# 900-Lumen P7 5-Mode at DX



## BMF (Apr 6, 2008)

I saw this new one at DX for $44.52: 900 lumens, wow!


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## Supernam (Apr 6, 2008)

Wow, fast!

If it's running at a full 2.8 on high mode, that thing is going to get HOT very quickly. I ran a P7 direct drive sitting on top of a DHS heatsink and was unable to hold it after about 20 seconds. 

That strobe would be quite interesting though. 

Needless to say, $44 is pretty darn cheap. That's a $15 dollar flashlight plus $30 emitter.


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## amv12 (Apr 6, 2008)

wow already sold out in about an hour. Who knows if that's really a C bin.:shrug: Can't wait for a review to see if heat is going to be a problem.


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## kavvika (Apr 6, 2008)

I'll admit, I'm surprised at how quick DX produced this. Sooo...Fenix can't be much far behind, right?:twothumbs

I think I'll stick to my Maglite hosts, wait for a nice CSVOH emitter, and make my own for just a little more.


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## Trashman (Apr 6, 2008)

Dude....I missed it. Bogus. I've got to see one of these babies in action (P7). I just subscribed to the product updates, so I'll [hopefully] know when they're back in stock.


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## johnny13oi (Apr 6, 2008)

Hi, I have been away from this flashlight business for a while now and this new P7 emitter seems very interesting. Would you rather get this P7 light or one of those quad cree flashlights for around the same price on DX. School has started to catch up really quick and have been trying to save up money to build a new computer as well.


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## jake25 (Apr 6, 2008)

how can they do it on one 18650 i thought it needed like 8volts


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## 2xTrinity (Apr 6, 2008)

johnny13oi said:


> Hi, I have been away from this flashlight business for a while now and this new P7 emitter seems very interesting. Would you rather get this P7 light or one of those quad cree flashlights for around the same price on DX. School has started to catch up really quick and have been trying to save up money to build a new computer as well.


I want to Kai or DX come up with a quad Q7, 2s2p, driven by 2x LiIon C or D Cells. No drivers or anything, just fill a heavily-finned head with a solid chunk of copper, and solder the LEDs directly to it.

I'd like to see someone do that with a maglite:

>3000 lumens for >35mins runtime with 2 AW C-Cells 

In a few years, that sort of ouput, but in a better color temp/color rendition, should be possible with a single emitter  Not to mention that unlike HID or Incan, the LED offers the possibility of infinite dimming with increasing efficiency. I'd love to have a light that was 3000 lumens for 30 minutes, or 1/3rd lumen for 6 months, depending on the setting


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## Gladius01 (Apr 6, 2008)

I hope there the new stocks arrive soon. I want one, try to compair it with Barbolight.


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## RustyKnee (Apr 6, 2008)

jake25 said:


> how can they do it on one 18650 i thought it needed like 8volts


 
Nah the P7 is four p4 dies in parallel so has the same Vf as P4....which is about 3.6V

Stu


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## jake25 (Apr 6, 2008)

oh maybe that was amps


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## TorchBoy (Apr 6, 2008)

Supernam said:


> Needless to say, $44 is pretty darn cheap. That's a $15 dollar flashlight plus $30 emitter.


Apparently a $28 emitter from KD. (And a claimed C bin, at that.)


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## phreeflow (Apr 6, 2008)

Dude...how'd I miss this light!??! 
I can't believe it sold out already :ironic:


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## Trashman (Apr 6, 2008)

RustyKnee said:


> Nah the P7 is four p4 dies in parallel so has the same Vf as P4....which is about 3.6V
> 
> Stu




So, what kind of run time are we talking? 10 - 15 minutes?


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## jirik_cz (Apr 6, 2008)

I don't know what kind of electronics (if any) did MTE use, but I get 40-45 minutes runtime with mine P7 direct driven from 18650 battery.


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## Pokerstud (Apr 6, 2008)

Will this run on (2) cr123 primaries, or will 6V smoke it?


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## kramer5150 (Apr 6, 2008)

Did anyone here place an order?


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## Flash007 (Apr 6, 2008)

Pokerstud said:


> Will this run on (2) cr123 primaries, or will 6V smoke it?


 

I don't think this flashlight is compatible with 2x cr123 cells.

Also, 2,8A is too much for 2x cr123's or 2x RCR123's.

I am sure we can only use it safe with 18650 cell.

For me, the best configuration is a flashlight wich accept 2x 18650 protected cells.
Runtime will be longer, and not much longer (~20cm length for a flashlight with 2x 18650 cells).


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## BUZ (Apr 6, 2008)

Must get one!


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## ambientmind (Apr 6, 2008)

kramer5150 said:


> Did anyone here place an order?


i did, just in time i guess! i'll let you guys know what i think of it once i get it.


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## Nitroz (Apr 6, 2008)

ambientmind said:


> i did, just in time i guess! i'll let you guys know what i think of it once i get it.


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## Ziva2006 (Apr 6, 2008)

ambientmind said:


> i did, just in time i guess! i'll let you guys know what i think of it once i get it.


 
I guess we have to wait.


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## Empyfree (Apr 6, 2008)

Bizarre that they've shown it alongside two 123 sized cells rather thatn the 18650 it states in the blurb. I'm waiting for a review from a CPF'er before splashing out on one of these!


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## jake25 (Apr 6, 2008)

i wonder what would happen if one could get an aspheric on a P7 oo:


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## TorchBoy (Apr 6, 2008)

jake25 said:


> i wonder what would happen if one could get an aspheric on a P7 oo:


You'd get a projection of the four dice. :ironic:


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## jake25 (Apr 6, 2008)

TorchBoy said:


> You'd get a projection of the four dice. :ironic:


thanks...


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## BMF (Apr 6, 2008)

I should've ordered it first and then post. I got distracted after posting and when I came back later last night to find out it's OOS :mecry::whoopin:


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## FlashKat (Apr 6, 2008)

The only issue I have is that they are using the same body style as when it had a SSC P4, and the SSC P4 was having thermal issues.


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## Russianesq (Apr 6, 2008)

*900 Lumen light .... hum ...... lets see a review* :thinking:


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## forrest (Apr 6, 2008)

I've been waiting for something like this to come out.I have to ask, why would they not make it to use 2 18650`s like the rom. t5, (which I have and enjoy!) needing this much power it would make sense , wouldn't it? Also I wonder what kind of throw it would have with a smooth and long cup reflector.


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## kwarwick (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: 900-Lumen P7 5-Mode at DX - More Stock!*

Just got an email saying they have more stock available. Order one!


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## jake25 (Apr 6, 2008)

i dont wanna get this and have it a 50$ disapointment


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## KRS1 (Apr 6, 2008)

Yeh i ordered 1 too.


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## jake25 (Apr 6, 2008)

something interesting, at 143mm its a pretty long 18650 light

hopefully for heatsinking


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## jake25 (Apr 6, 2008)

something interesting, at 143mm its a pretty long 18650 light

hopefully for heatsinking


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## olrac (Apr 6, 2008)

I pulled the trigger on it too.:twothumbs:mecry::twothumbs:mecry::thinking:
That'll do pig, that'll do


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## Tarlach (Apr 6, 2008)

For <$50 how could you not try one


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## LEDninja (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks kwarwick.
Have to buy batteries and charger as well. Thats $75.

jake25
neoseikan is designing one with 3x18650.
Elektrolumens is selling one with 3xD.
Now that is looong.


