# I have been thinking about this for the past few days



## Ilikeshinythings (Mar 6, 2006)

I know it is technically impossible because of many out lying factors, 
BUT what if headlights were red instead of yellow/white, bright white, blue, and even Inova XO3-like as some bimmer headlights have become. From what I have seen people say in the forums Red is a much more powerful, yet easier on the eye--color than any of the whites. Who knows maybe the standard of the future is different than what it is now. I don't think red yellow and green will every disappear as intersection colors, but I think an intense orange would be a better color for taillights. Call me crazy I did have a crazy weekend so maybe it's just too late/early to be awake?


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## Dr_Joe (Mar 6, 2006)

I strongly agree................................It *is *clearly too late/early to be awake !  
 
Considering I'm awake too, it actually makes some sense the more I think about it :thinking: 
 
Obviously I need to go to sleep ! :sleepy:


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## Ilikeshinythings (Mar 6, 2006)

I forgot to mention I think it would be important that the headlights were projector lights. They would have to have to be very clearly defined but I think the effect on the eyes of the person on the opposite side of the road would be a pleasant experience compared to a high powered white light coming towards you. Wouldn't the red be able to make out shapes in the dark better too since it would just be black on red instead of green/silver/white/blue and all the other colors of the rainbow your eyes try to adjust to with white headlights? Time to go to school. Maybe cops could benefit from switching between white and red headlights...high powered red for pursuit. Now I want to make a red LED flashlight


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 6, 2006)

The first thing that comes to mind is the psychologoical angle. People are used to seeing red as the rear of a vehicle and amber or orange or white as the front. Instant hazard recognition could be impaired. The second thing is color rendering of signs and such. Third, it's not needed. Go to Daniel Stern Lighting and poke around. These are FANTASTIC headlights that he sells, along with excellent information. The European beam pattern is far better than the US garbage most people are used to, and allows for bright white lights without blinding. Many new car headlights are based on the European beam, while being different enough to comply with US regulations. The only downfall is that proper aiming is absolutely necessary, and misaiming can be decidedly dangerous.


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## Dr_Joe (Mar 6, 2006)

Better "hot-wire" technology is always welcome, but I still prefer a properly focused and aimed HID


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## Ilikeshinythings (Mar 6, 2006)

I agree for sure that it would pose many risks and there are a lot of factors. I have some PIAA ultra whites on my focus and they do a great job at night..they are bright white almost purple at times. I definitely like the look of HID projectors or xenon projectors on a lot of european cars...they would be my number one choice but if we had done it differently from the start--and if we had the technology we have now to make lights that insanely powerful, do you think we we would see better at night using a high powered properly focused red projector?


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## spock (Mar 7, 2006)

just a small comment. few years back, some college did a study on perceived night distance using red, green, and blue lights. people had to judge how far they were from these simulated tail lights. red was judged to be further away than it actually was. green was judged to be the most accurate distance. blue was judged to be closer than it actually was. their conclusion: the safest tail light color was green, especially for rear end collisions. this did not take into consideration factors such as road conditions, tires, etc.. this summer i am going to see if i can duplicate these results on a small scale.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 7, 2006)

Dr. Joe-

I'm with ya on the HIDs, but like you said, only properly installed and aimed HIDs with the proper reflector. Around here it's common for ricers to put DS2 "conversion" bulbs with an H4 base in a housing meant for an incandescent H4, and then blind the beejeezus out of everyone and think they're cool. I have euro-beams in my MR2 with 90/130w bulbs. Hella Micro DE foglights with 100w bulbs, although frankly with the euro-beam headlights I don't really need foglights at all. Next up would probably be a custom built setup with Hella 90mm HID modules. It's on the list!

ILikeShineyThings-

I don't follow your logic at all. Human eyes are meant to see sunlight. How could seeing red be better? I know that personally, monochromatic light of any color tends to take away my depth perception; absolutely disasterous while driving. HIDs are the best because they perform the best, not because they look cool. I'm glad you're happy with your Piaa's. Do the bulbs have a blue coating on them?

Cheers. :buddies:


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## jtr1962 (Mar 7, 2006)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> I don't follow your logic at all. Human eyes are meant to see sunlight. How could seeing red be better? I know that personally, monochromatic light of any color tends to take away my depth perception; absolutely disasterous while driving.


I'll also add that it's already been proven that the yellowish light from sodium vapor streetlights actually takes away your peripheral vision, leading to the so-called tunnel effect. I don't know if the same would occur with red light, but considering that red and yellow aren't terrible far apart spectrally it's a possibility. The thing with red (or any other monochromatic) light is that many details simply will not show up at all. Imagine a situation where a person wearing clothes with no red in them is crossing a dark street with, say, a background of mostly green vegetation. Both the vegetation and the person will appear very dark, almost indistinct from one another.


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## Ilikeshinythings (Mar 7, 2006)

Ya you guys are right. but maybe green taillights are the wave of the future . I guess they would be red when the brake was depressed and green when the brake wasn't depressed. How cool would that be? Oh yeah and my PIAAs are coated half with blue and half with purple. I actually bought some bulbs for my jetta a couple years ago off e-bay for 15 bucks and they ended up frying the wires so I went to offroad wearhouse and bought these for 75 bucks a piece and they work like a charm on my focus ZX3 2.3 litre.


