# Cheap China HID aspheric mods?



## treysoucie (Mar 29, 2011)

Is this worth the effort? I just recently bought a cheap china HID and am toying with modding it with an aspheric lense to focus the beam... Id want to be able to go from a large beam or even flood to a throw beam.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 29, 2011)

I am also interested in this for better throw I dont have an aspherical to try it out but have a good place to get some large ones just dont want to spend the cash if it isnt going to work


Joe


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## seven11 (Mar 29, 2011)

I think this would be an awesome MOD as I don't think anyone has tried it yet. Because the aspheric lens would gather and focus the light, I think you would get some incredible lux ratings out of doing it. I would encourage you to do it just because I haven't seen anyone else do it.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 29, 2011)

would need a 76mm lense for the ebay flashlight style HID will search my source


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## curby (Mar 29, 2011)

As others have said, it would be an interesting project. However, you have to keep in mind that the radiation pattern from an HID is totally different than a LED, so the appropriate reflectors and lenses to use are likely different as well. 

Again, it's not to say that an appropriate lens couldn't further focus the light from a given HID. But the usual aspheric that's put in front of a bare LED will almost certainly not give you the results you want. 

2c


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 29, 2011)

Yea thats the concern I have I guess I could hover my 50mm aspheric over the lense to gain a basic idea of what might be possible. Also wondering if using a reflector combo would be better in this case rather then bare Aspheric. I dont have alot of exp with this stuff but do know a great deal about lenses and mirrors as I build telescopes. In any even should be fun playing around with it. 

Was just thinking about this, it will work because I have projector lense HID headlights on my wifes car and they throw the light very well. I guess at this point I'm now looking for a lense lol

Joe


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 29, 2011)

Been there, done that & it doesn't work.


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## 2filthy3 (Mar 29, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> Been there, done that & it doesn't work.



Copy that, the light from the lens (~70mm) was extremely non uniform, non focussed and full of artifacts, I suggest you purchase a cheap DX aspheric and at least find out for yourself.

However if you really want to try and make it work, research "polyelispoid reflectors".


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 29, 2011)

who did it? They do work I have a set of projectors on the wifes car my guess is you have to figure some ratio to figure correct size and focal lenth for it to be effective but they do work well on cars so that should apply here as well.


Joe


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## 2filthy3 (Mar 29, 2011)

Your torch most likely has a parabolic reflector, for your project you will need an ellipsoidal reflector, to gather the light and then pass it through the lens.







The small parabolic reflector on these hid flashlights just doesn't collimate the light effectively enough for it to be used with a lens, not stock standard anyway.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 29, 2011)

2filthy3 said:


> Your torch most likely has a parabolic reflector, for your project you will need an ellipsoidal reflector, to gather the light and then pass it through the lens.


 
That's the principle of my Mega Blaster, blows away any HID on the planet:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...er-My-first-short-arc-mod-MegaRay-style/page3


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## treysoucie (Mar 29, 2011)

ya I didnt think about how the reflector would still scatter the light... if I went with say an ellipsoidal studio type reflector with an aspheric lense I wouldnt be able to really do the "flood to throw" thing would I?


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## BVH (Mar 30, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> That's the principle of my Mega Blaster, blows away any HID on the planet:


 
Be interesting to pit the Mega Blaster against a good-mirror'd 60" carbon arc - an HID. Throws enough light to be able to read a newspaper at 5.7 miles when new.


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

BVH said:


> Be interesting to pit the Mega Blaster against a good-mirror'd 60" carbon arc - an HID. Throws enough light to be able to read a newspaper at 5.7 miles when new.


 

Noooo, not the Carbon Arc 
I was thinking about a Carbon Arc DIY but decided against it, don't want to risk playing with Carbon Monoxide as I do all my mods in the kitchen.

Seriously, I didn't think that's in the HID light bucket?


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 30, 2011)

Was for sure gonna replace the reflector its pretty crappy even for its intended purpose I think having one made would be the best option will have some math to do figuring out the best option big problem rite now is finding a 76mm lenses so till I find that I'm on hold


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## BVH (Mar 30, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> Seriously, I didn't think that's in the HID light bucket?


 An electric arc creating plasma between two electrodes, sounds like HID to me, just without the glass envelope around the arc.


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## taurasmark (Mar 30, 2011)

Due to the 3 post rule I figured you guy's would be the best peps to get advice from as I am unable to start a new thread as of yet 

I was wondering if anyone could tell me what determines the firing time of a HID touch?

I currently have a 35w HID torch that I purchased from China, the only problem is that is can take up to 8 seconds to reach it's maximum.

Would it be a simple case of just buying a new HID bulb such as Philips or Osram?