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## Photon_Whisperer (Apr 6, 2008)

damn, just when I thought I was finished buying lights for a while


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## ThatGuyBri (Apr 6, 2008)

Won't the "plastic textured reflector" melt?


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## greenstuffs (Apr 6, 2008)

Almost pulled the trigger on this one, i'll wait for someone to post a review and decide whether to get it $45 is still a lot of money to throw to the garbage.


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## BMF (Apr 7, 2008)

I just ordered one, thanks for the update. I just want to see how bright the 900 lumens perform in a pretty small size. To have about the same brightness I think we need a Mag with Quad drop-in from Malkoff at 1000 lumens. I'll try not to leave it on too long because of the plastic reflector: I need only a couple of minutes at a time to "show off".


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## Citivolus (Apr 7, 2008)

Currently showing as back in stock...


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## BUZ (Apr 7, 2008)

I just bought one, what the best cell to use, (AW's protected 18650)???


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## nick__45 (Apr 7, 2008)

i need some education here. what's 18650 battery? it looks like AA when i google-image it. it seems to be around 40 bucks per one, is it super battery that i don't know about?

also, how bright is 900 lumens? is it 10+ times brighter than a surefire g2l rated at 80 lumens? i've been looking to get a light capable to blinding a person for 1 minute so i can get away as my city i work at doesn't allow handgun ownership for self defense.


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## PayBack (Apr 7, 2008)

The last picture on the site make it look all flood to me.


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## BUZ (Apr 7, 2008)

nick__45 said:


> i need some education here. what's 18650 battery? it looks like AA when i google-image it. it seems to be around 40 bucks per one, is it super battery that i don't know about?
> 
> also, how bright is 900 lumens? is it 10+ times brighter than a surefire g2l rated at 80 lumens? i've been looking to get a light capable to blinding a person for 1 minute so i can get away as my city i work at doesn't allow handgun ownership for self defense.




http://www.flashlightreviews.com/qa/batteries.htm

http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/batteries_explained.htm

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=173892

900 I really doubt it probably more like 500 if were lucky but hey at that price as long as it works I'll be a happy camper! Get a can of fox labs 5.3 or sabre red pepper spray!


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## moveingfaster (Apr 7, 2008)

Just placed an order for one.. Well see how it turns out!:thumbsup:


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## LEDninja (Apr 7, 2008)

Looks like MTE took the body of MTE 5-Mode SSC 42180 Flashlight (18650), swapped in the new LED, reflector, and changed the modes from hi>mid>lo>strobe>SOS to lo>mid>hi>strobe>SOS.

I don't like the P4 LED only runs 1:15. The P7 LED could be over stressing the battery.


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## Trashman (Apr 7, 2008)

BUZ said:


> 900 I really doubt it probably more like 500 if were lucky but hey at that price as long as it works I'll be a happy camper!



To think we're actually willing to settle for "only" 500 lumens from a single cell LED light, and that light costs less than $45 bucks. Crazy! Things are really progressing these days! It's just incredible. A few years ago, this type of thing was unthinkable, and it's already here. Wow. Where will we be in a couple of years from now?


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## GilmoreD (Apr 7, 2008)

Trigger Pulled as well.


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## ispayboy (Apr 7, 2008)

Me too, luckily placed an order before it ran out again....... now the waiting starts....


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## astrotec (Apr 7, 2008)

just checked DX's site and it looks like there are more... humm review first then spend :naughty:

a.t.


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## neoseikan (Apr 7, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> Thanks kwarwick.
> Have to buy batteries and charger as well. Thats $75.
> 
> jake25
> ...




We also have the problem: could the user get 18650 batteries easily?
In China, Li-on batteries are forbidden from air shipping now.
I think Japanese users could buy Sanyo or Panasonic 18650 from Yahoo Auc.


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## KRS1 (Apr 7, 2008)

neoseikan said:


> We also have the problem: could the user get 18650 batteries easily?
> In China, Li-on batteries are forbidden from air shipping now.
> I think Japanese users could buy Sanyo or Panasonic 18650 from Yahoo Auc.



i got plenty of 18650, which i ordered from DX


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## pbs357 (Apr 7, 2008)

I've bought plenty of Li-Ions from DX as well, unless this law is very recent? 

Saw the update last night and ordered my first P7 too. My only wish is that it had the HI-MED-LOW sequence. Chances are if I need the P7 it'll be for lots of light, and starting in LOW makes more sense for an EDC - so as to not disturb others or hurt your night vision etc.


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## nutz_about_lights (Apr 7, 2008)

pbs357 said:


> I've bought plenty of Li-Ions from DX as well, unless this law is very recent?
> 
> Saw the update last night and ordered my first P7 too. My only wish is that it had the HI-MED-LOW sequence. Chances are if I need the P7 it'll be for lots of light, and starting in LOW makes more sense for an EDC - so as to not disturb others or hurt your night vision etc.


 
Well hopefully we can find an option to change the sequence. Might have to look at new tailcap circuits. The clickie thingy..


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## neoseikan (Apr 7, 2008)

pbs357 said:


> I've bought plenty of Li-Ions from DX as well, unless this law is very recent?
> 
> Saw the update last night and ordered my first P7 too. My only wish is that it had the HI-MED-LOW sequence. Chances are if I need the P7 it'll be for lots of light, and starting in LOW makes more sense for an EDC - so as to not disturb others or hurt your night vision etc.



I think Li-ions may be sent to U.S. first via sea.
Or DX used some EMS Agents which will not check the package, that's the main way clone products leave China.


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## uluapoundr (Apr 7, 2008)

Bought my first Cree Q2 light a month ago, then a Q5 a few days later, a 4 cree light a couple weeks later, and just placed my order for the P7. Somebody stop me. BTW, my first post here.


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## Yapo (Apr 7, 2008)

I cant wait till these appear in single cr123 sized light...would be awesome if thats possible and also 300+Lumens on max to top it off!!! but i guess it wouldnt leave much room for a reflector. And i was thinking of upgrading my Fenix P1D CE...maybe i'll wait awhile longer...if i can

oh n :welcome:uluapoundr although it seems like you've been hanging around long enough to keep your wallet open


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## Jarl (Apr 7, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> Thanks kwarwick.
> Have to buy batteries and charger as well. Thats $75.
> 
> jake25
> ...



Neoseikan's is with the 18650's next to each other, not lengthwise.


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## Alan (Apr 7, 2008)

Jarl said:


> Neoseikan's is with the 18650's next to each other, not lengthwise.



Any link to this tri-18650 p7 light from Neoseikan?

Alan


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## neoseikan (Apr 7, 2008)

It's not available yet.
But soon. We are working on the reflector.
You could see the UI video on my signature.



Alan said:


> Any link to this tri-18650 p7 light from Neoseikan?
> 
> Alan


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## martonic (Apr 7, 2008)

Alan said:


> Any link to this tri-18650 p7 light from Neoseikan?
> 
> Alan


 
LEGION II: A 3*18650 SSC P7 light with advanced UI [Plan]


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## LEDninja (Apr 7, 2008)

I did some guesstimates overnight.

