# Surefire Kroma, good or bad idea?



## camhabib (Jun 30, 2007)

First time posting here, been reading for a short while, but just recently decided to join. I just purchased a Surefire Kroma from the Surefire website. I'm an EMT, as well as a gadget freak, and have been needing a good light for some time now. I thought it had all very useful features, including a low white light for checking pupils and etc, bright white for general purpose, red for preserving night vision, and blue for looking for traces of blood. I thought it was a bit much for a flashlight, but from what I've heard, its not a complete waist.

Are there any other options I should consider before its too late to go back on the Kroma? I don't really know too many other high end light brands (I usually just use a Maglight) so I had a somewhat hard time shopping around.

Also, are there any options as to a Surefire holster and rechargeable batteries for this light? I took a look on the site and I didn't see any that were "approved" for the light, but I figured there must be at least one. Thanks.


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## Archangel (Jun 30, 2007)

You can use a 17670 in it. The light won't regulate, but you'll get two hours of slowly dimming output on high white.

Another to at least consider is the Streamlight Sidewinder, which will be out next month. It's not as bright, but it has a 1/2watt white (behind an optic) and red, blue and green 5mm - we assume - LEDs, all four with four brightness settings (5, 20, 50, 100%). It uses 2xAA side-by-side, so it's compact. The head is on a 90degree swivel. 
http://flashlightnews.org/story829.shtml


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## EV_007 (Jun 30, 2007)

The multi-colored multi-LED setup is truly a useful feature. I've put my Kroma into my ever changing EDC setup.


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## seery (Jun 30, 2007)

WELCOME to CPF.

From what you describe the intended use to be, the Kroma seems like a
very nice fit. You will make use of all the Kroma has to offer.

For the average person, the Kroma is a bit large for EDC. For professionals
like yourself, l wouldn't worry one bit about the size. It will fit perfectly into
a side pant pocket.

If you are after a holster, IMO the ONLY option is to have John Willis custom
make one to your specifications. John is the best in the industry for tactical
gear. Do a search and you'll find all you need to know to get in contact with
John.

As far as rechargeables go, I'm the wrong man to ask. I sold the last of my
SF rechargeable lights (9N's) and now use only Surefire OEM 123 cells in all
my SF lights.

If it's not to late, I'd highly recommend you get the Krom from the great folks
over at OpticsHQ.com. Top notch in EVERY WAY and it will save you around
$70.00.

Good luck and nice to have you aboard.

Happy Torching!


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## camhabib (Jun 30, 2007)

Thanks for all the replies so far. As for the holster, I was looking for something along the lines of the one shown here:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=166468

Would this need to be made or is there one that I can just pick up pre-fabricated?


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## Art Vandelay (Jun 30, 2007)

seery said:


> If it's not to late, I'd highly recommend you get the Krom from the great folks
> over at OpticsHQ.com. Top notch in EVERY WAY and it will save you around
> $70.00.



Camhabib, welcome to CPF. While it used to be true that OpticsHQ had great deals on Surefire, now they have to sell them at MSRP. I just double checked this. The prices are the same logged on or not. They are the same prices listed at Surefire.com. You might think that this is illegal, but it is not. This week the Supreme Court overturned a nearly century old rule of anti trust law against retail price fixing. To some extent, we may have to say goodbye to brand name discounts.

Surefire does make hight quality flashlights, but LEDs have made a huge jump in efficiency and brightness. Surefire has not yet put these new LEDs in their flashlights. They have announced that they are going upgrade the flashlights in the 2007 edition. They said they are not even going to raise the price when they upgrade them. If you are going to spend $ 300 on a flashlight ,you should not have to settle for out of date LED technology.


