# 4sevens Maelstrom X10 Review with OTF lumens.



## ti-force (Jul 22, 2011)

I’ve got the new 4sevens Maelstrom X10 for review. This light was sent to me by 4sevens for review purposes, and this model is a production model.

Here are the specs for this light. Note that this info was taken from 4sevens’ website:
Dimensions:
Length = 5.6”
Body Diameter = 1.3”
Head Diameter = 1.8”
Weight without battery = 5.6 oz.
Battery = 1- 26650 Li-ion
Voltage Operating Range: 3v-4.2v
Two Levels of Output:
Low = 100 Lumens, 15hrs runtime
High = 640 Lumens, 1.8 hrs runtime


Some eye candy of the X10 :





































Here’s 4sevens newest iteration of their 26650 Li-ion battery. This battery was designed specifically for the X10, and should not be used in the S12 because of the higher current draw of the S12. However, if you already have a 26650 that works with the S12, then that battery should work fine in the X10, and like the S12, the battery and charger are sold separately from the light:










Now it’s time for some OTF lumen results that were taken using my homemade integrating sphere. I need to mention that the X10 has thermal regulation like the S12 has, so the lumen output of the light varies with temperature changes of the light. This was done to protect the light from overheating because of excessive heat created at higher drive levels. I had an S12 in my possession not too long ago. The S12 was sent to me by forum member ‘GotLumens?’. He graciously split the cost of shipping with me so we could do some testing on his S12. During the time I had his S12 I conducted the same type of testing that I’ve done with the X10.

 I do need to state that although I did try to repeat my testing on the X10 in the exact same manner as I did with the S12, this was not an exact, scientific experiment that I’ve done here, so please take my information for what it’s worth. If you’ve read my S12 testing thread then you’re familiar with those results, and the process used to gain those results. If not, here’s what I did. Since the lumen output of this light is directly affected by temperature of the light (because of thermal regulation), I’ve decided to test OTF lumens by using a freezer pack to test for the highest possible output, hand heat sinking, which is commonly used by many members on this forum, and one more method that I’m simply calling “no additional heat sinking”, which means I turned the light on, held it by its tail cap and let it run.

To give you a better idea of exactly how these lights were held for each different test, I’ve taken images of myself holding the actual light in each testing position and posted below. I didn’t take any images of the freezer pack because my thinking is that this method is pretty self explanatory . I will state that I wrapped the freezer pack with a small towel to keep my hand from freezing off while holding the freezer pack around the light, and to keep my hand from lowering the temperature of the freezer pack. Here are the images:


Edit: I didn't have any images available of the S12 that I've compared to with all my testing, but CPF member Bass was kind enough to share some of his gorgeous images that he's taken of his S12 so that I can post some images of an S12 in this thread. Thanks, Bass :thumbsup::



























This is the hand heat sinking method. I did alternate between both hands throughout my testing:













Here’s the no additional cooling method:














And now for my results. You will notice that there are two different charts for each test. One shows the OTF lumen output over a given amount of time, and the other shows the measured exterior temperature of the light taken during OTF lumen testing. For reference, I used an infrared thermometer to gather temperature of the light. The freezer pack measured 0 degrees F., and room temperature was 74 degrees F.





X10 vs S12 OTF Lumen Freezer Pack Test:








X10 vs S12 Freezer Pack Test Thermal Graph:








X10 vs S12 OTF Lumen Hand Heat Sinking Test:








X10 vs S12 Hand Heat Sinking Test Thermal Graph:








X10 vs S12 OTF Lumen No Additional Cooling Test:








X10 vs S12 No Additional Cooling Test Thermal Graph:








I also decided to test the X10 while holding the light as the user would normally hold it. Below are images of what I’m calling the “regular” holding position, followed by runtime OTF data. The light was still going strong 120 minutes into the runtime on high. I didn’t test the S12 in the “regular” position (wish I had, though), so these results cannot be directly compared to the S12 testing:



















I’ve also compiled all the data of each X10 OTF lumen testing session into one graph together, and I’ve also done the same for the thermal results:












And finally, I’ve posted a brief video on Youtube showing the mode operation of this light. Click here to view the video.


The beam of the X10 is definitely tighter than the S12, and going on memory it seems like it would out throw the S12. Unfortunately I don't have an S12 to directly compare to. I'll try my best to take some beam shots of this light against my garage door soon. I'll post here when I update.

Thanks for looking, and hopefully you enjoyed reading my data.


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## JermsMalibu (Jul 22, 2011)

Thanks for doing this ti-force! I already put in an order for one.  I'm glad to see that it stays pretty dang bright throughout the run.


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 22, 2011)

I've been waiting awhile for this review and it looks awesome! I just put an order in for it at goinggear. That's two lights today alone....what the H377 is wrong with me?!?

Looks like the X10 should stomp the S12 for throw.:devil:


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## bigchelis (Jul 22, 2011)

An another amazing reivew Ti-Force.

What is the 1M lux?

The graph and pictures are pretty good idea too. It lets the reader know exactly whats going on when you test. Thanks for all the work.
bigC


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## Got Lumens? (Jul 22, 2011)

Thank You Ti-Force.
An excellent review .
GL


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## GeoBruin (Jul 22, 2011)

The graphs seem to show exactly what you would expect given the use scenarios. Great methodology. Would love to see some lux numbers. I feel like the S12 actually throws better than some give it credit for and I'm guessing the X10 should out throw it handily. Reflector is about the same size as the TK35 no?


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## selfbuilt (Jul 22, 2011)

Interesting analysis ti-force, thanks for all the detailed cooling comparisons and write up. :thumbsup:

Hate to add to your work, but have you every tried using a cooling fan? I routinely do this in my testing, and know from limited temperature measurements that it cools better than hand-holding (but I doubt anywhere near as well as a cooling pack).

Looking at the output/runtime pattern on my X10 review, my cooling fan pattern seems closer to hand-holding in your results, but with less a dip in output (as suggested by my very crude lumen estimate conversion). It would be interesting to see how it directly compares to your other cooling methods.


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## badtziscool (Jul 22, 2011)

Awesome review! Seeing the output behavior from the graphs, I'm wondering if the S12 is worth the extra $30? Initial output by the S12 is greater but after thermal regulation, the output of both is about equal. What really surprised me though was the freezer-pack graph and its corresponding thermal graph. Even though the temperature measured on both lights are nearly the same throughout the test, the S12 output decreases at a faster rate. I wonder why that is.


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## 2many (Jul 23, 2011)

Great review! Thank you for your time and energy in getting this report done.

I've got an X10 on order from goinggear as well. Can't wait until it arrives.


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## PayBack (Jul 23, 2011)

Considering the battery supply for the S12 these days, I wouldn't touch the X10 with a 10 foot pole.


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 23, 2011)

PayBack said:


> Considering the battery supply for the S12 these days, I wouldn't touch the X10 with a 10 foot pole.



Who says you have to buy the 26650s that 4sevens sells? I plan to use the ones I buy from batteryspace....they are better performing cells as well (though unprotected if that matters to you.)

EDIT: I see that batteryspace is currently out of stock...but lighthound is not (they are the same cells.)


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## ti-force (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks for the kind words everyone; It's appreciated, and I'm glad you've found my review interesting .





bigchelis said:


> An another amazing reivew Ti-Force.
> 
> What is the 1M lux?
> 
> ...





GeoBruin said:


> The graphs seem to show exactly what you would expect given the use scenarios. Great methodology. Would love to see some lux numbers. I feel like the S12 actually throws better than some give it credit for and I'm guessing the X10 should out throw it handily. Reflector is about the same size as the TK35 no?


 

Thanks BigC and GeoBruin! I'll do my best to take lux measurements of the X10 soon. The problem is that I don't really have a good place to test @ 5 meters . GeoBruin, unfortunately I don't have a TK35, so I can't compare reflector size of the X10 to that of the TK35 for you.







selfbuilt said:


> Interesting analysis ti-force, thanks for all the detailed cooling comparisons and write up. :thumbsup:
> 
> Hate to add to your work, but have you every tried using a cooling fan? I routinely do this in my testing, and know from limited temperature measurements that it cools better than hand-holding (but I doubt anywhere near as well as a cooling pack).
> 
> Looking at the output/runtime pattern on my X10 review, my cooling fan pattern seems closer to hand-holding in your results, but with less a dip in output (as suggested by my very crude lumen estimate conversion). It would be interesting to see how it directly compares to your other cooling methods.


