# New Lathe, PM1236



## BVH

The Roadaway truck showed up at 1:00. As the driver was maneuvering the skid to the back of the truck, I was quickly checking all sides to be sure there was no obvious damage. NONE seen! Once in the garage, I popped the top and everything looked good, no damage. I quickly checked all the precision surfaces. They all looked very good! Ok, I'll sign the receival slip and let the driver be on his way. I removed the rest of the crate and began cleaning at about 3:00. Took a two hour break for dinner and back to cleaning. Finished cleaning all painted and metal surfaces at about 11:00 PM. Looks 1000% better! I used Honda spray polish to clean the Cosmo off all painted surfaces and penetrating oil to do the metal surfaces. Both worked very quickly to get thru the Cosmo crust. I was surprised how fast the Honda polish worked. I re-oiled all the precision metal surfaces with Way oil.

I took the compound off and as with other machines, there are rocks n stuff in there. No problem cleaning this out. The mechanic in me wants to take off the crosslide. For surely there are more rocks there but I've never adjusted jibs before and don't know if this is something I should do down the road after having gained a bit more knowledge. Taking it off means I'll have to remove and replace the DRO slide too. Question: Should I take this leap and attempt to adjust the jibs and the DRO slide? I have the DRO manual and will read it but since I'm writing, I figured I ask those who've been here before.

Sadly, I probably won't have my stand risers until the weekend. After buying those pricy Footmaster casters and designing a number of versions of risers to accommodate them, I've decided to go with the Mason feet. The Footmasters just don't seem as strong and sturdy as the Masons. The Masons have close to 1.5 X's the floor contact area as compared to the Footmasters. The stand will be much more simple to build this way, too. 2x2, 1/4 wall square tubing instead of the 2x4, 1/4 wall that I was going to use. They will be simple rectangles matching the stand bottoms with short extensions sticking out front and back on the two outer tubes. Once everything is in-place, the welder will weld in two, 2x2 tubes connecting the two base risers to give me a complete box construction with the lathe acting as the top tube. Down the road, I'm going to have the welder make a tool tray between the stands. I just have to move the modesty shield to the back of the stands. To give me mobility, I'm making a "J" lifting cradle that will slide under and snugly around each end riser tubing, allowing me to raise each end with my floor jack and replace the Masons with simple casters if I should need to move the lathe out from the wall. Question: Is it possible that I could tweak and damage the lathe bed by lifting one complete end at a time? 

The original distance between centers, front to back of the stand mounting holes is 8.5". I will end up with a distance of 18.5". This should provide good stability for the 4" rise. The riser will stick out 2.5" from the stand, front and back and the Mason foot will be 3.25" out. Hopefully, not too much of a tripping hazard.

I'm getting excited now after the false start two weeks ago. Opinions on my questions would be appreciated.


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## precisionworks

> I was surprised how fast the Honda polish worked.


Nothing else like it ... Harley sells a poor copy but Honda makes the real thing.



> Should I take this leap and attempt to adjust the jibs and the DRO slide?


The gibs will certainly need adjusting - snug them up until they are too tight & back off just enough for smooth movement. Jibs are only found on a sailboat :nana:

Not sure if your machine uses straight gibs or tapered gibs but here's some info on each:

A gib is an adjustable take-up mechanism to adjust the fit of a machine slide. The gib permits adjustment of the fit of the slide over its service life.

​ • *Straight Gib* 
The standard design for dovetail and hardened way slides. Consists of a flat tool steel strip acted on by multiple set scews. The fit of the slide is set by tightening or loosening the setscrews. The gib is equal in length to the saddle, and may be pinned in place for extra precision.


• *Tapered Gib* 
For extra precision and rigidity, the tapered gib may be used on either a dovetail or hardened way slide. It consists of a steel strip with a taper ground into one side, and a corresponding taper ground into the saddle. At each end of the gib there is a cap screw, and by adjusting the screws against each other, the gib can be moved back and forth, adjusting the fit of the slide.





> I've decided to go with the Mason feet.


IMO you will like them better...


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## BVH

precisionworks said:


> Nothing else like it ... Harley sells a poor copy but Honda makes the real thing.
> 
> When I buy, I buy 6 cans. There was a time when the original - made by Honda themselves, went off the market. "OMG", what am I going to do??? Now I'm gun shy!
> 
> 
> The gibs will certainly need adjusting - snug them up until they are too tight & back off just enough for smooth movement. Jibs are only found on a sailboat :nana:
> 
> A Big Opps!


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## StrikerDown

precisionworks said:


> Nothing else like it ... Harley sells a poor copy but Honda makes the real thing.



What did I miss out on? :huh:

What is Honda Polish? What do we use it for? 

If Barry likes it it must be good stuff!

BVH I'm happy for your new arrival! Hope it works out good for you.


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## BVH

Second gen on left, current product on the right. Used it to keep my Goldwing sparkling clean and shiny. Could be used on car finsihes but would be expensive I'd guess. Lots of other products for that. I use it to clean many, many painted surfaces, my tool box, the Lipo storage BBQ, bicycles. It makes a quick job of keeping paint clean and shiny. Oh, and my PM1236, too!


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## precisionworks

> What is Honda Polish? What do we use it for?



As Bob said, any painted surface looks great after a spray & wipe with Honda Cleaner & Polish. I buy it at the local Honda store but lots of online sellers also have it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004FSEJZA/?tag=cpf0b6-20

It also works well on plastic items (clear face shields, welding helmets, safety glasses). 



> If Barry likes it it must be good stuff!


LOL :nana:


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## BVH

precisionworks said:


> Not sure if your machine uses straight gibs or tapered gibs but here's some info on each:
> 
> A gib is an adjustable take-up mechanism to adjust the fit of a machine slide. The gib permits adjustment of the fit of the slide over its service life.
> ​ • *Straight Gib*
> The standard design for dovetail and hardened way slides. Consists of a flat tool steel strip acted on by multiple set scews. The fit of the slide is set by tightening or loosening the setscrews. The gib is equal in length to the saddle, and may be pinned in place for extra precision.
> 
> 
> • *Tapered Gib*
> For extra precision and rigidity, the tapered gib may be used on either a dovetail or hardened way slide. It consists of a steel strip with a taper ground into one side, and a corresponding taper ground into the saddle. At each end of the gib there is a cap screw, and by adjusting the screws against each other, the gib can be moved back and forth, adjusting the fit of the slide.



Tapered "GIB" is used. I see the screws at each and. I looked at the DRO manual and discovered that the clearance of the pick-up is not within sensor-to-scale limits (.8mm-1.5mm) It's much closer and the sensor is not directly under the scale. It's about .020 -.030 off. Given this, I might as well take off the cross slide. My final DRO alignment can't be any worse than theirs. The tapered "GIB" looks fairly easy to adjust.


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## darkzero

Congrats Bob! 

So where are all the pics? 

I know you posted pics before but you don't have that one anymore. 

Did you get one with the chuck guard this time? And by the sounds of your other posts, did you not have to send everything back with the previous one as in chucks, stand, etc?

Happy you finally got your lathe!




StrikerDown said:


> What is Honda Polish? What do we use it for?
> 
> If Barry likes it it must be good stuff!



I agree, Honda Cleaner & Polish is some great stuff. But IIRC it's usually found in the Honda Motorycle or ATV/Dirt Bike dealers. I don't remember seeing it all Honda/Acura Auto dealers. I used to be a Honda mechanic but I specialized in high performance rather than general repairs although I also performed repairs & maintenance too. Another great Honda product that I swore by is Honda Bond. Yama Bond is also a comparable equivelent. But many will agrue that they are no different from the gray RTV found at your local auto parts store. I'm also a big fan of Motul products.


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## wquiles

Until I see pictures on this thread, I will consider the "new lathe" a figment of your imagination :devil:


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## Chicago X

wquiles said:


> Until I see pictures on this thread, I will consider the "new lathe" a figment of your imagination :devil:



Tough room.


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## BVH

OK, OK, I get the hint..... Up till this afternoon, I was just cleaning the machine. I've already made one bonehead move. I assumed that the DRO scale and what I'm calling the "pickup" were separate pieces because the manual called for .8 to 1.5mm clearance, set with a feeler gauge. Project: Take the cross slide off. undo the allen on the end of the screw. Loosen the two small allens that sort of tweak the brass screw nut to make the shaft less susceptible to vibrating loose? Count turns and remove the the GIB screws. OK crank away. Get to the end and it will not come off. Analyze, analyze... Oh Krap! I forgot to unscrew the scale and I've run the pickup all the way against the end of the scale! Not supposed to do that. Remove the scale mounting screws and the cross slide comes off like it should. I'll bet I've trashed the scale! Get everything all cleaned up and go to re-assemble. Darn screw won't start in the brass nut. Look at starting end of nut. Krappy threads! No tap with this pitch. Take 9/16" course US tap and use one section of cutter to re-establish starting thread groove. Success! Re-install the scale and move cross slide back and forth. What is that faint tinkle/glass sound coming from the scale??? 

Found a place here in CA that sells DRO Kits and the scales separately. IF I've trashed mine, a new one will be about $140. But wait, there's more! In reading their description of scale resolution and the two different resolution scales they sell, I can buy a .0001 scale instead of the .0002 so I will see smaller increments of movement! Ahhh....that must be why I deliberately decided to possibly break my scale. Rationalization, anyone?

I won't have my stand risers until tomorrow eve or Saturday eve so I really can't do much more except to get each end raised on blocks, and remove the pallet and skid in prep for the lift. Since the carriage DRO scale (undamaged so far) sticks so far out, I can't simply wrap the sling around the lathe bed for the lift. I made a 4x6 block that contacts the two lathe bed lifting points, is notched to miss the shafts and sticks out about 4" on both sides. I know the manual says to thread the sling between the bed and leadscrew/shafts but I want to have equal lifting forces on both sides so I'm going outboard on both. I don't want to take the DRO off!

No chuck guard on this one either. I'll try asking for one in case I decide I want to use it.

OK a few quick shots:





I know it looks a little precarious in that the block could twist if the sling was not precisely centered. But I used this method to raise the tailstock end only enough from it's' support (1/8") to put the 4x6 blocks underneath the mounting foot. I could not use the block horizontally because the DRO pickup wire was in the way.


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## Davo J

Hi,
Really sorry to hear about your scale, that was not what anyone wants, but at least you owned up to doing it and it might help someone else down the track. 

I have had DRO's for about 5 years and have been in and out of a few, I would realign the scale and hook it up to see if it will work as they are very robust, if it doesn't take off the end caps and have a look inside to see where it is broken. It may have only broken the end of the glass and the cross slides doesn't usually use the full length, so you still might get out of it by just removing the broken glass piece.
Changing over to 0.001um scale would be my recommendation, just make sure you readout will take it, but most do these days.

The reader head is the most expensive part so if you want to get it going latter you could just buy the scale without the reader of the same brand.

Before you have another mishap, don't lift with those straps or they will probably break. I have had that type for tie downs and they have let go. Get yourself some proper rated lifting straps, they are only about $10 or less each for a 1 ton ones.

Great to see your lathe turned up with no problems this time around, but I would be onto him about that guard until you get it.

Looking forward to your updates, and seeing your risers.

Dave


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## Davo J

You might be in luck,
I just remembered the scale will make that sound if it is miss aligned, as it rubs on the aluminum and sounds like glass. A few years back I thought I did a scale in with the same sound but found out it was this. 

I also forgot to mention the small grub screws on the brass nut are for taking up backlash in the cross slide screw. You will never get no backlash, so just tighten them up enough that it doesn't make the screw hard to turn. If it is hard to turn you have gone too far so just back them off a little. 
As for the gib, it will wear in over time and will need adjusting and who even knows if it was adjust right from factory. So just oil and adjust it up so there if a slight drag to it, you don't want it to tight or the cross slide will move in small jumps as it will get stuck then move in a little jump as it over comes the resistance while getting pushed by the screw.

Dave

Edit
If your going to use the gap part of the bed to turn larger stuff, it looks like you will have to move the carriage scale down as they have mounted it to high. Once you set up the cross slide one and get used to it, you may want to tackle that before putting it against a wall as it will be hard to get at.


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## Davo J

To help you out, here are some pictures of the inside of the scales
This one show the reader head with the bearings and you can see the spring. It's those tabs that sometimes come into contact with the scale housing to make it sound like it's the glass.






You can read a bit more about it's workings from here
http://www.zsinstruments.com/scales_about.aspx

And this one is of the scale housing, some have the glass strait down where others have it on an angle





Dave


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## wquiles

BVH said:


> OK, OK, I get the hint.....


Cool - thanks much for the pics. Definitely looks MUCH better than the first one you got.

I feel I do a lot of precision fitted work on my projects, and I have found the 0.0002" to be plenty good for this machine.

Will


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## precisionworks

You probably didn't harm the scale. If you were lucky the reader head tried to push through the plastic end cap on the scale and you'll need a new end cap. If not so lucky the reader head was damaged & will need to be replaced. Not a huge deal either way & you'll be up & running quickly. 



> I have found the 0.0002" to be plenty good for this machine.


I set my display for "fine resolution" which means .0002" radial tool movement / .0004" diameter change. Half that amount would sometimes be nice but I wouldn't pay much extra for it.


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> I set my display for "fine resolution" which means .0002" radial tool movement / .0004" diameter change. Half that amount would sometimes be nice but I wouldn't pay much extra for it.


Exactly. I have not yet found a situation where this .0002" was not adequate. My parts are most always fitted to 0.0005" to 0.001", so having the ability to "sneak" up to that by less than 0.0005" is great. In fact 0.00025" is all that I need, so to go from 0.0002" to 0.0001" would not give me any benefit with the machine/tools that I have 

I should also note that I have found hard to do extremely fine cuts (in the 0.0002" per pass) unless I am using very sharp Al-specific inserts, since there is more likely to be deflection/push rather than the insert "biting" (even more so with Delrin since it is softer than metal). It is even easier to take those really shallow cuts when using my ultra sharp PCD inserts :devil:

Will


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## BVH

Davo J said:


> Hi,
> 
> Before you have another mishap, don't lift with those straps or they will probably break. I have had that type for tie downs and they have let go. Get yourself some proper rated lifting straps, they are only about $10 or less each for a 1 ton ones.Dave



These slings do, in fact, look like some of those that come with the cheap tie down units that the big box stores sell. However, these are manufactured lifting slings. I bought them from a rigging equipment online store. The tag on the sling indicates three different types of lifting configurations and in this lifting configuration, each sling is rated at 3,200 pounds. I had planned to use both of them together for redundancy and/or load sharing. Thanks for the warning on the tie down straps!

Thank you all on the info on the scale and reading head. Makes me feel a little more positive that it might still be OK. Once I get power to the machine, we'll see what happens. Good info on the higher res scales. They also advertise magnetic scales. I would assume that my screen unit would not be compatible but just for general info, are they superior and if so, in what ways?

Davo J, thanks for the pics of the scale parts. I enjoy the technical details. So does the glass have some type of fine coating on it and the reading head works like a hard drive head?

The chuck guard materials have been ordered.


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## precisionworks

> They also advertise magnetic scales. I would assume that my screen unit would not be compatible but just for general info, are they superior and if so, in what ways?


If your display head can use them the mag scales are awesome. Newall came out first with their version & there are now quite a few copies:






The big advantage is that the mag area is totally sealed. A glass scale is covered on three sides but open on the bottom (the yellow colored area is a lip seal, shown on top for clarity).


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## gadget_lover

If you decide the scale is OK, set some stops and run it back and forth to verify that it does not have any dead spots. I had one scale that 'tinkled' and found that if I ran it 8 inches and then back the starting point there were spots were it did not register the movement, and did not come back to zero. A new scale and all is well.


Daniel


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## darkzero

Congrats Bob! You must be so excited. Sorry to hear about the scale, hopefully it might be ok.




BVH said:


> The chuck guard materials have been ordered.



Did you have to pay for them?

I noticed that the PM1236 is now sold in standard package & a preferred package. I'm wondering if the chuck guard is something that they omitted & is only included with the preferred package (although it's not stated). But it does look like you have the foot brake that's listed part of the preferred package.

Man you polished her up nicely, looks very clean! And your's does look exactly like WillQ's machine.


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## Davo J

BVH said:


> These slings do, in fact, look like some of those that come with the cheap tie down units that the big box stores sell. However, these are manufactured lifting slings. I bought them from a rigging equipment online store. The tag on the sling indicates three different types of lifting configurations and in this lifting configuration, each sling is rated at 3,200 pounds. I had planned to use both of them together for redundancy and/or load sharing. Thanks for the warning on the tie down straps!
> 
> Thank you all on the info on the scale and reading head. Makes me feel a little more positive that it might still be OK. Once I get power to the machine, we'll see what happens. Good info on the higher res scales. They also advertise magnetic scales. I would assume that my screen unit would not be compatible but just for general info, are they superior and if so, in what ways?
> 
> Davo J, thanks for the pics of the scale parts. I enjoy the technical details. So does the glass have some type of fine coating on it and the reading head works like a hard drive head?
> 
> The chuck guard materials have been ordered.



I never seen lifting straps like that, though we are always behind over here, LOL I was just concerned.

The glass in the scale has grating lines down it and uses infra red diodes and sensors.
You can see more about it here
http://www.zsinstruments.com/scales_about.aspx
And here
http://www.digitalreadoutsystem.com/Jenix/jenix_dro.htm

As for the magnetic scales, I have hear good reports but for the home shop I cant see the advantage unless you have a machine where a standard glass scale wont fit, as they are a lot more expensive. The glass scales are available like said elsewhere in the slimline and you can also get them in micro as this is what I fitted to my compound.
At the moment the magnetic are just floating the Chinese market so they are still expensive compared to glass, in another few years the price will come down like the glass has.
When I first bought my 2 Meister's and 7 scales 5 years ago it cost me $2150 delivered, now days I could have the same for around $1250. The other Sino I have is only $550 delivered for the 3 axis.

Hopefully it's just your reader head tabs rubbing on the scale and it wont need replacing. Did it come with the plastic pieces for spacing the reader head? If so you could take the scale off and insert these then run it back and forth while it's off to check it. 

With your saddle lock (this has been brought up before) why don't the Chinese designing the lathes for DRO to be fitted. Things like the lock, oil filler hole etc could be placed to accommodate it. My oil hole was right in the way of the scale with a knurled headed bolt, so I took it out and replaced it with a grub screw with some plumbers tape wrapped around it so it was tight fit and wouldn't vibrate down.

You could replace that aluminum strip on the cross slide with something thinner, I think mine is only 6mm thick with the 5mm tapped holes in it to hold the scale and countersunk holes to attach it to the cross slide.

Dave


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## BVH

darkzero said:


> Did you have to pay for them?
> 
> I noticed that the PM1236 is now sold in standard package & a preferred package. I'm wondering if the chuck guard is something that they omitted & is only included with the preferred package (although it's not stated). But it does look like you have the foot brake that's listed part of the preferred package.



