# Inova Flashlights: What's the Point?



## Confederate (Jul 7, 2007)

It now seems that the majority of my Inova flashlights are now obsolete. The once-powerful LED beams of light now pale next to the latest Cree technology. A small one-cell flashlight now has multiple modes and is brighter and more efficient, yet the Invoa offerings remain the same. The prices are the same, yet who would buy a T3 or T4 nowadays? The T3 now takes three cells and comes in just short of 100 lumens. Rechargeable batteries keep them from being totally obsolete, but those same rechargeable batteries will power newer, smaller, more powerful and less expensive Cree lights. As for the T4, the proprietary rechargeable battery now almost is a dinosaur.

Surefire seemingly is turning on a dime and producing good LED lights, but I see none of the new technology in the Inova line. Anyway, I was mystified by Inova's decision to go to a 3-cell light with its old technology.

I won't get rid of my Inovas, but I may put them in a drawer with my old Mini-Mag Lites. 

Will Cree technology be replaced anytime soon and, if so, by what?


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## Cydonia (Jul 7, 2007)

:shakehead

Not another "since Cree everything is obsolete and has no function anymore" threads. Yeah, Inova will use a Cree in a year or two from now... there is no rush.


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## Monocrom (Jul 7, 2007)

There's a significant improvement vs. the older T-series lights in terms of what you get when you hit the switch. Lumen numbers aren't everything..... While things such as styling are less important to others, Inova = durability. These things are built like tanks, at better prices than what you'll generally find from Surefire.


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## Marduke (Jul 7, 2007)

I am going to venture a guess that you're the type of guy who trades in his car every year for the new model. Inova isn't in the same league as Surefire, and has to keep costs down to remain in the lower middle class flashlight market. When they can build the same flashlight with a Cree for the same price as what they are now, they'll put one in.


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## skalomax (Jul 7, 2007)

Inova Lights are great lights, bright output and very durable.
I'm pretty sure, If a total 'noob' buys a Inova, he would be dazzled by the brightness, looks, and durabilty of It.

Inova Isn't worried about selling flashlights that seem bright to us (Flashaholics).


I like to think so.


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## Confederate (Jul 7, 2007)

I love Inova lights. They're built very well and are a bargain for the price, but I hate seeing the company lagging behind more efficent technology. I recently purchased a couple of their XOs and I was disappointed with the light output. I mean, it's not bad, but it just kind of pales next to these tiny 1-cell Cree lights. The Inova XO does give about five and a half hours of runtime, though, which is nice, but a Fenix P3D will give several modes that will give much longer runtimes at various light levels. 

There's one Cree one-cell sold by DX that has a clip and dumps a lot of light. When I saw it, I thought, man, I wish I'd had one of these things when I was a Boy Scout! Those lights were dim when the batteries were fresh and they only got worse as it was used. 

Surefire didn't take long to crank out Crees, but Inova may take awhile, I fear. I was going to use rechargeables in my T3, but that 1-cell Cree is so bright that it's just not worth the weight of hauling the larger light.


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## Timson (Jul 7, 2007)

I really like my T3 - but the latest and greatest do leave it looking a little on the weak side......So I've been toying with the idea of bringing my T3 up to date with a Seoul P4 emitter swap for some time, but have held off because I didn't want to do it wrong and end up destroying a perfectly functional light.

In the end (in true flashaholic style) I took the plunge went for it.
The Freeze & Pop method worked really well without causing any damage whatsoever.

The upgrade was dead straightforward and was actually, really easy to do and in terms of output, the T3 is now comparabable to the latest Seoul / Cree offerings but in the good solid Inova form factor, which we all know and love for its rugged, solid build quality.

Was really tempted to retro-fit a McR27L-Seoul reflector in place of the TIROS. This would have been very do-able, but would have required some machining to the inside of the body....which I wasn't prepared to do on this light.
I'm surprised no-one else has done this yet.


Tim.


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## StainlessSteel (Jul 7, 2007)

This light STILL has NO equal:


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## Gaffle (Jul 7, 2007)

StainlessSteel said:


> This light STILL has NO equal:



Yyyeeaaahhhh, still a goodie. Second'd by me.


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## Monocrom (Jul 7, 2007)

Inova = Durability at very reasonable prices. Plus, for those who believe in only buying American Made products; well, there you go.


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## dano (Jul 7, 2007)

Inova isn't outdated.

--Inova has true output numbers. I know of no overseas Cree based light that has true output numbers. They're all inflated or exaggerated. Comparing numbers on paper with B.S. lumen values is worthless.

--I wonder why it has taken SF so long to use a Cree? Is there something about a Cree that their engineers know of; possibly reliability or other issues? Inova also has engineers who may know more than an internet board.

--I can send an Inova in for repairs, if needed. Can't do that with an overseas light.

--Inovas are almost indestructable, purpose built lights without all those rarely used multi-modes. I wouldn't hesitate to use an Inova on duty. I'd NEVER use a multi-mode little Cree based light with a difficult user interface and questionable untested reliability while on duty.

--Inova didnt design their lights to use a hap hazard rechargeable set-up, so this is a mute point.

There's more to a light than how bright it is, or if it uses the "latest and greatest."


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## parnass (Jul 7, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> Inova = Durability at very reasonable prices. Plus, for those who believe in only buying American Made products; well, there you go.



Those are the reasons why I use and enjoy Inova lights.


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## mossyoak (Jul 7, 2007)

Marduke said:


> When they can build the same flashlight with a Cree for the same price as what they are now, they'll put one in.



they could now. its not like the cree or ssc is anymore expensive than a luxeon K2.


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## ltiu (Jul 7, 2007)

If my life depended on it, I would get a SureFire, an Inova, a Pelican or a Streamlight. But most of the time I am just dxcking around. So a cheap toy Cree from some brand I don't care much about is good enough.


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## Monocrom (Jul 7, 2007)

ltiu said:


> If my life depended on it, I would get a SureFire, an Inova, a Pelican or a Streamlight. But most of the time I am just dxcking around. So a cheap toy Cree from some brand I don't care much about is good enough.


 
Some of us don't use our lights as "toys."


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## Lee1959 (Jul 7, 2007)

I depend upon my lights to some day perhaps save my hide, I would bet it on my Inovas, where I would never do so with the cheap other lights, Crees included I have picked up on whims. 

Brightness is not everything, quality is much higher on my list than bright output. I bet your Inovas will be still running long after the cheaper lights have long since died. I can appreciate slower RD and making sure the Technology you use is the best.


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## Barbarian (Jul 7, 2007)

dano at post #11 said it all.


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## ltiu (Jul 7, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> Some of us don't use our lights as "toys."



And what are the lights you DO NOT use as toys?


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## Monocrom (Jul 7, 2007)

ltiu said:


> And what are the lights you DO NOT use as toys?


 
Sadly, I think you're actually being serious. So I'll answer your question. I mainly use my lights for work. I patrol darkened office floors. Since I work nights, my lights fill a _need_. A toy is something for amusement. Anything that fills an actual need, that's something that doesn't fall into the "toy" category. My main work-light is a 2-C cell Maglite w/ MagLED in it. Clipped to my pants pocket, you'll usually find a Surefire L4. A back-up light to the Mag, in case the batteries die while I'm patrolling.... The last time I used it was Thursday night, while waiting for the bus. Some moron in an SUV was driving around with his lights off! I lit up his grill with a couple of rapid presses of the L4's tailcap switch. Not sure if the Driver realized I was signaling to him, considering the dirty look he and his passenger gave me as they drove by. But yeah, signaling someone to warn them.... also not something you do with a toy.

The Inova Microlight on my Key-ring which I keep clipped to my belt is there for one, and only one, reason. I work only a handful of blocks from Ground Zero. I work in a large office building. I work at a, realistically, prime spot for another Terror attack. One of the two posts I work at on alternating weeks is on the 36th floor. In case the building comes down and I need to get downstairs, I can turn on the Microlight's strobe feature so that a Firefighter can find me in the dust and darkness or office workers can find me so that I can lead them to safety. In case my other lights get damaged, I'll probably still have the Microlight clipped to my pants....

You know, it's nice that you've found something that amuses you. But like I said before.... For some of us, our lights are not "toys."


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## jml90 (Jul 7, 2007)

dano said:


> Inova isn't outdated.
> 
> --Inova has true output numbers. I know of no overseas Cree based light that has true output numbers. They're all inflated or exaggerated. Comparing numbers on paper with B.S. lumen values is worthless.
> 
> ...



I agree,except for what is bolded; it's a "moot" point


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## ltiu (Jul 7, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> Sadly, I think you're actually being serious. So I'll answer your question. I mainly use my lights for work. I patrol darkened office floors. Since I work nights, my lights fill a _need_. A toy is something for amusement. Anything that fills an actual need, that's something that doesn't fall into the "toy" category. My main work-light is a 2-C cell Maglite w/ MagLED in it. Clipped to my pants pocket, you'll usually find a Surefire L4. A back-up light to the Mag, in case the batteries die while I'm patrolling.... The last time I used it was Thursday night, while waiting for the bus. Some moron in an SUV was driving around with his lights off! I lit up his grill with a couple of rapid presses of the L4's tailcap switch. Not sure if the Driver realized I was signaling to him, considering the dirty look he and his passenger gave me as they drove by. But yeah, signaling someone to warn them.... also not something you do with a toy.
> 
> The Inova Microlight on my Key-ring which I keep clipped to my belt is there for one, and only one, reason. I work only a handful of blocks from Ground Zero. I work in a large office building. I work at a, realistically, prime spot for another Terror attack. One of the two posts I work at on alternating weeks is on the 36th floor. In case the building comes down and I need to get downstairs, I can turn on the Microlight's strobe feature so that a Firefighter can find me in the dust and darkness or office workers can find me so that I can lead them to safety. In case my other lights get damaged, I'll probably still have the Microlight clipped to my pants....
> 
> You know, it's nice that you've found something that amuses you. But like I said before.... For some of us, our lights are not "toys."




That's very good. You are using your lights for actual real work. As long as you are comfortable with the lights you are using. I notice you use Maglite, Inova, Surefire, these are what I would call "if my life depends on it lights". I know a lot of folks may disagree but Maglite is a good light in that it is a dependable tried and tested solution. Thanks for sharing with us how you use your flashlights. Stay safe at work.


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## Monocrom (Jul 7, 2007)

ltiu said:


> ... Stay safe at work.


 
Thank You. 

I appreciate that.


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## mossyoak (Jul 7, 2007)

stopping myself before i go off...


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## skalomax (Jul 7, 2007)

mossyoak said:


> stopping myself before i go off...


 






Comon' Its just flashlights.


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## boosterboy (Jul 7, 2007)

because they can actually build a god damn momentary switch correctly and have an existent repair department?

There's gotta be a reason why Inova products are in the NSN.


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## Pumaman (Jul 7, 2007)

Confederate said:


> There's one Cree one-cell sold by DX that has a clip and dumps a lot of light. When I saw it, I thought, man, I wish I'd had one of these things when I was a Boy Scout! Those lights were dim when the batteries were fresh and they only got worse as it was used.


 
+1 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

me too!

I have a ultrafire WF-602D HAIII cree that is a tremendous value at about $22 shipped. the 2xAAA little incandescent I took to boy scout camp for a few years as a kid sucked. 

and as far as innovas go, I get your point. as a flashaholic, I would only buy another innova used and cheap, not new. but they still put out plenty of light and are well built, so are worthwhile for many uses.


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## mossyoak (Jul 7, 2007)

boosterboy said:


> because they can actually build a god damn momentary switch correctly and have an existent repair department?
> 
> There's gotta be a reason why Inova products are in the NSN.



oh, that momentary switch of theirs is junk, surefire can build a good momentary, inovas requires absolutely clean contacts for it to work not good. 

inova also inflates their lumen outputs the original XO3 DID NOT put out "87 lumens" or what ever inflated junk quote they had on the package, they take the low road and give emitter specs instead of true lumens out the front like surefire. 

and another thing cause i aint finished yet, surefire hasnt been draggin their feet it takes time to research and develop and surefire isnt going to rush something that goes to the sandbox. they want the thing to work. 

inova on the other hand is just fine with being behind the curve and by that i dont mean using tried and true tech, cause that thing they threw into the 3rd gen X1 is far form tried and true. 

ok im done for a bit.


