# Surefire A2 Four Flats



## DimeRazorback (Aug 29, 2009)

So, in the weird and wonderful way the world works, I just scored a four flats A2 for $80, after just going through the trauma of breaking my beloved Y-G A2 

It has the flat (non crenulated) bezel, a fairly low serial number (A03xxx), and a short clip.

I have done a fair bit of searching, but I can't find an answer to this question!

Did the A2 ever come with a short clip?
Or would it just be a replacement?


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## [email protected] (Aug 29, 2009)

It sure did. Just look in some old A2 threads. A2's are going for so cheap lately...


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## DimeRazorback (Aug 29, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> It sure did. Just look in some old A2 threads. A2's are going for so cheap lately...



Ah ok, so there was the short clip then they changed to the long one?

I did look around and saw short clips but I wasn't sure if people just put them on or if they were factory installed...


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## [email protected] (Aug 29, 2009)

I think it went like this.

Square body, short clip, flat bezel.

Square body, long clip, flat bezel.

Triangular body, long clip, crenated bezel.

I'm probaly wrong though.


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## DimeRazorback (Aug 29, 2009)

That's the order I thought it was in aswell... someone will come and confirm or deny it for us soon I am sure :thumbsup:


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## Petersen (Aug 30, 2009)

in the 2002 Catalog, the A2 has a "semi" round body (round with 4 flats), long clip, and a E-series-like Bezel (straight) and is called "Digital Fusion Series)..
EDIT (5,9" long) also an optional LA available : MA01 25 Lumens for 130 min

and then in 2003 it get's the short clip, more flat body (and looks shorter to) and the bezel we know today..

But I'm sure that someone from the UK, can give the complete history


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## ymfymf (Aug 31, 2009)

I like the long clip very much. Does anyone know whether the short clip can be replaced please?


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## mwaldron (Aug 31, 2009)

Yes, the clips are all interchangeable. You just have to obtain one. It looks as if even the new reverse clip on the A2L will fit the A2 just fine. 

The short clips are somewhat rare, I'm sure if you posted a trade on CPFMP you'd have no trouble getting a long one. A call to SF might get you one as well.


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## foxtrot824 (Aug 31, 2009)

I may have a short clip from an e1e laying around if you are interested.


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 1, 2009)

Mine's a 4 flats cren bezel short clip but I made it that way! :naughty: Strion kit, orange/yellow 3mm led's, prototype onion ring, delrin tailstanding ring.

A10369 - I can hardly remember the stock configuration.


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## Illum (Sep 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> It sure did. Just look in some old A2 threads. A2's are going for so cheap lately...



yep, it originally came in 4 flat long clip, then short clip, then went round with round long clip:candle:
Occasionally you'll see a short clip round flying by in BST...but I'm under the impression they were modified

With the advances in Surefire's product lines, the A2's prices have fallen steadily from ~$150 to about ~$80


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## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2009)

Illum said:


> yep, it originally came in 4 flat long clip, then short clip, then went round with round long clip:candle:
> Occasionally you'll see a short clip round flying by in BST...but I'm under the impression they were modified
> 
> With the advances in Surefire's product lines, the A2's prices have fallen steadily from ~$150 to about ~$80



I mainly think it's the loads of people unloading A2's on the MP. They're still quite expensive on the 'bay last time I checked.


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## DimeRazorback (Sep 2, 2009)

I was lucky with this!

It was on the bay for only a few minutes before I snapped it up


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## RobertM (Sep 4, 2009)

DimeRazorback said:


> So, in the weird and wonderful way the world works, I just scored a four flats A2 for $80, after just going through the trauma of breaking my beloved Y-G A2
> 
> It has the flat (non crenulated) bezel, a fairly low serial number (A03xxx), and a short clip.
> 
> ...



Congrats on the new A2 at a great price! So what's happening with your YG A2? Did you call SF? Are they going to replace the whole bezel (hopefully)?

-Robert


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## DimeRazorback (Sep 4, 2009)

I have sent an email, and I will see what happens there.

