# My love and desire for incandescents only grows stronger now



## ebow86 (Jun 16, 2011)

I see quite a few threads here talking about surefire's decision to drop their incandescent models and parts. The most shocking part of this is whole story is how many people seem "suprised". Come on guys, we ALL knew this was coming eventually, although I didn't expect it this soon. 

Anyway, I just wanted to say that although surefire's decision has negatively affected many members here, the love I have for glowing filaments only grows stronger now. Knowing that this breed of flashlight technology is being replaced by LED's because most only care about runtime and output makes me enjoy incandescent flashlights even more. While most are shining their lifeless, flat and dull emitters I in the meantime will be bathing in the warmth, clarity, and full spectrum of colors that comes from that globe of glass, gas, and burning filaments. Is the incandescent flashlight dead? I don't think so, not even close. Because I know this breed of flashlight still has plenty of life to burn and as I said, my love and desire for incandescents only grows stronger now.


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## CheepSteal (Jun 17, 2011)

I agree with you that there is nothing better than the glowing filament and radiating heat and warmth. I think there is always going to be a demographic of incandescent users, although the runtime issue is probably the biggest practicality issue. Most people probably don't carry spare CR123 batts with them and 20 minutes of runtime probably doesn't sound too appealing. I am currently looking to purchase some Surefire incans before they're all discontinued.
All in all, I love the power of the incandescent lights like you, but I will probably always EDC a LED for emergency runtime's sake. I also don't like being blasted by 120 lumens when I wake up in the middle of the night


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## kaichu dento (Jun 17, 2011)

While I share your love of incandescent light I'd like to point out that it's not true about LED-only members not caring only about output and runtime. The holy grail of LED pursuit is an incandescent glow coming from an emitter that seldom breaks or burns out and also has the ability to be regulated for lower output levels.

When I shine my high CRI Clicky or warm MiNi or EZAAw people are always surprised to find that they aren't incandescent. Last week I was showing some of my lights to a guy at the hot springs and he had just pointed out that he hated LED's. I showed him the light from my Clicky and he immediately assumed it was incandescent. 

In all actuality, I'd be carrying incandescent lights regularly if I could dim them down as easily as I can my LED lights, or my incandescent house lights for that matter. I don't think incandescent light will ever completely go away, even if LED's get to where they're aimed to go a present, especially if someone can get us a dimmer circuit that is readily affordable.


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## ebow86 (Jun 17, 2011)

kaichu dento said:


> While I share your love of incandescent light I'd like to point out that it's not true about LED-only members not caring only about output and runtime.
> .



Sure there are other factors people consider when it comes to LED's, but in MOST cases (not all) the thing most people are mostly looking for are output and runtime or efficiency.


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## kaichu dento (Jun 17, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> Sure there are other factors people consider when it comes to LED's, but in MOST cases (not all) the thing most people are mostly looking for are output and runtime or efficiency.


I'm there for efficiency, but my top priorities are tint, beam pattern, UI and the lowest possible level the light can produce. I have an E1e but every time I tried carrying it, it was too bright. Love the tint, but if you ever come up with a way for us to dim them down affordably then I'll be carrying an incan on a regular basis!


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## scout24 (Jun 19, 2011)

Nowhere near as low as I would like, but I just put a 3-level Softstart in my stock C2/P60.  Should help with some runtime on lower levels, and bulb life as well. Nothing beats the Incan tint, though I love my poor man's Sundrop 3S.


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## kaichu dento (Jun 20, 2011)

scout24 said:


> ...I just put a 3-level Softstart in my stock C2/P60...


Wish there were more options available on these so that I could put one on my E1e and the Streamlight Scorpion that I just got on the way.


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## chanjyj (Jun 20, 2011)

If I can control brightness levels I would EDC an incan. But having to carry 3 incan lights for 3 different light levels is ridiculous, even for me.

I used to EDC a Surefire M2 w/ P61. But I just couldn't dim it down when needed, and ended up using my HDS 170T (which was the backup). Kind of the defeated the purpose.


