# Is there such a thing as a 3500-4000K 90+ CRI LED?



## tobrien (Jan 13, 2014)

So I like high CRI stuff, but in all honesty, Cree's ~3000K high CRI LEDs are a bit too warm for me in most situations. Conversely, while the Nichia 219 series high CRI LEDs are great, sometimes I find them too close to 5000K _for my personal tastes_.

I really seem to find 4000K or just under it as my preferred color temp in all honesty. Does anyone make a high, 90+ CRI LED that is more "middle of the road" and not as warm as Cree but not as close to daylight white as Nichia?

This is something I started wondering today and I don't believe I've ever seen discussion of such an LED.

thanks guys!


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## THE_dAY (Jan 13, 2014)

Yup it would be Nichia as well. The tint bin you want is SW40 instead of SW45 which is the current batch of 219s that are around.
The SW40 looks to be between (~3750K- ~4250K) while the current SW45 ranges from (~4750K - ~4250K)
Maybe Illumination Supply could get a small batch as they seem to be in friendly terms with Nichia.:thumbsup:

Here I tried to overlap Nichia's tints with Cree's.


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## HarryN (Jan 15, 2014)

Philips Lumileds has a part that is very close to your goal LXM3-PW51. It is part of the high power / rebel family. I use them in my lights for the same reasons that you stated.


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## tobrien (Jan 16, 2014)

THE_dAY said:


> Yup it would be Nichia as well. The tint bin you want is SW40 instead of SW45 which is the current batch of 219s that are around.
> The SW40 looks to be between (~3750K- ~4250K) while the current SW45 ranges from (~4750K - ~4250K)
> Maybe Illumination Supply could get a small batch as they seem to be in friendly terms with Nichia.:thumbsup:
> 
> Here I tried to overlap Nichia's tints with Cree's.





HarryN said:


> Philips Lumileds has a part that is very close to your goal LXM3-PW51. It is part of the high power / rebel family. I use them in my lights for the same reasons that you stated.



thank you both so much! I actually almost didn't post this thread because I was assuming that there wouldn't be anything to meet my needs haha. thank you both again very, very much!

so HarryN and Day, which do y'all think would be cheaper and/or highest output at typical drive currents around 1 Amp?

I think the Nichia 219 SW40 range may be best because I already know they're directly compatible with XP-G(2) stuff. Is the LXM3-PW51 rebel stuff of that same footprint, too?

Day: thanks a million for making that image, btw. that is absolutely spectacularly useful!


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## HarryN (Jan 16, 2014)

It depends some on your application. For example, in a kitchen, low glare is more important, and "throw" usually is not a high on the list. In that case, you might be better off with an LED that has a larger light emission area to reduce surface brightness. (example rebel, or even a really large LED)

If the goal is more "throw", then surface brightness is a big deal, so a small LED / very narrow emission area might be the most critical aspect, and then a part like a Luxeon Z becomes interesting (not quite up to your CRI goal though) It is really small though - 2 dimes long x 1.5 dimes wide.

As far as foot print, I assume that you are working with LEDs mounted on a small board for your projects ? In that case, it might be possible to find a mounted LED on a circuit board with similar dimensions, but in many cases, the LEDs from each mfg have unique foot prints. I think this is partially to try to keep users in the same "brand camp", but it can go both ways.

As far as price, I just followed Lumiled's link to the Future web site, typed in the p/n and it gave a price of $ 1.55 for quantity 1 each. 10 years ago I paid $ 50 / each for LEDs with less output, less efficiency, and lower light quality, so any of the LEDs on the market seem pretty cheap to me.

Which LED / brand you pick will probably have more to do with the convenience of installation than price, as Nichia / Lumileds / Cree / Osram all make great parts.


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## tobrien (Jan 19, 2014)

HarryN said:


> It depends some on your application. For example, in a kitchen, low glare is more important, and "throw" usually is not a high on the list. In that case, you might be better off with an LED that has a larger light emission area to reduce surface brightness. (example rebel, or even a really large LED)
> 
> If the goal is more "throw", then surface brightness is a big deal, so a small LED / very narrow emission area might be the most critical aspect, and then a part like a Luxeon Z becomes interesting (not quite up to your CRI goal though) It is really small though - 2 dimes long x 1.5 dimes wide.
> 
> ...



thanks man! my application is simply using in flashlights. Most of my lights have the XP-G and XM-L footprint for their LEDs, so I'm curious if the Philips Lumileds stuff is a direct replacement so far as footprint i guess


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## HarryN (Jan 20, 2014)

Many commercial flashlights (certainly not all) are built from LEDs mounted on a small "star" or "round" shaped circuit board. The board deals with the specific LED footprint and heat transfer so you don't have to, and makes final flashlight assembly easier for the manufacturer.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you should 
- pick a couple lights that you are considering to upgrade
- unscrew the front parts off enough to look inside at the LED circuit board
- not really worry about exactly what the specific LED foot print is

Because most likely you are going to replace a "circuit board with an LED mounted on it", not "an LED by itself" because that can be kind of a pain unless you are setup for it.

