# My LED fling is over



## kelmo (Sep 27, 2007)

This summer I got a NovaTac P85, Fenix P1 CE, and a BOG Cree Premium drop in for my 6P. They got plenty of use this summer but the novelty has worn off. The NovaTac and Fenix are in my hiking gear that will see very little use during the rainy season and my 6Cree is now in my trucks emergancy kit.

I always come back to my incans. The E2d has reclaimed its rightful place in my backpack. My turboheaded 9P once again is my bright light of choice. My 9P has fresh cells and it's SC1 is ready for grab'n and go'n. The ding on my E2e bezel is not an annoyance anymore and is now a loving reminder of my wife (she dropped it).

No more belt carrying a small LED. The cooler weather means pockets for incans and spares carriers. It just doesn't feel right not carrying extra cells and lamps with your light.

I love this time of year!


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## MikeSalt (Sep 27, 2007)

What moved me to LEDs in the first place was the promise of a 'white, crystal clear beam' compared to the 'sickly, yellow beam' produced by incandescents. Whilst this description holds true for poorly driven incandescents (most stock Maglites), I had an education to learn.

I had a 6D Mag, with stock Krypton bulb which was less than impressive for the size. This looked weak compared to my P1D-CE. However, when I learned about the Magnum-Star Xenon bulbs, I gave them a whirl, and was instantly impressed.

Of course, curiosity got the better of me, and that lead to 6 NiMH D-cells, a Magcharger glass window, FM reflector and of course Pelican ROP bulbs. This had me hooked on incandescents, and soon saw plenty of use outside. However, the Uniross 2600 cells took 16 hours to charge, and they kept failing on me (made in France). I was fed up taking them back for replacements. Eventually I decided that ROP high was too much current draw for these cells, and went back to a ROP low, which is still impressive. The size is hardly EDC-able.

So, I invested some more, and built a 2D ROP. I used high quality (not made in France) cells and a FM 6AA>2D adapter. Using a fast charger, it will charge in less than three hours. I carry it everywhere in my Uni/Hiking rucksack just in case I need it. It is fantastic!


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## lctorana (Sep 27, 2007)

Never say it's over. LEDs have nearly taken over the small handheld torch market, but progress won't stop there.

R-bin Crees will come out next year, DX is already selling 10W, 20W and even 50W LED dies, so clearly, LEDs will move, one day soon, into the territory of big lights, like D-Maglites and 4F lanterns.

Naturally, this means buy top-quality incans while you still can, and enjoy them. There will be plenty of first-generation "big power" LED lights that will be inadequate for one reason or another - too much heat, inadequate heat sinking, melting, poor run time, poor reflector focus, etc.

But eventually, really good ones will be made. Inevitably so.

There are exciting times ahead for the hobby. It's a great time to be into flashlights. Especially LED flashlights.


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## kelmo (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm not arguing the fact that LED tech is advancing fast. I'm just stating a personal preference.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 27, 2007)

lctorana said:


> Never say it's over. LEDs have nearly taken over the small handheld torch market, but progress won't stop there.
> 
> R-bin Crees will come out next year, DX is already selling 10W, 20W and even 50W LED dies, so clearly, LEDs will move, one day soon, into the territory of big lights, like D-Maglites and 4F lanterns.
> 
> ...


Power alone ain't worth poop without good color rendition. I do not carry an ican for brute power, most of my hiking incans are in the 50 lumen ballpark. And they all blow away my 160+ lumens LED lights when it comes to outdoor performance. I simply can see way better with an incan and it doesn't matter how much lumens the thing is putting out.


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## MarNav1 (Sep 27, 2007)

I got rid of all my incans except for 1. Had to hang on to my A2. Wish I could find the FiveMega socket mod for one but I like the fact that it is regulated and the bulbs are pretty tough. Not too big either.


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## lctorana (Sep 27, 2007)

Of course. Silly me.

I forgot that it isn't possible to appreciate both types.

Mea culpa.


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## MikeSalt (Sep 28, 2007)

I appreciate both types, but the quality of light from my high-power incandescents is more pleasing to me, and useful.

I suppose the analogy would be;

LED: Good power to size ratio, this is like having a black and white 50 inch plasma television (I consider it small because it is thin). You can SEE it easily, but due to the lack of colour, you cannot READ the information as easily

INCAN:Not so good power to size ratio, this is like having a really top quality 21 inch colour CRT television, the blacks are truly black, the colour depth is as deep as you like. It is harder to SEE, but what you do see is easier to READ due to the richness of the information. (Also, CRT is well tried and tested, just like INCANs but that is another analogy altogether).

Of course, a B&W plasma TV is theoretical. The bottom line is that for more POWER, choose an LED, for more INFORMATION RETRIEVAL, choose an INCAN.


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## daveman (Sep 28, 2007)

MikeSalt said:


> I appreciate both types, but the quality of light from my high-power incandescents is more pleasing to me, and useful.
> 
> I suppose the analogy would be;
> 
> ...


That is by far THE BEST explanation of the differences between LEDs' and Incans' color renditions. 
I understand why some folks would be disappointed with the inferior color rendition of LEDs compared with Incans. Incans are much easier on the eyes, particularly outdoors. But if you want to go small, and I assume you (Kelmo) edc something, LED lights can put out over 150 lumens out the front (with Q5 bin) compared with ~50 lumens for an edc-sized incan; that difference of 100 lumens more than makes up for any color renditioning defeciencies.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Sep 28, 2007)

I use nothing but incans; however, I keep a few 10mm LED keyring lights on my keyring as give-waways. And I have to say, when used as a defensive weapon to blind an assailant, an LED has it all over an incan. A humble 10mm LED hurts my eyes more than any incan under 200 lumens.


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## scott.cr (Sep 28, 2007)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> A humble 10mm LED hurts my eyes more than any incan under 200 lumens.



I wonder if this is because of the instant-on effect of the LED giving less time for the eyes to adjust? Personally I've been "beamed" with a stock Surefire U2 and found it more shocking than other lights.

Having said that, with the sale of my U2 last week, a VB-16 is the sole "nice" LED in my collection. I like the VB-16, but incans are my go-to lights for most tasks. I much, much prefer their color temp, power, simplicity and reliability. The LEDs are just too complex to be easily field-repaired should something go wrong.


