# Polarion PH 40 Battery Pack upgrade session; but nor working. Help appreciated



## Doberman (Oct 17, 2012)

Hi all, 

inspired from some threads in here i started an upgrade session for my weak PS-B8-P.
I ordered 8x 3200 UP Panasonics 18650 with soldering tips. 
When they arrived i opened the Battery pack and thought that the main issue for disassembly/assembly was the fiddly soldering part and the left space for the new package within the case. I took some pictures from the existing pack and soldered everything together with the new 18650s in the same way (at least i thought so).
With some additional work the new pack also fit into the case.
But: when i put the power chord into the plug only one LED lights up green; but nothing else happens, there is no charging process starting.
So, there must be something wrong with my rebuildt package. 
I noted the current connection schema. 







There are those two eclectrical boards, one holding the DC socket and the charging electronics.
It also contains two cables that are connected to the middle of each battery string; guess it´s for the balanced charging.
It also contains one cable pair that lead to a (i guess) PTC/NTC to control the temperature while charging (two in the scribble, but that´s incorrect). 
On the other hand there is the contact board that holds the +/- contacts for the Flashlight.
Attached a picture of the unit without batteries





Soldered the batteries according the above mentioned pattern and built everything together:














The question is now, what did i do wrong ?
I know that distance diagnostics is always difficult, but perhaps there is something very clear pointing out that i don´t see/ know.

Thanks in advance


----------



## sven_m (Oct 21, 2012)

Green LED at right end? Perhaps your batteries just were full already before assembling the pack? 

I don't know the charge circuit board, so what about reassembling the old battery pack aside,
unsoldering the charging board and comparing various voltage levels, having the charger board alternatingly quick-connected to either pack?


----------



## electromage (Oct 23, 2012)

I've re-built laptop packs, and the PCB never works quite right. Did you measure your cell voltages before you assembled it? Have you tried powering the light on?


----------



## Doberman (Oct 23, 2012)

Hi Sven,
thought so, too at first glance.
But with a correct assembled Battery pack all lights flash up for a second and then switch to the current status.

electromage,
i just measured every cell and it shows exact 3.6 Volts. The overall voltage is 14.4 Volts at the top where the PCB has it´s main connection. 
So the assembly of the cells seems to be OK.
Also there is physical wiring contact to the balancer wires. 
I did not start up the flashlight due to a certain risk of damaging the light; would be a disaster.
Still have a good cell pack; but it am really fussed why this other package is not starting up.

Rgds


----------



## sven_m (Oct 23, 2012)

I guess you did, but you haven't mentioned explicitly:
Have you compared voltage levels at the balancer wire pins on the charging board
and double checked that you haven't swapped some wires accidentally?


----------



## Doberman (Oct 24, 2012)

will re-check again; thanks


----------



## dudemar (Oct 30, 2012)

Are the cells protected? In the OP I'm guessing UP stands for unprotected.


----------



## electromage (Oct 30, 2012)

dudemar said:


> Are the cells protected? In the OP I'm guessing UP stands for unprotected.



They look like bare OEM Panasonic cells.


----------



## Doberman (Oct 30, 2012)

Hi all,
these are unprotected 3200 mAh Panasonic IMR cells with factory point welded soldering tips. 
Protected cells would not fit from dimension point of view. 
Also the PCB should be responsible for LV and other cell health ckecks.
Thanks


----------



## dudemar (Oct 31, 2012)

If they are in fact IMR cells that could be your problem. The stock setup uses li-ion (I believe Lithium Cobalt?) cells, and the PCB is specifically designed for them. Too much voltage will make your ballast go


----------



## Doberman (Oct 31, 2012)

Hi dudemar,
thanks for your comment.
sorry, IMR was wrong indication this is the specification for the cell :

*Panasonic NCR18650A*
*Spannung (Voltage)**3,6 V**Kapazität (Capacity) min/max**2950 / 3100 mAh**Nennspannung (rated Voltage)**3,6 V**Ladeschlussspannung (Charging voltage max)**4,2 V**Entladeschlussspannung (discharging Voltage)**3,0 V**Max. Belastung (max. discharge)**2 C / 6,2 A**Chem. Zusammensetzung**LiNiCoAlO2**Länge**65,2 mm**Durchmesser**18,6 mm**Gewicht**44,5 g


*


----------



## oren1s (Nov 29, 2012)

Hello,

I'm in the same situation 

I have done some tests and it seems that the PCB needs some activation, or i should have connected the wires in some sequence.
Anyhow when connected to the power supply it's charging, but there is no output at the metal rings
If someone has done it please help.

Thanks


----------



## Patriot (Nov 29, 2012)

Member 'Lips' has rebuilt these packs before. I don't recall any special sequencing being required, unless he just didn't happen to mention it. You might PM him and see if he'd be willing to chime in here.


----------



## BVH (Nov 29, 2012)

Or maybe it was member Lux who did it for member Lips?


----------



## oren1s (Nov 30, 2012)

Thank you Patriot and BVH.

I have done some further reading & digging, got to the conclusion that Polarion doesn't use simple PCB/PCM charging controler but rather utilise in their packs SBS (Smart Battery System) which is programed via PC 

On the Pack's board itself under the P+ wire there is a split golden circle, printed near each half SMBC/SMBD which is where the pc interface module is connected to.

Thus when i was disconnecting that board from the old batt pack the lost of power did something to the data on board which doesn't allow positive feed to the P+ wire (connected to the contact board).

If someone can help on that it would be much appreciated!

Thanks


----------



## Lips (Dec 1, 2012)

Yep, Luxluther rebuilt two packs for me as he has a *tack* welding system a much more experience in building packs. He did a masterful job on rebuilding a Rayzorbeam Light battery pack that was complicated.

Just so happens a few days ago I took apart one of the packs to salvage the Sanyo 2600mah batteries. I got frustrated just taking this thing apart... This pack was one of the rebuilt ones and had failed due to unknown reasons. The batteries were drained to zero and none of the batts were usable. The other pack rebuilt works fine. 

These packs are a PITA to rebuild unless you spend some quality time doing it (probably easier to built it than rebuild it). Lux did a production quality job on the one I took apart. For me, a do-it-yourself job is a no-go as it's a better alternative to buy a new one than try and rebuild these things (even at higher mah)... Unless your into DIY... 

I find it hard to believe they program these packs with computers on the go. My guess is that it has a protection circuit in the pack as usual.


----------



## Patriot (Dec 4, 2012)

Lux Luthor sure does some amazing work with battery packs. I've got a dead P Series pack as well and would love to fill it with some 3400mah cells. I suppose someday when 4000mah cells are widely available, Polarion will shift from 2200mah cells to 2600mah cells...haha! 

I think that's why I like the option of carriers rather than packs because you can use the latest cells. Wouldn't it be great if someone designed a carrier/charger for the P Series! We have to take off the tailcap to charge anyway.


----------

