# I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be released



## Ctrain (Sep 2, 2008)

*I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be released*

Hey Guys,

Been researchin' all day... I want a really good thrower and was just about set on the DBS but have looked into it more and now I'm confused...
DBS, MRV, Tiablo, Spear







My needs... 

*Multi Level* would be great but not a neccesity
18650's are fine but i will be *travelling* overseas so it would need to also be able to take *123's* and run well on them
The Tiablo seems *lighter *than the DBS which I guess would be a bonus in a travel pack
I really love the look of the spear but it cant take *123's* I believe
Not concerned about flood just want *throw*
*Upgradable* would be great
so anyway... before I commit to the DBS and click to the checkout I was just after some thoughts?

Thanks in advance!


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## StefanFS (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Buy the DBS, you can use a lot of third party dropins in it, just unscrew the upper part of the head and take it out and change the dropin pill. That way you can use the cells you like in it and also easily swap between dropins.

There are pics here of what I mean about pills in the DBS and how easy it is to change between dropins.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190499

The Tiablo is nice, but it's best if you can mod it to be satisfied with it.

The Spear is also very nice, but no easy upgrades exist to my knowledge. You need to mod it yourself to run CR123.

/Stefan


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## Jarl (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

A 18650 has pretty much exactly the same capacity as 2xCR123A, so IMO you'd be better off with a universal charger, rather than splashing out on CR123's in advance.


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## harddrive (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

I have the DBS with a 1S Q2 5A (much warmer than the Q5 pills). It is a truly impressive outdoors.

I much prefer a single stage pill in a THROW light. I had the 3SD pill in the DBS to start with but found no need for low and medium power in a light with such a tight beam. I also like to use momentary without the levels changing. (I think a single stage thower + a multi level headlamp is a good combo. )

It's hard to get something that with run really well with 18650 and cr123. The DBS digital pills are for one 18650/17670 only. If you go for the other pills that can use cr123 you get reduced output/regulation on 18650.


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## mulder89 (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Hey harddrive I new you were on pills and now I know which ones!!! ha ha ha
Sorry couldn't help myself :nana:
mulder89


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## JKL (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



StefanFS said:


> Buy the DBS, you can use a lot of third party dropins in it, just unscrew the upper part of the head and take it out and change the dropin pill. That way you can use the cells you like in it and also easily swap between dropins.
> /Stefan



I agree with StefanFS,
IMHO the swap possibility like the upgradeability between dropins is very important , among flashlights above reported, 
I suggest the DBS.


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## Gunner12 (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

I'd go for the DBS and a universal charger. You can have a back up pill for times when you need to use CR123s.


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## ninjaboigt (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Hey, if ur on a budget, i suggest the Tiablo A9, from lighthound, their currently only 65 bucks! and they already sold out their black ones, so they only have natrual finish left....


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## sandbasser (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Raidfire's Spear is quite a thrower - I really like mine... (no pun intended). They're listed on 4-7's site; although I don't know if they have any in stock.


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## saabluster (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



Ctrain said:


> My needs...
> 
> *Multi Level* would be great but not a neccesity
> 18650's are fine but i will be *travelling* overseas so it would need to also be able to take *123's* and run well on them
> ...


They don't come any throwier than the DEFT.
It takes easy to find AAs and its upgradeable. It is bigger than the Tiablo or DBS though so no pocketing it.


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## I came to the light... (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

The DBS is your light. You don't get any better in terms of upgradeability - it takes P60 dropins, so pretty much any dropin will fit it. And it is the furthest thrower of the LEDs with reflectors. The A9 and MRV aren't close to its throw. The Spear is noticeably less, although not too much, but can't take CR123s, like you said. 

saablusters aspheric is probably the furthest throwing LED in existence. However, it violated some of your other conditions. saabluster has provided several information threads.


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## phantom23 (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



I came to the light... said:


> The DBS is your light. You don't get any better in terms of upgradeability - it takes P60 dropins, so pretty much any dropin will fit it.



CL1H takes P60 not DBS! 
With 3SM pill you have no regulation using 18650.
DBS has more throw "fresh out of box". Spear is focusable amd you can set it to the same or slightly better throw than DBS.


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## MattK (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

There's a new thrower coming in ~ 1 week.

No - I won't say more yet.


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## DArklite (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Not anymore.
The Spear is now only available with a textured reflector - no more smooth reflectors are available. DX shows one with a smooth reflector, but it also says "2-5 days".... which basically means backorder, which means no more smooth reflectors are available. Unfortunately, it's now the Smear. 

I had my mind set on getting one too, but ended up going with a DBS v2.


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## Ctrain (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



MattK said:


> I won't say more yet.


 

What about now? can you say more now???
Or what about now?

as good or better than the DBS?


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## MattK (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

It should be the class leader for throw - it was built to do that - but as I don't have a proto/sample (or a DBS for that matter) it would be unfair to say it was better - I'll leave that up to the revewiers here.


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## Ctrain (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

When do you think you will be able to tell us more? brand etc...


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## MattK (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

There will be an announcement within the week.


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## Ctrain (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

be prepared for the "are we there yet" countdown then! 

I will hold off on my thrower til I find out more


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## TDKKP (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



MattK said:


> There will be an announcement within the week.


 



Will there be another countdown promotion for this new king of throwers?


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## Gunner12 (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Does it have anything to do with Coast/LEDlenser?

Optics or reflectors?


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## MattK (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

I'll say this - if I ever do another countdown promotion I'm going to find a countdown clock I can adjust to match CPF time. 

It's not Coast - it's a reflector light.


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## qip (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

 definitely lol...i was trying to find one of those clocks too and something that would appear in the actual thread without clicking a link , java tool of some sort ....i will say that the contest was adrenalin pumpin to get that time JUST right as to when to click


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## MattK (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Yah - there were a ton of people who posted 'on the minute' but didn't get top 10; 0 posted people posted on the 'right second' but only 10 got top 10, 10 got 11-20 and the other 10 got 20-30 - and all clicked within a few seconds of one another.


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## Ctrain (Sep 2, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

perhaps you should just tell us now... :naughty:


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## TDKKP (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Let me guess: is it *RX1*?


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

MattK - It's a new day. Are we there yet?  :wave:


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## qip (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

its only a 1 week wait :thumbsup:


whats a RX1 ?


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



TDKKP said:


> Let me guess: is it *RX1*?


 
Tell me more?????


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## MattK (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

Might be less than a week....


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## Confederate (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

You didn't mention if price was an object, but here are some considerations: 

Aurora WF-800, $42.35

Aurora WF-600, $39.22

LumaPower MRV, $69

I have experience with all three and I don't really like any of them because I don't care for "throwers." The LumaPower MRV kit is nice because it comes with two reflectors, two click switches and a Spandex carrying holster. Of all my flashlights, this is the one hanging off my back pack (emergency provisions). Figure I might someday have a use for it and it's extremely well built.


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

I've decided on the DBS i think unless Matt can convince me otherwise with his yet to be released "king of throwers" :naughty:


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## qip (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

hes put you up against the wall and holding ya hostage matt


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## MattK (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*


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## TDKKP (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



Confederate said:


> You didn't mention if price was an object, but here are some considerations:
> 
> Aurora WF-800, $42.35
> 
> ...




- A dollar cheaper Aurora WF-800 in Black.

- Almost $2 cheaper also works with 2 x RCR123 Aurora WF-600.


And both of them are excellent throwers, some said throw better than DBS. Read the review on DX and here at Flashlight Review about them.


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## eyeeatingfish (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



TDKKP said:


> Will there be another countdown promotion for this new king of throwers?



I hate it when he does that...


Maybe its an upgrade for the MRV? MRV with an R2 LED? I guess ill hold off on getting the Q5 upgrade for the MRV.
MattK likes to work with lumapower so thats my guess. Unless Fenix is going to step into the thrower department but I would suspect we would hear about that already.


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## TDKKP (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



Confederate said:


> You didn't mention if price was an object, but here are some considerations:
> 
> Aurora WF-800, $42.35
> 
> ...




Your links of WF-600 and MRV are the same.

Here is the Lumapower MRV.


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

I think he gets some sort of weird pleasure out of doing this! 
C'mon... maybe just a teaser pic?


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## TDKKP (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Ctrain said:


> I think he gets some sort of weird pleasure out of doing this!
> C'mon... maybe just a teaser pic?



This *RX1* got my attention when it was first posted but had been delayed because of the earthquake in China few months ago.

But looks like it's not the one MattK is talking about.


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

so tell me Matt.... does it take primaries?


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## TDKKP (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Ctrain said:


> so tell me Matt.... does it take primaries?




I just noticed you and Glenn7 are both living in Tasmania, Aus.


