# TESTING THE SUPER REFLECTORS



## juancho (Oct 18, 2005)

TESTING THE SUPER REFLECTORS

Nicola Tesla did a great job of promoting these reflectors and I don’t know if my humble testing of them can add anything new to what already have been said about them.

Litho 123 sent me three to test them out and report my finding to the Forum, as I understand he is the driving force and the designer of these reflectors and these may well be the ultimate form of them.

Litho 123 was the one that made Carley modify the 1940 to fit into the Mag head without us having to modify it further. In his group buys, he worked hard to assure that every reflector will fit our needs without further work and he went as far as to rectify a too small opening where the bulb holder was jamming in many of them by doing the enlargement himself with his Dremel tool.

Without Litho 123 and his leadership and support in the bulbs and reflector field, we in CPF will not have enjoyed the easy availability to do such great modifications as we do.

As the builder of the MAG 951 II (a higher grade MAG 85) with over seventy of them in the hands of my customers, and having used a numbers of different reflectors in them to satisfy the individual needs of each customer, I am in a good position to test them to the suitability to the different jobs that they are going to be called to do.

The three reflectors: Light Stipple, Medium Stippled and Heavy Stippled, together with a smooth and a light orange peel went into five MAG 951’s generation II flashlights from my shipping stock.







These flashlights all have the ceramic bi-pin socket and the one piece battery carrier with nine Titanium 2400 batteries charged last week.
They all have the internal contacts of the switch polished and all contacts surfaces treated with Pro-Gold.

Now, please grant me license to say a few more words about the different jobs these lights are calling to do and why the need for different reflectors to suit those jobs.
Here in CPF we admire very much the quality beam of the Surefire flashlights, when talking about the most powerful ones such as the M-4 and M-6 with the big turbo heads we fell in rapture of such beautiful beams.
However it is times when more throwing distance is needed and when the only tool that can do it is a higher lumens flashlight with a smooth polished reflector.

My firefighter customers need such a reflector, something that can punch thru the smoke with a tight powerful beam to reach the place from where the screams of victims are coming from.
My rancher’s customers having coyote problems, when they are so bold that come very close to the house as to make the dogs go wild with frantic barking at two a. m. in the morning,
need an extra powerful light under the rifle with reach capabilities of 200 or more yards for when they attempt to shoot the wild dogs. It can only be done with the smooth reflector.
It is not like hunting when you are ready with a companion holding a 2 million candlepower spotlight. It is like you get up from deep sleep awaken from the barking and you step up to your kitchen door barefoot and with your eyes full of sleep, you grab the rifle switch the flashlight under the rifle and see one of the coyotes shying away at the edge of the corral, you know is 187 yards, the light hits him in the eyes and he stop, he is blinded and unable to move as he will not know where he will be going, you are well braced against the doorframe you steady your aim and shoot.

Several ranchers have my set up with the Pelican Lite-Saddle (now unobtainable) to hold the big light under the rifle.






I also have supplied some Wildlife Officers with smooth reflectors in my lights. They and some biologists do deer counts in the fields at night, and they need to reach out from the road to the tree line all across the field to search for the deer.
Rural Policemen working lonely roads have asked me for these reflectors too.

And then I need Orange Peel reflectors for my Police Officer customers (the new stippled reflectors will be great for this application). They want the beam to spread; they call it floodlight or side spill but they all agree in what they need is maximum coverture of the room when they are clearing houses.
They don’t want to pan the light loosing precious seconds, they want to be aware of any thread instantly and if that thread is blinded by the powerful light the better.

I see the Heavy Stippled and Medium Stippled great for this application; they can light the biggest room like daylight. The fantastic spread will be an asset for my light when these became available and I am going to get many of them.

Police checking warehouses, Military Police searching barracks, Security guards, all can benefit from these reflectors beams.

