# Home made triple P60s



## Itinifni (Dec 12, 2012)

I wanted a triple P60 drop in but wasn't willing to shell out the cash to buy one so I did the next best thing. This is how I built mine.

I started with a couple of 3 up XP-Gs (1 neutral, 1 warm), some 3/4" copper pipe, 3/4" copper rod, Carlco plain, tight optics, KD V2 drivers, 380ma bin 7135s and empty P60 pills.






I used a spring clamp to help keep my cut straight and cut the rod at about 13mm.





Square up the heat sink with a file and sand smooth.





File the LED side lip off the P60 pill and attach to the heat sink with AA.





Drill a hole through the center then cut the copper pipe to cover the heat sink and pill leaving a lip on the star side and sweat it on like a plumber.





Attach the star with AA.





To fill the space in the head next to the optic I cut the end off the P60 reflectors and attached it to the copper pipe via AA.





On to the driver, KD 8*7135 V2 with 6 extra 308ma chips added.









And that's it!





I like them so much I made two more, XP-G2 and Nichia 219.









Below, Nichia, Warm, Neutral and XP-G2, all on medium around 1.0A





Thanks for looking.


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## d337944 (Dec 12, 2012)

Wow! Thanks for the write up Infiniti ... excellent work there mate.:thumbsup:

Clever ideas with the piping and heatsink! Now if I only had the skills to do this myself ...


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## Match (Dec 13, 2012)

Very nice work, infiniti! Nice work on making your own by hand... it makes them a little more special.


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## Changchung (Dec 14, 2012)

Nice build...


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## jmpaul320 (Dec 14, 2012)

Very nice work!!


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## borrower (Dec 15, 2012)

Awesome work! This totally looks like something I can do. (Well, soldering the wires to the emitters might be a bit nerve-wracking.)

One question (that perhaps shows my ignorance)... were you concerned about the acid flux in the plumbing parts interacting in any way with the electronics?


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## Itinifni (Dec 16, 2012)

borrower said:


> Awesome work! This totally looks like something I can do. (Well, soldering the wires to the emitters might be a bit nerve-wracking.)
> 
> One question (that perhaps shows my ignorance)... were you concerned about the acid flux in the plumbing parts interacting in any way with the electronics?



You're right about bridging the star, it's a pain. The wires are so short and have to be just right so they don't interfere with the optic. For the Nichia (the last one I made) I used a 20mm parallel star from Illumination Supply. I had to reflow the LEDs on (my first time doing that), I was skeptical as to whether or not I would damage the LEDs but it worked fine. After that the wiring was much easier.

To tell you the truth I never even thought about flux damaging the driver, I just used what I had on hand. I did clean the heat sink after soldering the same was I clean sweat fittings when I'm doing plumbing work. I'll just have to see how they stand the test of time.


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## netprince (Dec 16, 2012)

This is a really cool build. How are the drop-ins handling the 5A? Also how snug are they in the hosts? Did you have to use any copper tape to help with thermal transfer? 

I have to admit, I kinda want to tryit... I bet that bar of copper wasn't cheap??


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## Mattaus (Dec 16, 2012)

I love these sorts of builds 

Well done!


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## Itinifni (Dec 17, 2012)

netprince said:


> This is a really cool build. How are the drop-ins handling the 5A? Also how snug are they in the hosts? Did you have to use any copper tape to help with thermal transfer?
> 
> I have to admit, I kinda want to tryit... I bet that bar of copper wasn't cheap??




The drop-ins handle the 5.0A (5.3 with the 18650 IMRs I got today) without any problem so far, I'm wondering how long the S/F switches will last though. They're only rated at 3A but I only run them on high for short times. Even at medium (1A) it's enough light for most uses.
3/4 id pipe fits the L2 perfectly, I can get 1-2 wraps of tin foil around and it's snug enough to hold the ground spring compressed. Heat seems to transfer very well, leave them on for 5 minutes un-touched and they're too hot to hold. Not too hot to touch but I have to shift it around a bit until the body gives up some of the heat to my hand.

As for the copper bar, most houses (around here anyway) have a nice, long, copper rod sticking in the ground connected to the braker panel... At least one in my neighbor hood no longer does!


