# Titanium Innovations L70



## CajunJosh (Jan 1, 2010)

Well apparently Matt snuck this in without a major announcement unless I missed it over on the marketplace.

I must say the price isn't unreasonable. It's very tempting if the thermal concerns have been taken care of.

http://www.batteryjunction.com/titanium-l70-locator.html

Wonder if there will ever be any upgrade kit for the L50... 7000 lumens would be nice.


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## dudemar (Jan 1, 2010)

I was going to start a thread but looks like someone got to it first.:naughty:

If I had the money I would definitely get my hands on one. You just can't go wrong with 7000 lumens at that price point. Don't forget the CPF discount!

lovecpf


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## CajunJosh (Jan 1, 2010)

It looks like they haven't had time to update the site yet and are still using alot of the information from the L50 page. The pictures are of the L50 so I wonder if they are using a new host for the L70.


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## XeRay (Jan 1, 2010)

CajunJosh said:


> It looks like they haven't had time to update the site yet and are still using alot of the information from the L50 page. The pictures are of the L50 so I wonder if they are using a new host for the L70.


 
Using the GE 35 watt rated D2S bulb is a BIG mistake at 70 watts unless for only very short (few minutes max) bursts. It wont last long and may explode if abused at 70 watts or even close. 
The arc chamber gets too hot with sustained 70 watt operation, even 60 watts sustained is too much for it. 
The quartz glass chamber becomes "plastic" softens and will fail (interior leak) or explode. 
50 watts overdrive is one thing 70 is quite another. 
The ballast low end is actually at 40 watts not 35, unless infact they are using the 35 watt GE bulb. 
Then it will obviously run reliably down at 35 watts and not flicker (unstable arc).

As far as I know the same housing is being used without change.


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## AEHaas (Jan 1, 2010)

I found this link showing that up to 70 watts is usable:

http://www.xenonvalot.com/boost.html

aehaas


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## BVH (Jan 1, 2010)

Looks like a marketing/sales site.

Matt, what bulb are you using in the new L70?


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## SunFire900 (Jan 1, 2010)

CajunJosh said:


> It looks like they haven't had time to update the site yet and are still using alot of the information from the L50 page. The pictures are of the L50 so I wonder if they are using a new host for the L70.



It looks that way. Even the pics are probably of the L50.

I am (almost) sure that the L70 will be a little different in design since it says that the head will swivel 180deg. left & right and 90deg. up and down. The L50 won't, unless I'm nuts. This may be why Matt hasn't chimed in yet.

We'll soon see.


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## Lips (Jan 1, 2010)

SunFire900 said:


> It looks that way. Even the pics are probably of the L50.
> 
> I am (almost) sure that the L70 will be a little different in design since it says that the head will swivel 180deg. left & right and 90deg. up and down. The L50 won't, unless I'm nuts. This may be why Matt hasn't chimed in yet.
> 
> We'll soon see.







Believe the L70 will be same body as L50... The 90 deg up and down would be for the cheaper version that has moving head at bottom of page (30 or 50 watts and not changeable)


Maybe the Skinny DL-50 would be a nice MID-Point bulb for the L70...

Some pics of the GE 35 vs Skinny and Fatboy DL-50.
















































































__________________________________________________________________________________________


*All shots full Manual Camera Controlls*

*Rotating Focus on Xeray marked and locked for each shot*



*Barn Burner Vs Xeray 50w GE35w*







*Xeray 50w Bulb Rotation DL-50 Fatboy vs GE35W vs DL-50 Skinny*







*Barn Burner Vs Xeray 50w GE35w with a .5 sec exposer step-down*







Cheers


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## AEHaas (Jan 1, 2010)

L70: Unit Dimensions: 11.8" long, 4.35" wide, and 6.7" tall

L50: Unit Dimensions: 11" long, 5.25" wide, and 6" tall

Same for both:
Reflector Diameter: 4.25"
Unit Weight 5.3 lbs.

aehaas


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## SunFire900 (Jan 1, 2010)

I was expecting the L70 to look like the L50 and maybe it will. The person responsible for listing the new light (L70) must have had tee many martoonis to have been able to screw up the description that much! Oh, well.

Lips, I'm glad you were able to see through the smoke screen and come up with the right solution.


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## Parker VH (Jan 1, 2010)

Is there any reason why the Fatboy bulb wouldn't be a good bulb swap for this light?


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## BVH (Jan 1, 2010)

I would say this is a good application for a Fatboy, IMHO. But before that, let's see what bulb Matt is using.


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## kakster (Jan 1, 2010)

SunFire900 said:


> It looks that way. Even the pics are probably of the L50.
> 
> I am (almost) sure that the L70 will be a little different in design since it says that the head will swivel 180deg. left & right and 90deg. up and down. The L50 won't, unless I'm nuts. This may be why Matt hasn't chimed in yet.
> 
> We'll soon see.



I hope it's not this host; http://www.batteryjunction.com/titanium-lx50-explorer.html

Looks fragile, not to mention fugly.


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## Parker VH (Jan 1, 2010)

According to a previous email from Matt, the bulb is a D2S style but not a GE. He said it would be a Korean bulb.