No, I did not have to pay extra. They said that enough customers complained about the guard being in the way that they ordered this batch without them. No mention of it being included only with the prefered pkg.

Davo, No plastic spacers that I saw. I'll play around a bit more with the alignment screws that are on the reader head attachment bracket. (There's 4 Allen set screws and some bracket mounting screw slots that affect alignment in all 3 axis. Certainly I hope the scale still works but if I have to spring for a new one, well, a lesson well learned. If this is the worst thing I'll do to my new toy, then I'll be happy.


Well, after many hours of lifting here, blocking there, lifting there, blocking here, I finally got the lathe off the pallet and skid and sitting high enough on 4x8 blocks to clear the cherry picker legs. Until I'm ready to lift, I'm leaving the cherry picker in-place, with slings and blocking snugly against the correct lifting point as a back up in-case an earthquake should strike or the cat happens to run into it. 







Got my risers last night and will drill the 12, 9/16" holes to mount them to the stands and for the Mason feet. Then some primer and black paint. If all goes well, I'll probably lift on Monday.






The 8" wide "J" bar will slide under and lock around outer riser tube on each side so I can lift the lathe with my floor jack and install the casters should I ever need to move the lathe. The casters will use the Mason feet holes to mount. Once the lathe is in its' final setting with stands attached, two crossbars will be welded between the two risers to complete the "box".

Lastly, I'm thinking of having the welder make an 11" deep by full width tool tray between the stands. It will mount about 3 inches back of the front edge of the stands and about 6" above the brake pedal. I'll have to move the blue, sheet metal modesty shield to the very back of the stands.


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## Davo J

Those risers wont be going anywhere, they look good.
With the tray it sounds like a good idea. I would recommend making 2 trays, the first one being a slide out chip tray, and cut a hole in the standard tray to suit. These lathes are a pain to clean under so the extra room would be great, and you can take the tray to the garbage to empty it.
I plan on making a new stand and will be doing this to mine. If you are going to do it, cut the lathe tray hole 1 inch smaller than needed and then fold the tray edge down at 45 degrees all the way around.

Your tooling tray sounds good. With my cupboards I put ply wood shelves on the bottom shelf, it spans across the square tubes and brings it up to the bottom of the door so you don't have to dig down in their.
At the moment I have a 2 draw filing cabinet under one side and keep my chucks etc in it. For a standard height lathe it wouldn't fit, but with the risers it does.

Dave


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## StrikerDown

*Where's the beef?*

Right there! Those are very beefy risers, good job! 

Good idea being able to move/lift it easier at a later date.


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## precisionworks

*Re: Where's the beef?*



> I'm wondering if the chuck guard is something that they omitted


$10 on eBay


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## darkzero

*Re: Where's the beef?*



precisionworks said:


> $10 on eBay



Great price if someone's interested as long as no one bids it up. Those all lexan Flexbar shields are expensive starting at $120! Highway robbery if you ask me for what it is.


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## StrikerDown

*Re: Where's the beef?*



precisionworks said:


> $10 on eBay



But $25 for shipping? I wonder how big of a lathe this thing would fit. Shipping seems a little pricey for a relatively light weight part. 

Edit:
It looks like the part new goes for 125-200 depending on size. Guess the shipping is not too bad if the part goes for the right price.


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## precisionworks

*Re: Where's the beef?*

Fits 12"-16" swing machines with up to a 12" diameter chuck. Retail is $181


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## BVH

*Re: Where's the beef?*

Slow but steady progress last couple of days. Big relief off my mind now that the lift is complete.












Blocks are under non-feet ends of risers until I get the two cross braces welded in place.






Because I didn't want to take off the carriage DRO, I had to lift outboard of the bed by at least 3.5" on the back side. I figured if I did this on the front side, it would equalize the lifting forces on both sides and also take care of the problem of the slings possibly bending the three shafts. I used a 4x6 under a 2x10. The 2X came to the front edge of the bed at the lift point, an inch short of hitting the shaft and the 4X stuck out 4" beyond the bed. Same on the back side. I was so proud of this setup. The lathe bed resting on the solid boards also helped to keep the lathe from trying to rotate while being lifted. I had two each, 1 ton lifting slings just in case one broke. Everything in the lift was at a minimum, twice the capacity of the weight of the lathe. It's interesting how much I planned and analyzed before the lift, trying to anticipate all the possible issues. I'm sure by now, most of you have seen the glaring problem in the pics? I'll give you some blank lines and some time to see it if you haven't by now.










Two neighbors came over along with my wife to assist and steady the lathe. I conducted a pre job safety meeting laying out what not to do and what to do and what the goals were. Lift lathe, place left stand under lathe foot, insert left brake pedal shaft into left stand and brake linkage sleeve, move right stand in place, insert right brake pedal shaft thru stand hole, install drip pan, put some silicone around each bolt hole, lower lathe and start each bolt by hand to ensure it is not cross threaded. This all went like clock work until I started to lower the lathe. Then I saw "IT". The chip tray is in the way of all those lifting blocks! OMG, I forgot about having to clear the chip tray! Well, the lift wasn't a total loss. But my pride in my planning was a little bruised. I ended up blocking under the lathe feet above the stands, lowering it on the blocks and removing the 4X and cutting a longer 2x to fit under the front edge of the bed and sticking out 4" in back to get the DRO scale clearance. I then ran the slings between the shafts and the lathe bed on the front. Back up in the air, remove the temp blocks, lower it down, thread the bolts and finished! I had about 3/16" clearance to remove the lifting block and slings. Man, I'm glad that's over. I'm always very nervous when doing these types of lifts. I can just see the new lathe crumpled on whats left of my concrete slab!


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## Davo J

*Re: Where's the beef?*

Great to see it all went well in the end, we all have times like this where something is in the way that we never thought of. You did the right thing planning it out with everyone their.

Those are different lifting straps to what was first pictured, and are like the ones I have here.
Did you buy them or did one of your neighbors have them?

Dave


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## darkzero

*Re: Where's the beef?*

Good to see it on the stand! I was going to mention (not sure if anyone else did) but glad to hear you applyed silicone before setting it down on the chip pan. Even though I never planned on using flood coolant oil would probably still drip down into the cabinets.


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## wquiles

*Re: Where's the beef?*



BVH said:


>


I "really" like how you did those raisers, with the wider support arms for the Mason feet 

Do you have other pictures on how you are tying them together? I though I saw something about a cross-piece?

Will


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## precisionworks

*Re: Where's the beef?*

You may want to make some angled "shields" that mount over the extensions - imagine a tent that peaks over the Mason mount & slopes down to the floor. I had similar extensions on the South Bend & caught them more than a couple of times when not paying attention. They will eventually get you if you leave them exposed.


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## BVH

*Re: Where's the beef?*

I don't remember how to do a multiple quote response.

Davo, I bought the soft purple slings at the same time and place as I did the orange slings, specifically to use with my VSS-1 tank light. I didn't want to scratch it! I decided to use them because they are twice as wide as the orange ones. According to the tags, I'd have over 6000 lbs capacity with the orange and 4000 with the purples. The hook that came on the cherry picker would not accommodate the 4 ends of the purple slings. I went out yesterday and bought a beefier and larger hook.

Will, DarkZero, It must have been one of your posts in your lathe thread about using the silicone. I don't know how I remembered such a small but good detail, but I did. Thanks! I'm not going to use flood coolant but eventually, some type of oil or other fluid would probably find its' way down thru those holes.

Will Q, I have two, 3' pieces of the 1/4" wall tubing left and will connect the two risers together with them. I'll probably set them in an inch or so from the riser front and rear edges. I might even put some sheet metal over them and end up with a lower storage tray as long as it won't interfere with the brake pedal operation.

Barry, I specifically remember reading one of your posts about extended riser feet tripping hazards. That is one of the two reasons I went with extensions at only the outer sides of the risers. The other was that I didn't want to have to deal with 8 contact points when leveling the lathe. The tent idea sounds like a good one! No matter what, though, I know I'll "rediscover" the extensions when I least expect it.


----------



## BVH

Wills...Did you have to do any re-drilling of the brake pedal shafts to obtain a level or slightly lower than level "at rest" brake pedal? If I were to drive the last roll pin home, I would end up with a brake pedal that is elevated between 25 and 30 degrees from horizontal. See Pic. Each of the 3 segments of the linkage attach with two screws. I thought maybe only one might be needed and tried to elongate the overall linkage length by using only one screw at one joint. This works to bring down the pedal but then the bell crank is nowhere near the adjustment mechanism (it's horizontal and more than 3/4" away from the adjustment screw) and proper microswitch adjustment cannot be made. I can't see any other method other than drilling two new pin holes out on the pedal part of the shaft.

This is how the mechanism looks when each segment of the linkage is screwed using both screws. I believe this is the correct positioning of everything. But using this method, the pedal is raised up 30 degrees from horizontal as in the second pic.


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## wquiles

OK, Will #1 answering back: I left mine "as is". Have not done any adjustment of any kind, but I will take a picture to show you how it looks on my lathe 

Will


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## BVH

So yours is also "up" like the pic? If so, maybe if it was horizontal at rest, my foot might slip off as I was pressing down. Could that be their thought process....Hmmm. Or maybe more leverage as approaching horizontal.


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## wquiles

My apologies for the dirt. Here are my pics at various angles going from top, middle, and bottom views:
















Will


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## BVH

OK, thank you very much WillQ. Looks very close to how mine is. Just doesn't seem right though. It's kind of awkward to have to start the downward press with the toe of the foot. Someday, I might re-drill to brind it down to maybe 5 or 10 degrees above horizontal. Too many other tasks need to be done to be able to finally make some chips - although, I've really enjoyed this last week getting to work with my hands and brain getting to where I'm at now. When I was looking at WillDZs' machine, I seem to remember that the pedal was more horizontal but I was on overload taking everything else in for the first time in viewing a PM1236.


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> Once the lathe is in its' final setting with stands attached, two crossbars will be welded between the two risers to complete the "box".



Bob, your risers came out great! I also like the lifting plate you had made up.

I'm wondering, if you weld two cross bars to join the two risers to form a "base", would that affect leveling of the lathe, as is in removing twist out of the bed? Unless the lathe is leveled before hand & the cross bars can be welded on without affecting anything or if smaller/thinner square tubing is used that will still allow twisting. 

That would suck to have the bars welded on & it ended up being too rigid & won't allow you to level the bed properly. Just a thought. 





BVH said:


> When I was looking at WillDZs' machine, I seem to remember that the pedal was more horizontal but I was on overload taking everything else in for the first time in viewing a PM1236.



As I mentioned elsewhere, even my brake assy is different from your's & WillQ's. Mine does not sit perfectly level but it does not sit as high as yours. My shaft had two sets of holes drilled. I figured they just screwed up drilling the first hole & drilled another one. I rememeber trying both holes & just chose the hole/position I liked the best. Can't remember if I choose the higher or lower position

I thought about drilling a new hole to make it level as that kind of thing bothers me. I can't remember but I think I chose not to because of the amount of stroke/swing the brake assy had. I have mine where I press the pedal a little & then it engages the micro switch to cut power to the spindle, then when I press futher down it then engages the spindle's drum brake. Not sure if it's supposed to be like this or adjusted to where the two actions activate much closer together. I like it this way cause sometimes I give a quick press on the pedal to turn off the spindle without having to reach for a lever or switch. And with the long stroke I think it's better for times where you are really in the mess & quickly react by stomping hard on it. 

If yours actuates similar to mine, I think it's best to have the pedal slightly high. Again, I can't quite remember but I think I determined that if I set the pedal to rest level, pressing the pedal with it's full action to engage the brake would leave the pedal tilting down too far. With a great amount of downwards slope when the brake engages, you're foot might be able to slip off if there happened to be any fluids on the pedal or on your shoes preventing you to apply firm pressure. 

If it helps, with 0° being level, my pedal sites at about 5° (above 0°) when resting & 340° (20° under 0°) with the brake engaged.

I hope this all makes a bit of sense. Of course YMMV & this works for me. I would say just adjust it to what's most comfortable for you. After all, you will be the one operating it, who cares what the pedal looks like.















Earlier you mentioned having to insert the shaft for the brake pedal & the other end before positioning the stands to mount the lathe. IIRC my shaft on the left end is one piece & slides into the pedal. I was able to put the pedal into place while the stands were pretty much into position. But I don't remember all the details clearly anymore.


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## BVH

darkzero said:


> Bob, your risers came out great! I also like the lifting plate you had made up.
> 
> I'm wondering, if you weld two cross bars to join the two risers to form a "base", would that affect leveling of the lathe, as is in removing twist out of the bed? Unless the lathe is leveled before hand & the cross bars can be welded on without affecting anything or if smaller/thinner square tubing is used that will still allow twisting.
> 
> That would suck to have the bars welded on & it ended up being too rigid & won't allow you to level the bed properly. Just a thought.
> 
> I'll admit, this has been something that has been nagging me in the background. I'm glad you brought it up. I'm not a structural engineer (but have a fair amount of laymens' structural knowledge - whatever that is) but supporting the lathe on these risers with only outboard Mason feet and no support on the inboard side of the risers, seems as though the weight of the lathe would want bow out the unsupported center? But then I tell myself that this can't happen because the stand is bolted solid at both ends of the top to the lathe making it rigid and the risers are bolted to the stand so therefore, it can't bow. I keep going back and forth, back and forth. What would happen if you were to screw up all 4 of your inboard Mason feet? (not counting that it would affect machine level). I definitely don't want to mess myself up on this.
> 
> Help! More opinions sought.
> 
> As I mentioned elsewhere, even my brake assy is different from your's & WillQ's. Mine does not sit perfectly level but it does not sit as high as yours. My shaft had two sets of holes drilled. I figured they just screwed up drilling the first hole & drilled another one. I rememeber trying both holes & just chose the hole/position I liked the best. Can't remember if I choose the higher or lower position
> 
> I thought about drilling a new hole to make it level as that kind of thing bothers me. I can't remember but I think I chose not to because of the amount of stroke/swing the brake assy had. I have mine where I press the pedal a little & then it engages the micro switch to cut power to the spindle, then when I press futher down it then engages the spindle's drum brake. Not sure if it's supposed to be like this or adjusted to where the two actions activate much closer together. Mine actuates exactly as you describe.I like it this way cause sometimes I give a quick press on the pedal to turn off the spindle without having to reach for a lever or switch. And with the long stroke I think it's better for times where you are really in the mess & quickly react by stomping hard on it.
> 
> If yours actuates similar to mine, I think it's best to have the pedal slightly high. Again, I can't quite remember but I think I determined that if I set the pedal to rest level, pressing the pedal with it's full action to engage the brake would leave the pedal tilting down too far. With a great amount of downwards slope when the brake engages, you're foot might be able to slip off if there happened to be any fluids on the pedal or on your shoes preventing you to apply firm pressure. Excellent point.
> 
> If it helps, with 0° being level, my pedal sites at about 5° (above 0°) when resting & 340° (20° under 0°) with the brake engaged.
> 
> I hope this all makes a bit of sense. Of course YMMV & this works for me. I would say just adjust it to what's most comfortable for you. After all, you will be the one operating it, who cares what the pedal looks like.
> 
> 
> Earlier you mentioned having to insert the shaft for the brake pedal & the other end before positioning the stands to mount the lathe. IIRC my shaft on the left end is one piece & slides into the pedal. I was able to put the pedal into place while the stands were pretty much into position. But I don't remember all the details clearly anymore. The brake pedal has its' own shaft that has about a 5 inch extension that goes into the left stand. It then pins into a short 1" or so coupler to which another short shaft is pinned to and its' end has the bell crank on it. Just thinking about it now, if I took out the 2 roll pins holding the pedal shaft to the pedal, there is probably enough room to slide it into the right stand and the holes (crude bushings, ha ha ha) are probably big enough to angle the pedal and shaft out from between both stands.



I was bound and determined to use my pricey Footmaster machine caster/feet. Got some scrap 3/8 plate, cut it to size, drilled and tapped a 1/2 13 center hole and drilled and bolted the casters to the plate. So to move the lathe, I simply jack up each end, unscrew the Mason feet, drop in a 1/2 x 3/4 bolt, tighten it up and lower the lathe. Good to roll!


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## Davo J

I really like those caster feet. They would probably carry 4 lathes around.
I was going to add about my wheels here but will make a new thread.

Dave


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## BVH

darkzero said:


> ..........I'm wondering, if you weld two cross bars to join the two risers to form a "base", would that affect leveling of the lathe, as is in removing twist out of the bed? Unless the lathe is leveled before hand & the cross bars can be welded on without affecting anything or if smaller/thinner square tubing is used that will still allow twisting.
> 
> That would suck to have the bars welded on & it ended up being too rigid & won't allow you to level the bed properly. Just a thought.



It took a long time to fall asleep last night with this on my mind. WillC, I'm still glad you brought it up because it was lurking in the background. This morning I was thinking about larger lathes that come on solid/one piece stands (cast iron?) Wouldn't I be doing the same thing in essence by installing the cross bars?

I just remembered Rays' 2x4 box riser. Ray, your risers have support only on the outboard tubes in the pics I saw and IIRC, at one point, you did not have the cross tube installed. Did you notice any sagging/bowing in the center/at the unsupported inboard riser tubes when the weight of the lathe was put back on the overall riser, both with and without the cross tube? Did you have any issues with leveling your lathe?


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## StrikerDown

I have not noticed any sag or bowing anywhere. It seems to be quite rigid in fact I had to shim the front edge on the tail end to get it to level. It may not have been an issue with solid (no rubber) leveling feet though. Also it did settle and need re leveling when I checked it a couple months later. It has settled in for the time being... until the next earthquake! Next time I think I will use solid feet.


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## BVH

Thank you Ray. I PM'd you too late, I C.


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## Davo J

I would put at least 2 more feet on the inside of the cabinet for support. They would only need to be just taking weight and having them in the centre wouldn't affect you leveling much at all.

Dave


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## precisionworks

Everything in the photo above is cast iron except the Siberian Husky  When changing the level adjustment on one end the other end moves slightly but it's still easy enough to level.


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## darkzero

I used to have 8 Mason feet & replaced the inner ones with solid mounts. I use the solid mounts for leveling & the Mason feet on the outside for support.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-To-a-PM1236&p=3624085&viewfull=1#post3624085


Those FM casters/feet look nice & it would be shame not to use them since you have them. Maybe you can do what I did & use the Mason feet on the inside for leveling & use the FMs on the outside for support? Or use the FMs for leveling if they would be better but still having them on the outside. That way you don't have to go through the trouble of swapping them anytime you want to move the lathe.


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## Greta

Test post


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## BVH

Thank you, Greta. For some reason, I could go anywhere on CPF, no problem but since last night, I got a "database error" trying to get into here. All better now.

