# PM 1127VF LB



## las3r (Jan 13, 2012)

Hi does anyone on here have a PM 1127VF LB ???? 

i would like more input on that lathe from a Member here before i purchase it :devil: and also to see if its worth the money ect......


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## StrikerDown (Jan 13, 2012)

It looks like a sweet little lathe, especially the LB model, having the bore diameter of larger machines (Same bore diameter as my PM 1440!) makes it pretty versatile for a smaller package. It won't have the power or rigidity of the larger machines but for a flashlight hobby it looks quite capable. Of course as always I recommend buying the largest machine you have space and budget for... but that's just me!


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## Al Combs (Jan 13, 2012)

Its one serious downside is to change gears for different threads requires gloves, time and some serious head scratching. A 12x36 just requires a few twists of the knobs. Not counting the switch from 120 to 127 tooth gears for the change from imperial to metric.


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## las3r (Jan 13, 2012)

once i get threading down it will not bother me as much on switching gears, im looking at this 1 because its not to big or small and want something bigger than a 7x12 mini lathe....good for my [email protected] builds


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## BVH (Jan 13, 2012)

Las3r, join this Yahoo Group. 80% of it is info on the 1127. 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bluemachining/messages


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## precisionworks (Jan 13, 2012)

> one serious downside is to change gears for different threads requires gloves, time and some serious head scratching


Just a little OT but ........

CNC lathes cut both ISO threads & metric threads with no change gearing because the leadscrew & spindle can be adjusted for any pitch.

Some older American made machines cut all ISO threads without gear changes but cut no metric threads.

Some older Euro lathes cut all metric threads without gear changes but cut no ISO threads.

A modern manual lathe will cut both ISO & metric threads but at least 3 gears have to be changed. I've seen no non-CNC lathe that cuts all the common ISO & metric threads without changing at least 3 gears.


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## Al Combs (Jan 14, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> I've seen no non-CNC lathe that cuts all the common ISO & metric threads without changing at least 3 gears.


If I could ask a quick question. If the 120 and 127 tooth gears count as two, what is the third?

Thanks Barry


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## gadget_lover (Jan 14, 2012)

The key phrase here is "cuts all the common threads". 

My lathe will cut 8 different threads at a time without changing a gear. I just move a lever on the gearbox. If I change one gear I get a choice of 8 other threads. Change a different gear and I get yet another 8 choices.

In essence, you typically have change gear A driving the stacked 120/127 gear which drives change gear B which drives the 8 position gear box.

I can get any choice of threads by changing as few as zero gears or as many as two. I do not count the 127/120 gears since they stay in position and you chose whether or not they are used in the drive train.

Daniel


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## precisionworks (Jan 14, 2012)

I can cut 4 thread pitches using two small gears + the 120/127. 



> If the 120 and 127 tooth gears count as two, what is the third?


Al, in the chart above look in the upper box of numbers and there are two gears that are always changed + the 120/127. A 24 tpi was cut recently & that required 56t on top, 120/127 in the middle & 54t on the bottom. On a good day it takes 20 minutes, dropping parts into the abyss often adds another 10-15 minutes


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## Al Combs (Jan 14, 2012)

Thanks for the explanation Barry. The 11x27 between the variable frequency and the large bore does look like a nice machine.


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## precisionworks (Jan 15, 2012)

FWIW Matt uses the term "variable speed" and not variable frequency. He states that the motor is 120 volt 1ph & that eliminates the the use of a VFD - which can only be used with a 3ph motor.

I'm guessing that he uses a DC motor controlled by a DC motor drive & there's nothing wrong with that - DC drives were the king of variable speed for many years. The development of low cost AC micro drives has taken a big chunk of the DC drive business. Manufacturers still use DC drives when trying to stay at a price point as it is a little less money than a VFD. 

Cost aside the AC drive (vector drive) will outperform the DC drive in most machine tool applications.


