# Surefire Counterfeits???



## jac2001 (Jan 31, 2009)

Anybody aware of anyone trying to pass off counterfiet Surefire's on ebay? Never dealt with ebay before. Picked up a C2 Centurion BK for $66 shipped. (Malkoff's new home!!!)
Just hoping I haven't gotten ripped! 

Here is a link to another C2 offered by the same seller....
http://cgi.ebay.com/Surefire-Hi-Out...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

Thanks

Jay


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## DaFABRICATA (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

Your good..

Not many Surefire clones...but there are some..I believe some chinese manf. have produced them and they usually sell at Kia/DX if I'm not mistaken...most seem to be a rip-off of the U2.


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## jac2001 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

Thanks for the reassurance! Most of these online run about $110 or better, so wanted to make sure I wasn't getting hurt!!


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## Illum (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

DaFABRICATA, the counterfeit U2 is the first that the forum recognized and someone have had the opportunity to review it...from that review it became well known that China can copy the design well enough to look like real Surefires. Supposedly the 6P was the second, but I can't find any info that I can back it up with 

It seems to be the general rule [as reinforced by DM51] that pictures of, or threads relating to, or pertaining thereof be posted elsewhere..like the underground.

I've been trying to draw attention to the awareness of counterfeit surefires on the forum, but my posts have been modified or removed [thankfully by request, not forcefully] for some sort of forum violation. I don't question the rules, if thats what it is, no be it. 

there is a link in Safe to get a SF M2 from Ebay? that shows what a fake M2 looks like


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## Marduke (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

I've seen counterfeit U2's and M2's, but the rest (so far) have just been clones, not counterfeits.


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## flip (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

I seem to remember seeing a Surefire weaponlight (M951 maybe) clone on Ebay back in December. The add heading had Surefire but the add said it was made in China and I think it said it was a Surefire plant there that made it.


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## hurricane (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

Yup ... the SureFire U2 was the common one. It of course didn't operate like a SureFire U2, but certainly looked like one. There's a warning about them here: http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/surefire_u2.htm


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## kaichu dento (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*



Marduke said:


> I've seen counterfeit U2's and M2's, but the rest (so far) have just been clones, not counterfeits.


What would be the difference between the fakes and the clones? 

I just got an E2E I paid $50 for the other day and I'm sure it's a fake, mostly because it feels and appears different in color than any other Surefire I've seen, although the only other Surefires I have are an L1 and a Titan.


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## Gunner12 (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

Can you get a picture of the E2E?

There seems to be some Surefire clones but few full out Counterfiets(if you don't count eBay liars). There is the M2, U2, and M3 or M4 I think was also counterfeited. IIRC the M3 or M4 counterfeit had pretty good quality but it's still a counterfeit nonetheless.

Many lights seem to use a similar design or shape to a Surefire but that is usually the only design similarity(besides using a metal as the body and CR123s).


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## kaichu dento (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

I just looked for it and couldn't find it but I'll try again later tonight. I need to find who I got it from and talk to him about returning it too! 

All the writing looks good and body shape, knurling, but there is just something wrong about it.


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## nzgunnie (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*



kaichu dento said:


> , but there is just something wrong about it.



What?


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## Marduke (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*



kaichu dento said:


> What would be the difference between the fakes and the clones?



A fake is branded and marked identical to the real article, in an attempt to make the buyer think they are buying the genuine article. A clone is a light which looks very similar, but is branded under another name. It is obviously bought with the original in mind, but is in no way trying to pretend to be as such.

The SolarForce L2 is a good example of a clone, but is in no way a "fake". A fauxton is another good example of a clone.


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## tebore (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

I remember seeing a really good counterfeit of a M3 or was it M4. It was really good, the anno and the thread was SF quality. The only way to know it was a Fake was two lights had the exact serial number.

EDIT: Found the thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173001


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## kaichu dento (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*



Marduke said:


> A fake is branded and marked identical to the real article, in an attempt to make the buyer think they are buying the genuine article. A clone is a light which looks very similar, but is branded under another name. It is obviously bought with the original in mind, but is in no way trying to pretend to be as such.
> 
> The SolarForce L2 is a good example of a clone, but is in no way a "fake". A fauxton is another good example of a clone.


In that case I either have a fake or am not very familiar with Surefire because my L1 reeks of quality and the E2E I just got is lacking all that and some. The only place it comes through is nice warm incan tint and if it is indeed a fake, they did a good job of it. I'll try to find it later and get a couple pics for you guys to see.


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## DM51 (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*



Marduke said:


> A fake [counterfeit] is branded and marked identical to the real article, in an attempt to make the buyer think they are buying the genuine article. A clone is a light which looks very similar, but is branded under another name. It is obviously bought with the original in mind, but is in no way trying to pretend to be as such.


