# Q3 Rechargable!! - The Q3-R Forum :)



## CroMAGnet (Jan 10, 2005)

Ok! I just received my new rechargable R123 Battery from BatteryStation and popped it into my Q3. Loox like it came fully charged. 

I also ordered a few extra 123s for my [other lights] so I put in a fresh 123 and put it directly on my light meter. it measured 900,000 LUX (not at 1-meter) Then I put in the rechargable and it came in at 1,650,000 LUX (not at 1-meter) Then I took the square root of each (like quickbeam's formula but mot at 1-meter) and the numbers came to be 30 and 40 respectively. 

All this mean's is that the Q3 with rechargable batteries to start has at least 33% more output. Am I missing something?

I didn't get any instructions with my new charger and battery. Does anyone know how long it takes to charge? Are there any other precautions I should take or do while using this charger/battery?

This has probably already been discussed but just wanted to throw up this first impression of the rechargables and Q3.
Thanks for looking /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## chevrofreak (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Looks can be decieving. When my JSB-123's arrived they had some juice in them, and tested at something like 3.4 volts, but they still took about 5 hours each to charge.

When fully charged my JSB's were 3.85 volts, and didnt blow my TM-301X-3. I got 23 minutes of tremendous brightness, and the head got HOT! I guess that should be expected when feeding a light 7.7 volts rather than 6


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Need to do this a little more accurately just to make sure. Amazing thing is the numbers I got using the regular battery in the Q3 are exactly the same as Quickbeam's review!! 

Standard CR123 600 LUX @ 1-meter
BatteryStation Rechargable R123 990 LUX at 1-meter

Estimated non-scientific results while applying the inverse square law, used by Quickbeam;

Standard CR123 24.49 meters of throwing power
Rechargable R123 31.46 meters of throwing power

That's 28% more throwing power and since we are using the same light we can assume that the Output has also increase 28% (I'll test that with Gadget_Lover's 'bird cooker' when we get together in February if I remember) In fact that might help corralate accuracy of the cooker...


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## chevrofreak (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

That is a very healthy boost indeed!


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## CPFMan (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

That's quite exciting indeed. With the extra boost, will it hurt Q3 in the long term? How about led, is it overtaxing it?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## Freedom1955 (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

[ QUOTE ]
*CPFMan said:*
That's quite exciting indeed. With the extra boost, will it hurt Q3 in the long term? How about led, is it overtaxing it?

I'm wondering the same thing.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]


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## code09 (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

nice! i just bought some rechargables...i cant wait!


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## AR15Fan (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

I just got my charger today. It'd not the one pictured on the Battery station website though. It a black two port one. My battery appeared to be fully charged. I'm still waiting on a spare battery.


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## IsaacHayes (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

CromagNet: if you want even more zing from your Q3, pop in a 20mm IMS reflector. It's not orange peel, but will throw farther!


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## code09 (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Isaac, where do we go about getting one of these reflectors?


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## SilverFox (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Hello CromagNet,

I think part of the increase is that primary 123 cells have a voltage of 3 volts where rechargeable 123's have a voltage of 3.7 volts.

Tom


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Hey thanks everyone for all the tips. 

Isaac: I really like tho OP and not looking for more throw. I like the higher output and white white white! (with a teeeny bit of blue) My Ombu still has more umff all around. But the reflector idea you mentioned would definately get more throw and output. which many other will want to do /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SilverFox... Thanks for all your help as I was learning about this one. I am really pleased with it. Now if I can just do the same thing for my Ombu /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## OZ (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

[ QUOTE ]
*AR15Fan said:*
I just got my charger today. It'd not the one pictured on the Battery station website though. It a black two port one. My battery appeared to be fully charged. I'm still waiting on a spare battery. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I got the same one today as you did AR15Fan. I emailed Kevin @ Battery Station earlier today and asked if it had the same properties as the one pictured on his site.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

HEY! Now that you mention it. That's what I got too. Let us know if anyone finds out differences.


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## Nanook (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

That's funny. I just received the same two port charger today as well. We must have had a "4:20" moment of ordering rechargeables. My charger didn't come with instructions either, but the back of it says "charge with constant current and constant voltage" so I wonder if it has a trickle charge and is safe to leave batteries in it for long.

While I don't have a light meter, I am thrilled with the apparent increase of guilt free output. I hastily took one of the two batteries and stuck it in my Q3, but the other one measured about 3.8V fresh off its first charge.
[Edit] On its second charge, it measured 4.04V.

On a side note, I finally managed to get the head off to check my bin (SX1L) by leaving it on for about 5 minutes. Got pretty toasty!

I'll watch this thread for further news, rather than sending a duplicate email.


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## nonbox (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Does any one have pics of the two port charger?
How much time does it take to fully charge a R123?
Can you charge one cell at a time?
Do the R123 heat up when left too long on the charger?
How many cycles do you get from these R123s in this two port charger?
How does this two port charger compare to the competition?


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## LightHearted (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Funny, I got the same charger on the same day. What is not funny is that mine also came with no instructions whatsoever. This is more than a little disheartening considering all the precautions I hear about rechargeable lithium ions and I am a relative newbie at this. 











In defense of the Battery Station, it did arrive quickly and came with a home and car adpater. They even gave me a pen and a calendar.


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## chevrofreak (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

With protected batteries, they shut off internally when they get full, so the charger could probably be left on indefinately.

Very interesting that these are testing at 3.8 volts for a 3.7 volt cell, and my JSB-123's test at 3.85 volts for a "3v nominal" cell....


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## OZ (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

I just got a email reply from Kevin @ Battery Station, regarding the new chargers here's what he wrote:

"Yes, it is a better charger but not updated picture yet. The smart part is really in the battery. NOT regulated but protected. Still tops at just over 4V."

I also got the pen and calender which I thought was a good touch.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

** OK BIG UPDATE ** I just got off the phone with Kevin at Battery station. I was trying to type exactly what he was saying as he was saying it so excuse the syntax or potential confusion...

-- New charger does one or two at a time. Uses bi-color LED to monitor. Starts red and goes green when done. Leave it on all the time. Kevin leaves spare in there all the time for days and then just swap out. Does NOT get hot. It's a slow charge, 4-hours approx time to charge if dead. They have been testing them, so many come fully charged already. Topping at about 4.2v off the charger. They tried a regulated batteries at 300-400mAh (because of space requiring regulator in battery) Non regulated are 700mAh. They were frying under heavy current. So regulated will not work in some lights and fries the regulator. So they scrapped the regulated project. NO regulated Battery. THEY ARE PROTECTED BUT NOT REGULATED. Kevin.

I hope I got all that write. Please correct any errors Kevin and thanks for the help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

NOTE: They have been burried with a lot of end of year and new software stuff and just wanted to get product to you guys as quick as possible.

PS Kevin said they have been using them in dual set-up lights and they worked without problem. Voltage went up from 6.6v to 7.4v making for brighter lights. So I ordered two more and am hoping it will work in my Ombu X33... I'll post here when I test :fingers crossed:


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## RonnieBarlow (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

So, in a nutshell, these batteries will feed a Q3 without any problems whatsoever. Right?

How would these perform in a Micra, I wonder?...


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## LightHearted (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Thansk for the update. I seem to be having a problem with one of my betteries. One looks like it just went dead while in my Q3. When my batteries arrived I measured them at 4.0v and 3.8v. I put the 4.0v in my Q3 and have been measuring the voltage after every few minutes of use. My last measurement was 3.7v minutes before the light went out. I measured the battery and it now reads ZERO! Nada. Zilch. It does not appear to be taking charge as the red light on the charger will not come on. Great. I hope I don't have to worry about this little bomb exploding in my house. Guess I'll call Battery Station and see what they'll do. Anyone else having problems?

Ken


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## OZ (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

KLM by looks of your photos, you might have your batteries reversed. My charger has the the negative contact towards the LED indicator.
Try looking at yours and see if it's the same


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

WOW! Bummer KLM... Please keep us posted. ...


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## LightHearted (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*OZ said:*
you might have your batteries reversed

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Yep, you are correct. Okay, that's embarrassing. After putting it in the charger CORRECTLY the battery that read 0.0 now appears to be taking a charge. 