And for my needs, I need a reflector that when I step out on my porch and shine the light at my tool shed 40 yards away it will let me see if the figure lurking in the shadows is a bad guy with a pistol in hand or a nun with a cell phone.
In others words I need to identify clearly what it is that I am seeing, that is the reason I have such a big light in the first place.
Thru my testing of the new reflectors I found that the one that let me do this is the Light Stippled. This reflector surface is the exact replica of the Surefire M-4 and M-6 reflectors. The stippled is a perfect clone and the color of the surface is the same bright metalizing.
Just look at the picture of the shed with this reflector and see how much more light it gets than with the others two reflectors.

The reason is the color of the surface in the M.S and H.S., the surface is satin finished instead of bright as is in the Light Stippled.
I guess this is done to get rid of the bat wings completely; it is a flashaholic dream come true but it does limit the throw considerably.
In the shed pictures, I introduced also the Ginseng’s Polaris light with a 10 degree Osram 50 watt bulb. I wanted to see how this light compares with the Heavy Stippled at a distance. 
Inside my basement den, with the target being my desk, the Polaris was a little whiter than the heavy stippled, but not by much and the spill is the same.

I also shot the Surefire M-6 in my basement den, on the dining room trophy wall and in the tool shed. I think that it is not question to anyone seeing these pictures that the MAG 951 II is a very much superior light in lumens output.





The blue Maglite is Ginseng's Polaris, and the Surefire M-6 is there too.

As many of you know the lumens output coming out of the torch is regulated by how good the reflective surface is. If the reflective surface is impaired the output will diminish greatly.
In the past I have run into a batch of reflectors that had a lot of moisture hidden under the metalizing coating and in the plastic base for the metalizing.
This was a defect from an insufficient cured carrier of the plasticized material that forms the base for the orange peel.
When the light was used for 10 or so minutes the moisture started creeping up covering the reflector in fog, in my dark testing room (my basement) when this occurred the output of light dropped dramatically. Clicking the light off and inspecting the reflector revealed this fogged up reflector; by opening the bezel and letting it air for a few seconds the fog will dissipate, closing down the bezel and clicking the light again I will be rewarded with full output and crazy brightness again.
This is to show how very important is for the output of light that those reflecting surfaces keep reflecting.

So it is easy to understand that if the reflecting surface is bright, the lumens output will be more than with a dull surface.
For those that will like to know how satin is satin and how bright is bright, the difference is exactly the same as you regular aluminum foil from your kitchen; one side is bright, and the other is satin finished.
So this is to say that I really would like to see Carley coming out with a Heavy Stippled in a bright finish.

Another type of reflector I would like to see is one that is stippled or orange peel half of the way and the last half smooth. Such a reflector will take care of the artifacts and bat wings that are formed in the bottom of the reflector and will have a good throw.
I have a light with such a reflector is a Streamlight Tasklight 2 L Luxeon III .

What I will like to see is one of these reflectors in the USL light; it will be interesting to witness the 2000 lumens escaping the tremendous cone of flood that I experienced yesterday when taking pictures in the back yard, as I sold my participation in the USL light a few months ago when my finances were shaky. I don’t think I will witness it any time soon, but somebody should hurry the Heavy Stippled to bwaites to try it out.


The new reflectors will take a while to get here, knowing Carley’s ways and despite the best efforts from Litho123.
As a matter of fact CPF is out of reflectors, bulbs and carriers, so it is a bad time for those wishing to cook their own.
The only available lights are my MAG 951 II of which I have several ready to ship in my thread in The High Road:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=125447&page=5

But I am not the only one; I am sure that if you ask nicely Litho 123 will build one for you and so will bwaites if he can get a little time out of the building of the fantastic USL.
Or you can buy one from Fivemega that will blow your socks and your wallet off!!
The thing about the wallet needs to be explained a little better, because I don’t want people to think that he is expensive, but the one that he is selling now runs with NINE Pila batteries, at I think at $23.00 per battery.

If you visit Fivemega you do that at your own risk, the guy is coming with something new that we didn’t know that we needed so badly, about once every other month.
We have guys in CPF working another job and sending the paycheck to direct deposit in his account. 
My own Pay Pal is riddled with payments to Fivemega. My wife discovered my account and thought that it was a code word for another family that I was keeping.

