# La Crosse BC700 or BC900??????



## Bearcat (Nov 29, 2008)

OK, I'm about to pull the trigger (I think), on either the BC700 or BC900 after weeks of reading and trying to decide between the MAHA 9000 and these two La Crosse models. I went with La Crosse, because their chargers seemed less complicated and I liked their individual display function of each battery all shown at once. 

I'm not making a big mistake by selecting La Crosse over MAHA, I'm I?

I can get the BC700 for $32.99 with free shipping from Amazon.

I can get the BC900 for $37.99 with free shipping from Amazon *and* a travel bag, C&D battery adaptors, 4 AAA 700mah batteries, 4 AA 2000mah batteries. I probably won't use the bag, may use the adaptors, so are the La Crosse batteries worth the extra $5??????

The really big question, is there any difference between the 700 and 900 other than the default settings of their charge rates and that the 900 can charge at a higher and faster rate, because I will most likely charge at a lower setting anyway and I don't mind over riding the default charge rate on the 900 to set it at a lower charge rate.

The reason I'm hesitant, is because I read somewhere (can't find it again) that someone said they think that the BC700 will replace the BC900 and they did not say why. 

*Did La Crosse do something other than lower the charge rates on the BC700 to make them better and safer than the BC900???*


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## Light Sabre (Nov 29, 2008)

I have 2 of the BC-900's and they have been excellent battery chargers. They have 1.0 amp, 1.5 amp, and 1.8 amp charging modes that the BC-700 doesn't have. Some people have reported having meltdowns with the BC-900, but I think that they're using the high amperage modes on batteries that can't handle that much current. Probably the main reason for the new BC-700 charger. For AAA batteries I only use the 200 ma charge mode. For AA batteries I use the 500 ma charge mode 99% of the time. Have used the 700 ma charge mode a time or 2 when I was really in a big hurry. Tried the 1.0A mode a time or 2 just to see how things went. In my opinion the batteries got too hot for my tastes. Have never even tried the 1.5A or 1.8A modes. The Rayovac IC3 batteires (their charger would charge their 2000 maH batteries in 15 min) could probably handle that, but I only charge them at the 500 ma rate in the BC-900. La-Crosse probably updated the firmware, some people said the 3.2 version had a bad UI, just takes some time to get used to it. Hope this helps.


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## Bearcat (Nov 29, 2008)

Light Sabre said:


> I have 2 of the BC-900's and they have been excellent battery chargers. They have 1.0 amp, 1.5 amp, and 1.8 amp charging modes that the BC-700 doesn't have. Some people have reported having meltdowns with the BC-900, but I think that they're using the high amperage modes on batteries that can't handle that much current. Probably the main reason for the new BC-700 charger. For AAA batteries I only use the 200 ma charge mode. For AA batteries I use the 500 ma charge mode 99% of the time. Have used the 700 ma charge mode a time or 2 when I was really in a big hurry. Tried the 1.0A mode a time or 2 just to see how things went. In my opinion the batteries got too hot for my tastes. Have never even tried the 1.5A or 1.8A modes. The Rayovac IC3 batteires (their charger would charge their 2000 maH batteries in 15 min) could probably handle that, but I only charge them at the 500 ma rate in the BC-900. La-Crosse probably updated the firmware, some people said the 3.2 version had a bad UI, just takes some time to get used to it. Hope this helps.


 

It sounds like the higher charging modes on the BC-900 are about as good as **** on a boar hog, since you never use them, because they heat up your batteries so much. I was leaning toward the BC-700, but I figured that I could overide the default mode on the BC-900 if the accesories that come with it are worth $5.

Thanks, you have been very helpful.


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## SilverFox (Nov 29, 2008)

Hello Bearcat,

Some of us have studied up on what the battery manufacturers recommend for charging rates, and then spent some time following them and observing our results. I, for one, have been very pleased with the results. Originally, I thought that the 500 charge/discharge cycle life was grossly exaggerated, but after following the manufacturers recommendations, I am getting much closer, or even exceeding it.

The battery manufacturers recommend charging at a rate that completes the charge in 1 - 2 hours when the charger terminates on -dV or dT. Since the LaCrosse BC700 features -dV termination and a 700 mA charging rate, it will be excellent for cells up to 1400 mAh. This should take care of all of your AAA cells. The BC900 is better suited to AA cells, but for cells over 2000 mAh, you are limited to only being able to charge 2 cells at a time.

You can charge at lower charging rates, but you should expect sub par performance from your cells. Cells that get hot when charging at "normal" charging rates usually show lower voltage under load, and reduced capacity. I call those cells "crap" cells, and recycle them. Others feel that as long as a cell will take a charge it is good for something, however, they also often complain about poor cell performance.

Many people charge at slow charging rates thinking that cool cells will be better cared for. In actuality, you can overcharge cells at slow rates, and while the cell stays cool, damage is done during the overcharge. You may ask why do the cells become overcharged at low rates? The answer has to do with the chargers termination method. In order to generate a strong end of charge signal when the charger uses -dV for termination, you need to charge at a rate that generates a strong signal. Thus the recommendation to charge at a rate that completes the charge in 1 - 2 hours.

