# SureFire R1 Lawman



## Robin24k (Apr 15, 2012)

Might as well start a new thread for this light that will be available soon. 

http://www.led-resource.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DSCN5788.jpg




















Updated specs are as follows:

Battery: 3.6V 2900mAh Li-Ion (or 2 x 123A)
High: 750 lumens for 1h 45min (500 lumens for 1h 15min)
Medium: 150 lumens for 5h 15min (150 lumens for 4h 15min)
Low: 15 lumens for 37h (15 lumens for 22h)
Electronic head switch with memory
Stay tuned...we'll have a review up in about a week. 

EDIT: Review posted. http://www.led-resource.com/2012/04/surefire-r1-lawman-review/


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## Sgt. LED (Apr 15, 2012)

Projected price on this bad boy?


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## Robin24k (Apr 15, 2012)

Oops, that's an important number, isn't it? :nana:

All I have right now is that MSRP is $455...of course, dealers now set the price, so it will end up being less.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Apr 15, 2012)

> All I have right now is that MSRP is $455



Priced for the 'Beverly Hills Cop'.:huh:


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## candle lamp (Apr 16, 2012)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Priced for the 'Beverly Hills Cop'.:huh:



1+ 

Good news. But can't believe the light Surefire has released use li-ion 18650.


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## pjandyho (Apr 16, 2012)

Now with all the budget cuts going on everywhere, does Surefire still think that they would be able to secure more sales to the military and LE agencies at such prices?


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## StarHalo (Apr 16, 2012)

Hello recharging port and status light..


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## ledmitter (Apr 16, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> Might as well start a new thread for this light that will be available soon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That light looks bad ***. Nice runtimes. Can't wait for ANSI OTF readings!


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## ledmitter (Apr 16, 2012)

candle lamp said:


> 1+
> 
> Good news. But can't believe the light Surefire has released use li-ion 18650.



They can offset lost SureFire CR123 sales with a high upfront retail price.


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## ledmitter (Apr 16, 2012)

I'm seeing the light is only 300 lumens everywhere.






Different model?

Video: 1:54


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## candle lamp (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks for the link. ledmitter!

Looks like the light has a built-in rechargeable li-ion cell.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 16, 2012)

ledmitter said:


> I'm seeing the light is only 300 lumens everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Look at the current catalog.
Its rated at 700 lumens.

They mentioned at the Shot Show they waited to release it because of new LED tech. They wanted to have the better emmitter in it when released instead of updating it later.


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## spc smith (Apr 16, 2012)

But the price!!.. oh the SF price:shakehead


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## Robin24k (Apr 16, 2012)

It was originally 300 lumens, then upgraded to XM-L for 700 lumens, and now the production version will have 750 lumens and three modes.

SureFire doesn't use the ANSI specs, but they are OTF lumens.


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## Fitz (Apr 16, 2012)

Interesting, I wonder if due to the internal charging if it will use a proprietary battery or if it's smart enough to charge any 18650?


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## Sgt. LED (Apr 16, 2012)

If it won't charge any 18650 it can be modded to


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## Robin24k (Apr 16, 2012)

It has a proprietary battery pack with three connectors (+, -, and 3.7V). I think the third pin is for identification, as the CR123 carrier does not carry voltage on that pin.


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## 880arm (Apr 17, 2012)

Looks like we should be seeing these in the wild soon for around $350. I noticed one for sale in an online auction for about that price which made me think it would go for less than that once they hit all the stores. 

A quick internet search turned up an online retailer with the same price and one for a little less so who knows?


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## Robin24k (Apr 20, 2012)

Couple more bits of information...the Li-Ion is a Panasonic 2900mAh 18650, and the 123A battery carrier puts the cells in parallel, indicating that the circuitry is buck/boost. It can run off of a single LFP123A, but it's not going to give you much runtime at all.


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## StarHalo (Apr 20, 2012)

Available now for $341 and change at BrightGuy


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 20, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> Available now for $341 and change at BrightGuy



Guess Ill have to call and see if they actually have it IN STOCK. Optics planet said theirs is pre-order only, and if they dont have it no-one else does either. I call BS on that, but searching the web turns up little to no results with regard to this light being for sale anywhere....Opticsplanet and eBay are the only two that come up. 

Im hoping to be able to get it for around $320, but not holding my breath. Was also hoping it would be shipping by now too, but not surprising from Surefire. I guess most times the wait is worth it though.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 20, 2012)

Definitely BS....Brightguy does indeed have one in stock!


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## utlgoa (Apr 20, 2012)

Now would be a great time for Led Lenser to upgrade the M7R to a Cree XML.

The M7R is regulated, rechargeable, and sells for approx $54.00.


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## Robin24k (Apr 21, 2012)

Runtime test for medium mode posted.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 21, 2012)

So is it a thrower?


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## Robin24k (Apr 22, 2012)

Nope...peak beam intensity is ~16000cd.


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## Melson (Apr 22, 2012)

The price is kind of disappointing to me. If it was 250 I would eventually succumb to its pull and buy one 

I wonder if they have plans to release the UNR Commander or UBR Invictus Rechargeable that were showcased at SHOT Show.

It looks like someone needs to do a Fenix RC10 vs Surefire Lawman review  Any takers??


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## qwertyydude (Apr 22, 2012)

Additional feature, special donut holder feature. You can stack 4 donuts through the handle.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 22, 2012)

Melson said:


> The price is kind of disappointing to me. If it was 250 I would eventually succumb to its pull and buy one
> 
> I wonder if they have plans to release the UNR Commander or UBR Invictus Rechargeable that were showcased at SHOT Show.
> 
> It looks like someone needs to do a Fenix RC10 vs Surefire Lawman review  Any takers??



Considering the LX2 was over $200 originally, Id have had a hard time believing they could get this one done for under $300. Price isnt too bad considering. 
I was all set to pull the trigger yesterday, but figure I dont have to have it right now, Ill wait until more places have them in stock and see if the price goes down at all. 

Looking at the UNR Commander (another new one on my list of things I want but wont be able to justify, lol), the body looks identical. Id guess the tail cap is different due to the different switch advertised, and obviously the head since its a TIR lens. Given that, it shouldnt be too awful long before its released. Id bet it will be close to $400.

On my list of lights to buy, should they be released is the UM2 Ultra and the LX2 Ultra. Might also sell my E1B and get the EB1, or keep it and have both...lol. 

A guy could go broke fast buying Surefires, but so far, all of mine have been well worth the cost.


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## beavo451 (Apr 22, 2012)

What's the diameter of the body?


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## Robin24k (Apr 22, 2012)

All I've got is a ruler, and it's over 1" but not 1.25", so my guess is 1.1".


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## beavo451 (Apr 22, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> All I've got is a ruler, and it's over 1" but not 1.25", so my guess is 1.1".



So it is slightly thicker than a SF 6P? Similar size to a Streamlight LED Stinger?

Oh and beamshots!


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## Robin24k (Apr 22, 2012)

It's thicker than the Fury, which is 1.0" diameter. It's a little thinner than the Stinger DS LED.

Beamshot (pretty much identical to the Fury):



​


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## Robin24k (Apr 23, 2012)

I'm going to try to coincide my review with the official announcement, which is planned for Thursday. SureFire's website will direct customers to dealers and will not be taking orders for the first 30 days, but dealer orders have been fulfilled so they should start showing up as being in-stock.


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## Robin24k (Apr 26, 2012)

Update: Review posted. 

http://www.led-resource.com/2012/04/surefire-r1-lawman-review/


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## beavo451 (Apr 26, 2012)

Good review. One question though. I can't for the life of me figure out how to get medium and low settings. The manual doesn't say how either. =(


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## Robin24k (Apr 26, 2012)

Do you only have high from both the head and tail switches? I think Program Set 3 is actually the default one, not Program Set 1 (mine came with Program Set 3 as default, and it seems like yours did too), so you'll need to change the program set. Twist the tail switch to constant on, then press and hold the head switch until the light turns off. That will advance the program set to the next one.


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## beavo451 (Apr 26, 2012)

Ok. I'll have to check after it charges.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 26, 2012)

Nice review! Now I need to find the best price and order one for myself!


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## BenChiew (Apr 26, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> Hello recharging port and status light..



Is this even shower proof considering the charging hole is exposed?


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## Dr. Strangelove (Apr 26, 2012)

Curse you Robin24k! I read your review and now I must buy one! Oh the humanity!

PS Please don't review the UNR Commander when it come out!


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## Robin24k (Apr 26, 2012)

SureFire has confirmed that it's water-resistant.

Before taking pictures for my reviews, I always wash the lights with soap and water (to get rid of dust, fingerprints, etc. and also test water-resistance). I also filled the charge port with water and kept it there for a couple minutes, and the water level stayed the same so there was no ingress.



Dr. Strangelove said:


> Curse you Robin24k! I read your review and now I must get one! Oh the humanity!


Hey, I said that the final decision is up to your budget or equipment allowance...don't blame me for it...


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Apr 26, 2012)

Melson said:


> The price is kind of disappointing to me. If it was 250 I would eventually succumb to its pull and buy one



I agree, a little hard to believe that it will actually be used much as an LEO duty light at that price. Of course, SF might possibly give the lights to LAPD for almost nothing to promote the branding.

Speaking of the branding, the new SF light reminds me of that music again, the music that never fails to make me wonder what it must be like to strap on a gun, pin on a badge, and become - A LAWMAN!: 

http://www.greaseman.org/bits_album_lawman.html


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## beavo451 (Apr 26, 2012)

I've always been a big SF fan and am very excited that they have finally come out with a viable LEO light. Their old rechargeables were pretty good, but taking the battery out was just such a pain. The packaging, while cool, is a little bit over kill though. Loving the light already!


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## kamote-fries (Apr 27, 2012)

lapolicegear has it for 320.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 28, 2012)

kamote-fries said:


> lapolicegear has it for 320.



No longer in stock....and add $9.95 (or so) for shipping. 
They are the cheapest Ive found though...I paid an extra $5 because I hem-hawed around and didnt order from them quick enough.
Got mine from Bravotac for $335 with free shipping. Ordered at 3:30 my time and had shipping confirmation by 4:30 my time.

Cant wait to get it. Been waiting a long time for a replacement from SF for my 8AX, and Im hoping that maybe this will fit in the holster the 8AX rode in for the last 6 years...otherwise the wait will be on again for the correct holster! LOL!


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## Robin24k (Apr 28, 2012)

If it's an open-top holster, it should work fine. I'm using a Pelican 7060 holster, which fits pretty much everything...ML125, R1 Lawman, Stinger DS LED, etc.


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## jalcon (Apr 28, 2012)

Lodogg2221 said:


> No longer in stock....and add $9.95 (or so) for shipping.
> They are the cheapest Ive found though...I paid an extra $5 because I hem-hawed around and didnt order from them quick enough.
> Got mine from Bravotac for $335 with free shipping. Ordered at 3:30 my time and had shipping confirmation by 4:30 my time.
> 
> Cant wait to get it. Been waiting a long time for a replacement from SF for my 8AX, and Im hoping that maybe this will fit in the holster the 8AX rode in for the last 6 years...otherwise the wait will be on again for the correct holster! LOL!


 
LAPG has 10% off coupons all the time..so your looking at around 300 shipped


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## python (Apr 29, 2012)

Good review, tkanks!!! :thumbsup:
The problem is the SF price.
I'll wait for price drop.
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## pjandyho (Apr 30, 2012)

Hi Robin,

Do you have a comparison photo to show the difference between the Lawman and some other two batteries SF lights like E2DL, E2L, or even E2L AA? The last I remember, the Lawman seems huge in the hands of the SF spokesman during one of the SHOT Show video.


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## Size15's (Apr 30, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> If it's an open-top holster, it should work fine. I'm using a Pelican 7060 holster, which fits pretty much everything...ML125, R1 Lawman, Stinger DS LED, etc.


It'd be cool to see photos of the R1 compared to other daylights; past and current to see how it sizes against them please


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## Robin24k (Apr 30, 2012)

There's a picture in the conclusion section of my review. 


​It's actually quite small compared to the other lights, and I can feel a difference in size and weight between it and the Stinger DS LED that I usually carry.


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## pjandyho (Apr 30, 2012)

It that a Fury on the extreme left? If that is then I think the Lawman is huge in comparison to it.


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## Robin24k (Apr 30, 2012)

Yes, that's a Fury on the left. Keep in mind that the R1 is designed to compete with mid-sized rechargeable systems, not tactical-sized lights.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 30, 2012)

Well, I think Robin mentioned it, but on my R1 the tailcap switch is VERY stiff. 
No way Ill be using this as I did my 8AX. Could use that for a long time holding the tailcap switch in, as well as any of my other SF lights, but either mine has an issue, or Surefire needs to address the ridiculous pressure required to maintain the light "ON" with the tailcap. 
Im hoping its an issue with mine only, but if not, c=ant help but think they didnt really do much field testing with officers before pronouncing it ready to go...I know several including myself that dont like the idea of having to hold that thing down during a traffic stop for a long time, or having to switch grips to activate it from the front for constant....the old one wasnt that way, and while I can see having it more stiff, mine is ridiculously so. 
Again, Im hoping mine is just a fluke....Ive got big, strong hands, so a bit stiffer isnt an issue, as I did read that before I ordered, but this is bad. 

BTW, I did email Surefire to ask them about the switch....awaiting their response. Hopefully it wont be "we purposely designed it that way", or Ill be one unhappy camper.
I know Robin said in his review that it was like that to prevent accidental activation in a "tactical situation", but then why werent the M3 and any of the others like that too? 
Id say its got to do with the battery, and they had no easy way around it. My tailcap appears to be contacting the "removal ring" (for lack of a better term) at the same time as the cap hits the body to activate. Has marks on it consistent with the position of the ring. 

Dunno....maybe I really do have a bad one...it happens. 
Hopefully thats it. Will follow up when I know whats up for sure. Until its resolved, this one wont be on my belt though...back to the 8AX until then. 

BTW again, the good news is, it will fit in the holster for the 8AX nicely. 

Also, size wise, if you have a 9AN Commander (as I do), its the same size, minus the barrel width. Width wise, its like the 8AX. Just think of it as a more slender, much brighter, rechargeable 9AN with a REALLY stiff tailcap switch (jury is out on the last until I hear back from SF).

I really like the light. I think the brightness setting they chose will work well for a number of situations...I would like a bit lower low like for use in the car for paperwork or something, but it will do until they release the dongle (LOL) for it! 

Again, I know others have said it, but thanks Robin24K for the review!


