# Quad cree led !



## vincebdx

> DURHAM, N.C., MAY 27, 2008 — Cree, Inc. (Nasdaq: CREE), a market leader in LED lighting, announces that it is demonstrating the newest addition to its industry-leading XLamp® LED family—the XLamp MC-E LED—at LIGHTFAIR International in Las Vegas, N.V., May 28-30, 2008.
> 
> The multi-chip XLamp MC-E being demonstrated retains the same 7mm x 9mm footprint as Cree’s existing XLamp XR family LEDs while providing four times the light output of the existing XR-E, the highest lumen output for a package of this size. This powerful combination is designed to enable new applications and reductions in overall system cost compared to other LED packages. At 9.8W, the XLamp MC-E LED being demonstrated provides up to 790 lumens at 6000K and up to 605 lumens at 3000K.



http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_mce.asp


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## Marduke

*Re: Quad cree led ?*

Nice, it keeps the same footprint


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## light_emitting_dude

*Re: Quad cree led ?*

Great, there goes my tax rebate check!


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## metlarules

Can't wait till Olight or Fenix hops on this one!


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## Bronco

So, if I'm following this correctly then, we're basically talking about a P7 with a smaller footprint that will be more or less compatible with existing reflectors. Wow. It just keeps getting better and better. I suppose Fenix and others will have to incorporate increased heatsinking capability into their lights before they can start pumping these out the door. Still, a slightly longer, perhaps, P3D that puts out 400 lumens will be quite something.


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## Marduke

I really hope this is what Fenix was waiting for before they put out that 18650 light they have been designing.


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## Marduke

something interesting, the dice are wired in series, not parallel like the P7.


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## WadeF

Marduke said:


> something interesting, the dice are wired in series, not parallel like the P7.


 
One could wire it parallel if they wanted to I assume?


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## Federal LG

U-hul!!


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## Marduke

WadeF said:


> One could wire it parallel if they wanted to I assume?



I'm talking about each individual die under the dome. The quad cree is wired more like the osram ostar, not like the P7. It's lower drive current with high drive voltage. This makes it not very suitable for small flashlights, and better suited for fixed lighting.


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## Burgess

to Vincebdx --

Nice Find ! ! !

:thumbsup:




*Can't wait till Olight or Fenix hops on this one!* 


Or Mag Instrument. 


( long pause )


In 2012. :devil:



Seriously, this is a *Great* time to be a Flashaholic !


_


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## nanotech17

but it has multiple anode & cathode connection :thinking:
but this what i have been waiting for


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## Marduke

nanotech17 said:


> but it has multiple anode & cathode connection :thinking:
> but this what i have been waiting for



That's true, maybe gunner was right and it can be wired up either way. the specs look like series specs, but if it's per die, that makes sense. guess i need to actually read it instead of skim it.


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## 2xTrinity

Marduke said:


> I'm talking about each individual die under the dome. The quad cree is wired more like the osram ostar, not like the P7. It's lower drive current with high drive voltage. This makes it not very suitable for small flashlights, and better suited for fixed lighting.


There are 8 pins on the LED -- so it is in effect 4 separate LEDs, that means you can wire it however you please: 4s, 2s2p, or 4p.

Also even in the parallel, or series-parallel configurtions, unlike the P7 or Lux5, you can balance the currents going through each emitter by feeding each LED, or string of LEDs with a separate driver. This also means that in some lights, like mag mods, users can use 4 cheap buck converters meant for single LEDs, rather than trying to find a dedicated driver to handle 3A+


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## Marduke

Yeah, I just actually read the spec sheet and saw that. I just initially saw the drive current and filled in the rest. That's one hell of a good move on Cree's part to give such flexibility.


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## jtr1962

The charts and Vf specs are per die. The flux is the total for all four dies. The lowest bin is 370 lumens minimum at 350 mA, or 92.5 lumens per die. This is like a high Q2 bin. The better spec of 430 lumens minimum is 107.5 lumens per die, more or less like a Q5. The dies are individually addressable, so the LED can be wired in parallel, series-parallel, or series. Series is the optimum arrangement as all dies get the same current AND I doubt they bother to Vf match the dies (making parallel driving a risky proposition at best unless you use individual drivers for each element). This is indeed the one we've been waiting for. Much better than the P7 in my opinion. Output at 700 mA of even the lower bin is greater than a 60 watt household incandescent, but with a power input of only 9.4 watts.


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## Federal LG

Burgess said:


> Or Mag Instrument.
> 
> 
> ( long pause )
> 
> 
> In 2012. :devil:


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## orbital

+

Super find!
...the P7 stuff hasn't even been sorted yet. 
*If its the same footprint, imagine the possibilities in a DBS reflector @ 600lm. ~ Hey Alan!!

There is going to be some wild stuff in the pipeline this year...:devil:


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## sledhead

Excellent find! One of these in a Raidfire Spear (18650) would do the trick!:thumbsup: Technology keeps rolling along, it is going to be quite a ride!


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## KeyGrip

Oooooooooh. This will have some fun implications indeed. Wonder what the beam pattern looks like.


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## bigballer1

This is great news. No doubt LED technology is getting better and better. Can't wait for the day when LEDs can compete with low pressure sodium lights in terms of energy efficiency (up to 200 lumens/W !!!), while maintaining low cost.
I do hope the final product will be better than the SSC P7 in terms of both cost and energy efficiency


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## Mike Painter

2xTrinity said:


> There are 8 pins on the LED -- so it is in effect 4 separate LEDs, that means you can wire it however you please: 4s, 2s2p, or 4p.
> 
> Also even in the parallel, or series-parallel configurtions, unlike the P7 or Lux5, you can balance the currents going through each emitter by feeding each LED, or string of LEDs with a separate driver. This also means that in some lights, like mag mods, users can use 4 cheap buck converters meant for single LEDs, rather than trying to find a dedicated driver to handle 3A+



It also means you can have one, two, three or four lights on at any one time.
Four levels with a simple switch, and if one of the leds is on a dimmer 0 - 100, 200, 300, 400...

You could also have the lights "spin" and hynotize people like they did in the movies from the 30's


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## Greg G

I guess I'm putting a couple of personal builds on hold. These look great. 

I guess my buddies will get their cheesy single die lights built while I wait for some of these.........:devil:


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## Marduke

Does anyone else notice something (or the lack of something) in the picture??


The metal ring surrounding the dome on XR-E's which is generally attributed to the "cree rings" is no longer present. Perfect beam pattern perhaps??


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## Blindasabat

>605 lumens at 3000K

Excellent, they will have warmer toned ones!


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## MrGman

This is great. One configuration (wired in series) could be a direct drive off of 4 RCR123's in a Solarforce L2 with 2 extension tubes , which son of a democrat, I already have. 

