# Batteries not being mailed from china



## JohnGribbin (Sep 22, 2013)

I'm hearing that china post is no longer allowing lithium to be air mailed... For safety reasons, unless in the device they are used for.


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## NeedMoreLight (Sep 22, 2013)

This is true. A couple of dealers are no longer selling batteries. The others are trying to find ways around it, but most packages are being returned to the dealers and they are issuing refunds.


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 22, 2013)

Please present some documentation to support your information. Is it Lithium Ion or primary Lithium cells?

Bill


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## JohnGribbin (Sep 22, 2013)

I read this in another forum and in deal extremes own forum on their own web site


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## NeedMoreLight (Sep 22, 2013)

Here is one http://www.fasttech.com/forums/stickies/t/1037107/hk-post-delay-in-outbound-air-mail-services-10

From Wallbuys page...
Now even Singapore Post can not ship the pure battery, then we have to stop selling batteriesbut Singapore Post said if the battery is in the flashlight,then that is available, so if you really need battery, you can choose SKU9839 and send me a email, we will put battery into flashlight.
we will try our best to solve this shipping problem asap

From Dealextreme,,,
Dear all, 
We’ve been informed that for aviation security, airmail service now are prohibited from mailing packages that contain lithium batteries or lithium cells. We therefore have stopped selling all the laptop batteries which may easylier cause confiscation.
All unshipped orders which contains laptop batteries now needs to be cancelled and refunded. The cancellation will be processed within 48 hours. If you have paid it by Credit card, it will take 1-7 days for the refund arrives to you.
We apologize for all inconvenience it has caused you.
Please refer here to get further notification from HK Post.
Best regards
DX Team

There are others but I am having computer trouble at the moment.


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## radiopej (Sep 22, 2013)

How long ago was this? I'm waiting for some from HK, or is it just mainland China? 

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 22, 2013)

Check AW's posts at the Market Place. He can not ship Li-Ion air mail at this time.

Bill


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## NeedMoreLight (Sep 22, 2013)

From all I have read, if it comes by air, it's banned. Hong Kong Post, China Post, Singapore Post, USPS.. unless a order just happens to slip through, you won't get it. If it's in a order with other items, batteries may not be detected and possibly might get through. Start buying from Ebay from US dealers.


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## Norm (Sep 22, 2013)

Moved to Batteries Included - Norm

 What to post in the General Flashlight Discussion Sub Fourum.


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## Mr Floppy (Sep 23, 2013)

This is ridiculous. How is being in the device any safer? So what constitutes a device? A led sticky taped to a plastic tube?


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## NeedMoreLight (Sep 23, 2013)

Mr Floppy said:


> This is ridiculous. How is being in the device any safer? So what constitutes a device? A led sticky taped to a plastic tube?



Wallbuys will ship a battery in a flashlight. But who wants to buy a flashlight just for a battery? When I buy, it's generally 8-10 batteries at a time.


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## ChrisGarrett (Sep 23, 2013)

Tesla is behind this. Mark my words.

Chris


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## TinderBox (UK) (Sep 23, 2013)

Do you think we should stock-up on li-ion battery`s that we need, is the price going to shoot up because of the new shipping rules.

John.


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## gopajti (Sep 23, 2013)

Doingoutdoor said

"yes, that's a problem for now. But please do not worry, we still have the way to ship batteries to European countries, so you still can get batteries from us successfully."


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## TinderBox (UK) (Sep 23, 2013)

Yeah, but still free delivery? , or will they put the price of li-ion`s up to cover the cost.

John.



gopajti said:


> Doingoutdoor said
> 
> "yes, that's a problem for now. But please do not worry, we still have the way to ship batteries to European countries, so you still can get batteries from us successfully."


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## tatasal (Sep 23, 2013)

I'm not scared at all about this brouhaha. It's only a matter of time the Chinese vendors will find a way to ship it when the 'heat' is off.


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## subwoofer (Sep 23, 2013)

Surely all this means is longer delivery times, not a reason to panic.

A lot of things I have ordered have come on the slow boat rather than airmail, the slow delivery simply goes with the cheap price.

DX for one is still shipping 18650s etc for free, but it will just be surface mail, not airmail.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Sep 23, 2013)

Has there been any fires in planes linked to li-ion battery`s that are being shipped, I have only heard of the planes own li-ion battery causing problem.

John.


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## HKJ (Sep 23, 2013)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> Has there been any fires in planes linked to li-ion battery`s that are being shipped, I have only heard of the planes own li-ion battery causing problem.



At least to lithium batteries: http://www.flyingmag.com/news/ups-747-crash-highlights-lithium-battery-danger


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## Silgt (Sep 23, 2013)

So does that means we are not allowed to carry any of our spare batteries either as a hand carry or as checked-in luggage when we board a flight?

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk 2


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## Theron (Sep 23, 2013)

I got lucky and my recent FastTech order made it through. 

I guess in the future I'll have to smuggle undeclared batteries through USPS.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 23, 2013)

Why is everyone surprised?

Over 2 years ago, the International Air Transport Association introduced regulations restricting transportation of lithium-based batteries by air. The phase-in period ended January 31, 2013. Anyone who has been shipping lithium batteries by air mail since then has been in violation of the regulations.

BTW, there have been over 60 "incidents" involving lithium batteries on commercial airplanes (not counting the Boeing 787 Dreamliner incidents).


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## jaycyu (Sep 23, 2013)

My 18650's have half a decade of shelf life left. I hope venders can sort out this inconvenient by then. 
In this situation, I don't mind buying 6x cheap flashlights with $21 li-on's in them.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Sep 23, 2013)

I just want to buy a BOX with some 18650`s in it 

John.


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## Changchung (Sep 23, 2013)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> I just want to buy a BOX with some 18650`s in it
> 
> John.



Hahhaha, please, can you send one to my country? [email protected] Need it... hahaha

BTW, for the moments, no problems shipping from India, find a Ebay seller from India or order some... I will try later...


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## KITROBASKIN (Sep 23, 2013)

Can't say for sure how long ago, (early spring?) I got a 14500 cell by air that was placed by the vendor in the factory box that contained a Nitecore charger I had also ordered. There were a few other items in the shipping package. The customs declaration on the outside of the shipping package stated it was flashlight parts. I will do business with that vendor again.


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## Mr Floppy (Sep 23, 2013)

Yamabushi said:


> BTW, there have been over 60 "incidents" involving lithium batteries on commercial airplanes (not counting the Boeing 787 Dreamliner incidents).



In devices or loose cylindrical cells?


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## Changchung (Sep 23, 2013)

Mr Floppy said:


> This is ridiculous. How is being in the device any safer? So what constitutes a device? A led sticky taped to a plastic tube?



I was thinking the same, what kind of expert or whatever think that is more secure a battery in a device that a loose one???

What a stupid regulation...


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## Norm (Sep 23, 2013)

Changchung said:


> I was thinking the same, what kind of expert or whatever think that is more secure a battery in a device that a* loose one???*
> 
> What a stupid regulation...



Loose cells is a bit misleading, correctly packaged cells should be OK to post.

Norm


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## Changchung (Sep 23, 2013)

Norm said:


> Loose cells is a bit misleading, correctly packaged cells should be OK to post.
> 
> Norm



You are so right, lately all the sellers send the batteries in plastic box with a lot of bubble plastic. This sound correctly packaged to me...

This regulation must be checked and changed...


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## ChrisGarrett (Sep 24, 2013)

Peak-Li-Ions.

We're doomed.

Chris


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## Dubois (Sep 24, 2013)

Wallbuys have just announced that they will ship batteries again. They have 3400 NCR18650B available, protected & unprotected, still quite reasonable prices.


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## tripplec (Sep 24, 2013)

I got my Li-ion 18650's from FASTTECH. It takes a little while but not especially long given where they're coming from. 
I checked carefully and they did confirm they could ship to me. I'll be ordering more later once I have used them a while.


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## NeedMoreLight (Sep 24, 2013)

Dubois said:


> Wallbuys have just announced that they will ship batteries again. They have 3400 NCR18650B available, protected & unprotected, still quite reasonable prices.


For those prices, I will order from an Ebay dealer in the US and get them in a few days.


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## malow (Sep 24, 2013)

i while ago DX told about changes in shipping li-ion batteries, then they started to ship all 18650 in plastic cases. they said this change was to make "shipping li-ion inside regulations".

i get 18650 cell regularly, last 1 week ago. never a problem. (im in brazil)


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## turkeylord (Sep 24, 2013)

I've got 14500s and 10440s on the way from different vendors, and I've only received tracking from one vendor... Hope they all make it!


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## Dubois (Sep 24, 2013)

NeedMoreLight said:


> For those prices, I will order from an Ebay dealer in the US and get them in a few days.



Really? The Wallbuys prices - eg $18.50 for a pair of protected 3400's seem reasonable to me.


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## NeedMoreLight (Sep 24, 2013)

That is reasonable, but for a bit more (19.85) I can get them in a few days not possibly weeks from China. I have an order that has been sitting for almost 3 weeks and hasn't moved, and will probably be returned to the dealer when inspected because of all this.


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## Holiday (Sep 25, 2013)

I agree, if the same accident happens again , maybe Singapore Post will forbid Batteries too, it will be the hardest time


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## Changchung (Sep 25, 2013)

From fasttech

Actually we can still ship the batteries with special packing. But the delay will still occur due to the thorough investigation


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## JohnGribbin (Sep 25, 2013)

*Where to buy Sanyo 18650 batteries if china won't ship*

Considering the china post problem, I searched eBay and all seller were from china. No us sellers. Now what.