Also, I called Battery Station about the battery that went dead and spoke to Kevin. He said that some of the batteries they tested did that when under heavy load. It's a protective board in the battery that breaks the circuit to protec the cell. Hopefully, all will be copacetic now. They really shouldn't let stupid people play with these things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Thanks,
Ken


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## chevrofreak (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*CromagNet said:*
PS Kevin said they have been using them in dual set-up lights and they worked without problem. Voltage went up from 6.6v to 7.4v making for brighter lights. So I ordered two more and am hoping it will work in my Ombu X33... I'll post here when I test :fingers crossed: 

[/ QUOTE ]

The X-33 is the same as my TM-301X-3, which was being pushed at 7.7 volts without any apparent problems, but pushing at 8.4 could possibly present some...... Let us know how it turns out, and expect the head to get HOT!!!!


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

KLM that's the good news /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chevrofreak: Did you end up giving that to your sister? I'm wondering if it will come down to the bin. Maybe one will handle the increase and a different one wont. 

My Q3 say SYOL on it. S Flux = 51.7 to 67.2 Lumens with 635 to 755mW --- YO = 0.292 to 0.307 tint cool white /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ---- L forward voltage Vf = 3.75 to 3.99V

So If I'm running the Q3 at 4.2 on this bin it should be overdriving it just a bit when battery is fresh. Is that correct? will it be ok? (I'd think it would be)I'm going to boil my X-33 (brb)

TX1K bin. The beam is white but with a bit of green/yellow compared to Q3.
So ... T Flux = 67.2 to 87.4 Lumens with 755 to 875mW Power
X1 tint but with Vf only 3.51 to 3.75V 

If running these rechargables in series creates 6.6v to 7.4v at 700mAh my poor little X-33 TX1K wont take the strain. 

I can't believe I just spewed this out! Wow... are those calculations correct? And what are the consequences?

What's the bin on your X-3 Chevro?


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## koala (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]

If running these rechargables in series creates 6.6v to 7.4v at 700mAh my poor little X-33 TX1K wont take the strain. 

[/ QUOTE ]

It can be much higher than you think. There is peak current in this circuit design where normal dmm will average out the current. You will need a scope to look at the peak.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hmmm... I was just trying to run down the new rechargable battery by leaving the Q3 on. After about 5 minutes I touched it and it felt cool. After about 15 or 20 min it made a really good hand warmer. So I turned it off and took out the battery, which was not really warm.


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## Billson (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*CromagNet said:*
** OK BIG UPDATE ** I just got off the phone with Kevin at Battery station. I was trying to type exactly what he was saying as he was saying it so excuse the syntax or potential confusion...

-- New charger does one or two at a time. Uses bi-color LED to monitor. Starts red and goes green when done. Leave it on all the time. Kevin leaves spare in there all the time for days and then just swap out. Does NOT get hot. It's a slow charge, 4-hours approx time to charge if dead. They have been testing them, so many come fully charged already. Topping at about 4.2v off the charger. They tried a regulated batteries at 300-400mAh (because of space requiring regulator in battery) Non regulated are 700mAh. They were frying under heavy current. So regulated will not work in some lights and fries the regulator. So they scrapped the regulated project. NO regulated Battery. THEY ARE PROTECTED BUT NOT REGULATED. Kevin.

I hope I got all that write. Please correct any errors Kevin and thanks for the help /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

NOTE: They have been burried with a lot of end of year and new software stuff and just wanted to get product to you guys as quick as possible.

PS Kevin said they have been using them in dual set-up lights and they worked without problem. Voltage went up from 6.6v to 7.4v making for brighter lights. So I ordered two more and am hoping it will work in my Ombu X33... I'll post here when I test :fingers crossed: 

[/ QUOTE ]

Please correct me if I'm wrong. The cells are protected to prevent over-charging and over-discharging. I don't understand what you mean by regulated.

I asked Kevin over email regarding the old charger and he said that the charger is smart so it means it should be able to charge both protected and unprotected cells as well as higher capacity cells of the future. Does this also apply to the new charger? Can anyone verify this with Kevin?

Thanks.


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## Mike Painter (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*CromagNet said:*
Hmmm... I was just trying to run down the new rechargable battery by leaving the Q3 on. After about 5 minutes I touched it and it felt cool. After about 15 or 20 min it made a really good hand warmer. So I turned it off and took out the battery, which was not really warm. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine got turned on somehow in it's pouch, how long I don't know but probably close to an hour judging by how long it lasted afterward. It was to hot to hold firmly for more than a second or two.


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## Kevin Tan (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Its not the batts heating up, but the LS. The heat u felt is the alu body doing its job of conducting the heat from under the LS star. Thats why its recommended to hold a flashlight if haviung it on for extended runtime. The blood circulation takes away the heat from the body of the flashlight.


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## LightScene (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Does anybody know how many charges these batteries will take?


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## Hallis (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

a few hundred charges

Shane


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## LightScene (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Has anybody found out what the runtime is for one of these R123s in a Q3?

The R123 has a capacity of 700 mAh and Energizer CR123A has a capacity of 1300 mAh. Does that mean the R123 should last about 45 minutes to an hour? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif ... maybe less, since more power is being consumed. Maybe only half an hour?


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## LightScene (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

[ QUOTE ]
*MLong said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*CPFMan said:*
That's quite exciting indeed. With the extra boost, will it hurt Q3 in the long term? How about led, is it overtaxing it?

I'm wondering the same thing.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ] 

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder how long you have to test it before you can feel confident that it's not gonna blowup? Maybe 4 to 6 times?
Freshly charged batteries can be dangerous, but after they rest for a while they settle down. That's why I would prefer to take mine out of the charger for several hours before I use them.


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## LightScene (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Billson said:*
higher capacity cells of the future


[/ QUOTE ]
The overcharge protection is in the battery, so they can't be overcharged. Any new cells will have the same voltage, so there doesn't seem to be anything to worry about.


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## SilverFox (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hello LightScene,

NiMh and NiCd cells will settle down after they come off the charger in a couple of hours. Li-Ion cells take weeks. 

I have some 18650's that I took off the charger at 4.2 volts last week. Just measured them and they are still at 4.2 volts.

Tom


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Gald to see you've been lurking this thread SilverFox. The rechargable is working great in the Q3 but I'm concerned it will fizzle fo' shizzle! Kevin told me it works on some of the lights they tested, can't remember which light but I bet it has a resistor or something to keep the lights on.


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## SilverFox (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hello CromagNet,

Yes, I tried a R123 in my Q3 and it worked fine.

Tom


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

oops... got a phone call, didn't realize I didn't finish my sentence.

... fizzle fo' shizzle in my Ombu X33 using TWO R123s.

So... I think I will need to do something to it like, resistor or some other kewl flashaholic thing so I can use the rechargables in the X33. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## chevrofreak (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*CromagNet said:*
KLM that's the good news /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chevrofreak: Did you end up giving that to your sister? I'm wondering if it will come down to the bin. Maybe one will handle the increase and a different one wont. 

My Q3 say SYOL on it. S Flux = 51.7 to 67.2 Lumens with 635 to 755mW --- YO = 0.292 to 0.307 tint cool white /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ---- L forward voltage Vf = 3.75 to 3.99V

So If I'm running the Q3 at 4.2 on this bin it should be overdriving it just a bit when battery is fresh. Is that correct? will it be ok? (I'd think it would be)I'm going to boil my X-33 (brb)

TX1K bin. The beam is white but with a bit of green/yellow compared to Q3.
So ... T Flux = 67.2 to 87.4 Lumens with 755 to 875mW Power
X1 tint but with Vf only 3.51 to 3.75V 

If running these rechargables in series creates 6.6v to 7.4v at 700mAh my poor little X-33 TX1K wont take the strain. 

I can't believe I just spewed this out! Wow... are those calculations correct? And what are the consequences?

What's the bin on your X-3 Chevro? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I havent sent it off yet, but soon. I tried to get the thing open, it wouldnt budge. Even have a few nice nicks in the body to prove it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

I tried to do a lowbeam runtime test last night. I started it at 7:35PM and it was still running at the same brightness at 1:40 when i fell asleep. Who knows what time it shut off between then and 8:30 when I woke up.....

