# Maha vs LaCrosse charger question



## guiri (Feb 16, 2010)

Guys, I have a LaCrosse BC-900 with travel bag, C and D adapters and all that and it's unopened with the box.

I was going to sell it because I just read about the meltdowns but before I did, I had a couple of questions.

I do have an eneloop power pack with the c and d adapters too by the way.

Should I sell this and get a Maha instead?

Does the Maha charge both AA and AAA's and is it easy to use?

Should I go with the 8 bay charger instead? I mean, is it the same as the 4 bay just bigger?

Thanks

George


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## Bones (Feb 16, 2010)

The Sanyo bundled with the Eneloop power pack is the NC-MQN06U. It's a pairs charger, but it's also very well made with exceptional fit and finish. It's also essentially a free offering.

The 8 cell Maha chargers only have two modes, charge and refresh. While they're one step up from a basic charger, they lack the MH-C9000's finer charging, analysis and conditioning settings and modes.

Accordingly, I recommend that you keep the Eneloop power pack and add an MH-C9000. That way, you'll be able to take advantage of all the additional features of the MH-C9000 since you'll have the MQN06U for overflow (and travel) duties.


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## guiri (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok, so sell the LaCrosse and NOT get the 8 bay charger then?


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## HKJ (Feb 17, 2010)

guiri said:


> Ok, so sell the LaCrosse and NOT get the 8 bay charger then?



The 8 bay charger is very useful, if you just need to put some energy into a lot of batteries. The 9000 is used when you want more information about you batteries, find old batteries, match capacity etc.
I have both and use the 8 bay charge most of the time.


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## guiri (Feb 17, 2010)

Well, I need to get rid of stuff as I have a houseful of crap and I really only need ONE charger. I don't do so much stuff that I have to have an 8 bay charger. I was just going for it because it does it all AND takes 8 batteries. However, I have a radio shack charger that does D batteries that I can keep if I have to 'cause I assume the smaller charger doesn't do D batteries?

Not sure if I'm smart enough to get use of the smaller Maha though but it would be good to have something that does everything you just mentioned I guess.


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## keeftea (Feb 18, 2010)

HKJ said:


> The 8 bay charger is very useful, if you just need to put some energy into a lot of batteries. The 9000 is used when you want more information about you batteries, find old batteries, match capacity etc.
> I have both and use the 8 bay charge most of the time.



My set up exactly maha 801D came first and then the eeehem sickness and the C-9000. 

If you are going to get one make it the C-9000.


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## guiri (Feb 18, 2010)

..but the 9000 does the same thing as the LaCrosse does, right?


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## digitor (Feb 18, 2010)

guiri said:


> ..but the 9000 does the same thing as the LaCrosse does, right?



Not quite the same - it doesn't melt down, for instance... 

Cheers


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## bighest (Feb 18, 2010)

guiri said:


> ..but the 9000 does the same thing as the LaCrosse does, right?



Not sure what the Lacrosse does but i have the maha 9000 and work like a dream you can charge and discharge at rate you choose, doe cycle charges to get your batteries performing again and it also tells you what MAH your battery are putting out once you Analyse mode.

Its a great charger.


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## Russel (Feb 18, 2010)

In a very basic sense, yes the La Crosse BC-900 and the Maha MH-C9000 do the same thing: charge AA and AAA nimh and nicad batteries. I use both chargers, but prefer the MH-C9000. 


The C9000 has a break-in mode that is very useful for forming new batteries and keeping the in good condition. Also, the C-9000 employs a rest period between charge and discharge that results in what I consider a more accurate method of measuring battery capacity. The C9000 cell bays are spaced apart more than the BC-900 allowing better convection cooling of the batteries as they charge and discharge. Also, the C-9000 will operate off of an external 12VDC power supply. 


Link to MH-C9000 manual:
http://www.mahaenergy.com/download/mhc9000.pdf


Link to BC-900 manual:
http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/900/manual.pdf


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## guiri (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks everyone except digitor, I'm gonna hafta talk to his mom about his behavior :nana:


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## Apollo Cree (Feb 18, 2010)

My impression is that people really love their LaCrosse chargers unless/until they have a meltdown or some other failure.


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## guiri (Feb 19, 2010)

..and of course, I have no idea if mine's good or bad but I'm trying to establish if a Maha is a better choice 'cause if so, now's a good time to switch, while mine is still unused and all that.


