# Expensive watches???



## Robocop (Mar 5, 2007)

Ok I must be out of the loop as I never knew watches could cost so much however a recent event opened my eyes.......

I recently had a call on a burglary where a very upset man stated he had two watches stolen valued at over 28 thousand dollars. If I remember correct one was made by a maker known as Zenith and the other was said to be one of 28 made by a french maker called George Burgeois or something like that.

He showed me a few pics and registration of each watch and I was shocked to notice how very ordinary they actually looked. I was expecting to see a watch laced with diamonds and having some form of james bond laser beam attatchment but they had nothing like that...amazing to know watches can cost so much.

And to think I complained at buying a 50 dollar watch for duty wear when this poor man lost 2 watches valued at that kind of cash. I was curious as to what watches the members here have or have seen that cost this type of money.....also what is it that makes some ordinary looking watches cost so much anyway?....Is it the actual workings of the watch or the rarity of the item or maybe just the maker?

To say the least I was shocked however did feel bad for the victim as he really did seem to be an avid collector. I really never did know there were other high end wrist watches out there as I have only heard of the Rolex being on top.....according to this man the Rolex is cheap in comparison to several others....both in cost and function.

So any input on this topic and do we have any collectors of watches here with items of similiar value?.....just curious as this facinates me for some reason.


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## Robocop (Mar 5, 2007)

Sorry but I just remembered we have an area for watches....please move this thread if possible in order to get more input....sorry for the mistake


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## 9volt (Mar 5, 2007)

Do a google search for "complicated watches". Patek Philippe makes some extremely expensive watches ($50k+).

A friend of mine who has his finances in order collects watches. One day he brought over a small box with about half a dozen of the watches in his collection so I could check them out. The real saleable value of those watches was more than my 2000 square foot house. No BS. 

Appearantly there is a reasonably active speculative market for watches at this level. If you buy the right watch and sit on it for a few years you can make good money selling it.


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## TheMechanic (Mar 5, 2007)

Robocop said:


> I recently had a call on a burglary where a very upset man stated he had two watches stolen valued at over 28 thousand dollars. If I remember correct one was made by a maker known as Zenith and the other was said to be one of 28 made by a french maker called George Burgeois or something like that.



Well, I suspect that you're mixing makers a bit. I'll try to explain.

Zenith was founded by Georges Favre-Jacot, who was one of the "greats" in the history of watchmaking. Aside from generally being credited with starting the Swiss watchmaking industry (Zenith was one of, if not the first, of the organized Swiss watch factories), he invented the Jacot Lathe, used to polish cone pivots used in watch escapements.

Was the second maker more like Abraham-Louis Breguet? Breguet was arguably the most gifted watchmaker to have ever lived. His innovations include the overcoil hairspring and the tourbillon escapement. An original Breguet watch (not the modern, reconstituted, no-connection-to-the-original-in-any-manner-whatsoever Breguet watch company) is a treasure, and highly valued.

Expensive watches are valued for their workmanship, complication, and rarity. The most valuable become so for what's under the hood, not the fancy paint job on the outside. Any hack jeweler can set diamonds - it takes a true craftsman to make a movement from scratch. That's where the value lies.

-=[ Grant ]=- (trained watch & clock-maker)


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## Minjin (Mar 5, 2007)

If you have any mechanical knowledge, get someone to open the back of your 50 dollar watch and open the back of something like a Zenith. A high end watch are some of the most wondrous little machines you will ever see. Its even more amazing when you realize that many are hand made. The 50 dollar watch is just a couple of stamped or molded parts.

Here, right on the front page of Timezone. Look at this and tell me this isn't cool. It should help you understand why these watches cost what they do.

http://www.timezone.com/library/rdnotebook/200702288556

Watch the video:

http://www.seikospringdrive.com/sonnerie/sound/index.html


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## CLHC (Mar 5, 2007)

Well, regarding stratospherically priced watches, there are some companies out there that produce such. There's one comany whose watch *starts out at $500K*! ! ! But I don't remember the name since I could not even pronounce it. . .


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## Elmie (Mar 5, 2007)

There was a patek that set a record at a recent auction. I believe it sold for over $8 million usd.

So a $20000 watch isn't all that crazy 

Makes my Omega SMP Chrono seem like a dollar store special.


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## paulr (Mar 5, 2007)

Regular folks think CPF'ers are crazy for buying 300 dollar flashlights. With expensive watches it's the same thing. See www.timezone.com for a CPF-like site about expensive watches. One of the most respected is the Philippe Dufour "Simplicty" --totally manual, no features at all, you have to wind it up and it has no calendar or anything like that, there's a 2-3 year wait to get them at around 30,000 dollars per. Every single part in it, all the tiny gears and screws and everything, each one is handmade. Some pics of it are here: http://www.ninanet.net/watches/others08/Mediums/mdufour.html


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## Elmie (Mar 5, 2007)

Holy smokes. The workmanship on that is outstanding!!!


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## paulr (Mar 5, 2007)

Oh yeah, one of my favorite watch reviews of all time, Walt Odets classic piece on the Rolex Explorer which will show you why the some watch buffs think Rolexes are basically overpriced mass produced watches worn by poseurs:

http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium0036 part 1
http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium631675591245315012 part 2


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## cave dave (Mar 5, 2007)

Here is a little watch guide.
http://www.chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml

Rolex is sort of the Maglite or if I'm being generous the Surefire of watches. When you get into the Spy's, Nano's, PDs, etc you are at a whole 'nother level. 

If you have high speed you gotta watch the video link of this watch. The pics are worth it too:
http://www.timezone.com/library/rdnotebook/200503149532


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## Perfectionist (Mar 5, 2007)

My dream watch ..... ok, it's not a Patek ..... but it's frikkin beautiful !!


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## Terry M (Mar 5, 2007)

I'm a poor, poor man. I love knives, flashlights and watches. My wife hates my hobbies.  However, the most expensive watch I've acquired so far is "only" a $1000 Seiko automatic. *shrug* maybe someday when the kids are all grown up I'll get an Omega which is my "holy grail"


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## Robocop (Mar 6, 2007)

I appreciate all the links and I never really knew there were so many custom watches out there.....something about the inner workings facinate me and I really must avoid getting interested in another hobby as this flashlight thing has already broke me several times already...hehe

Oh I almost forgot.....I found my notes from the burglary and the two watches in question are made by the makers below
#1 is a Zenith El-Primero
#2 is a Roger Dubuis Sympathie listed as #7 out of 28 made

Holy smoke he was right as I just looked them up on line and it shows them at about 17 thousand and some change...amazing


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## Kiessling (Mar 6, 2007)

This is a very bad thread. Dangerous. Temptation. Must resist.
Holy cow ... I didn't know how fascinating watches were ... oo:
bernie


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## TKC (Mar 6, 2007)

*I LOVE watches!! My most expensive watch is a TAG Heuer 6000 Series Automatic, that was close to $3,000 7 years ago. I always wanted a TAG, and found the perfect one for me!! It has a green face, and has a stainless steel and gold bracelet. I recently acquired a Steinhart-Debaufre (http://www.steinhartwatches.com/) Special Green Ocean 1, automatic. It is waterproof to 1,000 feet. I love watches!! I think I own about 6 watches.*


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## guntotin_fool (Mar 8, 2007)

I was asked to build a display case for a guy who had the watch bug, I built a 20 by 20 by 5 inch deep cherry box with some really nice figure for him. I had a lady I know do the interior in silk, we charged him like 1200 bucks for the case, to hold 16 watches, he immediately ordered 2 more. 
I delivered the 2nd two cases, and he showed me the first one, filled up. His wife walked in, saw what I was looking at, and asked me if I liked what a million dollars looked like. I nearly wet myself.


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## Robocop (Mar 8, 2007)

I have noticed that as flashaholics most of us also share a general area of similiar things we like......kind of like most of like various gadgets and other EDC type stuff and it appears watches are no exception

I am not sure if it is the precision nature or maybe the complex design of the small custom parts but there is just something about a really nice watch that simply facinates me....I never really knew it until I began researching it further but it is intersting to me


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## tanasit (Mar 8, 2007)

The pictures show both sides of this super complication watch. Even you have close to a mil to spend, you still have to wait in line for at least 2 years!


