# 1st CPF knife



## schiesz (Jan 24, 2008)

Is anyone interested in collaborating on a knife project? I think it would nice to see the 1st CPF blade. 
Yes, I am speaking to you makers out there.
And *Yes*, I am speaking to all other CPF members that are interested.

I believe that flashlight people are quite a bit like knife people, and quite a few flashaholics are probably knifaholics as well. 
My idea here is to desigh a EDC type knife that will appeal to a wide range of flashaholics, although it might not have much to do with flashlights (at least directly).
Here are a few things that *I* would like to see in the knife:

6-7" OAL
Plain edge
choil
$100 base price (possible to add to base with different handle materials, sheath materials, etc..)

I don't know if the $100 cost is attainable, or reasonable, but i'd like to try to get there if we can. 

The best part of a CPF knife, in my mind, is incorporating the communities ideas and allowing as many as are interested to participate.

I believe, if we keep the blank design simple, we can make something that is attainable. 

There are factors that I do not understand, such as cost differences between a knife that requires a 3" wide blank of steel as opposed to a knife that needs a 1.5" blank of steel, and I am hoping that the knife makers here can assist us with understanding these things.

These are JUST my ideas, and if people have other ones do not hesitate to post them. We will probably end up having a few polls or something to figure out which direction we need to go. 

We had a lot of ideas in a previous thread, and I grabbed a few of those images that I especially liked:

I was pointed out to me before that the straight handles are not very ergonomic. What I would REALLY like to see if a cross of the second picture here with the handle from the last picture (designed by tensizteen). Click on the thumbnails to enlarge.

1




2




3




4




I haven't had time to figure out how to make that cool curved handle fit the blade shape I prefer and keep the choil, so if anyone has any good ideas for that please post them! Please feel free to use or modify my designs here in any way that may assist you.

So there you have it. A CPF knife by the members, for the members.

Anyone interested? 

Lets hear, and *SEE* your ideas!


schiesz


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## Chronos (Jan 24, 2008)

Excellent! Glad to see this revived. I'm on a short break, but a couple of ideas:

- Keep the blade length to 3" or 3.5" max (legalities for edc)
- Framelock or linerlock? I prefer framelock, but linerlock would give us two handles to work with (can we afford G10 at the prices discussed?)
- Try to incorporate the CPF colors in the handle(s)
- I love the idea of keeping the cost down... available to more CPFers 
- Best blade steel that we can afford
- Keep a choil, and add a lanyard loop
- Create a textured thumb ramp on the upper edge of the blade
- I'd suggest a spearpoint or "spanto" blade, plain edge, for all around usefulness

I'm sure that titanium frame, CPM154, D2 are probably out at this pricepoint, but I think we could get a decent quality stainless for the frame and blade.

I'd suggest obtaining a list of "wants" and get some feedback from knife makers on what works/doesn't work with our basic requirements for cost and size. Then fully define the actual requirements and have someone create a few designs to pick from. Do a vote to select the final candidate, and watch the magic happen. :twothumbs


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## schiesz (Jan 24, 2008)

Chronos said:


> I'd suggest obtaining a list of "wants" and get some feedback from knife makers on what works/doesn't work with our basic requirements for cost and size. Then fully define the actual requirements and have someone create a few designs to pick from. Do a vote to select the final candidate, and watch the magic happen. :twothumbs



I really agree with this suggestion. It will simplify the process and allow the knife maker to establish their personal "style" into the design.

And since you brought this up, i'd like to address the topic of folder versus fixed blade.

We have mentioned a price of around $100. For a custom designed and built knife such as this, is it possible to make a folder for this price? I would LOVE to make this project be a folding knife, it would make the utility for me double at least, but I don't know if it is possible given our SUGGESTED price constraints.

To the custom builders reading this, what is a reasonable price range for a folding knife? 

schiesz


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## DonShock (Jan 24, 2008)

Keep in mind that you've got to expect weird ides from a guy that builds a Mag6D into a rifle, but.......

What about building in a recess in the handle or a clip along the spine that would allow attaching a small but functional light like a Fenix L0D. I find that I tend to pair up a light and a knife of similar sizes for my different levels of every day carry. It would be nice to have a single piece that incorporated both into a single unit I could carry in the pocket opposite my keychain.

I'll try to work up a photo of what I'm seeing in my mind and post it later.


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## powernoodle (Jan 24, 2008)

A fixed blade would come much closer to that $100 figure than would a folder. I just don't see it happening with a folder. Not a custom folder, anyway. JMO.


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## meuge (Jan 24, 2008)

schiesz said:


> 2
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like this design


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## bigmark408 (Jan 24, 2008)

I think a hundred bucks is unrealistic.

Do you know how many hours a maker puts into 1 knife ?

What about a sheath ? time and materials ?

I have a friend that does customs and he put average of 11 hours into each knife.

Knife steel
belts for grinder
handle material
rivets or fasteners for handle
sheath material
drill bits
electricity
shop rent
etching or engraving

What kind of finish would you like ?
beadblast
hand satin
tumble (stonewashed)
Hi Tech coating....DLC ect.......

How unique would this knife be ?

Not much that hasnt been done.

Maybe you should find a production knife that is mass produced and have your logo added.

These are just a few of my thoughts and opinion's....NO harm intended !!


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## sunspot (Jan 24, 2008)

How about a Mini-Griptillion ordered from Benchmade with CPF color and logo?
It would be legal in most places and not cost a lot of money.


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## schiesz (Jan 24, 2008)

George Tichbourne stated in a previous thread that $100 was a reasonable range for a similar fixed blade knife with basic options, and that folders are typically more expensive because of the mechanical assembly involved. What price range would we be in for a basic folder?

I'd like to see a knife maker's opinion on folder pricing before we completely rule it out, and maybe the answer to that is a good first poll to have. $100 fixed versus $?? folder.

I think a fixed blade is going to give us the most options in a reasonable price range, but will wait for an expert opinion.

There have been several mentions of "CPF colors" and "CPF Logo". What are these exactly? I know the site is typically blue and yellow, and there is that pill shaped box the site name is usually in, but are these "Official" CPF items?

Any discussion of production knives needs to be in a separate sub-forum. Discussions in the "Custom Forge" are for Custom knives only.

schiesz


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## sed6 (Jan 24, 2008)

I'd like to see a folder. Something with a Spyderco 'spiderweb' style handle. By that I mean something that can have wording or an image as the web style. I'd like to see a pic of a flashlight on one side and CPF on the other. I'll post a pic soon.


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## 65535 (Jan 25, 2008)

Hmmm, I like the idea, I think a 8" fixed blade with a 4" blade and a 4" handle, would work for most people, Busse Combat Blades has a great simple design that gets rave reviews that could be the baseline for "our" knife. You might also consider contacting spyderco be it by e-mail to them or through Bladeforums.com about a limited run of folders with certain colors and materials to get a neutral and functional knife.

Just some input.