If no reply soon, I will have to work around everything to make a phone call...


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## [email protected] (Sep 4, 2009)

When did you send the email? I had 3 email exchanges with the SF rep already this week.


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## DimeRazorback (Sep 4, 2009)

Wednesday :shakehead

Maybe hotmail accounts are spam blocked??


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## Solscud007 (Sep 4, 2009)

I would just call them directly. I dont bother with the internets. or you can contact. [email protected] he is the tech support supervisor.


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## DimeRazorback (Sep 4, 2009)

Calling them sounds good in plan, but timezones make it very difficult for me.

I would contact him, but I don't want to send a random email to someone with no explanation as to where I got their email address


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## sygyzy (Sep 10, 2009)

Any particlar reason why the MP is flooded with A2's? What is the equivalent replacement from Surefire. IOW, a light with ain incandecent primary and LED's secondary?


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## Solscud007 (Sep 10, 2009)

DimeRazorback said:


> Calling them sounds good in plan, but timezones make it very difficult for me.
> 
> I would contact him, but I don't want to send a random email to someone with no explanation as to where I got their email address



whoops I didnt realize you are all the way in Australia.


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## mwaldron (Sep 10, 2009)

The A2 is it's own replacement, it has not been discontinued. 

They have recently begun shipping the A2L, an LED primary with various colored secondaries but so far it's reviews, imo, are not favorable.

There are always loads of A2s on CPFMP, and it's a great time to pick one up. $100 should get you a great new A2 there....



sygyzy said:


> Any particlar reason why the MP is flooded with A2's? What is the equivalent replacement from Surefire. IOW, a light with ain incandecent primary and LED's secondary?


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## DimeRazorback (Sep 10, 2009)

Solscud007 said:


> whoops I didnt realize you are all the way in Australia.



No problem man :thumbsup:


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## computernut (Oct 6, 2009)

Petersen said:


> in the 2002 Catalog, the A2 has a "semi" round body (round with 4 flats), long clip, and a E-series-like Bezel (straight) and is called "Digital Fusion Series)..
> EDIT (5,9" long) also an optional LA available : MA01 25 Lumens for 130 min
> 
> and then in 2003 it get's the short clip, more flat body (and looks shorter to) and the bezel we know today..
> ...


 
Too bad Surefire never came out with the optional MA01 lamp... Maybe Lumens Factory will come out with an equivalent to go with their HO-A2 lamp.


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 6, 2009)

Just realised I forgot to update this with a snap shot of the A2!

I will get to it later today!


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## Patriot (Oct 6, 2009)

Petersen said:


> in the 2002 Catalog, the A2 has a "semi" round body (round with 4 flats), long clip, and a E-series-like Bezel (straight) and is called "Digital Fusion Series)..
> EDIT (5,9" long) also an optional LA available : MA01 25 Lumens for 130 min
> 
> and then in 2003 it get's the short clip, more flat body (and looks shorter to) and the bezel we know today..




Are you saying that early A2, 2002 and before, were 5.9" long instead of the 5.5" long that they are now? If that's the case I wonder how were they able to shorten them? :thinking:


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 6, 2009)




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## computernut (Oct 6, 2009)

DimeRazorback said:


>



Sweet! I have a white 4-flats on the way. I'm planning on putting my Y/G head on it.


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 6, 2009)

I have another Yellow-Green on the way 

...it will be number three!


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## Illum (Oct 6, 2009)

computernut said:


> Sweet! I have a white 4-flats on the way. I'm planning on putting my Y/G head on it.



if your Y/G head came from a round A2...the xenon lamp might not work if you swap heads, I dunno if its just mine or did Surefire break compatibility between models, but MA02 lamps for round bodies absolutely will not work in 4 flats lights. 
I use my 4 flats sparingly for this reason:shrug:


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## NE450No2 (Oct 7, 2009)

I just switched "heads" between my flat and my round A2 and then switched bulbs between the heads.