I've used these batteries in my Pelican M6 LED as well, and its just a resistored LuxI setup. No difference at all in brightness from what I could see, but the light got quite warm, something a regular CR123 wont really do.


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## chevrofreak (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

BTW, I tested the draw with some fresh SF123's and it started off at over 900, but leveled out at 840ish after 30 seconds or so. I'll test the draw once this second battery finishes charging. I'm almost expecting it to be around 1200 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif

My beam is slightly pinkish purpleish, but its not not that bad. Comparing it to my PM6 LED its very noticeable though, as that light is pure white.


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Chev: If you mean open your Q3... I just boiled mine in a plastic bag for 5 minutes and then in twisted right open using a towel to hold it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Did I read that correct? 5+ hours of full-out runtime?!?


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## chevrofreak (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I didnt boil mine, but I ran it under some hot water directly out of the heater. I didnt want to risk damaging the light too much, since its going to my sister /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

The light was still going strong at 6 hours, but that was on lowbeam. When I tested highbeam right after I got the batteries it went 23 minutes. After this last battery charges up and I test the draw, I'll run it on high again and see if breaking the battery in a bit helped at all.

Remember though, these are the JSB-123 3 volt nominal batteries, rather than the 3.7's that peak at over 4 volts. There are bound to be some differences.


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## Billson (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*LightScene said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*Billson said:*
higher capacity cells of the future


[/ QUOTE ]
The overcharge protection is in the battery, so they can't be overcharged. Any new cells will have the same voltage, so there doesn't seem to be anything to worry about. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it verified that the cells are protected? What about the charger? Can it charge bare cells. The description on Battery Station's website is rather vague.


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## LightScene (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello LightScene,

NiMh and NiCd cells will settle down after they come off the charger in a couple of hours. Li-Ion cells take weeks. 

I have some 18650's that I took off the charger at 4.2 volts last week. Just measured them and they are still at 4.2 volts.

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for that warning. 
I have some on order.
I wonder how I could cool them off a little before putting them into the flashlight. I don't have anything else that uses 123s
It may well be that the "semi-regulation" (whatever it is) helps to prevent too much current from reaching the emitter.

Does anybody have particulars about the regulation?


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## nonbox (Jan 12, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Does any one have runtimes for the R123 & battery station recharger?



http://free.hostdepartment.com/n/nonbox00
__________________________________________________________________


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## chevrofreak (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Ok my tests are completed. JSB-123 batteries in the TM-301X-3 were being drained at 840ma (guess i need to learn more about electricity..) and had a runtime of 27 minutes 8 seconds (fan cooled).


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Billson: Verified by Kevin at Batterystation that cells are protected. Not sure about the 'bare cells on this charger' question. (Kevin is lurking though and he told me he'll post when he gets a chance.

Seems like runtime is short. I'll test mine again, but as I was walking the dog this evening the light just went black. no warning. Lucky I had five other lights with me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Tested with a fresh one when I got home and stuck the dead one back on the charger.


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## Nanook (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

My light just did the same thing tonight; it just went dark with no noticeable dimming before. I can't vouch for the runtime, but I have been playing with it an awful lot since Monday evening when the battery was first charged, including two 5 or so minute runs.


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## SilverFox (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hello Chevrofreak,

If we do a little math...

27 minutes is 0.45 hours, and multiplying that by your draw of 0.84 amps gives us a capacity of 0.378 Ah in this application.

The BatteryStation CR123's that are not rechargeable have a capacity close to 1.391 Ah at a 1.0 amp draw. So, about 3 cycles on the rechargeable cells would come close to the same run time on 1 primary cell, in this light.

CromagNet,

The protection circuit in these cells limits both the high end (over charge) and the low end (over discharge) voltage. The reason the light suddenly shuts off is because the protection circuit senses low battery voltage and shuts the system off.

Tom


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## LightHearted (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Does anyone know at what voltage these batteries cut off at? The lowest measurement I've been able to take on one of these cells is in the neighborhood of 2.8v.


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## SilverFox (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hello HLM,

I believe that is the target cut off value for Li-Ion cells.

Tom


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Ooh Kay! Got two more Lithium rechargables from BatteryStation and I charged them up to full and with much trepidation, put BOTH them into my 3watt Ombu. And it worked!! or should I say, it didn't blow.... yet. I haven't run it for more than 30 seconds yet. 

Here are the stats from the light meter

X33 --- 1000 LUX at 1-meter
X33-R - 1300 LUX at 1-meter

Applying the inverse square law, used by Quickbeam, shows the X33-R to have 14% more throw. 

X33 --- 31.62 meters throw
X33-R - 36.06 meters throw

Hopefully it will last. I'll do some runtime tests soon.


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## chevrofreak (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Did you test their voltage?


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## CroMAGnet (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

bummer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I was doing a runtime test on both lights and about 2 min into it the X33-R shut down. The head was hot and the tail was warm. I just tested the batts at about 3.6v and together 7.2v with no load. I'm not sure how to measure this under load. 

When I opened it up I found what looks like a resistor rattling around the board area under the LED. Didn't look burnt so maybe I can solder it back. 

Bummer, I was really hoping for that 1300 LUX in this dual stage light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Just finished runtime test on the Q3 which lasted for 45 minutes on rechargable LiON123R before sutting down abruptly. I was taking readings along the way and output only dropped about 75% when it shut down. Using regular lithium batteries my light would flicker once in a while when it was getting really low but now with rechargables. Bam! Lights out. The light was pretty warm after being on for about 10 minute but it was fine. Holding it helped disipate heat and was a great hand warmer. Kinda cold outside lately /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now I just need to make it a dual stage switch with a recessed tail. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## chevrofreak (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I tested both of my JSB-123's together at 7.8 volts /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

I just hope this thing doesnt decide to burn out right after I send it to my sister....


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

What Q3? what's the 7.8v for? I'd do some testing first if it's a two battery light.


----------



## chevrofreak (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

The light I've been talking about is the TM-301X-3, which is the same light as the Ombu X-33. 7.8 volts didnt kill it.


----------



## LightScene (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*chevrofreak said:*
The light I've been talking about is the TM-301X-3, which is the same light as the Ombu X-33. 7.8 volts didnt kill it. 

[/ QUOTE ]
People with lights like yours may not be following this thread. And people with Q3's aren't your target audience. It might be better to start a new thread.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I think the target here is Q3 rechagable lithium issues. Using two in a similar light such as this aka Q3s mother is a natural 'spill' over and ok by me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif However this deserves it's own thread to figure out the issue when using two lithium rechargables in one of these.


----------



## CESDewar (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I had originally tried using the rechargeable 123's from Zbattery.com which have the name Juice Rush Rechargeables. I tested two batteries in the Q3 and found that they discharge far too fast to be of much use. 
On a new charge: 3.8 volts, and after five minutes it had dropped to 3.53 volts, so still a nice bright light, but after another 10 minutes (15 minutes in all) the light had dimmed so much as to be unusable and registered only 1.35 volts when removed. Over the next ten minutes out of the flashlight, the voltage slowly crawled back to 2.96 volts but when put back in the flashlight, instantly dropped off.

I just received the PH-123A-A charger from Battery station and got vastly superior results with the one battery I tested. On initial charge, it registered 4.1 volts (but Q3 still seems ok with that) and after 5 minutes still showed 4.06 volts. After 11 more minutes (total of 16 minutes) it was still nice and bright and registering 3.78 volts, so it appears that unless I have two bad batteries, the Battery Station 123 rechargeables are significantly more powerful batteries than the Juice/Rush 123's. I am now much happier that my Q3 is going to retain this brightness level for so much longer - it is now my preferred EDC light and never fails to amaze me how well it throws!
BTW - has anyone tried two of the Battery Station 123's in the Nuwai 5w Luxeon (TM116X)? I'm a bit reluctant to crank that up to 8.2volts when it's only "supposed" to have 6v available...


----------



## Kevin Tan (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Li-ions are fully charged at 4.15V, at 3.8V its only 50%. Thats why u get the short runtime and big drop. In Q3, once the light starts to dim is the time to take out the li-ion and recharge. U will kill the li-ion very fast like in 20 charges if u keep discharging it to below 2.5v. I keep i1 in Q3 and 1 as spare. Gets at least 30 min of full bgrightness.