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## Lightingguy321 (Jul 7, 2007)

StainlessSteel said:


> This light STILL has NO equal:


a possible equal would be a modded streamlight Jr. Luxeon that uses the red Luxeon I instead of the White one. (a red/red orange Luxeon I averages between 30 and ~65 lumens +/- 15 lumens if driven correctly)


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## knot (Jul 8, 2007)

StainlessSteel said:


> This light STILL has NO equal:



What is that?


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## chesterqw (Jul 8, 2007)

the inova 5 has a equal, if not better!

of course, the idea is in my mad mind.

here it is:
1) luxeon rebels  or the luxeon PWTs
2) using 5 of the above(either one)
3) super flood light in same package!(under driving them of course...)

of course, i think the light will only be in my imagination...

can some one do that and sell them?


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## Bror Jace (Jul 8, 2007)

It's been a dozen years since I've been a firefighter ... and I can't really say I put my life in the hands of a flashlight anymore. When walking in the woods with my "cheap Chinese lights" I simply carry a spare. I haven't had a light simply fail on me yet ... what is the chance _two_ will?

If I were to be dead serious about lights, I'm not sure which brand I'd go with as even Surefire has their share of trouble. :ironic:

Looking at Inovas right now? I think I'd wait and see what they come up with in a year or more. No reason to buy one now and have it shown up by a new Inova a year or less from now.

The one thing about Inova not updating their lights is that it leaves a lot of buyers on the fence. :shrug: That's not good for business.


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## mossyoak (Jul 8, 2007)

knot said:


> What is that?



X5 red.


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 8, 2007)

dano said:


> --Inova has true output numbers. I know of no overseas Cree based light that has true output numbers. They're all inflated or exaggerated. Comparing numbers on paper with B.S. lumen values is worthless.



Huh? Inova is notorious for overstating lumen output. E.g. their official spec for their 1st gen (TIROS) T3 was 100 lumens. If you believe that then I have a bridge to sell you.


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 8, 2007)

Timson said:


> The Freeze & Pop method worked really well without causing any damage whatsoever.



How did you get the bezel ring back in after you'd done the emitter upgrade? I'd do an emitter swap on my T3 without hesitation if I had a sure way of getting the thing back together again.


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## asdalton (Jul 8, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> Huh? Inova is notorious for overstating lumen output. E.g. their official spec for their 1st gen (TIROS) T3 was 100 lumens. If you believe that then I have a bridge to sell you.



Yup ... although I'm pretty sure that the 1st gen. T3 was advertised as 85 lumens, while the reality was closer to 45. The new, reflectorized version puts out a whopping "100 lumens" in spec-sheet fantasy land, while in the real world it's probably 60. :scowl:

Still, on absolute terms it's a very good light.


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## knot (Jul 8, 2007)

StainlessSteel said:


> This light STILL has NO equal:



There's this 






Pointed at a 15' ceiling


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## Monocrom (Jul 8, 2007)

mossyoak said:


> oh, that momentary switch of theirs is junk, surefire can build a good momentary, inovas requires absolutely clean contacts for it to work not good.
> 
> inova also inflates their lumen outputs the original XO3 DID NOT put out "87 lumens" or what ever inflated junk quote they had on the package, they take the low road and give emitter specs instead of true lumens out the front like surefire.
> 
> ...


 
I wouldn't call Inova's momentary switch, junk. But it does need improving. (Main reason why I prefer their T-series over the X-series).

I do wish that Inova wouldn't inflate their lumens numbers.... Still, the quality and durability of their lights is not something that's inflated. If you want a quality light that's Made in America, at very reasonable prices, well; Inova qualifies. 

Honestly, Surefire should have recalled their U2 model. There seem to be fewer reported problems, now. But not too long ago, I recall quite a few CPFers complaining about how unreliable that tailcap switch was. It was even worse for those overseas. I will admit that everyone loved their U2s.... when it worked. Surefire rushed.... and then dragged their feet in correcting the problem. 

Okay, perhaps the 3rd Gen. X1 isn't very good. I only recently added an X1 to my collection. And, I intentionally bought a 2nd Gen. model. (But I wanted the longer runtime). Not every light from even a quality company is going to be great. (My favorite company is Streamlight. Some of their models, I'd enjoy owning. Others, I wouldn't waste my money). From what I've seen, from the various Inova lights that I own; Inova hits the mark far more often than it misses.


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## greenlight (Jul 8, 2007)

I still love my inova x1 flashlights.




They had a good thing going there for a while...


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## Marduke (Jul 8, 2007)

I just have two things to add:
1) They'll have to pry my X5 from my cold dead fingers from one hand
2) They'll have to pry my Victorinox Soldier from the other


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## ltiu (Jul 8, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> Huh? Inova is notorious for overstating lumen output. E.g. their official spec for their 1st gen (TIROS) T3 was 100 lumens. If you believe that then I have a bridge to sell you.



Everyone is doing it! I automatically subtract 20% or more from the manufacturer's claims (on all the lights I own or read about) to get closer to the true lumen rating. Not an exact science.


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## GarageBoy (Jul 8, 2007)

Inova X5 has no equal..can ya say..runtime


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## steve_vance (Jul 8, 2007)

chesterqw said:


> the inova 5 has a equal, if not better!
> 
> of course, the idea is in my mad mind.
> 
> ...




That's an interesting point, but this is about PRODUCTION lights. The soldier on duty in Iraq, or the SWAT team guy entering a building that's dark, must depend on his light for his life. They're not typically the guys who would buy (or TRUST) a light put together in some garage (or offshore remote location), that wasn't used and tested every day by hundreds if not thousands of their peers. 
We must remember that CPF is the home of CUTTING EDGE, REVOLUTIONARY ideas in lighting, and there is a natural impatience that occurs when you don't see the current production lights using "the latest technology available". But as a CPF member (only since 2003, but I've been testing LED and evaluating lights since 2000) I've seen what we call in my business (investments) "the herd mentality" dominate preference, if not reverence, for some lighting manufacturers that are perceived by the "herd" to be cutting-edge. First it was Surefire (in my mind the only justified choice in this list), then ARC, then Proton, then Fenix, then Lumapower; the list goes on, but if you were to ask a flashaholic in the herd about each of those at the time they were "hot", he would say that "they're the best, and everything else is crap.Why can't everyone else be like them"? Well, it doesn't work that way. Oops.

Guess I ranted enough :nana:

That being said, I'm glad that there is Fenix, Lumapower, and the others to make use of the newer technologies. But if you want rock-solid reliability and warranty, you just have to be patient while it filters its way down to the"production" lights. And you can't (or shouldn't) trash manufacturers who elect to go with what is proven.

Have a great day, all.


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## mossyoak (Jul 8, 2007)

ltiu said:


> Everyone is doing it! I automatically subtract 20% or more from the manufacturer's claims (on all the lights I own or read about) to get closer to the true lumen rating. Not an exact science.



well, not everybody, surefire you might want to add 20% and HDS, arc, and many other dont inflate.


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## spoonrobot (Jul 8, 2007)

> Inova Flashlights: What's the Point?


How can a flashlight company be obsolete when their offerings are brighter, more efficient and better built than 99% of the flashlights sold to the mainstream user?

Obsolete to this forum and it's fickle, quick-change nature? Of course, the only way they could have avoided this would have been to dump their current product line and the associated costs of developing the K2 lights and switch to a technology that hadn't been in existence long enough to really get in depth with. To the flashaholic the only light that is not obsolete is the one being released tomorrow. 

The point is they are a quality, American, flashlight manufacturer. 

I will disagree with your statement that they are obsolete in general. Some users don't want multiple-light levels tied to a horrible user-interface; have you ever seen a non-hobbyist try to use a P1D-CE? It's horrendous. 

Inova has a history of good customer service, excellent build quality and increasing availability to the average consumer.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 8, 2007)

My buddy is something of a gadget freak. I show him stuff like my DX Cree'd G2 and he says "wow".

But he owns and uses 2 Inova X03/Tiros lights and LOVES 'em!

I only own a first gen X1 (YUCK!) and an X0/Tiros (not so yuck).


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## Monocrom (Jul 8, 2007)

As far as Inova goes, I just wish they'd offer some quality holsters or open belt pouches with their lights.


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## woodrow (Jul 8, 2007)

Inova's for the most part are very good reliable lights. Do I wish my new 2007 T3 was brighter and more effecient...you bet. I also got one with a somewhat flakey tailcap. But it has always worked and believe it most likely always will. It feels the most solid of all the flashlights I have. Because of its brightness....my 18650 tubed D-mini gets way more use, but I do not regret buying the T3.

As to the "whats the point" question of this thread... to me its like saying that after the Iphone whats the point of any othere phones still being made. While I would love to have a I phone (no AT&T wireless here) my phone still makes a decent phone call and has gps. Just because a "better" product comes along, it does not automaticly render everything else as non valuable.


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## Bror Jace (Jul 8, 2007)

*Steve* and *Woodrow*, that's a good point about using less-than-state-of-the-art technology ... but making the light ultra-reliable.

Still, I think that flashlight manufacturers should have seen the writing on the wall a year or so ago and switched their manufacturing over to making more modular designs that can quickly and efficiently be updated to take the newest emitters. 

The top manufacturers should already be making these new lights with the latest-greatest emitters available ... the same way cutting edge PCs are offered for sale just months after new chips hit the market.

Think about it: when you break down what a flashlight is, none of this is rocket science (except, perhaps the emitter). The rest is a tube, a switch, reflector, (hopefully) some regulation circuitry and then (of course) the emitter. Most of the pieces could be made in large quantities and might not need be changed for a decade or more.


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## Marduke (Jul 8, 2007)

I think we are forgetting what could be going on behind the scenes here. Inova probably makes many of the components like the bodies in-house (they make it themselves). However, they don't make their own emitters, they buy those from someone else. Like most companies, I am reasonably sure that when they want something in bulk (like to supply the production line of a current model) they purchase up to YEARS of a component in the form of a contract they cannot break with the supplier. Ever notice that Inova's, once a model goes on the shelf, is usually plentiful and is never on back order from the company? Surefire and others who use (sometimes) the cutting edge can run into supply problems for a particular model's component, and it goes on back order because they don't contract a year's worth of parts at a time. If you take this to the other extreme, MagLite takes years to make even small updates to their products, but they haven't been on back order from the manufacturer for pretty much the entire life of the company.

The moral of the story: if you only buy shipments on a as-needed basis, don't be surprised if your shipment goes to another company who has a long term contact for much more, and you're left out in the cold until the next batch.


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## city cop (Jul 9, 2007)

As far as Inova goes, I just wish they'd offer some quality holsters or open belt pouches with their lights. 


Monocrom, Blackhawk makes a nice holder for most Inova's, with ajustable flap and will velcro to most duty belts.


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## ringzero (Jul 9, 2007)

steve_vance said:


> But as a CPF member (only since 2003, but I've been testing LED and evaluating lights since 2000) I've seen what we call in my business (investments) "the herd mentality" dominate preference, if not reverence, for some lighting manufacturers that are perceived by the "herd" to be cutting-edge. First it was Surefire (in my mind the only justified choice in this list), then ARC, then Proton, then Fenix, then Lumapower; the list goes on, but if you were to ask a flashaholic in the herd about each of those at the time they were "hot", he would say that "they're the best, and everything else is crap.Why can't everyone else be like them"? Well, it doesn't work that way. Oops...Guess I ranted enough :nana:




Well stated, steve_vance.

I haven't been reading CPF for nearly as long as you, but I've noticed the growth of the "herd mentality" phenomena for the last year.

The lack of basic common sense and the seeming inability to think logically among so many CPFers is rather dismaying.

.


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## Monocrom (Jul 9, 2007)

city cop said:


> As far as Inova goes, I just wish they'd offer some quality holsters or open belt pouches with their lights.
> 
> 
> Monocrom, Blackhawk makes a nice holder for most Inova's, with ajustable flap and will velcro to most duty belts.



Thanks for the information. 

I just wish that in this case, Inova followed Surefire's example and had their own holsters & pouches. Surefire's kydex Speed holster is a real Winner! I love mine.


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## Blindasabat (Jul 9, 2007)

So, what is the point of ANY flashlight you can buy in US stores besides the Surefires available just last week? Besides the new E-series, the Inova T-series is still the best value in single level lights for 'serious' use generally available to the public in stores.


spoonrobot said:


> I will disagree with your statement that they are obsolete in general. Some users don't want multiple-light levels tied to a horrible user-interface; have you ever seen a non-hobbyist try to use a P1D-CE? It's horrendous.