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## shakeylegs (Jan 25, 2008)

Cabellas offers a full size Griptillian with D2 blade retailing at $90. I'm guessing they have it made for them as I haven't seen the D2 version anywhere else. Regardless, if they use a standard markup, their cost should be about $45 to $50 per when purchased in quantity. I would think a $100 custom CPF Grip should be very do-able.


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## greenLED (Jan 25, 2008)

sunspot said:


> How about a Mini-Griptillion ordered from Benchmade with CPF color and logo?
> It would be legal in most places and not cost a lot of money.


Dunno about special handle colors, etc. but I'd be in for a mini-grip with laser-engraved "CPF" on it.


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## DaFABRICATA (Jan 25, 2008)

:thinking:


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## Sigman (Jan 25, 2008)

I'm liking what I'm reading here! I'd have to go back to the old thread to extract any further input from myself...HOWEVER... 

While I'd like some nice (but affordable) scales customized in some way for CPF (hmmm, I like what do you call it - epoxy impregnated canvas/micarta, carbon fibre, or?) ...one way to keep the cost down may be to go with a handle similar to design #4 (with the holes). Keeps the weight down, & would allow "CPF colors" parachord wrap (or any other color the owners would like to use for "personalization". Adds a bit more utility as well, at least as far as having a bit of parachord on hand for "whatever"...(BTW is it paracord, para cord, parachord, or para chord?).

Oh BTW, I still vote for a drop point & a kydex sheath if we can work that out?

(Hmmm, maybe the custom BM is worthy of consideration as well? Maybe we could do both? It would be nice to see this particular blade become reality though.)


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## schiesz (Jan 25, 2008)

PLEASE keep references to production knives out of this thread. This is the _*CUSTOM *_forge, for discussion on custom knives. 

Having said that, is there an official CPF logo? 

schiesz


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## RA40 (Jan 25, 2008)

At the $100 price for a handmade fixed blade sub 8":

1. Sandblast or tumbled finish.
2. Kydex sheath though there could be option for leather. 
3. G-10 handle scales and I would probably go screw on opposed to glued/epoxied one. (This simply reduces fitting time.) 

If the maker has a pantograph, each could be serial numbered. Otherwise, hand written with a rotary/engraver. 

Folder, I don't see that happening unless the maker has a benchmade line already in the line-up. (Benchmade=CNC parts with minimal handfitting. Screw em together, sharpen and out they go.)


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## schiesz (Jan 25, 2008)

RA40 said:


> Folder, I don't see that happening unless the maker has a benchmade line already in the line-up. (Benchmade=CNC parts with minimal handfitting. Screw em together, sharpen and out they go.)



George Tichbourne appears to have something along these lines, according to his web site he is making folders that are ready for customization. I am guessing they are still much more along the lines of hand made. I am looking for some pricing info on this, and to see if it is feasible.

schiesz


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## GhostReaction (Jan 25, 2008)

I seriously wont mind doubling the current budget for a nice custom CPF blade.

I ll vote for a drop point blade in either CPM154 or S30V. 

For the handle to be blue and yellow I ll guess G10 is our best option.


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## Grumpy (Jan 25, 2008)

Hollow handle for ARC AAA to fit snug or for a plug so it could be used for storage of whatever. A mini survival type knife.


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## tensixteen (Jan 25, 2008)

hmm...let me see if i can do a sketch to combing the blade element with the handle..will post a pic soon..

Cheerios
Nick


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## tensixteen (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey, what about this?







Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## george tichbourne (Jan 25, 2008)

Let me put my two cents worth in here.

A fixed blade with handle scales only is the least expensive to make.

Add bolsters time and material cost increases.

Change from bolsters to guard, machining work gets involved....more time consuming than bolsters.

And so on...

Folders can take a full day to make up with all the fitting, drilling, tapping, and tuning the lock just right. At this point you have a bare chassis on which to build the finished knife.

Handmade folders will run in excess of $400.

The $100 target leaves you with a tarted up lower end production knife or a fixed blade.

George


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## schiesz (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks George for the information on this.

I've got to think that $100 fixed blade versus $400 folder is a pretty simple decision to make. I think its safe to say this project will be a fixed blade.

schiesz


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## tensixteen (Jan 25, 2008)

here's an edited version of the last design i posted. I felt that there was unneccesary wastage of material just above the choil, so i've shortened it, while still maintaining the presence of a choil. what do you guys think?






Also, here's a drop-point blade variant.






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## schiesz (Jan 25, 2008)

Thanks Nick, I like those designs. 

schiesz


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## tensixteen (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey schiesz,

You're welcome...I enjoy designing knives, and this is just a cool project..let me know if there's any other designs i can incorporate, or even come up with new designs too!..especially folders...i love designing folders.

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## bigmark408 (Jan 25, 2008)

someone is in denial here....i notice no custom maker's are jumping on this thread to make your 100 dolar fantasy knife.

seriously...what kind of decent knife do you expect for your price range. ?

I think the forum deserves more than just a piece of metal with the logo on it.

for what you are asking....your best bet is just a low cost production knife with a logo on it.

If you are serious about this project, then put your ego aside and face reality.

Now maybe if you aproach the likes of Jim Burke or Neil Blackwood with this idea.....you may be able to commision a 50-100 knife order of a cool little neck knife with a logo and a kydex sheath....maybe around a hundred fifty bucks a piece.

Now that would be a cool knife worthy of the forum logo. !!


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## GhostReaction (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi Nick,

Bro, Its a two thumbs up design! 
I m always a fan of drop point but on this one the first design just plain rocks!!
I ll vote for a small utility fixed blade as a CPF first knife and we could progress to a more complex folder if this first blade is a success 

BigMark I like the idea of a custom maker special run necker too! 

Nick any chance if you could make your blade stubbier for a necker? think something like a Krein hydra or TK2 size would be a killer edc.

please,please.... could we stretch the budget more to make it more appealing for custom maker? So that our first cpf forum knife wont be too shabby 





tensixteen said:


> here's an edited version of the last design i posted. I felt that there was unneccesary wastage of material just above the choil, so i've shortened it, while still maintaining the presence of a choil. what do you guys think?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## schiesz (Jan 25, 2008)

bigmark408 said:


> someone is in denial here....i notice no custom maker's are jumping on this thread to make your 100 dolar fantasy knife.
> 
> seriously...what kind of decent knife do you expect for your price range. ?
> 
> ...



Hi Bigmark408, 

I appreciate your input on this, it is very helpful to keep a realistic outlook on the project and I think your comments are helping to keep it realistic. I think a price of around $100 would make it appealing to a wider group of people, but I also realize that it may be impossible to attain that price. I mentioned this in my first post. I don't think there is any ego involved here, and we have had one knife maker (George Tichbourne) say in a previous thread that a similar knife with micarta scales and some kind of sheath COULD be in the $100 range, so I don't think it is EXTREMELY far fetched to attempt to stay close to this goal for the price. 