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## beavo451 (Apr 30, 2012)

My tail switch is pretty stiff as well. Just a little bit stiffer than the 6PX Tactical I have. I also have a 6P Defender that is about 5 years old and the switch is noticeably softer. Then again, I also have a 10 year old E2 with a stiffer switch.

I just use the side switch.


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## Robin24k (Apr 30, 2012)

It's stiff, and that's normal...it was the first thing I mentioned to them, and the response was that it's designed to prevent accidental activation in tactical situations (hence the raised lip on the tail cap as well). Unscrewing the tailcap about 1/3 turn from constant on should make it a bit better, but if you want constant on, it's better to use the head switch or twist the tailcap, rather than holding down the tail switch. Keep in mind that if the light is on, tapping the tail switch will turn it off, so you probably don't want that to happen unintentionally.

My guess is that the R1 is designed for use primarily with the head switch, especially if you're using a multi-mode program set. I've got medium mode in memory for the head switch, so if I need more light, I can just twist the tailcap.



Lodogg2221 said:


> Id say its got to do with the battery, and they had no easy way around it. My tailcap appears to be contacting the "removal ring" (for lack of a better term) at the same time as the cap hits the body to activate. Has marks on it consistent with the position of the ring.


Mine has that too. It's probably from using constant on, not momentary. The removal ring does not serve any electrical purpose, the tail switch briges the center contact to the body.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 30, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> Mine has that too. It's probably from using constant on, not momentary. The removal ring does not serve any electrical purpose, the tail switch briges the center contact to the body.



I wonder if thats part of the issue. Maybe if the bottom of the inside contact ring was shaved a bit so that it didnt make contact, it would alleviate some of the issue? 
Just thinking out loud, but Ive been playing with it a bit, and it almost needs to be rocked to the side to activate if its screwed down too far.

Not really something I expect from SF...but we will see where, if anywhere, it goes. 

My real issue is that I want the light off when I want it off...and on when I want it on, which is why I MUCH prefer the momentary on. Basically, when I let go, I dont want to have to "click" it off. It also means I might as well have only one setting if I have to use the head switch, which kind of defeats the purpose. 
Its more what Im used to, and as Surefire said its a direct replacement for my 8AX, and all of their other lights are designed with tailcap switch as the primary switch, Id think this would be the same, with an auxiliary head switch. It would seem that the opposite is true. 
If so, Id then ask, why would they decide to change what LE likes in lights? 
Its the reason Streamlight went to a tailcap switch....or a DS version. 

Anyway....Ill either get used to it or get rid of it if SF says thats the way its supposed to be. It will be the first SF Ive ever gotten rid of if that happens though...


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## Illum (Apr 30, 2012)

So this is what the beloved L7 turned into hey.... 
hmm, :thinking:


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## Robin24k (Apr 30, 2012)

Are you primarily using it in momentary from the tail switch? Tailcap switches tend to be preferred on smaller lights, and the R1 is the first SureFire with a head switch (if I'm not mistaken), so it's definately something different.

Usually there's a preference towards head switches on larger lights, so it's not trying to change LE habits. Imagine having to use a tail switch on the UDR Dominator...



Lodogg2221 said:


> I wonder if thats part of the issue. Maybe if the bottom of the inside contact ring was shaved a bit so that it didnt make contact, it would alleviate some of the issue?


Resistance comes from the tailcap spring, not the battery (it doesn't move), so I don't think it's related.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 30, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> Are you primarily using it in momentary from the tail switch? Tailcap switches tend to be preferred on smaller lights, and the R1 is the first SureFire with a head switch (if I'm not mistaken), so it's definately something different.
> 
> Usually there's a preference towards head switches on larger lights, so it's not trying to change LE habits. Imagine having to use a tail switch on the UDR Dominator...
> 
> ...



I am primarily using the momentary, as thats what I tend to need. Not a lot of times working where I want my light on constantly....even searching houses/businesses I prefer momentary. 
As I said, the 9AN Commander is actually bigger, and tailcap only. It works flawlessly. My 8AN is almost as big, and Id classify it as the same size class, with tailcap only. 
The UNR Commander doesnt have a head switch, nor the M3 or UM3....so obviously its not a size thing with SF. Its just odd to me...I dont mind it, I just want the tailcap to work like it should, with less resistance. 
The hood is enough to keep accidental activation at bay.

I guess Im just being picky, but when you pay over $300 for one light, you can be. They advertise the light as being able to use the head switch to memorize a lower mode, and I say whats the purpose of that if the momentary is only good for 3 seconds of light? No other light Ive seen is this hard to actuate from the tailcap....thats the issue. 
I get that they dont want you holstering it and activating it. That didnt stop them on the 8AX or 9AN or any other light. 
Again, maybe its just mine, but its just harder than it should be. If they purposely made it that hard to use, why put it on at all? 

On the other, what I meant was, the aluminum around the spring is contacting the battery pack at apparently the same time as the ridge contacts the body of the light, otherwise there would be no contact marks. 
I dont believe there should be, as it leaves zero room for error anywhere. 
On their other lights that use that type of interface, they dont contact anything until they contact the body, and once that happens, they CANT contact anything else because they are stopped by the body, thus completing the circuit. There should be at the least a tiny gap, even with the tailcap screwed all the way down tight. 
The circuit is completed by going thru the spring, thru the inner "switch" which the spring is connected to, which has a ridge that contacts the body. 
Since that piece is contacting the battery body at the same time its contacting the flashlight body, Im thinking that just adds to the problem. 
I actually dont think they accounted for the extra length at the rear of the battery holder. Maybe it was changed along the way and one designer didnt tell the other. Maybe the supplier changed it without letting anyone know. Any number of things could have happened, but the spring housing should be shorter. It should not contact the plastic and the body at the same time. 
Could easily be solved by taking maybe .010 off the face of the spring housing.
Does that explain it better? 
Based on that, what happens say, to a light that is not taken good care of. Has the tailcap removed often, say lots of crud builds up on the end of the battery to the point it will no longer make contact? 
Id bet if you put a piece of electrical tape on the battery, obviously with the hole for the spring, it may be enough to cause the light to not function. Heck, what if you get a nick in the plastic on the battery cover?
Now, sure people should take care of things and not let them get dirty like that, because thats nasty, but its also not really a good idea to leave NO clearance either when its a switch mechanism and pieces will wear. 

BTW, my light, while goofing around with it, came on in low mode from the tail cap. It did it twice while using the momentary function, off and on, somewhat rapidly (maybe .25 to .5 sec between presses). A couple times it didnt come on, or Id have to hold it just a bit longer to get it to come on. It would do it in the first 15-20 presses. It would not do it after in 40-50. I gave up after that. Hoping its just working itself in, but thats rather odd for a Surefire to malfunction like that given their rep for working every time as they are supposed to, no matter what. 
Right now, it seems something is definitely up with this light...Id urge you to see if you can get the same result.


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## Lodogg2221 (Apr 30, 2012)

One other observation....the tailcap rubber appears to be exactly the same size as the older M3 and 6P. 
Makes me at least wonder if it would be possible to put a Clicky in there....of course the threads would have to be the same, but since the lights are different diameters, Im guessing its not gonna be that easy...lol. 

BTW, (I do BTWs a lot if you cant tell) I took it out after dark and my previous bright light, an M3 with MD10, which isnt a blazer by some standards, but its the brightest I had previously, next to the R1 looks to have weak batteries. This thing is BRIGHT. 

Its a keeper, I just have to see if I can do something about the switch. Necessity is the mother of invention they say....so if SF cant do it, maybe I can. 
Ive looked into it a bit further, and now Im convinced the cap/battery relationship is the issue. 
Ill see if I can buy another tailcap to toy with...maybe Ill figure out something cool others might want to do, or maybe Ill figure out nothing (more likely, lol), but since I have an engineering background, I like to tinker, and see if I can solve what I see as a problem. Cant hurt...


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## utlgoa (May 1, 2012)

StarHalo said:


> Available now for $341 and change at BrightGuy



Overpriced if you ask me.


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## [email protected] (May 1, 2012)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> I agree, a little hard to believe that it will actually be used much as an LEO duty light at that price. Of course, SF might possibly give the lights to LAPD for almost nothing to promote the branding.




Funny you should say that... when I initially heard about the SF Lawman I immediately thought of this fellow 










I like the design but I'll reserve final judgement for a beam shot comparison, regardless if it's a Surefire you know it's an immediate collectible item :thumbsup:


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## Robin24k (May 1, 2012)

Lodogg2221 said:


> As I said, the 9AN Commander is actually bigger, and tailcap only. It works flawlessly. My 8AN is almost as big, and Id classify it as the same size class, with tailcap only.
> The UNR Commander doesnt have a head switch, nor the M3 or UM3....so obviously its not a size thing with SF. Its just odd to me...I dont mind it, I just want the tailcap to work like it should, with less resistance.


Since the R1 was designed to cater towards those who favor head switches (and don't require extended momentary operation), maybe it's not the right light for you...perhaps the UNR Commander would be a better choice?



Lodogg2221 said:


> I actually dont think they accounted for the extra length at the rear of the battery holder. Maybe it was changed along the way and one designer didnt tell the other. Maybe the supplier changed it without letting anyone know. Any number of things could have happened, but the spring housing should be shorter. It should not contact the plastic and the body at the same time.
> Could easily be solved by taking maybe .010 off the face of the spring housing.


Funny that you mention it...there was indeed a delay in late March because of the battery. The battery carrier was also changed, you can see a picture of the old 123A carrier in the catalog. That being said, I don't think you will get marks on the battery carrier from momentary activation. Mine has round marks, so it seems like it's from twisting for constant on.



Lodogg2221 said:


> Based on that, what happens say, to a light that is not taken good care of. Has the tailcap removed often, say lots of crud builds up on the end of the battery to the point it will no longer make contact?
> Id bet if you put a piece of electrical tape on the battery, obviously with the hole for the spring, it may be enough to cause the light to not function. Heck, what if you get a nick in the plastic on the battery cover?
> Now, sure people should take care of things and not let them get dirty like that, because thats nasty, but its also not really a good idea to leave NO clearance either when its a switch mechanism and pieces will wear.


Tailcap is not require for operation via head switch, so it won't make a difference (and makes LOTC kind of pointless). Most people won't need to open the tailcap unless they're running out of power and have to use 123A's. It shouldn't affect operation though, but I know what you're talking about.



Lodogg2221 said:


> BTW, my light, while goofing around with it, came on in low mode from the tail cap. It did it twice while using the momentary function, off and on, somewhat rapidly (maybe .25 to .5 sec between presses). A couple times it didnt come on, or Id have to hold it just a bit longer to get it to come on. It would do it in the first 15-20 presses. It would not do it after in 40-50. I gave up after that. Hoping its just working itself in, but thats rather odd for a Surefire to malfunction like that given their rep for working every time as they are supposed to, no matter what.
> Right now, it seems something is definitely up with this light...Id urge you to see if you can get the same result.


Which program set are you using? I've tried to duplicate that on both 1 and 3 (using the rechargeable battery), but all that happened is that my thumb got sore.



Lodogg2221 said:


> Its a keeper, I just have to see if I can do something about the switch. Necessity is the mother of invention they say....so if SF cant do it, maybe I can.
> Ive looked into it a bit further, and now Im convinced the cap/battery relationship is the issue.
> Ill see if I can buy another tailcap to toy with...maybe Ill figure out something cool others might want to do, or maybe Ill figure out nothing (more likely, lol), but since I have an engineering background, I like to tinker, and see if I can solve what I see as a problem. Cant hurt...


I only brought up the issue briefly with SureFire since I don't have any law enforcement background, but things could change if there's enough noise about it from law enforcement customers. From a comparison/technical perspective, the tailcap is definately the R1's weakest point.


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## angelofwar (May 1, 2012)

Illum said:


> So this is what the beloved L7 turned into hey....
> hmm, :thinking:



I'm not sure how many people on this thread even know what the L7 was...but yeah, this is what the Lawman is now. I had always wanted an L7...


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## Monocrom (May 1, 2012)

I like it. But to be honest, with a price-tag just over $450, it's just not going to live up to its name. 

It's like trying to built a great mid-size family sedan. Building it isn't the issue. If it costs $40,000 to do so, then it's a failure. Biggest reason the Camry has been such a huge success over the years . . . Toyota did all that while keeping the price down. 

SureFire built a $40,000 family sedan.


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## Monocrom (May 1, 2012)

angelofwar said:


> I'm not sure how many people on this thread even know what the L7 was...but yeah, this is what the Lawman is now. I had always wanted an L7...



SureFire's only rechargeable LED model. Became obsolete when Inova came out with their (less expensive) T4 model. 

Still, despite being SureFire's least popular model when it was discontinued, I do recall that those flashaholics who owned one; praised it.


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## Lodogg2221 (May 1, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> Since the R1 was designed to cater towards those who favor head switches (and don't require extended momentary operation), maybe it's not the right light for you...perhaps the UNR Commander would be a better choice?
> 
> 
> Funny that you mention it...there was indeed a delay in late March because of the battery. The battery carrier was also changed, you can see a picture of the old 123A carrier in the catalog. That being said, I don't think you will get marks on the battery carrier from momentary activation. Mine has round marks, so it seems like it's from twisting for constant on.
> ...



Maybe so on the Commander....of course that was on my list of things to buy too...lol.

My cap had minor marks, about 1/4" long in two places when I first removed the cap. Further fiddling has created a ring all the way around the spring retainer/cap. Seems consistant with what you are saying. 

I believe Im on one. No strobe but multi-level from the head switch. After writing this, I havent been able to duplicate it myself....so maybe that was an anomoly. 
And I am using the rechargeable pack. 

I dunno. If most guys dont mind, Id say its as it will be. 
Im going to call today and see if they can at least send me a tailcap...then I can play around and see if Im right or all wet. 
If I am, maybe it will help them should they decide they do need to do something about it...or maybe they know about it, and are waiting to see if it is percieved by the rest of us as a problem or not. 

BTW, I dont agree about pricing with the others. Obviously they havent looked into it too much, as the price is nowhere near $450...
If its about price and doing a job, why do most law enforment organizations use expensive weapons? There are cheaper alternatives that will do what needs to be done. Same with body armor. Heck, same with anything we use. 
Its not about the lowest bidder when your life is on the line, its about the tool that works when its most likely to fail. Surefire does that.


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## Monocrom (May 1, 2012)

Lodogg2221 said:


> If its about price and doing a job, why do most law enforcement organizations use expensive weapons? There are cheaper alternatives that will do what needs to be done. Same with body armor. Heck, same with anything we use.
> Its not about the lowest bidder when your life is on the line, its about the tool that works when its most likely to fail. Surefire does that.