 

Thanks for the kind words, Selfbuilt. Using a fan while testing lights that are not thermally regulated is definitely a good idea, but my reasoning for the freezer pack method was simply to show what the light is capable of if you can keep it cool enough. The hand heat sinking method was done because it's commonly implemented during actual use by many here on the forum, and the 'no additional cooling' method was used to show the lower end of this lights output, and could easily represent the output of the light if someone where to sit the light on a stand, etc.,and use the light hands free, although I'm sure my two fingers were pulling some heat from the light during use so it's not exact. And the 'normal' mode is the mode I think most will be holding the light when in actual use, but unfortunately I didn't test the S12 using that method......

If I had more time I'd test this light using a fan, but I simply don't have time; at the moment I'm quickly falling behind on reviews of other lights that I've committed my time to.







badtziscool said:


> Awesome review! Seeing the output behavior from the graphs, I'm wondering if the S12 is worth the extra $30? Initial output by the S12 is greater but after thermal regulation, the output of both is about equal. What really surprised me though was the freezer-pack graph and its corresponding thermal graph. Even though the temperature measured on both lights are nearly the same throughout the test, the S12 output decreases at a faster rate. I wonder why that is.


 
Your question about the freezer pack method is a very good question, and I'll do my best to answer that for you. As I'm sure you're aware, both the S12 and X10 have thermal regulation (and current regulation). This works because the light is designed to deliver a set amount of current until the light reaches a predetermined temperature (usually well below the thermal limit of any component used in the light). When said temperature is reached, drive current to the emitter is reduced to gain a reduction in operating temperature. If you've noticed the spikes in some of my lumen graphs, that's what's happening at those points. The light throttles current back to cool the light, which in turn causes a slight drop in lumen output until the light's temperature is reduced enough to protect the light, then current is reapplied until it reaches the predetermined temperature again, then the light repeats the process all over again.

When using the freezer pack method, the light doesn't heat up enough to require a reduction in drive current to cool the light because the freezer pack is keeping the light below the predetermined cutout temperature. Because of this the lights driver delivers the max predetermined amount of current to the emitter. Consequently this causes the battery to deplete quicker because the light is consuming more energy from a source that has a limited amount of energy until it needs to be recharged. Now to explain the difference between both lights during the freezer pack method. As you know the S12 uses the SST-90 emitter and the X10 uses the new XM-L emitter. Well the XM-L is more efficient than the SST-90 emitter, therefore it produces more light output for a given, and equal amount of drive current, but it's limited to 3A max drive current while the SST-90 is limited to 8 or 9A of drive current if memory serves me correctly. These emitters can be, and have been driven harder by individuals who want the most light they can get from the emitter, but that's another topic for another thread.

Anyhow the SST-90 is being driven harder than the XM-L to produce its highest output. I believe I've read reports from individuals stating in the 5A range at max drive current, but I'm not certain about that. I do know that the XM-L is being driven at less than 3A drive current, and if I had to guess, I'd guess in the 2.6A range. Now even if the XM-L were driven at 2.5A and the SST-90 were driven at 5A (twice the current), you still couldn't guess that the XM-L light would run twice as long because it's more complicated than that because of emitter voltage forward differences between the two emitters (volts x amps = watts), and the higher the emitter voltage forward, the more energy it consumes from the battery and the quicker the battery will be depleted. So you would have to take voltage and current measurements simultaneously to actually calculate how much power or wattage each different emitter is consuming, but we don't really have to know that exactly because we know that the SST-90 is consuming more, and it shows by its drop in output on the lumen output graph.

So after that long, drawn out response ....haha..... the reason you see the S12 dropping in lumen output quicker than the X10 during the freezer pack method is because of the S12 depletes the battery quicker than the X10 does because they're both being driven at the max predetermined amount of drive current. So in the freezer pack method, the output is no longer limited or decreased because of temperature limitations, but because of battery capacity limitations. Both batteries (X10 only and S12 batteries) are very close in capacity, so the one that drains the battery capacity at a quicker rate will dim quicker than the other. Hope this is accurate, and helps you better understand what's going on. Sorry for the drawn out way of explaining....:tired:lol...


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## pjandyho (Jul 23, 2011)

PayBack said:


> Considering the battery supply for the S12 these days, I wouldn't touch the X10 with a 10 foot pole.


 
First, I want to thank ti-force for having once again done a very nice review of the X10. If not for the fact that I already have the S12, I would have bought it. Now, I have interest in the X10, but my interest is wavering between my wants and justification in buying one.

@PayBack, I am afraid I don't quite understand what you meant about the batteries. I am using the first green version for the S12 and haven't encountered any issues with the batteries. Granted, I did not run it for prolonged periods of time to notice any issues with them. Are there any reported issues with the batteries from 4Sevens? Why the newer blue batteries now? Please PM me to avoid dragging this thread into an off-topic exchange between us.


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## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 23, 2011)

Thanks Ti-force for dedicating all of your time in the review. It's so informative and will certainly help people decide whether or not they would like to buy this light. I just order an X10 to compare to my S12. But based on your graphs, reviews, and experience with 5 different S12s here is my opinion.

Buy an S12 if:
- You like a huge hot spot flood beam
- Plan to mod it by removing thermal regulation, burn in the LED and or direct drive it. 
- You like a more neutral/yellowish/slight greenish of the SST90. Of the 5 S12 I handle only 1 was truly cool white. All the S12s I handle tint and output varies. Some benefit greatly from direct drive and burn in to accept 7A current while others only reach 5A. On two S12 the light only pull 3.5A at the tail cap with fresh IMR. I had to burn in the LED and reconnect regulation to acquire 4.7A. The point is...SST-90s in the S12 varies greatly! 


Buy an X10 if/for: 
- More throw
- Battery Life
- Cree XML is efficient, less heat and less variations between LEDs tints and current intake
- If you don't like your X10 tint, modding it to a different tint such as neutral is cheaper and probably easier
- On thermal and current regulation with no mods at all. The X10 provide higher practical output.
- Runs cooler

Have mod questions for these Maelstroms?...PM me

Ti-Force: 
If you want to test the lumen output on my Direct Drive modded S12 just for kicks let me know...I can send you the light. You can also reconnect it back it to factory and do any side by side comparison if you would like.


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 23, 2011)

*"Ti-Force: 
If you want to test the lumen output on my Direct Drive modded S12 just for kicks let me know...I can send you the light. You can also reconnect it back it to factory and do any side by side comparison if you would like."*

I think many of us would love to see this. :thumbsup:

Vinhnguyen, when you get your X10 I'd love to know if the thermal management can be easily disabled like on the S12. And, I wonder what would happen if you DD'd it? :devil:

BTW, I really enjoyed your hot rodding S12 thread. :thumbsup:


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## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 23, 2011)

A dd x10 = a dead x10


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## ti-force (Jul 23, 2011)

pjandyho said:


> First, I want to thank ti-force for having once again done a very nice review of the X10.



You're welcome and I'm glad you've found my review interesting.



vinhnguyen54 said:


> Ti-Force:
> If you want to test the lumen output on my Direct Drive modded S12 just for kicks let me know...I can send you the light. You can also reconnect it back it to factory and do any side by side comparison if you would like.


 


Colonel Sanders said:


> I think many of us would love to see this. :thumbsup:


 

Agreed, this would be interesting. Vinhnguyen54, please pm when you have time so we can discuss this in more detail. I have to finish testing a couple more lights first, then I'd like to do this test.


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## moshow9 (Jul 23, 2011)

As others have stated, thank you for the review. It was both your review, and selfbuilt's, that pushed me over the edge to pick one up.


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## carrot (Jul 23, 2011)

All your hard work testing the X10 in different ways is appreciated. Very informative.


