# Scratch resistant Titanium finish?



## haul_n_horses2 (Aug 5, 2011)

I have been lusting after a Preon2 Ti light and have recently noted the changes from polished to satin (sandblasted or brushed) finish. Question is how does this hold up? Do keys or change in your pocket scratch the finish much. I am planning to carry this in a pocket sheath with a EDC blade but it will still get exposed to pocket change etc.


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## ragweed (Aug 5, 2011)

Any metal to metal contact will scratch. I do not have Ti but, do have SS & it is scratched but, not badly. I would imagine Ti would be the same.


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## derfyled (Aug 5, 2011)

ragweed said:


> Any metal to metal contact will scratch. I do not have Ti but, do have SS & it is scratched but, not badly. I would imagine Ti would be the same.



TI scratches way more easily than SS...


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## haul_n_horses2 (Aug 5, 2011)

ragweed said:


> Any metal to metal contact will scratch. I do not have Ti but, do have SS & it is scratched but, not badly. I would imagine Ti would be the same.


Well I have carried some hard anodized aluminum scaled knives and even with a checkered surface they held up pretty well. Just wondering how the newer "satin finish" used by 4Sevens will hold up. I am thinking the satin finish will show these more than the polished finish?


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## peterharvey73 (Aug 5, 2011)

Your question is about finish: fully polished, sandblasted/matt, or machined/brushed?
I have a fully polished Ti myself.
From 30 cm or more away, it looks beautiful.
However, when we look close up, like 20 cm or less, we see thousands of tiny scratches, and my Ti has no metal coin or key contact whatsoever.

To answer your question, I suspect a brushed/machined, or sandblasted/matt surface will disguise the scratches more.
Fully polished surfaces seem to be more sensitive to scratches.

Another thing, my polished Ti surface is NOT annodised - electro-chemically coated with another layer.
Annodised electro-chemically coated layers will come off with metal coin & key contact very easily.
Against coins & keys, go for pure hard ss, then pure light Ti; not annodised...


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## Colorblinded (Aug 5, 2011)

Based on my Ti watch it will scuff up quite a bit over time but you'll be hard pressed to break it. Ti scratches pretty easily.


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## Tsportmat (Aug 5, 2011)

derfyled said:


> TI scratches way more easily than SS...


 
I can back this up. My old Seiko Titanium is scratched to pieces. Titanium is generally more 'industrial' than SS, it has it's uses of course, but if you want jewellery, I'd avoid Ti. Having said that, I don't know how bead-blasted Ti holds up.


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## precisionworks (Aug 5, 2011)

I like bead blasted Ti, as the grip is much better, it's non reflective, and it doesn't show markings nearly as much as polished.

A pair of Ti Quark Tactical 123's, before:









And after:






The ends are covered with Delrin caps that are bored for a press fit. After blasting, the ends are hand rubbed to a satin patina:














Haven't yet reached the point where I want to do the McG lights, but did do a Pocket Rocket 8 XM-L
















Some people like vanilla, some like chocolate :nana:


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## haul_n_horses2 (Aug 7, 2011)

Thanx for all the replies. Guess I have no worries with the sandblasted finish currently offered!


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## precisionworks (Aug 7, 2011)

haul_n_horses2 said:


> Thanx for all the replies. Guess I have no worries with the sandblasted finish currently offered!


 
In the interest of full disclosure, a bead blast finish is not a panacea. The BB surface is the same hardness as the underlying metal. If something hard is rubbed against it a shiny spot will appear. 

The only way around this is to apply a HAIII hard anodized coating or to apply a DLC diamond like coating. The cost for either is 200 dollars and I don't expect to get many requests


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## darkzero (Aug 7, 2011)

You might want to look into getting it stonewashed if you like the appearance. Unlike beadblast, it's pretty resistant to scratches from everday use, perfect for an EDC, since it's basically a plethora of scratches. Not that it matters for Ti but stonewash finish is pretty resistant to rust on steel since it's hard for rust to form on the scratched surface.

I'm not a fan of high polished flashlights, aside from the machined look, stonewash is one of my most favorite finishes & I'll stonewash anything I can!



















Here's a Mcgizmo Ti S27-PD in stonewash that I worked on a couple of years back (not the stonewashing). Hope the owner doesn't mind me posting but I fell in love with it when I saw it as I never seen it previously on a flashlight.






(Sorry, I do not offer stonewashing services)


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## Anglepoise (Aug 7, 2011)

Still think it is hard to beat the 'Machined' look done with a scothbrite pad in the lathe or by hand. Scratches and scuffs from EDC can be removed and the item brought back to new condition quickly and easily.


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## wquiles (Aug 7, 2011)

darkzero said:


>



I think that the combination of stonewashing on the outer surfaces combines with the "bright" finish on the internal groves looks fantastic


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## darkzero (Aug 7, 2011)

wquiles said:


> I think that the combination of stonewashing on the outer surfaces combines with the "bright" finish on the internal groves looks fantastic


 
Thanks Will! :wave:


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## precisionworks (Aug 9, 2011)

I don't have anywhere to send a light for stone washing BUT ... if you find an old washing machine sitting by the curb (and it still runs) the agitator action is similar to a vibratory tumbler. Post photos if this works & I'll start scrounging the back yards :nana:


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## darkzero (Aug 9, 2011)

precisionworks said:


> I don't have anywhere to send a light for stone washing BUT ... if you find an old washing machine sitting by the curb (and it still runs) the agitator action is similar to a vibratory tumbler. Post photos if this works & I'll start scrounging the back yards :nana:





When I started getting into stonewashing, I found that there's a "poor man's" method. Some people use a plastic jar with rocks from the yard, water, soap, & the strong arm method. The results are pretty good! Have even heard of some people using cement mixers too!

