# D36 IMR Lamps Now Available



## Croyde (Jul 8, 2009)

I thought you might be interested that Lumens Factory have just released two D36 IMR lamps with 700 & 1,000 lumens options, running off two or three IMR cells respectively:

http://www.lumensfactory.com/new_products.php


----------



## mdocod (Jul 9, 2009)

That's good to see. Originally they weren't planning on IMR lamps for the D36 lamps since there aren't any hosts with proper switches for the high current....

All that changed with their new Seraph 

I am taking a real liking to the mini-turbo D36 standard, and LF really has done a great job on all of the D36 lamps I have tried so far. I wasn't expecting a major difference from the D26 line, but they have their own optimized bulbs and everything. If the IMR D36s follow suit they should be real solid performers.


----------



## Croyde (Jul 9, 2009)

The Seraph is what Mark suggested I consider but I was hoping that I might be able to utilise a 13 volt Rattlesnake which is on route to me - sounds like there is not a twisty switch option for this then?


----------



## LIGHTSMAD (Jul 9, 2009)

these oviously don't work in a C surefire bezel........what surefire head do i need to for these to work?


----------



## mdocod (Jul 9, 2009)

Hi LIGHTSMAD,

The D36 standard is not used anywhere in the surefire lineup. The SF equivalent (in size roughly) is the Z46 head on the M3 but that uses a tower assembly rather than a fully-reflectored lamp assembly. The D36 reflector seems to be slightly larger diameter and of slightly different shape than the reflector in the M3 head...

Wolf Eyes and Pila were the only options out there that used the D36 reflector natively for as long as I can recall. Options for where those souped up D36 lamps from LF could go has been limited to the GL4 and M90 for quite some time. LF just came out with the D36 to SF "C" head adapter as part of their line of Seraph products. (The Seraph can play lego with many SF parts, compatibility varies depending on specific application). 

The D36s have a larger outer spring than D26 lamps, and will not seat down into all SF compatible hosts and make contact perfectly. The Seraph host was specifically designed to address this problem in it's body/head design, but that isn't necessary in all cases. The D36 head seems to work fine on SF made bodies, but not on FM made bodies (internal anodizing on the business end of the head prevents contact). YMMV with other bodies. 

-Eric


----------



## bigchelis (Jul 9, 2009)

mdocod said:


> Hi LIGHTSMAD,
> 
> The D36 standard is not used anywhere in the surefire lineup. The SF equivalent (in size roughly) is the Z46 head on the M3 but that uses a tower assembly rather than a fully-reflectored lamp assembly. The D36 reflector seems to be slightly larger diameter and of slightly different shape than the reflector in the M3 head...
> 
> ...


 


Eric,
I have an extra M6 body and tail that I was thinking of getting the Sarah D36 bezel and run a D36 lamp. Do you think it will work?

I saw you mentioned it might not screw all the way down.

Thank you,
Jose


----------



## mdocod (Jul 9, 2009)

Hi Jose,

The D36 bezel screws onto SF "C" "head-threads," It will not work on an M6 body. If I have said anything to the contrary then I was mistaken... if you can find that error please point it out so I can go edit in a correction.

-Eric


----------



## LIGHTSMAD (Jul 10, 2009)

thanks for clearing that up mdocod :thumbsup:


----------



## cernobila (Jul 10, 2009)

Wow, these snuck in quietly, better have a look and get some.......might even do some beamshots again.....


----------



## bigchelis (Jul 10, 2009)

mdocod said:


> Hi Jose,
> 
> The D36 bezel screws onto SF "C" "head-threads," It will not work on an M6 body. If I have said anything to the contrary then I was mistaken... if you can find that error please point it out so I can go edit in a correction.
> 
> -Eric


 

Cool, I just got the new 2C from fivemega P60 style. I went out last night for a 30 minute walk with the dog and it rocks.:twothumbs

Fivemega 2C hosts, 2 C li-on KD cells, and P91. At least I can put the D36 Sarah bezel on this Fivemega 2C hosts right?

Thanks again,
Jose

EDIT: I also have IMR C cells, but right now I am not ready to try the P91 with 2 IMR C cells.


