# 1D lights?



## flatline (May 8, 2014)

So it's been a couple of years since Eveready released their 1D "economy" light and Rayovac has the VB1DLED (which I've found online but not actually seen in person). There's also an Eveready 1D light sold with a 6v LED lantern that works, but flickers horribly for some reason.

Has a half-way decent 1D flashlight been brought to market yet?

I look at my Quark and Zebra AA lights as proof that a single alkaline cell can do some really nice things, but I don't see anyone making 1D lights that aren't made as cheaply as possible.

Is there just no market for 1D lights that might actually survive a fall?

(Disclaimer, I'm still using a handful of the PR bulbs from the Eveready "economy" lights that I purchased a couple of years ago. They work surprisingly well when transferred into more durable hosts that protect the bulb from the battery).

--flatline


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## GeoBruin (May 8, 2014)

Fenix should make a "D01". Just like the E01 but with a D cell. Can you imagine? Tough, simple, efficient. Light for days.


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## hombreluhrs (May 8, 2014)

CountyComm has the TLL .... Ive been wanting it for a while but never pulled the trigger. It looks decent.


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## flatline (May 8, 2014)

hombreluhrs said:


> CountyComm has the TLL .... Ive been wanting it for a while but never pulled the trigger. It looks decent.



That's very close to what I have in mind. If only it were directional.

I suppose I could tape it up some so that it doesn't blind me when I turn it on in the dark.

--flatline


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## hombreluhrs (May 8, 2014)

Yea I would think with a lantern type light like that it should come on low first....but I guess you could just point it down at the ground when you turn if on.


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## GeoBruin (May 9, 2014)

Wow, that that TLL is very cool. Just ordered one thanks to this thread. 

I think you could make a little shroud that would keep it from blinding you. I might try my hand with some PVC.


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## StorminMatt (May 9, 2014)

There's always the Lumintop SD10:

http://www.lumintop.com/Products_45.html#.U2yr79q9KSM

This light uses an XM-L2 emitter, and will run on 1xD, 3xAA (in a carrier), or 1x32650. It will also run on an 18650 or 26650 in a sleeve. Keep in mind that, due to the limitations of boost converters, output is significantly lower on 1xD than with the other battery configurations.


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## eff (May 9, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> There's always the Lumintop SD10:
> 
> http://www.lumintop.com/Products_45.html#.U2yr79q9KSM
> 
> This light uses an XM-L2 emitter, and will run on 1xD, 3xAA (in a carrier), or 1x32650. It will also run on an 18650 or 26650 in a sleeve. Keep in mind that, due to the limitations of boost converters, output is significantly lower on 1xD than with the other battery configurations.



Here's Selfbuilt review on the light : http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...3xAA-1x26650-32650)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS


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## Swedpat (May 9, 2014)

I would like a 1D light, if it was regulated at 100lm or so.


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## NutSAK (May 9, 2014)

There was an Elektrolumens Blaster 1D available back in 2007-08 or so. It had a Seoul P4 w/IMS reflector and micropuck driver. Output was about 30 lumens with looooong runtime. It was mostly a task/emergency light. It was also available or can easily be modified with two micropucks to bring up the output but, of course, the runtime would suffer. The Elektrolumens blasters have excellent build quality--thicker and heavier than D-cell Maglites. 

Sorry, I won't part with mine. ;-) But, you might try putting a WTB thread up in the B/S/T section.

Here is an old picture of some Elektrolumens lights with the 1D:







left to right:

1. Blaster 1R
2. Blaster 1D
3. Ohio 2C 
4. Ohio 1C
5. Blaster 3 (front)


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## parnass (May 9, 2014)

What type of battery do you (would you) guys run in your 1D lights? I want to steer clear of alkaleaks.

A 1D NiMH could be quite expensive and isn't supported by many battery chargers.


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## NutSAK (May 9, 2014)

I keep a AA Eneloop in mine with a D-size adapter. If I plan to use it for a while, I just drop a alkaleak D-cell in there, but I don't store it that way.

That's one of the great things about the Blaster 1D. It will run fine on a wide variety of cell sizes (AAA, AA, C, and D) with adapters.


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## T45 (May 9, 2014)

I have always thought a C or D cell twisty/mini would be a great idea.


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## flatline (May 9, 2014)

The appeal for me of a 1D light is that with the proper adapters (which I already have), you can stuff anything from a AAA to a D cell in it. I've got a bunch of unmatched partially used batteries of various sizes and a 1D light could eventually consume them all.

If the 1D light is actually a pleasure to use, I'd use it more and therefore burn through my stash even faster (a good thing, really!).

--flatline


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## NutSAK (May 9, 2014)

flatline said:


> The appeal for me of a 1D light is that with the proper adapters (which I already have), you can stuff anything from a AAA to a D cell in it.



Me too: 


NutSAK said:


> That's one of the great things about the Blaster 1D. It will run fine on a wide variety of cell sizes (AAA, AA, C, and D) with adapters.


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## braddy (May 10, 2014)

The D adapters work in the C9000, and would be able to charge two batteries at a time, which would be fine for your needs.

You could also buy that unsmart charger from Harbor Freight on sale for about 15 dollars.

Tenergy makes a good LSD D battery.


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## marinemaster (May 10, 2014)

I remember Elektrolumens 
I had two of them. This was back in 2004 or 2005 for sure, the first Luxeon 1 lights I think.

I would say a twisty 1C would be awesome
1D is just too big.


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## jabe1 (May 10, 2014)

I would love to have a 1D body that a Peak Logan head would thread into.....imagine the runtime, especially with a QTC pill installed.

where's some enterprising person with a lathe?


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## flatline (May 10, 2014)

eff said:


> Here's Selfbuilt review on the light : http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...3xAA-1x26650-32650)-Review-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS




Ok, looks like someone made a decent 1D light. It uses PWM, but I can live with that if I can't find anything better.

I tried to find someone who sells it and could only come up with an Ebay seller (which I am loathe to do). Anyone know where I could purchase the SD10 from a reputable dealer?

--flatline


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## Speedfreakz (May 10, 2014)

I wouldn't mind a light like this too


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## braddy (May 10, 2014)

What about not being regulated?


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## GeoBruin (May 10, 2014)

jabe1 said:


> I would love to have a 1D body that a Peak Logan head would thread into.....imagine the runtime, especially with a QTC pill installed.
> 
> where's some enterprising person with a lathe?



So I actually had a custom tap made so I could make my own tubes for the Eiger. I've done a couple experiments including a rectangular flat body with two battery tubes side by side and two Eiger heads (I call it my Peak Hydra) 

I could do a D cell body with 1 (or 2 or 3!) Eiger heads. It would be cool. I could do one high output head, one mule, and one high CRI or any combination really.


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## braddy (May 10, 2014)

I think someone should make a Pak-Lite, that pops onto a D battery, instead of just the 9 volt, and that will run forever, a light dedicated to black outs.


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## flatline (May 11, 2014)

braddy said:


> What about not being regulated?



I prefer regulation and current controlled output, but I'll tolerate non-regulated output and PWM if there are no other options at an acceptable price point.

At this point, the options seems pretty slim, so if you're aware of an unregulated 1D light, I'd love to know about it.

--flatline


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## vicv (May 11, 2014)

I'm wondering what the appeal would be to be honest unless you're not comfortable with li ion cells. A single 18650 will have the same or better output and runtime in a much smaller light


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## flatline (May 11, 2014)

vicv said:


> I'm wondering what the appeal would be to be honest unless you're not comfortable with li ion cells. A single 18650 will have the same or better output and runtime in a much smaller light



The appeal is that I have a stash of partially used C and D cells that I can only use in a single cell flashlight since I have no way of reliably matching them in pairs or triplets. If I had a 1D light that I liked using, I could burn through all those cells with that light.

--flatline


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## vicv (May 11, 2014)

Good point


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## leon2245 (May 11, 2014)

GeoBruin said:


> Fenix should make a "D01". Just like the E01 but with a D cell. Can you imagine? Tough, simple, efficient. Light for days.




Now everybody just hold on. That's a fine idea and all, the D01, but don't sit there & try to leap frog my AA version of it- I don't think fenix has made a single mode AA twisty since the civictor v1.


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## GeoBruin (May 11, 2014)

Whoa now. Many of the applications being discussed here are very low power draw lights intended to last forever. At very low currents, an Energizer D cell is rated at 18,000 mah.

Quality low self discharge rechargeable NiMH D cells are rated from 8,000 - 10,000 mah and are capable of insanely high current draw. 

To get that kind of capacity, you would have to run several of even the best 18650s at which point your light isn't so small anymore. 



vicv said:


> I'm wondering what the appeal would be to be honest unless you're not comfortable with li ion cells. A single 18650 will have the same or better output and runtime in a much smaller light


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## flatline (May 11, 2014)

I've looked a bit harder and still can't find a source for the Lumintop SD10 that isn't Ebay.

Selfbuilt reviewed two versions, a cool white with smooth reflector and a neutral with an orange peel reflector. I definitely would want the later. The Ebay listings, naturally, don't specify what's actually for sale.

*sigh*

--flatline


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## bansuri (May 11, 2014)

GeoBruin said:


> Wow, that that TLL is very cool. Just ordered one thanks to this thread.
> 
> I think you could make a little shroud that would keep it from blinding you. I might try my hand with some PVC.



I got the TLL when it came out, the idea is great, but the execution prevents it from getting as much use as it should.
Specifically: the ON function relies on the anodizing in the tailcap as an insulator, mine flashes ON as the cap is screwed on in a couple places so I know that the anodizing isn't perfect.
Other manufacturers get around this by removing the tailcap from the equation by putting a PCB inside the tailcap that makes contact between the end of the battery tube and the PCB. Doesn't matter if the ano gets worn. I have minimized the wear and spurious contact points by putting some thick grease on the threads.
Additionally the plastic diffuser dome is not an item offered as a replacement part in the event of breakage. This light is heavy, I suspect the dome wouldn't survive a drop on a hard surface. Hope I don't find out. A replacement kit with white and some other colors would be a great offering.
On the plus side: It works as advertised, is easy to swap emitters, has a handy 1/4-20 receiver on the butt end, and comes in a nice tube for protecting it in transport.
The lack of hotspot makes it nice for photography, we've used it camping - especially nice on the low mode, it also does well lighting up a room during a power outage if you place it up high and let the ceiling bounce light the room.


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## Mr Floppy (May 12, 2014)

leon2245 said:


> Now everybody just hold on. That's a fine idea and all, the D01, but don't sit there & try to leap frog my AA version of it- I don't think fenix has made a single mode AA twisty since the civictor v1.



Some one has done a D version of the E01, albeit with magnets and wire. I've been trying to do some 3D printing for my D cell light but access to 3D printing is not cheap. 

In the mean time, here's an easy-ish AA conversion of an E01. Like to do a better job though ... using 3D printing ...


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## flatline (Dec 9, 2017)

It's been 3+ years since this thread died. I'm sad to say that I never picked up a Lumintop SD10 before they disappeared. It's now super easy to find cheap 1D flashlights at hardware and grocery stores, but they're so tremendously poor quality that they don't survive long enough to use up the battery that they come with.

Now that we're approaching the end of 2017, is anyone aware of any decent multi-mode flashlights that can run on a single D cell?

--flatline


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## vicv (Dec 9, 2017)

The reason why good ones don't exist is why? A single 18650 light will be much brighter and more ergonomic. Same for a 26650 light but even better runtime. Most people don't have NIMH d cells and a 3xAA for people not wanting lithium ion compatibility will also provide better brightness/runtime than a d as no need for inefficient boost circuit


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## bykfixer (Dec 9, 2017)

One thing to keep in mind...
Rayovac and Energizer are battery making companies who sells flashlights. Point being "sell batteries". 2 cell lights require 2x the batteries, therefore 2x the batteries sold vs a 1D light. 
Yeah a 1D would be great, but they never sold well due to brightness issues during the incan days. Kel-Lite did a 1D that took two half D cells to get the brightness of 2 batteries in series. It was about as popular as a tooth ache due to lack of batteries. 
(May have been done by LA Screw as well.)

I think some folks here have done Maglite 1D mods but that's for another day I suppose...


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## reppans (Dec 9, 2017)

flatline said:


> The appeal for me of a 1D light is that with the proper adapters (which I already have), you can stuff anything from a AAA to a D cell in it. I've got a bunch of unmatched partially used batteries of various sizes and a 1D light could eventually consume them all.
> 
> If the 1D light is actually a pleasure to use, I'd use it more and therefore burn through my stash even faster (a good thing, really!).
> 
> --flatline



Burn em up as lanterns using AAA and AA lights... your Quark can do it (any battery chem/size).


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## fivemega (Dec 9, 2017)

*It's always possible to have someone shorten and rethread a M*glite similar to these:*






















*As you know, power is equal to voltage times current and since D cell alkaline maximum current capability is about 0.9 Amp (with acceptable capacity) and voltage of 1.2V under load so maximum wattage is about 1 watt (1.2x0.9=1.08) which is too low for 1D size and weight flashlight. 
Flashlight engineers can not increase current draw in order to get more power (wattage) so they increase voltage by adding number of cells like 2 cell, 3 cell and... which results longer and heavier flashlight. For example 3 cell has 3.6x0.9=3.24 watt.
Remember, this statement is for primary alkaline cells which is readily available to average people with fair price. 
When you go with rechargeable cells like NiMH D size, then your voltage is still same but you can raise current to say 5 Amps which means 1.2x5=6 watt
With new technology 26650 you can go even more while drawing same 5 Amps. 3.7x5=18.5 watt
Another possibility is 2 serial 18650 and in this case: 7.4x5=37 watt.
Obviously, each system has it's own good or bad points.
Increasing current draw is also limited to switch capability and resistance of other electrical connections.*


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## scout24 (Dec 10, 2017)

I feel 1xAA lights have gotten to the point with output, efficiency, and multi modes that a 1D Mag with choice of emitter and reflector (smooth or LOP) would sell well enough to justify building them.


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## vicv (Dec 10, 2017)

Those 1xaa lights require eneloops for their output. Same would be true for d cells


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## bykfixer (Dec 10, 2017)

My Pelican 2350 (1xAA) puts out 175 lumens on alkalines or eneloops. 
175 lumens from a 52.xx mm Maglite head is pretty dawg gone bright considering. Something in the neighborhood of 40k+ candela... yeah, a 1D Maglite with an LED like the Pelican has would satisfy many-a consumer's flashlight needs with a train car load of runtime. 