Everything fit and worked perfect.


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## Petersen (Oct 7, 2009)

Patriot said:


> Are you saying that early A2, 2002 and before, were 5.9" long instead of the 5.5" long that they are now? If that's the case I wonder how were they able to shorten them? :thinking:


 
That's what's stated in the Catalog,,, but maybe it was never released. - wouldn't be the first time, SF catalogs don't add up with real life 
( or maybe THIS was the first time  the one who started it all)

Anyway, here's what stated in the Catalog (copy from PDF)
Lamp: 60 Lumens
LED: 3 Lumens
Runtime Lamp:60 min
Runtime LED: 1,500 min
Batteries :Two
Lamp: MA02
Length :5.9"
Weight: 4.1 oz.
1"
----
Optional:MA01
Lumens : 25
Runtime :130
Blending LEDs and traditional tungsten lamps is not entirely new
for SureFire— we incorporate LED navigation lights on several
of our WeaponLight™ systems— but for the first time,
SureFire is combining LED illumination with a tungsten filament
incandescent lamp in an exciting new model called the
Aviator. We call the marriage of LED and tungsten lights
Fusion™ Technology.
Designed for pilots, the Aviator features three LEDs in an
E2e Executive-size body, plus the E2e’s bright 60 lumen
tungsten lamp. The three LEDs can be ordered in red,
white, blue or green. An infrared version is available for
military use. The Aviator features a two-position tailcap
switch, like 10X Dominator, to allow an airman
to trigger just the low-output LEDs for map reading
or checking his instruments, and then a harder
press activates the bright tungsten light for performing
a pre-flight check.
The Aviator is also an ideal pocket light for
hunters. Walking to a deer stand before sunrise,
a hunter can utilize the red LED as a
low-output navigation light. Deer cannot
see light in the red spectrum. Order
another one with blue LEDs and the
Aviator becomes an excellent tracking
light. SureFire’s police customers
long ago found that using blue
light to search for clues at a crime
scene help the investigator to see
blood spots. Blood stands out
prominently under blue light.
Fusion Technology, led
by the new Aviator, is destined
to become one of
SureFire’s most significant
contributions
to the improvement
of illumination
tools.

illumination​tools.


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 2009)

Petersen said:


> That's what's stated in the Catalog,,, but maybe it was never released. - wouldn't be the first time, SF catalogs don't add up with real life
> ( or maybe THIS was the first time  the one who started it all)
> 
> Anyway, here's what stated in the Catalog (copy from PDF)
> ...



weird... It's more like 80 lumens for 45 minutes... They might of changed it. Sorta ot but my newer a2 have a more textured reflector(less throw) and different knurling on the tail.


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## computernut (Oct 7, 2009)

Illum said:


> if your Y/G head came from a round A2...the xenon lamp might not work if you swap heads, I dunno if its just mine or did Surefire break compatibility between models, but MA02 lamps for round bodies absolutely will not work in 4 flats lights.
> I use my 4 flats sparingly for this reason:shrug:



I've heard of this but I haven't seen anything conclusive searching around here. Does the LF HO-A2 fit both models?


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## computernut (Oct 7, 2009)

NE450No2 said:


> I just switched "heads" between my flat and my round A2 and then switched bulbs between the heads.
> 
> Everything fit and worked perfect.



So you kept the lamp with the body or the head? If you keep the 4-flats body with the old head, will the new MA02 fit?


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## mwaldron (Oct 7, 2009)

Patriot said:


> Are you saying that early A2, 2002 and before, were 5.9" long instead of the 5.5" long that they are now? If that's the case I wonder how were they able to shorten them? :thinking:



If I remember correctly the original A2 Tailcap was slightly longer than the current one, the longer one did not last very long. 

I could be completely off base but I'm pretty sure I saw a picture comparing them in an A2 thread somewhere on CPF.


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## Illum (Oct 7, 2009)

computernut said:


> I've heard of this but I haven't seen anything conclusive searching around here. Does the LF HO-A2 fit both models?


