# How many of you use CFL's? and of what wattage?



## woodsman (Jun 6, 2004)

*How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

Since discovering the light/energy use of CFL's I can't seem to buy a regular incan bulb. I just bought three 85 watt CFL's from top bulb, they are rated at 6000 lumens each.
After screwing them in I love them even though they are only 2700 kelvin. Which is still much whiter than the rest of the place. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I will eventually switch over to all cf's in the near future. I was looking at them last night and found a 120 watt compact, although it had no lumen rating it was only 8 or 9 bucks. I will grab three for the ceiling fan. Lukily I live close to a www.lightbulbdepot.com

Later, Jeff


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## smokinbasser (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

I am slowly converting all of my hot wires to CFs I have a new 3 way CF and am very happy with the light color and output it has the equivalent wattage of a 50/100/150 hot wire with much better enery usage. I have one ceiling fan with CF lighting 30 watt max and it is a variable output with no steps just smooth ramp up and down. I don't use the house lights at night so much as the EDC LED of the moment to safely navigate at night. The CFs need to be in lights that are usually on in order to realize an energy savings, but I'm not concerned if immediate reduction in energy bills don't materialize; it takes a significant number of energy saving items to notice the difference in energy bills. There have many improvements to household energy vampire appliances in recent times and newer refrigerators are one area where considerable effort was spent making them more efficient energy wise, electric waterheaters are better now and they are always looking for new technology for more energy saving improvements.


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## Glenn (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I use CFL's from 60-125 depending on where used/amount light needed where they are not turned on and off a lot.
Otherwise I use the GE Reveal that are close to daylight.
I bought a supply of the "Reveals" and replaced EVERY incandescent in my house with them.
Even the ones in the basement and carport.

Glenn


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## jtr1962 (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

I have two 28W 5000K Panasonic light capsules in my bedroom for when I want lower lighting levels than my ceiling fixture (4 x 32W 5000K T-8 full-spectrum tubes). My mom's bedroom has two Feit 3-way CFLs (10W/20W/28W) in the table lamps. In the living room we have two older large type CFLs (1 22W circline tube and 1 27W D tube, both warm white). The kitchen has a 14W CFL above the stove for a night light and the bathroom uses 3 14W CFLs (3000K) above the mirror and a cool-white 32W circline tube on the ceiling. The garage has two 25W CFLs plus the old (i.e. removed from kitchen) 4x40W linear tube fixture with Sylvania cool-white deluxe tubes. The outdoor side light uses a 25W CFL. Most of our CFLs, except for the Panasonic light capsules which I bought on eBay, are the usual readily available warm whites which I personally can't stand but I bought them cheap when the local K-mart went out of business (and even warm white fluorescent looks way better than incandescent, which I hate with a purple passion). Most of the rest of the house, including the entire finished basement and the kitchen, is lit with four-foot linear tubes (either T-12 or T-8). I only use 4100K, 5000K, or 6500K tubes with high color rendering. The only incandescents we have are in the master bedroom, living room, and dining room chandeliers, and those will be replaced as soon as some nice 5000K LED replacements are available (hopefully within a few years).

CFLs are a good thing in that they allow a quick efficiency upgrade of any existing fixture, and if you want to hunt around a bit the higher color temperature ones also offer much nicer lighting than either an incandescent or the standard warm whites. However, I generally only consider them a half-measure. As I mentioned in another thread I prefer to use linear 4-foot tube T-8 fixtures for lighting upgrades as they are 50% more efficient than CFLs, give a huge amount of light, and you have a huge variety of tubes to choose from, including some with CRIs as high as 98 (the highest CFLs I've seen so far are 93).


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## James S (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

I use a LOT of them also. They are somewhat problematic with some of the home automation stuff from X10 that I use so I have to rig things up, or use more expensive switches than I would with a regular bulb, but thats a minor problem compared to the savings I get from them.

Mostly my love of them has to do with the heat they don't produce. Especially now that it's really getting hot around here and the AC is on. They make a huge difference in comfort levels in the room. Last year I replaced 700 watts of kitchen lights with 150 watts of CF's. They are brighter than the array of 75 watt bulbs that they replaced and I can run them without overheating the room. 

This summer I replaced another thousand watts or so of floods in our family room with CF's. Just the $9 85 watt equivalents from home depot. They are holding up very nice, and you can light the place without feeling any heat at all coming down from the lamps! The AC doesn't cycle any harder and it stays cool in there. The fancy ones would probably have had a little bit nicer color temp, but these really are nice, not blue but whiter than the old lamps were. They are excellently bright for the play area there too. I'm very happy with them and It doesn't even make me mad when they get left on for a while with nobody in there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now I'm spoilt by them though. And I can't put then in the various chandelier type fixtures around the house. The one in the kitchen over the table is particularly problematic. It's got nearly 500 watts of those little bulbs. Everytime my wife turns it on during the day she also has to turn down the AC in order to comfortably sit under it. So someday that fixture might get replaced, but not this year.


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## jtr1962 (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*Glenn said:*
I bought a supply of the "Reveals" and replaced EVERY incandescent in my house with them.


[/ QUOTE ]

I forgot to mention in my post that I also use Reveal in the few remaining incandescents where I live. They're a huge improvement over standard incandescent as far as light quality goes. Just eyeballing it their CCT appears to be in the 3700K to 4000K range, which is about the lowest CCT that I find tolerable (5000K to 5500K is just about ideal for me).


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## IlluminatingBikr (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

In my house we have CFL wherever we can. There are a few places where we don't use them. My room is one example, but my lights are on a dimmer so it's not possible to use them. I'm thinking of losing the dimmer and going with CFLs! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


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## The_LED_Museum (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I have three CFLs in the bathroom (two 28 watt units above the mirror, and I think a 13 watt in the ceiling), and three CFLs in the bedroom. For the two in the ceiling fixture, I don't know for sure what wattage they are, but I think they're 13 watts. And the one in my bedside lamp is 28 watts. I have a fourth CFL in a bedroom lamp, but I don't use it very often.

There are two CFLs in the living room lamps too, but I hardly ever use the lamps. My computer monitors, TV, and LED flashlights generally provide whatever lighting I need in that room.

The only two lights I have that still use incandescent light blubs are in the front hall and in the kitchen.
I don't often need the light in the front hall, but when it comes time to change the light blubs in the kitchen fixture, I'll probably install CFL bulbs in their place.

In the desk lamp by the computers, there's an LED bulb. It uses 24 white LEDs, and has a medium screw base to fit any 110-120VAC light fixture. But otherwise, the majority of my house lighting comes from CFL bulbs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## IlluminatingBikr (Jun 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Oh, I forgot to add something. We have a 55W (actual wattage /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif) CFL in our garage. It took the place of a 100W bulb, that screws into a mount that's on the side of the wall, next to the door that goes from the garage to the house. After that thing gets warmed up, we call it "the sun." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Zelandeth (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Have a few CFL's in here, only light that isn't flourescent in here is the main ceiling light, which is a 100W Philips halotone. That only tends to get used when I'm taking photographs, and I haven't found a CFL with sufficient output to replace it yet. 

