# headlamp for XC skiing



## jims (Jan 28, 2009)

I have been looking for a better headlamp than the Highbeam k2 I have been using for xc skiing at night. The problem I have with the K2 is that it doesn't have much spill. I am looking for something with more lumens with good throw and spill. The new Remington and PT Apex both sound good as far as price range and power are concerned. For those who own these lights would you feel comfotable using them for xc skiing? Are there other lights for under $75.00 that I should be concidering?

Thanks


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## likeguymontag (Jan 28, 2009)

jims said:


> [...] The new Remington and PT Apex [...]



The Remington has a tight, bright spot, and a reasonable amount of spill, but I suspect you'd want more spill than it offers. (My guess is that you'd probably like to have the spot pointed 50m down the trail and still have some flood at your feet.) With the diffuser in place, the beam is all flood, no spot, and that's not appropriate for your use either. The new 130 lumen PT Apex apparently has a more diffused beam than the previous 60 and 80 lumen versions. I haven't played with either the new or old Apex, so I'm just guessing here, but I bet the beam of the new one is a lot like the beam of the new EOS. If that's true, then it has a hotspot about 2x as wide as the Remington, and somewhat more spill. It will also be a much better engineered and manufactured product than the Remington, (despite the complaints that trickle in on this forum) but unfortunately it's priced accordingly.

As for other options? I would consider the (new, 50 lumen) PT Eos bright enough on high for running on a decent trail. That might mean it's enough for skiing. :shrug:

Other comparable headlamps include the Petzel Myo XP and the new RXP. There's the Black Diamond Icon. The Streamlight Argo and Argo HP look like nice products. I'm sure there are others I'm missing.

One more final thought. Try putting a piece of frosted scotch tape over the lens of your Rayovac / River Rock K2 headlamp. It will reduce output, but definitely give you more spill. Yeah, one more "final" thought. The Remington has loads more spill than the K2. How could it not, when the K2 has no spill at all?


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## gillestugan (Jan 28, 2009)

Why not change the optics in your Highbeam for a wider one? 

If you are a bit handy soldering you can also replace the K2 with a SSC P4, the same optics usually works for both of them. This would double your light output. Here is a thread with pictures from a mod to SSC P4.

Otherwise I too would recommend the petzl RXP

The zebralight has the widest beam, but it's probably too wide. 
A good choice if you want it to be be more exciting to go downhill.


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## hurricane (Jan 28, 2009)

Here's another recommendation for a Petzl Myo XP. However, I would get the Belt model, which allows you to remotely stash the battery pack in a warmer place thus extending run time, also lightens the load on your noggin. I use this light all the time in the backcountry [skiing, climbing and snowshoe running] and it's super bright especially with snow reflectance. It's a great product.


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## MikeyT (Jan 28, 2009)

The I have the Apex PRO - it's lighter weight than the regular AA Apex and the CR123's are better suited to cold weather use. It's a great light.


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## jzmtl (Jan 28, 2009)

I would get apex extreme, the belt pack hold 8x AA and will run forever on 8 rechargeables.


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## jims (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks for the input and ideas. I have tried the tape idea. It helps but I feel I could still use more light. I have thought about modifing but am afraid of over heating. I will check out the lights you guys have suggested.

Thanks again


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 29, 2009)

Try the 2 123A River Rock Cree headlight. It's over 130 lumens, has a textured reflector, and only costs $25. It's available at Target. It only has one level. Normally for my uses, I don't like putting lithium batteries on my head and I like having lower settings for more runtime. However, for your application, you need a cold weather light that takes lithiums anyway and you want something bright. I'd still suggest another multilevel headlight for when you need longer runtime and less brightness. The Rebel PT EOS will work for this. Both headlights combined may cost less than one PT Apex.


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## likeguymontag (Jan 29, 2009)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Try the 2 123A River Rock Cree headlight. It's over 130 lumens, has a textured reflector, and only costs $25. It's available at Target. It only has one level. Normally for my uses, I don't like putting lithium batteries on my head and I like having lower settings for more runtime. However, for your application, you need a cold weather light that takes lithiums anyway and you want something bright. I'd still suggest another multilevel headlight for when you need longer runtime and less brightness. The Rebel PT EOS will work for this. Both headlights combined may cost less than one PT Apex.



How's the beam pattern on the 2 123A River Rock Cree? I would guess it has a tighter spot and more spill than the RR/Rayovac 3xAA K2, but does it have enough for hiking and skiing and such? How does it compare to the beam of the EOS?


