# LiteFlux LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)



## Sigman (Jul 1, 2008)

...continued from here.


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## LED-holic (Jul 1, 2008)

It's July 1, any updates from Khoo? Are these lights shipping again?

Now that I have my NiteCore D10 on the way from 4Sevens, I'm turning back some attention to this light as well. Want to get more details on this light!!!


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## matrixshaman (Jul 1, 2008)

Yes I got a shipping notice yesterday and per the CPFM thread he has enough now to fill all orders. They should be all out by today or tomorrow I think if yours hasn't already gone out.


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## LED-holic (Jul 1, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> Yes I got a shipping notice yesterday and per the CPFM thread he has enough now to fill all orders. They should be all out by today or tomorrow I think if yours hasn't already gone out.


Thanks, I haven't ordered one yet. When you get yours please post pics and details.


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## clintb (Jul 1, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> Thanks, I haven't ordered one yet. When you get yours please post pics and details.


Don't think about it, just order. Really, it's that good.

If you're not put off by the seemingly complicated UI (it's not), then you'll be rewarded with a light that's of exceptional build quality. The beam is gorgeous. It has memory, but not the kind I hate. Khoo calls it "turn off memory", which does just that; where you turn it off is where it comes back on. If you turn it on and back off immediately, it comes back on from where it started. There is no delay for the memory. Finally, someone gets it right! Anodizing is perfect. Lettering is perfect. The dual cigar grip is functional. LED is centered perfectly (at least on mine).

I'm impressed enough with the black that I ordered a natural.


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## ackbar (Jul 1, 2008)

anyone else here concerned about the runtime? I've been following the hype about the UI (which I love btw, as far as I understand it anyway) but can a little concerned about the runtime when on the lower side of the scale. From the runtimes graphs at light-reviews, it shows that the light last just under 5 and a half hours @ 15%. In a SHTF senario I would like my primary EDC to be alot more efficient than that!


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## gunga (Jul 1, 2008)

Well, the Fenix L1D Q5 is a bit brighter on medium and only gets 4:39 hours, so I don't think it's a major deal. 

The 1% mode is still pretty useful (around 3-4 lumens I estimate) so I'd figure out runtimes on that mode for survival use.


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## ackbar (Jul 1, 2008)

I guess we will need to see a runtime graph for 1%


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## mighty82 (Jul 1, 2008)

It's a good little light, but it's not perfect. It's a lot of whining/flickering problems, on 100% it's screaming like crazy. The LF5XT has a very different beam from every other light I own, so it's difficult comparing it to other flashlights just like that. 

It has a smaller hotspot and a brighter spill so it will look dimmer when compared to another light, even if it's really putting out more light thanks to the very bright spill. So in use you notice that you can see a lot more around the hotspot than with other flashlights. 5% on 14500 is the same total output as the low mode on my L1D, but you have to step up one level to get the same hotspot intensity.

The "%" thing doesn't seem to be accurate. I doubt 25% is exactly half of 50% and 10% is exactly the half of 20%. Also it's impossible to set it to the exact % level you want on the lower end. It can only be set to 1-2-5-11-15, it will jump to those levels no matter how you try to adjust it.

I hope some of you can understand some of what i'm saying here


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## Burgess (Jul 1, 2008)

Just so you realize . . . .


The " % " means *Percent of Current Supplied to the LED*.


It does NOT mean *Percent of Maximum Brightness*.




Regarding run-times . . . .

On *my* LF5XT, with Sanyo Eneloops, perhaps a week off charger:


At 50 % setting, it lasts about 85 minutes.


At 15 % setting, it lasts about 4.2 hours.


At 2 % setting, it lasts about 14 hours.


My run-times seem to be somewhat shorter than 
what's posted on Light-Reviews.

Your mileage may vary. And probably will. 


BTW, i have " Battery Protection from Low Discharge " turned ON.


I am quite pleased with my new LiteFlux LF5XT.

Has the nicest looking Cree beam i've ever seen. 

And, i can set it up to operate JUST the way i want it to work.


:twothumbs
_


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## nanotech17 (Jul 2, 2008)

my beauty just arrived ( about 10 minutes ago )
mine tint is on the warm side.
beam pattern almost identical to my Amilite Cuty XRE ( with McGizmo reflector ) almost like a Seoul SSC P4
Very2 nice :twothumbs
Beamshot - LF5XT on the left.


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## Doug (Jul 2, 2008)

How long does it take to get a light from Khoo to SoCal?


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## clintb (Jul 2, 2008)

Doug said:


> How long does it take to get a light from Khoo to SoCal?


Let's see, my LF2x shipped on the June 23rd and arrived July 1st. Shouldn't be too much different for SoCal.


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## nanotech17 (Jul 2, 2008)

why my over discharge protection doesn't work when testing on 14500?:thinking:
Setting mode is fine.
Almost ruin my unprotected 14500 :sweat:


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## mighty82 (Jul 3, 2008)

Burgess said:


> Just so you realize . . . .
> 
> 
> The " % " means *Percent of Current Supplied to the LED*.
> ...


I don't think it's the percent of current to the led. Why on earth would it then last 4.2 hours on 15% and only 14 hours on 2%? Maybe they ment it to be, but it's just very inaccurate. Anyway, 14 hours on 2% is just HORRIBLY inefficient. 2% is MUCH lower than the low mode on my L1D in total output, and still it lasts longer oo:. 11% is more like the same output. Didn't they estimate 100 hours on 1%? I don't know how they were able to make a that inefficient circuit.

I love this lights beam quality, the design, the modes, about everything else. But I hate wasting power. It's like half the efficiency of my current regulated lights. :scowl:


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## alibaba (Jul 3, 2008)

I apologize if this has been covered but I didn't make it all the way thru part 1 but how does the LF5XT's switch compare in terms of reliability with the Nitecore D10's. When I first saw that brass sleeve I thought they had borrowed the PD design but when I looked further I saw that it's quite different. Is this design still more reliable than the average (or even above average) tail clicky?


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## mighty82 (Jul 3, 2008)

alibaba said:


> I apologize if this has been covered but I didn't make it all the way thru part 1 but how does the LF5XT's switch compare in terms of reliability with the Nitecore D10's. When I first saw that brass sleeve I thought they had borrowed the PD design but when I looked further I saw that it's quite different. Is this design still more reliable than the average (or even above average) tail clicky?


It's more reliable than a normal switch, because the current doesn't go through the switch. It only sends signals.


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## orcinus (Jul 3, 2008)

And, on top of that, it doesn't have any "mechanical overhead", i.e. any additional clicky retention mechanisms (forward or reverse) that could deteriorate or fail over time.


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## cave dave (Jul 3, 2008)

So are they attempting to fix the flickering and buzzing?


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 4, 2008)

cave dave said:


> So are they attempting to fix the flickering and buzzing?



Given how responsive the LiteFlux engineers were to feedback before releasing the light, I'm sure they are.

You make it sound like this is a blanket problem affecting all LF5XTs. Just out of curiosity: do you own the light and experience these issues, or are you basing the comment on the couple of posts in https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198193. I just don't think there are enough LF5XTs in users hands/pockets yet to say if flickering/buzzing is affecting an abnormally high number of torches. QC issues affect a certain small % of any torch release (including the expensive ones).

Faint inductor whine, which changes pitch according to brightness, is common to many torches (including high end ones). My LF5XT is no louder than any other torch I own.

I have no flickering in any mode, on any battery chemistry.

EDIT: Sorry, I read the post and it sounds bitchy when I didn't mean to be.


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## cave dave (Jul 4, 2008)

gadgetnerd said:


> You make it sound like this is a blanket problem affecting all LF5XTs. Just out of curiosity: do you own the light and experience these issues, or are you basing the comment on the couple of posts in https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198193.



I don't own one but I really want one.  I was off line for 2 weeks when they started to hit peoples hands. I'm out of the loop and its hard to catch up, but I tried to read all that I could find and I was under the impression they all flickered and whined.

I don't mind the inductor whine, I have poor hearing at those frequencies.

Note:
I really liked my LF2 until it started to develop un-fixable contact issues. Customer service was excellent, but I got my $ back as I just couldn't trust the design to be my EDC. My keychain light is usually the only* light I carry.

*Not including the several lights I have scattered around my home, car and office.


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 4, 2008)

cave dave said:


> I don't own one but I really want one.  I was off line for 2 weeks when they started to hit peoples hands. I'm out of the loop and its hard to catch up, but I tried to read all that I could find and I was under the impression they all flickered and whined.
> 
> I don't mind the inductor whine, I have poor hearing at those frequencies.
> 
> ...



My advice then - just get one! IMHO the LF5XT is as good as it currently gets for AA lights (D10 included).


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## mighty82 (Jul 6, 2008)

So, the low voltage protection does NOT work on my LF5XT. I just destroyed one unprotected 14500 battey. The light started to ramp down in brightness, and I could see a the warning blinking, but then the battery was already down below 1 volt, I guess the light thought it was a NiMh battery. Resting voltage afterwards is 2 volts. Do NOT use unprotected batteries in your LF5XT!


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 6, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> So, the low voltage protection does NOT work on my LF5XT. I just destroyed one unprotected 14500 battey. The light started to ramp down in brightness, and I could see a the warning blinking, but then the battery was already down below 1 volt, I guess the light thought it was a NiMh battery. Resting voltage afterwards is 2 volts. Do NOT use unprotected batteries in your LF5XT!



Sorry to hear that, 14500s aren't the cheapest cells either. I've not yet tried it with a 14500 but the low voltage cutoff works perfectly with NiMH.


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## clintb (Jul 6, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> So, the low voltage protection does NOT work on my LF5XT. I just destroyed one unprotected 14500 battey. The light started to ramp down in brightness, and I could see a the warning blinking, but then the battery was already down below 1 volt, I guess the light thought it was a NiMh battery. Resting voltage afterwards is 2 volts. Do NOT use unprotected batteries in your LF5XT!


Are you sure over discharge protection was enabled? IIRC, it's off by default.


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## mighty82 (Jul 6, 2008)

clintb said:


> Are you sure over discharge protection was enabled? IIRC, it's off by default.


Yes, I double checked it before running a test. Checked it afterwards too, it's on. But it kicked in WAY too late. When I used a protected battery, I could see the low voltage warning right before the protection in the battery kicked in. But with the unprotected battery, nothing happened until it was down to the nimh shutdown voltage at 0,8V. The battery is then destroyed.  Very disappointing.

Nanotech17 experienced the same thing: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2542265&postcount=14


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## nanotech17 (Jul 6, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> Yes, I double checked it before running a test. Checked it afterwards too, it's on. But it kicked in WAY too late. When I used a protected battery, I could see the low voltage warning right before the protection in the battery kicked in. But with the unprotected battery, nothing happened until it was down to the nimh shutdown voltage at 0,8V. The battery is then destroyed.  Very disappointing.
> 
> Nanotech17 experienced the same thing: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2542265&postcount=14



Yes,That is correct.
I tried the second time and i already ruined the unprotected 14500.
But with protected 14500 it is alright.
Unless there is something wrong with my unprotected 14500 cell chemistry.
Time to order more AW protected 14500


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## nanotech17 (Jul 6, 2008)

i'm not disappointed with mine
I love it - i set it as a 2 modes light,memory mode ON - hi - low.
And i still can get the strobe by 2xC & H on hi & low modes.
I still can get the Super Turbo mode while on low mode by fully click it & hold.
And I can still get the momentary Super Turbo mode while on OFF mode by fully click it & hold.
:wow: I'm


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## BabyDoc (Jul 6, 2008)

I just noted that Deal Extreme is now carrying this light in black.
They are charging only $68.50 including shipping. 

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14213

However, I still might want to get my light from Khoo. He will try to give you the light you want as far as tint is concerned. This extra service and the assurance he has personally checked out your light might make his higher price worth it.


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## h.g.trunnion (Jul 7, 2008)

Today (its July 7th in Germany) I received my beautyful natural HA-III from Khoo, who had sent me shipping notice on July 1st.

Thats pretty fast for all the airmail way from Malaysia to Germany incl. resting time at customs and so on.

Khoo added two gifts for all of us, who had to wait a little bit longer due to the Cree R2 shortage of LiteFlux: an Energizer Lithium primary L91 and a thick rubber ring, whose purpose actually isn't clear to me...
Anybody here with a good guess? Anything 'tactical'? 

Anyway: that again shows Khoo's care for his customer relationships, although the delay definitely wasn't his fault. Cheers to Khoo!

I already called my LF5XT a beauty: it is, in any sense. The finish is excellent; the beam is - I really don't find the right expression for this: GORGEOUS! No Cree rings, a fully filled circle of pure white with no blueish tendency whatsoever. I had never thought of any Cree lamp being able to produce such an overwhelming good spill.

The switch is a pleasure to use, compared to that oldish legacy rubber forward or reverse clickies, some of the elder members here might remember. :thinking:

The UI is no miracle at all - I had it all in less than 10 minutes and can only state: it works perfectly.

Last not least the very best: I also read some disturbing mails about flickering and whining sounds. As I'm quite sensitive to both 'bad behaviours', let me give you an 'all clear signal': there is no flickering at least on the lithium primary Energizer, nor on 1.5V Alcalines, nor on 1.2V Eneloops! Haven't tried the AW 14500 yet.
For the 'whining sound': on the factory default 50% Mode, I had to place the light into direct contact to my ear bones, to register a very, very silent tone of maybe 5 to 8 kHz. One inch away from my ear: no sound to be heard. PH (press hold) to maximum output: no sound wether in direct contact nor in any distance.
So for me there is really NO problem with any of the forementioned issues.

As a summary I can simply state: I finally have found the ultimate AA light.
Full stop.

Enjoy,

Norbert


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## mighty82 (Jul 7, 2008)

h.g.trunnion said:


> Last not least the very best: I also read some disturbing mails about flickering and whining sounds. As I'm quite sensitive to both 'bad behaviours', let me give you an 'all clear signal': there is no flickering at least on the lithium primary Energizer, nor on 1.5V Alcalines, nor on 1.2V Eneloops! Haven't tried the AW 14500 yet.
> For the 'whining sound': on the factory default 50% Mode, I had to place the light into direct contact to my ear bones, to register a very, very silent tone of maybe 5 to 8 kHz. One inch away from my ear: no sound to be heard. PH (press hold) to maximum output: no sound wether in direct contact nor in any distance.
> So for me there is really NO problem with any of the forementioned issues.


You can't say that none of the lights have this problem just becuase your light doesn't. Many of us have already experienced noises and flickering. The majority of these problems happens with 14500's though. I have only seen flickering one time on the lower modes on mine, but on 100% it flickers every time, and it makes a screaming noise that can be heard across the room. I still love the light, and everything else is perfect. I LOVE the beam and tint.


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## mchlwise (Jul 7, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> You can't say that none of the lights have this problem just becuase your light doesn't.



Neither can you say that all of the lights have this problem just because yours does. 

Mine has no whine or flicker at all on any battery, and I run it primarily on 14500 cells. 

This light is amazing!


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## orcinus (Jul 7, 2008)

h.g.trunnion said:


> Khoo added two gifts for all of us, who had to wait a little bit longer due to the Cree R2 shortage of LiteFlux: an Energizer Lithium primary L91 and a thick rubber ring, whose purpose actually isn't clear to me...
> Anybody here with a good guess? Anything 'tactical'?



Mine hasn't arrived yet, but i'm guessing it's to facilitate the cigar grip style.



h.g.trunnion said:


> For the 'whining sound': on the factory default 50% Mode, I had to place the light *into direct contact to my ear bones*, to register a very, very silent tone of maybe 5 to 8 kHz.



Ouch! That must've hurt! :duh2:
Did you use an endoscope or have you just shoved it down your ear canal? :nana:


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## LED Cool (Jul 7, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Mine hasn't arrived yet, but i'm guessing it's to facilitate the cigar grip style.



you are correct!


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## nanotech17 (Jul 7, 2008)

Tho not necessary but it's a habit of mine now on all of my flashlights.
I replace the stock lens with UCL,tho a bit thicker but not compromising the water resistant in the bezel,now it's really nice with increase blinding bright


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## Pyros (Jul 7, 2008)

Got mine today (shipped July 1, arrived in SoCal July 7). 

Absolutely terrific light. The beam quality is about as good as it gets, and I'm quite pleased with the (very white) tint of my particular emitter. The fit and finish are excellent -- some subtle machining marks are visible when light reflects off the flat surfaces, but the anodizing is terrific, and you really have to look for the machining marks. Overall a very attractive light.

What would I change? Well... First, the UI almost cannot be improved upon (really -- I mean it), but I would like it if I could move backwards as well as forwards through the settings. I've got mine set up so it goes dim to bright, and I wish I could not only double-click to go to the next brighter setting, but also triple-click to go to the next dimmer setting. Second, like many others, I do prefer an extremely low low. I've had an Arc4+ on the bedside table for a few years now, which I use to find my way around the house at night, and its lowest setting is much lower than this. Third, it would be nice to be able to attach a pocket clip.

All that said, this light is a revelation. I prefer single AA and AAA lights (and hotwires, but that's for another sub-forum), but I've been pretty dissatisfied with the options before now. This just about ends my search for the perfect AA light. Now if I only could find the perfect AAA light!

--Pyros


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 7, 2008)

Pyros said:


> Got mine today (shipped July 1, arrived in SoCal July 7).
> 
> Absolutely terrific light. The beam quality is about as good as it gets, and I'm quite pleased with the (very white) tint of my particular emitter. The fit and finish are excellent -- some subtle machining marks are visible when light reflects off the flat surfaces, but the anodizing is terrific, and you really have to look for the machining marks. Overall a very attractive light.
> 
> ...



Great summary pyros, I agree on every point. I especially like the idea of a triple press to go back to the previous brightness setting.

I can't believe that LiteFlux aren't hard at work on an LF5XT-2 with a lower low and a few miscellaneous UI improvements. There's not much else that can be done really.


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## LED Cool (Jul 8, 2008)

nanotech17 & mighty82,

i tested a few protected 14500s in 3 LF5XTs with over discharge activated, and they all works fine.

how old is your unprotected 14500?

khoo


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## nanotech17 (Jul 8, 2008)

LED Cool said:


> nanotech17 & mighty82,
> 
> i tested a few protected 14500s in 3 LF5XTs with over discharge activated, and they all works fine.
> 
> ...



mine is almost 2 years.
i think my unprotected 14500 cell chemistry is useless already.
I tested with LifePo4 cell freshly charge at 3.7v and my LF5XT shut down at 1.85v.
So this function in my LF5XT is working fine.
:thanks:


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## LED Cool (Jul 8, 2008)

initially there was intention to have the ability to go forward as well as backward through all 5 modes of output. but was later decided to scrap the backward command in order to reduce the number of commands to learn/remember. besides, triple click backwards is only useful when the LF5XT is in 4 mode or 5 mode output light. going backwards is redundant if it is a 2 mode light. 

and if it is a 3 mode light, the ability to go backwards is only marginally useful.

eg. user in mode 2 and need to go back to mode 1. user can triple click to go back to mode 1, or user can double click light to mode 3 and double click to mode 1. i.e. 4 clicks.

eg. user in mode 3 and need to go back to mode 2. user can triple click to go back to mode 2, or user can double click to mode 1 and double click to mode 2. i.e. 4 clicks.

the same 4 clicks goes for mode 1 going to mode 3.

therefore in a 3 mode LF5XT, the ability to go backwards only save the user 1 click.

of course, i would agree that in a 5 mode LF5XT, the ability to go backwards is a gem!

another question, how do you find the timing period of the press and hold (PH) 100% output and of the click + PH 100% random strobe? it is now set at 1 second. Do you think it should be reduce to a shorter time period?

thanks.
khoo


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## mighty82 (Jul 8, 2008)

nanotech17 said:


> mine is almost 2 years.
> i think my unprotected 14500 cell chemistry is useless already.
> I tested with LifePo4 cell freshly charge at 3.7v and my LF5XT shut down at 1.85v.
> So this function in my LF5XT is working fine.
> :thanks:


Mine was 2 weeks old. Charged 3 times. The chemistry should have nothing to do with it. If the cell reaches 2.8V it should shut down, no matter what. But the light just skipped that and let it go all the way down to 0.8V.

If your LF5XT shut down at 1.85V, what's fine about that?? It's suppose to be 2.8v.



LED Cool said:


> another question, how do you find the timing period of the press and hold (PH) 100% output and of the click + PH 100% random strobe? it is now set at 1 second. Do you think it should be reduce to a shorter time period?
> 
> thanks.
> khoo


Yes!


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## nanotech17 (Jul 8, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> Mine was 2 weeks old. Charged 3 times. The chemistry should have nothing to do with it. If the cell reaches 2.8V it should shut down, no matter what. But the light just skipped that and let it go all the way down to 0.8V.
> 
> If your LF5XT shut down at 1.85V, what's fine about that?? It's suppose to be 2.8v.
> 
> ...




i tested 2 types of cell.
one is li-ion 14500 - safe to discharge until 2.7v ( YMMV )
one is lifeP04 14500 - safe to discharge until 2.2v ( YMMV )
and just tested with Sanyo nimh 2700mah - it shut down at 0.8v ( YMMV )
Like they always said - only use AW li-ion cell - FWIW


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## Thujone (Jul 8, 2008)

LED Cool said:


> how do you find the timing period of the press and hold (PH) 100% output and of the click + PH 100% random strobe? it is now set at 1 second. Do you think it should be reduce to a shorter time period?
> 
> thanks.
> khoo



Cut it in half, or almost in half as far as I am concerned.. Not that it will help the ones I have but oh well...


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## mighty82 (Jul 8, 2008)

I just got a mail from khoo where he offered me an exchange for a new LF5XT head from a later batch, where liteflux had fixed the flickering issues and the "momentary on and memory off" issue. I guess that's why you guys that got your ligths from the second batch don't have any of the problems I have. Maybe the battery protection will work better too 

I'm just worried about getting one with a "less perfect" tint, because the one I have now has a PERFECT warm tint and beam.


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## h.g.trunnion (Jul 8, 2008)

@mighty82:
Maybe my English is too bad, but I wanted to say, that *my very light* didn't show any of the reported problems.

@orcinus:


> Ouch! That must've hurt! :duh2:
> Did you use an endoscope or have you just shoved it down your ear canal? :nana:


Boy I can tell you! Some parts of the LF5XT still have not shown up again from the depth of my ear canal. 

Of course I meant cartilage. 

---------------------------------------

Regarding the overdischarge function: my lamp shut down after some fast flashes. Measuring my AW protected 14500 it showed 2,78 V. Congratulation, LiteFlux, function very well programmed!

Right now, I'm writing a manual for the LF5XT in German and found out about some missing programming steps in the original little manual in chinese and english, they put to the box. (to be honest, I didn't read the chinese version). Namely, that when in SFM (special function menu) in any of the functions you of course have to enter 3C+PH first to read the actual setting, before you might toggle with 1xC.
And I think, you will never be able to leave the SFM with 3C+PH, but simply have to leave this level of programming by 3xC. 

Does anybody here have a description of the various beacon and strobe frequencies and settings? Or can give me a link?

@LEDcool:
Yes, I also would prefer a faster reaction time for the momentary functions.

But I'd rather prefer LiteFlux to work on an AAA lamp with the same UI. 

Regards from Germany,

Norbert


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## mchlwise (Jul 8, 2008)

The more I have my LF5XT, the more I love it. 

