# Fenix P3D-RB100 Rebel Comparison Review



## UnknownVT (Sep 24, 2007)

Courtesy of 4sevens (http://Fenix-Store.com) on loan for this review Fenix Digital P3D RB100 Black Premium 100 

The P3D-RB100 Rebel edition is currently the king of the heap for Fenix handheld LED flashlights - boasting a rated 200 lumens on turbo mode - running on 2x CR123A.

Size -





basically the same size as the fabulous P3D-CE - 
this Rebel 100 edition is distinguished by the marking on the head and the different ribbing. 
Shown also is the little L0D-RB80 - upstart challenger - using 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440.

Heads -




The new P3D Rebel 100 has a reticulated/orange-peel reflector and the LED is noticably smaller than the Cree XR-E. The CE (Cree Edition) is an older one with the smooth reflector - it now also comes with a textured reflector. The L0D-RB80 head shows how small the Rebel LED is. Once again that is not a black surround for the RB100 - it is mirror polished finish - the photo just came out black there.

So is the new P3D-RB100 the brightest light of this group?

vs. Fenix P3Dce both using primary CR123A and on Turbo (max)







according to the specs the RB100 should be 25% brighter than the CE - but these side-by-side comparison beamshots seem to show it closer. The RB100 has a wider beam so covers more area - the -2 Stops underexposed shot seems to favor very slightly the narrower CE. A close call - maybe the RB100 has it because it covers more area?

Might seem silly, but how does the tiny single Fenix L0D-RB80 fair against the big gun? ...well, OK using a 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 10440......

vs. Fenix L0D-RB80 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 on High -







The L0D-RB80 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 does pretty well - but the more concentrated beam of the P3D-RB100 does show its advantage - and the P3D-RB100 hot spot is - well, hotter........

How about a more practical comparison?

Standardized exposure stairs beamshot 
(comparable to my other stairs beamshots) -
P3D-RB100 ..................................................... Fenix L0D-RB80 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440







these shots seem to reflect the comments made in the direct side-by-side beamshots on white paper above. The P3D-RB100 has much more concentrated hotspot and beam - whereas the L0D-RB80 spreads its light out more - to give a spectaular stairs result - outdoors or with less reflective surfaces the P3D-RB100 would definitely show its advanatges. But, hey, the tiny little upstart Fenix L0D-RB80 on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 is definitely a little pocket rocket (just don't use it for long on high, as it gets very warm very quickly).


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## mchlwise (Sep 24, 2007)

Excellent review, as always. 

I'd like to see a runtime chart on the L0DR80. Maybe what... 5 minutes to 50% on the 10440. :green: 

My understanding is that's pretty brutal on the cells also, and if you're not careful they might go


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## WadeF (Sep 24, 2007)

Not sure how you can judge them by the beamshots when the hot spots are over exposed in the -2 under exposed shots. Maybe try -4 under exposed, or a lower exposure.


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## UnknownVT (Sep 24, 2007)

WadeF said:


> Not sure how you can judge them by the beamshots when the hot spots are over exposed in the -2 under exposed shots. Maybe try -4 under exposed, or a lower exposure.


 
Thank you - this is a good point - 
but my beamshots are _*NOT*_ there for quantitative measurements - 
the correct way to measure brightness is to by integrating sphere - 
and even that is open to debate.

I know that someone has tried to take my comparison beamshots and calculated the area and brightness levels - but although it was a sterling effort - that is so open to debate - otherwise - taking a photo would be the easy way to measure brightness - why even use an integrating sphere?

So my side-by-side comparison beamshots are for _visual_ comparison - 
between the full/optimized and the -2 stop underexposed shots they give a pretty good/reasonable idea of how the lights look in real life - shone on white walls.

Like I said in the review - according to the specs there is supposed to be 25% increase in brightness of the RB100 version over the CE - but in real-life it was hard to see this - and those beamshots kind of reflect that situation - that is all I hoped to achieve - a visual comparison - the fact that both the hotspots are still overexposed in the -2 stop underexposed shot - and seems somewhat "equally" overexposed (with maybe the RB100 slightly brighter?) only goes to show that it is hard to see any difference visually....... (see also the -2 Stops beamshot with the L0D-RB80 where the side-spills are comparable but a difference can be seen in the hotspots)


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## UnknownVT (Sep 25, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> according to the specs there is supposed to be 25% increase in brightness of the RB100 version over the CE - but in real-life it was hard to see this


 
Just a thought on this -

the Premium Rebel RB100 uses an obviously textured orange-peel reflector - which diffuses and scatters the light more from the main beam output (ie: in the hotspot and the side-spill) - with possibly some losses? 
- so the light is not going to be as intense as a smooth (non-textured) reflector.