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## XeRay (Jan 1, 2010)

Parker VH said:


> Is there any reason why the Fatboy bulb wouldn't be a good bulb swap for this light?


 
For sustained running down at 40 watts (low setting), the DL50/740 is the best choice. The Fat boy would be the 2nd choice. If it was a dual 50/70 watt (not 35-40/70), the fatboy would be best. The intended Korean bulb flickers down at 35 watts. It is stable at 40 watts and above.

Both versions of DL50/740 OR the fatboy will outperform "the Korean" bulb "70 watt" from either possible Korean source. Have seen and worked with both possible Korean HID bulbs and suppliers.


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## Parker VH (Jan 1, 2010)

It'll be interesting to hear from Matt on bulb choice as maybe they changed their choice from when I heard from him. I'm just chompin' at the bit to actually use one of my two Fatboys as I've never had a light utilizing one before.


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## tab665 (Jan 1, 2010)

yeah, Matt is going to have to correct a couple of the descriptions for his new items. the L30 scout's description calls it a L50 scout several times, and then calls it the L50 locator at least once.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 3, 2010)

XeRay said:


> Using the GE 35 watt rated D2S bulb is a BIG mistake at 70 watts unless for only very short (few minutes max) bursts.
> ...





XeRay said:


> ...
> Both versions of DL50/740 OR the fatboy will outperform "the Korean" bulb "70 watt" from either possible Korean source. Have seen and worked with both possible Korean HID bulbs and suppliers.



I'm not sure what all the pointless references to mistake, bulb failure, explosions, etc. do for anyone. Especially if you started knocking the light about a bulb that it may not even be using. Let's get some concrete facts instead of randomly trying to shoot down possibilities. I always love reading your posts due to the wealth of knowledge you have. I welcome your ideas on how one could take the stock L70 product and improve it.



tab665 said:


> yeah, Matt is going to have to correct a couple of the descriptions for his new items. the L30 scout's description calls it a L50 scout several times, and then calls it the L50 locator at least once.



I agree that the pages need to be corrected. I can't wait to get more detailed info about the product from MattK in the marketplace soon. Once we have better details I'd love to know if we have the option of buying different bulbs to safely use in it.


*For now though, seeing as how it will be the only reasonably accessible/ available 70W HID setup for the lowly enthusiast on the market, I'm quite happy with a working light and a Korean bulb. Until someone can build and make available something better, and until we have more details/ an actual review, I think a lot of us can be happy that MattK is bringing such a product to the market.*


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## SunFire900 (Jan 3, 2010)

PhantomPhoton said:


> *For now though, seeing as how it will be the only reasonably accessible/ available 70W HID setup for the lowly enthusiast on the market, I'm quite happy with a working light and a Korean bulb. Until someone can build and make available something better, and until we have more details/ an actual review, I think a lot of us can be happy that MattK is bringing such a product to the market.*



+1 Thanks, Matt :thumbsup:


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## XeRay (Jan 3, 2010)

PhantomPhoton; "I'm not sure what all the pointless references to mistake, bulb failure, explosions, etc. do for anyone. Especially if you started knocking the light about a bulb that it may not even be using. *They should be much more careful when they unveil a product, better to have no bulb info etc at this point than wrong info. After all, they are taking pre-orders, according to the listing.* Let's get some concrete facts instead of randomly trying to shoot down possibilities. I always love reading your posts due to the wealth of knowledge you have. I welcome your ideas on how one could take the stock L70 product and improve it." *I already did that (either version DL-50).*

*If the unit is in fact 35 watts on the low end and not 40 watts (someone will measure it when they come out). *
*Then either of the Korean bulbs is a poor solution (flickering). Maybe the GE is being used for this 35 watt low power setting reason.*
*If the light is 40 watts on the low end, then the Korean bulbs (either) is likely an OK choice, just not the best one. *
*It will be a good solution for keeping the total price down which is important for the average buyer.*


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## Patriot (Jan 3, 2010)

XeRay said:


> *It will be good solution for keeping the total price down which is important for the average buyer.*





I'm just not sure how average the buyers of the L70 will be. I'm thinking it will be a enthusiast, police and special applications light. When a light gets up into the $1000 range I would think that most would rather ditch the Korean bulb and have a GE for another $125. They use a GE in the L50 so it seems odd that they wouldn't use a 50W GE in the L70.


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## XeRay (Jan 3, 2010)

Patriot said:


> I'm just not sure how average the buyers of the L70 will be. I'm thinking it will be a enthusiast, police and special applications light. When a light gets up into the $1000 range I would think that most would rather ditch the Korean bulb and have a GE for another $125. They use a GE in the L50 so it seems odd that they wouldn't use a 50W GE in the L70.


 
GE does NOT make ANY "specialty" bulbs like Philips does, GE is a small player in this particular product class. Philips is King, Osram (Sylvania) is Queen and GE is last of the 3. 
GE only make the 35 watt rated D2S that could be physically installed in this product. Osram Sylvania also makes no other bulbs than 35 watt in this product class as well. It is my opinion the GE bulb would be a mistake for this 35/70 or 40/70 product.
It is also my opinion that if the unit is in fact 35/70 watt then the DL50/740 is the best choice. If it is 40/70 watt, then the Fatboy is the prefered bulb to use.
GE does make a slightly superior 35 watt D2S bulb compared to Philips or Osram suitable for the 30-50 watt lights. Much higher than 55 watts (true) it is a problematic solution. 70 or 75 watts is WAY "over the top" for that GE "35 watt" bulb.


