# Maha MH-C9000, the Wizard One Charger



## moldyoldy

Has anyone noticed the news on Thomas Distributing? Looks like Maha decided to one-up another popular AA/AAA charger.

= = = quote = = = 

» New Charger from Maha PowerEx - The MH-C9000 is simply amazing - Due in December
Published Today
Although not officially announced, Maha PowerEx has developed and is expected to release the New MH-C9000 Battery Charger in December. This latest futuristic multi-function battery charger from Maha is simply amazing. The Accuracy ( Capacity ) is reported to be within 1% of the batteries actual rated capacity and the MH-C9000 is said to be 10 times more efficient and accurate that any other charger currently available.. Simply the best and the most accurate charger in the World. 

 *Features Include:
*Full large size 3.5" x 1.5" LCD display, with built in back light for easy viewing.
Charges 4 Batteries in as little as 1 Hour ( User Selectable Charge Rate)
Operation Modes include Charge, Discharge, Analyze for Battery Capacity & Refresh Batteries, Battery Break In and Battery Forming Cycle Mode ( For New Batteries ), Cycle up to 15 times if needed.
Special Proprietary Heat Management Systems that will protect your batteries from damage and over-heating.
Multiple user selectable charging and discharging levels..
10 User Selectable Charging Levels.
10 User Selectable Discharging Levels, 
110~ 240 V AC Operation
12V Car Operation

and the list goes on. 

At the present time the Price is still unknown. 

This is all of the information we have on this *fantastic new charger* at this time, but check back often, we will be releasing more information as it becomes available. 


= = = end quote = = =


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## tebore

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

" Operation Modes include Charge, Discharge, Analyze for Battery Capacity & Refresh Batteries, Battery Break In and Battery Forming Cycle Mode ( For New Batteries ), Cycle up to 15 times if needed."


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## SilverFox

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

Hello Moldyoldy,

It looks like the BC-900 may finally have some competition...

Tom


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## moldyoldy

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

Silverfox, I believe your interpretation is correct - the BC-900 will have some competition! at least for features. the BC-900 pricepoint may be hard to match. Dare I suggest that Maha has been paying a lot of attention to CPF and not just to defend it's current products? 

FWIW, I noticed the Maha pre-announcement (sic) a day after (!) I ordered the updated BC-900. sigh. ah well, one of my (too many) existing chargers may need to find a new home. hmm....

Tim


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## macdude22

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

I also ordered an updated BC-900, but I've been nothing but satisfied with my 808M, if this thing is the real deal at a reasonable price, who's to say the BC-900 won't go to a new home with a budding battery addict (I'm trying to groom my sister into battery and flashlight addiction, so far mediocre response)


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## BentHeadTX

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

Jeez, I was just about to order a Maha C800S 8-bay charger and I read about the C9000. Whew! I would of been pissed if I spotted this after I ordered the C800S! 

10 selectable charge/discharge levels, forming charge, capacity testing, backlit 3.5" x1.5" display, accurate within 1% and advanced temperature monitoring? Another bonus is that it runs on 12V so I can use the cord that is with my MH-401FS. 

Even if it is $100, I am going to get at least one. My BC-900 Version 32 can take a well deserved rest. Maybe by December Thomas Distributing will have Eneloops so I can test the with the new Maha analyzer. 

Thanks for the tip


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## jtr1962

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

Why, why, why did you have to post this??? :hairpull: 

It'll be all your fault now when I just _have_ to run out and buy this charger the minute it comes out. :laughing: 

I hope they match or at least come close to the BC-900's price point. Forget the accessories-just give me a cheaper price on the charger. I'm not sure I'd spend $100 but for $50-$60 I'd probably give it a try.


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## macdude22

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

Considering the prices on their other chargers, I wouldn't expect it to be more than $70 (hopefully less).


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## lrp

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

I will definetely be buying this one when it is on the market. This forum is great!!


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## Siliconbug

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

I'll order one if it's cheaper than $50 BC-900, or at least, as same as BC-900.

(Am I dreaming?:laughing: )


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## macdude22

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

I'm willing to pay more simply because Maha offers a great 3 year warranty on their products. A warranty like that speaks loads about a products quality and a company's confidence in their products. I'll give it 5-10 bucks leeway based on that alone. Looking at their other 4 bay and 8 bay products I really don't expect it to be much over $60 if over $60. I think they will offer a competitive product at a competitive price.


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## wptski

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

If you want a cheap design that "maybe" you have to use a external fan with, stick with the BC-900! Since MAHA's William Chueh has spoken here about the BC-900 design, I somehow think that it's not gong to be that cheap. You want a Wow charger, get ready for a Wow price! MAHA could prove me wrong though.


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## BentHeadTX

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



wptski said:


> Since MAHA's William Chueh has spoken here about the BC-900 design, I somehow think that it's not gong to be that cheap. You want a Wow charger, get ready for a Wow price! MAHA could prove me wrong though.



I want it to have a Wow price! The BC-900 is OK and quite amazing for $40 to $50 but not what I would call semi-professional. The devil is in the details.

The BC-900 has crappy switches, no backlight, no 12V operation, not high enough discharge rates, flakey channels on occasion and a bit optomistic in it's capacity readings. But hey, that is why it costs what it does.

The C9000 will have Maha quality, 12V operation, backlighting and 10 charge/10 discharge levels to choose from. Another great thing is the forming charge option so new batteries can be treated right. 

Am I going to get a C9000? You bet! Was thinking of the C800S but now that I can have a "mini-Cadex" and plug it in anywere in the world including my car... I'll go for that easily. 

When I get mine in December, it has to go against the Cadex 7400ER and I'll pit the forming cycles against each other as the first test. (Cadex calls it "ExtPrime") Then I'll check capacities to see how they fair against each other. The last step is to test it against the BC-900 to see how consumer analyzers compare against each other. 

If I would take a guess, I can see the BC-900 getting the boot for capacity testing of new batteries. Hopefully the C9000 will not have any quality issues and be very accurate when I do the comparison. I don't see any reason why it would not so I'll waste another week to see how this all shakes out. Heck, I'll even buy some more new batteries just for the Cadex ExtPrime VS Maha Forming Charge comparison.


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## dekelsey61

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

The Maha C9000 Charger looks like a FANTASTIC charger!! I will get one when they come out. The features sounds great and with Maha's quality this should be a real winner!! I have a couple of there chargers and they are the best! I do have one question- Can you do a forming charge on batteries that are not new? I would be looking to bring the batteries capacity back up if the battery has lost some capacity. Thank you.
Dan


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## BentHeadTX

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



dekelsey61 said:


> Can you do a forming charge on batteries that are not new? I would be looking to bring the batteries capacity back up if the battery has lost some capacity. Thank you.
> Dan



Dan,
It is actually recommended to do a forming charge on older batteries to freshen them up. I have two Radio Shack 1000mAH NiCad AA's on a Cadex and they returned 1,180mAH after a forming charge (extended prime) of 16 hours at 50mA then a 100mA charge to termination followed by a 200mA discharge to determine capacity. The BC-900 gave me 982mAH and 1,040mAH after a 200mA charge/100mA discharge cycle before I put it on the Cadex. 
If the 50mA charge rate sounds odd to you, then the extended prime (forming charge) of 32mA on a 3.6V 2100mAH NiMH pack will sound very odd. Cadex monitors many parameters including cell resistance and adjusts the charging current on the fly. 
All my cells at my house will go through the forming charge on the C9000. If I have the ability, why not use it? Sure, I'll post my results to this forum so we can all gain knowledge and see how well it works.


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## jtr1962

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



wptski said:


> If you want a cheap design that "maybe" you have to use a external fan with, stick with the BC-900!


The BC-900 could have been made a lot better for the same price by just leaving out the "free" accessories. While the travel bag and AA cell holders are nice, their inclusion wasn't what pushed me to buy the charger. And while their "free" batteries were OK also, I don't care if any charger I buy comes with batteries as I already have more than enough. I know including extras is a marketing gimmick, but the fact is that they do cost money which otherwise could have been used to make the charger better.

I won't hold my breath that the MH-C9000 will cost the same as the BC-900 but it would be nice if it did. And if not, it's worth an extra $10 or $20.


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## wptski

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



jtr1962 said:


> The BC-900 could have been made a lot better for the same price by just leaving out the "free" accessories. While the travel bag and AA cell holders are nice, their inclusion wasn't what pushed me to buy the charger. And while their "free" batteries were OK also, I don't care if any charger I buy comes with batteries as I already have more than enough. I know including extras is a marketing gimmick, but the fact is that they do cost money which otherwise could have been used to make the charger better.
> 
> I won't hold my breath that the MH-C9000 will cost the same as the BC-900 but it would be nice if it did. And if not, it's worth an extra $10 or $20.


Wait a minute! Didn't I just read that you ordered a MSC815 15 minute charger that comes with cells??


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## N162E

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

This is really good to hear. Finally a company that not only has a grip on the technology but also keeps an eye on the pulse of its users. This charger should be a real treat for all us techies. I am down for two, sight unseen.


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## jtr1962

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



wptski said:


> Wait a minute! Didn't I just read that you ordered a MSC815 15 minute charger that comes with cells??


:laughing: Well, yes. But it's only 2 cells so what would it save me if they weren't included, $2 or $3? And they're supposedly high current/8 minute recharge capable so at least I'm getting a type of cell I don't already have.

Point taken, though. :lolsign: 

Unfortunately I think batteries/chargers are going from just a means to run my portable devices to a hobby of their own. And I think the same is true for quite a few others here as well given all the excitment over this new charger.


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## wptski

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



jtr1962 said:


> :laughing: Well, yes. But it's only 2 cells so what would it save me if they weren't included, $2 or $3? And they're supposedly high current/8 minute recharge capable so at least I'm getting a type of cell I don't already have.
> 
> Point taken, though. :lolsign:
> 
> Unfortunately I think batteries/chargers are going from just a means to run my portable devices to a hobby of their own. And I think the same is true for quite a few others here as well given all the excitment over this new charger.


I'm wondering if those two 8 minute cells are really so special? Or just higher capacity cells. You know that it only charges to 80% in 15 minutes, right? That's the catch on most of these quick chargers anyway.  

Yes, I agree! Besides my three RC type chargers, I have a E-15, D-15, two C204W, two C401FS, C210, BC-900, C808M and two other MAHA chargers that I can't remember the number of!


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## coppertrail

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



jtr1962 said:


> Unfortunately I think batteries/chargers are going from just a means to run my portable devices to a hobby of their own. And I think the same is true for quite a few others here as well given all the excitment over this new charger.


 I have to agree, I own three chargers. It all started by clicking on a link to Thomas Distributing . . .


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## SilverFox

I was able to locate some information on the Wizard One and thought I might pass it on...  It looks good.

Here is what it will probably look like.







There seems to be ample room between cells. This should keep the temperatures down.

Here is what the status display will probably look like.






This information is available for each charging slot.

Here is a guess of what the programing will probably be like.






It looks like charging will be from 0.2 - 2.0 amps, and discharging will be from 0.1 - 1.0 amps. Charge termination includes, - delta V, peak V, rise in Temperature, and maximum temperature. 4 thermocouples will be used to monitor each cells temperature. 

Other features include a large back lit display (3.5" x 1.5"), discharge capacity, up to 15 cycles, new cell break in program, and a refresh cycle program.

It even has a "lift rod" that is designed to improve air flow through the unit.

I have no idea what the price will be... Sorry, I was lucky to find this much information.

It is OK to start drooling now...  

Tom

Edit: It seems the price is going to be right around $70.


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## BVH

Tom, thanks for finding this info. It looks fantastic and like a "must have".


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## N162E

I think I just burned out my keyboard. I can't think of much else to add. Sounds like Mahapower really listened. I think every complaint I have had with every charger I have ever owned has been addressed here. Hard to believe they got so much into a unit that looks fairly small.


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## jtr1962

I like the fact that it displays 4 digits of resolution for capacities exceeding 1999 mAh instead of only 3 as the BC-900 does.

The wide cell spacing/larger size is probably needed to dissipate heat when discharging at up to 1000 mA. 4 cells discharging at 1000 mA can be over 5 watts of heat to contend with.

I wonder if they'll be any inherent capacity limit. Also, since charge can terminate by temperature rise I imagine there would need to be a top-off charge of sorts.

My only pet peeve-I wish it could work with Cs and Ds, or perhaps they'll come out with a model which can do that also.

It looks like a winner. Now let's hope there's not sticker shock.


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## moldyoldy

I am impressed, with the charger, it's specs, and with the person who obtained the information! That info in that form was not just buried on some website for the casual browser to find! Thank you SilverFox! Your ability to come up with intel matches your testing ability! I will join the other CPF members in acquiring a copy when it is available for sale!

Tim


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## wptski

Tom:

Nice find but how did you ever do it?


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## Flash_Gordon

Hot off the press (literally):

Maha PowerEx MH-C9000 Press Release 

Maha PowerEx MH-C9000 Product Information Article 

Thanks to Tom for turning this potential gem up. Hope it will be everything that my LaCrosse BC-900 almost is.

Mark


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## jtr1962

MSRP is $69.95. You'll probably have some places selling it for $10 less. Not bad at all. I'll definitely buy one. :rock:


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## fnmag

MSRP...$69.95! I'm gonna get one of these. Looks like a great charger. Thanks for the info & pics Silverfox.


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## wptski

Hey, where does the line start?


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## macdude22

If Maha would make a model that did C/D, I would drop a Bill like *snap*. I'm sure I'm in the minority of this already niche market though. But I do use quite a few D cells, Mag, portable fan, lantern, radio, as well as some C cells in a couple flashys and a change counter. I'd love to analyze them with out the hassle of the CBA. The CBA is neat but for me I'd rather just toss it in a box and let it spit me out a capacity reading.


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## BentHeadTX

Woohoo!
Finally, a battery analyzer that does what I need it to do and 10 steps to set charge/discharge rates and it does forming charges. Like the exact capacity display and how it will cycle through the numbers...even the lifting rod is a nice idea. 
Now I'll have to hang out at Thomas Distributing and hope to buy the second they go on sale. $70 is a great price for something that has that kind of performance. Added bonus: there is enough space between the cells for cooling and removing individual batteries. 
Paypal locked and loaded.


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## koala

I don't know how well it works but i believe this maha will replace my BC900!  Thanks Tom! *going back to read the first post again..

Looks like a trim down Triton with 4 channels of charging with 4 thermal sensors. Even with large LCD screen, backlit by ultra-bright white LEDs, wow they sure know how to impress cpfers! Glad to see space between each cells so I can put my fingers in and grab a cell easily. Looks like a great chistmas present from Maha!


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## Al

Flashlight hobby evolving to a spinoff charger hobby ... "Chargeaholics"? ... where will I ever find the time to use the batteries?


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## coppertrail

My name is copper and I'm a chargeaholic . . . Thanks Silverfox, this looks to be a great charger to add to the arsenal


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## wattsoccurring

Looks very nice. I think this could be the very Christmas present MRS Wattsoccurring has been longing to receive :devil: And I'm still left with $50 to take her out with: everyone's a winner! Happy days 
Thanks, SilverFox.


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## wasBlinded

Only thing that seems to be missing is a built-in fan to keep the air flowing and our precious cells as healthy as possible at high charge rates.


But it is already a must have, no doubt about it.


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## macdude22

It's been my experience with the Maha 808m that the cells come off cool even at the 2A charge rate. Cooler than my Rayovac PS3 and it has a 475 MaH rate. I'm assuming they will be using similar technology in this, the pulse charging or whatever technical jargon they use to explain it. Bottom line, if its charging method is similar to the 808m the bottom line is they probably don't need a fan in it.


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## wptski

wasBlinded said:


> Only thing that seems to be missing is a built-in fan to keep the air flowing and our precious cells as healthy as possible at high charge rates.
> 
> 
> But it is already a must have, no doubt about it.


If it's similiar to the C808M where cells remain cool, it won't need one.


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## wptski

I emailed Thomas Distributing asking about a C9000 pre-order list. No such list yet!


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## N162E

Finally a charger that allows you to easily insert and remove each cell as opposed to having to remove them by the ends or having to remove the side cells to get at the middle ones.


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## tacoal

Many thanks, SilverFox.
It seems it can only show the one battery's status at a given time.


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## wptski

N162E said:


> Finally a charger that allows you to easily insert and remove each cell as opposed to having to remove them by the ends or having to remove the side cells to get at the middle ones.


Fred:

I have a unit that takes two AA's, both contacts look the same, wide metal strips. Each end had a piece of hard rubber material wedged behind the contact. Even with that removed, it takes the help of a small screw driver to remove the cells! I've never seen anything like this before.


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## SilverFox

Hello Tacoal,

I believe it sequentially displays the data for each slot.

Tom


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## Handlobraesing

I will buy this one if it has a discharge only mode. I would like to be able to discharge the batteries and analyze the capacity and leave it there. 

With LaCrosse, you have to use Discharge/refresh mode to get it to remember the discharge capacity and it automatically starts charging :/

Charge/test is not useful for me, because it doesn't follow the proper procedure (rest period of one hour, IEC standard).


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## distox

Drat! I pre-ordered a BC-900 last week...


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## bob_ninja

SilverFox said:


> Hello Tacoal,
> 
> I believe it sequentially displays the data for each slot.
> 
> Tom



Interesting. So how would one know which bay is finished without having to cycle display between all the slots every X minutes? Bit odd with so much display space that it doesn't have a "summary" display mode with minimal info for all the slots (like BC900, charging/discharging/full status)?!?!

Yep, looks like 99% of issues with BC900 are addressed in this one. The fan is not a big deal except for the super-fast 15 min types (this one is not that type) I'll probably get one, but will keep using BC900.

Too bad we still have to improvise for Cs and Ds with alligator clips, etc.


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## bob_ninja

Forgot to ask,
I cannot see from the image if the buttons are "robust"?
BC900 users know what I mean. Does this one have decent quality buttons that don't require massive force? Are they durable? Any info on the buttons?

thanks


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## hank

Handlobraesing wrote:
"... the proper procedure (rest period of one hour, IEC standard)."

EDITED 11/11 -- it has this -- see comment later in thread


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## willchueh

Hello,

The buttons (four) used in the MH-C9000 are very robust. They are similar to the button used on the Maha MH-C801D and MH-C808M. 

William




bob_ninja said:


> Forgot to ask,
> I cannot see from the image if the buttons are "robust"?
> BC900 users know what I mean. Does this one have decent quality buttons that don't require massive force? Are they durable? Any info on the buttons?
> 
> thanks


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## Handlobraesing

hank said:


> Handlobraesing wrote:
> "... the proper procedure (rest period of one hour, IEC standard)."
> 
> Dang. So, when are the modders going to come out with new software/chips to improve the performance of chargers like this, as well as handle C and D cells?
> 
> I realize the admins don't want CPF to veer too far from its focus on flashlights, but it sure looks like time for modding these things.



The one hour rest period is only needed for testing capacity. The CBA II is probably the best reasoanble testing equipment available. If you get the right Cadex tester, you can perform capacity tests that conforms to IEC standards automatically, but they easily cost as much as a used car.


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## willchueh

The MH-C9000 has an "absolute" timer that is longer than AA batteries will ever get. It also has a "smart" timer that can vary automatically based on the battery status. 

William




jtr1962 said:


> I wonder if they'll be any inherent capacity limit.


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## willchueh

To maximize the font size on the screen, information are displayed sequentially for each slot. However, you can press the "SLOT" button at anytime to switch to the desired slot.

William




tacoal said:


> Many thanks, SilverFox.
> It seems it can only show the one battery's status at a given time.


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## willchueh

You are in luck! The MH-C9000 will allow for a REST period (though not programmable in length) between charging and discharging in the relavent modes.

William





Handlobraesing said:


> The one hour rest period is only needed for testing capacity. The CBA II is probably the best reasoanble testing equipment available. If you get the right Cadex tester, you can perform capacity tests that conforms to IEC standards automatically, but they easily cost as much as a used car.


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## willchueh

Yep, a discharge-only mode is available with programmable current.

William




Handlobraesing said:


> I will buy this one if it has a discharge only mode. I would like to be able to discharge the batteries and analyze the capacity and leave it there.


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## willchueh

Well today is your lucky day! The MH-C9000 has a built-in "IEC" capacity program under the "Break-In" mode. The sequence is:

1. Charge for 16 hours at 0.1C (user inputs capacity - though for safety reasons, temperature monitoring will be enabled, but no voltage termination).
2. Rest 1 hour.
3. Discharge at 0.2C (up to 1.0A).
4. Rest 1 hour.
5. Repeat step 1 to 4 for four times.
6. Last discharge capacity is saved. 
7. Charge - battery ready for use.

William




Handlobraesing said:


> Charge/test is not useful for me, because it doesn't follow the proper procedure (rest period of one hour, IEC standard).


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## macdude22

willchueh: Any plans at Maha for a C/D version? I'd easily pay 100 bucks or more for the "One Unit To Rule Them All".


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## bob_ninja

William, thanks for info

Glad to see more sophisticated temp cutoff. What is the max temp limit?

Also, the break-in mode doesn't stop after [email protected], but proceeds to discharge and charge thereafter? Why?


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## wptski

willchueh:

Looks like a winner!


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## RobbW

For $70, I'm in. That is a fair price on what looks to be a great product. I'll keep looking in CPF for a pre-order.


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## Short Circuit

This sounds great, I only wish it could do C/D cells as well.


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## Tachyon

Can't this unit charge C and D cells using adaptors? Might look crude but it should get the job done?

Tachy


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## BentHeadTX

willchueh said:


> Well today is your lucky day! The MH-C9000 has a built-in "IEC" capacity program under the "Break-In" mode. The sequence is:
> 
> 1. Charge for 16 hours at 0.1C (user inputs capacity - though for safety reasons, temperature monitoring will be enabled, but no voltage termination).
> 2. Rest 1 hour.
> 3. Discharge at 0.2C (up to 1.0A).
> 4. Rest 1 hour.
> 5. Repeat step 1 to 4 for four times.
> 6. Last discharge capacity is saved.
> 7. Charge - battery ready for use.
> 
> William



The news keeps getting better with the MH-C9000 and thank you for the additional info about the "break in" charge. Been messing around with a Cadex and have 8 PowerEx 2700's to see how a forming charge works on two month old batteries that have been used. 93%, 98% and 99% for all 8 of them in series. The Extended Prime mode did a 52-56mA trickle charge for 16 hours then a C/10 charge followed by a C/5 discharge for another two cycles. 

The priming charge works very well and I am happy to see that I can do that with the C9000. The abilities of the new Maha conditioner not only blow away the BC-900 but Cadex should take notice.


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## willchueh

The microcontroller can support higher capacity (C, D) without any problem (the capacity calculation limit is 20000mAh). The only limitation is mechanical. Therefore, if you can hook up C/D batteries to the charger, in theory it should work fine. Hope this info helps.

William




Tachyon said:


> Can't this unit charge C and D cells using adaptors? Might look crude but it should get the job done?
> 
> Tachy


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## wptski

willchueh said:


> The microcontroller can support higher capacity (C, D) without any problem (the capacity calculation limit is 20000mAh). The only limitation is mechanical. Therefore, if you can hook up C/D batteries to the charger, in theory it should work fine. Hope this info helps.
> 
> William


William:

That would defeat the individual cell temperature sensors though.


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## willchueh

Bill,

While that is a good point, temperature sensing is much less critical for C/D because the relative "C" charging current is much lower. I doubt the cell would even get hot, as in the MH-C808M.

William





 wptski said:


> William:
> 
> That would defeat the individual cell temperature sensors though.


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## wptski

willchueh said:


> Bill,
> 
> While that is a good point, temperature sensing is much less critical for C/D because the relative "C" charging current is much lower. I doubt the cell would even get hot, as in the MH-C808M.
> 
> William


William:

True. I have posted several scope plots from various chargers and inorder to do this I "must" connect a cell outside of the unit. Chargers like the Energizer/Duracell 15, I use a small 12VDC fan to keep'em cool. The key is a good solid connection as I've learned that it doesn't much to cause these chargers to error. I was using magnets alone witgh wires clipped to them but some chargers use grades of stainless steel for contacts with very little iron content. I have a very solid setup now for testing.


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## Brock

What is the actual input voltage to the unit? I am guessing 12v since it has a 12v plug option? I charge from a large bank of 12v batteries and stopped using the BC-900 because I had to use its 120v adapter and am currently using two 401's. If I can run this directly off 12v that would be great!


