# Lasercommunity Leadlights



## JHaro (Sep 13, 2006)

I'm a laser newbie, made my 1st purchase of a few Leadlights via the Lasercommunity.com for $40 offer after reading about it on Slick Deals and Fat Wallet. I even found this site and did some research and on lasercommunity.com's forum as well. I knew nothing about lasers but everything I read made me think I was getting an awesome deal.

Then my lasers arrived and all of them were DOA or died within 1 day. I did not modify any of them at all. According to the forums, I'm not the only one with this problem. Lasercommunity says Leadlight will not honor any warranty on this product, and that Leadlight now has sucky quality.

Last night I fired off an angry email to Leadlight and got an interesting response. They claim that Wicked Lasers/Lasercommunity never bought from Leadlight and has not contacted them about this quality issue. Here's a summary of the email (since I can't post it directly):

*1) WL/Laser Community hasn't purchased ANY lasers from LeadLight.

2) WL/Laser Community hasn't contacte LeadLight about ANY QC issues pertaining to this order (on lasercommunity.com, Nexus says LeadLight refuses to address the issue and maybe we should start a petition.).

3) Since these lasers were not purchased from LeadLight, LeadLight cannot support the product.*


I am beginning to suspect these are not really made by Leadlight - if this is the case I will be VERY angry! I'd like to contact some of the other Leadlight vendors to find if anyone sold these lasers to Lasercommunity. Is there a list of Leadlight sellers I can find somewhere?


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## dr_lava (Sep 13, 2006)

This is the first time I have heard of lasercommunity.com. It's interesting some of the mods are the same that used to browse here - athoul, nero_design, etc. Please post some good pics of the laser and case (and laser module) and maybe we can say if it's a leadlight nor not. It's possible that to save money leadlight is now using 150mW laser diodes instead of 300mW ones, thus the many failures.


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## Kiessling (Sep 13, 2006)

JHaro, please remove the content of the private communication from this thread. You can paraphrase it. 
Make yourself familiar with the rules and netiquette of this place, please.
bernhard


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## wells05 (Sep 13, 2006)

Lasercommunity IS wicked's fourms, just with a new name. Here is a link to Wicked's official response to the low quality leadlights:

http://lasercommunity.com/viewtopic.php?t=6749&sid=6b22f088cad3cc65d4f2b559c14e3c68

Maybe I can get some other insight here, but this whole Leadlight deal is a bit fishy. I am not a Wicked basher, just trying to figure out what is up. I picked up a 105 mW equinox in a trade, and have been happy with it. I also have had a few different leadlights at different times with out any problems, and had planned on ordereing a few more from lasercommunity. Glad I waited.

So, 
1. Wicked they held polls on their forums to see what people thought was the best <5 mW pointer - answer was Leadlight from most posters. 
2. They make a huge bulk purchase and offer a great deal on them. 
3. Some of the pointers (seemingly a high number) seem to be bad, and people are making a big deal about it. 
4. Wicked posts the linked response, and the mods claim Leadlight's quality has diminished. 
5. Now Wicked is stating that they are entering the >5 mW sales and will "dominate" the competition? 

Something just doesn't quite seem right. I am looking forward others response to this. Maybe it just happened by chance, and I hope so. Maybe it was a huge marketing ploy. What do you all think???


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## JHaro (Sep 13, 2006)

I'm at my uncle's house for the next week. When I get back I'll post some photos of the lasers so more knoledgeable members can decide whether or not they're genuine. 

I noticed something else that leads me to believe these are fake LeadLights. Someone on Lasercommunity posted an email from Wicked Lasers that instructed them to mail the lasers back to LeadLight in Taiwan for repair (It's already been established LL hasn't been contacted by WL regarding this issue). Anyways, the address WL tells people to mail lasers to is NOT THE SAME ADDRESS as the one on LeadLight's website.


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## wells05 (Sep 13, 2006)

One of the active members at lasercommunity is currently fixing the leadlights, which is cool. He's in texas, so no international shipping. There is a thread over there, so I'd recommend posting your problems there. If nothing else, you should get a working laser out of the deal. This still doesn't erase my concerns posted earlier, just shows that WL does have decent support, IF this was a coincidence.