I just got the Nitecore D10, and for me there's no comparison. The LF5XT is by far the best AA based light out there at this point.


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## mighty82 (Jul 8, 2008)

h.g.trunnion said:


> Regarding the overdischarge function: my lamp shut down after some fast flashes. Measuring my AW protected 14500 it showed 2,78 V. Congratulation, LiteFlux, function very well programmed!


Yeah... :green: When it's working that is... Obviously it can't be trusted with unprotected batteries when it have failed for others already.. It worked with mine too, with aw protected and ultrafire protected, but not with my unprotected ultrafires.


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## LED Cool (Jul 8, 2008)

h.g.trunnion said:


> @LEDcool:
> Yes, I also would prefer a faster reaction time for the momentary functions.
> 
> Norbert



there is no time lag when using momentary function.

or may be you were responding to this question below ?

"another question, how do you find the timing period of the press and hold (PH) 100% output and of the click + PH 100% random strobe? it is now set at 1 second. Do you think it should be reduce to a shorter time period?"

khoo


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## gunga (Jul 8, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> I just got a mail from khoo where he offered me an exchange for a new LF5XT head from a later batch, where liteflux had fixed the flickering issues and the "momentary on and memory off" issue. I guess that's why you guys that got your ligths from the second batch don't have any of the problems I have. Maybe the battery protection will work better too
> 
> I'm just worried about getting one with a "less perfect" tint, because the one I have now has a PERFECT warm tint and beam.


 

Sorry, they fixed the flickering and memory/momentary issues? Well, that's kind of annoying to find out right after getting an earlier gen light...

:shakehead


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## h.g.trunnion (Jul 8, 2008)

Hi Khoo,



> or may be you were responding to this question below ?
> 
> "another question, how do you find the timing period of the press and hold (PH) 100% output and of the click + PH 100% random strobe? it is now set at 1 second. Do you think it should be reduce to a shorter time period?"



yes, that was what I was trying to respond to. 

On the other hand side, for the programming issues a PH with clearly noticable difference to any C is probably needed for the MCU?

(will anybody outside this thread understand that sentence? :laughing: and what about the insiders?)

Norbert


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## h.g.trunnion (Jul 8, 2008)

To whom it may concern:

some 15 minutes ago I loaded my 'Handbuch LiteFlux LF5 XT' in German on THE forum over there.
(my guess is, I'm not allowed to link here to any other websites outside the CPF, right?)

Should anybody over here be interested, then he or she may contact me by PM.

Regards,

Norbert


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## cave dave (Jul 8, 2008)

gadgetnerd said:


> My advice then - just get one! IMHO the LF5XT is as good as it currently gets for AA lights (D10 included).



Done!


----------



## LED-holic (Jul 8, 2008)

mchlwise said:


> The more I have my LF5XT, the more I love it.


that's awesome, that exactly how I feel about my NiteCore D10!!



> I just got the Nitecore D10, and for me there's no comparison. The LF5XT is by far the best AA based light out there at this point.


I can't wait to get my LF5XT to compare!! The much higher price of the LF5XT though, may mean I'll have to be satisfied with just one for now for a while, while I have multiple D10s. 

I'm soooo looking forward to my LF5XT.


----------



## mchlwise (Jul 8, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> that's awesome, that exactly how I feel about my NiteCore D10!!



I'm liking the D10 a little better than I did at first, now that I've spent some time with it. One thing that I noticed that makes it MUCH easier to use for me is putting a "standard" battery in it. My 14500 is protected and is a good 2mm longer than a "regular" battery - this makes pressing more difficult and the light harder to operate. Putting a L91 cell in it makes operating the D10 easier. 

Of course... the LF5XT doesn't have this problem, and the switch is consistent every time, regardless what I feed it, and it's much easier to use (especially in a cigar grip)... so the LiteFlux is still my favorite. :thumbsup:


----------



## Doug (Jul 8, 2008)

Ok, I can not seem to figure out how to change the modes, I can take it in and out of momentary, go to max, and strobe, and even switch between strobes, but not able to go to the other brightness modes.... I looked at the manual, and I guess I am not getting it (of course this sinus headache does not help, and the heat!) ... ahem.... so, anyone care to re-word the manual for me, as far as changing brightness modes?

Doug

Edit: Ok.... turn light on, double click for next mode... now to figure out have to make the lowest mode 1%, and the highest 100%.... Suggestions?

Edit: Say after me "youtube is good, Youtube is good"!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tAj_mAOmOo&feature=related


----------



## Doug (Jul 10, 2008)

Is it possible to change the strobe (or beacon) to 1 flash, at lowest brightness, instead of two, at what appears to be 50%? So it's like the locator strobe/beacon on the HDS/Novatac's.... also, how long would the battery last in that mode? Thanks.

Doug


----------



## Norm (Jul 10, 2008)

Doug said:


> Is it possible to change the strobe (or beacon) to 1 flash, at lowest brightness, instead of two, at what appears to be 50%? So it's like the locator strobe/beacon on the HDS/Novatac's.... also, how long would the battery last in that mode? Thanks.
> 
> Doug


Yes, 3 X C & PH, now PH and each time you PH the function will change, there is a single flash function, now 2 X C (this will step down the brightness) keep 2 X C until you get to the lowest setting 3 X C & PH now you have set one memory to low beacon mode.
I find it much easier if I think about this light as having 5 independent memories, you are able to set any mode and any brightness to 1 of the memories.


> How long would it last?


 I have no idea.
Norm

EDIT just been watching the LED in this mode, it never fully switches off the LED is still glowing between flashes, also noticed that when you turn the light off it doesn't shut right off right away but has a slowly dimming very faint glow before it totally goes off.


----------



## nanotech17 (Jul 10, 2008)

i just found out that from OFF position you can access to multi strobe by performing *2xC & H* quickly.
That's


----------



## WadeF (Jul 10, 2008)

I hope my LF5XT shows up tomorrow.  I feel so left out. :mecry:


----------



## Norm (Jul 10, 2008)

nanotech17 said:


> i just found out that from OFF position you can access to multi strobe by performing *2xC & H* quickly.
> That's


1 C turns on and then you go into the 1 C PH and that is the documented strobe mode, it's in the book.
Norm


----------



## nanotech17 (Jul 10, 2008)

Norm said:


> 1 C turns on and then you go into the 1 C PH and that is the documented strobe mode, it's in the book.
> Norm



That's correct Norm.
But you can also access it while the LF5XT being in OFF position without turning it ON


----------



## nanotech17 (Jul 10, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I hope my LF5XT shows up tomorrow.  I feel so left out. :mecry:



Hang in there WadeF,
It's worth the wait & it's worth the trip as well


----------



## Sir Lightalot (Jul 10, 2008)

Sorry for the crappy point n' shoot pics-


----------



## Sir Lightalot (Jul 10, 2008)

I have some questions maybe you guys can help me with:

1.Mode memory by default is off right? Meaning than if mode #1 is set to 100%, any time you turn the light off then back on you'll end up there right? Or maybe i have this mixed up somehow because my unit always stays on the same mode unless you change it with a 2xC then it will stay on that mode.

2.Sometimes my light locks up in max or strobe and no amount of clicking changes it until you unscrew the head or tail. It's really weird and one time it randomly went into brightness setting mode by itself. Twice its turned on in my pocket and wouldn't turn off. I've tightened the tail but not the head yet.

I would really hate for it to be defective or something so any help you guy can give would be great.


----------



## gadgetnerd (Jul 10, 2008)

Mode memory is on by default, meaning that whatever the last brightness setting was, the torch will turn back on at that setting. I disable it, so it always comes on at mode 1 (which I have set to low, so that I always know what I'm going to get when i turn it on at night).

Your other problem sounds similar to that mentioned here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/200566, and was fixed by tightening either the the head retaining ring or the tail retaining ring.


----------



## Doug (Jul 10, 2008)

Hey! This worked... now it's like the Novatac, but it's a mode you have to go to, rather than the mode the light goes into when you turn it off (which is a pain with the Novatac if you set it down next to you to go to sleep!)

Ok, now my 1st mode is 50% power, then %1 power (I assume), then I have 3 different strobes.... the boudle flash, then SOS, then the new one I set... so I have 2 light levels now, and 3 stroke levels... uh... ok... ok, someone rewrite that manual 

Doug



Norm said:


> Yes, 3 X C & PH, now PH and each time you PH the function will change, there is a single flash function, now 2 X C (this will step down the brightness) keep 2 X C until you get to the lowest setting 3 X C & PH now you have set one memory to low beacon mode.
> I find it much easier if I think about this light as having 5 independent memories, you are able to set any mode and any brightness to 1 of the memories. I have no idea.
> Norm
> 
> EDIT just been watching the LED in this mode, it never fully switches off the LED is still glowing between flashes, also noticed that when you turn the light off it doesn't shut right off right away but has a slowly dimming very faint glow before it totally goes off.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Jul 10, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I hope my LF5XT shows up tomorrow.  I feel so left out. :mecry:


You feel left out,I have yet to order mine:candle: It's getting close though 

Hope you get it soon.


----------



## orcinus (Jul 10, 2008)

Sir Lightalot said:


> Sorry for the crappy point n' shoot pics-
> **some decidedly non-crappy pics**



Hey, what's the funky green stuff around the button?
(i'm going slowly nuts... my LF5XT is _still _on its way, as is my D10 )


----------



## Doug (Jul 10, 2008)

Are those GID rings? Where did you get them from?



Sir Lightalot said:


> Sorry for the crappy point n' shoot pics-


----------



## 45/70 (Jul 10, 2008)

OK, gentlemen (possibly ladies too?). I have a question. How do you change modes 4 and 5 to "constant brightness" modes? In Khoo's sales thread it seems to be possible, but I've read and re-read the instructions and don't see anywhere how to achieve this. Obviously, I'm trying to make the 5 "modes" five different brightness levels. Maybe my interpretation was incorrect?

If this has been covered somewhere else, I apologize, and will go to my room without any dinner (but my LF5 XT! ). I did skim all the relevant threads though, and couldn't find any reference to doing this.

Thanks,

Dave


----------



## orcinus (Jul 10, 2008)

According to the manual (well, the PDF version i've downloaded, anyway - my LF5XT still hasn't arrived):



> 6. PH : Next output style , there are four different styles can be
> chosen . Brightness -> Strobe -> Beacon -> SOS -> Brightness
> in serial .



(while in Setting Mode, of course)


----------



## 45/70 (Jul 10, 2008)

orcinus said:


> According to the manual (well, the PDF version i've downloaded, anyway - my LF5XT still hasn't arrived):
> (while in Setting Mode, of course)



Thanks orcinus! That does in fact work! Mission accomplished! :thumbsup:

I hope you get yours soon. It really is pretty cool!

Dave


----------



## Sir Lightalot (Jul 10, 2008)

Doug said:


> Are those GID rings? Where did you get them from?



I thought you'd never ask :devil: 

They are these GITD tail caps from DX. I cut the top off and flipped them upside down-Perfect fit! Mine don't glow particularly well though but maybe i got duds. But either way It's pretty cool.


----------



## Doug (Jul 10, 2008)

PDF manual? Where?



orcinus said:


> According to the manual (well, the PDF version i've downloaded, anyway - my LF5XT still hasn't arrived):
> 
> 
> 
> (while in Setting Mode, of course)


----------



## ackbar (Jul 11, 2008)

Sir Lightalot said:


> I thought you'd never ask :devil:
> 
> They are these GITD tail caps from DX. I cut the top off and flipped them upside down-Perfect fit! Mine don't glow particularly well though but maybe i got duds. But either way It's pretty cool.



You arn't alone. The Glow-fu on the DX stuff is beyond weak. That or I have been spoiled by the glowinc stuff


----------



## ackbar (Jul 11, 2008)

Doug said:


> PDF manual? Where?



excellent review here
http://www.light-reviews.com/liteflux_lf5xt/review.html

manual here
http://www.light-reviews.com/liteflux_lf5xt/LF5XT_operation_manual.pdf


----------



## TooManyGizmos (Jul 11, 2008)

..
..On that Manual link .........

Ya have to scroll half way down to find English .... but it's there.

Just keep looking
.


----------



## ackbar (Jul 11, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> ..
> ..On that Manual link .........
> 
> Ya have to scroll half way down to find English .... but it's there.
> ...




What?? you guys can't read chinese? you buy enough of their lights


----------



## alibaba (Jul 11, 2008)

ackbar said:


> What?? you guys can't read chinese? you buy enough of their lights


 

當然我們可以讀中文


----------



## tpchan (Jul 12, 2008)

Well my LF5XT finally arrived yesterday (shipped from Khoo on 20080701), and after playing with it for the better part of the night :naughty: I can say it is a very nice light. The natural HAIII finish is flawless and the light is very well machined for fit. The beam pattern is superb -- no cree rings and is very white in tint. No green to it at all and only a slight amount of purple is visible, very white and maybe the whitest light I own now. Programming it was easy (well at least as easy as a 120P or LF2X). I've done the factory reset many times and then checked the level outputs and I swear my factory default levels are 50%, 25% and 2% for the constant settings, when they are supposed to be 50, 15 and 2. The whining noise from the light is definitely noticeable at 100%, 50% and even 25%. Used it with the Energizer AA lithium that Khoo graciously included and also tried a gray Ultrafire 14500 LiIon, which was tight but still fit and worked just fine too! The light does appear to be brighter when using the 14500 than the 1.5V AA's. The light is at least as bright as my 120P and is probably much brighter but I'm just eyeballing it here and I don't have a light meter to get a real reading. The included lanyard is nice and functional and I'll use it on my light. I did program out the annoying SOS mode. I tried replacing it with a really nasty strobe mode but then decided that I really didn't need that eiither since the random strobe is only a 1xC,PH away. I think this light will clearly take the place of my NDI in the EDC rotation.


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## Burgess (Jul 13, 2008)

*I swear my factory default levels are 50%, 25% and 2% for the constant settings, when they are supposed to be 50, 15 and 2.*



Ahhh, interesting.


Thank you for the report.



Any verification from LiteFlux or Khoo ?


:candle:
_


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## h.g.trunnion (Jul 14, 2008)

Yes, same with my lamp: 50%, 25%, 2%. Mine is from the second charge.

BTW: I think this stepping is quite nice, although I changed it just the other way round: 2%, 25%, 50%.

The 100% is available anyway, through PH in any mode, or when the light is out. Same to random strobe: even if the light is off, just C+PH gives you the strobe!
And this without setting momentary to on in the special function menu! 

I love this perfect light and would like to create a new abbrviation for my use: EMC (with M for minute instead of the usual 'day', because that best describes, how I handle my lamp).

Norbert


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 14, 2008)

Did you confirm the brightness by 3C-PH, and then 5C to get a report of the brightness setting?


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## ackbar (Jul 14, 2008)

alibaba said:


> 當然我們可以讀中文




Damn! I didn't think anyone would call me on that one. I recognize 2 of those words... I think..


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## tpchan (Jul 14, 2008)

gadgetnerd said:


> Did you confirm the brightness by 3C-PH, and then 5C to get a report of the brightness setting?


Yes, I did, several times. I do a factory reset of the LF5XT, then get to the 2nd default level which is supposed to be 15%, do the 3C-PH and then 5C and it blinks 2 then 5 every time. So straight from the factory and Khoo's 2nd shipment of July 1, my LF5XT has factory defaults of 50, 25, 2, instead of 50, 15, 2. This is all fine by me, and I'm not complaining. Just thought other CPF'ers would like to know about this "glitch" in the factory default settings.


----------



## WadeF (Jul 14, 2008)

Finally got my natural finish LF5XT! Interesting light. Initial impressions are the bezel is SHARP. If you had to wack someone with this thing, OUCH. 

The cigar grip feels nice. The finish is superb.

I like the press and hold for max, which is putting out more overall light than my EX10. (running everything on AW lithium ion's)

The click, press and hold for strobe is neat too. 

Now to reprogram this sucker.


----------



## LED-holic (Jul 14, 2008)

Let's see some pix Wade!!

My LF5XT has me all mixed up. While I was hoping to love it, like I did with the D10 when I first got it, the LF5XT has yet to give me that warm and fuzzy feeling. I hope over time I'll warm up to the light.

Programming the light is an education in itself. I've switched on momentary, which I like because I crave the instant on that all the other lights I have offer.

Still trying to nail down the # of settings I prefer and the brightness in each mode. There are somethings I really like about this light, and somethings I dislike or need to get used to.

Overall I need more time with this light to learn it and try to see if I like it as much or more than my D10...


----------



## WadeF (Jul 14, 2008)

The programming is interesting, but it's easier than the LF2 I find, because I hate that twisting stuff, as I sometimes miss. It's hard to miss clicking a button. 

I have mine set for 3 modes at the moment, min, 25%, and 100%. 

I like that I can turn on in low, and PH for max, let go and I'm back to low. I can always turn it on in min, and always turn it on in MAX. 

I like the 5 clicks for a voltage report, that's slick. I'm running a AW 14500.


----------



## LED-holic (Jul 14, 2008)

Trying to set the lights to 3 modes was getting me nowhere. I was getting angry and ready to smash the LF5XT to bits.

I took a break and searched for an answer, and found this to be the solution:



45/70 said:


> clintb,
> 
> My original post is not very clear. I'll have to edit it.
> 
> ...


This light is not for the timid and those fearful of gadgets!!

EDIT to add: I don't know how or why, but setting the light to 3 modes wiped out my momentary setting. I have to go back and set it again... *sigh*...

:green:


----------



## gunga (Jul 14, 2008)

Hey guys, I've gotten pretty good ta programming my LF5XT from memory, so here's my offer.

A free LF5XT programmingv service!

Send me your light with return postage, and I will program it to whatever you want!

End hours of frustration as well as broken lights (See comment above about smashing light).

What do you think?



:nana:


----------



## LED-holic (Jul 14, 2008)

LOL Gunga, that's very kind of you.

:thumbsup:

I think I've got mine set to how I like it. Changing modes and functions will not be fun, but hopefully I won't have to do it again soon...


----------



## Slorg (Jul 14, 2008)

Hi there,

seems like this is one amazing flashlight. Too bad I just ordered a EX10 and recently got a TK10 and can't spend all my money on flashlights. 

But wait - I'll have 2 123A lights then. So I "need" a nice AA light, right? Well, maybe... oh no, I think I'm getting addicted :devil:


----------



## LED-holic (Jul 14, 2008)

Welcome to CPF, Slorg. I think you made the right choice getting the EX10 and TK10 first. You'll get a feel for those simpler lights and work your way up to more complex lights like the LiteFlux lights.

I still have yet to program my LF2X because it's not so easy. 

I like the LF5XT with 3 modes, low, 30%, 100%. I also have momentary set on, but I lose the instant brightness feature, and the random strobe feature as well. 

You can't have it all, I guess, with this light. Close, but not all...


----------



## TITAN1833 (Jul 14, 2008)

slorg :welcome: what no AA light,put that right immediatley and buy a LF5XT or leave CPF.
J.K have a great stay.


----------



## Slorg (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks guys! :wave:

I heard alot about the LF5XT and i think i can't stand the pressure too long. 

I had the P2D CE before (sold it to my brother and got the TK10) and have several Maglites (3D, 6D, AAA Minimag, AA Minimag). 

So i have a AA light, but i won't use it anymore.  

I won't buy the LF5XT right now because my EX10 is still on its way but i think it's gonna be my next light.


----------



## WadeF (Jul 14, 2008)

I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out, but I was studing the beam from the LF5XT. It's interesting, because it looks good and doesn't have that dark halo around the hot spot we are used to with Cree based lights. However, I see what is going on, the dark halo is there, but it's being projected towards the outter edge of the beam. It isn't as noticeable, but it's there, but where it is makes it less of an issue. Under normal use you'd probably rarely notice it, since it's near the edge of the spill where you wouldn't be looking. When you have the dark halo around the hot spot it's more annoying because it's in the center of the beam where you are looking.

It is a pretty tight beam those and doesn't offer very wide spill, so if you are walking with it and shine it at the ground infront of you, it won't light up as wide as an area as other small EDC lights like a Fenix P2D, Nitecore EX10/D10, etc. However, you don't have the cree ring.


----------



## selfbuilt (Jul 14, 2008)

Working on my review ... 

But a quick question - has anyone tried turning off the low voltage battery protection feature (i.e. overdischarge protection)? I've gone and changed it in the functions menu (i.e. enter into function mode, switch over to #2 over-discharge, enter it, and reset to 1Hz/Off insead of 2Hz/On), saved and exited, but it's still shutting down when my NiMH reach the cut-off voltage. :thinking:

The setting seems to be saving, because when I go back in it remembers where I had set it last time (default was on in my sample). But the feature is remaining on.

Anyone else give it a try yet?


----------



## gadgetnerd (Jul 15, 2008)

Can't wait to see your review selfbuilt.

Mine came with battery protection disabled, I switched it on and it works as advertised. I haven't tried to disable it again.



selfbuilt said:


> Working on my review ...
> 
> But a quick question - has anyone tried turning off the low voltage battery protection feature (i.e. overdischarge protection)? I've gone and changed it in the functions menu (i.e. enter into function mode, switch over to #2 over-discharge, enter it, and reset to 1Hz/Off insead of 2Hz/On), saved and exited, but it's still shutting down when my NiMH reach the cut-off voltage. :thinking:
> 
> ...


----------



## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

Yaaay! My LF5XT's finally arrived! 
I'm off to play with it (to work, actually, but i'm bringing it with me), but firstly, a few comments.

1. Mine shuts down if dropped on the tail too (with the included Energizer Lithium - thanks Khoo!), but i don't see it as much of a problem - if it starts to bother me, i'll try putting a washer between the spring and the battery...

2. Mine whines at high brightness settings, but it's really not that annoying (not a very high frequency) nor loud (you have to put it near your ear to hear it) - after working with flashguns, this is nothing... 

3. The frequency settings are inverted (at least the way i see it): going down increases it, going up decreases it. So it's really a period setting, not a frequency setting. Also, took me awhile to find out that the double-flash beacon frequency settings follow the single-flash ones.

4. Low could've been lower.

5. Love the beam, but i've noticed one interesting thing about the emitter - the phosphor has a VERY strong afterglow! Haven't seen it in any other Cree's before (yellow or silver core - the LF5XT is silver, in case anyone's interested).

6. It's MUCH nicer and MUCH smaller in real life than on the photos. P1D looks downright chunky next to it and it's only 3 cm shorter. I expected a much bigger difference. Some comparison shots follow...


Left to right - Fenix P1D, LF5XT, Fenix P3D, AAA Mag, AA Mag, Dosun R5, Streamlight Twin-Task 3C-UV, 2D Mag, Imagine Ray 3C stainless steel:








Just the smaller lights (Fenix P1D, LF5XT, Fenix P3D, AAA Mag, AA Mag, Dosun R5):






Sorry for the c*appy quality, i was in a hurry so i couldn't do it with a proper camera


----------



## LED Cool (Jul 15, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out, but I was studing the beam from the LF5XT. It's interesting, because it looks good and doesn't have that dark halo around the hot spot we are used to with Cree based lights. However, I see what is going on, the dark halo is there, but it's being projected towards the outter edge of the beam. It isn't as noticeable, but it's there, but where it is makes it less of an issue. Under normal use you'd probably rarely notice it, since it's near the edge of the spill where you wouldn't be looking. When you have the dark halo around the hot spot it's more annoying because it's in the center of the beam where you are looking.



interesting observation there, WadeF


Selfbuilt,
your LF5XT over discharge protection was not turn on at all when i shipped it out. once you have save your setting by 3C + PH, you exit the special function menu by 3C only.

i also noticed the factory default setting for mode 1,2 & 3 has been changed to 50%, 25%, 2%. may be LiteFlux changed it. 

khoo


----------



## mr.snakeman (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Yaaay! My LF5XT's finally arrived!
> I'm off to play with it (to work, actually, but i'm bringing it with me), but firstly, a few comments.
> 
> 1. Mine shuts down if dropped on the tail too (with the included Energizer Lithium - thanks Khoo!), but i don't see it as much of a problem - if it starts to bother me, i'll try putting a washer between the spring and the battery...
> ...