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## willchueh

The input is 12V, so you can use a 12V power source (though I am not sure the exact rating, but probably on the order of 2A). 

William



Brock said:


> What is the actual input voltage to the unit? I am guessing 12v since it has a 12v plug option? I charge from a large bank of 12v batteries and stopped using the BC-900 because I had to use its 120v adapter and am currently using two 401's. If I can run this directly off 12v that would be great!


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## Lonely Raven

Wow, just point me to a store with them in stock!

I just read the release date on these is "December 2006", so I guess it's a short wait.


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## koala

12V input? sweet! works for my car and also integrate very well into my benchtop charging arena. This is looking very good. NiMH users rejoice.


----------



## DogLeg

*Re: Maha MH-C9000 WizardOne - 8-10 Cell Version?*

Willchueh:

OK, I know this is premature, but....

Any plans to come out with a higher capacity (e.g. 8-10 cell version)? 

Would there be a cost savings if such a version were available or would it cost the same as 2 C9000s?


----------



## DogLeg

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



BentHeadTX said:


> Jeez, I was just about to order a Maha C800S 8-bay charger and I read about the C9000. Whew! I would of been pissed if I spotted this after I ordered the C800S!



Tell me about it: I just ordered a C800S a few days ago and just got the shipping confirmation from Thomas-Distributing.

Now I need someone to convince me that I still need the WizardOne in addition to the C800S (reasons other than lust or gizmo-addiction).

The only consolation is that I do need to be able to charge more than 4 cells at a time. But the problem is that I need to charge *9 *AA cells.

So the question is: When will Maha release the 10-cell version of the WizardOne?


----------



## Kevlarman

Neat!
Is it going to come with one of those nice, lightweight switching power supplies (foldable plug would be nice!), or the big heavy ones with the iron transformer?


----------



## NiOOH

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

craigsharrow,

I doubt that more than 4 cell charger of the class of C9000 will be released. The price will be too high, and IMO the majority of users would preffer to get the much cheaper 4-cell version and do multiple loadings.


----------



## x2x3x2

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

If i get this, will i see a great improvement over my current Sony 15min charger for Eneloop cells?


----------



## Handlobraesing

willchueh said:


> You are in luck! The MH-C9000 will allow for a REST period (though not programmable in length) between charging and discharging in the relavent modes.
> 
> William



How do you know this? Is there a PDF manual floating out there?


----------



## Christoph

William works for 
Maha Energy (North America) Corp

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1244816#post1244816


----------



## wasBlinded

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



x2x3x2 said:


> If i get this, will i see a great improvement over my current Sony 15min charger for Eneloop cells?


 
No.

If the benefits of this charger aren't apparent to you, it probably is not worth the money. It might possibly charge your cells to a slightly higher state, or make them last somewhat longer, but I don't think you will find any "great improvement".


----------



## bob_ninja

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*

x2x3x2,

Yes and now. Both this one and BC-900 provide more control. All 15min chargers are designed for speed alone. Hence 15min chargers will sacrifice battery lifespan and capacity. Moreover, these allow for periodic break-in to refresh batteries which 15 min ones don't have.

So 15min are better for faster charge, while these are better for longer battery lifespan and more complete (higher capacity) charge. Which is better depends on your priorities.


----------



## Sigman

Merged another like thread with this one...


----------



## wptski

Christoph said:


> William works for
> Maha Energy (North America) Corp
> 
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1244816#post1244816



William Chueh isn't new to MAHA Energy either! I spoke to him years ago, long before I ever heard of the CPF.


----------



## spock

willchueh, thank you for all your contributions to cpf. this is the charger that i have been waiting for. just pre-ordered one from thomas distributing and i can't wait to receive it.


----------



## BentHeadTX

*Re: Maha MH-C9000?*



craigsharrow said:


> Tell me about it: I just ordered a C800S a few days ago and just got the shipping confirmation from Thomas-Distributing.
> 
> Now I need someone to convince me that I still need the WizardOne in addition to the C800S (reasons other than lust or gizmo-addiction).
> 
> The only consolation is that I do need to be able to charge more than 4 cells at a time. But the problem is that I need to charge *9 *AA cells.



Craig, it depends on many variables to include cost, how anal you are about cell balancing and how often you want to check cell capacity.

To me, the C9000 is a battery analyzer that can be used as a charger and not the other way around. Since I have a BC-900 I've enjoyed screwing around with with my 8AA LuxV Mag pack and keeping the Sanyo 1700mAH batteries, fresh in balance and ready to go. Larger cells won't fit inside the stock Mag barrel so I'm a bit PARANOID about getting the maximum life out of them. The pack is 2 years old and the cells are within a few percentage points of each other in balance so I project at least 3 more years from the pack. 

My latest mod I'm working on uses eight PowerEx 2700's so it is not as critical since any AA cell will fit. Alas, I've been sucked up into battery ANALysis and have literally dozens of AA cells in use.  I get the capacity readings of many of the cells and match the 2 or 4 that are closest together so the camera or flashlight packs give the longest life and stay in balance. 

Actually charging the 8 packs depends how much time I have to get them going. I can throw 4 of them in the BC-900 and four more in my Maha MH-C401FS and have the pack ready to go in 2 to 3 hours. Preferably, I'll go with the C401 twice and load the pack up when both cycles are done. Once I get the C9000 in, I'll discharge the pack first then recharge so the cells will stay in balance, reload the other 4 cells when the first cells are done. For flashlight packs, daylight is to recharge so I have the time to do that  

Considering you have the C800S to charge 8 of your cells, adding an analyzer to charge the ninth one from the same manufacturer would make sense to me YMMV. If the batteries are in use all the time, cycle them in batches of 4 once a month to see how well the batteries are doing. If any of the cells start to weaken, put them in the "break in" prime charge to freshen them up. If you add the C9000 to your collection, it will also charge at 2 amps in case you need 1 to 4 AA cells charged faster than the 8 bay can do. 

Do you NEED a battery analyzer? Well, we are biased since we post to the internet about batteries and carry $$$ multiple flashlights around. We are not the most objective bunch to talk to.


----------



## Floating Spots

Questions (that may have to wait for the release):
1) Can all four batteries be setup at the same time?
2) Is the last setup stored? (So I don't have to setup a whole lot of features to get the same result on different battery sets.)
3) How is firmware handled? If there are feature advancements or flaw fixes, can the unit be upgraded?

Jon


----------



## Siliconbug

For me, I'll use BC-900/MH-C9000 to organize my cells in home, and use C800S as a travel charger.

Howvere, it doesn't mean that you can't use BC-900/MH-C9000 as a travel charger.


----------



## Neg2LED

must have wizard one!

somebody donate one or two to the xmas gifts 4! 

--neg


----------



## dtsoll

Well, I just pulled the trigger for the MH-C9000. Looked too good to pass on. I just don't really trust the BC-900 I have, I would like to load up the charger and leave if you know what I mean. So, I will have either a BC-900 or a Maha 401 (haven't decided which one yet) to give away once the new Maha shows up. If anyone is in need or can't afford one, please PM me and we'll work out the details. Doug


----------



## TheBeam

Is there going to be a trickle charge?


----------



## wptski

TheBeam said:


> Is there going to be a trickle charge?


Good question! There's nothing mentioned in the information provided so far about a trickle charge.


----------



## willchueh

Here is some clarafication on the "trickle charge" capability:

In certain modes, a "TOPOFF CHARGE" is applied after rapid charge termination to top off the battery. The rate is typically 0.1C and is applied for one hour. After that, an indefinite trickle charge is applied, usually at 0.005C (so around 10mA for AA). This assures good battery performance even if the batteries are left in the charger for an extended period of time. 

William


----------



## wptski

willchueh said:


> Here is some clarafication on the "trickle charge" capability:
> 
> In certain modes, a "TOPOFF CHARGE" is applied after rapid charge termination to top off the battery. The rate is typically 0.1C and is applied for one hour. After that, an indefinite trickle charge is applied, usually at 0.005C (so around 10mA for AA). This assures good battery performance even if the batteries are left in the charger for an extended period of time.
> 
> William


William:

Thanks for the trickle charge info.


----------



## N162E

willchueh said:


> Here is some clarafication on the "trickle charge" capability:
> 
> In certain modes, a "TOPOFF CHARGE" is applied after rapid charge termination to top off the battery. The rate is typically 0.1C and is applied for one hour. After that, an indefinite trickle charge is applied, usually at 0.005C (so around 10mA for AA). This assures good battery performance even if the batteries are left in the charger for an extended period of time.
> 
> William


It just keeps getting better :goodjob:


----------



## RobbW

N162E said:


> It just keeps getting better :goodjob:


 
No kidding! This charger sounds amazing. Will it also cook my breakfast eggs? I like over easy.

Seriously, I'm glad I got in on the pre-order. Can't wait for the units to start shipping.


----------



## NiOOH

RobbW said:


> No kidding! This charger sounds amazing. Will it also cook my breakfast eggs? I like over easy.
> 
> 
> I hope not, i.e. the cells will stay cool, no eggs fried on them


----------



## hank

Now all I need is a big trickle-charge-only rack in which to store all my batteries, foolproof and solar powered (grin). Anyone got a simple design for something with some built in intelligence to recognize batteries and keep them full up?


----------



## Handlobraesing

willchueh said:


> Here is some clarafication on the "trickle charge" capability:
> 
> In certain modes, a "TOPOFF CHARGE" is applied after rapid charge termination to top off the battery. The rate is typically 0.1C and is applied for one hour. After that, an indefinite trickle charge is applied, usually at 0.005C (so around 10mA for AA). This assures good battery performance even if the batteries are left in the charger for an extended period of time.
> 
> William



What is the method of applying .005C? Does it feed a constant 10mA current or the more prefereble pulse method like 1A for 10mS, 0A for 990mS?


----------



## willchueh

It's the same as the Maha MH-C808M - using modulated pulse trickle charge. 

William



Handlobraesing said:


> What is the method of applying .005C? Does it feed a constant 10mA current or the more prefereble pulse method like 1A for 10mS, 0A for 990mS?


----------



## Handlobraesing

How about the means of calculation? Does it assume the current is constant and simply multiply by time or does it continuously integrate the current over time using measured values?


----------



## willchueh

The capacity is determined by continously integrating the measured current (actual current not set point) over time. High accuracy is achieved by using a precision shunt-resistor coupled with a 12-bit Analog-to-Digital converter as well as a quartz oscillator timebase. 

William




Handlobraesing said:


> How about the means of calculation? Does it assume the current is constant and simply multiply by time or does it continuously integrate the current over time using measured values?


----------



## bp044

William sayes OK to leave on trickle charge "for an extended period of time". Exactly how long is that ?


----------



## dennisthomas

bp044 said:


> William sayes OK to leave on trickle charge "for an extended period of time". Exactly how long is that ?


 
In theory you could actually leave your batteries in the MH-C9000 on trickle charge indefinetly. As long as you are charging good quality rechargeable batteries the 10mA trickle current is safe and should never cause any damage regardless of how long you leave your batteries on trickle charge in the MH-C9000..


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Dennis,

Welcome to CPF.

I have always recommended against leaving batteries on the charger, and still think this is a better way to safeguard their performance.

However, these new Maha chargers may change my mind. The pulsed current and the low trickle charge rate should keep the chemistry active without "cooking" it. I need to do a test to see if the voltage drops during trickle charging. William may have picked a rate that slows down the self discharge rate to a point where it becomes insignificant.

It is my humble opinion that anything over 24 hours on a charger is an extended period of time.

Friends of mine with cameras have consulted me about battery problems with their cameras. The common habit with those that seem to quickly kill their cells, is that they leave their cells trickle charging "to make sure they have a fresh set of batteries ready to go." Casual shooters have the most problems, followed by professionals that don't have a system to rotate their cells. The professionals find that their "work" cells are great, but when they grab their "standby" cells, they are disappointed in their performance. Come to find out their "standby" cells have been trickle charging for several months just to make sure they are ready to go when needed.

It looks like these latest Maha chargers will replace the need for timers to cycle the chargers when maintaining a set of back up batteries.

Tom


----------



## SilverFox

Hello William,

Theoretically, if a cells self discharge rate exceeded the trickle charge rate, the cells voltage would drop. Will the charger kick back in at some point and recharge the cell?

Tom


----------



## Anders

Hello William.

I'm follow up Silverfox question with the same question concerning Maha MH-C808M, even if the cells are C or D?

Thanks//Anders


----------



## Tachyon

willchueh said:


> The microcontroller can support higher capacity (C, D) without any problem (the capacity calculation limit is 20000mAh). The only limitation is mechanical. Therefore, if you can hook up C/D batteries to the charger, in theory it should work fine. Hope this info helps.
> 
> William


 
Hi William

Thanks for this info. Does this also apply to the older Maha 401 charger as well?

Cheers
Tachy


----------



## willchueh

Someone had asked this earlier...

The power adapter weighs 170g (6oz).

William


----------



## bbobbo

for those people who pre-ordered the updated bc-900 from thomas distributing (as i did), you can email them and have them change your order to the mh-c9000. you'd better do it quickly, though, because the customer service rep i emailed said they're getting the bc-900s in on thursday (11/16).

also, i mentioned to the rep that i was going to charge c or d cells in the mh-c9000 using a jury-rigged adapter (i had ordered a separate charger for those, and was cancelling that order). she said that it wasn't designed to handle the higher capacities of c or d cells and that they couldn't guarantee any c or d cells that are charged in that way. of course, i didn't mention that will chueh said it was okay!


----------



## JackJ

bbobbo said:


> (...)charge c or d cells in the mh-c9000 using a jury-rigged adapter


 
Can you describe what you're planning re: the adaptor? I've got the C9000 on pre-order too, and would love to use it to analyze my C cells. (I don't have any D's, and don't see any in my near future.)


----------



## Handlobraesing

William, 
Do you know what type of switches the MH-C9000 use? 

This is a picture of my BC-900 modification process. The somewhat triangular leaf springs that makes direct contact with the contact surface on the PCB are stock switches. The problem was they became flaky (acting like button was pushed twice on one click, requiring excessive force, etc) after sometime and required me to replace the switches with better ones. The bottom three switches are the type I wish to see on your charger.


----------



## meeshu

Aaaahhhh, fudge!! I had to see this thread!!!  

Now I HAVE to get one of these impressive spec'd chargers!  

But, I won't have funds available until next year to buy one!! 

Aaaaaaahhhhh, fudge again!! I hate waiting! Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!


----------



## bbobbo

JackJ said:


> Can you describe what you're planning re: the adaptor? I've got the C9000 on pre-order too, and would love to use it to analyze my C cells. (I don't have any D's, and don't see any in my near future.)


i plan to do what n3eg described here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1673484&postcount=5

i ordered a couple of the 2-cell c sized battery holders from thomas distributing:

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/battery-holders.htm


----------



## wptski

A comment or story about charging cells other than AA in the C9000 or any other charger.

I have a pretty solid setup or I thought so! I had purchased eight Sanyo 2.7Ah AA's a while back. I was using a Energizer 15 with these cells well clamped outside the unit with a small fan for cooling. I was watch the PWM current on a scope. I tested two cells just fine but on the third I got a blinking LED! I checked all my connections and tried again but it still errored. Inserted the cell dirctly into the unit, no problem. Tried another cell, same problem.

I tried another clamp, same thing again. A quick check with a DMM found no problem. There must be some added resistance in my setup and a bit high internal resistance.

The odd thing that there was no problem with Duracell 2.3Ah at that time or any other brand/capacity cells!

So, since these are high capacity cells, trying to charge some high capacity C/D cells may be a problem!


----------



## distox

bbobbo said:


> ... because the customer service rep i emailed said they're getting the bc-900s in on thursday (11/16)...



It may be even longer. When I emailed them on Monday (11/13) they said Wednesday (11/15). Come Thursday, I am sure someone there will say, "OH, we should get them Monday".


----------



## dennisthomas

distox said:


> It may be even longer. When I emailed them on Monday (11/13) they said Wednesday (11/15). Come Thursday, I am sure someone there will say, "OH, we should get them Monday".


 

Just a note to let everyone know that the BC-900 La Crosse Chargers have arrived today ( 11-16-06 Thursday ) and all backorders and orders are shipping.


----------



## wasBlinded

Hi Dennis -

Glad to see you pop in here. You must have been wondering what precipitated the sudden pop of pre-orders for the MH-C9000 charger....

A bunch of us here are looking forward to its arrival, thats for sure.


----------



## tvman

I called Thomas Distributing about my Maha pre-order today (11-16). The guy said they had just received shipment today of the pre-order LaCrosse BC-900.


----------



## willchueh

I don't know what you call those things used in the BC-900. The ones used in the MH-C9000 are very similar to the ones shown in your mod. We call them "tactile switches." 

William





Handlobraesing said:


> William,
> Do you know what type of switches the MH-C9000 use?
> 
> This is a picture of my BC-900 modification process. The somewhat triangular leaf springs that makes direct contact with the contact surface on the PCB are stock switches. The problem was they became flaky (acting like button was pushed twice on one click, requiring excessive force, etc) after sometime and required me to replace the switches with better ones. The bottom three switches are the type I wish to see on your charger.


----------



## paulr

x2x3x2 from a while back asked about the benefits of these complex chargers vs a 15 minute charger.

I've been using a BC900 and it's great that it shows the voltage and the amount of charge taken by the cell. That's let me catch a number of failed cells (the notorious Sanyo 2500mah self-discharge problem). It's also been good to keep an eye on the general state of my cells in general. I just put my digicam cells on it after a month or so of non-use and they're at 1.24V which from experience I know means they're part drained. 

The other thing that's great is the recondition (i.e. repeated discharge-charge) function. That's been nice for bringing pooped out cells back to life.

For this type of charger used at home, I don't think faster-than-overnight charging speed is that important. I usually charge at 500 mA (AA cells) or 200 mA (AAA cells) in the BC900 and it's fine. But for a car charger, fast charge rate is more important and I like the idea of a 12V, 15 minute charger.

Anyway I will probably get one of these new Maha units once they are shipping. I don't like pre-ordering things.

I support the request for a 10 or 12 cell unit. I have a Vanson V-6988 but it's not that satisfactory for various reasons. I've thought about using it as the platform for a computer controlled charger (PC interface) but I'd rather have a single, do-everything Maha unit. Yeah I could get several 4-cell chargers but that's more damn power cubes and wires, more tabletop space, and probably more total cost.

Finally, the next generation: I think there should be a charger with a PC interface that allows detailed tracking of the performance of individual cells over time.


----------



## schill

paulr said:


> Finally, the next generation: I think there should be a charger with a PC interface that allows detailed tracking of the performance of individual cells over time.


I've been thinking about this since I first read about this charger. A simple serial port spitting out data every so often would be nice.


----------



## paulr

I've gotten the impression (just from my own experience, haven't seen it confirmed elsewhere) that prolonged trickle charging is bad for NiMH cells no matter how low the charge rate. That's made me wish for a standby mode which does not charge the cells at all, but simply does a voltage test once in a while, like once a week or so (measure the cell voltage under load, like a ZTS test). If the voltage gets below some level, only then should the charger charge the cell, using a normal charge termination scheme. The idea is to top off the cell if it gets below 80% or so, which with good cells should mean no more than once every few months. 

Does anyone know if $59.95 is going to be the regular Thomas Dist. price or is that preorder-only?


----------



## wasBlinded

schill said:


> I've been thinking about this since I first read about this charger. A simple serial port spitting out data every so often would be nice.


 
Please make that a USB interface. Its getting hard to find laptop computers with serial ports anymore, and Serial to USB adaptors can be hit or miss.


----------



## schill

wasBlinded said:


> Please make that a USB interface. Its getting hard to find laptop computers with serial ports anymore, and Serial to USB adaptors can be hit or miss.


I debated whether to say serial or USB. I agree that USB is better in many ways, but serial is much more versatile (you can connect to more devices).

It's much harder to build USB host interfaces into devices than serial interfaces. Say that I want to build a non-pc based data logger that would connect to this charger. It's harder to do that if the port is USB.

Now, if they want to put in a serial-based interface but use a serial-to-USB chip (like those from FTDI) inside it, then the USB chip could be bypassed and a straight serial connection could be made by those who desired one (like me  ).

By the way, I have also had mixed results with USB-to-serial adapters, but I have never had any problems with one that was based on FTDI chips (FTDI).


----------



## N162E

Any new news here?


----------



## dekelsey61

N162E, I talked to the people at Maha yesterday and they have nothing new and still hope to hit the 12-10 date. I ordered 1 and can not wait to get it like many others. I looks like a FANTASTIC CHARGER!! Thomas Dist. I talked to yesterday also and said the same. No new news on the charger. If I hear anything I will post it.

Dan


----------



## EngrPaul

I'm very interested in it. However, I would absolutely LOVE to have an 8-bay version.


----------



## EngrPaul

OK I bought it for entertainment value alone  Plus there is space beside my brand new 800S

The USB link option would be fantastic! Program and monitor it from your PC. Log voltage, current, and temperature. Serialize your batteries and punch in the number each charge. Log capacity for each cell and keep track of number of charges.


----------



## macdude22

I broke down and bought a BC-900 off amazon last night because they were 39.99 free shipping. I still have one of these mahas on order, figure I can use the BC at work the Maha at home, who knows. Can't have enough chargers right?


----------



## EngrPaul

I'm excited about being able to test the capacity of my batteries. I have gone around the house and gathered up all the NiMH batteries I possess and used a labelmaker to serialize them. I have started conditioning all of them. Each conditioning cycle takes a half day. Therefore, to the statement "you can't have enough chargers", I have to agree.


----------



## bill_n_opus

EngrPaul said:


> ... and used a labelmaker to serialize them.


 
I can't believe that I didn't think of this idea before. 

I labelled some of my batteries with masking tape and a marker.


----------



## thekobk

I have got to quit visiting this forum before my girlfrend kills me. In the last couple of months i have bought 2 flashlights 2many batterys the bc900 and now the mh-c9000.


----------



## wasBlinded

I must admit I have given thought to this label idea before, and before I banished it from my mind for reflecting extreme geekiness, I fantasized a scheme of bar-code labels to correspond with an electronic database of performance parameters for each cell. 

Then I slapped myself and moved on. It does make sense for the RC guys, but not so much for flashlight people, except to initially match cell capacityies.


----------



## EngrPaul

wasBlinded said:


> I must admit I have given thought to this label idea before, and before I banished it from my mind for reflecting extreme geekiness, I fantasized a scheme of bar-code labels to correspond with an electronic database of performance parameters for each cell.
> 
> Then I slapped myself and moved on. It does make sense for the RC guys, but not so much for flashlight people, except to initially match cell capacityies.


 
Yeah, you keep telling yourself you moved on. :laughing: We all know you'll be picking up a Labelmaker next week at Wal*Mart. :naughty:


----------



## RobSpook

Hello Flashaholics... I've been lurking around here getting lots of information about batteries and chargers and just purchased a BC-900 from Thomas... Now I wish I waited, but if the BC-900 was good enough for folks to use for the past x years, then it's still good enough for me . 

What got me to un-lurk myself was talk of serializing batteries and tracking... I AM the big dork that has done this!!!

I tried to use my labelmaker to number my batteries but the labels wouldn't stick good, so I went back to basics and used a sharpie to number my batteries. Each brand/capacity has it's own number range. 

I created a spreadsheet not so much to track charging information, but to simply list WHERE my batteries are. It then grew to track charging information after I got the BC-900. I know in the past year my wife and I have donated/given away toys and forgot to remove rechargable batteries first (DOH!). This servers as a reminder to where the batteries are.

The first sheet is called "Locator" and simple has the battery number, the location, date installed in, date charged, # of charges and capacity. Date charged and capacity is automatically taken from the corresponding battery sheet. # of charges is automatically calculated from individual battery columns in other sheet (see sheet 2)

The sheet 2 for example is called "Energizer AA 2500" and contains header columns for each cell, each divided into 3 columns - Date, charge type (Charge, Discharge, Refresh, Test... BC-900 settings), and Capacity (Final MaH shown after any charge mode... not necesarilly the capacity...) Each time I charge the battery I select the latest information on the sheet, click insert cells and select "Shift down".

Unfortunately for most of you who may be interested in this spreadsheet, It was created using OpenOffice 2.0.4 and saved in OpenDoc (.ODT) format (Not MS Excel .XLS). I tried to upload it to Google Sheets but the links got all tortured, so I assume it won't export to Excel correctly either.

