# Ultra-runner needs help choosing headlamp



## gte861s (Jan 5, 2012)

Hello everyone,

I have been searching for about two days online and I guess being an engineer, the more I research the more questions I have and the more headlamp options I find. I need a headlamp which isn't overly bulky, I don't have a real preference for battery type, would like something which can be used in inclement weather for night time **trail** running...therefore important to see rocks, roots, etc and also have enough lighting distance to see upcoming trail junctions.

That being said, I started by finding Princeton Tec APEX (based on an ultrarunning article reviewing another light) then found Petzl MYO RXP then Fenix HP10 and HP11 which lead me to a review of the HP10 and HP11 here on this forum which is when the real questions started forming in my head!! :huh:. Then I started seeing references to Zebralights and haven't even began looking at them other than a short look at their website.

Additionally, after a headlamp; I would be interested in help from someone experienced with creating a belt/light combo (have heard it helps with trail running depth perception to have 2 light sources). 

Not sure what my priorities should be other than I want it to be pretty firm on my head and not overly bulky such that I have to be adjusting it a lot. I haven't done any all night runs, but that doesn't mean I won't be in the future so battery life is also important. I'm looking for 1 headlamp that is overall utility - in other words, don't want to get a MYO RXP just because it is really lightweight only to need a Zebralight for a different reason.

Thank you all in advance for your help.


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## icedmocha (Jan 5, 2012)

The zebralight h51 with niteize headband seems to be the go-to choice. The upcomung zl h502 sounds better but isnt out yet. Im in the quandry of waiting for the h502 or buying the h51 right now. NBs new minimus line isnt out until march either.....seems to be the time of new products.


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## gte861s (Jan 5, 2012)

I think for the ZL H51, I would want something with a longer battery life. The M1 setting states 30 lumens which is too low and the 100 lumen setting has less than 2 hours battery life. Does the upcoming ZL H502 boast better (or longer) battery performance?


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## Bolster (Jan 6, 2012)

I don't know what ULTRA running is, but maybe you need an ULTRA headlamp for that? 

http://www.rei.com/product/786019/petzl-ultra-headlamp

I kid, I kid.


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## borrower (Jan 6, 2012)

There's a few good threads here for running headlamps. You'll quickly be able to figure out who doesn't run but has an opinion anyway. Even among the runners, you'll get a difference of opinion... here's my checklist.

- balanced front to back for less bounce (so, battery pack on back of head)
- has a top strap
- under 200grams (I have a ~700 lumen home-made that tips around 250g, and it's bearable but a bit much)
- at least 100 lumens (more is better... for rugged trail, I'm delighted by the aforementioned ~700 lumen monster)
- floody, so you've got a bit in front of you and most importantly, your feet illuminated. (A beam that's too spotty wanders around so much as to be annoying. Plus you can't see your feet, so you end up landing harder than you might otherwise.)
- regulated, so constant brightness
- decently water-resistant

I usually run with a Petzl MYO RXP, and I mostly like it (but for brightness sometimes). It's pretty bright (but not regulated in its two brightest modes -- it just steps down when it needs to; the rest of the modes are regulated) and has a flip-up diffuser to go from spot to flood. 

Pretty much any headlamp could be chopped up for belt/sternum strap use... I haven't done it myself, so can't comment. I occasionally use a floody handheld flashlight, which can help a bit (but also sets off my gait, as that arm doesn't get to move as naturally).

If you want the rolls-royce version, go look at a Lupine Piko.


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## xcandrew (Jan 6, 2012)

I would recommend the Gemini Lights Xera. My GF and I each have one because it is dark here in the winter, and we run or ski hours every night/morning. The Xera is more along the lines of a bike light or night orienteering(running)/nordic skiing/adventure racing light than the other suggestions, yet it very compact and lightweight. I'm a fast runner who can often keep up with bikes on singletrack, and do a lot of running/skiing through the woods, and orienteering.

A quick summary of the details and some thoughts:

- Great stock optic - smooth, smooth, smooth and 800 lumens out the front on high for over 2 hours (if the battery is kept warm). 18 degrees, but with plenty of spill light so you don't have to shift your head at all to see both up the trail and what you are about to step on. Full speed ahead, even on rough trail or off in the woods where there are no trails.

- Optional reflector is pretty good too, and some may prefer it. It has a brighter and distinct spill, but tight spot is a more fatiguing to use because it is harder to hold it still, yet you need to move your head more look at something specific when needed, and the spill and spot are slightly different colors, which annoys me slightly. Based on what Action LED has done with their $5 wide angle lens for the Magicshine lights and imitations, when they comes out with their wide lens for the light, I will revisit my reflector.

- Both optic and reflecter are great for running. Forget the chest/waist light ideas that are thrown about in US based trail running forums. They are not needed if a light has a good beam and is bright enough. All the Euro orienteers with their 500-2,000+ lumen headlamps racing around in the woods can't be wrong, and they aren't.