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## SantaClawz (Jul 23, 2011)

One thing I hate about these lights is having to tighten the tailcap in order to use the light continuoulsy, that is such a ridiculous design. I wouldnt buy one of these lights because of that design alone.


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## scot (Jul 24, 2011)

Thru-out the 90's my main 'go to' light that I used while working on fuel barges in Alaska was an original SF 6P. It was a twisty, and the lock out tailcap wasn't invented yet. What a light!! I had the sun in the palm of my hand!!! 
The twisty was NEVER a problem, simple to use, bomb proof. Can't wait for my X10 to arrive, I'll look at it like an original 6P on steroids, and maybe a bit more versatile too.
Being a twisty is the least of my worries.


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## ti-force (Jul 24, 2011)

moshow9 said:


> As others have stated, thank you for the review. It was both your review, and selfbuilt's, that pushed me over the edge to pick one up.


 


carrot said:


> All your hard work testing the X10 in different ways is appreciated. Very informative.


 
Thanks guys . I'm glad you enjoyed it.


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## jhc37013 (Jul 24, 2011)

Very cool review I like the hand as the cooling method. :twothumbs


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## bigchelis (Jul 24, 2011)

Do you have a picture of this lights XM-L/Star that you can post please.

I'm trying to see how easy it would be to put a warm XM-L in there. 

BigC


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## ti-force (Jul 25, 2011)

jhc37013 said:


> Very cool review I like the hand as the cooling method. :twothumbs


 
Thanks :thumbsup:



bigchelis said:


> Do you have a picture of this lights XM-L/Star that you can post please.
> 
> I'm trying to see how easy it would be to put a warm XM-L in there.
> 
> BigC


 
I don't, but I'll look at the light later this evening and see how difficult it would be to get that picture. If it's glued and the factory seal has to be broken to view this I can't help you; I'm not allowed to modify or damage test lights that are sent to me for review because they have to be sent back in the same condition as they were received.


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## Volvo (Jul 25, 2011)

Tnx for a nice review. 

I really like the shape of the new maelstrom light´s. :naughty:


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## flame2000 (Jul 25, 2011)

SantaClawz said:


> One thing I hate about these lights is having to tighten the tailcap in order to use the light continuoulsy, that is such a ridiculous design. I wouldnt buy one of these lights because of that design alone.



Add me to your list of those who doesn't like the UI. I find the operation kind of odd. 
Pardon my ignorance, since this is a simple 2 mode light, can someone explain to me the reason why the UI was made this way instead of just twisting the head for high or low, coupled with a forward clicky just like the Jetbeam BA20 simple UI?

But I do light the outlook of the light!


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## Nokoff (Jul 25, 2011)

ti-force, that looks to be well thought-out testing, thanks for the review and time spent. 

....only, does the X10 with random emitters warrant or deserve all this hard work since David at 4Sevens had said the emitters would vary, either U2 or T6, and neither his staff nor customers could know or choose. 

He claims the X10 will meet or exceed factory specs, I think consumers get that, but the expectation that it will perform like yours did, how would we know?


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## jhc37013 (Jul 25, 2011)

David mentioned in another thread that the review light's are T6 so you can expect these specs to meet or exceed what you get.


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## Nokoff (Jul 25, 2011)

ti-force, that looks to be well thought-out testing, thanks for the review and time spent. 

I know you've done other threads for 4Sevens flashlights....only, does the Maelstrom X10 with random emitters warrant or deserve all this hard work?.... since David at 4Sevens had said the emitters would vary, either U2 or T6, and neither his staff nor customers could know or choose. 

He claims the X10 will meet or exceed factory specs, I think consumers get that blanket statement, we've all heard it before, but the expectation that it will perform like yours did, how would we know?


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## Bass (Jul 25, 2011)

ti-force - another excellent review and some great photos! There is obviously lots of hard work in your review but it was worth it :thumbsup:

I have an S12, which is quite good; otherwise I would look closer at the X10.

Thanks again!


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## PayBack (Jul 25, 2011)

pjandyho said:


> @PayBack, I am afraid I don't quite understand what you meant about the batteries. I am using the first green version for the S12 and haven't encountered any issues with the batteries. Granted, I did not run it for prolonged periods of time to notice any issues with them. Are there any reported issues with the batteries from 4Sevens? Why the newer blue batteries now? Please PM me to avoid dragging this thread into an off-topic exchange between us.



Sorry just replying here to clarify for anyone else who didn't understand what I meant.. I have no problem with the batteries, just the fact they're never available from 4Sevens (not for the S12 anyway) and thus I'd be concerned about not being able to get more. I like the format and capacity, but would like more makers to use it before I'd feel safe investing in it.


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## ti-force (Jul 25, 2011)

Nokoff said:


> ti-force, that looks to be well thought-out testing, thanks for the review and time spent.
> 
> I know you've done other threads for 4Sevens flashlights....only, does the Maelstrom X10 with random emitters warrant or deserve all this hard work?.... since David at 4Sevens had said the emitters would vary, either U2 or T6, and neither his staff nor customers could know or choose.
> 
> He claims the X10 will meet or exceed factory specs, I think consumers get that blanket statement, we've all heard it before, but the expectation that it will perform like yours did, how would we know?


 
Nokoff,

I understand what you're asking, and to answer your question, yes I think it was worth all of my hard work. Here's why I feel this way- David has stated in another thread that all X10 review lights have the T6 flux bin emitters in them, so we know my sample doesn't have the higher U2 flux binned emitter in it. But hypothetically speaking, let's say that my sample did have a U2 flux binned XM-L emitter in it. Now you would most certainly assume that my sample would be brighter than all X10's that come/came equipped with a T6 flux binned, XM-L emitter, but that's not the case. You see the datasheet that LED manufacturers provide are really only a guide or an average of what their testing has shown. What I mean by that is that you will have some T6 flux binned XM-L emitters that are brighter than other T6 flux binned emitters, and it's possible that some of the brightest T6 flux binned (from this point forward referred to as simply FB) emitters will be brighter than some U2 FB emitters. There are lots of variables to start with. This is just emitter variables and not even getting into driver component variables that cause one driver to drive an emitter harder than another, etc., etc.

But let's say all things are equal and you have two X10's side by side. One with a T6 FB emitter and the other with a U2 FB emitter. Let's say that both emitters perform at the exactly the average of what Cree states in their datasheet for the XM-L emitter. They show roughly a 7% gain in luminous flux from the T6 FB to the U2 FB. Now let's say that the T6 sample makes 800 out the front lumens without any thermal regulation. 800 + 7% = 856 lumens. I'm not going to go so far as to say that no person could visibly see the difference in brightness between these two lights being compared side by side, but I'm going to say that you're very good if you can see this difference in output with nothing more than your naked eyes. If you were looking at a 56 lumen increase on a light that only had 50 lumens to begin with, you would most certainly notice the increase, but a 56 lumen increase on a light that already makes 800 lumens would be nearly, if not impossible for the human eye to detect. You have to understand that the equipment I use for this type of testing is very sensitive. I can accurately measure moonlight mode with 4sevens lights and get a .2 lumen reading on a light that they state provides .2 lumens of light, but that doesn't mean you can tell with your naked eyes that it's only creating .2 lumens of light.

So I said all that to say that I don't think anyone who's interested in one of these lights will be disappointed with the light or its output if they purchase one, provided the light is not defective in some form or fashion, and if it is, send it in and make use of the 10 year warranty that 4sevens provides on their lights. 

And one more thing that I feel makes my time spent testing worth it is the fact that it doesn't really matter which flux bin emitter you get, or how bright your emitter is within its flux binning, if you keep the light cool like I did with my freezer pack method, then in less than 10 minutes into the runtime it will make roughly 50% more OTF lumens than the same light would without any external cooling at all with an air temperature of roughly 74 degrees F.


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## ti-force (Jul 25, 2011)

Bass said:


> ti-force - another excellent review and some great photos! There is obviously lots of hard work in your review but it was worth it :thumbsup:
> 
> I have an S12, which is quite good; otherwise I would look closer at the X10.
> 
> Thanks again!