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## livetofall (Sep 13, 2006)

well I had a thread that was concerning whether the hole was allready in there, and recived no answers, so I wrote another thread. I was considered to be "wicked bashing" because I wrote that maybe they are sending out the ones for $40 that did not want to mod up to high. That thread got closed. I read the fatwallet threads after being turned on to that forum a week ago and noticed how many complaints of them burning out. This is how I came to that possible assumption. Nero got on me about it but you must understand he also works directly with them, so I personally wouldnt take his scolding, awfully defensive he was. I also contacted someone that had Leadlights for sale on ebay. They wrote me that they are not CNI leadlight but the leadlight form taiwan. This confuses me. I though CNI made Leadlight or is it "leadlight" like apple or orange not Mcintosh or Granny Smith..see where i am going? SO who or what laser the one off the community buy or the abay one...uh remnds me of dealing with car salesmen. GOing by Wells comment how WL says they will dominate the <5mw there could be truth to my assumption.


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## wells05 (Sep 13, 2006)

True leadlights are not made by CNI. They are produced by Leadlight Technology INC out of Taiwan. Here is their website:

http://www.leadlight.com.tw/

There are a lot of imposters that generically use "leadlight," especially on eBay.


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## livetofall (Sep 13, 2006)

Well other then being silver not black, this looks just like the Leadlight 50w laser I got from Arnold, who i have forgotten to get a hold of per other thread
EDIT: the real Leadlight is from Taiwan, not COMMUNIST China. There are plenty impostors in red china> They do no not care about copyright laws. Arnolds are not CNI so i am writing this edit in case you read my unedited version. CNI is in red china. Also..the pen clip is different. the boxes and cases look exactly like Leadlight to the money..make your own decision about WL community forum buy and their reputation. I made mine. I hope they are happy with my $40..be the last they get out of me.:thumbsdow


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## Kiessling (Sep 13, 2006)

livetofall said:


> well I had a thread that was concerning whether the hole was allready in there, and recived no answers, so I wrote another thread. I was considered to be "wicked bashing" because I wrote that maybe they are sending out the ones for $40 that did not want to mod up to high. That thread got closed.



livetofall ... I say it again ... make yourself familiar with our rules. Moderative actions are not the topic of open discussion. 

Attacking other members personally is a NO GO, too.

So ... either you modify your posting style or you will have to wander elsewhere on the net.

bernhard


P.S.: JHaro, thanx


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## livetofall (Sep 13, 2006)

I am sorry Bernhard, but I do not understand what you mean by a moderative action. It seems to me that Nero calling me a "whiner" was attacking me. I had not attacked him until then. Could you please post on this thread what a moderative action is, as I noticed someone else got in trouble on this thread.


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## Kiessling (Sep 13, 2006)

A moderative action is when a moderator or administrator acts upon his or her responsibility and does something that needs to be done ... e.g. closing a thread, banning someone etc.
Those actions (usually) aren't for public discussion. If you happen to disagree contact the moderator in private.
Also ... stuff like "he started it first" and the like won't help either.
So ... we all calm down now and pay attention that this hot topic stays as cool as possible, please.

Carry on ... on topic.

bernhard


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## pseudonomen137 (Sep 14, 2006)

I too am confused on what a "leadlight" means. However I buy direct from CNI, and the confusing part I find is that they will fully admit that LaserGlow is a major customer and all of the higher powered PGL lasers are reserved for them, but whenever I mention Wicked, they either ignore me or say they do not sell to them. After hearing a lot of different sides, I really dont know what to thing, but it would be very irresponsible to go about calling this some major conspiracy, but something is definitely odd about WL/CNI.

I am also confused about optotronics. I've never gotten around to asking Jack about it (maybe he will read this and post about it?), but does anyone actually know who makes the RPL and PPL lasers? Some have said CNI (CNI->Coherent->optotronics is the most I've heard), some have disagreed. I think Jack himself says he doesn't know, but doubts it is CNI. The oddest thing I've heard though is a story from someone recently about RPL-like lasers from another source from a while ago, but I have no way of checking up on that source so I won't mention it.

Anyways though, the general idea though is that its really hard to tell where most of these lasers are actually coming from, and I guess it makes accountability a little hard.


