# FENIX HP10 (NEW HEADLAMP !?)



## kameleont

Hello everyone! 

This is my first post, so please be gentle with me .

I didn´t find any posts of the new fenix headlamp "HP10" so I thought to write about it. 

Here in Finland we have a outdoor shop "partioaitta.fi" and in it´s new summer catalogue there is a picture and some specs of the new fenix headlamp HP10 (page 44-45).

Here is summarized translation of the specs:
Fenix HP10
225 lumes 
Digitally regulated -constant luminosity
Cree XR-E LED Q5 lamp
Light throw over 150 metres
Four outputs: 4/50/120/225 lumes
4 AA batteries (behind the head in a battery pack)
IPX 8

Price: 69 €

Sounds pretty good ! I don't know when It can be bought but I will buy it as soon as it's available.


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## ToTo

sounds great :O

http://www.e-julkaisu.fi/partioaitta/2009/
thats the catalogue online on page 44 and 45 you find the pic and the specs in fin

i want more infos


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## kameleont

Thanks ToTo ! Image inserted.


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## clg0159

Nice find!


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## Jarzaa

I think it will be officially announced pretty soon. 
This finnish fenix store has a note on their headlamp page that the headlamp is coming in few weeks. http://www.fenixvalaisimet.fi/fotsavalaisimet.htm


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## Marduke

Finally!!

I eagerly await details.


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## Haz

woo..hoo finally a headlamp by Fenix


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## Oddjob

Nice find!

Sounds great but I was hoping for a single cell headlamp. I still anxiously await the reviews.


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## Yucca Patrol

=Looks good. I've been waiting and waiting for this to come along!

I gave up when they did their headlamp survey and the result was a headband that could hold a flashlight, so it is very nice to see that the headlamp has actually been made.

As a caver, the only thing I immediately see missing is a brightness level between 5 and 50 lumens. A level somewhere between 15-30 lumens would be ideal for more confined spaces and allow a caver to really extend the battery life.

Nonetheless, I am excited and will anxiously await more details.


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## Woods Walker

There goes more money. :mecry: :twothumbs


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## Lightcrazycanuck

Excellent!!!!!!!:twothumbs:twothumbs


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## StandardBattery

*Excellent First Post!*

and :welcome:


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## Burgess

to Kameleont --


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !


:welcome:



Thank you for the great info ! ! !


:goodjob::thanks:

_


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## f22shift

Oddjob said:


> Nice find!
> 
> Sounds great but I was hoping for a single cell headlamp. I still anxiously await the reviews.


 

same. i dunno. seems sort of bland. nothing innovative. it looks like a fenix flashlight head mounted to a flat part wired to a 4aa holder.
if that head unscrewed from the base and can be used with a normal holder, that would be innovative. 

pros would be the fenix efficiency.


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## Marduke

f22shift said:


> same. i dunno. seems sort of bland. nothing innovative. it looks like a fenix flashlight head mounted to a flat part wired to a 4aa holder.
> if that head unscrewed from the base and can be used with a normal holder, that would be innovative.
> 
> pros would be the fenix efficiency.



But a high end headlamp >200lms <$100 is something quite interesting in the headlamp world.


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## nzbazza

Oddjob said:


> Nice find!
> 
> Sounds great but I was hoping for a single cell headlamp. I still anxiously await the reviews.



The big +1 on that!

With 4AA batteries, the HP10 is competing against the likes of of the PT Apex, Petzl Myo XP/RXP and BD Icon, and based on the output levels alone the Fenix will smoke anything this side of a Petzl Ultra. Traditionally Fenix produce very efficient circuits so guessing at the runtimes of 2hr @ 225lm, 4hr @ 120lm, 13hr @ 50lm, and 150hr @ 4lm, 

Hopefully if this headlamp model takes off, they may look at releasing another model to take on the likes of the PT Eos-rebel, BD Spot and Petzl Tikka XP and Zebralight.

Here's hoping Fenix will send a few out for testing and review... Hey Fenix, I've got some good ideas for testing one of these headlamps how about sending one my way...


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## f22shift

Marduke said:


> But a high end headlamp >200lms <$100 is something quite interesting in the headlamp world.


 
yeah. i see your point. 


i probably wouldn't get one because of the head weight unless they made a belt back. but anyway i hope it does well and they choose to expand their headlamp line.


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## adirondackdestroyer

I was starting to think that a Fenix headlamp was becoming vaporware, and I'm thrilled to find out that it will actually exist! 
Looks like a great product. Can't wait for the reviews to start popping up.


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## 276

sweet!!!


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## jirik_cz

nzbazza said:


> Traditionally Fenix produce very efficient circuits so guessing at the runtimes of 2hr @ 225lm, 4hr @ 120lm, 13hr @ 50lm, and 150hr @ 4lm,
> .



Runtimes with 4AA should be longer. My guess
[email protected] 225lm, [email protected] 120lm, [email protected] 50lm, [email protected] 4lm


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## Barrie

at last a headlight with good power at a reasonable price wonder if they will do a 2x cr123 :thinking: i think i need to sweet talk my good lady:naughty:


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## jzmtl

I'd like to see a remote battery pack, 4AA on back of head is pretty heavy if you move around with it. Even 18650 on forehead can bounce up and down. I've dumped my APEX and H60, have an APEX Extreme on order.


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## PhantomPhoton

jzmtl said:


> I'd like to see a remote battery pack, 4AA on back of head is pretty heavy if you move around with it. Even 18650 on forehead can bounce up and down. I've dumped my APEX and H60, have an APEX Extreme on order.



I agree, Battery weight is even worse when using a helmet, as it sits up even higher. Though I'll admit I'm just glad to see someone else getting into the headlamp market.


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## Mr Floppy

69 euro, thats 96 USD, which is over 120 AUD. Ouch. 

Are there any extra tariffs in Finland to bring it to that price?


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## rhg84

That would be awesome for mountain biking at night. I would definitely jump on one of those at that price, cycling specific lights are just so overpriced.


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## kameleont

Mr Floppy said:


> 69 euro, thats 96 USD, which is over 120 AUD. Ouch.
> 
> Are there any extra tariffs in Finland to bring it to that price?


 

Finland is full of tariffs and taxes! :mecry:

Usually it goes like this (unfortunately):
Finland 69 €
USA 69 $ 

That's why I usually order lights from USA.


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## capo

rhg84 said:


> That would be awesome for mountain biking at night. I would definitely jump on one of those at that price, cycling specific lights are just so overpriced.


 

cheap light for cycling (some copy from lupine tesla):

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.25149


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## Barrie

do we know if this light is for real 
i have searched the net and cannot find it listed anywhere and there is no mention of it on fenix website
i sent a email to the fenix dealer i bought my other fenix lights from here in the UK and he replied saying he knows nothing about this light


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## ToTo

the site seems to be quit trustable
and if its even printed in the catalogue it cant be a fake at all.


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## MichaelW

Where is the neutral-white version?
and/or warm-white.


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## Marduke

MichaelW said:


> Where is the neutral-white version?
> and/or warm-white.



Where do you see that such a version even exists?


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## MichaelW

Marduke said:


> Where do you see that such a version even exists?



I didn't. It was more of an open question to Fenix.
I don't want anymore cool-white based LED lamps.
So seeing as Cree doesn't have a Q5 XR-E neutral or warm LED [yet] I inferred that it is cool white.


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## Bobpuvel

That's just about the perfect design! I'm not too fond of the sidways strap thing for their headband for the flashlights.


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## Fabio

I think it's fake!
Look the Fenix Headband image.
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/productImage.aspx?pid=6641

The straps is the same! Just with a new "light" and "battery case".
And the edit image is not so good!


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## wapkil

Fabio said:


> I think it's fake!
> Look the Fenix Headband image.
> http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/productImage.aspx?pid=6641
> 
> The straps is the same! Just with a new "light" and "battery case".
> And the edit image is not so good!



Hmm, interesting find. The pictures indeed look identical. It would be natural for Fenix to use the same headband but on two separate picture the headband would have to look different. Maybe instead of taking real pictures someone (the dealer?) decided to photoshop it but the light still exists. Well, hope dies last, they say :candle:


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## Barrie

i am not convinced this light is real if it was ready to go on sale surly fenix would want people to know about it 
on the other hand i hope i am wrong i really would like a TK10 for my head:naughty:


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## readyme

Of course Fenix would use a headband they have already designed...but the 2 pictures are not close enough to have been photoshoped.


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## Flashfirstask?later

readyme said:


> Of course Fenix would use a headband they have already designed...but the 2 pictures are not close enough to have been photoshoped.


Well then it is a pretty interesting coincidence the bands seem to be of the exact same form shapes and only different on the front and back part. The back part seemed to be shortened a bit to fit in a battery pack more fluidly and the front headlamp looks like it was from a picture taken from a different angel. The Uutuus! looks to be strategically placed to cover the change of the top band on back due battery pack being in different position. The band on the bottom of side bands looks like an attempt to get rid of the shiny reflection. Other then this it does not look the same


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## Jagge

Partioaitta is well know and respectable shop, it is sort of leading scout/outdoor equipment store in Finland. That catalog link can be found at Partioaitta's front web page. Hard to believe someone has hacked the site and added a fake headlamp to their catalog.


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## StandardBattery

The HP10 is a real Fenix concept/plan, if not yet a product. The picture could be a mockup, that's not uncommon. If it does not die in R&D before it becomes a real product, we'll see it one day. 

Fenix will announce it when there is a manufacturing plan. Until we have some rough release date it's not really a good idea to count on it. It's nice to know they are trying to make a real headlamp.

At least when they let the cat out of the bag we won't have to wait 3 years for it, like some other companies.


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## Martin SH

I have spoken to a UK dealer and he has said they are waiting for a delivery sooner rather than later..... Looks like it's not vapour wear.

Can't wait!


Martin


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## [email protected]

Fabio said:


> I think it's fake!
> Look the Fenix Headband image.
> http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/productImage.aspx?pid=6641
> 
> The straps is the same! Just with a new "light" and "battery case".
> And the edit image is not so good!


Hi Guys, :wave:
It's not a fake! :devil:


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## pipspeak

nice... but I really hope the battery pack is detachable. Makes such a powerful headlamp somewhat less useful if you have to strap 4 AA batteries to your head as well. That's not a light load.


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## StandardBattery

[email protected] said:


> Hi Guys, :wave:
> It's not a fake! :devil:


 
Ya we already established that, how about a shipping date?


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## [email protected]

StandardBattery said:


> Ya we already established that, how about a shipping date?


When we know for sure we'll add a notice on our website. I'm sure you'll see a thread in the Market Place about the same time.


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## Corvette6769

I am surprised given the July or August release date, that it won't have the new 345-lumen Cree XLamp XP-G LED (at only 3.5mm x 3.5mm, the smaller XP-G is rated 139 lumens per watt at 350 mA and driven at 1 A, the XP-G produces 345 lumens, which is 37 percent brighter and 53 percent more efficient than the brightest XR-E LED), or at least a Cree XLamp X*P*-E Premium R3.

4 AA batteries seems to be a less than optimal power source too.


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## Marko

"I have seen THE Light"! :twothumbs

Here is some photos of the prototype, CPF Exlusive. 

















These pictures are not fakes, since I took them myself. :nana:


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## Barrie

:twothumbs Marko


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## Marduke

4xAA is the ideal power source for a hard use headlamp.


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## MichaelW

Do you think that this is a parallel-series arrangement? [like the TK40]


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## Marduke

I highly doubt it. It is most likely series only with a buck circuit. That would be much more efficient.


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## jzmtl

Marko said:


> "I have seen THE Light"! :twothumbs
> 
> Here is some photos of the prototype, CPF Exlusive.
> 
> 
> These pictures are not fakes, since I took them myself. :nana:



So how does it work?


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## Marko

jzmtl said:


> So how does it work?



Its a bit too early to say much, since it was a prototype, and lens will probably be different at the version that comes for sale. The switch on the top is for on/off, and the another is for level adjustment. There is a 'smart memory', so it remembers the last level which was used before switching off. Battery case was very solid, but I don't actually know if it is final version either.

Anyway it looks very nice, and I'll definitely buy it when available. 

EDIT:  lens would probably be the same, but reflector may change.


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## Marduke

Was it a one size fits all beam, or was there an option to make it floody?


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## Marko

Marduke said:


> Was it a one size fits all beam, or was there an option to make it floody?



Proto was with fixed beam.


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## jzmtl

Marko said:


> Its a bit too early to say much, since it was a prototype, and lens will probably be different at the version that comes for sale. The switch on the top is for on/off, and the another is for level adjustment. There is a 'smart memory', so it remembers the last level which was used before switching off. Battery case was very solid, but I don't actually know if it is final version either.
> 
> Anyway it looks very nice, and I'll definitely buy it when available.
> 
> EDIT:  lens would probably be the same, but reflector may change.



I hope it doesn't come with a memory. While it's nice on paper it's not in practice, never know which level it's going to come on at.


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## Lightcrazycanuck

Nice job Marco.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

You are the altimate photoshopper.LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Woods Walker

Marduke said:


> 4xAA is the ideal power source for a hard use headlamp.


 
Yea I like the AA battery type for a headlamp. The 4xAA can be a bit much for around camp as my the Apex is however when walking on the trail or pulling the pulk it is just fine. Also I use the Zebralight for camp as it is worth the small extra pack weight. Guessing the fins are a heat sink. What do you think on this?

I would however prefer if the LED was a warmer tint Q5 (WD? I am no expert on LEDs) or a Q3-5A. For me this is more of an issue with a headlamp but like warmer tints in flashlights too.

Edit.

Also would like a mix of flood and throw like the L2D but with a bit more flood.


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## Marko

Woods Walker said:


> Also would like a mix of flood and throw like the L2D but with a bit more flood.



If I remember correctly, there should be some kind of removable frosted lens (for HP10) for better flood. 

More pics, sorry about the poor quality, I was using mobile phone for pictures.


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## StandardBattery

Lightcrazycanuck said:


> You are the altimate photoshopper.LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!


:laughing::laughing:



Marko said:


> More pics, sorry about the poor quality, I was using mobile phone for pictures.


 
Those are *great quality* for the max size allowed on CPF, taken at a trade show.

Thanks!


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## Helmut.G

Marko said:


> If I remember correctly, there should be some kind of removable frosted lens (for HP10) for better flood.


That's good to hear.


Marko said:


> More pics, sorry about the poor quality, I was using mobile phone for pictures.


The pics are excellent for a mobile phone camera :goodjob:

Now they only have to use one of those XR-Gs for like R5 neutral white :devil: The bigger chip will lower the throw but a floody headlamp is better anyway IMHO.


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## jhc37013

Thanks for hose pics Marko their very nice. I think it looks pretty cool.

Wouldn't it be nice if it had a interchangeable battery pack.

A 4xAA or 2xCr123, I guess thats just a dream though.


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## Barrie

that's what i am hopeing for the the ability to us AAs or CR123s would be a complete winner for me
and make it the main light that i would use suppose we will have to wait and see what is offered


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## Mark620

I would like it to use 2X18650's


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## 2jzpower

can i has one????

Well, anyway I hope the beam is not too narrow to hurt night vision and not too floody to the point you can't see down a trail.


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## Linger

Thank-you for the pics!

They are great, much appreciation.


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## vio765

*Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

ok, sorry aboot my other thread. now, are there any updates regarding the feNIX headlamp?


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## bgiddins

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

Are Fenix bringing out a headlamp? I haven't logged into CPF for a few months so I may have missed it.

Any specs? Or is it just speculation at this time?


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## vio765

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

goto PTS-Flashlights.com and check out some preliminary stats. looks good, but i am hoping for a delay so they can get the CREE XR-G emitter. i would be willing to wait until the cold weather arrives if it had that emitter.


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## Tohuwabohu

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*



vio765 said:


> goto PTS-Flashlights.com and check out some preliminary stats. looks good, ...


Must be made of unobtanium:






You can find the full specification and more images at qualityflashlights.co.uk.


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## gem

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*



Tohuwabohu said:


> Must be made of unobtanium:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can find the full specification and more images at qualityflashlights.co.uk.


Very nice looking headlamp. Gud all around lumens from low to high of 225 L.
Ashame they don't use rcr123 or even 18650's for much longer light.


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## Woods Walker

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

*Lighting mode: 7 lumen (210hrs) - > 50 lumen (22hrs) -> 120 lumen (7.5hrs) - > 225 lumen (2,5hrs) *


Looks like they added a low mode.:twothumbs


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## qtaco

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

Has the TK12 been spotted before? Looks like a 'tactical' headlamp, and has 3 different groups of modes: Outdoor, Camping, and Hunting. The only one detailed is 'Hunting mode': strobe, turbo, and user defined with mode memory, but I assume one of the other mode groups will be the same as the HP10.

https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=1771

The HP10 was also added to fenix-store.com today: 
https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=1774


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## Tohuwabohu

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*



qtaco said:


> Has the TK12 been spotted before? Looks like a 'tactical' headlamp, and has 3 different groups of modes: Outdoor, Camping, and Hunting. The only one detailed is 'Hunting mode': strobe, turbo, and user defined with mode memory, but I assume one of the other mode groups will be the same as the HP10.
> 
> https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=1771


The TK12 is not a headlamp.
It is a new member of the TK series.
You can find some info here


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## qtaco

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

Thanks for the clarification.


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## Woods Walker

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

Top posts shows the mix up. Anyways I want this headlamp.


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## shimon ezra

*new fenix headlamp hp 10*

http://www.thephotonshop.co.uk/page4.htm

seems like very good headlamp 
wating for sombody review it


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## vio765

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

you guys are on top of this! wow! i found a fine lamp from DiNotte that I am going with for now. but the Fenix is a great price. i may have to get both! i have the "old" fenix headstrap (which is a joke in my opinion) that was my car headlamp. My princeton tec Apex was my primary camping headlamp (soon to be my car headlamp), and the expected DiNotte headlamp will be my primary. any ideas on what i could use the new Fenix headlamp for?


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## Yucca Patrol

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

Wow! It looks like this headlamp is actually coming down the pipeline.


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## Marduke

*Re: new fenix headlamp hp 10*

Already a lengthy thread on this light...


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## lebox97

*Re: new fenix headlamp hp 10*

here is 2 threads on it
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=236442

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=232136

and, :welcome:


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## shimon ezra

*Re: new fenix headlamp hp 10*

oops didnt see it sorry
and thank you


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## bgiddins

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

Cool - looks like a nice first headlamp from Fenix, but I agree with some of the other posters, I would like to see a smaller model, something to replace say my Tikka XP with 1 or 2 AAs. If I can replace that, I will have standardised almost everything on AA.


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## strinq

*Re: Are there any updates on the feNIX headlamp?*

The 4 AA's are a little bit of a discouragement to me...


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## ninjaboigt

pretty cool, but like many have expressed, i wish it was a single cell. maybe a single cell version will be released later on...


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## Woods Walker

4XAA is just the ticket for me. I got a bunch of smaller headlamps but only an older APEX using this setup. The lumens and regulated runtimes are very nice on this. Guessing if these sell they would make a single cell or something else in the future.


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## MichaelW

I wonder if that 3 minute timeout is fixed, or somewhat temperature dependent?


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## Marduke

MichaelW said:


> I wonder if that 3 minute timeout is fixed, or somewhat temperature dependent?




