# Kool Mist clone ...



## wquiles (May 30, 2009)

I have been wanting "something" to cool some lathe/milling operations, and after 6 months of on and off looking, I decided to try a spray cooling device, similar to the one Kool Mist sells. The one I got was from a seller on Ebay that has good feedback from many buyers:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Spray-Mist-Unit-for-Cutting-and-Grinding-Applications_W0QQitemZ140275992173QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20a919c66d&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50


I took advantage of Enco's (fairly common lately) free shipping deals, and got a gallon of Kool Mist #78 formula. It arrived yesterday, so I proceeded to test it.

Here is the "system":







Here is the "device". I have it temp bolted to a strong magnet. The brass screw controls how much air goes through, which in turn controls the siphoning effect:






Here is my initial use:






Later on, I decided to mount it on the carriage, so I removed the factory lathe flood system pieces:






And lucky me, the hole spacing was "perfect" for the Al block on the mister:


























It is great that I can get really close to the chuck:











How it works? I have only tried on Al just to get familiar with it, and it takes a little bit of time to adjust, but I like it a lot. You have to start the siphon effect with a larger air volume, but once it starts, you can cut it down a LOT, just enough to keep the "mist" going, and it uses "very" little, which is one of the reasons I went this way compared to traditional flood cooling - it is really easy to clean up!. I took a small movie clip showing this in action - looks pretty cool. If you guys are interested I will try to find a way to post it 

I like it enough that I just ordered a second unit for my milling machine :devil:

EDIT: Videos finally available!
Video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIN9MP3qbyg

Video 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0KwCy3Yzc


Will


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## PEU (May 30, 2009)

If after an hour of so of working you don't end with a "lake" under your lathe Im definitevely interested! 
Until I move to somewhere else, my parquet flooring is no-no regarding liquids... 

Upload the vid to youtube


Pablo


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## wquiles (May 30, 2009)

PEU said:


> If after an hour of so of working you don't end with a "lake" under your lathe Im definitevely interested!
> Until I move to somewhere else, my parquet flooring is no-no regarding liquids...
> 
> Upload the vid to youtube
> ...



Videos uploaded 

So far (and you can see this better on video #2), the amount of liquid is very small indeed and that was not the smallest pattern - that was just good for the video. It is of course more liquid when you first get it started (start the siphoning effect) since you need more air pressure to get the mist going, but once you cut down the air to a min, then you get the light spray and cold air that you see in the videos. I even got it later to "spit" out even less, down to a mist, so this might be an OK solution for your setup with the hardwood floors. I am not expecting to use it all of the time, plus I mostly work with relatively "soft" Al, but I will report more once I use it more in the upcoming days/weeks. 

Will


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## jhanko (May 30, 2009)

Looks good. What do you use for the misting solution?


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## PEU (May 30, 2009)

Its really a fine mist! added to my list of things to be purchased!

I think I will use it far more on the mill than the lathe, Im tired of using spray lube when I cut alu.


Pablo


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## wquiles (May 31, 2009)

JHanko said:


> Looks good. What do you use for the misting solution?



I am trying right now Kool Mist Formula 78:
http://rayhamil.tripod.com/koolcatalog/kcat6.html

It gets mixed 4 ounces to a gallon, so the gallon of #78 that I bought will last me a LONG time 

Will


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## wquiles (May 31, 2009)

PEU said:


> Its really a fine mist! added to my list of things to be purchased!
> 
> I think I will use it far more on the mill than the lathe, Im tired of using spray lube when I cut alu.
> 
> ...



Yes, it is a very fine mist. And that is the same reason I wanted something like this - I am tired of spraying WD-40 by hand, more on the mill than on the lathe.


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## bluwolf (May 31, 2009)

I know I'm just the new guy. But I'm already getting tired of you finding things for me to spend money on

Mike


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## PEU (May 31, 2009)

get used to it! 

at least we have our flashlights collections kinda established with something added every now and then, you will buy tools AND flashlights :nana: 

Speaking more seriously, ingenuity is the mother of all tools, sometimes you can acomplish the same as a $100 tool with some elbow grease and a $5 carbide bit blank 


Pablo


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## Mirage_Man (May 31, 2009)

wquiles said:


> EDIT: Videos finally available!
> Video 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIN9MP3qbyg
> 
> Video 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P0KwCy3Yzc
> ...



Cool. How about vids of what the finish looks like when cutting with and without the mister?