About the Leadlight deal though. I am not at all impressed with WLs handling of this situation, but as was mentioned above: if you go onto the www.lasercommunity.com forums and talk to 'Gadgeteer' he is nothing less than an expert with lasers and it seems he is trying to help people out with the Leadlight situation as best he can.


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## wells05 (Sep 14, 2006)

Back to topic, and after thinking about this for a while, this timing just seems too convienent. Maybe a seller can help me out here - How long would it take to develop a new <5mW and have it ready for production? It was posted on lasercommunity by Nexus/Steve/WL Owner that Wicked's new <5mW will be available online by the end of the year. Could a pointer be developed, produced and be ready distribute in less than four months? Man, if this is a marketing stunt, Bravo for the idea and the "stones" to pull it off. :ironic: Someone educate me please.

pseudonomen137 - I believe I have read that Lambada suposedly produces the PPL and RPL. There is an old post here somewhere in CPF where I believe that another user claimed optronics' lasers were produced by CNI, and bootleg2go stated otherwise. I don't remember where I read the Lambada info, so take it at face value until Jack responds. I'm guessing that CNI doesn't like to talk about Wicked, as they are starting to produce their own lasers. I'm guessing that Wicked was CNI main distrubutor for a while, and now what for them? 

Don't confuse Leadlight with CNI or any other pointer manufacturer for that matter. Leadlight is still probably the best manufacturer of 5 mW greenies, IMHO. This is why the name is infringed upon often. This lasercommunity thing will raise doubts, but lets wait to see how it plays out. Obviously, there is questions about the whole deal. 

Especially don't confuse Atlasnova with regular Leadlights. They might produce Atlas' pointers, but they are to a completely different spec, and are a much higher quality than a normal leadlight. And I don't think they are "modded" as some people from opposing boards state.

EDIT:
Here's a link to the discussion about Optotronics. Sorry to drudge up an old post:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/105772&highlight=Optotronics


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## pseudonomen137 (Sep 14, 2006)

Well, I had a nice long response typed out to your message Wells, but when I hit reply everything froze and I really don't feel like typing it all again.

So, the general idea of what I was saying is that 'Lambada', as you called it :laughing: (sorry), is Lambda Physik, which is now Coherent in the CNI -> Coherent -> opto I mentioned above. I doubt the CNI link in it, but it seems that the Coherent one is pretty well accepted. The story I heard only adds to the confusion, and doesn't come from a credible source, but it would add to the evidence that the RPL/PPL are not originally CNI or Coherent products.

Also, a lot of people on LC/WL forums seem to think that Leadlight is CNI. I'm not really sure if thats just lack of research, or if there was any logic to is but I realize that Leadlight says it is in Taiwan, and CNI says it is in Changchun China, with no noticeable link between the two.

And about WL, the production time is a very interesting point, however I really don't want this to get swept away into intricate conspiracy theories and such. From talking to Steve it sounds as if the design for the WL <5mw greenies is already pretty final and at this point they're pretty much just working on producing the first batch, so I'm assuming this is something they've already spent a while working on.

Anyways, I'm still don't feel retyping my original post so that's all I have to say for now. *ctrl+a, ctrl+c, submit reply* (interesting enough, while I was typing that I pressed backspace and the browser went back, losing my post again, but I had luckily alread copied it)


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## wells05 (Sep 14, 2006)

Lambada, nice one



. I got lost in my conspiratous(sp?) rant. Not that I know anything about them (obviously), but I was refering to 
Hangzhou Lambda Photonics Technology Co.,Ltd. 
http://www.lphotonics.com/products/lasers/1-1-6.htm (specs look similar to RPL) 
not Lambda Physik 
http://www.lambdaphysik.com/

Call my "theory" what you will, but one side isn't telling the truth. Leadlight says they didn't sell to Wicked - Wicked says Leadlight won't support Wicked's attempts to fix the said Leadlights, etc, etc. I hope it gets sorted out, with one side taking ownership. My rant was definately skewed against Wicked and I probably should have taken a more subjective approach in my post. If Wicked is not at any fault, I will post my mistake here.


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## pseudonomen137 (Sep 14, 2006)

Well, this whole RPL situation is getting me more and more interested as I read into it.