 LOL, I've had this experience too. I usually try to only lend single level lights to others unless they have been educated in its use. They will either complain the battery is dead because my super bright light (they saw me use it earlier) came on in low, or they will turn my PT EOS on high and leave it there draining the already used 3AAA as they sit doing nothing.

I bought my first Inovas (T1 & T3) as something mostly comparable to a Surefire for less money, and they are still that. I can use smaller lights, but the simple one level momentary clicky makes the T1 a good 'around the house' light, and the T3 with same switch and spot beam makes it a good 'in the car' spot light. 
I'm getting a T3 upgraded to SSC sometime soon, but as stock, it is still a very good light. So much so, that I got a second one just a month ago after already having several Cree & SSC lights, including a Soul-mated Surefire L1.

As for Inova putting Cree's in their lights, It looks like by the timing of their K2 light releases, they were well into designing them before the Cree samples came out. And at that time the New XR-E was probably too much unknown durability-wise to count on. I'm sure Inova will upgrade when they can. Maybe they have a new contract with Luxeon, maybe not, but it is a possibility seeing as how they put an inferior Luxeon PWT3 in the X1 replacing the more efficient Nichia. Can't know for sure, but maybe they are waiting for the next gen Luxeons so they don't have to redesign their lights & reflectors so soon again. A Rebel in the X1 would bring it alive, though I'd prefer a 5 lumen 20 hour run time version.

Flashlights last dozens of years for most people, not just until the next generation of tech comes out. Before finding CPF, I had used my 3D Mag and Minimag for over a decade, so I doubt any *normal* Inova owners are even considering new flashlights anyway.


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## Hans (Jul 9, 2007)

Bror Jace said:


> ... that's a good point about using less-than-state-of-the-art technology ... but making the light ultra-reliable.



That's a very good point, and one that's all too often forgotten in the crazy pursuit of brightness and the newest technology. 

When I look at my lights, there are those lights that I view primarily as nice toys. I like playing with them, and I'll gladly use them in many non-critical applications. There's nothing like a small, ultra-bright Cree light, with various modes (including some I'll never realistically *need*). My Fenix lights fall into this category, and I really like them a lot, especially the LOD CE, my most used light. But I'm not really sure I'd trust them enough to use them as my primary lights, say on a long camping trip or a long night hike. Maybe some day, but not just yet.

And there are those lights that I view primarily as tools. Lights that were designed to work no matter what you throw at them, lights with a good track record. Many of these lights have a simple UI, and almost all of them aren't quite as bright as the newest lights on the market, like the Surefire E1L, the Inova XO and X5, the Peak Matterhorn, the Arc AAA, and even the Maglite 2C or 2D with LED insert (and a spare bulb in the tail!). All these lights have a simple UI and are IMO very reliable. BTW, my only light with a complex UI that falls into this category is the HDS with a polycarbonate lens. 

So yes - there's still plenty of room for simple, not terribly bright lights with robust construction. Lights that will always work when you need them. 

Most of the Inovas fall into this category.

Hans


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## Timson (Jul 10, 2007)

enLIGHTenment said:


> How did you get the bezel ring back in after you'd done the emitter upgrade? I'd do an emitter swap on my T3 without hesitation if I had a sure way of getting the thing back together again.




I just used a G clamp and couple of pieces of scrap wood to protect the bezel and tail threads.

I employed a second pair of hands to wind the clamp up whilst I held everything nice and square

Used a little bit of Nyogel to assist - just as Inova appear to have done upon assembly (Not only is the bezel a very snug fit, but there's an 'O' ring in there too.

PS. Don't forget to raise the emitter about 1mm for proper focus. :thumbsup:


Tim.


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## yellow (Jul 10, 2007)

They might not use the lastest emitters, but the quality is decent, output is quite good compared to other offers (for the genereal public), one of the few makers that dont incorporate silly edged whatever ideas for armchair commandos that only make lights bigger and less good to put into pocket.
Innovas are _sleek_, as Fenix' are 


city cop said:


> As far as Inova goes, I just wish they'd offer some quality holsters or open belt pouches with their lights.


I have just received two T1 2007 from batteryjunction with open belt pouches for 3,-- each.
Both are nice and bright and way better than the old T1 (but also run on two CR123s now). Unfortunately one of the leds is a crappy tint (as I just got them to be modded, not a problem).

With the old T1 I lost my tailcap some weeks ago and Inova sent me one for free, even when I just asked to purchase one ...




> How did you get the bezel ring back in after you'd done the emitter upgrade? I'd do an emitter swap on my T3 without hesitation if I had a sure way of getting the thing back together again.


Put it into a vise and screwed it in without problems.

But dont be too sure on being able to use everything after freeze popping. Circuit, original sink and reflector might be damaged
Most likely You have to build Your own sink --> which is a plus:
make it more massive, add another driver (multistage f.e.) and a better reflector from the shoppe


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## BlackDecker (Jul 10, 2007)

Someone may have already covered this in this long thread, but I'd be willing to bet Inova is not trying to cater to us self-important CPF'ers. They sell the majority of their production to the general public who don't know/care about cree's or K2's. They just want a reliable light that is a step above a Maglite.

I use my Inova X1 (series 2 5mm led) all the time. The light output is a bit bluish, but the runtime on a Sanyo Eneloop AA battery is still quite impressive. Goes with me on every backpacking trip.


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## Abrams.357 (Jul 10, 2007)

skalomax said:


> Inova Lights are great lights, bright output and very durable.
> I'm pretty sure, If a total 'noob' buys a Inova, he would be dazzled by the brightness, looks, and durabilty of It.


that was me six years ago


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## spoonrobot (Jul 10, 2007)

yellow said:


> With the old T1 I lost my tailcap some weeks ago and Inova sent me one for free, even when I just asked to purchase one ...



They sent me _two_ when I lost mine. :nana:


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## Beer (Jul 10, 2007)

Whats the point?

Dunno...but they make a damn nice light.

I LOVE my X1 it's my EDC, dim as hell but great for moving around the house at night without waking anyone up. Don't really worry about breaking it either.

My XO3 is great for every day tasks like cleaning out the shed, walking the dog, ect... It's not even close to being the brightest light I own (I now have 2 ROP's and the HF HID) But it always seems to be the one I gravitate too.

I was about .5 seconds away from buying a Fenix P2D-CE... but I couldn't pull the trigger. I have a feeling it would just sit in the drawer while I continued to use my current lights.

P.S. They both keep out water really well, I threw them into the pool couple nights ago just to see, worked so well I let all the cousins play with them while they swam.

I really want an X5 red, and a white one :devil:


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## Hodsta (Jul 10, 2007)

Beer said:


> Whats the point?
> 
> 
> I was about .5 seconds away from buying a Fenix P2D-CE... but I couldn't pull the trigger. I have a feeling it would just sit in the drawer while I continued to use my current lights.


 
So, you decided to wuss out on the pocket death ray?:nana:


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## Beer (Jul 10, 2007)

lol...yeah

Must be getting old or something. I was also about to but a 100mw green laser....untill I thought about it and KNEW I'd end up blinding myself.


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## bullinchinashop (Jul 10, 2007)

Confederate said:


> It now seems that the majority of my Inova flashlights are now obsolete. The once-powerful LED beams of light now pale next to the latest Cree technology. A small one-cell flashlight now has multiple modes and is brighter and more efficient, yet the Invoa offerings remain the same. The prices are the same, yet who would buy a T3 or T4 nowadays? The T3 now takes three cells and comes in just short of 100 lumens. Rechargeable batteries keep them from being totally obsolete, but those same rechargeable batteries will power newer, smaller, more powerful and less expensive Cree lights. As for the T4, the proprietary rechargeable battery now almost is a dinosaur.
> 
> Surefire seemingly is turning on a dime and producing good LED lights, but I see none of the new technology in the Inova line. Anyway, I was mystified by Inova's decision to go to a 3-cell light with its old technology.
> 
> ...



There's always going to be a brighter light. As soon as a company thinks they've got the brightest someone else will come out with something brighter. That would get frustrating after a while.
Inova's lights aren't the brightest bit they are amog the best at what they do: They put out a good amount of light and you don't have to sell body parts to be able to afford them (Unlike most Surefire led lights...)
The T4's battery looks like a 16850 to me...

A lot of people say that incandescent lights are obsolete but how many of us still use our 6P's? I just put a cree bulb in mine yesterday but up until then i used it with the stock bulb. And I got this light about 7 years ago. The finish is kinda messed up but it still works like a charm.
I still even use my T3 (with TIROS optics!) ocasionally


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jul 10, 2007)

I'd probably use a reflector X0 if I had one. Moonbeams and most optics don't "move" me.


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## Ilikeshinythings (Jul 10, 2007)

^^MOST optics. Apparently the aspherical lens does wonders for a mag with a drop-in LED. 

As far as Inova's are concerned, Inova puts out dependable lights that can be used by the public and also for important tactics-- military, police work and the likes. They sell a large quantity of their lights to these groups...apparently the number of lights sold to safety workers dwarfs the number bought and sold at the local target or internet retailers. I owned an X03 for a while before it was stolen, and it was a wonderful light. It ALWAYS worked when I wanted it to and I never experienced a single problem with it. I dropped it numerous times on hard surfaces and it obtained the occasional scratch or ding here and there, but never anything close to being messed up in any way. The optics were nice because they provided a great mixture of spot and flood which made it extremely useful in every day situations like walking the dog or taking out the trash at night. I can not say I agree that the T3 or X03 ever put out 100 lumens but it always did the trick and never failed me. Needless to say, I was pretty sad when somebody jacked my first light! But as most people on here would agree, it allowed me the opportunity to shop for a new one. 

My guess is that they probably haven't done enough testing to prove their reliability and they do not want to tarnish their name/reputation and possibly put peoples lives in danger by putting a possibly inferior product on the market. 

Cheers to Inova for their "steady as she goes" attitude.


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## aceo07 (Jul 11, 2007)

I've bought an XO and T2. Both are very solid and great runtimes. That's why I bought them and that's why I still like them.


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## city cop (Jul 11, 2007)

Made in the US! and mine always turn on. The absolute brightest light is not always the biggest factor for people that use them for more then just around the house or flashing them against a wall. Inova targets people that use them everyday. For people that drop them three times a night, as well as turn them on and off several times a night. And it's a great secondary impact device :twothumbs


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## ZMZ67 (Jul 11, 2007)

I still love my INOVAs! Even though I have a FenixP2D and a Lumipower D-mini my 2007T1 still ranks right up there with them. Initially I thought I would only buy the T1 in the 2007 models but after receiving it I want a T2 and maybe a T5.Efficient or not the new T series looks pretty good to me.Now I just have to find some $$$......  BTW: Woodrow check Flashlight Reviews on the T series lights. I believe you may have to "break in" some of the switches by repeated use if this doesn't solve your problem I would contact INOVA.


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## o0o (Jul 12, 2007)

I have to hand it to Inovas, they can be pretty tough.

I'm not a fan of them in general (I don't like the ringy beam my X0s produce), but I still have a couple.

I was taking the garbage out last night, and strapped on the first light that was handy--an Inova X0 in silver color. Somehow, when returning I lost my grip and it dropped right on the pavement while on (4 ft drop perhaps). Not only is it still working fine, but there isn't a stratch on it. Is the finish HA III or something? I would have expected at least a few dings or scratches. And I have had cheap LEDs fail from lesser drops before--usually due to I think broken connections and/or broken drivers.


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## Marduke (Jul 12, 2007)

I believe all Inova's use HA III.


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## Confederate (Aug 27, 2008)

Marduke said:


> I am going to venture a guess that you're the type of guy who trades in his car every year for the new model. Inova isn't in the same league as Surefire, and has to keep costs down to remain in the lower middle class flashlight market. When they can build the same flashlight with a Cree for the same price as what they are now, they'll put one in.


No, I drive my cars til they fall apart. 

As far as Surefire goes, they do make great lights, but they aren't bargains. Like my brother said about Apple, you can get anything from them except a good deal. Even their $65 G2 LEDs have the same plastic lenses. I have many Inova lights that are well made, glass lenses, built like a tank, but their runtime is terrible by today's rankings and their light output makes them fairly obsolete. I chase the balance, and it's a rugged run.

The Fenix L2D is the one I carry now and will probably be buried with, though there are many others in my collection that I like. I also can't wait to see how this Spartanian II works out. 

Inova needs to "see the light." You just can't slow down in this area or you'll get your arse handed to you.


