# Make my Led Lenser P7 better?



## Art (Dec 31, 2008)

Hi,
Im a noob to flash lights and specially to its electronics but I would like to know if I can make my Led Lenser P7 use a P7 led and possibly make it have regulated output.
The idea is to have a better light for more throw and possible better runtime.

Any ideas? Will it be difficult to dissipate the heat of a P7 led? Where can I buy it?

Also , can I do a simple mod so I can pump out of a stock LL P7 led like 50% more(even if it burns after some hours)?

Regards and happy new year :twothumbs

Edit: Lets forget the P7 idea... any help on modding this light?


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## Art (Jan 4, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*

Nothing? 
Not even an idea for a led swap?

Regards,


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## Gunner12 (Jan 4, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*

First off the Seoul P7 LED probably won't fit in the optic designed for the Cree XR-E LED.

Then you won't get more throw since the P7 has 4x the emitting area of the current LED in the LL P7. Think 4 Seoul P4s wired in parallel in a single package.

It won't be a simple mod.


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## Fallingwater (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*

The P7 runs on four AAAs. There is no way in hell you're going to be able to run a quad-die LED such as a SSC P7 at anything close to full power (or even half for that matter) from four AAAs.

You could presumably mod the light with an aftermarket driver and drive the existing LED harder, but again the problem is in the power source: four AAAs have too little energy combined to give decent runtimes at high current draw.

The easiest, cheapest and definitely least stressful path if you want something more powerful is to head over to dealextreme and find yo'self a powerful light for not much money.


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## clg0159 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Fallingwater said:


> The P7 runs on four AAAs. There is no way in hell you're going to be able to run a quad-die LED such as a SSC P7 at anything close to full power (or even half for that matter) from four AAAs.
> 
> You could presumably mod the light with an aftermarket driver and drive the existing LED harder, but again the problem is in the power source: four AAAs have too little energy combined to give decent runtimes at high current draw.
> 
> The easiest, cheapest and definitely least stressful path if you want something more powerful is to head over to dealextreme and find yo'self a powerful light for not much money.


 +1
This light is simply not an acceptable host for a P7


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## Art (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*

I could run 4x li-ion... that would make 4x 3,7v... will it work?
I understand that the P7 led is too big but is there any led that I could change?

Another simple mod will be probably to change the "diode"(is this correct) for the maximum that already give 130%... I could do a mod there for like 200% ?

The idea is that this torch has so much throw that I dont want anything bigger than this and I dont see any like for sale that has better throw then this (probably the new TK11 R2).

Regards,


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## Gunner12 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*

The problem about AAA batteries is not the voltage, its the capacity. The capacity is too low so the high current that the LED will draw will drop the voltage of the batteries, resulting in less output(though still more then before) and much less runtime. The single die highpower LED is already pushing the batteries pretty hard.


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## Fallingwater (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Art said:


> I could run 4x li-ion... that would make 4x 3,7v... will it work?


Strictly speaking, even your current configuration will *work* if you change driver - just not very well. LiIon cells have slightly more energy density than NiMH, but not that much, so they wouldn't give you a significant improvement. LiIons are useful in single- or sometimes double-cell lights because they have a higher voltage which allows more efficient/powerful emitters, but four NiMH AAAs in series already have enough voltage for that.



> I understand that the P7 led is too big but is there any led that I could change?


I'm having trouble getting information about this light; it seems to use some sort of generic high-flux LED. If that's the case you could get a slight improvement by swapping in a Cree or SSC, but that would require a lot of work and possibly custom parts, and you could still end up with a broken light that doesn't work, parts that can't be put together in any decent way, and a lot of frustration.

My original suggestion still stands: keep your P7 as it is, and get another light with a powerful emitter.



> Another simple mod will be probably to change the "diode"(is this correct) for the maximum that already give 130%... I could do a mod there for like 200% ?


...huh?



> The idea is that this torch has so much throw that I dont want anything bigger than this and I dont see any like for sale that has better throw then this (probably the new TK11 R2).


Not to insult your light, but any flashlight with a decent driver, Cree Q5 or R2 emitter and smooth reflector is very likely to out-throw your P7 by *a lot*.