Scout, I fear a secret pact was made between LED makers and battery makers that around 1 hour of runtime on high output will satisfy the average person's thirst for brighter while selling more batteries and cooking LED's quicker. Speculation on my part, but history causes me to think it could be true....
A few years ago "100,000" hours was the shout. Then "50,000"... now it's "30,000" or even "10,000" in some cases.

I also noticed Maglite's newest stuff does not include batteries. Due to rechargeables taking over the battery makers are hemorraging $ and Mag's market is steadily shrinking... so I also speculate whatever pact those 2 once had has turned into "you're on your own brutha"...


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## scout24 (Dec 10, 2017)

I was thinking Fivemega, in the spirit of his "What's Missing" threads... A stubbier shorty Mag, either alkaline D cells, Eneloop adapters, etc. They wouldn't be cheap, but multimode, 100lm on high with three 'Loops or Energizer lithium primaries if you didn't want to run a D cell? Dang. Tailstand like a champ for ceiling bounce, runtime measured in "how many power outages since we changed those cells?" and I'd be picking out colors.


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## puglife (Dec 10, 2017)

flatline said:


> It's been 3+ years since this thread died. I'm sad to say that I never picked up a Lumintop SD10 before they disappeared. It's now super easy to find cheap 1D flashlights at hardware and grocery stores, but they're so tremendously poor quality that they don't survive long enough to use up the battery that they come with.
> 
> Now that we're approaching the end of 2017, is anyone aware of any decent multi-mode flashlights that can run on a single D cell?
> 
> --flatline



Lumintop SD4A may run with 1xD >> https://www.banggood.com/Lumintop-S...HI-1000LM-14500-LED-Flashlight-p-1046678.html


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## vicv (Dec 10, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> My Pelican 2350 (1xAA) puts out 175 lumens on alkalines or eneloops.
> 175 lumens from a 52.xx mm Maglite head is pretty dawg gone bright considering. Something in the neighborhood of 40k+ candela... yeah, a 1D Maglite with an LED like the Pelican has would satisfy many-a consumer's flashlight needs with a train car load of runtime.
> 
> Scout, I fear a secret pact was made between LED makers and battery makers that around 1 hour of runtime on high output will satisfy the average person's thirst for brighter while selling more batteries and cooking LED's quicker. Speculation on my part, but history causes me to think it could be true....
> ...



Interesting. Didn't think an alkaline could put out that much current


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## vicv (Dec 10, 2017)

puglife said:


> Lumintop SD4A may run with 1xD >> https://www.banggood.com/Lumintop-S...HI-1000LM-14500-LED-Flashlight-p-1046678.html



That's a cool light. Wish I could find that as a host. Wonder what the output would be on a D cell. 150-200 lumens probably


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## gurdygurds (Dec 10, 2017)

Dude..........this would be amazing.


GeoBruin said:


> Fenix should make a "D01". Just like the E01 but with a D cell. Can you imagine? Tough, simple, efficient. Light for days.


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## fivemega (Dec 14, 2017)

scout24 said:


> A stubbier shorty Mag, either alkaline D cells, Eneloop adapters, etc. They wouldn't be cheap, but multimode, 100lm on high with three 'Loops or Energizer lithium primaries if you didn't want to run a D cell? Dang. Tailstand like a champ for ceiling bounce,


*Did you mean something like this?
Or this?
Perhaps this?*


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 14, 2017)

After 10 Years of looking i manged to find an 1D flashlight in the UK, only One Direction PROBLEM 

And CPF is SLOW, SLOW, SLOW.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1D-FLASH...311616?hash=item48a5faa2c0:g:RRoAAOSwWxNYudsJ

John.


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## peter yetman (Dec 14, 2017)

Had me going there for a bit, John.
P


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## flatline (Dec 14, 2017)

puglife said:


> Lumintop SD4A may run with 1xD >> https://www.banggood.com/Lumintop-S...HI-1000LM-14500-LED-Flashlight-p-1046678.html



I've got one of these coming. I saw some older reviews that said that 1D operation stops working shortly after receiving the light, but the more recent reviews seem positive. Hopefully Lumintop has improved the boost circuit since those older reviews were written.

--flatline


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 14, 2017)

Why are 1D flashlight only available from the the US, None of the Asia sellers have them, and the shipping from the US for 1x 1D flashlight is like £15-£17 on eBay just for shipping.


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## pc_light (Dec 14, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Why are 1D flashlight only available from the the US, None of the Asia sellers have them, and the shipping from the US for 1x 1D flashlight is like £15-£17 on eBay just for shipping.


1D cells are rare and expensive in Asia, hence not much use/demand compared to AA as far as "stock" lights go.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 14, 2017)

With todays improved technology 1D lights are not as needed. LEDs have come a long way since the first 1D LED lights. I've converted 4AA lights with cartridges to LED and 1D use and also have bought 1D energizer garden lanterns plus some older 1D plastic energizer lights that I bought to harvest the PR base dropins for other incan lights. Energizer has updated its 1D LED offerings several times from dropin PR base bulbs to integrated 5mm with optics to now SMD LED with designed reflectors but these are still just a step up from what I consider "disposable" lights. The fact that you can put 3-4 AAs in the size of a D cell and can use rechargeables or lithium AAs and bypass the chance of leakage ruining the light I see little need for a 1D cell light other than what Energizer is making, the engineering to make a higher quality multimode 1D sized light would be a lot better suited for better battery selections like 3/4AA, 18650 or larger even.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 14, 2017)

Lynx_Arc said:


> With todays improved technology 1D lights are not as needed.



Oh, I agree with all of that, but I think some of us are coming at it from the other direction.

It's not that we want a great light, and are thinking a 1D would be a good way to provide it.

It's that we have spare 1D cells lying around, and would like to use them up.

Ideally, in a low-intensity, vampire/cockroach unit. Something that would put out 0.5 lumens for months and months on end, for instance.

Or the "Fenix D01" idea--a tough, low output light in the 10 lumen range that would last for weeks.

I, too, wish there were a light in this niche. 

Actually, I would be happy with a simple cylinder that let me drop in a 1D cell. Then it has a threaded cap on the top that is pre-tapped for a Fenix E01 head.

You thread your E01 head in there, and you have your D01 just like that. Lasts about 10 times as long, which is pretty long to begin with.

I would far rather have that than going for a stubbier Maglite--I don't want the high-output, or the reflector, or the variable focus. Just a simple, reliable cockroach that will run on my left-over D-cells.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 14, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> Oh, I agree with all of that, but I think some of us are coming at it from the other direction.
> 
> It's not that we want a great light, and are thinking a 1D would be a good way to provide it.
> 
> ...


My battery drainer was comprised of battery holder(s) and a variable resistor and an ammeter and maybe a boost circuit that way when the batteries puked I didn't have a damaged light to deal with.


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## puglife (Dec 15, 2017)

flatline said:


> I've got one of these coming. I saw some older reviews that said that 1D operation stops working shortly after receiving the light, but the more recent reviews seem positive. Hopefully Lumintop has improved the boost circuit since those older reviews were written.
> 
> --flatline



I hope you will do a review :naughty:


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## CarpentryHero (Dec 15, 2017)

Lumintop SD10 has been a reliable 1D flashlight, I know it can take a lithium battery but I bought it to run a D cell


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## fivemega (Dec 15, 2017)

Lynx_Arc said:


> With todays improved technology 1D lights are not as needed.


*Needed by whom and for what purpose?*


lampeDépêche said:


> It's that we have spare 1D cells lying around, and would like to use them up.


*Or free D cell supplied by company.*


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## archimedes (Dec 16, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> Oh, I agree with all of that, but I think some of us are coming at it from the other direction.
> 
> It's not that we want a great light, and are thinking a 1D would be a good way to provide it.
> 
> ...



Yes, these have been done in various forms ... like the milky candle, or wquiles joule thief, etc

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...uple-of-LED-lights-using-Joule-Thief-circuits


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## scout24 (Dec 16, 2017)

Well, I broke down yesterday at Home Depot and spent $2.98 on an Eveready 1D plastic light. Same size as the 2D basically, but with a giant spring and a pedestal inside for lack of a better word to stop the battery from dropping in further than intended. Plastic lens, stippled plastic reflector, the switch action is suprisingly decent. Tailstands, has anti-roll, and is very lightweight. About twice as bright as my E01, I'm going to do a runtime test on it. I'm sure it's not regulated, and it will dim over time. EVE3151 is the model number. Mine's a spiffy red one. I came close to getting the 2-pack for $5.00, but they're not flying off the shelves and I figured there may be a few left if it seems decent...


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 16, 2017)

scout24 said:


> Well, I broke down yesterday at Home Depot and spent $2.98 on an Eveready 1D plastic light. Same size as the 2D basically, but with a giant spring and a pedestal inside for lack of a better word to stop the battery from dropping in further than intended. Plastic lens, stippled plastic reflector, the switch action is suprisingly decent. Tailstands, has anti-roll, and is very lightweight. About twice as bright as my E01, I'm going to do a runtime test on it. I'm sure it's not regulated, and it will dim over time. EVE3151 is the model number. Mine's a spiffy red one. I came close to getting the 2-pack for $5.00, but they're not flying off the shelves and I figured there may be a few left if it seems decent...


I have the first generation of that light with the PR base dropin and slide switch and have been somewhat tempted to get the current generation for the SMD led and boost circuit to tinker with and yes the switch is a decent one now (clicky). The PR base dropin I put in several incan lights using 2AA nimh batteries so the voltage overdrive is less and it works fine but some folks have had them go poof using 2AA. I recall that Energizer makes an actual 1D plastic light, not a converted 2D shell but the only way to buy them I found was some sort of light package with other lights maybe a 6v lantern and other D lights I can't remember.


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## flatline (Dec 16, 2017)

scout24 said:


> Well, I broke down yesterday at Home Depot and spent $2.98 on an Eveready 1D plastic light. Same size as the 2D basically, but with a giant spring and a pedestal inside for lack of a better word to stop the battery from dropping in further than intended. Plastic lens, stippled plastic reflector, the switch action is suprisingly decent. Tailstands, has anti-roll, and is very lightweight. About twice as bright as my E01, I'm going to do a runtime test on it. I'm sure it's not regulated, and it will dim over time. EVE3151 is the model number. Mine's a spiffy red one. I came close to getting the 2-pack for $5.00, but they're not flying off the shelves and I figured there may be a few left if it seems decent...



That's a pretty typical price for a 2-pack around here both at Kroger (grocery store) and the various hardware stores (Home Depot, Lowes, etc).

The current 1D model is better than the previous model that used a PR-bulb since the battery would eventually smash in the bottom of the PR-bulb and it would no longer make an electrical connection. I'm still waiting to see if the current 1D model will out live the battery it was sold with.

Edit: Whoops! I guess I'm a generation behind. I just saw what you're talking about at Target with a real LED and a reflector rather than a 5mm LED and an optic. 2-pack was $6. Switch is the same as the previous generation, but everything else is better (brighter, beautiful beam, nice tint). I'm actually really impressed with these.

--flatline


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## scout24 (Dec 19, 2017)

80 hours and still going strong. I did toss the oem battery and install a Duracell alkaline before starting. It has dimmed, and is E01-on-a-fresh-cell bright right now. And the E01 makes the tint look awesome.


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## scout24 (Dec 21, 2017)

9am today was 120 hours. Still comprable to a fresh E01, and still going strong.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 21, 2017)

The capacity of a D-cell is more than 10 times that of an AAA cell.

Eveready says that at a constant draw of 25ma, their AAA cell will give about 1100 mah, their D cell about 17,000mah.

I'd say you are going to be giving us updates for several weeks, Scout!


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Dec 21, 2017)

Yes, D's have an insane amount of capacity if drained very slowly. Up to 25,000 mAh if the current is a trickle. But you'd only get that with a battery-vampire light, and most flashlights that take D cells drain them far too quickly to get the benefit of the high capacity. IMO, D-cell lights don't serve much purpose anymore, since with LEDs you can get long run time with AA's. When I was a kid, all we ever had were D cell lights (or their 6-volt block equivalent), but of course they used incandescent bulbs.


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## xxo (Dec 21, 2017)

scout24 said:


> 9am today was 120 hours. Still comprable to a fresh E01, and still going strong.




Pretty impressive run time!

I have one of the Eveready 1D's and I like that it, unlike most of the 2 cell Eveready LEDs, is not direct drive and will run brightly on Eneloops in adapters or nearly depleted cells. I wanted to see if this light would run on C cells and I pulled a dead alkaline C cell from the recycle bin and dropped it in was surprised not only that it lit right up but was fairly bright on a "dead" alkaline C. The spring pressure is enough to hold C cells in place with no rattle. The ability to run on single near dead D or C cells (and even AA's with an adapter) might come in handy during an extended power outage.


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## flatline (Dec 24, 2017)

xxo said:


> I wanted to see if this light would run on C cells and I pulled a dead alkaline C cell from the recycle bin and dropped it in was surprised not only that it lit right up but was fairly bright on a "dead" alkaline C.



That is excellent news. I was hoping that these would do well with scavenged batteries.

Has anyone bothered to measure the current draw on these yet?

Edit: I found my multimeter and it looks like the Eveready 1D flashlight draws about 160mA from a fresh D cell. I only ran it for about 10 seconds before taking my reading. I don't really know what the best practice is.

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 24, 2017)

flatline said:


> That is excellent news. I was hoping that these would do well with scavenged batteries.
> 
> Has anyone bothered to measure the current draw on these yet?
> 
> ...


The best practice is what you did if you have a digital meter you may try the 10A scale using the shunt in the meter it will give you a higher reading usually if not out of range (too low for the setting). An interesting thing to do is to have 2 meters and a variable resistor and use the variable resistor to drop the voltage to your LED circuit and see how low of voltage and current drive and light output can get before it is no longer useful. This will help determine how far it can drain batteries in use before they are no longer useable. Some 1 cell boost circuits can supply workable light output down to close to half a volt (0.5v) input but in reality if you can get it to work down to 0.7v that will have the battery pretty much all used up beyond 95% totally depleted I'm guessing.