Huh?


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## davidt1

Shouldn't the battery pack go on the top band so you can wear the light while laying down? With the battery in the back design, it seems you can't rest your head against anything while wearing it. Intelligent design? Me think not.


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## MichaelW

*ultra powerful boost mode that delivers a 120 metre beam for 3 minutes before auto switching to 120 lumen high mode.

*Lighting mode - 7 lumens (210 hrs) - 50 lumens (22 hrs) - 120 lumens (7.5 hrs) - 225 lumens (total 2.5 hrs, 3 min per use)

*Overheat protection system: The lamp returns to 120 lumens high mode after 3 minutes continuous lighting in Turbo mode 

^- Overheat protecting system, the lamp goes back to the high output after 3 minutes continious lighting on Turbo mode 

Is that three minutes fixed? because at 0F, the LED might not overheat, whereas at 100F it might overheat in two minutes.
I wonder if the voltage of the alkalines would start dropping off after three minutes?


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## Woods Walker

Gotta think that the name Thermal shut off would imply heat is the factor but don't know. It could be on a timer. I have camped in below -20f and can't see anything overheating. But I have very limited knowledge of electronics compared to some others on CPF.


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## Woods Walker

davidt1 said:


> Shouldn't the battery pack go on the top band so you can wear the light while laying down? With the battery in the back design, it seems you can't rest your head against anything while wearing it. Intelligent design? Me think not.


 
No that would make it uncomfortable and unstable. My Apex uses a battery pack on the back too. Comes to think of it this is standard with other headlamps in this class. Guessing for a good reason.


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## Marduke

davidt1 said:


> Shouldn't the battery pack go on the top band so you can wear the light while laying down? With the battery in the back design, it seems you can't rest your head against anything while wearing it. Intelligent design? Me think not.



if it was anywhere else the light would be extremely unbalanced. Also, battery pack on the rear in no way inhibits working on your back, in fact it helps keep other pokey (and possibly rusty) things from digging into your scalp.


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## pipspeak

I'm also not a great fan of having 4AAs strapped to my head but the photos look like the battery pack can be taken off the headband, which suggests it would also not be hard to turn it into a waist pack. The coiled wire from the lamp assembly to the battery pack also looks like it can be unclipped from the band and the wire itself might even be long enough to at least stretch to a pocket, in which case moveing the battery pack would be easier still. If Fenix offered that converting option as standard then I'd be all over this light.


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## offroadcmpr

I think I am the only one here that likes the 4 AA batteries. I think it is probably because I want to use it for caving and mine exploring, in which case I am wearing a helmet so the weight is not as much of a concern. 

It seems like the only other light that competes with this is the PT Apex.

I actually like that it has 4AAs instead of 3 because it makes charging easier.

pipspeak - That would be really nice if they had a belt option. My problem is that I am too tall so the cable is not long enough for me.


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## MichaelW

With 4 AAs and the output levels as chosen, you can run high on alkalines, you can run medium on 'heavy duty', and low on zinc-carbon.

Not that you would, but you could.


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## R Lewis

I'm excited about this one. Placed a Pre-Order with 4S's yesterday. Supposed to ship July 31st.


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## Yucca Patrol

I pre-ordered one too. If it is as good as their flashlights, this will be the nicest affordable headlamp to date.


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## DirtyBird

Pretty excited about this one. I've had enough time to:
A) Get excited about the SureFire Saint
B) Get heart broken about the Saint's continued failure to exist.
C) Find out about the HP10 and decide to go for one.
D) Question my decision, only to find the Saint delayed again.
E) Decide again to get an HP10.

The best part is, I'll have enough time before the Saint actually surfaces that (yet) another headlamp will seem like a sound decision.


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## sampson2269

Pre ordered one today also from fenix Canada for 66 shipped cant wait.


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## GrnXnham

Marduke said:


> if it was anywhere else the light would be extremely unbalanced. Also, battery pack on the rear in no way inhibits working on your back, in fact it helps keep other pokey (and possibly rusty) things from digging into your scalp.



Agree here.

I use my PT Apex all the time, and when I am working on the car and laying on my back I sometimes put the full weight of my head on the battery pack when I am resting my head on the garage floor. The box provides a small barrier between my head and the ground. It supports the weight of my head fine. Hopefully, the Fenix battery box is just as strong as the PT Apex one.

I wouldn't put the battery pack anywhere but on the back of my head.


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## PhantomPhoton

Regulation looks okay but I can't stand the limited time boost mode garbage. I'm also curious about the UI. Glad to see that they didn't include tacticool strobe on the headlamp. The thing that determines whether or not I'll buy one is whether a neutral tint version will be an option. 
Anyone who has pre-ordered please post your thoughts when the light comes in. :naughty:


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## Gryffin

I just hope there's a diffuser (ideally, flip-up) available for it. Throw is nice, but I like a diffuser for up-close work.


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## 276

There is a diffuser you can use its on 4sevens...


----------



## Gryffin

Yeah, I just saw that. I'm pretty sure they put that up roughly 4.27nanoseconds after my post.

Seriously, I had just asked 4Sevens about just such a diffuser, or the lack thereof, yesterday. Nice timing!


----------



## Woods Walker

When the reports come in about the HP10 and if all is good then I will order one and that diffuser too.


----------



## walangij

I pre-ordered a HP10 & Diffuser for an annual summer backpacking weekend with some of my buddies coming up next week. I'm pretty excited, I'll try to post up a small mini-review for backpackers. It'll be used pretty heavily and I'm worried about the heat it may generate while on my head as well as destroying the night-vision of my buddies. If anyone wants anything specific they want to know about it let me know and I'll make a note of that on my trip.


----------



## Yucca Patrol

walangij,

If you ordered from 4-sevens, you might want to check the status of your order and plan for a backup headlamp. I noticed yesterday that the shipping date has been pushed back to August 11th.

I'll be wanting mine for the weekend after the 11th, but am not certain that it will arrive in time for my trip. . .


----------



## walangij

I just saw the shipping date being pushed back, although I didn't order from four sevens. I have a petzl & PT that I'm bringing along just in case along with my MD2. Maybe I'll have to plan a short 2-day outing when the HP10 does come in if I can schedule out of work for a day


----------



## Yucca Patrol

Glad you've got backups. . . I'd hate for a new CPF member to be left in the dark!
:welcome:


----------



## Swedpat

I recently ordered a HP10. Because I long time have wanted a 4AA 200+ lumens flashlight by Fenix I consider this new light to be very attractive. Though it's a headlamp. But in many situations a headlamp is more suitable than a handholded light!
I don't think 4AA cells is a too heavy load for the head. And the place for the battery pack at the back of the head I think is a very good choice because it will make a good weight balance.
I wanted a 4AA version of TK10, but will get it in a headlamp model. I will send my impression when I have received it.


Regards, Patric


----------



## chadvone

I would like to stuff the goodies out of this into a streamlight 4aa. That would be my Ideal camping light.


----------



## vanoord

Looks like it's just what the doctor ordered: a P3D / PD30 headpiece strapped to a bracket.

I've been using a P1D mounted to a helmet as a backup underground for the last 12 months and it's done a fine job.

The HP10 seems to be a perfect unit for backing up my Stenlight, but whether the bracket can be adapted to allow both to be mounted at the same time is going to be the clincher. 

The question for me is going to be whether it can run off 7.2v Stenlight battery packs - that would make a very handy way of sharing battery packs.


----------



## Woods Walker

The only major concern I have that kept me from preordering the headlamp is the issue of indicator hum or whatever in the world people like to call the noise that is hit or miss with fenix and other lights. There seems to be some elements of their flashlights in this headlamp and that’s a good thing. But they had better take steps to make certain there is no whine or hiss from the headlamp. I can hear some lights about 3 feet away on high. This is not so bad but could be crazy strapped to my head. Also want to see if the water resistant rating holds up.


----------



## PhantomPhoton

I've never heard a Fenix light hum. Woods walker, which one(s) specifically are you referring to? The only one I can think of would be the little PWM AAA ones. Current controlled lights shouldn't have that issue afaik.

I do like that little flip up diffuser. I'll have to make an order once PTS gets them.


----------



## Chads93GT

I just ordered one. Hopefully it ships on the 13th like it says. I have a 12 hour cave trip on the 22nd that I want to blind everyone on. Ive already upgraded all of our apex's with the new optic and the p4, i think thats what it was, and this thing looks to be a lot brighter than the modded/130lumen apex's. im excited. especially if its actually water proof!


----------



## Woods Walker

PhantomPhoton said:


> I've never heard a Fenix light hum. Woods walker, which one(s) specifically are you referring to? The only one I can think of would be the little PWM AAA ones. Current controlled lights shouldn't have that issue afaik.
> 
> I do like that little flip up diffuser. I'll have to make an order once PTS gets them.


 

My TK20 does on high. Other Fenix/Nitecore/etc lights do it and this is normal but wouldn't be so kinda with one on my head. Do a search on the topic. Not all as my L2D does not but others have heard sounds from the same model.


----------



## Yucca Patrol

Fortunately, I have enough hearing loss that I can't hear very high pitched humming.. . . .


----------



## Burgess

Looks very nice.

:thumbsup:



What batteries were used, to supply those listed run-times ?


(sigh . . . . why do they never SPECIFY this, withOUT us having to ask ? ? ?)



_


----------



## alexc

How can they say brightest headlamp in the world if Petzl already makes a lamp with 350 lumens.


----------



## Turbo DV8

Chads93GT said:


> I have a 12 hour cave trip on the 22nd that I want to blind everyone on.


 
That's a great way to ruin the campy caving atmosphere. I don't think anyone will appreciate your superior candlepower in that venue!


----------



## Burgess

to Alexc --


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !


:welcome:

_


----------



## Yucca Patrol

alexc said:


> How can they say brightest headlamp in the world if Petzl already makes a lamp with 350 lumens.



My Serv-Light puts out somewhere around 450, but who's counting? (all of us LOL)


----------



## Woods Walker

alexc said:


> How can they say brightest headlamp in the world if Petzl already makes a lamp with 350 lumens.


 
From Petzl:

High-output, large capacity ACCU 2 ULTRA rechargeable battery pack (Lithium Ion 2000 mAh)

From Fenix:

The Fenix HP10 is the world's brightest headlamp that runs off AA batteries

I am not seeing an oops here.


----------



## johanssonsan

Delivery puched back to Wednesday 19 August, 2009.


----------



## jhc37013

johanssonsan said:


> Delivery puched back to Wednesday 19 August, 2009.




Aww that sucks but I knew that would happen. Doesn't it always?


----------



## PhantomPhoton

jhc37013 said:


> Aww that sucks but I knew that would happen. Doesn't it always?



Yup always does. lol just look at Surefire and Inova's record for releasing lights on time over the past couple years.


----------



## 276

It's a shame, my sister told me she was going to go camping with friedns and invited me to go along ( never been camping) probably cause if i go there would be no need to buy any lights for the trip. It would ahve been nice to have it for that.


----------



## Palaeoboy

If the thermal cut out for turbo mode is timed to only 3 minutes then that would be the deal breaker for me. If it is a thermostat cut out then that would be ok. The 3 minute statement doesnt make sense as their regular torches they specify 10 minutes and they dont even have the huge heat sinks the HP10 does.


----------



## gem

alexc said:


> How can they say brightest headlamp in the world if Petzl already makes a lamp with 350 lumens.


Maybe they ment the brightest *dropin batteries (4xAA)* as the Petzl uses it's own perpritary rechargable batteries and the headlamp cost 6x as much as the fenix HP10. Now if got $ the bills, sure get the Petzl Ultra.


----------



## ApoXX

Doh, pushed back until September 1st  The nature of preordering I guess, wonder if they are trying to build up an adequate stock or are working out quality control issues, etc.

At least I have my H501w to keep me illuminated for camping.


----------



## f22shift

ApoXX said:


> are working out quality control issues, etc.


 
yup. mentioned in the marketplace. 

that's a good reason to wait


----------



## Chads93GT

Turbo DV8 said:


> That's a great way to ruin the campy caving atmosphere. I don't think anyone will appreciate your superior candlepower in that venue!


 

Nah its all good. we like to see the passage when we cave


----------



## johanssonsan

First they talk about deley in customs. Then this:

"Headlamp update: The Fenix HP10 lights have been delayed. Fenix has alerted us to delays in the production process of this new product. Currently they have no ETA but they will send us a notice with shipping information as soon as it's available."

Anyone with better experience of Fenix-Store.com?


----------



## Gnufsh

I have always had an excellent experience with fenix-store.com. I think they are only going off what fenix tells them.


----------



## Yucca Patrol

Fenix-Store/4-Sevens is probably the best place to buy these lights. It is the manufacturer that is delaying the release. Nobody will have them sooner.


----------



## Lightcrazycanuck

Yep 4-7s ROCKS.:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## degarb

For what it is worth, I will contribute, my half cent...

I talked to a tech on phone from Fenix and was blown away from his information. Wow, would certainly buy from these guys and pay a little more. They are helpful, honest, & knowledgeable. 

I hope they can get product out soon and with quality. 

On the downside, it did sound like they have already twice the preorders than what they will be able to supply for a while. And, too bad too they are only doing a q5 and not r2 bin Cree.

My question is: for those experts reading here with experience-- do you really think light will truly be better than the Remington 4AA 150 lumen? , I would think, this would require a better bin led, as well as significantly more efficient controller. Otherwise, you just got an energy pig with short runtime that has limited or no usefulness to people like me.


----------



## Turbo DV8

degarb said:


> And, too bad too they are only doing a q5 and not r2 bin Cree ... you just got an energy pig with short runtime that has limited or no usefulness to people like me.


 
Don't fret. In seemingly no time at all, the r2 will be considered an "energy pig."


----------



## johanssonsan

...and again...

"HP10 Production Delay (as of 08/25/2009)
Fenix has provided an update on the production of the HP10. They are still having issues with the final design, and they are looking to have it solved this week. However, if they cannot resolve the problem, they may need to redesign the headlamp, and this will of course add to the production time.

For now, we are leaving pre-orders open so you can still reserve a spot 'in line' for when the HP10 is available. As soon as we receive another update from Fenix, we'll let you know!"


----------



## degarb

Please, please, please. Make the connection to the 4 AA pack a disconnectable hitch, so we can use a belt pack. Here is a simple/cheap solution: two short pins/screws coming out of battery pack--one wired to positive and one to negative--insulated by default. We could cut insulation off with razor, if desired, to connect our packs with alligator clips.


Very common request, and a no-brainer. Some need this to warm cells in winter, for me I can run off cheap 6 volt agm that are super easy to charge and run for 10 hours on high for a working day, some people like their light-weight 18650 battery packs for athletic activities.


----------



## Yucca Patrol

Adding an extra length of for belt or pocket carry would be a very easy job. Use detachable connectors such as Anderson PowerPole or R/C hobby connectors to splice in an additional length of cable.


----------



## Lightcrazycanuck

+1 Deans plugs ROCK. I use them all the time on my R/C equipment.


----------



## Swedpat

Because of the delay of HP10 I removed it from my order. It seems to be a nice light but I don't like the 3 minutes brake of turbomode. If that's not necessary with the other lights with same brightness, like TK10, I don't understand why it would be necessary with HP10.

Regards, Patric


----------



## vtunderground

Swedpat said:


> It seems to be a nice light but I don't like the 3 minutes brake of turbomode. If that's not necessary with the other lights with same brightness, like TK10, I don't understand why it would be necessary with HP10.



With handheld lights (like the TK10), your hand provides a fair bit of cooling that isn't possible with a headlamp. 

I know that if I leave my Surefire L4 sitting on the desk for ten minutes while turned on, it will be much, MUCH hotter than if I'd been holding it in my hand for ten minutes.


----------



## Marduke

Swedpat said:


> Because of the delay of HP10 I removed it from my order. It seems to be a nice light but I don't like the 3 minutes brake of turbomode. If that's not necessary with the other lights with same brightness, like TK10, I don't understand why it would be necessary with HP10.
> 
> Regards, Patric



Well, if you really want a headlamp the size and weight of the TK10 for heatsinking purposes hanging off the front of your forehead, go for it...


----------



## AusKipper

With any luck by the time they get around to releasing it they will go "hmm, the MCE's have come down in price, lets pop one of those in it and allow people to blast 500lm for 30 seconds...


----------



## Swedpat

You actually mean that holding the light in the hand cooperates to cool down it? :thinking:

Regards, Patric


----------



## DimeRazorback

Well, it draws heat to your body and away from the light, rather then having the LED sit there and boil... it's all conduction.


----------



## Swedpat

Ok, my first thought was that holding a light in the hand works like a blanket and rather should prevent the heat to leave the light. 
But this also has to be a bit depending of the outer temperature. Using a light outside at winter it could maybe be better to have the light without any covering? Anyway, you use gloves when it's enough cold...

Regards, Patric


----------



## Marduke

Swedpat said:


> You actually mean that holding the light in the hand cooperates to cool down it? :thinking:
> 
> Regards, Patric



That, and the size of the heatsink, which is very limited with a headlamp. Air is a MUCH MUCH worse heat conductor vs the fluids in you hand.

For the size, the HP10 is still brighter on high than most other consumer headlamps out there.


----------



## Woods Walker

I think water is around 27 times the heat sink that air is. Guessing that is why I don’t wear wet cotton clothes going out in winter camping. Also any lights I own when run higher get much warmer if not held. Marduke is spot on.


----------



## Shorty66

Fluids are a better heatsink but the air is constantly moving which makes it a pretty good heatsink, to.
Especially if the light is in motion air is much more efficient in cooling the light than your hand.


----------



## kevinm

It's all about heat capacity and heat exchange rate. Water has a very high heat capacity. Air moves a lot, but has low heat capacity.

The thing about holding a light is that you are mostly water. You can absorb a lot of heat. Your blood moves the heat our of your hand. It gets re-radiated by your skin. So in this case, there is a lot of heat capacity, a lot of movement of heat away the light, and a lot of surface area to radiate the heat away.

If the headlamp made thermal contact with your head, it could do the same, but it might be uncomfortable when it gets too hot...:tinfoil:


----------



## Turbo DV8

There is a reason why auto engines are liquid cooled as opposed to air cooled. It provides much, much better and more even cooling. Your flashlight is the engine. Your blood is the coolant. Your skin is the radiator.


----------



## jankj

Turbo DV8 said:


> There is a reason why auto engines are liquid cooled as opposed to air cooled. It provides much, much better and more even cooling. Your flashlight is the engine. Your blood is the coolant. Your skin is the radiator.



I don't really buy this, or at least only with some assumptions that makes heat transfer to your blood a very "special case" scenario, at least where I live. 

For heat transfer to take place, there must be a temperature difference. For the radiator analogy to hold, not only must the flashlight be warmer than your skin temperature (close to 30 degrees C / 90 F), it must be warmer than your blood (37 C / 100 F). If the light is colder than 37 C / 100 F, your blood is warming the flashlight, not the other way around. 

I'm not denying that hand cooling can be a factor in hot environments. But I do dispute the importance placed on this effect. On the other hand: Don't underestimate the cooling effect of freely flowing air!


----------



## Marduke

Considering a hot flashlight is ~130-140F, you blood is a surperb heatsink. 