The original issue with the BC900 seems to be related to a substandard component being run at maximum levels. This seems to have been resolved with the later units. We have not heard of a BC900 melting down in quite some time now. If I remember correctly, the melt downs occurred when charging at the default 200 mA rate.

The BC700 was introduced before the BC900, so it is an older unit. We believe LaCrosse sold a warehouse of these units off to make room for other units, and now they are in the sales stream being "re-introduced" as if they are a new item.

As you can see, your impressions are backward. The BC900 replaced the BC700.

The accessories that come with the BC900 are nice. The adapters work well and the case is convenient. The cells are inconsistent, but if you get good ones they seem to work well. If you get bad ones, just recycle them and go on. I don't think they test out to their labeled capacity, but are actually closer to around 90% of their labeled capacity.

While most of us wish the C9000 had a similar display to the BC900, the feature that sets the C9000 ahead of the BC900 is the Break-In mode. Properly used, this function can extend the life of your cells and pay for the difference in the cost of the charger.

Tom


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## Bearcat (Nov 29, 2008)

Wow, SilverFox, you are loaded with information. I don't know where I got the information from that the BC700 came after the BC900. The only thing that really concerns me about the MA9000 is that I have read it's a little complicated to operate and difficult to understand. 

I bought a boat load of ROV Hybrids AAA and AA cells with my $5 off coupons, so that what I will be using for a very long time. Might get get some Enloops when the Hybrids die off. One reason that I wanted to upgrade from my ROV PS4 charger is where I could test my batteries to see what kind of charge that they had, so I could properly group them and discard the bad cells.

I guess I'm back to trying to decide again between the MA9000 and the BC900

Thanks for your time, your information was very helpful.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 29, 2008)

Bearcat said:


> The only thing that really concerns me about the MA9000 is that I have read it's a little complicated to operate and difficult to understand.


It's really not. If you know what volts, amps, mAh, capacity, charging, discharging mean, then it's very straightforward. You just follow the guided menus to get to the operation you want. There is also an instruction booklet that explains when to use each option in some detail.


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## SilverFox (Nov 29, 2008)

Hello Bearcat,

I might add that for the low self discharge rate cells, the default settings on the C9000 are great for AA cells. Just put them in and pull them out when the charge is done.

Tom


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## Black Rose (Nov 29, 2008)

Bearcat said:


> I guess I'm back to trying to decide again between the MA9000 and the BC900


Earlier this year I was in the exact same situation deciding between those two chargers. 
After reading numerous threads and checking out all I could about them, I opted for the C9000.

The C9000 can appear to be complicated but once you understand the functions, it's quite easy to work with.

If all you want to do is charge a 2000 or 2100 mAh AA, insert the cell and press the enter button and it will charge the cell using the default 1000 mA charge rate. The charge will complete in about 2 hours as noted in SilverFox's first response.

Quite a few members have the C9000, so there is lots of help here as well. 

The manual for the MH-C9000 is available in PDF format here.

And to avoid being labelled a C9000 fanboy  , the manual for the BC900 is also available in PDF format here.


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## Bones (Nov 29, 2008)

You are going to have to garner essentially the same knowledge to use any of these chargers effectively Bearcat, so I wouldn't use operational complexity as a deciding factor.

And while the LaCrosse chargers are somewhat more convenient to use for the routine tasks, they do lack the Wizard One's advanced forming functions which will better enable you to maximize your Hybrids' performance and longevity.

A side-by-side view of both chargers as posted on Amazon.com by NLee the Engineer:


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## RobertD (Nov 29, 2008)

I was in your shoes a year ago, and opted for the BC900. After using it for a year, I just purchased a Maha MH-C801D charger. I went with the LaCrosse first because of price and what appeared to be somewhat equal features to the C9000.

Why did I switch?
I'm getting annoyed with the charging sequence needed to alter the default charge rate of the BC900. Put in a battery, push the button a few times to get the rate up to 1A, wait a few seconds for the 'flash' to indicate the change, then repeat for the next cell, then the third cell, then the fourth cell. Sometimes the button push registers, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it skips and I have to press a bunch of times to get back around to the rate I want. And the wait seems like forever.

I just spent the weekend doing a conditioning 56 AA batteries (Eneloop 2000mah & Kodak 2100mah) with the 801D. It was a pure joy to just pop in 8 batteries as fast as I could and cycle them at a 2A charge without all the mess and fuss the BC900 would give me.

I say go with the C9000. I only went for the 801D because I wanted to be able to do 8 cells at a time, plus I'll still have the BC900 sitting around if I want to check true capacity of that oddball cell. But the 801D will be the on my desk doing the real work.


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## Lite_me (Nov 30, 2008)

RobertD said:


> Why did I switch?
> I'm getting annoyed with the charging sequence needed to alter the default charge rate of the BC900. Put in a battery, push the button a few times to get the rate up to 1A, wait a few seconds for the 'flash' to indicate the change, then repeat for the next cell, then the third cell, then the fourth cell. Sometimes the button push registers, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it skips and I have to press a bunch of times to get back around to the rate I want. And the wait seems like forever.