----------



## batterystation (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Sorry to be so late posting here. Year end, new software, inventory, trade show, bad weather, etc. 

The reason we opted to go with this battery was that the regulated versions were way less capacity and the regulators were popping or shorting at heavy loads. This resulted in a 3.6V nominal (4V) battery that was half the capacity of the non-regulated version.

Since most of these batteries were going to be used in heavy current applications, we decided to just carry the higher capacity non-regulated but protected version. Protected meaning just that. Short circuit protected. We clamped them in vices and attempted to explode them. When taken out of the vise, full voltage was restored. Not even any damage done to the battery by this test other than crushing the body of one.

So the voltage runs higher but so does the capacity at 700mAh. The charger is also a twin version where the original planned one was a single unit. No extra cost but a bit more useful. It will charge one or two at a time. When done blinking, they are done.


----------



## OZ (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!!*

Thanks for that info Kevin.
My Q-III is doing just fine with the rechargables I got on your site. I use it every day with guilt free lumens. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## CESDewar (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Kevin Tan said:*
Li-ions are fully charged at 4.15V, at 3.8V its only 50%. Thats why u get the short runtime and big drop. In Q3, once the light starts to dim is the time to take out the li-ion and recharge.

With both of the Juice/Rush batteries, I was never able to get them to charge up to more than 3.8v tops - even leaving them in overnight, removing/reinstalling - so that looks like as much charge as they capable of getting. The fact that the battery dropped so low and then crawled all the way back seems to me to indicate that the current draw off those batteries is just too high for them to accomodate....


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hello CESD,

Welcome to CPF.

I believe Jon Burly discovered the same problem when he offered those type of cells to us.

You will have to do a search on Rechargeable 123's to find more information.

I ended up modifying my charger so it would charge to 4.2 volts.

Tom


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Runtime update
5:18PM ------- 980 LUX at 1-meter, (throw 31m) battery approx. 3.7v 
15-minute mark 920 LUX (throw 30m)
30-minute mark 870 LUX (throw 29m) very hot to touch until held to allow for heat-to-hand transfer
45-minute mark 640 LUX (throw 25m) Battery died while taking measurement. Took out right away, battery felt warm and registered zero on the voltmeter. hmmm


----------



## FlaRe (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello CESD,

Welcome to CPF.

I believe Jon Burly discovered the same problem when he offered those type of cells to us.

You will have to do a search on Rechargeable 123's to find more information.

I ended up modifying my charger so it would charge to 4.2 volts.

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify, batteries charged to 4.2v can still be used on a QIII? It will not destroy the light?


----------



## FlaRe (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I just found that "Hallis" is using 4.2v on a QIII. It's time to step up my charger then!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=830432&page=2&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1


----------



## LightScene (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*CromagNet said:*
Runtime update
5:18PM ------- 980 LUX at 1-meter, (throw 31m) battery approx. 3.7v 
15-minute mark 920 LUX (throw 30m)
30-minute mark 870 LUX (throw 29m) very hot to touch until held to allow for heat-to-hand transfer
45-minute mark 640 LUX (throw 25m) Battery died while taking measurement. Took out right away, battery felt warm and registered zero on the voltmeter. hmmm 

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for these nice figures. They look really good, very encouraging. You're doing a great job of selling these R123s. The Batterystation.com should give you a perk.

It scares you when you measure 0 volts, until you realize what's going on. The batteries have a mechanism to prevent over-discharge. Once it kicks in, no electricity can flow. They aren't really dead, just protected - cool huh? My lithium camera batteries are like that too. 

I suspect it's probably best to recharge them as often as possible to extend the overall life of the battery. I know this strategy is best for NiMh. The only caveat is don't overcharge them. But these batts can't be overcharged, so they should last a long time.

I'm really looking forward to getting my R123s from the Batterystation.com


----------



## LowBat (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

So the BatteryStation R123's will run the QIII for 45 minutes, and a regular 123 will run the QIII for about three hours. Someone help with the regular 123 runtime stat as I just got my QIII last night.

I'm tempted to go rechargeable till I think of the cons. If I use my QIII for say 4 fours while camping at night I can expect to change the R123's out four times and be into the fifth R123. That would mean I'd need to possess 5 R123's or have the charger available with a place to power it. On the other hand if I was using regular 123's I'd only have one change-out, and the cost of that depleted 123 is only a buck if ordered from BatteryStation.com or BotachTactical.com. Seems to me a dollar for three hours is a great deal. I spend more for coffee at Starbucks without giving it a second thought.

Yes rechargeables are guilt free and after awhile you'll pass the point of breaking even over regulars, but think of all the change-outs needed or the number of rechargeables you'll need to carry if going on a long hike.

A question I have is how long will a R123 hold its charge? If left in the glove box for a month can I use it without having it die within minutes? That was the problem I had with the NiCad battery pack in my old stinger flashlight.


----------



## wasBlinded (Jan 15, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

You might get an hour and a half at nearly "full" brightness with regular CR123 cells, and depending on your unit another couple of hours of diminishing light.

I keep thinking I should get some R123s, but then regular CR123 cells are so cheap at $1 each, and last so long in intermittent use, that it doesn't make much sense for me. That doesn't mean I won't eventually get some, though....


----------



## wintermute (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

if you are going to go out camping, why not take a larger LuxIII light with C cells or D cells, you could leave it on all night if you wish...for 2 nights in a row.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hey Lowbat! Welcome to CPF. Since you spend more on your lattes than you do on 123 batteries. As do I. Why don't you do some runtime tests for us. Throw those batteries in your light, turn it on and time it for us /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Just give us an estimate of how bright it is after 45 minutes or an hour.

The thing I like about the R123 for my Q3 is that I dont use it for long stints anyway and I end up recharging it after 15 or 20 minutes of use for full brightness all over again. And remember... full brightness using the R is about 27% more if I remember my stats correctly from earlier in this thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## LowBat (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Well thanks for the warm welcome CromagNet. Incidentally I got my QIII from Gary at eliteled.com. I was going to order from him online until I saw he was in nearby Cupertino and he graciously allowed an in-person sale. I know my Loc says Oxnard, but I spend most of my time in San Jose.

Anyways back to the subject of rechargables. Yes I'd probably use a different light for hiking like a Gerber Tracer (on order) or carry my new Streamlight TaskLight 2L set on low power. As you can see I need to feed my flashlight addiction as much as the latte. Partly because I did the Half Dome trail all in one day in 2003 and didn't realize my out-of-shape body wouldn't be able to get down before dark. All I had in my waist pack was a $6 cheapie blue led, red laser combo button cell Target special that I had to hold the switch down for six hours. Getting off topic again.

As far as testing the QIII's use of non-rechargables I'll try and give you a rough estimate on my next hike. That won't be awhile as I wrecked my knee bowling last month and it's slow to heal. Don't get me wrong I may decide to get those R123's as Blinded mentioned. $6 each is a damn good price. I'm still wondering how long rechargable lithiums can sit before then need to be recharged.

P.S. to CromagNet. If you're still on for a February 5th Bay Area meet I would be interested (if I'm not back in Oxnard by then). Carpooling would be a plus too.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Kewl beans /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif stay in touch.


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hello LowBat,

I believe the self discharge rate for the R123's is about 1% of the remaining charge per month.

Tom


----------



## LightHearted (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Does anyone know how these Battery Station rechargeables do in cold weather? I would like to know if they are as resistent to low temps as disposable lithiums are.

After a couple charge cycles it seems like my battery life is getting better. I'm very happy with these now.

Thanks,
Ken


----------



## LowBat (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

That's more than an acceptable self discharge rate.


----------



## LightScene (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Just got my R123s today from batterystation. The Q3 is wicked with these things. This is a fantastic combination.


----------



## Streak (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Just got my R123 as well from a local importer.

Current draw on my Q3 has gone from between 750 and 850 with non rechargeables way up to over an Amp on the R123, this baby is now really bright.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Has anyone figured out if the BatteryStation _charger_ has any "smarts" in them? When the voltage gets to the proper level of approximately 4.2 volts is the charger brainy enough to know to shut off?