For air to be an effective heatsink, it has to be moving fairly fast, meaning bike lights are about the only ones which can benefit using passive air flow.


----------



## jankj

Marduke said:


> Considering a hot flashlight is ~130-140F, you blood is a surperb heatsink.
> 
> For air to be an effective heatsink, it has to be moving fairly fast, meaning bike lights are about the only ones which can benefit using passive air flow.



One questions: 

Those hot flashlights - do they achieve 140F in the hand section? Or is it merely in the head? If it's 130-140F in the head, what is the typical temperature in the part that you're holding in your hand? 


I'm not sure I could hold a 130F flashlight. I think that would be highly uncomfortable. In fact, I believe 130F is about where you start to develop burns... 

If the head section is 130F and the hand section is very much below this, then that is a clear indicator that air flow is doing its job to cool the head. If not, the fingers closest to the head should get quite uncomfortably warm...


----------



## kevinm

jankj said:


> One questions:
> 
> Those hot flashlights - do they achieve 140F in the hand section? Or is it merely in the head? If it's 130-140F in the head, what is the typical temperature in the part that you're holding in your hand?
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I could hold a 130F flashlight. I think that would be highly uncomfortable. In fact, I believe 130F is about where you start to develop burns...
> 
> If the head section is 130F and the hand section is very much below this, then that is a clear indicator that air flow is doing its job to cool the head. If not, the fingers closest to the head should get quite uncomfortably warm...



I've had flashlights get that hot in the hand, but not until long after they would have reached that temp sitting in front of my air conditioner. Yes, they get hard to hold when they get above 130!

If the head and body are conductively connected (touching, which is usually the case), the body is being cooled by the hand and the head by the body.

Honestly, I don't understand the confusion here. Go got one of your lights that gets hot (something that runs at an amp or so). Let it sit on the table without touching it for 5 minutes while on. Then, grab it and see how hot it is. Then, let it cool to room temp. Now, turn it on and run it for 5 minutes. You'll feel the difference pretty quickly. 

Incidentally, this is better done with a thermometer.:nana:


----------



## jankj

kevinm said:


> Honestly, I don't understand the confusion here.



No confusion, just civil disagreement about which factor is most important in cooling the flashlight.... :wave: Neither of us is denying that air cooling or liquid cooling through the blood will take place, given the right circumstances... 


I can't really test this, as none of my feeble lights will ever get hot enough... Have you really have tested how hot your "hottest" flashlight will get when sitting in front of your air conditioner? If so, you have just convinced me... yes, I am happy to take your word for it. _(Not to say that I certainly would appreciate it if you did repeat the above experiment and wrote about it ... but this discussion is probably worth a separate thread) 
_

Nevertheless: *If the light is not noticeable warm to hold, your hand is not cooling it. *It does not have to be uncomfortably warm, but as it will have to be warmer than 37 C / 100 F, which is well above the typical skin temperature (around 34 C / 94 F), you should really feel it as luke warm in your hand (swap hands if you're not sure). If it is not noticeable lukewarm in your hand, then other processes - primary air cooling - is sufficient for cooling the light. If it is warm to hold, then I'll admit blood cooling probably is a factor. _(I'm eager to see more experiments that can nail down exactly how effective this can be, but let's just leave that for a later discussion, shall we...) _


----------



## offroadcmpr

I think that most people don't think of your hand warming a cold flashlight is because the flashlight doesn't fry at the temperature that your hand will get it, so it doesn't matter. In some cases it would actually be good if it warmed up because batteries don't do well in cold.


----------



## Archie Cruz

So far I like it but they made a mistake with the teenie tiny control buttons. I may have to cement some bigger buttons on top of them to make it useful with gloves on. Diffuser is on the way to me too.


----------



## Marduke

jankj said:


> I can't really test this, as none of my feeble lights will ever get hot enough... Have you really have tested how hot your "hottest" flashlight will get when sitting in front of your air conditioner? If so, you have just convinced me... yes, I am happy to take your word for it. _(Not to say that I certainly would appreciate it if you did repeat the above experiment and wrote about it ... but this discussion is probably worth a separate thread)
> _



Yes, people have done the temp tests. They have conducted qualitative tests, and quantitative tests with IR thermometers and thermocouples, and even plotted T vs t graphs for passive air cooling, active air cooling, and passive body (human) cooling.

Guess what, holding a light is better than just letting it set there...


----------



## traplight

Agreed, in a natural controlled environment with all of the variables being equal, a hand will offer better cooling than passive air.

It does stand to be said that if we had the same flashlight in a room at 98.6 deg. would the hand not act as an insulator, and increase the amount of heat within the flashlight. This is a basic thermodynamic principal (as far as 'basic' can be determined).

A liquid cooled engine still has to have the liquid cooled in some manner... which leads us back to air cooling... a secondary form in the physical concept of cooling. More parts = less efficiency.

Remember how quickly 2 human bodies can warm each other faster than they can warm themselves


----------



## vali

traplight said:


> A liquid cooled engine still has to have the liquid cooled in some manner... which leads us back to air cooling... a secondary form in the physical concept of cooling. More parts = less efficiency.



The trick here is the amount of cooling surface.


----------



## Marduke

vali said:


> The trick here is the amount of cooling surface.



And that it's an active, not passive system.


----------



## Jagge

Anyway, cooling is a lame excuse for turning turbo off always after 3 minutes. If used as running headlamp the air flow would keep it cool just fine. Deal breaker for most trail runners.


----------



## Marduke

Jagge said:


> Anyway, cooling is a lame excuse for turning turbo off always after 3 minutes. If used as running headlamp the air flow would keep it cool just fine. Deal breaker for most trail runners.



You do realize that most other headlamps that have turbo turn off as soon as you stop pressing the turbo button, and recommend <20 *seconds* of continuous use, right??

3 full minutes of hands free turbo is extremely generous, and much longer than the competition. It's also much brighter...


----------



## Jagge

Marduke said:


> You do realize that most other headlamps that have turbo turn off as soon as you stop pressing the turbo button, and recommend <20 *seconds* of continuous use, right??
> 
> 3 full minutes of hands free turbo is extremely generous, and much longer than the competition. It's also much brighter...



extremely generous? I don't see it like that. All decent trail running headlamps I have tried/own are far brighter than this fenix at 225 lumens "turbo" and also stay that bright far longer than 3 minutes! But this fenix at turbo would have been nice affordable budget alternative and would have done just fine for example in snow conditions. And it would have been doable just by using tempetarure sensor to dim it only if it gets too hot. 

Now it's just an other cheap ballpark ~100 lumens headlamp, not intresting at all.


----------



## jankj

traplight said:


> It does stand to be said that if we had the same flashlight in a room at 98.6 deg. would the hand not act as an insulator, and increase the amount of heat within the flashlight. This is a basic thermodynamic principal (as far as 'basic' can be determined).
> 
> A liquid cooled engine still has to have the liquid cooled in some manner... which leads us back to air cooling... a secondary form in the physical concept of cooling. More parts = less efficiency.



Your body has an astonishing system to regulate its temperature. To remove excessive heat, you sweat, and evaporation cools your skin. Assuming the hand is cooling the flashlight (_thanks Marduke for enlightening me - I should have known CPF'er would have tested every possible aspect of flashlights_), the flashlight will simply "tap into" your body thermoregulation system. 

In fact, the warmer the room the more important hand cooling will be... 

The light may become somewhat slippery, but since sweat in your flashlight holding hand can't evaporate that won't affect the heat transport.


----------



## Marduke

Jagge said:


> extremely generous? I don't see it like that. All decent trail running headlamps I have tried/own are far brighter than this fenix at 225 lumens "turbo" and also stay that bright far longer than 3 minutes! But this fenix at turbo would have been nice affordable budget alternative and would have done just fine for example in snow conditions. And it would have been doable just by using tempetarure sensor to dim it only if it gets too hot.
> 
> Now it's just an other cheap ballpark ~100 lumens headlamp, not intresting at all.



And exactly how much did those "other" trail running headlamps cost?? 

How much do they weigh?

How do you know the 3 minutes is not just an estimate and it actually is thermally regulated?


----------



## Jagge

3 min is quite clearly said at fenix store web site.

Some lamps weight a bit more and some slightly less than this fenix. Cost is usually a lot more of course, like 4 times more, but comes with charger and lion pack. Like I wrote I hoped this fenix would become a nice budget alternative. But now I would need to buy two or three fenix headlamps & batteries to get the output I need. Not that cheap of lightweight any more.

Note, all I am criticizing is the time based cutoff instead of using temperature. With slightly different approach and it would be nice toy even for trail running.


----------



## Marduke

Jagge said:


> 3 min is quite clearly said at fenix store web site.
> 
> Some lamps weight a bit more and some slightly less than this fenix. Cost is usually a lot more of course, like 4 times more, but comes with charger and lion pack. Like I wrote I hoped this fenix would become a nice budget alternative. But now I would need to buy two or three fenix headlamps & batteries to get the output I need. Not that cheap of lightweight any more.
> 
> Note, all I am criticizing is the time based cutoff instead of using temperature. With slightly different approach and it would be nice toy even for trail running.



Like I said, with no samples out there yet, how do you KNOW it is EXACTLY 3 minutes? Other similar headlamps with a limited turbo mode state <20 seconds, but have no timer, or have a temperature sensor. Fenix states on some models not to use turbo for >10 minutes in an environment with a high ambient temperature. However, there is neither a timer, nor a temperature sensor for that guideline.

So until there are samples available for review and dissection, you have no way to know if the 3 minutes is timer based, or temperature based.

Think about it, the typical consumer, which makes more sense for an advertisement? "The light throttles off of turbo after reading 140F", which tells the user nothing as to how long that is. It could be 20 seconds or 20 minutes, the typical user would have NO IDEA. Or are they dumbing it down, running through the trivial thermodynamics calculations for typical use at around room temperature, and stating "The light throttles down off of turbo after approximately 3 minutes".


----------



## MikeF

jankj said:


> Your body has an astonishing system to regulate its temperature. To remove excessive heat, you sweat, and evaporation cools your skin. Assuming the hand is cooling the flashlight (_thanks Marduke for enlightening me - I should have known CPF'er would have tested every possible aspect of flashlights_), the flashlight will simply "tap into" your body thermoregulation system.
> 
> In fact, the warmer the room the more important hand cooling will be...
> 
> The light may become somewhat slippery, but since sweat in your flashlight holding hand can't evaporate that won't affect the heat transport.


 

Jankj,
How can you say sweat in your flashlight holding hand can't evaporate and that it won't affect the heat transport?

Since your hand is not a sealed pressure vessel with perfect insulation and isolation from the environment, the water vapor generated as the sweat gains heat would cause an increase in it's vapor pressure and cause it to depart from around the flashlight through the channels in folds of skin and micro channels on the skin's surface. This would cause more evaporative cooling.


----------



## dcycleman

I would have thought that holding a flashlight would insulate it. interesting, I could swear that when I grab my L4 by the head and hold it it gets hotter. I'm not sold on the hand cooling the light. certainly not on a cold night. If I let my L4 sit there on a 20 degree F. night and then I held it in my hand, I'm pretty sure I would be an insulator making it heat up.


----------



## MikeF

dcycleman said:


> I would have thought that holding a flashlight would insulate it. interesting, I could swear that when I grab my L4 by the head and hold it it gets hotter.


 
You are correct when you hold the head of your L-4 it does get hotter. If you monitored the temperature increase while holding it versus not holding it you would find that it gets hotter faster when in air and will not get as hot in your hand as if it is in free air.



dcycleman said:


> I'm not sold on the hand cooling the light. certainly not on a cold night. If I let my L4 sit there on a 20 degree F. night and then I held it in my hand, I'm pretty sure I would be an insulator making it heat up.


 
On a cold night, your hand would be warmed to an equalibrium point as the heat produced by the flashlight would be heating your hand and your blood stream and cooling system would cary away the heat from your hand. An insulator does not cause something to heat up. It isolates a high or low temerature from the opposite and slows the transfer of heat from one to the other. Think of how quilckly ice would melt if it is in the sun versus inside a cooler.


----------



## dcycleman

MikeF said:


> You are correct when you hold the head of your L-4 it does get hotter. If you monitored the temperature increase while holding it versus not holding it you would find that it gets hotter faster when in air and will not get as hot in your hand as if it is in free air.
> 
> 
> 
> On a cold night, your hand would be warmed to an equalibrium point as the heat produced by the flashlight would be heating your hand and your blood stream and cooling system would cary away the heat from your hand. An insulator does not cause something to heat up. It isolates a high or low temerature from the opposite and slows the transfer of heat from one to the other. Think of how quilckly ice would melt if it is in the sun versus inside a cooler.


 
Yeah, I realize that an insulator doesnt cause heat, it simply prevents it from leaving. thats why a cuzi keeps a beer cold, and a styrofoam cup keeps coffee hot, preventing the exchange of hot/cold. now mabe the blood flow in ones hand would allow more cooling than say, wrapping the light in fiberglass insulation, however I am still not buying that your hand cools a light more than sitting in the air on a frigid night, dont think so. Hey mabe I'm wrong, I'm no scientist. However my old man is an engineer and I'm pretty sure he has some thermocouples kicking around. I could tape one to the head of an L4 and leave it sitting outside for say 15 minutes, let it cool and then do the same holding the light and see what happens. (as a side note what if one is wearing a glove?)


----------



## Marduke

If it's cold enough to wear a glove, you probably don't need to worry too much about your flashlight overheating, and you can't really do anything about it other than use some common sense as to it's continued operation.


----------



## csshih

dcycleman said:


> I am still not buying that your hand cools a light more than sitting in the air on a frigid night, dont think so.



As brought up a few times, blood cools lights nicely 

I have first hand (forgive the pun) experience regarding that.


----------



## dcycleman

Marduke said:


> If it's cold enough to wear a glove, you probably don't need to worry too much about your flashlight overheating, and you can't really do anything about it other than use some common sense as to it's continued operation.


 
Not really concerned with continued operation, just curiose to see what happens, I am half way through the second half of the test, ambient temp was 61 degrees, after 15 min. L4 reached a height of 90 degrees, currently in my hand with the thermocouple under my thumb it is residing at a cool 77. unless it goes up in like 5 min. I guess I am the proverbial horses ***


----------



## Marduke

dcycleman said:


> Not really concerned with continued operation, just curiose to see what happens, I am half way through the second half of the test, ambient temp was 61 degrees, after 15 min. L4 reached a height of 90 degrees, currently in my hand with the thermocouple under my thumb it is residing at a cool 77. unless it goes up in like 5 min. I guess I am the proverbial horses ***


Could have saved you the time... 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/200492

Notice both cooled methods plateaued, while the uncooled did not. Also note the uncooled test had a lower ambient temperature, giving it a false advantage. The delta should be even more...


----------



## dcycleman

batteries died


----------



## dcycleman

Marduke said:


> Could have saved you the time...
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/200492
> 
> Notice both cooled methods plateaued, while the uncooled did not. Also note the uncooled test had a lower ambient temperature, giving it a false advantage. The delta should be even more...


 
interesting, that fan did cool the light more than the hand............
so I guess it would have to be a WINDY cold night


----------



## Marduke

dcycleman said:


> interesting, that fan did cool the light more than the hand............
> so I guess it would have to be a WINDY cold night



Hence my original statement many posts above, unless you are a cyclist (which produces sufficient airflow), a light is most beneficial of human body passive cooling. 

I guess you could add working in arctic conditions to the list...


----------



## Jagge

Marduke said:


> Like I said, with no samples out there yet, how do you KNOW it is EXACTLY 3 minutes



Some may see it as false marketing if they promise its 3 minutes and it may be just two.

I can't, but it doesnt' change anything, 3 minutes or ten minutes - it's deal breaker anyway if it changes turbo off by itself - unless it turns turbo on again by itself as soon as it cools down.

But of course as you wrote there is no samples out there yet, so we can hope this is one of he reasons the production has been delayed and this issue will be fixed.


----------



## Marduke

Do you understand the concept of "turbo"? It is not a level of power meant to be maintained for the duration of use. That applies across all products with a "turbo boost". Airplanes, engines, flashlights...

All headlamps that have a "turbo boost" mode also limit the duration of that mode. It just so happens that the HP10 turbo is brighter and lasts longer than similar products, hence the "generous" statement.


----------



## AusKipper

Marduke said:


> Do you understand the concept of "turbo"? It is not a level of power meant to be maintained for the duration of use. That applies across all products with a "turbo boost". Airplanes, engines, flashlights...
> 
> All headlamps that have a "turbo boost" mode also limit the duration of that mode. It just so happens that the HP10 turbo is brighter and lasts longer than similar products, hence the "generous" statement.



+1

What would you rather, a headlight with a max of 150lm? or a headlight that can stay on 150lm for as long as you like BUT you get the OPTION to bump it up to 225 for a short period of time?

I personally would take the option of having the boost mode. 

A lot of the time, even if you could just have boost for 10 seconds, it would be enough to get the job done. IE, my Fenix TK40, runs at 640lm, and doesnt drop down to any lower level by itself. Would I have paid $10 more to have a "boost" option where I could pump it up to 1000+ lumens even for just 5 seconds? hell yes!!!

Anyway, just thought I would share my opinion on that. Ideally it would be thermally controlled, and would not drop back until it actually became too hot. If thats not an option, if thats too difficult to implement, then a 3 minute boost is quite adequate i think.


----------



## Jagge

Marduke said:


> Do you understand the concept of "turbo"?



Of course. It's just a fancy name for driving LED with slightly bigger current. It can't be really hard/bright the because led would instant flash. Thats why the only way to make significantly brighter "turbo" is faking it by reducing the high mode. Only 120 high and 225 turbo from Q5 based light sound just about that kind of fake turbo to me. 

I'd rather have no turbo at all, but thermally controlled max 225 lumens high.


----------



## Marduke

Jagge said:


> Of course. It's just a fancy name for driving LED with slightly bigger current. It can't be really hard/bright the because led would instant flash. Thats why the only way to make significantly brighter "turbo" is faking it by reducing the high mode. Only 120 high and 225 turbo from Q5 based light sound just about that kind of fake turbo to me.
> 
> I'd rather have no turbo at all, but thermally controlled max 225 lumens high.



Well that answered my question. You have no idea what "turbo" actually means, and why there are real (not fake) limiting factors in products that offer "turbo" modes of operation.

With respect to LED lights in particular, there is this undesirable byproduct known as "heat" which for the led is "harmful". When you want a lot of power in a very small package, this creates a large amount of this thing called "heat" that is so bad for LEDs. If you create to much of this "heat" you can cause something call "damage" to the LED.

There is only one way to limit this thing called "damage", and that is by limiting the amount of the thing called "heat" being generated. There are three main ways to do that:

1) limit the overall output
2) limit the max output for short duration, along with #1
3) add more material, making it heavier and bulkier and more off balance


----------



## vanoord

Woods Walker said:


> From Petzl:
> 
> High-output, large capacity ACCU 2 ULTRA rechargeable battery pack (Lithium Ion 2000 mAh)
> 
> From Fenix:
> 
> The Fenix HP10 is the world's brightest headlamp that runs off AA batteries
> 
> I am not seeing an oops here.



The Stenlight S7+ can be run off 6 AA batteries (they can supply a battery holder) and produces 360 lumens


----------



## degarb

vanoord said:


> The Stenlight S7+ can be run off 6 AA batteries (they can supply a battery holder) and produces 360 lumens



Where is the sheet on this and type of led? 

