# Spotlight suggestions - first time poster



## Mark Wo (Nov 20, 2009)

Wow, I never knew there were so many options for spotlights.

I'm in a bind and could use some help. I started reading the posts here and was quickly overwhelmed. HID, ballast mods, Xenon, etc.... 

Here's my situation. I had a spotlight that worked well for what I use it for - finding my way to my duck hunting spot. I rarely, if ever, hunt large bodies of water nor do I cross them. I hunt smaller water and mostly small streams and rivers. I would say my average yards of illumination is 75 and this could go up to 150 yards or so. I don't need to be able to read a book at 500 yards or anything.

I broke my old Vector spotlight that claimed 1MCP. It had a ramp up trigger where with each pull it went to the next higher level - I hated this feature by the way. It also had a nice light on the side with a seperate switch that was night for area illumination. Here is a link to the old unit

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200029524_200029524

I loved the size and weight of this unit and the fact that it had a nice sturdy aluminum body. The light wouldn't last long and I needed to recharge it after every hunt but it was workable.

I'm looking for something with a similar form factor regarding size as I loved the feel of the old light. If possible, even smaller would be better. If an LED spotlight can provide a similar amount of "light output" of the old Vector, that would be great. I don't care if the color of the light is 5500 K or 3500K as 'warmness" doesn't matter too much to me.

In searching, I came across this spotlight. Anyone know anything about it? It has a high customer rating but one never knows what the customer's expectation is when purchasing. Walking the dog at night or search and rescue at sea.

*Thor/Cyclops Sirius 9-Watt LED Spotlight* 

Found it here:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...h/search-box.jsp.form1&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1

I think this describes my situation. Any insight and opinions are greatly appreciated.

Mark


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## Christoph (Nov 20, 2009)

Welcome to CPF Mark I have the very same Light. The light you have referenced uses three 3-Watt Luxeon LEDs there are much brighter led's now. I am not up on what is the latest of that type of light. There are a lot of pocketable led lights that will put out more light than that light.If you are local I could let you have mine for the shipping cost as it does not get used much other than a comparason light. Or if you just need a few parts I could help out a bit.
Chris


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## Mark Wo (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks for the note Chris. So I guess you are saying the spotlight I was looking at with the 3 Luxeon's is not going to meet my needs.

I'm looking for a 5 watt LED spotlight but don't know if that is going to work either. I saw that Cloeman light menioned here but at 8 lbs that is too much to be carrying. Everything for me is a trade off betweeen function and weight.

Mark


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## Gunner12 (Nov 20, 2009)

It's not just the amount of watts that determines output, the efficiency of the light source is also important. As for throw, there are three things that determines that. Size and geometry of reflector, intensity of light source, and texture of reflector.

Would a LED thrower work for you? Something like the Dereelight DBS?

:welcome:


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## BVH (Nov 20, 2009)

Gunner12 said:


> It's not just the amount of watts that determines output, the efficiency of the light source is also important. As for throw, there are three things that determines that. Size and geometry of reflector, intensity of light source, and texture of reflector.
> 
> 
> :welcome:



Don't forget size of the actual light source, the smaller the point source, the further it will throw - all things remaining equal.


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## Patriot (Nov 21, 2009)

I still own that exact 3 stage Vector 55W spotlight that you referred to. The only reason I still have it is because I thought it was nice enough to mod someday. I may stick a small li-po battery in it.

Your use requirements are not that demanding and I would probably just replace with with another halogen spotlight of at least 55W, 100W would be better. 

Cree XR-E LED lights which will throw as well was your 55W Vector will not output the same amount of overall lumens as the Vector. The LED "throw lights" output about 250 lumens compared to around 750 lumens from the vector. In order to get to 750 lumens you'll need to look at some of the quad die LED's or the SST-50 and SST-90 lights or lights that use multiple Cree XR-E LED's. Going with these large non-XR-E's LED's will produce more overal lumens 600-900 lumens typically, but they're not going to throw quite as well as the Vector or single Cree XR-E lights. This is because as BVH stated, the point source of these larger die LED's effectively lowers the surface brightness thus reducing peak throw. 