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## Dinan (Sep 28, 2007)

I have to agree with LED's being more harsh on the eyes when confronted with the business end of the associated flashlight. I *think* (don't quote me heh) it's because of the color spectrum being more towards the blue, where human eyes are used to a full spectrum from the sun and have natural defenses against an overload of red light but are not accustomed to a lot of blue light with almost no infrared light from LEDs. Again... I'm no expert, not even close, but one of my astronomy friends explained it to me that way and it works for me!

Anyway, I love my A2 because of the regulation and the whiteness, I'm thinking about getting a 2nd =)
Also thinking about moving up and getting a "bright" incan... 3cell or larger hopefully, but I'm not sure which one yet.


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## kelmo (Sep 28, 2007)

The intent of the thread wasn't supposed to be another heated incan vs LED discussion. We've already covered that ground ad naseum.

I was just celebrating the changing of the seasons. I love the crisp autumn air. Incan light is perfect for a misty evening. 

Regulated runtime is nice, but I've never had to be "Survivor Man."

Paul_in_Maryland is right, incans satisfy. O-YEAH...


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## brunt_sp (Sep 28, 2007)

MikeSalt said:


> I appreciate both types, but the quality of light from my high-power incandescents is more pleasing to me, and useful.
> 
> I suppose the analogy would be;
> LED: Good power to size ratio ...........
> INCAN:Not so good power to size ratio ..........


+ 1. Much respect for the analogy.


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## bestcounsel (Sep 28, 2007)

Here is my take on led and incans...

Tactical-Duty situations= Incans
General Purpose = led

Keep in mind that in life, one may have more use for general purpose situations. 

Again, i have both type and need both types for my line of work.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 28, 2007)




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## 2xTrinity (Sep 29, 2007)

> Power alone ain't worth poop without good color rendition. I do not carry an ican for brute power, most of my hiking incans are in the 50 lumen ballpark. And they all blow away my 160+ lumens LED lights when it comes to outdoor performance. I simply can see way better with an incan and it doesn't matter how much lumens the thing is putting out.


Definitely agreed. While I actually prefer cool white light to incandescent light for reading/task lights (note: by cool white I mean 4000K like fluorescent, not 6500K like most LEDs) as I find my eyes work best there lumen for lumen in terms of black-and-white contrast. Outdoors however, there is very little that reflects blue light -- trees and dirt etc almost entirely reflect green and red, so a light source that is stronger in red will produce much better contrast. 

Of course, what I am waiting for is someone to make an LED with an enhanced red phosphor and a color temperature of around 4000K. If that ca be done at high power, so that LED flashlights are essentially as good or better as the highest-qualty stadium lights (enhanced metal halide) for color rendition, then I will probably finally let go of incan flashlights.


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## Nubo (Sep 29, 2007)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Power alone ain't worth poop without good color rendition. I do not carry an ican for brute power, most of my hiking incans are in the 50 lumen ballpark. And they all blow away my 160+ lumens LED lights when it comes to outdoor performance. I simply can see way better with an incan and it doesn't matter how much lumens the thing is putting out.



Hopefully once the LED "race for power" is over, the engineers will turn to the issue of color rendition.


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## MikeSalt (Oct 2, 2007)

As soon as the race for power is over, they should definately look towards colour rendition. Is it even possible to have true full-spectrum LEDs?


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## IMSabbel (Oct 2, 2007)

MikeSalt said:


> As soon as the race for power is over, they should definately look towards colour rendition. Is it even possible to have true full-spectrum LEDs?



Why shouldnt it? 
And take a look at the horribly crappy specta of HID lamps, and people are still happy with them. compared to them, LED ARE already full spectrum. There is the green/yellpw-dip, but no gaps in the emission spectrum.


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## 2xTrinity (Oct 2, 2007)

MikeSalt said:


> As soon as the race for power is over, they should definately look towards colour rendition. Is it even possible to have true full-spectrum LEDs?


LEDs can certainly be optimized for color rendition, either by using multiple separate emitters of different wavelengths, or by implementing LEDs with a blue die and two phosphors (separate green and red, instead of the single "yellowish" phosphor used now) There have been LEDs done in the lab with two phosphors (blue die + red and green phosphors), with nearly ideal results -- 4000K color temperature with a CRI of 96 -- a fairly neutral white (similar shade to a standard fluorescent lamp but with much better color rendition)

I personally have achieved awesome results with color rendering by taking LEDs with a slight "greenish" tint, and then grouping them with a separate red LED, or using mixtures of both LEDs and incandescent. (cool LED + warm incan = neutral blend). 

Keep in mind though that color rendition that is accurate to natural light is not always preferred. Many prefer incandescent light outdoors for the same reason people wear blue-blocking sunglasses -- exaggerating the reds and attenuating the blue tends to enhance contrast when looking at things like trees that reflect almost no blue. etc even if it's less "realistic" (grass for example tends to look browner/deader under incandescent light)


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## Supernam (Oct 2, 2007)

Incands give me a warm and fuzzy feeling when I use them outdoors. I feel more secure on a cold winter night with its warm golden beam piercing through the foggy air. Its rays bring out the rich colors of the earth and and seem to one with nature. Purely psychological, but truly comforting. 

Too bad it's hard to find an incandescent that runs for more than an hour!:scowl:


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## greenLED (Oct 2, 2007)

Dinan said:


> I have to agree with LED's being more harsh on the eyes when confronted with the business end of the associated flashlight.


Interesting observation - I've noticed that too. I've been close to starting a thread on that particular topic a couple of times, but then I get sidetracked.


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## lctorana (Oct 2, 2007)

Supernam said:


> Too bad it's hard to find an incandescent that runs for more than an hour!:scowl:


Not all incans are hotwires, sonny.

Remember there is a world of D Cells and F cells out there, has been for years, and the siren song of 100-hour incan runtime is calling you...


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## Gatsby (Oct 2, 2007)

I still keep a SL Strion in the mix - I like the penetrating beam and the color rendition particularly outside. It I'm trying to spot something on the house or out in the yard it works better than my MagLED 3D which is about the brightest and most throw LED I have.


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## munkybiz_9881 (Oct 2, 2007)

I agree that there can be two kinds of love here, but you have to hand it to the LED manufacturers, they are trying to catch up.

The new Rebels are very nice and retain color quite nicely, not to incan levels, but they are getting closer.

Just last night I was comparing a P3D Rebel 100 to a SL stinger xt(which I know isn't "powerful", but is the most common incan I use). Up close the Stinger has wonderful color retention, but at a distance the rebel is brighter and lights up a much bigger area, add that to the "acceptable" color retention, and the P3D is much more useful to me. 