 
Thank you, my friend. Say uh, you wouldn't happen to have performed any of your beautiful photography on your S12, would you? I could use an S12 image or two in the first post of this thread since I don't have any. If you haven't, don't bother going through any trouble for that purpose alone.


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## badtziscool (Jul 25, 2011)

ti-force said:


> Thanks for the kind words everyone; It's appreciated, and I'm glad you've found my review interesting .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome explanation. I understand it now. I forgot that the S12 is being driven at 5A whereas the X10 is being driven at almost half that, and I forgot to consider the power supply. I guess with unlimited power supply the behavior would be different, but we're talking about a power source that can be depleted and experiences voltage sag as it is drained. 

And I just now realize that even though the X10 seems like the better bargain with better efficiency, almost equal output, and lower price, the S12 would be the better choice if one was to bypass the safety features and drive it as hard as it can.


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## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 26, 2011)

+1



badtziscool said:


> Awesome explanation. I understand it now. I forgot that the S12 is being driven at 5A whereas the X10 is being driven at almost half that, and I forgot to consider the power supply. I guess with unlimited power supply the behavior would be different, but we're talking about a power source that can be depleted and experiences voltage sag as it is drained.
> 
> And I just now realize that even though the X10 seems like the better bargain with better efficiency, almost equal output, and lower price, the S12 would be the better choice if one was to bypass the safety features and drive it as hard as it can.


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## Got Lumens? (Jul 26, 2011)

ti-force said:


> Thanks for the kind words everyone; It's appreciated, and I'm glad you've found my review interesting .
> 
> Thanks BigC and GeoBruin! I'll do my best to take lux measurements of the X10 soon. The problem is that I don't really have a good place to test @ 5 meters . GeoBruin, unfortunately I don't have a TK35, so I can't compare reflector size of the X10 to that of the TK35 for you.


Ti-Force, Let me know if Vinny sends you his, I would gladly send mine back to you also to do that comparison, and take some photos. Also I have a TK-35 that could go with it.

Big C, 
My Tk-35s reflector diameter is 0.5mm larger in diameter and ~4mm deeper than my S12. I am pretty sure the parabolas are slightly different between the S12 and X10, but size wise should be about the same, that is what I am seeing in the photos.
GL


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## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 26, 2011)

I will send TI-Force my brightest, coolest, and modded S12. I will also send him my X10 with thermal regulation deactivated. I am just waiting for the X10 to arrive first though.


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## jhc37013 (Jul 26, 2011)

vinhnguyen54 said:


> I will send TI-Force my brightest, coolest, and modded S12. I will also send him my X10 with thermal regulation deactivated. I am just waiting for the X10 to arrive first though.



So I'm guessing heat will be the deciding factor in this contest?


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## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 26, 2011)

jhc37013 said:


> So I'm guessing heat will be the deciding factor in this contest?



This is not a contest...the tests will just provide us with interesting facts for flashaholics.


----------



## Nokoff (Jul 26, 2011)

thanks for taking the time for a detailed explanation ti-force, and good luck on your testing of the unit without the active thermal nanny, should be interesting once that variable is removed.


----------



## jhc37013 (Jul 26, 2011)

vinhnguyen54 said:


> This is not a contest...the tests will just provide us with interesting facts for flashaholics.



Oh ok well my apologies then it's not a contest. :shrug:


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 26, 2011)

jhc37013 said:


> Oh ok well my apologies then it's not a contest. :shrug:


 I was just saying...i didn't mean anything


----------



## jhc37013 (Jul 26, 2011)

It's all good vinhn I really want to see the technical data to, thanks for the willingness to send these out to ti-force.


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 26, 2011)

jhc37013 said:


> It's all good vinhn I really want to see the technical data to, thanks for the willingness to send these out to selfbuilt.



its actually ti-force


----------



## jhc37013 (Jul 26, 2011)

lol my bad it's just from going back and forth from all these great X10 reviews. 

I'll edit that so not to confuse anyone.


----------



## Bass (Jul 26, 2011)

ti-force said:


> Thank you, my friend. Say uh, you wouldn't happen to have performed any of your beautiful photography on your S12, would you? I could use an S12 image or two in the first post of this thread since I don't have any. If you haven't, don't bother going through any trouble for that purpose alone.


 
Thanks ti-force. It would be a pleasure to have any images you wanted added to your excellent reviews. I have a few S12 images - please use any you want


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 26, 2011)

Bass,

What camera and lens do you use for the S12 photos? I love your pictures. They look like they came out of a brochure.


----------



## bigchelis (Jul 26, 2011)

The thread that keeps on giving. Does anybody have a S12 vs. S10 comparrison beamshots???

Im guessing the obious is more throw yet similar flood. My XM-L lights typically have very big hotspots and alot of spill.

bigC


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 26, 2011)

bigchelis said:


> The thread that keeps on giving. Does anybody have a S12 vs. S10 comparrison beamshots???
> 
> Im guessing the obious is more throw yet similar flood. My XM-L lights typically have very big hotspots and alot of spill.
> 
> bigC



Get these beamshots to yah hopefully by tomorrow night.


----------



## Bass (Jul 26, 2011)

vinhnguyen54 said:


> Bass,
> 
> What camera and lens do you use for the S12 photos? I love your pictures. They look like they came out of a brochure.


 
Thanks vinhnguyen54. The dark background shots were done with a Canon 550d (Rebel T2i) with the standard kit lens. The white background was with a Sony a700, which is my usual equipment and the camera I use for most of my stuff.


----------



## Got Lumens? (Jul 26, 2011)

Bass said:


> Thanks vinhnguyen54. The dark background shots were done with a Canon 550d (Rebel T2i) with the standard kit lens. The white background was with a Sony a700, which is my usual equipment and the camera I use for most of my stuff.


Very Nice photos Bass, Thank You.
Ti-Force, You need mine for comparison?. Roundtrip shipping on me.
GL


----------



## Lightdadark (Jul 26, 2011)

Nice review. I just tried to order one of these from 4Sevens but I couldn't seem to get a CPF coupon code to work. ??


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 26, 2011)

Got mine for less than $99 shipped from goingear.com by useing their summer coupon code. :thumbsup:


----------



## Toppe (Jul 27, 2011)

I really like this torch and would buy it soon. I just want U2 or U3 bin much more than T6 (like everyone else.) What you think about, is there coming new bins soon? Is thermalprotection same kind that in S12 and easy to "remove"?


----------



## ti-force (Jul 27, 2011)

Bass, 

Once again, beautiful images :thumbsup:. Thanks for posting them and allowing me to use them. I'll update post #1 as soon as I have time. 


Got Lumens?, 

Thank you for your offer, but I already have all the OTF data I need from your light. Again I appreciate your offer very much so. 


To everyone,

When I have time I'll start a separate thread to post results of modified S12's and X10's. I'll post a direct link in this thread.


----------



## jtice (Jul 27, 2011)

Holy crap I wish I could take photos that good, those are amazing.
Seems no matter what I do with my homemade lightbox I am not happy LOL


----------



## Claireandtim (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm really wanting to see the beamshots and a comparison to the S12 beamshot... I've been watching here and YouTube but there isn't much yet. I have an S12 and my X10 should be here tomorrow, if it shows up I'll try to do a beamshot comparison and post results.


----------



## ti-force (Jul 28, 2011)

Toppe said:


> I really like this torch and would buy it soon. I just want U2 or U3 bin much more than T6 (like everyone else.) What you think about, is there coming new bins soon? Is thermalprotection same kind that in S12 and easy to "remove"?


 
Please see post #33 of this thread for my opinion on the matter. 




Claireandtim said:


> I'm really wanting to see the beamshots and a comparison to the S12 beamshot... I've been watching here and YouTube but there isn't much yet. I have an S12 and my X10 should be here tomorrow, if it shows up I'll try to do a beamshot comparison and post results.


 
It's a race between you and Vinhnguyen54 to see who posts beam shots first . 

Bass, 

Post #1 updated with your S12 images. Thanks again :thumbsup:.