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## camhabib (Jun 30, 2007)

Art Vandelay said:


> Camhabib, welcome to CPF. While it used to be true that OpticsHQ had great deals on Surefire, now they have to sell them at MSRP. I just double checked this. The prices are the same logged on or not. They are the same prices listed at Surefire.com. You might think that this is illegal, but it is not. This week the Supreme Court overturned a nearly century old rule of anti trust law against retail price fixing. To some extent, we may have to say goodbye to brand name discounts.
> 
> Surefire does make hight quality flashlights, but LEDs have made a huge jump in efficiency and brightness. Surefire has not yet put these new LEDs in their flashlights. They have announced that they are going upgrade the flashlights in the 2007 edition. They said they are not even going to raise the price when they upgrade them. If you are going to spend $ 300 on a flashlight ,you should not have to settle for out of date LED technology.



Does anyone know when these new versions will be available?


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## Art Vandelay (Jun 30, 2007)

I don't know when they will be shipped. I would assume they would be shipped in 2007 because they are in the 2007 catalog.

If you like Surefires, you might consider an A2 or an E2E. Some people prefer the brightness an long runtimes of the new Cree \ Seoul LEDs to incans. I can understand that. However, incans do have a few advantages over LEDs. One advantage is is that skin tones of fair skinned people are more accurate with incans than with the LEDs. With the LEDs, it will be much harder to tell if someone is not getting enough oxygen by looking at them.


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## defusion (Jun 30, 2007)

Art Vandelay said:


> Camhabib, welcome to CPF. While it used to be true that OpticsHQ had great deals on Surefire, now they have to sell them at MSRP. I just double checked this. The prices are the same logged on or not. They are the same prices listed at Surefire.com. You might think that this is illegal, but it is not. This week the Supreme Court overturned a nearly century old rule of anti trust law against retail price fixing. To some extent, we may have to say goodbye to brand name discounts.
> 
> Surefire does make hight quality flashlights, but LEDs have made a huge jump in efficiency and brightness. Surefire has not yet put these new LEDs in their flashlights. They have announced that they are going upgrade the flashlights in the 2007 edition. They said they are not even going to raise the price when they upgrade them. If you are going to spend $ 300 on a flashlight ,you should not have to settle for out of date LED technology.


opticshq lists the MSRP prices on their site, but if you contact them they will tell you otherwise. browse around on these forums the find out how.

and where did you hear they are updating their lights? i've only heard about a select few; the L5, L1, E1L, and E2L. the rest won't get updated for at least a while.


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## Patrik (Jun 30, 2007)

So does anyone know if the Kroma is up for an Cree upgrade? 

Edit: Just what I have heard, upgrade for a few models, not the Kroma however.


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## tussery (Jun 30, 2007)

Patrik said:


> So does anyone know if the Kroma is up for an Cree upgrade?


Not this year. There has yet to even be an announcement about an upgrade on the Kroma.


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## camhabib (Jun 30, 2007)

Honestly, I used the Kroma in store, and outdated or not, I was very impressed with its performance in the few minutes I played with it. I would have bought it right there but they were out of stock.

My main concern right now is just finding accessories for it (holster + rechargeable batteries if possible).


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## defusion (Jun 30, 2007)

camhabib said:


> Honestly, I used the Kroma in store, and outdated or not, I was very impressed with its performance in the few minutes I played with it. I would have bought it right there but they were out of stock.
> 
> My main concern right now is just finding accessories for it (holster + rechargeable batteries if possible).


isn't it about the same as the U2 in outer dimensions? should be easy to find a holster then.
and you could always use 3.0v RCR123's, they might not be perfect, but they work. as long as you don't use high currents like with incan's, you should be okay. or maybe the protection circuit can even manage 3.7v batteries, but i suspect you might have difficulty finding someone willing to risk trying to see if it destroys it or not with a $300 light.


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## cobra-ak (Jun 30, 2007)

Welcome aboard CPF, Kroma is a good all around EDC light, I work on machinery and it spots trouble quick, I share my work duties between my E2L and my K2=MS.