The battery in the SSC P4 version of the light lasted 1:15 on high. Which means a 4 die P7 will run ~20 minutes on high. That is 3C more than the recommended 2C max for Li-on batteries. I guess the high should only be used in burst mode.
Please note 670 lumens is at 3.6V 2.8A. At 4.15V 4A the lumen # is more like ~830 LED lumens. Which is ~540 torch lumens.

Assuming the low is 20% and medium is 40% like the previous (SSC P4) torch.
Low is 0.8A or 0.2A per die. ~225 LED lumens, ~150 torch lumens. ~45 minutes.
Medium is 1.6A or 0.4A per die. ~450 LED lumens, ~300 torch lumens. ~90 minutes.


Many US online battery vendors will ship UPS ground or USPS 3rd class (surface) parcel post.


neoseikan said:


> We also have the problem: could the user get 18650 batteries easily?
> In China, Li-on batteries are forbidden from air shipping now.
> I think Japanese users could buy Sanyo or Panasonic 18650 from Yahoo Auc.


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## jirik_cz (Apr 7, 2008)

I think that it is too early to guesstimate runtime of this light, because we know nothing about its electronic.


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## LEDninja (Apr 7, 2008)

Guesstimate is something to keep me busy while waiting.

I am making a couple of assumptions:
1) At max the torch is direct driven. This is most likely as it is a 1x18650 torch. (A torch like neoseikan's 3x18650 P7 needs a buck driver and I would not be able to guess what levels the designer set.) In the past 1 Cree die direct driven pulls around 1A +-10%. 4 Cree dies pull around 4A +-10%. Unfortunately Ultrafire has terrible mAH ratings (their 500mAH 10440 are really 300mAH) so I tried a different approach. The MTE 1xSSC_P4 1x18650 torch runs 1:15 or 75 minutes. The 4 die P7 will pull roughly 4x the amps and runtime is 1/4 or just under 20 minutes.
2) The far east flashlight manufacturers do not like to redesign their electronics. So I am assuming the mid and low are 40% and 20% like before. So the runtime becomes under 50 minutes and under 100 minutes.
3) The low price and speed which this torch was introduced seem to indicate the simplest control circuit possible. PWM without boost or buck circuits.

Of course if I am designing the torch for myself I would go 5% > 20% > 60% > strobe > SOS. The max of 60% would keep both the LED and battery within safe limits. But the competition's torch would be 66% brighter and I would sell nothing. So I max out the high at 100% (18650 direct driving the P7).


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## BUZ (Apr 7, 2008)

Need some opinions, would I be better off running a wolf-eyes LRB-168A or one of AW's protected 18650's?


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## mighty82 (Apr 7, 2008)

The trustfire 18650's have excellent capacity. The 2400mah batts have been tested against aw's 18650's here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/188515

As you can see they beat aw's batteries at all tested current loads. I know the 10440's rcr123a's don't stand up to their claim, but the 18650's really does. 2 for 10$.


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## phantom23 (Apr 7, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> Guesstimate is something to keep me busy while waiting.
> 
> I am making a couple of assumptions:
> 1) At max the torch is direct driven. This is most likely as it is a 1x18650 torch. (A torch like neoseikan's 3x18650 P7 needs a buck driver and I would not be able to guess what levels the designer set.) In the past 1 Cree die direct driven pulls around 1A +-10%. 4 Cree dies pull around 4A +-10%. Unfortunately Ultrafire has terrible mAH ratings (their 500mAH 10440 are really 300mAH) so I tried a different approach. The MTE 1xSSC_P4 1x18650 torch runs 1:15 or 75 minutes. The 4 die P7 will pull roughly 4x the amps and runtime is 1/4 or just under 20 minutes.
> ...





LEDninja said:


> The battery in the SSC P4 version of the light lasted 1:15 on high. Which means a 4 die P7 will run ~20 minutes on high. That is 3C more than the recommended 2C max for Li-on batteries. I guess the high should only be used in burst mode.


 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/193914

Direct driven (no resistor) P7 pulls from single 18650 about 2,5-2,8A, not more. Runtime - 45 minutes. 
3C is a misuse.
Ultrafire overrates thier batteries but real capacity of grey 18650 is about 2200mAh. 
By the way, grey Trustfire 18650 (2400 rated mAh) has real capacity about 2,3-2,4Ah while AWs 18650 only 1,9-2,0Ah.


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## BUZ (Apr 7, 2008)

phantom23 said:


> Ultrafire overrates thier batteries but real capacity of grey 18650 is about 2200mAh.
> By the way, grey Trustfire 18650 (2400 rated mAh) has real capacity about 2,3-2,4Ah while AWs 18650 only 1,9-2,0Ah.





Have any idea what the wolf-eyes LRB-168A are rated at?


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## jake25 (Apr 7, 2008)

BUZ said:


> Have any idea what the wolf-eyes LRB-168A are rated at?


LRB and AW are both extremely good choices for 18650

if i had the choice i would go w/ the LRB from wolf eyes just becuase of recognition. from their ability to function, some say the LRB is a bit ahead of the AW but probably not by much.


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## BUZ (Apr 7, 2008)

jake25 said:


> LRB and AW are both extremely good choices for 18650
> 
> if i had the choice i would go w/ the LRB from wolf eyes just becuase of recognition. from their ability to function, some say the LRB is a bit ahead of the AW but probably not by much.



Wonder how the LRB compares to the grey trustfire 18650's (have never used em').


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## RustyKnee (Apr 7, 2008)

ThatGuyBri said:


> Won't the "plastic textured reflector" melt?


 
It's not an Incan....so hopefully not.

I have ordered one.....cheap enough to take a punt on it.

Stu


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## precisionworks (Apr 7, 2008)

> Glass lens with plastic textured reflector



I love the smell of melting plastic in the morning


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## Gladius01 (Apr 7, 2008)

I just ordered one, can not wait to test it against Barbolight U-15 with 800 lumens output.

If this MTE SSC P7 900-Lumen flashlight is really 900lumens. Lets see. Can't wait for this to arrive.


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## Northern Lights (Apr 7, 2008)

Rats again. I just got the 4x cree romisen from DX today.
DX has the MTE 900 back in stock I just ordered one because I contacted MTE and they sent this:
"Thank you for your email. The bin is CSWOJ." 
That is the 900 lumen bin.

I guess I will do a beam shot shoot out. 
5761 at 7.3Vbulb
5761 at 6.9 Vbulb
romisen
MTE 900 lumen
and from that one will become my partner for everyday use.

Plasmaman has been using some P7 stuff and they have more light output than his 5761. 

Unfortunately there is enough variations of P7 and 5761s out there, it is hard to digest that statement.


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## jrdhmmr (Apr 7, 2008)

It took every ounce of willpower in my being to resist purchasing one the first time around, and then again when they said they had more in stock after being sold out.

As much as I want this light, I decided to wait to find out if its really "this light" that I want it to be. Now hopefully it will turn out to be, and hopefully when everyone posts their outstanding reviews of it there will still be a bunch in stock so I can order about 10 of them... though I'd be happy with 1. It should have more than one 18650 though, for runtimes sake.

Also, in DX's photo's, it does show two 16340's with the light.... an error?