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## MarioJP (Feb 19, 2010)

I personally like the La Crosse. I think this charger is good. The meltdowns probably resulted by the ac adapter. I can't really say about the maha c9000 as I never owned one. I know its a good charger but the la crosse is more flexible. If it wasn't it for the meltdowns the maha would of have a good competitor.

I know what you guys thinking that I am probably crazy for continuing to use this charger. But the fact is that I owned both of these chargers and not both have failed on me.

I just hope the melting problem gets resolved and gets put back on stock.

With that being said I still prefer the la crosse over the maha.


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## guiri (Feb 19, 2010)

So, why is the lacrosse more flexible?


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## Russel (Feb 19, 2010)

Huh, I use both the BC-900 and the C-9000 and I consider the Maha C-9000 more flexible. The only exception, I think, is the fact that the C-9000 will reject cells with excessively high internal resistance where the BC-900 will charge them without complaint. Of course, this is a good thing. If the internal resistance is so high the the C-9000 rejects it, it's time to recycle the cell anyway.


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## Russel (Feb 19, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> My impression is that people really love their LaCrosse chargers unless/until they have a meltdown or some other failure.


 
I've charged dozens of cells with my LaCrosse BC-900...no problems...I still love the little charger.

[holding my index finger over my mouth] Shhhhhhhh...

Don't let my BC-900 know, I love my Maha MH-C9000 charger more.

Kidding aside, I tend to use the C9000 for AA cells and the BC-900 (and BC-700) for charging AAA cells.


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## guiri (Feb 19, 2010)

Well, I guess I'll keep it 'cause frankly, I don't have the brains or knowledge to know when the hell to use all the features. Thanks all

George


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## digitor (Feb 19, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> I personally like the La Crosse



So you keep saying, again and again 


MarioJP said:


> I can't really say about the maha c9000 as I never owned one.
> ...........
> But the fact is that I owned both of these chargers and not both have failed on me.


Huh? I'm not quite sure what you're saying here?



MarioJP said:


> With that being said I still prefer the la crosse over the maha.



But as you said above


MarioJP said:


> I can't really say about the maha c9000 as I never owned one.


So what do you base this conclusion on? 

Cheers


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## Conan (Feb 19, 2010)

digitor said:


> So you keep saying, again and again
> 
> Huh? I'm not quite sure what you're saying here?
> 
> ...



Basically he's in love with La Crosse and he disses the Maha based on speculation from internet reviews. He also loves repeating posts, over and over and over...


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## MarioJP (Feb 19, 2010)

Well its true what else is there to say. I am just saying that why i am not affected as I bought it at a certain date before they switched power supplies and all of sudden failures started happen??. Just does not add up. Say what you want but just give it time. 

And no i don't dislike the Mahaa just that its bulky and not as flexible as in rejecting cells. In fact I got tired of chargers that always refuse to charge cells even though they can still be used in low drain devices.

That is what i do not like. The La crosse does not do that. I had cells that were crappy to use on high drain devices but not crappy enough to throw them away which most chargers refused to charge.


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## Russel (Feb 19, 2010)

Before I learned better, I used my BC-900 to charge nimh cells that were rejected by my C-9000. I found that the cells tended to get hot while charging, no surprise considering the high internal resistance. But, more importantly for me, I discovered that you never knew when the cell was going to fail completely, in a low draw application or not. I finally decided to use only good quality cells and have been much happier since. I have become a firm believer in recycling cells with high internal resistance and/or degraded capacity. Why use a advanced charger to charge poor quality cells? When I think about it, it makes more sense to me to use only good quality cells even if you are using a very basic charger. I can depend on reliable, repeatable performance with good quality cells.


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## MarioJP (Feb 19, 2010)

Regular NiMh that i can see. But LSD cells are different when the cells develop high internal resistance. Because it is a LSD cell they are not totally crappy cells, but the internal resistance is high enough to the point of rejection, and not a point of failure lol. Holds true with regular NiMh cells till this day. But LSD cells pretty much changed of when to call it quits.

so much of the 1000-1500 cycles if your charger refuse to charge now huh .


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## Russel (Feb 19, 2010)

That's interesting. I have never had a LSD cell develop high internal resistance. Some of the non-LSD cells that I have owned had high internal resistance from day one. Those cells got recycled.


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## MarioJP (Feb 19, 2010)

Russel said:


> That's interesting. I have never had a LSD cell develop high internal resistance. Some of the non-LSD cells that I have owned had high internal resistance from day one. Those cells got recycled.