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## camhabib (Jun 30, 2007)

defusion said:


> isn't it about the same as the U2 in outer dimensions? should be easy to find a holster then.
> and you could always use 3.0v RCR123's, they might not be perfect, but they work. as long as you don't use high currents like with incan's, you should be okay. or maybe the protection circuit can even manage 3.7v batteries, but i suspect you might have difficulty finding someone willing to risk trying to see if it destroys it or not with a $300 light.



I just checked the pictures and it looks like it is. They recommended the V91 holster for the U2; anyone have any experience with the Kroma and the V91?

As for the batteries, I don't think I'd like to risk it. It sounds like the rechargeable batteries might blow the circuits on the light, and I can't really afford to have that happen out on the field when I'm really dependent on my equipment working 100%.


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## Size15's (Jun 30, 2007)

SureFire are preparing to release updated versions of the E1L, E2L and L1.
They have also confirmed they are going to release LED versions of the G2 and 6P - the G2L and 6PL.

They were planning to updated the L5 but this has been put on indefinite hold.

They have not shared any plans to update any other flashlights. The next we'll likely here of new new products is SHOT Show 2008.


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## Size15's (Jun 30, 2007)

The Kroma bezel diameter is the same as the U2, M2, L5 at 1.47".
However, the Kroma bezel is shorter than the U2 bezel (but the Kroma two-stage push button pressure switch TailCap is a bit longer than the U2's push button pressure click switch TailCap. Overall its about 15mm shorter.


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## camhabib (Jun 30, 2007)

Size15's said:


> The Kroma bezel diameter is the same as the U2, M2, L5 at 1.47".
> However, the Kroma bezel is shorter than the U2 bezel (but the Kroma two-stage push button pressure switch TailCap is a bit longer than the U2's push button pressure click switch TailCap. Overall its about 15mm shorter.



So any holster that fits a U2 should fit the Kroma?

Anyone have directions on how to remove the clip from the barrel?


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## Size15's (Jun 30, 2007)

camhabib said:


> So any holster that fits a U2 should fit the Kroma?
> 
> Anyone have directions on how to remove the clip from the barrel?


I don't see why it shouldn't.

To remove the PocketClip you ease the black plastic clip cover off towards the TailCap end of the body and the clip can be removed.

I'm not at home so I don't have access to either one of my U2s, a Kroma or a SureFire U2 holster.


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## Archangel (Jun 30, 2007)

I have a Ripoffs holster - no idea which one to tell you, though - and yeah, it fits both the Kroma and U2.


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## scubasteve1942 (Jun 30, 2007)

The low white of the kroma is a little to bright to check pupils with. I would stick to a penlight for that or even a mini mag


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## elgarak (Jun 30, 2007)

scubasteve1942 said:


> The low white of the kroma is a little to bright to check pupils with. I would stick to a penlight for that or even a mini mag


I was about to say the same; however, I'm not in the medical business, so I'm not sure.

The ideal light for that is, or sadly rather was, the Inova X1, with its not overly bright, tight, round beam. A friend of mine actually sold his 1st gen X1 to an MD for that purpose.

Otherwise, the Kroma is an awesome light. Covers a lot of ground in one light.


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## GreySave (Jun 30, 2007)

I am not in the medical profession, so I cannot comment either on whether the low output is suitable for pupil checking, but the Kroma is an excellent low output performer for all colors and the low white, and the high white is adequate for most normal tasks.

For a holster, consider the Wolf-Eye's H17 through Pacific Tactical Solutions. That's what I use and it works very well and is also very affordable. It is not eleastic based, so getting the light in and out of the pouch is very easy.


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## camhabib (Jun 30, 2007)

scubasteve1942 said:


> The low white of the kroma is a little to bright to check pupils with. I would stick to a penlight for that or even a mini mag



I thought it might be. I shinned it it my own eyes in the store in with light coming from the windows and lights overhead and it seemed to be just bright enough to check responsiveness during the daytime. I did not have a chance at night to use it though, but can see how it may be too powerful. I'll probably pick up a cheap penlight for that use as it doesn't take up much space or weigh that much.


