# Best, highest capacity, protected 18650 cells?



## etc (Nov 18, 2008)

I need something with at least 2500 mAh in 18650 cells.

I know Panasonic makes these 2900 mAh cells which would really rock except that they don't appear to be protected.


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## chewy78 (Nov 20, 2008)

ive got wolfeyes 18650's, they seem to be reliable


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## CM (Nov 20, 2008)

etc said:


> ...I know Panasonic makes these 2900 mAh cells which would really rock except that they don't appear to be protected.



Got any links on where you can get these Panasonics?


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## jeffosborne (Nov 20, 2008)

Tenergy makes good batteries:

http://www.batteryjunction.com/2600pcb-18650.html

2600mAh with protection.

Jeff O.


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## linterno (Nov 20, 2008)

Tenergy is well known to over-rate their batteries.


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## etc (Nov 20, 2008)

CM said:


> Got any links on where you can get these Panasonics?



There are a couple of posts/threads about them on the current page of "Batteries"...


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 21, 2008)

etc said:


> There are a couple of posts/threads about them on the current page of "Batteries"...



Pretty much need a group buy to get these at a good price. 100 min order, if I recall.

Bill


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## mdocod (Nov 21, 2008)

Wolf-Eyes, AW, or Pila protected cells are your best options for loose cell flashlight operations. If you are building a pack and are going to provide external protection, then Panisonic, or LG are good solid options. 

Why do you *need* 2500mAH capacity?

Wolf-Eyes just released a 2400mAH rated LRB-168A, I have not seen any independent testing to validate the label capacity at this time. 

AW is supposedly coming out with some 2500mAH rated protected cells in the coming months.

Tenergy 2600mAH cells are not 2600mAH, they don't really perform any better capacity wise than a typical 2200mAH cell from what I recall reading.

I have heard that the TrustFire 2500mAH blue wrapper protected 18650s supposedly perform close to rated capacity, but based on the rather flakey issues with ordering cells from DX/KD, I can't really recommend it but would like to point it out as an option as they might work for your needs...

Eric


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## etc (Nov 22, 2008)

higher capacity --> greater runtime.


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## etc (Nov 26, 2008)

I don't hear much about Pila cells here. I understand they are expensive... they are protected.


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## linterno (Nov 26, 2008)

etc said:


> I don't hear much about Pila cells here. I understand they are expensive... they are protected.


Very expensive. It is AW age now.


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## etc (Nov 28, 2008)

mdocod said:


> Wolf-Eyes just released a 2400mAH rated LRB-168A, I have not seen any independent testing to validate the label capacity at this time.
> 
> AW is supposedly coming out with some 2500mAH rated protected cells in the coming months.



Is the W-E cell protected?

I am waiting for the AW 2500 mAh cell... it would present a large jump from the 18500 cell of 1500 mAh capacity.. I don't think it's worthwhile to upgrade to 2200 mAh cell.


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## yellow (Nov 28, 2008)

with the power we take from the cells, dont calculate with more than 2000-2200 mA to get,
no matter what cell used


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## etc (Nov 28, 2008)

I don't get this, please clarify?


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## Norm (Nov 28, 2008)

etc said:


> Is the W-E cell protected?


Yes


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## chewy78 (Nov 28, 2008)

w-e 18650 cells have a robust pcb but they do have a flat top.


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## yellow (Nov 29, 2008)

etc said:


> I don't get this, please clarify?


most all of these "values" get achieved by a low current taken from the cells.
We with our "high" draw, put much more stress on the cells, the data is not received most any time (considerably not received).

thats why f.e., in Ni-Mh, those lower numbered Eneloops (2100 mAh) instead of the much higher supercells (2700 mAh and such) usually outperform them. 
With 1A and plus draw, the higher rated ones are less stable ...
Same goes for Li-Ion, but the difference is not this big.

Anyways, I would also look for the better ones like cells from AW and such, over very cheap offerings. Even when the latter ones show a higher number.

PS: true, most "protected" cells have flat tops. One can use small magnets then to close the circuit.
AW offers buttoned cells also, iirc


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## GMUGNIER (Apr 16, 2011)

I read that Panasonic now offers 4000 mah 18650 batteries and they are protected by a heat film and a cover/under charge circuit. Can anyone confirm? I am on the Panasonic web site now and I just cant seem to find out where to buy them.


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## GMUGNIER (Apr 16, 2011)

*Three technologies to watch in 2011: silicon anodes, ambient energy harvesting, and very low power wireless* 

If there is a Cinderella in the battery world, it is the lithium ion anode. 

