# New LEMAX LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.



## Dmitriyrus

*New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

*Update information : This thread about XeRay XV-LX70
The difference from Lemax LX70 can be found here:
*http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthrea.php?378748-XV-LX70-vs-Lemax-LX70



















*XeRay™ XV-LX70 description*
*Quality & Design*
This HID searchlight meets the demand of IK07 protection index against mechanical impact according to EU standard and IP68 protection index against liquid intrusion according to EU standard.
*Body materials and surface treatmen*t
Aerospace Aluminum alloy 6061 T6, 6082, Marine Aluminum Alloy 5083. All surfaces are hard anodized per MIL-A-8625.
*HID light engine*
This HID searchlight is powered by our propriety XeVision™ XePuck™ high efficiency digital ballast. Only genuine German brand HID bulbs are used, driven by our patented XeSparQ™ igniter. The emitted light from this source is formed to a precise beam by means of an electroformed (EF) 100 mm diameter parabolic reflector of highest precision and quality.
*Lamp reflector
*The outstanding reflector performance has been accomplished by using electro forming (EF) technology and high reflectance in the visible spectrum through a special Al coating and protection layer. The parabolic reflector surface is without visible distortions resulting in exceptional beam geometry and efficiency.
*Power control electronics*
Where necessary, all electronic contacts are gold plated. Electronics are RoHS compliant. An integrated power management system allows powering the HID searchlight with the attached battery pack or through an external power supply (12 VDC supply: wall outlet, vehicle system, generator). Furthermore, Dual Power mode can be locked for single Power use though this power management system.
*Front glass lens*
Very strong hardened and scratch proof and heat proof tempered Borosilicate glass. The glass is tested against impact according to the EU standard.
*Battery pack*
The safest available Li-Ion battery cells with highest quality are used for the battery packs. The batteries feature a protection circuit, and are designed for fast charging and many hundreds of charge cycles.

*XeRay™ XV-LX70 specifications*
Dual Light source power (DPM), switchable: 50 W and 70 W
Luminous flux: 5300 lumens (50 W) and 7500 lumens (70 W)
HID bulb life: 2000 hours with DL50/740 and XeSparQ™
Color temperature: 4000 °K @ 50 W
Input power: 12V DC
Reflector: Electro-formed (EF) parabolic Ni cup, 100 mm *∅*
Beam pattern approx.: center beam 1º, spill ring 15º @ 70 W
Effective illumination distance: 1300+m @70 W, 1000+m @50 W
Maximum lighting distance: 3000 m / 3280 yd.
Magnetic rotary ring switch: OFF, left turn 5 0W , right turn 70 W
Ingress protection: IP68
Water resistance: 50 m / 164 ft. 
Rechargeable Li-Ion battery pack 14.4 VDC, 8500 mA
Battery pack life cycles: 1000
Battery pack run time: 140 min. / 100 min. (50/70 W)
Battery pack charge time: 350 min. (at 20°C)
Working temperature: -20°C [-4°F] up to +60°C [+140°F]
Max. working temp.: +120°C [+248°F] , max. 1 min.
*Head bezel diameter: 117 mm* / 4.61"
Body diameter: 69 mm/ 2.72"
Length: 318 mm / 12.52"
Weight with handle: 2200 g [4.85 lb.]
Body: Al alloy 6082 with rubber O-ring protection
Surface treatment: Hard anodizing: MIL-A-8625 mat black
Handle: Fiber reinforced ABS, removable
Tripod mount: 2 standard photographic tripod screw holes
Bulb change time: approx. 1 min.


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## Patriot

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Awesome light! I wonder if AE will once again market this under their name or if it will be a Lemax exclusive product? 

I'm guessing this is a $2500-$3000 light?

The reflector size and runtime make this an serious performer. It looks like they've replaced the aluminum handle with a polycarbonate molded handle.


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Patriot said:


> Awesome light! I wonder if AE will once again market this under their name or if it will be a Lemax exclusive product?
> 
> I'm guessing this is a $2500-$3000 light?
> 
> The reflector size and runtime make this an serious performer. It looks like they replaced the aluminum handle with a polycarbonate molded handle.



Yes the handle is no longer aluminum. and this light is suitable for scuba diving.

Well someone stole my thunder, That is a joint project between XeVision and Lemax. They have always used our ballasts inside. We also helped with the electroformed reflector. This unit kills all the competition. I was planning to unveil in the next couple of days, but now the cat is out of the bag. 
AE is out of the picture, and has been out for a long time. XeVision is the exclusive source for North America, and the units are being assembled in the USA by XeVision for the North American market. The housing parts and battery pack are still from Lemax. We are not ready to announce the price yet.


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## Patriot

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Apparently the LX70 is 1900. euros.

Since XeVision pricing isn't determined yet can you tell us if it's using 18650 cells, and if so, is that 10-12? Also, it has a 1000 hour bulb life, is this a 50W lamp over driven at 70W? Can you tell us what lamp it uses.

Thanks.

With regards to the other thread, when I saw this product I figured this is what the Xe50-70 was all about. I just couldn't believe that you let Lemax beat you to the announcement after all the delays and build up! :huh:

It would have been so much more fun had we found out through you a week ago, had a album full of product pictures and specs with XeVision's name on it, including beamshots by BVH, and with a group buy price ready to go. We love ya buddy but you really need to hire someone to manage your marketing side.


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## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

............


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## The_Driver

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Here is a pdf-brochure on the light


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

We will offer 2 bulb variants, one using a std D1S bulb, the other using our igniter socket (XeSparQ), and a DL50/740 installed.

*Dmitriyrus says:* "dirty light" I have used it a lot with a standard bulb, and I have no idea what he is talking about.


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## Colonel Sanders

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

How does this light compare in performance to a "Barn Burner".


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## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> We will offer 2 bulb variants, one using a std D1S bulb, the other using our igniter socket (XeSparQ), and a DL50/740 installed.
> 
> *Dmitriyrus says:* "dirty light" I have used it a lot with a standard bulb, and I have no idea what he is talking about.



Here are the photos - different Polarion PH50.
The photo shows that the light has a yellow top and white bottom.
On the Polarion PH40 I saw uniform illumination.
On Xeray 75W, light is also very uniform


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Colonel Sanders said:


> How does this light compare in performance to a "Barn Burner".



Really there is no comparison in terms of build quality and optical quality. The barn Burner was a brute force instrument, built to a price. The LX70 is a refined high end product with performance to match.


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## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Xeray, this flashlight (with lamp D2s) - the best of all.
He lacks one thing - normal battery indicator.
I know that in Lemax LX50 have a low battery indicator ...
Flashlight flashes when the battery residue of 10-15%.
I think the same thing at the Lemax LX70
This is not the best way to learn about the amount of energy in the battery
You do not plan to make the indicator as on Xeray or Polarion ?


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## Colonel Sanders

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Thanks XeRay. :thumbsup: 

Could you perhaps toss us a [email protected] figure for this light? Or at least if we should expect it to have more, less, or about the same throw as the Barn Burner.


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Dan, is that something that I can use my unrequited stash of DL 50 Fatboys on?

http://www.lemax.cz/en/products/hid-searchlights/lx50.html


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



LuxLuthor said:


> Dan, is that something that I can use my unrequited stash of DL 50 Fatboys on?
> 
> http://www.lemax.cz/en/products/hid-searchlights/lx50.html



I have not verified that yet, we will eventually. The hole for the bulb is quite small and there are other possible factors.


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## Patriot

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



LuxLuthor said:


> Dan, is that something that I can use my unrequited stash of DL 50 Fatboys on?
> 
> http://www.lemax.cz/en/products/hid-searchlights/lx50.html





XeRay said:


> I have not verified that yet, we will eventually. The hole for the bulb is quite small and there are other possible factors.





Lux, did you mean the LX50 you linked or are you referring to the 50-70W that's coming? I would think it's a much better match for the 50-70W rather than the 35-50W of the LX50. The DL50 wouldn't be very happy driven at 35W right?


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## Patriot

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Colonel Sanders said:


> Thanks XeRay. :thumbsup:
> 
> Could you perhaps toss us a [email protected] figure for this light? Or at least if we should expect it to have more, less, or about the same throw as the Barn Burner.



I'm totally going out on a limb here but it says that it has a head size of 117mm. I'm guessing the reflector is 100-105mm based on the pictures and it doesn't seem to have a lot of extra bulk around the head. With the D2s, it wouldn't surprise me if this light was above 650k lux which would be incredible combined with that kind of lumen output. I always likes the form factor of the LX50 but it was too similar in performance to other lights that I owned. The 50-70 definitely takes it to the next level.


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Patriot said:


> I'm totally going out on a limb here but it says that it has a head size of 117mm. I'm guessing the reflector is 100-105mm based on the pictures and it doesn't seem to have a lot of extra bulk around the head. With the D2s, it wouldn't surprise me if this light was above 650k lux which would be incredible combined with that kind of lumen output. I always likes the form factor of the LX50 but it was too similar in performance to other lights that I owned. The 50-70 definitely takes it to the next level.



LX70 with 100 mm electroformed reflector, with XeVision XePuck 50/70 W ballast 

I dont have the LUX figures yet.


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## Lips

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

One site had it listed at 1,100,000 Lux (with help of new reflector) and 7400 Lumens


From memory the reflector on the L50 didn't give as nice of a beam as the Polarion. 


Nice looking power-house of a light that's done right. Congrats Dan...


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Dan, thanks for your answer. I figured it was worth posing, knowing how awesome the Fatboy has been.



Patriot said:


> Lux, did you mean the LX50 you linked or are you referring to the 50-70W that's coming?



Yes sir, that higher one.


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Standard capacity battery is 14.4V / 6.4Ah, high capacity battery 14.4V / 8.5Ah. The type and how the cells are configured is proprietary. 
Only premium quality (well recognized brand name) Li-Ion cells (made in *Japan**)* with dual cell protection (each cell has 2 protections inside). 
The completed Accupack (battery pack) has a 30A slow blow fuse link.


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Dmitriyrus said:


> Xeray, this flashlight (with lamp D2s) - the best of all.
> He lacks one thing - normal battery indicator.
> I know that in Lemax LX50 have a low battery indicator ...
> Flashlight flashes when the battery residue of 10-15%.
> I think the same thing at the Lemax LX70
> This is not the best way to learn about the amount of energy in the battery
> You do not plan to make the indicator as on Xeray or Polarion ?



It actually starts a 1/2 second flash every 60 seconds, once the battery reaches 20% remaining charge. However it drops from 70w to 50w first, to conserve power and then commences the flash warning. I would prefer a "fuel gauge" we are looking at adding that feature possibly. It is difficult to offer that in a dive rated light (good to 50 meters). We may have to consider a battery pack that is only made for shallow underwater applications. We are looking at all the options.


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## Patriot

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> Standard capacity battery is 14.4V / 6.4Ah, high capacity battery 14.4V / 8.5Ah. The type and how the cells are configured is proprietary.
> Only premium quality (well recognized brand name) Li-Ion cells (made in *Japan**)* with dual cell protection (each cell has 2 protections inside).
> The completed Accupack (battery pack) has a 30A slow blow fuse link.




Great capacity it must be using some very efficient electronics to get those run times. 

It looks like the LX70 is available now so will you be offering the XeVision70 for sale soon?


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Patriot said:


> Great capacity it must be using some very efficient electronics to get those run times.
> 
> It looks like the LX70 is available now so will you be offering the XeVision70 for sale soon?


Yes, we will be very soon. Actually, worldwide availability is pending our next 50/70 W ballast run.


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## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> It actually starts a 1/2 second flash every 60 seconds, once the battery reaches 20% remaining charge. However it drops from 70w to 50w first, to conserve power and then commences the flash warning. I would prefer a "fuel gauge" we are looking at adding that feature possibly. It is difficult to offer that in a dive rated light (good to 50 meters). We may have to consider a battery pack that is only made for shallow underwater applications. We are looking at all the options.



I think it is possible to produce an adapter - the battery indicator.
And install it between the head and the battery.
When using a flashlight configuration while diving, this adapter is not installed.
When using a flashlight on the ground - just install the adapter


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## Patriot

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Since there really isn't an official XeVision70 thread, I guess I'll bump this one in hopes of an update, with full knowledge that I might be a couple of years ahead of myself in anticipation.


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## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Are there any news?


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Yup! Gonna be on the Xe Ray website this month!!!:thumbsup:




Karl


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## Jonnyg7lus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Hello everyone price in Europe is €1990 euro's

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...prev=/search?q=lemax+lx70&client=safari&hl=en

but not in stock yet :-(


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## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

News ???


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I've been checking his website but nothing so far as I can see....



Karl


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

The website guy is behind, should be up in the next couple of weeks. The machined parts were also delayed, they are on the way now.


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Machined parts? Que?


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## GhostReaction

I am interested in a light that could outgun the PH50. 
Been waiting for one for a long time and glad its XeVision that's making it.


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## Hoop

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

35/70 might have been a more pronounced mode spacing eh?


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Hoop said:


> 35/70 might have been a more pronounced mode spacing eh?



35 - 70 is not appropriate for the available quality made bulbs. Too wide of a wattage range, you need to use a true higher wattage bulb for the 70 watt end, then 35 watts is too low for the bulb. For a high quality reliable unit 35 / 70 is not an option. The addition of our new XeRay on the website is very close at hand. Sorry for all the delays. I wish I had never said any dates, I will make sure that everyone knows that it is on the site.


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



I wish I had never said any dates said:


> Well, that's the way she goes....I'll be checking your website every so often....:devil:
> 
> 
> 
> Karl


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Just checked the website and.....there is to be an upcoming announcement....:devil:



Karl


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



karlthev said:


> Just checked the website and.....there is to be an upcoming announcement....:devil:
> Karl



http://www.xevision.com/hid_searchlights.html


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

PM to you Dan.

Karl


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## LuxLuthor

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Keep me in the loop!


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Sent a PM to you Chuck.


Karl


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Well folks, check out XeVision's website! The new lights are there!



Karl


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## BVH

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Good looking light in a nice form-factor package but I'm surprised at the 4000K lamp color. That's pretty much the old Barn Burner DL50 Fatboy color which is very yellow. Will 5000K lamps be an available option? When you look at all the large commercial & military airborne and marine searchlights, they're all at least 5000K and most are around 6000K.

I'm still a bit disappointed that this isn't the 250 Watt originally discussed light. :mecry:


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

The 250 just may have been wishful thinking for a "portable" lamp with any decent runtime I guess.... I've always been a "fan" of somewhat cooler lights however and would like too, to have an option for a higher temperature than the 4000K.....



Karl


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> Good looking light in a nice form-factor package but I'm surprised at the 4000K lamp color. That's pretty much the old Barn Burner DL50 Fatboy color which is very yellow. Will 5000K lamps be an available option? When you look at all the large commercial & military airborne and marine searchlights, they're all at least 5000K and most are around 6000K.
> 
> I'm still a bit disappointed that this isn't the 250 Watt originally discussed light. :mecry:



We are still working on the 250 and 150 watt project as we have the time, but thats a very large (comparatively speaking) bulb, reflector, igniter, ballast package, not practical (weight and size) at all with a self contained battery. It should be a tethered system with the battery separate. The 150/250 watt bulbs would be in the 5000K to 5500K range.

Back to our new lights being discussed. Unfortunately, there are no QUALITY MADE bulbs for high wattage that are a higher color temperature. I would not consider anything higher than 5000 or 5500K though, even if it was available. at 6000K you would be loosing ~20% of the Lumens output. Even at 5500K your loosing 10-15%. 5000K might be the best compromise, but That bulb is not made by ANY reputable source, for this kind of HID technology. Personally I hate 6000K.


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## BVH

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I never miss a chance to voice my color temp preference. 5000K is Near Perfect. If I could have my own lamp made, I'd make it a 4750K.


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## The_Driver

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I am very impressed with the specs of these lights!!
Everything seems to have been thought of and done correctly


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



The_Driver said:


> I am very impressed with the specs of these lights!!
> Everything seems to have been thought of and done correctly



Thanks for the compliments, we have spent quite a few years getting to this point (our joint development team, about 50 years of combined HID engineering experience), so the product is well refined. There were some previous versions the last few years as well, so the kinks have been worked out in real life use, including tactical users. We are now actively promoting the searchlights now that the product is fully matured and the 50/70 model is also being introduced. We were holding off, for that to be ready for steady production. 
Both ballasts and bulbs have been well proven in other applications as well as this one. 

5 very critical attributes: we have adequate heat-sinking fins (surface area) so that the light is never too hot to handle up front (the aluminum wont burn you) and it can handle the higher power, 50 and then 70 watts for the larger unit. Also our ballasts are 90% plus efficient (reduced ballast heat) and they are AC output, this is very important for arc stability and bulb life. If you read the downloadable manuals (on our site), you will read the very creative approach used to provide a "fuel gauge" without compromising the housing integrity for both overall durability, simplicity, strength as well as waterproof to 50 meters.


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## Nativetexan

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Congratulations to xeray for successfully bring these to completion. I found all the info on your site except for the pricing. Has that been determined or still in review? Also will we see any CPF discounts in the future? Thanks for bringing this awesome pair of hid's to us.


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## karlthev

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Fine lights, very fine lights worthy of the most critical users.


Karl


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Nativetexan said:


> Congratulations to xeray for successfully bring these to completion. I found all the info on your site except for the pricing. Has that been determined or still in review? Also will we see any CPF discounts in the future? Thanks for bringing this awesome pair of hid's to us.



I don't understand, all the pricing is there when I look at the page. Just scroll down the page, http://www.xevision.com/hid_searchlights.html The list price is given. There is a $200 discount off of list price, introductory pricing for 1 month. 
We do plan to do a CPF Group buy once this intro sale is over. It will probably take a couple of weeks to structure the group buy with progressive discounting depending on how many are purchased in the group buy. Say maybe 10 / 20 / 50 units total. The group buy will be open for something like 16 days, including 3 weekends.


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## Nativetexan

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I do apologize then. I was looking for the price on "pricing" page and totally missed it down in the "description" page. But I was also using a phone instead of the computer. It is there plain as day. Sorry again for my confusion and looking forward to hearing more about the group buy details. Thanks again!!!


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Nativetexan said:


> I do apologize then. I was looking for the price on "pricing" page and totally missed it down in the "description" page. But I was also using a phone instead of the computer. It is there plain as day. Sorry again for my confusion and looking forward to hearing more about the group buy details. Thanks again!!!



We will add something to the pricing page soon as well, we felt that could wait. The intro page was more important.


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## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> the 50/70 model


This flashlight has 2 power switch .
What happens if install them in different positions?
For example:
Rotary switch (number 1) - 50W. Rear switch (number 2) - 70W
please explain how to use these two switches.
The manual not written on their *joint work*


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## The_Driver

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> Thanks for the compliments, we have spent quite a few years getting to this point (our joint development team, about 50 years of combined HID engineering experience), so the product is well refined. There were some previous versions the last few years as well, so the kinks have been worked out in real life use, including tactical users. We are now actively promoting the searchlights now that the product is fully matured and the 50/70 model is also being introduced. We were holding off, for that to be ready for steady production.
> Both ballasts and bulbs have been well proven in other applications as well as this one.
> 
> 5 very critical attributes: we have adequate heat-sinking fins (surface area) so that the light is never too hot to handle up front (the aluminum wont burn you) and it can handle the higher power, 50 and then 70 watts for the larger unit. Also our ballasts are 90% plus efficient (reduced ballast heat) and they are AC output, this is very important for arc stability and bulb life. If you read the downloadable manuals (on our site), you will read the very creative approach used to provide a "fuel gauge" without compromising the housing integrity for both overall durability, simplicity, strength as well as waterproof to 50 meters.



One very important question: how long does it take to reach full brightness?
Polarions are very fast because the overdrive the bulb during startup.


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## Glowmo

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Dmitriyrus said:


> This flashlight has 2 power switch .
> What happens if install them in different positions?
> For example:
> Rotary switch (number 1) - 50W. Rear switch (number 2) - 70W
> please explain how to use these two switches.
> The manual not written on their *joint work*



Of course the LEMAX searchlight has only one rotary power switch. It's the knurled ring between the handle and the battery pack. Only the description is shown in two places. 