I don't understand why you're doing it this way. You can place all 4 batteries in the charger first, and then choose the charge rate. It applies it to all the batteries at once. At least that's the way I do it. You're making it more complicated than need be.


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## bcwang (Nov 30, 2008)

RobertD said:


> I'm getting annoyed with the charging sequence needed to alter the default charge rate of the BC900. Put in a battery, push the button a few times to get the rate up to 1A, wait a few seconds for the 'flash' to indicate the change, then repeat for the next cell, then the third cell, then the fourth cell.



Actually, with the bc900 you can pop in all cells at once and the charge rate and mode of operation can be set together. It's the Maha C9000 that requires individual setting on each cell.


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## Ziemas (Nov 30, 2008)

Bearcat said:


> Wow, SilverFox, you are loaded with information. I don't know where I got the information from that the BC700 came after the BC900. The only thing that really concerns me about the MA9000 is that I have read it's a little complicated to operate and difficult to understand.


I'm not a technical person, and I can say for sure that the Maha C-9000 is dead easy to use and understand.


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## Bearcat (Nov 30, 2008)

bcwang said:


> Actually, with the bc900 you can pop in all cells at once and the charge rate and mode of operation can be set together. It's the Maha C9000 that requires individual setting on each cell.


 
Is the above underlined really correct, for 100% certain?:sigh:

My head is beginning to hurt.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 30, 2008)

Bearcat said:


> Is the above underlined really correct, for 100% certain?


Yes, it is, but the interface is easy enough to use that it is not such a huge bother as it might seem.


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## Bearcat (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm I going to at a later date, after I learn more about chargers, hate myself and go to Hell:devil: if I go ahead and purchase the BC900 rather the C9000?

I really, really hate making the wrong choice on anything. All my experience gained from making incorrect decisions sure has been costly to me.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 30, 2008)

I can only tell you, as a C9000 owner, that I am completely satisfied with it -- and like you, I am very fussy about making the right purchase. I don't regret buying it at all.


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## phenwick (Nov 30, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I can only tell you, as a C9000 owner, that I am completely satisfied with it -- and like you, I am very fussy about making the right purchase. I don't regret buying it at all.


I completely agree. When it comes to these types of decisions, I ask myself would I do it over again, and this is one I definitely would do again. However, I use a lot of 700 mAh NiCad cells in my solar lights and the BC700 would do nicely, especially when it can be often found for $25.00. so I'm considering this as well. So sometimes a persons particular application can be a deciding factor.


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## Ziemas (Dec 1, 2008)

Bearcat said:


> Is the above underlined really correct, for 100% certain?:sigh:
> 
> My head is beginning to hurt.


It's really not an issue, and you are totally over thinking this.

It takes me no more than 15 seconds to program the C-9000 for all four batteries. If taking 15 seconds to program a charger to charge 4 batteries is unacceptable to you than stay away from the c-9000. If you are willing to spend 15 seconds programing your charger to charge 4 batteries than the C-9000 is a wonderful choice.


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## Black Rose (Dec 1, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I can only tell you, as a C9000 owner, that I am completely satisfied with it -- and like you, I am very fussy about making the right purchase. I don't regret buying it at all.


I totally agree.

I don't regret buying it and would have no problem buying another one.


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## Bearcat (Dec 1, 2008)

From what I have read here and other places, overwhelmingly those people who own BOTH the BC900 and C9000, say that they like the C9000 better, but alot of those same people still say that the BC900 is not a bad choice. 

Those people who own BOTH should know alot more than those people who have only experienced one of them when it comes to comparing them against one another.

Now where is the best place to get a good deal on a C9000?

Thanks for all help


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## Black Rose (Dec 1, 2008)

Bearcat said:


> Now where is the best place to get a good deal on a C9000?


There was a deal on the C9000, but that was for Black Friday.

Thomas Distributing seems to be one of the places that has ongoing deals on the C9000.


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## Turak (Dec 1, 2008)

Bearcat said:


> From what I have read here and other places, overwhelmingly those people who own BOTH the BC900 and C9000, say that they like the C9000 better, but alot of those same people still say that the BC900 is not a bad choice.
> 
> Those people who own BOTH should know alot more than those people who have only experienced one of them when it comes to comparing them against one another.


 
Well....

I have 2 BC900's and 2 MH-C9000's. I use all 4 of them constantly too. The MH-C9000's are always busy running Break-In cycles on new/old cells and the BC-900's are always busy either charging or running discharge-refresh cycles on older cells or on cells that have sat a while and just need some exercising.

I like them both for different reasons. Each unit has certain advantages and disadvantages. Most of them coming down to a matter of preference.

For example,

I think the BC900's method of displaying the information (i.e. all 4 batteries at once, semi-static display is MUCH, MUCH better than the MH-C9000's method of only showing one battery at a time and constantly rotating the display.

Also, even though the BC-900 doesn't strictly adhere to the IEC method of calculating the capacity (i.e. It doesn't wait an hour before proceeding with the next cycle), I find it is almost ALWAYS closer to the batteries advertised capacity than the MH-C9000.