No glamorous metal oxides to develop, nor cunning structures to optimise, just gradual developments in two sorts of carbon. 
< A HREF="http://adserver.adtech.de/adlink|289|101380|1|277|AdId=5996174;BnId=3;itime=976247057;nodecode=yes;link=http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/N4481.electronicsweekly.com/B5176375;sz=336x280;ord=976247057?">< IMG SRC="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/N4481.electronicsweekly.com/B5176375;sz=336x280;ord=976247057?" BORDER=0 WIDTH=336 HEIGHT=280 ALT="Advertisement"></A><a href="http://adserver.adtech.de/?adlink|2.0|289|101380|1|277|;grp=109;loc=300;" target="_blank"><img src="http://adserver.adtech.de/?adserv|2.0|289|101380|1|277|;misc=84619;grp=109;" border="0" width="2" height="2"However, 2011 looks like it might just be the year when the fairy godmother turns up and _anodes go silicon_. 
It has long been known that silicon can absorb nearly 10 times as much lithium as carbon, but this has not been much use because the silicon swells so much that the electrode falls to pieces. 
Oxfordshire-based Nexeon has quietly been working on a Nanostructured form of silicon that can repeatedly cope with plenty of lithium, and can be made in bulk. 
<a href="http://adserver.adtech.de/?adlink|2.0|289|1407324|1|277|;grp=109;loc=300;" target="_blank"><img src="http://adserver.adtech.de/?adserv|2.0|289|1407324|1|277|;misc=84619;grp=109;" border="0" width="2" height="2" /Just before Christmas, Nexeon revealed a prototype silicon anode 18650-size cell that it claimed not only exceeded the capacity of commercial cells (at 3.2Ah with C/3 discharge), but beat them on cycle life as well. 
It predicts 4Ah cells later this year.


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## mrlysle (Apr 17, 2011)

As far as I know, right now, present time, the best available in a protected format would be the AW or Redilast 2900 mah cells.


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## KC_451 (Apr 17, 2011)

mrlysle said:


> As far as I know, right now, present time, the best available in a protected format would be the AW or Redilast 2900 mah cells.


 
Agreed. I've had nothing but excellent results with both.


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## yellow (Apr 17, 2011)

GMUGNIER said:


> It predicts 4Ah cells later this year.


 L 'll take it immediately


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## brunt_sp (Aug 8, 2011)

Here's more about the Nexeon company.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-14418293


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## PapaLumen (Aug 8, 2011)

mrlysle said:


> As far as I know, right now, present time, the best available in a protected format would be the AW or Redilast 2900 mah cells.


 
Redilast now also sell a 3100mah 18650. It uses panasonic cell. I have some of these from a member on here who got some recently.


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## bleagh (Aug 9, 2011)

mdocod said:


> Tenergy 2600mAH cells are not 2600mAH, they don't really perform any better capacity wise than a typical 2200mAH cell from what I recall reading.


 
Not sure where you are getting your info, but according to this test:
http://lygte-info.dk/info/Batteries18650-2011%20UK.html

The Tenergy 2600 protected cell comes as close to it's rating as anything else in the test.
What's more they Tenergy 2600 holds it voltage better at up to 1 amp draw than any other 4.2 volt battery in the test.

This makes the Tenergy 2600 the BEST battery for a led with 3.4 voltage regulation and like 1.2-1.25 amp draw.
The Tenergy 2600 will put out some 2300 mAH before dropping out of regulation, while most of the higher capacity batteries will drop out of regulation at only 2000 mAH of output.


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## SHADE02 (Aug 9, 2011)

I have a few weeks using at my jetbeam 3M xm-l 450LUMNES:devil:

the new panasonic 3100mAh, and is built-in circuit protection and works awesome:thumbsup:,
I got 2hrs 30min in turbo mode:rock:


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## RI Chevy (Aug 9, 2011)

Can anyone explain why Ultrafire makes several different 18650's, and only makes them available to certain distributers? But on their website, they don't even show them. Specifically the 3600mah and 3800mah versions. And why the different wrappers used? Their website only shows 3000mah, 2600mah, and 2400mah in protected versions. Other sites show 3600mah and 3800 mah versions.


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## geisto (Aug 9, 2011)

Got a couple of Callie's Kustoms Protected 3100mah Panasonics. Not sure of the total runtime of the cell in my Malkoff MD2 w/M61 right now but so far it's still going strong after about an hour of constant on.


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## SHADE02 (Aug 9, 2011)

RI Chevy said:


> Can anyone explain why Ultrafire makes several different 18650's


 
TAKE MY ADVICE: STAY AWAY FROM THOSE CELLS


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## archer6817j (Aug 9, 2011)

I vote for the AW 2900 protected cells. It's the only thing I'll put in my lights since I don't even have to think about whether they are "good" or not


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## scottyhazzard (Aug 9, 2011)

Try these
Link Deleted rule #6 - Norm


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## Stephen Wallace (Aug 9, 2011)

RI Chevy said:


> Can anyone explain why Ultrafire makes several different 18650's. Specifically the 3600mah and 3800mah versions.


 
There are currently no commercially available 3600, 3800 or 4000mAh LiCo 18650 cells. Ultrafire have a habit of exaggerating the capacity of their cells to make them more appealing to people who aren't aware of this. While there are genuine 3000mAh 18650 cells available, the Ultrafire 3000mAh cells are also over-rated, and do not achieve the claimed capacity.


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## scottyhazzard (Aug 9, 2011)

scottyhazzard said:


> Try these
> Link Deleted rule #6 - Norm


A little aggressive and heavy handed Norm. I answered the question posed as have others. If the answer is in the wrong "thread, then perhaps the question is in the wrong forum. The question is asked where do I find a product of a particular quality. The answer was given in kind without malice or desire to steal or direct business but help a brother lumen feind. I am no damn shill and I am not advertising. What is your response?