The_Driver said:


> One very important question: how long does it take to reach full brightness?
> Polarions are very fast because the overdrive the bulb during startup.



My LX50 reached full brightness as fast as a (Fibos ) Polarion PH50.


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## Lips

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Looks very nice.


Rechargeable Li-Ion battery pack 14.4 VDC, 8500 mA

Is it 2s4p

What brand batteries inside and wondering how it's 8500 mah. (two batts?)


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## tab665

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I like the addition of a molded handle versus the flat metal handle of older versions.


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## BVH

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Looks like a 4S - 3P (2800 mAh cells?) 3.6 x 4 = 14.4V. 12 cells in total if my guess is right.


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Dmitriyrus said:


> This flashlight has 2 power switch .
> What happens if install them in different positions?
> For example:
> Rotary switch (number 1) - 50W. Rear switch (number 2) - 70W
> please explain how to use these two switches.
> The manual not written on their *joint work*



[FONT=&quot]Sorry for any confusion, please look again at the drawing of the light in the manual, in the downloadable manual (a blue colored link), the drawing identifies each functional item. There is only one "smart rotary switch" you can use it to toggle back and forth between high / low outputs and for on / off. (50/70 watts for one model and 35/50watts for the other). If you are looking at the markings printed on the back (base) of the battery, that is only to help indicate rotary switch operation when viewing the light from the rear. These same rotation markings also exist on the 50/70 next to the rotary switch. The 35/50 only has the markings on the battery base. They both use the exact same high capacity, long run time battery.[/FONT]


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



The_Driver said:


> One very important question: how long does it take to reach full brightness?
> Polarions are very fast because the overdrive the bulb during startup.



Well first lets clarify your overdriving statement. 
All ballasts overdrive the bulb to some extent during the early stages of operation called warm up, before steady state is reached. So yours is really a question of relative overdrive intensity. Not a yes or no, but a “how much” question. 
The overdriving in every case is tapered off, as steady state (warmed up) is approached. 

I believe the Polarion uses a S.Korean made ballast but not sure who makes it. Chinese made aftermarket kit ballasts typically overdrive minimally causing them to take maybe 30- 40 seconds or more in some cases, to reach full brightness. This is done by them because their ballasts are usually not robust enough to take “heavy” overdriving. Their cheap bulbs also can’t take it. They want to avoid pushing the cheaply made electronics too hard, causing premature failures. They also do it to avoid some Canbus (computer fault) issues in cars where they are converting Halogen to HID in an aftermarket conversion kit. They want the kits to draw less amps during the start up and warm up stages. The Chinese 35 watt claimed (rated) ballasts are more typically about 30 watts, not 35 true watts output like automotive factory OEM ballasts.
One more thing, typical OEM car ballasts also have very quick warmup (bulb overdrive) very close to what you have indicated, offered by Polarion. One word of note, these have all been ONLY 35 watt OEM systems (and~30 watt Chinese) not 40 watts, we are talking about in this initial paragraph. 40 watts and above (overdriving) is in "new territory", "uncharted waters".

Back to the direct specifics of your question, most of the Polarions in the field are 40watt not the 50 watt variant, I would guess more than 90% are 40 watt. I will continue my comments on the basis that we are primarily talking about the 40 watt Polarion as a basis of this continued response. 
Since it appears that Dmitriyrus has both, PH40 and PH50 Polarion models, perhaps he would be so kind to comment of his perceptions, as to the relative difference of initial brightness. The comparison between the 2 models, at start-up. 
My GUESS they are both about the same or a minimal difference. Until our 35/50 at 50 watts is close to being warmed up, then there will be a more noticeable ~10 watt ~1000 lumens difference.

We decided from the start to not abuse the bulbs excessively, hurting bulb life more than what is necessary, in what we perceived was an optimal compromise level. 
Since we can initially start our lights in either the high or low mode. We knew we could use that to our advantage in this somewhat important “tactical” performance characteristic. When you want the brightest initial firing using our products, always use the higher power setting. Since our units offer 50 or 70 watts (2 models), for the high setting. Comparing a heavily overdriven 40 watt offering to 70 watts is no longer a “fair fight”. Our lights do take some seconds longer to fully warm up. A bulb life and lumens maintenance issue benefit. 
With the 50/70 a comparison is not fair to a 40 watt light, because of my earlier comment of our ability for starting up at 70 watts, the high setting. When you are comparing it to the 40 or 50watt Polarion. 
You can only push the bulbs so far. With our ability for starting at 70 watts you can’t use excessive overdriving, you would very quickly permanently damage any of these similar bulbs types, ours (Philips) or the Polarion (Osram) HID bulbs.

Our 35/50 would be a more fair comparison with the Polarion PH40 and 50 regarding initial brightness. They should be quite similar. Using our 50 watt setting , with about 1000 warmed up final lumens more from ours than the PH40 and similar lumens output to the PH50, with our advantage of the lower wattage (dual) setting when possible to extend battery run times, for both of our models.
Note: we also use significantly larger reflectors as well, on both of our lights. The larger unit about 25% larger diameter than our 35/50. But even our 35/50 has a large 80mm precision reflector. The 50/70 a 100 mm precision reflector, *25% diameter increase is a 50% increase in reflector surface area*, in this case. The larger reflectors also enhance the “out the front” lumens. 
With all these other factors included in the performance mix assessment, we believe the overdriving issue by itself, is no longer a performance comparison issue of real concern. 

I would suspect the Polarion PH50 could still be very slightly brighter at startup, when we startup using our 50 watt (high) setting on the 35/50 model, or the 50 watt (low) setting on our 50/70 model. Not likely enough to make a tactical difference. Again Dmitriyrus can help us with this detail, to understand this PH50 vs. PH40 characteristic better.

Boy, that was a long winded response to an initially perceived “simple” question.
I believe I have given a complete and adequately technical analysis of this issue and question.
I believe for our lights, we have found the optimal reflector sizes, parabolic shape and optical efficiency characteristics, bulb types, ballast warm-up and operational functionality behaviors. 

That your questions (comments), while they are very valid to be asked, have been fully answered here and will prove to be moot in the final analysis. Let the lights “speak” (illuminate) for themselves. The result of 50 years of combined HID systems engineering skill and experience within our final product development team.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> My LX50 reached full brightness as fast as a (Fibos ) Polarion PH50.



*Well that's some confirmation from the field, good to hear.*


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Lips said:


> What brand batteries inside and wondering how it's 8500 mah. (two batts?)



Sorry Lips, thats proprietary information.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



tab665 said:


> I like the addition of a molded handle versus the flat metal handle of older versions.



Yes both models have it now, and it has a much nicer feel to the hand. Also not so cold in winter, holding a metal handle.


----------



## Lips

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> Looks like a 4S - 3P (2800 mAh cells?) 3.6 x 4 = 14.4V. 12 cells in total if my guess is right.



Oppss I meant 4s - 2p

Battery handle didn't look long enough for 3 parallel sets of batteries.

How many batteries inside battery carrier 8 or 12 ?


----------



## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> PH40 and PH50 Polarion models, perhaps he would be so kind to comment of his perceptions, as to the relative difference of initial brightness. The comparison between the 2 models, at start-up.


Regrettably, I literally yesterday sold PH40. Flashlight sent to another city.
I'm trying to find the money for the purchase XV-LX70.
But it's not easy


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

You have a picture of the LX50 with shoulder strap, but the section on the LX50 where the front strap is connected doesn't appear on the LX70. How is the shoulder strap connected on the LX70? (I would like to see a picture).


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Lurveleven said:


> You have a picture of the LX50 with shoulder strap, but the section on the LX50 where the front strap is connected doesn't appear on the LX70. How is the shoulder strap connected on the LX70? (I would like to see a picture).


The strap used for the XV-LX70 is identical to the one used for the XV-LX50, the same for both, as shown in the photo (XV-LX50) you mentioned, provided on the webpage. The only difference in application of the strap on the 50 vs the 70, the XV-LX70 has fins in the area directly in front of the handle, while the XV-LX50 has a flat ring area there. The strap is used in an identical fashion on both models. For the XV-LX70 the strap goes over a couple of the fins. This is of no significance, since the fins as a whole system, are VERY well "over engineered" to dissipate the heat necessary for a long dependable unit life. In the future we will add a photo of the strap installed on the XV-LX70 to the website page.


----------



## bonbonbin_

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Cool, any nice photo?


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



bonbonbin_ said:


> Cool, any nice photo?


 Nice photos click-able thumbnails on the webpage.


----------



## hahoo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

am i reading that price right ?
2500 bucks for this light ?


----------



## The_Driver

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

@XeRay: could you maybe take a picture of the XV-LX50 and XV-LX70 lights next to each other looking into the front of the lights? I would love to see both reflectors with more detail.


----------



## karlthev

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



hahoo said:


> am i reading that price right ?
> 2500 bucks for this light ?



Why yes....!....?

Karl


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



hahoo said:


> am i reading that price right ?
> 2500 bucks for this light ?



*Is that meant as a rhetorical question ??
*[h=3][/h]


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



The_Driver said:


> @XeRay: could you maybe take a picture of the XV-LX50 and XV-LX70 lights next to each other looking into the front of the lights? I would love to see both reflectors with more detail.



I have a perfect photo for this, but I don't know how to add photos here. I would be glad to email it to someone, if they would post it here for me. Just send me your email address by PM. I will send the photo to insert. I will do this with a person who has been active on CPF for at least 2 years.


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Here it is:


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Thanks for the help Bob, The Photo requested is directly above this post, Enjoy !!! I think the quality of reflections (me taking photos) pretty clearly demonstrate the reflector(s) precision and coating quality.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

So...any estimates on a group buy price, assuming 20 people?? I have absolutely no idea how many people would be in it's quite expensive so probably nowhere close to the amount of people for FF4. Who in here would be a 'Yes' for a group buy? I myself am a maybe (again QUITE expensive)


----------



## The_Driver

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> I have a perfect photo for this, but I don't know how to add photos here. I would be glad to email it to someone, if they would post it here for me. Just send me your email address by PM. I will send the photo to insert. I will do this with a person who has been active on CPF for at least 2 years.





BVH said:


> Here it is:





XeRay said:


> Thanks for the help Bob, The Photo requested is directly above this post, Enjoy !!! I think the quality of reflections (me taking photos) pretty clearly demonstrate the reflector(s) precision and coating quality.



Thanks a lot for taking the time to take and upload this picture!

The difference between the two reflectors is very obvious.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> So...any estimates on a group buy price, assuming 20 people?? I have absolutely no idea how many people would be in it's quite expensive so probably nowhere close to the amount of people for PF40. Who in here would be a 'Yes' for a group buy? I myself am a maybe (again QUITE expensive)



Sorry no, we have not yet decided how the discount will be structured price wise. The steps will be, maybe 10/20/40/50/80/100. Anything less than 10 we may decide to terminate the GB. all of those issues will be determined in the next few weeks as we finalize our plans. The GB should be initiated either Oct 25th (most likely) or Nov 1st and run for 16 days, including 3 full weekends. 

I guess you want to make this (ALSO) into a "feeler thread", that's fine with me as long at its fine with the moderators.


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I would guess that since this is a production light, a GB would have to take place over at MarketPlace in the GB sub-section?


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> I would guess that since this is a production light, a GB would have to take place over at MarketPlace in the GB sub-section?



I believe you are correct on that thought. But I am in no way an expert on these issues.


----------



## Glowmo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

@XeRay: I have a question concerning the two bulb models you offer (D1S and a DL50). Do they have different performances and throw capabilities? Or is it "only" the life span that differs between these two bulbs?


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> @XeRay: I have a question concerning the two bulb models you offer (D1S and a DL50). Do they have different performances and throw capabilities? Or is it "only" the life span that differs between these two bulbs?



The DL50/740 is made for higher wattages. and is a P32D socket base while the D1S has the igniter built in with the bulb. You can see it on our website in the products section. The DL50/740 plugs into our XeSparQ igniter socket also can be seen on our website. The DL50/740 looks about like a std Philips D2S or GE D2S bulb. This bulb is much easier (easy) to replace and much faster on the (70) light compared to the D1S version on the XV-LX50. The different performances are mostly based on the watts "pumped" into either of them. The D1S is not suitable beyond about 55 watts, and the DL50/740 is not suitable below about 45 watts or more than 75 watts. The performance and throw abilities are related to the entire engineered optical system and ballast, not only the bulb. The bulb is only 1 piece of the system.


----------



## Glowmo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> The DL50/740 is made for higher wattages. and is a P32D socket base while the D1S has the igniter built in with the bulb. You can see it on our website in the products section. The DL50/740 plugs into our XeSparQ igniter socket also can be seen on our website. The DL50/740 looks about like a std Philips D2S or GE D2S bulb. This bulb is much easier (easy) to replace and much faster on the (70) light compared to the D1S version on the XV-LX50. The different performances are mostly based on the watts "pumped" into either of them. The D1S is not suitable beyond about 55 watts, and the DL50/740 is not suitable below about 45 watts or more than 75 watts. The performance and throw abilities are related to the entire engineered optical system and ballast, not only the bulb. The bulb is only 1 piece of the system.



You've got me wrong. It's my fault. I'm located in Germany and I know Petr from LEMAX since a few years. So I want to purchase the light from LEMAX. Now I wonder that LEMAX seems to use the D1S buld on the LX70. I want to know whether the performance of the LEMAX LX70 and your XV-LX70 is different. I already asked Petr about the DL50 because this bulb seems to be the more reliable choice.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> You've got me wrong. It's my fault. I'm located in Germany and I know Petr from LEMAX since a few years. So I want to purchase the light from LEMAX. Now I wonder that LEMAX seems to use the D1S bulb on the LX70. I want to know whether the performance of the LEMAX LX70 and your XV-LX70 is different. I already asked Petr about the DL50 because this bulb seems to be the more reliable choice.



If you asked Petr, you should already have the answers then. 
The lumens maintenance will be very different over time, and bulb life will also be different. 
Initially the performance will be very close, but over time (usage) they will diverge significantly. 
Also the DL50/740 is easy to replace (D1S, not quite so) even in the field, because it is socketed and the igniter is not removed to change the bulb.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> The lumens maintenance will be very different over time, and bulb life will also be different.
> Initially the performance will be very close, but over time (usage) they will diverge significantly.
> Also the DL50/740 is easy to replace (D1S, not qute so) even in the field, because it is socketed and the igniter is not removed to change the bulb.


This is very useful information

So does this light dominate the Polarion PH50 in every way?


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> Here it is:



Gorgeous reflectors!


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> This is very useful information
> 
> So does this light dominate the Polarion PH50 in every way?



Yes, it's 20W higher output and 35% more reflector area.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Patriot said:


> Yes, it's 20W higher output and 35% more reflector area.



Just curious, what is the reflector diameter of the Polarion PH40 and PH50 ?? 

My guess about 70 mm. *if correct*, then 10mm less than our 35/50 at 80 mm.
Only an estimate based on about 3 or so inches at the bezel outer diameter, if I am understanding correctly what I have read.

I just made some additional calculations assuming the Polarion reflector is 70 mm diameter.

Our 35/50 being 80 mm, the surface area difference between those 2 is 30% more on the XV-LX50 (80mm) than a 70mm reflector.
Our 35/50 is 80 mm and our 50/70 is 100mm. This is about 50% more surface for our 70 vs our 50.
From a 70 mm reflector going to 100 mm the surface area is in fact doubled (approx).
That is a fairly radical increase of surface area relatively speaking, and substantialy more effective (efficient) at pushing Lumens out the front.


----------



## LuxLuthor

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> We will add something to the pricing page soon as well, we felt that could wait. The intro page was more important.



How about a Toaster attachment?


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

How are you supposed to maximize battery life, by letting the battery fully drain before a recharge or by topping off the charge in shorter charge cycles? And also, does the brightness level degrade when the battery gets low or is it more of a 'Totally on or totally off' deal? 

Man I want this light!! I have enough money for this or a Maxabeam but not both, very tough decision


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> How are you supposed to maximize battery life, by letting the battery fully drain before a recharge or by topping off the charge in shorter charge cycles? And also, does the brightness level degrade when the battery gets low or is it more of a 'Totally on or totally off' deal?



Three isuues here to discuss. I will let the experts here comment (detailed) on the best practices, for maximizing Battery life (years), and number of useful life charging cycles. I believe, topping off is good and an occasional, like once a month, a full drain and full recharge.
Again, there are many people here who can answer that question better than me. 
The brightness does not change based on battery condition (output voltage). The internal HID ballast is a voltage regulating device and provides consistent output over the battery condition range. Also to optimize run time, use the lower power setting as much as possible (based on need) because the ballast is drawing less amps in this "low" mode. Please read, the downloadable (from the website) operational manual for more details about low battery level operation and behavior. The short answer is, the light either works (adequate charge) or will not work (very low battery) depending on available battery charge, it does not dim on a low level battery charge. 



BeastFlashlight said:


> Man I want this light!! I have enough money for this or a Maxabeam but not both, very tough decision



This light and the Maxabeam are very different products (different technologies), with very different visible optical characteristics. You should buy whichever one fits more closely with your intended application needs and likes. The question is, what is your goal in this purchase and how will you use the light once you buy it. There is no "fair" comparison between the 2 lights (Maxabeam and XV-LX70) when it comes to Lumens out the front and I believe true utility as well. The XV-LX70 blows it away in that department. Others in this forum can do a better and more objective comparison, to help you decide which is the best choice for you. I believe our light is far more useful in real life and emergency situations. Others here can and likely will expound on these points of comparison.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



LuxLuthor said:


> How about a Toaster attachment?


That's at the top of our list for hot new accessories. Ha Ha
The camping crowd would love it.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> This light and the Maxabeam are very different products (different technologies), with very different visible optical characteristics. You should buy whichever one fits more closely with your intended application needs and likes. The question is, what is your goal in this purchase and how will you use the light once you buy it.


Ah yes you are very correct not even close to identical lights, this is like being torn between a Lexis and an H1 Hummer. 

One more battery question please, if I were to put this light off to the side for a year and not use it is it fine to just let it sit, or would there be a recommendation to charge it once a month or something like that? Thanks


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> Ah yes you are very correct not even close to identical lights, this is like being torn between a Lexis and an H1 Hummer.
> 
> One more battery question please, if I were to put this light off to the side for a year and not use it is it fine to just let it sit, or would there be a recommendation to charge it once a month or something like that? Thanks



I would defer to the battery experts here, to best answer that question. 
I have some "good" OLDER information regarding that, but I would prefer to publish only the BEST current researched information on that issue.

The battery should be disconnected from the light, that much I am 100% sure of, for any long term battery storage. 
There are opinions regarding fridge or freezer storage and optimal charge level for long term storage. I hope someone with the facts will address both of those issues here.
I am also sure, you should not long term store it with less than about 40% charge. So this question remains, should it be stored at what charge level, between 100% AND 40% ??? 
Thanks in advance, for the help on these battery related questions in this thread.


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Good question on possible parasitic current draw. The small sample of Polarions known here on CPF seem to suffer this issue. I, myself, experienced it with my original PH40. Leave it for 3 months and the battery is completely discharged or discharged enough to trip some type of internal protection. In any case, the light was not usable until re-charged. Seems others with PH40 and PH50 are having the same problems. Not sure about the Reaper. I understand that reed and/or magnetic switch draw some current to operate?

Having had the PH40 and still having my Maxabeam Gen3 upgrade, I will say my preference in these two lights for "purely utilitarian purposes" was the PH40 because of its total Lumens output and well focused reflector design. The Maxabeam is breath-taking with its' pencil-like beam but at 900 Yards, I could not identify what it was that I was illuminating because of the very tiny field of view. The Polarion still had great throw due to the shear amount of Lumens and the much wider field of view being lit up very brightly is much, much more usable.

Notice I emphasized purely utilitarian purposes above. My heart still falls for pencil beam Short Arcs for pure fun.

