
> 
> Main issue with flashlights taking lithium batteries that have vented with flame is usually found in multi-cell lights. A quality, single, lithium AAA battery in a well-made single-cell light is about as dangeous as a sleeping puppy.


so there's never been a case where a high quality single cell AA/AAA lithium battery exploded?


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## roadkill1109 (Jan 4, 2012)

wow, scary story! i carry an iTP A3 Upgraded in my pocket, and its rocking a 10440 cell... hmmm... time to just leave it in my bag.

After hearing this story, nothing still beats the Quark AA w/ 14500! Best EDC ever! haha  (well, until my V10A XML arrives) hehehe...


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## roadkill1109 (Jan 4, 2012)

ps56k said:


> We have the ITP A3 EOS Upgraded lights on each of the keyrings in the house. Recently our son said his light didn't work when he and mom were out looking for something. I opened it up, and the Duracell had leaked just a tiny bit. Cleaned it out and popped in a new battery, and all is well.
> 
> Since these lights for us are used only as needed, and when needed - does it make sense to swap out the Duracell Alka for the Energizer Lithiums ?
> Not so much for run time, or even the shelf life, but rather better life without leaking ?
> ...



You could use a 10440 cell, they have quite the long shelf life. i haven't recharged mine in like 5 months now, and it is just used from time to time only. you'd probably use them less, for emergencies as what you said. The trick is if it is needed, turn it on to med power and its runtime will be much much longer than the HI on any regular alkaline battery. Busting it on max will give 200+ lumens, but the light gets hot in under a minute, good for short bursts of powerful light.


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## roadkill1109 (Jan 4, 2012)

Forgot to mention, how about using Sanyo Eneloops? These are great batteries with extra long shelf life. At least if you dont want to use a 10440, and find Energizer Lithiums too expensive, the Sanyo Eneloop will fit you nicely! Plus you save the environment by using renewable power!


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## roadkill1109 (Jan 4, 2012)

Oh yeah, how about using Sanyo Eneloops? They do have long shelf life and they will never leak. For those not wanting to use 10440, you could use eneloops and save the environment!


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## purelite (Jan 4, 2012)

How come this is being attributed to the ITP? couldnt this happen in any light?


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## march.brown (Jan 4, 2012)

roadkill1109 said:


> Oh yeah, how about using Sanyo Eneloops? They do have long shelf life and they will never leak. For those not wanting to use 10440, you could use eneloops and save the environment!


I use Eneloops on all my ITP A3's and A2's ... I can't remember when I last charged them ... Must do it soon ... It isn't that important 'cos I carry two A3's and an A2 every day ... If one dies there are two others left ... All three won't die at the same time.
.


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## cobracon (Jan 4, 2012)

i agree with the theory of gas being generated from somewhere and igniting. i'd be interested what brand of bat was in it at the time.


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## pjandyho (Jan 4, 2012)

Shooter21 said:


> so there's never been a case where a high quality single cell AA/AAA lithium battery exploded?


Have you heard of one? I know I haven't. And even if there is remotely even one, I can't imagine how one can classify that as highly dangerous considering millions are being made.


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## Monocrom (Jan 4, 2012)

pjandyho said:


> Have you heard of one? I know I haven't. And even if there is remotely even one, I can't imagine how one can classify that as highly dangerous considering millions are being made.



+1

All the time I've been on CPF, I've never taken a break. Never heard of an incident of a single AA or AAA lithium violently venting with flame.


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## Frank_Zuccarini (Dec 4, 2012)

For what it's worth, I've just lost my *SECOND* A3 EOS flashlight to a leaking Duracell AAA battery. No explosion, or anything so dramatic. Simply stopped working, so I opened it up and found a leaking battery with just a bit of corrosion on the inside of the flashlight, bridging the spring and wall. No release of pressure upon opening it, and the head was not noticable stiffer to unscrew.

I love this light, keeping it on my keychain at all times. Mass produced alkaline batteries are simply prone to leakage. End of story.

I will soon be carrying my backup A3, and I am seriously considering investing in a different battery chemistry.