Have got a page on general lighting things on my website, mostly populated by CFL's just now.

http://zelandeth.artamir.org/ Click on the "LED & Lighting" button. Couple of the pages aren't there yet as it's a new page, and there's still a LOT to be added.


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## woodsman (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Zelandeth,
www.topbulb.com has some 85 and 105 watt CFL'S The 85 watt one's I have are supossed to be rated at 6000 lumens each.
If your looking for a very powerful CFL to replace your 100 watt philips, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif although I don't know how many lumens It produces. 

Jeff


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## PhotonWrangler (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I use CFLs almost exclusively now. Most are in the 14-18w range. I tried using one of the Philips "dimmable" CFLs in a 3-way dimmer lamp but it just didn't work right - the lamp would flicker at all sorts of different brightness levels (except the one that I wanted at the moment). Wound up putting an incandescent back in that one because it was so cranky with CFLs.

I think the "dimmable" moniker on the Philips package mostly means that a dimmer won't fry the electronics.


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## UncleFester (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Here's a pretty cool application. Put a 13 Watt CFL in a clip-on flood light. Get a voltage inverter and take the whole thing on your next camping trip. When you need a lot of light in the middle of nowhere, it's no problem. Long distances from the inverter are no issue because the 13W at 120Vac is such small current there's very little loss in the extension cord(s). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## yuandrew (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Let me see, My first CFL was an old GE magnetic ballast 13 w PL adaptor that I don't use anymore (broke the bulb.)
CFLs I currently have in use are 13 watt Lights of America "The BULB"(longest lasting!) and a 13 watt GE Electronic BIAX both in the ceiling fan in the dineing room. 
I have several "Top Lite" brand 20 watt bulbs both in the PL and the Spiral form. PL versions are in recessed fixtures in the hallway and the Spiral versions are in a table lamp and a back yard light. The rest await to be used and are sitting in the cabinet over the washer.
There's one 13 watt Top Light Spiral in the hood over the stove and a 23 watt MaxLite Spiralmax in another table lamp in the living room.
I also have a 55 watt Flourscent Torchier and 27 watt "Easy Eye" lamp in my study. 
Ok, not a compact flourscent but I hacksawed one of my 20 watt Top-Lites and placed the ballast circuit board in an undercabinet lamp with a 2 foot GE Chroma 50 that is on the ceiling in my room. The "bulb" part of that lamp was placed in a flourscent lantern in place of the twin tube it had originally.


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## James S (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

you want to know how many I have up? Oh, well OK


the biggest installs of them here are in the kitchen and the family room. In the family room I've got 8 of the 85 watt equivalent Commercial Electric floods from Home Depot. Previously they were all 65 watt regular bulbs and were dim and hot and expensive. The other 2 ceiling lights in there are 75 watt equivalent marathons. There are 2 3 way marathon bulbs in 2 end table lamps in that room. So you can see that it's significantly reduced the amount of power used and heat generated in that room!

In the kitchen i've got 8 cans that don't require par type bulbs as they are already reflective. I replaced 8 75 watt bulbs in there with an assortment of 60/75 and 100 watt equivalent bulbs. the brighter ones over the stove. Some of Commercial Electric, some are GE. So they all startup a little differently but thats OK. once warmed up it's brighter than before and doesn't significantly add to the heat in the summer which is important to the expensive AC. Also over the sink is a commercial electric 65 watt equivalent. They warm up very slowly and are pretty useless for the first few minutes, but after a few more you can leave it on for a long time without worrying about it.

My office is lit by 2 of the same 85 watt ones as the family room, and 2 60 watt equivalent GE's in the ceiling fan light kit. Also the darker hallways that tend to get turned on at dusk and run all evening are 60 watt equivalent GE's. 

I made the mistake of buying 2 of the 75 watt "cool/daylight" colored commercial electrics one day. They are so blue it's almost funny. Some people might like them though, once warmed up they are not so bad. I put them in the fixture in the laundry room as I think it's easier to see stains and such under that light.

Both bathrooms have 60 watt commercial electrics in the fixtures. These lights tend to get left on and with those in there I don't have to worry too much about it. 

In the living room I've got 2 100 watt equivalents in the couch side reading lamp, and another 60 watt in a lamp in the other dark corner. This room has quite a bit of regular lighting also, but I keep it dimmed a bit and only have the computer turn it on after dusk. couple of others in the master bedroom, in a regular lamp and a reading lamp, 60 watts each.

finally I just put 4 60 watt equivalent commercial electrics in the fixtures in the kids rooms upstairs. I'm working to repaint the second bedroom up there and it was just too hot to work up there with 4 regular bulbs in it!

I have some regular tube type in the garage and over the workbench.

So, yes, I have quite a few /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif And mostly I've been happy with them. Initially they had high failure rates, but in the last couple of years i've been happy with almost all of the ones I've bought. THey seem to be getting the manufacturing problems sorted out. I think I still have better luck with the lower wattage ones.


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## Willmore (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*IlluminatingBikr said:*
Oh, I forgot to add something. We have a 55W (actual wattage /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif) CFL in our garage. It took the place of a 100W bulb, that screws into a mount that's on the side of the wall, next to the door that goes from the garage to the house. After that thing gets warmed up, we call it "the sun." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

When I bought my current house, the garage had no outlets in the ceiling--so no shop lights, no garage door opener... So, I got a permit and wired up a set of switched and unswitched outlets. Then I hung 8 2x32T8 shop lights in there. So, I understand your 'sun' comment. If they aren't enough, I have a 400W MH HID fixture up in the attic that I can lower on a pulley down into the main garage and really light the place up! I've not yet had to do that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Willmore (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*PhotonWrangler said:*
I think the "dimmable" moniker on the Philips package mostly means that a dimmer won't fry the electronics. 

[/ QUOTE ]

dimmable means that you can use it on a dimmer and that it will vary brightness with the dimmer setting. 3-way lights actually have multiple sets of contacts in the base that they use to run two different filaments. The filaments are normally 1X and 2X in brightness, so you can get 1X, 2X, and 3X brightness by switching the first on, the second on, and then both on. They're completely different animals than dimmable bulbs. You can get CFL bulbs that are specifically 3-way. Keep looking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## BuddTX (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Outside, I LOVE EM!

I have 5 of the CF flood lights. It is like 75 watts of light for only 15 watts of power. I have had them for several years, I have noticed that there are nicer, newer ones in both Lowes and Home Depot now.

Inside, I AM LOOKING for 12 of the 9 watt bathroom vanity bulb looking CF lights to replace the 25 or 40 watt incan vanity bulb lights.

Anyone know where I can find these cheap?

So where do you get dimmable CF? I have some cieling fans that could use them! I have not seen many dimmable CF.


