# busse knives are they worth it?



## mossyoak

a friend of mine has one of these and the look well made and hes trying to get me to buy one also would you guys say they are worth the money or not? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif


----------



## ACMarina

If you're trying to decide, check out a Swamp Rat. They're kinda like Busse's production line, if you will. Then, if you like it, imagine what it would be like if it were a lot bigger and more custom. 

My next FB will be a Busse. .


----------



## glockboy

worth it.


----------



## Brad01

What do you plan to do with it??


----------



## mossyoak

use it for skinning deer and for everyday use on the ranch


----------



## XFlash

If iterested I have a Natural Outlaw 6" tan with the edges Satin finished ,serial numbered. No shealth mint as shipped.
Will post pic tonight if want to see.
Xflash


----------



## XFlash

Mossyoak, here are the pictures.
They are great knives, but you are right they are pricy.

#1 Tali Whacker (Busse Swamp Rat Cross)
#2 Collector Busse Natural Outlaw






#3 Busse Satin Jack standard
#4 Busse Natural Outlaw Standard





#3 and #4 with included sheaths





I also have several Swamp Rats if you want to see them.


----------



## ACMarina

I totally dig the Tali-Whacker. .


----------



## mossyoak

that satin jack is nice how much i just might be able to come up with some extra cash?


----------



## nightgaunt

I recommed the Becker BK7 or BK10 (a bit smaller) for all types of camp and ranch chores. Plenty sturdy and feels good in the hand. All for less than $50. 

I've handled a few Busse's and was a bit freaked out with the price-to-specs ratio. Of course, I love Striders, so pretty much personal preference and how much $$$ ya' got in your pocket...


----------



## 03lab

XFlash, great pics! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif I'd love to see your Swamp Rats. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Mossyoak, you might also want to take a look at Fallkniven's line up. They are my favorite when it comes to fixed knives. Nightgaunt is right about the Becker knives though, for the money they are hard to beat.


----------



## mossyoak

yes the bk10 was another knife i was considering


----------



## XFlash

Here you go 03lab, Swamp Rats.

#1 4 1/2" Bandicoot Standard
#2 4 1/2" Bandicoot Non Catalog Desert INFI





#3 Paul's Rachet Standard
#4 Howling Rat Standard 4 1/2"





#5 7 1/2" Camp Tramp Desert





#6 9 1/2" Battle Rat Standard





Enjoy Xflash


----------



## ACMarina

Your SR knives #3 and #4 (okay, knife and hatchet) are my standard SAR setup. They're Sooooooooo tough /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## XFlash

They really are great knives. The Howling Rat has such a great feel, and even though I did't show them, the sheaths are of excellent quality as well as Kydex lined. I was so inspired I even tried my hand at making some knives.


----------



## 03lab

Thanks XFlash, awesome knives. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif


----------



## Codeman

I've got a Busse Combat Basic #3 & #9. They preceded Swamp Rat, but were a cheaper alternative to the customs. They have Modified INFI steel, which is why they cost less. I wouldn't trade either for anything.

One day, I'll buy a real Busse, but it will probably be a safe queen, which is really the wrong place for a Busse to be. I'd have no hesitation to drop the money on one, if I had need for it. I don't, so the Swamp Rat line is very attractive.


----------



## verpus77

Busse Combat Knives are definately worth every penny in my opinion. I have never seen a knife take a beating like a Busse, and still be one of the sharpest knives I've ever used. I own a few Busses and a Swamp Rat and find it hard to justify spending money on any other blades after having first hand experience with their performance. My favorite kind of vacation is the "primitive recreational experience" where a large knife is my only tool in the wilderness. There is no other knife that I would trust my life to. If you are going to be hard on a knife and can afford it, I'd say get a Busse.
I am currently in the process of selling/trading off my folders to make room for a Busse Active Duty as my EDC. After handling and using one, it has made my other small knives seem weak and obsolete.


----------



## straightblast

I own several of them, nice knives. I prefer the knives built by Rob Simonich, but Busse makes a good knife.

If I was buying a beat-around everyday fixed blade, would probably not spend on the Busse. As a skinner? I believe there are better knives. Search places like KnifeArt and BladeArt for a good skinner.


----------



## out5yder

In my opinion, any object worths it if it is useful to you more than the amount of money you have spent on it. 

If you want to have the feeling of having the most indestructible knife on the planet and if you believe this feeling deserves the money for a Busse knife, then it worths it. If you want to impress your neigbours by showing them you have the most indestructible knife on Earth and you feel this makes you enough happy that it worths to pay those money for it, then it worths it. If you intend to cut nails, screws, thick metal wire and you want to do this with a knife while you have other more obvious choices, then it worths it.