 
I don't know, for that was the primary reasons I never actually bought a LF-HO-A2, for one thing I have plenty of new MA02s to run in my round A2:candle:

For me its easier just to do an LED ring swap, but be advised, once the screws "feel" snug, LEAVE IT! tightening the little screws the same way you tighten self tapping countersink screws on your deck or bookshelf and you'll strip the threads right out. :shakehead



mwaldron said:


> If I remember correctly the original A2 Tailcap was slightly longer than the current one, the longer one did not last very long.
> 
> I could be completely off base but I'm pretty sure I saw a picture comparing them in an A2 thread somewhere on CPF.


 
It was, and there was a definite change in to A2s operation as well. When you align the 4 flat A2s witness marks with each other 2 turns from lockout the LEDs should remain off and both LED and xenon camn be momentarily activated. the newer tailcaps though, once those witness marks align the LED is contant on with the xenon being momentarily accessible.

Some believed this was due to an improvement in the L1 generation, and since the L1 and L2 uses the same tailcap as the A2, it was synchronized into the A2 generations thereafter. I have no solid information to refute this as I do not own any genberation of L1s, but perhaps someone who does can chime in


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## mwaldron (Oct 7, 2009)

Illum said:


> ... It was, and there was a definite change in to A2s operation as well. When you align the 4 flat A2s witness marks with each other 2 turns from lockout the LEDs should remain off and both LED and xenon camn be momentarily activated. the newer tailcaps though, once those witness marks align the LED is contant on with the xenon being momentarily accessible....



I've noted that behavior (and I hate it) but I never put 2+2 together with the 4 flats vs the round. My touch of OCD always wants those witness marks aligned and I just can't do it with a couple of my A2s! At least now I know why. Thanks Illum.


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## Illum (Oct 7, 2009)

mwaldron said:


> I've noted that behavior (and I hate it) but I never put 2+2 together with the 4 flats vs the round. My touch of OCD always wants those witness marks aligned and I just can't do it with a couple of my A2s! At least now I know why. Thanks Illum.



sure thing 
I have two square A2s and one round. I was hoping someone can either refute or reinforce my claim with other round A2s just to be sure mine isn't an oddball

Occasionally I forget and just feel by hand and align the witness marks and I get this "whats glowing in your pocket?" question when someone walks by at night
D*oh!


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## JNewell (Oct 7, 2009)

Illum said:


> sure thing
> I have two square A2s and one round. I was hoping someone can either refute or reinforce my claim with other round A2s just to be sure mine isn't an oddball
> 
> Occasionally I forget and just feel by hand and align the witness marks and I get this "whats glowing in your pocket?" question when someone walks by at night
> D*oh!


 
I also have 2 four-flats lights and a round YG that I converted to four-flats with an eBay find. I have some old and some relatively recent LAs and I haven't found a combination that doesn't work. I think it may be something related to your light...or maybe I'm lucky, dunno...


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## NE450No2 (Oct 7, 2009)

Let me see if I can explain this correctly.

I have a flat and a round A2,

Either bezel assembly will fit either body.

Factory Lamps that I have ordered as relacements fit either bezel.

The LF HO A2 lamp fits either bezel.

So near as I can tell, any lamp that fits one fits the other, and everything will "glow in the dark" when the tail switch is pressed.


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## mwaldron (Oct 8, 2009)

Illum said:


> sure thing
> I have two square A2s and one round. I was hoping someone can either refute or reinforce my claim with other round A2s just to be sure mine isn't an oddball
> 
> Occasionally I forget and just feel by hand and align the witness marks and I get this "whats glowing in your pocket?" question when someone walks by at night
> D*oh!



Ok, I pulled them all out last night and tested (ok, only 4, 2 4-flats and 2 rounds) and here's what I discovered.

When aligning the witness marks on the 4 flats, the light was off, any slight additional twist will put the LEDs on.