The fact that most LED lights project a intense or bluish-white light also has its benifit. For me when I'm patrolling around and checking things out Its hard not to notice that a large percentage of buildings and houses, garages, etc...are white is color. This being said I can use the stinger and project a yellow beam into the shadows and illuminate parts of a building, or I can project a beam from an $11 DX Cree drop-in in a G2 and illuminate half of a block from all the Bright white light bouncing from building to building. Then I can put the same light in my pocket and be on my way.

Its not that I dont like incans, I just don't have any that are very powerful, or small...

And as far as runtime, I have seen maglights that can run for "100 hours", but barely notice them, Hmmmmm..........:thinking:

Its obvious that different lights have significantly different uses. IMHO


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## lctorana (Oct 3, 2007)

munkybiz_9881 said:


> ...I have seen maglights that can run for "100 hours"...


REALLY?
:thinking:
wow!


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## FASTCAR (Oct 3, 2007)

My Incan fling is over


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## djblank87 (Oct 4, 2007)

Overall, 

LED's = Bright light and good throw on some models with a long runtime.

Incans = Really bright light, decent runtime, super throw on some lights and ok runtime.

When telling people about the two I usally go with the following:

Incan's are like the big heavy-weight fighter that hits hard, great reach, looks great for 5 or 6 rounds but lacks stamina in the late rounds. 

LED's are like that middle-weight fighter with decent reach, dangerous power in a clinch and stamina to go all 12 rounds at the same speed.

They both have there up's and down's but in the future we should see an equal balance on both sides of the fence but of course they will both still have there big boys waiting in the wings to come out and play.

In my opinion of course.

Oh and also I would never say I know to much about lights and how they work and so on but has anyone ever known a Maglite to run for 100 hours? I personally I have not, 30 hours is about the most I have ever seen. Either that was a mistake or I really need to take another look at Mag's if this is true.


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## lctorana (Oct 4, 2007)

djblank87 said:


> ..has anyone ever known a Maglite to run for 100 hours? I personally I have not, 30 hours is about the most I have ever seen... ...need to take another look at Mag's if this is true.


 
That's really got me intrigued, too.


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## this_is_nascar (Oct 4, 2007)

This is a good thread. Over the last couple years, I've not only lost my compulsive obsession for LED lights, but flashlights in general. I was getting tired of the same type product being released by various vendors. When you come down to it, it's nothing more that an emitter and a power source (battery) with a casing holding it all together. There nothing really that sets lights apart from each other nowadays, so folks have turned to gimmics with their lighting products. I no longer have the time or interest to be be bothered. For me, my trusty Arc-P AAA rides with me whenever I'm dressed. I have another on my keychain. That's it, period. If I need more light, I turn to my 2xPila Stinger or stock Streamlight UltraStinger. This has been working fine for me over the last couple of years and I've saved thousands of dollars while I was at.


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## BSCOTT1504 (Oct 8, 2007)

I am just starting to appreciate the beauty and color rendition of the incan beam. 

I own several LED lights and just three quality incans, but that is about to change!


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## Ofelas (Oct 8, 2007)

Any other regulated incan out there aside from the A2?
Reason I ask - longer regulated output & a single CR123 light would be great for me, even if I have to drop down from the A2's 50 lumens down to 15 lumens or so.
Actually the E2E would be perfect for me if it was a regulated 3 hour unit at 15 lumens.


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## Patriot (Oct 9, 2007)

greenLED said:


> Interesting observation - I've noticed that too. I've been close to starting a thread on that particular topic a couple of times, but then I get sidetracked.


 
Me too. I first noticed the instant LED effect years ago after the inova x5 came out. I suppose the early ones were probably only about 15 lumens but caused me to see spots long after getting blasted by it. I think the relatively slow start-up of the incans gives the eyes a few extra micro-seconds to close down a bit...but I'm only speculating. I guess part of it could have to do with the wavelength of light too...not sure..


My LED and HID use far outweight my incan light use. I don't often think about it....but it seems to be working out that way lately. As these LEDs continue to get warmer in color tempurature, they'll probably grab the attention of even more flashoholics.


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## boosterboy (Oct 13, 2007)

i love depth perception, so I love my incandescents.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Oct 15, 2007)

"Any other regulated incan out there aside from the A2?"

I'd very much like to know this as well. I have a slew of LED lights, but am missing the color rendition. The A2 uses expensive CR123s, and doesn't run long enough. _Are_ there any really bright incans with super color rendition that run for, say, two hours?


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## lctorana (Oct 15, 2007)

I don't understand why you would want to regulate an incan. I mean, I don't see the advantage.

With the flat discharge curve of NiCads & NiMHs, provided you get the colour you want at 1.2V/cell, then the requirement is met, isn't it?


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## Ofelas (Oct 15, 2007)

> I'd very much like to know this as well. I have a slew of LED lights, but am missing the color rendition. The A2 uses expensive CR123s, and doesn't run long enough. _Are_ there any really bright incans with super color rendition that run for, say, two hours?


 
Basically any light that has Willie Hunt's LVR system; this includes a couple of Black Diamond headlamps.


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## Ofelas (Oct 15, 2007)

lctorana said:


> I don't understand why you would want to regulate an incan. I mean, I don't see the advantage.
> 
> With the flat discharge curve of NiCads & NiMHs, provided you get the colour you want at 1.2V/cell, then the requirement is met, isn't it?


 
The problem is that voltage starts dropping shortly after initial battery usage, regardless of the type of bulb used. 
Here's why -
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~willie/lvr.html#anchor00021

Then, read this FAQ (especially the first few paragraphs) -
http://www.candlepowerforums.com:80/vb/showthread.php?t=107943

Hope that helped!


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## lctorana (Oct 15, 2007)

Read my post again, carefully and slowly.

Than study the discharge curve of a NiCad cell closely.

Then have another read of my post. You'll then understand the question.


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## Ofelas (Oct 15, 2007)

lctorana said:


> Read my post again, carefully and slowly.
> 
> Than study the discharge curve of a NiCad cell closely.
> 
> Then have another read of my post. You'll then understand the question.


 
Hey I tried to be helpful, but I reckon that wasn't taken in the right spirit, so this should be more illuminating -

"Insert said NiCad cell into rear orifice, carefully and slowly.

Then study the discharge left behind closely.