Practically speaking, the only advantage of a Busse Combat knife is the indestructibility of its INFI steel and nothing else (the indestructibility given by the fact it does not chip while hiting dull materials). INFI does not poseses the best edge retention, it does not poseses the best edge achieveing ability, it does not poseses the best shock resistence, it does not poseses the best corosion resistence, it does not have the most obvious ease of sharpening and its records on lateral strenght are still discutable since many big knifes have comparable lateral strength regardless the steel they are made from. INFI is only a good balance of all of these properties and has as a big advantage only the fact it does not chip at 59HRC if it hits hard materials. Furthermore, the designs of Busse knives are not at all the best. A proper design for a knife is half of its practical value. But Busses are heavy, most of them have a too thick tip and the overall design is good only for a few kind of cuts and for chopping. They stuck in wood when you use them for batonning and the tip of most busse knives penetrates with too much efort and difficulty soft materials such of flash covered by warmly dressing (compared to an AK-47 bayonet or to a Fallkniven knife for example).

Busses ARE NOT the best knives on the market from the practical point of view. And their value constantly increasing on the secondary market is given only by what psychologists call "The Principle of Insufficiency". Busse Combat does not produce a coherent line of knives such as companies which have discovered an optimised practical knife design do. They put on sale a particular model for a couple of months and then they change to another design and another name. People know they cannot find a particular knife for too long and they feel that knife has a very high value just because it will be more and more rarely to find after the stock finishes. Jerry Busse knows this and he concentrates only on making of newer designs to replace the existing ones and so on. Also, the words "limited edition" are very often used on the Busse Combat site. So, the value of these knives are especially given by the marketing strategy. If you don't believe me, just think about this: If a knife design is so good, ergonomic and optimised, why it is not produced again and again in "non limited at all" editions and why isn't the production growing constantly all over the world?? This should be a natural consequence of a really revolutionary good quality product: the company would extend and the production would constantly grow and that product would soon become easily available all over the world because its purchase is guaranteed by its quality. But with Busses, this natural law is not working, so, it means Busses are not so revolutionary as they seem to be and their success on the market is maintained by the principle of insuficiency.

There are much beter knives out there for any kind of works and for all-in-one or survival too, but I don't want to give examples because I don't want to make advertising. The best knife IS NOT the one which is more resistent when used for things that are not supposed to be acomplished with a knife, and the best knife IS NOT the one wich resists better when used in an inadequate way. The best knife is the one which performs the tasks (which it is intended for) in the best and optimised way possible.

Best Regards!


----------



## carrot

Wow. Talk about a blast from the past! This thread is only three years old.

I have two. I am considering getting a third, an NMFBM (the current offering). Are they worth it? Yes. Are there better values out there? Also yes. 

Jerry Busse's marketing strategy is genius. It is certainly unorthodox but you have to admit it works. It keeps the products fresh and increases urgency (if you like it you better snatch it up). It keeps collectors happy. It keeps users happy (when have you ever had to replace a Busse anyway?) Every knife's release generates huge buzz. All of this serve to fuel or create an addiction. 

I assume Jerry gets bored with designs quickly. That's cool. If I were a knifemaker I would get pretty tired if I had to make the same knife over and over. Just because a company doesn't stick with one design for long does not mean they are unable to produce consistency and quality. It means they aren't satisfied to just sit on their laurels while the industry keeps moving around them. New models are released all the time. This lets a small company like Busse have the freedom to explore many different ideas without being bogged down by having to crank out all sorts of variations and different models to keep people happy. Remember, each knife is built to order.

Many Busses are designed for chopping and batoning, and I find that my medium-sized Busse excels at this. This is where Busse really made its name, making big tough choppers that are good at what they do (chop). There is a market for big tough knives and it is great to be able to chop and baton and hammer without worrying about the knife. It is like an axe in a more versatile format. There are smaller, pocketable ones too, and they are quite usable and cut great! For example, the Active Duty, Game Warden, Cultellus and Scotch Dispenser all have their own fan following.


----------



## Guyon

out5yder said:


> In my opinion, any object worths it if it is useful to you more than the amount of money you have spent on it.
> 
> If you want to have the feeling of having the most indestructible knife on the planet and if you believe this feeling deserves the money for a Busse knife, then it worths it. If you want to impress your neigbours by showing them you have the most indestructible knife on Earth and you feel this makes you enough happy that it worths to pay those money for it, then it worths it. If you intend to cut nails, screws, thick metal wire and you want to do this with a knife while you have other more obvious choices, then it worths it.
> 
> Practically speaking, the only advantage of a Busse Combat knife is the indestructibility of its INFI steel and nothing else (the indestructibility given by the fact it does not chip while hiting dull materials). INFI does not poseses the best edge retention, it does not poseses the best edge achieveing ability, it does not poseses the best shock resistence, it does not poseses the best corosion resistence, it does not have the most obvious ease of sharpening and its records on lateral strenght are still discutable since many big knifes have comparable lateral strength regardless the steel they are made from. INFI is only a good balance of all of these properties and has as a big advantage only the fact it does not chip at 59HRC if it hits hard materials. Furthermore, the designs of Busse knives are not at all the best. A proper design for a knife is half of its practical value. But Busses are heavy, most of them have a too thick tip and the overall design is good only for a few kind of cuts and for chopping. They stuck in wood when you use them for batonning and the tip of most busse knives penetrates with too much efort and difficulty soft materials such of flash covered by warmly dressing (compared to an AK-47 bayonet or to a Fallkniven knife for example).
> 
> Busses ARE NOT the best knives on the market from the practical point of view. And their value constantly increasing on the secondary market is given only by what psychologists call "The Principle of Insufficiency". Busse Combat does not produce a coherent line of knives such as companies which have discovered an optimised practical knife design do. They put on sale a particular model for a couple of months and then they change to another design and another name. People know they cannot find a particular knife for too long and they feel that knife has a very high value just because it will be more and more rarely to find after the stock finishes. Jerry Busse knows this and he concentrates only on making of newer designs to replace the existing ones and so on. Also, the words "limited edition" are very often used on the Busse Combat site. So, the value of these knives are especially given by the marketing strategy. If you don't believe me, just think about this: If a knife design is so good, ergonomic and optimised, why it is not produced again and again in "non limited at all" editions and why isn't the production growing constantly all over the world?? This should be a natural consequence of a really revolutionary good quality product: the company would extend and the production would constantly grow and that product would soon become easily available all over the world because its purchase is guaranteed by its quality. But with Busses, this natural law is not working, so, it means Busses are not so revolutionary as they seem to be and their success on the market is maintained by the principle of insuficiency.
> 
> There are much beter knives out there for any kind of works and for all-in-one or survival too, but I don't want to give examples because I don't want to make advertising. The best knife IS NOT the one which is more resistent when used for things that are not supposed to be acomplished with a knife, and the best knife IS NOT the one wich resists better when used in an inadequate way. The best knife is the one which performs the tasks (which it is intended for) in the best and optimised way possible.
> 
> Best Regards!



I have a number of disagreements with your post, but before I respond, I'd first like to hear what knives you've used and in what capacities. 

I'm curious about many of your claims, and I'd like to hear about the specifics on which you base all these generalizations.


----------



## stitch_paradox

Hey Guyon nice to see you hear! Kydex dust blowing in the wind?


----------



## noviomagus

Guyon said:


> I have a number of disagreements with your post, but before I respond, I'd first like to hear what knives you've used and in what capacities.
> 
> I'm curious about many of your claims, and I'd like to hear about the specifics on which you base all these generalizations.


Busse are tough knives.but maybe not best for most tasks.
for batoning them yes .they are probably the toughest.
but for cutting?
for stabbing?
etc.
it is a very heavy knife.and when you carry a big Busse it doesnt beat an axe for splitting wood. 
things like that.
a knife is a tool.not more than that.
I understand the 'Busse is king' fetish though


----------



## boss429

Reply to 5+year old thread--I don't own a Busse yet but intend to buy one soon. Like fishing lures once you get beyond the standard silver spinner most lures are made to catch the fisherman. I think knives are a lot like fishing lures as it's more what catches the user eye initially then it's functionality. Busse does constantly change designs which attacks new and repeat biz opposite of Randall knives who rarely change designs but has a four year+ backlog. Just buy what you like!
FYI-I also classify knives by two criteria one is a chopper and the other is the slicer. Busse are mostly thick bladed durable battoning type blades-a chopper.
Kitchen type knives with a thin bendy blade is -a slicer. A chopper will tend to squash a tomato and a slicer will bend and break in a piece of dry oak. Is there single knife balance of the two?-I can't find one. My balance is a fixed chopper on my belt and a backup folding slicer in my pocket.-IMHO


----------



## Patriot

boss429 said:


> A chopper will tend to squash a tomato and a slicer will bend and break in a piece of dry oak. Is there single knife balance of the two?-I can't find one. My balance is a fixed chopper on my belt and a backup folding slicer in my pocket.-IMHO




I really liked this quote because it's so practical. Obviously there are some exceptions but I really do view most of the large Busse' as "tomato squashers." For some reason I don't view a knife like the Natchez Bowie the same way but perhaps it's a bit more elegant with it's sweeping blade, pointed tip and full flat grind. 

Like you, I'm a two knife kinda guy because I can't seem to get one knife to do everything.