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## tripplec (Sep 25, 2013)

malow said:


> i while ago DX told about changes in shipping li-ion batteries, then they started to ship all 18650 in plastic cases. they said this change was to make "shipping li-ion inside regulations".
> 
> i get 18650 cell regularly, last 1 week ago. never a problem. (im in brazil)


I notice my Sanyo Protected cells from FASTTECH came in a plastic snap over type case holding the pair of 2600mah 18650's. I'll most likely order another pair since the capacity is quite sufficient for my flashlight application and are a proven cell. The I4 Nitecore charger handled them fine. So all is well. I did have trouble finding them manually on there website. I did not see a section for them I ended up search for them and found various choices. I certain would recommend Fasttech as source 100%.


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## Theron (Sep 25, 2013)

*Re: Where to buy Sanyo 18650 batteries if china won't ship*

They already have workarounds AFAIK.


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## Yamabushi (Sep 25, 2013)

*Re: Where to buy Sanyo 18650 batteries if china won't ship*



JohnGribbin said:


> Considering the china post problem, I searched eBay and all seller were from china. No us sellers. Now what.



I just searched eBay and two "Top Rated Plus" US sellers list new Sanyo 18650s (on both ebay.com and ebay.ca).


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## ckundred (Sep 25, 2013)

Changchung said:


> From fasttech
> 
> Actually we can still ship the batteries with special packing. But the delay will still occur due to the thorough investigation
> 
> Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...




I hope that's the case, ordered 18650s and 10440s from Fasttech about two weeks ago and they were "accepted" by HK Post on the 12th. Yesterday they showed "processed" by HK Post. Hopefully they'll be on a plane soon! :thumbsup:


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## Grumpy1 (Sep 25, 2013)

Thats not what i was told from their support.


Changchung said:


> From fasttech
> 
> Actually we can still ship the batteries with special packing. But the delay will still occur due to the thorough investigation
> 
> ...


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## tripplec (Sep 25, 2013)

ckundred said:


> I hope that's the case, ordered 18650s and 10440s from Fasttech about two weeks ago and they were "accepted" by HK Post on the 12th. Yesterday they showed "processed" by HK Post. Hopefully they'll be on a plane soon! :thumbsup:



That is how mine showed as well. I will come and it took about 2 weeks no problem just wait.


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## ckundred (Sep 25, 2013)

tripplec said:


> That is how mine showed as well. I will come and it took about 2 weeks no problem just wait.



Thanks...I ordered some a couple months ago and it was less than two weeks to my door. These have just been sitting over there in the postal facilities for a couple weeks but it does look like something is happening.


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## vestureofblood (Sep 25, 2013)

What the whole world really needs anyway is for a rock solid *American* *manufacturer* to pick up the slack. Someone in the good old USA to make quality cells, taking all the guess work out of buying li-ion cells. No more wandering about capacity, what chemistry did I really get, how old are these cells really. Yep a reliable USA manufacturer who will not horde the cells by refusing to sell them to the open market. *Said company would rule the world!*


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## Norm (Sep 25, 2013)

vestureofblood said:


> *Said company would rule the world!*


Not sure how the posting rules would be any different for an American based company or why that company would rule the world.

Norm


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## Changchung (Sep 25, 2013)

Grumpy1 said:


> Thats not what i was told from their support.



I dont know what is your point, but maybe you can believe it with some proof???


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 25, 2013)

Chaungchung, please make your point with quotes we can read, and which forum they are from.

Bill


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## Grumpy1 (Sep 25, 2013)

Never said i didnt believe you. I was told the exact opposite. Fasttech obviuosly need to work on their customer service.


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## tacticalpineapple (Sep 25, 2013)

My 18650s arrived today from fasttech. I ordered about 2 weeks ago. I was told by fasttech customer service about unspecified delays at HK Post. Don't know what they meant by that, but my batts definitely took longer than the advertised time of 5-7 days. Any thoughts?


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## Etsu (Sep 26, 2013)

vestureofblood said:


> What the whole world really needs anyway is for a rock solid *American* *manufacturer* to pick up the slack. Someone in the good old USA to make quality cells, taking all the guess work out of buying li-ion cells. No more wandering about capacity, what chemistry did I really get, how old are these cells really. Yep a reliable USA manufacturer who will not horde the cells by refusing to sell them to the open market. *Said company would rule the world!*



Most of the world's lithium mining is in China, and China has export restrictions on the stuff. So, a US manufacturer would still have to get lithium from China, which could be a problem. China pretty much controls anything to do with lithium and many other rare-earth metals. If they want to keep manufacturing of the stuff in China, they can do it. The US has no say in the matter.


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## tripplec (Sep 26, 2013)

It takes as long as it takes. I got mine from Fasttech as well. 2 weeks was approx it. They don't have control over the postal carriers and if a package is flagged for inspection which you was not it could take longer. I had one package from somewhere else opened up (marked and taped by customs) and it was over a month arriving.

You got them. Thats what counts.


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## RCS1300 (Sep 26, 2013)

vestureofblood said:


> What the whole world really needs anyway is for a rock solid *American* *manufacturer* to pick up the slack. Someone in the good old USA to make quality cells, taking all the guess work out of buying li-ion cells. No more wandering about capacity, what chemistry did I really get, how old are these cells really. Yep a reliable USA manufacturer who will not horde the cells by refusing to sell them to the open market. *Said company would rule the world!*



Can you imagine the average American consumer using an 18650 lithium ion battery or better yet, two in one flashlight in series? Can you imagine the average American consumer paying attention to the charging and use characteristics? 

The liability for any US based company would be tremendous.

I ordered a few AW 18650's from lighthound. They arrived yesterday.


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## ckundred (Sep 26, 2013)

I got an order from Fasttech today. Some 10440s that I ordered about 2 weeks ago. Another order is showing that it will be delivered tomorrow, so batteries are still coming but shipping is taking a bit longer.


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## turkeylord (Sep 26, 2013)

I just placed an order with Fasttech today, some NCR18650Bs. We'll see what happens. *fingers crossed*


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## Changchung (Sep 26, 2013)

Grumpy1 said:


> Never said i didnt believe you. I was told the exact opposite. Fasttech obviuosly need to work on their customer service.



I dont mean to be rude, sorry, you are right, their need to work a little better...



Bullzeyebill said:


> Chaungchung, please make your point with quotes we can read, and which forum they are from.
> 
> Bill



You cant see the image? This is from a ticket with fasttech costumer service that I open.

#147.
posted 3 days ago
by you 

Hi Jasmine, I am reading in various forums about the problems shipping lithium batteries, do you find a way to shipp the batteries out? Thanks 

 #148.
posted 1 day ago
by Jasmine Staff 

Actually we can still ship the batteries with special packing. But the delay will still occur due to the thorough investigation. 

 #149.
posted 1 day ago
by you 

Hi, thanks, this is a good news.


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## Mr Floppy (Sep 26, 2013)

Changchung said:


> You cant see the image? This is from a ticket with fasttech costumer service that I open.



I have trouble seeing it when on my phone so yes, the text would be much better. 

Good news indeed, do let us know what the "special packaging" is though.


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## hkenawy (Sep 27, 2013)

fenix outfitters isnt mailing the titanium innovation cr123s internationally anymore


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## Norm (Sep 27, 2013)

Off Topic posts deleted - Norm


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## KITROBASKIN (Sep 27, 2013)

Norm said:


> Off Topic posts deleted - Norm



I am curious as to when posts on a thread become too off topic. I have read the rules but can't say all of them stuck in the mind. Is it a certain number of off topic posts or is it the content of the post? Is it left to a moderator to decide? Is it because a moderator disagrees with the opinion? The police use of strobe thread is a thread to be respected and has been handled really well. I have no idea how many posts I read that were really, just prattle. Somehow they get left in the post. In the spirit of being the "friendliest flashlight forum" maybe we can get an understanding from leadership here why defending America' s history of manufacturing is so onerous as to be deleted. Did it set off a firestorm of nationalist fervor? Was the thread so truly derailed by the off topic comments? Is the thread so fascinating and complex that members can't wait to hear the next topical post? Is there another way that leadership can handle this, perhaps by explaining that an alternative thread can be created? Am I going to get a spanking and have to go to bed forever banished from the best forum I've seen?


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## Bullzeyebill (Sep 27, 2013)

KITROBASKIN said:


> In the spirit of being the "friendliest flashlight forum" maybe we can get an understanding from leadership here why defending America' s history of manufacturing is so onerous as to be deleted.



Cause it is off topic relative to the OP's post. Political discussions are not appropriate to this forum, or any forum on CPF. If you want to carry on this type of discussion then go to the the Underground, offered by CPF. Please do not continue your complaint re the administrator's action in removing OT posts.

Bill


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## Norm (Sep 27, 2013)

KITROBASKIN said:


> I am curious as to when posts on a thread become too off topic.



Off topic posts are deleted if they significantly drag the thread away from the topic title the OP isn't interested in the health of your "1968 Chevy truck" it has no relevance to the thread title, or as Bill says above is political. If off topic post are left as is, suddenly the thread bears no resemblance to the thread title. 