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## Triple A (Aug 27, 2008)

ringzero said:


> Well stated, steve_vance.
> 
> I haven't been reading CPF for nearly as long as you, but I've noticed the growth of the "herd mentality" phenomena for the last year.
> 
> ...


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## Bad Voodoo (Aug 27, 2008)

Triple A said:


> Like them because they turn on when I press / twist the switch, and appreciate the made in America thing, as well.



I like the 'Made in the USA' thing too, however upon receiving my T1 today found that it was defective out of the box (bad switch).  I've been hearing a little about bad switches coming from Inova lately, too. Maybe they had a QA issue with a particular batch of them or something. 

I like custom lights personally, but thought the Inova might be a good little "go-to" light to have around the house, just because. Let's see how my replacement fairs.


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## woodrow (Aug 28, 2008)

wow.... this thread dies for a year and then comes back like a stubborn weed. I am not a huge Inova fan (though I have bought 2x X5's, a T1, T3, T4 and T5 from various years.

They are solidly built lights and other than occasionally flacky switches....they are very tough and decently bright (2008 models)

They are not cutting udge.... but us cutting edge users are not much of the market share of light users. I am looking forward to their new resin light though.

Now for a really cool light.... let me tell you about my new Duracell AA focusing light....


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## aml (Aug 28, 2008)

Uh..........the x5 runs on DEAD batteries.

my x5 will NEVER be obsolete to me.


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## L.E.D. (Aug 28, 2008)

I have all the colors of the X5, no IR version though. A few X03's as well.. They're reliable, bright enough for general to light tactical. The new K2's are pretty decent, though. I have a T1 and T4 both with extremely warm tints. Another American light that has been tempting me lately is the Streamlight Super Tac, with 135 lumens. I read on another thread that it's 135 -out the front- so it should be pretty decent..


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## GLOCK18 (Aug 28, 2008)

I have a T4 with over 1000 hours of use over the last 3 years with no issue, I would say its a great light with that much use and no issues.


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## Xak (Aug 28, 2008)

Timson said:


> I really like my T3 - but the latest and greatest do leave it looking a little on the weak side......So I've been toying with the idea of bringing my T3 up to date with a Seoul P4 emitter swap for some time, but have held off because I didn't want to do it wrong and end up destroying a perfectly functional light.
> 
> In the end (in true flashaholic style) I took the plunge went for it.
> The Freeze & Pop method worked really well without causing any damage whatsoever.
> ...


 

I've been wanting to do this to my old T3 for some time. I have an extra Seoul P4 emitter that I ordered along with my Amilite T5 just for this purpose, but have been discouraged by nay-sayers. Can you direct me to a link or directions on how to do this and what other equipment I'll need? i.e. I don't have any soldering guns, etc.

I have an MP4 (2008 T4) so I don't mind taking the chance of screwing up my old T3.

TIA


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## neoseikan (Aug 28, 2008)

The first LED light I met is a Inova X5 clone.
After a few months, I bought an Inova X0 from Ebay.
When it arrived from U.S., I felt WOW! What a great light.
I did not imagine I will built a light as good as Inova at that time.


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## Confederate (Aug 28, 2008)

They are decent lights, I'll give 'em that. But the "Made in the USA" thing goes only so far with me. My neighbor girl friend bought a U.S. car and me, well, I got a Japanese car. Within a year the seat belts needed replacing and her car seat was stuck in one position and was jammed tight. I didn't want to tell her so, but...since she never missed an opportunity.....

Runtime, quality and output are everything if you want to remain competitive. Not to disparage the company, it's as if they don't care about anything other than quality. There's the "herd" mentality and the "heard" mentality, and in a time of emergency, light becomes a limited commodity.


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## ZMZ67 (Aug 29, 2008)

Confederate said:


> They are decent lights, I'll give 'em that. But the "Made in the USA" thing goes only so far with me. My neighbor girl friend bought a U.S. car and me, well, I got a Japanese car. Within a year the seat belts needed replacing and her car seat was stuck in one position and was jammed tight. I didn't want to tell her so, but...since she never missed an opportunity.....
> 
> Runtime, quality and output are everything if you want to remain competitive. Not to disparage the company, it's as if they don't care about anything other than quality. There's the "herd" mentality and the "heard" mentality, and in a time of emergency, light becomes a limited commodity.



Have you seen the specs and reviews on the 2008 T-series? The runtime and output are actually pretty good.INOVA may not have the latest and greatest performance but they are one of the few offering high output warm tinted lights.Fenix,considered by many here as one of the most innovative companies is just now offering a warmer tinted light.I have a SF G2L but never use it,my INOVA T1s are brighter and provide a more usefull beam.


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## DanTSX (Aug 29, 2008)

Can you buy a Fenix at Target?

or anywhere else retail for that matter?



Until then, Inova is going to do just fine.


Heck you couldn't even get SF/Streamlight retail unless you went to a better firearms store until very recently, and you still cant for their better stuff.



The vast majority of people out there would never even consider buying a light online, they are just something you buy in a store. Nuts like us on the other hand overnight parts from china to build flamethowers. We are a very very small and particular minority.

And everyone should have an X5 in red. Even me. Who wants to sell me one? PM me! 1st gen or 2nd gen, I dont care, I just want.


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## DanTSX (Aug 29, 2008)

Confederate said:


> They are decent lights, I'll give 'em that. But the "Made in the USA" thing goes only so far with me. My neighbor girl friend bought a U.S. car and me, well, I got a Japanese car. Within a year the seat belts needed replacing and her car seat was stuck in one position and was jammed tight. I didn't want to tell her so, but...since she never missed an opportunity.....
> 
> Runtime, quality and output are everything if you want to remain competitive. Not to disparage the company, it's as if they don't care about anything other than quality. There's the "herd" mentality and the "heard" mentality, and in a time of emergency, light becomes a limited commodity.




That is a good analogy for many things. I am highly critical of what American auto companies put on the market to compete with the good japanese and german cars. (I wont buy an American car EVER again:sick2 But, the US can still make some seriously good products and the MADE IN USA stamp on many things still means a whole lot. Especially if the competition has a MADE IN CHINA stamp on it:sick2:

Buy your cars German, your Electronics Japanese, and your weapons American:twothumbs


American metalugry, metalcraft, and machining is much much better than anything out there for the most part. The Germans and the Japanese do some good work too, but when it comes to things you whack people upside the head with (like a e2d), America still has the biggest sack of nuts to swing.

Just no Chevys!:thumbsdown: Heck, I wont even buy a Japanese car made in America! I want the authentic Japanese cars:naughty:


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## Confederate (Aug 29, 2008)

Well, having had incandescents all my life and having seen the warm v. cool beams, my own inclination is towards the cooler, white beams. One can buy shooting glasses that give a slightly warm tint somewhat equivalent to an 85 filter. That should turn a bright white beam a warmer color, at the cost of some lumens, but that's what one sacrifices when one chooses a warm over white beam anyway.


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## toolpig1 (Aug 30, 2008)

Inova and Streamlight are at the top of my favorites list. They have both found a perfect balance of build quality, reliability, and price. I find plenty of situations where more lumens is inappropriate for the task. While having a final electric inspection done at one of my projects, the inspector asked if I happen to have a flashlight on me. These are words that every flashlightaholic loves to hear. I pulled out one of my cree based little pocket monsters and proceeded to blind both of us. The glare and reflection off the 600 amp panel was so bright, neither one of us could see what we were trying to look at. I then pulled my Inova XO from my belt and produced the perfect amount of light to see clearly.

The truth is that my brightest lights get used very little. For most tasks, I reach for my XO, XO3, Bolt AA, 4AA Propoly Luxeon, or Mag 3C with LED upgrade.


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## shomie911 (Aug 30, 2008)

aml said:


> Uh..........the x5 runs on DEAD batteries.
> 
> my x5 will NEVER be obsolete to me.



Anybody know the runtime on the X5 (with red LEDs) until 50% and to shutdown?

I was looking everywhere but I couldn't find anything specific to the red one.

Anyway, not everything is about lumens, long runtime and great build quality are far more important than a cheaply put together light with the latest emitter.


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## livewrongprojects (Aug 30, 2008)

inova builds their torches like a tank, good throw good runtime and spill and its not as expensive compared to other brands. although not as powerful as my other torches, they are still bright compared to other flashlights. i own an x1, x5 and an xo and recently a bolt 3a which i edc together with a g2l in my messenger bag, i pair the x5 and the xo with a couple of surefires whenever i go camping/ caving as they share the same battery type. the bolt is always in my bag pocket since it feels too small in my hand ( i keep it as a back up) and the x1 hanging on one of my key keepers.


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## metlarules (Aug 30, 2008)

A Inova x5 2nd gen was my 1st led light.I used it at work(cell site tech.),Its been on too numerous camping trips to count,and I use it for just about anything up close. It has never failed me and that goes along way with me.Batteries last forever and a day and like what was said before they are built like tanks. I recently bought an Inova bolt 2aa that is definitely becoming one of my favorites. As bright as I would want a single mode light for general purpose use,commonly available batteries in case I run out of eneloops,and somehow I like the form factor of this light.As far as runtime I'm not too concern with most of my lights because I like many here use rechargeables.The only lights that runtime is important to me is my emergency lights(Magled 4d,and coleman cree lantern 8d).Inovas niche in the flashlight world is a quality built general purpose light.


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## shomie911 (Aug 30, 2008)

shomie911 said:


> Anybody know the runtime on the X5 (with red LEDs) until 50% and to shutdown?
> 
> I was looking everywhere but I couldn't find anything specific to the red one.
> 
> Anyway, not everything is about lumens, long runtime and great build quality are far more important than a cheaply put together light with the latest emitter.



No one?

Atleast does anybody know if the red version has longer runtime than the white version?


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## ginaz (Aug 31, 2008)

for me, flashaholism had a certain curve to it. lumens and throw were everything at first and then i went on a modding kick, followed by a collection phase where i wanted an example of each emitter, etc etc. now i find myself appreciating a nicely tapered beam and a quality tint. i like a solid aesthetic from the build and the 2008 T2 gives me all of these. my only knock on it is that it's rechargeable ready which is (nearly) a must to me now. modes and mode mania have been a big turn off for me. i've also found 120-140 lumens to be all that i really need and that in true darkness 10 lumens is a lot. my most carried light is still my HDS B42 (seouled) followed closely by my T2 and my L2T RB80. i miss the rebel.


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## steve_vance (Aug 31, 2008)

ltiu said:


> Everyone is doing it! I automatically subtract 20% or more from the manufacturer's claims (on all the lights I own or read about) to get closer to the true lumen rating. Not an exact science.



Hey guys, no disrespect intended, but I'm a little tired of hearing about how Inova inflates their lumen numbers: several years ago Inova/Emissive Energy spent $100,000+ to buy an integrating sphere, and at that point began to test and post ACTUAL lumen output numbers on their packaging. That's why the T3 is now spec'd at 150 lumens. I recently bought several Solarforce L2s from one of my sources: it's a great light, but they advertise it at 295 lumens- it's not any brighter than my T3s. That's cuz it's 295 lumens at the emitter, but only about 140 true lumens.

I'm also surprised that no one remembers or refers to the stink from about 6 months ago. Remember when someone said that Inova would be using Crees, then I posted that this was a mistake, and that they were now using Luxeon K2- flip chips? There was a lot of discussion back and forth, but the overall concensus was that the K2-TFCCs were a substantial improvement over the LEDs Inova had been using previously? 

Hey, I love the Chinese Cree lights as much as anyone, and own more of them than probably anyone here, but have also had my share of defects and foibles with them, especially with the complicated user interfaces, to the extent that if I was going way into the backcountry, or had to trust my life to them, I'd damn sure carry an Inova as a backup. Inovas work all the time, every time, no excuses.

Just my two cents.


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## Phaserburn (Aug 31, 2008)

steve_vance said:


> Hey guys, no disrespect intended, but I'm a little tired of hearing about how Inova inflates their lumen numbers: several years ago Inova/Emissive Energy spent $100,000+ to buy an integrating sphere, and at that point began to test and post ACTUAL lumen output numbers on their packaging. That's why the T3 is now spec'd at 150 lumens. I recently bought several Solarforce L2s from one of my sources: it's a great light, but they advertise it at 295 lumens- it's not any brighter than my T3s. That's cuz it's 295 lumens at the emitter, but only about 140 true lumens.
> 
> I'm also surprised that no one remembers or refers to the stink from about 6 months ago. Remember when someone said that Inova would be using Crees, then I posted that this was a mistake, and that they were now using Luxeon K2- flip chips? There was a lot of discussion back and forth, but the overall concensus was that the K2-TFCCs were a substantial improvement over the LEDs Inova had been using previously?
> 
> ...


