# CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour



## Klaus (Nov 30, 2001)

*CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Some might be aware of the 1000-1200 lumen project light for 50 bucks - so this older project taken as a "learning curve" the next one is warming up now.

With sofar William in the US taking care of some advanced tooling and myself taking care of the stuff inside we plan to provide the 
*Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer* or something like that soon. 

The flashlight is targeted to run for one hour at 1000+ lumens and be sized around Mag2D length but a bit larger in diameter.

The DIY pricing should be well below 100 bucks and we plan to provide all details for others to follow.

We do need some help in areas we don´t cover so far and I post this thread to see whoelse might be interested to join. Initially some guys like LEDagent and lightuser come to mind who were mumbling about some DIY HID project which BTW could also be fitted in here but so far isn´t planned from William and myself initially due to technical and economic reasons - but 1000lumens isn´t too shabby after all anyway. Also brightnorm seemed to be interested in such a thing lately.

I would also ask for possible some of the technical guys around here who are doing their circuit stuff for variuos applications as two areas could benefit from some more in-depth electronic knowledge where William and I do have shortcomings. Firstly some smart-charging circuit would come in handy as well as possibly some nice linear voltage regulation to have the bulbs run smoother. 

Such circuits have been discussed and build by CPF members and maybe someone wants to join this team for this special project which I guess will be second to none so far.

Anyone interested to join and participate ?

Regards

Klaus


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## lightuser (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

WHOA!!! COUNT ME IN!!! (But do I have the time, money, ability, space, tools, and can I get the parts, body, what else?? we'll just have to see.)

Klaus, here's what I know if it's of any help:

Wayne Johnson (from CPF) makes a high-watt linear regulator suitable for this kind of flashlight based on LT 1070 chips. Cost is very sensible and he etches them to your specs. The one I ordered is a neat device @ 1" X 3", just right for a dummy battery or a flashlight tube. It has adjustable output from 5-20V. Input can be something like three D cells or C cells. I highly highly recommend it. It's a great little thing.

I am thinking about NiMH batteries because they are superior batteries, but I haven't researched the sizes/powers available yet or which ones I will invest in. 

Next, I got a data packet from Welch Allyn on their arc bulbs but I still have some questions to resolve on their developer's kits. (you there ike?) It appears that the developer's kits contain 5 matched sets of 10 watt arc bulbs with ballasts, and you have a choice of several bulb configs, and all are just 10 watts. The problem is, what if I want an MR16 and/or a 21 watt light? I suspect they don't mix and match, and that will be a problem because 10 watts isn't a lot of light compared to what Klaus already has with his halogen project. A 21 watt arc would be one heck of a flashlight (it would put out 1500 lumens!) and it would make the project a real babe magnet too(joke). I have not stopped thinking about a halogen light although I do not consider that as exciting or appealing because it's old hat at this point.

Chargers. There is one I can recommend from experience, the "Battery Tender". It just works right, and it didn't cost much, I think $20. It does not have a tray you have to come up with some kind of hookup for it to go to the batteries. I had another smart charger get stupid on me and it ruined $30 worth of batteries before I caught it. But this one is good- it is a 6V unit and it shows solid quality of design. 

Bodies: what about custom bodies? If you get into special configurations of bulb, batteries, and circuits you have a hard time finding a Brinkman/Maglight to be the donor light. I was thinking about buying two sizes of aluminum pipe one for the head the other for the body and having a good welder do the fabrication to my specs. I found some scrap piping at the recycler here and it was in a variety of sizes. They were pulling it out of a demolition somewhere and it was apparently electrical conduit. I have had lexan lenses made on some projects and that stuff is great for sealing the "business end" of things. Drilling holes in it is easy and it's a tough material. As for end caps I think you can get large diameter fine thread taps and endplugs at better machine shops. They could do that part when they do your welding. I am thinking less than $50 here for all of that. 

Another one for ike: are the ballasts supposed to also contain linear voltage regulation? My Light Cannon seems to drop off as the batteries go down. I know the ballasts are there to strike an arc and to prevent damage from insufficient inputs, but I was not sure about this aspect. If it doesn't do that I will put want to put a regulator in my next hobby light.

Money: can't be done for less than $200 if it's an arc discharge flashlight. The bulb and ballast alone are $100 plus shipping. I'd put it more at $400 just to be realistic. A 1000 lumen halogen flashlight is possible for <$100 but it will be lacking a regulator for that much. 

So I would like to answer a few more questions about the arc discharge lights before starting on my *Blue Blaster/HunterGatherer*, but I will do it if it's possible and paste all that crap right here!!! (another joke).


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## MrAl (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Klaus, 

what kind of LED are you planning to use
on the output? or not an LED at all??

--Al


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## papasan (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

sounds like a good project and an excellent idea for a light...

unfortunatly i haven't the expertise you need in designing your circuits...i'm pretty much strungling to understand the z300 circuit, and this is a pretty simple one =)...

if some parts, pieces, etc. that aren't too hard to find are produced as a 'shopping list' i can probably build it and help to test ideas, but beyond that i won't be very helpfull...

i would, however, be interested in building something like this given time, money, etc...

i'm not sure that you would need/want/be cost effective to put a regulator on a rechargable light anyways...nimh batteries discharge fairly flatly, similar to lithiums...

i thought that ballasts are just voltage step-up transformers...in that the electricity is arced through the gasses causing them to glow which requires a high voltage but little current...like a jacob's ladder...i doubt that they regulate, probably just set up to multiply their input voltage...just a guess though...

MrAl - 
sounds like we're talking HID or HPX...it would be hard to get a LED flashlight up to 1000+ lumens...that's 56+ white LSes...


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## brightnorm (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Klaus, 

Yes, I'm very interested, but please understand that I have absolutely no knowledge or ability in this area. I can appreciate a fine light, but my technical capacity is 0. However, if these ever got to the point where you "manufactured" them in a limited run, and if in fact they were as small as a Mag 2D and ran for a hour then I would be most interested in buying one, if it wasn't outrageously expensive. Also, if flashaholics were actually successful in creating this lovely monster, perhaps there would be commercial potential in the LE/security/military areas?

Best Regards,
Brightnorm


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## Klaus (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Thanx for all responses so far - let me go into some more detail

First of all I´ll describe where we stand right now:

William did some measures and came up with some nice Aluminum (6061-T6 to be exact...what everyone calls aircraft quality aluminum) tube - the idea is to have 24 pcs of NiMh cells running a 35W Osram/Philipps high-efficiency halogen MR16 bulb (at 40W+ and 1000++ lumens) running for an hour inside this housing measuring around 10" long and 2" in diameter. Details of this are still under discussion / development.

Reason to use this bulb/cell combo is the very good efficiency, good size and in our opinion a mostly perfect compromise between all relevant aspects like output, runtime, size and cost. Think again about the main points - Mag2D size, 1000++ lumens, 1 hour runtime, low cost (sub 100 bucks).

We so far are thinking more the halogen road as opposed to HID because of the much lower cost, easier implementation, easier avaiability, less issues with on/off problems, startup delays and so on. I personally believe that HID needs to come down in price significantly and get rid of its usability problems first befor it starts to be a real competitor - so far realistically the only advantage is the in real life just 2X higher efficiency compared to the best halogens driven at their most efficient voltage (like we´re doing) - which we´re making up for in Williams smart packacking efforts.

For runtime/size compare against that HID-thing for 1500+USD talked about lately - they are at around the same output with double the claimed runtime (2 hours vs 1 hour) but measuring a whopping 2,5" to 3,5" diameter at 16" length - we will be at 2" diameter and 10" lenght.

Some of the questions raised - no LED so far due to output reasons as papasan pointed out - besides some possibel tail-end one for gimmicks was discussed but not indepth so far - would need some circuit which isn´t part of the project so far due to lack of knowledge.

Wayne Johnson´s circuit I read about and I was hoping he might join the thread to see whats going on. On voltage regulation I´m honestly not shure - with that bulb and how we are driving it its probably not essential (my "old" design doesn´t use one) - but someone with more expertise could help us in determining cost/effort/gain issues to decide on if to use such or not.

On chargers - there are also chips from Maxim and such for smart "DIY" smart chargers - problem with low priced available ones is that I fear they won´t meet the bill - as we are running the 24 NiM cells in a 2 x 12 seriel/parallel configuration to get some good 14.4 / 3.2A we need a loader for 12 cells in series (needs 18V then) and possibly loading at 1C rate (1 hour) and being smart too not to overload things - so the thing would need to be at somewhat 24V and 3,5A counting in some loss - and if someone can point us to such a thingy for 20bucks I´ll almost kill for it.

And here we are already at a some important point why I started this thread - not only to share the project with interested possible participants but also to gain some knowledge and to get some hints on where to get parts and where to look for things - hey - almost 1000 CPF members are worth more than at least 10 college educations.

William posted in a separate thread about his problems so far finding the Osram/Philips bulbs - also for tessting he was looking for some cheap MR16 bulbs - some URL I got over the time here on CPF already helped in tracking some good priced cells - but no idea where to get the MR16s - anyone can help on that ? and as well some other parts as well - like we are still looking for the right switch combo - ideal one would follow the rounded tube housing - no luck so far on those. Any help appreciated.

As William is in the US doing the mechanical part and isn´t as experienced with the electrical side and I´m sitting in europe it would be really helpful if someone in the US would join in to help William track the parts needed.

Now on to some specifics - lightuser - even if you "insist" on HID (which I guess we leave out for now as described above) you are still invited to join/share/participate as I guess most other issues we will try to solve in this project you can adapt to a HID design as well.

MrAl, papasan, - thanks for dropping by and any help on this charger / regulator issue would be highly appreciated and if you would like to participate in this project you are very much wellcome - but maybe your LED issues keep you busy and the you want to fight the battle just for LEDs sake



. Maybe Wayne will drop by too later on.

Brightnorm - for some of the things no "knowledge" is needed - as written above sometimes you just need some good input - and often enough just some "hey guys - did you think of that or Did you saw this" is making a big difference - as I saw in some of your posts you at least do have the biggest collection of high-power flashlights any in this project so far has to compare.

Good so far - thanks again for participation to this point and lets see where we are going with this thing.

Oh yes - and BTW - still missing someone ridiculous - or was it something ??





Klaus


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## lightuser (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Klaus and others I see you have a good approach to the pipe-killer project. Here's some of my silly opinions on a few of the basic issues... 

Ergonomics: I'd give some thought to using a smaller tube. I have some 2" aluminum tube and it's pretty uncomfortable for more than 20 minutes or so. After all, a D cell Maglight uses only 1 3/8" (i.d.) tubing. 1 1/2" (i.d.) should be the max if you want it to be easy to hold. In general weight can be quite high for handheld things >5 lbs. or more, but if the thing is hard to grip it will seem heavy way sooner. 2" might be hard to grip and stay comfy.

Arc discharge vs. halogen: they are good at different things and I was choosing arc based only on efficiency and performance. 

Not all aspects of performance are better as you pointed out, such as the trouble you have striking the arc. I would want this light to be <= 3 lbs. and still 1000+ lumens, which is a lot to ask and only possible with the arc technology as far as I know. 

Part of the reason I believe ike said the Dollarhunter whoops Nighthunter was so expensive was that it has an instant-on feature. For me that is not a big deal worth that kind of money, nor a disadvantage for a 21 watt arc light from W-A.

The advantages in efficiency and weight of the arc are preferable for me. The regulator is not so much to produce rectilinear output as to utilize and take advantage of the greater efficiency of the arc technology, ie. to eliminate some batteries and the associated dead weight. Whether it's twice as bright or half as heavy it just sounds wonderful to me either way. 

Arcs get more respect in public to be sure. By respect, I mean there's a better safety factor if you're handling an arc for some reason. It's unusual looking and people oblige more, and they give you more room. The cost is no biggie if we sell off some of our family members (joke). I guess they see the blueish light and think that guy's a martian.

Chargers: whatever works best. 

And now a quote from Klaus:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And here we are already at a some important point why I started this thread - not only to share the project with interested possible participants but also to gain some knowledge and to get some hints on where to get parts... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 
Answer: I thought the point of forums was to start an e-fight and generally get peed off, disgruntled, and specifically to have to change your name. This sharing caring stuff won't work at all.





(again deadly serious-)

Switches- how about a mini toggle switch from Radio Shack, because they come with little waterproof boots. They are easy to bump accidentally but you can make a little guard for them no problem.

MR 16-what was a good price? They sell low quality MR16s at home centers here for about $5 apiece. Is that too much?

Conclusion for now- whatever technology the light contains it will be a neat little pipe bomb whups I meant flashlight and I am happy to be a part of it. Your last one was a great idea and this one is going to be even better. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Mine may not start for a few weeks yet unitl I get some fatcs from W-A so yours may be the next one to win the grand finalist CPF new design prize (which will be a PAL keychain light, one pack of Boca burgers and a couple of balloons if they are still in stock).


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## MrAl (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

>>>
and if someone can point us to such a thingy for 20bucks I´ll almost kill for it.
<<<
Your looking for an awful lot for 20 bucks, can it be done?
How about an automotive charger? If you can keep the voltage
supply for this light low enough, you can make a cheap automotive
charger. Would have to be less then 12 volts. Is this possible?
On the other hand, if you have to bump up the voltage in order
to charge you are looking at another boost/regulator circuit.
Using a battery supply around 9 volts nominal would make a big
difference, can you do it with this kind of battery voltage?
Did you have a bulb (or bulbs) picked out yet?

>>>
hey - almost 1000 CPF members are worth more than at least 10 college educations.
<<<
You never know who you may find here 

I'll gladly add input if i see anything i think i can help with.
I'll check the thread from time to time, im sure other CPee's will too. It does
look interesting.

Good luck with your project,
Al


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## ElektroLumens (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*Some might be aware of the 1000-12000 lumen project light for 50 bucks - so this older project taken as a "learning curve" the next one is warming up now.

With sofar William in the US taking care of some advanced tooling and myself taking care of the stuff inside we plan to provide the 
Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer or something like that soon. 

The flashlight is targeted to run for one hour at 1000+ lumens and be sized around Mag2D length but a bit larger in diameter.

The DIY pricing should be well below 100 bucks and we plan to provide all details for others to follow.

We do need some help in areas we don´t cover so far and I post this thread to see whoelse might be interested to join. Initially some guys like LEDagent and lightuser come to mind who were mumbling about some DIY HID project which BTW could also be fitted in here but so far isn´t planned from William and myself initially due to technical and economic reasons - but 1000lumens isn´t too shabby after all anyway. Also brightnorm seemed to be interested in such a thing lately.

I would also ask for possible some of the technical guys around here who are doing their circuit stuff for variuos applications as two areas could benefit from some more in-depth electronic knowledge where William and I do have shortcomings. Firstly some smart-charging circuit would come in handy as well as possibly some nice linear voltage regulation to have the bulbs run smoother. 

Such circuits have been discussed and build by CPF members and maybe someone wants to join this team for this special project which I guess will be second to none so far.