Having said that, you are correct that we have not had any custom knife makers show any interest in making the knife, but I did just post this yesterday...

schiesz


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## schiesz (Jan 25, 2008)

GhostReaction said:


> please,please.... could we stretch the budget more to make it more appealing for custom maker? So that our first cpf forum knife wont be too shabby



I think if we can decide on a design, we need to approach several knife makers and see what they would charge for such a knife. That is, unless we have one come forward who is interested in the project. I do NOT think it would be appropriate to take the design to someone and say "Make this for $100". The final price will be set by the knife maker themselves, not by our wishes, if we really want to have something made.

schiesz


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## tensixteen (Jan 25, 2008)

Hey GhostReaction,

How does this look?






...stubbier, as compared to the previous version. and Schiesz, I sms'ed Tom Krein about this thread. let's see if he chimes in about the feasibility soon.

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 25, 2008)

bigmark408 said:


> someone is in denial here....i notice no custom maker's are jumping on this thread to make your 100 dolar fantasy knife.
> 
> seriously...what kind of decent knife do you expect for your price range. ?
> 
> ...


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## GhostReaction (Jan 25, 2008)

Bingo!

Very cool design nick!
I ll vote for this design.

Come on Tim, put the popcorn aside and chime in 
In case a maker quote this way beyond $100 I would still like to get it done.






tensixteen said:


> Hey GhostReaction,
> 
> How does this look?
> 
> ...


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## tensixteen (Jan 25, 2008)

haha...and here's just a teaser...in view with the premier of Rambo 4, here's what i think John Rambo would like..(GR, here's the stretched version i was talking about)






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## Monocrom (Jan 25, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> Hey, what about this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Me likey!


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 25, 2008)

GhostReaction said:


> Bingo!
> 
> Come on Tim, put the popcorn aside and chime in
> In case a maker quote this way beyond $100 I would still like to get it done.



I did enough chiming on this topic in the 1st thread, but it seemed that the masses wanted a $100 knife. I am sorry, but I have no desire for a generic knock-off made from cheap materials:sigh:. When it comes to customs, you typically get what you pay for. What I was trying to do in my initial thread, was to give one of the Custom Knifemakers the opportunity to show off their talents here on our Forum. I was not looking for them to get involved in a project that would send them back to Knife Making 101. I really hope everything works out well for you all in this new thread, but it is no longer going in a direction that interests me.


Tim


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## bigmark408 (Jan 25, 2008)

schiesz said:


> Hi Bigmark408,
> 
> I appreciate your input on this, it is very helpful to keep a realistic outlook on the project and I think your comments are helping to keep it realistic. I think a price of around $100 would make it appealing to a wider group of people, but I also realize that it may be impossible to attain that price. I mentioned this in my first post. I don't think there is any ego involved here, and we have had one knife maker (George Tichbourne) say in a previous thread that a similar knife with micarta scales and some kind of sheath COULD be in the $100 range, so I don't think it is EXTREMELY far fetched to attempt to stay close to this goal for the price.
> 
> ...


just trying to give you some insight....i have been collecting knives for a long minute....i would say at present i own a few hundred....i am always having knives made for me by maker's....i can post many pics and some very close to the designs posted here and would guess such a knife would be in the 250 to 400 dollar range...just being real !!

Aproach some makers and see what they have to say.

if you need help in finding maker's, there is a section on this forum with many maker's that can atleast help and maybe show interest in this project. http://www.jerzeedevil.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22


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## george tichbourne (Jan 25, 2008)

It isn't that custom makers aren't interested but it is unethical to poach someone else's designs.

The way to do something like this is to ASK for expressions of interest to build a prototype at least. Some idea of volume also would help when developing final pricing.

George


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## bigmark408 (Jan 25, 2008)

george tichbourne said:


> It isn't that custom makers aren't interested but it is unethical to poach someone else's designs.
> 
> The way to do something like this is to ASK for expressions of interest to build a prototype at least. Some idea of volume also would help when developing final pricing.
> 
> George


 
Hi Goerge, 

Let's be clear ...are you interested in doing a prototype ?

Please be specific....What can you offer in this price range ?

this is a pretty large forum so im sure the needed quantity would be say fifty to start ( just a guess )

any commeents would be appreciated...help is needed to get this off the ground.


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## IsaacHayes (Jan 25, 2008)

My only input, is that if it's a CPF knife... It HAS TO have glow in the dark epoxy somewhere on the handle.


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## jch79 (Jan 25, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Dunno about special handle colors, etc. but I'd be in for a mini-grip with laser-engraved "CPF" on it.



Ooooh yeah. I love the Mini-Grip. Awesome knife at an awesome price. :twothumbs I wonder if they'd consider doing an S30V blade. I like the 154cm, but have always wanted an S30V Mini-Grip.

john


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## DaFABRICATA (Jan 25, 2008)

What..... no handle that accepts 123 cells, has a strike bezel on the tailcap and has Rebels by the hilt?:laughing:.......this is CPF right???


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## george tichbourne (Jan 25, 2008)

Sketches are fine but details like material, thickness, width, surface finish, overall length, blade length, and handle material are more important.

I like the last sketch from Nick, about 9 posts ahead of this one.

Have Nick detail the drawing and we have something to work with.


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## tensixteen (Jan 25, 2008)

Hi George,

sure, will do so when i get home.

Seeya!

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## wild68fury (Jan 25, 2008)

sunspot said:


> How about a Mini-Griptillion ordered from Benchmade with CPF color and logo?
> It would be legal in most places and not cost a lot of money.


 
+1 Might be posssible to have the CPF logo formed into the handle.


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## RA40 (Jan 26, 2008)

A mini poll to gauge what price ranges are acceptable to the CPF community would be helpful. From there, any makers potentially interested can have a rough idea where to start designing a knife. 

For those who may not know I also have glued a few now-then so I'm not to green when it comes to building up a knife.  I'm not taking on projects at this time but if I can help in some way, I'd be happy to.


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## Groundhog66 (Jan 26, 2008)

RA40 said:


> A mini poll to gauge what price ranges are acceptable to the CPF community would be helpful. From there, any makers potentially interested can have a rough idea where to start designing a knife.
> 
> For those who may not know I also have glued a few now-then so I'm not to green when it comes to building up a knife.  I'm not taking on projects at this time but if I can help in some way, I'd be happy to.




Price range was kinda covered in my previous thread, pretty much $100 - $125 is what the masses agreed upon. 

Is the knife in the bottom pic in your post Damascus or Damasteel?

Tim


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## Bloodnut (Jan 26, 2008)

Perhaps the maker would offer the option of a bare blade i.e., no scales on the handle allowing the end user to either do a cord wrap or add scales of their own choosing. I have a few Becker Neckers that I added scales of Black Locust to which turned out very nice.

And perhaps this might shave a few bucks off the final price. Too, it might be cool to see what people do with the base blade. Then we would all have a similar blade, but it would also be personalized to a degree. Kumbaya....