That's probably a lot to absorb but with regards to throw vs. overall lumens think of a 100W incandecent bulb on your coffee table. Lots of lumens, 1500-ish but very little throw. A regular 3D maglight on the other hand is very few lumens 35-ish, but much better throw than the tungsten lamp on the coffee table. Flashlights and their various formulas have the same lumen vs. throw trade offs. Since throw isn't an issue for you I would purchase a *P7, MC-E, SST-50 or SST-90* LED based flashlight. There are many to choose from but they'll all cost about triple what your Vector cost. On the mega plus side is the efficiency and run-time. A 2 x 18650 battery P7 LED flashlight will run 4-8 times longer than the Vector, and all without gradually dimming as the Vector does. Also, the beam will be much smoother and not full of artifacts like the Vector. Lastly, and this should get your attention, most of the LED mentioned in bold text will allow for a light about 1/2 - 1/3 the size of the Vector. 

In my opinion, LED is worth every penny in this application. You might want to start researching the Jetbeam M1X and then branch out from there. It's a very well established light in the CPF community, so there shouldn't be any surprises on the consumer's end.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/230019


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## Gunner12 (Nov 21, 2009)

BVH said:


> Don't forget size of the actual light source, the smaller the point source, the further it will throw - all things remaining equal.



Yup, hence the "intensity of light source" part, probably should have said surface brightness instead.

For the distance the OP wants, a thrower light with the quad or larger die LEDs could work. I was suggesting the single die versions because they usually have more throw, but due to the single die, they won't have as wide a beam.


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## Patriot (Nov 21, 2009)

Gunner12 said:


> For the distance the OP wants, a thrower light with the quad or larger die LEDs could work. I was suggesting the single die versions because they usually have more throw, but due to the single die, they won't have as wide a beam.





....Which was also a good call since either could work depending on what the OP needs. Based on the light he's coming from, the large die LED's might be an easier switch for him. The large reflector XR-Es are pretty narrow.

P.S. For the original poster. Don't bother with that handheld Luxeon 3W spot from link you posted. It will be rather unimpressive.


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## Mark Wo (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I have a bunch to learn.

Throw is important to me as sometimes the distances covered are large. Father, in many cases for me is better. Typical sistances are what I posted above.

Besides the Brinkmna and the Stanley LED spotlight, any other good LED spotlights available or do the Eagle TAc and the MX1 perform as well as the old Vector I have previously?

Cost isn't as much of an issue as perfomance. I would like simialr capabilities as the old Vecotr but in smaller package and with a longer run time. Color of the light doesn't matter much.

Lot's of good info on this forum.

Mark


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## Patriot (Nov 21, 2009)

Mark Wo said:


> Cost isn't as much of an issue as perfomance. I would like simialr capabilities as the old Vecotr but in smaller package and with a longer run time. Color of the light doesn't matter much.






When hot off the charger the Vector is probably going to out throw the M1X by a little bit. In practical terms that doesn't mean much though. As soon as you've got about 3-5 minutes of runtime on that tiny SLA battery in the Vector it will no longer have any advantage over the M1X in any category. Same goes for the M2XC4 with "Cool White" LEDs. Personally I prefer the Jetbeam but to each their own. 

Another option would be to pick up a custom incandescent maglite. A mag11 mod with smooth reflector is smaller and will outperform the Vector handily. A mag85 will provide even more lumens but the throw probably won't be much greater than the mag11. Mag mods can get much more complicated and powerful but I find the ROP, mag11, mag85, and mag64 all very usable. 

Here is a mag11 in the marketplace for a very good price. This will out throw the Vector and LED lights by a good margin. One set of batteries lasts close to an hour with about 900 starting lumens. You would have to read up on li-ion batteries and purchase a charger if you don't have one. I know the seller as he's a member in my area. 