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## Maglin (Jan 15, 2012)

I had the PM1127VF-LB lathe and just recently got a PM1236. I also thought that changing gears wasn't that big an issue but it is. You have to change gears to cut the threads and then change gears go have known feeds. The gears need to be honed out as they are to tight a fit. The pot aluminum bushings are crap and break at the most inoperatune times. The spindle is kind of a L1 spindle but it's not. It has no taper on its snout. Changing chucks kind of sucks and they are held on by a stud and nut. And the most important thing is the power. It didn't have it for me. I cut a lot more steel than aluminum and I just didn't have the power to take over .025" cuts and those had to be done at a very slow feed. Now it is a good lathe but it just doesn't deliver for me.

Now the PM1236 is another story. It is a lot louder than the 1127 and weights more than 2x as much. I did a cut in a test piece of 1.5" steel and with a carbide tool I took a .05" DOC (.1" diam reduction) at .008"/rev feed at 550 RPM and it blew right through it with no problem. Their was about 5HP available for the cut through the speed reduction gear box. At 700 RPM is where it started to max out at .1" @ .008"/rev feed. But also their was maybe 3.5HP for the cut. Now I don't have to change gears for most threads and if I do they are much easier to change and require no modification to use. Also the fit and finish on the PM1236 is better than the PM1127. Their was no burrs that had to be removed and both the cross slide and compound are hand fitted (rather poorly but still hand fitted) and used tappered gibs instead of the straight gibs on the 1127.

I highly recommend you look at the PM1236. I did a lot of work on the PM1127 but just got tired of changing gears to do single point threading. If I was able to afford the 1440 I would have gotten it. The biggest hurdle is power requirements. The PM1236 is a 220v 2HP machine and the PM1127 is a 110v 1HP machine. And the PM1127VF does use a DC motor with a speed control. When you are turning at a low speed you loose power so at say 400 RPM you have maybe less then 1/2 HP available. With the PM1236 it uses a gear reduction as so you have more power at slower spindle speeds. The best is a VFD on a 3 phase motor on a gear head lathe. You get better surface finish and variable speed, but as you slow it down past 50% power starts to drop off. I have a VFD on my Bridgeport and it really is nice not to have to change belts to change spindle speeds.

And in parting where you want to put it will make a difference as well. The PM1127 can be taken apart and 2 people can easily put it in a basement. The PM1236 is a little heavy for that. It could still be done but would require some rigging to get it down a flight of stairs. I don't like dragging chips in the house so the basement was a no go for me. I have all my machines in my garage. Currently I only have 1 3ph machine and 2 1ph machines. I eventually want all of them on 3ph power. The PM1236 could do with a 3HP 3ph motor, but as delivered it is a very nice machine.

Edit: I forgot about the spindle bore. It's not 1.5". It's like 1.495 or something like that. Which means it actually needs to be opened up to 1.505 to pass 1.5" stock through it. But opening it up isn't the easiest thing to do. I'm going to try using a tool post grinder with a long arbor that I'll make to see if I can't enlarge it to just over 1.5" so I can pass 1.5" stock through it like I had envisioned.


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## precisionworks (Jan 15, 2012)

To open the 1.495" bore the best bet is a carbide tipped chucking reamer. About $150 on McMaster & 1/3 of that if you can find the size on eBay. Shank is only 12.5" long so you have to turn an extension. Not a hard job as the reamer shaft is unhardened (usually). Run the spindle about 50 rpm (or the slowest speed closest to 50). Pour all the oil you can on the reamer, flood the bore with oil, feed briskly for about 2" & withdraw with the spindle still turning. Clean reamer, clean bore, relube, go back in and advance another 2", etc.

Honing with a coarse ball hone will open the spindle another .001" or more depending on how long you hone.


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## Al Combs (Jan 16, 2012)

Las3r had mentioned the ability to do Mag builds was on his list. The Mag-D on my desk at the moment is 1.553 inch. Wouldn't that make the 1.5 inch reamer a moot point? Anyway the next size up from 1-1/2 that McMaster sells is 1-3/4 or too big of a jump. MSC has listed 1.5625 and 1.6250 in chucking reamers, but they are only HSS not carbide. The same as Enco had.

I am curious about this because in some of the PM1236 threads I've seen people mentioned the spindle being large enough to do Mag-D's. I guess I always figured there was some kind of rounding error in the Mag's favor. Those 6 inch Bison chucks the two Wills use could just about swallow a 2D whole. If it's more than that, wouldn't you just use a steady or a big live center in the tailstock? Depending of course on what you were doing. I guess if you want to re-thread a 5-1/2 Mag-D you need a PM1440.