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## Norm (Aug 9, 2011)

scottyhazzard said:


> A little aggressive and heavy handed Norm. I answered the question posed as have others. If the answer is in the wrong "thread, then perhaps the question is in the wrong forum. The question is asked where do I find a product of a particular quality. The answer was given in kind without malice or desire to steal or direct business but help a brother lumen feind. I am no damn shill and I am not advertising. What is your response?


 
I think perhaps it's time you read the rules, Rule #8 would you like some time off to study?


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## Hacken (Aug 24, 2011)

*ARE THE AW BATTERIES THE HIGHEST QUALITY BATTERIES OUT THERE AT THE MOMENT..*

are the AW 18650 2900mAh the best quailty batteries out there right now?.. at 18-21 bucks i want to make sure i am buying the best sh*t that i put my money into..


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## Hacken (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: ARE THE AW BATTERIES THE HIGHEST QUALITY BATTERIES OUT THERE AT THE MOMENT..*

I have not try out any trustfire batteries before but wow..didnt know they have 3000mAh batteries also..


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## samgab (Aug 24, 2011)

Hacken said:


> I have not try out any trustfire batteries before but wow..didnt know they have 3000mAh batteries also..



They don't. They have some that say "3000" mAh on the wrapper is all.


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## Hacken (Aug 24, 2011)

archer6817j said:


> I vote for the AW 2900 protected cells. It's the only thing I'll put in my lights since I don't even have to think about whether they are "good" or not


 
same here.. i wish they would have the 3000mAh though..


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## Hacken (Aug 24, 2011)

which site sells the pila batteries?...


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## Norm (Aug 24, 2011)

Two threads asking for similar information merged -Norm


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## Norm (Aug 24, 2011)

Hacken said:


> which site sells the pila batteries?...


A simple Google search will answer your question - seeing your in the U.S.A the first link in your search should suit you perfectly.
Norm


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## thamster (Aug 24, 2011)

Stephen Wallace said:


> There are currently no commercially available 3600, 3800 or 4000mAh LiCo 18650 cells. Ultrafire have a habit of exaggerating the capacity of their cells to make them more appealing to people who aren't aware of this.



Many of those are fakes (people seem willing to pay for 'too good to be true' products), especially the ones on eBay. The ones I got are re-wrapped old laptop cells, with misspelled label. Not one tested higher than 2000mAh (two were 900mAh).


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## Stephen Wallace (Aug 24, 2011)

My point exactly. You know you aren't getting a 3600 or 4000mAh cell, as they just don't exist at this time - certainly not as far as commercially available cells are concerned at any rate. So if you aren't getting what the cells say they are, potentially you could end up with anything. :shrug:


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## pabcor (Aug 24, 2011)

Then, the only ones are AW 2900, Redilast and Callie's with Panasonic 3100. Or not? 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/img0936sd.jpg/


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## SHADE02 (Aug 26, 2011)

I prefer the callie's with panasonic 3100mAh(with this i got 2hrs 40mins in turbo in my jetbeam 3m xml 450ansi lumens)
then the redilast ,then the AW

but the any of this is your best way to go


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## RI Chevy (Aug 27, 2011)

thamster said:


> Many of those are fakes (people seem willing to pay for 'too good to be true' products), especially the ones on eBay. The ones I got are re-wrapped old laptop cells, with misspelled label. Not one tested higher than 2000mAh (two were 900mAh).


 


Stephen Wallace said:


> My point exactly. You know you aren't getting a 3600 or 4000mAh cell, as they just don't exist at this time - certainly not as far as commercially available cells are concerned at any rate. So if you aren't getting what the cells say they are, potentially you could end up with anything. :shrug:


 
Some companies just exploit people new to the flashlight world, who are just trying to buy products. I don't understand why they are able to advertise 3600 or 4000 mAH, when they are not even remotely close. In any event, it seems like members new to the flashlight world always get taken advantage of, until they come to their senses, like me, and then settle in for the better quality batteries and lights. It is just not right. 

On the flip side, although Ultrafire advertises higher (3600 - 4000) mAH figures for their batteries, at least they seem to hold a constant 2450 mAH, and seems to be a decent battery. At least mine are. I had already made the purchase when I came across this thread.


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## Stephen Wallace (Aug 27, 2011)

With the Ultrafires, it's pretty much a lottery as far as I'm concerned. 

I can't really comment on the 3600 and 4000mAh cells, as I haven't tried them - once bitten, twice shy. I gave the 3000mAh cells a try - perhaps not expecting 3000mAh, but hoping that the higher capacity figures might at least mean that the cells had a higher capacity than other Ultrafire cells. A self consistent rate of capacity measurement, if not an accurate one. As it transpired, one of these cells has a capacity of 1255mAh, and the other 1605mAh.

In light of that, the only Ultrafire cells that I have purchased since have been the 25500 cells, if only due to the lack of choice of other brands. If AW still marketed his 25500, I'd steer clear of Ultrafire altogether.


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## Be-Seen Triker (Aug 27, 2011)

I have been using the much hated BRC3000 UF 18650 cells and only recently learned what they were really doing once one of them died.