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## ABTOMAT (Mar 8, 2007)

I appreciate the stunning mechanical design of all these watches, as examples of the craft or as art, and I think are worth the money for that reason alone. However, as timekeeping devices a cheap electronically controlled and operated watch will be able to keep better time and for longer in most cases. If I wore a watch it would be something cheap, rugged, and accurate.


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## Kiessling (Mar 8, 2007)

If I had the money I'd wear a mechanical handmade watch. Ideally the gyrotourbillon.
It is poetry. It is art. It is mystery. It is a testament to mankind. 

Since I don't have the money I wear Luiminox and Glashuette.

bernie


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## RA40 (Mar 8, 2007)

I'd enjoy owning a fine piece of craftsmanship like these...drool. In practical terms for now, I'm happy with quartz. OTOH, I bought the Mrs. her first mechanical last month. I'm sure I'll be upping the ante every so many years...

A Limes Artemisia from Germany that has an ETA 2824-2 movement.


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## kingoftf (Mar 9, 2007)

The Blancpain 1735 is truly a watch worthy of being in the Robb Report's Ultimate Gift Guide. This ultimate in luxury timepieces is limited to 30 in number and capable of tracking multiple complications through the extremely delicate, single watchmaker work of merging features like a moon phase calendar, perpetual calendar and split-seconds chronograph. Each watch has over 740 individual components, some of which are made from 18-karat gold. The Blancpain 1735's design took over six years of intense labor to get the final vision of timepiece perfection to come together.

The Blancpain 1735 is in the top range of the most complicated mechanical wristwatches, costing *$ 767'732* per piece. Limited to only 30 pieces worldwide, each Blancpain 1735 watch takes approximately 18 months to produce, and only two Swiss watchmakers in the world are trained to manufacture this watch today.




Blancpain’s expert watchmakers devised a daunting new challenge: merging the ultra-slim movement, the moon phase calendar, the perpetual calendar, the split-seconds chronograph, the Tourbillon and the minute repeater into a single construction.

Despite countless doubts and dead ends, talent and perseverance ultimately got them there. After *six years*, against all odds, fulfilment was finally at hand. In homage to the year of foundation of the House of Blancpain, they called the new watch *1735*.

A truly inspired achievement, comprising no less than *740 components*, the Blancpain 1735’s horological wizardry provides a rare and altogether convincing demonstration that, at least for the best watchmakers, impossibility is only relative.


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## RA40 (Mar 9, 2007)

Gorgeous time piece :twothumbs


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## CLHC (Mar 9, 2007)

Hey—I've seen that watch up in Stanford Shopping Center and it was already spoken for! VERY NICE! ! ! But


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## RIDE (Mar 9, 2007)

Big watch nut here....

Watches are not unlike the flashlight thing. I have shown some of my $500+ titanium flashlights to folks who's jaws drop



when they hear the price. And that reaction even comes from guys sporting watches costing from 5K and beyond! The common comment I get is why would you ever spend that kind of money on a light? They just don't see enough of a benefit over a typical maglite or other Home Depot product.

I get much the same reaction from the guy sporting a Casio, Seiko (of which I also own a few) or an Omega when they realize what I spent on my watch.

Watches have a tremendous history and the craftsmanship is stunning. I think it's ignorant for my watch buddies to laugh at my flashlights, as much as I think it silly for guys spending many hundreds of dollars on lights to be subjected to comments from those who just don't get it. Fortunately, I am equally dumb in some people's eyes!





SO.....whether it's watches, flashlights, cars, classic guitars, or whatever it is that you spend your money on...just know that in the end, we are all a bunch of nuts





RIDE


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## hugodrax (Mar 9, 2007)

I received this recently  Here is a shot. I like Flashlights and Automatic watches


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## hugodrax (Mar 9, 2007)

RA40 said:


> I'd enjoy owning a fine piece of craftsmanship like these...drool. In practical terms for now, I'm happy with quartz. OTOH, I bought the Mrs. her first mechanical last month. I'm sure I'll be upping the ante every so many years...
> 
> A Limes Artemisia from Germany that has an ETA 2824-2 movement.



Where did you get that? I could get my wife a nice mechanical watch.


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## EricMack (Mar 9, 2007)

Fine watches are a fascination for me as well. If one spends the time to research well, one can buy a watch that you really enjoy wearing, and it may well appreciate in value as well. But like the "market" for Ltd. lights, it can go up and down...


Bernie, this one is just for you... Sinn Special Ed. EZM2 GSG9 edition...


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## Bjorn Keizers (Mar 10, 2007)

Robocop said:


> I have noticed that as flashaholics most of us also share a general area of similiar things we like......kind of like most of like various gadgets and other EDC type stuff and it appears watches are no exception


 
How right you are  I actually found CPF through my regular watch forum, the 'Poor Man's Watch Forum'. http://www.pmwf.com Most watch collectors seem to share either guns or knives. Of course, most are also into cars or other mechanical stuff. The watches-and-flashlights combination seems to be rare on my forum. 

I started collecting three years ago, and I currently own some 20 watches. Nothing too expensive -- I'm a 'poor' college student, so the nicest one I have is 'only' about $600. I'm currently planning the purchase of a 1400 Euro Sinn chronograph... the most expensive one yet. And to think three years ago I would never have considered spending more then $200 on a watch...

There's definitely parallels. The fun in collecting watches isn't owning the Big Brands like Omega or Rolex; arguably the 'maglite of watches' -- it's finding the real deals like Sinn, Stowa or Doxa. Often times, these watches are arguably higher quality and offer more interesting designs and features at lower prices. 



> He showed me a few pics and registration of each watch and I was shocked to notice how very ordinary they actually looked. I was expecting to see a watch laced with diamonds and having some form of james bond laser beam attatchment but they had nothing like that...amazing to know watches can cost so much.


 
"Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add... but when there is nothing left to take away."


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## kingoftf (Mar 10, 2007)

I´ve got a Omega Seamaster Chrono (almost 20 years now and it works like new), this big boy has a weight of nearly 300 gr. and for me it is to heavy for EDC. 







I now own a Seiko Kinetec Auto Relay. Half the weight and it has an automatic movement that feeds a battery and gives backup power for nearly 4 years without you have to fix the time. And a fraction of the price, perfect for EDC.


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## Frenchyled (Mar 10, 2007)

I like watches more than I like flashlights...but the price is not the same.. so I could buy more flashlights than watches 

Here the most expensive watch I have in my collection, even if I dream about a Blancpain one...I am sure I could never buy one


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## TCW 60 (Mar 10, 2007)

hugodrax said:



> I received this recently  Here is a shot. I like Flashlights and Automatic watches



Can you make a picture of the watch at your arm, to see the size better. I like this watch.


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## Elmie (Mar 10, 2007)

kingoftf said:


> I´ve got a Omega Seamaster Chrono (almost 20 years now and it works like new), this big boy has a weight of nearly 300 gr. and for me it is to heavy for EDC.




Nice watch!!!

I have one myself and its only off about 2 seconds a week!


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## Blades (Mar 10, 2007)

The jumping hands watch I want starts at $30,000. Maybe somday. 
Wait till you start pricing fountain pens. 



Blades


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## Elmie (Mar 10, 2007)

Pens I don't get. How can a Mont Blanc be worth so much? The workmanship and skill required is nowhere near that of a fine time peice.


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## kingoftf (Mar 10, 2007)

A few years ago I´ve seen a story about a swiss guy who maks the almost most expensive watches ever, full with "Complications" and about 1 Million Dollar each, unique pieces.
Those watchmaker are really crazy, one watch = 2 years to complete.
Sitting the whole day with a magnifer sticked to their eyes and handling custom made screws and other stuff as little as a pinhead or even smaller..... 
Don´t want to imagine if they have to sneeze.....


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## CLHC (Mar 10, 2007)

Elmie said:


> Pens I don't get. How can a Mont Blanc be worth so much? The workmanship and skill required is nowhere near that of a fine time peice.


I don't think Mont Blanc are "high end" "fine" writing instruments, because there are others waaay finer than those and they start in the high 5 figure range.


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## Elmie (Mar 10, 2007)

CHC said:


> I don't think Mont Blanc are "high end" "fine" writing instruments, because there are others waaay finer than those and they start in the high 5 figure range.



