# Daylight visible LED vest?



## RCM3221 (Feb 13, 2013)

Hello CPF denizens! I just joined the forum in hopes that the kind people here would be able and willing to give me advice on a potential project. I did search the forum before making this post but what info I found was old and or way over my head. I also want to make it clear that I have NO idea what I am doing. Though I am mechanically minded, electricity and circuitry turn my brain to mush.

What I want to do is make a motorcycle safety vest that uses daylight visible LEDs or LED arrays on each shoulder. I figured that I should start by finding out if there are actually any LEDs that would fit the bill. I am thinking green LEDs as they are supposed to be the most visible to the human eye. I have been scouring the internet for high output LEDs but I can’t seem to find any pictures/videos that show LEDs in daylight at a distance. In addition to brightness, a wide angle of visibility is also important. Something like a Phlatlight would be great except for the giant heat sink that would undoubtedly be needed.

As I will be on my motorcycle while using this magic garment, I may be able to power it from the bikes “alternator.”

If anyone has thoughts or advice on where to start, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks


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## MikeAusC (Feb 14, 2013)

The Daytime Running lights on modern cars are very visible in daylight and are all white LEDs. 

I would just use 1 watt LEDs.


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## Gregozedobe (Feb 14, 2013)

Welcome to CPF.

While possible, I think you would need to be very careful with colour selection - there are strict rules in most countries about what colour lights can be for a good reason. If you start off thinking about white at the front, amber on the side and red at the back you will be less likely to attract unwanted attention from traffic police, and I'd be very conservative about intensity levels at night.

Honestly, I think a front DRL mounted high on your bike plus very brightly coloured jacket, helmet and gloves (preferably single colours, not patterns - maybe flouro yellow or green) would be more practical for daytime visibility and less likely to get you in trouble.

If you want to pursue it further, the best gurus are probably found here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?87-Automotive-Motorcycles-Included


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## uk_caver (Feb 14, 2013)

More light doesn't always make you more visible, at least in the daytime.

In situations where a dark object is seen against a light sky, adding light can sometimes make it harder to see.
Running lights on cars are at least low down, where the vehicle is least likely to be a silhouette.
Lights high up on a motorcyclist may have a greater risk of being an issue, even if legal.


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## Optical Inferno (Feb 14, 2013)

As Grego said, this is likely an illegal thing to do despite being a very good idea. You are more likely to get pulled over for wearing something like this. Your best bet would be to don some retro-reflective material or look at getting a custom jacket and pants made with retro-reflective material.


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## RCM3221 (Feb 14, 2013)

Thank you for your responses. I already do my best to wear Hi-Hiz gear and retro reflective items but it is amazing how people can still not see you. I would like to go above and beyond what most bikers do. 

As far as the legal implications, I have read through the vehicle codes and have not found anything that would restrict their use if done properly. As bikes are allowed to have up to 3 headlights, even if an officer decided body mounted forward facing lights were headlights, I should still be legal eagle. As far as color goes, there are restrictions on where you can place red, blue, and amber lights, but nothing about green lights. I however am not however against using white, amber and red as Gregozodobe suggested if law enforcement says green is a no go. There also is a provision that you cant have anything "dazzling," and in most cases the lights can not blink or flash.

As far making a silhouette goes, I was planning on mounting the lights on my shoulder where a rifle butt would go so that my body provides a contrast to the lights. I also agree that having extremely bright lights would be dangerous at night and if all works out, I would want to ad a lights sensor to dim the lights the darker it got. This is just a proof of concept so that can come later.

In addition, If I can make a prototype/proof of concept, I could take it to the police and governor's advisory board for motorcycle safety and see what they have to say about it.

Loving the help and the advice so far, thank you.


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## 2xTrinity (Feb 14, 2013)

uk_caver said:


> More light doesn't always make you more visible, at least in the daytime.
> 
> In situations where a dark object is seen against a light sky, adding light can sometimes make it harder to see.
> Running lights on cars are at least low down, where the vehicle is least likely to be a silhouette.
> Lights high up on a motorcyclist may have a greater risk of being an issue, even if legal.



Around where I live I see a lot of motorcycles run modulators on their headlights in the daytime so that the intensity of the DRL is pulsating. This makes them a lot more noticeable from a distance. Out here in the desert the mirage/silhouette effect you described is fairly common so flickering or pulsating lights is a lot more noticeable than constant-on. 


This is a bit of a digression but I kinda wish that standard flashlights had a "modulated" mode (basically intensity ramps up and down in a sinusoidal fashion, but intensity never drops completely to zero) instead of useless disoriented strobe modes. That would be nice as a secondary light on my bicycle for getting noticed without giving oncoming drivers an epileptic seizure at the worst possible moment.


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## uk_caver (Feb 14, 2013)

Assuming the same frequencies were used, I'd wonder if sine-varying and square-wave lights with amplitudes adjusted to be equal in 'noticeability' would also tend to have equal 'capacity for triggering seizures' (or equal 'annoyingness')?

Possibly a bouncy/unbalanced* handlebar mount would be an alternative - I certainly get the feeling I notice vehicle lights a lot more when the light seems to be bouncing a little (typically motorbikes and some heavy vehicles).

(*as in 'vertical jolts set the light bouncing')


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## argleargle (Feb 14, 2013)

I recall reading a review on a couple attempts at powered safety vests. I haven't read about one that was visible enough. Perhaps the tech isn't quite ready yet?

Also, a near-universal safety vest color is orange. Just a few thoughts.


