# Is there such a thing as an incandescent EDC?



## jag-engr (Sep 9, 2008)

For the record, I have nothing against incandescent lights, but only own one - the PT Surge.

I think incandescent lights actually provide better color rendition and depth perception, but due to such problems, as lack of regulation, inefficient runtimes, short bulb lifespans, and size, I have always used an LED for my EDC light, and usually for my headlamps (though I still have a soft spot for the Petzl Zoom).

Are there any incandescent EDC lights?

Criteria for an EDC light:
two modes (more would be OK) - low (1-10 lumens), high (50-150 lumens)
single cell - AAA, AA, or CR123
compact
reasonable bulb longevity
regulated output

Does such a light exist? Is it even possible with current incandescent technology?

_Edited to correct spelling._


----------



## ampdude (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Apparently not if you read the rest of the forum.

My EDC's have been incandescent xenon/halogen forever.

I've never found the use for different modes in an EDC, I only consider them a hindrance. By your criteria, none of my longtime EDC's are actually EDC's. So what are they? :laughing:

I guess the A2 fits most of your criteria, but the low mode is LED. And it is two battery.


----------



## cernobila (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

With all those criteria......you answered your own question in the negative......in my case the E2E with 1x 17670 and EO-E1R is an EDC that gives a beautiful beam that no LED can match.......


----------



## lctorana (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

None of the 10 little pocket torches I carry daily, LED or incan, qualify as "EDC" by this definition.

They are all single-mode.


----------



## Sgt. LED (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Man! The A2 is the only thing I can think of that's even close.

Where's fivemega at?!


----------



## divine (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

I think the E-Series Surefires are EDC lights. Maybe your idea of an EDC is an Executive idea of EDC.

Some people need a light several times to get through their day.. Working in dark places... and to them, a much larger light is acceptable as an EDC. 

My idea of an EDC is more of convenience than of necessity. My EDC is used a couple times a week, and NEEDED a lot less than that.

I actually do wish I needed light more often.


----------



## greenLED (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



jag-engr said:


> Are there any incadescent EDC lights?
> 
> Criteria for an EDC light:
> two modes (more would be OK) - low (1-10 lumens), high (50-150 lumens)
> ...


The short answer to your main question is "yes". However, none that will match all requirements. For starters, the only regulated incandescent light out there is the SF A2 (which is perfectly OK for EDC, BTW).

:thinking: Actually, the A2 is the only light that I can think of that might match those requirements. That is assuming you're OK with the low level being supplied by LED. Multi-mode incandescent lights are a rarety.

If you're willing to do without the regulated output and the two modes, the SF e2e is a nice EDC light. Depending on your needs, I'd also consider the Strion. Heck, even a 2AA minimag can be used for EDC.


----------



## nerdgineer (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Multi-level is real hard for incans. Full regulation is expensive and not so compact. However, there are some nice simple EDC candidates such as the PT Blast which will give you full spectrum, etc. I've seen them as low as $6 shipped in the past. I tried carrying one briefly and it wasn't that bad...


----------



## JNewell (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

The real question is: what makes you think those critera define any kind of standard for EDC? I have been EDCing an 6Z 16+/7 for more than a decade. It has more miles on it than you could count. It has had numerous window replacements, three bezel replacements and two tailcap replacements. The only thing that's original is the body tube. If it's somehow inadequate for any EDC task, including going into harm's way, it's news to me and the 6Z.


----------



## ampdude (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Yea, the only multi-mode incans I can think of are the 10X and 9N. Both Surefires. Both have two different lamp assemblies.

Well technically that's not correct. Two different bulbs anyways.

And the 10X is not an EDC light by any definition.


----------



## Rob187 (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

They are some hard to meet criteria you have set there.

I concur with the other views - an A2 is as close as you'll get.


----------



## JNewell (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Rob187 said:


> They are some hard to meet criteria you have set there.
> 
> I concur with the other views - an A2 is as close as you'll get.


 
At least one well-known firearms trainer carried an A2 for several years before moving to the Gladius.


----------



## ampdude (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



JNewell said:


> At least one well-known firearms trainer carried an A2 for several years before moving to the Gladius.



I'll bet he regrets that.. Big goofy light with non-tactical baby blue LED output 

Am I the only one that thinks the Gladius is the perfect mall ninja light?


----------



## greenLED (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



ampdude said:


> Am I the only one that thinks the Gladius is the perfect mall ninja light?


It's actually a very well thought-out _duty (i.e. tactical) _light. Despite its size it's very easy to use together with a gun, which I cannot say of other, so called "tactical", lights.


----------



## carrot (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

A2 is as close as it gets IMHO. Sadly I don't even EDC it anymore, after downsizing my EDC to as small and minimal as I could be comfortable with. I wouldn't mind a single-celled "A1" though... with a bezel-down clip like on the E1B.


----------



## mdocod (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

I've been EDCing an M6 since the day my holster for it showed up.

It's a RipOffs holster, so it has the metal clip thing, it hangs off the edge of my left front pocket, down lower than belt line and out of the way. 

Yes, I'm a total dork.

Eric


----------



## Sgt. LED (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

EDC'ing an M6, no pal you're not a dork. You're my hero!
:laughing:


----------



## Art Vandelay (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

It sounds like the Surefire A2 is what you want.


----------



## StandardBattery (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



mdocod said:


> I've been EDCing an M6 since the day my holster for it showed up. ...