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 25, 2017)

Lynx_Arc said:


> The best practice is what you did if you have a digital meter you may try the 10A scale using the shunt in the meter it will give you a higher reading usually if not out of range (too low for the setting). An interesting thing to do is to have 2 meters and a variable resistor and use the variable resistor to drop the voltage to your LED circuit and see how low of voltage and current drive and light output can get before it is no longer useful. This will help determine how far it can drain batteries in use before they are no longer useable. Some 1 cell boost circuits can supply workable light output down to close to half a volt (0.5v) input but in reality if you can get it to work down to 0.7v that will have the battery pretty much all used up beyond 95% totally depleted I'm guessing.



That's interesting stuff, Lynx Arc, and it tells me that you know more about electronics than I do. (I don't know much).

Suppose I get one of these low-price Eveready 1D set-ups. If I drop a relatively fresh cell in there, it will put out about 9 lumens at the start (or as Scout says, about an E01 output), do that for 120+ hours. Then at some point it will start dropping to lower outputs.

Here's a question for you: if I put a resistor in between the cell and the circuit, could I get it to produce lower output from the start, and last longer?

For my purposes, I would rather have 1-lumen output for 900 hours than 9 lumens for 100 hours.

The things I don't know are:
1) will the circuit still work with a resistor between it and the cell? (But your post makes me think, "yes! it will!" at least for some ohm-values.)
2) will this use up the battery more slowly, or just waste power in the resistor?
3) what sort of ohm-ranges should I be playing with?

Like I said, I don't know much about electronics, but Radio Shack did not make you pass a test before selling you goods, so I have a bag of all kinds of resistors at home. I was thinking of buying one of these lights and just doing some trial-and-error with different ohm-values.

I will still do that, but if you know of calculations that would put me in the right ball-park, that could save me some time. Also, if power-wastage through the resistor is an issue, then maybe it's not worth it--I don't want to trade 100 hours of 9 lumens for 100 hours of 1 lumen, i.e. reduce the output and not get any longer runtime.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 25, 2017)

Below is a link to an Energizer alkaline d cell, It give you capacity at various loads.

http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E95.pdf

John.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 25, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> That's interesting stuff, Lynx Arc, and it tells me that you know more about electronics than I do. (I don't know much).
> 
> Suppose I get one of these low-price Eveready 1D set-ups. If I drop a relatively fresh cell in there, it will put out about 9 lumens at the start (or as Scout says, about an E01 output), do that for 120+ hours. Then at some point it will start dropping to lower outputs.
> 
> ...


Depending on the circuit most likely it would drop the output and lower the current used depending on the resistor used. If your measure of 160ma at 1.5vdc is about 9 lumens then about 20ma or so should give you in the 1-2 lumen range I'm guessing. I can only guess than about 1v into the circuit would give you a start that means about 0.5vdc voltage drop at 20ma R=E/I so 0.5v/0.020A = 25 ohms. This would be a start put the resistor inline and measure the current and eyeball the resulting output and adjust the resistor higher for lower output etc. Assuming this value is correct the power "wasted" would be about 10mw vs 240mw used at the 9 lumen output and the resulting power usage would be 30mw total so you wast about 1/24th of the power at the normal output to drop the total usage to 1/8 the power used making for 23/24ths power "not wasted" at the lower output. I think I got this math right?


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 26, 2017)

That's a huge help, Lynx Arc! Thanks so much for writing it out.

I did not understand all of the details, but I think I understood this much as answers to my questions:
1) I should be able to run the circuit with a resistor between the cell and the circuit.
2) It will reduce the light-output, and it will extend the run-time, and it will waste some power. But the waste is probably not a huge waste.
3) I should play around, but 25 ohms is a plausible value to start with, and then I can go up and down from there and see what I like.

Here's how I understand the power-wastage issue. I'm going to talk this through like I'm stupid, because I'm ignorant, and you can correct me where I'm wrong.

If the resistor did not waste any power, then it would increase run-time by the same factor that it decreased output. As a result, the product of (output x runtime) would remain constant. If it gave me 24 hours of 10-lumen light without the resistor, then it would give me 240 hours of 1-lumen light with the resistor (all numbers just for example).

Because there is power-wastage, the integral or product will not be constant. Instead of 240 hours, I might get 230 hours of 1-lumen light.

If that is right, then it is a trade that I am willing to make. I would rather get the longer runtime. In addition, I suppose that at some point in the cell's life, I can take the resistor out of the circuit and use up the remaining portion of the cell without that wastage from the resistor.

Okay, I will definitely try this out and play with it, now that I know roughly what results I am likely to see.


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## flashy bazook (Dec 26, 2017)

flatline said:


> The appeal is that I have a stash of partially used C and D cells that I can only use in a single cell flashlight since I have no way of reliably matching them in pairs or triplets. If I had a 1D light that I liked using, I could burn through all those cells with that light.
> 
> --flatline



You could use 1xD in a 2xD flashlight (or 3xD...) by using a dummy D-cell.

So you can have the possibility of using the more powerful 2xD, 3xD, etc. flashlights when you can match the batteries, or use them as 1xD if you cannot.

Of course this assumes the flashlight has the voltage range, plus you don't mind carrying around a bigger/heavier flashlight.


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 26, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> That's a huge help, Lynx Arc! Thanks so much for writing it out.
> 
> I did not understand all of the details, but I think I understood this much as answers to my questions:
> 1) I should be able to run the circuit with a resistor between the cell and the circuit.
> ...


Pretty much the case as a resistor always uses some power but by dropping the overall power used you get longer useful runtime instead of being brighter than you need for 24 hours you get just the right brightness for the 230 hours. Now in use the numbers I gave will probably not turn out the same as LEDs often get more efficient at lower current driven levels but on the flip side circuitry can be designed such that they are or aren't more efficient at lower current levels some circuitry has regulation of sorts that as voltage declines the current is increased to try and keep power levels the same. I seriously doubt such a cheap light would have but a simple boost circuit in it that should operate as expected. The only thing that does concern me since I don't have the light to test things is the circuit could be designed such that it doesn't operate well as the voltage from the battery (source) drops below 1.1v or so. I've seen several boost design circuits that just won't drain that final ~10% (or less) of the power from depleted alkalines etc that under a load when they reach the last of the power they have left cave in voltage too low to power up a circuit that demands too high of a current and you get either blinking or a light that runs for a very short while and shuts off and waiting for awhile and turning it back on again yields the same very short burst of light then.. nothing. 
One thing I've done in the past to eek out that last little bit of power from alkalines is when a single battery won't power the LED get two of these batteries that don't have enough power and wire them in series and connect them and then you have enough power. Usually such batteries cave under a load such that even what you would consider double the voltage doesn't bring you back to even the original output of the light as 2 batteries that measure 1.1v not under a load and 2.2v combined not under a load when hooked to the circuit drop to 1.2v (or less) under the load.
Another thing also is if you checked out the Energizer D cell data link posted by another here you will realize that as the current load on the battery drops you get MORE power out of the battery (in total) so dropping from 9 lumens to 1 lumen the slight loss in power due to the resistor may actually be made up by increased capacity of the battery at the lower power draw level.


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## flatline (Dec 26, 2017)

reppans said:


> Burn em up as lanterns using AAA and AA lights... your Quark can do it (any battery chem/size).



I've been giving this some consideration. I could rig up something with PVC and a night light topper. My Quark AA is already doing night light duty when the power goes out (moonlight mode should be able to get multiple months of continuous runtime out of some ER14505 cells that someone was going to throw away at work).

Quite frankly, I had forgotten that I could remove the Quark head from the body...

--flatline


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## xxo (Dec 27, 2017)

lampeDépêche said:


> That's interesting stuff, Lynx Arc, and it tells me that you know more about electronics than I do. (I don't know much).
> 
> Suppose I get one of these low-price Eveready 1D set-ups. If I drop a relatively fresh cell in there, it will put out about 9 lumens at the start (or as Scout says, about an E01 output), do that for 120+ hours. Then at some point it will start dropping to lower outputs.




I think the current Eveready 1D version is listed as 25 lumens, which seems about right but the tint on mine sucks, very blueberry colored. I guess you get what you pay for on this one in build quality, output and tint.....after all it's a $3 plastic flashlight! The ability to vampire single D and C alkaline cells and run on AA eneloops in adapters is what makes it interesting to me.


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## eh4 (Dec 27, 2017)

Any single AA or AAA light that has a head which unscrews from the battery tube should be very easy to adapt to a D cell. 
L3 Illumination L10, L11, or L8 would make nice D cell lights with their 3 or 4 (+firefly) modes... 

With 2+ decades of old single cell twisties out there, 
there's lots and lots and lots of options.

Also the Nite Ize 2-6 cell PR flange led conversion bulb runs a lot dimmer and longer on a single cell than on the 2-6 cells (3-9v) that it's marketer for, they're a bit pricy for how far the tech has come, but only weighing a few grams each, if you had two of them you could always wire up light no matter what battery was available from .9v to 18v....


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## flatline (Dec 29, 2017)

I took an AA with .98v open circuit voltage and was able to get useable steady output from the latest generation Eveready 1D flashlight. The current draw after 10 seconds of operation was about 21mA.

For comparison, the same battery would cause the LED from the first generation 1D flashlight (PR bulb with slider switch) to flicker, but not produce useful light.

How far down does a flashlight need to be able to pull a battery to be considered a battery vampire?

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 29, 2017)

flatline said:


> I took an AA with .98v open circuit voltage and was able to get useable steady output from the latest generation Eveready 1D flashlight. The current draw after 10 seconds of operation was about 21mA.
> 
> For comparison, the same battery would cause the LED from the first generation 1D flashlight (PR bulb with slider switch) to flicker, but not produce useful light.
> 
> ...


There is no set amount of low voltage operation to consider a light to be a battery vampire but typically if a light will operate to less than 0.9v on a 1.5v battery it has pretty much sucked perhaps 98% (or more) of the useful battery power out of the cell. If the light is bright enough at ~1v then it probably will drain it down to 0.8v or lower before the output isn't much useful.


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## flatline (Dec 29, 2017)

Lynx_Arc said:


> There is no set amount of low voltage operation to consider a light to be a battery vampire but typically if a light will operate to less than 0.9v on a 1.5v battery it has pretty much sucked perhaps 98% (or more) of the useful battery power out of the cell. If the light is bright enough at ~1v then it probably will drain it down to 0.8v or lower before the output isn't much useful.



In that case, these lights do a pretty good job getting every last bit of juice out of the battery.

I just finished a walk outside with the kids. At the end of the walk, the spill was still bright enough that I could use it to avoid tripping on sticks. Open circuit voltage of the cell just measured 0.92v. The LED is dim, but still bright enough to be uncomfortable to look at directly. I expect it to die shortly.

All in all, for $3, I'm pretty impressed. Decent beam, excellent run time, sufficient light for most purposes, and to top it off, I just got 2 hours of walk out of a battery that I pulled out of a Wii Remote that wouldn't even power up enough to complain about having dead batteries.

Edit: I just compared to my Quark's moonlight mode (0.2L) and the 1D is still well above that. Even though the battery is now below 0.9v.

--flatline


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## lampeDépêche (Dec 29, 2017)

I got my Eveready 1-D lights yesterday in the mail. So far, I think they are a great bargain. I paid $4.50 for a pair of lights with batteries, delivered. That's hardly more than you would pay for the two D-cells themselves at a gas-station mini-mart.

The lights? Yeah, they are cheap in all senses. Not robust, not waterproof, not going to stand up to abuse. Just a thin plastic shell with a spring mounted half-way up in order to take up the space normally occupied by a second cell.

But for my purposes, they look pretty great. Following advice from Lynx Arc above (and thanks again!), I have put a 39-ohm resistor on the positive terminal of the cell (a crude job using electrical tape, nothing fancy like soldering them), and now they are acting as constant-on night-lights in the kitchen and dining-room. Why 39 ohm? Total trial and error, plus impatience with looking at resistor bands and trying to decode the colors. It throttled the output down to something like a Pak-lite on low, so about 1 lumen. We'll see how long they last: I am hoping for a month or more. And if the cell bursts from low voltage, then it will leak down into the bottom of the plastic shell and not do any damage. Ideal for vampiring--you certainly don't want cells to leak into your good lights.

Other uses? The light without added resistor is a perfectly decent light, about 15 lumens or so (noticeably brighter than the E01), with decent spot and spill. Color not great, but mine are not as blue as the E01 is. 

I can easily see keeping these on hand as "the light you lend out"--nobody wants to lend their Malkoff or McGizmo to a stranger (and some of you wouldn't lend them even to a family-member!) but I would have no hesitation lending these to someone who needed a decent light and might not be able to return it. (Years ago we had a bunch of kids over for Halloween and I gave each kid their own light. That's how I lost my Arc LS, alas.)

So anyhow--this is not the 1-D light for all purposes. I would still love to have a real cockroach model that took a 1-D cell, and this ain't it. But it is good for lots of other things, and you cannot beat the price.


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## flatline (Dec 29, 2017)

I agree. I was never really pleased with the 1st generation (pr-style bulb that was easily damaged by the battery rattling against it) or the 2nd generation (ugly beam created by an optic), but this latest generation of Eveready 1D flashlight really seems pretty nice. I like the beam profile, the tint is acceptable, the switch doesn't cause things to flicker like the old slider did, and it seems to make dim but useful light out of nearly spent cells for a long time. I really like the emphasis on runtime rather than output.

I think this light is perfect as a "disposable" flashlight to be loaned, given away in times of need, or stashed away in preperation for power outages. Or, most likely in my case, used as a night light for one of the kids.

I will definitely pick up some more to replace the 1st and 2nd generation 1D lights I have stashed around the house and garage. They're total garbage in comparison.

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 30, 2017)

Energizer does make 1AAA and/or 1AA LED lights using the same type of circuit I believe but not sure the drive current/output is identical.


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## scout24 (Dec 30, 2017)

Well, 14 days, 336 hours. The Energizer 1D is still going, but is down to HDS level 5 or 6 output. More than enough to get around the house in the dark or tailstand as a night light, but I think on it's way out. I'll keep checking on it, when it's down to HDS level 1, I'm going to call it... Still not bad for 3 bucks! More runtime would be nice, but I'll take it.


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## flatline (Dec 30, 2017)

If you want to trade output for runtime, cut a cardboard disk the same diameter as a D-cell, cut small disks from an aluminum can (or similar) and use double sided tape to attach them to either side of the cardboard disk. Then connect the metal disks with the resistor of your choice by folding the resistor lead around the edge of the cardboard (if you want to solder it, then do it before attaching the metal to the cardboard). Then just drop the disk in the flashlight before you put the battery in.