Which law enforcement organizations? Definitely not most of the ones in America. Budget concerns definitely play a huge role with regards to selection of gear. NYPD was one of the last L.E. organizations to transition to auto-pistols. Despite being huge and having a huge budget, officers were often issued the same S&W Model 10s for decades. It wasn't unusual for the very same model 10 to be issued to three or four officers during their careers until they were promoted to the rank of Detective or until they retired. Not unusual at all for the blued finish on one side (the left side for a right-handed officer) to be almost completely worn away due to constant carry in a holster, as well as constant re-holstering at the range. 

I know of officers outside the NYPD who have purchased used vests because their department was too small (thus budget was too small) to issue vests to all the officers. Some new officers can't afford a brand new vest, so they buy used until they can save up for a new one. Not always the best idea. But do know of one whose live was saved due to his recently-purchased used vest.

Many smaller departments require officers to buy their own sidearm even though the department has (technically anyway) "issued" the weapon to them. Holsters, and often other duty gear too. Often if you see an officer with an expensive weapon, it's one that the officer purchased with his own money and that was on the department's approved list of firearms.

Let's take another huge L.E. organization, and focus on flashlights. LAPD issues Pelican 7060 LED model. Best flashlight out there? Extremely expensive one? No, not really. Unless the new R1 is going to be priced right around as much as a 7060, forget it. Individual purchase item by an officer? That's a different story. Standard issue? Once again, it needs to be at a certain price-point. And, most likely, the LAPD got a nice discount from Pelican for putting in such a massive, bulk, order.


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## Lodogg2221 (May 1, 2012)

Monocrom said:


> Which law enforcement organizations? Definitely not most of the ones in America.


Id disagree. How many departments issue Glock? Over 60% Nationwide. There are MUCH cheaper guns available to LE. 



Monocrom said:


> Budget concerns definitely play a huge role with regards to selection of gear. NYPD was one of the last L.E. organizations to transition to auto-pistols. Despite being huge and having a huge budget, officers were often issued the same S&W Model 10s for decades. It wasn't unusual for the very same model 10 to be issued to three or four officers during their careers until they were promoted to the rank of Detective or until they retired. Not unusual at all for the blued finish on one side (the left side for a right-handed officer) to be almost completely worn away due to constant carry in a holster, as well as constant re-holstering at the range.


You dont honestly believe buying anything for the cops on the street is first and foremost on the minds of the guys in charge of the budget do you?
If so, Id ask how so many tiny departments around here can afford to do it, buy NY cant? 
There are PLENTY of grants available, especially to larger depts with the resources to put into grant writing. Either they have no interest in doing it at all, or know whatever money they get must be accounted for and used solely for its intended purpose and dont want to mess with it that way. 



Monocrom said:


> I know of officers outside the NYPD who have purchased used vests because their department was too small (thus budget was too small) to issue vests to all the officers. Some new officers can't afford a brand new vest, so they buy used until they can save up for a new one. Not always the best idea. But do know of one whose live was saved due to his recently-purchased used vest.
> Many smaller departments require officers to buy their own sidearm even though the department has (technically anyway) "issued" the weapon to them. Holsters, and often other duty gear too. Often if you see an officer with an expensive weapon, it's one that the officer purchased with his own money and that was on the department's approved list of firearms.


I cant comment on the vests. IN State law says depts have to furnish vests that meet current specifications, which are generally less than 5 years old. Of course that goes back to Govt spending problems in your State if they say they are issuing but require someone to buy. 
I own everything I carry with the exception of vest and radio. I know what I like, and I know my own weapons. I also know a lot of cops who couldnt care less what equipment they carry, as long as they get a check. 
Ive seen a few carrying their own weapons, but its not because the dept didnt issue, its because they wanted something the dept didnt issue. 

One important one, as far as used vests, there is nothing wrong with them at all. There were a few recalled that degraded, and most were the subject of huge lawsuits where all of them were replaced, but the ones that werent recalled will do their job indefinitely. Dont believe the hype that you must have a new vest every year. Indianas govt did, because the manufacturers wouldnt warranty them longer, but that means nothing to its effectiveness. There are plenty of tests out there that prove that. Please dont tell people its not as good when it is. They need all the confidence in their equipment they can have. 



Monocrom said:


> Let's take another huge L.E. organization, and focus on flashlights. LAPD issues Pelican 7060 LED model. Best flashlight out there? Extremely expensive one? No, not really. Unless the new R1 is going to be priced right around as much as a 7060, forget it. Individual purchase item by an officer? That's a different story. Standard issue? Once again, it needs to be at a certain price-point. And, most likely, the LAPD got a nice discount from Pelican for putting in such a massive, bulk, order.



I didnt say anything of departments issuing these lights. Just that a lot of LE I know that buy their own gear because they want better stuff than they are issued, or just prefer a certain brand that isnt issued, will buy these. 
Thats in contrast to what others have said about cops not buying expensive things. 
They may not be department issued, but cops will buy them. 
That was my point....hopefully now with the above book, its a bit clearer.


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## Monocrom (May 1, 2012)

Lodogg2221 said:


> Id disagree. How many departments issue Glock? Over 60% Nationwide. There are MUCH cheaper guns available to LE.



Glocks are actually pretty inexpensive compared to other pistols of similar quality and reliability. A brand new Glock 17 is about $500. Compare that to a SIG P226 at just under $1,000. Or, an H&K USP9 at around $750. A full-size Glock, such as the model 17, is actually a very good bargain compared to the competition. 




> You don't honestly believe buying anything for the cops on the street is first and foremost on the minds of the guys in charge of the budget do you?
> If so, I'd ask how so many tiny departments around here can afford to do it, buy NY can't?
> There are PLENTY of grants available, especially to larger depts with the resources to put into grant writing. Either they have no interest in doing it at all, or know whatever money they get must be accounted for and used solely for its intended purpose and don't want to mess with it that way.



In fairness, you did specifically mention expensive weapons. If there's so much money being spent on expensive weapons, who is getting them? Can't all be going to specialized units such as SWAT.




> I can't comment on the vests. IN State law says depts have to furnish vests that meet current specifications, which are generally less than 5 years old. Of course that goes back to Govt spending problems in your State if they say they are issuing but require someone to buy.
> I own everything I carry with the exception of vest and radio. I know what I like, and I know my own weapons. I also know a lot of cops who couldn't care less what equipment they carry, as long as they get a check.
> I've seen a few carrying their own weapons, but its not because the dept didn't issue, its because they wanted something the dept didn't issue.



For use off-duty, it makes sense to be prepared. On-duty . . . Anything not issued, whether actually provided or something that must be purchased individually, generally not a good way to go. Some sharks, I mean lawyers, will latch onto anything when they sue on behalf of their scumbags, I mean clients.



> One important one, as far as used vests, there is nothing wrong with them at all. There were a few recalled that degraded, and most were the subject of huge lawsuits where all of them were replaced, but the ones that weren't recalled will do their job indefinitely. Don't believe the hype that you must have a new vest every year. Indiana's govt did, because the manufacturers wouldn't warranty them longer, but that means nothing to its effectiveness. There are plenty of tests out there that prove that. Please don't tell people its not as good when it is. They need all the confidence in their equipment they can have.



I wouldn't make any comments regarding vests unless I knew about them. Whether it's knives, guns, lights, watches (especially watches. So much so, especially watches), I don't buy into the hype. I know about vests, I know about their limitations. It isn't just recalled vests that degrade. If a vest is truly older than 7 - 10 years, I'm not going to tell someone it's just as good as the day they bought it brand new. It's not. And I'm not going to have something like that on my conscience. The front panel is going to be fine. That's not the issue. Side panels . . . That's a different story on a vest pushing a decade in age. You don't have to replace the entire vest, generally speaking. But replacement side panels aren't that expensive compared to a brand new vest. I admit, confidence in one's gear is important. But I'm not going to give someone a false sense of confidence with a piece of gear I'm familiar with. They might take a risk they otherwise wouldn't. 

When I was much younger and knew nothing about self-defense at all, I saw an NBC interview with a so-called self-defense expert who advised that folks buy a kubaton, put their keys on it, then (if confronted by an attacker) just use the kubaton as a handle while swinging the keys in front of the attacker's face in a figure 8 movement. That sounded silly to me. Knowing what I know now, it was disgustingly irresponsible for that arm-chair warrior to give such advice on a nationally televised interview. Who knows how many women were victimized because they stood their ground, took that guy's advice, and twirled their keys in an attacker's face instead of doing something far more pragmatic (such as running away). What that arm-chair warrior did with his advice is something I'll never do with mine.





> I didn't say anything of departments issuing these lights. Just that a lot of LE I know that buy their own gear because they want better stuff than they are issued, or just prefer a certain brand that isn't issued, will buy these.
> Thats in contrast to what others have said about cops not buying expensive things.
> They may not be department issued, but cops will buy them.
> That was my point....hopefully now with the above book, its a bit clearer.



I agree with you completely. The R1 isn't likely at all to be an issued item. But if an officer wants one, nothing preventing him from buying and using it on his own.


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## Lodogg2221 (May 1, 2012)

That comment about non-issued gear and lawyers is a new one on me.
Never heard that before. Ever. We get regular training with regard to things like that (and a whole lot of other unrelated stuff), new laws, changes to old laws, how it might affect us or what we do, etc, and not once has the number one LE defense lawyer in the State ever said word one about using non-issued gear, or any of the other lawyer types that generally give the training. 
As long as it meets the requirements, its GTG. 
Of course it has to meet SOPs, or it cant be used, but that mostly covers weapon type and caliber....but then thats the most likely item to get you in big trouble anyway, so maybe thats what you meant. 

On the vests, maybe Im confused, and Im really just trying to clarify.
On a side note, I know sometimes I come across as arguing, or something else, but Im just trying to learn too...and better understand others points of view, or explain mine. 
Back to the vests.
Ive not seen a concealable vest where you could replace "side panels". 
My vests, the two Ive been issued the last two times, and one that I own personally, have two panels. A front and a back. Thats it, with the exception of a ballistic plate, or blunt trauma plate in the front. 
What vest do you use that has side plates? 

And to be fair, I shouldnt have said as good as new...maybe I just implied it, but they will protect the wearer. All of the real tests Ive seen they still stop the rated calibers up to 15-20 years old, and considering how far we have come with technology since then, I wouldnt feel exposed more with an older vest than with a new one.
Maybe we are talking about two different types of vests?

Anyway, Ill read the response, but will try to get this back to the R1!


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## Monocrom (May 3, 2012)

Lodogg2221 said:


> That comment about non-issued gear and lawyers is a new one on me.
> Never heard that before. Ever. We get regular training with regard to things like that (and a whole lot of other unrelated stuff), new laws, changes to old laws, how it might affect us or what we do, etc, and not once has the number one LE defense lawyer in the State ever said word one about using non-issued gear, or any of the other lawyer types that generally give the training.
> As long as it meets the requirements, its GTG.
> Of course it has to meet SOPs, or it cant be used, but that mostly covers weapon type and caliber....but then thats the most likely item to get you in big trouble anyway, so maybe thats what you meant.



Yes. That's what I meant. Sorry for any confusion regarding that issue.



> On the vests, maybe Im confused, and Im really just trying to clarify.
> On a side note, I know sometimes I come across as arguing, or something else, but Im just trying to learn too...and better understand others points of view, or explain mine.
> Back to the vests.
> Ive not seen a concealable vest where you could replace "side panels".
> ...



Mine is an older Second Chance Level IIIA vest. All white. Not exactly a thin model. I've noticed that since it's white, it blends in very well under a white undershirt. Plus, I realize the fact that I'm a big guy plays a huge role in being able to wear it without the thing printing through clothing. Works well for me. Comfort was a bit of an issue. But a layer of baby powder front and back helps a great deal with that before putting on the vest. I honestly would feel uncomfortable (not in a physical way) wearing one that had no side protection. 



> And to be fair, I shouldnt have said as good as new...maybe I just implied it, but they will protect the wearer. All of the real tests Ive seen they still stop the rated calibers up to 15-20 years old, and considering how far we have come with technology since then, I wouldnt feel exposed more with an older vest than with a new one.
> Maybe we are talking about two different types of vests?
> 
> Anyway, Ill read the response, but will try to get this back to the R1!



If they've found a way to make vests without the need to replace panels every 7 - 10 years, that's great news. My experience is mainly with models that were available back a few years ago. But I agree, let's get back to the R1. Seems like an excellent private purchase light for anyone who truly wants one. Even if the price isn't $450 or so. The price is likely to be the biggest factor.


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## mpkav (May 8, 2012)

Battery Junction has the R1 for $320 and 5% off until the 10th. After tax and shipping its $310. I have been waiting for this light for quite a while. I'm in my 11th year as a Police Officer (all at night) and I know the importance of a reliable light. I have always been one that like toys and lights so I have spent the money to buy quality products that are going to last. Surefire without a doubt produces quality products. The question is, will this light be worth $310??? I haven't even seen it yet but my first impression will be YES. I will know next week!!!!!


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## Top_Recruit (May 11, 2012)

mpkav said:


> Battery Junction has the R1 for $320 and 5% off until the 10th. After tax and shipping its $310. I have been waiting for this light for quite a while. I'm in my 11th year as a Police Officer (all at night) and I know the importance of a reliable light. I have always been one that like toys and lights so I have spent the money to buy quality products that are going to last. Surefire without a doubt produces quality products. The question is, will this light be worth $310??? I haven't even seen it yet but my first impression will be YES. I will know next week!!!!!



I just did the same. Hopefully it lives up to the hype/expectations...


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## Lodogg2221 (May 11, 2012)

mpkav said:


> Battery Junction has the R1 for $320 and 5% off until the 10th. After tax and shipping its $310. I have been waiting for this light for quite a while. I'm in my 11th year as a Police Officer (all at night) and I know the importance of a reliable light. I have always been one that like toys and lights so I have spent the money to buy quality products that are going to last. Surefire without a doubt produces quality products. The question is, will this light be worth $310??? I haven't even seen it yet but my first impression will be YES. I will know next week!!!!!



Thats a bit less than I paid, and yes, its worth it. 

I had/have switch issues (tailcap stiffness) that I dont particularly care for, but Ive gotten somewhat used to it, and the switch has "loosened up" a bit too. As I use it more, I expect it wont be a problem at all. Just had a bad first impression on that one thing. Everything else was outstanding in my book....so its worth it. 
I did get a new tailcap switch, just to confirm, and its the same. I guess now I have a spare to play with and see if I can get it more to my liking, though the more you use it, the better it will feel. 

Anyway, I have no regrets at all. Love the fact that I can charge it without taking a battery out like I have to on my 9AN and 8AX...and its ridiculously bright. I work nights too, in a rural area, and its nice to have that much light available that will reach out in a field if need be. 