Anyone interested to join and participate ?

Regards

Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Klaus,
For some reason I hadn't noticed this thread until now. I haven't been on the forum too much the past few days. Anyway lightuser mentioned the regulator board I made for him using the LT1070 IC. I designed it to handle 3 amps. It can be designed to hanle up to 5 amps, with proper component selection. This is an older chip, but it works. I am looking at many different chips and designs, both step up and step down technology. These are not lossy regulators but switching regulators, which are more efficient.

I am kind of new at designing these regulators, but they seem to work fine. I am working on making them smaller and more efficient. Let me know if you want me to design you a board. I'm having a lot of fun doing this. Email me with specifics (board size, current requirements, battery type, etc.)


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## Klaus (Dec 9, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Hi Wayne,

sorry for late response but I was busy otherwise

Coming back to the regulation - I have two questions on it you might be willing to discuss with us to see if there is actually really sense in using them in this project

Firstly we are using NiMhs which do have a pretty flat discharge curve to begin with - also as we are using 12 cells the voltage starts at around 15V under load and goes down to around 12V until the cells get pretty drained - then it really drops fast. The bulbs are rated at 12V but with thousands of hours of burn time so this shouldn´t hurt.

Did you read Willie Hunts writing on those MR16 bulbs ? I understand him in a way that he also doesn´t really recommend the LVR for this type of bulbs. My other concerns are that we would be losing probable 10%+ capacity due to circuit efficiency loss and would need quite some space for the circuit. We are trying to squeeze everything in a very tiny package (relatively speaking) and the other concern is the runtime - I would think that we won´t gain any runtime as the cells get pretty drained anyway and probably lose 10%+ .

Could you comment on this ideas / thoughts ?

Something else - didn´t you in a short comment mention that you built up charging circuits using different Maxim chips or was this someone else - don´t remember exactly.

TIA

Klaus


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## lightuser (Dec 9, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Klaus, I agree with you about regulators in a light like this, and I've changed my mind after doing some tests here. My original idea was to use a regulator in place of some of the batteries to save weight and space, but I see that a regulator can't step up amperages to be useful enough for these hungry bulbs and it takes up space and uses power too. I would still try and see if this thing could be an arc discharge flashlight though, if at all possible. Maybe I am aiming too high, since few or no manufacturers to date have made a compact D Maglight-style arc flashlight and mass-produced it. The voltage has to be pretty high for either halogen or arc discharge bulb, around 13 volts, which can be done with four times four AA-each battery packs. Is this what you were thinking? I can see doing this especially if they can stay in the tube during charging. Either way. You have two packs in series, parallel with the other two packs to get about 13 volts at the end where the bulb or ballast is. It is a good arrangemnent for this voltage. What size tube? I really think it should be a 1 15/16" or "D cell" tube, for ergonomic reasons.


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## Klaus (Dec 9, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

lightuser - did you read the other thread with my 2D sized first project - there I used 3 pairs of 4AAs - 12 cells IMO is the perfect fit for an MR16 to run nice. For this prohect we are targetting at 24pcs of NiMhs as we want 1h runtime for the 35W bulb (driven at 40-45W) and anyway needed 24pcs NiMh as 12NiMhs dropped to low whereas 12NiCd were doing fine but can´t supply the capacity.

24pcs would fit either in a 4D mag when switch/bulb assy is removed (as in my 2D with 12pcs) or in a 5D with the switch still in - William didn´t wanted the huge size (length) of the 5D and is designing his own housing using a tube at approx 10" length and 2" diameter to fit the 24pcs of 24AA cells.

As I pointed out I also would love the HID for efficiency but besides this "too cheap for me" Nighhunter thing at 1500 bucks, the rumours from Brock about some Mag-sized novelty "soon-to-come" and PeLus plans to do a mag 2D sized WA-HID using 8 NiMhs I´m not aware of other items available. As I wrote earlier for now the price and ease-of-use of the MR16 makes me go with it - so also no problems with start-up, run-down, blown ballasts whatsoever - maybe I´m just too stupid for a HID project too





On the diameter - my modified 2D Mag/Brinkmann got that soft grip sleeve and is almost at 2" - still fine to hold - but this will certainly depend on the size of your hands - mine I think are hmmh average - William tried the 2" diameter tube and said its fitting great to his hands - the nighthunter is even at 2,5" diameter.

Mr. Al - the charger would need around 18V to load 12 cells in series - the automotive ones are upto 13,8 and I think they are not really smart enough to perfetly load NiCds or NiMhs anyway - still working on that - for now I might use my "dumb" one from a US robotics modem and William may use his tool charger until we find something better.

Klaus


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## LightBright (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Klaus, you may want to consider Li-ion cells for your project, as far as I know they are the highest Wh per Liter (about 350), only Lithium primary batteries have a higher power density.


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## Klaus (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Lightbright,

you are certainly right on Li-ion´s advantages - but then William and I would need a very generous sponsor for the cells



and a different and more expensive charger as well .... I think if you add cost to the weight/capacity equation nothing can beat the NiMhs.

Klaus


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

I HAVE A FEW IDEAS, LET ME SHARE THEM WHITH YOU. HAVE U GUYS THOUGHT OF USING OSRAM MR16 
TRU AIM IR 37W. THEY SAY IT'S AS BRIGHT AS 50W, IT ALSO HAS A LENS.AS FOR THE BATERRIES
THERE IS A BATERRY HOLDER AVAILABLE FROM RADIO SHACK FOR 4 AND 8 AA CELLS, AFTER SLIGHT MODIFICATION THEY FIT NICLY IN D CELL FLASHLIGHTS. IT ALSO VERY CONVINIANT TO CHARGE CELLS SEPARATLY FROM THESE HOLDERS OR THE WHOLE THING COULD BE HOOKED TO A SELF MADE CHARGER.I'M NOT SURE WHAT PART NUMBER OF THE HOLDERS ARE BUT I'LL POST THEM LATER.


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

kenshiro 
THE REASON THEY DONT FIT IS THAT CELLS DON'T TOUCH EACH OTHER,IF U CUT OUT PLASTIC IN BETWEEN THEM, JUST ENOUGH FOR THEM TO TOUCH EASH OTHER ,AND MAKE FRONT AND BACK OF THE HOLDER ROUNDER IT'LL FIT NICELY, ALSO CUT OFF THE TABS ABOUT 0.25 IN. I WISH I HAD A SCANER OR DIGITAL CAMERA TO SHOW U GUYS HOW I DID IT, BUT I'LL THINK OF A WAY TO SHOW IT TO U.


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## Klaus (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

alpg,

thanks for your input - we are pretty much at where you are leading us - you might also check out the older thread regarding the 1000+ lumens project light where the first one was explained in more detail.

best regards

Klaus


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## Kenshiro (Dec 13, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Alpg,
I've tried those radioshack battery holders..... they don't fit!
What kind of "slight" modification are you talking about?


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## Klaus (Dec 20, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Update:

We are getting closer - tooling is moving forward - electrical stuff is being sorted out - smart charger is added - power supply selection done - this one will be awesome.

With the help of the rerating tool Ike from WA sent (thanks Ike) I was calculating the averages for the overdriven Osram MR16 bulb - keep in mind that the Osram IRC bulb itself is very efficient to start with - being overdriven things get even better.

voltage 12V to 14V so some 15% up on average for calculation (starts at 15 down to 13 - most of the time around 14V)
rerated life 5000h to 950h - still loooots of hours - typical flashlight bulbs are at 20h or so
rerated current 2900ma to 3150ma (I even see a bit more than that - around 3330ma)
rerated candlepower :hold your breat: 900 lumens to 1500 lumens - I mean I knew it was bright

Just to confirm this theoretical data - today I tried one of those MillionCandlepower things with one laaarge reflector running off SLA and using a 55W H3 bulb - this thing was no comparison - PERIOD !!!! The beam of the old 2D DIY light was much whiter, brighter, smoother, and had a much larger and more even hotspot - and all this in the much smaller package and weight and much brighter and similar runtime





Wait ´til you see the new one





Klaus


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

klaus.
in your previos topic you said that meg-lite is expensive in germany. exactly how much does it cost. Also are the 1/2d nicd easy to come by there and how much they are? I also need your opinion on one thing,what if one uses 3.6v lithium D xenon bulb xp104 and rigtwright film on the lens of 2D meglite.Theoreticly it sould be as bright as 4d mag with sure-fire like beam patern, not bad i think,
the cost: baterries about 10USD each,bulb 2USD light 15-20 USD film 30USD will buy you enough film to use on 30 lights. And also how is that project movig along. I cant wait to see results. if the light would come out as good as you said, and wouldn't be outgegiosly expensive i would consider buying it, or parts.


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## Klaus (Dec 27, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

alpg,

the mags are around the double cost here - like if the dollar to euro conversion is 1:2 instead of roughly 1:1 - even thinking all transportation and duty and such its insane - in my business area (computers) we had such siutations more than 10 years ago and it changed dramatically - now the pricing is pretty much equivalent - can´t wait to have such for our "toys" as well.

The 1/2Ds are somewhat rare but when asked for the shops can order them - I had been mostly interested in NiMhs though - the 1/2D NiCds haven´t been improved in years it seems.

On the 2D with 2 Lithium D cells - shure your output would potentially be similar to a 4D but at a very high running cost as the D lithiums are very expensive and I think I read that those cells also don´t handle higher loads very well - but not shure on that. My solution for the 2/3D lights is to use rechargeable NiCs/NiMhs and higher output bulbs like Halogens / Xenons - but still thinking about using like 5 1/2Ds instead of 3 D´s in one Mg3D to try out.

Project light - humming along - William is finishing the housing and right now we seem to only lack the perfect switch - most other issues are sorted out pretty much - for the result output-wise you can pretty much compare to the "old" one - its just that the new one will be 1 hour runtime as we are using the double # of higher cap cells.

Klaus


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## ElektroLumens (Dec 27, 2001)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by alpg:
*kenshiro 
THE REASON THEY DONT FIT IS THAT CELLS DON'T TOUCH EACH OTHER,IF U CUT OUT PLASTIC IN BETWEEN THEM, JUST ENOUGH FOR THEM TO TOUCH EASH OTHER ,AND MAKE FRONT AND BACK OF THE HOLDER ROUNDER IT'LL FIT NICELY, ALSO CUT OFF THE TABS ABOUT 0.25 IN. I WISH I HAD A SCANER OR DIGITAL CAMERA TO SHOW U GUYS HOW I DID IT, BUT I'LL THINK OF A WAY TO SHOW IT TO U.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey alpg,
Thanks for your input here. I tried modifying this battery pack before, I rounded the outside of the ends, but I didn't think to cut the inside separators to make it narrower. I cut the outside part that holds the batteries. Not only did it not fit very well in a 'D' cell flashlight, the batteries kept falling out, so I had to use tape to hold them in. I have another 8 AA holder and I'll try it your way. It seems your way will work fine.


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## lightlover (Jan 3, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*... someone ridiculous - or was it something ??





Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Klaus, du bist ein Wunderkind !

(Link to Klaus's old Topic: 1000-1200 lumen rechargeable project light for 50$ @ http://www.candlepowerforums.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=000772&p=1 )
(Not actually "1000-*12000* lumen project light for 50 bucks" as posted in Klaus's first message in this topic



)

Checking out this new Topic of yours sure makes me want to try out the ideas. Let me add my technical unsophistication to the comments - please ? Forgive me if this turns out to be nonsense.

The target you've set is 1,000 Lu for one hour, which is brilliant in a small ~2D sized unit. "Second to none" is about right ! 
I'd like to construct a similar light, (and I look forward to the success of your ready-made), but I want to do it in a Silver Mag-Lite 3D. The reasons for that are -

1. An MR16 fits almost perfectly within the head, and allows for Silicone shock-insulation 
2. It's my favourite size of Mag-Lite 
3. It's everyone's favourite size of Mag-Lite 
4. There is more space for experimentation/mistakes than a 2D 
5. Some extra space for a HID ballast is allowed for, in a future project
6. There will be enough space for an LVR, if and when
7. The Lexan lens can easily be replaced with a Mag-Charger glass
8. It's ready made and relatively cheap for a classy-looking body with good ergonomics

I'm thinking that a even (!!!) a 20-30 minute runtime would suit me, for such an output. The smooth whiteness of the beam appeals to me too. And it's very easy to get different 12V MR16's with the standard 2 pin fitting, so spot beams of 7 degrees, or flood at 60 degrees is possible at the change of a 10W to 100W+ bulb. Daylight colour temperature MR16's are readily available, and that's a very attractive thought. As you say, 4x AA's will fit side-by side into a D-cell chamber quite easily.
You've talked about the Voltage necessary, that 12V isn't enough - you seem to be saying 14V is better and increases a 12V MR16's output from 900 lumens to 1500 lumens ? So 9x AA's would do, or is 12 AA's essential ?
9x 1.5 = 13.5V, 12x 1.5 = 18V - using NiCads ? 
(Then I would possibly make up two battery packs for a quick change.)
Sorry, I'm electrically dyslexic ...... 

For soldering the AA's together, are you using tabs, which then fold together quite easily, and stabilise the tube ? Then, just a tape could hold them into a pack, saving diameter size. Perhaps permanently gluing them together lengthwise on the inside/centrally touching faces, once assembled, using a rod of "something structural". Then the charger would have to be able to charge them as a pack only, with an extension or something.

For some members, using a separate head / separate battery pack, perhaps a SLA, would be easier, and a cool-looking curly cable could be installed to take the power to the head/hand-held unit.

Regarding the switch, the Mag switch can easily be removed. Then the switch cover could be glued on to hide an uprated push switch. If not, my substitute for the switch would be a toggle switch: because I like the look.
OR: a key-operated switch ! - I think that these would look cool, just a little bit raised from flush with the body, and only about 10-15mm 1/2" deep into the barrel. The "security" "short round key" type switch can easily allow for 2-4 positions, possibly facilitating the battery pack to be split up into a main and a reserve or a LED choice.

Isn't it the case that all MR16's are dichroic, that is, they put out the light through the lens, and the heat back through the reflector. (So a separate torch lens may not be necessary, as they are sealed units. Unless the MR16 would shatter if rained on ? )

Heat-sinking. My thoughts on this were that a length of bare copper wire wound to fill the head would provide extra mass to dissipate the heat. If I can find a heat conducting glue, the stuff would consolidate it into a "nest" for the MR16. A heat transfer compound would complete the head heat-sinking "system". Perhaps without the glue, a wire wound "springily" inside the head might afford some shock-isolation too.

Hand-grip: I thought of a wiring "cage" to spiral wrap around the body, giving a non-slip grip, and leaving a circulation space around the body of the flashlight, while spacing your hand away. This might be difficult to make and still look OK too though. But it would allow the batteries to lose current-weakening heat. I'm not sure about the neoprene sleeve ...