Honestly, I've seen so much... dishonesty from WL, CNI, etc. already that the Leadlight deal does not surprised me at all. It does seem that in this case Leadlight is more the one to blame though, and WL is just being irresponsible. Anyways, I will try researching the RPL/PPL thing more (just out of my own curiosity) and if I find out anything more I'll post it.

Thanks for the lphotonics link BTW!


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## wells05 (Sep 14, 2006)

You posted as I was editing my previous post - updated link. I think you sleep about as much as me - very little....:sleepy:


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## bootleg2go (Sep 14, 2006)

pseudonomen137 said:


> Well, this whole RPL situation is getting me more and more interested as I read into it.
> 
> Honestly, I've seen so much... dishonesty from WL, CNI, etc. already that the Leadlight deal does not surprised me at all. It does seem that in this case Leadlight is more the one to blame though, and WL is just being irresponsible. Anyways, I will try researching the RPL/PPL thing more (just out of my own curiosity) and if I find out anything more I'll post it.
> 
> Thanks for the lphotonics link BTW!



Hi pseudonomen137,
Wells05 is right, Lambda photonics is the manufacturer of the RPL. I worked closely with them on the basic design specs and what I wanted from a portable laser. Optotronics is the exclusive north american distributor for Lambda's hand held laser products. You are also right about seeing an RPL somewhere else. Right before the written distribution agreement was signed I had a verbal agreement with them and someone brought to my attention an RPL being sold on Ebay from an overseas location. I quickly emailed the VP of Lambda about this. The next day they told me that one of their sales clerks did not know of the agreement and they would take care of it.

Anyway, enough of that. How do you like your RPL?

Take care
Jack


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## jellyfish414 (Sep 14, 2006)

> It does seem that in this case Leadlight is more the one to blame though, and WL is just being irresponsible.



How is Leadlight to blame here? From the way things sound, Wicked Lasers bought or made some cheap knock-offs and tried to pass them off as Leadlights. They said they were doing everyone a favor by selling them at zero profit, when in reality their own cost was probably much less than the $40 they were charging. 

Sounds to me like Leadlight (and WL's customers) are the victims here. And now that WL has tarnished Leadlights name by selling counterfeit Leadlights that break, they decry Leadlight's poor quality and announce their own competing line of 5mw lasers.

A lot of words come to mind when thinking of Wicked Lasers, "ethical" is not one of them!


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## livetofall (Sep 14, 2006)

The votes are in! Thank you Wells and jelly for your posts! 

Woohoo!:goodjob:


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## pseudonomen137 (Sep 14, 2006)

jellyfish414 said:


> How is Leadlight to blame here? From the way things sound, Wicked Lasers bought or made some cheap knock-offs and tried to pass them off as Leadlights. They said they were doing everyone a favor by selling them at zero profit, when in reality their own cost was probably much less than the $40 they were charging.
> 
> Sounds to me like Leadlight (and WL's customers) are the victims here. And now that WL has tarnished Leadlights name by selling counterfeit Leadlights that break, they decry Leadlight's poor quality and announce their own competing line of 5mw lasers.
> 
> A lot of words come to mind when thinking of Wicked Lasers, "ethical" is not one of them!


 
I admit WL has a lot of problems that really frustrate me, and the Leadlight deal definitely could have been better handled by the, but I think accusing them of selling fake leadlights is going too far. It's not like they would really stand to gain much from it anyway if they did considering how much more they are probably already making from their other lasers. A half-decent scammer wouldn't be as stupid as that.

EDIT: Yeah, I just got my 4 lasercommunity/WL leadlights today and all the packaging is the standard Leadlight stuff. Sure, its possible to fake, but counterfeiting pennies would probably be more profitable.


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## dr_lava (Sep 15, 2006)

leadlight gets the case made by someone.. possible that WL bought some, too. It does seem very doubtful that WL would sell a bunch of leadlights right before the low power lasers they were planning to sell go on the market, unless they knew they would benefit somehow. We won't know for sure if they are counterfeit until someone fully documents a detailed dissection. The poor newbies at LC don't have a clue they could have been taken. No one has even posted current draw specs yet!!


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## wells05 (Sep 15, 2006)

I don't think that Jelly was saying they were sold for profit, but to "taint" the leadlight name brand while entering into the LL dominated segment of the market. If so, that is where the real value lies. Did it happen? I don't know. I quite interested to see the outcome.