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## kaichu dento (Jun 20, 2011)

I wish Henry made a Clicky Incan with the same UI we already know and love!


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## scout24 (Jun 20, 2011)

I did ask, and apparently there are no plans for an E-series softstart of any kind. I'd love to see one, too!


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 20, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> I see quite a few threads here talking about surefire's decision to drop their incandescent models and parts. The most shocking part of this is whole story is how many people seem "suprised". Come on guys, we ALL knew this was coming eventually, although I didn't expect it this soon.
> 
> Anyway, I just wanted to say that although surefire's decision has negatively affected many members here, the love I have for glowing filaments only grows stronger now. Knowing that this breed of flashlight technology is being replaced by LED's because most only care about runtime and output makes me enjoy incandescent flashlights even more. While most are shining their lifeless, flat and dull emitters I in the meantime will be bathing in the warmth, clarity, and full spectrum of colors that comes from that globe of glass, gas, and burning filaments. Is the incandescent flashlight dead? I don't think so, not even close. Because I know this breed of flashlight still has plenty of life to burn and as I said, my love and desire for incandescents only grows stronger now.



Cool post. It has always been cool to have and use incands for all the reasons you mention. Most LED Jockeys don't understand them. I love using JimmyM, Eric's, and AlanB's regulated drivers that are way more sophisticated and custom programmable than LED boards. 

I mostly use incands that use rechargeable NiMH or Li-Ions, and it's not a big deal to stick them in a charger after a trip. Obviously, I also love LED's and use them for all their long running and regulated dimming properties that are fine for many purposes.

I tried the supposedly high CRI from HDS on recommendations of members, and if that's the best they got so far, I'm quite comfortable in saying that it's not even on the scale of my lowest level incand light. Doesn't mean they won't eventually get it right, but *this HDS CRI lighting is not at all close to incand.*

If others know of a *substantially *better performing CRI LED, please let me know.


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## oldways (Jun 20, 2011)

@Lux...agree on the HA high cri. I tried it and was badly disappointed. I do have an SSCP4 T1 4000K MILKY L1 that is near incan like, and even better is the Malkoff M61W 3700K. The M61W 3700 is the nearest to incan I have found. I am now edc it in a Z2.


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## ebow86 (Jun 20, 2011)

I was very dissapointed in my malkoff M61W 4000K, the tint that is. Don't get me wrong, it is a wonderful drop in. Beautiful balance of throw and spill, highest qualitly build, and gene and kathy seem like wonderful people to do business with. If fact the M61W 4000K is probably my best LED, however, I don't think the tint, color rendition, or "depth" is anywhere even remotely close to even a lower end incandescent. To be honest, the best tint and color rendition I have personally seen from an LED is, believe it or not, my Fenix TK20. I believe it comes the closest to imitating an incandescent lamp that I have seen so far, but even then I still dont consider it close to matching one, it just comes closer than anything else I've seen.

I have said this before here, and I really DO hope I am incorrect here, but I think that there is the possibility, however slim, that an LED may NEVER be able to fully match the best incandescents in color rendition and depth, or at least if they do, It's still quite a ways away. Only time will tell.


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## tomp (Jun 20, 2011)

We'll all be wanting to upgrade to the new LEDs that can do the color rendering of an incandescent bulb, which is the next generation of LEDs that we'll see in the near future. Right now, the push is on to get the brightest and most efficiency out of the current marketplace. However, that market will soon get saturated and then some company will figure out the coloring aspect from an LED and we'll all want to upgrade in. We are a technology driven society and given enough time - we'll get there. I also own some Game Camera that use IR LED flash for spotting animals in their natural habitat. Currently, the red glow emitted directly from the LEDs, scares off whitetail deer. However, the cam companies have just started introducing Black Flash that makes the flash completely covert and cant be seen even when staring directly at the LEDs. This is accomplished with a filter that blocks the red light. Simple coatings on the lenses can alter the color output of the light. All is takes is a company to spend the money to research the optics coatings to produdce the effect we all seek. Binocular and rifle scope companies are experts in the optics coatings and as soon as they see there is a market for it, they will apply those skills to perfecting the LED and optics combinations with the coating required to make the transition.


