# older car headlights dimmer than current version?



## picard (Dec 12, 2006)

Do you notice older generation 1990s cars head lights dimmer than headlights in latest car models? I am just curious if I am the only one notice it.


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## IsaacHayes (Dec 12, 2006)

Mine aren't. Mine are brighter than a LOT of car on the road. I have 4 bulbs, dedicated reflectors for the lows and highs, instead of the newer one reflector and bulb with dual filaments. My lows light up the road brighter and farther than other cars with their lights on high! I know 4 people that drive with their brights on all the time because they are so dim. I turn on my highs however and it's quite impressive.

Now cars have HID and projector lenses, which are brighter than mine, or at least more focused.


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## Norm (Dec 12, 2006)

:candle: Did you ever own a 6 volt VW Beetle. To get the lights brighter than a birthday candle you had to run a relay and very heavy cable from the battery direct to the lights. :candle:
Norm


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## Brighteyez (Dec 12, 2006)

Anyone who drove a 6V Beetle in the U.S. would be showing their age 
They were positive ground too weren't they?



Norm said:


> :candle: Did you ever own a 6 volt VW Beetle. To get the lights brighter than a birthday candle you had to run a relay and very heavy cable from the battery direct to the lights. :candle:
> Norm


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## bfg9000 (Dec 12, 2006)

Corrosion, man. It's inevitable (unless ya use Progold...).


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## Norm (Dec 12, 2006)

Brighteyez said:


> Anyone who drove a 6V Beetle in the U.S. would be showing their age
> They were positive ground too weren't they?



As far as I remember they were neg. ground. You may be thinking of older English cars pos. ground was fairly common over there I think the Germans had a little more sense when it came to building cars.
Norm


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## picard (Dec 12, 2006)

IsaacHayes said:


> Mine aren't. Mine are brighter than a LOT of car on the road. I have 4 bulbs, dedicated reflectors for the lows and highs, instead of the newer one reflector and bulb with dual filaments. My lows light up the road brighter and farther than other cars with their lights on high! I know 4 people that drive with their brights on all the time because they are so dim. I turn on my highs however and it's quite impressive.
> 
> Now cars have HID and projector lenses, which are brighter than mine, or at least more focused.



where did you get dedicated reflectors? Did you build this headlight set by yourself? where did you buy dual filament bulb?


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## bfg9000 (Dec 12, 2006)

Captain, some cars since 1958 have come equipped with 4 headlights. 4 reflectors isn't necessarily better; those GM trucks and the Camaro used really tiny rectangular headlights that performed poorly. And GM has a bad habit of turning off the low beams when the brights are turned on.

Dual filament isn't necessarily bad if it allows a much bigger reflector to be used (not for tight focus but to minimize absorption losses from dirt). And some cars actually use the H4 as both a high beam and fog light, with a separate low beam.

The point is, halogen headlight bulbs haven't really changed much since the 90s. Unfaceted lenses appeared in ~1990 and the H7 was introduced in 1995 but nothing else has really changed...


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## 270winchester (Dec 12, 2006)

it may be a few reasons from what I have seen:

1. the wear of the wires that builds resistance in the lights and not deliver enough current to the bulb.

2. peopel aren't always examine their light bulbs like we do, when I first reaplaced the light bulb in my car it was black, but still worked. so a 10+ year old car could very well have their original bulbs and thus dim as heck.

3. many cars on the road have plastic front lens. over time the heat and elements cause scratched and oxidation to the lens and imprede light output. I am lucky because my car has a glass front lens but newer cars typically don't have them anymore.

4. crappy OEM bulbs that are bad to start with.

5. the 9004 series lights (such as on many economy cars of the 90s) have a very narrow (vertical) beam and thus could look very dim from anywhereo ther than where the beam is aimed at.

6. the dual beam lights are limited in wattage. My Dad's 05 Camry has two seperate module for low and high, so when you tun on high both low and high are on. whereas the older cars are limted to say, 55w low OR 65 w high, but not both.

7. your lights are brighter than most peoples. In this case don't mess with success.


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## tebore (Dec 12, 2006)

I notice that lights get dimmer as they age. The Lens gets dulled by weather and what not. The wires get more resistance same with the relay. 

My Silverstars have dimmed, I've noticed just the other day when I compared them to a new set. My liking is using 9005 Silverstars modded to fit 9006.


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## Brighteyez (Dec 12, 2006)

Speaking which, did you ever get those new lights installed into your car? And which ones were they? I've been thinking of replacing the bulbs in my truck just for grins, and looking for some suggestions.



270winchester said:


> 6. the dual beam lights are limited in wattage. My Dad's 05 Camry has two seperate module for low and high, so when you tun on high both low and high are on. whereas the older cars are limted to say, 55w low OR 65 w high, but not both.


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## 270winchester (Dec 12, 2006)

Hey Brighteyez:

I bought two sets of bulbs, one is the Sylvania Xtravision for 25 for two, and a set of Silver stars, which are more expensive.

At the beginning I liked the SIlver star more, since the light is white and not blue at all.