You can find nice used inexpensive (relatively) Maxabeams on Ebay at almost any point in time. So invoke the CPF motto: Buy them both.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> Good question on possible parasitic current draw. The small sample of Polarions known here on CPF seem to suffer this issue. I, myself, experienced it with my original PH40. Leave it for 3 months and the battery is completely discharged or discharged enough to trip some type of internal protection. In any case, the light was not usable until re-charged. Seems others with PH40 and PH50 are having the same problems. Not sure about the Reaper. I understand that reed and/or magnetic switch draw some current to operate?



Bob, Are you referring to storage with the battery in the light ?? 
I would be curious if they have the same issue with charge loss, with the battery removed from the tube. I would bet this is not the case.
High quality cells should have a very very minimal loss over time, as long as there is no current drain (even very small) being applied to the battery.
Battery unconnected is the best way to go.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I am fine with the fact that after a long sitting period the battery will be totally depleted and in need of a full charge, that doesn't bother me. I was more so asking if the long term life/health of the battery is hurt by long term non use, like is it bad to let it sit totally depleted for a LONG period? Thanks


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> I am fine with the fact that after a long sitting period the battery will be totally depleted and in need of a full charge, that doesn't bother me. I was more so asking if the long term life/health of the battery is hurt by long term non use, like is it bad to let it sit totally depleted for a LONG period? Thanks



The experts on this battery technology are best to answer this very technical line of questions. 
I do know, if the battery is allowed to discharge too far, there is some "point of no return". The battery becomes unusable and must be rebuilt or replaced.
This is true for all batteries using this Chemistry.


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Dan, yes I was referring to discharge with storage of the battery inside the light. IIRC, I did not have the problem if I kept it out of the light for long periods.

For Lithium Poly batteries, it is best to keep them at a storage charge of 3.85 Volts per cell if they're going to sit for even as little as a week. I believe it is the same for Lithium Ion. But it is not practical to maintain this routine. I keep my batteries at storage charge if I'm not going to use them for 6 weeks or more. Even this gets to be a hassle at times so I just accept a loss of capacity as they age due to keeping them at full or near full charge.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> Dan, yes I was referring to discharge with storage of the battery inside the light. IIRC, I did not have the problem if I kept it out of the light for long periods.


Ok there's the solution! It probably isn't even a huge deal if you had to buy a new battery anyway


----------



## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Xeray, I have read everything, but did not see a specific answer.
Apparently I missed something.
Could you please to answer


Glowmo said:


> I want to know whether the performance of the LEMAX LX70 and your XV-LX70 is different. I already asked Petr about the DL50 because this bulb seems to be the more reliable choice.


*There is a possibility buy XV-LX70 with an installed DL50?*
Will cost how many flashlight in such a kit?


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Dmitriyrus said:


> Xeray, I have read everything, but did not see a specific answer.
> Apparently I missed something.
> Could you please to answer
> 
> *There is a possibility buy XV-LX70 with an installed DL50?*
> Will cost how many flashlight in such a kit?



XV-LX70 is *ONLY* available with a DL50/740 installed, we dont offer it any other way. 

The price has be provided on our website.

See post #86, your answer was there, but here it is again.

The lumens maintenance will be very different over time, and bulb life will also be different. 
DL50/740 vs D1S, Initially the performance would be very close, but over time (usage) they will diverge significantly. 
Also the DL50/740 is easy to replace (D1S, not quite so) even in the field, because it is socketed and the igniter is not removed to change the bulb.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> XV-LX70 is *ONLY* available with a DL50/740 installed, we dont offer it any other way.


So I guess you decided to change this and make it a standard feature (because post #7 said that it is an option). Now what about post #20, when you place an order do you specify regular battery capacity or high capacity? Or is the high capacity battery now standard as well? And if not how much of a price increase is there for the high capacity battery?


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> So I guess you decided to change this and make it a standard feature (because post #7 said that it is an option). Now what about post #20, when you place an order do you specify regular battery capacity or high capacity? Or is the high capacity battery now standard as well? And if not how much of a price increase is there for the high capacity battery?



Sorry, post #7 is old news, before we made a decision to ONLY offer the DL50 bulb for the XV-LX70.
We also decided to ONLY offer the High capacity battery for both flashlight models. We decided to keep things simple.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Great response indeed!!!!!


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

So i read up some more on parasitic drain, I read the whole thread on the Dual Abyss drain problems, I hope some of these battery gurus start up a technical disscusion in here. 

But just to be totally clear about 1 very important thing, whether or not the XeVision battery is used until failure, AND/OR whether it will sit long periods of time inside OR outside of the light, the battery has a protective drain cut off point correct?? 

One person in the Dual Abyss thread complained that he went beyond the safe drain level, I need to be clear on this issue before I would buy this light!! Did the Dual Abyss have an over drainage issue that got resolved? The Dual Abyss is top of the line quality I wouldn't think such a high quality light could ever have that over drain issue so I can't just assume that XeVision would be immune to this issue if Polarion had it. I will call XeVision tomorrow with my battery questions, if I find out any usefull info i'll post it


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> So i read up some more on parasitic drain, I read the whole thread on the Dual Abyss drain problems, I hope some of these battery gurus start up a technical disscusion in here.
> 
> But just to be totally clear about 1 very important thing, whether or not the XeVision battery is used until failure, AND/OR whether it will sit long periods of time inside OR outside of the light, the battery has a protective drain cut off point correct??
> 
> One person in the Dual Abyss thread complained that he went beyond the safe drain level, I need to be clear on this issue before I would buy this light!! Did the Dual Abyss have an over drainage issue that got resolved? The Dual Abyss is top of the line quality I wouldn't think such a high quality light could ever have that over drain issue so I can't just assume that XeVision would be immune to this issue if Polarion had it. I will call XeVision tomorrow with my battery questions, if I find out any useful info i'll post it



We do NOT drain the battery below an acceptable level for battery pack recharge longevity, when the light is powered up. The only way you could over drain the battery, is the normal very slow decay of stored charge by storing the battery for a long time at a low charge level (even when disconnected from the light). Also by leaving the battery attached to the light (powered off) with a low charge level. I will repeat, you should never leave the battery attached to the light for extended periods. Every light (head) will have some minimal (very minimal) "power leakage" over time. Remove the battery pack from the light, when you are not using the light for more than a few days or a week.

See page 6 of our downloadable manual _*"The searchlight should always be stored with a fully charged battery."*_ This should lay to rest any concerns, as well as how to best get the most useful (years) of life from your battery pack.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> I will call XeVision tomorrow with my battery questions, if I find out any usefull info i'll post it



I am not currently in the office at XeVision, I am out of town. 
I am the only qualified person based at our office to answer these kind of technical questions. This is my responsibility only. 
The only other parties to answer such questions with our company (XeVision) are in our Austrian engineering/sales office, those numbers are not published. 
Also Lemax in the Czech Republic, can answer such questions.

_*Someone tried to send me a PM, my box was full, I cleaned out some "old deadwood", so now there is room again.*_


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Thank you


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

This light will blow the doors off of a Fenix RC40


----------



## Glowmo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I wonder how you guys treat new high quality HID searchlights like the LX50 and LX70. I read that it's necessary to run new low-budged HID lights without their front glasses installed for some time. That should clear the new material vapors and prevent the reflector and front glass from getting foggy.

Is it the same with high quality HID lights or can I light up a new LX70 with the front window installed instantly?


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> I wonder how you guys treat new high quality HID searchlights like the LX50 and LX70. I read that it's necessary to run new low-budged HID lights without their front glasses installed for some time. That should clear the new material vapors and prevent the reflector and front glass from getting foggy.
> 
> Is it the same with high quality HID lights or can I light up a new LX70 with the front window installed instantly?



Thats all from "outgassing" and such from resins (plastics), silicone etc that are not completely cured yet. 
When they are heated the out-gassing and curing process is accelerated, with residual fumes being generated.
We do not recommend you open up your light. Please read our owners manual (down-loadable) from our site.


----------



## Glowmo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> Thats all from "outgassing" and such from resins (plastics), silicone etc that are not completely cured yet.
> When they are heated the out-gassing and curing process is accelerated, with residual fumes being generated.
> We do not recommend you open up your light. Please read our owners manual (down-loadable) from our site.



Thanks for the info. Of course I already read the LX70 instruction manual, but it doesn't answer my question. I understand that you recommend your customers not to open up the searchlight. To be on the safe side most manufacturers of electronic equipment do so. But I guess most CPF members aren't normal customers... we are flashlight enthusiasts and conserning my flashlights I always strive for perfection. :thumbsup: Even if a foggy reflector and front window wouldn't effect the performance of a searchlight, it would break my heart to see a patchy high-quality reflector... 

So is someone familiar with that problem? I operated my new LX50 searchlight (back in 2010) with the front window installed and the reflector still looks good. But the reflector of my Fire-Foxes III became slightly foggy. Is it just accidently whether the reflector of a new HID light becomes foggy or not?


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> ...................So is someone familiar with that problem? I operated my new LX50 searchlight (back in 2010) with the front window installed and the reflector still looks good. But the reflector of my Fire-Foxes III became slightly foggy. Is it just accidently whether the reflector of a new HID light becomes foggy or not?



In this particular example you cite, the FF3 uses a silicone adhesive to aid in bulb retention. That silicone is pretty much right at the heat source and it seems logical to me that there is outgassing. I don't know any other lights that use any type of adhesive in lamp retention or in the area where heat is produced. I can't think of any other light that has experienced outgassing issues. Some have experienced condensation issues. I don't think you're going to see an outgassing issues related to any mainstream flashlight manufacturing company flashlights.

Added: Recently, I bought a new enhanced coating reflector for my 1.6KW NightSun. I specifically asked Spectrolab about outgassing and they replied that none takes place with any of their parts in any of their searchlights. Can you imagine the headaches manufacturer if NightSuns, Maxabeams, TrakkaBeams and other mainstream lights had outgassing issues with tens of thousands of lights being sold to the military, Police, Fire and Search & Rescue units?


----------



## Lips

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> it would break my heart to see a patchy high-quality reflector...
> 
> So is someone familiar with that problem? I operated my new LX50 searchlight (back in 2010) with the front window installed and the reflector still looks good. But the reflector of my Fire-Foxes III became slightly foggy. Is it just accidently whether the reflector of a new HID light becomes foggy or not?




Glowmo, I believe your particular FF3 was a test unit (pre-production 1 of 40) that had out-gassing that didn't affect production units.


Somebody on CPF has beam shots of an LX50 vs a Polarion PH50. Can't find them at the moment but the reflector of the LX50 didn't seem to put out as nice a beam as the Polarion but I don't think it was electroformed either...


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I love how much knowledge people bring to the table in here, thank god this forum isn't full of a bunch of people like me who only act like they know what they're talking about


----------



## Glowmo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> In this particular example you cite, the FF3 uses a silicone adhesive to aid in bulb retention. That silicone is pretty much right at the heat source and it seems logical to me that there is outgassing. I don't know any other lights that use any type of adhesive in lamp retention or in the area where heat is produced. I can't think of any other light that has experienced outgassing issues. Some have experienced condensation issues. I don't think you're going to see an outgassing issues related to any mainstream flashlight manufacturing company flashlights.
> 
> Added: Recently, I bought a new enhanced coating reflector for my 1.6KW NightSun. I specifically asked Spectrolab about outgassing and they replied that none takes place with any of their parts in any of their searchlights. Can you imagine the headaches manufacturer if NightSuns, Maxabeams, TrakkaBeams and other mainstream lights had outgassing issues with tens of thousands of lights being sold to the military, Police, Fire and Search & Rescue units?



Thanks for the info BVH. In this thread (#9) you wrote that you leave the front window of for a while after changing a reflector, bulb or glass window. That was one of the reasons for my question. But that thread was about eBay HIDs. For sure that's very different from a high-quality HID like the LX70. So it's good to hear that I don't have to worry about a potential outgassing issue concerning the LX70.  




Lips said:


> Glowmo, I believe your particular FF3 was a test unit (pre-production 1 of 40) that had out-gassing that didn't affect production units.
> 
> 
> Somebody on CPF has beam shots of an LX50 vs a Polarion PH50. Can't find them at the moment but the reflector of the LX50 didn't seem to put out as nice a beam as the Polarion but I don't think it was electroformed either...



Thanks for your answer. I'm quite sure that my FF3 was not a pre-production unit. It was a production unit.

Concerning the LX50 reflector you're right. It's not electroformed. Petr (LEMAX CEO) told me that the LX50 uses a precisely turned reflector. To provide an excellent heat dissipation, the reflector and the head are of one piece. I compared my LX50 to a PH50 during a German flashaholic meeting. The beam of the Polarion has a cleaner beam-pattern, but the LX50 clearly out throws the Polarion. 

Of course the LX70 use an electroformed reflector.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Lips said:


> Somebody on CPF has beam shots of an LX50 vs a Polarion PH50. Can't find them at the moment but the reflector of the LX50 didn't seem to put out as nice a beam as the Polarion but I don't think it was electroformed either...



Lips, as you indicated, it was NOT electroformed, it was a CNC machined and polished reflector. *The XV-LX70 *_*uses*_* an electroformed reflector. 

*


Glowmo said:


> Concerning the LX50 reflector you're right. It's not electroformed. Petr (LEMAX CEO) told me that the LX50 uses a precisely turned reflector. To provide an excellent heat dissipation, the reflector and the head are of one piece. I compared my LX50 to a PH50 during a German flashaholic meeting. The beam of the Polarion has a cleaner beam-pattern, but the LX50 clearly out throws the Polarion.


 Good information from a user, comparing the beam quality of the non electroformed reflector to an electroformed one,

*Soon the XV-LX50 will also have an electroformed reflector*, currently it (50) does not, CNC'd and polished and with reflective coating.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> *Soon the XV-LX50 will also have an electroformed reflector*, currently it (50) does not, CNC'd and polished and with reflective coating.


Does the XV-LX70 already have electroformed reflector?


----------



## Glowmo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

@BeastFlashlight: You find the aswer twice in this thread... 



Glowmo said:


> Of course the LX70 use an electroformed reflector.





XeRay said:


> *The XV-LX70 uses an electroformed reflector.*


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> @BeastFlashlight: You find the aswer twice in this thread...



Its also covered quite well in the website description and technical specs.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> @BeastFlashlight: You find the aswer twice in this thread...


Sorry, when posts start getting technical I zone out and start skimming thru. I don't even know what it means but clearly I realize that having it is better than not having it ha

Laziness too I could of just went back and re-read thread


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> Sorry, when posts start getting technical I zone out and start skimming thru. I don't even know what it means but clearly I realize that having it is better than not having it ha
> 
> Laziness too I could of just went back and re-read thread



For the technically uniformed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroforming

The reflector is made of Nickel then coated with high-tech reflective coatings.


----------



## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


> I compared my LX50 to a PH50 during a German flashaholic meeting. The beam of the Polarion has a cleaner beam-pattern, but the LX50 clearly out throws the Polarion.


Could you give a link to beamshot ?


----------



## Glowmo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Dmitriyrus said:


> Could you give a link to beamshot ?



Sadly we don't made any beamshots at the meeting. So I don't have comparison shots.

However, I have some LX50 beamshots. The pics are absolutely untreated. The photos are taken with a Canon EOS 50D and a Tamron SP AF 17-50mm 2.8 Di II VC lens. ISO 800, 17mm focal length, f/5.6 shutter dissolve and shutter speed 1.6 / 2.0 / 2.5 seconds.







2.5 s





2.0 s





1.6 s





beam characteristic


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

*

Reminder* the above photos are *XV-LX50*, they are* NOT* *XV-LX70*. *Just so no-one gets confused.*


----------



## Joe_torch

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Hi Glowmo
Very nice beamshots. Thanks for sharing!
The performance of LX50 is really impressive.
Can you tell us how far is the tower?
Thanks
Joe


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Joe_torch said:


> Can you tell us how far is the tower?
> Thanks
> Joe


+1


----------



## Glowmo

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Joe_torch said:


> Hi Glowmo
> Very nice beamshots. Thanks for sharing!
> The performance of LX50 is really impressive.
> Can you tell us how far is the tower?
> Thanks
> Joe



Sadly I don't know the distance to the two towers. I took this pics long ago and I can't locate the exact place anymore. Maybe a daylight pic of the location helps a bit to get an idea of the distance...


----------



## Joe_torch

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Hi Glowmo,

Thanks for the pic. Seems like a good place for taking beamshots!

Joe


----------



## The_Driver

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Seems to be around 200m...


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



The_Driver said:


> Seems to be around 200m...


For USA people (non metric thinkers) I would say its close to 250 yards. *I would say the farther tower is 400 yards to 450 yards. Both are well illuminated.*
200 Meters stated above is close to 220 yards.

I really MUCH prefer the metric system across the board. I am so tired of us not changing over, I have to use both systems (Metric and English) every day. There was a big push about 35 years ago, but the "older" people "all" fought it. I'm 55 so I can start to say that now, I am almost (am) one of them.
A base 10 system is the only way to go, we need to dump the antiquated English system, heck even the British had enough sense to all but eliminate this old system we still use, and it came from them.
We're the only significant holdouts left in the world. If congress can't do anything else right, they could at least do this. But the tool making lobby would fight it, they would loose half of their business.
Mechanics would eventually only need half of their existing tools.

Okay that's my rant for the day.


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Glowmo said:


>



Great shots Glowmo. It seems to have a nicely defined hotspot.



Looks to be just over a Furlong..... Xeray.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Patriot said:


> Looks to be just over a Furlong..... Xeray.



:twothumbs:touche:


----------



## TEEJ

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> For USA people (non metric thinkers) I would say its close to 250 yards. *I would say the farther tower is 400 yards to 450 yards. Both are well illuminated.*
> 200 Meters stated above is close to 220 yards.
> 
> I really MUCH prefer the metric system across the board. I am so tired of us not changing over, I have to use both systems (Metric and English) every day. There was a big push about 35 years ago, but the "older" people "all" fought it. I'm 55 so I can start to say that now, I am almost (am) one of them.
> A base 10 system is the only way to go, we need to dump the antiquated English system, heck even the British had enough sense to all but eliminate this old system we still use, and it came from them.
> We're the only significant holdouts left in the world. If congress can't do anything else right, they could at least do this. But the tool making lobby would fight it, they would loose half of their business.
> Mechanics would eventually only need half of their existing tools.
> 
> Okay that's my rant for the day.



I'd vote for you.


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

We've started a CPF Member Group Buy "Interest" thread over at the CPF MarketPlace.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...formance-LX-70-amp-LX-50-HID-Group-Buy-Feeler


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



TEEJ said:


> I'd vote for you.



Wow thats a scary thought. 

Back to the fun stuff, High powered HID lighting


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

These answers will be posted in both places, Here and in the feeler thread over in the "marketplace". This way no one will miss them.

This is not a USA only GB, it is available world wide at least once, maybe more than once, TBD later.

"Tongue in cheek" This Group Buy is also open to any interplanetary aliens that are members of "the Federation" as well as, or instead of CPF. :wow::lolsign:
We might even make an exception for Klingons, however some one here will have to translate. Last time I looked its not supported by Google translate.

The charger is good from about 100 to 240 VAC and is 50/60 Hz compatible. The worst case you would need to purchase a cheap "prong" adapter. 
Not sure what constitutes an EU charger if its not covered in that broad specification.

Price sensitivity is a universal concern, no one is making a final commitment over in the feeler thread, it is contingent upon the price being "suitably attractive".

There is never a "good time" for a large dollar purchase. 
In my past experiences here on CPF, many prefer now, its a chance to buy themselves a Christmas gift, or buy it for their wife (ha ha).


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Thank you for the answers, the charger will then be OK for use in Europe. Another quick question: it is recommended to store the battery disconnected from the light, will there be a cap to put on the battery to protect the threads, o-ring and electrical connection points?


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Lurveleven said:


> Thank you for the answers, the charger will then be OK for use in Europe. Another quick question: it is recommended to store the battery disconnected from the light, will there be a cap to put on the battery to protect the threads, o-ring and electrical connection points?