How can a pen be in the 5 figure range? Other then materials used.


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## CLHC (Mar 10, 2007)

Elmie said:


> How can a pen be in the 5 figure range? Other then materials used.


I retract in error, I meant to say FOUR (4) figure range. There's a few I've seen around here that's in the 5K range and a handful that's in the $12K range. Too much and not even made entirely out of precious metals.

Enjoy!


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## Osprey_Guy (Mar 10, 2007)

Check this out...

http://www.tighepen.com/

I know Grayson's dad (famous Canadian knifemaker)...and have seen Grayson's pens in person, and they are quite wonderful.

Last year I attended the International Pen Show in Tysons Corner, VA...I got to handle a $65,000 pen....all jewel encrusted with diamonds, rubbies, etc. Not my taste...but there was no denying that it was quite spectacular.


Dennis Greenbaum


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## Osprey_Guy (Mar 10, 2007)

BTW- I'm also into watches...but not at the levels discussed here. I own about 2 dozen Swiss made, "fashion" watches. Six of them, my favorites, are by Rado. Of those my absolute favorite is this one:

http://www.rado.com/100/109/734/121/237/238/1707.asp

Mine is nearly identical to the one in that link...except mine is nearly 20 years old! Instead of a grey face, mine has a mirror face. They discontinued it about 10 years ago and replaced it with the grey-faced version...I assume because some thought it was difficult to read (I have no trouble). The mirror version is way cooler!!! (IMHO) With sapphire crystals, 18 kt gold accents, ceramic bands (I believe they were the first to use ceramics)...all of my Rado's look like the day I bought them...and three of them are at least 17 yrs old! And they're all still in my regular rotation. 

Price point for most is about $1200-2500.


Dennis Greenbaum


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## cal..45 (Mar 13, 2007)

for the same reason some members in this forum prefer surefire flashlights over any other brand, mainly because of their toughness, I prefer to wear g-shock's.

I had my time when I was only wearing mechanical watches, most of them were Sinn, Omega and Tag-Heuer. but thanks god this time is ultimately over and now I don't have to worry no more about beatings, accuracy or even running out of power (which is always a big issue with mechs, when you don't wear them all the time) because most of my G's run with solar power. 

and I assure you, once you have encountered the enormous advantages a digital watch offers to one, you probably never looking back....

so my opinion about overpriced, fancy watches: total waste of money, but each to their own. 


regards, holger


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## jds009 (Mar 13, 2007)

hugodrax said:


> I received this recently  Here is a shot. I like Flashlights and Automatic watches



What is that? it kinda looks like a divers watch, i like it! probably really expencive though...


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## cal..45 (Mar 13, 2007)

jds009 said:


> What is that? it kinda looks like a divers watch, i like it! probably really expencive though...


 
hi,

its not cheap, but still affordable. more informations you will find  here 



regards, holger


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## Elmie (Mar 13, 2007)

cal..45 said:


> hi,
> 
> its not cheap, but still affordable. more informations you will find  here
> 
> ...



the movement looks rather basic. Very little in terms of finishing, ie., polishing.

But for under $700 its not a bad price for what you are getting.


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## Kiessling (Mar 13, 2007)

cal..45 said:


> for the same reason some members in this forum prefer surefire flashlights over any other brand, mainly because of their toughness, I prefer to wear g-shock's.
> 
> I had my time when I was only wearing mechanical watches, most of them were Sinn, Omega and Tag-Heuer. but thanks god this time is ultimately over and now I don't have to worry no more about beatings, accuracy or even running out of power (which is always a big issue with mechs, when you don't wear them all the time) because most of my G's run with solar power.
> 
> ...





Withstanding a beating and running forever on solar energy is not what "fancy" watches are about. For that, you have cheap watches, workhorses, whatever you'd like to call them.

THose high priced man-made watches are something entirely different. They are art. They are the culmination of mankind's skills. Not a computer fabricated mass-assambled electronic whiz-bang ... but an instrument of precision born through the mind and imagination ... genius ... of the creator. His vision.

Those watches are spirit. They are culture. They are a statement. 

They are all that, and you can wear them on your wrist. You can carry all that splendor (physically as well as spiritual) on your wrist.

No G-Shock can do that for you.

Preferring something like a G-Shock over handmade "fancy" watches means preferring assambly lines and roboted construction over the labout of love and compassion ... of man.

Looking at that ... of course they are expensive. They have to be, looking at how they are born. 
UNfortunately more factors than just the watch are to be considered here, but that we see with flashlights, too 

bernie


P.S.: no, I cannot afford a "fancy" watch. I would love to, but most likely will never be able to.


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## EVAN_TAD (Mar 13, 2007)

My manual watches will always survive nuclear EMP.


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## EricMack (Mar 13, 2007)

I like them both, as both kinds have their place. Kinda like LED's and Hotwires, both are interesting in their own ways.


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## GhostReaction (Mar 13, 2007)

You will never see me wearing a diamond studed gold bracelet.
But Blancpain, Patek, Panerai; these fine percision instruments I ll gladly and proudly put on my wrist. 
Its like jewelry for the male.

Fine Pen? I dont get it too. My handwriting still looks like crap with a Montblanc.

P.S: Heck even with a fine watch, I m still late :nana:


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## cal..45 (Mar 13, 2007)

@ kiessling,

well thats might be the way how you see a watch, but its certainly not mine (anymore). I said goodbye and farewell to all those hyper-dyper marketing hype about this so called "high-end" watches and why they are superior to cheap quartz plastic thingies and so on and so forth....

I don't care no more about brand names, craftmansship, culture, spirit statement, sorry but these are nothing but hollow phrases to me.

oh and by the way, what you call an "instrument of precicision" I call an anachronism, because the last thing a mechanical watch can be is to be precise. 

you see, today a watch is nothing more to me than a tool, but also nothing less. it has to show the time, the preciser the better, something no mechanical watch can ever do really good. 

I can see why some (many) think a quartz watch is a soulless, cold, lifeless thing of plastic and steel, but I don't have this romantic feelings - sorry. and I'm not willing (though I could) to spend thousands and thousands for a watch, from which I will have by far a inferior performance to expect, its just illogical and irrational for me. (no offense, its just my opinion)


@ even_tad,

your mechanical might survive a nuclear EMP, but in that case your watch is the last thing to worry about, I believe....


regards, holger


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## TorchBoy (Mar 13, 2007)

tanasit said:


> The pictures show both sides of this super complication watch. Even you have close to a mil to spend, you still have to wait in line for at least 2 years!


   

I'm not into fabulously expensive watches - I think it's impractical to own something that expensive and not wear it (which I just wouldn't want to do at the price we're talking about) - but I do appreciate the craftmanship in them.

I've got a Casio Protrek that suffers from an old battery that can no longer power the higher functions (like altimeter etc). Yes, it's big, but I explain it's compensation for having a small car. :laughing:

Edit: Bernie, just curious, do you buy torches for their artistry or their functionality? Or both? Do "art" torches even exist?


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## flashy bazook (Mar 13, 2007)

your posts were very much on the mark, cal..45!

we had similar experiences. Basically, the G-shock watches now outrank the Swiss mechanicals by something like 3,000 : 1 per quality-adjusted dollar.

They have much greater accuracy and are of course much cheaper.

but it isn't only that: they are designed to withstand 10-G pressures, last 10 years, and dive to 10 atmosphers (the 3 tens' project of Cassio). The supposedly robust mechanicals break down constantly - I read reviews by unhappy owners who would lose use of their expensive watches for months (or even years) while they waited for the skilled craftsmen who alone could fix them to get round to fixing their watch. (some would then charge $500 for the priviledge!). And this kept happening to them.

The Cassio's can cost less than $100 for all of that, and run on solar power. The one I have also resets itself nightly using the atomic clock in Colorado (they have versions also for Europe and for Japan).

If you lose it, or it is stolen, no sweat.

As to the stuff about poetry, culture, refinement...it's all used by the industry selling those watches to justify the very high prices they set.