Shock and vibration - I have various pieces of Silicone "rubber" strip to use for isolation. I was thinking of lining around the edge of the MR16, to fit it properly in the Mag face-cap. Then, spacing out the small two-pin base, with copper wire wound around it. If that were then Silicone strip shock-insulated too, you would have a "suspended", nearly-floating LA. As you know, Silicone is heat resistant to 300+°C.

All my ideas lately have been marked failures, so be truthful, but kind ......

lightlover


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## BuddTX (Jan 3, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*Some might be aware of the 1000-12000 lumen project light for 50 bucks 

The flashlight is targeted to run for one hour at 1000+ lumens and be sized around Mag2D length but a bit larger in diameter.

*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would it involve Jet Rocket Fuel & Liquid Oxygen at high pressure?

Maybe a hand held nuclear reactor?

Will someone trying to build one of these things end up as a winner of one of those "Darwin Awards?"

Just having some fun, I'd like to build one!


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## Klaus (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Jahn,
Budd,

LOL - you catched that one

12000 lumen I guess could almost qualify as a photondrive for a starship though - but seriously the thing for the first two minutes and 15V is at ~ 2000lumen based on overdriving calculations from WA / Ike.




So while its no photondrive it should do OK as a lighsaber 

Klaus


----------



## Klaus (Jan 5, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Jahn,


Mag 3D is OK for 12 pcs AA - problem is that using NiMhs for high-cap the voltage drops - so for 12 NiMhs I would recommend the 20W bulb version - OSRAM or Philips IRC ones for the high efficiency in any case. You would get 1 hour runtime at 500-700 lumens though.

If you want the 1500 lumens and 3D size you need to go for 12 NiCds but at lower capacity like in my original 2D design.

Voltage - under heavy load (and 2-3 amps is quite heavy for a AA) the voltage drops to around 1.1/1.2V - so with 12 cells the running voltage is starting at 15V down to around 13V for an average of approx 14V - this is very nice for the output of the MR16 and life is still much more than for normal bulbs anyway. As 12 fit well in the space of 3D I went that way - actually 11 might have worked but 10 was too low voltage-wise.

AA soldering - used tabs last time but might be using direct cell soldering this time - not shure yet. And yes - the charger is charging them as a pack - while installed.

SLA - inferior to NiMhs/NiCd on weight/cap.

Switch is always the issue - on the 2D I removed it as I needed the space - for a 3D you could leave it in and use it - for the new big one we are not decided yet.

MR16 - the normal ones yes - so we have too much heat backwards - the Osram IRC is not available (yet) in a "cold" or "hot-beam" version so we have to live which what we have for now - and yes they have a lens.

Heat-sinking - hmmh - we are looking into this

Hand-grip - agree on the neoprene - not shure on it but had bothing better so far - Kogatana used skateboard tape for a LX mod and it looked good IMO. Wiring cage ? Hmmh.

No real issue so far with shock and isolation - we aren´t planning a weapon-mounted device yet



- the spacing isn´t an issue as in the 2D Brinkmann head the MR16 was fitting nicely and not as loose as in the Mag and the new one William is designing to fit - but for a Mag-mod you are right.

CU & thx for input

Klaus


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## lightlover (Jan 5, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Klaus:
*Jahn, 
... thx for input

Klaus*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Input - all I've got is more questions !! (Danke, Klaus.)

So, I start with 12x 1.5V AA NiCads of capacity 900mAh, not higher. Unless they have a sintered anode - I can just see myself asking the guy in the shop that: "Could you please tell me if these AA NiCads have a sintered anode ?". 
Actually, anyone know what the highest capacity sintered NiCads are ? 

Do they actually *have* to be soldered together ? Why is that ?





QUOTE "connect always 2 cells parallel and then these 2packs in a row. If you use 1000mAh cells (preferably from SANYO) this makes a 12V/2000mAh Accupack." /QUOTE
(I think the quote is from Phantomas, or Klaus.)
How about other series/parallel arrangements, is there anything else which is practical ?
I take it that as NiMh's are also quite difficult to charge, so NiCads would be easier for me to play around with.

I assume that the AA's do have to be soldered, but it may be much easier for me to use them as separates. I can bodge up a holder for them, I think. If I solder them all together, what specifications of charger do I need for that - I'll work something out once I know. I think that it might be easier with my *skills*, if I recharge the pack/s out of the body.
I've tested it, and with a little work, I can get 16, maybe 18-20 AA's in there, but are there are any advantages to that - if there is an LVR, perhaps more runtime ?
Sorry if this is repeating questions yet again ...

So, 12AA's will at ~15V overdrive a 12V 35W MR16, rated at 900 Lu, to an actual 1,500 Lu for a 15 minute constant runtime !! (If using the Osram IRC or the Philips ES range). 
Do you think that the existing 3D Mag-Lite switch will handle that ? I was told it couldn't without fireworks.

I can get heat transfer compound, but what about heat transferring glue - anyone know sources for this stuff ?

About the lens, I appreciate that the MR16 is sealed, but will it withstand being rained on while in use for instance ?

lightlover :determined:


----------



## Klaus (Jan 6, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Jahn,

I think the max for Sinter NiCd AA is 1000ma - I used the 900ma as they were on sale - Phantomas used Panasonic 1000ma´s.

I posted a link to NiCd/NiMh information from the EC where the differences and how things are designed are explained in the older topic - like why NiMh have more cap than NiCd and such.

Soldered - yes and no - you could design whatever holder for them as alpg described here - my problem was that the 4AA fit very nicely and I didn´t wanted to have contact problems - the holders typically aren´t designed for such high currents and the ones I tested got VERY hot as the spring/cell connections were lousy and added lots of resistance and therefor heated up quite a bit.

What Phantomas described were 20 NiCd cells in seriell/parallel instead of my 24 NiMhs - what he means is that you need 10/12 in series and two of these "rows" in parallel. The ones in series give you the higher voltage and the parallel setup doubles the capacity.
Serial V1+V2=Vx - Parallel A1+A2=Ax

Charging NiCd/NiMhs - I found actually not much difference in the end between those two - the one thing you have to consider is that NiMhs have MORE problems when overcharged and its tougher to detect the overcharge situation as the voltage drop when at >100% cap is smaller than with NiCd.

Charger - for 12 cells in series all you need to start with is a power supply spitting out 18V - this is what I used initially - now we are switching over to 24V supplies and a DIY smart charger circuit in between - so you see we are improving.

LVR - we discussed that - posted on this topic in the other thread - IMO not much gain for some efficiency loss - also space and cost considerations weighted against it.

Which body you want to get 16-20 AA in - in the 3D with switch/bulb assy installed max IMO is 12 - 16 when removing the switch/bulb.

The 35W bulbs used that way are around 3A - didn´t tried it yet but I looked inside the switch and I THINK it should be able to handle 3A - Phantomas changed his but he was running a 75W bulb which is >6A.

Heat transfering glue - typically used to glue heat sinks on processors in the PC world - there is a two component one from Thermalloy named Thermalbond (#4951) I used for years for that (unfortunately its dryed out now) but there should be others too.

You can dump the MR16 in water if you want - this thing is as sealed as it can be - just the contacts at the end would need some special consideration





Klaus


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## Jonathan (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Klaus,

I've been following this thread for a while, and I figure that it is time for me to add my two cents.

My interest is bicycle lighting, and I was directed to CPF from the 'bikecurrent' mailing list. I have some experience building NiMH powered halogen lighting systems, including selecting proper batteries while giving consideration both to capacity and to internal resistance, and I've built my own PIC based PWM voltage regulator to run my headlights. I only have poor experience (so far!) with soldering battery packs, and I've never built a housing, so I'm looking to learn more!

I am extremely interested in the Decostar lamps, since they seem to be able to give the small HID systems a serious run for their money, at much lower cost. Does anyone here know of a US distributor of the Decostar lamps, or a company with reasonable shipping charges to the US? Should I be looking under a different brand name (eg. Sylvania or Phillips) rather than Osram for these sort of IRC lamps?

I think that I can add some serious useful information on the use of LVR type voltage regulators for these sort of high wattage battery powered lighting systems.

The first thing to note is that the LVR type voltage regulators do not produce a nice smooth DC output. Instead they pulse width modulate the full battery voltage, so that the lamp sees full battery voltage for some amount of time, and then nothing for a bit, and then the cycle repeats. The root mean square voltage that the lamp sees is what is regulated, and since a lamp is a resistive load, this means that the average power delivered to the lamp is regulated. 

Because there are no components there to smooth out either the input current nor the output voltage, the efficiency of the LVR itself is far better than one expects for a DC/DC converter; in a 20W lighting system, the losses in the LVR type regulator will be a fraction of a watt, and the efficiency will be better than 99%. The PWM frequency will be in the 100s of Hz, so the lamp will do a fine job of averaging out the input power. The only significant loss possibility is in the batteries themselves.

As you already know from designing high power lighting systems, as you place higher current on a battery, the battery output voltage will drop. This voltage drop is a loss term, pure and simple. When you use an LVR type regulator, the current only flows from the battery to the lamp for part of the time, but during this time period more current flows. The net result is that battery voltage drop losses are increased when you use an LVR type regulator. If you select a battery voltage that is only slightly higher than the desired output voltage, then this loss term will be minimized, but if you select a battery voltage that is twice your desired output voltage (a serious design error in the system that I am currently running) then these losses will be significant.

There are several important benefits to using an LVR type regulator. 
1) Dimup: when the lamp is first turned on, its resistance is about 1/10 that of its full running resistance. So there is a tremendous inrush current that is something like 10x the normal running current. If there are any thin spots on the filament, this is when they will burn through. By starting the lamp at much less than full voltage, you can greatly reduce this startup transient. Since LVR type regulators always place full battery voltage on the output, you can only partly reuce this startup transient, by pulsing the lamp on very briefly. The regulator's transistor must also be sized to carry the startup current
2) Low Current Switching: The main lamp power is carried by the regulator's transistor, and does not need to go through a mechanical switch. You can turn the lamp on and off using a logic level switch connected to the regulator.
3) Precise Lamp Voltage Setting: While NiCd and NiMH batteries are well known to have 'flat' discharge curves. However for high power lighting applications, the initial voltage droop to the plateau can be something like 1/3 of the discharge, and the plateau will be 1/2 of the discharge. Not very stable. With a regulator, the lamp sees _constant_ power for the full discharge cycle. Since the efficiency of a halogen scales as the square of the voltage, precise lamp power selection is critical for getting your target efficiency.

With these things in mind, I'd suggest going with a 2x14 set of AA cells, rather than 2x12. The output of the battery would then be regulated to 14.5 or 15 volts. This would permit constant power operation from an initial battery voltage of nearly 19V to a well discharged 15V. Without the regulator you are using 2x12 cells, starting operation at nearly 16V, and then discharging to below 13V, with about half of the discharge being at a nice 14V. 

The selection of 15V is based upon the nominal 4000 hour life of the Decostar lamps; operating at 1.25 nominal voltage, I would expect about 7% nominal life, which plays well with the 1 hour run time from the batteries. The 1.25 overvolting gives an expected power level of 1.42, so the 35W lamp would be run at nearly 50W, and an expected luminosity of about 2.2. 

The rerated 280 hour life plays well with the battery life and life span. Over the course of 1000 charge/discharge cycles, you would replace the bulb 3 - 6 times over the life of the batteries. The selection of 14 cells means that the battery voltage is not too much greater than the desired lamp voltage, so the PWM duty cycle will for the most part be about 75%, and losses in the batteries will not be increased excessively. 

One of the really nice features of using a regulator is that you can adjust the output voltage to get the desired lamp efficiency and life; without a regulator you can choose to increase or decrease the number of cells, but you don't get the setting accuracy that you get with the regulator. Additionally, your operating voltage doesn't change as the batteries age or you build another copy of the lamp with different batteries from a different manufacturing batch or company.

In terms of where to place the batteries, a 'cylinder' of 6 cells occupies roughly the same diameter as a 'cylinder' of 7 cells. So if you were planning on having 4 bundles of 6 cells to make you 2x12 battery array, you could fit 4 bundles of 7 cells to make a 2x14 battery array.

A critical issue associated with having a 2xN battery array happens during charging. Both NiCd and NiMH cells show voltage depression during charging. If you are charging two parallel strings, and one charges first, then its voltage will fall, and it will start 'hogging' the current that should be going to the other string. For charging, the current into each battery string needs to be set separately, or at the very least some balance needs to be maintained, perhaps through ballast resistors. During discharge, both battery strings will tend to equalize, so they should come to full charge at roughly the same time, so you could set current independently but terminate fast charge to both strings at the same time.

Best Regards,
Jonathan Edelson


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## lightlover (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Jonathan , a very clearly written exposition - I almost understand it !!
I'm sure that it will repay further study. But leaving aside LVR issues for the moment ......

Klaus, heat transferring glue - I found some in a PC overclocking store, at a shocking price, ~$17 for a two-part, in very small tubes.

The MR16's are sealed, waterproof, but I can hardly believe that they would take kindly to being rained on when lit up: thermal shock would presumably shatter them ?

I can get 16 AA Nicad's into an existing 3D body, with a little work around the tailcap threads. Maybe 20, with a different switch fitted. Looks like 14 would be a cinch, without modifying the body/tailcap "interface".
So that's 14x 1.5 = 21V, rather than 12x 1.5 = 18V.
As I understand it, the voltage will certainly drop under the load of the MR16, to what value ?
Without using an LVR, will 14 cells be an advantage ?
A lamp life of even ~100 hours would be OK for me, especially given a 2.2x usual Lu output from a 35W.

lightlover


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## Jonathan (Jan 13, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

>I can get 16 AA Nicad's into an existing 3D body, with a little work around 
>the tailcap threads. Maybe 20, with a different switch fitted. Looks like 14 
>would be a cinch, without modifying the body/tailcap "interface".
>So that's 14x 1.5 = 21V, rather than 12x 1.5 = 18V.
>As I understand it, the voltage will certainly drop under the load of the 
>MR16, to what value ?

The open circuit voltage of an alkaline cell is 1.5V; of a lithium AA cell (of the chemistry _usually_ used for AA cells) is also 1.5V, but for an NiMH or NiCd cell, the 'open circuit voltage' is normally given as 1.2 or 1.25V..._except_ that when freshly charged you may see as much as 1.4V per cell.

Running 14 cells, the normal operating voltage would be about 16.8V, but the initial startup voltage might be as high as 19V...which would kill the bulb _very_ quickly. 

>Without using an LVR, will 14 cells be an advantage ?
>A lamp life of even ~100 hours would be OK for me, especially given a 2.2x 
>usual Lu output from a 35W.

IMHO, without the LVR, running with 14 cells would kill the bulb far too quickly, although not so much in decreased expected life, but on startup. The startup surge would be almost double the current that the bulb normally deals with, and the surge power at any 'hot spots' would be about 3x what they would be with normal starting voltage. I would give 1 in 5 odds that the bulb would die at any given turn-on after full charge. Now, one might use two switches, and first switch the bulb on in series with a resistor, or connected only to a subset of the batteries, and then go full on. The preheat would raise the bulb resistance to the normal operating range, and would eliminate the startup surge. 