Glad you finally got your light- got mine yesterday as well. 1. mine too. 2. mine is silent, even with an AW 14500. 5. yep, mine too. Nice to see that it is possible to "reflector shape" away the dreaded Cree doughnut. Good work LiteFlux.


----------



## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

Did the first batch of LF5XT's ship with the errata page too? The one outlining the memory setting?

@WadeF: I'm not 100% sure that's what happened with the dark halo, because most other Cree lights have a dark halo near the edge of the beam too. They have both - a ring around the hotspot + a ring near the edge. LF5XT seems to have just the one near the edge.


----------



## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

What the... 

This will probably sound crazy to a lot of people, but... Well... How would i put this. Did anyone else notice their LF5XT senses the ambient light?

It won't allow you to turn it on if the ambient light is too high (as in broad daylight high)! :duh2:

Is it using the emitter to sense that in some way?


----------



## f22shift (Jul 15, 2008)

WadeF said:


> It is a pretty tight beam those and doesn't offer very wide spill, so if you are walking with it and shine it at the ground infront of you, it won't light up as wide as an area as other small EDC lights like a Fenix P2D, Nitecore EX10/D10, etc. However, you don't have the cree ring.


 
does it throw farther?


----------



## HKJ (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> This will probably sound crazy to a lot of people, but... Well... How would i put this. Did anyone else notice their LF5XT senses the ambient light?
> 
> It won't allow you to turn it on if the ambient light is too high (as in broad daylight high)! :duh2:
> 
> Is it using the emitter to sense that in some way?



I just tried with mine, I did not have sunshine but used a 20 watt halogen bulb at 2 cm distance, it did not prevent it from turning on.

Leds do generate a small voltage when hit by light, the curves I have posted with pwm output from some lights was done with a led as sensor.
This voltage might confuse the circuit and prevent the microprocessor from working correct.


----------



## Kilovolt (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> What the...
> 
> This will probably sound crazy to a lot of people, but... Well... How would i put this. Did anyone else notice their LF5XT senses the ambient light?
> 
> ...


 
I've just tried with mine (received yesterday) and it comes on regularly also in full sunshine. :thinking:


----------



## selfbuilt (Jul 15, 2008)

LED Cool said:


> Selfbuilt,
> your LF5XT over discharge protection was not turn on at all when i shipped it out. once you have save your setting by 3C + PH, you exit the special function menu by 3C only.
> 
> i also noticed the factory default setting for mode 1,2 & 3 has been changed to 50%, 25%, 2%. may be LiteFlux changed it.


Hi Khoo, 

Thanks, I had noticed that the settings were now 50-25-2%, so I did a reset of the light before starting runtimes (and they stayed at these levels). This may be what turned the over-discharge protection back on.

But I went into the menus to turn it off as you describe (i.e. 3C + PH to save function, then 3C to exit menu), but it still seemed to be turned on. Perhaps something went wrong when I exited - I'll try it again after my next runtime to see if it's really off (I don't leave drained NiMH lying around, so I have limited opportunity to test it out ).

*EDIT:* No dice - I've tested it repeatedly, and the over-protection circuit will not disengage. I can enter the function menu and set it to off (i.e. 1Hz flash), but the over-protection continues to come on with a near-depleted NiMH (I don't have unprotected 14500 to test). The function setting *is* being remembered, and when I re-enter the mode it correctly shows on or off as I last saved it. Note that the other function modes all work fine - momentary on/off works perfectly, as does the reset function. 

Anyone else test the over-protection?


----------



## matrixshaman (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> What the...
> 
> This will probably sound crazy to a lot of people, but... Well... How would i put this. Did anyone else notice their LF5XT senses the ambient light?
> 
> ...



There was another case of a different light doing something like this recently. I can't recall which one or where but I believe it was determined that it was a defect in the circuit initiated by the small voltage an LED generates wehn exposed to bright light. Of course depending on your mindset it could either be a defect or a feature 

If you turn it on with your hand over it or in darkness I assume it will stay on even in bright sunlight? If so it doesn't sound like a serious problem but it's your call on whether it's a problem for you.


----------



## ackbar (Jul 15, 2008)

I received mine today!

Boy are my thumbs tired. 

Initial though is that it is a very nice light. I like how the threads are all anodized. My biggest beef with my other lights is how gritty the head twisting motion required to change modes was. All of my Fenixes eventually wore to a point where it was buttery smooth but took a while. My NDI has yet to get to that point despite being my EDC for the last 7 months.

I don't know about anyone else.. but I'm having difficulty operating the switch. I guess I'm just used to the rubber domes and a lot more travel in the actual switching mechanism.

Does anyone have a list of all the various strobe/beacon freq?


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## kaichu dento (Jul 15, 2008)

Mistaken post


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## GBH2 (Jul 15, 2008)

I just got mine - I'm loving it so far!

I took a couple of quicky comparison pictures if anyone is interested.

(Left to Right) - Jet II IBS, EX10, D10, LF5XT




LF5XT (Hi) from 1 meter (AW 14500)




(Left to Right) - D10, Jet II IBS, LF5XT (Hi) - 1 meter (AW 14500,RCR123)


 


(Left to Right) - D10, LF5XT (Hi) - From 1 meter (AW 14500)




I find while it doesn't have a huge spill beam - it does have a very bright and useful spill. The beam is white with a slight warm tint (exactly as I requested from Khoo). I find the "clicky" very easy to press but with just the right amount of tactile feedback. 

So far this is a really nice light!


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## Rogerg (Jul 15, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> Hi Khoo,
> 
> Thanks, I had noticed that the settings were now 50-25-2%, so I did a reset of the light before starting runtimes (and they stayed at these levels). This may be what turned the over-discharge protection back on.
> 
> ...


I have just tried over-discharge with mine on and off with nimh. The light seems normal in that it shuts down at somewhere over .8 and under .9 volts by taking the battery out as quick as possible after shut down and checking voltage. This is with and old battery and not much charge so voltage did not hold up long.
I see that the lights operating range is 1 to 4.5 volts, so I would not expect it to work much below 1 volt. 
Roger


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## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> If you turn it on with your hand over it or in darkness I assume it will stay on even in bright sunlight? If so it doesn't sound like a serious problem but it's your call on whether it's a problem for you.



Ayup. Cover it with a hand or put it in a pocket, turn it on - works. Put it in the sunshine, works. Turn it off, leave it in sunshine, try to turn it on again - won't turn on.

The thing is, the threshold seems to be perfectly tuned: it prevents the switch-on at EXACTLY the ambient light intensity that would make it's output pointless anyway. That's why i thought it actually may be an intentional function.

So, anyway, sounds like a feature to me, and a pretty nifty one


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## LED-holic (Jul 15, 2008)

Very interesting orcinus...

Anyone else also notice that when you turn off the light, the LED slowly fades to black over 5-6 seconds?

No other LED light I have does this...


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## LED-holic (Jul 15, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> ...*EDIT:* No dice - I've tested it repeatedly, and the over-protection circuit will not disengage. I can enter the function menu and set it to off (i.e. 1Hz flash), but the over-protection continues to come on with a near-depleted NiMH (I don't have unprotected 14500 to test). The function setting *is* being remembered, and when I re-enter the mode it correctly shows on or off as I last saved it. Note that the other function modes all work fine - momentary on/off works perfectly, as does the reset function.
> 
> Anyone else test the over-protection?


It would appear some of these lights have some software bugs... 

I also noted that my momentary "on" setting got turned off when I changed the # of modes for the light. Maybe there are undocumented features or bugs that keep turning on your battery protection setting??


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## LED-holic (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> What the...
> 
> This will probably sound crazy to a lot of people, but... Well... How would i put this. Did anyone else notice their LF5XT senses the ambient light?
> 
> ...


I took my LF5XT out in the bright daylight sun, and tested this. It comes on in dark or in sunlight, no difference.

I wonder if there's some type of other circuity failure that makes it appear as if sunlight is causing your light to not turn on. It it was me I'd get it replaced, as I'm wary of having my lights not turn on when I tell it to. Not good for reliability.


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## GBH2 (Jul 15, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> Very interesting orcinus...
> 
> Anyone else also notice that when you turn off the light, the LED slowly fades to black over 5-6 seconds?
> 
> No other LED light I have does this...



Yes, mine slowly fades out after I turn it off. I would be curious to know if everyone's does this - maybe the MCU just has a large capacitor which discharges.


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## GBH2 (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Ayup. Cover it with a hand or put it in a pocket, turn it on - works. Put it in the sunshine, works. Turn it off, leave it in sunshine, try to turn it on again - won't turn on.
> 
> The thing is, the threshold seems to be perfectly tuned: it prevents the switch-on at EXACTLY the ambient light intensity that would make it's output pointless anyway. That's why i thought it actually may be an intentional function.
> 
> So, anyway, sounds like a feature to me, and a pretty nifty one



Could it possibly be some kind of overheat protection kicking in from leaving it out in the sun? It seems pretty unlikely that there is a light sensor built in.


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## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

GBH2 said:


> Yes, mine slowly fades out after I turn it off. I would be curious to know if everyone's does this - maybe the MCU just has a large capacitor which discharges.



Mine does this too. I've mentioned it somewhere above, but no one seems to have reacted to the remark.

Regarding sunlight - tried it a dozen more times and it seems pretty reliable. In fact, i've tried shining another lite on the emitter and it takes a P3D at Turbo, point blank, _directly_ into center to provoke the same effect. I don't know, i really find it useful and don't have a feeling it will cause any problems in the future. 

Khoo? Any comments or further info on this phenomenon?

In the meantime, here's another shot next to another black gadget 
Nicely illustrates how small the light really is, even though the Suunto Core is a bit on the humongous side


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## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

GBH2 said:


> Could it possibly be some kind of overheat protection kicking in from leaving it out in the sun? It seems pretty unlikely that there is a light sensor built in.



Nope. It happens _the moment_ you put it in the sunlight. And stops happening _the moment_ you put it in the shade. Also, i can provoke it with a "cold" light source too (another LED light). So i don't think it has anything to do with temperature...

Like others have stated, you do get a voltage from an LED if you shine a light into it, so the emitter is most definitely the "sensor" in this case. The question is, whether it was intentional or not. 

Could it be specific to the latest batch? How many of you guys who've tried it and couldn't replicate the behaviour in the sunlight are from the last batch Khoo sent out?


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## LED-holic (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Nope. It happens _the moment_ you put it in the sunlight. And stops happening _the moment_ you put it in the shade. Also, i can provoke it with a "cold" light source too (another LED light). So i don't think it has anything to do with temperature...
> 
> Like others have stated, you do get a voltage from an LED if you shine a light into it, so the emitter is most definitely the "sensor" in this case. The question is, whether it was intentional or not.
> 
> Could it be specific to the latest batch? How many of you guys who've tried it and couldn't replicate the behaviour in the sunlight are from the last batch Khoo sent out?


That is a bizarre reaction, and I speculate it has very little to do with any ambient light sensor, rather some circuity looseness which is causing the circuit to open or close depending on the energy of the light hitting it.

As long as you're happy with it that's fine. But I'd be worried this is a symptom of a problem that could get worse over time, and the light may not turn on down the road in various random situations when you are expecting it to turn on.

Fortunately my light behaves as its expected to, or I'd have to send it back for warranty repair / replacement. A light not turning on when I press the "on" button is not something I could live with.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 15, 2008)

Anyone tried sticking the LF5XT with a pin,just to rule out the chance they are alive :naughty:
Khoo I have one ordered can you ship mine in a cage just in case
seriously though I hope these bugs are ironed out soon :thumbsup:


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## LED-holic (Jul 15, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Anyone tried sticking the LF5XT with a pin,just to rule out the chance they are alive :naughty:
> Khoo I have one ordered can you ship mine in a cage just in case
> seriously though I hope these bugs are ironed out soon :thumbsup:


LOL, I was going to post this but decided not to in my last post:

PS *orcinus*, your name wouldn't happen to be John Connor, would it? Maybe you've got a Terminator droid sensor posing as a LF5XT that's tracking your every movement, and waiting for that perfect moment to terminate you?

Better get to Sarah Conner quick and figure out how to destroy this insidiously smart light!!


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## GBH2 (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Mine does this too. I've mentioned it somewhere above, but no one seems to have reacted to the remark.
> 
> Regarding sunlight - tried it a dozen more times and it seems pretty reliable. In fact, i've tried shining another lite on the emitter and it takes a P3D at Turbo, point blank, _directly_ into center to provoke the same effect. I don't know, i really find it useful and don't have a feeling it will cause any problems in the future.
> 
> ...



Great picture! Makes me want to order a black one now, too.


> Nope. It happens _the moment_ you put it in the sunlight. And stops happening _the moment_ you put it in the shade. Also, i can provoke it with a "cold" light source too (another LED light). So i don't think it has anything to do with temperature...
> 
> Like others have stated, you do get a voltage from an LED if you shine a light into it, so the emitter is most definitely the "sensor" in this case. The question is, whether it was intentional or not.
> 
> Could it be specific to the latest batch? How many of you guys who've tried it and couldn't replicate the behaviour in the sunlight are from the last batch Khoo sent out?



I just got mine, sent July 2, and I tried shining other lights into it and it always turns on. I agree with LED-holic that it could be a bug but Good Luck!


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## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> PS *orcinus*, your name wouldn't happen to be John Connor, would it? Maybe you've got a Terminator droid sensor posing as a LF5XT that's tracking your every movement, and waiting for that perfect moment to terminate you?



LOL :laughing:
Nope, but i'll keep an eye on the emitter nevertheless... If it turns red, i'm throwing it in the smelting furnace


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## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

Ooooooh-kaaaaaay... This is getting SERIOUSLY weird and a bit spooky. :duh2:

It seems my LF5XT either has a mind of it's own or a different firmware than the rest of them.

I've just noticed mine has an accidental-click avoidance function of some sort built in. If i don't do anything with it (i.e. leave it off) for 15 seconds or more (i've timed it many times - it's EXACTLY 15 seconds), it takes ONE click to "unlock" it, then a SECOND click to switch it on. If you wait for 15 seconds between the "unlock" and switch-on, it re-locks.

100% burst (PH) from off, random strobe (C+PH) from off and momentary mode override the "feature", as expected. Which would lead me to believe it's not a bug, but an intentional feature.


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## GBH2 (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Ooooooh-kaaaaaay... This is getting SERIOUSLY weird and a bit spooky. :duh2:
> 
> It seems my LF5XT either has a mind of it's own or a different firmware than the rest of them.
> 
> ...



Mine does the same thing. But I can get it to turn on with one click after 15 seconds if I click it just right - Full press and don't press it for too long or too short a time.


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## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

GBH2 said:


> Mine does the same thing. But I can get it to turn on with one click after 15 seconds if I click it just right - Full press and don't press it for too long or too short a time.



I think that just causes a "bounce" (since the button plate is balancing on a much smaller switch, it rocks a little) - in fact resulting in two switch activations in short sequence.

I can reproduce it by rocking the button quickly (by swiping the finger over it instead of pushing perpendicularly to its surface).


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## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

Just measured the strobe frequency range... Goes from 6 to 32 Hz.
PWM frequency is out of range of my tachometer, which makes it >3333 Hz.

Two additional tidbits, in case someone doesn't know about them:

1) the beacon frequency range is split into two subranges - first's single flash (blink-wait-blink-wait), the second double flash (blink-blink-wait-blink-blink-wait)

2) if you ramp the strobe frequency all the way down then push a little further (additional two or three clicks) you get to the random strobe setting


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## LED-holic (Jul 15, 2008)

Damn, is this light waaaay smarter than LiteFlux is letting on?

Is it going to be able to make coffee soon?

***spoooky***

I see this light being part of the "Transformer 2" movie. This light is going to be a smart little critter than can do a lot more than just light you up...  :huh:


EDIT: I tested my light, and no such "lock out" after 15 seconds. Glad it doesn't act that way. I don't need my light to decide when it's going to lock out.


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## Sir Lightalot (Jul 15, 2008)

Mine turns on in the sunlight fine. It also has the locking thing but it must be a lot longer than 15 sec because i can only reproduce it after a long time. Emitter afterglow is present on mine too.


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## orcinus (Jul 15, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> Glad it doesn't act that way. I don't need my light to decide when it's going to lock out.



Note that you can override it with the instant-on shortcuts and momentary mode. So the decision is still user's 

BTW, something just occurred to me. I haven't checked if the "bright sunshine" lockup-bug-"feature"-thingy happens in momentary, nor whether PH and C+PH from off override it.

Edit: Ha. I've just tried to provoke it to lock up by shining the P3D into the emitter and i can't. I think i mistook the 15 second lock-out thing for the sunshine lock-up earlier... I'll be smarter in the morning, i guess. Anyways, just played a little with it at 100% on my balcony and YIKES! This thing throws much farther than P1D or P3D, even on a measly 1.5V alkaline!


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## LED-holic (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Note that you can override it with the instant-on shortcuts and momentary mode. So the decision is still user's
> 
> BTW, something just occurred to me. I haven't checked if the "bright sunshine" lockup-bug-"feature"-thingy happens in momentary, nor whether PH and C+PH from off override it.
> 
> Edit: Ha. I've just tried to provoke it to lock up by shining the P3D into the emitter and i can't. I think i mistook the 15 second lock-out thing for the sunshine lock-up earlier... I'll be smarter in the morning, i guess. Anyways, just played a little with it at 100% on my balcony and YIKES! This thing throws much farther than P1D or P3D, even on a measly 1.5V alkaline!


Good thoughts. I tested the lock-out both with momentary off and on, no difference.

I had tested the "sun lock-out" earlier with momentary on. After your post I went outside and tested with momentary off.

At first I had it on the lowest setting, so it seemed to me that the light was indeed turning on in the shade and off in the sunlight. I decided to turn up the brightness to medium and max, and could verify that the light is not affected by the sun. The low might have seemed that way because the lower output was being drowned out by the sun.

But I do admit I was spooked at first, thinking to myself "what the heck??"

Glad mine is "normal"...


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## Sir Lightalot (Jul 15, 2008)

orcinus said:


> This thing throws much farther than P1D or P3D, even on a measly 1.5V alkaline!


I don't know how that could be possible as it has been measured to be around only 1900 lux wheres as the p3d it over 3000 lux.


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## tpchan (Jul 15, 2008)

Sir Lightalot said:


> I don't know how that could be possible as it has been measured to be around only 1900 lux wheres as the p3d it over 3000 lux.


 Check this review out on http://light-reviews.com/liteflux_lf5xt/review.html, as it clearly states the LF5XT hotspot when using a LiIon 14500 cell is 3570 lux.


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## Sir Lightalot (Jul 16, 2008)

tpchan said:


> Check this review out on http://light-reviews.com/liteflux_lf5xt/review.html, as it clearly states the LF5XT hotspot when using a LiIon 14500 cell is 3570 lux.


 yes, but he said, "even on a measly 1.5V alkaline!"


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## orcinus (Jul 16, 2008)

Sir Lightalot said:


> yes, but he said, "even on a measly 1.5V alkaline!"



I also said "throws", not "shines" 
Meaning it's tighter and more visible at high distances (PxD's beam gets too diffuse too quickly and isn't a good shape).

(P3D is somewhat better on turbo, of course, but heats up pretty quickly, while LF5XT stays manageable)


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## orcinus (Jul 16, 2008)

Ok, i've been exploring that sun lock-out bug some more...

1. If i switch the light on in the shade, switch it off, put it immediately in the sun, then put it immediately back in the shade, it acts as if the 15-second lock-out already occurred, even if <15 seconds has elapsed - in other words, the sun lock-out bug resets the 15 seconds lock-out.

2. PH and C+PH don't work either in the sunlight

3. Momentary doesn't work in the sunlight

4. If the light's in momentary mode, i put it in the sun, click and release the button, then move the light into shade, it will blink once, the moment it transitions from sunshine to shade! In other words, the MCU is active in the sun, acknowledges the keypress and remembers that you did it!


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## LED Cool (Jul 16, 2008)

GBH2 said:


> Yes, mine slowly fades out after I turn it off. I would be curious to know if everyone's does this - maybe the MCU just has a large capacitor which discharges.



the glow is normal because the big and expensive (according to LiteFlux) capacitor, which you can see in the photos of the circuit boards, is discharging itself when the light is turned off.

orcinus,
there is NO automatic button lock feature built into the UI.

i will check on the "bright sunlight direct into LED lock out" issue with LiteFlux.

khoo


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## orcinus (Jul 16, 2008)

LED Cool said:


> orcinus,
> there is NO automatic button lock feature built into the UI.



You mean the 15-second one? It would seem i'm not the only one with that one, so if it's a bug, there's more than one LF5XT affected by it.

Thanks for checking!


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## orcinus (Jul 16, 2008)

Ha! I think i've nailed it!

The bugs are, in fact, related!
It seems that, while the emitter is exposed to light, a cap is charging somewhere. If the voltage on that capacitor exceeds a certain threshold, it first needs to discharge (first click) for the MCU to start functioning properly and lets you switch the light on (second click). Above an even higher threshold, discharging doesn't help and it's completely locked out until you bring it in the shade and click it once.

The thing is, i've just realized the 15 second lock out isn't, actually, a 15 second lock out! 

It seemed like it yesterday because i was in a constantly lit room! But the fact is, the amount of time needed for the lockout varies with the amount of light the emitter is exposed to. In complete darkness it never locks out, no matter how much you wait. In bright light it takes 15 seconds. In even brighter light it's shorter than that.

So it seems like it's most definitely a hardware bug.


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## vhyper007 (Jul 16, 2008)

Hello Again Kool,

I am about to take the plunge (am feeling lucky) but I haven't seen the output in lumens at 100%. Is it published in your literature or have I just overlooked it?

Anyone, please feel free to reply if you know the answer. Also does anyone have regrets having bought it? As I said, I'm feeling lucky.

TIA,
vhyper007


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## HKJ (Jul 16, 2008)

orcinus said:


> It seemed like it yesterday because i was in a constantly lit room! But the fact is, the amount of time needed for the lockout varies with the amount of light the emitter is exposed to. In complete darkness it never locks out, no matter how much you wait. In bright light it takes 15 seconds. In even brighter light it's shorter than that.
> 
> So it seems like it's most definitely a hardware bug.



But it is not present in all LF5XT, I have been trying with the two I have and could not reproduce your problem.


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## orcinus (Jul 16, 2008)

HKJ said:


> But it is not present in all LF5XT...



Yeah, i'm aware of that...
Thanks for checking, by the way!


