# The Dereelight EDC ~ C2H



## orbital (Sep 3, 2008)

*The Dereelight EDC ~ C2H {XP-G avaliable}*

+
*
Edit 12/31: XP-G units w/ specific reflector available any day from dealers*

It's been a long time coming, but the elusive Dereelight EDC is called the C2H.

With Dereelight having the 'king' thrower with the DBS
and one of the best P60 lights with the CL1H, 
the new C2H could be in the top EDCs' to date.

Thanks for making it happen Alan..






Preliminary specs. & wording
http://www.dereelight.com/c2h.htm

~This is unofficial at the moment ~


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## Phaserburn (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Dereelight EDC light ~ C2H*

Very nice; I wonder if it uses the same pills that the Deree's other lights do. That would be great.


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## depusm12 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Dereelight EDC light ~ C2H*

Looks very nice. Hopefully it will be nice and slim in AA form


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## lightfet (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Dereelight EDC light ~ C2H*

We need pictures!


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## LED_Thrift (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Dereelight EDC light ~ C2H*



Phaserburn said:


> ...I wonder if it uses the same pills that the Deree's other lights do. That would be great.


 
That is the most important question. Yes, it would be great, but he may be trying to get a smaller pill size for this one.


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## AFAustin (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: Dereelight EDC ~ C2H*

Looks interesting. Can someone please explain to me this excerpt from the specs:

"Lithium battery over-discharging protection(default), you can use unprotected 14500(with AA extention tube), or RCR123; if you want use AA or CR123A, break a wire on the back of the driver, sold again if want the protection, details refer to the user manual;"

Thanks.


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## shakeylegs (Sep 3, 2008)

I saw that too. My translation would be: Set up for 14500's. By clipping a wire on the driver, it accomodates AA's and cr123's. Replacement boards are available if you want to have it both ways.


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## Spotpuff (Sep 3, 2008)

I think in this case sold is short for solder rather than a sale.

DL is my favourite flashlight company and Alan is a great CSR, so I am definitely interested in this. If it uses the same P60 pills, that would be amazing, however given the form factor I highly doubt it.

Still, if DL started selling AA light compatible pills, even if they only worked in DL lights, that'd be great since it saves the cost of upgrading.


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## kavvika (Sep 3, 2008)

With the forward clickie, *!3 simple modes!*, and an option for a warm white emitter, this light looks like a winner.

Not sure how they're going to pull off both NiMh/Alkaline AA and 3.7V Li-Ion compatibility though. Maybe a buck/boost driver?

And +1 regarding the excellent CS provided by Alan. On par with Surefire, from my experience.


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## depusm12 (Sep 3, 2008)

Hopefully the HA III Natural will be darker on this light or it will be offered in a HA III Black like my DBS.


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## Thujone (Sep 3, 2008)

Hope they will offer a clip free version...


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## orbital (Sep 3, 2008)

Spotpuff said:


> I think in this case sold is short for solder rather than a sale.
> 
> DL is my favourite flashlight company and Alan is a great CSR, so I am definitely interested in this. If it uses the same P60 pills, that would be amazing, however given the form factor I highly doubt it.
> 
> Still, if DL started selling AA light compatible pills, even if they only worked in DL lights, that'd be great since it saves the cost of upgrading.



+

I think you're correct, sold' was possibly a mistype for soldering the wire.
Anyway, having a backup 14500/RCR is not such an issue.

The upgradability of Dereelight has been their biggest plus, 
Alans' good about keeping up with what people need.


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## clintb (Sep 3, 2008)

Wow, just based on those initial pics, I'll be picking up the R123 model. Please say it'll be available in black.

Some items for consideration:
- a lower low
- forget memory and make it come on in low every time.


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 3, 2008)

Looks interesting, targeted at simple & reliable EDC.
I doubt a D26 pill will fit into a 16mm tube. But I think that being upgradable will be a big plus.


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## Metatron (Sep 3, 2008)




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## liquidsix (Sep 3, 2008)

So about the UI: "press and hold the switch slightly within 1 second for mode change"

What does that mean? Is it like a tap-hold like the D10 has to jump to high? Or is it: turn it fully on, and then within 1 second of that put some pressure on the switch to change stages? Or is it just the same old annoying tap within a second of your last tap to get to the next stage (which, I don't understand how that's accomplished on a forward clickie)? Are you allowed that initial accidental momentary 'blink' before it comes on without it changing stages on you?

Another thing, what's the selling point for this light for you guys? Looks aside, for me it's the upgradability (that is, if I like the UI). No other light of this form factor(s) seems to offer the ability to survive innovation.


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## youreacrab (Sep 3, 2008)

i'll order when i stop drooling.


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## Spotpuff (Sep 4, 2008)

liquidsix said:


> So about the UI: "press and hold the switch slightly within 1 second for mode change"
> 
> What does that mean? Is it like a tap-hold like the D10 has to jump to high? Or is it: turn it fully on, and then within 1 second of that put some pressure on the switch to change stages? Or is it just the same old annoying tap within a second of your last tap to get to the next stage (which, I don't understand how that's accomplished on a forward clickie)? Are you allowed that initial accidental momentary 'blink' before it comes on without it changing stages on you?
> 
> Another thing, what's the selling point for this light for you guys? Looks aside, for me it's the upgradability (that is, if I like the UI). No other light of this form factor(s) seems to offer the ability to survive innovation.



If it's the same as the 3SD then you tap the tailswitch to switch modes and if the light is off for 1s or more it "remembers" the mode, but the way it's worded is confusing because it makes it sound like the opposite; keep the light on for 1s and it remembers. Guess we'll see when people start getting them.

For me the selling points are amazing DL customer service via Alan and upgradability. No other manufacturer makes it so easy to swap in new pills as DL, so they will continue to get my business.


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## orbital (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: Dereelight EDC light ~ C2H*



Phaserburn said:


> Very nice; I wonder if it uses the same pills that the Deree's other lights do. That would be great.



+

Just a quick update:

Alan sent me a PM, the C2H will use pills for its light engine, but with a smaller form factor than current pills.
(necessary for the smaller EDC size light)
This keeps upgrading very simple, an ongoing Dereelight concept.

Also, the natural HA III on the C2H is to be slightly darker than the previous CL1H/DBS versions.

Hopefully more info soon.


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## Phaserburn (Sep 6, 2008)

Thanks for the update, Orbital. Staying tuned...


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## kurni (Sep 6, 2008)

How about regulation? I can't find the usual "constant output at it's fully input range" in the spec.


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## jake25 (Sep 6, 2008)

3SD means digital, which means digital regulation, which probably means a nice flat output


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## kurni (Sep 6, 2008)

jake25 said:


> 3SD means digital, which means digital regulation, which probably means a nice flat output



I just find it rather odd not finding an explicit "constant output" claim. I hope to find enough reason to replace my P2D RB100.


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## CanadianEh (Sep 21, 2008)

orbital said:


> ~This is unofficial at the moment ~



It's official now.


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## Evil Twin (Sep 21, 2008)

CanadianEh said:


> It's official now.



Yes it is. I just emailed Alan about it, since the web page left some questions unanswered for me. 

Here is some additional info from Dereelight (he gave me permission to post this) regarding the 4SD driver :



The driver is fully regulated, constant output from 2V~4.2V. 


Output on high is 1A


Lux @ 1m is about 4,000 with SMO reflector on high
Hope this helps anyone who is considering this light.


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## ArtFranklin (Sep 21, 2008)

The PayPal site is currently experiencing technical difficulties with our credit card processor. We are working to solve this problem as quickly as possible. If you would like to Send Money, please fund your payment with your PayPal balance, PayPal Credit or bank account. If you would like to use your credit card, please return to the PayPal website later to complete your transaction. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Maybe a sign I should wait...

Paypal sucks sometimes.

Just received shipping info tonight 9/25. 4 days order-to-ship. I guess a week for delivery? Not bad I guess.


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## hellter (Sep 21, 2008)

Ain´t no interchanging between the battery types anymore? "Just" an upgrade feature?


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## KRS1 (Sep 21, 2008)

wondering what's the run time on full blast:thinking:


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## mdocod (Sep 21, 2008)

from C2H features list said:


> Lithium battery over-discharge protection(default. You can use unprotected RCR123; if you want to use CR123A, cut or un-solder a wire on the back of the driver, RE- solder again if you want the protection, details are in the users book.When the battery can no longer supply enough juice for high mode, medium and low will still work a while. Remember to charge soon when this happens.



Um... I've seen extremely small jumpers, and switches installed on PC boards for turning various functions on and off. I really hope DereeLight takes this into consideration. 

Most of us use protected cells anyways, so it would be most convenient to just cut the wire from the get go, so you could carry CR123 primaries as backups and know they would work correctly if needed. 

The issue of the "wire" cutting/soldering is the only bothersome issue for me about the design aspect of this EDC. Everything else looks AWESOME. I'm not big on multi-mode lights, accept for headlamps, and in some cases, compact "survival" EDC type lights, which I would probably group this one into. The nice spread of modes, with the lowest being 1% is a great idea on the 4 mode IMO. 

Eric


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## orbital (Sep 21, 2008)

*Re: The Dereelight EDC ~ C2H *pictures**

+

Yep, now its official!!..







My old "If Dereelight made an EDC..." thread is nearly a year old now.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=171887

Thanks Alan for making it happen!


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## Phaserburn (Sep 21, 2008)

*Re: The Dereelight EDC ~ C2H *pictures**

Will there be a warm 5A version?


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## divine (Sep 21, 2008)

*Re: The Dereelight EDC ~ C2H *pictures**



Phaserburn said:


> Will there be a warm 5A version?


I thought in the discussion, that the 5A was going to happen.

I need to find out before I try a new edc.


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## Ctrain (Sep 22, 2008)

Are these shipping already? I cant wait for a review


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## kurni (Sep 22, 2008)

I really want the Q2 5A version.

I'm a bit worried about the lack of claim "fully regulated at input range"; I heard indirectly from Alan that it is fully regulated, but why doesn't he put such claim in the website?


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## kavvika (Sep 22, 2008)

I hate to sound like I'm complaining, but this is an EDC light...so why does it start out on high? I'll hang on to my E1L a little longer.


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## fitzDaug (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm waiting for a CL1H V4 and some pills/drop-ins that should arrive this week. I'm really tempted by the C2H, but the part about cutting a wire and soldering is keeping me away.

I'll wait and see what the second version is like.

Everything else looks great though.


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## lightfet (Sep 22, 2008)

Alright guys the C2H page is updated with pics.

http://www.dereelight.com/c2h.htm


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## youreacrab (Sep 22, 2008)

what happened to the AA option?


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## WadeF (Sep 22, 2008)

kavvika said:


> I hate to sound like I'm complaining, but this is an EDC light...so why does it start out on high? I'll hang on to my E1L a little longer.


 
It doesn't, it has memory. If you want it to turn on in low, then you set it for low, leave it there for over 1 second, and turn it off. Then the next time you turn it on, it comes on in low, or medium, or whatever mode you last used.


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## orbital (Sep 22, 2008)

WadeF said:


> It doesn't, it has memory. If you want it to turn on in low, then you set it for low, leave it there for over 1 second, and turn it off. Then the next time you turn it on, it comes on in low, or medium, or whatever mode you last used.



+

I think its a needed addition for the 1% level on the SD lineup.

So lets say the 1% level is a couple lumens, you can start up at that Low 1% and one click bets you to full blast,...
Then its only a couple clicks to get you to 5%


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## cal..45 (Sep 22, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> what happened to the AA option?



good question, an EDC without the AA option isn't exactly the smartest idea IMO....


regards, holger


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## torpeau (Sep 22, 2008)

Looks good and I'm definitely interested. I hope the clip is easily removable. A 3.2" length isn't too bad.

I really like these being upgradable!!


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## kavvika (Sep 22, 2008)

WadeF said:


> It doesn't, it has memory. If you want it to turn on in low, then you set it for low, leave it there for over 1 second, and turn it off. Then the next time you turn it on, it comes on in low, or medium, or whatever mode you last used.


Oh yes, forgot about that part! But that's just one more thing about this light that doesn't fit my needs. How am I supposed to remember which mode I turned the light off in? Then switching to low each time I _do_ remember is going to be a hassle.

I want a light with no memory and starts in low mode first, and it seems the Surefire E1L is the only light that can do this.


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## CanadianEh (Sep 22, 2008)

kavvika said:


> I want a light with no memory and starts in low mode first, and it seems the Surefire E1L is the only light that can do this.



My preference is to start on low first as well. At Alan's request I created a poll here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/206752

Majority Says: Memory Mode. Looks like a great light so I went ahead and ordered one anyways. I hope there will be a memory-less pill upgrade in the future.


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## WadeF (Sep 22, 2008)

kavvika said:


> I want a light with no memory and starts in low mode first, and it seems the Surefire E1L is the only light that can do this.


 
Luckily there are many lights on the market so you can find one that best suits your needs.  The Fenix P2D can start on low, every time, as long as you don't have the bezel tight for Turbo mode. 

For me it's not that big of a deal to set my light to low and turn it off if I want it to come on in low the next time. I do this all the time with my Nitecore EX10. I use it at whatever brightness level I want, then if I know I want it to come on in low the next time I use it I tap-tap for low and turn it off. If I want it to come on in high the next time I use it I tap-hold for high and turn it off, if I'm not already set to max. It's easy, for me at least.


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## WadeF (Sep 22, 2008)

cal..45 said:


> good question, an EDC without the AA option isn't exactly the smartest idea IMO....
> 
> 
> regards, holger


 
Using AA's wouldn't be the smartest idea IMO...


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## cal..45 (Sep 22, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Using AA's wouldn't be the smartest idea IMO...



why not wade? 

unless someone developes a 2000 mah RCR123, I definitely prefer my eneloop driven nitecore D10 over my 500-600 mah driven fenix P2D. like so many things in life it's a matter of preference I guess, but I rather have great run-time than extra lumens and the nitecore isn't that much darker on max. than the fenix on turbo. 


regards, holger


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## WadeF (Sep 22, 2008)

cal..45 said:


> why not wade?
> 
> unless someone developes a 2000 mah RCR123, I definitely prefer my eneloop driven nitecore D10 over my 500-600 mah driven fenix P2D. like so many things in life it's a matter of preference I guess, but I rather have great run-time than extra lumens and the nitecore isn't that much darker on max. than the fenix on turbo.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not so sure the run time between a Eneloop and a R123 is that different. It's 750mah at 3.7v (I use AW) vs. 2000mah at 1.2v. I'm sure someone here could explain the difference better than myself, but I figured them to be about the same, and some of the run tests here show that:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/206986

A primary CR123 will trump either for run time.