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## qip (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

no doubt... i wouldnt expect a serious thrower to run on anything other than 123 or 18650 unless its a D size light but thats unlikely


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



TDKKP said:


> I just noticed you and Glenn7 are both living in Tasmania, Aus.


 
I'm north Glenns south... It's just a small island that looks like... Ummm... well... ah just google it! :devil:


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## Glenn7 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Ctrain said:


> I've decided on the DBS i think unless Matt can convince me otherwise with his yet to be released "king of throwers" :naughty:


I just sold my DBS (V1 grey coloured) yesterday at work - and was about to buy a DBS V2 because of its build quality & nothing seams to touch it in its class for throw - but I saw this thread today and unless this "new thrower" is better I will buy a new DBS V2 because I know they just work and work well - if you have had a torch for 9 or 10 months put it through its paces then sell it and decide to buy another the same it must be good :thumbsup:


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

we might be able to save on postage Glenn... :twothumbs


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## Glenn7 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

yes good idea :twothumbs bare it in mind - if this thrower is a flop (and I find it hard to believe it could shine farther unless the reflector is deeper and bigger which makes it a bigger & different class) i am getting the DBS from extremetorches.com.au $120 with free post


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Glenn7 said:


> yes good idea :twothumbs bare it in mind - if this is a flop i am getting the DBS from extremetorches.com.au $120 with free post


 
Thats awesome! I had my basket full at torchworld... damn that! the deal at extremetorches is way better! ... now i just sit back at wait for MAtt to give in!


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## Glenn7 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Ctrain said:


> Thats awesome! I had my basket full at torchworld... damn that! the deal at extremetorches is way better! ... now i just sit back at wait for MAtt to give in!


yer but I will get the 1S pill (constant 1.2amp) for $7 more because I had the 3SD and found that because its purely a thrower i never used medium or low they just get in the way - there are better lights for closeup work (you can get an OP reflector to make the light better for closeup work but what a pain changing between the two)- by the way i sold it to a hunter - he was wrapped that it through so far - but i still have a 2SD R2 pill just sitting here waiting for a DBS host :naughty:


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

In my shopping basket at the moment I'm just getting the 1SM 
Later on i'll get the 1S and the charger... I'm a bit the same, I wouldn't use it for its low or medium It'll just be a thrower.

Actually tempted to proceed to the checkout and i could have it by the weekend... buuuuut I'll wait. :sigh:


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## Glenn7 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Ctrain said:


> In my shopping basket at the moment I'm just getting the 1SM
> Later on i'll get the 1S and the charger... I'm a bit the same, I wouldn't use it for its low or medium It'll just be a thrower.
> 
> Actually tempted to proceed to the checkout and i could have it by the weekend... buuuuut I'll wait. :sigh:


Dito!! same order in my basket and my finger itches too - and I have owned a DBS - you think i could wait - go figure - but i tell you you will not be disappointed bro 
if you cannot wait tell me what you think of it when its in your hands


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Glenn7 said:


> if you cannot wait tell me what you think of it when its in your hands


 
I should be safe for today... only 30mins til i leave work and no net at home at the moment... but i tell ya... unless Matt come thru with some more info i dont think i will last!


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## StefanFS (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Throwers in this segment are very close to each other in performance, there's just a few percent of difference and it's actually hard to spot that difference in everyday use. I've had or have many of the lights discussed in this thread (except the new one being marketed here).

Since they are close in performance other factors become more important such as build quality, ergonomics, 'upgradeability', battery flexibility, size and weight. In my opinion the DBS is the choice for 'upgradeability', performance and ease of use. The Tiablo A9 for it's size/weight to performance ratio and ability to use different cells, the Spear for superior build quality and performance.

If any new offerings pop up in this segment there will be a lot of factors to consider, it might be slightly better at throw but lack in other aspects, or vice versa. But it will probably be in the immediate neighborhood of other lights in the long throw segment.


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## MattK (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

LOL


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## jabe1 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

... are we there yet?


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## phantom23 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



TDKKP said:


> This *RX1* got my attention when it was first posted but had been delayed because of the earthquake in China few months ago.
> 
> But looks like it's not the one MattK is talking about.



Or this one.

EDIT. Or this...


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Hmm a new thrower, 
It will be interesting to see,if it is a single led.
Just guessing here is it based on the D-MINI but bigger?


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## sunspot (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

I was going to pull the trigger on a DBS V2 but I will wait for Matt's new offering.


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## zpaulg (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



MattK said:


> I'll say this - if I ever do another countdown promotion I'm going to find a countdown clock I can adjust to match CPF time.
> 
> It's not Coast - it's a reflector light.



The countdown may have gone awry but it was still a fantastic promotion and I'm sure was greatly appreciated by almost all, you can't always please everybody.

Whether there's another or not many thanks.......YOU did a good thing!


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## Burgess (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Patiently awaiting the new announcement(s).

_


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## Imothep (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Waiting with you.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

:candle:
In the boat.


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## IcantC (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Waiting


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## AlexGT (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Matt, is it a new company entering the market or a known company upgrading or introducing a product?

AlexGT


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## BMF (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Matt, don't create a hoax! There is nothing going on to make a light can beat DBS.

Give me proof if I'm wrong.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Matt my DEREE BRIGHT STAR is waiting :devil


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

matt... are we there yet???? :sigh::sigh::sigh::sigh::sigh:


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## Helmut.G (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

matt, it's 2am in germany, gimme some info so I can go to bed:nana:


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Helmut.G said:


> matt, it's 2am in germany, gimme some info so I can go to bed:nana:


 
C'mon Matt, let the guy sleep!


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## AlexGT (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

*Spill the beans!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*​


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## eyeeatingfish (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



TITAN1833 said:


> Hmm a new thrower,
> It will be interesting to see,if it is a single led.
> Just guessing here is it based on the D-MINI but bigger?



Wouldnt that be the MRV?

I would be interested if they made a P7 based light that had some sort of new reflector design that was able to turn the different beam pattern into a massive thrower.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

OH a P7 that I would be interested in.
Mmmmmm


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## Gunner12 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Does it have anything to do with this?


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

MY DBS Trigger finger is gettin' itchy!


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## MattK (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

I told ya it would be a few days before I could post...think of it like this; we could announce it now and you could wait for the product to arrive or we can wait to the product to arrive, announce it and it will be immediately available.


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## bondr006 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

You don't know us CPF'rs by now Mr. K? We want to know all there is to know....Now, Now, NOW!!!! Dammit....:nana:


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## BMF (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Matt, your light won't beat THE ONLY KING OF THROWERS.

Am I right?


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## Ctrain (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

na its cool... tell me NOW and I'll wait :nana:


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## qip (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

im currently working on a real thrower once i scheme my plans on stealing this crucial part ,but i gotta figure a way to get past the silent alarms and hidden lasers


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## AlexGT (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

+1

Lets play 20 questions shall we? Just say yes or no, 

Is it smaller than the DBS?



Ctrain said:


> na its cool... tell me NOW and I'll wait :nana:


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## 04orgZx6r (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

:naughty:My guess is it is by Lumapower, the digital Q5 MRV has been out of stock for a while


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## MattK (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

LOL 

BMF - no, this is a normal light

same size class as a DBS


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

I can help with that. 



qip said:


> im currently working on a real thrower once i scheme my plans on stealing this crucial part ,but i gotta figure a way to get past the silent alarms and hidden lasers


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Is it actually a P7 LED?

:huh:


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## MattK (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

No - I've got numerous samples and prototypes of P7 based lights and they will never throw light like a single die light - even with fairly huge/deep reflectors. The only way a P7 will ever throw is with a considerable optic (collimator) which will kill the spill - and likely be quite ringy.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Is it over $200 bucks?

That's the best question I can seriously ask.


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## qip (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

got a partial teaser pic of the business end  gotta be something with big deeeeeeeeep reflector


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## Ctrain (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



Sgt. LED said:


> Is it over $200 bucks?
> 
> That's the best question I can seriously ask.


 

Very Good question... But i would rather he answer the what the hell is it question first :thumbsup:


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## jabe1 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Matt, you're really enjoying this aren't you!?


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Yeah but if it's more than 200 I can stop looking at this thread.:duh2:


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## Ctrain (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

yes very true... (Hint for Matt to make sure its a lower than $200)


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## MattK (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

way under $200

remember my teasing is like a public service - I may have kept you from having to say, 'if only I'd waited a week '


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## qip (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

no way its over 200 ..the only lights matt sell that are $200+ are surefires and hids and the AE divelight but thats a specialty light obviously ...so unless surefire came out with a thrower i think you are safe ,my guess is between $70-125


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## Ctrain (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

would a SF E2DL fit smuggled in it somewhere so you could ship it to me in AUSTRALIA?


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## AlexGT (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Cree, SSC, Luxeon, other led?


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## MattK (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Cree


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## Black Rose (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Q5 or R2?