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## vhyper007 (Jul 16, 2008)

PLEEZ,
somebody tell an elderly country gentleman how many lumens at 100% the LF5XT has.

Kindly,
vhyper007


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## LED-holic (Jul 16, 2008)

vhyper007 said:


> PLEEZ,
> somebody tell an elderly country gentleman how many lumens at 100% the LF5XT has.
> 
> Kindly,
> vhyper007


It's hard to say for sure, but it's slightly brighter than my NiteCore D10 on max, so I'd guess around 140 lumens...


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## GBH2 (Jul 16, 2008)

vhyper007 said:


> PLEEZ,
> somebody tell an elderly country gentleman how many lumens at 100% the LF5XT has.
> 
> Kindly,
> vhyper007



How about some lux readings? - http://www.light-reviews.com/liteflux_lf5xt/review.html


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## GBH2 (Jul 16, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Yeah, i'm aware of that...
> Thanks for checking, by the way!


I cannot seem to replicate the different operation in bright light or darkness. However, there are some interesting things going on - I am hesitant to call them bugs at this point.

I think that the MCU "goes to sleep" to limit drain on the batteries. (I think that this may be resulting in the 15 sec "lockout" we seem to have experienced)

I can turn the light on everytime after 15 seconds with a deliberate full press.(while a casual press (approx. 3/4) will turn it on every time prior to the approx. 15 sec.

I am wondering if the switch is a simple on/off or if it has 2 stages - 1 to wake up the MCU and then to transmit the input to the MCU.

or maybe I am crazy.

Just to be clear to anyone reading this thread - I love this light and I highly recommend it!


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## orcinus (Jul 16, 2008)

GBH2 said:


> I am wondering if the switch is a simple on/off or if it has 2 stages - 1 to wake up the MCU and then to transmit the input to the MCU.



I doubt it's a 2-stage switch, since that would probably require an additional signal path to the head or some kind of a sense resistor (and i can't see anything like that in the circuit board pics Khoo has posted).

It's more likely what you're experiencing is caused by the switch bounce. Switches sometimes "bounce" - a single click rebounds and gets interpreted as two quick, sequential clicks. It gets more pronounced the more force you use when pressing the button.

Just to clarify - i love my LF5XT too! And the way it's acting doesn't really bother me that much. I'm just curious about it's non-standard behaviour.

Edit: I've just kept my LF5XT in _complete _dark for an hour, and guess what! It switched on at the first click! Which confirms my theory.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 17, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> That is a bizarre reaction, and I speculate it has very little to do with any ambient light sensor, rather some circuity looseness which is causing the circuit to open or close depending on the energy of the light hitting it.
> 
> As long as you're happy with it that's fine. But I'd be worried this is a symptom of a problem that could get worse over time, and the light may not turn on down the road in various random situations when you are expecting it to turn on.
> 
> Fortunately my light behaves as its expected to, or I'd have to send it back for warranty repair / replacement. A light not turning on when I press the "on" button is not something I could live with.



I mentioned elsewhere or above that this has been found in another type of light and was determined to be the LED putting a voltage into the circuit. LED's DO create a voltage output if there is enough light on them. Personally I think it's cool enough to be called a feature - and orcinus is just lucky to be one of the few with it. I'd probably hang on to it but if anything else got strange I'd see about sending it back.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 17, 2008)

BTW - got mine today - this light is AMAZING in so many ways. :twothumbs
to Khoo and Liteflux!


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 17, 2008)

:naughty: .. I really think some of you guys are just *Tapping* your button to quickly. Slow down and push it more deliberatly and firmly on the first turn-on push. See if that clears up the *NO response* on the first push.



orcinus said:


> Ooooooh-kaaaaaay... This is getting SERIOUSLY weird and a bit spooky. :duh2:
> 
> It seems my LF5XT either has a mind of it's own or a different firmware than the rest of them.
> 
> ...




* Mine , Also , won't respond if I just *TAP* it ...... but WILL turn on the first time if I firmly press/release . It seems to need .2 of a second to get the turn-on signal in the MCU.

Please try it and see if it helps .
* 
.


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## orcinus (Jul 17, 2008)

Already tried it, the "firmness" or press duration don't do anything. In fact, if you keep it pressed too long, it rejects the keypress (try it - press it longer than you usually do, but not long enough for the PH - somewhere in between).

Like i wrote, the only variables that seem to affect it are the amount of time elapsed from the last action and the amount of ambient light (that last one is probably limited to my particular sample).


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 17, 2008)

. Must be the variable tolerances in electronic components. Kinda like resistor values which vary + or - . 

Most are not the exact resistance value stated.

I hope Khoo gets a definitive answer on this from LiteFlux real soon - it needs to be investigated & understood.


just tryin to help
.


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## 04orgZx6r (Jul 17, 2008)

hmmm......I think I need to see a vid of this LF5 XT "spookiness" how bout it orcinus?


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## orcinus (Jul 17, 2008)

The sun's going down at the moment, so i'll see what i can do tomorrow...


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## orcinus (Jul 17, 2008)

--- ignore ---

(false alarm)


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## LED-holic (Jul 17, 2008)

It's ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Run fer yer life!!!!!!!!!!!

:huh::tinfoil::duck::duck::eeksign:


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## orcinus (Jul 18, 2008)

Here's a vid of the sunshine-lockout bug, per request:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRBROuLc6UU

While it's pointed toward the sun (it was shining through some clouds) i'm clicking like crazy, pressing and holding etc. to show nothing happens. Then i press and hold, rotate it away from the window and into the shade (still holding the button) and the moment it goes from sunshine to shade, it switches on.

Re: 15-second lockout - i took out the switch assembly, cleaned it up, lubed the button o-ring slightly and reassembled everything (scratching the brass retention ring in the process a bit, because it got stuck at one point and my screwdriver slipped). A firm, slightly longer and more determinate click now always seems to switch it on. 

I feel a bit bad about scratching up the ring a bit (purely cosmetic damage), even though you can't see it without dismantling the light. I'm a tad too obsessive sometimes... :shrug:


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## WadeF (Jul 18, 2008)

orcinus, looks like you're clicking it too fast, all you will do is turn it on and off and on and off. It may never come on.  If you click, click you turn it on and off and it will be off before it can come on due to the 0.4 sec delay. 

Try pointing it at the sun, give it one firm click and wait. If nothing happens, give it another firm click and wait.


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## orcinus (Jul 18, 2008)

WadeF said:


> orcinus, looks like you're clicking it too fast, all you will do is turn it on and off and on and off. It may never come on.  If you click, click you turn it on and off and it will be off before it can come on due to the 0.4 sec delay.
> 
> Try pointing it at the sun, give it one firm click and wait. If nothing happens, give it another firm click and wait.



I did, right at the beginning of the first try + on second try. The maniacal 5 presses were just me making a point 
I also did a press and hold at some point, while pointing at the sun.

Don't make me do another video just to prove it 

(besides, regardless of the clicks, i'm keeping it pressed the whole time i'm rotating from sunshine into shade)


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## WadeF (Jul 18, 2008)

Well, the way the video is shot you can't tell if the light is coming on or not because the reflector is reflecting the sun into the camera, so you wouldn't notice the LED if it came on, until you turn it away from the sun. I assume you could tell in person. I can't see how pointing it at the sun would prevent it from coming on.


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## orcinus (Jul 18, 2008)

Can you clearly discern the point at which it turns on (while it's rotating)?
If you do, than what more proof do you need that it _didn't_ turn on while facing the sun?

I knew putting up a movie would be a bad idea. :shakehead
Here's a new one. Can't wait to see the skeptical comments on this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnF9s9_TgV0

(the first few attempts are just clicks, the last one - after the cut - is press and hold, while slowly rotating it away from the sun)


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## Kilovolt (Jul 18, 2008)

Orcinus, I for one believe you: your LF5 behaves really strange. 

I confirm that mine does not fear the sunshine although of course there is not much purpose in switching on a flashlight in full sunshine. 

IMHO you have to decide whether you can live with this 'feature' or not. In the negative I strongly suggest you send it back quicky before you get completely crazy...


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## orcinus (Jul 18, 2008)

Nooo, i actually like it this way 
I was slightly bugged by the 15-second lock-out, but that seems to have been fixed.

The sunlight thing i just find funny and interesting. And actually useful (useful bugs - that's a first).

I've put up a video just because i was asked to, somewhere upthread.


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## LED-holic (Jul 18, 2008)

Talk about a true vampire light LOL...


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## kaichu dento (Jul 18, 2008)

orcinus said:


> I knew putting up a movie would be a bad idea. :shakehead
> Here's a new one. Can't wait to see the skeptical comments on this one:


I think most of us believed you but there will always be doubting Thomases.

Haven't watched the video yet because of the slow connection we've got but I'm going to try later.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 18, 2008)

Told ya you were just *tapping* it ......... orcinus


no more 15 sec. lockout probs.


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## orcinus (Jul 18, 2008)

No, the tapping wasn't the cause. Back when it was still misbehaving, i tried pressing the button in every conceivable way - to no avail.

After dismantling, cleaning and relubing your suggestion started to work.

The difference between the way the button behaved before and now is pretty noticable. It's smooth now and does a single, sharp "KRCLICK". Before it had a slightly mushy, two-stage feel to it ("Clyeee-clyunk"). Lubing the small o-ring around the push-button helps the feel and speed a lot (if you don't overdo it), while changing the depth to which the clicky assembly is screwed in fine-tunes the button's travel and force.

Edit: I've just realized i like this light so much i'm contemplating buying another one for my dad... Unfortunately, i'm going away on vacation next week, so that'll have to wait 'till september.


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## Sir Lightalot (Jul 18, 2008)

orcinus said:


> No, the tapping wasn't the cause. Back when it was still misbehaving, i tried pressing the button in every conceivable way - to no avail.
> 
> After dismantling, cleaning and relubing your suggestion started to work.
> 
> ...


Mine does that two stage thing too, how did you get it to go away? Ive tightened it down more than comfortably...


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## orcinus (Jul 18, 2008)

Too much tightening causes the button to seize completely. Too little and it's two stage (travel of the button until it engages with the switch being the first 'stage' and travel of the switch itself making the second 'stage'). You have to fiddle with it and keep trying it out until you get it to behave the way you want it to (i.e. eliminating the slack before the push-button engages the switch).

Also, watch for the position of the circuit board with the switch. It's slightly smaller than the inside diameter of the tail cap, so it can end up being positioned slightly off-center (mine was like that out of the box).

Again, like i wrote above, lubing the button a bit helps. Too much of it makes it hard to press, though.

Edit: You can't make the slack go away completely. There's always going to be a bit of travel before the push-button engages the switch (hence the "kr" in "krclick"), that's just the way the light is constructed, but you _can _reduce it to the point where it doesn't feel two-stage anymore.


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## GBH2 (Jul 21, 2008)

*Deleted *because of double post caused when servers went down.


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## GBH2 (Jul 21, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Nooo, i actually like it this way
> I was slightly bugged by the 15-second lock-out, but that seems to have been fixed.
> 
> The sunlight thing i just find funny and interesting. And actually useful (useful bugs - that's a first).
> ...



Although, I believe you about the "sunlight lockout" I thought you may be interested in some apparent corroboration I came across.

This is a bad google translation of a chinese forum - but it gets the point across (Mountech is apparently one of the Lf5xt designers):

_" 3. LED by exposure to direct light sensors will be a negative voltage, this phenomenon on the mainland before the forum have discussed, this would be to interfere with negative voltage to the trigger circuit-LF5XT prospective, causing trigger a problem (that is, not boot) This is not what I want to, you will use a flashlight under the glare? "_


post #13 : http://64.233.179.104/translate_c?u...ge%3D1&page=2&langpair=zh-CN|en&hl=en&ie=UTF8



I found this link in this post by Jackcselab in the Selfbuilt's Lf5xt Review thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2565668&postcount=26


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## orcinus (Jul 21, 2008)

Thanks!

That actually sounds like a pretty solid confirmation of the lockout end mechanism causing it. 

BTW, just in case someone needs it and has missed it over in clintb's simplifed manual thread:






click for full size


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## Snow (Jul 23, 2008)

I have had my light for a couple of weeks now and I'm enjoying it a lot, but a few things bug me.

1. The button has quite a bit of slack in it before it engages. It almost feels like I could do a soft press like on a Fenix reverse clicky.
2. Setting it down on the tailcap turns it off. It's surprising how gently I can set it down and still have this happen. 

Those are my only two issues with this light. Otherwise, it's perfect. I have not been able to follow CPF closely lately. Has there been discussion of any fixes for these issues?


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 23, 2008)

Snow said:


> I have had my light for a couple of weeks now and I'm enjoying it a lot, but a few things bug me.
> 
> 1. The button has quite a bit of slack in it before it engages. It almost feels like I could do a soft press like on a Fenix reverse clicky.
> 2. Setting it down on the tailcap turns it off. It's surprising how gently I can set it down and still have this happen.
> ...



Problem 2 has been noted and discussed a bit, but no-one from LiteFlux has popped up to offer a fix. Personally, I don't find my button too slack, but obviously people's mileage may vary on that one.


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## Rogerg (Jul 24, 2008)

kaichu dento said:


> I think most of us believed you but there will always be doubting Thomases.
> 
> Haven't watched the video yet because of the slow connection we've got but I'm going to try later.



Mine does the same sunshine thing with part used alkaline but not with higher voltage lithium ion batteries. I do not need to use it in the sunshine so this is just something interesting. 
There are a lot of nice lights out there. 
I think this is a fine light for me.
Roger


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## redsfairlane (Jul 24, 2008)

Mine does not want to turn on to the lowest level in direct sun, but to a higher level is no problem.
Also I have that isue with it turning off with a light to med. tap on the tail.

That is untill yesterday when both of those things went away:twothumbs, because I dropped it about 7 ft. to a concrete floor:mecry:

Well, the bright side is that now I have a reason to try to to get it apart and see if I can fix it. It has a nice little rattle sound now so it should not be hard to find the problem once I get it apart.

Ohterwise though, I really like the light, good UI, size, brightness, this is one I'd recommend. (well one of a few.)

Should be a good weekend project, wish me luck


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## youreacrab (Jul 26, 2008)

as much as i love this light, the fact that it turns off if dropped (or even set down gently on its tail) is a dealbreaker. 

considering all the torture-tests some forum members will put their other lights through, a light that dies when its placed on a hard surface is inexcusable.

is there a fix?


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## Rogerg (Jul 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> as much as i love this light, the fact that it turns off if dropped (or even set down gently on its tail) is a dealbreaker.
> 
> considering all the torture-tests some forum members will put their other lights through, a light that dies when its placed on a hard surface is inexcusable.
> 
> is there a fix?


I do not think this a problem at all. My LF2 will turn off due to battery bounce if set too hard on the tail end and I use mine that way sometimes, but after a year of use with the LF2 never a problem when using in hand. Same thing with LF5 XT if using regular batteries but never a problem using the light normaly. Edit: With longer lithium ion cells you would have to bounce it harder tail end on a surface to lose momentary battery contact on the same power settings. On low settings momentary loss of battery can be longer. A spring on each end of the battery would be a fix if there is room. This light works very well on lithium ion cells. No fix needed in my small opinion.
Redsfairlane hope you can repair what ever happend on the drop to the concrete.
Roger


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## Norm (Jul 26, 2008)

Snow said:


> 2. Setting it down on the tailcap turns it off. It's surprising how gently I can set it down and still have this happen.


If I give mine a good bump on the tail it will turn off, obviously the positive contact is broken as the battery moves against the spring, I don't see this a a real problem, but for those that are worried by it you could increase the spring tension by either stretching the spring or increasing the battery length with a magnet on the negative end of the battery. 
Norm


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## orcinus (Jul 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> considering all the torture-tests some forum members will put their other lights through, a light that dies when its placed on a hard surface is inexcusable.



It doesn't "die", it turns off. There's a difference.

On a sidenote, i've been using my LF5XT for walking in the dark these past few days and was really surprised at how comfy and usable the beam is! It may be tighter than most other lights of its size, but the uniformity of the beam and soft transition from spill to hotspot make it MUCH more usable for lighting up a path than most much wider-beamed lights.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 26, 2008)

Just got mine,I cannot get it to turn off when I tap it on a hard surface did I get lucky?
If anyone is still on the fence thinking of getting one,get one now you wont regret it.
It is as good as a AA lights gets at the moment.


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 26, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Just got mine,I cannot get it to turn off when I tap it on a hard surface did I get lucky?
> If anyone is still on the fence thinking of getting one,get one now you wont regret it.
> It is as good as a AA lights gets at the moment.



I have to tap mine pretty hard on its end to get it to switch off, and even then it only switches off if the brightness is > 50% (otherwise I assume there's enough current in the inductor to keep the light running).

I agree, it's the best AA out there.


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## youreacrab (Jul 26, 2008)

orcinus said:


> It doesn't "die", it turns off. There's a difference.



Maybe there's a language difference between us, as I see you're in Croatia (lovely country by the way). But in American English, we use colloquialisms like "kill the lights" or "kill the engine" and we don't mean homicide or obliteration.


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## youreacrab (Jul 26, 2008)

I appreciate that some of you don't see this as a problem because it doesn't affect you in your uses, but I think a better view is to see it as a problem if its foreseeable that it affects a significant proportion of users.

So regardless of whether it affects you, how can can one not think its a glitch to have a light that "turns off" if accidentally dropped? A self-proclaimed "tactical" light be able to survive a few jolts in the ordinary course without turning off.

But come on--its not just drops--this light is designed and advertised as a tail-stander and it can't survive even an ordinary amount of force in setting it down without the light turning off.

Given others' reports of the same, I don't think this is an isolated issue. Does anyone have a proven fix? The stock springs seem sufficiently strong, I can't imagine there's too much room for the battery to move--especially under the minimal force necessary to kill the light.


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## Zenster (Jul 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> as much as i love this light, the fact that it turns off if dropped (or even set down gently on its tail) is a dealbreaker.
> 
> considering all the torture-tests some forum members will put their other lights through, a light that dies when its placed on a hard surface is inexcusable.
> 
> is there a fix?


 
There's way too much emphasis being placed on this issue.

All that's happening is that a firm "set-down" on the tail allows the weight of the battery to momentarily break contact with the head. And all that does is to turn the light off.

But I really like how sweet the "switch" feels in that it's nice and easy to press. I like that a LOT, being the owner of a JetBeam I MK IBS that is so hard to operate that it almost takes two hands to turn it on.

The "fix" for the LF5XT is to make the spring MUCH stiffer, and that would mean that operating the switch would be MUCH stiffer as well.
So knowing how it works, and knowing that all you have to do is to set it down gently when you want to tail-stand it, is totally fine with me.

With my experience with the aforementioned JetBeam I, if the switch on the LF5XT were as hard to operate as the JB, I would in fact consider THAT to be a "deal breaker" for me. My JB I MK IBS is now a drawer queen.

As is often said, "No light is perfect", because any design is going to have compromises. When you want one feature to work really well, it is often necessary to accept some other shortcoming in order to allow that great feature.
In the case of the LF5XT, I like the trade off. I honestly didn't know about the "tail-stand turn off" issue until I read about it in this thread. 

In fact, a small light's ability to tail stand is a "deal breaker" for me because I use my EDC lights a lot that way, and of the many times I've turned my LF5XT on and set it on a table or shelf, it has NOT ONCE turned off. I was only able to make it do that by _intentionally_ setting it down harder than I typically do when I tail-stand it.

So my .02 is that this is an _easily avoided_ situation once you know about it and it is simply avoided by setting it down gently. 
It's easy to see how this works if you take off the head and just push the battery down a little... note how easy it is to overcome the spring tension.
So if this is a major annoyance to someone and you really want to stop it, just stretch the spring in the tail cap so that it will put more pressure against the battery. However, be aware that the pressure needed to operate the switch will increase as well.
For my part, my LF5XT is just fine the way it is.

For those who don't want a light that can turn off if dropped, then you need to look at other lights and forget about this one because dropping this light from a height is definitely going to overcome the spring tension (no matter how stiff it's set) and turn the light off.
Like I said, all lights have compromises, and if that's a compromise that you can't live with, then the time you spend in this thread is totally wasted.


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## orcinus (Jul 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> Maybe there's a language difference between us, as I see you're in Croatia (lovely country by the way). But in American English, we use colloquialisms like "kill the lights" or "kill the engine" and we don't mean homicide or obliteration.



I'm probably not 100% on the ball with American colloquialisms, but IMHO, "killing the light" is one thing, "the light dying" is something completely different - it implies (temporarily?) unrecoverable damage or error.



Zenster said:


> The "fix" for the LF5XT is to make the spring MUCH stiffer, and that would mean that operating the switch would be MUCH stiffer as well.



I'm not sure it would. The blackout is caused by either the spring in the battery tube, or the spring holding the tube in place. The switch has its own spring and dropping the light shouldn't have any effect whatsoever on it.

That said, the issue is definitely way overblown. I can make my LF5XT switch itself off by _deliberately_ dropping it hard on its tail. I've never had it happen accidentally.

Also, i tried dropping it on the floor (admittedly, not from a great height or on extremely hard surfaces) and never had it switch off (it should be noted it also rarely drops exactly on its tail when it falls).


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## youreacrab (Jul 26, 2008)

Zenster said:


> There's way too much emphasis being placed on this issue.



I don't think there's enough emphasis placed on this. This "issue" is not a feature, its a glitch. Glitches don't get fixed unless glitches enough emphasis is placed so that they are known and discussed. I get a kick of you guys telling me the issue is overblown. Its like you're trying to quell negative publicity of the light. I don't think the issue is overblown until there is a known fix. Others are experiencing the same thing and I'm sure many would like to know if they've developed an actual working fix. Idle speculation of the cause and a summary conclusion that its a non-issue is simply not helpful.



Zenster said:


> The "fix" for the LF5XT is to make the spring MUCH stiffer, and that would mean that operating the switch would be MUCH stiffer as well.



Is this speculation or has it been proven? I just stretched out every spring in the light and it didn't make the slightest difference. I don't think the issue is a lack of spring tension causing things to flounder around inside the light. I can shake the light up and down placing a lot of force on the components in either direction--nothing happens. But then the slightest tap on the table knocks it out. If it was just an issue of loose springs, then the same issue should result from shaking it violently.

Moreover, the same result occurs if the light is placed down on its head. And the issue isn't limited to direct contact along the light's major axis--any contact at a 45 degree angle to the head or tail will knock it out too. 

Interestingly, it does not remember the mode it was set on, if it was changed since turned on, when it dies. This makes me believe its not just an accidental switching off but something else inside crapping out.


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## orcinus (Jul 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> I can shake the light up and down placing a lot of force on the components in either direction--nothing happens. But then the slightest tap on the table knocks it out. If it was just an issue of loose springs, then the same issue should result from shaking it violently.



Actually, it wouldn't. Deceleration is what's causing this.
Shaking the light creates acceleration and forces that are _much_ smaller than dropping (or tapping) the light on a hard surface. Think about it - since it isn't made of a force absorbing material, the light (and all its components) decelerates from whatever speed you've given it to 0 m/s in milliseconds.

Anyway, back to the issue, the springs are definitely the culprit here. After stretching them a bit and tightening the tail switch assembly / retention ring, my LF5XT is almost completely immune to tail drops. I have to kick it REALLY hard to get it to switch off, and when i do that, i can clearly hear the battery/battery tube rattle.