On another note, since the P7 is 4 P4's, as I'm to understand, crammed into one, its not really a big technological advancement is it?, other than saving space? I mean, relatively speaking, four P4's would be equal right? Or is there something I'm not quite getting? Does it do the same with less power input to the emitter, because it doesn't seem that way to me...?


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## TorchBoy (Apr 7, 2008)

jrdhmmr said:


> On another note, since the P7 is 4 P4's, as I'm to understand, crammed into one, its not really a big technological advancement is it?, other than saving space? I mean, relatively speaking, four P4's would be equal right?


Same dice, AFAIK. Yes, you get a big space saving, but you could drive four P4s at an amp each.


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## WadeF (Apr 7, 2008)

I couldn't resist, I had to try it. If this thing really runs the P7 at around 900 emitter lumens and get get say 700 lumens, at least, out the front, I'll be impressed. Hopefully it will be at least 400-500 lumens out the front. We'll see.

Hopeing to see Malkoff get some premium P7's and make a 2-4D Mag Drop in and drive it hard.


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## pbs357 (Apr 7, 2008)

Definitely couldn't resist. In this form, a monster head with 4 reflectors would make for more flood but not as much throw. I can't wait!


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## martonic (Apr 7, 2008)

Could not resist at under $45 delivered. The claimed C-bin, multi-levels and rather small size are enticing. Hope this meets our expectations! :naughty:


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## zztinker (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm new to this forum and to flashlights I guess. After reading this forum I ordered the DealExtreme MTE SSC P7 900-Lumen 5-Mode Super LED Flashlight and a DealExtreme MX Power 3-Cree. My first led flashlight was a Lowes cree taskforce. That blew me away with it's throw. Anyway my wife is starting to look at me a little funny every time I get or order a new light. I told her I just have a uncontrollable urge for more lights. She says's as long as your urge is for flashlights and not Bar lights it's fine with her..........


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## BUZ (Apr 7, 2008)

zztinker said:


> I'm new to this forum and to flashlights I guess. After reading this forum I ordered the DealExtreme MTE SSC P7 900-Lumen 5-Mode Super LED Flashlight and a DealExtreme MX Power 3-Cree. My first led flashlight was a Lowes cree taskforce. That blew me away with it's throw. Anyway my wife is starting to look at me a little funny every time I get or order a new light. I told her I just have a uncontrollable urge for more lights. She says's as long as your urge is for flashlights and not Bar lights it's fine with her..........




LOL!


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## pbs357 (Apr 7, 2008)

zztinker said:


> I'm new to this forum and to flashlights I guess. After reading this forum I ordered the DealExtreme MTE SSC P7 900-Lumen 5-Mode Super LED Flashlight and a DealExtreme MX Power 3-Cree. My first led flashlight was a Lowes cree taskforce. That blew me away with it's throw. Anyway my wife is starting to look at me a little funny every time I get or order a new light. I told her I just have a uncontrollable urge for more lights. She says's as long as your urge is for flashlights and not Bar lights it's fine with her..........


 
LOL! The Taskforce is a great utility light, but this P7 should blow it out of the water. Funny thing, I find myself skipping some bar trips based on what lights I want to buy! One bar trip could be anything from a 6p to a Novatac! :green:


Oh, and :welcome:


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## BMF (Apr 7, 2008)

I don't think anyone got this on their hands yet but there are 8 votes already for total only 3 stars: they voted because of plastic reflector? As someone posted it's not an incan so it might be OK. Just wonder why people voted before they actually use it???


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## forrest (Apr 7, 2008)

As I said in an earlier post, what would this light be like with a smooth long cone reflector, like massive throw? unlike the the 4 cree t5 ( because of it`s reflector mandate, 4 led,s) you could easily make this throw much more, right?


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## 2xTrinity (Apr 7, 2008)

forrest said:


> As I said in an earlier post, what would this light be like with a smooth long cone reflector, like massive throw? unlike the the 4 cree t5 ( because of it`s reflector mandate, 4 led,s) you could easily make this throw much more, right?


SSC emit light closer to 180 degrees, while Crees emit more like 130 degrees -- so right there, you can capture a lot more like with the P7 than with 4 Crees. Add to that the fact that most multi-cree builds use small, shallow reflectors, as opposed to a single big reflector, and you can be even better off still. True, the 4 dice are bigger, which hurts throw, but that's more than made up for by the fact that you have a full sized reflector.


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## fxstsb (Apr 7, 2008)

BMF said:


> I saw this new one at DX for $44.52: 900 lumens, wow!



Doesn't make sense: Plastic textured reflector, 1 18650? Now really.


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## IMSabbel (Apr 7, 2008)

This thing will be emitting less than 5W of radiation energy, even in the most extreme possible case.
Even painted black the plastic reflector wouldnt melt, not by a long shot.

Also, a 6 of those cells have no problem lighting my 17" screen, driving the dual core processor, and the mobile gefore in my notebook. For hours.
So one of them wont have that much of a problem to provide less than 20W of nice, constant load to a led.


----------



## fxstsb (Apr 7, 2008)

BMF said:


> I don't think anyone got this on their hands yet but there are 8 votes already for total only 3 stars: they voted because of plastic reflector? As someone posted it's not an incan so it might be OK. Just wonder why people voted before they actually use it???


How can it not get hot?


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## KrisP (Apr 7, 2008)

Most of the heat goes out the back of the LED into the heatsink, then the head and battery tube. It's unlikely, but possible, the head would get hot enough to melt hard plastic like that.


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## 2xTrinity (Apr 7, 2008)

fxstsb said:


> How can it not get hot?


Incandescent lamps radiate almost all the power put into them as infrared rays. That is why the beams from incandescent lights feel "warm". A big fraction of this IR component is absorbed by the reflector. With LEDs, even though the beam is very bright, ALL The energy in the beam is visible, there is no "extra" IR power to cause heating in the reflector. In contrast, waste heat with LEDs has to be heatsinked away through the body of the light, a different challenge entirely.


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## Mike Painter (Apr 7, 2008)

Here are some comparison shots of Electrolumens P7 compared with his MT4.


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## jake25 (Apr 8, 2008)

plastic reflector isn't the main reason why you shouldn't get it

heatsinking, in general, of the P7 is very important, i'm kinda iffy on that.

the plastic reflector isn't goin go up in flames...


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## sims2k (Apr 8, 2008)

If plastic reflector is the issue...how about a generic metal reflector replacement for this light. I will wait for review before buying one.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Apr 8, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> Incandescent lamps radiate almost all the power put into them as infrared rays. That is why the beams from incandescent lights feel "warm". A big fraction of this IR component is absorbed by the reflector. With LEDs, even though the beam is very bright, ALL The energy in the beam is visible, there is no "extra" IR power to cause heating in the reflector. In contrast, waste heat with LEDs has to be heatsinked away through the body of the light, a different challenge entirely.


If "ALL the energy in the beam is visible," then why can I feel heat from the beam of my 38W 9-Cree (from several inches away) while the stars are cool to the touch?


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## MatajumotorS (Apr 8, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> If "ALL the energy in the beam is visible," then why can I feel heat from the beam of my 38W 9-Cree (from several inches away) while the stars are cool to the touch?


 
Same of because you can burn things by red laser :naughty: .

p.s. I can feel the heat a little from my quard seoul too.