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## Art (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Fallingwater said:


> Strictly speaking, even your current configuration will *work* if you change driver - just not very well. LiIon cells have slightly more energy density than NiMH, but not that much, so they wouldn't give you a significant improvement. LiIons are useful in single- or sometimes double-cell lights because they have a higher voltage which allows more efficient/powerful emitters, but four NiMH AAAs in series already have enough voltage for that.
> 
> 
> I'm having trouble getting information about this light; it seems to use some sort of generic high-flux LED. If that's the case you could get a slight improvement by swapping in a Cree or SSC, but that would require a lot of work and possibly custom parts, and you could still end up with a broken light that doesn't work, parts that can't be put together in any decent way, and a lot of frustration.
> ...



Well , as you all know the LL P7 has no regulation , it has drop resistors to make the the minimum and max work. The idea would be to change the resistor for more power. I read that some users have changed the order of the resistors so it gets 130% in normal mode.
Would it be that difficult to change the resistor to get like 150% or 180% more light/power?

About having better throwers... what light do you suggest? I saw some testes and this light was always one of the best for that.

The thing is that I have one spare P7 to mod... thats way Im insisting on using this light 

Regards,


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## Fallingwater (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Art said:


> Well , as you all know the LL P7 has no regulation , it has drop resistors to make the the minimum and max work. The idea would be to change the resistor for more power. I read that some users have changed the order of the resistors so it gets 130% in normal mode.
> Would it be that difficult to change the resistor to get like 150% or 180% more light/power?


Not difficult, provided you had the appropriate resistors, but inadvisable. Driving the LED harder would probably overdrive it; if the heatsink isn't meant to take the increased heat, you might fry the LED.



> About having better throwers... what light do you suggest? I saw some testes and this light was always one of the best for that.


What size are you interested in? Must it be carryable in a pocket, or everything's good as long as it doesn't require a truck to move? 



> The thing is that I have one spare P7 to mod... thats way Im insisting on using this light


Give it to someone as a present.


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## Art (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Fallingwater said:


> Not difficult, provided you had the appropriate resistors, but inadvisable. Driving the LED harder would probably overdrive it; if the heatsink isn't meant to take the increased heat, you might fry the LED.
> 
> 
> What size are you interested in? Must it be carryable in a pocket, or everything's good as long as it doesn't require a truck to move?
> ...



Well , I dont want anything bigger then the P7...its probably my limit for a light.

To give it as a present ... its a 70€ light and Im not rich (yet :devil.

So , lets make it simple now... how to make it better? More light?

Regards,

P.S.About the comparison... a TK11 has 11000flux and the P7 has 14500... probably the TK11 R2 is closer but havent seen tests yet.


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## Gunner12 (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*

Can you measure how much current is going to the LED, also a picture of the inside of the light could help too(to see if there is enough heatsinking to push the LED further).


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## Art (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Gunner12 said:


> Can you measure how much current is going to the LED, also a picture of the inside of the light could help too(to see if there is enough heatsinking to push the LED further).




There was a post here of all the light parts... and actually a X-ray of the light... I will search and measure the current going to the led(is this in ma or v ? I dont know that much about eletrics.)

Regards,


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## Fallingwater (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Art said:


> To give it as a present ... its a 70€ light


WHAT?!

Unregulated, resistored, AAA-driven and it costs seventy euro?!
Man, talk about overpriced... they seriously ripped you off.



> So , lets make it simple now... how to make it better? More light?


Crack it open and post a picture of the emitter. I've googled a bit and it seems it indeed uses a Cree LED (unless there is an older version with a different kind of emitter and you have that).
If it doesn't use a Cree, swapping one in (but a SSC might be better due to beam artefacts) will probably make it significantly brighter.

If it does have a Cree, you're going to have to measure how much current flows to the LED. Unsolder one of the leads and connect it to one of the two probes of a multimeter. Connect the other probe of the multimeter to the LED contact. Switch the multimeter to current mode and turn the light on. Write down the reading. 

You need this because we don't know how hard the LED is driven from the flashlight in stock form. For all we know it might be near overheating already.

If the current turns out to be safe with the heatsink in the head, then you'll need to change the resistor(s) to allow more current to pass. Google "LED calculator" and you'll find a utility that'll tell you what kind of resistor you need.


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## 1dash1 (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Fallingwater said:


> Not to insult your light, but any flashlight with a decent driver, Cree Q5 or R2 emitter and smooth reflector is very likely to out-throw your P7 by *a lot*.


 
No insult taken, but I beg to disagree. 

On fresh batteries, my P7 outthrows every flashlight I have (including a Tiablo A9 running on 18650), except for one - a 3D Maglite with Q5 upgrade plus an aspheric lens. 