Stonewashing can be expensive & time consuming though. Wish I had room & enough air for my own blast cabinent but I guess I could always just send it to you. 

But as you said, you also use your clothes dryer but your SWIMBO may kick your *** just like when you used her oven to powder coat. :laughing:


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## smarkum (Aug 9, 2011)

darkzero said:


> You might want to look into getting it stonewashed if you like the appearance. Unlike beadblast, it's pretty resistant to scratches from everday use, perfect for an EDC, since it's basically a plethora of scratches. Not that it matters for Ti but stonewash finish is pretty resistant to rust on steel since it's hard for rust to form on the scratched surface.
> 
> I'm not a fan of high polished flashlights, aside from the machined look, stonewash is one of my most favorite finishes & I'll stonewash anything I can!
> 
> ...


 
That McGizmo is BEAUTIFUL! WoW


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## tino_ale (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi all,
I have BB my haiku twice. The first BB finish was done with low psi shot giving a very light bright satin finish. The second time I used higher psi shot resulting in a more pronounced and little darker finish.

For some reason I'm under the impression that the second BB finish has hold up better than the first. I can't help but think that the resulting compressive forces localy applied but the BB process somehow alters the way the metal will resist and show scratches.

In the industry I understand bead blasting is often used for it's benefits on the mechanical properties of the parts rather than for the look of them (obviously). Apparently, and that's never been mentionned on CPF AFAIK, bead blasting is used on titanium to adress the risk of shearing. BB leaves a uniform compressive force at the surface, which greatly reduce the problem of shearing.

I don't see why it couldn't also play a role on how the part will or will not take scratches... but that's just a theory.


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## archer6817j (Aug 9, 2011)

Is it a known convention to call a tumbled finish "stone washed?" it reminds me of 80's jeans  I'm just curious because I call the finish on my lights "tumbled" (because that's what I do to them) but maybe I should be calling it stone washed?

Oh and this finish hides small scratches fairly well because the surface pattern is randomized. Deep scratches...no finish will hide that.


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## shao.fu.tzer (Aug 9, 2011)

HA Al > Titanium > Mild Stainless - Bare aluminum is around 15 rockwell. Titanium alloys, even when hardened to their max hardness (which is usually only used for titanium bladed knives) is still somwhere in the mid 40s on the rockwell scale, probably closer to the low-mid 30s on a light. Mild stainless is usually around 25-30, whereas most HA Aluminum is around 55-60...

Go figure...


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## precisionworks (Aug 9, 2011)

> I can't help but think that the resulting compressive forces localy applied but the BB process somehow alters the way the metal will resist and show scratches.
> 
> In the industry I understand bead blasting is often used for it's benefits on the mechanical properties of the parts rather than for the look of them (obviously). Apparently, and that's never been mentionned on CPF AFAIK, bead blasting is used on titanium to adress the risk of shearing. BB leaves a uniform compressive force at the surface, which greatly reduce the problem of shearing.
> 
> I don't see why it couldn't also play a role on how the part will or will not take scratches... but that's just a theory.



You are exactly right about the alteration of mechanical properties. The two primary methods are *shot blasting* and *shot peening*. 

"Shot blasting" includes sand; steel shot; cut wire shot; chilled iron; garnet; olivine, a soft abrasive material for use on decorative stone or non-ferrous metals; and glass beads used to polish rather than remove surface coatings on soft metals and plastics.

"Shot peening" consist of small spheres of cast steel, cut wire formed into nearly round shape (both carbon and stainless steel), ceramic, and glass material. 

Blasting does impart some improvement in compressive strength but the effects are randomized & hard to control. Peening is the more widely used process. 

One of my customers has a large Hayden Steelabrader, which uses steel shot as a tumbler media. I'm sure he'd let me run a light (or a few hundred lights) through the process. The parts cage is just a little smaller than a 55 gallon drum, and the wire mesh openings are 1"x1" ... a Maglite would not fall through but any SF certainly would.


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## smarkum (Aug 10, 2011)

My kids got a plastic rock tumbler for a holiday one year. It took like three weeks to make the gem from the gravel they included with the kit. We had to set it in corner in the carhole as it was SO loud. . . would this work for creating a stonewashed look? I realize it would have to be a small piece as the unit is cheesy plastic . . .


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## precisionworks (Aug 10, 2011)

smarkum said:


> My kids got a plastic rock tumbler for a holiday one year. It took like three weeks to make the gem from the gravel they included with the kit. We had to set it in corner in the carhole as it was SO loud. . . would this work for creating a stonewashed look? I realize it would have to be a small piece as the unit is cheesy plastic . . .


It will eventually give the result you want, but you'll have to search for media & experiment a few times. Every shape under the sun is available, as well as dozens of hardness levels, etc.


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