Wow that's being prepared. I wish I could find a smaller LED that would perform like the M6 (even on the MN20). When I light the M6 it doesn't throw a pencil beam, it lights a path that's full of detail. My brightest LED is likely my TK11, but that pales next to the M6 when it comes to my usage as a utility type light, especially outdoors.

Is there any LED Light that come close to having a beam profile of the MN20 in the M6?


----------



## JNewell (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Sgt. LED said:


> EDC'ing an M6, no pal you're not a dork. You're my hero!
> :laughing:


 

What I want to know is, did he get the optional wheels kit??? :nana: Just kidding. Love my M6!


----------



## JNewell (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



StandardBattery said:


> Is there any LED Light that come close to having a beam profile of the MN20 in the M6?


 
Not in a single emitter lights, AFAIK. At the risk of calling all kinds of wrath down upon myself, are you sure it has to be an incan? There are a lot of LED lights that would easily fit your criteria.


----------



## jag-engr (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



JNewell said:


> The real question is: what makes you think those critera define any kind of standard for EDC?


 
Because that's what I want for an EDC. :nana:

Seriously, we all have different criteria, and I'm putting out some feelers to see how close I can get to my preferred EDC in the incan world.
_________________



nerdgineer said:


> Multi-level is real hard for incans. Full regulation is expensive and not so compact. However, there are some nice simple EDC candidates such as the PT Blast which will give you full spectrum, etc. I've seen them as low as $6 shipped in the past. I tried carrying one briefly and it wasn't that bad...


 
I'm quite pleased with my PT Surge, so maybe I should look into the Blast. I don't know why we don't see more side-by-side AAA lights. *Does anyone know how the PT Blast would do with Eneloops?*
_________________



greenLED said:


> The short answer to your main question is "yes". However, none that will match all requirements. For starters, the only regulated incandescent light out there is the SF A2 (which is perfectly OK for EDC, BTW).
> 
> :thinking: Actually, the A2 is the only light that I can think of that might match those requirements. That is assuming you're OK with the low level being supplied by LED. Multi-mode incandescent lights are a rarety.
> 
> If you're willing to do without the regulated output and the two modes, the SF e2e is a nice EDC light. Depending on your needs, I'd also consider the Strion. Heck, even a 2AA minimag can be used for EDC.


 
I will have to look into the A2. I've been trying to avoid Surefires, though. I fear irrepairable damage to my wallet.


----------



## matrixshaman (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

There's a Twintask 1L Streamlight that has 2 levels - one incan and one LED. Poor beam also I believe. Cheap enough and they've got the one CR123 battery model that is small enough for EDC. I just don't think you'll like the beam quality though.


----------



## JNewell (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



jag-engr said:


> I will have to look into the A2. I've been trying to avoid Surefires, though. I fear irrepairable damage to my wallet.


 
Yes, you will...and yes, you should...  The A2 is a funny light. I was going to give mine to my wife...thought about it a little and couldn't do it. I don't use it a lot but I couldn't bring myself to part with it. :tinfoil:


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



> * Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*


Are you serious?? I'm yet to find something to replace my trusty *SureFire E1E* Black-HA. That is IMHO, the best EDC light hands down.


----------



## divine (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

You could get a [email protected] modded to 1C, AW's soft starter, AW's C cell, and some low voltage lamp. 

I bet it's tough to get 150 incandescent lumens out of one cell.


----------



## lctorana (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Are you serious?? I'm yet to find something to replace my trusty *SureFire E1E* Black-HA. That is IMHO, the best EDC light hands down.


 
You heard the OP.

If it's not multi-mode and regulated, it's not an EDC. Never mind if you carry it every day, and use it every day, the criteria has now been redefined.

And if you don't like it, he's just stuck his tongue out at you.


----------



## AzN1337c0d3r (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

We don't have multimode incans because the lower light setting would make it very inefficient.


----------



## Ubi (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Other than the regulated criteria, you could try an E1E with an upgraded bulb, rechargeables and this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177185
(kudos to nekomane for the discovery, I have no experience with it tho). Meets all the other requirements.


----------



## tango44 (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Dont need such thing, my E2E will stay forever with me!


----------



## divine (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



lctorana said:


> You heard the OP.
> 
> If it's not multi-mode and regulated, it's not an EDC. Never mind if you carry it every day, and use it every day, the criteria has now been redefined.
> 
> And if you don't like it, he's just stuck his tongue out at you.


Two modes is easy with an E1E... just change the Lumens Factory lamps. :twothumbs


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



divine said:


> Two modes is easy with an E1E... just change the Lumens Factory lamps. :twothumbs


4-modes actually: MN01, HO-E1A, HO-E1R, EO-E1R.


----------



## FlashInThePan (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

If I understand correctly, you'd prefer to use an incan because it offers better color rendition and depth perception, but you're settling on LED-based lights instead because they provide better functionality (regulation, multiple levels, etc.).

If that's the case, you should definitely consider the new high CRI LEDs, which provide a light spectrum that's *much* closer to that of an incan. I'm an avowed incan junky myself; I tell ya, there's just nothing like the warm glow and color rendition of an incan. Just like you, I've EDCd my LEDs because they do what incans can't - provide flexibility and dependability. But the times, they are a changin'!