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## Lips (Jan 3, 2010)

Patriot said:


> I'm just not sure how average the buyers of the L70 will be. I'm thinking it will be a enthusiast, police and special applications light. When a light gets up into the $1000 range I would think that most would rather ditch the Korean bulb and have a GE for another $125. They use a GE in the L50 so it seems odd that they wouldn't use a 50W GE in the L70.





Don't think GE or Philips makes either version of the 50w bulb anymore. Can't find them anywhere on the web so getting 50 watt + bulb in P32d socket may not be easy...


From what I've read you would just have to change out the Asian bulb sooner (150 hrs or so) to keep the output lumens up.


This is an old thread where some of us tested the Barnburner for runtimes:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/149979

The barnburner would get around 50 minutes of run-time at 75 watts. L70 is listing runtimes at 115 minutes. 25 minutes difference with 5 watts difference in power, hmm. A change in batteries from the 18650's moving up from 2200mah to 2600 mah could be in play to help explain the difference... The 50watt Xeray would run for around 90 minutes. L70 getting 115 minutes would be very good performance...




*Informative post I found on headlight forum about DL-50's:*

Dunc01-06-2009, 07:56 PM
^^^haha. This is going to be long, but worth the read if you're considering these. Lumens on the newer DL-50/740 is 50% at 1500 hours, The older style DL-50 is 50% at 3,000 hours and 70% of original output at 2000 hours. The old style has much better lumens maintenance than the newer current model. The new /740 produces 5700 lumens when new so 2850 lumens after 1500 hours of use. The older one produces 5300 lumens when new so 3700 lumens after 2000 hours of use and 2650 lumens after 3000 hours of use. The older bulb has double the performance life of the newer /740 version. The newer bulb has a 3850K color, the older bulb a 3900K color. Philips 85122 or 22+ bulbs will loose lumens somewhat faster when driven at 50 watts than either of the 2 versions of Philips true 50 watt bulbs. Additional info not on the other post: When a 85122 is driven at 35 watts lumens maintenance is 75% at 1500 hours, that is 2400 lumens at 1500 hours. I would say it is time to replace it for 35 watt operation no later than 1500 hours and even better at 1000 hours for good output performance. At 50 watts bulb input 500 to 750 hours for good output performance using the 85122. The problem is that both versions of the Philips 50 watt bulbs typically sell for about 3X to 4X as much $$ as the 85122. In light of this you could replace your very available 85122 every 500 hours of use and still be okay the cost compared to the true 50 watt bulbs. The older style Philips 50 watt bulb is a better performer for 2000 hours though and you can install it and forget it. I would replace the /740 newer version every 1000 hours for good performance. The Asian made bulbs will not perform close to these Philips numbers when new and the output will degrade much more quickly from there. I would guess that the Asian made bulbs either 35 watt or claimed 50/55 watt need to be replaces every 100-250 hours to maintain output performance. These bulbs are not a very good choice when a new Philips 85122 can easily be purchased for about $40. One ebay seller is selling 2 new Philips D2S 85122 for $75 delivered for the pair.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

parker_06601-06-2009, 09:35 PM
reason i ask there going in a modded r6 headlight. using infiniti fx35 projectors so the light wont scatter everywhere.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dunc01-06-2009, 10:31 PM
reason i ask there going in a modded r6 headlight. using infiniti fx35 projectors so the light wont scatter everywhere. You could likely have issues with heat and having the chrome peeling off because of it. I say don't be a %@#&* and get some 70watt ones. Hook them up to your 35w bulbs and explode them into shards of glass. :lmao





.


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## XeRay (Jan 4, 2010)

Lips said:


> I*nformative post I found on headlight forum about DL-50's:*
> 
> Dunc01-06-2009, 07:56 PM
> ^^^haha. This is going to be long, but worth the read if you're considering these. Lumens on the newer DL-50/740 is 50% at 1500 hours, The older style DL-50 is 50% at 3,000 hours and 70% of original output at 2000 hours. The old style has much better lumens maintenance than the newer current model. The new /740 produces 5700 lumens when new so 2850 lumens after 1500 hours of use. The older one produces 5300 lumens when new so 3700 lumens after 2000 hours of use and 2650 lumens after 3000 hours of use. The older bulb has double the performance life of the newer /740 version. The newer bulb has a 3850K color, the older bulb a 3900K color. Philips 85122 or 22+ bulbs will loose lumens somewhat faster when driven at 50 watts than either of the 2 versions of Philips true 50 watt bulbs. Additional info not on the other post: When a 85122 is driven at 35 watts lumens maintenance is 75% at 1500 hours, that is 2400 lumens at 1500 hours. I would say it is time to replace it for 35 watt operation no later than 1500 hours and even better at 1000 hours for good output performance. At 50 watts bulb input 500 to 750 hours for good output performance using the 85122. The problem is that both versions of the Philips 50 watt bulbs typically sell for about 3X to 4X as much $$ as the 85122. In light of this you could replace your very available 85122 every 500 hours of use and still be okay the cost compared to the true 50 watt bulbs. The older style Philips 50 watt bulb is a better performer for 2000 hours though and you can install it and forget it. I would replace the /740 newer version every 1000 hours for good performance. The Asian made bulbs will not perform close to these Philips numbers when new and the output will degrade much more quickly from there. I would guess that the Asian made bulbs either 35 watt or claimed 50/55 watt need to be replaces every 100-250 hours to maintain output performance. These bulbs are not a very good choice when a new Philips 85122 can easily be purchased for about $40. One ebay seller is selling 2 new Philips D2S 85122 for $75 delivered for the pair.


