# Hellfire?



## Crenshaw (Nov 22, 2007)

Ive been wondering, why does the hellfire cost $7k?
and its got an output of 3000 lumens...fairly normal by HID standards isnt it?

Im guessing its the extra build quality, but $6000 odd worth of it? thats got to be one hell of a light...

also something i found irresistably funny..
*SureFire HellFighter Heavy Gun Spotlight ( HellFire HF M2 HB-240B )*

Product SKU: FS-FL-HB-240B
UPC: 825494002374
Regular Price: $7,599.00Our Price: $6,499.00
You Save: $1,100.00 (14.48%)</B>


" you save 1100 dollars!" .....yay......

Crenshaw


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## quatra2008 (Nov 22, 2007)

i duno if any light is worth the price of car. that is normal output for a hid torch and as for the price being and indication of build quality my surefire 6p defender broke after ten minutes of use.


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## scottaw (Nov 22, 2007)

The hellfire is literally built like a tank. It's made to be mounted on one. I'm personally willing to pay a bit more money for something when im sure my life will depend on it. But as far as a regular joe, you probably don't need a light that over-built. But if it keeps our boys safe....im in.


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## LightJaguar (Nov 22, 2007)

I would not be surprised if that light was made specifically to be sold to the US military. Surefire probably has some sort of contract with them and overcharges for it. Government employees for the most part don’t care how much of the Taxpayers money they waste. Also as far as I know the Department of Defense mostly buys American made equipment for the military. Even if some Chinese manufacturer came up with a better, cheaper light, the US military will keep on buying US made equipment. From a military point of view it makes perfect sense to me.


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## Crenshaw (Nov 22, 2007)

lol, i think "built like a tank" is going to become the new "tactical"

anyway, yeah a regular joe wont need it, was just wondering.
That being said, i'm a firm supporter of surefire...and Fenix 

quatra, your 6p broke?!? in what sense? and you know you can send it back to surefire and get them to fix it right?

Crenshaw


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## Illum (Nov 22, 2007)

I think its the name brand that attributes to the fixed cost...military or not



_EDITED: haha... _


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## MikeLip (Nov 22, 2007)

Heh - have you ever BUILT anything for the military? I have. I worked on the MK48 and later the MK50 torpedo projects for 20 years at Westinghouse, Naval Systems Division. The military dictates what goes into your product, where you can buy it from, where you can buy your tools end equipment, endless paperwork and QC testing, buyoffs, inspections, qualification, on and on. So yeah, mil stuff is expensive. It may not be cutting edge either (torpedo hardware is ANCIENT tech by todays standards). But it generally works when you need it to!

I'm sure the Hellfire system has gone through the mil standards wringer, which explains the cost.


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## tvodrd (Nov 25, 2007)

Hellfire on a Ma deuce: (Surefire's M2HB!)






Full res here.

Larry


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## MikeLip (Nov 25, 2007)

I'd like to see that bad boy lit up!


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## tvodrd (Nov 25, 2007)

MikeLip said:


> I'd like to see that bad boy lit up!



Me too, but not from _down range!_  PK had one running, pointed at the ceiling for _ambience,_ for the duration of the CPF SHOT Party early this year. I suspect "beamshots" can be found.  I snagged the pic with permission at the show.

Larry


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## Kiessling (Nov 26, 2007)

As I have a déjà-vu again regarding that discussion, I'll quote something that I found very interesting:



> _ its like paying $630 for a pair of professionally-torn jeans compared to buying an un-torn, brand new pair down at TJMax for $30...and theres still friends i know that spend that much and keep the tag on it:shakehead
> yet they criticize me for spending $200 on a flashlight_



So ... looking at that quote, I am starting to think of me. I am fat. A TJMax for $30 won't fit me. Makes me look even less acceptable. So I go to that expensive store and buy those expensive jeans for $200 or more. Because they fit. Because for my mission - to be as handsome as possible :naughty: - nothing else will do. I need those expensive jeans even if you do not and even if your mission was different to mine. Different needs, different tools.

bernie


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## rizky_p (Nov 26, 2007)

It depends on which perspectives you are looking from. Considering the price of a brand new Tank, hellfire only cost a fractions of the total cost of the Tank.


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## KevinL (Nov 26, 2007)

Didn't all of you get that memo from the State Bureau of Centralized Economic Pricing for the Betterment of the Common People, Flashlights Price Control Department that allowed Surefire to sell this bourgeoisie flashlight to the hoi polloi at such an exorbitant price? 

Oh wait, said bureau does not exist! Aren't y'all glad we live in a free economy now 

It's the capitalist economy. Buy or buy not: there is no WHY!!!


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## Illum (Nov 27, 2007)

Kiessling said:


> As I have a déjà-vu again regarding that discussion, I'll quote something that I found very interesting




well, I suppose in a way it can be seen as offensive....I just find it quite humorous that I see Jeans marked in 2 digit prices where I buy my $20 checkered shirts and going to the mall and saw distinctively similar [but torn] jeans selling at 3 digit prices...:duh2:
I'll edit it


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## jrv (Nov 28, 2007)

Crenshaw said:


> Im guessing its the extra build quality, but $6000 odd worth of it? thats got to be one hell of a light...
> 
> also something i found irresistably funny..
> *SureFire HellFighter Heavy Gun Spotlight ( HellFire HF M2 HB-240B )*


The lumen output probably costs $500. It's the rest - especially that "Heavy Gun" part but also MILSPEC, wide thermal operating range, etc - that's expensive.