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## brickbat (Jun 8, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*yuandrew said:*

Ok, not a compact flourscent but I hacksawed one of my 20 watt Top-Lites and placed the ballast circuit board in an undercabinet lamp with a 2 foot GE 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeez - I thought I was the only one nuts enough to try that. I got fed up with the annoying magnetic ballasts in our kitchen under cab lights, and tried the same trick - working great so far... As for CFL's, I'm generally too attached to warm color lamps (hey I like candle flames, kerosene lanterns, and firelight) so I don't use them in 'living' areas, but our kitchen, outside lights and shop lights are all CFL and linear T8. The most impressive CFLs are the 3W candelabra lamps - amazimg amount of light from a 3W bulb. I have an electronic wattmeter, and they really do use only 3W. Most other CFLs I've checked are pretty close to their rated wattage - usually a touch under their rating.


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## BuddTX (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Man, I found a nice 7W tiny CF with a standard base at my Lowes.

4.98!

These guys are replacing the round globe lights on my vanity bar in my 2 Bathrooms!

42 total (7x6) watts instead of 150! (or 240 if you were using 40 watt bulbs!)


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## Willmore (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I use a 7W CCFT for the security light on my front porch. It's an ungodly high color temperature bulb--some 7000K. In daylight it looks very nice, but at night, it takes on a strong blue/green tint, but being so dim (7W), it doesn't hurt my night vision. Being closer to the scotoptic (sp?) ideal, it appears brighter than an equivalent incandescent would.

I'm just worried where I'm going to get another bulb for it when it burns out.


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## Lurker (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I use them and they are mostly in the range of 15-23 watts of actual power consumption, which is equivalent light to roughly 45-75 watts incandescent. My wife leaves all the lights on all the time, so CFLs are a less expensive option than divorce.

I still haven't replaced the bathroom vanity globe bulbs, but if my wife is willing to accept CFLs there, that is my next move. Lowe's home center is carrying them as well as the Sylvania 3-way reading lamp bulb and the other excellent Sylvania bulbs, too.


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## Zelandeth (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Thanks for that link to Topbulb. Thost 105W CFL's certainly look intersting...shame that I'm in the UK, hence have a 220V 50Hz supply to deal with (Okay, it actually floats between 235 and 255V), so nothing there's of any real use to me.

Still, sure that someone makes a 220V version, albeit at twice the price most likely.


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## Chris M. (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Want a big CFL? Try the 4-loop 65 watt Saver-Lamp from http://www.ultimastore.co.uk - it`s that horrid 2700K colour but it sure is bright and only ten quid! They also do an 85 watt spiral now, and although I havn`t seen that one myself yet, I can guarantee you it`s blinding. Claimed to be equivalent to 425 watts of tungsten lighting, and only £16.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif


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## hideo (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

me likes 'em. too and and as all of you patriotic citizens know, reducing energy dependence improves national security /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

out of the 16 bulbs in fixtures on the first floor of the house, 10 are CFLs, mostly Sylvania/Osram which last and have a pleasing tint--the six remaining are oddballs, or on dimmers--our second floor is almost all CFLs

read somewhere that if all Americans switched over to CFLs for the fixtures that would accomodate them, we would reduce our petroleum dependency by some obscene amount--anyone have the spec on that?

cheers to all of you!!

hideo


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## PhotonWrangler (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*Willmore said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*PhotonWrangler said:*
I think the "dimmable" moniker on the Philips package mostly means that a dimmer won't fry the electronics. 

[/ QUOTE ]

dimmable means that you can use it on a dimmer and that it will vary brightness with the dimmer setting. 3-way lights actually have multiple sets of contacts in the base that they use to run two different filaments. The filaments are normally 1X and 2X in brightness, so you can get 1X, 2X, and 3X brightness by switching the first on, the second on, and then both on. They're completely different animals than dimmable bulbs. You can get CFL bulbs that are specifically 3-way. Keep looking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, however this three-way lamp is electronic, in that it uses a single-contact (one-way) bulb and provides three different preset levels of dimming. It works great on almost any incandescent bulb, but the Philips dimmable CFL acts very weird in this fixture!


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## evan9162 (Jun 12, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Just went on a shopping spree at the Home Depot, and picked up a bunch of Commercial Electric CFLs. How come only Commercial Electric has figured out how to make ALL of their CF bulbs work right in enclosed/recessed fixtures, while most of the other maker's CFs say specifically not to?

Anyway, today, I picked up an A-type (bulb shaped) 14W CF to complement the other 3 I had, and put them in the cieling fan of the living room - I needed bulb looking CFLs because the bulbs in this fixture are exposed and need to look nice. The drawback is that I'm stuck with the pink-yellow warm 2700K color of those bulbs.

If I didn't care so much, I would have picked up a bunch of the daylight CF mini-spirals instead.

Just out of curiosity, I also picked up a 19W daylight spiral CF, and installed that in a table lamp in the living room. WOW. I love the color! 6500K. I guess I've been spoiled by LED lights or something. The color of this light matches both of my beautifully white 5W luxeon lights.

Also picked up 4 R30 14W reflector CFs to replace a couple of the recessed spotlights in the kitchen. These are also warm bulbs (2700K). They actually put out much more light than the 65W bulbs that they replaced. They are a touch longer than the original bulbs, so I had to move the socket up deeper in the enclosure to make it look nice.

After seeing the daylight CFL I got today in action, I will be severly tempted to go get some more daylight bulbs to replace some of my sickly yellow lights (both incandescant and CFL).


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## jtr1962 (Jun 12, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I like the Commercial Electric daylight CFL also. In fact, I was so thrilled to find something other than the yucky yellow 2700K/3000K in a regular retail store. Some people here have complained that this CFL looks too blue. Maybe next to a regular CFL or before it warms up it does, but when viewed by itself it gives a much crisper light than regular CFLs. Too bad daylight and/or 5000K CFLs aren't more widely available in retail stores.


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## Zelandeth (Jun 13, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Chris M...showing me that site was not a good thing for my wallet. I have just sooo got to get one of those 85W spirals...


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## Chris M. (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Sorry /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

But I have to get one too eventually (they didn`t have that one avaliable when I bought a few from them a while ago) so it isn`t all good here either. Wherever will I put the thing?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


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## Zelandeth (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Okay, I just bought one. Will get the page up when I recieve it, and let you know what I think. That thing is massive though! 258mm long, that's 10 inches! Gonna have to do a comparison photo between the miniscule little 5W philips CFL, a standard bulb, and that monster! 

Have a look at the PDF catalog, they have scaled photos there.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 14, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I got a two pack of GE Soft White 60 (15w) at Walmart.

I put one in my cieling fan light. It is a dim start needing about 30 seconds to be full strength. It is also a bit too yellow (compared to 60w Reveal).

When I have some cash, I'll visit Home Depot.

I notice that some of the way off brand CFLs I got at Big Lots are starting to dim in some tubes.... this after at least a year.