 

Lips, that is a quote from me (HIDPlanet Forum) about a year ago but 5 days earlier than this post, it is copied from me verbatim with no credits: 


XeRay said:


> Lumens Maint on the newer DI-50/740 is 50% at 1500 hours, The older style DI-50 is 50% at 3,000 hours and 70% of original output at 2000 hours. The old style has much better lumens maintenance than the newer current model.
> 
> The new /740 produces 5700 lumens when new so 2850 lumens after 1500 hours of use. The older one produces 5300 lumens when new so 3700 lumens after 2000 hours of use and 2650 lumens after 3000 hours of use. The older bulb has double the performance life of the newer /740 version.
> 
> ...


 
I was speaking about using 35 watt Asian bulbs bulbs driven at 50 or 55 watts not at 70 or 75 watts.

Philips does continue to make the DL50/740 FULL retail price is $250-$300 EACH (in that realm). I provide thousands to my Aviation and military customers every year. The fatboy is in limited availability, no longer produced. My company, however owns about 65% or more of the worlds remaining supply of Fatboy bulbs, a few thousand of them. We needed to insure a good supply for our own needs for about 10 years (2020) We have some contracts which require them. We will consider to have Philips produce (under contract) another 10,000 of them (Fatboys) for us only when our stock runs out. Unless something better exists by then, highly possible.

GE never made a 50 watt rated D2S (p32d) based bulb, they only ever made a 35 watt.



Lips said:


> Get some 70watt ones (ballasts). Hook them up to your 35w bulbs and explode them into shards of glass.


 
This guy did have this "original" statement right.


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## Lips (Jan 4, 2010)

Link goes to a password login but not surprising your post was copied. I've found pictures of the fireplace in my house (with lights in foreground) on lights for sale in China... Kinda like that guy in Australia selling the 30-50 watt Segawa lights on Ebay listing Xevision as a partner with pics :duh2: 

Small World now!




.


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## XeRay (Jan 4, 2010)

Lips said:


> Link goes to a password login but not surprising your post was copied. I've found pictures of the fireplace in my house (with lights in foreground) on lights for sale in China... Kinda like that guy in Australia selling the 30-50 watt Segawa lights on Ebay listing Xevision as a partner with pics :duh2:
> 
> Small World now!
> 
> ...


 
A couple of VERY well known people here are members of that forum as well, they can confirm it.

Oh I got "rid of him" making those claims (lies) and using our Website Photos on E-bay without our permission. I have "friends" at e-bay. They employ over 1000 people at their customer service offices in Utah.

He is also selling "80 watt" ballasts that are "70 watt" ballasts which output less than 65 watts. One of his customers on e-bay has already "called him" on it in his feedback.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 4, 2010)

Lips said:


> The barnburner would get around 50 minutes of run-time at 75 watts. L70 is listing runtimes at 115 minutes. 25 minutes difference with 5 watts difference in power, hmm. A change in batteries from the 18650's moving up from 2200mah to 2600 mah could be in play to help explain the difference... The 50watt Xeray would run for around 90 minutes. L70 getting 115 minutes would be very good performance...



Lips if the L70 is anything like the L50 they're using a LiPo cell setup. Plus without confirmed dimensions or any word from MattK whether the info posted on BatteryJunction is indeed accurate it's tough to draw any sort of conclusion at the moment imo. 
But whoever did mess up all that info on the website needs to be given a good :whoopin:!


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## CajunJosh (Jan 4, 2010)

It looks like they just copied and pasted the information from the L50's page to the L70's page and just changed the output ratings. I'm sure it's not using the same bulb as the L50 but I'm curious why Matt hasn't chimed in yet. There was so much talk about the L50 on the marketplace before it was released and there has been almost no conversation on the L70 except for a few side tracked posts on the N30 thread.


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## Patriot (Jan 4, 2010)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Lips if the L70 is anything like the L50 they're using a LiPo cell setup. Plus without confirmed dimensions or any word from MattK whether the info posted on BatteryJunction is indeed accurate it's tough to draw any sort of conclusion at the moment imo.
> But whoever did mess up all that info on the website needs to be given a good :whoopin:!




I'm staying away from those pages until they've been sorted out. Far too annoying to try to figure out. 