Then have another look at the freshly removed NiCad cell. You'll then understand the answer."


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Oct 16, 2007)

_*Ew*_-ewwwww! :sick2:


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Oct 16, 2007)

Among bright incans, only Mag mods can run on 1.2V cells. The rest require 3V lithiums or 3.7V lithium-ions.



lctorana said:


> I don't understand why you would want to regulate an incan. I mean, I don't see the advantage.
> 
> With the flat discharge curve of NiCads & NiMHs, provided you get the colour you want at 1.2V/cell, then the requirement is met, isn't it?


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## sb_pete (Oct 18, 2007)

djblank87 said:


> When telling people about the two I usally go with the following:
> 
> Incan's are like the big heavy-weight fighter that hits hard, great reach, looks great for 5 or 6 rounds but lacks stamina in the late rounds.
> 
> ...



Sooo, HID lights are the welter-weights then right:thinking:


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## alanagnostic (Oct 18, 2007)

My LED fling is just beginning. I started off with incandescent lights because they "looked right". At first I didn't like the look of LEDs (the beams seemed "artificial"). Everthing changed when I got my first HDS EDC. I think the only incandescent I've bought since then was a Surefire E2 Winelight (mainly becuase it was a really good price). I still love the incans that I have, but I've moved over to the dark side (LEDs).


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## NoFair (Oct 18, 2007)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Power alone ain't worth poop without good color rendition. I do not carry an ican for brute power, most of my hiking incans are in the 50 lumen ballpark. And they all blow away my 160+ lumens LED lights when it comes to outdoor performance. I simply can see way better with an incan and it doesn't matter how much lumens the thing is putting out.



I have exactly the same experience. I use leds as utility lights and incans if I want to see something further away while outside. 

I'd guesstimate that I need at least 2-3 times the output to see the same amount of detail in a forest with a led compared to an incan.

Often I only need a few seconds of really bright light to look at something and the lower runtimes don't bother me at all. All my lights run on Li-ions anyway.. 

I mostly use a G2 with a 9V bulb and 2 Li-ions or a UF WF500 with a Welch Allyn bulb (very bright ).

In the winter the difference is less and leds work better. I ski at night using an updated PT Apex (Seoul led)

Sverre


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## Tritium (Oct 18, 2007)

The only incan I use is a 3D mag with a 100 watt lamp . Now THATS an Incan!
With LuxLuthors new battery pack I am illuminating 40 acres or more at a time. Need a bunch of LEDs to do that.

Thurmond


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## AvPD (Oct 19, 2007)

lctorana said:


> But eventually, really good ones will be made. Inevitably so.



Once the warm white power LEDS match the brightness of incandescents they will be obsolete. The one difference is that incandescents radiate their heat away from the torch whereas LEDS require some heatsinking (only an issue with upgrades).
Being a cheapskate I've avoided using incandescents for years due to their power consumption.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 26, 2008)

Reported.....ban this jewelry idiot/bot.


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## chuck4570 (Jun 27, 2008)

MARNAV1 said:


> I got rid of all my incans except for 1. Had to hang on to my A2. Wish I could find the FiveMega socket mod for one but I like the fact that it is regulated and the bulbs are pretty tough. Not too big either.



Funny thing is that I got rid of all my LED's except for 1. Had to hang on to my A2.

Chuck


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## knightrider (Jun 28, 2008)

Incans rule! Love my m6 so much! I'm drinking wine right now...:buddies:

My Leef body runn ing 3 18650s will destroy the darkness!~


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## Nitroz (Jun 28, 2008)

The Philips TFFC k2 solves the cool tint issue, too bad they are hard to come by. I will post some pictures later.


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## Fusion_m8 (Jun 28, 2008)

Just had to add my $0.02...

I think that LEDs and incands have their rightful places in society depending on the environment in which they are used.

Many CPFers who live in an ultra modern urban society where city living with good street lighting, headlights from cars, neon signs etc... give plenty of ambient light. Thus flashlight usage would be required for only the immediate to intermediate ranges. Most LED flashlights fit the bill perfectly due to their small size, efficiency and association with the latest technology.

For the rest who live in rural or semi-rural areas away from the hustle and bustle of city life, ambient light from street lighting, cars, neon signs etc... would be far less, thus incands with their extended throw, output and colour rendition would be superior to LEDs in lighting up distances in excess of 100ft or more. The superiority of a 3300K incandescent beam is even more so in rain, fog or dense forestation.

That being said, I'm quite selective in my flashlight usage according to the environment I'm using it in. Inside my home or walking around the neighbourhood, I'd be content using just my 5500K 100+ lumen LED lights. as incands would just be overkill.

When I'm in forestation, mud and snow or in foggy and rainy conditions, incands with 3300K, 200+lumens would be the course-du-jour. Typical LED lights struggle to cut it in those sorts of harsh outdoor conditions.

As a rule, I never have just ONE light with me. I believe in Murphy's Law and would thus carry about 2-3 lights with a mixture of LEDs and incands.

GOOD LUCK FAVOURS THE PREPARED


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## Fusion_m8 (Jun 28, 2008)

alanagnostic said:


> I still love the incans that I have, but I've moved over to the dark side (LEDs).



Ha Ha ... how can it be "dark" when you've got incand & LEDs flashlights???


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## Hitthespot (Jun 29, 2008)

I've noticed people who posted in this thread a year ago have for sure bought more LED lights. Not that it matters.:kiss:



My Incand see almost no use anymore.

Bill


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## Nitroz (Jun 29, 2008)

Here is shot of a modded gladius with K2 on the left vs Cree WC R2 on the right.






The camera was set to daylight and the K2 does have that color tint to it. I am thinking about removing this LED from the Gladius and placing it in a Mag where I can put the pedal to the medal and push it at 1.5 amps.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jun 18, 2009)

When this thread was first created, I am pretty sure it was before warm-tinted LEDs had taken CPF by storm. I am curious- have any of the people in this thread changed their mind since the introduction/popularity of 5A, 5B, 5C, etc?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 18, 2009)

LEDAdd1ct said:


> When this thread was first created, I am pretty sure it was before warm-tinted LEDs had taken CPF by storm. I am curious- have any of the people in this thread changed their mind since the introduction/popularity of 5A, 5B, 5C, etc?


Not me. Warm Tint does not equal true C.R.I and color depth.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jun 18, 2009)

Very true, and a fact frequently glossed over.