The new high CRI LEDs are impressive. Reds and greens pop out, and the LEDs are much, much better for natural colors and the outdoors. Look at Don (McGizmo's) sundrop, Fenix's TK20, some of TexLite's recent mod jobs. These use the Nichia 083 LED, and Seoul's high CRI offerings. You'll be amazed. (The first time I lit up a high CRI LED, I literally spent the first ten minutes walking around, pointing it at things, and going "wow." Skin actually looked like skin, dirt looked like dirt, wood looked like wood, and red and green flowers looked like....well, you know what's coming here.)

That said, if it just has to be an incan - and as an incan fan, I'd definitely understand - the closest fit would probably be an A2.

- FITP


----------



## Sgt. LED (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Has anyone else noticed the trend of advice in this thread?


----------



## matrixshaman (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Ubi said:


> Other than the regulated criteria, you could try an E1E with an upgraded bulb, rechargeables and this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177185
> (kudos to nekomane for the discovery, I have no experience with it tho). Meets all the other requirements.



Well there you go - the lightsaver 3 level 5 function tailswitch for an SF E1E! They seem to have the 'IQ switch' on some lights although I don't know if that's the same as the one made for [email protected] www.lightsaver.co.za
I don't see the switch nekomane showed on their web site though. This seems like something that would sell. I've got a special tailcap for the SF 6P that has regular light or strobe. Suprisingly it also works with the LED dropin modules for the 6P.


----------



## divine (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Sgt. LED said:


> Has anyone else noticed the trend of advice in this thread?


Yes, I know... and it's not very good. But...

This is a very tall order for an incandescent. It would probably be cheaper to have two incandescent EDC's to meet the requirements than it would be to have the multi-mode in one light, let alone the regulation.

The edc requested is probably $200 minimum, with a couple to a few minutes of runtime on the high mode.


----------



## ampdude (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



FlashInThePan said:


> If I understand correctly, you'd prefer to use an incan because it offers better color rendition and depth perception, but you're settling on LED-based lights instead because they provide better functionality (regulation, multiple levels, etc.).
> 
> If that's the case, you should definitely consider the new high CRI LEDs, which provide a light spectrum that's *much* closer to that of an incan. I'm an avowed incan junky myself; I tell ya, there's just nothing like the warm glow and color rendition of an incan. Just like you, I've EDCd my LEDs because they do what incans can't - provide flexibility and dependability. But the times, they are a changin'!
> 
> ...



Can you point me toward some beamshots vs. incan?

I would like to see a 3 dimensional setting with both shots.


----------



## matrixshaman (Sep 10, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Surefire E1E - about $60-$70 street price. 
This unit which will give it 3 levels and other functions if you want - this is the one nekomane found and mentioned above. I found one online here:
click here
for about $32 USD. Total around $90 to $100 - not too bad for a Surefire with this special add on.


----------



## jag-engr (Sep 11, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



FlashInThePan said:


> If I understand correctly, you'd prefer to use an incan because it offers better color rendition and depth perception, but you're settling on LED-based lights instead because they provide better functionality (regulation, multiple levels, etc.).


 
Well-stated, my dilemma exactly.
_______________ 



FlashInThePan said:


> The new high CRI LEDs are impressive. ...Don (McGizmo's) sundrop, Fenix's TK20, some of TexLite's recent mod jobs. These use the Nichia 083 LED, and Seoul's high CRI offerings. You'll be amazed.


 
I like the new high CRI LEDs, too. Unfortunately, McGizmos are *way* outside of my price range. :sigh: I don't like the looks of the TK20. I have PMed TexLite about doing a high CRI Seoul mod, but the emitters are not a direct fit for the EX10 or a Fenix head. Otherwise, I would have TexLite, or another capable forumite, mod one for me.


----------



## yellow (Sep 12, 2008)

when EDC is really important (and excluding the 2 brightness levels, which are almost impossible with an incan, at least with a "one bulb" incan) there is a light:
Maglite Solitaire!
and now, You incan guys, compare the output of this one with similar sized EDC led lights and type again about better color rendering and such


... it always comes to the same thing: arguing with lights that are in no way ECD, small sized, or long running, to be superior ...
(Bulbs eating 3+ Amps and more, compared to 0.8 A Led. Wonder these non "normal" ones are brighter?)


----------



## js (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

The SL TT 1L is actually pretty close to what you want, but lacking the regulation.

ditto for the SF A2, but lacking the 1 battery criteria.

If you're worried about you wallet, check out the TT 1L. It's a neat little light. IIRC the bezel is a bit big for my taste, but I could be wrong.

I EDC'ed the SF A2 for like three years or something, by the way, so, yes, there is such a thing as an incadescent EDC. And before that was the E2e. LOL!

Good luck!


----------



## Illum (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

I would look into either one of these:

Light: surefire 9AN commander
Features: two lamp assemblies in one, 20/140 lumens 
Criteria: (satisfy criterion 1, 2, 2a, 3)
Goods: Saves batteries [more $$$ for you], consistent output...until the battery dies, literally
Bads: NiCD's self discharge over time, so its EDC all the way and make sure you USE IT.:wave: 

Light: Surefire A2 Aviator
Features: two modes, low on LED, ~10/80 Lumens (tested by user mcGizmo], regulated output [discharge curve here]
Criteria: (satisfy criterion 1, 2a, 3, 4]
Goods: known regulated output which boosts lamp life and outputs "whate balance" color temperature in the range of 3300-3500K. Pocketable, the lamp can be bought via third party sources: see lumen factory, lighthound. 
Bads: not really two mode incan LED artiacts could take time to get used to, 2xcr123a [by given criteria this is a disadvantage, but in the world of lights, this is nothing short of good]



jag-engr said:


> Criteria for an EDC light:
> 1. two modes (more would be OK) - low (1-10 lumens), high (50-150 lumens)
> 2. single cell - AAA, AA, or CR123
> 2a. compact
> ...