So, you've got a few good options to consider. If you're looking for minimal size and long run-time go LED. If you're looking for improved run-time over the Vector with a bit more performance go with and FM11 and pick up a couple of extra WA1111 bulbs. There are more options of course but for the sake of a practical typed discussion I'm not going to get into 10 or 12 different lights. If you search the various lights I mentioned, including the mag modifications it will tie you up for a good while.


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## Mjolnir (Nov 21, 2009)

Since this is the spotlights and HID flashlights section, you might want to consider a lower priced "flashlight form factor" HID, like the ones from Oracle or tacticalHID. They have a LOT of output and probably have very good throw. Of course, HIDs don't like to be turned on and off for only a few seconds, so that could potentially be an issue.
A cheaper alternative to the Mag11 would be an ROP of some kind. There are many battery options, so you could make a Nimh one or a lithium ion powered one. There are also many aftermarket maglite heads and reflectors available for more throw.


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## Patriot (Nov 22, 2009)

Here is a good ROP or (Roar of the Pelican) thread. It's considered a semi mod. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/120462

The mag11 is a bit brighter though.


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## Mjolnir (Nov 22, 2009)

Based only on LuxLuthor's destructive bulb tests the 3854H seems to have higher output at the same voltage when compared to the WA 1111 bulb. My 3854H draws about 4.4 amps with fresh cells, which would put it at around 7.2 volts and (optimistically) near 1000 lumens. The WA 1111 at 7.2 volts is only estimated at about 800 lumens, and doesn't have a very long bulb life either (the 3854H probably has pretty low bulb life at this voltage too). Since 3854 bulbs are easier to get and don't require a bi-pin adapter, I feel that it makes more sense to go that route. Of course, a bipin adapter will allow more upgrade possibilities.


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## Mark Wo (Nov 22, 2009)

I was just going to ask what ROP was an acronym for. Guess I now know.

Here is what I did. I spent a bunch of time reading about various options on this site and researched what was suggested in this thread. As I needed a light to go hunting this morning and the next couple of days, and since I have a Walmart nearby, I went out and purchased the Stanley 5 watt LED spotlight. It met my intial requirements of long run time, small form factor and lightweight. All I needed to do was get home, charge it up and then take it outside for a dry run. After waiting for too long (I was anxious) I took the light outside and hit the switch. Wow, quite impressive for such a small light. 

My initial thought is that it doesn't have the same brightness as the old vector light but this could be because of the color temperature of the light itself. I don't think the blue/white light of the LED shows details like the warmer incan bulb in the vector. As far as long range illumination, or throw as I learned here, it doesn't quite measure up to the old light. It is as though there aren't as many lumens on the object far away (don't know if this is correct terminology),

This light probably won't make it as my long range illuminator but will replace the old lantern lamp I had in the hunting bag. I'll need to hunt some larger bodies of water to see how this lamp cuts it in bigger areas.

Thanks for the info and help. Thanks to the owner of the site for all the information contained within.

So, now what kind of light do I want for the longer range illuminator? The search continues.

Mark


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## Mjolnir (Nov 22, 2009)

Incans definitely have an advantage for outside use. Trees and ground tend to not have all that much blue in them, and LEDs have a lot of blue. Incans have more light in the wavelengths that things outside will reflect.
An HID with a 4300K bulb could also work, but HIDs are pretty expensive, especially if they are of the "flashlight type."


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## Christoph (Nov 23, 2009)

I took my MX1 out last night with my vector and as has been said the vector had more over all light but in 15 minuets it was dimmer. The Jetbeam did reach a little further than the vector due to the tighter beam and less up front light.I also prefer the Jetbeam. It is much easier to carry and store as well as spare batteries. A good feature is to adjust the first level to what you normally need and leave the top level for extra light. 
Chris


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## Patriot (Nov 23, 2009)

Mark Wo said:


> As far as long range illumination, or throw as I learned here, it doesn't quite measure up to the old light. It is as though there aren't as many lumens on the object far away (don't know if this is correct terminology),
> 
> This light probably won't make it as my long range illuminator but will replace the old lantern lamp I had in the hunting bag. I'll need to hunt some larger bodies of water to see how this lamp cuts it in bigger areas.
> 
> ...