Apparently they do. I had 4 pre charged duracells that got recycled which admittedly got thrashed by the 15 minute charger. Even after that abuse it refused to charge on a lot of chargers but the cells were still useful in fact the la crosse extended the cells for 2 more years that at this point my other old chargers just refused to charge them.

I end up recycling once the 2 years were up due to dents after couple of drops and eventually reduced capacity. But the self discharge was very slow. when charged they would still hold their charge even after all that abuse.

So they do develop high internal resistance just very very slowly. In fact if treated right might take a very long time before you start to see any performance drop.

LSD cells are the future of nimh lol.


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## guiri (Feb 19, 2010)

Well, since I have no idea about what most of you guys are talking about and I don't see myself taking the time (or having the knowledge) to keep track of good and bad cells, I guess I'll just keep my lacrosse and start charging then.

Will it do eneloops?


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## Russel (Feb 19, 2010)

I apologise for taking your thread off topic.

The BC-900 charges Eneloop cells just fine. I prefer to charge AA cells in pairs at 1500ma and AAA cells four at a time at 500ma with my BC-900.


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## guiri (Feb 19, 2010)

Nah, you didn't take it off topic, it's all related and I'm not sensitive to stuff like that 

George


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## MarioJP (Feb 19, 2010)

I even use my la crosse to discharge ni-zn cells to see what capacity they are.


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## Russel (Feb 19, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> I even use my la crosse to discharge ni-zn cells to see what capacity they are.


 
I am surprised that you use your LaCrosse to charge them as well:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3283486&postcount=13

I don't think that is advisable.


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## Conan (Feb 19, 2010)

Russel said:


> I am surprised that you use your LaCrosse to charge them as well:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3283486&postcount=13
> 
> I don't think that is advisable.



It's not advisable and I hope no one else tries to do it!


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## TakeTheActive (Feb 19, 2010)

*MarioJP*,

I don't know if you realize that you're doing it or not, but you tend to REPEAT the SAME questions and statements, usually in the SAME thread, over-and-over. :tired: I've kidded you about it at least once, and others are kidding you about it today.  Personally I find it both frustrating and annoying :hairpull: and thus, until now, I purposely chose NOT to reply.

This forum is meant to be a friendly place and personal attacks are frowned upon.
:whoopin:
*This post is intended as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.*
>And I've INTENTIONALLY used an EXCESSIVE number of SMILIES, formatting, etc... to convey that purpose.
If, in the future, you continue in your current ways and you discover that you're posts are being ignored (at least by me), maybe you'll hopefully now understand a possible reason why.<
:grouphug: :buddies: :grouphug:​


MarioJP said:


> *I personally like the La Crosse. I think* this charger is good...


Yes, we know. You've said that before. IMHO, stating WHICH La Crosse you like - BC-700, BC-900 or BC-9009 - would benefit Newbies reading your posts. IMO, Newbies reading the *Amazon La Crosse BC-9009 Reviews* would / SHOULD be *TOTALLY* confused since Amazon MERGED the *GOOD BC-900 Reviews* with the *BAD BC-9009 Reviews*. 

IMO, the *La Crosse*:
*BC-700* is OK.
It's better than a FIXED Charge Rate and/or SERIES, non-display charger such as the Duracell CEF23 or Sanyo MQN06.
It has ANALYZER capabilities.

*BC-900 and BC-9009 (with NEW AC Adapter)* is BETTER.
It's better than the BC-700 because it can charge GE 1400mAh cells @ GE 0.5-1.0C.
It has ANALYZER capabilities.

*BC-700/BC-900/BC-9009 are *ALL* INFERIOR to the Maha MH-C9000 because* (in no specific order):
They have no BREAK-IN function
Their Charge Rate is directly tied to their Discharge Rate (2:1)
They have a limited number of Charge (and thus Discharge) Rates:
*La Crosse BC-900*
*Maha MH-C9000*

Over a Charge Rate of 1000mA:
They can only charge 2 cells
They have no Discharge function

Their cell spacing is too close, not allowing sufficient air circulation
Their component specifications are too '_tight_' (i.e. close to the maximum recommended limits), forcing the MOSFETs to operate too hot when charging 4 2000mAh AA cells @ 1000mA
Their warranty is shorter
TBD... 




MarioJP said:


> ...*The meltdowns probably resulted by the ac adapter*...