-Small, lightweight head: 52 g, 58 g counting the wire. That's a bit over half the weight of my Princeton Tec Eos loaded with batteries. Headbelt is 44 g. With the 2 cell Li-ion battery attached to the headbelt, the total weight is about 239 g. In comparison the Apex is 279 g, Petzl RXP is 175 g. The battery can be strapped to a webbing belt and worn unnoticed on your waist, for an almost weightless 102 g setup on your head. You can also use the 4 cell battery on your body for double the run times. For winter, I'm finding that 239 g is not noticeable on my head because I'm wearing a ski hat anyway (which always improves stability of headlamps), and the headbelt is pretty secure. For use in warmer temperatures with faster/bouncier running, night orienteers like to strap their batteries to their bodies with harnesses or belts.

-Regulated light with 3 adjustable brightness settings (10% increments). Default is 20%, 60%, 100%. As I said before, with the two cell battery, you have 800 real(out the front) lumens for over 2 hours. I haven't tested the other settings, since they are adjustable anyway, but it would probably not be too far off to say you can have about 400 lumens for 4 hours, and maybe 200 lumens all night with the smaller battery.

-Light blinks to warn of low battery. The lighted button also changes color, but you can't see it when it's on your head, so I just go with a freshly charged battery and keep track of how long I am using it.

Other, much more expensive running lights that are similar in function (though not quite as bright) include the Lupine Piko.

The Petzl Ultra is 3x the cost of the Xera, less than half as bright, a lot heavier, shorter run time, uglier, etc...


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

Bolster said:


> I don't know what ULTRA running is, but maybe you need an ULTRA headlamp for that?
> 
> http://www.rei.com/product/786019/petzl-ultra-headlamp
> 
> I kid, I kid.



Haha Bolster! You kid, but when doing a Google search for "ultra running headlamp" that is one of the very first things I found when I began preliminary searches a couple of months ago. There are actually a few articles about it, one of which from a guy who did a 200 miler and while he was wearing a MYO RXP - his pace setter wore the Ultra.


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

borrower said:


> - under 200grams (I have a ~700 lumen home-made that tips around 250g, and it's bearable but a bit much)
> - at least 100 lumens (more is better... for rugged trail, I'm delighted by the aforementioned ~700 lumen monster)
> - floody, so you've got a bit in front of you and most importantly, your feet illuminated. (A beam that's too spotty wanders around so much as to be annoying. Plus you can't see your feet, so you end up landing harder than you might otherwise.)
> - regulated, so constant brightness
> ...



Borrower, 

Thanks! This is the exact stuff I was looking for - the weight was something I wasn't sure of and definitely was wondering what the lumen output "minimum" would be for a trail runner - all the better to get that answer from someone with experience. From researching yesterday, I had surmised that regulated would probably be better, but thank you for solidifying that thought. 

For the water resistance, which do you feel is the minimum? IPX-4 or 6?

I will check out the Lupine Piko as well. I have been so far leaning toward the MYO RXP but have been wishing for something a bit better. My quandry is that I feel like if I'm familiar with the trails, then the MYO RXP would be perfect, but if the trails are not familiar; I would want for something more...since I would probably be using a homemade belt light in those situations for the added depth perception - do you feel that the MYO RXP would be sufficient in that situation? Of course, like you say...the more the better!


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 6, 2012)

I like the looks of the Xera headlight. I'd like to try it out next time I go skiing.

I have been on the lookout for the perfect running light for a long time, and have come up with some good ones. I run before sun up on an 8 mile trail in the woods in total darkness. I have written about my favorite lights on several running threads, and lots of other folks have listed some great recommendations as well. Do a search for those threads using the search function at the top of this page, or scan through the first few pages on the headlamps section of this forum. 

My top recommendation is the Zebralight H600 which has outputs ranging from 0.1 lumens all the way up to 750 lumens. I like the 170 lumens for 7 hours or the 270 lumens for 4 hours the best when running on trails. The zebralights have IMO the best UI around, and I haven't found a light that is more efficient than the H600. It also has a perfect beam for running trails (mostly floody, but has enough throw to see down trail well.) It is very light weight, and doesn't have the large battery packs that other headlamps have. It only weighs 3.04 oz. with the battery & 1.4 oz. without. The H600 uses an 18650 Li-ion rechargeable battery which is not included, so you'd need to get one or more 18650's plus a charger....got mine at 4sevens.com. Stick with the quality brand batteries such as AW or Redilast 18650's. I'm usign an AW 18650 2900mah battery in my H600. 

Also, if you go this route spend some time learning about Li-ion batteries. They're very easy to use & handle, but there are some dangers that you should be aware of. You're already using Li-ion batteries though like in your cell phone & laptop, but spend some time learning what to do & what not to do. Go to batteryuniversity.com to quickly learn what you need to know.