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

If it's not R2 it's already dead in the water.


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## MattK (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

Q5




Sgt. LED said:


> If it's not R2 it's already dead in the water.



I disagree for a few reasons;

Firstly, a light is more than the simply sum of it's output - an R2 is brighter but only in an evolutionary sense.

Secondly, this light will be one of the brightest single chip lights on the market (barring 10W crazy stuff).

Thirdly, let me say, it was very hard to obtain R2's for the Olight M20's. The China/HK domestic distributors do not have R2's *AT ALL* and you can barely get them out of Cree directly. I am of the opinion that about 95% of the products claiming to have an R2 are Q-bins with hyped marketing. Don't you find it a bit odd that no named, respected, volume builder has offered an R2 light until Olight did? I know the Olight's have R2's because a buddy of mine got them from Cree and shipped them to China. Do you really think those generics on eBay, etc have genuine R2's?


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## woodrow (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

I paid the extra $$$ for an R2 M20 because I do not have any other R2 ledded lights. I am not expecting it to be noticably brighter than my brightest Q5 lights.... but its the latest led...and I thought it would be cool to have one. I think I remember that the R2 DBS lights were not always brighter than the Q5 or Q4 versions.


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## Ctrain (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

anything to do with the Tiablo website being updated?


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## TDKKP (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Ctrain said:


> anything to do with the Tiablo website being updated?



Tiablo website has been like that since last year.


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## Ctrain (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



TDKKP said:


> Tiablo website has been like that since last year.


 
nice work Tiablo


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## StefanFS (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



MattK said:


> No - I've got numerous samples and prototypes of P7 based lights and they will never throw light like a single die light - even with fairly huge/deep reflectors. The only way a P7 will ever throw is with a considerable optic (collimator) which will kill the spill - and likely be quite ringy.


 
An SSC P7 based light like eg. a Tiablo A9 with OP reflector still manages to light up a tree line ~200 meters away better than CREE based Tiablo A9/Spear/DBS etc. when it's really dark, in a semi lit city surrounding the spot from a CREE thrower is more visible. It's just another type of beam with the P7, floodier with a bright centre rather than a small thrower spot and dimmer spill as from the CREE throwers. It throws well, just differently.


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## Glenn7 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



StefanFS said:


> An SSC P7 based light like eg. a Tiablo A9 with OP reflector still manages to light up a tree line ~200 meters away better than CREE based Tiablo A9/Spear/DBS etc. when it's really dark, in a semi lit city surrounding the spot from a CREE thrower is more visible. It's just another type of beam with the P7, floodier with a bright centre rather than a small thrower spot and dimmer spill as from the CREE throwers. It throws well, just differently.


have to agree Stefan - I have one of these http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12271 (and it is driven not to bad ether) they are really good up to about 100 ish meters - a smooth hot spot and the rest a wall of light - the throwers give you a bit of a false sense of power as they only make a little pointy spot - which i find great for the wow! look how far this thing goes and for spotting things - but for general light for say walking the dog i find it a bit of a strane on the eyes because its like following the bouncing ball (with a pointy beam & no real spill) looking at anything closer than 50 meters - for me not one torch does it all - you need a few diferant ones (well thats what a torch nut has to say to justifly to the non believer)


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## eyeeatingfish (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



MattK said:


> No - I've got numerous samples and prototypes of P7 based lights and they will never throw light like a single die light - even with fairly huge/deep reflectors. The only way a P7 will ever throw is with a considerable optic (collimator) which will kill the spill - and likely be quite ringy.



I would be interested in such a thing.


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## lightforce2 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Next question to Matt:thinking:, 
What amperage is this new thrower being driven at??


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## Slorg (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

+1 on that! 

Who cares about a ringy light if you can light up the moon with it? :naughty::nana:



eyeeatingfish said:


> I would be interested in such a thing.


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## tx101 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I say, if Matt refuses to tell us NOW !!!
we boycott the light ..... refuse to buy it


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## djblank87 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Come on MattK, think of it this way, at least you can get a pre-order list started ...........:twothumbs


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Guys you are off track here,you cannot compare P7 with Q5.
The P7 will not punch light down alley ways like the Q5,trust me on that.
also the DBS was designed with that in mind"throw down alley ways"which it has done very, very well IMO.
It was not desighned for over spill :laughing:
but still has a decent amount of spill IMO.
Yes it is laser like in it's abillity to throw a spot of light some 1200 feet,
well I for one quite like it


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## KDOG3 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Ok Now I'M hooked on this thread. Is it a domestic manufacturer or foreign?


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## shomie911 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Stop releasing new lights! My wallet is being murdered. :laughing:


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



shomie911 said:


> Stop releasing new lights! My wallet is being murdered. :laughing:


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## shomie911 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



TITAN1833 said:


>



The M20 just came out and now what do I see? ANOTHER LIGHT!

:mecry:

I'm going to go hide my wallet and forget where it is, keep it safe from me.


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## PhilV (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

This is easy.. the major contender for throw was the Raidfire spear...

They're "discontinuing" the model.. "due to high production costs" as I recall.. correct me if I'm wrong.

It hit me last night as I was falling asleep.. perfect setup for a new, refined, improved Raidfire.. the Javelin!

I expect the same workmanship and materials, I'm betting they adjust the price to make up the margin x.x .. but, with a new king of throw, they can do that.


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## bondr006 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Only problem with that Phil is that Matt doesn't sell Raidfire or Nitecore lights. :shrug:



PhilV said:


> This is easy.. the major contender for throw was the Raidfire spear...
> 
> They're "discontinuing" the model.. "due to high production costs" as I recall.. correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> ...


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

wait the raidfire spear hmm :thinking: sold that one already,kept my DBS though :twothumbs 
Work that one out :laughing:


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## qip (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

well if you check the cree store section of batteryjunction ,you have O-light Lumapower and Tiablo ...Fenix might throw its hat into the ring and make a dedicated throw light but we probably would have heard something....O-light just released the M20 so maybe they have a new dedicated thrower coming too , Tiablo been quiet and matts store is empty except for ma6 so maybe a new Tiablo is coming, Lumapower also out of stock of their throw like tiablo and have been releasing new lights like O-light in mvp and p7 modules for other lights 



so it could be any of those companies but it could be a brand new company he has a deal with 


anyhow if its a Tiablo Lumapower or O-light making a new thrower ....any one of these companies can certainly put out a quality throw light that might match or be better than a dbs, 

as for q5-r2 from reviews i see the spear as a throw king but its 18650 the dbs is king at 123 but the reviews show its R2 dbs quickly drops to q4 levels, so really having a dbs Q5 might be better 
, so really i worry on the circuit as the emitter can be easily swapped in the future when r2 are more available or even r4 , oh yes the r4 when will that come


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## MattK (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

It's a .....

Oh sorry the phone is ringing - have to go!


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## RGB_LED (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

...just like my ex-gf... such a tease!  But, unlike my ex-gf, I'm still waiting... 

I don't have a true thrower in my collection so I'm interested... Any more news?


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> It's a .....
> 
> Oh sorry the phone is ringing - have to go!


Yeah it's me,what is it?


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## 22hornet (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I guess the light in question must be a Tiablo. There are no longer A9 or A8 models in stock, so I guess Matt was awaiting some new model...

Am I right ??:naughty:

Kind regards,
Joris


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## bondr006 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Unless it is upgradeable/future proof like my DBS V2, I will prolly have a hard time getting interested in it. With what good lights cost, being able to upgrade is very important to me. It will be a definite deal breaker for me without this ability.


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## IcantC (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

That was me calling, thanks for the info Matt! As promised I won't share until light is released .


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## qip (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



IcantC said:


> That was me calling, thanks for the info Matt! As promised I won't share until light is released .




expect a million calls to batteryjunction and a million PM's to IcantC  ..the hunters will get the info out of you guys now


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## StefanFS (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



TITAN1833 said:


> Guys you are off track here,you cannot compare P7 with Q5.
> The P7 will not punch light down alley ways like the Q5,trust me on that.
> also the DBS was designed with that in mind"throw down alley ways"which it has done very, very well IMO.
> It was not desighned for over spill :laughing:
> ...


 
I like my CREE throwers, but you are wrong. The P7 lights don't punch, they flood, and they are good at it. Sometimes as good as the better CREE throwers even at distance. Is this whole forum now a playground for marketing ploys? That aside, I'm also starved for new groundbreaking products...
Stefan


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## ergotelis (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Why Mattk is not telling about the new model? Is there any specific reason? Or just a marketing trick? If so, then the topic should go somewhere else, am i right?


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



StefanFS said:


> I like my CREE throwers, but you are wrong. The P7 lights don't punch, they flood, and they are good at it. Sometimes as good as the better CREE throwers even at distance. Is this whole forum now a playground for marketing ploys? That aside, I'm also starved for new groundbreaking products...
> Stefan


If you read my post :thinking: did I say P7 lights punch ?