With three different types of 123A cell to use, unprotected, protected and regulated, it would be nice to know which charger is good enough to not ruin your cells.


----------



## Brooks (Jan 22, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Do these rechargeables have a shelf life like regular lithium batteries? Since non-rechargeables have a 10 year shelf life I was wondering if a rechargeable lithium would have a long shelf life as well once it is charged.


----------



## milkyspit (Jan 25, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Brooks, I'm no expert on this stuff, but I think Li-ion rechargeables like the R123 cells have a shelf life of something like 3 years whether they're used or not, after which their energy capacity starts to decrease significantly. They're also good for about 300 charge cycles... so they're basically spent after 3 years or so or 300 charge cycles, whichever comes first. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Given the number of regular 123 cells saved during that lifetime, though, they're still a good deal. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Penguin (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I just ordered R123's for my Q3 from Battery Station... Basicly the voltage boost will drive the LED harder will no ill effects, correct? From what I hear, there are no reported instances of the Q3 failing due to the R123's.. hope it stays that way /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hi Penguin!




Thanks for that Arc AAA. My buddy loves his new EDC.

I haven't had any probs with my Q3r and it is on its way back from 4sevens right now with a new modded dual stage recessed tailcap.


----------



## NoFair (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I'm waiting for a reply from Batterystation about using the charger with 230V 50Hz AC, which is normal here in Norway. If anyone has tried this and can tell me if it works i'll be really happy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I got my Battery Station charger and cell yesterday and tried it with the Q3. So far I haven't had any problems with the light and cells.


----------



## beam_me_up (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*haveblue said:*
I got my Battery Station charger and cell yesterday and tried it with the Q3. So far I haven't had any problems with the light and cells. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you notice much of a visible increase in brightness?


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Let me try it. I have the lux meter nearby. Answer in 10 minutes.


----------



## beam_me_up (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

well...i meant VISIBLE difference, not just what the light meter says /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif but do test it I would be interested to get some more verification on the boost they give. But i'm still interested as to how much brighter it appears vs regular 123


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

510 lux with a CR123A battery and 909 lux with a Battery Station rechargeable CR123A cell.

Yes, it looks brighter. If you were into cameras I'd say one stop brighter.


----------



## chevrofreak (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*NoFair said:*
I'm waiting for a reply from Batterystation about using the charger with 230V 50Hz AC, which is normal here in Norway. If anyone has tried this and can tell me if it works i'll be really happy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

The same charger is sold on Ebay for quite a bit more, and is marketed as being 230v 50hz compatible, but maybe it has a different power transformer than the Battery Station one.


----------



## jollytoker420 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I just got my Q3 in the mail today. I was impressed.
The tailcap switch has an extra, uesless click to it though...
I am waiting on my r123 setup from batterystation.... I kinda forgot to let them know my user name for CPF....

I can't wait to super-juice the sucker!!!!
I am already really happy with the brighness and tint. In case anybody cares... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I found one on sale for 36.99 @ eliteled.com Couldn't resist it!


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Gary at eliteLED has some good deals /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chev: Definately noticable brightness increase with the R


----------



## OZ (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

CromagNet's right, just enough brightness increase with the R to blind your non-flashaholic friends. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nana.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif


----------



## Penguin (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Cromagnet, I'm glad your buddy likes the AAA. Dual stage huh? we're flashaholics! FULL BRIGHTNESS EVERYTIME!!!!


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Q3-R low level runtime test using 4sevens dual stage switch (All LUX readings at 1-meter)
3:50pm 95 LUX
4:20pm 85 LUX
4:50pm 75 LUX similar ambient output to ARC AAA-P (21 LUX) which seems to have a wider center hotpsot which adds up in lumens
5:20pm 70 LUX 
5:50pm 65 LUX 
6:10pm 50 LUX tested on hi to measure 850 LUX still more than Q3 using regular CR123 new lithium battery at 660 LUX
6:15pm darkness on low and hi
Results: Approximately 2.5hrs of steadily decreasing light to 50% in low mode with abrupt darkness ending due to protected lithium rechargable battery.


----------



## LITEmania (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Anyone tried the Q-III mother's talcap switch on Q-III and load a R123 ?


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*eTendue said:*
Anyone tried the Q-III mother's talcap switch on Q-III and load a R123 ? 

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the so called Q3's mother and the tail switches are not interchangable as far as the electronics. The dual mode will not work in the Q3. At least from my Ombu X33. Maybe some others have different experiences with the Nuwai labeled couterpart.


----------



## CESDewar (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*beam_me_up said:*
well...i meant VISIBLE difference, not just what the light meter says /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

The difference is not just slightly noticeable - it is DRAMATICALLY noticeable. The rechargeables from Battery Station work wonders with the QIII (they also work wonders with my 5w Nuwai which now compares favorably with my 135 lumen-rated Pila GL3). If I was forced to guess, the QIII with the rechargeables must be cranking out a good 50+ lumens which for a light just 3.25" long is quite an accomplishment.
As far as I can see, it's a no-brainer to run this light with the rechargeables -- run-time is good and a dozen+ C123's will pay for the recharger - obviously if there is some detriment to the long-term reliability of the light we'll know about that later, but there's no particular reason to think there'll be a problem. It's a great combination at an excellent price point - I don't see any better EDC taking all things into consideration.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

ooh I am looking to get the 5w Nuwai next week. CSED -So you run two of the BS R123s in this light with no problem? Is the difference as dramatic as the Q3? Also do you notice any change it the tint with the extra power? I just happen to have the GL3 passaround here and was thinking that it will compare with my two cell 3w and/or the 5w next week.


----------



## beam_me_up (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*CESDewar said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*beam_me_up said:*
well...i meant VISIBLE difference, not just what the light meter says /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

The difference is not just slightly noticeable - it is DRAMATICALLY noticeable. The rechargeables from Battery Station work wonders with the QIII (they also work wonders with my 5w Nuwai which now compares favorably with my 135 lumen-rated Pila GL3). If I was forced to guess, the QIII with the rechargeables must be cranking out a good 50+ lumens which for a light just 3.25" long is quite an accomplishment.
As far as I can see, it's a no-brainer to run this light with the rechargeables -- run-time is good and a dozen+ C123's will pay for the recharger - obviously if there is some detriment to the long-term reliability of the light we'll know about that later, but there's no particular reason to think there'll be a problem. It's a great combination at an excellent price point - I don't see any better EDC taking all things into consideration. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a small correction, unless you've modified the Q3 body it is 3.6" long. I'll be waiting for my battery station lights patiently


----------



## CESDewar (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*CromagNet said:*
ooh I am looking to get the 5w Nuwai next week. CSED -So you run two of the BS R123s in this light with no problem? Is the difference as dramatic as the Q3? Also do you notice any change it the tint with the extra power?

I have seen no problem at all running the Battery Station rechargeables in my TM116X (5w Nuwaii). And yes, the difference is as dramatic as in the Qiii - a very substantial and instantly noticeable increase in brightness. I see no change in tint (subjectively at least - I have no way of measuring this objectively). For a light that weights 5oz. and is less than 5" long, it's very definitely top of the line performance and again at a very reasonable price (got mine from SureFireParts for $65.95).


----------



## CESDewar (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Just a small correction, unless you've modified the Q3 body it is 3.6" long.

Oops. Sorry about that - just a typo - I meant to say 3.65" long although that's not quite right either as in careful measuring it seems to be 3 5/8" from extended tip of pushbutton to most distant part of bezel which would work out to 3.625"


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

If you want bright and a decent run time with your Q3 use the Battery Station rechargeable CR123A cells. I did a lot of testing between the Burly and Battery Station cells yesterday. I need to experiment more before I come to any solid conclusions.

To test the cells I used the Q3 with the stock SY0J emitter. The light runs at 780mA.

In comparison to the Burly cell the Battery Station cell is 44% brighter and runs for 48 minutes before using up its stored power. The Burly cell has a run time of 27 minutes with less light output.