Dan and Vic, thank you for the info about the GE. I didn't even realize that the 50W GE wasn't made any longer. I wonder if it would cost significantly more to use the Phillips?


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## XeRay (Jan 4, 2010)

Patriot said:


> I'm staying away from those pages until they've been sorted out. Far too annoying to try to figure out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
GE (General Electric) *NEVER* EVER made a 50 watt bulb. They (GE) did not quit making it. ONLY Philips Ever made (DL50 "fatboy) and still makes one DL50/740 (for a few years).

They (GE) made and still make a 35 watt D2S bulb which can be overdriven to 50 watts with very good reliability.


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## Lips (Jan 4, 2010)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Lips if the L70 is anything like the L50 they're using a LiPo cell setup. Plus without confirmed dimensions or any word from MattK whether the info posted on BatteryJunction is indeed accurate it's tough to draw any sort of conclusion at the moment imo.
> But whoever did mess up all that info on the website needs to be given a good :whoopin:!





Phantom 

These lights have been around for some time now (for sale and drawing board) and should not be too hard for us *hard-core *light enthusiast to scout & intel out! Some models are newer than others but there is enough info out on the www to float a battleship! Decentralized sales strategy means the models will be given different names with the same shoe in the box... The company that makes the lights really pushed the market forward on these, hence the excitement. They also sunk a ton of money into property-plant-equipment so the way they go after the markets will be interesting to watch... My guess is broad based and creative sales strategys.


Cheers


.


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## BVH (Jan 4, 2010)

XeRay said:


> A couple of VERY well known people here are members of that forum as well, they can confirm it.



I visit there a few times a week. Makes some interesting reading.


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## dudemar (Jan 4, 2010)

Looks like all the new lights were taken off the site. I don't blame them, besides the release date most of the info was very sketchy...

I'm sure they'll put it back up again. I was really looking forward to hearing what MattK had to say about these new lights...



:candle:


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## Illum (Jan 4, 2010)

dudemar said:


> I was going to start a thread but looks like someone got to it first.:naughty:



you'd be surprised to know that the same time your thinking it yet another individual submitted a thread with the exact same name and exact same intention...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/255573

Perhaps a thread merge is in short order:nana:


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## dudemar (Jan 4, 2010)

Illum said:


> you'd be surprised to know that the same time your thinking it yet another individual submitted a thread with the exact same name and exact same intention...



Ahh yes young grasshopper, but that thread is for the *L30.*

Close, but no cigar.


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## Patriot (Jan 4, 2010)

XeRay said:


> GE (General Electric) *NEVER* EVER made a 50 watt bulb. They (GE) did not quit making it. ONLY Philips Ever made (DL50 "fatboy) and still makes one DL50/740 (for a few years).
> 
> They (GE) made and still make a 35 watt D2S bulb which can be overdriven to 50 watts with very good reliability.




Ah...now I get it. All you have to do his hit me on the head of couple of times Dan.  Thanks for your patience with me on that one. 



I wonder how much it cost to use the 35W GE DS2 bulb in the L50 and if it would add substantially to the price of the L70 to use a DL50/740 instead of the Korean bulb. If the DL50/740 gives a significant performance boost, I was wondering if it wouldn't be practical for the L70 to be sold with one since it's already at the $1000 price point light. I'm sure Matt has done his market research but from the standpoint of an enthusiast I'd just as soon prefer cream of the crop bulb.


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## XeRay (Jan 4, 2010)

Patriot said:


> Ah...now I get it. All you have to do his hit me on the head of couple of times Dan.  Thanks for your patience with me on that one.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder how much it cost to use the 35W GE DS2 bulb in the L50 and if it would add substantially to the price of the L70 to use a DL50/740 instead of the Korean bulb. If the DL50/740 gives a significant performance boost, I was wondering if it wouldn't be practical for the L70 to be sold with one since it's already at the $1000 price point light. I'm sure Matt has done his market research but from the standpoint of an enthusiast I'd just as soon prefer cream of the crop bulb.


 
I might consider doing a group buy on either or both types of DL50, /740 or Fatboy. Also, this may be the best way for BVH and Lux to sell off some of their excess inventory of fatboys.

I would also likely consider giving Matt a good deal on some quantity of /740s, a better deal than he could get from Philips here in the USA or from anywhere else in the world for that matter.

The GE D2S bulbs he is using on the other models were purchased from me (not by him), shipped to Taiwan, installed in the lights and then shipped back to the USA. 

Dan


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 5, 2010)

What the heck is going on in this thread? Someone giving away free sex or something? I don't see what you are all talking about on Matt's site.


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## Border (Jan 5, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> I don't see what you are all talking about on Matt's site.



It seems that they finally have removed the L70 from the web catalog. Guess they've seen this thread...


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## Patriot (Jan 5, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> What the heck is going on in this thread? Someone giving away free sex or something?



You missed out dude! 

Like Boarder stated, it appears that BJ has removed the info from their site and are regrouping for round two.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 5, 2010)

So I even missed the free porn? Well that ..... er.... uh.....I better not say that. :mecry:


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## Patriot (Jan 5, 2010)

Lux, for the L70 think L50 look-a-like with bigger stuff inside. For the L30, don't even "think" since I could never describe its appearance to you. Let's just say it aint the prettiest thing although functionally it seems to have good specs.