Frank


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## Badbeams3 (Dec 4, 2012)

I would also think the O ring a bit flawed...perhaps to snug....to fat. I would have expected pressure build up to seep past the O-ring before reaching...so high as to blow the glass out. Wonder if the wrong lubrication might have been used and caused the O-ring to swell?


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## awyeah (Dec 5, 2012)

I recommend eneloops. But from what I understand, energizer ultimate lithiums also don't leak.


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## NCF8710 (Dec 5, 2012)

Frank_Zuccarini said:


> For what it's worth, I've just lost my *SECOND* A3 EOS flashlight to a leaking Duracell AAA battery. No explosion, or anything so dramatic. Simply stopped working, so I opened it up and found a leaking battery with just a bit of corrosion on the inside of the flashlight, bridging the spring and wall. No release of pressure upon opening it, and the head was not noticable stiffer to unscrew.
> 
> I love this light, keeping it on my keychain at all times. Mass produced alkaline batteries are simply prone to leakage. End of story.
> 
> ...



I use an Energizer Ultimate lithium cell in mine as it gets infrequent use. A rechargeable cell such as a Duraloop or Eneloop is an economical choice for lights getting frequent use. I will never use an alkaline cell in any good device. A leaking alkaline cell destroyed my Maglight Solitaire. Lesson learned!


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## Frank_Zuccarini (Dec 5, 2012)

I was able to get the flashlight to work again by removing the rear (negative contact) spring and manually scraping out all the corrosion accumulation.

I also picked up a few Energizer Ultimate lithium cells (thanks for the suggestion) and that is what I'm now using in this and any of my AAA cell flashlights.

Frank


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## Oztorchfreak (Dec 6, 2012)

*Hi Guys.


*I have bought around twenty (20) of these ITP A3 EOS lights in Aluminium.

I have never had a single problem with any of the ones that I have given away for XMAS presents and other reasons.

I still have 6 more in my possession and all have worked flawlessly using standard Alkaline batteries.

The few that have every gone haywire must be few and very far between as this was one of the "Best Selling AAA" lights of all time that allowed nearly anybody to buy it at such an affordable price.

*The other main competitor to the ITP at the time was the Maratec AAA light.
*
There were those that liked one or the other and there was always plenty of healthy debate going on here on CPF about the pros and cons of each light.

CPF Link to a Review on both lights together is below.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ws-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS-DETAILED-PICS-amp-more!

ITP worked for me and still do!!

I still have.

One on a lanyard around my neck every day.

One in the middle compartment in my car.

One on my key ring.

One in my bedroom drawer.

My wife has one on her key ring.

I have still got three brand new ITP A3 EOS lights in storage as I liked them so much.

Lucky for me I kept them because ITP were taken over by Olight and Olight brought out their own version that looked so similar to the original ITP A3 EOS it wasn't funny.

There was also a war going on about the modes on the ITP.

It came out originally with three modes that always defaulted to Medium on switch-on.

Then ITP changed midstream in the life cycle of the TINY light and made HIGH the default mode at switch-on.

To each their own I suppose!!

What is needed nowadays on every light is a way to set the order of the modes to keep everybody happy.

No, what I said was flawed.

*YOU CANNOT KEEP EVERYBODY HAPPY!!!*


*
CHEERS*


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## kreisl (Dec 6, 2012)

Oztorchfreak said:


> as this was one of the "Best Selling AAA" lights of all time that allowed nearly anybody to buy it at such an affordable price.



Yes, this is probably true .. among all brand name 1xAAA power led keychain flashlights the ITP A3 has to be the best-selling and most popular product of all time. The A3 got discontinued a while back, the Olight i3 replaced it and is widely available thru ebay or amazon or many retailers. However, if you google the term < _Top2 Recommended Flashlights 2012_ >, a more recent survey suggests that nowadays other 1xAAA flashlights are the buyer's current favorites. It's not the A3/i3 any longer, the A3/i3 got dethroned: These days more people buy stuffz like the Thrunite Ti or Tank E09.

Maybe the total number of A3/i3 owners in the world is still much higher than the sum of Ti plus E09 owners .. but that's a relict of the past.