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## tensixteen (Jan 26, 2008)

george tichbourne said:


> Sketches are fine but details like material, thickness, width, surface finish, overall length, blade length, and handle material are more important.
> 
> I like the last sketch from Nick, about 9 posts ahead of this one.
> 
> Have Nick detail the drawing and we have something to work with.


 
Here's a detailed drawing, and here are my suggestions for the materials:

Steel used: CPM S30V
Handle Slabe: Green Linen Micarta
Surface Finish: Machine Satin or Stonewashed
Thickness of blade: 2.5 /8 inch

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## schiesz (Jan 26, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> Here's a detailed drawing, and here are my suggestions for the materials:
> 
> Steel used: CPM S30V
> Handle Slabe: Green Linen Micarta
> ...



A few things:

1) If we are asking for a quote from George, he has stated before that he makes knives from 440C. 

2) 5/16" thick is very, very thick. Especially for a small/medium sized knife. I have folders that are this thick with liners and handles. 1/8" seems much more in line with what I am used to. 

3) Handles. I've been thinking about the handles quite a bit for the last few days. I'd like to see the CPF theme in the handles. I have been trying to come up with a way to do this, and the best that I have come up with so far is to use blue and yellow layered laminated dymondwood. I don't know how many knife shops out there would be equipped to put a CPF logo into the handle, so I have been looking for shops online that would CNC machine out the handles for use with a CPF logo of some kind. My thinking has been that we could have the handles rough finished except the part with the logo engraved, and then supply those to the knifemaker for finishing. 

Maybe the logo in the handle is a good idea, maybe not. I do like the idea of getting the CPF colors in there using the laminated wood. The other way to get the colors on the handle is with custom made micarta. I have not been able to find availability and pricing for this yet. Maybe George has some ideas for handle materials and/or a wayu to get the CPF logo in there. 


schiesz


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## george tichbourne (Jan 26, 2008)

Interesting, do the holes in the handle go right through or stop at the tang? If the holes are in the scales only we could use one of them to mount a logo under a clear epoxy lens.

Green micarta comes in two varieties, dark OD (kaki) or a more forest green shade. 

If this is going to be a neck knife the handle scales should be thinner, less than 1/4" (6 mm) each pinned and epoxied in place. The sheath would be kydex.

I do prefer 440C from a cost standpoint, the price window does not allow for S30V.

Why not incorprate a thong hole in the handle?

George


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## GhostReaction (Jan 26, 2008)

what would be the price point if the shown design made from cpmS30V?

Could I suggest 2 variants to the CPF first knife:
- The cheapest materials to hit the $100 budget cpf blade (approx.50 pcs)
- A similar design but with all the good stuff and a higher budget cap. (approx.20pcs)

The later option are for those who are really into blades.

Hopefully this will make everyone happy.

gentlemen please be reminded that we are in a custom forge thread, not on production blade thread.


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## schiesz (Jan 26, 2008)

george tichbourne said:


> Interesting, do the holes in the handle go right through or stop at the tang? If the holes are in the scales only we could use one of them to mount a logo under a clear epoxy lens.
> 
> Green micarta comes in two varieties, dark OD (kaki) or a more forest green shade.
> 
> ...



I think this design is for the steel only, so the holes would be through the steel. I do like, however, the idea of having a hole in the scales, without a hole in the steel, to place the name or logo for CPF. Perhaps one with clear epoxy with the name, and one on each side for glow epoxy or trits?

I personally like this design, does everyone agree on this general design for the knife?

schiesz


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## Monocrom (Jan 26, 2008)

schiesz said:


> I personally like this design, does everyone agree on this general design for the knife?
> 
> schiesz


 
I like the design. As for the logo, the simpliest solution is just to engrave the left side of the blade. 

Nothing wrong with 440C. Very rust resistant, holds an edge well, and generally easier to sharpen than S30V.


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## george tichbourne (Jan 26, 2008)

I will check the S30V price on Monday. At last check it was about 5 times the price of 440C but that was over a year ago.

George


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## schiesz (Jan 26, 2008)

Thanks for checking on this George. We flashaholics tend to me pretty technical, so we go for these new trends in blade steel just like we follow the LED trends. Any of the newer crucible steels, like CPM 154, CPM 3v, CPM S30v will go a long way to make a lot of us very happy. 

I have heard that the CPM 154 (not 154 CM) is not too bad to work, and finishes easier than the others. I don't have any first hand knowledge, but thats what I have read.

schiesz


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## Monocrom (Jan 26, 2008)

schiesz said:


> Thanks for checking on this George. We flashaholics tend to be pretty technical, so we go for these new trends in blade steel just like we follow the LED trends. Any of the newer crucible steels, like CPM 154, CPM 3v, CPM S30v will go a long way to make a lot of us very happy....
> 
> schiesz


 
Sadly, you're right.... 440C has a proven track record. If it wasn't for the demand for the "latest & greatest" in blade steels from their customers, I believe more custom Bladesmiths would use it.


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## schiesz (Jan 26, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Sadly, you're right.... 440C has a proven track record. If it wasn't for the demand for the "latest & greatest" in blade steels from their customers, I believe more custom Bladesmiths would use it.



I agree with you here too. I have a few knives in 440C (1975 Buck 110 is one of them) and they come close to my favorite steel (BG42) in edge retention.

Its really pretty similar to us with our LEDs, and especially like the bins of the Lux III's. Right now ill practically only consider a light with a Cree or Seoul in it, but if you put them up against my Lioncub with a T-bin Lux III there isn't much difference in actually use.

Back when Lux III was the king, I only used U bins for my lights, even though you could BARELY, if ever, tell the difference.

For this particular project, i'm fine with whatever steel is used, as long as its 440C, or BETTER.

schiesz


----------



## weedle256 (Jan 26, 2008)

tensixteen said:


>




I think the blade looks good but I also think the area where the choil is needs to be thicker... it just looks like a very weak area, especially with that 3/8" hole right in the middle of it 

Also, I'm not sure how comfortable that handle would be to use. the 'belly' part looks too rounded to hold onto for long.

I like the idea of the CPF logo on the handle... Perhaps the blue G-10 Sheet Stock on this page:
http://www.knifekits.com/store/s-pages/kk_store_1mainframe.htm?kk_products_handles_main.htm~smain

No idea if it would be possible, but once engraved, could it be filled with yellow epoxy (GID??) to match CPF?

A thought on getting more lumens out of the CPF knife, how about putting trit grooves along the spine of the handle? If they were deep enough they would protect the trits.

Edit:
I'd like a blade that is a bit thicker than normal... How about 3/16"?


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 26, 2008)

weedle256
3/16 of an inch thick blade sounds okay. my initial estimate of 2.5 / 8 of an inch was based on a custom Tom Mayo TNT blade which i had.
Here's an updated version of the design, in which the frontal hole element is modified as a hole in the handle slabs, so that it can be used to incorporate the CPF logo.