The "5W" Stanley is only about 200 lumens vs. more than double that from the incan vector. Still it should prove to be a good reliable light and the run-time will be terrific. For you next light you might consider HID. It's a whole new world. Stanley also makes an awesome HID for the money.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/225844

Got out my old Vector this weekend and found that the battery was completely dead and unresponsive to charging. I disassembled the light and found a 6V 3Ah SLA in there. I'm thinking of converting it to li-po and installing a 12V bulb in there instead. I already own the batteries so it's just a matter of deciding on the right bulb.


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## Mark Wo (Nov 23, 2009)

I looked at the HID option and I don't think it will work for me. I need a light that I can instantly turn on and have it work and I usually end up turning it on briefly, turning it off and then back on a few seconds later. I do this quite a bit. I don't think HID's are meant to be used this way.

So, when you say you are going to put in a 12V bulb and some li-po batteries, what will this do for the vector? Much brighter, longer run time? Care to share where I might buy similar batteries and a 12V bulb that will work?

If I could get 15-30 minutes more time out of the Vector, I'd mod it up and keep using it. I'd have to resolder the wires on the trigger but I think I can do this.

Mark


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## Patriot (Nov 23, 2009)

Mark Wo said:


> I looked at the HID option and I don't think it will work for me. I need a light that I can instantly turn on and have it work and I usually end up turning it on briefly, turning it off and then back on a few seconds later. I do this quite a bit. I don't think HID's are meant to be used this way.



From prior post


> So, now what kind of light do I want for the longer range illuminator? The search continues.



You're correct, in that HID's aren't meant to be switched on and off repeatedly throughout of a life time of use. I just wasn't sure if since you fulfilled the roll of the Vector with the Stanley HID, you were looking for something completely different.




> So, when you say you are going to put in a 12V bulb and some li-po batteries, what will this do for the vector? Much brighter, longer run time? Care to share where I might buy similar batteries and a 12V bulb that will work?
> 
> If I could get 15-30 minutes more time out of the Vector, I'd mod it up and keep using it. I'd have to resolder the wires on the trigger but I think I can do this.



Depending on the bulb I decide upon it could be very much brighter. 12V or 12.6V to be exact, for a 3 series li-po pack gives me more options since 12V bulbs are more common. It appears to be an H3 style 6V so I'm going to look in my spares kit for a 12V H3 and see if it's an easy mod.


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## Patriot (Nov 23, 2009)

Ok dudes, this is looking fairly promising.

Pull off rear rubber cover and unscrew the 4 Phillips that hold on the rear, plastic battery cover.






Here's what's underneath. 6V 3Ah SLA, terminals facing to 9 O'clock looking from the back, like we are.





Battery removed





That rubber cover on the front is a pita to remove, maybe because my light is older.





Remove the two screws shown above to take off the lens retainer bezel.





Remove lens. 





Remove reflector and place face down. You don't want any dust on it and you never want to wipe it with anything.





Remove bulb spring clip, unscrew retainer screw from bulb base and negative contact.





New 12V 100W H3 bulb on top, stock 6V 55W H3 bulb on bottom





Prep new bulb to remove any fingerprints or other oils.





Reassemble and hook up contacts to a 3S 11.1V (12.6V) li-po and turn on.





Woohoo!!! 

Ok, it looks like the light only has two modes now, high and low. I guess that's due to the higher voltage but that's fine with me since I never liked the 3 modes anyway. Too much trigger clicking. The battery I'm using isn't fully charged but this thing is rock'in now. It's brighter than the mag11 and I'm going to guess the output to be around 1000-1100 lumens according to the light meter. That's about double what it was before. It throws better than the mag11 as well and has a larger hot spot. The color temp is warmer than the mag11 but with a fully charged battery that will improve. This beam is sweet guys. I'm guessing part of the reason for that is the decently sized reflector and co-axial filament design. The hot spot is LED perfect! 