You'll also need to get a NiteIze headband for this light. The zebralight headband bounces around too much when running; where as, the NiteIze headband is a stiff nylon material that doesn't bounce around at all. Very comfortable and fits with the comfort of a hat. You can get one of these at batteryjunction.com and it only costs $5.


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## jrk (Jan 6, 2012)

I'll second xcandrew's recommendation of the Gemini Xera. With the stock optic and programmable levels, it's hard to beat if you're okay with a cool-tinted beam. I already had a Lupine Pro headband, which is a wonderful mount. But Gemini makes their own "pro" version and it appears to borrow generously from the Lupine design but costs about 1/3 as much. I also carry a handheld light with a floody neutral beam as a backup and fog lamp.


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

xcandrew said:


> - Both optic and reflecter are great for running. Forget the chest/waist light ideas that are thrown about in US based trail running forums. They are not needed if a light has a good beam and is bright enough. All the Euro orienteers with their 500-2,000+ lumen headlamps racing around in the woods can't be wrong, and they aren't.
> 
> -Small, lightweight head: 52 g, 58 g counting the wire. That's a bit over half the weight of my Princeton Tec Eos loaded with batteries. Headbelt is 44 g. With the 2 cell Li-ion battery attached to the headbelt, the total weight is about 239 g. In comparison the Apex is 279 g, Petzl RXP is 175 g. The battery can be strapped to a webbing belt and worn unnoticed on your waist, for an almost weightless 102 g setup on your head. You can also use the 4 cell battery on your body for double the run times. For winter, I'm finding that 239 g is not noticeable on my head because I'm wearing a ski hat anyway (which always improves stability of headlamps), and the headbelt is pretty secure. For use in warmer temperatures with faster/bouncier running, night orienteers like to strap their batteries to their bodies with harnesses or belts.



xcandrew,

wow, thanks! Very informative and you have opened up the option for me to use the battery back on my homemade belt now instead of having two light sources. I can use the money that I was going to spend there on the bigger headlamps and get a smaller emergency/backup light for my waterpack. Definitely some food for thought! Much much appreciated!

I bet you get some amazing running in Alaska! I'm jealous man! The reason I'm researching headlamps is because I'm headed to Arizona in mid-March to do a Grand Canyon Rim to Rim to Rim (RRR) run (~42 miles and 21,420 of elevation change) followed by a daylight 50K race (Mesquite Canyon) two days later then run Mount Humphrey's (peak @12,633ft) on my last day of the trip (much shorter run as the trail is less than 5 miles; of course I will be dealing with snow and altitude to slow me down though!). The RRR will be a very early start AND important to not fall off the canyon and still be able to go quickly so the more lumens the better!

Does the Xera you recommended have a SOS or strobe feature?


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

Ourdoorsman5,

Very good recommendations; thank you! I will check out your other threads now that I know who to look for. I have come away with 3-4 very good recommendations so far that I knew nothing about.


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

jrk,

you and xcandrew talked about the light color - Is the "neutral" beam you mentioned a white color or yellow? Does a cool tinted beam take on a green or blue tint on a white light?


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> My top recommendation is the Zebralight H600 which has outputs ranging from 0.1 lumens all the way up to 750 lumens. I like the 170 lumens for 7 hours or the 270 lumens for 4 hours the best when running on trails. The zebralights have IMO the best UI around, and I haven't found a light that is more efficient than the H600. It also has a perfect beam for running trails (mostly floody, but has enough throw to see down trail well.) It is very light weight, and doesn't have the large battery packs that other headlamps have. It only weighs 3.04 oz. with the battery & 1.4 oz. without. The H600 uses an 18650 Li-ion rechargeable battery which is not included, so you'd need to get one or more 18650's plus a charger....got mine at 4sevens.com. Stick with the quality brand batteries such as AW or Redilast 18650's. I'm usign an AW 18650 2900mah battery in my H600.



I have seen some of your other recommendations in another thread and based on that have a question or two - 



Outdoorsman5 said:


> I forgot to updat the thread with my thoughts on the lights I got - the ZL H51w and the ZL 501w.
> 
> The H51w is perfect for running. I mostly use the medium 1 setting (26 lumens) for dark paved areas, but when I get in the woods on a dark trail I run it on max. The balance between throw & flood is great, and the neutral tint is awesome. The light bounced too much on the provided single headband, so I tried Geobruin's idea of using two bands. This method works well, but I like to take the head band off while not in use. Putting it back on the right way is a little tricky, so I wanted another solution. I am now using a "Nite Ize" head band that is perfect - no bouncing around, and the single head band is comfortable & sturdy. Also, I intentionally let the battery run down on max. The light switch to the low 1 setting (2.2 lumens) and ran for the next 30 minutes no problem. This was still enough light to get me home, so I am not afraid of this light instantly leaving me in the dark....nice. I also carry a Quark 123x2 Turbo X as my other light when running mostly to see things at a distance, so I'm always covered with a back up light. I like the throw & brightness (450 lumens) of this light plus it's quite small (and I use a quark finger loop to keep the Turbo X attached to my hand.)