[edited] picture of the new thrower,enjoy :laughing:


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## MattK (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

The new light will be upgradeable. 

Not a marketing trick or ploy at all - this started when I simply tried to let Ctrain know that there was a new throw toy coming shortly.


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## shomie911 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> The new light will be upgradeable.
> 
> Not a marketing trick or ploy at all - this started when I simply tried to let Ctrain know that there was a new throw toy coming shortly.



Don't listen to him! :laughing:

He knows that we're like little puppies and he's dangling treats in front of us. 

Seriously though, I'm glad that a business actually communicates this much, it's not a marketing ploy.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> The new light will be upgradeable.
> 
> Not a marketing trick or ploy at all - this started when I simply tried to let Ctrain know that there was a new throw toy coming shortly.


Well you could give us just a hint :twothumbs


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

i'll leave it here,
let the throw wars begin lol.


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## Black Rose (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



TITAN1833 said:


> Well you could give us just a hint :twothumbs


He did....it'll have a Cree Q5


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## TDKKP (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I have an idea how to make MattK to release the info:

POLL: BOYCOTT Matt and batteryjunction if he doesn't want to release the info of the new thower *NOW*. 


- 1


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Black Rose said:


> He did....it'll have a Cree Q5


good will it have a very, very deep reflector like 40mm deepx40mm dia smo:devil:


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



TDKKP said:


> I have an idea how to make MattK to release the info:
> 
> POLL: BOYCOTT Matt and batteryjunction if he doesn't want to release the info of the new thower *NOW*.
> 
> ...


:thumbsup:


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## Ctrain (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

must...not... proceed... to... checkout... with... dbs... must... wait... for... Matt's... announcement... :sick2:


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## eyeeatingfish (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



StefanFS said:


> I like my CREE throwers, but you are wrong. The P7 lights don't punch, they flood, and they are good at it. Sometimes as good as the better CREE throwers even at distance. Is this whole forum now a playground for marketing ploys? That aside, I'm also starved for new groundbreaking products...
> Stefan



Never say never. Im sure some optic or some reflector could turn the Q5 into a thrower. I dont know much about reflectors to guess how it would be done though.


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## DArklite (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I ordered a DBS v2 last week, and got a response a few days later from Alan, saying he was holding off to ship it with the new updated 3SD pill. I got my shipping notification this morning :thumbsup:
I went with the WC Q5, SMO & OP reflectors and a spare lens.
As an aside, I have the 5A Q2 in my CL1H v3 with SMO & OP reflectors (previous 3SD); nice mellow tint, but for max throw I decided on the WC Q5 in the DBS.


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## Glenn7 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Matt I think even if you gave us a manufacturer's name it might stave off the wolves for the time being - I know of at least 4 people (and myself) waiting to pull the trigger on the DBS - would it not make business sense to at least say something to keep us from spending our $ some were else???  - because if I buy the DBS I will not need to buy anything more.
thanks


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## Ctrain (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Glenn7 said:


> Matt I think even if you gave us a manufacturer's name it might stave off the wolves for the time being - I know of at least 4 people (and myself) waiting to pull the trigger on the DBS - would it not make business sense to at least say something to keep us from spending our $ some were else???  - because if I buy the DBS I will not need to buy anything more.
> thanks


 

What he said... A name would help!


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## qip (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

im curious... of the 3 most likely , if it were 

Tiablo 

Lumapower

O-Light

which ones would you be interested in and which would make you not interested


they are all pretty good brand names so maybe you guys know something i dont, what are expectations of each , pros cons etc


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## eyeeatingfish (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Glenn7 said:


> Matt I think even if you gave us a manufacturer's name it might stave off the wolves for the time being - I know of at least 4 people (and myself) waiting to pull the trigger on the DBS - would it not make business sense to at least say something to keep us from spending our $ some were else???  - because if I buy the DBS I will not need to buy anything more.
> thanks



Ahh, now it goes the other way... a bluff perhaps?


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## Glenn7 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



qip said:


> im curious... of the 3 most likely , if it were
> 
> Tiablo
> 
> ...



Well if one of the three manufacturers you mentioned above were "it" I would be happy to wait - going on other people's word as of their quality - as I have not owned any of the three brands you mentioned personally. 
Ctrain who asked in the first post - was going to buy the DBS then after having second thoughts - has to make a choice from reviews & opinion's - I don't think every single product a manufacturer brings out (just by their past reputation) is worth jumping at.
Well now this is only my opinion of course so dont shoot me down but unless the the new flashlight has a new pysics beating smaller reflector (like the raidfire spear that still didnt beat the DBS in throw) making the whole thing smaller to make it more appealing for EDC (then buy the Olight M20) - more water proof than the others - better/smarter switching & knowing that it will be a Q5 that will be used the reflector will have to be bigger and or deeper to make the hot spot smaller for more throw - unless they are going to use optics as well or instead of a big reflector - I cannot see that it will be so amazing that we will have to have it.
Just some thoughts to you questions :wave:
PS: I suppose its all down to your needs/wants - another thought is for self defence if you got hit with a spear or a DBS you wouldent get up as fast as a smaller light  maybe the new one will be bigger again more like a base ball batt


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## Glenn7 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

one thing i will say Matt - you are a shrewd business man  - get everyone interested - keeping the posts coming in making the thread a pseudo sticky thread staying at the top of the LED's forum so everyone can see (and getting under the market place thread radar ) exponentially increasing customers by baiting flashaholic's with cool new toys - good on you - hats off


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## qip (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

hes evil :devil::laughing:


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## Ctrain (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

At least it's not as bad as surefire telling us about the Optimus and Inctivus... :scowl:


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## woodrow (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Maybe they took the reflector from the Streamlight HID lightbox....and put it on the Supertac's body.....put a Q5 in it....driven at 1.5A...and you have the new UltraTac....no edc holster availible yet.... but they are working on it.

And you thought the Supertac looked like a Salvation Army bell.


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## PhilV (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



bondr006 said:


> Only problem with that Phil is that Matt doesn't sell Raidfire or Nitecore lights. :shrug:



[HomerSimpson] D'oh!! [/HomerSimpson]

Good call. I just assumed Matt carried all the good things to be had


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## Ctrain (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Speaking of Matt... someones quiet today!


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## Glenn7 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



woodrow said:


> Maybe they took the reflector from the Streamlight HID lightbox....and put it on the Supertac's body.....put a Q5 in it....driven at 1.5A...and you have the new UltraTac....no edc holster availible yet.... but they are working on it.
> 
> And you thought the Supertac looked like a Salvation Army bell.


You donkey!!


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## StefanFS (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



TITAN1833 said:


> If you read my post :thinking: did I say P7 lights punch ?
> 
> [edited] picture of the new thrower,enjoy :laughing:


 
Please read my post more carefully. I'm agreeing with you that P7 lights DON'T punch, but I'm also saying that they _*throw*_ light in a different way. Nice and civil. 

On the new topic I believe it might be a new brand popping up since the established brands are tied up with quite a few new products, unless Tiablo makes a comeback. I'm not an expert on Chinese flashlight manufacturing, but I've come to believe that there's only a few people working with thrower designs, and that they then sell these to the 'brands'. One example is the various throwers from LumaPower and Tiablo that share not only the basic design, but also various components. Another example is the Regalight WT-1 that shares the exact same driver with the Tiablo A9 model.

It would be a bit of fresh air if a new brand shows up with some exciting new designs and ideas. The market has been stagnant for a while with ever more variations of the same designs, I don't *need* more lights that do the same thing (within a few percent) as my existing throwers or edc lights already do. And I like to have many lights... I' sure lots of people disagree with this but that's my view of it.

/Stefan


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## Imothep (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Still waiting... :duh2:


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## tsask (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I too am "chomping at the bit!"


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## ukmike (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

We are all waiting. Getting frustrated at not knowing and excited in anticipation:candle:


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## Helmut.G (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Ctrain said:


> Speaking of Matt... someones quiet today!


it's the calm before the storm


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## eyeeatingfish (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Maybe its an MRV type light except with an optic. I havent seen a good mass produced optic based Q5 yet. An optic would be something new and different as long as one of the good chinese companies made it, or better yet American.

On the one thing i dont want to wait any longer to see it, but on the other hand this is distracting me for a week out of the three weeks until the new Inova ights are supposed to be going out.


----------



## MattK (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I have an NDA so I couldn't post details without permission. 

The lights are now in US customs so we should have them on Monday/Tuesday so I'll post some pics/details shortly. 

There's been some super funny posts in this thread!

Thanks for your uhhh patience.