EDC is a matter of user preference...so theres no right or wrong answer 
1. A xenon lamp is designed to operate at a certain voltage it should be drive at that fixed voltage as any increase or decrease wipes out your efficiency curve...now two lamps could be a choice: surefire 9AN commander two lamp assemblies in one, 20/140 lumens, uses one One B90 Ni-Cad cell and may perform reasonably well assuming the B90 Ni-Cad provides continuous current output through out its discharge curve.:thinking:

2. AA, AAA, or any alkalines should not be considered to any degree as ideal incan power sources due to high internal resistance. now Princeton Tec's created Surge using AA's by series paralleling 8AAs and that was impressive, but Surge is one of the few that came up from this idea:naughty:
cr123A or other forms of cells may be preferred depending on usage or application. Your choice of "single cell" instead of "multiple cell" puts serious limitations to the variety you can choose from because the light is designed using the physical limitations of the cell it is using. :shrug:Say if the lamp chosen for the light is 12W, driving a 12W lamp using 1xcr123A means the lamp will draw upwards of over 4 amps at start from the battery...this is likely to be dangerous and usually not recommended, neither will the light manufacturer who would instead go for 2xcr123a and make adjustments that increase the voltage and decrease the current needed for the lamp or simply downgrade to a lesser wattage lamp. _a decrease in current draw will also elongate your runtime curve_.

2a. Compact is also relative to the end-user's personal preference and perhaps his/her style. Personally I consider the surefire M6 a compact, pocketable light, apparently not many others think so...

3. Lamp longevity depends on several factors: manufacturer quality and user maintenance. if the inert gas filled inside the envelope should leak due to envelope failure the lamp will have a very short life, if during installation the user accidentally left oil on the envelope [I.E. hand installation without protection] it may explode when used. When a lamp is first turned on there will be a surge current to the lamp, often this shortens lamp life by burning off a portion of tungsten every time the light is turned on, _this is why you don't see the strobe feature on incandescents_. This is where "PWM soft starters" come in...and its about regulation from here. Second, unlike LED lights that are solid state in nature... incandescent lamps have to worry about stuff like the halogen cycle and shock resistance.:green::sigh:
user Icebreak did a good job explaining the issues with incans here 


Icebreak said:


> The halogen process of re-depositing gaseous tungsten from the gaseous tungsten/halogen compound back on to the filament is delicate. Too low low of a temperature and it begins to fail. To high of a temperature and it begins to fail. If the fill gas escapes due to a flaw in the glass envelope the process will fail.
> 
> If the lamp is being driven too hard the filament may become too hot. If the filament has a thin spot on it that spot will become too hot. If the filament has some shock fatigue that area may become too hot.
> 
> ...


*
Its best to use incans for extended periods of time and LEDs for momentary lighting, or else forget about reasonable bulb longevity.* Lamp life varies between light variations, sometimes two lamps from the same batch is different in such a way that blows minds. Generally if you can get 30 hours out of your light consider it a winner. 

4. Regulated outputs beyond my technical knowledge but EDCable lights to choose from are limited basically to the A2 aviator alone when considering "compact" pocketable dimensions.


----------



## jag-engr (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Illum_the_nation said:


> *Its best to use incans for extended periods of time and LEDs for momentary lighting, or else forget about reasonable bulb longevity.*


 
An astute summary. I think I will slip back over to the LED lights forum...


----------



## JNewell (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



jag-engr said:


> An astute summary. I think I will slip back over to the LED lights forum...


 
Well, it's been a good thread and it probably still has some life! 

The one real drawback of LEDs in my mind (and I have quite a few incans - see below) is spectral coverage, and they are improving on that. 

Everyone should have an E1e with the LF bulb, though.


----------



## Juggernaut (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



greenLED said:


> The short answer to your main question is "yes". However, none that will match all requirements. For starters, the only regulated incandescent light out there is the SF A2 (which is perfectly OK for EDC, BTW).
> 
> :thinking: Actually, the A2 is the only light that I can think of that might match those requirements. That is assuming you're OK with the low level being supplied by LED. Multi-mode incandescent lights are a rarety.
> 
> If you're willing to do without the regulated output and the two modes, the SF e2e is a nice EDC light. Depending on your needs, I'd also consider the Strion. Heck, even a 2AA minimag can be used for EDC.


 
My xenon modded lithium AAA Minimag puts out 30+ lumens of pure white light and I carry it EDC on my key chain. Though it’s more of backup. 
Green lantern, I pretty sure you know every thing, so correct me if I’m wrong but I thought the M300 from wolf eyes was regulated.

(Edit):
Oh! It just struck me that my crappy cardboard 9volt NiMH “11.4v really” hotwire light could be used as a incandescent EDC. I’ve done it plenty of times “fit’s well in front cargo leg pocket, while being a bit wide:sigh:, but very short. And it’s got 180+ lumens:naughty: “well for like 4-6 minuets at least:hahaha:.”


----------



## Illum (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Sorry to make you feel that way, it is hard to compare incan with LED because of the different properties thats required to create both. The criteria(s) you've given appear to be LED-oriented with the exception of lamp longevity so I decided to clear up a few otherwise overlooked details:thumbsup:



jag-engr said:


> An astute summary. I think I will slip back over to the LED lights forum...