But after the rain season started, one day I drove onto Bear Creek road to avoid the traffic on 17 and no matter how hard I tried, I COULD NOT SEE the road with the Silver Stars. it appeared that the wet, freshly paved road readily absorbed and scattered the light.

So since then I switched back to the xtravisions. They are a little yellower but I can see the road in rain and fog much better, and there is quite a bit of fog on the coastal areas, especially during the winter, so I'm sticking to them for now. They are still pretty white but I feel is a better bulb for California's rain season. 

The Sylvannias are a regularly stocked item in Kragen if I remember correctly.

*disclaimer: they may not necessarily *look* all that much brighter, YMMV I have since installed a set of foglights aimed low at the ground for driving in rain and fog. 

Hope this helps.



Brighteyez said:


> Speaking which, did you ever get those new lights installed into your car? And which ones were they? I've been thinking of replacing the bulbs in my truck just for grins, and looking for some suggestions.


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## IsaacHayes (Dec 13, 2006)

picard, my car uses 9006 and 9005 bulbs. That means 4 bulbs. 2 highs, 2 lows. Each has it's own reflector. It came stock this way.

Some cars have only 2 bulbs, and 2 reflectors. One filament per bulb. The bulbs have dual filaments (one for high one for low) and thus they share the same reflector. When you turn on the high beam, it uses the same reflector as the low beam.. The reflector has to be a compromise for both beams..

Thus my car has a totally seperate reflector for the high bulbs, and that way each reflector is tuned to the high or low bulb, resulting in great throw.


Anyways, just from what I've seen typically a 4 bulb setup is better than a 2 bulb. There are camaros/etc with tiny 4 bulb setup, but usualy headlights arent that small!

And yeah some cars (not mine though! woohoo!) will have their headlights yellow or fog up/oxidize with age. I know a lot of brands of cars that do this, even only 2-3 years old. They don't put the right additives to the plastic and then the UV attacks them and that's gotta kill your headlight output. And yes bulbs do put out less light with age.


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## eluminator (Dec 16, 2006)

270winchester said:


> But after the rain season started, one day I drove onto Bear Creek road to avoid the traffic on 17 .



I'm not familiar with Bear Creek road but I traveled route 17 a few times in dry weather and that was enough for me. In the rain? Forget about it. I'd need more than good headlights. You can't see more than 10 feet around those sharp curves anyway.


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## dw51 (Dec 19, 2006)

> it may be a few reasons from what I have seen:
> 
> 1. the wear of the wires that builds resistance in the lights and not deliver enough current to the bulb.
> 
> ...


 

+1 on the plastic lense oxidation. BTW, the plastic lenses can be cleaned with various cleaners (plastic cleaner, simichrome polish, etc.) to improve things a bit, but they tend to oxidize again pretty quickly.

Does anyone know how to retrofit a different bulb in a vehicle equipped with 9004's? I didn't realize they had those beam characteristics.

Finally, are Silverstars worth the money? I've been reluctant to shell out $35 for little or no improvement.


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## Canuke (Dec 19, 2006)

dw51 said:


> +1 on the plastic lense oxidation. BTW, the plastic lenses can be cleaned with various cleaners (plastic cleaner, simichrome polish, etc.) to improve things a bit, but they tend to oxidize again pretty quickly.



Confirmed on my GF's roommate's old Ford Taurus circa early 90's. It looks as if the headlights were smoked in :sick2:


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## Tooner (Dec 28, 2006)

dw51 said:


> Finally, are Silverstars worth the money? I've been reluctant to shell out $35 for little or no improvement.


 
I'm with 270 winchester on the silver stars. Not worth the money in my opinion. I didn't find that they helped me see any better when I installed them in my wife's car. They cost alot more, and they don't last nearly as long as the OEM type lamps. One burnt out in less than 6 months at which point I re-installed the originals. I know some people swear by them. I have read that one really needs to upgrade the wiring harness on most cars to take advantage of of the SS.

BTW member Flakey did a really nice write up with photos on how to polish the plastic headlight lens here. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/105648&highlight=headlight+polishing


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## 270winchester (Dec 28, 2006)

dw51 said:


> Does anyone know how to retrofit a different bulb in a vehicle equipped with 9004's? I didn't realize they had those beam characteristics.



the long answer is yes with a but. The 9004 is close to the H4 bulb, also called 9003 I think, and the only difference is the socket shape and wattage. the 9003/H4 is rated, and also wired, for higher wattage. But, the focal point of the 9003 is different from that of the 9004 enough such that the dremel work and the wiring up grade would give you not that much improvement over just upgrading the wiring along, the reflector housing of the 9004 is generally not optimized of taking advantage of the higher powered bulbs. the 9003/H4 is known to produce a good amount of output as more popularly known as the bulb in the THor "15 million" spotlights.

Then again I'm one of the wierd people that see better with 9003s than HIDs.