Handle Curves have been edited too, as per the last post about it being too rounded.







What do you guys think?

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 26, 2008)

Thanks Nick.

I like 3/16" for thickness, the choil at that thickness will help lock the knife into a kydex sheath nicely.

The single blind hole for the logo is great, the through holes and thong hole work well.

Pins might end up slightly different from the drawing but that is no big worry I hope.

This can be made up as a bare handled integral or with the micarta handle scales without affecting the design.

George


----------



## schiesz (Jan 26, 2008)

I must say I really like the current design. Nice job by the masses!

schiesz


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## Monocrom (Jan 26, 2008)

Don't forget to serial number each one. Each individual owner would be able to chime in with which one they got. If one is ever lost or stolen, it might help.


----------



## GhostReaction (Jan 26, 2008)

Nick you rock bro! I ll buy your coffee the next time we meet!!
the refine design is just plain awesome.

I was thinking if there is any space for blood groove.

Dammnn....
imagine.... green micarta scales and Devin Thomas Damascus for blade :rock:
$300??


----------



## weedle256 (Jan 26, 2008)

Just for my understanding...

Other than needing pin holes, why have any holes in the steel part of the handle? To reduce the weight??

And I don't think we want those pin holes right in the choil area... I want to be able to beat on this with a hammer and not have to worry about it breaking


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 26, 2008)

weedle256 said:


> Just for my understanding...
> 
> Other than needing pin holes, why have any holes in the steel part of the handle? To reduce the weight??
> 
> And I don't think we want those pin holes right in the choil area... I want to be able to beat on this with a hammer and not have to worry about it breaking


 
If this is going to be a neck knife, the less weight, the better.


----------



## weedle256 (Jan 26, 2008)

fair enough :twothumbs

A 7" necker? I guess need a bigger neck 

Anyway... I like the way this is looking!


----------



## Sigman (Jan 26, 2008)

I still like the drop point (the shorter design of course), but the other design is growing on me. I like the newer handle on the bottom pic as well....Lookin' good! :thumbsup:


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## GhostReaction (Jan 27, 2008)

You need a prybar! 


weedle256 said:


> Just for my understanding...
> 
> Other than needing pin holes, why have any holes in the steel part of the handle? To reduce the weight??
> 
> And I don't think we want those pin holes right in the choil area... I want to be able to beat on this with a hammer and not have to worry about it breaking



Tensixteen, I think Weed got a point on the pins at choil, it will weaken that area.


----------



## GhostReaction (Jan 27, 2008)

Pins at choil are removed, added 6 micro brass pins to secure. The handle scale at choil area are held with a philip like screws and tritium could be epoxy at the slots. Was thinking one side yellow and one side blue tritium 
a narrow blood groove added.




Kydex sheath with hollow rivets and cut out slots for bungee cord webbing,




Bungee cord webbing on kydex made specially for FLASHLIGHT. The slots could be used for molle or nylon straps to further secure flashlight


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

Thanks GR!!

Nice!

Here's a Tanto design aka Prybar...(just for fun)..haha.






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Don't forget to serial number each one. Each individual owner would be able to chime in with which one they got. If one is ever lost or stolen, it might help.


 
If they're going to be serial numbered, can i have the honour of having 001?

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

Here's another edit, with the blood groove incorporated. Also, for the handle slabs, they could be 2 pieces of micarta, fastened together via 3 nut & bolt combinations, as seen in this picture. What do you guys think?






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 27, 2008)

I mentioned moving the pins because I didn't like the double pins in the choil area myself. I would suggest two small pins 3/32" (approx 1.5 MM) along the center line of the knife and the thong hole lined with a stainless or brass tube. The purpose of the pins is to prevent handle epoxy shear in extreme temperature conditions.

The short length of the knife limits the amount of stress that can be put on it by prying and the lack of stress riser points in the design further strengthens the knife. The design is something that I would not hesitate using as a military pattern because of the apparent durability.

The only weak point is the hollow grind but even that can be improved on by watching the depth of grind and using a 14" contact wheel. An alternative is a convex grind but that would not be suitable in all conditions so I have ruled it out.

George


----------



## Sigman (Jan 27, 2008)

Not for or against, but is the blood groove needed? Just looks a little "busy" in that area...


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

Here's a top view to illustrate what i mean..






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 27, 2008)

No blood groove!


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

like this then...






To be honest, i'd rather have a screw on attachment like this because it gives the user the flexibility in deciding whether to leave the handle as just bare metal, or cord-wrap it, or to attach the micarta slabs. What do you guys think?

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## GhostReaction (Jan 27, 2008)

Ok no blood grooves :nana:


----------



## weedle256 (Jan 27, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> like this then...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wouldn't removable slabs mean that the lanyard hole could not be lined? I think the lining is pressed to fit???


----------



## RA40 (Jan 27, 2008)

Looking good guys...:thumbsup:

On the removable handles, the edge would have to be broken if used bare...thus it may not fit well with the handle slabs in that way. If you don't mind that slightly rounded edge, it is doable. Same with the lanyard hole, the edge would have to be counter sunk to not abrade the lanyard. 

I've tended to line my lanyard holes though there are makers who don't. The sleeved/lined lanyard hole does help in handle scale stability combined with pins.


----------



## weedle256 (Jan 27, 2008)

One more thing to think about...

Here in the republic of California, the grind on the top of a blade can not be sharp. Well, it can be, but if you get caught with it, you'll be in trouble.

At least that is what I was told when a friend of mine bought one


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 27, 2008)

CA isn't the only place that cannot accept a sharpened clip so basic design will not have one.

It appears that the design is carved in steel now so all that is to be resolved is the decision on what colour G10 that the handle will be.

Blue, kaki (OD) green or forest green.

I propose agreeing on a basic model then offering optional extras to cover personal preferance, ie bare handle, exotic wood handle, leather sheath for belt carry, sharpened clip and so on.


----------



## schiesz (Jan 27, 2008)

Personally, I like it. I think i'll take the last drawing Nick did and put up a survey to see how many people are interested. That way we can get some idea of how many we should try to make. This will help George determine pricing and know how much steel and other materials will be needed.

Here is a black and white logo I got from Sasha. I don't know if we can fit this much detail in the hole in the handle, but it might be possible. I need to print a scale image and see what we really have to work with.






schiesz


----------



## schiesz (Jan 27, 2008)

Edit * DBL post, sorry*

schiesz


----------



## weedle256 (Jan 27, 2008)

Given the number of shades of each of those colors, can you point us to samples to select from? 

The blue on knifekits matches the CPF blue pretty well.

http://www.knifekits.com/store/s-pages/kk_store_1mainframe.htm?kk_products_handles_main.htm~smain

but that has little to do with what we can get...


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jan 27, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Dunno about special handle colors, etc. but I'd be in for a mini-grip with laser-engraved "CPF" on it.