If it yours is really that bad, try putting a washer inside the battery tube and between the tube and the tail cap and see if it improves.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 26, 2008)

Sounds like your light has a problem but just because a couple others have been able to get a similar situation that is likely a break with battery contact does not mean all or even most LF5XT's have this issue. I've got 2 and have never noticed it and obviously it will depend on how you use the light. I don't think it would be an 'issue' or a glitch for me even if it did go out when set on the tail. I've got a Surefire that does the same thing and it is not a problem for me. So we all have levels of what is acceptable and what is not. It does sound like yours may have an unacceptable problem though for you or probably anyone if it is that sensitive and does sound like something needs to be fixed. Have you checked the tailcap and any other parts to see if they are screwed all the way down? On my second LF5XT the tail switch was loose about 1 full turn when I first got it. I just used a small needlenose plier to tighten it down. I think it was slightly loose when I got it but came unscrewed more when I took it apart to clean and lube the threads (not sure this was needed as the LF5XT seemed to have a good light quality lube similar to what I use). I noticed this because the tailcap would not screw all the way back onto the body. 
Hopefully you can get yours fixed but based on some others observations here this does not seem to be a problem with all lights. I haven't checked mine yet for this tail-tap phenomenon but I will check and report back here.


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## HKJ (Jul 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> I don't think there's enough emphasis placed on this. This "issue" is not a feature, its a glitch. Glitches don't get fixed unless glitches enough emphasis is placed so that they are known and discussed. I get a kick of you guys telling me the issue is overblown. Its like you're trying to quell negative publicity of the light. I don't think the issue is overblown until there is a known fix. Others are experiencing the same thing and I'm sure many would like to know if they've developed an actual working fix. Idle speculation of the cause and a summary conclusion that its a non-issue is simply not helpful.



That is your opinion about the issue, for me it is not an issue. I have never seen it when using the light.

If LiteFlux wanted to fix it, there are multiple ways to do it:
Mechanical: Use a spring at both ends of the battery.
Electric: Use a bigger capacitor across the processor, so it does not lose power.
Software: Store the on-state in the eeprom (Same place as all the settings), this would mean that the light would remember if it was on, even when replacing batteries.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 26, 2008)

Ok - checked. I do find it odd what I observed. A very gentle tail set down did nothing but just a little more than very gentle turned it off - but ONLY when it was on full brightness. All other lower settings including one only a couple steps down from full power did not go off. I could set it down as hard as I was willing to slam it down with no change at all. And when it was on high and lost power it did also loose memory of where it was it seems. I will say this is odd but for my use I can't think of much reason it would be a problem. Still I can now see your concern if this was your only light and in a tactical use situation. As it is this is such a versatile and nice light in so many ways that I would not have a problem buying it even knowing this oddity. But it would be nice to hear from Liteflux on this.


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## Snow (Jul 26, 2008)

Mine will turn off when gently set down on ANY brightness level. Like most people have said, it's not THAT big of a deal, but it is annoying. Mine will turn off even when set down very gently. It is definitely not a situation where I was trying to make the light fail by smacking it around - it was discovered by accident. Now I just have to pay a little more attention when I set it down and it is not an issue. For the price I paid, I am pretty happy with it. If I had paid $100+, I would want this issue resolved.


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## LED-holic (Jul 26, 2008)

Snow said:


> Mine will turn off when gently set down on ANY brightness level. Like most people have said, it's not THAT big of a deal, but it is annoying. Mine will turn off even when set down very gently. It is definitely not a situation where I was trying to make the light fail by smacking it around - it was discovered by accident. Now I just have to pay a little more attention when I set it down and it is not an issue. For the price I paid, I am pretty happy with it. If I had paid $100+, I would want this issue resolved.


Wow that would drive me nuts. Fortunately my LF5XT did not do that. I guess I got lucky with my LF5XT in that it didn't exhibit any of the strange behaviors you guys noted in this thread.


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## youreacrab (Jul 26, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> Wow that would drive me nuts.



yep. exactly. the lf5xt is a fun toy and 99% perfect. flashlights need to be reliable, and this one ain't. i'll stick with my d10. thanks all for the comments, nothing seemed to work. look forward to the next version.


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## alibaba (Jul 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> yep. exactly. the lf5xt is a fun toy and 99% perfect. flashlights need to be reliable, and this one ain't. i'll stick with my d10. thanks all for the comments, nothing seemed to work. look forward to the next version.


 


Hmmmm, this would drive me nuts as well. I can envision many real-life scenarios where the light turning off with a tiny bump would be at best a pain in the a$$ or at worst life threatening! I passed on the LF5XT already because the D10 seemed simpler and more robust (less toy, more tool) but this issue would have killed it for me as well. Seems like another case of paying consumers beta-testing lights to fix the bugs. The NC SPD series has a few issues as well but this one is, IMO, unacceptable.


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## mighty82 (Jul 26, 2008)

My LF5XT also has this problem. I mentioned it in another thread and even made a video that you can watch HERE. As you can see it turns off even from a 1mm drop. I must really consentrate to put it down without turning it off. This is only an issue with NiMh though, with the longer and lighter 14500's I have to smack it down to make it turn off. In the video it was on 50% brightness.

The LF5XT is awaiting shipment back to khoo right now for a replacement, because of various flickering and noise problems. The only problem is the price for shipping registered mail from norway. It's $60!!!! Just because the package is more than 2cm thick.   :sigh:


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## Snow (Jul 26, 2008)

To be fair, I could probably send it back to Liteflux for a replacement, but Khoo hand selected a warm tint for me and it is the best tint I have seen on any light. I wouldn't want to ask for it to be done again and I wouldn't want to change to a cooler tint. I will have to just be careful and maybe add a lanyard to prevent drops.

Speaking of drops, although my LF5XT did turn off when dropped ~3 feet onto concrete the other day, it landed in running water and still works fine. Additionally, there is a tiny dent in the metal of the body, but the anodization is fine. Tough stuff.


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## Zenster (Jul 26, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> Is this speculation or has it been proven? ... <snip>...
> Moreover, the same result occurs if the light is placed down on its head. And the issue isn't limited to direct contact along the light's major axis--any contact at a 45 degree angle to the head or tail will knock it out too.


 
This doesn't require speculation, just simple physics.

Take a AA battery and drop it from a height of just 1/2" onto a hard surface and you'll hear more than one "bump" as it hits the table.
That's because it bounces on the hard surface with no spring involved at all. Like I said; physics.

The spring isn't strong enough to support the weight of the battery when dropped on the tail, and the battery bounces off the PCB when dropped on it's head for the same reason; the spring isn't strong enough to keep the battery from bouncing off the hard surface of the PCB.
Keep in mind that it only takes a .001" or even less to break contact.

No magic here, guys. It's an obvious reason for this behavior, and like I said, everyone who doesn't think it to be an issue (like myself) have one of the better lights out there for the money. 
Then my question for everyone else who can't live with this issue... why are you still posting in this thread? You're not likely to be made satisfied here.


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## Norm (Jul 26, 2008)

Zenster said:


> TThe "fix" for the LF5XT is to make the spring MUCH stiffer, and that would mean that operating the switch would be MUCH stiffer as well.


The amount of pressure on the battery has no influence on the switch action unlike the EX10 the LF5XT has a separate spring as part of the switch itself. Mine takes a good bump to get it to turn off, anyone who finds that they can't even sit the light on it's tail without it turning off obviously has a problem.
I just tried my light with 2 small magnets on the negative end of the battery and it increase the amount of force needed to bump the light off considerably. 

As previously stated.


HKJ said:


> If LiteFlux wanted to fix it, there are multiple ways to do it:
> Mechanical: Use a spring at both ends of the battery.
> Electric: Use a bigger capacitor across the processor, so it does not lose power.
> Software: Store the on-state in the eeprom (Same place as all the settings), this would mean that the light would remember if it was on, even when replacing batteries.


Norm


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 26, 2008)

Norm said:


> The amount of pressure on the battery has no influence on the switch action unlike the EX10 the LF5XT has a separate spring as part of the switch itself. Mine takes a good bump to get it to turn off, anyone who finds that they can't even sit the light on it's tail without it turning off obviously has a problem.
> I just tried my light with 2 small magnets on the negative end of the battery and it increase the amount of force needed to bump the light off considerably.
> 
> As previously stated.
> Norm



I agree Norm. There's some unwarranted extrapolations going on this thread. A few people's XTs are overly sensitive to axial deceleration. This does not mean the entire product line is flawed. It means that those torches should be returned.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 26, 2008)

Hold on! someone will post a fix soon.:thumbsup:


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## alibaba (Jul 26, 2008)

Zenster said:


> The spring isn't strong enough to support the weight of the battery when dropped on the tail, and the battery bounces off the PCB when dropped on it's head for the same reason; the spring isn't strong enough to keep the battery from bouncing off the hard surface of the PCB.
> Keep in mind that it only takes a .001" or even less to break contact.
> 
> No magic here, guys. It's an obvious reason for this behavior, and like I said, everyone who doesn't think it to be an issue (like myself) have one of the better lights out there for the money.
> Then my question for everyone else who can't live with this issue... why are you still posting in this thread? You're not likely to be made satisfied here.


 


Didn't *youreacrab* post that his light turns off if bumped on the head as well? Even a 45' angle he said will do it on either the head or tail so it seems that it's more than the battery spring. No magic here? Are all the other lights that DON'T turn off when bumped magic then? 

Sorry but I was put off with your tone on this post. Why are they still posting here? Maybe because the manufacturer of the light follows these threads and might just fix the issue on a later version? They have as much of a right to post about problems (more IMO) as you do about good experiences with a torch.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 26, 2008)

:thinking: of topic can some one tell me in simple terms! how do I get it back to factory setting.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 26, 2008)

alibaba said:


> Didn't *youreacrab* post that his light turns off if bumped on the head as well? Even a 45' angle he said will do it on either the head or tail so it seems that it's more than the battery spring. No magic here? Are all the other lights that DON'T turn off when bumped magic then?
> 
> Sorry but I was put off with your tone on this post. Why are they still posting here? Maybe because the manufacturer of the light follows these threads and might just fix the issue on a later version? They have as much of a right to post about problems (more IMO) as you do about good experiences with a torch.


The fix! often comes from someone here,"CPFfolk "are so intelligent  me not included :laughing:


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## alibaba (Jul 26, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> The fix! often comes from someone here,"CPFfolk "are so intelligent  me not included :laughing:


 


LOL, I hear that!


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 26, 2008)

So true,I love your sig line. BTW,
Answer? to stretch our legs!


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## youreacrab (Jul 26, 2008)

Zenster said:


> Then my question for everyone else who can't live with this issue... why are you still posting in this thread? You're not likely to be made satisfied here.



Don't be rude. Those who "can't live with the issue" might want fixes. We're still waiting on someone to post a verified fix.


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## LED-holic (Jul 27, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> :thinking: of topic can some one tell me in simple terms! how do I get it back to factory setting.


with the light on, click 4 times, then press/hold. The light will go into the advanced programming mode. click the light until it's blinking 4 times, then click 3 times and then press/hold. The light will reset itself to factory state.


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## cave dave (Jul 27, 2008)

I'll have to chime in here and say that ideally no light should turn off when dropped. This is a safety issue. You are out hiking a rocky trail and it's dark (obviously) and you drop your light and it goes out. Now its going to be really hard to find that light you just dropped.

Sidenote: Once when I left my tent in the middle of the night for a relief I dropped my Spy while it was off and it made a flash like it does when you install batteries and that flash was the only thing that allowed me to easily find the light.


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## Thujone (Jul 27, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> A self-proclaimed "tactical" light be able to survive a few jolts in the ordinary course without turning off.




Explain to me what the tactical purpose of tail standing is... Most tactical lights are forward clickies or momentary and letting go of the light (unless latched on) will result in the light turning off. Much better the light be off if it isnt pointed where you want it so as to not illuminate you and your team. My older LF5 does turn off when placed fairly gently on a table, but I have never been in a life and death situation where .3 seconds without light when I tailstood my LF5 would make all the difference... I do not mean to belittle you. Just your emphasis on this issue.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 27, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> The only problem is the price for shipping registered mail from norway. It's $60!!!! Just because the package is more than 2cm thick.   :sigh:


daylight robbery,from the UK it would be $16.00 registered small package.Maybe you should have sent it to me first.


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## mighty82 (Jul 27, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> daylight robbery,from the UK it would be $16.00 registered small package.Maybe you should have sent it to me first.


I think I need to go to sweden and send it from there to get a reasonable price. I told khoo about the price it would cost me to send it back after he sent me a mail and offered an exchange, but it didn't look like he believed me. He just told me someone sent him a LF5XT head from germany for 4 euro, so it had to cost about the same from norway.. Yeah.. What does norway have to do with germany? Of course it's nothing he could do about the price, but still, i'm not lying! 

THIS is the page with the norwegian prices for registered letters. As you can see it jumps from 100 ($20) to 300 ($60) when the letter is more than 2cm thick. The LF5XT head is 2cm itself so there is no way to get below that.


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## clintb (Jul 27, 2008)

cave dave said:


> I'll have to chime in here and say that ideally no light should turn off when dropped. This is a safety issue. You are out hiking a rocky trail and it's dark (obviously) and you drop your light and it goes out. Now its going to be really hard to find that light you just dropped.


One word: Lanyard.


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## cave dave (Jul 27, 2008)

clintb said:


> One word: Lanyard.



I use a lanyard but I'm still clutzy. Most drops occur when I'm transitioning the light from pocket to hand or hand to hand. Lanyard doesn't help much then, sometimes it even gets hung up on something and actually causes the drop.


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## varuscelli (Jul 27, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> THIS is the page with the norwegian prices for registered letters. As you can see it jumps from 100 ($20) to 300 ($60) when the letter is more than 2cm thick. The LF5XT head is 2cm itself so there is no way to get below that.


 
Marduke can help. (Well...sort of.)

Will It Crush


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## alibaba (Jul 27, 2008)

Thujone said:


> My older LF5 does turn off when placed fairly gently on a table, but I have never been in a life and death situation where .3 seconds without light when I tailstood my LF5 would make all the difference... I do not mean to belittle you. Just your emphasis on this issue.


 


I understood it that their lights STAY off when bumped, not just a quick flicker. I also understand that it happens (for some) if it's bumped on the tail OR the head and at up to a 45' angle away from the long axis which would have obvious tactical implications. Leaving tactical out (which I do) I don't want my light to turn itself off with a slight bump or if I drop it................that just ain't good


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## Thujone (Jul 27, 2008)

alibaba said:


> I understood it that their lights STAY off when bumped, not just a quick flicker. I also understand that it happens (for some) if it's bumped on the tail OR the head and at up to a 45' angle away from the long axis which would have obvious tactical implications. Leaving tactical out (which I do) I don't want my light to turn itself off with a slight bump or if I drop it................that just ain't good



FWIW I think LF has made major strides in this area from the LF5 to the LF5XT. Both of my LF5 torches were very susceptible to this. Neither of my XTs have had this issue luckily.


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## varuscelli (Jul 27, 2008)

Snow said:


> 2. Setting it down on the tailcap turns it off. It's surprising how gently I can set it down and still have this happen.


 
Wow. Wonder how long it would have taken me to figure that out if I hadn't read it here first? Thanks for pointing that out, Snow. 

I've just started playing around with the LF5XT I received, and sure enough that's the case. I can "drop" it (let it partially slip though my fingers while still supporting the body) and all it takes is about 1/4 inch tail-end drop to my tabletop to make the light go out. I can also repeat that with about an 8- to 10-inch tail-end drop onto the carpet in my computer area (fairly thick carpet, padded underneath).


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## youreacrab (Jul 27, 2008)

Thujone said:


> Explain to me what the tactical purpose of tail standing is...



Explain to me where I said tail standing is tactical?

I said jolts were foreseeable in tactical use. Think about an actual use of a "strike" bezel. 

Jolts are also foreseeable in general use. Like so many others have said--a light that invariably switces off when dropped is dangerous.

Seriously folks, why the antagonism towards people who take issue with this bug? If YOU never subject YOUR LIGHT to any forces, then please be happy with your light and remove yourself from the discourse on this issue. 

For the rest of us who may want to actually use this light in a situation where this bug may prove dangerous or--at least--impractical, please let us discuss the issue and determine a fix.


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## Thujone (Jul 27, 2008)

As to a fix others whos lights are easily affected by this have mentioned 3 things that I have noticed.

1) Stretch spring
2) Add stiff foam inside the spring
3) add a magnet to the battery to extend the battery length.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 27, 2008)

Thujone said:


> As to a fix others whos lights are easily affected by this have mentioned 3 things that I have noticed.
> 
> 1) Stretch spring
> 2) Add stiff foam inside the spring
> 3) add a magnet to the battery to extend the battery length.


Tried 1) and 3) same, mine only turns off if banged hard,light set on low.


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## Sir Lightalot (Jul 27, 2008)

Im not so sure the battery breaking contact is the problem here because i added a spring to the + end and it didn't make a difference. :thinking:


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## Rogerg (Jul 27, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> Explain to me where I said tail standing is tactical?
> 
> I said jolts were foreseeable in tactical use. Think about an actual use of a "strike" bezel.
> 
> ...



If you were to add a light spring to the positive side of the circut board for battery contact and use a lighter than stock spring at the negative side to allow for the extra room, battery bounce would not matter. Spring pressure needs to be kept small so the negative battery tube can mantain contact. You will still have battery tube bounce if hit hard enough though. Someone may be willing to modify your light for a price. I am satisfied with my light and except for making a clip do not plan to modify it. Roger


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## youreacrab (Jul 27, 2008)

i just ran a test which leads me to believe that the cause of the problem is not the battery losing contact.

i wrapped my battery in thin cardboard such that the battery was wedged so tightly in the tube that i needed to use considerable force to insert it fully. then i screwed the top back on, turned on the light.

i next gave it a gentle tap on the tail, and same result. 

for starters, it would be really hard for the battery to lose contact because it was wedged so tightly in the tube. but what if we entertain the possibility that this did happen?

now if the light had indeed turned off because the battery lost contact, then contact should have remained broken because the negative spring would be too far weak to push the wedged battery back up the tube. 

well, the light did in fact turn back on after this. this is pretty strong evidence that the problem is not caused by the battery losing contact.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jul 27, 2008)

In the interest of putting out information on this issue-
My LF5 XT doesn't seem to go out when dropped a foot onto a wooden table onto the tailcap. I really don't feel like beating it up on concrete for now . I'll continue to play with it, as I've only had it for a few days but thus far I haven't been able to get it to go out like my LF2 and LF3 will.
I must add that so far, other than being a bit slippery which could be easily remidied by more agressive knurling the light is extraordinary. Of course I'd love to see some acessories for it... Bezel down pocketclip, Diffuser wand cap that doesnt look like a fenix's and maybe a AA extender tube. But the core light itself is just plain sweet.


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## Rogerg (Jul 27, 2008)

To message 226
Your tight paper test looks like a good one, you are right, it should have stayed disconnected if the battery moved. 
I just tried taking the switch cap off and with the end of my finger holding the battery tube in tight then turning the light on by shorting case to tube. Then while still holding tight, lightly tap the tail end sidwise on bench and the light went off, so I think no battery tube bounce on mine, just the battery. It might be a combination of the two with different spring pressures. I thought I had it figured out but guess not. For me, still an excelent light.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

I just wish LiteFlux would solve this discussion by getting on here with an *Official* explanation of what's causing it. Then we might be able to correct it ourselves.

It would simply be better if it didn't turn off - when bumped. If it can be resolved , folks will be happier. Mine does it too -I wish it didn't. Just a very light tap of the tail edge will cause it to turn off. With the light either tail side up - or tail side down - when taped.

But it's too costly to send back to Khoo for that. I'd prefer a DIY fix if LiteFlux could supply one. I have tried modification to the tension of both springs - and spacer washers under each - to no avail.

A similar piston drive light - the NiteCore SmartPD D10 .... will blink when taped on it's tail end .... but does NOT turn off ..... it keeps burning after the taps.

It seems the LiteFlux LF5XT needs to have it's programing revised to ignore very momentary losses in voltage - nomatter where the loss of contact is happening. I personally think it's happening at the front where the + batt. terminal contacts the + nipple on the circuit board. I have removed the rear screw cap housing the switch and spring ..... shorted body to brass piston to turn light on ..... then held firm pressure on the piston while taping on rear end of body with screwdriver ..... the light turns OFF ... which tells me contact was lost at + terminal points while under variable spring tension at the rear.

It is amazing to me that some lights do it - and some don't - when all it takes is a light tap on mine - quite a variation in production tollerances .

There has to be a logical answer to why they vary so much. That's all some of us are looking for. Answers from LiteFlux ....... as to why ?

If my car turned off after hitting a speed~bump or a pot~hole ....and I had to re-start it each time ....... I would not be satisfied with that ... either.
.


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

youreacrab said:


> well, the light did in fact turn back on after this. this is pretty strong evidence that the problem is not caused by the battery losing contact.



Your're forgetting the whole tube can slide up and down the body too. And it has a relatively soft spring too!


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## Kilovolt (Jul 28, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Your're forgetting the whole tube can slide up and down the body too. And it has a relatively soft spring too!


 
Actually the inner tube is balanced between two springs: its own internal one and the one in the tailcap: this is possibly the reason of the problem. :thinking:

My LF5 suffers from the same 'easy off' syndrome and I must be rather careful when I put it down as a candle. I can't say that this fact is too disturbing for me.


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

Kilovolt said:


> Actually the inner tube is balanced between two springs: its own internal one and the one in the tailcap: this is possibly the reason of the problem. :thinking:



Yeah, that sounds like the most probable culprit to me too.

And i have a *very* simple idea that could fix it. In the next version of LF5XT or, possibly, with a tiny bit of modding, in the current one (come on, LiteFlux!). *Flipping the tube!*

This is what i have in mind:






Of course, that would require some rearranging of the contact pads/nipples...


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

Ok, so, flipping the tube - *BAD* idea!
But flipping the battery (which would, obviously, require a PCB redesign) might work, combined with repositioned springs (and an additional one):






(the battery should be reversed because i imagine getting a reliable contact between a spring and the plus-pole nipple wouldn't be an easy task)


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## Lermite (Jul 28, 2008)

Hi everybody,
I'm received my LF5XT a few days ago from Khoo. Big thanks to him.

This light is awesome but every one knows it already. That's why I won't talk longer about it, but I'd like to inform that I updated my beamshots: http://lermite.nerim.net/beamshots/
The LF5XT appears in the light list, after selecting "Uncentered wall".

I also made an angular test:


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 28, 2008)

I got a black LF5XT from Khoo's 1st batch, and today a natural one arrived. While my black XT worked fine in just about every way, I notice that the natural one shows a few of the quirks which others have noted here:

1 - It switches off (in any mode, even 1%) with quite a gentle tap on the end

2 - It has quite a significant whine in any modes >10%

3 - The light sometimes takes 2 presses to switch on

OTOH it has a far nicer tint, and a much lower low.

Having 2 XTs has allowed me play with mix and matching to see if I can isolate the switching off problem. It actually seems to be in the head, if I swap heads then the torch with the natural (problematic) head displays the sensitivity to tapping. I've tried tightening and loosening the pill inside the head, it makes no difference. I makes me think that the problem is not related to the springs, switch or battery tube. It would be nice if LiteFlux could chime in here to confirm though.