I will post my actual spreadsheet (in .ODT format) to my webspace for anyone interested in attempting a conversion or just to make it your own. Please note that I am not an expert spreadsheet maker and if you edit the spreadsheet it may screw up the automatic cell references... so check the locator frequently while editing!

Download here: RobSpook.Googlepages.com/Batteries.ODS

Link is now active!

All I ask from anyone who decides to update it is to please share changes or suggestions with the rest of us... Maybe start a thread if anyone actually likes it...

PS - Just last night I ordered my first LED flashlight... After over ten years of using nothing but 2AA Mag-Lite's I purchased a Fenix L1T light and an L2T body from EliteLED. Anyone got a spare L2T belt pouch?


----------



## wasBlinded

Rob, you have it bad. Obviously your wife isn't thinking of enough things for you to do to keep busy.:tsk:


----------



## RobSpook

It only took me about an hour to make the spreadsheet... We just had our second child and I had time off from work... He's a sleeper so I didn't have much else to do!


----------



## thekobk

Has any one got a chance to test drive this thing yet? Does any one know when this will be shipped? Does or can some one make a professional looking adaptor/jig to charge C and or D cells with this charger? Sorry to ask so many questions but I am excited. 

I got a email from Thomas Distributing this morning. We are expecting the Maha 9000s in around December 10 and will ship your order as soon as they arrive. You should receive an email with tracking information from FedEx late in the afternoon when it ships. 
Thank you for your order.


----------



## RobSpook

The link in my previous post is now active. I tried to convert it to Excel '97 (.XLS) but the cell references didn't work in Excel. They did however still work in OpenOffice... so have fun with it and let me know if I am the biggest nerd ever...


----------



## macdude22

The wife is gunna kill me, she already hates the sudo obsession with batteries, I've now begun to serialize and document my batteries(starting with the ones I have at work, gotta ease slowly). Thanks guys.........


----------



## gdhumphreys

RobSpook said:


> I know in the past year my wife and I have donated/given away toys and forgot to remove rechargable batteries first (DOH!).


 
My wife gave away one of our son's toys that had four of the Maha Powerex NiMH 11,000 mAh D cell batteries in it. By the time I figured it out, the batteries had been thrown away.

Tracking them via spreadsheet might have prevented that, so I think you have a good idea. I'm going to see what I can come up with to track the batteries I have.


----------



## thekobk

wow $99.95 here http://servaas.com.au/maha-powerex-mhc9000-wizardone-battery-charger-analyzer-p-52.html


----------



## Skyline

99.95 Australian dollars = 78.710625 U.S. dollars


----------



## dekelsey61

Ok- I hope I don't get alot of hate mail for this but I talked to customer service at Maha today (12-7-06) and they said that the C9000 would not ship until 12/20-12/22/06. I hope they are wrong! I can not wait to get this charger like all the rest of you. Maybe William from Maha can either confirm this or set the record straight. Sorry for the news.
Dan


----------



## bc5000

I can't decide if I want to pre-order one or wait and let you guys work the bugs out of them first. :lolsign: I wonder what the regular price will be.


----------



## summerwind

dekelsey61 said:


> Ok- I hope I don't get alot of hate mail for this but I talked to customer service at Maha today (12-7-06) and they said that the C9000 would not ship until 12/20-12/22/06. I hope they are wrong! I can not wait to get this charger like all the rest of you. Maybe William from Maha can either confirm this or set the record straight. Sorry for the news.
> Dan


 
oh yeah sure........you guys get me all pumped up here, i just placed the order, and now i gotta wait?... .............i really don't care that much, but it looks like it'll be worth the wait.........be nice to see which cells in my groupings are sick.


----------



## meeshu

Like many new products, there is a chance that there is something wrong with them.

So, I might just wait a bit and see what reports of "problems" there are (if any) before committing to purchasing this charger.


----------



## summerwind

has anyone ever bought a Maha charger that first came out and then found it to be buggy?
with the exception of the 401 (which i feel is not accurate at times) i haven't had any problems.


----------



## Alex 007

Hello Folks!

I'm new in this lovely forum, & i'm very proud announcing to all of you that today I ordered from "Thomas Distribution" in Paris street in the state of Illinois, with the help of "Eugene"...TD staff... using the "Western Union" system, from Illinois to my home here in Israel this newer product...being the second Maha brand charger that I will own...my earlier is the MH-C401F...with the transformer for European users...which really I'm extremely proud & happy to use it...as also I still owning 26 Ni-Cd batteries, & this MH-C204F can charge such old type batteries, & my today ordered NO:huh2:

Yes after a series of Polemically mails...I comprehend that "TD"...ONLY ship the product via FedEx carriers...so folks all together C.I.F from Illinois to my sweet home cost me $:106.00. As I'm today a pensioner this amount is changing to our local Israeli currency a lot of money...!

OK...i do it...with my heart fully insure that will do the job 100% as intended...with my Ni-MH ample batteries collection from 1,800 till today 2,600 Mah ones

When will arrive & after a week at least I will inform to all of you my test:rock:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## FsTop

Thomas Distribution customer service told me this morning that they expect to be shipping the 9000 "early next week", since the 10th is on Sunday...


----------



## Alex 007

My dear FsTop,

OK...thank you so much...I think that first they will ship to US buyers, & after to overseas buyes like me...It's OK with me I'm not so really in hurry

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## N162E

Has anyone seen a downloadable manual for this charger anyplace?


----------



## EngrPaul

Good question. I'd like to see the instructions awhile. So far, I haven't found it.


----------



## Alex 007

Folks!

Why is to all of you TO IMPERATIVE...to read the manual first?

Maybe is a "Catch/Gimmick"...for so you will abler to read the instruction when you already acquired the unit

I hope that not so:lolsign:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## summerwind

in the words of a gadga-holic, i like to download and read the manuals for techical info that'll educate me well before i receive the gadget................


----------



## Alex 007

I agree/accord...I also like to do the same as you...but...as already I ordered...I will learn together with the unit...for good or bad

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## BVH

Reading the manuals is half the fun of gadgets! I couldn't hold out any longer and preordered a couple 9000's. No luck in finding the manual.


----------



## coppertrail

FsTop said:


> Thomas Distribution customer service told me this morning that they expect to be shipping the 9000 "early next week", since the 10th is on Sunday...


 This is great news, I'm expecting a RCR-123A 3.0V charger from Batteryspace around Wed. of next week. Maybe they'll arrive within a day of each other


----------



## Alex 007

Dear BVH!

What I read is that you order a "FEW" chargers?

For what?

BTW...Since 1960 when I begun as a photographer (Hobby), till today when I'm 63 years old...I collect near 20 chargers...so this Maha Super Smart charger believe me...WILL BE MY LAST one.:lolsign:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## BVH

Alex007, "breaking in" new cells is a slow process and only being able to do 4 at a time is almost painful! With 2, I'll be able to do 8 at a time. This is my main reason for buying them.


----------



## Raybo

BVH said:


> Alex007, "breaking in" new cells is a slow process and only being able to do 4 at a time is almost painful! With 2, I'll be able to do 8 at a time. This is my main reason for buying them.



How important is breaking in new cells?

I don't think I have ever done this and I have several "good" chargers but it looks like i'm missing the boat on top of line chargers. How good is the 808M? The only reason i'm asking is because I just ordered one.

Ray


----------



## Alex 007

Dear BVH,

Yes I totally agreed...BUT..how many times you will buy new cells?:huh2:

Mine are already "Breaked In"

So one charger suffices me, & will do:goodjob:

Also...the shipment by fed ex it's very expensive...from US to israel...so one charger & be 100% sure will be my last one

Be 100% sure that we will chat after that will received & change among us opinions...of how work & if was worthy:touche:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Ray,

The 0.1C 14 hour charge is useful on new cells, cells that have been in storage, and should be done every 20 - 25 charge/discharge cycles. The purpose of the slow charge is to redistribute the electrolyte within the cell and lay down a uniform crystal base. It is kind of like wiping the board clean and starting afresh.

In soft to moderate use, the only benefit will be slightly longer run time and more cycle life. The real benefit comes from hard use with multi cells. Under these conditions, the cells will show a drastic increase in performance and will work better together.

The 808 is a great charger. It doesn't do this type of charge, but it comes very close with the condition/soft charge combination. You have to do it a couple of times to get the same effect.

On the other hand, if you use all of your cells up every week, run them to a full discharged state with every use, and replace them every 2 years, you will probably not see a huge benefit from this slow "forming" charge.

Tom


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Alex,

Welcome to CPF.

Even though your cells are "broken in," you can find an improvement in performance if you go through a full discharge, followed by a slow charge. I recommend doing this every 20-25 charge/discharge cycles, and it becomes more important if you only partially discharge.

I find my cells wear out after 3-4 years.

Tom


----------



## Alex 007

Hi Tom,

First of all have a nice working week, yes what you wrote is 100% true...today I use only my 2 years Maha MH-401F...which makes what you wrote, when in one of my flash collection a set of 4 batteries recharge the capacitor slowly, I change the whole set, & press on the C-401F the two bottoms so the "Discharge" procedure begins, & after that are discharged automatically turns to "red' to start the charge...till goes "Green"...I always wait at least one hour in "Green" led...to me sure that are 100% charged...today i went for the 3rd time to try to transfer the $:106.00 for this today's released C9000 super smart charge, & the "Western Union" employee here in Israel reject to make the transfer...as must be a Person name & not "Thomas Distribution"..I came back & drop a mail to the employee of "Thomas Distribution' named Eugene, who deal with me for my deal..still waiting for his response...if he can be the person that must go to any Post office near where "Thomas Distribution" is located with his ID to cash the money. Don't worry Tom, I will inform to all of you what really happen with my deal.
Thanks so much for your heart fully welcome to this lovely forum, I'm also member at "Steve digicams' forum.

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Alex,

With NiMh cells and a "smart" independent channel charger, you don't have to do a full discharge every time. You will get an improvement in cycle life if you don't fully discharge every time. The balance is figuring out when to do a full discharge. With your flash, it will depend on how much you use it. If you use a set of batteries once a month (or less), you can get by with only doing a full discharge once per year. Pick a special day and add to that day's activity a full discharge and charge on your batteries.

I tend to do it twice a year. Once before the holiday season, and the other at the begining of summer.

Good luck with your order. If I can help, let me know.

Tom


----------



## Alex 007

Dear Tom,

First of all Thanks so much for your noble effort...I will announce you...when I will receive a response from the "TD" employee.

Second just I learn something that I don't knew yet...yes...is also true that I use my 12 sets of batteries not so often now that I almost can walk, amazing after so many years I ample my collection of NICD + today only I buy NIMH ones...the olds ones Nickel cadmium now I keep them inside the freezer, for retard their discharge & twice a year with my Maha MH-C401F I discharge & charge them...it's "A Home Job" for two days at least.

Alex 007


----------



## coppertrail

*Updated Arrival Info From Thomas Distributing*

From Thomas-Distributing:

Our original expected date was about Dec 10th. This date was a rough estimate considering the uncertainness of shipping times during the Holiday season.. 
We are now have a better idea, and are expecting our shipment of the first MH-C9000 chargers within the next 8 to 12 days.
Again this will depend on the how well the shipping goes and how long it takes for the first shipment to clear US Customs.
We should have a more definite date within the next few days.
We will keep our site posted so as to keep you up to date.


----------



## dekelsey61

Coppertrail, Did you see my post(#144) that I talked to Maha on 12-7-06. They expected shipping 12-20 to 12-22. Check it out. I did see the update from Thomas Dist. It is true to what Maha is saying and what Maha is saying. Maha also told me that the chargers have not even reached customs yet. That could take a little bit to clear. Hope not to long. I can't wait for my charger also.
Dan


----------



## coppertrail

I did indeed see your post, and it was right on the money. I just happened to see this update on the TD website this evening.


----------



## N162E

It sure would be great if we could have the manual while we are waiting for the product!! Hint hint, anybody listening. :candle:  :thumbsup:


----------



## Alex 007

Dear Tom,

After digging at "Thomas Distribution" web, I change my mind...tomorrow I will order the "La Cosse BC-900 new "Improved" charger, as for the same amount of money I will obtain much more value for my money...the shipment handling remain the same $:47.00, but as this "La Crosse BC-900 charger cost less I will receive 8 batteries 4 AA 2400mAH + 4 AAA 850mAH, case, battery tester, C & D adapters. a holder for 8 batteries, + a deal for the remaining $:10.00 of the difference among this La crosse & Maha charger, near a half dozen of more plastic batteries containers + 4 more 2100Mah NiMh batteries.:huh2:

What is your cute/went through advice Tom?:lolsign:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Alex,

You need to go back to the beginning of this thread and read through it again.

The BC-900 is a good charger, but the Wizard One has more features and seems to be better designed. Lots of us already have, and have been using, the BC-900, but we kept finding things that could have been done better. Maha stepped up to the plate and the Wizard One should take care of all of the "issues" we had with the BC-900.

If you need batteries and adapters, the BC-900 package may be the best way to go. You should also keep in mind that no one has seen the Wizard One. The specifications look very good, but nobody has tried one out to report if it is as good as Maha says it is. I think there is minimal risk in ordering it, but still, there is risk.

Tom


----------



## Alex 007

Dear Tom!

I decided to go for the BC-900 Improved...as already I own a Maha MH-C401F, the "Value for my Money"...of the BC-900 Improved, will suffice my needs.
Of course...I will inform you how happy or unhappy I'm with the unit.

peace,

ALEX!


----------



## Alex 007

Dear Tom,

Just received from Maha this mail!

On 12/11/06, James Wang (MAHA ENERGY LAVERNE) <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Alex:

Many thanks for your support all the time. The New C9000 charger and
analyzer will be available in the end of this month. Please check our
website at www.mahaenergy.com
and see if it is available. Thanks & Best regards.

James
Maha Energy Corp.

Peace,

ALEX!


----------



## BentHeadTX

Alex 007 said:


> Many thanks for your support all the time. The New C9000 charger and
> analyzer will be available in the end of this month. Please check our
> website at www.mahaenergy.com
> and see if it is available. Thanks & Best regards.
> 
> James
> Maha Energy Corp.



Hmmm, all the good stuff (Crees, heat sinks, regulators and battery analyzers) are delayed this time of year. On the positive side, my wife can get me one for my birthday in February.  Guess the BC-900 will have to do for another month or two. 

Thanks for the update, Alex


----------



## Alex 007

Dear BentHeadTX,

Sorry that I don't comprehend so well, your mail...did you own a LaCrosse BC-900? It's the old one or the "Improved" one that tomorrow I will order?

How did you like it...I decided to change my favorite brand Maha, as this if i recall well it's "Near' the same in the features that the soon to be sell Maha MH-C9000, for me as I can named "Best Value for my Money":lolsign:

My best wishes & peace,

Alex 007


----------



## dennisthomas

Hello All

We have posted the Operating Manual for the Maha MH-C9000.


http://www.thomas-distributing.com/maha-mh-c9000-battery-charger.php


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Dennis,

Thanks.

Tom


----------



## macdude22

Looks like a reasonably intuitive interface. One question, maybe I missed it in my skimming of the manaul but is there an easy way to have the same function on all 4 slots. On my BC-900 I can insert 4 batts then plug it in and select my mode(typically refresh or test) and it will apply that to all 4 slots. Not a big deal if it can't, just curious.


----------



## bfg9000

The manual says the default charge rate is 500mA which _"may not be suitable"_ and is specifically _"not recommended"_ for higher than 1500mAh cells (ie virtually all AAs on the market) because it _"may prevent the charger from terminating correctly."_ But why would this matter if the charging is (like the C808M), a pulsed duty cycle/fraction of the maximum 2A charge rate?

A default rate of 1000mA like the C800S would likely avoid a lot of button pressing (each slot _"will prompt for programming in the order in which the batteries are inserted"_ and _"if no key is pressed within five seconds, the charger will proceed to the default mode which is charging with 500mA rate."_), unless a default can be selected and saved (asked back in post #86). I don't mind charging at 500mA if that will work, or programming in a default rate even if I have to leave it plugged into a UPS, but it seems kind of odd that by default it's set up to charge only AAA cells...


----------



## bcwang

I certainly hope the default charge rate will work with any cells. Otherwise it suffers the same fate as the bc900 which resets to 200mah on a power outage and then cooks 2500mah cells.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Bcwang,

The BC-900 didn't cook cells by charging at 200 mA. You can put 2500 mAh cells on a 200 mA charge rate for a year and they will not heat up or melt down. GP even advertises that.

It appears that the BC-900 sufferers a component failure that puts it into its maximum charge mode that does not heed information from cell temperature or end of charge signals. The BC-900 may be set to 200 mA, but it seems to be charging at 1.5 - 1.8 amps. A 2500 mAh cell will cook when charged at those rates without termination.

I have it on good authority that the Maha MH-C9000 will not fail in this way.

Tom


----------



## BentHeadTX

I don't think there will be a problem with cooked cells. Each bay has four thermal sensors, max temp, max temp rise per minute, negative deltaV and maximum voltage shutoff. 

The goodness of the C9000 is not the default rate of charge and low charge rates don't destroy batteries. The CRITICAL reading is max temp rise per minute and max voltage shutoff. We have a Cadex at work and I have charged new PowerEx 2700mAH AA cells at 0.08C (216mA) To really confuse the analyzer I did the slooow charge with eight of the batteries in series. The pack was charging for hours on end and tripped max temp (45C) and rested until the temp fell to 35C and continued to charge and started to drop the mA to trickle (40mA) as the heat started to jump and terminated with max temp rise per minute and shutdown. 

Don't worry about a 500mA default charge, with max temp, max rise in temp per minute and max voltage limits you won't destroy your cells even if they don't trip -DeltaV. Don't fear low charge rates...fear lack of monitoring the cells correctly. I am going to get the C9000 analyzer myself, a $55 Cadex-type monitoring system? Good-bye BC-900 and all hail the new king. :thumbsup:


----------



## Mike abcd

I'm surprised that the temperature rise charge termination capability of the C9000 hasn't gotten more attention here. It's the biggest reason that I ordered one for me and one for a friend that I talked into it. Sanyo, Duracell, Energizer, etc have all been advising it as the preferred method for a while now as the "traditional" -dV/dt overcharges cells.

That said, they specify a 1 deg C rise per minute at a 1C charge rate. Since the Maha can't reach 1C with high capacity AA cells, I hope they set it up to terminate at slightly under 1 deg C / minute.

I'd love to see the manual for the charger to see if it also does the advised 1/2 hour .1 C top off charge and only does it after a delta T charge termination and not if charge is terminated by -dV/dt.

Chargers implementing temperature rise termination have been slow in appearing. I have a Lenmar Mach 1 that does it but it significantly undercharges cells. 2500 mAH AA cells charge to 75-80% but 850 mAH AAA cells only charge to 60-65%, both compared to the BC-900.

BTW, for those slow charging at .1C, Duracell advises 120% charge input, ie 12 hours at .1C for a fully discharged cell. I ran a test at 200 mAH in the BC-900 on a fully discharged cell (.9V cutood at 100 maH) and got the same capacity measurement as when fast charging on the BC-900.

Mike


----------



## wptski

SilverFox said:


> Hello Bcwang,
> 
> The BC-900 didn't cook cells by charging at 200 mA. You can put 2500 mAh cells on a 200 mA charge rate for a year and they will not heat up or melt down. GP even advertises that.
> 
> It appears that the BC-900 sufferers a component failure that puts it into its maximum charge mode that does not heed information from cell temperature or end of charge signals. The BC-900 may be set to 200 mA, but it seems to be charging at 1.5 - 1.8 amps. A 2500 mAh cell will cook when charged at those rates without termination.
> 
> I have it on good authority that the Maha MH-C9000 will not fail in this way.
> 
> Tom


Tom:

Isn't "without termination" the key phrase and not 1.5-1.8A? A 2500mAh cell should be able to handle that rate with no problem.

I had a cell on a E-15 one time while monitoring the voltage when I notice it miss termination, I grabbed an IR probe to read the temperature. You ought to see how fast temperature rises at +7A when it misses termination!  I think that this happened bacause I had it connected external to the charger and it errored. Instead of disconnecting the clamp, wires, scope, etc., I just unclamped/reclamped the cell and something happened with that, not sure just what though.


----------



## David M

*Re: Maha MH-C9000, the WizardOne Charger*







David M


----------



## N162E

dennisthomas said:


> Hello All
> 
> We have posted the Operating Manual for the Maha MH-C9000.
> 
> 
> http://www.thomas-distributing.com/maha-mh-c9000-battery-charger.php


Thank you Dennis.


----------



## EngrPaul

MANUAL DOWNLOADED AND PRINTED!!!


----------



## Turbo DV8

Devil's Advocate, here. So, just how prudent is it to jump and pre-order from the first of a production run of any entirely new electronic or mechanical product? To just, say, pull an example out of the hat at random... how many revisions does this make for the La Crosse now? Although always in search of the holy grail of battery chargers, the ones I have right now do the job well enough to persuade me to sit back and let the early adopters discover the kinks on their own dime, then let Maha address them. So please, please, please ... go ahead and pre-order the new Maha!


----------



## dennisthomas

bfg9000 said:


> The manual says the default charge rate is 500mA which _"may not be suitable"_ and is specifically _"not recommended"_ for higher than 1500mAh cells (ie virtually all AAs on the market) because it _"may prevent the charger from terminating correctly."_ But why would this matter if the charging is (like the C808M), a pulsed duty cycle/fraction of the maximum 2A charge rate?
> 
> A default rate of 1000mA like the C800S would likely avoid a lot of button pressing (each slot _"will prompt for programming in the order in which the batteries are inserted"_ and _"if no key is pressed within five seconds, the charger will proceed to the default mode which is charging with 500mA rate."_), unless a default can be selected and saved (asked back in post #86). I don't mind charging at 500mA if that will work, or programming in a default rate even if I have to leave it plugged into a UPS, but it seems kind of odd that by default it's set up to charge only AAA cells...


 

Hello all...

Just an update to let everyone know that the default charging rate for the MH-C9000 is actually 1000mA. There was a typo in the first manual. We have posted the latest updated version on our site.

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/maha/mh-c9000-charger/MHC9000_MANUAL.pdf

Happy Holidays - Dennis


----------



## Alex 007

Dear Turbo DV8,

Thanks you for your cute advise, but today I received a mail from "Thomas Distribution" employee that served my order, & he wrote me that my order for me "Best value for my Money" a La Crosse BC-900 "Improved" (Hope that NOW will perform with NO BUGS at ALL), as the Maha MH-C9000 as you wrote it's something new...maybe will happen as happen with the BC-900 that will need "Corrections"...or some improvements...till will be 100% reliable as like the BC-900 to much "Electronics" inside...not always make the product "RELIABLE"...:huh2:

Be 100% sure that I will continue reading in this forum all the inputs on the soon to be marketed Maha MH-C9000 Super Smart charger

Best wishes for all of you for the all Holidays:naughty:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## DanB

I have a BC 900 charger. I always use the same setting when I put a batch of batteries in the charger, most of the time in batch of 4. I never had to have different settings for differents slots since the batteries that I have to charge/refresh all do the same job.

From the user manual, it seems that I would have a lot of button pushing to do if I don't want the basic setup. My BC 900 lets me use a different setting for each slot if I want (but never had to!), but I can also set up all the slots at once easily. For me, it seems to be a huge disadvantage of the MH-C9000. I don't want to lose half an hour each time I want something else than the default setting.

Also, I prefer de default setting of 200 mA of the BC-900 rather than the 1000 mA setting of the Maha. Most of the time, I charge the batteries overnight.

I don't see much improvement in the capabilties VS the BC 900, but much more work to get what you want from the charger...

Beeing able to set all 4 slots at once would have be very usefull.


----------



## bfg9000

dennisthomas said:


> Hello all...
> 
> Just an update to let everyone know that the default charging rate for the MH-C9000 is actually 1000mA. There was a typo in the first manual. We have posted the latest updated version on our site.
> 
> http://www.thomas-distributing.com/maha/mh-c9000-charger/MHC9000_MANUAL.pdf
> 
> Happy Holidays - Dennis


 Yay!



It's looking like the C9000 will be the fabulously well designed product we expected from Maha, even if it does come with the... um, traditional Maha manual problems



(ask Sub_Umbra). But no matter because we'll learn all about the secret undocumented features right here on CPF!

BTW the standard boilerplate warning is still there in manual v2.0: 


> If no key is pressed within five seconds, the charger will proceed to the default mode which is charging with 1000mA rate.
> 
> NOTE: the default mode may not be suitable for battery lower than 500mAh and higher than 1500mAh. See "General Battery Education" for more details.