I used to have a handful of these that I had made with 5ohm resisters so that I could incrementally stack them in a flashlight, but I have no idea what happened to them. Can't find them anywhere. A while ago I saw something similar for sale except they were plastic or nylon disks.

--flatline


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## bykfixer (Dec 30, 2017)

scout24 said:


> Well, 14 days, 336 hours. The Energizer 1D is still going. Still not bad for 3 bucks! More runtime would be nice, but I'll take it.


LOL. 

I've been able to ride past my local Home Depot without turning in, but you're making it tougher and tougher...

Enabler!!!


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## flatline (Dec 30, 2017)

bykfixer said:


> LOL.
> 
> I've been able to ride past my local Home Depot without turning in, but you're making it tougher and tougher...
> 
> Enabler!!!



That's what this forum is all about...

The most reliable place to find these lights in the Memphis area is Target. It's hit or miss at Home Depot. YMMV.

At Target, there's a pack for $9.99 that has 2 1D and 2 2AA lights (and batteries) in it. Has anyone looked at the 2AA lights yet? The packaging says they have the same output as the 1D even though they have twice the voltage. It would be interesting if they still light up on 1.5v.

--flatline


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## xxo (Dec 30, 2017)

I did some testing with my 1D Eveready and got the following with “dead” alkaline C cells:

0.48V would not light up.

0.75-0.79V lit up at about 1 lumen, maybe less.

0.95-1.10V roughly 2 lumens.

1.19V approx. 5 lumens.

All Voltages are open circuit (not under load). Lumens are my guesstimates.

For comparison, an AA Eneloop at 1.32V in a AA to D adapter seems to light up at the full 25 lumens or thereabouts.





flatline said:


> That's what this forum is all about...
> 
> The most reliable place to find these lights in the Memphis area is Target. It's hit or miss at Home Depot. YMMV.
> 
> ...





I have a one of their 2AA's (came in a pack with a similar 2D) from home depot.......if this is the same one, it is direct drive and won't run bright with cells below about 1.4 V each, but will probably run for a really long time at a few lumens.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 30, 2017)

scout24 said:


> Well, 14 days, 336 hours. The Energizer 1D is still going, but is down to HDS level 5 or 6 output. More than enough to get around the house in the dark or tailstand as a night light, but I think on it's way out. I'll keep checking on it, when it's down to HDS level 1, I'm going to call it... Still not bad for 3 bucks! More runtime would be nice, but I'll take it.



That runtime is why i recommend the 1D as an flashlight to be given in emergency packs, with an AA to D adapter.

john.


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## flatline (Dec 30, 2017)

xxo said:


> I have a one of their 2AA's (came in a pack with a similar 2D) from home depot.......if this is the same one, it is direct drive and won't run bright with cells below about 1.4 V each, but will probably run for a really long time at a few lumens.



Hmm...direct drive is less interesting to me, but the 2AA form factor is nice for the kids. Perhaps I'll pick up a set.

--flatline


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## xxo (Dec 30, 2017)

flatline said:


> Hmm...direct drive is less interesting to me, but the 2AA form factor is nice for the kids. Perhaps I'll pick up a set.
> 
> --flatline




Most 2 cell eveready LEDs seem to be direct drive - including the 2 or 4D Readyflex lantern and 2 or 4 AA flashlight (about the same size as the 1D). I personally don't like it because they go dim with about 75% of the alkaline batteries power remaining and they won't run bright on NiMh's/eneloops at all unless maybe they are hot off of the charger.


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## eh4 (Dec 31, 2017)

"There's no specific definition of a battery vampire light...." 
A light that lights up when most won't on a given "dead battery", and that reliably, or frequently Pops the battery as it over discharges, and keeps providing light. 
The ultimate battery vampire would have a corrosion proofed interior, thick gold plating, plastic battery tube, etc.


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## archimedes (Dec 31, 2017)

eh4 said:


> ....
> The ultimate battery vampire would have a corrosion proofed interior, thick gold plating, plastic battery tube, etc.



Sadly, all of the photos are now gone, but this was as close as I've yet seen here ...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?382066-The-A-AA-an-alkaline-AA-battery-vampire

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-version-of-the-battery-vampire-picture-heavy


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## Lynx_Arc (Dec 31, 2017)

xxo said:


> I did some testing with my 1D Eveready and got the following with “dead” alkaline C cells:
> 
> 0.48V would not light up.
> 
> ...



This is about as good as it gets as there really isn't much left in an alkaline battery below 0.7v to power a boost circuit. Back when the Dorcy 1AAA came out with an integrated boost circuit it pretty much mirrored the same voltages/output but had a less efficient LED.


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## flatline (Dec 31, 2017)

Lynx_Arc said:


> This is about as good as it gets as there really isn't much left in an alkaline battery below 0.7v to power a boost circuit. Back when the Dorcy 1AAA came out with an integrated boost circuit it pretty much mirrored the same voltages/output but had a less efficient LED.



I'm old enough to remember when a fresh battery in the Maglite Solitaire only gave about 3 lumens and a 2D industrial flashlight gave 5 - 10 ugly orange lumens.

Now we can get 1-2 lumens out of a "dead" battery.

We've come a long way.

--flatline


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## eh4 (Dec 31, 2017)

Great link archimedes, even without the pics. 
Thanks.


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## archimedes (Dec 31, 2017)

eh4 said:


> Great link archimedes, even without the pics.
> Thanks.



Just wish important threads like those weren't broken ... :candle:


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## TinderBox (UK) (Dec 31, 2017)

archimedes said:


> Just wish important threads like those weren't broken ... :candle:



If you use Firefox you can use this plugin below to see the broken photobucket pictures, Chrome has a plugin as well supposedly.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fix/?src=api

John.


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## flatline (Dec 31, 2017)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> If you use Firefox you can use this plugin below to see the broken photobucket pictures, Chrome has a plugin as well supposedly.
> 
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/photobucket-fix/?src=api
> 
> John.



Works great! Thanks for the link!

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 1, 2018)

flatline said:


> I'm old enough to remember when a fresh battery in the Maglite Solitaire only gave about 3 lumens and a 2D industrial flashlight gave 5 - 10 ugly orange lumens.
> 
> Now we can get 1-2 lumens out of a "dead" battery.
> 
> ...



Todays AA LED lights blow away decades ago 3D incans


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## TinderBox (UK) (Jan 1, 2018)

Any truth to incans penetrating fog/mist maybe smoke better than led, might be important for firefighter.

John


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## eh4 (Jan 1, 2018)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Any truth to incans penetrating fog/mist maybe smoke better than led, might be important for firefighter.
> 
> John



Longer wavelengths of light penetrate dust, particulate, fog, etc... (or maybe they wave and bend around them?)
Dust makes sunsets red by blocking more of the shorter wavelengths...
I've never had a really, really warm led light, I think 3,500 Kelvin is about the warmest led I have - other than an old red 5mm led and maybe an amber Photon I kicking around somewhere, but you can get modern high power led lights in the 2,500 Kelvin temp, as well as high powered Amber leds which have much better color rendering than red, but still have the peak of their light emission at 595nm, which is pretty long wavelength, close to red. 

These, and the very warm white 2500K leds should penetrate as well or better than any of the old incandescent lights, both due to their frequencies, and by being brighter as well.


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## xxo (Jan 2, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> This is about as good as it gets as there really isn't much left in an alkaline battery below 0.7v to power a boost circuit. Back when the Dorcy 1AAA came out with an integrated boost circuit it pretty much mirrored the same voltages/output but had a less efficient LED.




I thought it was pretty good considering that these were dead batteries fished out of a recycle bin and weren't even D cells, but C's (which happen to work in this light) - I'm sure the Voltage on these cells dropped like a stone as soon as they were under load. It might be nice to have couple of these around during an extended power outage to get some light out of D, C and AA (with adapter) cells that are too dead to run anything else.

Aside from this I can't say these Eveready 1D's are all that impressive. Let's face it they are cheap $3 lights and most of us probably already have something better on our key rings.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Jan 2, 2018)

I have an PR2 led bulb that will run from 1-6 cells, I wan to see long it will run on an single cell (how low the voltage will go), So i am looking for an hobby PR2 bulb holder, but all i can find is screw in type.

John.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 2, 2018)

xxo said:


> ...Aside from this I can't say these Eveready 1D's are all that impressive. Let's face it they are cheap $3 lights and most of us probably already have something better on our key rings.



Oh, totally agree. I would never EDC a light that was this crappy (even if the size was not an issue). But cheap has its uses, too, and it even has its charms.


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## flatline (Jan 2, 2018)

xxo said:


> Aside from this I can't say these Eveready 1D's are all that impressive. Let's face it they are cheap $3 lights and most of us probably already have something better on our key rings.



I can't speak for anybody else, but in my case, this light fills a gap in my collection. Specifically, I wanted a light that I can safely feed partially used D and C cells without worrying. That these lights turned out to be battery vampires with amazing run time is just icing on the cake.

Similarly, I can hand one of these lights to someone without having to explain the UI and at $3, I don't care if I don't get it back.

But I totally agree that these lights won't replace anything I EDC or even the beaters I keep in my vehicle or garage.

--flatline


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## eh4 (Jan 2, 2018)

Tinderbox, 
take a large paperclip and bend it into a "c" shape with one end additionally bent around the neck of the PR bulb. 
- that'll allow you to put the PR bulb through the small loop, and use the larger c curve to reach the negative end of the battery. -if you use a bit longer and better wire you can make it fancy with a larger ring bent at the neg end instead of a hook so it'll tail stand.


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## jabe1 (Jan 2, 2018)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I have an PR2 led bulb that will run from 1-6 cells, I wan to see long it will run on an single cell (how low the voltage will go), So i am looking for an hobby PR2 bulb holder, but all i can find is screw in type.
> 
> John.



just use a 2D light with a dummy cell


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## flatline (Jan 3, 2018)

jabe1 said:


> just use a 2D light with a dummy cell



Out of curiosity, what do most folks use as a dummy cell?

I see them online for $5 or $6, but I would expect most folks here who need one have some trick for making them rather than purchasing them online.

--flatline


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## scout24 (Jan 3, 2018)

Well, it's still making light but it's below "HDS level 1" light output. Sometime between yesterday morning and now. Call it 430+/- hours I guess. For the money, a winner. Next, I'm going for a thumb workout, I'm going to see if the switch will hold up. Looking for 500 cycles. I've unlocked a couple Novatacs, so this should not be too hard. If it holds up to 500 cycles, I'm going to go buy another one.


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## flatline (Jan 3, 2018)

scout24 said:


> Well, it's still making light but it's below "HDS level 1" light output. Sometime between yesterday morning and now. Call it 430+/- hours I guess. For the money, a winner. Next, I'm going for a thumb workout, I'm going to see if the switch will hold up. Looking for 500 cycles. I've unlocked a couple Novatacs, so this should not be too hard. If it holds up to 500 cycles, I'm going to go buy another one.



Have you seen any flickering at all? Or has the output been steady this whole time?

--flatline


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## xxo (Jan 3, 2018)

flatline said:


> I can't speak for anybody else, but in my case, this light fills a gap in my collection. Specifically, I wanted a light that I can safely feed partially used D and C cells without worrying. That these lights turned out to be battery vampires with amazing run time is just icing on the cake.
> 
> Similarly, I can hand one of these lights to someone without having to explain the UI and at $3, I don't care if I don't get it back.
> 
> ...




That's pretty much my view as well, I just didn't want to talk it up too much so that people here ran out and got one and were disappointed.......great for being cheap/easily replaceable and for vampiring single D and C cells though. If anyone here is looking for an impressive budget light, I would suggest, for example, the 300 lumen $10 Rayovac 2AA Indestructible (preferably running Eneloops) over this light.


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## flatline (Jan 3, 2018)

xxo said:


> That's pretty much my view as well, I just didn't want to talk it up too much so that people here ran out and got one and were disappointed.......great for being cheap/easily replaceable and for vampiring single D and C cells though. If anyone here is looking for an impressive budget light, I would suggest, for example, the 300 lumen $10 Rayovac 2AA Indestructible (preferably running Eneloops) over this light.




No argument here. This is a $3 light. It's a fantastic value for a $3 light, but it's still a $3 light.

BTW, I picked up a Rayovac 2AA Indestructible this xmas. Nice light for $10. It's actually the brightest light I currently own.

--flatline


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 3, 2018)

xxo said:


> ...the 300 lumen $10 Rayovac 2AA Indestructible (preferably running Eneloops) over this light.



300 lumens, runs on rechargeable AA's, costs $10. Amazing.

When I bought my first high-end flashlight, it was a 6P original back in 1990 or 1991.

About 100 lumens. Used up two expensive CR123s in a few hours. Cost me about $90. 

And I thought it was the most marvelous thing on earth. 

The world may be going to hell in twelve different ways, but lights are getting cheaper and brighter and more efficient.

It's something to celebrate.


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## scout24 (Jan 3, 2018)

flatline said:


> Have you seen any flickering at all? Or has the output been steady this whole time?
> 
> --flatline



Flatline- No flickering, rock steady. And, by the way, it passed my 500 click switch test with flying colors. (With a new cell, under power.) I'm going to pick up a two-pack next HD run...


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## eh4 (Jan 3, 2018)

flatline said:


> Out of curiosity, what do most folks use as a dummy cell?
> 
> I see them online for $5 or $6, but I would expect most folks here who need one have some trick for making them rather than purchasing them online.
> 
> --flatline



A rolled up cylinder of tinfoil?


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## flatline (Jan 3, 2018)

eh4 said:


> A rolled up cylinder of tinfoil?



That would work. In the past I've cut dowels to length and wrapped them in foil, but I was just curious if there were any better tricks.

--flatline


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## jabe1 (Jan 3, 2018)

flatline said:


> Out of curiosity, what do most folks use as a dummy cell?
> 
> I see them online for $5 or $6, but I would expect most folks here who need one have some trick for making them rather than purchasing them online.
> 
> --flatline



years ago I made one from a couple of pvc pipe caps and a brass nut and bolt cut to length.


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## flatline (Jan 4, 2018)

Well, I thought I was getting a Lumintop SD4A flashlight as a xmas present from my wife, but she opted to get me a practice longsword instead (not complaining!).

Oh well.

--flatline


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## eh4 (Jan 4, 2018)

jabe1 said:


> years ago I made one from a couple of pvc pipe caps and a brass nut and bolt cut to length.