But, the MH-C9000 is built a little bit sturdier, with much more space for the cells, which really helps a lot with keeping the cells cooler during charging. Internally, the MH-C9000 also has a better built circuit board and it uses a slightly better filtered power supply.

I like the MH-C9000's 'break-in' function, but I also like the 'Discharge-refresh' function of the BC-900. They both can, kind of, simulate/emulate each others functions but not exactly....so they are very similiar in capabilities

For example, the MH-C9000's 'cycle' function is similiar to the BC900's 'discharge-refresh' function, but with an important difference. Using the MH-C9000's 'cycle' function, it simply charges discharges a cell a set number of times (cycles). But with the BC-900's discharge-refresh function, it charges and discharges a cell and each time looks at the capacity comparing it with the capacity from the previous time, and keeps running charge/discharge cycles until no further improvement is noted. So....similiar, but different.

I could go on and on about my perception of the goods/bads of each unit...but there is no point other than becoming familiar with each units specific capabilities and shortcomings.

All in all....THEY ARE BOTH GOOD CHARGERS, but for different reasons.

To make a GREAT charger you would need combine them both in to a single unit and add the ability to do C, D, and 9v cells. :twothumbs


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## N162E (Dec 1, 2008)

Bearcat said:


> From what I have read here and other places, overwhelmingly those people who own BOTH the BC900 and C9000, say that they like the C9000 better, but alot of those same people still say that the BC900 is not a bad choice.
> 
> Those people who own BOTH should know alot more than those people who have only experienced one of them when it comes to comparing them against one another.
> 
> ...


Try here http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00077AA5Q/ref=nosim/coffeeresearch84121-20


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## Ziemas (Dec 2, 2008)

N162E said:


> Try here http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00077AA5Q/ref=nosim/coffeeresearch84121-20


I've read that review before, and it's totally disingenuous in regards to charging the C-9000. The writer makes setting the C-9000 to charge a battery a long, time consuming, and convoluted process, which any owner of a C-9000 can tell you that it clearly isn't. 

I don't know what the motivation was of writer of that review, but honesty clearly wasn't on the top of his list. 

By the way, I almost DIDN'T by a C-9000 due to all the fear-mongering in that review; I'm sure glad found other more honest reviews to go by!


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## bp044 (Dec 2, 2008)

I only use Eneloop cells which I believe SilverFox and others have said are ok to use out of the package without a forming charge.If this is correct and the main advantage of the C-9000 over the BC900 is the ability to do a forming charge what else would I be missing with the Lacrosse charger?


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## f22shift (Dec 2, 2008)

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/883648/

go!

La Crosse BC700 Alpha Power Battery Charger $13.49 Shipped ($8.19 + s+h)


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## N162E (Dec 2, 2008)

Ziemas said:


> I've read that review before, and it's totally disingenuous in regards to charging the C-9000. The writer makes setting the C-9000 to charge a battery a long, time consuming, and convoluted process, which any owner of a C-9000 can tell you that it clearly isn't.
> 
> I don't know what the motivation was of writer of that review, but honesty clearly wasn't on the top of his list.
> 
> By the way, I almost DIDN'T by a C-9000 due to all the fear-mongering in that review; I'm sure glad found other more honest reviews to go by!


I was not even looking at the review. Just a great price with free shipping.


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## N162E (Dec 2, 2008)

bp044 said:


> I only use Eneloop cells which I believe SilverFox and others have said are ok to use out of the package without a forming charge.If this is correct and the main advantage of the C-9000 over the BC900 is the ability to do a forming charge what else would I be missing with the Lacrosse charger?


Nothing at all. These new LSD cells are a whole different animal than the older conventional HSD cells. I have several of both chargers, they are both excellent, they both do the job very well. I favor the The LaCrosse chargers for charging because they terminate better at lower rates and do not need top off time at the end of charge to get a full charge.


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## geek4christ (Dec 2, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I can only tell you, as a C9000 owner, that I am completely satisfied with it -- and like you, I am very fussy about making the right purchase. I don't regret buying it at all.



Exact same sentiment here for my BC900 purchase :twothumbs

I am a happy user of the 1000mAh mode on my BC900. I routinely charge Eneloops at that rate with no problem.

<broken record mode>The charger does in fact heat up and so do the cells at this charge rate. I use a small desktop fan blowing on the charger and everything stays nice and cool. Hardly any heat at all. The fan is not necessary, but it gives me peace of mind to know charger and cells are staying cool.</broken record mode>

I sometimes wish I had bought the C9000 for its break-in mode, but honestly the BC900 has been a wonderful investment. I don't regret the purchase at all. Plus, there's the carrying case and small form factor that make it great for traveling.

Sounds like you need both :devil:


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## bp044 (Dec 2, 2008)

N162E said:


> Nothing at all. These new LSD cells are a whole different animal than the older conventional HSD cells. I have several of both chargers, they are both excellent, they both do the job very well. I favor the The LaCrosse chargers for charging because they terminate better at lower rates and do not need top off time at the end of charge to get a full charge.