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## kelmo (Jun 18, 2009)

Since the 1st posting I have added the following to my collection, Turboheaded C3, M6, M2, E2e, and A2. 

About the only LEDs I added was an Aeon and Arc6. And in all honesty I am really impressed with my M60W. 

The lights I have been using the most these days are an E2e w/MN02 LA, A2, and M2.


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## dchao (Jun 18, 2009)

The day when our car headlights are all made from LED's, that's when incan will become history. :sigh: But we are not quite there yet.


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## blasterman (Jun 18, 2009)

> Warm Tint does not equal true C.R.I and color depth.


 
Warm and neutral tint LEDs almost always have higher CRIs than cooler tint LEDs, so I'm not sure what the complaint is.

The real question is if the lower color temps are really what's desired, or is it really the correspondingly higher CRIs that give them more appeal.



> The day when our car headlights are all made from LED's


 
The day when American car buyers stop buying over-sized vehicles and stop complaining about $4.00 gas will be the day we likely power flashlights with mini-fusion generators  The LED headlamp is actually less complicated and much brighter than halogen, but politics is more at fault then technology. Just shine your brightest flashlight through a cylindrical glass filled with water and note the near perfect horizontal beam spread. Yes...it's that easy.


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## lolzertank (Jun 18, 2009)

Warm and neutral tint LEDs still have lower CRIs than incans. Even the high CRI LEDs are lower, though they're good enough I'd consider them as a replacement for low lumen output applications. The only problem is that efficiency goes  with the High CRI LEDs, dropping to levels not hugely better than overdriven halogens (30 - 50%). Now let's not even talk about cooling...

Personally, I prefer 4000-5000K color temperatures, but the low CRI of normal power LEDs or low luminous flux of high CRI LEDs is keeping me away. High CRI (greater than 90) fluorescents are great though for room lighting.



blasterman said:


> Warm and neutral tint LEDs almost always have higher CRIs than cooler tint LEDs, so I'm not sure what the complaint is.
> 
> The real question is if the lower color temps are really what's desired, or is it really the correspondingly higher CRIs that give them more appeal.




LED flashlights are pretty nice. Long runtimes, lots of lumens, small size. But my 2D Garrity with a 6D Magnum Star driven of 2 18650s is way better outside.

Someday, I'll make a real hotwire... :devil: (The Garrity doesn't count. It's only 100+ lumens.)


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## bluepilgrim (Jun 18, 2009)

Well -- most of the time I need a light is walking down a 25 foot dark section of path to the garage, to feed the cats. My favorite light for that is a little incandescent I got at the dollar store. It's not even a 'real' light bulb but looks like one of those pigtail lamps for miniature Christmas tree lights, and it's very yellow: looks like it's operating on a lower voltage than designed for. It's light weight plastic -- not as sturdy as aluminum but it's easier to handle, and it has a slide switch on the barrel so it's easy to turn on. I don't NEED a lot of light to walk down the path, and if I want more for some reason I have my RC-N3 in my other pocket. I LIKE the color -- it's restful on the eyes and doesn't destroy my night vision. It's like a candle with a reflector that doesn't drip wax on my hand or blow out. 

If it breaks, I bought a few extra at a dollar each -- even came with some zinc chloride cells included. 

My computer desk lamp is now using a 15 watt incandescent, and I can see fine: it's like instead of things being 'lit' everything just glows a little (and yet all the colors can be seen). It's amazing how well the eyes adjust to lower light when they aren't blinded -- which bluer LED lights tend to do. 

I like LEDs, but comparing them to icandescent is like comparing bourbon to wine -- sort of alike, but not so much, really. Each in it's place.


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## KiwiMark (Jun 19, 2009)

I EDC LED lights because I get a lot of light for a small size and reasonable run time from small batteries. I also like LED lights for the ability to use low mode with OK colour.

I also have a few incans that are brighter and have better colour for certain tasks. My favourite is my Mag 2D ROP Low - good light output, good colour and 2 hours run time from 2 x 32600 Li-ion cells.

Which would I get rid of? Neither!

I like my LEDs for what they are good for and I like my incans for what they are good for - the right tool for the right job! If you want the versatility of variable output from <5 Lumen to more than 100 Lumen then LED is the clear winner. If you want high CRI and better illumination of greens & browns then incan is the winner. More light & less heat for more efficiency is done by the LED lights. 1000+ Lumen in a hand carried torch would generally only come from an incan.

Clearly Incan is better than LED and just as clearly LED is better than Incan - it just depends on what feature you are talking about or what use you are putting the torch to.


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## EV_007 (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm an incan guy at heart, so the newer warmer LEDs caught my attention. However, after comparing a few "warm" LEDs side by side, then turning on an incan next to them, they still look like LEDs trying to mimic incans, badly. The warmer LEDs look muddier or off color compared directly to the wide spectrum of the incans. The LEDs trying to look like incans kinda reminds me of kids putting blue tinted bulbs or shields over their halogen car lamps to fake the HID look. 

Warming phosphers on LEDs help, but not quite the full sprectrum of the bright incan. To the naked eye, the wamrer LEDs still look flat next to incans, although in two dimensional, limited gamma JPGs posted online, they look to be more neck and neck.

LEDs are making progress, but incans still have their place and are not dimming anytime soon. The efficiency and variable levels offered by LEDs are the biggest advantages to me over incans. The smoth unlimited power settings of the Surefire Titan and T1A come to mind.

I wish there were more regulated incans out there.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 19, 2009)

I have found more value to the incans because of the CRI and color depth that Outdoors Fanatic mentioned. That is still true.

However, as predicted, LED's are making dramatic gains in color bins and obvious efficiency. 

I will never get rid of my incans. There are too many applications where they and HID's still rule.

EV_007, apparently you have not been following the user programable regulated projects that are now available to give a new lease on incans.


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## Search (Jun 19, 2009)

I'm just tired of trying to use LEDs outdoors. 

The other day I was scanning a field with my TK10, which has a very white light, and the dew on the grass was all I could see.

LEDs and light colors = bright.
LEDs and darker colors = Where did the light go?

I'm getting an E2e to EDC and something else, not sure yet, to replace my higher powered lights for, high power light stuff.

However, my LEDs will have a special place as my Duty and Tactical lights as the extended runtime and strength is more important. They all have white lights but they just don't render every color like an incan does.

So for personal use, an incan will ALWAYS be my favorite now. For work use though, I have to go with my LEDs.