A fancy, high amp dummy cell could be made as you did, but using thick copper wire, or maybe thin copper pipe.


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## xxo (Jan 5, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> 300 lumens, runs on rechargeable AA's, costs $10. Amazing.
> 
> When I bought my first high-end flashlight, it was a 6P original back in 1990 or 1991.
> 
> ...





I remember when the first Surefire CR123 lights came out: 60 or 65 lumens for about an hour on 2 CR123's and the only place to buy new cells was from a camera shop.


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## xxo (Jan 5, 2018)

scout24 said:


> Flatline- No flickering, rock steady. And, by the way, it passed my 500 click switch test with flying colors. (With a new cell, under power.) I'm going to pick up a two-pack next HD run...



The reverse clicky switch on these works a lot better than the old slide switches typical of cheap plastic D cell lights, I am glad to hear that it is holding up in your test!


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 5, 2018)

xxo said:


> The reverse clicky switch on these works a lot better than the old slide switches typical of cheap plastic D cell lights, I am glad to hear that it is holding up in your test!



I agree that slide switches in the old D cell lights were always a problem for me I always preferred clicky switches myself that is why I transplanted all the PR base bulbs from my 1D Energizer lights into hosts with clickies on them.


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## xxo (Jan 21, 2018)

* I did a run time test with the Eveready 1D running on a single AA Eneloop in a 1AA to D adapter, checking Voltages (open circuit) every hour or so starting at 5 hours and got the following results:*

 
*Start – 1.40V (charged about 1-2 weeks prior)*
*5 hrs – 1.22V*
*6 hrs - 1.21V*
*7 hrs - 1.20V*
*8 hrs - 1.17V*
*9 hrs - 1.13V (seems to have started to dim slightly after 9 hrs.)*
*10 hrs – 1.00V (10hrs down to roughly 9 lumens/30%)*
*10.5 hrs – 0.91V down to ~ 4 lumens. This is still a little above the ANSI 10% of 2.5 lumens, but since the Eneloop was already discharged lower than I like, I called the test at this point.*
 

*So it seems that Eneloops will run the Eveready 1D at or near full power for roughly 9 hours, down to around 1.13V, before starting to dim with about another 1.5 hrs before hitting 4 lumens and 0.91 Volts. In actual use I would have probably changed the battery at around 10 hrs.*


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## bykfixer (Jan 21, 2018)

9 hours on a AA? ⊙▁⊙ 
Madness I tell ya... madness. 
This things sounds like the electric version of a jar candle.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Jan 21, 2018)

So very ruffly Eneloop 2000mah /9hrs=222ma, say 250ma an D Alkaline is around 12-15.000mah at 250ma drain, So 12000/250=48 or approx 48hr`s

John.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 21, 2018)

I modified my Eveready 1-D lights by taping 39-ohm resistors to the top of the cell. I did that back on Dec. 29, i.e. 23 days ago.

They have been running steadily ever since then, 24 hours a day. (I have one in the kitchen and one in the dining room, pointing straight up at the ceiling to act as night-lights. They are concealed in vases so you don't see them during the day.)

Still putting out something like 1 lumen, about 550 hours later. About as bright as a Pak-lite on low.

Oh--one of the cells was a fresh cell that came with the lights. The other was an old Duracell that I scavenged from somewhere. My ZTS tester gave it about 60%.


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## chillinn (Jan 21, 2018)

flatline said:


> If you want to trade output for runtime, cut a cardboard disk the same diameter as a D-cell, cut small disks from an aluminum can (or similar) and use double sided tape to attach them to either side of the cardboard disk. Then connect the metal disks with the resistor of your choice by folding the resistor lead around the edge of the cardboard (if you want to solder it, then do it before attaching the metal to the cardboard). Then just drop the disk in the flashlight before you put the battery in.
> 
> I used to have a handful of these that I had made with 5ohm resisters so that I could incrementally stack them in a flashlight, but I have no idea what happened to them. Can't find them anywhere. A while ago I saw something similar for sale except they were plastic or nylon disks.
> 
> --flatline



Novel idea! Here I am frowning about my poor eyesight, my unsteady hands, and my inability to work on or solder anything smaller than a TRS connector. When I can think of how to phrase a subsequent post, I'll probably quote this in another thread, but the preview is, since finding a tailcap-smithy to create a custom one-off is difficult and probably expensive, I'd like to use this idea for incan E, to lower the output from 4.2V Li-ion brightness (too bright!) back to 3V CR123A brightness, but increase the 20min runtime I get from 16340. Thank you for the epiphany!

CPF, this thread is great, going into the bookmarks, love it for transcending its topic without going off-topic with great ideas and links to other great threads I never saw.


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## xxo (Jan 22, 2018)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> So very ruffly Eneloop 2000mah /9hrs=222ma, say 250ma an D Alkaline is around 12-15.000mah at 250ma drain, So 12000/250=48 or approx 48hr`s
> 
> John.




It's rated for 60 hrs of ANSI run time on the included Eveready Super Heavy duty/carbon zinc battery and I don't doubt it will do that (although I am not patient enough to prove it!). With the AA Eneloop it seems almost 90% of the runtime is at or close to full output; I don't think a carbon zinc cell would be able to keep up the same proportions over its 60 hour run time....I’m thinking it would have a much lower percentage at or near full power - in addition the Eneloop might even run at slightly higher output than a carbon zinc battery due to lower internal resistance, giving the Eneloop a comparative advantage in brightness at the expense of run time.


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## xxo (Jan 22, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> I modified my Eveready 1-D lights by taping 39-ohm resistors to the top of the cell. I did that back on Dec. 29, i.e. 23 days ago.
> 
> They have been running steadily ever since then, 24 hours a day. (I have one in the kitchen and one in the dining room, pointing straight up at the ceiling to act as night-lights. They are concealed in vases so you don't see them during the day.)
> 
> ...




How bright were they when you started?


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 22, 2018)

xxo said:


> How bright were they when you started?


By eyeball, about the same, i.e. about the same total output as a Pak-Lite on low. I'd say between 0.5 and 1.5 lumens?

So as far as my eyeball can tell, there has been no drop-off in output for 23 days. Which makes sense if they are drawing a very small current, from a cell that is very large by comparison. (E.g. if they are drawing 10ma out of a 18,000mah cell.) The D-cell's voltage is not going to drop by much, until we get to the very last few electrons in the bottom of the barrel when the internal resistance will become significant.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 22, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> By eyeball, about the same, i.e. about the same total output as a Pak-Lite on low. I'd say between 0.5 and 1.5 lumens?
> 
> So as far as my eyeball can tell, there has been no drop-off in output for 23 days. Which makes sense if they are drawing a very small current, from a cell that is very large by comparison. (E.g. if they are drawing 10ma out of a 18,000mah cell.) The D-cell's voltage is not going to drop by much, until we get to the very last few electrons in the bottom of the barrel when the internal resistance will become significant.


I've found an LED putting out 1 lumen or less takes very little current such that I have a 2AAA direct drive LED light that runs for almost 3 weeks till it gets too dim to be useful and the 2 nimh AAAs have less than 700mah of capacity so compared to a single D cell they have only a fraction of power and yet still can run several weeks I figure that D cell could run 6 weeks even till it is too dim.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 22, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> ... I figure that D cell could run 6 weeks even till it is too dim.



That would be sweet. 1000 hours from a single D-cell would be a nice round number. 

(I won't get that much from the scavenged one, but perhaps from the fresh one.)


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 27, 2018)

I just noticed that one of my two Eveready 1-D lights was noticeably dimmer than the other. (These are the two where I taped 39-ohm throttles onto the D-cells, and started them on constant-on on December 29, four weeks ago.)

So I thought I would check the batteries, maybe replace the scavenged one.

Strange thing: the scavenged one--an old Duracell that my ZTS said had 60% before I put it in--is still running strong. The ZTS now says it has about 10% (i.e. flashing red), but the voltage is 1.0, and the output is good.

The Eveready D-cell that came with the two lights, which I installed new: that is the one that is closer to dead. The light is much dimmer. The ZTS did not respond at all. And my voltmeter said it was putting out 0.6v.

Pretty good that these lights drain a cell down to 0.6v! 

Then, when I put it back into the light, it would not start up again. As often, it takes less voltage to keep a driver working then to start it working.

But I let the battery recover for about 15 minutes, until it read 0.7v, and then the light fired up again.

Pretty good that it can fire up on 0.7v!

The output of this dim one is roughly like the brightest L2 on my old ZL H52w, which is listed as 0.36 lumens. (Though there is wide variety in the actual output of those ZL low levels. Let's say: between 0.1 and 0.5? ). In any case, still very usable for night navigation with dark-adapted eyes.

The output of the brighter one, running the cell that reads 1.0v, is between 1-2 lumens. Not as bright as the 2.9 lumens listed for the L1 level on my ZL H52w. But slightly brighter than a Pak-lite on low.

So: interesting that a Duracell at 60% had more juice in it than a brand new Eveready. 

I doubt if I am going to get much more out of the Eveready reading 0.6v. But I got a usable month from it. And I am still getting more than a month from a Duracell that started at 60%.

Pretty good pair of devices for $5 (less actually, since that included the two new D-cells).

ETA: on second thought, though, the resistor throttle may not be working as well as I wanted. After all, Scout24 got almost 500 hours from a Duracell *without* the throttle, so with much higher output for a lot of the life of the cell. Whereas mine was throttled down to 1-2 lumens from the very start, and I am getting only 700 or so hours from the Eveready cell (maybe more from the Duracell? which started more depleted?).

Hmmm...there are too many variables to tell if I am comparing apples to apples. What I need to do is start with two fresh cells from the same package, run one with the resistor and one without, and see how the run-times compare.

Which is kind of ironic, given that the original point was to use up old D-cells I already have, not to go out and buy a pair of fresh ones.... But science demands it!


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 28, 2018)

You have to realize that heavy duty batteries have far less power in them (mah) than alkaline and I believe have higher internal resistance also so even a partially depleted alkaline battery can have more power in it than a brand new heavy duty battery.


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## lampeDépêche (Jan 28, 2018)

You are right! The Eveready is labeled "Super Heavy Duty Carbon Zinc". And the datasheet for it says that its capacity is 8000mah at 25ma drain. So that's 320 hours at 25ma; if I have the circuit throttled down to 10ma-15ma then that would predict the doubled run-time out to 700 hours.

And the Duracell is an alkaline, which will deliver 12,500mah at a drain of 250ma (says the datasheet), so quite a lot more at a drain of 10ma.

How did I not know that these cells were so different? Always more to learn.


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## xxo (Jan 28, 2018)

I would expect a alkaline D is likely to last about 3X longer than a carbon zinc battery....if this light is rated for 60 hrs of ANSI runtime (down to 10% of initial brightness), a new alkaline cell should last for about 180 hrs or so before it gets down to 2.5 lumens (10%), it will probably last much longer running below 2.5 lumens before it dies completely.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 29, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> You are right! The Eveready is labeled "Super Heavy Duty Carbon Zinc". And the datasheet for it says that its capacity is 8000mah at 25ma drain. So that's 320 hours at 25ma; if I have the circuit throttled down to 10ma-15ma then that would predict the doubled run-time out to 700 hours.
> 
> And the Duracell is an alkaline, which will deliver 12,500mah at a drain of 250ma (says the datasheet), so quite a lot more at a drain of 10ma.
> 
> How did I not know that these cells were so different? Always more to learn.


I have heard alkaline D cells getting 15000-18000mah at drains in the 10-25ma range so a 60% full Alkaline D could have more capacity than a brand new Heavy Duty D cell.


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## flatline (Feb 2, 2018)

We've found a good entry level 1D light that is easy to find, offers surprising value, and is certainly good enough t0 burn through the C and D cells I've accumulated...which was the whole point of this thread.

I'm still a little surprised that there is only one model of 4AA light that supports running on 1D with reduced output (Lumintop SD4A). The 4AA lights are already an attempt to sell to people who are unaware or unwilling to take the leap into 18650 type batteries and those same people are extremely likely to be comfortable with D cells, so it seems like this would be a no-brainer to me.

Of course, I've done no market research and have no actual insight into the industry. Lack of 1D support in 4AA lights must indicate that flashlight makers don't think that it will drive enough incremental sales to justify the expense.

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Feb 2, 2018)

flatline said:


> We've found a good entry level 1D light that is easy to find, offers surprising value, and is certainly good enough t0 burn through the C and D cells I've accumulated...which was the whole point of this thread.
> 
> I'm still a little surprised that there is only one model of 4AA light that supports running on 1D with reduced output (Lumintop SD4A). The 4AA lights are already an attempt to sell to people who are unaware or unwilling to take the leap into 18650 type batteries and those same people are extremely likely to be comfortable with D cells, so it seems like this would be a no-brainer to me.
> 
> ...


 Not really surprising.... Most people don't need a dim LED light that runs for hundreds of hours off a D cell they do fine with a brighter 1AA light that runs for a few days as on average few have power outages that run for more than a day or 2. I still have several D and C cells in my Energizer accent lanterns I got around 2005 that were used through a 4.5 day outage in the 2007 ice storm that blacked out half the state here. There hasn't been more than a few hours of outage combined over the last 10 years so having an expensive 1D dim LED light would be a waste of money for me. I could have done with 4AAs and a dim 1AA light propped up to tail stand or an 18650 with a low mode something that I would use for more than extended power outages.


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## flatline (Feb 2, 2018)

Ironically, after having purchased several of these 1D lights, I actually have more D cells lying around than I had before.

Two steps forward, one step back...

--flatline


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## martinaee (Feb 2, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Not really surprising.... Most people don't need a dim LED light that runs for hundreds of hours off a D cell they do fine with a brighter 1AA light that runs for a few days as on average few have power outages that run for more than a day or 2. I still have several D and C cells in my Energizer accent lanterns I got around 2005 that were used through a 4.5 day outage in the 2007 ice storm that blacked out half the state here. There hasn't been more than a few hours of outage combined over the last 10 years so having an expensive 1D dim LED light would be a waste of money for me. I could have done with 4AAs and a dim 1AA light propped up to tail stand or an 18650 with a low mode something that I would use for more than extended power outages.