 Where else but here are you going to find a bunch of people willing to proofread the manual for a _battery charger_ for free?


----------



## SilverFox

Hello DanB,

Welcome to CPF.

I am not sure the button pressing will be all that bad...

I remember that old phone numbers were 5 digits. We then went to a 7 digit system and everyone thought the world was going to end because we had to press a few extra digits. Now we have 10 (or 11) digit calling and no one thinks twice about it.

Since it is all speculation at this time, it will be interesting to see if it turns out to be an issue at all.

As far as increased capabilities go, try charging at 2.0 amps, discharging at 1.0 amps, and forming at 0.1C on the BC-900...

The BC-900 is a great charger, however the Wizard One should be better.

Tom


----------



## AndyTiedye

It wasn't "press" back then. It was rotary dial.
click-click-click click-click-click-click click-click-click-click-click click-click click-click-click-click-click-click-click-click click-click-click-click click-click-click click-click-click-click click-click-click-click-click click-click click-click-click-click-click-click-click


----------



## coppertrail

Turbo DV8 said:


> Devil's Advocate, here. So, just how prudent is it to jump and pre-order from the first of a production run of any entirely new electronic or mechanical product? To just, say, pull an example out of the hat at random... how many revisions does this make for the La Crosse now? Although always in search of the holy grail of battery chargers, the ones I have right now do the job well enough to persuade me to sit back and let the early adopters discover the kinks on their own dime, then let Maha address them. So please, please, please ... go ahead and pre-order the new Maha!


I've not come across any cases where a Maha charger had problems out of the gate, leading to them making a revised version of the product. All of the reviews I've read about their chargers have been positive and I own 3 of them.

Sure, there's a risk with purchasing something that's brand new, but people do it every day. If there's a problem with it, we have the option of returning the product. 

I wasn't going to dual boot my main PC with Fedora Core 6 Linux because of it's "newness" and pre-release problems that were reported. I did, and am very happy with the results.

Just my 2 cents, good point though


----------



## DanB

Hello!

I just don't know why we should set each slot manually while most of the time we use the same settings for all 4. I don't like things beeing hard to use when there's no advantage at beeing so, even more when it seems simple to make it easy to use. I hate doing repetitive dumb jobs!

I use my BC 900 to charge batteries most of the time. Sometimes, I use it to refresh old batteries. In both cases, a fast and a slow speed is somewhat all I need. I would accept 5 rather than 10 settings in exchange of a select all function. I'm pretty sure I'll use a lot more the select all function than the 7th setting! But I'm pretty sure we can get a select all function AND 10 settings. There should be a way to get a fast and easy setup. (My Mac has a graphic interface wich is really easy to use and a command line interface for the few that want it)

7 to 10 digits is less than 50% more. Now we talk about 4 times more clicking!

How many click would you have to do to charge at 2A, discharge at 1A, and form at 0.1C. And how many of them would you save just by selecting all slots? Let's simulate it!!!

Bye


----------



## Alex 007

Hello to all of you!

Waiting, for my BC-900 unit, I received from the nice "T-D" employee, that himself check my already sent unit & has the V-33 firmware...all works well...as he wrote me, he announce me also that add some 8 & 4 batteries holders as a Christmas gift...free of charge...among us my first time that I received such amazing sales service...I think that I will continue my loyalty to Thomas Distribution.

Peace,

ALEX!


----------



## Coop

This charger would be a nice addition to my triton... but the $35 international shipping kind of kills the deal....


----------



## Alex 007

Dear My Cooper,

I live in Israel I payed $:47.00 to "Thomas Distribution"...for the shipment of my ordered LaCosse BC-900 Improved!

So...when you want something...need to accept the store policies:huh2:

As I ask them to send with a "Cheaper" shipment...NO...NO...:touche: Only with FedEx way

So...I accepted...the handling & shipment cost me ONE DOLLAR less that the LaCrosse BC-900 charger:lolsign:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## Coop

Well, I'm not a very rich man, so I tend to look for ways to save money. Shippingcost is something I often have to deal with, but I prefer to spend my money on products, not on the shipping of products. 

$37 shipping for a $60 charger is just too much, when that same charger can be sent via USPS GPM for under $15. Ok, it can't be insured, but I have a 100% receive rate for GPM shipments, and on a $60 product, I'm willing to take the risk.


----------



## Alex 007

Dear MyCooper,

Yes I'm also a pensioner. But I check at La Crosse web, & they ask for the same charger $:79.00 when "Thomas Distribution"...sell the same item for $:49.00, again they work ONLY with this expensive shipment system

OK...I really hope...that will be my last charger:lolsign:

During my 40 years of been a technical photographer today I have a large collection of chargers... sufficiency

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## Brum

Alex 007 said:


> Dear MyCooper,
> 
> Yes I'm also a pensioner. But I check at La Crosse web, & they ask for the same charger $:79.00 when "Thomas Distribution"...sell the same item for $:49.00, again they work ONLY with this expensive shipment system
> 
> OK...I really hope...that will be my last charger:lolsign:
> 
> During my 40 years of been a technical photographer today I have a large collection of chargers... sufficiency
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Alex 007


Alex, I hope this isnt too late: a CPF member does have a int'nl package forwarding service, so you let the company your buying from ship the package to him and he ships it out to you, at a normale rate.

Check: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=141638


----------



## Alex 007

Dear Brum,

It's to late...as already was sent...next time!

Thank you so much for your information,

Have a nice Holidays,

Peace,

ALEX!


----------



## coppertrail

I spoke with Thomas Distributing today regarding the MH-C9000. He informed me that they "already have a bunch in", and are awaiting the final batch before they get them out to the pre-order customers. He said they hope to begin shipping them to customers "early next week"


----------



## EngrPaul

HO HO HO!!!


----------



## wptski

coppertrail said:


> I spoke with Thomas Distributing today regarding the MH-C9000. He informed me that they "already have a bunch in", and are awaiting the final batch before they get them out to the pre-order customers. He said they hope to begin shipping them to customers "early next week"


Why would they wait till they get them all to ship??


----------



## Alex 007

Hi Bill,

Maybe this will explain the delay!?

Just received from Maha this mail!

On 12/11/06, James Wang (MAHA ENERGY LAVERNE) <[email protected]> wrote:

Dear Alex:

Many thanks for your support all the time. The New C9000 charger and
analyzer will be available in the end of this month. Please check our
website at www.mahaenergy.com
and see if it is available. Thanks & Best regards.

James
Maha Energy Corp.

Peace,

ALEX!


----------



## N162E

Alex 007 said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> Maybe this will explain the delay!?
> 
> Just received from Maha this mail!
> 
> On 12/11/06, James Wang (MAHA ENERGY LAVERNE) <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Dear Alex:
> 
> Many thanks for your support all the time. The New C9000 charger and
> analyzer will be available in the end of this month. Please check our
> website at www.mahaenergy.com
> and see if it is available. Thanks & Best regards.
> 
> James
> Maha Energy Corp.
> 
> Peace,
> 
> ALEX!


"Oh my" that explains everything.


----------



## wptski

Alex 007 said:


> Hi Bill,
> 
> Maybe this will explain the delay!?
> 
> Just received from Maha this mail!
> 
> On 12/11/06, James Wang (MAHA ENERGY LAVERNE) <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Dear Alex:
> 
> Many thanks for your support all the time. The New C9000 charger and
> analyzer will be available in the end of this month. Please check our
> website at www.mahaenergy.com
> and see if it is available. Thanks & Best regards.
> 
> James
> Maha Energy Corp.
> 
> Peace,
> 
> ALEX!


That doesn't explain the reason that TD has part of their order in but are waiting till they are all in before filling orders! I'd rather hear that they have nothing yet. Are they waiting for the worse time of the year to ship??

It isn't a life or death situation but I've never heard of "not" shipping what you can.


----------



## Alex 007

Dear Bill,

Yes I also don't understand their Way to do Business Deal...:huh2:

As at the end of the month...the Shipment matter will be extremely busy...also, this is one of my selection why I accepted to order instead this possibility "Better Charger", the Improved La Crosse BC-900 among; that is to me "A better value for my money".

Still waiting for the local carrier to bring it to my home:huh2:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## wptski

I wonder if it's something to do with the end of the year? Sales, income tax, bookkeeping, etc. I the auto companies worked this way too, I'd be out of a job!


----------



## Alex 007

Hi Bill,

Yes I forgot:lolsign:

Be patiently...:huh2:

A happy new 2007 year

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## BentHeadTX

When TD offers Eneloops and I wonder why they don't :huh: I will order the C9000 with a dozen AAs and 4 AAAs. Since I am on the other side of the planet, I prefer to order several things I need at once. At least I'll get the reviews to read while I patiently wait...


----------



## JackJ

BentHeadTX said:


> When TD offers Eneloops and I wonder why they don't :huh: I will order the C9000 with a dozen AAs and 4 AAAs.


 
TD does indeed offer Eneloops! Scroll down a bit here:

http://www.thomas-distributing.com/sanyo-batteries.php

Jack


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

Got my Eneloops from here:

http://www.hhgregg.com/productlisting.asp?&CategoryName=Batteries&CategoryID=140

4AA for $9.99, free UPS shipping. UPS tried to deliver them today, but I wasn't home. Have to wait until Monday. Rats.


----------



## wptski

EvilLithiumMan said:


> Got my Eneloops from here:
> 
> http://www.hhgregg.com/productlisting.asp?&CategoryName=Batteries&CategoryID=140
> 
> 4AA for $9.99, free UPS shipping. UPS tried to deliver them today, but I wasn't home. Have to wait until Monday. Rats.


Got to sign for a few packs of batteries? That's stupid!


----------



## coppertrail

wptski said:


> Why would they wait till they get them all to ship??


Not sure, but those were his exact words.


----------



## coppertrail

BentHeadTX said:


> When TD offers Eneloops and I wonder why they don't :huh: I will order the C9000 with a dozen AAs and 4 AAAs. Since I am on the other side of the planet, I prefer to order several things I need at once. At least I'll get the reviews to read while I patiently wait...


Why would you order them from TD when you can get 20 Eneloop AAs shipped for $46 shipped from Ritz Camera (this includes the $20 Google Checkout Discount). I feel TDs eneloop price is rediculous.


----------



## wptski

coppertrail said:


> Why would you order them from TD when you can get 20 Eneloop AAs shipped for $46 shipped from Ritz Camera (this includes the $20 Google Checkout Discount). I feel TDs eneloop price is rediculous.


That's not the only rediculous thing about TD lately!


----------



## tvman

Anyone know the difference in the hhgregg.com batts for $9.99 and $7.99 Sanyo Eneloop 4-Pack?


----------



## Brock

AA and AAA size


----------



## tvman

thanks brock. I am jumping back and forth between here and trying to repair corrupted SQL table values keeping me from visibly seeing Vertias jobs. The jobs are not editable or visible (just a blue block in the job setup) in the job setup and only appear when they are running. I have to reset table field value(s).


----------



## RobSpook

tvman said:


> Anyone know the difference in the hhgregg.com batts for $9.99 and $7.99 Sanyo Eneloop 4-Pack?



Refer back to post #220 before buying from HHGREG!


----------



## Sub_Umbra

Suppose you plug in the AC adaptor for the Maha MH-C9000, and program _Discharging Current, Charging Current, number of cycles, etc,_ and the machine is working -- *what happens if the power blinks off for ½ second at any time before the completion of the program?*


----------



## summerwind

and i thought waiting for a new DSLR camera body to come out was bad...........


----------



## N162E

summerwind said:


> and i thought waiting for a new DSLR camera body to come out was bad...........


SD-14 ????


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

Sub_Umbra said:


> Suppose you plug in the AC adaptor for the Maha MH-C9000, and program _Discharging Current, Charging Current, number of cycles, etc,_ and the machine is working -- *what happens if the power blinks off for ½ second at any time before the completion of the program?*



(Ooh-ooh, pick me, pick me!)






I have a line dropout generator, and the maximum setting is 500ms. I hooked it up to my computer and found it would still run with a 250ms (1/4 second) dropout. I think my computer rebooted somewhere around 300ms. Anyway, good question. I'll test it when my C9000 arrives.


----------



## thekobk

I hate to sound to negative but is td ever going to update the expected shipping info. I thought I would have this thing by now and if it wasn’t for this forum I would not have had any ideas of the delay.

:thumbsdow


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

thekobk said:


> I hate to sound to negative but is td ever going to update the expected shipping info. I thought I would have this thing by now and if it wasn’t for this forum I would not have had any ideas of the delay.
> 
> :thumbsdow



I don't expect to have mine before the end of the year. Try to be patient. Or you cancel your order, get a refund and wait until it's a shipping product.

And speaking of sounding negative: My biggest fear is that this is a new and untested charger, and while I want one as soon as possible, I'm going to be pissed if 3 months from now "Version 2" of the C9000 comes out because the initial release had bugs. There are advantages to waiting.

"Pioneers - they're the ones with the arrows in their backs"


----------



## summerwind

N162E said:


> SD-14 ????


 
that's gonna be a sweet camera.

i use a canon 5D and 30D.........i wait 3-5 months after release, as every body from Canon has a bug or two.............

i turst Maha though, and my experience with TD has been excellent as they have replaced sets of batteries even though they were a year and a half old.
never had any problems with their chargers.


----------



## EngrPaul

EvilLithiumMan said:


> "Pioneers - they're the ones with the arrows in their backs"


 
:lolsign:


----------



## coppertrail

thekobk said:


> I hate to sound to negative but is td ever going to update the expected shipping info. I thought I would have this thing by now and if it wasn’t for this forum I would not have had any ideas of the delay.
> 
> :thumbsdow


I submitted a post a bit earlier in this thread. When I called on Thursday, I was told that they have a some C9000s in, but they're awaiting a final shipment before sending them out to the pre-order customers. He said they're hoping to ship them out "Early next week", which I'm hoping is Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## Alex 007

My dear Folks!

Today i received my ordered LaCorsse BC-900 "Improved' charger came with the last V-33 firmware, I shoot some photos of "My Way" to assure myself that if something will go badly..., (I think that with this newer firmware...don't!:goodjob but you will see how I allow much better ventilation to the base of the charger & you will also see that maybe in this improved one...(Really I never saw a BC-900 in my country Israel), also the batteries place allow much better ventilation!:goodjob:

http://mail.google.com/mail/?disp=imgs&view=att&th=10f90b65e222467c

BTW..at "Steve Digicams" forums it's possible to attach photos...I hope that as I do it also will be possible to all of you to look my photos!:lolsign:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## summerwind

hey, all you guys that have preordered the C9000, if you used Credit Card, did your card already get charged?

i'm asking as i have another deal going on some stuff and don't want this charge suddenly coming up and blowing my other deal...............just so you know, the credit card i use for toys is one account for my toys, but only the wife knows how to look up how much i always have on it..(don't go there  ), and shes gone for the day.


----------



## wptski

summerwind said:


> hey, all you guys that have preordered the C9000, if you used Credit Card, did your card already get charged?
> 
> i'm asking as i have another deal going on some stuff and don't want this charge suddenly coming up and blowing my other deal...............just so you know, the credit card i use for toys is one account for my toys, but only the wife knows how to look up how much i always have on it..(don't go there  ), and shes gone for the day.


I myself used PayPal, so they got their money weeks ago. I'd say from what I've read here that TD is going to sit on these till after the New Year for some reason. Since they have some but are waiting for the rest of their order to start shipping so they say, what reason could they have to wait?


----------



## dekelsey61

Summerwind,
I preordered my C-9000 charger from Thomas Dist. If you use your credit card number it will not be charged until they ship. If you use Paypal(Like I did) it is charged when you preorder. My card was charged on 11/9/06. That is what Thomas Dist. told me.
Dan


----------



## BVH

No charge on my card yet as of this morning. :mecry:


----------



## summerwind

thx guys..............i have a deal pending from Switzerland, and i don't want to chance it being fouled up.
may have to have TD hold up instead............LOL, i'm a "to die for new" toys, but i can wait.


----------



## thekobk

It would be nice if a few of us would have gotten the charger so we could report back to every one else about how it works.


----------



## summerwind

the only reason i can think of as to why TD hasn't shipped what they already received, is that they might be running one through some vigorous testing to make sure they don't have a bunch of returns.
i never looked into the BC900, but from the posts i have read during searches, it sounds like a few were returned.


----------



## dekelsey61

I don't understand if TD has recieved some of the chargers and not shipping them. I was also told late last week that they will begin to ship them on Mon. or Tues. of this week. Testing them I don't think so. They are tested for 24hours before they even leave the plant. Hoping for great news early this week.
Dan


----------



## coppertrail

I would suggest calling them tomorrow morning to obtain an updated status report. I doubt they're testing, they most likely received a model(s) to test weeks back if this were the case.


----------



## summerwind

deleted


----------



## summerwind

hehe...i was just giving them the benefit of the doubt..................i know with cameras, the suppliers have them before realeas day, but can't send them until then.
i feel all your frustrations though, as there wasn't a release date that i can find.

perhaps with all the members here that have preordered, they don't have nearly enough and don't want all the nasty phone calls............:laughing:


----------



## dekelsey61

Summerwind- I think you hit the nail on the head with you comment about not having enogh yet and getting phone calls. Dan


----------



## wptski

dekelsey61 said:


> Summerwind- I think you hit the nail on the head with you comment about not having enogh yet and getting phone calls. Dan


I think that we're smart enough here to understand "first come, first serve" or a waiting list! A person would be more inclined to get annoyed if they were #1 on the list but they had to wait till #50's on the list order could be filled also!


----------



## summerwind

yes, but in this case who knows where one is on the list..........LOL
i doubt anyone from this site will get there panties in a bunch..........but boy, the camera nutz i talk to would be in an uproar immediately, even asking for photos for proof.
i got a canon dslr 2 years ago 2 days before the release date via my local dealer, i posted about it and got chastized to hilt for it.
being new here, i will be happy to get one even if it's after the first of the year.


----------



## gdhumphreys

summerwind said:


> i got a canon dslr 2 years ago 2 days before the release date via my local dealer, i posted about it and got chastized to hilt for it.


 
Summerwind, was that on DPR? I remember something like that, and to say you were "chastized" is a huge understatement--those types of responses is one of the reasons I frequented other photography forums.


----------



## Alex 007

Folks!

Seems me that after reading, your post ALL of you DON'T SLEEP WELL...waiting for the C9000 charger...

You can't live or be more patiently

That's is my primary reason, why I decided to buy the LaCosse BC-900U...which for me satisfied/fulfilled all my needs & I really hope that will promise a:goodjob:

Be all of you my dear Chargers fans..that I will inform very elaborated the results with my acquired unit

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## RobSpook

Alex, since this thread is about the MAHA c9000 charger, maybe you should locate a BC-900 thread and continue your posts there. 

Respectfully,

RS


----------



## wptski

Alex 007 said:


> Folks!
> 
> Seems me that after reading, your post ALL of you DON'T SLEEP WELL...waiting for the C9000 charger...
> 
> You can't live or be more patiently
> 
> That's is my primary reason, why I decided to buy the LaCosse BC-900U...which for me satisfied/fulfilled all my needs & I really hope that will promise a:goodjob:
> 
> Be all of you my dear Chargers fans..that I will inform very elaborated the results with my acquired unit
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Alex 007


Alex:

I'm not losing any sleep over the C9000. If true that TD is holding back shipping what they have, I don't care for that!


----------



## jalther

HELP!
I would like to order the new battery charger MAHA c9000 if I feel I know how to use it.
Looking at the owners manual I need help understanding how you pick what rate to charge your batteries.
In the owners manual under GENERAL BATTERY EDUCATION is written.
"Choosing the right charging & discharging rate
Charging at a rate below 0.33C and above 1.0C is not
recommended.
Charging too slow may prevent the charger from terminating correctly.
Charging too fast may damage the battery."
So I took this to mean if my battery is 2000mah I should charge it > greater than 1/3 of the battery capacity but, not more that 100% of the battery capacity. So 1000mah is fine. RIGHT, the default setting.
But under the section OPERATIONS in step 4 this is what is written.
If no key is pressed within five seconds, the charger will proceed to
the default mode which is charging with 1000mA rate.
NOTE: the default mode may not be suitable for battery lower than
500mAh and higher than 1500mAh. See “General Battery
Education” for more details.
The lower I can understand, a 1000ma is twice the capacity of the battery but,
Why is 1000ma not good for a battery at 1500mah ? I don't understand the formual. Help. 
Please give me and example of how you would charge a 2000mah battery and we will assume its real capacity is 2000mah.
The manual never tells you the rate or formula to use for discharging the battery.
If you know a simple formal for this please let my know. 
Thanks.


----------



## wptski

jalther said:


> HELP!
> I would like to order the new battery charger MAHA c9000 if I feel I know how to use it.
> Looking at the owners manual I need help understanding how you pick what rate to charge your batteries.
> In the owners manual under GENERAL BATTERY EDUCATION is written.
> "Choosing the right charging & discharging rate
> Charging at a rate below 0.33C and above 1.0C is not
> recommended.
> Charging too slow may prevent the charger from terminating correctly.
> Charging too fast may damage the battery."
> So I took this to mean if my battery is 2000mah I should charge it > greater than 1/3 of the battery capacity but, not more that 100% of the battery capacity. So 1000mah is fine. RIGHT, the default setting.
> But under the section OPERATIONS in step 4 this is what is written.
> If no key is pressed within five seconds, the charger will proceed to
> the default mode which is charging with 1000mA rate.
> NOTE: the default mode may not be suitable for battery lower than
> 500mAh and higher than 1500mAh. See “General Battery
> Education” for more details.
> The lower I can understand, a 1000ma is twice the capacity of the battery but,
> Why is 1000ma not good for a battery at 1500mah ? I don't understand the formual. Help.
> Please give me and example of how you would charge a 2000mah battery and we will assume its real capacity is 2000mah.
> The manual never tells you the rate or formula to use for discharging the battery.
> If you know a simple formal for this please let my know.
> Thanks.


I haven't read the manual yet but it sounds like a mistake about the 1000ma for a 1500mAh cell as you should be able to charge at 1C or 1500ma. If you stay between .3C to 1C for both charge/discharge you'll be safe. If your charging real old cells, 1C might be a bit too and they may get too warm but if all is true about this charger, it should know that and stop for high temperature. It actually uses Dt/dt too, so if a cell is getting too warm, it should teminate before the cell get too hot.


----------



## Alex 007

RobSpook said:


> Alex, since this thread is about the MAHA c9000 charger, maybe you should locate a BC-900 thread and continue your posts there.
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> RS




Dear RobSpook,

Yes you are 100% right, as my dream was to own this newer Maha C9000, but after re-thinking, many times + the mail that I received from the Sales Dept of Maha that the charger will be available ONLY at the end of this month...++ as I live in Israel, during past time I had extremely bad experiences ordering something of photography or similarly items, from USA during Christmas Holidays...sincerely get lost & I lost a lot of money during the past...for so I definitively decided to get this LaCrosse BC-900 charger which was available for shipping NOW! Also be nice with me & send me the BC-900 link...so I will continue my posts there:goodjob:

Today I shoot a photo of the "battery tester"...that was included with my order!

http://mail.google.com/mail/?realattid=file0&attid=0.1&disp=inline&view=att&th=10f9593c09bdf7b2

Waiting for your noble action with me, my best wishes & thank you in advance :rock:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## N162E

wptski said:


> I haven't read the manual yet but it sounds like a mistake about the 1000ma for a 1500mAh cell as you should be able to charge at 1C or 1500ma. If you stay between .3C to 1C for both charge/discharge you'll be safe. If your charging real old cells, 1C might be a bit too and they may get too warm but if all is true about this charger, it should know that and stop for high temperature. It actually uses Dt/dt too, so if a cell is getting too warm, it should teminate before the cell get too hot.


Maybe one of us should actually get one of these chargers before we begin to analyze the problems with it.


----------



## wptski

N162E said:


> Maybe one of us should actually get one of these chargers before we begin to analyze the problems with it.


Fred:

It doesn't matter since this is a problem with the manual not the unit.


----------



## thekobk

Has any one called td to get an update yet? :huh2:


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

I kind of doubt they would tell you, but if anyone calls TD, ask them how many MH-C9000 have been pre-ordered. I'm pretty curious.


----------



## willchueh

Hello,

There was a mistake with the manual posted earlier - a revised version was posted but I think some of you still got the old one. 