----------



## Claireandtim (Jul 28, 2011)

It has arrived!!! now we wait for the absence of the sun... standby!


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 28, 2011)

I got the X10 Last night...I have mixed feelings about it. The hotspot is nice its throws well. I deactivate the thermal regualtion so there is no output drop anymore. The light got barely warm after 10 minutes. I feel like thermal regulation is not needed in this light at all. I do hate the very large ugly green spill with artifact right around the hotspot. The tint overall is definitely on the greenish side. Overall It's a great thrower and much shorter than the Scorpion V2 Turbo but I still like the TN more as it's a more sophisticated and the beam is beautifully white with no artifacts. 

The S12 is a different light compares to the X10 so it's hard to compare. My S12 DD is significantly brighter than the X10. Yes the S12 doesn't throw as far but not a whole big deal. The overall output of the S12 makes it a more desirable light compare to the X10 in my opinion. Howveer, this is only the case of an S12 DD vs X10 with thermal regulation deactivated. Stock VS Stock I would say go for the X10. The output is not far behind but the throws is noticeably greater. My X10 measured about 2.6.2.8 at the tail cap with three different types of 26650. 

But to me the best Single cell XML is still the Scorpion V2 with turbo head if performance was the primary consideration. Scorpion V2 has a higher Celing bounce reading VS the X10. 

Beams shots tonight.


----------



## Bass (Jul 28, 2011)

ti-force said:


> Bass,
> 
> Once again, beautiful images :thumbsup:. Thanks for posting them and allowing me to use them. I'll update post #1 as soon as I have time.


 
ti-force - no problem at all, it's a pleasure. Thanks for including them!

Keep up the excellent work with your awesome reviews :twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis (Jul 28, 2011)

vinhnguyen54 said:


> I got the X10 Last night...I have mixed feelings about it. The hotspot is nice its throws well. I deactivate the thermal regualtion so there is no output drop anymore. The light got barely warm after 10 minutes. I feel like thermal regulation is not needed in this light at all. I do hate the very large ugly green spill with artifact right around the hotspot. The tint overall is definitely on the greenish side. Overall It's a great thrower and much shorter than the Scorpion V2 Turbo but I still like the TN more as it's a more sophisticated and the beam is beautifully white with no artifacts.
> 
> The S12 is a different light compares to the X10 so it's hard to compare. My S12 DD is significantly brighter than the X10. Yes the S12 doesn't throw as far but not a whole big deal. The overall output of the S12 makes it a more desirable light compare to the X10 in my opinion. Howveer, this is only the case of an S12 DD vs X10 with thermal regulation deactivated. Stock VS Stock I would say go for the X10. The output is not far behind but the throws is noticeably greater. My X10 measured about 2.6.2.8 at the tail cap with three different types of 26650.
> 
> ...


 
Im looking forward to your pictures Vinny. One thing with the XM-L is that at low 2.5A~3A I notice a green tint too. My other XM-L lights are all 4.5A~5A and the tint is pure white. Mine are Mag builds by Lamdalights but I do notice at lower currents the green shows its ugly face.

Vinny,
If you DD that XM-L you will get 4~5A at the tail and it might not turn blue at all. You will see the pure white tint if you are succesfull. The downside is no matter how hard you drive the XM-L the most OTF lumens after 30sec or so is high 900 to low 1000 OTF lumens.

bigC


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 28, 2011)

BigC,

I am not going to DD the X10...I feel its a waste of energy for not too much more lumen plus reliability will be significantly lowered.

Here are some beam shots to get us going...night ones coming tonight  I think the beam shots are self explanatory so no tittle necessary.


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 28, 2011)

If Ti-force lumen measurements of 750 lumen for the X10 is true then I am somewhat disappointed with my S12....

261/188= 1.388
1.388*750= 1040 lumen for S12 Hic Hic Hic....I always thought it was at least 1200


----------



## bigchelis (Jul 28, 2011)

vinhnguyen54 said:


> If Ti-force lumen measurements of 750 lumen for the X10 is true then I am somewhat disappointed with my S12....
> 
> 261/188= 1.388
> 1.388*750= 1040 lumen for S12 Hic Hic Hic....I always thought it was at least 1200


 
You gotta get aftermarket cutterelectronics guaranteed high bin for that. The only non-high bin SST-90 I ever seen or tested is this S12. Its still bright though and the spill is great too.

bigC


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 28, 2011)

bigchelis said:


> You gotta get aftermarket cutterelectronics guaranteed high bin for that. The only non-high bin SST-90 I ever seen or tested is this S12. Its still bright though and the spill is great too.
> 
> bigC


 
i am very happy with my S12 though. I chose this one among 5 different S12s. This is the brightest oen with a pure white tint. All the other ones are yellowish or green.


----------



## Got Lumens? (Jul 28, 2011)

Great Job Guys!
Thanks for all your hard work and beamshots.
GL


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 28, 2011)

OK....So i just DD my X10...Tail cap pulled 4A on 18650 and 5A on 26650.

Celing bounce read 200 on 18650 and 215 on 26650....

200/188=> 6.4% increase
215/188=> 14.4% increase 

1.064*750=798 lumen
1.14*750= 857 Lumen

Insignificant increase IMO

back to stock it goes :-(


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 29, 2011)

Wow...my X10 beam looks nothing like that! I think I might have tried to send that one back! Yuck.

Mine is just a tinsy bit yellow (practically white) in the hotspot and just a bit more yellow in the corona....not at all green. The side spill is definitely on the cool side (a little purple.) For my being a neutral fan I'm fairly pleased with the tint of this light...MUCH better than I was expecting.

FWIW, it pulls 2.95amp with a fresh IMR26650 at 4.22v. With the same battery at 3.89v it pulled 3.17a and breifly as high as 3.3a.

vin, was the DD method the same as with the S12? I can see on mine that killing TM is the same (just gotta clip either the neg or the pos to the resistor, right?) Thanks.

So the DD S12 is about 21% brighter than the DD X10 it seems. You did no "breaking in" of the XML, correct?

I bet the X10 at 857L really throws well! I think that might be worth it to me.


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 29, 2011)

One more question Vinhnguyen, the 5a pulled with 26650s...was that with IMRs or 4sevens? I'm thinking IMRs. Thanks.


----------



## Claireandtim (Jul 29, 2011)

Hey Everyone... sorry to possibly disappoint but due to camera technical issues... no beamshots tonight. I will discuss my observations though, I definitely perceive the color of the S12 to by a more white blue in hue and the X10 to be on the warmer yellow side. I wouldn't go as far as saying the X10 is green, it is however noticeably different than the S12.

I actually like both of them as far as tint goes, I'd say the S12's crisper white color is nice but the tint of the X10 almost appears to be more true, maybe in the 4300K color range. 

As far as brightness, to my eye the X10 appears brighter than the S12 on both low and high mode. I'm sure this is not hard to imagine due to the tighter beam, I also asked a few other bystanders (neighbors) and they all picked the X10 as appearing to be brighter. Also it's worth noting that when I say brighter, I'm not squinting with one eye and bouncing on one foot... it flat out, for sure appears brighter to my eyes. The X10 does of course lack the broadness of the S12 beam, but not by much. I'd say that the spill from the X10 is quite good and allows for a good amount of peripheral vision. 

I used to love my S12 but after a short amount of time with the X10 I'm wondering if maybe that is about to change. For a pocket-able light bomb the S12 is what I would grab, I liked the broad spill and I thought it reached out pretty good... after running it side by side with the X10, the X10's spill still being good and the tighter hot spot reaching out further, I am leaning towards the X10 being superior for my own likes. 

Hopefully tomorrow night I can get some beam shots up for comparison.

Cheers


----------



## Claireandtim (Jul 29, 2011)

One more comment on both the S12 and the X10... both of my lights are what I consider to be very "gritty" in the tail cap threads.. it is noticeable, I can both hear and feel the grinding when tightening/loosening the tail cap, almost like sand grains are jammed up in the threads. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm sure that it's just from the manufacturing process but just figured that for the price of these lights the threads would be "clean" and smooth... other than that, we're all good!


