# Can you hotwire a Battle Lantern?



## donn_ (Mar 7, 2009)

I've had this for months, and just stuck a pair of 6V lantern batteries in, and it works...sorta.













The bulb is a Philips 4509, 13V 100W PAR36 Aircraft Landing Spot Light. It has an axial filament, approximately 1/4" long, sitting almost all the way out to the clear lens, in a 4.5" diameter smooth reflector.

It projects a vertical image of the filament, in a dull yellow. It's pretty obviously being under-driven. From the way the cells go in, and the arrangement of their contacts, it seems to be in powered in series, but I'm not positive about that.

Is it possible to get more poop out of this thing by substituting a lower voltage, higher wattage bulb?

Or, should I look at having it completely re-wired inside to make more modern use of the battery space and light engine?

Ideas? I'm thinking incan here. I know I could send it to LedZep and have the window filled with LEDs with a pot knob replacing the toggle switch, but I have another lantern which may have that fate.

I'm looking for more flood, and more light overall. I'll consider bulb replacements and alternative power sources, like a couple of big LiFePO4 packs to replace the 6V lantern alkies.


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## Ken_McE (Mar 7, 2009)

lovecpf


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## DonShock (Mar 7, 2009)

Here's a ready made LED conversion kit:

http://www.navylanterns.com/LED%20assemblies.htm


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## RyanA (Mar 7, 2009)

There seems to be enough room for just about anything. The 6v are about the size of 8D batteries?


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## Burgess (Mar 7, 2009)

to DonShock --


*Thank you* for that Very Interesting link !


Everybody oughta' read the right-hand side.


:goodjob:

_


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## Benson (Mar 7, 2009)

Well, found a 12V 100W bulb with an 8 degree beam, should be a bit brighter and whiter; there's just loads of PAR36 in 12V 36 or 50W (although they mainly have textured lenses -- that may be good, or may give you even more flood than you want), but not much high-power.

Keeping it at 13V, that 100W lamp seems as good as it gets, so I'd guess you'll have to upgrade to a higher voltage battery pack -- 4-5 LiFePO4 cells sounds reasonable, or 4 LiCo/LiMn cells. Obviously, this might be better done as 4s2p or 5s2p, since F-size and larger get harder to find. But I see batteryspace has some 42120 LiFePO4, so _maybe_ 5 of those could be squeezed in.

OTOH, there's also some dandy 28V bulbs (again, they mostly have textured lenses, for better or worse), in 100W and 150W. If you're redoing the battery pack anyway, you could shoot for 30V with the 150W bulb. 8 LiCo D/F (32600/32900) in series sounds right; you could even gut two lantern batteries and replace the cells inside with Li-ions for a totally drop-in solution.

But really, it looks like it's asking for an HID conversion -- use half the space for a battery, and half for a ballast. :devil:

*RyanA:* I'm pretty sure 6V batteries have 4 F cells inside -- each F cell is basically 1.5D. (Another option for reconstructing them, besides the 4x D/F Li-ion I mentioned above, would be 12x 1/2D NiMH; although that would be slightly taller, it should still fit in the light.)


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## RyanA (Mar 8, 2009)

There'd be a lot of capacity, even at 10amp loads!


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## DonShock (Mar 8, 2009)

Burgess said:


> to DonShock --*Thank you* for that Very Interesting link !.......


You're welcome. I ran across it a couple months ago when I was looking to buy a battle lantern for nostalgia's sake. I never did find one at a good price. They were always pretty dim even though they were tested regularly. The LEDs weren't available when I was still inthe Navy, but I imagine they've done wonders for both the runtime and the reliability.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 8, 2009)

DonShock said:


> You're welcome. I ran across it a couple months ago when I was looking to buy a battle lantern for nostalgia's sake. I never did find one at a good price. They were always pretty dim even though they were tested regularly. The LEDs weren't available when I was still inthe Navy, but I imagine they've done wonders for both the runtime and the reliability.