Not a big problem, but I sure do love seeing someone light up the outdoors with an incan.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jun 19, 2009)

Search said:


> I'm just tired of trying to use LEDs outdoors.
> 
> The other day I was scanning a field with my TK10, which has a very white light, and the dew on the grass was all I could see.
> 
> ...



I urge you to try an L-Mini II 5C on high and see if your perspective changes.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 19, 2009)

Wow, who dug this thread back from grave?

I too started from LED & some how moved back-wards to incans. Just I realize that the last 5 lights I built, 4 of them are Incans.

It's much harder to build led to surpass the 7-900 lm P7 level,
I f**d up my latest LED build with triple P7,  one P7 & abandoned 
the project. Where the Mag 1185, ROP Hi are all low cost >1000 lm easy builds, over diven white lights with high CRI. 

For brief 10 sec that I had my triple P7, I was not impressed as triple emitter forced you to use 3x small reflectors,
which will kill the throw no matter what you do. I prob. won't try multi emitter build gain.

So the higher out-put/cost ratio on >1000lm incans is really the reason that converted me for the time being. 

However, this may not be for long, as the 2500 LM single die lED is just around the corner & it may very well turn the tide again, I might have to kill my beloved Kelite ROP & steal the body to convert to *the SST-90 LED*:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/224644


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 19, 2009)

That is an interesting but after reading all posts in that thread, besides limited availability, I don't think it is practical for hand held. Again the issue in selecting the correct light for your purpose is not just a matter of total lumens. It includes the CRI, color depth, beam shape/focus and a multitude of other factors.


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## burntoshine (Jun 20, 2009)

this is interesting. i didn't know there was a community of flashlight folk that prefer incandescents over leds. i'm fairly new to CPF, so forgive my ignorance. i'm strictly a led man myself. personally i think you all are crazy! ...i'm totally just kidding. no, but seriously, everyone has their own preference. i hope no one gets the old ford/chevy attitude up in here. 

i actually have a real question though. i bought the mag led upgrade for my mag 3D and that suits us just fine. i've been wondering what to do with my mag 6D. i hate the yellow light it puts out. is there a better bulb i can use? someone had mentioned something earlier (a few years ago, haha) in this thread about a crystal bulb or something in his maglite. i'd prefer it put out a white light. any suggestions?? something that will work in the 6D.

thanks


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## bluepilgrim (Jun 20, 2009)

There are various LEDs for a 6d, but the first thing I'd try is a Xenon bulb -- I got one at the local hardware store for my 5D for 3 or 4 bucks and it makes a big difference. It's quite white -- compared to a LED -- but I like it (especially for the price).


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## KiwiMark (Jun 20, 2009)

burntoshine said:


> i actually have a real question though. i bought the mag led upgrade for my mag 3D and that suits us just fine. i've been wondering what to do with my mag 6D. i hate the yellow light it puts out. is there a better bulb i can use? someone had mentioned something earlier (a few years ago, haha) in this thread about a crystal bulb or something in his maglite. i'd prefer it put out a white light. any suggestions?? something that will work in the 6D.



Standard Maglite bulbs are pretty rubbish - I use a Pelican 3854-H bulb in mine (know here as a ROP High).
You can get a pair (one high (24W) and one low (11W) bulb) of 3854 bulbs for $8 from here:
http://www.batterystation.com/flashlight_lamps.htm
The high bulb is really bright, but draws a lot of current - you would need to be using Ni-Cd or NiMH cells to power it. An aluminium reflector and a glass lens would also be a good idea.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 20, 2009)

LuxLuthor said:


> That is an interesting but after reading all posts in that thread, besides limited availability, I don't think it is practical for hand held. Again the issue in selecting the correct light for your purpose is not just a matter of total lumens. It includes the CRI, color depth, beam shape/focus and a multitude of other factors.


LEDs can be as bright as incans, but it turns everything into a ghost movie...


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## dchao (Jun 20, 2009)

Also -

warmer light (reds) has better ability to penetrate atmosphere and fog. Regular white LED made from blue LED and yellow phosphor has limited ability to penetrate fog.


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## Fulgeo (Jun 20, 2009)

Hey guys wanted to share a story with you. Late last night here Michigan we had a major lighting storm roll thru. I got the dreaded 2:00 AM alarm company call about major breach of security, multiple zone trips. Probably false alarm but multiple zones was troublesome. I wanted to take a 3D Maglite with me and had many mods to choose from. It ended up boiling down to either my P7 mod or one of my Mag85s. Went with the Mag85 and was not disappointed. Run time (35+ mins vs 3.5+ hours) was not an issue. I felt that the amount of humidity in the air would offset the P7's performance. I do like the P7 for long night walks mind you but when push comes to shove I took the Mag85. Btw it was a false alarm.

As a side note wanted to say I like having a 3D Maglite in my hands on a late night walk. It makes a decent melee weapon. Can not tell you the amount of times I almost get attacked by a dog only to find out that Fido is just showing off that he has a wireless fence.

Happy mods!


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## burntoshine (Jun 20, 2009)

bluepilgrim said:


> There are various LEDs for a 6d, but the first thing I'd try is a Xenon bulb -- I got one at the local hardware store for my 5D for 3 or 4 bucks and it makes a big difference. It's quite white -- compared to a LED -- but I like it (especially for the price).





KiwiMark said:


> Standard Maglite bulbs are pretty rubbish - I use a Pelican 3854-H bulb in mine (know here as a ROP High).
> You can get a pair (one high (24W) and one low (11W) bulb) of 3854 bulbs for $8 from here:
> http://www.batterystation.com/flashlight_lamps.htm
> The high bulb is really bright, but draws a lot of current - you would need to be using Ni-Cd or NiMH cells to power it. An aluminium reflector and a glass lens would also be a good idea.



thank you much for the responses! i think i will definitely get the aluminum reflector and glass lens; good idea! first, it's bulb replacement time. i think i'm going to try a xenon first and then i'm going to try one of the pelicans. i also have my eye on this guy. i'm going to try them all and see what i like best. 

this 6D has been sitting around collecting dust and it's about time i had some fun with it!

is it easy to find the aluminum reflector and glass lens?


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## bluepilgrim (Jun 20, 2009)

You won't need the lens and reflector for low heat like the xenon or terralux, other wise chack http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114375 for a start.