This is the manual shipped with the unit: http://www.mahaenergy.com/download/mhc9000.pdf 

The default charging rate is 1000mA and is suitable for most batteries above 1000mAh. The reason for the "warning message" is certain "off-brand" batteries have improper chemical design, producing a very small (or no) negative delta V making it difficult to terminate. Of course, the charger is protected by over-temperature - but at this rate, the temperature may not exceed the maximum temperature. It was suprising to see that charging an off-brand battery to 10 times the capacity yielded temperature still okay to the touch by hand (< 50 deg C).

Hope this information helps.

William


----------



## not2bright

Alex 007 said:


> Also be nice with me & send me the BC-900 link...so I will continue my posts there:goodjob:



Alex 007, the thread is currently just above this one in the forum. Of if you prefer here is a link:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=103802


BTW, I too am on the pre-order list for the Maha.


----------



## edog45

I am on the pre-order list for this charger and called today at 4:30pm to see when my order would ship.

I was told that the chargers are in customs in Illinois and they are expecting to get them tomorrow afternoon and ship them out Wednesday to customers.


----------



## dekelsey61

Edog45-- When I called TD today they told me the same thing! If they start shipping Wednesday I should get mine Thursday since I live less than 2 hours from TD. Enjoy.
Dan


----------



## summerwind

i called to cancel and they said they were shipping tomorrow...............i said fine, but i still need to hold off now as i have an order pending at Zimmermann..........Doh!.....my luck


----------



## thekobk

Thanks for the updates guys!


----------



## coppertrail

dekelsey61 said:


> Edog45-- When I called TD today they told me the same thing! If they start shipping Wednesday I should get mine Thursday since I live less than 2 hours from TD. Enjoy.
> Dan


This is good news, but unless it gets here 2nd day, I won't get it until Tuesday.


----------



## wptski

What happened to the ones they already had? Or did they? Seems like TD is as confused as I am!


----------



## thekobk

Maybe they were just kidding about the delay and we will all get them in the mail tomorrow with some free batteries. Well it is almost charismas .


----------



## coppertrail

I'm confused as well. At this point, I'll know its on the way when I receive the shipping confirmation email.


----------



## N162E

thekobk said:


> Maybe they were just kidding about the delay and we will all get them in the mail tomorrow with some free batteries. Well it is almost charismas .


----------



## Alex 007

Good Luck...to all of you!

With my "Common Sense" selected LaCrosse BC-900U "Improved" (Received with the updated V-13 firmware), really I finish my 4 & half decades collecting chargers
This BC-900U is 100% for sure my last one:goodjob:

Happy holidays + enjoy your soon coming Maha C9000 charger

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## wptski

coppertrail said:


> This is good news, but unless it gets here 2nd day, I won't get it until Tuesday.


Standard shipping from TD for some time has been First Class USPS. However long that takes!


----------



## thekobk

New on TD site.*Latest update on the MH-C9000 Charger as of Monday 12-18-06 

*http://www.thomasdistributing.com/maha-mh-c9000-battery-charger.php</B> Great news.. The MH-C9000 chargers are currently in Customs and we are awaiting clearance before they are shipped the last 300 miles to our location. 
Our earliest expected ship date is Wednesday the 20th if all goes well.
Again this will depend on the how long it takes for the shipment to clear US Customs and how well the final shipping goes. 
We will keep our site posted so as to keep you up to date.
Please note that we will have only about 200 chargers left after we ship all pre-orders. The next shipment is not expected until some time in January.


----------



## Alex 007

wptski said:


> Standard shipping from TD for some time has been First Class USPS. However long that takes!



My order to Israel was carried by FedEx international economy

I ask to Eugene Thomas, NOT to make so expensive...he wrote me back that "It's the ONLY way...of shipment"...SO...ONLY the shipment cost me $:47.00 + another $:24.00 here for our local taxes + VAT.

I'm happy...that my acquired charger will be MY LAST ONE!:huh2:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## wptski

Alex 007 said:


> My order to Israel was carried by FedEx international economy
> 
> I ask to Eugene Thomas, NOT to make so expensive...he wrote me back that "It's the ONLY way...of shipment"...SO...ONLY the shipment cost me $:47.00 + another $:24.00 here for our local taxes + VAT.
> 
> I'm happy...that my acquired charger will be MY LAST ONE!:huh2:
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Alex 007


Alex:

I should have said, in the US.


----------



## Alex 007

wptski said:


> Alex:
> 
> I should have said, in the US.



Hello Bill,

I just enter to Maha web, & they announce that for Christmas, the shipment IS FREE...to US & Canada!:goodjob:

So...maybe it's better to all of you that live in US & Canada...to buy the soon coming C9000 charger, DIRECTLY from Maha...instead from "TD"...as I'm not 100% sure if they, (TD); offer for Christmas holiday...also the shipment to US & Canada FREE:huh2:

For me I think that the final price is the same for both of them

Or I'm wrong?

Good Luck!

Alex 007


----------



## wptski

Alex:

I don't think that TD offered Free Shipping or at least on pre-orders they didn't! Credit cards aren't charged till they ship but I used PayPal, so they got paid right then. TD "might" be selling at a small discount that offsets the Free Shipping but I'm not sure right at this moment.


----------



## Alex 007

wptski said:


> Alex:
> 
> I don't think that TD offered Free Shipping or at least on pre-orders they didn't! Credit cards aren't charged till they ship but I used PayPal, so they got paid right then. TD "might" be selling at a small discount that offsets the Free Shipping but I'm not sure right at this moment.



Dear Bill,

Look at Maha web!

:huh2: Just noticed, that you already pay with Paypal...so you MUST wait

Cheers,

Alex 007


----------



## Anders

Hello Alex.





This is from Maha:
http://shop.mahaenergy.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=423

*Price:* $69.95 *Model:* MH-C9000-0000GS *Availability:* In Stock * This product is not currently available online​
And this from Thomas distribution
* Your Price *$59.97 ea.


Anders


----------



## Alex 007

Anders said:


> Hello Alex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is from Maha:
> http://shop.mahaenergy.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=423
> 
> *Price:* $69.95 *Model:* MH-C9000-0000GS *Availability:* In Stock * This product is not currently available online​
> And this from Thomas distribution
> * Your Price *$59.97 ea.
> 
> 
> Anders



Hello Anders,

Yes TD is cheaper...BUT...what happen with the shipment?

Maha till end of the Holidays...their shipment is TOTALLY FREE in USA & Canada...to my knowledge!

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## RobSpook

This argument is silly... Alex, you purchased your charger and you said you are happy with it... Congrats! Can we please leave this thread for real news please?


----------



## Alex 007

RobSpook said:


> This argument is silly... Alex, you purchased your charger and you said you are happy with it... Congrats! Can we please leave this thread for real news please?



Me dear RobSpook,

Take note...that ONLY I reply to mails that is direct to me!

BTW...You begin also the tread concerning the Charger that I acquired, as you ALSO own the same one...but if I recall well you are NOT so happy with it?

Be extremely happy & please, don't worry more as I don't intend to add something in this specific tread

I will be very pleased if you can inform me WHY...you are NOT so happy with the same charger that I acquired...not here but in the BC-900 tread.

Thank you so much,

Happy New 2007 year!

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## wptski

RobSpook said:


> This argument is silly... Alex, you purchased your charger and you said you are happy with it... Congrats! Can we please leave this thread for real news please?


What argument???

Okay, who has received email notification of shipment? I think that I was one of the first few to pre-order but haven't heard anything! I did use PayPal instead of a credit card if that makes any difference.


----------



## coppertrail

wptski said:


> What argument???
> 
> Okay, who has received email notification of shipment? I think that I was one of the first few to pre-order but haven't heard anything! I did use PayPal instead of a credit card if that makes any difference.


 I pre-ordered the first day as well, I've neither received a shipping confirmation nor had a charge appear on my credit card.


----------



## coppertrail

Alex 007 said:


> Hello Bill,
> 
> I just enter to Maha web, & they announce that for Christmas, the shipment IS FREE...to US & Canada!:goodjob:
> 
> So...maybe it's better to all of you that live in US & Canada...to buy the soon coming C9000 charger, DIRECTLY from Maha...instead from "TD"...as I'm not 100% sure if they, (TD); offer for Christmas holiday...also the shipment to US & Canada FREE:huh2:
> 
> For me I think that the final price is the same for both of them
> 
> Or I'm wrong?
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> Alex 007


 Alex - This wouldn't be a better deal if you live in the United States. You see, Maha is selling it for $69.99, which does not include the free battery cases and carrying case. 

I pre-ordered from TD, and my total for the charger, case, (2) 8 cell AA battery cases, and shipping was $68, still less than Maha's list price for the charger alone. This might be a better deal for folks who live in Canada.


----------



## N162E

wptski said:


> Okay, who has received email notification of shipment? I think that I was one of the first few to pre-order but haven't heard anything! I did use PayPal instead of a credit card if that makes any difference.


Give them a call Bill. They are real live people who understand the evil of flashoholism and are very helpful on the phone. You may need to point out your pre-payment with Paypal.


----------



## dennisthomas

Hello Everyone

 I wanted to take this opportunity to address the current status of the MH-C9000 Chargers.

 As of 2:00 PM today Dec 19th, we have not received confirmation that the MH-C9000 had cleared customs and picked by the forwarder for final delivery to our location.

 Seems there was some type of paperwork error that needed to be corrected before they could be processed through Customs. We were advised at 11:00 AM today that this error was being corrected and we would receive confirmation when everything was finalized.

 Also I have been in contact with the President of Maha Energy and was asked by him to correct some information that was posted earlier concerning FREE shipping by them.
 The information about FREE shipping is incorrect as posted. Maha does offer Free Shipping on orders exceeding $150.00, otherwise orders under $150.00 standard shipping applies.

 Thomas Distributing also offers the same FREE shipping offer on orders over $150.00. 

 Dennis


----------



## dekelsey61

Dennis, Thank you for the update. Can not wait to get my charger from you. 
MERRY CHRISTMAS!! Thanks.
Dan


----------



## EngrPaul

Hi Dennis,

Do you have enough chargers on the way to fulfill all the pre-orders, or just up to a certain point? If not, what is the cutoff?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## dennisthomas

At the present time we will have about 190 chargers still available after we fill all pre-orders.

Dennis


----------



## dekelsey61

Engrpaul, On TD website it stated that after they shipped all the preorders they would have 200 chargers left and no more to come in until some time in January.
Dan


----------



## coppertrail

Thanks for the update Dennis, greatly appreciated. Good things come to those who wait


----------



## Alex 007

dennisthomas said:


> Hello Everyone
> 
> I wanted to take this opportunity to address the current status of the MH-C9000 Chargers.
> 
> As of 2:00 PM today Dec 19th, we have not received confirmation that the MH-C9000 had cleared customs and picked by the forwarder for final delivery to our location.
> 
> Seems there was some type of paperwork error that needed to be corrected before they could be processed through Customs. We were advised at 11:00 AM today that this error was being corrected and we would receive confirmation when everything was finalized.
> 
> Also I have been in contact with the President of Maha Energy and was asked by him to correct some information that was posted earlier concerning FREE shipping by them.
> The information about FREE shipping is incorrect as posted. Maha does offer Free Shipping on orders exceeding $150.00, otherwise orders under $150.00 standard shipping applies.
> 
> Thomas Distributing also offers the same FREE shipping offer on orders over $150.00.
> 
> Dennis



Hi Dennis,

SORRY!....for my wrong mail...YES...as you wrote is 100% true!

& please say to Eugene, my best Wishes...& a million of thanks for your superlative service with me he do an excellent:goodjob:

Peace, & for all of you have a lovely 2007 year!

Alex 007


----------



## EngrPaul

Fantastic, thanks for the quick replies


----------



## dennisthomas

Hello Alex

I will give Eugene your message.

We want to wish you a very happy holiday season also, as well as all on Candle Power Forums. 

Thanks again ! 

Dennis


----------



## dennisthomas

dekelsey61 said:


> Dennis, Thank you for the update. Can not wait to get my charger from you.
> MERRY CHRISTMAS!! Thanks.
> Dan



Hello Dan

Thank you, and we hope you also have a very Nice Holiday Season.

We also have only seen the MH-C9000 in pictures and have not had one in our hands either. This will be a first for us also.


Dennis


----------



## dekelsey61

Thank you Dennis- It should be a great charger. I live near Peoria so I hope to get mine really soon. Tell everyone at TD MERRY CHRISTMAS!! I have bought many things from you guys and you have always been FANTASTIC!!
Dan


----------



## thekobk

TD Update!!! *Latest update on the MH-C9000 Charger as of Wednesday 12-20-06 *

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/maha-mh-c9000-battery-charger.php</B> We were notified that all chargers have finally cleared Customs.
We are still awaiting notification from the forwarder as to when we will receive delivery. 

We will keep our site posted so as to keep you up to date.
Please note that we will have only about 175 chargers left after we ship all pre-orders. The next shipment is not expected until some time in January. 
Thank you !


----------



## thekobk

Now TD says thay havent cleared again?:huh2:


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

Where did you get your information? I just cleared my browser's cache and went to the TD site. The update links says they haven't cleared customs.







Naturally, I do hope they have cleared customs. But even with that, they still have to be transported 300 miles to TD, packed, labeled and shipped. I hope at least some of the CPF'ers closer to TD have their C9000 before xmas. Looks like I'll have to wait through the holiday.


----------



## thekobk

Cut and pasted from td site. I wonder if someone made a mistake?


----------



## dekelsey61

Hi, Anyone have a more updated update on the customs issue on the c9000 charger besides what is on TD website as of 10am this morning. Maybe Dennis will see this and give us all a update this evening. Maybe good news!! Hope so!!
Dan


----------



## summerwind

well all i know is i couldn't stand it anymore once i saw how the next shipment may not be till January or later.........i reordered, and really hoped to have it by this weekend(yeah i know, the kid in me), but now it's back to waiting. sometimes i wish websites would just wait till they have the product to post it.


----------



## coppertrail

It would be nice to have it before the weekend, but not necessary. I'm sure once they come in, they'll get them out quickly. I've always had great service from TD.


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

coppertrail said:


> It would be nice to have it before the weekend, but not necessary. I'm sure once they come in, they'll get them out quickly. I've always had great service from TD.



I agree. And while I'm sure TD is happy to have many CPFer's as satisified customers, I'd hate to pester them to the point that we sound like kids in the car's back seat:

"ARE WE THERE YET?"


----------



## coppertrail

Chargers are scheduled to arrive @ TD tomorrow morning (12/22) @ 9:00 AM:

We were notified that the chargers have finally cleared customs this afternoon.
We have been notified by the forwarder that delivery to our location is estimated to be at 9:00 AM Friday morning 12-22-06.


----------



## summerwind

same note i received from Eugene at TD.......cool, be able to check a lot of batteries out next week while i'm on vacation.





coppertrail said:


> Chargers are scheduled to arrive @ TD tomorrow morning (12/22) @ 9:00 AM:
> 
> We were notified that the chargers have finally cleared customs this afternoon.
> We have been notified by the forwarder that delivery to our location is estimated to be at 9:00 AM Friday morning 12-22-06.


----------



## dennisthomas

Hello Everyone

I just arrived back and I see that you have seen our latest update on the MH-C9000 chargers. We are going to attempt to get all orders shipped tommorow - Friday 12-22-06, as long as they arrive as scheduled. 

I also have some testing information that was forwarded to us from Maha Energy. 

During some tests on the MH-C9000 charger, the factory technicians attempted to charge some Maha 2000 mAh Batteries using the NEW Battery Break in feature. These batteries were over 5 years old, showed 0 volts when checked. Basically they were declared legally dead for all intent and purposes and normally should have been thrown away. 

Yet these batteries were actually revived to around 1400 mAh by the MH-C9000 charger. Amazing.  

Anyway , we will keep our site posted. 

Happy Holidays to all.

.


----------



## bfg9000

Yay! This is great news!


dennisthomas said:


> During some tests on the MH-C9000 charger, the factory technicians attempted to charge some Maha 2000 mAh Batteries using the NEW Battery Break in feature. These batteries were over 5 years old


 Umm, weren't the 2000mAh Maha PowerEx cells first announced on December 23rd, 2002?


----------



## Alex 007

Hello Folks!

Some tips!

 [font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) Batteries 
Ni-MH batteries typically provide at least 30% more talk time than Ni-cd batteries. While still susceptible to the "memory effect," Ni-MH batteries are much less prone to this condition than the older technology Ni-cd batteries. Proper conditioning of a Ni-MH battery over it's lifetime will greatly reduce the potential negative impacts of "memory effect." This can be done by ensuring the battery is fully discharged before recharging at least once in every 3-5 charge cycles. [/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] It is very important to properly "condition" a new Ni-MH battery. For the first 3 charge cycles, fully charge the battery overnight (preferably on a conventional slow charger) and allow it to fully discharge before recharging. Over its lifetime, a Ni-MH battery will perform best if it is regularly charged on a charger/conditioner type charger. A Ni-MH battery may be damaged by extensive overcharging (continuously on a charger for more than 24 hours). 

[/font]
Battery Do's & Don'ts (to maximize performance) 

Do's:

Properly "condition" (fully charge/discharge for first 3 cycles) the battery when it is new. directory 
Keep the battery and the contact terminals clean.
Avoid exposing the battery to extreme heat and cold.
Use the battery. If possible, avoid letting your battery sit dormant for long periods of time.
Use only the phone options and accessories that you really need.
Charge and re-condition a battery after an extended idle period.
Don'ts: 

Toss, drop, or otherwise abuse the battery. 
Short-circuit the battery. 
Open and expose the cell contents. 
Modify the battery casing and/or housing. 
Allow the battery to be exposed to rain or excessive moisture. 
Incinerate a battery. Properly dispose of a used battery. 

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]* It's best to recharge batteries slowly.

* [/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica](Not true. See next item).[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]*Quick charging NiMH batteries will reduce their life.*[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]For practical purposes with batteries that are designed to be quick charged, for example, Sanyo, GP, POWERhaus, that is not true. It is important to use a battery charger that has been specifically designed to rapid charge NiMH cells. Actually there is a much greater likely hood of reducing the life of a NiMH battery by using an "overnight" charger than by using a smart fast charger. Overnight chargers rely on the fact that you will unplug them after a number of hours. If you forget to unplug them they can continue to charge the batteries longer than they should. Overcharging WILL reduce the life of batteries. From a strictly technical sense, a battery that is always slow charged will likely last a little longer than one that is always rapid charged. However, the difference is so small that it is not likely to be noticeable for most users.[/font]

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## thekobk

:huh2: Dennisthomas does this mean the mh-9000 will detect and charge batterys with 0 volts? That would be nice!


----------



## N162E

Alex 007 said:


> Hello Folks!
> 
> Some tips!
> 
> [font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) Batteries
> Ni-MH batteries typically provide at least 30% more talk time than Ni-cd batteries. While still susceptible to the "memory effect," Ni-MH batteries are much less prone to this condition than the older technology Ni-cd batteries. Proper conditioning of a Ni-MH battery over it's lifetime will greatly reduce the potential negative impacts of "memory effect." .....................................................................................................................................................
> Overnight chargers rely on the fact that you will unplug them after a number of hours. If you forget to unplug them they can continue to charge the batteries longer than they should. Overcharging WILL reduce the life of batteries. From a strictly technical sense, a battery that is always slow charged will likely last a little longer than one that is always rapid charged. However, the difference is so small that it is not likely to be noticeable for most users.[/size][/font]
> 
> Alex 007[/size]


Hi Alex, Thanks for your tips and research. For my part I think I will show a little common sense, allow my chargers to do the job they were designed for and MAYBE even have a little time to enjoy the devices I bought the batteries for. Yes, I am going to put the batteries in a device other than the charger. LOL


----------



## N162E

bfg9000 said:


> Yay! This is great news!
> Umm, weren't the 2000mAh Maha PowerEx cells first announced on December 23rd, 2002?


Maybe they used some of the "early version 2000s" you know the ones that used to be 1600 and then 1800 mah that got relabeled 2000 then 2200mah as we got better at charging them and they got more clever at rating them.


----------



## dennisthomas

thekobk said:


> :huh2: Dennisthomas does this mean the mh-9000 will detect and charge batterys with 0 volts? That would be nice!




No guarantee, but I just wanted to pass this information on. Naturally the batteries probably will need to be a better quality battery originally.

Also wanted to point out that 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 is 5 years .

Actual developement of the 2000 mAh battery was late 2001 early 2002. There is always some time delay before most batteries are released and the time they are developed. Most manufacturers keep older lots of batteries to test in the future in order to maintain high quality standards.

.


----------



## bfg9000

I still think you need to check your math and the Maha technicians were pulling your chain



. Dec 23, 2002 (the product announcement date, not even when they were first available for sale yet) is not even 4 years ago.

But if Maha sat on those for over a year before releasing them, perhaps we can hope they also had a fully functional MH-C9000 before November 4th, 2005 and have just been beta testing it (and finalizing the software) since then. I *don't* want to hear about any necessary software revisions like Lacrosse...


----------



## willchueh

thekobk said:


> :huh2: Dennisthomas does this mean the mh-9000 will detect and charge batterys with 0 volts? That would be nice!



Yes, the MH-C9000 is able to detect 0V battery. 

William


----------



## willchueh

From the standpoint of a "charger" developer, we (Maha) have almost every imaginable brands of batteries with various age in our lab. We still have 1300mAh NiMH first available in the mid 90s. 

And yes, I can confirm the statement from Dennis that the 2000mAh tested were over 5 years old. I should also add new products are not always available in the US first. 

As for the test itself, it was very recent as our battery division began exploring using the MH-C9000 instead of our very expensive commercial battery analyzers. 

Hope this clarification helps.

William


----------



## bfg9000

Thanks William! 

BTW everyone, the Wizard One is now listed on the Maha site.


----------



## summerwind

cool.......just got my shipping notice..........TD has been busy......


----------



## SilverFox

I just got my shipping notice too.

Tom


----------



## dekelsey61

I just recieved my fed-ex shipping notice from TD. Thanks to Dennis sending my package Fed-ex home delievery I am going to get it Saturday the 23rd since I live on 2 hours away. Thank you Dennis for a job wll done.
Dan


----------



## wptski

I got my FedEx shipping notice with a time stamp of about an hour ago!

I might add that FedEx has very poor tracking system compared to UPS.


----------



## meeshu

Great!!

Looking forward to some feedback from users shortly!


----------



## wptski

meeshu said:


> Great!!
> 
> Looking forward to some feedback from users shortly!


Gosh, standard FedEx, weekend and XMas, it'll be the middle of next week!!

EDIT: It was trackable now, delivery date is 12/27/06 for me.


----------



## flash99dark

WTSPI....Bill when did you order the MH-C9000? I received my order confirmation from TD on NOV 17? Which is when I ordered. They have not charged my CC or sent me a confirm. shipped yet. I E-mailed them a few minutes ago when It appeared that they might be filling the last orders first.

Actually, if I have to wait a few more days, that is O.K. That is. as long as they
are following the pre-order list and most importantly not lost my order..William


----------



## thekobk

Did you guys get your shipping notice via email? I did not get one.


----------



## summerwind

thekobk said:


> Did you guys get your shipping notice via email? I did not get one.


 
that's exactly how i got mine..............i was going to go for next day (to have on Sat.).....but, um, $40.00 bucks more is bit change best kept for batteries 

be great to hear from those who get it tomorrow................
funny, i'm 51 yrs young and still get stoked by toys............:laughing:


----------



## coppertrail

I've not received a shipping notice. Did you provide an email address when you placed your ordrer? I received and email confirmation when I placed my order, so I'm thinking they're still there working hard to get all the pre-order shipments out this evening.


----------



## BVH

Hurray! Mine are on their way! Looking forward to the break-in feature!


----------



## dekelsey61

Sometimes the emails come in slowly. I am sure they did there best to get all the preorders out today. When I get mine Saturday I am going to use the break-in feature first on some of my batteries that are not performing very well. Can not wait until tomorrow to play!
Dan


----------



## LITEDISORDER

I just ordered one today. When do you guys think I might get it.


----------



## dekelsey61

Litedisorder- What state are you in?
Dan


----------



## LITEDISORDER

Missouri


----------



## dekelsey61

If you bought it from TD They should ship it out on Tuesday and you should get it at the latest on Thurasday of next week. That is not offical but it will give you a good idea. Hope this helps you.
Dan


----------



## wptski

flash99dark said:


> WTSPI....Bill when did you order the MH-C9000? I received my order confirmation from TD on NOV 17? Which is when I ordered. They have not charged my CC or sent me a confirm. shipped yet. I E-mailed them a few minutes ago when It appeared that they might be filling the last orders first.
> 
> Actually, if I have to wait a few more days, that is O.K. That is. as long as they
> are following the pre-order list and most importantly not lost my order..William


The day that I ordered it, 11/9/06. I mean them, I got two!