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## Blindasabat (Sep 22, 2008)

I had a long treatise written on this, but the database error erased it. Here is all I have the patience to write again...

<<edit:> and in hurriedly re-writing, I completely goofed it up. the resulting units are not Watts. See corrected below >

Power is the real measure to compare different voltage cells (Voltage times Amps = Watts):
Eneloop = 1.2V times 2000mAh = *2400* Volt-milliAmphours
RCR123 = 3.7V times 750mA = *2775* V-mAh
CR123 = 3.0V times 1300mA = *3900* V-mAh

old NiMH = 1.2V times 2800mA = *3360* V-mAh - though there is a reason Eneloops are popular - all my old style NiMH seem to always be dead if I have not JUST recharged them.

All depends on what you need or have standardized to.


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## youreacrab (Sep 22, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Using AA's wouldn't be the smartest idea IMO...



i'm not sure that neglecting the preference for AA's shared by a very significant population of this board is the smartest idea.


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## mdocod (Sep 22, 2008)

cal..45 said:


> why not wade?
> 
> unless someone developes a 2000 mah RCR123, I definitely prefer my eneloop driven nitecore D10 over my 500-600 mah driven fenix P2D. like so many things in life it's a matter of preference I guess, but I rather have great run-time than extra lumens and the nitecore isn't that much darker on max. than the fenix on turbo.
> 
> ...



I think you are confusing amp hours with watt hours:

For one thing, the P2D can't be compared to this DereeLight as the P2D can't use a 3.7V cell and still function correctly, you are stuck with a 3.0V cell on a P2D which puts a major damper available capacity within the RCR123 size cell.

Here's the "options"

1. A 1.2V ~2000mAH eneloop (or similar), true capacity under a load is closer to 1.95AH, for a grand total of about 2.35 watt hours realistically.


2. A "3.0V" voltage regulated LiCo cell, label capacities vary by brand, they tend to be around 550-600mAH: 1.7 watt hours realistically (gives or take).

3. A "3.0V" LiFeP04 cell, label capacities vary, realistic capacity is 350mAH: Or around 1 watt hour.

4. A 3.7V LiCo cell, label capacities vary from brand to brand, they are all about 550-600mAH, for a total realistic capacity of about 2.15 watt hours. 


Compare the watt-hours, not the amp hours capacity. A 3.7V RCR123 and an eneloop are very similar in total capacity, but with a 3.7V cell, you can make a brighter LED flashlight for a number of various reasons as compared with a 1.2V powered flashlight. 

The example above is exactly why I am always trying to convince people to STOP recommending the P1D and P2D flashlights to people. They get recommended SO much!! Then everyone wants to run a rechargeable cell, and they have to choose between a strange concept less than reliable voltage regulated cell, or a severely reduced capacity LiFeP04 cell. And for some strange reason, nobody who recommended the flashlight in the first place is there to help explain the lousy rechargeable solutions. With all the 1xCR123 lights coming out now that will take a 3.7V cell and still operate correctly, there is no reason for anyone to buy a P1D or P2D unless they specifically intend to run primary cells.

/rant off, thank you for allowing me to vent a bit 

Eric


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## WadeF (Sep 22, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> i'm not sure that neglecting the preference for AA's shared by a very significant population of this board is the smartest idea.


 
Tell that to Surefire.


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## Ctrain (Sep 22, 2008)

Just emailed Alan....

"Not available in black now, Dark grey only.
 
AA tube will not released.
 
Thanks for inquiry.
Alan"


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## divine (Sep 22, 2008)

Don't forget to mention that a lower voltage cell will need higher current output to make the light the same brightness... and higher current means more energy lost in heat. Power is I(squared)R, wire has resistance and the more current means more power lost in the wire.

You probably lose some power heating up the battery, too.


From my readings... a lot of people buy AA lights to run 3.7v, 14500 lithium cells in them, and only in an emergency will turn to an alkaline cell.


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## Fird (Sep 22, 2008)

mdocod said:


> I think you are confusing amp hours with watt hours:
> 
> For one thing, the P2D can't be compared to this DereeLight as the P2D can't use a 3.7V cell and still function correctly, you are stuck with a 3.0V cell on a P2D which puts a major damper available capacity within the RCR123 size cell...
> 
> ...



<rant>

I totally agree, and did we mention the same about s*fire?? most of their 1x123 and 2x123 lights can't handle 3.7v either.. umm, sorry not ever buying an expensive battery sucker that sucks expensive batteries. if i need to run off of primaries in an emergency the nice cheap AA standard will do me just fine...

</rant>

<comment on the light>

YEAH!! available on the Dereelight website now is what comes very close to the "perfect EDC" for me. I'd love to see it offered with the Q2 5A, or better yet a warm tint R2 LED option as well Alan!


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## Blindasabat (Sep 23, 2008)

Check facts.
Most of Surefire's 2x123 lights CAN handle RCR123. Several people have posted using using 2xRCR123 in E2DL and E2L. As a matter of fact, they run nicely off of one RCR123, 17670, or 18650 if you get one of the several bodies available that accept them - there is even an E-series Aleph 17500 body available. I run my E2DL solely off of 18650 and my E2L off RCR123 in an E1L body or the Aleph 17500-> Looks like an E1L, but brighter.


Fird said:


> <rant>
> 
> I totally agree, and did we mention the same about s*fire?? most of their 1x123 and 2x123 lights can't handle 3.7v either.. umm, sorry not ever buying an expensive battery sucker that sucks expensive batteries. if i need to run off of primaries in an emergency the nice cheap AA standard will do me just fine...
> </rant>
> ...


 
This light looks nice and the clip rocks, but the memory function tempers my enthusiasm. If they offer different UI drop-ins in the future, then one may appeal to me. Low first for an EDC. (My E2DL is not an EDC ligh tfor me, it is a home or car light)


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## WadeF (Sep 23, 2008)

Blindasabat said:


> Check facts.
> Most of Surefire's 2x123 lights CAN handle RCR123.


 
It's not an issue if they CAN, it's an issue of does SF state it is okay to run R123's, and will their warranty apply to lights that were running on R123's?


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## orbital (Sep 23, 2008)

+

The fact Alan dropped the 14500 extension is no big deal.
An upgradable, 123 size light with a forward switch at around 3.2"....:devil:

HDS/Ra damn near coined the term EDC and they're still runnin' 123s'

Nevertheless, I'm glad to see Alan & Dereelight make the C2H
and with some input, Alan will work to make upgrades even better.


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## StandardBattery (Sep 24, 2008)

orbital said:


> + ... HDS/Ra damn near coined the term EDC and they're still runnin' 123s' ...


 
There is talk of an AA tube though.

Now I can argue both sides of this debate, but I'll just point out that LSD AA NiMh cells do bring something new to the table that was not there before, not to mention the more efficient emitters. 

Lithium CR123A cells allow for different form factors and that is good. Retail prices and global availability need to be improved substantially.

I'm no fan of 3.7/4.2 Lithium-Ion 123 rechargeable cells. So I'm at odds with many on this point. I've been testing some 3V cells with safe chemistry for almost a year, maybe more, and they are OK. I'm not impressed with capacity; I may need better cells, I have early Tenergy LiFeO cells. 

Generally I'm a big supporter of Li-Ion over NiMh, but LSD chemistry is exciting and new nano technology may help even more... but standard AA Alkaline cells should not be forgotten as in many parts of the world they are the most cost effective and/or the only option.

This post is now seriously OT... and really 'memory' kills the C2H for me as well. ...but since they say they will upgrade the pills they can produce one without at some point... but NovaTac, BitZ, Fenix and Ra Lights already produce good EDC lights (and many others do as well) _(BitZ is so nice I put up with the 'memory')_.

So C2H has one thing to offer... upgradeability... nice.... but is it really important in EDC? I like buying new lights... and right now emitters already meet EDC requirements quite well... so how important is it... We're going to enjoy our time on CPF debating and watching the advancements in lights, that I'm sure of.


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## WadeF (Sep 24, 2008)

Got some exciting info from Alan at Dereelight about the C2H. 


Tested with RCR123, Smooth reflector:

100%-1A, [email protected] 4400 lux, 25 minutes
30%-350ma, [email protected] 1400 lux, 45 minutes
5%->50ma, [email protected] 620 lux, 138 minutes
1%->8ma, [email protected] 150 lux, 10 hours

I asked for some specs about the 4SD pill that comes with the C2H. I don't know if it will be 1A with a R123 or CR123, but I'll most likely run R123's. I don't have many single cell EDC lights that run a Cree Q5 at 1A, so it will be interesting to test total output, throw, etc, against other single cell lights, like the Fenix P2D, Nitecore EX-10 etc. In any event, this should be a nice little pocket rocket, we'll see how hot it gets.  

As for the low, not sure how many lumens 8mA translates into, but I believe Fenix drives their P2D at around 20-25mA on low. 

It will also be interesting to see run time tests with a primary CR123A.


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## orbital (Sep 26, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Got some exciting info from Alan at Dereelight about the C2H.
> 
> 
> Tested with RCR123, Smooth reflector:
> ...



+

Thanks Wade,..who's going to take a guess on Lumens with 8mA to a 5A Q2???






Dereelight has added the warm 5A Q2 to the C2H options,...so get em while there hot!

~ Also, Alan has started shipping the C2H


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## Spotpuff (Sep 26, 2008)

That is a beautiful light.


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## WadeF (Sep 26, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Thanks Wade,..who's going to take a guess on Lumens with 8mA to a 5A Q2???


 
3-5 lumens?


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## Fird (Sep 27, 2008)

hehehe, we are going to find out what this new little 4 speed can do! Just pulled the trigger on a Q2 5A version for my dad's birthday present. It's one of the few lights I considered for that because while it is a multimode, the UI is intuitively simple. If he'll let me play with it for a few minutes I might manage to pull of some beamshots 

Dangit, now I want one for myself :shakehead oh well, I guess I'll have to settle for a new Q2 5A module for my CL1H...


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## Fat Boy (Sep 27, 2008)

Sorry for the noob question. what is the difference between
C2H w/ 4SD Cree XR-E Q5
C2H w/ 4SD Cree XR-E 5A Q2 (is this a warmer light-yellow?)

Is there a difference in output?


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## Fird (Sep 27, 2008)

Yes the 5A Q2 LED is is a "warm white" version, binned to be much warmer than the Q5 bin that Dereelight is using. The reason one might buy this is for the "warm" color temp and better color rendition which to some eyes could be more of an advantage than the additional lumens provided by the Q5. So yes there will be a difference in output, the Q5 will put out more total light when driven to the same current.


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## Fat Boy (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks a lot! I just ordered this light.


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## WadeF (Sep 27, 2008)

Mine is on the way, got a tracking #.


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## kurni (Sep 28, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Mine is on the way, got a tracking #.



I hope to hear your comment about regulation.

My finger is gravitating towards PayPal.


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## Evil Twin (Sep 28, 2008)

kurni said:


> I hope to hear your comment about regulation.
> 
> My finger is gravitating towards PayPal.



Alan said that this light is fully regulated. I'm sure some CPFers will put this to the test though. However, I should point out that I have no reason to doubt anything that Alan says regarding his lights.


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## kurni (Sep 28, 2008)

Evil Twin said:


> Alan said that this light is fully regulated. I'm sure some CPFers will put this to the test though. However, I should point out that I have no reason to doubt anything that Alan says regarding his lights.



I would be more convinced if the usual "constant output" claim is written in C2H official specification. The "constant output" claim always exists in every single drop-in specification; why hasn't he put the such claim in C2H? I already have 3SD drop-in and it's sucking 17670 1.2A to push 1A according to my own test; I'm impressed but it sounds too good to be true for one RCR123.

I'm really itching to see if I finally find my 1A-LED-EDC holy grail. I know, I know, buy it and I'll find out, but I must be careful with my flashlight spending because I'm _married_


----------



## tophery (Sep 28, 2008)

Does anyone know how many lumens the Q2 and the Q5 put out with a CR123? Is there any significant difference between the brightnesses?


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## WadeF (Sep 28, 2008)

tophery said:


> Does anyone know how many lumens the Q2 and the Q5 put out with a CR123? Is there any significant difference between the brightnesses?


 
Without and integrating sphere it will be hard to know for sure. If the Q5 and Q2 each receive 1A of current on high, then we can assume the Q5 will be putting out 180-200 out the front lumens, and the Q2 maybe 160-180. Just a guess.


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## WadeF (Oct 2, 2008)

Got mine today! It's smaller than I expected. I went with the Q5 WC 4SD. It came with the OP reflector installed. It had a visible dark halo around the hot spot which is typical with many of these small reflector based lights and Cree's. I decided to swap it out for the smooth reflector since I want this to be a little pocket rocket. I didn't test the lux with the OP, but with a smooth I'm getting 4,600LUX (4,700LUX+ with a fresh off the charger R123) with an AW R123.

Some interesting things I noticed. If you want to use CR123A's you have to snip a little wire on the back of the 4SD pill. This disables the over discharge protection. I figure if you are using protected R123's and primary CR123A's this can be cut without any worry. Only those who want to use unprotected R123's may not want to disable it, but I assume you could fix it with a little soldering after it's cut. 

On high this light heats up quick. I kind of think of high as a burst mode. It's pushing 1A to the emitter which is a high level of current for such a small light. This is fine by me as I wouldn't use high for extended periods of time, but it sure is nice to have it available in such a small package. A Q5 at 1A should be getting at least 200 lumens out the front (200 torch lumens). The hot spot it produces is fairly large, yet very bright (4,600LUX). My SF E1B only measures around 3,000LUX on my LUX meter, although my E1B may not be as bright as some others out there. So my C2H beats my E1B handily when it comes to throw, and with a larger hot spot and MUCH brighter spill as well, and it's much smaller than my E1B. It's about the size of a Fenix P2D, but a tad longer. 

The lowest low isn't as low as my Nitecore EX10/D10, but it's fairly low. 

With the built in clip I can clip this light into the coin/watch pocket in my jeans (that little pocket inside the big pocket in most front right jeans pockets). It would easily clip to any pocket. 

I'll be working on some pictures and beam shots ASAP. 

Changing out the reflector takes a bit of unscrewing. Not as quick and easy as the CL1H, DBS, etc, but not difficult. 