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## Jarl (Apr 8, 2008)

Some heat is created by an LED in IR radiation, but not very much- a stock 3 cell mag will feel a lot warmer when you put your hand in front of it than say, an L0D.


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## mash.m (Apr 8, 2008)

i can feel a lot of heat from my bigmag3 with 20 ssc p4!

still waiting for my p7 mte light 

markus


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## TorchBoy (Apr 8, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> If "ALL the energy in the beam is visible," then why can I feel heat from the beam of my 38W 9-Cree (from several inches away) while the stars are cool to the touch?


There's a lot of radiant energy in the light. Your skin has to do something with that energy, and it converts it to heat. The darker you skin the more of that energy it'll absorb instead of reflecting away. Sunlight has more radiant energy than just the visible stuff, but that's the same basic reason why black cats, after lying in sunshine for a while, roll over and their really hot fur gets pressed against them, and ... oo:


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## jbosman1013 (Apr 8, 2008)

For the first time it was not this forum that made me buy a light, it was my brother. I was showing him the MTE P7 on the DX site and as soon as he sees it he says "and you haven't ordered that yet" so after placing my order I realized I had no 18650's! So after a trip to the marketplace the grand total is now over $80 :mecry: but I could have 900 lumens on the way


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## IMSabbel (Apr 8, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> If "ALL the energy in the beam is visible," then why can I feel heat from the beam of my 38W 9-Cree (from several inches away) while the stars are cool to the touch?



Because ALL light (from microwave up to gamma rays, including visible) will heat things up if absorbt.

Its just that incandecents have 10 times more infrared than visible, plus reflectors that are good in optical often are not as good in infrared, thus the effect is orders of magnitutde stronger in an equally as bight incand vs led


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## kramer5150 (Apr 8, 2008)

Someone kind of did something similar, in DD form though...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/193914


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## IMSabbel (Apr 8, 2008)

One thing about heatsinking, thought:

I noticed many people will just put the pill on a 5cm long aluminium cylinder, and everybody writes "great heatsinking".

P7 will show this to be what it is: crappy heatsinking (as its just a heat buffer, not a sink). 20W of thermal output is more than a plain round tube of aluminium reasonably can dissipate, so i guess for the future, _real_ heatsinks (i.e. radial fins around the head) will become more and more common.

Indirectly, this might also benefit the general throwiness of leds: as there the need to make the lights thicker, you can also put in a bigger reflector "for free"...


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## Fat (Apr 8, 2008)

im guessing, it gonna be a flood light from the looks of the beamshots at dx.


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## TorchBoy (Apr 8, 2008)

IMSabbel said:


> I noticed many people will just put the pill on a 5cm long aluminium cylinder, and everybody writes "great heatsinking".
> 
> P7 will show this to be what it is: crappy heatsinking (as its just a heat buffer, not a sink).


Thanks for highlighting that difference. I've wondered about it for a while. Why do people do it?


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## Mike Painter (Apr 8, 2008)

I'ver always believed that a heat sink is something that is designed to *hold* excessive heat. It acts teh same way a water sink does. If water goes in faster than it goes out then at some point the sink is full and no longer performs as it should, thus it is always a temporary solution.
You must have a radiator to get rid of heat properly, that is why computer chips and cars have radiators, not big blocks of aluminium to juust hold the heat.
A light with a finned reflector bonded to the heat sink would be a good partial solution, especially if the reflector was the "head" of the light.


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## martonic (Apr 8, 2008)

Mike Painter said:


> I'ver always believed that a heat sink is something that is designed to *hold* excessive heat. It acts teh same way a water sink does. If water goes in faster than it goes out then at some point the sink is full and no longer performs as it should, thus it is always a temporary solution.
> You must have a radiator to get rid of heat properly, that is why computer chips and cars have radiators, not big blocks of aluminium to juust hold the heat.
> A light with a finned reflector bonded to the heat sink would be a good partial solution, especially if the reflector was the "head" of the light.


By definition, a heat sink is intended to drain heat, not to hold it.


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## TorchBoy (Apr 9, 2008)

martonic said:


> By definition, a heat sink is intended to drain heat, not to hold it.


As opposed to a heat basin (with no hole in the bottom)? :thinking:


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## Mike Painter (Apr 9, 2008)

Here is a tutorial on building a P7 along with some pictures taken out doors, some during daylight. This is an impressive light.
DIY P7


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## Photon_Whisperer (Apr 9, 2008)

Mike Painter said:


> I'ver always believed that a heat sink is something that is designed to *hold* excessive heat. It acts teh same way a water sink does. If water goes in faster than it goes out then at some point the sink is full and no longer performs as it should, thus it is always a temporary solution.
> You must have a radiator to get rid of heat properly, that is why computer chips and cars have radiators, not big blocks of aluminium to juust hold the heat.
> A light with a finned reflector bonded to the heat sink would be a good partial solution, especially if the reflector was the "head" of the light.



Nope, the purpose of a heat sink is to provide a thermal path to carry the heat away from the source. A block of Al with no way to dissipate the heat is nothing more than a "buffer" as IMSabbel aptly put it. Once it is saturated (doesn't take long), the heat transfer slows to a trickle. It does little to change the steady state temperature of the emitter except increase the surface area of the pill for the heat to be radiated/conducted/convected to the head/body. Conduction here is the most effective method so unless the gap is bridged with thermal grease or glue to complete the thermal path to the outside, the Al slug is not doing much for you.


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## lctorana (Apr 9, 2008)

But it's a compromise, like most design issues in life.

A perfect heat sink would make your hand hot.

The ideal is to carry as much heat away from the emitter as practicable, without turning the barrel into a soldering iron in the process. It's tricky.


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## Supernam (Apr 9, 2008)

I'd rather have my hand get hot to tell me to turn off the light, then to damage or kill the emitter. Anyway... we can all agree that IF this light runs at the 2.8A specification, it would get hot... FAST.


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## TorchBoy (Apr 9, 2008)

Yeah, 10 watts is a fair amount of heating. Our warm bloodedness should help carry heat away from the thing... for a little while.


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## Mike Painter (Apr 9, 2008)

Photon_Whisperer said:


> Nope, the purpose of a heat sink is to provide a thermal path to carry the heat away from the source.




Since *I* am never wrong I must confess that my dog Sam was the one who wrote the other comments. He is sneaky and very big(115 pound Shepard). I was going to post the picture of him sleeping with a kitten using his paw as a pillow but he said it would destroy his image.

Thanks for the corrections.


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## OceanView (Apr 9, 2008)

Mike Painter said:


> ...I must confess that my dog Sam was the one who wrote the other comments.


<incredulously> You gave your dog the password to your computer? Good grief, man! Bad dog, bad dog! 

By the way, smart pooch you got.


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## martonic (Apr 9, 2008)

OceanView said:


> By the way, smart pooch you got.


 
A man goes into the movie theater and sits down next to a lady with a beagle on her lap.

Throughout the movie, when it gets sad the dog puts his head down and simpers, and when it gets funny he perks up his ears, wags his tail and yips softly.

When the movie ends, the dog puts his paws together and claps!

The man turns to the lady and says "Wow, I'm amazed your dog enjoyed the movie so much".

"So am I" says the lady. "I can't believe it. He hated the book!"


