# Best Torch for Light Painting Photography?



## Easton (May 8, 2008)

Hi guys,

I'm a photographer who uses torches as a form of lighting in my work, I'm in need of some help and I figured if theres any place that can give me the answers it would be candlepowerforums 

I use high powered torches for light painting my subjects (cars) but I'm very specific about the kind of light I need, here are some examples where i've used light painting before.



























Because I rely on my torches so much I'm willing to spend more on the torch I need. However i'm sick of wasting my money experimenting with different torches, I want to know what would suit me best and than just go ahead and buy it.

My requirements are:
- As powerful light as possible, equilvalent to over 1500W incandescent lighting preferred. The more the merrier. 1000W even will be sufficient if it will be easier 
- SOFT LIGHT ONLY, so absolutely NO focusing beams. 
- PORTABLE POWER, must run off rechargables and PREFERABLY off rechargable AA's, AAA's or D's etc (so in an emergency I can buy some at a nearby store)
- Colour cast (yellow tint or blue) does NOT matter. Colour can easily be corrected in Photoshop.
- If the lighting is NOT soft I DO have the option of placing diffusion material over the light to soften it enough, but this effectively cuts the light that goes through by half. *Definition of "Soft" is when I point it at the wall, I do NOT want to see a visible circular focusing spot.


Currently i've been using a basic $50, 10 million candle powered torch which uses a sealed lead acid battery. Because the light beam is so crap I have to diffuse it with material twice before the light is soft enough to use. Effectively i'm only getting about 2 million candle power through the torch.

I have just recently purchased the 128 LED light from DealExtreme for about $28 and finding it better than my other torch. The reason is because the light is SOFT, so therefore I don't need to diffuse the light anymore, making it effectively more powerful than the 10 million candle powered torch. I also LOVE the fact that it uses 6 AA's so I can use rechargables in the unit. Plus it's a lot smaller physically than the 10 million candle powered beast.

I've been looking at kaidomain and dealextreme at their CREE lights and I have absolutely no idea what the heck they mean, i've been considering to buy their latest CREEx5 torch and than placing diffusion material in front again till it's soft enough to use. Will this be powerful enough? How much more powerful would this be than the 128LED light I currently have? *The other option is to buy ANOTHER 128LED light and just use them simultaneously together!

Re: HID
I do have a 250W HID light but it is NOT portable and used only in the studio. It's equivalent to over 2000W incandescent and is bright as hell, but incredibly clumsy to use as I have to let it cool down before switching it back on again. Also, because it requires a nearby power source I hardly ever use it. Because of my experience with this, I'm a little hesitant to buy the HID torches without your advice first.

I would GREATLY appreciate any suggestions as to what would be the "ultimate" torch for my photographic needs :twothumbs


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## Burgess (May 8, 2008)

Hello Easton --


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !

:welcome:



First, let me tell you that your photographs are *absolutely Beautiful* !



As for diffusion material, we *had* (that's _past tense_) a member 
here on CPF who had invested a Great Deal of time and effort and $ in searching
for the "Ultimate Diffusing Film" for flashlights.

The fellow's "user name" on this forum is/was FASTCAR.

He located some WONDERFUL stuff, and was selling it (in much more manageable sizes) to our members.

I myself bought a quantity of this diffuser material,
and can give it a BIG THUMBS UP !

And, here's the kicker . . . .

In all my measurements, it reduced light output by well UNDER half-an f/stop.


It also had a Very Good rating for heat.


Here is ONE of the threads on this subject:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/167886


Now, you hafta' understand something . . . .

This gentleman is no longer on our Forum.

But i understand that he Does visit *other* forums,
and can be contacted there.


Perhaps another user here has better "contact info" for him.


Hope that this is helpful.


Others will have LOTS of additional suggestions for you. 


Good Luck in your quest for the Perfect Light. 

:thumbsup:

_


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## Glen C (May 8, 2008)

Welcome Easton, is it your work I have seen in Wheels and Motor? It looks like the last image was taken at Imax at Darling Harbour, but I could be easily wrong. Very nice images. I am a photographer and understand what you are doing. 

I should state now I am a Wolf Eyes Dealer in Sydney. If you work in Sydney I am more than happy to meet you with a full range of torches so you can see the difference. I have just taken a large number of beamshots against a static target which I could email to you if you wanted to compare. Shoot me a PM or email with your email address. I agree with Burgess suggestion of diffusion material and would use it in a filter like this (http://wolfeyes.com.au/wolf-eyes-red-filter-fd35r-p-83.html) but with diffusion material. Some units now take screw in filters, the same as your lenses. A HID may suit, they are much smaller now and can be diffused. You are a pro, you should look at pro gear. 

Good luck in your choices.