If you are willing to run with a 100 hour bulb life, you might consider using the 20W Decostar, pushed even harder. You would need even more than 14 cells, as you would want an operating voltage of about 16 volts, under load. This would require something between 14 and 15 cells, depending upon state of charge and number of cells in parallel. The 20W Decostar pushed at 16 volts would be operating at 31 watts, but producing 2.8x the normal output of the 20 W lamp.

In general, the harder you push a lamp, the greater the efficiency and the shorter the life, and using a low wattage lamp pushed to a higher wattage level will produce greater light output than starting with a high wattage lamp...but with much less life expectancy. Dimup becomes more of an issue the harder you push the lamps.

(Please note: I am pulling numbers out of my a** based upon standard halogen lamp re rating formulas and the tabulated data for the Decostar lamps. The more you push a lamp, the more these formulas go wrong, and Decostar lamps are not what these formulas expect anyway. Use this information as a guideline only, not as gospel truth!)

-Jon <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


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## pwell (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous ?:
*I can get heat transfer compound, but what about heat transferring glue - anyone know sources for this stuff ?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes! We use thermal adhesive to stick non-standard heatsinks onto computer chipsets and video cards. It comes in two separate tubes like epoxy. It transfers heat very well.

Try looking for it on computer hardware sites specializing in cooling, here for example
https://zalmantech.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=other

Cheers


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## lightlover (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

pwell, you've returned to OZ !!

That's like the stuff I found, a very silver-filled stuff.

But look at the prices, ~$17 over here for one choice only, in the UK, and $3.95 to $13.95 for 3 choices at that link.
https://zalmantech.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=other

And it's difficult to see the differences between the 3 "epoxy-type" alternatives there. Any ideas as to which is the most appropriate for heat transfer from a wound round Copper Wire to an Aluminium body ?

lightlover














This project isn't too easy for me to deal with - on any level ......


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Jonathan,
Very interesting info regarding the LVR stuff. Sounds like you know your stuff. Klaus and I asked about the LVR stuff before, but we couldn't really see enough benefit compared to the money or the space it would take up. I think we're still open to input here though. How big are the ones you have made? 
You are correct on the 6 cells vs. 7 cells space wise. We are actually using 2 stacks with 7 cells and then spacing the others out to package the switch, bulb, and charging plug. 7 cells on all the stacks would just add the "saved" space that we made with the careful packaging (probably would add about 2" to the overall length).
As for the Decostar bulbs...I looked up light bulbs on the Yellow Pages web site and found several places around here (Atlanta) that deal only in light bulbs. One had plenty of MR16 types, but not the Decostars. They are ordering them for me, but I haven't got them yet due to back-ordering. I looked all over the net for some, but no one seemed to sell those online. Make sure they order off of the part number on the OSRAM pdf. The shop was trying to sell me some regular Sylvania that they said were the same. I had to argue with them a bit before they gave up and said they would order the part number that I wanted.
William


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## Jonathan (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Regarding the PWM voltage regulator that I built, it was about 2cm by 3cm, on a breadboard. I believe that I can build one that is about 1.2cm by 3cm if I get a printed circuit board made. The ones that Willie hunt make are much smaller, but he uses surface mount components for mass production ease, and I want to be able to use socketed 8 pin dips so that I can reprogram and play. I also wanted to use a large transistor for low losses at high current.

The parts cost for a self built regulator is under 15 dollars, under 8 if you use 'one time programmable' chips.

In terms of the packing, I was wondering about having the lamp right next to heat sensitive things like the batteries. It seems that having a lamp running at 40-50W inside of a small tube is somewhat asking for trouble, and was thinking about extending the 'lighting head' away from the 'electronics body', simply by extending the tube and drilling some holes in it. This introduces the problem of sealing the 'electronics body' in the middle of the tube, but the lighting head can now be permitted to get substantially hotter than when it is directly connected.

In terms of sealing, I tend to like the idea of a water tight flashlight, but it is generally considered a bad idea to recharge batteries in a sealed container, since the batteries can produce hydrogen gas. Is your prototype sealed or open? I guess that the sealing is only a serious issue if you are 'quick charging' the batteries.

Finally, about buying lamps: was Klaus about to actually buy the appropriate Decostar lamps in Germany? When I looked online for Decostar IRC, I found some price lists but none in English, and I came across one bicycle lighting dealer that seems to sell _some_ of the Decostar lamps:
NZ Bike Lighting Supplier
-Jon


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## pwell (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *something ridiculous ?:
*https://zalmantech.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=other

And it's difficult to see the differences between the 3 "epoxy-type" alternatives there. Any ideas as to which is the most appropriate for heat transfer from a wound round Copper Wire to an Aluminium body ?
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its great to be back in OZ!

I'd go for the "Arctic Alumina Permium Thermal Adhesive" because its says its non conductive. BTW, what is the wound round copper wire for? I know the guy at the store so might be able to get it cheaper 

I purchaased the following lights in Korea and would like to barter some (3) for other lights with CPF members (They arent worth very much, so sending money would be a bit inefficient).

5 x OSRAM DECOSTAR 44870SP, 10d, 50W, 12V

Tried very very hard to find OSRAM DECOSTAR 35W, 10 degrees, but no luck. 
I'd also like to get 20W, 10 degrees.

I went to a camping store and saw a $50 2D Mag sitting there. I was ready to buy it, but couldn't bear the thought of ripping it appart. It seems Brinkman lights are not available here. Looking for a used 2D Mag now...


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

That size voltage regulator sounds good. The price is good too. Hmmm, maybe we need something like this. I guess we still would have to look at the trade off of the extra cells being added.

Can you use these regulators as switches? dimmers? that slow start thing you spoke of? 

I too am a bit worried about the heat of this thing. I was worried more about the cells though. I get what you mean about the head being moved away. That would be a good idea. We discussed a ventilated head for it before, but the water-proofness part killed that. I think we'll just have to see what the prototypes do.

As for the charging of the cells in the sealed container...I've got mixed thoughts there. The prototypes will have a romoveable end cap. You'll have to take this cap off to charge (charge port under the cap). This will un-seal the container. The container will be sealed during dis-charge though, but hopefully this won't matter. Does anyone know what the Mag Charger does about this? I just looked at one last night to see how they charged it. I can't believe they use the 2 metal strips on the outside, but its kind of neat. The Mag is pretty sealed, right?

I believe Klaus has bought the Decostars in Germany. That link to the NZ bike place was cool. They look like some really good lights for the money. I wonder how big the batteries are. The dimmer was real neat. Can you make a LVR that does something like those?

William


----------



## sunspot (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

I'm willing to do a local search for Decostar blub(s). Please give me the part numbers and specs that are wanted.
Dana


----------



## Klaus (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Hi all,

jeeze - one week away and this thread comes to live as if you waited for me being gone





@Jonathan - thanks for your "enlighting" words of wisdom - I had been looking into Willie Hunts LVRs and also looked into the MTB scene and the LVRs used there. The so-far decision not to use one was based on the mentioned loss/size/cost considerations as well as the unavaiability besides other CPF members input we had on it already. My experience with the actual 2D design is pretty good without but I could imagine a LVR definetely adding some nice touch to it. And as we wouldn´t need the PIC to be reprogrammable 8 bucks sounds great IMO. You already took away the fears of losing to much efficiency - costwise 8 bucks too is good enough - maybe William can find some space somewhere if its small enough



- but I think we should finish the first prototyps and then see how we can improve - still learning ....

And you are very wellcome to join in - oh and yes - you are right that the charging of the two parallel strings is sub-optimal - but as William wanted 1 hour runtime AND the 35W bulb I had limited choice - do the math - the only alternative I thought about had been 10-12 (maybe 11) subC cells of 3000ma or so but I have no experience with them so I stayed with the AAs which I new work fine in this configuration - charging-wise I think/hope that IF the cells charge uneven the higher resistance of the more-charged string will balance out as more current will go to the less-charged string - I might be wrong but we´ll see - I know its not optimal but every other solution would add a lot of cost or size or both - the whole project light is a compromise but I hope a really bright one





And for any questions you might have just ask - BTW - regarding cheap & functional housings for MR16s fit to MTBs I can give you some URLs - seems the latest trend in germany is to use those caps used to be placed on the rounded knobs of trailer couplings for it - the MR16s fit nicely.

@pwell - glad you made it there safe - you´re OK ? 50 bucks for a 2D is even more than in germany - and I thought they rip us off here - but if you talk australian dollars its still expensive but quite the same here - and then those US guys with the 20 buck pricing and still looking for the 10 buck bargains on those mags



(just bought a nice golden Mag 2C for my wife at 12 bucks on sale recently)

@Jahn - mine dried out - but I remember it wasn´t cheap - but 17 pounds - first class RIP OFF - let me check with an UK friend for you. And I know you love that 3D - but with 16 AA its no go IMO - do the math - 3 x D = 18cm / 4 x AA = 20 cm - it will be flush with the tail-cap and you can´t close it anymore IMO - see the old thread where I did some calculation on how much AA in which mag.

@William - you remember me I wanted to work on that diagramm for the spacing/wiring for the cells - totally forgot





@phred - thanks for the helping hand - and Jonathan - the Philips are pretty much equivalent IMO - see the older thread where I explained the bulbs a bit (it was like 1000 lumens for 50 bucks or so) - the Philips are avaiable in even more wattages - AFAIK the 35Ws are the most efficient out of those already high-efficiency bulbs.

The ones we plan for use are OSRAM DECOSTAR IRC

20W 10° 48860SP
35W 10° 48865SP

The euqivalent from Philips with 8° beam

20W 8° 14578
35W 8° 14584

And regarding the over/under-clocking (so-to-say) of the bulbs on the WA site one can calculate the gains/losses doing so - nice - thanks to Ike poiting this out to me.

Klaus


----------



## pwell (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Well, I finally gave in and bought a new 2D Mag today for $50 (AUD50 = USD25). I would have wasted too much time thinking about it.  It is a very nice light but much larger than the surefires I'm used too. The spot shines further than an E2 but up close the E2 looks brighter. Anyway I have a few questions. A picture's worth a 1000 words so first up...





A front view of the switch assembly. Look at the internal retaining ring! Its expanded inside a groove and needs to be compressed to come out. But no tools to get in there! Any suggestions...?






This image shows that the switch mechanism seems to be held in place by something we can't see. I tried pushing it from the front but it wont budge!!






Here you can see the terminals of the nice new lamp assembly. Its a 50W 10 degree OSRAM Decostar! The bulb rattles only slightly. I think an o-ring will fix it.






This shows very approximately how far up the batteries come. So I can understand what Klaus is saying about the switch now. Is yours the same Klaus?

Any ideas on how to get out that internal circlip would be appreciated...

Regards
pwell


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## sunspot (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Pwell. I have seen on CPF a link that details how to remove the switch. Reading it made the procedure seem easy. I can't find it now. Maybe someone else can.


----------



## Klaus (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Sean,

use a small allen wrench ?? or whatever the name is and losen the screw INSIDE the switch - then you can easily get the switch assy out tail-end wise.

As phred posted this has been discussed a couple of times here and you can easily do a search on Mag & switch or something like that - or just go here






Take care with the sun down there

Klaus


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## Jonathan (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Quoting W McClendon 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> That size voltage regulator sounds good. The price is good too. Hmmm, maybe we need something like this. I guess we still would have to look at the trade off of the extra cells being added. 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The price is good because it is just a raw parts cost; I am trading my hobbyist knowledge of building regulators for other hobbyist knowledge of putting together flashlights. I cannot promise anything with the design finesse of an LVR, but I do have working code that provides basic function. (It turns the light on and off, dims the light up, regulates the voltage to the light.) 

The actual circuit is itself _very_ simple; you need a PIC, a voltage regulator to supply power to the PIC, a couple of capacitors on the power supply, a couple of resistors to measure the main battery voltage, a big transistor to control the power to the lamp with minimal losses, and a circuit board to hang it all on.

Looking through a Digikey catalog for the expensive parts:
The PIC (part #PIC12C672-04/P-ND)
$2.88 qty 1, $1.77 qty 25, but if you need to be able to reprogram, $8.63 qty 1, no bulk discount
the transistor (part #IRL1004-ND)
$3.65 qty 1, $2.92 qty 10
the voltage regulator (part ZR78L05C-ND)
$1.08 qty 1, $.81 qty 10
resistors, capacitors add another $1

circuit board:
I've gotten the design down to 14mm x 32mm, but it is thick, at least 10mm, probably 15mm, since I stack the transistor _under_ the board. The transistor could stick out at 90 degrees from the board (say to heat sink it against the shell) or could lay flat. It could be lots smaller with surface mount components, but the goal is something that we can build; otherwise we are better off buying the LVR.
Gosh, this is hard to price, since one has to pay setup and tooling costs, but then the cost per board is pretty darn cheap. The best deal that I've seen anywhere is at Olimex PCB fabrication ...with their cutting services one can get 35 boards on a single 'PCB Proto Panel DSS' for $26. Parting a board out is more of an issue; if I do this for myself, I will likely panelize several different personal projects.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Can you use these regulators as switches? dimmers? that slow start thing you spoke of? 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The regulator fully controls the power to the lamp, so it can turn the lamp off as well as regulating the power to the lamp. For my bike headlight I use a momentary pushbutton switch to provide a logic level signal to the PIC. If the lamp is off and I hold the switch for 1/2 second, it turns on. Hold for 1/2 second while on, and it turns off. One problem with this approach is that the PIC is _always_ on, drawing a couple of mA and slowly draining the batteries. Not much more than ordinary self discharge, but a serious issue for a system that sits for a long between charges.

The present incarnation of my code also provides the slow start to protect the filament. There is no reason that the regulator could not function as a dimmer; one would need to figure out a good 'user interface' and program it. There are a number of programmed features to consider, and either use as a good idea, or eliminate as extra baggage.

Feature: Dimmer. One trick is 'if lamp is on, a _quick_ press of the button changes level, a _long_ press of the button turns off'. Another approach is 'if lamp is off, turn on to 'dim' mode, then get brighter if the button is still held down'. Yet another 'have a little potentiometer, and use it to adjust the brightness of the lamp'. I am sure that there are other approaches.

Feature: Low battery warning. Detect when the battery is nearly exhausted, and somehow signal this, either by a separate indicator light, or by flickering or dimming the main light.

Feature: Low battery cutoff. Detect when the battery pack is too discharged, and turn off the light if it gets to low, protecting the battery pack from cell reversal. I could see that some users would want the light to keep running if there is _any_ juice in the batteries, but others would want to protect their batteries and switch to a backup.