EDIT:
Livetofall - measure the draw and then tear that sucker apart. Post pictures.


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## Athoul (Sep 15, 2006)

Until everything plays out, no one knows who is actually at fault. Making accusations without any proof is rather silly. Any of the companies involved can be at fault, at this point we don't know enough. Jellyfish414, I personally have nothing agaisnt you, but I have to say that you seem to always take any chance you get to discredit Wicked (at least from what I can tell), that's neither fair nor productive.

Apparently these are real leadlights ( I don't have one myself so I can't verify), however Gadgeter who works with lasers has offered to assist those with problems. He will of course be able to see if they have been tampered with, are fakes, or were jsut bad batches etc. He's doing this free of charge, which is rather nice. For those interested, parhaps ask him about them, though I don't mean this for everyone to now go and bug the poor guy!

As to the situation, I think it's best to step back and let things play out. The facts will come out eventually and it will properly awnser everyones questions. I believe lasercommunity has asked that the full communication with leadlight be posted in the forum there in an attempt to have everything brought out into the open for everyone to see.

As for being a mod, yeah I'm a mod/admin over there, as is nero_design. However, we do it voluntarily. The layout is going through a change, such that it will focus on different types of lasers in general rather then a specific brand/company.


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## livetofall (Sep 15, 2006)

wells05 said:


> I don't think that Jelly was saying they were sold for profit, but to "taint" the leadlight name brand while entering into the LL dominated segment of the market. If so, that is where the real value lies. Did it happen? I don't know. I quite interested to see the outcome.
> 
> EDIT:
> Livetofall - measure the draw and then tear that sucker apart. Post pictures.


 
Uhhhhhh problem is that im kinda a dummy there. I only know mine had a hole there which was my original question. I dont knwo if i have ampmeter to check. would need the link to check that. What confuses me is that these are supposed to be 110s and i read wrong and turned counterclockwise and think i got a little brighter. I dont have screwdriver good enough to move too far. So if this is a 110 as advertised. how come is seems i got brghter going counter clockwise:thinking: 

Once i got the thing i knew there was no way i would do a stage 2. the picture is SO blown up lol.


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## Kiessling (Sep 15, 2006)

Just a gentle reminder to keep this civil, stick to the facts, avoid attackng members and their integrity and don't go into WL bashing. Thanx 
bernhard


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## jellyfish414 (Sep 15, 2006)

> Until everything plays out, no one knows who is actually at fault. Making accusations without any proof is rather silly. Any of the companies involved can be at fault, at this point we don't know enough.



Athoul, I don't know if you read the first post of this thread or not, but Leadlight says WL did not purchase these lasers from them, nor has WL contacted them about any quality issues. Posts by WL on their site state the opposite (WL claims the lasers were purchased directly and Leadlight simply refuses to honor their warranty).

I guess it comes down to who holds the most credibility - Leadlight or Wicked Lasers?


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## Edwood (Sep 15, 2006)

pseudonomen137 said:


> EDIT: Yeah, I just got my 4 lasercommunity/WL leadlights today and all the packaging is the standard Leadlight stuff. Sure, its possible to fake, but counterfeiting pennies would probably be more profitable.




Can you post pics of them and the packaging so that others can confirm if theirs matches or not?

-Ed


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## pseudonomen137 (Sep 15, 2006)

Once again, to put it bluntly, you'd have to be an (edited) to think WL is making fake Leadlights for whatever reason. If leadlight was not making these, they would have done something about it as this is tarnishing their name. I've found that these asian laser companies are very fond of telling nothing more than the information they feel they need to tell, and this is likely one of those situations.

Yes, something is wrong with the whole deal, but nothing like what you're suggesting. I think Athoul and Nero both show a lot of WL bias and I don't really trust their opinions on this issue, but this is getting way overblown.

As for pictures, I was planning on doing some basic tests on these items and taking pictures of the process, but I really don't have time for it right now. Hopefully I will have some up by the end of the weekend, but until then, if you're going to start making up random theories, at least keep them realistic. I don't read CPF much, but I wasn't under the impression it was a tabloid.


