# XeVision HID 35W or 50?



## windstrings (Sep 25, 2006)

I have only seem comparisons with the XeVision HID 50Watt involved.. I have seen no 35 watt?
I see it outperforms the X990, but the X990 is only 35watts?

The XeVision HID has a slightly smaller reflector "4.25 inches" verses the 5 inch of the X990.

It appears that a 35Watt version of the XeVision HID could possibly perform worse than the X990?

Has anybody seen any comparisons of the 35 watt version?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 25, 2006)

I can only speak about my XeVision 50W that I got from the first group buy, vs. the X990 which I have had for about 6 months prior.

The 50W dramatically trounces the X990 however I try to compare them. I mean it isn't even close. I never saw a reason to consider getting the XeVision 35W version, since there was not that much price difference in the GB prices.

I'm anxiously awaiting the 75W upgrade parts for this GB that about 15 of us got.


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## windstrings (Sep 25, 2006)

Thats great to know... I don't want to spend twice as much if there is barely a difference... but I do like all the other options and features it has better than the X990.

I guess they made the 35watt "just to have it and be competitive".. but I think the smaller reflector works against them.

It takes really superior quality to come out with a light that "trounces" the bigger reflectors without costing an arm and a leg.

I'm amazed at the performance of the Costco light... that giant reflector is what makes the light happen.
A mirror is only so perfect, so the bigger the mirror, the more light gets bounced.

With a perfect mirror, I suppose there would be virtually "no" heat buildup in the reflector. 

I notice that with the X990, it bares gets warm which means its doing a great job.

Did you buy an extra battery for your Xevison or do you find you never need it?... how much did it cost if so? "the extra battery"


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## windstrings (Sep 25, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm anxiously awaiting the 75W upgrade parts for this GB that about 15 of us got.



So If I"m buying now.. do I have to buy the 50W and then upgrade.. or will they be selling the 75W version?

Seems you would need a new ballast, etc too.....

And do you know the runtime expected at that output?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 25, 2006)

Those are questions for Dan from XeVision to answer, but I assume there will eventually be a 75W version in a single package. When the first 50W GB was offered, there was no 75W GB being discussed, but Dan made a promise to those of us buying the 50W model that if there was a 75W Barn Burner that showed up in the Shootout-3 at the last minute...that we would be given an opportunity to upgrade before the 75W was made available to the general public. 

That promise goes back to early spring, so I'm expecting him to notify us shortly. The battery pack is inside a screw down bottom plate, and I didn't get a spare, nor would I contemplate one...since it is not the easiest thing to hot swap it in the field. That is one advantage the X990 has.


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## LED61 (Sep 25, 2006)

Guys, just wanted to kick in my two cents here....from certain experience with automotive HID. 50 watts in HID was initially achieved using a D2S 35 watt bulb via proper ballasts. People got all hyped up about this, but it burned the bulbs down quicker and there was already long talk about Philips developing a 50 watt bulb. The actual release of the DL50 came long after anyone expected, but 50 watts 5200 lumen output was successfuly achieved at the expense of lower bulb life via the new ballasts. I´m not sure about this, but I don´t think there is a bulb being developed for 75 watts, and suspect the new power will be attained via newer yet ballasts, and it would shorten the life of the 50 watt bulbs. I´d be content with the 50 watt output for a while, it´s such great light that it was thought to be overkill when it first came out.


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

Sorry for being so "unenlightened".. but If I understand you correctly...
you are saying that when the 50W first came out it was actually a 35watt bulb getting hit with a 50 watt ballast which in turn shortened the bulbs life?
first of all ... is that correct?

Second... If I understand you correctly, the present 50watt is a true 50 watt bulb getting hit with a 50 watt ballast, so it should have normal bulb life just as the 35 watts do that get hit with a 35 watt ballast?
Is this correct?

Third... It sounds like you suspect they are pulling the same game they did when the first 50 watt came out and its not a true 75 watt bulb, but rather a 50 watt bulb getting hit with a 75 watt ballast which if so, would in turn also shorten the bulbs life?
Correcto mundo?


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 26, 2006)

Wait for Dan to see this thread and give precise answers, rather than others guessing on how this is worked out for the various models. I'm sure it is more complex and filled with various qualifying caveats of engineering distinctions than you are assuming with your three assumptions...but I am not going to muddy the waters further. Dan is the man.