Feature: Warning flash. Seems silly to me, but I saw this as a suggestion. Once you have the PIC in there, you can make the lamp flash.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> As for the charging of the cells in the sealed container...I've got mixed thoughts there. The prototypes will have a romoveable end cap. You'll have to take this cap off to charge (charge port under the cap). This will un-seal the container. The container will be sealed during dis-charge though, but hopefully this won't matter. Does anyone know what the Mag Charger does about this? I just looked at one last night to see how they charged it. I can't believe they use the 2 metal strips on the outside, but its kind of neat. The Mag is pretty sealed, right? 
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sealing during discharge is not a problem, unless one of the cells was wired in reverse



Sealing during charging _shouldn't_ be a problem, because this means that you are overcharging the cells, electrolyzing the water in the electrolyte, breaking the seals, and causing the electrolyte to leak out. But since overcharge is a possibility, you have to plan for it lest you turn your flashlight into a pipe bomb. The Mag is very sealed; I just looked at my sister's one. I think they just trickle charge the batteries, which makes catastrophic overcharge unlikely. I like the idea of charging by removing an end cap. Simple and avoids the problem of the sealed container, and also avoids having to have outside proof charging contacts.

-Jon


----------



## Klaus (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Jonathan,

you might check out BIKE LIGHT CONTROLLER which does supply some freeware sourcecode to built in variable power levels (aka Dimmer) which might be a nice addition. Also they seem to have some clever settings for the switch you might look into. 

On the current project - what would be the minimum number of cells for an LVR to make sense ? Wouldn´t 12 be good enough ? We are at 24 (2x12) right now and I´m not shure if William could fit 28 without major hassle. Using the 24 pcs straight seriel also doesn´t make sense reading through your posts. I think 14V anyway would be fine - giving us 1500 lumens for around 950 hours - actually with a life-span of 1000 charges which we might get with the used smart chargers this could mean the bulb and cells would have around the same life span - I posted some data on the overdriving calculation earlier in this thread. Going to 15V might be overkill at least for what we are planning on - maybe for your MTB needs more lumens might be even better (15V would be 2000 lu instead of 1500 at 14V) but definetely some control circuit would be needed then for the bulbs life as you mentioned. I think it would be easier if we could fit an LVR into the existing mechanical and electrical design instead of needing more cells and redoing all the mechanical and electrical parts we worked on until here - this IMO would make more sense for a possible next version if it would be doable inside the existing design for now and results show more cells would be better.

Could you give us an estimate on how many cells would/could be needed for this 14V output - or asked the other way round - do you see any chance in adding the LVR into the existing 12 (2x12) design ?

Oh - and BTW - also Willie Hunt does supply some great input at 
Willie Hunt LVR

Klaus


----------



## Jonathan (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Could you give us an estimate on how many cells would/could be needed for this 14V output - or asked the other way round - do you see any chance in adding the LVR into the existing 12 (2x12) design ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I looked at some datasheets for AA NiMH cells, and it looks like with a 1500 mA load, they drop to between 1.1 and 1.2 VPC for most of the discharge. 12x1.1VPC gives 13.2 volts, so I don't think that you would reliably get 14 volts with only 12 cells. I think that 13 cells would be the bare minimum, 14 cells would be ideal, and Willie Hunt recommends 16 cells for 12V lamps.




However this does not mean that you could not use a PWM voltage regulator, just that you won't get all of the benefits.





Your current plans use 12 cells, unregulated. At the beginning of the discharge, the voltage is too high, at the end of discharge the voltage is lower than ideal, but still acceptable. 

If you put a PWM voltage regulator into a system, and the battery voltage is lower than your desired output voltage, then the device stops _regulating_, the transistor goes full on, and the lamp simply sees the battery voltage (less a bit of drop through the transistor). The losses of these sort of regulators is so low that you might consider using them just to provide the switch function.

So you could stick with 12 cells, add a PWM regulator, and it will still provide the dimup feature, provide voltage limiting whenever the battery voltage is higher than desired, provide for dimming or low battery voltage warning, and replace the high current mechanical switch. When the battery voltage falls too low, then the light output will start falling off because the lamp voltage will start falling, and the operation of the unit will look just like the unregulated 12 cell system.

The transistor that I am proposing has an 'on' resistance of 0.007 Ohm, about as good as you would get from a mechanical switch.

-Jon

P.S. I like to use the generic term PWM regulator, rather then LVR, out of respect for Willie's good work in providing substantial information to the community; the LVR is a PWM regulator built by Willie. I want to build something that incorporates features of the LVR, but which is customized for our application, and which is not mass produced. If I wanted a finished LVR, I'd buy it from Willie.


----------



## Klaus (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Jon,

thx for the input - some comments

- WH recommending 16 cells for 12V lamps - don´t want to start a dispute here but this is a simplified short version on the issue IMO - 

QUOTE Willie Hunt: So how should I run my "12" volt bulb?

I recommend a 12 cell NiCad pack if the bulb is really 12.0 volts and a 16 cell NiCad pack if the bulb is 14.0 with a LVR3E custom adjusted to your battery voltage for warning flashing and cutoff. Alternatively, a 24 volt SLA (two 12 volt SLA in series) can be use with a LVR3 model 24V12. ENDQUOTE

Oh and yes - I never intended to wrongly use the term LVR in any way harming WH and I agree that PWM would be more appropiate - I used the "Linear Voltage Regulator" term as I thought its describing things and I also agree that Willie Hunt did a great job in bringing this things up and I hope his work at and for SF will result in even better products for SF and more recognition for him which he IMO well deserves.

As per your explanation the PWM won´t hurt (much) when voltage drops - We might need William to give his two cents on the packaging - I think I can modify the chargers to handle 13 or 14 (26/28) cells as well but we might need to use higher voltage power supplies then too - 13 (26) should still work on what we have on order though - 14 would be the maximum but I would need to try - for the other parts I think no change at all would be necessary.

William - any idea on the packaging aspects without possibly adding any additional lenght ? We would also need to use another switch then I think - something like a tiny pushbutton style thing I guess - possibly muvh easier to implement though.

More later

Klaus


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Packaging...the size (14mm x 32 mm x 10 mm) should actually fit up around the bulb area. 

The only packaging problem would be if we have to go to the extra cells. That would give us the 4 stacks of 7 and totally fill up the body. We'd have to re-package the charging plug, the switch (maybe), and move the bulb out (thus move the head up more). I think it would add about 2" to the length (maybe less). 

If we could use a real small momentary switch (like a tac switch), we might be able to put that anywhere (because it shouldn't take up anyroom on the inside of the body). 

The PWM would have to go in the tail end then and we'd probably be able to offset the charger plug to fit them in the same space (so to speak).

We're still only talking about a 12" body though. It might do us good to move the bulb out some anyway. 

I really like the idea of being able to over-power the bulb and get more light out of this thing. All the other features sound cool as well. I think it would make this a real professional light.

William


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## Klaus (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

William,

just sent you separate email - have to run now

I also wrote about packaging

Overdriving - we are overdriving by >16% average already with 12 cells unregulated - with the PWM and 15V it would be 25% straight. pros and cons on that - see my email

Switch wise you are right

And regarding more light - 2000 lumen vs 1500 (or better 2000 on start - 1500 for most of the time - 1000 towards the end) - agree - what were the words: You can never have too much light ?





More later

Klaus


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## Jonathan (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Regarding 12 cells in series versus 14, I see a very strong argument in favor of 12: You could bypass the regulator and still have a functional flashlight should the regulator ever fail to work. Sticking with 12 cell removes a potential sticking point to a finished product. 

Regarding fitting the PWM in the tail section near the charging plugs: What about putting the PWM and the charging plugs on a single pcb at the tail end of the housing? What were you planning on using for charger plugs?

About finding the Decostar lamps in the US: I've not found a US supplier, but I traded e-mail with Eric at Nightlightning; he has the 20W Osram Decostar IRC lamps, and the 35 and 45W Philips Masterline IRC lamps, prices as listed on his web page. Shipping for 5 lamps to the US would be about $6.50US, lamps are as listed on the web page, so the Philips lights work out to $11.20US. So far this seems to be the best price to the US, although mail order from Germany might be better. Klaus, any sources?

Regarding 14 or 16 cells: Willie Hunt recommends 16 cells to operate a lamp at 14V. I believe that this is based upon wanting to discharge the battery to less than 1 volt per cell, and having sufficient voltage available after the battery voltage drops because of the load. The more cells you have, the more 'headroom' you have for voltage drop under load and voltage drop due to discharge, the cost being the efficiency hit which I described earlier. If you want to run the lamp at 14 volts, and you only have 14 cells, then you are limited to 1 volt per cell, which is pretty tight, but IMHO you will be able to mostly discharge the battery. 

Picking a datasheet for some Panasonic 1500 mAh AA NiMH cells, at a 1.5A discharge, you are better than 90% discharged when you hit 1.1VPC, which means that with 14 cells you can run 15V, at least with warm batteries. I don't see 16 cells as really necessary to run a lamp at 14V, but you might not reach the full 14V when the battery pack is cold and partially discharged. 

Regarding the rerating formula on the Welch Allyn website. I've not used their calculator, but I do you these sort of equations. It is very important to remember that they are only approximations, and get less accurate the further from nominal operating voltage you go. I would be very surprised if the 35 watt Decostar IRC lamp operated at 15V would really put out 2000 lumen, though I have no doubt that it would be damn bright and a very fine light.

Regarding




Jon


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

So 16 cells would be the best thing, right? I think we should just plan on that. No sense in cutting something short.

I believe Klaus and I have decided to continue on with the original design using the 2x12 cell configuration and no regulator. We need to go ahead and try some of this stuff out.
However...I think a light along the same lines with the 2x16 cells should be going on at the same time. Most of the design won't change. We'll just have to incorporate a different switch, a longer body, and some more room for the equipment.
What do you think?

As for putting the charging port on the PMW board...that would be perfect. As long as everything will fit into a 1.75" dia. it should work perfectly.

The Decostar lamps from Germany sound pricey! Hopefully my local shop can get them in. If so, I can arrange to get more and send you a few if you like. 

William


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## Jonathan (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Quoting W McClendon posted 01-18-2002 07:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>So 16 cells would be the best thing, right? I think we should just plan on that. No sense in cutting something short. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My opinion is that 14 cells would be better than 16 cells for running the lamp at 14 volts. 16 cells would provide a bit more flexibility

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I believe Klaus and I have decided to continue on with the original design using the 2x12 cell configuration and no regulator. We need to go ahead and try some of this stuff out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that this is a very good approach. Any details yet on the lamp mounting head?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
However...I think a light along the same lines with the 2x16 cells should be going on at the same time. Most of the
design won't change. We'll just have to incorporate a different switch, a longer body, and some more room for the
equipment.
What do you think?

As for putting the charging port on the PMW board...that would be perfect. As long as everything will fit into a 1.75"
dia. it should work perfectly.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sounds good to me. Can you point me to a part number for the charger plug? That way I can see how it will fit on a board.

-Jon


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

I think I've been thinking wrong here...DOH! Too many numers. We can actually package the 2x14 cells, not the 2x16. Sorry! We can do 4 stacks of 7 cells. Nevermind the 16 cell idea. 

Right now the lamp mounting head is up in the air. I've been machining on a Brinkman head off of a Legend D-cell light. It fits the bulb real well. It might be the choice. I've also got one drawn up of my own design, but the machining on the head is pretty complicated.

I haven't really picked out the charging plug yet. It will probably be just a regular DC power receptacle (like on a walkman or something). Maybe you can find one that will work best for the board. Let me know if you do.

william


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## sunspot (Jan 21, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Sylvania bulbs. 37/mr16/1rns/10. I belive this is the same as the EU Osram Decostar except it's 37W. 15+ is $9.90USD each. For a real chest clutch, it's $22.63 for one......GASP.


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## Klaus (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Yuk - the bulbs sound pricy - the OSRAM IRC ones (the efficient ones) are around 6-8 bucks here - befor hell breaks lose I can sent some to US - but so far it seems William managed to locate them - don´t know the price though.

Dana - do you have candela ratings for those ? The 35W Osram is 12500 cd for 10° beam and the Philips I think is 14000 for 8°.

I choose those for their efficiency as every electron counts so to say



but thanks for checking those out for us.

Klaus


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## **DONOTDELETE** (Jan 22, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

phred, 
Where did you get those prices from? I sure hope mine don't come out being that much.

I've found someone local (Atlanta) to order the OSRAM IRC ones, but they still haven't gotten them in yet (its been 3 weeks). I'll let everyone know if I get them and how much they'll be.

I'm also going to try to contact the local Sylvania distribution place and see if I can get them there.

William


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## sunspot (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

William. I called a local wholesale bulb dist in Birmingham, AL. He made calls for best price and called me back. Nobody around here listed the Decostar in their books at all. Even by the OSRAM part number. BTW, I did find that 37w bulb on the Sylvania USA web site. It is an IRC but no preceived output wattage was given.
Atlanta, being a major hub city, has a better chance to have hard to locate products.
Want some cast iron ductile pipe? Birmingham, AL produces 25% of the worlds supply.


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## Jonathan (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

A lamp housing update:

The following was posted to a bicycle lighting discussion group called 'bikecurrent', currently hosted at topica.com:

bikecurrent post about MR-16 housings

Basically what is described is using rubber fittings which are sold at home centers for drain piping. The standard fitting consists of a rubber sleeve wrapped with a metal strip and a couple of hose clamps. I went out and bought a couple of sizes of these fittings, and tried them out with a standard (cheap and locally available) 50W MR-16 lamp. What I found was that the rubber housing seems to work pretty well, although sitting on a bench with no cooling, and running the lamp at 13V (and thus more than 50W), the rubber did start to smoke a bit. Running at an estimated 37 watts (with a reflector described below) was no problem.

The size suggested above is actually made for '1-1/4 inch' pipe. Pipe sizes are nominal, and the inner diameter of the sleeve is about 1-5/8 inch (42mm). It is pretty easy to stretch the rubber to fit around an MR-16 lamp, the trick is to roll the sleeve back onto itself, squeeze the lamp into place, and then unroll the rubber. Using this size of sleeve, the lamp is firmly held be the stretched rubber.

A slightly larger size is available, made for '1-1/2 inch' pipe. An MR-16 lamp easily goes into these sleeves, but the outer clamping mechanism is needed to firmly hold the lamp in place.

I am considering making a nicer clamping sleeve out of aluminium, and using the larger rubber sleeve as my MR-16 housing. This would clamp right on to the end of a 2" OD tube, however I'm planning on using a cap to cover the back hole, and use a skinny pipe to connect the lamp holder to the battery holder. My reasoning is that the lamp housing was getting _very_ hot, and that this heat would damage the batteries, or make the battery holder uncomfortable to hold.

I decided that sitting a dichroic reflector inside of a black rubber tube wasn't the best approach to lighting, so I tried wrapping some aluminium foil around the back of the reflector prior to placing a lamp into the sleeve. This seemed to do a good job of cooling the back of the lamp, and possibly making it a touch brighter. It was certainly _warmer_ in front of the lamp.

