# Professionals Favorite 17.5 Million Candlepower Spotlight



## lightinsky (Nov 8, 2006)

I was in Advance Auto Parts today and noticed they had the 3 Watt Task Force Led Light that I already bought the other day and am enjoying. Also they had from the same label the Professionals Favorite 17.5 Million Candlepower Spotlight for only $39.88. Wow this thing must be immensley bright. I didn't get it but might do so another time. Any one else notice this monster?


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## FirstDsent (Nov 8, 2006)

I saw it yesterday at AA. It caught my eye too. It says it's a halogen bulb. Our hotwire guys might set me straight, but I don't think you can make a 17.5M CP with a halogen bulb running on a small rechargable battery pack. 

Bernie


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## mdocod (Nov 8, 2006)

yeah i saw that..

I'm sceptical that it could be any brighter than a 15M CP thor... the bulb in it has the "blackened" cap on it... so it doesn't even have a true spotlight version of a bulb in there...

in reality... they can get those figures by taking a lux measurment at just the right distance from the camera....
this picture sortof shows the effects of the beam from the front of a thor.... 





(ignore the "extra" lights on the side, lol...).... you see in the main center beam that there is a tight column of light inside the beam, in some places, that tight column comes to a pretty tight spot of light.. (high concentrations within about a square inch)... this allows them to come up with these BOGUS candlepower ratings and still not be completally blatantly flat out lieing..


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## TigerhawkT3 (Nov 9, 2006)

What does a thread about an incan spotlight have to do with LEDs? :huh2:

Perhaps you meant to put this thread in the "Spotlights/Lanterns/HID" section.


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## jar3ds (Nov 9, 2006)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> What does a thread about an incan spotlight have to do with LEDs? :huh2:
> 
> Perhaps you meant to put this thread in the "Spotlights/Lanterns/HID" section.


 i'm not saying that I would put this thread in this forum... but it is called a spotlight, so thats why i'm sure it was posted here.. breathe


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## Ra (Nov 9, 2006)

MDOCOD,

Please can you enlighten me some more about how you think they measure the CP-output of those spotlights like thor ???

I measured a few thor's a while ago and never got a higher value than 410,000 cp !! (Cyclops Platinum Thor..)

Let me tell you that 15 million cp means that you should measure 15,000,000 lux at one meter distance from the torch, 150,000lux at 10 metres, 1500lux at 100 meters etc...(please use calibrated equipment !!)

Regards,

Ra.


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## electromage (Nov 9, 2006)

Ra said:


> MDOCOD,
> 
> Please can you enlighten me some more about how you think they measure the CP-output of those spotlights like thor ???
> 
> ...



I've always known that those figures were exaggerated, but I had no idea it was that bad! From what distance did you calculate that figure? Could you test some other popular "MCP+" lights?


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## Ra (Nov 9, 2006)

Hi Electromage,

Living in the Netherlands (Holland) its hard for me to get my hands on the spotlights aviable in the US.

It costed me alot of effort to get a few Thors shipped from the US to Holland, they are not aviable in Europe!

About candlepowers I can say this: CP-output is measured in the 'hotest' part of the beam, and only tells you someting about the maximum intensity possible with that lamp and reflector. (Throw..)

However, it doensn't tell you anything of the quantity of light (lumens output)

Those Halogen spotlights put out alot of lumens, but the throw (cp-value) is limited by the surface brightness of the source (filament of the lamp).
And here every lamptype has its limitations.

The Thor 15Mcp can reach 400,000 cp, if you overdrive the lamp you can come close to 1 million cp, but there it ends, or your bulb will blow out !!
CP is a combination of lamptype and reflector-diametre.
So spotlights with smaller reflectors will have lower cp-ratings.

If we take the surface brightness of halogen as 1, the surface brightness of other lamptypes would approx be as follows:

Halogen : 1
HID : 3-5
Xenon short-arc : 40-60
Mercury short arc : 100-120

That means if you would replace a 600watt hologen by a 35watt HID in a torch, you will have a 3-5 times higher cp-output !! So with HID the throw will be better. But lumens-output will be less !!

Maxabeam is an example of high throw with relatively low lumens-output. The result is a needle-thin beam.