The CR (Cree Edition - an older version) has a smooth reflector.


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## THE OFF (Sep 29, 2007)

Thanks


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## UnknownVT (Mar 13, 2008)

Does the P3D work with 1x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion?

Since the P3D head will fit on the P2D and L1D bodies - this is what I tried -

P3Drb100 head on P2D body (ie: 1x CR123) - 
primary CR123 - light in all modes - but not surprisingly low battery flickering at all levels.
3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 - all levels working - no flickering even on Turbo/Max - ie: works fine - 
I have 3x RCR123's and they all worked fine. 
Current draw Turbo = 0.96A; Lo = 0.03A; Med = 0.13A; Hi = 0.35A.
So _GUESS_timate of runtimes on 750mAh RCR123 - 
Turbo 30 min; Lo 15 hours(?); med = 4 hours; Hi = 1.4 hours.

P3Drb100 head on L1D body (ie: 1x AA) -
Alkaline or NiMH - not surprisingly - no light in any mode.
3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 - light at all levels - but low battery flickering on Turbo/Max - 
I have 2x 14500 UltraFire both behaved this way.
Current draw Turbo/Max (with low batt flicker) 0.61A; Lo = 0.03A; Med = 0.14A; Hi = 0.36A.
So my _GUESS_timate of runtime on these 900mAh 14500 
Turbo = ~1 hour (but flickers); Lo = ~20 hours(?); Med = 4 hours; Hi = 1.7 hours.
_*EDIT to ADD*_ - because I read of others using the low battery flickering on Turbo as an indication to stop using the light and recharge the battery - I recharged both my 14500 - and the light no longer gave the low battery flicker on Turbo - 
the measurements on Turbo -
Current draw = 0.83A (4.13V o-c) - new _GUESS_timate runtime Turbo = 0.7 hour.

I also read that the P3D can run on 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123s -

So I also tried that - 
2x 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 on P3D rb100 -
works fine at all levels - gets warm but not hot in my limited and short run -
Current draws - Turbo/Max = 0.42A; Lo = 0.01A (16.8mA on 200mA scale); med = 0.06A (67 mA on 200mA scale); Hi = 0.17A
_GUESS_timate runtimes on these 2x 800mA RCR123 - turbo = ~1.25 hr; Lo = ~31 hrs; Med = ~8 hrs; Hi = ~3 hrs.

*Another* _*EDIT to ADD*_ - 
just read another post asking about 2x 14500 using a L2D body - so I tried that as well - the P3D-RB100 head on the L2D body with 2x 14500 worked in all modes -
Current draw readings -
Turbo/max = 0.41A; Lo = 0.01A (17.1mA on 200mA scale); Med = 0.05A (63.1mA on 200mA scale); Hi = 0.16A (185mA on 200mA scale)
_GUESS_timate runtimes on 2x 900mAh 14500 turbo = ~1.4 hours; Lo = ~35hours; Med = ~9.4 hours; Hi = ~3.2 hours.

Compare with Primary CR123 -
Current draw - turbo = 0.62A; Lo = 0.01A (17.3 mA on 200mA scale); Med = 0.09mA (99mA on 200mA scale); Hi = 0.24A
_GUESS_timate runtimes - Turbo = ~1.6hrs; Lo = ~57 hrs; Med = ~ 15 hrs; Hi = ~ 4hrs.

P3D-RB100 specs -
General Mode: 11 lumens (65hrs) -> 50 lumens (13hrs) -> 112 lumens (4.8hrs) -> SOS
Turbo Mode: 200 lumens (1.8hrs) -> Strobe


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## UnknownVT (Mar 26, 2008)

I did these comparisons trying to find out if running a P3D on 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion batteries would actually be brighter than the normal 2x primary CR123s - since I do not have 2 P3Ds on hand - I used the recently reviewed (and Hot) Fenix TK10 as a comparison control light 

P3Drb100 on 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 Turbo vs. Fenix TK10 on primary CR123 High/Max - note: the TK10 is on the left.