That was very interesting to read. Thanks again. Here were some relevant points. For some reason I thought these were all WW-II vintage era lights. Click on the Attack on the USS Cole link also. I have two of these lights that I've been wondering about doing something with also.


T*he Office of Naval Research, Technology Solutions Program, initiated the development of the LED Battle Lantern in response to the attack on the USS Cole in October 2000 that resulted in the loss of 17 sailors’ lives.*​*



The #1 finding of the investigation into the deaths and injuries aboard the USS Cole was that survivability during and following the attack was compromised due to lack of light;

*​*



There were NO rechargeable Battle Lanterns;

*​*



The critique showed that the standard Navy NON-rechargeable Battle Lanterns were NOT reliable due to the diminished capacity of disposable batteries, and; 

*​*



The lamp filaments either broke or malfunctioned during battle.*
​They even have a civilian "Gorilla Light" model that is shown here.


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## lctorana (Mar 8, 2009)

Answers here, in posts #16, #18 and #19.


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## Oznog (Mar 8, 2009)

If it's really old that may be a pre-halogen bulb, which are less efficient than the halogens. Also... wow, 100W from 2x 6v lantern batts? That's like 8A out of alkalines. It sounds kinda questionable if they will be able to hold up the full output voltage at that current once they get below full charge.

There's also HID. HID is more lumens/W than LED. It doesn't turn on right away on demand, it has to cycle on, and probably shouldn't be turned on and off a lot either. Also the tube itself is way blinding and would probably need something to shield that from direct view.


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## donn_ (Mar 8, 2009)

Fascinating replies!

If anyone is interested in a new copy of this light, here's a link:

http://www.calcarcover.com/product.aspx?id=1047&cid=108

The same company sells it on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-U.S.-Navy-S...ern-Light_W0QQitemZ380089563648QQcmdZViewItem

It appears the light is wired with the cells in parallel, because it also functions on a single 6V cell. I guess that explains why it appears so under-driven.

According to the Ebay description, this is the stocked lamp:



> Sealed incandescent, Par-36, screw terminal. Industry Number 4546. 4.8 Volts, 6,300 beam candlepower, hours of life 100 hours



My first goal will be to find replacements for the missing bulkhead mounting system. I want to mount the light on the cockpit bulkhead of my boat (30' wooden sedan cruiser).

Ideally, the lantern batteries will be replaced with a rechargeable option, which will be kept charged by the boat's house system.

The appropriate beam profile will be a bright flood, so maybe I'll look into the textured lens PAR36 bulbs out there.

Thanks!


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## donn_ (Mar 8, 2009)

:thumbsup: I just wired the lamp to a 13.6V stick (4x 26650 A123s) and it woke up! Bright white spot with lots of heat.


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## mdocod (Mar 8, 2009)

donn_ said:


> :thumbsup: I just wired the lamp to a 13.6V stick (4x 26650 A123s) and it woke up! Bright white spot with lots of heat.



THERE YOU GO!

I don't think 100W would come out of a pair of alkaline lantern 6V batteries regardless of what you wired em up to....

------

I am going make some assumptions here:

The bulb you found in there doesn't belong in there. It's probably supposed to come with a bulb such as this or maybe this.

I did some reading around, and it sounds like the batteries in those units are wired in parallel. According to one place online they advertise it as being able to run on 1 or 2 lantern batteries, which pretty much means it's wired parallel...

------

As you found, more powerful batteries are going to be required if you want to use the landing light, careful you don't melt the thing though. A pair of 6V SLA batteries in there re-wired up for series, or a pair of 12V SLAs would also work with the stock wiring configuration. That would be the cheapest power option. Do double check that wiring though before taking my word on it if you decide to try that...

You could go even brighter with a 4596, but have to come up with ~28V somehow. 

Eric


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## Cigarman (Mar 8, 2009)

Found a unique solution to different lamp types:

http://www.duckworksav.com/Upgrades.html

looks like HID wouldnt be so bad, just the cost. OR the replaceable H3 mount type lens/reflector assembly. Neat eh? 