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## Maglin (Jan 16, 2012)

A reamer was one of the idea's I had thought of. I think I might even be able to pick one up for not to much. I'm going to start looking around for one. If I can pick one up for around $15 it definitely be the way to go. You for sure couldn't hurt the current surface finish of the bore. Also it is a good idea to pick up a 5MT dead center for either lathe. Less error not having to use an adapter for 5MT-3MT when you are working between centers.


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## BVH (Jan 16, 2012)

Maglin said:


> Also it is a good idea to pick up a 5MT dead center for either lathe. Less error not having to use an adapter for 5MT-3MT when you are working between centers.



I bought a carbide tipped Bison 5MT dead center and it does not seat in the spindle bore. I really did not fully investigate why. (I had just got the machine as was still setting it up) But I remember looking in from the drive pulley side and seeing all kinds of daylight.


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## BVH (Jan 16, 2012)

I don't have any 3 or 4D mags but here's some Mag 2D and simulated 3D & 4D shots in my 1236. 2D body without tailcap and head is recessed 2" behind face of chuck jaws (3-jaw) when push into spindle as far as it will go. With 1 additional battery placed against face of body, face of light body would be about 5/8" out beyond jaw face and with 2 additional batteries, it's out about 2 7/8".


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## las3r (Jan 16, 2012)

i would love to get a bigger lathe than the 1127 LB but that's all i can fit in the space i have  

So can the 1127 LB even fit a 2D mag inside ? i hate to purchase one and find out it will not fit a 2D mag...

With the 1127LB im just planning on making my own heatsinks,boring out my flashlights and learning how to do threads ect....i don't think ill be cutting steel may be copper if it can lol

sounds like the 1127 is a POS.... but i dont no what else to buy in my budget/space i have besides a little 7x12 lathe lol


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## BVH (Jan 16, 2012)

I just asked the question on the bluemachine forum I linked above. Not sure if you have to register or not to just view but here's the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bluemachining/messages

There's a number of people happy with their 1127 machines, mostly 1127, non-large bore because those are fairly new and the latest shipment just went out to some waiting about 10 months. I believe Matt (Machinetoolsonline) said he actually had a few left over to keep in-stock, which, I guess, is rare these days.


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## las3r (Jan 16, 2012)

Thanks BVH for asking.....cant wait to find out


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## darkzero (Jan 16, 2012)

Maglin said:


> Also it is a good idea to pick up a 5MT dead center for either lathe. Less error not having to use an adapter for 5MT-3MT when you are working between centers.





BVH said:


> I bought a carbide tipped Bison 5MT dead center and it does not seat in the spindle bore. I really did not fully investigate why.




As Bob stated, that may not work.

In my shop class the big American lathes also used spindle sleeves. Since there were large centers in the tool room I asked my instructor why the use of a sleeve for the spindle. I forget all the details regarding which lathes had what but there were a number of reasons.

-Some lathe spindles had an odd MT taper (MT4.5).

-Some lathe spindles had a proprietary taper (I think he said generally on those that used collet sleeves for collet closures).

-Although some had MT5 or MT7 tapers (or somthing like that), when using a full size center (rather than a smaller center with the sleeve), it would have too much overhang. Even though the spindles had the same taper per foot as a common size Morse Taper the taper was on the small side.

-Usually the sleeve had the same inside taper as the tailstock so the sleeve allowed you to use the same center in the head or tail so you wouldn't have to buy additional sizes.


Perhaps that's why the headstock/spindle sleeves are so short? If you ever search for them you will find that they are not commonly sold as if they are not "universal" for lathe to lathe. Mostly what you will find are common MT reducing sleeves with the tang on the outside & a slot for the tang on the inside. 

Also with the common reducing sleeves, it seems like they are generally meant to be used with morse taper drills since the have the slot inside for the tang. Center don't have tangs. I know there's at least one reducing sleeve that I have where anytime I use a live center with it, the arbor is not long enough for me to eject it with a drift. I have slip a spacer inside to fill the gap.