Yeah, I have one big Husky 3 D cell light that has 3 xp-l emitters, but I wouldn't have it if I didn't have D cells for my Streamlight Seige lantern. I think D cells can still make sense for some of the good LED lanterns, but not as much for modern LED flashlights. Even then I think 18650's are becoming much more mainstream for consumers so I don't know how many more D cell lights/lanterns we'll see in the future. I don't know though. NiMh D cells are amazing with high capacity and great safety if you are willing to pay for them and the charger. I guess some of the multi-chargers can charge those too though these days. My XTAR 4 bay charger seems to be killing my cells though--- that's for a different thread.


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## xxo (Feb 3, 2018)

I think D cells still have a place particularly for people who don't want to have to deal will the all the safety issues that go along with Li-Ions. D's are great for lanterns for power outages and camping trips and I still like the D cell Mags (particularly the new 3rd Gen variety).


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## Lynx_Arc (Feb 4, 2018)

martinaee said:


> Yeah, I have one big Husky 3 D cell light that has 3 xp-l emitters, but I wouldn't have it if I didn't have D cells for my Streamlight Seige lantern. I think D cells can still make sense for some of the good LED lanterns, but not as much for modern LED flashlights. Even then I think 18650's are becoming much more mainstream for consumers so I don't know how many more D cell lights/lanterns we'll see in the future. I don't know though. NiMh D cells are amazing with high capacity and great safety if you are willing to pay for them and the charger. I guess some of the multi-chargers can charge those too though these days. My XTAR 4 bay charger seems to be killing my cells though--- that's for a different thread.


 D cells for the most part is almost an exotic chemistry when it comes to rechargeables as it requires considerable research and cost to get batteries and chargers that very few people will go through to get the cost per cycle down plus Nimh D cells are considerably heavier than alkalines and lithium cells of the same size the main advantage of alkaline D cells is their incredible capacity at low drain levels. IMO the 1D LED light is a perfect use of D cells, and in low output D cell lanterns aren't bad for occasional use but for us heavy user flashaholics D cells are a constant drain on the budget and the NIMH D cell solutions aren't attractive vs lithium ion solutions. The main issue with lithium ion is limited choices in local stores mostly with integrated cells and chargers that when they fail over time render the device useless unless repaired plus downtime waiting for a recharge cycle to complete.


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## Lynx_Arc (Feb 4, 2018)

xxo said:


> I think D cells still have a place particularly for people who don't want to have to deal will the all the safety issues that go along with Li-Ions. D's are great for lanterns for power outages and camping trips and I still like the D cell Mags (particularly the new 3rd Gen variety).


I don't buy that in that there are dozens of tool manufacturers these days using 18650s in packs with no problems if you go to a home improvement or tool store you will see 20v 5 or 10 cell battery packs everywhere and they even have 40v and 60v and up packs of lithium cells for use outdoors even on weedeaters and saws and mowers etc. It is when the cells are bare that they can be unsafe to an uneducated user. The main reason Ds are still attractive is the startup cost. You probably can get 2-3 alkaline Ds for $2 in quantity for lights vs about $12 or so for a 2x18650 solution which most likey would be integrated charging for safety concerns which render the light out of service to recharge when depleted. Let's face it stores don't really profit a lot off selling 1.5v rechargeable technology they do make a fortune off selling overpriced lithium chargers for devices with built in chargers though.


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## bykfixer (Feb 4, 2018)

scout24 said:


> Flatline- No flickering, rock steady. And, by the way, it passed my 500 click switch test with flying colors. (With a new cell, under power.) I'm going to pick up a two-pack next HD run...



Still resisting this one, but dawg-gonnit you aint making it easy. 
Enabler...lovecpf


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## xxo (Feb 4, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I don't buy that in that there are dozens of tool manufacturers these days using 18650s in packs with no problems if you go to a home improvement or tool store you will see 20v 5 or 10 cell battery packs everywhere and they even have 40v and 60v and up packs of lithium cells for use outdoors even on weedeaters and saws and mowers etc. It is when the cells are bare that they can be unsafe to an uneducated user. The main reason Ds are still attractive is the startup cost. You probably can get 2-3 alkaline Ds for $2 in quantity for lights vs about $12 or so for a 2x18650 solution which most likey would be integrated charging for safety concerns which render the light out of service to recharge when depleted. Let's face it stores don't really profit a lot off selling 1.5v rechargeable technology they do make a fortune off selling overpriced lithium chargers for devices with built in chargers though.



Battery packs are safe in devices they are intended for if properly designed and manufactured, but a good battery pack/charger usually adds $50-100 to the price of a power tool.....I have had a bunch of professional quality power tools that were put out of service because of dead battery packs that cost more than buying a new tool to replace a couple of the batteries. Contractors have to deal with this, but most of the general public does not want to deal with the cost and hassle for a simple flashlight that might get used for a few hours during infrequent power outages and such......much easier to buy a new set of alkaline D's when a storm is coming. And a $12 2x18650 solution is not safe for the vast majority of the general public as it stands now.


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## xxo (Feb 4, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Still resisting this one, but dawg-gonnit you aint making it easy.
> Enabler...lovecpf



Resistance is futile.


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## bykfixer (Feb 4, 2018)

xxo said:


> Resistance is futile.



:devil: enabler :help:


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## Lynx_Arc (Feb 4, 2018)

xxo said:


> Battery packs are safe in devices they are intended for if properly designed and manufactured, but a good battery pack/charger usually adds $50-100 to the price of a power tool.....I have had a bunch of professional quality power tools that were put out of service because of dead battery packs that cost more than buying a new tool to replace a couple of the batteries. Contractors have to deal with this, but most of the general public does not want to deal with the cost and hassle for a simple flashlight that might get used for a few hours during infrequent power outages and such......much easier to buy a new set of alkaline D's when a storm is coming. And a $12 2x18650 solution is not safe for the vast majority of the general public as it stands now.


My point is lithium ion can be made safe enough for general usage in that it is in power tool, and even most cell phones also use the batteries such that safety is less of an excuse but I agree the cost vs alkaline D cells discourage such use but compare the cost of D cell nimh batteries and a charger to 18650 lithium ion batteries and a charger and you get about the same price or even cheaper. You can also get lithium ion lights with charger and battery built in for a decent price. It is when you go bargain basement like the 1D energizer plastic light that lithium cannot compete at all. As long as you don't spend a fortune on D cells over time it can be a savings for sure.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Feb 4, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Still resisting this one, but dawg-gonnit you aint making it easy.
> Enabler...lovecpf



If I didn't already have several of the first generation 1D Energizer lights I would get one to use the circuit in it to create another 1D area light.


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## lumen aeternum (Feb 5, 2018)

TL & old DR
are there any such lights in 2018?


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## flatline (Feb 5, 2018)

lumen aeternum said:


> TL & old DR
> are there any such lights in 2018?



Well, to sum up:

The current generation of Eveready 1D flashlights (about $3 each at a hardware store or $6 for a pair at Target, identified by having a clicky switch and a real reflector instead of an optic) are surprisingly good for the price. They have a good beam, non-objectionable tint, robust switch, and can run a really long time (a runtime test earlier in the thread got 100's of hours of dim but usable light out of the provided heavy duty battery...implying that an alkaline might approach 1000 hours based on relative capacities). The circuit is a real battery vampire and some of us have reported getting many hours of usable light out of batteries that were too dead for other electronics to fire up on.

As a $3 light, it's probably not something you'd carry, but it seems like a great light to stash in the house as a loaner/give-away light for emergencies or as a night light for power outages. The price makes it appealing for a project light (use the circuit to make a lantern, for example). I've been sticking "dead" batteries in mine and using them to navigate the house at night. I'm currently on 1 month of use from a "dead" AA battery that I pulled out of a game controller.

The only higher quality light that I'm aware of is the Lumintop SD4A which is a 4AA light that will happily run at reduced output on 1D. The reviews I've found have all been positive, but only one actually gave any information about how the light behaves on 1D. Reported output on 1D: 1/38/111/166/208. Review: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?440874-Lumintop-SD4A-XM-L2-4AA-Review

So, not many options, but at least the cheap option seems like an excellent value. The more expensive option gets good reviews but nobody in this thread has experienced it firsthand.

--flatline


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## lampeDépêche (Feb 5, 2018)

So I turned on my two Eveready 1-D lights 37 days ago. One of them with a fresh Eveready zinc-carbon D-cell. The other with a Duracell alkaline, rated at 60% by my ZTS meter.

Tonight I noticed that the one running the Eveready was no longer a useful area-light in the kitchen. Too dim for the ceiling-bounce to make the area navigable. So I decided to replace the battery.

It was still putting out some light. About the same brightness as the lowest level of light on my Photon Freedom white light running a single 2032 cell. Or the middle L2 on my H52w, which is rated at 0.06 lumens. I could read a book with it held 15cms/6" away. So some useful light. But not enough to act as a general night-light for night excursions to the kitchen. 

37 days = 888 hours. From a zinc-carbon cell rated at 8000mah. So it's drawing about 9ma. And when I took the battery out, the voltage was at 0.39v. That was too low for it to restart it, of course, but it was still running on it.

The other light, with the used Duracell, is till chugging along with a decent useful output.

If it's drawing an average of 9ma from a 1.5v cell, then I assume it is delivering well less than half that current to the LED. Cut it in half to boost it to 3v, then trim off some more for losses to the boost circuit, and maybe it was feeding 3ma to the emitter? 

Anyhow--it's a vampire alright. Down to 0.39v and still putting out minimal but usable light. I don't know how far down it would have dropped the voltage to before going out altogether.


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## flatline (Feb 5, 2018)

That's an amazing result.

The open circuit voltage of the "dead" AA that I've been using is still above 0.8v and the output is still greater than 1L, but it only runs about 20 minutes each night and then rests all day. I'll replace the cell before too much longer simply because I don't want it to leak in my adapter.

Leaking cells are the bane of the battery vampire. And wall clocks.

--flatline


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## dgbrookman (Feb 5, 2018)

Just to verify, is this the one? 

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Eveready-Economy-LED-Flashlight/50033830?

Gotta check these things before laying down the princely sum of $2.47.  Seriously, thanks for the pointer and discussion. I can see lots of uses for a long-lasting, modest output light like this.


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## flatline (Feb 5, 2018)

dgbrookman said:


> Just to verify, is this the one?
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Eveready-Economy-LED-Flashlight/50033830?
> 
> Gotta check these things before laying down the princely sum of $2.47.  Seriously, thanks for the pointer and discussion. I can see lots of uses for a long-lasting, modest output light like this.



The packaging on mine advertised 25 lumens and 60 hours runtime, so that looks like the same thing. I'd be more confident if we could see that it had a reflector in it rather than an optic. The previous generation with the optic was pretty terrible and I'd hate for you to get one of those by mistake.

--flatline


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## lampeDépêche (Feb 6, 2018)

dgbrookman said:


> ...I can see lots of uses for a long-lasting, modest output light like this.



Just to be clear, I am running these with a 39-ohm resistor in-line between the cell and the circuit. (Nothing fancy, just taped to the top of the cell with some electrical tape for insulation). That is why I got 800+ hours from it--without the throttle, I would have gotten more like the manufacturer's 60 hours.


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## lampeDépêche (Feb 6, 2018)

dgbrookman said:


> Just to verify, is this the one?
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Eveready-Economy-LED-Flashlight/50033830?
> 
> Gotta check these things before laying down the princely sum of $2.47.



That looks plausible, and I'm even more confident of the two-fer package advertised below it:

http://https://www.walmart.com/ip/Eveready-LED-Economy-Flashlight/38752870

C'mon, big spender--roll double or nothing!


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## flatline (Feb 6, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> That looks plausible, and I'm even more confident of the two-fer package advertised below it:
> 
> http://https://www.walmart.com/ip/Eveready-LED-Economy-Flashlight/38752870
> 
> C'mon, big spender--roll double or nothing!



Yes, that one looks exactly like the package I bought at Target.

--flatline


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## xxo (Feb 6, 2018)

dgbrookman said:


> Just to verify, is this the one?
> 
> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Eveready-Economy-LED-Flashlight/50033830?
> 
> Gotta check these things before laying down the princely sum of $2.47.  Seriously, thanks for the pointer and discussion. I can see lots of uses for a long-lasting, modest output light like this.




The Photo looks like the right one (25 lumens/60 hr. run), but the description says 125 hrs (probably an old spec for a lower lumen version). 

They sell these things all over including Home Depot and even some grocery stores. I noticed my local Walmart was recently closing these out for $2 (along with Mag Solitaire LEDs for $7).


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## dgbrookman (Feb 7, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> Just to be clear, I am running these with a 39-ohm resistor in-line between the cell and the circuit. (Nothing fancy, just taped to the top of the cell with some electrical tape for insulation). That is why I got 800+ hours from it--without the throttle, I would have gotten more like the manufacturer's 60 hours.



Thanks for the clarification. Any idea how much power is dissipated across the resistor? To my limited understanding of these things, the LED doesn't appear as a simple resistive load so a straightforward Ohm's Law calculation wouldn't work. I'm asking because it could be useful to specify different resistor values to trade brightness for run time.


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## lampeDépêche (Feb 7, 2018)

dgbrookman said:


> Thanks for the clarification. Any idea how much power is dissipated across the resistor? To my limited understanding of these things, the LED doesn't appear as a simple resistive load so a straightforward Ohm's Law calculation wouldn't work. I'm asking because it could be useful to specify different resistor values to trade brightness for run time.



"To my limited understanding"? Those are fighting words, pal--MY understanding is FAR more limited than yours. Hell, my lack of understanding will meet your lack of understanding behind the gym after school, and settle this once and for all.

More seriously, I just don't know enough to know how I would calculate the power-loss, whether or not the LED is a simple resistive load. Lynx Arc did some quick calculations that suggested that the resistor might be burning up maybe 5% of the power, but I don't know what assumptions lay behind those calculations.

For what it's worth, the 39-ohm resistor is just the standard Radio Shack, 1/4 watt axial lead, about 6mm long and 1mm in diameter. 

Also--the light-engine itself imposes some limits on how much resistance you can introduce. On the Eveready 1-Ds, the light would not start up with more resistance than 39 ohms, even on a fresh cell. A different light-engine will be able to start up with less current. I tried this trick with a Klarus Mi02, and it would light up with 150 ohms of resistance, though it was unusably dim. The Eveready did not light up at all, even with a 56-ohm.

I am in the middle of a longer-run experiment with a Gerber Infinity Ultra, modded with a Yuji 5700k, with an 82-ohm resistor on the back end of the battery. It puts out an even 0.3 lumens, my ideal for a night-time walk-around light, and it has been doing it for exactly two weeks today. That's over 330 hours on a single Eneloop AA. Of course, the ZL AA lights claim to put out that much light for 3 weeks, so I'll have to see how it goes for the next week. 