Anyone else noticed any differences between black/natural XT's?


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## youreacrab (Jul 28, 2008)

gadgetnerd said:


> Having 2 XTs has allowed me play with mix and matching to see if I can isolate the switching off problem. It actually seems to be in the head, if I swap heads then the torch with the natural (problematic) head displays the sensitivity to tapping. I've tried tightening and loosening the pill inside the head, it makes no difference. I makes me think that the problem is not related to the springs, switch or battery tube. It would be nice if LiteFlux could chime in here to confirm though.



Bingo.

And folks, say what you will about whether or not this isolated issue affects your light and your uses; whats most concerning about this "issue" is the broader implication: it's a general indicia of unreliability.


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## youreacrab (Jul 28, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Your're forgetting the whole tube can slide up and down the body too. And it has a relatively soft spring too!



true, although the spring in my battery tube is much much softer than the one in the tailcap.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

These are links to the original pictures shown by LiteFlux in post1 - of thread beginning(part 1)

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9022/lf5xtcomponentsht6.jpg

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7130/lf5xtrealcomponentskf3.jpg


These pictures show more springs than I can find in my LF5XT.
Maybe we are forgeting about a spring somewhere in it ?

Is it possible there is a weak spring inside the head - between the printed circuit boards ?

I just can't account for all the parts in the pictures.

Maybe it's breaking contact at a hidden point we can't see.
.


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## HKJ (Jul 28, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> These are links to the original pictures shown by LiteFlux in post1 - of thread beginning(part 1)
> 
> http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9022/lf5xtcomponentsht6.jpg
> 
> ...



I would expect the last spring to be in the switch.


Edit:
Just checked and yes it is in the switch.


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## gunga (Jul 28, 2008)

Well, I tried stretching the spings in my lights, and jamming the brass tube a bit with some tape. 

A sharo knock still turns the light off in high (75%), but not in low. A very sharp knock will turn it off on medium (20%) so yes, I conclude it is somewhat circuit dependent and not a purely physical/spring related issue.

What the issue is, I don't know. 

I did not notice that all Liteflux lights act lke this (LF5, LF3, LF2, LF2XT) so it's not a new issue.

Just no one mentioned it before...


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

Am I correct that there are 3 circuit boards in the head ?

I wonder if they are firmly connected together.

In the first picture - I think they must have put 1 too many gold plated springs in the picture. (Thats what goes inside the brass piston)

I can't get my pill out for inspection but it is slightly loose in the threads. (moves only 1/8" back and forth)

If ALL LiteFlux models do this tap/turn off .... then it must not be related to the new piston design. Maybe we need batteries with screw thread + nipples.
.


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## HKJ (Jul 28, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> Am I correct that there are 3 circuit boards in the head ?
> 
> I wonder if they are firmly connected together.
> 
> ...



May I suggest your check the tail, it contains an extra brass ring as a spacer between the pcb and the end bottom of the light.
Tha only leaves on brass ring for the head.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

Yes ... thanks HKJ .... I just caught that as you were typing while I was removing the comment from my post. Guess it misled me cause they were shown over-laping each other so I first thought they fit together.




HKJ said:


> May I suggest your check the tail, it contains an extra brass ring as a spacer between the pcb and the end bottom of the light.
> Tha only leaves on brass ring for the head.


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## cave dave (Jul 28, 2008)

Here is another "feature" I haven't seen mentioned.

If its off you can lock out the switch by turning the tail or head, and this is a good thing too because the switch is so sensitive its sure to turn on in pack or pocket.

However and here is what is odd. If its on and you unscrew the tail or head it doesn't turn off, but it does deactivate the switch so you can't turn it off. I'd call this feature lock on, except for the fact a gentle tailstand will still turn mine off even in this config.


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> Am I correct that there are 3 circuit boards in the head ?



No, AFAIK, there are only two. One with the MCU and another with the driver. The one with the contact points for the battery and tube has the driver on the other side.

There are three boards in total, the third carrying the microswitch and one of the springs (in the tail cap).



cave dave said:


> If its off you can lock out the switch by turning the tail or head, and this is a good thing too because the switch is so sensitive its sure to turn on in pack or pocket.



Mine was shipped that way. Thanks Khoo for not letting the battery get drained by accident .



gunga said:


> A sharo knock still turns the light off in high (75%), but not in low. A very sharp knock will turn it off on medium (20%) so yes, I conclude it is somewhat circuit dependent and not a purely physical/spring related issue.



It is and it isn't. The reason it varies with output is due to varying levels of energy conserved in the driver (capacitor and inductor) and varying levels at which that energy gets drained off by the emitter. More conserved energy and lower consumption result in a better ability to withstand short breaks in power supply. Less conserved energy and higher consumption equal a higher sensitivity to temporary battery disconnections.


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

*Is BOD the culprit?*

I've been thinking (yeah, i know, that's a bad habit )...

Could the tap-shutdown issue be caused by an inappropriately set-up Brown-Out Detection (BOD)? 

Most MCU's, AFAIK, have different, hard-coded BOD sensitivities that can be programmed in the Flash ROM (so called fuse bits). The sensitivities are actually lower voltage bounds that cause a (planned and intentional) reset - if a comparator built into the MCU detects the voltage of power supply has dropped below the selected threshold for a certain period of time, BOD triggers and reboots the MCU.

I imagine having the BOD set to too high a voltage would make the light a bit (too) trigger happy about short term Vcc drops, such as ones caused by the battery rattling around the tube or tube losing contact with the head.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

Then why did they show this picture ......

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7...ponentskf3.jpg

showing 3 circuit boards and a 4th with the clicky switch on it. It said it was a pic. of all the components used in the light .

Deception


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> showing 3 circuit boards and a 4th with the clicky switch on it. It said it was a pic. of all the components used in the light .



One of them's actually the emitter


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

well .... yes .... emitter on a circuit board.

Like I said .... 3 circuit boards in the head.

4th in the tail.

.


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

Okay, if you count it that way, then yeah. But there's really nothing on that board except the emitter. I'm not sure anyone counts that as a PCB on its own, really...

(would you count it as such if it were a stock emitter mount?)


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

orcinus ,

Since my pill is loose fitting in the threads inside the head ..... could that be where mine is loosing electrical contact during the tap/cutoff ?

Maybe it has nothing to do with any of the springs or battery breaking contact ?


Could others with this cutoff issue ..... please check the the tightness of your pill and see if it's loose in the threads? Maybe thats the contact failure common to many lights.

I can't find a tool small enough to tighten my pill .


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

Since all the PCB's in the head (including the emitter board) are connected with wires (at least as far as i can see), i don't see how that would be possible.

Even if the lower PCB rattles a bit in the threads, the springs should always be applying pressure on it.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

My lower PCB does not rattle, nor is it loose....... what I mean is the entire pill assembly housing all the PCB's which has threads on the outside of it.

It seems the loose threads might break contact.


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## orcinus (Jul 28, 2008)

Oooh. Sorry, didn't get ya...

I don't have a clue where and how the board picks the switch signal up from the outer housing. Depending on how it's done, i'm guessing a rattling pill could be another cause for the tap-cutout.

However, mine's sitting tight and it still switches off if i "tap" it *really* hard. And i can clearly hear/feel a "clunk"-type sound when it does.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 28, 2008)

O.K. 

just for the record - mine is natural color.

And I'm using the longest AW 14500 protected batt.

Slight rear tap to outer rim turns it off

It is from the second batch from Khoo


Thanks for your input ..... orcinus 
.


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## redsfairlane (Jul 28, 2008)

Wheee  Fixed my droped and died light.

The inductor core / housing had broken, and it seems the blow was hard enough to lift it from the board, a little soldering and it's shining brightly again. Hard little sucker to work on btw.

So, I added a spring to the positive contact (as someone above did too I think) and it seeme just as suceptable to turning off when tapped.

Yes, 3 circuit boards in the head, one just has the emitter on it.

If your pill is moving just slightly, I'm sure you don't need to worry about it, it's just how it is assembled, contacts between boards are solidly connected by wire and well soldered. Mine will wiggle a bit when shoved, as long as your reflector does not rattle, it's allright.


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 29, 2008)

I got sick of the speculation and have emailed liteflux directly seeking an answer and possible fix for the sensitivity issue. As soon as (if) I hear back from them I'll let you all know.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 29, 2008)

gadgetnerd ..... thanks for your assistance in this matter.






gadgetnerd said:


> I got a black LF5XT from Khoo's 1st batch, and today a natural one arrived. While my black XT worked fine in just about every way, I notice that the natural one shows a few of the quirks which others have noted here:
> 
> 1 - It switches off (in any mode, even 1%) with quite a gentle tap on the end
> 
> ...


----------



## gadgetnerd (Jul 29, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> gadgetnerd ..... thanks for your assistance in this matter.



No worries, I just hope we can all get to the bottom of this problem!

One more thing I noticed, just to complicate the situation. My sensitive XT will switch of it tapped lightly on the tail, or placed down tail first. But it stays running even if placed down quite firmly head down - even though I would have through the axial shock would have been similar.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 29, 2008)

gadgetnerd ,

I noticed your observation also - and agree with your conclusion.

*Both* springs are in the rear area pushing things *forward*, one causing forward pressure to the battery, the other causing forward pressure to the brass piston. The purpose is to maintain contact of both items with two other items in the front. Taping the rear compresses both springs in the same direction , allowing possible disconect. But taping the front works in favor of the springs , causing even more forward pressure to the items.


*Here is another thought :
*
Maybe rear taps are breaking contact of 2 items at the front > *at the same instant* , both the + battery nipple *and* the front rim of the brass piston at the contact ring.

Or would it have more to do with the spring of least resistance (of the 2). Hard to make 2 springs apply the same exact pressure.... together.

It might help if the front rim of the piston was threaded to screw into the PCB contact ring.


Oh well ........... just thinking again !


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## orcinus (Jul 29, 2008)

I've got the impression it's the ring contact ("-") that's causing the problems, not the "+" nipple. So soldering a spring to it won't help much. You'd probably need two additional springs in the head to get any increase in reliability - one conical, on the "+" contact, to push against the battery terminal, and one concentric, cylindrical, on the "-" ring, to push against the tube.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 29, 2008)

Yeah .... but .... the spring pushing the piston for contact is *stronger* than the spring pushing the battery.

So you would expect the weaker sprung item to be more likely to loose contact.




There I go thinking again ...............duh


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## HKJ (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> I've got the impression it's the ring contact ("-") that's causing the problems, not the "+" nipple. So soldering a spring to it won't help much. You'd probably need two additional springs in the head to get any increase in reliability - one conical, on the "+" contact, to push against the battery terminal, and one concentric, cylindrical, on the "-" ring, to push against the tube.



If it is the ring contact, the it is a bad idea to put some sort of spacer on the battery, this will weaken the ring contact even more. Maybe a spacer behind the inner tube, to increase the pressure on it will help?


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## naturelle (Jul 29, 2008)

Hi municipality 

My first black LF5XT from Khoo was from the first batch - it was humming and flickering. So I´ve sent it back to Khoo (his service _is_ actually excellent :thumbsup and he changed it into a newer version.

This new version arrived at me today. And, what can I say - all the same then gadgetnerd`s light :huh::mecry:

1 - it switches off with a very slight tip with my fingernail on the rim of the tailcap. When after that starting the light again it starts in that mode that was the last where the light was shutted off correctly. E.G.: I start the light in low, switch mode to high and then give it a tap on the tailcap, the next start is on low again.

2 - the light is humming, but it`s very slight. The first version was humming stronger.

3 - The "15s-lockoff" is reality. But in my opinion it is not an error. When I click too short I have to click twice to start the light. When I click a very small moment longer the light starts on the first click.


So, at the moment I am disappointed from Liteflux. The LF2 and LF3 are excellent lights, I am using two LF2 and one LF3 everyday, but the LF5XT seems to be a kind of bananaware.:thumbsdow:thumbsdow

Don´t know what to do - try the next time sending the head to Khoo? Don´t know, don´t know...


But, I repeat myself: Khoo´s service is excellent!


n.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 29, 2008)

I just can't understand why ALL of these lights don't ALL behave the same way.

The extreme variations are odd. The many reports from owners don't just vary a little ....... they vary a *Whole LOT*.

Some can just sneeze on it - others have to throw it to the ground with force - for it to turn off.

What strange thing could cause such a variance ....... I wonder.

This is where Quality control should enter the scene ! Bring in the ROBOTS for assembly.

I'll bet the Engineers at LiteFlux are not even discussing this oddity.
.


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## varuscelli (Jul 29, 2008)

I find it kind of disheartening thinking about all the proposed fixes for this issue of the flashlight turning off with a drop or tap to the tailcap, and I've definitely got mixed feelings about the LF5XT. 

Trying to look at it objectively, if this were just about any other kind of retail product and you had to figure out what to fix before it would work correctly and consistently, the product would be unacceptable at the consumer level. 

This is a pretty amazing flashlight, but I think this issue of turning off when dropped or lightly tapped on the tail end is something that would very likely constitute an unacceptable flaw in other product categories. 

Sure, we can be forgiving and live with it. But is this an acceptable glitch? Obviously, there are differing opinions, but I sure don't think what we're seeing is planned and designed behavior -- or have I missed something to that effect?

I give the LF5XT a great big thumbs up for technological innovation (and it really is an amazing little flashlight), but thumbs down on this significantly erratic behavior. It's got a lot more going for it than against it, but the power-off glitch is not (to me) something that should be glossed over or ignored.

OK, that's my two cents for the time being. If I'm obviously wrong in the way I'm seeing this at the moment, I'm sure it will be pointed out to me...and I'd love to be shown where my perspective is off so that I could think about this thing a bit differently.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 29, 2008)

Sounds like proper perspective to me. :green:


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## Kilovolt (Jul 29, 2008)

I have played a bit with my LF5 and can report that I noticed the same thing that Gunga said: the lower the level the harder I have to hit the table to switch the light off. At 5% output putting down the light is not enough, you have to really hit the table while at 100% a minimal drop is enough. 

I put a thin magnet on the battery top, bottom and between tube and tailcap spring but no difference. Stretching the springs does not seem to have an influence on this 'easy off' attittude. :shrug:


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

It seems like this light has a lot of parts, and as *yaesumofo* has observed before, more parts = more chances for issues to pop up. 

This is a very ambitious light from LiteFlux, so we have to give kudos for LF for attempting a light of this magnitude. I'm sure they'll get to the bottom of this and provide some type of fix for this issue.

Version 2.0 will probably be even better and hopefully simpler in construction, and thus more reliable.

Also, on another topic:

Did anyone else other than me experience very loose / stretchy o-rings on the LF5XT, to the point where it was almost impossible to close the bezel and / or tailcap without stretching the o-rings and tearing them? I had to use my fingers to gingerly prop the o-rings back in place by twisting the bezel ever so slowly and working the o-rings back in. It took me a long time to close the bezel or tail due to the o-ring issue.

Funny enough there's a thread about the NiteCore D10 o-ring issue, of which I have experienced no issues with on my several D10s, but on my singular LF5XT the o-ring was very very delicate and sensitive...


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 29, 2008)

You might try the x-tra O-rings that came with it.

Use a lube that dosn't dry out.

No prob. with mine.


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> You might try the x-tra O-rings that came with it.
> 
> Use a lube that dosn't dry out.
> 
> No prob. with mine.


Yep I tried the extra o-rings with it and it did the same thing. I used the lube that came with the light, as well as some Nyogel I had, and same behavior. Must have just been my light then I gather.


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## gunga (Jul 29, 2008)

I get the same issue. I have shredded 2 o-rings by accident on 2 different lights without much effort.

I recently switched to a smaller o-ring (had a spare black Jetbeam C-LE one from a while back) on the battery side and it seems to work a lot better though it may me less waterproof.

THe one on the switch end started streching the other day so I'm trying to not use this part anyways. I found the old LF5/LF3s would shred o-rings too.

Liteflux needs to fix a few things from experience...

:green:


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## orcinus (Jul 29, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> It seems like this light has a lot of parts, and as *yaesumofo* has observed before, more parts = more chances for issues to pop up.



LF5XT has a negligible number of extra parts compared to other modern multi-mode MCU lights. And most of them aren't movable and couldn't affect the issues mentioned around here.

It's not the design, it's the unusually high sample-to-sample variance. At least IMHO.

Be as it may, i'm happy with my LF5XT. Most of the bugs it exhibited can be more adequately be described as cute quirks (the negative voltage sunlight lockout, for example) than real, functionality-impairing issues. And let's be frank here - the LF5XT is much cheaper than a LOT of much less capable lights out there.

Should LiteFlux fix the problem? Yeah, and probably in the least complicated way possible - by storing the ON/OFF state in Flash and retrieving it on reboot. Should the current owners scream bloody murder? Don't think so. Unless they intend on using the light for high-risk, dangerous tactical applications (and i can't imagine why someone would want to buy a programmable, multi-mode, single AA light for that).

Again, just IMHO.


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

Thanks gunga, yea the o-rings issue ain't good based upon my experience. Fortunately my LF2X doesn't have this problem.


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## orcinus (Jul 29, 2008)

Regarding O-rings - nope, don't have any problems with them at all. Sounds like badly machined threads... 

Just BTW, does your LF5XT's tailcap "click" at one point when you screw it in? Mine goes smoothly almost all the way, gets stuck almost at the end, then requires a bit of extra torque (and a "click") to go all the way. I've been trying to find out what's causing it for some time now and don't have a clue. I think it might be the spring...

I was afraid i've shredded the ring the first time it happened, but that's not it.


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> LF5XT has a negligible number of extra parts compared to other modern multi-mode MCU lights. And most of them aren't movable and couldn't affect the issues mentioned around here.
> 
> It's not the design, it's the unusually high sample-to-sample variance. At least IMHO.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, but a couple of the issues would be deal breakers for me personally, for an EDC light. An EDC light needs to not drive me crazy because I have to work around its quirks, daily. A light that is not an EDC light that I use less often can have these problems and not drive me insane because I interact with it less. So it's definitely not a life or death type of situation, but a sanity type of issue.

The LF5XT currently is the most expensive light I've personally purchased, so imho it needs to be as good or better than my other lights, ie L2D, L1D, D10, etc... The other lights I can totally live with as my EDC, are far cheaper, etc... so you get the idea...

This is a great light for sure, and LF has put together a light that no other light in this price category offers, so super kudos for that. Now if they can get their QC right and get these lights out without weird variances it would be great. LF doesn't produce / sell as many lights as other competitors, so I don't understand why even in the limited # of lights they sell they can't have more rigorous QC. 

But no light is perfect, so as long as you're happy with your light that's all that counts. :thumbsup:


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Regarding O-rings - nope, don't have any problems with them at all. Sounds like badly machined threads...
> 
> Just BTW, does your LF5XT's tailcap "click" at one point when you screw it in? Mine goes smoothly almost all the way, gets stuck almost at the end, then requires a bit of extra torque (and a "click") to go all the way. I've been trying to find out what's causing it for some time now and don't have a clue. I think it might be the spring...
> 
> I was afraid i've shredded the ring the first time it happened, but that's not it.


No, it doesn't click at all. However, the o-rings will stretch, and when I have it tucked in just right as I make that final twist, there will be a mild "pop" sound from the O-rings finally being fully twisted into the groove by the tail or bezel.

Interesting behavior on yours...


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## Zenster (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Regarding O-rings - nope, don't have any problems with them at all. Sounds like badly machined threads...
> 
> Just BTW, does your LF5XT's tailcap "click" at one point when you screw it in? Mine goes smoothly almost all the way, gets stuck almost at the end, then requires a bit of extra torque (and a "click") to go all the way. I've been trying to find out what's causing it for some time now and don't have a clue. I think it might be the spring...
> 
> I was afraid i've shredded the ring the first time it happened, but that's not it.


 
The first thing I'd look at is the bottom of the cylinder to see if it's scored in any way.
If the spring in the tail cap has a sharp edge or end on it, it can actually dig into the brass and catch before snapping free which might be what you feel.

I've had that happen on other lights (not this one) and the simple fix is to take a dremel tool with stone attachment and lightly go over the pointy area. Once smoothed (it doesn't take much), things glide quite easily.

That's just one possibility...


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## orcinus (Jul 29, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> Now if they can get their QC right and get these lights out without weird variances it would be great.  LF doesn't produce / sell as many lights as other competitors, so I don't understand why even in the limited # of lights they sell they can't have more rigorous QC.



Maybe they didn't have the time/volume to iron out the bugs in the production process. I used to be _really_ annoyed by the fact more and more companies use their customers (esp. early adopters) as free-of-charge beta testers. Somehow, however, i got used to that and it doesn't bother me as much. I think i've finally gone n(/d)umb


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Maybe they didn't have the time/volume to iron out the bugs in the production process. I used to be _really_ annoyed by the fact more and more companies use their customers (esp. early adopters) as free-of-charge beta testers. Somehow, however, i got used to that and it doesn't bother me as much. I think i've finally gone n(/d)umb


Well, we can't ask for the bleeding edge products / development without being part of that process. So we're partially to blame. 

I mean, just the mere mention of a new light will spawn dozens of new threads and even pre-orders (like the Smart PD lights)!!! Some will think we're crazy, but we know that's how we roll... :tinfoil:

The rest of the flashlight market, meanwhile, are still content with decades old maglights that are cheap and good QC, and not too many desire the latest and greatest in flashlights. 

I figure the price we pay for the latest stuff is what we suffer and enjoy as a small premium part of the market. Got to take the good with the bad. :devil:


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## orcinus (Jul 29, 2008)

Zenster said:


> The first thing I'd look at is the bottom of the cylinder to see if it's scored in any way.



That's the first thing i've checked and - nope. In fact, the end of the spring has been neatly bent and tucked away in the center, so it can't come into contact with the brass tube.

I've just rechecked and the sound could be more accurately described as "snickt", not "click". Since it became less pronounced after i've unscrewed and screwed the tailcap a few times, i'm now thinking it might be the lubricant "popping" at the moment the o-ring creates a seal.


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> That's the first thing i've checked and - nope. In fact, the end of the spring has been neatly bent and tucked away in the center, so it can't come into contact with the brass tube.
> 
> I've just rechecked and the sound could be more accurately described as "snickt", not "click". Since it became less pronounced after i've unscrewed and screwed the tailcap, i'm now thinking it might be the lubricant "popping" at the moment the o-ring creates a seal.


That sounds like an o-ring popping, and fairly close to what my o-rings sounds like when the o-ring finally stretched (popped?) into place creating the seal...

Keep an eye on it. Hopefully it won't stretch out of shape and shred like mine.


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## alibaba (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Maybe they didn't have the time/volume to iron out the bugs in the production process. I used to be _really_ annoyed by the fact more and more companies use their customers (esp. early adopters) as free-of-charge beta testers. Somehow, however, i got used to that and it doesn't bother me as much. I think i've finally gone n(/d)umb. *Most of the bugs it exhibited can be more adequately be described as cute quirks (the negative voltage sunlight lockout, for example) than real, functionality-impairing issues.*


 


Oh man, the torch makers must LOVE you. You have no problem with buying an $80 light, fixing the bugs for them and then buying the fix again!? It must be nice to have enough cash for all of that but I just don't have it. I USE my lights................I use 'em at work to look inside tight machinery, I use 'em to work on my car (again lots of tight spots), I use 'em around the house and I use 'em while camping/hiking/biking. If my light turns itself off everytime it gets a little bump in a tight spot that is NOT a "cute quirk"! It's that kind of attitude (I can afford several revisions so I don't care if the first one sucks) that gives us so many v1.0 lights with defects.