All I need is the new drop-in pill. At 700mA total I could run it for 2 hours off the batteries easily. 

That would make a most excellent rifle light, sliding into pre-existing mounts and lighting up the night. 

Amongst many other options and uses of course.


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## TigerhawkT3

I see two downsides: first, it'll most likely cost the same as four XR-Es, or maybe even more.  Second, look at those teeny tiny legs  - it looks like they'll pretty much have to be pre-mounted on star boards.

Still, those are very small downsides indeed compared to the upsides.


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## HumanLumen

Note that this LED won't be as good as the XR-E with an aspheric lens as the lumen spatial distribution is wider, also the lumen per surface area will be less due to a lower maximum current.
Good news for reflectors though as more light will be captured by a similar reflector than the XR-E
HL


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## daveman

jtr1962 said:


> The charts and Vf specs are per die. The flux is the total for all four dies. The lowest bin is 370 lumens minimum at 350 mA, or 92.5 lumens per die. This is like a high Q2 bin. The better spec of 430 lumens minimum is 107.5 lumens per die, more or less like a Q5. The dies are individually addressable, so the LED can be wired in parallel, series-parallel, or series. Series is the optimum arrangement as all dies get the same current AND I doubt they bother to Vf match the dies (making parallel driving a risky proposition at best unless you use individual drivers for each element). This is indeed the one we've been waiting for. Much better than the P7 in my opinion. Output at 700 mA of even the lower bin is greater than a 60 watt household incandescent, but with a power input of only 9.4 watts.


I agree, this would seem to be much better than Seoul's P7.

Generally, with paper and ink specs, I would not be so ready to give credits, but with Cree's flawless record of bring hardware out of vapor in the past 2+ years, I think they'll have these out within 2 months from now.


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## 2xTrinity

TigerhawkT3 said:


> I see two downsides: first, it'll most likely cost the same as four XR-Es, or maybe even more.  Second, look at those teeny tiny legs  - it looks like they'll pretty much have to be pre-mounted on star boards.


Even if it's more expensive, it's still worth it compared to buying 4 separate Crees, especially considering you don't need to spend the money, time, and effort mounting 4 separate reflectors to end up with an ultimately poorer final product.

Now that this is the same footprint as a standard Cree XR-E, I'd love to see one of these in a neutral tint (~4000k) in SMALL 18650 light, with continuously variable brightness from fraction of a lumen all the way up to hundreds of lumens, using a UI of the proposed Liteflux LF5XT, along with additonal thermal regulation to prevent it from cooking to death in the event of accidetnal turn-on in jacket.



> It also means you can have one, two, three or four lights on at any one time.
> Four levels with a simple switch, and if one of the leds is on a dimmer 0 - 100, 200, 300, 400...


This is actually pretty cool. Consider that if you want to reduce output, you can turn on only one die still at full output, and you'll end up with better throw than you would by operating all 4 dice at reduced output.

That also means that you could optimize your reflector's focus so it is centered about only one of the dice (your "high" beam) and so that turning the other three on would produce a "low" beam pattern that emits light skewed downward and to the sides.

I also anticipate this package hosting a red-amber-gren-blue emitter setup in the near future, where independent control wuld allow variable color.


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## PhantomPhoton

This does sound interesting! We all knew it was coming, but the package here may be a knockout for us flashaholics. Thanks for the breaking news.


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## TigerhawkT3

2xTrinity said:


> Even if it's more expensive, it's still worth it compared to buying 4 separate Crees, especially considering you don't need to spend the money, time, and effort mounting 4 separate reflectors to end up with an ultimately poorer final product.


Very true. I had in mind large area lights, where raw L/$ plays a big part and mounting is very easy.


> Now that this is the same footprint as a standard Cree XR-E, I'd love to see one of these in a neutral tint (~4000k) in SMALL 18650 light, with continuously variable brightness from fraction of a lumen all the way up to hundreds of lumens, using a UI of the proposed Liteflux LF5XT, along with additonal thermal regulation to prevent it from cooking to death in the event of accidetnal turn-on in jacket.


YES. Oh yes.


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## lumenlover2

Or a HDS + 18650 tube + more heatsink with the thermal regulation inside it would be cool for 600 lumen burstmode :devil:

MILKYYYYYYY ! 

When do you all think we`ll see the first mods?


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## TigerhawkT3

With a whole lot of heatsinking, one of these in 2S2P DD off a pair of 14500s could make for an interesting Minimag.


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## lumenlover2

TigerhawkT3 said:


> With a whole lot of heatsinking, one of these in 2S2P DD off a pair of 14500s could make for an interesting Minimag.


 
OMG these must be the days when the god of all flashlights finally comes onto the earth !


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## brightarc

Awesome! Now that's a sweet looking LED!
Looks like Cree listened to all feedback when they designed this piece of hardware xD


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## bexamous

"This is actually pretty cool. Consider that if you want to reduce output, you can turn on only one die still at full output, and you'll end up with better throw than you would by operating all 4 dice at reduced output."

Wait what? I get how it would be neat to be able to turn on one die at a time but don't leds get more efficinet at lower currents? So wouldn't you get more light with each die turned on with 150ma rather than just one die at 600ma?


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## TORCH_BOY

Very nice


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## 2xTrinity

bexamous said:


> "This is actually pretty cool. Consider that if you want to reduce output, you can turn on only one die still at full output, and you'll end up with better throw than you would by operating all 4 dice at reduced output."
> 
> Wait what? I get how it would be neat to be able to turn on one die at a time but don't leds get more efficinet at lower currents? So wouldn't you get more light with each die turned on with 150ma rather than just one die at 600ma?


You would get more overall output, but since that output is spread across an area 4x as large, it wouldn't throw as far as if it were concentrated to a single emitter. In most cases, that probably won't be practical anyway because in a throw light your'e going to generally want to run as much output as you can get, anyway, but it is a possibility.


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## easilyled

This interesting thread will be buried unless its transferred to the correct
forum (the LED section).


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## DM51

Very interesting find - opens up all sorts of possibilities for new lights. Heat is going to be an issue...

As easilyled suggests, this thread could get buried here in LED Flashlights, so I'll move it to Beyond Flashlights > LED and leave a re-direct to it.


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## flashburn72

Is it just me or does the dome already look like its aspherical?


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## Jarzaa

TigerhawkT3 said:


> With a whole lot of heatsinking, one of these in 2S2P DD off a pair of 14500s could make for an interesting Minimag.



WOW what a sleeper light that would be. You would just have to make a solid copper pill and wire the led direct drive with chips 2s2p and you could have over 500 lumen minimag. I think that would be perfectly doable with one of these leds.