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## Willmore (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Ahhh, okay, so it's not a '3-way', but a 3 setting dimming fixture. Odd that the Philips bulb doesn't work in it. I wonder how they're doing the dimming. For the normal in wall dimmer I have in my bedroom, the philips bulbs work just fine--except at extremely low levels where they cycle on and off.


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## woodsman (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Mine are around 9 inches, says the package, although I haven't measured them. These things are big and powerfull!
When I flip the switch on mine, they are at about 90-95% brightness. After ten seconds they are rocking. Three of these spread out over 500 or so square feet are unreal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Zelandeth (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Well...the bulb arrived this morning...first reaction "Holy resistors, this thing's a monster! To give a sense of scale, the BASE alone, is almost exactly the length of a standard light bulb...and the tube section as long again, and wider. Thanks to this, is going to be a total nightmare to photograph...my camera hasn't got good depth of field in macro mode, and as such, getting it all in frame will be "fun"

Okay, time to see how it performs, not ideal timing given that it's midday, but what the heck, I'm impatient, been wanting to get my paws on this thing for two days now. Getting it into the intended fixture required removal of the shade...as it was too wide to fit through the hole! So I just set that aside for now, flick switch, *blink* *blink* WOW! That sucker's BRIGHT. The 425W equivilancy claim I can't comment on, but this thing totally blows a 250W incandescent clear out of the water, by a very considerable margin. Sure, it's 2700K temperature, but that's a heck of a lot whiter than the incan was.

If you have space for one in the fitting, and need serious light, this is what you need!

Will be putting up a page with photos in the next hour or so on my "LED & Lighting" page. Just look in that section for the "SaverLamp Super Spiral 85W 2700K" Entry. 

Only problem I've found so far is that it's in the category of CFL's which don't like my illuminated light switch. (Puts two NE-2H lamps in series with the bulb when the switch is off). Some CFL's manage to charge a capacitor in the ballast from this mA or so, and eventually will get to a point that the cap will discharge through the tube, this visible as a flash. This one blinks very dimly about once every 6 seconds. Time to alter the switch I think!

Okay, I'll be kind. Here's a direct link.

LOZ Page: SaverLamps "Super Spiral" 85W 2700K 

Chris M. If you haven't already ordered one, GO DO SO! Be intersting to see what a more professional bulb expert makes of this than me. Is certainly a necessary purchase for a collector though.


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## jtr1962 (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

In case anyone is interested in the US, you can buy 85W CFLs here for $29.99 each in both 2700K _and_ 6500K. If I had spare cash I'd probably order two of the 6500K variety to replace the 23W warm white CFLs in the garage.

Based on the lumen output of other large CFLs (42W usually gives around 65 to 70 lm/W), these probably put out in the neighborhood of 5500 to 6000 lumens, which is roughly equivalent to a 300 incandescent bulb (6200 lumens). One will light an average room pretty brightly, and two ought to be enough for almost anyone.

Using the standard lamp socket as a point of reference that thing must be _huge_.


----------



## pedalinbob (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

holy cow, so much info!

i have 3 outside lights that automatically come on at dusk, and off at dawn. they also are 2 stage: full power when they sense movement, and 1/2 power when idle. i have 40w incans in them now--plenty of light. but, it is still 60w running all night.

is there a CF bulb that will work with this setup?

also, what would be nice brands/watts color temp for general use arounfd the house (with perhaps 60w or 75w equivalent light output)?

Bob


----------



## James S (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I noticed yesterday at Home Depot that they are now carrying a monster 40 watt CF from commercial electric that says it's equivalent to a 150 watt regular bulb. It's rather large also, but not like that one pictured above /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I didn't buy one, so I can't comment on the color temp. But the other ones are completely acceptable to me once they warm up. When you first turn them on they are a little green, but they brighten up nicely. The commercial electric ones I mean.


----------



## Chris M. (Jun 24, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Just got my Big Giant Spiral lamp today. It`s not so big....







Actually it is. It`s vast. I can`t get over just how enormous this thing is. Having also recieved an Inova X0 the other day, which looks identical to the X1 but much bigger, I suddenly feel like I`m really small!

Incidentally, the tungsten bulb in the first photo is a ~1930s 1000 watt Edison Mazda lamp, used for warehouse and yard lighting, and possibly smaller lighthouses? Here`s a more sensible comparison next to the smallest spiral in the "Saver Lamp" range, and a bog standard (well, vibration resistant 15 watt) regular light bulb....






And compared to a Pellincan M6-LED:






As far as brightness is concerned, it is extremely impressive. After the sun *finally* sets for another day, I`ll run a comparison next to a 500 watt tungsten bulb assuming I can find a suitable one, to see just how well it does. Won`t be anything scientific but should give a decent idea of the relative outputs.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## Chris M. (Jun 24, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

OK, well I tried to take a side by side "beamshot" comparison of the output of this lamp against that of a 500 watt tungsten lamp (2 seperate photos, fixed camera settings/one photo, divided down the middle somehow/etc) but couldn`t make it come out the way I had hoped. And the 500 watt lamp is a vintage Philips Argaphoto, photoflood lamp that runs hotter and brighter than a 500 watt GLS, at the expense of lifetime. Not exactly a fair comparison. And unfortunately I have no idea where my light-meter went so I can give no lux readings either right now.

You`ll just have to take my word for it. This is a heck of a big, bright lamp!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif


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## greenLED (Jun 24, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

We have 'em in 10 of our light fixtures, mostly 18 W if I remember correctly. Where we don't have CF, we have "regular" fluorescent lights.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

Oh YIKES!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

I just brought home a 6500K Commercial Electric 75w Equivalent home from Home Depot.

I intended to use in place of a very soft 60w GE = in my room. 

Holy CRAP! This thing is BLUEISH!!!!

Even compared to the Qualistar bulbs from BigLots (which are a fair piece "whiter" than the soft GE's) this thing is blueish! It stands out like a sore manly piece among Qualistars. It made my room look WAY industrial.

Only place I can think of where 6500K CE bulb would be usefull is in a garage (mine is tubed).


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## flashfan (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

tr1962, thanks for the link to those 6500k bulbs. I've been using the TopBulb.com 85 and 105 watt (2700k) CF bulbs for over a year now, and think they are great, but I prefer whiter light, so this is a great find. Time to go shopping...


----------



## Lurker (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

Bob, I don't think fluorescent lights are very compatible with motion sensitive lighting in general and particularly with the 2-brightness kind that you have. You may be able to find something that would technically work, but I think the best solution is to use motion-sensitive lights which are only on/off (not dim) and use incandescent lights there. You may have a setting on your lights to deactivate the dim mode. This will still give you security and convenience with less energy consumption and less light pollution.

As for lights for general indoor use, I have been the most happy with all of the Sylvania brand CFLs that I have bought. They are not always the cheapest, but they are worth looking for. Where I live, Lowes Home Center has the best selection.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

DOUBLE YIKES!

I JUST brought home a Warm White Commercial Electric 19w = 75w bulb from Home Depot.

While certainly a bit brighter than the 60 GE I had in my room...