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## greenlight (Mar 8, 2006)

Taillights are already red.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 8, 2006)

Ilikeshinythings said:


> Ya you guys are right. but maybe green taillights are the wave of the future . I guess they would be red when the brake was depressed and green when the brake wasn't depressed. How cool would that be? Oh yeah and my PIAAs are coated half with blue and half with purple. I actually bought some bulbs for my jetta a couple years ago off e-bay for 15 bucks and they ended up frying the wires so I went to offroad wearhouse and bought these for 75 bucks a piece and they work like a charm on my focus ZX3 2.3 litre.


 
Man, $75 EACH?  Glad you're happy with them, I sure as hell wouldn't be. Do they claim 55 watts = 85 watts, too?


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## Ilikeshinythings (Mar 8, 2006)

Greenlight--Thanks a lot coach for clarifying that taillights are already red. I was referring to the green being added to the taillights as a standard for GO and red being kept as a standard for slow down kinda like a stoplight, comprendes? It is probably a stupid idea but you don't need to make ******* outta me! :-D

Bomber--Ya my headlights were 75 each but they claim 125 watts from them. They're very bright..some people in shorter cars flash their brights at me and I have to let 'em know that i dont have my high's on.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 8, 2006)

ILST-

I'm glad you're happy with your headlights. Look into Hella, Narva, or Cibie bulbs sometime. You won't be able to run a 130w Narva bulb with your stock wiring like you can with your Piaa's, but once you've upgraded your wiring I think you'll be very pleased.

Along with your green taillight idea; here in Oregon it's legal to have a "Rear Mounted Lighting System." This consists of red, yellow, and green lights. Green is lit when the accelerator pedal is being pushed, red is lit when the brake pedal is being pushed, and yellow is lit when you are coasting and neither the accelerator nor brake pedal is being pushed.

Cheers! :buddies:


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## eluminator (Mar 10, 2006)

Maybe you should think for a few more days.

Red lights would work fine if everything was red. Unfortunately you can't see blue or green objects when you illuminate them with red light. They would appear black.

Blue things are blue because they reflect blue light and absorb everything else. Same thing with green object or any other color.

If you illuminate anything but red objects with red light they don't reflect the light so they appear black , which is the absence of light.

White light is the best because it contains all wavelengths or colors, and so can illuminate anything but black objects.

Before you replace your headlights with red ones, you ought to try illuminating your home with red lights, and get a red flashlight. If red light works fine, then I'll stand corrected. But I wouldn't bet on it.


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## Ilikeshinythings (Mar 11, 2006)

Thanks for the insight Eluminator. I wonder if there is anymore possible modifications we can do to headlights. Xenon HID projector headlights seem like they can not be topped. I guess maybe multiple high powered LEDs may work better possibly but I have never seen LEDs used as headlights. I can see why a monocolor headlight would cause problems for sure. I wonder what's the next big thing! Anybody have any ideas?


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## jtr1962 (Mar 11, 2006)

Ilikeshinythings said:


> I wonder what's the next big thing! Anybody have any ideas?


My short to midterm guess would be that eventually you'll have the windshield functioning as a night vision system, and instead of or perhaps in conjunction with conventional headlights you'll have infrared emitters. These will of course be LED, and there will really be no inherent limits on output since they can't blind drivers.

Longer term (meaning 15 to 20 years out) we're probably moving to autonomous cars which drive themselves (the insurance companies are pushing for this as soon as it becomes technically feasible), so headlights/tailights (and driver's licenses) will likely be moot as the cars use other means to stay on the roads. Probably they'll follow magnets embedded in the roads for guidance, and use radar to avoid collisions with other vehicles or objects. Probably cars will still have lights, but only so pedestrians can see them. As such, they won't need to project a bright beam on the road.


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## Ilikeshinythings (Mar 11, 2006)

Awesome. Yah I have heard about the idea of car's driving themselves via magnets and such. I am just wondering if all this satellite technology we may have is going to increase the risk of brain tumors. I'm already skepticle about Cell phones because they came out so fast and became such a huge part of our lives that they didn't have time to do studies on them before they blew up. Hopefully this does not prove true 30 years down the road. But that will be something else when cars drive themselves eh!?


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 11, 2006)

Cadillac already has a night vision system like JTR mentioned available.

Hella's Dynvaview system turns the beam of light to follow corners as you drive; as do several OEM headlights. Audi had a prototype with LED headlights.

Having a computer drive for you would be BORING.

Cheers. :buddies:


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## jtr1962 (Mar 12, 2006)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Having a computer drive for you would be BORING.