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## Hooked on Fenix (Jan 29, 2009)

It has a textured reflector so I'd assume that the beam is at least somewhat floody. I don't actually own one so I don't want to speculate more than that. It claims to be 136 lumens (may be a little less out the front). I have seen some Targets where these headlights were marked down to $21 or $22. Reviews of it show that it's not really waterproof. This shouldn't be a problem for cross country skiing as all the water is frozen. It has only a high level so it's of no use to me. However, for cross country skiing, it should be fine.


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## yowzer (Jan 29, 2009)

likeguymontag said:


> Other comparable headlamps include the Petzel Myo XP and the new RXP. There's the Black Diamond Icon. The Streamlight Argo and Argo HP look like nice products. I'm sure there are others I'm missing.



The Icon is a nice light, but its cree is all about throw. Not a huge amount of spill to it. If only you could run the cree and the 5mms at the same time. I'm only aware of one combo headlamp that does this; I wish more did instead of forcing one type or the other.


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## holm0299 (Jan 29, 2009)

I've got the PT Apex 130 and Streamlight Argo HP C4 and I love both. The PT Has an amazing amount of light from both the 5mm and the 3w. The 3w has surprisingly less throw that I expected. It's like having a sort of focused all-throw light if that makes any sense. The Argo runs on two lithium cells and is regulated for 5 hours of constant brightness. It throws really far and quite a nice spill beam on high. It's hard not to recommend either of these.


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## NoFair (Jan 31, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> I would get apex extreme, the belt pack hold 8x AA and will run forever on 8 rechargeables.


 
+1 on this. 

The Apex is great for skiing, been using mine for years:thumbsup:

Having the batteries inside your clothes negates any negative effects of the cold and gives great runtimes on NiMHs. 

Sverre


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## hopkins (Feb 3, 2009)

here's a short clip of people out cross country skiing at night with headlamps.
One person has no headlamp and is being led by another,and giving her warnings of upcoming terrain. 

Another has a very weak lamp while the majority of the group seem to
have nice pools of light in front of their tips. The ultimate mine is bigger than yours demonstration.

Headlamp skiing.

http://video.google.com/videosearch...ng with headlamps&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#


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## Hooked on Fenix (Feb 3, 2009)

Just got the River Rock 6 volt 136 lumen Cree headlight. It was marked down to $15 at my local Poway, CA Target. I couldn't resist at that price. I bought two. The batteries it comes with cost $10 in the store alone. Anyways, here are my first impressions. It is definitely well over 100 lumens. It's noticably brighter than my Fenix L2D Q5 on high (not turbo). The beam is nice. It has a large hotspot that transitions nicely into the spill. Beyond this transition, the spill is pretty even for brightness. Does seem like it would be a thrower, but spill light is not lacking and I think it would be just right for something like bike riding. For cross country skiing, it would be good if you're going fast, but it may reflect off the snow and blind you at close range traveling slow on level ground. For cross country skiing, I would suggest a dimmer, multilevel headlight to give lower level light when needed to complement this light. Maybe something like a Rebel PT EOS headlight. The top strap was too short and caused the light to slide off my head. I removed it and since it's only 4 oz. with the top strap, it's not too heavy to be able to go without it. Off the top of my head, I can't think of another headlight that is this lightweight and this bright. It would be infinitely more useful if it had a low setting or two. Runtime isn't bad if the advertised time is true. It claims 4 hours of bright light and two hours of diminishing light after that. I may use it during the times I would otherwise reach for an Inova T1.


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## Wicho (Feb 4, 2009)

I've gone to a Dinotte 400L with a headstrap you can buy from them. Run it with the 2C Li-ion battery. 2.5 hous of 400 lumens, or 5 hours at half brightness. Interchangeable lenses for spot, medium flood or flood. Two LED's, and each can have a different lens. The battery mounts to the headband, but you can get an extension cord to keep the battery next to your body.

Pricey, but worth it. You could also look at Ay-ups.


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## yowzer (Feb 5, 2009)

Wicho said:


> I've gone to a Dinotte 400L with a headstrap you can buy from them. Run it with the 2C Li-ion battery. 2.5 hous of 400 lumens, or 5 hours at half brightness. Interchangeable lenses for spot, medium flood or flood. Two LED's, and each can have a different lens. The battery mounts to the headband, but you can get an extension cord to keep the battery next to your body.
> 
> Pricey, but worth it. You could also look at Ay-ups.



I know someone who has one of those. It's like having a car's high beams on your head!


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## zemmo (Feb 15, 2009)

Boy, the headlamp world has changed completely over the last couple of decades. When I started running dogs and ski-joring in the late 80's, everyone (in Alaska, at least) used an incandescent emitter and 4 alkaline D cells in a remote pack that could be kept inside clothes to stay warm. Those that could afford it (I think Susan Butcher said she used over $1000 worth of batteries in the Iditarod) started using lithium D cells with the appropriate bulb. These were quite bright! Now, of course, everyone is using led emitters, and battery use has dropped dramatically in distance racing. And it really sucked when a bulb burned out at 40 below, a huge improvement for leds...