----------



## Croyde (Jul 10, 2009)

I will be picking up the Rattlesnake in the morning, once I have paid the customs fees 

Then I can look to order one of these 1,000 lumen D36 IMR lamps, as I now have a solution, which is a waterproof Wolf-Eyes tail cap. It will cost a bit for shipping but I sense that it will be worth it


----------



## 325addict (Jul 10, 2009)

I have known this for weeks that it will be coming... as I have a WE M90 with a twisty(!) LED-tailcap, this can't go wrong in my opinion.

I'll surely have a 1,000 Lumen LA but I need a long extender too! Where can I get one easily? I live in the Netherlands....

Then, I obviously need some IMR 18650s. When taken the maximum current of ordinary 18650s into account, these should be fine to power these lamps with a current draw of about 3 Amps.... but I assume it's the heat generated that plays a major role in their strong advise to take IMR batteries, right?


Timmo.


----------



## bigchelis (Jul 10, 2009)

325addict said:


> I have known this for weeks that it will be coming... as I have a WE M90 with a twisty(!) LED-tailcap, this can't go wrong in my opinion.
> 
> I'll surely have a 1,000 Lumen LA but I need a long extender too! Where can I get one easily? I live in the Netherlands....
> 
> ...


 


Timmo,
IMR cells are the answer for most my applications. AW said his new AW 18650 2600mAh cells are IMR llike in that they can handle succesfully the 5A of current. I have not seen graphs or tests to prove or disprove this and judging by the quality of his IMR 18650 cells I assume the AW new 18650's will deliver. 

I purchased 3 of those new AW 2600mAh 18650 cells, but they are longer than any 18650 I have and you may need magnets in some applications.

bigchelis


----------



## mdocod (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi Jose,

The Seraph D36 head may or may not work on the FM "C" host... While the adapter will screw on to the head of the host, the D36 lamp assembly might not be able to make proper electrical contact. I have not had much luck using FM 18mm "C-C" bodies with the D36 adapter for 2 reasons:
1. The inside of the business end of the body is anodized (non-conductive) less that ring of non-anodized bare aluminum at the base of the lamp pocket. The outer spring of a D36 lamp is larger in diameter and doesn't seat all the way down into the head... This side of the problem can be solved with the outer spring stolen from a D26 incan lamp from LF. The larger outer spring will work on most SF bodies- even though it doesn't seat all the way down it doesn't mater because the lamp spring "pocket" of the body is not anodized on an SF body and will make contact anywhere. 
2. The center spring doesn't extend far enough down into the body of the light to make contact with the cells on a body that has a "lip" that prevents cells from "sliding forward" to meet the spring. On an SF body with 17mm diameter cells, the cells can move forward past the "lip" for the large spring contact, on bodies bored fro 18mm cells, the larger cells won't slip forward far enough to meet the spring. The Seraph host solved this issue by making the lamp pocket on the body shallower and the D26 heads deeper. This side of the issue could probably be solved in several ways- Like stretching the center spring (I've done this, it works, do at your own risk and make sure to support the base of the spring against the lamp assembly while pulling so as not to rip it out of the base of the lamp)... Alternatively, some sort of magnet (a few mm thick would do the trick I think) with an insulating washer around it could be installed up there above the top cell to complete the circuit...

-----------------

325addict,

LumensFactory makes recommendations for battery and lamp combinations and maximum continuous runs that are purposely on the conservative side to minimize liability and maximize safety for customers. Most companies do this in some fashion or another. We can come along after the fact, dissect the products and decide how we want to use them and make our own informed decisions. 

For years now, 18650 size protected lithium cobalt cells have been used here on CPF to drive lamps like the WA1111 (~3.5A), 64250 (~3.5A), WA1185 (~3.3A), ROP high (over 4 amps!). 

The maximum recommended operating/exposure temperature is ~140F for most 3.7V li-ion cells whether they are LiMn or LiCo chemistry. The LiMn (IMR) chemistry would have a margin of safety from it's naturally safe chemistry; if the user were expecting to use the light in a manner that could on some occasions cause more heat build up than ideal, that safety margin might be preferred...

I will say this... LF doesn't make a lamp (IMR line included) that cannot be used safely on quality protected 18650s  Smaller cells like 18500s should be avoided for some of the lamps though. (Like the new IMR-9L and IMR-M3T).