I ran into a watch salesman in an airport once, and we got to talking. He explained how the industry views these watches, and it isn't as useful tools. Basically they are viewed as fashion items, to be manipulated every couple of years (change the look, color, etc.) and resold. Men tend to avoid wearing jewellery (at least to the extent that women do) but want to wear something flashy, so a watch is a kind of an acceptable jewellery for men.

The market is not completely stupid for all of that, and the cheaper electronic watches are 96% of the market now.

FInally, all these mechanical watches end up looking the same after a while, and rather boring at that: all have 2-3 chrono switches, 2-3 "circles" inside (if you are lucky enough to get seconds' measurement!), maybe a date (more rarely and expensively, a day!).

OK, some very very expensive watches from very top makers can look different, if done on a simple design, but most do not. Plus some attempts at beautification (think on those strange hr marks!) end up looking ridiculous.

So, there, you have at least one ally on this thread!


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## Terry M (Mar 13, 2007)

kingoftf said:


> I´ve got a Omega Seamaster Chrono (almost 20 years now and it works like new), this big boy has a weight of nearly 300 gr. and for me it is to heavy for EDC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Since the Omega is too heavy for EDC, want to shoot me a real nice price and I'll buy it from you?


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## browntown (Mar 14, 2007)

if I won the lottery I would be on the phone with the folks at http://www.vacheron-constantin.com/ the next day. I love em'. Not sure why. I call almost every year and request their hardbound catalog. It's a coffee-table book worth having.







Generally I have worn watches that cost around 2-400$ and have broken or lost every one. For the last year or so I got out of the habit of wearing a watch regularly as my cell phone use has increased on the new job. I find myself pulling out my phone to check the time. It's time for another watch.

My biggest issue is that I have small wrists, and I like the big watches. Back on topic though, in the affordable range I have my eye on a seiko diver automatic.





But if I treated my watches better I would buy either an Omega seamaster (like above) or speedmaster Man on the Moon watch or possibly a Heuer Carrera.


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## Robocop (Mar 14, 2007)

Browntown that Vacheron watch in your first picture is simply beautiful.....I like the all stainless look with the contrasting black face.....I have seen some very nice watches in this thread but something about that first picture stands out.

I also really like the look of that Seiko Kinetic auto relay....very interesting look to it. I sure do hope I do not get hooked on this thread of watches like I did lights.....seems that watches cost much more to play with really.

Sadly like others I really could not use something very costly on duty.....any street cop will tell you the first thing to usually get broken in a scuffle is your watch and I would regret even scuffing an 800 dollar watch even if it did not break.....strangely enough I do not even wear a watch off duty that much but maybe I should after seeing all the slick designs in this thread.


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## 9volt (Mar 14, 2007)

The Chronoswiss Opus is one fo my favorites:






The Jaeger-Le Coultre Reverso Duo is really fun to play with too, but it's hard to describe this watch in a single picture

For a watch that has a truly good movement but is in the realm of affordability for normal people check out Tissot. Be aware that some of their watches are not nearly as nice as others. 

http://www.tissot.ch/?from=us


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## browntown (Mar 14, 2007)

this thread has really given me the watch bug again. So I can stay in my relationship and not sleep on the couch, I just pulled the trigger on the bargain diver of the decade, the invicta pro diver s2, only 71.99$ shipped from amazon.


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## RedLED (Mar 15, 2007)

Watches are a lot of fun.

I am a Rolex collector, and like the sport models.

Watches offer something for everyone al all price levels.

I feel every man needs at least one nice watch.

Best,

RL


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## GarageBoy (Mar 15, 2007)

Nice pens start @ $100. A Lamy 2000 FOUNTAIN pen has been known to write much better than any MB


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## TKC (Mar 15, 2007)

*I am also a watch nut!! I have a TAD Heuer that I have had for 7+ years. I recently purchased a Steinhart-Debaufre Special Green Ocean 1. I have a Citizen ProMaster dive watch, currently in my fire proof box. I have a titanium seiko, with a green cloth band. That was a gift to me. I love automatic watches!! They are my favorite.*


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## CLHC (Mar 15, 2007)

Hello *TKC*! You must have fast fingers while typing on the keyboard. I'm sure you meant TAG instead of *TAD*.

Anyhou, those are some really nice watches and that Steinhart reminds of the 50th Anniversary Rolex Submariner with the exception being the green dial.

Enjoy!


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## Kiessling (Mar 15, 2007)

Holger ... no need to be sorry. We have all our very own views of life. 
I am not talking absolute performance. Man made perfection interests me.
Of course those watches do not have any real bang-for-the-buck value. But who said so?
Does your wife wear jewelry? Did you buy her some?


TorchBoy ... I buy torches for practical reasons and the love of light and function. I want the best torch for my needs. That said ... my torches are "manula" torches, no microcontroller in mine ... 
There are some "art" torches ... but I cannot afford to be a collector, so I don't buy them. 


bernie


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## flashy bazook (Mar 16, 2007)

> I buy torches for practical reasons and the love of light and function. I want the best torch for my needs. That said ... my torches are "manula" torches, no microcontroller in mine ...
> There are some "art" torches ... but I cannot afford to be a collector, so I don't buy them.


kiessling,

I thought you did own at least a few of McGizmo's creations?

Which would quality as "art" torches and would also have regulator circuits inside?

Surely, you are not only an admirer of the McGizmo torches only from afar!


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## vtran96 (Mar 16, 2007)

Elmie said:


> the movement looks rather basic. Very little in terms of finishing, ie., polishing.
> 
> But for under $700 its not a bad price for what you are getting.



I believe it can be had at a lower price. I was looking at watches last year when my $60 quartz stopped working (not bad for 14 years of service). My Uncle visited last year and he took it back to Canada with him where it was fixed by his brother, new sapphire crystal and all. To make a long story short, I found this website that had alot of watches that interested me. There's 4 pages of nice looking watches at a more affordable price, but not as nice as some of the ones seen on this thread.

http://www.westcoastime.com/tsarfrommarn1.html


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## Kiessling (Mar 18, 2007)

flashy ... IMHO McGizmo torches aren't "art torches" even if they might look like it. They are solid tools and are about functionality. The "art" aspect is welcome but not important in this case.
They have regulators, but no multi-click uC switches. That's what I wanted to say.

Anyway ... we are drifting too far off topic in this cool thread I think 

bk


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## X Racer (Mar 18, 2007)

I am also a fan of nice watches and EDC a ~$2500 Tag Heuer Link w/MOP and diamonds...

Lussori.com has some very nice watches, and sells watches that are over $100k ! For the thread starter, head over to that site and you'll see some VERY nice watches, and also very expensive...


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## Robocop (Mar 19, 2007)

X Racer holy smoke those are some nice watches however way over my head....in starting this thread I was mostly interested in research of expensive watches due to a recent burglary on duty where the man claimed he had 2 watches that were 28k total loss......now I can honestly believe he was telling me the truth.

Yes I so much do admire all these watches and have became very facinated with them due to this thread.....sad to say on a police salary I will never see any of them.....even if I could somehow obtain something as nice as most of these I would be scared to even wear it.......looks like the term shelf queen does not only apply to lights...hehe


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## smokelaw1 (Mar 19, 2007)

AH, man...another one of my bugs. My every dear wear watch is a Jaeger LeCoultre MasterMoon, which I believe is no longer being made, but is my favorite due to the fact that I am a big fan of symmetry in my watches. Some beautiful watches out there don't quite have it, and though I own them, and wear them on occassion, for Every Day, I love the (relative) simplicity and symettry of the master Moon. 

I wear my Tag as a "travel watch" when I am scared of loss, theft or damage.


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## paulr (Mar 19, 2007)

Flashaholics have shelf queens but the WIS equivalent ("WIS"="Watch Idiot Savant", the watch buff term for a watchaholic) is "safe queen". One doesn't leave a $100k watch sitting on a shelf. Oh yes another thing, watches have to be kept wound up to keep operating, so there are winding machines (usually for autowind watches but even for stemwound) that keep the watch spinning away inside the safe. 

There's a hilarious story called "My descent into hell" about becoming a WIS. Flashaholics will find the elements familiar but remember the amounts of money involved are orders of magnitude higher. The regular url isn't responding but here's the google cache. Enjoy.