I'm very pleased with the light overall. Very nice fit and finish, HA, etc. It's a true pocket rocket for those who want a lot of output in a small package, but keeping in mind it will heat up quickly and you'll want to keep your hand wrapped around it to help cool it if you use it for awhile on high.


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## kurni (Oct 2, 2008)

I've been waiting for your comment 

Any chance to test its regulation on high; I know it's hard as it heats up pretty quickly.

It seems that it's heatsinked OK to the body.

As soon as I hear it has FLAT regulation on high, even for only 20mins I'll get 1.


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## Ctrain (Oct 2, 2008)

Nice review Wade!

Interesting that it out throws your E1B
I cant wait for some beam shots!


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## WadeF (Oct 2, 2008)

kurni said:


> I've been waiting for your comment
> 
> Any chance to test its regulation on high; I know it's hard as it heats up pretty quickly.
> 
> ...


 
Maybe. Maybe I could put it in a glass of ice water, hehe. I usually don't do run time test as I don't want to risk any damage to my lights.  

I don't know if Self Built or any of the other run time experts will test a C2H. Hopefully they will and I appreciate their efforts to get us that data.


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## zip (Oct 2, 2008)

Got mine today also! 
All I can say is OUTSTANDING for a small light.

IMHO the UI is the best of all.:thumbsup:


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## kurni (Oct 2, 2008)

zip, your avatar is disturbing


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## kurni (Oct 2, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Maybe. Maybe I could put it in a glass of ice water, hehe. I usually don't do run time test as I don't want to risk any damage to my lights.
> 
> I don't know if Self Built or any of the other run time experts will test a C2H. Hopefully they will and I appreciate their efforts to get us that data.



I'm just curious if it can push constant (flat) brightness for 20mins on high. I don't really care about full runtime test  Actually even 15 mins I'll be happy because I am guessing current draw would be borderline unhealthy for RCR123; BTW, what is the current draw on high? _Assuming_ the output is 1A we can calculate the pill efficiency.

I hate [email protected] droopy style or P2D on 4.2V RCR123


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## Ctrain (Oct 2, 2008)

How does the throw compare to a Jetbeam IBS Pro?
Does anyone have one to compare?

Cheers


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 2, 2008)

mdocod said:


> I think you are confusing amp hours with watt hours:
> 
> For one thing, the P2D can't be compared to this DereeLight as the P2D can't use a 3.7V cell and still function correctly, you are stuck with a 3.0V cell on a P2D which puts a major damper available capacity within the RCR123 size cell.
> 
> ...




 *Great post!! :twothumbs
*


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## WadeF (Oct 2, 2008)

Here are some quick teaser pics before I get a full review together:

C2H MAX LEFT, Surefire E1B HIGH RIGHT:




Same as above, but under exposed:




Size comparision, left to right, NiteCore EX-10 GD+, Fenix P1D, Fenix P2D, Dereelight C2H, Surefire E1B, Nitecore D10:
http://picasaweb.google.com/wadefulpng/DereelightC2H#5252718570889594690


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## kurni (Oct 2, 2008)

The clip is not removable, is it?


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## orbital (Oct 2, 2008)

+

_Super photos!!_

Wade, you went with the Q5 WC tint, do you think that'll be better for an EDC?
Also, could you measure the width and height of the reflector for me, I'm still waiting on my C2H...

thanks

edit/add: good use of the fishin' swivels


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 2, 2008)

Excellent job wade! Thanks.


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## kurni (Oct 2, 2008)

Curious, where is the land of spiders?


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## Ctrain (Oct 2, 2008)

dammit!!!!
must get one... thats a heap wade:scowl:... let me try and explain this to the girlfriend. 
AND THE AUSSIE DOLLAR IS KILLIN ME!!!!!!!


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## WadeF (Oct 2, 2008)

orbital said:


> Wade, you went with the Q5 WC tint, do you think that'll be better for an EDC?
> Also, could you measure the width and height of the reflector for me, I'm still waiting on my C2H...


 
I may order the Q2 5A pill at some point as I really like that tint. Right now I like the punch the Q5 offers.  I'll try and get you those measurements, but it's pretty small and looks about the same as a P3D/P2D reflector:





That's the EX10 GDP, Fenix P2D, C2H, and the SF E1B. Notice my poor Fenix P2D Q5's silver backed Cree has turned dark yellow. It seems there were some bad silver backed Cree LEDs. I'm wondering if their was a problem with the termal bond which allowed the emitter to basically burn and discolor. It has lost output and has turned very yellow/warm. It will be going back for replacement one of these days.


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## Evil Twin (Oct 2, 2008)

Got mine today too! I have to say though, that when I got the package in the mail and saw the size of it I thought Alan had accidentally sent me a drop-in instead of my C2H.  This thing is tiny.

I don't believe that it has been mentioned yet, but it seems that this light will take any P60 pill. I was changing out the reflector and stuck the 4SD pill into my Surefire 6PD and it worked great! I'm thinking about trying out my DBS pill in this light. :devil:

I know this picture isn't as good as any of Wade's excellent photos, but here is a size comparison with some other common lights:






Left to right: 2C [email protected], M6, C2H, DBS V2, 6PD


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## WadeF (Oct 2, 2008)

Interesting. I didn't try other pills, but imagine a 3SD 1.2A pill.  Might be hard on the R123? I could try putting my Q2 5A CL1H pill in it, if it would work (which I have no idea since I haven't tried yet.)


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## Evil Twin (Oct 2, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Interesting. I didn't try other pills, but imagine a 3SD 1.2A pill.  Might be hard on the R123? I could try putting my Q2 5A CL1H pill in it, if it would work (which I have no idea since I haven't tried yet.)



Well, the RCR's I have are rated at 880mah, so pushing them to 1200mah should be a 1.36C discharge rate. Kinda rough on the batteries but should be impressive no less. 

The only thing with the other Dereelight pills is that they don't have the little notches that the 4SD pill has on the side (to screw it into the light), and you _might_ have to remove the spring.


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## Ctrain (Oct 2, 2008)

Evil Twin said:


> Got mine today too! I have to say though, that when I got the package in the mail and saw the size of it I thought Alan had accidentally sent me a drop-in instead of my C2H.  This thing is tiny.
> 
> I don't believe that it has been mentioned yet, but it seems that this light will take any P60 pill. I was changing out the reflector and stuck the 4SD pill into my Surefire 6PD and it worked great! I'm thinking about trying out my DBS pill in this light. :devil:
> 
> ...


 


Indeed wade's photos are first class... but this still made me drool!


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## cheetokhan (Oct 3, 2008)

I've already got 4 great single 123 cell lights: a Romisen RC-N3-Q5, Nitecore EX10GD, Jetbeam Jet II IBS, and EagleTac T10C.
Do I really need a C2H?


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## divine (Oct 3, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Interesting. I didn't try other pills, but imagine a 3SD 1.2A pill.  Might be hard on the R123? I could try putting my Q2 5A CL1H pill in it, if it would work (which I have no idea since I haven't tried yet.)


Back in the threads discussing the light before it was out, Alan mentioned that the Pills were too large for an EDC light. I don't think they will fit in the C2H.

But, check anyways, who knows!


cheetokhan said:


> I've already got 4 great single 123 cell lights: a Romisen RC-N3-Q5, Nitecore EX10GD, Jetbeam Jet II IBS, and EagleTac T10C.
> Do I really need a C2H?


Yes.


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## Fird (Oct 3, 2008)

well, the reflectors sure won't fit, but if the modules are the same size...... ::evil grin:: 4 mode CL1H for me, that would be SO SCHWEET!


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## DArklite (Oct 3, 2008)

I'll have to get one with the 5a Q2 to go along with my CL1H and DBS with those tints, since I already have an iTP C9 with a WC Q5.


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## torpeau (Oct 3, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Some interesting things I noticed. If you want to use CR123A's you have to snip a little wire on the back of the 4SD pill. This disables the over discharge protection. I figure if you are using protected R123's and primary CR123A's this can be cut without any worry. Only those who want to use unprotected R123's may not want to disable it, but I assume you could fix it with a little soldering after it's cut.



Mine arrived today, but to use CR123As, the directions say I need to remove the pill w/ forceps to get to that wire. Forceps? I really don't want to do damage. I wonder what happens if I don't break the wire. Maybe I should just order some RCR123s.


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## Evil Twin (Oct 3, 2008)

divine said:


> Back in the threads discussing the light before it was out, Alan mentioned that the Pills were too large for an EDC light. I don't think they will fit in the C2H.
> 
> But, check anyways, who knows!


 
Yes, that was the first thing I checked, because I remember Alan saying that the light would be too small for a P60 pill, but *it does fit*.  I even tried it in my 6P Defender and I had a 4 mode Surefire!

The only thing is that to get a different pill into the C2H you would have to screw the pill all the way through the body. This would require you to cut out some little notches on the side of the pill so your forceps will have something to grip onto.


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## WadeF (Oct 3, 2008)

torpeau said:


> Mine arrived today, but to use CR123As, the directions say I need to remove the pill w/ forceps to get to that wire. Forceps? I really don't want to do damage. I wonder what happens if I don't break the wire. Maybe I should just order some RCR123s.


 
Has anyone seen the wire on their pill? I didn't see it on mine, but maybe I wasn't looking in the right area. If you are using protected R123's and also want to use primaries, I would just cut the wire. The only reason to leave it would be if you are using unprotected R123's.


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## zip (Oct 3, 2008)

See how the CH2 stacks up.

Surefire EB1, Dereelight CH2 and Wolf-Eyes Angel C.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/208958


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## HKJ (Oct 3, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Has anyone seen the wire on their pill? I didn't see it on mine, but maybe I wasn't looking in the right area.



It is not a wire, but a short pcb trace. It goes from the outer ring trace to a small hole just beside the ring trace, it is maybe 1 mm long. Maybe your need a magnifying glass to see it.


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## WadeF (Oct 3, 2008)

I think I see it. I was thinking it was an actual short piece of wire. 

Using my handy dandy pocket magnifier I took a close up shot of what I think you are describing:


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## HKJ (Oct 3, 2008)

Exactly.

It is also described in the (single page) manual for the C2H.


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## WadeF (Oct 3, 2008)

HKJ said:


> Exactly.
> 
> It is also described in the (single page) manual for the C2H.


 
Looking at the manual again it makes more sense now. I think the word "wire" confused me.  

Has anyone tried breaking this connection on their C2H? I probably will since I only use protected R123's, or CR123's.


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## HKJ (Oct 3, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Looking at the manual again it makes more sense now. I think the word "wire" confused me.
> 
> Has anyone tried breaking this connection on their C2H? I probably will since I only use protected R123's, or CR123's.



When describing a pcb trace to people that does not know what a pcb is, they have to select another word to describe it, but I agree that wire can be a bit confusing.

I have not decided yet, I just put a AW protected RCR123 in it.


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## torpeau (Oct 3, 2008)

HKJ said:


> When describing a pcb trace to people that does not know what a pcb is, they have to select another word to describe it, but I agree that wire can be a bit confusing.
> 
> I have not decided yet, I just put a AW protected RCR123 in it.



More like VERY confusing. And it doesn't look like forceps are required to get it done.


The directions indicate that the "wire" needs to be broken to use protected RCR123s, so how does the AW work for you?


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## HKJ (Oct 3, 2008)

torpeau said:


> The directions indicate that the "wire" needs to be broken to use protected RCR123s, so how does the AW work for you?



The wire need not be broken for protected cells, but it will have no ill effects to break it. On unprotected cells your might discharge them to far.


The AW works very well.


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## torpeau (Oct 3, 2008)

HKJ said:


> The wire need not be broken for protected cells, but it will have no ill effects to break it. On unprotected cells your might discharge them to far.
> 
> 
> The AW works very well.



Are there advantages to using an unprotected RCR123 in this light? 

Thanks for the info that the AW works without having to modify.


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## HKJ (Oct 3, 2008)

torpeau said:


> Are there advantages to using an unprotected RCR123 in this light?



One "advantage" is that a low battery will only disable high, not the other levels. A protected cell will turn the light completely off.

A unprotected cell might also be a bit larger, because it does not need space for the protection pcb, this might give the battery a larger capacity. I have not compared the real capacity of protected an unprotected cells, so I do not know if this is the case.


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## orbital (Oct 3, 2008)

+

Well mine arrived today and the first thing I noticed is the absolutely perfect anodize. The deep rich grey HAIII is the best Deree has put out. IMO

It may seem like I'm always praising Dereelight and brand loyal ect... this is the furthest from the truth.
I support a product if its good, and if its not,.. see ya.

Back to the C2H, I ordered mine with the warm Q2 (my first 5A Q2) and I'm glad I went with it. The centered emitter seems right at home in the OP reflector installed, with a good balance of spill & throw.

One thing I did change is to add a GID cap with a slightly longer center button.
This is to make the cap stick out more & make mode change and click On a bit easier.
(the little retaining ring for the GID cap is a thing of beauty)
With this new cap in place, it leans a bit while On & tailstanding.....no problem.

My flashlight collection is modest, (maybe excessive to some, got 14 or 15) anyway,
this may be going out on a limb, but regardless of size, output, throw ect.... the C2H may very well be my best light yet....including my other Dereelights.


*edit: Regarding the 4SD,
I see no modulation in beam (including Low), this tested with a fan.*


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## SYKO (Oct 6, 2008)

Any idea on lumens/runtime?
Trying to choose between this and fenix P3D.
I realize they are not the same(1x123 vs 2x123)
Want high output but seem to favor the C2H sizewise and stylewise, even though I would like the strobe mode for some reason.


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## WadeF (Oct 6, 2008)

Without someone putting it in an I.S. we can't know for sure. Dereelight claims to deliver 1A to the emitter on high, so that should be good for around 200 lumens out the front. I need to take some light box readings and compare it to some of my other lights. 

I would expect the out the front lumens to be slightly higher than a P3D, but obviously the run time wil be much less than a P3D. Heat is also an issue, it will warm up fast, so I would recommend keeping this light in hand if you are running it on high for any length of time. With the smooth reflector installed it throws very well for such a small light, thanks to the high output. 

No strobe mode unless Dereelight releases a pill with strobe in the future, but they haven't offered strobe/sos for some time now.


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## Fird (Oct 6, 2008)

WadeF said:


> No strobe mode unless Dereelight releases a pill with strobe in the future, but they haven't offered strobe/sos for some time now.



heh, thank God.. I'd buy a fenix if i wanted a bunch of extra toy modes


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## djj (Oct 7, 2008)

WadeF said:


> 100%-1A, [email protected] 4400 lux, 25 minutes
> 30%-350ma, [email protected] 1400 lux, 45 minutes
> 5%->50ma, [email protected] 620 lux, 138 minutes
> 1%->8ma, [email protected] 150 lux, 10 hours



Thanks for passing along the numbers, WadeF (and for providing your own comments, beamshots, etc.). They helped me decide to order one of these little beauties.