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## Opto-King

Hmm, when I first saw this LED I thought that it was nice, but after checking the data of the SSC P7 LED I must say that I don't understand what all the fuz are all about... :shrug:

to me the new Cree LED looks like a P7 copy, please enlighten me about the wonderful thing about the new Cree LED...


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## tebore

Opto-King said:


> Hmm, when I first saw this LED I thought that it was nice, but after checking the data of the SSC P7 LED I must say that I don't understand what all the fuz are all about... :shrug:
> 
> to me the new Cree LED looks like a P7 copy, please enlighten me about the wonderful thing about the new Cree LED...



Why don't you read the spec sheet.

2 Things pop out to me the ability to power each die separately and warm white(high out put too).


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## Jarzaa

tebore said:


> Why don't you read the spec sheet.
> 
> 2 Things pop out to me the ability to power each die separately and warm white(high out put too).



Plus the much smaller size.


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## lumenlover2

It can be wired parallel or series, and will probably fit in the existing cree xre reflectors and is about half the size of the p7 !!!
It could sizewise fit properly in an LOD again just for the size... .
It`s wonderful!


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## saabluster

2xTrinity said:


> That also means that you could optimize your reflector's focus so it is centered about only one of the dice (your "high" beam) and so that turning the other three on would produce a "low" beam pattern that emits light skewed downward and to the sides.
> 
> I also anticipate this package hosting a red-amber-gren-blue emitter setup in the near future, where independent control wuld allow variable color.


This is very insightful. Imagine how hard you could run that one die with a thermal resistance of only 3 ºC/W!. There is no doubt now that Cree is king of the led world.


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## evan9162

saabluster said:


> This is very insightful. Imagine how hard you could run that one die with a thermal resistance of only 3 ºC/W!. There is no doubt now that Cree is king of the led world.



A single die won't have a thermal resistance of 3 C/W. The thermal resistance is the rating when all 4 dies are powered. A single die will still have a thermal resistance of probably 8 C/W.

This and the Seoul P7 get a lower thermal resistance because each watt of input power is now spread over 4 dies, and not just one. The per-die thermal resistance is the same as it was before. There have been no improvements in thermal resistance of the individual dies...it's just a multiplicity thing that's changing the spec.

Consider this - An XR-E has a thermal resistance of 8C/W. If you run it at 350mA, Vf = 3.2V, holding the heat sink at 25C, then Tj will be (3.2*0.35*8)+25 = 34C

Now run this guy with all 4 dies at 350mA each. Tj of the dies will be (3.2*0.35*4*3)+25 = 38C.

At 1A, Vf=3.6V, the XR-E Tj will be 54C, but the quad's Tj at 1A/die would be 68C.

Even though the thermal resistance is lower, running at the same per-die current results in a higher Tj. That's probably why these are only rated for 700mA/die - with all 4 dies powered, the per-die thermal resistance is actually HIGHER than with an XR-E.

Why?

It's because the packaging thermal resistance hasn't improved at all. The total junction->heat sink thermal resistance is the sum of the junction->attach thermal resistance, plus the package thermal resistance. By putting 4 dies in the same package, you've reduced the junction->attach thermal resistance by 4 (assuming the same total input power to the device), but the package thermal resistance hasn't changed at all. 

The 8C/W of the XR-E is likely 6ish C/W of junction->attach (the die), plus 2C/W for the package. Stick 4 of those same dies into one package, now junction->attach is 1/4 (so 1.5C/W). Improve the package a bit to reduce it, and now you're down to 3C/W, and you haven't done a thing to the thermal resistance of the individual dies. Your only R&D has gone into packaging - after all, why mess around with your dies when you don't have to?

It was the same with the Seoul P7. The thermal resistance is significantly lower than with the P4, but Seoul couldn't do anything to the dies, since they buy them from Cree - it's simply a result of sticking 4 of them in one package, and looking at the total power input to the package being spread out into 4 dies, instead of one.


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## mr.snakeman

So, who´se going to be first on the market with this new Cree? I´ve read mention of this type of led on the Surefire website- will they be first? At LIGHTFAIR Int.? If anyone is planning to attend, please let the rest of us know what you find.:twothumbs


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## IMSabbel

Reading this, i think thats the reason why we didnt hear anything from Fenix about P7 lights...

Also, i just dont like the parallel nature of the P7. Apart from the "parallel=suboptimal" part, multi-amps currents at low voltages just are not nice. Every contact point, switch, cable sucks away efficiency like cracy.


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## TigerhawkT3

TigerhawkT3 said:


> With a whole lot of heatsinking, one of these in 2S2P DD off a pair of 14500s could make for an interesting Minimag.





lumenlover2 said:


> OMG these must be the days when the god of all flashlights finally comes onto the earth !





Jarzaa said:


> WOW what a sleeper light that would be. You would just have to make a solid copper pill and wire the led direct drive with chips 2s2p and you could have over 500 lumen minimag. I think that would be perfectly doable with one of these leds.



I guess I have a new project ahead of me.


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## txgp17

I can't wait to see what Milkyspit does with one (or three) of those. And image what Gene Malkoff's M60's will be like when he gets hold of a few.


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## Kiessling

While retaining the physical size of the XR-E, the die area is still four times larger, meaning our XR-E reflectors most likey won't work.


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## FredM

Could this be used by Surefire as a possible replacement int he L4 for the LuxV?


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## LukeA

Kiessling said:


> While retaining the physical size of the XR-E, the die area is still four times larger, meaning our XR-E reflectors most likey won't work.



They'll just turn into flood monsters it they fit. The fit concerns me because I can't tell if the die height in this new emitter is the same as the XR-E. If it's not, then reflector backs will need to be shaved down to fit. (the dies look higher to me)


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## tebore

FredM said:


> Could this be used by Surefire as a possible replacement int he L4 for the LuxV?



Will it be possible? Yes. 

Will it be easy? doubt it.


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## saabluster

evan9162 said:


> A single die won't have a thermal resistance of 3 C/W. The thermal resistance is the rating when all 4 dies are powered.


Its funny, as I was about to push the "submit reply" button on that post it occurred to me that it was probably incorrect. Then my next thought was "It's ok. Evan will be along shortly to clean up." Thanks. This is one area I've been needing to really buckle down and try to wrap my brain around the formulas involved. I HATE math. So I've been avoiding it. 

Maybe you can help clear up something else as well. I was trying to look up the specs for the P7's thermal performance as compared to the new Cree MC-E and found two different results. This one says 7.5 C/W and this(must click on the "W724C0" spec pdf at bottom) one 3 C/W. Why such a different spec for what appears to be the same part?


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## 4sevens

IMSabbel said:


> Reading this, i think thats the reason why we didnt hear anything from Fenix about P7 lights...
> 
> Also, i just dont like the parallel nature of the P7. Apart from the "parallel=suboptimal" part, multi-amps currents at low voltages just are not nice. Every contact point, switch, cable sucks away efficiency like cracy.