----------



## bullterrier (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*


----------



## ergotelis (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> I have an NDA so I couldn't post details without permission.
> 
> The lights are now in US customs so we should have them on Monday/Tuesday so I'll post some pics/details shortly.
> 
> ...



So it is ok,that is what i was asking for, you are having a NDA.

Is this NDA so strict?You can't tell anything?just some words,the brand the type etc..
Cmon get a permission from the manufacturer and tell us anything!


----------



## djblank87 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

MattK, there is absolutely no way to release the company name?


----------



## eyeeatingfish (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

well we know its a chinese brand or maybe a korean brand, who knows.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



eyeeatingfish said:


> well we know its a chinese brand or maybe a korean brand, who knows.


If were on to guessing brand hmmm (BIGFOOT BRAND) seen,but not seen if you know what I mean :laughing:


----------



## Gunner12 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I'm looking forward to reviews of the light Matt.

Do you still have a Tiablo A8/A9 to compare the light to? I don't have one but that might be a good light to compare the throw to.

Thanks!


----------



## IcantC (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Sweet Mondi or Tuesdi! Can't wait to see what it is.


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## cheetokhan (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Geez! I don't particularly like throw lights, and I already have a couple of them that I never use, but I still can't wait to see what Matt's got cooking here :huh:


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## MattK (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

*One day two flashlights went for a walk in the woods. 

Their names were MRV and MVP of the LumaPower clan.

(cue Al Green music) 

Soon thereafter a child was born.

We call it the MRV SK.

*
--------------------------------


Yes, we'll release all the specs you'll be clamoring for shortly - basically this light builds upon the original MRV and adds a larger, deeper recalibrated reflector and switching/light engine (efficiency) as found on the MVP (if you don't know how well designed the light engine on the MVP is go read the review in uh reviews by selfbuilt)

The only carry-over items are the battery tube, switch body and bezel - everything else is all new. 

We'll be posting to Dealers/Manufacturers this weekend for the formal announcement - consider this your sneak peek. 

















*Old MRV Reflector - New MRV SK reflector*


----------



## qip (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

exactly what i pictured


----------



## Helmut.G (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

what's the button-like thing that looks like a switch?


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Will a smooth reflector be an option, since this is _supposed_ to be a *thrower*..........:naughty:

2 switches is interesting too.


----------



## qip (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

sideswitch is for level adjusting i assume


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

lol Matt,fair play,but the best thrower,I think not.:devil:


----------



## AlexGT (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Is that the final design?

AlexGT


----------



## lightcrazed (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

That is one ugly flashlight.


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## tsask (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I'm glad Matt posted the pics! I'm waiting to see if my Tiablo A9 will have some competition.


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## StandardBattery (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Helmut.G said:


> what's the button-like thing that looks like a switch?


That's what LumaPower is calling the 'SideKick', a mode control button separate from the on-off switch.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

That is an idea I can really get behind. 1 for on and off, 1 for mode selection. Sweet


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## NickBose (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Having 2 buttons doing on-off and level adjustment separately, IMHO, is pretty stupid.
2 buttons doing the same set of functions to cater for different types of users would be better - marketing-wise
I don't know why most lights I see now don't have side switch. Just imagine holding a 20+cm long light with a humongous head and having to operate it from the tiny tail, such a ridiculous design and they are still swarming the market. I give up :shrug:


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## cheetokhan (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



NickBose said:


> Having 2 buttons doing on-off and level adjustment separately, IMHO, is pretty stupid.
> 2 buttons doing the same set of functions to cater for different types of users would be better - marketing-wise
> I don't know why most lights I see now don't have side switch. Just imagine holding a 20+cm long light with a humongous head and having to operate it from the tiny tail, such a ridiculous design and they are still swarming the market. I give up :shrug:



Don't give up! Order this bad boy. I just did 
Comes in silver or black.


----------



## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

No, a smooth reflectors won't be an option...both smooth and OP reflectors are included as part of the kit.  
(OP's are a lot easier to take pictures of)

The SideKick switch allows a user - whether outdoorsman, homeowner or tactical - to preset a level of output. No cycling, no half presses hoping to get to the right level, no multiple presses or sequences to remember, instant access to the level that you need, when you need it. When you have a weapon in your other hand and your adrenaline is pumping it's not to easy to screw around trying to select the right level nor does one want to have to click through other levels to get where you need to be. Some might think this is 'stupid' but those who understand why it exists know that it can be the difference between life and death. At about the same size as a SL Stinger (175cm/6.89") the MRV SK hardly qualifies as, 'humongous.'

The previous MRV Q5 was pretty close to the A9 in throw - I expect this will easily out-throw the A9. Remember that the MRV basically created this class of Cree light and others basically took that formula and went deeper - LumaPower just took it to a new level. 

I'm not sure what light you're thinking of TITAN1833 but I'd be curious what production light you would expect to out-throw the MRV SK?


----------



## Glenn7 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Titan1833 means the DBS Matt


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## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I welcome a comparison test


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## mechBgon (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I've been thinking about getting a thrower to serve as a "high-beam" headlight for my commuting bike. I have over 700 lumens now (DiNotte 600L plus Fenix L2D Q5) but it just doesn't have the throw I'd like when I'm going fast (think 35-45mph downhill in the dark). You don't want to plow into a road hazard at that kind of speed. Actually, I hit 57mph+ the other day, but that was in daylight 

The side-mounted mode switch looks like a desirable feature for that type of use. I'll be watching for reviews on this one


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## Glenn7 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> I welcome a comparison test


yes would be interesting - do you or do you have access to one for comparison? - and I just had a thought the new MVR might not be as easy to upgrade tho - duno?


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## qip (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

i think stefan already has this light ... its all gonna depend on the mrv new circuit on how hard its pushed...but look at the mrv using that similar reflector pushing 21000 lux compared to old one...the reflector really does make a huge impact, read paragraph above reflector image


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## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Glenn - Comparisons are performed by members here - it lends more legitimacy. The previous MRV's had 2 upgrades (light engine swap, takes 2 seconds, much like a DBS) offered over the lifespan of the product. I'm sure when there's a legitimate reason to offer an upgrade for the MRV SK one will be offered. LumaPower typically only offers an upgrade when you can get about 20% more output (noticeably brighter to the human eye). The previous generations of MRV's will not be upgradeable to MRV SK spec as the new light isn't just an LED or light engine upgrade; the MRV SK is different from the light engine forward and an upgrade would end up costing nearly as much as a whole new light.

qip - the MRV SK has an all new, deeper, reflector with revised geometry so I'm rather expecting those big lux numbers. Again, except for the front bezel, battery tube and switch body this is an all new light..
Here - check out the difference in the bezels - previos MRV left, MRV SK on right.


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## ah-see (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I'm skeptical that this new MRV would beat the DBS in throw. Does the MRV have LED pills like the DBS? If not, i think the DBS is still the winner here.


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## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I cannot address your skepticism not knowing what you've based it upon.

The MRV, as addressed above, has an upgradeable 'light engine' with integrated electronics and LED section; this is the same thing as a 'pill'.


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## qip (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

if im reading stefans thread right, its late here so my brain hurts his mrv was q2 and with cr123 it was 11600lux but im not sure which generation mrv he has as im seeing 1st and 2nd gen in the other thrower review thread which also has an mrv at 18k lux , well anyway when stefan put that reflector in he got 21000 lux ..thats 10k jump.....now back to that other mrv in the thrower thread that was a q5 and 18klux with the old reflector ,with this new reflector if it jumps 10k thats 28k lux :thumbsup: hopefully ,theoretically ...like i said we gotta wait on what the circuit will do and some reviews


i expect the mrv to match the DBS at least if not edge it out a bit

and as for the reflector i still believe its the same as stefan said the reflector wouldnt fit completely as mrv head is too short but the new mrv head would theoretically make it fit 








or its late and my brain has overloaded


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## qip (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

265 from a Q5 , sounds like its being pushed nice and hard


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## Glenn7 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

You know how to thicken a plot Matt  
It would be interesting to find out the specs as in how many amps are pumped through the LED on high or if it has a boost as well - the DBS pumps 1.2amps into the LED on high so its not just the reflector as a factor in throw - also I have no way of knowing if Dereelight will bring out a totally new thrower making the old one obsolete but it must make the "old" MVR owners a bit enjoyed having a light so close yet so far :shrug: I only hope lumapower gives the old MVR owners engine (or pill?) upgrades as you said for lifetime coz it would be sad if they sit in the trophy cuboard getting dusty.
I like the idea of buttons on the side - pitty they couldnt put the two side by side - I have always found the button on the end cap just a little bit enoying because you have to hold the light like you are stabbing something - also having the light source up near your eyes (looking down the beam) the light makes it more glary stopping you seeing as far - holding the your flashlight thumb closest to the head at belly button height makes it easyer to see IMO.