Dan mentioned in post 96 that for long term storage, it should be stored outside the light. The members over at RCGroups forums are very into Lithium batteries and it is widely accepted that for optimum battery life, that all long term storage be done at about 3.85 Volts per cell. Many over there are even more aggressive than that - they charge or discharge their packs to storage Voltage after every weekend of flying - even if they plan to fly the next weekend. Personally, if I'm not going to use something for a month, I'll adjust the battery to the 3.85 Volts per cell. So about 11.5 Volts for a 3S pack.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Bob, The intergalactic shipping limitations addition was a smart move on your part. 
I had not thought about the associated implications, customs concerns as well as time frame and likely other details. 
Unfortunately none of our current shipping providers can offer "warp drive" shipping speeds. 
None of their current equipment is warp drive capable, likely due to the cost of said equipped cargo craft. 
Oh well, we had to have some shipping limitations I guess. 
Not too concerned though, I don't think we will loose too many participants over that issue.

L-11, As for the battery "cap" question, when being stored for extended periods, or anytime for that matter, the carry case would be the safest place for the battery. 
We do not offer any plastic cap to protect the threads etc. The included carry case provides all the protection needed, with the foam cutouts for each item.

See the photos on the website Searchlight page of the included carry case.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I've added myself to the group buy 'Maybe' list. Although I love the idea of owning this light it does suffer from the disease of being an HID light


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> .................................... it does suffer from the disease of being an HID light



There IS NO BETTER Disease to suffer from 

I don't see your post over at MP in the interest thread?


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Ugh that forum seems more difficult then this one! First of all I already had an account but it says i didn't so i had to create one again. The cursive part of the the image verification texts are so hard to make out I consistently get it wrong and have to try again. Do you have to verify EVERY post or is it just because i just registered? And now my post didn't go thru anyway lol, i'll try it again

EDIT***
Ok this rings a bell, I tried to post again and got the message about having less than 3 posts, so i suppose my post is on hold. It gave me another image verification and honestly the letters may as well be written in Chinese LOL, I can make out 4 of the 7 cursive letters


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> There IS NO BETTER Disease to suffer from


For you maybe but I am clumsy, MUCH more dangerous to drop an HID light than an LED. My 2nd reason to favor LED is lifespan, granted the HIDs can still last a very long time but relatively speaking the comparison is quite dramatic. My 3rd reason is luckily a mute point for THIS high quality light, in general the mandatory amount of time that u must leave an HID light on before shutting it off and off before turning it back on became annoying for me. However XeRay told me that this light is of such a high quality that it can be turned off and on like an LED light so that is a huge plus!


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> For you maybe but I am clumsy, MUCH more dangerous to drop an HID light than an LED.



You can drop it from a reasonable height without ANY concern for anything from a functionality standpoint. You could bend or damage some of the heatsink aluminum fins though.
This bulb used is quite robust, compared to most or even all Asian made relatively low cost HID units. 
This bulb and light system can receive the same harsh treatment as the Polarion units have been known to take, that's quite a lot.

If the light receives enough of a G's shock while on, the arc of light being produced from the plasma will extinguish. This is true only because the plasma has a very small (but large enough) amount of mass. When it gets a harsh shock, of substantial G's like dropping onto hard concrete, the plasma is pulled out of the arc gap. This will effectively stop the flow of electrons through the plasma which is how the Lumens are produced. This only takes a small fraction of a second, a large G' force spike. This is true for all HID lights using this technology. 

I have no proof (tests), but I suspect a Xenon short arc would not do this. Someone here I am sure could comment to this thought. There is only Xenon gas (no metal halide salts) inside a Xenon short arc bulb, and Xenon fills the entire chamber.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> If the light receives enough of a G's shock while on, the arc of light being produced from the plasma will extinguish. This is true only because the plasma has a very small (but large enough) amount of mass. When it gets a harsh shock, of substantial G's like dropping onto hard concrete, the plasma is pulled out of the arc gap. This will effectively stop the flow of electrons through the plasma which is how the Lumens are produced. This only takes a small fraction of a second, a large G' force spike.



And is that all, the light just goes out BUT no permanent ill effects? Just like a car stalling and just having to be restarted?

So this sounds like a pretty good post, this sounds like it's pretty equal in durability, fantastic! Ok let me ask you this, FF4 is a 'High Quality' HID light and I read a post that I didn't fully understand and I'm wondering if it also would relate to XeVision. I seriously have NO clue what the person was talking about but in a post they said something along the lines of an FF4 having to be stored in a tail stand position (I think it was tail stand position, but definitely in a CERTAIN position) and if it is not you will degrade it's 'Whatever.' I'm not going to compare XeVision to junk but FF4 is supposed to be of high quality as well, is there any comparable precaution with XeVision such as making sure it's stored in a certain position? I don't even know what the post was referring to but I do vaguely recall reading a precaution about FF4 storage position and I'm hoping that you will simply tell me that there's no comparable precaution with XeVision. It's very impressive that so many HID quirks simply do not factor in when it comes to XeVision BUT...I just want to be thorough and make sure that this quirk is also not an issue either. Thanks


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> And is that all, the light just goes out BUT no permanent ill effects? Just like a car stalling and just having to be restarted?
> 
> So this sounds like a pretty good post, this sounds like it's pretty equal in durability, fantastic! Ok let me ask you this, FF4 is a 'High Quality' HID light and I read a post that I didn't fully understand and I'm wondering if it also would relate to XeVision. I seriously have NO clue what the person was talking about but in a post they said something along the lines of an FF4 having to be stored in a tail stand position (I think it was tail stand position, but definitely in a CERTAIN position) and if it is not you will degrade it's 'Whatever.' I'm not going to compare XeVision to junk but FF4 is supposed to be of high quality as well, is there any comparable precaution with XeVision such as making sure it's stored in a certain position? I don't even know what the post was referring to but I do vaguely recall reading a precaution about FF4 storage position and I'm hoping that you will simply tell me that there's no comparable precaution with XeVision. It's very impressive that so many HID quirks simply do not factor in when it comes to XeVision BUT...I just want to be thorough and make sure that this quirk is also not an issue either. Thanks



To answer your first question: yes, no ill effects, as you said "like stalling your car, just restart like nothing ever happened". But again this takes an EXTREME shock or Impact with something VERY solid, very high instantaneous G forces.

Your 2nd question, I know nothing of the FF4 light, its quality or performance characteristics. My guess is its made in China, and not of the same class as Polarion, the new XeVision XeRays, or the SureFire Beast and other Military Grade (Mil Spec) or similar to Military Grade lights of the types we are discussing. 

As far as "Tail Standing" an HID *while on*, its not what the bulbs of any HID were designed for. This would be especially true for an HID with DC output to the bulb. Our Unit is AC ~400 Hz to the bulb. These bulb types were ALL designed for optimal performance at something close to horizontal operation. DC output bulbs (not ours) run much hotter on 1 electrode than the other. This could be compounded at least slightly operating vertically, degrading the tungsten electrode even faster, even if only slightly so. 
Can you *operate* our light in a tail stand (vertical) position without hurting it? I'ts only the bulb that "cares at all", at least in our light, I can't speak for any others. You should not run any HID in a tail stand position for extended periods, but say 5 or 10 minutes at a time (XeRay) would not be a real problem (say 10 or 15% of its total life usage time or less). 
Typical usage that would or could be expected in any search and rescue, diving, tactical situation etc. are of no concern. Just use the light as you would use any other light. Just don't use the light primarily as a vertical locator beam (vertical night sword) for 30 minutes to an hour, so your friends can find you in the desert. If you stand there and move it around with occasional extended verticals over a period of an hour, that is also fine. I hope this has cleared up your question.

As for storage, you can store it in *any position* for *any amount of time* you like, it could care less.


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I forgot to mention that there is also another reason I would want a cap for the battery. Transporting the light in a backpack will be easier if you can keep the light head and the battery separate. It is also an issue carrying a spare battery in your backpack. I will never bring the big box with me when I'm out using the light.


----------



## karlthev

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Wow, going to take this light backpacking???!!!! Maybe just a tad over gunned in the lighting department? I've always gone LIGHTER (weight that is!) when backpacking....carrying a spare battery as well? Not sure this was intended to be a backpacking light... Hey Patriot, what say you?

Karl


Whoops, possibly you mean just moving it from one place to another IN a backpack rather than backpacking---hiking in the woods. If so, whoops on my part!:sigh:


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

L11, you can go to any hydraulic system supply store and buy the soft plastic/rubber protective caps that are made for a multitude of sizes of hydraulic hoses and fittings. These fittings are placed over the parts to keep out contaminants until use, then taken off and usually tossed. There are external and internal protective caps and I'm sure you will find the perfect size for the light. They might even give them to you.

Do a web search for hydraulic protective caps or similar and you'll have lots of hits. Dan, can you provide the outer diameter of the threads that L11 is wanting to protect?

Beast, I'll put you down on the interest list. I don't know where you're getting all this garbage info on the FF4 that you mention. The FF4 doesn't care how it's stored when not in use. As far a bulb life span, I would be very surprised if anyone with an HID flashlight that specs 2000 to 3000 hours of bulb life to ever use those hours/use up a bulb. The flashlight will be obsolete long before the typical consumer uses anywhere near those hours.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> I don't know where you're getting all this garbage info on the FF4 that you mention. The FF4 doesn't care how it's stored when not in use.


Ok I found it, ok it was just 1 passing post and I don't know what he was referring to but I just remember reading it and rolling my eyes saying 'Once again another HID concern that LED doesn't have!' Post #95 here http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?371042-WTS-Thrunite-TN31vn/page4&highlight=Tn31

This has been all good news though everything that i don't like about HID is not a factor for this light, if there's an HID light to get it's this one!!


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> L11, you can go to any hydraulic system supply store and buy the soft plastic/rubber protective caps that are made for a multitude of sizes of hydraulic hoses and fittings. These fittings are placed over the parts to keep out contaminants until use, then taken off and usually tossed. There are external and internal protective caps and I'm sure you will find the perfect size for the light. They might even give them to you.
> 
> Do a web search for hydraulic protective caps or similar and you'll have lots of hits. Dan, can you provide the outer diameter of the threads that L11 is wanting to protect?



The threads diameter OD of the battery is: 64.67mm or 2.547 inches, Bob thanks for that great (very creative solution). You are awesome. L11 has a very valid need, in his situation. Not sure which will be a closer fit, a cap / plug (whatever fits best) for a Metric or English threads application. It could be, that they make enough incremental sizes, that the caps are universal. The caps do have some "give" to fit a very small range of sizes.

When we do have this group-buy (quite soon), I don't think there will even be any "small" questions left to ask. We are getting to the "nitty gritty" (small) details now already, and that's good. 

BTW, the minimum GB size is going to be 10 units, so everyone who has a strong interest (price dependent) to participate, should make it known SOON over in the GB feeler thread in the Market place. Still *hoping* to get at least 20 takers in the GB, when its all "said and done" (completed). The more takers, the better the price. There will be pricing tiers (steps) based on the actual final quantity.


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

BVH, thanks for the great tip. Dan, what is the height from the bottom of the o-ring to the top of the battery?


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

L11, here's a close-up pic of that area.





Looks like 5/8" to 3/4" long between end of threads and outer O-Ring shoulder. Let us know if you need more detail.

Thinking further, I'd buy one that is sized to snugly fit over the O-Ring and its' two shoulders. That way you also protect the O-Ring in addition to the threads. Dan, when you have time, could you measure the O.D. of the O-Ring shoulders and O-Ring and maybe confirm my estimate of the thread length & O-Ring+Shoulders?


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Lurveleven said:


> What is the height from the bottom of the o-ring to the top of the battery?



*[FONT=&quot]L-11,
The OD of the o-ring on the battery is 2.60” or 66mm [/FONT]
*
*[FONT=&quot]The diameter of the threads are 2.547” or 64.67mm[/FONT]
*
*[FONT=&quot]From the end of the battery to the back edge of the o-ring it’s .756” or 19.20mm[/FONT]*

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



karlthev said:


> Hey Patriot, what say you?



It's certainly a spectacular HID, I'm just not sure that I'm going to put that much money into a light right now. Not that it's not worth the price. The build and early indications of performance seem to justify the cost.



> BeastFlashlight
> This has been all good news though everything that i don't like about HID is not a factor for this light, if there's an HID light to get it's this one!!



Like you said, there really are no other downsides to high quality HID's beyond price & size/weight. As a huge LED junkie, I'm always flabbergasted at some of the reasons that people invent in order to dislike HID's, seeking to perpetuate a "Ford vs Chevy" mentality rather than simply understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each system, without bias. (not speaking of you) 

Coming from an objective perspective from having horses in both races, I noticed that it's almost always some uniformed "LED nut" who's chastising me in the youtube comments for having an HID that's more expensive or heavier than their LED, yet producing the same lumens. As if that's the sole barometer for performance. :shakehead

I'm just waiting for some joker to complain that it doesn't fit on their duty belt lol.


----------



## Lurveleven

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



karlthev said:


> Wow, going to take this light backpacking???!!!! Maybe just a tad over gunned in the lighting department? I've always gone LIGHTER (weight that is!) when backpacking....carrying a spare battery as well? Not sure this was intended to be a backpacking light... Hey Patriot, what say you?
> 
> Karl
> 
> 
> Whoops, possibly you mean just moving it from one place to another IN a backpack rather than backpacking---hiking in the woods. If so, whoops on my part!:sigh:



There are not many places to use a light like this this (I don't want to use it near traffic of houses), you need wide open spaces, for me that means mostly on the mountains above the tree line, or along the coast line. I will then have the light in the backpack until it is needed. I will never bring it on a tenting trip, or multi day hike. It is intended for SAR (which I'm planing to get back into) and for fun on shorter hikes.


----------



## karlthev

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Good show! 


Karl


----------



## dudemar

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Interesting seeing this thread unfold. I'm really excited about this light!


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Hey BVH, I was wondering if we'll be seeing a review of this light by you. Well, that's my hope anyhow.


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

We've started an Official Group Buy Sign-Up thread over on CPF Markeplace

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...p-LX-50-HID-Official-Group-Buy-Sign-Up-Thread


SCUBA Divers take note - these lights are Waterproof to IP68 standards and may be used for SCUBA diving and other underwater uses up to 50 Meters/164 feet. (Be sure to keep the O-Rings greased)


----------



## HIDSGT

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

its too bad it has the ring to activate it. that makes it useless for me. why not just place a button on the side to turn it on/off? its the same reason I didn't buy the PH50. if this had a button activation id buy it today. it does seem a little more compact then the Polarian which I find way too big and bulky to really do anything with other then strap it on to ur back….:shakehead


----------



## HIDSGT

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Patriot said:


> As a huge LED junkie, I'm always flabbergasted at some of the reasons that people invent in order to dislike HID's, seeking to perpetuate a "Ford vs Chevy" mentality rather than simply understanding the strengths and weaknesses of each system, without bias. (not speaking of you)
> 
> Coming from an objective perspective from having horses in both races, I noticed that it's almost always some uniformed "LED nut" who's chastising me in the youtube comments for having an HID that's more expensive or heavier than their LED, yet producing the same lumens. As if that's the sole barometer for performance. :shakehead
> 
> I'm just waiting for some joker to complain that it doesn't fit on their duty belt lol.


I think when ur comparing a $2500 HID to a $300 LED there should be some criticism of the HID. the HID's that you are referring to I'm assuming is the PH50 which is WAY to big, heavy and bulky and utterly useless for a uniformed LED nut as you say. 

granted, the HID's do make more power but not the one you have compared to the newer LED's. LED's are producing 5000 lumens and are a fraction of the cost. how many lumens does ur PH50 produce? granted, its not the sole barometer of performance I agree but when ur talking about an HID that cost 10x more then the newer LED's and really don't perform any better overall id say whoever is chastising you may have some valid points. I don't have a youtube account but people seem to get their panties in a knot when ppl disagree with them.

I think you would agree that over the next year or so we will be seeing LED's producing 6000-7000 lumens with incredible throw and spill and aint gonna cost $2000-$3000 to do it. its gonna cost $300-400. and I don't think any cop is going to think its gonna fit on their duty belt either. and not to mention LED's are a TRUE instant strike. HID's still take a few seconds to reach full power and just about every high powered HID available has the magnetic switch which is totally useless for law enforcement cause it requires two hands to turn it on/off. 

I tested the PH50 as a TE from Polarion and tried activating it with one hand and it just wasn't happening since the PH50 is so heavy and poorly balanced. LE needs to have his or her strong hand available so they can draw their weapon if needed. thats not happening when one hand needs to hold the light and the other to turn the ring to activate it. unless one wants to active their light before they need to which is extremely dangerous in LE cause a police officer is trying to sneak up on people not be this huge lighted target. so, again…. criticism is warranted.

you don't seem to take criticism very well and appear to get very offended when someone disagrees with you.


----------



## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Led lights can be of enormous power ...
But to me very funny watch as a few minutes they overheat
This is so funny.
They are trying to be cool.
But the most that they can - 5 minutes bright light.
And ... power reduction due to overheating.
In our affaires - as in sex.
If you're cool only 5 minutes - You are not at cool


----------



## get-lit

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



HIDSGT said:


> you don't seem to take criticism very well and appear to get very offended when someone disagrees with you.




Patriot's always been one of the most thoughtful here.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



HIDSGT said:


> I think you would agree that over the next year or so we will be seeing LED's producing 6000-7000 lumens with incredible throw and spill and aint gonna cost $2000-$3000 to do it. its gonna cost $300-400. and I don't think any cop is going to think its gonna fit on their duty belt either. and not to mention LED's are a TRUE instant strike. HID's still take a few seconds to reach full power and just about every high powered HID available has the magnetic switch which is totally useless for law enforcement cause it requires two hands to turn it on/off.



I suppose a tail switch could be mounted, such that you bump it into your knee to turn it on ???? I am not a cop, maybe some other LEO's can comment to the real life issues they face, using a searchlight (regarding on/off).
I would like to see you drive your car over that soon coming $300 to $400 equivalent LED light, we HAVE done it with ours. This is a "military build quality" light, not an Asian made light using counterfeit (fake) Cree LED's. Will "your" $300 to $400 LED next year, be water proof to 50 meters (Ingress protection: IP68)? Hard anodized 6082 CNC'd aluminum MIL-A-8625 ? Also an 8500 mAh battery? 
And yes, good luck managing all that heat (to be dissipated) of the LED you describe, that is unless you only use it underwater. Water can solve all the LED heating issues, great for divers !!
For a totally sealed unit good for 50 meters depth, you need to use a magnetic or similar switch, not a rubber covered button switch. So far, the ring switch has been the best solution. 
"You can please some of the people, some of the time, but you can't please all the people, all of the time."
Sounds like HID is not a solution for you, and that's fine.


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



HIDSGT said:


> I don't have a youtube account...



Not one that can access my page any longer since I banned you after repeated acts of senselessness and annoying behavior. :fail:





> HIDSGT
> you don't seem to take criticism very well and appear to get very offended when someone disagrees with you.




That's just about the same thing you said before getting banned and having all of your comments deleted, after several requests by me that you cease your bizarre, personal crusade against HID on my channel. Now you're after me on CPF, harassing me almost verbatim and you still can't discern the difference between being "offended" and simply being exhausted by your juvenile rhetoric. :shakehead

Since I can't prevent you from posting here, I guess I'll mark history by making you the first and only person on my CPF ignore list after nearly 7 years as a member, starting now. 
bye :wave:


----------



## get-lit

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

It's ironic to see this light criticized for costing more than LED while admitting in the same argument that LED isn't capable of this light's combination of output and throw. Hoping for LED to have the same capability next year doesn't count when attempting to criticize what can currently be done. It's like criticizing today's fastest computer processor for costing more because next year maybe something less expensive will be as fast. Everyone knows the four options with technology, either pony up for what's currently the best, or spend less for something less powerful, or wait it out, or see how much can be achieved by joining a conversation among those interested in the best and complain to them.