But if you order from the masters please don’t push for time or take too much of their time out, we in CPF need to keep them fresh and with enough time in their hands that they will keep coming with good ideas for the benefit of our community.

Ginseng, the father of our mods had built a terrific light called the Polaris, the group buy is over now and your only chance of getting one will be on B/S/T. from one of the owners with an itch to get something even more fantastic.

The last test was endurance, I wanted to see if the reflector can take a full run, the way my customers do, I clicked the light in my dark basement and I watched it spill 951 lumens for 23 minutes.
The 23 minutes have to be explained, with the first charge the batteries never attain full capacity, it is only after been recharged 7 or 8 times that you can count with my advertised 30 minutes run.

The reflector took the twenty three minutes run with no trouble, no fogging no peeling no nothing.
It will be hard for me to give it back!

Now for the pictures, as they are so many I will spread them in three posts. The first will be in my den in the basement, the target is my desk and the lens and flashlight are 25 feet away.

Second are the pictures in the dining room against the panel wall between the bear rug and the picture frame.
I like to do the testing against dark surfaces which drink more light than a white reflective surface, the bear rug, black and deep textured is an ideal light collector, when a laser beam is shone on the rug it will almost disappear.
The distance here is 17 feet.

Distance to the tool shed is 43 yards, I set the camera at 15 yards from the shed and I command my son over the radio to shoot number one light and so on, they all have big numbers in a strip of masking tape.

Juan C.


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## juancho (Oct 18, 2005)

THE PICTURES ON MY DEN AGAINST THE DESK, DISTANCE 25 FEET






Surefire M-6 500 lumens






Ginseng's POLARIS 50 watts Osram bulb.






Heavy Stippled reflector






Medium Stippled reflector






Light Stippled reflector






Medium Orange Peel reflector






Smooth polished reflector (cammed)

Still awake?
Yes, I moved the camera just a little after tripping on the tripod after I took the first two pictures of the Surefire and the Polaris.

Juan C.


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## juancho (Oct 18, 2005)

PICTURES AGAINST MY TROPHY WALL, DISTANCE 17 FEET.

NOTICE HOW MUCH MORE THE LIGHT SPREAD TO THE SIDE WITH THE STIPPLED REFLECTORS, TARGET POINT IS BETWEEN THE MIDDLE OF THE FRAME AND THE BEAR RUG.






Surefire M-6 500 lumens






POLARIS 50 watt Osram bulb






Heavy Stippled






Medium Stippled






Smooth (cammed reflector)


Yes I make a mystake, I missed the Light Stippled, I answered the phone and comfuse the order of the shoots afterward.

Juan C.


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## Trashman (Oct 18, 2005)

Strange thing with the first set of shots--the light stipled reflector actually looks more like the heavy stipled than the medium stipled does.


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## juancho (Oct 18, 2005)

DISTANCE TO THE SHED IS 43 YARDS, I PLACED THE CAMERA 15 YARDS AWAY, MY SON WAS SHOOTING THE LIGHTS.






Surefire M-6 500 lumens






Polaris Osram bulb 50 watts.






Medium Stippled






Low orange peel






Light Stippled






Heavy Stippled.

I had to use the LOP because I sold the day before two lights with cammed smooth reflectors.
You can see how the more white light of the Osram bulb make a different in the color rendition of the shed in comparison with the Heavy Stippled reflector.

If you are still with me, congratulations! You are a thru flashaholic.

Best regards to all
Juan C.


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## SJACKAL (Oct 18, 2005)

Juan,

I observed the same with Trashman. Why does the light stippled actually appear more "flood" than the HS and MS?

The LS seems to have a better side spill than the HS and MS and *yet * retaining a good intense hotspot for throw which the HS & MS both lacks.

So hey! All in all, it seems from the 3 sets of beamshots that the LS is the best performing reflector for the stippled series, achieving both throw and flood.


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## SJACKAL (Oct 19, 2005)

Am I also right to deduce from what I see that stippled reflectors provides a better distribution of light than orange peels? And in this case, the LS reflectors possess the higher quality flood of stippled reflectors but are still smooth enough to put the lumens more into a throw?