+1 I like it!
A fixed blade would be great too...........a neck knife!:thumbsup:


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

I did up some sketches with the CPF logo as provided by Schiesz. Here are some combinations i tried out.

What do you guys think?






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## schiesz (Jan 27, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> I did up some sketches with the CPF logo as provided by Schiesz.



A couple questions, a few just for George.

1) (George) Do you have the ability to laser (or otherwise) engrave the blade? For the logo and/or serialization. I would guess the numbers are doable but a pain, but it takes high dollar equipment to engrave a logo like that.

2) Do the holes in the handle go through the scales as well? I figured the scales would be solid, except for the thong hole and the proposed logo hole.

3) Does anyone have a problem with the scale color being blue? This is the CPF knife, after all.

4) (George) If we are able to find a logo that fits in the scale hole well and it readable, have you done this type of thing before? For instance, do you know what could be printed on to lay in the recess, and what type of epoxy (or whatever) would work well to cover it and stay clear? I am only asking this to see if we are trying to come up with something that has never been tried before and might not work.

I wonder if we axed the pill, and just used the text/font from the logo if it would be more readable in the handle hole. 

schiesz


----------



## Crenshaw (Jan 27, 2008)

Crenshaw


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

Hi Schiesz,

Actually i guess the logo could be etched on the blade, that would be easier to accomplish as compared to Laser-Engraving. As for the Handle-Scales, I think it would be nice if the holes went through the handles and scales, and this would also give the handle scales more grip to them, and finally, I think Blue scales would be awesome. Not only does it link the knife better to CPF, but blue scales would also set it apart from the Olive-Green handles that are the norm on many other knives.

Just my 2 cents,=)
Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## weedle256 (Jan 27, 2008)

Seems like the handle should be blue...

I'd prefer solid scales, except for the lanyard hole.

It'd be cool if we could laser etch just the logo text. Perhaps turn it 90 degrees and center it at the end of the slabs, in the choil area??


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 27, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> I did up some sketches with the CPF logo as provided by Schiesz. Here are some combinations i tried out.
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> ...


 
I'm really liking the one on the bottom.

Blue would seem to be the best color for handle slabs, since it's a CPF knife. 

All I ask is 2 things.... Since I chimed in about serializing each one, a low number would be greatly appreciated. And please let me pay with a money order.


----------



## schiesz (Jan 27, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> Actually i guess the logo could be etched on the blade, that would be easier to accomplish as compared to Laser-Engraving.



Just shows my ignorance here, I don't know anything about etching steel.

I like blue scales for the reasons already mentioned, no reason to have another knife like all the rest. And I like the handles with or without the holes. I think George will probably give us a good idea if this is feasible. 

schiesz


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## GhostReaction (Jan 27, 2008)

Does blue with yellow swirl G10 exist?

I believe that if serialized the 001 should go to Nick for coming up with such an awesome design.


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 27, 2008)

One last sketch before i head to school.

Here's a sketch with Dark Blue Handle slabs, one design with the handle holes, one without, and with the "Official CPF Blade" logo in it, without the pill.






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## GhostReaction (Jan 27, 2008)

The HOLES rock! its much nicer, grippier, lighter, you could weave paracord thru, and you could easily attach the blade to stuff with paracord when needed too!!

Nick get your A$$ to school! You wont want to be late!



tensixteen said:


> One last sketch before i head to school.
> 
> Here's a sketch with Dark Blue Handle slabs, one design with the handle holes, one without, and with the "Official CPF Blade" logo in it, without the pill.
> 
> ...


----------



## schiesz (Jan 27, 2008)

I've seen custom made blue with yellow swirl micarta, but I have not heard back on a price for it. Email and PM sent a few weeks ago.

I think its possible, but could be quite cost prohibitive on a large scale. Jantzsupply has blue and yellow laminated dymondwood that would look very nice on something like this, and is priced very reasonably. Here is a knife I made for my grandfather's friend as a gift, using a similar laminate that was blue and red:










schiesz


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## tensixteen (Jan 28, 2008)

Hi Guys,

Could i say that we have this as the final design? If so, here's a picture, together with the dimensions, so as to facilitate George's efforts.






Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## george tichbourne (Jan 28, 2008)

I have a trophy engraver a couple of blocks away who has laser engraved knives for me in the past, excellent work. Will put him on my list to contact today as well.

From a technical viewpoint the simple letters without the dark background is preferable so I will proceed on that premiss.

I would like the holes to go right through the tang and scales...easier to grip.

I like the blue myself.

I will scan a prototype blade to you tonight without the engraving.

Got to go to the shop and start grinding.

George


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## Monocrom (Jan 28, 2008)

I'm liking what I see in post #100.

If it's made, I'll take it. :twothumbs


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## schiesz (Jan 28, 2008)

I just posted a thread with a poll to start an interest list. This will give us a better idea of how many people are actually interested in buying one of these, and give George a number to shoot for in production. The poll is open for the next 2 weeks. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/187855

Thanks,

schiesz


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 28, 2008)

Sorry guys but today was absolute chaos in the shop, will shoot for scanned prototype blade tomorrow evening instead.

George


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## schiesz (Jan 28, 2008)

No problem George, thanks for all your hard work making this happen.

schiesz


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## Chronos (Jan 28, 2008)

tensixteen said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Could i say that we have this as the final design? If so, here's a picture, together with the dimensions, so as to facilitate George's efforts.
> 
> ...


OK, I am thrilled with this design! It looks great and I'm sure will be a wonderful too.

Great work on this one. You all should be proud of your efforts to date. :twothumbs


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 28, 2008)

Thanks guys, and George, no worries about it!!...thanks for the efforts!

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 29, 2008)

Great project !! I am quite in ...


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## Hallis (Jan 29, 2008)

As am I. I posted an idea in the other forum in responce to something Sasha said. 

shane


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## Monocrom (Jan 30, 2008)

If the knife ends up with some sort of official name.... For God's sake, don't call it "Combat Killer," or some other tacti-cool name that every mall ninja will drool over. :eeksign:


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## sunspot (Jan 30, 2008)

Hallis said:


> As am I. I posted an idea in the other forum in responce to something Sasha said.
> 
> shane


How about a link?


----------



## depusm12 (Jan 30, 2008)

I definitely like the look of the knife from post # 100. I would be in for 1.


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 30, 2008)

depusm12 said:


> I definitely like the look of the knife from post # 100. I would be in for 1.


 


+1:thumbsup:


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 30, 2008)

Here is the first scan of the prototype CPF forums knife.
I have highlighted the grind lines because they did not scan well/

The handle in this case is black linen micarta because I have some in stock. The front pin is solid stainless steel ( a possible location for stamping the #). The rear pin is a stainless thong tube. The handle is going to be epoxied in place as well as pinned. Handle thickness is just under 3/4" including the 3/16" blade.

Blue G10 has been located in the 1/4" thickness, delivery must be confirmed however.








Any questions please ask away.