Generally I think of momentary use of incandescents is like turning the car on for 3 minutes then turn it off...."severe service" is what the mechanics calls it.

That is, of course that the lamp is being driven at the designed wattage...a minimag wouldn't hurt its lamps doing momentary on because the lamps never get the voltage or current it was meant for.Surefire lamps and others, shutting down the light during which the halogen cycle hasn't even been warmed up in an open invitation to accumulate tungsten atoms away from the filament:duh2:oo:

FYI, LEDs aside: my xenon EDCs 
E1e-BK + 1xAWRCR123A + LF-HO-E1R
E2D-BK + 1XAW17670 + LF-EO-E1R
A2-HA-WH

My LED EDC selections
Fenix E01
Fenix L0D-CE
Streamlight Stylus
"TW4" Surefire E1e-HA + KL4-HA + AWRCR123A
"E2L" Surefire L4 body + KX2-WH


----------



## PhotonBoy (Sep 12, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Before I joined CPF and became enlightened, I carried a [email protected] Solitaire AAA light on my keychain. **Very** dim, but far superior to nothing at all.

Now I EDC at least three lights: 1 green coin cell light and a Fenix L0D Q1 on my keychain plus a NightCore D10 in my pocket.


----------



## discoverEDC (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

jag-engr,

Look at this thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202363


----------



## Chrontius (Sep 14, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Surefire Aviator. When carried with a good holster, it's not very obvious, and as easy to carry as the few one-cell lights I've tried.

Aside from that, what's to stop me from running a TrifluPIC to a Surefire MA02/MN02 instead of to an SSC P4? Nothing I can think of. This is definitely within the realm of possibility, but nobody has done it economically yet.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Sep 14, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Chrontius said:


> Surefire Aviator. When carried with a good holster, it's not very obvious, and as easy to carry as the few one-cell lights I've tried.
> 
> Aside from that, what's to stop me from running a TrifluPIC to a Surefire MA02/MN02 instead of to an SSC P4? Nothing I can think of. This is definitely within the realm of possibility, but nobody has done it economically yet.



Sounds intresting. Streamlight sells a PWM tailcap for the 20X, or did sell one. JS, did a write up. It worked, providing dimming and a strobe. The PWM worked off of the full output of the LA, and there was very little color shift in dimming mode, and the halogen cycle was not affected. I bring this up because it is possible to provide multistage output with incan lights, if you are running the correct circuit.

Bill


----------



## SureAddicted (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



jag-engr said:


> An astute summary. I think I will slip back over to the LED lights forum...




Exactly what I thought, Going by the title of the thread, I knew you were up to no good, thanks for proving my point jag.


----------



## Icebreak (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

SureAddicted -

It seems that with every LED vs Incandescent thread that comes up on the bi-monthly schedule I learn a little more. It's great isn't it?



cernobila said:


> With all those criteria......you answered your own question in the negative......in my case the E2E with 1x 17670 and EO-E1R is an EDC that gives a beautiful beam that no LED can match.......



That's the bad boy the blows away the A2 Strion? I can't remember if it was you or someone else that pointed me to a thread that used an E2D. That E series is definitely EDC sized. 90 lighthound lumens. I still want to try that out.



Ubi said:


> Other than the regulated criteria, you could try an E1E with an upgraded bulb, rechargeables and this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177185
> (kudos to nekomane for the discovery, I have no experience with it tho). Meets all the other requirements.



That's cool as all get out, Ubi. I didn't know about that.



lctorana said:


> You heard the OP.
> 
> If it's not multi-mode and regulated, it's not an EDC. Never mind if you carry it every day, and use it every day, the criteria has now been redefined.
> 
> And if you don't like it, he's just stuck his tongue out at you.



Oh well, then my bad. I didn't know that incandescent EDC was defined by all the possible arguments against them. Slick.



Illum_the_nation said:


> EDC is a matter of user preference...so theres no right or wrong answer
> 
> user Icebreak did a good job explaining the issues with incans here



User preference. Agreed. No right or wrong answer.



Icebreak said:


> The halogen process of re-depositing gaseous tungsten from the gaseous tungsten/halogen compound back on to the filament is delicate. Too low low of a temperature and it begins to fail. To high of a temperature and it begins to fail.



_js_ debunked this to some extent in the Race to Failure thread. He explained that the lamps we use are designed to be less reliant on the halogen process and that temperature fluctuations were not as big of a factor in the efficiency of the re-depositation of gaseous tungsten on the filament as it was in older lamps using more basic atmospheres.



yellow said:


> ... it always comes to the same thing: arguing with lights that are in no way ECD, small sized, or long running, to be superior ...
> (Bulbs eating 3+ Amps and more, compared to 0.8 A Led. Wonder these non "normal" ones are brighter?)



And no matter how many times we post perfectly comparable intensity and size torch beamshots (like in the last LED vs Incandescent thread a couple of weeks ago) you "LED only" guys seem to be challenged by memory. Could it be that it's the exclusive use of LED light that is causing that? No matter.

Here's a 65 year old incan that projects a beautiful flood of light that contains the full banquet of colors. It is a wonderful piece that is very pleasant on the eyes. It likes all colors including yellow.


----------



## divine (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



jag-engr said:


> An astute summary. I think I will slip back over to the LED lights forum...


One good thing to note is that Deerelight is making a small light that has a 5A Q2 Cree in it. It is probably worth looking at when it comes out.