Top Recruit, I think it will for you. Ive been waiting forever, and having read all the good stuff, and watched some shot show videos I guess maybe my expectations were perfect. Nothing is, but darn if this one isnt close enough. I dont know how any other manufacturer will be able to even come close. Of course Im a bit biased towards Surefire, so they never will for me, lol.


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## bluebonnet (May 12, 2012)

Lodogg2221, I just wanted to express my thanks to you and all for posting their impressions of the R1 Lawman (my R1 should arrive Monday from BrightGuy). Depending on use, the SureFire "proprietary rechargeable lithium-ion battery pack" will need to be replaced at some point. The folks at BrightGuy have a call into their SureFire rep to see if SureFire will make a replacement battery available for purchase in the future. I know its very early to be thinking about a replacement battery, but I thought it was important enough to find out. If I hear back from customer service at BrightGuy, I'll post a quick note. This is my first SureFire purchase and I'm really looking forward to using it, though simply as a general purpose light.


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## Top_Recruit (May 12, 2012)

Lodogg2221 said:


> Thats a bit less than I paid, and yes, its worth it.
> 
> I had/have switch issues (tailcap stiffness) that I dont particularly care for, but Ive gotten somewhat used to it, and the switch has "loosened up" a bit too. As I use it more, I expect it wont be a problem at all. Just had a bad first impression on that one thing. Everything else was outstanding in my book....so its worth it.
> I did get a new tailcap switch, just to confirm, and its the same. I guess now I have a spare to play with and see if I can get it more to my liking, though the more you use it, the better it will feel.
> ...



Thanks Lodogg. Admittedly I am very green to high end flashlights. I just got on the job in January and hit the streets mid June, so I am green regarding that too. Most of the vets recommended streamlight stinger, mainly for their local warranty service and I almost purchased it, until I came across CPF.

I'll be in a very urban environment, so hopefully lawman is the right choice. Time will tell. Now I just need a back up light I can clip in my cargo pants. A bit OT, but any suggestions on a smaller backup that I can slip in my cargo pant like an EB1, just not as expensive?  $3 bills is relatively steep for a rook, let alone $5 on flashlights all said and done. I understand it may save my life one day which is how I justified the splurge on the r1, but justifying another 150 on a backup is tough to swallow all at one shot..


Knowing myself, I'll probably end up posting about how cool the EB1 is in a few weeks..


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## Top_Recruit (May 12, 2012)

Double post...


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## beavo451 (May 12, 2012)

I have a 6P + Malkoff M60 on the belt for backup. X300 on the pistol.

If money is an issue, Streamlight Stinger LED, Strion, and TLR-1 is a good combination as well.


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## Monocrom (May 13, 2012)

beavo451 said:


> If money is an issue, Streamlight Stinger LED, Strion, and TLR-1 is a good combination as well.



Have to agree. Although Streamlight topics are extremely rare on CPF, doesn't mean the company makes poor lights.They have some excellent models in their line-up.


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## bluebonnet (May 13, 2012)

I am considering opting for the SureFire FM14 beam diffuser for use with my *R1 Lawman* in order to obtain additional flood. Assuming the FM14 diffuser is compatible with the R1 Lawman (1.625 inch bezel diameter), is their any potential problem I should be aware of in using this configuration? Having never owned a SF product, I just wanted to be be sure I wasn't missing something.

I called SureFire technical support and the gentleman whom I spoke with said the FM14 _should_ work just fine with the R1 Lawman. $85 seemed very pricey to me, but I wanted the option of the flip up mechanism the SureFire beam diffusers offer. The way it's going, I wouldn't be surprised to see the FM14 discontinued like the FM24 was.


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## EV_007 (May 13, 2012)

I've been waiting for this light and now have given in to the sickness. 

I've been looking for a light that has dual fuel capability with a fuel gauge that packs a punch. Sure, looks to be a bit on the longish size for my taste, but not so big that I cannot EDC it.

Pics and beamshots as soon as I get it in the mail. I've thinned out a lot of lights since my last beamshot gallery, but have added some newer LEDs that should give this thing a good real world comparison.


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## bluebonnet (May 14, 2012)

I've received an E-mail response from BrightGuy, Inc.'s customer service regarding future availability of the SureFire proprietary rechargeable lithium-ion battery pack for the SureFire R1 Lawman. According to BrightGuy's SureFire rep, this particular lithium-ion rechargeable battery for the R1 Lawman will be pegged the *"B10" *and available for sale "in a few weeks." I know it doesn't mean much until it shows on the SureFire website, but I'm glad to know this for future reference. Anyway, my R1 Lawman arrived today and it is a beautifully balanced unit. Like I previously mentioned, this is my first SureFire product purchase and I'm very pleased with it. It _really_ is a beauty. I'm looking forward to seeing EV 007's beamshots. I don't have the capability to put up photos---or I would. I've ordered the FM14 beam diffuser for the light and expect it to be a nice option.


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## MCorbin (May 14, 2012)

The light has only been on the market a couple weeks. I'm sure Surefire will be rolling out replacement battery packs soon.

Right now I'm resisting the urge to dump a bunch of money into this light....but I don't think I can last much longer


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## Top_Recruit (May 17, 2012)

Finally got mine in the mail last night. So far it's great and as bright as I expected. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm new to high performance flashlights but I don't feel the rear tail cap switch is harder to push on for momentary than it should be.


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## Robin24k (May 31, 2012)

*If anybody's planning on using LFP123A's or any other lithium-phosphate rechargeables in their R1, you need to get a new build R1, specifically one that is manufactured after May 2012.* There is an incompatibility with the R1 and lithium-phosphate batteries, in which the tail switch does not operate and the Fuel Gauge LED blinks red.

I don't know if there is any way to check the manufacture date based on the serial number, so you may need to order direct from SureFire. If you have an older light and would like it to work, you'll need to contact customer service and arrange for warranty service to upgrade the hardware.

Since my R1 is affected by this issue, I won't be able to conduct any runtime tests with lithium-phosphates.


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## Lodogg2221 (May 31, 2012)

Thats odd. 
I guess the dilemma is, since I dont think Id ever use them, do I leave it alone, or do I send it in and make due until they can get it fixed, just in case I might ever use them...

Any idea on what their turn around time is on something like that? Ive never had to send a light in to them before....


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## bluebonnet (Jun 1, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> *If anybody's planning on using LFP123A's or any other lithium-phosphate rechargeables in their R1, you need to get a new build R1, specifically one that is manufactured after May 2012.* There is an incompatibility with the R1 and lithium-phosphate batteries, in which the tail switch does not operate and the Fuel Gauge LED blinks red.
> 
> I don't know if there is any way to check the manufacture date based on the serial number, so you may need to order direct from SureFire. If you have an older light and would like it to work, you'll need to contact customer service and arrange for warranty service to upgrade the hardware.
> 
> Since my R1 is affected by this issue, I won't be able to conduct any runtime tests with lithium-phosphates.



Does your (pre-June) R1 function in HIGH/MEDIUM/LOW modes using two K2 LFP123A batteries by activating the *head switch, *even though the tail switch does not function and the LED Fuel Gauge blinks red?


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## Robin24k (Jun 1, 2012)

High doesn't work, it steps down to medium almost immediately.


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## bluebonnet (Jun 2, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> High doesn't work, it steps down to medium almost immediately.



That's good to know. Thanks. It's still nice to own a light with three battery choices even if LFP123A will only operate the R1 in Medium/Low mode in my "older" version.


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## viciousGLOCK40 (Jun 5, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> *If anybody's planning on using LFP123A's or any other lithium-phosphate rechargeables in their R1, you need to get a new build R1, specifically one that is manufactured after May 2012.* There is an incompatibility with the R1 and lithium-phosphate batteries, in which the tail switch does not operate and the Fuel Gauge LED blinks red.
> 
> I don't know if there is any way to check the manufacture date based on the serial number, so you may need to order direct from SureFire. If you have an older light and would like it to work, you'll need to contact customer service and arrange for warranty service to upgrade the hardware.
> 
> Since my R1 is affected by this issue, I won't be able to conduct any runtime tests with lithium-phosphates.


How can you tell when your light was manufactured?


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## Robin24k (Jun 5, 2012)

If you plan to use lithium phosphates, you will need to call SureFire and check. Dealers may or may not be willing to check serial numbers, but SureFire should be able to look up the serial number. Otherwise, you'll need to purchase direct from SureFire to get the latest stock.


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## viciousGLOCK40 (Jun 5, 2012)

ok, thanks. I just purchased the R1 for $290 shipping included today.


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## TadpolePilot (Jun 5, 2012)

:candle:
Very nice to see what is new in the market place.
Just ordered a SolarForce L 2 M, uses 1 18650 or 1, 2 or 3 CR123a's or rechargeables $12.50 + $2.00 shipping and a drop-in XM-L U-2 
5 mode 1,000 lumens for $11.84 = $26.34 Total.
This is what I have on order. Has no bragging right's and nothing fancy but this is the kind of person I am like a Timex time peace just works.


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## Robin24k (Jun 5, 2012)

TadpolePilot said:


> :candle:
> Very nice to see what is new in the market place.
> Just ordered a SolarForce L 2 M, uses 1 18650 or 1, 2 or 3 CR123a's or rechargeables $12.50 + $2.00 shipping and a drop-in XM-L U-2
> 5 mode 1,000 lumens for $11.84 = $26.34 Total.
> This is what I have on order. Has no bragging right's and nothing fancy but this is the kind of person I am like a Timex time peace just works.


??? :thinking:


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## keystonekop7 (Jun 13, 2012)

viciousGLOCK40 said:


> ok, thanks. I just purchased the R1 for $290 shipping included today.



WOW, excellent price. Where may I ask did you find that price?


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## ledmitter_nli (Jun 13, 2012)

Will I be detained for carrying this light with the word "LAWMAN" emblazoned on its side. 

"So you're impersonating a police officer eh?"

But I love this light. Just its design and output. It "looks" "professional"


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## bluebonnet (Jun 14, 2012)

viciousGLOCK40 said:


> ok, thanks. I just purchased the R1 for $290 shipping included today.



Nice snag. That $290 figure is less than I've seen it advertised anywhere. Did you purchase your unit _new_...and from an authorized SureFire dealer? And did your R1 come with a warranty code?


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## pjandyho (Jun 14, 2012)

ledmitter_nli said:


> Will I be detained for carrying this light with the word "LAWMAN" emblazoned on its side.
> 
> "So you're impersonating a police officer eh?"
> 
> But I love this light. Just its design and output. It "looks" "professional"


No you won't. You will just be mocked at for being the police wannabe. LOL!


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## viciousGLOCK40 (Jun 15, 2012)

Bluebonnet, Thanks! I jumped on it at that price. I purchased my R1 from an authorized dealer, new and with a code. I registered it the day I got it. I can pm you where I bought it if you dont have one yet.


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## bluebonnet (Jun 16, 2012)

viciousGLOCK40 said:


> Bluebonnet, Thanks! I jumped on it at that price. I purchased my R1 from an authorized dealer, new and with a code. I registered it the day I got it. I can pm you where I bought it if you dont have one yet.



I own it x2 but a PM would still be much appreciated. Thanks.


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## j2sin_26 (Jun 21, 2012)

I'll tell you what, I'm no flashlight guru, but I'm a cop who's been around many a flashlight. The majority, of course, being typical Surefire's, Streamlights, MagLights, etc., however I can already tell that my R1 Lawman that came in the mail today is going to blow all of those out of the water. All the aftermarket drop-ins in the world can't compare to the beam this flashlight produces. Also, construction seems extremely solid and well designed; light is perfectly balanced in hand, no shifting of any parts, li-ion battery seated tightly, and easy use/positioning of buttons. I haven't had the chance to use it on the street yet, but being able to throw this into an open-top holster on my duty belt and have with me all the time (rather than the MagLight swinging from the flashlight rings on my belt) will be a huge plus. The light is extremely light weight and just the right length/thickness. I'll post again once I've had a few days to use it on duty- definitely looking forward to it though.


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## peterkin101 (Jun 22, 2012)

j2sin_26 said:


> I'll tell you what, I'm no flashlight guru, but I'm a cop who's been around many a flashlight. The majority, of course, being typical Surefire's, Streamlights, MagLights, etc., however I can already tell that my R1 Lawman that came in the mail today is going to blow all of those out of the water. All the aftermarket drop-ins in the world can't compare to the beam this flashlight produces. Also, construction seems extremely solid and well designed; light is perfectly balanced in hand, no shifting of any parts, li-ion battery seated tightly, and easy use/positioning of buttons. I haven't had the chance to use it on the street yet, but being able to throw this into an open-top holster on my duty belt and have with me all the time (rather than the MagLight swinging from the flashlight rings on my belt) will be a huge plus. The light is extremely light weight and just the right length/thickness. I'll post again once I've had a few days to use it on duty- definitely looking forward to it though.



Well I've no doubt this will be a typical Surefire piece of kit-great build quality,perfect beam and brilliant ergonomics.

But the big problem here is the cost-effectiveness over the likes of Fenix.

I've just acquired a Fenix TK41.

Admittedly a Surefire Lawmaker it ain't quite.

But beam wise it is phenomenal, runs off conventional AA batteries, is waterproof to two metres and has just enough functions (4 levels of brightness controlled by a seperate multi mode switch, a strobe mode and an SOS Mode)

With Sanyo Eneloop AA Batteries and charger it cost me just over £107. 

Whilst the less bright Surefire would cost me around THREE TIMES the price.

And watching the video (first torch they were on about with USB connection,accelerometer,gyroscope WTF?) it seems like Surefire need a dose of the Lord Alan Sugar.

"CUT THE CRAP!"

I fear that whilst the Lawmaker may be an amazing product there just isn't enough extra to justify buying it over the Fenix etc rivals


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## peterkin101 (Jun 22, 2012)

TadpolePilot said:


> :candle:
> Very nice to see what is new in the market place.
> Just ordered a SolarForce L 2 M, uses 1 18650 or 1, 2 or 3 CR123a's or rechargeables $12.50 + $2.00 shipping and a drop-in XM-L U-2
> 5 mode 1,000 lumens for $11.84 = $26.34 Total.
> This is what I have on order. Has no bragging right's and nothing fancy but this is the kind of person I am like a Timex time peace just works.



You pays your money and you takes your choice.