Thanks in advance


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## BVH (Mar 30, 2011)

Most HID's require warm-up time - usually 15-25 seconds for full brightness. If your light is fully bright in 8 seconds, you're doing very well. Short Arc HID lights usually require no warm up time but usually have fewer Lumens but longer throw capability.


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 30, 2011)

Agree with BVH My 38/50W ebay HID takes around 15 seconds to come up to full brightness. As for the Bulb I have a Phillips in my Cyclops HID mod and its rite around the same amount of time to warm up and get to full brightness. I do have a question for you Taurasmark the HID you have is it the 35W flashlight style if so have you had the ballast out of it or would you be willing to take it out and measure the ballast lenth minus the bulb. If you need help I can help you its held in with 3 screws under the reflector. The reason is there are replacements ballast for these lights 3 different sizes some of us are trying to find out what each size is rated at, but for some reason we all seem to have the same size ballast so far.
If it's not something you wanna do its no problem and I understand. But it would have just killed me not to ask LOL

Joe


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## ma_sha1 (Mar 30, 2011)

taurasmark said:


> I currently have a 35w HID torch that I purchased from China, the only problem is that is can take up to 8 seconds to reach it's maximum.
> 
> Would it be a simple case of just buying a new HID bulb such as Philips or Osram?
> 
> Thanks in advance



I don't think different bulb changes the start up time, that's is controlled by ballast. 

You can change ballast & look for the quick start type. The ballast programs the 
lamp with ignition followed by high amp warm-up period, the higher the programed 
warm up current, the faster it finishes warm up, at a cost of reduced lamp life.


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## 2100 (Mar 31, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> . I do have a question for you Taurasmark the HID you have is it the 35W flashlight style if so have you had the ballast out of it or would you be willing to take it out and measure the ballast lenth minus the bulb. If you need help I can help you its held in with 3 screws under the reflector. The reason is there are replacements ballast for these lights 3 different sizes some of us are trying to find out what each size is rated at, but for some reason we all seem to have the same size ballast so far.


 
Be very careful when taking out the ballast. As it will slide out from the battery compartment hole at the back of the torchlight, the ballast body will slide out first, and when that part ends it will drop out, *BUT THE BULB WILL STILL BE WITHIN THE CONFINES OF THE FLASHLIGHT TUBE*. So what happens is the ballast body angles and drop out, the bulb hits the tube, and the bottom part of the quartz bulb support will break.

Somebody pls ask me how I know that. LOL! Luckily its the 50W ballast, not the brand new 65W ballast. I have a 65W coming in! 

Also be careful when the metal washer is screwed out. You can remove the battery by sliding out, you'll be ready for that probably. But then you will not be ready for the falling out ballast.  

2nd bummer!


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## Throwjunkie (Mar 31, 2011)

Mine isn't like that ill shoot a pic to show you my flashlight head assy comes apart rite where the head joins the body

Here is the pic of how my comes apart


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## seven11 (Apr 5, 2011)

Throwjunkie said:


> Was for sure gonna replace the reflector its pretty crappy even for its intended purpose I think having one made would be the best option will have some math to do figuring out the best option big problem rite now is finding a 76mm lenses so till I find that I'm on hold


 
It might take a few e-mails to get the transaction completed, but it might be worth checking out one of the following manufacturers to get a custom aspheric. Just tell them that you want a "sample order" of one or two aspherics. I think I'm going to try and get some aspheric lenses for my XLR250 kill lights, just for the fun of it:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/263618401/Aspherical_Lens_Fire_Polished_Lenses_Optical.html

http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/228544568/aspheric_lens.html


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 5, 2011)

AWSOME you have the kill lights also how you like them I have 3 and they throw like crazy can easly light up deer and racoons at 250 yards where my property is.

Ill check out the links you posted I did find one I think will work at DX

Joe


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## seven11 (Apr 6, 2011)

Yeah I love my kill lights. I had a one of those big scope lights before with the sealed lead-acid battery. I got so tired of lugging that heavy thing around, that when I when I got my kill lights I fell in love. 

I put the creator of the DEFT in touch with Elusive Wildlife Technologies in the hopes that he could help them create a "super light". They two companies are only a few miles apart, so maybe we'll see some DEFT-inspired kill lights in the future.

I recently saw a 75mm aspheric on DX for $7. I'm sure this is the same one you saw. Good luck with your mod. I'll post pics of the lens on my kill light once it's all done.