But is it just me, or do the numbers seem strange? Shouldn't [output multiplied by runtime] increase as the current decreases?

Using lux as a proxy for total output: 
4400 x 25 = 110000 (why so high?)
1400 x 45 = 63000
620 x 138 = 85560
150 x 10 x 60 = 90000 
The last three seem to form the pattern one would expect, right? Efficiency should increase at lower currents.

Also, why isn't [lux over current] more consistent?
4400 / 1000 = 4.4
1400 / 350 = 4
620 / 50 = 12.4
150 / 8 = 18.75

Just wondering what the light can really do...

Anway, I've had my C2H for a couple of days now. Overall I would say it's a great little light, even with the op reflector it has good throw. I have the 5A Q2 pill, and I'm quite happy with the tint. It has displaced my P3D RB100 as the "best tint" led in my collection. I don't think it's going to replace the Ra Twisty on my keychain, but I've been carrying it clipped in my back pocket.


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## SYKO (Oct 7, 2008)

looking at that, 25 min runtime on high would be 50 minutes with 2 x 123. The fenix P3D does 1.8 on high. seems the fenix beats it , or am i missing something.

The size is nice , but the runtime seems very low...


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## WadeF (Oct 7, 2008)

SYKO said:


> looking at that, 25 min runtime on high would be 50 minutes with 2 x 123. The fenix P3D does 1.8 on high. seems the fenix beats it , or am i missing something.
> 
> The size is nice , but the runtime seems very low...


 
I'm not sure the P3D delivers 1A to the emitter. I think it's close, but a bit less.


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## Fat Boy (Oct 8, 2008)

Just got mine and I love the size, smaller than I thought it would be. I have purchased both the DBS and C2H and am really impressed by the quality of these lights.

The instructions on cutting the wire were good enough BUT they should have had a better picture of what you need to look for. I just used a razor and made a little slit and it works perfect for my needs. I am going to order another for the wife.


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## Fat Boy (Oct 8, 2008)

duplicate


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## WadeF (Oct 8, 2008)

I got a chance to use my C2H around my parent's back yard the other night. I love the large and bright hot spot it produces. The hot spot is similar in size to the SF E1B's hot spot, but in my case the C2H is a bit brighter than the hot spot my E1B produces, plus the C2H has plenty of bright spill that my E1B lacks.


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## WadeF (Oct 9, 2008)

I guess I'll post this hear since it involves the C2H. I had a little lumen dual last night. I went out for some wings and beer with my friends the other night, friends I don't get to see enough of these days. On the way out to our vehicles it was dark out and in a dark area. I couldn't help pulling out the C2H and blasting it around. My friend though it was pretty bright and then he remember he had a flashlight in his truck. He pulled out one of those with a bunch of 5mm LED's in it, like 12-20. He shined it on the ground and said "It's about the same brightness" and when I heard that I almost wanted to say "WHAT?!" but instead I quickly got the C2H and fired it up while he still had his sickly ghost like beam on the ground. The C2H just blew it away and then he realized how bright my little flashlight, much smaller than his, was. Then he said something like "I have more led's too!" and asked how many it had and I said "One". hehe.


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## Fird (Oct 9, 2008)

hehe, i love doing that with someone who hasn't seen my light yet, except I don't give away what it can really do.. just set it to first gear (or perhaps second gear, the 5% level in the C2H) and show them how well it does compared to their little 20LED light.. after they say "that's pretty bright for one LED" or something to that effect.. that's when you give them full bore :-D


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## orbital (Oct 10, 2008)

+

I'v had a week with the C2H and been very impressed,
the build quality and general feel to the light is superb.

At first the 5A Q2 took some getting used to,
but your eyes adapt, now when I use a light with WC tint, it seems very blue to me.
I guess I'm sold on the warmer tint!!!

I use R123s & after cutting the tiny solder (protection) trace, the High lasted quite a bit longer.





The Low & Med. are very useful levels, but its nice to have the_ big blast_ as needed.

Did a little mod with an 8 degree optic, I simply prefer the pattern, nothing against Alans reflectors.

Overall, really a super EDC!!


----------



## Fird (Oct 12, 2008)

grr, people have already successfully modded their lights and i'm waiting on the postal service :shakehead

Looks neat! :thumbsup:


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## WadeF (Oct 12, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> I'v had a week with the C2H and been very impressed,
> the build quality and general feel to the light is superb.


 
Have any beam shots with the optic? Does it increase the throw?


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## Fat Boy (Oct 12, 2008)

I just got back from a trip to the north shore, MN. I used my c2h a bit and noticed an issue. When I have it on the lowest setting it sometimes flickers or flickers and jumps up to the highest setting by itself. This happen several times over the last couple of days, has anyone else had this issue?


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## kurni (Oct 12, 2008)

Fat Boy said:


> I just got back from a trip to the north shore, MN. I used my c2h a bit and noticed an issue. When I have it on the lowest setting it sometimes flickers or flickers and jumps up to the highest setting by itself. This happen several times over the last couple of days, has anyone else had this issue?



Perhaps the contacts? I wonder if cleaning the threads, pills and other contact points might solve the issue.


----------



## orbital (Oct 12, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Have any beam shots with the optic? Does it increase the throw?



+

My beamshots are usually so-so.

Yes, the optic increases throw a good 15~20% over the OP, maybe more...
optics give you the best of both worlds, with good throw and usable spill.

This gives you an idea of hotspot.






https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/207441


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## Fat Boy (Oct 12, 2008)

> Perhaps the contacts? I wonder if cleaning the threads, pills and other contact points might solve the issue.


Thanks I will look at this but it is a new light, just one week old and I have only put in one battery, so it not really dirty or used much.

I've been testing it a little and it pretty much consistantly flickers and jumps to to the highest setting from the lowest within about 15 seconds. This has not happened as of yet in any of the other settings.


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## Axion (Oct 12, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> My beamshots are usually so-so.
> 
> ...



I'm intrigued, where did you get the optic?


----------



## Fat Boy (Oct 12, 2008)

Fat Boy said:


> Thanks I will look at this but it is a new light, just one week old and I have only put in one battery, so it not really dirty or used much.
> 
> I've been testing it a little and it pretty much consistantly flickers and jumps to to the highest setting from the lowest within about 15 seconds. This has not happened as of yet in any of the other settings.


 I changed out the battery and it seems to be fine, maybe dirt or the battery itself????:thinking:


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## WadeF (Oct 12, 2008)

Fat Boy said:


> I changed out the battery and it seems to be fine, maybe dirt or the battery itself????:thinking:


 
What type/brand of battery were you using when you had the problems?


----------



## Ctrain (Oct 12, 2008)

Mine arrived today at work! 
I can only compare it to my EX10 at the moment as thats my EDC.
Yet another great light from Alan, The ramping down takes a bit to get used to but hey, suits me fine.

I can wait to install the SMO reflector to see how it throws! 

My first impressions are that the build quility seems first rate.. the beam is near perfect (OP) and its not that much bigger than my EX10

Thanks again Alan!


----------



## FlashCrazy (Oct 12, 2008)

Fat Boy said:


> I changed out the battery and it seems to be fine, maybe dirt or the battery itself????:thinking:


 
Sounds like an intermittent contact issue causing the light to think the user is trying to switch modes. It could've been something on the contacts or the battery itself. Are you using primaries or rechargeables? Just for grins, I would clean the contacts of the light (and the battery contacts) with a cotton swab and rubbing alcohol. Sometimes the least bit of grime, or some invisible film of who knows what, can cause issues.


----------



## SYKO (Oct 12, 2008)

Axion said:


> I'm intrigued, where did you get the optic?



it looks like the one in my river rock 3AA headlight.


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## Stefans (Oct 13, 2008)

Couldn't help myself, ordered one today with R2 uppgrade ;-)
It will be my first Deerelight, but I've heard so much good about them

I'm hoping it will perform like my P3D Q5 but almost be as small as my very useful P2D ;-)

Oh these waiting times......


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## orbital (Oct 13, 2008)

+

*Good news!!*

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=184794


p.s. Axion, I can PM you the details of the mod. it takes a bit of customizing to make it work....not difficult though.


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## Fird (Oct 13, 2008)

Stefans said:


> with R2 upgrade...



aww man, now look what i did.. i missed the R2 "blowtorch bin" by a couple weeks


----------



## Fat Boy (Oct 13, 2008)

> Sounds like an intermittent contact issue causing the light to think the user is trying to switch modes. It could've been something on the contacts or the battery itself. Are you using primaries or rechargeables? Just for grins, I would clean the contacts of the light (and the battery contacts) with a cotton swab and rubbing alcohol. Sometimes the least bit of grime, or some invisible film of who knows what, can cause issues.


Thanks again for the help and I am using primaries. It has not repeated the problem since the battery change.



> What type/brand of battery were you using when you had the problems?


 I am using Duracell Ultra 123


----------



## Brewdog2001 (Oct 13, 2008)

Can't wait to get mine........sounds like another great light, not that I am brand loyal or anything....lol


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## RichS (Oct 13, 2008)

Brewdog2001 said:


> Can't wait to get mine........sounds like another great light, not that I am brand loyal or anything....lol


Well in my experience one thing is for sure - you can't go wrong with a Dereelight!

:welcome:


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## WadeF (Oct 13, 2008)

Fird said:


> aww man, now look what i did.. i missed the R2 "blowtorch bin" by a couple weeks


 
Don't worry, between a Q5 WC and R2 WC there won't be any noticable difference, except on maybe a lux meter. 

The new Q3 5A sounds neat however, but again if you already have a Q2 5A there isn't going to be any noticeable difference.


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## Fird (Oct 14, 2008)

true, except I'm running a Q4 now at 1.0A, and I figured I would actually notice the difference jumping to an R2 at 1.2A.. ahh well, perhaps I wait for the R4 or until I have spare cash again (Z bin? lol)


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## WadeF (Oct 14, 2008)

Fird said:


> true, except I'm running a Q4 now at 1.0A, and I figured I would actually notice the difference jumping to an R2 at 1.2A.. ahh well, perhaps I wait for the R4 or until I have spare cash again (Z bin? lol)


 
You would notice a difference from a Q4 at 1A to R2 at 1.2A.


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## Fat Boy (Oct 14, 2008)

Could someone explain the R2 upgrade and what it means for the C2H and or the DBS? I don't see anything on the Dereelight website. Thanks


----------



## HKJ (Oct 14, 2008)

Fat Boy said:


> Could someone explain the R2 upgrade and what it means for the C2H and or the DBS? I don't see anything on the Dereelight website. Thanks



Your can get a pill with 7% (Q5->R2) more light output (for $6 extra). Your can measure this increase, but it will be very difficult to see.


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## Brewdog2001 (Oct 17, 2008)

Just got my C2H and it is great. My good buddy Rich helped me with the minor surgery needed to cut the trace to run CR123s in it, and this thing is beautiful. I can honestly say I don't mind that fact that the 5A Q2 isn't as powerful as the Q5 WC. The color of the beam is great, and is as close as I have seen an LED beam come to matching the color of an incandescent. Gotta give Alan the "good ole' two thumbs up for this one"



:twothumbs


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## FlashCrazy (Oct 17, 2008)

Brewdog2001 said:


> Just got my C2H and it is great. My good buddy Rich helped me with the minor surgery needed to cut the trace to run CR123s in it, and this thing is beautiful. I can honestly say I don't mind that fact that the 5A Q2 isn't as powerful as the Q5 WC. The color of the beam is great, and is as close as I have seen an LED beam come to matching the color of an incandescent. Gotta give Alan the "good ole' two thumbs up for this one.
> 
> :twothumbs


 
I agree. I think this tint will become quite popular as more people see it for themselves. :candle:


----------



## RichS (Oct 17, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> I agree. I think this tint will become quite popular as more people see it for themselves. :candle:


Completely agree - Fortunately Brewdog let me check out the new C2H Q2 5A, and I was blown away by the quality of the light it produced. Everything outside just "popped" like it does with a quality incan. Great beam pattern too, with a good sized hotspot that blended in nicely with the spill, especially for a Cree. I just got a new CL1H today with the Q2 5A pill and love it.

One thing though - the C2H got very close to what I would classify as hot in a very short time when running this Q2 on high. I know that it isn't as efficient as the Q5, so it turns a little more of the energy into heat rather than light, but I've not felt a light get this hot this fast while holding it. I know part of it is the superb heat sinking - the pill threads into the light very tightly (very nice), so this is probably why the heat transfers to the body very quickly.

We were both a little surprised by the heat though. Has anyone else experienced this with their Q2 C2H? It may be normal, but it got hotter than I'm used to, and I'd say it did so in less than 3 minutes while being held.

Awesome light though. I have one on the way - R2 version. Hopefully it will run a tad cooler, although it won't have this much more useful tint.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 17, 2008)

I mentioned time and time again that the C2H will heat up quickly on high. This is simply because it's a very small light and the high mode is driving the LED at 1A. This will warm up a larger light fairly quick, so it's obvious the little C2H will heat up even faster. I consider it a kind of burst mode. As long as you keep your hand around the light you should be able to run it on high for awhile, but I haven't done any tests. If I need to run the light for a longer period of time I would just use a lower mode. 

If people complain about the heat the only option is to send less current to the emitter, making the light less bright. I'll take more heat if it means more lumens.  (as long as I am careful to not allow the light to get too hot)


----------



## RichS (Oct 17, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I mentioned time and time again that the C2H will heat up quickly on high. This is simply because it's a very small light and the high mode is driving the LED at 1A. This will warm up a larger light fairly quick, so it's obvious the little C2H will heat up even faster. I consider it a kind of burst mode. As long as you keep your hand around the light you should be able to run it on high for awhile, but I haven't done any tests. If I need to run the light for a longer period of time I would just use a lower mode.
> 
> If people complain about the heat the only option is to send less current to the emitter, making the light less bright. I'll take more heat if it means more lumens.  (as long as I am careful to not allow the light to get too hot)


I understand what you are saying Wade, but this one heats up much faster and hotter than any other typical light of it's size that I have seen. I think it is due to the Q2 5A emitter and great heat sinking of this light. For example, I have the new Fenix PD20, and on turbo mode it doesn't even come close to getting as hot as the C2H in the same timeframe, and it is brighter than the C2H as well. I attribute much of this to the Q5 emitter in the PD20 which is more efficient, and the rest of it I attribute to the emitter heat sink in the C2H being screwed into the head of the light causing the heat to instantly wick into the head and body of the light.