I have A3, LD01, Ti, E01, E09, E10, E11, MiX6, Worm .. and for the money i rather buy 2x Ti's or 2x E09's in place of 1x i3. The E09 could be easily maintained, disassembled, cleaned, swapped parts, repaired, fixed, .. the i3 couldnt. I like my A3 .. and dont use it anymore 

my 2 cents. no discussion intended.


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## Oztorchfreak (Dec 6, 2012)

kreisl said:


> Yes, this is probably true .. among all brand name 1xAAA power led keychain flashlights the ITP A3 has to be the best-selling and most popular product of all time. The A3 got discontinued a while back, the Olight i3 replaced it and is widely available thru ebay or amazon or many retailers. However, if you google the term < _Top2 Recommended Flashlights 2012_ >, a more recent survey suggests that nowadays other 1xAAA flashlights are the buyer's current favorites. It's not the A3/i3 any longer, the A3/i3 got dethroned: These days more people buy stuffz like the Thrunite Ti or Tank E09.
> 
> Maybe the total number of A3/i3 owners in the world is still much higher than the sum of Ti plus E09 owners .. but that's a relict of the past.
> 
> ...




*You are certainly right that the ITP A3 EOS and the Maratec AAA are relics of an era that has passed us by.*

I still use them but, funny enough even though I have a lot more AAA pocket lights in my collection.
*
The ITP A3 EOS hangs on a lanyard around my neck every day of the year.*

It has never let me down at all!

The ones that stick out the most in my *AAA* + *AAAA *collection are below.


*Klarus limited edition Mi X5 Au (Gold) 1 x AAAA.*

*Klarus limited edition Mi X6 Au (Gold) 1 x AAA.

Fenix LD01.

Fenix LD10.

Thrunite Ti.

Thrunite T10.

Olight I3.

ITP A3 Standard Edition (High mode only).

ITP A3 EOS Advanced Edition (3 modes).

ITP A3 Titanium.
**
Worm SS.

Worm Aluminium.


*Plus others I cannot think of at the moment, so they must not be worth worrying about I suppose.

I have ran my *ITP A3 EOS* on a *10440 *but only for a *very limited* time as it* heats up very quick*!

If I run a *10440* in it I usually use the *Medium mode* and only use the* High mode as a "TURBO" mode* for limited use.

It is good for a *"WOW" factor.


Flashlights are so much fun as they come up with new ones like bullets from a Machine Gun nowadays!




CHEERS
*
*







*


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## ragweed (Dec 6, 2012)

I think the OP Rexlion was Trolling or not giving us the straight facts on the battery used. No one here ever reported such an incident using a normal cell.


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## ThirstyTurtle (Dec 6, 2012)

This really freaks me out!

I realize this is a super rare accident but I regularly put my single AAA lights in my mouth when I'm doing something that requires two hands. I use Eneloops in them which sounds like it might be a little less likely to happen but either way, it only takes one battery explosion in my mouth to hurt me bad. 

I'm wondering if the battery could somehow have been shorted out and overheated that way? Could he have had the battery in backwards and messed something up?


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## ragweed (Dec 6, 2012)

Those eneloops are kick butt IMO. Also American made Lithium's! I really think there was something fishy or not explained correctly in his post.


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## Monocrom (Dec 6, 2012)

Guys, keep in mind that the OP wasn't the one who experienced this accident. His friend did. This is a 2nd-hand account of what took place. The OP could only go by what his friend told him had happened. His friend told him it was an alkaline battery, and told him it looked fine afterwards. The friend then got rid of the light before anyone could give it a good inspection. 

We have no clue what actually took place. But based on what we know about flashlights and batteries, it's beyond astronomically unlikely that the light exploded with a simple, cheap, alkaline battery inside.


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## ragweed (Dec 6, 2012)

Yep...my point exactly..!


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## Norm (Dec 6, 2012)

*This thread is based entirely on speculation and conjecture, the facts are unknown, I see nothing to been gained by further speculation. 

Thread Closed. - Norm*


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