# I need a good compass



## chamenos (Nov 29, 2006)

I always find myself in need of one, but those little water-filled compasses I usually get are always leaking and becoming unserviceable after a while. I need something that's small, compact, reliable, and affordable. Recommendations?


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## Lobo (Nov 29, 2006)

I really like my Silva-compass when I'm outdoors, but it's not as tiny as keychain water compasses, so it might not suit your needs if you're gonna carry it around all the time. Otherwise, topnotch compass.


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## cy (Nov 29, 2006)

the only reliable small compass I've seen is a Suunto.


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## hiluxxulih (Nov 29, 2006)

What kind of watch is that ? it looks good


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## cy (Nov 29, 2006)

TSAR with zulu band and of course Suunto compass. purchased first on in hong kong during a 3 week trip thru china. that little compass was a live saver. passed it on to my boy, who finally killed it. that's 5 years of rugged duty...


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## chamenos (Nov 30, 2006)

Thanks Charles, that looks like what I might need...is that the Suunto Clipper?


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## Coop (Nov 30, 2006)

That Suunto compass is also available from Recta and Silva. Only difference is the color and the brandname on it. 

I usually have something a little bigger, but very affordable, durable and a lot more accurate in my EDC bag. A Silva Field 7 (http://www.silva.se/outdoor/products/comp_field7.htm)


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## chamenos (Nov 30, 2006)

Currently deciding between the Suunto Clipper and the Silva Field 7 suggested...are Silva or Recta compasses basically rebranded Suuntos?


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## hiluxxulih (Nov 30, 2006)

I may have to save up some cash and buy one , is there any difference between the qaurtz and the automatic , I have a Seiko SKX009J that I like and its pretty accurate .


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## cy (Nov 30, 2006)

I'd get the real thing and go with Suunto. they're pretty low cost. under $15 if I remember correctly. 

Marathon TSAR is quartz, GSAR is mechanical. both are fine watches, since I've already got a Submariner, getting a GSAR would be redundant. 

Submariner has been sitting in gun safe since getting TSAR. really like Suunto/TSAR/Zulu combo.


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## Sharpdogs (Dec 1, 2006)

You can try the Marbles Pin-On Compass for $13.99.
https://edcdepot.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=4&products_id=62

I keep on of Sun's 20mm compass in my PSK. They run about $5.99.


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## wmirag (Dec 1, 2006)

Coincidentally I bought two last month for $9.95 each at
http://www.thecompassstore.com/51clipl.html
The shipping was very quick.

That store has a minimum purchase, hence a buddy will get the extra one for Christmas!

They are nice little tools, not toys. They come with a removeable wrist strap. The rotating bezel has click-stops so you can set the declination and keep it there. To find your declination, go to:
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/seg/geomag/jsp/Declination.jsp
Mine is 13 degrees West.

W.


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## London Lad (Dec 1, 2006)

Silva is defiantly a maker in its own right, I dont know about Recta


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## chamenos (Dec 1, 2006)

wmirag, call me ignorant, but before reading your post I was not aware of the declination of the Earth's magnetic field. Thanks for enlightening me 

Like with every other gadget I buy, I started out intending to get something small and simple that would get the job done, like the Suunto Clipper. I'm eyeing the Suunto M2 now...what do you guys think?

Is there any noticeable difference in quality or reliability between the Suunto and Silva compasses?


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## macforsale (Dec 1, 2006)

*


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## cy (Dec 1, 2006)

suunto m2 is a full size compass. back to the best compass is the one you have with you. 

if I'm on a navigation course, then I'll use a full sized Silva. but it sure is nice to have Suunto clipper always with me. EDC compass. 

they really serve two different purposes. full sized vs tiny EDC compass. 



chamenos said:


> Like with every other gadget I buy, I started out intending to get something small and simple that would get the job done, like the Suunto Clipper. I'm eyeing the Suunto M2 now...what do you guys think?
> 
> Is there any noticeable difference in quality or reliability between the Suunto and Silva compasses?


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## Coop (Dec 1, 2006)

chamenos said:


> Is there any noticeable difference in quality or reliability between the Suunto and Silva compasses?




I don't think so. I own a Silva and its top quality. I've only heard good things about Suunto. And my dad owns a Recta that is on the same quality-level as my Silva... 

Brunton compasses are mostly rebranded Silva models. If you're in the US the Brunton versions might be a bit cheaper than the Silva models. The Brunton 7DNL is equal to the Silva Field 7.

And to show how little difference there is between these brands:


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## cy (Dec 1, 2006)

maycooper, all three looks like they were made by same mfg with same mold...


