# Is XM-L still the brightest LED available in flashlights?



## och (Mar 16, 2012)

Or is there a new king? I have two XM-L flashlights and they are both incredible, but I'm just wondering if there's anything more powerful out there yet.


----------



## CarpentryHero (Mar 16, 2012)

Theres the SSt90 but they generate a lot of heat, ElectroLumens recently made an sst90 light, so did 4sevens and Olight


----------



## yifu (Mar 16, 2012)

The XML was never the brightest LED by any standard, by surface brightness, an overdriven XP-C would be double of that of the XM-L, by flux output, it is beaten by the SST50, SST90, which has about triple the output of the XM-L. And i haven't included the multi-dies yet...


----------



## Fireclaw18 (Mar 17, 2012)

XP-C has more surface brightness so is brighter for applications where you want a lot of throw in a small flashlight. However, because the die is so small and it can't be driven at as high a current it will produce far less total lumens than an XM-L.
SST-90 can produce significantly more lumens than an XM-L, but requires a lot more drive current so isn't suitable for a very small flashlight

XM-L is the most efficient LED in terms of lumens per watt at the 2-3 amp drive current range I think. This makes it the most commonly available LED for bright flashlights.

Many more recent flashlights have the XM-L U2. This higher binned XM-L is slightly brighter than the more typical XM-L T6


----------



## jorn (Mar 17, 2012)

yifu said:


> The XML was never the brightest LED by any standard, by surface brightness, an overdriven XP-C would be double of that of the XM-L, by flux output, it is beaten by the SST50, SST90, which has about triple the output of the XM-L. And i haven't included the multi-dies yet...


Yep, the xm-l was never the brightest.
The sst90 is a big led that needs lots of juice to shine. Not that practical in small flashlights (runtimes/heat). Hard to focus in a small reflector (floody, unless in a huge reflector), but way brighter than the xm-l.


----------



## peterharvey73 (Mar 17, 2012)

There is a newly released Luminus CST-90 emitter which can pump out up to 2700 lumens!
It has the same 3mm x 3mm square die size as the old SST-90 emitter.
It can be driven up to 13.5 amps, where the old SST-90 could only be driven up to 9 amps.

The CBT-90 version will be used in the new autumn released Nitecore TM20 Single CBT-90 which claims to throw up to 700 meters!
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?334781-Nitecore-TM15-and-TM20

Does anyone know much about these new Luminus line of emitters, and what sort of surface brightness it has to enable a 700 meter throw to ANSI FL-1 standards???


----------



## och (Mar 17, 2012)

Wow, I never even knew such high power emitters existed for flashlight use. I guess the bigger problem is battery, because you wont sustain juicing 13.5 amps out of a single 18650, right?

I also wonder, how come they don't use emitters like XML for generic purposes. I wanted to replace all my 10-20watt halogen bulbs with LED, and most of what you see on ebay is based on 5050 chips that emit very little light.


----------



## peterharvey73 (Mar 17, 2012)

Yes, so the TM20 uses 4x18650's...


----------



## TEEJ (Mar 17, 2012)

peterharvey73 said:


> Yes, so the TM20 uses 4x18650's...



Sweet!

I guess the carrier is wired to add the amps instead of the volts as much....that's a lot of amps.



2,700 emitter lumens...with a large head, that could be set up to throw more than 700 m.

My (DD) SR90 can light up a power transmission tower 800 meters away as it is...and its emitter might be 2,200 L or less.

If the head is smaller (The SR90 is 4" IIRC) than the SR90's, then it might throw less than it, but the beam would be broader.


----------



## aau007 (Mar 17, 2012)

Xml obviously does not produce the most lumens, so not the brightest.

It is, however very efficient if not the most efficient, only up to 3A at its 3.3 vF, producing about 100 lumens per watt. Therefore, at the limit, xml can produce up to 1000 led lumens max with about 10W of power.


----------



## funder (Mar 17, 2012)

TM20 use CBT90 instead of CST90 for higher surface brightness (more throw).


----------



## peterharvey73 (Mar 17, 2012)

Yes, keep in mind och that your term "brightness" refers to 2 separate components.
One component is the intensity of light measured in lumens per square meter or lux, which determines the longitudinal throw.
The other component is the total volume output of light measured in lumens, which is the intensity in lumens per square meter [or lux] multiplied by the lateral surface area of illumination in square meters; thus total lumens = lux x surface area; thus, even if the intensity is the same, the light that illuminates a wider surface area has more total output in lumens.

The XM-L emitter neither has the most surface brightness in lumens per square millimeter for maximum throw, nor does it have the most total lumen output count when both the intensity and the lateral surface area of illumination is taken into account.
However, like aau007 reminds above, it is one of the most energy efficient emitters around, and it's cheaper than the Luminus emitters too...


----------



## CarpentryHero (Mar 17, 2012)

Wow, thanks for the info on the CBT90


On a side note, the XML is popular because it's bright, efficient up to 3 amps and very affordable. 
1/4 the cost of an sst90


----------



## LG&M (Mar 18, 2012)

I think what the OP would like to know ( and so would I) is what is coming to replace the XM-L? Anything?


----------



## Edog006 (Aug 10, 2012)

So now it's August 2012. Any word on newer more efficient LEDs that can say produce 2000 lumens in a small EDC package!?!?!


----------



## windstrings (Mar 6, 2013)

Edog006 said:


> So now it's August 2012. Any word on newer more efficient LEDs that can say produce 2000 lumens in a small EDC package!?!?!



http://www.nitecore.com/productDetail.aspx?id=54


----------



## 270winchester (Mar 6, 2013)

windstrings said:


> http://www.nitecore.com/productDetail.aspx?id=54



You have a very different idea of what is EDC'able than a lot of people.


----------



## windstrings (Mar 6, 2013)

Problem we keep bumping up against is batteries... To go small, means limited battery capacity. Less heat dissipation... 

I'm totally blown away with the nitecore tm26 quadratic, but while turbo mode is 3500 lumens, it can only do it for almost 4 minutes? 

We need to have serious breakthrough in either batteries or led efficiency "or both". 
For the size, one needs to go to a Firefox 3 hid.... No more instant on, but great runtime at 4000 lumens. 

I too am looking for an led alternative that will match my SR90 with a smaller size.... 

Alan.. Sent with Tapatalk 2


----------



## Illum (Mar 6, 2013)

XML? heck no... it is the most practical one though. 

For brighter there's the SST-50, SST-90, ... CSM-360


----------



## windstrings (Mar 7, 2013)

270winchester said:


> You have a very different idea of what is EDC'able than a lot of people.



Ok, is this what your looking for "times 4?".. LOL!
http://www.nitecore.com/productDetail.aspx?id=75


----------