To me... Incans have moved to a light you keep around for when you need it, close but not in your pocket. Unless it's an E1E or E2E and a LED edc.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



divine said:


> I think the E-Series Surefires are EDC lights. Maybe your idea of an EDC is an Executive idea of EDC.
> 
> Some people need a light several times to get through their day.. Working in dark places... and to them, a much larger light is acceptable as an EDC.
> 
> ...



I just have to say something about this. You can need your light more often when you turn off the lights at night and walk around using your EDC. You must make an excuse for using your lights, as all true flashaholics do. When you have more than one EDC, you can compare them to each other, again with the lights out. That is the fun in it. Take walks at night, and use your flashlight even if there is a lot of ambient light around. When you go to the bathroom at night, use your EDC, don't turn on those nasty house lights. See, you can really need your flashlight(s), if you are determined to be a true flashaholic.

Bill


----------



## brighterisbetter (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Well put Bill, I try to do the same as you suggested. Despite having my EDC at all times, even lounging around the house in underwear, I also grab a C2 and carry it with me to the living room while watching TV, JUST IN CASE the power goes out. :twothumbs


----------



## jag-engr (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



SureAddicted said:


> Exactly what I thought, Going by the title of the thread, I knew you were up to no good, thanks for proving my point jag.


 
:shakehead We're talking about *flashlights*, SureAddicted. Calm down.
_____________



divine said:


> To me... Incans have moved to a light you keep around for when you need it, close but not in your pocket. Unless it's an E1E or E2E and a LED edc.


 
Probably a legitimate observation.

If I have to light up a large area, nothing does so as nicely as my PT Surge. Since discovering Duracell white-tops (Eneloops), I don't have to feel bad about using it.

Someday, I'm going to do an ROP mod, but, right now, I'm more focused on EDC lights, which are more likely to get used.


----------



## discoverEDC (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

jag-engr,
Build your own high CRI led, take a look at the attached link. High CRI led's render color much better than regular leds and you can build one from any luxeon or seoul host.

Walt




discoverEDC said:


> jag-engr,
> 
> Look at this thread:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202363


----------



## Illum (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Icebreak said:


> That's the bad boy the blows away the A2 Strion? I can't remember if it was you or someone else that pointed me to a thread that used an E2D. That E series is definitely EDC sized. 90 lighthound lumens. I still want to try that out.



Icebreak, PM sent


----------



## Sgt. LED (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

I smell a killer deal!


----------



## Icebreak (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Sgt. LED said:


> I smell a killer deal!


Indeed! What a guy, that Illum_the_nation. :thumbsup:


----------



## Illum (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Off topic


----------



## SureAddicted (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



jag-engr said:


> :shakehead We're talking about *flashlights*, SureAddicted. Calm down.
> _____________
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah your right, we are talking about flashlights, that's because this is a flashlight orientated site.

It doesn't bother me one way or another what we're talkn about, be it flashlights or matches. You could of went about it in a better way, the title is what got me.


----------



## Icebreak (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

 jag-engr –

Taking into account an averaged point of view of a group of incandescent flashlight enthusiasts it should be somewhat understandable why your original post is getting some flack. In this incandescent forum the title of the thread presented is this, “*Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*” with an embedded question of, “Are there any incadescent EDC lights?”. It’s as if the post questions the validity of a decision to use small incans. Many of us use small incandescents and their use is valid. Most if not all incandescent aficionados use small LED lights as well and their use is valid. These decisions are based on personal preferences. 

Then the criteria presented redefines EDC emphasizing the perceived weakest points of incandescent flashlights. Designing a criteria set that yields an empty set as the answer is easy to do and easily recognizable. Most know about the lamp life limitations not being near what LEDs are. The moment the 30 hr lamp longevity variable quantity is discussed the solution attempt self collapses. The OP declares the failure and exits the discussion due to it being unfruitful in attaining a goal that fits perfectly within stringent parameters. That action logically causes a question of the good faith intent of the original post hence, the flack. I’m not making the judgment call here. I’m explaining the flack.

The stock and modified E1E and E2E configurations presented here are excellent solutions. The two-level candidate option was a nice surprise. The A2 is one of the finest flashlights on the planet and is most definitely an EDC sized light. If a one cell, 100 hour lamp, 150lu, two-mode, regulated, incandescent flashlight existed that would be a very fine thing indeed. We’d probably need a battery using newer technology to accomplish this in a way that yielded a reasonable amount of runtime. For now, your criteria set points to a goal that would be best accomplished through the use of a high CRI LED. 

I enjoy discussing the elements of different types of light so this thread has been of good use to me.


----------



## Icebreak (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Chrontius said:


> Surefire Aviator. When carried with a good holster, it's not very obvious, and as easy to carry as the few one-cell lights I've tried.
> 
> Aside from that, what's to stop me from running a TrifluPIC to a Surefire MA02/MN02 instead of to an SSC P4? Nothing I can think of. This is definitely within the realm of possibility, but nobody has done it economically yet.





Bullzeyebill said:


> Sounds intresting. Streamlight sells a PWM tailcap for the 20X, or did sell one. JS, did a write up. It worked, providing dimming and a strobe. The PWM worked off of the full output of the LA, and there was very little color shift in dimming mode, and the halogen cycle was not affected. I bring this up because it is possible to provide multistage output with incan lights, if you are running the correct circuit.
> 
> Bill



This is interesting and from what I understand, quite doable. I think it would more likely come to be through the efforts of CPF modders than from a manufacturer. I think it would be well received.