Other posters have expressed concerns about the LaCrosse heating the cells. Have you encountered ths problem. I would not bother with a fan.
I would gladly spend the extra money for the Maha C-9000 if it had any advantages over the LaCrosse besides the ability to form. Does the LaCrosse have a lighted display ? I am still undecided about which one to buy.


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## Bones (Dec 2, 2008)

N162E said:


> ...
> I favor the The LaCrosse chargers for charging because they terminate better at lower rates and do not need top off time at the end of charge to get a full charge.



It is my understanding that the current version of the MH-C9000 actually terminates more reliably than the BC-900 at virtually any charge rate.

In fact, did we not establish some time ago that your MH-C9000 is not the revised version, making your observations in this regard atypical. Especially since the version you are speaking about only shipped for the first few months of 2006?


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## Black Rose (Dec 2, 2008)




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## N162E (Dec 2, 2008)

Bones said:


> It is my understanding that the current version of the MH-C9000 actually terminates more reliably than the BC-900 at virtually any charge rate.
> 
> In fact, did we not establish some time ago that your MH-C9000 is not the revised version, making your observations in this regard atypical. Especially since the version you are speaking about only shipped for the first few months of 2006?


Thats a yes and no answer. As I understand it if the C-9000 does not sense delta by a certain voltage it will terminate whether the charge is complete or not. No one has claimed that the C-9000 will reliably sense dv at low rates <700ma. 

The BC-900 seems to more reliably sense dv at any rate from 200ma up. The BC-900 charges at full speed right up to termination whereby the C-9000 will slow down at its preset voltage, less current = less heat. No mystery here.

Makes me kind of wonder if the battery manufacturers suggest higher rates to create a more noticeable dv to cover the inability of poorly designed chargers to more easily recognize the dv. I personally like less heat and can spare the time. A 200 0r 500ma rate with the BC-900 genarates very little heat, fully charges the cells and terminates every time.

I am using only LSD cells. I recycled all of my older HSD cells. 

A couple of years ago I actually watched for dv signals at end of charge. As I recall dv was pretty noticeable at all rates.

I've tried the break in charges, charged lsd cells out of the package and even used some of them right out of the package. With the newer LSD cell I really see hardly any difference in capacity and after a few cycles through regular use no difference. I base my results on discharges performed on my C-9000s and West Mountain CBA.

These are my conclusions. I have not let scientific fact, long and laborous testing or carefully kept records get in my way.


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## Bonky (Dec 3, 2008)

If you're between the 900 and the 700, get the 900. The extra goodies are worth the $5. The LaCross batteries are good. Not great, but good. The "2600" mah AAs are about 2450. The "1000" mah AAAs are about 850. Work fine.

& I didn't think I'd use the adapters either but now that I have 'em I've used 'em a couple of times. The little case/bag it comes with is very good.

So yes it's worth the extra $5.


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## Stereodude (Dec 3, 2008)

The included cells with the BC-900 are garbage so I wouldn't even consider them. Just wait for a better price on the BC-700. I bought one from Amazon for $24.99 on 11/28/08.


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## Stereodude (Dec 3, 2008)

Lite_me said:


> I don't understand why you're doing it this way. You can place all 4 batteries in the charger first, and then choose the charge rate. It applies it to all the batteries at once. At least that's the way I do it. You're making it more complicated than need be.


How do you do that? I've never been able to do that. My BC-900 likes to reset on the 3rd or 4th cell, so it drives me nuts having to put in a battery at a time, and set each one up again.


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## N162E (Dec 3, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> The included cells with the BC-900 are garbage so I wouldn't even consider them. Just wait for a better price on the BC-700. I bought one from Amazon for $24.99 on 11/28/08.


+1


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## N162E (Dec 3, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> How do you do that? I've never been able to do that. My BC-900 likes to reset on the 3rd or 4th cell, so it drives me nuts having to put in a battery at a time, and set each one up again.


Press them in all at once and press the current button to select the rate. They all need to be in to do this.


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## Lite_me (Dec 3, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> How do you do that? I've never been able to do that. My BC-900 likes to reset on the 3rd or 4th cell, so it drives me nuts having to put in a battery at a time, and set each one up again.





N162E said:


> Press them in all at once and press the current button to select the rate. They all need to be in to do this.


I've never had to do it this way but sure it'd work the same or better than the way I've done it. I just push them in one at a time in a speedy fashion and then hit(hold) the Mode button or Current button to set. It sets them all for ..whatever you choose, at once.


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## Bonky (Dec 3, 2008)

N162E said:


> +1



-1 

The cells are fine. Not great, but worth the $5.


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## crofty (Dec 3, 2008)

Didn`t see it mentioned that the BC-900 discharges to 0.9v and the C-9000 to 1.0v. Someone else will have to fill in the significance of this, if any, I`m not too sure but thought it worth a mention.

I own a BC-700 and it`s fine but after using it for a while I look at the BC-900/C-9000 and can justify owning all three. Hopefully someone brings out a charger that combines all their individual advantages before that happens :naughty:

Given the choice between the 700 and 900 now, I`d go for the 900 because of the higher charge rate, the goodies and the minimal price difference.