The bulbs designs of the IMR lamps are optimized to handle the higher operating voltages that would be expected with IMR18650 cells. In my experience, a set of AW18650s looks just as bright to my eyes on the lighter duty lamps like the IMR-M3 and IMR-9. (there probably isn't enough difference to see). The noticeable difference in output kicks in on the higher current bulbs.... The IMR-13 would really be a toss-up. Make the decision based on what results you want from the light- IMR cells will deliver a flatter discharge, resulting in less noticeable decline in output through the discharge, but the total runtime probably won't be any better than 30 minutes. A set of AW 2600s would run for more like 45 minutes, but would have a more noticeable decline in output through the run. 

I'm always amazed when I use my IMR18650s from Emoli on continuous runs in the M6 with higher powered lamps like the IMR-M3T/64250/MN21, I don't see hardly any difference through the run, then all of the sudden they "go-dead" and it's like a sudden drop-off in output sneaks up on you very fast.


----------



## pete7226 (Jul 10, 2009)

mdocod, Do you think the Leef c-c bodies present the same contact problem when using the D36 Seraph head? I hope not, I ordered one yesterday


----------



## mdocod (Jul 10, 2009)

Hi pete7226,

I have no way of knowing as I have not seen a leef in person... I can almost guarantee that you will have center spring contact problems due to length, the outer spring will depend on whether the inside is anodized. 


-Eric


----------



## Juggernaut (Jul 10, 2009)

Croyde said:


> Then I can look to order one of these 1,000 lumen D36 IMR lamps, as I now have a solution, which is a waterproof Wolf-Eyes tail cap. It will cost a bit for shipping but I sense that it will be worth it


 
What is the solution? Is the “water proof” tail cap any different from the stock one? Because the clicky will fry from use with IMR lamps.



> I have known this for weeks that it will be coming... as I have a WE M90 with a twisty(!) LED-tailcap, this can't go wrong in my opinion.


 
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I too thought that was the deal, and when I asked I was told that the twisty is even more fragile then the clicky tail cap:mecry: because in order to utilizes the LEDs there is a small circuit board in the tail cap which the current must flow through to either go into the incan lamp or the LEDs. This circuit board will likely be fried from the high current. In fact off of 3x 18650s using the 2.2 amp EO-13 bulb I swear I could see a difference in output between the two switches “the LED twisty having a lower output because of internal resistance” enough that I now only use the clicky.


----------



## Croyde (Jul 11, 2009)

The waterproof twisty tail cap looks like this:


----------



## Eric242 (Jul 11, 2009)

mdocod said:


> 2. The center spring doesn't extend far enough down into the body of the light to make contact with the cells on a body that has a "lip" that prevents cells from "sliding forward" to meet the spring.


I am using my D36 head on a FM body (18500 + 102mm ext = 3x18500). I had to file down the "lip" you mentioned so that the cells can reach the spring with the help of spacer magnets. Works quite nice for two weeks now :thumbsup: and now I´ll get this 1000 lumens D36 LA with IMR cells to amp up the volume a bit 

Eric


----------



## Croyde (Jul 11, 2009)

Well I am really pleased with the 13v Rattlesnake and think that I will like it even more when the 1,000 lumen IMR lamp and the twisty tail cap arrive about a week from now


----------



## 325addict (Jul 11, 2009)

@ Juggernaut: I just looked thoroughly at the construction of that PCB, there's a total of about 3.5mm in width of PCB-tracks where the current should flow through.
As PCB-tracks can handle 1A per mm width safely, this one should be able to handle 3.5 Amps and that is sufficient even for the IMR 1,000 Lumen lamp.

I just go for it.... if I fry it, I'll have to buy a new one :mecry:

Maybe in your tailcap the little screw from the center contact had come loose? In this case, you'll have some serious resistance when you're so unlucky to get some dirt under the brass center-contact.

Currently, I have the standard 13V setup with the original WE lamp assembly (this one draws 1.5 Amps) and this one is already freakin' bright :candle:
Very curious what the 1,000 Lumen LF LA will do 


Timmo.