I want to call them "soft cells" due to their high internal resistance. What was happening that in my applcation (bike flashers with Q5 emitters) is that the cell would drop to 3.4-3.5V very quickly and therefore only put out maybe 400-500ma when the lights are perfectly capable of sucking up 1 amp. It seemed strange that they recharging rather quickly. I was getting "excellent" runtimes - D'uh!

I took the one dead cell apart and found a plain white wrapper, non-insulated positive protection lead, and the remnents of a previous tab weld on the negative end. These were either used or refurbished cells. Even the potection circuit had one fo the 2 IC's removed for salvage. This too was evident with the solder on the pads, so even for high current applications these would be suspect.

When it comes to batteries, buy by reputation. Since my life depends on my lights working (with redundancy), I feel I've been really stupid trusting these budget cells. Now, as in my 4wd RC racing days, I will only trust Panasonic and Sanyo with or without protection circuits.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 29, 2011)

Stephen Wallace said:


> With the Ultrafires, it's pretty much a lottery as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> I can't really comment on the 3600 and 4000mAh cells, as I haven't tried them - once bitten, twice shy. I gave the 3000mAh cells a try - perhaps not expecting 3000mAh, but hoping that the higher capacity figures might at least mean that the cells had a higher capacity than other Ultrafire cells. A self consistent rate of capacity measurement, if not an accurate one. As it transpired, one of these cells has a capacity of 1255mAh, and the other 1605mAh.


 
The Ultrafires are a complete rip-off - for less money you can buy the Trustfire 2400mAh cells, which sounds pretty unexciting, but they actually have somewhere near 2400mAh which is more than the UF 3000, UF 3600 & UF 4000 cells have. The Ultrafire cells cost more, but they don't have the capacity that would justify that extra price - so paying more and not getting what is claimed is a foolish waste of money.
Either go with cheap but OK cells like the TF 2400 or pay extra and get cells that are actually worth more like the AW or Redilast 2900 cells. Paying an in-between price and getting something that performs worse than the cheaper priced ones just doesn't make sense.


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## march.brown (Aug 29, 2011)

SHADE02 said:


> TAKE MY ADVICE: STAY AWAY FROM THOSE CELLS


Those Ultrafires are the only cells that I have ever bought ... They have performed faultlessly ... Most are the grey/silver protected ones but I have a couple of unprotected (blue) ... No problems yet ... I only have one protected spare and two unprotected , so they do all get used (rotated).

I guestimate when they should be below 3.8V and then do a "tactical reload" with one of my ready-charged spares ... As with any torch , I also carry spare torches ... My spare 18650s are kept fully charged in my desk drawer ... When the 18650s eventually die , I will buy more ... With Ultrafire , the price is right.

All my 18650 torches are single cell torches ... Out of all my other torches , the only multicell torches are one Solarforce L2r (2 AA) plus a Fusion Showerhead 2D Maglite (6 AA) ... All my single cell AAA and AA torches use Eneloops now.

I am perfectly happy using Ultrafire 18650 batteries.
.


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## samgab (Aug 29, 2011)

RI Chevy said:


> Can anyone explain why Ultrafire makes several different 18650's, and only makes them available to certain distributers? But on their website, they don't even show them. Specifically the 3600mah and 3800mah versions. And why the different wrappers used? Their website only shows 3000mah, 2600mah, and 2400mah in protected versions. Other sites show 3600mah and 3800 mah versions.


 


SHADE02 said:


> TAKE MY ADVICE: STAY AWAY FROM THOSE CELLS


 


march.brown said:


> Those Ultrafires are the only cells that I have ever bought ... They have performed faultlessly ... Most are the grey/silver protected ones but I have a couple of unprotected (blue) ... No problems yet ... I only have one protected spare and two unprotected , so they do all get used (rotated).
> 
> I guestimate when they should be below 3.8V and then do a "tactical reload" with one of my ready-charged spares ... As with any torch , I also carry spare torches ... My spare 18650s are kept fully charged in my desk drawer ... When the 18650s eventually die , I will buy more ... With Ultrafire , the price is right.
> 
> ...


 
In the context of the full quote that SHADE02 was replying to, it appears he was saying to stay away from the really high claim "Ultrafire" cells that aren't shown on their own website. "Specifically the 3600 and 3800 versions". I agree with him that these ones should be kept clear of, because they're probably fake "Ultrafires".


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## degarb (Aug 29, 2011)

Any holder for projects? Or rig one up from elastic?


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## samgab (Aug 29, 2011)

degarb said:


> Any holder for projects? Or rig one up from elastic?


 
I find rare earth magnets work well.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 29, 2011)

samgab said:


> "Specifically the 3600 and 3800 versions". I agree with him that these ones should be kept clear of, because they're probably fake "Ultrafires".


 
Since there are no 18650 cells of any brand available to the public with 3600, 3800 or 4000mAh we can know with 100% certainty that these cells are definitely fakes. Since they cost more than cells that claim to have 2400mAh (and actually do) and since tests on these 3600mAh and up cells show them to have no more capacity than the 2400mAh cells then they are just a waste of money.

As far as the more reasonably claimed capacity Ultrafire cells go - it depends on what there actual capacity is and how much they cost. The fact is that I can order a pair of Trustfire protected 2400mAh cells at $9.99 and they are decent enough cells at a decent price. To buy something else only makes sense if they are either better or cheaper or both - paying more for worse cells definitely does NOT make sense.