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## wquiles (May 31, 2009)

Mirage_Man said:


> Cool. How about vids of what the finish looks like when cutting with and without the mister?



I will try to capture something like that for next weekend. I still have steel rod - that would be a good one to try with, although improved finish should be part of it, as am also expecting/hoping to get longer life from the cutting tools as well


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## Mirage_Man (May 31, 2009)

wquiles said:


> I will try to capture something like that for next weekend. I still have steel rod - that would be a good one to try with, although improved finish should be part of it, as am also expecting/hoping to get longer life from the cutting tools as well



Not to mention you should see less BUE.


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## StrikerDown (Jun 1, 2009)

Other than using less coolant what is the advantage of the mist system over flood coolant? 

Is there an advantage of flood cooling over mist for certain applications?


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## 65535 (Jun 1, 2009)

For casual machining flood is very messy. With small DOC and lower feed rates a home setup doesn't need a flood, rather it needs the lubricity more so than the cooling.

In a production or large setup you would want flood to cool off the part as well as lubricate the cutters. 

In most cases the mist just provides enough lubrication to prevent excess heat and wear. A flood will cool everything down with heavy cutting.


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## Anglepoise (Jun 1, 2009)

65535 said:


> For casual machining flood is very messy. With small DOC and lower feed rates a home setup doesn't need a flood, rather it needs the lubricity more so than the cooling.
> 
> In a production or large setup you would want flood to cool off the part as well as lubricate the cutters.
> 
> In most cases the mist just provides enough lubrication to prevent excess heat and wear. A flood will cool everything down with heavy cutting.



Good explanation for 'Home Shop Use'


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## StrikerDown (Jun 1, 2009)

Anglepoise said:


> Good explanation for 'Home Shop Use'




Yes Very Good Explanation, Thank you.

It looks like this would be ideal for the mill, at least on mine there is nothing to keep the rotating tooling from slinging juice all over the place! For a flood system those Plexiglas guards would be a real necessity to keep the machinery from being destroyed by the wife! :sick2: :mecry:


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## precisionworks (Jun 25, 2009)

FWIW, here's a low output, no fog, shop built mister:

http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2002_retired_files/Zero_Fog_Mister.txt


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## wquiles (Jun 29, 2009)

Now that I have the Eaton Compressor running, here is the mister in actual use:











And this one was after I was done with the boring tool:






Here, when giving the hole a bevel, I had a little bit of chatter due to the cutting bit being "way" overhanged on the tool holder, but everything remained cool and I had no BUE that I could tell:






Will


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## 65535 (Jun 29, 2009)

That chattering actually looks really cool. 
That's the bad machinist in me.

Otherwise that looks pretty good. Try it on some steel.


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## wquiles (Jun 29, 2009)

Yup, although not on purpose, I like that pattern as well :naughty:


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## darkzero (Jun 29, 2009)

I also like that pattern. :twothumbs

Could provide some "grip" depending on it's application. Now try to do it intentionally. 

Glad to hear your new compressor is up & running!


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## wquiles (Jul 5, 2009)

The "kit" that I got from Ebay has a little bit too loose a fit between the ID of the tip and the OD of the fluid tube, so I made a new tip on the lathe (EDIT: I did not made it from scratch - I modified an existing air nozzle) with an ID much closer to the OD of the fluid tube - nice press fit to the lock-line tube:







It works much better, and now I have more control over not only how much lubricant/coolant to use, but also the pattern. Here is a fog type, fine mist pattern:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8Zl15TgK14


and here is a lower volume mister type pattern (you can hear a little bit the Eaton Compressor running in the background):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dANHwRVmOHM


Now I have to make or buy & modify a fine tip nozzle to gain even more adjustment 

And by the way, I really like the cooling effect - both from the air and from the coolant. Parts (specially after parting) now come much cooler than before, and so far no BUE from cutting Al :devil:


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## wquiles (Jul 12, 2009)

This last week I made another necessary improvement to the Kool mist clone.