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 7, 2011)

awesome yes thats the one at DX. I talked at great lenth with Bobby from elusive he told me they are putting an ext tube out for the 250 so it can use 2 18650 cells. The R2 emitter in the light with deep reflector is very nice I dont know if the second battery will drive it harder of if they are looking for better run time I just today ordered a 3A driver and XM-L emitter I wanna make a pill for the light and see how the XM-L performes in that reflector. I'm gonna make the Pill from copper on my lathe should do better with the heat over the aluminum one. so far the Kill light using the R2 emitter is the best thrower in the R2 class at 1 meter I have the Tiablo A9 and DBS V3 both with R2 and the kill light kills both of them for throw. the hotspot is only 2" and the spill only 21" total I have a meter on the way cant wait to see how well it spec's. Would be nice to see it with aspheric but then it wouldnt use the reflector so I doubt it would be any better at that point. Gonna shoot bobby an email to see where there at on the EXT. and see if I can pry some info from him on any additional output lol.
OK as I just went and looked the ext is now avalible lol

Joe


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## seven11 (Apr 8, 2011)

The XML will be a sweet mod with the deep reflector on the kill light. Keep us updated!


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 8, 2011)

will do Placed order with shiningbeam yesterday should have it in a few days then a day to make the pill and install the driver and emitter. Not sure yet if I'll have to open up the entry hole on the reflector I dont think I will but can do that on the lathe if so. I ordered 2 ext tubes from Elusive today and am waiting on a responce from Bobby there advertisement says increase in run time. I'm hoping the extra battery will ramp up the output a tad also. will find out in a few days when the ext comes.



Joe


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## dellayao (Apr 14, 2011)

well,it is advisable.if it works, i'd like to have a try .


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## Ekinorak (Apr 14, 2011)

Just got a 65 Watt Ebay HID and allready have a 75mm aspherical from DX= Sku 43044. the 75mm seems to be a bit big(maby 1mm) i think someone with the rigth tools can make it fit.

Here is a picture:


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 14, 2011)

Ekinorak said:


> Just got a 65 Watt Ebay HID and allready have a 75mm aspherical from DX= Sku 43044. the 75mm seems to be a bit big(maby 1mm) i think someone with the rigth tools can make it fit.
> 
> Here is a picture:


Will be able to mod the Asheric if it ever gets here week 3 from DX still looks like its sitting in china from the tracking info provided wish I knew why it takes so long to put a package in a plane or boat I mean it's a simple thing to do. That shold not take 3 weeks unlessyour crawling through chest high MUD for 100 miles 
The tracking says waiting for post to ship.


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## Ekinorak (Apr 14, 2011)

Tried it outside a little, i could barly focus the beam at all.


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 17, 2011)

did you have to hold the lense in place or did you get it to fit also can you try and see if you need to hold the lense away from the bezel to focus it or if it need to set deeper in the head to focus 


Joe


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## Ekinorak (Apr 17, 2011)

I could not focus the beam at all, and you will not be able to either. The flashlight came with a yellow lens, i could fit my aspherical in that and just strap it onto the flashligth, however it just gave my beam loads of articats and more spill.
Im waiting for Trustfire X6 and ill be using the aspherical on that one 
Still the throw on this HID aint the worst considering a 3'' reflector. It outhrows my sst-50 thrower easily.


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## Throwjunkie (Apr 18, 2011)

ok I assure you so long as the lense doesnt need to touch the bulb to focus I will get it to work. I have a mill and lathe as well as a foundry to cast the corrct extension if needed you saying you put the lense in the yellow filter to install it and get more spill that way says to me the lense needs to be closer to the bulb to focus. as that filter slips on over the head of the light thus putting the lense further from the bulb. Is this the case as best you can tell if so I will try to fit it inside the head rather then making a part to extend it. Also have you tried it without the reflector as you now they aren't made very well and having an Aspheric lense on with it may magnify the bad areas thus making artifacts. Please keep me informed.

On another note for seven11 I put an XM-L in the Kill light running on 2.8A shinning beam driver its for sure just as tight a hot spot and just a shade -dimmer now this is on 1 cell as soon as my ext comes in for the kill light I'll use 2 batteries Im sure its gonna be a nicer thrower with the XM-L will post Pics as soon as I get the ext 

Joe


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## Ekinorak (Apr 19, 2011)

This is how i fitted the lens. As people said before you cannot focus a bulb that sends out light in the same matter as a led.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 19, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> Been there, done that & it doesn't work.


 
Alright, May be I should elaborate a bit more on this. 

It won't work for several reasons:

1. Need to get rid of the parabola reflector, as the reflected parallel lights turns into artifacts through the lens.
2. The glass pole on top of the arc chamber blocks the arc chamber's light path toward the lens. 
3. Even if you position the lamp side ways to allow a clear path between arc chamber the lens, You'll only collect 60 degree out of 360 light source, i.e 1/6 (17%) of the light, as HID bulb is 360 degree light source vs. led 120 degree. The Throw will be much less than a single reflector, which easily send >60% of the the light forward.

Technically, it can be done, just not as simple as placing lens over the bulb.
The most common way is to use a elipical reflector that reflect the light to a second focal point 
ahead of the original arc chamber, then send it through the lens.


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