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## Larbo (Jan 5, 2010)

I want a L30...now I have to wait and wait and wait......:scowl:


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## Lips (Jan 6, 2010)

XeRay said:


> I might consider doing a group buy on either or both types of DL50, /740 or Fatboy. Also, this may be the best way for BVH and Lux to sell off some of their excess inventory of fatboys.



I got in on that deal also. Maybe me, Lux & BVH could work-out a deal with you on the new Dual Stage handheld HID your working on. 







XeRay said:


> He is also selling "80 watt" ballasts that are "70 watt" ballasts which output less than 65 watts. One of his customers on e-bay has already "called him" on it in his feedback.






I have one of those ballast although not from him. Below is info on test BVH did on it... 70w is about 1/2 way inbetween! Nice big chunk of ballast...



Input: 5.8 Amps @ 13.77 Volts = 79.87 Watts
Output: .58 Amps @ 58.71 Volts = 58.71 Watts
Efficiency = 74%


70 watt on left vs Ultra thin 50 watt







.


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## XeRay (Jan 6, 2010)

That "50" watt ballast is more like 40-45 watts. and better have access to plenty of active airflow.



 Photo is also a link, click on it.

This our 75 watt (output) ballast ~82 watts input, about the same footprint as the 50 watt you showed but about 2.5 times as thick, 2/3rds of it is vertical heatsink fins as you can see. It is 92% efficient 24V version, 91% 12V version. It also much better than passes (certified) DO-160E FAA and military EMI and RFI (noise) conducted and radiated specs.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 6, 2010)

XeRay said:


> That "50" watt ballast is more like 40-45 watts. and better have access to plenty of active airflow.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very impressive. Are these for sale to people like us? Thinking of making something with a Philips Fatboy bulb.


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## XeRay (Jan 7, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> Very impressive. Are these for sale to people like us? Thinking of making something with a Philips Fatboy bulb.


 
Yes, but not for a couple of months or more (3-6 months). We are ramping up production to meet the demand in aviation and other volume customer bases. That must come first, as I am sure you understand.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 8, 2010)

XeRay said:


> Yes, but not for a couple of months or more (3-6 months). We are ramping up production to meet the demand in aviation and other volume customer bases. *That must come first, as I am sure you understand.*



Absolutely! I'm only at the thinking out loud stage anyway.


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## Lips (Jan 8, 2010)

Short videos from youtube showing the redesigned head with threads for lens attachment...





Polttimon vaihto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa3KCguM_9c


Polttimon vaihto - Lighting match box
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZFkoZX1-Ok


.


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## CajunJosh (Jan 8, 2010)

Lips was that video of the generic L70 equivalent?


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## Patriot (Jan 8, 2010)

CajunJosh said:


> Lips was that video of the generic L70 equivalent?




I believe it was the generic L50.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 8, 2010)

Lips said:


> Short videos from youtube showing the redesigned head with threads for lens attachment...
> 
> Polttimon vaihto
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa3KCguM_9c
> ...



LOL...he's got all sorts of interesting videos posted:

http://www.youtube.com/user/taskulamppufriikki#p/u


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## CajunJosh (Jan 8, 2010)

If that last video you posted with the Polarion is the same guy in the L50 videos then I believe that's Vee from CPF.


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## Patriot (Jan 8, 2010)

Yep, that's Vesa.


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## MattK (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi guys - just noticed this thread. I've been at CES in Las Vegas for the past week.

There's been no marketplace thread because of the timing of this product release; Nov 15 - Jan 20th or so is the busiest 2 months of my life every year between 4th quarter sales and tradeshows - I just have't had the time to do my usual CPFMP lead-up thread. 

NONE of those item listings were supposed to appear - basically our webmaster screwed up. The listings were, obviously, incorrect - only the photos and pricing were right - the descriptions were just placeholders for new descriptions which are not ye finished.

OK - so the cat is out of the bag - we have not 1 new light coming but 3 new lights coming. I was PLANNING to announce this on CPF at the end of this week and we're supposed to have them on time to show them at SHOT next week.

Some quick answers:

An L70 looks exactly like an L50 - yes, those pics are of an L50 but since they look identicall...

We are using a Korean bulb. The ballast was designed around and maximized for use with this particular bulb. We discussed other bulb options with our factory and they would have required a ballast redesign and added signifcant cost for very little advantage. 

PhantomPhoton - thanks for being the voice of reason. 

Dan - I don't know why you feel it necessary to participate so actively in threads about my products. I almost never participate in threads about other dealers products because, unless I'm making unabashedly positive remarks, I think any comment or critique I might make otherwise is suspect and only makes me look like I'm trying to hurt that seller and their product or promote my own wares at their expense.


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## XeRay (Jan 11, 2010)

MattK said:


> We are using a Korean bulb. The ballast was designed around and maximized for use with this particular bulb. We discussed other bulb options with our factory and they would have required a ballast redesign and added signifcant cost for very little advantage.
> 
> Dan - I don't know why you feel it necessary to participate so actively in threads about my products. I almost never participate in threads about other dealers products because, unless I'm making unabashedly positive remarks, I think any comment or critique I might make otherwise is suspect and only makes me look like I'm trying to hurt that seller and their product or promote my own wares at their expense.