----------



## Juggernaut (Jul 12, 2009)

Croyde said:


> The waterproof twisty tail cap looks like this:


 
Wow that really makes this light bomb proof:devil:. I’ve been looking for one of these:twothumbs, can you post the link from were you got it:wave:? 

Also thanks for clearing that up 325addict.


----------



## Croyde (Jul 13, 2009)

I ordered it direct from Wolf-Eyes, you can reach them at: [email protected] and the part you need is a Sea Lion twisty tail cap for a M90-T13.


----------



## Croyde (Jul 14, 2009)

All of the required parts are now on their way to me. I will let you know if it was worth the wait and the shipping fees in due course.


----------



## mdocod (Jul 14, 2009)

Mark sent me the IMR D36 lamps for evaluation (didn't know he was going to do that but they shows up yesterday)...

What I have found with both lamps is a drop-off in beam intensity but with a larger beam profile compared to the lesser "non-imr" versions of the D36 lamps. The IMR-13 produces the same beam intensity as an HO-13, but with a beam profile that is like 70% wider. The EO-13 will actually out-throw the IMR-13.

-Eric


----------



## cernobila (Jul 15, 2009)

mdocod said:


> What I have found with both lamps is a drop-off in beam intensity but with a larger beam profile compared to the lesser "non-imr" versions of the D36 lamps. The IMR-13 produces the same beam intensity as an HO-13, but with a beam profile that is like 70% wider. The EO-13 will actually out-throw the IMR-13.
> 
> -Eric



Sounds good to me, I already have the KT head with plenty of throw with the LF lamps.....so I am looking forward to a "light them up" lamps for the D36 head.


----------



## Croyde (Jul 15, 2009)

mdocod, any chance of seeing some comparative beam shots?


----------



## mdocod (Jul 15, 2009)

Croyde said:


> mdocod, any chance of seeing some comparative beam shots?



I will be updating *this* thread through the summer to include beam shots both white-wall style for beam shape/type identification and outdoors for real-world application, more information, pictures of configurations and more comments on configuration options. I also am going to try to get my hands on about another dozen or more lamps to include, like more SF lamps, LF lamps, and bi-pin lamps... Depending on how my income looks maybe I can pick up an FM D26 bi-pin socket as well.... we'll see 

-Eric


----------



## Croyde (Jul 15, 2009)

Thank you, I will look forward to seeing such a comparison, as I am sure will many others.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 16, 2009)

Croyde said:


> mdocod, any chance of seeing some comparative beam shots?


*+1!*

Yes, please!!


----------



## Bushman5 (Jul 17, 2009)

ok bear with me here:

if i take this LAMP ASSEMBLY:

" IMR-M6 Special High Output 13V, 1000 Lumens Special High Output Lamp Assembly
(For 3 x IMR Batteries M Series Flashlights OR 6 x IMR RCR123A on M6 Flashlight)"

and put it into a Surefire M6

AND

use 6 IMR RCR123 batteries, 

i will have a 1000lumen (approx) retina searer thats also rechargable? 

:huh: me want....

also, am i to understand that the IMR rechargables are a little more tolerant of high lamp draw and heat?

also, can the IMR 123's be used in other applications, like say my TA30?


----------



## cernobila (Jul 17, 2009)

Croyde said:


> The Seraph is what Mark suggested I consider but I was hoping that I might be able to utilise a 13 volt Rattlesnake which is on route to me - sounds like there is not a twisty switch option for this then?



I have used the IMR 9L and IMR 13 in my Rattlesnake with original switches without any problems, both the clicky and LED. (*with AW 18650 2.6A cells*) Not sure what will happen if you use the IMR cells, should not make much difference though.


----------



## cernobila (Jul 17, 2009)

pete7226 said:


> mdocod, Do you think the Leef c-c bodies present the same contact problem when using the D36 Seraph head? I hope not, I ordered one yesterday



I have the BigLeef system and just used the D36 Seraph bezel with the IMR 9L and a pair of AW C Li-Ions, it works just fine. To avoid the contact problems if any, just slightly stretch the centre spring and turn the outer spring back to front so the narrow end goes inside the neck, (just drop it in) screw the D36 head with the IMR lamp in it onto the body and she is ready to fly.


----------



## cernobila (Jul 17, 2009)

Croyde said:


> Thank you, I will look forward to seeing such a comparison, as I am sure will many others.