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## bluebonnet (Jun 22, 2012)

j2sin_26 said:


> I'll tell you what, I'm no flashlight guru, but I'm a cop who's been around many a flashlight. The majority, of course, being typical Surefire's, Streamlights, MagLights, etc., however I can already tell that my R1 Lawman that came in the mail today is going to blow all of those out of the water. All the aftermarket drop-ins in the world can't compare to the beam this flashlight produces. Also, construction seems extremely solid and well designed; light is perfectly balanced in hand, no shifting of any parts, li-ion battery seated tightly, and easy use/positioning of buttons. I haven't had the chance to use it on the street yet, but being able to throw this into an open-top holster on my duty belt and have with me all the time (rather than the MagLight swinging from the flashlight rings on my belt) will be a huge plus. The light is extremely light weight and just the right length/thickness. I'll post again once I've had a few days to use it on duty- definitely looking forward to it though.




I'll be interested to hear how it performs in the field for you. I continue to be very impressed with this "perfectly balanced" unit, too. Ever consider a SureFire FM14 diffuser for your Lawman? Adds about 0.65 inch to overall length but provides head protection in case of a hard strike on the pavement + nice flood. Anyway, congratulations on your selection.


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## prop (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm liking the Lawman, but the price is 

On duty I carry a Surefire Z2 with a Malkoff M61 in a V70 holster. On my weak side, I've got a Surefire E1B clipped in my pocket as a backup light, in case I drop the Z2 or it runs out of batteries and I don't have time to change them. In my shirt pocket I've got a little Quiqlite.

I've been happy with this combo, except the Z2's battery consumption (i pay for my own batteries).

Enter the rechargeble Lawman.

The question is, is the new Lawman THAT much better than my 260 lumen Z2? I haven't decided yet, but I'm looking forward to some in-depth critical user reviews.


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## viciousGLOCK40 (Jun 24, 2012)

Last night I returned home from completing a search warrant while using the R1 Lawman. The fuel gauge showed red. I plugged the AC charger into the light and the fuel gauge turned green. I knew this wasnt right so I unplugged it, inspected/cleaned the light/battery and tried again. I did this several times. I left the R1 plugged in for 5 hours, the gauge was green the entire time and when I unplugged it the gauge showed red. Can anyone speculate what might be going on?


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## bluebonnet (Jun 25, 2012)

viciousGLOCK40 said:


> Last night I returned home from completing a search warrant while using the R1 Lawman. The fuel gauge showed red. I plugged the AC charger into the light and the fuel gauge turned green. I knew this wasnt right so I unplugged it, inspected/cleaned the light/battery and tried again. I did this several times. I left the R1 plugged in for 5 hours, the gauge was green the entire time and when I unplugged it the gauge showed red. Can anyone speculate what might be going on?



Robin's review states:"If the battery type is changed, or depleted primaries are replaced with new ones, the Fuel Gauge requires a reset by briefly pressing the tail switch." I'd try pressing the tail switch in an attempt to reset the fuel gauge. Also, does your fuel gauge behave in the same manner you describe if you install the alternate 123A battery magazine and press the tail switch? Hopefully Robin will read your post and offer an opinion.


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## viciousGLOCK40 (Jun 25, 2012)

I tried everything. The battery is depleted. Its not just a problem with the gauge


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## bluebonnet (Jun 25, 2012)

viciousGLOCK40 said:


> I tried everything. The battery is depleted. Its not just a problem with the gauge



Have you had an opportunity to speak with SureFire's technical support? Please let us know what they suggest if you have the opportunity. Thanks.


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## bluebonnet (Jun 26, 2012)

Robin...or anyone else who can confirm, does the SureFire proprietary 18650 battery used in the R1 Lawman have protection circuitry that is activated in the event the battery is depleted beyond specs? I've read the Panasonic spec sheets but I'm not clear if this SF proprietary stick is actually protected. I think it's time to talk to SF technical support to get an answer to this type of question. Thanks anyway.


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## j2sin_26 (Jul 6, 2012)

Alright I've had a little while to try it out now and over all I'm very satisfied. The light is definitely the brightest both my coworkers and I have seen out in the field (that is practical for duty carry). The programs are a nice feature and have allowed me to customize my light which is a plus. Also, the total charging system is a plus and a real nice feature. My only complaint is that the tail button does not lock and is rather hard to hold down for longer than even 10 seconds at a time. Has anyone else had this issue?


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## Lodogg2221 (Jul 6, 2012)

j2sin_26 said:


> Alright I've had a little while to try it out now and over all I'm very satisfied. The light is definitely the brightest both my coworkers and I have seen out in the field (that is practical for duty carry). The programs are a nice feature and have allowed me to customize my light which is a plus. Also, the total charging system is a plus and a real nice feature. *My only complaint is that the tail button does not lock and is rather hard to hold down for longer than even 10 seconds at a time. Has anyone else had this issue?*



That was my complaint a long while back in this thread. Surefire says they did it intentionally, to which I say its BS, though they insist they have a reason.
After a few months of use, its not as stiff, but its still a pain. 
Looking at the cap, the "button" looks about the same as the 6P. I wonder if it could be made into a clicky by some enterprising individual?


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## bluebonnet (Jul 7, 2012)

I had to request a new 123A battery housing from SureFire technical support because the housing was simply too large to properly slide in/out of the R1's battery tube. If anyone should ever need to order a battery housing for their R1 Lawman, the SureFire part number is 21850-1. And, no word from SureFire as to whether or not their proprietary lithium-ion battery used in the R1 is protected.


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## FPSRelic (Jul 8, 2012)

bluebonnet said:


> And, no word from SureFire as to whether or not their proprietary lithium-ion battery used in the R1 is protected.



I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it isn't, and that the protection is built into the actual flashlight as opposed to the battery. Just a guess.


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## JAS (Jul 22, 2012)

I just learned about this light. I think I would be hard pressed to spend that kind of money on it myself, but if work bought it for me, that would be a different story!


http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/r1-lawman.html


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## pjandyho (Jul 22, 2012)

JAS said:


> I just learned about this light. I think I would be hard pressed to spend that kind of money on it myself, but if work bought it for me, that would be a different story!
> 
> 
> http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/r1-lawman.html


Yes it is kind of ridiculously priced, especially if one is outside the US. Bought mine from a local dealer for SGD S$615, the equivalent of US$490, and it was already vastly discounted from the initial S$800+ retail price! Don't think others would have gotten it for the price I paid for since I am a regular there.


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## LB2141 (Jul 24, 2012)

Does anyone who owns this light have any advice on the best holster for it? I purchased a boston leather open-top for the pelican 7060 to try out but the r1 is way too thin in diameter to sit securely in the holster. As much as I would like to find the right size open-top holster, I might just settle for a closed top that roughly fits the light. I'm a fan of boston leather but they are hard to find in buff shops. The shipping back and forth is gonna add up quick by playing trial and error. 

oh yeah.. this is my first post. been lurking on here for years but I finally had a question that the search button couldn't find an answer to! thanks guys!


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## bluebonnet (Jul 24, 2012)

LB2141 said:


> Does anyone who owns this light have any advice on the best holster for it? I purchased a boston leather open-top for the pelican 7060 to try out but the r1 is way too thin in diameter to sit securely in the holster. As much as I would like to find the right size open-top holster, I might just settle for a closed top that roughly fits the light. I'm a fan of boston leather but they are hard to find in buff shops. The shipping back and forth is gonna add up quick by playing trial and error.
> 
> oh yeah.. this is my first post. been lurking on here for years but I finally had a question that the search button couldn't find an answer to! thanks guys!



Post #47 of this thread references a Pelican 7060 holster as a possibility for use with the R1 Lawman.


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## viciousGLOCK40 (Jul 24, 2012)

I have to find a holster as well. I use a nylon belt. The 21" ASP holster is too loose for a light of this cost. Ive lost my ASP while chasing suspects a few times...dont want that to happen with the R1!!


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## Robin24k (Jul 24, 2012)

You can try holsters for the Streamlight Stinger or Pelican 7060, both are fairly close in size. There should be some closed-top holsters that will keep the light secure.


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## bluebonnet (Jul 25, 2012)

viciousGLOCK40 said:


> I have to find a holster as well. I use a nylon belt. The 21" ASP holster is too loose for a light of this cost. Ive lost my ASP while chasing suspects a few times...dont want that to happen with the R1!!



I have ordered the Ripoffs CO-127...worth a look.


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## LB2141 (Jul 25, 2012)

bluebonnet said:


> Post #47 of this thread references a Pelican 7060 holster as a possibility for use with the R1 Lawman.


Post #120 references that I purchased a Pelican 7060 holster and it was the wrong size. Just looking for some feedback from guys who own this light and have successfully found a holster that fits. I spent way too much money on this light to begin with. I'm not willing to run the risk of dropping it while running around after someone


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## Robin24k (Jul 25, 2012)

It has to be an open holster, otherwise the length might be an issue. I'm using a Pelican 7078, and the leather version (7077) should also fit.


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## pjandyho (Jul 25, 2012)

I am about to contact SF on the issues below but just want to hear from you guys first.

There seem to be a machining irregularity with my unit. The internal wall of the battery tube isn't smooth at all and I could feel ridges on the inside surface. I am quite certain that is the cause of me having a hard time pushing the Li-Ion battery all the way down. As a result, the label on the battery was badly scratched up and the corner edges of the battery right where the contact point is was slightly compressed. Taking the battery out is a pain too. I have to swing it real hard a few times before the grip ring of the battery could be free for me to pull it out.

The Lawman was with me a couple of weeks with no other issues but just about an hour ago it switched on by itself, and no matter what I do it just refuses to switch off until the battery was taken out. When it was on, it was on low output, and it refuses to change its output no matter how many times I clicked on the side switch.

So have anyone experienced the same issue?


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## Robin24k (Jul 25, 2012)

I've had something like that happen too. If you touch the positive charge contact with a metal object like scissors (or use running water), it would turn on and cannot be turned off except by the tail switch. 

It typically doesn't happen during normal use, but I'm interested in seeing if it happens to the UNR as well (it will be available in 2-4 weeks).


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## pjandyho (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks Robin. So it looks like I am not the only one with this issue. Mine was sitting on the desk when it just turned on by itself. Good that I was just in the room when it happened so I could still switch it off. The last thing I want happening is for the battery to be fully drained when I needed it.


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## LB2141 (Jul 25, 2012)

Ok a little update... so far the boston leather 5577-1 open top holster is a bust. Too large in diameter and the light is guaranteed to fall out. 

Next model I tried was made by Cobra Tufskin and its for a streamlight polystinger. Unknown model number but it is a plain leather closed snap top holster. Also a bust.. it is huge.. so huge that it is larger than my 22" monadnock. Although the light fits perfect lengthwise, its just way too big and bulky.

Next up to try is made by a company called Aker Leather. Model 555LED. Also a closed top but open on the bottom. I'm not sure of the forum policy on posting links so just google the model number. It looks like the best one I've found so far. Hopefully this will be the right fit. It is getting expensive being the guinea pig. Stay tuned..


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## bluebonnet (Jul 26, 2012)

pjandyho said:


> I am about to contact SF on the issues below but just want to hear from you guys first.
> 
> There seem to be a machining irregularity with my unit. The internal wall of the battery tube isn't smooth at all and I could feel ridges on the inside surface. I am quite certain that is the cause of me having a hard time pushing the Li-Ion battery all the way down. As a result, the label on the battery was badly scratched up and the corner edges of the battery right where the contact point is was slightly compressed. Taking the battery out is a pain too. I have to swing it real hard a few times before the grip ring of the battery could be free for me to pull it out.
> 
> ...



I have not experienced the spontaneous-on issue you describe, but I have experienced a fit issue with the 123A battery housing (please see my post #116 in this thread). If you exchange the battery stick for the 123A battery housing, do you have a similar fit problem? If your 123A housing slides in/out without a problem, _perhaps_ the li-ion battery should to be substituted for another one...not sure that would solve your issue...just a quick thought. Surefire sent me a new 123A battery housing and it solved my fit issue.


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## pjandyho (Jul 26, 2012)

bluebonnet said:


> I have not experienced the spontaneous-on issue you describe, but I have experienced a fit issue with the 123A battery housing (please see my post #116 in this thread). If you exchange the battery stick for the 123A battery housing, do you have a similar fit problem? If your 123A housing slides in/out without a problem, _perhaps_ the li-ion battery should to be substituted for another one...not sure that would solve your issue...just a quick thought. Surefire sent me a new 123A battery housing and it solved my fit issue.


It does feel a little easier sliding the CR123 holder in but it still doesn't slide in and out freely. When sliding both battery types in, it always seem to stop halfway down the tube and I would need to give it a little push to get it all the way down. After it got pass the halfway mark it would need quite a substantial pressure to push the battery all the way down. Wondering why this is so, I stuffed my finger into the tube and right in the middle I could feel this protruding ridge line encircling the inside diameter. I believe that is the cause of the battery insertion problem.


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## bluebonnet (Jul 26, 2012)

pjandyho said:


> It does feel a little easier sliding the CR123 holder in but it still doesn't slide in and out freely. When sliding both battery types in, it always seem to stop halfway down the tube and I would need to give it a little push to get it all the way down. After it got pass the halfway mark it would need quite a substantial pressure to push the battery all the way down. Wondering why this is so, I stuffed my finger into the tube and right in the middle I could feel this protruding ridge line encircling the inside diameter. I believe that is the cause of the battery insertion problem.



I compared the machining inside the tubes of the two R1s that I own. Both tubes have that "protruding ridge line encircling the inside diameter" that you described. Observing beyond that ridge toward the front end, however, one tube appears machined smoother than the other. Whether or not this variance is something to be expected between R1s, I cannot say. Did you look closely for the presence of any burr that might be causing resistance? The reason I ask is that you described your 18650 battery stick as "badly scratched." Something is causing that scratching...correct? I hope you discover something from closer inspection.


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## pjandyho (Jul 26, 2012)

No noticeable burring at all that I can see. Let's see if SF has a solution for me. Due to the difference in time zone, I am avoiding calling them so I am awaiting their reply to my email.


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## dm_graham308 (Sep 18, 2012)

Anyone found a reliable leather hoster for this light? I'm deployed in Afghan so I'm just keeping it in my pocket right now. But when I get home I'd like to have a nice leather holster for my duty belt like the stingers have. Thanks guys


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## beavo451 (Sep 20, 2012)

dm_graham308 said:


> Anyone found a reliable leather hoster for this light? I'm deployed in Afghan so I'm just keeping it in my pocket right now. But when I get home I'd like to have a nice leather holster for my duty belt like the stingers have. Thanks guys



I use a Bianchi 7926 Size 2 Compact Light Holder.