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## orcinus (Jul 29, 2008)

I wrote most of bugs MY sample exhibits are just cute quirks, not the light in general. Re-read my post. Mine doesn't go off at the slightest tap, i have to kick it pretty hard to get it to switch off.

Also, if you buy a different light for each and every of the activities you've mentioned, i'm afraid your deluding yourself in thinking they are just tools to you and not a - well - hobby or obsession. 5-15 $ lights will do for most of what you've mentioned, as evidenced by hordes of non-flashaholics that have been using them on daily basis throughout the decades to no ill effect.

Regarding your judgments as to how much, how often, where and when i spend my money, i think that's none of your concern (but just to set things straight, i buy them MUCH less often than a lot of people here who swear they percieve them as tools only).


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus ,

The rear rim of the brass piston (where the 4 holes are) is catching on the rear edge of the body/threads and suddenly jumping into the interior of the body under spring tension as you turn the clicky cap the last 3/4 turn onto the body untill it is fully tight.

It may do a similar thing at the front as the front of the brass piston seats itself around the contact ring ridge while screwing the head on the last 1/2 turn. There is nothing to self-center it and seat it except the force of the last turn making it happen. Causing a little damage and wear each time to the brass parts.

Thats what you're hearing and feeling while tightening.

Later ........... TMG :naughty:




orcinus said:


> Regarding O-rings - nope, don't have any problems with them at all. Sounds like badly machined threads...
> 
> Just BTW, does your LF5XT's tailcap "click" at one point when you screw it in? Mine goes smoothly almost all the way, gets stuck almost at the end, then requires a bit of extra torque (and a "click") to go all the way. I've been trying to find out what's causing it for some time now and don't have a clue. I think it might be the spring...
> 
> I was afraid i've shredded the ring the first time it happened, but that's not it.


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## alibaba (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Also, if you buy a different light for each and every of the activities you've mentioned, i'm afraid your deluding yourself in thinking they are just tools to you and not a - well - hobby or obsession.
> quote]
> 
> 
> ...


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

I think both Orcinus and alibaba are correct, to a degree.

The manufacturers should work as best as possible to deliver quality products, and the consumers should be a bit more patient buying "bleeding edge" products.

The LF5XT is a light that has never been done before. Its capabilities are truly amazing.

Unfortunately, its distribution channel is not ideal for those of us living outside of Asia. LED Cool (aka Khoo) is a tremendously good seller, but there is only so much he can do, as a 3rd party living overseas.

Those of us in the US or Europe don't have a local reseller we can go to, to get the issues addressed.

Hopefully there will be local distributors for the Americas and Europe, who can help expedite customer issues much faster.


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 29, 2008)

Hi all. I heard back very quickly from Lin Sheng-Cheng at LiteFlux. They're aware of the problem and a fix is being investigated:



> Thank you for your mail . Khoo Tek Kiat had told me about the problem .
> That is caused by the positive of battery disconnect to the inner copper
> contact terminal for a short time . To fix the problem , the simple method
> is using a spring as positive contact terminal instad . I will talk to my
> ...



Let's hope the fix works!


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## varuscelli (Jul 29, 2008)

gadgetnerd said:


> Hi all. I heard back very quickly from Lin Sheng-Cheng at LiteFlux. They're aware of the problem and a fix is being investigated:
> 
> Let's hope the fix works!


 
That'll be pretty cool if they come up with something that's relatively easily workable. Despite my criticism of the glitch, if there's a reasonable fix that can be done by the user, I'm all for it.


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## BabyDoc (Jul 29, 2008)

redsfairlane said:


> ....
> 
> So, I added a spring to the positive contact (as someone above did too I think) and it seeme just as suceptable to turning off when tapped.
> ....
> .


 
Quote:
Thank you for your mail . Khoo Tek Kiat had told me about the problem . 
That is caused by the positive of battery disconnect to the inner copper 
contact terminal for a short time . To fix the problem , the simple method 
is using a spring as positive contact terminal instad . I will talk to my 
spring factory and produce some spring to test can the problem be fixed , if 
yes I will change it and ask Khoo Tek Kiat to help me shipping the spring to 
LF5XT owner that maybe can DIY by user . I will post the rework ( DIY ) 
method step by step in my website of course . Thank you ,

Best Regards

Lin Sheng-Cheng
LiteFlux Co., Ltd. 


I think LiteFlux better go back to the drawing boards with the proposed spring fix. It doesn't look like the spring to the positive contact will work. It least it didn't work for redsfairlane.


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## LED-holic (Jul 29, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> I think LiteFlux better go back to the drawing boards with the proposed spring fix. It doesn't look like the spring to the positive contact will work. It least it didn't work for redsfairlane.


I think I agree with you. It doesn't sound quite right that the spring in the head would be responsible.

A minor tap on the tail is causing the light to turn off, which leads me to believe the issue is with the tail / clicky area.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 29, 2008)

I have bashed mine about a bit"in the interest of a fix" and I find mine only turns off if I hit the tail end.
I have tried springs at the +,stretching of springs and spacers :shrug:

I have dropped it even thrown it "why would I do that:thinking:" and it only turns off if the tail end hits first.

My conclusion is, it's in the switch module,not 100% sure though.


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## baterija (Jul 29, 2008)

Good news gadgetnerd. Thanks for doing the legwork to find out.:goodjob:


On a different note...



orcinus said:


> Unless they intend on using the light for high-risk, dangerous tactical applications (and i can't imagine why someone would want to buy a programmable, multi-mode, single AA light for that).


I could imagine it and that's why I have one on the way.  Not all field applications are high risk or require eye searing output - checking a map, crawling under a vehicle for maintenance, or digging in your bag because you swear you had one last package of [email protected]##$% poptarts left. I want one light on my tactical vest that can go from doing those things to being my backup tactical light for the short range fight. I'm hoping the LF5XT will be a good compromise between the best tactical factors and being a good all around field light.

The factors you couldn't imagine in a tactical light from my perspective:
Programmable - I belive I can make this light operate closer to my ideal UI in operation than most.
Multimode - I want a light able to do multiple things. Multimode lets me do them with more appropriate light levels than a one level compromise to do it all. 
Single AA - AA simplifies my resupply. My other "toys" mostly use AA. I can charge from the HMMWV. Alkaline AA are more likely to be available on the economy if needed. (Bad performance on alkaline still beats no performance. ) Single AA is small and light, but not too small.

Now i just need to have the Post Office arrive with my light :sigh:


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## orcinus (Jul 29, 2008)

I'd imagine something conceived along the lines of KISS (and much more rugged) would be more appropriate for tactical use. LF5XT is a gadget, after all 

Hope you get your LF5XT soon!

@alibaba - It's like LED-holic wrote: you pay a price for insisting on the bleeding edge and being an early adopter. It's nothing specific to LF5XT, LiteFlux or even flashlights in general - that's how things work these days and there's nothing you can do about it. Hence my comment on "going n(/d)umb".

@BabyDoc & TITAN1833 - I'm still pretty convinced it's the tube movement that's causing the problems, i.e. the compression of the tube spring in the tail. And the only thing that can solve that (mechanically) would be an additional spring for the tube in the head (soldered to the ring contact).

@TMG - Meanwhile, after some more unscrewing/screwing and wiping off a bit of excess lube, it stopped doing it completely. There's still a VERY faint feeling of increased resistance at one point, but you can't even notice it unless you screw the tailcap extremely slowly and gently. The thing i don't get about it is - it wasn't doing it the first few days. It started relatively recently, but i'm not sure when exactly - could have coincided with the time i took the tailcap apart, relubed and tightened everything.


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## GBH2 (Jul 29, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Regarding O-rings - nope, don't have any problems with them at all. Sounds like badly machined threads...
> 
> Just BTW, does your LF5XT's tailcap "click" at one point when you screw it in? Mine goes smoothly almost all the way, gets stuck almost at the end, then requires a bit of extra torque (and a "click") to go all the way. I've been trying to find out what's causing it for some time now and don't have a clue. I think it might be the spring...
> 
> I was afraid i've shredded the ring the first time it happened, but that's not it.


My lf5xt makes this "click" noise when screwing on the end cap.

It is the spring. As the spring compresses the smaller section of the spring is pressed against the lower larger portion of the spring and it begins to "catch" on it. Just before the end cap is completely screwed on the the smaller part of the spring has to partially fit inside the larger part of the spring and it "slips" past making the "click" sound.

If you take off the tail cap and press the spring hard all the way in you will see what I mean.

I don't think it is anything to be concerned about.


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## orcinus (Jul 29, 2008)

Nope, that wasn't it, but thanks to your suggestion, i found out what it was AND found out what causes the tap-cutout. At least i think i did 

It's the microswitch PCB!

Anyways, let's start from the beginning... I tried pushing the spring in with my finger to see if it clicks and noticed that, at some point, the switch PCB got separated (pushed away) from the brass retaining ring! Since i couldn't fathom how that could be, considering i tightened it days ago, i tried screwing in the brass ring again with a pencil and - guess what! It was unscrewed!

It seems that screwing the tailcap results in the spring getting lodged in the brass tube surface and actually unscrews the retention ring, loosening the switch PCB. But it gets even weirder...

The loudness of that "click" or "snickt" is directly proportional to the tightness of the brass ring. When the PCB is tightened down, it's there and pretty prominent. If it's a bit loose (just a bit), it goes away.

But the most interesting thing is, i've just realized the sensitivity to tapping is connected to the same thing! I loosen the brass ring a bit, my LF5XT turns off if i ram it tail-end in the table. I tighten the brass ring and suddenly - i can't get it to switch off no matter how much i kick it around!

*To everyone with LF5XT's highly sensitive to tapping:* try tightening the brass retention ring holding the switch (and spring) PCB. Be careful not to overdo it, because it can cause the button to partially or completely bind. Also, check whether the PCB is seated correctly (and centered) and if it wiggles around when you press on the spring.


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## HKJ (Jul 30, 2008)

> Thank you for your mail . Khoo Tek Kiat had told me about the problem .
> That is caused by the positive of battery disconnect to the inner copper
> contact terminal for a short time . To fix the problem , the simple method
> is using a spring as positive contact terminal instad . I will talk to my
> ...



This may not be enough to fix it, the tube may also jump when the lights hit something. Putting a spring under the battery will weaken the pressure on the tube and makeing it more likely that the tube will jump.

The problem with the tube is that it has to be balanced between two springs, increase pressure on the battery, will weaken the pressure on the tube.

A stronger spring behind the tube might help a bit, but it will not fix the problem, when the light is running on high a very short power interruption will turn it off.


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## yaesumofo (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: Liteflex LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)*

I still say that this light has more parts than a "normal" flashlight. Heck it has 3 circuit boards WTF?
There are lots of parts and an overly complicated design.
One thing that is interesting is the fact that the tube is basically a hybrid of the Piston switch system used on some other lights. the "top" of the piston is removed. the tube durries all of the current like the piston does in those other lights. If there are momentary (in the form of milliseconds) disconnect of the edge of the tube from either of the contacts at the front or back of the light the effect is exactly the same as a momentary loss of contact with the battery. This is part of the overly complicated design which is subject to problems. they added a brass (or some material) tube into the design. Why?

Anyway I recommend that you use some progold (radio shack) where the tube makes contact with the other components. Springs on the battery contacts will be useless if it is the tube that is loosing contact.
Yaesumofo


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 30, 2008)

orcinus said:


> *To everyone with LF5XT's highly sensitive to tapping:* try tightening the brass retention ring holding the switch (and spring) PCB. Be careful not to overdo it, because it can cause the button to partially or completely bind. Also, check whether the PCB is seated correctly (and centered) and if it wiggles around when you press on the spring.



Sorry orcinus, didn't make the slightest difference. I'm 97.3% certain that the problem is in the head somewhere, not the tail. As I've noted earlier, if I swap the head onto another XT body (one that is not overly sensitive), it is still sensitive. 

In fact I've tried experiments where I just "hotwire" the light with the tailcap off and can still get it to switch off by tapping.

As a final attempt, I stuck a small 2mm thick magnet on the positive nipple of the battery - but the bloody torch wouldn't switch on at all then...


----------



## orcinus (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: Liteflex LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)*



yaesumofo said:


> they added a brass (or some material) tube into the design. Why?



To separate the power supply path from the switch signal path.
The brass tube "delivers" battery + and - to the head and - to the switch PCB. The body of the light itself closes the circuit from the switch to the head.

Why? To avoid using a clicky and enable use of a much more reliable switch (and avoid full current passing through it).

*@gadgetnerd *- Oh. Sorry it didn't work. But i find it interesting it is in direct correlation with the tail PCB being tightened/loose on mine. My sample wasn't too sensitive in the first place, though (and it's even less sensitive now - in fact, i think it would take a serious hit in the floor to get it to shut down and i don't want to break/chip it ).

Re: putting a magnet on the "+" nipple. If my initial guess that the ring contact is the culprit is correct after all, then putting ANYTHING on the "+" contact will just make things worse. Because that will push the battery away from the head, in turn making it easier for the battery tube to slide away from the ring "-" contact when you tap the light.

Just BTW, back when i was playing with tightening and loosening the switch PCB, i've noticed an interesting thing on my sample. If you get it to tap-shutdown, then switch it on again, it wakes up in _the previous_ mode instead of the last one you've used!

Which means tapping causes the MCU to reboot before having a chance to save the current mode to Flash ROM. Which, in turn, means tapping really does cut off the power supply, not do anything else.


----------



## gadgetnerd (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: Liteflex LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)*



orcinus said:


> To separate the power supply path from the switch signal path.
> The brass tube "delivers" battery + and - to the head and - to the switch PCB. The body of the light itself closes the circuit from the switch to the head.
> 
> Why? To avoid using a clicky and enable use of a much more reliable switch (and avoid full current passing through it).
> ...



Some great observations there orcinus. So, I wonder if the fix is a slightly longer brass tube?


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## varuscelli (Jul 30, 2008)

orcinus said:


> *To everyone with LF5XT's highly sensitive to tapping:* try tightening the brass retention ring holding the switch (and spring) PCB. Be careful not to overdo it, because it can cause the button to partially or completely bind. Also, check whether the PCB is seated correctly (and centered) and if it wiggles around when you press on the spring.


 
*orcinus,* I've been playing around with your fix with mixed results. I'll keep trying, because it surely seems like you're onto something here. 

As a side note, how does the tail cap behave on this light when screwed down tight? I notice on mine that when it's about 3/4 of the way screwed down, it hits a spot where there is a slight bit of resistance, almost exactly like something feels that's cross threaded (or something that "feels" very close to what cross threading feels like). There is a momentary tightening like it's hitting the end point of being tightened down, the it sort of "releases" again and I have to tighten it a bit farther (maybe one more full turn) to really snug it down. The tailcap does this every time I put it on. Do others do that or do I have one that might somehow have a crossed thread deep into the threading (or something along those lines)?


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## orcinus (Jul 30, 2008)

Yes! That's exactly what i was writing about here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2574871&postcount=275

Losening the switch PCB retention ring makes it go away. Tightening it makes it more pronounced.


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## varuscelli (Jul 30, 2008)

orcinus said:


> Yes! That's exactly what i was writing about here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2574871&postcount=275
> 
> Losening the switch PCB retention ring makes it go away. Tightening it makes it more pronounced.


 
Ahh, thanks -- I'm making the connection with what you were saying now. When I played with loosening/tightening the retention ring, I got varying degree of response from the switch itself (all the way from erratic switch response to the extreme of NO response from the switch). I think I have apply the tightening and loosening with more attention paid to movement (or nonmovement) of the switch and spring and see if I can find a sweet spot somewhere in there.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 30, 2008)

Just some thoughts here on the tap-off problem. For such a light tap to cause a switch off there has to be some weight/intertia involved in the tap. The only thing large enough with enough weight to shift during a light tap is most likely the battery/brass tube combination. Otherwise if it was in the head or tail PCB it would be prone to switch off in other directional taps I believe. Since the light uses an MCU with a constant current supplied to it the behavior of the tap-off being a loss of memory of where it was last at means a total power disconnect - not just a switch disconnect. As I think orcinus pointed out there is power provided to the head at all times but the switch only gives a pulse to the controller. That pulse is a negative pulse if I'm correct. Due to the spring arrangement in the light I think it is most likely the battery positive is NOT losing contact with the brass point on the PCB. This would also explain why redsfairlane fix to add a spring there did not work. I'm wondering now if the tail switch actually provides it's negative pulse to the MCU through the outside body. And the inside brass tube is what provides constant current to the MCU as well as getting negative power the the switch PCB. All this means is the brass tube is part of the constant power supply to the MCU and anything that breaks that contact will cause the tap-off phenomenon. As yaesumofo said cleaning these surfaces where the brass tube makes contact may help but I don't think that will completely solve the problem. I think a stronger tail spring (not the one in the brass tube) will help. If the spring in the brass tube is stronger it will only make the problem worse by pushing back on the brass tube more. We have a brass tube that is being pushed on both sides by opposing springs and thus it tends to somewhat 'float' and I think that is where the problem is going to be solved. It needs to be more firmly pushed against the head contact point on the outside of the brass tube. The variation we have been seeing from light to light could be very related to the length of the batteries used if I'm right about this. I think this will also explain why loosening the switch PCB a bit (thus making the tail spring more compressed) will make the problem less noticeable.


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## orcinus (Jul 30, 2008)

From everyhing i've seen, yes, you're 100% right.

The switch connects to the "-" terminal on the battery (through the closed end of the tube and the tail-cap spring) on one side and closes the circuit to the head through the light's body (via the ring on the switch PCB, brass ring and the non-anodized edge of the light's mid-body).

The battery "+" terminal and the tube edge provide the power supply to the head, via the "+" nipple and the "-" ring in the lower head PCB.


----------



## naturelle (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: Liteflex LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)*



orcinus said:


> i've noticed an interesting thing on my sample. If you get it to tap-shutdown, then switch it on again, it wakes up in _the previous_ mode instead of the last one you've used!



Not really new news: click 



> Which, in turn, means tapping really does cut off the power supply, not do anything else.



Yes, but you don`t know _where_ power is cutted off.


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## naturelle (Jul 30, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> I think a stronger tail spring (not the one in the brass tube) will help. If the spring in the brass tube is stronger it will only make the problem worse by pushing back on the brass tube more. We have a brass tube that is being pushed on both sides by opposing springs and thus it tends to somewhat 'float' and I think that is where the problem is going to be solved. It needs to be more firmly pushed against the head contact point on the outside of the brass tube. The variation we have been seeing from light to light could be very related to the length of the batteries used if I'm right about this. I think this will also explain why loosening the switch PCB a bit (thus making the tail spring more compressed) will make the problem less noticeable.



Try it. Put a washer or a small magnet between the brass tube an the tailcap-spring. When the light then works fine, you`ve got it!


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 30, 2008)

Uh .. have some of you not already tried removing the tailcap from the picture entirely , to eliminate it as the tap/cutoff culprit ?

Remove tailcap
Press piston in all the way with finger and hold firmly
Short the body end to brass piston to turn on
Tap the rear with a screwdriver while still Firmly pressing the piston in

Mine turns off ...... what does yours do
.


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 30, 2008)

naturelle said:


> Try it. Put a washer or a small magnet between the brass tube an the tailcap-spring. When the light then works fine, you`ve got it!



I tried it with a 1 euro cent coin which is almost exactly the diameter of the brass tube, but either couldn't get the torch to switch on at all, or it would come on but not respond to the switch. I'll see how I go with a smaller washer.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 30, 2008)

I already tried that ....... no joy .


Please see my comment in post 309


.


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## 04orgZx6r (Jul 30, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> Uh .. have some of you not already tried removing the tailcap from the picture entirely , to eliminate it as the tap/cutoff culprit ?
> 
> Remove tailcap
> Press piston in all the way with finger and hold firmly
> ...



Same


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 30, 2008)

Then the only thing that could have moved and broken contact is the Positive battery terminal from the brass button on the PCB
.


Assuming it's not something in the head body itself

.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 30, 2008)

A couple more discoveries - maybe mentioned before or not - the 'click' or 'pop' or 'snickt' you hear and feel when tightening down the tail switch is NOT the O-ring and is NOT the brass tube snapping into the body. I started with no battery and no O-ring in there and had the tube pushed all the way in the body and it still 'popped'. I removed the tail switch and found that when you push down far enough of the spring with your finger it 'pop's or snaps when it is close to bottomed out. And I found that unless that pop happens your light will NOT turn on. I tightened things back down with a battery to various levels and the light does not turn on until after that snap. In fact one time I had it all the way screwed down and it did not 'snap' and that time the light would NOT come on! So I think this is a unique switch in the tail that I don't quite understand yet but suspect it may be involved in the 'tap-off' problem.

One other problem is the O-ring - it really is too large for this light as mine wants to push out most of the time when tightening down the tail. It needs to be smaller in the inside diameter but the same thickness or diameter of the rubber itself.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 30, 2008)

That is very interesting and helpful , matrix


But why will it Tap/off with all those parts removed ?
.


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## orcinus (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: Liteflex LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)*



naturelle said:


> Yes, but you don`t know _where_ power is cutted off.



No, but it means there's a very high probability it's nothing above the contacts on the lower head PCB nor anything below the tube spring 

There were some suggestions it was a problem with the PCB's in the head, or the microswitch getting somehow (mis)activated... This suggests otherwise. However, that's just how _my_ sample's acting. Others could act in a completely different way.


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## orcinus (Jul 30, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> In fact one time I had it all the way screwed down and it did not 'snap' and that time the light would NOT come on! So I think this is a unique switch in the tail that I don't quite understand yet but suspect it may be involved in the 'tap-off' problem.



There are no additional switches. But if you screw the ring too tightly, the microswitch binds (as i've mentioned before) and you can't get it to activate properly. Depending on how tightly you've screwed the ring down, you'll either bind the button too and won't be able to press it at all, or just get the first "stage" before the button gets to actually press on the switch.

Also, if you screw the ring too loosely, pressing on the spring will cause the PCB to separate from the brass ring and lose the contact, again resulting in an inability to turn the light on.


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## TITAN1833 (Jul 30, 2008)

Interesting orcinus, mine snaps when the tail is screwed down,everything works as normal


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 30, 2008)

:mecry:
.
This is like someone hanged , shot and stabbed - all at the same time ....... which one killed him ?

If one don't getcha ...... the other one will


It seems ANY one of 2 or 3 contact points in this light can break and turn it off.

They are all working against us
You can't get one fine tuned just right cause it affects the tension of another part - - which ever is weaker will be the one to break contact.
.


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## orcinus (Jul 30, 2008)

Mine works fine and i've even got the button to feel exactly the way i want it to (w/regards to resistance, travel and two-stagyness). So it is possible 

OTOH, my didn't exhibit the tap-issue nowhere nearly as bad as some of the others mentioned here, so... :shrug:


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 30, 2008)

*EDIT .. >> NEVERMIND , NO NEED TO CONTINUE READING MY POST

I started to just delete it. *
I measured and found out it can't bottom out on that stopping point when it's screwed together. It has 1 to 2 mm clearance so it can't be a problem. 

Should have measured before I typed ..... my error.