So the Battery Station cell is 44% brighter _and_ runs 77% longer. One of the reasons is because the Battery Station cell stores power at a higher 4.19 volts. The Burly cell is charged at a lower 4.0 volts. Those numbers are freshly charged cells. The Battery Station cell has 5 to 6% more voltage. The Battery Station cell stores more voltage _and_ more current and gives a longer run time to the Q3 light.

_But...._nope, I can't tell you yet. I'm still testing chargers and cells. Actually testing is all done and I'm crunching numbers and writing notes. The truth is here..._I think._

Use a Battery Station cell _and_ a battery station charger for the most “kick” to the Q3. But be careful since you are straining the light more. And watch out that you do not discharge the Battery Station cell too far. YMMV.


----------



## beam_me_up (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I should have my battery station charger in a few days...I had another charger I was using and I was only gettin 8 minutes runtime per battery! Yuck! Don't by that cheapee $6.99 charger on eBay is all I can say


----------



## SchaqFu (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hey guys, I feel like this has been answered here but I can't find proof so I'll ask it straight out: will the BatteryStation li-ion rechargable batteries automatically shut off to protect over-discharging, or is it possible to over-discharge them using the Q-III? I see SilverFox's earlier post indicating they will not overdischarge, but then I see some conflicting things later on, and this discussion is raging in the "HDS EDC 60 GT vs. Nuwai Q-III" thread. Thanks for answers!

-SchaqFu


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Haveblue & Schaqfu: The BS batteries are protected. No need to worry about over-discharging.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Testing the two RCR123A cells I am 100% sure the Burly cells are protected. The Burly cell correctly stop charging at the correct voltage. The cell acted correctly by instantly shutting down when the cell is discharged. The Battery Station cells I have do not act like this and kept on overcharging and discharging past the critical points. I'm be testing more later today.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

ooooh... I guess a voltmeter does lie... Billy, can you please post your process so that I can try to duplicate it?


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Testing the run time of the cells was done using a Nuwai Q3 light with an SY0J emitter. The light runs at 780mA. The light was put into a sealed box that is attached to a lux meter. The lux meter reads the light output into a multimeter and computer to graph the results. Each cell was fully charged and allowed to rest for one hour before they were tested.

I just started a second test with the Battery Station cell. Same set up and same light. It should take about 48 minutes to complete.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

The reason I am testing the BS cell again is the way it shut off. The Burly cell switched off when the there was no more power...just like a light switch. And it shut off before it reached the critical voltage discharge limit. That is good. That means protection to me. When recharging the switch closes and there is power again. Finally, the Burly cell stops charging when it senses the voltage charge stop point. I consider the Burly cell voltage protected.

The BS cell did not shut down and I physically watched the cell using the display on the DMM _slowly_ ramp down to zero power. It was not reading zero on the meter but the mA reading went to half mA power; the cut off point. The BS cell did _not_ switch off and continued to ramp downward. I haven't seen any voltage protection in the BS cell.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

hmmm... that is how you can tell the voltage protected cutoff point? How about the charge up point? (remember I'm inept at these things. All thumbs when trying to use my analog mutlimeter which BTW I found in the shed -blew off the dust) I'm still nervous about taking LUX readings over 1999 because I have to switch over to x10 sheesh.






BTW mine is SYOL bin.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Oh, there is a lot more.

The Burly cell did not disappoint me and did exactly what I expected the cell to do. The cell in the light had the least light output of the two cells at 644 lux but was very consistent. Its run time was 27 minutes that was far less than the Battery Station cell.

Because the circuit regulation of the Burly cell in restricting current to the light, the cell had lower light output and less run time. The Burly cell had only 58% of the light output and 56% minutes run time before reaching terminating 0.06 volts of the light output compared to the Battery Station cell. Yes, 0.06 volts when the Burly cell quit. Remember that this cell has electronics and is a smart cell. The cell knows when to terminate charging and discharging. That 0.06 volt number would initially scare you until you realize the cell protection circuit opened a circuit to prevent further discharge. I verified the circuit function by charging the Burly cell for one minute then testing the voltage of the cell with a multimeter. After one minute charge the cell read 3.15 volts. The circuit in the cell closed and now is useable. The protection circuit cut in and stopped the cell from exceeding critical discharge voltage.

Run time for the Battery Station cell was considerably brighter and longer. The cell light output is noticeably brighter and had a run time of 48 minutes or 77% more run time before the light output reached 50%. Notice I said 50% and not 0% like the Burly cell shut off point. The Battery Station cell continued to drop in voltage and no shut down circuit engaged. I tried the test with both Battery Station cells and the voltage drop off was gradual each time. It the graph is not obvious but I watched the display on the multimeter as the voltage gradually dropped below the critical 2.75 volts. The Battery Station cell did not switch off like a low voltage protected cell would. I do not see any indication the cell would switch off. If anyone would like to drain the cell completely and risk ruining the cell to see if it will switch off they are welcome to do it.

_That is a hint at how indepth I'm getting into testing the different cells. There is more but I'm not ready to show it yet. I'm still testing._ /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I finished the second cell test run with the BS cell and I'm happy to report that I was wrong. The BS cell _does_ have discharge voltage protection.

I was more daring on the second test and I drained the cell further until the voltage slope just dropped to zero. Yes, not even 0.06 volts the Burly cell had. I tested the BS cell with the DMM...zero volts. I hooked up the BS charger for one minute then took another voltage reading with the DMM. The cell then read 3.15 volts. _It is alive!_ When the voltage got too low on the BS cell the protection switched off the cell. When the cell sensed charge then the cell switched back on. _This is good!_

The BS cell at least has deep discharge protection! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

_I'm still testing._


----------



## wquiles (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I just got today my charger and batteries from Battery Station, and like others here, I can report that my QIII likes them a lot!

Voltage out of the charger from my cells were 4.18V, 4.19V, and 4.19V out of my Fluke 87 RMS Multimeter. 

To my untrained eye, my QIII looked a tad brigter.

My 1xcell Vital Gear with the KL4 heads works great with this cell as well /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Mike Painter (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Interesting.
One person says "The difference is not just slightly noticeable - it is DRAMATICALLY noticeable." and another says "To my untrained eye, my QIII looked a tad brigter."
Both are talking about the same battery and light.

Which is it?


----------



## Penguin (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

guess YMMV...


----------



## LightHearted (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Mike Painter said:*
Interesting.
One person says "The difference is not just slightly noticeable - it is DRAMATICALLY noticeable." and another says "To my untrained eye, my QIII looked a tad brigter."
Both are talking about the same battery and light.

Which is it? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Could it be that a difference in the Lux bin can affect brightness with R123s?

Ken


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 30, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Mike..._it could be both brighter and dramatically brighter!_

I'm really sure it depends on which battery or cell you put in the Q3. On my Q3 here are the lux numbers I get.

Duracell CR123A- 520 lux
Burly RCR123A- 644 lux
Battery Station RCR123A- a whopping 1018 lux

Well...whopping for my Q3 light. So if the Duracell battery is 100% output then the Burly cell is 24% and the Battery Station is an eye-popping 96% brighter.

So the light could be nice, a tad brighter or DRAMATICALLY noticeable.


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I start out at 1190 LUX at 1-meter and after 5 minutes ut stabalizes to about 1000


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

What kinda battery/cell are you using?


----------



## CroMAGnet (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Same one you are BStation... BTW Will you be coming to Hayward on Saturday nigt for the FA Get-together? I definately would like to pickup a MicroMag, pro'ly two...


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Yeah! The Battery Station RCR123A cells do have serious kick to them. On the charger it is nice to have two bays to charge from.

It would be a 50/50 chance to make the meeting. I'd have to drive through dreaded Tracy and Pleasanton (not pleasant at all.) I would guess the meeting is right off Industrial, right? By Frys electronics?


----------



## SchaqFu (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

My BatteryStation cells (just received a couple of days ago) are putting out very consistent runtimes of 40 minutes each. Almost to the second. I've never seen such consistency. Is that similar to what most people have been getting? I thought I remembered hearing more like 45 or 50 minutes.

Thanks,
-SchaqFu


----------



## Marc (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Thanks to this thread, I have ordered a Q3 and rechargeables from BatteryStation this weekend. I never thought that some day I'd jump in the CR123A bandwagon (too expensive around here).

Now let's hope I get a good bin.