It was, when I looked at it last year, that they were using lux3's (one of the worst efficient led) and would modify for more money. http://www.stenlight.com/fact-sheet.htm


For $100 you could make your own duel or triple headlamp with local or better mail order parts. This would make sense if you were replacing a $300 Stenlight--even surpassing efficiency--, but not too much in replacing $79 q5 for a small bump in light at xx current.


----------



## Turbo DV8

Marduke said:


> Do you understand the concept of "turbo"? It is not a level of power meant to be maintained for the duration of use. That applies across all products with a "turbo boost". Airplanes, engines, flashlights...


 


> Well that answered my question. You have no idea what "turbo" actually means


 
A turbocharged engine is not meant to maintain boost during the duration of use? That would make a turbo jet engine pretty useless at altitude on a transatlantic flight, now wouldn't it? Look at my avatar. I can assure my turbo motorcycle engine can run all day long in "turbo mode" at 18 psi. 

On that account, jagge is absolutely correct. "Turbo," as applied to a flashlight, or any other device which does not actually contain a turbine, is absolutely meaningless. When cars were first equipped from the factory with turbochargers, they were all the rage, and the word "turbo" has now become engrained to be synonymous with "power." Now it's become nothing more than a widely-used marketing buzz word to cause potential customers to go, "Oooh, aaaah, wow, neato!" "Turbo" mode on a flashlight does not define anything, not even how long it should or should not run on "turbo," because it is absolutely meaningless, once you understand where the term "turbo" came from. You can find anything with the word "turbo" slapped on to it. Electric "turbo" toothbrush, anyone?


----------



## DirtyBird

Good Lord. Fenix better get this thing to market, or it's gonna be Nerd Night at the Cage Fights.


----------



## vanoord

degarb said:


> Where is the sheet on this and type of led?



I got mine from here: http://www.excellentstuff.co.uk/StenLight/Accessory-Kit/c-1-69-73/



degarb said:


> It was, when I looked at it last year, that they were using lux3's (one of the worst efficient led) and would modify for more money. http://www.stenlight.com/fact-sheet.htm



The s7+ uses Rebel 100s



degarb said:


> For $100 you could make your own duel or triple headlamp with local or better mail order parts. This would make sense if you were replacing a $300 Stenlight--even surpassing efficiency--, but not too much in replacing $79 q5 for a small bump in light at xx current.



Well, yes, I probably could, but I lack the ability to do so - hence I bought one that was designed specifically for the purpose I use it for; and moreso one that I trust to keep working and one that gives a decent runtime for what I need it for 

However... going back to topic... the HP10 looks like it's going to be a very handy backup - the question is going to be whether it can be run off my 7.2v Stenlight rechargeable batteries?


----------



## Woods Walker

vanoord said:


> The Stenlight S7+ can be run off 6 AA batteries (they can supply a battery holder) and produces 360 lumens


 

ok...


----------



## Offroad'Bent

vanoord said:


> The Stenlight S7+ can be run off 6 AA batteries (they can supply a battery holder) and produces 360 lumens



Well, I can run my 800 lumen Nightlightning 3 Cree R2 bike light off 8AA batteries and it has a head strap for headlamp use.:nana:

I'll still be getting a Fenix when they come out, as the NL is overkill for everything but biking or night orienteering and one of my modded Apexes (Apices? is getting on.


----------



## degarb

Offroad'Bent said:


> Well, I can run my 800 lumen Nightlightning 3 Cree R2 bike light off 8AA batteries and it has a head strap for headlamp use.:nana:



Don't see a price or email or phone number on nightlighting site. ?

So I am impressed, but might have to start new thread. Nevertheless, for a worklight or biking, the nightlight triple design is intriguing, since a tool belt 12volt agm can be used. (6 volt agm duel fuel is nice too for my Remington and dual hl I hacked together, just not as bright or efficient) I don't think overkill since if it had enough run levels or rheostat, you could get very efficient or detail viewing at, say, a 18 foot distance. Now, price for such a head that could be velcro'd anywhere, would determine true practicality...I am thinking of a 3 r2 dx drop-ins, but fear size and lack of lens could become an issue.


----------



## Archie Cruz

vanoord said:


> The Stenlight S7+ can be run off 6 AA batteries (they can supply a battery holder) and produces 360 lumens


Is this the ORIGINAL stenlight? Didn't look like 360 lumens to my eye


----------



## Archie Cruz

Used it a lot today. The buttons are almost impossible to 'index' without a lot of groping. FENIX !!! We need BIGGER buttons:thumbsdow


----------



## degarb

Archie Cruz said:


> Used it a lot today. The buttons are almost impossible to 'index' without a lot of groping. FENIX !!! We need BIGGER buttons:thumbsdow



My Garrity HL had small buttons that were too close. I was only able to find a "super" glue that would raise up the button for a few weeks before it would fall off since the buttons are plastic that glue doesn't like.


----------



## Archie Cruz

I like your direct style of communication. Thanks!
I can't imagine anyone not 'getting' it after that. I certainly did.lovecpf




Marduke said:


> Well that answered my question. You have no idea what "turbo" actually means, and why there are real (not fake) limiting factors in products that offer "turbo" modes of operation.
> 
> With respect to LED lights in particular, there is this undesirable byproduct known as "heat" which for the led is "harmful". When you want a lot of power in a very small package, this creates a large amount of this thing called "heat" that is so bad for LEDs. If you create to much of this "heat" you can cause something call "damage" to the LED.
> 
> There is only one way to limit this thing called "damage", and that is by limiting the amount of the thing called "heat" being generated. There are three main ways to do that:
> 
> 1) limit the overall output
> 2) limit the max output for short duration, along with #1
> 3) add more material, making it heavier and bulkier and more off balance


----------



## johanssonsan

Seems to be delivered.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...453295&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1939wt_960

Fenix-Store.com: " This product will be in stock on Wednesday 30 September, 2009. "

Makes no sense to me.


----------



## Offroad'Bent

degarb said:


> Don't see a price or email or phone number on nightlighting site. ?
> 
> So I am impressed, but might have to start new thread. Nevertheless, for a worklight or biking, the nightlight triple design is intriguing, since a tool belt 12volt agm can be used. (6 volt agm duel fuel is nice too for my Remington and dual hl I hacked together, just not as bright or efficient) I don't think overkill since if it had enough run levels or rheostat, you could get very efficient or detail viewing at, say, a 18 foot distance. Now, price for such a head that could be velcro'd anywhere, would determine true practicality...I am thinking of a 3 r2 dx drop-ins, but fear size and lack of lens could become an issue.




Here's the link:

http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/adventure_lighting_products.htm

Mine is set up for AAs but they can use any battery from 12-14.4v, or Eric can wire it up for 6-7.2v.


----------



## Anders

4seven:"*Fenix's latest word is that we can expect to receive the headlamps around October 5th!"

Anders
*


----------



## DragonFlame

Any idea whether they'll offer a neutral white version at some point ? 
It would be "The one headlamp to rule them all" as far as I'm concerned ... LED battery life and incan-comparable color rendition

DF


----------



## AusKipper

DragonFlame said:


> Any idea whether they'll offer a neutral white version at some point ?
> It would be "The one headlamp to rule them all" as far as I'm concerned ... LED battery life and incan-comparable color rendition
> 
> DF



They have to get the standard cool white yet out those slackers!!!!


----------



## vali

I wonder if it will be suitable for caving...


----------



## Marduke

With any luck I'll be getting a review sample and find out.


----------



## AusKipper

Looks like they finally finished building them..

Now I just gotta wait for a review before I pull the trigger


----------



## Polish Mike

AusKipper said:


> Looks like they finally finished building them..
> 
> Now I just gotta wait for a review before I pull the trigger



I'm with you here


----------



## vanoord

Archie Cruz said:


> Is this the ORIGINAL stenlight? Didn't look like 360 lumens to my eye



Not the original, the S7+ which is revised version of about 4 months ago. There's an incremental upgrade on the way which may push the output above 400 lumens...

Anyway.

I have an HP10 on my desk :thumbsup:

First, first impressions...

Battery box is good, looks like it will be decently waterproof: closes on a hinge and two screw fittings to pull the cover down onto the seal. 

Head unit seems smaller than I'd expected, the idea of separate switches for power level and on/off seems very sensible, will prevent accidentally turning it off. 

Brightness is impressive for something of this size and the optional AD401 diffuser is a nice bit of kit that will also do the job for the P- and L- series flashlights.

Only question so far is the bracket, which seems a bit, er, agricultural. I looks as if it might be removable, in which case some sort of adaption for blade-mounting may be the way to go.


----------



## Offroad'Bent

This light's using a Q5, no? Wonder why they didn't go straight to R2s?


----------



## crizyal

vanoord said:


> Not the original, the S7+ which is revised version of about 4 months ago. There's an incremental upgrade on the way which may push the output above 400 lumens...
> 
> Anyway.
> 
> I have an HP10 on my desk :thumbsup:
> 
> First, first impressions...
> 
> Battery box is good, looks like it will be decently waterproof: closes on a hinge and two screw fittings to pull the cover down onto the seal.
> 
> Head unit seems smaller than I'd expected, the idea of separate switches for power level and on/off seems very sensible, will prevent accidentally turning it off.
> 
> Brightness is impressive for something of this size and the optional AD401 diffuser is a nice bit of kit that will also do the job for the P- and L- series flashlights.
> 
> Only question so far is the bracket, which seems a bit, er, agricultural. I looks as if it might be removable, in which case some sort of adaption for blade-mounting may be the way to go.



Pics or it didn't happen


----------



## Yucca Patrol

I just received confirmation that my HP10 has shipped. With luck, I'll have it tomorrow.


----------



## Marko

vanoord said:


> I have an HP10 on my desk :thumbsup:



Pictures! Review!


----------



## Yucca Patrol

Did anybody here receive their's yet? I am hoping mine will be delivered tomorrow. . . .


----------



## AusKipper

Yucca Patrol said:


> Did anybody here receive their's yet? I am hoping mine will be delivered tomorrow. . . .



No, I'm still waiting for a review from either yourself, Marduke or Selfbuilt before I even put in an order 

I'll be getting 1 (for someone else) no matter what the review, if the review is good I'm getting 2 (1 for me too).


----------



## Swedpat

I think will do like you AusKipper!

Regards, Patric


----------



## Beaker

My Fenix HP10 came in today. Just got it out and compared vs. my PT Apex (1st gen).

The HP10 looks at least as well made. Considerably smaller and lighter than the Apex. Battery compartment looks pretty solid. Cord from lamp to compartment is coiled and thus longer than necessary, but that's a modest complaint.

Light output is low, med, high, turbo. No cave handy, but in a dark room, the medium level is close to the output of the Apex center on 'high'. HP10 'high' is clearly brighter, and 'turbo' is crazy bright. Maybe not quite Sten-level, but a pretty good fraction thereof. (Docs claim that 'turbo' will only run for 3 minutes at a time, then drop back to 'high'.)

Light pattern is a narrow, well-defined, tightly focused spot in the center, with a much wider spill area of dimmer light (same across all settings). Not sure how it will work out in practice, have to see how it is in actual cave, but looks plausible.

In sum: looks pretty damn nice on first unboxing. No caving for me this weekend or the next, but I'll be trying it out on a day trip the 24th... will report back afterward.


----------



## kwkarth

dupped post


----------



## kwkarth

My HP10 came today!

It seems well made, and at least worth its price. The beam profile is fairly good, but not flawless when hunting white walls. If you hunt anything else, it looks virtually perfect. Good spill beam, and peripheral vision is good as a result. 

Low is about three times brighter than is needs to be for dark adapted eyes, but of course, I'm spoiled by the SF T1A and 4Sevens' Quark series moon modes. The brightness steps seem to be spaced well. 

I love the fact that the strobe modes are "hidden" so you never have to cycle through them unless you want to. Ideally, I would love to have this headlamp in a neutral white tint. 

On the "turbo" setting the HP10 does not aeem to be quite as bright as the Quark123nw, The HP10 seems to put out somewhere in the 120-140lm range on turbo. That being said, it's plenty bright for anything I could imagine using a headlamp for, and throw is quite good. Even the lowest output setting is bright enough for most tasks which means about 200 hours of run time on 4xAA's. 

The directions seem to say that it has an output memory. Maybe it's just me, but I had to do a little fiddling to make it work. From the directions and from experience with other lights with similar memory functions, I assumed that simply turning it off from any particular brightness level would set that level in memory so that the next time it was turned on, it would default to the last used level. What actually happend is it always defaults to the lowest level at turn on.

Pressing the button on the right side of the headlamp cycles the light to move up to the next level in brightness. If you press that button while on Turbo, it cycles back to the lowest level which all makes sense, but to memorize a level you're on you have to press the right hand button while on the previous level and hold it pressed in for two seconds to "memorize" that output level. Then, the next time you turn on the light from the off state, it turns on directly in the level you memorized previously.

Overall I'm pleased with this light so far. The headlamp vertical tilt ratchet is rather stiff, but hopefully, it will loosen up over time.

Overall, the HP10 seems to be a very useful, flexible, and well built light.


----------



## Polish Mike

Thank you for the write-ups guys! 
Makes me feel so much better for having ordered the light without waiting for reviews  (what can I say? I'm going on a camping trip soon and need a light source).

Can anyone comment how big the battery compartment is/feels? My main concern is the battery box looks pretty huge on pictures. Is it much bigger than the 4 AAs it contains? Any comment on wear comfort?

P.S. Pics plz


----------



## kwkarth

Polish Mike said:


> Thank you for the write-ups guys!
> Makes me feel so much better for having ordered the light without waiting for reviews  (what can I say? I'm going on a camping trip soon and need a light source).
> 
> Can anyone comment how big the battery compartment is/feels? My main concern is the battery box looks pretty huge on pictures. Is it much bigger than the 4 AAs it contains? Any comment on wear comfort?
> 
> P.S. Pics plz


The battery box seems to be well designed, as it is contoured (curved) to conform to the back of your head. It is only big enough to house the 4 AA cells and the required gasketing for water resistance.

When worn, the battery sort of melts into nothingness as it becomes perfect ballast to balance the headlamp in the front. 

Something I did not realize prior to receiving the HP10 is that unlike my other headlamps, the central top strap keeps everything stable so that the headband never slips and has to be repositioned. 

Another benefit of the top strap is that it lends so much stability to the whole affair, you can wear the headband adjusted much more loosely, and thus more comfortably than you could with the headband alone.

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention in my previous post... Even though I'm sort of enamored with Neutral Tints lately, the tint of the HP-10 is not objectionable at all. No angry blue and no cat urine green, just pretty much white at around (I'm guessing 5500-6000k).


----------



## Archie Cruz

I like this light a lot but really have settled on a bunch of 1 cell Fenix lights and so donated the HP10 to my neighbor, who for some reason, loves to work on his Citroens in the dark:thinking: My principle complaint stands- buttons are too dainty for real-world usability. This is a perfect Camping light BTW. The tilting mount + dimmest setting are perfect for a good read before bed.


----------



## AusKipper

Also... If any of the people here who get this also have a TK10, can they please tell me how the beam is compared to it? (i'm thinking the 225lm etc, the beam is going to be pretty much exactly the same, can anyone confirm??)

Ta..


----------



## kwkarth

AusKipper said:


> Also... If any of the people here who get this also have a TK10, can they please tell me how the beam is compared to it? (i'm thinking the 225lm etc, the beam is going to be pretty much exactly the same, can anyone confirm??)
> 
> Ta..


I have the T1, the predecessor to the TK10, and I'm comparing it with the HP10 as I type this.
The spill and hot spot are about the same size, but the T1 is at least half again as bright as the HP10, so again, although the HP-10 is bright, it is nowhere near the 225 lm claimed. I would say that it is about 140-150 lm on turbo.


----------



## jirik_cz

By "bright" you mean throw? Because HP10 has smaller reflector than T1/TK10 it throws less (it is closer to PD30 in throw capability). So I think that your guess about 140-150 lumens is wrong


----------



## bertho

Hello , 

Could anyone tell me the difference in brightness between the modded apex and the hp10 ( both in high mode ).


----------



## AusKipper

kwkarth said:


> I have the T1, the predecessor to the TK10, and I'm comparing it with the HP10 as I type this.
> The spill and hot spot are about the same size, but the T1 is at least half again as bright as the HP10, so again, although the HP-10 is bright, it is nowhere near the 225 lm claimed. I would say that it is about 140-150 lm on turbo.





jirik_cz said:


> By "bright" you mean throw? Because HP10 has smaller reflector than T1/TK10 it throws less (it is closer to PD30 in throw capability). So I think that your guess about 140-150 lumens is wrong



Now if Kmart or Walmart sold $50 machines that accurately measured lumins output we would never need to have these arguments lol..

MrGman... ?? Help.. 

High is 120 lumins... Any chance your not quite getting it into turbo kwkarth? batteries? or are you noticing all your distinct output differences??

Anyway, I basically wanted to know if a HP10 would be equivalent to having a TK10 on my head, and now I know it is not. (well I have 1 opinion that stats that its not anyway)

Anyway, still holding off for more reviews, and hopefully some beamshots!!


----------



## degarb

Since Lowes has the $39 150 lumen Remington Headlamp that is a super easy to obtain, I am wishing for a head to head review with this light.

* The simplicity of drilling two holes into battry holder and wrapping wires around positive and negative for an easy modification to belt power (I use a power rheostat), is one plus for the Remington. So, with pack and dimmer at my side, I usually force the Remington at the 200 and 400mA level, which is different from the stock setting. .

*Rem. has a big heat sink; Did someone mention the heat sink of the HP10?

* Also, I would be interested in battery current draw. (The Remington matched package runtimes; I measured 570 mA high and 110 mA on low, typical with new nimh, but wasn't constant over battery life.) 

* Though I doubt if the Remington's optics are as efficient as the HP10. The Remington looks like 35 lumens on low to me, but is probably more--likely due to how many lumens make it out of the optic.

I know the HP 10 will beat the Remington. But I want to see it.


----------



## kwkarth

AusKipper said:


> Now if Kmart or Walmart sold $50 machines that accurately measured lumins output we would never need to have these arguments lol..
> 
> MrGman... ?? Help..
> 
> High is 120 lumins... Any chance your not quite getting it into turbo kwkarth? batteries? or are you noticing all your distinct output differences??
> 
> Anyway, I basically wanted to know if a HP10 would be equivalent to having a TK10 on my head, and now I know it is not. (well I have 1 opinion that stats that its not anyway)
> 
> Anyway, still holding off for more reviews, and hopefully some beamshots!!



Good question! Yes, I am getting 4 distinct output levels and am using 4 freshly charged Rayovac LSD NIMH cells. BTW, the hotspot from the T1 is slightly larger than the hotspot from the HP10.


----------



## GaryF

Just a couple of comments...

My HP10 will "remember" the level simply by leaving it on that level for a few seconds prior to shutting off. No fancy button holding required.

Also, the one I have trounces my TK20, the HP10 is much brighter. My TK20 (rated 150 lumens) was my previous brightest light, itself being brighter than a P2D-CE Q5 and also a Lowes Task Force 2C.