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## XeRay (Sep 26, 2006)

HID is not incandescent so power does not have the same effect. When 35 watt D2 HID bulbs are first started in automotive application they see over 100 watts. They are overdriven to accelerate warm up. A 35 watt bulb is very capable of being run long term at 50 watts, the life is derated (shortened) by about 30%. When considering the bulb life at 35 watts being near 3000 hours this is an acceptable trade-off especially for this application.

The wattages of the bulbs are established for certain life ratings. The bulb we use for 75 watts can be run much higher (80-100W) than that but would require suplemental cooling to maintain life. Our 75 watt bulb gets similar life to a 35 watt driven at 50 watts.


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## LED61 (Sep 26, 2006)

windstrings said:


> Sorry for being so "unenlightened".. but If I understand you correctly...
> you are saying that when the 50W first came out it was actually a 35watt bulb getting hit with a 50 watt ballast which in turn shortened the bulbs life?
> first of all ... is that correct?
> 
> ...


 
First of all, I want to clarify that my previous post is not intended as a negative opinion of the products. Note that I clearly stated that "5200 lumen output was successfuly achieved". That meaning there is nothing wrong in running the 35 watt bulb at 50 watt using proper ballasts. 
The real issue there is the quality of the components--especially lamps and ballasts-- used in a system. I have seen Dan´s products in the website and I am impressed and I am sure his components are top quality. The simple fact his products are used in the aircraft industry speaks volumes about the good quality and reliability.
It is too bad I missed out on the GB for his XeRay 50 watt, as I was not yet a member of this forum, but I´ll be the first to jump in when and if he decides to run another one.


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

XeRay said:


> HID is not incandescent so power does not have the same effect. When 35 watt D2 HID bulbs are first started in automotive application they see over 100 watts. They are overdriven to accelerate warm up. A 35 watt bulb is very capable of being run long term at 50 watts, the life is derated (shortened) by about 30%. When considering the bulb life at 35 watts being near 3000 hours this is an acceptable trade-off especially for this application.
> 
> The wattages of the bulbs are established for certain life ratings. The bulb we use for 75 watts can be run much higher (80-100W) than that but would require suplemental cooling to maintain life. Our 75 watt bulb gets similar life to a 35 watt driven at 50 watts.



Thanks for the info... "you must be Dan?"..
So can you tell me simply... the existing Xevision spotlight that is available in the 50W version... what are you getting when you buy it?.. a 50W bulb or a 75W bulb driven at 50watts?


That may answer this next question:
If and when you provide the 75Watt light... I assume it will be the 75watt bulb driven at 75 watts?... or will it be a 50 watt bulb driven at 75 watts?

And while I'm asking.. what is the expected runtime on that 75 watt version?
And since I am intending to buy soon.. do you expect it out soon?

I also am not trying to pin anybody in, I think communication "the beauty of this forum" is the key way to stamp out misunderstandings and shed light!

I just want to make an informed buy and know what the lifetime bulb expectancy will be based on my choice as well as runtime.

People obviously have different needs and budgets.

*I appreciate the availability of aircraft lights in a spot light!

*Some will buy it for the extreme reliability and others will buy it for sheer performance.
I've seen people buy those lasers and immediately start trying to tweak them to make them stronger without regard to lessening the life.. others wouldn't dare as the life is important.... especially if you want to maintain the quality over time to make the money worth it.


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## LuxLuthor (Sep 26, 2006)

Most of the information you are asking is on his website here about the 50W model, and the bulb used for both the 35 & 50W models.

The Barn Burner is using a 75W ballast to drive the Philips DL-50 bulb...so I think what Dan is saying is that you should not be thinking of it strictly in terms of Watts applied, because it also depends on the quality of the bulb.

He said in another thread that you would not want to use a 50W ballast to drive the Philips DL-50 (50W) bulb, because it needs the higher balllast to work optimally. Conversely, using a 75 W ballast would be too strong for the GE 4200K D2S bulb that comes in the 35 or 50W HID lights.


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## XeRay (Sep 26, 2006)

QUOTE=windstrings Thanks for the info... "you must be Dan?"..
So can you tell me simply... the existing Xevision spotlight that is available in the 50W version... what are you getting when you buy it?.. a 50W bulb or a 75W bulb driven at 50watts? *GE 35 watt bulb driven 50 watts, GE performs better than all other 35 watt bulbs (Philips or Osram) at 50 watts, it is also 15% more expensive. 50 watt bulb cost 3X as much, not economical for added life.*


That may answer this next question:
If and when you provide the 75Watt light... I assume it will be the 75watt bulb driven at 75 watts?... or will it be a 50 watt bulb driven at 75 watts? *It is a bulb designed to be run at 50/75 and higher wattages given proper operational perameters.*

And while I'm asking.. what is the expected runtime on that 75 watt version? *The run time is about 60 minutes.*
And since I am intending to buy soon.. do you expect it out soon? *It was sold in a groupbuy but public release is TBD.*

I also am not trying to pin anybody in, I think communication "the beauty of this forum" is the key way to stamp out misunderstandings and shed light!