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## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

The pic in Stefan's writeup is the original gen 1 MRV (shiny silver light engine marks it) which IIRC was originally a P4 and eventually a Q2. The MRV was eventually supplanted by the MRV Digital which was a Q2 with a special edition Q5 also available and now by the SK which has a Q5 as standard.

MRV Iterations:
MRV: P4 and Q2. Shiny light engine. Light gray HA finish. 2 Levels output.Forward clicky optional. Included 1 reflector. 210L
MRV SE: Q5 with matte finish light engine and Black HA. 2 Levels output.Forward clicky optional. Included both reflectors. 250L


MRV Digital: Q2, gray light engine. Black HA. 3 levels + lighthouse mode. Forward clicky optional. Included both reflectors. 220L
MRV Digital SE: Q5, gray light engine. Black HA. 3 levels + lighthouse mode. Forward clicky standard. Included both reflectors. 265L

MRV SK: Q5 with matte finish light engine, Black HA. 3 Levels output. SideKick Switch, Revised reflector geometry, constant current regulation circuit, forward clicky standard. Included both reflectors. 280L


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## qip (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

matt you devilish child LOL ...you got me up here at 2am reading fine print :laughing:

is it in stock , it seems so:thinking:

[FONT=arial, helvetica]Cree XRE-7090 Q5 WD LED driven at 1.2A/4.25W 





[/FONT]


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## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

heh - I'm up too! 

They should be by the time we're back in the office Monday...or Tuesday latest - they hit US customs Thursday afternoon.

Detailed Results:
Inbound Into Customs 
Inbound International Arrival, September 04, 2008, 1:50 pm, ISC NEW YORK NY(USPS)


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## eyeeatingfish (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I was right about it being an MRV! Do i get a prize?

So you wont sell the head and light engine seperately to add onto my old MRV?

Does it have to have 2x18650 to reach full brightness? I had my MRV for a while and never knew that it wasnt at full brightness based off only one 18650.

Will the larger reflector cut the flood at all. A better thrower would be really nice, but for my police duty i really do need the flood too. My current MRV does ok on the flood.


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## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



If the light engine is compatible there's a possibility of an 'engine only' upgrade but there is unlikely to be an 'everything but the tailcap and battery tube' upgrade IMO - the cost would be almost as much as a whole new light.

I can't answer the other stuff yet authoritatively but I suspect it's brightest on 2XCR132A/2XRCR123A or 2X18650 with slightly less output on 1x18650. I would guess that it must have a bit less flood with the deeper reflector.


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## StefanFS (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Glenn7 said:


> You know how to thicken a plot Matt
> It would be interesting to find out the specs as in how many amps are pumped through the LED on high or if it has a boost as well - the DBS pumps 1.2amps into the LED on high so its not just the reflector as a factor in throw - also I have no way of knowing if Dereelight will bring out a totally new thrower making the old one obsolete but it must make the "old" MVR owners a bit enjoyed having a light so close yet so far :shrug: I only hope lumapower gives the old MVR owners engine (or pill?) upgrades as you said for lifetime coz it would be sad if they sit in the trophy cuboard getting dusty.
> I like the idea of buttons on the side - pitty they couldnt put the two side by side - I have always found the button on the end cap just a little bit enoying because you have to hold the light like you are stabbing something - also having the light source up near your eyes (looking down the beam) the light makes it more glary stopping you seeing as far - holding the your flashlight thumb closest to the head at belly button height makes it easyer to see IMO.


 
You can quite easily change the old driver in your 'old' MRV for something better and that will make it possible for way over 20 000 lux in throw for those who like more output.

Here I have one tuned to 1.2A with flatline output for 90 minutes.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2355755&postcount=226

Since then I have put a newer version (blue) of that driver in it that can be ramped up to ~1.4A. At ~1.4 A throw with a smooth reflector will be between 22 000 and 24 000 lux with a Q5, this will of course shorten the runtime some. The funny thing is that this driver is just as bright with both 18650 and two CR123 primaries, 2 x RCR123 LiION will burn it though. Heatsinking is superb so it's not that much of an issue to overdrive emitters in the MRV package, LumaPower has always been very conservative with drive levels in their stock drivers, and at the same time they have been in the thrower race. In a multimode thrower light it's prudent to have one really high drive level and a more 'normal' medium level for extended use, at least if you want to compete in this category of lights.

/Stefan


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## Glenn7 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



StefanFS said:


> You can quite easily change the old driver in your 'old' MRV for something better and that will make it possible for way over 20 000 lux in throw for those who like more output.
> 
> Here I have one tuned to 1.2A with flatline output for 90 minutes.
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2355755&postcount=226
> ...


Hi Stefan - I don't have a MRV but thank you any way I admire your work here on CPF :thumbsup:
I just sold my DBS V1 to a friend at work and was about to buy another DBS V2 but got side tracked here with this new thrower 
the new MRV's reflector is 36mm deep but the DBS is 45mm - so I am thinking maybe DBS still might throw farther - what are your thoughts - I know throw isnt all you look for in a flashlight Stefan.
Thanks


----------



## Glenn7 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



qip said:


> matt you devilish child LOL ...you got me up here at 2am reading fine print :laughing:
> 
> is it in stock , it seems so:thinking:
> 
> ...


come on qip be a man stay up - you know you are going to miss something good if you sleep :nana:


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## SuperTorch (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I gotta say its not bad looking at all, nice little compact form, Can we hear more about the switch, it sounds interesting if you don't have to cycle through the levels ..how does that work? Could be the tiping point for purchace since its a nice little chunk of change. I like it though, if it really puches a hole in the night.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

OK I just placed my order for the new KING.

I am sure you won't lte me down Matt!:twothumbs


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## StefanFS (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Glenn7 said:


> Hi Stefan - I don't have a MRV but thank you any way I admire your work here on CPF :thumbsup:
> I just sold my DBS V1 to a friend at work and was about to buy another DBS V2 but got side tracked here with this new thrower
> the new MRV's reflector is 36mm deep but the DBS is 45mm - so I am thinking maybe DBS still might throw farther - what are your thoughts - I know throw isnt all you look for in a flashlight Stefan.
> Thanks


 
The DBS has a very special reflector, it's the deepest I have ever seen for CREE emitters. I have some pills with the driver I mentioned above and then I can get my DBS to exceed 35 000 lux in throw. But I can't answer your question, maybe LumaPower has found the perfect geometry so depth doesn't matter that much or something else. If it's just deeper (36mm) and the drive level isn't boosted significantly the DBS V2 might still be better at throwing a small spot a long way.


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## Glenn7 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Stefan did you get my PM?


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## mechBgon (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> heh - I'm up too!
> 
> They should be by the time we're back in the office Monday...or Tuesday latest - they hit US customs Thursday afternoon.
> 
> ...


 
Well, I've gone out on a limb and ordered one  Thanks for the info MattK


----------



## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Thanks guys. 

Maybe we should move the bulk of this conversation to the Dealers forum or Mfrs forum now now that the light is released?

Dealer's thread: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2199050#post2199050

Manufacturers thread: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=183132


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## Thujone (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



MattK said:


> Q5
> 
> Don't you find it a bit odd that no named, respected, volume builder has offered an R2 light until Olight did?



Eh... Lumapower LF5xt


----------



## MattK (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*

You mean Liteflux? I could be wrong but I don't think that's a volume line.


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## The Sun (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



MattK said:


> Might be less than a week....


 

is it a wolf eyes?:twothumbs


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



The Sun said:


> is it a wolf eyes?:twothumbs


err no! it is a MRV SK


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## saabluster (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



StefanFS said:


> maybe LumaPower has found the perfect geometry so depth doesn't matter that much or something else.



I don't think Lumapower found some magic geometry that no one else knows about. The only way they could beat the DBS reflector with a smaller reflector is if they improved the reflective surface itself. There is definitely room for improvement in that area for every reflector I have ever seen.


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## IcantC (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Well someone post up a review when you get a chance. Would like to see how it compares to DBS. I remember when Raidfire came out, they claimed to throw better than DBS as well.

Either way looks like a nice light.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Both are great lights,the DBS has been put through it's paces many times before.
but my concern before I splash out is this, both are approx 225 lumens on 1x18650.The DBS has a deeper reflector(no argument there) both approx 1.2 amps.
even if you put 2x18650 in the MRV SK with a shallow reflector,my money is on the DBS.
Sure we need a new thrower and it's great that the competition has realised this,
I think we need Selfbuilt to do a review on this  IMHO
"What say you selfbuilt" :twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs


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## Thujone (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the "New" thrower to be released*



MattK said:


> You mean Liteflux? I could be wrong but I don't think that's a volume line.



I did indeed mean liteflux, sorry. I am not sure what sales volume you have to have to consider it a 'volume line' but there are quite a few of them floating around...