It might be boring if you enjoy driving, but it'll be a heck of a lot safer, which is why the insurance companies are pushing it, plus it'll allow greatly increased traffic speeds on limited access highways. There are so many driver distractions these days that manual driving just can't be made safe, plus the average level of driving competence is way down. Additionally, self-driven cars will be a boon for those physically unable to drive, those who just don't want to, and for parents of the go (i.e. your car can pick your kid up at school and otherwise bring them places by itself). I'm 100% sure it this will be done, it's only a matter of when. In two generations driving a car yourself will be seen as a quaint throwback to another era, much as hand cranks to start the engine are today. I only wish we could do this today since I'm sick of all these idiot drivers who seemingly got their licenses from a gumball machine.

I'm quite sure there will be driving clubs where people can manually drive older cars on closed courses just for the fun of it. That would be a heck of a lot more fun than simply piloting a vehicle from point A to point B at street legal speeds. I personally consider regular driving boring as hell which is why I never got my license. First time I went on a freeway when I was practising driving I accelerated up to what I considered a comfortable speed (traffic was very light so I had nothing to gauge my speed by). I looked down and saw the speedo hovering around the 100 mph mark. It was then that I knew there was no way I could deal with "normal" driving dumbed down to the level of the least common denominator so I didn't bother finishing the process of getting my license.

Interestingly, this is one of those ideas, like smoking restrictions, where there will initially be quite a bit of resistance, but which once implemented will have people wondering why we didn't do it sooner. To go from 50,000 annual deaths and 2 million injuries to virtually zero would provide the nation a huge savings. Better yet, it'll put all those ambulance-chasing car accident tort lawyers right out of business. That's certain to get the general public's support.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 12, 2006)

JTR-

Since you don't drive, I don't think you understand just what driving(as opposed to merely operating) a car that you truly love is like. There's a reason my daily driver is a '94 MR2 Turbo that has just enough cargo capacity for my Visa card, requires premium gas, and for most purposes is completely impractical. It's a freaking blast to drive, even at the speed limit in town. Out of town on a windy country road, it's nearly orgasmic. :nana: 

With that proviso, I agree with you 125%. There are people on the road whom I wouldn't trust to successfully and safely operate a can opener or flush a toilet, much less pilot a 6000lb suv and not kill anyone. Other days I just want to get from point A to point B and back to point A again; driving is a chore. I also agree that self driven cars are absolutely going to happen and most of us won't have a choice but to follow along or ride the bus. If I'm lucky it won't be while I'm still able to drive.

Cheers! :buddies:


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## jtr1962 (Mar 13, 2006)

I suppose I understand what you mean to an extent since I enjoy pushing myself to my limits while cycling. I wouldn't worry about not being able to drive any time soon. I'm quite sure it'll take a good 5 to 10 years before self-drive becomes even an _option_, and then only on limited access highways set up for it. I'd hazard a guess it'll be a good 15 to 20 years at least before the days come where driving isn't an option any more. Even when that happens, I'm guessing closed courses where you can drive your MR2 will become more popular than ever, so you'll always be able to drive in some manner, just no longer to get from point A to point B.

Yes, the rationale for doing self-drive is exactly as you say. It's a pity, because if people took driving more seriously, and treated it as a skill, then I doubt there would be many accidents or impetus to get the human element out. Unfortunately, we now have a bunch of idiots on the roads who overcompensate for their inadequecies behind the wheel, and think their car is a phone booth/diner/bathroom/library, etc. If people like you were the majority, things would be much different. In the final analysis I see self-drive as inevitable but also think of it as yet another step in the dumbing down of the society. Thanks for the interesting side discussion. :thumbsup:


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## Dr_Joe (Mar 13, 2006)

Ilikeshinythings said:


> Thanks for the insight Eluminator. I wonder if there is anymore possible modifications we can do to headlights. Xenon HID projector headlights seem like they can not be topped. I guess maybe multiple high powered LEDs may work better possibly but I have never seen LEDs used as headlights. I can see why a monocolor headlight would cause problems for sure. I wonder what's the next big thing! Anybody have any ideas?


 
There was an interesting thread about the possibilities of LED headlights a while back (which I can't seem to find)

It seems to me that with enough LEDs and the right reflectors, you could have a spectacular array of short, medium, and long range lights in the same or less space than we're using now. Not to mention the benefits of longevity, lower voltages and temperatures than HIDs.

As JTR said, Delco did develop an infrared "night vision" system which they debuted on Cadilacs a few years ago. Unfortunately it was more than most Cadilac buyers wanted to pay for something they didn't think they needed ($1500) 

BMW and Mercedes both claim to have improved on the idea, and will be releasing their systems this year and next. One is a passive IR system and the other an active system with the addition of an IR "illuminator" 

I'm sure they won't be cheap, but BMW and Mercedes buyers are a little easier to sell a $2000+ option to.:naughty: 
 
As for cars driving themselves, over my dead body ! You'll have to pry the key to my 500 horsepower AMG Mercedes from my cold dead fingers :devil:


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## HarryN (Mar 13, 2006)

Dr. Joe, I tend to agree with you, not only for the driving satisfaction aspect, but I am not that confident in software as it tends to be a tad "buggy". Yes, I am aware that there is s/w in my car already.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 14, 2006)

JTR- Thank you.

Cheers. :buddies:


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