PS -- also https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/120462


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## Stress_Test (Jul 2, 2009)

Just FYI, Cree is starting to use the red/white LED mix in their light fixtures. See the page here for an example http://www.creeledlighting.com/lr24.htm

I've seen these in action and they do produce really nice looking light. Note the high CRI also (92).

By the way, what's the CRI for an incandescent light?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 2, 2009)

Stress_Test said:


> Just FYI, Cree is starting to use the red/white LED mix in their light fixtures. See the page here for an example http://www.creeledlighting.com/lr24.htm
> 
> I've seen these in action and they do produce really nice looking light. Note the high CRI also (92).
> 
> By the way, what's the CRI for an incandescent light?


Very close to 100.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 3, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Very close to 100.



Noon day sun at 5500K, also has 100 CRI, but does not have the red/yellow highlights of an incan with a color temp of 3400K or so. 92% from an LED seems like a good compromise. I do like to use an incan at night for its good contrast, compared to an LED, but have never used a 92 Cree LED at night.

Bill


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 3, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Noon day sun at 5500K, also has 100 CRI, but does not have the red/yellow highlights of an incan with a color temp of 3400K or so. 92% from an LED seems like a good compromise. I do like to use an incan at night for its good contrast, compared to an LED, but have never used a 92 Cree LED at night.
> 
> Bill


Color temperature and CRI are very different animals...


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## dchao (Jul 3, 2009)

A lower CRI will also affect different people differently. For example, I have a mild color-blindness, so with lack of reds from white LED's, I am having hard time distinguish between all shades of red, some very darker reds appear as blacks to me. That's why I don't like white LED for outdoor use. Indoor, under close range, that's less a problem.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 3, 2009)

I don't do a lot of woods or fields searching.

I do often get home after dark and shine my P2D or other EDC light around the property.

As long as the LED I'm using does not have significant Blue in the tint I'm way cool with LEDs.

Let's see something the size of my P2D in incandescent that will stay as bright as long.

I feel guilty when I use incands. EATING up those batteries you know.

Neutral LEDs are for me!

I even have some greenish tinted stuff that rocks.

I MAY put my Magcharger back as 1160 incan as the three Cree module in it tends quite blueish. It is MIGHTY bright however.


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## 325addict (Jul 3, 2009)

We *all* know, that incans have their limitations:

1. they suck your batteries like wild,
2. they have a limited life, even when _not_ beaten,
3. if beaten when on, they are likely to go  immediately.

Despite all these limitations, I nearly only use incans. Although I have some very fine LED lights ( SF L1 Lumamax, Fenix P1D, Wolf Eyes Sniper MC-E) I am using my SF C2 and C3, and 9AN much more. Even the good old MagCharger can be found quite often in my hands....
That is, because of the un-usable color of the light most LEDs have. I simply HATE that harsh, blueish tint, especially when in the woods or when camping.

LEDs have two major advantages in my point of view:
1. when equipped with multiple outputs, you can yourself set the runtime and light output,
2. they will live forever! When you drop it (even when on) it will survive.

Bottom line: when I'm out for a job where I definitely need a good flashlight, my primary is an incan (with lots of extra batteries...) and my backup is a small LED-light. The P1D and the L1 come to my mind then.

I always carry a Fenix AAA light, well I CARRIED it actually.... now, with kind regards from the alkaline AAA that was in it, it has been ruined :naughty:
I ordered several(!) E1Es and one of these will be modded with a LF HO-lamp, the other will stay the way it left the factory, the third will stay at my work.... One of these will become my new EDC!

Timmo.


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## RichS (Jul 3, 2009)

325addict said:


> We *all* know, that incans have their limitations:
> 
> 1. they suck your batteries like wild,
> 2. they have a limited life, even when _not_ beaten,
> 3. if beaten when on, they are likely to go  immediately.


Not anymore - the innovation of people on this forum has helped to resolve these issues. Have you seen AWs soft starters with multi-levels for incans? I have one for my Mag85, and two for each of my Surefire/ Leef incans. With these you can run your light on 30%, 60% or 100% depending on how much runtime/light you need. The soft-starter greatly increases bulb-life and virtually eliminates potential  from over-driving the bulb. And with FM's D26 reflector's built in spare bulb holders, you can just swap in another affordable bi-pin bulb when needed. I also carry a spare 1185 in my Mag 3C tailcap.

That's the great thing about this forum. People that want to use the great light of an incan can use the innovation of CPF'rs to overcome most of the typical limitations. :twothumbs


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 3, 2009)

Forgot to say something as small as P2D that will also get 4 levels of bright and SOS and Strobe modes. (last two I never use).


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## KiwiMark (Jul 3, 2009)

RichS said:


> Not anymore - the innovation of people on this forum has helped to resolve these issues.



Improvements have been made - but no incan will do 2 Lumen & 200 Lumen like a LED can. The incan will be very orange at 10% of the maximum output and can't really do the job at 1%.

I love my ROP Low and it has as good or better run time than my LED torches on maximum. But it is a Mag2D which is much bigger & heavier than my LED lights. For EDC I would rather have the smaller size and better efficiency of my LED lights. Around home I usually grab one of my ROP Mags. When I go camping I take a ROP and some LEDs - I use whichever suits my requirements. 

Anyone that thinks LEDs are useless or that incans have outlived their usefulness are very wrong. Both are great and each will have a place for a while yet. What is best is to have both available and to use whichever suits the task required.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 4, 2009)

325addict said:


> Despite all these limitations, I nearly only use incans. ...because of the un-usable color of the light most LEDs have. O simply HATE that harsh, blueish tint, especially when in the woods or when camping.


If blue is what's keeping you from LEDs you should check out some of the warm tints available now! 

You may very well still prefer incan to LED, even with the newer tints but I also think you might just find yourself spending a bit more time with them. 

I'm one who went with LED mainly out of expediency at first, hating the short life of batteries and such that I got with incans, but also hating the cold, lifeless light coming from my LED lights. Now that I have some lights with beautiful neutral white or incan-like tints I find myself completely fascinated and looking for more!


RichS said:


> Have you seen AWs soft starters with multi-levels for incans? I have one for my Mag85, and two for each of my Surefire/ Leef incans. With these you can run your light on 30%, 60% or 100% depending on how much runtime/light you need. The soft-starter greatly increases bulb-life and virtually eliminates potential  from over-driving the bulb. And with FM's D26 reflector's built in spare bulb holders, you can just swap in another affordable bi-pin bulb when needed. I also carry a spare 1185 in my Mag 3C tailcap.
> 
> That's the great thing about this forum. People that want to use the great light of an incan can use the innovation of CPF'rs to overcome most of the typical limitations. :twothumbs


Is there one available I could put on my E1e? 