Probably?  :thinking:

Combining *jtr1962's* 2006 '*Transformer Experiment*' results (*BC-900 power supply discovery*) with the La Crosse Feb 2010 announcement (*La Crosse BC-700/BC-900/BC-9009 Charger 'Meltdown' - La Crosse Responded*), it's pretty much a '*Done Deal*' in my book.



MarioJP said:


> ...I can't really say about *the maha c9000 as I never owned one*. I know its a good charger but *the la crosse is more flexible*...


IMO, UNTIL you use / own a C9000, you cannot provide a valid comparison - *Subjective vs Objective* - you're stating your *feelings* (i.e. In your opinion, the La Crosse is more flexible - IMO, it's not.). I like Chocolate Mint Ice Cream and my Dad likes Vanilla. IIRC, my late Mom liked Vanilla/Chocolate/Strawberry; or was it Butter Pecan? :thinking: Whatever flavor it was, she *LOVED* ice cream (and had the figure to prove it!  I digress...)



MarioJP said:


> ...*If it wasn't it for the meltdowns the maha would of have a good competitor*...


I disagree. Since I own both a *2006 La Crosse BC-900 v33* and a *2009 Maha MH-C9000 0H0AA*, I *feel* qualified to state that, *IMHO*, the *C9000 is like a Lincoln Town Car* and the *BC-900 is like a Ford Crown Victoria / Mercury Grand Marquis*. They both charge AA and AAA NiMHs and NiCDs, but the C9000 is just a better product. The Maha C9000 is in a class by itself, *IMHO*. :twothumbs



MarioJP said:


> ...I know what *you guys thinking that I am probably crazy* for continuing to use this charger. But *the fact is that I owned both of these chargers* and *not both have failed on me*...


I don't think that you're crazy  for continuing to use a NON-RECALLED AC Adapter with a BC-900 and/or BC-9009 charger. Neither of your chargers have failed on you YET because you don't have any of the defective BC-9009 "IV" AC Adapters. This has been explained to you more than once. That said, *IMO, continued, unattended use of *ANY* BC-900 and/or BC-9009 to charge 4 AA cells @ 1000mA is not recommended*.  :tsk: 

On the other hand, I do personally feel that *MANY* of your posts are '_annoying_'  with the CONSTANT REPETITIONS  of certain questions and statements. :sigh:



MarioJP said:


> ...*I just hope the melting problem gets resolved* and gets put back on stock...


The melting problem HAS been resolved - the defective BC-9009 "IV" AC Adapters are being replaced. Now we're all waiting to see how long it takes for some major distributors (i.e. *Amazon* and *Thomas Distributing*) to advertise them "For Sale"   again.
​


MarioJP said:


> ...With that being said *I still prefer the la crosse over the maha*.


Having never owned or used a C9000, how can you positively know that to be true? :shrug:



Russel said:


> ...*I use both the BC-900 and the C-9000 and I consider the Maha C-9000 more flexible.* The only exception, I think, is the fact that the C-9000 will reject cells with excessively high internal resistance where the BC-900 will charge them without complaint. Of course, this is a good thing. If the internal resistance is so high the the C-9000 rejects it, it's time to recycle the cell anyway.


IMO, *Russel* arrived here on CPF as I did - technically capable, but lacking knowledge of the finer details of rechargeable cell use and maintenance. Once you learn the 'Nuts-and-Bolts', you easily see how both the BC-900 and C9000 can fit into the larger scheme of things and use each appropriately for their individual strengths.



Conan said:


> *Basically he's in love with La Crosse* and he disses the Maha based on speculation from internet reviews. *He also loves repeating posts, over and over and over...*


 :shrug: :sigh:
​


MarioJP said:


> ...I am just saying that why *i am not affected as I bought it at a certain date before they switched power supplies* and *all of sudden failures started happen??. Just does not add up...*


*La Crosse changed the vendor for the BC-9009 AC Adapter on (or before) October 1, 2009 and the output voltage was 0.2VDC too high*, compared to the BC-900 AC Adapter. 

What doesn't add up? It's 'Black-and-White' obvious to me. If you went out in 2006 and bought the alternate AC Adapter w/3.2VDC output that *jtr1962* LINKed to, you too could have experienced a 'Meltdown'. :tinfoil:



MarioJP said:


> ...Say what you want but *just give it time*...


Time for what? 

I move that we all take a '*Wait-and-See*' attitude regarding La Crosse's 'Meltdown' resolution. 