For mine, the 225 lumens seems like a reasonable claim when compared to the other lights I have. Of course I have no way of measuring any of these, and I assume that all of the numbers are optimistic vs the true out the front lumens.


----------



## kwkarth

GaryF said:


> Just a couple of comments...
> 
> My HP10 will "remember" the level simply by leaving it on that level for a few seconds prior to shutting off. No fancy button holding required.
> 
> Also, the one I have trounces my TK20, the HP10 is much brighter. My TK20 (rated 150 lumens) was my previous brightest light, itself being brighter than a P2D-CE Q5 and also a Lowes Task Force 2C.
> 
> For mine, the 225 lumens seems like a reasonable claim when compared to the other lights I have. Of course I have no way of measuring any of these, and I assume that all of the numbers are optimistic vs the true out the front lumens.


Maybe mine is defective??


----------



## GaryF

kwkarth said:


> Maybe mine is defective??



It seems like a real possibility. Mine definitely meets brightness expectations.


----------



## kwkarth

GaryF said:


> It seems like a real possibility. Mine definitely meets brightness expectations.


Interestingly, I removed the batteries, thereby resetting the uP. I measured the voltage of each one. They've been in use for a couple days with the HP-10. They all measured 1.31xx volts. I reinstalled them and now the memory seems to work as others have described it should. I'll check brightness later and compare it with a lux meter.


----------



## Jagge

Has anyone yet tried how long it stays on turbo in cold enviroment like running/biking in cold weather?


----------



## ColoradoClimber

It's not very sophisticated looking design, but the light it creates is better than my Mammut and Princeton Tec $100 headlamps. Not terribly heavy considering it's 4 AA.


----------



## GaryF

Jagge said:


> Has anyone yet tried how long it stays on turbo in cold enviroment like running/biking in cold weather?




Mine dropped off right at 3 minutes, and then I kicked it right back into turbo and left it there for another 45 seconds without it dropping off again. It appears to be timer controlled rather than thermally regulated.


----------



## Woods Walker

Must see photos.....:mecry:


----------



## AusKipper

Woods Walker said:


> Must see photos.....:mecry:



Marduke is probably too embarrassed to post clean pics of a flawless HP10, and he is waiting to get it as caked in mud as possible before he takes a pic of it 

Thats my theory anyway...


----------



## Polish Mike

For those who haven't seen this, the Velomania.ru guys have added the HP10 (among others) to their awesome beam shot comparison website. It stacks up pretty well to the competition - the TK20 does seem to have more throw, but the HP10 beam is wider (hard to compare exactly as the shots are done in a different place).

Some of you have said the bracket is not that impressive - could you elaborate? Are we talking simple design or flawed design? Are there any perceived weak points in the design?

P.S. pics, pics, pics


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
I could not find it ............

I'm not multi-lingual ?

.


----------



## Polish Mike

Hmm? Just go to http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/ On the right is a list of lights, HP10 is the 4th entry, HP10+diffuser is number 5. The tables below the list of lights allow you to switch between the various "Scenes" (some lights are tested in different locations, but all using the same settings afaik) , the light's power settings and the exposure time used.

To get the TK20, click the "Road" scene and Fenix TK20 is around the middle of the list. The scene is slightly different but the two bottle "targets" are placed the same distances away (25 and 75m away).


----------



## 276

Polish Mike said:


> Hmm? Just go to http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/ On the right is a list of lights, HP10 is the 4th entry, HP10+diffuser is number 5. The tables below the list of lights allow you to switch between the various "Scenes" (some lights are tested in different locations, but all using the same settings afaik) , the light's power settings and the exposure time used.
> 
> To get the TK20, click the "Road" scene and Fenix TK20 is around the middle of the list. The scene is slightly different but the two bottle "targets" are placed the same distances away (25 and 75m away).



Those beamshots are great!!


----------



## gswitter

Indeed. That looks really good!

My SSC'ed Apex Pro's days are numbered.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
Mike , got it now ..... thanks.

.


----------



## AusKipper

Polish Mike said:


> For those who haven't seen this, the Velomania.ru guys have added the HP10 (among others) to their awesome beam shot comparison website.



Yeah, that did it, just put in an order for 2 HP10's and 2 diffusers


----------



## TheIlluminator

I have been using a modded PT Apex for over 2 years now and it has been great, but one of the things that I wish that it had is a bright flood for up close tasks, and it also suffers from the PT Apex case cracks. So I ordered a hp10, and where the Apex was a large spot with good flood, the HP10 is almost all spot or all flood with the diffuser. The HP10 however is easy to switch from spot to flood depending on the task. Here are some observations and measurements. My Apex is .95 watts on low, 3.665 watts on high, and 11 microamps in standby. My HP10 is .108 watts low, .601 watts medium, 1.577 watts high, 3.933 watts turbo, and 1.6 microamps in standby. The HP10 gets hot fast, within 6 minutes on turbo it hits 160 degrees and I stopped testing because that is hotter than I think it should go. I don't know why the thermal protection didn't kick in, but I would like to know the temperature that it is set to step down to high. If I remember correctly my HDS U60 steppes down around 125-130 degrees. The temperature of the HP10 settles to about 133 degrees on high. Some more surface area on the heatsink for the HP10 would have been great. Perhaps something like the large heatsink on the Apex.


----------



## Mattole

How does the performance of the spot beam compare between the HP10 and your modded Apex?


----------



## AWS123

So I just received my new HP 10 in th email yesterday.
 
Happy, YES!!!
 
They made it very light, just to the point where it is almost flimsy on the plastic pieces that hold the headband on. 
The cord will also have a hard time going into a pack.
It comes off and will work but you might have to pre stretch the cord a little so it doesn't pull.
Without the battery pack this light is super light weight. Much lighter than the set up of a Myo XP Belt.
You wouldn't even need a middle strap it is so light.
 
Other than that, the spot and flood are what you would expect out of a Fenix.
I am a trail runner and the 50 lumens will be awesome for night runs.
 
The one problem , (I) am having is the light is nice on the 2 lowest settings, but I cannot tell any difference between the 2nd lowest setting, (50 lumens) or the 2 highest settings.
 
Absolutely no difference in the 50-120-225.
This is not like Fenix.
I have 4 other Fenix flashlights and they all work great.
Anybody else see that problem?
 
The only 1 thing I can think it may be is that 1 of the batteries in not brand new and it may not give me the 2 highest settings.
 
I bought 2 so I'll get back with you all and make sure it is not a problem on my end. 
 
My only complaint about this light is they should have just made the cord a little longer to reach a pack easier.


----------



## Martin SH

I don't think this light really exists... not one picture! Come on please!

Martin


----------



## kwkarth

Be careful what you wish for!...

Click here for HP-10 slide show.


----------



## Polish Mike

Thanks a bunch! That looks really good!

Slightly concerned about those reports of the high output modes not being reliable on some units...


----------



## Marduke

Polish Mike said:


> Slightly concerned about those reports of the high output modes not being reliable on some units...



What reports?


----------



## kwkarth

Yeah, what reports? I initially did not think mine was as bright as I thought it should be, but it always had 4 distinct brightness levels. Then I removed the batteries and checked the voltage again. It checked ok so I put them back in and lo and behold, the brightness and memory functions operated normally. 

So, if someone is experiencing erratic operation of any kind, I would recommend resetting the uP by removing and re-installing the batteries.


----------



## AWS123

Alright.
So I did find that one of the batteries were dead.
Behold 225 lumens of headlamp power. Simply Awesome.
 
The color of this light is also a very nice white. Not even a hint of blue.
When you run with the blue it just drives you crazy.
This light is just like the PD30 as far as the spot and overall light it throws but without the blue tint the 30 has.
With the HP10 the distinction between the inner and out ring is a little much though. It does not bled together at all.
 
I still don't like the cord.
Why not just a strait cord with the option of buying an extension?
The coils of the cord are more on the side of your face than out of the way.
 
So with the cord change, this light would be a 4.5 stars for me. With a better blend of inner to outer ring and easy 5 stars.
The way its configuration is now, 4 stars.
Now a Fenix light is already at 5 stars in my book, so the 4 stars is just comparing it to what a Fenix light should be.
This baby is nice a nice headlamp. i am just a runner and very picky.
 
This baby also has the power and innovation that just blows away the Myo. 
If I can get the battery pack to reach my pack, all is good.
This light will only get used with a pack that it reaches though.
Definitely won't be my go to headlamp without a pack.


----------



## Marduke

AWS123 said:


> I still don't like the cord.
> Why not just a strait cord with the option of buying an extension?
> The coils of the cord are more on the side of your face than out of the way.



It's not straight because oddly enough, not everyone's head is the same size 

Readjust the cord clips to keep it out of the way. That's what they're there for.


----------



## arie3000

*FENIX HP10 for running?*

Right, need a headlamp for running (if my knees are cooperating for a change), and am thrown between the lenser H7 (which works on AAAs) and the HP10.

Is it possible at all to use the HP10 while running, or is it so heavy that it bumps off your head?
I really need a bright headlamp, I have a BD 0.5W thing, and that isn't bright enough - I (tried and) like the Myo XP but both of these are cheaper and seem to produce a lot more output.

I am also an (ice)climber, and it would be good to have one for that too.
The look of the HP10 is very appealing and the diffusor surely does its work, but would it work to run with 4AAs strapped to your head?

I don't carry a backpack and don't like having things on a belt or so when running, so something that I can carry on my head would be good.


----------



## Polish Mike

Marduke said:


> What reports?



kwkarth and AWS123, who seem to have been having battery issues, so no reports


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
It's best not to go beyond 3 min. on turbo .

That's not good - for heat issues.

That needs to be watched closely .

.

My HP10 should arrive tomorrow.

.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
If we remove the reflector , won't this give us very bright total flood , brighter than a Zebralight.

I ordered the difuser too , so I'll be trying it both ways.

Maybe that will make it an all-purpose headlamp , close and far.

.


----------



## JackJ

AWS123 said:


> Definitely won't be my go to headlamp without a pack.



To repeat a question already asked, but crucial to those of us looking for a running headlamp: Is the weight of the battery pack on the headstrap just too much for running?

I've never had a headlamp with 4AAs, or with a rear mounted battery case. I've done ok with the Eos, but was hoping better weight distribution with a separate case (even though it's 4AA in place or 3AAA) might be an improvement.

I rarely run with a pack, but do often wear running shorts (RaceReady brand) with multiple rear pockets where I could store a pack. If there's some good way to improvise a cord extension, I'd like to hear about that too.

Thanks all you early adopters!

Jack


----------



## strinq

Gotta say, impressive beamshots.
But 4AA's...hmmm, been an avid 123, 18650 fan. 
Still trying to convince myself to get this light.


----------



## Martin SH

Thanks very much for that! Just what I was looking for. Going to order one I think....:twothumbs

Martin


kwkarth said:


> Be careful what you wish for!...
> 
> Click here for HP-10 slide show.


----------



## kwkarth

Polish Mike said:


> kwkarth and AWS123, who seem to have been having battery issues, so no reports



Mike, I did not have a battery issue. It seems that the uP glitched, which can happen to any uP controlled light. All it took to fix was a reboot.


----------



## kwkarth

JackJ said:


> To repeat a question already asked, but crucial to those of us looking for a running headlamp: Is the weight of the battery pack on the headstrap just too much for running?
> 
> I've never had a headlamp with 4AAs, or with a rear mounted battery case. I've done ok with the Eos, but was hoping better weight distribution with a separate case (even though it's 4AA in place or 3AAA) might be an improvement.
> 
> I rarely run with a pack, but do often wear running shorts (RaceReady brand) with multiple rear pockets where I could store a pack. If there's some good way to improvise a cord extension, I'd like to hear about that too.
> 
> Thanks all you early adopters!
> 
> Jack



Using NiMh batteries, the pack mass would be noticeable. If you use neverready lithiums, the mass would decrease quite a bit. I think it weighs 70gm by itself. You might also consider placing some high density foam between cranium and batt. pack for running.


----------



## GaryF

I agree with kwkarth, for walking or biking no problems, but for the extra bouncing that comes with running the weight of the battery pack could start to be a problem. For an all night hike, which I have done a few times, it's the first light I would reach for. For a run, I'd have to weigh my options more carefully.


----------



## azjosho

Regarding using the headlamp for running. If you wear it on your head, it would be okay for a mile or two, but too heavy for much more than that. I took it on a 20 mile trail run the other night and it was great! I also have a Petzl MYO RXP. I like the diffuser better on the Petzl, but you cannot beat the run times of the HP10.

I wear the light around my waist. I'm 6'00 185 pounds with a 34" waist and it fits fine. If you want to run with a headlamp I suggest you try wearing it around your waist. It is much more comfortable and the angle that it lights the trail is better because the shadows stand out more.

This is HANDS DOWN the best running headlamp if you wear it around your waist.


----------



## Polish Mike

Azjosho, how would you compare the Myo with the HP10? Is there a noticable difference in weight/wear comfort with the added battery? Any other comments about usability and quality besides the diffuser?


----------



## Stevie

A bombardment of questions....well here's another :laughing:

The fenix website suggests the stated run times are using 2500 mAH batteries. If you were to use 2700 mAH, I presume that the run times would increase, but could the extra capacity damage the emitter??

I know the HP10 goes back to 'high' after 3 min, but is there more current being fed to the emitter when using the higher capacity batteries??

Thanks!


----------



## AusKipper

Stevie said:


> A bombardment of questions....well here's another :laughing:
> 
> The fenix website suggests the stated run times are using 2500 mAH batteries. If you were to use 2700 mAH, I presume that the run times would increase, but could the extra capacity damage the emitter??
> 
> I know the HP10 goes back to 'high' after 3 min, but is there more current being fed to the emitter when using the higher capacity batteries??
> 
> Thanks!



it would do no damage. It is extra capacity, thus the batteries maintain charge longer. It is not extra voltage.

Just like putting a bigger fuel tank on you car does not damage the motor..


----------



## JackJ

azjosho said:


> This is HANDS DOWN the best running headlamp if you wear it around your waist.



I guess I'll have to give this technique a try, eventually, as it has lots of advocates. I would think I'd miss the ability to hunt out the trail by turning my head, though.

What's your technique for mounting the HP10 on your waist?

Jack


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
first impressions ...........

When received , this light is in a hard to open Wal-Mart style stiff blister pack ....

So my first thoughts were .....................


We'll be seeing this light *SOON ....... in Wal-Mart !*

Why else would it be packed that way ?

Now I have to go assemble it .

.


----------



## Mattole

SO.. DOES THIS REALLY BLOW AWAY THE APEX PRO IN TERMS OF LIGHT OUTPUT / THROW DISTANCE? IS THIS THE ONE?


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
Can the HP10 head be easily un-screwed to access the reflector ?

Not having any luck with mine . don't wanna break it.
.


----------



## kwkarth

TooManyGizmos said:


> .
> Can the HP10 head be easily un-screwed to access the reflector ?
> 
> Not having any luck with mine . don't wanna break it.
> .



I haven't taken a pipe wrench to it yet.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
I'm beginning to think you access it from the rear. (4 screws)

Looks like the lens assembly is bonded to the case ?

I won't try to un-screw it till I've tried accesing from the rear.

.


----------



## Marko

Hmm... right from the hard-to-open blister pack, and look at the screws - seems like it has been opened already (with wrong/improper tools):






  

Oh why don't they use torx?


----------



## dcycleman

Marko said:


> Hmm... right from the hard-to-open blister pack, and look at the screws - seems like it has been opened already (with wrong/improper tools):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh why don't they use torx?


 the guy assembling it just tightened it up a hair too much


----------



## Marko

dcycleman said:


> the guy assembling it just tightened it up a hair too much



Yeah, thats why there is torque settings at electric/pneumatic screwdrivers - and thats why there are Torx, it won't slip.


----------



## Mattole

I'll try this again... how does this light compare to the Apex in terms of light output / throw? Anyone?


----------



## snoboy

A few of my first impressions after mine arrived today.

There is mention in the manual of clasps on the battery pack, and it's kind of obvious where they should be on the top and bottom the case, but they are not there. The manual says these need to be engaged if you plan to submerge the light... Not a big deal for me, but I wonder if those clasps had something to do with the delay in shipping, and eventually got ditched.

I ordered the diffuser with mine. It works. Otherwise it's a shoddy solution. It will get busted in my pack eventually I am sure. It looks like a cheap add-on. It glares. Something like Petzl's integrated diffuser would make this a killer light.

Brightness? Hard to say as it's not dark out yet, but it seems to be as bright on HI as my modded Apex, but with a more defined hot spot.

I like the UI. The flash modes are 'hidden' behind a double click of the power button, and it remembers the last brightness mode. This means I never have to cycle through the annoying flash mode. I can't imagine a real life use for flash modes anyway - unless you wanted to host a backcountry disco party! The first flash mode is that bright and fast!

The overall design is nice and compact. Smaller than the Apex.

The main strap is threaded funny, and doesn't hold it's adjustment the way it comes. You will need to tweak that.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
The hot spot is moderately tight and throws pretty far.
I don't use a headlamp for lighting up things greater than 20 feet. I mainly use it for lighting up what I'm doing with my hands.

For that reason I find myself wishing the hot spot was twice as wide as it is , and without the darkspot around the hotspot. It does not blend with the spill light.

I will be seeing if I can remove the reflector , for total bright flood - on HI .

.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
Ah-Ha .......... for those who are interested :

The front finned shroud , housing the reflector , can NOT be un-screwed without first dis-assembling the light housing from the rear. ( 4 screws) Then you must carefully remove the circuit board. Then un-screw the aluminum pill a couple of turns until it is loose enough that it can be pushed forward and allowing the front finned shroud to then be un-screwed from the pill.

Here is the reason it *must* be un-screwed from the *rear first* :

The base of the front shroud where it meets the body , forms a 5 pointed STAR . Each of those 5 star points has a hole in them . The body has 5 pins sticking out which go into those 5 holes , which prevents the front shroud from turning , until the pill is loosened from the *inside* . 

The inner part of the front shroud , inside the body , has an O-ring for waterproofing .

Removing the reflector does provide a nice , bright flood beam w/no spot , if thats what you prefer . (must make an internal sleeve to hold glass and maintain waterproofing )

But now I'm asking myself - if thats what is prefered - why not just get a Zebralight .... so maybe I will. And just put the reflector back in and leave it as it was ? With a spot .

I just had to find out why that front reflector assembly wouldn't un-screw ........

that's all .

.


----------



## kwkarth

TooManyGizmos said:


> .
> Ah-Ha .......... for those who are interested :
> 
> The front finned shroud , housing the reflector , can NOT be un-screwed without first dis-assembling the light housing from the rear. ( 4 screws) Then you must carefully remove the circuit board. Then un-screw the aluminum pill a couple of turns until it is loose enough that it can be pushed forward and allowing the front finned shroud to then be un-screwed from the pill.
> 
> Here is the reason it *must* be un-screwed from the *rear first* :
> 
> The base of the front shroud where it meets the body , forms a 5 pointed STAR . Each of those 5 star points has a hole in them . The body has 5 pins sticking out which go into those 5 holes , which prevents the front shroud from turning , until the pill is loosened from the *inside* .
> 
> The inner part of the front shroud , inside the body , has an O-ring for waterproofing .
> 
> Removing the reflector does provide a nice , bright flood beam w/no spot , if thats what you prefer . (must make an internal sleeve to hold glass and maintain waterproofing )
> 
> But now I'm asking myself - if thats what is prefered - why not just get a Zebralight .... so maybe I will. And just put the reflector back in and leave it as it was ? With a spot .
> 
> I just had to find out why that front reflector assembly wouldn't un-screw ........
> 
> that's all .
> 
> .