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## chamenos (Dec 1, 2006)

Well, I guess I might have to buy both 

I'll probably go with a Suunto, as I'm currently in Italy and will be until next May. There's a Suunto dealer that's just a 40 minute walk away from where I stay, so I'll probably go check them out tomorrow. I'm really hoping prices will be decent...I've seen 2C Maglites here go for 40 Euros (~US$53)


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## Coop (Dec 1, 2006)

cy said:


> maycooper, all three looks like they were made by same mfg with same mold...



Exactly...


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## l1s125 (Dec 1, 2006)

If you wear an analog watch you can always do this


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## chamenos (Dec 3, 2006)

So I found the shop, and they're charging approximately 200-300% MSRP 

Anyway I'm pretty much settled on the Suunto Clipper and M2, which I'll get over the winter break. Thanks to all for the help and suggestions! 1s125's suggestion will have to suffice for now


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## Per Arne (Dec 4, 2006)

Hi,

- Tru-Nord Compass (www.trunord.com)
- S.A.S Compass (www.tadgear.com)
- Marbles Compass (WWW.marblesoutdoors.com)
- Silva Compass (www.silvacompass.com)
- Suunto Compass (www.suunto.com)
- Brunton Compass (www.brunton.com)
www.rei.com

PA


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## Glen22 (Dec 10, 2006)

Here's the deal on compass manufacturers, bear with me:

Silva of Sweden (the original SILVA of historical fame) owns Brunton. They bought Brunton mainly because they lost a battle to market compasses under their company name in North America. In North America, most (not all) Silva of Sweden compasses are sold as Brunton models, most under the 'Nexus' nameplate. If you want for example a genuine 'Silva of Sweden' Ranger in North America, you buy a Brunton Nexus 15 or 25! 

Silva U.S.A. is owned by Johnson Outdoors, who won the right to use the 'Silva' name in North America. They are NOT the same as Silva of Sweden, they are NOT a original compass manufacturer and they only own names. 'Silva' brand compasses sold in North America are all Johnson Outdoor compasses. JO instead specs and sources compasses from makers all over the world, including Suunto, which is why the Silva clipper-style and wristband (model 424) compasses sold in North America look suspiciously like Suuntos. To make matters more confusing, JO owns certain original Silva model names for North America distribution as well, like Ranger, Explorer, Starter 1-2-3, and Polaris. I have a strong suspicion some of the cheaper Silva USA compasses sold in North America are actually sourced from China, but I can't prove it.

Recta is owned by Suunto. Suunto continues to market both Recta and Suunto-manufactured compasses under both the Recta and Suunto names.


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## London Lad (Dec 10, 2006)

Interesting.

In my post above I was referring to Silva of Sweden, I had never heard of any other 'Silva' (up until now!)


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## Omega Man (Dec 11, 2006)

My Walmart has these on clearance for $4:
http://cspoutdoors.stores.yahoo.net/sibrpico.html
So I got one to replace the toy one AW includes in his orders. Not bad for $4, eh?


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## chiphead (Dec 15, 2006)

Try Cammenga, they make the compasses for the military. And the bodies are made of metal!


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## Omega Man (Dec 18, 2006)

Well, I just won a Silva 340 watch-strap compass off Ebay. I reaaaaaally hope it's here within the week, was shipped today. The packaging has both English and French, so I'm not sure if it's a Swedish made product or not. The description says "Made in Finland".
Either way, it's saving me from buying a Maratac AQC! Thanks to cy and others for their testimonials on these, they were the deciding factor for me.


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## wmirag (Dec 19, 2006)

I just got the Suunto M-3G with global needle and adjustable declination. I have yet to use it in the field, but I think this is going to be a winner. I never had an adjustable declination compass before. 

For those of you to whom this is also new, there is a little screw that allows you to create the declination offset between the capsule "True North" lines and the capsule "Magnetic North" pointer. 

This allows you to set the compass on a map with the capsule "True North" lines parallel to your map's N-S Meridians. Then, when you take to the field, you can just orient the needle at the pointer and the bearing will read correctly WITHOUT that mental calculation I goof up half the time!

http://www.thecompassstore.com/51m3gl.html


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## Uncle Bob (Dec 19, 2006)

Good choice! Adjustable declination is the way to go. No adding/subtracting degrees and getting confused. For interested parties REI has an excellent selection of compasses and information on how to choose a compass.