In this set of tests: http://lygte-info.dk/info/Batteries18650-2011 UK.html the Ultrafire 3600mAh cells and the Trustfire 2400mAh cells each put out 2450mAh but the Trustfire cells actually perform better on the graphs. At DX the standard price for the Trustfire cells is $9.99 for a pair and the standard price for the Ultrafire 3600 cells is $13.50 for a pair. The UF cells cost 35% more, but perform worse and hold no more power - why would a well informed buyer choose them?



march.brown said:


> Those Ultrafires are the only cells that I have ever bought ... They have performed faultlessly ... Most are the grey/silver protected ones but I have a couple of unprotected (blue) ... No problems yet ... I only have one protected spare and two unprotected , so they do all get used (rotated).


 
What is their price & what is their performance? Are you getting good value? As far as I have been able to work out the most highly regarded cells on DX are the Trustfire 2400mAh protected cells with the black/red flames label - I use them as my benchmark for cheaper priced cells. The Trustfire cells claim 2400mAh and test at 2450mAh, unfortunately it is rare for cells to provide more than they claim with a very high number of cells providing substantially LESS than what they claim.

So many people will look at the price and the claimed capacity and make their decision based on what seems like the best value based on what is claimed. Because the claims are often a complete lie there are a lot of people being ripped off.


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## moderator007 (Aug 29, 2011)

Kiwimark that is a very good explanation of price to performance of cells to get the best bang for the buck. I have always stuck with the trustfire flame 2400mah for cheap cells. I purchased the first cells after seeing some of the good reviews here and other places. Its always good to research a particular cell before purchasing. Just for instance. DX has listed a new arrival today. Trustfire 3600mah protected 18650 for 6.50 a pair. Then down below in the description it states, actual capacity 1300mah. This looks like the same cell you referenced to kiwimark. Looks like they relisted it as new with the true capacity. $3.25 for 1300mah. The flame trustfires are $4.95 for 2400mah. Almost double the capacity for $1.70 more per cell. As for qualty cells i think the CK 3100mah cell falls in the good bang for the buck category.


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## RI Chevy (Aug 29, 2011)

What about the Callie's and Redilast 3100's? How have these been working out for those who have them? The AW 3100 should be out soon. 

I think the Callie's use the newer battery technology.


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## Be-Seen Triker (Aug 29, 2011)

I have 3 of the CK 3100's. They perform as expected. Know that they are on the large side. I removed the label to have them fit some of my lights better.


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## march.brown (Aug 30, 2011)

KiwiMark said:


> What is their price & what is their performance? Are you getting good value? As far as I have been able to work out the most highly regarded cells on DX are the Trustfire 2400mAh protected cells with the black/red flames label - I use them as my benchmark for cheaper priced cells. The Trustfire cells claim 2400mAh and test at 2450mAh, unfortunately it is rare for cells to provide more than they claim with a very high number of cells providing substantially LESS than what they claim.
> 
> So many people will look at the price and the claimed capacity and make their decision based on what seems like the best value based on what is claimed. Because the claims are often a complete lie there are a lot of people being ripped off.


I had my Ultrafire 2400mAh 18650s a couple of years ago from DX ... Can't remember how much they cost , but they are now $10-90 for two including postage ... For my useage , they are great ... When I first had them , I charged them and did a run-test with my Solarforce torches and they gave me the run-time that I was expecting ... I don't do any breaking in of batteries , I just use them.

I don't use my 18650 torches in a life or death situation , so if a battery doesn't last as long as it should then I would put another in ... If a battery proved to be unreliable or low capacity then I would dispose of it and when needed , I would buy more from DX ... The fact that it takes a few weeks to arrive , is no problem as I have several torches and batteries available.

I don't need anything more than 2400mAh ... I can get over 90 minutes use on high and still have almost 40% left ... For dog-walking , I don't need the high setting and the torch is usually used on low ... So for me , the cheap 2400mAh batteries have been perfect ... As they are highly recommended , next time I might buy the Trustfire ones ... I don't know when that will be as I still have my three spare 18650s.
.


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## degarb (Aug 30, 2011)

samgab said:


> I find rare earth magnets work well.


 
I assume you can solder to these. But, where do we buy these? Would be nice if Radio Shack had them. 

[commentary] I don't understand why all 18650 light sellers don't carry the batteries + Charger. And all 18650 sellers should carry charger and holder (magnets), too. [/commentary]


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## chiphead (Aug 30, 2011)

jeffosborne said:


> Tenergy makes good batteries:
> 
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/2600pcb-18650.html
> 
> ...


The Tenergy units are some good cells, but don't get them too cold. I gave 3 the boot, they couldn't handle the cold Texas winters. Down to 20f some nights, but the AW still rocking, even in the under sub-Saharan temp (107) here in Texas.

chiphead...in subSaharan Austin,TX


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## SHADE02 (Aug 30, 2011)

RI Chevy said:


> What about the Callie's and Redilast 3100's? How have these been working out for those who have them? The AW 3100 should be out soon.
> 
> I think the Callie's use the newer battery technology.