It is DISTINCLY more yellow or "warm" than even the GE.

Is there no happy medium????


----------



## pedalinbob (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

thank you, Lurker!

Bob


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## James S (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

I agree with lurker. Some very good color and brightness from the sylvania bulbs that I own too. I've been very happy with them. Unfortunately the lowes here does not carry them.

As far as motion sensors. The whole point is that you don't run the lights very much right? And since they tend to go on and off a lot you're really wearing on the ballast of the CF which has a finit number of starts it can manage before it starts to go south on you. Plus, when the light wants to turn on you want the lights on right away to see what triggered the thing or to frighten away the perp creeping up your driveway. If the CF starts out very dim it's not too good in a motion sensor either.

My outdoor lights are all still regular bulbs. I do plan to switch the porch lights at least to CF's at some point as they do run into the night a little bit. But I need to get a different switch before I can do that.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

Upon further use and reflection, I am happy enough with the 19W (75W Equivalent) Warm White Commercial Electric CFL I got yesterday at Home Depot.

I suspect I thought it was too yellow due to sunlight coming through the mini blinds yesterday evening.

At absolute dark and again this AM it looks ok.

If I should happen to find Sylvania CFLs somewhere, I will certainly try one!


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## Lurker (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

You may also be happier with the commercial electric bulb now because it has had a chance to break in a little bit. These bulbs are not always at their best right out of the box.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jun 30, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

The CE 19w warm white seems even better now...

Especially since I cleaned the globe that covers it very well.

But that CE Daylight 19w in my Bathroom STILL sticks out like a sore thumb in it's aparent "blueness".


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## flashfan (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

Uh oh. I just ordered some 6500k light bulbs. While I prefer tints towards the blue spectrum rather than the yellow/green, I hope they're not too blue.


----------



## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

Good luck, Flashfan!

I now have a few more sockets to fill...

But the ones that get the most use have CFLs now!


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## Lurker (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

Yeah, I tried a couple of those Commercial Electric Daylight CFL's and I just couldn't keep them for how blue they were. I don't often return stuff, but I took those right back. I don't know why they even sell them. Yuck!


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

They would almost have to go in a garage.

The way my bathroom light is, all light goes up unimpeeded, while some comes down through a "lense" if you will. Coming through the "lense" it gives (mixed with the Qualistars) it is acceptable... barely!

The Warm White CEs seem to be just peachy after using them a while.


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## Lurker (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

I am glad you are liking the warm white CE bulbs better now. Mine are a tad slow to warm up, but are just fine overall. I have an enclosed fixture for which they are rated, so I need them.

I think that kind of light in your bathroom is called a sconce. They provide a really pleasant light by bouncing it off of the ceiling. One of my favorites. And you can hide CFLs in there easily.

Unfortunately, in my bathroom, I am stuck with the lousy strip that takes 6 bare vanity globe light bulbs. Lots of glare and wasted energy. I would change the fixture, but I would never be able to patch the wallpaper and I am sure my wife and I could never agree on a replacement fixture anyway from a decorative vs. functional standoff. She also doesn't like the CFL vanity globes (I don't blame her), so even using 45 watt globes, that thing is drawing 240 watts and gets left on most of the time. This one fixture in my house is probably consuming more power than all the others combined now that the rest are CFLs. It is driving me crazy.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

Wow, I'm SERIOUSLY lucky in that regard!

I had three (2x7w and 1x11w) Qualistars in a triangle arrangement in my closet. Last night I changed to one 15w GE Soft White (that had been in my bedroom fixture.

Good light for even less watts!


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## evan9162 (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

[ QUOTE ]
*Lurker said:*
Unfortunately, in my bathroom, I am stuck with the lousy strip that takes 6 bare vanity globe light bulbs. Lots of glare and wasted energy. I would change the fixture, but I would never be able to patch the wallpaper and I am sure my wife and I could never agree on a replacement fixture anyway from a decorative vs. functional standoff. She also doesn't like the CFL vanity globes (I don't blame her), so even using 45 watt globes, that thing is drawing 240 watts and gets left on most of the time. This one fixture in my house is probably consuming more power than all the others combined now that the rest are CFLs. It is driving me crazy. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I have those 40W globes in both of my bathrooms - 5 in the hallway one, but the worst is the master bath - 12! So hitting that switch causes 480 watts of power to be used! Replacing them all with CFL globes would be spendy...


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## IlluminatingBikr (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

evan9162,

A 7 watt CFL puts out about as much light as one 40W incandescent, so if you replace the 12 in the master bath to CFLs, you will only use 84 watts compared to 480!!! Overall, you will be using 119 watts rather than 680, which is a differnce of 561 watts! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## James S (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Wow, i'd be thinking that you'd also be able to cook your eggs over that much heat generated from 12 of them too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif DO you do your eggs on them when you're in the shower? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


bathroom lights are generally not used a whole lot, an hour in the morning and again in the evening. So unless you keep the lights on for a long time (or have a tendency to leave them on all day) you won't save much from the CF bulbs. Also some people don't like the color of them in the bathroom.

The bathroom is one of the rooms in my house that is entirely still incandescents. (oh with the exception of the light in the fixture over the shower which is a PAIN to change and gets left on all the time because the switch is across the room from the door and so you never think to turn it off by walking 3 feet across the room again... )

But I do have the computer controlling those lights, so 30 minutes after it last senses motion with the security system sensor in there it sends an off for the lights to make sure that nobody left any of them on. I do that with most rooms. The only one that has caused my any problems is the kitchen when the we finally get sat down to dinner the timeout is too short and it sometimes turns the lights off on us while we're eating and then she glares at me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I got a three pack of 23w (100w = ) CEs at Home Depot earlier while getting needed paint.

I have one in the 'office' now. Geez! That's a lot of light!

But the three were $9.97, and a single 60w or 75w = cost something like 7 bucks each!

The only other three pack was 60w Daylight at $12.97...

NO THANKS!

Thanks for turning me on to CE!!!


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## evan9162 (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*James S said:*
Wow, i'd be thinking that you'd also be able to cook your eggs over that much heat generated from 12 of them too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif DO you do your eggs on them when you're in the shower? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Cooking isn't far from the truth. You can feel the heat radiating from the lights when they're on. We don't really use them more than about 20 minutes per day, so replacing them won't be cost effective. When showering, just the spot above the shower is on, which I replaced with a Commercial Electric R30 65W equivalent CF flood - that one gets the most use - once it warms up (about 30 seconds) it's quite a bit brighter than the 65W flood that it replaced (and whiter too).


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## IlluminatingBikr (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

PlayboyJoeShmoe,

What are "CE"s?


----------



## pedalinbob (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

hmm. upon further thought, i think maybe i should replace my outdoor incans with CFL. 

right now, i have three 40w bulbs. each comes on at dusk, at 1/2 power (20w). when sensing motion, they kick up to full power.

i think there is a switch where i can disable the 1/2 power feature. then, i could just use the sylvania 7w bulbs, and i will get the same light as the incan when it is at full power. 21w vs 120.

not bad at all!

anyone know if the CFL's do ok outside (my fixtures are pretty water resistant) and in the cold?