Also, the more powerful the light, the less likely I would want to be able to accidentally turn it on, and easy one-handed turn on becomes less of a concern. More powerful things tend to need more than one hand to get turned on.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

If I had to put money on it I don't think even 5 years into the future we would see an LED light put out a constant regulated 7,500 lumens for 1 hour & 40 minutes. 100 minutes is an insane amount of time to have zero step down on high.

I have pointed out reasons in here that I don't like HID but it is what it is, if an XV-LX-70 isn't a light that supports 1 hand operation than u don't buy it if u seek a light that supports 1 hand operation. I won't buy a Corvette if I seek a car that seats my family of 5


----------



## The_Driver

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> If I had to put money on it I don't think even 5 years into the future we would see an LED light put out a constant regulated 7,500 lumens for 1 hour & 40 minutes. 100 minutes is an insane amount of time to have zero step down on high.
> 
> I have pointed out reasons in here that I don't like HID but it is what it is, if an XV-LX-70 isn't a light that supports 1 hand operation than u don't buy it if u seek a light that supports 1 hand operation. I won't buy a Corvette if I seek a car that seats my family of 5



Concerning your 5 year prediction: I think we will, but only with multiple LEDs. Also: 900klux will only be possible with very large reflectors. This means the light will have a very big head (take a look at the new light from Wiseled to see what I mean). Much bigger than the XeRay. The light quality will be worse, because that's the nature of the most effiient leds at a specific point in time. The tint will be more even across the beam, because it always is with good leds. 

Concerning runtime: 1 hour 40 minutes is very good at these power levels, but I would not consider it that big of an achievement. Yuu just need a bigger battery pack and the ballast should have a somewhat good efficiency. 

Concerning step down: this is a rather recent problem that manufacturers have created, so they can build cheaper lights without cooling fins and still advertise them with very high lumen numbers. The dimensions of a light and the size and amount of the cooling fins dictates how much heat a light can get rid of constantly. The Xearay is a prime example of this: it has ample cooling fins for it's size. It it were an led light it could be very powerful (50+W). 

So in the end the Xeray is a very unique and powerful light that is currently not challenged at all by led lights. The problem is not that it can't be challenged, but that the led light manufacturers are doing it wrong. The single most important topic is heatsinking including cooling fins. The best exmaple are some of the better modded led lights being made these days. They are soooo much better than production lights. 

Thats is my view of things .


----------



## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



The_Driver said:


> This means the light will have a very big head (take a look at the new light from Wiseled to see what I mean). Much bigger than the XeRay.



Yeah it would def have to be larger, I have a spectacular heat sinking flood light mod with lots of fins, direct copper bonding to 2.5 inches of solid aluminum, pretty big & heavy but under 9" long (4 XML2s/4 18650s), regulated at 3,200 lumens and i'd say after 20 minutes constant runtime it starts getting to the point of becoming too hot and risking damage. So to have 100 minutes at 7,500 lumens it would have to be huge


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

But still in the near future, you're not going to get the complete package of throw and volume of Lumens of a single point light source produced by an HID from a comparable Lumens producing LED light.


----------



## The_Driver

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BVH said:


> But still in the near future, you're not going to get the complete package of throw and volume of Lumens of a single point light source produced by an HID from a comparable Lumens producing LED light.



I agree, we will not.

Also: a professional military quality LED Spotlight of high complexity will be much more expensive than the Chinese lights mostly talked about here in the forum.


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



The_Driver said:


> Also: a professional military quality LED Spotlight of high complexity will be much more expensive than the Chineses lights mostly talked about here in the forum.



Bingo! Another often, overlooked point of classification/typing. 








When someone declares today's popular, large format LED handhelds the equal of high end HID handhelds, like the Xeray LX70, I think they have to ignore or discount some rather obvious data points, which turn out to make all the difference in the world. Most notably throw capability, sustained luminous power & water resistance/packaging.

They'll take a light like the SR96 with 4800L and say, "see how LED's have caught up to HID!" In this particular case, one would have to ignore virtually every specification while simultaneously over crediting others. For example, it steps down to 50% after only 5 minutes of runtime (way behind in sustained luminous power). Throw is less than 30K lux (way behind in throw capability). It has an IPX-6 splash rating and is non-submersible (way behind in water resistance/packaging). It's easy to say, "well, I'm not taking it into combat" but the lack of one's specific lighting "needs" doesn't dismiss the data points that are used to measure various performance parameters. These higher points of performance cost more money whether being built into HID's or LEDs and I think the WiseLED weapon light is a better "apple to apple" example of this. 

I think that most HID owners readily acknowledge the true advantages to LED, such as value, adjustable levels with corresponding long or short run-times, low output efficiency, smoothness of beam, multiplied scalability, small scale possibility, mod-abilty, etc. Perhaps these conveniences are why I use them 90% of the time.


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

The Group Buy is scheduled to end tonight over at MarketPlace.


----------



## Dmitriyrus

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Much time has passed since the start of sales of the lantern.
When it finally appears independent review?


----------



## karlthev

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Unfortunately, interest here has been delayed or lost...

Karl


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



karlthev said:


> Unfortunately, interest here has been delayed or lost...Karl



Patriot and BVH are both doing reviews, Patriot should be able to get started next week. BVH a couple of weeks later.

It should all be completed in the next 4 weeks or so. 
Christmas and New Years holidays could delay the reports a little, not sure at this time.

Then we will likely try another group buy.


----------



## karlthev

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Well now, this IS good news! Very much excited about the reviews and another possible future group buy!


Karl


----------



## The_Driver

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



karlthev said:


> Well now, this IS good news! Very much excited about the reviews and another possible future group buy!
> 
> 
> Karl



I'm also excited about the review


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I received the XeRay last night, late via FedEx, before heading off to Christmas parties. I just finished another tonight and have only spent about an hour inspecting and using the light, despite my excitement to have it in hand. 

I won't have pictures of the light posted until tomorrow but plan to do that along with beamshots, beam videos, a full review video and possibly a comparison video. That would entail the XeRay and another light, if it's up to the challenge, for an overnight backpacking trip in the AZ mountains. It will be an equipment logistics nightmare. Having just added up the 5.1lbs of weight the XeRay has my pack up to 67lbs with the other lights, tripods, cameras, food, water and cold weather gear. 

First impressions of the light:

1)Smaller than I thought it would be based on existing pictures. 
2)The switch is ingenious! Smooth, consistent, and very SAFE!
3)The polycarbonate handle is fantastic, well balanced and seems to be very tough!
4)Without having compared it to anything else, the output looks spectacular on it's own. I'm excited to do beamshots! 
:thumbsup:


----------



## Joe_torch

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Hi Patriot
67lbs of gear? Thanks a lot for your hard work & highly expecting for yours & BVH’s great reviews!


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



karlthev said:


> Wow, going to take this light backpacking???!!!! Maybe just a tad over gunned in the lighting department? I've always gone LIGHTER (weight that is!) when backpacking....carrying a spare battery as well? Not sure this was intended to be a backpacking light... Hey Patriot, what say you?





I was reading through the thread again and caught this Karl. Sorry for the initial miss, but this is a favorite subject of mine!

From a practical standpoint no, it's not even remotely a backpacking light, which is pretty self evident as you stated. The LX70 is 5.1lbs and an extra battery is 1.85lbs. That's more than the equivalent of 3L of water weight. 

Military and search & rescue would fall into a different needs parameters and enthusiast usage might override any concerns of practicality. In any of these exceptions it really depends on what's trying to be accomplished. Using a light out to extended range, foliage permitting, is the quickest way to navigate "close in" especially when you already have familiarity with an area. I've taken a few night hikes in the Superstition Mtns, where there's usually several landmarks visible with a good light like the Abyss for example. I don't need to look at a map if I can just aim a light and see a familiar rock face, or canyon from a few hundred yards away. If I can get away with a smaller LED light like the TK75, even better. It just depends on how spread out things are. No matter how you look at it though, it should be considered a luxury item for this purpose and depending on the light it might not feel like much of a "luxury" when you're hiking and extra 4lbs up a 1500 ft climb. 

These days, topo mapped gps units combined with aerial images can tell us what the topography is around us, so using a powerful light for navigation is a weighty proposal. If you're trying to visually locate a point or object for reasons besides navigation, like finding a downed aircraft in a gorge or spotting wildlife, now we're stuck with the dilemma of which tool to use. All other things being relatively equal, level of performance/capability is directly correlated to weight. 

For my uses, I have never taken a large HID or LED on a multi-day trip because my uses would never justify the agony of the load. An overnighter with the support of other hikers might allow for a light up to 1.5lbs if we planned on hiking at night or were going to explore lava tubes or something. The problem becomes having to lug around the weight 8-10 hours a day in exchange for a couple of hours worth of night time capability. 

My typical 3 day load consists of an 18650 headlamp and 18650 flashlight totaling about 240 grams.


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Some pictures for you guys...


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Maybe Patriot will keep it through Christmas weekend and then BVH can have it for the New years holiday period. Hint Hint. If you so choose.:thumbsup:

Maybe you want to pass it forward to BVH because you don't want to play with it during the holidays, that decision is yours Patriot.

I am not trying to rush you, please understand that, if you want or need it for 3 weeks, that's fine too. 
BVH can be patient, I think.

Dan


----------



## The_Driver

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Thanks for the pictures partriot! 
The more the better 
For the sake of documentation you could add the light to your HID warm-up series on youtube...of course I mean after you do an extended Desktop Review


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

I have plenty of projects to keep me busy so take all the time you want Paul.


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> Maybe Patriot will keep it through Christmas weekend and then BVH can have it for the New years holiday period. Hint Hint. If you so choose.:thumbsupan



Cool, Dan...thanks  I see that Bob already responded too.



The_Driver said:


> Thanks for the pictures partriot!
> The more the better
> For the sake of documentation you could add the light to your HID warm-up series on youtube...of course I mean after you do an extended Desktop Review



I'll still have to decide what I'm going to do on that one. Either I wait to put it in the review only, or create a new youtube channel for short video's and "extra's" and load it there, or just post it on my main channel and see if viewers complain about it...haha! 




BVH said:


> I have plenty of projects to keep me busy so take all the time you want Paul.



Ok that's good to hear because I might need 3 weeks with this one.


----------



## XeRay

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Patriot said:


> Ok that's good to hear because I might need 3 weeks with this one.



More than 3 weeks, if needed for your convenience, schedule and some fun (play) time as well. 
I was not trying to create a schedule of any sort. 
I Just wanted to remove any pressure you might feel (assume) from XeVision to get this done "quickly".

Dan


----------



## Patriot

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



XeRay said:


> More than 3 weeks, if needed for your convenience, schedule and some fun (play) time as well.
> I was not trying to create a schedule of any sort.
> I Just wanted to remove any pressure you might feel (assume) from XeVision to get this done "quickly".Dan



Ok Dan, that sounds great! I'm eager to get rolling on this one and thanks again for sending it my way!:thumbsup:


----------



## AceDan

Any news or beam shots please Sir Patriot  ?


----------



## Patriot

The_Driver said:


> For the sake of documentation you could add the light to your HID warm-up series on youtube...of course I mean after you do an extended Desktop Review






AceDan said:


> Any news or beam shots please Sir Patriot  ?





As requested by The_Driver.....

XeVision LX70 7500 Lumen HID (Warm-up Time)


----------



## Patriot

Ok guys, here are some beamshots at 237 yards. I threw in a couple of 3500L LED lights in with the HID's as well. As was expected, some mighty good performance out of the LX70!

237 Yards to concrete drainage. 4" @ F4.0, ISO/100, AWB, slightly zoomed.


Control 




Nitecore TM26




Fenix RC40




Polarion Abyss @ 30W




Polarion Abyss @ 45W




Polarion PH50 




XeVision LX70 @ 50W




XeVision LX70 @ 70W


----------



## Dmitriyrus

Patriot said:


> Ok guys, here are some beamshots



Polarion PH50 should be directed above.
Hotspot PH50 does not fall on concrete drainage.
This is clearly evident while browsing the a single window
..........................
For a correct comparison of PH50 and LX70, necessary re-shoot photos


----------



## The_Driver

Thanks for your efforts Patriot!

The light is more compact than I though it would be :thumbsup:

@Dmitriyrus: I agree with you that the pH50 is pointed lower than the others, but it doesn't make much of a difference. It is only a little bit stronger than the Abyss. The Lemax LX-70 is obviously a much better thrower and has more "beam-lumens".


----------



## Dmitriyrus

It would be very interesting to compare Xeray Barnburner 75W and Xeray LX70.
For those who not matter waterproof and aluminum housing... But bright light is only important


----------



## BVH

A lot of work went into this. Thank You, Paul.


----------



## Joe_torch

Obviously, the LX70 out throw the PH50 even at 50W.
But the bright & wide corona of the PH50 is still very impressive.
Paul, thanks for the great beam shots!:thumbsup:


----------



## Dmitriyrus

BVH said:


> It's very disappointing to see this. No good deed goes unpunished to quote a cliche. A lot of work went into this. Thank You, Paul.


You see the smile? It was a joke
In fact, I understand that the problem is that the PH50 has no tripod screw
This light is difficult to fixation
I'm sorry if I offended someone


----------



## BVH

I thought the double parentheses were just that, a grammatical error. I didn't see it as a smiley. Sorry for my mis-interpretation. I edited my post.


----------



## Patriot

re-typing


----------



## Patriot

Dmitriyrus said:


> Polarion PH50 should be directed above.
> Hotspot PH50 does not fall on concrete drainage.
> This is clearly evident while browsing the a single window
> I hope that you did it by accident. And not for the deliberate forgery comparison ))
> For a correct comparison of PH50 and LX70, necessary re-shoot photos






BVH said:


> I thought the double parentheses were just that, a grammatical error. I didn't see it as a smiley. Sorry for my mus-interpretation. I edited my post.




Honestly, I didn't catch this as a joke either, especially considering the wording proceeding what you called, smiley faces. It kinda looks like everyone missed it as a joke but since it is, enough said.  



With regards to the pictures, I actually took two sets at two different locations last night. I was up late just getting the first set posted for you guys so I'll get the second set up tonight.

To address the PH50 photo, I agree it's low but only very slightly. It's interesting because the PH50 is actually one of the easiest lights to aim because of it's distinct hot spot. The Abyss with it's OP reflector is slightly more difficult and the LED lights are terrible because the hotspot is so poorly defined. In any case, I do everything for a reason and I'd rather have the beam slightly low vs. slightly high. The reason is because aiming slightly high would effectively increase the range of the illuminated background and lower the light value of the overall picture image...making it look less impressive. Honestly, the PH50 is so easy to aim that perhaps it slipped in my binocular stirrup when I stepped away to snap the shutter on the other tripod. I space the light and camera about 6-8 feet apart in order to avoid some of the light saber effect through the atmosphere. I do this because the lights with tighter beams will always look exponentially dramatic as compared to the light that's actually hitting the target. Spacing the light and camera helps to insure that the light reflecting off the target is the focal point and not the light bouncing off of floating particulates.

Having photographed a lot of Polarion beams over the years, especially the P Series, the beam frequently looks lower than it is due to it's large, smooth corona. It has always stood out in the HID shoot-offs because of that characteristic. I would estimate that it's only about 1.5° low or about half the width of the hot spot. I've also posted pictures of the PH50 over in the RC40 thread at a slightly higher zoom but if anyone is interested, they can see how it looks in that series as well. Actually, I can post it here but I doubt the camera settings were the same. You'll have to check the exif data....





So, that's a little bit of the "behind the scenes" story about the beamshot stuff.


----------



## TEEJ

Paul, excellent job. The LEMAX is a helluva light. Looking forward to the rest of the review when you get through the holidays.




And the joke up above there was Greek To ME.


----------



## Patriot

Same camera settings. The tower is 400 yards away. All the distances are measured with a Leica rangefinder. 


Control (with a bonus aircraft!)




TM26




RC40




Abyss @45W




PH50




LX70 @ 50W




LX70 @ 70W


----------



## karlthev

Whew!! Thanks always Paul for the best in comments and reviews! I too was taken aback but all's well that ends well....

I am dying to get one of these but, may need to give up my regular bread and water ration to do so....----JOKE!!


Karl


----------



## Patriot

Some other notes about the above beamshots. The camera always rendered the LX70 cooler in color temperature than the Polarions. This isn't the case in real life. The LX70 actually has a warmer beam, about 4000K @ 70W and I'm going to guess about 4200K at 50W. The camera was set to AWB, which normally works well, and I suspect the camera was trying to overcompensate for the warmer beam. 

Both sets of pictures are slightly under exposed. I usually try to over expose them slightly in order to offset some of the light loss that happens during resizing, to comply with CPF rules. This time I just didn't over compensate in the original picture enough. 

In the first set of pictures, the ones from the park, there's a single power pole off in the distance that's above and to the right of the target. IIRC, this pole is at least 600 yards away (Correction it's 507 yards. I think I was thinking of the next pole down before the tree grew taller and blocked my view to it) You'll notice that some of the lights actually reach that pole but what's really amazing is that the pole isn't in the hotspot of the beam. I'm going back there tonight so I'll measure the pole with the rangefinder.

Thanks everyone! :thumbsup:


----------



## karlthev

Great second series of shots!


Karl


----------



## Patriot

karlthev said:


> ....----JOKE!!




Haha!! That's how it's done man! :thumbsup:

...and thanks, Karl. You're very welcome


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> Some other notes about the above beamshots. The camera always rendered the LX70 cooler in color temperature than the Polarions. This isn't the case in real life. The LX70 actually has a warmer beam, about 4000K @ 70W and I'm going to guess about 4200K at 50W. The camera was set to AWB, which normally works well, and I suspect the camera was trying to overcompensate for the warmer beam.
> 
> Both sets of pictures are slightly under exposed. I usually try to over expose them slightly in order to offset some of the light loss that happens during resizing, to comply with CPF rules. This time I just didn't over compensate in the original picture enough.
> 
> In the first set of pictures, the ones from the park, there's a single power pole off in the distance that's above and to the right of the target. IIRC, this pole is at least 600 yards away but I'm intentionally being conservative. It might be closer to 700 yards. You'll notice that some of the lights actually reach that pole but what's really amazing is that the pole isn't in the hotspot of the beam. I'm going back there tonight so I'll measure the pole with the rangefinder.
> 
> Thanks everyone! :thumbsup:



Again Sir, Excellent Job!



If you set it to daylight balance instead of auto white, it might show the colors more representatively. It also eliminates the variables that the balancing introduces between light levels, etc.


----------



## Patriot

TEEJ said:


> Again Sir, Excellent Job!
> 
> 
> 
> If you set it to daylight balance instead of auto white, it might show the colors more representatively. It also eliminates the variables that the balancing introduces between light levels, etc.




Thanks buddy!

Excellent suggestion. I was just about to head out and was sitting here trying to pick the best fixed WB setting. Daylight is going to look weird but at least we'll be able to see RELATIVE color differences. It's true that "whiter" pixels on the LCD screen do serve to make the average value of the picture frame look brighter.


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> Thanks buddy!
> 
> Excellent suggestion. I was just about to head out and was sitting here trying to pick the best fixed WB setting. Daylight is going to look weird but at least we'll be able to see RELATIVE color differences. It's true that "whiter" pixels on the LCD screen do serve to make the average value of the picture frame look brighter.




If you had a good way to mark which shots were what, you could do a few "bracket shots" where you use say three fixed balance settings per "shot", on a few experimental shots, to see for yourself what each looked like. 

When I can, I like to go to my control location before it gets dark, and shoot some actual shots with natural light too. That shows me details I can reference at night, plus what the actual colors were, etc. Its also easier to get range finder readings, and you can use a rifle scope's range finder too, etc.


----------



## Patriot

TEEJ said:


> If you had a good way to mark which shots were what, you could do a few "bracket shots" where you use say three fixed balance settings per "shot", on a few experimental shots, to see for yourself what each looked like.
> 
> When I can, I like to go to my control location before it gets dark, and shoot some actual shots with natural light too. That shows me details I can reference at night, plus what the actual colors were, etc. Its also easier to get range finder readings, and you can use a rifle scope's range finder too, etc.




