# A small lathe



## KC2IXE (Jul 29, 2010)

I was looking at that "best 1K lathe" thread, and it got me back to my pet "I want, why don't they make" idea

I WISH they made a GOOD small lathe - say something in the EMCO CNC5 size class, ot the 7x or 9x class - that was CNC (so far, it's made) BUT that has a real spindle - yeah, I know it increases the cost, a LOT, but I'd LOVE to see a lathe with the following

7-9 inch swing (could go DOWN to say 6")
14-18 between centers (could go a bit lower if necessary)
5C class spindle with either camlock nose (threads would be OK as a secondary choice)

CNC instead of geartrains etc - just set it up with a Gekodrive, the right size steppers/servos and spindle encoder - and let the end user supply his own PC to run say, EMC or whatever he wants to drive the Gekodrive

Oh, and the option of a air/electric/Lever collet closer would be nice - basically a GOOD small CNC lathe, an import/hobby machine that's in the size range of say an Omniturn Jr - only not on a big stand, or that high powered

Heck - even a manual 7x or 9x clone that we all know and love, but with a 5C spindle


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## precisionworks (Jul 29, 2010)

Microkinetics makes a 12x36 machine similar to your description http://www.microkinetics.com/lathe1236/index.htm

The Tormach Duality is a possibility ... except that it needs a mill for CNC ops http://www.tormach.com/Product_PCNC_lathe.html


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## KC2IXE (Jul 29, 2010)

The Microkenetics is WAY bigger than I was talking about - it's a 12x36 cabinet base lathe - I'm talking 9x18 and smaller - Lots o choices in the 12 and 13 inch swing range

Now, let's look at what that Tormach lathe is - it's a standard 7x11 lathe, no CNC, with a 12mm spindle - .63 inch - Buy the same lathe from Horrid Freight, Grizzly etc for a heck of a lot less

Now, build a lathe that size as say the low end, and the classic 9x19"
http://grizzly.com/products/G4000

as the high end size wise, bit put a 1.375 spindle in it, the same size as the Microkenetics

Basically, something VERY VERY close to a Harding HSL, without the huge drive cabinet (and a lot lighter) - Picture a desktop Harding HSL for a headstock/bed, and add a set of linear cross slides setup X-Z, with either a AXA class, or better, Gang tooling

Here is basically what I think we need lathe wise out there






Built a BIT lighter for $$ reasons, and converted for the X-Z to be CNC

I'd actually do one myself, BUT every darned HSL I seem to find around is $3000+ (and sometimes WAY plus), which, based upon the fact it IS a Hardinge isn't BAD, but say an Import grade HSL


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## KC2IXE (Jul 29, 2010)

Digging around, I think I've basically found what I'm looking for - IF someone were to make a nice bolton mini cnc kit

http://www.roviproducts.com/twister.htm?gclid=CI6wjp26kaMCFQiD5QodzVaMrA

In particular, the LT-AR2

Picture that lathe - maybe with a bed 3-4 inches longer, and a CNC slide set on it - THAT is what I think we need from a Grizzly, Jet etc

edit:

someone did something close to what I'm talking about here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7zJ8xE0V_g

I just saw a HSL in the area for $1600 - but of course, 3 phase (they WERE offered 3 phase), and with no cross slides etc


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## precisionworks (Jul 29, 2010)

Quite a few HSL's have gotten a McLean slide and a controller http://www.mcleanlathe.com/products.htm

Quite a few companies make HSL (or HLVH) copies, like Sharp http://www.sharp-industries.com/lathes/1118cnc.html

Or the Shing Teck Machinery Works STL-59 (which you can find with a Google search, sometimes )

Here's a lower cost Hardinge


> [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]*Hardinge HSL Speed Lathe with Cross Feed & Air 5C Collet Closer. Runs Good. $2,500.00*[/FONT]


http://www.nvtools.com/inventory.htm Look under the Lathes section.