George 
www.tichbourneknives.com
[email protected]
905 670 0200


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## mspeterson (Jan 30, 2008)

no pic, just a blue box?


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## george tichbourne (Jan 30, 2008)

OK This looks better. Here goes nothing.
George


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## schiesz (Jan 30, 2008)

I don't see anything, but i'm sure George will have it fixed up soon enough. I'm excited to see how this is looking!

**EDIT**Here is the picture I got from that link:





schiesz


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 30, 2008)

Darn computers!
Lets try again.
George


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 30, 2008)




----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 30, 2008)

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/...4587859638/a=120465585_120465585/t_=120465585

Not what I had in mind but this works .

Wish I knew what I was doing with this machine.
George


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi George,

Looks pretty good, but just some details that were missing...the finger choil needs to be more defined, and perhaps the thumb ramp needs to be longer, but shallower. Here's a picture to illustrate what i mean.







Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 30, 2008)

I agree with you Nick on all items.

This is why I usually make up prototypes for evaluation, usually for myself to be able to handle the knife and fine tune it.

My wife even liked this pattern and that is saying something.

I will retune it again tomorrow and try to rescan but I have to admit that computers and I don't always get along. I don't trust them.

Take care
George


----------



## schiesz (Jan 30, 2008)

CPF isn't co-operating with us very well right now 

I agree with Nick and George on both points. The choil area needs to be more defined, and I think the longer thumb ramp would be a welcome update as well.

It is nice to see a real prototype to help identify these things. I think it looks great overall though.

I am not sure I understand the line on the back of the blade in your picture Nick, are you requesting the 'swedge' part of the blade to be longer and/or more defined? 

George, is there any way you could take a picture next to a ruler to give us a better idea of the overall scale?

Thanks to everyone involved, especially George and Nick, for making this happen.

schiesz


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 30, 2008)

The change in the swedge will make a big difference in the overall look.

Schiesz, I can barely scan a picture now and you want to complicate it by adding a ruler? 

Will try to scan it over again tomorrow after changing the swedge and choil. The change in the ramp will have to wait until P2 is ground.

George


----------



## schiesz (Jan 30, 2008)

george tichbourne said:


> Schiesz, I can barely scan a picture now and you want to complicate it by adding a ruler?
> 
> Will try to scan it over again tomorrow after changing the swedge and choil. The change in the ramp will have to wait until P2 is ground.
> 
> George


 
Haha, ok George. No need to re-scan. 

Can you just tell us the overall length? Width of handle and blade?

Thanks,

schiesz


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi Schiesz,

I think the swedge should be longer, and thus more defined. I think it just needs to be ground longer.  Thanks George!...can't wait for the updated version's pictures..Thanks for making this happen.

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## Sigman (Jan 31, 2008)

Not having the 1st clue as to what it takes to make a knife at all...I can't believe how fast this project is going!  

We have a prototype ALREADY!! Hats off to all of you "Hands On Artists" (from paper to product)!! Granted we as a "team" have had some input (and that makes the blade more "personal"!), but you hands on guys deserve a huge :thanks: !!

HOWEVER, I guess we're not there yet...keep up the GREAT WORK!!


----------



## sunspot (Jan 31, 2008)

I agree with the choil and swedge improvement idea. The thumb ramp looks good as is. It’s looking great.
Is it just me or do the holes in the handle seem a bit large?
I do hope that the blue handle material will be close to CPF blue. I’ll pair the knife up with my CPF blue Arc-AAA.


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jan 31, 2008)

Yes a longer slightly shallower swedge will give it a bit more streamlined look. It's present profile strongly reminds me of a Bowie.
Taking user feedback into account is very very pleasing! 
154CM is my favorite but YMMV.


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi Sunspot,

The holes do look a tad bigger, but i think that doesn't really matter as it doesn't affect with the overall function of the blade. The only concern about the holes would be if it inhibits the choil from becoming more pronounced. We'll see what happens after George has addressed some of these issues.

Thanks George!!

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## sunspot (Jan 31, 2008)

A general knife question. I’m not up on the correct nomenclature of knife making but are the grooves on the “thumb rest(?)” called “file work”? I remember seeing that wording in knife ads.


----------



## schiesz (Jan 31, 2008)

'File work' is typically decorative patterns cut into the spine of the blade, or other metal parts (like liners on folders). I've heard a term for the grooves on thumb rests, but it is escaping me right now. Maybe 'jimping'? 

schiesz


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 31, 2008)

The thumb ramp is too pronounced. Not an issue if the knife is only going to be displayed. But I plan on using mine.


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 31, 2008)

Here is the address of the modified prototype. 

The clip has been lengthened. I cannot duplicate the curve that Nick has indicated at the handle end of the clip.

The choil has been rounded more like the drawing.

The thumb ramp has been diminished.

The apparent movement of the thumbramp is an illusion caused by shortening the handle scale.

The handle holes are the specified 3/4" diameter.

This one is missing the serrations on the thumb ramp.

The knife was cut from a bar of 3/16" X 1 1/2" X 7 1/4" barstock. I would like to increase the overall length to 7 1/2" by adding 1/4" to the handle for better overall appearance.

http://www2.snapfish.com/slideshow/...4588374969/a=120465585_120465585/t_=120465585

Now the bad news Blue G10 has been ruled out on health concerns but there is an attractive all blue Diamond wood handle material available which according to Janz looks like a blue saphire when polished.

George


----------



## schiesz (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi George, this one is looking good also. I am linking the picture again in a bigger size:






I've used the blue dymondwood from jantz and it looks nice. This is not a problem for me, but we need to see what everyone else thinks. 

I posted a few pics earlier in the thread of a folder I made using their wood.

schiesz


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi George,

Personally i think you've got it. For everyone, check out this comparison picture:






and you've managed to get the thumb ramp too. Needless to say, i like it. Just round the choil a little bit more, and i can say that it would be perfect.

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 31, 2008)

Oh, and George,

personally i think the current handle length is okay, looks wise. What do the others think?

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


----------



## george tichbourne (Jan 31, 2008)

I have a problem with the choil Nick, that is the smallest diameter grinder wheel that I have 1" diameter. If I can possibly do it I am staying away from setting up on the milling machine for time savings.

Moving the front pin back and up will allow the handle scale to be trimmed a little more and less curved. That might make adding the 1/4" unnecessary. Going to try that out.

George


----------



## tensixteen (Jan 31, 2008)

Hi George,

I understand what you mean. I'm not a knife maker myself, so this is just my speculation, but would it be more time-effective to use the milling machine since the quantity as is now is more than 20 pieces?

Cheers and Regards,
Nick=)


----------



## weedle256 (Jan 31, 2008)

I think you've matched the plan pretty well...

Having said that, I think the holes in the handle look too big and the handle does look a bit short 


Just curious, but what health concerns are there for blue G-10?


----------



## Crenshaw (Feb 1, 2008)

Thats a nice knife, definetly in for one if i can get one...