HOW DOES IT WORK??

PERFECT X 1000:thumbsup: haha

at least the redilast and the callie's

I have no experience with the AW cells(but this are probably as good as the redilast or better)

I got 2hrs 40min on turbo at my jb's 3M xml-l(450ls):devil: with the callie's 3100mAh (panasonic inside)


rare thing: the callie's 3100mAh won't fit in my jb's 3M R5(350ls)
but ,that's not the case of the 3M xm-l, where I use the callie's 3100mAh

good morning to everybody :wave:


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## samgab (Aug 30, 2011)

Here are my results on a discharge at 0.5A to 3V with the *PINK protected Ultrafire "2600mAh" cells*:






I tested 4 of them.
They are all pretty consistant, as you can see, all tested at ~1800mAh.
So nowhere near 2600mAh. (Edit: to be fair, on the DX website (not where I got my ones though), they do state: "Product print '2600mAh', the exact capacity is 1800mAh" so the info is there. I appreciate that sort of thing.) 
I've ordered a couple of the DX "flame" Trustfire 2400's to compare.


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## Old goat (Sep 3, 2011)

I am a noob here. I just ordered 4 of Callies batteries. I will see how they compair to the UltraFire batts that I have been using.


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## samgab (Sep 3, 2011)

Just needed to add, for accuracy's sake: My previous graph was done when I didn't realise that my Accucell 8150 has an inaccuracy in it's reported mAh readings.
I have redone the chart corrected for the inaccuracy:




This chart gives a more accurate result than the previous one.


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## samgab (Sep 8, 2011)

And here are the results of a brand new pair of Trustfire Flame "2400mAh" cells:




I've corrected the result to account for my hobby chargers error rate.
Both cells were almost identical in discharge curve. But a fair bit less than 2400. But still reasonably acceptable, in my opinion.


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## pabcor (Sep 8, 2011)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/dsc09452z.jpg/

I measured that.

Panasonic 3100 unprotected (green)
Ultrafire 3000 protected (red)
Ultrafire 4000 protected (black)
Ultrafire 4000 unprotected (black) bought on ebay (no photo)
Redilast 3100 protected
Callie's Customs 3100 protected
AW 2900 protected
Trustfire 2400 black with flames protected (no photo)

I tested on a flashlight fandyfire 700 (regulated 2.2A), and the best for capacity was *Panasonic 3100 unprotected*, *2h 33 min*, Ultrafire 4000 two types *1h 10 min*, Trustfire 2400 black with flames *1h 25 min*, Ultrafire 3000 *1h 50 min*, Callie's Customs and Redilast 3100 *2h 5 min *and AW 2900 *2h 17 min*) good light minutes, not counted bad light time.

With a luxometer 100.000 lux
At 19,68 inch (50 cms) to the sensor, full charged, first 10 seconds

Ultrafire 3000 protected: *12100 to 11600 lux*
Ultrafire 4000 protected: *16500 to 15900 lux*
Ultrafire 4000 unprotected: no tested
Trustfire 2400 black with flames protected: *16400 to 16100 lux*
Callie's Customs 3100 protected: *17700 to 17000 lux*
Redilast 3100 protected:* 17200 a 16700 lux*
Panasonic 3100 unprotected: *15500 to 15100 lux*
AW 2900 protected: *163000 to 157000 lux*

The most powerful light seems *Callie's Customs*

These measurements are approximate.


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## RI Chevy (Sep 8, 2011)

*Samgab* Thanks for the great graphs. Do you have any plans on testing the new Callies Kustom 3100's? I think many members are anxiously awaiting more test results.


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## samgab (Sep 10, 2011)

RI Chevy said:


> *Samgab* Thanks for the great graphs. Do you have any plans on testing the new Callies Kustom 3100's? I think many members are anxiously awaiting more test results.


 
Hi, thanks for the feedback... I haven't bought any Callies Kustoms, and I don't have any short term plans to get any... I've reached the point where I have sufficient 18650's for my uses for now. But maybe at some stage. If I ever get some I'll definitely test them and report back with results. But I'm sure someone will get in there with some test results and graphs before that time!


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## pabcor (Sep 10, 2011)

Sure, Iam waiting for a serious charger (icharger 1010b+) to test better my batteries.

http://imageshack.us/f/809/img1058v.jpg/


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## RI Chevy (Sep 10, 2011)

samgab said:


> Hi, thanks for the feedback... I haven't bought any Callies Kustoms, and I don't have any short term plans to get any... I've reached the point where I have sufficient 18650's for my uses for now. But maybe at some stage. If I ever get some I'll definitely test them and report back with results. But I'm sure someone will get in there with some test results and graphs before that time!


 
Thank you.


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## chiphead (Sep 13, 2011)

Look fellas, I lost 3 *Tenergys* 18650 cell because the couldn't handle a Texas winter. Down to 20f some mornings and that doesn't include the LED drop in that went down with them! Plus there're flat tops, so you can not stack them! I'm purchasing two more cells (AW 2900), but this time with a little more caution.
chiphead...more wary this winter.