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## EV_007 (Jun 30, 2007)

Here's the biz end of the Kroma close up. All this shining in the eyes talk inspired me to snap this image. The round center "pupil" is the camera lens just inches from the TIR of the Kroma. Super macro mode of my Canon S3 IS.


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## Xanteen (Jul 1, 2007)

For belt carry, I use a Blackhawk "BTS Night-Ops Light Pouch-Open Top" and it fits my Kroma Mil-Spec and U2 bezel-down perfectly. It keeps the lights handy while protecting the window. It's about $15.

For PALS/Molle attachment, I have a Maxpedition 5" Sheath that fits the U2 like a latex glove in the bezel-up position. I think this was about $20.

Here's a few photos I shot for reference:


Kroma in the BTS
U2 in the BTS
U2 in the Maxpedition 5" Sheath
Kroma Mil-Spec & U2, side-by-side


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## camhabib (Jul 1, 2007)

Xanteen said:


> For belt carry, I use a Blackhawk "BTS Night-Ops Light Pouch-Open Top" and it fits my Kroma Mil-Spec and U2 bezel-down perfectly. It keeps the lights handy while protecting the window. It's about $15.
> 
> For PALS/Molle attachment, I have a Maxpedition 5" Sheath that fits the U2 like a latex glove in the bezel-up position. I think this was about $20.
> 
> ...



Thanks for those shots, that Maxpedition sheath looks like a nice fit. I'd be interested in seeing a picture of the U2 or Kroma in the Surefire V91 sheath if anyone can get one.

On a side note, does anyone have some good recommendations as to where to buy a sheath, as well as a Leatherman knife and a few other small related items? I've heard mention of some places offering coupons for CPF members, but had a hard time finding the sites or coupons. I'm looking to get the best possible deal while still not dealing with some random sketchy 
online retailer.


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## Archangel (Jul 1, 2007)

GreenLED is the Keeper of the Coupons. The link is in his sig.


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## carrot (Jul 1, 2007)

For knives, I usually buy from GPKnives.com or NewGraham.com -- both are excellent dealers, with some of the best prices around and quick shipping. Lighthound.com also stocks a few knives... always been very pleased with their service.

I have a link to greenLED's "CPF Specials" in my sig.


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## cobra-ak (Jul 1, 2007)

Look up John Willis for his Kroma holsters, fit and function are awesome


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## camhabib (Jul 2, 2007)

Just received my Kroma in the mail a few hours ago; I just have one this to say... wow. Thing works perfectly. The only complaint I could even possibly think of, which really isn't that bad of one, is just that it because of its weight, it doesn't feel like its a solid built object, but I have no doubt that it can take a serious beating.

ETA: Does anyone hear a kind of almost beeping / squealing sound coming from the tail when they turn on the light to full power?


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## Archangel (Jul 2, 2007)

It's faint, but yeah.


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## camhabib (Jul 2, 2007)

I also took off the bezel (I'm too curious for my own good) and wound up smudging the inside of the lens and the center optical (rubber piece came out of place and did it), so I cleaned them off with a dry towel and now there is a few very small pieces of dust in there, not to mention some very fine scratches. Is that going to be an issue?


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## carrot (Jul 2, 2007)

Not really, no. Unless dust bothers you, that is.


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## elgarak (Jul 2, 2007)

camhabib said:


> I also took off the bezel (I'm too curious for my own good) and wound up smudging the inside of the lens and the center optical (rubber piece came out of place and did it), so I cleaned them off with a dry towel and now there is a few very small pieces of dust in there. Is that going to be an issue?



The same happened to me; mine got some pieces of the O-ring in there. It doesn't really disturb the performance, and the O-ring should seal again. It's mostly cosmetic. 