_I can't say what happens after say 15 minutes, I haven't done any comparison tests on run-down batteries. :shrug:_


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## 1dash1 (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



Fallingwater said:


> Unregulated, resistored, AAA-driven and it costs seventy euro?!
> Man, talk about overpriced... they seriously ripped you off.


 
I don't think so. Like Surefires, you have to examine one to appreciate how well built it is. The threading, the toolwork, and the components are very well manufactured. It's a pleasure just to slide a battery into the battery holder - so smooth and with such a nice "click".

What it lacks is sophistication. It doesn't lack quality.

In my humble opinion, of course.


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## d1dd1 (Jan 6, 2009)

Here are 2 threads from a german forum with lots of information, pics and beamshots
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=61252
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=59726

You could use google to translate them.

The optic in this light seems not that good, compared to the DX X2000 lights with aspheric lens it seems that you loose some light with this optic of the P7.

The cheapest price for the LL P7 I found was 45€


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## Fallingwater (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*



1dash1 said:


> On fresh batteries, my P7 outthrows every flashlight I have (including a Tiablo A9 running on 18650), except for one - a 3D Maglite with Q5 upgrade plus an aspheric lens.


Well obviously if you throw an aspheric lens in the equation you can get significant throw out of even a Luxeon, but then the light can't really be used for anything that doesn't require extreme throw.

Aaanyway, based on this pic, the emitter (which is indeed a Cree) is perched atop a very thin "tower" of metal that lets heat flow in the actual heatsink.
This is not a very efficient system. I wouldn't increase power to the LED if I were you.


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## 1dash1 (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: Make my Led Lenser P7 a real P7?*

deleted


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## 1dash1 (Jan 6, 2009)

d1dd1 said:


> The optic in this light seems not that good, compared to the DX X2000 lights with aspheric lens it seems that you loose some light with this optic of the P7.


 
I've got a LLP7 and an X2000. The X2000 functions surprisingly well for a budget light. I hadn't thought about it, but you may be right regarding the lens. 




> The cheapest price for the LL P7 I found was 45€


In that case, 70€ is overpriced! :devil:


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## Art (Jan 6, 2009)

Thanks for the help , I will put here tomorow some info I have at work about this light.

About all the work to do , is there a problem to run the led to hard for like 5mins? I only want to change the momentary mode to like 200% (I know these are stupid numbers but you understand) and the normal 100% to the current momentary mode of 130%.

How long could I use it before really damaging the led?

About the price.. its the usual thing.. when you sell it has a price.. to buy it it has another. 70€ is actually a good price , they come from dealers at 28€ now without taxes... 70 is with shipping taxes and the dealer "part"  But forget this part.

Will try to test the light now.

Regards,


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## Art (Jan 6, 2009)

Here is a foto (thanks d1dd1) from the head and led:







Can I connect the multimeter on the red and black cable to read the current? I see probably some parts where I can connect it...
But what Im I reading? 

I have here my multimeter... (hope you dont make fun of me for being so noob in this) should I turn it to Amps? 20m ?  

Help! :thinking:


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## Fallingwater (Jan 6, 2009)

Art said:


> About all the work to do , is there a problem to run the led to hard for like 5mins? I only want to change the momentary mode to like 200% (I know these are stupid numbers but you understand) and the normal 100% to the current momentary mode of 130%.


It *might* not damage the LED if it was attached directly to the heatsink, but with that thin metal stalk there, and assuming the light already drives it at something approaching its rated power, 200% would most likely be way too much.



> How long could I use it before really damaging the led?


Take current readings and we'll be able to tell you, but don't expect good news.



Art said:


> Can I connect the multimeter on the red and black cable to read the current?


No, that's how you read voltage. Connect black and red with the meter in current mode and you'll short everything.