In any case--for a given light engine, you will have different options for how much resistance you can introduce. I wish I knew enough to know how to calculate stuff!


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## Lynx_Arc (Feb 9, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> . I wish I knew enough to know how to calculate stuff!


Just use Ohm's law there are calculators online for it you can plug in the resistor and measure the current in the circuit and calculate the voltage E=IR where E is Volts, I is Amps, and R is Resistance. You can then measure the total voltage across the circuit and use Watts Law which is P+IE where P is power in Watts, I is Amps, and E is volts. Once you know the total watts you can subtract the watts used by the resistor and divide it by the total to get the ratio of power used by the resistor to total power.


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## dgbrookman (Feb 9, 2018)

lampeDépêche said:


> "To my limited understanding"? Those are fighting words, pal--MY understanding is FAR more limited than yours. Hell, my lack of understanding will meet your lack of understanding behind the gym after school, and settle this once and for all.



Humpf. If it's true that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" then I am Han Solo, the Incredible Hulk, and James Bond all rolled into one.

As Lynx Arc says just above it should be possible to work it out with Ohm's Law (which is pretty much all I know about electronics). Assuming you have a multimeter the steps would go something like this.

With the circuit operating, measure the voltage across the resistor. Call this Vr (r for resistor).

By Ohm's Law the current flowing through the resistor is then equal to Vr / R, where R is the value of the resistor, i.e. R = 39 ohms in your case. Call this I.

Since it is a series circuit then the current flowing through each of the components is the same for every component, namely the value I you just computed. I _think_ this is right even though the LED is not an ideal resistive load.

Now measure the voltage across the + and - ends of the battery. Call this Vb (b for battery).

The total power through the circuit is Vb times I. Call this Pt (t for total).

The power dissipated by the resistor is Vr times I. Call this Pr.

The fraction of the total power "wasted" by the resistor is equal to the ratio of the power dissipated by the resistor to the total power of the circuit, that is, Pr divided by Pt. 

Lynx Arc knows a lot more about this stuff so he can correct anywhere I've gone wrong.


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## Lynx_Arc (Feb 10, 2018)

dgbrookman said:


> Humpf. If it's true that "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" then I am Han Solo, the Incredible Hulk, and James Bond all rolled into one.
> 
> As Lynx Arc says just above it should be possible to work it out with Ohm's Law (which is pretty much all I know about electronics). Assuming you have a multimeter the steps would go something like this.
> 
> ...


You got it right..... and those who are confused with the V vs E.... V=Volts E=Electromotive force (also volts)


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## flatline (Feb 11, 2018)

Both Targets I've been to this last week still have a space for the Eveready 1D, but are completely sold out. The Walmart had them on clearance for $3 for a 2-pack.

I hope this isn't an indication that they're being discontinued...unless they're being replaced by something even better...

--flatline


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## lampeDépêche (Feb 11, 2018)

flatline said:


> I hope this isn't an indication that they're being discontinued...--flatline



No, it's an indication of the incredible influence that Candelpowerforums has. All around the country, people have been talking to their neighbors over the back fence, saying, "did you see that post by flatline on 1-D lights? We've got to get down to Target right now!"

It's practically a stampede. It's Tickle-Me Elmo all over again, except for flashlights.


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## scout24 (Feb 12, 2018)

They're on sale at my local WalMart, too.


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## flatline (Feb 12, 2018)

Well, let's hope that whatever replaces them is at least as good.

It's tempting to pick up a couple more 2-packs, but, really, I have enough. I bet once they disappear from Walmart and Target, they'll still be available for a while from Big Lots and Bargain Hunt. It takes a while for those places to go through inventory.

--flatline


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## lampeDépêche (Feb 12, 2018)

Last night, my Eveready 1-D running the used Duracell was still putting out usable light. Tonight it's dead.

That's 45 days and nights, continuously on, 1080 hours, from a battery that was rated at 60% by the ZTS meter before I started. 

When I pulled the battery out, the voltage read 0.176v. 

Ten minutes later, it has recovered back up to 0.206v. I think that is pretty definitively drained.

I'm putting in a fresh Duracell. ZTS 100%. 1.61v on the DMM. I'll get back to you in a few months.


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## dgbrookman (Feb 18, 2018)

Finally got around to picking up a couple of these and did some testing. I don't have a 1D battery holder handy so I just rigged up something by taping test leads onto the supplied heavy-duty cell. Here are results for various resistor values. 



R 
Vb
Vr
Vf
I
eff
hours
days
10
1.61
0.69
0.92
66
57%
121
5
22
1.62
0.78
0.84
35
52%
229
10
33
1.62
0.81
0.81
24
50%
330
14
47
1.62
0.83
0.79
18
49%
452
19
100
1.63
0.96
0.66
10
41%
824
34


R is the nominal value of the resistor
Vb is measured voltage across the +/- ends of the battery
Vr is voltage across the resistor
Vf is voltage across the LED
I is current (milliamps) calculated as I = Vb / R
eff is "efficiency" defined as power consumed by the LED divided by total power supplied by the battery
hours is a crude estimate of battery life in hours obtained by dividing the rated battery capacity by I, and days is the equivalent number of days.

Subjectively the brightness with the 10 ohm resistor is a little lower than with no resistor. The 22, 33 and 47 ohm resistors are a little dimmer still but there isn't a huge difference between them. With the 100 ohm resistor the light is quite dim. It's similar to or maybe a little dimmer than the moonlight mode on my Nitecore Tip which is supposed to be 1 lumen.

The efficiency and lifetime values shouldn't be taken literally because things will change as the battery runs down. As the voltage decreases there will be less current drawn (this relation between voltage and current is a basic characteristic of LEDs) so the actual lifetime will probably be longer. This is consistent with what lampeDépêche said about getting 45 days of life when using a 33 (or was it 39?) ohm resistor. Maybe these values are somewhat useful in a relative sense.

My ramshackle "workbench" isn't much to admire and there are lots of smart people who probably knew about this sort of thing already. But it was a fun little experiment and it inspired me to look into some of the principles about how LEDs work.


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## Lynx_Arc (Feb 19, 2018)

You really cannot get a good idea of LED power and efficiency using resistors with having a boost circuit involved in the midst as it can range all over the place in efficiency. Even though a resistor can increase runtime by throttling down the power to the LED in the end it also interferes with the efficiency of the boost circuit. As your chart equates you can greatly increased runtime but loose a lot of power but also to a certain extent the eyes can manage the loss of output for the tradeof in insane runtime.


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## xxo (Feb 19, 2018)

dgbrookman said:


> Finally got around to picking up a couple of these and did some testing. I don't have a 1D battery holder handy so I just rigged up something by taping test leads onto the supplied heavy-duty cell. Here are results for various resistor values.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Thanks for the info. Did you have any data for the stock 1D without a resister?


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## lumen aeternum (Feb 19, 2018)

Change resistor value to maintain constant brightness? Variable resistor?


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## dgbrookman (Feb 22, 2018)

xxo said:


> Did you have any data for the stock 1D without a resister?



Without a resistor Vb = Vf, which measured 1.516 V. Since there's no resistor we can't use Ohm's Law to calculate I = V / R. However -- as mentioned there is a more-or-less linear relationship between I and Vf once you get past the low-voltage "knee" in the curve. Eyeballing a linear fit to the measured values of Vf and I, then extending it upwards gives I = 220 mA at Vf = 1.516 V. 

Unfortunately I can't figure out how to post the Excel graph.


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## flatline (Mar 14, 2018)

Target stores in my area have all re-stocked the 2-packs.

--flatline


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## bykfixer (Mar 15, 2018)

Finally had a reason to visit my local HD. $5.48 for a twin pack. Bought some #12 silicone o-rings for grip rings then asked myself "now why did I really come here?, oh yeah, paint."


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 2, 2018)

I was at Walmart the other day and saw something interesting..... a 1D light made by Ozark Mountain I think...... had a "chip" emitter and a magnifying lens and the case looked like the Energizer case with the same click switch. Price was under $3.


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## xxo (Apr 3, 2018)

My 1d eveready started flickering, turns out the problem was the strip of metal that connects the switch to the head of the light was bent and not making good contact - the metal strip is way too thin and easy to bend IMHO. Just a quick heads up in case anyone runs into this issue.


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## flatline (Apr 10, 2018)

I had a handful of "dead" AAA alkalines that came out of some radios at around 0.9v each. I've found that the Eveready 1D can get 2 nights of night-light duty out of each of these cells before it won't turn on again. That's about 20 hours of run-time split in half by a 14 hour resting period.

I continue to be impressed with these inexpensive lights.

--flatline


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## flatline (Apr 10, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I was at Walmart the other day and saw something interesting..... a 1D light made by Ozark Mountain I think...... had a "chip" emitter and a magnifying lens and the case looked like the Energizer case with the same click switch. Price was under $3.



Does it produce a "full moon" type beam or something more tolerable?

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 10, 2018)

flatline said:


> Does it produce a "full moon" type beam or something more tolerable?
> 
> --flatline


I don't know for sure, as I didn't purchase one of them but I suspect it is a sort of hybrid beam.


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## flatline (Jun 2, 2018)

As xxo pointed out in another thread, Rayovac has a new 1D flashlight on their website: The Brite Essentials

http://www.rayovac.com/products/lig...ls-1d-led-hang-loop-flashlight-twin-pack.aspx

The specs are promising: 20L for 140 hours on an alkaline D cell.

The pics all look like autocad drawings, so there's no telling what these things really look like.

Has anyone seen these in stores yet?

--flatline


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## bykfixer (Jun 3, 2018)

While the up and coming Chinese light companies are fighting the lumen wars while making them cheaper and cheaper the 2 worlds oldest light makers are developing products aimed squarely at the budget minded consumer. An old school idea being rekindled. 

Is it working in 2018? Eh, time will tell. 
A look back at history shows that battery makers made flashlights. Some were nice, like Burgess and Bright Star who produced a nicer version of same ole sameness where Eveready and Rayovac both made lights at the lower end of the cost scale. Profit was made by selling batteries. It worked for 100 years. 

Now that rechargeables are moving forward battery sales are slipping and sliding faster than a World Cup skier in Switzerland. Yet the average consumer still prefers convenience. 
Folks, we are at a point where 35% of Americas population below the age of 40 says preparing a bowl of breakfast cereal takes to long. So folks would rather pay $6 for a box of 6 breakfast bars than $3 for enough Cheerios to live on for 2 weeks. 

Enter Rayovac Brite Essentials and Eveready LED/DEL lineup. They arrive with uber cheap carbon zinc cells, (sometimes already installed) and tout lots of hours runtime. And hey, their $3 each. Battery leaks, switch breaks, goes dim.... toss 'em in the trash and move on. It's the Bic lighter for the new millenium.

It worked for them from the 1970's (and before) until a few years ago when the incan and LED were equally costly to produce. And thanks to lumen wars these two companies can easily and cheaply produce lights with enough output for the average consumer while able to run dozens of hours on fuel cells that probably cost a dime a dozen (or less) to produce. 

I have the 2aa version of the 1D xxo and flatline mention. It was $3 and is similar to $1.99 lights from the 70's and 80's but is brighter than the 2 cell light bulb and is stated to run 45 hours. 

Not only that, but they can be found in gas stations, grocery stores, drug stores and other places Amazon hasn't taken over. 

It's simple genious marketing that began in New York by a man named Conrad Hubert in about 1915.

I'm doing a thread in the budget section about these style flashlights. While the plastic ones are... well, plastic, there are actually some decently made metal products being sold by these two companies. Eveready owns Energizer and they are producing some fairly durable forward thinking lights that compete with the Rayovac Indestructable line. So while ching-ping and fong-gong are trying to out SureFire SureFire, Rayovac and Eveready are quietly taking back the consumer market using old school products with new school technologies.

It was something I think Maglite had in mind with the ML25 in 016 where a 2c (or 3) sized tube was built around the minimag platform. Meanwhile they are being found in less and less spaces so they are attempting to find a spot in the online market place. Coast, Defiant, Lux Pro and others squeezed Maglite shelf space smaller and smaller into near extinction. So they are in rebuild mode right now. But don't count Maglite out just yet. Tony Maglica has some pretty savvy people around him and their new lineup is quietly picking up steam.
I hope to see something like an ML12.5c (or D) where it's an uber runtime 1 cell light, but Tony seems stuck in those lumen wars right now.


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## Poppy (Jun 3, 2018)

flatline said:


> As xxo pointed out in another thread, Rayovac has a new 1D flashlight on their website: The Brite Essentials
> 
> http://www.rayovac.com/products/lig...ls-1d-led-hang-loop-flashlight-twin-pack.aspx
> 
> ...


Its a shame that they don't display a picture of the working end of the light... the LED. 
Is it a COB, an LED, or one of those PR2 LEDs?


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## bykfixer (Jun 3, 2018)

It's a PR2 platform Poppy.






1970's style setup with a Sandwich Shoppe clone LED.


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## flatline (Jun 3, 2018)

Poppy said:


> Its a shame that they don't display a picture of the working end of the light... the LED.
> Is it a COB, an LED, or one of those PR2 LEDs?



The 2AA light uses a 3v PR2 bulb. I've never seen a 1.5v PR2 bulb from Rayovac, so I'm not sure what to expect from the 1D light.

If the 1D light has a 1.5v PR2 bulb, then I'll buy a dozen of them. I've got a bunch of old 2D flashlights that I'd love to convert to 1D lights.

--flatline


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## flatline (Jun 3, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> It's a PR2 platform Poppy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Is that the 1D light or the 2AA light?

--flatline


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## bykfixer (Jun 3, 2018)

Thatz a 2aa FL.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 3, 2018)

flatline said:


> The 2AA light uses a 3v PR2 bulb. I've never seen a 1.5v PR2 bulb from Rayovac, so I'm not sure what to expect from the 1D light.
> 
> If the 1D light has a 1.5v PR2 bulb, then I'll buy a dozen of them. I've got a bunch of old 2D flashlights that I'd love to convert to 1D lights.
> 
> --flatline


The first generation Eveready 1D LED lights had a 1.5v PR base bulb in them that would run off 2 nimh batteries but at times 2 alkalines would overdrive and fry them. The main problem with some of the PR base LED dropins is the focus of them doesn't always work with old incan lights at all, only focusing incans can get them to work.