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## Kerch (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I like the look of the Sidekick, but I think I'll stick to my cheap DX lights until I need a flashlight for serious use.


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## Mostlarge (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> They should be by the time we're back in the office Monday...or Tuesday latest - they hit US customs Thursday afternoon.



It's Tuesday...Any update on their arrival or when they'll ship?


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## mechBgon (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Mostlarge said:


> It's Tuesday...Any update on their arrival or when they'll ship?


 
+1 on that  Want... new... toys!


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Kerch said:


> I think I'll stick to my cheap DX lights


Don't tell me they have a contender


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## artec540 (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Ctrain said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Been researchin' all day... I want a really good thrower and was just about set on the DBS but have looked into it more and now I'm confused...
> DBS, MRV, Tiablo, Spear
> ...



I've got a Tiablo A9 and a Spear. You can run the Spear on A 123s or RCR 123s or 18650s. Personally, I like the Tiablo better than the Spear because it's smaller, lighter, neater in appearance and has a tighter pattern. I think it has better throw, too, though there's not much in it. The Tiablo has two settings into the bargain.
I've got a DBS on order but it's not here yet and I know its bigger than either the Tiablo or the Spear. I've never seen either the DBS or the MRV so I'm not at all qualified on either.
A couple of members whose opinions I respect are not polite about the Spear and personally I like the Tiablo the better of the two.
I don't know about upgradeable but I believe the DBS is better at that than either of my two.
If I haven't increased your confusion, I'll have to try harder!


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## artec540 (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Ctrain said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> Been researchin' all day... I want a really good thrower and was just about set on the DBS but have looked into it more and now I'm confused...
> DBS, MRV, Tiablo, Spear
> ...




I've got a Tiablo A9 and a Spear. Of the two, I like the Tiablo better.......it's smaller, lighter and a less fussy design externally. I think the Tiablo has more throw and it has the advantage of having two levels.

I've never seen a DBS or an MRV, though I have a DBS on order. The DBS is bigger, which, to me, is a disadvantage, but it can take a lot of different pills, which may be an advantage, depending on whether you want to chop and change. And certainly Alan, at Dereelight couldn't be any more helpful and patient. 

Some-one whose opinion I respect a lot recommended the DBS and didn't have all that high an opinion of the Spear. And it appears that Battery Junction is threatening to have something new and wonderful in the way of throw in a week or less, so it might be worth waiting at least that long.

After reading all the posts on this topic, and this is by no means the only thread, I'm still confused! I think the fact of the matter is that you can't tell until you have held them all in your hands and tried them all out for yourself. Too many subjective components. How important each one is varies from person to person, but it's always worth reading what everyone has to say because some-one may easily come up with an aspect one had not considered.

If you aren't still thoroughly confused, we shall all have to try harder!

Whichever you choose, whether it's one or two or more, I hope you enjoy it/them!


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## artec540 (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



MattK said:


> I'll say this - if I ever do another countdown promotion I'm going to find a countdown clock I can adjust to match CPF time.
> 
> It's not Coast - it's a reflector light.



Is it the Dereelight C2?


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## MattK (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*

The good news:
The MRV SK's arrived on time yesterday. 

The bad news:
As storms rolled through the northeast we lost power from like 1:30 PM onward - we finally gave up and left. Power did come back up some time after 6:30 PM 'cause we're up today.

Upshot:
-Lights will ship today.
-My desk is cleaner and more organized than it has been in a long time.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



artec540 said:


> Is it the Dereelight C2?


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## Freddy (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

So Matt, if one wanted Lumapower's best thrower, would it be the MVP or the the MRV SK? 

A lot of us do not own multi emitter lights. I personally like the idea due to the volume of light but need a light to show my German Shepherd the deer she gets to chase. Sometimes they are up to 100 yards or more away. The Malkoff works great for a piercing beam but the ultimate would be to meet or exceed the Malkoff throw with more spill. More spill = more deer=more fun!

So which lumapower to buy? I still have my M-1T but have outgrown it.


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## Hogokansatsukan (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide...*



MattK said:


> The good news:
> The MRV SK's arrived on time yesterday.
> 
> The bad news:
> ...


 
Matt, I hope you had a good flashlight handy!

I have two Spears and like them a lot. They seem to throw better than my Tiablo A9 or my DBS V2. What I do not like about the spear is that it takes only 18650 batteries. Will be interesting to see the reviews on this new light.


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## MattK (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Freddy - The MVP has great throw but I think the MRV SK will out throw it though the MVP will definitely throw 100 yard AND put more light downfield.

I cannot compare to the Malkoff as I don't have one here but I imagine both will easily outthrow it and the MVP will definitely put more light downfield.

Easy solution: buy both! 

Hogokansatsukan - LOL - yah we actually put out 30-40 lights all over; keychain lights in the bathrooms, big lanterns and HID's in the warehouse and smaller lights all over the offices - it was pretty funny looking but we were able to keep working unlike our neighbors.

Reviews will be coming pretty soon I'm sure!


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## shomie911 (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> Freddy - The MVP has great throw but I think the MRV SK will out throw it though the MVP will definitely throw 100 yard AND put more light downfield.
> 
> I cannot compare to the Malkoff as I don't have one here but I imagine both will easily outthrow it and the MVP will definitely put more light downfield.
> 
> ...



One of the advantages of being a flashlight retailer! :laughing:


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



shomie911 said:


> One of the advantages of being a flashlight retailer! :laughing:


:naughty:


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## fieldops (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I knew I'd find Titan around here somewhere, since a new thrower is out. I just ordered mine today. 

You need to get yours with a nice extension tube so it can sit next to the DBS. Matt's probably wondering.....:thinking:.....how come he hasn't ordered yet?

Well?


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



fieldops said:


> I knew I'd find Titan around here somewhere, since a new thrower is out. I just ordered mine today.
> 
> You need to get yours with a nice extension tube so it can sit next to the DBS. Matt's probably wondering.....:thinking:.....how come he hasn't ordered yet?
> 
> Well?


Waiting for reviews :twothumbs


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## Freddy (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



MattK said:


> Freddy - The MVP has great throw but I think the MRV SK will out throw it though the MVP will definitely throw 100 yard AND put more light downfield.
> 
> I cannot compare to the Malkoff as I don't have one here but I imagine both will easily outthrow it and the MVP will definitely put more light downfield.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks, Matt. Give me a few weeks to buy one. I don't think my wife would agree with your easy solution!


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## MattK (Sep 11, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Just trying to help.


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## artec540 (Sep 11, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

With all this talk of which is the best thrower (and I've been trying to participate in it and learn from it, too) one of the problems seems to be that we are not comparing like with like. You can't expect an EX 10 to compare with a DBS and I don't suggest that anyone does but could we at least categorize by one parameter, say overall length? I want a good thrower but I'm not really interested if the light is a foot long. At least, I might be but I wouldn't be interested in a 12 incher in comparison with a 6 incher.

My Tiablo A 9 and my Spear (160 mm) are directly comparable in size. If another light is 15 mm longer than either, does that take it out of contention or is the difference unimportant?

I'm not pushing for length as the criterion (thought actually it would suit me) but I do think we need to quote at least one parameter so that everyone knows what he's comparing with what.


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## qip (Sep 11, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

im wondering if anyone here bought one who also owns a dbs?


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 11, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



artec540 said:


> With all this talk of which is the best thrower (and I've been trying to participate in it and learn from it, too) one of the problems seems to be that we are not comparing like with like. You can't expect an EX 10 to compare with a DBS and I don't suggest that anyone does but could we at least categorize by one parameter, say overall length? I want a good thrower but I'm not really interested if the light is a foot long. At least, I might be but I wouldn't be interested in a 12 incher in comparison with a 6 incher.
> 
> My Tiablo A 9 and my Spear (160 mm) are directly comparable in size. If another light is 15 mm longer than either, does that take it out of contention or is the difference unimportant?
> 
> I'm not pushing for length as the criterion (thought actually it would suit me) but I do think we need to quote at least one parameter so that everyone knows what he's comparing with what.


Ok I'll help the DBS V1 is 165mm in length and the DBS V2 is 158mm in length,both have a 48mm dia head


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Yo I just got it in.
Smaller than expected.
Bright
Great throw(at noon)
*BROKEN CLICKY SWITCH OUT OF THE BOX!!*
*I am not spending my money sending back part of it either.*

Yep I have a $120 twisty........ AT least the side kick feature works easy.


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## IcantC (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Wow SGT that sucks to hear. I am sure if you contact them, they will send a replacement out?


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## MattK (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Sgt. LED - Please make sure that the switch is full tightened down and if you know how please test for continuity. If tightening fails to resolve the problem shoot customer service an email as we stock spare parts and can send out new switch internals without you having to send your light back.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Yep I tested her out and the problem is an internal mechanical failure. It happens so no big deal. Otherwise the light is fantastic as is your spotless reputation for fixing issues quickly!