P3Drb100 on 2x primary CR123 vs. Fenix TK10 on primary CR123 High/Max - note: the TK10 is on the left.







I think these two pairs of comparison photos look about the same - the TK10 is brighter in both sets and I think the P3Drb100 looks about the same in both.

Just to be sure I put the P3Drb100 head on a L2D body and tried 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 -

P3Drb100 head on L2D body using 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 Turbo vs. vs. Fenix TK10 on primary CR123 High/Max - note: the TK10 is on the left.







another set that more or less looks the same as the two sets above - well not that surprising, since it is really just another 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion (only the capacities were different) - but I had to do it check.

So the P3Drb100 with 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion batteries is about the same as on 2x primary CR123 - so compared to the TK10 the beamshots are about the same as the one on the 2x primary CR123s


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## nanotech17 (Mar 27, 2008)

wow!the L2D tailcap can take the current of 2x li-ion?
Amazing.
I wonder how long the tiny spring inside the module will last.


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## ingokl (Mar 27, 2008)

nanotech17 said:


> wow!the L2D tailcap can take the current of 2x li-ion?
> Amazing.
> I wonder how long the tiny spring inside the module will last.


 

Well...with the li-io the current is much smaller than with the original L2D setup (only 0.41A compared to about 1.1 Amp). So the electric power dissipated in the spring is much lower (P=R*i²). The higher the voltage and lower the current (at same power output) the lower the losses in the resistor, in this case the spring.


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## learnyee (Mar 27, 2008)

Will these configuration works with the P3D CD Q5? or the P2D CE Q5?


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## nanotech17 (Mar 27, 2008)

ingokl said:


> Well...with the li-io the current is much smaller than with the original L2D setup (only 0.41A compared to about 1.1 Amp). So the electric power dissipated in the spring is much lower (P=R*i²). The higher the voltage and lower the current (at same power output) the lower the losses in the resistor, in this case the spring.



Thank You man :thumbsup:


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## UnknownVT (Mar 27, 2008)

learnyee said:


> Will these configuration works with the P3D CD Q5? or the P2D CE Q5?


 
The P3D-Q5 should work the same way - as it has basically the same electronic circuitry.

BUT the P2D's will _NOT_ for *2x* Li-Ion, and limited for *1x* Li-Ion - 
do _NOT_ try the 2x Li-Ion configurations - 
that probably will either burn out the LED or circuit.

Explanation - 

P3D series uses 2x CR123 - which is nominally 3+3V = 6V - this is way above the Vf of the LED - this means the circuit is there to drop the voltage level down to the Vf. So having 2x Li-Ion batteries which would be about 7.4V nominally - appears to be in the range of the regulating circuit - that can cope and reduce the voltage down to the Vf.

Whereas the P2D only uses a single CR123 which is nominally 3V - this is BELOW the Vf of most LEDs - so the circuit used in the P2D series has to BOOST the voltage - kind of the opposite to the P3D circuit.

Now the P2D can be run on a _SINGLE _3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion battery - such as 1x RCR123 in the P2D, or 1x 14500 on a L1D body - the nominal 3.7V of the Li-Ion often is higher than the Vf of the LED - so the circuit is by-passed - in effect the LED is in direct drive from the battery on Turbo - all the other lower levels are still there - BUT they show basically the same high brightness. 
So on 2x Li-Ion (or 7.4V) the circuit on the P2D will be by-passed and all of the 7.4V will be directly driving the LED - which may well burn it out.

(Please edit your post to get rid of most of the quote as it is merely repeating all of my post)


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Mar 27, 2008)

One thing puzzles me Vincent...

The spot of TK10 looks VERY sharp edged in your pictures.

I do not see that in my example, it having a smooth edged spot similar to the RB100.

What gives?


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## UnknownVT (Mar 27, 2008)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> The spot of TK10 looks VERY sharp edged in your pictures.
> I do not see that in my example, it having a smooth edged spot similar to the RB100.
> What gives?


 
A lot more beamshots of the TK10 in 

Fenix TK10 Comparison Review

Photos have limited dynamic range - especially when compared to our eyes which can accomodate a lot.

So on the full exposure shots the hotspot is basically grossly over exposed - so does not show any details in and immediately around the hotspot. Now look at the -2 stops underexposed shots - one can see a bit better details around the edge of the hotspots.

The -2 stops underexposed shot is where that Cree dark-halo betrays itself - and I think the reason why the full exposure shot seems to give the TK10 hotspot such a sharp defined outline/cutoff.