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## flatline (Jun 3, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> The first generation Eveready 1D LED lights had a 1.5v PR base bulb in them that would run off 2 nimh batteries but at times 2 alkalines would overdrive and fry them. The main problem with some of the PR base LED dropins is the focus of them doesn't always work with old incan lights at all, only focusing incans can get them to work.




It's definitely hit or miss. The 3v bulb that Rayovac is using in that 2AA works great in my old yellow industrial 2D duracell flashlights. 

I don't like the beam of the 2AA because of the lens they use. The little "mound" in the middle may give a nice hot spot in the beam, but the area around the hot spot is significantly dimmer than the spill which is annoying. The Eveready 1D light does not have that problem.

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 3, 2018)

flatline said:


> It's definitely hit or miss. The 3v bulb that Rayovac is using in that 2AA works great in my old yellow industrial 2D duracell flashlights.
> 
> I don't like the beam of the 2AA because of the lens they use. The little "mound" in the middle may give a nice hot spot in the beam, but the area around the hot spot is significantly dimmer than the spill which is annoying. The Eveready 1D light does not have that problem.
> 
> --flatline


I agree the magnifying mound on the 2AA Rayovac is no good, my issue with them is the light itself doesn't hold up well in use I've broken 2 of them and except for the dropin don't recommend the lights but as a one use light (disposable). 
I have a few 2 cell lights using dropins still but almost never use them due to having 1AA and 18650 LED lights to use instead. My D cell lights are all stand by emergency type lights scattered in strategic locations that have sit there unused for the last 15 years. 
In other words I have so many other LED lights that putting drop ins to convert old incans is no longer needed.


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## flatline (Jun 3, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> In other words I have so many other LED lights that putting drop ins to convert old incans is no longer needed.



I'm in exactly the same place. I don't need to upgrade anything, but it's fun and, as far as hobbies go, still cheaper than drinking.

--flatline


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## flatline (Jun 7, 2018)

I discovered that the NiteIze 55L LED PR bulb will run fine on a single alkaline cell even though it states it's for "2 to 6 cell flashlights". My meter says it pulls about 100mA at 1.5v. I did not attempt to determine how low the voltage can go before it quits.

The beam can be very nicely focused in a Maglite, so if you've got a 2D Maglite and a spacer, you can make a 1D light out of it.

However, in all the other lights I tried it in, the beam was terrible. Nice spill but the hotspot was all weird. Taking out the reflector resulted in a nice even beam with no hotspot, so that could work as long as your light doesn't rely on the reflector to press the bulb down against a spring.

Just food for thought.

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 8, 2018)

flatline said:


> I discovered that the NiteIze 55L LED PR bulb will run fine on a single alkaline cell even though it states it's for "2 to 6 cell flashlights". My meter says it pulls about 100mA at 1.5v. I did not attempt to determine how low the voltage can go before it quits.
> 
> The beam can be very nicely focused in a Maglite, so if you've got a 2D Maglite and a spacer, you can make a 1D light out of it.
> 
> ...



I've got a few of similar dropins that work fine off 1 battery down below 0.9v I think. I've used a bent paper clip to attach these to a D cell and they work fine.


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## flatline (Jun 8, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I've got a few of similar dropins that work fine off 1 battery down below 0.9v I think. I've used a bent paper clip to attach these to a D cell and they work fine.



I've done that and then put a paper cup over it to make a lamp when camping.

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 9, 2018)

flatline said:


> I've done that and then put a paper cup over it to make a lamp when camping.
> 
> --flatline


I almost miss being rather poor and being unable to afford decent lights as I made a lot of cheap stuff to do the job that either nothing was out there for it or the price of stuff to do it was insane. 1D lights were the best long running solution long ago with the energizer accent lanterns. Now I look for a 1 18650 lantern on the cheap that has at least 2 levels..... 1 at about 1-5 lumens and another at about 50 lumens so you can have uber long running find it easily mode and a decent area light for long use. I see no need for a higher mode for a power outage lantern of this sort.


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## lightseeker2009 (Jun 10, 2018)

Please bear with me as my post might sound sarcastic. It is not.
You get 500+ lumen single AA led flashlights. I am very dissapointed that there are no 1D lights that also can achieve this feat. Why buy a light that has one setting of just 20 lumens while you allready have big flashlights that can provide in excess of 2000 lumens with the push of a button, yet can also run for days on 10 or 20 lumens? If ever a company builds a single d-cell light capable of the same lumens as my Sunwayman V10A I will be the first one to buy it. Especially if it will have the same magnetic control ring as the V10A. I will gladly pay in excess of $100 for such a light. Come on Fenix, Nitecore, Sunwayman. I just know such a light will make a killing. Especially if it can also be used with 32600 cells. Really, I will not be your only customar. I don't want to buy a cheap plastic light with a switch that can fail any minute. I want a quality multi mode or magnetic controlled 1D light!


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## lightseeker2009 (Jun 10, 2018)

Was this flashlight mentioned before? This one has 100 lumens and can still run for days...
Sanford-1D-Army-Series-Torch-Light-SF2639SL-1D-BS


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 11, 2018)

lightseeker2009 said:


> Please bear with me as my post might sound sarcastic. It is not.
> You get 500+ lumen single AA led flashlights. I am very dissapointed that there are no 1D lights that also can achieve this feat. Why buy a light that has one setting of just 20 lumens while you allready have big flashlights that can provide in excess of 2000 lumens with the push of a button, yet can also run for days on 10 or 20 lumens? If ever a company builds a single d-cell light capable of the same lumens as my Sunwayman V10A I will be the first one to buy it. Especially if it will have the same magnetic control ring as the V10A. I will gladly pay in excess of $100 for such a light. Come on Fenix, Nitecore, Sunwayman. I just know such a light will make a killing. Especially if it can also be used with 32600 cells. Really, I will not be your only customar. I don't want to buy a cheap plastic light with a switch that can fail any minute. I want a quality multi mode or magnetic controlled 1D light!


The problem is the 1AA 500 lumen light uses a 14500 lithium ion battery and these cheap 1D lights usually come with heavy duty batteries and typically an alkaline D cell is almost overkill. The moment you aren't able to use 1.5v batteries in it that is the time it isn't really a 1D light. IMO a $100 lithium ion based 1D sized light isn't worth it when you can easily buy a ton of various 18650 based lights that are smaller and do the job the same for less than half the price. For a 1D light to compete with 18650 based lights it would have to be rather exceptional and IMO spending a lot for a light to get it ruined by alkaleaks isn't something folks want to do here.


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## lightseeker2009 (Jun 11, 2018)

Lynx_Arc said:


> The problem is the 1AA 500 lumen light uses a 14500 lithium ion battery and these cheap 1D lights usually come with heavy duty batteries and typically an alkaline D cell is almost overkill. The moment you aren't able to use 1.5v batteries in it that is the time it isn't really a 1D light. IMO a $100 lithium ion based 1D sized light isn't worth it when you can easily buy a ton of various 18650 based lights that are smaller and do the job the same for less than half the price. For a 1D light to compete with 18650 based lights it would have to be rather exceptional and IMO spending a lot for a light to get it ruined by alkaleaks isn't something folks want to do here.



I hear you. But, a 14500 light can still work with a normal AA NiMH, just with lower lumens. I personally would not mind having a nice big fat 8000 mah or more battery in a short fat flashlight. Even if it may only manage say 120 lumens with the NiMH. I already have a few 18650 lights and they are great, but variety is the spice of life:thumbsup:

This made me think. Will a 4XAA light not give about the same run time as a 1D NiMH light at the same lumens?


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## xxo (Jun 12, 2018)

Another budget 1D contender from Ozark Trail:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?447897-Ozark-Trail-1D-LED&p=5215093#post5215093


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 12, 2018)

lightseeker2009 said:


> I hear you. But, a 14500 light can still work with a normal AA NiMH, just with lower lumens. I personally would not mind having a nice big fat 8000 mah or more battery in a short fat flashlight. Even if it may only manage say 120 lumens with the NiMH. I already have a few 18650 lights and they are great, but variety is the spice of life:thumbsup:
> 
> This made me think. Will a 4XAA light not give about the same run time as a 1D NiMH light at the same lumens?


It depends on the AA batteries used and the NiMH D cell used with most of the focus on overall capacity as better and more expensive NiMH D cell can have higher total capacity than some AA NiMH batteries.


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## flatline (Jun 15, 2018)

xxo said:


> Another budget 1D contender from Ozark Trail:
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?447897-Ozark-Trail-1D-LED&p=5215093#post5215093



I just picked one of these up. The display box says 40 lumens but no other useful information. It is definitely brighter than the Eveready but I have no way of accurately measuring the output. I'm willing to believe 40L as claimed.

I looked at 6 lights that were in the display and found only one that didn't have obvious scratches or black stuff (glue?) on the reflector, so that's the one I brought home. The beam is functional, but not pretty. It has a decent hot spot, but several rings in the transition to spill and then 2 more rings in the spill itself. I blame the rings on the magnifying mound they put in the lens, but I don't really know that since I can't try the light without the lens to compare.

So, on one hand, I'm pleased that there is another 1D light out there. On the other hand, I think it's inferior to the Eveready 1D that we discussed earlier in this thread.

I think it'll go in the garage.

Edit: in retrospect, I was too harsh when I posted this. It's a fine light for $3 if you want a little more output than the Eveready 1D provides. It was beyond stupid for me to complain that a $3 light has ugly rings in the spill.

--flatline


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## flatline (Jun 16, 2018)

lightseeker2009 said:


> I hear you. But, a 14500 light can still work with a normal AA NiMH, just with lower lumens. I personally would not mind having a nice big fat 8000 mah or more battery in a short fat flashlight. Even if it may only manage say 120 lumens with the NiMH. I already have a few 18650 lights and they are great, but variety is the spice of life:thumbsup:
> 
> This made me think. Will a 4XAA light not give about the same run time as a 1D NiMH light at the same lumens?



Check out the Lumintop SD4A. It's a 4xAA light that will run at reduced output when loaded with 1D. I've read positive reviews of it, but have no personal experience with it.

--flatline


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## bykfixer (Jun 16, 2018)

Liking the retrospect comment FL.

But let's face it. It's CPF. So flaws get mentioned (if only by habit). But that also means the per-snickety type will leave them alone.... so they'll be there for the non-per-snickety CPFr's...


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## lightseeker2009 (Jun 17, 2018)

flatline said:


> Check out the Lumintop SD4A. It's a 4xAA light that will run at reduced output when loaded with 1D. I've read positive reviews of it, but have no personal experience with it.
> 
> --flatline



This is a nice light. Only gripe I have with it is the big jump from low to mid. 37 lumens to 350 lumens leaves too much of a gap for me. If there where just one more setting of say 150 lumens between 37 and 350, this light would have made mymy shortlist. 

I do own a cheapy, plastic 4AA single mode flaslight. I tested it's runtime once. It was over 55 hours. The reason why I mention this light is because it can also work with a single D-cell, though that is not mentioned on the products retail box. 
I have not yet packed out all my boxes after I've moved, so I cannot confirm its model number. But here is a link, I am sure it's the same light. 
https://www.opticsplanet.com/energizer-4aa-compact-led-area-light.html
It would therefore aslo work with a 32600. That should increase it's runtime dramatically I'm sure


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## flatline (Jun 17, 2018)

lightseeker2009 said:


> This is a nice light. Only gripe I have with it is the big jump from low to mid. 37 lumens to 350 lumens leaves too much of a gap for me. If there where just one more setting of say 150 lumens between 37 and 350, this light would have made mymy shortlist.



The reported output on 1D is 1/38/111/166/208. No big gaps, but the top 3 levels are pretty close together.

--flatline


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## lightseeker2009 (Jun 17, 2018)

flatline said:


> The reported output on 1D is 1/38/111/166/208. No big gaps, but the top 3 levels are pretty close together.
> 
> --flatline



Actually very nice!
Here is the exact light I talked about
https://www.builders.co.za/Garden-&...MIu5Kvle3Z2wIV6rXtCh2qqQhmEAQYASABEgLU6fD_BwE


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## tech25 (Jul 1, 2018)

I just got a pair of the rayovac 1D lights. This are really good emergency lights for keeping around esp for non flashlight people. I will cover the hole at the bottom and give it to a family member who lives in an area that has occasional power outages.


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## flatline (Jul 1, 2018)

tech25 said:


> I just got a pair of the rayovac 1D lights. This are really good emergency lights for keeping around esp for non flashlight people. I will cover the hole at the bottom and give it to a family member who lives in an area that has occasional power outages.




Where did you find them?


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## tech25 (Jul 1, 2018)

They were in a side display in a random aisle at Home Depot


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## flatline (Jul 3, 2018)

I don't know why I didn't try this before, but the Maglite 2D LED flashlight I bought years ago will fire up on a single cell.

I guess I've had a potential 1D flashlight for years without knowing it.

I'll get some current measurements when I find my multimeter...I know it's around somewhere...

--flatline


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 4, 2018)

flatline said:


> I don't know why I didn't try this before, but the Maglite 2D LED flashlight I bought years ago will fire up on a single cell.
> 
> I guess I've had a potential 1D flashlight for years without knowing it.
> 
> ...


I have several mag 2D LED drop ins that run fine off a single battery. One such drop in I've incorporated into a light that was 4 button cells converted to 1AAA and a drop in I still have hanging from a lamp by my computer I've used in power outages.
1 cell lights (cheap) are wonderful for power outages. In the past however there wasn't a lot of reasonably priced lights with low enough modes to replace these battery suckers. With a decent 18650 or 2AA etc light with a ~5 lumen or less mode the need for 1D lights is considerably a lot less. I have several 1D lanterns in the house and I never use them now as we used to get power outages often sometimes 5-7 times a year lasting from 20 minutes to several hours but since 2007 I only remember one long outage of about 4 hours and another one by the time I shut my computer down after 10 minutes the power came on after 15 minutes.


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## flatline (Jul 7, 2018)

lightseeker2009 said:


> Actually very nice!
> Here is the exact light I talked about
> https://www.builders.co.za/Garden-&...MIu5Kvle3Z2wIV6rXtCh2qqQhmEAQYASABEgLU6fD_BwE



I've seen what looks like this same light at the hardware store, but the plastic is colored different...red and black (blue?). Claims 70L for 35 hours on 2AA and 70 hours on 4AA. I think it was priced around $15-ish.

--flatline


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