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## johnny13oi (Apr 9, 2008)

Maybe they should have like fins or something at the head like deep engravings (something like the square design on the Dexlight X.1) so that the surface area can be greatly increased to help dissipate the heat.


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## DKTVPN (Apr 9, 2008)

$44.52 for 900 lumens: that's about $0.05/lumen. It's cheap but will it last long? Looks like people are not ready to order it yet until someone posts a review.


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## lctorana (Apr 10, 2008)

I ordered one a couple of days ago.

It is claimed be the size of a 2BF torch, yet be as bright as a RoP - off the shelf, without any mods.

This is the most significant flashlight development since the first Luxeon, IMHO. If it delivers as promised, this will change everything.

900 lumens - let's put that in context.

This is much more than a standard 60W bulb (700 lumens), and very nearly as much as a 75W bulb (925 lumens).

And a 75W bulb is enough to comfortably light a medium-sized room.

Now just think - that much illumination from a factory-spec torch.

Why would any CPF member NOT buy one?

Pull the trigger. You know you want to.


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## Yapo (Apr 10, 2008)

I've been having trouble ordering from DX since some time last year...my paypal asks for a credit card when ever i try paying...I dont have a credit card and i usually pay by bank transfer...It used to work fine but not any more...but KD and Fenix-store still work fine for me at least...but DX seems to have better/more products than KD


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## Mercaptan (Apr 10, 2008)

lctorana said:


> Now just think - that much illumination from a factory-spec torch.
> 
> Why would any CPF member NOT buy one?
> 
> Pull the trigger. You know you want to.



I'd be willing to bet the price of this exact light that it doesn't put out 900 lumens (not that we can test it anyway), but assuming that 500 or 600 make it out of the lens will be a great accomplishment.


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## NA8 (Apr 10, 2008)

Isn't the Surefire U2B version of this only rated for 400 lumens ?


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## Jarl (Apr 10, 2008)

The reason I'm not ordering is because it's a torch designed for a 3W emitter, with a 12W emitter stuffed into it... Slight problems with thermal management.

Because of the thermal management problems, the LED will warm up, decreasing output.


I just want to wait for reviews before I decide to yay/nay this light. I mean, it'd probably be fairly good if you seriously mod it (solder to the base for heat transfer, solder heatsink to the body of the light, new circuit board, etc) but I just want to check it's not a complete failure before throwing away $45.


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## Bigsy (Apr 10, 2008)

I'm not ordering as MTE have been my most disappointing light purchases to date, the internals of the CR123 rebel 100 light were dire.

The Rebel star wasn't even fixed to the pill it was just pushed on with the crappy plastic reflector when you did up the light. And general quality all round was awful when compared to say romisens/ultrafires etc. And the speed to which this came to market worries me even more.

I'm going to wait until one of the other china manufactures come out with one, properly designed, and with hopefully with some kind of build quality.


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## Vikas Sontakke (Apr 10, 2008)

You may have a point there. When Romisen comes out with 900L light I will jump on it as soon as it shows up.

- Vikas


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## Photon_Whisperer (Apr 10, 2008)

Yep, the biggest steamer I ever bought was the MTE 21 mode Rebel light. I got this one with the thinking I might harvest the P7 and board for a custom build though, so I figured it's worth a try.


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## BMF (Apr 10, 2008)

There's a review of another similar flashlight with plastic reflector but only 9500 lux @ 1m.

- Here is the similar plastic reflector light.

- Anh his review about it, just copy/paste:

*Excellence *Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:20 PM </B>Reply 
Top notch. 100% submerge-able in water. 
Flashlight feels strong and durable. I dropped mine actually and I only got a few scratches on the body. The light stayed on. 

The threads are clean and nicely cut so everything screws together flush. The rubber washers are perfectly fitted into their grooves making it water proof. 

The paint on the light is baked on, so it will not crack or chip off. 

One thing that it suffers from is the plastic reflector. However it does the job perfectly fine. 
It does not flood as much as regular reflectors. 

All the heat from the emitter goes down into the body of the flashlight. 

The reflector will not melt. 

For $40.00 I'd buy it. When I get my P7 I'll take pictures with my other light beside it.



So I hope this P7 will be fine with a lot higher output.


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## LEDninja (Apr 10, 2008)

Binning information:
Flux BIN Code
A : 440 - 570 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~286 - 370 lumen out front.
B : 570 - 740 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~370 - 481 lumen out front.
C : 740 - 960 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~481 - 624 lumen out front.
assuming the torch pushed the LED to the spec of 2.8 A.

When you consider this one uses 1x18650 compared to neoselkan's 3x18650 or Elektrolumens' 3xD it may not be able to maintain 2.8 A for long.

Take a look at how fast the output drops on the MTE SSC P4 version:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.4924
The P7 will drop 4x as fast.

BTW Ernsanada has Elektrolumens' P7 on review:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194716
Notice how the P7 produces a much wider hotspot and brighter spill than the Malkoff P4. I believe both torches are using stock mag plastic reflectors with the cam cut off.


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## jrdhmmr (Apr 10, 2008)

BMF said:


> There's a review of another similar flashlight with plastic reflector but only 9500 lumens at 1m.
> 
> - Here is the similar plastic reflector light.



This is the light we're discussing on this forum, unless you meant to link another light.

Also, I don't think you meant 9500 lumens. Probably you meant 9500 lux at 1M.


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## BMF (Apr 10, 2008)

> Originally Posted by *BMF*
> 
> 
> _There's a review of another similar flashlight with plastic reflector but only 9500 lux @ 1m._
> ...


 



jrdhmmr said:


> This is the light we're discussing on this forum, unless you meant to link another light.
> 
> Also, I don't think you meant 9500 lumens. Probably you meant 9500 lux at 1M.


 

 Link fixed. Thanks!


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## PayBack (Apr 11, 2008)

Compare the beam shots to the one in the link above. The P7 looks to be nothing but flood. I hope not as I've ordered one.


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## Northern Lights (Apr 11, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> Binning information:
> Flux BIN Code
> A : 440 - 570 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~286 - 370 lumen out front.
> B : 570 - 740 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~370 - 481 lumen out front.
> ...


 
I am very familiar with the 0.65 or 65% torch lumen from bulb lumen equations used in incans. :twothumbs I was under the impression that did not apply to the output on LEDs since their output is measured directionally by the manufacturer and the involvement of the reflector efficiencies with an LED being quite different too. Most of the physics invloved are different for that matter.

I was believing the efficiencies for LEDs was more like 90-95% not 65%. But I do not remember where I picked up that discussion.:thinking:

My interests are drifting more into LED lately. Can anyone please direct me to some posts or information regarding the torch lumens represented in LED out put? 

Looks like there is something new to learn here. You got my attention!


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## bexamous (Apr 11, 2008)

I see heat being an issue with this... but for the money... how much can you reasonably ask for? It'll still be quite bright... and how often do you need 900 lumens for 20 minutes straight? 

BTW What are the chances of a p7 dropin for dereelight? Probably have to have a new reflector as well. I can't wait for a well made p7 light .


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## Jarl (Apr 11, 2008)

Northern Lights said:


> I was believing the efficiencies for LEDs was more like 90-95% not 65%. But I do not remember where I picked up that discussion.:thinking:



It's about 85% for cheap TIR optics, to 95% for very expensive TIR optics (sapphire glass). I can't imagine reflectors are lagging that far behind else everyone would use TIR.