----------



## coppertrail

*New Windows Wall Paper*

I'm going to use this wallpaper until the charger arrives 








While we're waiting, what's your first order of business with your C9000? I have a set of Sanyo 2700s I received back in June that I've never used, never charged. I'm going to form them using the C9000.


----------



## dekelsey61

Coppertrail, I am going to do the samething you are going to do. I have some 2700 sanyo's also to form charge. As a matter of fact I have alot of batteries I want to form charge. The charger will be working non stop for weeks as long as it takes to do some of the features.
Dan


----------



## BVH

I've got 36 Eneloops and 10 Sanyo 2700's to form.


----------



## Alex 007

Good Luck...Folks!

I will read all your comments...:huh2:

To verify to myself if my selected "Better value for my Money" La Crosse BC-900U, it's "Far Away"...from the C9000...at the final stage/degree?:touche:

Enjoy your acquired product for many years

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## Curious_character

I got an email notice today that mine had been shipped. I elected UPS ground, so delivery is estimated to be Dec. 29.

c_c


----------



## thekobk

I never go a email but fedex called this morning confirming my address. Unless someone else is shipping a package to me via fedex I will be receving my charger today.:rock::rock::rock:


----------



## RobbW

I received a Thomas Distributing email stating my charger shipped yesterday (12/22) and I'm looking at a 12/28 arrival! Woohoo, a post-Christmas package!

Oh, and I also heard from Eric Miller. My two CREE 4 Modded ARCs will be arriving about the same date. Things are coming together nicely.


----------



## Brlux

I am anxiously awaiting to see how things turn out with these chargers and will hopefully be ordering one in mid January..


----------



## EngrPaul

I didn't receive an email notice. Evidently they didn't have enough for all the pre-orders, or mine is being held up for the 12V car adapter I purchased with it.


----------



## BVH

I think Dennis posted they had either 125 or 175 chargers left over after the pre-orders were filled.


----------



## coppertrail

EngrPaul said:


> I didn't receive an email notice. Evidently they didn't have enough for all the pre-orders, or mine is being held up for the 12V car adapter I purchased with it.


You're not alone, I haven't received an email notice, and I pre-ordered on Nov. 9th. I added something to my order yesterday morning, I'm wondering if that's holding it up.


----------



## flash99dark

Coppertrail.....Have they charged your Credit card yet? mine has not been charged, nor have received an answer to my E-mail inquiry to them yesterday.

When I checked last night they had posted there were 145 left after pre orders. 
I just checked the TD website today and the number in stock after pre-order
has gone down to 125. Hummm...can't answer E-mail, but can update on the
website? Oh well, I guess I will put this to "bed' and call them first thing on
26th (my pre-order was done [with confirmation number from them on Nov 17]...William

Merry Christmas/happy Holidays to all!


----------



## thekobk

never got an emil but fedex just droped it off and I live over 300 miles away!:rock::rock:


----------



## coppertrail

flash99dark said:


> Coppertrail.....Have they charged your Credit card yet? mine has not been charged, nor have received an answer to my E-mail inquiry to them yesterday.


 My card hasn't been charged. The encouraging news is thekbok received his today after not receiving a shipping notice


----------



## thekobk

this thing is about 2x larger then the bc-900 and has a real nice display.
a few picks here http://www.ootband.com/charger.htm


----------



## coppertrail

Does it fit into the Powerex Carrying case that came with it?


----------



## thekobk

yes but its a tight fit.


----------



## radellaf

Checked TD and they no longer even have it listed in their catalog. No news item about it, and nothing on Maha's website either (which also does not have them available).

Just out of stock you think or maybe they're fixing a problem?


----------



## N162E

radellaf said:


> Checked TD and they no longer even have it listed in their catalog. No news item about it, and nothing on Maha's website either (which also does not have them available).
> 
> Just out of stock you think or maybe they're fixing a problem?


I can see it at TD just fine!!


----------



## bfg9000

Still listed in both places.

Note the TD "updated arrival info" notice now says ALL preorders have shipped, regardless of any confirmation emails.


----------



## Alex 007

thekobk said:


> this thing is about 2x larger then the bc-900 and has a real nice display.
> a few picks here http://www.ootband.com/charger.htm



Nice photos!

Yes I can see & comprehend that the LCD display is "Always" illuminated, & much...much bigger

Please do not hesitate to inform us...how is the "Performance"...among your already with you a BC-900 charger (Same unit I acquired two weeks ago!), & this new Maha one that "State/Say"...that will provide much better/tender battery charging performance/functioning...?:huh2:

Thanks is advance for be so kind, specially with me!:goodjob:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## coppertrail

flash99dark said:


> Coppertrail.....Have they charged your Credit card yet? mine has not been charged, nor have received an answer to my E-mail inquiry to them yesterday.
> 
> When I checked last night they had posted there were 145 left after pre orders.
> I just checked the TD website today and the number in stock after pre-order
> has gone down to 125. Hummm...can't answer E-mail, but can update on the
> website? Oh well, I guess I will put this to "bed' and call them first thing on
> 26th (my pre-order was done [with confirmation number from them on Nov 17]...William
> 
> Merry Christmas/happy Holidays to all!


Flash - I checked my CC account this morning, and there is indeed a charge from TD posted on 12/22, so it would appear my order is on its way! Somtimes it takes a few days for charges to post to a CC. Was yours charged as well?


----------



## EngrPaul

Credit Card charge posted 12/22 for me also.


----------



## flash99dark

Coppertrail....Nothing posted on mine yet...i will call them 26th AM if nothing
shows by then....William


----------



## Alex 007

Hi Folks!

Needed to be very patiently!!!

Holidays, so fedEx are extremely busy!!!

Peace,

Alex.


----------



## coppertrail

Had mine not shipped, I would have cancelled and re-submitted with the 5% discount code from my last order, the 3% Google Checkout discount, and all the freebies for orders over $50 and $100. Also, if you order before 8 AM CST, there's an "Early Bird" link off of the main page for (2) free 8 cell AA battery storage cases.

Something to consider if you want to save some $, I assume they still have plenty of C9000s in stock.


----------



## flash99dark

Alex 007....It is more concern that order could be lost,,than impatient

Coppertrail...and all... thanks for the updates.....William


----------



## N162E

I'm out of town and delayed mine for a couple of weeks, ship on 1/4/07. I hope I still get the pre-order goodies.


----------



## Alex 007

flash99dark said:


> Alex 007....It is more concern that order could be lost,,than impatient
> 
> Coppertrail...and all... thanks for the updates.....William



I really don't think so!

As with FedEx way...never will be lost anything:goodjob:

Only need to be patiently...that's was my main considering to order the La Crosse BC-900U as "T-D"...has then in stock!. With the much better V-33 firmware I really "HOPE/Trust"...that will be "Bugs" free

Have all of you a lovely & productive 2007 year!

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## flash99dark

Update on my Maha MH-C9000 order from TD: I called them a few minutes

ago and found out it was shipped on Dec 22. I got a Fed ex tracking

number from them and it should arrive on the 28th Dec.....Hooray..William


----------



## coppertrail

I called as well and obtained a tracking number. Scheduled for delivery tomorrow.


----------



## kitelights

I gave my daughter the link to the page on TD's site as a gift suggestion for myself when she asked me for gift ideas. She usually gives money for things like the charger, but she ordered it instead. I checked today, got my tracking # and I'll receive it tomorrow.


----------



## thekobk

Used the break in feature on 4 new powerex 2700's. The battery's ended up showing less mha then i expected. 2610 2654 2609 and 2640. Breaking in some hybrid's then some enloops. after att are broke in i will do some cycling at 1/2 C and see if I get more mah.


----------



## tvman

RobSpook said:


> Refer back to post #220 before buying from HHGREG!



thanks RobSpook. I went with Ritz Camera and the $20 google checkout discount. Shipment arrived in just a day or two.


----------



## Lonely Raven

I just found mine at the door when I got home from some after X-mas shopping today.

Being new to advanced chargers, I'm still trying to figure this all out...but I definitely need this unit for the fleet of AA Rechargables I use in my Nikon flash units. 

Right now I'm doing a Refresh and Analyze on a set of 4 AA that I just used up in one of my flash units. I set it for R&A with 500ma charge and 500ma discharge for 2500ma cells. 

Does that sound like a good start?

I have 4 other sets of 4 to work through and match up. I typically mark my sets with sharpy and use them together. I've thus far only been working with Energizer 8 hour chargers which seem to get that cells REALLY hot. I don't mind long recharge times, as long as I'm getting the most out of my cells when I need them for photoshots.


----------



## Alex 007

Lonely Raven said:


> I just found mine at the door when I got home from some after X-mas shopping today.
> 
> Being new to advanced chargers, I'm still trying to figure this all out...but I definitely need this unit for the fleet of AA Rechargables I use in my Nikon flash units.
> 
> Right now I'm doing a Refresh and Analyze on a set of 4 AA that I just used up in one of my flash units. I set it for R&A with 500ma charge and 500ma discharge for 2500ma cells.
> 
> Does that sound like a good start?
> 
> I have 4 other sets of 4 to work through and match up. I typically mark my sets with sharpy and use them together. I've thus far only been working with Energizer 8 hour chargers which seem to get that cells REALLY hot. I don't mind long recharge times, as long as I'm getting the most out of my cells when I need them for photoshots.



Please read my earlier posted tips~!

Hello Folks!

Some tips!

 [font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Nickel-Metal Hydride (Ni-MH) Batteries 
Ni-MH batteries typically provide at least 30% more talk time than Ni-cd batteries. While still susceptible to the "memory effect," Ni-MH batteries are much less prone to this condition than the older technology Ni-cd batteries. Proper conditioning of a Ni-MH battery over it's lifetime will greatly reduce the potential negative impacts of "memory effect." This can be done by ensuring the battery is fully discharged before recharging at least once in every 3-5 charge cycles. [/font]

[font=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] It is very important to properly "condition" a new Ni-MH battery. For the first 3 charge cycles, fully charge the battery overnight (preferably on a conventional slow charger) and allow it to fully discharge before recharging. Over its lifetime, a Ni-MH battery will perform best if it is regularly charged on a charger/conditioner type charger. A Ni-MH battery may be damaged by extensive overcharging (continuously on a charger for more than 24 hours). 

[/font]
Battery Do's & Don'ts (to maximize performance) 

Do's:

Properly "condition" (fully charge/discharge for first 3 cycles) the battery when it is new. directory 
Keep the battery and the contact terminals clean.
Avoid exposing the battery to extreme heat and cold.
Use the battery. If possible, avoid letting your battery sit dormant for long periods of time.
Use only the phone options and accessories that you really need.
Charge and re-condition a battery after an extended idle period.
Don'ts: 

Toss, drop, or otherwise abuse the battery. 
Short-circuit the battery. 
Open and expose the cell contents. 
Modify the battery casing and/or housing. 
Allow the battery to be exposed to rain or excessive moisture. 
Incinerate a battery. Properly dispose of a used battery. 

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]* It's best to recharge batteries slowly.

* [/font][font=verdana, arial, helvetica](Not true. See next item).[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]*Quick charging NiMH batteries will reduce their life.*[/font]

[font=verdana, arial, helvetica]For practical purposes with batteries that are designed to be quick charged, for example, Sanyo, GP, POWERhaus, that is not true. It is important to use a battery charger that has been specifically designed to rapid charge NiMH cells. Actually there is a much greater likely hood of reducing the life of a NiMH battery by using an "overnight" charger than by using a smart fast charger. Overnight chargers rely on the fact that you will unplug them after a number of hours. If you forget to unplug them they can continue to charge the batteries longer than they should. Overcharging WILL reduce the life of batteries. From a strictly technical sense, a battery that is always slow charged will likely last a little longer than one that is always rapid charged. However, the difference is so small that it is not likely to be noticeable for most users.[/font]

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## Curious_character

thekobk said:


> Used the break in feature on 4 new powerex 2700's. The battery's ended up showing less mha then i expected. 2610 2654 2609 and 2640. Breaking in some hybrid's then some enloops. after att are broke in i will do some cycling at 1/2 C and see if I get more mah.


The capacities you've measured are very good. I've measured a _lot_ of NiMH cells, and never found one which met its specified capacity. Some come closer than others, but the folks in the marketing departments of some companies are really creative when it comes to making up numbers.

Some chargers are a lot better than others at getting cells fully charged. I haven't gotten my MH-C9000 yet, so don't know how it stacks up with others I have. But take a look at http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM. The reviewer used a careful regimen which should assure that the batteries are charged as fully as possible, but even so you won't see any on his list that meet the nominal specification. Some do come close, but some are pretty grossly overrated. I'd consider 2600 mAh to be really good for a cell claimed to be 2700.

Battery capacity, like the number of watts allegedly produced by a flashlight (or a car's gas mileage) , are often figments of some overzealous marketeer's imagination. But it does sell batteries and flashlights (and cars) to the naive.

c_c


----------



## thekobk

Curious_character I have seen this with many bats but I bought these after seeing "Tests show 2720 to 2750mAh average capacity" on the TD site and expected a little more but these are new and after they are broke in maybe it will go up a little. I can tell you that this charger rates battery’s about 150 mah lower then the bc-900. The only problem I have with this new charger is you cant keep it any were near the room you sleep in unless you like sleeping with a night light.:lolsign:


----------



## willchueh

Lonely Raven said:


> Right now I'm doing a Refresh and Analyze on a set of 4 AA that I just used up in one of my flash units. I set it for R&A with 500ma charge and 500ma discharge for 2500ma cells.



Lonely Raven,

I would recommend 1000mA for 2500mAh cells. 500mA may not produce consistent charging result since the end-of-charge signal (negative delta V) might be weak.

William


----------



## Lonely Raven

Thanks for the tips guys.

My well used set of Energizer 2500ma completed the Refresh and Analize after about 12 hours (I lost track of time honestly) and are coming up as 2330, 2375, 2420, and 2400 respectively.

I'm doing a set of 2 AA now at 1000ma to see how these turn out. Then I'm going to pull the cells that are in my flashes and run them as well. Somewhere I have some matching Energizer AAA that have never been charged. I'll form them and post the results. 

I'm figuring that all these Energizer AA are going to come in about 150-100ma short of rating...which I figure is pretty good. Remember, these are well used rechargables that are a few months old. So if I had conditioned them from the start, they may have come out better...maybe?

I'm going to read through this thread from the beginning and see if I can pick up any tips.


----------



## willchueh

Lonely Raven,

You might want to read the MH-C9000 SUPPORT / FAQ thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/145727

William


----------



## bcwang

thekobk said:


> Curious_character I have seen this with many bats but I bought these after seeing "Tests show 2720 to 2750mAh average capacity" on the TD site and expected a little more but these are new and after they are broke in maybe it will go up a little. I can tell you that this charger rates battery’s about 150 mah lower then the bc-900. The only problem I have with this new charger is you cant keep it any were near the room you sleep in unless you like sleeping with a night light.:lolsign:



I think TD might test without a rest after the charging is done, like what the bc900 does. Since the wizard waits one hour after charge before starting the discharge test, it loses the first few percent of charge which is why the figures are probably lower than the bc900. With the 16 hr 1/10c charge rate, you're going to get as full a battery as you can possibly get so it's not the charger undercharging.


----------



## thekobk

Thanks bcwang you made some good points. I also ran some hybrid's through the brake in and got some good readings. 2082 2080 2049 and 2058.


----------



## summerwind

well got my c9000 today, and just want to say thanks to you all who kept this thread going strong or else i'd be waiting till the end of Jan.

looks like TD sold out already too.


----------



## EngrPaul

This charger is great. I can't wait for the next generation with datalogging and/or USB connection to PC... HINT HINT.

Special thanks to *Tammie* for her extra work and handling my call along with everbody else's. I don't think confirmation emails made it to a number of us!


----------



## coppertrail

summerwind said:


> well got my c9000 today, and just want to say thanks to you all who kept this thread going strong or else i'd be waiting till the end of Jan.
> 
> looks like TD sold out already too.


 Agreed, mine arrived this evening and my first impression is very positive. A travel charger this is not 

And yes, thank you Tammie and the other TD folks for all their hard work and patience. It is, as always, greatly appreciated


----------



## EngrPaul

Yes, the thing is very big!


----------



## Alex 007

EngrPaul said:


> Yes, the thing is very big!



Yes I like big chargers! Much better to remove the centrally placed batteries, NOT like my selected. La Corsse BC-900U one...which all the batteries are "TO CLOSE"...among them! Maybe next year I will buy one:huh2:

BTW...the "ALWAYS ON" back light illuminated display...can't be placed in any "Bedroom"...pity that don't have any "ON-OFF" switch..not always it's necessary the light...specially during sunny days as a example...Maha specialists...take in account this!:goodjob:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## EngrPaul

Alex,

"Always on" while operating. You could tape a business card across the display if it bothers you.


----------



## EngrPaul

And here's another idea. Fashion a switch to break into the wire running to the LED display, so you can turn it off.


----------



## Alex 007

EngrPaul said:


> Alex,
> 
> "Always on" while operating. You could tape a business card across the display if it bothers you.



Dear Paul,

I was "Joking/Jesting"...but you agree that a "On/Off" switch will be nicer?!

Please inform me if really is easier to "Take Away"...centrally "Finished" batteries? For me really it's very significant...as I personally dislike to leave in "Low Charge/Topping" way for long hours. Maybe I'm a little bit harebrained:huh2:?

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## Alex 007

EngrPaul said:


> And here's another idea. Fashion a switch to break into the wire running to the LED display, so you can turn it off.



WOW...you already dismantle your just new received unit...take in account, that "IT'S NOT 100% IMPERATIVE"...any "Factory" On/Off switch ...as I always charge my batteries in another room...so the lighted display do NOT disturb me! It's only for a simple information.

When you will have time, inform me is really easy to takeout centrally located batteries AA of course...AAA 100% can be takeout easier:rock:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## EngrPaul

Alex 007 said:


> Please inform me if really is easier to "Take Away"...centrally "Finished" batteries? For me really it's very significant...as I personally dislike to leave in "Low Charge/Topping" way for long hours.


 
YES! It's very easy...


----------



## FsTop

Mine shipped yesterday, but TD now shows them as Out of Stock.


----------



## flash99dark

My Maha MH-C9000 arrived a couple of hours ago....and I have already "topped off" eight AA's. 

This was a birthday present [today is my birthday--61 ouch] to myself. I ordered it Nov 17 and it came today!

Tonight.. gourmet dining with my girlfriend !

I am looking forward to all the posts on this charger as a great learning experience....William


----------



## EngrPaul

Alex 007 said:


> WOW...you already dismantle your just new received unit...


 
NO!

It wasn't me... I leeched EvilLithiumMan's photo


----------



## coppertrail

I'm purchasing a UPS for my charger(s) based on the power outage this morning. Is the model below adequate, and if so, about how much runtime would I get if I were charging @ 1000 mA?

Thanks!

*APC Battery Backup 350VA 200 Watt UPS*


----------



## moldyoldy

If you check this link:

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BE350R&total_watts=200

and look at the runtime table, you should get at least a half hour from the unit during a battery run. The charger is not drawing 50 watts, so your run time should be quite a bit more. Yes, the model should be adequate for the charger and some other _small_ electronic devices. 

Tim


----------



## RobbW

After reading the MH-C9000 FAQ and instructions, I'm confused. At what levels should I set charge/discharge for break-in, analyze/refresh, and a basic charge? I have Sanyo 1000 AAA and 2700 AA batteries.

I see from the instructions that .1C is the upper bound for charging, but .1C of 1000 AAAs is 100 and the C9000 only goes down to 200mAh. Also, there are no guidelines listed for discharge rates.

Sorry for being such a newb, and thanks for any help.


----------



## BVH

When you choose Break-in mode, you will be prompted to enter the battery capacity. The charger will automatically determine the rates of charge and discharge. I believe I've seen Maha's recommendation to use between .33 and 1.0 C for other modes.

Go to the "Flashlight electronics, batteries included" area of CPF and you'll see 4 current threads on this charger. Lots of opinions on charge rates and other great data you should read.


----------



## RobbW

BVH said:


> When you choose Break-in mode, you will be prompted to enter the battery capacity. The charger will automatically determine the rates of charge and discharge. I believe I've seen Maha's recommendation to use between .33 and 1.0 C for other modes.


 
Thanks, that makes Break-in mode easier than the others. I wish Charge and Analyze had a straightforward solution.



BVH said:


> Go to the "Flashlight electronics, batteries included" area of CPF and you'll see 4 current threads on this charger. Lots of opinions on charge rates and other great data you should read.


 
I've read through the threads (and am posting in "electronics, batteries included"), but am more confused than ever with the different options and battery capacities. I'm just looking for a simple answer that will let me not do any damage to 1000mAh and 2700mAh batteries.


----------



## EngrPaul

Robb,

The upper boundary for standard charge is 1.0C, not 0.1C.

The theoretical* simple answer would be somewhere between 0.33C and 1.0C, depending on whether you want best battery life (closer to 0.33C) or a fast charge for convenience (closer to 1.0C).

*I say thoretical because this charger may have problems terminating properly at C above 0.33C, we have yet to prove that it's really a common issue.


----------



## RobbW

EngrPaul said:


> Robb,
> 
> The upper boundary for standard charge is 1.0C, not 0.1C.


 
Thanks, I think this was the cause of most of my confusion: I mis-read the math. I'll re-read the FAQ and instructions with this in mind. 1.0C is more in line with the upper-bound advice William was giving, I just (wrongly) assumed he was discussing a one-time super charge.

I feel confident figuring out the charge levels now. Any advice on discharge levels?


----------



## EngrPaul

I plan on always doing 0.2C discharge unless I hear a reason to do otherwise.


----------



## BVH

My chargers are due tomorrow so I haven't been able to try out the rate I am formulating in my mind that I want to use and that is .4C for routine charging. Using my Triton, I charged at the rate of .7C on my 12 cell sub-C, 1400 mah pack and it stayed barely warm until the final 10 minutes or so and then heated up a bit more - but certainly nowhere near very warm or hot. I now use .6C and it stays cooler towards the end of charge. I'll probably end up settling on .5C. I could go down further but I want to avoid missing the heat related termination cue as is frequently mentioned here. To me, it's a compromise between speed of charge, heating of the pack and a high enough rate for proper termination sensing. Based on this "feedback", I'm going to see what happens at .4C when charging Eneloops, Titanium 2600's and Sanyo 2700's. I'm certainly not an expert, but I am picking up a lot of good info reading these threads and experimenting with my Triton.

What discharge rate are others using?


----------



## RobbW

Thank you both for your advice. This gives me a ballpark discharge rate to consider/use. 

I got my C9000 today and I feel like a kid in a candy store. I originally wanted to use the Analyze/Refresh function, but couldn't figure out the charging and discharging rates. So instead I started a forming charge (the batteries are unused, I just cycled them a few times on a Maha 402) because there was nothing to set for this function but the stated battery capacity. I'll see where that gets me, but for the future I now have a sense of charge and discharge rates. Thanks.


----------



## not2bright

I just finished a "Break In" cycle on four brand new 2500mAH Sanyo's (Japan).

On the second charge cycle at 960 minutes 3 of the 4 cells were done. One (cell 2) went to 961 minutes. The cells ended up at:

1: 1.47v 2438 mAh

2: 1.47v 2430 mAh

3: 1.46v 2449 mAh

4: 1.47v 2453 mAh

After ~5 minutes the cells were reading 1.45v on the charger. The charter showed ~3500 mAH of charge put in before they switched to "done" status. It seems strange that the lowest capacity cell was done last. I inserted the cells from 1 to 4 with about 5 seconds between cell insertion and function setting.

All four within 70 mAH of the rated capacity and within 23 mAH as a group seems pretty good.


----------



## Anders

To you who has power outage often, why don't you use the
Optional 12 V car power cord and connect it to a 12 volt car battery?

If you have a spare battery for a car and a charger to it, isn't it safer to use 

Here it is power outage maybe one or tvice per year so its no problem for me

Anders


----------



## digitor

Howdy all, my first post here!