KITROBASKIN said:


> In the spirit of being the "friendliest flashlight forum" *maybe we can get an understanding from leadership here why defending America' s history of manufacturing is so onerous as to be deleted. * Did it set off a firestorm of nationalist fervor? Was the thread so truly derailed by the off topic comments? Is the thread so fascinating and complex that members can't wait to hear the next topical post? Is there another way that leadership can handle this, perhaps by explaining that an alternative thread can be created? Am I going to get a spanking and have to go to bed forever banished from the best forum I've seen?



Deleted because it has nothing to do with this thread. Want to discuss "America' s history of manufacturing" do so in your own thread, it certainly doesn't belong in this thread. - Norm


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## Timothybil (Sep 28, 2013)

Etsu said:


> Most of the world's lithium mining is in China, and China has export restrictions on the stuff. So, a US manufacturer would still have to get lithium from China, which could be a problem. China pretty much controls anything to do with lithium and many other rare-earth metals. If they want to keep manufacturing of the stuff in China, they can do it. The US has no say in the matter.



The problem is not lithium per se, it is the fact that people have shipped/checked in baggage loose cells. A loose cell can short and overheat to the point of bursting into flame and/or exploding. Any carrier allowing a couple hundred pounds/tons of straight lithium to get hot enough to burn/explode has other problems to deal with. The TV/Video industry has been dealing wit this for a couple years because of their separate power packs have been transitioning to Lithium-Ion from SLA & NiCad, and they are of a size that if they short for some reason there's gonna be a world of hurt round there. Everyone is working on a solution, but because it is an international regulation the bureaucracy involved slows things wwwaaaaayyyy down.


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## KITROBASKIN (Sep 28, 2013)

Having read the transport regulations for domestic aircraft this past summer, I was easily able to pass under the maximum limit when I shipped a lithium battery powered string trimmer on Southwest Airlines. That is a pretty substantial battery so I don't think a reasonable amount of flashlight batteries for personal use will come close to approaching the transport limit.


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## davidwestonh (Sep 29, 2013)

Well I placed an order to solarforce-sales and between the time they said it will ship out today and the post accepted the package was 18 days, no batteries were in the package. This must be hitting the companies hard.
If the post office accepts packages with stamp saying no harmfull liquids or batteries inside.
then maybe the shopping season will not be affected. But if they X-ray every package will everything slam to a stop during their Holliday season?
any ideas on how badly they will be hurt?


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## turkeylord (Oct 2, 2013)

turkeylord said:


> I've got 14500s and 10440s on the way from different vendors, and I've only received tracking from one vendor... Hope they all make it!


14500s arrived from CNQG today. In a case, in bubble wrap, in a bubble mailer.


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## turkeylord (Oct 7, 2013)

turkeylord said:


> I just placed an order with Fasttech today, some NCR18650Bs. We'll see what happens. *fingers crossed*


Received 11 days later. Packaged much the same as above, with one added layer of tin foil, lol.

Still haven't received my 10440s from Efest. Order placed Sept. 12th.


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## erknjerk (Oct 7, 2013)

*Fake Solarforce L2m?*

Mine too came in bubble wrap and tin foil. Anybody know why the tin?


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## hkenawy (Oct 8, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*

got 2 ultrafires they came in bubble wrap


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## airborne1977 (Oct 8, 2013)

I ordered three 18650 batteries from fast tech on Sept 3,2013 and I still don't have them!


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## Yamabushi (Oct 8, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*



erknjerk said:


> Mine too came in bubble wrap and tin foil. Anybody know why the tin?



They're trying to shield the package against x-ray inspection.

According to an eBay bulletin: "Recently the Hong Kong Post announced that all items shipping by air are now subject to x-ray screening for regulated materials. ... items containing the regulated materials are being returned to sellers and not delivered. These items may include: Items with lithium batteries ..."


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## TinderBox (UK) (Oct 8, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*

A bit of tin-foil is not going to stop an ex-ray machine from seeing inside, and if it could the customs would just open it as a suspicious package i would think.

John.


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## Yamabushi (Oct 8, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> A bit of tin-foil is not going to stop an ex-ray machine from seeing inside, and if it could the customs would just open it as a suspicious package i would think.
> 
> John.



You're right ... it won't work. The sellers that try this may face penalties for intentionally trying to beat the system.


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## Norm (Oct 8, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*



Yamabushi said:


> They're trying to shield the package against x-ray inspection.


I think you need more than foil to stop X rays.




Stolen from stoli67


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## gopajti (Oct 9, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*

2-2pcs Panasonic batteries arrived from Wallbuys. Shipping time was one week (China to Hungary)! Voltage 3.62-3.62V (NCR18650B), 3.61-3.62V (NCR18650A) date codes: 2013-01-26 (NCR18650B) and 2013-04-03 (NCR18650A). They sent via Singapore Post.


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## Yamabushi (Oct 9, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*



gopajti said:


> 2-2pcs Panasonic batteries arrived from Wallbuys. Shipping time was one week (China to Hungary)! Voltage 3.62-3.62V (NCR18650B), 3.61-3.62V (NCR18650A) date codes: 2013-01-26 (NCR18650B) and 2013-04-03 (NCR18650A). They sent via Singapore Post.


Did they declare the contents as Li-ion batteries or something else?


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## gopajti (Oct 9, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*

declared "Tool/Toy" they sent these batteries in plastic holder (psp holder)


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## Ualnosaj (Oct 9, 2013)

They can still be airmail but not standard consumer. We (and other companies) import hundreds and thousands of batteries at a time but pay a hefty hazardous goods handling fee. Support your local vendor


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## erknjerk (Oct 9, 2013)

What kind of vender has the good cells?


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## Norm (Oct 9, 2013)

erknjerk said:


> What kind of vender has the good cells?


 Your question is beyond the scope of this thread.

Ask your question here 18650 Battery and Charger Recommendation


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## schizeckinosy (Oct 9, 2013)

airborne1977 said:


> I ordered three 18650 batteries from fast tech on Sept 3,2013 and I still don't have them!



I ordered from FastTech at about the same time (NO BATTERIES) and my package is still in "acceptance" in Hong Kong post. FastTech replied to me yesterday:
"As we mentioned last week that we will give the final solution for the packages that stuck at Hong Kong Post for weeks. After numerous complaints and multiple visits, for the packages are still waiting to be processed without an estimate of the process, The Hong Kong Post finally gave us a posting guarantee to sign and have guaranteed that all packages will be processed within next week.
... 

This is only to speed up the package processing, they will still need to pass through the X-ray scanning."

The order that I made only 2 days earlier came in just a couple weeks. So this battery thing is still killing a lot of unrelated shipping!


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## jasonck08 (Oct 11, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> A bit of tin-foil is not going to stop an ex-ray machine from seeing inside, and if it could the customs would just open it as a suspicious package i would think.
> 
> John.



Or is it lead foil or something else?


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## TinderBox (UK) (Oct 11, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*

If you could get lead foil that would work, i don't know how thick it would have to be though, but as i said, if customs cannot see inside a parcel with x-ray`s they will definitely open it up to see what is inside so it defeats the point of using lead in the first place.

Also how heavy would the parcel be using lead. 

John



jasonck08 said:


> Or is it lead foil or something else?


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## Yamabushi (Oct 11, 2013)

*Re: Fake Solarforce L2m?*

All of the sellers who are trying to circumvent the regulations will eventually get shut down. I suspect that in some countries, the consequences will be worse than simply having the packages returned.

I won't be ordering from any seller who ships illegally by air mail. If I did, I would be knowingly soliciting an illegal act.

As Ualnosaj points out, there are legitimate vendors who import their supplies legally. I buy from local brick and mortar store, or order from US or Canadian sellers who ship legally by surface mail.


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## KITROBASKIN (Oct 11, 2013)

Yes, we can all go to sleep tonight knowing that no lithium battery will be shipped airmail unless it is in a flashlight, because if it's not, it's NOT LEGAL!

Sounds like some Chinese retailers are hearing they need to pack their batteries better so they went into the kitchen and got some aluminum foil. Does the foil offer increased protection from ElectroMagneticPulse?

No one on the North American Continent had the batteries I wanted, and the American sellers that offered alternatives(Chinese assembled) had a serious, major markup.

I buy from Illumination Supply and others, but.... I am not going to buy a '92 Oldsmobile just so I can say I buy American.


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## Yamabushi (Oct 12, 2013)

People seem to be confusing International Air Transport Association (IATA) regulations with postal regulations. 

IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations apply to commercial transportation by air (carry on, checked luggage and cargo) by members of the IATA. Most non-members also follow the IATA regulations but some may not. IATA rules include some provisions to allow air shipment of lithium batteries, e.g., batteries installed in devices.

Postal regulations are set by individual postal services. Some postal services have essentially the same rules as the IATA; others have banned all air mail shipments of lithium batteries; others have banned all surface or air mail shipments of lithium batteries. For international mail, the regulations of both the origin and destination postal services apply. Some postal services post the restrictions for each destination country; others have simply banned all international mail shipments of lithium batteries.

Cargo and courier companies also have their own rules which, even for a single company, may differ depending on origin and destination.


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## turkeylord (Oct 31, 2013)

Still waiting for my efest order placed 9/13 and my fasttech order placed 10/8...


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## turkeylord (Nov 11, 2013)

Paypal refunded my efest payment as a "one time courtesy" and Fasttech refunded their payment on their own. At least Fasttech did the right thing before I needed to start a dispute or make a claim, so that's a positive for them.