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## moldyoldy (Dec 3, 2008)

crofty said:


> Didn`t see it mentioned that the BC-900 discharges to 0.9v and the C-9000 to 1.0v. Someone else will have to fill in the significance of this, if any, I`m not too sure but thought it worth a mention.
> 
> <snip>



Odd, I seem to recall that my C9000 (0G0KA) showed 0.9 volts during a Refresh/Analyze test. not completely sure though. The BC-900 does discharge down to 0.9v.

As for the BC-900 vs the C9000, hmmm, the C9000 has the advantage of a larger cradle to minimize cross-cell heating, but the BC-900 (v33) is compact and far more likely to be packed and travel with me. The primary irritation with the BC-900 is when I want to run a discharge of a cell to check remaining capacity with NO charging. The BC-900 has to be watched to catch the switch from discharge to charge, although anytime the cell voltage is below 1.0v, the capacity indicated is pretty close. The C9000 a simple discharge as one of the selectable modes. 

A minor advantage is that the BC-900 can initiate a charge of 4 cells all at once with selectable charge rate for all cells at once, no fussing with channels. The catch is that once a charge rate is selected, any later insertions are limited to using that charge rate or less. Otherwise pull the cell that is limiting the charge rate, insert the cell and set the higher rate, then reinsert the lower rate cells.


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## crofty (Dec 3, 2008)

moldyoldy said:


> Odd, I seem to recall that my C9000 (0G0KA) showed 0.9 volts during a Refresh/Analyze test. not completely sure though. The BC-900 does discharge down to 0.9v.


I`m just going by the pdf.


> Discharge Termination: Voltage 1.00V


It`s possible they lowered it I guess, or maybe it`s only 1v in the discharge mode and .9 in the others.


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## Mr Happy (Dec 3, 2008)

I don't remember for sure, but I think my C9000 discharges down to 0.9 V. It's possible the user guide is less current than the hardware. The documentation is always the last thing to get updated when design changes are made...


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## Black Rose (Dec 3, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I don't remember for sure, but I think my C9000 discharges down to 0.9 V.


I'm pretty sure mine does as well.



> The documentation is always the last thing to get updated when design changes are made...


As a software designer/developer, I can agree with that statement


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## FrontRanger (Dec 3, 2008)

N162E said:


> Press them in all at once and press the current button to select the rate. They all need to be in to do this.


 
I do not own a BC-900, but... would it not be even easier to first insert all four cells, and then plug in the charger?


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## geek4christ (Dec 3, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> As a software designer/developer, I can agree with that statement



What documentation? 

I have a saying a work that I'm constantly having to tell people: The documentation lies, the code doesn't...so what does the _code_ say


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## SilverFox (Dec 4, 2008)

Hello Crofty,

The initial C9000 discharged to 1.0 volts. After some issues involving charge termination at lower current rates, the charger was "improved." One of the improvements involved changing the discharge termination voltage from 1.0 volts down to 0.9 volts. All of the chargers produced after the first initial batch discharge down to 0.9 volts.

Tom


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## crofty (Dec 4, 2008)

I agree documents are often neglected.

Thanks for clearing that up SilverFox.


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## NA8 (Dec 4, 2008)

I've had the BC900. I was unlucky and had one that had multiple problems. When it worked it was nice. I got tired of the issues and bought a Maha MH-C808M which has 8 bays and does AAA through D cells. Simple. Reliable. LSD NiMH C&D cells work well for Malkoff dropins with Maglites. Worth every penny.


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 5, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> How do you do that? I've never been able to do that. My BC-900 likes to reset on the 3rd or 4th cell, so it drives me nuts having to put in a battery at a time, and set each one up again.


 
It sounds like you are experiencing the microprocessor glitch, caused by the poorly filtered power supply included with the charger. I have added filter caps to the circuit board on my three BC-900's, and have never had the unit freeze or reset since. If yours resets after inserting the third or fourth cell, or if you insert four, and hold mode or charge rate, but it does not respond on all four channels, simply unplug the wall wart until the display goes blank, reconnect the power and wait for it to initialize, then continue to change mode or charge rate. Or, just insert the four cells first, then plug the charger in. Unplugging the unit resets the microprocessor.


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## LightScene (Jan 4, 2009)

SilverFox said:


> If I remember correctly, the melt downs occurred when charging at the default 200 mA rate.


Nice to know. But if you have a momentary power fail, the unit will reset itself to 200 mA. If you aren't home or aren't aware of the reset, then your unit becomes subject to melt-down.

The most recent melt-down reported on Amazon seems to be Feb 2008.

Have there been any changes to the BC-900 V35 that would prevent it from having melt-downs?


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## SilverFox (Jan 4, 2009)

Hello LightScene,

For the record, I have a V33 unit that has not melted down. However, I never charge at 200 mA, but mostly at 1000 - 1500 mA. I always closely attend to the charge when using this charger and have it set up on a fire resistant surface.

Speculation has it that the reason for the melt down was a component operating at the ragged edge of its advertised specification. If one of these components came in a little under spec, it would be prone to failure. When this component failed shorted, it shut off any termination signal input and put the charger into charging at maximum charge rate mode. This resulted in the charger melt downs. If the component failed open, the charger would simply stop working.