I tried out the Footmasters last night and rolled my PM to within 18" of her new home. Rolls like a dream. Very easy for me, a 145 lb person, to push around. I used my lifting jig and the floor jack to bump the wheels over the carpet threshold, not wanting to damage it. 

The X scale is trashed. I took it off and played around with it powered up and could occasionally get it to function but very intermittently. I then took off the end cap and slid the reader out. The aluminum tab on the end was severely bent up tweaking the read head. When I turned it vertical, a small piece of glass dropped out. Oh well, I'll order one tomorrow.

A question. I was going to put the chuck back on and noticed that two of the cam pins on the back plate are loose in that I can wiggle them back and forth a tiny bit. The 3rd is tight. In checking the Allen screws that keep them from rotating, one screw was tight, (not on the pin that was tight) the other 2, loose.

Should the screws be tight and the pins tight?








WillC, I need to ultimately use the Mason feet for height adjustment because with the way the stand is built, the very minimum rise I can achieve is a full 6.5" (as in the pic) 2" from the tubing and 4.5" from the footmasters with 3/8" plate added. That's a bit high, even for me.

I decided to go with only 1 cross bar in the center instead of two. I thought that might give me just a bit of flex to maybe help with leveling. I was able to drill a center hole and weld a nut on the cross bar for 1 Mason foot.

WillC, I found that, as you indicate, the brake pedal shaft is not one long shaft. I drove the pins out and was easily able to remove the brake pedal. I will re-drill it to lower the pedal a bit above horizontal.


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## Davo J

Looking good.
It doesn't matter about the cam lock pins being able to rock backward and forward, as they are locked in by the socket head screws. Same with the socket head screws, I just usually nip them up, but it is the the head that does the locking for the pins.
If you tightened the camlock pins up, the camlocks on the lathe would no longer be able to lock the chuck on, you need to be able to adjust the height to had the cam lock sit in the right place.
This Grizzly manual will show you better than I can explain it.
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g9036_m.pdf

Dave


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## BVH

Had a few hours of time tonight and thought I would dis assemble the 3-Jaw for cleaning and lube - as it turns extremely rough and the teeth and scroll plate look like they were never lubed with anything. First thing to do, remove chuck from backing plate by removing the Allen screws. Man, they are tight all the way out! What's this? Two of the 3 screws have most of their threads mashed/rolled over. Look down the holes and what do I see? Backing plate and chuck holes are not aligned well. The threaded holes on the chuck are completely maxed out to the inboard side of the backing plate holes while there is lots of space on the outboard sides. The assembler had to have mashed down hard on the screws to get them started and as they went in, the not-yet-engaged threads were rolled flat as they rubbed on the backing plate. At the very least, I need new screws but is this a defective chuck or are they made that way for a very tight fit for good, tight alignment? I've gone no further so I could possibly put it back together, install it and when I'm powered up, check runout.

Beyond that, I assume the 3 blank threaded equi-distant holes on the backing plate are used with longer bolts to "push" the backing plate off the chuck? Does the chuck need to go back on the backing plate in the same position? (I know the jaws need to go back as they came out)


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## gadget_lover

I'm not an expert, but I do know that the boss/recess on the backing plate and chuck are supposed to locate the chuck, not the screws. The holes should provide clearance. 

As one alternative, a few minutes with a file will give you the clearance you need.

Daniel


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## darkzero

All of my cam pins have play with the hex screws in place. I believe they need to be for proper lock up. You should adjust the cam pins on every chuck so that you get good lock up. I marked my spindle & have a reference on each chuck/backplate so that they always mount with the same holes. On my spindle, somewhere near the taper there is a red dot (paint) used for a reference mark that came on there. I made my own mark though on near a camlock with a center punch & with each chuck/backplate I check for lowest TIR in all three positions before marking them. 

I agree with Daniel, just open up the holes a bit & you'll be good. The boss on the adapter & the recess on the chuck should be a pretty tight fit.

I kept the stock 3 jaw & use it quite often for certain operations. I'm sure my holes don't line up perfectly but my holes are not like the way you described though. I slightly undersized the boss on the adapter so I could adjust the run out. And with the "play" in the holes I'm able to do so. Got about 0.002" TIR stock, the last time I adjusted it I was able to get down to read 0.0005" & left it at that. But the downside to doing this is that it would be much easier to bump the chuck out of round & should be checked often.


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## BVH

OK, thank you guys for the info. I get another chance to use my cordless Dremel. I love that tool. I've had a few of the Costco specials which worked for years but the Dremel, the higher Voltage rated one of their two models of cordless, just feels great in the hand and does a great job.  Got the chuck apart and as most have said here before, it's kind of gooey and rocky in there. I'll give it a solvent bath tomorrow and grease it with my new tub of Bison grease. Jaw #3 would not come out by hand after being released from the scroll without some medium tapping with a light hammer and wood block. Found some machining burrs on the non-bearing surface that was catching and used a point file to remove it. Works better now. 

It's taking longer than I thought to get myself up and running but I'm having lots of fun with all the new challenges. So far, I think it's as much fun as making something but then again, I haven't started making things yet.


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## precisionworks

> but is this a defective chuck or are they made that way for a very tight fit for good, tight alignment?


Sounds like a Made on Friday afternoon chuck, assembled with lots of sake and little else. Re manufacture it as if nothing had already been done & it will be fine.


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## BVH

Hopefully one last chuck/spindle question. Got the chuck all clean and lubed up and it works SO MUCH easier! Slightly enlarged the two mis-fitting backing plate holes so all new bolts go in normally.

The cam locks were difficult to get undone when I took the chuck off but I managed to do it with the PM 8" bar and square tool. I've tried as hard as the 8" bar will allow without bending but I cannot lock the cams down. I brought all 3 down evenly. I made sure all three cam shafts were loose in the backing plate. Is it reasonable to use a little more leverage? (I did not change the depth of any of the cam shafts) from their original position)


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## precisionworks

> I cannot lock the cams down.


This is not the time to get out the BFH or the extra long Tommy Bar :shakehead

There _should be_ a "minimum" V-mark at 3:00 and a "maximum" V-mark at 6:00 (or 90° and 180° of angular rotation). If the cam does not go to the 3:00 position, turn the camlock stud out one turn. If the cam goes past the 6:00 position turn the stud in one turn.

Here's a photo of the locks on my machine - there is a V-mark at 6:00 but there is none at 3:00






Even if there's no mark at all, the cams MUST lock somewhere between 3:00 and 6:00. If the rotation is less than 3:00 the cam will self loosen. If it's past 6:00 it will do the same. The cam in the photo is locking around 4:00, well within the acceptable range.


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## BVH

Thanks Barry. V's at 3 and 6 as you describe. My indicator goes to between 4:00 and 4:30 on all three.


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## precisionworks

That sounds perfect. If you try rotating the studs out one turn the cams will likely go past 6:00.


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## BVH

I see now I was not describing the problem right. The cams have not locked home at the 4:00 to 4:30 position but they will not rotate any further. I guess I'm expecting each one to feel like linkage when it goes "over-center". Kind of a detent feeling. I will try one turn out and see where they lock home. If too loose/beyond second "V", then I know they need to be back where they are now. Don't know why it would have changed but they will just not go far enough to lock home.

1 turn out went too far. Maybe there is not over-center/detent feeling?

I don't know why I was thinking each cam would snap into place with the indicator pointing at the 2nd V. So to make a long story, short, Just tighten as much as I can with the 8" rod and as long as the indicator is between the two V's, I'm good to go.


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## precisionworks

> Just tighten as much as I can with the 8" rod and as long as the indicator is between the two V's, I'm good to go.


Exactly.

If you examine the mechanism you'll see that the outside of the cam starts to engage the cut in the stud as soon as the cam rotates clockwise past 12:00. There is no over-center position as engagement continues to increase with angular rotation ... until the 180° mark is reached. Once the cam is turned past 180° the cam starts to disengage. That's why lock up must occur between 3:00 and 6:00. 

The cams & studs serve no purpose other that to pull the female taper in the back of the chuck against the male taper of the spindle nose. If one turn out or one turn in doesn't get the cam to lock up where desired you can try swapping the positions of the studs & this will sometimes give better results.


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> I get another chance to use my cordless Dremel.



I love Dremels! A Dremel was my very first power tool that I got in my early teens. I still have that one but the bearings are shot now. The Dremel 770 (7.2v NiCad, red accent model) was my very first cordless Dremel. I used that thing for everything & I used to keep in handy in my car. When the li-ion models came out I knew I had to get one but waited. Then the 8200 came out & I had to have one. I don't even use my corded Dremels anymore since this one performs so well. My my old Dremel drill press does not fit this model.




BVH said:


> I guess I'm expecting each one to feel like linkage when it goes "over-center". Kind of a detent feeling.



As you probably have realized by now, the cams won't give you a lock up/snap in feeling. It just gets tight & snug. I don't use the chuck style key that it came with though. I simply use a long 3/8" ratchet with an extension.


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## darkzero

Hey Bob, so when do the chips start flying? :twothumbs


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## precisionworks

> I simply use a long 3/8" ratchet with an extension.


I'm a believer in getting the cams snug & would never feel safe using only the T-wrench. 






Just guessing at the torque but certainly north of 100 ft/lb.


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## BVH

Today has been one of those days that when I encountered an issue and couldn't solve it in a reasonable time, I "played" with some other aspect of getting the setup finished. My first concern is that the riser is too stiff as WillC talked about. I was going to connect power and begin the break in while doing other tasks. Before running, I wanted to play with getting it somewhat level even though the mason feet are on my carpet. I came very close to getting it done but I ended up needing to lower the right front corner as the final tweak but the foot came off the ground before getting it level front-to-back. So it's resting on only 3 feet. If I put my weight on the foot, It comes into level on both ends of the bed front-to-back. Tomorrow is another day but I have a feeling I may need to remove the cross brace.

OK, I'm clear on the cams.

I really appreciate all of your input and sort of feel like I was a pain in the butt today. But here's another area where I am very green. For fun, I wanted to see how much runout the OD of the chuck produced in all 3 positions as WillC mentioned. I set up the test indicator and WOW! .0085". I tried the other two. .002" and .0095". I then chucked up my 1.5" Linear shaft and got .00075" as close as I could get to the jaws. That meets specs so I guess I'm good to go. Although I will use my torque wrench and an extension to make sure I'm tight. 100 lbs, Barry or is your chuck and its' pins larger than mine?

How do they grind the chuck backing plate female taper so perfectly that it meets the spindle male taper at exactly the point where the backing plate rear face meets the spindle face?


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## StrikerDown

Rather than removing the cross brace try slipping a couple washers between the riser and lathe base for a little extra lift where needed. My set up needed to be shimmed also. I didn't want to remove the cross brace as it really helps reinforce the whole thing... riser and lathe bases.


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## BVH

Thank you Ray! I completely forgot and you reminded me that I had shimmed the risers when I installed the bases to eliminate the slight "rock" in them from not being 100% flat or the stands were not flat. I just took a look and as it turns out, the shims on that stand are, in fact, working against me. What are the chances of shimming it the "wrong" way the first time?? I guess 50%.

What lube is everyone using on the exposed change gears. I have some heavy, sticky red grease I thought I would try. Seems like it would stay in-place the longest. I adjusted the change gear backlash yesterday. There was quite a bit of slop at some positions and less in others. I tightened it up so that there is a minimum of free play in the tightest position.


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## precisionworks

> How do they grind the chuck backing plate female taper so perfectly that it meets the spindle male taper at exactly the point where the backing plate rear face meets the spindle face?


The tapers are ground to a standard 7° 7' 30" (both male & female). The spindle nose taper base diameter on a D1-4 is 2.5005", minus .0000" and plus .0005". As long as both tapers are ground well and both diameters are exact the two parts will match as designed.

The tapers centralize the chuck and assure good repeatability when remounting the chuck.


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## BVH

Still chasing a moving target. Am I splitting Molecules here? IIRC, and if I understood correctly, Barry said something like level right-to-left is not as important as level front-to-back on both the head and tailstock ends of the ways. (the latter producing a twist in the bed) The best I can do with such a rigid riser is 6 divisions off on the Starrett 199. So if 6 divisions = .003" over 12" and my level points across the bed are 5" apart, then am I within .0015" to level? And if so, is this acceptable for a hobbyist?

(I tried the shimming - up to 1/4" and the effect I'm experiencing was almost the same - example: raising the right front also raises the left front, not in a 1-1 ratio but enough to cause me to be chasing my tail)


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## Anglepoise

There are many ways to set up the lathe correctly. When we 'level' the lathe , what we are really doing is getting the lathe bed settled evenly on the bench without any twist on the bed. This is the most important thing we must aim for. One of the simplest and also one of the best is to lay your level on the crosslide 90° to the lathe axis. Get the bubble settled and then run the carriage from the chuck end to the tailstock. Bubble must not move. Then you have the bed without twist. Now I have not examined these thin sheet metal lathe stands that the Chinese make but you must get the same weight evenly distributed between the adjustable feet. Once that is done, you can then adjust the lathe to the stand bolts to get the bubble stationary.
Good luck........You are on the right track.


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## precisionworks

> One of the simplest and also one of the best is to lay your level on the crosslide 90° to the lathe axis. Get the bubble settled and then run the carriage from the chuck end to the tailstock. Bubble must not move. Then you have the bed without twist.



That is one of the best ideas I've seen in ages :thumbsup:

Much easier than headstock-adjust to level, tailstock-adjust to level, etc. 



> The best I can do with such a rigid riser is 6 divisions off on the Starrett 199.


I have to believe that my solid cast iron stand is at least as rigid as your tube frame support, & I can always dial both ends in to within 2 divisions on the 199. Try moving the supporting points or slightly shimming the supporting points to get both readings closer.


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## BVH

Progress! I was down south for two days so no work until this morning. I cleaned the garage to start fresh. I suspected some of my trouble leveling the lathe was due to trying to play with it with the feet on the thin carpet. Made the decision to put the machine in its' final spot. To do that, I needed to finish the electrical hookup. Two OSH runs later, done! I had a 240V single throw/three pole leviton motor starter switch from when I was building my electric bike. I planted it in a two-gang box just above the receptacle - about 2" above the back of the lathe, behind the electrical box. Now I don't have to look at the pilot light on all the time. I then had to put the wheels back on to move it into place, then change back to the Mason feet and mark their circle on the carpet. Once the carpet was removed and the lathe was placed, I began the leveling. It took about an hour and some .020" shims on the right front. I ended up using Anglepoise's method with the level on the crosslide. That is really slick!! Final level front to back was both ends exactly equal, one division high towards the back - with one caveat. I noticed when I started, that when the carriage traversed onto the gap, there was an immediate rise of about 1 1/2 divisions towards the rear which, if I'm calculating correctly, would be about .00075". I'd like to get rid of this but am not sure how the two tapper pins work. I thought they were threaded studs but as soon as I tried to loosen the nut, the pin was completely loose and pulled out. All 4 Allen head bolts are tight. What's the secret? In my early days of educating myself on lathes, I read a number of posts or other articles about "never remove a gap because getting it back properly aligned is a bear". It really shouldn't be any more difficult than leveling the lathe, should it?

Right to left leveling was dead on center.

Got a replacement scale coming. I thought about upgrading to magnetic - for about 2 minutes. It would also solve my inaccessible carriage lock bolt issue. But it's not to be at this point. 

Break-in is completed. I noticed the front of the motor housing was plenty hot after this. Normal?

Next is to find that good article on checking tailstock alignment and other alignments I can't remember right now.


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## precisionworks

Great to hear that the carpet was the problem, I knew your support could not be so rigid as to cause trouble. 



> I noticed when I started, that when the carriage traversed onto the gap, there was an immediate rise of about 1 1/2 divisions towards the rear which, if I'm calculating correctly, would be about .00075". I'd like to get rid of this ...


Pull the gap filler, scrape the bottom until it's clean & shiny, clean & scrape the gap recess, reassemble & test again. Most likely just a bit of egg roll (or casting sand) that's keeping it from seating fully. 



> I noticed the front of the motor housing was plenty hot after this. Normal?


It isn't unusual to measure motor surface temps of 75°-95° C (167°-203° F), which seem really hot to the touch. Look at the motor's insulation class which is probably A or B & you can calculate max allowable temp.



> find that good article on checking tail stock alignment


Checking it is easy but correcting it may take half a day. Insert your best center in the headstock (remove the chuck first) and install your other best center in the tailstock:






Look closely at the photo above & you'll see that the TS is close to .010" too low. I had to cut shims to fit all four sides of the TS to get mine to level:






An easy way to check for alignment is to install a tool that has an accurate center in the TS chuck & move that tool forward until the center slides over the headstock center. The indicator should not move in any direction.







A more conventional way to check & correct TS alignment is by making a test bar. The test bar is nice if you plan to make long cuts when turning between centers. My TS alignment is primarily so that an 18650 reamer will start at dead center & stay concentric with the flashlight bore.

Lathe test bar instructions.


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## precisionworks

Another good read is 

How to Keep Your Lathe in Trim, South Bend Lathe Bulletin H-4


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## BVH

Barry, what is the purpose of the two tapered pins with lock nuts on the gap filler? Do they set lateral alignments and the gap has been machined so that its' height is precise without the use of any shims or adjusters? I forgot to mention that both the apron and the gearbox came full with oil - middle or a little above the sight glass half mark. The spindle gearbox was completely empty. The sight glass was a teaser because there was a remnant of oil having been in there at one time and it appeared as though the oil was just a tad low.


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## Davo J

You usually get the pins out by tightening the nuts which pulls them out, they are to align the gap when it goes back in. When your first pull it off you usually have to break some bog where it joins the lathe bed and clean some paint off the surfaces.

I find you are better off not seating the taper pins homes until you align it with a dial indicator, my taper pins if driven home will make the gap out of alignment slightly, so I just use them to help pull it over when aligning it and they end up about 90% seated, but the bolts hold it in place.

I always clean gap and the lathe properly, and while tightening the bolts and inserting the taper pins, I place a mag base on the carriage and run the indicator along from the bed way onto the gap way. I do this on the top and one side of the V way at the front and the flat way at the rear. It has always measured up 0.00 on the dial indicator when I have replaced it this way. The bolt pushing against the head stock needs to have just a small amount of pressure when you aligning it all, then tightening up before you tighten the 4 bolts up tight.

With your spindle gearbox oil, did you run it without oil before you noticed? If you did you may have damaged the bearings as they would have run dry.

Dave


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## Anglepoise

BVH;3807918 The spindle gearbox was completely empty. [/QUOTE said:


> Could be wrong, but the spindle/gearbox holds around 2 gallons. I can not believe they shipped it empty ????