There are two major advantages of serial over parallel.
1) the same current flows through all the dies so it doesn't risk thermal run away from one of the dies having a slightly lower Vf and pulling more current
2) when you run stuff at high current think about resistive power losses with those tiny bond wires. Resistive power loss is I^2R.


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## TOOCOOL

Not sure why you guys are getting so excited over a fancy light bulb 

















J/K :nana:


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## TorchBoy

2xTrinity said:


> I also anticipate this package hosting a red-amber-gren-blue emitter setup in the near future, where independent control wuld allow variable color.


That sounds like a great idea too.


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## evan9162

saabluster said:


> Its funny, as I was about to push the "submit reply" button on that post it occurred to me that it was probably incorrect. Then my next thought was "It's ok. Evan will be along shortly to clean up." Thanks. This is one area I've been needing to really buckle down and try to wrap my brain around the formulas involved. I HATE math. So I've been avoiding it.
> 
> Maybe you can help clear up something else as well. I was trying to look up the specs for the P7's thermal performance as compared to the new Cree MC-E and found two different results. This one says 7.5 C/W and this(must click on the "W724C0" spec pdf at bottom) one 3 C/W. Why such a different spec for what appears to be the same part?




The info for the first link has got to be a mistake. The P4 is already 6.9C/W - I can't see why the P7 would be higher.

I wonder if they mixed up some of the specs with another product (i.e. copied the table form over from an existing web page, and didn't change all the fields). At any rate, I'm saying that the datasheet is correct. It's the one that makes sense.


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## SemiMan

Some thoughts:

- Nice general illumination product
- Emission pattern is not even remotely like XR-E and hence don't expect it to behave anything like the XR-E. You would be better off digging out your Lux-V optics.
- Lambertian pattern....will actually make the XR-E behave better in reflectors
- Source size is going to be huge... over 2x the size of the XR-E and likely 3X the size for the Rebel. Keep that in mind. To get similar "throw", you need a reflector proportionally larger to get the same level of "focus". It will be a simpler, but not smaller unit to get the same throw.
- May not be easy to focus on one LED dependant on the effect of the dome. The dome does have an optical effect.
- Nice they are brought out individually though I would likely drive them serially. Just a simple boost circuit and I am all done. I could even put something into the circuit on each LED such that one failure does not take the light out.
- RGBA.... problem on a single package is the heat from G and B kill the output of R and A given current die technology.
- I don't see the small leads being a problem. They look similar to an SO-8 package.
- 700mA could be 10 watts or 30C above the heat sink. Very tolerable for a flashlight. If they use the same lumen maintenance temp as XR-E (85C), then for general lighting that will require a good sized heat sink.
- When can I get it and how much?


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## Daekar

So, how can we best utilize this puppy? Obviously, increasing the "glass ceiling" is a plus, but what about underdriving? Assuming you have a driver for each core (which is probably the safest) it wouldn't make sense to drive all 4 cores all the time because of driver losses... so if you wanted to run on "low-low," you just power one core. Kick it up to 40 lumens, it might make sense to run 2 cores, but not all 4. This would, of course, require intimate knowledge of driver efficiency at any given current so you could determine the optimal transition points for adding another emitter/driver combination. The only snag is that multiple drivers take up more space, so if we see these appear in EDC-size lights I think they'll be 1 or 2 driver lights only, running the cores 2s2p or 4s0p for a single-driver and 2s0p for double-drivers. Of course, if you have multiple REALLY efficient one-level drivers you could just turn drivers/cores on and off for a 4-level light...

Oh the possibilities...


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## rizky_p

WOW nice one, and keeping the same footprint while packing 4 dies. I like this more than the ugle large P7. Come on Cree bring it to the market. Will need to buy new mag body then  

Guys imagine this and and aspherical Lens 

On page 7 in the PDF file, there is a drawing with each of the four LED connected to single zener diode in paralel, what is it for? reverse current protection?

Thanks.


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## Marduke

An just think, what we see now is the bottom end of the line. The brightness and efficiency can only go up as they perfect the process and make improvements!!


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## jtr1962

Marduke said:


> An just think, what we see now is the bottom end of the line. The brightness and efficiency can only go up as they perfect the process and make improvements!!


Even the worst bin (370 lumens minimum @ 350 mA per die) comes out to over 80 lm/W. Can't wait to see where these are this time next year. I think 550+ lumens at 350 mA per die will be a very real possibility.


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## Mike Painter

The thread " Cree Demonstrates New XLamp Multi Chip Led " has more info and the first post talks about optics...


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## FredM

So if used in series/p it would need about 1.5amps at ~7volts right?


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## mmmflashlights

So THIS is what Mag has been delaying the release of its LED-based Solitaire for.


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## TorchBoy

mmmflashlights said:


> So THIS is what Mag has been delaying the release of its LED-based Solitaire for.


 Hit the AAA with a 5.8 amp draw. Make it suffer! Mwa ha ha ha.


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## saabluster

Just a thought, but I wonder if they are still mounting the chips on SiC with the MC-E. Seems it would be difficult to do in this configuration.


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## Jarl

2xTrinity said:


> I also anticipate this package hosting a red-amber-gren-blue emitter setup in the near future, where independent control wuld allow variable color.



I think I just wet myself 


Love this LED!


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## Bimmerboy

Jarl said:


> I think I just wet myself



:laughing: 

SiSiSilicon CaCaCaCarbide.... oooofff.

Not sure yet what to think about the MC-E. It looks exciting in many ways, and I'm sure it will have it's strong points. But, unless I'm missing something, if you want to run it in series, this thing will NOT be fun to wire up.


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## shroomy

Holy color rendition batman!

This is great, a warm white/neutral white LED, with decent lumens per watt.

I'm freakin excited about this, but I'm so confused. Is this an LED or the holy grail? The P7 didn't have me terribly excited when it came out, but the quad cree does. I guess after EDCing an A2, and falling in love with it's color temp; I'm thrilled at the thought of a light with a couple hundred lumens, a perfect tint, and a long runtime (relatively anyhow.).


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## ifor powell

Bimmerboy said:


> :laughing:
> Not sure yet what to think about the MC-E. It looks exciting in many ways, and I'm sure it will have it's strong points. But, unless I'm missing something, if you want to run it in series, this thing will NOT be fun to wire up.


 
It's designed to go on a board, using them raw in series will be fun... no problem parallell though. I assume we will see various boards avalible defiantly stars series wired should be expected I am not sure what else people will want? these are all potential options you may want from a board: 4s, 4p, 2s2p, 2 * 2s, 4 * 1s

Ifor


----------



## MichaelW

I think that I am going to have to move up my estimation for an off the shelf kilo-lumen flashlight.
Not Jan 1 2010, but Jan 1 2009

That bin (5C 5D) of sub 4000K neutral white is just crying out for a flashlight to go into. 3850K?