 
+1 - What he said. Inova makes quality lights, at reasonable prices. I love the guys who cry about a defective switch, etc. Um, Surefire hasn't had defective switches (plus a couple of other famous production issues) at three times the price?

My T1 (2008) is my go to light if I had to grab a light quick and KNOW it was going to get the job done and be incredibly sturdy to boot. The T1 feels like a solid block of AL, and has a great design and finish, too.


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## kramer5150 (Aug 31, 2008)

steve_vance said:


> Hey guys, no disrespect intended, but I'm a little tired of hearing about how Inova inflates their lumen numbers: several years ago Inova/Emissive Energy spent $100,000+ to buy an integrating sphere, and at that point began to test and post ACTUAL lumen output numbers on their packaging. That's why the T3 is now spec'd at 150 lumens. I recently bought several Solarforce L2s from one of my sources: it's a great light, but they advertise it at 295 lumens- it's not any brighter than my T3s. That's cuz it's 295 lumens at the emitter, but only about 140 true lumens.
> 
> I'm also surprised that no one remembers or refers to the stink from about 6 months ago. Remember when someone said that Inova would be using Crees, then I posted that this was a mistake, and that they were now using Luxeon K2- flip chips? There was a lot of discussion back and forth, but the overall concensus was that the K2-TFCCs were a substantial improvement over the LEDs Inova had been using previously?
> 
> ...



x2...

There is a common belief over a very large CPF population, that if a light is not MAX-brightness it has no value or practical application. Which I don't really understand. I have found just as many practical uses for ~15 Lumens ( and long run times) as 150 lumens.


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## shomie911 (Aug 31, 2008)

kramer5150 said:


> x2...
> 
> There is a common belief over a very large CPF population, that if a light is not MAX-brightness it has no value or practical application. Which I don't really understand. I have found just as many practical uses for ~15 Lumens ( and long run times) as 150 lumens.



x3

I use my 20 lumen Streamlight Microstream WAY more than any of my high output flashlights.

(btw are you a member on Head-Fi too? The name sounds familiar.)


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## DArklite (Aug 31, 2008)

shomie911 said:


> x3
> 
> I use my 20 lumen Streamlight Microstream WAY more than any of my high output flashlights.
> 
> (btw are you a member on Head-Fi too? The name sounds familiar.)



Yeah, I was wondering the same thing... if he *is* the same Kramer5150 from Head-Fi, I performed his mod on a pair of Shure e2c's a few years back and it made a world of difference :thumbsup:

Back on topic, I bought an Inova X03 in 2004 from Sharper Image when it was THE "whiz-bang" light to have. By today's standards, the OP is right.... all it offers is a hotspot with almost zero spill, and I think it's good for around 60 lumens. But's it's a hexagon-shaped body in HA natural and the beam color/quality is good, and I'll never part with it. It's got the original 2x132 batts in it and still fires up when I need it.


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## radu1976 (Aug 31, 2008)

I am one of the old TIROS generation lover 
Unfortunately, a couple of weeks ago I destroied my most beloved titanium X03 using 2RCR123 3.7V. My light blinked once and that was...dead for eternity :mecry:
Although I have quite a few CREE lights I NEED to get again a TITANIUM TIROS XO3.
I wasn't able to find something on e-bay or internet at a reasonable price , around 50$ from guys who would accept only paypal or MO and who would be available to ship to Canada...
Anyone who could help me ?


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## livewrongprojects (Aug 31, 2008)

inova makes great torches that are more than enough for most lighting jobs (im sure a lot of people will not agree to this) i go for a torch that throws enough lumens with a good runtime and of course with a good build, i mean you have to admit cr123s are expensive, who wants to use a torch with 100 lumens output just to to go to the bathroom or to find a keyhole? not unless this is the only flashlight you have then im sure you would use a light with lower output right? (then again i dont think anyone here owns only one light) inova provides the light specifications that i need, good throw with enough side spill, good runtime. im happy with this even if others think the technology inova uses is obsolete. no pun intended just my 2cents


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## The Sun (Aug 31, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Sadly, I think you're actually being serious. So I'll answer your question. I mainly use my lights for work. I patrol darkened office floors. Since I work nights, my lights fill a _need_. A toy is something for amusement. Anything that fills an actual need, that's something that doesn't fall into the "toy" category. My main work-light is a 2-C cell Maglite w/ MagLED in it. Clipped to my pants pocket, you'll usually find a Surefire L4. A back-up light to the Mag, in case the batteries die while I'm patrolling.... The last time I used it was Thursday night, while waiting for the bus. Some moron in an SUV was driving around with his lights off! I lit up his grill with a couple of rapid presses of the L4's tailcap switch. Not sure if the Driver realized I was signaling to him, considering the dirty look he and his passenger gave me as they drove by. But yeah, signaling someone to warn them.... also not something you do with a toy.
> 
> The Inova Microlight on my Key-ring which I keep clipped to my belt is there for one, and only one, reason. I work only a handful of blocks from Ground Zero. I work in a large office building. I work at a, realistically, prime spot for another Terror attack. One of the two posts I work at on alternating weeks is on the 36th floor. In case the building comes down and I need to get downstairs, I can turn on the Microlight's strobe feature so that a Firefighter can find me in the dust and darkness or office workers can find me so that I can lead them to safety. In case my other lights get damaged, I'll probably still have the Microlight clipped to my pants....
> 
> You know, it's nice that you've found something that amuses you. But like I said before.... For some of us, our lights are not "toys."


 
sorry guys that i'm joining this a little late but these comments really torqued me. i worked on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier for two years out of a total seven years in the Navy. i did and still do depend on my lights with my life and i can tell you one of the lights i would NEVER depend on is a mag!!! i'm sorry but i have seen first hand what they are capable of in extreme conditions, and that ain't much!!!! i am not talking about one, or two with problems i'm talkin a whole F/18 hornet squadrons worth! they sucked so bad they could have sucked the devil outta hell. when we would go out for a cruise we would all get brand new 2-C cell mags, two weeks into cruise they would be shot, and we would be writing/calling home to get someone to send us our own lights. when you work on a flight deck in the middle of the ocean/gulf/sea for six to eight months during night operations you kinda have to depend on your light. i love inova lights and i have had infinitely better results with them than the mags. later in my military carrier when i was ACTUALLY hunting down terrorists in their homes/caves i carried an inova as a backup, but primarily depended on some of the lights referred to as "toys" without reserve, and can attest to the functionality/durability firsthand (i.e. combat, life or death, extreme situations). i love to support my country (getting shot at, possibly dying for it) and buy American made. but when you don't really know where you are, and you have a job to do primarily at night, and life/lives are in the balance it doesn’t matter to you where your gear is made. what matters is that you have tested it thoroughly, know how to use it properly, and pick the right tool for the job. ask any operator and they will tell you that they don't take any gear with them that they haven't beat the holy ever livin' crap out of first! so, i would say to anyone "go ahead and carry your mag, and i'll come save ya with my fenix TK11/TK10." i'm not saying go out and buy every chinese light ever made, but come on! i'm not gonna risk my life on a light (or anything else for that matter) just because its made in the U.S.A. (referring to comments made earlier by others). i can name a thousand products that the government/military uses that aren't made in the USA that peoples lives depend on everyday. one: fuel/drop tanks on a F/18 hornet (made in Israel, go figure) you kinda need fuel. the whole point is, this forum is about friendly flashlight users sharing a common interest, and finding what’s best for them. not a my light is better, and my job is more dangerous "my life depends on it" than yours. if that’s in the context of some kind of review or testament to durability then fine, but you don't have to put people down. and, BTW if anyone read that and decided for themselves it is a good idea to shine even a cheap $0.02 flashlight at a moving vehicle i would suggest donating all you all of your lights to charity. the reason you got a nasty look from the passenger of that vehicle is because you were more of a hazard than the vehicle itself. there are actually laws against doing just that in some states. if that were me in that car i would have stopped and beat the crap outta you, then after walking back to the running car and realizing my lights were off, i would shoot you the bird, turn my lights on, and drive away. that’s like shinning lasers at people. some think its funny, but go try being in combat and see how funny it is then. all i'm saying is keep it real, and don't be an ***! or a dead horse.:laughing:


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## The Sun (Aug 31, 2008)

...rant


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## thelightdude (Aug 31, 2008)

steve_vance said:


> Hey, I love the Chinese Cree lights as much as anyone, and own more of them than probably anyone here, but have also had my share of defects and foibles with them, especially with the complicated user interfaces, to the extent that if I was going way into the backcountry, or had to trust my life to them, I'd damn sure carry an Inova as a backup. Inovas work all the time, every time, no excuses.
> 
> Just my two cents.



I agree 

When the "good deals" section said Inova lights were half price at Sports Authority I bought a bunch of them.


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## DArklite (Aug 31, 2008)

radu1976 said:


> I am one of the old TIROS generation lover
> Unfortunately, a couple of weeks ago I destroied my most beloved titanium X03 using 2RCR123 3.7V. My light blinked once and that was...dead for eternity :mecry:
> Although I have quite a few CREE lights I NEED to get again a TITANIUM TIROS XO3.
> I wasn't able to find something on e-bay or internet at a reasonable price , around 50$ from guys who would accept only paypal or MO and who would be available to ship to Canada...
> Anyone who could help me ?



You're in luck:
http://www.theledlight.com/inova_XO3.html


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## dcbeane (Aug 31, 2008)

$73.50 ? 

I bought one of those here on the forum for....20something$$.
 
 Keep look'n.


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## StandardBattery (Aug 31, 2008)

I don't reach for my Inova lights much any more, but they make nice loaners because they are easy to use, and tough. I still like my X03, and my X1 (G3). I may have got a good G3, as most people don't like theirs. I gave away my G2 when I got the G3. I don't reach for the X1 much anymore as I usually use a multimode light when I need lower output, but because it is AA, tough, and nice for low level night time stuff or close up work I keep it handy.

Some of the new AA models they have announced look interesting, but right now I'm looking at other lights. I'm also interested in an X5 Red, so I may end up with a new Inova in the near future. 

I also appreciate the fact I can get them at Target, or send someone else to Target to pick one up.


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## shomie911 (Aug 31, 2008)

StandardBattery said:


> *I'm also interested in an X5 Red, so I may end up with a new Inova in the near future.*




I still want to know how long a X5 Red lasts on a pair of CR123s and if it can take 17670s and work. I can't find that information anywhere.

Anyone know?


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## Monocrom (Aug 31, 2008)

*The Sun - * "_I hate Monocrom"._
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Sweet! A new member for the "I-Hate-Monocrom Fan club."

Welcome aboard! 
Membership includes a Decoder ring, a 2-C Maglite, and a lesson on how to use the "Enter" key on your keyboard for posting purposes. 

Congrats!


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## Snow (Aug 31, 2008)

I haven't read the whole thread, but the bottom line for me is that my '08 T1 is one of my most solid lights with a great brightness level, long runtime, and excellent tint. It has no peers in the market and will never leave my collection.


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## The Sun (Aug 31, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> *The Sun - *"_I hate Monocrom"._
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Sweet! A new member for the "I-Hate-Monocrom Fan club."
> 
> ...


 
i dont hate you. i just think your comments are ignorant, and your gear will fail when you need it. i don't wish that on anyone, thats just how it is.


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## herolet (Aug 31, 2008)

My experience with Nova isn't that positive. Bought an X1 about 2 years before I knew CPF. It was my brightest small light then, looked very tough. But It didn't survive one accidental drop from my shirt pocket to the hard floor. Everything looked fine after the drop, but it didn't turn on anymore. Checked everything, no luck. Threw it into a trash can. That's it. I guess something looks like a tank isn't really a tank after all. 

I also bought 4 Deal Extreme Romisen RC-G 1AA lights and put them inside the house. After a few month, 2 of them went dead for no reasons, although these Romisen 1AA looks pretty tough.

In comparison, my 4 Fenix lights (P3D, T1, L2D, L0D) don't look tough (except T1), but I have had no problems at all. Even my Surefire lights (Z2L, L1, C2, 6P) don't look as tough as X1, but they all work flawlessly. I actually intentionally dropped the C2 (with Malkoff dropin) numerous times just to show off in front of my friends. It's still working perfectly.