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## LEDninja (Apr 11, 2008)

I am using 65% as that is the only # available.
Only Surefire and Arc make use of CALIBRATED integrating spheres to measure total light output (lumens).
Chinese manufacturers do not have access to CALIBRATED integrating spheres and only measure light on axis to the torch (lux @ xM).
A bright flood light have high lumens but low lux.
A dim well focussed light will have low lumens but high lux.
Reference:
http://flashlightreviews.com/features/lux.htm
http://flashlightreviews.com/features/output_vs_throw.htm#lumens
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/191362
note while the Zebralight and L1D have roughly the same lumens the lack of a hotspot (low lux) makes it look much dimmer.


Northern Lights said:


> I am very familiar with the 0.65 or 65% torch lumen from bulb lumen equations used in incans. :twothumbs I was under the impression that did not apply to the output on LEDs since their output is measured directionally by the manufacturer and the involvement of the reflector efficiencies with an LED being quite different too. Most of the physics invloved are different for that matter.



My gut feel is that while LED torches are generally better at getting the light out they are nowhere near 90-95%. The lens of a a stock Maglight will absorb 10-11% by itself. While some high end lights use AR coated lens a fingerprint (easy to do when fishing a torch out of a pocket) will negate that until such time as I get out my camera lens cleaning kit.
Much of the high #s are a result of manufacturers (especially Fenix) using a higher bin LED than in the spec. Fenix L0D CE spec is based on the P2 bin. They never shipped a P2 bin to North America. P3, P4, Q2 (all undocumented) during 2007. So 65% of a Q2 bin is close to 100% of the spec P2 bin.
Some 5mm LEDs have very narrow beam angles. 15 degree for the Nichia BS, CS, DS. So almost none of the light hits the reflector of an Arc AAA and with no lens, almost all the light from the LED comes out the front.
Note the light discussed in this thread has been referred to earlier as a $30 LED in a $15 torch. I do not think they are using the most efficient reflectors or AR coated lens.


Northern Lights said:


> I was believing the efficiencies for LEDs was more like 90-95% not 65%. But I do not remember where I picked up that discussion.:thinking:



Most of the data is about a year old. Multiply the total output # in FLR by 1.39.
http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/fenix_l0dce.htm
L0D CE is 46 lumens (I am assuming P3 bin).
P3 bin is 65 L/W
Q4 bin is 88 L/W
So a L0D Q4 is probably 46*88/65 or 62 lumens.
Selfbuilt's reviews have a lightbox reading but I do not know how to get lumens from it.


Northern Lights said:


> My interests are drifting more into LED lately. Can anyone please direct me to some posts or information regarding the torch lumens represented in LED out put?
> Looks like there is something new to learn here. You got my attention!



I do not think my guesstimates are out of line if you look at post #124.
A : 440 - 570 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~286 - 370 lumen out front.
B : 570 - 740 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~370 - 481 lumen out front.
C : 740 - 960 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~481 - 624 lumen out front.


NA8 said:


> Isn't the Surefire U2B version of this only rated for 400 lumens ?



I am still "Waiting for Supplier". Someone else will get theirs before I do.


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## jirik_cz (Apr 11, 2008)

On a german bike forum they measured many lights and light sources in integrating sphere. You can check their results here http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=4320770&postcount=127

You can find there that McR 17 reflector has 89% efficiency, IMS 20mm 85%, Carclo 10° optic only 67-73%, Fenix L2D CE has 81%.

So I think it is safe to say that with good quality reflector and glass the torch lumens of LED light are 80-90% of emitter lumens.


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## Northern Lights (Apr 11, 2008)

LEDninja 
Thank you, you spent some time and effort to look that up for me. I will be studying it.
NL


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## BMF (Apr 12, 2008)

I just got an email my light has shipped, I hope it'll be here by the end of next week. Can't wait to try out 900 lumens.

BTW, how to know the reflector is about to melt? Looking at it is too bright to do and when I can feel the heat in the body it might be too late.


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## DavidC (Apr 12, 2008)

bexamous said:


> BTW What are the chances of a p7 dropin for dereelight? Probably have to have a new reflector as well.





I would love to see this!


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## BUZ (Apr 12, 2008)

Ordered a week ago and am still getting this message: Waiting for supplier. 

Have a feeling I won't receive it for @ last another two weeks! :thumbsdow


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## easilyled (Apr 12, 2008)

I found an email related to my order apologizing for the delay, stating
that delayed orders are typically shipped within three days from 
the date of the notice and also giving me the option of canceling my order.


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## kwarwick (Apr 12, 2008)

easilyled said:


> I found an email related to my order apologizing for the delay, stating
> that delayed orders are typically shipped within three days from
> the date of the notice and also giving me the option of canceling my order.



I wouldn't be too concerned at this point. I've often gotten such an email and within a few days they ship the item. At least DX sends confirmation, delays, and shipment emails, unlike a certain other competitor who leaves you totally in the dark.


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## BUZ (Apr 12, 2008)

easilyled said:


> I found an email related to my order apologizing for the delay, stating
> that delayed orders are typically shipped within three days from
> the date of the notice and also giving me the option of canceling my order.




I just got the same thing! 

Edit: order canceled, now hopefully I won't have to wait a month for a refund.


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## FlashKat (Apr 12, 2008)

I decided to cancel my order when I received this notice. I think I will wait for a better design.


easilyled said:


> I found an email related to my order apologizing for the delay, stating
> that delayed orders are typically shipped within three days from
> the date of the notice and also giving me the option of canceling my order.


----------



## Photon_Whisperer (Apr 12, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> Only Surefire and Arc make use of CALIBRATED integrating spheres to measure total light output (lumens).
> Chinese manufacturers do not have access to CALIBRATED integrating spheres and only measure light on axis to the torch (lux @ xM).



From where are you getting this information? Anybody can buy a lab grade integrating sphere setup (source based calibrated or sphere/detector calibrated) for a few thousand dollars. I've built a couple for our gov myself, there's nothing to it. There are no export controls on the equipment and even if there were, it's nothing they couldn't make themselves rather easily.


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## Excellence (Apr 13, 2008)

BMF said:


> There's a review of another similar flashlight with plastic reflector but only 9500 lux @ 1m.
> 
> - Here is the similar plastic reflector light.
> 
> ...



Correct BMF. That is me. I have the same tube but with a P4 Cree in it. I modded it.



easilyled said:


> I found an email related to my order apologizing for the delay, stating
> that delayed orders are typically shipped within three days from
> the date of the notice and also giving me the option of canceling my order.



I'm thinking if I should just cancel it and go with the one from KD.