This being a "cheap" copy does work well, but it had one nagging problem. As you move the lock-line, the inner coolant hose would also move, changing the relationship with the outer tip, which then changes the spray/mist pattern, making it dificult to achieve repeatable results. So I created a small fitted Al piece that "graps" the inner coolant hose in a fixed relationship to the outer lock line:












I then file two areas to allow for air to blow by:











Here it is, press fit into a lock-line piece:






and in use:






Once I did a couple of trials adjustments to get the "right" amount of siphoning, it does work like I expected. Now when I move the line, the pattern does not change 

Also in terms of BUE, look at this boring bar. The used tip on the left has BUE, but the one being used now, has none - and I am using it quite heavily, to take bigger cuts than before:











Operations like parting are now much easier, and noticeably cooler - parts come out cool to the touch, instead of so hot it almost burns your skin. I do run the mist a little heavier for parting and that seems to help keep things cooler:






I use it for all operations on Al, even boring:
















Of course, for boring (or any other operation close to the chuck), one has to check the placement at both ends of the cut to make sure there is no interference:











Finish on Al so far was been better than when I was cutting dry. I had a few "stains" from left over coolant that dried on some Al parts, but I tried a lighter concentration of the Kool Mist #78 formula and it seems that the problem is now gone.






To help contain debris and to make cleaning easier, I am using that black thin rubber material (leftover from the milling machine), which I keep in place with magnets. I even put some pieces on both sides of the chuck's safety cover, which help control/contain over-spray outside of the lathe (although it is not that much liquid). Another side benefit is that I now get less debris on the lead screw as well:






So far (and sorry if I am sounding repetitive here), although I had to make some small mods, and I need to do a little bit more cleaning, I really like this misting coolant system


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## Mirage_Man (Jul 12, 2009)

wquiles said:


>



Have you thought about hooking the system up to the coolant through hole in that boring bar?


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## wquiles (Jul 13, 2009)

Mirage_Man said:


> Have you thought about hooking the system up to the coolant through hole in that boring bar?



Yup, one of the many projects in the queue - in fact, that is why I bought those solid carbide bars that Barry recommended. The siphoning effect might not work when forced into the bar, but I am confident I can figure out some sort of "adapter". Worst case I can just use compressed air to keep things cool and debris flowing


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## HarryN (Jul 13, 2009)

Hi - yes those mist coolers are helpful. What are you doing to make sure you don't breath in that mist? I would think some exhaust might be needed.


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## 65535 (Jul 13, 2009)

What you can do, is make a home made setup for flow through misting coolant.

You'll need a few parts but it's a simple idea. You have a small 1quart or so pressurized container no need for more than 5-10 psi.

By pressurizing the coolant you can force it along with air through a smaller orifice. Might be pretty easy.

Hell an aquarium air pump and a needle valve might be enough.


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## wquiles (Jul 13, 2009)

HarryN said:


> Hi - yes those mist coolers are helpful. What are you doing to make sure you don't breath in that mist? I would think some exhaust might be needed.


Not worried at all given the formula and concentration being used, and due to the very tiny amount being used. Plus it is not creating a "fog" that gets carried away in the air but rather a small mist right into the work. If I dial the unit to create a much stronger stream/flood, then I would have to worry about breathing the stuff. 




65535 said:


> What you can do, is make a home made setup for flow through misting coolant.
> 
> You'll need a few parts but it's a simple idea. You have a small 1quart or so pressurized container no need for more than 5-10 psi.
> 
> ...


Yup, that is pretty much that Barry listed above:
http://www.metalworking.com/DropBox/_2002_retired_files/Zero_Fog_Mister.txt







Seems fairly easy to build, but I am happy so far with the mister I have.

Will


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## wquiles (Nov 20, 2009)

I mentioned earlier that I had modified the tip on my Kool Mist clone in order to get a smaller/finer mist. After calling Kool Mist over the phone I became convinced to try "the genuine article", so with an ENCO special I got me their 18" portable unit:












The unit is basically identical to the Ebay clone, but the tip is not only smaller, and it is adjustable, but it also has a smaller tip for the actual coolant, which "does" give not only a finer mist, but also a lot more control/adjustability than the Ebay clone version:






Here on the left is my modified and fixed clone tip, and on the right the Kool Mist tip:






I took a video of the finner mist, but I am having problems posting it on youtube - as soon as I get it resolved I will update this post with the video. I am "very" impressed with the tip/adjustability on the real Kool Mist unit


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## StrikerDown (Nov 21, 2009)

Will,

Looking at Enco's catalog they have kool mist with and without tanks, etc. 

If you don't buy a kit with the tank do you just drop the siphon hose in a bottle of coolant and hook up the other hose to an air line, like the clone?