MILSPEC isn't just a matter of testing the light to meet certain requirements. All components have to be MILSPEC, which means their innards have to be MILSPEC ... you get the idea. You can't buy stuff off the shelf that way. For example the ballast may well be custom, using a standard ballast design but replacing every resistor, capacitor etc with a MILSPEC equivalent. That gets Real Expensive, Really Fast.

Despite the "No Filament To Break!" marketing hype I've personally found HIDs to be a bit fragile in the past. Making one rugged, especially able to withstand heavy machine gun fire, probably isn't easy.


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## XeRay (Nov 28, 2007)

jrv said:


> The lumen output probably costs $500. It's the rest - especially that "Heavy Gun" part but also MILSPEC, wide thermal operating range, etc - that's expensive.
> 
> MILSPEC isn't just a matter of testing the light to meet certain requirements. All components have to be MILSPEC, which means their innards have to be MILSPEC ... you get the idea. You can't buy stuff off the shelf that way. For example the ballast may well be custom, using a standard ballast design but replacing every resistor, capacitor etc with a MILSPEC equivalent. That gets Real Expensive, Really Fast.
> 
> Despite the "No Filament To Break!" marketing hype I've personally found HIDs to be a bit fragile in the past. Making one rugged, especially able to withstand heavy machine gun fire, probably isn't easy.


 
Sorry to contradict. My Philips rep sells them standard off the shelf D1S bulbs and ballasts. 35 watt units the same as automotive. They are not special made but standard ballasts rated for 105 C with proper components inside. All newer Philips ballasts use 105 C components. From Philips with some volume The ballast and bulb combination is not more than $200.00 cost to Surefire. The Automotive HID stuff is NOT fragile at all. We also sell for military against Surefire. Our stuff has been tested on a 50 cal simulator for 50,000 rounds while on with no failure or problems. We make our own ballast but buy D1S bulbs from Philips. The exact same bulb used in the Hellfighter.


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## 65535 (Nov 28, 2007)

I hate to open a can of worms, but it's expensive because it's surefire, it will go above and beyond what is expected of a gun mounted light was ever made to do, but Surefire has a reputation, and an excellent returned merchandise moto. For personal use Xeray is top notch, but our government will buy whatever there is with little regard to price.


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## XeRay (Nov 29, 2007)

We don't sell the XeRay to the Military, we sell a gunmountable light and ship 40 units a month, every month for the last 10 months which are mounted on 50 caliber guns on General Dynamics Abrams Tanks. We have 5 more months to go and the contract will likely be extended.


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## EVAN_TAD (Dec 1, 2007)

Everybody wants what they can't have. I wouldn't worry about the price until I have a M2HB to mount the light on.


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## tvodrd (Dec 3, 2007)

The mount/attachment assembly to fit the M2HB was a work of mechanical art, and pk had one at the party, which I checked out. I presume it is sold separately, and also sure we don't want to know for how much! 

Larry


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## HIDSGT (Dec 3, 2007)

The price is a joke! Period! Just like when Plasma's came out a few years back. A top of the line Plasma priced between $7000.00 and $15,000.00. Now they are $2,500.00 3 years later. Anyone who pays $6,000.00 for a Hellfire needs to get his head examined:thinking:. I'm all for top of the line equipment but that is a Military price and anyone who pays that much for a light that will be outperformed in 6 months for a 1/4 of the price is smoking too much crack! Surefire makes great products but give us all a break...


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## Kiessling (Dec 4, 2007)

HIDSGT said:


> Anyone who pays $6,000.00 for a Hellfire needs to get his head examined:thinking:



Please quit using insults and try some arguments instead. Insulting posting style is not permitted on CPF. Thanx 

I'd like to ask the soldier behind the big bad gun where the light is mounted. Maybe his opinion is worth more than ours? Maybe he has other criteria than we have? I'd not buy this light, but then again, I am not going to war either.

bernie


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## jrv (Dec 5, 2007)

XeRay said:


> They are not special made but standard ballasts rated for 105 C with proper components inside. (...) Our stuff has been tested on a 50 cal simulator for 50,000 rounds while on with no failure or problems. We make our own ballast but buy D1S bulbs from Philips. The exact same bulb used in the Hellfighter.


Are we going to see a "Xeray toss" video any time soon? :devil:

That's pretty good shock mounting. Wiring, solder joints, connectors - I would expect problems with stock stuff in "Shake & Bake" testing unless it was way overbuilt.

In WW2 they fired vacuum tubes in artillery shells but electronics usually don't like that sort of thing.

When I say "fragile" I mean 2-3 foot drops onto concrete, which is really pretty harsh. I've always assumed it's been wiring or connectors within the ballast or connecting the bulb that fail (or batteries, if it has them).


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