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 29, 2011)

*"both of my lights are what I consider to be very "gritty" in the tail cap threads.. it is noticeable, I can both hear and feel the grinding when tightening/loosening the tail cap, almost like sand grains are jammed up in the threads. Has anyone else experienced this?"*

Yeah, same here to begin with but after playing with the light tonight a fair amount it has pretty much gone away. I will probably give it a few days and then clean and re-lube the threads if it's not totally smooth by then.


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 29, 2011)

OK, so I figured it out. The X10s have a slight green tint due to the angle of deflection. I used another XML I know for sure is pure white in the X10 reflector and the tint is still greenish although its white in other reflectors. So its a design thing. May be the design provide the best throw with compromise of the green tint shift. :-(


----------



## jhc37013 (Jul 29, 2011)

vinhnguyen54 said:


> OK, so I figured it out. The X10s have a slight green tint due to the angle of deflection. I used another XML I know for sure is pure white in the X10 reflector and the tint is still greenish although its white in other reflectors. So its a design thing. May be the design provide the best throw with compromise of the green tint shift. :-(



That sounds like what David was talking about is Selfbuilts review, I don't remember the details but he called it delta tint caused by the flat die of the emitter, his comment was specific to the warmer corona area around the hotspot but maybe it affects the hotspot as well. Like you mention he said that was by design, a compromise between throw and tint.


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 29, 2011)

That makes sense but what explains this causing only a yellowish tint on some lights and guacamole on others? I wonder if the drive amperage varies enough between lights to affect this. Vinny, I think you mentioned yours pulling only 2.6-2.8a at the tailcap. Mine is generally above 3.1a. Did your tint change when you put it in DD?

I guess I need to post my first beamshot to show you what color this thing is. I've also noticed that my light seems to have different but less noticeable artifacts than the pics I've seen posted by the reviewers. :thinking:

I did my first LED light mod last night...I disabled the TM! :devil: I just snipped the black resistor wire.

I tried to talk myself in to going DD but I haven't had much experience with the soldering gun so I think I will get someone else to do it. I would like to come up with a way that allows switching back and forth from regulated to DD without de-soldering and re-soldering. Some kind of switch or quick disconnects.


----------



## Got Lumens? (Jul 29, 2011)

Colonel Sanders said:


> That makes sense but what explains this causing only a yellowish tint on some lights and guacamole on others? I wonder if the drive amperage varies enough between lights to affect this. Vinny, I think you mentioned yours pulling only 2.6-2.8a at the tailcap. Mine is generally above 3.1a. Did your tint change when you put it in DD?
> 
> I guess I need to post my first beamshot to show you what color this thing is. I've also noticed that my light seems to have different but less noticeable artifacts than the pics I've seen posted by the reviewers. :thinking:
> 
> ...


 
+1 
I really like that idea. Pretty sraight forward. 
Only problem is to find connectors small enough to handle the current amd amperage. A pin and socket from a computer plug(radioShack) is the only thing that comes to mind that would be small enough to fit, not sure if it would work. They will work with 26 or 24ga wire.
GL


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 29, 2011)

this switch idea is much better suited for the S12. The X10 gains nothing noticeable on DD.


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 29, 2011)

vinhnguyen54 said:


> this switch idea is much better suited for the S12. The X10 gains nothing noticeable on DD.



The S12 gained only about 22%, right? 850 up to 1041. And that seemed like a pretty good gain. The X10 gained 14%. Is it really that hard to tell a difference when DDing the X10? If 22% is really good one would think that 14% is at least ok.

Anyway, I'm very happy with the X10 with just the TM disabled. I was amazed with how well it matched up against my ~70watt incan light (FM1909 bulb running off 3x26650s with a deep reflector in a Mag host) last night. It was tit for tat in throw (maybe a little edge to the FM1909 at the very center of the hot spot) and seemingly just a bit better in total light output as well. I also tested it against a WA1111 incan Mag (35w) I have and the X10 blew it away in every regard. It's funny seeing this tiny light humiliate these huge 2D and 3D Mags.


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 29, 2011)

The percentage gain calculated above is of course not very acurate. Throw light have a higher concentrated spot so more light is bounce back down from the ceiling which appear to have a higher reading. Flooder have a less concentrated hot spot so less light gets bounce back to the meter thus a lower reading. In reality the S12 gain more than 22% while the X14 might gain about 14%, a little more or even less. 

Say you have 5 lumen hitting the ceiling in 5 different spot. All those lumen might get absorb into the ceiling and never bounce back enough to be register on the meter. However, if you hit 5 lumen on the same exact spot, and say two get absorb, 3 might be about to reflect back to the meter.... 

Anyhow, The S12 is significantly brighter with DD, while the X10 is not. At least to the naked eyes regardless of what the meter says. Only an integrating sphere would know for sure.


----------



## ti-force (Jul 29, 2011)

vinhnguyen54,

I was just about to reply with very similar info to what you just posted in post #81. When doing ceiling bounce tests it would be best to stick with percentage gains instead of trying to calculate lumen gains or lumen output at all. Like you said, there are too many variables while doing a ceiling bounce test to calculate lumen output. For starters you would need a light with a known output, but your X10 might possibly have a U2 flux binned XM-L emitter in it which would most likely mean that it outputs more lumens than my sample did. Anyway I won't ramble on about this because I think you already know this information.

On to the tint of your X10. It really does appear green in your indoor beam shots. I'm sorry you ended up with an emitter that has more of a greenish tint. My sample didn't have any green tint to it, or at least not to my eyes. It was more neutral colored. But they don't call it playing the tint bin lottery for nothing, I guess. Anyway, it just so happens that I have an extra neutral white XM-L emitter straight from Cutter in Australia. It has a T6 flux binning with 3C tint binning (5000K). You could be the first to have a neutral white tinted X10 . Just a thought.


Claireandtim,

Sorry to hear about your camera issues. Hopefully you can get it worked out and post some outdoor beam shots here. My sample didn't have the "gritty" sounding tail cap issue you describe. I'm not really sure what that could be caused from. Perhaps a lack of lubricant on the threads?





Colonel Sanders said:


> That makes sense but what explains this causing only a yellowish tint on some lights and guacamole on others?


 
It could be from variances within the same tint binning or it could be from a different tint binning altogether. Drive current does affect tint, but I don't think the drive current varies enough from one sample to another to cause anywhere near that difference in tint as long as both samples are being compared with close to the same controls, i.e., same temperature, both lights have fully charged batteries, etc. I would sooner say it's a tint variance between both emitters.


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 29, 2011)

I would love to try out the neutral tint and see how it goes in the X10! Whats your paypal?  Thanks Man!


----------



## Colonel Sanders (Jul 29, 2011)

Thanks Vinny and Ti. :thumbsup:

Quick question for ya'll or anyone else with an X10. How long do you have to wait after turning the light off for that level to stick in memory? It's supposed to be only >1 second but I have to wait 3.5 seconds if saving to high output and 4 seconds if saving to low. It doesn't matter whether I'm using the button or twisting the cap. 

Is it possible that disabling the thermal management caused this? I wouldn't think so but I kinda think it wasn't taking this long when I first got the light (But I'm not sure. It might have been like this before and I didn't notice.)


----------



## Claireandtim (Jul 29, 2011)

Hey Guys 

I believe the camera technical difficulties have been sorted out and we should be good to go for beamshots tonight. It's fairly rural here and I have an empty field that is dotted with power poles and a tree line that is a bit farther out. I will attempt to get several objectves for comparison...

I don't have a huge library of lights but if anyone wants to see one of the following in the mix (for referrence) let me know;

SL Stinger LED HP
SL Strion LED HP
SL Strion (more floody than the HP version) 
35W HID Spotlight (not relevant but thought I'd throw it out there) 
35W Handheld HID searchlight


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 29, 2011)

Throw in the HID!


----------



## scot (Jul 29, 2011)

Definitely the HID's!!!


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## Claireandtim (Jul 29, 2011)

HID's it is!!! now we wait for the absence of daylight...