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## notrefined (Jun 20, 2011)

LuxLuthor said:


> Cool post. It has always been cool to have and use incands for all the reasons you mention. Most LED Jockeys don't understand them. I love using JimmyM, Eric's, and AlanB's regulated drivers that are way more sophisticated and custom programmable than LED boards.
> 
> I mostly use incands that use rechargeable NiMH or Li-Ions, and it's not a big deal to stick them in a charger after a trip. Obviously, I also love LED's and use them for all their long running and regulated dimming properties that are fine for many purposes.
> 
> ...


 
the minimum 90 CRI XP-G emitters are worlds better than the HDS high CRI model I unfortunately bought first. They're still not the match of an incandescent, but close enough that I don't find them outright objectionable the way I now do almost every other LED I have experience with


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 20, 2011)

That's good to know, but LED Jockeys _(and I use the term affectionately--while considering myself an Incan-Jockey)_ keep promoting a high CRI LED that is better than most non-CRI LED's, but are hugely disappointing for those of us who value the output and variety of visible spectrum frequencies from incands. I suspect I would only be slightly less dejected with XP-G, M61W, or TK-20 than the HDS, so I'm not gonna bother with any more LED's until they solve what I prefer from incands. I think the best strategy will be a combination of multi-colored cores...but there are many other issues such as realistic depth of field, throw, heat dissipation, etc.


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## ebow86 (Jun 21, 2011)

What to also keep in mind is alot of the features that make LED "jockeys" happy can also be done with incandescent technology, in some cases quite easily. For example, imagine a new model of incan with these features. Fully regulated, soft start, multi-mode levels of output with a shock asorbing bezel. Now what I just mentioned would be a piece of cake to manufacture provided any manufactuer gave a crap about making a new incandescent flashlight. Ask yourself, with those kind of features applied to an incandescent, how "inferior" would an incandescent light be then?


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## calipsoii (Jun 21, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> What to also keep in mind is alot of the features that make LED "jockeys" happy can also be done with incandescent technology, in some cases quite easily. For example, imagine a new model of incan with these features. Fully regulated, multi-mode levels of output with a shock asorbing bezel. Now what I just mentioned would be a piece of cake to manufacture provided any manufactuer gave a crap about making a new incandescent flashlight. Ask yourself, with those kind of features applied to an incandescent, how "inferior" would an incandescent light be then?


 
Except for the shock-absorbing bezel, sounds like you're describing the A2.


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## ebow86 (Jun 21, 2011)

calipsoii said:


> Except for the shock-absorbing bezel, sounds like you're describing the A2.



Not really, well I mean the A2's low mode is LED. I am refering to multi modes with the incan lamp. This can be done, as the new magcharger has multiple mode's and AW's softstart driver offers multimodes as well. Which reminds me, soft start is another important feature, editing post.


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## Jpfree (Jun 21, 2011)

CheepSteal said:


> I agree with you that there is nothing better than the glowing filament and radiating heat and warmth. I think there is always going to be a demographic of incandescent users, although the runtime issue is probably the biggest practicality issue. Most people probably don't carry spare CR123 batts with them and 20 minutes of runtime probably doesn't sound too appealing. I am currently looking to purchase some Surefire incans before they're all discontinued.
> All in all, I love the power of the incandescent lights like you, but I will probably always EDC a LED for emergency runtime's sake. I also don't like being blasted by 120 lumens when I wake up in the middle of the night


 

i totally agree :huh:


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## kaichu dento (Jun 22, 2011)

LuxLuthor said:


> ...JimmyM, Eric's, and AlanB's regulated drivers that are way more sophisticated and custom programmable than LED boards.