:goodjob:


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## cave dave (Dec 21, 2006)

Suunito Gem is my favorite zipper pull size ones. I'd like to get a Brunton watchband one.
Here is a nice selection from Backpackinglight.com
http://tinyurl.com/yk77kd


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## Omega Man (Dec 21, 2006)

That site has that Brunton band compass at a GREAT price, under $10 shipped! I could only find it for $15 unshipped most places. I just got the Silva for $8.33 shipped on Ebay.


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## vandrecken (Dec 22, 2006)

Silva (the Swedish originals) or Suunto are equally good and top end compasses. A large part of each makers range is the so called "baseplate" type compass which is especially easy to use transferring bearings to and from a map. They also do sighting compasses of various types up o high precision professional kit fo geographers, geologists and the military. Although superficially they look similar, the two companies products ARE clearly different once you look closely, not badged versions of the same products.

Suunto also have a substantial range of dive watches and computers, and multifunction wrist watches designed for mountain sports etc.

Silva have a couple of unusual GPS units and digital compasses.


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## chamenos (Dec 23, 2006)

I got the Suunto Clipper finally, since I figured it would suffice for my driving or urban orienteering needs, and it's been great so far in the two days I've had it.

However I noticed a small air bubble inside today, which was kinda disappointing since I've only had it two days. It disappeared soon after, and I haven't been able to get it to reappear since. Is this something I should be concerned about? The movement of the card doesn't seem to have been affected by it though.

Whilst walking around Rome, I dropped by this shop selling knives (including some Spydercos and a couple of SureFire G2s), and picked up a "Virginia Outdoors" water-filled lensatic compass, which looks like a Cammenga clone. Construction is metal, and quality seems decent, though the movement of the card is slower than my Suunto Clipper, though no less accurate. Does anyone know anything about this compass, e.g. where it's made in, quality, etc?

Again, thanks to all for the help and advice so far!


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## cy (Dec 23, 2006)

mine has no bubble, but if you can't get it to reappear. would not worry about it... don't think it'll affect performance one way or the other.


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## Omega Man (Dec 23, 2006)

For those also interested in watches with compasses, new Timex Expeditions with *analog* compass hand:
http://www.watchreport.com/2005/01/timex_introduce_1.html


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## chamenos (Dec 24, 2006)

Thanks Charles, just worried that the bubble might be stuck somewhere, messing up the card's movement without me knowing. So far so good though, it's already proven itself useful on more than a few occasions :thumbsup:


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## chamenos (Dec 27, 2006)

Update: I've noticed the air bubble only appears when the compass has been exposed to the cold, and disappears once warm. My guess is that the compass isn't actually leaking, but rather some of the water is boiled off due to the negative pressure created when the water contracts from the cold.

I'll probably get the Cammenga Model 27 instead of a water-filled baseplate compass.


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## Glen22 (Dec 29, 2006)

"I just won a Silva 340 watch-strap compass off Ebay...The packaging has both English and French, so I'm not sure if it's a Swedish made product or not. The description says "Made in Finland".

A: The Silva 340 is actually a rebadged Suunto Clipper and is made by Suunto for Johnson Worldwide (Silva USA). As I mentioned before, the 'Brunton' watchband compass is a Silva of Sweden product.

Also, liquid-filled compasses do not generally 'boil off' since they are not filled with water but rather alcohol, kerosene, or a light oil. All liquid-filled compasses not fitted with a diaphragm can be subject to a bubble developing from extremes of heat and cold (even some with diaphragms), but small clipper-type watchband compasses particularly so - something to do with the small volume, i suppose. I have picked through a rack with Suunto clipper compasses to find one without a bubble. However, if not heated to the extent that the fluid expanded past capsule capacity causing a leak (resulting in a permanent bubble at lower temperatures), small bubbles do not interfere with needle operation and the bubble should disappear when placed in a sunny location (windowshelf, etc.) for a short time. 

Air-filled compasses have their own issues with the elements. The primary one is water ingress when immersed in water or exposed to high humidity. The numbers of U.S. current issue lensatic compasses becoming inaccurate or inoperative during training in jungle environments is legendary. Some air-filled compasses also have relatively long needle pivots which are prone to bending with any sort of major impact.


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## Omega Man (Dec 29, 2006)

Thanks for the post Glen, when it arrived I could get a better look at the packaging, and it clearly says at the bottom that it is a product of Johnson Worldwide, made in Finland. It works better than the digital compass on my Timex Expedition, so that's good enough for me.


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## chamenos (Dec 30, 2006)

Glen, what you said makes sense, but what would the bubble be composed off otherwise? I am pretty sure the bubble wasn't caused by a leak, as I watched it shrink and disappear after allowing the compass to sit on a laptop power brick for a while.