-Jon


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Feb 4, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Well, I've been doing some thermal studying of these MR16 bulbs. Actually, I just checked this cheap 20W garden lamp I have. I still haven't received my OSRAM bulbs



!

So, running the 20W lamp for 15 minutes at 14.4V in a Brinkmann head (only)...This thing is cooking, literally. You could bake bread with this thing.

The numbers: The lens of the bulb got up to 180 degrees F. The back of the bulb got up to 250 degrees F. The base of the bulb where the square plug meets the rounded reflector got up to 300 degrees F. Finally, the plug area of the bulb got up to 275 degrees F.

The head didn't do as bad, but still way too hot. It basically got up to 175 degrees F.

This was a non-sealed test with just the bulb in the head and in free air. I used a Fluke thermocouple for the readings and a 14.4V battery pack from a cordless drill to light this oven.

Now, I'm off to find some heat absorbing material



.

William
I'm not worried about the heat of the discharging cells as much anymore


----------



## Graham (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

This topic has been quiet for a few weeks..

Jonathan suggested I move my discussion of the light I'm working on here, since it seems close to what you guys are working on.

So far, I have 2x7.2v 2400mAh battery packs connected in series, directly (over)driving a 35w 10degree 12v MR11 lamp..

Interesting thing is that the battery packs actually give an open circuit voltage of 15.8v. Even under load, voltage for the first 5 or so minutes is still over 15v. So some sort of regulator is definitely needed..

Graham


----------



## Klaus (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Graham,
give me a bit to go through your latest posts

Reason for the sleeping thread had been that William is reviewing the options to heat-shield the cells/body from the heat of the MR16 which is quite high - the solution like in my first design with neopren cover isn´t as good as the body is 2" already and we don´t want to make it much bigger. I had been busy with slaughtering ICs in my trial to bring the smart charger for the design to 3 amps - have it back in working condition as I type but still at 1A.

Later

Klaus

And don´t worry for that voltage behaviour - its quite perfect - 15V for a couple of minutes won´t do much harm - it will drop to 14V real soon - at 13-14V we are in the perfect range for very good efficiency.


----------



## Graham (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

I guess I thought that the voltage would drop fairly quickly to 14v or so under load, but it didn't, for about 5 minutes or so. I haven't done a longer test though. 

This weekend I may do a full run time test and run the batteries down as far as they will go. I just need to find a way to mount the lamp so it doesn't melt anything...right now the lamp/switch/batteries are just connected by the wiring with no case or solid frame..

One other annoyance is that the 35w MR11 lamp I got doesn't give a very good spot - it is almost a rectangular shaped beam. I have two, and tried both, with the same result. Quite annoying since they are supposed to be 10degree lamps. My other 50w 12 degree lamp gives a much better beam, but it is a bi-pin mount. After trying, I much prefer the screw-in socket..

Graham


----------



## Tater Rocket (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Well my spotlight has officially turned into this project, though I may keep the spotlight project going too with the 50 watt lamp I am supposed to be getting soon. *Spies lantern battery style flashlight and wonders if he can stick 36 AA's in there for a 50 watt light* I used 12 FREE NiCD batts that I took from the recycling thing from radio shack. Voltage tested them and kept all the ones above 1 volt. I charged them a bit, then went downstairs and soldered them together. I mainly did that just to see if I COULD solder them together and make them fit in my light before I ordered 16 of the things on ebay (Nexcell 1600's for $1.40 each plus $5 shipping). As soon as I paypal the guy I'll be the proud owner of more NiMH's. 

Anyway, the thing worked, but I won't be able to use the NiCDs too much because I didn't fully charge all of them so after several minutes the lesser charged ones would start getting reverse charged probably. But, it DOES work, which was surprising. So now I am the proud owner of the ugliest homemade spotlight here. The lamp had household wiring soldered to it, and that is coming out of the switch hole. Then, there is duct tape around the switch hole and head holding the wire in place and keeping the head from turning. Then that wire sticks out another 3 inches. There is where my new slide switch is hot glued onto the body of the flashlight about 3 inches from the back. The back has no tail cap and you can see the batts. I have 2 wires soldered to the batts coming out of the end. One is soldered to the household wire, the other is soldered to the switch. I'll take it and a floppy to church and see if I can use my Youth Pastor's digital cam to take a picture or 5 of it. It really is ugly, but very functional. I'll compare (yeah, right,compare) it to my legend LX while there if I can. 

Spud


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## Tater Rocket (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Oh yes, regarding charging. I still have no way of charging. Will the following work? I have either two 9 volt wall plugs of different amp ratings (one like 300 and a 500). Can I wire those to give me the needed 18 volts? It SHOULD only pull 300 mA like that shouldn't it? I also have a 13 volt and a 5 volt (850 and 140 respectively). Will that give me 18 volts at 140 mA? I cannot find any 18 volt stuff, so what do you all suggest? The 18 volts using the 2 9's would be very nice because 300 mA would give me a charge time of around 6 hours which isn't too bad. Actually, I am not exactly sure where the other 9 is, but I do have the 13 and a 4.5 that is rated at 300, so it too would give me 18 at 300 (I hope, what do you all think?). 

Spud


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## Klaus (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Rocket,

firstly congrats on the Lightsaber ™ flashlight




and finding the trial NiCds. 

On the charging: 

Look at 35VA 24V wall plug - you can´t beat that 6 bucks. Others there too like a 24V DC 600ma for 4.5 bucks.

OK - using this piece you will just need an additional AC-DC converter chip at maybe 2 bucks or so and some resistor to drop a bit of voltage and limit the current - voila - you "dumb" charger is ready - you can still add some "smart" circuit later on.

And in theory it might even work to use your 2 9V units - you would need to set them up in a "bridge" setting I would suppose - which is more or less a seriel connection with one plus cable and one minus cable connected between the two wall plugs and the other two cables (one from each wall plus) going to the cells - measure it first and don´t say Klaus told me when you fry something - as you might have read I still carry that IC slaughterhouse champ nickname and don´t want to extend it to wall plugs



- and you will still need to use a resistor to limit your current - discharged NiCds will have a very low resistance and will take in so much current that you might fry your wall plugs when you don´t limit the current.

Formula goes something like: Take the 300ma as max current - voltage drop is lets say .2V - so try a 1 Ohm one - and use something like a 5 or 10W resistor type - you might need to play a bit with the values - it could also be a bit lower or higher ..... but 1 Ohm is a good start I think.

Good luck

Klaus


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## Tater Rocket (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Ac to DC converter chip, aka rectifier? I am less-than-knowledgeable in that sort of thing, though I'd be able to convince most kids my age otherwise. That all electronics site also had a 24 volt DC transformer for $4.50 http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=DCTX-246&ty pe=store 
I'd prefer that one I think, then I could simply add a resistor....that much I can do... I think



Shipping is only $6 for me, so that will save some money compared to going to Rat Shack. I am sure I can find something else to go along with that transformer if I cannot find one locally for cheap to help defray that shipping cost (though it is fairly reasonable too). 

Spud


Edit: Real quickly before I leave, I thought I'd go ahead and ask. If a switch is rated at 3 amps 125 volts AC, is it safe to use at 3 amps 12-14 volts DC? It is actually rated at 6 amps, and I'd use it at less than 2 most likely, but I'd like to know if with switches if you can simply say 125V.A.C=12VDC?


----------



## Klaus (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Spud,

the 24V DC is only 600ma as I mentioned - the AC is more than double the current - means it will load your set in /2 the time.

And yes - AC-DC conversion is done by an rectifier - couldn´t find the word.

And your switch should work perfectly fine - even when 125V AC isn´t exactly 12V DC





Klaus


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## Tater Rocket (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

600 mA is plenty I think, I only need to charge to 1800 (using 1600 cells), so 3 hours is more than fast enough. I know this is REAL obvious, but I don't have my reference book handy. voltage (drop?)=current X resistance correct? Oh I give up, I cannot remember how to do ohms stuff. I used to be able to figure out fine what size resistor to use and such, but can't any more. Oh well, it is time to leave, maybe it will come to me (or you can point me to an electronics site if you have one bookmarked). Thanks, but I may go with that 600 mA one

Oh, and that lantern battery style thing... well you could fit 50 AA's in there EASILY. That means you could run 4 parallel sets of 12, using 1600 mA's would give you 6.2 aH, which means you could run the 75 watt lamp..... hehe, too bad you can't easily find a NARROW beam 75 watt lamp. Anyway, enough dreaming, time to go for a bit.

Spud


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## Klaus (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Spud,

if 600ma is fine for you I don´t worry

On the resistor thinggies (from Quickbeams site)

Ohm's law is stated as follows:

(Vs-Vr) / I = R

Where:

Vs = Voltage supplied
Vr = Voltage required
I = Current draw of component in Amps
R = Resistance needed

So as we don´t want to drop too much voltage I just used .2 (or .01 or whatver) - .2 / .3 is 0.66Ohm - using the 600ma part and 0.1 drop it would go like .1 / .6 = .16Ohm - I would start with 1 Ohm or lower - the voltage drop is a guessing as it will depend on the wall plug used and how stable it can keep the voltage under load - you will need to play around a bit - maybe use a dialable resistor to tune it to the curent you want and then swap against a fixed one. You need to calculate the wattage of the resistor with V X A = W - so if you have 18V and 600ma current you´ll need a 10W type - or was it just the voltage drop - so only maybe 1V x 600ma = 1W is enough - too late now - need to go to bed. Keep in mind that if the resistor starts smoking it was too small (not the Ohm value but the Watt value)





Off and out

Klaus


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## Tater Rocket (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Thanks muchly. So I need a voltage drop of 6, divided by a .6 amp current... how convenient, I already have some 5 or 10 watt 10 ohm resistors....yep, just checked, 10 watt 10 ohms, though at that website they weren't expensive anyway. Thanks again, and I'll likely be ordering that plug fairly soon (though I won't need it until AFTER I use my project light for a while since I can always charge the batts individually the first time).

Spud


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## Klaus (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Spud,

10Ohm 10W is perfect when you want to use the 24V 600ma part.

CU

Klaus


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## Silviron (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Just go here:
http://www.hosfelt.com/Adapter%20Folder/Adapter%205.htm


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## Graham (Mar 14, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Found a fairly interesting lamp the other day. Can't remember the brand, but it is a 12v 50w 17degree MR16. What caught my eye was the colour - it said 4700K, daylight level.
So I bought one to try out, and sure enough, it gives a very nice white, daylight type of light - much whiter than the other halogen lamps I've tried.
However, I noticed when I turned it on, that the reflector is partly translucent, and quite a lot of light(yellow!) escapes to the side. It appears that the halogen bulb is a fairly standard one, and it works by using a reflector which appears to only reflect the wavelengths of light which give a whiter output.
Meaning that the real forward output of the lamp is lower..

It does give a nice clear spot, but is not as intense as the other 50w lamps I have.

I comapared it to my M4 with MN61 lamp, and the M4 hot spot was noticably brighter, meaning the output is probably less than 300lumens.. a shame, because the light colour was very nice..

Graham


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## Silviron (Mar 14, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*Found a fairly interesting lamp the other day. Can't remember the brand, but it is a 12v 50w 17degree MR16. What caught my eye was the colour - it said 4700K, daylight level.....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most likely it is a SOLUX bulb you got. They are also great for indoor photography setups for small items and macro work.

You can get 10, 17, 24 & 36 degree spreads in 35 & 50 watt bulbs.

I bought mine HERE: https://www.nleintern et.net/solux/cgi-bin/tlistore/index.html

$9.90 each


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## Graham (Mar 14, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silviron:
*Most likely it ia a SOLUX bulb you got. *<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was it! I wish they had the 10 degree one here. These lamps seem very well designed - the spot on mine was very clear and well defined, unlike some of the other halogen lamps I've tried. It gets VERY hot though..

Graham


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## Silviron (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:
*That was it! ...(snip)... It gets VERY hot though.....*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They do get hot all right- I scorched my fabric lighting "tent" for photography when I left one on too long with the light only a couple of inches away.

I just ran across some pretty extensive technical stuff on the SoLux bulbs HERE


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## Klaus (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Update

This project is humming along in "stealth" mode so-to-say ....

The smart charger is working fine at 3.4A

William got the bulbs and sorted out the switch issue

We are now working on some good heat insulation to protect the cells as well as our hands from the heat generated by the 35W bulbs and as time permits will finish the two prototype units.

As I posted in the older thread this thing will be a bright puppy and at 1 hour runtime / 1 hour charge time and output starting from a calculated 2000 lumens on freshly charged cells down to 1500 lumens for most of the runtime and still 1000 lumens towards the end of the capacity my nickname of Lightsaber &#153 isn´t just hype





Klaus


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## K-T (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

That's good to hear something from you guys. I was a little bit worried...but I guess there is no reason for worries





The other Klaus.


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## Klaus (Apr 17, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Don´t worry be happy





Grüsse nach ??

Au jetzt klickts - wir hatten doch schon geemailt - klappt alles ?

Gruss

Klaus


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## K-T (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

everything is just fine.





I sent you an email.

Klaus.


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## lemlux (Apr 26, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Here's my variant of Graham's project described a few posts ago -- a 6 " long rechargeable flashlight generating > 550 lumens for > 2 hours on one charge with a rounded edge handle that is 2" by 1 1/3 "

In recent days I posted that I picked up 6 @ 6* 2450 mAh Sanyo Laptop batteries for $5 @ that I've dissassembled. I also bought 9 @ 2100 mAh "Japanese no-name" packs for $2 @ because they were so cheap.

I know it would be easy to recharge the 2100 mAh 7.2 V packs if I gang the packs in parallel. Accordingly, I've decided to make a 7.2 V flashlight rather than going to 14.4 V to drive a 12 V or 13V lamp.

I will use:
1.) the 1 3/8" $4.81 cylindrical Carley set screw Reflector for T-2 1/2 bulbs
2.)the $1.00 Carley T-2 1/2 sleeve adapter into which I will pot 
3.) a $7.50 W/A 01274 Bulb rated at 7.2 V 2.77 A 19.94 W 553 L 40 hr. and 27.7 L / W.

I have found that the most comfortable multiple 6AA battery pack arrangement for me is three of them stacked on top of each other. The dimension, excluding rounded edges is slightly more than 51 m tall by 34 mm wide by 150 mm long (2" by 1 1/3" by 6"). This pack will be a 6.3 Ah 18 cell pack that draws 0.91 A per cell. It should deliver the full 7.2 V and run the bulb for > 2 hours.

You may have noticed that the 1 1/3" width of the triple battery pack is almost exactly the diameter of the Carley cylindrical reflector. I will bind the back of the battery pack together with a hose clamp. I will bind the front of the pack with the open air-cooled cylindrical aluminum reflector on top with another hose clamp, and will place a heat insulating pad between the reflector and the battery pack.

I will wire up an on-off switch and a quick disconnect plug so I can hook up to my MAHA charger.