As to the A123 option mentioned, where would one procure these cells?


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## donn_ (Mar 8, 2009)

28V would be a piece of cake. I just stacked up 10x 26650s in one side of this thing.

I think, however, for this application, I'd only want a lot of battery for runtime. The housing is tough, but it's plastic, and I'm afraid a high-output lamp would yield a Dali Light.

Cigarman...I got some of mine from other CPFers and some which I harvested from cordless tool battery packs.

You can also buy them here:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=1273

They aren't the A123 Systems brand, but are essentially the same chemistry.


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## donn_ (Mar 8, 2009)

Cigarman said:


> OR the replaceable H3 mount type lens/reflector assembly. Neat eh?



Very neat! That looks like it could be made to work with a KIU socket and an appropriate bi-pin bulb.

Hmmm...


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## petrev (Mar 8, 2009)

Hi donn_

You could run a 250W Par36 sealed beam using 10xA123 and they don't get very hot 

250W GE4596 28V Sealed Beam unit (ala *Vol'K'ano Sleeper* by JetskiMark)
Mounted in a Ray-O-Vac vintage lantern head + 287-Switch.





but for more runtime you should look at those replacement mirror-lens kits in cigarmans link and a cheapo e-bay auto ballast 35 or 55W 4300K

COOL

Cheers
Pete


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## donn_ (Mar 8, 2009)

Hi Pete...

The batteries don't get hot, or the lamp doesn't? This 100W got hot in short order at just under the spec 13V.

Are you talking about 25 or 55W HID? Is it practical in a flood application, and a marine environment?


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## donn_ (Mar 8, 2009)

Not incan, but this might do the trick. 6V par36 41xLED drop-in:

http://www.ledtronics.com/products/ProductsDetails.aspx?WP=C393K349


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## petrev (Mar 8, 2009)

donn_ said:


> Not incan, but this might do the trick. 6V par36 41xLED drop-in:
> 
> http://www.ledtronics.com/products/ProductsDetails.aspx?WP=C393K349


 

Hi donn_ 

The 6V led drop-ins are only 108 total lumens - so . . . ?

Ignore what I just said ! Actually just checked it again and the 250W GE4596 28V lamp does get pretty hot so cancel that idea - Sorry.

HID 35W ballast should not run too hot and as long as the mirror unit seals then it should be OK. How long will the lamp be run for ? 

Trouble is without actually doing the first conversion then unknowns are just that ! How much heat build up there will be in a sealed plastic enclosure is somewhat problematic. My POB is pretty much a sealed plastic box and it works just fine - a 55W might not be any problem either but I have not tested it - There have been 55W conversions of the POB and I have not heard of any overheating problems. 

Good luck :devil:

Pete


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## donn_ (Mar 8, 2009)

The plastic one could be run for as much as a couple of hours at a time (night fishing).

The one on the right will be reserved for high heat applications, 







although I've been thinking about having LedZep do his multi-LED thing with it. It's got a body of 1/4" thick cast aluminum, and almost as much battery space, along with a 4.75" window.


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## PhillyRube (Mar 8, 2009)

The original yellow battle lanterns used 6 volt sealed beam bulbs, as the two spring top batteries were inserted and worked in parallel. Fortunately in my 20 year career, I never had to use one in a "battle", but one time we were practicing damage control in the "USS Buttercup", the wet simulator in Norfolk, VA. Flooding into the space, and no lights...dropped a lantern and out it went.......


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## donn_ (Mar 8, 2009)

I wonder if the flaw was in the bulkhead mount. Mine doesn't have one, just two holes in the back of the case to accept it, but the spec doesn't call for a gasket there. Three gaskets are specified; at the switch, the front cover and at the lamp holder. If there was no gasket at the bulkhead mount, it would definitely pass water.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 8, 2009)

Donn, the mounting bracket that comes with these is a pretty simple design...also of the 1/8" steel like the one on back. One of them I got on EBay came with it. Note how it is slanted which allows the anchor to slide and grip.