----------



## TorchBoy (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incaNdescent EDC?*



Icebreak said:


> it should be somewhat understandable why your original post is getting some flack.


AND it's spelled "incandescent." Misspelling it five times in the OP could itself be thought trolling. :naughty:


----------



## Icebreak (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Drift fishing in the incan forum *again*, Torchboy? And this time via a proxy subject association. We all feel so very special when you give us this oh so very special attention. Maybe we should make a list.


----------



## TorchBoy (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incaNdescent EDC?*

Hi Icebreak. You're not still muttering about something are you? :thinking:


----------



## Icebreak (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

Your posting history indicates that you have no other interest in the Incandescent Forum other than to disrupt discussions. It is not my concern if members break the stated rules or the spirit of the rules about trolling and baiting by a single post or by an easily identifiable pattern seen in many posts over a long period of time. In your case, in reference to your activity in this forum, my only concern is to help you attain your destiny.


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

When using a LF equipped E-series li-ion combo, how do the hosts handle the heat using HO and EO lamps? Can they run a full burn without getting too hot?


----------



## js (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*

TorchBoy,

Correcting the OP's spelling? Not so very impressive, and not at all a helpful contribution to this thread. If you have something constructive to add in regards to the subject of this thread, please feel free to continue posting here. Otherwise, I would suggest refraining from posting to this thread.


----------



## Illum (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Phaserburn said:


> When using a LF equipped E-series li-ion combo, how do the hosts handle the heat using HO and EO lamps? Can they run a full burn without getting too hot?



Well, that depends on how you define hot...
I've once ran the E0-E1R in the E2D for a full discharge session with no issues, but the heat will accumulate in the bezel for the first 5 minutes then the body heats up...the E2D I get to cheat by holding the light by the bezel flange. 

After 15 minutes on the E0-E1R the bezel is untouchable to me... I tried and wind up having to flush my hand under the cold tap:green:

Given the output to runtime proportions between the HO and EO E1R variations...they pretty much have similar heat outputs but since I never completed a full runtime test on the HO-E1R, its a theretical assumption.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Illum_the_nation said:


> Well, that depends on how you define hot...
> I've once ran the E0-E1R in the E2D for a full discharge session with no issues, but the heat will accumulate in the bezel for the first 5 minutes then the body heats up...the E2D I get to cheat by holding the light by the bezel flange.
> 
> After 15 minutes on the E0-E1R the bezel is untouchable to me... I tried and wind up having to flush my hand under the cold tap:green:
> ...


The HO-E1R/EO-E1R in the E2E doesn't get any hotter than the stock MN03 (or the P60 in the 6P, just for comparison).


----------



## jag-engr (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Juggernaut said:


> My xenon modded lithium AAA Minimag puts out 30+ lumens of pure white light and I carry it EDC on my key chain. Though it’s more of backup.


 
Juggernaut,

That sounds interesting. I imagine that 30+ lumens out of a Maglite looks pretty good. If you don't mind, I have a few questions.
Is it a single AAA or two AAA?
When you say lithium, are you talking about 1.5V Energizers or 3.7V Li-Ion?
How is the run-time?
How long does the bulb usually last?
How do you do the mod?
_______________________



discoverEDC said:


> jag-engr,
> Build your own high CRI led, take a look at the attached link. High CRI led's render color much better than regular leds and you can build one from any luxeon or seoul host.


 
I've been in contact with TexLite. I'm considering having that done for my LuxIII L2T if TexLite gets comfortable enough with the process to offer the service.


----------



## jag-engr (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Icebreak said:


> Taking into account an averaged point of view of a group of incandescent flashlight enthusiasts it should be somewhat understandable why your original post is getting some flack...
> ...I’m not making the judgment call here. I’m explaining the flack.


 
I think I blundered into the cross-fire on this one. This is almost as bad as mentioning Benchmade on the Spyderco forum a couple years ago.

_____________



Icebreak said:


> ...For now, your criteria set points to a goal that would be best accomplished through the use of a high CRI LED.


 
I suspect that you are right. The PT Blast and Xenon MiniMag both look like intersting candidates, but a high CRI LED seems like it might satisfy more of my personal criteria. I just wish that I were more knowledgeable when it comes to modding.  I'm hoping someone figures out a good way to mod an EX10 with a high CRI LED. A top end of 80-90 lumens would be fine, but the 2 lumen low would actually be an improvement (IMO).


----------



## Icebreak (Sep 16, 2008)

90 lumens in high CRI would be pretty darn useful. I've been following McGizmo's Sundrop thread. Floody with 40 to 50 lumens but the owners are gushing about the rendition.

Just did a "Google CPF only" search to see if there were any NiteCore high CRI mods but the search function has gone wacky today. Good luck with your quest. What might be in your favor is the current trend that manufacturers are focusing more on color rendition so, you never know what might come out tomorrow.

BTW way, are you using a Mac or a PC?

Just kidding.


----------



## TorchBoy (Sep 16, 2008)

Well, I'm sorry that spelling is such a low-priority issue and that I've upset IceBreak in the past - I can't even remember what it was. I'm sorry that my present incandescent EDC doesn't measure up for lumens or modes or regulation, but to each their own there, and I'll be modding it in a week or two anyway. I'm sorry that incan vs LED is such a touchy subject and that people automatically start suggesting warm white LED lights instead of exploring the actual topic.

But I'm glad to see that IceBreak and jag-engr are finally spelling the subject correctly. Good on you both.