I guess my point is, with my limited experience, Inova lights may not be as tough as they look. Sometimes, the tough looking can be deceptive.


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## Monocrom (Aug 31, 2008)

The Sun said:


> i dont hate you. i just think your comments are ignorant, and your gear will fail when you need it. i don't wish that on anyone, thats just how it is.


 
Well, had you been on CPF longer you'd know about the horrible failure I had years ago with a 3D Maglite that literally fell apart in my hands while I was inspecting it. You'd know that I _always_ recommend having a backup light when using a Maglite. You'd also know the type of reputation I've earned on these boards over the years.

But no skin off of my back.... I'll still be here long after you're gone.


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## The Sun (Aug 31, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Well, had you been on CPF longer you'd know about the horrible failure I had years ago with a 3D Maglite that literally fell apart in my hands while I was inspecting it. You'd know that I _always_ recommend having a backup light when using a Maglite. You'd also know the type of reputation I've earned on these boards over the years.
> 
> But no skin off of my back.... I'll still be here long after you're gone.


 
you're probably right. you are so cool :thumbsup:. i love to use equipment that i know has a good probability of failure. like you mentioned earlier you have your backup so a fireman can come save you, i guess thats the difference between a cool guy like you with a CPF "reputation" and a guy like me. you, have your backup so someone can come save you. a guy like me with my CPF "short time" would save myself then, go help others (read: guys like you). i have a backup as well, though i've never had to use it in all my experience, funny how that works out when you're prepared. BTW your life only depends on the tools you have in your hands to a certain extent, the majority depends on the tool you have in your head. so, i guess in your case no matter what a "tool" YOU are, i mean use they will all be unreliable and eventually useless.

i have a "reputation," as well...in the real world, for being reliable, looking out for my team, being fearless in the face of danger, and not dying. but, you being a CPF member for SO long has to count for something...i guess:thumbsup:. i didn't know we were here to make imaginary "REPUTATIONS..." i thought we were here on CPF to discuss similar interests, i guess i'll have to try harder. carry on... in the interests of the post i have carried an inova X0 as a backup since they came out (i've had three of them, not the lights fault) and i can attest to their durability.


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## Marduke (Aug 31, 2008)




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## The Sun (Aug 31, 2008)

ya know


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## Monocrom (Aug 31, 2008)

Marduke said:


>


 
But he's such a cute little guy. 

Still, I guess you're right. 

The funny part is, he doesn't realize you were refering to him as the troll.


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## The Sun (Aug 31, 2008)

sorry i guess i thought i was dealing with common sense. just one more example of how much the world is lacking that. just keep doing what your doing everything will be fine :thumbsup: your the new guy :welcome:


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## Marduke (Aug 31, 2008)

The Sun said:


> sorry i guess i thought i was dealing with common sense. just one more example of how much the world is lacking that. just keep doing what your doing everything will be fine :thumbsup: your the new guy :welcome:



Careful pointing around that finger towards "ignorant comments", because every time you do 3 more point right back at you.

Monocrom has probably forgotten more about flashlights than you will ever know.


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## The Sun (Aug 31, 2008)

why PM me, post them in the open

your not the only one laughin, i'll post you a pic. of my DD-214 but you probably wouldn't know what that is. you sound alone and bald...i forgot except for your CPF buddies, hows life as a rent-a-cop, wannabe. i didn't know there was a "veteran post handbook" i needed to follow, i'm just posting the truth, but you wouldn't know what that looks like either judging by the your comments, carrier, and attitude. honor, courage, and commitment are obviously, not your at your core values. i took those values with me from my experiences. what did you take, coffee and doughnuts. your a poser...


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## shomie911 (Aug 31, 2008)

Weren't we talking about Inova flashlights a little bit ago? I can't tell anymore.

:laughing:


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## Monocrom (Aug 31, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Monocrom has probably forgotten more about flashlights than you will ever know.


 
Good point.

I actually forgot how well my Inova X5 works on "dead" cells. It's a runtime champ.... Best not to forget to put the cells in "backwards."


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## The Sun (Aug 31, 2008)

people like you put good peoples lives in danger. people like you are the reason good people i cared about are no longer with us. so, in reality your tools are a direct reflection of yourselves. you both would fold under extreme pressure just like those worthless mags.:welcome:

my cells aren't backwards you are brother. and the whole point of a backup is to get you out in a pinch, not run for days. baaaahhhaaaahhhh (sheep)


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## shomie911 (Sep 1, 2008)

The Sun said:


> people like you put good peoples lives in danger. people like you are the reason good people i cared about are no longer with us. so, in reality your tools are a direct reflection of yourselves. you both would fold under extreme pressure just like those worthless mags.:welcome:
> 
> my cells aren't backwards you are brother. and the whole point of a backup is to get you out in a pinch, not run for days. baaaahhhaaaahhhh (sheep)



What's the whole point of this argument?

It's like an internet pissing match.


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

shomie911 said:


> It's like an internet pissing match.


 
Not anymore. I moved on after Marduke made it obvious I was dealing with a troll.


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## steveG (Sep 1, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Good point.
> 
> I actually forgot how well my Inova X5 works on "dead" cells. It's a runtime champ.... Best not to forget to put the cells in "backwards."




Interesting. I've been looking around for a light to kill my "dead" cells. Is this a good light for it?


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## The Sun (Sep 1, 2008)

p.s.

i'm not pretending to know everything about flashlights, just what flashlights i have used in real world situations, and have failed miserably, i'm posting this info. to help others. and, BTW my socks have worked, and served this country the United States of America longer, harder, and better than both of you every have. i'm not concerned with what cool guy has forgotten about flashlights. what concerns me is what he has forgotten about life, and the fact that someone has employed him to protect person, or property (questionable)...or watch a monitor whilst munching a doughnut of five.:laughing:


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## shomie911 (Sep 1, 2008)

The Sun said:


> p.s.
> 
> i'm not pretending to know everything about flashlights, just what flashlights i have used in real world situations, and have failed miserably, i'm posting this info. to help others. and, BTW my socks have worked, and served this country the United States of America longer, harder, and better than both of you every have. i'm not concerned with what cool guy has forgotten about flashlights. what concerns me is what he has forgotten about life, and the fact that someone has employed him to protect person, or property (questionable)...or watch a monitor whilst munching a doughnut of five.:laughing:



Seriously, what did he ever do to you?


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## techwg (Sep 1, 2008)

My only experience with Inova, has been with the X5 and X0.

The first one i bought was the X5, which looked cool, and i was excited, until i turned it on.. what a dissapointment. I went to my parents, and ended up showing them the light, and telling them all about it trying to convince myself its a good light.. But i was mortified with it. 2 cr's and only that ammount of light?

The second experience was much more positive, and this was the X0 wht one with the weird TRIOS lense or what ever it is. It was much brighter, felt like a high quality piece of gear, and i enjoyed it for quite a while, until i gave it away and convinced myself i dont need that much power, that i can make do with a smaller light. But... After that crap smaller light, i went onto cree Fenix lights and never looked back. 

My bro still has the X0 and likes it. Even now, i know its a good light on primaries, but with the advances in LED tech, i would not use it, its too wasteful on batteries. I also use AW RCR123 batteries, and with my fenix P3D Q5, i get more light on medium mode, for more hours even on RCR than with primaries in the Inova X0, and if i use primaries in the P3D well... runtimes blow the X0 away completely. However the X0 did have a lovely beam.


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

steveG said:


> Interesting. I've been looking around for a light to kill my "dead" cells. Is this a good light for it?


 
Oh definitely! The runtime is incredible. Obviously the output will be dimmer than if you were using new cells in an X5. But even on supposedly dead cells, you still get a very useful amount of light. 

Before I got a Malkoff M60 for my Surefire C2, I'd take the "dead" cells from it and pop them into my X5. The cells just didn't have enough "juice" to power my C2. But that wasn't the case with my X5. 

However, best to use dead cells from a 2xCR123 cell light in an X5. Not good to mix and match two partially depleted cells from two different lights. 

Best part is, you can get Inova lights from just about any Target store.


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## The Sun (Sep 1, 2008)

shomie911 said:


> Seriously, what did he ever do to you?


 

it wasn't what he did to me that started all this, it was the way he was talking to someone else. but he's the cool CPF "flashlight king" that would rather people listen to him go on about his wasted life, and worthless experience than helpfull information. sorry for trying to defend someone. you will find sometimes rent-a-cops over compensate for the power they wish they had.


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## The Sun (Sep 1, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Oh definitely! The runtime is incredible. Obviously the output will be dimmer than if you were using new cells in an X5. But even on supposedly dead cells, you still get a very useful amount of light.
> 
> Before I got a Malkoff M60 for my Surefire C2, I'd take the "dead" cells from it and pop them into my X5. The cells just didn't have enough "juice" to power my C2. But that wasn't the case with my X5.
> 
> ...


 
i agree, you are so cool:thumbsup:


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## Marduke (Sep 1, 2008)

The Sun said:


> it wasn't what he did to me that started all this, it was the way he was talking to someone else.



Did they teach you how to read in basic, because the person you were supposedly defending didn't see it the way you did.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2072056#post2072056

BTW, how you talk to him and other members here is far more questionable that his original comment.

Of all people, someone in the military should know the pitfalls of defending someone who doesn't want or need "defending"


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## The Sun (Sep 1, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Did they teach you how to read in basic, because the person you were supposedly defending didn't see it the way you did.
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2072056#post2072056
> 
> BTW, how you talk to him and other members here is far more questionable that his original comment.
> ...


 
i took that response as trying to avoid conflict, but whatever read the posts before that. everybody needs defense from someone like you, and it doesn't matter how much you try to talk your way out of it, that fact will still remains. questions are what this "forum" is all about its a "forum" for discussion. not a "forum" for jumping down peoples throats for asking those questions. its only because you think you are "king flashlight," and your job entittles you to know something, capt. danger. you just may NOT know everything about flashlights. i know that would crush your soul, but it's great possibility.

and BTW... everyone with a good and kind heart tries to defend everybody no matter if they want, or need it from the "tyranny of evil men," along with selfish tiraids, and ignorant hurtful words.


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## sabre7 (Sep 1, 2008)

Hey Troll, nobody cares what you have to say.  Take your rotten attitude down to the corner bar, maybe there you can get the punch in the nose you are looking for. Why haven't the Mods given this guy his 2nd dishonorable discharge?


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## The Sun (Sep 1, 2008)

:shakehead

p.s.

and that would be honorable discharge get it right. you people make me sick. you need a foot in your a$$


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## techwg (Sep 1, 2008)

Oh my, what wonderful things can be brought into a perfectly good thread... Please can we get to the point here and be done with what ever the problem is? Maybe i'm just not paying enough attention to the drama, but im sure its something that you could drop, so we can talk about flashlights.


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## carrot (Sep 1, 2008)

I didn't bother reading all five pages but just because there is newer and better does not make something any less useful than when you bought it. It is still the same light.


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## ginaz (Sep 1, 2008)

steveG said:


> Interesting. I've been looking around for a light to kill my "dead" cells. Is this a good light for it?



i could be wrong but i believe the x5 red uses one cell while the white uses 2. anyone who can verify?


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## Robocop (Sep 1, 2008)

This thread has swayed way off topic and as such seems to simply now be a source of drama. Sadly many threads are closed to prevent further disruption and this one stands to suffer the same result.

The Sun I will say we do appreciate your contributions to your country and if you are a true professional surely you understand how to conduct yourself. Your recent comments are bordering on baiting and the general attitude is unlike a true professional. Again we welcome new members however we do not welcome baiting or other drama.

I do appreciate the many members attempting to keep this thread on track and as such I will leave it open for now. And to The Sun from one professional to another I will ask you to please tone down your comments. You will be given one warning as well as any others who attempt to bait this thread into a train wreck.


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## chesterqw (Sep 1, 2008)

well... everyone would love to have a cree in those inova right?


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

chesterqw said:


> well... everyone would love to have a cree in those inova right?


 
To be honest, I'd rather they'd come with a Seoul than a Cree.

A brighter version of my Novatac 120P, in the body of the T3 model. One mode is fine by me, as long as it's bright as Hell!


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## MarNav1 (Sep 1, 2008)

I prefer the Seoul as well, or they could offer both. Not likely I know but whilst I'm dreaming............ I have several Inova's and they seem okay to me so far. An unprotected 17670 even fits in the X5, dont know about any others though. I like the little keychain light too.