I just want to make an informed buy and know what the lifetime bulb expectancy will be based on my choice as well as runtime.

People obviously have different needs and budgets.

*I appreciate the availability of aircraft lights in a spot light!*

Some will buy it for the extreme reliability and others will buy it for sheer performance.
I've seen people buy those lasers and immediately start trying to tweak them to make them stronger without regard to lessening the life.. others wouldn't dare as the life is important.... especially if you want to maintain the quality over time to make the money worth it./QUOTE


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

Wow.. sorry I missed the groupbuy too... presently, I see the 35 and 50 watt versions cost exactly the same price.

What should I expect from the 75 watt version?


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## XeRay (Sep 26, 2006)

$1,200.00 less CPF discount $100 = $1,100.00


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

XeRay said:


> $1,200.00 less CPF discount $100 = $1,100.00



Thanks for all your open and honest answers.. it definatley leaves me scratching my head

since the 50W version is set up the way it is, it would be a nice feature if you could use it in 35 watt mode most of the time to conserve battery and simply flip a switch to go to 50W search mode... 

Most want the hand of Thor in thier palm, but on more of a practicle level, its nice to have awesome battery life if you don't need all the candlepower.

I have seen one light with a "pilot courtesy light" which activates a bright LED which pulls almost no power, then you can switch to high to activate the HID when needed.

The practicality of such a feature is that you can go on long ventures hikeing at night, fishing or whatever and not worry about the light burning out before the night is over, yet you still have the awesome canon ability when your really seaching for something "half a mile away!".. ha ha!

I really think many people defer and don't buy the light because its just not practicle for normal use... so if you can make it do both, you take away that arguement and they end up with a light for normal light duty use as well as "show off mode".

I think I would have no stuggle in my mind about getting the 50W version if it would toggle between 50 and 35.


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## LED61 (Sep 26, 2006)

Sorry Windstrings, at present technology does not permit same ballast to supply different stable voltages for different wattages. Insofar as I am concerned that is, I might be wrong. Oh wait, I may be wrong.....I recall some ballasts do allow this. Hmmm, yea i think some ballasts do this type of thing.


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

LED61 said:


> Sorry Windstrings, at present technology does not permit same ballast to supply different stable voltages for different wattages. Insofar as I am concerned that is, I might be wrong. Oh wait, I may be wrong.....I recall some ballasts do allow this. Hmmm, yea i think some ballasts do this type of thing.



Well, I guess my angle is that if your getting 50 watts from hitting a 35 watt harder.. why not just run it normal and then hit it harder upon command?

There are lights out there that do that... The "Rayzorbeam for one".. its called a "boost" mode... but I don't know if they way they do it is crap or quality..

One the other hand if the light possesses a 50 watt bulb, I wouldn't want to run it cooler... just let it run stock to maintain maximum life and runtime.. but then have the "option" to kick it higher to 75 watts when desired rather than overdrive it constantly.

With this choice, one does not have to feel he is sacrificing life for power.. if the power is ran stock and only applied when really needed or desired the lifespan would be shortened only very neglible.

Looks like I might have found my answer from an old post of the prior group buy:


> The ballast fits in the same space as the 50 watt. The battery pack will be 3-4 cells larger. We will offer an upgrade kit for those interested so that you can reuse the basic unit for 50 watt or 75 watt operation.


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

XeRay said:


> $1,200.00 less CPF discount $100 = $1,100.00



Is this with the extended battery to give the 75 watt more time?


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## lasercrazy (Sep 26, 2006)

The extended battery couldn't be added because the ballast needed a heat sink on the bottom instead. Dan said a separate external pack may available eventually.


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## windstrings (Sep 27, 2006)

"Speewwwuuuu".. thats the sound of my bubble being bursted


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## XeRay (Oct 10, 2006)

I guess I need to set the record straight. No matter what we decide long term, we will provide support to our past customers.

We need to decide to get in this "torch" business in a bigger way or provide the ballast system to others who make the finished product. 