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## PayBack (Apr 14, 2008)

I haven't cancelled my order out of consideration for the rest of you. If I don't, with my luck Fenix will come out with one the day after I get mine from DX. So I hope you appreaciate my sacrifice


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## LEDninja (Apr 14, 2008)

The bulk of the lumen #s from the Chinese manufacturers are out of whack when compared to flashlight reviews measurements. They seem to correspond more closely to calculated LED lumens from LED manufacturer's data sheets. US$2000 = HK$10000. It is quite expensive to buy an integrating sphere over there.
Kai Domain's lightbox #s are not too bad. But he has fallen into the inflated #s game on this one. He is claiming 1000 lumens on his version of this light.
EDIT: He dropped it to 900 lumens now /EDIT.
B : 570 - 740 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~370 - 481 lumen out front.
C : 740 - 960 lumen @ LED *0.65 = ~481 - 624 lumen out front
I suspect the currently shipping P7s are high B or low C bins. So I expect around 740 LED lumens. (That is still 3X a Fenix TK10's 225 lumens.) If you wait until the end of the year when the Cree XRE R4 dies are available you will probably see 900 LED lumens no problem.
Everybody please note:
"*maximum* 900 lumens" That guarantees actual lumens is less than 900 lumens. This is like Terralux claiming maximum 5 watts for their minimag drop in. While the K2 LED can handle 5 watts properly heat sinked, the lack of heat sinking in the minimag limits the drop in to much less.


Photon_Whisperer said:


> From where are you getting this information? Anybody can buy a lab grade integrating sphere setup (source based calibrated or sphere/detector calibrated) for a few thousand dollars. I've built a couple for our gov myself, there's nothing to it. There are no export controls on the equipment and even if there were, it's nothing they couldn't make themselves rather easily.



+1
I almost cancelled and ordered from Kai but I saw he is using a smooth reflector. I think I'll play safe and wait for a textured reflector.
(cmacclel who built 2 of the early P7 torches says the smooth reflector does not work well with the P7 and he is using stippled reflectors)
(Elektrolumens is using the stock Mag smooth reflector and the beamshots by both him and Ernsanada look acceptable)


PayBack said:


> I haven't cancelled my order out of consideration for the rest of you. If I don't, with my luck Fenix will come out with one the day after I get mine from DX. So I hope you appreaciate my sacrifice


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## 2xTrinity (Apr 14, 2008)

> You can find there that McR 17 reflector has 89% efficiency, IMS 20mm 85%, Carclo 10° optic only 67-73%, Fenix L2D CE has 81%.


I'm guessing these efficiency figures are going to be inflated by the fact that mcuh of the light never even strikes the refelctor surface -- with LEDs, particularly Cree XR-Es, a huge percentage of the light output exits the front of the light as "spill" without ever being directed by the reflector.

Based on empirical evidence on these threads, I'd say the aluminum reflector surfaces are only about 70% efficient, perhaps even less if they degrade. 

This is why incans would tend to be more "lossy" in tersm of bulb-lumens to torch lumens -- incans emit light in all directions, thus the refelctros capture more. In that scenario they'd actually be a lot more efficient in terms of "beam" lumens vs torch lumens, however.


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## TorchBoy (Apr 14, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> US$2000 = HK$10000. It is quite expensive to buy an integrating sphere over there.


Try HK$15,500. I don't know if that's horrendously expensive.


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## Jarl (Apr 14, 2008)

So? As long as the purchasing power parity (lol, economics) of the two currencies is similar, integrating spheres should cost about the same. Just because their number is bigger than yours, doesn't mean it's also more expensive.


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## TorchBoy (Apr 14, 2008)

I wonder what they BMI (Big Mac Index) is...


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## pbs357 (Apr 15, 2008)

Got the shipping notification that mine is on the way! Really looking forward to this one...


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## BMF (Apr 17, 2008)

It's been 6 days since I got the email my light has shipped but when I check I couldn't find any record where it is now. For people who's received it what day did you order and how long did it take to your home?


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## Bigsy (Apr 17, 2008)

Odd this thread hasn't been closed down like the P7 KD thread: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194952

Or the multiude of other threads calling 'attention' to lights on the 1st page of this forum which are NOT closed.
eg:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194979
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194702
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194658
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=172339
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=193197
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194437

It's rare I will ever comment on a moderating decision, its a hard job I know, but there is no way that KD thread should of been closed, who's to say its a "Good Deal" if no one has it!!. And should we need to signup to the marketplace to talk about a light? Bit of consistency please!


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## LEDninja (Apr 17, 2008)

Bigsy said:


> Odd this thread hasn't been closed down like the P7 KD thread: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194952


This is the original thread for a 1x18650 P7 flashlight. If this thread is closed there is no other place to discuss a 1x18650 flashlight.

CPF is getting too big for everyone to start their own thread when one already existed. The mods stopped the starting of new threads in the Reviews Forum after over 10 separate review threads showed up about the TK10 (instead of everyone discussing their experiences in a single thread). You could simply have posted in this thread "Kaidomain got them too, but with a smooth reflector" which would make comparisons of the 2 torches more convenient in addition to reducing the thread count on CPF.

Note this thread started with "I saw this at DX...." while yours started with "ww.Kaidomain....." which is considered a no no sales link on CPF proper. Learn to use the {url="link"}description{/url} syntax. Square brackets please.

The 1st page of the P7 KD thread was filled with flames about Kai's rotten specs. Flamming is discouraged to keep CPF happy. Not your fault but that catches the eye of the mods real fast.

Anyways this thread is now defunct as discussion has moved over to the P7 900 lumens MTE DX first impression thread.


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## Bigsy (Apr 17, 2008)

This thread is clearly not titled "1x18650 P7 flashlight" which completely nullifies the rest of your post. Bar the {url="link"}description{/url} comment, which to quite quite blunt, you can stick, I'll format my posts how I see fit. Are you that arrogant in real life? I hope not.

Good day.


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## zerafull (Apr 17, 2008)

HI

and..  nobody have make a lil' review of this DX flashlight ? how many lux at one meter ? if you can replace the OP reflector by smooth reflecotr from dx ?

best regards !!!!!! :twothumbs:twothumbs


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## jrdhmmr (Apr 17, 2008)

BMF said:


> It's been 6 days since I got the email my light has shipped but when I check I couldn't find any record where it is now. For people who's received it what day did you order and how long did it take to your home?



You have to remember that DX is in China. 
They ship via Hong Kong Post, which then gets routed through the USPS. Thats why you will only ever be able to track it via Hong Kong Post, & it will only show when that it shipped.
Also, they state that it can take 7-14 business days. In my experience it is typically nearer to 7 business days, or roughly about a week and a half from ship date. That is normal.


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## jrdhmmr (Apr 17, 2008)

zerafull said:


> HI
> 
> and..  nobody have make a lil' review of this DX flashlight ? how many lux at one meter ? if you can replace the OP reflector by smooth reflecotr from dx ?
> 
> best regards !!!!!! :twothumbs:twothumbs



I'm sure someone will, as soon as anyone gets one. It hasn't been long enough yet for anyone to have received one. Should be pretty soon though, I expect/hope.


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## LEDninja (Apr 17, 2008)

Review here:
P7 900 lumens MTE DX first impression
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/195228


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## Empath (Apr 17, 2008)

So, with the creation of the mentioned discussion thread, this "shopping experience" thread can be closed as off topic.

This thread opened with this "heads-up" post:


BMF said:


> I saw this new one at DX for $44.52: 900 lumens, wow!



Such "heads-up" finds are to be posted in the "Good Deals" forum of the MarketPlace. Discussions of your orders, when they arrive or don't arrive and such should be considered a dealer discussion topic suitable for the Dealers' Corner. True product discussion can take place in the above mentioned discussion thread.


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