That is a fair way to describe the difference (I have added the word [counterfeit] in that quote).

As to forum policy, there is no prohibition on the discussion of counterfeit items as long as this is intended as a warning to members to beware of them. If discussion instead turns to promotion of these items by way of links or other material, that is when consideration will be given to closing it down.


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## TMedina (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

If you're concerned, you can always contact SF and check that serial number.

-Trevor


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## jac2001 (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

I really like 'real' Surefires. Never had anything but 'real' Surefires when it comes to them.... Never dealt with ebay before, and have heard horror stories. So just wanted to see if there were any C2 fakes running around, so I could be on look out when it got here. 

Thanks trevor, I may check it with Surefire customer when it gets here if it seems suspect!


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## sappyg (Feb 1, 2009)

jac2001 said:


> Anybody aware of anyone trying to pass off counterfiet Surefire's on ebay? Never dealt with ebay before. Picked up a C2 Centurion BK for $66 shipped. (Malkoff's new home!!!)
> Just hoping I haven't gotten ripped!


 
i've bought a few SF's on ebay and they were all good. what i try to look for is that the seller has a 98% or better rating and NIB flashlights. anything less should be treated with more attention.


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## kaichu dento (Feb 1, 2009)

Got the pics of what I think is a fake E2E uploaded, but am still trying to figure out how to show them here from the Photobucket site. I'm going to have to try again after work...


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## Kenpcfl (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*



TMedina said:


> If you're concerned, you can always contact SF and check that serial number.
> 
> -Trevor


 
Do all SureFire's contain individual serial numbers?


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## Monocrom (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*



kaichu dento said:


> What would be the difference between the fakes and the clones?


 
A fake is designed to fool you into thinking you are getting the real McCoy. Fakes will even go so far as to have the Surefire web address printed onto the very top of the metal portion on the tailcap.

A clone simply resembles the real thing. I've seen SF 6P clones that had "CREE" printed across their bodies. Otherwise, they looked just like a real 6P. 

With a clone, you know you're not buying a genuine Surefire. With a fake, you're being cheated out of your money because it was made to make you think it's a genuine Surefire.

*EDIT ~*
** 
Oops! Missed Marduke's earlier post above.


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## Kenpcfl (Feb 2, 2009)

Okay....newbie here.  
I asked this above and no one answered. I'll try again.

Do SureFire lights contain individual serial numbers?


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## seattlite (Feb 2, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Counterfiets???*

Here is a pic of an M972 clone with "full trades":

Bottom light:






Just the body M972 clone body with a PKEF head





Build quality of the KT4 clone head is pretty DANG GOOD. The head isn't compatible with any of the SF Lamp Assemblies, but machining and finish is pretty nice.


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## DM51 (Feb 2, 2009)

Kenpcfl said:


> Do SureFire lights contain individual serial numbers?


Yes


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## sappyg (Feb 2, 2009)

kaichu dento said:


> Got the pics of what I think is a fake E2E uploaded, but am still trying to figure out how to show them here from the Photobucket site. I'm going to have to try again after work...


 
any luck with the fake e2e pics?... i have seen fake aimpoints from ebay that were obviously miss represented but i can't see faking an e2e.... too little demand and a relatively low pricepoint which means less proffit potential.


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## DaFABRICATA (Feb 2, 2009)

I've bought literally hundreds of Surefires from eBay over the years, and have yet to run into a fake.
Then again, I know what to look for.

Looking forward to that E2e pic..


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## kaichu dento (Feb 4, 2009)

sappyg said:


> any luck with the fake e2e pics?... i have seen fake aimpoints from ebay that were obviously miss represented but i can't see faking an e2e.... too little demand and a relatively low pricepoint which means less proffit potential.


It's possible that I'm just not familiar enough with Surefire, but there's a huge difference in perceived quality between the E2E I have and every other Surefire I've seen in the stores, not to mention my L1. 


DaFABRICATA said:


> I've bought literally hundreds of Surefires from eBay over the years, and have yet to run into a fake.
> Then again, I know what to look for.
> 
> Looking forward to that E2e pic..


I'm going to try to find directions right now in getting my Photobucket pics viewable here.


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## MorpheusT1 (Feb 4, 2009)




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## kaichu dento (Feb 4, 2009)

I know this isn't how it's done but at least it should let you see the pics! Don't be too tough on me if it is a genuine SF! 

http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee318/Akami_photos/Fake E2E/


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## cruisemissile (Feb 4, 2009)

nice pics, i'm not an expert, but looks fairly legit.
I've never seen a satin grey one with that head configuration.
most of the satin greys that I've been have teardrop bezel.
I know cuz I own one.
then again, there are manufacturers in china with sophisticated, start of the art equipment that manufacture everything from iPHone clones, to handmade copies of art masterpieces, to luxury watches.




kaichu dento said:


> I know this isn't how it's done but at least it should let you see the pics! Don't be too tough on me if it is a genuine SF!
> 
> http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee318/Akami_photos/Fake E2E/


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## kaichu dento (Feb 4, 2009)

Does the switch and pill look right too?