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## BVH

I've got enough heavy equipment repair background to know to physically check oil levels regardless of what indicators may tell me, so I caught it prior to running. I cleaned a 3' piece of 1/8" rod and snaked it around all the shafts and gears to hit bottom as evidenced by measuring amount of rod in case vrs the physical bottom of the case as viewed on the outside. (I did this after adding about 1 qt to see if the level would come up on the sight gauge). My first reading registered somewhere around 1/2". I then added a quart at a time until the sight glass showed a rising level. All told, it took only a little over 3 qts. I thought it would be much more but the sight glass level is only 2 5/16" above the floor of the case. I verified with the rod that the oil level on the rod was consistent with the height of the sight glass mark. There must have been oil in there at one time to have a few drops trapped in the glass and it did not leak out anywhere because the gearbox was not overfull nor were there any signs of leakage upon arrival nor now after being filled. The drain plug shows evidence of being removed.

But I seem to remember the number "3 gallons" in relation to changing the first case full of oil so I'm not sure what to think. And, if fact, I had bought 6 gallons of spindle oil for 1 change after break-in and one to have on-hand. Taking rough measurements of the spindle gear case, accounting for case thickness and converting cubic inches to gallons, indicates it should hold about 1.4 gallons - without deducts for displacement by the gears, shafts, etc.

Maybe the Wills will chime in with their experience on capacity.


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## precisionworks

> what is the purpose of the two tapered pins with lock nuts on the gap filler?


I don't have a clue as I've never removed or replaced that piece. If a part is so large that the gap filler has to come out there's a pretty good chance that it's too heavy for me to lift :devil:


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## BVH

Got my PowerTwist belts installed and made the missing gear cover hold down stud. Upon starting the lathe, "What's that noise?" I noticed when I got the lathe, that the spindle belt pulley did not have a retaining bolt and I thought that it's probably a press-fit. Guess not. The pulley had backed 3/8" off the shaft and was rubbing the cover. Installed a bolt which pulled the pulley back home and good to go.


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## wquiles

BVH said:


> Maybe the Wills will chime in with their experience on capacity.


I don't recall how much I added after the drain - I just added until it covered the glass opening. Definitely NOT 3 gallons, probably closer to 3-4 litters to a gallon or so.

Will


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> Maybe the Wills will chime in with their experience on capacity.



I also have not kept track of how much oil was required during a change. IIRC it's got to be less than 2 gallons for the entire lathe though (don't quote me on that). Checked the manual as well as the Grizzly manual & there's no mention of oil capacities. The G4003G manual is much more detailed & you should keep a copy handy if you don't have it already.

I initially ordered 3 gallons in preparation for topping off the lathe & the first oil change. When I received mine, the apron & gearbox were full. The headstock was just a tad low but still registered on the oil sight. 

My first oil change for the entire lathe I recall using less than 2 gallons & I overfilled the headstock & gearbox. I know this cause even though the sights did not look like they were overfilled I had oil leaks from all kinds of places. But only leaked after the lathe had been used and sat for a few days. Even with the wasted oil & topping off the headstock I still did not even open that 3rd gallon.

For my second oil change I picked up another 2 gallons (forgot I had an extra unused gallon) but I only changed the oil in the headstock & the gearbox that time. So with that extra gallon I had, I still have 1.75 gallons left sitting in the garage.


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## BVH

Thank you everybody!


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## BVH

OK, some cheap....I mean chip shots from the second attempt at a simple turning down of a mild steel 1/2" bar. A few days ago for my very first chip making session, I attempted to do a simple turning down of a 1/2" 1144 shaft. The only tool post I had was the 4-position that came with the lathe. The machining of the area where the tool sits was enough to draw blood, literally. I have some cheap Grizzly AXA insert tools from when I thought I was going to buy the 1127. So I shimmed a left hand tool to a cutting height of within a thousandth or so of center, maybe favoring a tiny bit low. Spindle speed of 325, DOC 005" and feed of .002 per revolution. I tried looking in the optimum SFPM charts of the Machinery's Handbook and I must be doing something wrong because I came up with something like 4000 spindle RPM and a feed of .008. Well, I just wanted to make some chips and a shiny shaft so I set to it. Try as I might with faster Spindle speed, My finish looked like crude threads. I noticed some chatter. I tried some lube, no change. I took the cheap tool out and noticed that the holder tip had been rubbing. Ahh, my chatter. OK, I'll just wait till I get the Dorian installed the the "Lathe Insert" Inserts.

Today, I set up the Dorian and set the height of a good quality BXA left hand holder in the tool holder, set cutting tip height at or a thousandth below center and chucked up some 1/2" mild steel bar expecting wonderful results. Results were not much better and by no means what I expect and not what I remember from using a small Southbend with HSS 30+ years ago. What am I doing wrong? Shouldn't the cut be almost a polished finish with spindle and feed speeds mentioned above?


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## darkzero

Good to see you are making chips now!

FYI, what you have is a RH cutter. On a conventional machine with the tool post in between you and the spindle, when the cutter is pointing to the left, that's a RH hand tool. Sounds confusing but it's called a RH tool because it's design to feed from the right to the left (towards the chuck). A LH tool would point to the right & is fed from the left to right (towards the TS).

In the picture your tool is a SCLCR. The "R" denotes RH. SCLCL would be LH.


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## BVH

Thanks for that info, Will. Maybe you need a recreational trip to Pismo. Then I can hire you for half a day to get me going.

I didn't think I'd be attempting "threading" operations so soon!


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> Thanks for that info, Will. Maybe you need a recreational trip to Pismo. Then I can hire you for half a day to get me going.



NP. The next time I'm in town, I'd be glad to stop by & show you some basics but unfortuantely by that time you'll probably get the hang of things. Been a about a year since we had a trip to Pismo. Last trip was Glamis & the next trip is this New Years which will be Glamis again.




BVH said:


> I didn't think I'd be attempting "threading" operations so soon!



:laughing:

Threading is one of those operations I was always scared of since you have to be aware. After you try it it's not so bad. 

My very first threads & what I learned threading on was a old Rockford. That thing had so much slop & backlash every operation was "fun" but once I learned the machine it still turned out great parts. I miss that lathe!








Compared to all those lathes I first learned threading on, I find threading on the PM1236 is pretty easy. It's the faster speeds & coarser threads that make it much more interesting. Threading on the HF814 was only a bit more interesting because the cross slide hand wheel (more like finger wheel) was so damn small.


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## precisionworks

> I came up with something like 4000 spindle RPM and a feed of .008



Your material looks like 1018 cold rolled steel which runs well at 400-500 sfpm ... run it around 3000 rpm (or your highest spindle speed if your machine will not run that fast). A spindle speed of 325 rpm is perfect if the material diameter is 5" :devil:

The speed should be set so that chips are peeling light tan or brown (right on the insert) & dropping off blue. If the chip is peeling blue/dropping red you'll need to slow down. If the chip peels with no color speed up until it is tan or brown.

FWIW cold rolled finishes poorly and hot rolled isn't any better as both are structural steels. 1144 Stressproof should give a very shiny finish when run at 300 sfpm.


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## BVH

Thanks for your guidance Barry. Chips were coming off with no color at all. I'll experiment more today. I need to get back to and understand the Machinerys Handbooks tables on SFPM and feed speeds.


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## Anglepoise

BVH said:


> Thanks for your guidance Barry. Chips were coming off with no color at all. I'll experiment more today. I need to get back to and understand the Machinerys Handbooks tables on SFPM and feed speeds.



Your problem is the nasty metal you are turning.On a test run, we all make the same mistake at sometime or another. We look at our inventory and pick a piece of metal that looks like it might be something not needed in the future. Turns out just like your photo.

Get hold of some free machining steel or use the metal you will be turning every day. For example, I turn 60% aluminum, and the balance Ti and SS. Check the finish quality on the metal you will be using every day.

Forget the printed feeds and speeds. These are guides for production not hobbyists. Most carbide inserts have geometry that is designed to remove far more metal in one pass than we are likely to use. Re read some of the posts on inserts and pick one with positive rake at the tip so it will cut properly when lightly skimming off a few thou. Keep the same test piece handy so you can use whenever you want to see how the bearings, spindle preload and gib tightness is settling down.

Good luck.

PS. My chuck spins at 650 rpm and has only seen its top speed of 2000rpm once or twice in the last 25 years. My previous lathe would not go over 1000. Only time a hobbyist needs fast speed is when you are turning small stuff ( 1/4 " and smaller )


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## BVH

Some basic housekeeping questions. Never thought about the cleanup till now after making some tan chips and spirals that fly everywhere. Do any of you use a shop vac and a paint brush for getting rid of the chips? Heavy rubber gloves or leather for use during cleaning? Finish up with some Costco throw away rags for final wipe? Any other techniques would be appreciated.

Personal protection. After a few moments of today's flying chips, I switched from safety glasses to a face shield. Is this what most use? Was wearing a polyester sweater and a few chips melted the spots where they landed. Leather apron best to use? Again, any other tips appreciated.

EDIT: Just an FYI, I pulled the lid off the headstock to replace the gasket. I used the occasion to dump the break-in oil, clean the case, replace the sight glass O-ring and tighten up all the key set screws. A complete oil refill took 3.3 Qts. A drain and refill will probably take a touch over 3 Qts due to the 1/8 to 3/16" of oil that is below the plug level.


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## precisionworks

> Do any of you use a shop vac and a paint brush for getting rid of the chips?


The farm supply stores sell a large diameter magnet (must be 3" or 4") that work great for ferrous materials. Nitrile gloves are nice for aluminum pickup. Anything missed by the magnet or the nitrile gloves gets blown off with high pressure air, then the surfaces are wiped with WypAll disposable cloths & re oiled.



> I switched from safety glasses to a face shield.


I always wear safety glasses with side shields.



> Leather apron best to use?


All cotton shirts & pants work well, as do cotton bibs. I wear long sleeves even in the summer, or wear a long sleeve cotton welders jacket to get the chips off the arms.


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## Maglin

I have a few nice insert RH tools. I have a TMX one from lathe inserts and a Sanvidick (sp) 3/4" tool holder. I really like using them in hardened steels when I'm taking over .010 DOC or .020" total diam. reduction. I find with less than .005" doc or .010" on a direct reading dial they will skip and rub. I went through about $40 worth or inserts before I said this is getting expensive and sharpened up some 1/2" HSS Cobalt roughing and finishing tool bits. Well with a edge sharp enough to cut me I can now take .0005" DOC and get a super nice finish on even 1015CR. Now I use HSS about 95% of the time. I still use carbide inserts for boring and internal threading mainly now. With the Carbide I usually increase my speed 3x that of HSS which is still slow. Chips will be coming off dark blue and will burn the heck out of you. They also might fly up on a rare occasion. I had one hit me in the side of the mouth. Took 4 weeks for it to heal and it hurt for about 2 weeks.

I always just wear some old blue jeans and cheap old white Tee shirts when I'm machining. I have done the accidental machining when I wasn't planning on it with a nice synthetic shirt that now has 2 noticeable holes in it.

I'm not a cheap skate and didn't want to learn how to grind HSS. Well I prefer it now. When I go to crazy on DOC or hit that really hard spot on MS and chip my tool it only takes a few minutes to grind it back to a sharp edge. I use two eight inch wheels on my grinder. Bolt aluminum oxide. One is a 60 grit wheel for roughing the cutter and the other is a 120 grit for finishing/dressing an quick touch ups. I also got a Diamond Tool holder (again didn't want to grind HSS) and actually really like it in aluminum. I find myself having to redress it to often in steel when using the square tool bit. With a round finishing tool bit the finish is outstanding and the edge really lasts a long time.

I would try first dressing your inserts with a diamond lap. Most carbide is pretty dull out of the box. Don't use coolant with carbide as it can shock it and cause it to fracture/crack. I have a hard time dressing inserts as they are so small. I do run a diamond over all my carbide tipped tooling and that really ups their cutting performance. Also adding a chip breaker to the carbide tipped stuff really helps with string control.

And for gloves I know I would leave them on after cleaning my chips so I just use pliers, small dust pan and broom, and my bare hands. I've seen what using gloves can do to you when running machines. It's not worth it IMO. That is my .02.


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## precisionworks

> And for gloves I know I would leave them on after cleaning my chips


Nitrile gloves rip right off when they catch anything (belt grinder mostly, wire wheel sometimes). They are the only gloves I ever wear in the shop but they are more like a second skin than a glove.



> I can now take .0005" DOC


My fine finisher is a Rani Tool AluPro DCGT-21.50.5 -RAL (.008" nose radius, high positive, polished rake face). Not hard to take .0002" DOC with that insert on the OD. For boring the AluPro CCGT-32.50.5-RAL (same nose radius but a larger insert) also allows skimming .0002" off the ID. Please don't think that the finish will be as nice as it would taking the full .008" (nose radius) DOC but it's always 20 Ra or so and near 10 Ra in aluminum.

Run the correct sfpm for the material & insert & take enough DOC so that the nose of the insert is fully engaged and the surface will be decent. If you need a killer finish off the tool, something 10 Ra or less, go to a wiper as long as the material is not heat sensitive (which leaves out SS and Ti).

Here's a plain jane CNMG-432 eBay insert, $3 each, taking .250" DOC in 1144 Stressproof at 379 sfpm. Peeling tan & dropping blue is as good as it gets 


Spindle is turning 1450 rpm but motion is stopped by the flash.


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## Maglin

Thanks for the heads up on the Nitrile gloves. I have several boxes of Black Nitrile glove that I wear when I'm working on cars or anything dirty really. I've known people that got wrapped up in machines because of gloves or loose clothing and the outcome is enough to really make me cautious.

I have some high rake aluminum inserts that do a fantastic job in aluminum but they are also very sharp. I should have said for me in steel I prefer HSS but I do use insert tooling for large DOC for making the various one piece items with a large OD and small OD on the same part. BTW I was not able to do a .250" DOC on my old lathe. It just didn't have enough power. I'm hoping my new one can handle that.

What is a wiper? I've not heard or seen one.

Bob how you liking your lathe now? You getting better surface finishes yet? What are you using for cutting oil? I was using just WD-40 but just picked up some Ri-li-on cutting oil. Haven't had a chance to try it yet but it's supposed to be a cutting & tapping fluid. I know a lot of people like Tap Magic Pro for tapping. Lot of variance on cutting fluid.


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## precisionworks

A good explanation about wipers from Kenna.


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## wquiles

Maglin said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the Nitrile gloves. I have several boxes of Black Nitrile glove that I wear when I'm working on cars or anything dirty really. I've known people that got wrapped up in machines because of gloves or loose clothing and the outcome is enough to really make me cautious.



Same here, I have always been wary about using "any" gloves while working on the lathe (I respect ALL machines, but more so the lathe!). So are we saying then that using of the thin Nitrile gloves around the lathe is "safe"?

Will


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## precisionworks

> are we saying then that using of the thin Nitrile gloves around the lathe is "safe"?


I never wear any gloves around the lathe or mill. Even the thin nitrile gloves can and will catch on a rotating shaft or part & pulll your hand into a place where it should not be. 



> (belt grinder mostly, wire wheel sometimes)


When working on greasy & dirty parts that are being wire brushed or belt ground I do wear them. Although both the abrasive belt and the wire wheel eat right through the glove it provides a small amount of protection. Both the belt & the wire wheel are rotating "downward" ... there is a huge difference between those machine & a lathe or mill.

Most work places will issue a written warning the first time a machinist is seen wearing gloves. If repeated the person is terminated.


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> I never wear any gloves around the lathe or mill. Even the thin nitrile gloves can and will catch on a rotating shaft or part & pulll your hand into a place where it should not be.


Ahh, that is what I though - thanks 

Too risky ...


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## BVH

I've been playing with trying to thread. I used some very "non-standard" (don't ask cuz I won't tell) methods before I read some how-to articles on the web. Thru some PM'ing, WillC found a big error in my setup. I can't use my crossfeed index mark (at 6:00 O'Clock) and kick my compound 29.5 degrees counter clock-wise because this Asian machine is set up different. I used this method and ended up with very unequal angled thread valley walls. It looked like a bunch of cones stacked together on their side. It was all right-shifted. I remember reading about this index issue now in another thread. WillQ's thread? So I used a protractor and established an index mark on the chuck side of the crosslide (9:00 O'Clock) and set the compound at 29.5 from this index. I'm just guessing at this point because I could not find the post.

The next threading operation resulted in valleys that were definitely more towards equal but still off a bunch. Since the threads were no good and I had not taken very much off, I decided to give the compound another 5 degrees, another wild guess. I played around with the crossfeed, compound and half nut to try to copy the engagement point and contact point and got close but had to unchuck the piece and line up a thread perfectly in the tool with everything set to the reference point. This system worked well for fooling around. I continued cutting until the flat area on the peaks was just about to get sharp and and both valley side angles looked very close to even, then tried a nut. It would go on only about 1/4 turn. I kept cutting a couple thousandths at a time and finally was able to get about half the nut on. Took a little more off and got a bit more nut on and then no matter how much I took, the nut would not go on any further. At this point the peaks are truly razors. Then it struck me...did I set the right pitch? I checked my nut and a 1/2" bolt and sure enough 1/2 13. Checked the thread on my work and...12 tpi. I rechecked my settings and I was correct on all of them. Then I noticed that the settings I was using on the chart were exactly the same for 11, 12,13 & 19 tpi. C3 and MI. (using the 48T on top and 24T into the gearbox) How can this be?? I ended up with 12 tpi - in the middle of 11 & 13. Am I reading the chart wrong and what does the darn "Z" mean??? There is no "Z" gear in the package and no "Z" on the gear indicator panels. It must have something to do with it.

The chart:









The 12 tpi thread. The Valley's look very close to even but notice the razors! If I had the right pitch, I would have stopped sooner and probably would not have the razors.






There's still a bit of tearing on the threads but I'm chalking this up to probably having damaged the insert with all my non-standard threading practices over the last couple of days.


I had a “no reverse” problem that I was trouble shooting with Matts' help. I know it worked when I first powered up the lathe but last week I moved the lever up and no joy. I was able to follow the reverse relay trigger circuit out to the microswitch activated by the F&R lever and back to the relay that is controlled by the gear cover safety switch. But I don't know the internals of the relays so I stopped there. Next day, I had reverse once in a while. Finally, I noticed that reverse would work after about 1 out of 20 times that I powered up the machine with my wall switch. All I had to do was flip the switch on and turn it off and it would work, then not work. The next day without having done anything, I had reverse whenever I wanted it. It's still working every time. I'm guessing a sticky KM2 reverse relay. Since I had the small casting off that covers the microswitches, and I had some small oil seepage from the gearbox, I decided to take the cover off and reseal everything. Once I cleaned all the shaft detent parts, the 4 shifter handles turned much nicer and with less effort. 3 of the 4 shifter shaft o-rings had been sliced during assembly. They probably just rammed them home. This work followed a headstock oil leak a few days earlier. It turned out to be leaking from the back of the lid, down the back of the elect box and onto the chip tray. So that box has been cleaned out. All 4 of the allen set screws that secure the keys to their shafts were very loose, like 1.5 to 2 turns loose. Glad I had the leak so I could find this out and take care of it. I've actually had a lot of fun doing the work and I got to see how the exterior shifting mechanisms relate to the internals of the boxes. I used to occasion to make some exterior marks on the gear indicator panels that more closely reflect the point of correct gear engagement. Some of the detents are off enough that the next gear engagement is just about started and some not-so-nice noises are audible.