Bob


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## jtr1962 (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*pedalinbob said:*
anyone know if the CFL's do ok outside (my fixtures are pretty water resistant) and in the cold?


[/ QUOTE ]
I've used CFLs for the last year and a half in the main outdoor light where I live. This light is on an average of about 14 hours a day. The first CFL (25W) lasted 13 months (~5500 hours), a bit less than the rated 8,000 hour life, but other than that there were no issues. Light output didn't drop that much even on very cold nights, and it started fine in the cold, although it did take longer to reach full brightness. I think perhaps since the fixture is totally enclosed the warm months may have shortened it's life even though it did fail in the middle of the winter. Even so, we avoided replacing the 60W bulb about 6 times (@ ~$0.75 each) and only paid $3.50 for the CFL, so it paid for itself just in saved replacement costs. On top of that, we probably saved about 200 kW-hr of electric costing around $36 at current rates of about $0.18 per kw-hr (soon to be raised to $0.43 per kw-hr). When the current CFL burns out I'll get a daylight CFL from Commecial Electric which is designed for totally enclosed fixtures, and I'll see if I get the rated life of 10,000 hours (that would be about 2 years with current usage patterns).

Considering that 40W incandescents put out about 400 lumens you'll probably get the same light out of a 7W CFL, but in general the replacement ratio is closer to 1:3, especially when replacing larger size incandescents. This of course assumes that you're using the standard warm-whites. If you're using higher color temperatures you can use fewer lumens and still get the same apparent brightness. For example, the 19W daylight CE CFL probably appears about as bright as a 100W incandescent whereas you would normally need a 30W or so warm-white CFL to get same brightness.


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## BB (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

jtr1962,

Where do you live? From $0.18 to $0.43/KW-Hr for electricity????

Boy, I thought California was bad at ~$0.12/KW-Hr...

Solar/Battery (can be roughly $0.25/KW-Hr) sounds like it would be a very cost effective solution for you--but I would fear that you live in a very high price area and Solar would also not be cheap.

-Bill


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## jtr1962 (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I live in New York City which is a big reason I'm very big on fluorescents, especially the more efficient linear tubes. We have probably the highest electrical rates in the nation around here. ConEd (very appropriate name, BTW) is planning on a rate increase of _up to_ 250% soon, although I'm hoping the $0.43 per KW-hr will only apply to excessive usage during peak hours, and not to average usage. Even so, I think we can expect over $0.20/KW-hr at least in the very near future. I've heard some parts of the country pay less than $0.05/KW-hr. I don't know why our rates are so damned high. I would think there would be more efficiency providing power to a densely populated area.

I'm seriously studying solar, and not just for the savings. I like the idea of not depending solely on an overloaded grid for power. Assuming I can get the panels fairly cheaply, I can do the rest myself. If ConEd offers reverse meters I would sell my surplus electricity back to them. If I put in enough panels, I may even get a check from them each month rather than a bill. If reverse meters aren't offered, I would buy enough batteries to get me through several cloudy days, and only use the grid for when my system was down. I'll also use solar for my heating and hot water needs (this part of it is mostly just blackened pipes under glass enclosures). We currently have oil heating and fossil fuels aren't getting any cheaper either. As time goes on solar power will only get cheaper while being "on the grid" will get more expensive. Eventually, I suspect it will be built in to new homes, and retrofitted to most older homes. The beauty of solar power is that once the system is installed, electricity is essentially free. I don't know the lifetime of solar panels, but other than the storage batteries, which should be good for at least 1000 cycles, the rest of the system should last a lifetime with routine maintainence.


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## BB (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

My condolences jtr1962 regarding your power rates,

Regarding solar, here is one thread that listed some web sites with basic information doing solar.

CPF--How to sell solar thread

But you guys also get storms and cold weather. Co-Generation (natural gas or diesel generator with hot water to heat the home) could also be an alternative.

Another approach--which is sounds like you are already on the way on doing is to get as energy efficient as possible first--before going solar or whatever.

From what I have read, folks over the years have used 100 kW-Hrs/month as the point to aim for. If you are over that, the alternative energy systems are pretty big and expensive (if you are using batteries). For us, I could get to something like 170-200 kW-Hrs/month without trying very hard (newer refrigerator, CCFL lights, etc.). I even have an old electric meter hooked up to an electric cord that I could plug appliances into (such as the refrigerator) and see how much energy they consumed over a week or a month. For me, it was very enlightening (pun intended). The old refrigerator built in the 1970's or so was almost 1/2 my electric bill.

When you look at a goal of 100 kW-Hrs/month, you find that your average power load is only 139 watts (24 hrs/day, 30 days/month). All of a sudden, those 7 nightlights (running 7 watt bulbs 24 hours per day) and that 50 watt light bulb running in the back closet to keep the mold down is consuming 99 watts of that 138 watt budget (I converted to LED night lights and put the 50 watt bulb on a timer of an hour a day for my Mom and saved her almost $8.50/month alone. Also put some more CCFL's in her commonly used lights and had her turn on the ceiling mounted fan only when she needed it and knocked her power bill down by over 50%.

Unplugging unused wall transformers (wall warts), placing TV's, DVD players, VCRs--that aren't timed recording, etc. on power strips that you can turn off are other recommendations that I have seen from the conservations. Turning off the computer when you aren't using it (or using a laptop model which use less power) will also help.

I can go on and on--but you probably have done much of it already (double pane vinyl windows with low E glass were great on our house--plus it made the house much quieter by blocking outside noise). Whole house fan for the summer cooling, insulation, etc.

I kind of like see what other's energy usage is (kW-Hrs and Therms / month). It gives me a much better feeling on how I an doing on the conservation front. Of course, it is better to compare with those from your region (I don't need air-conditioning or that much heat here compared to other parts of the country).

Anyway, good luck and keep us informed on how you are doing.

-Bill


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## NewBie (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

For my area, this is how it breaks down:

250KWh and under is 0.0437 per KWh.
Above that 0.04807 per KWh.

Transmission Charge is 0.00324 per KWh.
Distribution Charge is 0.0272 per KWh.

Then a bunch of miscellaneous fees.

Overall 141.83/1797 KWh = 0.079 per KWh.


How much power do you all use per month?


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## jtr1962 (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Considering that me and everyone else here is home most of the time I'm not sure I could approach anything even close to 100 KW-hr/month but I agree this is certainly possible for a family that is only home for several hours per day. We use around 750 KW-hr/month during cooler months and about 1000 to 1200 KW-hr/month during warm months. Sure, the 25-year old refrigerator is a good place to start conserving but after that I don't know that much can be done without seriously affecting our lifestyle. For example, a lot of what I do involves a computer, and starting the machine ten times a day would probably affect reliability of the hard drives. I _do_ shut my monitor off whenever I'm away from the machine, however.