 
Matt, as you are likely well aware, we could still be actively selling this product if we wanted, including our Barnburner 75 or even 80 watt version. We chose to "move on" from this design for a number of reasons *I will not discuss here, to your benefit Matt*. 
We could even be selling the newer version housing (just like yours) with its dual power and focus improvements etc. If you have not noticed, we are not currently actively promoting a product in this "class". 

Good question, but I think the answer is obvious. We have an inside line on these particulars of development, from the past as well as currently. I don't think you want me to answer that question in any more detail as to why I know (claim) or seem to know so much about the current developments.

Guys, sorry to say, that is BS that the DL50 (fatboy) or /740 would require a ballast redesign. Beyond a doubt the /740 will do anything (and more) the Korean bulb can or will do. Matt must be repeating what he is being told.
The DL50/740 will last longer and output more light when new and it has better lumens maintenance over the life of the bulb compared to the Korean bulbs. The fatboy would likely have an issue down at 35 watts. All of this depends on the final bulb output wattage (low setting) to the bulb in the inventory Matt receives. 35 watts or 40 watts low. For the Korean bulb, I contend it will be a true ~40 (38-42) watts to the bulb to prevent flickering at the low setting.
Unless Segawa decided at the last minute to eliminate the D2 socket and use a rebased bulb so that people cannot easily upgrade the bulb on this version ???
I only have (pretty current) intimate details about the ballast(s) design and configuration and bulbs being considered in this project.

We were involved in many of the improvements made to this housing and system design. Its hard to distance ones self from our past when there is so much history ~5 years of it on this particular product (XeRay).

Dan


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## MattK (Jan 11, 2010)

I'm not going to debate or argue with you Dan, I'm simply asking for a simple courtesy.


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## Parker VH (Jan 11, 2010)

So Matt, since you brought it up. What are the other "new" lights coming out?


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## Patriot (Jan 11, 2010)

Should be the L70, L30, and that other odd looking focusing light that I've forgotten the name of. It was only posted on their site for a short time.


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## MattK (Jan 12, 2010)

The new lights are:
L30 Scout
LX50 Explorer
L70 Locator

Joining the: 
Illuminator
Mega Illuminator
N30 Search Light 
L35 Search Light 
L50 Locator

I recognize that the L30 and LX50 are not the most traditionally 'pretty' lights but they're all about function. 
-The L30 is a compact, flashlight format light with switchable 20/30W output and a top quality build. 
-The LX50 offers not just focusing but also an adjustable head lending it great flexibility for scene/area/roon illumination. It is also the only 50W HID in it's price class - an option for those who want L50 output on a budget.


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## MattK (Jan 17, 2010)

Now would be a good time to visit the marketplace or our site....


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## Parker VH (Jan 17, 2010)

Uh Oh, I'd better hide the checkbook


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## csshih (Jan 17, 2010)

MattK said:


> Hi guys - just noticed this thread. I've been at CES in Las Vegas for the past week.



Damn! my uncle was there.. should have told him to visit your booth!


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## dudemar (Jan 17, 2010)

Oh my.


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## MattK (Jan 17, 2010)

BTW - I'll have all of the new HID's with me at our SHOT party on Thursday.


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## Locoboy5150 (Jan 18, 2010)

Here it is:

http://www.batteryjunction.com/titanium-l70-locator.html

Get out the credit card!


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 26, 2010)

Patriot said:


> Are you sure you didn't slip through the cracks Fat Boy?


Irrespective of hearing both sides of the story, I'm just not able to visualize a Fat Boy slipping through any cracks.


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## Locoboy5150 (Jan 27, 2010)

If anyone has seen the new L70 or has actually bought one, please post your thoughts and opinions about it.  I'm very curious about it.


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## AEHaas (Jan 27, 2010)

Locoboy5150 said:


> If anyone has seen the new L70 or has actually bought one, please post your thoughts and opinions about it.  I'm very curious about it.



I have the new L70. It seems rugged enough and packs a punch. The throw pattern is fairly widespread even when adjusted for spot. When adjusted for flood it has rings and not much more light close in. It would have been just fine with the throw setting alone, similar to the PH40 in light distribution. The PH 40 is a warmer light with similar brightness. 

The low power setting is still very bright. It is slightly brighter than my 25W AELight.

I coincidently met a neighbor out last night who was walking his dog. He seemed to think the overall light was more - or that he could just see more - from the PH40. Maybe it was because the PH40 is warmer. It was a close call but it may just be the way I shined it down the long street.

I did not do any measurements but will do a ceiling bounce if I get time.

aehaas


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## petersmith6 (Jan 27, 2010)

from what beam shots ive seen and what ive read,i can a couple of simple changes that would make this a truly fantastick light.(and l50

1, spend a couple of $$ and put a proper reflector in there.the current one seams to throw by brute for rather than any form of reflection.