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## thijsco19 (Dec 18, 2012)

Very nice! Love this kind of home-made-stuff .

But I have a question, can you make an side photo of this?


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## Itinifni (Dec 18, 2012)

Does this help?


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## Mattaus (Dec 18, 2012)

I wonder if having that cut down reflector increases the throw at all? Triples are VERY floody, even with the tight optics, so even a little bit of light reflected in the right direction may help...


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## Itinifni (Dec 18, 2012)

I don't think the reflector increases the throw at all. It does present an interesting patern when about a foot or two from the wall but it dissapears at any distance.


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## borrower (Dec 18, 2012)

netprince said:


> This is a really cool build. How are the drop-ins handling the 5A? Also how snug are they in the hosts? Did you have to use any copper tape to help with thermal transfer?
> 
> I have to admit, I kinda want to tryit... I bet that bar of copper wasn't cheap??



For what it's worth, my local metal dealer sold me about 2' of 3/4 rod for just under 20 bucks. (And as a bonus, it has a hole through the middle already. Not only can I run wire easily, I can connect it to my drill as I spin it against the grinding wheel.)


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## thijsco19 (Dec 19, 2012)

Itinifni said:


> Does this help?



YES, that's perfect thank you!:twothumbs
Very nice.


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## Lolaralph (Jan 22, 2013)

To the OP,
i'm curious, does a single cell provide enough power to go to 5.0+ amps, I've made a few triples for e series lights and was considering having them bored to accept 18650 cells but wasn't sure they would power these triples to over 4 amps, thanks


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## MattSPL (Jan 23, 2013)

Lolaralph said:


> To the OP,
> i'm curious, does a single cell provide enough power to go to 5.0+ amps, I've made a few triples for e series lights and was considering having them bored to accept 18650 cells but wasn't sure they would power these triples to over 4 amps, thanks



Enerpower+ 2900mAh/3C will do 7A, and its a protected Panasonic ncr18650 pd, so a very good cell. Some other unprotected cells will do 10 or even 20 Amps.


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## netprince (Jan 23, 2013)

When using a linear driver like this, you need to make sure your LEDs have a lower forward voltage (under load) than the battery voltage (also under load). Look at some battery reviews. Many have a graph of voltage vs current. When you draw 5A from a cell, its voltage will sag quite a bit. That voltage must still be higher than the LEDs VF at 5A. (or you wont get 5A)


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## Lolaralph (Jan 23, 2013)

netprince said:


> When using a linear driver like this, you need to make sure your LEDs have a lower forward voltage (under load) than the battery voltage (also under load). Look at some battery reviews. Many have a graph of voltage vs current. When you draw 5A from a cell, its voltage will sag quite a bit. That voltage must still be higher than the LEDs VF at 5A. (or you wont get 5A)



I think that is what I'm running into, I used three XP-Es on one triple, with one cell I'm barely getting 3.25 amps, if I use two LiFePo 3.0 v cells I can pull 4.35, but have about ten minutes of run time. Looks like the e2e is getting bored for 18mm cells.


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## netprince (Jan 23, 2013)

Lolaralph said:


> I think that is what I'm running into, I used three XP-Es on one triple, with one cell I'm barely getting 3.25 amps, if I use two LiFePo 3.0 v cells I can pull 4.35, but have about ten minutes of run time. Looks like the e2e is getting bored for 18mm cells.



Did you remove the reverse polarity protection diode from the driver? That should get you a little more voltage and therefore current. Just have to remember to never put the batteries in backwards.


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## Lolaralph (Jan 23, 2013)

netprince said:


> Did you remove the reverse polarity protection diode from the driver? That should get you a little more voltage and therefore current. Just have to remember to never put the batteries in backwards.



Could you describe where it's located, I'm hoping it's on the voltage input side as my triples are all assembled and I have no access to the other side, thanks for all the excellent information by the way


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## netprince (Jan 23, 2013)

I got my drivers from illumination supply. On mine the diode is right next to the +LED wire. I had to remove the diode, and then jump the solder points with the wire. (you can see it in his picture of the 2.8a driver)

I read about it here in the forum somewhere, might try searching for more info.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jan 23, 2013)

17670 cells are generally no-name cells. I think AW finds the best ones he can and gives them his seal of approval, but 18650 is much easier to find quality cells.