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## seattlite (Feb 4, 2009)

kaichu dento said:


> I know this isn't how it's done but at least it should let you see the pics! Don't be too tough on me if it is a genuine SF!
> 
> http://s230.photobucket.com/albums/ee318/Akami_photos/Fake E2E/



Looks real to me. Typically some SF clones have the SF logo, but don't usually have the serial number.


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## Sector7 (Feb 4, 2009)

It looks fake to the eye only cause the flats don't look truely flat in the photos. :shrug:


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## Monocrom (Feb 4, 2009)

Looks real to me. If it's fake, it's a damn good one. Surefire does currently sell satin-grey E2E models with that style bezel. They stopped selling the tear-drop bezel on their satin-grey E2Es a long time ago, but never bothered to update the pic on their website.

If it was *my *light, I'd call up Surefire and ask to send the light to them for examination. Politely asking for them to please verifiy if it is indeed a real Surefire.


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## Cosmo7809 (Feb 4, 2009)

Bezel does not look right....


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## kaichu dento (Feb 4, 2009)

There are some machining marks that I'm going to try and get a picture of that look completely out of character to me. I wish I could take a picture of what the light 'feels' like, because I think all SF owners know what I mean when I say there's a certain heft and feeling of quality to every SF light I've ever touched; it's missing here.

If this is truly a SureFire, then I would swear it was made at a different factory than the rest, and the anodizing looks and feels like you could scratch it with your fingernail.


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## Tempest UK (Feb 5, 2009)

Sector7 said:


> It looks fake to the eye only cause the flats don't look truely flat in the photos. :shrug:



If you're referring to the "flat" areas on the sides of the body where the engravings are, then it's not supposed to be flat. E2e bodies have been curved like this for quite some time.

Regards,
Tempest


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## george9c1 (Feb 5, 2009)

Looks genuine to me as well. I know there are some Surefires that have mismatched anodizing, but this one looks worse than usual on the bezel. Is it possible that this is a quality control reject that went out the back door at the factory, maybe sold cheap to an employee?

Don't know if Surefire does that or not, but it would explain why you have a gennie light that doesn't seem up to the usual quality standards.


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## DaFABRICATA (Feb 5, 2009)

That certainly looks like a genuine Surefire to me..
That bezel has been available on the E2e-SG for some time now.

Highly doubt it is fake....

The SG ano is not as robust as the BLK-HAII or the HA natural and does scratch easily. 

If you don't like it sell it to me.
I still need that style.


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## kaichu dento (Feb 5, 2009)

Well I guess I should change the name on the pics then. Like I said the only Surefires I have is a Titan and an L1, but have looked at them in town a lot of times and not being familiar with them the way most of you are thought it was bad.

Thanks to everyone for straightening me out.


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## Size15's (Feb 5, 2009)

It looks like a genuine SureFire to me. Nice to see the curved body panels in that finish. It has an old version of the Clickie TailCap though.



DaFABRICATA said:


> The SG ano is not as robust as the BLK-HAII or the HA natural and does scratch easily.


"BLK-HAII" ??
That's crazy talk! :nana::shakehead
Black = BK
and don't get me started on "HAII" 
That's like saying the anodising is Type III Type II
Or to put it another way Hard Anodised not Hard Anodised.

If it's type III then it is Hard Anodised. There's no need to write HAIII.

If it's type III then it is Hard Anodised. It can't be Type II if it is Hard Anodised!

Al :devil:


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## socom1970 (Feb 5, 2009)

It does look real to me as well and really quite nice. The satin-gray is a beautiful finish. I'd say congratulations on a great purchase.

As for the others who messed up with the HA-Type II talk, knock that stuff off!:whoopin: You people should know by now that regular anodizing is just called Anodizing or Type II and Hard Anodizing (HA) is Type III. Saying "HA-Type II" or "HA-II" is a contradiction (Hard Anodized-Regular Anodized) and saying "HA-III" is redundant and silly (Hard Anodize-Hard Anodize). 


Besides, that sort of nonsense gets Al all riled up...


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## DM51 (Feb 5, 2009)

socom1970 said:


> that sort of nonsense gets Al all riled up...


... and you really don't want to get him all riled up. He starts going around stomping on people. This is what happened during a recent snow-fall:


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