This is not to say I don't like the C2H because of this - I have one on the way. I just thought it was noteworthy, and may be a factor in the decision for the Q5 or R2 over the Q2, at least in this small of a light. The Q2 5A is an absolutely awesome LED, but the CL1H handles the heat much better from my experience. I used my CL1H on high for quite a while tonight and barely noticed it getting warm.

I am very interested to see how my R2 C2H heats up in comparison to the Q2 version when it arrives. My guess is it will still get warm, just not as warm (hot) as with the Q2.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 17, 2008)

Does the PD20 send 1A to the emitter? I'm not sure what they are sending, but the P2D's were somewhere around 700mA-800mA I believe. The 1A of current, plus good heat sinking, is the main reason you feel it heat up so fast. The Q2 may heat up ever faster than the Q5 version, but my Q5 version heats up faster than my other lights due to the 1A of current to the emitter.


----------



## FlashCrazy (Oct 18, 2008)

RichS said:


> I am very interested to see how my R2 C2H heats up in comparison to the Q2 version when it arrives. My guess is it will still get warm, just not as warm (hot) as with the Q2.


 
I have an R2 and 5A Q3 version.. I'll test them side by side tomorrow and get temp readings. I really do like the Q3's tint...I use it much more than the R2, even though the R2 is brighter. BUT, it's still hard to resist the throw of the R2 in this little light! Beat's up on my Fenix P3D Q5. :nana:


----------



## RichS (Oct 18, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> I have an R2 and 5A Q3 version.. I'll test them side by side tomorrow and get temp readings. I really do like the Q3's tint...I use it much more than the R2, even though the R2 is brighter. BUT, it's still hard to resist the throw of the R2 in this little light! Beat's up on my Fenix P3D Q5. :nana:


Excellent, I look forward to what you find out! I'd also be curious as to whether or not the Q3 runs any cooler than the Q2. I didn't see the C2H 5A Q3 pills available for purchase on your MP thread. Do you sell just the 5A Q3 pills for the C2H? If it ran even a little cooler, I would go ahead and get one for my C2H since the tint is just fantastic.


----------



## RichS (Oct 18, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Does the PD20 send 1A to the emitter? I'm not sure what they are sending, but the P2D's were somewhere around 700mA-800mA I believe. The 1A of current, plus good heat sinking, is the main reason you feel it heat up so fast. The Q2 may heat up ever faster than the Q5 version, but my Q5 version heats up faster than my other lights due to the 1A of current to the emitter.


Good question Wade, but you're right - it's probably not sending 1A to the emitter. I do know that at least compared to the Q2 it's got quite a bit more output though, so it's pushing it pretty hard. I wouldn't be suprised if the advertised 180 lumens isn't close to accurate. The real test will be to see how the PD 20 holds up to the C2H R2 version.


----------



## FlashCrazy (Oct 18, 2008)

RichS said:


> Excellent, I look forward to what you find out! I'd also be curious as to whether or not the Q3 runs any cooler than the Q2. I didn't see the C2H 5A Q3 pills available for purchase on your MP thread. Do you sell just the 5A Q3 pills for the C2H? If it ran even a little cooler, I would go ahead and get one for my C2H since the tint is just fantastic.


 
I only have the complete C2H lights, no repalcement pills for them yet. Dereelight won't have the ramping up version replacement pills available for about two weeks, I'm not sure about the other versions... I'll have to check. 

Sorry, I don't have a Q2 version to test...only the Q3 and R2 versions.


----------



## FlashCrazy (Oct 18, 2008)

Well, I was able to do a comparison of the R2 and 5A Q3, but not for long at all. One of my RCR123's is hitting low voltage cutoff too soon, and I don't have any other charged ones here. So, I was only able to get readings up to the 2 min. mark. Hopefully I'll more time this weekend to perform a longer test.

Temps are in degrees F

....................R2........ 5A Q3
Start:.......... 80.5.........80.5
1 minute:..... 95.0.........92.5
2 minutes:... 101.8........98.3


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## RichS (Oct 18, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> Well, I was able to do a comparison of the R2 and 5A Q3, but not for long at all. One of my RCR123's is hitting low voltage cutoff too soon, and I don't have any other charged ones here. So, I was only able to get readings up to the 2 min. mark. Hopefully I'll more time this weekend to perform a longer test.
> 
> Temps are in degrees F
> 
> ...


Wow - completely the opposite of what I expected. Someone explained that the more later bins were more efficient, meaning that they turned more of the current into light instead of heat. With both emitters being pushed at 1.0A, I would have thought that the Q3 would be warmer. Go figure!

Thanks for taking the time to put this to the test FlashCrazy!


----------



## Illumination (Oct 18, 2008)

I wonder how much of this is due to the natural variation of the leds, batteries, electronics, etc?

Interesting, nevertheless.


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## FlashCrazy (Oct 18, 2008)

Illumination said:


> I wonder how much of this is due to the natural variation of the leds, batteries, electronics, etc?
> 
> Interesting, nevertheless.


 
RichS, your welcome! 

Yes Illumination, all of that probably has a lot to do with it. More testing will be needed to get a conclusive result.


----------



## orbital (Oct 18, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> RichS, your welcome!
> 
> Yes Illumination, all of that probably has a lot to do with it. More testing will be needed to get a conclusive result.



+

Have temperature tests been done before on different bins driven the same?
**Makes me wonder if its simply a Vf difference.

Good stuff!


----------



## Illumination (Oct 18, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Have temperature tests been done before on different bins driven the same?
> **Makes me wonder if its simply a Vf difference.
> ...



Agreed, that is probably the source of the greatest variation.


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## WadeF (Oct 19, 2008)

Illumination said:


> Agreed, that is probably the source of the greatest variation.


 
Probably a Vf difference. Some R2's have a high Vf, where the Q2, Q3 may have a lower Vf.

The heat isn't coming from the bin, it's coming from the Cree being driven at 1A in a very small light! 

Imagine how hot the thing would get if it was being driven at 1.2A, 1.4A?


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## Fird (Oct 19, 2008)

hmm, what about a thermally regulated high mode (used like the fenix "turbo" mode, except that if you leave it on too long it just steps down).. drive that sucker to 1.4-1.6A or whatever it can handle short-term, but as it gets hot, ramp it down a bit.. leave the other modes as fixed current.

dunno, probably more useful in the CL1H size light than in an EDC because it'd only last a few seconds in an EDC size light.


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## WadeF (Oct 20, 2008)

I already have thermal regulation, it's called my hand.  When it feels too hot, I can turn it off, or drop the level. I think if the LED was in danger, I wouldn't be able to hold the light comfortably. 

Thermal regulation is annoying. It may trip prematurely, or drop when you really need that output, even if it's going to burn up the LED. The great thing about the C2H, if someone did burn it up, you just order a new pill and drop it in. 

Since we have yet to hear of anyone burning one up, I don't think it's a big deal.


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## Fird (Oct 20, 2008)

lol, good point .

::still anxiously awaiting the arrival of his C2H::


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## orbital (Oct 20, 2008)

Fird said:


> lol, good point .
> 
> ::still anxiously awaiting the arrival of his C2H::



+

Fird,
it's worth the wait!, and no, I'm not just saying that,...

When you hold it in your hand, it really feels like _quality_.
It has just the right amount of grip, you'll see what I mean.


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## Stefans (Oct 21, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Without someone putting it in an I.S. we can't know for sure. Dereelight claims to deliver 1A to the emitter on high, so that should be good for around 200 lumens out the front. I need to take some light box readings and compare it to some of my other lights.
> 
> I would expect the out the front lumens to be slightly higher than a P3D, but obviously the run time wil be much less than a P3D.


Got my CH2 with R2 upgrade today and its a very nice light, but to me it seems like more of an enthusiast light because of this cutting the "wire" thing. It wasnt very easy, you need good tools and seriously a magnifying glass too(its' so tiny).
Comparing it with the P3D was a bit dissapointing, because the P3D Q5 wins both in throw and in lumens (both flashlights with smooth reflectors and running on CR123:s) according to my eye in practical tests outside anyway.
I would say throw is close, but overall lumens differs more....seems something like 170 Lumens for C2H and 215 Lumens for P3D.
There is a clear advantage in lumens for P3D on a ceiling bounce test and also outside in real life application, which suprised me after what I've heard here.
Tomorrow I will have to doublecheck this wirecutting thing, maybe I haven't cut straight through it (I need a magnifying glass to see clearly or my multimeter to measure it). Maybe my eyes fooled me, but I thought it wouldnt work if it wasn't cut :shrug:

And yes it sure does heat up quicker than the P3D Q5, but that could be a good thing (a sign of better heat dispersion)
That much lower output and still heats up a lot quicker sounds a bit strange though......I thought the R2 was suppose to be more efficient.


----------



## WadeF (Oct 21, 2008)

Try an AW R123 in the C2H. Not sure how much difference there is in output between a R123 and CR123. I was under the impression it should be the same, but I haven't tested it. The C2H should have as much output, or more, than a P3D. It's possible your R2 has a high Vf and the CR123 can't deliver the voltage it needs.


----------



## Stefans (Oct 21, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Try an AW R123 in the C2H. Not sure how much difference there is in output between a R123 and CR123. I was under the impression it should be the same, but I haven't tested it. The C2H should have as much output, or more, than a P3D. It's possible your R2 has a high Vf and the CR123 can't deliver the voltage it needs.


I dont have any R123, only run CR123:s at the moment.
I was also under the impression that it wouldnt matter.
Maybe someone else can compare battery types??


----------



## FlashCrazy (Oct 21, 2008)

I did a little more heat testing. After 7 minutes, the R2 was 119.5 deg. F, the 5A Q3 was 122.5 F. Not really much difference in practical terms. More than likely Vf differences, etc. as mentioned before. And what WadeF said sums it up... it's a small light driving the emitter at ~1000 mA, of course it's going to get hot. 

I compared CR123 and RCR123 batteries also:

CL1H R2, smooth reflector: 
CR123:.........3050 lux
RCR123:........4100 lux 

My P3D CE Premium Q5, 2 x Cr123's, OP reflector (sorry, I don't have the smooth): 2600 lux

The P3D does seem a bit brighter on the ceiling bounce test. But then again, the C2H is just a single battery light.


----------



## Stefans (Oct 22, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> I did a little more heat testing. After 7 minutes, the R2 was 119.5 deg. F, the 5A Q3 was 122.5 F. Not really much difference in practical terms. More than likely Vf differences, etc. as mentioned before. And what WadeF said sums it up... it's a small light driving the emitter at ~1000 mA, of course it's going to get hot.
> 
> I compared CR123 and RCR123 batteries also:
> 
> ...


Well, that certanly seems to explains what I'm seeing then.....it's more then 30% brighter on RCR!? (and still not as bright as PD3 Q5 in a ceiling bunce test)
Maybe it should be stated for future buyers that it CAN run on CR123, but loses a whopping 34% of the lumens!:thinking:
I was planning to run on only primarys (all my flashlights were selected for that, Tiablo A9, Fenix P3D, UKE 2L and this one), but it seems now I have to buy a charger and some AW RCR123:s.

Thank you guys for your quick respons :thumbsup:
/Stefan


----------



## Axion (Oct 22, 2008)

It's not exactly uncommon for a light to lose some output on primaries. The Nitecore Extreme is rated at 190 on primaries and 200 on RCR's and it's not driven as hard as the C2H. 

FlashCrazy, how do your lumen ratings tend to compare with those of light-reviews.com? My C2H seems to out throw my Extreme by a good margin, check out the palm tree pics in my C2H review, and the light-reviews.com has the Extreme putting out close to 5000 lux at one meter.


----------



## FlashCrazy (Oct 22, 2008)

Axion said:


> It's not exactly uncommon for a light to lose some output on primaries. The Nitecore Extreme is rated at 190 on primaries and 200 on RCR's and it's not driven as hard as the C2H.
> 
> FlashCrazy, how do your lumen ratings tend to compare with those of light-reviews.com? My C2H seems to out throw my Extreme by a good margin, check out the palm tree pics in my C2H review, and the light-reviews.com has the Extreme putting out close to 5000 lux at one meter.


 
I've suspected my meter reads on the low side, and looking at the numbers on light-reviews, apparently it reads really low... or his reads high. :shrug: For example, The DBS 3SD R2 I have tests at 21000 lux... the one on light-reviews (and a lower binned Q5) tested ~29,000. He's showing the Fenix P3D CE Q5 on turbo at ~3700-3900 lux, mine shows ~2600 lux on my meter. Just about all meters will read differently, so they're the most useful comparing only your own lights to each other... that's what I use mine for.


----------



## FlashCrazy (Oct 22, 2008)

Stefans said:


> Well, that certanly seems to explains what I'm seeing then.....it's more then 30% brighter on RCR!? (and still not as bright as PD3 Q5 in a ceiling bunce test)
> Maybe it should be stated for future buyers that it CAN run on CR123, but loses a whopping 34% of the lumens!:thinking:
> I was planning to run on only primarys (all my flashlights were selected for that, Tiablo A9, Fenix PD3 and this one), but it seems now I have to buy a charger and some AW RCR123:s.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, it does seem a bit odd. I'll have to test a few more to see how different they are with primaries vs. rechargeables.


----------



## Watchguy (Oct 23, 2008)

Darn, guess I waited too long to order a C2H. Sold out is the story of my life.:mecry:


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## WadeF (Oct 23, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> I've suspected my meter reads on the low side, and looking at the numbers on light-reviews, apparently it reads really low... or his reads high. :shrug:


 
You got it. I have two lux meters. One was from DX and it reads really low. My other one is more in line with light-reviews, but I think his may read a bit higher than mine.


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## Stefans (Oct 23, 2008)

Axion said:


> It's not exactly uncommon for a light to lose some output on primaries. The Nitecore Extreme is rated at 190 on primaries and 200 on RCR's and it's not driven as hard as the C2H.