In any case, I think I'll get the Cammenga M27. Won't be doing any jungle training myself, and there's the one-year warranty if it comes to that.

As an aside, I just found out the black prismatic compass issued to me in the military was a British Francis Barker M73. I would've been a lot more careful with it had I known it retails for US$390 new! It nevertheless took all I threw at it (or rather threw it at), and it worked great in Singapore's humid rainforests (80+%)


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## Glen22 (Dec 31, 2006)

"Glen, what you said makes sense, but what would the bubble be composed off otherwise? I am pretty sure the bubble wasn't caused by a leak, as I watched it shrink and disappear after allowing the compass to sit on a laptop power brick for a while."

Bubbles can form in several ways. Poor quality control and manufacturing. Excessive heat causing a leak. Low pressure (think aircraft hold) causing a void (bubble) to appear. An extreme temperature drop, causing the fluid to contract to the point that a bubble forms. The latter is the most common.

Don't forget that watchband compasses have very small capsules and the case is fairly rigid (some larger compass capsules are flexible enough to serve as a kind of expanding/contracting diaphragm). My guess (and it's only a guess) is that when these small compasses are filled, probably at a medium temperature, it doesn't take much of a temperature drop to cause a bubble. Otherwise, why should so many develop bubbles even before they are sold off the rack? 

Bubble issues are less common in fullsize baseplate or orienteering compasses. Though they can occur, they are usually small and insignificant in my experience (certain Brunton Eclipse models excluded, seen a few whoppers there, though they've always disappeared after warming). Don't forget that liquid-filled baseplate compasses are issued worldwide, especially by nearly all the Northern European and Scandinavian military forces (Sweden, Norway, Finland, Germany, Denmark, France, United Kingdom, etc, etc.). Also Canada and the German Alpine Association. The original Suunto liquid-filled compass was invented in Finland by an officer in the Finnish Army who was unhappy with issue air-filled individual compasses and the tendency of needles and pivots to freeze up. The new Suunto was intended to be used in the field, in Finnish winters, and many have seen exactly that type of service. 

"I dropped by this shop..and picked up a "Virginia Outdoors" water-filled lensatic compass, which looks like a Cammenga clone. Construction is metal, and quality seems decent, though the movement of the card is slower than my Suunto Clipper, though no less accurate. Does anyone know anything about this compass, e.g. where it's made in, quality, etc?"

If you're willing to accept an educated guess, it's one of the many Chinese- or Taiwanese-made lensatic compass clones. They come in recent (Cammenga) and older round ('engineers') lensatic-style compass housings, except that virtually all use the same liquid-filled shallow compass capsule (shallow meaning it's easy to ground the compass card if you tilt the compass even slightly while taking a bearing). Most have zinc or plastic outer housings instead of the issue aluminum. Quality can vary widely, as well as accuracy (some of these have compass cards marked every degree and can be read to 1/2 degree, theoretically). Believe it or not, I have a $5.00 Wal-Mart example with a plastic housing that is accurate to 0.5-1 degree and has NEVER suffered from a bubble in all kinds of temperatures, but I have seen several that don't approach this level of accuracy. It is cheap though, and I did have to add a copper tab to the housing to keep the compass dial from freely rotating in its housing and to keep a bearing locked in!

"In any case, I think I'll get the Cammenga M27. Won't be doing any jungle training myself, and there's the one-year warranty if it comes to that."

Understood. There are very few compasses that don't have some type of drawback, so I thought you'd want to know about the air-filled models.

"As an aside, I just found out the black prismatic compass issued to me in the military was a British Francis Barker M73. I would've been a lot more careful with it had I known it retails for US$390 new! It nevertheless took all I threw at it (or rather threw it at), and it worked great in Singapore's humid rainforests (80+%)"

Not to be a contrarian ALL the time, but I have one of these, and I have to tell the truth - although the M73 is fitted with a diaphragm, and was recently reconditioned, it still regularly forms a bubble at low temperatures (always disappearing on return to room temperature). The M73 (even recent production) is in reality quite an old design, and uses alcohol as the liquid dampening fill, much like some marine compasses. My theory is that the alcohol is less suited to large, radical changes in temperature than the light oils which now predominate as the liquid of choice in modern compasses. But it's only a theory.

Worst bubble I ever saw (and which has never disappeared) was on a Plastimo Iris 50 marine handbearing compass. Never even made it to sea before a huge bubble formed - it was stored at room temperature on a shelf away from extreme heat and extreme cold, though the difference between daytime hi and nighttime low could be up to 40 degrees F. Plastimo says the compass' diaphragm should have prevented any bubbles, but it didn't for me.


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