Nevertheless, it bothered me a lot  . You can clean the lens with rubbing alcohol/isopropanol quite nicely. Blow out the pieces floating around in there with some clean electronic spray cans, if you can. Then very careful reassembly; the problem is that the bezel is obviously not intended to be taken apart, and that the O-ring is easily twisted/damaged. Work slowly, and with some patience you should be able to get in back together.


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## Patrik (Jul 2, 2007)

Just ordered a Kroma, this is going to be so interesting.  I am really looking forward to it. I bought this sheath to go along. 

http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2073


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## PelicanCaseNut (Jul 2, 2007)

How long will the bulb last in the kroma?


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## Radio (Jul 2, 2007)

PelicanCaseNut said:


> How long will the bulb last in the kroma?



It's an LED so it should outlast YOU!!!!!


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## Size15's (Jul 2, 2007)

PelicanCaseNut said:


> How long will the bulb last in the kroma?


Welcome to CPF!
The Kroma has a LuxeonIII LED, not an incandescent bulb. I don't have a lifespan rating from SureFire. My guess would be many (tens?) thousands of hours.


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## PelicanCaseNut (Jul 2, 2007)

Size15's said:


> Welcome to CPF!
> The Kroma has a LuxeonIII LED, not an incandescent bulb. I don't have a lifespan rating from SureFire. My guess would be many (tens?) thousands of hours.


 

Thanks for the welcome, I have read alot of your posts, very good info!

The surefire site says thousands of hours, I hope it lasts a good while for 300 clams!


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## Patrik (Jul 3, 2007)

By the way, does the electronics inside the Kroma leave it someway vulnerable to cold? Or are all SF light made to work in and below, lets say - 20 degrees Celsius? Not talking about the batteries that is.


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## elgarak (Jul 3, 2007)

Patrik said:


> By the way, does the electronics inside the Kroma leave it someway vulnerable to cold? Or are all SF light made to work in and below, lets say - 20 degrees Celsius? Not talking about the batteries that is.



I don't believe that low temperature is a design parameter for Surefire. That is, they are not specifically made for low temps. In fact, I doubt any flashlight is.

Nevertheless, the electronics should work BETTER at low temps. 

The biggest problems at low temps are the batteries and the metal body for touching/freezing problems.


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## Busse (Jul 3, 2007)

Ive been winter camping with some of my non LED Surefires and they worked good after laying in a cold tent for 9-10 hours. The temps were around zero F



How often do you need to lube the threads on lets say a Kroma? will emersing it in water make this more important?


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## scubasteve1942 (Jul 4, 2007)

So did you have a chance to use the kroma on duty yet? If you did, how did you like it?


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## camhabib (Jul 4, 2007)

I actually did get a chance to use it last night. Works like a charm. The improvement over a regular old AA Mag is incredible. Checking a patient for injuries and looking around the scene is much easier. I definitely think these should be standard issue for all EMT's. I haven't got a chance to use check for blood using the blue led, but I'm curious to see how well that works. I did use the low powered white to do pupil checks and asked people if it was too bright for them, they said it wasn't. I'll probably just continue to use a pen light though.


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## LED61 (Jul 4, 2007)

You´ve got a heck of a light. try not to mess with the insides. I use mine every day and the feature I use most is Low red mode. I walk in total darkness and don´t wake up the wife or kids.


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## Patrik (Jul 12, 2007)

Just got my Kroma a couple of minutes ago, Cree in the future or not. Its still a great light. Judging by my first impression this could be one of the best if not *The* best light I have had. I noticed that it has room for an additional O-ring at the tailcap just as the M-series... perfect! Put another one on and now the light is double protected from water. A bit harder to turn the tailcap, but I consider that as something good. Perhaps a little to big for EDC, but anyway... a great flashlight! I`ll buy one of the new E1L or Novatec for EDC.

Me and my flashlight are really good friends. :kiss:


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