Once:
*Amazon* and *Thomas Distributing* resume selling BC-9009s
*AND*
Some TECHNICAL Member / BC-9009 Owner takes a voltage reading of the new AC Adapter output
*AND*
Some ADVENTUROUS Member / BC-9009 Owner successfully charges 4 2000mAh AA cells @ 1000mA (several times :naughty: )
...we can, if necessary, re-visit this topic. 

All in favor, say "*Aye*" :goodjob:

Opposed ("*Nay*")? ​


MarioJP said:


> ...And no i don't dislike the Mahaa just that its bulky and not as flexible as in rejecting cells. In fact *I got tired of chargers that always refuse to charge cells even though they can still be used in low drain devices.*
> 
> That is what i do not like. The La crosse does not do that. I had cells that were crappy to use on high drain devices but not crappy enough to throw them away which most chargers refused to charge.


The La Crosse BC-900, with an AC Adapter outputting 3.0VDC, when charging 4 healthy 2000mAh AA cells @ 1000mA, is running right on the verge of the MOSFET's capability. The MOSFETs are getting TOO HOT, the cells are TOO CLOSE together for air circulation, and, looking at *Mr Happy's* recent

*"Graphical Comparisons of the Relationship Between VOLTAGE and TEMPERATURE Using Different TERMINATION Methods"*





*^UltraLast Hybrio AA @ 2000mA on GP GPPB14^*





*^UltraLast Hybrio AA @ 2000mA on Maha C9000^*​
*Reference: **Playing with the RadioShack 22-812 Meter*

by terminating via *-DeltaV* @ GE 1.53VDC, it's getting the cells unnecessarily hotter :devil: than terminating via *MaxV* @ 1.48VDC, followed by 2 hours @ 100mA of 'Topping Off'. 

I like my BC-900 for maintaining all of my *CRAP* cells and using the REFRESH function on my healthy AAA cells. I use my C9000 for (almost) everything else. :twothumbs

When useful / appropriate, I also use:1. Duracell CEF23
2. Sanyo MQN06
3. Sakar V-60 150mA Dumb/Series
4. RadioShack 23-418 140mA 13Hr/Series
5. Rayovac PS23B
6. Rayovac PS3
7. Rayovac PS1
8. RadioShack 23-428​​P.S. I must admit - I DO *ENJOY* spending an hour or more (EDIT: coming up on 3!) every now-and-then composing a post loaded with formatting (bold, italics, sizes, colors, smilies). I guess it's therapeutic - I have the impression that the reader is actually HEARING the changing vocal expressions and SEEING the accompanying body language that goes along with the content. I also enjoyed 'Experimenting' with the various formatting options. I hope that those of you who appreciate / enjoy my efforts, DO; and those of you who find it annoying, TOLERATE my brief / random indulgence(s).<


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## alfreddajero (Feb 19, 2010)

And to think that i was going to get two of those chargers a couple of years ago.....love the comparison TTT. Nice read.


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## Russel (Feb 19, 2010)

TakeTheActive said:


> ...IMO, *Russel* arrived here on CPF as I did - technically capable, but lacking knowledge of the finer details of rechargeable cell use and maintenance.


 
I resemble that remark! 

I like to think that I have expanded my knowledge base, much of it from here at CPF, but you know the old saying: the more you know the more you realize how little you know.


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## guiri (Feb 19, 2010)

Ok people, no personal attacks. I personally give a damn if someone repeats themselves. IF you don't like it, stay out of the thread. I'm looking for advice and that's it and I appreciate any advice. Everyone's got an opinion and IF this guy repeats himself, so be it.

George


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## TakeTheActive (Feb 19, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> ...*I had cells that were crappy to use on high drain devices but not crappy enough to throw them away which most chargers refused to charge*.





Russel said:


> *Before I learned better, I used my BC-900 to charge nimh cells that were rejected by my C-9000. I found that the cells tended to get hot while charging, no surprise considering the high internal resistance...*





MarioJP said:


> *Regular NiMh that i can see. But LSD cells are different when the cells develop HIGH internal resistance*...


How is a HIGH Internal Resistance 'Regular NiMh' cell *different* from a HIGH Internal Resistance 'LSD' cell? 

*Russel* is '_On-the-Money_' when he states that *HIGH* Internal Resistance cells are going to get 'HOTTER' :devil: when charging at a Charge Rate (i.e. 0.5-1.0C) that healthy (i.e. *LOW* Internal Resistance) cells won't.