The reason you're recommending the H600 over the H51w in my thread is due to me needing more lumens and longer battery life, correct? I'm assuming your H51w rec. is because it is a great light for shorter runs and also because of the AA batteries?

edit: guess I should have read that same thread a bit farther as you updated it with your reasoning of the H600 > H51. Does your H600 have any issues with bouncing (bouncing was part of that topic for some of the ZLs and how to fix the bounce)?


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 6, 2012)

gte861s said:


> I have seen some of your other recommendations in another thread and based on that have a question or two -
> 
> 
> 
> The reason you're recommending the H600 over the H51w in my thread is due to me needing more lumens and longer battery life, correct? I'm assuming your H51w rec. is because it is a great light for shorter runs and also because of the AA batteries?



That's correct. I love the H51 and H51w, but the H600 has lots more output, and runtimes are a whole lot longer. For the type of running you've described the H51 would not be a good fit, but the H600 would be ideal especailly when you consider how small & lightweight it is compared to your other choices.

Also, read the last entry in that thread which later discusses the H51 and the H600 in depth. I updated it today since someone resurrected that thread.


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> Also, read the last entry in that thread which later discusses the H51 and the H600 in depth. I updated it today since someone resurrected that thread.



Ha! You probably just missed my edit!



gte861s said:


> edit: guess I should have read that same thread a bit farther as you updated it with your reasoning of the H600 > H51. Does your H600 have any issues with bouncing (bouncing was part of that topic for some of the ZLs and how to fix the bounce)?



:thumbsup: You have some great recommendations and the H600 as well as the XERA are now my top two candidates....maybe I will start acting like all you flashaholics and get both!


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 6, 2012)

Yeah.........get both.



gte861s said:


> Does your H600 have any issues with bouncing (bouncing was part of that topic for some of the ZLs and how to fix the bounce)?



It doesn't bounce at all when in the NiteIze headband.


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## jrk (Jan 6, 2012)

gte861s said:


> jrk,
> 
> you and xcandrew talked about the light color - Is the "neutral" beam you mentioned a white color or yellow? Does a cool tinted beam take on a green or blue tint on a white light?



My handheld light's neutral emitter (XPE in an optic) has a color temperature of about 5000K, while the Xera's appears to be a standard "cool" 6300K. In comparison, the neutral beam looks yellow but is probably the nicest outdoor tint that I've owned - much cozier than the Xera's. To Gemini's credit, their cool white does not suffer from any off-color tinges either in the center spot or the spill.


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## Bicycleflyer (Jan 6, 2012)

I'm not an ultra runner, but a cyclist. So I may not be in tune with your specific needs, but black diamond is making a headlamp specifically for running. What about that model?


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 6, 2012)

Bicycleflyer said:


> I'm not an ultra runner, but a cyclist. So I may not be in tune with your specific needs, but black diamond is making a headlamp specifically for running. What about that model?



I've looked at the black diamond sprinter before, and it looks pretty decent. It's limited to max 68 lumens though. That's plenty for running on streets, but I prefer more lumens for trail running. Also, I don't like lights with a bulky battery pack when running either....too bulky, not comfortable, & usually moves around too much.


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

Bicycleflyer said:


> I'm not an ultra runner, but a cyclist. So I may not be in tune with your specific needs, but black diamond is making a headlamp specifically for running. What about that model?



Also a great review was done by one of CPFs flashaholics (*Szemhazai*) on his website:

http://www.light-test.info/index.ph...-sprinter&catid=35:czolowki&Itemid=54&lang=en

I found the lumens to be lacking for what I need.


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> It doesn't bounce at all when in the NiteIze headband.



Is this really the headband being recommended? I have seen your rec. on a few threads as well as that of others and wanted to be sure since it doesn't *appear* to be very good from the pics..just double checking:

http://www.batteryjunction.com/niteize-npo-03.html


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 6, 2012)

gte861s said:


> Is this really the headband being recommended? I have seen your rec. on a few threads as well as that of others and wanted to be sure since it doesn't *appear* to be very good from the pics..just double checking:
> 
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/niteize-npo-03.html



Yep that's it. Looks goofy in the picture, and bein only $5 makes it seem like it might be cheap. It's well made though. I guess it's inexpensive because it's only made out of nylon & velcro which there's nothin fancy about that. I bought a few of the black ones thinking my original one would wear out (I was worried it may be cheap.) I haven't needed to use any of my backup headbands because the original one is as good as new. I hand wash it regularly with soap & water. I pull the lights in & out of it regularly, and I wad the thing up in my pocket pretty regular too. No real sign of wear. It's a tough, simple, & sturdy headband. I now expect it'll last a long time. I'd still buy a backup just in case.


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## JackJ (Jan 6, 2012)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> I've looked at the black diamond sprinter before, and it looks pretty decent. It's limited to max 68 lumens though. That's plenty for running on streets, but I prefer more lumens for trail running. Also, I don't like lights with a bulky battery pack when running either....too bulky, not comfortable, & usually moves around too much.