Not sure what the real reason is but I assume for older lathes which did not have large spindle bores, maybe a full size center would not fit the spindle bore? And maybe for modern lathes with larger spindle bores, the sleeve to simply allow one common size for the headstock & tailstock?

Now that Bob has stated a MT5 center did not fit his spindle, I'm curious as to why? I do remember past the spindle taper that there was a step or two inside the spindle.


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## BVH (Jan 16, 2012)

I'll take another look and report back. That Bison 5MT is such a nice "hunk" of hardware. Hate to think I wasted my money, but oh well.


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## darkzero (Jan 16, 2012)

BVH said:


> I'll take another look and report back. That Bison 5MT is such a nice "hunk" of hardware. Hate to think I wasted my money, but oh well.



Cool, thanks. If you have some Dykem around to use that would be great.



I don't work on Mags & I know WillQ has posted on this before but I was curious....


Here's a 4D Mag.








The spindle itself can swallow 4.75" of the body.







The length of my 6-jaw chuck & adapter is 5.5", total it swallows 10.25".


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## BVH (Jan 16, 2012)

Will, I don't see the gap adjusting screw in the well area of the gap? And what are those chips doing in the gap and on the bed? :nana:


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## darkzero (Jan 16, 2012)

BVH said:


> Will, I don't see the gap adjusting screw in the well area of the gap? And what are those chips doing in the gap and on the bed? :nana:



No it's there. Unlike all the others I have seen, mine came with a set screw there instead of a hex socket screw. :thinking:
I've never removed the gap before.

Oh, those aren't chips, those are some of my nose hairs that must have fallen out. My nose has been pretty itchy lately.


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## darkzero (Jan 16, 2012)

las3r said:


> sounds like the 1127 is a POS...



I wouldn't go as far as to say that. As with any lathe, it has it limtations. Just because it can't fit a Mag in the spindle does not mean it's a POS. Try finding another lathe out there in this size class to have a spindle bore that size. 

I'm sure the 1127VF is a great lathe. I originally purchased this lathe too before the LB was even available. See my thread title.

New Lathe...Changed from PM 1127-VF To a PM1236 
Started by darkzero‎, 11-03-2009 06:02 PM 

I purchased it without the intent of working on Maglites & yet for many of the same reasons Bob & Maglin have stated I changed my mind days later. Luckily I was on the preorder list & they did not receive their shipment yet. But my decision wasn't because I thought it was a POS, it was simply because I wanted "more" in a lathe & I had to go bigger to get that. IMHO for it size class & price range it's one of the best deals (if not the best) available compared to other offerings. 

You'll never know what owning a lathe will lead you to. When I first saw a lathe, I thought what the heck would I do with one? Now that I have one, I think that I can't live without one. I got into because of flashlights, now I don't even work on lights anymore. 



I don't want to sound like a broken record & say "it" but "it" really is true. With a big lathe you can always work on & make small parts. But with a small lathe you can't always work on big parts. And when you find out you don't have "enough" lathe you''ll be like many of us here wanting to buy something larger as many of us do (only took me 8 months to out grow mine).

For instance, I got a new watch band but I didn't like the polished buckle. I wanted to use the black buckle but the tang is not as wide.








So with the 12X36 I made a couple of spacers that are 0.15" dia, 0.040" wide, with a through hole of 0.065". One sneeze & I would have to make another as they would be lost in the carpet abyss.


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## cmacclel (Jan 16, 2012)

I used this lathe to made hundreds of M*G's

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-multipurpose-machine-with-micro-feed-44142.html

The 1127 would be even better. My Grizzly 12x36 G4003G was ideal as it had a 1 5/8 bore. My current lathe has a 2" through hole 

Gear Changes stinks...........I would not buy a lathe without a quick change gearbox again period. All you wind up doing is changing gears. I even sunk $200 into my lathe and made a variable speed feed control and left the 20 TPI gears installed.

Realize if you want to turn a part down and leave a nice finish using the power feed thats one set of gears. Then you want to thread.........gear change.......go from 20tpi to 28tpi gear change........

Mac


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## darkzero (Jan 16, 2012)

cmacclel said:


> Gear Changes stinks...........I would not buy a lathe without a quick change gearbox again period.