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## EV_007 (May 9, 2008)

Excellent photography. I've always wanted to try my hand at painting with light with some of my lights.


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## Gunner12 (May 9, 2008)

:welcome:

First off, I know this is pretty irrelevant, the "XX Million" candlepower lights struggle to hit a quarter million candlepower. Candlepower is mainly used to measure throw.

Cree is one of a few companies that make the current generation of LEDs. 1-2 Cree XR-E LEDs should equal or be brighter then the 128 LED thing you have now.

Only a guess but the 128 LED thing should be in the 300 lumen range. Two top bin(R2 bin) XR-E LEDs driven at max recommended current can hit 500 lumen total.

Most of the current gen LED lights will have a visible hotspot due to them using
a reflector. But you can always remove the reflector and just have a really floody beam.

The 5 Cree thing is probably around 500 lumen(a normal 2D light has around 15 lumen).

Do you have a maglite? If you do, check out the bottom drop-in on this page. Should be enough light for your tasks. Also check this one out. They are a bit pricey though. Those are a few examples, there are many other lights that might work too.

You can also build your own light.


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## woodrow (May 10, 2008)

1st, great photos. I would recomend the UK Lightcannon 10 watt hid. It will run 2 hours on its battery pack or on 8 c alks or nimh batts. It comes with 2 overlapping diffuser lenses and is much more of a flood than spot light to begin with. Brightguy sells them (a great place to buy from) for $279 with battery pack. It is made to work as a video light.


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## 2xTrinity (May 10, 2008)

> My requirements are:
> - As powerful light as possible, equilvalent to over 1500W incandescent lighting preferred. The more the merrier. 1000W even will be sufficient if it will be easier
> - SOFT LIGHT ONLY, so absolutely NO focusing beams.
> - PORTABLE POWER, must run off rechargables and PREFERABLY off rechargable AA's, AAA's or D's etc (so in an emergency I can buy some at a nearby store)


I can tell you right now forget about trying to use disposable cells as a fallback -- while NiMH and NiCd rechargeables might be able to produce the kind of power you want (ie, BRIGHT LIGHT), -- alkaline D cells can really only put out about a watt of power each before they start to suffer from excesive voltage drop (high internal resistance). With the most efficient LEDs on the market in a 4D Mag, you might get 200 lumens, which is far less than 1000w incan equivalent (15000 lumens minimum).

IMO for your needs, your best bet is a mag hotwire with a highly textured reflector. That will give you momentary off/on and no warmup issues like HID. It will also give you more overall output than you can get from LEDs at the current time. And if you'r not wandering far from the shop and running rechargeables, and not running this continually, super long runtime shoudln't really be a concern.

Something like the Philips 5761, or Mag85 producing ~1200 torch lumens, with a orange peel reflector that is slightly de-focused will give you a beam that both has neither a sharp "hotspot", nor a lot of spill (with LEDs you get a lot of spill, which I don't think you want for your purpose). You could build your own or probably find one in the B/S/T forum.


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## yaesumofo (May 11, 2008)

Sounds like a P7 in a maglite with no reflector might give you at least some of what you need,

You sound like you are tired of experimenting.
IMHO that is the best way to create.

I would say that you need to go out and buy a bunch of LED flashlights get some surefire's and some fenix lights and experiment to see what works. The LED may give you some challenges in terms of their color temperatures.

I would also experiment with LED light panels (available for rent at many camera houses).
Have you tried Balloon lighting? There are so many options coming up all the time.

Also get a hold of the color kinetics (now Philips) technology. They have High power LED lighting with many colors and DMX control...
Good luck.
Yaesumofo


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## Mike V (May 11, 2008)

It's not a flashlight, but I'd recommend a LTM Minipar if you want Daylight:

http://www.ltmlighting.com/en/projector/cine_24w_24w_minipar-2.html


or a 100W Dedo if you want Tungsten:

http://www.dedolight.com/www/dedolight/default.php?la=0&pg=00000401030100&id=DLH4&section=0


Both of these can be run off a 12 volt block battery.


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## Tachikoma (May 11, 2008)

OMG you've actually shoot the Civic Type R catalog, great job :twothumbs
Btw :welcome:


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## maxa beam (May 11, 2008)

WOW! Those are the most amazing car photographs I've ever seen, and I say that without a hint of sarcasm.
:welcome:
Do you want LED? Incan? What color would you like? White? Soft white? Cold white? Red-white?


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## enLIGHTenment (May 12, 2008)

Easton said:


> I would GREATLY appreciate any suggestions as to what would be the "ultimate" torch for my photographic needs :twothumbs



http://elektrolumens.com/Wall-Of-Fire/Wall-Of-Fire.html

http://www.ledlenserusa.com/product_info.php?modelNum=8437

http://elektrolumens.com/ShadeSlayer/ShadeSlayer-7.html


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## Echo63 (May 12, 2008)

if you are the Easton who does photos for Motor and Wheels, - i love your work, i really like that R35 GTR shot above, i assume it was taken with a rig ?