Sanyo used to make 16mm cells, but I think they are kind of old and may not even be capable of a 5A draw.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Common18650comparator.php < nifty comparator put together by CPF's favorite datalogger, HKJ.


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## Erzengel (Jan 23, 2013)

Lolaralph said:


> I think that is what I'm running into, I used three XP-Es on one triple, with one cell I'm barely getting 3.25 amps, if I use two LiFePo 3.0 v cells I can pull 4.35, but have about ten minutes of run time. Looks like the e2e is getting bored for 18mm cells.



The XP-E has a Vf of ca. 3.5V at a current of1A. This means You need about 3.65V to keep the light in regulation if You're using the popular 7135 linear regulator. Only IMR cells can keep the necessary voltage at a current of 5A for a few minutes. Xp-Gs or Nichia 219s will perform much better.


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## netprince (Jan 23, 2013)

You can see some 219 Vf info here:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?348171-Nichia-219-lumen-sphere-testing

I built a triple 219 and was suprised it wasn't a lower Vf. My triple XPG2 on the other hand, very nice.


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## Itinifni (Jan 24, 2013)

Lolaralph said:


> To the OP,
> i'm curious, does a single cell provide enough power to go to 5.0+ amps, I've made a few triples for e series lights and was considering having them bored to accept 18650 cells but wasn't sure they would power these triples to over 4 amps, thanks



My protected 18650s (AW) won't provide 5.0A though they're supposed to be capable of up to 5.9A. I've been told it is due to the type of driver I'm using.
I use AW IMR cells which have no problem at all.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jan 24, 2013)

Erzengel said:


> The XP-E has a Vf of ca. 3.5V at a current of1A. This means You need about 3.65V to keep the light in regulation if You're using the popular 7135 linear regulator. Only IMR cells can keep the necessary voltage at a current of 5A for a few minutes. Xp-Gs or Nichia 219s will perform much better.



Battery tech is changing. Right now, a panasonic NCR18650B, the 3400mAh one, will hold its voltage above 3.65V just about as long as an AW 1600mAh IMR when discharged at 5A. Both will stay in regulation, the IMR's will generally supply ~.1V more than the pana.

Check out the link above in my previous post, and play around with it. IMRs of lower capacity hold their voltage better, so for high performance cells, compare those with lower capacities against the cell in question.


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## DellSuperman (Apr 16, 2013)

Hi, great build of those triples!
Btw, how did you put the 3/4" copper rod over the heatsink?
You mentioned that both are 3/4" thick right?
It is after the portion that you drill a hole through the heatsink.
Thank you.


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## SteveoMiami (Apr 17, 2013)

How did you attach the optic to the star? Also I have a long copper rod that is 5/8" is there a way I could use this?


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## DellSuperman (Apr 25, 2013)

I used the same optics but the beam that i got is pretty triangular in shape. Any ideas why? 

The optics is sitting on the MCPCB & all my emitters are seated nice & flat on the MCPCB as well.. 

Btw, i couldn't find any copper or brass rod so I ended up using the stock P60 reflector as my base. Filled the reflector & pill with as much solder as it possibly can hold & sit the 20mm star with optics on it. 

It works well, brighter than my 3mA XM-L2 at 5m, just that the beam seem a lil weird. 
Oh, its hot too! 

JonK

Sent from my Awesome phone from somewhere in the mountains


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## Toaster79 (Apr 26, 2013)

My 2 cents 

Top: helmet light using 3xXPE, 10507, MaxFlex @ 1300ma
Middle: Standard P60 with MCE. Reflector used to be OP, but decided to polish it myself (turned out great)
Bottom: Tripple P60 with 3p 219 and 1400mA driver with three additional 7135 running at 2570mA

The tripple is a press fit for a Solarforce L2P, all the parts of the module are interchangeable.


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## DellSuperman (Apr 26, 2013)

Wow, nice triple you've got there. 
Whats the housing? 