You need to do the following:

1) unsolder from the LED either of the two wires while leaving the other one connected. In your place I'd unsolder the black one, because if the red one touches the body of the light it'd most likely short out (most light bodies are grounded to negative).
2) put the multimeter in current mode. You need to find the A settings (for Amperes); there are likely two or three settings (may require you to move the cables on the meter), and you might have AC current mode on the meter. You want DC mode, which is represented by a symbol like this (as opposed to AC current, which has this symbol and is useless to you right now).
Your meter most likely has a settings for milliamps (probably the "20m" you mentioned) and either one or two settings for higher figures, typically a 1A or 2A setting (possibly a 200mA as well).
You need to place it on the highest setting, which is going to be 1A or 2A, or maybe 10A for particularly versatile meters. Carefully look at the probe connections on the meter - it's likely you have to switch the positive lead to another connection, typically the one that reads "UNFUSED" with a big fat warning sign nearby.
3) turn on the multimeter
4) turn on the light. This being a simple resistored design, you don't have to worry about running drivers unloaded.
5) connect one probe to the wire you unsoldered, the other on the solder tab on the LED itself. Be careful not to bump the lens on the LED: if bumped hard enough it could detach ruining the emitter.
6) as soon as the circuit is completed the emitter should light up, and you should get a reading on the multimeter's display, something like 0.7 or 0.75. Be sure to have a steady connection inbetween the probes and the contacts; if the number on the meter keeps changing, it means you need a better connection (you might need jumper wires).
6) switch the light to low mode; the value should now change to a much lower number.
7) turn everything off, solder the black wire back on the LED.

You now have the current values. Post them here. 

By the way, you *are* using NiMH cells in this light, right? You're not running it on alkalines, I hope?


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## Art (Jan 7, 2009)

Yes Im ussing 1000mah Nimh cells.

I just took the P7 apart and got to the point of that foto up on the topic.

I was now reading carrefully your info and I have a question , cant I do that without unsolder the wires?

Since they are so exposed what would be the difference between testing like you said and without unsolder the wire?

I think I undestand how to do it , I just dont want to unsolder anything (not lasy just scared to kill the led).

Regards,


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## Art (Jan 7, 2009)

Without unsolder I cant read anything 

Did Voltage reading and it was 2.7v in low and 3.4v in high..

Will I really need to unsolder the wires? 

Regards, and thanks for the help , keep it coming!


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## Fallingwater (Jan 7, 2009)

You need to open the circuit to measure current, and then close it again with the multimeter in series. The only other way to measure current is using a hall effect clamp meter, but those are very expensive.
You won't ruin the LED just by soldering and unsoldering the wire if you don't leave the tip of the iron on the contacts for a really long time. If you're unsure, read one of the many soldering FAQs available online and then have a go at it.

Edit: you could also cut the wire, strip the extremities and measure from them, but then you'd need to solder it back together, and I'm not sure if there's enough leeway in your wires to allow for that.


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## Art (Jan 8, 2009)

Did not have time to do anything today.
But from the voltage reading cant it help?

Another thing I was thinking , I cant see where to open the rest of the torch... to get to the "resistors" :|
Any help?

It was already difficult to open this part...

Regards,


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## drillbritz2ov (Jan 29, 2009)

hello gotta led lenser p 7 myself the resistors are built into the switch you have to unscrew the battery clip from the tail cap switch to reveal the switch itself its a square case with 4 screws holding it together undo the screws to reveal resistors .ok


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## ruf9ii (Sep 17, 2009)

gee, so much effort. 
just use the p7 as a secondary torch, bust your a$$ and work a couple extra shifts and get a cheap, high powered one...


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## don.gwapo (Feb 7, 2010)

*Led lenser P7 as candle light.*

For those who have a led lenser p7 and don't know how to make it a candle light just like mini maglite. 

Here's how:

First, unscrew the top half of the head, then slide the bottom half all the way down and remove it from the body.

Next, screw the top and bottom head together and there you go. You already have a base. All you need to is put the body into the base and you have a candle light similar to the mini maglite.

This would probably work on other led lenser model too.


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## Kevbodian (Feb 9, 2010)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*



don.gwapo said:


> For those who have a led lenser p7 and don't know how to make it a candle light just like mini maglite.
> 
> Here's how:
> 
> ...


 
I have no idea what you just said.


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## don.gwapo (Feb 11, 2010)

The way you make the maglite as candle is the same way with the P7.


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## endreein (Feb 25, 2010)

my led lenser t7 did 0.75 A and 5.5-5.3 v at tailcap on nimh's


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## gcbryan (Feb 25, 2010)

Just to state the obvious to the OP, if you can't desolder the led to test for current how are you going to do the modifications you are asking about?


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## Egsise (Feb 25, 2010)

Sell that LL P7 and buy something brighter or easier to modify with the money.


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## boo5ted (Apr 16, 2010)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*



don.gwapo said:


> For those who have a led lenser p7 and don't know how to make it a candle light just like mini maglite.
> 
> Here's how:
> 
> ...