Regards,

Ra.


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## mdocod (Nov 9, 2006)

Ra...

for starters, thors don't have any "fine-tune" shimming done to the bulb to makup for imperfections in the position of the filaments, a few candlepower could be gained in "lab tests" where they take time to really perfect bulb position within the housing..

secondly, out of a batch of a lot of reflectors, it could be asssumed that in these "cheap" units there would be some variation in perfection there as well, taking an ideal refector off the assembly line could help gain a few CP..

thirdly, the production versions of the thor probably use smaller gage wire than the prototype version that they used to test with.. going from the stock wiring up to some 14 or 12, or, if you are really ambitious, 10 gage wire.. will gain you a volt or more at the bulb.. making massive improvements in lux.

fourthly: many thors ship wired in such a way that you can only run high or low beam, not both at the same time... running both at the same time should increase lux in that centre point by a measurable amount.

... here's how to try to get some bigger numbers...
stand a few feet from a white wall, you might want to wear some sunglasses for this (will leave spots in vision without)... turn on the thor and move it forward and back away from the wall... somewhere around the 2-6 foot mark (varies from one thor to the next) you will see a center spot become very small, tight, and bright. try to take your measurment where that spot becomes tightest, adjust the position of the meter or the light for finr tuning during testing..

then... multiply by 10. why? because that is how you sell something.. lol (everything from stereo equipment to filtration systems is exagerated in performance so much it's stick, why should flashlights be any different? it's all being sold on the same lousy planet with the same gullable croud.


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## That_Guy (Nov 9, 2006)

mdocod,

I think you are giving these companies far too much credit.

I feel that this method more accurately describes how they arrive at their cp figures:

Step 1: Reach into rectum
Step 2: Pull out a number bigger than everyone else's


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## cmacclel (Nov 9, 2006)

Are you sure about the formula's? As far as I know it's not linear. The standard on the forum is Lux at 1 meter. But if you measure at 2 meters you need to muliple the Lux reading by 3. If measuring the lux at 3 meters you need to times the reading by 9 I believe to get the 1 meter lux values.

Mac




Ra said:


> MDOCOD,
> 
> Please can you enlighten me some more about how you think they measure the CP-output of those spotlights like thor ???
> 
> ...


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## Ra (Nov 12, 2006)

MDOCOD,

Multiply by ten ???? Make that 40 !!!

The Thors I got my hands on all had reflectors with large imperfections in the shape, but those imperfections were not big enough to pull down the theoretical cp-performance. However you are absolutely right about the importance of the lamp-position, I should have mentioned that I checked the reflector-performance AFTER repostioning the lamp..
Ofcource if I would use a lamp with a much smaller filament or arc, the imperfections will become a problem !!

ThatGuy: You are right on the spot !!

And Mac: 

At some distance from a torch the entire reflector should be lit by the light-source (filament or arc). From that point the light follows the inverse square law: So if you incease the distance 2-fold you should measure 1/4 the lux-output. So if you go from 1 meter to two you divide by four, not 3..And from one to 3 meter indeed you divide by 9.

The reason: If the reflector is fully lit, the amount of lux an object receives is determined by the apparent dimensions of the source, the surface brightness does not change! When you increase the distance from 1 to 2 meter, the apparent diameter of the reflector will be divided by 2. And when the diameter is divided by 2, the surface is divided by 4 !! So the object "sees" a surface 4 times smaller at 2 m than it does at 1m. So the lux readout at 2m will be 1/4 th of the lux readout at 1m!

.. But the numbers I posted are exactly folowing that inverse square law! So are not linear !

1,500lux at 100m equals 100x100x1,500 so 15,000,000 lux at one meter...

And 150,000 lux at 10m = 10x10x150,000= 15,000,000 at 1 meter

If your torches do not follow the inverse square law, then you are probably measuring the lux-output too close to the torch. (reflector not yet fully lit by the source..)

Ofcource actual measurements will be influenced (?) by the absorbtion in the atmosphere and the tolerance-differences in acurracy of the various ranges of your lux-meter.


Regards,

Ra.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 12, 2006)

I think ThatGuy's method is clearly the most reliable and scientifically objective...and even passes the "smell" test.


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