*NOTE to All: *I'm currently, '_haphazardly_', compiling a list of C9000 ICV's (*Interpreting Maha MH-C9000 Impedance Check Voltage*) where other 'Non-Display / Non-Analyzer / Fixed Charge Rate' chargers (that I own) will also reject the (*CRAP*) cell(s). 

IIRC, ~2.50VDC appears to be the '_Sweet Spot_' for the:
Duracell CEF23
Sanyo MQN06
Rayovac PS23-B



MarioJP said:


> ...*Because it is a LSD cell they are not totally crappy cells, but the internal resistance is high enough to the point of rejection, and not a point of failure*...





Russel said:


> *That's interesting.* I have never had a LSD cell develop high internal resistance. Some of the non-LSD cells that I have owned had high internal resistance from day one. Those cells got recycled.



*MarioJP*,

The way I'm interpreting all of this is:
You abused / damaged some LSD cells by repeatedly charging them on a 15-Minute Charger @ 4C.
.
These cells eventually developed a HIGH Internal Resistance from being abused.
.
You prefer the La Crosse BC-900/BC-9009 over the Maha MH-C9000 (which you've NEVER used or owned) because the La Crosse chargers are '_more flexible_' and will still accept a *CRAP* (from abusing / damaging it on a 15-Minute Charger) / HIGH Internal Resistance cell.
IME, *CRAP* is *CRAP*, whether it's 'Regular NiMh' or 'LSD'.

Granted, I've only had LSD cells for a few years now so I haven't had the opportunity to turn them into *CRAP*, but... :thinking:



MarioJP said:


> ...Holds true with regular NiMh cells till this day. *But LSD cells pretty much changed of when to call it quits*...


I haven't called it quits on ~10 year old NiMHs (Rayovac) or ~20 year old NiCDs (GE). I don't understand why you are differentiating between 'Regular NiMh' and 'LSD'. 



MarioJP said:


> ...*so much of the 1000-1500 cycles if your charger refuse to charge now huh* .


So many folks don't understand HOW to properly maintain NiCD/NiMH cells that, IMHO, (UP TO) 1000-1500 cycles is just an advertising gimmick. The majority of the population will be lucky enough to get (UP TO) 100-500 cycles. 



MarioJP said:


> Apparently they do. *I had 4 pre charged duracells that got recycled which adm ittedly got thrashed by the 15 minute charger. Even after that abuse it refused to charge on a lot of chargers but the cells were still useful in fact the la crosse extended the cells for 2 more years that at this point my other old chargers just refused to charge them*...


So, if I have this right, the La Crosse line of chargers are more flexible than the Maha MH-C9000 (which you've NEVER used and/or owned) because the La Crosse chargers will continue to charge (and possibly overheat) HIGH Internal Resistance cells that were mistreated / abused / damaged by your repeated use of a 15-Minute Charger? :thinking:


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## TakeTheActive (Feb 19, 2010)

alfreddajero said:


> And to think that i was going to get two of those chargers a couple of years ago.....*love the comparison TTT*. Nice read.


Assuming you meant *TTA*, you're welcome! 

IMO, ONE La Crosse BC-900 is the PERFECT COMPLIMENT to ONE Maha MH-C9000:
The BC-900 SMART Charger/Analyzer handles *CRAP* cells (and healthy AAA cells)
.
The C9000 SMART Charger/Analyzer handles healthy cells (and still works with / benefits MOST *CRAP* cells - LE 2.10VDC ICV)
Each has their own *STRENGTHs* and *WEAKNESSes*.



Russel said:


> *I resemble that remark!
> 
> I like to think that I have expanded my knowledge base*...


It was meant as a *COMPLIMENT!* (based on this, and other threads / posts, where we have exchanged views)


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## alfreddajero (Feb 19, 2010)

Yes i meant TTA sorry man.


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## TakeTheActive (Feb 19, 2010)

*Charging NiZn Cells in a NiCd/NiMh Charger...*



MarioJP said:


> *I even use my la crosse to discharge ni-zn cells to see what capacity they are.*


I personally see no problem with DISCHARGE. AFAIK, a load is a load, irregardless of the cell type / chemistry.



Russel said:


> *I am surprised that you use your LaCrosse to charge them as well*:
> 
> 
> MarioJP said:
> ...