I ordered my C9000 a few days ago - they're supposed to arrive in Oz next week. I nearly got the Lacrosse BC900, but seeing as I already have a Maha C801D and have been happy with its performance and quality, I thought I would go with the C9000.

I stumbled across this forum while researching the charger - I've been reading off and on for days, and now decided to sign up - what a great resource! I didn't realise there's so many other battery nerds out there.... :laughing: 

Cheers


----------



## Alex 007

EngrPaul said:


> Robb,
> 
> The upper boundary for standard charge is 1.0C, not 0.1C.
> 
> The theoretical* simple answer would be somewhere between 0.33C and 1.0C, depending on whether you want best battery life (closer to 0.33C) or a fast charge for convenience (closer to 1.0C).
> 
> *I say thoretical because this charger may have problems terminating properly at C above 0.33C, we have yet to prove that it's really a common issue.



Sorry for my silly inquire!

Can you explain me in the same "Manner" that my today selected BC-900 charger in use what means 0.33C/1.0C translated to mAh??? Correct me if I'm wrong...but my common sense tell me that 0.33C equal to 300mAh & your second example 1.0C = 1000mAh???

Thank you so much for your kindness!:rock:

I think that after 3 years I will acquired also a C9000 charger, maybe "ALL' the "BUGS"...(If will be any???)...will be resolved

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## RobSpook

Alex 007 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong...but my common sense tell me that 0.33C equal to 300mAh & your second example 1.0C = 1000mAh???



Alex, The mAh depends on the battery capacity... your common sense is correct if the battery capacity is 1000mAh. If the battery is 2000mAh like an Eneloop, then .33C equals about 666mAh and 1C = 2000mAh.

So to put it best .33C is actually the equation (.33 X Capacity).

Rob


----------



## Anders

Hello Alex.

[font=&quot]C refers to the advertised capacity of the cell.
If your cell have a capacity of 2500mAh, 0,33 C in this case is 2500/0,33=0,75 Ah or 750 mAh

Anders
[/font]


----------



## Alex 007

Dear Buddies Rob & Anders!

Thank extremely heart fully for your easy to understand & very cute explication!

As I own many types of mAh ones, 1,300 =8 batteries, 1800 =4 batteries, 2100=4 batteries, 2200=8 batteries, 2450=4 batteries, 2500= 4 batteries & finally 2600=8 batteries, my "Newer" dizzy question is this?!.

ALWAYS, .33C is 100% recommended charging current?, taking in score the my primary end is to preserve maximum batteries long usefully life:huh2:

Best if you can write me back your extensively & experienced recommendation for all my above mentioned batteries collection.

Of course my "olds" Ni Cd ones I think that I will use the "Default" 200mAh current charging or again I'm wrong?
Take in account that "Speedy Gonzales" charging is really NOT my goal...as a pensioner I have plenty of patience & time

Our Lord will Bless to all of you Always!:goodjob:

Peace, 

Alex 007


----------



## RobSpook

My dad says if he knew retirement would be this busy he'd have stayed at work 

Hehe, read SilverFox's post's in other topics, this has been covered in more depth than you or I need 

Regards,

Rob


----------



## EngrPaul

Alex,

Have you been to www.batteryuniversity.com yet? 

As for what's "always best", opinions will vary. 

I would like to get more time with this MH-C9000 charger, and learn how well it charges batteries at different C rates, before I decide which is best.


----------



## Lips

.


I guess for CBP-1650 batteries you have to use magnets because they don't make contact in the charger... :shrug: 


.


----------



## bfg9000

My review:
The _discharge_ mode is NICE! Unlike the BC-900 _discharge_ mode, it just discharges and does not charge afterwards. Useful for measuring how much capacity is lost from self-discharge, and there's no sense in charging a dud cell you can't count on anyway.

Would have been nice if the _refresh_ mode worked like the BC-900 _discharge_ mode though (discharge, charge) because if I wanted to do what the _refresh_ mode does now (charge, discharge, charge--same as _test_ mode in the BC-900) I could simply select cycle mode for 1 cycle.




Also would have been nice to have a selectable "auto" number of cycles like the BC-900 _refresh_ mode, and a way to do a 16-hour forming charge without doing the whole lengthy IEC test cycle (16hr charge, wait an hour, 0.2C discharge, wait an hour, charge for another 16 hours). Sometimes you only need to form the cells and testing them too nearly triples the time needed.

The default 1A charge and 500mA discharge rates are fine for 2000-2500mAh cells (0.5-0.4C and 0.25-0.2C, respectively) which reduces needless button pushing.

The screen is REALLY big! So big there was enough room to display either alternating info for all 4 slots separately, or all the info for one slot at a time. The meager single line with alternating info for one slot at a time seems kind of silly considering the CHARGE, REFRESH/ANALYZE, BREAK-IN, DISCHG, CYCLE, 1, 2, 3, and 4 are _printed on the screen_ and could have just as easily been silk screened on the plastic case. Oh well, at least everything's BIG and easy to read even in the dark.

The terminals tear the wrappers of Energizer 2500s on removal unless some care is used. It's really easy to remove the cells by levering up the (-) end but that's what tears the wrappers. Instead I simply slide the entire cell downwards against the (-) terminal to remove it from the (+) end. Easy because there is so much space around each cell.

I actually like the feature (ie not a bug) of charging at the default rate after power is interrupted, because that's how I charge them after using the _discharge_ mode. It's especially nice to not have to remove/insert cells more than necessary given the wrapper tearing issue above, and I have entire rooms wired for UPS power anyway (all outlets and lights on UPS power).

Conclusion: most featured consumer AA charger yet, is well worth the price. Would buy a Wizard Two as well if a few minor things were fixed and C/D capability added...


----------



## Alex 007

bfg9000 said:


> My review:
> The _discharge_ mode is NICE! Unlike the BC-900 _discharge_ mode, it just discharges and does not charge afterwards. Useful for measuring how much capacity is lost from self-discharge, and there's no sense in charging a dud cell you can't count on anyway.
> 
> Would have been nice if the _refresh_ mode worked like the BC-900 _discharge_ mode though (discharge, charge) because if I wanted to do what the _refresh_ mode does now (charge, discharge, charge--same as _test_ mode in the BC-900) I could simply select cycle mode for 1 cycle.
> 
> 
> 
> Also would have been nice to have a selectable "auto" number of cycles like the BC-900 _refresh_ mode, and a way to do a 16-hour forming charge without doing the whole lengthy IEC test cycle (16hr charge, wait an hour, 0.2C discharge, wait an hour, charge for another 16 hours). Sometimes you only need to form the cells and testing them too nearly triples the time needed.
> 
> The default 1A charge and 500mA discharge rates are fine for 2000-2500mAh cells (0.5-0.4C and 0.25-0.2C, respectively) which reduces needless button pushing.
> 
> The screen is REALLY big! So big there was enough room to display either alternating info for all 4 slots separately, or all the info for one slot at a time. The meager single line with alternating info for one slot at a time seems kind of silly considering the CHARGE, REFRESH/ANALYZE, BREAK-IN, DISCHG, CYCLE, 1, 2, 3, and 4 are _printed on the screen_ and could have just as easily been silk screened on the plastic case. Oh well, at least everything's BIG and easy to read even in the dark.
> 
> The terminals tear the wrappers of Energizer 2500s on removal unless some care is used. It's really easy to remove the cells by levering up the (-) end but that's what tears the wrappers. Instead I simply slide the entire cell downwards against the (-) terminal to remove it from the (+) end. Easy because there is so much space around each cell.
> 
> I actually like the feature (ie not a bug) of charging at the default rate after power is interrupted, because that's how I charge them after using the _discharge_ mode. It's especially nice to not have to remove/insert cells more than necessary given the wrapper tearing issue above, and I have entire rooms wired for UPS power anyway (all outlets and lights on UPS power).
> 
> Conclusion: most featured consumer AA charger yet, is well worth the price. Would buy a Wizard Two as well if a few minor things were fixed and C/D capability added...



Dear BFG-9000,

Lovely review

But...but...I can understand that DO...99% exactly the same that the BC-900 that I acquired, of course such "BIGGER" display really I would love to have on my BC-900...illuminated also is really an a enormous feature, particularly at my age 63 years old...when my eyes can't cope with the small LCD display on my BC-900.
However. the "Default" 1A charge it's NOT so well accepted by me:huh2: As I own a collection of Ni Cd ones that at such "Default" setting will harm then extremely fast, + earlier NiMh ones GP 1300mAh ones, OK...I comprehend that the default mode can be change by the user...ONLY...that in my particular case...I MUST remember that when I load the charger with a quad batteries (When I will buy it...3 years from now!:touche.

Bravo for your test on it...another silly question...? What you mean with UPS power? (I own an a UPS device item for my computer...!), so...you have all your home...wired with a UPS, please as I live overseas...what exactly you mean?.

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## coppertrail

Right Alex, a UPS for you computer provides power/surge protection in the event of a power outage. You can purchase a rather inexpensive UPS here in the states (32 - 40 USD) that provides protection from brown or black outs. 

I purchased an small UPS for my charger (and some other small devices) so the charge information/progress isn't lost in the event of a minor power outage. 

The other day, I was 13 hours into a forming cycle with my new MH-C9000. The power went out for about 1 second, then came back on. I looked at the charger, and it had reset itself to the 1000 mA charge mode. I had lost those 12 hours of forming.


----------



## bfg9000

My experience with NiCd is they can handle far more abuse than NiMH and can certainly tolerate 1C charging despite the ultraconservative 100mA recommendation printed on some of them. I have some NiCd cells that are over 15 years old that still work fine and have always been charged at 1C. 

Those 15 minute chargers (that only cost about 25 cycles of NiMH cell life to use) charge at 3C, so charging 1300mAh NiMH cells at 1A is probably ok.

It would be silly to complain about a product having too many features but perfectly reasonable to complain if they are too difficult to use or don't work. I'm delighted that everything works, it turns out the default modes perfectly match what I will mostly be using it for and the option to program in other rates if needed is reasonably simple (had no idea when I pre-ordered it). The workaround I'm using to get a 16 hour forming charge only is to put it on a timer set for 16.5 hours--which shuts everything off halfway through the first 1 hour "rest" period. Yes it would be nice if things were more automatic, and even though cheapie chargers can "sense" an AAA simply by using different terminals for them + adjusting charging rates accordingly, I've never been happy with such terminal designs. By far the best solution is actual switches for each function that retain settings even when powered off (I also prefer dedicated controls on cameras rather than wading through menus) but switches are expensive and software with a few multifunction buttons is the way to cram the most features into an affordable product. 

I have several circuits at home protected by wired-in 3000VA sine-wave output UPSes that can each deliver 2700w. Transfer time is rated at 2ms typical, 4ms maximum and they allow plenty of time for a natural gas generator to start and transfer switch to activate (after the generator comes online the UPSes filter the relatively dirty power). It is exactly the opposite of a hospital or office in that all lights and outlets are protected except for specific ones that are reserved for vacuum cleaners, etc. Around here we lose power for >24 hours about once every 20 years.


----------



## Alex 007

Thanks so much to both of you for your heart fully response!:goodjob:
Now I know, that when I will use again my BC-900 I will plug in trough my Computer UPS...but I discovered that if happens something with my home mains, still near 15 seconds ON...something that I just read that the C9000 DON'T

Ok is a problem when the power goes off for hours or minutes all is reset to the beginning...but such both "Super-Smart" chargers MUST sense that the batteries are already charged, so if commence again from the beginning...soon will finish the whole operation? or I'm wrong??

Whatever...I assume that during 3 years more I also will own the C9000:huh2:

Have all of you a nice & productive working 2007 year!

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## Mike abcd

bfg9000 said:


> ... The workaround I'm using to get a 16 hour forming charge only is to put it on a timer set for 16.5 hours--which shuts everything off halfway through the first 1 hour "rest" period.
> ...



Nice post. In general I agree with you.

I just wanted to suggest not leaving the cells in for too long after the timer power cuts the power as the charger might discharge them without power. Lots do although typically its not at a high rate.

Mike


----------



## LuxLuthor

BVH said:


> My chargers are due tomorrow so I haven't been able to try out the rate I am formulating in my mind that I want to use and that is .4C for routine charging. Using my Triton, I charged at the rate of .7C on my 12 cell sub-C, 1400 mah pack and it stayed barely warm until the final 10 minutes or so and then heated up a bit more - but certainly nowhere near very warm or hot. I now use .6C and it stays cooler towards the end of charge. I'll probably end up settling on .5C. I could go down further but I want to avoid missing the heat related termination cue as is frequently mentioned here. To me, it's a compromise between speed of charge, heating of the pack and a high enough rate for proper termination sensing. Based on this "feedback", I'm going to see what happens at .4C when charging Eneloops, Titanium 2600's and Sanyo 2700's. I'm certainly not an expert, but I am picking up a lot of good info reading these threads and experimenting with my Triton.
> 
> What discharge rate are others using?



I was comparing this to what I remember SilverFox saying in one of the other C9000 threads that the problem of damage to the high performance cells was not related to using a 1C charging current, but rather the (30+%) overcharging at the end of the cycle before termination occurs.

As far as I have read so far, it is seeming like there would not be that much difference between using .4C and .7C if both terminate correctly. I also read about someone having their PowerEx plastic wrappers splitting (pix was shown) while using this charger...which I never heard a resolution to.


----------



## Alex 007

Hello!

Your wrote... What discharge rate are others using?

With my acquired Lacrosse BC-900 "Improved"...my 2,400 to 2.700mAh I discharged at 450mA & charge at 700mA, my two 1,300mAh quad sets 250mA & 500mA.

Till today after a lot of batteries sets"Refreshing" NO problem with my BC-900...work amazing good...doing...:goodjob:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## LuxLuthor

This thread is about the C9000


----------



## Alex 007

Hello!

YES...I know...but I explain you, what I'm doing with my "Best Value for my Money" charger which is 99% similarly to my future purchase after at least 3 years of demonstrate, being an a totally "Bug Free" Maha MH-C9000 charger. :huh2:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## digitor

Perhaps if you used a larger font, we would understand?

Cheers


----------



## Alex 007

digitor said:


> Perhaps if you used a larger font, we would understand?
> 
> Cheers



Dear "Digitor"!

OK...same size font...If; I really offend you, my heart fully apologies!:candle:

Peace,

Alex 007


----------



## coppertrail

Maha has released an updated C9000.


----------



## Alex 007

coppertrail said:


> Maha has released an updated C9000.



That...is why I "NEVER" run to buy a new charger on the market..., as I wrote I will wait 3 years more...till will 100% "Updated" & Final product..., with NO more BUGS!

I say it!:huh2:

Peace,

Alex


----------



## LuxLuthor

OK Alex_007, we got the message that you are smarter than us, and we should all benefit from your advice of waiting 3 years until a new charger is fully tested and updated...but some of us are obviously stupid idiots, and not as wise as you. Now can we please get back to my earlier post that relates to this charger, please?




BVH said:


> My chargers are due tomorrow so I haven't been able to try out the rate I am formulating in my mind that I want to use and that is .4C for routine charging. Using my Triton, I charged at the rate of .7C on my 12 cell sub-C, 1400 mah pack and it stayed barely warm until the final 10 minutes or so and then heated up a bit more - but certainly nowhere near very warm or hot. I now use .6C and it stays cooler towards the end of charge. I'll probably end up settling on .5C. I could go down further but I want to avoid missing the heat related termination cue as is frequently mentioned here. To me, it's a compromise between speed of charge, heating of the pack and a high enough rate for proper termination sensing. Based on this "feedback", I'm going to see what happens at .4C when charging Eneloops, Titanium 2600's and Sanyo 2700's. I'm certainly not an expert, but I am picking up a lot of good info reading these threads and experimenting with my Triton.
> 
> What discharge rate are others using?



I was comparing this to what I remember SilverFox saying in one of the other C9000 threads that the problem of damage to the high performance cells was not related to using a 1C charging current, but rather the (30+%) overcharging at the end of the cycle before termination occurs.

As far as I have read so far, it is seeming like there would not be that much difference between using .4C and .7C if both terminate correctly. I also read about someone having their PowerEx plastic wrappers splitting (pix was shown) while using this charger...which I never heard a resolution to.


----------



## N162E

LuxLuthor said:


> OK Alex_007, we got the message that you are smarter than us,
> 
> I also read about someone having their PowerEx plastic wrappers splitting (pix was shown) while using this charger...which I never heard a resolution to.


That happened to several of us with our BC-900s.


----------



## Turbo DV8

LuxLuthor said:


> OK Alex_007, we got the message that you are smarter than us, and we should all benefit from your advice of waiting 3 years until a new charger is fully tested and updated.


 
When the C9000 was announced months ago, I made one post about the possible benefit of waiting for the bugs to be worked out, but I haven't said a peep since. Other than getting the bugs out, another possible benefit for me would be for Maha to introduce a charger similar to the C9000 which will accomodate C & D cells. My 808 does this, but with no useful information in the display like the C9000 or BC-900. I understand the C9000 Rev. 1 would allow you to charge a D cell externally, but with the new revisions, the current is limited to 4 Ah, is this correct? This does preclude charging a D cell externally unless multiple charge cycles and careful monitoring? In this case, if they do not come out with another charger that holds C & D cells, this Rev. 1 C9000 might be a somewhat sought after commodity! Any thoughts on whether Maha limiting the current to 4 Ah means they have no plans to introduce a charger like the C9000 which will hold C & D cells also?


----------



## tacoal

I don't think Maha has figured out how to avoid the overcharging problem on C9000 in a proper way (software or hardware). Since this problem should be fixed soon, the dumb charger way, shorter max time, is used. This should be a temporary remedy for this urgent issue.

If this problem cannot be fixed in the algorithm or hardware, I don't think Maha will have another super charger using the same technic in C9000 with ability to charge C and D cell. Hoping Maha will find a way soon.


----------



## Alex 007

LuxLuthor said:


> OK Alex_007, we got the message that you are smarter than us, and we should all benefit from your advice of waiting 3 years until a new charger is fully tested and updated...but some of us are obviously stupid idiots, and not as wise as you. Now can we please get back to my earlier post that relates to this charger, please!
> 
> Hi LuxLuthor!
> 
> I'm really extremely sorry for offend to you & maybe more members in this specific forum...THAT 100% SURE...was NOT my heart fully intention.
> 
> Today I'm 64 years old photographer(Retired today!), since more of 4 decades...exactly since I was 13 year old living in Lima Peru, where I born...my passed lovely daddy; was also an a Pro photographer (Movie), so the Batteries/Charger issues is very familiar with me & thanks to "The Open Mind" of my lovely Daddy...I learn to wait a few years till a newer charger is free of "Bugs". For so...my first intention, was to buy this newer Maha C9000 charger...until I recall what my Daddy teach me..."WAIT"...don't rush..., I collect till today more of a dozen of chargers...OK...I agree that 98% are for NiCd batteries, only 3 are for both of them...till I discovered that for the same amount of money I can obtain the BC-900 "Improved" (After that I read ALL the post on this particularly brand of Charger that here in Israel still totally unknown, that now with the "Firmware V-13"...all the "Bugs"...gas gone!
> Also. "T-D" charge me trough Fe Dex shipping a lot of money exactly a mere dollar less that the whole BC-900 price...studying the features of both chargers I really discovered that "DO THE SAME"...maybe less "Fancy Display"...but exactly the same...and most "Important" Bug Free...I decided to own this BC-900...which till today sitting on two empty matches box..."For Better Ventilation"...I post photos...maybe you don't saw them...charge my ample collection of Ni-Cd/Ni-Mh type batteries...Yes is truth that my acquired BC-900 accept ONLY till 3,000mAh batteries (Today I own 8 2,700mAh ones)...don't intend to buy more amperage ones...so cope all my needs.
> 
> OK...dear members of this Maha C9000 forum...please accept my sincerely apologies if I offend some of you...was NOT my goal...Truly!
> 
> Peace,
> 
> Alex 007


----------



## mdocod

I've been tossing the idea around of upgrading to a "good" charger.... The 808 fits the bill in every way but when I see the digital readout and all the programable functions of the C9000, I desire these functions in an 808 style charger (8 bays, AAA-D size). Been using a Vanson Speedy box for awhile- and it doesn't always detect the end-of-charge correctly, when monitored, and used in the way SilverFox advises (leave in the green awhile to top-up) it performs very well.. Usually it fails detection on large cells- where it would benifit from having a faster charge rate to create a more detectable end-of-charge "que" so to speak. (this is how I understand it anyways).... But now I read that even this awsom C9000 is having some troubles detecting end-of-charge... The solution seems kinda band-aid style. So maybe I'll just stick with my cheapo charger that has the same problems as the fancy ones untill a newer, better charger becomes available. lol.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Tacoal,

I don't think you have been following things closely... If the improved C9000 was just charging until the timer ended the charge, all of my cells would end up charged to 4000 mAh. Since I am seeing results far less than that, I think Maha has things under control.

I did run into the time termination, once. I was playing with a 9000 mAh D cell and was surprised to see it stop at 4000 mAh.

Have you heard of anyone else running up against the 4000 mAh limit with the improved C9000?

Tom


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Mdocod,

I don't think you have been following things closely either...

Tom


----------



## webfors

Hi Tom,

send me a pic/details of how you got things setup to charge D cells with the c9000 and I'll give it a try. I have 8 powerex 11000mah D cells, and I have both the old and new (0G0B01) chargers side by side, so I can compare the two if needed.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Webfors,

I took a 1/2" dowel about 1" long and a couple of brass bolts and nuts. I drilled holes in the end of the dowel and screwed the bolts in with the nuts threaded on first. This allows me to clamp my wire to the bolt. I adjusted everything to the length of an AA cell and popped it into the charger.

The D cell was clamped, along with the other ends of the wires, in a clamp. I am looking for a good battery holder and think they are available from Mouser.

Tom


----------



## aggiegrads

I would like to get a C9000, but how do I know if I'm getting a "new" one or one of the first run models? Is the packaging different? Is the firmware different? 

How can I tell?

-Thanks,
Steven


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Steven,

I would suggest you purchase from a dealer that has a high turnover of these units. I don't believe Thomas Distributing has any of the old chargers left.

Also, the original chargers were 0FA. I am not sure what the current ones are labeled, but if it is other than 0FA you have an improved one. Please note that my improved unit is labeled 0FA, so that is not a totally accurate indicator.

A better approach would be to test the unit you get. If it properly terminates with "crap" cells at low charge rates, it is the improved version...  

Tom


----------



## snakebite

anyone know for sure how to id the newimproved version?
the one i just got at dayton is 0fab01
small print in lower right is a04-3713419-495


----------



## snakebite

snakebite said:


> anyone know for sure how to id the newimproved version?
> the one i just got at dayton is 0fab01
> small print in lower right is a04-3713419-495



nevermind.
talked to maha today and both mine are in need of update.
they are sending out replacements with a return tag.
still playing with these till the replacements get here.i have to keep an eye on them as they miss termination more often than not.
seems maha service is top notch.


----------



## Bones

snakebite said:


> talked to maha today and both mine are in need of update.


snakebite,

Do you know how Maha determined that your chargers were in need of an update?

Hopefully it's something that will assist others in making the same determination.


----------



## snakebite

version on mine is 0fab01
that how they determined they were in need of update.


----------



## jtr1962

SilverFox said:


> I took a 1/2" dowel about 1" long and a couple of brass bolts and nuts. I drilled holes in the end of the dowel and screwed the bolts in with the nuts threaded on first. This allows me to clamp my wire to the bolt. I adjusted everything to the length of an AA cell and popped it into the charger.
> 
> The D cell was clamped, along with the other ends of the wires, in a clamp. I am looking for a good battery holder and think they are available from Mouser.


I did something very similar except that I drilled holes lengthwise into the dowel at both ends, and another set of holes going from the outer surface to the lengthwise holes. I snaked wire into the latter set of holes, making a bend so that the ends come out of the lengthwise holes. On the negative terminal I soldered a round piece of brass to the wire end. On the positive terminal I just made a solder blob on the wire end. I soldered the other ends of the wires to the Mouser C-cell holder. Voila-capability to use my AA chargers with C cells!


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Joe,

Excellent...

I had to modify my set up. I was charging at 2 amps and noticed that my wooden dowel was heating up. It must have picked up some moisture. I changed to plastic spacers and everything works fine now.

Tom


----------



## Desert Rat 23

So are these a good buy or is there something better out there?


----------



## koala

It goes well with quality cells. It may not like very cheap cells with high internal resistance.


----------



## not2bright

A quick note:

I sent my early production (pre-order) C9000 back to MAHA and received a replacement unit in 6 business days!