Sure, a 5% or even 10% difference isn't much to talk about....but 34%!?Thats like 160 lumens instead of 215 :thumbsdow

I have played around with this light a couple of days now and I have to say that build quality seems excellent!
I really like the way the reflector and pill is screwed into the body, and that seems to transport the heat very effectively away from the pill.
I think Deerelights uppgrade ability is an excellent idea and I like that the light is delivered with both smooth and OP reflector.
By the way I have the RU (ramp up) version and thats another thing that Deerelight seems to be really good at, listening to the customers wishes:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Userfriendliness could be improved a bit by including a simple tool for unscrewing the pill with the package (that shouldn't cost much, or?)
I also think Deerelight should consider delivering the light ready for use with protective RCR:s (and with CR123:s as backup), and then people have an option to solder the "Wire" or "bridge" for use with unprotective cells.
(Or is it still more common to use unprotective cells??)

My recomendation is that If your plan to run the flashlight on CR123:s then maybe you should look at Fenix P2D Q5 instead (it's smaller in your pocket and has greater output).
If your plan is to run on RCR123:s then sure....go for it 


Anyway, I've now made an order for a charger and some AW RCR123:s.
I simply have to find out what this little sucker can really do :naughty:


----------



## Stefans (Oct 30, 2008)

Ok, quick update here.
Recieved my AW RCR123:s today and.....YES, now we're talking.
It's a huge improvement compared to running the C2H on CR123:s.
It's seems like changing from my P2D CE to the P3D Q5.

A quick ceiling bounce test now puts the C2H on par with the P3D Q5 (wasn't even close with CR123) and the C2H probably out throws the P3D Q5 now.
Pocket rocket....sure!

2 remarks after a weeks use:
*I find the 4 modes anoying, especially the 2 medium modes which are to close to each other......3 modes would have been perfekt.
*The clip, I keep wishing it was turned the other way so I could attach it to my cap while Im working with both hands (or a double clip like Eagletac P10C has).


----------



## Dukester (Oct 31, 2008)

Stefans said:


> Ok, quick update here.
> Recieved my AW RCR123:s today and.....YES, now we're talking.
> It's a huge improvement compared to running the C2H on CR123:s.
> It's seems like changing from my P2D CE to the P3D Q5.
> ...




How are the heat issues? How long can the torch be held before it gets uncomfortable? I know it will be subjective but if you can get me an idea I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Dave


----------



## FlashCrazy (Oct 31, 2008)

Dukesters said:


> How are the heat issues? How long can the torch be held before it gets uncomfortable? I know it will be subjective but if you can get me an idea I would appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dave


 
I know I pm'ed this to you earlier, but I figured I'd post it here as well for others. 

Although I haven't tried it yet, you should be able to hold it continously in your hand without it getting too hot to hold. Your body will act like a natural radiator to keep the temps down quite a bit. If you leave it sitting on a table for 10 minutes, however, it will be too hot to hold then.


----------



## WadeF (Nov 2, 2008)

Took some fun pics of my C2H, anyone else got pics of their C2H?


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## Patsplace (Nov 2, 2008)

As I carry the CL1H as an EDC, I'm looking forward to side by side comparison of the two as that will give me something concrete to compare it to.

By the sounds of it and by the looks of it (not to mention, it's a Dereelight and therefore good) I'll be putting out some case for this guy as another neat light...one that MAY replace the CL1H as my Co-EDC. I share the duties with my EO1.

Pat


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## WadeF (Nov 2, 2008)

Patsplace said:


> As I carry the CL1H as an EDC, I'm looking forward to side by side comparison of the two as that will give me something concrete to compare it to.
> 
> Pat


 
How do you have your CL1H configured? How would you want the C2H configured (textured or smooth reflector)? I could try to offer some comparisons to include in my C2H review. 

I have the 4SD Q5 WC for my C2H. Wish I had a Q3 5A and R2 WC pills.  I might try and pick up a Q3 or Q2 5A as I really like the warmer tint.


----------



## Fird (Nov 2, 2008)

I'll be comparing the C2H with Q3 5A AND my brand new Q3 5A CL1H module when they arrive. I've also got an older Q4 (WC?) module to toss in as well. Should be interesting to see 1.0A in the C2H vs 1.2A on the exact same LED, except in the CL1H with its associated reflector. I'm curious myself how much difference there will be.

--edit--

Ok I'll post initial impressions after running both lights for a couple of days, then follow with pictures later when I get the chance. 

With both lights running their respective OP reflectors, and operating on freshly charged batteries the C2H beam is quite a bit wider than the CL1H, much more useful for EDC work, whereas the CL1H is definitely a throw light as expected. 

I've done several separate ceiling bonce tests which, subjectively, show no difference between the C2H and the CL1H in total output running thir respective Q3 5A. This surprised me, and also made me question whether the CL1H was indeed pushing 1.2A at the LED. This was tested on an Emoli 18650 with a rated maximum discharge rate of 20A, so the battery was not the problem. The C2H was operating on a Trustfire RCR123, which doesn't seem to have any issues supplying the current required.

I'm rather impressed by the nice tint of the Q3 5A pill for color rendition outdoors, running in either light. It's about as natural as an incan, except that the beam is nice and smooth as opposed to most of the incans I've seen, which have some sorts of flaws in them. Eventually I configured the C2H on its lowest setting (1%) for general navigation through the woods, for this purpose it was about the perfect brightness to preserve decent night vision. In the same hand I was also able to hold the CL1H, set to maximum, as a 'blast' light if I needed to see something further away. Normally I wouldn't be using 2 lights simultaneously, but I had to play with both . Pretty soon I'll be adding a DBS to the lineup as well so I can monkey with all 3.

Indoors and at close ranges my preference is definitely the C2H for its wider beam. I do like 4 modes, though they aren't spread out super well. The 5% and 30% modes look almost exactly the same at close ranges, you have to back out to medium range to see it. I'd just as soon have 100%, 10% and 1% (or even 0.1%) following a bit of a logarithmic scale.


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## WadeF (Nov 8, 2008)

Tonight I was playing around with my C2H and noticed how well I can see the beam in my house when it's on high. Maybe my house is dusty, lol. So I took a picture just fooling around. I set the camera to ISO 100, f2.8, and 15 seconds for the shutter. I think the WB was set on AUTO. 

Now, the only source of light in the room is the C2H. In the shot it is lighting up the room and itself! I thought the lighting effect on the flashlight from the light bouncing off the cieling and walls was pretty cool. This is the raw image from the camera, I didn't do any adjustments as I thought it came out kinda cool.


----------



## glenda17 (Nov 8, 2008)

Could someone explain the UI? This is the only question I have before ordering one.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 8, 2008)

Wade, that's a really cool photo! It's surprising how far lights have come in the last couple of years. Before, you'd have to have a pretty big flashlight to be able to photograph the beam coming out. 

glenda17: Here's some info I wrote in response to someone else who was wondering about the UI. Hope it helps. 

The C2H has four brightness levels. The ramping up and ramping down descriptions just refer to how it cylces through those brightess settings with each half-press of the switch. The RU version goes to the next higher level with each half-press. The RD version goes to the next lower level with each half-press. The C2H doesn't come on in a particular setting... it has a memory feature so it comes on at whatever level was used last (Memory works if it was on longer than 1-2 seconds... as well as off for at least 1-2 seconds). If it was only on for a half second or so, the next time it's turned on it will come on at the next level. 

See posts #143 and #146 of this thread for some good info on operation and lumens.





http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...eelight&page=5


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## Fird (Nov 8, 2008)

yeah, it's interesting that the old Q4 pills had a much 'faster' mode switch time. By comparison the newest pills are quite sluggish. I used to be able to cycle through modes with very very brief 'off' cycles, and lock a mode by just holding it 'on' for about a half second. Total mode switch time: 1 second. With the latest pills I've had to re-learn my timing (hold down the switch or latch it on for 2 seconds or more after selecting a mode) so that I don't accidentally have it come on in the wrong mode. I definitely preferred the shorter timing version.


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## JKL (Nov 12, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Took some fun pics of my C2H, anyone else got pics of their C2H?



:wave:


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## torpeau (Nov 12, 2008)

Here's another:


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## WadeF (Nov 12, 2008)

My 2nd C2H came today.  I decided to just get another one with the 4SD Q3 5A Ramp Up pill. I installed the smooth reflector in this as well. Comparing it with my 4SD Q5 WC RD pill I get 4,700LUX at one meter from the Q5 WC, and 3,900LUX at one meter from the Q3 5A. So the Q3's lux at one meter is roughly 15% less. Shame I don't have a R2 WC, maybe I'll have to order one of those too, but the difference between the R2 and Q5 would probably be 5-10% if that. 

I really like having the nuetral white (Q3 5A) in the C2H. I can't wait to try them tonight in the dark and compare their throw. It will be interesting to see how the 5A holds up to the WC, even though the WC is a bit brighter on the lux meter. 

I also got some of AW's new IMR16340 batteries. So far so good in the C2H. They should be the perfect battery for the C2H as the C2H comes with over discharge protection enabled. I'm not going to disable it because the IMR16340 batteries are not protected. They are however safe chemistry lithiums, yet 3.7v (4.17v or so off the charger), so they shouldn't go BOOM.

The C2H on high is drawing around 1.4A, or so I hear, which maybe hard on the regular AW R123's, and reduce their # of cycles. The new IMR16340's have been tested up to 5A!!! So they will have no problem with the high draw of the C2H.


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## kurni (Nov 12, 2008)

Thanks Wade for the battery suggestion. I wouldn't have thought of IMR unless without reading your post.


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## Dukester (Nov 12, 2008)

WadeF said:


> The C2H on high is drawing around 1.4A, or so I hear, which maybe hard on the regular AW R123's, and reduce their # of cycles. The new IMR16340's have been tested up to 5A!!! So they will have no problem with the high draw of the C2H.



Are you sure? :thinking:Thought I read somewhere recently the C2H draws up to 1a? Can't find my source for my argument

Dave


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## kurni (Nov 12, 2008)

Dukester said:


> Are you sure? :thinking:Thought I read somewhere recently the C2H draws up to 1a? Can't find my source for my argument
> 
> Dave



To _push_ 1A to emitter; C2H need to draw more than 1A _if_ the battery voltage is lower than emitter voltage _at_ 1A.

Battery voltage varies, and emitter voltage also varies. Depending on both voltages, C2H _could_ draw 1.4A.


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## WadeF (Nov 12, 2008)

I'll try and get a voltage reading from my C2H tonight, but the driver is supposed to deliver 1A to the emitter, so like kurni pointed out, it will most likely have to draw more current from the battery. Since the circuit is regulated, to continue delivering 1A to the emitter, it will have to draw more and more current from the battery as the battery's voltage drops.


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## Dukester (Nov 12, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I'll try and get a voltage reading from my C2H tonight, but the driver is supposed to deliver 1A to the emitter, so like kurni pointed out, it will most likely have to draw more current from the battery. Since the circuit is regulated, to continue delivering 1A to the emitter, it will have to draw more and more current from the battery as the battery's voltage drops.



I'd be curious to know... Anyhow, you will be a good source thanks.

Dave


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## orbital (Nov 12, 2008)

WadeF said:


> My 2nd C2H came today.  I decided to just get another one with the 4SD Q3 5A Ramp Up pill. I installed the smooth reflector in this as well. Comparing it with my 4SD Q5 WC RD pill I get 4,700LUX at one meter from the Q5 WC, and 3,900LUX at one meter from the Q3 5A. So the Q3's lux at one meter is roughly 15% less. Shame I don't have a R2 WC, maybe I'll have to order one of those too, but the difference between the R2 and Q5 would probably be 5-10% if that.
> 
> I really like having the nuetral white (Q3 5A) in the C2H. I can't wait to try them tonight in the dark and compare their throw. It will be interesting to see how the 5A holds up to the WC, even though the WC is a bit brighter on the lux meter.
> 
> ...



+

Great post Wade!

___________________________________

My current Dereelight clan:}

CL1H V1 w/ SSC, DBS V1 w/ top secret pill, CL1H V2 w/ M60, C2H V1 5AQ2 and 8degree optic


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## WadeF (Nov 12, 2008)

Orbital, how did you go about putting an optic in the C2H?


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## orbital (Nov 12, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Orbital, how did you go about putting an optic in the C2H?



+

It wasn't a straight drop-in,, took a bit of fine tuning and needed a narrower lens. (good thing to have some backup parts)
In the end it turned out great,..I can PM you specifics if your interested.


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## Evil Twin (Nov 12, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> It wasn't a straight drop-in,, took a bit of fine tuning and needed a narrower lens. (good thing to have some backup parts)
> In the end it turned out great,..I can PM you specifics if your interested.



I'm interested in specifics! :wave:



WadeF said:


> I also got some of AW's new IMR16340 batteries. So far so good in the C2H. They should be the perfect battery for the C2H as the C2H comes with over discharge protection enabled. I'm not going to disable it because the IMR16340 batteries are not protected. They are however safe chemistry lithiums, yet 3.7v (4.17v or so off the charger), so they shouldn't go BOOM.



Wade, do you have any way of checking how many Mah get put back into your IMR's when charging? I went with the AW's since they are 750Mah instead of the IMR's which are "only" 550Mah. The only thing is that when I was charging one of the AW's today, it only put in about 250MAh (I think the AW + high C2H current draw = votage sag that trips the protection circuitry). Since the IMR's are made for high draw applications, I might actually get more energy out of them than the higher capacity AW's. :shrug:


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## Ayeaux (Nov 12, 2008)

I'm definitely interested in one of these with a 5A Q3. But, I'm having trouble visualizing the tint. I've seen the comparisons to other cool leds. Could someone describe a comparison to a soft white incandescent light bulb? Or a soft white CFL?

Thanks.


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## kurni (Nov 12, 2008)

Ayeaux said:


> I'm definitely interested in one of these with a 5A Q3. But, I'm having trouble visualizing the tint. I've seen the comparisons to other cool leds. Could someone describe a comparison to a soft white incandescent light bulb? Or a soft white CFL?
> 
> Thanks.



Taken from my Dereelight drop-in review, which was _*Q2 5A*_.

Canon PowerShot S3 IS daylight.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 12, 2008)

Evil Twin said:


> I went with the AW's since they are 750Mah instead of the IMR's which are "only" 550Mah. The only thing is that when I was charging one of the AW's today, it only put in about 250MAh (I think the AW + high C2H current draw = votage sag that trips the protection circuitry). Since the IMR's are made for high draw applications, I might actually get more energy out of them than the higher capacity AW's. :shrug:


 
Your assumptions are right-on. The IMR's have less stated capacity, but in usage I'm getting the same runtimes as the AW 750 mAH "normal" RCR123's.
Like Wade mentioned, these may be the perfect battery for the C2H. :twothumbs


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## kurni (Nov 12, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> Your assumptions are right-on. The IMR's have less stated capacity, but in usage I'm getting the same runtimes as the AW 750 mAH "normal" RCR123's.
> Like Wade mentioned, these may be the perfect battery for the C2H. :twothumbs



:sweat:Aaawww... man... I thought I would be happy with LD01 SS, but now I'm not sure if I should get this one instead 

I know I know, they're totally different. I'm not interested in arguing which one is better; it's just a matter of personal preference.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 12, 2008)

WadeF, I'm looking forward to what you think of the 5A outdoors compared to the WC! 

kurni, awesome pics! I'll refer people here when they ask what the tint is like.