----------



## js (Sep 16, 2008)

TorchBoy,

I don't care what sort of issues you have, or what sort of baggage there is between you and anyone else. I do care that I asked you to focus on the topic of this thread and post something relevant and constructive (positive or negative either way) and that you chose to ignore me.

Bad idea.

Take a week off.


----------



## Illum (Sep 16, 2008)

*Re: Is there such a thing as an incadescent EDC?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> The HO-E1R/EO-E1R in the E2E doesn't get any hotter than the stock MN03 (or the P60 in the 6P, just for comparison).



good to know, I've bought 2 used E2es and a E2D off the BST but I never actually used the MN03s because of my small primary stock


----------



## kelmo (Sep 17, 2008)

My E2D was my 1st high end CR123 based light. It lives in my backpack. It's more of a sentinel these days. My work horses are LEDs for obvious reasons. But my E2D is always near by. When I travel for vacation I usually take my E2O or 6P with a twisty switch.


----------



## SureAddicted (Sep 18, 2008)

There's something about the E series that just does it for me. To me I find them just about perfect for my needs. My 2nd the 3rd SF's were the E2D and E2E BK respectively. They go everywhere with me and have never let me down yet. The E series hasn't seen any upgrades or face lifts for a long time, that's because you don't mess with perfection, in my mind anyway. As said earlier, for sentimental reasons I could never let them go.


----------



## js (Sep 18, 2008)

My E2e, which has a Balrog BE2 body on it (no pocket clip) is currently sporting a LF EO-E2R lamp, driven by Powerizer industrial R123's, and I love it. It has finally become what it was destined to be, in my opinion. I've always liked the E2/e lights, but never liked the pocket clip on the E2e's, and always wished for just a bit higher CCT. In it's current configuration my E2e/BE2/EO-E2R meets all my wishes!


----------



## Icebreak (Sep 18, 2008)

Nice photos, SureAddicted.

_js_ -

That's got to be a smooth deployment for the Balrogs.



balrog said:


>


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Sep 18, 2008)

Remove the LED ring of an A2, and run two of the Powerizer's. You will have decent runtime with a regulated incan light. Would make a nice EDC. Carry some extra Powerizer's and change out the battery when the A2 drops out of regulation.

Bill


----------



## js (Sep 18, 2008)

Icebreak,

Yes. Smooth and perfect in the hand. Very nice. I'm really glad I own one of the Balrog BE2 bodies.


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 18, 2008)

js, your E2e or A2? Which do you like better? How is the heat on your setup?


----------



## ampdude (Sep 19, 2008)

js said:


> My E2e, which has a Balrog BE2 body on it (no pocket clip) is currently sporting a LF EO-E2R lamp, driven by Powerizer industrial R123's, and I love it. It has finally become what it was destined to be, in my opinion. I've always liked the E2/e lights, but never liked the pocket clip on the E2e's, and always wished for just a bit higher CCT. In it's current configuration my E2e/BE2/EO-E2R meets all my wishes!



When I carried E2's and E2e's back in the old dayz.. I was always scared about scratching the bezel. Nowadays.. for the past.. well over a year now I've carried a Vital Gear FB3 with an EO-E2R and two 17500's. Bezel down carry is nice.

I don't think that EDC combo can be beat.


----------



## js (Sep 19, 2008)

Phaserburn said:


> js, your E2e or A2? Which do you like better? How is the heat on your setup?



I like my A2 better, of course, if it's a general question or a question of EDC use. But, my E2e is a "kitchen light" and a kind of general around the house light. We grab it when we need to see in dark cabinets or closets or whatever. In that station, it beats the A2, I think, as the two-levels of the A2 would be wasted, and we use it almost exclusively in the turn-to-activate mode, as the LOTC of the A2 would be wasted in that application as well. So, as usual, it's the standard CPF answer: get both, both are better. As for heat, the E2e running the EO-E2R lamp is a freaking heat generator--no doubt. But I've run it continuous for many minutes, and the steady state temperature isn't too hot to hold (at the body) or anything, nor uncomfortable, so the heat is there, but not an impediment to use.


----------



## yellow (Sep 25, 2008)

as the thread interest seems broken, please allow a little highjack...



Icebreak said:


> And no matter how many times we post perfectly comparable intensity and size torch beamshots (like in the last LED vs Incandescent thread a couple of weeks ago) you "LED only" guys seem to be challenged by memory. Could it be that it's the exclusive use of LED light that is causing that? No matter.


Ok, Ice, I admit I must have missed that one. Could You please give me a link?

Since early this year, I cant use the search with useful results any more. The only hits I got were these two:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201962&highlight=led+vs.+incan&page=2
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/199782&highlight=led+vs.+incan
... 1st one with a useless original Led Mag to original D-cell to ROP bulbed Mag (pics only on page 2)
... 2nd one with a single led to MN21 "comparison"
(and pefectly showing why we dont come together, as long as the comparisons are single led to ROP)

is there a thread showing pics of lights in the seemingly most used 2 CR123 / 18650 sized lights class?
Unfortunately I cant remeber such one

note: I do not ask for comparison of lights with the same runtime! 
(but with "normal LAs! The 20 min high power bulbs for 2 CR123s - be serious - that is not even a near league) 


PS: my Scorpion 18650 is way brighter than my 6P. Why is this light, or the Stinger, not used for incan shots?
I'd also like A2 vs. P3D vs 6P vs ...
(to argue the purchase of an A2 with me)


----------