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## precisionworks (Nov 21, 2009)

I've mentioned one other cooling/lubricating method to Will. It's called MQL (minimum quantity lubrication) or near dry machining. Lots of articles come up on a Google search, as the technology is over 5 years old. The "oil" is not petroleum or mineral, but vegetable. Whatever hits the floor is instantly lapped up by either Shop Dog 1 or Shop Dog 2. The sales rep said the oil is food safe, and when used during heavy machining it smells like frying fish.

The applicators are pricey, $500+, but show up on eBay sometimes. I hand apply the oil (Accu-Lube LB-1000) but will buy an applicator some day.

http://www.itwfpg.com/acculube/lubricants/LB1000.html

http://www.itwfpg.com/acculube/applicators.html


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## wquiles (Nov 21, 2009)

StrikerDown said:


> Will,
> 
> Looking at Enco's catalog they have kool mist with and without tanks, etc.
> 
> If you don't buy a kit with the tank do you just drop the siphon hose in a bottle of coolant and hook up the other hose to an air line, like the clone?


Yup, I just bought their simple, portable kit. I am using the same coolant plastic "tank" that came with the klone unit.




precisionworks said:


> I've mentioned one other cooling/lubricating method to Will. It's called MQL (minimum quantity lubrication) or near dry machining. Lots of articles come up on a Google search, as the technology is over 5 years old. The "oil" is not petroleum or mineral, but vegetable. Whatever hits the floor is instantly lapped up by either Shop Dog 1 or Shop Dog 2. The sales rep said the oil is food safe, and when used during heavy machining it smells like frying fish.
> 
> The applicators are pricey, $500+, but show up on eBay sometimes. I hand apply the oil (Accu-Lube LB-1000) but will buy an applicator some day.
> 
> ...


Definitely in my "wish list" for sure, and always looking on Ebay for one of them. For now this new Kool Mist is working even better than the klone, and now that I am using distilled water with the Kool Mist formula, I should no longer have the small rust I had when I was mixing with the tap water (which is pretty hard where I live).


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## 65535 (Nov 21, 2009)

Using distiller water won't do a whole lot of rust prevention, where it really shines is keeping from those minerals inthe water from gumming up tooling and your machine.


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## wquiles (Nov 21, 2009)

65535 said:


> Using distiller water won't do a whole lot of rust prevention, where it really shines is keeping from those minerals inthe water from gumming up tooling and your machine.



When I talked to Kool Mist technical support, they stated that the anti-rust additivies in the formula (I am using #78) will prevent rust "if" I used distiled water. I am trying it out with distiled water per their advice to see what happens ...


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## 65535 (Nov 23, 2009)

I do agree it will help, but it won't be 100% fool proof, water is water. I imagine though it will help a lot over acidic/basic dirty tap water.


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## wquiles (Nov 23, 2009)

65535 said:


> I do agree it will help, but it won't be 100% fool proof, water is water. I imagine though it will help a lot over acidic/basic dirty tap water.



I 100% agree with you (Barry also told me the same thing!), so I am not expecting any miracles. 

The good thing is that with the genuine Kool Mist device I get an even finer spray (using less fluid), and it seems more of the water evaporates instead of collecting, so that has to help as well.

I am still going to be cleaning up after each use - I don't want to push my luck


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## wquiles (Nov 23, 2009)

By the way, here is the video on youtube - the spray/mist is so fine now, it is very hard to see. You have to put your hand in front to see the drops in your skin - it is frigid cold as well!

Kool Mist Portable - 18" ...


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## wquiles (Nov 23, 2009)

By the way, given how much better the real Kool Mist works, I can no longer recommend the cheap Ebay clone. My recommendation is to get the real Kool Mist unit.


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## unterhausen (Dec 1, 2009)

you've motivated me to dig my Kool Mist out of the pile. I need to get new hoses for it and clean it up, but it looks ok.


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## Tractorshaft (Feb 9, 2010)

I see a "Kool Mist" in these applications as a lubrication dispenser, not a "Cooling Apparatus", especially when I see so many carbide inserts. As most probably know carbide likes to run "Hot", this way the heat is removed from the tool and the part by the blue hot chip. Yet another reason that light finishing cuts are not the forte of carbide. Much nicer "finishes" can be had on aluminum with sharp HSS bits. I put this note here for the newb machinists, obviously not for the "Pros" who venture here. I see some awfully nice machinery! One of those 6 jaw chucks cost me more than my little Atlas 12"!