Refer to post number 39 of NikolaTesla's original thread where we can see from NikolaTesla's blue shirt reflected by the LS but not as much in the MS and HS.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/93992&page=2


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## juancho (Oct 19, 2005)

I don't see it the way you see.
If you look at the corners where the flood is going you will see that the wall with the small pictures on the left side is darker with the Light Stippled reflector, keep comparing and you see the barometer that is darker and the picture frame in the top of the organ is also darker.

Now moving to the right side compare the amount of light that the HS put in the last picture frame on the wall, you will see that even not by a big margin is still more light with the HS than with the LS.

Now for me, I agree than the light stipple is the way to go based on the range in the outdoor pictures.

But I already told you guys that the MS and HS have a satin finished surface and the LS is a very brigth finish.
The HS produces a fantastic cone of light, it is so difused that is mormal than the reach is curtailed.

Juan C.


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## Icebreak (Oct 19, 2005)

Yes. It seems the photos are mixed up. I saw what Trashman saw and in the last group it looks like the Medium Stippled and the Heavy Stippled are flip-flopped.

What's a 951? Focusline? Osram?

I like the ShedShots.


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## SJACKAL (Oct 19, 2005)

Thanx Juan for the good explanation! Its much clearer now. I am definitely in for the HS and LS!


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## nemul (Oct 19, 2005)

if the pics are right the light stippled looks great for throw and flood!


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## Silviron (Oct 19, 2005)

Valuable, informative test and photos. Thank you very much!

However, I have a couple of questions:

What camera are you using for the beamshots? 
What aperture settings and what length of exposure are you using for each shot? 

Thanks.


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## Dr_Joe (Oct 19, 2005)

outstanding work Juan ! :rock:


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## 270winchester (Oct 19, 2005)

hey Juan, can I , uh, have you your dining room?

JK, looks great, thanks for doing this...


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## Codeman (Oct 19, 2005)

Great job on the writeup and pics, Juan! After all the work on the USL, I really appreciate how difficult it can be to get good pics of such superlights.


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## bwaites (Oct 19, 2005)

Great shots Juancho!!!

I was surprised at all the hyperbole about the stippled reflectors.

The Heavy Stipple creates a great wall of light, but essentially NO throw. The Medium is better, but only a little. Light stipple seems like a good compromise, and compares favorably with medium OP from what I can see. The lighter stippling leaves a nicely throwing light, but with good flood also. It is the closest, in my opinon, to the M6 beam, which I consider the best effort to date. 

I want a good combo of flood and throw and the M6 is the best to date in that regard. The MagMods can be smoothed, but as you see from the pics, you lose throw fast with stippling. 

To really compare artifact, throw, etc. a white wall is needed. These are great real world shots, but just like comparing speakers in different locations, they leave a lot to be desired when doing comparisons. The light equivalent of an anechoic chamber is the white wall, where you can easily see the artifact and other weird phenomena associated with high output lamps.

The combo of throw vs. spill continues to be a tough decision!

Bill


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## wquiles (Oct 19, 2005)

Simply outstanding :goodjob:

For close-up work the HS's beam is awesome 

Will


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## NikolaTesla (Oct 19, 2005)

Well good. Now Juan has had a chance to try them too. I would not say that MS (6)and Hs(7) are exactly "No Throw". I don't see any further with my 10x or M4 as Bill infers. He needs to try some too. Good Job, Juan on review. Its not hype. Its a great improvement in what choices we have had making this one off the single most versitile, have your way light you can build.There is still a place for the smooth reflector. Juan points that out well. The right tool for the right job.

The Mag85 and 2D 1111 version have serious lumens availible to work well with the stippled reflector. They also work up close good too as well as way off. That to me is part of the big improvement
And a easy to work with quality host avalible in colors and sizes. Perfect for modders.


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## litho123 (Oct 20, 2005)

Thanks Juancho for a great writeup!

If others are interested in evaluating these stippled reflectors, please sign up here:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=95829

As bwaites said, "The combo of throw vs. spill continues to be a tough decision!"
and I think it really boils down to what will work best for the intended application.