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## DArklite (Sep 1, 2008)

techwg said:


> My only experience with Inova, has been with the X5 and X0.
> 
> The first one i bought was the X5, which looked cool, and i was excited, until i turned it on.. what a dissapointment. I went to my parents, and ended up showing them the light, and telling them all about it trying to convince myself its a good light.. But i was mortified with it. 2 cr's and only that ammount of light?



Thanks for the memory jog  because come to think of it... I also have an original X5 that I bought when they first came out that has been sitting in my desk drawer... and that one also has only the 2nd set of primary CR123's in it and still fires up too. At the time, it DID seem to put out alot of light (for an LED light, but then again, so did the Turtlelight I bought) and it felt good and solid in the hand and looked good too. It doesn't really get used anymore but since the shelf life of primaries are so good, I figure it's just one more light to have around in the event of a power falure. I guess it's time to pop in some new batts, they've been in there about 4-5 years now.


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## steveG (Sep 1, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Oh definitely! The runtime is incredible. Obviously the output will be dimmer than if you were using new cells in an X5. But even on supposedly dead cells, you still get a very useful amount of light.
> 
> Before I got a Malkoff M60 for my Surefire C2, I'd take the "dead" cells from it and pop them into my X5. The cells just didn't have enough "juice" to power my C2. But that wasn't the case with my X5.
> 
> ...



Roger on all of that. Thanks! I'll get one soon. You said you used the X5 before you got the M60. Does that mean the M60 drains the batteries completely? 


My take on Inova:

My first 2 "high-quality" lights were an XO and a Bolt 2L (2xCR123). I bought both planning on returning one. The Both were good lights. I really liked the XO but the momentary switch was akward to push and I, just not a fan of the twist-on tailcap. It just doesn't serve any purpose for me. The dimensions I liked and it's a very comfortable light to hold. he Bolt had a click-on switch and was more comfortable to hold, but It just didn't have that confidence inspiring feel to it. I started reading here, did some research and decided to return them both and buy a Surfire 6PL. After owning it for a while I wished I had kept the XO. Mostly because of the size. It's a great light. I love it and will keep it forever, but the XO was just more practical. 

Fast forward a couple months. I recently found the 2007 T2 on Amazon for $31.48 each shipped to my door. I ordered 5 of them to give as Christmas presents (one for me). Damn is this a nice light. No it's not the biggest, baddest, brightest light, but it's is a great light for sure. It's got everything the XO needed to make it a great light. The knurling is perfect, the momentary/click-on switch is exactly what I want. I would REALLY like to have a 2008 T1. The size and shapes seems like it would make a great light for someone that either takes their light in and out of their pocket often or needs to get it out in a hurry.


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## toolpig1 (Sep 1, 2008)

I'm sure if Inova came out with Cree based lights, they would sell plenty. I'm still happy with my fleet of "obsolete" models such as XO3 (Tiros), T4 (Tiros), XO, and 2AA Bolt. I've collected my share of flashlights that pump out 150, 200, 300 lumens...but they don't seem to be the ones that I really use on a daily basis. I'm in construction and frequently climb through attics, search basement framing for shut-off valves and you name it. I find the lights that produce 50 to 80 lumens to be the ideal brightness. Besides, like many of us on CPF, what are you supposed to do with all these lights when something brighter comes out. I've already given away more flashlights than most sane people will ever own.


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## sabre7 (Sep 1, 2008)

toolpig1 said:


> Besides, like many of us on CPF, what are you supposed to do with all these lights when something brighter comes out. I've already given away more flashlights than most sane people will ever own.



List them at a reasonable discount on CPF Marketplace. Someone else is probably interested in the versions you no longer use.


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

steveG said:


> Roger on all of that. Thanks! I'll get one soon. You said you used the X5 before you got the M60. Does that mean the M60 drains the batteries completely?


 
Yup. I ran a runtime test on the M60 shortly after I got it. Gene is spot-on about what you can expect to get. Full brightness for the first 1 1/2 hours. Lesser but still useable output into the 4 hour mark. By the time you reach 7 hours, you get the type of output and beam that you'd expect from a Maglite Solitaire focused to eliminate the infamous donut hole that all Mags put out.

I stopped the testing after 7 1/2 hours since it became obvious that the M60 simply would not die. 

I highly recommend any of Gene's handmade creations. Best part is, they're as close to a perfect fit in a Surefire light as you're likely to find on the Aftermarket. There is a very tiny gap after installing a Malkoff drop-in, and screwing down the head. This gap is normal, and barely visible. Unless you know to look for it, you'll likely miss it. The gap is there for heat dissipation.

One thing I feel is false advertising is when an Aftermarket company says that their drop-in is P60 compatible, and it does indeed fit inside a Surefire head.... But when you screw the head back on the body, it only screws down half-way because the drop-in is too long. And sometimes when you remove the outer spring, it actually doesn't help. No such ridiculous headaches with Gene's creations. 

I still have my X5 since I own many CR123-based lights, some of them incas.


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## Phaserburn (Sep 1, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> I still have my X5 since I own many CR123-based lights, some of them *incas*.


 
Me too, but I've already sold all my Aztec and Mayan lights.

Sorry, really. I couldn't resist.

:tinfoil:


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## Monocrom (Sep 1, 2008)

Phaserburn said:


> Me too, but I've already sold all my Aztec and Mayan lights.
> 
> Sorry, really. I couldn't resist.
> 
> :tinfoil:


 
Aww.... You should have kept at least one. I know I did.


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## Fenris (Sep 1, 2008)

shomie911 said:


> I still want to know how long a X5 Red lasts on a pair of CR123s and if it can take 17670s and work. I can't find that information anywhere.
> 
> Anyone know?



The red X5 is a one cell light. A 17670 won't fit.


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## techwg (Sep 1, 2008)

Fenris said:


> The red X5 is a one cell light. A 17670 won't fit.



1 cell? the X5 series were 2 cell Cr123 lights.


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## Marduke (Sep 1, 2008)

techwg said:


> 1 cell? the X5 series were 2 cell Cr123 lights.




Most, but the red is a single CR123


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 1, 2008)

I'm still hoping to see Inova put new DS or GS (or something with a nicer tint than stock nichias) and bring out the next versionof the X5.
One of my first real quality LED lights was an original Inova X03. I don't keep it ready for use anymore, but that light and I went through so much I can't let it go. It survived quite a bit of abuse. 

I've been incredibly critical of the 2007 Inova line of lights but have high hopes for Inova's future products. Their 2008's have definitely been a step in the right direction, and I hope they continue to improve. I'm cheering for them, as there are few quality American companies with the potential to make high quality lights.​


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## cyberindie (Sep 2, 2008)

INova are excellent tough flashlights - I've a T4 and X5.

However I've also a Fenix P3D Q5 and Wolf Eyes Storm Q5 HO. Both are Chinese and I guess what are considered toys on this forum.

However they seem fairly well made and reliable - I've not had them long enough to say for sure.

Curious to know if there's anyone out there using Fenix or Wolf Eye's out there in the real world in tough situations? Can they be relied on or are they really just toys for round the house?


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## Marduke (Sep 2, 2008)

Check out the Fenix P3D and T1 abuse threads.


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## Monocrom (Sep 2, 2008)

cyberindie said:


> INova are excellent tough flashlights - I've a T4 and X5.
> 
> However I've also a Fenix P3D Q5 and Wolf Eyes Storm Q5 HO. Both are Chinese and I guess what are considered toys on this forum.
> 
> ...


 
No one really considers those brands to be toys. I own a handful of Fenix models. All are bright and generally well-built. 

Robocop, a moderator on CPF and a real LEO, uses a Wolf-Eyes Raider model on the job. He also keeps another W.E. model in his work bag.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 2, 2008)

cyberindie said:


> INova are excellent tough flashlights - I've a T4 and X5.
> 
> However I've also a Fenix P3D Q5 and Wolf Eyes Storm Q5 HO. Both are Chinese and I guess what are considered toys on this forum.
> 
> ...


Wolf-Eyes are way above Fenix when it comes to toughness.


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## woodrow (Sep 2, 2008)

I am not a huge fan of Alkalines in cold weather, incan bulbs, or lights that mainly like to run on primary 123a's over 18650's. I prefer using lithiums over nimh batteires. So, Inova and Maglight are not currently lights that I own or carry. That being said....

This week, I (hopefully) should have a Raidfire Spear and Olight M20 showing up into my mailbox. I have owned a few Maglights and several Inova's. I am very sure I am going to like these two Chinese lights Much more than the Inova's and an incredibly huge amount more than the Maglights I have owned.

That being said... the Spear and the M20 were over $200 together and are unknown lights to me. Hopefully the switches will work, hopefully the lights will function properly, but if I were leaving for Greenland tomorrow, and these were going to be the only lights I could take with me.... I would be very nervous.

I also believe I could go to Wal-Mart and buy 30 Maglights and most likely have 0 problems with any of them. Most of my Inova's have been utterly reliable (I think I have had 2x X5's, a T1, T3, T4, and T5) My T3's switch was a little flakey.. but it never left me in the dark.

So while many of us here may like many of the new HO Chinese lights... those of us who have been arround for a while, know not to dissrespect tried and true designes (that have been proved hundreds of thousands if not millions of times over) and are used successfully by LE, Military and Industrial workers all over the world for years.

I do not own any Inova's or Maglight's at the momment, but If I bought either... I would with 99.9% certianty expect light to come out when I pushed the button....and isin't that the main point?


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## sol-leks (Sep 2, 2008)

My friend recently purchases an inova x03 from target and lent it to me to play with, its actually a very nice light. It claims 80 lumens but is as bright as my fenix e20, can't really tell which is brighter. It has a nice solid build, although the tail button isn't great. The beam is a bit yellowish but very soft and quite pleasing actually. Very nice smooth beam pattern, built for flood. It gets warm with use. Overall though, its quite a nice light albeit a bit overpriced. Inova's seem to be quite good, especially considering what is available to the the regular status quo.


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## cslinger (Sep 2, 2008)

I just want a single cell T1 again. Is that so much to ask for? :0(


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## tekguy (Sep 2, 2008)

What is the point? what points doesnt inova cover. most of the lights are bada$$.


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 2, 2008)

cslinger said:


> I just want a single cell T1 again. Is that so much to ask for? :0(



I agree.
Personally I'd also like to see the old Inova X1 back; the nice "moon" beam... just toss in an updated 5mm LED for more bright while still keeping the great runtime.


In the past I used my old X03 for SAR; gave it quite a workout and it never failed me. I definitely trust that light with my life.


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## StandardBattery (Sep 2, 2008)

It looks like the 2008 K2 based Inova T series is getting lots of good reactions. That new Olight M20 might give them a run for the money with the LEO and Rescue professionals though.


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## Monocrom (Sep 3, 2008)

cslinger said:


> I just want a single cell T1 again. Is that so much to ask for?


 
I know what you mean.

While Inova has improved some models, a couple of the good, older ones got scraped.

When I found out that the 3rd Gen. Inova X1 was a bit brighter than the 2nd Gen. version, I was happy.... Until I learned that runtime had been cut by nearly half! 

I went to the nearest Target, found a 2nd Gen. X1, and bought it on the spot; because I knew there wouldn't be any more.


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## Robocop (Sep 3, 2008)

I will say one thing for the Inova line of lights is that while they are all very rugged lights the older versions seemed to be more rugged. I have opened hundreds of lights and have always been able to do so with little to no damage to the light....that is until I tried my luck with the older original X5.

Remember the original X5 with the fluted lines along the body. That light was simply a beast to open and after several years of carry it never failed me. I decided to try and swap the LEDs and after literally 4 hours of cursing, wrenching with vice grips, hammering, and heating I was exhausted and still did not open that light.

If I remember correct even the great McGizmo with all of his modding skills and tools he also eventually gave up and cut his open.....that was indeed one of the toughest designs I have seen to date.

While I do now carry a Wolf-Eyes on duty as well as a back up duty bag light I have carried many others as well. I will say my SureFire I finally retired had much better glass material for the lens and the anodizing seemed to hold up better. My Wolf-Eyes simply makes more light while keeping the same runtime and size package as my old Commander. It also thus far seems to have the same reliability and has never failed me however it has suffered many broken lenses....until I figured a way to use a different lens now it works as I need it to.