6A 6B look good for LED headlights. 3600K, just like the HIR highbeam bulb.


----------



## Mike Painter

MichaelW said:


> I think that I am going to have to move up my estimation for an off the shelf kilo-lumen flashlight.
> Not Jan 1 2010, but Jan 1 2009
> [/ QUOTE]
> 
> If you graph expectations vs time for non- scientists and compare it with the same graph for scientists, the science graph is always steeper. They expect things to happen faster.
> What curve is even steeper?
> The actual time something happens.


----------



## AvPD

How long has it taken Cree in the past to get from this sort of demonstration to it's LEDS being available? The gap between SSC announcing the P7, and individuals and resellers having the LEDs was fairly short.


----------



## WeLight

AvPD said:


> How long has it taken Cree in the past to get from this sort of demonstration to it's LEDS being available? The gap between SSC announcing the P7, and individuals and resellers having the LEDs was fairly short.



Cree has always been conservative in releasing a lot of their products primarily to ensure when they release, they are running down the line with 100% confidence in the product doing all they have promised. This is a new package, albeit the same physical size as XLAMP and they will fully test through the manufacturing process to ensure you get what you have come to expect from Cree. They have stated the product will be available in this quarter and we expect to load orders in July.

I believe it will be worth the wait


----------



## daveman

Cree is very prompt from vapor to hardware. I expect to see this baby out on the market within 2 months.


----------



## 2xTrinity

> - RGBA.... problem on a single package is the heat from G and B kill the output of R and A given current die technology.


IMO that's not a huge problem if the LED is operated with a significant amount of "headroom", ie below the max rated current for the red and amber dice. That will insure that temp. won't get too out of hand, and a therimistor can then be used to feed temperature data into a microcontroller, which can boost red and amber current as necessary to account for the decreasing efficiency.

A system I would love to eventually have at home and in the office would be a variable color temp lighting scheme that would "match" in incident light coming in the window, IE produce cool white light during the daytime to match the natural light in the window, then shift to warmer color temp at night.


----------



## Daekar

2xTrinity said:


> A system I would love to eventually have at home and in the office would be a variable color temp lighting scheme that would "match" in incident light coming in the window, IE produce cool white light during the daytime to match the natural light in the window, then shift to warmer color temp at night.


 
Now, _this_, my friend, is a wonderful idea. Truly wonderful. It might not be cheap, but heavens, what a thing to walk inside and outside with no color transition!

EDIT: I wonder what effect this could have on natural biorhythms? I imagine that if combined with limited brightness variability and implemented properly, it might help our bodies stay in better sync with the day/night cycle and improve sleep productivity, among other things. Getting back to nature through high technology, oh the irony!


----------



## KDOG3

Maybe we will finally see a reflectored LED module with decent output (150+lumens) that will be able to operate continuously in a nitrolon headed G2/G2Z/G3 without cooking itself to death....


----------



## mds82

I hear that the MC-E will not be available for Samples till August or September  its going to be a long wait.


----------



## Burgess

Oh well . . . .


I'm dreaming of a Quad-Cree Christmas !

:santa:
_


----------



## skalomax

Cool. :thumbsup:


----------



## Fallingwater

It just came to my mind that there's a parallel inbetween LED improvements and computer processor ones.

Both improved a single chip's performance as far as they possibly could, then when the technology showed serious limits they dropped the megahertz/efficiency race and just crammed more chips in one package.

Only difference is LEDs went straight from one die to four, skipping the dual-core part.


----------



## tebore

Fallingwater said:


> It just came to my mind that there's a parallel inbetween LED improvements and computer processor ones.
> 
> Both improved a single chip's performance as far as they possibly could, then when the technology showed serious limits they dropped the megahertz/efficiency race and just crammed more chips in one package.
> 
> Only difference is LEDs went straight from one die to four, skipping the dual-core part.



It's past 4 dies. Osram has like 8 or 6 dies.


----------



## mds82

Fallingwater said:


> It just came to my mind that there's a parallel inbetween LED improvements and computer processor ones.
> 
> Both improved a single chip's performance as far as they possibly could, then when the technology showed serious limits they dropped the megahertz/efficiency race and just crammed more chips in one package.
> 
> Only difference is LEDs went straight from one die to four, skipping the dual-core part.



You definitely have a point to what your saying about efficiency. However it is nice that we are able to get such a large lumen output out of such a small footprint. I do some work with auto lighting and this little LED could possibly change the way a lot of products are made currently.

Of course in time the die's will get better and more efficient leading to only better and brighter LED's


----------



## IMSabbel

But still one thing to mention: CPU cores have reasons to keep small.

Nobody forces Cree to make 1x1mm^2 dice. A single 2x2mm^2 die would be better...

Or _any_ kind of increase. Or decrease, if that enables higher surface brightness.


----------



## tebore

IMSabbel said:


> But still one thing to mention: CPU cores have reasons to keep small.
> 
> Nobody forces Cree to make 1x1mm^2 dice. A single 2x2mm^2 die would be better...
> 
> Or _any_ kind of increase. Or decrease, if that enables higher surface brightness.



They have the same reason. To get max yield off a wafer.


----------



## TigerhawkT3

Actually, the CPU industry has another reason for that. A smaller chip means shorter distances for signals to travel, which means a faster chip (ceteris paribus, of course).


----------



## Mike Painter

IMSabbel said:


> But still one thing to mention: CPU cores have reasons to keep small.
> 
> Nobody forces Cree to make 1x1mm^2 dice. A single 2x2mm^2 die would be better...
> 
> Or _any_ kind of increase. Or decrease, if that enables higher surface brightness.



 IBM  has just announced a process that lets them put holes in materials on a nanometer scale.
If this same technology is aplied to LEDs we will see big increases in brightness at the current efficiency level.

The light in a LED is generated through out the chip and we only see what gets out. Holes let the light leak (and keep the smoke in longer)


----------



## Fallingwater

IMSabbel said:


> But still one thing to mention: CPU cores have reasons to keep small.
> 
> Nobody forces Cree to make 1x1mm^2 dice. A single 2x2mm^2 die would be better...


Larger dies are harder to focus.


----------



## TorchBoy

IMSabbel said:


> Nobody forces Cree to make 1x1mm^2 dice. A single 2x2mm^2 die...


OK, I'll say it. 1 x 1mm^2 die is a single die of one square millimetre. A single 2mm x 2mm die would be 1 x 4mm^2 die. 