Jerry


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## wquiles (Feb 9, 2010)

Tractorshaft said:


> I see a "Kool Mist" in these applications as a lubrication dispenser, not a "Cooling Apparatus", especially when I see so many carbide inserts. As most probably know carbide likes to run "Hot", this way the heat is removed from the tool and the part by the blue hot chip.


Actually it does both, as the cooling and lubricating effect reduces the BUE (which is temperature and pressure related). Less (or no) BUE means better finishes, so I almost always used some sort of lubrication when cutting metal, although now-a-days I use an Accu-Lube system. Of course you are 100% correct that for some operations/materials you do want the carbide to get hoter, but for the projects I have this has not been the case (yet!).




Tractorshaft said:


> Yet another reason that light finishing cuts are not the forte of carbide. Much nicer "finishes" can be had on aluminum with sharp HSS bits.


In my opinion, this used to be true, but it is no longer the case. Getting a fantastic finish on Al is now trivial with carbide tooling, specially the positive geometry inserts specially developed for Al, which available from several vendors, such as  these ones. True, a lot more expensive than HSS, but the harder carbide stays sharper longer than most HSS tools. When the edge gets somewhat dull, I just turn to a new edge and keep going, without having to adjust anything.

With those same inserts I even get near mirror finish on copper as well:

















For me, I do honestly believe that HSS tooling has its place (and I "do" have some HSS tools that I learn to grind myself - a great skill to have), but except for a few specific times, I use carbide inserts for 99% of all of the projects that I do in Al, steel, and plastics, and I only recommend carbide insert tools for beguiners as (except for the higher cost) they are a much quicker and consistent way to get started in the hobby since the designers of the carbide tools and inserts have already figured out the right angles for us. Yes, this means that you end up with more tooling for each need, and the costs are substantially higher than grinding your own HSS tooling, and with HSS tooling you have complete control of all of the angles, but, it is still easier and more consistent with the right carbide tooling.

I am "not" trying to start an argument about this. This topic comes in various forums I belong to at least 3-4 times each year, and I see no end to the discussion as we all use what we like and what we feel comfortable using. There will always be the two camps, and there is nothing wrong with that - we can always agree to disagree, and concentrate our efforts in our projects and ideas 

Will


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## precisionworks (Feb 9, 2010)

> carbide likes to run "Hot"


Some coatings, like AlTiN, are optimized to run dry & hot, but most inserts do better when run cool or cold. The reason is plastic deformation. As most inserts becomes very hot, the binder starts to soften which allows deformation of the edge of the insert. Experiments have been conducted where liquid nitrogen (-320°F) was directed at the cutting edge, which allowed machining titanium and other hard metals around 400 sfpm ... rough 200% of normal speed. 

http://www.hardingeus.com/?pageID=23&nid=144


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## cozybldr (Feb 24, 2010)

You can buy just the adjustable nozzle from Kool Mist directly. It is about $14 plus shipping. 

FYI.


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## KC2IXE (Apr 21, 2010)

I bought a Kool Mist today (was getting tired of flood on the lathe, and a brush on the mill), and was shocked at just how MUCH air the thing uses - my little 5 Gal tank compressor keeps cycling


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## precisionworks (Apr 21, 2010)

5 gallon compressors usually run anywhere from 2-4 scfm. Mister units need a minimum 3 scfm (1 hp) to 6 scfm (2 hp). The hp numbers are well fed work horses, not scrawny Chinese ponies


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## wquiles (Apr 21, 2010)

KC2IXE said:


> I bought a Kool Mist today (was getting tired of flood on the lathe, and a brush on the mill), and was shocked at just how MUCH air the thing uses - my little 5 Gal tank compressor keeps cycling



I had a little bit of a similar challenge with the 20 Gal tank I was using on my 1.5HP Eaton (about 5-6 cfm), but the compressor was not quite running all of the time, so the larger tank certainly does help.


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## KC2IXE (Apr 21, 2010)

I said 5 gal - probably more like 10 - but whatever - home built from a Tank Dad brough home a a few decades ago - and yeay, it's a real USA pump and motor on there


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## KC2IXE (Apr 23, 2010)

Found out something interesting - the fluid that KoolMist supplies is a really GOOD dyekem remover


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## wquiles (Apr 23, 2010)

KC2IXE said:


> Found out something interesting - the fluid that KoolMist supplies is a really GOOD dyekem remover



Darn - I did not know about that either :shakehead


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