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## Kiessling (Sep 15, 2006)

pseudonomen137 ... we do not call each other idiots. Ploease edit your post. thank you.
bernhard


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## wells05 (Sep 15, 2006)

Until you can prove otherwise, I'd be careful with the name calling. This is a public forum. People post THEIR OWN OPINIONS. Thus, any semi intelligent reader will take it as so. There isn't any hard evidence yet, so people will form opinions - with some skewed each way. People are going to take take pot shots, that is why the board is moderated. 

I would probably refrain from calling potential clients names, but that is just my OPINION.


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## jellyfish414 (Sep 15, 2006)

> Once again, to put it bluntly, you'd have to be an (edited) to think WL is making fake Leadlights for whatever reason. If leadlight was not making these, they would have done something about it as this is tarnishing their name.



Have you ever heard of Alibaba.com? It took me less than two minutes to find someone selling green lasers for under $25. If I lived on mainland China and was purchasing 1000pcs I could probably do even better. 

And what could Leadlight do about anything? It's not exactly easy to sue someone in China. Microsoft, Rolex, Nike, Louis Vuittan, etc, etc all get bootlegged like crazy in China. Leadlight says the haven't sold to WL. Do you know what 1 + 1 equals?


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## pseudonomen137 (Sep 15, 2006)

I'm sorry for the 'idiot' comment earlier. I wasn't calling you all idiots, I was just commenting that it would be a pretty poorly thought out idea to think WL is faking leadlights for some money.

Jellyfish, I have contacted some of the cheap pointer manufacturers in the past and know that with an order of 1000, you could do a good bit better than the LC price. However, these would have to be faked leadlights - counterfeits - not just regular green laser pointers, so it would involve a bit more in overhead cost. Also, at $35 or so apiece, with the fees and such they have to pay, they really wouldn't be able to make more than a few bucks per laser. Considering that they had sold about 400 of the lasers a couple days ago, that really doesn't add up to much for WL. Why would a company ruin its reputation to make $1000, when they could just sell 1 Spyder 300 and probably make that much? Sure, if one wanted to, if you bought a couple hundred thousand in supplys, and paid about 2 cents apiece to produce them, they could probably fake US pennies well enough that no one would know, but where's the logic in that?

The only idea that has some thought to it is that they were trying to ruin leadlight's name, but that does not seem likely. They could attack another company many better ways than than by faking their lasers and selling them. Regardless of quality reputation of lasers, I would not trust a word of what Leadlight is saying about not selling to WL. I have dealt with these Chinese and such laser companies before, and I'll tell you that getting the truth out of them would be easier than from a used car salesman (and the used car salesman can't pretend he doesn't understand your language very well).

I realize that there are a lot of biases in this. I comment about the poor quality of the WL fusion lasers and such on the LC forums, and provide some evidence for it, and neither Steve, Nero, or Athoul have seemed to do anything but argue and defend WL against me. However, now I come here to CPF and find I am having to defend WL because some people are coming up with ridiculous speculations of what WL could be doing.

Basically, I am trying to look at the evidence objectively, and make my opinion off of that. That is why I post on WL about the quality issues despite others insistence I'm wrong. The way I see it is that for the Leadlight issue, there is very little evidence towards them being faked, and a lot to the contrary. Only bias can explain why there are so many people accusing these of being faked leadlights, and I wish it would try thinking about it more logically.

By the way, I have been told by CNI that they too do not sell to Wicked. Anyone want to start saying they are faking those lasers too?


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## VF1Jskull1 (Sep 15, 2006)

i guess i got lucky with the lottery got a working one....knock on wood..... love this greenie....


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## Athoul (Sep 15, 2006)

I try to remain unbiased towards any company, I didn't think I said anything that would suggest a bias. If I had said one of the two companies were at fault it might express bias, however I merly stated that we do not know the facts. How accurate is the OP's statement, I haven't looked into it but it's best not to take things at face value. Gadgeteer has verified that these are real leadlights and not fakes, so somethings odd but I myself don't have enough information to really point fingers anywhere and so I won't.


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## That_Guy (Sep 15, 2006)

My two cents:

I haven't read all of this thread thoroughly, but I don't think anyone is claiming that WL is manufacturing fake Leadlights, only purchasing fake Leadlights. However I don't believe that to be the case. While they're a number of Leadlight look-alikes on eBay they are just that, look-alikes. I am not aware of any Leadlight look-alikes that would stand up to close scrutiny, although it's possible that they do exist. A number of people on LC have partially disassembled them to mod them so if indeed they were fakes I'm sure someone would have noticed.