I also carried a newer generation X5 for about a year until I replaced that with my TW4. The X5 was perfect for interior vehicle searches when I needed just enough light to see as my main duty light was actually too bright at times for that purpose. That X5 is still going strong however now keeps watch over my bedside as a night light....and it seems to go forever on drained batteries however that is already well known about the X5s.

I do know one officer who carried an X0 on duty (as a primary duty light) and it has never failed to function. I will say while a good product he has complained when searching larger areas as it just does not have the spread as other officers high power incandescent lights. It does fine for him on traffic stops however in the city environment the ambient lighting kind of makes it look a little weak.


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## ZMZ67 (Sep 3, 2008)

The latest version of the X1 doesn't seem to be a very good light but I am still very pleased with the T1 and T2(2008 models).I did some comparisons in the woods over the weekend between the INOVA T1 and SF G2L.The T1 is a little brighter but both flashlights provided a lot of light.The warm output of the T1 made details in the area being lit stand out better.The G2L was pretty decent but I prefer the warmer tint of the T1.The T1 is also more pocketable than the G2L and seems to be the most convenient tailswitch light to use(that I own anyway).Although I didn't compare it as much against the G2L the tint on the T2 is similar to the T1.The T2 was noticably brighter than the both the T1 and G2L and provided better throw than either light.


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## cyberindie (Sep 3, 2008)

Robocop - sounds like the Wolf-Eyes lenses are a bit fragile!

I've a fairly new ( and untested ) Wolf-Eyes Storm Q5. Wondering where you finally got a good quality replacement lense from?


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## Phaserburn (Sep 3, 2008)

Why wish for the old one cell T1 back? The new one that uses two cells is about the same size as the old; it's like having your spare battery on board. By using a buck circuit instead of a boost, the T1 gets that great 4hr runtime and super flat regulation.


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## cslinger (Sep 3, 2008)

I just prefer single CR123 lights.

Chris


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 3, 2008)

Phaserburn said:


> Why wish for the old one cell T1 back? The new one that uses two cells is about the same size as the old; it's like having your spare battery on board. By using a buck circuit instead of a boost, the T1 gets that great 4hr runtime and super flat regulation.



Versatility. The thing is if you only happen to have one good cell a 2-cell light is kind of useless. They already have a 2xCR123 light. I'd think it makes sense to have the T1 use 1 cell, T2 use 2 cells and the T3 use 3 cells. Maybe I'm just crazy.


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## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2008)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Versatility. The thing is if you only happen to have one good cell a 2-cell light is kind of useless. They already have a 2xCR123 light. I'd think it makes sense to have the TK1 use 1 cell, TK2 use 2 cells and the TK3 use 3 cells. Maybe I'm just crazy.


 
Not crazy.... But you seem to have an extra letter on the mind. (K?).


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 4, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Not crazy.... But you seem to have an extra letter on the mind. (K?).



Ah yea, guess I do I'll fix it thanks.


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## Robocop (Sep 4, 2008)

Cyberindie I am not sure if I would say fragile however I would say the D36 lens is easier to break than my old Commander. When I removed the shattered lens it was very thick and did not actually break all the way through however it was badly cracked. This was my biggest complaint in this certain light was that there was no way to simply change out the lens.....you have to buy an entire new bezel and I bought 3 of them. I am not sure how SF makes there glass lenses but they are a great quality lens. My Commander never had one break and it had been dropped and even thrown many times.

I found a way to actually use a spare lens from my Peak First Responder on my Raider. It fit perfectly and is not a glass lens so no fear of breaking. It is held in place by simple pressure of screwing down the bezel however thus far it has worked fine and no more costly bezels to buy.


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## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2008)

Robocop said:


> Cyberindie I am not sure if I would say fragile however I would say the D36 lens is easier to break than my old Commander. When I removed the shattered lens it was very thick and did not actually break all the way through however it was badly cracked. This was my biggest complaint in this certain light was that there was no way to simply change out the lens.....you have to buy an entire new bezel and I bought 3 of them.


 
Definitely a bit disappointing to hear. But thanks for the honest comments about your experience with the W.E. lenses.


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## cyberindie (Sep 4, 2008)

I'm not sure which Wolf-Eyes light you've got Robocop but certainly the Storm has a very large glass lense - that larger area is definately at more risk of breaking than a smaller light.

Sounds like you have a fairly active job - so I guess the light gets a reasonable battering?

Also I was wondering where you bought the new Wolf Eyes bezels from?


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## Robocop (Sep 4, 2008)

I bought the Bezels from one of our dealers here known as Pacific Tactical Solutions. I am not complaining about the quality as I really do like my current duty light. It was a good buy for the money and puts out a large amount of light and the tint is very white for an incandescent. All of the Wolf-Eyes lights I own seem to have this great tint...(not as brown as others I have tried)

I believe the maker is using a sealed lens for better protection from the elements however it seems this may make the glass easier to break or crack due to an impact. They do offer a different bezel made for more shock resistance I believe however I have the D36 version...(36mm) 

Maybe their newer products are different or maybe they are using different tempered glass. Like I said the glass on my D36 bezels was plenty thick however it still suffered from cracks after extended carry. I do see plenty of action on duty and working at nights I use my lights very often. The bezels on my D36 lights were dropped plenty of times and eventually cracked. I liked the light so much I just kept buying new bezels. The dealer is great to work with and their products are dependable so I still support the brand.....just hoping they will someday offer a replaceable lens for this version or maybe even a shatter proof lens.


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## cyberindie (Sep 4, 2008)

I just looked at the Raider ( now discontinued ) and it's design is very different to the Storm. Whether the Storm is tougher I'm not sure but too expensive for me to drop deliberately to find out!

What I do know is the Storm puts out massive amounts of light. 

Using a lux meter I measured at 1m the intensity of the following lights:

BlackHawk *Gladius Night* Ops Flashlight - 1560 lux
INova T4 ( 2006 model ) - 1600 lux
Fenxi P3D Q5 - 3130 lux
INova X5 ( 2004 model ) - 80 lux
Wolf-Eyes Storm Q5 HO - 8760 lux


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## jayflash (Sep 4, 2008)

While I really like and own Inova lights, the reversed cell direction is, simply, BACKWARDS. Anybody know the rationale behind that potentially destructive, Murphy inviting, idea? 

Unless a good reason for reversed cell polarity exists, beyond just being different, one might suspect Inova's overall judgment. I suppose they're stuck with that now.


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## Monocrom (Sep 4, 2008)

jayflash said:


> While I really like and own Inova lights, the reversed cell direction is, simply, BACKWARDS. Anybody know the rationale behind that potentially destructive, Murphy inviting, idea?
> 
> Unless a good reason for reversed cell polarity exists, beyond just being different, one might suspect Inova's overall judgment. I suppose they're stuck with that now.


 
Then there's the X1. Battery position is the same as for most lights out there. With the battery's nipple pointed down, not up.


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## jefflrrp (Sep 8, 2008)

Quite frankly, my X5 is the most used light I own. It sits next to a S&W Model 10 .38 revolver at night as my 'go-to' light. I tried the Surefire G3 as my 'go-to' light for a while, but then one night decided to set my alarm at 0230 and train as if the Shizzle was hitting the fan. Nearly killed myself with the 105 lumen G3. I find the 20 lumens or so of the X5 all I can handle for the first 2-5 minutes of vision while waking up.

Jeff (who soon hopes to get a 2008 T1 and T2 for Xmas)


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## steve_vance (Sep 14, 2008)

The Sun said:


> why PM me, post them in the open
> 
> your not the only one laughin, i'll post you a pic. of my DD-214 but you probably wouldn't know what that is. you sound alone and bald...i forgot except for your CPF buddies, hows life as a rent-a-cop, wannabe. i didn't know there was a "veteran post handbook" i needed to follow, i'm just posting the truth, but you wouldn't know what that looks like either judging by the your comments, carrier, and attitude. honor, courage, and commitment are obviously, not your at your core values. i took those values with me from my experiences. what did you take, coffee and doughnuts. your a poser...



I think that's enough from you two, especially you, Sun. Moderator notified.


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## kramer5150 (Sep 14, 2008)

New first time Inova owner chiming in... I was digging through the racks at my local Frys and they had an older X1-V2 for $19. Knowing its strengths/weaknesses, and the fact that they are getting hard to find, I simply could not walk out of there with out a purchase.

I have only owned it for a few days but has too many strengths and unique features for me to pass up the opportunity to share and join in with the other Inova fans

-$20
-USA Made
-Small 1xAA size
-Bomb-proof twist cap reliability
-SUPER-clean machining everywhere
-Thick, rigid, robust,heavy construction throughout
-Tight O-ring gasket
-Good DC-DC regulation from any AA cell chemistry, LSD-NiMH being my fave
-Anti-reflective glass window to protect the LED, IMHO this is its biggest advantage over the E01 and Infinity Ultra
-9 hour run time, Nichia efficiency
-Shallow dunkproof submersible, and even if it did flood, the DC circuit has a history of being able to survive repeated water exposure and freezing temperatures. 
-Smooth, silky HAIII finish (I think its HAIII, someone please correct me)
-Smooth ~12 Lumens of night vision preserving flood.
-Mod potential... see these links...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/52043

With a GS emitter it gets over 50 hours of run...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/203925

I can't think of any $20 light that can match this


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## sabre7 (Sep 25, 2008)

Inovas are great lights, got mine at Target


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## shomie911 (Sep 25, 2008)

PhantomPhoton said:


> I agree.
> Personally I'd also like to see the old Inova X1 back; the nice "moon" beam... just toss in an updated 5mm LED for more bright while still keeping the great runtime.
> 
> 
> In the past I used my old X03 for SAR; gave it quite a workout and it never failed me. I definitely trust that light with my life.



Glad to hear the X03 has been put through its paces in the field.

I just got one and it seems like one solid light, I like it a lot, regardless of the previous generation Luxeon.

It would likely be my favorite light with a Q5 or R2 behind the TIROS. But I hear it's really hard to mod these.

Maybe I'll find someone to do it for me...


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## phil000 (Sep 25, 2008)

deleting account


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 25, 2008)

shomie911 said:


> Glad to hear the X03 has been put through its paces in the field.
> 
> I just got one and it seems like one solid light, I like it a lot, regardless of the previous generation Luxeon.
> 
> ...



A Q5/R2 won't fit into the Trios. And it won't give a good beam due to differences in the emission pattern of the Cree X-RE. You want to put a SSC P4 (not p7) in there. Search for "freeze pop" on how to open an X03.


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## shomie911 (Sep 25, 2008)

PhantomPhoton said:


> A Q5/R2 won't fit into the Trios. And it won't give a good beam due to differences in the emission pattern of the Cree X-RE. You want to put a SSC P4 (not p7) in there. Search for "freeze pop" on how to open an X03.



A Luxeon K2 TFFC will fit also, right?

I don't even own a soldering iron, so for me to try it would end up with a useless light. 

Eventually, I'll get around to finding/paying someone to mod my X03.

I think that would be quite nice though, TIROS all hotspot beam, the slight warmness of the K2, all in the ultra-reliable X03 host.


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## yellow (Sep 26, 2008)

Just did a quick google for "XO3", please correct me, if I am wrong on the light I type about ...

* why an XO instead of the much nicer and better "T" (has back klickie, knurling, HA3)?
* the XO3 seems to be with the Tiros, only when You can get an "old" model on sale (like the T were early this year). Now one might not get these any more
* there are Luxeons mounted (newer ones with the new models)
* the beam from the Tiros is awfully ringy (even compared to a Cree, which is always beaten for "ringy beam")

when freeze-popping Inovas, count on loosing else the driver, or the optic/led, or both.
Have other led and driver at hand, mill a better heatsink and mount everything into the housing.

(doh, if T1, T3, XO3 were longer for just 2 mm, then they were the bomb for modding! 
T1 with 18650, heatsink and Cree/Seoul, T3/XO3 with double 18500 and P7/MCE.
As is, there is not enough space for a useful thick sink)


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## ZMZ67 (Sep 26, 2008)

shomie911 said:


> A Luxeon K2 TFFC will fit also, right?
> 
> I don't even own a soldering iron, so for me to try it would end up with a useless light.
> 
> ...


 
I would definately love to see INOVA reproduce the original T1/T2 with the TFFC K2.The beam of the TIROS lights is desirable for some situations but they lack the punch of the latest LEDs.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Sep 26, 2008)

I still say I'll trade an XO Tiros for an XO Reflector.

Wouldn't mind an X03 Reflector either!


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