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## qip (Mar 19, 2007)

winding machines ,are many folks in here interested in any , my dad either does his by hand or doesnt need the crotons in my sig


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## RA40 (Mar 19, 2007)

hugodrax said:


> Where did you get that? I could get my wife a nice mechanical watch.



Sorry, haven't checked the thread until now.
I bought her watch from this place:
http://www.watchbuys.com/Limes.htm

It's a very popular model and is currently out of stock. She loves it.  

The manufacturers USA site:
http://www.limeswatches-us.com/


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## TheMechanic (Mar 19, 2007)

Robocop said:


> Yes I so much do admire all these watches and have became very facinated with them due to this thread.....sad to say on a police salary I will never see any of them.....even if I could somehow obtain something as nice as most of these I would be scared to even wear it.......looks like the term shelf queen does not only apply to lights...hehe


That depends...

If your goal is to impress others or to own a status symbol, you're right. If, however, your desire is to simply own a legitimate example of horological perfection, you may be surprised at what you can afford.

Watch collectors focus on collectible brands and models - that's why they're called "collectors." Sadly, they ignore mechanically excellent watches because they don't have the cachet of certain brands. As it turns out, there are some great watches in brands that are not generally considered "collectible."

If you want a superb watch that also represents a great era in history, American railroad-grade pocket watches are still available for only a few hundred dollars. These are the watches that quite literally defined the modern era of precision portable timekeeping; the only timekeeping devices made that were more accurate were astronomical regulators and ship's chronometers, but they were hardly as portable! They had to keep to an absolute maximum variance of +/- 4 seconds per day, and that wasn't advertising hype or a one-time achievement. Each and every watch had to be tested regularly while in daily use, and any one that didn't meet that standard had to be repaired or replaced. 

So a pocket watch is an absolute no-go? Absolutely have to have a wristwatch? There were some great American-made watches built prior to 1950 that would give any Swiss watch of the day stiff competition in construction quality and performance. One that is regularly overlooked is the Lord Elgin series. Elgin is saddled with the reputation of having made "budget" watches, but the Lord Elgin was their shot at making the best watch they could make - and they succeeded. The 23-jewel Lord Elgin movement is (in my estimation) one of the best ever made in the U.S. What's more, their styling is absolutely classic (perhaps the best of the era) and they can often be had for less than $200.

What you won't find are complicated watches coming from this country - that's a Swiss thing. Americans focused solely on accurate timekeeping, and they succeeded admirably. You won't find diver's watches or even water-resistant models in American brands; what you will find is a superb movement in a great looking case. That's the essence of a great watch.

-=[ Grant ]=- (an actual trained watch and clockmaker)


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## russtang (Mar 19, 2007)

I've had a Rolex and a couple of Omega's and they were nice watches.

Now I have an ORIS TT1 and a couple of SEIKO kinetic.

ORIS has been making mechanical watches for 100 years and that is ALL they make.

I dont think there is a better VALUE in a mech. watch than ORIS.

Check out their lineup and you will find at least a couple that appeal to you.

My next one will be a Frank Sinatra Limited Edition. I Hope


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## Robocop (Mar 20, 2007)

I honestly would like to have a nicer watch however would not fully be able to appreciate some of the items shown in this thread....I am not that big on status symbols however do appreciate the actual beauty of many of these watches.....some of them are just very nice looking to my eye.

I think it is the gadget factor that catches my attention or maybe even the detailed parts I know must be inside. I have only 2 watches and one is a cheap digital for work while the other is a Citizen with the actual moving hands that was a gift from my old job prior to police work. The Citizen is actually a very nice watch however the batteries have long been gone and I never wear it much.

Can anyone tell me what the term Jewel means when used for a watch. I have been reading all these links and notice some watches have a higher jewel rating....such as a 23 jewel VS a 24 jewel watch.....is this something to do with the cost or maybe the value as a collector item??


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## Kilovolt (Mar 20, 2007)

Robocop said:


> Can anyone tell me what the term Jewel means when used for a watch. I have been reading all these links and notice some watches have a higher jewel rating....such as a 23 jewel VS a 24 jewel watch.....is this something to do with the cost or maybe the value as a collector item??


 
In a mechanical watch the tiny shafts of the wheels and gears are supported by stones that act as bearings to keep the friction to a minimum. In the past these stones used to be small natural rubies and consequently in Europe watches are still keeping the old marking "x rubies". In some other places the word used is "jewels".
In more sophisticated movements most of the wheels are supported by stones while in lesser types some of the wheels (the slower turning ones) are using standard friction bearings. Thus in principle the higher the number of jewels the better the quality of the machine.


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## Gary123 (Mar 20, 2007)

I have a small unusual comment to add.

I was recently speaking to a world class watch repair guy, he works on all the great ones (Patek, Vascheron, Audemares Piguet) and also does work for the Smithsonian. He was talking about the "philosophy" of using jewels in movements and said that, for example, Patek Philippe refrains from using jewels in certain places in the movement because it compromises the accuracy of the watch.

Have you ever heard of such a thing? I'm sure he's right, but what an idea. The world's finest watch company cutting back on the number of jewels in their movements. He said that regular maintenance is imperative and that the component would likely need to be replaced after a period of time.

But generally it is correct that one would want more jewels. It protects the movement from wear.


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## Manzerick (Mar 20, 2007)

i don't know much about this but joined www.watchuseek.com 's forum to learn.


I've been looking into Tudor watches. Reallynice pieces but can't be purchesed inthe states... Now, when I go to London at the end of the year.. I'm IN!!!


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## TheMechanic (Mar 20, 2007)

You may be misinterpreting his comments, or perhaps he didn't phrase them well.

There is a lot of debate as to what constitutes a "functional" jewel and what constitutes a "superfluous" or "useless" jewel. Even useless jewels will not compromise the accuracy of a watch movement, unless they were inserted at the expense of harder-to-install functional jewels. 

Example: putting in a barrel jewel is of somewhat debatable value, and is often done in preference to lever cap jewels because a) it's a lot easier to do and b) looks good to the consumer (lever jewels are pretty hard to see.) The lever jewels really help accuracy as the watch changes positions (orientation) - which is important in a portable timepiece!

As it happens, useless jewels are almost always encountered in automatic movements. (The winding portions of the movement don't affect accuracy, and rarely benefit from jeweling except in a few specific places, but give ample opportunity to up the jewel count to - again - impress the buyer.)

-=[ Grant ]=- (trained watch and clockmaker)


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## Robocop (Mar 21, 2007)

Well this thread has made me consider a new watch for wear other than on duty and I was amazed when I began researching many of the links given.

I honestly thought the term "automatic" watch was meaning the second hand was smooth and did not have the "tick" most often found in watches when it revolves.....I was shocked to find watches now have no need for battery replacement and that is the true meaning of automatic in a better watch.

Ok so after reading up a little I see some watches that get power from storing it from the natural arm movements when worn and other watches use solar power. I have read that even with no need for batteries the capacitors can sometimes fail however may take years to do so.

Ok after learning some new things I am curious as to any affordable watches that are automatic and also what are the advantages of both the auto and solar designs?

On a side note I was recently looking on line and found some very cool looking watches made by Fossil and they were all under 100 dollars....I do not think any of them were automatics but still had a nice look to their design. I know that Fossil is probably crap when dealing with some of the watches in this thread but honestly for me about 200 dollars is the max I could be willing to go on an EDC watch.

Actually the reason I began having an interest in the automatic watches is because I found a watch that was a gift for me I had forgot about. It was also a Fossil watch in the model that has the face that alternates between 2 color schemes and was called a Big Tic I think. Well the battery was dead and I hated the idea that all I found on line said I would have to send it away to replace the batteries.....well I did get it open and did replace the batteries myself without damage however cracked the glass when I was trying to press the rear section back on.......so now I hate the idea of paying 25 dollars to replace the batteries on a 50 dollar watch so I like the idea of automatics.

I am sure my price range makes it impossible to find what I am seeking but again can anyone tell me the basics of both the autos and solar watches....also any close to the 200 dollar mark that is worth having??


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## AdamW (Mar 21, 2007)

NOT A WATCH EXPERT, however, I have found that the quartz watches are the way to go for everyday wear. Honestly, they are easier to live with. Automatics are cool, have tradition behind them, style, mechanical intrigue and so on. The quartz watches just keep time with no real thought.