I really like my Black Diamond Sprinter, but as noted above and by others, the output is not sufficient alone for trail running. 

However, I find it perfect for roads and groomed park trails. The rear flashing red LED is great when there's traffic about. And, best of all, this is the best balanced headlamp I've ever worn. Not at all bulky--the lighthead (front) and battery (rear) are both very compact and lightweight. The strap system is very well designed, and there is never any movement. I can completely forget that I'm wearing it at all. In this case, I'm pretty confident that the distributed load makes it a better design than any front-only design, even one as light as my ZL H501.

But again, it's not for rugged trails. Though I do sometimes still wear it for that, and carry a powerful handheld (ShiningBeam S-Mini) for the needed extra lumens.


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## gte861s (Jan 6, 2012)

Outdoorsman5,

A bit off topic, but I found you listed Quark AA as your 3rd (IIRC) flashlight in another thread...first question..what does "enc" mean? I have seen it a few times but yet to figure it out...is it code for your "go to" all around utility light? 2nd question..which Quark do you specifically recommend? I found so so many different versions on 4Sevens.com and on another of your posts you mentioned the Quark X AA^2 but then mentioned using it with a 14500 I think...which is only 1 battery and it looked to me like the X AA^2 is a two battery flashlight...might be getting my wires crossed up somewhat reading so many threads in the past day....reason I ask, is looking for a backup flashlight now that I ordered the ZL H600 (backordered till 1/16/12) and the NiteIze headband (on the way)...trying to get a full order ready on 4Seven.com and want to make sure I have the correct parts on the Quark before I pull the trigger on the AW 18650 2900mah (and charger if my charger at home won't work - have to check tonight) for the ZL.


Edit: To me, it looks like this is your current Quark recommendation: http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?products_id=2756
edit2: The more I look, the more I'm thinking you have some sort of modded Quark because of the "lego" ability of the Quark's...an XM-L head (0.9v-4.2v), AA body (using single 14500), and perhaps a tactical tail, with a clip? Don't think I have found that as an "all in one package".
edit3: finally found the other two threads again and pieced it all together now! 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...first-light!&p=3830673&viewfull=1#post3830673
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-for-running&p=3815438&viewfull=1#post3815438


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## robostudent5000 (Jan 6, 2012)

gte861s said:


> Is this really the headband being recommended? I have seen your rec. on a few threads as well as that of others and wanted to be sure since it doesn't *appear* to be very good from the pics..just double checking:



the Niteize band is a high quality headband and it holds a Zebra very securely. i've tried it running with a H60, which is only a few grams lighter than a H600, and it didn't bounce at all. but i had two problems with the Niteize. 

first, the band isn't really big enough to fit my size 7 1/2 head. i had to adjust it all the way out to the edge of the velcro to get it to fit. my Niteize is an old one, so maybe the newer ones are different. if they're the same, then they're not good for large heads.

the second problem for me is that the setup hurts my forehead. there isn't much padding where the headband and headlamp make contact with my forehead, and the way the band and elastic conform to the shape of the lamp make it very uncomfortable for me. some others don't seem to have this problem, but it was a big problem for me.

in the end i made my own version with a narrower and looser elastic holder that was stitched so that it could hold a Zebra while allowing the headband to lie flat and conform to my head. it's not quite as stable as the Niteize, but it's comfortable and otherwise works really well.


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## borrower (Jan 7, 2012)

gte861s said:


> ...
> For the water resistance, which do you feel is the minimum? IPX-4 or 6?
> ...
> I will check out the Lupine Piko as well. I have been so far leaning toward the MYO RXP but have been wishing for something a bit better. My quandry is that I feel like if I'm familiar with the trails, then the MYO RXP would be perfect, but if the trails are not familiar; I would want for something more...since I would probably be using a homemade belt light in those situations for the added depth perception - do you feel that the MYO RXP would be sufficient in that situation? Of course, like you say...the more the better!



Water-resistance wise, I've never had anything fail on me in the rain. (And I'm living in a wet region.) My various petzls are ipx4; my home-made is probably less.

I think you'll do okay without excessive light. Part of that is that you aren't (gosh, I'm making assumptions now!) running 7 minute miles while you're ultra-ing. I've been up the Bright Angel Trail, and can say that you aren't going to get lost on it. 

It sounds like the Xera has fallen off your list, but if anyone knows what kind of 18650s are used in it, I'd be interested. (I hate to sound suspicious, but at the price, it almost sounds too good to be true...)


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## xcandrew (Jan 7, 2012)

borrower said:


> if anyone knows what kind of 18650s are used in it, I'd be interested. (I hate to sound suspicious, but at the price, it almost sounds too good to be true...)



Samsung.

