# My 100 Watt LED (pictures)



## Anders Hoveland (Sep 21, 2012)

Here are some pictures of the 100 Watt cool white LED I just got:

https://f1ccdd38-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...SRhmPbvoebHcKqgI9pgpAfInUn1Sk=&attredirects=0

https://f1ccdd38-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...DEQuTLpIhtjA4S7fhvxnK7e4h0uN4=&attredirects=0

https://f1ccdd38-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...RlttWRwcspdX0YXd7M0Nt_bJ-CQ1E=&attredirects=0

https://f1ccdd38-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...-gtgTerEJmn66sLIApIBO63Pea6mE=&attredirects=0

https://f1ccdd38-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...5PrxKMzsLba8yWZsWLt8ycqGQD6Mg=&attredirects=0

https://f1ccdd38-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...I5frVaFbm-nexabMhSaHaQd3X_A60=&attredirects=0

The LED power supply is 36 volts, while the cooling fan runs on 12 volts (and consumes 2.4 Watts).
Amazingly, I was able to find an LED chip, power supply, and heat sink cooling fan together for just under 100 USD- a really good price for a 100 Watt LED.


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## SemiMan (Sep 21, 2012)

Anders Hoveland said:


> Here are some pictures of the 100 Watt cool white LED I just got:
> 
> https://f1ccdd38-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...SRhmPbvoebHcKqgI9pgpAfInUn1Sk=&attredirects=0
> 
> ...



XTE 3 - watt are $1.10 in reasonable volumes, so 33 units would be $36. $13 for a the cooler with fan. $15 for the power supply ....

What sounds like a good deal and what are are often different. That is likely a poorly made in China LED. How many lumens? CRI?


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## Anders Hoveland (Sep 21, 2012)

SemiMan said:


> How many lumens? CRI?


The chip itself is rated 9000 - 10000 lumens. But for the chip together with the power supply they give a rating of only 6500 lumens. 
While this is a little confusing, perhaps it is not entirely surprising.
Angle of light output: 120 - 140 degrees. The chip consumes 3.2 Amps of current.
The CRI would not be any different from any other normal cool white LED, obviously.



SemiMan said:


> That is likely a poorly made in China LED.


Not sure. It was shipped from Hong Kong, and there was no brand name with the chip. But I am not sure if the factories in China are producing high power LED chips yet. I know many of the Chinese LED lamp manufacturers are reliant on buying the actual chips from Japan or the USA, because making LED chips requires the latest technology and higher quality control.

Just an added note, the picture below was taken in the _day time_, with the window open. The background appears so dark in the picture because the digital camera autoadjusted because of the light intensity coming from the LED.







My LED still does not put out quite as much light as this thing though:
http://technabob.com/blog/2012/01/30/insane-4sevens-xm18-flashlight/


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## blasterman (Sep 21, 2012)

Most of those large generic arrays are based on older Semi technology, and it seems half the chip fabs in China know how to make them. I've tested the 10/20 watt versions and they are in Luxeon III category in terms of efficacy. If you under drive them (less than 350mA per chip) efficacy creeps upwards, but most people want to drive them at 350mA per chip or more, which is easy to calculate given they are just an array / series of 1watt'ish LEDs. The trick is determining which way the array goes if it's not square. I'm seeing some newer ones based on Bridgelux chips (see reef thread), and these are the ones you want if you can find them. Much more efficient, but not nearly as common. Given they are arrays with all kinds of thermal and electrical interaction variables I'm actually scratching my head if the term 'efficacy' applies.

Most people want these for a cheap, high powered light sources, and if you have a beefy heat-sink they suit the purpose given they are often sold with dirt cheap bare box drivers. It's also much easier soldering one of these big beast than dealing with the mess of the equivelant lumens of 3-5watt chips. Same logic applies for large Bridgelux arrays. We all know the numbers for XM-Ls and XP-G's in countless threads, so math is not an issue.

Obviously total efficiency is a big problem with these chips, and at 100watts somebody is going to have to show me confirmed testing data that the chip can actually out-put more than 6,000 lumens because I simply don't believe it given my experience with the smaller versions. By comparison a Bridgelux CBXRA-56C5300 throws over 5,000 lumens at half the wattage and certainly better color. These Chinese arrays have really thin phosphors that have mediocre CRI that barely qualifies as CRI, but then again, people typically use them for compact utility light sources.


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## Anders Hoveland (Sep 22, 2012)

blasterman said:


> Obviously total efficiency is a big problem with these chips,


It's not just the chips. The power supply has only around an 85% efficiency.

The information I was able to find suggested that the efficiency for the 12v power supply for the cooling fan is only around 72%, which is probably even less since the power supply is being underdriven (I just happened to have an extra 12v 1A charger available to cut up).



blasterman said:


> These Chinese arrays have really thin phosphors


It does have a very thin phosphor coating, nearly translucent.



blasterman said:


> phosphors that have mediocre CRI that barely qualifies as CRI, but then again, people typically use them for compact utility light sources.