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## tch_popeye (Oct 20, 2005)

litho123 said:


> As bwaites said, "The combo of throw vs. spill continues to be a tough decision!"



...almost like we're coming back to something analogous to the adjustable focus of a Mag...

Excellent pictures. I was about to order some reflectors, too, but will now wait for the stippled ones to become available.

... and waiting... 

-Trev


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## bwaites (Oct 20, 2005)

Hype was probably a bad choice of words.

But gee, of course there is some throw, you are using a lamp that produces more than a thousand lumens!!! Of course there is some throw!!

But look closely at the pictures, there is NO hotspot with the heavy stipple, just a big, evenly lit area. The shed looks like it is being lit with a fluorescent bulb almost.

It's like talking about the USL and throw. It's a little reflector for a 100 watt lamp, and it certainly isn't a light saber, it is more like a light cutlass, there is throw, but it is a function of SO FREAKING MANY PHOTONS being shot out there! 

The same is true of the superbulbs like the WA's. If you think there is much throw, put a stock lamp in a heavy stipple and see how it compares to the stock lamp in a stock reflector. I'll hazard a guess and say that it just looks almost like a floodlight in comparison.

The ability to choose the reflector for YOUR purpose is the important thing, though, and this is a step forward as far as I am concerned.

Bill


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## Schuey2002 (Oct 20, 2005)

Great writeup, Juan!! 

That LS reflector is going to freakin' :rock: :rock: !


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## Lightedge (Oct 23, 2005)

For my taste/use, I like the HS on my Mag85. I don't think of any of the mag mods as spotlights and if I needed a spotlight, I would buy one for a fraction of the cost of modding a mag. An HS in a Mag85 brilliantly lights up my entire backyard and has more throw than I can possibly use in a suburban neighborhood.

That being said, I think the LS has the best balance of beam quality and throw I have ever seen except for maybe an M4/M6. I use this in my Mag31.

BTW, someone commented earlier that bulbs and reflectors aren't available anywhere. I have plenty of both. Litho and I have ordered quite a few of the stipples as well although they will probably take forever to arrive.


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## rscanady (Oct 23, 2005)

Lieghtedge,
Any idea on when the stippled reflectors will be available?

Ryan


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## Lightedge (Oct 25, 2005)

Knowing Carley, probably a couple of more months. Placed the order a couple of weeks ago. I don't know why it takes so long.

I'll post something in Dealers Forum when they arrive. I'm sure Litho will get the word out as well.


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## NikolaTesla (Oct 25, 2005)

I took m HS equiped Mag 1111 2D for a ride in the car last night.

The beam is like having a nice flood/spotlight from a police cruiser. I had no problems lighting up a house from the road. If I was looking for a runner I would like this nice wide even beam of the HS myself. But there are differences. I prefer eveness over hot spot.


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## NikolaTesla (Oct 25, 2005)

I took m HS equiped Mag 1111 2D for a ride in the car last night.

The beam is like having a nice flood/spotlight from a police cruiser. I had no problems lighting up a house from the road. If I was looking for a runner I would like this nice wide even beam of the HS myself. But there are differences. I prefer eveness over hot spot.


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## Sinjz (Nov 1, 2005)

I got to play with these over the weekend and I'll concur with Juancho; The light stipple definately out throws the medium stipple. It's just a little hard to tell via the pics.

The light stipple is very nice. It smooths out the hotspot some, but for my lights, there were still minor shadows and that oval shape. Hard to tell but you can see it if you look for it. Obviously the best thrower of the three.

Medium stipple is probably my favorite. Smooth beam, can't see the hotspot shadows unless you're white wall hunting and the overall output doesn't seemed affected by the reflector. The medium stipple has more of a satin look to it than the chrome of the light stipple, but I think Juancho mentioned something about trying to change that.

Heavy stipple smoothed out the hotspot to make it shadowless, nice and wide. Also satin finish. It would probably be my favorite, but it seemed to lose some of the light output to me. Maybe it was psychological, but it just didn't seem as bright (for room lighting pruposes) as the light and medium stipple ones.

Hope other people can add more info as they get to test them.


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