You can also use battery packs from Geomangear (a web retailer who developed their own battery packs with Panasonic cells after recalling Magicshine battery packs that they sold for a period of time), Magicshine, and probably some others with compatible connectors.


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## xcandrew (Jan 7, 2012)

gte861s said:


> Does the Xera you recommended have a SOS or strobe feature?



The Xera has a blinking mode, though I haven't used it. You can adjust the intensity from 10% to 100% in 10% increments like you can in the other modes.

A


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## xcandrew (Jan 7, 2012)

jrk said:


> My handheld light's neutral emitter (XPE in an optic) has a color temperature of about 5000K, while the Xera's appears to be a standard "cool" 6300K. In comparison, the neutral beam looks yellow but is probably the nicest outdoor tint that I've owned - much cozier than the Xera's. To Gemini's credit, their cool white does not suffer from any off-color tinges either in the center spot or the spill.



My two Xeras are different in tint, but both are fine. They are cooler than the 5000K compact fluorescent bulbs that I just installed in my house. Unlike jrk though, I don't like yellow. It looks like urine on snow.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 9, 2012)

gte861s said:


> Outdoorsman5,
> 
> A bit off topic, but I found you listed Quark AA as your 3rd (IIRC) flashlight in another thread...first question..what does "enc" mean? I have seen it a few times but yet to figure it out...is it code for your "go to" all around utility light? 2nd question..which Quark do you specifically recommend? I found so so many different versions on 4Sevens.com and on another of your posts you mentioned the Quark X AA^2 but then mentioned using it with a 14500 I think...which is only 1 battery and it looked to me like the X AA^2 is a two battery flashlight...might be getting my wires crossed up somewhat reading so many threads in the past day....reason I ask, is looking for a backup flashlight now that I ordered the ZL H600 (backordered till 1/16/12) and the NiteIze headband (on the way)...trying to get a full order ready on 4Seven.com and want to make sure I have the correct parts on the Quark before I pull the trigger on the AW 18650 2900mah (and charger if my charger at home won't work - have to check tonight) for the ZL.
> 
> ...



Looks like you figured it out by reading those other threads. My Quark AA does have the Quark X AA2 Neutral head lego'd onto it. I also have the deep carry pocket clip and tactical tail switch (forward clicky) since mine came with a flat tail (reverse clicky.) It has the regular UI which is what I prefer for an edc light. I don't like reverse clickies as much. To duplicate this set up you'd have to purchase it this way - buy a Neutral White Quark X AA2, a AA body, a deep carry pocket clip, a tactical tail switch, and a 14500 Li-ion battery (AW brand and Redilast are the best around.)

"EDC" stands for "EveryDay Carry." Which means I carry the Quark AA wherever I go.....great light for everyday use.





robostudent5000 said:


> the Niteize band is a high quality headband and it holds a Zebra very securely. i've tried it running with a H60, which is only a few grams lighter than a H600, and it didn't bounce at all. but i had two problems with the Niteize.
> 
> first, the band isn't really big enough to fit my size 7 1/2 head. i had to adjust it all the way out to the edge of the velcro to get it to fit. my Niteize is an old one, so maybe the newer ones are different. if they're the same, then they're not good for large heads.
> 
> ...



I see how that could happen. I have a medium sized head, and luckily the NiteIze headband is comfortable. I would now imagine that folks with small to medium sized heads would probably be ok with this headband, but larger heads may not. There is really no pain at all for me. I did a ten miler this weekend wearing the thing, and I forgot it was there....which is how it should be. It leaves a small dent in my head for a little while, but it doesn't hurt.


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## gte861s (Jan 9, 2012)

Thanks for all the help so far everyone!  @borrower - haven't dropped the Xera - going to end up getting both lights I believe; the Xera has a lot going for it (all in 1 package too which is the best part) that I really like AND I can use it for my mountain bike. For my upcoming Arizona trip, I decided on the lightweight ZL H600 using an AW R18650 2900mAh Li-ion battery and NiteIze headband. My backup light for the trip/run (and future use HA!) is going to be the Quark X AA2 replaced with an AA body. Battery for that will be AW 14500 750mAh Li-ion. Depending on Outdoorsman5 reply below will be how I decide on tactical/regular UI and switch.

Outdoorsman5,

Other than the forward/reverse click; how do the UI's differ between the tactical and regular Quark?


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 9, 2012)

gte861s said:


> Outdoorsman5,
> 
> Other than the forward/reverse click; how do the UI's differ between the tactical and regular Quark?



Here's how each UI works:

Quarks with the Tactical UI - There are two settings that you program (head tight & head loose.) You have 5 output choices (moonlight, low, medium, high, & max) plus 3 blinky choices (strobe, sos, & beacon.) Any of these 8 output options can be programmed into either setting (head tight or head loose.) It only takes 20 seconds to program each setting. Watch the video demonstration on 4sevens.com website to see how programming works. This light comes with a protruding "forward clicky" which allows momentary on but will not tail stand. Advantages of this UI - momentary on, no cycling through output options, & very simple. Disadvantages of this UI - you don't have all of the other output options readily available & cannot tail stand.