I was actually able to make a part that I needed for my work light conversion. I have about 25 Superbright LEDs” brand 120V, 7Watt, 4-Cree G10 based lamps that produce about 330 Lumens of 6000K light in the master bath. I love them. Because they are almost as long as the work light shell, I needed a very thin nut that goes on the inside to hold the shell onto the gooseneck. So I faced down a spare M10 1.25 nut I had and it actually worked. Finally! I made something that turned out right and useful. The conversion work ain’t pretty on the inside, but it’s stealth on the outside.


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## darkzero

Z represents the gear you would use for the pitches listed in that column. With the 24 on bottom you have now you are getting 12 tpi. If you swap out the 24 for a 22 then you would get 11 tpi. So for 13 tpi you would have to use the 26 gear on the bottom.


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## BVH

Yep, that is what I thought was going to happen - It was going to be painfully obvious what I missed. It's very clear now. Thanks Will. I was seeing the gear teeth ID number as tpi. Thanks for the threading dial info, too. I'll make that adjustment.


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## gadget_lover

I was wondering about that 'Z1' in the lower part of the chart. It looks like the threads on the bottom part of the chart use a 24T gear for the top gear and a 38,44,48, 52 tooth gear for the bottom one. It would have been more obvious if they had put a 'z1' on the chart.

Daniel


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## darkzero

gadget_lover said:


> I was wondering about that 'Z1' in the lower part of the chart. It looks like the threads on the bottom part of the chart use a 24T gear for the top gear and a 38,44,48, 52 tooth gear for the bottom one. It would have been more obvious if they had put a 'z1' on the chart.
> 
> Daniel



I was also curious about the Z1 when Bob pointed it out. We were talking about the chart & it turns out my chart is very different from Bob's. Mine doesn't have Z1 anywhere on it. I wonder what is the reason for it?


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## Maglin

For threading you don't have to use the compound. You can set your tool with your thread gauge fish tail and use the crossfeed and then you don't have to worry about doing trig for your depth of thread. A lot of these Chinese machines have the compound angle scale backwards. I had to use 59.5* on the scale for 29.5*, and even that isn't accurate really but all you are doing is trying to preform the majority of the cut on one side of the tool to reduce the cutting forces to attain a better looking thread. Use a sine bar or protractor to set your compound accurately for say cutting a tapper with it. I would say that your lathe can handle cutting a thread using the crossfeed.

Edit: I meant to say crossfeed not compound. Fixed.


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## gadget_lover

When you set the compound to 29.5 degrees, you are setting it so that the inwards movement of the tool is parallel to the right hand edge of the tool. If the tool is exactly 90 degrees from the work, you should be able to see that the side of the compound is almost exactly parallel to the side of the tool ( 1/2 of 1 degree off)

The idea is for the LEFT side of the tool and the TIP to do all the cutting with almost no involvement from the right hand side.

Dan


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## precisionworks

Actually, any number from 28° to 29.5° works OK, no need to hit 29°, 30 seconds, 0 minutes. See this article from Kenna.


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## BVH

Yippie! My first successful thread. 3/4 x 10. I took WillC's advice and picked up some scrap aluminum to learn on. I found some 3/4 OD tubing for $3.00 a pound. I don't remember if that's a decent price but I didn't really care when I was at the metal yard since I needed very little. I found a good graphic with text that showed and told me how far I needed to move the compound for proper thread depth. If I understand it correctly, for a 75% thread, subtrack .250 from the material diameter and divide by 10 so I needed a theoretical .075 on the compound dial. My first attempt did not work because I started with the material at the full .751" cleaned up to .748". I bought a nut and bolt and measured the bolt at the threads as .740. So my next attempt, I started with the material at .740. At .065 on the compound and every .002 thereafter, I stopped and tried to thread the nut. Finally, at .075 on the compound dial, I could get almost 1 turn. I took about .0005 on the dial cuts thereafter. I was surprised at how much difference each .0005 movement made. At .0785, the nut would go on fully but it was very snug, like aircraft hardware. Finally at .0795, the nut went on very nicely with my fingers and with practically no wobble when I tried to wiggle it.











I used a very small protractor to establish what I believe to be 29.5 degrees of the compound to the spindle axis. I could be off a little, I don't know but the thread valleys look very equal to my eye.

Is it normal to have to shave standard size metal bar to something less than original OD for threading?


----------



## precisionworks

Standard tolerance is .747" minimum & .750" maximum.

The threads look great


----------



## darkzero

precisionworks said:


> Standard tolerance is .747" minimum & .750" maximum.
> 
> The threads look great



+1

Barry, I'm curious, how is that determined? MH states .750" max to .737" min for a class 3A 3/4-10 thread & .748" to .735" for class 2. I was taught to always take .005" off the diameter which I always do when I'm making something that might be mated to other parts (like flashlight heads & tails). But when I make things where they won't be fitted to other parts (other than it's own) I just use max diameter & shoot for a class 3 fit.

My instructor always told me that the nuts & bolts you find in hardware stores are "class 1" at best. :laughing:


----------



## darkzero

BVH said:


> I used a very small protractor to establish what I believe to be 29.5 degrees of the compound to the spindle axis. I could be off a little, I don't know but the thread valleys look very equal to my eye.



It's not easy to split a degree to accurately & consistently set on the compound especially if you're using a cheap protractor like I am.  

It's not the compound angle that affects the angle of the thread, it's the alignment of the cutting tip, that's what a fishtail is used for. That's why as Barry stated you don't have to be spot on at 29.5.


Bob, shoot me your email address & I'll send you my little program.


----------



## BVH

Thanks, guys! Will, looks like a great program! PM sent. I forgot to ask - for the first few passes, I'd crank in .005 indicated. As more of the tip is into the work, I'd reduce it to .004, 003 etc. Does the MH have a guide for this?


----------



## gadget_lover

There is a guide somewhere for how much feed to use with each pass. I looked it up and it comes out to...
( As described in http://www.kennametal.com/images/pd..._tips/TechTip_140_CorrectPasses_Threading.pdf ) 

Initial DOC * square root of the pass number where the initial DOC is .25 of the thread depth.


You can get the correct thread depth with 

http://www.americanmachinist.com/Calculators/ThreadCutting.aspx


----------



## precisionworks

> how is that determined?


Rather poorly in my illustration 

Instead of doing the correct thing & looking it up in MH (which is three feet away) I googled a few searches & came up with that number ... which looked OK but obviously is not.

Go with the MH number for each class of fit & you'll be on the money.


----------



## BVH

Here's another basic setup question. If I want to work on something that is long enough to need support from the dead center that came with the machine, it seems as though I will have a problem doing it. With the tailstock casting base about 3/16" from touching the DRO scale and the tailstock cranked all the way out to the max of 4" and the compound is at only 30 degrees, the tip of the center is fully 1" behind the cutting tool (tool is perpendicular to the work). The DRO scale is 1 1/8" wide so if it was not there, it would seem to work ok, but even at that, the tailstock would need to be out to its' max to engage the work and I could not turn the compound to 45 degrees, let alone 0. Are there longer dead centers? Is it normal to have to crank the tailstock all the way out to support something? I don't have my live center. I assume it's longer and I might not have the issue. With the tailstock fully extended, my drill chuck extends a bit over an inch beyond the tool but I have practically no drilling depth capacity left.

I'm remember now seeing a lot of tailstocks where the spindle part of the stock extends well beyond the base casting, giving a lot more capacity.


----------



## darkzero

You can use a MT extension.

Can't see it but I'm using a Jacobs MT3 to MT3 extension here.


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## BVH

Ah! I was afraid I was missing something simple. Got to go shop, now. Thanks, Will.


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## precisionworks

> to need support from the dead center


Dead centers are used only in the headstock taper when turning between centers - live centers are always used in the tailstock. That was not the case 200 years ago when lathe speeds were slower and 100 rpm was warp speed.


----------



## BVH

precisionworks said:


> That was not the case 200 years ago when lathe speeds were slower and 100 rpm was warp speed.



Well, I'm not quite that old but it's taking me a little time and a ton of questions to catch up.


----------



## Davo J

BVH said:


> Here's another basic setup question. If I want to work on something that is long enough to need support from the dead center that came with the machine, it seems as though I will have a problem doing it. With the tailstock casting base about 3/16" from touching the DRO scale and the tailstock cranked all the way out to the max of 4" and the compound is at only 30 degrees, the tip of the center is fully 1" behind the cutting tool (tool is perpendicular to the work). The DRO scale is 1 1/8" wide so if it was not there, it would seem to work ok, but even at that, the tailstock would need to be out to its' max to engage the work and I could not turn the compound to 45 degrees, let alone 0. Are there longer dead centers? Is it normal to have to crank the tailstock all the way out to support something? I don't have my live center. I assume it's longer and I might not have the issue. With the tailstock fully extended, my drill chuck extends a bit over an inch beyond the tool but I have practically no drilling depth capacity left.
> 
> I'm remember now seeing a lot of tailstocks where the spindle part of the stock extends well beyond the base casting, giving a lot more capacity.



I posted about this a while back somewhere, about the 40 inch lathes having a a tail stock that over hangs the cross slide, but the 36 inch lathes missing out. You can also turn your tool post around and use a tool on the other side.

Dave


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## precisionworks

The easiest solution is to use a Morse Taper Extension Socket. ICS makes a 3-3 socket that's 9" long: http://www.icscuttingtools.com/catalog/page_093.pdf

The Michigan Drill 3-3 is 8.5" long: http://www.michigandrill.com/catalog/view-mdc/063.pdf

The Jacobs version is also 8.5" long: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/JACOBS-Extension-Socket-3L926?Pid=search

It's important to remember that part of the overall length goes into your tailstock & part is taken up by the tool, but you'll still pick up a couple of inches. Then use an extended point live center if you need more reach:


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## BVH

I ordered a Collis 8.5" 3-3, hardened and ground extension on Tuesday. I hope it's a quality brand. Never thought about turning the post 180! It amazes me the simple solutions that I don't see. I would guess that as with any type of extension/adding joints, that additional flex/movement is introduced so accuracy might suffer?


----------



## precisionworks

> ordered a Collis 8.5" 3-3, hardened and ground extension


Collis is as good as you can buy. The accuracy on a ground extension is guaranteed to be within .002" so it should not cause a problem.

Collis does offer three different lengths. The short extension is 8.5" (60633), medium is 11.25" (60733) and long is 14" (60833). If the short extension doesn't quite reach you may want to exchange it for the medium.

Collis extension MT sockets.


----------



## Davo J

If your working down that end, you can also turn your compound around so the handle is on the left and wind it to the end of it travel to give a bit more. 
Forest (a life time machine re-builder and scraper) on another forum recommended making a new quill before using an extension when this question was asked over their. This is because it would be more rigid and accurate for machining between centres. I find I get by without using a extension and have had mine for 7-8 years.
Making a longer quill would be a good project down the track, you wouldn't need any engraved marks for between centre work.

Dave


----------



## precisionworks

> making a new quill before using an extension


That's a pretty serious machining project. The OD would need to be almost size-on-size for the TS bore, the bottom would have a slot & key that also fit the keyway with no play, the Morse taper would have to be machined by drilling/taper boring/reaming with a MT reamer plus the thrust end would have to be machined. I'd guess 16 hours to get one that would work correctly.



> it would be more rigid and accurate


It probably would be as a ground extension can be off by as much as .002" (although I'd expect Collis to be half of that or less).



> for machining between centres.


The only shops I see today that don't use a chuck & machine between centers are grinding shops. An accurate center hole in each end assures that the ground surfaces will all be perfectly concentric to the center line of the part.


----------



## BVH

I can tell already, having the lathe is gonna be very useful and fun. I ordered a simple magnetic load bicycle training stand for my wife. It arrived today and wouldn't you know it, the stand axle mounting cup on the right side works great but the left one is tapered internally for their supplied quick release skewer and won't fit over the left axle nut. Well, my wifes' bike is an old cheapy Schwinn without quick release axles. How's this for hard to break habits. The first think I think of is to go to my cut down shank large drill bits to see if I need to drill it out to 9/16 or 5/8. I actually get the bits out before I suddenly think....Geeze, I got a lathe sitting over there dummy. So I chucked the cup up and removed the taper and bored to fit the nut snuggly. My second actual work product! My first one was in conjunction with getting an old military handheld spot light up and running. I need to do some beamshots before posting.


----------



## wquiles

I have said it before myself - it is GREAT to have a lathe and a mill. You can "modify" or make new pieces/parts the way they should have been in the first place 

Will


----------



## precisionworks

> it is GREAT to have a lathe and a mill. You can "modify" or make new pieces/parts the way they should have been in the first place


+1

The two other "tools" that are really useful are a macro lens & decent editing software, especially if you do smaller work. It is especially hard to get decent trit photos if the image has to be cropped. FWIW the two slots below are 2x12mm:













> I need to do some beamshots before posting.


Those would be awesome


----------



## georges80

Yeah, tools are great 

I only have a cheap 10x7 and I "justified" it originally for playing with some lights and heatsinks etc. I've never got into the light stuff like most of you folk, since I'm happy enough to play with the drivers.

But the lathe has come in handy more than a few times to modify/fix stuff over the years. One of the first projects was to replace bushings on the hinge pins of my old 4wd. Over many years of rough corrugated (washboards in the US) dirt roads the original bushings had worn and worn. Trying to close the doors would have the door 'moving' on the hinge to click into the latch. I could physically lift the door and see the play in the hinges/bushings.

Tried to find off the shelf bushings but of course they didn't exist and spares would involve complete new hinges - since the pins were 'rivets'.

With the lathe I made my own bushings and used nylocs on the bolts to replace the 'rivets'. No more slop and easily repairable in the future.

Drilled bushing rod.






Making the flange






Ensuring the new bushing fits nicely over the bolt






Final result looks like the following. Old bushing on the left:






One day I'll buy a mill....

cheers,
george.


----------



## precisionworks

Good to see you here, George. Everyone tells me that you are "the man" for custom drivers 



> One day I'll buy a mill....


A lathe without a mill is like a peanut butter & jelly sandwich ... with out the jelly.


----------



## BVH

precisionworks said:


> A lathe without a mill is like a peanut butter & jelly sandwich ... with out the jelly.



Even with my little experience, I've had many a time when I could have used a mill. Probably more so than a lathe. Hopefully, within a year, I may pick one up. One machine at a time.


----------



## StrikerDown

Barry, I am missing the bread for my PBJ sandwich... A surface grinder!:devil:  don't tell the wife!


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## KC2IXE

StrikerDown said:


> Barry, I am missing the bread for my PBJ sandwich... A surface grinder!:devil:  don't tell the wife!


Bought one of those Summer 2010 - still have not finished hooking it up (yeah, I Know) - I rebuilt it, but have never used it

As for lathes - it's funny how I bought my first lathe all those years ago. I had purchased an old Buffalo drill press, and it was missing the handle to raise/lower the table (there was a mis-sized bolt in it's place). I had always had access to a lathe at my various jobs, but at that point, I had moved on to working at companies that no longer made things, but did move a lot of numbers around

Went out, bought a little 6" Atlas, and made the missing part

BTW, that OLD Buffalo (NOT Buffalo forge - the original brand) drill press is at a friends shop as a gift, and is making a living commercially again - my only regret was not pulling my Abrechet chuck off of it, and mounting my good quality clone in it's place, but really, not that much of a regret. The clone works well, and the guy I gave the drill press to has only been my best friend for what, 35+ years, and is the godfather to both my kids, as I am to his eldest (some things are better than money)


----------



## BVH

KC2IXE said:


> ......my only regret was not pulling my Abrechet chuck off of it, and mounting my good quality clone in it's place, but really, not that much of a regret.



I now know what all the fuss is about with Albrecht drill chucks. I picked one up with integral 3MT shank a few weeks ago and what a thing of beauty and the feel of its' silky smooth movement is fantastic!


----------



## BVH

Here's a pic of my 1st useful part from the lathe
















How does one end up with no nub after parting off? I didn't want to chuck it up by the thin walled shell to face it off.

Read the story behind it here

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...I-Communicator-123-Watt&p=3829593#post3829593


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## wquiles

Great job on your first part 



BVH said:


> How does one end up with no nub after parting off? I didn't want to chuck it up by the thin walled shell to face it off.


You can simply carefully sand the nub, but that is where a collet holder or a 6-jaw comes in really handy. 

When you say "thin walled" - how thin was the wall? I am working on some new parts for my next MagnetoDrive prototype and the "pill" I am using is 1.026" OD with 0.010" thin walls:


----------



## BVH

Well, mine are thick-walled compared to yours - about .028. But I didn't want to risk any deformation because the bulb base twisted in with a lot of finger force - just exactly what I wanted. I thought that any type of clamping force with the chuck would probably deform it enough to mess me up. I ended up using my trusty points file to take it almost down to nothing.


----------



## precisionworks

> How does one end up with no nub after parting off?


It looks like you're using a GTN (Neutral) tool, which is flat across the face & leaves a nub. Switch to a GTL (Left) which has a tip that angles to the left & leaves almost no nub.


----------



## BVH

Barry, you're exactly right - my inserts are neutral. My brain is asking me that if my finished part is on the right end of the original shaft, wouldn't the GTR be used such that the deeper cut would be on the finished part(right) side and end up smaller than on the left?


----------



## wquiles

BVH said:


> Well, mine are thick-walled compared to yours - about .028"



Yup, a wall thickness of 0.028" is quite strong. This is my first time experimenting with a wall thicknes of 0.010", but this pill is going to be completely enclosed in a much thicker host, so the only forces the pill will see are lengthwise, so even 0.010" is plenty strong.

Will


----------



## precisionworks

> if my finished part is on the right end of the original shaft, wouldn't the GTR be used such that the deeper cut would be on the finished part(right) side and end up smaller than on the left?


My bad, I thought the finished part was on the left. Use a GTR for what you want to do.


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## BVH

I just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something. Thanks!


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## StrikerDown

wquiles said:


> Great job on your first part
> 
> 
> You can simply carefully sand the nub, but that is where a collet holder or a 6-jaw comes in really handy.
> 
> When you say "thin walled" - how thin was the wall? I am working on some new parts for my next MagnetoDrive prototype and the "pill" I am using is 1.026" OD with 0.010" thin walls:



Hey Will,

Instead of turning them out one at a time on your lathe there are faster and cheaper ways to make soda pop cans! :nana:

Nice work though! :naughty:


----------



## wquiles

StrikerDown said:


> Hey Will,
> 
> Instead of turning them out one at a time on your lathe there are faster and cheaper ways to make soda pop cans! :nana:
> 
> Nice work though! :naughty:



Thicker than soda pop cans, but yes, fairly thin. If you press hard between your thumb and index finger, you "can" get the walls to flex a little 

Will


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## gadget_lover

The wall thickness that you can use varies with the material. I found a very thin bezel of 6061 (aluminum) would dent when I dropped the little light, but the same design in 2011 was fine. I think it was around .015 thick.