So far so good. Now, I need to find a li-po battery of at least 3000mAh, 3S, and no longer than 95mm. That may be tough but where there's a will, there's a way. 

More latter.


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## Mark Wo (Nov 24, 2009)

Now were talkin. That is cool. This does create a couple of questions:

1. Why the switch to the 12V bulb? Do they make a 6V 100 watt bulb? Does 12V equate to more output?
2. Isn't a 3000 mAh battery the same as a 3 Ah battery? What does the li-po battery add to the system? More energy? Longer burn time?
3. Will you now have to modify the charging system to charge the li-po battery when you find one that fits? How much work will that be?
4. What is a "3S' battery in what you wrote here - "find a li-po battery of at least 3000mAh, 3S, and no longer than 95mm"?
5. What's a mag11 - a model for a maglight? Was it too modified.

Cool stuff Patriot.

Mark


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## Patriot (Nov 24, 2009)

Mark Wo said:


> Now were talkin. That is cool. This does create a couple of questions:
> 
> 1. Why the switch to the 12V bulb? Do they make a 6V 100 watt bulb? Does 12V equate to more output?
> 2. Isn't a 3000 mAh battery the same as a 3 Ah battery? What does the li-po battery add to the system? More energy? Longer burn time?
> ...





1) higher wattage, more glowing filament. As far as I know 6V H3 bulbs only go to 55W. Also, I had it laying around in my kit.

2) Yes, that's why I stated "at least 3000mAh" also there's a huge weight savings with li-po as compared to SLA. The battery I'm using for testing is about 1/3 the weight. 

3)No, I'll just recharge the battery with a proper li-po charger. Li-po battery charging requires a li-po / li-on specific charger. There are two ways, well...3 ways but I'm only considering two at this time. That is to make the rear cover quick detach and use fast Dean's type connectors to disconnect from the light and connect to the charger. The other way is to use only the cell balancing connector ribbon and let it protrude from the back of the light under behind the rubber rear cover. I can't charge at as high of a rate with the cell balance connection but it will be cleaner and involves less fiddling to charge.

4)3S = three cells in series. 1 pack 3 flats cells. 4S would be 1 pack 4 flat cells wired in series. One cell equals 3.7V nominal and 4.2V max. A 3S pack is referred to as an 11.1V pack but it's actually 12.6V working voltage. 

4b)That's the longest internal battery compartment dimension. Battery length will be my limiting factor. I'm looking for one as short and fat as possible.

5)I provided you links in prior posts, but it's a modification to a maglite. The mag11 uses a WA1111 bulb. Here is a list of common mag mods.


This mod will be "doable" by anyone, if they study up on and fully understand li-po battery useage and safety. This is very important since li-po can be a fire hazard. There are other safer battery formats going all the way back to a 12V SLA. In fact, I think this one might fit but I'll have to check the dimensions of the other battery again. The advantage to li-po is that is has more energy density than other chemistries so you can have the most power and the lightest power in the smallest amount of space. If you're not willing to spend the time learning about li-po and investing in a charger then the 12V battery option with 100W bulb may be the most simple alternative. Just remember that your run-time will be even less than before because now you're powering a 100W bulb. 

Ultimately the problem here is that your running a fairly compact spotlight and you're up against the technology limits of the battery itself. The only way to get more light with the same battery technology is to be more efficient which translates to LED or HID. Since those really aren't options you have to change to a battery capable of more performance or change lights. 

The Stanley LED is a good light, I'm sure, but it would be worth your while to spend more and graduate to a light like the M1X. This will provide about 3x the light output with very little reduction throw. A powerful LED in conjection with a good HID is quite the "one-two" punch for outdoor lighting needs and both are far more efficient than incandescent. Not to knock incandescent but unless you're running a battery technology other than SLA, there's not much justification in choosing incan unless you're running it from a vehicle of some type (which means you'll have huge capacity and a generator).


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