Good information, but why not use the diffuser for flood?


----------



## TooManyGizmos

kwkarth said:


> Good information, but why not use the diffuser for flood?




Seems to take away some of the brightness .

.


----------



## jirik_cz

this fenix diffuser works pretty well.


----------



## Marko

snoboy said:


> There is mention in the manual of clasps on the battery pack, and it's kind of obvious where they should be on the top and bottom the case, but they are not there. The manual says these need to be engaged if you plan to submerge the light... Not a big deal for me, but I wonder if those clasps had something to do with the delay in shipping, and eventually got ditched.
> 
> I ordered the diffuser with mine. It works. Otherwise it's a shoddy solution. It will get busted in my pack eventually I am sure. It looks like a cheap add-on. It glares. Something like Petzl's integrated diffuser would make this a killer light.



I didn't get those clasps either. I remember that the prototype had clasps on battery pack. 

And also I don't like the diffuser, it seems like it won't last long at the field. I think too that Petzl's version is much better, it gives better flood and it won't glare. Have to try to paint edge of the lens black, hope it helps. Or someking of integrated visor/diffuser like Myo XP has, or some extension tube kind of thing to get rid of the glare.

















Here is two pictures with HP10 on (to see the annoying glare effect)
Lens off:





Lens on:





If You twist the diffuser so that it opens horizontal (left or right) it helps just a bit, but it won't take the glare off (at the pictures seems like it may help, but unfortunately no).


----------



## TDKKP

Marko said:


> snoboy said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is mention in the manual of clasps on the battery pack, and it's kind of obvious where they should be on the top and bottom the case, but they are not there. The manual says these need to be engaged if you plan to submerge the light... Not a big deal for me, but I wonder if those clasps had something to do with the delay in shipping, and eventually got ditched.
> 
> I ordered the diffuser with mine. It works. Otherwise it's a shoddy solution. It will get busted in my pack eventually I am sure. It looks like a cheap add-on. It glares. Something like Petzl's integrated diffuser would make this a killer light.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't get those clasps either. I remember that the prototype had clasps on battery pack.
> 
> And also I don't like the diffuser, it seems like it won't last long at the field. I think too that Petzl's version is much better, it gives better flood and it won't glare. Have to try to paint edge of the lens black, hope it helps. Or someking of integrated visor/diffuser like Myo XP has, or some extension tube kind of thing to get rid of the glare.
> Lens on:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If You twist the diffuser so that it opens horizontal (left or right) it helps just a bit, but it won't take the glare off (at the pictures seems like it may help, but unfortunately no).
Click to expand...

 


Black electrical tape carefully trim to cover all around will do the trick?


----------



## azjosho

JackJ said:


> I guess I'll have to give this technique a try, eventually, as it has lots of advocates. I would think I'd miss the ability to hunt out the trail by turning my head, though.
> 
> What's your technique for mounting the HP10 on your waist?
> 
> Jack



That's why I carry a handheld too. I currently carry the Fenix LD10 which is more than enough light and is very lightweight. (the wrist strap/lanyard that it comes with sucks so either get a new one or use a toggle)

Just loosen the strap and step through it like a pair of pants.


----------



## azjosho

Polish Mike said:


> Azjosho, how would you compare the Myo with the HP10? Is there a noticable difference in weight/wear comfort with the added battery? Any other comments about usability and quality besides the diffuser?



random thoughts below....

I like the beam a lot more on the HP10 without the diffuser. For running though I always use a diffuser. I've got an extra Fenix diffuser so I am going take a knife to it this weekend and try to recess it some so that I don't get that glare that others are mentioning. I don't see how someone could wear the HP10 around their head using the Fenix diffuser without coming up with a solution for the glare.

Wearing it around my waist I don't notice a difference in weight. I tried it on my head and I definitely do notice the difference.

I'm just waiting for it to get dark and then I'm going on a long run in the woods again tonight. I'm going to try to see if I can rig the light and battery pack to the hydration pack I wear just out of curiosity.

With the HP10 you can separate the light and battery pack from the waist/head strap, with the Petzl you can't without doing some cutting.

In my last post I said "HANDS DOWN" the best... I failed to think about other people who don't run for hours at a time like myself. If you are just using this for up to an hour or two the Petzl would work just fine (assuming you can change batteries at home between each run). Any longer than that and the run times at the same lumens of the HP10 makes it a no-brainer win IMO.
- According to manufacture (i.e. around 50 lumens)
- Petzl MYO RXP - 51 Lumens for 3 hours regulated
- Fenix HP10 - 50 Lumens for 22 hours regulated


----------



## azjosho

JackJ said:


> I guess I'll have to give this technique a try, eventually, as it has lots of advocates. I would think I'd miss the ability to hunt out the trail by turning my head, though.
> 
> What's your technique for mounting the HP10 on your waist?
> 
> Jack



That's why I carry a handheld too. I currently carry the Fenix LD10 which is more than enough light and is very lightweight. (the wrist strap/lanyard that it comes with sucks so either get a new one or use a toggle)

Just loosen the strap and step through it like a pair of pants.


----------



## Polish Mike

Marko said:


> And also I don't like the diffuser, it seems like it won't last long at the field. I think too that Petzl's version is much better, it gives better flood and it won't glare. Have to try to paint edge of the lens black, hope it helps. Or someking of integrated visor/diffuser like Myo XP has, or some extension tube kind of thing to get rid of the glare.



Yeah, even without the glare problem this just isn't an elegant design at all. Petzl's sliding diffusers really are a great solution and I wish Fenix found a way to implement a similar design. 
A bit of a shame as I tended to use a diffused beam on my old Petzl about 50% of the time...


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
A screw-on diffuser lens would have been a better choice in design .

Similar to 35mm camera lens filters.

.


----------



## Polish Mike

TooManyGizmos said:


> .
> A screw-on diffuser lens would have been a better choice in design



Possibly, or an internal clip-on (like SLR lens caps) with the ability to stow it clipped onto the headband or battery case when not in use.

The thing is, with either of these options you have to find the diffuser and fumble to get it attached, obstructing the light in the process. Glorious Petzl makes it so that engaging the diffuser is as simple as switching the light on.


----------



## Mattole

I was really excited about this light, but it does not really seem to improve markedly on the Apex Pro that I already have. Oh well, I'll have to wait for Princeton Tec to upgrade the Apex again..


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
After playing with this HP10 headlamp for several hours ..........

And some personal modifications ...... (no longer waterproof)

I have decided .............


I *really* like it ................................... *a LOT* !

(and recommend you try it)

Thanks David !


----------



## Polish Mike

Oh come on, you can't come out with a statement like that and not tell us what mods you have done


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
Oh yes I can ................

I won't even bother , cause it renders it " no longer waterproof " .

And most folks are gonna prefer it stays WATERPROOF . (at the glass lens)

.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
The Mod. I made allows me to change the beam focus from a tight spot to a wider flood/spot ... 

By changing the position of the reflector shroud .


But as I said , when un-screwed for flood ........ water may seep in .

The decision to do it , depends on where you're gonna use it ...... inside or outside .

.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
HINT .................................


There are only 5 small plastic pins preventing the shroud from turning .
.
.
.
(But it will void your warranty)

.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
An additional O-ring *behind* the reflector is involved too .

.


----------



## TDKKP

Did you try the black electrical tape trick?


----------



## Chads93GT

for what its worth, im a caver and ive used this lamp for approximately 20 hours underground now. It blows away my modded apex on throw. Very bright. ITs also.......water proof. On the last trip out of the cave i was dragging my helmet behind me in the water, tossing it in the water, dunking it under water for several minutes at a time. Get it home and no condensation in the lamp. got my backup apex out of my swaygo which leaked water and IT had water inside the damn unit. I even sealed the head unit with silicone. f'ing apex. i had to run 3 full sets of batteries through it on high to generate enough heat to burn the moisture out of the lamp. Grrrrrrrrrrrr

anyway the hp10 is working great so far.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
Thanks for that report .......... good to know .
.


----------



## Chads93GT

Oh, the burn time on high is at least 7 hours. Ive ran it that long non stop without any blinking, although im not sure thats even how the light lets you know the batteries are getting low. I didn't change my batteries at all on the trip last weekend, however this past weekend i did change my batteries for the trip out becuase I wanted to run on high the entire time. by that time I was 11 hours in the cave mostly on high the whole time.


----------



## Polish Mike

Got my HP10 today, thought I would write up some first impressions.

Coming from a Petzl Tikka XP, the weight does not seem like much an issue - worn on the head, the light balances better because of the separate battery pack, and the extra 100g or so is not a big deal for transport. The added bulk is more of a downside for me - the Tikka was small enough to just throw into a bag inconsequentially - the HP10 is not only a much chunkier package, but the tangle of cable and headband means that it demands its own separate compartment in a camera bag or backpack.

The light feels really solid and inspires confidence, but does not have that "fetish object" quality - you can see seams and rough spots from the plastic molding process. The Petzl lights have a better-designed feel and superior finish, but this lamp feels more solid and serious. I have no doubts as to the durability and water-proofing of this light.

I like how the switches have a definite click and love how the interface is designed (flashing modes hidden behind a double click, well thought-out mode memory). The cable is a bit on the long side - I will consider replacing it and introducing a socket + extension for the possibility of belt mounting (anyone recommend a good connector type?). 

The bracket design means that both the lamp and battery pack can be taken off the original headband. The headband has a nice feel to it. I did have to re-thread it into a more sensible configuration to stop the length adjustment from slipping, but it's fine now. The top strap helps keep the light balanced, but is not a necessity and is easily removed. The tilt adjustment is a bit stiff, but I expect it will loosen up.

No comments on the beam quality or strength as it's the middle of the day and I'm no expert...

I may sound negative, but I'm quite impressed overall. I'm just nitpicking for the benefit of others considering this light.

EDIT: Any advice on making a beltpack extension? I'm looking at TRX high-current connectors - are these a decent choice, or maybe a standard DC-type connector would be neater? It'd also be nice to find some cable matching the original...


----------



## Swedpat

Earlier this autumn I thought to order HP10, but it was delayed. With my new order two days ago I included a HP10. According to all what I until now read I have quite high expectations. One issue I felt uncomfortable with is that it needs an overheating protection of 3 minutes. But however; the high mode of 120 lumens is also good, and it's claimed for 7,5 hours! 

I just mean that the overheating protection should be based of the need of it by a sensor. For example I highly doubt that using HP10 as cycle light when it's 20 degrees below celsius would make any risk for overheating!

Regards, Patric


----------



## Harry999

My HP10 arrived today. I like it! I'm just going out into the dark garden to try it out. :nana:


----------



## snoboy

Well, I guess you could say I was convinced to give it try after the good reports. I happen to have a job next week that involves accessing a 1000' tunnel with a stream in it, so I got two for myself, and one for a friend...

Should be able to get both on my helmet pretty easily. The buttons are small, but I can operat e them with neoprene gloves on it seems.


----------



## snoboy

Ugh double post.


----------



## Marko

snoboy said:


> I got two for myself, and one for a friend..



Did You get the battery case side clasps? Mine were missing from the package.  Luckily dealer will send those to me after they get spares from Fenix.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

Why does it need a side clasp ?

Aren't the two thumb-screws enough ?

It has a gasket inside the case .
.


----------



## Marko

TooManyGizmos said:


> Why does it need a side clasp ?
> 
> Aren't the two thumb-screws enough ?



I think IPX8 standard needs it (Submerge 2 meters deep for 30 minutes continuous lighting), i.e. You're right, those clasps are not essential.


----------



## Polish Mike

I assume it was decided that the clasps were not actually necessary for waterproofing while being fiddly, so they were discarded. Seeing as the lights are still being advertised as IPX8 and sold without the clasps, we can only assume the seal+thumbscrews do a better job than Fenix originally thought they would.

Or it could be that shipping delays or manufacturing errors of the absolutely necessary clasps drove Fenix to ship the first batches of lights without them, compromising quality for the sake of getting the lights onto the market. :tinfoil:


I hate to be a pest, but could anyone advise me whether a standard 2.5mm DC plug+socket would be fine for accommodating a detachable cord extension to the HP10, or would you recommend a specialized high-power connector (Dean's, TRX ...)


----------



## snoboy

No clasps on any of my three lights. I assumed that they had ditched them from the design at some point but not bothered to retool the moulds. I do not need super waterproofness on my lights generally, so I didn't worry about it, but perhaps I should see if I can get some if they actually exist...

Polish Mike - considering the small gauge of the wire from the battery to the light head, I imagine a standard connector will be able to hande the current. I would be more concerened about watertightness. Not only at the connection, but it could creep up the jacket of the wire and into the case.


----------



## Polish Mike

Oh, I'm sure with liberal application of heatshrink and sillicone sealant I could make it so the inside of the wire is safe. 

Water getting into the connection is not necessarily that big an issue, as far as I'm aware, but obviously a watertight connector would be preferable - I'm sure there are compact waterproof connectors for underwater camera/lighting gear and the like, but I can't find a source for any.

EDIT: Just another quick observation. I was playing with my camera earlier - I took my Ultrafire C3 and my HP10, poised both the camera and the lights at a wall in the dark and let the camera determine the correct exposure. The camera chose the same exposure settings for the C3 on high as for the HP10 on high and halved the shutter time for the HP10 boost mode. This is all as expected (half shutter speed implies a 1 f-stop increase in available light, in other words a doubling of the light power). Fun little experiment. I also checked out the emitters on both lights by shining the lights through the back of a wide angle lenns, like this guy. Fun!
Also, the beam of the HP10 is quite yellowish-green compared to the cool C3, especially on the low power settings. I prefer the C3 in that aspect.


----------



## Hawaiian Fire

I received my HP10 from 4Sevens last week. I also did not get any side clasps? Did anyone receive any? I purchased the light to replace my aging APEX. I initially bought the Energizer unit (Hard Case?) but could not stand how the battery pack kept disengaging.

I like that that the HP10 puts out more lumens compared to the APEX (60 lumen version). The controls are good. Fenix knows flashlights and UIs. 

However, I feel that the battery case should be improved. Perhaps overmolding with a grippy, low durometer plastic where the case touches the head. I would like to see lower profile screws for the battery cover (maybe incorporating a tool into the strap like the APEX). I also had to change the strap configuration to keep it from sliding. I am wondering if perhaps one of the assemble personnel is putting them on incorrectly. I wish the top strap was sewn back onto itself instead of having the molded end.

In my opinion, the diffuser needs more engineering. It doesn't work in current configuration without wearing a hat to block glare. My suggestion is to overmold the diffuser disc with opaque nylon to reduce glare. The 'c' portion should be opaque also. The HP10 has a groove in the head. Maybe a rib can be molded into the diffuser to help hold it in place. I would like to see some type of friction device in the hinge (maybe a wave washer, o-ring or bumps/detents in the 'up' and 'down' position). My diffuser is loose and flaps around in the 'down' position (there is sufficient friction in the 'up' position).

Overall, it is a good first attempt. I can't wait to see their next generation XP-G (or better?) led headllamp that accepts lithium batteries (and lithium-ion if the user is willing to use them on their head).


----------



## jirik_cz

According to Fenix the side clasps are not necessary to keep the battery pack waterproof down to 2 meters. They just forgot to update the manual.


----------



## kimck99

Hawaiian Fire said:


> In my opinion, the diffuser needs more engineering. It doesn't work in current configuration without wearing a hat to block glare. My suggestion is to overmold the diffuser disc with opaque nylon to reduce glare. The 'c' portion should be opaque also. The HP10 has a groove in the head. Maybe a rib can be molded into the diffuser to help hold it in place. I would like to see some type of friction device in the hinge (maybe a wave washer, o-ring or bumps/detents in the 'up' and 'down' position). My diffuser is loose and flaps around in the 'down' position (there is sufficient friction in the 'up' position).


 
Hi,

I agree that the diffuser needs a bit more work as the lens is too loose and the glare is a bit annoying. One work around to avoid the "flapping" diffuser lens and the glare was that I mounted the diffuser so it operations horizontally. Then, I _Sharpied_ the edge of the lens. This significantly reduced the glare and it doesn't flap is much. Then again, I suppose the amount of flap will depend on your use.

I'm sure others will have some other work arounds as folks on this forum are very creative.


----------



## AusKipper

snoboy said:


> but I can operat e them with neoprene gloves on it seems.



Well Done!! they are tiny little buttons arnt they.

My 2 showed up last night (though only 1 is for me..).

Havnt really had time to try them out properly of course, but It is pretty much the same as having a TK10 stuck on your forehead.

It has pros and cons to my other headlights, but on the whole I like it.

It definitely has far more throw than my other headlights. I will still be using the Zebra for most camp tasks I think, just because the zebra has such a nice beam profile for close work, and is very comfortable/light to wear.

I'll have to do a waterproof test on the HP10 before I get too exited though 

*edit*
Where are Marduke and Yucca Patrol and all that lot with their reviews and opinions anyway??

*edit 2*
Oh, the "flashing mode" (not strobe or SOS but the other one) is much faster than I expected/wanted. I was hoping it would be a slow beacon type thing like on the TK40, but it actually flashes 2x a second or so  . Oh well.


----------



## Offroad'Bent

I got mine yesterday. Looks more rugged than my Apex, and the longer power cord will be better for bike helmet mounting.
Better hinge, more positive switch action.
No battery level indicator, a feature I like on the Apex.

I tested the beams compared with my P4 modded Apex- the HP10 on High is a touch brighter but with a narrower, cleaner spot- the pimped Apex has more throw on high. 

On Turbo the HP's the winner hands-down, but only for a few minutes of course. 

For practical use, there's not that much difference in brightness, except that the HP10 claims 7 hours on high while the Apex seems to burn around 3-4 before dropping out of regulation into low. Anybody confirm this yet- how long does a modded Apex run on high (On alkalines) before it goes out of regulation? How long does the HP10 go on high?

Overall- I'm not going to replace Barb's upgraded Apex with an HP10 until it fails mechanically.


----------



## Polish Mike

I finally got my diffuser. Spray-painted the clip that goes around the head black. I was going to take the hinge apart for painting, but removing the metal rod that holds the two parts together proved tougher than expected and I didn't want to damage it, so I just used tape to mask off the actual diffuser. 

Diffuser now works perfectly, no glare whatsoever . Also, a tiny bit of paint seeped into the hinge, making it a tad stiffer and preventing the "flapping" problem others have described. All in all, a very good result - I think the diffuser will now stay permanently attached onto my HP10. 
At some point I might apply a coat of varnish to protect the paint from scratches.


----------



## Marko

Offroad'Bent said:


> How long does the HP10 go on high?



There was some info of burntime earlier, here:



Chads93GT said:


> Oh, the burn time on high is at least 7 hours. Ive ran it that long non stop without any blinking, although im not sure thats even how the light lets you know the batteries are getting low. I didn't change my batteries at all on the trip last weekend, however this past weekend i did change my batteries for the trip out becuase I wanted to run on high the entire time. by that time I was 11 hours in the cave mostly on high the whole time.