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## RetroTechie (Nov 19, 2013)

Got a notice from PayPal today that Fasttech refunded payment for a couple RCR123's. Which had been sitting as "posted in HK" for almost 2 weeks now, so I halfway expected they'd been refused by HongKong Post.

_Some_ credit for Fasttech here, but in the meanwhile I've read the fine print from HK Post, and they posted a notice somewhere in *September* that they would start refusing lithium batteries for airmail shipping as 'hazardous materials'. FT accepted my order for these batteries well after that notice was posted, so they were aware of this issue @ the time they accepted my order (and FT website stated that 99% of packages got through no problem, seems a bit deceptive in hindsight).  Still waiting for a battery charger that did leave HK, but hasn't arrived yet a month after ordering... 

In can understand the difficult position FT is in here, but bottom line: *IF YOU ORDER ANY TYPE OF LITHIUM BATTERY THAT MIGHT BE SENT BY AIRMAIL: READ THE ACTUAL SHIPPING SERVICE'S FINE PRINT.*


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## Slumber (Nov 19, 2013)

I ordered some 16650's from Fasttech on 10/28. They sat at HK post for two weeks and I was given an automatic refund on 11/17 as well.


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## degarb (Nov 19, 2013)

I purchased panasonic 3400's about a month ago, no problem. Now, trying to reorder, fasttech wants only to ship speed post. What is wrong with shipping on the slow boat, no plane route? I don't care about time, only price.


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## Curious_character (Nov 19, 2013)

I see an opportunity here -- a new line of flashlights, tentatively branded "NoFire". Made of any kind of cheap material, and having one 5 mm LED, one resistor, and with different models using 4, 8, 12, or 16 batteries of various types. So then you can get your order of 16 16850s in a "flashlight". No shipping problems. Perfectly safe. Think of the run time!

c_c


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## levi333 (Nov 21, 2013)

Fasttech is offering me store credit as my order was over 60 days ago and they can't refund through paypal apparently.
I asked them if I'll be able to get batteries like I wanted originally, we'll see what they say.


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 21, 2013)

Curious_character said:


> I see an opportunity here -- a new line of flashlights, tentatively branded "NoFire". Made of any kind of cheap material, and having one 5 mm LED, one resistor, and with different models using 4, 8, 12, or 16 batteries of various types. So then you can get your order of 16 16850s in a "flashlight". No shipping problems. Perfectly safe. Think of the run time!
> 
> c_c



That is funny.

last time I looked, doingoutdoor.com is shipping batteries to no one except Russia. Am I mistaken? Is that what this world is coming to? Russians have more freedom to buy batteries than Americans and people in other countries? Looks like the ascendance of Bossypants syndrome-- Or scared humans going all fussbudget to make themselves "SAFE"


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## markr6 (Nov 21, 2013)

In Soviet Russia, you don't come to batteries...batteries come to you!


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## KITROBASKIN (Nov 21, 2013)

markr6 said:


> In Soviet Russia, you don't come to batteries...batteries come to you!



Would that be in the middle of the night? 
I'm certainly not planning on a flight on a Russian airline anytime soon either.


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## degarb (Nov 21, 2013)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Would that be in the middle of the night?
> I'm certainly not planning on a flight on a Russian airline anytime soon either.



Plenty of police visits in middle of night in America. My friend was pulled out of his home at 3 am for fishing without a license and ignoring the fine. Spent good time in jail. The list goes on.... And personally, the stereo-type of the Russian Pilot drinking Vodka would make me more nervous than a LiIon on board. Are cell phone batteries banned on planes-many are li cobalt.

I don't get it. This is China: why don't they ship these in asbestos bags, whose fibers are safely locked in a lead resin? But seriously, hasn't there been a fireproof alternative to asbestos?


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## sidetracker (Nov 22, 2013)

Glad I found this posting. Ordered 4 batteries(2 14500's and 2 18650's) from Fasttech on 10/28. They shipped on 11/2 and as of today(11-21) still haven't received them. I've been trying to be patient because I realize they're coming from China, but now I know why there has been such a delay. Guess in the future I'll stick to buying from American vendors.


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## sbbsga (Nov 22, 2013)

My Fasttech order was first shipped by HK Post but it was returned to them. Then, I opted for them to be resent and they decided to use Swiss Post for the second time but it was kicked back to Fasttech again. In the end, they just refunded my money without giving me options.


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## 1pt21 (Nov 22, 2013)

Slumber Pass said:


> I ordered some 16650's from Fasttech on 10/28. They sat at HK post for two weeks and I was given an automatic refund on 11/17 as well.



Same! And it's a shame because it was a $150+ order that was sent back in its entirety strictly because of the 16650's (which I was REALLY looking forward to try out BTW).


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## degarb (Nov 22, 2013)

sidetracker said:


> Glad I found this posting. Ordered 4 batteries(2 14500's and 2 18650's) from Fasttech on 10/28. They shipped on 11/2 and as of today(11-21) still haven't received them. I've been trying to be patient because I realize they're coming from China, but now I know why there has been such a delay. Guess in the future I'll stick to buying from American vendors.



What American vendors?

I am confused, because Fasttech says they can use speed post for the cells. Have they now found a sensible carrier that would rather use a fire proof envelope than refusing to ship? Mineral wool and %100 silicone? Also, doesn't the cell need oxygen to vent with flames?


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## Yamabushi (Nov 22, 2013)

degarb said:


> I am confused, because Fasttech says they can use speed post for the cells.



Probably because Speedpost is a courier company and don't transfer the package to the postal service of the destination country. Thus, they do not have to comply with the postal regulations of the destination country.

The other possibility is that Speedpost may have the same prohibitions as the postal services but have not started screening parcels for lithium batteries. If that's the case, it's only a matter of time before they also reject such shipments.


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## degarb (Nov 23, 2013)

degarb said:


> What American vendors?
> 
> I am confused, because Fasttech says they can use speed post for the cells. Have they now found a sensible carrier that would rather use a fire proof envelope than refusing to ship? Mineral wool and %100 silicone? Also, doesn't the cell need oxygen to vent with flames?



Also (apart from my being perplexed at no simple technical solution like I posited), I am still confused (no reply) that apparently airplane is the only mode of transport for China and US post, not boat. I am assuming the prohibition is on planes. What about the cargo containers flooding the West coast?

The consiracy theory of China using lithium as a trade weapon seems more logical. Though, only too much silence by regulators to obvious solutions. A two step thinking regulator would offer a work around, not just ban.


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## nzgunnie (Nov 23, 2013)

degarb said:


> What American vendors?
> 
> I am confused, because Fasttech says they can use speed post for the cells. Have they now found a sensible carrier that would rather use a fire proof envelope than refusing to ship? Mineral wool and %100 silicone? Also, doesn't the cell need oxygen to vent with flames?



A fire proof envelope wont help your cause, that has no bearing on meeting IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations, which is what is causing the issues surrounding shipping.


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## degarb (Nov 23, 2013)

nzgunnie said:


> A fire proof envelope wont help your cause, that has no bearing on meeting IATA Dangerous Goods Regulations, which is what is causing the issues surrounding shipping.



To clarify your statement, I get what you are saying: once labeled dangerous, there is nothing that will make that thing undangerous in the mind of a regulator. Apparently, some regulation came down affecting air. What about boat/shipping containers/car batteries/commercial shipments? 

(Why not just ban unprotected cells?)

Got to go and cook on my stove; should I wear a pot holder glove before I touch a pot handle, or should stove tops be banned?


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## Yamabushi (Nov 23, 2013)

degarb said:


> TWhat about boat/shipping containers/car batteries/commercial shipments?



That is how legitimate suppliers are importing lithium batteries to North America. But it means that they have to pay for the special shipments and have to charge a little more.

I can buy Li-ion batteries from Canadian sellers online (shipped by surface mail) or in local brick & mortar stores.


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## Kueh (Nov 23, 2013)

Yamabushi said:


> ......
> 
> I can buy Li-ion batteries from Canadian sellers online (shipped by surface mail) or in local brick & mortar stores.



Can you tell me with which ones you deal?

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


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## Yamabushi (Nov 23, 2013)

Kueh said:


> Can you tell me with which ones you deal?



I've dealt with warriorsandwonders.com (online and brick & mortar) who carry 4Sevens (AW) and Fenix batteries and chargers, and Surefire CR13A primaries, and fenixtactical.com (online) who carry AW and Fenix batteries and chargers. 

I haven't dealt with them yet but some electronic cigarette dealers such as Happy Vaper carry AW batteries.

"No name" brands can be found in any local battery/electronics supply house.


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## nzgunnie (Nov 23, 2013)

degarb said:


> To clarify your statement, I get what you are saying: once labeled dangerous, there is nothing that will make that thing undangerous in the mind of a regulator. Apparently, some regulation came down affecting air. What about boat/shipping containers/car batteries/commercial shipments?
> 
> (Why not just ban unprotected cells?)
> 
> Got to go and cook on my stove; should I wear a pot holder glove before I touch a pot handle, or should stove tops be banned?



I all fairness the transport by air of Lithium metal and Lithium Ion batteries isn't banned, it just needs to be documented and labelled and shipped as DG.

Unfortunately this is a specialist area and the shipper needs to be, or needs to pay, an IATA qualified person to prepare the packaging and documentation. You can't send DG by mail.


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## RetroTechie (Nov 26, 2013)

Got this reply from FT today: (that concerned shipping from China -> Netherlands)


> FastTech confirms that all battery airmail packages are being affected at this time. This includes HKP/USPS, and Singapore Post. So the result as present is no available shipping methods for batteries package.
> 
> Hope you can understand. We promise that will update to you once we can solve this problem.