Crenshaw


----------



## schiesz (Feb 1, 2008)

weedle256 said:


> Just curious, but what health concerns are there for blue G-10?



In general, G10 (any color) contains fiberglass and should be worked only with a respirator. The dust created from cutting and shaping knife handles is not pleasant stuff.

schiesz


----------



## Cuso (Feb 1, 2008)

In hand pictures?


----------



## Sigman (Feb 1, 2008)

Does micarta present the same health concerns as G10?


----------



## schiesz (Feb 1, 2008)

I don't see all the warnings with micarta that always accompany G10 when you get it from a knife supply company, but I can tell you it makes just as nasty of a smell and dust when cutting and shaping. I think its mostly the fiberglass content in the G10 that causes the additional concerns.

schiesz


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Feb 1, 2008)

Looking good. 
I can't see anything well enough to have an opinion on the blue of the handle. 
However I do think the holes in the handle seem too large. Not sure on the handle length as I'm more concerned about blade balance and how it fits in the hand. The blade does look pretty beefy so adding a bit onto the handle may help with that. 
Speaking of the beefy blade it seems that the prototype has a bit of belly to it toward the tip instead of being relatively straight out from the handle as the drawing is. My personal preference is for straighter lines (tanto/ wharncliffe guy here).


----------



## Monocrom (Feb 1, 2008)

schiesz said:


> .... I've used the blue dymondwood from jantz and it looks nice. This is not a problem for me, but we need to see what everyone else thinks....
> schiesz


 
One question about the wood.... Is there an odor to it?

When I used to work as a high-end pen salesman, we had a line of custom wood pens that weren't too popular. Models were either laminated wood, or wood with colors mixed in. The latter had a distinctive odor that stayed on one's fingers, after gripping the pen. I'm hoping the wood from Jantz doesn't have a similar odor.


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## Sigman (Feb 1, 2008)

PhantomPhoton said:


> ...I do think the holes in the handle seem too large...seems that the prototype has a bit of belly to it toward the tip instead of being relatively straight out from the handle as the drawing is. My personal preference is for straighter lines...


I agree with these comments, especially about trimming down the belly a little and the holes could be a bit smaller? :thinking:


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## george tichbourne (Feb 1, 2008)

There are many imitators of Dymondwood and some are down and dirty. I have never noticed a problem working it or an after smell, there is some odour while sanding it like any wood.

Nick can you scale that choil area with your drawing program, I think the curve of the choil should be about 1" but there seems to be a setback at the bottom of the choil. If I could see the center point of that curve it would be helpful as well as the diameter.

The problem with the G10 other than the odour is the fact that you are left with a fine glass fibre dust that causes severe inflammation of the skin and respiratory tract. My wife has asthma and the dog would not do well in that sort of environment either so she has decided that we will NOT use G10 after talking with the owner of Jantz supply who read her the OSHA safety report on it.

Micarta has a similar resin but the filler is paper, or cloth.

The belly in the blade goes away when sharpening the blade. This one is not heat treated or even finished on the other side for that fact, just a rough grind. It is just a work in progress right now for discussion.

As a neck, knife weight is a consideration, so the holes in the handle are required to achieve as light a knife as possible. I like them this size.

George


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## sunspot (Feb 1, 2008)

First, let me say I would buy this knife as is. As for a personal preference, I would like a choil closer in like the line drawing. The holes could be a bit smaller and because G10 is out, micarta would be better than dymondwood. As far as the length, as is or a ¼” longer is good either way although a longer handle might be nice as George suggested.
Just my 2 cents


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## Bloodnut (Feb 1, 2008)

George,

Please comment on how the prototype feels in the hand. Balance-wise how does it feel? Does your hand tend to "sink in" to the grip? Thumb ramp placement feels good? 

In terms of steel. I understand this is still up for debate. Because you work 440C mostly, are more confident in your ability to effectively heat-treat that than newer wonder steels? Would it complicate things too much to offer this in 1095 in addition to whatever else?

Has a finish been defined? Bead blasted?

IMO, you are in a position to weigh in heavily since you, literally, have the blade in hand.

BTW, you are a saint for taking this on. A knife designed by committee... whoddathunkit!


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## Sigman (Feb 1, 2008)

Bloodnut said:


> ...BTW, you are a saint for taking this on.


Indeed!! :rock: :thumbsup:


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## London Lad (Feb 1, 2008)

I'm in !


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## george tichbourne (Feb 1, 2008)

I am not worried about other metals, it is just that each metal has design characteristics that must be avoided for best performance and I would not like to deliver something that I am not completely comfortable with.

Heat treating is not a consideration because I use a very large aerospace qualified heat treater who I trust completely.

I was concerned about handle length, given that I have wide hands, but it feels good in the hand. Slightly handle heavy but with a blade this size it is unavoidable but not uncomfortable.

Blade finish was specified as brushed so that is what is shown. Unfortunately I am not a very good computer type and the scan is very rough, perhaps I can get a photo today.

The worst of the snowstorm appears to be over so I am off to the shop.

George


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 4, 2008)

Instead of #'s has anyone given thought to putting on our CPF screen names?

?


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## george tichbourne (Feb 4, 2008)

No, I can stamp 2 or 3 digit numbers neatly enough but screen names would not be practical.....The alternative of laser etching would take the knife above the $150 window.


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 4, 2008)

Oh would not of suggested it if I had realized you were stamping the digits.
Thanks for getting back with a comment though!


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## tensixteen (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi George,

Any updates on the prototype?:twothumbs

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## george tichbourne (Feb 5, 2008)

Nick, everything has been on hold for the last three days because I have had some medical problems and have had to change heart medication which can have some adverse side effects so I have been staying away from the grinders until it works it's way through the system.

I will get back on the phones tomorrow and do a little grinding to see how it goes. Should have a final price this week.


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## Kiessling (Feb 5, 2008)

george ... get well first. In no way should you feel under pressure from our little group here. We can wait. Get well first !!!
bernie


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## schiesz (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi George, 

We've got plenty of time on this, just make sure you take care of yourself. 

Thanks for all of your hard work so far.

schiesz


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## Cuso (Feb 5, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> george ... get well first. In no way should you feel under pressure from our little group here. We can wait. Get well first !!!
> bernie


Big +1 , take care...


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## tensixteen (Feb 5, 2008)

Hi George,

Sorry to hear that..Hope you get better soon. Take care of your health.

Cheers and Regards,
Nick


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## PhantomPhoton (Feb 6, 2008)

George, take your time; we'll still be here. :wave:
Hope everything clears up. Thank you for your dedication to our "little" project.


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## Sgt. LED (Feb 6, 2008)

I have other custom blades in the works, not in a rush on any of them since I am in the middle of my "indoors" season. Feel better pal!


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## schiesz (Feb 13, 2008)

Anyone interested in the CPF knife project, please see this thread, and contact George Tichbourne with your contact information.

schiesz


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