On the heating/cooling front, we have double-glazed windows (that made a huge difference in our heating bill). Regarding air conditioning, given the heat and humidity typical of New York summers it simply needs to be on from about early May through late October. Sure, I have energy efficient models only large enough to cool the room, but I find the recommended 78° uncomfortably hot and usually go 5° to 15° less than that depending upon how active I am. Some people tolerate heat very well, others don't. I think the childhood years I spent in a housing project with no air conditioning caused me to lose my tolerance for heat. Besides, air conditioning lets me avoid taking the one or two extra showers a day I might need to otherwise (not heating 20 or 30 gallons of hot water represents a huge energy savings).

As for other energy conservation measures, I'm getting in the habit of seeing whether or not it is really necessary to have so many wall warts plugged in. I'm finding that power strips are useful in that regard-when you're not using any of the devices you just turn them all off. On the lighting front, I don't use incandescent nightlights. We have one CFL in the kitchen which basically serves as a nightlight for the whole ground level, and I have a 1W luxeon on my workroom ceiling for downstairs (it's far brighter than any 7W nightlight I've ever seen). Virtually all the heavily used lighting is fluorescent (except the dining room chandelier), and most of it is the more efficient linear tubes. One thing I won't do is compromise on lighting levels. I like areas brightly lit, and that usually means about 100 to 150 watts of fluorescent lighting in a room, but with the option not to turn all of it on unless needed. Poor lighting will compromise my health, and in the long run that will cost more than any energy I might save.

Basically, my goal of going solar will be to let me use as much energy as I want to without worrying about the greenhouse or other pollution it causes, and also without being at the mercy of an electric company monopoly. When I do go solar I'm planning to install several KW of capacity. I may or may not use energy storage depending upon how costly it is. One thing I need to analyze are my usage patterns. If I can shift most of my usage to the times when the cells are generating the most power then I can avoid the need for more energy storage. If not, then I'll need to have in the neighborhood of 100 KW-hr of energy storage (to allow for three sunless days at my average energy usage of about 30 KW-hr/day). If I can get my average usage down without unduly compromising my lifestyle, then my storage needs will obviously be less.

Skimming over what you wrote in that thread I sometimes also feel there's a government conspiracy against alternative energy sources, especially those that produce "free" energy once installed, such as solar. If someone were to develop a solar cell which costs no more than conventional roofing and lasted 50 years, coupled with an energy storage system costing no more than an oil furnace and lasting equally long, the government would probably do everything it could to discredit it. After all, beyond the sales tax on the original purchase there would be no ongoing revenue stream such as exists with conventional means of generating power. A similar line of thought applies to solar electric cars. Such a vehicle is probably feasible using solar power to charge a storage battery. On an average day the car will generate as much power as it uses. Indeed, the concept is eminently more sensible than either hybrids (which still pollute), or fuel cells (which require money for the "fuel"). I have little doubt the government and big business both fear the very concept of free energy, but sooner or later the free market will demand such devices, and they will exist whether the government wants them to or not. Solar power is but one facet of this.

I found this article to be a very interesting theory on why new forms of "free" energy have been prevented from reaching the market.


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## paulr (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I don't get an electric bill (elec. is included in my rent) but I'll guess I use about 60 kwh a month. This is basically my laptop computer (40 watts, I leave it on 24/7), a 100 watt incandescent light on maybe 4-5 hours a day, and a couple other incan lights on an hour or so a day. Gas stove, no microwave, no TV and no fridge. A few other computers and stuff like the vacuum cleaner get powered up once in a while. I guess I could save a few watts by changing the lights to CFL. I'm too much of a nerd to even think of ever shutting off the computer.


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## Lurker (Jul 7, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Bob,

I would skip the CFLs in the outdoor motion-sensitive lights. If the lights are on continuously, then it would be worth while (but also cause unnecessary light pollution), but the motion-sensitive lights will not be on very much assuming you turn off the dim feature. Therefore they won't be using much electricity anyway. Also, the lights will be turning on and off quite a bit relative to their total run time, which is bad for fluorescent lights. They also won't have time to fully warm up before timing out, which will be especially noticeable in cold weather, when they may not even be half as bright during warm-up.

Outdoor motion-sensitive lighting is an application where incandescents are perfectly suited and every weakness of CFLs will be fully expressed. The ideal application for CFLs is in lights that burn for at least several continuous hours per day.


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## Lurker (Jul 7, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*IlluminatingBikr said:*
PlayboyJoeShmoe,

What are "CE"s? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he is using that as an abbreviation for the brand name of Commercial Electric. In my area this brand is sold at Home Depot.


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## Lurker (Jul 7, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage?*

[ QUOTE ]
*evan9162 said:*
I have those 40W globes in both of my bathrooms - 5 in the hallway one, but the worst is the master bath - 12! So hitting that switch causes 480 watts of power to be used! Replacing them all with CFL globes would be spendy... 

[/ QUOTE ]
That fixture sounds like a bit of a problem. 12 bare vanity globes! They shouldn't even make fixtures like that. It would be a lot cheaper to replace the fixture than to buy 12 CFLs and the probability of finding CFLs you would be happy with there is low. I tested a single 11w Sylvania vanity globe in my bathroom and it was very much brighter than the 40w light it replaced. Loading the whole fixture with those would be blinding. And you have to worry about the color rendition more in a vanity fixture. Thankfully your fixture doesn't get left on too much.

I have considered replacing the light switch in my bathroom with a motion-sensitive light switch to keep the light from being left on all the time, but I don't think it would keep the lights on when someone is in the shower. My wife isn't very accepting of changes like that and a black-out in the shower would be a major "issue."


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## pedalinbob (Jul 7, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*Lurker said:*
Bob,

I would skip the CFLs in the outdoor motion-sensitive lights. If the lights are on continuously, then it would be worth while (but also cause unnecessary light pollution), but the motion-sensitive lights will not be on very much assuming you turn off the dim feature. Therefore they won't be using much electricity anyway. Also, the lights will be turning on and off quite a bit relative to their total run time, which is bad for fluorescent lights. They also won't have time to fully warm up before timing out, which will be especially noticeable in cold weather, when they may not even be half as bright during warm-up.

Outdoor motion-sensitive lighting is an application where incandescents are perfectly suited and every weakness of CFLs will be fully expressed. The ideal application for CFLs is in lights that burn for at least several continuous hours per day. 

[/ QUOTE ]

understood.

i will stick with the incans, and use the CFL's indoors.

Bob


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 7, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Indeed I was using CE to mean Commercial Electric sold at my Home Depot.

Nothing new to report... although the 23W CFL I put in our office is BRIGHT! My sister asked if it was hotter since it is so much brighter, but we all know better!