----------



## Steelbender

Another reply to an old thread, but must be resurfaced,
Are they worth it? For a tough knife- yes.
Other than that, no not really, there are plenty of brands that will hang performance wise right with it and some that will just spank it.
ESEE, Becker, Fallkniven, Bark River are just a few.
Busse clan can do excellent heat treatments on all there steel, I love the 154 and 101.... As far as Infi--- I guess if your into breaking knives then go for it, there plenty tough, they have most all the qualities of what makes a knife, but every area with the exception of rust resistance and toughness they lack in.
I've had over 30 because I collect, thick egde spines that look like a axe grind are the norm, when I see people say- wow it's the sharpest blade I have, or it holds a great edge, I either think I'm the unluckiest customer, or the guy that says that hasn't a clue what sharp is. When it comes to actual performance, Infi is medicore at best.... I personally love the looks of them, and when the blades hit 8" is where infi starts to shine, anything smaller and you can get way more value and performance from numerous makers..... I know for collectors it won't be admitted, that the safe is really full of shiny prybars, but I've come accept that fact years ago, ... So for the new guy, there valuable for the small amount of models made, not for how great they are


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Welcome to CPF Steelbender. Enjoy. Moving this to the Knives sub-forum.

Bill


----------



## JacobJones

Lol, this is hilarious. I've never seen a thread revived so many times


----------



## Steelbender

Sorry Jacob, but might as well, 2 of my last 3 Busse blades have had issues, when ya can't cut paper out of the box, and handle
Scales not seated flush, this was the perfect thread to respond to.


----------



## JacobJones

That's bad, wouldn't expect that from such an expensive and highly praised manufacturer


----------



## glockboy

Do your Busse come with the "Swing Shaving Sharpness Sheet"?




Steelbender said:


> Sorry Jacob, but might as well, 2 of my last 3 Busse blades have had issues, when ya can't cut paper out of the box, and handle
> Scales not seated flush, this was the perfect thread to respond to.


----------



## Steelbender

Sometimes I get them, sometimes not. One I did receive was sharpened by "Alan" the paper had 2 cuts, however upon me trying- on video it did nothing but tear, in fact also on video, that same blade out of the box I was able to press into my finger hard for over 30 seconds and left nothing but a dent. The QC needs to be refined.


----------



## bullfrog

They suffered from unacceptable sharpness and grind unevenness issues in the past, but for the last 6 months they have really ramped up QC... The last 4 Busses I've bought are friggin razors with the HOG Muk being the sharpest knife I've EVER owned.

The good thing is that if you are unhappy in the least, call Jerry or Amy and they will go out of their way to make it right - not too many companies out there where you can speak to the big boss just by calling the shop.

So.... Are Busses worth it? YES. You really need to own one (or 10) to understand...

In knives over 5" INFI really REALLY shines as it doesn't tend to chip out during chopping - it rolls and can be easily steeled back into place. Plus it is easy to sharpen and stays very sharp - I can chop all day and still shave hair at the end. I'd recommend picking up the current BOSS Jack offering - its a steal @ $267 and honestly one of the best Busses, and knives, I've owned. 

If cash is tight, go with ESEE (I've owned the entire lineup) which is also my favorite brand, but if you can swing it, go Busse - they are better and in a separate class.

EDIT: Here is a good thread over on BF discussing the claim of INFI superiority: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/772715-Proof-Of-Busse-%28and-Kin%29-Superiority

I've owned 25+ models and these are my current keepers (with a Swamp Rat Rucki, Scrap Yard 511 and another Boss Jack on order):






.


----------



## gqlux

I have read a lot of good things about these knives and also the Swamp Rat. I wonder how I would go getting one sent to Australia?

gqlux


----------



## Steelbender

bullfrog said:


> They suffered from unacceptable sharpness and grind unevenness issues in the past, but for the last 6 months they have really ramped up QC... The last 4 Busses I've bought are friggin razors with the HOG Muk being the sharpest knife I've EVER owned.
> 
> My muk was so-so sharp---Good, or acceptable.
> 
> 
> The good thing is that if you are unhappy in the least, call Jerry or Amy and they will go out of their way to make it right - not too many companies out there where you can speak to the big boss just by calling the shop.
> 
> With the exception of Mike at bark river, Peter at fallkniven, Jeff at ESEE,
> 
> 
> So.... Are Busses worth it? YES. You really need to own one (or 10) to understand...
> 
> In knives over 5" INFI really REALLY shines-----Totally disagree -- the S5 was an excellent comparison here, same knife, same grind . Infi vs sr101 and the 101 will out perform infi all day only stopping short of intentionally breaking it.
> 
> as it doesn't tend to chip out during chopping - it rolls and can be easily steeled back into place. Plus it is easy to sharpen and stays very sharp - I can chop all day and still shave hair at the end.
> 
> ---------THIS is the misconception that NEEDS to be addressed...I don't even want to get into this long dragged out senario here, but infi will not hold it's edge any longer than plain good heat treat 1095... DAMN, it's so hard to not sound like someone has to bash infi, but when these little rumors start floating they NEED to be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------