I'm _assuming_ this is about lithium batteries, both primaries and rechargeables, regardless of exact chemistry - please correct me if wrong. Not about NiMH rechargeables or alkalines. For example Hongkong Post fine print doesn't mention "batteries" (general, including NiMH), but specifically talks about "lithium batteries" as restricted or banned for airmail.

Let's hope this issue is resolved soon. Not all lithium batteries are built the same safety-wise, so scientifically speaking some of this "ban all lithium batteries for airmail" is regulatory BS anyway. Surely it's possible to package an 18650 cell such that if it explodes, only some cooled-down fumes are released from an outer package that stays intact. Which would make it a packaging / size / weight / shipping costs issue. Cargo ships sail every day from China ports and they do China -> Europe in 2 weeks or so (if not faster these days). Trains are another option. I'm patient if I know that the goods _are_ coming... 

So solutions are surely *possible.*


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## RetroTechie (Nov 26, 2013)

degarb said:


> (Why not just ban unprotected cells?)


That wouldn't help. A failed protection circuit can also short out a cell. So protected cells might be safer for noob users, but not necessarily safer for shipping.

To me, it would make more sense to limit SoC to such low levels that explosion, vent*-with-flames* events etcetera become virtually impossible. After all the energy contents of a cell is big factor in the outcome. Some reasonable balance between preventing over-discharge and keeping energy contents low should be possible. 40% SoC not low enough? Then lower it further (at least for airmail shipping) and be done with it. Dealers or end users can charge the cells upon receipt.


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## degarb (Nov 27, 2013)

RetroTechie said:


> That wouldn't help. A failed protection circuit can also short out a cell. So protected cells might be safer for noob users, but not necessarily safer for shipping.
> 
> To me, it would make more sense to limit SoC to such low levels that explosion, vent*-with-flames* events etcetera become virtually impossible. After all the energy contents of a cell is big factor in the outcome. Some reasonable balance between preventing over-discharge and keeping energy contents low should be possible. 40% SoC not low enough? Then lower it further (at least for airmail shipping) and be done with it. Dealers or end users can charge the cells upon receipt.




For the layman, SoC, you mean, State of Charge.


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## Sadsack (Nov 27, 2013)

I hope this ban doesn't include lithium coin cell batteries too. Such as cr2016,2032. I put a few cards of them in with my order from Fasttech on 11/13 and the order is still awaiting shipping. If I knew they were also banned I certainly wouldn't have ordered them.


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## EneloopFan (Nov 30, 2013)

Does this ban also extend to rechargeable NiMH batteries or is it just Lithium ion batteries?


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## TinderBox (UK) (Nov 30, 2013)

Just lithium based battery`s NimH are fine, though i ordered a case for my phone from china and it`s been over 30 days, and the explanation for the delay was they now have to xray every parcel looking for lithium battery`s whether this is true or not i dont know.

John.


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## degarb (Nov 30, 2013)

http://www.post.japanpost.jp/int/use/restriction/restriction02_en.pdf

*I still am not clear as to if these cells can be shipped domestically by ground?* 


I cannot help but suppose that any US or Canada Supplier is not relying on the mail to get their cells. So, a matter of time before there is no supplier of 18650's. Maybe the NoFire method. Still, I see only Ultrafire via battery junctions--junk, self exploding cells.

How big an order makes sense to not ship via these postal services?


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## degarb (Nov 30, 2013)

Last year in January, I needed to return an android to china. USPS refused to ship the device, even with the liion inside. UPS would ship it for $250. I paid $170 for the device. 

Declare, package safely, prevent? Or regulate and ban? Doesn't add up.

Also, it is hard not to think that Walmart and partners (best buy) could be behind the ban, since it gives them a competitive advantage. The ban also may have been their only salvation from getting totally eaten by online retailers.


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## degarb (Nov 30, 2013)

https://www.fasttech.com/products/1...nb-tri18650-1a-318650-li-ion-battery-usb-emer

Wonder if this is shippable? Hot glue them in, we could heat gun them out.


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## braddy (Nov 30, 2013)

degarb said:


> Also, it is hard not to think that Walmart and partners (best buy) could be behind the ban, since it gives them a competitive advantage. The ban also may have been their only salvation from getting totally eaten by online retailers.



LOL, a conspiracy from Walmart and Best Buy, because they can't compete online.

Shoppers' 10 Favorite Online Retailers:
1. Amazon.com
2. Walmart.com
3. eBay.com
4. Kohls.com
5. BestBuy.com

TOP 5 LARGEST ONLINE RETAILERS 

4. WALMART.COM

Online sales: $4,900,000,000
2011 Growth: + 19.70%

"Walmart is big. Really big. It operates more than 10.000 retail units in 27 countries. It’s net sales in 2012 increased 5.9% to 443.9 billion dollars. Big as it might be, Walmart did miss the start and that’s one of the reasons it’s “only” no.4 on our list. But worry not – the company expands it’s operations online as aggressively as it does with it’s brick and mortar stores and soon it will be fighting for the top position."


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## Changchung (Nov 30, 2013)

I say post ago, no problems shipping from India, I find a seller in ebay from la India with a lot of panasonic 18650 batteries in stock... I will buy some soon...


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## degarb (Nov 30, 2013)

Changchung said:


> I say post ago, no problems shipping from India, I find a seller in ebay from la India with a lot of panasonic 18650 batteries in stock... I will buy some soon...



Let us know your sources.

braddy, your logic is flawed. In fact, you bolster the argument that they have money to maintain (lobby) to keep their power. Certainly, WM is diversified that if their electronics department disappeared tomorrow, they would hardly be phased (unlike best buy or officemax or staples). This is also true for Target. So there is a convenient covie of interests. Often common interests working in concert to do "evil" is not a conspiracy, just coincidental convergence to do or pass something that hurts the consumer. 

Oddly when motives are pointed out, they are always called conspiracy nuts. And the rest is forgotten.


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## braddy (Nov 30, 2013)

degarb said:


> braddy, your logic is flawed. In fact, you bolster the argument that they have money to maintain (lobby) to keep their power. Certainly, WM is diversified that if their electronics department disappeared tomorrow, they would hardly be phased (unlike best buy or officemax or staples). This is also true for Target. So there is a convenient covie of interests. Often common interests working in concert to do "evil" is not a conspiracy, just coincidental convergence to do or pass something that hurts the consumer.
> 
> Oddly when motives are pointed out, they are always called conspiracy nuts. And the rest is forgotten.


My logic is flawed? Care to quote my statement that you find so logically flawed.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 1, 2013)

Come on guys... let's get some good use out of "Occam's Razor." 

We don't need any conspiracy theories or nefarious business motivations to explain why authorities (throughout the world) are reluctant to accept Li-Ion batteries in general mail. They are simply afraid of fires breaking out in aircraft cargo holds. General mail is sometimes carried in the cargo holds of passenger planes, even though it is most commonly carried by cargo planes. But either way, you don't want to have an aircraft "go down" because some cheap XXX-Fire battery from China suddenly decides to spew flames. 

I am not arguing that such a thing would, _or even could_, ever really happen, I am simply trying to point out that it is this fear that is motivating the enhanced restrictions on shipping Li-Ion batteries by general mail. And, as a practical matter, any such restrictions need to apply fairly uniformly to all countries, so it is increasingly difficult to legally send Li-Ion batteries by international mail, no matter what country you are ordering from. As you know, international mail service is governed by international agreements that require countries to deliver one other's mail, so in order to have any meaning at all, restrictions on so-called "hazardous materials" need to be as uniform as possible.)

*62 Hazardous Materials: International Mail

621 General Requirements

621.1 Mailing Conditions*

In international commerce, the term “dangerous goods” is commonly used to describe hazardous materials.

Almost all hazardous materials are prohibited in international mail. The only mailable hazardous materials are certain infectious substances, excepted quantities of radioactive material that are allowed in domestic mail, certain magnetized materials, and certain lithium and lithium-ion batteries. See Exhibit 621.1 for a summary of the types of hazardous materials that are eligible for mailing in international mail.

In certain situations, the few types of hazardous materials that are generally permitted in international mail may be further restricted by the mailing limitations imposed by an individual country. Because individual countries have unique prohibitions and restrictions, it is always necessary to consult the Individual Country Listings in the IMM to be certain that an otherwise mailable hazardous material is acceptable for shipment to a specific country.





*622.5 Lithium and Lithium-ion Cells and Batteries — General*

Only lithium batteries under 622.51 and 622.52 that are properly installed in the equipment they operate may be sent internationally or to and from an APO, FPO, or DPO location, if permitted by the international destination country or APO, FPO, or DPO location. Lithium batteries that are packed with the equipment or lithium batteries sent separately from equipment are prohibited. Damaged or recalled batteries are prohibited and may not be mailed internationally under any circumstances.

*622.51 Primary Lithium (Non-Rechargeable) Cells and Batteries*

Small consumer-type primary lithium cells or batteries (lithium metal or lithium alloy) like those used to power cameras and flashlights are mailable in a single shipment with the following restrictions:

-The batteries must be installed in the equipment being shipped.
-Each shipment may contain a maximum of four lithium cells or two lithium batteries.
-The lithium content must not exceed 1 gram (g) per cell.
-The total aggregate lithium content must not exceed 2 g per battery.
-The batteries installed in the equipment must be protected from damage and short circuit.
-The equipment must be equipped with an effective means of preventing it from being turned on or activated.
-The equipment must be contained in a strong sealed package and cushioned to prevent movement or damage.