Hell yeah! That was the #1 reason why I purchased the 1127 from having the 814. It was also the #1 reason why I then changed to the 1236 because the 1127 doesn't really have a change gearbox.





cmacclel said:


> I used this lathe to made hundreds of M*G's
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-multipurpose-machine-with-micro-feed-44142.html



Anyone else notice most of HF's lathes & mills have gone up a lot in price? Look at the 814.

http://www.harborfreight.com/8-inch-x-12-inch-precision-benchtop-lathe-44859.html

It costs $999 now. I paid $385 OTD for mine.


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## BVH (Jan 17, 2012)

BVH said:


> I'll take another look and report back. That Bison 5MT is such a nice "hunk" of hardware. Hate to think I wasted my money, but oh well.



Well.....the bad news is that I have no idea why I thought the Bison 5MT dead center would not fit? The good news is that the Bison 5MT fits just fine as froghairs. Total runout is between .00025 and .0003".


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## Al Combs (Jan 21, 2012)

Thanks to BVH & DZ for the shots of the Mag-D's being swallowed by the spindle. Interesting how the 1127's 1.5 inch bore is not the same as the 1236's 1.5 inch bore. At least it isn't for the first 4.75 inches. Will, was your watchband made in a collet? I've never seen one in your pictures. Thanks guys.

This might be helpful Las3r, depending on how large the steady rest for the PM1127VF-LB is. You might be able to add ball bearing to the fingers of the steady like the LMS SC2 has. Then a hose clamp holding a brass shim to the outside of the Mag battery tube would allow cutting/threading without marring the finish.

I guess this is an unorthodox approach, but in our shop we have used wooden Q-tips successfully to center the work. With the chuck holding the work lightly at SLOW speed, the Q-tip bites into a cutting tool being fed by the cross slide while you watch the reading on a DTI. A bit like the way you would use an edge finder but without the wobble. A DTI is also helpful in determining when the steady fingers make contact with the work. The one near the tool being a little loose so it doesn't bind.

As far as the PM1127VF-LB being a POS, I wish I could afford a lathe as nice as that. If it's a matter of space or money, no apologies necessary. I looks to be nicer and less expensive than the equivalent Sieg lathe.


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## KC2IXE (Jan 21, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> ...snip.... I've seen no non-CNC lathe that cuts all the common ISO & metric threads without changing at least 3 gears.



How about the HLVH-EM?


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## precisionworks (Jan 21, 2012)

> How about the HLVH-EM?


OK, if you have $50k to spend AND you can work with 11" swing & 18" between centers the HLV-H-EM would work :nana:


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## KC2IXE (Jan 21, 2012)

I've been watching for an EM - in good shape they are a BIT less than that (say 17K) - you can get almost new sharp cones for like 30K - but does go to show there is at least ONE non CNC lathe that will do english and metric threading without changing gears (of course, the english/metric knob basically is doing the job for you)


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## Maglin (Jan 21, 2012)

darkzero said:


> The length of my 6-jaw chuck & adapter is 5.5", total it swallows 10.25".




LoL. That is funny. I've been gone for a while. I bought some old NIB USA Made Bison 5MT center and I've never even put it in the spindle. I'm pretty glad Bob tried it out again and it works as intended. I haven't put a DTI on my internal spindle tapper but I think it's out a tad on mine. It is a good idea to have your gap closer SHCS installed. I still have to build my dog plate and drive dog to hold up to 2" round bar. That is the main reason I haven't even put my 5MT center in the spindle. Now I have put my 5MT to 5C adapter in to see how it fits and I like it. Worth the $42 from Grizzly. Now to build the rear spindle spider/collet closer base.

And about the PM1127VF-LB. I'm sorry to come off sounding like it's a POS because it's not. It's a very good lathe. It just doesn't compare to the PM1236 in every reguard. I really didn't care for the compound slide set-up. I could pull up and push down on the compound slide and make it move as much as .004" and that is after I cleaned it all up and stoned it all flat. That made parting off impossible. I mean I broke so many carbide inserts due to the compound tool holder rigidity issues. Those issues aside it can be fixed. Just needs some work done on it. The PM1236 is good to go right out of the crate. I did use the hell out of the 1127 and made a lot of good accurate tools and parts. I really liked the Sunon 3 Jaw Chuck that came with it. It is better than the chucks the PM1236 came with. The steady rest on the 1127 is pretty small. With bearings on it you might be able to fit a D Mag in it, but probably not anything much larger.