** My first DIY triple





Left is my work light, L2N XM-L 1.4mA
Middle, Surefire C2 Triple XP-G2 4.2mA
Right, my current EDC Surefire G2 Malkoff M61 WL

JonK

Sent from my Awesome phone from somewhere in the mountains


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## DellSuperman (Apr 28, 2013)

I managed to make a triple XG-G2 using a normal P60 reflector & pill.
Here are my steps...

1) Fill reflector with solder & file the top so that 20mm star can sit nicely on it.
The optic when seated is level with the top of reflector.
Drill a hole through the middle for the wires.
Fujik thermal compound added between the solder cone & the reflector to hold it in place & also remove any air holes.





2) Fill up pill with solder as well, to increase thermal mass as much as possible.
Driver side || Emitter side

*Note, because the star is a parallel setup, so only 2 wires are required.
Both wires go into 1 of the hold in the pill so that I can still screw the pill on the reflector.








3) Driver of choice: 8 + 4 * 7135, total 4.2mA
I applied a small amount of Fujik in between the 2 chips to help hold them better.
Added a bare copper wire around the pill to improve thermal pathway to the body.





4) Applied Fujik thermal compound (because i dont have AA) before sitting the star & optic.





Beam shot:
I am not sure why the beam turns out to be triangular in shape.
This is taken from a phone, so pardon the image quality.





I used a DC power supply to run it at 100% & it took less than 2 mins before the current starts dropping from the 4.2mA.
I guess the thermal mass of solder is just not the same as copper/brass.

I am in the process of getting brass/copper as the base of my next triple.


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## netprince (Apr 29, 2013)

DellSuperman said:


> I used the same optics but the beam that i got is pretty triangular in shape. Any ideas why?



I noticed this on my build, I'm not sure why it does that either?


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## DellSuperman (Apr 29, 2013)

netprince said:


> I noticed this on my build, I'm not sure why it does that either?



I have a beam shot in a post, is it the same with yours? 

- JonK


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## Itinifni (Apr 30, 2013)

What your seeing is the spill from three emitters off-center in a single reflector. All of my triples show the same beam patern. It's most noticable on a white wall with the first two I made, I left the plating on the reflector alone on those. With the Nichia I used steel wool to strip the chrome off leaving a brass (or nickle) finish, the patern is less noticable. On the XP-G2 I painted the reflector red, the patern is almost non-existant. I think if it were painted flat black you wouldn't see it at all.

If it were a quad I bet you would get a square spill patern.


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## MosesM (Apr 30, 2013)

Itinifni is probably right, it's the reflector that's messing with the optic, 'cause i've never seen that shape of beam on my triple optics which are just sitting on top of the star and not surrounded by a reflector. Hope that makes sense?


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## DellSuperman (Apr 30, 2013)

But i have sanded the glossy surface off the reflector, leaving only the bare metal finish. 

Anyways, i think i can live with that. 
Anything more than 5m, the mysterious triangular beam isn't visible anymore. Haha.. 

- JonK


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## Toaster79 (May 1, 2013)

DellSuperman said:


> Wow, nice triple you've got there.
> Whats the housing?



Made both tripples myself. Turned on a lathe.


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## Mattaus (May 1, 2013)

netprince said:


> I noticed this on my build, I'm not sure why it does that either?



Its also because of the die size and LED dome changes between the XPG and XPG2 emitters. The triangle is almost non-existant on the original emitters and that's because the carclo optics are not designed for the XPG2s. They can be used, and they do work, but they're not ideal.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## DellSuperman (May 1, 2013)

Like TS, i got the hang of it & made another triple, this time a Nichia 219. 

I now understand the craze of the 219, after experiencing it myself.

- JonK


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## Itinifni (May 15, 2013)

I made another 219 triple a couple of weeks ago. This time in a cut down MM with a NANJG 7134*4 driver with 4 extra 7135s on the LED side. I was going to cut it down for a 14500 but went with a 14650 instead. I kind of like the slightly larger size.

The problem is now I need to do it again with XP-G2s, have the host, driver and MCPCB, just need to get the emiters and optic.


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