----------



## Marko

Polish Mike said:


> I finally got my diffuser. Spray-painted the clip that goes around the head black. I was going to take the hinge apart for painting, but removing the metal rod that holds the two parts together proved tougher than expected and I didn't want to damage it, so I just used tape to mask off the actual diffuser.
> 
> Diffuser now works perfectly, no glare whatsoever .



I was thinking of that too earlier, haven't really try yet. Did You put paint on the side of lens too, or only to the clip part? I think that the side of the diffuser lens needs some paint too. Have to try it with black marker pen.


----------



## Polish Mike

At the moment I have only painted the clip. The side of the lens might need a coat as well, but just painting the clip is a huge improvement.


----------



## Offroad'Bent

Marko said:


> There was some info of burntime earlier, here:



Thanks, I'd seen that. I was more interested in burn time for a P4 modified Apex on high for comparison.


----------



## Offroad'Bent

Offroad'Bent said:


> Thanks, I'd seen that. I was more interested in burn time for a P4 modified Apex on high for comparison.



A little searching CPF and I found burn times from 1hr 30 min to 3hr 45 min regulated on high for the Apex. If so, the HP10 goes twice as long on high at around the same brightness. 

Does this seem right?


----------



## Jagge

Do you think it could be modded easily? Like replacing driver with a simple 2 mode 150ma / 1A dirver AMC driver, by taking one AMC chip away it would make 150ma/700 mA (if you think 1A is too much). You could use three nimh AA cells (one dummy cell), makes 3 hours on high. With this setup you could use external 3.7V li-ion battery packs or try squeezing cell phone battery inside the battery case. If you can't put the driver inside the lamp head you can always put it elsewhere.


----------



## AusKipper

I have just completed the submersion testing.

Left it in a sink of water for about 2 hours on low(had to weigh the head down because its buoyant)

Still works, as far as I can tell no water got in.

My conclusion is that it is waterproof enough for my needs.


----------



## Polish Mike

Jagge said:


> Do you think it could be modded easily? Like replacing driver with a simple 2 mode 150ma / 1A dirver AMC driver, by taking one AMC chip away it would make 150ma/700 mA (if you think 1A is too much). You could use three nimh AA cells (one dummy cell), makes 3 hours on high. With this setup you could use external 3.7V li-ion battery packs or try squeezing cell phone battery inside the battery case. If you can't put the driver inside the lamp head you can always put it elsewhere.



Um, why would you really want to do this? Seems like it would be worse than the unmodded variant in pretty much every way. I don't mean to be offensive, just curious as to what advantage you would get from such a mod.

I'm not too sure, but looking at some of Fenix's promo images, the driver and switch circuitry is all on a board that's shaped specially to fit inside the headlamp, not the universal round boards you see in flashlights. 

Here: http://www.fenixlight.com/UploadFiles/2009723153157876.jpg


----------



## Marko

Polish Mike said:


> At the moment I have only painted the clip. The side of the lens might need a coat as well, but just painting the clip is a huge improvement.



I Did some testing with paint marker. It helps a lot, but because of the the flapping problem (lens won't keep properly at closed position), it still gives some glare. 












At the picture it looks like its almost gone, but it still glares even when I tried it at daytime. It may be better if used at horizontal position, but at this way it keeps lens better closed.


----------



## Jagge

Polish Mike said:


> Um, why would you really want to do this? Seems like it would be worse than the unmodded variant in pretty much every way. I don't mean to be offensive, just curious as to what advantage you would get from such a mod.



Constant ~200 lumens for hours - not just 3 minutes - for winter trail running and skiing. Current high is all too low, using lamp as it is not option at all, unfortunately. Modding original driver by disabling somehow the 3 min limit would be the best option. But can it be done?

Edit: Or do you know some other brand/model for this purpose, all aluminium headlamp at this weight and price range, about similar beam type, constant 200+ lumens as it is or after easy modding?


----------



## Marko

Marko said:


> I Did some testing with paint marker. It helps a lot, but because of the the flapping problem (lens won't keep properly at closed position), it still gives some glare.
> 
> ...it still glares even when I tried it at daytime. It may be better if used at horizontal position, but at this way it keeps lens better closed.



Did a short trip at dark forest with the painted diffuser. Glare is still there, but not as bad as it used to be. Still it disturbs so much that pretty soon I flipped lens away from light. I think maybe I'll wait for better diffuser, since it works ok without it too (enough side spill).


----------



## awesometools

HP 10 is a sweet unit, the cooling fins take a pile of strain and get hot fast when on turbo. Now you don't usually need 200+ and +100 is loads but we've got these crazy mountain bikers who like to race downhill at night . . . mind you the airflow will probably help. Received a sample of Led Lenser's new 4AA rechargable headlight today, they seem to play by different rules as they are crazy bright ( some if not most is due to the columation with the focus optics) Need to play to develop more feel .


----------



## TooManyGizmos

Snip... 
we've got these crazy mountain bikers who like to race downhill at night . . .

Oh ... you mean those guys on " ******* the movie " .... ?


----------



## Swedpat

Three days ago I received HP10. 

Short summary: 
This headlamp is very small sized, and very bright for it's size!
The beam is like TK10 but wider. At Turbomode it's claimed at the same 225 lumens as TK10, which very well correspond to the test result with ceiling bounce test. It's nearly exactly the same value as TK10.
High mode claimed at 120lm is slightly more than half the brightness of Turbomode, and quite well corresponding to the value of Fenix E20 and EagleTac P10A at high.
The 50lm mode is 42% of 120lm mode which exactly correspond to the claimed difference. The lowest mode of 7 lumens isn't possible to compare with adequate accuracy with my method with the lightmeter on the table. 

Though turbomode goes to high mode after 3 minutes you can easily press the button one time and it will again go to turbomode for 3 minutes. In the most cases the high mode of 120lm is more than adequate, yes even 50lm. For using as a cycling light 50lm is very good and more than enough in usual. And it's available for nearly a day and night with higher Ah NiMh cells! That does mean even cheap alkalines will provide several hours of constant bright light with HP10. 
I like the distinct clicks of the buttons. The battery pack behind the head is a good choice and provides a good balance. 

Fenix HP10 is the best headlamp I have ever tried and it will be my companion for several different tasks! :twothumbs

Regards, Patric


----------



## BMF

I received it two days ago and opened it yesterday to play with at home. There is a little bag with two little something that I think those are the clips people talking about, how to know for sure? There's nothing in the intruction how to assemble and parts included in the package, where to find the info about the clips? I'm new to headlamp so I even had trouble to figure out how to put the headbands together, needed to look at the picture on the manual.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

Those 2 clips go on the sideband to hold the wire from the batteries , so it won't flop down on your ear.
.


----------



## Harry999

I am currently using the Surefire FO4 Diffuser while waiting for the Fenix one to arrive. If it creates a problem I will just use the FO4, which works great!


----------



## TorchBoy

It all sounds pretty good, except for the diffuser glare and that it looks like it's asking to be bashed against a stalactite if it's left flipped up. Does the Surefire Diffuser press on securely?



Jagge said:


> Do you think it could be modded easily? Like replacing driver with a simple 2 mode 150ma / 1A dirver AMC driver, by taking one AMC chip away it would make 150ma/700 mA (if you think 1A is too much).


Because of PWM I suspect that would be 100 mA/700 mA unless you changed the programming.


----------



## ebfx

Harry999 said:


> I am currently using the Surefire FO4 Diffuser while waiting for the Fenix one to arrive. If it creates a problem I will just use the FO4, which works great!


I like the looks of the surefire diffuser, and don't mind having to slide it on and off as needed, but according to the description this is for a 1" diameter bezel... isn't the Fenix bezel closer to 0.75"? (I don't have mine handy to get an exact measurement on right now.) How did you get the F04 to work for you?

I love this headlamp, but the Fenix diffuser is driving me nuts. I painted most of the surrounding plastic black as others have described which helps alot, but it still has some annoying glare. Plus I'm concerned about the long term durability of the plastic.


----------



## Hondo

I don't have an HP10 yet, but the diffuser problem looks much the same as with the swinging diffuser on the Rayovac 1xAA headlamp. I was not satisfied with trying to black out the edges of the diffuser, and ended up making a little shade that sticks out just over the edge of the diffuser from the bottom of the lamp case. I just used a couple of layers of black electrical tape, but it has held up to quite a bit of use and carry in a pocket. It looks like you may be able to trap a layer of thin plastic or even aluminum under the diffuser clip on the HP10 to achieve the same thing with a bit more durability than my tape. Once in place, a shade will completely eliminate the glare problem.


----------



## The Magpie

ebfx said:


> Plus I'm concerned about the long term durability of the plastic.


 
Yes the difuser is a bit crapy and I doubt it'll last for long, but lets face it, at only $5 it's not a major drama to get another one eh!


----------



## Marko

Hondo said:


> It looks like you may be able to trap a layer of thin plastic or even aluminum under the diffuser clip on the HP10 to achieve the same thing with a bit more durability than my tape. Once in place, a shade will completely eliminate the glare problem.



Yes it helps with the glare, but I think it complicates twisting the lens on/off? :thinking:


----------



## Hondo

Marko said:


> Yes it helps with the glare, but I think it complicates twisting the lens on/off? :thinking:


 
I guess since it is a flip-up design, I would envision leaving the diffuser on the light all of the time.


----------



## TooManyGizmos

.
Wear the headlamp *higher* on your forehead ...... 

To put the glare just outside the boundary of your peripheral vision ..... 


and grow bushier eyebrows  :naughty: or wear a sweatband just above your eyebrows ..... 


All the above items will help to eliminate the glare ..... 
.


----------



## hopkins

Solved the glare problem on a different headlamp
(Garrity 8 LED 1W 3AA)
by gluing a small strip of rubber cut from
an old bicycle inner tube under the 
reflector to shade my face. 

might work also with the HP10.


----------



## kwkarth

hopkins said:


> Solved the glare problem on a different headlamp
> (Garrity 8 LED 1W 3AA)
> by gluing a small strip of rubber cut from
> an old bicycle inner tube under the
> reflector to shade my face.
> 
> might work also with the HP10.



I think that's potentially a great solution! The rubber is stiff enough to retain it's shape, but flexible enough to flex harmlessly in your pocket or up against a cave wall/floor. :goodjob:


----------



## Harry999

ebfx said:


> I like the looks of the surefire diffuser, and don't mind having to slide it on and off as needed, but according to the description this is for a 1" diameter bezel... isn't the Fenix bezel closer to 0.75"? (I don't have mine handy to get an exact measurement on right now.) How did you get the F04 to work for you?
> 
> I love this headlamp, but the Fenix diffuser is driving me nuts. I painted most of the surrounding plastic black as others have described which helps alot, but it still has some annoying glare. Plus I'm concerned about the long term durability of the plastic.



I simply pushed it further up onto the aluminium fins so that it was a snug fit. Given I was only using the lamp on low for reading indoors and it would only be high outside in the garden where the autumnal/winter cold kept it from overheating this was a good short-term solution. I've received the Fenix diffuser now and it I'm not having any problems with it. I tend to wear it over hat with a visor to keep rain off my spectacles outside so the glare is not an issue for me. To be honest I am not having too much of a problem with any glare even without the visor when using it for reading.

One possible solution for those who have a problem with the glare would be to take a thick coloured elastic band and cut off a portion to glue around the underside of the diffuser circumference. This should stop the glare.

Edit: Just noted someone has posted a similar idea before me! Another thought is if you have an old FO4 type diffuser (that is perhaps damaged) remove the lens from that one and slip the rubber ring over the Fenix one just far back enough that you can still have the use of the Flip up design. The thickness of the Fenix plastic diffuser and the hinge for the flip up element should help retain the rubber ring of the FO4. I hope that doesn't seem too crazy an idea...


----------



## snoboy

For me the glare is an issue, but the bigger issue, that can't be fixed, is that the diffuser will break in my pack, probably the first or second time I use it.

It needs to be more secure when it is closed, or it needs to tuck away like the Myo design...

I've found that the unaltered beam is working fine for me anyways.


----------



## marksand

Hi to everyone and happy fourth of July, what month is it anyway?

I've ridden speed rackers and fast gaited horses through heavy brush for years at night (no flies and no gnats over 12 mph) with Adcon lights and then PrinTec Apex. The plastic hinge is always a potential bust. 

Believe this or not , I broke the hinge on my second Apex (First one got traded; they are great "glass beads and iron knives".)

I TOLD THE TECH/REPAIR guy at PT that I had modified it to a higher lumen Cree, used it for over a year almost every day on the place and he said: 'send it in "attn: I don't remember his name".'
Basically I voided the warranty by taking it apart, much less putting in a hotter emitter, but you all know that Apex HAS A HEAT SINK: PERIOD.

PT sent me a brand new Apex with improved (i don't know the light source) diode IN THE BOX BRAND NEW WITH WARRANTY! (free) Now that is a company!!!!

I still ride fast at night in the Ozarks ( train for people that way also if anyone's interested in tuning a smooth gaited horse - I'm too old to post.) at night and basically the only thing you look for in that mode of riding with your head that high on 4-wheeler trails is grape vines, so your light gets abuse. it's a tribute to the Apex that I've only broken one in hundreds or more probably more miles on fast night rides.

I'm thinking of upgrading if the HP-10 hasn't got a hinge - in other words nothing to snap off easily. I love the Apex, also my TK 20 but I'm a long way from a phone (cells don't work in the real stix), road, light, house, stars from canopy, most of the time. I am not a guy in shorties so I can deal with the coil with duct tape, belive it or not my preference is hot pink- makes it easier to find stuff ---- BUT -*does the HP 10 have a little plastic hinge or a weak point.*
Sorry to you guys in really abbreviated socks, I used to attire myself that way, but arthritis from running around like a derned fool has got me horse-back. People are supposed to run when they are hungry.

In the words of Kurt Vonnegutt (sp?) "Take care of your knees; You'll miss them when they're gone."

marksand


----------



## hopkins

Look at post #47 of this thread to see a good picture of
the beefed up tilt mechanism of the HP10.
I think its much stronger than the Apex's dainty
hinge.


----------



## snoboy

Here are some up close shots of the hinge, since that is definitely the weak point of the PT Apex, and a lot of people seem interested in this as an alternative.

Time will tell, but this design feels like it will hold up. It has a 'clicky bit' instead of relying on friction, so it also holds it's position more reliably.

Bottom view:





Side view:





(shots lit by my other HP10)

I spent some quality time outside last night, geocaching in the dark. The HP10 worked really well, and was impressively bright. On Low, it is a great walking light, and on Boost, it's like daylight when there's a little bit of snow on the ground.   I did use the diffuser, and it's pretty nice on Med for a walking light, but the glare is annoying. I am going to try and keep it there, and we'll see how well it survives life in my pack, but as I have said before, I am sceptical.


----------



## desertrat21

Here's a video of the before/after of my HP10 with diffusing film (Fellowes WriteRight PDA screen protector) applied to the lens. It eliminated the beam artifacts (ie. dark halo around the spot) and added to the amount of spill, but still maintained some of the "throwiness" of the spot. It's enough of a compromise between throw and flood that I'm pretty happy and think I'll keep it this way. I just thought I'd throw it up here as an alternative to those who don't care for the other diffuser options.

Fenix HP10 headlamp video


----------



## Offroad'Bent

desertrat21 said:


> Here's a video of the before/after of my HP10 with diffusing film (Fellowes WriteRight PDA screen protector) applied to the lens. It eliminated the beam artifacts (ie. dark halo around the spot) and added to the amount of spill, but still maintained some of the "throwiness" of the spot. It's enough of a compromise between throw and flood that I'm pretty happy and think I'll keep it this way. I just thought I'd throw it up here as an alternative to those who don't care for the other diffuser options.
> 
> Fenix HP10 headlamp video



Any risk of the diffuser film getting too hot?


----------



## desertrat21

Offroad'Bent said:


> Any risk of the diffuser film getting too hot?


 
I've used it for quite sometime on a number of lights and even on a Surefire M6 with a high output Welch Allyn 1185 incandescent bulb it fared just fine. I'm addicted to the stuff as I prefer lights with lots of spill and no beam artifacts. I've not encountered a problem yet. Headlamps that are too "throwy" cause me eye strain from playing "follow the dot" but this diffuser film really helps because it really spreads the beam out.

Here it is on the M6... it gives the lens a frosted look but it's designed to have a high transmission rate (so as not to make pda screens dark) so it doesn't knock down output all that much. 





It's also more of a static cling and not an adhesive so it's easy to remove without leaving a residue.


----------



## Marko

desertrat21 said:


> I'm addicted to the stuff as I prefer lights with lots of spill and no beam artifacts.
> 
> it gives the lens a frosted look but it's designed to have a high transmission rate (so as not to make pda screens dark) so it doesn't knock down output all that much



Hmm... it is kind of weird that it really looks like frosted, but at PDA's screen You probably won't notice it at all. :thinking:


----------



## desertrat21

Marko said:


> Hmm... it is kind of weird that it really looks like frosted, but at PDA's screen You probably won't notice it at all. :thinking:


 
Most of that "frosty-ness" is due to the fact that the picture was taken with a rear sync flash and during the longer exposure I used a small light to illuminate the reflector on the M6. The WriteRight film is sort of pitted and when viewed from an oblique angle while being illuminated it looks more frosted than it is.

Here's more beamshots of diffusion/filter options for the HP10:





The AD401 does produce some pretty annoying glare. The diffuser film fares much better but doesn't have the convenience factor of being simple to flip up and out of the way. One thing that might be an option is to swap out the diffuser lens from a 4Sevens Quark Prism set with the red filter in the Fenix red filter adapter. Who knows? :shrug: Maybe it will work. They have to be close to being the same diameter.


----------



## Marko

desertrat21 said:


> The diffuser film fares much better but doesn't have the convenience factor of being simple to flip up and out of the way.



Great pictures, thanks. 

I did some testing with frosted tape earlier (inside house), but tonight was the first time I did a trip to the forest with it. I think it was Scotch Removable Tape what I used, it is matte-finish so it gives a good spill (and it is easy to remove, good for testing). Beam looked bit like the one with the diffuser film at Your pictures, and it worked very good (but I still don't know if it last a long). I still got quite good throw, and with second level it gives similar light that ZebraLight H501 gives at max - only with better throwing spot at the middle. I think that it would be very good for my purposes, I only have to find more robust film instead of removable tape.


----------



## TorchBoy

Thanks for those beam shots. That stock beam has a better halo than there is around the moon on a clear night when there are ice crystals in the upper atmosphere.


----------



## marksand

Do you know the quote from Tallulah Bankhead (undoubtably one of the greatest beauties of her time) when cast in her maybe greatest film role in "Life Boat"?

Hitchcock, the director, suggested that they shoot her with a layer or 2 of gauze or nylon stocking over the lens to make her more attractive. Bankhead, at her sharp and secure best ( she had never really had a failure on stage and a miscasting once on screen) said: " Why don't they try shooting me through linoleum.) 

Just for perspective.


----------



## marksand

Thanks to Hopkins and Snoboy!