Seriously, someone a month or two ago made a great post explaining how the yield drops so much when the die size is increased it makes no economic sense to do it. I have no idea what thread it was in.


----------



## space

Die size drop is a yield increasing action.
From a wafer that the dies are made from, there are always x imperfections. These will cause bad dies. If one wants to increase yield one need to make the area of these bad dies as small as possible.

I've made a simple figure for explaining this:








space


----------



## LEDninja

IMSabbel said:


> But still one thing to mention: CPU cores have reasons to keep small.
> 
> Nobody forces Cree to make 1x1mm^2 dice. A single 2x2mm^2 die would be better...
> 
> Or _any_ kind of increase. Or decrease, if that enables higher surface brightness.


Cree has already announced something along those lines. Sometime next year.
*Cree produces 1000 lumen single LED*
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174207

-----

Are we talking apples and oranges when comparing yield vs. size between LEDs and CPUs.
In CPUs a flaw the size of a transistor or trace would cause an incorrect calculation and so the chip has to be rejected.
In an LED the same size flaw would just cause a minor artifact in the light output, which would disappear by the time the light passed through the phosphor layer.


----------



## TorchBoy

LEDninja said:


> Cree has already announced something along those lines. Sometime next year.
> *Cree produces 1000 lumen single LED*
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/174207


That's it!  Interestingly, it looks like it was the same poster (at post 43) who kicked off the talk about die size and yield.


----------



## MikeRD03

But be awary of that there ist allways a gap between anouncement and reality. Perhaps the MC-E IS the "1000 Lumen" emitter.
Who knows - we will see ;-)

greets
MikeRD03


----------



## IMSabbel

space said:


> From a wafer that the dies are made from, there are always x imperfections. These will cause bad dies. If one wants to increase yield one need to make the area of these bad dies as small as possible.


Well, thats certainly true for CPUs, were a single, sub micron defect will kill hundreds of transistors.
But for led dies, the main problems shouldnt be in that lenght scale. To my mind come things like doping gradients and other whole-waver problems.

I couldnt really imagine any kind of similar defect mode to the "one point kills the die" of CPUs.


----------



## Christexan

With LEDs there are other factors as well, voltage requirements change as the area changes (larger dice require more voltage), and there is a heat limitation (more surface area means more heat, and with a larger area, there is a longer distance from the center of the die package to the outer edges which naturally run a bit cooler so the center heats up more than the edges in proportion. Over time this can cause degradation problems.
Also of course there are packaging limitations, larger dice require a larger encapsulation package, which may not work for some applications, and for CPF purposes, result in a larger surface area compared to a "point" emitter, resulting in collimation/reflecting issues. 
Just some of a myriad of potential factors above and beyond the defect rate that also play into the die-size equation.


----------



## Chris_Medico

I was at CREE in Durham today and got to see one of these guys running. Actually I saw 2. One warm white and one cool white. They were set up to output about 400 lumens each. Very impressive!!!

ONE of these will make a wonderful desk/work light for a bench or reading table. I personally plan to use 3 to make a fill light for a video camera. With each of the 4 LEDs wired separately it will be easy to come up with multiple brightness configurations.


----------



## mds82

awesome. did they mention when these would become main stream for release?


----------



## Chris_Medico

They tossed around the words "few weeks" in our meeting. No specific date though. What I can say is that they are real and I've held a working unit in my hand. At 350ma it hardly got warm in the few minutes I played with it and blinded my coworker.  

The only other thing mentioned there was - people outside of CREE have them now for testing and prototyping. I would bet there are people here with them but are unable to talk about it. 

The meeting was on general industrial lighting and how LEDs are moving into this area. We saw several of the coming products from CREE that are very exciting for industrial lighting. The charts they showed for efficiency gains were very impressive. Based on the meeting what I can also say is there are some VERY exciting emitters coming in the next 12months. They do expect the efficiency to continue increasing rapidly for the next few years and after that the gains slow some. I'm sure this isn't new information for the board here but it was nice to hear it from the horses mouth. 

They are absolutely CandlePowerForums aware. 

Chris


----------



## DM51

Very interesting info indeed, Chris M. You obviously have very good contacts there, so please keep us up to date with further news.


----------



## AvPD

Chris_Medico said:


> They do expect the efficiency to continue increasing rapidly for the next few years and after that the gains slow some.


I was worried it had plateaued already because the R2 came out last year and there seems to be nothing new efficiency-wise on the horizon. Also Cree's "Xlamp performance roadmap" ends at R4.


----------



## IMSabbel

AvPD said:


> I was worried it had plateaued already because the R2 came out last year and there seems to be nothing new efficiency-wise on the horizon. Also Cree's "Xlamp performance roadmap" ends at R4.



I agree.
There wont be huge jumps in lumen/watt anymore from not on.
There wont ever again be a jump as big as the one from luxon to XRE.
Its going to be a slow process of gradual improvements from now.*

Otoh, as we are pretty efficient already, i can see the package POWER rise significantly. 
The current quad-dies are only the first step.

* possible exception: a breakthrough in green leds, enabling efficient RGB illumination.


----------



## Chris_Medico

IMSabbel said:


> I agree.
> There wont be huge jumps in lumen/watt anymore from not on.
> There wont ever again be a jump as big as the one from luxon to XRE.
> Its going to be a slow process of gradual improvements from now.*



I don't know if I am ready to say this after yesterdays meeting. While its true a point will be reached of diminishing return, the info presented suggests they aren't at that point yet. The expectation is LED technology to surpass linear fluorescents in efficiency over the next year and then HID in about 2yrs. At that point the improvement over time curve flattens out. According to the efficiency stats they showed us they have already passed CFL. 

The expectation is also that within about 2yrs you'll be able to buy high quality LED based lighting products that will replace conventional bulbs in your home and exceed the efficiency of anything else available. 

The new 2'x2' commercial ceiling light is going to be a fantastic product once its released. Let me tell you this thing is really bright and has great light quality. To get the normal light density on work surfaces you have to put in only 1/2 as many. Also its NOT PWM driven so there is no problems with flicker with computer monitors in office systems. I know this isn't really flashlight related but it does show what they are expecting to do with LEDs very soon. 

Chris


----------



## IMSabbel

Chris_Medico said:


> I don't know if I am ready to say this after yesterdays meeting. While its true a point will be reached of diminishing return, the info presented suggests they aren't at that point yet. The expectation is LED technology to surpass linear fluorescents in efficiency over the next year and then HID in about 2yrs. At that point the improvement over time curve flattens out. According to the efficiency stats they showed us they have already passed CFL.
> 
> The expectation is also that within about 2yrs you'll be able to buy high quality LED based lighting products that will replace conventional bulbs in your home and exceed the efficiency of anything else available.
> 
> The new 2'x2' commercial ceiling light is going to be a fantastic product once its released. Let me tell you this thing is really bright and has great light quality. To get the normal light density on work surfaces you have to put in only 1/2 as many. Also its NOT PWM driven so there is no problems with flicker with computer monitors in office systems. I know this isn't really flashlight related but it does show what they are expecting to do with LEDs very soon.
> 
> Chris


You ARE talking about gradual improvemetns. Over a couple of years.