As for lights, there isnt many "off the shelf" lights that will do what you want, but given that you shoot with a $10k 1dsmk2 (looked at the EXIF) having a custom light made by one of CPF's custom makers will give you the flashlight equivalent of Canons finest
something like Data's "Databank" without its collimating optics sounds like what you need - https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/178130

for an off the shelf light the Underwater Kinetics Light cannon produces around 500 lumens and comes with diffusion filters for underwater photography, its a Hid, and it runs on 8 C cells, and is about $500 australian
you can probably have a look at one in a dive shop near you - http://www.uwkinetics.com/product/5

hope this helps 
Echo63
(struggling motorsport photographer)


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## Easton (May 13, 2008)

hi guys!

Yeah it's Easton the shooter for Wheels etc. your replies are really helpful and i'll have to look into them all individually. Though it does sound like there's no possible off the shelf solutions for my needs. I don't want to experiment with all these solutions, i'm going to have to just pick the best one and go with that.

I have to take back what I said about my 128LED light, it does need some diffusion, although not so much of it. My current "diffusion" material by the way, is a dirty old rag. It's not even white anymore 

yes, I do have pro camera gear, but not pro lighting 

all the solutions i'm reading here seem to have their own advantages and disadvantages, i.e cost versus power, diffusion and work to be done to make it usable for me. I didn't realize though that the reflector on the front of the torch is what causes the focusing beam, maybe that'll improve my 128LED?

My internet has died at home so pardon me if i'm replying to my own thread so slowly!


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## Gunner12 (May 14, 2008)

Would something like the Zebralight except more powerful be good?

Or do you need something with a bit more hotspot.


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## Notsure Fire (May 14, 2008)

enLIGHTenment said:


> http://elektrolumens.com/Wall-Of-Fire/Wall-Of-Fire.html
> 
> http://www.ledlenserusa.com/product_info.php?modelNum=8437
> 
> http://elektrolumens.com/ShadeSlayer/ShadeSlayer-7.html





That lenser doesn't put out "1068" lumens for 125 hours on just 4 D batteries. It's not available for purchase either.

The elektrolumens wall of fire http://elektrolumens.com/Wall-Of-Fire/Wall-Of-Fire.html however is a good choice for him. It's complete flood with a "soft" beam. However he'd need to contact elektrolumens so they can make it for him. He'd probably need to get some rechargeable Ni-MH batteries and a smart charger for the setup. But, judging from the photos, he looks like he means business and a one-time investment like that would totally be worth it.


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## smopoim86 (May 15, 2008)

The Wall of Fire is what came to mind while i was reading the requirements as well. Should be just what he needs. 

BTW, some excellent pictures. Photography is one of my preferred hobbies, flashlights are a tangent for me. I love them and want more, but would generally feel better about spending money on photography equipment.


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## Stillphoto (May 15, 2008)

Beautiful work. Check out Igor Panitz, his car work is (from what I remember reading) lit with a huge led rig that he can program...allowing him to add/subtract specular highlights as necessary.

That's neither here nor there. You need a light that is soft, like a kl4 head from surefire. That would be for a broad wash of light. I've used it before for such. The thing is, sometimes with using leds for painting, you need a soft light with a hard edge (or at least an edge that can be controlled). I've cut off the bottom of a black film canister and slid that over the front of the light as a snoot.

Also I've used the blackhawk gladius, because it can be dialed up or down so easily. Of course being a bright light that throws a long distance, that was solved using some 216 or similar diffusion.


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## Easton (May 15, 2008)

I am familiar with Igor's work, he's a big commercial player! And unfortunately, i'm doing my light painting hand held, so my results are more dodgy - but the advantage for me is that I have the flexibility of doing it outdoors.

I have to admit, the abundance and variety of responses are starting to confuzzle me a bit. :duh2:


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## Easton (May 15, 2008)

Gunner12 said:


> Would something like the Zebralight except more powerful be good?
> 
> Or do you need something with a bit more hotspot.



That light output DOES look perfect for my needs. No hot spots and flooded soft light. But it dosn't seem anywhere near as powerful as I need it to be. It has to be brighter than my current 128LED to justify a purchase. Especially considering the 128LED was just $28. I'm sure there are better ones out there - I just don't want to experiment with another 10 torches to find the right one.

Just trying to get my terminology right here... am I looking for a "flood" light? "Flood" means no hotspots and very widely spread lighting?


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## adamlau (May 15, 2008)

A Polarion PH50 w/ Diffusion Filter is what you are looking for. Go ahead and buy it  .