I will order my H10 tomorrow. I could have done it through the mail today, I was sending back to 4sevens some Tenergy batteries (rechargeable AA 2300 mah) that I routinely went to the action of topping off before use. Used a MAHA C9000 in perfect working order. 2 at 800ma took over 2600 mah. 2 at 1000ma took 3000+ and I finally had to pull one of them at 3600mah duh, it was getting kind of hot. Of course should have expecte no number above 400mah even shelved for 2,5 years.

4sevens FABULOUS flashlights, my first try with the batteries they sell--- An unusual event? 
Rechargeable, charge-holding nimhs are a long way from a somple primary 123.

I usually stick to the Imedion and Eneloop for this type service. Have avoided the Rayovacs because they have advertised 2300 capability and it's pot luck whether you get the older 2100 (nothing on he package or the battery)

What has been your experience and thanks again. 

marksand hamletfermi


----------



## PsychoPilot

marksand said:


> Thanks to Hopkins and Snoboy!
> 
> I will order my H10 tomorrow. I could have done it through the mail today, I was sending back to 4sevens some Tenergy batteries (rechargeable AA 2300 mah) that I routinely went to the action of topping off before use. Used a MAHA C9000 in perfect working order. 2 at 800ma took over 2600 mah. 2 at 1000ma took 3000+ and I finally had to pull one of them at 3600mah duh, it was getting kind of hot. Of course should have expecte no number above 400mah even shelved for 2,5 years.
> 
> marksand hamletfermi


 
Did you charge them between 0.5C and 1C? If you charge them at less than 0.5C (2300*0.5=1150mah) the charge will not terminate all the time. Also, if you are using break-in mode, the charger will put a lot more than 2300mah into the battery but at a very slow rate that wont cause damage.


----------



## Nilsson

Got my HP10 from 4sevens today.

At max brightness it dosent seem brighter than my Princeton Tec Apex and the on/off switch dosent work at all some times...

Anyone else have these problems?


----------



## Swedpat

Hi Nilsson!

And nice to se another swede here! I have HP10 since some month and I have no problem with my example. I don't know the brightness of Princeton Tec Apex, but my HP10 is exactly as bright as TK10 at turbomode (measured with lightmeter and ceiling bounce test). This very well corresponds to the same stated 225 lumens.
My switch works well and I have not experienced the problem you mention. HP10 is the best headlight I ever had and I am very satisfied with it.
Obviously you have a faulty light, and you need to use the warranty and send it back for a replacement. I am really sorry, because I know how it feels...

Regards, Patric


----------



## TooManyGizmos

Nilsson said:


> Got my HP10 from 4sevens today.
> 
> At max brightness it dosent seem brighter than my Princeton Tec Apex and the on/off switch dosent work at all some times...
> 
> Anyone else have these problems?



You could open it up and make sure the circuit board is secure and not slipped out of place. See if the micro-switch is in proper alignment with the switch cover. See if it works OK when pushed directly , not using the switch cover rubber boot. Micro-switches need to be pressed pretty much "straight-on" thru the waterproofing cover.(not at an angle)

Mine is hard to press too , at an angle . The side mode switch has more resistance and is harder to press than the on/off . Works best with finger-TIP pushes.
.


----------



## Nilsson

Thanks for the tips, but wouldn't open it up void the warranty?

When I read the manual I saw that the light should have a memory function if a mode is run over 2 seconds. I had the light in high for at least 30 seconds but it goes back to low when I start it again... :sigh:

Should I send it back to 4sevens or directly to Fenix in China?


----------



## Swedpat

Nilsson said:


> Thanks for the tips, but wouldn't open it up void the warranty?
> 
> When I read the manual I saw that the light should have a memory function if a mode is run over 2 seconds. I had the light in high for at least 30 seconds but it goes back to low when I start it again... :sigh:
> 
> Should I send it back to 4sevens or directly to Fenix in China?



I think the best is to contact 4Sevens to use the warranty. Then you will receive instructions how to do. I would avoid open it to be sure not voiding the warranty.

Regards, Patric


----------



## kwkarth

Nilsson said:


> Thanks for the tips, but wouldn't open it up void the warranty?
> 
> When I read the manual I saw that the light should have a memory function if a mode is run over 2 seconds. I had the light in high for at least 30 seconds but it goes back to low when I start it again... :sigh:
> 
> Should I send it back to 4sevens or directly to Fenix in China?



Try removing and re-inserting the batteries before you give up on the modal memory. I had that problem on my HP-10 and "resetting" the uP fixed the problem. 

The other thing to try is to hold the mode button in at the level you want to memorize for about 5 seconds and you may find that the setting yo were on is now memorized.


----------



## RunnerBiker

AWS123 said:


> Alright.
> So I did find that one of the batteries were dead.
> Behold 225 lumens of headlamp power. Simply Awesome.
> 
> The color of this light is also a very nice white. Not even a hint of blue.
> When you run with the blue it just drives you crazy.
> This light is just like the PD30 as far as the spot and overall light it throws but without the blue tint the 30 has.
> With the HP10 the distinction between the inner and out ring is a little much though. It does not bled together at all.
> 
> I still don't like the cord.
> Why not just a strait cord with the option of buying an extension?
> The coils of the cord are more on the side of your face than out of the way.
> 
> So with the cord change, this light would be a 4.5 stars for me. With a better blend of inner to outer ring and easy 5 stars.
> The way its configuration is now, 4 stars.
> Now a Fenix light is already at 5 stars in my book, so the 4 stars is just comparing it to what a Fenix light should be.
> This baby is nice a nice headlamp. i am just a runner and very picky.
> 
> This baby also has the power and innovation that just blows away the Myo.
> If I can get the battery pack to reach my pack, all is good.
> This light will only get used with a pack that it reaches though.
> Definitely won't be my go to headlamp without a pack.



Are you saying that in order to run with this thing you would attach the 4 AAA's battery pack to a backpack instead of wearing it on the head strap? Tell me a bit more what you've done. I'm wanting to use this for running and biking if possible....


----------



## Swedpat

RunnerBiker said:


> Are you saying that in order to run with this thing you would attach the 4 AAA's battery pack to a backpack instead of wearing it on the head strap? Tell me a bit more what you've done. I'm wanting to use this for running and biking if possible....



My opinion: HP10 is my main cycle light and for that purpose it's great. For running I think I would experience it a bit on the heavy side with the 4AA box on the back, however. For running I think HL20 is the way to go.

Regards, Patric


----------



## Mark620

What about this idea?

Someone posted that you could use 2 Li-ions to run this light. 

Use 2 dummies or rewire the battery box to 2S2P with 14500 Li-ions (will work for 2S too).


----------



## TooManyGizmos

6v ... v/s ... 8.40v ... ??
.


----------



## jirik_cz

What is the advatage of using 2x14500 instead of 4xAA? I can't see any.


----------



## ifor powell

jirik_cz said:


> What is the advatage of using 2x14500 instead of 4xAA? I can't see any.


 
Weight.


----------



## srj19

I have an HP10 coming in the mail as we speak, I read here that the highest level however only remains on for 3 minutes and then automatically adjusts to the middle setting?

What good is that? So for extended bright light use you need to click it back to high 20 times an hour?

Other than that it sounds good.


Scott


----------



## TorchBoy

:welcome: srj19.

For extended bright light you can use high mode. The turbo mode is temporary so it doesn't overheat. That's good.


----------



## Swedpat

TorchBoy said:


> :welcome: srj19.
> 
> For extended bright light you can use high mode. The turbo mode is temporary so it doesn't overheat. That's good.



Yes, that's right. But in my opinion Fenix actually could have been made HP10 with a more massive head and/or larger cooling fins for a better heatsinking. The head is much lighter weight than the battery pack on the back side, and a slightly heavier head I think would not make it too heavy.

Regards, Patric


----------



## jankj

Swedpat said:


> But in my opinion Fenix actually could have been made HP10 with a more massive head and/or larger cooling fins for a better heatsinking.



But in my opinion Fenix actually could have made active thermal management... reducing light output at the threshold of overheating, not before. 

In my climate, cooling is not a problem when bicycling or skiing. But I can tell you, auto dimming when going downhill on a bike or skis is absolutely a deal killer. You do NOT want to loose any lumens at high speed...


----------



## TorchBoy

jankj said:


> active thermal management... reducing light output at the threshold of overheating, not before.
> ... You do NOT want to loose any lumens at high speed.


I know you'd get lots of cooling at high speed, but you're contradicting yourself there, you know. If it had active thermal management it would be making up its own mind where and when to change brightness. The way it is at present you know what it's going to be doing.


----------



## jankj

TorchBoy said:


> I know you'd get lots of cooling at high speed, but you're contradicting yourself there, you know. If it had active thermal management it would be making up its own mind where and when to change brightness. The way it is at present you know what it's going to be doing.



It would not dim down at high speed. At my temperatures, the airflow would cool it sufficiently even at moderate speed. Overheating is not really that much of an issue when you're shuffling about outdoors in 50 F / 10C or colder... 

Of course, cycling in warmer climates you could potentially have this issue. However, the bigger the speed the better the cooling. Going slower you need less light and you may choose to turn it down a notch. At least that's what I do, but hey, that's just me... as long as I can see where I'm going I like darkness.


----------



## TorchBoy

Sounds like you could be making something yourself specifically for that niche market.


----------



## srj19

So does the HP10 have anyway to keep it in the highest mode? I'm currently awaiting delivery but just noticed this "feature" in the product specs.

So if you need high light, you'll be hitting the high button 20 times an hour (since it reverts to the lower setting after 3 minutes)?

Scott


----------



## leaftye

So far I'm loving this headlamp. I rarely have to use anything but the lowest setting. I'm betting that will allow me to use one set of batteries for the entire PCT.

One question though. How do you get it to flash? Not that I have a need for it yet, but it'd be nice to know how just in case.



srj19 said:


> So does the HP10 have anyway to keep it in the highest mode? I'm currently awaiting delivery but just noticed this "feature" in the product specs.
> 
> So if you need high light, you'll be hitting the high button 20 times an hour (since it reverts to the lower setting after 3 minutes)?
> 
> Scott


 
No, nor would you want to since there's a good chance that it'd overheat the light. If you want a light that can provide that output continously, you need to look elsewhere.


----------



## jirik_cz

leaftye said:


> One question though. How do you get it to flash? Not that I have a need for it yet, but it'd be nice to know how just in case.



Just doubleclick the main switch.


----------



## TorchBoy

:welcome: leaftye.

I saw a diffuser used with an HP10 for the first time last night. It wasn't retouched with black paint/insulation tape, and provided a horrendous amount of glare. The beam looked not too bad though.


----------



## Egsise

New upgraded version comes available this month, any news on what has been changed?


----------



## leaftye

jirik_cz said:


> Just doubleclick the main switch.


 
Is it really picky or something? The power switch right? Without holding down the other button or some other funky combo? I can't seem to get it. Not a big deal, but it's a little frustrating that I can't figure it out...even though I'll probably never use it.


----------



## jirik_cz

To be exact:
1) turn on the headlamp
2) doubleclick the main switch
3) now you can switch between strobe modes with the side button


----------



## Woods Walker

Egsise said:


> New upgraded version comes available this month, any news on what has been changed?


 
Say what?


----------



## vali

A neutral XPG would be a great adition and a redesigned difusser. Maybe I am just dreaming :sigh:


----------



## Swedpat

I would wish an improved heatsinking so it could run without 3minutes limitation. This would easy done with a more massive head and/or larger cooling fins. Though this would make the total weight higher, the balance would be better.


----------



## eart

Egsise said:


> New upgraded version comes available this month, any news on what has been changed?




Are there any more news on this? My birthday is coming up, I want it


----------



## KarstGhost

vali said:


> A neutral XPG would be a great adition and a redesigned difusser. Maybe I am just dreaming :sigh:


 
:twothumbsYes, these are the two things I wish for from this head lamp. I would buy another one if they came in a neutral option.


----------



## Andrew7

I have been told it will be out in late April

I am keen to get one since I love the idea of a headlamp so you can have proper hands free however in the past I have not bothered as most headlamps had very little output or were expensive.


----------



## Egsise

Welcome.
You may want to check the Fenix HL20, same output as in HP10, and it's 20$ cheaper.


----------



## futz

Egsise said:


> Welcome.
> You may want to check the Fenix HL20, same output as in HP10, and it's 20$ cheaper.


HL20 has nowhere near the same output as the HP10.


> *Fenix HL20*
> 
> 
> 
> CREE XP-E R2 emitter
> Three levels of brightness, one flashing mode:
> 4 lumens (56 hours)
> 48 lumens (5.5 hours)
> *105 lumens* (1.8 hours)
> 
> Max beam length: 70 meters
> Electronic switch
> Digitally regulated output - maintains constant brightness
> Output automatic memory function
> Uses one 1.5V AA (Alkaline, Ni-MH, Lithium) battery





> *Fenix HP10*
> 
> 
> Cree XR-E LED(Q5) with lifespan of 50,000 hours
> 4 output levels, 3 flashing modes:
> 7 lumens, 210 Hrs
> 50 lumens, 22Hrs
> 120 lumens, 7.5Hrs
> *225 lumens*, 2.5Hrs
> Strobe, 5Hrs
> SOS, 50Hrs
> Warning Flash, 4Hrs
> 
> Max lighting distance: 120 meters
> Dual switch system for easy operation - one for turning on and off, second for output adjustment
> Digitally regulated output - maintains constant brightness
> Output memory function
> Overheat protection system
> Uses four 1.5V AA (Alkaline, Ni-MH, Lithium) batteries


----------



## Egsise

futz said:


> HL20 has nowhere near the same output as the HP10.


Yes it has, that 225 lumens is for 3 minutes only before the circuit drops it to 120 lumens.
If you dont want to switch the HP10 to turbo every 3 minutes, yes the outputs are the same.


----------



## Andrew7

I think the three min thing is a bit of a pest but I guess 120lumens for 7hours is still much better than 105 for a bit under 2hrs. 

Also the 225lumebs for three mins is still going to be handy if you wanted to spot something.


----------



## Egsise

Andrew7 said:


> I think the three min thing is a bit of a pest but I guess 120lumens for 7hours is still much better than 105 for a bit under 2hrs.
> 
> Also the 225lumebs for three mins is still going to be handy if you wanted to spot something.


Well, HL20 weights very little and the single AA cell can easily be changed even when the headlamp is on your head.
3 spare cells in your pocket and you have the same runtime..

120 or 105 lumens, human eye can't see the difference.

I agree, 225 lumens even for 3 minutes is handy, and easier to use than dedicated 300+ lumen thrower which you carry as backup...


----------



## Ace12

I would love the HP10 if it used 2 CR123a batteries, like the Princeton tech Apex Pro has. I wonder if fenix is considering it? Better yet, I wonder if the battery pack from an Apex pro can be put on an HP10.


----------



## uibo

Is the weight the issue? 
How many volts does this thing need to operate normally?
I wonder if I could just put in a single 3.6V AA battery and short the other slots.

Edit:
OK I found a post on a russian forum saying that the brightness starts to decrease:
in the minimum setting at 2.6V
in the higher settings between 3.0V and 3.6V
in turbo mode at 4.2V

Since the voltage of Li-ion batteries should not be decreased below 3.5V (some sources even claiming 3.6V) anyway I think a mod to use a 3.7V AA or a cellphone battery is feasible. I just measured the battery of my old cellphone right after charging, it was about 4.1V, before charging the phone was showing it as nearly empty at 3.6V.


----------



## CyberCT

Man I really want this headlamp but it's sill on backorder. Release estimated mid-May but we're past that.

Anyone have details on when it will be available for purchase?


----------



## Porsche

CyberCT said:


> Man I really want this headlamp but it's sill on backorder. Release estimated mid-May but we're past that.
> 
> Anyone have details on when it will be available for purchase?


+1


----------



## Ace12

I'm gonna wait for a 2x123A version


----------



## Lynx_Arc

I am interested in a 2AA version myself but it never even got produced unlike the 1AA and 4AA versions.


----------



## GTI

Ace12 said:


> I would love the HP10 if it used 2 CR123a batteries, like the Princeton tech Apex Pro has. I wonder if fenix is considering it? Better yet, I wonder if the battery pack from an Apex pro can be put on an HP10.


----------



## CyberCT

Well May is coming closer to an end so hopefully next week we will have an update. I'm really interested in this light.


----------



## vizlor

CyberCT said:


> Well May is coming closer to an end so hopefully next week we will have an update. I'm really interested in this light.



Don't be suprised if it takes another month.


----------



## Lynx_Arc

vizlor said:


> Don't be suprised if it takes another month.



or two.. or four......


----------



## spyros

Is this headlamp suitable for trail running?


----------



## vaska

spyros said:


> Is this headlamp suitable for trail running?



Sure.


----------



## mmeiser

*Waiting for backordered FENIX HP10*

I've had two Fennix HP10 on backorder for about two months now.

Am getting extremely impatient.

If anyone knows anyone with them in stock please speak up.

I'm going to email fennix directly and see if I can't get some more info.

I have a 620mile bike race coming up next month and I'd really like it by then.


----------



## leaftye

Mine is still acting funky. I'm not sure I ever got the strobe to work, but one time late at night in a hostel it starting started strobing like crazy...although this was on the first button click. Sometimes it doesn't turn on the first time...or second. I think it's time for me to send mine in for warranty service. At least I can get it to turn on, but it'd be nice to have full functionality. I still like it though. I really liked it one night when a juvenile cougar kept coming back all night to visit my food bag that was 10 yards away.


----------



## ColoradoClimber

I was informed that HP10 shipping to US next week. Just a FYI.


----------



## CyberCT

ColoradoClimber said:


> I was informed that HP10 shipping to US next week. Just a FYI.


 
Cool, thanks for the update. Where did you hear it from?


----------



## Woods Walker




----------



## ColoradoClimber

From Fenix directly.


----------



## eebowler

Have anyone changed out the LED in their headlamps as yet for a Seoul LED? I've seen the stock beam pattern on the HP10 and think it's horrible for a headlight...

Thanks.


----------



## Szemhazai

*eebowler*. the beam is annoying but replacing Q5 for SSC P4 U1/U2 will not make anything good for that headlamp - the better way will be Cree XP-G.


----------



## leaftye

Andrew7 said:


> Also the 225lumebs for three mins is still going to be handy if you wanted to spot something.



3 minutes was long enough to scare off a cougar that kept returning to my campsite all night. The normal high mode was decent, but the extra range of 225 lumens was appreciated. Of course I would have desired enough light to scare it to the edge of the canyon and over the ridge, but that would probably require another zero or two at the end of the lumen rating.


----------



## leaftye

A couple questions and a comment.

Does the light get dimmer or suddenly die as the batteries go dead?

Would it be brighter with lithium batteries? Maximum brightness that is. Compared to Nimh batteries. I'm wondering if the voltage makes a difference.

Finally, I've been having some problems with my power button. I haven't heard of anyone else having problems, so I'm not worried. It also explains why I had been having problems getting my strobe/SOS feature to work. I'm sending it back for RMA today. I'm going to miss the light. I've been going night hiking a lot lately and really appreciate the duration & output on medium and high when walking on rough trail.


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## jonblack

Hello everyone. I'm a new member here. Someone on another message board recommended this headlight to me as a replacement for my el cheapo $5 headlight, which I like very much. Just wanted to pop in and say "hi." I will now try to go through the threads and learn as much as I can about headlights so I can make a good decision buying one in the $40-60 range.

Take care
jonblack


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