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## Psosmith82 (Sep 21, 2012)

I Called surefire tech support, regarding being able to use rechargeable 123a's and they said they are still not compatible...it is not just pre june model R1's. In doing a google search, this is the only thing that came up regarding not being able to use rechargeable 123a's. They also do not have a way to check date of manufacture through a serial number. He said they were just for inventory and theft purposes. I just received my light today from amazon, so im pretty sure i would have a post June model if this particular surefire rep was just misinformed. He said he would look into it, and i directed him to this thread. 

Robin 24K, where did you get your info from?


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## Robin24k (Sep 21, 2012)

Since the UNR is also not compatible with LFP123A's, I've brought the issue up to SureFire. I'll keep you posted when I get a response from their engineering department. However, just a couple days ago, I talked with SureFire Technical Support about this, and they told me that the R1 should now be fully compatible with LFP123A's.

Have you tried using LFP123A's in your R1? What's the serial number?


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## AirmanX (Sep 21, 2012)

Yikes. The price seems pretty steep and I've been hearing it has a few slight problems with it. But it does have a nice UI and design....


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## Psosmith82 (Sep 22, 2012)

Robin24k said:


> Since the UNR is also not compatible with LFP123A's, I've brought the issue up to SureFire. I'll keep you posted when I get a response from their engineering department. However, just a couple days ago, I talked with SureFire Technical Support about this, and they told me that the R1 should now be fully compatible with LFP123A's.
> 
> Have you tried using LFP123A's in your R1? What's the serial number?




I have not tried using LFP123A's in my R1 yet. I just got it yesterday, and don't necessarily have any plans of using them, but i wanted to know just incase i ever did, if my flashlight is compatible with them. My SN is A02377. Tech support told me yesterday they are still incompatible, and was unaware if they were ever going to be compatible with LFP123A's. When he got on the phone, he wasn't sure what i was talking about, so he put me on hold, im sure to check with a supervisor or someone else, and came back and said they are still incompatible. He wanted to know where i got my information from, and i directed him to this thread.


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## Robin24k (Sep 24, 2012)

SureFire is looking into LFP123A compatibility right now, but feel free to mention me (Robin with LED-Resource) if they ask you again. I'll let you know when I get a response from engineering or product management.


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## Psosmith82 (Sep 26, 2012)

Ok, thanks. Did you give them my serial number or did you just want that for your reference?


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## Robin24k (Sep 26, 2012)

Just for reference. It's much higher than mine, so if the information I got is correct, it should be compatible. I still haven't gotten a response from them though.


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## Psosmith82 (Sep 28, 2012)

Ok, thanks for checking


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## Robin24k (Oct 11, 2012)

I've finally gotten an official response about the issue. Basically, the light identifies the battery source by voltage, and the fully charged voltage of lithium phosphate rechargeables is above the range for 123A's.

This is not going to be fixed in the R1 or UNR, but future models should be compatible (UBR and UDR).


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 3, 2013)

Hello! Made an account just for this question. Been doing a lot of reading about the R1. Ordered mine last week with a mid April delivery date. I own a P2X Fury as well.


I did run though every post here, but couldn't really nail down a small detail: when is the 750lu available? Is it only when the light is charged above 90%? I realize after 2 minutes or so, it derates to 500lu. Thanks. Looking forward to jacking around with my light!


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## Robin24k (Feb 4, 2013)

As long as there is sufficient battery charge (indicator is green), you will get 750 lumens each time.


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 6, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> As long as there is sufficient battery charge (indicator is green), you will get 750 lumens each time.



Thank you. What battery percentage prompts a green to yellow change? I understand charging changes the color to green at 90%. Is it different for discharging?


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## Robin24k (Feb 6, 2013)

I don't have a specific answer, but it's definately less than 50%. If I forget to charge the light when it turns yellow, yellow quickly becomes red, so I usually charge it when it starts to change from green to yellow when the tail switch is pressed.


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## chartmarker (Feb 6, 2013)

Anyone know of any shop that have this fine light in stock? I have one on order but I think its going to be sometime before they see one.


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## pjandyho (Feb 6, 2013)

If anyone is interested in getting a holster for the R1 Lawman, you can try contacting Tony from MultiHolsters.

Watch his video.

I just received mine from him and it is awesome workmanship.


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 7, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> I don't have a specific answer, but it's definately less than 50%. If I forget to charge the light when it turns yellow, yellow quickly becomes red, so I usually charge it when it starts to change from green to yellow when the tail switch is pressed.



Thank you for answering all my questions.


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## Lodogg2221 (Feb 17, 2013)

Just a few updates on my particular Lawman.
I sent it off to someone to install a clicky, but they couldnt get it done, so now its back in my hands.
Ive been looking it over REALLY closely, and the pull tab on the battery pack is indeed contacting the inside of the switch. Not enough to prevent activation, but it is contacting it. The 123 carrier does as well. 
Happens with both tailcaps I have. 

I have also disassembled one tailcap, and will be installing a McClicky myself, as it appears to be exactly the same diameter as the 6P innards. There is a step from the body threads to the internal switch retainer threads...

If it works, its just as easy as installing the clicky in the 6P, and for me will be a very welcome addition. 
I do understand the point of using the head switch, but really, its better to have it on a lower setting since I use it that way, as opposed to having to cycle through different settings while on a call/stop to have it stay on in High mode. 

I still need to find a better holster for mine though. My 8AX holster will hold it, but unless I position it just right, it gets activated by the head switch every great once in a while while Im sitting in the car. 
Too much crap on my belt I guess....lol.


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 18, 2013)

Just another FYI to anybody waiting on an R1 on backorder, I just got off the phone with MilitaryGear.com (very nice folks, I might add) and they told me the production for the R1 has been _halted_ due to some problems "finding the right batteries" for the light. Anybody have any more information concerning this? My ship date was originally April 19.


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## pjandyho (Feb 18, 2013)

TheDarkNight said:


> Just another FYI to anybody waiting on an R1 on backorder, I just got off the phone with MilitaryGear.com (very nice folks, I might add) and they told me the production for the R1 has been _halted_ due to some problems "finding the right batteries" for the light. Anybody have any more information concerning this? My ship date was originally April 19.


So I got the "wrong" battery in mine? I wonder what the problem is. I haven't been facing any issues with the battery yet and I hope I won't. Really wish SF would allow the sale of the rechargeable battery so I could buy a spare one.


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## Robin24k (Feb 18, 2013)

I think he's referring to a shortage, not that they had been using the wrong batteries before...


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 18, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> I think he's referring to a shortage, not that they had been using the wrong batteries before...



Correct. That's what I was trying to convey. Sorry for the heart attack, pjandyho.

*EDIT*: I received a very professional Facebook reply from Surefire concerning the problem:

_Hello xxx,
We had some minor issues with the circuit board on the batteries, but we have since fixed the issue and they are shipping. There is a substantial backorder on most of the rechargeable lights. They are in production and shipping though.

_Thanks, Surefire. Pretty neat to get a quick, human, and relevant response.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Feb 23, 2013)

AirmanX said:


> Yikes. The price seems pretty steep and I've been hearing it has a few slight problems with it. But it does have a nice UI and design....



A recent SF '2013//New Products' brochure has this quote:



> Our P1R Peacekeeper is a no-frills version of our programmable, dual-fuel-capable R1 Lawman,™ which is the most sophisticated duty light ever built.



Looks like the upcoming SF P1R Peacekeeper will be positioned as a less expensive alternative to the R1. Or as SF puts it, a 'high-value daily use illumination tool designed for tactical situations'.​


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## Lodogg2221 (Feb 23, 2013)

I wonder if the Peacekeeper will use the same battery as the R1 and other rechargeables or if they will use a stand alone 18650. Would be nice if it was just an 18650, but Im betting it wont be (a bet Id be happy to lose!)

BTW, the McClicky installed just fine in the tailcap of the Lawman. 
I was going to post pics etc, but really, its all the same as the McClicky instructions for the Z41 upgrade.


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## Robin24k (Feb 23, 2013)

Lodogg2221 said:


> I wonder if the Peacekeeper will use the same battery as the R1 and other rechargeables or if they will use a stand alone 18650. Would be nice if it was just an 18650, but Im betting it wont be (a bet Id be happy to lose!)


Given that the R1/UNR/UBR battery magazine is 4.2" and the P1R is 5.4", it would be a really tight fit. I think it's just going to be an 18650, maybe with a plastic shell.


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## Lodogg2221 (Feb 23, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> Given that the R1/UNR/UBR battery magazine is 4.2" and the P1R is 5.4", it would be a really tight fit. I think it's just going to be an 18650, maybe with a plastic shell.



Thats promising! Guess Ill have another light on my list of things to buy....depending on the initial review of course!

Could it be too, that it might be a bit quicker to market because of the simplicity? 
I was really waiting for the UM2 Ultra, but maybe this one is taking its place in the lineup.


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## Robin24k (Feb 23, 2013)

Hopefully it doesn't make it to market too quick...my backlog is already growing...


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 23, 2013)

Any chance any of the replacement "clicky" style tailcaps on the SureFire site fits the Lawman? Will the Z41/Z59 fit?


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## Lodogg2221 (Feb 23, 2013)

TheDarkNight said:


> Any chance any of the replacement "clicky" style tailcaps on the SureFire site fits the Lawman? Will the Z41/Z59 fit?



Not a chance. The Lawman uses a larger diameter tailcap to fit the larger diameter body.

The interesting thing though, is that the switch itself, the internals, are set in a reduced diameter threaded base in the bottom of the tailcap.
Thats why the McClicky works. The threads are the same size for that portion of the tailcap. 
So basically, unless you are willing to modify your tailcap, you cant get a clicky....

If I were to do it over again, Id buy a 1/8" or 3/16" end mill for my drill press, and take just the head off the rivet in the Surefire cap, then save all the parts so I could put it back together with a screw (like Surefire used to) if I ever wanted to go back, and not have a damaged boot. 
Actually, I can do just that, but the aluminum disk took a bit of damage from using a regular drill bit. 

I did use the hardpress boot. I got all 3, the soft, medium and hard, but like the fact that its so hard to press to get it clicked on.
Its not all that hard to do, but harder than a normal Surefire clicky....

Its probably not for everyone, but if you want a clicky, its a pretty easy mod.


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 24, 2013)

Makes sense. So all I need to do is follow the same instructions on this Video?

Or here: McClicky Install

Thanks for helping out a new guy!


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## Lodogg2221 (Feb 24, 2013)

TheDarkNight said:


> Makes sense. So all I need to do is follow the same instructions on this Video?
> 
> Or here: McClicky Install
> 
> Thanks for helping out a new guy!



Thats what I did. Worked perfect.

One thing though. The diameter of the clicky switch's brass ring is just barely larger than the battery opening on the R1, so make sure the body is clean. 

Mine works as it should, but I am looking into a flat shim that can go between the body and the brass switch plate, just to make things better all around.
Ive found one, but need to verify that it will in fact work, but if not, I know a guy that has a machine shop, and could just re-make the brass clicky insert with a lip around the bottom of it for me....but I dont know what that would cost. If its too much, mine works fine as it is, Im just a bit...uh, well, lets say thorough....lol.


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 24, 2013)

Lodogg2221 said:


> If its too much, mine works fine as it is, Im just a bit...uh, well, lets say thorough....lol.



"Hi, Lodogg.

You're among friends."


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## jcw122 (Feb 24, 2013)

Why does the initial lumens drop look so severe? Is that supposed to be a boost feature or something?


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## TheDarkNight (Feb 24, 2013)

jcw122 said:


> Why does the initial lumens drop look so severe? Is that supposed to be a boost feature or something?



If you're talking about the 750 to 500 lumen drop - I understand it's not a noticeable difference in brightness, but the power savings associated with it is significant.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Mar 13, 2013)

Lodogg2221 said:


> I wonder if the Peacekeeper will use the same battery as the R1 and other rechargeables or if they will use a stand alone 18650. Would be nice if it was just an 18650, but Im betting it wont be (a bet Id be happy to lose!)



Some quotes from a just released P1R product sheet:




> Powered by rechargeable 18650 lithium-ion battery (included)


 


> Powered by an included rechargeable lithium-ion battery, Peacekeeper can be charged via its AC wall charger or DC cigarette-lighter vehicle charger, both included.






> *KIT CONTENTS: *
> Peacekeeper flashlight, 18650 rechargeable battery, AC wall charger, DC vehicle charger, lanyard


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## pjandyho (Mar 14, 2013)

Anyone having issues with their R1 yet? Mine has been acting weird. The tail cap doesn't feel loose at all but the light could be activated easily even when I had turned the tail cap to where the O ring can be seen. To make matters worst, holding the R1 by the head (without touching the head activation switch), and then tilting the R1 bezel up (tail down) would activate the light.


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## Robin24k (Mar 14, 2013)

That's very strange...if you remove the tailcap then tilt the light, does it activate?


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## pjandyho (Mar 14, 2013)

I have yet to try that but already I have a suspicion that either the battery is not sitting as tightly in there, or there is a problem with the momentary tail switch. When I get back home I will try what you have suggested and see if the problem has to do with the tail switch.


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## pjandyho (Mar 14, 2013)

Oh, and to add to my post above, a few weeks back I could not insert the battery back in after having it out of the R1 for about 2 weeks. I tried forcing it back in and it wouldn't come out no matter how hard I tried to shake it out. Two days later I shook it again and managed to get the battery out. Not sure if the problem has to do with the battery. I will try do a video and send it to Surefire to see what they can do. I definitely can't send the battery back to SF due to postal restrictions.


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## Robin24k (Mar 14, 2013)

Seeing that you're from Singapore, it's possible that heat and humidity might have something to do with it. Check the battery pack and see if anything looks abnormal, or if it's not fitting properly in the connector.


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## pjandyho (Mar 14, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> Seeing that you're from Singapore, it's possible that heat and humidity might have something to do with it. Check the battery pack and see if anything looks abnormal, or if it's not fitting properly in the connector.


I think my R1 is pulling a fast one on me. Just got home and was about to try out what you have suggested. And when I slotted the battery back in, it worked flawlessly! I think something is not quite right somewhere. For the last one week plus it has been behaving weird all the time, and now the problems seem to have disappeared.

3 or 4 months back the R1 has a tendency to turn on by itself. Yes, on it's own, without human aid. Wrote to Surefire and they sent me an RMA but the R1 stopped exhibiting the problem and I did not send it in.

I got a feeling it might just haunt me again later on.


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## Lodogg2221 (Mar 14, 2013)

Whatever it is, its not going to fix itself, even if it stops exhibiting the problem for a while. Id send it.

Having had the tailcap apart on mine, I can tell you there really isnt enough room in there for it to activate unless something else is in there and making contact. The momentary switch just doenst move all that far in the first place, and its captive, so unscrewing it wont allow it to make contact with the body and battery.