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## pabcor (Sep 13, 2011)

And what about this type of 18650 LifePo4 battery?

world record car with this batteries
http://www.buckeyebullet.com/BB25.html

battery company
http://www.a123systems.com/products-overview.htm


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## Kuryakin (Oct 23, 2011)

Well, I bought a pair of Ultrafire 2600s two years ago when I got my MG-PLI, and one just failed, and both show signs of slight leakage. So, hating them a lot right now. Thinking of the AW 2900 cells, unless someone has a better recommendation! Any thoughts?


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## Lj-_- (Oct 23, 2011)

I got some senybor's, 2800mAh. Aparantly the are as good as the panasonic 2900's, according to this website anyhow. http://www.torchythebatteryboy.com/p/batteries_21.html

I've found mine to be very good so far, no complaints.


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## Zenbaas (Oct 23, 2011)

Kuryakin said:


> Well, I bought a pair of Ultrafire 2600s two years ago when I got my MG-PLI, and one just failed, and both show signs of slight leakage. So, hating them a lot right now. Thinking of the AW 2900 cells, unless someone has a better recommendation! Any thoughts?


 
What about the XTAR 2600 batteries..? They are marketed as 18700 but they actually just protected 18650's. They are actually sanyo batteries.


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## Stephen Wallace (Oct 23, 2011)

Lj-_- said:


> I got some senybor's, 2800mAh, I read somewhere that they are about equal to the panasonic 2900's, think they were tested with 1amp draw, so far they seem to be lasting out pretty good. I'll see if I can find the web page I read it from.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk



I'm going to guess at it being the 'Torchy the battery boy' web page.


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## Lj-_- (Oct 23, 2011)

Yep, I just edited my post. Are these claims correct? I couldn't imagine why not.


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## snakyjake (Oct 30, 2011)

pabcor said:


> Ultrafire 3000 protected: *12100 to 11600 lux*
> Ultrafire 4000 protected: *16500 to 15900 lux*
> Ultrafire 4000 unprotected: no tested
> Trustfire 2400 black with flames protected: *16400 to 16100 lux*
> ...



Is that an AW2900 typo of one too many zeros? Should it be *16300 to 15700* lux instead?


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## snakyjake (Oct 30, 2011)

pabcor said:


> I tested on a flashlight fandyfire 700 (regulated 2.2A), and the best for capacity was *Panasonic 3100 unprotected*, *2h 33 min*, Ultrafire 4000 two types *1h 10 min*, Trustfire 2400 black with flames *1h 25 min*, Ultrafire 3000 *1h 50 min*, Callie's Customs and Redilast 3100 *2h 5 min *and AW 2900 *2h 17 min*) good light minutes, not counted bad light time.
> 
> Callie's Customs 3100 protected: *17700 to 17000 lux*
> Redilast 3100 protected:* 17200 a 16700 lux*
> ...



I'm interpreting AW2900 and Callie's 3100 as the top 2 choices:
AW 2900 has the most protected runtime by 12 minutes over Callie.
Callie's give you more light (~1400 lux) at the cost of 12 minutes of AW2900 runtime?

Wondering if AW will have a 3100?
Interesting higher mAh doesn't necessary provide more runtime like many assume.

Jake


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## Stephen Wallace (Oct 30, 2011)

snakyjake said:


> Is that an AW2900 typo of one too many zeros? Should it be *16300 to 15700* lux instead?



I would have to presume that that was the case - I cannot imagine that a change of battery would make a tenfold increase in the lux value.


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## pabcor (Feb 5, 2012)

AW 3100
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-Protected-3100-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-_p_3954.html


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## Burgess (Feb 5, 2012)

Thank you, Pabcor !


Good work on spotting this new item.


:thumbsup:


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## Graham Sylvia (Mar 25, 2012)

Where do you get your callies customs 3100's, AW's, & redilast's? At the moment I am using Panasonic protected 3100's from Intloutdoor. I have also been using the solarforce 2400 protected battery's. Has anyone tested these?


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## HKJ (Mar 25, 2012)

Graham Sylvia said:


> Where do you get your callies customs 3100's, AW's, & redilast's? At the moment I am using Panasonic protected 3100's from Intloutdoor. I have also been using the solarforce 2400 protected battery's. Has anyone tested these?



Callies is bought from Callies kustoms and RediLast is bought from RediLast, AW can be found from many shops and directly from AW on cpf marketplace.
I did test the SolarForce 2400 last year, but I do not have them in my current test.


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## chewy78 (Mar 25, 2012)

it would be interesting to see some of the cells from last years test in the comparator.


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## RI Chevy (Mar 25, 2012)

Graham Sylvia said:


> Where do you get your callies customs 3100's, AW's, & redilast's? At the moment I am using Panasonic protected 3100's from Intloutdoor. I have also been using the solarforce 2400 protected battery's. Has anyone tested these?



Which Panasonic 3100 cells, the blue or black?


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## HKJ (Mar 25, 2012)

chewy78 said:


> it would be interesting to see some of the cells from last years test in the comparator.



Due to different test conditions, I will not mix results from the two tests.


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## chewy78 (Mar 25, 2012)

or maybe retest some of them ?


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## HKJ (Mar 25, 2012)

chewy78 said:


> or maybe retest some of them ?



I have included some of them in the new test and more are coming, not the 1 year old batteries, but new one from this year (or December 2011).