----------



## TrueBlue (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*SchaqFu said:*
My BatteryStation cells (just received a couple of days ago) are putting out very consistent runtimes of 40 minutes each. Almost to the second. I've never seen such consistency. Is that similar to what most people have been getting? I thought I remembered hearing more like 45 or 50 minutes.

Thanks,
-SchaqFu 

[/ QUOTE ]

I've test both my Burly and Battery station cells twice and they are both consistent. Down to the minute consistent. This is how much time they ran in my Q3 until the cells switched off. I'm impressed with the cells.

Burly- 27 minutes
Battery Station- 48 minutes


----------



## Mike Painter (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I agree but my two quotes were from people using the same brand of battery from battery station (I just can't use BS for them)


----------



## Penguin (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

So... those of you with the Q3r's (BS cells) how does it compare to the SF L4?

-Josh


----------



## ob1 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Can the battery station batteries be "topped off"?


----------



## Robocop (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Ok I have read this thread through and I am certainly going to purchase a set of these from Battery Station.I feel my QIII will be perfect with this set up.I have noticed many here have received these from BatteryStation and I am curious about shipping times.I know this dealer has a fantastic reputation and I am just curious how long it took members here to receive this product....also is this item now a regular stock item and with good supplies on hand for order?
One more thing....on the CPF web page at BS when I try to order a set of these it sends me back to the regular order page.I see where it says to add your CPF name after the order and I am curious if this is how we receive the CPF prices?...is this correct?


----------



## Turt (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

On the section where you put the price... just put in the cpf price as you know it. I believe he figures out whether we are CPFers or not by the prices we put in for the items. Also good to put your CPF name somewhere on the order...


----------



## SilverFox (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Hello Ob1,

Yes.

In fact, you will get longer life from the batteries if you do.

Tom


----------



## ob1 (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

im sold /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## nerdgineer (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I came to this forum late, but...

Hats off to Haveblue for testing the BS battery to zero. There should be an annual award for most courageous (flashlight related) action by a CPF member, in which case Haveblue should get a nomination for 2005. 

And Ledmuseum, Flashlightreviews, and Roy should get lifetime achievement awards...


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*SilverFox said:*
Hello Ob1,

Yes.

In fact, you will get longer life from the batteries if you do.

Tom 

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom, I'll keep this brief so as not to hijack the thread, but regarding your comment on the longer life... I read something recently which stated that the number of cycles a Li-ion cell is rated for (300, 500, or whatever) refers to a FULL cycle... and that topping off counts as a fractional cycle, in proportion to how much capacity was topped-off. Example: if my cells are rated at 800mAh and I typically add 200mAh of charge with each topping-off, then FOUR top-offs would be considered ONE "cycle." Does that make any sense to you?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## CroMAGnet (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

SIlver and Milky: That sound great. I understand the logic.

I'd like to add a little bit more DiY simple mod to my thread that has developed over the weeks here. This will take the Q3R... Up a Notch!! 

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere yet, but PaulB showed me his Q3 in where he boiled the head to get at the reflector and replaced it with a 20mm reflector. All it needed was a slightly thicker O-ring and you can also add a UCL. The increase noticable. The beam gets a tighter hotter spot. When we measured the Q3R and the Q3R20 we found the R20 had about 200 more LUX to over 1300 LUX at 1m and the Lumens increased from 46 to 52 Lumens!!!


----------



## Penguin (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Cromag: where can I get this O-Ring for use with the UCL? And how does the new set-up compare to the SF L4? (the UCL is 22.6mm right?)


----------



## LightHearted (Feb 10, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Could someone provide a link to this reflector and lens you guys are talking about? I'd love to try this.

Thanks,
Ken


----------



## PaulB (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

The IMS 20mm reflector is available from a few different CPF members including The Sandwich Shoppe and Photonfanatic. The UCL lenses are from Flashlightlens.com. I think they were 22.6mm diameter and I used a knife sharpening stone to grind them down to fit. Only took a few minutes. Go slow or you will chip the edges. You can also order "custom" lenses that will fit as-is BUT I was told that Flashlightlens is relocating and will not be able to cut lenses "for a while". The o-ring is a 22mm O-ring(or inch eq.) from any hardware store. 

I just installed a R123 in my Q3 - wow this is a pocket rocket for real now !

I like it.


----------



## AW (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I did the same mod with a glass lens from the Sandwich Shoppe. The lens dropped right in with a very tight fit, no grinding required.


----------



## PaulB (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

One more note on lenses. There are different types of "glass" - some have AR(Anti Reflective coating) and some do not. The AR coated are more $, but they are SO clear you cannot tell there is a lens there at all. I think The Sandwich Shoppe has both types also. Highly recommended.


----------



## jchock (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*PaulB said:*
The UCL lenses are from Flashlightlens.com. I think they were 22.6mm diameter and I used a knife sharpening stone to grind them down to fit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why grinding? I bought the same 22.6mm UCL from FlashlightLens and I didn't have to do anything to make them fit. They dropped right in into both of my Q3s. I just cleaned the threads of the bezel with my Dremel (wire brush attachement) to remove residue, but the lens dropped right in. My calipers showed the head was something like 22.68mm in diameter inside the bezel so there was ample room for the UCL.


----------



## Marc (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Which bin is better to run off rechargeable? T??J or T??K ?


----------



## AW (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

K bin has a higher Vf and would take the higher voltage better from the 4.2V R123.


----------



## SchaqFu (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I want to mod my Q3 (already using R123 batteries) into the ultimate pocket rocket, including stuff like UCL, multiple stage switch, high bin luxeon, etc... but I'm really new to this stuff and have little idea where to begin and even less on how to follow through. I'm wondering if someone (or many people) would be interested in posting step by step instructions to creating the Ultimate Q3 hotrod. Like, seriously, everything you could possible do or add to a Q3 to just make it an unbelievable custom job. If I could just get my hands on an instruction manual for doing that, I'd spend time and money working on it.

Any takers? (Sorry if this stepped beyond the bounds of this thread).

-SchaqFu


----------



## Robocop (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I am preparing my order with Battery Station and noticed the site says the next round of shipping will be the week of the 14th of February. Does this mean that the dealer is out of stock until then or it is simply easier to ship most all orders at the same time. I would like to have an idea if this item is in stock before I order one...Can anyone tell me if they have ordered a rechargeable set recently and if so has it been shipped?


----------



## Marc (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Out of stock since about two weeks. Something to do with new US regulations with new stuff entering the country, must be xrayed etc... Still waiting for my kit, no big deal though; Q3 is plenty of fun even w/o rechargeable.


----------



## Robocop (Feb 19, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Any new words on these as of yet?...Has anyone received theirs lately?...I am waiting for these to be back in stock as I have an order waiting and I want to include a set of these and a charger.....The suspense is killing me and I am anxious to place my order. The last e-mail I sent to Battery Station was about a week past and he believed they should be shipping by the end of this week. I really cant tell from his site if they are in stock yet or not....I do know this guy stays very busy and I have no idea how he keeps up with all us flashaholics...Also the CPF special page is great to have. I have all kinds of goodies coming from this site as my g/f has also ordered me a Pelican M1 that will ship out when he receives them.....yes life is good..hehe


----------



## Robocop (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

How bout it guys???....any word on these chargers yet. I am still holding my order until I confirm these are in stock. I have sent Kevin a message however I wanted to ask here also. Has anyone ordered a charger and batteries lately?...are these in stock yet?


----------



## Turt (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I sent kevin an email about this a week ago. He said he was shipping them out... sounds like they are in stock.


----------



## Robocop (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Thanks Turt...I am going to go ahead and send my order in as I was waiting on these to arrive. Looks like my QIII will be much improved with a pair of these. I hope he has enough to fill back orders as well as new ones. I have about 15 co-workers who are also purchasing chargers as well as a few batteries.


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I like Batterystations R123 batteries but I haven't been able to get them to ship out anything to me in over a month. I tried to email him last week but not getting any responses. I ended up ordering from JSBurley and they shipped out the same day. His are now 4.2V also.

Jeff


----------



## Robocop (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Thanks for the information....I hate waiting however these have been a very popular item lately. I plan on keeping my order with Kevin for now however I will have to confirm they are in stock first....I have always had good luck with Kevin.