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## Steve K (Feb 15, 2013)

Interesting thread, and as a bicycle commuter, I share many of the concerns. I do have questions as to whether an illuminated vest is the answer though. In daylight, and at modest range (under 1/2 mile?), I think the fluorescent colored vests would be a better solution since they are illuminated by the sun, and it's hard to compete with the sun. At longer ranges in daylight, my observation is that any light is good and fluorescent colors aren't as visible (only because the object size is smaller), and a light on the vehicle is as effective as a light on the rider. 

My personal experience from bike commuting is that people/co-workers have commented favorably both on my use of safety green vests and jackets as well as running dynamo lights (homemade, of course  ) in the daytime. 

I also thought that someone was making powered safety vests, and thought that maybe that there might be some data on their effectiveness compared to unpowered vests. Looking at safety gear for construction workers, I see on one site that 210 unpowered vests are available, but no powered vests. 
http://www.fullsource.com/construction-safety-vests/

I do like the motorcycle headlights that are modulated. It does grab my attention! 

Maybe a good question is this... do you feel the need for more visibility on the highways and open roads, or in town with higher traffic density? My experience on a bicycle is that in town is worse, probably due to the higher vehicle density and the need to constantly be aware of approaching vehicles from the sides. I've wondered if I shouldn't be wearing a big flashing strobe on my helmet in order to be noticed (only kidding a little).


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## argleargle (Feb 15, 2013)

Ha! Steve, for some reason I pictured a guy casually bicycling through a town with a rotating red emergency light on the top of his bike helmet. 

I agree with the headlight modulation being more visible. The first time I saw this trick was on a 1960s American motorcycle, custom of course. My first thought was "wow, is that even legal?" It did grab my attention, though.


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## RCM3221 (Feb 15, 2013)

Modulated headlights are great but are really only useful if you are looking straight on at the bike. I am also concerned about being seen from other angles. For example, Motorcycles are often rear ended at a stop sign or light because their somehow hard to see, and at night because their one taillight can blend into the taillights of the car in front of them. Also while riding next to another vehicle on a multi-lane road. Going around a shaded mountain corner on a sunny day can also throw off your ability to see other vehicles. Unfortunately bikers and motorcyclists just arn't seen sometimes. When a person in a car or tuck hits a bike or motorcycle they all say the same thing- "I didn't see them." Sometimes they dont see you even when they look right at you. Neon gear does in fact help tremendously, but I am just hoping there is something further I can do. 

Lets say for argument that a lighted vest checks out legally, does anyone have any suggestions on what LEDs to use? MikeAusC suggested 1 Watters. Does anyone agree or disagree? What model from what company would be a good place to start? preferably something that does not require an additional heatsink, or one where the heatsink can be small and low profile.

Thanks Again


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## argleargle (Feb 15, 2013)

...maybe you could duct-tape some "Flare Alert LED Lighting" company LED safety beacons to a neon safety vest?

I won't provide a link as they sell them on their own website.


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## Steve K (Feb 15, 2013)

RCM3221 said:


> Lets say for argument that a lighted vest checks out legally, does anyone have any suggestions on what LEDs to use? MikeAusC suggested 1 Watters. Does anyone agree or disagree? What model from what company would be a good place to start? preferably something that does not require an additional heatsink, or one where the heatsink can be small and low profile.
> 
> Thanks Again



Well, my suggestion would be to look at some of the small battery powered clip-on lights made for bicycles. They are small, self contained, and usually designed to clip onto clothing. The downside is that they are usually have a fairly narrow beam pattern and need to be aimed towards whoever you want to see you. 

I've also used a battery powered xenon strobe called the Lightman for visibility. It strobes once per second, and does get your attention. I'd recommend the clear lens instead of colored lens for best light output.
http://www.lightmanstrobes.com/
There are similar devices for marine visibility applications. 
I'm assuming that someone(?) has made a LED equivalent that should be more energy efficient, but don't know of one. (wait.. Lightman says they have a LED version)

You could make something similar, but then have to worry about the details of designing a suitable pulsed power source, heatsinking (which is minimal for a very brief pulse), attachment method, waterproofing, etc. Not a problem if you have spare time and the inclination. Maybe buy a commercially built version, and then hotrod it as needed?

I've been thinking about building a white strobing light for my go-fast bicycle... the plan is to convert an old headlight. I'm struggling with the issue of finding a high current driver that can run off of two AA cells.


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## Optical Inferno (Feb 15, 2013)

I experimented with EL wire for a similar product to increse my visibility. Not very bright during the day, but pretty sweet at night. Looped the wire through any standard article of clothing and purchased an adjustable pulsating power supply. Used Amber/Yellow wire only as I didn't want any hassles from the fuzz...

Check with your local police department on the legality of such a vest before investing money. If they deem it completely illegal, then it would save you the money and time.


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## uk_caver (Feb 15, 2013)

RCM3221 said:


> Unfortunately bikers and motorcyclists just arn't seen sometimes. When a person in a car or tuck hits a bike or motorcycle they all say the same thing- "I didn't see them." Sometimes they dont see you even when they look right at you. Neon gear does in fact help tremendously, but I am just hoping there is something further I can do.


 I think sometimes they are seen, but not observed, as Sherlock Holmes might have said, and I get the feeling that perceived danger is one of the factors involved. I suspect that having a bike and choosing clothing colours as close as legally possible to what police bikers might use would have an effect out of proportion to any objective increase in visibility.


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