What I was trying to say is if you can save up the extra scratch and you have the room it's definitely a very very good idea to upgrade to the PM1236. It's just better in almost all reguards except the chuck. Just know that their could be a fairly long wait when you order any lathe through QMT. Some people are going on 10 months now. I had to wait 7 months for my lathe and mill to arrive. I'm going to have to share a few pics of my set-ups on here. When I get the 5C collet closer finished I'll put some up and show some things I've done to the lathe.


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## darkzero (Jan 22, 2012)

Al Combs said:


> Will, was your watchband made in a collet? I've never seen one in your pictures.



Nope, I only have some small DA collects but didn't use them to make the spacers.





Maglin said:


> It is a good idea to have your gap closer SHCS installed.



As I mentioned to Bob, It's there, always has been. But I don't have a SHCS like you guys, mine came with a SS.
















Maglin said:


> I still have to build my dog plate and drive dog to hold up to 2" round bar.



Do you have your lathe bolted down?




Maglin said:


> Now I have put my 5MT to 5C adapter in to see how it fits and I like it. Worth the $42 from Grizzly. Now to build the rear spindle spider/collet closer base.



I miss using a collet closer (I don't care for collet chucks except for Speed Chucks types like Sjorgen & PBA). Are you using a Grizzly G4026 collect closer for the G4003 or a custom fitted one?

EDIT: Well the Grizzly comes with the closer base & the MT to 5C adapter so I guess you're not using the Grizzly unit. I wonder if the Grizzly units are halfway decent?


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## StrikerDown (Jan 22, 2012)

Maglin said:


> Now I have put my 5MT to 5C adapter in to see how it fits and I like it. Worth the $42 from Grizzly. Now to build the rear spindle spider/collet closer base.



I'm very interested in this, if you could post it here it would be fantastic!

I am looking for a way to use a 5 C in the spindle behind a 4 jaw without the cost of a full lever type collet closer... looks like this would be ideal.


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## Maglin (Jan 22, 2012)

I have the lathe on a sub base with some hockey puck leveling feet. Made getting the twist out to within .0002" very easy. 

I have plans to at first build the spider/closer base that will thread into the spindle. At first I'm going to make a 5C drawbar and get all the parts together to make an actual collet closer. I'm pretty excited about getting the 5C collet closer all finished. I have to ream out the spindle bore to at least 1.505 or even 1.510 so I can pass 1.5" stock through it. Just looking for an affordable or surplus reamer to get that job done. I agree on the collet chucks. They are a PITA to use with all the cranking you have to do. I have some plans from a 50's issue of Popular Mechanics to build a speed 5C collet chuck. I might make one just to do it. Looks like a fun project and might come in handy if I have to use some long stock.

Sorry didn't catch your post that you had your gap closer installed. I like it since it's hidden. 

I have a question. Do any of your that have a PM1236 have your flood coolant hooked up and running? I have a vortex blast cooler but don't currently have a compressor that can run it and my next purchase is a gallon of Koolmist 77 for my lathe and mill. I'm thinking of getting some of that linked plastic nozzels and line for the lathe to replace the very hard to bend line and nozzle. I just wondered how you all liked your coolant pump if you've used it and did your stand end up leaking everywhere? I was thinking of just putting some sealer around the bed base to stop coolant from going into the bases.


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## darkzero (Jan 22, 2012)

Maglin said:


> I have the lathe on a sub base with some hockey puck leveling feet.



Just curious cause if you turn between centers at higher RPMs you really need the lathe bolted down. The bigger the dog drive, the worse it gets. So far I really have only threaded and it gets annoying not being able to use the higher speeds. But I don't use it often.



Maglin said:


> I have plans to at first build the spider/closer base that will thread into the spindle. At first I'm going to make a 5C drawbar and get all the parts together to make an actual collet closer.