At $200 you can find some attractive, well made watches if you shop around. At this price point, look for a style that suits you. I like the Swiss Army (not the Wenger brand) watches with the metal bracelets. Good looking, they are accurate enough, and the quality is acceptable. Same with some of the Citizen watches. My wife bought me a Citizen Eco-Drive in titanium that is ok.

Go for style and practicality. Also, leather watch bands will stink if you wear them every day. All that sweat, body oil, salt, dead skin, dirt...

Recently bought this for my wife: http://www.princetonwatches.com/shop/0605525.asp


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## paulr (Mar 21, 2007)

Robocop, automatic watches are not a high tech development, they've been around since the 1920's or maybe even earlier. They are mechanical watches powered by a wound-up spring. There is a rotating weight inside the watch connected to the spring, so when you wear the watch normally on your wrist, your natural wrist motions make the rotating weight swing around and that keeps the watch wound up. 

In general, mechanical watches are pretty much obsolete by now, and they are still made mostly for the benefit of enthusiasts who appreciate the artistry and precision mechanics in them. But they've gone the way that incandescent flashlights are going. Of course they're still wonderful and beautiful just like a precision Curta mechanical calculator. People pay 1000's for Curtas even though a $5 electronic calculator does the same thing much more reliably.

The Timezone folks like to say that a quartz watch is an appliance--change the battery every few years and it tells you the time; while a mechanical watch is more like a pet, you have to tend to it, keep it wound up and adjusted and all that, but it gives you a feeling of companionship. Don't imagine that you're going to save money by avoiding needing batteries. Quartz watches need basically zero maintenance except for the occasional battery or replacement strap. Mechanicals are more like cars, you have to send them to the shop for lubrication and cleaning every few years, and adjustment less frequently, but all of these maintenance things cost a lot, especially for expensive watches.


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## Robocop (Mar 22, 2007)

PaulR it is amazing to me to find that automatic watches have been around for so long.....I get the concept of the spring wound watch but thought it had to be done manually and never knew simple motion of my arm could keep it wound up....amazing to me.

Also if I understand correct even the automatic watch has a battery correct?....it is simply a rechargeable version and is used to store a charge after the movement charges it??.....same thing for the solar powered watches in that they do have a battery or a capacitor that may need replacing?

Also I am not opposed to a watch with a replaceable battery however I would like the option of replacing it myself.....I got angry for some reason to find that both of my "better" watches had instructions that said I must send them to a dealer to replace the battery. When I started looking on line I found it could cost me 15 to 25 dollars and may take up to 6 weeks on shipping both ways.....whatever happened to the little screws on the backs of watches to allow the user to replace the battery anyway ?

I am not a fanatic about being super accurate with time and would most likely buy a watch for looks and personal taste however the idea of never changing a battery does sound nice. I use cheaper watches (20dollars) at work and honestly they perform very well as far as being accurate but this thread has kind of sparked my interest for a better quality EDC......I am trying to avoid getting the same addiction to watches that I have for lights.....It was just a few short years past and several thousand dollars past that I was asking questions about 5mm lights on this forum...well the rest is history and maybe with a better watch purchase early on I can avoid the need to have many more.


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## Perfectionist (Mar 22, 2007)

Get a nice Seiko 5 ..... kick *** Automatic watch at a very reasonable price .....


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## paulr (Mar 22, 2007)

With most quartz watches you can change the battery yourself with a jeweler's screwdriver, but for some of them you may need special tools.

"Automatic watch" just about always refers to a mechanical watch as I described. No electronics at all, no capacitors or batteries, we're talking about technology going back to Brueget in the 1780's or something like that (although it was all pocket watches until the WW1 era). The timekeeping element is a balance wheel on a spiral hairspring, that takes the place of the pendulum in an old-fashioned grandfather clock. The rest of the mechanism (the "motion works") is basically a miniaturized clockwork. Each time the balance wheel oscillates (usually 5x/second) it kicks a lever (the "anchor escapement") that advances the gear train that makes the hands move a tiny fraction, and also releases a little bit of energy from the mainspring back into the balance wheel to keep the oscillation going. The first real improvement on this 200-year-old scheme was the Daniels coaxial escapement used in that Omega watch someone put a scan of upthread. It was invented around 20 years ago (in $100K custom watches from Daniels) and is now available in production watches from Omega starting at a mere couple grand or so.

There are some Citizen watches where solar cells charge a capacitor that spins a micro motor that winds up a spring that runs a generator that powers an otherwise garden variety digital-analog electronic watch (gets rid of the need for a battery) but that's just another computer gizmo, nothing to do with the great tradition of analog mechanical watches. You've got to understand, the mechanical stuff is a real anachronism by now, almost like deciding to travel overseas in a square-rigger sailboat instead of buying an airline ticket like everyone else does. The appeal is kind of similar.

If you just want a nice watch in the $100-$200 range that's not too geeky and is a grade or two above the typical plastic Casio stuff, I'd say look at the Seiko perpetual calendars. These have the outer appearance of good mechanical watches, are terrifically accurate and run for something like 10 years on a battery. "Perpetual calendar" means the watch shows the correct date every day, automatically adjusting for lengths of months and for leap years. In a mechanical watch that's considered a "complication" (something requiring a lot of extra gears to accomplish) and costs a fortune, but the Seikos are just digital watches under the skin, and so they can implement these traditionally expensive features with basically no fuss.

Take a look at the old Horologium columns on timezone.com for many wonderful descriptions and photos of the innards of mechanical watches. The Rolex Explorer review that I linked above came from there. Another favorite of mine is a pair of reviews of the Lange Saxonia (or maybe some other model, I don't remember). A $20,000 watch or thereabouts. Like other expensive watches it has a glass back so you can see the movement. In the first review the guy looked through the glass with a loupe oooh-ed and aahhh-ed about how beautifully finished the gears and bridges were, etc. etc. Sort of the way we get about HA finishes on flashlights, but more so. He was just delighted about the flawless polishing on each gear. In the second review, he'd had the watch longer and taken it completely apart. Yes, these guys buy $20,000 watches and completely dismantle them and photograph the individual gears and springs under microscopes. Seems like the exquisite finish on those gears was only on the side of the gear facing the back, where you could see it through the glass. The other side of the gear had a perfectly functional finish but was nowhere near as elaborately decorative, since it was facing the inside of the watch so you could only see it if you took the watch apart. He was mad as hell! He said in really good watches, they apply the high class finish all the way through, including the parts of the watch you can't see, so he referred to what Lange (the watch company) had done as "pandering". It came out ok though, someone else bought one of Lange's top of the line watches (their $100k tourbillon) and lent it to the reviewer to take apart. He reported that the $100k version was made correctly--what a relief. 

It's a different world out there 

Horologium http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium

It occurs to me, you might be interested in the TZ Watch School:
http://www.timezonewatchschool.com/WatchSchool/

I've been wanting to sign up for it myself sometime. It's just $50 tuition plus you have to buy some low cost watch tools and a cheap movement, and they teach you to take the watch apart and put it back together. There's a sample lesson online and it looks like a lot of fun if you're into that kind of thing.


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## Robocop (Mar 22, 2007)

Thanks for the incredible links Paul and it seems those watch guys are just as nuts about watches as we are about lights. I can honestly say after reading that library link I can now understand the cost associated with some of those watches......the attention to detail is incredible and the actual workings are way over my head.

I like to consider myself a modder on here however really just like to tinker with lights and do not come close to the skill as some of our members have. The watch world does look very fun to start up tinkering with however honestly I think I will stay with cheap lights for now...hehe

I almost forgot to ask however I just thought of something....on the automatic watches I very much like the idea of not needing a battery to operate however if this is so then there is no light on the watch correct? I spend most of my life on nightime hours as my schedule at work is on night shift thus my personal life is also adjusted to those hours.....I really would use the light feature on a watch and now wonder if the autos have some form of light feature?.....of course I am sure tritium markers are probably used on the better models anyway.


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## paulr (Mar 22, 2007)

Correct, automatic watches have no batteries or lights. A few of them have tritium markers, especially the military style ones. Countycomm has some of these. Super Lumenova is more common than tritium.