Since we are on the topic, I think the reason why we see so many 9004s on the road is because 9003 was not legal until 1992 and it took auto makers quite a few years to catch on. But that;s a whole other can of worms that draws a lot of grief from owners of autos from that era.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 28, 2006)

It's not all right here in front of me, so don't take this as gospel!

My 1990 F350 had some pretty groddy lenses. One cleaned up pretty good, but the other stayed milky.

Either 9006 or 9007 can be easily dremel modded to fit where 9004 goes. 6 or 7 (I'd have to go to store and look at 'em again) has something like 10W over the 9004. It made a difference in the Ford.

My Dodge Ram on the other hand has HEADLIGHTS! To get home requires nearly 1.5 miles of very dark pavement with NO real ambient light. The Ram puts down a NICE beam with nice ditch coverage!

Anyhow back to the 9004 mod. I need to do something with Dads 1991 F150. So I'll report back and TRY to provide pics when I do!


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## 270winchester (Dec 28, 2006)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> It's not all right here in front of me, so don't take this as gospel!
> 
> My 1990 F350 had some pretty groddy lenses. One cleaned up pretty good, but the other stayed milky.
> 
> ...



FIY 9006 is the low beam on the 2-lamp setup, high being the 9005 so you may be looking at the 9007. but please keep us updated. What I'm concerned about is the reflector for 9004 may not work properly with 9003, 9007, and others, and the wiring for the 9004 will have to be upgraded if you decide to do the dremel thing.

I'm gonnna head to Kragen and get myself a set of Hella 550 today to replace my current fog lights. an extra 110 watts of power will be good for the soul.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 28, 2006)

In the Ford F350 I mentioned, the reflector didn't matter much as the lense was WAY less than clear!

In something like my Ram, I would only go with the type it came with as it has a VERY nice spread!

And at least 25,000 miles of one 9007 and one 9004 with no wire mods was no problem.

I'm going to try and do something with Dads truck Saturday.

The car (Lincoln Town Car) is nowhere near my Ram, but not THAT bad so nothing there.


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## JimmyM (Dec 28, 2006)

Norm said:


> As far as I remember they were neg. ground. You may be thinking of older English cars pos. ground was fairly common over there I think the Germans had a little more sense when it came to building cars.
> Norm


Help me out here. Aside from compatibility issues today. Why would a negative ground be better than a positive ground?


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## TXArsonCop (Dec 29, 2006)

First post and I get to help enlighten you folks! Bad, overused pun obviously intended...

You folks should REALLY check out Daniel Stern's website

He's got as much info as ya'll are going to want and maybe a little more on which bulbs are best. He also advises rewiring the lighting circuit, using relays and such.

I upgraded the plastic, crappy headlights on my '96 S-10 to Euro (don't tell DOT!) glass housings and better bulbs in 2000, (_might_ have been 9004s). I also rewired everything. Lighting was *greatly *improved, REALLY liked the Euro housing light pattern. Razor sharp cut-off on the left sides of the housings towards oncoming traffic with an angle up toward the right corner to extend the light pattern on the right side of the road. *NEVER* once was "brighted" by oncoming traffic by the time I sold the truck in 2005.

I bought my stuff from him because I didn't want to spend a bunch of time searching for the individual pieces, ya'll may want to do different.

bill


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## Nell (Dec 29, 2006)

Norm said:


> As far as I remember they were neg. ground. You may be thinking of older English cars pos. ground was fairly common over there I think the Germans had a little more sense when it came to building cars.
> Norm



Yes they were neg. ground. But don't forget the Germans also used two 6V when some went to 12V. That might have been a size issue though.


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## Nell (Dec 29, 2006)

Very interested in how 9006 and or 9007 can be modified into 9004 sockets. Those 9004 were the worst bulbs ever. 

Speaking of bulbs, I use Osram H4, not Sylvania H4. They are the same company, but the Osrams are vastly superior than the Sylvanias. Love those bulbs. The Osram line was manu. for Europe. I picked up a few sets when I was there. 

If you really want all the juice to the bulbs, you have to upgrade wires and relays. 



PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> It's not all right here in front of me, so don't take this as gospel!
> 
> My 1990 F350 had some pretty groddy lenses. One cleaned up pretty good, but the other stayed milky.
> 
> ...


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## IsaacHayes (Dec 29, 2006)

I was driving home last night and amazed how huge and bright of an area my lows lit up. Oh yeah they were always good but I took some 9005(the high bulbs) and dremeled on the tab so they fit where my lows go (9006) and also dremed out the tab inside them to prevent the wire connector from connecting, and so I have highs in my low and high beam reflectors. No one has bright lighted me in over a year, and I've even checked them and they aren't anything like an SUV shining in your eyes. They are a lot whiter and brighter than the stock lows. Maybe not a whole lot brighter, but mainly more whiter. There could be legal issues with this though if you are involved in an accident, so I don't recommend doing this.  My lenses have diffusers stock in them so the bulb isn't blinding to drivers either, since the highs lack a black tip.


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## 270winchester (Jan 21, 2007)

Tell my car that its headlights are dim after 15 years of faithfull service....recently stolen and recovered!!!


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