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## WadeF (Nov 12, 2008)

Got my 2nd C2H today with a 4SD Q3 5A RU drop-in. Thought I'd take another 15 second exposure shot like I did before, but with both.  Should be easy to tell which is which, one is cool white, one is nuetral white:


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## kurni (Nov 12, 2008)

Awesome pics, Wade; through my eyes Q3 is less bright. Do you think so?


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## WadeF (Nov 12, 2008)

kurni said:


> Awesome pics, Wade; through my eyes Q3 is less bright. Do you think so?


 
Yeah, the Q3 is like 15% less bright. Maybe Dereelight should crank it up to 1.2A, but that would surely get the C2H cooking in no time. 

We need a version for those of us with the IMR16340 batteries, run a Cree R2 WC at 2A! :laughing: It could run for 5-10 second bursts, or it would go


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## kurni (Nov 12, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Yeah, the Q3 is like 15% less bright. Maybe Dereelight should crank it up to 1.2A, but that would surely get the C2H cooking in no time.



In petrol station you'll have:

No smoking
No mobile phone
No C2H 1.2A with IMR16340


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## Evil Twin (Nov 12, 2008)

kurni said:


> In petrol station you'll have:
> 
> No smoking
> No mobile phone
> No C2H 1.2A with IMR16340


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## WadeF (Nov 13, 2008)

kurni said:


> In petrol station you'll have:
> 
> No smoking
> No mobile phone
> No C2H 1.2A with IMR16340


 
Hopefully my C2H never shorts my IMR16340 while it's in my pocket. The battery may survive, but my C2H would probably be glowing hot.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 13, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I'll try and get a voltage reading from my C2H tonight, but the driver is supposed to deliver 1A to the emitter, so like kurni pointed out, it will most likely have to draw more current from the battery. Since the circuit is regulated, to continue delivering 1A to the emitter, it will have to draw more and more current from the battery as the battery's voltage drops.


 
Here's some current readings (draw from the battery). All readings were taken on high mode.

C2H RU R2:
AW 750mAH RCR123, 1160 mA
AW IMR 16340, 1190 mA

C2H RU 5A Q3:
AW 750mAH RCR123, 1200 mA
AW IMR 16340, 1230 mA


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 13, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Hopefully my C2H never shorts my IMR16340 while it's in my pocket. The battery may survive, but my C2H would probably be glowing hot.


 
:lolsign: Still better than a ... I guess...


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## kurni (Nov 13, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> Here's some current readings (draw from the battery). All readings were taken on high mode.
> 
> C2H RU R2:
> AW 750mAH RCR123, 1160 mA
> ...



Your R2 is a good one; lower Vf than your Q3. I thought it would have been the opposite.


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## kurni (Nov 13, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Hopefully my C2H never shorts my IMR16340 while it's in my pocket. The battery may survive, but my C2H would probably be glowing hot.



I'm more worried about your body part next to your pocket; it would be like a horse with a burnt mark of the owner's initial.


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## WadeF (Nov 13, 2008)

kurni said:


> I'm more worried about your body part next to your pocket; it would be like a horse with a burnt mark of the owner's initial.


 
Uhm, maybe I should be worried about that, but you need not be. 

I think I'm going to go test the current draw on my C2H's. The current should increase as the battery's voltage drops with use.


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## WadeF (Nov 13, 2008)

My Q5 WC is drawing 1.3A from the IMR16340 with the resting voltage of the battery at 3.93v.

My Q3 5A is drawing 1.1A from the IMR16340 with the battery at the same voltage.


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## kurni (Nov 13, 2008)

WadeF said:


> My Q5 WC is drawing 1.3A from the IMR16340 with the resting voltage of the battery at 3.93v.
> 
> My Q3 5A is drawing 1.1A from the IMR16340 with the battery at the same voltage.



Vf lottery is much better than tint lottery


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## orbital (Nov 13, 2008)

WadeF said:


>



+

Wade, you have captured some of the _coolest_ pics in CPF.

:kewlpics: & thanks!


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## thenolden (Nov 13, 2008)

Hello.

Thank you all for being here, and for helping me discover my flashlight addiction, dormant untill now.

A newbie`s question: Why couldn`t I find anywhere a mention of the lumen output (as stated in every flashlight sold) for the Dereelight line?
I would think that this is the tipping point in deciding for us, lay people.

Each one of the products in the line has the perfect look. The technical people rave about each detail. I definitely want a couple.

Can I get clarification on that point?


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## WadeF (Nov 13, 2008)

They state the current to the emitter, which is 1A. So depending on which emitter you choose depends on the output. You also need a 3.7V lithium rechargable battery to get the full output. Roughly a Q5 or R2 at 1A should be producing 200+ lumens out the front of the C2H. The emitter lumens should be in the 250-270 range.


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## torpeau (Nov 13, 2008)

thenolden said:


> A newbie`s question: Why couldn`t I find anywhere a mention of the lumen output (as stated in every flashlight sold) for the Dereelight line?
> I would think that this is the tipping point in deciding for us, lay people.



Be careful, some manufacturers and/or retailers realize lumens could be a "tipping point" and play with those figures.


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## HKJ (Nov 13, 2008)

thenolden said:


> A newbie`s question: Why couldn`t I find anywhere a mention of the lumen output (as stated in every flashlight sold) for the Dereelight line?



To measure real lumens your need an integrations sphere, but not many people or small companies has one, because it is quite expensive.

Some companies then does an estimate of the lumens, but that is usual the bulb lumens (i.e. what the led/bulb sends out) and from the bulb to outside the flashlight there will be a loss (Only between 65% and 85% percent get out).

If your need some comparable lumens, check this treat here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/211402


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## thenolden (Nov 14, 2008)

Thank you ll for the info and referral.

Slowly educating myself on subjects new for me, and getting used to the lingo.

Looks like a cult I would like to belong to. Now just direct me to your Treasurer, 
in order to bankroll a buying spree(presently having 
just 2 decent flashlights in transit to here, and a few unworthy
ones in my posession). Is it cheaper by the dozen?


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## kurni (Nov 14, 2008)

thenolden said:


> Thank you ll for the info and referral.
> 
> Slowly educating myself on subjects new for me, and getting used to the lingo.
> 
> ...



:welcome: the bigger the cult the merrier :twothumbs


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## glenda17 (Nov 14, 2008)

Sold my P2D-Q5 to get this C2H-R2. The Deerelight is just downright superior. I have never felt threads this smooth on a flashlight. There is no twisting for turbo mode. The Deerelight is a lot brighter. Best of all the modes work with a standard RCR. The GITD o-ring is a nice bonus. And with the clip no more pocket pool digging out the flashlight when needed. Couldn't be happier with this upgrade.


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## glenda17 (Nov 15, 2008)

How long is safe to leave the C2H on high ?


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## EngrPaul (Nov 15, 2008)

glenda17 said:


> Sold my P2D-Q5 to get this C2H-R2. The Deerelight is just downright superior. I have never felt threads this smooth on a flashlight. There is no twisting for turbo mode. The Deerelight is a lot brighter. Best of all the modes work with a standard RCR. The GITD o-ring is a nice bonus. And with the clip no more pocket pool digging out the flashlight when needed. Couldn't be happier with this upgrade.


 
That's good news. I have a Fenix PD20 and already there are small pieces of anodization falling off, even though I've only carried it in the little change pocket of my jeans (without change). It seems they overdid the thickness.

When I change out the PD20 battery, the tailcap turns free/easy/free/easy, as if the anodization is uneven or the tailcap is out of roundness.

No GID tailcap is available with the PD20, and adding a GID o-ring doesn't work because it falls off. There isn't a Neutral option with the Fenix either.

When I carry my Nitecore D10 with pocket clip, I find it's killing my jeans pocket already because of the aggressive knurling and tight clip. The smooth body of the C2H will be a welcome change.

I hope I get mine today, woo hoo!


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 15, 2008)

You can leave it on high as long as you want _if_ you're holding it in your hand. Your hand will act as a radiator to carry heat away from the light. If you're just going to set it somewhere on high, or tailstand it, I wouldn't leave it on for more than 10 minutes. 
I've done runtime testing on high (25 minutes) with the lights just sitting on a table. I haven't noticed any problems, but it's probably not good for the long-term life of the emitter.


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## The Sun (Nov 15, 2008)

i have a real world flashaholic question: is it difficult to choose what light to carry (out of all the rest of your lights) while having a C2H in your collection? 

i guess what i mean is; will i still be standing in front of my closet every morning for ten minutes deciding what light i'm gonna put in my pocket, or will it be a no brainer? 

thats my biggest time wasting problem in the morning (to myself: should i take the jet II, or the extreme...no i'll take the L1, or maybe the e1b, but wait a minute what about the NDI, but i allready have my EX10, so maybe i'll just bring e2dl, ahhhh hell i'll just take the mag solitare
morning for me = (to myself) /  / :tsk: / 

i hope my Deree's get here Monday!!!!

i'm sending out a cry for help!!!!!:mecry::hairpull::help:


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## glenda17 (Nov 15, 2008)

The Sun said:


> i have a real world flashaholic question: is it difficult to choose what light to carry (out of all the rest of your lights) while having a C2H in your collection?


 

For pocket EDC this C2H is tops as far as I am concerned. I pick this over the fenix, Oolight, LumaPower, Liteflux 1x RCR123 lights. The C2H just screams quality from the finish to the threads to the O-rings, it is the highest quality light I own. The brightnes is unbelievable for such a small package.


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## EngrPaul (Nov 15, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> Here's some current readings (draw from the battery). All readings were taken on high mode.
> 
> C2H RU R2:
> AW 750mAH RCR123, 1160 mA
> ...


 
Can you measure voltage simultaneously? You'll need two meters and perhaps take the battery out of the light... using alligator jumpers or similar.

If the IMR's are holding their voltage higher under load (which I would expect to be the case), then there's more power going to the driver and hence the LED.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 15, 2008)

EngrPaul said:


> Can you measure voltage simultaneously? You'll need two meters and perhaps take the battery out of the light... using alligator jumpers or similar.
> 
> If the IMR's are holding their voltage higher under load (which I would expect to be the case), then there's more power going to the driver and hence the LED.


 
If I get time this weekend I will. I did see some load charts of the IMR16340, I think it was holding higher voltage than regular RCR123's, but not sure. I did lux testing with the two battery styles, and got the same lux readings. I'll redo that test with several batteries, just to be certain.


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## matrixshaman (Nov 15, 2008)

Does anyone else notice that lights with a GITD O-ring in the bezel seem to throw a lot of green tint on white objects? This is one thing I'm not wild about with the C2H although in some ways it's cool ( like when you tell your friends the green after glow is from it's nuclear powered battery and that's why it's so bright ). At least I'm hoping it's a green tinge from the O-ring and not the LED putting out that much green. I noticed it most when I hit some Tyvek (very white construction paper like stuff) with it and it was very green looking. 

Is there a standard O-ring replacement for the C2H or does anyone know the specs on this O-ring size?


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 16, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> Does anyone else notice that lights with a GITD O-ring in the bezel seem to throw a lot of green tint on white objects? This is one thing I'm not wild about with the C2H although in some ways it's cool ( like when you tell your friends the green after glow is from it's nuclear powered battery and that's why it's so bright ). At least I'm hoping it's a green tinge from the O-ring and not the LED putting out that much green. I noticed it most when I hit some Tyvek (very white construction paper like stuff) with it and it was very green looking.
> 
> Is there a standard O-ring replacement for the C2H or does anyone know the specs on this O-ring size?


 
I haven't noticed it on the C2H, but then again I haven't really looked for it either. I'm out of the C2H R2 like you have, but when I have more I'll see if I can notice it. The orings for the CL1H and DBS body are a good replacement... they're slightly bigger in diameter, but the same thickness. I just put one in my C2H 5A Q3...fits just fine. I'll send you a couple of them on Monday.


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## matrixshaman (Nov 16, 2008)

FlashCrazy - Wow! Thank You! I noticed this effect on another fairly new flashlight also that had a GITD bezel O-ring but unfortunately it's not one that can be easily taken apart like the C2H. For me it's always been a tossup between wanting a nice white beam versus the coolness factor of the GITD in the head. Thanks for offering these so I can try this out.


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## matrixshaman (Nov 16, 2008)

One other feature I haven't seen discussed - in the only pic I've been able to find of the inside of the C2H head in post #103 in this message thread it shows the back of the pill battery contact point as a bare PCB. The one I have has a tiny spring soldered on to the middle of this point. I like seeing this in most lights - that is a spring on both ends. Is this new?


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## torpeau (Nov 16, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> One other feature I haven't seen discussed - in the only pic I've been able to find of the inside of the C2H head in post #103 in this message thread it shows the back of the pill battery contact point as a bare PCB. The one I have has a tiny spring soldered on to the middle of this point. I like seeing this in most lights - that is a spring on both ends. Is this new?



I'll bet this is the later version -- to stop the light from shutting down when jarred. Mine is the earlier version and I have to set it down gently.


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## EngrPaul (Nov 16, 2008)

Agreed, the spring on the front end is there to prevent discontinuity when the battery briefly moves toward the tailcap when jarred. I just received mine yesterday, and it has this spring.

The spring is a tapered helix, I believe it goes completely flat when a battery is installed.

P.S. No GID green hue on mine (5A Q3)


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## WadeF (Nov 16, 2008)

I have an early and a later C2H. The older one has no spring on the PCB, the new one does. Also I haven't noticed any green cast from the GITD o-ring, but I haven't gone out of my way to look for it, so I'll do that when I have a chance.


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## andi555 (Nov 16, 2008)

Hello!

After I got the DBS V2 I am also thinking about to get the C2H.
But what is the differend between the C2H 4SD-RU and the C2H 4SD-RD?


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## EngrPaul (Nov 16, 2008)

andi555 said:


> what is the differend between the C2H 4SD-RU and the C2H 4SD-RD?


 
There are two version available.