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## Robin24k (Mar 14, 2013)

It might not be a good idea to send it back if the problem can't be replicated, especially if he has to ship internationally. If SureFire can't replicate the issue, what can they do? 



pjandyho said:


> 3 or 4 months back the R1 has a tendency to turn on by itself. Yes, on it's own, without human aid. Wrote to Surefire and they sent me an RMA but the R1 stopped exhibiting the problem and I did not send it in.


I've had this happen before on my R1 when the charge port was completely filled with water, and the head switch becomes unresponsive (tapping the tailcap will turn it off). As soon as I dry off the light, the problem goes away. Not sure if this has anything to do with your problem though.


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## pjandyho (Mar 14, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> It might not be a good idea to send it back if the problem can't be replicated, especially if he has to ship internationally. If SureFire can't replicate the issue, what can they do?
> 
> 
> I've had this happen before on my R1 when the charge port was completely filled with water, and the head switch becomes unresponsive (tapping the tailcap will turn it off). As soon as I dry off the light, the problem goes away. Not sure if this has anything to do with your problem though.


That's the reason why I did not send it in. I actually wanted to do a video showing the issue when I am free before contacting SF, but the problem just did not replicate itself right now. I doubt it has anything to do with the charge port since I had it sitting on the desk beside my bed (battery removed). It's hard to believe that the issue would just go away all of a sudden when it has been bugging me everyday for the last couple of weeks. During the last two weeks I tried removing and inserting the battery again and again, cleaning the threads, and even hoping and praying but nothing works. Ok, the hope and pray part is supposed to be a joke. I guess I will just adopt the wait and see attitude towards this light. Thanks Robin for trying to help.


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## pjandyho (Mar 14, 2013)

Lodogg2221 said:


> Whatever it is, its not going to fix itself, even if it stops exhibiting the problem for a while. Id send it.
> 
> Having had the tailcap apart on mine, I can tell you there really isnt enough room in there for it to activate unless something else is in there and making contact. The momentary switch just doenst move all that far in the first place, and its captive, so unscrewing it wont allow it to make contact with the body and battery.


I did remove the tail cap and tried pressing on the momentary switch. Seems to have very little tolerance for any movement. That is why I actually suspected the issue to be with the battery. If it really has to do with the battery then I have a problem since my local postal company would never ship Li-Ion so there is no way I could send it back to SF for the inspection.


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## Robin24k (Mar 14, 2013)

I think you are right about the battery. Try using the 123A carrier for a couple weeks, and if you don't have any problems, then the battery is definately suspect. If the battery has expanded so much that it didn't fit anymore, it's possible that electrical connections had become loose or otherwise damaged.

Explain to SureFire about the situation with postal restrictions, and see if they can send you a replacement.


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## dano (Oct 6, 2013)

A bump inquiring about the rechargeable cell's duty lifecycle. Mine has approximately 100 charge cycles on it, and it no longer accepts a charge. I cannot find a retail source, and it isnt listed on SF's site.

Any other users have the same issue?


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## Lodogg2221 (Oct 6, 2013)

dano said:


> A bump inquiring about the rechargeable cell's duty lifecycle. Mine has approximately 100 charge cycles on it, and it no longer accepts a charge. I cannot find a retail source, and it isnt listed on SF's site.
> 
> Any other users have the same issue?



Call Surefire. My original battery stopped taking a charge shortly into its life, but Surefire replaced no charge. 
I did send my light to them too, as I wanted it looked at as well, to be sure the problem wasnt the light. It wasnt. 

No one will know about the battery life until its around a while. Not to mention different habits of people and charging. Some might not charge it until it needs it. Some might charge it after every use. Those two users will experience different battery life....


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## Robin24k (Oct 6, 2013)

dano said:


> Mine has approximately 100 charge cycles on it, and it no longer accepts a charge.


Is the battery completely dead, or doesn't hold charge well?

If it's dead, you may need to reset the circuitry with a slow trickle charge (keep it on the charger for a couple hours). If it's not holding charge, the battery has a two-year warranty that will cover it.


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## dano (Oct 7, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> Is the battery completely dead, or doesn't hold charge well?
> 
> If it's dead, you may need to reset the circuitry with a slow trickle charge (keep it on the charger for a couple hours). If it's not holding charge, the battery has a two-year warranty that will cover it.



The light's "fuel gauge" flashes red, but the light still works.

I'll call them. SF has always had rechargeable light issues (the 9AN battery debacle, bad chargers...). Hopefully this one sample isn't endemic.


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## leon2245 (Oct 8, 2013)

Robin24k said:


> Given that the R1/UNR/UBR battery magazine is 4.2" and the P1R is 5.4", it would be a really tight fit. I think it's just going to be an 18650, maybe with a plastic shell.




Is there a dedicated peacekeeper thread I haven't found yet? That one seems more my speed.


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## Robin24k (Oct 8, 2013)

No thread and no info about it so far...


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## prop (Jan 27, 2014)

prop said:


> I'm liking the Lawman, but the price is
> 
> On duty I carry a Surefire Z2 with a Malkoff M61 in a V70 holster. On my weak side, I've got a Surefire E1B clipped in my pocket as a backup light, in case I drop the Z2 or it runs out of batteries and I don't have time to change them. In my shirt pocket I've got a little Quiqlite.
> 
> ...



Well, I ended up getting it from a eBay seller. Its been a while since I first saw it, but I finally pulled the trigger. Cost me 270 + 40 for shipping. Tony's Multiholster with Tek-lok cost me around 70. Phew...

Haven't received it yet, but I hope all the annoying problems have been worked out by Surefire.


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## LanthanumK (May 13, 2014)

I just noticed on the SureFire website that they raised the price of the Lawman from $425 to $455.


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## Robin24k (May 13, 2014)

LanthanumK said:


> I just noticed on the SureFire website that they raised the price of the Lawman from $425 to $455.


It was $455 when the R1 was released...


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## prop (May 13, 2014)

Robin24k said:


> It was $455 when the R1 was released...



Yeah, they were always priced at 455 as I recall. Moot point though, as they're going for around 270 bucks last time I checked.

I might as well add that I've had no problems with my R1 whatsoever. I think all the kinks have been worked out. Review will follow at some point.


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## Dave D (May 27, 2017)

I was just browsing the Surefire website and noticed that the R1 Lawman is no longer listed.

Perhaps it'll be replaced by the earlier promised (2013 IIRC) R2 Lawman with the VOC tailcap, powered by a 18650 cell! :twothumbs


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## pdeethardt (Jun 4, 2017)

It's back up on the site with Intellibeam now.


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## cody12 (Jun 9, 2017)

I've always wondered how they get 1000 lumens from one 3.6 battery. I bored my px3 fury and run two 18500s to get 1000lumens. Does TIR and or maxivision make up the difference? For a flashlight that I don't get to hold and use before purchase, I be a little leery.


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## Modernflame (Jun 9, 2017)

cody12 said:


> I've always wondered how they get 1000 lumens from one 3.6 battery. I bored my px3 fury and run two 18500s to get 1000lumens. Does TIR and or maxivision make up the difference? For a flashlight that I don't get to hold and use before purchase, I be a little leery.



There are several lights on the market that push out 1000+ lumens from one 18650, but run time is limited and it normally involves stepping down the output. It depends mostly on the driver.

I bet your Fury is one bad piece of equipment. However, the Fury is also programmed to step down from 1000 lumens to about 600 after a few minutes. Personally, I don't see how the Lawman is a significant improvement over your bored out Fury, especially since the Lawman uses virtually the same orange peel reflector as your Fury. Then again, you might be a hopeless flashaholic, in which case you just have to do what you have to do.


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## pdeethardt (Jan 11, 2018)

So this light still appears on Surefire's website, but it appears inventory on other retailer's sites may be getting limited based on a quick search I did. Perhaps there's an upgrade to this light coming in the near future? Or maybe it's just being silently discontinued.


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## Dave D (Feb 4, 2018)

The R1 Lawman has now been dropped from the 2018 Surefire catalogue, that'll be why the IntelliBeam versions are being sold on eBay for $199. Unfortunately they were too pricey for the average Cop and the choice of battery let them down in my opinion.


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## XR6Toggie (Feb 4, 2018)

Dave D said:


> The R1 Lawman has now been dropped from the 2018 Surefire catalogue, that'll be why the IntelliBeam versions are being sold on eBay for $199. Unfortunately they were too pricey for the average Cop and the choice of battery let them down in my opinion.



The lack of a holster and accessories like traffic wands doesn’t help either.


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## Brigadier (Feb 6, 2018)

Dave D said:


> The R1 Lawman has now been dropped from the 2018 Surefire catalogue, that'll be why the IntelliBeam versions are being sold on eBay for $199. Unfortunately they were too pricey for the average Cop and the choice of battery let them down in my opinion.



Checked the Surefire site today. The R1 with Intellibeam is still there.


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## Dave D (Feb 6, 2018)

Yes it's still on the site, but it's been dropped from the 2018 catalogue and they are being sold off on eBay which usually signals the end of the line.


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## Dave D (Mar 16, 2018)

The R1 Lawman Intellibeam has now been dropped from the Surefire website and they are being sold on eBay for as little as $179 inc shipping.


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## A/V Tech (Mar 19, 2018)

Dave D said:


> The R1 Lawman Intellibeam has now been dropped from the Surefire website and they are being sold on eBay for as little as $179 inc shipping.


Hmm, I just bought a Surefire R1 Lawman Intellibeam from the Surefire websites for $149.-, my third. Great Light for job sites


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## A/V Tech (Mar 19, 2018)

A/V Tech said:


> Hmm, I just bought a Surefire R1 Lawman Intellibeam from the Surefire websites for $149.-, my third. Great Light for job sites



I Just checked back to the Surefire web sight (same day), Thought I'd buy another R1 Lawman Intellibeam. At $149.- what the heck. Can't find it now, they do appear to have been dropped from the web site. I must have lucked out earlier today and found one buried on a search page or something. I might have gotten the last one from Surefire.


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## XR6Toggie (Mar 20, 2018)

Currently on Amazon.com.au for $1230 or eBay for $1458 :shakehead


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## matt4350 (Mar 20, 2018)

I despair at the price of Surefires in Australia. Quite a few I'd like, very few are reasonably priced...


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## XR6Toggie (Mar 20, 2018)

matt4350 said:


> I despair at the price of Surefires in Australia. Quite a few I'd like, very few are reasonably priced...



I’m yet to find a local retailer that’s reasonably priced and offers current gen models. The 6P models are usually fairly priced by our standards but P1R that I like the look of is about $440.


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## matt4350 (Mar 21, 2018)

For sure, more than half a grand for an R1 rules it out, and it's hard to justify the P1R at that price. I'm waiting to see if anyone will carry the newer versions of the 6PX and G2X.


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## the0dore3524 (Mar 21, 2018)

Why not go through eBay? They have the latest iteration of the R1 w/ Intellibeam for around $200 now and there are many sellers that ship international.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Mar 23, 2018)

XR6Toggie said:


> Currently on Amazon.com.au for $1230 or eBay for $1458 :shakehead



SureFire closeout price of $149 :

https://www.surefire.com/outlet/r1-lawman-intellibeam.html


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## XR6Toggie (Mar 23, 2018)

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> SureFire closeout price of $149 :
> 
> https://www.surefire.com/outlet/r1-lawman-intellibeam.html



I don’t get why they don’t ship to Australia direct in this day and age.


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Mar 23, 2018)

XR6Toggie said:


> I don’t get why they don’t ship to Australia direct in this day and age.



I'm guessing it's because SF gives some Oz distributor exclusive distribution rights in the region. There are some IntelliBeam R1's over on eBay listed for just under $200 that ship worldwide though.


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## dano (Mar 24, 2018)

My old school 750Lu model needs a battery...May have to give SF a call, or try replacing it, myself...


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## Vox Clamatis in Deserto (Mar 25, 2018)

dano said:


> My old school 750Lu model needs a battery...May have to give SF a call, or try replacing it, myself...



The proprietary rechargeable battery is why I hesitate to get one of these lights even at the closeout prices. I went through that drill two decades ago with the SureFire 9AN which had the now obsolete NiCad battery technology. After a few years, the batteries were scarce and cost way more than the light was worth. Of course, any light will be overtaken by new technology at some point but the pricey bespoke batteries put the 9AN in the drawer well before the new LED's did.

The Lawman name conjures up fond memories of the Greaseman on WAPE radio and his 1978 comedy album:


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## Dave D (Apr 7, 2018)

I bought one of the R1 Lawman with IntelliBeam Technology flashlights, initially I was disappointed when I unpacked it as it was only supplied with the Li-ion rechargeable pack and did not come with the 2 x CR123 carrier as an alternative power source that the original R1 was supplied with. 

They have also not included the rubber anti-roll ring with the IntelliBeam version that was supplied with the original R1.

Having powered it up in the dark I was impressed with the brightness/throw and spill.

It is brighter than my Malkoff Hound Dog V3 Neutral and throws further.

I was impressed with the speed at which the IntelliBeam technology alters the amount of light depending on the location that it's used in, it's instantaneous. 

The IntelliBeam can be over ridden to stay on High mode and two clicks of the tail switch activates the Strobe mode. 

The flashlight is well balanced and slightly shorter, and noticeably lighter, than the HD MD4, it is comfy in the hand when used tactically with a firearm.






Photo shows L-R Malkoff Hound Dog V3 MD4, Surefire R1 Lawman, Malkoff M91T MD3 and Original SF 6P for size comparison.

It was supplied with a 3400mah battery and I have enquired with SF to ascertain if they are available to purchase or if it will work with the CR123 carrier and if they are available to purchase.

Also in the box was a mains charger together, with international adapter plugs, and a 12v Car charger cable.

Overall it's a very nice flashlight and can be had for a fraction of the original RRP as Surefire have now deleted them from their line up.

My main concerns are the reliability of the electronics, especially the IntelliBeam, as SF have now dropped all of their IntelliBeam flashlights from their range and being able to source a replacement battery for it in the future.

Overall I am very pleased with my purchase.


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## WDR65 (Apr 7, 2018)

Dave D said:


> My main concerns are the reliability of the electronics, especially the IntelliBeam, as SF have now dropped all of their IntelliBeam flashlights from their range and being able to source a replacement battery for it in the future.



I understand the concern but Surefire hasn’t dropped the intellibeam. The DBR Guardian and I think the Stiletto are both using it. As for the battery I’m betting someone will come out with an aftermarket solution.