When aligning the witness marks on 1 of my round A2s, the LEDs were on. about 1/16 of a turn before the witness marks was required to keep them off.

My other round A2 has some parasitic drain somehow. Time for a thorough cleaning. When aligning the witness marks on that round A2, the LEDs were not on, but even touching the back of the tail-cap (not the rubber switch, the tail-cap itself) would cause enough pressure to turn the LEDs on. 

The last thing I discovered what that I still need 1 more non-led A2.


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## Illum (Oct 8, 2009)

mwaldron said:


> Ok, I pulled them all out last night and tested (ok, only 4, 2 4-flats and 2 rounds) and here's what I discovered.
> 
> When aligning the witness marks on the 4 flats, the light was off, any slight additional twist will put the LEDs on.
> 
> ...



:lolsign:

the parasitic drain is funny though, I've always thought it was either heat during storage or batteries going to sleep. I had a batch of Energizers that were both 100% on the ZTS and only a month passed and I see this uneven 40-60. I took them out from the A2, stuffed it in the G2, lit it for about 5 seconds, took it back out and tested it, 100-80. hmm:candle:

I'll check my round A2 tonight, see what its batteries are reading


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## computernut (Oct 8, 2009)

Thanks for the input guys. It looks like all the A2 parts/lamps are compatible with each other. I'll play some lego once I get my 4-flats.


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## NE450No2 (Oct 8, 2009)

Wich one do you guys prefer the A2 Flat or Round? 
And why?

Just curious.


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## mwaldron (Oct 8, 2009)

NE450No2 said:


> Wich one do you guys prefer the A2 Flat or Round?
> And why?
> 
> Just curious.



I prefer the square ones, I find they're easier for me to grip, they look better (personal preference) and they tend to have the offer the 2nd stage "dim" mode (it's a bug that SF later fixed) as a warning when your batteries get weak.


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## JNewell (Oct 8, 2009)

mwaldron said:


> I prefer the square ones, I find they're easier for me to grip, they look better (personal preference) and they tend to have the offer the 2nd stage "dim" mode (it's a bug that SF later fixed) as a warning when your batteries get weak.


 
What he wrote. Plus, the 4-flats seem smaller (though I think it's mostlly an illusion).


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## computernut (Oct 8, 2009)

I don't have mine yet but I like the looks of the older 4-flat sided version. I like the styling of the older L1's too.


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## Petersen (Oct 9, 2009)

mwaldron said:


> When aligning the witness marks on that round A2, the LEDs were not on, but even touching the back of the tail-cap (not the rubber switch, the tail-cap itself) would cause enough pressure to turn the LEDs on.
> .


 
Had the same, which was annoying, so I swithed TC with my L2 (which I don't use so often...)
- so problem solved... ehhh moved to the L2 


I tend to like the Round model.. but I have never seen the square i real-life.
-but it was the round model with it's long clip, that made me


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## lightplay22 (Oct 9, 2009)

I just checked my round A2 and when witness marks are aligned there is no light. I find that I must turn almost 1/4 turn to get the led's to light up. I like my square side best and carry it everyday in a leg pocket of my work clothes. The square sided one just feels better in my hand.

The lights are both the same length and the tailcaps are also, and both lights have the long clip.


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## Illum (Oct 9, 2009)

NE450No2 said:


> Wich one do you guys prefer the A2 Flat or Round?
> And why?
> 
> Just curious.



for me, it really comes down to aesthetics...
the early PK designs has this special effect to it, it motivates the users thought, it makes you think when it rests in your hand, it attracts attention to itself naturally, even when its turned off. It was the first high powered square flashlight known to the forum. 

I can put my square A2 in the middle of a table full of different lights, from the small fenix, the professional looking inovas, to the bulky maglites, and there will always be someone that walks by, picks the A2 out from the rest and examine it closeup.