I will make two of these "Little Beasties" (copyright infringement intended) from 6 of the battery packs. (Klaus has requested and been allocated the remaining three packs.)

Other than being non-weather proofed and having exposed wiring, I like this approach. It is the only way to have a compact yet firmly mounted lamp assembly that occurs to me. 

I've not proceeded in this direction before because I couldn't figure out how to mount a lamp assembly securely, compactly, and safely. The idea popped into my head a week after I became aware of the Carley reflector.

Edit: It just occurred to me that it might be worth while to mount the head, switch assembly, and bulb socket from a DB 4AAA to the Carley lamp assembly. The diameter of the DB 4AAA head appears to be slightly larger than that of the Carley reflector, but that can be offset by the heat insulation between the reflector and the uppermost battery pack. I would cut off the roughly 9/16" of the head that extends forward beyond the switch assembly.

The remaining 1 1/4" of DB 4AA body that would extend behind the 1" reflector would combine to cover only slightly more than 1/3 of the top of the 6" length of the battery pack. It would cover less of the battery pack if I decided to cantilever the reflector slightly.

Alternatively, I could use an entire enclosed DB 4AA head and Bezel (with or without lens) to cover the reflector. I could also bolt the flat part of the DB 4AA (and maybe a spacer cradle)to a flat steel spine on the top of the battery pack that is sandwiched between the hose clamp and the top battery. This would leave only 7/8" of the DB 4AA head on top of the battery pack and would extend and extend the remaining 2 3/8" out in front of the battery pack.

I'll have to think about whether these aesthetics more than offset adding 35% more length to the overall package. My 6"+ Little Beastie would grow to 8 1/4"+

Clark


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## lemlux (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Design Update:

I've decided that three battery packs aren't sufficiently comfortable. I will use only to 2 battery packs totalling 12 A NiMh 2100 mAh cells running serial / parallel at 7.2 V and 4200 mAh. At 7.9 oz @, the exta weight is also cumbersome. It's possible that raising the per cell amperage from 0.93 to 1.39 may drop voltage from 7.2 V to 6.9 V or 7.0. A drop to 6.9 V would cost 84 Lumens, but a drop to 7.0 would only cost about 40 lumens. 

I've figured out how to avoid hose clamps and to provide a metal superstructure for mounting the Carley reflector. I went to Home Depot and bought several Simpson Strong Ties # I STA9 NER-443 in the hardware department. These are 1.7 oz galvanized rectangular strips that are 3/64" thick by 1 1/4" wide by 9" long with beveled corners. 

I will sandwich (a)the two batteries in the rear 6" of the Strong Ties, (b)the 1 3/8" circumference 1" long Carley reflector at the front 1 1/4" of the strong tie, and (c)the bulb overhang, on-off switch, battery charging quick disconnect and other wiring in the 1 3/4" between the batteries and the reflector.

The Strong Tie has a centered 1/2" hole that is 2 1/4" to 2 3/4" back from the reflector end of the strip. This hole perfectly mounts a 0.8 oz Gardner Bender chrome plated toggle switch # GSW-125 and wire assembly that looks like a ball short-throw gear shift. The switch stands out 7/16" from the Strong Tie and has a nice positive feel to it. 

These Strong Ties have five staggered holes in the rear 6" that I will use to lace the sandwiched battery packs firmly in place with parachute cord.

There are another two staggered holes in the front 1 3/16 " that I will use to wire wrap the reflector in place. The wire will also provide more opportunity to solder the wire / Strong Tie / Reflector surfaces together in a few places. The reflector will be recessed 1/4" from the front of the Strong Tie (d) to protect it and (e) to allow the reflector to be under both holes in the fron of the Strong Tie.

After all is together, I'll wrap the rear 6" handle portion. I'll use electrical tape first and enquire about wrapping a second layer with golf club grip tape.

When completed, these 550 L lights will be 9" long and weigh 18 oz plus the weight of reflector, tape, cord, bulb, and a little wire. I'm guessing 21 oz. The 7.2 V 4.2 Ah battery pack should run the 2.77 A bulb for an hour and a half.

For the time being, I expect to leave the front 3" of the light exposed and air cooled. It won't fit into 2" copper pipe, but I might someday try to find 2 1/4" or 2 1/2" copper pipe to enclose the front and provide a Pyrex lens.


Material costs are modest:

Surplus battery packs: $ 2.00 * 2 
7.2 W 2.77 A 553 L W/A bulb: $ 7.50
Carley Set Screw Reflector $ 4.81
Carley bulb sleeve $ 1.00
Strong Ties ([email protected]) $ 0.37 * 2
Gardner Bender Toggle $ 2.95
Tape, Wire, Quick Disconnect $ 2.00

Total Materials $23.00

So it should cost $23 plus tax and some shipping for the materials for the first three I build. (I've bid $25 on a lot of 10 more battery packs, so the next five lights would cost at $1.00 more.)


----------



## brightnorm (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

lemlux, Klaus et al:

Do you anticipate selling these and other high lumen originals to Flashaholics and others?

If you work up to "consumer's models" I would be very interested in buying one/some.

Brightnorm


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## bwcaw (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

I am sure that many cpf'ers would gladly
hand over their hard earned cash for one of those lights. I know i would rather pay $75++
for one that is already assembled than make
my own. I hope you do sell these lights!


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## lemlux (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

BigWuss and BrightNorm:

Aragorn tells me that nobody will want to buy an ugly light that isn't fully enclosed, doesn't have a lens, and isn't even slightly water resistant. I figure that something with (1) the 500 L power of an M6 that (2) will run for 1 1/2 hours, (3) which will structurally hold together if you keep it out of the rain (4) that weighs "only" 21 oz., (5) is a relatively small 9' long by an almost square 1 1/2" width and height has more than trivial useability.


I'm impressed by the elegant work of Messrs. Ramsey, Lambda and others who fit something technically advanced into an OEM light. I hope to approach temperature-safe 300 L from above and below 300 L in Energizer Double Barrels with Carley aluminum reflectors. I hope that the DB projects might wind up being considered as attractive and worthy of a beginning apprentice of CPF's stars. I am not technically advanced or particularly electrically savvy. I just salivate over playing around with available brute force components that can make an ergonomically pleasant flashlight -- It merely has to be easier to hold and use than a lantern (oh yeah -- and bright, too.).

What I don't know, is how many crazies besides me think it would be fun to play with a small 500 L light that looks like the semi-finished product of a rough carpenter. Did the two of you consider the exposed bulb and reflector? If so, how much does it bother you? (I could try to sell you by observing that the 12% light loss from a lexan lens is worth 60 lumens on this light.)

For no more than two of you who might want to build your own, there remain two unbid lots of 10 battery packs at an opening bid of $25.




http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=134902620 8&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1020104356&indexURL=0&rd=1 

I say "no more than two" because Adam S and I have each submitted $25 bids on the other two of four lots. The auction ends at 11:19 PDT tomorrow. If people outbid me I won't have any to sell. My two kids and I will each get one of the first three.


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## lemlux (Apr 29, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Auction update:

I was busy today and didn't see two bidders jump in the last 10 minutes to take 3 of the 6 battery pack lots of 10 packs. At least Adam S was able to get his battery.

Unless I find more packs, the three 500 L projects will stay in the family.


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## Graham (Apr 29, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Here's a quick update on my monstrosity..

So far, I have 2 x 7.2v 2.4ah RC packs, and have used the standard RC battery connectors to make a wiring system which allows me to unplug each pack so it can be recharged in a standard Tamiya smart charger (much cheaper and easier for me than designing/building my own..)
I have wired in an on-off-on rocker switch - one position will be for the main halogen lamp, the other position will be for the 2 LS emitters I will be adding.

The problem until now has been a case - I don't have any access to decent raw materials(and tools!) for making a custom metal case, so I've had to look for a cheap existing one which would fit the 2 RC packs. 
I ended up with a cheap $7 plastic lantern originally intended for use with those largish 6v lantern batteries. The 2 RC packs fit in nicely, with a little padding to stop movement. The large lantern-sized reflector bay is big enough to have the MR16 lamp on top with 2 LS emitters below.

At this point, I have removed the original switch and drilled out space for the rocker switch I am using, and have made an aluminium bracket to mount the MR16 socket in the correct position. I have had to drill holes in the case to mount it using bolts, but this was never intended to be waterproof or anything, so I'm not really worried.

Next I will be making a bracket to mount the LS emitters. For now, the LS units will be run using a basic voltage drop resistor, to run them from the 15v or so supplied by the battery packs. Given the amount of power the RC packs can supply, I'm not overly worried about efficiency for the LS units at this stage.

Next weekend it should be in a near-finished state, so I will post some pictures. It won't be pretty, but functional. My aim for this is a 'proof of concept'. Later when the opportunity presents itself I may make a better, custom case for it..

Graham


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## brightnorm (Apr 29, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*



> Originally posted by lemlux:
> *BigWuss and BrightNorm:
> 
> I am not technically advanced or particularly electrically savvy....
> ...


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## lemlux (Apr 29, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Graham:

Appreciate the update. How strong is the glass on the MR16 reflector? My local surplus shop has 20W and 45 or 50 Watt MR16's on sale for $2.00 @, but I have no feel how much punishment they'll take. (Klaus had to explain to me that the reflectors were glass, not some super plastic.) 

In my project, the reflector will be as significant structural member. I do look longingly at the compact MR16, however. I don't have a good idea how to mount it.

BrightNorm:

No false modesty in my comments. I can use algebra to figure out various volts * watts * amps relationships. I can look at Brocks's tables and read Klaus' comments and get a reasonable feel for interpolating what the voltage drop at various drain levels on various battery chemistries may look like. 

I can look at Welch Allyn's tables and understand that for each 10% a bulb is driven over or under from it's design voltage it will increase or decrease roughly 30% in output.

I can't design a circuit, but I'm increasingly able to appreciate what the circuits discussed by the cognescenti on this board are capable of performing.

I appreciate your comments and may, one day, come up with a weather resistant package. As I said before, I feel like a kindred spirit of all of us hermit crabs in search of a better shell to put cobbled goodies into.
I'm a scrounger who gets off on the "Eureka!" feeling of thinking "Say, I know what I might connect that to......"


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## Graham (Apr 29, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lemlux:
*Graham:

Appreciate the update. How strong is the glass on the MR16 reflector? My local surplus shop has 20W and 45 or 50 Watt MR16's on sale for $2.00 @, but I have no feel how much punishment they'll take. (Klaus had to explain to me that the reflectors were glass, not some super plastic.) 

In my project, the reflector will be as significant structural member. I do look longingly at the compact MR16, however. I don't have a good idea how to mount it.
*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure how strong it is, but I suspect it is designed more for heat resistance than impact resistance. Also, there is bound to be variation between manufacturers. In addition, I have seen some which have a slightly curved lens, although most are just flat. For my light, I will eventually have an additional lens covering the whole assembly because I am using an existing lantern case.
However, I think you can rely on the MR16 lens itself without too many problems..(but I wouldn't expect it to stand up to being thrown around or anything..)

Graham


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## snake (May 2, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Hello Lemlux,
during the labour day holiday, I try out the glass reflector. this is an Osram decorative bulb 12V 35W with glass reflector 10degree beam, 35mm diameter. M16 is 50mm right ? it could fit in the DB 4AA head just left a few turns aways from totally close. the problem is the glass reflector is not reflective as the DB reflector, even it is 12V 35W (I drive it with a transformer which used for a 12V 50W bulb) it is not bright as my 6V 10W bulb in the DB!! 

I think the reason is the glass refector is glass! it is too transparent, I can see the image of the bulb at the back of the reflector when the light is on.. so the side and the back of the bulb light up as well..

too bad.. if it works I just insert some insultate ring (used on some switch)on top the socket then finish my DB 4AA upgrade..
still looking for reflector..may be just buy a UK light cannon ..


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## lemlux (May 6, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Graham and Snake:

I just learned that MR16 stands for lamp assemblies with "Mirrored Reflectors" (MR) that have an OD of 16/8" or 2" or 50.8mm The other MR number designations all refer to the number of eighths of an inch of diameter.

Snake: I doubt you can close down on an 2" MR16 in the DB because the DB reflectors are are closer to 1 7/8" diameter.

I haven't bought any to play with. I'm waiting to find out (a) if W/A will sell bulbs with longer pins or (b) if Carley will be willing to remove about 3/16" of solid from the back of their 1 3/8" diameter 1" long reflector. The sample I got wasn't the set screw version, so I don't know whether the set screw will still work if 3/8" is removed.


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## snake (May 7, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Yes Lemlux,
MR16 did not fit in DB not just diameter as well MR16 is too tall, so I focus on MR11, it fit quite good. 

the good of MR is prefocused, the bad is most MR11 come with "transflective" reflector not aluminium reflector, lots of light come out at the rear.. I could only found "reflective" reflector with MR16..


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## fracman (May 14, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

I haven't followed this closely, but count me in.... if there is something to be counted in for!


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## lemlux (Jul 22, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

My Carley reflectors are on order, and I will make some 3 * 7.2 V battery pack flashlights as described above, but with 6.0 V 3.35 A bulbs overdriven to about 6.8 V and 600 Lumen. Also, Quikaluminum epoxy putty should simplify the task of stably bonding a round reflector to flat galvanized strips on the top and bottom.

I have just started on a super lantern that should be in the 1500 to 2000 lumen range. It is feasible because I still have lots of surplus 7.2 V battery packs that can be ganged into 14.4 V serial / parallel packs.

I now have many of the parts for what will be an expensive but exceptional hand held lantern. I today bought a PIAA 540 off road running light kit. Two lamp assemblies and wiring harness and switch. Lamp is the PIAA 55 W "Extreme" bulb that supposedly is equivalent to normal halogen 110W H3 bulbs. ( Note" I have PIAA 55 W H3 "Platinum" bulbs in the high beams of my car that are supposed to be equivalent to 85 W normal Halogen bulbs, and they are quite bright. In fact, they are bright enough and white enough to nicely complement my HID low beams.) 

The well heat-sunk 940 aluminum reflector steel housing lamp has a 15 degree circular "pencil beam" and is about 5 1/8" diameter and 2 1/2 " deep.

http://www.piaa.com/displayLamp.php3?inc=540.html 

I will run one of these with 8, 10, or 12 of my 7.2 V 2450 mAh A NiMH battery packs wired in serial / parallel 14.4V. That will give me either 9.6 Ah, 12.05 Ah, or 14.5 Ah for 14.4 V or double that for 7.2 V. At 4.58A drain, that should give run times of from 2 hours to 3 hours. Much of this run time should be over 13V and would be much brighter than using a 12V SLA battery. I have to make weight vs.. voltage drop and run time tradeoffs. I suspect most of the time of commercial H3 spotlights and small 2.5 to 4.0 Ah SLA batteries are run at < 12 V.