Dan


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## precisionworks

When I bore the E-series lights the thickness at the front O-ring groove ends up at .012" (the remainder of the body is substantially thicker). I've carried my bored E2L for months without trying to baby it & that thickness seems plenty strong enough. Not sure what alloy SF uses but perhaps it's not 6061, with 7075 being a likely candidate.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> When I bore the E-series lights the thickness at the front O-ring groove ends up at .012" (the remainder of the body is substantially thicker). I've carried my bored E2L for months without trying to baby it & that thickness seems plenty strong enough. Not sure what alloy SF uses but perhaps it's not 6061, with 7075 being a likely candidate.



If *BVH* does not mind this slight hi-jack of his thread, what would be a good target wall thickness behind the 0-ring groove that would be very strong, without being overly thick? For example, I feel 0.012-0.015" to be a tad thin for a host that would get abused/dropped/etc, but of course as you make this thicker, the weight goes up as well. Is 0.020" to 0.025" a good "target"? What do you guys think?

Will


----------



## BVH

"If it fits, it ships", says the Post Office. If it's machining related, it belongs, says I.


----------



## gadget_lover

The thickness in my designs have depended on the metal used and the stresses to which it will be subjected. In many cases, the forces acting on a part are pretty minimal or are only a few directions.

An o-ring groove will almost by definition have some protection from whatever goes over the o-ring. For instance, the tail cap on my light covers the o-ring and protects it from direct side impact. The forces it is exposed to are 
1) Tension from the spring in the tail cap against the battery
2) Torsion from screwing on the tail cap
3) Compression when I drop the light
4) Tangential when I whack the tail cap against something.

None of those are crushing forces from the side. 

I'm probably wrong, but a .015 thick ring with a 1 inch diameter seems like a pretty healthy cross section for forces transmitted along the length such as dropping it.

As a side note, parts that will sustain direct impact (bezels and tailcaps) need to be thicker for exactly the same reasons. 

Daniel


----------



## wquiles

Thanks Daniel - that is a great data point to have. I also talked to Barry today and he shared with me that the larger/stronger Surefire hosts (typically overbuilt) have a wall thickness behind the O-ring of 0.042" - which is quite substantial. For my own MagnetoDrive prototype #2 that I am designing/building, I will be using about 0.025" in the tailcap and about 0.025" at the bezel side for their respective O-ring grooves (I am using 6061, by the way).

Will


----------



## Anglepoise

I think 0.020" to 0.025" is a good "target"


----------



## precisionworks

Before I started boring E-series lights my concern was O-ring wall thickness (they measure .752"-.753" compared to a standard SF at .775" OD). A number of 18650 tubes were measured and two showed .012" wall thickness & I've never heard of one of those failing. An E-series tube with a wall of .011"-.012" will just barely take an AW 2900/3100 mAh cell and seems more than strong enough.

A wild guess is that .005" might be too thin


----------



## wquiles

Thank you guys. Although I have modified many lights, and done many projects, the MagnetoDrive is my first ever, from the ground up, complete light where every single part I designed and build on my own, so your help/advice on this is very much appreciated 

Will


----------



## BVH

Had tons of fun today. I have 3 - 300 Watt "Locator" Helicopter HID lights. The original military spec bulb is no longer made and there are no spare original bulbs left that I and others have been able to find. A while ago, Modamag kindly made me 3 sets of bulb adapters that retrofit the no longer made, but obtainable GE Marc300 EZS bulb into my lights. They are electrically and physically the same quarts envelope but are based differently. I need only 3 sets of adapters but I figured making another set would give me some practice and a set of adapters for someone who may need one someday. I took my time to be sure all the finished tolerances gave me the slight finger-press fit on the Delrin piece and approximately .002 - .003" clearances between both bulb base diameters and their adapter bores. I gave Modamag looser tolerances (about 006") because he didn't have the light in his position to work with when machining my parts and was going off my measurements (before I had all the mics, telescoping gauges etc, that I now have). I wanted tighter fits with this set to more precisely position the arc in the focal point of the reflector. Everything came out just right and I didn't have to do any work over again because of a mistake. By the way, if anyone knows someone who wants to buy one of these powerhouse lights, I'm selling one in CPF BST. (a shamless plug)

The two brass pieces













Exploded view of old bulb and adapters on top, new bulb and adapters, including white Delrin piece on bottom







Assembled view of old and new


----------



## precisionworks

Those look great 

My most used measuring tools are the Starrett ID mics (700A & 700B). Cost is about 1% of a triple-contact bore gage and accuracy is good at +/- .0001".


----------



## gadget_lover

They look real good. It's amazing how easy it is to turn out a quick piece. On the other, the devil is often in the details. Little things like loose fit VS press. 

Dan


----------



## BVH

On some of my earlier practice pieces, a part went from light press fit to way too loose in the blink of an eye! I'm really enjoying the DROs. It's so easy to get back to the precise starting point on a boring job and any job for that matter. Because I had to buy a replacement X scale, I used the occasion to buy the .0001 resolution unit and I really enjoy being able to see movements by .0001" increments when coming down to the last couple of thousandths. Sometimes I'll take two .0005 cuts instead of one, 001 cut just because I have not got to the point of being confident that I won't go too far. One thing I do as pointed out many times here in the machining forum, is to sketch out the part and all its' intended dimensions before I do anything else. Then I double check them. What was fun about this set of adapters is that the Locator has a focusing ring that pushes or pulls the rear adapter to optimize focus. In the stock light, there was about 1/4 turn of movement left in the threads for the sharpest focus. It has about 4 turns total movement. So I used the occasion to lengthen the adapter so that the focusing knob ended up in about its' middle point instead of near its' limit. Didn't really need it but was fun to customize it.


----------



## precisionworks

On both OD turning & ID boring it never hurts to take one or two spring passes where the tool is not moved at all. Even with the shortest & most rigid possible set up there's often .0001" or more of spring back. Doesn't sound like a lot but .0001" on the radius is .0002" on the diameter.


----------



## BVH

precisionworks said:


> On both OD turning & ID boring it never hurts to take one or two spring passes where the tool is not moved at all. Even with the shortest & most rigid possible set up there's often .0001" or more of spring back. Doesn't sound like a lot but .0001" on the radius is .0002" on the diameter.



Barry, I'm really glad you mentioned this, again! I had forgotten about this option.


----------



## BVH

My first couple projects for someone other than me.

A Mag D heatsink













A combination bearing cup/bushing to align, support and retain a 56 Chevy tilt steering column steering shaft and shifting sleeve within the column shell. Steering shaft rides in bearing ID, 1" extension is the bushing for the end of the shifting sleeve rotation and larger OD presses into outer column tube to align everything.
















At friends request, the bearing fit is what I call a tremendous finger power press-fit. I walk it in alternating my strongest finger and thumb squeeze one side then the other until it is just about seated then it glides home the last 1/16". Takes a light impact with a deep 13/16" socket falling from about 1" onto a 3/4" deep socket resting on the inner race to remove it.

Barry, thanks again for reminding me of the "spring pass". It was the perfect solution to go from "No-Go" to "Go" for the bearing fit.


----------



## BVH

Not sure how much exposure I got in another section to a post offering some free, limited time and complexity services.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ot-Too-Complex-Projects&p=3866884#post3866884


----------



## BVH

I'm attempting to make a spyder for my lathe. As I'm boring the sleeve that will slide over the spindle and lock with setscrews, it's obviously getting warm and so is the spindle with normal machine running. I stopped with about .010 to go thinking that the two parts should cool down to room temp for the final sizing. While this won't be a press fit, I'd like it to be an almost snug slide-on fit, maybe .001 - .002 clearance. Is the heating issue and possible expansion/contraction error something I should be concerned with? And if so, how to you all handle it on a day-to-day basis with close tolerance work?


----------



## precisionworks

Coolant is your friend. Flood, mist MQL, even a mister bottle filled with water soluble coolant - all are a great help.

Also check feed & speed. When the insert is in the sweet spot it pulls a good sized chip that carries away most of the heat of shearing. Too little DOC and not enough feed can both cause rubbing that leaves lots of heat in the part. For the final finishing cut(s) a free cutting insert with a small nose radius does a nice job. 

Even with the correct feed + speed + DOC + proper insert, some type of lubricant/coolant will really help.


----------



## StrikerDown

Nice work. Please post pics when you get the spider project finished, Very Interested!


----------



## BVH

Sleeve made but I still don't have a drillpress or a mill yet so no way to accurately drill the 8 set screw holes. Well, I guess I could Mickey-Fix it but it will be nice to have a project for the new mill.


----------



## wquiles

BVH said:


> Sleeve made but I still don't have a drillpress or a mill yet so no way to accurately drill the 8 set screw holes.



Do you have pictures of your part where you need the holes drilled?


----------



## BVH

A member asked me to make a AAA to AA battery adapter so he can use a AAA in his AA light. Copper contact presses into Delrin front hole and internal counter bores with light hammer tap with punch. Cell pushes into Delrin with light finger pressure and shakes out nicely. I was presented with some fancier options but I opted for a simple idea. I hope thermal expansion doesn’t throw a monkey wrench into the blades. OD is exactly the same as my 1500 cycle Eneloops. Length is about .001 - .002 longer.


----------



## pc_light

BVH said:


> A member asked me to make a AAA to AA battery adapter so he can use a AAA in his AA light. Copper contact presses into Delrin front hole and internal counter bores with light hammer tap with punch. Cell pushes into Delrin with light finger pressure and shakes out nicely. I was presented with some fancier options but I opted for a simple idea. I hope thermal expansion doesn’t throw a monkey wrench into the blades. OD is exactly the same as my 1500 cycle Eneloops. Length is about .001 - .002 longer.



Sweet! 

Nice novelty item, with low cost and ready availability of AA cells will be limited to serving in a pinch or to reduce weight or as a dummy cell perhaps. 

Hopefully it was fun practice for the new lathe.

In any event nice work.


----------



## BVH

Since I don't have a mill or drill press yet, I sent my Spyder off to Will Q for semetrical drilling and taping. Works perfectly! Thanks, Will.


----------



## wquiles

Glad it worked out well!

Here a quick photo when it was being drill/tapped:


----------



## Eneloops

That AAA to AA battery adapter is really nice. I really like how it looks like a black battery. Are you selling these?


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## BVH

No, I made this by request from another member as part of my "free machine work" thread a while ago. It was fun to make and does look nice.


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## BVH

I'm a little perplexed. Look at these pics of an alum and steel shaft I attempted to turn today. I do not remember finishes so krappy looking before from this machine and I'm not doing anything different than I always do. The aluminum one actually looks scalloped and like a barber pole, especially when turning it in my hand. Steel has never finished up like a mirror but not like what the pic shows. 






History:

Last week, I used the Internal jaws in my 3-Jaw for the first time. I made sure to put them in the correct slots - 1-3. During the last moments of machining the chuck adapter boss with the internals, I thought I heard an intermittent vibration but could not find anything. I changed the jaws back at the end of the job and did not turn anything until today. I attempted to turn down the alum shaft at .008" per revolution feed speed. What I saw was lots worse than what you see in the pic. I turned the feed down to .002" per rev and took a .006 DOC and saw what the pic shows. The work was extended only 2" from the chuck. The vibration noise was occurring during the cut. Further investigation lead me to the Power Twist belts. I changed back to the OEM belts and I believe the noise is completely gone or at least 90% of it is. I made sure my cutting tool height is perfect. I used a brand new insert edge (both on the steel and alum cuts) I dial indicated my 1.5" linear shaft and get only .0007" TIR. I can get about .0005" dial indicator movement when I grab the chuck and try to move it back and forth, a crude check of the spindle bearings. Despite all this, I got the cuts you see. With a shaft indicated TIR of .0007", is it possible that I got the jaws in wrong? That's really the only thing that has changed since before, when I got good finishes - and there aren't very many coincidences in life. If not the jaws, then any ideas?


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## BVH

Will and Will....When you have a chance, will you quantify the amount or headstock backlash your machine has in the B2, 330 RPM gearbox settings. I took my gear cover off the grabbed the headstock pulley and turned it counter-clockwise until all slop was gone. Then I made a mark on the pulley rim opposite the left mounting screw holding on the gear cover safety micro switch. Then I turned the pulley clockwise until the chuck begins to move. The mark traveled just beyond the halfway point between the left and right microswitch mounting screws - or about 9/16". It seems like a lot of slop to me.


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## BVH

Update: The vibration noise seems to be gone. I rechecked the chuck jaws and according to my originally made marks, they are installed correctly. There is only one jaw slot that has a factory ID stamp on it and it looks like it is in position 1 (according to my own marks) and it looks like either two "1"s or possibly a "U" with the radius at the bottom barely visible. The fact that its a factory stamping and it appears to be in position one seems to confirm that it is set up correctly. I re-checked tool height once again and it was a tiny bit high so I lowered it. I changed the insert to a new one. I then discovered that while my compound was zero'd perfect, the Dorian was probably a full 3 or 4 degrees beyond square. The hold down nut was tight and I've never hit anything so I have no idea how it moved. I squared it up with the face of the chuck. Results...I think it's back or near back to the finishes it has always produced on Aluminum but steel still doesn't look like I think it used to. Also, as I run the lathe with the feedbox in neutral, not cutting anything, there is a light harmonics noise that I don't ever remember hearing. I have a suspicion that may be causing the patterns on the finishes. But at this point, I am so over loaded with thoughts that I may be imagining problems that don't exist...


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## wquiles

If you put back the power-twist belts, is the harmonic noise still there?

I ran my lathe with and without the power-twist belts, and prefer the power-twist belts as it felt/sounded a little smoother to me.

Will


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## darkzero

Strange that it went away & good but too bad you did not figure out what it was. 

Looking at the piece of aluminum, IMO it looks like cutter chatter. But not chatter as with overhang, that looks different. To me it looks as if the gibs on the cross slide or compound slide or even the carriage were way too loose. One of the Leblond lathes I used in shop class used to do this & everyone hated using it. One day I decided to figure out why & it was just the cross slide gib beimng way too loose.

Or it's possible if the tool post was loose or the chuck not tightened down. I know it sounds stupid but cutting with the tool holder on the tool post not locked down all the way can give results like that too. Ask me how I know. 

But none of what you mentioned or loose gibs seems logical since you say it has mysteriously went away. I doubt it was the belts. 

I'm using the Fenner belts too but with both my 8x14 & 12x36, they ran quieter with the standard V-belts as long as the V-belts did not have lumps in it or developed "memory" from sitting too long. Cheap V-belts tend to do this. On my bandsaw & air compressor I can't tell any difference in noise or performance with the Fenner belts. On the 8x14 I could not tell a difference in performance, I used it for convienece. With the 12x36 I can see a difference in finish with the Fenner belts when turning aluminum. If I run V-belts fairly snug I can see a very slight swirling effect when facing at high speeds. With the Fenner belts I don't see this, they really do absorb vibrations, & I would only see it turning softer metals. I have no idea what it's from, maybe the single phase motor? I honestly think quality V-belts will perform great, they last much longer, & they're inexpensive. But the Fenner belts will not develop "memory" as easy as standard v-belts if left sitting too long unused & their convienent especially if many of your machines all use the same belt type.


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## BVH

Well decided to get to it with my harmonics issue. I took the headstock lid off to visually check things out and all looks as it did when I popped it off just after receival to fix the oil leak. I took the opportunity to shift everything into neutral so nothing but the input shaft was going to turn when powered up. Then made a note where to shift to add just the shifting gears shaft so I could progressively eliminate portions of the headstock. The mainshaft itself felt very solid and it was quiet. It took effort to begin to turn it but then once turning, is seemed very smooth and quiet. I assume I was overcoming the bearing preload. Put the lid back on and fired it up. Here comes the noise. So it's either the motor or the input shaft bearings. Using my Large, Snap-On stethoscope, (large screwdriver) I think I hear the noise from the motor. When the belts were off, I spun it by hand and it sounds a little raspy. So a call to Matt to find out any tips he might have on the noise and how best to take apart the motor. At first, it seemed I would only have to remove the motor front cover (after removing the pulley) and pull the armature out but unfortunately, this motor is a little different in that the flyweights and contact plate are in front so no way to pull the cover with attached wires. So off comes the splash guard and I crawl behind to take the rear cover off. Man it's tight quarters!! I pull out the assembly and take it over to the bench. The front bearing sounds and feels fine. The back one doesn't sound as good but not really that bad. I got them both pulled off and am going to get some replacements after lunch. 6205 in front and 6204 in back, with rubber seals. They're not max-fill and none of the bearing houses have max fill in-stock so I'll just get the same thing. Update later today once it's back together. At least this way, if it's not the motor, then there's something going on with the input shaft bearings.


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## BVH

Disappointingly, it was not the old motor bearings. Fired it up and within about 45 seconds, the 3 pulses per second harmonic noise re-appeared. Well at least I know I have $30.00 worth of USA made bearings in the motor now and they should be good for my lifetime! And it was a nice drive. Looks like next weeks project will be to remove the input shaft and swap out those bearings. If that does not get rid of the noise then, well, I don't know what's next. Logic says there is nothing else short of an actual vibration between parts but I have gone over every nut and bolt I have access to finding nothing loose.

Good news for those who have easy backside access, it's not much more than an hour or hour and a half job.


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## precisionworks

All Asian lathes including my heavy one use straight cut gears. At higher speeds they are slightly more noisy than the Hammers of Hell. Contrast that to a Monarch or American Pacemaker with helical cut gears - those are quiet as a breeze. The noise is caused by the gear contact angle & that same gear contact may be transmitting vibration to the chuck. If bearing replacement doesn't help you may want to pull all the headstock gearing & look at each individual gear for roughness. I'm guessing that one of the main gears was cut after a Saki lunch on Friday, just prior to quitting time.


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## BVH

I should have known. The two 3mt dead centers that came with my lathe have tips that are anything but sharp and symmetrical. How about blunt and bent. I wanted to check my tailstock to headstock center alignment so ordered two carbid tipped, $20.00 DC's from Travers hoping the tips would be pinpoint sharp for alignment check but alas, they are no better than my originals. They turned out to be Phase II's. To the naked eye, they are reasonable and for use as a DC, they are OK but under a 10x's or 20'x magnifying glass, they are useless for alignment purposes. Are the tips high-dollar DC's any better and/or what do others use for this alignment procedure?


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## gadget_lover

It is my understanding that the proper use of a DC is to true it up in the spindle before use. That guarantees 100% concentricity.

Daniel


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## gkemper

I didn't read (or maybe I missed it) what brand of DRO did you get? 