:twothumbs


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## artec540 (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Mostlarge said:


> It's Tuesday...Any update on their arrival or when they'll ship?



They're on Battery Junction's website and I ordered one. I just got confirmation of shipping!


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

OK MAtt I just shot the CS guys an E-mail.
Thanks


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## MattK (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Sorry that you had a problem. We'll get the replacement right out!


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## sunspot (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I tried to hold back.


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## chorlton (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Dereelight DBS V2/////////Raidfire Spear :devil:


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

You guys are gonna enjoy the sidekick.

Pretty awesome. This isn't a huge light, I thought it would be alot bigger. Pocketable. Feels very solid and out throws everything I have tried against it. I think I have one that will beat it but it is still charging up.
:naughty:


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## mechBgon (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Sgt. LED said:


> You guys are gonna enjoy the sidekick.
> 
> Pretty awesome. This isn't a huge light, I thought it would be alot bigger. Pocketable. Feels very solid and out throws everything I have tried against it. I think I have one that will beat it but it is still charging up.
> :naughty:


 
I'm hoping mine shows up tomorrow!  *Sgt. LED*, did you get the M65 extender in addition? If so, do you notice the difference in output?


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

 anybody got a LumaPower MRV SideKick _*and*_ a Dereelight DBS Smooth reflector? :candle:


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I did not get the extension. But I did rig it up with 2 18650's anyway. Worked well enough for testing, and a difference was noticed. I could not see it in the spot but the spill was slightly dimmer.

I just need more time with it to know 100%


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## eyeeatingfish (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

What i want to know is if the hotspot is even smaller than the old MRV. I have the old Q2 version and it throws good but the spot is sometimes too small to use. The flood is decent for close work too. I got kind of dissapointed when i compared it to a pelican 7060 because the pelican seemed to out throw the Q2 MRV. Even the new streamlight DS LED out throws my MRV q2 version.


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## Confederate (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I have an MRV Lumapower and a couple of throwers from DX. I've found very little difference between them. They're bright and throw like the ****ens, but I hate the spot. _Out, out, damn spot!_


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## StandardBattery (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

The Pelican 7060 is a very interesting light, I just wish it could use standard 18650 cells. I don't know if anyone has opened that battery-pack yet to see if, when needed, the cell can be easily replaced with an AW 18650. For me personally I would also need it to have multiple levels.

The 7060 is nice because it has a reflector designed for throw, but to also create a near field flood.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Confederate said:


> I have an MRV Lumapower and a couple of throwers from DX. I've found very little difference between them. They're bright and throw like the ****ens, but I hate the spot. _Out, out, damn spot!_


My guess is you would love the MRV with a OP reflector,if it's anything like the DBS.
I swapped out my DBS SMO and used the OP for awhile,it put out the most perfect beam pattern IMO.
I did loose a lot of throw though, again just my opinion
:thinking: I may just get another, for flood only:naughty:


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## Glenn7 (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



TITAN1833 said:


> My guess is you would love the MRV with a OP reflector,if it's anything like the DBS.
> I swapped out my DBS SMO and used the OP for awhile,it put out the most perfect beam pattern IMO.
> I did loose a lot of throw though, again just my opinion
> :thinking: I may just get another, for flood only:naughty:


subliminal message "you must get one" a V2 that is


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Glenn7 said:


> subliminal message "you must get one"


lol Glenn  and you my friend must get a OP reflector,message received :nana:


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## Glenn7 (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



TITAN1833 said:


> lol Glenn  and you my friend must get a OP reflector,message received :nana:


you arm twister you :naughty:


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## LukeA (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



StandardBattery said:


> The Pelican 7060 is a very interesting light, I just wish it could use standard 18650 cells. I don't know if anyone has opened that battery-pack yet to see if, when needed, the cell can be easily replaced with an AW 18650. For me personally I would also need it to have multiple levels.
> 
> The 7060 is nice because it has a reflector designed for throw, but to also create a near field flood.



When the light first came out, I designed a holder that held 18650s and fit the 7060, but there was no interest.


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## TDKKP (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Sgt. LED said:


> Yo I just got it in.
> Smaller than expected.
> Bright
> Great throw(at noon)
> ...



Brand new product but with the side switch broken out of the box? Is LumaPower QC going downhill?

I have other LumaPower products and they're good quality. Thinking about getting this thrower, I don't have any MRV, but I got to hold back to see more inputs. Damn, I hate the feeling when receive a defective light out of the box on a brand new product. Will this side switch last for long? I wonder it's reliable or not?

Sgt. LED, do you have to send the whole light back or just the switch? If only the switch needed is it easy to replace? Any special tool required? I'm no moder here and don't want to work with small things, no solder either.


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## StandardBattery (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



LukeA said:


> When the light first came out, I designed a holder that held 18650s and fit the 7060, but there was no interest.


Interesting! Maybe you were just a bit too early with that. I see the 8060 is out now sporting C cell compatibility. 

There must be a huge number of 7060s in circulation now, I wonder if there might be a little more interest now, or in 6 months. Those original batteries must be getting a little tired. 

With your carrier could you charge the battery in the light with the standard charger?

I still might get a 7060 for a nice emergency light, they are priced so resonably I would think Pizza drivers would be using them at this point.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Hey there.
The sidekick button works just fine, it's the rear one that is broken. I have the feeling the sidekick button is quite robust.

I was smart enough to order from Matt so I didn't have to send anything back at all. Just take a pair of needle nose pliers and twist out the clicky unit, simple. The new part is already on it's way, no charge.

I have also decided to start a thread just for this light instead of the ongoing hi-jacking of this thread. 

Please let's continue this discussion there.


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## Spypro (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

I'm planning to buy a DBS but I can't decide between the R2 DI or R2 3SD. Which one would be the brightest or simply the best ? I saw the excellent review of Selfbuilt and I don't like so much the initial drop of power in the first minutes of the R2 DI.
Throw and power that's what I'm looking for here.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Spypro said:


> I'm planning to buy a DBS but I can't decide between the R2 DI or R2 3SD. Which one would be the brightest or simply the best ? I saw the excellent review of Selfbuilt and I don't like so much the initial drop of power in the first minutes of the R2 DI.
> Throw and power that's what I'm looking for here.


If it's throw and power you need,just get the 1S pill same power as the 3SD but without the mid and low levels.
I like the 3SD just in case I don't need full power,I owned a DI pill but it was not for me.


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## BigTennisBall (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

GET THE led lenser X21 or X7


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

cough!cough the wait is over,and hmm there is no new throw king :devil:

[edit]sorry if I did not make you hold off until the review was out,any ways the sidekick is not that bad a light.


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## Ctrain (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Just ordered the DBS today! and Here tomorrow!


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Ctrain said:


> Just ordered the DBS today! and Here tomorrow!


You saw the light :twothumbs:twothumbs


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## Ctrain (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Technically I'll see it tomorrow! :nana:



TITAN1833 said:


> You saw the light :twothumbs:twothumbs


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Ctrain said:


> Technically I'll see it tomorrow! :nana:


Let us know when it arrives.:twothumbs


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## ah-see (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



ah-see said:


> I'm skeptical that this new MRV would beat the DBS in throw. Does the MRV have LED pills like the DBS? If not, i think the DBS is still the winner here.


DBS is still king just like i had thought. Nice way to hype up the MRV SK


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## Ctrain (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Arrived yesterday safe and sound! WOW what an awesome light! this thing really throws... even with the OP reflector.
The build quality is great... and its a lot smaller than i thought it would be!
Honestly this light is a must have - Its a keeper! I love it!:twothumbs


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*



Ctrain said:


> Arrived yesterday safe and sound! WOW what an awesome light! this thing really throws... even with the OP reflector.
> The build quality is great... and its a lot smaller than i thought it would be!
> Honestly this light is a must have - Its a keeper! I love it!:twothumbs


Ctrain glad you like it


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## jimmy1970 (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Ctrain,
I've just received the same torch (Dereelight DBS v2). I agree to the excellent performance and surprisingly small stature of the torch.

Good price and available in Aus. Received mine within 20 hours of ordering (Sydney to Brisbane)! 

The smooth reflector has the usual cree rings but the OP reflector beam is beautiful (can't check the difference in throw until nightfall!)

This site is very handy indeed for advice (that's three torches I've been forced to purchase so far in 2 weeks!):twothumbs

My D10 should arrive soon! Can't wait.

P.S. Thanks for the help regarding customs - couldn't respond on the last thread as it was closed.

jr.


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## Ctrain (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: I want THROW! help me decide... Waiting for the NEW "KING OF THROWERS" to be rele*

Glad you like yours too! Great light!
And you also love your D10:twothumbs


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