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## donn_ (Mar 9, 2009)

Thanks for the pics, Lux. They'll be a big help in case I can't find the parts, and have to fab them.

Interesting the screws holding the clip to the light are Phillips head, while all the other fasteners on the light are slotted. Are they gasketed inside the back?


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## Cigarman (Mar 9, 2009)

Welp, scored one off the ebay link this weekend. Now for fun and experimentation! I do think the HID option sounds wicked cool especially with that drop in reflector thingy. And to think I didnt have any use for my left over 6000K lamps....


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## donn_ (Mar 9, 2009)

Cool! :twothumbs

I ordered the flood version of the reflector/lens enclosure yesterday. I'm looking forward to playing with it.


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## LuxLuthor (Mar 9, 2009)

donn_ said:


> Thanks for the pics, Lux. They'll be a big help in case I can't find the parts, and have to fab them.
> 
> Interesting the screws holding the clip to the light are Phillips head, while all the other fasteners on the light are slotted. Are they gasketed inside the back?



Mine both have a hex head bolt going through back from inside (not phillips). No gasket, although there should be.


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## donn_ (Mar 11, 2009)

The first phase is complete, and I'd be very happy if the rest goes as easily. The reflector/lens drop-in from Duckworks arrived today, and is indeed a drop-in:






The lens is heavy duty, and as you can see, very textured for flood. The reflector is very heavy metal on the outside, and appears to be polished well, from what little I can see.






The bulb aperture is a bit over 1/2", just slightly smaller in diameter than a KIU pedestal, but plenty big for a good sized bulb.






Now all I have to do is figure out how to mount the bulb, how to wire it all and what to do about the battery arrangement.


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## donn_ (Mar 12, 2009)

I just tested this reflector/lens combination by sitting it down over a KIU pedestal. I tried a few bulbs and cell combinations.

1111 on two A123s...not bad

1164 on three A123s...better

623 on 4 A123s (12.6 vbatt)...wicked bright! And that voltage barely woke the 623 up.


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## Benson (Mar 12, 2009)

donn_ said:


> I just tested this reflector/lens combination by sitting it down over a KIU pedestal. I tried a few bulbs and cell combinations.
> 
> 1111 on two A123s...not bad
> 
> ...



Beamshots! Do we _have_ to wait till you put it together?

Oh, and the 100W 13V that was in it when you got it -- it shouldn't be bad (if more throwy than you're looking for ) off 4 A123s, either. Since the 123s should only fill half the battery compartment, you could use the other side to store the unused lamp (ala Maglite), and have swappable flood and throw.


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## Chrontius (Mar 14, 2009)

Does anybody know how the 35 watt HID mod would work? Too hot for the lantern host?

What kind of batteries? Sealed lead-acid, NiMH packs, bignormous Li-ion? Or would two lantern batteries drive that beast?


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## Cigarman (Mar 14, 2009)

I think if one substituted out the 6v lumps and stuck in a couple similar SLA 12v jobs it might be doable if the size can be worked out. I got one coming this monday. Hope I can squeeze all the goodies in there since Im :toilet: with designing battery packs.


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## Chrontius (Mar 15, 2009)

I'm thinking about buying four F-size Ni-MH cells and rebuilding some lantern packs for this. We'll see if that works


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## TransAmFreak77 (Mar 9, 2010)

I have a question. Even if battle lanterns have a power cord do they still require batteries in them? Also what is the wiring configuration for the battle lantern and batteries if needed.


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## RAGE CAGE (Mar 19, 2010)

yes- I think you can.


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## donn_ (Mar 19, 2010)

It's in process, and waiting for one of Alan's regulated switches.

It'll be carrying ~16x A123 26650's and driving a 623 through a flood lens.


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## bnemmie (Apr 13, 2010)

Just got mine off ebay. Plan on doing navylantern.com upgrade do it. Anyone done one before? Thoughts about it?