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## id30209 (Apr 27, 2018)

Like Dave D i have also bought intelliebeam recently and was surprised with a lack of mentioned item but luckily i have found one 2xC123 carrier on ebay.
But battery is still under question mark and still no response from SF about the spare. I also hope for some aftermarket solution...


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## ktsl (Apr 29, 2018)

I can't tell if all these replies are being sarcastic or not. Why in the world would you want such a poorly designed flashlight? And for that price?


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## id30209 (Apr 29, 2018)

ktsl said:


> I can't tell if all these replies are being sarcastic or not. Why in the world would you want such a poorly designed flashlight? And for that price?



Beside all other crapy lights in posession some good quality is also appreciated. And if you have money only sky is the limit ))


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## Dave D (Apr 29, 2018)

ktsl said:


> I can't tell if all these replies are being sarcastic or not. Why in the world would you want such a poorly designed flashlight? And for that price?



Other than it taking a proprietary battery, what is so poorly designed about this flashlight in your opinion?


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## id30209 (Apr 29, 2018)

He don't have a money...


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## ktsl (Apr 29, 2018)

Dave D said:


> Other than it taking a proprietary battery, what is so poorly designed about this flashlight in your opinion?


Where do I begin?
no moonlight
only 750lm for 18650?
proprietary battery
not micro-usb or usb-c charger port
greenish tint :sick2:
high standby drain
no full lock-out
idk, I can't handle twists with one hand
I mean it's supposed to be dead reliable. But just how dead reliable do you want it to be? There are, I wouldn't say a lot, but at least a few options out there that are known for reliablity, for a fraction of that price.


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## Dave D (Apr 29, 2018)

ktsl said:


> Where do I begin?
> no moonlight _*I've never personally needed a moonlight mode on a duty light, a low of 15 is fine.*_
> only 750lm for 18650? _*First version was 750, second was 1000 lumens and third was 1000 lumen with IntelliBeam.*_
> proprietary battery _*I agree on that, unless replacements are readily available.*_
> ...



They were recently sold off by Surefire for $149, cheaper than most my other SF and Malkoff Lights, I wouldn't have bought one at the RRP.

As a duty light it's actually well designed. 

It may have been more popular if the battery was a straightforward 18650 (or even 2 x 18500's) that could be easily replaced in the future and of course it may have found a bigger share of the market had it been at least $200 cheaper.


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## ktsl (Apr 29, 2018)

With all due respect, it seems to me your standard as a duty light is quite low. So many aspects you don't care about.

Then again, why does it have to be this light with this price? To meet your standard there are so many options. 

"It is a duty light. Nothing else. So you don't need this you don't need that." - Feels to me an argument quite thin. 



Dave D said:


> They were recently sold off by Surefire for $149, cheaper than most my other SF and Malkoff Lights, I wouldn't have bought one at the RRP.
> 
> As a duty light it's actually well designed.
> 
> It may have been more popular if the battery was a straightforward 18650 (or even 2 x 18500's) that could be easily replaced in the future and of course it may have found a bigger share of the market had it been at least $200 cheaper.


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## MBentz (Apr 29, 2018)

As someone who has used the 750 lumen version of the R1 while on duty, I can most assuredly say it does its job admirably.


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## id30209 (Apr 30, 2018)

Well gents, as per several dealers info on new Fury DFT, it has intelliebeam technology as standard. Combined with 18650 and 1500lm for a normal price this could be jackpot.


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## XR6Toggie (Apr 30, 2018)

ktsl said:


> With all due respect, it seems to me your standard as a duty light is quite low. So many aspects you don't care about.
> 
> Then again, why does it have to be this light with this price? To meet your standard there are so many options.
> 
> "It is a duty light. Nothing else. So you don't need this you don't need that." - Feels to me an argument quite thin.



Lights for police duty use their simplicity as a selling point. A large number of different modes are undesirable on a
police duty light for a number of reasons. You may need to access the light in a life-threatening situation and the last thing you want is lots of complex modes and UI to muck around with.


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## Dave D (Apr 30, 2018)

ktsl said:


> With all due respect, it seems to me your standard as a duty light is quite low. So many aspects you don't care about.
> 
> Then again, why does it have to be this light with this price? To meet your standard there are so many options.
> 
> "It is a duty light. Nothing else. So you don't need this you don't need that." - Feels to me an argument quite thin.



I think that you are confusing a 'Duty Light' with an 'EDC light', why would you want 'lockout' or 'Moonlight' on a Duty Light?

I fully understand their desirability in an EDC Light.

Why do you feel that a more complex charging port is better?

Tacticool has no place in Duty Lights.


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## kssmith (Apr 30, 2018)

As one who has used a more complex light on duty as well as two versions of the lawman, I much prefer the lawman as my light of choice. There is nothing quite like jumping out of you vehicle in a hurry, needing the highest level of light you can get, only to activate your lowest accidentally and then fumbling through the modes. While still trying to watch the suspects. 
First thing I always do however is replace the switch with the mcclicky. I personally prefer those to twisty types. But these are just my opinions.


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## ktsl (May 1, 2018)

Oh, then why implement the half lock-out in the tail cap and advertise it at all? And not only the lockout, this light is missing a range of things. Just saying it's a duty light isn't going to get you very far.

I mean I get it. It's US made inside out. There's this unsaid sentimental value in it. But things like this makes you wonder, is surefire nowadays still true to their value, or are they really ripping off their loyal customers? Someone bought this thing for $455.




Dave D said:


> I think that you are confusing a 'Duty Light' with an 'EDC light', why would you want 'lockout' or 'Moonlight' on a Duty Light?
> 
> I fully understand their desirability in an EDC Light.
> 
> ...


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## Dave D (May 1, 2018)

ktsl said:


> And not only the lockout, this light is missing a range of things.



We agree that the price was ridiculous, it should have been similar to the Streamlight Stinger HL DS, which is probably it's main competitor.

However I carried Surefire's for 20 years of my 30 service as an LEO and the R1 ticks all the boxes from an LEO use point of view.

So I still don't understand your 'Poorly designed' or 'missing a range of things' statements.


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## ktsl (May 1, 2018)

I think we've both stated our opinions, and it's pointless to argue. Let me summarize it:

1. We agree this light is designed solely as a "duty light", because it would be missing a lot of things for other purposes.

2. If one were to buy this light as a "duty light", there are a couple of things you might need to watch out for:
a. The battery is proprietary.
b. It uses a pin charging port which may be obsolete compared to micro-usb, or future usb-c.
c. It uses twisty operation. For some it's hard to operate one-handed.
d. It has a "half lockout", you can untwist the tail cap to lock out the tail button, but the head switch is _still_ functional
e. You have to _manually_ unplug it after the charging is done. Or it will discharge itself.

Your conclusion, "As a duty light it's actually well designed." My opinion: no.

We agree for $455 it's just ridiculous. 
You think for $150 it's reasonable. I don't think so.



Dave D said:


> We agree that the price was ridiculous, it should have been similar to the Streamlight Stinger HL DS, which is probably it's main competitor.
> 
> However I carried Surefire's for 20 years of my 30 service as an LEO and the R1 ticks all the boxes from an LEO use point of view.
> 
> So I still don't understand your 'Poorly designed' or 'missing a range of things' statements.


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## Kestrel (May 1, 2018)

Please keep in mind that it's rarely constructive to put words in others' mouths so to speak; so in the interest of this not derailing any further, please be so kind as to consider that aspect. Thank you & best regards,


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## Dave D (May 2, 2018)

Duty lights usually have to double up as a tactical light, so a momentary switch is seen as a plus.

It wouldn't be right to remove momentary switches from Duty/Tactical lights because some users struggle to use a twisty switch single handed.

If an Officer doesn't want to use the momentary function then it can be turned on by the head switch without having to twist the tail cap.


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## dano (May 6, 2018)

I find it peculiar that there's so many arguments to the R1, but most in this thread revolve around: 

Charge port design...No one as taken into account weather resistance, or simplicity. A converted computer spec cord is not needed for simple charging.

Is it a true "duty" light? However that may be defined; under my definitions (tac light vs. duty light), it's more of a hybrid. 

Discharging after charge: Never experienced that, and mine is a very early model. Maybe an issue later on in production?

Output...There is no need for these lumen monster lights in day to day "duty" usage. I'd rather have less output, longer runtime, and a light that won't become too hot to the touch. 300-500 Lu is ideal, 750 is pushing the limits of usage. 1000 is too much. 

Proprietary battery...This is a BIG negative. I haven't taken one apart, but it does not seem as easy to modify as a Streamlight Strion proprietary cell (at least that style is also used by Nite Eyeze in the T4). Sure, the R1 comes with a CR123 cradle, but that defeats the purpose. 

Multiple modes...ugh...single output, only. I've experimented and used strobes on duty, but there are very few lights that have a Hi-Strobe option. Most have a hi-strobe-lo option, which is useless.


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## Covertghost (Oct 18, 2021)

Any Idea where to get a replacement 18650 or if it will just take the standard Surefire Branded 18650s


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## LRJ88 (Oct 19, 2021)

Covertghost said:


> Any Idea where to get a replacement 18650 or if it will just take the standard Surefire Branded 18650s


I thought the Lawman used their proprietary battery carrier in the light? If you have the original carrier you could potentially open it up very gently to have a look inside, chances are it's just a regular 18650 in it and not some other size. If it is an 18650 and it isn't spot welded into place then something like a regular Samsung 30q (from a reputable dealer) should be able to go in there without too many issues.


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## dano (Oct 22, 2021)

It's an 18650, but soldered and engineered into that proprietary carrier. I've tried swapping a cell, but the amount of retrofitting made it not a fun task, and didnt really work out well.


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## Dave D (Oct 22, 2021)

Covertghost said:


> Any Idea where to get a replacement 18650 or if it will just take the standard Surefire Branded 18650s


 Contact SF customer services, they are able to supply the replacement battery for the R1.


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## Olumin (Oct 22, 2021)

Proprietary battery trouble strikes again! I love the way the R1 looks but from a design perspective I would consider it a faliure. For a light of its size, having it powered by only a single 18650 is a questionable design choice to beginn with.


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## dano (Oct 22, 2021)

Olumin said:


> Proprietary battery trouble strikes again! I love the way the R1 looks but from a design perspective I would consider it a faliure. For a light of its size, having it powered by only a single 18650 is a questionable design choice to beginn with.


The light came with a cradle for two 123's. Wouldnt be too hard to mod it to accept a common 18650. You'd lose the in-body charging, but it may be an option if a rechargeable 18650 is preferred, or the proprietary cell is no longer produced (and I dont think it is, though SF may still have some).


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## Olumin (Oct 22, 2021)

dano said:


> The light came with a cradle for two 123's. Wouldnt be too hard to mod it to accept a common 18650. You'd lose the in-body charging, but it may be an option if a rechargeable 18650 is preferred, or the proprietary cell is no longer produced (and I dont think it is, though SF may still have some).


My point was more about the wasted space due to the carrier. Malkoff hound dog is about the same length with MD4 and takes 2x18650, meanwhile R1 only takes 1. You dont need a proprietary battery for integrated charging. Its just bad design/wasted potential. With 2x 18650 the light might have actually been able to hold its 750lm. As-is the regulation curve on it is pretty terrible, running below 70% after only a few minutes.


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## desert.snake (Oct 23, 2021)

The idea itself is very good. Beam shape is great too. Unfortunately, SF didn't think of what Olight did. This 18650 in its own SF case was designed to operate simultaneously an electronic switch in the head, which needs a permanent connection, and a mechanical switch in the tail. If the SF used Olight batteries with a "-" ring in the head, this would greatly reduce the length and costs, and with a regular 18650 or 2 * 123 one could always use the maximum mode. I didn't like the R1 because in order to use the tail switch with one hand after using the head switch, I had to make an extra movement to intercept the flashlight - it's too long. But in general, it is very reliable. It makes no sense to compare it with modern flashlights in performance, it is too old.

I wrote a couple of letters to the SF about the modernization of the control system. They use a magnetic ring so that each position corresponds to one brightness mode or some kind of blinking mode. If each position of the ring is assigned not 1 level, but 1 work program and combined with the Lawman reflector (he has a very useful beam) and the IB system, add 21700 and a click button, then this will be ideal, unless, of course, add the correct brightness control system.

That is, imagine that there is a magnetic ring with 5 positions, just a thought example:
1 position - high only (stepdown to 60% in 10 sec)
2 position - IB / High (like Fury 1500 IB)
3 position - 0.5%, 10%, 60%, double click from any mode - 100%, no memory, start from low
4 position - High , Strobe on triple press
5 position - Strobe, SOS, slow Strobe, Beakon, etc,,, with memory last regime

SF never answered me, although the letters reached them. They are unlikely to create something like this, since it will kill the demand for the rest of their products, or not, since it will be too expensive for ordinary people))


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## Olumin (Oct 23, 2021)

desert.snake said:


> The idea itself is very good. Beam shape is great too. Unfortunately, SF didn't think of what Olight did. This 18650 in its own SF case was designed to operate simultaneously an electronic switch in the head, which needs a permanent connection, and a mechanical switch in the tail. If the SF used Olight batteries with a "-" ring in the head, this would greatly reduce the length and costs, and with a regular 18650 or 2 * 123 one could always use the maximum mode. I didn't like the R1 because in order to use the tail switch with one hand after using the head switch, I had to make an extra movement to intercept the flashlight - it's too long. But in general, it is very reliable. It makes no sense to compare it with modern flashlights in performance, it is too old.
> 
> I wrote a couple of letters to the SF about the modernization of the control system. They use a magnetic ring so that each position corresponds to one brightness mode or some kind of blinking mode. If each position of the ring is assigned not 1 level, but 1 work program and combined with the Lawman reflector (he has a very useful beam) and the IB system, add 21700 and a click button, then this will be ideal, unless, of course, add the correct brightness control system.
> 
> ...


Light with 2x ordinary 21700, 1000lm Hi flat regulated (80-100lm low), momentary mechanical side switch, twist head past detent counter clockwise for strobe. Rotate tailcap so select between Hi only, Low only. Hi/low (like fury). Cradle charging. Thats what Id like to see.


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## desert.snake (Oct 23, 2021)

Several ways, this is good, maybe someone will do both, someday, but it is unlikely it will be SF.


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## Robin24k (Nov 10, 2021)

dano said:


> The light came with a cradle for two 123's. Wouldnt be too hard to mod it to accept a common 18650. You'd lose the in-body charging, but it may be an option if a rechargeable 18650 is preferred, or the proprietary cell is no longer produced (and I dont think it is, though SF may still have some).


SureFire is still making R1 batteries, the item number is 24132 or R1BATTERY-R. It is now 3450mAh, up from 2900mAh, but you can only order it from customer service.


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