................................................................
I also don't understand the need for the circumference ridge at the rear of the brass piston. This ridge stops forward travel of the piston at a certain point.

The tail cap spring is only compressing the piston to that stopping point ridge inside the body tube.

I would have thought it would be necessary for the tail cap spring to force a constant contact of the brass piston to the contact ring in the head .

How can we know that the built-in stopping point of the piston is not hindering the contact pressure at the front to the contact ring.

I think the piston should be designed to float freely under the presure of the tailcap spring with full *unrestricted* forward motion to *maXimize* contact force with the front ring.

In other words .... I think that rim should be removed so I can be sure the piston is not being stopped *just* before achieving forced contact at the front.(it has to be under force)

Can anyone tell me why that rim has to be there ?
What would it matter if the piston could pass fully through the tube in either direction ?

( I don't care if the piston comes out when changing the battery from the front - without a rim - O.K. )
.

SORRY > SEE TOP EDIT > I REALIZE I WAS WRONG ABOUT THIS...... tmg


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 30, 2008)

..
 . Khoo said he would read all the questions and comments in this thread .

And make a re-appearance in this thread soon.

I understand , now , that he has already advised LiteFlux of the Tap/off issue. They are said to be working on it.
.


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## GBH2 (Jul 30, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> A couple more discoveries - maybe mentioned before or not - the 'click' or 'pop' or 'snickt' you hear and feel when tightening down the tail switch is NOT the O-ring and is NOT the brass tube snapping into the body. I started with no battery and no O-ring in there and had the tube pushed all the way in the body and it still 'popped'. I removed the tail switch and found that when you push down far enough of the spring with your finger it 'pop's or snaps when it is close to bottomed out. And I found that unless that pop happens your light will NOT turn on. I tightened things back down with a battery to various levels and the light does not turn on until after that snap. In fact one time I had it all the way screwed down and it did not 'snap' and that time the light would NOT come on! So I think this is a unique switch in the tail that I don't quite understand yet but suspect it may be involved in the 'tap-off' problem.
> 
> One other problem is the O-ring - it really is too large for this light as mine wants to push out most of the time when tightening down the tail. It needs to be smaller in the inside diameter but the same thickness or diameter of the rubber itself.


I posted about the tailcap spring "click" here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2575412&postcount=295

I think that the fact that the light does not work until you get past that "click" is because of "tailcap lockout". The signal path is not closed until the tailcap is fully tightened which does not occur until after full spring compression and the "click".


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## matrixshaman (Jul 30, 2008)

As of the last time I tightened down the tail switch PCB with some fine needlenose pliers it no longer shuts off even on high except with a much heavier slam down than I can imagine doing except if I dropped it (not likely as I am big on long lanyards). So I don't consider this an issue any more for my use. And it appears I was wrong about that problem getting better with the switch a little unscrewed. However I will try to continue to troubleshoot the problem and try to find a solution. I need a little help though from a couple people here who have said it shuts off even when bypassing the tailswitch by shorting the body to the piston. As a former troubleshooting technician and field engineer for many years I learned a lot of things and one was that a lot of times another person or users test and conclusion from their test was not always perfect in execution. So without anyone taking this personally (please) I'd just like to ask if those who have bypassed the switch and found it to still 'tap-off' are absolutely certain that the brass tube is not losing contact with the brass ring in the head when it is tapped? I tried doing this myself and found it difficult with the couple minutes I had to test it to keep the piston fully and firmly up against the head ring. I also found it hard to keep it shorted while tapping it. What methods or devices did you use to keep it shorted? How did you insure the piston stayed in contact with the head ring? I think if we look at this closely enough we will find the culprit and hopefully an easy solution but so far nothing seems to be quite adding up. With all the different reports it of how this happens it could currently only be one thing - the dastardly FLTS - flashlight leprechaun trickster spirit.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 30, 2008)

GBH2 said:


> I posted about the tailcap spring "click" here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2575412&postcount=295
> 
> I think that the fact that the light does not work until you get past that "click" is because of "tailcap lockout". The signal path is not closed until the tailcap is fully tightened which does not occur until after full spring compression and the "click".



I think you are right on that - I later determined that the 'click' was probably the spring itself - that is the upper smaller rings of the spring were just snapping between the larger lower rings under the compression.

I just now read your description and yes that is exactly what seems to be happening with the 'click'. Good observation and description.


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## alibaba (Jul 30, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> ..
> . Khoo said he would read all the questions and comments in this thread .
> And make a re-appearance in this thread soon.
> I understand , now , that he has already advised LiteFlux of the Tap/off issue. They are said to be working on it.
> .


 


That's been the question on my mind and is one reason why I went with the NC D10 over the LF5XT. Where is Khoo? When the NC PD series came out there were some issues (mostly with stiff switches/wrong lube) and 4sevens was right there on the threads offering a (simple) fix or a refund, no questions. IMO, LF just doesn't have that kind of "hands on" customer service. From all that I've heard Khoo is good to deal with for a return but it's nice to have easy access to CS and quick answers when a problem comes up.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 30, 2008)

In the interest of getting the 'tap-off' problem better understood I'm just going to rattle off a few more things and maybe if we toss this around enough we'll nail it down. After re-reading my own post above from earlier this afternoon I think I have a few things clearer in my own mind and one new possible cause. For the light to shut off as it does we are either losing contact at the positive battery to PCB connection, the negative piston to PCB brass head ring OR we have something shorting out positive to negative briefly. I haven't taken the head apart yet but I believe that is the only point where there could be a short out. So what seems more likely?
1 - battery positive losing contact at the head? The battery is being pushed upward by 2 springs and the one in the tail switch is apparently almost fully compressed pushing up on the brass piston.
2 - the brass piston negative connection from the battery to the brass PCB ring in the head. The brass piston is being pushed up by the tail spring but is being pushed down by the battery which is rigid against the head PCB. 
It seems to me that if the weight of the battery further compresses the brass tube spring when tapped down that it might overcome the upward push of the tail spring to break the negative contact at the brass ring in the head. 
I believe some people mentioned trying a washer to fix that possible scenario. Has anyone tried this yet? Is there any other possible scenario's that could cause the 'tap-off'?


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## yaesumofo (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: Liteflex LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)*

One think which contribute to a flashlights overall qualification as "ultimate" is the end users ability to quick, easy, and domestic service.
In the case of the Nitecore D10 which this light was compared to (and many prefers this light for some reason) the nitecore has a US distribution who is very good at making sure end users are taken care of. An issue like the tap the tail off issue would have received a TOP priority from 4x7's and I suspect that every light would be checked for this issue before leaving the warehouse. That is if sales weren't suspended all together. I have noticed that Khoo has been very absent. This has coincided with the emergence of this rather major problem. Khoo has said that he has had computer (virus) issues. I placed an order just to determine if sales were still going on. They are, and there is no fix coming from the manufacture yet. OK Lets assume light flux figures out the cause and works up a good solution. what are all current owners of this light going to do? Spend a significant amount of money to send the light back to Taiwan to be repaired? Most likely. The possibility of this happening disqualifies this light from "ultimate" status IMHO. 


As easy as KHOO apparently is to deal with nitecore desperately needs a domestic USA distributor in order to succeed in this country.

I do not relish the thought of receiving my LF5XT only to have to send it back for either a refund, or repair. 

I would like to know how many LF5XT owners out there are suffering from the tap on the rear turn off defect. I am very curious as to how big or small a percentage of these lights need fixing.
Any idea? Anybody?
Yaesumofo




alibaba said:


> That's been the question on my mind and is one reason why I went with the NC D10 over the LF5XT. Where is Khoo? When the NC PD series came out there were some issues (mostly with stiff switches/wrong lube) and 4sevens was right there on the threads offering a (simple) fix or a refund, no questions. IMO, LF just doesn't have that kind of "hands on" customer service. From all that I've heard Khoo is good to deal with for a return but it's nice to have easy access to CS and quick answers when a problem comes up.


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## varuscelli (Jul 30, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> As of the last time I tightened down the tail switch PCB with some fine needlenose pliers it no longer shuts off even on high except with a much heavier slam down than I can imagine doing except if I dropped it (not likely as I am big on long lanyards).


 
I've got a large and very pointy set of tweezers that is perfect for tightening and loosing the retaining ring. On mine, when tightened down all the way, nothing changes. The switch works just as it should, but light taps on the tailcap continue to turn the light off. I've tried varying degree of tightening and loosening the ring. If too loose, the switch no longer works properly. If tightened all the way, the switch works properly but does not change the flashlight's tendency toward turning off. I've tried backing it off quarter turns, half turns, etc. -- but cannot find a spot where everything seems to function as it should. Just wanted to put that out there for consideration.


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## GBH2 (Jul 30, 2008)

*Re: Liteflex LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)*



yaesumofo said:


> OK Lets assume light flux figures out the cause and works up a good solution. what are all current owners of this light going to do? Spend a significant amount of money to send the light back to Taiwan to be repaired? Most likely.


 Someone posted above that Liteflux is working on a fix and they will be sending out a diy fix kit to those who have purchased already.


yaesumofo said:


> I placed an order just to determine if sales were still going on.


I hope that is not the only reason you placed an order - I hope you are buying it because you think you will like it.



yaesumofo said:


> (and many prefers this light for some reason)


I hope you didn't intend this as insulting as it sounds. This sounds like someone would have to be an idiot to prefer the lf5xt to the d10.

I have a d10 and an ex10 - they are very nice lights. I agree that 4Seven's is great.

However, I prefer the Lf5xt - Why?

1. the Beam
2. easier clicking
3. configurability / multi-modes / functions like voltage report, etc.

This is just a brief synopsis of my reasons. You are entitled to your opinion and I would hope you agree that those who prefer the Lf5xt are entitled to their's.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 30, 2008)

yaesumofo - it's my impression that Liteflux is a lot smaller company than Nitecore - just my impression and I could be wrong. After having the first one of 2 of these lights I own for a few days I had not noticed any problem and it was not until I read here about the 'tap-off' problem that I even knew about it. As mine stands now it is not a problem IMO for my useage. I've got a Surefire E2DL that does the same thing only with even lighter taps than my Liteflux. In fairness to SF I'll say that is when running one 17670 battery in it which may be a bit shorter than 2 CR123's. I have the impression Liteflux does not yet have a definitive solution or we would have heard from them or Khoo. It is unfortunate they don't have a stateside distributor but I do believe they are a lot smaller company than Nitecore and may not be ready for that step yet. I'll personally just settle for it being a very cool AA light that is highly programmable, MCU controlled switch with the latest R2 Cree and uses a wide variety of batteries along with being one of the only lights I have that can tell me the battery voltage. In other words a ton of features but a slight 'quirk' or two that has no effect on my use. The switch is still a lot lighter to push than my Nitecore EX10 too. I look forward to your impression of the LF5XT when you get it. The Natural finish one was one of the few lights to remind me of the finish on the original Arc LS lights. If you got a Natural I think you'll like that much of it but this is definitely not a KISS light. 

varuscelli - thanks for letting us know about that. Apparently it was something else that caused mine to be less prone to 'tap-off'. I didn't do much except to remove the O-ring and put it back on though so I don't know what would have changed it. I did tighten it down extra tight - as tight as I felt I safely could without damaging anything and my needlenose pliers are quite strong. Other than that I can't think of anything else that would have changed this. But based on my troubleshooting above I am still at a loss as to why tightening that PCB would have made any difference on mine. Back the the FLTS theory I guess :laughing:


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 30, 2008)

..
 .. matrixshaman , 

Back in post 324 - within your questions - ......

I quote you :
I also found it hard to keep it shorted while tapping it.
....................................................................

You *don't* try to keep it shorted - just short till it comes on - like the momentary button would have done.

After it's remaining on - then try taping.

mine goes OFF.
.

Oh , and Yes .... I tried the washer thing at the springs , at the rear - must use a solid slug ( no hole in it) and it cant be too thick , or the tailcap cant bottom out (no contact) - but the spacers didn't do any good anyway , mainly caused more prob.

No mater what I do - a Light tap turns it off.
.


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## varuscelli (Jul 30, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> I didn't do much except to remove the O-ring and put it back on though so I don't know what would have changed it. I did tighten it down extra tight - as tight as I felt I safely could without damaging anything and my needlenose pliers are quite strong.


 
One thing I left out (probably insignificant) is that I did try completely loosening and removing the ring and switch and putting it all back in place to see if that might (by chance) change anything. Nothing changed, though. 

I haven't tried tightening the ring any more than what I'd consider snugly in place, since I didn't want to risk over-tightening it and perhaps causing damage of some kind.


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## GBH2 (Jul 30, 2008)

matrixshaman said:


> In the interest of getting the 'tap-off' problem better understood I'm just going to rattle off a few more things and maybe if we toss this around enough we'll nail it down. After re-reading my own post above from earlier this afternoon I think I have a few things clearer in my own mind and one new possible cause. For the light to shut off as it does we are either losing contact at the positive battery to PCB connection, the negative piston to PCB brass head ring OR we have something shorting out positive to negative briefly. I haven't taken the head apart yet but I believe that is the only point where there could be a short out. So what seems more likely?
> 1 - battery positive losing contact at the head? The battery is being pushed upward by 2 springs and the one in the tail switch is apparently almost fully compressed pushing up on the brass piston.
> 2 - the brass piston negative connection from the battery to the brass PCB ring in the head. The brass piston is being pushed up by the tail spring but is being pushed down by the battery which is rigid against the head PCB.
> It seems to me that if the weight of the battery further compresses the brass tube spring when tapped down that it might overcome the upward push of the tail spring to break the negative contact at the brass ring in the head.
> I believe some people mentioned trying a washer to fix that possible scenario. Has anyone tried this yet? Is there any other possible scenario's that could cause the 'tap-off'?


I agree these are the main 3 possible causes.

I did the same test as varuscelli - tightening and loosening the pcb in the head with the same results - no improvement in "tap-off" problem.

I have also tightened/loosened the pcb in the tail to varying degrees with no change.

I was leaning towards the issue being the brass sleeve disconnecting - and you make a compelling argument above - however, I am now thinking that it is the positive terminal of the battery disconnecting.

I removed the head and tried alternatively compressing the battery and the brass sleeve(compressed using my fingernail). It takes far greater force to compress the sleeve than it does the battery. Also, if you think about it the the sleeve is comparatively light and has to overcome a fairly strong, almost fully compressed spring(tailspring) while the battery is comparatively heavy and only has to overcome the weaker, only partially compressed battery tube spring.

I haven't taken apart the pcb's in the head to see if there is a potential problem there.


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## Sir Lightalot (Jul 30, 2008)

One thing i haven't seen anyone mention, though probably not related to the tap-off thing, is the brass ring inside the tail. You need to have it with the tapered side facing up for the retaining ring to screw down all the way. My switch now gives me a better click. YMMV


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## kaichu dento (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: Liteflex LF5XT - the ultimate AA light? (Part 2)*



yaesumofo said:


> One think which contribute to a flashlights overall qualification as "ultimate" is the end users ability to quick, easy, and domestic service.
> In the case of the Nitecore D10 which this light was compared to (and many prefers this light for some reason) the nitecore has a US distribution who is very good at making sure end users are taken care of. An issue like the tap the tail off issue would have received a TOP priority from 4x7's and I suspect that every light would be checked for this issue before leaving the warehouse. That is if sales weren't suspended all together. I have noticed that Khoo has been very absent. This has coincided with the emergence of this rather major problem. Khoo has said that he has had computer (virus) issues. I placed an order just to determine if sales were still going on. They are, and there is no fix coming from the manufacture yet. OK Lets assume light flux figures out the cause and works up a good solution. what are all current owners of this light going to do? Spend a significant amount of money to send the light back to Taiwan to be repaired? Most likely. The possibility of this happening disqualifies this light from "ultimate" status IMHO.
> 
> Yaesumofo


+1

Having been ready to pull the trigger on an LF5XT and also purchased a D10, it's been a very interesting comparison to see the difference in how Khoo and 7777's have responded to problems which showed up once their respective lights were in peoples hands.

The only text lately from Khoo has been a response pasted in by another CPF'er and I think the silence is deafening; nothing but customers trying to figure out the problem, unaided and ignored.

I'm still very interested in getting an LF5XT, but not if the problem doesn't go away.

By the way Yaesumofo, does your name have any specific meaning? I can imagine one, but probably wrong...



> As easy as KHOO apparently is to deal with nitecore desperately needs a domestic USA distributor in order to succeed in this country.


Apparently you meant LiteFlux. :nana:


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## varuscelli (Jul 31, 2008)

Sir Lightalot said:


> One thing i haven't seen anyone mention, though probably not related to the tap-off thing, is the brass ring inside the tail. You need to have it with the tapered side facing up for the retaining ring to screw down all the way. My switch now gives me a better click. YMMV


 
OK...I'd better check to see if I understand what you're saying. By "tapered side facing up" do you mean that the tapered side should be toward the battery or toward the end of the tailcap? I'm not sure which direction you mean as the "up" direction. 

And are you saying that you reversed the direction yours was originally facing?

As mine is, the tapered side is installed facing toward the end of the tailcap. 

I tried flipping the ring in mine over just to see if it made any difference, and even though I could screw the ring all the way in and snug it down nicely, the tailcap would not fully attach to the body any longer. 

For a few minutes there, I was thinking that a simple upside-down installation of the ring might be causing the problem.


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## matrixshaman (Jul 31, 2008)

GBH2 said:


> I agree these are the main 3 possible causes.
> 
> I did the same test as varuscelli - tightening and loosening the pcb in the head with the same results - no improvement in "tap-off" problem.
> 
> ...



TMG - thanks for clarifying that on bypassing the switch - I did the test in such a hurry as I didn't remember all the details by the time I was typing here. 

GBH2 - I am also leaning toward that conclusion now. The battery positive breaking contact seems more likely than anything else. It was primarily some earlier reports I saw of people using magnets on the positive and stretching springs which didn't seem to make any difference that lead me to believe that was not the problem. I'm guessing Liteflux left this spring fairly compressible to cover all the different battery lengths. My NiMH are a lot shorter than some of the protected Li-Ion 14500's I have. If this spring is the problem than I wonder what the solution will be. A stronger spring might put excessive force on the PCB with the longest batteries. I think only the Liteflux engineers can answer this one. It would be nice if just a spring replacement would fix the problem.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 31, 2008)

..
 ... matrixshamen posed one other good skeptical question back in post 324.

Taken from his 324 post .....
Quote:
I need a little help though from a couple people here who have said it shuts off even when bypassing the tailswitch by shorting the body to the piston. As a former troubleshooting technician and field engineer for many years I learned a lot of things and one was that a lot of times another person or users test and conclusion from their test was not always perfect in execution. So without anyone taking this personally (please) I'd just like to ask if those who have bypassed the switch and found it to still 'tap-off' *are absolutely certain that the brass tube is not losing contact with the brass ring in the head when it is tapped?* I tried doing this myself and found it difficult with the couple minutes I had to test it to keep the piston fully and firmly up against the head ring.
...............................................................

Good Point - but in my personal case - YES

I test mine by compressing it in a large *C-clamp*. Using a 1/2 inch thick piece of hard circular plastic in the rear to bottom-out the brass piston to the brass contact ring in the front. I tighten the C-clamp firmly , get the light turned ON , then turn the clamp so the light is upsidedown and tap the C-clamp on a block of wood.

The LF5XT turns OFF

IMHO ... under those conditions - I can conclude that the only possible place for a disconnect to happen is at the "+" battery terminal inside the piston.

I doubt that an additional spring on the "+" terminal would help.

But now you know my brass piston didn't break contact during my test ... 

Thanks for bringing that up 

TMG


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 31, 2008)

*I will offer a solution to the rear Tap/cutoff's on LF5XT's*

But first a quote from GBH2 about the spring tension :



GBH2 said:


> I removed the head and tried alternatively compressing the battery and the brass sleeve(compressed using my fingernail). It takes far greater force to compress the sleeve than it does the battery. Also, if you think about it the the sleeve is comparatively light and has to overcome a fairly strong, almost fully compressed spring(tailspring) while the battery is comparatively heavy and only has to overcome the weaker, only partially compressed battery tube spring.
> 
> I haven't taken apart the pcb's in the head to see if there is a potential problem there.


.................................................................

This is what I have been saying ..... so I agree with GBH2 on the way that he explained it.

I think the current design allows the "+" battery terminal to loose contact if the light is bumped on the rear.

The way it is - the two springs are counteracting and fighting each other. Increasing the tension of the battery spring will counteract the tension of the tailcap spring, because it pushes the brass piston rearward against the pressure of the tailcap spring ....... thus causing a tendency for even the brass piston to loose contact with the front contact ring. In other words - stronger battery spring may cause *either* of the front contact points to break.


I can see only 1 permanent - long term solution to resolve this Tap/off (undesirable) condition.

* It will require a design change :*

Remove the exterior ridge at the rear of the brass piston so it can pass all the way thru the body. (removal needed for battery change reasons)

Put threads on the contact ring in the head , and threads on the front of the piston - so they can be screwed together making the piston *stationary* (not floating) which will *eliminate* the two springs fighting each other. The piston should not be allowed to move.

*Then* you can put a stronger battery spring inside the piston because it will now be stationary and screwed together with no counteractive forces on it.

...............................................................

_For battery changes_ you would unscrew the head - slide the body to the rear over the stationary brass piston. Then un-screw the brass piston from the head to get to the battery.


This change would allow much more force to be applied to the battery and lessen the chance of rear Tap/cutoff's.

Well ....... that's my solution ...... do you have a better one ??

 TMG


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## 04orgZx6r (Jul 31, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> .................................................................
> 
> 
> dont go away
> .


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 31, 2008)

.. Aww .... 04org went away too soon ....


For my LF5XT rear Tap/off solution ...... go back to post 340 .



the site went down - couldn't finish it in time
.


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## eliteled (Jul 31, 2008)

Hope I won’t spoil the fun here… 

Thought I should post this message and let you know that LiteFlux is working on it.

I just had a phone discussion with LiteFlux brainstorming a quick fix for this “tap-off” problem, and we might have a solution for this problem now. LiteFlux is doing an experiment to make sure the fix works. Please stay tuned.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 31, 2008)

Thanks for the info Gary.

So you are the LiteFlux U.S. Distributor


I didn't know.

yaesumofo ..... will be glad to hear this.

I think he didn't know either.
.


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## LED-holic (Jul 31, 2008)

eliteled said:


> Hope I won’t spoil the fun here…
> 
> Thought I should post this message and let you know that LiteFlux is working on it.
> 
> I just had a phone discussion with LiteFlux brainstorming a quick fix for this “tap-off” problem, and we might have a solution for this problem now. LiteFlux is doing an experiment to make sure the fix works. Please stay tuned.


Glad you're the US distributor now for LiteFlux! It's great to have local representation.

Besides the pressing issue of tapping off, here are some other personal recommendations I'd like to make for the LF5XT:

1. More aggressive knurling - the existing knurling is much too mild and seems more decorative than useful.
2. O-rings seem to stretch too easily on mine. It was the worst problem with O-rings I've had on any light.
3. Somehow fix the .4 second delay for those of us who want instant reaction. Momentary didn't really satisfy me as a good solution for instant on. There has to be some type of creative solution that would be better than this.

If LiteFlux can somehow address these issues the LF5XT would be an awesome light for me.


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## Sigman (Jul 31, 2008)

Closing Part 2 & continuing in Part 3...


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