My C9000 would miss termination on low quality cells. I haven't tested the new unit, but hopefully this is corrected.


----------



## N162E

not2bright said:


> A quick note:
> 
> I sent my early production (pre-order) C9000 back to MAHA and received a replacement unit in 6 business days!
> 
> My C9000 would miss termination on low quality cells. I haven't tested the new unit, but hopefully this is corrected.


Please let us know how this works out. I would also like to know how termination works at lower rates like 2 or 300 ma. My early C9000 is not reliable typically below 700 ma while my BC-900 is close to 100% reliable at its default of 200ma. I am very rarely in a hurry and like to use the 200 rate on the BC-900. Essentially all I am getting out of my C9000s (Two of them) is discharge info (By itself worth the price)


----------



## wptski

SilverFox said:


> Hello Joe,
> 
> Excellent...
> 
> I had to modify my set up. I was charging at 2 amps and noticed that my wooden dowel was heating up. It must have picked up some moisture. I changed to plastic spacers and everything works fine now.
> 
> Tom


Tom:

That's why they banned wooden handle screw drivers for the military electronic usage in the sixties!


----------



## Gazoo

Desert Rat 23 said:


> So are these a good buy or is there something better out there?



I received mine a few days ago and so far I am very happy with it. It is the first charger I have owned with all the features it provides. I really like the LCD on it....very easy to read, and programming is a cinch. The only feature I haven't used yet is the break in feature. For me, and I am sure many others, the best feature is the charger's ability to display the actual battery capacity.

BTW, I did have some false readings when I first tried refreshing some older Nimh AA's. This was not a problem with the charger. It was the battery's positive and negative ends were dirty. After cleaning the batteries, the charger performed flawlessly. Just a heads up for anyone that has or is thinking of getting the C9000.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Bill,

Yes, I should know better than that, but I just grabbed what was readily at hand and ended up with wood. The plastic spacers don't seem to have that problem.

Tom


----------



## x2x3x2

Where would be a good place to get these chargers at a reasonable int'l shipping rate?

Thomas' is a little high, about $30+..


----------



## Bones

x2x3x2 said:


> Where would be a good place to get these chargers at a reasonable int'l shipping rate?
> 
> Thomas' is a little high, about $30+..



Maha Energy maintains a list of international dealers:

http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/buy.asp

As well, there is a very well respected forum member providing an international forwarding service:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/t=141638


----------



## Trancersteve

Hi all, how well does the C9000 detect batteries that have been left laying around for 8~ months? I'm getting abit fed up with these "smart" chargers that don't even attempt at charging cells with a very low voltage. Many times i've had to turn to a 'dumb' charger to raise the voltage up abit then put them back into my not so smart charger 

If the C9000 is good at detecting lower than norm cells im def game for getting one .. Thanks all.


----------



## Power Me Up

It will attempt to charge cells with an initial low voltage.

I've put a few really old cells in my C9000 - one cell was reading 0.00V! For cells with a low initial voltage, the charger will start charging at 125mA until the voltage builds up high enough, then it will start charging at the selected rate.

If the cell voltage doesn't rise, I think it'll just keep putting 125mA into it until you take it out...

I'm not sure if it would attempt to charge a cell that has been reverse charged though...


----------



## Trancersteve

Thats great it does that! Ah i think i need to get this charger! The smart chargers i've used beforehand don't even attempt at giving low voltage cells abit of current..  Thanks for that power me up


----------



## Gazoo

Trancersteve said:


> Thats great it does that! Ah i think i need to get this charger! The smart chargers i've used beforehand don't even attempt at giving low voltage cells abit of current..  Thanks for that power me up



Of course if your batteries are shot the display will read HIGH. Then you can buy a bunch of eneloops like I did and start to go broke...thanks to this forum of course..


----------



## AndyTiedye

I wish there were a charger like this for C and D cells.


----------



## paulr

Does the 9000 have a way to monitor self-discharge of cells? I.e. it should have a mode where it:

1) charges the cells completely;
2) stops charging (i.e. disconnects cells, charge current of zero, NOT trickle charge);
3) Once a day or so, loads cells to 250 mA or so for a few seconds and measures voltage under load

Running such a test for a month or two should reveal cells with self-discharge problems.

I haven't been following this thread too closely either but a feature like that in an 8 or 12 bay charger would be great.


----------



## barkingmad

paulr said:


> Does the 9000 have a way to monitor self-discharge of cells? I.e. it should have a mode where it:
> 
> 1) charges the cells completely;
> 2) stops charging (i.e. disconnects cells, charge current of zero, NOT trickle charge);
> 3) Once a day or so, loads cells to 250 mA or so for a few seconds and measures voltage under load
> 
> Running such a test for a month or two should reveal cells with self-discharge problems.
> 
> I haven't been following this thread too closely either but a feature like that in an 8 or 12 bay charger would be great.


 
Think that's a bit too specialised and not really sure it is accurate since self discharge tends to be highest in the first few days after being charged etc.


----------



## Gazoo

paulr said:


> Does the 9000 have a way to monitor self-discharge of cells? I.e. it should have a mode where it:
> 
> 1) charges the cells completely;
> 2) stops charging (i.e. disconnects cells, charge current of zero, NOT trickle charge);
> 3) Once a day or so, loads cells to 250 mA or so for a few seconds and measures voltage under load
> 
> Running such a test for a month or two should reveal cells with self-discharge problems.
> 
> I haven't been following this thread too closely either but a feature like that in an 8 or 12 bay charger would be great.



It would be a great feature, but from what I have observed here is many of us whom have been upgrading chargers have also upgraded to LSD cells like the eneloops. In the case of LSD cells it becomes a moot point.


----------



## crislight01

i just got an old oldham type headlamp wich uses C Li-on batteries(3.6 V) , is it possible to use the maha charger for it? (maybe charging very slowly )
thanks for any advice.


----------



## SilverFox

Hello Crislight,

The C9000 is not designed to charge Li-Ion cells.

Tom


----------



## crislight01

thanks for your reply SF so this mean taht is not possible? do i need to get another charger? , something like this maybe: http://www.caplamp.org/GWB-15.htm

btw what is the main difference between li-on charger and ni_mh charger?

thanks in advance for your answers.


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## SilverFox

Hello Crislight,

The charging algorithm for NiMh cells is different than that for Li-Ion cells. A NiMh charger will charge at a constant current and monitor for a change in voltage to signal the end of the charge. A Li-Ion charger utilizes constant current until the maximum charging voltage is reached (4.2 volts), then the current is reduced while the cell is held at this constant voltage. The charge ends when the current drops to around 0.05C.

In addition, there is a voltage difference between NiMh cells (nominal 1.2 volts) and Li-Ion cells (nominal 3.7 volts).

The charger you referenced appears to follow the CC/CV algorithm for Li-Ion cells, but it charges at 1000 mA. The maximum recommended charge rate for Li-Ion cells is 1C, so that charger would be good for cells of 1000 mAh capacity or larger.

Tom


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## crislight01

hi again thank you this is very educating for me, btw i just found the specs of the li-on battery inside the lamp( yep and btw by opening it i found out there arent C cells but just a li-ion battery(sort of like the ones on pc's):

*li-on battery:*
nominal voltage: 3,6 V
nominal capacity:11ah

*charge:*
charge voltage:4,1 V (+-0,04V)
recomended max current: 5A

*discharge:*
maximum current: 5A

would the charger i showed you do the trick(i must order it from china )?

or do you have a charger that you could recomend me(mid and high term one)

thanks!


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## SilverFox

Hello Crislight,

Unfortunately not. The charger that you linked to charges to 4.2 volts and the information on your cells requires charging to 4.1 volts.

The Schulze line of chargers have a Li-Ion setting that terminates the charge at 4.1 volts. The Triton also had this setting, but it has evolved and I am not sure this setting is still available.

Your next choice would be to go with a regulated power supply. Mastech makes an HY1803 that would work well, but you would be responsible for setting the voltage, the current, and terminating the charge.

Tom


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## crislight01

ok i see, yes the triton seems a cool alternative but pretty expensive, is the voltage part truly important like to charge to 0.1 volts more(4.2 instead of 4.1) ?i ask this because many times when i charge my aa nimh batts they can get to 1.4v with no big consequences


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## SilverFox

Hello Crislight,

Yes, it is critical. You will notice the tolerance they gave. 4.10 volts + or - 0.04 volts.

Tom


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## crislight01

yes i read a bit about it and the V precision is main, thank you :thumbsup:


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## crislight01

hi Silver Fox

i would like to ask you a question about the maha :

i would like to use it as a charger for a 5 D cell block, 6Volts (ni-mh 1,2V each), i'll customized it like in the scheme. Will the charger be able to charge this pack, if yes how must i do it? let's say that i will use 4Ah cells but i could later use 10Ah .

thank you / /




Shot at 2007-07-15


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## SilverFox

Hello Crislight,

Nope, that won't work.

The C9000 is designed to charge a single cell in each slot. This means that it is looking for a voltage around 1.2 volts. Your battery pack will have a voltage higher than that.

Tom


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## crislight01

Ok , thank you.


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## Codeman

I created a new thread earlier today for what I thought was a NiMh cell issue, but I now suspect its my fauly slot 1. Just wanted to stick a reference in this thread, in case others have the same issues.

Luckily, a replacement C9000 is already on the brown truck.


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## barkingmad

SilverFox said:


> Hello Crislight,
> 
> Unfortunately not. The charger that you linked to charges to 4.2 volts and the information on your cells requires charging to 4.1 volts.
> 
> The Schulze line of chargers have a Li-Ion setting that terminates the charge at 4.1 volts. The Triton also had this setting, but it has evolved and I am not sure this setting is still available.
> 
> Your next choice would be to go with a regulated power supply. Mastech makes an HY1803 that would work well, but you would be responsible for setting the voltage, the current, and terminating the charge.
> 
> Tom


 
The Orbit Pocketlader lets you set the voltage for Li-ion for between 4.10v and 4.20v - the default appeared to be 4.10v - seems a pretty nice charger as well.


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## benjamin921

I can't believe that I read all 16 pages . I have ordered one (should be here tomorrow) and then found this site, lots of great info here. I have been using batteries all my life but new to this type of charger. Should be fun :thumbsup:


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## Gazoo

benjamin921 said:


> I can't believe that I read all 16 pages . I have ordered one (should be here tomorrow) and then found this site, lots of great info here. I have been using batteries all my life but new to this type of charger. Should be fun :thumbsup:



Hi Benjamin,
You would not believe how much reading I did before deciding to order this charger...lol. I am very happy with it. Welcome to the forums.


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## benjamin921

Well, I received mine today, :w00t::w00t:, and this thing is pretty awesome. My first initial question is, is the charger supposed to make the low whiny noises. I know what it is, just curious about it. 

OG0D01 model number from Thomas Distributing.


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## Power Me Up

benjamin921 said:


> My first initial question is, is the charger supposed to make the low whiny noises. I know what it is, just curious about it.


Yep - that's normal.


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## lightsandknives

So, if I'm using nothing but Eneloops, is there a real benefit to buying the MH-C900 vs using the Eneloop charger that comes with the batteries?


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## RobSpook

lightsandknives said:


> So, if I'm using nothing but Eneloops, is there a real benefit to buying the MH-C900 vs using the Eneloop charger that comes with the batteries?



I would say no... there's really no benefit... UNLESS you're interested in having the ability to perform capacity analysis and matching cell capacities. Now Eneloops have proven to be closely matched right out of the package (I have 60 Eneloop AA batteries, and they're all between 1980-2030 mah after a Refresh/Analyze cycles on my C9000. 

Keep in mind however that once you start using LSD batteries in your lights, you'll soon start using them in everything else... hence the reason why I have 60 of these suckers now. Now I just need to get rid of 20 Energizer 2500's. (Note this is not an offer to sell, so please don't respond in this thread if you want them since that would violate CPF rules.)


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## Gazoo

Eneloops are wicked in a good way. I don't have 60 yet, but I am working on it. I still ordered a C-9000 when I ordered my eneloops. I realize I could have made do with a much less expensive charger, but I like to know how well my batteries are performing, and I was curious how much my older nimh's had degraded. Plus I wanted to know the capacity of the eneloops right out of the package.

For the eneloops, an occasional refresh/analyze will let me know how well they are holding up. I will only use the charge and refresh/analyze modes with my eneloops. And occasionally use the discharge mode so I know what the actual capacity of the eneloops are when first opened.


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## RobSpook

Well, you should expect the "first opened" capacity would be less than the rated capacity. For example, I have a two pack of Eneloops (Numbers 45 and 46 for me LOL) in a sealed package here and the date stamp is 2006-08. Even if they were charged to full capacity at the Sanyo factory, they've had a complete to self discharge... And I believe SilverFox has stated that the manufacturers don't charge them to 100% before shipping... more like 80%. 

Just a quick note so you're not disappointed "right out of the package". 

My Dad used rechargeables back in the eighties but it only lasted a little while because the capacities were ridiculously low and they spent more time on the charger than in devices. I asked him to try a four pack of eneloops when he complained about his Golfing Assistant (a GPS) eating thru batteries quicker than he could buy them. He has not got a dozen of them, always keeping a spare set in his golf bag for when disaster strikes... Disaster being the batteries die on the 9th hole...

I personally use them in EVERYTHING... from my Canon Speedlight to my kids' RC cars (6 each), Remote controls eventually, and more... And because this IS CANDLEpowerforums, I must mention I always keep one in my Fenix L1T and it seems to last forever.


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## macdude22

I've been replacing most of my cells with Hybrid's and I've been very pleased with their performance. I've had a lot of Tenergy 2300 and 2600 cells though but fear not noble rechargers I've migrated most of them to my work where they have been working their way into some lights, mice, keyboards, LAN equipment, and other devices. 

I got started on Rechargeable's with Rayovac's Renewable system, the rechargeable alkaline's. We used them in everything, as a young fella in the 90's there were lots of gadgets to be stuffed with them, at the time C and D cells of these seemed to be common. For whatever reason when I went off to college I didn't have any gadgets and got out of using rechargables (didn't use many batteries period) and a couple years ago when I got my 360 I was eating through alks like candy. I found a Rayovac PS1 in storage and used that with some Rayovac 2500's I bought. Well they worked well at first but soon were losing capacity and they came off that charger red hot. I researched the issue and found this site found that the PS1 was probably missing the termination and cooking the cells til it timed out. I soon became the proud owner of an 808M, started learning all I could, picked up some more lights, and more gadgets I could have ever dreamed and here we are.


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## Gazoo

RobSpook said:


> Just a quick note so you're not disappointed "right out of the package".



All of the eneloops I have bought so far have a date stamp of 2006-08, and I received them last month. The AA's I checked showed better than 1400ma's of capacity, and the AAA's were all better than 600ma's of capacity right out of the package. Shortly after I received my batteries, I learned from another thread they are not charged to full capacity. It is good to point this out so everyone will know and not be disappointed if they test the capacity before charging them. Sanyo should either charge them to full capacity before they are packaged, or make a note of some kind on the packaging. But probably the average "Joe" would not notice the difference between a fully charged eneloop, and an eneloop with over 1400ma's of capacity. It is too bad many of the average "Joe's" are missing out on these.

I am happy I learned of the eneloops from this forum, because otherwise I may have not even known they existed, same goes for the C-9000. One thing I am sure of is I will never use anything other than eneloops until something better comes along. I am not knocking other low self discharge brands, I haven't tried them. However my eneloops are performing just as expected so I am going to stick with them.

I wonder how long it is going to be before we need to buy new eneloops to replace the ones we already have...lol


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## lightsandknives

Gazoo said:


> All of the eneloops I have bought so far have a date stamp of 2006-08, and I received them last month. The AA's I checked showed better than 1400ma's of capacity, and the AAA's were all better than 600ma's of capacity right out of the package. Shortly after I received my batteries, I learned from another thread they are not charged to full capacity. It is good to point this out so everyone will know and not be disappointed if they test the capacity before charging them. Sanyo should either charge them to full capacity before they are packaged, or make a note of some kind on the packaging. But probably the average "Joe" would not notice the difference between a fully charged eneloop, and an eneloop with over 1400ma's of capacity. It is too bad many of the average "Joe's" are missing out on these.
> 
> I am happy I learned of the eneloops from this forum, because otherwise I may have not even known they existed, same goes for the C-9000. One thing I am sure of is I will never use anything other than eneloops until something better comes along. I am not knocking other low self discharge brands, I haven't tried them. However my eneloops are performing just as expected so I am going to stick with them.
> 
> I wonder how long it is going to be before we need to buy new eneloops to replace the ones we already have...lol



My Eneloops have the same date and I'll be breaking them out tonight for a test run. Thanks for the heads up. I couldn't stand the pressure so I ordered the Maha C-9000 after reading way too many threads about it today.

From what I've read, and think I understand, there's no real need to do a break-in on the Eneloops correct?

Recommendations on what settings to use to charge the Eneloops? .5 charge and .5 discharge? .5 charge, 1.0 discharge???


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## Gazoo

I also understand there is no need to break them in. I haven't and never intend to. 

For charging/discharging, I use the default rates of the C-9000. This would be a 1 amp charge rate and a 500ma discharge rate. Of course many people recommend a 1C charge rate, while others like to take it very easy on their batteries, and might charge eneloops at 500ma. I like somewhere in the middle. This is my own preference and I am sure others will chime in with theirs...lol.


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## N162E

Gazoo said:


> For charging/discharging, I use the default rates of the C-9000. This would be a 1 amp charge rate and a 500ma discharge rate. Of course many people recommend a 1C charge rate, while others like to take it very easy on their batteries, and might charge eneloops at 500ma. I like somewhere in the middle. This is my own preference and I am sure others will chime in with theirs...lol.


My preference for charging is not to use the C-9000 at all. I like to use 500ma for charging. My C-9000's will not dependably terminate below 700 ma.


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## Gazoo

N162E said:


> My preference for charging is not to use the C-9000 at all. I like to use 500ma for charging. My C-9000's will not dependably terminate below 700 ma.



Which versions do you have?


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## N162E

Gazoo said:


> Which versions do you have?


First versions released. I would like to hear how newer versions terminate in 200-600ma rate.


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## RobSpook

RE: I would like to hear how newer versions terminate in 200-600ma rate.

I just got the new version from Thomas Distributing (free replacement of my Initial Pre-Order version) and must say it's terminating great. I base this conclusion on very little real info, but here's what happened:

I had a bunch of AAA batteries that weren't terminating, 4x AAA Energizer 850's and 6x generic NiMH AAA batteries that came with my 3 handset phone system. The Energizers surprised me, but the 6x cheapo's I figured were just very low quality. I always use the same ratio for charging no matter the battery type or capacity - Charge at 1/2C and discharge at 1/4C. The new charger terminates on all of these AAA's without failure.

I know, as a technician myself that this isn't enough data to base a conclusion on, but it IS enough to make me comfortable using it for my AAA's again.


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## wptski

The missing termination problem was solved with the second version or 0G0B0. It's still suggested to use at least .5C charging rate.


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## N162E

wptski said:


> The missing termination problem was solved with the second version or 0G0B0. It's still suggested to use at least .5C charging rate.


Interesting, this sounds exactly the same as their original recommendation. Anyone have any practical experience using AAs at low charge rates?

P.S. Hi Bill


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## benjamin921

Just checking my math here (never was told that I was good at it). It has been recommended not to charge/discharge below .5C. If I have my 2500 mAh x .5 = 1250. So am I correct in assuming I should not charge/discharge below 1250 ma? or am I missing a decimal point somewhere? Sorry to have to ask.


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## wptski

benjamin921 said:


> Just checking my math here (never was told that I was good at it). It has been recommended not to charge/discharge below .5C. If I have my 2500 mAh x .5 = 1250. So am I correct in assuming I should not charge/discharge below 1250 ma? or am I missing a decimal point somewhere? Sorry to have to ask.


That's right but since the C9000 can't be set to 1250ma, use 1300ma.


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## SilverFox

Hello Fred,

Although it is not recommended, the improved C-9000 has very little problem with "crap" cells and low charging rates.

I still recommend charging in the 0.5 - 1.0C range, but the default 1 amp rate works great.

Tom


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## SilverFox

Hello Benjamin,

Charging and discharging fall into different categories.

Charging is recommended in the 0.5 - 1.0C range.

Discharging ranges from 0.2 - 3.0C, depending on the cell.

Tom


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## lightsandknives

SilverFox said:


> Hello Benjamin,
> 
> Charging and discharging fall into different categories.
> 
> Charging is recommended in the 0.5 - 1.0C range.
> 
> *Discharging ranges from 0.2 - 3.0C, depending on the cell.*
> 
> Tom




So at what rate would you discharge Eneloops Tom? I guess I'll charge at 0.5 when my C9000 arrives.

I believe the charger that comes with the Eneloops charges at 300mA for AA and 150mA for AAAs.


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## N162E

I like to charge to C/.95 based on weight. That is, the weight of the finished cell being 105% of the dead cell. Charging by weight is far more accurate. I have an electronic powder scale so I can charge to within a few ma of ideal finished weight.


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## RobSpook

N162E said:


> I like to charge to C/.95 based on weight. That is, the weight of the finished cell being 105% of the dead cell. Charging by weight is far more accurate. I have an electronic powder scale so I can charge to within a few ma of ideal finished weight.



ROTFLMFAO

--I usually don't make posts like this, but I'm actually doing what this acronym stands for!!!


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## Turbo DV8

N162E said:


> I like to charge to C/.95 based on weight. That is, the weight of the finished cell being 105% of the dead cell. Charging by weight is far more accurate. I have an electronic powder scale so I can charge to within a few ma of ideal finished weight.


 
I have three La Crosse BC-900's, and boy, am I glad I did not buy a C9000 yet. I will wait for Rev. C of the C9000 which will implement built-in scale to determine end-of-charge.


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## benjamin921

I just got mine and it has the scale (it slides out from the bottom), why wait!


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## Handlobraesing

Anyone else notice this charger isn't true current control? If you set the charging current to 200mA, it's still 2A @ 10% duty cycle, so cells with high internal resistance actually gets rejected.


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## Codeman

benjamin921 said:


> I just got mine and it has the scale (it slides out from the bottom), why wait!



Crap, I wish mine had that. My version included a microwave, which I already have in the kitchen.:green:


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## N162E

Handlobraesing said:


> Anyone else notice this charger isn't true current control? If you set the charging current to 200mA, it's still 2A @ 10% duty cycle, so cells with high internal resistance actually gets rejected.


Dosen't matter. As soon as it hits the proper weight it will end the charge.


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## N162E

benjamin921 said:


> I just got mine and it has the scale (it slides out from the bottom), why wait!


Make sure you carefully calibrate the scale before using it. When you are weighing MAs you want to be as close as possible.


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## benjamin921

N162E said:


> Make sure you carefully calibrate the scale before using it. When you are weighing MAs you want to be as close as possible.



I have some of the top NASA scientists on the way over to do just that.


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## TorchBoy

Ah, but can you discharge Eneloops at 0.59C?


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## TorchBoy

My latest problem: The "DISCHG" sign is faint and can't be seen at all from straight above. These aren't the best photos, but compared to the photo in the post just above there's obviously a difference. All four channels are affected with this one.









No I don't abuse my chargers.


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## NiOOH

Following the law of mass conservation, I cannot understand how a fully charged cell can weigh more than a fully discharged one. If you consider relativistic effects (E=mc^2) you may calculate that for creating approximately 0.1 g of mass you will need an energy input sufficient to power a small town for quite awhile.

I thought we were talking seriously here


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## TorchBoy

But NiOOH, mass isn't conserved. Energy is. And not just for *a* while, either.


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## Cnote

Trickle charge on these?


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## NiOOH

TorchBoy said:


> But NiOOH, mass isn't conserved. Energy is. And not just for *a* while, either.


 
Both are conserved, because energy and mass are equivalent. The proportionality constant is quite big though ( speed of light square).
Oh, let's get back to the topic.


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## TorchBoy

NiOOH said:


> Both are conserved, because energy and mass are equivalent.


I thought the latter was a subset of the former (eg, photons don't have mass - they travel at light speed after all - but do have energy), although I remember hearing about how some particular energy around the sun had to be converted to its mass equivalent to calculate a proper relativistic orbit of Mercury. (Or something.)



NiOOH said:


> Oh, let's get back to the topic.


Yeah, why are my function indicators faint compared to the rest of the readout? What's going on there?


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## Sigman

...closing this one & continuing here.


----------