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## Graham Sylvia (Mar 26, 2012)

RI Chevy said:


> Which Panasonic 3100 cells, the blue or black?


 The black one's.


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## Graham Sylvia (Mar 26, 2012)

Graham Sylvia said:


> Where do you get your callies customs 3100's, AW's, & redilast's? At the moment I am using Panasonic protected 3100's from Intloutdoor. I have also been using the solarforce 2400 protected battery's. Has anyone tested these?


 As I am in Aus. there is not too many place's that sell the battery's that are mentioned in this topic in Australia.


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## d337944 (Mar 26, 2012)

Hey Graham

There's a Top-Rated E-Bay seller in Sydney Australia (supersports600) that sells protected Panasonic 3100 cells under a brand name of Blazar, but which seem to get good reviews from buyers.

You could give this source a try?

Cheers
d337944



Graham Sylvia said:


> As I am in Aus. there is not too many place's that sell the battery's that are mentioned in this topic in Australia.


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## Norm (Mar 26, 2012)

Graham Sylvia said:


> As I am in Aus. there is not too many place's that sell the battery's that are mentioned in this topic in Australia.



Why limit yourself to buying from Australia? 
Your more than likley going to be buying online anyway, most suppliers ship here.

Norm


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## HKJ (Mar 26, 2012)

Graham Sylvia said:


> As I am in Aus. there is not too many place's that sell the battery's that are mentioned in this topic in Australia.



Some dealers does have shipping to anywhere in the world, either included or for a small extra payment.


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## AmperSand (Mar 26, 2012)

d337944 said:


> Hey Graham
> 
> There's a Top-Rated E-Bay seller in Sydney Australia (supersports600) that cells protected Panasonic 3100 cells under a brand name of Blazar, but which seem to get good reviews from buyers.
> 
> ...



I actually ordered a pair earlier today. Been on the fence about it a bit. Went for the nipple top version as it's going to be used in an Eagletac d25lc2 or Fenix PD31. Master-instruments also do very similar cells with ncr18650's in 2900 and 3100mAh however are more like $25 a cell at retail compared to the $29 a pair from the eBay seller.
Here's hoping the are good performers! Should have them by Wednesday/Thursday!


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## RI Chevy (Mar 26, 2012)

Graham Sylvia said:


> The black one's.


The black batteries that you have are pretty comparable to the Callie's Kustoms.


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## HackerFoo (Mar 26, 2012)

It seems like the TrustFire 2400mAh cells have the best $/Ah ratio. I can't justify spending 5 times as much on a cell that doesn't even have twice the capacity.


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## moderator007 (Mar 26, 2012)

HackerFoo said:


> It seems like the TrustFire 2400mAh cells have the best $/Ah ratio. I can't justify spending 5 times as much on a cell that doesn't even have twice the capacity.


According to some test I have seen there not hardly as good as they use to be. I do have several of the older ones that are a decent battery.


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## TEEJ (Mar 26, 2012)

I worry about what's really IN those cells on the blankfires in general....too many horror stories.

One set might be new cells, but factory seconds, another might be used cells from a lap top, etc...you don't know what you're getting....and that means the internal resistance is a crap shoot.

Also - For me..I use lights all day, I don't want to have to bring twice as many cells with me as spares....so a longer run time is not just a power/$ equation...part of the time=$ equation says having to go change cells costs $ too, etc.

I'd rather use cells I was comfortable with, that ran as long as possibe...and would probably not fulminate instead of illuminate.


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## roadkill1109 (Mar 27, 2012)

etc said:


> I need something with at least 2500 mAh in 18650 cells.
> 
> I know Panasonic makes these 2900 mAh cells which would really rock except that they don't appear to be protected.



There ARE protected panasonic cells, you can find them in Ebay and in Int'l Outdoor website.


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## d337944 (Mar 27, 2012)

G'day Norm, have you had any issues with our Aussie Customs department when ordering batteries from overseas?

I bought some from overseas last year without issues, but I've read of other Aussies having their parcels stopped by customs for some reason, so I'm not too sure on what the real story is nowadays.

Cheers mate,
Andrew



Norm said:


> Why limit yourself to buying from Australia?
> Your more than likley going to be buying online anyway, most suppliers ship here.
> 
> Norm


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## HKJ (Mar 27, 2012)

roadkill1109 said:


> There ARE protected panasonic cells, you can find them in Ebay and in Int'l Outdoor website.



Panasonic makes the cell, but somebody else add the protection. The final battery can be sold as a "Protected Panasonic" or "RediLast" or "AW" or ...
You can find a lot of the names in my battery test.


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## Graham Sylvia (Mar 28, 2012)

d337944 said:


> G'day Norm, have you had any issues with our Aussie Customs department when ordering batteries from overseas?
> 
> I bought some from overseas last year without issues, but I've read of other Aussies having their parcels stopped by customs for some reason, so I'm not too sure on what the real story is nowadays.
> 
> ...


 Thank's guy's for the advice on Supersports 600. Have had a look & will order a few 3100mah from them. I have been using the protected battery's from Solarforce & have found them fairly good & have never had problem's getting them sent to me& I have around 40 of them. I just wanted to try a few of the higher mah battery's to see if they give me a better run time.


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