----------



## Got Lumens? (Jul 29, 2011)

Claireandtim said:


> HID's it is!!! now we wait for the absence of daylight...


Thanks for doing this, I am looking forward to them.
GL


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 31, 2011)

SR91





M3C4





Skyray3800





Scorpion V2 Turbo





X10





S12


----------



## ti-force (Jul 31, 2011)

Vinh,

Nice work :thumbsup:. Do you know the distance each light was from the tree in the images (roughly)? Hope you don't mind that I put your images in motion. Using some of your images I made .gif's to make comparison a little easier.


----------



## Got Lumens? (Jul 31, 2011)

ti-force said:


> Vinh,
> Nice work :thumbsup:. Do you know the distance each light was from the tree in the images (roughly)? Hope you don't mind that I put your images in motion. Using some of your images I made .gif's to make comparison a little easier.


+1 Nice Photos Vinny, Nice Edit Ti-force
Many Thanks
GL


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 31, 2011)

Camera to top of tree is about 65 feet. The lights appear brighter in real life. I just turn down the exposure so things aren't wash out. I love my M3C4 XML more than my catapult XML. The s spill is large, hot spot is almost as bright but much bigger. The light itself feels more sophisticated magnetic rings. I tried several throwers and like the M3C4 most. The X10 is a nice intermediate thrower that's only behind the Sr91 and M3C4. Now lets try a neutral LED in it and see if its the best all around. 

Oh yah, you guys can do whatever u want to my images.  

How do you make gifs?


----------



## ti-force (Jul 31, 2011)

Got Lumens? said:


> +1 Nice Photos Vinny, Nice Edit Ti-force
> Many Thanks
> GL


 
Thanks GL.






vinhnguyen54 said:


> Oh yah, you guys can do whatever u want to my images.
> 
> How do you make gifs?


 

Okay, I may place them in the first post of this thread as long as you don't mind.

I use Photoshop CS3 to create gif's, then I upload them to my image hosing provider. There are sites online that allow the user to create gif's. The only problem is that the site's I've used in the past actually host your .gif on their site, which is convenient initially, but when they start deleting older uploads about three or four months after you've created and hosted your .gif then posted a link into a thread (or multiple threads) it becomes very inconvenient, very quickly when your images only display a question mark or something of the like because your .gif no longer exists.


----------



## tre (Jul 31, 2011)

Vinh, thanks for all the beamshots. I just got my X10 and I also have a very gritty tailcap.


----------



## Got Lumens? (Jul 31, 2011)

OK, 
I swallowed and bit the bullet, but did not swallow the bullet
One X10 headed my way.
GL


----------



## ti-force (Aug 1, 2011)

Got Lumens? said:


> OK,
> I swallowed and bit the bullet, but did not swallow the bullet
> One X10 headed my way.
> GL


 
I think you will be extremely pleased with the X10, and it will be a nice addition to your massive 4sevens collection.


----------



## busseguy (Aug 1, 2011)

Does this throw farther than one of the elektrolumen edc-mce lights?.


----------



## purelite (Aug 1, 2011)

I cant read thru all this.

Does the X10 require a specific battery only supplied by 4sevens?


----------



## Hogokansatsukan (Aug 1, 2011)

Got mine and boy do I like this light. It's a nice compact size for what it does.
I of course had to do what I always do with a new light...





I'm like this with new guns too. I have about 5 holsters made for it before I even get a good chance to use it.


----------



## Nitroz (Aug 1, 2011)

Hogokansatsukan said:


> Got mine and boy do I like this light. It's a nice compact size for what it does.
> I of course had to do what I always do with a new light...
> 
> 
> I'm like this with new guns too. I have about 5 holsters made for it before I even get a good chance to use it.



Holster pics please!


----------



## jhc37013 (Aug 1, 2011)

Nitro something must be wrong with your browser their is a pic in Hogs post and in your quote above.


----------



## tre (Aug 1, 2011)

purelite said:


> I cant read thru all this.
> 
> Does the X10 require a specific battery only supplied by 4sevens?


 
no. It uses a "standard" 26650 cell. 4sevens does sell 26650 cells for the light but you can also use a Redilast 26650 cell, AW 26650 cell, battery space 26650 cell, etc.


----------



## Nitroz (Aug 1, 2011)

jhc37013 said:


> Nitro something must be wrong with your browser their is a pic in Hogs post and in your quote above.


 
Thanks! Must be blocked at work...sorry Hog.


----------



## Got Lumens? (Aug 1, 2011)

Hogo,
Nice holster for a very nice light!
GL


----------



## Claireandtim (Aug 1, 2011)

Hey guys,

sorry I've been absent on the beamshots as promised. I will keep the story as short as possible but basically this is what happened; I went out last week in an attempt to get the beamshots that failed to come together the first night I went out. To set the stage, I live in a rural neighborhood, there are no streetlights and everyone has at least one dog. The area where I had hoped to conduct the shots is at the end of my street, there is a gate and a gravel road that goes around a wing of a lake that I live on and there are various trees, cows and a few power poles. 

I got out of the car, set up the tripod and then began grabbing out the lights (keep in mind that it is literally pitch black). I had my scanner on me because I regular listen to traffic from cal fire & the SO (I'm a volunteer fire fighter). Well, it didn't take long after I turned on the first light that one dog, at the house closest to me started going bananas.. I happen to know these people and they have a 1 month old baby and it was about 11 p.m. This of course started a chain reaction with 3 other dogs. I blacked out and sat low, hoping that they would forget about me or get pulled inside by their owners. So, after about 5 minutes I sparked up a light again and began to adjust the camera focus so that the images would be clear. I set up and began to take shots of the first light (S12) when I hear over the radio, the following, from the SO dispatch... P23XX respond to the area of Rio Alto and Windriver, report of a suspicious person, possibly trying to spotlight deer.. Needless to say, I got the heck outta there. I packed up and left, I didn't even get usable shots. I'm going to need to find a new spot or make a run another day after I can notify the neighbors that I'm going to be out with some lights..

In the meantime, +1 for the beamshot pics that were posted, nice job!


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## Colonel Sanders (Aug 2, 2011)

*"but you can also use a Redilast 26650 cell, AW 26650 cell,"*

I wasn't aware that Redilast and AW were now selling 26650s. Is this something pretty recent? I use the ones from Batteryspace which Lighthound sells as well.


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## ti-force (Aug 2, 2011)

Claireandtim said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> sorry I've been absent on the beamshots as promised. I will keep the story as short as possible but basically this is what happened; I went out last week in an attempt to get the beamshots that failed to come together the first night I went out. To set the stage, I live in a rural neighborhood, there are no streetlights and everyone has at least one dog. The area where I had hoped to conduct the shots is at the end of my street, there is a gate and a gravel road that goes around a wing of a lake that I live on and there are various trees, cows and a few power poles. o
> I got out of the car, set up the tripod and then began grabbing out the lights (keep in mind that it is literally pitch black). I had my scanner on me because I regular listen to traffic from cal fire & the SO (I'm a volunteer fire fighter). Well, it didn't take long after I turned on the first light that one dog, at the house closest to me started going bananas.. I happen to know these people and they have a 1 month old baby and it was about 11 p.m. This of course started a chain reaction with 3 other dogs. I blacked out and sat low, hoping that they would forget about me or get pulled inside by their owners. So, after about 5 minutes I sparked up a light again and began to adjust the camera focus so that the images would be clear. I set up and began to take shots of the first light (S12) when I hear over the radio, the following, from the SO dispatch... P23XX respond to the area of Rio Alto and Windriver, report of a suspicious person, possibly trying to spotlight deer.. Needless to say, I got the heck outta there. I packed up and left, I didn't even get usable shots. I'm going to need to find a new spot or make a run another day after I can notify the neighbors that I'm going to be out with some lights..
> ...



Thanks for your attempt at getting some beam shots taken. I do appreciate your attempt. A lot of people on here don't even have the slightest clue what it takes to get some good beam shots up. It looks real easy to do, but that's not the case most of the time, especially if you want the image quality to be anything worth looking at. Again, I do appreciate your attempt.