*622.52 Secondary Lithium-ion (Rechargeable) Cells and Batteries*

Small consumer-type lithium-ion cells and batteries like those used to power cell phones and laptop computers are mailable in a single shipment with the following restrictions:

-The batteries must be installed in the equipment being shipped.
-Each shipment may contain a maximum of four lithium-ion cells or two lithium-ion batteries.
-The lithium content must not exceed 20 Watt-hour rating (Wh) per cell.
-The total aggregate lithium content must not exceed 100 Wh per battery.
-Each battery must bear the “Watt-hour” or “Wh” marking on the battery to determine if it is within the limits defined in items c and d.
-The batteries installed in the equipment must be protected from damage and short circuit.
-The equipment must be equipped with an effective means of preventing it from being turned on or activated.
-The equipment must be contained in a strong sealed package and cushioned to prevent movement or damage.


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## sidetracker (Dec 1, 2013)

Here it is Dec. 1st and my order from Fasttech(more like Slooooowtech) still hasn't shown up. I contacted Fasttech and they said the tracking showed the shipment as in transit and for me to wait. Got tired of waiting so I ordered 2 - 14500's from Orbtronics on 11/25 and received them on 11/30. Guess who'll get more of my business. 



sidetracker said:


> Glad I found this posting. Ordered 4 batteries(2 14500's and 2 18650's) from Fasttech on 10/28. They shipped on 11/2 and as of today(11-21) still haven't received them. I've been trying to be patient because I realize they're coming from China, but now I know why there has been such a delay. Guess in the future I'll stick to buying from American vendors.


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## degarb (Dec 1, 2013)

Rosoku Chikara said:


> Come on guys... let's get some good use out of "Occam's Razor."
> 
> *621.1 Mailing Conditions*
> 
> In international commerce, the term “dangerous goods” is commonly used to describe hazardous materials.




Thanks Rosaku! Excellent layout. This better shows us what we are up against.


The heart of the observation is that,the permitted Laptops' and Cell Phone internal battery (by curren tregs.) are always going to be a potential bomb. Yet, a single cell LiIon has ZERO chance of explosion, if packaged with proper SoC and well insulated from external fires.


_As I __read__ it, there are three __root __dangers of LiIon cells: 1. Temp. above 350_°_F. , 2. Shorts (of any kind, including crushing), and 3. Overcharge._


*SoC* voltage check eliminates concerns #2 and #3. 
*Insulation **of individual cell against external heat and flames**,* eliminates concern of number #1. 
_All mail is flammable. But a LiIon cell need not be the source._


The above is it, in the nutshell. 


Other sensible precautions: Crush-proofing, waterproofing, separating cells, prohibiting multi-cell packs where cells cannot be separated,and Prohibiting devices with internal LiIon batterieswithout these precautions. The regs. are backwards.


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## Yamabushi (Dec 1, 2013)

degarb said:


> Thanks Rosaku! Excellent layout. This better shows us what we are up against. ... The above is it, in the nutshell.



As Rosoku correctly points out, "Because individual countries have unique prohibitions and restrictions, *it is always necessary to consult the Individual Country Listings* in the IMM to be certain that an otherwise mailable hazardous material is acceptable for shipment to a specific country."

Many postal services (including, IIRC, Hong Kong Post and China Post) don't allow the 622.5 exemption.


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## Kueh (Dec 2, 2013)

I'm wondering if Ebay buyers & sellers are experiencing the same problems? 

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk 4


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## levi333 (Dec 4, 2013)

Got a full refund from Fasttech on my september order that never made it thru customs. Would have preferred the batteries I ordered but at least I'm not out anything but time.


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## ven (Dec 4, 2013)

Maybe try banggood,received my 7 x 18650 sanyo protected cells yesterday,took around 10days from china to uk.I was expecting issues,guess its hit and miss..........


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## Frijid (Dec 4, 2013)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Tesla is behind this. Mark my words.
> 
> Chris





+1 





fwiw, hasn't USPS been restricting LI-ON batteries in the mail? everytime i'm in line waiting to buy stamps, i always scan the "restricted" items poster on the wall, and i can vaguely remember seeing something about LI-ON batteries.


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## KITROBASKIN (Dec 4, 2013)

Recently sent a ZebraLight SC52 by United States Postal Service. Showed them the primary lithium AA inside. Their recent (?) guidelines allow lithium IN devices. It was shipped and delivered lickety-split, no joke.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 4, 2013)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Recently sent a ZebraLight SC52 by United States Postal Service. Showed them the primary lithium AA inside. Their recent (?) guidelines allow lithium IN devices. It was shipped and delivered lickety-split, no joke.



That is the first stated condition in the 622.5 exemptions, for both primary and secondary lithium cells and batteries: "*-The batteries must be installed in the equipment being shipped."*


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## chance91 (Dec 4, 2013)

So, I ordered from Fasttech a few panasonic 18650 2-packs last week, after reading here and on their website about the restriction, just to see what happened. I received an email yesterday they were shipped via Malaysia post. Go figure. I will keep everyone posted as to when they arrive, if they do, and what the current state of their being on fire and spitting flames is. Hopefully they have a good workaround with this method. They shipped them in protective containers.


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## pabcor (Dec 5, 2013)

All batteries from Fasttech are Sold Out. With Dx no problem or delay. (to Spain)


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## Changchung (Dec 5, 2013)

degarb said:


> Okay, I will check mtelectronics site that out. http://www.mtelectronics.net/index2.html ? Useful info.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not .net is .com


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## RetroTechie (Dec 5, 2013)

degarb said:


> Yet, a single cell LiIon has ZERO chance of explosion, if packaged with proper SoC and well insulated from external fires.


Given that a protection circuit might also cause a short, that's not true for protected cells. Also I don't see how changing pressure / temperature conditions inside a cargo hold couldn't cause a (badly manufactured) cell to develop internal shorts. Low chance, yes. Zero? Nope. SoC is a big variable, though.

Allowing cells inside equipment makes sense as far as "monitored cells" goes. And if that explodes, that would be "exploding cell inside equipment XYZ" vs. "exploding bare cell". For flashlights, that makes little sense as alu-built flashlight + Li-ion cell is basically a pipebomb. :duck:


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## RetroTechie (Dec 5, 2013)

Seems a few 18650's I ordered from DX, got through alright. Makes me wonder how much of that is " better shipping procedure", and how much of that is "ignore rules, plain old luck". :thinking:


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## Changchung (Dec 5, 2013)

From a spain forum, 4 18650 3400 just received from banggood shipped 11/17 China to Spain


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## Holiday (Dec 6, 2013)

but my battery order from wallbuys is OK, I can track my order online in 4th December


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## Kueh (Dec 6, 2013)

Should the topic be changed to "Batteries not being mailed from Fasttech" ? Seems like Fasttech has ruffled someone's scales. 

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


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## nightowl66 (Dec 8, 2013)

Ordered a couple 18650's from Fastech 4 weeks ago. Just got email that my money was refunded. Every time I checked tracking the past few weeks, they were in Hong Kong


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## RIX TUX (Dec 8, 2013)

nightowl66 said:


> Ordered a couple 18650's from Fastech 4 weeks ago. Just got email that my money was refunded. Every time I checked tracking the past few weeks, they were in Hong Kong


*try ebay seller r-lsales* 
they are in the US, I have ordered other types of batteries from them with no shipping problems


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## nightowl66 (Dec 9, 2013)

RIX TUX said:


> *try ebay seller r-lsales*
> they are in the US, I have ordered other types of batteries from them with no shipping problems



couldn't find a ebay seller by that name


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 9, 2013)

nightowl66 said:


> couldn't find a ebay seller by that name



r-lsales (134,506 Feedback) 
Positive Feedback (last 12 months): 99.8% 
Member since: Jul-04-99 in United States
eBay Store: RL-batterydepot

(Never purchased from him, but he is there to be found.)


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## DellSuperman (Dec 9, 2013)

Has anyone bought from WallBuys? 
They currently ship li-ion batteries but only a pair per shipment.. 
Plus their prices are much lower than Dealextreme. 

- JonK


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## RetroTechie (Dec 11, 2013)

Received a packet from DX yesterday, containing 3 pcs 18650's and big letters "BY AIR MAIL" on it. Appears to have been mailed in Shanghai (SH Post). Took <3 weeks from placing the order, and tracking info showed no delays/problems with customs whatsoever.  Should have a 2nd packet from DX here shortly, with (among other things) also an 18650 in it.

Not sure what's going on here... :thinking: Have the rules changed in the meanwhile? China customs officials turning a blind eye? Simply a lucky break?


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## Lightning Bub (Dec 11, 2013)

I bought twelve unprotected NCR18650B batteries from Amazon(sold by Urban Source, fulfilled by Amazon) last week. When they arrived yesterday, the three little cardboard boxes had opened up inside the shipping box, and all twelve of them were just bouncing around in the box. It's a good thing they are flat tops, or they most assuredly would have shorted out and could have caused a fire.


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## degarb (Dec 11, 2013)

Lightning Bub said:


> I bought twelve unprotected NCR18650B batteries from Amazon(sold by Urban Source, fulfilled by Amazon) last week. When they arrived yesterday, the three little cardboard boxes had opened up inside the shipping box, and all twelve of them were just bouncing around in the box. It's a good thing they are flat tops, or they most assuredly would have shorted out and could have caused a fire.