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## precisionworks (Jul 29, 2010)

> but of course, 3 phase


Yep, that's a deal breaker ... you'd have to spend at least $100 to build a rotary converter to power the Hardinge


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## KC2IXE (Jul 29, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> Yep, that's a deal breaker ... you'd have to spend at least $100 to build a rotary converter to power the Hardinge



Yeah - Or spend about $100 for a 1/2 HP VFD 

Anyway - the point of the thread isn't that I can't MAKE one

The point of the thread is that I think if the Jets/Griz/Whoever line of "we import them by the the container load" guys were to import something along the lines of an HSL (That sharp is a TFB clone by the looks) with a set of CNC slides (say something along the lines of the McLean lathes but with lead screws and steppers vs air slides) and a PC based control, I think there could be another revolution in HSM like there has been with CNC Mills like the X3 stuff

The General complaint isn't even the CNC, it's "why they heck to they still make 9" or 12" class lathes with 3/4" or so spindle bores? - How about making them ALL 5C sized (or 16C or...)"


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## precisionworks (Jul 29, 2010)

> "why they heck to they still make 9" or 12" class lathes with 3/4" or so spindle bores? - How about making them ALL 5C sized (or 16C or...)"



Three answers to that question ... money, money, and money :nana:

American consumers of Chinese products often want the cheapest machine & are willing to do without many features we consider essential, hence the success of HF, Griz, Enco & (to a lesser extent) Jet.

A larger spindle ID means a bigger spindle OD, and that means larger bearings, larger gears, larger castings, etc. All that is well within the capability of Chinese manufacturers, but would probably push the price point beyond that of the "typical" consumer.

Setting up a machine for ballscrews isn't difficult, except that the HF/Griz/Enco lathes are already set up with castings that are ready for conventional leadscrews, meaning a redesign at the very least. The best "designs" from China seem to be copies of something made in North America/Europe/Japan, like the Hardinge. That isn't going to be a machine that can be made inexpensively. 

The bottom line is that there has to be a market before the imported machines will try to make a cheaper, small CNC. But, someone could build these one at a time & most likely sell every one :thumbsup:


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## Davo J (Jul 30, 2010)

Hi,
They brought out a small cnc lathe and mill at Hare and Forbes (like Grizzly) over here in Australia last year. It's Chinese but nowhere near cheap. 
They have targeted them at schools and Tafe were the government is paying for them. You would have to be rich to afford one for a home shop.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=K8500

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=K8510

Dave


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## KC2IXE (Jul 30, 2010)

It's again, what we would call a 12" lathe, and as I said, there are pleanty of 12-13 inch swing lathes out there that are CNC, 5C spindle or both

Again, I think there is a need for a either manual or CNC (even if just the leadscrew) 9: or so class lathe with a 5C spindle


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## Davo J (Jul 30, 2010)

Thats a only a 10 x 17.5 lathe not a 12, only an inch off a 9 that you spoke about in the first post.
Haven't seen anything smaller.

Dave


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## precisionworks (Jul 30, 2010)

> NCL-6000 is a CNC lathe with a *stepping motor system*, ball screws, variable spindle speed, limit switches,* 4-way toolpost*


Ouch 

Same price as a Haas TL-1 ... but the Haas runs a 7.5 hp (5.6 kw) spindle, swings 16" (406 mm), weighs 4100# (1860 kg), and has a 2.3" (58 mm) spindle bore.

http://www.haascnc.com/specs.asp?ID=TL-1&mdl=TL-1&webid=LATHE_TL#CNCLatheTreeModel

Just a little bigger than the 9x that you want, but a decent size for a home shop.


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## KC2IXE (Jul 30, 2010)

If you can figure out a way for me to get a TL-1 down a set of 27.5" wide steps, with narrow landings at the top and bottom, I'm all ears. I spend bore than a few hours looking at them the last 2 Eastecs, and other similar size/price range "toolroom CNC" lathes - I've talked with the guys at PM, and we HAVE figured how to get that down the stairs, and if either the business picks up, or I finally get a new, good job (still unemployed), a PM 13" CNC will probably show up


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## Davo J (Jul 31, 2010)

I think you could get one of those small cnc lathe direct from china for about 10 thousand or less . Most shops have 100-150% markup and Hare and Forbes are expensive for Chinese machinery over here.

Still at that price it makes the Microkinetics lathe look a cheap alternative for more lathe.
A lot of guys get the 12 x 36 lathes into basements.

If you keep watch one cnc zone you might pick up an already converted lathe for a reasonable price, but it wont be new.

Dave


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