Just compare how quickly, after the XRE was introduced (even a P4 was a HUGE jump from luxon) they ramped up to Q4/Q5.
That was a jump from 50l/W to 90+ in a what? Half a year?
Nothing in the same proportion will be happening again.

I dont doubt that the revolution at the backend is still comming.
Stuff like the XREs or now the P7 are not even close to realizing their potential yet.
I showed my P7 to a coworker. And he was totally impressed and asked "Where can i buy a multi-spot for my ceiling?". Well, nowhere. Duh.

There is alot to catch up there..


----------



## Burgess

to Chris Medico --


Thank you for your report from Cree.


Glad to know Cree is aware of CPF. :wave:


:twothumbs
_


----------



## chadne

regarding potential for improvements, I remember hearing over and over again about how "we've reached the limit of hard drive storage densities" and time and time again some improvement offers huge increases in density. I think electrical conversion of electricity to light is the same sort of thing. In six months to a year, we will all see another big jump. Maybe not like the 10x increase in storage density that comes from perpendicular recording, but pretty good improvements.....


----------



## LukeA

IMSabbel said:


> You ARE talking about gradual improvemetns. Over a couple of years.
> 
> Just compare how quickly, after the XRE was introduced (even a P4 was a HUGE jump from luxon) they ramped up to Q4/Q5.
> That was a jump from 50l/W to 90+ in a what? Half a year?
> Nothing in the same proportion will be happening again.
> 
> I dont doubt that the revolution at the backend is still comming.
> Stuff like the XREs or now the P7 are not even close to realizing their potential yet.
> I showed my P7 to a coworker. And he was totally impressed and asked "Where can i buy a multi-spot for my ceiling?". Well, nowhere. Duh.
> 
> There is alot to catch up there..



Cree LR6


----------



## space

chadne said:


> regarding potential for improvements, I remember hearing over and over again about how "we've reached the limit of hard drive storage densities" and time and time again some improvement offers huge increases in density. I think electrical conversion of electricity to light is the same sort of thing. In six months to a year, we will all see another big jump. Maybe not like the 10x increase in storage density that comes from perpendicular recording, but pretty good improvements.....


 
Making light from electricity has an absolute limit where all electric energy is converted to visible light. That limit is at an absolute max at 683 lm/w for monochromatic light (green 555nm). For White light it is much lower. For ideal white light it is at 242.5 lm/w. For "non ideal" white light I would guess a bit higher.

Interesting reading about this at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy
 
 
space


----------



## AvPD

space said:


> Making light from electricity has an absolute limit where all electric energy is converted to visible light. That limit is at an absolute max at 683 lm/w for monochromatic light (green 555nm). For White light it is much lower. For ideal white light it is at 242.5 lm/w. For "non ideal" white light I would guess a bit higher.
> 
> Interesting reading about this at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy
> 
> 
> space


I wonder if the light emitting diode will be the technology to achieve this. Probably, but it will require a lot of refinement if quantum dot technology is anything to go by.


----------



## Jarl

Well, if you can think of any 100% efficient machines, then I reckon an LED can also become 100% efficient.


----------



## AvPD

According to Dictionary.com a machine is:

3a.	a device that transmits or modifies force or motion.

And a diode is:

a device, as a two-element electron tube or a semiconductor, through which current can pass freely in only one direction.


----------



## LukeA

Jarl said:


> Well, if you can think of any 100% efficient machines, then I reckon an LED can also become 100% efficient.



They can get close, like electric motors.


----------



## TorchBoy

Jarl said:


> Well, if you can think of any 100% efficient machines, ...


Ooh, pick me! :wave: An electric heater.

How close do electric motors come if they're not using superconducting coils?


----------



## err0r

Or reverse cycle air conditioning. Greater than 100% efficiency is possible given correct operating parameters.


----------



## DM51

err0r said:


> Greater than 100% efficiency is possible


This is never possible, with anything.


----------



## Aircraft800

You're all getting way too far from the topic, but interesting.

Any updates on the new Quad Die's from Cree? Any guess to when a possible release? I have been gathering some parts for P7 mods, but I may put them on hold to go with the Cree if we expect to see them in the next few months.

I did find the Data Sheet on the new Die here:
http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_mce.asp
but the Product Status shows Under development

*Is anyone going to the Pacific Coast Builders Conference in San Francisco, California June 25-27? I'd like to hear what Cree brings out.*
http://www.pcbc.com/default.aspx


----------



## TorchBoy

DM51 said:


> This is never possible, with anything.


Those reverse cycle heat pumps can get a coefficient of performance (CoP) of 350%. If there's a technical difference between CoP and efficiency it escapes me.


----------



## Chris_Medico

Aircraft800 said:


> Any updates on the new Quad Die's from Cree? Any guess to when a possible release?



Based on talking to them it will be a few weeks yet before we start hearing of them getting out into the wild. I wish I had a date or something concrete but they weren't able to give specifics. 

I do know they are real and they are coming. They are also very bright!


----------



## Mike Painter

TorchBoy said:


> Those reverse cycle heat pumps can get a coefficient of performance (CoP) of 350%. If there's a technical difference between CoP and efficiency it escapes me.


There is a huge difference starting with the fact that CoP is not a percentage but a number.

A reverse cycle can get cheaper than any other system because it works to extract existing heat from something that had the heat supplied from another source.

If I have a pond at the top of a hill and use water from it to generate electricity by turning a wheel at the bottom of the hill, the over all efficiency of that part of the system will be high (especially if I ignore frictional forces.) A CoP just measures from the pond to the ground.

However the overall efficiency must include the energy cost of getting the water to the pond in the first place.


----------



## Chris_Medico

TorchBoy said:


> Those reverse cycle heat pumps can get a coefficient of performance (CoP) of 350%. If there's a technical difference between CoP and efficiency it escapes me.



Sorry I know this is OT. I hope you can indulge the temporary misdirection. 

How a heatpump can generate more heat than the electricity it consumes is confusing until you separate the efficiency of the compressor in the AC/Heatpump from the work its doing. If you think of the compressor system as a truck and the cargo its moving is thermal energy it will start to make sense. If you look at it this way and consider the truck can get terrible fuel mileage but still do enough work moving its load around that the amount of fuel the truck uses can seem like a bargain compared to the benefit it delivers.