All good ideas but I made it out and back already. The daylight setting made the LX70 look really warm but at least it's all relative now. Should have tonight's pic up in 30 min or so. 

oh yeah...haha, it's at a park so the rifle scope might be a little scary to the wrong person. I'm getting accurate measurements using a laser ranger which is +/- 1%


----------



## Patriot

Ok guys, here's round 3!

I increased the shutter time by 1sec. I set the WB to daylight. I was using manual focus, set to ∞ but a couple of times I looked at it and it had changed (perhaps by me while setting something else). It happened a couple of times and since I didn't know how long it had been like that I re-shot entire sets. I was disappointed to find out that I still managed to get one shot slightly out of focus. It was the XeRay LX70 @ 70W in the wide angle set of pictures and it's not hard to see. 

Range is 234 yards as I shot from a slightly different spot, with the park light on the left this time. 


(Wide Angle)

Polarion PH50 




XeVision LX70 @ 50W




XeVision LX70 @ 70W (sorry about the focus)






(Zoomed)

PH50




LX70 @ 50W




LX70 @ 70W






Zoomed 507 yards to pole above and beyond the trees.... P.S. it's not over 600 like I had thought. Bad memory

Through the rangefinder. It's grainy because I amplified the image so that the street light and treeline were visible.




PH50




LX70 @ 50W




LX70 @ 70W




PH50 and LX70 @ 70W


----------



## Patriot

Observations and thoughts about tonight's testing and the light so far;

I really took my time to center all the beams/hotspots on the concrete drainage and later the telephone pole at 507 yards. The PH50 will never look like it's centered but it is (for any newer members that might be looking at this). It's an optical illusion that's caused by the size of the hotspot, the characteristics of the corona, the size of the target, and the angle over the ground.

In some of these shots it may look like the PH50 is brighter than the LX70. Again it's an optical illusion caused by the shape of the hotshot and corona. The LX70 is substantially brighter in the hotspot even at 50W. The Polarion distributes more light around a wider corona and fills more pixels on the screen making it look brighter at 50W. The actual lux readings are very close with the LX70 measuring 893lux @50W and the PH50 measuring 865lux. Slight advantage to the LX70 even though it's hard to tell in the pictures. You really have to focus on the hot spot of each beam to see where the lumens are concentrated. 

PH50 stabilized




LX70 @ 50W stabilized




LX70 @ 70W stabilized (the stabilized reading is about the same as the peak reading) Seems that the LX70's boost phase steadily throttles back as the lamp warms up over a period of approximately 15sec. refer back to my warm up video. 




PH50 during boost phase. Shot was taken right under the peak lux of 1145. I've still never seen a faster warm up time from a handheld HID, except for perhaps the Night Reaper. Harder on the lamp of course but might be an acceptable trade-off




The Polarion is stated to have a 3° hot spot. I'd say it's probably 4°. If this is accurate and I suspect that's pretty close, the XeVision probably has a 2.0° degree beam spot. I measured the differences on a white wall with double sunglasses on and then applied a percentage to the measurement. The LX70 has a hot spot about 48% the size of the PH50. This provides an incredibly intense hot spot. This is a result of the 100mm reflector as opposed to the 72mm in the Polarion. It's about 50% more reflector surface area and it's quite noticeable when using the light. Keep in mind that I'm not referring to usability here as I think the PH50 probably has the advantage under 250yards because of the corona. Beyond that however, the LX70 is untouchable. I still have too measure throw lux but it might be double that of the PH50. I'm just estimating it at 850,000+ throw lux at this point. Again, don't hold me to that, afterall, I was wrong about the range of that telephone pole by 100 yards...haha. 




(Some long winded thoughts about the color temperature)

When the LX70 is @ 50W, the color temperature is decent. When I bump it up the 70W I'd say there's a 200K swing to the warm that takes a little getting used to. XeVision states that it's about 4000K and iirc, should get just a smidgen warmer during the first 10 hours of bulb life and I'm probably at close 5 hours now. I've never owned a HID light that's warmer than 4300K and my dream temperature for HID is probably just slightly warmer than BVH's at about 4600K. What's interesting about color temperature is that the brain sort of auto white balances itself after a while and doesn't realize that it's being tricked UNLESS it has something memorably color relative or actually color relative to look at. For example, you could walk around the park and think, "wow, this is the perfect color" until you get back to your car and see that it's way different than it looks in the sun. When I'm walking around the desert with the LX70, I'm amazed at how the greens and browns pop out of the background. It's a very soothing, cozy feel and (this is going to sound stupid) makes me feel warmer. :huh: I know, it just does. As much time as I spent in the outdoors alone, sooner or later I'm bound to experience that uneasy feeling. It might be because the imagination is at work or because I'm wet and or tired, or because I hear a big cat and think I'm being watched or stalked for the next 15 minutes. Just being honest, it happens. The 4000K is good for easing those feelings away and I experienced this with the LX70 my 2nd time out with it. I was way out away from civilization on a week night and my hearing was deadened by a river that was running nearby. Since I'm used to silence when I hike, the inability to hear things was really working on me. After a while I was able to "settle down" with the LX70. Granted, this isn't a hiking light but I'm just sharing what I experienced. 

Now for the "actually" relative part... when I turn on the PH50 or Abyss, all of a sudden everything looks over saturated with the LX70. The Polarion makes it look like the sun is out because the color is closer to high noon. The LX70 has a color that's more like the Arizona sunsets during that shallow angle of light. If I was lost in the woods I'm not sure what I'd take, maybe the LX70 because it seems to amplify greens and makes me cozy? If I was an artist however, I'd illuminate my artwork with the Polarion. Obviously we're in some really subjective territory and opinions will vary greatly. 

I guess that's about it for now.


----------



## Dmitriyrus

Patriot said:


> Honestly, I didn't catch this as a joke either, especially considering the wording proceeding what you called, smiley faces. It kinda looks like everyone missed it as a joke but since it is, enough said.



I admit - - it looks a bad joke.
Perhaps it looks like this because I do not know English. I only know a few words.
I communicate using "google translate".
In any case - this is my problem and it's my fault.
I bring to you personal apology.


----------



## The_Driver

@Patriot: thanks for doing all this work for the community! :thumbsup:

So far the light seems to have no donwsides for what it is! That's quite rare. 

How is the wheight subjectively?


----------



## XeRay

There is no comparison between the old Barnburner XeRay 75 watt, and the new XV-LX70. 
The new light output simply blows it away, the beam (reflector quality) of the Barn Burner was sub par at best.

It made up for poor reflector quality, somewhat with brute force power, still not enough to keep up with the XV-LX70.


----------



## Dmitriyrus

XeRay said:


> There is no comparison between the old Barnburner XeRay 75 watt, and the new XV-LX70.
> The new light output simply blows it away, the beam (reflector quality) of the Barn Burner was sub par at best.
> 
> It made up for poor reflector quality, somewhat with brute force power, still not enough to keep up with the XV-LX70.


This there is no doubt !
Nevertheless it would be interesting to compare


----------



## TEEJ

Dmitriyrus said:


> I admit - - it looks a bad joke.
> Perhaps it looks like this because I do not know English. I only know a few words.
> I communicate using "google translate".
> In any case - this is my problem and it's my fault.
> I bring to you personal apology.



I think everyone knows it was just (an attempt at) making a joke....and the language barrier and emoticon barrier just screwed it up.

I think its all OK now.


----------



## TEEJ

Paul, the excellence of your review continues, and, the light is impressing me too.


----------



## Doberman

Patriot, 
it has been mentioned several times, but let me also thank you for the time and effort you put in these exquisite "pre-"tests, and i can´t await to see your desktop review on YT about this stunning peace of light. I own the Dual S with a smooth reflector; would have be interesting for me to see the advantage of the LX vs the DS. The LX seems to be my logical next step in the HID History; it´s just the few bucks misssing ;-( . But there always has a dream to be dreamed. 



Regards


----------



## Patriot

Dmitriyrus said:


> I admit - - it looks a bad joke.
> Perhaps it looks like this because I do not know English. I only know a few words.
> I communicate using "google translate".



No apologies necessary. I only responded so that the other two CPFer's that commented about it knew they weren't alone in their misunderstanding. Once you stated that it was a joke I chalked it up to a translation thing. As TEEJ stated, we're all on the same page now. 



The_Driver said:


> @Patriot: thanks for doing all this work for the community! :thumbsup:
> 
> So far the light seems to have no donwsides for what it is! That's quite rare.
> 
> How is the wheight subjectively?




Of course and thanks for all the support. Thanks to Dan at XeVision too for making this all possible. As far as downsides go, there are no real ones. In fact, it's a dream light of industrial/military quality. I'm saving some of the specifics for the video review but nothing I say in that review will be surprising to you guys. Oh, I'll give a tiny hint, that the beam is "tunable." I'm not speaking of anything high tech and in fact it's probably the simplest form of "tuning" a HID's light beam and something that my 8 year old nephew could do. If you guys guess it, I won't confirm it until the video.  In any case, I did have to "tune" it to get the best performance. 

With regards to weight, it just feels like the other high end HID's that I own. I caught myself supporting it with one finger by the handle while having a spotlight in each hand and stretching my other finger to reach the light switch. I was doing the same thing while manipulating different lights during the powerline tower beamshots the other night. The well designed handle makes this all possible. I'm sooo glad that it isn't metal! The thing I notice the most is the physical size of the head having been accustomed to other, all metal bodied HIDs for so long. When I'm putting it in a pack, I think to myself, "wow, this thing's a beast."




TEEJ said:


> Paul, the excellence of your review continues, and, the light is impressing me too.




Thanks TEEJ! 

I wanted to get your thoughts about the Daylight WB setting results and if you felt that the yellow'er pixels handicapped the XV-LX70. I think I need to find a setting that warms the Polarion's beam and cools the XeVision's beam. Sort of split the difference perhaps?




Doberman said:


> Patriot,
> it has been mentioned several times, but let me also thank you for the time and effort you put in these exquisite "pre-"tests, and i can´t await to see your desktop review on YT about this stunning peace of light. I own the Dual S with a smooth reflector; would have be interesting for me to see the advantage of the LX vs the DS. The LX seems to be my logical next step in the HID History; it´s just the few bucks misssing ;-( . But there always has a dream to be dreamed.




My pleasure Doberman! In a way, the classification is simple. It's the next step up in "caliber" beyond the 35-50W HID's we're used to. We've had access to other more powerful lights like the Barnbarner, Titanium Innovations L70, the Mule 80W and other larger, ABS styled chassis but none of them could be classified to the same quality level or overall performance of Polarion. It set itself apart by being the only high-end, military type, HID available that wasn't an externally powered, dedicated machinegun light. The XV LX70W is the longer range option to the Polarion with only slight size and weight penalties. The kicker in the mix is the XV LX50W or the 70's little brother. This would be a direct, model for model competitor to current Polarions. I suspect they would be very close in performance! Against the 70 watts and large aperture of the XeVison however, my Polarion Dual S doesn't stand a chance.


----------



## Dmitriyrus

Patriot, tell please ..
As far as convenience battery indication? In real conditions.
One year ago ... I chose between Polarion PH50 or Lemax LX50.
I long thought. It was a very difficult choice.
Do you know that proved decisive factor?
Battery indicator.
In my work, it is important to know how much energy residue. The more accurate the better.
Den wrote to us as running indication in Xeray ...
Are you comfortable? As far as informatively?


----------



## TEEJ

Paul, as I mentioned, but too late for you to capitalize on, if you "bracket" the WB settings, say shoot a set of the same shot with a few fixed WB settings, so you can compare which worked, or, at least, which worked better.

Daylight is typically the one that works best, but, different lights do appear differently, as the actual frequencies, etc, do vary. You do need to use one to make across the board comparisons though, and, so far, I do think it worked out. If another setting would work out better, the bracketing should help evaluate that.

The eye is so different from the camera, its always a crap shoot when the lighting is not standard.

Even day light is different at dawn compared to mid-day to dusk, etc....and an object can look 3 different colors depending on when you take the shot. And then you say, which is "correct"? :candle:


Its always a project in progress.


----------



## funboat

What an amazing light. Now I want one! :thumbsup:


----------



## AceDan

Cheers Patriot for your beam shots and video. 

Now...anyone guesstimate the throw of the LX70?

Guess I might be selling my PH50 now if this truly is a brighter/more powerful HID.


----------



## AceDan

Just as a thought...has anyone ever put two of the same HIDs together to see if there is difference between the two due to bulb manufacturing difference or down to the reflector finish?


----------



## TEEJ

AceDan said:


> Just as a thought...has anyone ever put two of the same HIDs together to see if there is difference between the two due to bulb manufacturing difference or down to the reflector finish?



LOL

Not too many people have two of the same of this sort of light. I have duplicates of some, as I equip search teams, etc....but $ multi-K $ Lights, well, there are budget constraints. I have an Abyss dual and a PH50....and this one could easily replace either of them as an upgrade...but, TWO of them, unless there's a buy one get one free sale, is a bit rich.


----------



## AceDan

TEEJ said:


> LOL Not too many people have two of the same of this sort of light. I have duplicates of some, as I equip search teams, etc....but $ multi-K $ Lights, well, there are budget constraints.



Hey TEEJ. 
I was more thinking guys who test these lights or companies who own more than one


----------



## TEEJ

AceDan said:


> Hey TEEJ.
> I was more thinking guys who test these lights or companies who own more than one



SSHHHHHH! (I'm hoping for the buy one get one free thingie...)


----------



## AceDan

TEEJ said:


> SSHHHHHH! (I'm hoping for the buy one get one free thingie...)



Actually now you mention it...good thoughts :-D


----------



## Patriot

Dmitriyrus said:


> Patriot, tell please ..
> As far as convenience battery indication? In real conditions.
> One year ago ... I chose between Polarion PH50 or Lemax LX50.
> I long thought. It was a very difficult choice.
> Do you know that proved decisive factor?
> Battery indicator.
> In my work, it is important to know how much energy residue. The more accurate the better.
> Den wrote to us as running indication in Xeray ...
> Are you comfortable? As far as informatively?



There is no visible LED indicator for battery capacity on the XeVision. When the battery drops to 20% and the light is running, it will blinks for 1/2 second every 60 seconds until the battery is energy is depleted. There's no missing it when the battery is below 20%. The blink gets your attention.



TEEJ said:


> Paul, as I mentioned, but too late for you to capitalize on, if you "bracket" the WB settings, say shoot a set of the same shot with a few fixed WB settings, so you can compare which worked, or, at least, which worked better.
> 
> Daylight is typically the one that works best, but, different lights do appear differently, as the actual frequencies, etc, do vary. You do need to use one to make across the board comparisons though, and, so far, I do think it worked out. If another setting would work out better, the bracketing should help evaluate that.
> 
> The eye is so different from the camera, its always a crap shoot when the lighting is not standard.
> 
> Even day light is different at dawn compared to mid-day to dusk, etc....and an object can look 3 different colors depending on when you take the shot. And then you say, which is "correct"? :candle:
> 
> 
> Its always a project in progress.




More specifically, what did you think of the pictures themselves as opposed to the previous ones? Better, worse, the same? Just looking for your opinion. As always, thanks for the reply and the help TEEJ. :thumbsup:



AceDan said:


> Just as a thought...has anyone ever put two of the same HIDs together to see if there is difference between the two due to bulb manufacturing difference or down to the reflector finish?



There will always be minor differences in the lamps but electroformed reflectors are very consistent. I would imagine that with the quality checks XeVision puts into their electronics we're not going to see much variation there either. Comparing two Ebay lights might be a different story.


----------



## AceDan

Patriot said:


> There is no visible LED indicator for battery capacity on the XeVision. When the battery drops to 20% and the light is running, it will blinks for 1/2 second every 60 seconds until the battery is energy is depleted. There's no missing it when the battery is below 20%. The blink gets your attention. More specifically, what did you think of the pictures themselves as opposed to the previous ones? Better, worse, the same? Just looking for your opinion. As always, thanks for the reply and the help TEEJ. :thumbsup: There will always be minor differences in the lamps but electroformed reflectors are very consistent. I would imagine that with the quality checks XeVision puts into their electronics we're not going to see much variation there either. Comparing two Ebay lights might be a different story.



You're probably right Patriot. So what about a HID bulb that has say 10x more hours than a new one. Which would be brighter or give the best possible output? And the PH50 you used for the test shots, any idea on runtime that's had out of curiosity?


----------



## Patriot

AceDan said:


> Cheers Patriot for your beam shots and video.
> 
> Now...anyone guesstimate the throw of the LX70?




Oops, missed this one. Yeah, I actually mentioned it but it's buried in some cluttered paragraphs. I haven't measured it yet but I'm guessing over 750K lux. My hope is to actually measure it at a 100m but that's going to be a project involving radios or a spotting scope and a fluid tripod head. I've measured the Polarions before @50m and it was a hassle.


----------



## AceDan

Patriot said:


> Oops, missed this one. Yeah, I actually mentioned it but it's buried in some cluttered paragraphs. I haven't measured it yet but I'm guessing over 750K lux. My hope is to actually measure it at a 100m but that's going to be a project involving radios or a spotting scope and a fluid tripod head. I've measured the Polarions before @50m and it was a hassle.



Thanks Patriot. Really useful stuff


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> Oops, missed this one. Yeah, I actually mentioned it but it's buried in some cluttered paragraphs. I haven't measured it yet but I'm guessing over 750K lux. My hope is to actually measure it at a 100m but that's going to be a project involving radios or a spotting scope and a fluid tripod head. I've measured the Polarions before @50m and it was a hassle.









This is how I get long rang lux readings. 

Flip the display towards the camera, and you can see the reading as you adjust the beam to get the hot spot on it, etc....and record the max with the meter if it has a max store feature, and/or with the zoom lens and a pen and paper, snapping a pic, etc.

And, no, the meter is not there during actual shooting, I scoot back behind a berm, then come back out, etc.


----------



## XeRay

AceDan said:


> Just as a thought...has anyone ever put two of the same HIDs together to see if there is difference between the two due to bulb manufacturing difference or down to the reflector finish?



With proper quality controls in manufacturing, neither the bulb or electroformed reflector would vary enough to detect ANY difference between lights.
Philips has outstanding BULB QC standards, as does our California based electroformed reflector manufacturer. There should be no detectable difference between lights.


----------



## TEEJ

WB Comparison:






Control, with AWB

The Control with AWB shows the way the camera sees the grass and trees, etc. The street lights look white, but, the pools of light they cast are also yellowed.






AWB 

The lit grass up close looks a little greener, and the less well lit proximal and streetlight lit areas look yellower. The colors on distant targets is more washed out.


The two above indicate that the camera shows low light areas as yellowed using the AWB.


------------------------------------

Daylight WB






LX at 50

This is the LX at the 50 watt level, and the grass looks greener than the AWB version, as do the trees, and there seems to still be the same less lit areas/lit by street lights, that are more a bit more orange/yellow than yellow, but the street light bulbs still look white. Overall, this might look the most realistic? Does that jive with being there?







LX at 70 w


Despite even more light, the proximal grass seems less green than at 50 w. The rest looks similar, but, overall, the distal greens are very clear. 





Overall, I'd say between AWB and Daylight WB, the daylight pics might be a closer approximation of what the lights can do.


----------



## AceDan

XeRay said:


> With proper quality controls in manufacturing, neither the bulb or electroformed reflector would vary enough to detect ANY difference between lights. Philips has outstanding BULB QC standards, as does our California based electroformed reflector manufacturer. There should be no detectable difference between lights.



Thanks Xeray. Just FYI. I've used two Ushio 75w bulbs in the same light and seen difference in the hot spot size at the same distance, plus the corona slightly different. My thoughts on that are the crystals inside the glass.