There is a pretty good book popular over there, that comes with a kit where you build a wind-up clock (basically like a watch except a lot bigger) from scratch. They give you all the parts (plastic gears several inches in diameter, i.e. you don't need tweezers or loupes or anything like that) and the whole thing is about 15 bucks. I've been wanting one of those for a while. Keeps lousy time but looks pretty cool, and fun to put together.


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## kingoftf (Mar 22, 2007)

Here are a few nice photos from the gears and all the stuff inside an automatic watch:

http://www.timezone.com/library/horologium/horologium631686780396906210

Just to mention: All the photos are zoom, the real size of this parts is around 0.20 inches

And here the most expensive watches ever:

http://www.antiquorum.com/new_website/vox/2007/spring_2007/06%20-%20VOX_Spring_2007_Who-s_Who_of_horlogy.pdf


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## depusm12 (Mar 27, 2007)

I just want to get another Invicta 8926 Diver's watch my last one was stolen out of my barracks room when I was active duty Navy and never recovered. Not real expensive maybe $100 bucks. Got it a a great discount from a little shop that went out of business.


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## Filament (Apr 18, 2007)

After many many many years (ok, 20+) of wanting a Rolex Sub, I finally got one. I've had almost everything from entry level Seiko's and Citizen's, mid-level like the Seiko Tuna, SAR and TSAR, and really nice ones like Seiko Marinemaster Auto and Omega Seamaster. They were all great watches, never gave me a bit of trouble, but could never quite satisfy that itch. Finally, after waiting and searching and saving, I got this:







(specks/marks are mostly due to my crappy photography)
Perfect? No, but it is pretty darn close. The thing is running less than -1 sec/day, and has completely come out on top with regards to two of my pet peeves in watch-dom:

1. The crown operation should be easy, no wobble or chance of cross-threading, and engage easily when setting day/date.

2. The bezel operation should be smooth but firm, nice solid clicks, and should line up with the dial markers.

Can't wait to go diving with it.


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## RedLED (Apr 19, 2007)

Filament,

Nice Submariner! Congratulations!

I have 4 Submariner's, and I love them. Of all my Rolex watches, I think the Sub is my favorite.

It is also the classic sport watch. Same design for over 50 years.

Best,

RedLed


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## Filament (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks RedLed!

What types of Sub's do you have? Any of the "classic vintage" ones?

I'll have to say I have been impressed with everything about it so far. The only "complaint" is the lume on the dial/hands isn't as bright as a Seiko/Omega, but the hands are skinnier too, so there's less surface area. The new maxi-dial seems to address that though. All in all - its still legible in the morning.

I also considered the SeaDweller, but it is taller/thicker, which was one of the things that I didn't like about the Marinemaster. I'm a big guy, but it was kindof annoying because it was always catching on things, banging into things, etc. The Sub, even though the trend is to go to BIG watches, is, to me, the perfect size and like you said, a classic design.

Got any pics?


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## RedLED (Apr 20, 2007)

Filament,

I have: SS Sub Date, TT w/Blue Dial and Bezel, Green LV (50th Anniversary) and, A No Date Sub.

I have many other models, but like the Sub's the best.
I collect the modern models only. I may pick up a vintage Sub in the future.

You may like the Green 16610LV, it has the maxi-dial, and bigger minute hand.

As for the lume, it does not glow as good as we all would like it to. Also, the new GMT Master has been updated and it has all of the features you like. It was just announced last week at the basel show in Switzerland.

Best,

RedLed


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## MacTech (Apr 20, 2007)

Robocop, if you're looking for a good Automatic watch, any Seiko 7S26 or 7S36 movement based watch would do you just fine, the Seiko 5 is a great, basic entry level piece, not fancy, just pure functionality, the Arc/SureFire of watches

I was in the beginning throes of WIS'ism, but i was able to cure myself.....

it started off simply enough, i needed a watch to replace my beat up old Timex Ironman, i had just discovered CPF and that wonderful radioactive light source Tritium, i wanted a watch with Tritium markers....

I stopped at my local Brookstone outlet and purchased a Luminox 3000 series with the blue dial, and all was good, i was satisfied....

then i began searching for reviews on it, and discovered the TimeZone website...

WARNING, DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!!!

I began to read up on the different watch technologies, Quartz, Kinetics, Solars, Automatics.......

I decided that i needed a Solar watch, so i stopped at my local Seiko factory outlet (WARNING, WARNING!!!!) and purchased my first "expensive" watch, a Pulsar 4000 series Solar Diver, and i was happy, i had all the watches i needed, a nice Tritium watch, and a nice Solar watch.....

I went to TimeZone to research *that* watch, and discovered something called an "Automatic" watch, a watch that needed no battery and was entirely mechanical, powered by the motion of the wearer's arm

COOL!, i *NEED* one of *those.....

Back to Seiko Outlet, purchase a "Cosmetically Flawed" Factory Second Seiko 5 (darned if I can find the flaw....) with the exhibition back so i can watch the balance wheel ticking away, that is when i'm not admiring the smooth sweep of the second hand.....

....back to TimeZone, read reviews....discover something called the Seiko "Monster" series.....

....surely you know the drill by now.....

Back to SFO, purchase (on sale) an Orange Monster on the polymer band (I HATE bracelets), back to TZ, read reviews......

......and suddenly, my need for another watch has vanished, the Orange Monster seems to have *CURED* my IWS, it's been at least 6 months since i've set foot in the SFO, and i have no desire to go back, i'm happy with my Orange Monster, I'm CURED!!!

.....until i saw the link to that Marathon Tritium lumed Automatic, that'd be the *perfect* watch for me, it has both of my wants in one watch, Tritium markers and an automatic movement, heck, i could purchase that one and sell all my other watches (except the Monster) on BST......

No, Must.....Resist......Price....too...high.....Monster...was....bad....enough!

So to sum up (Finally!), looking back, i should have simply purchased the Luminox and the Monster and called it good, as these two watches see the most wrist time......

Robocop, if this is to be an off-duty watch, just go ahead and buy the Seiko "Monster", simple, rugged, well built, time-tested and proven robust movement, incredibly good luminescent paint, a great, simple *tool* watch

it may prevent your descent into IWS'ism, then again, it could just as easily *start* your descent.....


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## Ritch (Apr 20, 2007)

RedLed, this is a great Rolex collection. Do you have some pics?

richard


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## PoliceScannerMan (Apr 20, 2007)

I'm not a watch guy, but I have a Rolex. My fiancee (Wife Now) gave it to me 5 weeks ago, the night before we got married. Its the Yacht Master in Stainless/Platinum. I have wanted this watch ever since the day I saw it.....

I was floored when she gave it to me. It was almost the best part of the whole marraige experience. :laughing: 

I dont need alot of watches, my GSAR, and two luminoxes and Rolex will do.....


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## RedLED (Apr 21, 2007)

PSM,

That is a great watch. I love the red second hand on the SS/Plat. YM.

I see the YM as a modern version of the Submariner. 

That watch will serve you for many, many years. What a great wedding present!

I will try to post some photos.

Best,

RL


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## zulu45 (Apr 21, 2007)

I don't wear anything THAT expensive, but I use this:




I'm a big fan of Seiko. Was only $200-something, at the time of purchase (a while back) and has never let me down.


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## adnj (Apr 21, 2007)

I like the styling of the Concord and TAG Heuer complex movements. The problem was wearing an 18k watch in the yard or on vacation.

I bought a Citizen Eco-Drive Chrono for diving about 12 years ago and I loved it! I just have to leave it on window sill to recharge. After the new Seiko Sportura was launched, I bought one of those. Rugged, chrono, TiCN coating and no scratches after two years of wear. I seem to never do anything with my automatics anymore except make sure that they are wound.


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## Robocop (Apr 21, 2007)

MacTech thanks for the detailed input as well as your story of watch hell...hehe sounds like you got caught up pretty fast.

I very much like that Monster series and found they have a blue version as well. I also very much like that Kinetic Diver series with the White Face.

I am looking at a site now that has several of the Seiko 5 Series with the 7S26 and 7S36 however I really did not know there were so many choices.....It looks like there are at least over 100 different ones on this site (roachman.com) So far I kind of like the Seiko 5 Sport version with the green second hand and a kind of white face. 

What does full Lumibright face mean?....does this mean the entire face stays illuminated all the time with tritium or something??