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## Lurker (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I wanted to report on my latest purchase of the Sylvania 3-way CFL spiral bulb, which I have had for a month or two. This is the kind that goes in a reading lamp that has 3 brightness levels. This style of bulb has been a bit hard to find, but my Lowes Home Center is now carrying them. I forget the exact wattage, but it is supposed to replace a 30-70-100 bulb. I think most homes have a few of these 3 way lamp fixtures. You can certainly put a 1-way bulb in these fixtures, but it is nice to preserve the proper function of the fixture.

Overall it is a very good bulb and I would recommend it. I would prefer a bit more of a difference in brightness between the levels, but that is a minor quibble. It is probably more like 60-75-100 in brightness. The light is very white with good brightness and is not overly large. It will have fit problems only in the smallest reading lamps.

I think I paid about $9 for it, so it is not as affordable as most of the 1-way CFLs, but it makes a nice upgrade for a 3-way lamp that is used a lot.

One final comment is that this CFL operates as expected, cycling from off to low to medium to high as you rotate the switch on the lamp socket. One other CFL 3-way that I tried a couple of years ago (I don't remember the brand, maybe GE) cycled in the opposite direction and that made it sort of confusing to use.


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## Minjin (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

What would you guys recommend for in the garage for a simple screw in bulb? I'm renting a garage where I work on my cars and I really don't want to install any lighting. I'm looking for as much light as possible. I remember using those halo looking fluorescent lights in the past but after looking for 10 mins, I can't find any online. It seemed to work pretty well in spreading the light around.

Thanks.

Mark


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## jtr1962 (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Try one of these. Since you're after maximum light output I'd recommend the 6500K one because lumen for lumen higher color temperatures have a higher apparent brightness.


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## brickbat (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I understand not wanting to install fixtures in a rental, but you might consider investing in some decent 4' t8 twin tube fixtures - they're pretty straightforward to install, since they just hang by a couple of chains and you could use a screw-in adapter to plug them into your existing sockets. They do offer some advantages over CFLs, too - they'll deliver all their light downwards, where its most likely needed, and they take common, inexpensive bulbs. The lumen output of a 32W linear t8 is about 2500, so a twin tube fixture delivers almost as much light as a 300W incandescent bulb (which is typically about 6000). And like the screw-in giant CFLs, you could take them with you when you leave.

Also, think about the 300W incandescent. Sure, they're not as efficient as fluorescent, but since they only cost $2 each, you may come out ahead - do the math. 3 - 300W incandescents will cost about 9 cents/hour (with 10 cent/kW-hr energy rates), so the $100 you'd otherwise spend on 3 giant CFLs or 4 twin-tube fixtures would buy 1000 hours' worth of operation. If you only use them a few hours a week, it might make sense.

You probably already know this, but the best place for CFLs in the shop is in your trouble light. (or whatever they call those lights you use under the hood) I have a older fluorescent one (it has a preheat twin tube PL lamp with a magnetic ballast) and I really like it. It's plenty bright, doesn't break when its dropped and, best of all, it doesn't get hot so you don't burn yourself. And of course it uses only 13W of power...


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## DLG (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

Made a visit to Home Depot looking for the 7w CFLs that were said to replace the standard vanity globe. No luck. Web site wasn't much help either.

Looked @ Lowes. No luck.

Can someone here post a web-site / reference to where one can get these CFLs.

Thanks


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## jtr1962 (Jul 14, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

9W and 14W candelabra CFLs in both small and standard base are available here. These are available in both 9 and 14 watts in color temps of 2700K, 3500K, 4100K, and 5100K. Of course, I recommend the 5100K since that would make you look close to the way you do under sunlight. If you're looking for something that looks similar to a vanity globe try these (not available in small base).

These new cold-cathode CFLs are also available in many different shapes and sizes. They claim a 25000 hour life, which basically means no replacements for 15 years with average usage. However, so far wattages seem limited to 8W or less, efficiency seems to be less than regular CFLs, and most types are only available in that disgusting 2700K. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## jtr1962 (Jul 14, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

[ QUOTE ]
*brickbat said:*
I understand not wanting to install fixtures in a rental, but you might consider investing in some decent 4' t8 twin tube fixtures

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that recommendation. Home Depot has a nice shop light made by Commercial Electric with an electronic ballast for only $8. It can use 32W T-8s, as well as T-12s in 25W, 34W, and 40W. If you're not terribly concerned about color rendering you can buy a pair of 4100K T-8s at Home Depot for $4 (these are made by Philips and have a CRI of 78-which is acceptable for a garage). For $12 (less than half what the 85W CFL will cost) you'll have something that puts out around 5500 lumens (about the same as the 85W CFL) but uses only about 64W. As a bonus the tubes last for 20,000 hours versus 8,000, and only cost $4 to replace instead of $30 like the CFL. In the long run linear fixtures are way cheaper to run than CFLs in terms of both lamp replacement and electricity. I'm really surprised they're not universally used in homes now that all the drawbacks associated with fluorescent lighting have been overcome. The only drawback is the higher initial cost of the fixture, but then again a decent decorative incandescent fixture often costs the same or more.


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## DLG (Jul 14, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

jtr1962

Many thanks for the CFL links.


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## evan9162 (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I just got back from Home Depot and saw that they have a 6-pack of 14W (60W equivalent) Commercial Electric CF mini-spirals for $9.97 - which is less than $1.50 for each bulb.

Might want to check that out if you're looking for large numbers of 60W replacements.


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## h_nu (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I started using CFL's in the early 1980's with the Phillips SL18. I still have two of them and prefer the warm color to the newer Osram bulbs. I've got from 4w candelabra base to 30W bulbs. The living room and dining room lamps are on X-10 timers.

Some lamps snap back on with X-10 so I have to manually turn those lights on and off. Sheesh, dark ages!

I have an X-10 relay that turns on an outside lamp post and used to use CF's but for some reason they started to blow often (the first lasted a few years). The halogen lamp is now over a year old.

Lights in hallways, bathrooms, over the stove are halogen since they don't stay on long. My undercabinet lights are LED.


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## brickbat (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

IMHO X-10 and CFLs don't get along too well. I've noticed that even when turned off, an X-10 appliance module will source a small amount of current to its load. I think this is for the 'local control' feature of the X-10 modules. If you connect a CFL to an X-10 module and turn it off, you may observe, as I have, a periodic dim flashing in the CFL due to this low level of input current. This can't be a good thing. I've been able to disable the local control feature on a couple of appliance modules, and so far, they're working fine. And they don't turn themselves back on as you've reported.


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## bhvm (Jul 24, 2009)

*Re: How many of you use CFL\'s? and of what wattage*

I have'nt seen incandescent since all my life...
20 yrs old now...

We use CFL and FTs all over

2X 28W for hall
1X 11W for bathrooms
34W for outdoors
18W PL for garden
25W for Beds...

all are neutral white.

I will convert them all to LEDs once they get that cheap...


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## TaschenlampeMann (Jul 24, 2009)

Swapping for CFL's all the time. Mostly 40 watt. Started with the bathrooms that had lots of incans. I'm now looking at the LED spotlight replacements for the recessed ceiling light fixtures.


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