Quarks with the Regular UI - This version has all of the same light output & blinky settings available, but you cycle through each setting by lightly pressing the tail switch. For example, when the head is tight you have max then strobe. When the head is loose, you have moonlight, then low, then medium, then high, then sos, and then beacon. This loop repeats as you cycle through. Advantages of this UI - all of the output options are readily available, can tail stand, also very simple (but not as simple as the tactical version.) Disadvantages of this UI - you HAVE to cycle through each output & no momentary on.

I like both UI's, but prefer the Regular UI in most situations. I use moonlight, low, medium, high & max too often to only be limited to the two output options that you have available with the tactical UI. For everyday use and for camping I simply need all of the output options available. I have given away a bunch of Quark AA2 as gifts to non-flashaholics. They love em. My wife chose the tactical UI, and loves the simplicity. She hates cycling through the output options in my other quarks. My father-in-law chose the tactical UI as well. He said he wanted just a high & a low. Everyone else I've given em to (several guys) have chosen the regular UI. So it's a toss up on what you may like the most. 

I mentioned earlier that I have a forward clicky on some of my quarks with the regular UI. The tail/switch does not change the UI. The UI is programmed in the head. I simply prefer a forward clicky. To me it makes it easier to cycle through the output options.


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## DIΩDΣ (Jan 9, 2012)

Just wanted to say congrats on being an ultra runner, hopefully I'll be there in a couple years. Looks like you got some good advice, not much to add here, good luck!


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## gte861s (Jan 9, 2012)

DIΩDΣ;3842812 said:


> Just wanted to say congrats on being an ultra runner, hopefully I'll be there in a couple years. Looks like you got some good advice, not much to add here, good luck!



The advice received here from everyone was excellent. I'm really excited to get everything in and check it out and also report back what I liked or didn't like as well as how the lights fare. I'm very excited about doing some night runs in February and super excited about the Grand Canyon/Mount Humprhey's trip. I really love trail running and the only ultra races I have ever done have been off road. I've never even ran a road marathon and have no desire to ever do so except maybe for Boston.


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## gte861s (Jan 10, 2012)

You all have worn off on me pretty quickly...I'm actually excited about my orders and some of it is on the way! Ordered the headband and ZL H600 last week and was back ordered to 1/16. Yesterday I placed the order for everything else and it is on the way now:

Products
------------------------------------------------------
2 x AW's R14500 750mAh (AW14500) = $27.00
1 x Cytac Dual Bay Fast Charger 139 (AW.chg139) = $18.50
1 x Quark AA body (FS.QAAbody) = $20.00
1 x Quark Tactical Tail (FS.Qtail-t) = $9.00
2 x AW's R18650 2900mah (AW.18650C) = $53.26
2 x Shipping - United States Insurance (Ins.US) = $3.00
1 x Neutral-white Quark "X" AA² Green Packaging (FS.QXAA-2NWB) = $69.00

Thanks again for all your help. I'm enjoying reading the other threads as well and already have begun thinking about the "next" light...and I shudder at the junk lights I have in my utility drawer at home. My eyes have been opened. Thank you so much!


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## Gregozedobe (Jan 11, 2012)

Have you looked at ahorton's "Spike" headlamps ? I'm sure he would make you some battery packs with longer leads to reduce the weight on your head. Choice of several levels of flood and/or throw.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308032-Ahorton-s-sales-(Lenses-headlamps-...)


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## gte861s (Jan 11, 2012)

Gregozedobe said:


> Have you looked at ahorton's "Spike" headlamps ? I'm sure he would make you some battery packs with longer leads to reduce the weight on your head. Choice of several levels of flood and/or throw.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308032-Ahorton-s-sales-(Lenses-headlamps-...)



Thanks, I will look at this thread as well. 

ZL shipped!


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## gte861s (Jan 13, 2012)

My 4Sevens stuff came in and the Zebralight should be here tomorrow...all I can say is WOW about the Quark. I'm so impressed...gone are the days of crappy flashlights around the house. I have been "enlightened" - pun intended. All I need to do now is get some Eneloops and buy an extra Quark head and I will have another great light from all the replacement parts I have already! Score!


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## DIΩDΣ (Jan 13, 2012)

Sounds great. Modern lights make night time running a bit more enjoyable I think. I think you'll love the output of that Zebralight. I see you got the neutral white Quark, wich ZL did you order, the H600 or H600w?


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## gte861s (Jan 17, 2012)

DIΩDΣ;3847115 said:


> I see you got the neutral white Quark, wich ZL did you order, the H600 or H600w?



H600 and it has arrived. Can't wait to try it out! Both lights are amazing.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jan 17, 2012)

gte861s said:


> H600 and it has arrived. Can't wait to try it out! Both lights are amazing.