While this hasn't been mentioned much in this thread, I also don't believe that WL is modding the lasers themselves and cherry picking the best ones to sell at a higher price, and selling the worst ones. While this may be profitable for a kid on eBay, for a company as big as WL it just doesn't make business sense due to the time and labour required for relatively little gain, although this is China we're talking about so I could be wrong. The fact that they have a pre drilled hole doesn't mean anything, since many Leadlights come with a hole from the factory.

I also don't believe it is a case of Leadlights quality having diminished as claimed by WL. Judging by the number of people who have bought a number of lasers and had them ALL fail, the failure rate probably exceeds 50%. It’s possible that Leadlights quality has dropped, but not by this much. With a failure rate >50% they wouldn't stay in business for long, and we would have heard about it from other retailers and their customers. The high failure rate must be an anomaly.

What I think is most likely is WL bought a batch of "reject" Leadlights for a bargain basement price. It's unlikely Leadlight themselves would sell such a thing due to it tarnishing their name (although they could have sold to WL in the hope that it would tarnish their name), so WL probably bought it from another supplier, which is why Leadlight haven't heard anything. A supplier could easily accumulate a batch of “reject” Leadlights from those which failed QC, warranty returns or from those sellers who have gone through and cherry picked the best ones and sold off the worst ones.


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## livetofall (Sep 16, 2006)

Ok. I think That Guy just about hit it on the head.:thumbsup: What i see and which my i opinion is, is that they bought from a supplier in RED china, Leadlight is in Taiwan, which is separate for the most part (we wont get into the political takeover stuff) Taiwan respects patents, Red China does not. I have a Leadlight from Atlasnova. Same look, same oval button, but the pocket clip is different. Same case painted black metal, same box "green laser pointer". Now fact is that we can take that Leadlight is a technical shop, not a sheetmetal shop, not a print shop. You can buy a handgun case at Bi-Mart right now that will fit almost all your pistols. NOW for the good part.. the end caps are different. the true Leadlight had a flat cap about 9mm of length with an indent knurl. The "special buy" is about 8mm rounded (7mm length 1mm convex) this is an eye job,so please spare me the corrections. I do not think that Leadlight would change the clip and endcap design. What I do believe is that the case fabrication shop who would have the print shop make the boxes WILL SELL TO ANYBODY. Look at the box. Nowhere does is say "Leadlight,Inc" or "leadlight". I hope this is enough to say that it is very possible for WL to buy from a red china manufacturer (which they are based in) that has lookalikes. I do not think Wicked made these either, but I also dont believe they are Leadlights.

Hopefully no more need to


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## F360 (Sep 16, 2006)

Why doesn't someone just email Leadlight to see if they sold 1000 lasers to Wickedlasers?

Hell, I talk to Helen at Leadlight enough.......I'll pop her an email now and post the reply tommorow.


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## wells05 (Sep 17, 2006)

I emailed Leadlight Friday afternoon and received a reply that evening (just read today). Helen said that they are awared of the situation, and that Wicked Lasers/Lasercommunity did not purchase the lasers directly from them (they have never done any business with Wicked). She did say that the pointers could have been purchased from a distributor, but they did not have any evidence (or the distributor would not admit) that this happened. She also stated that Wicked has not contacted them reguarding support at all. Helen went on to say that if the pointers are Leadlight made, they will definately repair them for free if they are within warrenty and no outside force present.


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## F360 (Sep 17, 2006)

hmm seems to be something dodgy going on then...

I know though that Leadlights are $35 for orders over 1000 units - so the price was right 

I got no reply yet - although they are probalbly recieving ALOT of emails about them.


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## wells05 (Sep 17, 2006)

I found the reply email in my spam/bulk folder. I would agree that they are probably getting quite a few emails. I would guess that sellers/distributors would be very interested as well.

F360 - you said that bulk orders are $35 for 1000 +. Is that directly from leadlight, or through another distributor?


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## F360 (Sep 18, 2006)

That price is direct from Leadlight.

I got a reply saying Leadlight didn't sell any lasers to wicklasers, but a distributor might have. They also said they are also trying to sort/figure out what happened.


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