This speculation was brought forth by an Electrical Engineer familar with battery charging circuits, but it remains a speculation. LaCrosse calls the charger failures that resulted in melting down as not significant and accepts them as an acceptable rate of failure for this product.

V34 had a change in the cell temperature maximum cut off, and I am not sure what changes have been done to V35.

Overall, many people have had good experiences with this charger. I think a little extra care when using it will go a long way to insuring that if something goes wrong the damage will be minimized.

Tom


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## LightScene (Jan 4, 2009)

Thanks for your timely reply. I was indeed in decision making mode. After much reading and consideration and re-reading I decided to go with the:

MAHA MH-C9000 over the BC-900 because:
1) Higher quality components
2) Better customer service - La Crosse CS is unresponsive and evasive
3) No melt-downs
4) 3 year warranty vs 1 year
5) Better feature set
6) Approximately the same price ($46 shipped) without the so-so batteries

Now for my contribution to the group. 
You can always get a 5% discount at Thomasdistributing by starting at this link http://www.thomasdistributing.com/sd


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## StandardBattery (Jan 4, 2009)

I have comments and questions. I have all 3 chargers (BC-700/BC-900/MH-C9000), I like them, but I need to use the C9000 much more before commenting on it. I got the BC-700 when people were having issues with the BC-900, I like it. I charge a lot at 200mA (eneloops), even though people here recommend higher. These cell are used in my wireless mice. And I get a significant increase (~50%) in runtime if I use 200mA vs 500mA charge. My tests though are not completely scientific, but without being able to do more tests and spend much more time with it I've settled on 200mA. The BC-700 is idea for that. I've read before that the ideal charge rate could be related to the expected discharge rate, but I have no idea if this theory is still considered valid, or if it explains my 200ma/500mA test results. My BC-700 has never failed to terminate.

So after that I got the BC-900 (x2), seems to work well. *Question: *when I power it up it say 35 34 -- 35, how does one decode that? Which one is the Firmware revision, and what are the others? The current package deal on the BC-900 is very nice.

Just recently got the MH-C9000, I've had good luck with MaHa stuff in the past so thought I'd try it. It's quite a bit bigger, but quite sharp and professional looking. With the recent sale price in the Marketplace and at TD, it's certainly worth checking out. I don't think one would be disappointed with it, unless they wanted to totally simple charger like those packaged with the eneloops and such. Like the Lacrosse chargers, it's an analyzer, conditioner, and charger, so it's going to be a bit more complex. From what I understand the C9000 now terminates properly but to get the cells to their max capacity you have to leave them sit in the charger a while, after they show green. This is just info I've picked up from the short amount of time I've been able to spend in this forum, so I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I think the most important element in a happy rechargeable setup is eneloops, and any one of several fine chargers. If you have specific requirements for C or D cells, then one has to choose more carefully.

Happy Trails!


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## StandardBattery (Jan 4, 2009)

LightScene said:


> *...* I decided to go with the:
> 
> MAHA MH-C9000 over the BC-900 because: *...*


:thumbsup:
I believe you will be very happy, as most people here are.


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## SilverFox (Jan 5, 2009)

Hello StandardBattery,

I believe the first two numbers are a code for the temperature the two temperature sensors are reading. The third number is the version number.

To verify this you can put your finger on one of the temperature sensor bands and warm it up for 30 - 60 seconds before plugging the unit in, then notice if one of the numbers is higher than the other, and if that number corresponds to the one you warmed up.

It is OK to charge at low rates, but just because the charger turns off does not mean that it properly terminates. If you want to charge at low rates, set a timer and use it as a back up to the chargers termination. I would actually expect more problems charging at 500 mA than 200 mA as far as getting a full charge, but 50% seems like a lot of difference.

If you ever find the time, it would be interesting to see what the actual difference is between charging at 200 mA and 500 mA on your charger.

Tom


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## Bonky (Jan 5, 2009)

I've read all the meltdown stories on Amazon and other sites, and it appears the odds of it happening to anyone reading this are about the same as San Diego winning the Superbowl.


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## Bobo The Bear (Jan 5, 2009)

StandardBattery said:


> So after that I got the BC-900 (x2), seems to work well. *Question: *when I power it up it say 35 34 -- 35, how does one decode that? Which one is the Firmware revision, and what are the others? The current package deal on the BC-900 is very nice.
> Happy Trails!



I can confirm the last 2 digits are the firmware version, in your case, v35. I have the same one and I think this info is in the manual.

If I had to choose between the BC700 and BC900, I'd recommend the BC900. The extras are fluff but they're useful extras.

If/when I need to buy another charger, I'll probably try the MAHA C9000 since it's dropped to $40 or so, but I love my BC900.


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## StandardBattery (Jan 6, 2009)

SilverFox said:


> I believe the first two numbers are a code for the temperature the two temperature sensors are reading. The third number is the version number.
> *...*
> It is OK to charge at low rates, but just because the charger turns off does not mean that it properly terminates.
> *...*
> ...


Thanks for the info, and thanks to Bobo too. I think I should go back and read that manual again.