Conan said:


> *It's not advisable and I hope no one else tries to do it!*


Parallel to the folks that charge ALKALINE cells in their NiCD/NiMH chargers, what's the danger in *MarioJP's* *MANUALLY* charging NiZn cells in his NiCD/NiMH charger as long as he uses an *appropriate Charge Rate* and monitors the *Maximum Voltage*? :thinking:


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## Russel (Feb 19, 2010)

TakeTheActive said:


> Russel said:
> 
> 
> > I resemble that remark!
> ...


 
Thank you! I took it as a compliment.


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## Russel (Feb 20, 2010)

*Re: Charging NiZn Cells in a NiCd/NiMh Charger...*



TakeTheActive said:


> ...Parallel to the folks that charge ALKALINE cells in their NiCD/NiMH chargers, what's the danger in *MarioJP's* *MANUALLY* charging NiZn cells in his NiCD/NiMH charger as long as he uses an *appropriate Charge Rate* and monitors the *Maximum Voltage*? :thinking:


 
Good question. I am not fully versed on NiZn cells, but from what I understand the voltage cut off should be 1.9 volts.

http://www.powergenix.com/charging.php

MarioJP is experimenting beyond that:



MarioJP said:


> these cells are in trial testing which is why I only have one set. I will still keep using nimh as long as it is LSD cells. No more hi cap nimh cells for me anymore. Since I successfully managed to get my LA-Crosse charger to charge and top off ni-zn cells.
> 
> The charging characteristics are indeed very simple like LI-on. As I can see the voltages on the display
> 
> When it starts to charge the voltage goes up to 1.86v. It stays there for a good while, after that voltage starts to climb to 1.9V and gradually starts to climb fast. I pull the plug when voltages on all four cells hits exactly 2V. I would of imagine the cells would vent if I don't pull the plug. So now I found the voltage to stop the charge sweet.


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## Conan (Feb 20, 2010)

NiZn should be charged with Constant Current not Pulse charging.


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## TakeTheActive (Feb 20, 2010)

Conan said:


> *NiZn should be charged with Constant Current not Pulse charging.*


Please explain WHY...

Post supporting LINKs too!

Thanks!!!


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## MarioJP (Feb 20, 2010)

Conan said:


> NiZn should be charged with Constant Current not Pulse charging.



Because its a pulse charger??. If interested of the results so far I be glad to provide. On the nizn thread.

But in this thread. Did not meant to sound like a broken record here each his/hers has their preference of choice and I respect that.

Not trying to start a bad vibe here.


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## guiri (Feb 20, 2010)

Nah Mario, yall can talk about it since it's related anyway. Maybe it'll help others that are reading this thread.


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## MarioJP (Feb 20, 2010)

From the results is very interesting in my findings.

Before I began this test I thought like everyone else and followed what powergenix says. From what I read cc is to be used to charge ni-zn cells.

I wanted to put this theory to the test.

Site says that the cell voltage should be stopped at 1.9v. Which I am finding out is that is to terminate the high current charge and you leave the cells for 2hrs more to top it off.

This is only due to of how the powergenix chargers are setup. At 1.9v the cells are not fully charged as I am finding out.

This took many cycles to know if I fully charged the cells using the la crosse charger. I first started to charge these ni-zn cells at 1A but I am finding out it was harder to top off as the voltage would just skyrocket up to 2V.

When I did a discharge test I was only getting 1100mAh from them. Discharge rate was 500mA of course.

Came up with a theory to try to get more mAh from these ni-zn cells. My theory is, since I am using a pulse charger I lowered the charge rate from 1A to 700mA.

Boy did that made a difference not only did it stabilize the voltage from Skyrocketing when the voltage hit 2v I did the discharge capacity test. All of the 4 cells came out to be 1400mAh

Even when rested for 2 hours all came out to be 1400mah. I stopped it at 1.3V too.

I also used discharge rate 350mAh and the results on the cells were 1500mAh lol.

So not bad if I was to use it in high drain devices.

So when using the la crosse charger to charge ni-zn cells. The sweet spot is 700mA, and stopping the charge when the voltage hits exactly 2V.

This so called "constant current only" is starting to be on shaky grounds lol.


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## guiri (Feb 20, 2010)

So, you can pretty much tell the charger exactly what to do?


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## MarioJP (Feb 20, 2010)

guiri said:


> So, you can pretty much tell the charger exactly what to do?



Kind of yes, its tricky and involves timing too, but technically you can get the la crosse to charge if the timing is right lol.

Only downside of this whole thing that you can't just set it and forget it that's a big no no lol. If powergenix is correct these cells are the safest if anything should go wrong. I am guessing the worst case scenario is the cells would vent.