Is that spacer behind the cross feed really required? I really want use a handle there rather than a wrench.

Thanks

Gary


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## BVH

Thanks Gadget. I rushed right out to try truing it down in the spindle. After a half hour of progressively smaller cuts, the tip would not cooperate and usually it would break off or bend. So I finally used my brain, got my Dremel out, fitted it with a flat Carborundum wheel, fired up the lathe and the Dremel and finely ground down about a 3/16" long, super, super razor thin tip at the same 60 degree angle. I went from the two OEM DC's making the head and tailstock look aligned to finding that the tail was between .008 and .010" towards the back of the machine. Man was it super easy and perfectly crystal clear to adjust into perfect alignment using my 20 X's loop. I'll keep these DC's specifically for checking alignment someday.


Gary, The DRO is the brand that came from Matt on the machine. I bought one of those beautiful $100 stainless, spring-loaded handles and couldn't use it because of the spacer. My recollection is that in order to have a bolt spacing in the carriage wide enough to fit the scale bolt spacing, the adapter was necessary. The part I don't remember is whether I could have re-drilled the carriage with wider spaced holes to directly fit the scale. In looking at it just now, I don't see why you couldn't re-drill and tap it.

If I were to do it again, I would buy a set from DROPros and get the magnetic (much easier to align, you can cut them to size yourself and much more chip tolerant) instead of the glass scales and get them in the .001 resolution. I broke my cross slide scale and bought a replacement from DROPros in the .0001 resolution and just love it versus the .0002 reso. of the original .0002 resop on the ways scale.


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## gkemper

BVH said:


> Gary, The DRO is the brand that came from Matt on the machine. I bought one of those beautiful $100 stainless, spring-loaded handles and couldn't use it because of the spacer. My recollection is that in order to have a bolt spacing in the carriage wide enough to fit the scale bolt spacing, the adapter was necessary. The part I don't remember is whether I could have re-drilled the carriage with wider spaced holes to directly fit the scale. In looking at it just now, I don't see why you couldn't re-drill and tap it.




Or you could maybe just make a thinner spacer using the current one as a model. It looks a little thick for what it does. An 1/8" thick
plate and use counter sunk flat head screws should work just fine. That will probably give you enough room for the handle. 

Another option would be to just drill a new hole in the carriage and plug the old one with a plastic cap to keep stuff from falling in it.
You would just need to make sure the clamping plate can still be moved over to the right. 

Are there part numbers on the scales?

Thanks

Gary


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## BVH

Easson brand. ES8A Model. I remember now in talking with the DROPros that the model that came on my machine was already out of date just after having received the machine. And the Cross slide scale was the 350mm version instead which overhung the cross slide by quite a bit (aesthetics only, I just didn't like the looks of it). I bought the 300mm version which still gives full travel.

I cannot recommend enough that you talk to the guys at DRO Pros before buying one on the machine. They were exceptionally friendly, helpful and gave me more than a half hour on the phone multiple times. The cost would have been cheaper also by buying from them - although you would have to install it.

http://dropros.com/


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## gkemper

I have been looking at the DroPros website for a while now. I can get the same ES8A that comes with the lathe and install it myself and save $200. I am still waiting so see
if I even want one. I'm going on 40 years now without one. I know that for a mill I would sure want one.

As far as your being out of date, I wouldn't worry about it. It just means that tweaked the software a bit and is probably something to do the the mill features since the
lathe features are pretty basic and wouldn't need to be changed.


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## las3r

Maybe a lil off topic but has anyone with the pm1236 lathe made there own video in action ?? And while using there dro ??

id like to see the dro in action bc I Never used one before and when I order mine ill have to decide with or with out


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## BVH

gkemper said:


> I have been looking at the DroPros website for a while now. I can get the same ES8A that comes with the lathe and install it myself and save $200. I am still waiting so see
> if I even want one. I'm going on 40 years now without one. I know that for a mill I would sure want one.
> 
> As far as your being out of date, I wouldn't worry about it. It just means that tweaked the software a bit and is probably something to do the the mill features since the
> lathe features are pretty basic and wouldn't need to be changed.



When making a lot of my lamp adapters, they entail a "by-hand" "press-fit" clearance. There's no way I could do the work as easy as I do without the .0001 resolution DRO. I would be wasting a lot of materials and my time. I'd never be without one now having used one. Many here on CPF have said the same thing.


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## gkemper

BVH said:


> When making a lot of my lamp adapters, they entail a "by-hand" "press-fit" clearance. There's no way I could do the work as easy as I do without the .0001 resolution DRO. I would be wasting a lot of materials and my time. I'd never be without one now having used one. Many her on CPF have said the same thing.



You got the 1 micron glass scale on the cross feed?


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## wquiles

las3r said:


> Maybe a lil off topic but has anyone with the pm1236 lathe made there own video in action ?? And while using there dro ??
> 
> id like to see the dro in action bc I Never used one before and when I order mine ill have to decide with or with out



I would "never" consider the lathe without the DRO. It is that important/valuable, even more so for any/all repetitive work, threading, making external/internal o-ring grooves, etc.. It just plainly makes the lathe a "lot" more user friendly and helps you extract all of the accuracy the machine is capable off.

As for videos, pretty much all of my videos on my PM 12x36 show machining with the DRO:
http://www.youtube.com/user/williamquiles

Will


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## las3r

Thanks Will I just watched many of your vids A+


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> I bought one of those beautiful $100 stainless, spring-loaded handles and couldn't use it because of the spacer. My recollection is that in order to have a bolt spacing in the carriage wide enough to fit the scale bolt spacing, the adapter was necessary. The part I don't remember is whether I could have re-drilled the carriage with wider spaced holes to directly fit the scale. In looking at it just now, I don't see why you couldn't re-drill and tap it.



I also don't see why one couldn't redrill a new hole. After all, mine is located further to the right than yours & WillQ's. Shouldn't be anything to tap though (at least for the carriage) as the hole is straight through the carriage & threads into a plate that acts as a brake under the way.




BVH said:


> bought a replacement from DROPros in the .0001 resolution and just love it versus the .0002 reso. of the original .0002 resop on the ways scale.



I've been thinking about upgrading to a 1 micron scale for just the X axis. Did you just connect it as is or did you set the resolution on DRO unit to match the scale? To my understaning, if you change the resolution to 1 micron using the 1 micron scale, does your resolution change to 0.00005? If it reads down to 0.0001 on the 5 micron setting with the 1 micron scale that would be great but I'm kind of thinking that it would be annoying if the only option was to have it read down to 0.00005. If it does, does that bother you at all with that 5th digit?


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## gkemper

darkzero said:


> I've been thinking about upgrading to a 1 micron scale for just the X axis. Did you just connect it as is or did you set the resolution on DRO unit to match the scale? To my understaning, if you change the resolution to 1 micron using the 1 micron scale, does your resolution change to 0.00005? If it reads down to 0.0001 on the 5 micron setting with the 1 micron scale that would be great but I'm kind of thinking that it would be annoying if the only option was to have it read down to 0.00005. If it does, does that bother you at all with that 5th digit?



I believe that if you are in diameter mode that it will display .0001 (0.0005 x 2) which is just what you want! True diameter readings. That's what I'll be ordering if I can get it with the ES8 readout.


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## darkzero

gkemper said:


> I believe that if you are in diameter mode that it will display .0001 (0.0005 x 2) which is just what you want! True diameter readings. That's what I'll be ordering if I can get it with the ES8 readout.



Yes that is correct but what I was talking about is different. With the asian glass dro scales, they come in 5 micron & 1 micron scales. 5 micron scales are the norm & is what all the kits come with standard as well as the ones installed on the machines from Matt. But DRO Pros sell the 1 micron scales individually which will work with my DRO. The 5 micron scales will have a resolution of 0.0002 & the 1 micron scale would have a resolution of 0.00005. But for the 1 micron scale, you have to set the resolution for that axis to 1 micron on the DRO. 

To my understanding, when you set the resolution on the DRO to 1 micron, you will have 5 decimal places rather than 4. Some say that 5th digit can be annoying & some DRO manuals say that a 1 micron scale will read incorrectly if that axis on the DRO is set to 5 micron.

I guess some DROs might operate differently. I'm trying to figure out if in Bob's case, did he just use the 1 micron scale with the DRO left on the 5 micron DRO resolution so it reads 0.0001 or if he has it set to 1 micron to read 0.00005? I would only want to get a 1 micron scale for the X axis & not the Z axis, I'm fine with the 0.0002 resolution there.


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## BVH

Had to go turn it on to verify. I had to buy the X-scale from DRO Pros because I broke the one that came with it. The new one is the .0001 resolution unit. After installation, I was on the phone with DRO Pros and we went thru the programming to set the DRO X-scale resolution to .0001 to match the new scale. The DRO displays a total of 5 digits now - only 4 to the right of the Decimal which is perfect. It counts up by ones. The OEM Y-scale also displays 4 digits to the right of the Decimal but counts by twos.


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> Had to go turn it on to verify. I had to buy the X-scale from DRO Pros because I broke the one that came with it. The new one is the .0001 resolution unit. After installation, I was on the phone with DRO Pros and we went thru the programming to set the DRO X-scale resolution to .0001 to match the new scale. The DRO displays a total of 5 digits now - only 4 to the right of the Decimal which is perfect. It counts up by ones. The OEM Y-scale also displays 4 digits to the right of the Decimal but counts by twos.



Cool, thanks for confirming Bob!


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## BVH

Geeze....After all that precision alignment work I later discovered I forgot to "set" the tailstock DC!!! Removed the chuck and set it up again. Of course it's off. After I aligned it, I thought I would rotate the tailstock spindle clamp to see how it affected the alignment. Quite a bit, maybe .005 - .007. So the question is - do I set the alignment with the clamp partially engaged to the point where I can still somewhat easily turn the handle but there's a bit of preload? Seems to me all work involving the tailstock would be more accurate if there's a bit of preload on the tailstock spindle and the alignment was set that way?


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## darkzero

I lock mine when aligning & anytime when possible when in use. As you've noticed, the more the TS quill is hanging out, the more it's off, especially with more weight like a big chuck. Locking it usually brings it back into close range. A while back I bought shim stock & was about to shim the TS before I figured this out.


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## BVH

Most of my tailstock-involved work is drilling so I need enough spindle play to turn the handle but from now on, I'll give it some preload equal to the amount that I will use for alignment.

Oh, and forgot to mention that I remember why the X-scale spacer was there originally. As I mentioned, it came with a longer scale that overhung both ends of the carriage so obviously, its' mounting holes were beyond the carriage - hence the adapter plate. When I got the new, shorter scale, I didn't feel like drilling and tapping new holes. But there is no reason you can't go without the spacer as far as I can see now. IIRC, the original holes are slightly bored into the tapered jibb pocket


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## wquiles

darkzero said:


> Yes that is correct but what I was talking about is different. With the asian glass dro scales, they come in 5 micron & 1 micron scales. 5 micron scales are the norm & is what all the kits come with standard as well as the ones installed on the machines from Matt. But DRO Pros sell the 1 micron scales individually which will work with my DRO. The 5 micron scales will have a resolution of 0.0002 & the 1 micron scale would have a resolution of 0.00005. But for the 1 micron scale, you have to set the resolution for that axis to 1 micron on the DRO.




You guys are too precise for me :devil:

I find the "normal" 0.0002" resolution "plenty" good for all work I have done so far 

Will


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> Oh, and forgot to mention that I remember why the X-scale spacer was there originally. As I mentioned, it came with a longer scale that overhung both ends of the carriage so obviously, its' mounting holes were beyond the carriage - hence the adapter plate. When I got the new, shorter scale, I didn't feel like drilling and tapping new holes. But there is no reason you can't go without the spacer as far as I can see now. IIRC, the original holes are slightly bored into the tapered jibb pocket



For the cross slide did you get a slim scale for the replacement? I used a slim scale for the cross slide with the adapter plate & a standard size scale for the bed. There's even a micro scale that has a lower profile than the slim scale.




wquiles said:


> You guys are too precise for me :devil:
> 
> I find the "normal" 0.0002" resolution "plenty" good for all work I have done so far
> 
> Will



Yeah, I was just thinking at the time. I have been happy with what I have now. Now that I have many other purchases to make this would not be something I would consider for a very long time if at all.


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## BVH

Yes, I got the slim scale for the X. I think having the .0001 scale is something like your thought process when you're deciding to convert to DRO or stay with dials and then once you convert, you would never consider going back. Once I saw the numbers counting up or down in normal 0-9 sequential display, it just felt comfortable and like it should be. Maybe it's one of those "order" compulsions I have. Everything has got to be tidy and in its place. Maybe it's that I'm left-brained.


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## gkemper

BVH said:


> Yes, I got the slim scale for the X. I think having the .0001 scale is something like your thought process when you're deciding to convert to DRO or stay with dials and then once you convert, you would never consider going back. Once I saw the numbers counting up or down in normal 0-9 sequential display, it just felt comfortable and like it should be. Maybe it's one of those "order" compulsions I have. Everything has got to be tidy and in its place. Maybe it's that I'm left-brained.



If I were to opt for a DRO I would go for the 1 micron x-axis scale for sure.

I looks like your scale sticks above the x-axis slide. Can you tell me the distance from the top of the x-axis slide to the carriage? It looks like the Sino scales sit flush to the top of the x-axis slide.


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## BVH

I'm chasing a problem instead of fixing it. I need to drill a 3mm hole in a 10-32 threaded rod. No problem, just chuck it up, use a centering bit, change to the 3mm bit and drill away. Trouble is, my holes are not centered and not off the same every time on multiple samples. One time, in profile view, it even looked like you took an automotive engine cam but instead of having one point on each lobe, there are two points, 180 degrees apart. Now saw it down the middle of one lobe and look at the cross section. That's how the end of the rod looked. The hole was very slightly off center but the top and bottom looked much thicker-walled than the left and right. I ground my two dead centers to an almost infinite point and have checked tail stock alignment multiple times with an 5mt to 3mt adapter on the headstock and a second infinite point ground DC in the TS. They are Knats-***-on using my nice little 10x's jewelers loop. Height looks right on, tool. So today, I face a small piece of Aluminum rod with my insert just a hair low to leave a center point. I install my Albrecht in the TS, install a new, very tiny centering bit, bring up the TS so the minimum extension is necessary and take a look with my loop. The bit point is probably .003-.005 off side-to-side. Vertical is off too by somewhat less. By chance I happen to grab the TS shaft and move it back and forth and WOW, a lot of movement. More than .005" seen with the naked eye. So finally my question. The TS wheel is held on by a double nut affair indicating to me that maybe the system uses a taper roller bearing and maybe all it needs is a little adjusting/preload.

The TS shaft will rotate back and forth a few degrees in the bore. Probably key and keyway slop. Normal?

Thoughts?


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> I'm chasing a problem instead of fixing it. I need to drill a 3mm hole in a 10-32 threaded rod. No problem, just chuck it up, use a centering bit, change to the 3mm bit and drill away. Trouble is, my holes are not centered and not off the same every time on multiple samples. One time, in profile view, it even looked like you took an automotive engine cam but instead of having one point on each lobe, there are two points, 180 degrees apart. Now saw it down the middle of one lobe and look at the cross section. That's how the end of the rod looked. The hole was very slightly off center but the top and bottom looked much thicker-walled than the left and right. I ground my two dead centers to an almost infinite point and have checked tail stock alignment multiple times with an 5mt to 3mt adapter on the headstock and a second infinite point ground DC in the TS. They are Knats-***-on using my nice little 10x's jewelers loop. Height looks right on, tool. So today, I face a small piece of Aluminum rod with my insert just a hair low to leave a center point. I install my Albrecht in the TS, install a new, very tiny centering bit, bring up the TS so the minimum extension is necessary and take a look with my loop. The bit point is probably .003-.005 off side-to-side. Vertical is off too by somewhat less. By chance I happen to grab the TS shaft and move it back and forth and WOW, a lot of movement. More than .005" seen with the naked eye. So finally my question. The TS wheel is held on by a double nut affair indicating to me that maybe the system uses a taper roller bearing and maybe all it needs is a little adjusting/preload.
> 
> The TS shaft will rotate back and forth a few degrees in the bore. Probably key and keyway slop. Normal?
> 
> Thoughts?



As far as for centering the TS, I'll share what I do. There's numerous ways to check for TS alignment & many people will have their own prefered methods of doing it. I don't know which way is "best" but these methods have worked great for me & I use them to check against each other. In shop class we were taught to align center to center & cutter height to center. I don't own any expensive high quality centers with nice tips so that doesn't work for me. But I never liked the thought of this method of eyeballing as I rather have some sort of reference of measuring.

These methods are assuming you don't have any issues with bed twist, headstock alignment, carriage issues, etc.


*Method 1:

*First I adjust the run out of my Set -Tru to the lowest acceptable amount using a 1.5"Ø linear shaft.








I got two 0.4000" Class ZZ Plus pin gages for $3ea at the local MSC. I measure both to make sure they are the same size. Pin size is your preference.







Then I mount one in the chuck & one in the drill chuck mounted in TS. Bring both ends together & measure them. Measuring on the sides with the contact faces of the mic square to the pins will tell you how much your TS is off to either side. Adjust TS as needed. Measuring top to bottom will tell you how high or low your TS is.












Of course with this method, the run out of both chucks will affect you measurement. I've used this method a lot & never had any unsatisfactory issues when drilling holes.

You've probably already noticed but how tight you lock the TS will affect alignment. I used to crank down on the TS nut on the lathes in shop class & wondered why drill bits would drop down (that & certain section of the worn bed ways affected it also). I quickly learned there was no reason to lock the TS as tight as I could. It's best to get a feel for how much torque is needed under use & try to consistently use that same torque when you lock it. Ever notice in one of the Grizzly manuals that shows the ability to use a torque wrench for the TS lock? Well I won't go that far but I do have a good sense in torquing things somewhat consistently since I used to work in automotive.

As mentioned before a drill chuck or a heavy live center can drop TS alignment when the quill is extended far out. If this happens, locking the TS quill usually brings it back up. And to answer your question, yes the TS quill does rotate back and forth slightly which is normal.



*Method 2:

*You can make or buy a test bar to be used between centers like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmMmM8B40bs But in order to make one, your TS would have to be somewhat aligned which can be a problem if that's what you're trying to do in the first place. I have a 1"Ø x 6" linear shaft that I center drilled on both ends. I'd like to have a longer one but this is what I had for the mini-lathe.

These pics don't actually represent what I'm trying to explain but it will give you a visual idea so don't pay attention to my readings. Mount the bar between centers. With an indicator mounted to the carriage somewhere, indicate the side of the test bar close to the spindle, zero or record your reading, spindle not powered on BTW. Then move the carriage to the TS end & compare measurements. Adjust TS as needed. Again, measuring the top will tell you how high or low your TS is. I like to filp the test bar around & take some more measurements to compare. I find mounting the indicator in the tool post like in the video above is much more solid & gives you less chance of error.