I think the DX.com batteries I have recieved in the past came in protective stiff plastic 18650 holders. These holders are not manadatory, since the shell would offer short/crush proofing to a degree?


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## DellSuperman (Dec 11, 2013)

Lightning Bub said:


> I bought twelve unprotected NCR18650B batteries from Amazon(sold by Urban Source, fulfilled by Amazon) last week. When they arrived yesterday, the three little cardboard boxes had opened up inside the shipping box, and all twelve of them were just bouncing around in the box. It's a good thing they are flat tops, or they most assuredly would have shorted out and could have caused a fire.



Thats awfully dangerous, i tot these people would have been more careful with packing li-ion cells after what happened.. 

And all my batteries from Dx/FT came in those plastic cases. At least i know they won't be bouncing around inside. Haha.. 

- JonK


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 11, 2013)

RetroTechie said:


> ...Not sure what's going on here... :thinking: Have the rules changed in the meanwhile? China customs officials turning a blind eye? Simply a lucky break? ...<snip>



What was your package declared as? Superficially, I think the burden is on the local post office employee who accepts the package to examine the customs declaration to see if the item being mailed is safe or not. (Legally, I think the burden is always on the shipper to know the laws, and not mail any illegal or unsafe items.)

I haven't been paying close attention lately, but DX did use the highly descriptive word "Various" to describe the latest flashlights that I ordered, even though they were all of the same make and model. But, as I recall, DX is especially fond of the word "Gadget" to describe a wide range of their products.

While I do not really recommend that anyone purchase low-cost Li-Ion cells from DX (or other similar sites), I do believe that having them shipped together with another 2-3 cheap items will both decrease the chances of them ever being clearly declared as "Batteries" and increase the chances of passing the typically cursory (and, in my experience, increasingly rare) customs inspection when they reach the destination country. (I recommend "2-3 cheap items" because you may be running the risk of having the entire package confiscated.)


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## RetroTechie (Dec 11, 2013)

Rosoku Chikara said:


> What was your package declared as?


Category: "Gift" (yeah right :devil: )
Description: "GADGET", below that "18650/16340/A***"

So a customs officer should know this might contain a lithium battery. Not sure, but I _suspect_ some regulations have been bent here. :thinking:

I'm happy with the result, but don't feel good about how these things go. If it's okay to ship a few 18650's in airmail, then just say so, tell how to package safely & ship the damn things! If not okay, don't do it & find another way to send them overseas.


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## Lightning Bub (Dec 11, 2013)

DellSuperman said:


> Thats awfully dangerous, i tot these people would have been more careful with packing li-ion cells after what happened..
> 
> And all my batteries from Dx/FT came in those plastic cases. At least i know they won't be bouncing around inside. Haha..
> 
> - JonK



Amazon sent me a survey on the packaging, and I let them know how dangerous it was.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 11, 2013)

RetroTechie said:


> ...If it's okay to ship a few 18650's in airmail, then just say so, tell how to package safely & ship the damn things! If not okay, don't do it & find another way to send them overseas... <snip>



I think the regulations are fairly clear, although not necessarily very effective (nor logical). And, of course, these regulations do vary from country to country. However, my understanding is that your "safest bet" (one that will "work" in the most countries), is to have the batteries shipped already installed in some item that they are designed to power. (A cheap flashlight or some kind of "emergency" iPhone charging device comes to mind.) They may still be doing the same sort of thing, but I remember back when NewEgg would always include a cheap cable in with your OEM OS, so that they could legally argue that they only sold such software as a "set" in combination with computer hardware.

Anyway, it seems pretty clear that the way that *Lightning Bub* received his most recent shipment was unsafe, and could have caused a dangerous fire in some airplane cargo hold. 



> I bought twelve unprotected NCR18650B batteries from Amazon(sold by Urban Source, fulfilled by Amazon) last week. When they arrived yesterday, the three little cardboard boxes had opened up inside the shipping box, and all twelve of them were just bouncing around in the box. It's a good thing they are flat tops, or they most assuredly would have shorted out and could have caused a fire.


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## nzgunnie (Dec 13, 2013)

It really has nothing to do with customs. The restriction is because of the IATA dangerous goods regulations, and is the shippers responsibility. The carrier shouldn't be accepting the packages for transport since they are no prepared or labelled in accordance with the IATA DGR, so should not be on an aircraft.


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## Rosoku Chikara (Dec 13, 2013)

nzgunnie said:


> It really has nothing to do with customs. The restriction is because of the IATA dangerous goods regulations, and is the shippers responsibility. The carrier shouldn't be accepting the packages for transport since they are no prepared or labelled in accordance with the IATA DGR, so should not be on an aircraft.



Thanks for the additional information. I take it then, that the pertinent document is the following? 

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/cargo/dgr/Documents/Lithium-Battery-Guidance-2014.pdf

Up until now, I had been thinking terms of Postal Regulations, and I detailed some of the pertinent US Postal Regulations in an previous post. I agree that it is not the customs agent's responsibility to make sure that you don't ship such items, but I have in fact had some items confiscated by Japanese customs upon entry into Japan, due to the fact that they were deemed to be hazardous or perhaps "Dangerous Goods" as defined in the above document. (Of course, they were, however, already off of the plane, and on Japanese soil.)

Here is a photo of the goods in question:




These "goods in question" are little tiny "fire works" that emit a very small "pop" when the string is pulled. (They really are quite small. This photo is enlarged.) There is no real fire associated with these "fire works." (No matches or lighting of fuses involved.) And, there were a total of 10 of these little packages in the shipment. Yet, I was told by customs that these could not be imported in Japan, and not only that, I would have to pay over $700.00 to have such hazardous materials disposed of in a safe manner!

I am a very calm person, but I did explain to them (in the very very polite Japanese way) that they should simply flush the things down the nearest toliet... and, if they tried to actually charge me for "hazardous substance disposal" they would rue the day. (If necessary, I was willing and ready to get a television crew involved, and "expose" their little money making operation. I never heard from them again, but I am sure many others in Japan have been forced to "pay-up" for similar honest mistakes. Also, it would have been a more difficult problem for me, if there had been other, more valuable items included in the same shipment.)


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## tonijedi (Dec 16, 2013)

Kueh said:


> I'm wondering if Ebay buyers & sellers are experiencing the same problems?
> 
> Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk 4


I have four 18650 batterires on transit, some for just a week others for almost 5 weeks. I think I'll have to ask for a refund for those old ones...


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## sidetracker (Dec 16, 2013)

After about 6 weeks of no batteries, I received my refund from Fasttech. So I ordered batteries from Orbtronic and received them quickly with no problems.


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## tonijedi (Dec 17, 2013)

Any suggestions for european shops that sell 18650's at good prices?


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## Visna (Dec 17, 2013)

i ordered about 3 weeks ago 4pcs ncr 18650b on ebay , arrived yesterday, in two boxes, by air mail from singapore to slovakia 

Marek


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## __philippe (Dec 17, 2013)

tonijedi said:


> Any suggestions for european shops that sell 18650's at good prices?



http://tinyurl.com/q2xfgwp

Cheers,

__philippe


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## tonijedi (Dec 17, 2013)

__philippe said:


> http://tinyurl.com/q2xfgwp
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> __philippe


Thanks, the shipping costs seem reasonable. Thank you very much.


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## Holiday (Dec 19, 2013)

wallbuys site notice : Now more and more customers give us good feedback and receive their battery orders after 20 working days, so there is no battery issue in wallbuys now. any problem send a email to us
it seems that their batteries can ship normally


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## den331 (Dec 23, 2013)

Just bought 4x ncr18650 from ebay it shipped to me in Canada. I told the seller mark as a gift . They shipped it in a battery plastic case


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## stevo250 (Dec 24, 2013)

I just received 20 keeppower 18650s from cnqualitygoods to canada


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## Changchung (Dec 24, 2013)

stevo250 said:


> I just received 20 keeppower 18650s from cnqualitygoods to canada



20??? 😳 I want 😫


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## tonijedi (Dec 25, 2013)

I received one 18650 that was mailed with tracking number. The other batteries from other sellers that didn't provide tracking number are still to arrive. I don't know if the tracking makes any difference but I got both a PD35 and a 18650 in less than 2 weeks while normally all other orders (untracked) take about 1 month to arrive. I bought from eBay and there wasn't extra charges for the tracking (it wasn't even stated that they will provide it, that it's just free shipping).


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## DellSuperman (Jan 5, 2014)

I got my 2 separate orders of 2 x 18650 from WallBuy, approximately 3weeks after i order. 
I'm from Singapore, btw.. 

They even declared that the package contains Lithium ion cells. 

- JonK


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## Rod911 (Jan 6, 2014)

I have only had 2 pairs of King Kong 26650 from FastTech not arrive, despite FT saying they sent it. Otherwise, I received the following over the last month:
- 6 * Panasonic NCR18650PF from FastTech
- 16 * Panasonic NCR18650B from Wallbuys (2 separate orders of 10 and 6 cells)
- 4 * King Kong 26650 from an eBay seller based in China


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## DellSuperman (Jan 6, 2014)

Rod911 said:


> I have only had 2 pairs of King Kong 26650 from FastTech not arrive, despite FT saying they sent it. Otherwise, I received the following over the last month:
> - 6 * Panasonic NCR18650PF from FastTech
> - 16 * Panasonic NCR18650B from Wallbuys (2 separate orders of 10 and 6 cells)
> - 4 * King Kong 26650 from an eBay seller based in China



How did u get to purchase 10 batteries at one time from WallBuy? 
I was only allowed to buy 1 pair per order.. 