Please post when you finish. I was looking at the Grizzly closer since it would require no major modifications but I'm not sure about it's quality, collect closers are usually much more expensive than what they are asking. But I think I'd rather go with a speed chuck if I can ever find a deal on one.




Maglin said:


> Do any of your that have a PM1236 have your flood coolant hooked up and running?
> 
> I have a vortex blast cooler but don't currently have a compressor that can run it.
> 
> I was thinking of just putting some sealer around the bed base to stop coolant from going into the bases.



I never even ran my pump, who knows if it even works. Too messy for me. I also have a vortex cooler, mine is an Exair. I mostly cut everything dry & use the cold gun but I do apply lube manually in certain applications. Definitely need to use sealer. Before i mounted the lathe to the chip pan & base, I applied RTV around all the bolt holes under the lathe's base & on the bolts. I suspect it will leak into the bases if you don't.


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## precisionworks (Jan 22, 2012)

My lathe has a coolant pump (brand new according to the prior owner) & is has never been turned on ... might use it if drilling or reaming titanium but can't imagine running it for anything else. MQL is the best method I've found whenever the nozzle can get to the tool/workpiece contact.


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## Chicago X (Jan 22, 2012)

How much compressor does one need to run the air cooling setup ?


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## BVH (Jan 22, 2012)

Coolant pump came out of the stand as soon as I unboxed it and was put in a corner of the cemented, 6' crawl space under the house.


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## precisionworks (Jan 22, 2012)

Chicago X said:


> How much compressor does one need to run the air cooling setup ?



7. 5 real hp (or two 5hp units that actually make 3hp each)


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## BVH (Jan 22, 2012)

Equipment and utility costs considered, air cooling seems very expensive and noisy.


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## StrikerDown (Jan 22, 2012)

BVH said:


> Coolant pump came out of the stand as soon as I unboxed it and was put in a corner of the cemented, 6' crawl space under the house.



Speaking of expensive, that was a pricey way to get a sump pump for your crawl space! :nana:


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## darkzero (Jan 22, 2012)

precisionworks said:


> 7. 5 real hp (or two 5hp units that actually make 3hp each)





BVH said:


> Equipment and utility costs considered, air cooling seems very expensive and noisy.



And that's just for the 15 cfm model.

What isn't expensive here? 

Just the smallest Exair Cold Air Gun is $300. But there are other manufacturers that make smaller & less expensive guns.


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## BVH (Jan 22, 2012)

StrikerDown said:


> Speaking of expensive, that was a pricey way to get a sump pump for your crawl space! :nana:



Well said!! Got a good chuckle out of me!


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## Maglin (Jan 22, 2012)

I'm getting a 5HP compressor IR probably on a 120 gallon vertical tank. The vortex cold air gun uses a lot of air. As much that comes out the cold side goes out the hot side. I'm debating on getting a 7HP model but I can get into a 5HP compressor at over half the price. Like around $600 compared to $1400. Both are single phase with the 7HP being all new and compressor rebuilt. Until then I have a crappy horz. Craftsman rotary oil less compressor.

As for the coolant pump I guess I'll just throw some Koolmist 77 in it and see how it runs. It looks very cheap and probably loud.


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## precisionworks (Jan 22, 2012)

> air cooling seems very expensive and noisy.


+1

If your factory has a 50hp rotary screw it isn't a problem. If your home shop has the average "big box" 5hp compressor (meaning 3 actual hp) it will make around 10-11 scfm. The smallest Exair needs 15 scfm so a minimum of two compressors is needed (or one compressor that has a 7.5hp motor). Noise isn't too bad at 70 dBA ... not counting the 100 dBA noise level from two recip compressors running in tandem 

A little less costly at $20 (and nearly as effective for some operations) is a warm air gun:







Flood is effective & really messy. Mist is not bad but still messy. MQL is king


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## Maglin (Jan 22, 2012)

What is MQL? I forgot to ask last time I saw it mentioned.


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## precisionworks (Jan 22, 2012)

Maglin said:


> What is MQL?


Minimum Quantity Lubrication (aka near dry machining) is a newer technology, roughly 15 years old. A tiny amount of vegetable based oil is dripped into an airstream which carries the large droplets to the work.


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