----------



## Joseph (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

How does this rcr123 do with KL4+e1e? Does it give more runtime?

BTW, is it possible to charge the battery station rcr with Pila charger? I think it's possibe using some kind of extender. How do you think?

Thank you.


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Joseph said:*
How does this rcr123 do with KL4+e1e? Does it give more runtime?


[/ QUOTE ]

It gives it more runtime IN REGULATION.

Jeff


----------



## Joseph (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Thank you Jeff.. 
I'm learning a lot from you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 
So was the reply you put on the other thread regarding the runtime of TW4 measured with BStation rcrs?
Do you think this batts are the best for TW4?

Thank you


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Yes. I tested them with Batterystations R123. JSBurley now has a similar battery with equal runtime and extra li-ion protection. Either of these batteries are the best choice for the TW4 combo.

Jeff


----------



## Joseph (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Would you please tell me which one that is? Is that the 3.0volt cell or 4.2 volt cell at the J.S Burley shop?

Joseph


----------



## Turt (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

you want the 4.2 volt set up joseph.


----------



## Joseph (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Thank you again, Turt! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif


----------



## Joseph (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*haveblue said:*

I've test both my Burly and Battery station cells twice and they are both consistent. Down to the minute consistent. This is how much time they ran in my Q3 until the cells switched off. I'm impressed with the cells.

Burly- 27 minutes
Battery Station- 48 minutes 

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got some further questions regarding these batts-

Jeff, you told me that Bstation and Jon's r123s will have same runtime, but for Q3 haveblue says Bstation batts runs much longer than Jon's r123s. Doesn't this matter to TW4?

Assuming Jon's r123 has more protection, do Bstation r123s have risks of getting overdischarged or overcharged? According to what others said in this thread, I think Bstation 123s is not dangerous at all. 

I'm still hesitating which one to get. Help me out here guys! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

Joseph


----------



## TrueBlue (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I see JSBurly has just started selling the higher voltage, 3.7-volt, RCR123A cells. Could that mean anything?

There is no image of what the cells look like but the cells could be similar to the BatteryStation cells.

NEWEST JSBURLYS CELLS.


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

JSBurleys new 4.2V batteries are suppose to be similar in performance to Batterystations. I tried to overdischarge my Batterystation R123. When it finally turned off, the battery measured 0.0V leading me to believe a circuit within shut the battery off preventing overdischarge. Popped it in the charger for a few seconds and it started registering 2.6V. Taking pictures now for you to see the two different batteries.

Jeff


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

JSBurley's R123 on the left, Batterystations on the right.







JSBurleys charger is 400ma and Batterstations is 250ma.


----------



## TrueBlue (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

On my BatteryStation charger I have a label on the back that says, "OUTPUT: 4.2Vd.c. 360mA."

Does anyone know if the charging circuit in the chargers are independent or parallel?


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I hope they're independent.


----------



## AW (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Independent channel charging circuits should have their own separate LED status lights to indicate whether it is charging, full or standby mode for each battery.


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Tell you what I'll do. I'll rundown one battery and leave one almost fully charged and throw them both in the charger. As long as either the battery is protected or the charger is 'smart', we should be ok. Batterystation says theirs is a smart charger. How smart? I don't know yet.

Jeff


----------



## chevrofreak (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*AW said:*
Independent channel charging circuits should have their own separate LED status lights to indicate whether it is charging, full or standby mode for each battery. 

[/ QUOTE ]

My Pila charger doesnt /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Probably doesnt really matter though.


----------



## Penguin (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I got my rechargables today. WOW!!!!!!!!!!! This thing is a scorcher now!!!!!! I'm thinking about putting in a new SO20 reflector, and a glass lens, how much more throw does the so20 provide versus the stock orange peel?

-Josh


----------



## AW (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

The 20mm reflector throws better with less side spill.


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

We'll I charge my batteries (one almost charged and one very discharged) and they both maxed out at 4.18V. I guess each of the Batterystations bays operate independently.

Jeff


----------



## modamag (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

The batterystation ones are wired in parallel.
With cutoff voltage at 4.2V.

Simple experiment
Try charging 2 depleted cell at one time.
Then try charing 1 depleted cell after another.
The total time is very very close /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Penguin (Mar 5, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Does anyone have lux numbers to compare the two reflectors?

-Josh


----------



## Penguin (Mar 6, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Or a distance estimate?


----------



## vontech (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Gotta have these batteries!! I don't even have my QIII yet, but all your hard work convinced me I should give them a try.

Thanks!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/goodjob.gif

Just ordered charger/batts from BatteryStation.


----------



## Grubbster (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I have tried to follow this post but I still have a question. I am getting a QIII with a TWOJ in it. Is one of the 4.2V R123 too much voltage for this? I don't want to trash it trying something I am not sure about.


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

It's safer if you had a Vf of 'K' but people with 'J' voltage lights have had good results running 4.2 rechargeables in them. I haven't heard of anyone blowing their TWOJ Q-III's. I'm sure the LED life is going to be reduced using R123's but so far, no one that I know of has reached that point.

Jeff


----------



## chevrofreak (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

I just put a TW0J in my Q3 and have it heatsinked like crazy, I was interested in what the output would be like on R123's but since mine arent here yet, I put a Pila 168S in and used a wire to complete the circuit. One word. *BRIGHT!!!!!*

I mean, holy freaking crap, I swear to God this thing may actually be brighter than my Surefire E2e.


----------



## Penguin (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Lets just wait for those new 3-watters that are coming out... a V or W binned LuxIII + 20mm IMS + R123... WOW!

I just put in a 20mm into my Q3-R this thing is a completely different animal from the stock Q3...


----------



## Joseph (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Penguin, did you put 20mm reflector without any mod?
How far does it throw comparing to KL1(if you have one)?

Thank you. 

Joseph


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## Former_Mag_User (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

You just twist open the head and take out the stock reflector. Then replace it with the 1MS 20mm reflector. I got mine from the Sandwich Shoppe.


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## NetMage (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

[ QUOTE ]
*CromagNet said:*
bummer /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I was doing a runtime test on both lights and about 2 min into it the X33-R shut down. The head was hot and the tail was warm. I just tested the batts at about 3.6v and together 7.2v with no load. I'm not sure how to measure this under load. 

When I opened it up I found what looks like a resistor rattling around the board area under the LED. Didn't look burnt so maybe I can solder it back. 

Bummer, I was really hoping for that 1300 LUX in this dual stage light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting - I just got the Nuwai model and had the same thing happen. Another post said Advance Mart said the X33 had different electronics, but it doesn't sound like it.

In mine the resistor just let go on one side, a couple minutes of high on 2 R123, and the light wasn't hot at all. I can resolder the resistor but am not sure how to prevent it from overheating and releasing again.


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## milkyspit (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

NetMage, I'm just taking a wild guess here, but if the light doesn't feel warm, that might actually be a BAD sign! It might mean the heat isn't making its way to the outer skin of the light, but rather is getting trapped inside. The circuit board in the Q3 has NO heatsinking whatsoever... just sits in a little air filled cavity between the battery and the LuxIII! If that poor little circuit were thrashed by too much current flow or something similar, it's entirely possible that a weak solder joint might come loose, and suddenly you've lost a component off the board. Not good! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

This is one reason I've always been nervous about running a stock Q3 using a R123 (Li-ion) cell... I'd MUCH rather see folks remove the circuit completely, and run in direct drive with an R123. I think the R123 puts too much stress on the stock circuit, and even if most lights seem to take the abuse for a while, IMHO they're ALL going to break well before they might otherwise be expected to. Just my couple cents on the matter. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## NetMage (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Sorry I wasn't too clear /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

My Q3 heats up fairly well on R123 and is brighter / bluer than my SX1L Q3 on R123. OTOH, it was the 2 X 123 'mother' that didn't heat up until it popped the resistor loose.

I think it needs some heat sink redesign to tackle more power.


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## vontech (Mar 24, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

.


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## saber (Mar 25, 2005)

*Re: Q3 Rechargable!! (BIG Update)*

Has anyone used the "Nano" charger and the batteries being sold with them in their Q3?


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