For typical cerium phosphor white LED's, CRI will vary in proportion only to the color temperature. "Quality" of the LED chip has nothing to do with it. If you want a "colder" (bluer) LED light color, it will have a lower CRI. My cool white LED chip is rated 6000 - 6500 K, which is bluer than a typical "cool white" LED. Another advantage of colder white LED's is higher efficiency because there is less phosphor.

After doing some more research, I think my LED chip was made by Epistar, based in Taiwan.
Taiwan has some fairly decent quality electronics now.


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## Anders Hoveland (Sep 22, 2012)

Apparently there is an *RGB* 100 Watt white LED chip on ebay. Obviously it has lower efficiency than blue-phosphor white LED's, as it is rated only 4000-5800 lumens.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1pc-100W-RG...646?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2574b35c8e


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## thenativediver (Sep 22, 2012)

I like the idea of what you made, as it was what I was investigating myself. 

The light kit I found , that I so far think is best is http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Dimmable-50W-Aquarium-led-light/903774_544024115.html

I was thinking of useing computer heat sink of some type also. See my post on 100w led 50white 50 blue.... 

I like this for ease of making it... soldering all those led's individually sounds like a really fun project that I just don't have the time for.... but I might make the time later if I cant find a better solution.

I really like the look of this heat sink, but I imagine it would tarnish really fast over my saltwater tanks... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118019

there are tons of heat sinks, just thinking how I could keep everything protected from water, salt, moisture...

How did you wire your fan ?


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## SemiMan (Sep 23, 2012)

Anders Hoveland said:


> It's not just the chips. The power supply has only around an 85% efficiency.
> 
> The information I was able to find suggested that the efficiency for the 12v power supply for the cooling fan is only around 72%, which is probably even less since the power supply is being underdriven (I just happened to have an extra 12v 1A charger available to cut up).
> 
> ...





The chips in your LED may have been made by Epistar, but Epistar did not make the packaged LED as they do not make these or packaged LEDs in general. They do not make white chips/die either, blue. Other companies buy their die and make leds from them.

CRI is impacted by phosphor thickness as it impacts the ratio of blue to phosphor which impacts CRI. What also matters is the wavelength of the blue which impacts phosphor conversion and again the ratio of blue to the phosphor color. Anders, you have to stop pulling stuff off the web and writing it as fact on CPF when you don't really understand what you are writing. If you knew what you were writing, you could call it a cerium doped YAG or YAG:Ce. It is not a "cerium phosphor".

You can get an 8000 lumen (peak) Bridgelux array, quantity 1 from Digikey for $47. Likey 7000 lumens when warm.


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## blasterman (Sep 23, 2012)

Epistar is the other one that's cited as the tech used in these kind of chips. I've given up trying to figure out who makes what given Bridgelux also seems to OEM their smaller chips, but the actual phosphor used seems to be guessed at by the factory. The third party royals I have with the Bridgelux name test out with very respectable numbers. The phosphors used though are an entirely different manner, and I've always suspected these recipes are the ones that guarded so closely by Cree and the other Wester Companies. Satistronics has the same big arrays and they list at 60-70 lumens per watt, which I suspect is pretty close.


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## Anders Hoveland (Jan 10, 2013)

thenativediver said:


> How did you wire your fan ?


The fan is 12 volts. I just happened to have a 500mA 12V little plug in charger laying around, and cut the wires. So this charger is actually plugged in to an extension cord, along with another plug that is wired to the LED power supply.
As for efficiency, a typical little charger like this is around 80% efficient. The main LED power supply is rated at >85% efficiency.


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## Anders Hoveland (May 23, 2013)

An update: After using this LED setup for several months as a garage lamp fixture, the light output has deteriorated to significantly less, and there is visible damage to many of the cells in the chip (some of them a now darker in coloration). So it appears either the chip, or possibly the power supply, were low quality. This is what I was afraid of. The fan on the heat sink continued to function.


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## bshanahan14rulz (May 24, 2013)

Try running it for a day or so outside in fresher air to see if it clears up? Sometimes, dark marks above the LED chips aren't actually burns, but rather vapor deposits from the surrounding environment, and you can let the deposits escape by running it in a cleaner environment for some time. If the chips are actually burnt, then I wonder maybe they didn't adhere the LED to the heatsink properly.

Anders, you ought to try a nicer LED array, since you already have the heatsink, fan, fan power, and (depending on testing) LED power supply. Blasterman plays with arrays a lot, perhaps see what he might suggest for an LED array with decent light quality. @ 100W, you might could afford to lose efficacy for nicer light, rather than cool white generic LED.