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## learnyee (Mar 28, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> The P3D-Q5 should work the same way - as it has basically the same electronic circuitry.
> 
> BUT the P2D's will _NOT_ for *2x* Li-Ion, and limited for *1x* Li-Ion -
> do _NOT_ try the 2x Li-Ion configurations -
> that probably will either burn out the LED or circuit.




Hi UnknownVT, thanks for the explanation. I am so new and fascinated 
with all these flashlight stuffs, so there are few more things to be cleared out:
1. I noticed that in your post you mentioned that:

2x 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 on P3D rb100 -
works fine at all levels - gets warm but not hot in my limited and short run -

Meaning that if I were to on the flashlight with this configuration, it might get too hot and blow the flashlight?

2. I came across with some UltraFire protected rechargable Li-Ion on ebay,namely the 18650 3.7v 2400mAh (17mm x 67mm) and the 17670 3.7v 1800mAh (17mm x 67mm), can I just stuffs one of these in since the dimension of these Li-On is about the same with 2xCR123? What would happen if I can find a body that house these batts and put in 2x18650 or 2x17670 since it gives the voltage of 7.2v? will it caused any problem in long run with these 1x or 2x configuration?

3. Is it interchangeable for the P3D body with P3D CE Q5 and the P3D RB100 head?

Thnks in advanced


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## UnknownVT (Mar 28, 2008)

learnyee said:


> 1.2x 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 on P3D rb100 -
> works fine at all levels - gets warm but not hot in my limited and short run -
> Meaning that if I were to on the flashlight with this configuration, it might get too hot and blow the flashlight?


 
No, perhaps I was not clear it was in Turbo mode on a short run that the flashlight gets warm (but not hot).

However, generally the Turbo mode on Fenix flashlights are driving the LEDs pretty near the limits, and the LED's temperature will rise - enough that Fenix themselves do not recommend running the lights on Turbo for long even on regular primary CR123s -

Please see this crop from their P3D instruction sheet -








learnyee said:


> 2. I came across with some UltraFire protected rechargable Li-Ion on ebay,namely the 18650 3.7v 2400mAh (17mm x 67mm) and the 17670 3.7v 1800mAh (17mm x 67mm), can I just stuffs one of these in since the dimension of these Li-On is about the same with 2xCR123? What would happen if I can find a body that house these batts and put in 2x18650 or 2x17670 since it gives the voltage of 7.2v? will it caused any problem in long run with these 1x or 2x configuration?


 
My tests above seems to show that Li-Ion rechargeable batteries other than physical size and obviously capacity seem to behave the same way in the P3Drb100.

Since the P3Drb100 ran on 1x RCR123 or 2x RCR123;
and 1x 14500 or 2x 14500 -

The P3D should be able to run on 1x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion,
or 2x 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion (of any size or capacity as long as one can find bodies that fit them and the P3D head)

However - note the last paragraph/point in the extract from the P3D instruction sheet - Fenix only recommend using 3V CR123 batteries - so please take that into consideration.



learnyee said:


> 3. Is it interchangeable for the P3D body with P3D CE Q5 and the P3D RB100 head?


 
Yes.


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## dw65 (Mar 28, 2008)

Hi,
I'm new to the forum and interested in this light. I currently use a Surefire Z2 Combat and E2e Elite for shooting in low light/dark. I want a led light with a strobe feature for use also. I want a light that I can set to bright or strobe and operate with a momentary on/off switch (rear cap button). I don't want to have to push a button several times to get to the feature I need and the specs on this light are not clear if I can do this with this light. If this light does not have those abilities, can you suggest an led of this size which does? 

Thank you


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## UnknownVT (Mar 29, 2008)

dw65 said:


> I want a led light with a strobe feature for use also. I want a light that I can set to bright or strobe and operate with a momentary on/off switch (rear cap button). I don't want to have to push a button several times to get to the feature I need and the specs on this light are not clear if I can do this with this light. If this light does not have those abilities, can you suggest an led of this size which does?


 
First welcome to CPF -

Let me describe how the Fenix "D"igital series work, and you can then decide if it is suitable.

On the Fenix P3D - if the head is screwed down fully (ie: tight) then the light is in the Turbo mode. 
with these - 200 lumens (1.8hrs) -> Strobe 

On first switching on the light the light is at Turbo/maximum brightness level. 