The compressor in the system has a very low efficiency rating. If you were to use the compressed gas to turn a generator and get the power back out you'll get less than 50% of the power back you put in. BUT the work it does in moving heat around via the mechanical refrigeration cycle is a relative bargain. It can give you a greater than 3x energy advantage (meaning 1 watt of power consumed by the system can output more than 3 watts of heat) in comparison with using the same electricity to generate heat via resistance heating.


----------



## znomit

TorchBoy said:


> Those reverse cycle heat pumps can get a coefficient of performance (CoP) of 350%. If there's a technical difference between CoP and efficiency it escapes me.



An electric heater can have infinite efficiency. You just need to run an extension cord to your neighbors house.


----------



## TorchBoy

Mike - that's right, it's W/W. It's slowly coming back to me. A CoP up to 3.5 then.

Chris - I'm not confused into thinking that the heat _pump_ is _generating_ all that heat, if that's what you're getting at. And why would I care how efficient individual components of the total machine are if they're already doing as well as they can? Intellectual exercise? :shrug:

Znomit - nice, but unfortunately that neighbour would then experience 0% efficiency.

What were we talking about, again?


----------



## DM51

TorchBoy said:


> What were we talking about, again?


Yes, I think we need to get back on topic, please. If anyone wants to start a thread about >100% efficiency, or perpetual motion, or related issues, they may do so in the Cafe.

The topic here is Quad Cree LEDs.


----------



## Mike Painter

znomit said:


> An electric heater can have infinite efficiency. You just need to run an extension cord to your neighbors house.



A couple years after moving into my first house I found out the 220 volt washer/dryer (it was both, not separate units. First it washed, then it dried.) was tied in on the PG&E side of our meter. Never got caught.


----------



## IMSabbel

TorchBoy said:


> Those reverse cycle heat pumps can get a coefficient of performance (CoP) of 350%. If there's a technical difference between CoP and efficiency it escapes me.



They transfer energy from outside to the inside.
(i.e. they have two energy sources: motor power and outside heat. You just count the first one for the efficiency number)


----------



## chris_m

IMSabbel said:


> Just compare how quickly, after the XRE was introduced (even a P4 was a HUGE jump from luxon) they ramped up to Q4/Q5.
> That was a jump from 50l/W to 90+ in a what? Half a year?


 
Not quite that big a jump in XR-E performance - P3 (which was the first release, and what I still have in my bike light) was 73+lm at 350mA, so ~66lm/W. Q4 is 100+lm at 350mA, Q5 107lm+, so ~90lm/W and ~97lm/W. Hence less than 50% efficiency improvement, and it was around a year to the Q5.

The big jump was from Luxeon to XR-E - Lux 3s were only about 25lm/W!


----------



## Bimmerboy

One of my hopes for the MC-E is that the base is electrically neutral. It seems like it'd make sense, because otherwise, soldering them onto stars would automatically put the dice in parallel, no?

If it is neutral, then no worries about having an anodized heatsink, especially for multi emitter builds!

The present datasheet says nothing about this. Anyone care to guess about this aspect of the MC-E's design?


----------



## LukeA

Bimmerboy said:


> One of my hopes for the MC-E is that the base is electrically neutral. It seems like it'd make sense, because otherwise, soldering them onto stars would automatically put the dice in parallel, no?
> 
> If it is neutral, then no worries about having an anodized heatsink, especially for multi emitter builds!
> 
> The present datasheet says nothing about this. Anyone care to guess about this aspect of the MC-E's design?



It would be very tough to put the dies in series if they shared a common electrical connection. Plus the XR-E has a neutral base.


----------



## Bimmerboy

LukeA said:


> Plus the XR-E has a neutral base.



Doh!  Ya' think that might've entered my brain on it's own at some point. But, noooooo... lol.


----------



## Jarl

new info on cree's website 

http://www.cree.com/products/xlamp_mce.asp


----------



## Burgess

Perhaps by Christmas . . . .



_


----------



## KeyGrip

Christmas would be convenient. I'm starting to get up the courage to do my own LED mods.


----------



## Changchung

I come late or the MC-E is released already???

http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut817


----------



## TorchBoy

Changchung said:


> I come late or the MC-E is released already???
> http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut817


Not long now.


> **Please note any orders placed will be backordered and delivered approximately Late August/ Early September 2008**


----------



## Changchung

TorchBoy said:


> Not long now.



Yeah, I see that later when I post this... We have to wait a little more...


----------



## Burgess

see post # 137, above



_


----------



## HarryN

Hi, I am starting to play with mc-e's and thought I would warm up some old MC-E threads here. Maybe see what life there is for these out there.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

z0mg! Cree has a Quad-die LED? :candle:


----------



## m.garlando

Hi,

this is my first post in this very informative forum. I really enjoy it!
I own a Olight M30 (great flashlight btw) and have figured out that my Cree MC-E LED has a unbalanced brightness as you can see on the pictures below! I used a Lens of my DSLR to create a fucused beam on a white wall! Can anybody explain if this is normal or a failure of the led? It apears in all three brightness levels, pics are at high level! thanks

regards
Roman

pics you can see here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pentaxo-san/4159518621/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pentaxo-san/4160273786/in/set-72157622925958652/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pentaxo-san/4159520765/in/set-72157622925958652/


----------



## moviles

m.garlando said:


> Hi,
> 
> this is my first post in this very informative forum. I really enjoy it!
> I own a Olight M30 (great flashlight btw) and have figured out that my Cree MC-E LED has a unbalanced brightness as you can see on the pictures below! I used a Lens of my DSLR to create a fucused beam on a white wall! Can anybody explain if this is normal or a failure of the led? It apears in all three brightness levels, pics are at high level! thanks
> 
> regards
> Roman
> 
> pics you can see here:
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pentaxo-san/4159518621/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pentaxo-san/4160273786/in/set-72157622925958652/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/pentaxo-san/4159520765/in/set-72157622925958652/



its totaly normal

the 4 leds dont have the exactly same vf,

current draw its more in the low vf leds

I find the same thing in one of my p7 leds


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## LEDninja

I came across this picture a while back




I think slightly unbalanced brightness is normal especially if the dies are wired in parallel.


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## mds82

Not sure if anyone noticed, the price of these LED's dropped a LOT!

Digikey has K bin's listed, min order 200, but only $8.90 each. thats pretty good consitering that last time i bought 200 of them i payed upwards of $15 each!


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## znomit

mds82 said:


> Not sure if anyone noticed, the price of these LED's dropped a LOT!



Yep, had to with the Gs so cheap!
Cutter dropped the prices too.


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## m.garlando

thanks for your answers LEDninja and moviles!


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## LightBright

I would think driving all four in series would force the dies to have a more consistent brightness... driving them in parallel, I can see why you might get those results.


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