Your TS shouldn't be worn yet & should be a thou or two high as is mine. You also shouldn't have low spots on your ways causing the carriage to drop. TS height can be fixed by shimming. If your TS is much higher than that then something is wrong. If your carriage drops or raises as it's moved along the bed then something is wrong.

I found out that the center that came with my lathe is a POS. I measured the runout on the taper on the spindle which is good. Then I measured the inside taper of my spindle sleeve which was not bad. Then with the center mounted in the sleeve, I measured the center & I was not happy but then again I was not surprised. I don't have any other dead centers but I have a MT5 & MT3 on order. I measured runout on the bar at the TS end & it was pretty much the same low runout as my live center so I'll be keeping the Skoda live centers I have.



*Method 3:

*This method is probably the easiest & all you need is a piece of bar stock, a mic, & a center. Mount a piece of bar stock in the chuck close to the size capacity of your mic. No need to really go over an inch in diameter. Face the end, then center drill. Chuck run out doesn't matter with this method & as long as your TS is close to center you are fine. Turn down the diameter to get a nice even finish. Then part a section off the end but be sure to clear the center drilled section. Before I part all the way off I like to chamfer/deburr both side of the cut, then part all the way off. Completly remove the nub left from parting on either piece. You can also face the piece that is mounted in the chuck if you want but do not remove the bar stock from the chuck or loosen it so it stays tru to the spindle. Mount a center in your TS with the parted off piece, bring the ends together, then measure just like in method 1.













I don't claim to know what I'm doing or talking about but again these methods have worked very well for me. Carefull with the TS adjustment set screws as they are cheap. I haven't stripped mine but I will be replacing them when I remember. I started looking for other methods to help minimize turning tapers on long pieces. There's also another method that I won't go into detail since I have not tried it yet. It's similar to making a test bar that allows you to adjust for turning tapers without having to cut the entire length of a test bar. I believe in some Grizzly manuals they describe how to adjust the TS by making a test cut along the length of a test bar.

Please let us know if you get your TS to behave properly.


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## precisionworks

BVH said:


> ... So finally my question. The TS wheel is held on by a double nut affair indicating to me that maybe the system uses a taper roller bearing and maybe all it needs is a little adjusting/preload.



Most machines use a thrust washer in between the TS wheel & the TS body. No way to preload.

All three of Will's methods work well, choose the one you like best. If I had to guess, more than half of all imported TS rams are not coaxial with headstock bore. Took me half a day of shimming-testing-shimming-testing to get alignment dead on. Well worth the time it takes to get it right.


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## BVH

Thanks Will for the great detail that you always provide! I will give it a try. One thing though....I visually see what you're doing in a couple of the pics when you're mic'n across the ends of two shafts but I don't quite understand what you're looking for and how you can mic across the two different pieces?.

I am also going to measure the side-to-side play I mentioned to know precisely what it is. If I do have .005 or around that, it sounds like I have a mechanical tail stock problem and no amount of alignment will fix it.

You're right about the TS alignment allen screws - pure junk. I had many degrees of rotational slop btw the metric wrench and hex hole. I just bought a pack of 10 from McMaster. PM me your add'y and I'll send you some.


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## gadget_lover

I suspect that you need to tighten the lock on the tailstock ram to get a consistent reading. It's a split cylinder with a clamping screw, right? I always partially tighten mine before drilling to get everything on center.

Daniel


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> Thanks Will for the great detail that you always provide! I will give it a try. One thing though....I visually see what you're doing in a couple of the pics when you're mic'n across the ends of two shafts but I don't quite understand what you're looking for and how you can mic across the two different pieces?.
> 
> I am also going to measure the side-to-side play I mentioned to know precisely what it is. If I do have .005 or around that, it sounds like I have a mechanical tail stock problem and no amount of alignment will fix it.
> 
> You're right about the TS alignment allen screws - pure junk. I had many degrees of rotational slop btw the metric wrench and hex hole. I just bought a pack of 10 from McMaster. PM me your add'y and I'll send you some.



No problem Bob. 

Sorry, I should have explained that part, was late & the post was longer than I had expected.

We'll use pics 2, 3, & 4. For Method 1, the idea is to measure the dia of both pin gages to verify they are pretty much the same diameter, this is very important. In pic 1, both my pins measure that same size. Bring the two pins together, in pic 2, I'm showing measurment from side to side. The idea is the get the contact faces square on the pins & measuring across both pins. If it was perfect alignment you should get a measurement of what the pins measure, in my case 0.4000". But I have a reading of 0.4002". This means my TS is 0.0002" of to one side. That's good enough for me & 0.0002" is so small that it's probably not accurate do to the run out of both chucks, etc.

If you were to look closely at the pins where the mic is contacting the pins, you would see a gap on the pins between the contact faces of the pins. So if my TS was off to the right, I would see a gap on the right side contact face on the pin on the spindle side & I would see a gap on the left side contact face on the pin on the TS side. Make sense?

In pic 4 I'm measuring top to bottom alignment. I have a reading of 0.40015". So my TS is 0.0015" high. If the height was dead center it would read 0.4000"

Same way of measuring for Method 3 except this method would be more accurate in theory. Machining the diameter of the bar stock is basically making a pin gage except the finish is only as fine as your lathe can produce instead of a nice ground finish. It's more accurate cause since the piece you turned down is tru to the spindle (run out of the chuck does not matter as long as you never move the piece you turned in the jaws). And you don't have the runout from the drill chuck introduced into your reading, assuming your live or dead center is pretty accurate. An Albrecht may be one of the best, not perfect, but good enough in our case. Only downside to this method is that you have to "make" the test pieces everytime you use this method to measure which is no big deal. I use method 1 most often cause it's the quickest.

Oh & thank you very much on the offer for the TS set screws. Mcmaster is exactly where I was going to order the replacements. PM incoming! :twothumbs


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## BVH

I understood as soon as I read your explanation - excellent! As it turns out, my slop is about .0025 with the quill out about 1.5" so not too bad. It was magnified to about .015 at the end of the end mill in the Albrecht.

Gadget, good point but unfortunately for me, I had already done that. Not sure how it works but what you describe sounds like how it's tightened when the little handle is slightly preloaded, so to speak.


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## precisionworks

*Re: Where's the beef?*

Sure sounds like a warranty issue to me. Matt should offer to swap a new one for your existing TS & the replacement should eliminate the play between ram & body. You'll still need to shim & adjust it but that isn't hard.

Fixing it yourself could be costly. Have the ram hard chromed to add about .050" to the diameter & have the casting ID ground to accept the ram. Play would end up well under .001". Probably $100 for hard chrome & about the same to have it internal ground.

A non-aligned TS will offset thin stock & produce a nice taper that's smallest at the TS & gets larger toward the chuck. Drilled holes will be over sized at entry & reaming will be close to impossible ... BTDT. It's worth the effort to get it right.

When drilling or reaming the ram lock (on mine) is not engaged. It's normally used only with a live center.


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> As it turns out, my slop is about .0025 with the quill out about 1.5" so not too bad. It was magnified to about .015 at the end of the end mill in the Albrecht.



Hey Bob, so I went & measured my TS quill per the details in your PM. With the quill extended to the 1.5" mark & indicating 1/4" from the front of the quill, grabbing on my 5/8" chuck, I am able to move it just over one & half thou in both directions. Then if I lock the quill, I can only get it to move less than half a thou. Hope this helps.




darkzero said:


> I found out that the center that came with my lathe is a POS..... I have a MT5 & MT3 on order.



So I received the import dead centers that were on sale at Enco & ordered them with the recent 15% sale on top of the sale price. They had the standard steel imports & the bearing steel imports for a bit more. So I ordered the bearing steel ones. To my surprise, the import ones I got are Bison. Didn't expect that. :twothumbs







But damn that MT5 center is huge! I'm posting here (hope Bob doesn't mind) cause I think I remember Bob saying somewhere that he had a MT5 center & had issues with it seating in the spindle? Well I have that issue with mine, it won't seat in the taper cause the back end of the center comes in contact with the spindle bore. I thought about cutting it short so it wouldn't be so big & cumbersome but what a shame if I did. Then I thought about slightly boring the section of the spindle where it hits but not sure if I want to risk it.

Then I decided to mount my dogplate to see how far it sticks out & it does stick out much further than I want. Don't think my drive dogs will work with it. I'll just set it aside for now since I didn't pay much for it & think about it some other time. But what do you guys think I should do?








Here's how far it sticks out with a MT3 & sleeve which is perfect.








Run out with the Bison MT3 dead center is much less now but I think it should be better. I'm going to order a replacement sleeve from grizzly to see if it's any better. My sleeve that came with the lathe doesn't look like it was ground so good anyway.


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## BVH

I don't know what I was doing the first time I tried and had an issue with the 5mt but went to do it a few months ago and it works fine - go figure! Well looks like you've got .002" less play than I do. I emailed Matt yesterday. Let's see what happens.

I need to part and bore some fiberglass tubing. Will my std carbide for steel/stainless or the Alum/non-ferrous work?


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## darkzero

BVH said:


> I need to part and bore some fiberglass tubing. Will my std carbide for steel/stainless or the Alum/non-ferrous work?



Alumn specific inserts would be better, the sharp, ground, high positive kind. Take caution though, like carbon fiber (but probably a bit easier on the cutters) it can easily into to places that you don't want it to & will gum things up nasty. You will have to take parts of the lathe apart to clean it all up when it does & cleaning that crap is not fun. Use a shop vac to suck up most of the dust when cutting. And the obvious, wear eye & especially breathing protection. Just thinking about it gets me all itchy! I hate grinding, sanding, cutting glass resins.


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## KC2IXE

if it is nominally MT5, but an MT5 center is too long, it probably is actually what they call an MT4.5 - same diameter and taper as an MT5, but shorter


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## BVH

Matt has been great to work with on trying to find my growling vibration. I think I mentioned that I changed the motor bearings to no avail. Matt then sent me a new motor to try thinking maybe there is something electrically wrong with mine. That did not change anything. Since the noise is there with only the motor running the half-length headstock input shaft running - everything else disengaged, the half shaft bearings are the only thing left as suspect. I finally pulled it down yesterday and upon carefully spinning them, they appear to be slightly but noticeably rough and raspy. There's one bearing at the tail end and two together at the pulley. I've got the new bearings but am not able to get the shaft seal until Tuesday. The one question that Matt and I have talked about with the new and old pulley bearings is that should the rubber bearing side seals be left on or taken off. 3 of the 4 sides of the two old bearings had the seals intact when taken apart. The 4th side seal was missing but it was on the inside where the two bearings are together. Normally in the splash environment, I would say they should not be there but these bearings are completely covered from direct splash oil by the large gear right next to them and the only path for the oil to get to them is a 1/8" "ring" of space between the OD of the big gear and the ID of the case housing. Even if the oil gets thru the ring, I really don't see a way for it to get down and into the sides of the bearings to lube them.


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## BVH

All fixed! Long story short, it was immediately obvious by its’ absence that the noise and vibration are gone. Just turning the shaft by hand once it was installed told the story. Much quieter. It’s an interesting assembly to put together and install. The two bearings that make up the double row "bearing" have to be pressed onto the shaft first and locked at one end by a snap ring. Then that ***’y has to be pressed into the bearing housing and a snap ring installed around the OD on the opposite end. Then the the gears are installed on the shaft followed by the tail bearing and then a snap ring. So when disassembling, it’s all got to come out as an assembly because of the snap rings. But the fun part was installing the ***’y. Because the bearing housing actually “presses” into the case and the tail bearing presses into the case all at the same time, it felt very, very tight all the way in. But I just used four longer bearing housing bolts to walk it in around a circle about ¼ turn per bolt.

It was good that I yanked the seals because now that it’s re-installed, I can see where the splash oil gets to the bearings.

I’m not really sure if the lathe was this quiet to begin with. Probably was and the noise just grew slowly.

Bob


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## tino_ale

Ok, I am in the process of ordering a PM1236 right now, can't tell you how exited I am.
I am ordering a metric version, and CE certified machine since the machine will end up here in France. I'm also getting a feed rod clutch and a micro carriage stop.

At best the machine will be in stock in 6 weeks, then shipment to me... a lot of patience and excitement management will be involved on my side !!
I hope you don't mind me hijacking your thread to share stuff and, inevitably, ask questions about this machine set up and operation.

Cheers


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## wquiles

Good luck dude 

Except for wanting a heavier/sturdier base/mount for the PM1236, I am still very happy with my purchase


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## tino_ale

In fact I've had a hard time deciding between the PM1236 and the PM1340GT (which is from Taiwan). The second seems to be a clear cut higher in fit and finish and quality but the CE certification option was much higher on that model, plus the higher base price, that would have ended up in a costy upgrade. I'm starting from scratch in the lathe business and I have tons of tooling to buy.

When I see what folks here achieve with their PM1236 I'm pretty sure I will be the limiting factor in the equation anyway. :shrug:

The shipping and installation process (lifting etc) make me really sweat so I'll have much more peace of mind once my lathe is set up in my garage.


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## wquiles

tino_ale said:


> In fact I've had a hard time deciding between the PM1236 and the PM1340GT (which is from Taiwan). The second seems to be a clear cut higher in fit and finish and quality but the CE certification option was much higher on that model, plus the higher base price, that would have ended up in a costy upgrade. I'm starting from scratch in the lathe business and I have tons of tooling to buy.
> 
> When I see what folks here achieve with their PM1236 I'm pretty sure I will be the limiting factor in the equation anyway. :shrug:
> 
> The shipping and installation process (lifting etc) make me really sweat so I'll have much more peace of mind once my lathe is set up in my garage.



"If" you can afford it, go with the heaviest lathe you can buy. I have learned my lesson there with the 7x, then the 8x, and now the 12x. For the work I do the 14x is "the" ideal size (and weight, specially the one made in Taiwan).


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## tino_ale

Actually the PM1340GT (1310lbs) that precision matthew sells is not much heavier than the PM1236(1250lbs), surprisingly.
The size of the PM1236 is already a stretch for my small shop, anything larger would have been, really, too much.
But if I was in the US (much cheaper shipping, no need for CE certification) I would have gone with the PM1340GT.


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## wquiles

I was thinking more on the 14x HD models:
http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1440HD.html

and on the Taiwanese 14x lathes:
http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1660G.html

"If" I had the money, that Taiwanese 14x is that I would buy today. Then again, a CNC machine might be nice to have as well


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## BVH

Congrats on the new machine! Always fun to live vicariously thru someone elses purchase, delivery and setup experience.


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## StrikerDown

wquiles said:


> and on the Taiwanese 14x lathes:
> http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1660G.html
> 
> "If" I had the money, that Taiwanese 14x is that I would buy today. Then again, a CNC machine might be nice to have as well



Yup... That D1-6 would be calling my name!


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## precisionworks

Definitely get a D1-6 spindle. My 14" KingOfChina has the D1-5 & it's hard to find much on eBay for that size.

The seller no longer carries my little 14x40 & their smallest is now the 16x40. Just a little bigger in all dimensions, 3.15" spindle bore, D1-8 spindle nose, MT5 tailstock, 7.5 hp motor, etc. With taper attachment & DRO it's $18k plus shipping. 

16"-18" is an ideal size for a small shop IMO.


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## tino_ale

Hi guys,

The machine I've ordered will be fitted with a feed rod clutch and a micro carriage stop. After searching about what this exactly is and is not, I'm confused. Can you help me clarify ?

At first I thought the feed rod clutch allows one to safely cut to a shoulder using power feed (using the properly positionned and locked micro stop) as the feed will slip once the carriage touches a solid stop. Basically, the slipping mechanism would be weak enough to let the power feed slip preventing any unecessary wear, yet at the same time strong enough to allow a positive and even feed speed under power feed.

Can this "feed clutch" mechanism really be used on a regular basis or should I stay away from using it, as it will (maybe ?) stress the power feed mechanism ?

I know I can use a micro-carriage stop under manual feed for the last few mm but getting an even and perfect finish by the mean of the power feed right until a shoulder or taper is tempting.

The other option I can envision is contacting the carriage against the stop, plunging the cutter, then cut _away_ from the chuck, towards a clear zone.

You thoughts ?


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## calipsoii

Man tino_ale, I'm excited for you and I'm not even the one buying the lathe! Got very close to pulling the trigger on a PM1236 & PM45M but life came up with some expenses, as it often does. I'm looking forward to your unboxing and setup.


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## precisionworks

tino_ale said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> The machine I've ordered will be fitted with a feed rod clutch and a micro carriage stop. After searching about what this exactly is and is not, I'm confused. Can you help me clarify ?



info here http://www.manualslib.com/manual/481212/Southbend-Sb1053-Owner-S-Manual.html?page=81


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## tino_ale

Thanks, that is helpfull. I will probably adjust it very weak then increase the tension just enough for the carriage to be able to be driven by power feed.


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## precisionworks

tino_ale said:


> ... I will probably adjust it very weak then increase the tension just enough for the carriage to be able to be driven by power feed.


LOL mine is in the locked out position. To me it was more trouble than anything else as the carriage would stop feeding (or feed for a minute & then stop for a minute) for any number of reasons. Now it feeds reliably. 

A slip clutch will not prevent a crash & it never seemed too useful with the micro stop. Just power feed until the stop is 2mm or 3mm away & hand feed the last little bit.


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## tino_ale

precisionworks said:


> A slip clutch will not prevent a crash & it never seemed too useful with the micro stop.


Can you elaborate why it will not prevent a crash ? Do you mean if you forget to preperly set the micro stop first ?

I envision that a power feed all the way to a shoulder would leave a better surface finish than an auto feed, stop, then manual feed to the shoulder ? Is it not usefull for ID bore to a shoulder or end of bore ?

Say I want a nice surface finish and I need to reduce an OD and turn a shoulder.
1. set micro-stop to locate shoulder plus just enough for a finishing pass
2. rought turn OD with auto feed against the micro-stop
3. back off the micro stop to final shoulder location
4. finish turn the OD with auto feed against the micro-stop, leave the cutter at the corner
5. engage cross feed to cut the finishing pass of the shoulder

Wouldn't that be the best sequence to achieve the best finish result ?


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## precisionworks

Since I don't use the clutch at all I really cannot answer those questions. Some of the other members here can elaborate on their experience with the clutch & micro stop.



> Is it not useful for ID bore to a shoulder or end of bore ?


I use the DRO for that function.


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## Davo J

My thoughts on the clutch are that it's a safety clutch to prevent a crash and the micro stop is to be used under hand power, not machine power.

It has been brought up on many forums over the years and it seems most think the same, that it's not there meant for that type of work. Some of the older lathes used to have a system which was meant for it, but they where more complicated than a simple 2 ball clutch slipping.

Dave


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## precisionworks

You're exactly right Dave. The only machines I've ever run with a stop that worked under power feed are the Monarch's & the DS&G. Both use an electrical micro switch to disengage the feed.


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