Well while you are waiting, you can have a look at these for a rough comparison.....

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/237006


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 19, 2009)

Bushman5 said:


> ok bear with me here:
> 
> if i take this LAMP ASSEMBLY:
> 
> ...


Yes that's correct.


----------



## Bushman5 (Jul 20, 2009)

Thanks! this will be my next light setup! :twothumbs


----------



## Freaker (Aug 3, 2009)

The new D36 IMR lamp....

Can I drop that into my Rattlesnake 13v with three IMR cells? Will the stock Wolf-Eyes tailcap handle that?


----------



## 325addict (Aug 3, 2009)

Yes, it will. I mean, the twisty LED-tailcap will handle it fine. Already proved by another member here, and I calculated it as well, that it should cause no problems.

Yes, this will be one of my next setups too :devil:


Timmo.


----------



## Swagg (Oct 2, 2009)

cernobila said:


> I have the BigLeef system and just used the D36 Seraph bezel with the IMR 9L and a pair of AW C Li-Ions, it works just fine. To avoid the contact problems if any, just slightly stretch the centre spring and turn the outer spring back to front so the narrow end goes inside the neck, (just drop it in) screw the D36 head with the IMR lamp in it onto the body and she is ready to fly.



Do you have a photo of this set up? What does the D36 Seraph head look like on the Leef Body?


----------



## cernobila (Oct 5, 2009)

Swagg said:


> Do you have a photo of this set up? What does the D36 Seraph head look like on the Leef Body?



OK, finally got the picture done. For comparison purposes I included; WE Rattlesnake 2x 18650, BigLeef with D36 Seraph head 2x black C, Fivemega with D36 Seraph head 2x black C, Fivemega Prince 2x black C, and WE M300 Lion 3x 18650. I could not resist putting in the M300


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 5, 2009)

cernobila said:


> OK, finally got the picture done. For comparison purposes I included; WE Rattlesnake 2x 18650, BigLeef with D36 Seraph head 2x black C, Fivemega with D36 Seraph head 2x black C, Fivemega Prince 2x black C, and WE M300 Lion 3x 18650. I could not resist putting in the M300


Fantastic set of incans!

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## cernobila (Oct 6, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Fantastic set of incans!
> 
> Thanks for sharing.



Yeah, I am quite happy with these.....don't forget that the Rattlesnake and the BigLeef can be turned in to three cell lights via 168 extender for the M90 and an extra "body" for the BigLeef, allowing the use of D36 13V lamps.....however, the M300 is my favourite at this stage and gets the most use.


----------



## Eric242 (Oct 6, 2009)

It would be really cool if Lumens Factory would offer the D36 mini turbo head in black and/or natural HA. I guess some more people would jump on that train then.

Eric


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Oct 6, 2009)

Eric242 said:


> It would be really cool if Lumens Factory would offer the D36 mini turbo head in black and/or natural HA. I guess some more people would jump on that train then.
> 
> Eric


Not only a D36 Mini-Turbohead in BK/HA, but I think Lumens Factory is really missing out a huge opportunity in not having a KT1/KT2 Turbohead alternative to offer. These would easily outsell anything in their Seraph Line...


----------



## QtrHorse (Oct 6, 2009)

Eric242 said:


> It would be really cool if Lumens Factory would offer the D36 mini turbo head in black and/or natural HA. I guess some more people would jump on that train then.
> 
> Eric


 
I am going to purchase 1-2 of these mini turbo heads and have them coated as a complete light in the new exotic coating service thread. One in HA black and maybe one in HA gray.


----------



## ampdude (Oct 6, 2009)

Wow, this is an informative thread. I feel like I was out of the loop on this one. Those Seraph lights and accessories look great.


----------



## Eric242 (Oct 7, 2009)

QtrHorse said:


> I am going to purchase 1-2 of these mini turbo heads and have them coated as a complete light in the new exotic coating service thread. One in HA black and maybe one in HA gray.


I already have two of these heads and was thinking the same thing:  modamags coating service. I recently painted a few pelican cases, had some crylon paint left over and ended up painting the complete light with it. Certainly not as durable as a HA anodizing but it´s a user anyway.

Eric


----------