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## Notsure Fire (May 15, 2008)

adamlau said:


> A Polarion PH50 w/ Diffusion Filter is what you are looking for. Go ahead and buy it  .



A diffusion filter is what he used before and he didn't like that it ate up a lot of lumens. It needs to use non-exotic batteries too.



He needs a flood-only light that comes stock with FLOOD, ONLY. This doesn't mean that he can use any flashlight and just slip some diffusion film on it. 

The elektrolumens wall of fire utilizing 4 P7 LEDs in one maglite is optimal in my opinion. It is made to be full flood and flood only. 

I don't know much about the Wall of Fire mag though. I did take some interest in the 5 Cree mag that elektrolumens also makes. It is also pretty much full flood and costs $150. I don't know about their wall of fire p7 version.


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## smopoim86 (May 15, 2008)

I think the wall of fire (4x p7) is supposed to be around $300


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## Thujone (May 15, 2008)

another vote for the electrolumens wall of fire...


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## Gunner12 (May 15, 2008)

These lights with diffuser lens might be too powerful(and they cost quite a bit).

Something like this, this, or this without a reflector, with a diffuser, or with the right optic should work.


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## Notsure Fire (May 15, 2008)

Gunner12 said:


> These lights with diffuser lens might be too powerful(and they cost quite a bit).
> 
> Something like this, this, or this without a reflector, with a diffuser, or with the right optic should work.



Though alkalines aren't the best choice for high powered flashlights, he still did mention that he wants the light to accept readily available batteries that he could fetch from a nearby store. Those dx lights are nice flood lights but only work on lithiums.


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## Gunner12 (May 15, 2008)

Good point.

Maybe a good modded mag that runs on normal batteries?


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## Notsure Fire (May 15, 2008)

Gunner12 said:


> Good point.
> 
> Maybe a good modded mag that runs on normal batteries?



Yeah, the previously mentioned Elektrolumens Wall of Fire is a mag with 4 SSC P7's modded into it. Obviously it should be run on ni-mh's but, it is a mag, and a mag does take alkies.


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## kirby (Aug 12, 2008)

Just wondering what did you end up getting?
Two MTE P7 and removed the hood?
How did that go?


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## AvPD (Apr 15, 2009)

Looking over some old threads at DX via Google. Looks like he bought two of the MTE P7 models available at the time and presumably was satisfied (considering that he was using a 128-LED torch prior to this).


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## greenlight (Apr 16, 2009)

This photo is great.


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## Archie Cruz (Jan 15, 2010)

I really enjoying the use of flashlights for photography. Have a look...

I've finished the first test shoot,using flashlights as sole illumination for a still-life table top of the new Jabra Stone.
4 lights were used:
- LED Lenser X21 - Main (High - Medium Wide) (4x D-cell Alk)
- Fenix TK40 - Front Accent(Level 3)
- Mac's Custom MAG-D - Rear Accent (Level 3 , medium focus)
- Fenix PD20 - Targeted Accent (Level 1)
----
Shoot Duration - 1 Hr.
All the lights held up very well with respect to output and only the X21 'seemed' to diminish towards the end of the shoot.
Comments: The Fenix TK40 was beam modulated with a DIY diffuser and hood
The Fenix PD20 was beam modulated with a paper snoot
The LED Lenser's X21 optics were output beam ameliorated with a Yellow and Salmon colored 'Sharpie' pens directly on the optics. A 2'X2' translicent plexi sheet was used to spread the X21 beam closer to a skylight effect.

CONCLUSIONS
- Multi-level lights are essential in controlling lighting for photography. Only the main can be a 'full High' output.
- Variable angle beams are very useful in controlling beam character in lighting.
- Rechargeable, AC powered are far more economical than primary Alkalines or Lithium cells

NEXT STEPS
- Video clip of the setup to follow at > http://www.vimeo.com/8774036
- Still final result to be featured at > GearNinja.com
- Forum discussion citations will appear as my staff prepares them. CPF, etc...

CREDITS:
Fenix Lights courtesy of fenixgear.com
LED Lenser X21 courtesy of CoastPortland.com
MAC's MAG courtesy of Chris MacClellan


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## Colorblinded (Feb 21, 2010)

Archie Cruz said:


> I really enjoying the use of flashlights for photography. Have a look...
> 
> I've finished the first test shoot,using flashlights as sole illumination for a still-life table top of the new Jabra Stone.
> 4 lights were used:
> ...



Nice, I'd love to hear more about them in how they compare on color rendition.

I'm doing the same song and dance as the OP as I'm trying to find the right light for painting with light. I haven't decided between something with a spot and spill or something that's mostly flood (I am thinking that I could get something like the Fenix and just toss a diffuser on it when I need even light).


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