As far as a headlamp for x-c skiing, it would depend somewhat on the trails you use, how fast and how tight, as well as how well you ski. Extreme throw is not needed, but at least enough to see a moose on the trail in time to stop is mandatory, at least where the moose are. And it's fun to see animals far ahead, I've seen foxes, wolves, coyotes, porcupines, and smaller varmints. For me, something like the PT Eos (old 25 lumen model) doesn't have quite enough throw, haven't had a chance to try the new model. The Apex is good. If it has enough throw, the Surefire Saint, when it comes out, might be a good fit. (Update: I got a SF Minimus, not enough throw, IMO) I'd like to try a Myo RXP, as well. I'm not in Alaska anymore, so don't care so much about cold weather performance. Li CR123's should be fine in normal winter temperatures, even if outside of clothing. All in all, the PT Apex Pro is about right for my current use, using RCRs. I think the lighter 3 watt set ups (Apex Pro, Myo RXP, BD Icon) are about perfect for skiing, and light enough to be comfortable on your head.


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## hopkins (Feb 15, 2009)

A recent x-ski trip to Yosemite where I tried to pick a long route so we'd
need our Myo Xp's on the final leg, but conditions were too fast.

We ate dinner at Curry Village and were walking back to camp after dark when we heard excited screeching by 2 tourists. Our Myo Xp headlamps showed 2 
Japanese girls without any lights trying to hold off a hungry raccoon from getting their grocery bag while they tried to unlock the padlock on a tent cabin.

Without a light they were at the wrong tent cabin and their key would not work.
We helped out. The raccoon crunched away in the frozen slush complaining loudly.


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## lys_og_varme (Feb 18, 2009)

Light & Motion Stella 200.
5hrs runtime, good wide output. 

Don`t need much light in snow, as it reflects all over the place.


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## pipspeak (Feb 20, 2009)

hopkins said:


> Without a light they were at the wrong tent cabin and their key would not work.
> We helped out. The raccoon crunched away in the frozen slush complaining loudly.


 
 Gotta love some tourists... recently came across a bus load of Japanese tourists near the Grand Canyon many of whom were teetering through the snow in stiletto boots! Well, I guess it's a crampon spike of sorts.


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## hopkins (Feb 21, 2009)

had not thought of fashion shoes as traction devices on snow but why not?
Better than flip-flops.

To get an idea of what the smaller 1 watt led 3aaa headlamps will do take a look at this: a TripReport & vid link to some guys with headlamps doing a winter ascent up Lone Pine Peak in California. Very funny as they climb up in the dark with their headlamps on snow and granite trying to route find.

http://pullharder.org/2009/02/20/winter-ascent-of-the-complete-north-ridge-of-lone-pine-peak/


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## nate_ricklin (Feb 25, 2009)

hopkins said:


> To get an idea of what the smaller 1 watt led 3aaa headlamps will do take a look at this: a TripReport & vid link to some guys with headlamps doing a winter ascent up Lone Pine Peak in California. Very funny as they climb up in the dark with their headlamps on snow and granite trying to route find.
> 
> http://pullharder.org/2009/02/20/winter-ascent-of-the-complete-north-ridge-of-lone-pine-peak/



This is funny! That's my trip report and it was this ascent that got me thinking that I need a bigger badder headlamp for all-night climbing/routefinding, so i've been checking out these forums.

We couldn't see very far and didn't even really know were on-route until dawn.

We typically want to go super-crazy light, so the smaller the headlamp the better, but I'm thinking that for planned night-climbing, 100 grams more is totally worth it to actually be able to see. 

I ended up getting a petzl myo rxp for the next gnarly night-time blitz.


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## likeguymontag (Feb 25, 2009)

nate_ricklin said:


> We typically want to go super-crazy light, so the smaller the headlamp the better, but I'm thinking that for planned night-climbing, 100 grams more is totally worth it to actually be able to see.



Definitely agree. The consequences of getting lost are far greater than the consequences of carrying an extra 100 grams.


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## Derek Dean (Feb 26, 2009)

nate_ricklin said:


> This is funny! That's my trip report and it was this ascent that got me thinking that I need a bigger badder headlamp for all-night climbing/routefinding, so i've been checking out these forums.
> 
> We couldn't see very far and didn't even really know were on-route until dawn.
> 
> ...


Howdy Nate and welcome to CPF. 
That was a really funny video..... thoroughly enjoyable and nicely done. I'll look forward to your next installment. 

By the way, I've been looking at the Myo RXP, so I hope you'll post a short review after your next gnarly nite-time blitz.


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