- JonK


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## Rod911 (Jan 6, 2014)

DellSuperman said:


> How did u get to purchase 10 batteries at one time from WallBuy?
> I was only allowed to buy 1 pair per order..
> 
> - JonK


I put it in my cart and clicked on buy? No issues for either orders. The first 10 order, no message at all. As for the 6 cell order, they did say any order larger than one pair, they'd have to deliver it a pair at a time. It didn't turn out like that as I got all 6 cells in one package.


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## DellSuperman (Jan 6, 2014)

Rod911 said:


> I put it in my cart and clicked on buy? No issues for either orders. The first 10 order, no message at all. As for the 6 cell order, they did say any order larger than one pair, they'd have to deliver it a pair at a time. It didn't turn out like that as I got all 6 cells in one package.



I see. It's my first time buying from that website, hence i didn't order more than 1 pair after seeing that message. I'll try it out again. 
Btw, i am assuming all ur cells come bubble wrapped individually w/o the plastic case. Right? 
Both my orders of batteries are like that.. 

- JonK


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## Rod911 (Jan 6, 2014)

Yup, bubble wrapped. The 6 cell order, annoyingly, each individual cell was bubble wrapped.


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## degarb (Jan 6, 2014)

Helo! Don't see a way to create an account at wallbuy, without purchase or being a wholesaler.


Seems spelling mistakes on site doesn't slow down shipping.


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## kosPap (Jan 7, 2014)

Today i got batteries from Wallbuy.
With registered Malaysian post and a sticker on the package


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## Bumble (Jan 7, 2014)

Fasttech have started selling batteries again. paid $12.54 for TWO panasonic NCR18650PF delivered.


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## DellSuperman (Jan 7, 2014)

Bumble said:


> Fasttech have started selling batteries again. paid $12.54 for TWO panasonic NCR18650PF delivered.



Yup, saw that last night too! 

- JonK


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## Redstorm (Jan 11, 2014)

I ordered 4 pcs of Panasonic 18650 3100mAh batteries from DX and I received them within a few days after they were shipped out. They sent it via Dpex Worldwide to me in Singapore. I dunno if it is by air as I threw away all my wrappers and the way bill. I guess it should be otherwise it will take more than a week if by surface mail. Now, I am waiting for my 4 pieces of 14500 batteries.


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## DellSuperman (Jan 12, 2014)

Thats very fast to receive them a few days after getting the shipping notification. 
I usually have to wait close to 2 weeks to receive my orders. 
I'm from Singapore too, btw.. 

- JonK


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## Redstorm (Jan 16, 2014)

Today, I received my 4 x 14500 batteries from DX which were sent to me by Air Mail thru China Post in Shanghai!! I am wondering how their products managed to slip thru the Customs' X-ray machine or were they even X-ray at all in the first place. Am sure mine is not the only one that were sent by air.


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## pko (Jan 16, 2014)

Redstorm said:


> Today, I received my 4 x 14500 batteries from DX which were sent to me by Air Mail thru China Post in Shanghai!! I am wondering how their products managed to slip thru the Customs' X-ray machine or were they even X-ray at all in the first place. Am sure mine is not the only one that were sent by air.



I was told that as long as the battery is properly packed and protected against damage in transit, it may suffer delay due to inspection but will arrive eventually.


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## Redstorm (Jan 16, 2014)

pko said:


> I was told that as long as the battery is properly packed and protected against damage in transit, it may suffer delay due to inspection but will arrive eventually.



I don't think that is the case. I recently read an article in this forum about the prohibition of certain items from air transportation, among which is Lithium batteries and the only exception is that they must be stored in the device. So, packing the batteries in any other way is still prohibited.


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## KiwiMark (Jan 21, 2014)

4 x Unprotected Panasonic 3,400mAh 18650 cells (button top for compatibility with more lights).
Ordered from Wallbuys and they arrived in New Zealand 5 days later, not bad for free shipping!

I did notice that the description on the package did not mention Li-Ion or Lithium or Batteries, a little naughty but I'll let it go just this once.


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## Redstorm (Jan 21, 2014)

KiwiMark said:


> 4 x Unprotected Panasonic 3,400mAh 18650 cells (button top for compatibility with more lights).
> Ordered from Wallbuys and they arrived in New Zealand 5 days later, not bad for free shipping!
> 
> I did notice that the description on the package did not mention Li-Ion or Lithium or Batteries, a little naughty but I'll let it go just this once.



Regardless of what is stated on the package, I am sure all parcels will have to be scanned by the customs before they are allowed to be sent out. So labelling as anything other than lithium batteries is not going to exempt the packet from being scanned or distract them during the scan. But, my package was labelled as "gadget" and sent out by air. My guess is that the customs there was lax in their duties allowing the parcels to go thru.


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## mojo-chan (Jan 22, 2014)

Just a thought guys. Two aircraft have come down due to suspected lithium battery fires. Don't try to circumvent the rules, they are there for a reason. Unprotected cells on aircraft are not a good idea.


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## HKJ (Jan 22, 2014)

mojo-chan said:


> Just a thought guys. Two aircraft have come down due to suspected lithium battery fires. Don't try to circumvent the rules, they are there for a reason. Unprotected cells on aircraft are not a good idea.



I does not have anything to do with protected/unprotected cells. Protected cells might be slightly more risky, due to being more prone to physical damage
It might have to do with cells in equipment (This increases the risk and a laptop battery pack is sort of equipment) or with old cells. Many modern cells has an improved internal protection call heat resistive layer, that will automatic disable the cell if it gets hot.


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## markr6 (Jan 22, 2014)

HKJ said:


> I does not have anything to do with protected/unprotected cells. Protected cells might be slightly more risky, due to being more prone to physical damage
> It might have to do with cells in equipment (This increases the risk and a laptop battery pack is sort of equipment) or with old cells. Many modern cells has an improved internal protection call heat resistive layer, that will automatic disable the cell if it gets hot.



Beat me to it! Exactly.

I'm tired of all the hype about Li-Ion safety. I understand it can be a problem, but almost anything can. That's life.

Who knows what happened on airplane incidents. One out of 100,000 cells could have been damaged by a box getting crushed on a pallet. Or a million other scenarios. But if they want to be extra cautious about them on airplanes I understand since it's so dramatic. On the other hand, if a UPS truck caught fire we'd probably never hear about it.


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## psychbeat (Jan 22, 2014)

mojo-chan said:


> Just a thought guys. Two aircraft have come down due to suspected lithium battery fires. Don't try to circumvent the rules, they are there for a reason. Unprotected cells on aircraft are not a good idea.



If you'd ever had the PCB strip from the protection circuit short on you, you might feel a little different about protected cells! 

It's pretty scary!


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## mojo-chan (Jan 22, 2014)

Yeah, sorry, I meant not packaged properly rather than not having protection circuits. We have seen some really bad cells that don't have proper vents and stuff like that (mostly primary cells). Then people just shove them in a plastic bag and an envelope. They don't call them "Ultrafire" for nothing.


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## kreisl (May 9, 2017)

i tried to order 18650 batteli from Fasttech today , spring 2017 .

i am located in gemani . 

dis is what i got :







It says "Some". Which is correct.

But the full truth is that "All" shipping methods are greyed out! Thus i cannot proceed with the order process, it is an impasse. Clearly, the order process should tell me something like "Sorry, there is no shipping option currently available. Please change cart contents or change shipping destination or both, and try again. Sorry again for the inconvenience. Fasttech."

So, FT is out. I could still try to order batteries from AX, BG, or GB. They are my go-to websites for ordering China stuffy.


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## TinderBox (UK) (May 9, 2017)

I used http://www.kaidomain.com/ for my last 2 orders, they took around 2 weeks, and came with an free (super cheap) AA led flashlight and cleaning cloth.

I think including the free flashlight gets around the shipping restriction.

John.


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## KiwiMark (May 14, 2017)

kreisl said:


> i tried to order 18650 batteli from Fasttech today , spring 2017 .
> 
> But the full truth is that "All" shipping methods are greyed out! Thus i cannot proceed with the order process, it is an impasse. Clearly, the order process should tell me something like "Sorry, there is no shipping option currently available. Please change cart contents or change shipping destination or both, and try again. Sorry again for the inconvenience. Fasttech."
> 
> So, FT is out. I could still try to order batteries from AX, BG, or GB. They are my go-to websites for ordering China stuffy.



I've had no luck with FT or BG so I'm not hopeful of success from GB either.
I've had worse luck with AX but eventually managed to get my money back after a LOT of messages back and forth.
I've now given up on China & HK sources and bought my last Li-Ion cells from http://www.illumn.com who shipped to New Zealand just fine, more expensive but at least I could get some new good quality cells.

I also bought some 32700 LiFePO4 cells from http://www.batteryspace.com/LiFePO4/LiFeMnPO4-Batteries.aspx for my Maglite 6D that I extended to 7D, again they were expensive but I got the cells and got my big Maglite outputting good light.


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## TinderBox (UK) (May 14, 2017)

Getting items shipped from Hong Kong is usually a lot quicker than from China, So if you have the option ship from HK.

John.


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