KiwiMark said:


> Anyone that thinks LEDs are useless or that incans have outlived their usefulness are very wrong. Both are great and each will have a place for a while yet. What is best is to have both available and to use whichever suits the task required.


Well said! :twothumbs


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## 325addict (Jul 5, 2009)

@ RichS:

first of all, with an incan being dimmed, the already low efficiency is even further lowered. So if I need less light, I simply switch to a low-power incan. I still have lots of Maglite AAA and AA lights here 

With limited life, I simply mean that even if they are treated well, they still have a limited life. There's no denying that a LED is superior here, with 50.000 hours life instead of a meager 15....100 hours.

Of course, when overpowering an incan (which I don't do) a softstarter will greatly help preventing instaflashes and other <POOFS> :thumbsup:

But don't get me wrong, it may sound that I'm quite negative about incans, which I'm definitely not! I'm just saying, that _despite_ these drawbacks, I _still_ keep on using them, just because the fantastic light they produce....

The ones I keep on using most are the C2 and C3 Centurion. And in my bedroom, I always have a 9AN Commander ready, because of the fine floody low-beam it has :tired:
When getting awake and still sleepy, you don't want to switch on that C3 or a Wolf Eyes M90 rattlesnake with 13V setup 

Timmo.


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## 325addict (Jul 5, 2009)

@ Kaichu Dento:

I found a wonderful D26 dropin on DX.... with a very, very good color of the light. It is, in fact, SOO close to an incan, I had to turn one on next to this LED to see the (small) difference :thinking:
My colleagues had the same. "This is an incan, hmmm?? No, this is a LED!"

Note that this one is way less bright than a Q5 or R2 drawing the same current.... When I remember right, it was about 100 Lumens on its highest setting (drawing more than 500mA @ 7,4V)

It is good for close-up work and a little more with it's spot-like beam pattern. Hardly usable for lighting up larger area's, where incans tend to rule (in a direct comparison with a P90, this just seemed unfair to the LED!)

The first truly good steps have been taken by the LED manufacturers. If they now can rise the efficiency of this particular LED to R2-levels, I'm into LEDs more.... imagine an MC-E with good color rendition like this DX-dropin has... with the brightness the actual MC-E has! I WANT ONE 


Timmo.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 5, 2009)

325addict said:


> @ Kaichu Dento:
> 
> I found a wonderful D26 dropin on DX.... with a very, very good color of the light. It is, in fact, SOO close to an incan, I had to turn one on next to this LED to see the (small) difference :thinking:
> My colleagues had the same. "This is an incan, hmmm?? No, this is a LED!"
> ...


I'm pretty thrilled with the newer tints coming out and just after reading your post I took my 7A modded Conexxion and did some comparison with my E1e's, and it looked more incan-like than either of them! Can't help but love all three of them, but I am really curious about you mention of incans superiority in lighting larger areas and can't wait for August to get here so I can have some night to do more outdoor comparisons!


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## Superdave (Jul 5, 2009)

I ended up going back to incan as well.. I went to the carlsbad caverns a couple weeks ago and packed my Z3/KT2/MN16 and my U2A. I started off with the U2 but switched to the Z3 pretty quick. It was fun aggravating people with their little maglites. 

Although my son was disappointed when i showed him that "bottomless pits" aren't bottomless..


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## xenonk (Jul 5, 2009)

I've started gravitating towards warm-tint/high-CRI LEDs. The new Q4-5B bin Crees have a warm yellowish tint and the high-CRI SSCs are also nice at 93 CRI. They're not quite as efficient as the higher-binned cool white emitters, but they're still efficient LEDs.

That said I still keep a couple of incans, because sometimes you really want that last 7 CRI.


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## 325addict (Jul 5, 2009)

I already did some testing last winter. I took no less than 8 flashlights into the woods to check their performance there.

1. a Maglite AA (not even a year ago my standard!)
2. a MagCharger
3. an Ultrafire WF-501B (with 7.4V / 1.3A lamp!)
4. a Surefire L1 LumaMax
5. a Surefire C3 Centurion with P90
6. a Wolf Eyes M90 Rattlesnake, in standard 7,2V setup
7. a Fenix P1D
8. a Mag 3D with 4V / 0.85A Halogen bulb (3X NiMH 8Ah in it)

You may guess, the Mag AA and Mag 3D just were not powerful enough....

The L1 is completely at the wrong place in the woods: it has virtually NO spill (this is what I meant, incans light up a larger area)

The MagCharger was really nice! Just like the Ultrafire(!) and the C3.

The surprise was this stupidly bright-for-its-size P1D  This one HAS some spill, and was quite usable, although it has a very wrong color for in the woods. You really think, you have landed in a black/white area....

The winner however, was the M90 Rattlesnake. Already the standard-setup will blow away the C3 and the like. A wall of light will be yours :thumbsup:

Can't wait to have another test, I have a 13V setup in it now, and on the LED front some news is to be tested: a Wolf Eyes MC-E sniper!! I can say: this little baby is B R I G H T ! And it has a fairly wide hotspot (I like that!) due to the four-die LED. Without question, this is the best LED-light I have in my collection at the moment....


Timmo.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 5, 2009)

I have an Ultrafire light with an MC-E that is pretty neutral with a hint of green.

I'm tempted to say this is my best LED light.

Just a little too big to EDC however....


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 5, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Power alone ain't worth poop without good color rendition. I do not carry an ican for brute power, most of my hiking incans are in the 50 lumen ballpark. And they all blow away my 160+ lumens LED lights when it comes to outdoor performance. I simply can see way better with an incan and it doesn't matter how much lumens the thing is putting out.



I can see fine with any of my led lights


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 6, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> I can see fine with any of my led lights


I can see fine with any type of light emitting source as well, but I just prefer the visual quality and comfort provided my incandescent light sources. Not to mention throw, the ability to cut through fog and to overcome ambient light...


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 6, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I can see fine with any type of light emitting source as well, but I just prefer the visual quality and comfort provided my incandescent light sources. Not to mention throw, the ability to cut through fog and to overcome ambient light...


yeah ok each to their own but I have a sunlite 16WFP which throws as well as incan and almost matches the colour rendition I'm happy


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