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## Ritch (Apr 21, 2007)

Here a quick pic of my favorite watches, which I am wearing alternately. 
From left above: Breitling Aerospace Titanium, Panerai Luminor Marina Automatic 40 mm, Omega Seamaster Professional 300m Chronometer, then IWC Mark XV Fliegeruhr, Rolex GMT Master and Chopard Mille Miglia Mod. 2001.









richard


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## CLHC (Apr 22, 2007)

Regarding expensive watches, there are many individuals that simply think of a watch as just an instrument to know the pace of time. On the other side of the spectrum, there are others who consider their watch as an extension of their personality. Such watch lovers don’t mind shelling out some *BIG FAT MOOLAH* to find that perfect piece to complement their persona. Depending on what poll one reads, here's what may be considered the top three (3) most expensive watches.

*1. Vacheron Constantin-Tour de l'Ile-($1.5 million)* The Swiss watchmaker marked its 250th anniversary with the world's busiest timepiece. The Tour de l'Ile has 834 separate parts and 16 complications, including tourbillon, power reserve, striking-mechanism torque, moon phase, perpetual calendar, sunrise time, leap-year indicator, sunset time, sky chart and others. At $1.5 million, it's the priciest timepiece in Vacheron Constantine's anniversary line.

*2. Blancpain-1735-($839,000)* In the No. 2 spot for the second year in a row is Blancpain's ultraslim 1735. The ultra slim, 42 mm platinum case itself a complication, according to Blancpain's owner, holds a perpetual calendar, split-second chronograph, minute repeater, tourbillon and moon phase minder. With a crocodile strap and 80-hour power reserve, it'll wear well with just about anything.

*3. Girard-Perregaux-Opera Three-($532,000)* what really differentiates Girard-Perregaux's Opera Three from all those other complicated watches is its ability to sound passing hours not with a beep, gong or chime, but with actual tunes. A convenient selector enables a choice of two different tunes—each of which can be personalized to the wearer's taste. With a 43 mm platinum case and a crocodile strap, it's a mellifluous timepiece that can be yours for $532,000.

Enjoy!


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## MacTech (Apr 22, 2007)

Robocop said:


> MacTech thanks for the detailed input as well as your story of watch hell...hehe sounds like you got caught up pretty fast.
> 
> I very much like that Monster series and found they have a blue version as well. I also very much like that Kinetic Diver series with the White Face.
> 
> ...



Heh, if i can help a fellow Flashaholic avoid becoming a WIS, it'll be worth it 

watches are just as addictive as flashlights and knives, by getting the Monster (or other reasonable Automatic) you'll be shortcutting the "buy lots of inexpensive watches because they're inexpensive" part of IWS'ism, it's the flashlight equivalent of buying a bunch of cheap flashlights because they're cheap and give you a quick fix, but ultimately leave you unsatisfied, so you look for more cheap fixes.....

the Monster is the equivalent of the SureFire 6P/G2, a good, solid, reasonably priced tool that gives a lot of bang for the buck, it's not the fanciest, or most sophisticated thing, but it gets the job done reliably

the most common Monsters available in the US are the Orange and Black Monsters, the Blue and Yellow monsters are Asian market models and expensive and difficult to find

the only difference between the 26 and 36 movements is the 36 has two more jewels (anti-friction bearings) but they're of dubious functionality, they're just a way to up the jewel count and raise the price on the "36" movement watches

the full Lumibrite face is just that, the entire face painted with Lumibrite luminescent paint, just like glow paint/powder, the lumibrite is charged by light (UV flashlights really supercharge the lume, one minute of exposure to 395nm UV will keep the watch glowing all evening) and wil slowly dim off over time, Lumibrite starts off *MUCH* brighter than Tritium (easily 3-5 times brighter), but very quickly loses that intense brightness, eventually settling down to a baseline glow that is about half the brightness of Trits


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## Lichtschalter (Apr 24, 2007)

Yes, watches are marvellous pieces of art and craftsmanship.

My EDC is a Heuer Monza - I just like the 60s Retro Style. I'm wearing it everyday since I got it, and I'm enjoying every second of it.






My next watch will probably be an IWC Ingenieur - if I can stop spending all my money on flashlights.  






But then again, I'm so happy with my Monza that I don't feel like I will ever need another watch again. :laughing:


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## Nylonhandle (Apr 26, 2007)

Hey man I don't have anything that expensive but my wife bought this for me for our engagement.

Not Swiss but the movement is one of the best in the world.

Seiko Marinemaster SBDX001 300M







http://www.network54.com/Forum/78440/message/1176668559/

http://www.network54.com/Forum/78440/message/1176836398/No+movement+pic,+but+a+big+one+of+the+front...

(Mine is the big black one and thanks to BrandonS of the Seiko and Citizen Watch forum for the these brilliant pics)

It's a full auto movement built by Seiko that they use in their top top top range the Grand Seiko.

I looked through all the Swiss watches and this stood out for me as being something special without looking stupidly expensive.

Bought mine here

www.seiyajapan.com

Amazing guy and accepts Paypal, any questions please ask

N


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## CLHC (Apr 26, 2007)

Nice watch and thanks for that link *Nylonhandle*!

I've never known of or seen a $628.00 Casio watch before! I learned something new today.

Enjoy!


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## PoliceScannerMan (Apr 27, 2007)

Fianlly took some pics of my Rolex, enjoy. I love this watch....


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## CLHC (Apr 28, 2007)

Nice looking YACHTMASTER. Great pics!


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## frogs3 (Apr 28, 2007)

It seems many of us have an "addictive" personality for well-made, "interesting" things. My Rolex DateJust is nearing its 37th year on my wrist, which I received as a gift from my Parents who were on holiday in CH in 1971 and brought it back. With regular service it continues to run perfectly, as watertight as when new, and it has been through most of my life's major events.

For those who wish to own the "pricey" brands, remember that with good research, a vintage item from, for example, Patek Philippe is as magnificent now as when new, at a fraction of the current prices.

I have a few other pieces which I wear more now, as that old Rolex is too sentimental to risk losing.

Why do we use mechanical watch technology, when it is totally obsoleted by quartz and radio-controlled regulation methods? For the same reason that we have too many flashlights that cost ridiculous amounts of money. There is a sense of pleasure in observing the mechanics of a watch through the sapphire back, which I believe is identical to the "rush" of evaluating the engineering of a new light that has been especially well-made.

So, succumb to these expensive addictions -- resistance is futile.

-hak


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## Ritch (Apr 29, 2007)

PoliceScannerMan,
Nice pics, a beautiful watch. Congratulations on your wife and your Yachtmaster.





richard


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## Isak Hawk (Apr 29, 2007)

Automatic watches are cool. A few days ago I ordered my first nice watch, a Sinn 656: http://watchbuys.com/Master/SI-021.htm

I really like the super legible dial; the only decoration is the logo. It's not exactly an IWC or Patek Philippe, but there's no way I can afford those on my salary. I hope I like it as much as I think I'm going to


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## Energie (Apr 29, 2007)

I really like big Zeno watches (diameter 47 mm, the adult version...



).
Inside the Zeno on the right is a pocket clockwork (right therm?). 
On the left a Rolex Sub for size comparison.






.


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## hugodrax (May 3, 2007)

frogs3 said:


> It seems many of us have an "addictive" personality for well-made, "interesting" things. My Rolex DateJust is nearing its 37th year on my wrist, which I received as a gift from my Parents who were on holiday in CH in 1971 and brought it back. With regular service it continues to run perfectly, as watertight as when new, and it has been through most of my life's major events.
> 
> For those who wish to own the "pricey" brands, remember that with good research, a vintage item from, for example, Patek Philippe is as magnificent now as when new, at a fraction of the current prices.
> 
> ...



Tell me about it I like Automatic movements. Expensive flashlights, watches ... Oh well.


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## wasabe64 (Aug 1, 2007)

My latest acquisition.

Too bad I can't blame this one on you guys. 

Not the most expensive, but definitely my favorite.


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## Kilovolt (Aug 1, 2007)

A Speedmaster is always a good choice. :thumbsup:

Congratulations.


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## CLHC (Aug 1, 2007)

Nice acquisition. Way to go!


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