----------



## Patriot

TEEJ said:


> ------------------------------------
> 
> Daylight WB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LX at 50
> 
> This is the LX at the 50 watt level, and the grass looks greener than the AWB version, as do the trees, and there seems to still be the same less lit areas/lit by street lights, that are more a bit more orange/yellow than yellow, but the street light bulbs still look white. Overall, this might look the most realistic? Does that jive with being there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LX at 70 w
> 
> 
> Despite even more light, the proximal grass seems less green than at 50 w. The rest looks similar, but, overall, the distal greens are very clear.
> 
> Overall, I'd say between AWB and Daylight WB, the daylight pics might be a closer approximation of what the lights can do.





Okay, this actually helped a lot. You're right, the whiter image taken with AWB definitely is not the most accurate representation. What I was seeing in actuality was very close to the Daylight WB, zoomed image LX70 @ 50W. I'd say that particular image is just a touch too warm. On the other hand, the Daylight WB, zoomed image LX70 @70W is way too warm. What I'm having difficulty determining is if the "way too warm" daylight WB setting is still closer to actuality than the AWB cooler image. It might be that the "way too warm" image is still actually the closer of the two though. I really appreciate the help here and two brains are always better than one!:twothumbs


----------



## TEEJ

Patriot said:


> Okay, this actually helped a lot. You're right, the whiter image taken with AWB definitely is not the most accurate representation. What I was seeing in actuality was very close to the Daylight WB, zoomed image LX70 @ 50W. I'd say that particular image is just a touch too warm. On the other hand, the Daylight WB, zoomed image LX70 @70W is way too warm. What I'm having difficulty determining is if the "way too warm" daylight WB setting is still closer to actuality than the AWB cooler image. It might be that the "way too warm" image is still actually the closer of the two though. I really appreciate the help here and two brains are always better than one!:twothumbs



LOL

Or 4 eyes.



As you're seeing, the actual amount of light itself is shifting the balance even with a fixed balance setting. The camera itself has programming that is responsible, just like the way film responds to different types of light differently.

That all means that there is no "one perfect setting", but, to keep it apples and apples, you need to use one anyway. 

So far, the daylight setting seems to be as close as you're going to get, but your camera's internal algorithms will also bias the end results, hence the suggestion to bracket a shot with a few WB settings, to see what each does to one shot.

As you SAW that the 70 w and 50 w of the SAME light produced different colors (Did it by eye?), you have to assume that the light emitted had different characteristics. (Just like sunlight at dawn produces different colors than sunlight at dusk, even though its the same darn ball of burning hydrogen, etc.)

Try some bracketing, and see if anything interesting pops up.



The results may be applicable to future HID shots for example, or at least give you a baseline to work from.



BTW -

Does your camera/lens keep a fixed f-stop when you zoom, or does the f-stop go up as the focal length is increased?


----------



## Patriot

TEEJ said:


> As you SAW that the 70 w and 50 w of the SAME light produced different colors (Did it by eye?), you have to assume that the light emitted had different characteristics.



Yeah, the beam does get warmer from 50 - 70W, it's just that it doesn't seem like it's 'that much' warmer. I'd say it's a 100-200K shift and the picture makes it look double that in my mind. One of us, (me or my camera) is obviously getting the wrong impression...lol. 




> Does your camera/lens keep a fixed f-stop when you zoom, or does the f-stop go up as the focal length is increased?



You know, that's a great question! I'm pretty good with photography basics in general but I don't think I've ever thought of that with this particular camera. My intuition tells me that there's no way that camera is holding F4.0 and certain telephoto ranges and there's probably a point that it's changing to F5.6 or even smaller. The thing is, I've never actually seen it indicate any smaller than F4.0 on my LCD screen, in which case I might have just happened to stay under zoom range to lose F4.0. I'll have to just go test to see if and when it does. I'm with you though! If it does, it makes a difference with regards to exposure.

Cheers!







It was raining here pretty good last night so I never made it out for my longer range shots.


----------



## tonkem

What I find interesting, is the increase in runtime over the Polarion lights. This making the Lx50 particularly attractive, since it gets 2.3 hrs on max 50w, and 3.3 hrs on "low" at 35w. After owning the PH40, the runtime of "only" one hr was a bit of a turnoff. And not really needing a light of that caliber caused me to release it into the market. This model is interesting though, for the runtime and output  I am intrigued.

Looking forward to your video review, Patriot. I am sure there will be many comparisons to the Polarion in there.


----------



## AceDan

Any news and reviews Patriot?

My dealer has quoted me £1650 including delivery to the UK for the LX70. Waiting on Patriot vs PH50 ;-)


----------



## LuxLuthor

Dmitriyrus said:


> It would be very interesting to compare Xeray Barnburner 75W and Xeray LX70.
> For those who not matter waterproof and aluminum housing... But bright light is only important



Agreed. That is my exact question.

In any case, some superb beamshot comparisons guys. Thanks for all the great and tedious work!


----------



## XeRay

AceDan said:


> Any news and reviews Patriot?
> 
> My dealer has quoted me £1650 including delivery to the UK for the LX70. Waiting on Patriot vs PH50 ;-)



Unles you don't care, you need to make sure it includes a XeSparQ igniter and a Philips DL50/740 bulb or else you are not comparing apples to apples.
Otherwise you get a standard D1S bulb, either Philips or Osram brands.


----------



## BVH

There's a BB on MaraketPlace for a paltry $350.00 including shipping! Someone buy it and send it to me so I can use it as a comparison. I'll then send it back.




LuxLuthor said:


> Agreed. That is my exact question.
> 
> In any case, some superb beamshot comparisons guys. Thanks for all the great and tedious work!


----------



## AceDan

XeRay said:


> Unles you don't care, you need to make sure it includes a XeSparQ igniter and a Philips DL50/740 bulb or else you are not comparing apples to apples. Otherwise you get a standard D1S bulb, either Philips or Osram brands.



Haven't a clue what you're on about, sorry. I recall lumen a lumen and lux, lux?!

Patriot, any further reviews or videos on their way please?


----------



## XeRay

AceDan said:


> Haven't a clue what you're on about, sorry. I recall lumen a lumen and lux, lux?!
> Patriot, any further reviews or videos on their way please?




Look at this adjacent thread: 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...s-Lemax-LX70&p=4356467&viewfull=1#post4356467

There you will find more answers to your comment.


----------



## AceDan

XeRay said:


> Look at this adjacent thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?378748-XV-LX70-vs-Lemax-LX70&p=4356467&viewfull=1#post4356467 There you will find more answers to your comment.



Thanks XeRay, I never knew about this difference. Great thread.


----------



## Patriot

AceDan said:


> Patriot, any further reviews or videos on their way please?




Yep, I've got video beamshots done and will be recording the review Thursday or Friday. There's a good chance that the beamshots will make it onto a shorter video of it's own before the desktop review.


----------



## Patriot

Hey Spotlight junkies, I took the XeVision LX70 out to the mountains again, this time with the cameras and some other lights.

This is on the way in. It's about a 30min hike back with a 78lb pack but there's no light pollution or people to freak out. These stills were made from low light video so the quality isn't too great.





This is a picture of the mountain I'm shooting the lights at. The 40x50 yard dark spot in the center is a slide of black shale surrounded by desert grass and plants. The distance is about 770 yards. That's our target for the still pictures. Ignore where I'm pointing.





Here I'm pulling some equipment and lights from the pack and laying everything out. I was taking still and video beamshots with three different cameras. 





This is a control shot of the mountain after dark. It might be a 8sec exposure instead of a 10sec exposure like the following. I try to over expose the beamshots slightly because of the loss of light during resizing.




Fenix RC40




Polarion Abyss Dual S @ 45W




Polarion PH50




XeVision Lemax LX70 @70W








Stacked in same order......
















The wind became quite strong and made more video very difficult because of audio issues. It was even starting to effect the stills because even my big tripod was trembling in the wind some. Time to pack up and head out.


----------



## Parker VH

Thanks much for taking the time to do this. I have to admit I'm impressed with the sheer amount of light the Lemax puts downrange. It appears that the corona is quite a bit larger than the PH50 and the hotspot is definitely more intense. I'm undecided if I'd rather have a smaller overall corona, not that I can change it.


----------



## Parker VH

Patriot, Do you think there'd be any noticeable difference if you used the Polarion CSWL instead of the PH50? I would think they'd be very close overall.


----------



## Dmitriyrus

XeRay said:


> Look at this adjacent thread:
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...s-Lemax-LX70&p=4356467&viewfull=1#post4356467
> There you will find more answers to your comment.



I updated starting post, given this information


----------



## Patriot

Parker VH said:


> Patriot, Do you think there'd be any noticeable difference if you used the Polarion CSWL instead of the PH50? I would think they'd be very close overall.



Yeah, overall the PH50 and CSWL are very close. The main difference is that the CSWL is driven to 55-57W for about 5 minutes before stepping down the 40W. The extra initial wattage of the CSWL certainly gives it a boost in output but if I'm honest, I'd prefer that it stayed at that output or at least 50W. It's definitely got the needed heat sinking that the PH50 doesn't.


----------



## Parker VH

Patriot said:


> Yeah, overall the PH50 and CSWL are very close. The main difference is that the CSWL is driven to 55-57W for about 5 minutes before stepping down the 40W. The extra initial wattage of the CSWL certainly gives it a boost in output but if I'm honest, I'd prefer that it stayed at that output or at least 50W. It's definitely got the needed heat sinking that the PH50 doesn't.



The CSWL drops to 40W? I assumed 50W?? Interesting.


----------



## Patriot

Parker VH said:


> The CSWL drops to 40W? I assumed 50W?? Interesting.



I think version1 droped to 40W but I might be mistaken. I'd have to go back to the CSWL thread for reference to be sure.


----------



## The_Driver

patiently waiting....


----------



## toolboy

Dan had mentioned a second group buy, I missed the first. Any news on that?? I was one of the first barn burner group buyers in the past but had to sell during a divorce, imagine that. Now that beautiful part of my life is over, sarcasm implied, I maybe be ready to join the ranks of xevision owners again but a group buy discount would sure lessen the pain of the price of this baby. Don't get me wrong this is a quality machine and worth a quality price.


----------



## Patriot

Parker VH said:


> It appears that the corona is quite a bit larger than the PH50 and the hotspot is definitely more intense. I'm undecided if I'd rather have a smaller overall corona, not that I can change it.




It's actually just the opposite. The PH50 has a substantially larger corona and the XeVision LX70 has a narrower and brighter corona....even at 50W. At 70W the LX70's corona is very intense. It packs at much throw in it's corona that some of my large LED's have in their hotspots. What you're seeing in the pictures above actually are the hot spots since and the corona, which is as wide as the mountain itself, goes largely undetected by the camera. Those photos are zoomed in.

The difference in hot spot between the PH50 and LX70 is just as dramatic as you'll see from the video that should be up shortly.....


----------



## XeRay

toolboy said:


> Dan had mentioned a second group buy, I missed the first. Any news on that?? I was one of the first barn burner group buyers in the past but had to sell during a divorce, imagine that. Now that beautiful part of my life is over, sarcasm implied, I maybe be ready to join the ranks of xevision owners again but a group buy discount would sure lessen the pain of the price of this baby. Don't get me wrong this is a quality machine and worth a quality price.



Yes, but likely won't occur before late March or even April.


----------



## Parker VH

Patriot said:


> It's actually just the opposite. The PH50 has a substantially larger corona and the XeVision LX70 has a narrower and brighter corona....even at 50W. At 70W the LX70's corona is very intense. It packs at much throw in it's corona that some of my large LED's have in their hotspots. What you're seeing in the pictures above actually are the hot spots since and the corona, which is as wide as the mountain itself, goes largely undetected by the camera. Those photos are zoomed in.
> 
> The difference in hot spot between the PH50 and LX70 is just as dramatic as you'll see from the video that should be up shortly.....



Thanks for the clarification. I meant to say that the Lemax has an overall larger diameter output, at least it appears that way to me.


----------



## Patriot

Sure thing Bob!


Here's a video of the XeVision LEMAX LX70 at only 100M compared to some other lights...

Part 2 will be up later tonight...


----------



## Parker VH

Very impressive! Can't wait for the other videos where you'll get to reach out and really get to show it's stuff. I better cut up my credit card before the next group buy.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

Any of you guys scubba divers who can show us some cool under water beamshots?


----------



## The_Driver

Patriot said:


> Sure thing Bob!
> 
> 
> Here's a video of the XeVision LEMAX LX70 at only 100M compared to some other lights...
> 
> Part 2 will be up later tonight...



Thanks for your efforts! Can't wait for the next videos and the desktop review


----------



## XeRay

http://www.xevision.com/pdf/LX70_LX50II_ANSI_NEMA_test_report 012014.pdf
Here is a link that should be of great interest, test results on both the 35/50 and the 50/70 watt units. These are certified results from a testing lab. Here are some numbers to chew on.


----------



## Mr. Tone

Wow, XeRay, those are fantastic numbers. Great job on these! :twothumbs


----------



## Mr. Tone

Thanks for the pics and video, Patriot. That makes it even more obvious how great a performer the LX70 is.


----------



## Patriot

XeRay said:


> http://www.xevision.com/pdf/LX70_LX50II_ANSI_NEMA_test_report 012014.pdf
> Here is a link that should be of great interest, test results on both the 35/50 and the 50/70 watt units. These are certified results from a testing lab. Here are some numbers to chew on.



Wow! Impressive throw figures. My first, off the cuff reading at 100M was 1,176,000cd. I was in a hurry and probably could have found a hotter spot in the beam but to see it anywhere north of 1M cd is awesome for a long-arc and 100mm reflector. 




Mr. Tone said:


> Thanks for the pics and video, Patriot. That makes it even more obvious how great a performer the LX70 is.



Yeah, it's really in it's own performance category when it comes to hand held HID's. I've purposely stayed mostly neutral in the beamshots videos because it really speaks for itself. I will be re-shooting the desktop review where I talk about everything that I've learned with this light. I had the XeVision out to 1400 meters the other night and captured it with the video camera. The difference in throw between it and the Polarion's was quite shocking to be honest.

Part 2 of the beamshot series can be found here.

Part 3 and the 1400 meter beamshots will be up on Friday...


----------



## BVH

Excellent review videos Paul - as usual! What a great tuning of lamp output and reflector size and design! As one who is heavy into throwers, that's my kind of handheld throwing HID!


----------



## The_Driver

@Patriot: can't wait 

@Xevision: how are the lights focused? Even for this size reflector the throw is very, very good. Do put on the the electrode tips into the focus point of the reflector?


----------



## XeRay

The_Driver said:


> @Patriot: can't wait
> 
> @Xevision: how are the lights focused? Even for this size reflector the throw is very, very good. Do put on the the electrode tips into the focus point of the reflector?



Sorry but some things cannot be revealed, IP details.


----------



## BeastFlashlight

This light seperates the men from the boys. Compared to a lot of people I throw money around like a nut but u guys have me feeling like a little boy. I have a decent amount of reckless abandon when it comes to my wallet but I'm gonna have to continue to mull this decision over. Can somebody please point out a flaw in this light to give me an excuse to run away


----------



## Mr. Tone

Patriot said:


> Yeah, it's really in it's own performance category when it comes to hand held HID's. I've purposely stayed mostly neutral in the beamshots videos because it really speaks for itself. I will be re-shooting the desktop review where I talk about everything that I've learned with this light. I had the XeVision out to 1400 meters the other night and captured it with the video camera. The difference in throw between it and the Polarion's was quite shocking to be honest.



Yeah, it definitely speaks for itself and it is up against some great competition.



XeRay said:


> Sorry but some things cannot be revealed, IP details.



Understood


----------



## karlthev

BeastFlashlight said:


> This light seperates the men from the boys. Compared to a lot of people I throw money around like a nut but u guys have me feeling like a little boy. I have a decent amount of reckless abandon when it comes to my wallet but I'm gonna have to continue to mull this decision over. Can somebody please point out a flaw in this light to give me an excuse to run away




No, buy it.:devil:

Karl


----------



## BeastFlashlight

karlthev said:


> No, buy it.:devil:
> 
> Karl


I think a purchase like this will require an interest in night diving, I'll try scuba diving out and if I like it I'll be 10x more likely to get it


----------



## karlthev

Well "beast" don't piddle away the money on the Scuba and find you're gonna be short on the LEMAX 70 ya know! Just kidding of course...though if you're not South of the Equator, you may miss the discount sale prior to you getting involved in diving....Hmmm? 

Karl


----------



## The_Driver

@Patriot: which Friday?


----------



## AEHaas

BeastFlashlight said:


> I think a purchase like this will require an interest in night diving, I'll try scuba diving out and if I like it I'll be 10x more likely to get it



I use the 50 watt version for day diving in caverns and out in the open as there are coral overhangs that require extra light. When day diving it is hard to see things under ledges as your eyes are accustomed to the brighter daylight. So people follow me around because I can light up some real interesting things under ledges.

aehaas


----------



## Patriot

The_Driver said:


> @Patriot: which Friday?




Haha!! I read this 10 minutes ago and I'm still smiling. It's really my kind of humor and I'm glad you guys hold me accountable. 

I slept 4 hours the night before so when I came home Friday I crashed after work. I edited the footage last night and it's uploading now. I'm guessing you'll be able to see it in less than an hour...


----------



## BVH

Well......it's about time!!!!  &


----------



## Patriot

BeastFlashlight said:


> Can somebody please point out a flaw in this light to give me an excuse to run away



As a reviewer, I love to find flaws in lights during testing and pointing out actual/real issues I think, lends to one's credibility. The truth is, this light doesn't have ANY substantial flaws or idiosyncrasies. I don't make this declaration lightly either. XeVision LEMAX have done their homework. It has exceeded my expectations in both run-time, throw and overall lumen output. The heatsinking qualities and thermal management have recently impressed as well during some long runs in our hotter than normal weather. In shallow water submersion (up to 9ft) and high pressure water spray, it's been perfect. 

Sorry for the 'bad' news.


----------



## Patriot

BVH said:


> Well......it's about time!!!!  &




LOL!! 

In all seriousness, let me know what you guys think. The 1400 meter testing is like nothing I've ever attempted before. I wouldn't have even thought it was possible before testing the XeVision.


----------



## BVH

I always look back at my Maxabeam and Megaray tests shining at "my 900 Yard tree" and think that even with those throwers, while they easily reach the target, the narrow field of view and the sheer distance viewed by the unaided eye make those lights almost unusable because you can't recognize what you're lighting up. It will be interesting to see what you've done at 1400 Yards.


----------



## Patriot

It's up now...

1400 meters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxn4IuyysY4&list=UUZg3s3cNDob6FkStWu1L2Rw&feature=share

250 meters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6XOfWqYUm0

100 meters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUTsCzXXoHI


----------



## Mr. Tone

Thanks again for the videos. The LX70 is clearly a beast.


----------



## Mr. Tone

BVH said:


> I always look back at my Maxabeam and Megaray tests shining at "my 900 Yard tree" and think that even with those throwers, while they easily reach the target, the narrow field of view and the sheer distance viewed by the unaided eye make those lights almost unusable because you can't recognize what you're lighting up. It will be interesting to see what you've done at 1400 Yards.



It seems that the LX70 has a really bright corona to assist in target recognition at those longer distances. At least in Patriot's videos it seems that even though the hotspot is very tight the corona is bright enough to allow for a much wider field of view than just the hotspot. When you widen the Maxabeam's beam from max focus does that help much or does it lose too much candlepower and focus right away? Does it develop the dreaded donut hole really quick?


----------



## BVH

It takes quite a bit of flooding movement to see the hole. But brightness of the hotspot falls off fast because there are only a few Lumens to begin with relatively speaking - this being a Short Arc lamp with low Lumens-per-Watt output.


----------



## The_Driver

@Patriot: as always - nice video 

When will the review be up?


----------



## Mr. Tone

BVH said:


> It takes quite a bit of flooding movement to see the hole. But brightness of the hotspot falls off fast because there are only a few Lumens to begin with relatively speaking - this being a Short Arc lamp with low Lumens-per-Watt output.



That is what I figured.


----------



## BVH

Just viewed the video. The 70 lands a reasonably bright spot at the top of the 1,600 Yard hill, easily viewable on my screen despite the room being bright. Knowing how the pic quality erodes from the base resolution to the 800 x 600 CPF max reso, I can imagine what you actually saw was pretty impressive. The only variable I can't account for is the added brightness from your mentioned over-exposure. Maybe that washes out the conversion loss?