Back in 2006 A2s were in such high demand there was a time when Surefire couldn't turn them out fast enough. and I regret not being able to acquire a red one when they were cheap

These later PK designs are becoming rounder and rounder, which distorts the kind of aesthetics only found in the old designs. 
A2s made some people compelled to hoard them. Notably...who else, DM51





I bought a round A2 as a duty light, but given a choice I would still EDC the square one if I'm on my own time out in the woods. My choice of EDC is slowly bring consumed by a fleet of LEDs, but when it comes to differentiate colors, the A2 is still wonderful. Its not as impressive either in output or runtime as the Surefire M6 using an MN15 lamp, but try EDCing an M6 while walking a trail:shrug:


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## TJx (Oct 9, 2009)

NE450No2 said:


> Wich one do you guys prefer the A2 Flat or Round?
> And why?
> 
> Just curious.



I have 8 A2 Flats, and 1 round.
Similar reasons already mentioned: much better ergos, aesthetics, mystique.


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 10, 2009)

Illum said:


>


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## Illum (Oct 10, 2009)

DimeRazorback said:


>



its not my pic, I only have white LEDs in mine, its the best one I've managed to find online as a wallpaper


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 11, 2009)

That is a very nice pic!

But I made a mistake in my quote!
I was drooling over DM51's collection :laughing:

I would love a collection of A2's like that!!

I changed my other post to correct it :thumbsup:


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## Illum (Oct 11, 2009)

DM51 actually has three, not two, black A2s at his disposal....plus you've seen his M6 collection already so..


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 11, 2009)

:shakehead

A man can dream!





One day... one day I will have 6 M6's and a Black A2!



:twothumbs


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## computernut (Oct 16, 2009)

I got my 4-flats A2 White today. I immediately put my Y/G head on it and the incan wouldn't work. I swapped things around until I figured out it was the lamp that was doing it. Using a pair of digital calipers I figured out that the older lamp assemblies had a slightly fatter center button. The 4-flats bodies also seem to have a flatter center pad. When you use a newer LA on the 4-flats bodies the two conductors aren't making good contact. I wanted to use something conductive to close the gap but wanted to avoid anything that could come loose and short out. I took a newer MA02 and put a little layer of solder on the center of the metal button and now it works fine!


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## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2009)

computernut said:


> I got my 4-flats A2 White today. I immediately put my Y/G head on it and the incan wouldn't work. I swapped things around until I figured out it was the lamp that was doing it. Using a pair of digital calipers I figured out that the older lamp assemblies had a slightly fatter center button. The 4-flats bodies also seem to have a flatter center pad. When you use a newer LA on the 4-flats bodies the two conductors aren't making good contact. I wanted to use something conductive to close the gap but wanted to avoid anything that could come loose and short out. I took a newer MA02 and put a little layer of solder on the center of the metal button and now it works fine!



You can also carefully remove the bottom contact on the lamp assy and swap them.


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## computernut (Oct 16, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> You can also carefully remove the bottom contact on the lamp assy and swap them.



I was thinking of that but it looked like there was some discolouration where the wire contacted the metal button so I thought maybe it was welded.


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## [email protected] (Oct 16, 2009)

Pulled it off, deoxit, pushed it back. Works fine so far.


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## JNewell (Oct 17, 2009)

I have a mix of old and newer A2s and LAs and have not seen this. I wonder if there is a tolerance range for the lights and/or LAs that results in tolerance stacking with certain combinations that results in the problem that you and others have identified. 



computernut said:


> I got my 4-flats A2 White today. I immediately put my Y/G head on it and the incan wouldn't work. I swapped things around until I figured out it was the lamp that was doing it. Using a pair of digital calipers I figured out that the older lamp assemblies had a slightly fatter center button. The 4-flats bodies also seem to have a flatter center pad. When you use a newer LA on the 4-flats bodies the two conductors aren't making good contact. I wanted to use something conductive to close the gap but wanted to avoid anything that could come loose and short out. I took a newer MA02 and put a little layer of solder on the center of the metal button and now it works fine!


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

The labour that's needed to test lights and la's for match will even out the savings for a slightly wider tolerance.


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