2, make it possible to quickly change the power pack.115mins of light followed buy 3.5 hours of darkness..no thanks.

3, while it can be run of an external power supliy ,it dosnt charge..fixit.

4,put a 3watt led in or underneath the main reflector....i can hear rumblings already but somtimes 100/140 lumins all you need.and it may just save you life.


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## DM51 (Jan 27, 2010)

For some reason, a post I had written earlier was either not posted or has been lost.

Fat Boy... I have edited your post as it contained negative advisements that were tantamount to trashing, which is forbidden by Rule 4. Your post now appears more reasonable. 

You will see that MattK has replied saying that the items will soon be available. I am sure if you had contacted him by PM in the first instance instead of rushing into print, this matter would have been resolved sooner.


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## Unforgiven (Jan 27, 2010)

Order issues as well as disputes to those issues do not belong on CPF proper and have been removed. Re-posting after said posts have been removed is also unacceptable and could result in suspension of forum privileges.


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## petersmith6 (Jan 27, 2010)

while many may not like what Fatboy had to say,shurly it his right in a democratic scociaty to be able to speak his mind.shurly if he has been let down after spending his hard earnd cash on a product that dosent perform or work hes has an inaliable right to complain and warn others?who would like it if they spent 500,600,800 dollars on a prouct only to find out some one could of warned them it didnt do as it should..but didnt warn any one.there are always two sides to this argument....so let US free people make our own minds up.


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## DM51 (Jan 27, 2010)

petersmith6 said:


> while many may not like what Fatboy had to say,shurly it his right in a democratic scociaty to be able to speak his mind.shurly if he has been let down after spending his hard earnd cash on a product that dosent perform or work hes has an inaliable right to complain and warn others?who would like it if they spent 500,600,800 dollars on a prouct only to find out some one could of warned them it didnt do as it should..but didnt warn any one.there are always two sides to this argument....so let US free people make our own minds up.


I have tried to disentangle what I think you are trying to say from the somewhat impenetrable way in which you expressed it, and the short answer answer is.… NO. 

This board is not a democratic society in the full sense of that term. There are rules that apply here, and CPF staff are here to implement them. In this particular case, there was an issue with the way Fat Boy raised this matter, and it was properly moderated by CPF staff.

Freedom of expression here does not extend to the point where everyone, no matter how unreasonable, incomprehensible, malevolent, drunk, or half-witted they may be, may post whatever nonsense he wishes. If you don’t like that, or cannot comprehend it, go elsewhere.

Back on topic, please.


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## kramer5150 (Jan 27, 2010)

petersmith6 said:


> while many may not like what Fatboy had to say,shurly it his right in a democratic scociaty to be able to speak his mind.shurly if he has been let down after spending his hard earnd cash on a product that dosent perform or work hes has an inaliable right to complain and warn others?who would like it if they spent 500,600,800 dollars on a prouct only to find out some one could of warned them it didnt do as it should..but didnt warn any one.there are always two sides to this argument....so let US free people make our own minds up.



WRONG this is not a "free speech" www environment. There are rules and terms of agreement that members must follow. The marketplace Jeer section is the proper place to post negative vendor feedback, not here.

*edit*
Oops, mods have already addressed this. never mind then.


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## Patriot (Jan 27, 2010)

AEHaas said:


> I have the new L70. It seems rugged enough and packs a punch. The throw pattern is fairly widespread even when adjusted for spot. When adjusted for flood it has rings and not much more light close in. It would have been just fine with the throw setting alone, similar to the PH40 in light distribution. The PH 40 is a warmer light with similar brightness.
> 
> The low power setting is still very bright. It is slightly brighter than my 25W AELight.
> 
> ...





Good first hand info about the light *Haas.* Thanks.


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## AEHaas (Jan 27, 2010)

OK, I did a ceiling bounce test just now. Table height at approx 18” AFF. Ceiling height is 14’. 

AELight P.I. rated = 200 lm, ceiling bounce = 4.93 lx
Solarforce Masterpiece = 900 lm, = 12.6 lx
AELight 25W Xenide = 1,500 lm, = 19.05 lx
L70 Low, spot setting = 3,500 lm, = 58.8 lx
L70 High, spot setting = 7,000 lm, = 91.5 lx
Polarion PH40 = 4,200 ml, = 85.0 lx

Meter: Extech EasyView 30. Meter was zeroed with each reading. All HIDs were run for 4 minutes before taking a reading. All lights were fully charged. The AELight P.I. was at a very slight disadvantage as I did not lift its bezel higher to be level with the others.

The L70 on high did seem a little brighter than the PH40.

aehaas

Lux measured, not lumens.


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## LuxLuthor (Apr 4, 2012)

Someone recently asked me a question about this TI-L70. Has anyone upgraded their bulb to the DL-50 Fatboy to see how it performs relative to the stock Korean bulb (taking into account this ballast vs. BB ballast?


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## Colonel Sanders (Apr 5, 2012)

I think it would be a neat experiment to take some lux/lumen measurements (as well as beam shots of course) on a Barn Burner and a stock L70. Then, install a Fatboy bulb in the L70 and try it again.:thinking:

I might be willing to supply the L70 test rat. :candle:


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