4SD-RD-->Ramping Down version : brightness sequence ramping down, Burst(100%)-->High(30%)-->Medium(5%)-->Low(1%).
4SD-RU-->Ramping Up version: brightness sequence ramping up, Low(1%)--> Medium(5%)-->High(30%)-->Burst(100%).
http://www.dereelight.com/4sd_driver.htm


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## kaichu dento (Nov 16, 2008)

RU = Ramp Up
RD = Ramp Down
Many of us prefer to start on the lowest setting and go up from there and Dereelight was very responsive in offering this version in addition to the original, which started on the brightest setting and went down from there.


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## OrlandoLights (Nov 16, 2008)

Can you take the clip off for holster carry?


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## torpeau (Nov 16, 2008)

OrlandoLights said:


> Can you take the clip off for holster carry?



Looks to me like it would have to be cut off. I'm not a fan of clips, but I don't have a problem with it on my C2H.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 16, 2008)

torpeau said:


> Looks to me like it would have to be cut off. I'm not a fan of clips, but I don't have a problem with it on my C2H.


 
Correct, the clip in not removeable. I'm the same way... I generally don't like clips, but this one isn't that obtrusive. One good point is that it makes unscrewing the light for battery changes easier.


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## Soleggen (Nov 17, 2008)

What about the new driver for C2H? Dereelight said a new driver will be available this week.

Maybe we will have better runtime?

My source:

http://light-reviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=159


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 17, 2008)

Soleggen said:


> What about the new driver for C2H? Dereelight said a new driver will be available this week.
> 
> Maybe we will have better runtime?
> 
> ...


 
Alan at Dereelight hasn't mentioned the new driver to me, I'll have to ask him to see what it's about. I'll post the info here.


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## orbital (Nov 17, 2008)

FlashCrazy said:


> Alan at Dereelight hasn't mentioned the new driver to me, I'll have to ask him to see what it's about. I'll post the info here.



+

Thanks FlashCrazy for all the updates & info,...also, you have done a super job as the U.S. Dereelight Dealer.

Keep up the good work!

:thumbsup:


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## andi555 (Nov 17, 2008)

Thx for answering my question so fast guys!!!:twothumbs

Do you have any idea if the C2H is brighter than a Fenix L2D Q5?
Because I want to replace it!


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## WadeF (Nov 17, 2008)

andi555 said:


> Thx for answering my question so fast guys!!!:twothumbs
> 
> Do you have any idea if the C2H is brighter than a Fenix L2D Q5?
> Because I want to replace it!


 
I don't think the L2D Q5 is sending 1A to the emitter, so the C2H should have more out the front lumens running a Q5, or R2, at 1A. Obviously the run times will be shorter with the C2H.


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## kosPap (Nov 17, 2008)

hi all! I ma closer in getting mine but I would like to know something.

What are the pill dimensions? Any chance of a photo next to a D26 drop-in pill?

Thanx, Kostas


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 18, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Thanks FlashCrazy for all the updates & info,...also, you have done a super job as the U.S. Dereelight Dealer.
> 
> ...


 
You're welcome, orbital! Thank you for the compliements.


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 18, 2008)

kosPap said:


> hi all! I ma closer in getting mine but I would like to know something.
> 
> What are the pill dimensions? Any chance of a photo next to a D26 drop-in pill?
> 
> Thanx, Kostas


 
Hi there, Kostas. The pill itself it about 10mm x 20 mm, and the emitter adds another 4mm or so to the height. Here are a few pics of the pill next a Dereelight P60 (D26) drop-in. The C2H pill is squared off at the ends, not tapered like the P60 drop-in pill.


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## kosPap (Nov 18, 2008)

hmm that excludes the possibility of making by hand and file a new one (singlw stage) for the flashlight...

But in a non surefire host (that uses a surrounding spring that opens new options (running 2AA NiMh ina 3xCR123 body)

hmmm and thanks


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 19, 2008)

Soleggen said:


> What about the new driver for C2H? Dereelight said a new driver will be available this week.
> 
> Maybe we will have better runtime?
> 
> ...


 
Alan at Dereelight said there isn't a new driver. I'm not sure what the discussion was about on light-reviews.com :shrug:


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## WadeF (Nov 19, 2008)

Maybe by new they were referring to the Ramp Up version. Originally it was just Ramp Down right?


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## FlashCrazy (Nov 19, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Maybe by new they were referring to the Ramp Up version. Originally it was just Ramp Down right?


 
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. :thinking:


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## gsegelk (Nov 27, 2008)

I was on the website planning to purchase only the DBS V2 with the 5A Q3 and I couldn't resist adding the C2H 5A Q3!! These will be the first 5A lights I have...the beamshots that I've seen look good so hopefully it won't look much different first-hand. At least I always have the option of changing out the pills if I don't like it! I think comparing the DBS V2 Q3 and my Tiablo A8 Q5 (WC?) will be a decent way to see the difference in color. 

After reading the posts, I'm definitely thinking the RCR123 option for the C2H is the way to go...AW's IMR16340 seems to be the best option unless someone says otherwise? I'm a little worried about a lack of a protection circuit but the more I read about them the less concerned I am. Of course, since the light has built in protection, I'm reading up more on the safety issues WRT charging.


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## MrFunk (Dec 23, 2008)

Hi everybody,
I read all the topic but I don't understando why my c2h doesn't works neither with AW or Ultrafire. I tested batteries for example AW ( 3,56 V.) then I insert in the flashlight and after 5 seconds I tested it again it measures 3,09v.
Then after 1 minutes it switches off.
How is it possible ? do u think that cutting pcb trace will be good ? I can't find the wire to cut, I saw the pictures posted here but I don't understand what I have to cut exactly.
Thanks for the help


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## HKJ (Dec 23, 2008)

MrFunk said:


> Hi everybody,
> I read all the topic but I don't understando why my c2h doesn't works neither with AW or Ultrafire. I tested batteries for example AW ( 3,56 V.) then I insert in the flashlight and after 5 seconds I tested it again it measures 3,09v.



Try using a charged battery, at 3.56 volt the battery is nearly empty, a full battery is 4.2 volt.


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## WadeF (Dec 23, 2008)

HKJ said:


> Try using a charged battery, at 3.56 volt the battery is nearly empty, a full battery is 4.2 volt.



+1

If the battery isn't coming off the charger at 4.10-4.20v there maybe a problem with either the battery or the charger.


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## hivoltage (Dec 30, 2008)

I just bought one of these and I really like it. I am thinking ot looks brighter than my Jetbeam Jet II. Any how I just cut the wire for unprotected cells because I never use them in it, and was wondering if anybody has tried both reflectors and was there much difference in the two?


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## GarageBoy (Jun 5, 2009)

Is this as efficient as the current regulated P2D Q5? (efficiency is the only thing stopping me right now)


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## Xak (Jun 5, 2009)

I've had my eye on this light, too, ever since I lost my limited edition nickle plated Lumapower IncinDio. Can't decide if I want another or this one.


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## FlashCrazy (Jun 5, 2009)

hivoltage said:


> I just bought one of these and I really like it. I am thinking ot looks brighter than my Jetbeam Jet II. Any how I just cut the wire for unprotected cells because I never use them in it, and was wondering if anybody has tried both reflectors and was there much difference in the two?


 
I missed this post before, and my answer probably won't help you now... but for everyone else's info I'll chime in. There's not a whole lot of difference between the two.. the orange peel reflector is a really light finish, not much "peel" to it.  The smooth reflector versions measure about 4500 lux, the OP versions about 3900-4000. Not much gain with the SMO. I like the OP.. smooths out the beam a little, and doesn't cut throw too much. Others like the SMO, as the OP beam isn't a whole lot smoother.. they'd rather keep every bit of throw.


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## FlashCrazy (Jun 5, 2009)

GarageBoy said:


> Is this as efficient as the current regulated P2D Q5? (efficiency is the only thing stopping me right now)


 
No, it's not as efficient as the P2D. Smaller? Yes. Brighter? Yes.  It actually outperforms the P3D-CE Premium Edition in terms of lumens/throw. Dereelight just revised the circuit, changing the spacing between levels, and the capture time for the memory has been reduced. The lower is also twice as low now. 

Here are some runtime estimates for the new circuit, using an RCR123 rechargeable battery:

Turbo (*1.0 amp* drive current!!).....25-30 min.
High..........................................1.5 hours
Medium......................................3.2 hours
Low..........................................*20* hours


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## kavvika (Jun 18, 2009)

Thought I would add my input to this thread. I traded for a C2H the first day of summer and it hasn't left my pocket since. Bright, upgradable, and can run on RCR's. Finally I have found my perfect EDC light. I replaced the Q5 WC pill it came with with a Q3 5A pill. I can't get enough of these neutral tint emitters. If you don't have a C2H yet, get one! Build quality feels better than a Surefire, IMO. I just tested the current draw on my light with a slightly used IMR cell in it. Results are as follows:

Low: .06A
Med: .41A
High: .86A
Turbo: 1.20A! quickly settling to 1.15A

The slightly lower than average efficiency doesn't bother me since it can accept RCR's, and it's still better than Jetbeams circuit. Performance on AW's IMR's is amazing: when I had the Q5 pill installed, it was the single brightest LED light I had. However, the loss of lumens was more than made up for by the warm tint. Here's hoping for a neutral white Q4 XP-E pill soon!


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## jblackwood (Jun 18, 2009)

Don't forget the flexibility this little pocket rocket offers as far as battery usage. You can solder the necessary contacts to use primary CR123's if you so choose. If you use AW's RCR123's with the built in over-discharge circuit (like I do), soldering this contact gives you the flexibility to use either or. The light comes with the protection circuit enabled, so if your RCR123's don't have an onboard protection circuit, don't worry, they'll still be safe just don't freak when your primaries don't last more than 5-10 minutes!


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## curry__muncha (Jul 1, 2009)

Is it true that theres a high pitched whine on the high setting?

http://light-reviews.com/dereelight_edc_c2h/
"The C2H uses PWM for the lower levels, the frequency of the PWM is very high and you will not notice any signs of it unless you intentionally wave it pointing towards you. Also, it does produce a subtle high pitched sound, very soft at 1% and increases towards 100%."


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## hivoltage (Jul 1, 2009)

I just checked mine, I have to really try to hear it. I never even noticed it until I read that last post....


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## kavvika (Jul 1, 2009)

With my current Q3 5A RU pill, I only hear a faint high-pitched whining on low. It disappears on med, high, and turbo.


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## orbital (Dec 31, 2009)

+

R5 XP-G & specific reflector for C2H now listed..:thumbsup:
Dealers should hav'em soon

Hopefully some pictures any day


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## Henk_Lu (Dec 31, 2009)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> R5 XP-G & specific reflector for C2H now listed..:thumbsup:
> Dealers should hav'em soon
> ...



Thanks for the update, I hadn't seen them... lovecpf


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## Illumination (Dec 31, 2009)

Nice; this may be my first Dereelight. Always liked the simplicity of this light and the creation of a ramp up version. Good job Dereelight adding the XPGs! (I for one hate Cree rings, which generally don't exist with the XPGs.)

where were the new versions listed?


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## Henk_Lu (Dec 31, 2009)

Illumination said:


> where were the new versions listed?



On Dereelights website.

Don't expect anything special, it's just the denominations that changed (or not yet) and the prices (or not yet).

For met it's enough, I can check the lights later... when they arrive! :devil:


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## OneBigDay (Jan 27, 2010)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> R5 XP-G & specific reflector for C2H now listed..:thumbsup:
> Dealers should hav'em soon
> ...



Thought I would jumpstart this instead of starting a new thread.

I have been looking for the perfect AA light <remove long list of qualities here>, and feel like I have looked at a million lights. This C2H with XP-G looks like exactly what I am looking for. Only 1 major issue (I am not making this one up as a subjective reason for not buying) -> runtime. Check out the runtimes in the following threads. This seems unacceptable, doesn't it? :thinking:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/217772
http://www.light-reviews.com/dereelight_edc_c2h/

So the burning question on the *new* version with the more efficient XP-G, and it appears the electronics have been reworked since the above said reviews as well. So does anybody have run times for the most recent version?


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## WadeF (Jan 27, 2010)

I don't have any run time data, but I think I'm going to have to order a XP-G for my C2H and see how it is. It should improve the quality of the beam, output, etc. Hoping it's still pushing 1A to the emitter.


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## orbital (Jan 28, 2010)

OneBigDay said:


> Thought I would jumpstart this instead of starting a new thread.
> 
> I have been looking for the perfect AA light <remove long list of qualities here>, and feel like I have looked at a million lights. This C2H with XP-G looks like exactly what I am looking for. Only 1 major issue (I am not making this one up as a subjective reason for not buying) -> runtime. Check out the runtimes in the following threads. This seems unacceptable, doesn't it? :thinking:
> 
> ...



+

OneBigDay, 
to be fair, the first 3-mode C2H drivers (for AA size extension) were optimized for a 14500 cell.

Performance w/ 14500 is very good....runtimes are par.


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## OneBigDay (Jan 28, 2010)

orbital - thanks for the comments.

I will probably run either a RCR123 or R14500, but it was important to me that it is at least a possibility to run a NiMh AA. Obviously the 123 format is a bit shorter, so that would be the way to go with rechargeable lithium cells. The only reason I can see to go with 14500 is if that is what you already own. Or I suppose if you are out and about and your 14500 gives out, you can find a more available AA since you already have the extender tube ready to roll. If there is another non-obvious benefit to 14500 over 123 - let me know.

I sent an email to flashlight connection this morning asking about what percentage the medium setting is (30% or whatever) with the new 3 mode XP-G. I'd like to know because the low is very low, and the high is pushing the cells hard - so I want to be sure Medium is still a good amount of light - not 15% or something like that.
EDIT: I just found this link in the marketplace and this pretty much answers my questions http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2365905&postcount=1

This light appears to have so much going for it, I'm being drawn in


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## OneBigDay (Jan 28, 2010)

Approximate run times and lumen output from an email exchange with Flashlight Connection. This is for the new XP-G R5 C2H.

*RCR123 3.7V rechargeable
*High 240 lumens, 25-30 min
Med 50 lumens, 1.3 hrs
Low 10 lumens, 6 hrs

*CR123a 3.0V primary* 
190 lumens, 40 min
46 lumens, 2.9 hrs
10.5 lumens, 10 hrs

I know a lot of discussions are had around a "low low". I was more concerned about where medium was on the continuum. In the previous version it was around 15% of high, this version looks to be around 25%.


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