Post a few pictures of what you see and we can help guide you where to find some viable options.

Once you reach this point, consider to start a thread in the home build section and lots of people will chime in with opinions for you to average together.


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## HarryN (Jan 20, 2014)

Take a look at this thread in the home built section:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?378690-Gladius-Night-Ops-XP-G2

The original LED in that light was pre-mounted on a round LED circuit board. You can see that he used a modern, completely different brand LED pre-mounted on a round circuit board to replace the original one. What mattered for that project was that the LEDs had similar electrical specifications and that they were both pre-mounted on a similar shaped board.

The LED itself has really tiny features, but there is not need to dig down to that level for upgrading most lights, because the board acts like a mechanical adapter.


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## tobrien (Jan 28, 2014)

gotcha, thanks for the awesome input man! I don't do mods myself... yet... but really am curious in case I enlist someone else to mod in a candidate LED to this light or that light

thanks again for your incredible help!


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## psychbeat (Jan 28, 2014)

I too wish there were 90+ CRI emitters in the 3500-4000K range. 
I usually prefer my loCRI neutrals over my 219s in outdoor situations. 
I do have an L3 L10 219 that has an unusually warm 219 that's probably from the warmer bin #
It's pretty nice, but the power of an XML2 or throw of an XPE2 in a neutral + hiCRI rating would be amazing ...


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## tobrien (Jan 29, 2014)

psychbeat said:


> I too wish there were 90+ CRI emitters in the 3500-4000K range.
> I usually prefer my loCRI neutrals over my 219s in outdoor situations.
> I do have an L3 L10 219 that has an unusually warm 219 that's probably from the warmer bin #
> It's pretty nice, but the power of an XML2 or throw of an XPE2 in a neutral + hiCRI rating would be amazing ...



I like the way you think


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## Marcturus (Feb 4, 2014)

ledsupply is having a $.99 closeout on those LXM3-PW51 Rebels.

Mouser is only offering the 2700 and 3000K CCT versions of the hi-CRI Oslon Square range, LCW CQAR.CC


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## tobrien (Feb 4, 2014)

Marcturus said:


> ledsupply is having a $.99 closeout on those LXM3-PW51 Rebels.
> 
> Mouser is only offering the 2700 and 3000K CCT versions of the hi-CRI Oslon Square range, LCW CQAR.CC


thanks for the tip!


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## ma tumba (Nov 26, 2014)

Tucker, have you got anything based on this information exchange? I am right in the same boat these days.


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## Toolboxkid (Nov 26, 2014)

I'm right there too, wanting to upgrade everything that I has in cool white over to the ~4k range. Will be following this post to see what comes of it. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## Anders Hoveland (Dec 3, 2014)

My ideal color temperature would probably be around 4500K. 4000K is a little too yellowish and 5000K is a little too bluish. But 4500K seems like a good cool neutral white color of light. Unfortunately they do not seem to have many LED options in 4500K, it's either 4000K or 5000K.

(in reality I would choose a much lower color temperature LED if I had to be in the room for a long time, because the blue wavelength in LEDs is a little harsh on my eyes)


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## Jaegerbomb (Dec 3, 2014)

Anders Hoveland said:


> My ideal color temperature would probably be around 4500K. 4000K is a little too yellowish and 5000K is a little too bluish. But 4500K seems like a good cool neutral white color of light. Unfortunately they do not seem to have many LED options in 4500K, it's either 4000K or 5000K.
> 
> (in reality I would choose a much lower color temperature LED if I had to be in the room for a long time, because the blue wavelength in LEDs is a little harsh on my eyes)



Part of my reason for purchasing the Spark SF3 was that it hits this 4500 bracket, from most reviews I've seen the SF3 & SF5 hit the 4500 or slightly below really well... 

Just letting people know there are some out of the box options too 

I love reading these custom threads though... makes me want to tinker...


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## Marcturus (Dec 3, 2014)

"Special K" for special needs kid:
http://www.soselectronic.com/?str=371&artnum=158145


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