The light changes mode by turning Off and back On within 2 seconds
(which is easily achieved with a simple tap of the reverse clicky tail-switch, causing a momentary off) - the next mode is Strobe.

General Mode is when the head is partially unscrewed - 
then it has these -
11 lumens (65hrs) -> 50 lumens (13hrs) -> 112 lumens (4.8hrs) -> SOS 
change is also simply tapping the tail-switch.

Hope that was clear enough, and helps some?


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## dw65 (Mar 29, 2008)

Thank you for the welcome and for your response.

It sounds like the light is designed for constant run conditions, not momentary on/off usage as with the Surefire.


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## UnknownVT (Mar 29, 2008)

dw65 said:


> It sounds like the light is designed for constant run conditions, not momentary on/off usage as with the Surefire.


 
Yes, that's a good description.

The Fenix T1 and TK10 have forward/tactical clickies, so can have momentary On - 
since they only have 2 levels of lighting by twist of the head, so do not change modes by momentary Off.

These are both rated -
Turbo Mode: Constant 225 Lumens, 1.5 hours 
General Mode: Constant 60 Lumens, 10 hours

But neither have a strobe mode.

If it's of any help -

Fenix TK10 Comparison Review 

The TK10 is new and there are also lots of other reviews posted in this section.

Fenix T1 Comparison Review


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## learnyee (Mar 31, 2008)

I saw from the Fenix-Store front page saying that the LumiLed is discontinue all the Rebel production due to some problem. and I happened to order a unit of P3D RB100, am I going to be affected by it???


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## UnknownVT (Mar 31, 2008)

learnyee said:


> I saw from the Fenix-Store front page saying that the LumiLed is discontinue all the Rebel production due to some problem. and I happened to order a unit of P3D RB100, am I going to be affected by it???


 
I think it was good that you bought from the Fenix-Store - 
they have one of the finest reputations here on CPF - as many will attest
- they say the following 

"_For those who have rebels, don't worry - we fully support those products and will resolve any and all problems should any be found. "_

So they have clearly stated they would stand behind any Rebel they have sold. I would trust that.


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## dudu84 (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm really interested in using L2D body with the P3D Q5 head as I think the L2D body looks very nice 

I found out that the L2D body fits 1x trustfire 14500 + 1 AA NimH on the P3D head (2x 14500 are too long to fit). I turned the light on for a second, it worked but I'm too scared to use it yet .

So what I want to ask is:

Is it safe to use 1x protected 14500 and 1x AA NiMH in the L2D body, assuming that my NiMH always has more energy (in term of mAh) than my 14500?

The current draws from the 14500 will be the same as from the AA NimH as they are connected in series, right?

When the voltage on the 14500 is too low, the protection circuit will kick in and that's when the light will shut off by itself, right?

Thanks for reading
DN


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## UnknownVT (Apr 14, 2008)

dudu84 said:


> I found out that the L2D body fits 1x trustfire 14500 + 1 AA NimH on the P3D head (2x 14500 are too long to fit). I turned the light on for a second, it worked but I'm too scared to use it yet .
> Is it safe to use 1x protected 14500 and 1x AA NiMH in the L2D body, assuming that my NiMH always has more energy (in term of mAh) than my 14500?


 
*No*, please *don't* do it - 
this is probably not a very good idea, and possibly dangerous 
- we are always warned not to mix batteries of different types.

I suggest for more definitive answers post your question in the Flashlight Electronics - Batteries Included section where the more experienced battery persons can tell you about the problems, and dangers.

I have 14500's and 2 do fit in the L2D body (UltraFire brand) just get some that do fit, and use a pair of the same brand (matched if possible) - rechargeable Li-Ion are just too dangerous to be mixed with other types of batteries.


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## dudu84 (Apr 15, 2008)

Thanks for your advice and the link, UnknownVT.
Lucky I wait for your reply before testing it any further, it could have gotten ugly 

I have a pair of Ultrafire and a pair of Trustfire 14500, TF cells are slightly shorter but when they are still about 1mm too long for the tailcap to be tightened. Maybe I can try the unprotected cells once I get a multimeter 

DN


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## aesix (Apr 14, 2009)

Can i use 2x RCR123 3.6V battery on my TK10? please help..


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## DM51 (Apr 14, 2009)

Welcome to CPF, aesix.

You just posted a new thread with that question, so please give people time to answer there rather than asking the same question more than once.


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