Are any of them applicable to the E1e?


ebow86 said:


> What to also keep in mind is alot of the features that make LED "jockeys" happy can also be done with incandescent technology, in some cases quite easily. For example, imagine a new model of incan with these features. Fully regulated, soft start, multi-mode levels of output with a shock absorbing bezel. Now what I just mentioned would be a piece of cake to manufacture provided any manufacturer gave a crap about making a new incandescent flashlight. Ask yourself, with those kind of features applied to an incandescent, how "inferior" would an incandescent light be then?


This sounds very interesting, and just as hi fi tube amps made a resurgence in their field, I think there will always be some high end incans available.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 22, 2011)

kaichu dento said:


> Are any of them applicable to the E1e?


 
No. Their well publicized, numerous development and sales threads demonstrated the proof of concept. The circuit board templates were custom designed by the three members (& Willie Hunt) , who do not have the capability of circuit board miniaturization required for the E1E. 

The wonderful thing about each of their boards is the ability of the user to make changes in numerous software parameters, and re-upload the information to the main chip, or you could just tell them to set it up the way you want, and use it. JimmyM has also made another high voltage/current model for spotlight and high power incands.


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## kaichu dento (Jun 23, 2011)

It's encouraging to see these products and all I can do is hope that there'll be a wider range of this type of product available.


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## notrefined (Jun 25, 2011)

I had a high-end incan setup with the AW softstart driver...while the low modes were usable, they looked exactly like what they were-- an underdriven incan. which kind of takes the fun out of using a high-end, hard-driven incan. 

High-CRI leds suffer from a similar problem (tint and CRI change with drive current), but to a lesser degree.

No perfect solution, yet.

Maybe someone wants to tackle the Tri-V incan? Talk about a niche market


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## Lumens my eye! (Jun 25, 2011)

Just dropped in to learn more about Incans vs LED. I do not own anything w/ a glowing wire, well mini mag but I don't think that counts, any way what I am learning instead seems stunning to me, Sure Fire is discontinuing all Hot Wires? Believe me I don't live under a rock but I had heard nothing of this on the other site. Glad I visited, not sure yet what to make of this. Does anyone else make Quality Incans?
I will visit again,
LMI!


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## lasermax (Jul 10, 2011)

Hey aim with ya on incandescent. Aim still the old fashion way; and yes I do own plenty of leds but incandescent lights still remain in my hands today


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## ampdude (Jul 11, 2011)

kaichu dento said:


> While I share your love of incandescent light I'd like to point out that it's not true about LED-only members not caring only about output and runtime. The holy grail of LED pursuit is an incandescent glow coming from an emitter that seldom breaks or burns out and also has the ability to be regulated for lower output levels.
> 
> When I shine my high CRI Clicky or warm MiNi or EZAAw people are always surprised to find that they aren't incandescent. Last week I was showing some of my lights to a guy at the hot springs and he had just pointed out that he hated LED's. I showed him the light from my Clicky and he immediately assumed it was incandescent.
> 
> In all actuality, I'd be carrying incandescent lights regularly if I could dim them down as easily as I can my LED lights, or my incandescent house lights for that matter. I don't think incandescent light will ever completely go away, even if LED's get to where they're aimed to go a present, especially if someone can get us a dimmer circuit that is readily affordable.


 
Have six 60W bulbs above the dining room table and they run off a dimmer switch from Lowe's.  I don't use the dimmer switch very often though, as electricity is not in short supply when it comes from the A/C.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 11, 2011)

ampdude said:


> Have six 60W bulbs above the dining room table and they run off a dimmer switch from Lowe's.  I don't use the dimmer switch very often though, as electricity is not in short supply when it comes from the A/C.


I just installed dimmers on four different circuits throughout the house, and use them, not to save energy, but to set the amount of light I want - it's an as-needed thing, which makes for nice atmosphere too. Same with the flashlights.


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## glockriver (Jul 27, 2011)

Well, I'm still trying to figure this all out, but I'm looking to get an LED mainly to mount on my shotgun for varmint control. I don't own an LED light yet, so I'm having to rely on you all's opinions. I do like my G2 and SL Scorpions.


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