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## Harold_B (May 24, 2013)

bshanahan14rulz said:


> Try running it for a day or so outside in fresher air to see if it clears up? Sometimes, dark marks above the LED chips aren't actually burns, but rather vapor deposits from the surrounding environment, and you can let the deposits escape by running it in a cleaner environment for some time. If the chips are actually burnt, then I wonder maybe they didn't adhere the LED to the heatsink properly.
> 
> Anders, you ought to try a nicer LED array, since you already have the heatsink, fan, fan power, and (depending on testing) LED power supply. Blasterman plays with arrays a lot, perhaps see what he might suggest for an LED array with decent light quality. @ 100W, you might could afford to lose efficacy for nicer light, rather than cool white generic LED.



I think Cree has a white paper with a list of materials to avoid as far as exposure. The other possibility is that the silicone has a phenol additive to increase the index of refraction for higher initial output. Silicones with phenol are used for high output LEDs that are not intended to have a long life but are known to darken over a fairly short time. Without a close up photo it's impossible to be certain but the array it looks like an Epistar or a Citezen. Pretty sure I have one tucked away some place. 

With the nice heatsink a Bridglelux RS series array would work well. I've messed with those a little and they have some big arrays to choose from.


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## idleprocess (May 24, 2013)

I noticed the motorcycle tires and exhausts previously, but now I have to know - is that an SKS rifle in the background?


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## SemiMan (May 26, 2013)

Harold_B said:


> I think Cree has a white paper with a list of materials to avoid as far as exposure. The other possibility is that the silicone has a phenol additive to increase the index of refraction for higher initial output. Silicones with phenol are used for high output LEDs that are not intended to have a long life but are known to darken over a fairly short time. Without a close up photo it's impossible to be certain but the array it looks like an Epistar or a Citezen. Pretty sure I have one tucked away some place.
> 
> With the nice heatsink a Bridglelux RS series array would work well. I've messed with those a little and they have some big arrays to choose from.



Epistar does not make arrays ... or packaged LEDs for that matter. They make die. Cheap offshore suppliers often call their LEDs epistar LEDs, but really it is just the die.

Semiman


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## Harold_B (May 27, 2013)

SemiMan said:


> Epistar does not make arrays ... or packaged LEDs for that matter. They make die. Cheap offshore suppliers often call their LEDs epistar LEDs, but really it is just the die.
> 
> Semiman



True. I'm pretty sure Everlight used their die and Epistar owned a piece of Everlight but I haven't kept up on that relationship. None the less, for the OP my suggestion would still be the Bridgelux array.


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## cubleycat (May 29, 2013)

Anders Hoveland said:


> Here are some pictures of the 100 Watt cool white LED I just got:
> 
> https://f1ccdd38-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites...SRhmPbvoebHcKqgI9pgpAfInUn1Sk=&attredirects=0
> 
> ...


What the heck is that, looks like a flux capacitor out of a Delorean


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## RAS (Jun 8, 2013)

sorry, kinda new to this game --- Is it relatively simple to find these LED light chips in the right color spectrum? I believe I was looking for something in the 660nm range. I guess beyond that as many lumens as possible. It's for an at home garden that's supposed to have roughly 10,000 lumens per plants, and I have 6 plants. Has anyone on the boards done something like that? Custom LED light and ballast for a garden?


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## Harold_B (Jun 15, 2013)

RAS,
It would be best to start a separate thread to ask new questions. It is less likely you will get an answer when you tag onto another thread. 

Harold


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## SemiMan (Jun 16, 2013)

RAS said:


> sorry, kinda new to this game --- Is it relatively simple to find these LED light chips in the right color spectrum? I believe I was looking for something in the 660nm range. I guess beyond that as many lumens as possible. It's for an at home garden that's supposed to have roughly 10,000 lumens per plants, and I have 6 plants. Has anyone on the boards done something like that? Custom LED light and ballast for a garden?



6 plants huh ...... Home garden .....


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## tjones96761 (Jun 22, 2013)

So I'm new, and slow. What are the copper tubes? Do they have some kind of fluid in them? I've never seen LEDs that were anything except air cooled with an aluminum heat sink.


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## Harold_B (Jun 22, 2013)

Those are heat pipes. Often found in CPU coolers. http://www.heat-pipes.com/index.php?sectionid=4


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## AJ Botha (Jun 23, 2013)

Do you know how hot it gets? Seems like a cool idea to modify a CPU cooler for the LED.


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## Harold_B (Jun 23, 2013)

AJ Botha said:


> Do you know how hot it gets? Seems like a cool idea to modify a CPU cooler for the LED.



It depends on the LED(s) and the CPU cooler. We use coolers in the lab but not in products because they are typically too expensive. This is one of our lab set ups with four Luxeon M LEDs driven at 700mA and the cooler was hardly warm to the touch. http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j390/Harold_LF/image_zps8d9d188b.jpg


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