----------



## Mr. Tone

BVH said:


> Just viewed the video. The 70 lands a reasonably bright spot at the top of the 1,600 Yard hill, easily viewable on my screen despite the room being bright. Knowing how the pic quality erodes from the base resolution to the 800 x 600 CPF max reso, I can imagine what you actually saw was pretty impressive. The only variable I can't account for is the added brightness from your mentioned over-exposure. Maybe that washes out the conversion loss?



I wonder that, too. What is cool is that the outline of the mountain are clearly visible with the 70! 1600 yards is not very far off from a mile at all!


----------



## Patriot

Mr. Tone said:


> It seems that the LX70 has a really bright corona to assist in target recognition at those longer distances. At least in Patriot's videos it seems that even though the hotspot is very tight the corona is bright enough to allow for a much wider field of view than just the hotspot. When you widen the Maxabeam's beam from max focus does that help much or does it lose too much candlepower and focus right away? Does it develop the dreaded donut hole really quick?



The visible light that you saw hitting the hill at 1550 yards actually was the hotspot of the various beams. The corona's, even the XeVision's doens't reach that distance in an amount great enough for the camera to register. I haven't measured the corona but it's almost certainly well below 100k cd and under .075 lux at that distance. The 100 and 250 meter shots clearly show the corona however. It's approx 25% smaller than the Polarion's but also much brighter. Thinking back, the corona of the LX70 should be visible in the foreground of the 1550 yard beamshots.




BVH said:


> Just viewed the video. The 70 lands a reasonably bright spot at the top of the 1,600 Yard hill, easily viewable on my screen despite the room being bright. Knowing how the pic quality erodes from the base resolution to the 800 x 600 CPF max reso, I can imagine what you actually saw was pretty impressive. The only variable I can't account for is the added brightness from your mentioned over-exposure. Maybe that washes out the conversion loss?



Cool! It's new territory for me and wouldn't have been possible with normal camera settings. The video is actually available to see in 720P resolution via the little gear at the bottom tool bar and won't be effected by the resolution caps of CPF. Since there's no conversion loss, other than some compression from the upload to Youtube, we've actually got a slight net gain in the amount of light hitting the hill as compared to what the eyes see. The downside is the greatly decreased frame rate but at least it captures what we need it to and it didn't seem overly annoying. 







The problem with all photos and videos shot from behind the beam at greater distance, is the illuminated particulates in the atmosphere, especially here in AZ with our outrageous pollen count. The trees and plants are going nuts with our warm winter this year! In the closer beamshots, this isn't really a problem because the target gets illuminated so much brighter relative to the short distance of lit atmosphere. In the far shots the target is relatively dim compared to the distance of lit atmosphere. Besides the perspective issue, less light is making it to the target because it's being scattered by those floating particles. I thought the off angle shots revealed a lot more light on the hill side than the one's from right behind the camera. I'd like to go repeat this test on one of those crystal clear days that we have from time to time and see how much difference there is.


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## Mr. Tone

I am experiencing some extreme winter weather as I type this and you are talking about pollen counts, lol!


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## get-lit

You can talk about pollen count in the winter when you have jumping cacti in your vids lol.

The difficulty seeing the 1400m ridge with the larger corona beam and having to hold the light away from your line of sight to diminish that affect perfectly illustrates the benefit of beams with reduced corona. Large coronas have a blinding affect on what you're trying to identify within the center spot at distance.

EDIT - After watching the whole video, this was especially evident when you moved 50 feet to the left at around 7 min into the video. Inline coronas are just harmful to target identification at distance. Zero spill and zero corona all the way!


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## BeastFlashlight

Patriot said:


> As a reviewer, I love to find flaws in lights during testing and pointing out actual/real issues I think, lends to one's credibility. The truth is, this light doesn't have ANY substantial flaws or idiosyncrasies. I don't make this declaration lightly either...it's been perfect...Sorry for the 'bad' news.


Lol you're killing me!! Patriot, the absolute guru of reviews & picking a light apart tells me that it's perfect haha...now I don't even have the option to pretend that it's not as great as all the hype

AEhaas you're no help either lol


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## Patriot

get-lit said:


> You can talk about pollen count in the winter when you have jumping cacti in your vids lol.
> 
> EDIT - After watching the whole video, this was especially evident when you moved 50 feet to the left at around 7 min into the video. Inline coronas are just harmful to target identification at distance. Zero spill and zero corona all the way!



Yes, the warm temps have been nearly silly this year. Perhaps the summer temps will only be 105F instead of 118F...haha. 

Of course it all depends on what that distance is and what we're trying to do. At under 200-300 yards, if I'm trying to find a person, I'm fine with big coronas. If I'm trying to find a downed aircraft, car or structure at 400-1000 yards I like the beam of the LX70. If I already know where something is and I'm trying to ID it with optics then yes, short arc all the way! 





BeastFlashlight said:


> Lol you're killing me!! Patriot, the absolute guru of reviews & picking a light apart tells me that it's perfect haha...now I don't even have the option to pretend that it's not as great as all the hype



I'm not sure if I could say anything is perfect, although I've always been kinda fond of Gwen Stefani.  I would say that it's free from any glaring issues or annoyances. For example, even though I sometimes have trouble switching on the light the first time with the rotational switch, it's a good design compromise because the thing that would bother me more is if the light switched on when I didn't want it to. A HID light that comes on accidentally is an issue and a battery that self discharges in storage is annoying. The LX70 doesn't do any of that and what it does do it does fantastically.


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## BeastFlashlight

I agree that that's a good design compromise compared to those alternatives


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## BeastFlashlight

Lol so i'm watching For Your Eyes Only right now (Bond 1981), there's a dive scene & I just started laughing looking at their dive lights, they look like Fisherprice toys


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## AceDan

Hi guys, so which setup is the better solution with the Lemax/Xeray LX70? In terms of the internals?

(XeSparQ igniter and a Philips DL50/740 bulb) - Do both Lemax / Xeray offer the same package for the LX70?


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## AceDan

AceDan said:


> Hi guys, so which setup is the better solution with the Lemax/Xeray LS70? In terms of the internals?



(XeSparQ igniter and a Philips DL50/740 bulb) - Do both Lemax/Xeray offer the same bulb?


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## XeRay

AceDan said:


> (XeSparQ igniter and a Philips DL50/740 bulb) - Do both Lemax/Xeray offer the same bulb?


No they don't currently offer the XeSparQ option and the special high wattage bulb. Currently only we offer it in that configuration. We are looking into the possibility, with them to offer it as well, from Lemax as an option or as Standard equipment.


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## XeRay

The videos from Patriot are quite impressive. I would be curious how it does at say 2000 meters or yards. Maybe Bob (BVH) can try that. He will be getting the light next, in early March.


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## AceDan

XeRay said:


> No they don't currently offer the XeSparQ option and the special high wattage bulb. Currently only we offer it in that configuration. We are looking into the possibility, with them to offer it as well, from Lemax as an option or as Standard equipment.



Thanks for the info. I emailed Dan at Xevision to see if there was a way of getting the upgrade kit as I live in the UK and want to avoid customs charges at all costs by buying from Lemax, but not had a reply as yet unfortunately.


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## XeRay

Patriot, a question for you on the surefire arc thread.


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## The_Driver

@Patriot: any updates?


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## BVH

This is not meant to answer the questions to Patriot. I received the light yesterday and am in the process of setting up a shoot.


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## Mr. Tone

BVH said:


> This is not meant to answer the questions to Patriot. I received the light yesterday and am in the process of setting up a shoot.



sweet!


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## The_Driver

Any updates?


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## BVH

Due to a bunch a rainy eves and limited days to take pics and all pics taken on the first go-around turning out unusable, no progress yet. I went out two nights ago and attempted to capture what I saw with no success. There's so much moisture and particulates in the air around here that I'm having a heck of a time.


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## The_Driver

ok, keep it up. Do you know what's up with Patriot?

A German review of the Lemax version (different bulb) can be found here.


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## BVH

Beam shots data coming late tonight or tomorrow. 

EDIT: Ummmm....I got distracted and forgot the long shot! :thinking: Let's say Friday eve/Saturday morn for posting.


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## BVH

Everything finally fell together on April 8th for our beam shots of the Xeray Lemax 50/70. Let me express my sincere gratitude to member Froggy Taco for his help in not only securing the target range, but for providing the high end camera equipment and photography expertise in producing what we feel represents what we saw. A Thank You also goes to Matt, the property owner. All I had to do was show up with the light and aim it right! That was no easy task given how one must stand at the tripod with light attached and try to see the target with so much light in the beam and foreground destroying and distance vision. I’d initially aim as best I could with the help of Froggy Taco who was about 75 feet to the side at the camera , then I’d move 50 feet away and check my aim and make any adjustments. It was a joint effort to accomplish each aim. 

The camera used was a Canon 40D with 85 mm lens and settings of: ISO – 400, F-8, exposures of 5,6 & 8 seconds (to give us a choice of the most representative of the 3). The targets are all trees – one at 555 Yards, one at 1007 Yards and one at 1265 Yards. In general, the 5 second ORIGINAL, Full-Size, Full-Resolution shot well represents what the hotspot looked like but it slightly under-represents the foreground spill. HOWEVER in my efforts to be as accurate as I am able to and not embellish nor short-change the performance of the light, I am posting the 8-second exposure shots because they best depict what was seen after downsizing the shot to fit within CPF photo size limits. I have posted links under each shot to the original 5-second exposure hosted on my Photobucket account so those wanting to see the original shots which represent what was seen can do so. I encourage you to go see these shots. It gives a much better rendition of what the light does. Unfortunately, I can’t figure out why it takes 3 clicks to get to the shot. Maybe someone with a PB account can tell me how to streamline the process. Instructions: Original Full Size - click link below the posted pic and it opens a new pic. Click on magnifying glass in lower right corner of the new pic. It opens another new identical pic. Finally click on magnifying glass in lower right corner of new pic and full size will open. Scroll to find the target tree. Also, at the top of each posted pic is a bar that will get you a 1024 x 768 size pic which is better but not as good as the full size image. And finally, I added Maxabeam Gen3, 80 Watt pics of the same exposure time and target below each pic. 

The LeMax looks and feels quite substantial in my hands. It carries comfortably and is balanced well. None-the-less, it is a relatively heavy light (similar to Polarions) and I would end up trading off hands with long duration use but I’m a light-duty guy at 145 lbs – your mileage may vary. You certainly won’t turn it on by mistake. Quite a few degrees of turn of the continuous ring are required in either direction for ignition, but the faster you turn it, the less rotation is required.

Having had the opportunity to finally shoot at a range when I could take my time and not worry about police helicopters or police cars or lookie-loos, I made some prolonged observations and I’ll say again what I’ve said before and that is all of these super quality lights like this LeMax and Polarions, are super bright and send lots of Lumens way down field – some, including this one, well over 1,200 Yards but as I verified with myself on this shoot, all of this light is pretty much wasted at the far distances UNLESS you have binoculars or some other eye-aiding device or you have searchers at those distances. Thinking in terms of Search and Rescue, even at the 555 Yard tree, I would have trouble identifying a motionless person in medium to dark colored clothing laying on the ground. With vision aids, the light this light produces would make that task very easy. In my opinion, this light in high mode would allow me to identify a motionless human on the ground without eye aids at up to 450, maybe 500 Yards. Of course, if you’re looking for a vehicle or other large object, then the un-aided eye usable distance would increase.


Daytime views

At distance







Closer





Control Shot






L50 @ 555 Yards





Original Full Size - click link below, opens new pic. Click on magnifying glass in lower right corner of pic. Opens another new identical pic, The finally click on magnifying glass in lower right corner of new pic and full size will open.
http://s3.photobucket.com/user/BVH/media/LeMax Shoot/IMG_1277.jpg.html





L70 @ 555 Yards





Original
http://s3.photobucket.com/user/BVH/media/LeMax Shoot/IMG_1280.jpg.html

Maxabeam 










L50 @ 1007 Yards





Original
http://s3.photobucket.com/user/BVH/media/LeMax Shoot/IMG_1283.jpg.html




L70 @ 1007 Yards





Original
http://s3.photobucket.com/user/BVH/media/LeMax Shoot/IMG_1287.jpg.html

Maxabeam








L50 @ 1265 Yards





Original
http://s3.photobucket.com/user/BVH/media/LeMax Shoot/IMG_1384.jpg.html




L70 @ 1265 Yards





Original
http://s3.photobucket.com/user/BVH/media/LeMax Shoot/IMG_1381.jpg.html

Maxabeam (wrong tree, was too far left so it's only 1235 Yards)






With FroggyTaco's help, we were able capture the Maxabeam spot with a close-up taken from somewhere around 200 feet away on the 1235 Yard target tree. To my eyes, reality was about 20% more light than in pic 1, but significantly less than in pic 2.










Just for fun and very over-exposed:


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## FroggyTaco

Thanks for bringing all the cool toys BVH! First off since I love neutral tints I loved the Lemax on tint alone. This also my first experience with high output lights with some range to see what they could do. I have been to a few San Jose get togethers & they shone some HID's straight up into the sky but this was much more real world experience.

My simple opinion is that Lemax is a great S&R light. Between the tint and far more useable spill; within most humans ability to perceive anything of consequence the light is a straight up win. I liked this lights combination of spill & hotspot. It warmed up fast and was at full brightness & color temp within seconds.

Travis


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## BVH

Finally finished! Pics above


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## BVH

Added Maxabeam Gen3, 80 Watt comparison pics of same target and exposure.


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## Joe_torch

Excellent beam shots! Thanks for sharing & your great efforts!:twothumbs


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## The_Driver

Thanks for your efforts! 
I think the pictures came out very well .

*EDIT:* you didn't link your most impressive picture 

//stalker-mode off


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## BVH

I completely forgot about that one. So I added it.


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## Patriot

Bob, those are really great! The pictures are so clean.. I think I'm jealous of FroggyTaco's equipment & skills! That looks like a great testing location and I'm glad you guys were able to use it. I thought it was funny that the MaxaBeam ended up pointed at the wrong tree in the most distant shots. It's so darn easy to do that with that light because the beam is so narrow. 

Thanks to both of you guys for taking the time to bring us the best bean shots yet!


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## The_Driver

@Patriot: Don't want tu bug you, but are you still doing a video review?


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## Patriot

The_Driver said:


> @Patriot: Don't want tu bug you, but are you still doing a video review?



Yeah, I'll probably still post some kind of desktop review but I'm dealing with fragmented video. Part was recorded on one SD card and part of the video was on another. One of the cards had corrupted data and this wasn't discovered until the light was shipped back and therefore not available to simply re-shoot. Sometimes the video topic comes easily to me and other times it's a struggle. This one was a struggle and very time consuming. One of my early video takes was an hour and I don't even like going over 20 minutes on these reviews because it's easy to abandon the non-CPFer. In any case, it's a matter of assembling the video footage in a coherent fashion and shooting an intro video explaining the gaps. I've been doing a lot with my firearms hobby as of late and just haven't made time for the lights...haha. Too many interests I guess.


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## The_Driver

Patriot said:


> Yeah, I'll probably still post some kind of desktop review but I'm dealing with fragmented video. Part was recorded on one SD card and part of the video was on another. One of the cards had corrupted data and this wasn't discovered until the light was shipped back and therefore not available to simply re-shoot. Sometimes the video topic comes easily to me and other times it's a struggle. This one was a struggle and very time consuming. One of my early video takes was an hour and I don't even like going over 20 minutes on these reviews because it's easy to abandon the non-CPFer. In any case, it's a matter of assembling the video footage in a coherent fashion and shooting an intro video explaining the gaps. I've been doing a lot with my firearms hobby as of late and just haven't made time for the lights...haha. Too many interests I guess.



I enjoy your vids - I'd probably watch an hour long vid on such a nice light since - I've managed to sit through an hour watching you pull things out of your backpack    (obviously it was interesting)


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## FroggyTaco

Glad to be of service.

Travis


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## Patt

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



Joe_torch said:


> Hi Glowmo
> Very nice beamshots. Thanks for sharing!
> The performance of LX50 is really impressive.
> Can you tell us how far is the tower?
> Thanks
> Joe



The LX50 = 1500 meters throw :wow:

LX70 = 2300 meters throw :rock:


Patt


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## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

A new Mfg's Group Buy offering to CPF members coming soon to CPF - MarketPlace!


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## FILA BRAZILIA

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Interesting, bring it out! 





BVH said:


> A new Mfg's Group Buy offering to CPF members coming soon to CPF - MarketPlace!


----------



## BVH

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Group Buy Offer CLOSED..... Manufacturer's Group Buy now up and available for sign-ups over at the MarketPlace Group Buy Section.


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## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Hello, I've been gone for awhile, just wondering how much WAS that group buy on the XV-LX70?


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## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

AHHHHHHHHHHH I want this light!!!!!! I'm very loose with money but i'd literally have to be 'Off my rocker' loose with money to buy this! Well based on my income level and my mere casual use of flashlights that is. I can afford it though AHHHHHH!!!! I'm just having a conversation with myself here, maybe someday I'll crack and pull the trigger


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## bulbmogul

*Re: New Xeray XV-LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Whom sells these lights besides the company themselves and what can one expect to pay here in USA to purchase a brand new one in the box..?


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## bulbmogul

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Would someone come forward whom has actually purchased one of these and share your thoughts about it..? Thanks jerry in nw ohio


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## BVH

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Xevision is the only US seller/MFG of the LeMax 70. Just under $2,600.

xevision.com/hid_searchlights.html 

I assume you've read this thread and the multiple reviews Patriot and I did with this light so there's two opinions for you. Build quality of this LeMax and the Polarion Helios 40 Watt I used to have are of equal, very high quality. This light produces 1,800 more Lumens than the Night Reaper and has a larger reflector, IIRC. I don't know the cost of the Night reaper but I think the original NR was a lot more than the LeMax. IIRC, run time on 70 Watts is 1.5 hours+, but don't quite remember 100%. If you need a handheld light to see and "easily identify" objects the size of a medium size dog and larger out to 750 Yards+ then this is an excellent candidate. The beam will hit a large target at 1300 Yards but you'll need some type of optics/binoculars to identify what it is you're hitting. You won't find anything better in its' class out there in my opinion.


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## bulbmogul

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Any owners here on this forum that have purchased this light and care to share pictures of it..? Looking to see them pictured that is not company stock photo..Thinking i like one of these "JUST BECAUSE"


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## BVH

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Not sure if you have read this entire thread? Here's one post from this thread with Patriots pics from his review. Have you seen his video reviews? There linked in this thread, too.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...olarion-PH50&p=4335025&viewfull=1#post4335025


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## BeastFlashlight

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Has anyone gone night diving with this beast?


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



BeastFlashlight said:


> Has anyone gone night diving with this beast?



I can't comment to that, but we have added a 2nd O-ring (redundant) for battery mating, to insure that water never could get in unless both O-rings are compromised.
Our Search and rescue customers (dive use) asked for that, they wanted the extra "piece of mind", can't say I blame them.


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## caseyse

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Thank you for posting this review. I had been considering the purchase of a Maxabeam, but the LX70 offers a broader utility as depicted in your pictures.


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## The_Driver

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

Some guys in the German TLF forum took some beamshots of the the LX70, the Microfire K3500R Warrior III, Firefoxes FF4, Polarion X1, Polarion PH50 and a 100W Sanmak (11" Reflector) Mod. The results were imho as expected, but it's still nice to have confirmation.


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## XeRay

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*



The_Driver said:


> Some guys in the German TLF forum took some beamshots of the the LX70, the Microfire K3500R Warrior III, Firefoxes FF4, Polarion X1, Polarion PH50 and a 100W Sanmak (11" Reflector) Mod. The results were imho as expected, but it's still nice to have confirmation.



Good find, thanks for sharing that.


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## Offgridled

*Re: New Lemax LX70. Killer Polarion PH50.*

That's simply amazing. Great work guys.


----------