And another thing DO NOT SHORT CIRCUIT THESE CELLS! I lost a battery holder from these cells it only took seconds to warp the spring and through the plastic!. In fact almost instantly. Just hope nothing bad has happen to these cells


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## Conan (Feb 20, 2010)

TakeTheActive said:


> Please explain WHY...
> 
> Post supporting LINKs too!
> 
> Thanks!!!



The link is in Russel's post right above mine. 

@Mario, I'm really not interested about your findings. You might as well use your La Crosse to charge Lithium Ion cells while you're at it.


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## MarioJP (Feb 20, 2010)

Except that ni-zn does not explode like lithium ion and if I recall powergenix on one of their tests in their labs was to overcharge a ni-zn for 6 hours. Results were no explosions. You can see their video if you like.

Try doing that with a lithium ion for 6 hours and see what kind of results you get


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## Conan (Feb 20, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> Except that ni-zn does not explode like lithium ion and if I recall powergenix on one of their tests in their labs was to overcharge a ni-zn for 6 hours. Results were no explosions. You can see their video if you like.
> 
> Try doing that with a lithium ion for 6 hours and see what kind of results you get



You do it. I use the CORRECT chargers for the respective battery types.


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## guiri (Feb 20, 2010)

So, bottom line. Can they not make ONE stinkin charger that does it all and that you can set, program and forget?


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## Mr Happy (Feb 20, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> This so called "constant current only" is starting to be on shaky grounds lol.


Don't be silly. :huh:

The charge procedure (for NiZn) is constant current/constant voltage, i.e. constant current to 1.9 V using 750 to 1500 mA, then constant voltage until current drops below 75 mA.

It may well be that you can subject the cell to charging procedures other than the recommended one, but it is likely you will shorten the life of the cell or reduce its capacity by doing so. Especially if you take the voltage above 1.9 V. As in the case of lithium ion, there is probably a reason for setting an upper voltage limit on the cell.


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## Conan (Feb 20, 2010)

guiri said:


> So, bottom line. Can they not make ONE stinkin charger that does it all and that you can set, program and forget?



Only a hobby charger could do both NiMH and Lithium Ion. Not sure if NiZn would be in its parameters since the technology is pretty new. But then with a hobby charger you would have to fabricate your own cradles.


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## MarioJP (Feb 20, 2010)

Mr Happy said:


> Don't be silly. :huh:
> 
> The charge procedure (for NiZn) is constant current/constant voltage, i.e. constant current to 1.9 V using 750 to 1500 mA, then constant voltage until current drops below 75 mA.
> 
> It may well be that you can subject the cell to charging procedures other than the recommended one, but it is likely you will shorten the life of the cell or reduce its capacity by doing so. Especially if you take the voltage above 1.9 V. As in the case of lithium ion, there is probably a reason for setting an upper voltage limit on the cell.



Won't know until I see what happens. How many cycles these cells have anyways. 200?


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## Apollo Cree (Feb 20, 2010)

guiri said:


> So, bottom line. Can they not make ONE stinkin charger that does it all and that you can set, program and forget?



Heck, you can't even do that well for one single battery type like NiMH. You may make something that won't explode, vent or seriously damage any NiMH battery, but it won't be fast, optimal, fullest charge, and give you the longest possible life for all batteries.


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## MarioJP (Feb 20, 2010)

Yea I guess that is the problem can't have one charger for all type of battery chemistry or things can get complicated for most.


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## jarekdadej (Mar 21, 2010)

What about charging C and D size cells with maha C-9000, can i do it or the charger has some limitation on the capacity it can handle?


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## guiri (Mar 21, 2010)

Apollo Cree said:


> Heck, you can't even do that well for one single battery type like NiMH. You may make something that won't explode, vent or seriously damage any NiMH battery, but it won't be fast, optimal, fullest charge, and give you the longest possible life for all batteries.



Well, boo on them, that ain't right


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## SilverFox (Mar 21, 2010)

Hello Jarekdadej,

Welcome to CPF.

The Maha C9000 has a limit of around 4000 mAh (I think this is correct, but you can look it up to verify) under normal charging. The Break-In mode is an exception and its limit is 20000 mAh.

If you can figure out a way to connect a C or D cell to the unit, you can do multiple charges and charge that way.

Tom


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## guiri (Mar 22, 2010)

I guess, a battery holder from radio shack and some wire and a couple of gator clips and you should be good


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