Nice. Looking forward to a review of each light after you've used them for a while.....especially after you run the race! I'm jealous of your Grand Canyon/Mt Humphrey's run, and hope the lights serve you as well as I believe they will. Good Luck.


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## gte861s (Jan 17, 2012)

Any idea when 4Sevens might have XM-L replacement heads available? That is all I lack to have another complete light.


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## fxc3700 (Aug 30, 2012)

Picked up a zebralight h600w and love it. Thanks


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## Outdoorsman5 (Sep 7, 2012)

fxc3700 said:


> Picked up a zebralight h600w and love it. Thanks



You'll love it for a very long time I bet. I still use mine all the time. Outstanding output, run times, size, output levels, & UI.


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## nightrunner83 (Oct 24, 2012)

gte861s said:


> H600 and it has arrived. Can't wait to try it out! Both lights are amazing.



gte861s - so how did everything work out? I know this was a lot earlier in the year, but I'm looking at the same exact use .... night / morning trail running at quick and slower speeds - even doing a rim-rim-rim run myself in 2013 (http://run4poverty.com) but its already staying dark earlier when I run ...need something now.

This thread has me convinced on the ZL H600 / H600w .... is there a difference by the way? 

How'd you like it for your running?

Where'd you get your batteries / charger ...4sevens?

How'd the strap compare to the NiteIze?
Im looking at this strap for running .... also good for other custom lights for camping / multiple etc - http://www.batteryjunction.com/nitecore-headband.html


Thanks and happy running / lighting 


Sent via mobile using Tapatalk


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## nightrunner83 (Oct 25, 2012)

After seeing this thread and more feedback on Facebook, I just put in my order(s) for the following:

- ZL H600
- Orbtronic (Panasonic) batteries + smart mobile/home charger
- NiteIze headband - http://www.batteryjunction.com/niteize-npo-03.html
- NiteCore headband - http://www.batteryjunction.com/nitecore-headband.html

Now the ever-so-popular and dreaded "wait for the UPS/USPS/FEDex guy rain-dance"

Definitely going to use it and review it on my running blog in the near future ... http://runblog.adamcondit.com


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## haoleSan (Nov 6, 2012)

Piko X Duo with Smartcore.


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## ddavis (Jan 12, 2013)

gte861s...any updates on your run and light recommendations?


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## philgo20 (Mar 11, 2013)

Does anyone have tried the Petzl Nao ? Any feedback?

http://www.petzl.com/us/outdoor/headlamps/nao/


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## gte861s (May 19, 2014)

Hey everyone! Sorry, I never replied about how useful my headlamp turned out. The ZL is an amazing headlamp. I have sent quite a few friends to Zebra for the same headlamp and have had numerous folks ask me where the heck I got the "headlight" and say things like "how fast does that battery die?" or "you must need a big battery to run that for very long"...many newly educated runners out there over the past few years. Every person who has bought the ZL H600 have been so happy with their decision. It will change your life on a night time run on technical trails especially compared to the likes of Petzl lights which are geared toward night time runners. Petzl makes some great climbing gear but their headlamps for running leave a lot to be desired when comparing to the ZL lamps.

The other light has been great as well because of how I designed it after talking with Outdoorsman5. I have used it as a second light which I sometimes carry in my hand using the hand strap...or have used it for many other things such as camping, chores around the house, etc. Love it for it's functionality and different modes.


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## gte861s (May 19, 2014)

nightrunner83 said:


> After seeing this thread and more feedback on Facebook, I just put in my order(s) for the following:
> 
> - ZL H600
> - Orbtronic (Panasonic) batteries + smart mobile/home charger
> ...




Love your blog and the review you did on this headlamp...so many running friends use this exact same setup now. I just crewed one of my best friends at Thunder Rock 100 this past weekend and seeing him come up the trail, I always knew it was him just because of how this light will blind you while other headlamps you wonder how the people keep from falling down because their lights are so dim! The NitIze band too...that is definitely worth its weight in gold! So cheap and effective.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Jul 13, 2014)

gte861s said:


> Hey everyone! Sorry, I never replied about how useful my headlamp turned out. The ZL is an amazing headlamp. I have sent quite a few friends to Zebra for the same headlamp and have had numerous folks ask me where the heck I got the "headlight" and say things like "how fast does that battery die?" or "you must need a big battery to run that for very long"...many newly educated runners out there over the past few years. Every person who has bought the ZL H600 have been so happy with their decision. It will change your life on a night time run on technical trails especially compared to the likes of Petzl lights which are geared toward night time runners. Petzl makes some great climbing gear but their headlamps for running leave a lot to be desired when comparing to the ZL lamps.
> 
> The other light has been great as well because of how I designed it after talking with Outdoorsman5. I have used it as a second light which I sometimes carry in my hand using the hand strap...or have used it for many other things such as camping, chores around the house, etc. Love it for it's functionality and different modes.




Great post gte861s! Glad the lights are working out so well....still loving mine too & using em all over.


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