I works for my T7. 



Kevbodian said:


> I have no idea what you just said.



What he meant was this.

First, unscrew the top half of the head







Slide the bottom half all the way down and remove it from the body







Screw the top and bottom head together







You already have a base, put the body into the base and you have a candle light













Done.


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## FireWire (Jul 8, 2013)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*

hi i have a P7 and it runs out way to fast. My Fenix LD41 is a great out door torch. I would likt to make my P7 regulated. Has anyone or know of anyone who has done it? Could you suggest how to do it?

My thoughts
1 
Get a dc to dc regulator, i think a 6v to 6v?

2
Where can i find one small enough to fit in a P7, where would it go inside the P7?

3
Perhaps i can fit one that's aaa battery size into the battery carrier, would it cause regulated to happen? Maybe it needs to be wetween the torch and carrier contacts?

Thank you


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## FireWire (Jul 9, 2013)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*

I have found this site selling a voltage regulator. Is this what I need ?
http://mobile.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=8067

Why the 3 legs? Do I connect two to a positive and one to a negative, on the battery carrier's positive and negative ?

thank you


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## Chodes (Jul 10, 2013)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*



FireWire said:


> I have found this site selling a voltage regulator. Is this what I need ?
> http://mobile.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=8067
> 
> Why the 3 legs? Do I connect two to a positive and one to a negative, on the battery carrier's positive and negative ?
> ...



I don't know enough to provide really good answer.
I do know enough to say forget that!

"capable of supplying 100mA" You will need 5 - 10 times that current.

EDIT: read a bit more "or 1.5A (Order Codes UF27E and N61CA) " 
get the dta sheet. See under the details on that link "These voltage regulators are exceptionally easy to use and require only 2 external reistors to set the output voltage."

So you need room to squeeze 2 resistors in as well.
This is a voltage regulator. Current regulators are suitable for LEDs.


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## peterkin101 (Jul 11, 2013)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*

I used to own an Led Lenser P14. Whilst it was perfectly good it lacked a regulated power supply leading to wildly varying results. This was due to discharge characteristics of whatever batteries I was using at the time. IMHO your P7 is too fussy to mod properly-too much effort for too little change. If you aren't happy (I HATE saying this...) you need to look elsewhere.


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## FireWire (Jul 13, 2013)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*

Hi
Thanks for the advice. I have decided its a mainly indoor torch (flashlight). Maybe up to 2hours reasonable light before need to replace the batteries, on the high mode. 

So what torch did you change your P14 to? I have the LD41 for outdoors. 

Ps I have a question. Can I just buy a 3xAA holder and have a positive and negative wire from each connector, that goes to the inside f the led lender? Why are there 3 connectors? Which one is positive and negative


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## FireWire (Jul 16, 2013)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*

thank you for all you help you are really nice ))


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## FireWire (Jul 16, 2013)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*

so if i was to use the product : N61CA on the maplin.co.uk website,
Q1 which 2 resistors would i need?
Any pics or references to show how to do it?
I just had a thought, u said its a voltage regulator not a current regulator, is this thing I'm looking at a dc to dc voltage regulator so I get a consistent brightness till the battery finishes ?
Q2
if i connect a 4x AA battery holder with a positive and negative wire, to the area where the gold connectors go to in the tube behind the head:
what part is positive and negative on the inside of the tube, behind the head?
e.g 
http://www.reuk.co.uk/buy-4-AA-BATTERY-HOLDER.htm


ps 
it maybe just too much effort as we been advised earlier, so one last question... 
Q3
how long do you think the P7 would last on 1000mAh nmih batteries at the peak brightness? 3 hours? 5 hours?



Thank you


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## FireWire (Jul 17, 2013)

*Re: Led lenser P7 as candle light.*

IMPORTANT..


I only unscrewed the back of the torch (flash light) like you would replace batteries, that's it.

I got a 4 AA battery holder and have connected it to the LED Lenser P7. The Positive red wire goes to the CENTRE connector. The NEGATIVE black wire goes to the OUTER CIRCLE SHAPE CONNECTOR, just behind the focus head. 

Its running Direct Drive, so thats the full 200 Lumens. Feels warm but i'll see it its ok. Can only last me maybe 2.5 hours max. So once brightness begins to dip its usless to me, so i'll stop using it.

Led Lenser need to make a wider tube and the option of sliding in a longer battery holder which can be AA. 

Thank you


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