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## ti-force (Aug 2, 2011)

purelite said:


> Does the X10 require a specific battery only supplied by 4sevens?


 
As long as the voltage is in the correct range for the X10, and the battery is the correct size (e.g., 26650 and not 26500), the light should function properly. The same may not always be said about S12 battery selection because of higher current draw, so you would also need to consider this too when choosing a battery for the S12.


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## ti-force (Aug 2, 2011)

Colonel Sanders said:


> *"but you can also use a Redilast 26650 cell, AW 26650 cell,"*
> 
> I wasn't aware that Redilast and AW were now selling 26650s. Is this something pretty recent?


 
+1

Please enlighten us, tre.


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## tre (Aug 2, 2011)

Colonel Sanders said:


> *"but you can also use a Redilast 26650 cell, AW 26650 cell,"*
> 
> I wasn't aware that Redilast and AW were now selling 26650s. Is this something pretty recent? I use the ones from Batteryspace which Lighthound sells as well.


 


ti-force said:


> +1
> 
> Please enlighten us, tre.


 
Yes, Redilast (Tactical Hid) started selling 4000mAh IMR 26650 cells a few months back. here is the thread http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?249741-IMR-26650-4000mAh-sale-thread!

I've seen AW sell 26650 cells on and off. Here is one thread http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...-LiIon-Batteries-Sales-Thread-*Part-11*/page8


Edit: it looks like Tactical Hid did not brand the 26650 cells as Redilast for some reason (same company though). They would work fine in the S12 and X10 (10A max discharge!)


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## Colonel Sanders (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks tre. The ones from Tactical look identical to the batteryspace/lighthound cells. It looks like AW is not currently selling 26650s which look interesting since they were rated at 4500mah instead of 4000mah.


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## luceat lux vestra (Aug 2, 2011)

Claireandtim said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> sorry I've been absent on the beamshots as promised. I will keep the story as short as possible but basically this is what happened; I went out last week in an attempt to get the beamshots that failed to come together the first night I went out. To set the stage, I live in a rural neighborhood, there are no streetlights and everyone has at least one dog. The area where I had hoped to conduct the shots is at the end of my street, there is a gate and a gravel road that goes around a wing of a lake that I live on and there are various trees, cows and a few power poles.
> 
> ...





ti-force said:


> Thanks for your attempt at getting some beam shots taken. I do appreciate your attempt. A lot of people on here don't even have the slightest clue what it takes to get some good beam shots up. It looks real easy to do, but that's not the case most of the time, especially if you want the image quality to be anything worth looking at. Again, I do appreciate your attempt.


 Claireandtim, I think that you might have to find a better place to take beamshots LOL...
I have a great place, few streetlights and I can set up only 20 feet from my house, then 100 yards to a big pine tree. The only problem is that I don't have the huge collection of awesome flashlights like some of you guys.. O well you can't have it all. {personally though, I think I would rather have the flashlights}.


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## Got Lumens? (Aug 2, 2011)

luceat lux vestra said:


> Claireandtim, I think that you might have to find a better place to take beamshots LOL...
> I have a great place, few streetlights and I can set up only 20 feet from my house, then 100 yards to a big pine tree. The only problem is that I don't have the huge collection of awesome flashlights like some of you guys.. O well you can't have it all. {personally though, I think I would rather have the flashlights}.


Luceat lux vestra,
I have a simular setup in my yard also. I have my X10 coming Thursday. I have all 47s lights(-S18), All of Skilhunts lights, Fenix TK-35, And Spark SL-6(&5)NW. Are any of these ones would you like to see compared? Thanks.
GL


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## jhc37013 (Aug 2, 2011)

Got Lumens? said:


> Luceat lux vestra,
> I have a simular setup in my yard also. I have my X10 coming Thursday. I have all 47s lights(-S18), All of Skilhunts lights, Fenix TK-35, And Spark SL-6(&5)NW. Are any of these ones would you like to see compared? Thanks.
> GL



It has been a little to foggy for me the past few night's to really get a good idea of throw when comparing some of my lights with the X10 but from what I could tell the TK35 and X10 comparison was interesting so if your taking request I would suggest the TK35 and X10. Thanks


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## Purrkieset (Aug 3, 2011)

ti-force said:


> Vinh,
> 
> Nice work :thumbsup:. Do you know the distance each light was from the tree in the images (roughly)? Hope you don't mind that I put your images in motion. Using some of your images I made .gif's to make comparison a little easier.


 

Exactly what I wanted, :goodjob:


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## mhphoto (Oct 29, 2011)

Claireandtim said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> sorry I've been absent on the beamshots as promised. I will keep the story as short as possible but basically this is what happened; I went out last week in an attempt to get the beamshots that failed to come together the first night I went out. To set the stage, I live in a rural neighborhood, there are no streetlights and everyone has at least one dog. The area where I had hoped to conduct the shots is at the end of my street, there is a gate and a gravel road that goes around a wing of a lake that I live on and there are various trees, cows and a few power poles.
> 
> ...



Oh man! There's no good way outta that situation, haha. Thanks for the effort though!

My X10 should be coming tomorrow or Monday. I'll try and head down to the country to get some shots of it versus my other 4Sevens lights.


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## Justintoxicated (Mar 4, 2012)

I returned my X10 it was too green for me, quite noticeable against the desert sand where I intend to use it often.

Is the S12 really a battery hog in comparison? I was thinking about grabbing an S12 instead, but I feel like I could be making a bad purchase if the X10 is superior. It was quite bright, and it seems I have a lack of options to replace the X10 with, thinking about trying the S12 still, just don't want to buy something else I won't like. 

Or should I just get another X10 and hope it's not as green as the first one, David said the one I sent back it was on par with other X10's and better than a few, so that has me worried. I'm not usually super picky, mine was similar to the bathroom shots posted. I snapped this picture with my cellphone and it looks about right on my monitor.




Malestorm right fenix tk10 left by Glamisduner, on Flickr

Guess I'm more picky than I would like to admit.... This is on the low setting. Ceiling was painted "Ultra Bright White" from Home Depo.


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## vinhnguyen54 (Mar 4, 2012)

The X10 is a an excellent host in term of runtime, size and throw. The probelm is all X10 has a green tint and a under driven driver IMO. I modded my X10 to 4A and an XML-U2 and the tint and output is much mroe impressive!


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## Got Lumens? (Mar 4, 2012)

Justintoxicated said:


> I returned my X10 it was too green for me, quite noticeable against the desert sand where I intend to use it often.
> 
> Is the S12 really a battery hog in comparison? I was thinking about grabbing an S12 instead, but I feel like I could be making a bad purchase if the X10 is superior. It was quite bright, and it seems I have a lack of options to replace the X10 with, thinking about trying the S12 still, just don't want to buy something else I won't like.
> 
> ...


Justintoxicated,
Do you plan on using only Low or did you notice the same greeninsh on high in the sands? I have 3 S12s and one X10, they all are really great tints, and have noticed that tint change only on the lower levels. They have the Turbo X right now in neutral white, that might better suit your needs :shrug:
GL


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## Justintoxicated (Mar 5, 2012)

Got Lumens? said:


> Justintoxicated,
> Do you plan on using only Low or did you notice the same greeninsh on high in the sands? I have 3 S12s and one X10, they all are really great tints, and have noticed that tint change only on the lower levels. They have the Turbo X right now in neutral white, that might better suit your needs :shrug:
> GL



It was noticable on high as well, but my cell-phone couldn't take that much light input haha. It is indeed bright!

the Turbo is an impressive light, and definitely a step up compared to my TK10 haha. However I want something with rechargeable batteries. The nice big lithium power plant for the S12 and X10 fit the bill perfectly! Need to bring a spare battery, then a single charge and a single spare battery will do the trick. Great if I have to charge off the car or trailer 12v system. Fits in the pocket or holster, lights up the area around and throws a great range. The only thing I don't care for is that it's a twisty light, with momentary on. That means I have to use 2 hands to operate it, but that's a compromise I'm ok with since it does have momentary on still.


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