The 7.2 V packs packs weigh 8 oz each. I will wire a switch so I can toggle between 14.4 V and 7.2 V. At 7.2 V I can charge all the packs in parallel at 4.5 A with a charger jack.

After I receive my Carley reflector order, I will install a LOLA. I can overdrive a "little" 6.0 V 3.35 A W/A 01111 bulb at about 650 Lumen. My 650 Lumen LOLA would have 2.7 times the run time of the 540. The voltage toggle wiring will protect me from lighting either lamp at the wrong voltage.

I have a 7" tall by 5" wide by 3" long RS project box that will hold 12 @ 7.2 V battery packs before consideration for mounting hardware , wiring, & switches. I'll figure out where to mount an exosceletal backbone across the top to downward mount a 540 lamp and a substantial, comfortable lantern grip handle with at least a 5" grip.

I might eventually hang one or two 5W LS along with whatever current limiting circuitry CPF'ers subsequently develop onto this box to give me a dimmer secondary 120 Lumen, long life close-in area flood light LOLA for the 7.2 V circuit.

Total weight will be < 10 pounds.
Longest length will be about 6" (3" box + 2 1/2" lamp + 1/2" ventilation gap.
Longest depth will be about 9" (7" box depth plus 2" handle height)
widest width will be about 5 5/8" the widest point of the lamp.

The 2" wide 1.3" deep reflector LOLA can be mounted above the HOLA on or next to the handle.

Total out of pocket cost before the 5W LS is in the neighborhood of a Light Canon.


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## Klaus (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

LOL - it must be lemlux when a 5W LS is talked about as a LOLA





Klaus


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## lemlux (Jul 23, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Klaus:

Actually, I imagine the 5W LS as the secondary LOLA at 1/5 the brightness of the primary LOLA. The primary LOLA, in turn, should be 1/3 to 1/5 the brightness of the HOLA.

Some road debris broke one of the auxiliary PIAA running lights on my car. A single light costs about 60% of the cost of two lamps plus wiring harness and switch, so I justified 60% of the expenditure as car maintenance and 40% as flashaholism.


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## lemlux (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Rather than use up so many of my 2450 mAh 7.2V battery packs, I'm bidding on some 3000 mAh 7.2 V sub C packs. The 20A max drain design of these cells with average output of 1.15 V per cell makes me think that I can have a much lighter serial 2-pack for the 4.58 A drain of the PIAA 540 lamp. The main reason I planned to use 8 to 10 of the 2450 packs wasn't run time, but a desire to avoid excessive voltage drop at the 4.58 drain.

My immediate trade of [email protected] 2100 mAh 7.2 V A packs to Snakebite for 6 # 1800 mAh 6.0 V 4/5 A packs for use 10 cells to a DB8AA convinced me to go this way. I'll conserve my 2450 mAh packs for use doubled or tripled up in parallel on 6.0 V to 6.3 V project lights drawing 3.35 A or less.

Sub C NiMH's are specced to weigh between 55 and 62 grams each compared to A NiMHs that weigh 40 grams each. Thus, 2 @ Sub C packs will weigh only slightly more than 3 @ A packs. The two packs should be slightly more than 744 grams or 1.6 pounds and should run the PIAA 540 for just under 40 minutes.


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## Klaus (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

@lemlux,

here Sub-C Test and stuff you´ll find a sh*tload of info on variuos SUb-C cells, their voltage drop behaviour under load and all that.

regards

Klaus


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## lemlux (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Klaus:

Thanks for the chart. All of those cells delivered at least an average of 1.06 V at 20A, so any should be good for my application. This will be bright enough on the high output automotive running light.


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## Nerd (Aug 11, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

I remember seeing that Osram has a model with 12V 50Watts 10 degree beam. Now now, that is a light you shouldn't go around shining in people's faces.

Anyone has any new ideas or updates to contribute?


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## hotfoot (Aug 11, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

If you're looking at Osram halogen lights, check out their Decostar IRC series, which are touted to be up to 30% more efficient than standard halogen bulbs. This is due to a coating on the lens which reflects IR back into the bulb instead of allowing it to radiate wastefully outwards. The trapped IR helps keep the filament within optimum operating temp, thus requiring less energy to do the same. Apparently, a 35W IRC Decostar can replace a 50W conventional one!


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## Tater Rocket (Aug 11, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Unfortunatly, those are not readily available in the US. The only website I found that sells decent osram bulbs only does so in 10 pack cases for 60-90 dollars. I am wanting to make a dive light using one of the osram bulbs (20 or 35 watt) and 12-24 1800 mAH AA cells (could get 24 for $30 delivered) for a run time of one hour with 20 watts and 12 cells, 2 hours for 20 watts and 24 (which isn't a big deal in a dive light probably, I am not sure), or 70 minutes with 24 cells and 35 watts (all driven at 14.4 volts for LOTS of light). 

So, not only is the possibility of getting one of those bulbs slight, but also the likelyhood of finding a suitable container (2 to 3 inch PVC perhaps? Only could use that while it was submerged though) that is waterproof and easy to make isn't real likely either.

Spud


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## Nerd (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

I have a 35 watt deco star by Osram. I would agree that it's [email protected]#$%& bright and I use it to dry my handphone when water got inside the lcd screen.


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## darkgear.com (Aug 20, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Any update on this project? Law enforcement friend of mine is anxious to own one of these. Mostly to blind all the SF fanatics on the force






*BUMP*


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## Nerd (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Hmm how about 10 C batteries (Ni Cd), a voltage regulator, a 4000 K colour 12v 50 watt 10 degrees type halogen bulb? I do not know of any where to get this though.... most halogens bulbs i see are rather yellow, not as white as the Surge I have... too bad I blown the bulb...


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## bmsmith (Aug 31, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Lemlux, yes, as I was writing my above message I was thinking to myself that it (running parallel) most likely caused me grief only because I discharge at such high amperages. Strange things occur in cells that are discharged at such high rates. I think I agree with you that at lower current draw it makes less of a difference, and in your case, not enough to worry about. Charging the packs in parallel should be ok for a while, but as the cells degrade with time and use, you may end up overcharging one side while topping off the other.

As a side note, and I hope this isn't too far off topic (it does relate to bright lights!), I watched an episode of CSI today and very distinctly saw the investigators using Streamlight UltraStingers. The shape and charge points on the lights gave them away. I'm very happy with my US, but I'm always interested in even brighter flashlights, hence my interest in this thread.





Take care,
- Brian


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## Nerd (Aug 31, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

**Waiting Patiently for more updates**


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## bmsmith (Aug 31, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Lemlux, something to think about is that using cells in a serial then parallel configuration is less efficient than pure serial. Installing battery cells in a parallel configuration causes current loops to occur as each cell equalizes with its parallel neighbors. As you know, no two cells have the exact same current capacity. The cells that contain a higher capacity end up doing double duty: powering the device plus dumping power to the weaker cells in order to maintain equalibrium. This means extra heat and power loss.

I was introduced to this fact when I was modifying a radio control boat. I initially had the design use two 7.2V 2000 MAh packs in parallel (yielding 7.2V and 4000 MAh) to a 7.2V electronic speed control which then went to two electric motors (also in parallel) that were connected to the propeller. After each run, which usually only lasted 6 to 7 minutes (I'll let you compute the current draw), the batteries, speed control and motors were extremly hot to the touch. Not good. After discussing my problem with other fellow R/C speedboaters, I learned that I would have better efficiency and lower heat if I switched to a serial configuration. So I bought a new 14.4V speed control and rewired the batteries and motors to a serial configuration. Now the motors still get just as hot, but the speed control is actually cool to the touch after a run. The batteries get very warm as well and I'd be hard-pressed to say they were actually cooler (I don't own a heat sensing device), but without the cross currents due to parallel configuration, they had to be "happier" than before.

Anyway, maybe for this flashlight this type of thinking is overkill and unnecessary - I just thought I'd throw my two cents in. I don't mean to criticize your design - I'm really just thinking out loud. I wish you good luck in your efforts.

- Brian


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## lemlux (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Brian:

Thanks for the interesting and valid input. I wonder how much more severely assymetrical the discharge and balancing characteristics of two nominally identical but unmatched battery packs might be at your 20 amps discharge rate rather than at the per cell drains of 1.1 A to 3.35 A I contemplate.

I also intend to charge the packs in parallel which should leave them relatively balanced when operations commence.

I note that the motor controller was the one element in your system that seemed noticeably hotter. As you note, that element won't be present in my contemplated application.


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## lemlux (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Brian:

I would also guess that any balancing that occurs during discharge might lessen the risk of polarity reversal in the weakest cell of the combined packs.

I understand (perhaps incorrectly) that charging cells in parallel automatically shifts the charge to the relatively uncharged pack. I thought that the overcharging risk was for the first fully charged cell in a serial configuration. The final 50 minute balancing 100 mA trickle is designed to be gentle to these fully charged cells.


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## PsycoBob[Q2] (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Mildy silly thought about the heat problems...

You want to dissapate the heat, w/o compromising the light's waterproofness, right? Will silicone RTV sealant or high-temperature form-a-gasket survive the temps at the base of the bulb assy? If so, ventilate behind the reglector, and seal around the back of the bulb, at the base of the reflector. Looking at an MR16 I've got here, it SHOULD work, if the reflector doesn't shatter from having water hit it, and if the sealant can survive.

Silicone is (supposedly) good to something like 800F, and Engine-type forma-a-gasket is somewhat lower, but... It'll make bulb-replacement a pain, but it might work.


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## snake (Sep 4, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

hi hi lemlux,
any advice on how to charge 2x6 (6 in serial , then form a parallel)Nimh AA ? what Voltage or Current should I apply? for example if 1 battery is 1600mah for 1.2hr, then what will be the above set up?

coz I found some 2000mah GP nimh AA, as the above .. I could made a 7.2V 4000mah battery pack for the magcharger.. which is lighter and more powerful then that 1/2D come with it.. 

Thanks


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## Klaus (Sep 5, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Slight update





William is readying the housing for the 24xNimh cells but we are having some delays - stay tuned.

In the meantime I was scuba-diving this week in a lake with friends and one of them had a nice & expensive diving-flashlight with him I just had to disassemble. Much to my surprise I found 12 cells (1900ma subCs - so NiCd I guess) and an MR16 bulb. So this would definetely confirm our choice of the number of cells and bulbs !

Actually it was a so-so Osram 20W bulb (he replaced it once and wasn´t shure if it was the original type or not) - so I started to explain that there are much better bulbs to have like the Osram IRC used in this project - I gave him the detailed specs and finally when driving home we stopped by at my place to have one or two bottles of nice red wine while I started to play with some bulbs I had at hand and putting in a 35W IRC Osram (like the one for the project light) and when hitting the ON button the guys were just AMAZED. I think I don´t need to mention that the 35W Osram IRC stayed in his flashlight then - he will report back after the next dive. After this incident I´m just so shure ours will be JUST AS GREAT !

And snake - start with an around 9V (6 cells at 1.5V) and 5A power supply - this will give you an 1 hour fast charger - no problem if its 10 / 12V.

For lower amperage just calculate your capacity (2 x 2000 = 4000) and around an factor of 1.2 to get a full load - then divide this 4.8A by the amperage you apply and you get the time you can have it hooked up given the cells are empty. Like an 600ma 9V supply can charge this 2x2000ma 2x6 cell thing in 8 hours. Better still is to get a NiCd/NiMh smart charger kit (around 15 bucks?) to avoid overcharging and damaging your preciuos cells.

Klaus


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## snake (Sep 5, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Danke Klaus,
thanks for your advice! is that roughly 1.5V for each cell and 1.2X the capacity devided by hr of charge?
For Osram, I found those photo-opic line is quite good.


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## lemlux (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Snake:

Klaus is right. A smart charger will save its cost in fried batteries pretty quickly.


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## llvo (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

greetings!
I am stuck with a GE MR-16 50W lamp because the light run for just 10mins using a 9.6V 2000mAh Ni-cd battery.
Reading the previous posting here, it seems that the runtime of MR-16 with rechargable batteries are not so bad.
Please help.
Billy
"I love bright light"


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## snake (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

hello lemlux,
those charger here is quite confusing..some very cheap but only support few set up 6,7.2,8.4,9.6V just like a power supply around USD10..
some at remote control car shop looks complicate and expensive too..starting form USD30 to 80.. the top model has LCD, labeled fuzzy logic..may be some pre-set charge program..charge 1-14 battery, 1mah -9999mah... anyway lets check out those cheap one 1st

helle llvo,
12V 50W is 4A more.. so 9.6V 2A battery last for 10min is normal. 
2 solutions: change the bulb or battery..
may be your charger limited your battery set up, so try 2 x5 battery pack while charging then reconnect when use, to make a 12V 2A pack. in calculation it last for 30min may be less.


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## llvo (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Hi, snake, I'm from HK too!
I just took a look to those charger today...those that can charge 15 cells is very expensive, ~$100US.
In my opinion, don't buy those $10US charger...you don't know when will the charging process complete



.(can't afford to put the expensive battery at risk)

about combining two batteries, yea, I think I may try two 7.2V, because I can't find a 6V...

then in series the two become 14.4V!! hope the bulb can stand it.


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## snake (Sep 10, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

oh !
one more HK guy here..takecare for the typhoon.

then it is easy .. many prepacked 6 sub-C cell in Ap liu street la..
14.4V will be fine.. coz the voltage will drop after connected with so many cells and high current draw. as well that GE 12V 50W bulb has quite a long bulb life so over drive a bit will not be a big problem.


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## Nerd (Sep 18, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

This is just not taking off.....


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## lemlux (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Update Report on Carley Reflectors.

3" reflector
I can't get any W/A lamp I own far enough in the Carley 3" reflector to focus. That seems to limit me to the Carley 6.0 V 3.3 A 500 Lumen Halogen T-2 1/2 bulb with untrimmed leads. I'll buy one or two for this reflector. (I no longer have the extra long 6.30 V 1.92 A W/A bulb.)

2" reflector
The W/A bulbs fit but cast more of a flood beam than I had hoped for, albeit with a very hot hotspot that overlaps with the lensed filament projection. Maybe the unlensed Carley lamps are better tuned for a tighter hotspot.


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## bmsmith (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

Not sure you you guys care or not, but I found some interesting bulbs/reflectors here: http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=320150&type=store

- Brian


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## lemlux (Oct 20, 2002)

*Re: CPF project light "Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

bsmith:

Those MR units have integral glass reflectors. Various people have played with them but seem to have difficulty finding housings to hold the relatively fragile and very hot reflector.

Also, most of these MR bulbs, seem to have wider beam patterns. The narrowest spot I've seen is 20 degrees although 12 or 15 degrees may exist.


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## Klaus (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: CPF project light \"Ultimate Nighthunter Dominator Killer\" at 1500 lumens/1hour*

BUMP /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Ross (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: CPF project light*

interesting....


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## K-T (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: CPF project light*

I have huge delays on the housing and way not enough time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif , the inside is ready to go. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

Klaus.


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