_"properly terminates",_ I'm sure some people, especially those making chargers, might have a few different interpretations of _'properly'_, but that brings up a very valid point and a very good enhancement idea. *Why don't any of the chargers have an icon or some indication that tells us how the charge was terminated? *Seems like since they are all offering several different triggers, it would be sensible to let one know what happened. This way if you were not babysitting the charger, you might notice later that the charge was terminated by temperature... this would be a clear sign to check those cells out. Maybe I need to read the manual, seems like something so obvious.

It might be possible to do a more controlled test. What I've been doing in the past is recording in my electronic calendar task list, when I replace the cells and when they are exhausted. Then I was resetting the date, and a reminder, when I recharged the cells again. So in this case it was the exact same cells, exact same device, and approx 10 or so cycles. Unfortunately the cells last quite a long time in the mouse generally almost 3 months. The usage obviously would not be entirely consistent but should average about the same. I do this on 2 computers, but one much more accurately than the other. Only 1 was tested with 500mA rate charge. In a month or 2 I might be able to start a more scientific test that includes measured voltages and such... but it does take a while for the actual usage to run and I like real-world rather than simulated discharge.

I love LSD, they have revived the NiMH cell, and made some of this testing much more exciting.


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## f22shift (Jan 6, 2009)

LightScene said:


> Thanks for your timely reply. I was indeed in decision making mode. After much reading and consideration and re-reading I decided to go with the:
> 
> MAHA MH-C9000 over the BC-900 because:
> 1) Higher quality components
> ...


 
smart choice. i think all those factors are true.

my bc900 just crapped out and just out of warranty. it shows 'full' on slot 4 regardless of what's in there with a voltage of "1.77v" :shrug:
now the other slots are locked in the 200ma charge rate.

the la crosse cs is unresponsive. i've been waiting and waiting for a response. looks like it'll end up in the dumpster.:mecry:

at the prices the c9000 have been going nowadays, it's an easy choice.
booo lacrosse :thumbsdow


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## NightMoves (Jan 7, 2009)

On my 5 year old Maha MH-C204F charger, there is a female connector on the DC wall wart that plugs into a tiny male pin. I have to wiggle the connector a lot to get it to make electrical contact. The problem seems to be that the male pin is too tiny and short. 

Is there also a tiny male pin connector on the charger body of the Maha MH-C9000? What about the connector on the LaCrosse BC900? I hate wall warts. :mecry:


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## Mr Happy (Jan 7, 2009)

Do you definitely have the matching power supply for the charger? 

What you describe is a standard DC power jack, but there are many different sizes of these, with wider and narrower outside diameters on the plug, and wider and narrower pins that fit on the inside of the plug. There also should be a strong spring that holds the outside of the plug and secures it in place. Is this spring operating?

Generally speaking those DC power jacks work fine, and what you probably have is an isolated case of failure. You should not worry too much about the problem repeating in other chargers.


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## NightMoves (Jan 7, 2009)

Mr. Happy: Yes, I have the original matching power supply for my old Maha MH-C204F charger. The female connector from the charger is one sixteenth of an inch in diameter and one quarter of an inch long. The male pin on the charger fits inside the one sixteenth inch diameter connector. Years of use may have loosened the connection. I need a new charger and I hope to avoid this problem in the future. So, could someone please measure the size of the connector and pin on their BC900 or MH C-9000 and report the dimensions here? Thanks.


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## Mr Happy (Jan 7, 2009)

NightMoves said:


> So, could someone please measure the size of the connector and pin on their BC900 or MH C-9000 and report the dimensions here? Thanks.


I could, but it would be sort of pointless. From a sample of half a dozen different devices, they all seem to be different. The manufacturers seem to want to avoid you plugging the wrong power supply into the wrong device.

I can tell you that I have a C9000 and the plug makes a firm and secure connection into the socket. I have never experienced a loose connection or an interrupted electrical supply with it.


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## bob_ninja (Jan 8, 2009)

I have both and really don't see them as competition to each other. Actually they complement each other well.

BC900
Good
- nice simple display (all 4 slots)
- quick programming (all 4 bays)
- good low charge rate performance
- accepts sub-optimal cells
Bad
- tight space, poor heat dissipation
- poor high charge rate performance (heat)
- quality (missed termination issues)

Maha 90000:
Good
- excellent analysis modes (cycle, discharge, etc)
- great spacing, good higher charge rate (cool)
- nice display for individual cell stats, back lighting]
Bad
- programming (individual slots)
- quick overview of all slots (takes time)

Therefore, BC900 is great for mundane bulk charging including older cells when not in a hurry. I just dislike heat, especially as it nears end of charge (later termination than Maha, Maha is gentler)

Maha is great for analysis, conditioning, break-in, etc. In essence, for individual cell care. Also when in a hurry prefer Maha's cooler running higher charge rates. So really they work together very well, both for different purposes.

As for missed termination, really I am always present. You can generally find a time when you are home for a few hours to be able to check on your chargers. That goes for any charger, even Maha. Of course, longer running analysis is a different matter and I would do those the "safer" charger - Maha.


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