If we are going to make a "torch" we need to do it on a "clean sheet of paper" and do it right. Or help others do it better using our technologies.


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## BVH (Oct 10, 2006)

Windstrings, just a few thoughts of mine on the life of the lamps. Dropping from 3000 hours of life to 2000 hours of lamp life would, in all practicality, not be noticed by most people except those using their lights most every day for multiple hours each day. For your own impact, do the math using the numbers applicable to you. If you would use the light for one hour every day of the year, (I would guess many of us would use it less than half this amount) then the lamp would theoretically last for about 5.5 years instead of 8 years. Yes, I know lamp life is probably also affected by how many strikes it goes through - but this is a rough estimate, not science. In 5.5 years, I would guess there is little chance you'll still even own the light. You will probably have sold it long ago and upgraded to the newest 200 Watt light about the size of a Surefire L4. So in this example, overdriving the lamp has zero affect on your overall costs to buy and operate the light. Your mileage may vary!


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## windstrings (Oct 10, 2006)

BVH said:


> Windstrings, just a few thoughts of mine on the life of the lamps. Dropping from 3000 hours of life to 2000 hours of lamp life would, in all practicality, not be noticed by most people except those using their lights most every day for multiple hours each day. For your own impact, do the math using the numbers applicable to you. If you would use the light for one hour every day of the year, (I would guess many of us would use it less than half this amount) then the lamp would theoretically last for about 5.5 years instead of 8 years. Yes, I know lamp life is probably also affected by how many strikes it goes through - but this is a rough estimate, not science. In 5.5 years, I would guess there is little chance you'll still even own the light. You will probably have sold it long ago and upgraded to the newest 200 Watt light about the size of a Surefire L4. So in this example, overdriving the lamp has zero affect on your overall costs to buy and operate the light. Your mileage may vary!



I agree, some people buy spare bulbs.. then they have to keep up with it and not break it till the fine day they actually need it.. I just saw that as a good alternative.
I hate to have any more loose ends than I have to have. 
There are advantages both ways... upgradeability to 75 watts would be more painful if you actually had "spare" 35 watters too.


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## frogs3 (Oct 11, 2006)

Dear Flashaholics,

It has been 20 days since I have bought a light...Oh, I'm sorry, that is for my therapy group that doesn't seem to be helping.

This thread is interesting because I have lights at either end of the HID spectrum, and can say with certainty that if I had it to do again, I would just get the 75 watt BB. For my needs, a longer runtime than 60 minutes is not essential, and I have never carried the spare battery for the X990 when I go out walking or pacing the back yard looking for the critters that interest me off in the distance.

I did the math on bulb life, and found that I too will be using a much different light by the time that it becomes important, but having said that, I have a spare in the event that too many strikes shortens its life more than expected.

I depend on and trust the good engineering of XeVision, as you have read above, and take joy in the light weight for such a powerful unit. Careful reading before buying was essential.

My real problems with the BB are avoiding pointing it where it could get me an unwanted chat with the local police or neighbors. Even with the beam narrowed down, the penumbra caused one car yesterday to flash its highbeams at me, until the genius realized that I was on the SIDEWALK, and off to his right (in America we don't drive on the left, usually). I resisted the powerful urge to show the idiot MY highbeams, but did not do so, as that could have created real trouble.

So, in summary, I suggest buying the light that has the output, weight, runtime, etc. that you either need or want, and research the manufacturer beforehand so you trust how it is constructed and designed. FWIW, I have seen little value in switching between various wattages within the same unit, and prefer to just stick with the 75, and avoid one layer of complexity that does not serve my needs. Knowledge is power. That is how I made my decision, and so far, it seems to be one that suits me well.

Each to his/her own.

Caveat emptor,

Harvey K.


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## windstrings (Oct 11, 2006)

I would love to have a light that would go from 35 watts/150min runtime to 75/60.
I think the best I can hope for will be the 50/95min with option to switch to the 75w/60min.

I hope if that option comes out, there will be kits to retrofit to our units.
When your spending that much money on a light.. it would be really nice to have one that does it all.. "or almost".
Buying 35 - 50.00 penlights is one thing if you want to try every new light that pops up on the market, but these lights run into serious money.
The Xevision seems to be the most upgradable/and easy to work on based on what I've read.
The only negative is that the battery takes a little practice to change quickly in the field.

Thats one reason I trust Xevision, they just don't throw a product out there and forget it until someone else comes out with better, but they are always outdoing themselves and upgrading... even if there is no competition!

It takes a real spirit of excellence to compete against yourself!


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