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## alpg88 (Aug 14, 2011)

finished mine few days ago, 35w hid, 12x nimh sub c 4200mah, ran it from full charge to off, about 1hr 30min, on new cells, draws 2,4A, will pbly gain few min as i brake them in, after it shut off i opened it, no heat damage, i guess it is hot, but not too hot, all parts attached with silicone.


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## alpg88 (Aug 14, 2011)

TransAmFreak77 said:


> I have a question. Even if battle lanterns have a power cord do they still require batteries in them?
> Also what is the wiring configuration for the battle lantern and batteries if needed.


 
2x 6v lantern batteries wired in paralell.
i would imagine you don't need batteries if you have a cord\ external power supply.

there are 2 types, with primary cells and rechargable, rechargable version has wire and cells, it is charging basicly all the time, as power fails, light comes on. in this case batteries and wires both are present.


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## jaundice (Aug 14, 2011)

I just picked up a WW II version that uses a bayonet base bulb and two number 6 dry cells. These cells are unobtanium, along with the bulbs, so I'm looking at fitting in a higher voltage bulb and some li-ion cells. The lens is plastic, but the reflector is metal, so a moderate improvement is possible.

-John


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 15, 2011)

alpg88 said:


> finished mine few days ago, 35w hid, 12x nimh sub c 4200mah, ran it from full charge to off, about 1hr 30min, on new cells, draws 2,4A, will pbly gain few min as i brake them in, after it shut off i opened it, no heat damage, i guess it is hot, but not too hot, all parts attached with silicone.



Hey, nice job there!


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## bouncer (Aug 29, 2011)

could the bayonet base be replace with a maglite type socket. Make a ROP Battle lantern, maybe? 



jaundice said:


> I just picked up a WW II version that uses a bayonet base bulb and two number 6 dry cells. These cells are unobtanium, along with the bulbs, so I'm looking at fitting in a higher voltage bulb and some li-ion cells. The lens is plastic, but the reflector is metal, so a moderate improvement is possible.
> 
> -John


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## jaundice (Aug 30, 2011)

bouncer said:


> could the bayonet base be replace with a maglite type socket. Make a ROP Battle lantern, maybe?



Bouncer;

It's possible, but not really feasible. The bayonet base socket is larger than a PR socket, so an adapter could be fabricated. It's not feasible because there is a large variety of bayonet socket bulbs, many of which match or exceed the performance of the ROP bulb. I ordered a bunch of bulbs, but I kept them around 10w because i didn't want to melt the plastic lens. But much hotter bulbs are out there, if I wanted to replace the lens with a flat piece of borofloat glass.

-John


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## alpg88 (Sep 22, 2011)

bad news, all batteries died, idk why, i can only suspect, 8 cells had 0 volts all together, 4 more had 2v, it was working fine week before, i suspect heat killed them, even thou i didn't find any heat damage, like melted, warped tape, cells' wrapper.
when it was all opened parts weren't too hot, guess closed up it cooked the cells
will remove hid module from this housing, will use them separately, someplace else.


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## japudjuha (Dec 2, 2015)

alpg88 said:


> finished mine few days ago, 35w hid, 12x nimh sub c 4200mah, ran it from full charge to off, about 1hr 30min, on new cells, draws 2,4A, will pbly gain few min as i brake them in, after it shut off i opened it, no heat damage, i guess it is hot, but not too hot, all parts attached with silicone.




What model no./part no. did you use? Was it from Duckworks?
Thanks


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## alpg88 (Dec 3, 2015)

model, part no. of what??
h3 par36 adapter i got from online aviation parts store, the rest ebay


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## japudjuha (Dec 3, 2015)

Reflector, hid kit, what lamp type h3, h4 etc, batteries.
Part numbers, which supplier, how much.
I can easily put together my own setup, I am just curious about
how you did yours.


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## alpg88 (Dec 3, 2015)

it was 5 years ago, all i remember now is that i got h3-par36 adapter from auto parts store, it was around 20usd, batteries e bay, about 3usd each, hid kit ebay, about 50usd for pair, bulbs were 6000k iirc.


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