# will mobile phone flashlight apps stop the need to edc a flashlight



## Blue72 (Jun 6, 2012)

phones and flashlight apps are very bright now and the runtimes are fantastic. Do we still need to edc a flashlight?

Sure its not 100 lumens bright, but bright enough for most tasks


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## nbp (Jun 6, 2012)

Till you drop it and it shatters.

Or you run out of juice in the woods and have no way to replace the cell quickly and easily. 

Or it gets wet and dies.

Or you want to light something up and talk on the phone at the same time.

Or you need to light something up more than 3 feet away.

Or you want to use light something up in an area where phones are prohibited.

Or any number of other good reasons why a phone does not replace a flashlight. I don't have a flashlight app on my iPhone, nor do I care to get one. I have flashlights for flashlights.


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## edpmis02 (Jun 6, 2012)

Anything is better than nothing in an emergency.

My phone has a 4.3 inch screen with heavy rubber bumpers.. I have a screen lighting app as well as an app that lights the camera flash's LEDs. 

No throw whatsoever and dont want to risk a $500 phone when a small keychain light will do the job.


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## SCEMan (Jun 6, 2012)

Good thread. My smart phone is always with me and plenty bright to illuminate the stairs or bedroom for trips between rooms. No need to grab the NDI for bathroom calls. Outside is another story, and here my high CRI Maratac Cu gets the nod.


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## Divine_Madcat (Jun 6, 2012)

As said, anything is better than nothing, but in no way could a phone ever replace more than a basic key chain light. There is so much more to a good edc light, than just outputting light.. Form factor, power source, weather resistance, output modes, durability, etc. 

As it is, if i find myself in an emergency, the last thing I want to be doing is burning the battery on my one lifeline to the outside world...


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## yliu (Jun 6, 2012)

Although I have an iPhone, I still use my Olight i3. 

It's the same reason why people don't use Swiss army knives in their kitchens.


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## Illum (Jun 6, 2012)

Divine_Madcat said:


> As said, anything is better than nothing, but in no way could a phone ever replace more than a basic key chain light.



Heh, funny you should mention that. my cellphone replaced the keychain light on my keys, of course... thats one of two keychain lights I carry on top of my primary EDC and its backup


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## tam17 (Jun 6, 2012)

Although I have dedicated flashlight built into my basic Nokia phone, I'm always EDCing one of my small Fenixes or a Jetbeam, plus a spare battery. I'm not sure if any of poorly heatsinked smartphone flash LEDs can deliver what average quality small flashlight can (with ease). Regarding modern omnifunctional gadgets, I'd stick to the old saying - "The more functions a device has, the worse it performs each of them."

Cheers


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## reppans (Jun 6, 2012)

The apps that use the screen seem pretty limited, but the apps that use the smartphone's LED camera flash seem pretty good. 

No question that a dedicated device is will always be better than a smartphone that tries to do it all, but for the minimalist, I think it really can replace a lot of things. I understand that something like the iPhone is putting a serious dent in the sales of point and shoot cameras, video cameras, GPSs, Nintendos, etc, etc...


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## Cataract (Jun 6, 2012)

I can't imagine myself walking through the woods with a phone strapped to my forehead


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## LGT (Jun 6, 2012)

I guess that would depend on what you EDC and use it for. As SCEMan said, it's sufficient for a trip from room to room. But I really can't see it replacing an EDC for outdoor use. I'd also rather use a flashlight when needed just to save the battery life on my phone. You never know when you might be stuck in a situation where you're unable to recharge your phone for some time, while you're EDC and back up(s) should provide many hours of usable light.


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## BobEvans (Jun 6, 2012)

The camera flash on my phone was never that great. However, after using it as a flashlight it washes my photos in a more noticeably blue light.

Also, a rapidly dying cell battery and the unplanned need for street-level GPS and light across several blocks of poorly-lit, uneven sidewalk construction prompted me to start EDC'ing flashlights.


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## Blue72 (Jun 6, 2012)

Cataract said:


> I can't imagine myself walking through the woods with a phone strapped to my forehead




Im not talking about replacing flashlights for more important task, especially being in the great outdoors

Im just talking about maybe replacing your keychain light


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## scout24 (Jun 6, 2012)

Not a chance, for me... If I even have to consider my phone as a light source, I'd be in way too deep... 8th string backup? Maybe? Maybe not even then.


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## TEEJ (Jun 6, 2012)

dd61999 said:


> Im not talking about replacing flashlights for more important task, especially being in the great outdoors
> 
> Im just talking about maybe replacing your keychain light



I have a key chain light on my key chain...as, if I need to find a key hole, I don't ALSO want to have to aim my PHONE too, etc.



I edc a Klarus XT11 which for what I USE it for, would not be replaceable by my cell phone...in any way or shape.

If all someone uses their light for is to find key holes, or if they dropped their keys, or their glasses, etc, and just needed a little lighting right by their feet...almost anything works of course, even a candle.

I DO have (More than one actually, I do experiment) flashlight apps on my phone...and, I have used the phone as a light...BUT - ONLY if I already had the phone OUT, and, it was handy to use it that way...or I was just playing with it.

Generally, by the time you hit the couple of buttons to get to the app, and light it up...you could have simply turned on a flashlight.




Now, I might just go and program a flashlight so I can make calls from it and surf the web, get email, etc.....


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## Machete God (Jun 6, 2012)

My phone isn't a smart one, so it can't do apps. But it does have a flashlight built-in, 5 lumens... at most. I still have a flashlight on my key ring and another two on me, almost all the time.

Mobile phone flashlight apps may be good enough for Joe Public, but we aren't Joe Public, are we?


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## TEEJ (Jun 6, 2012)

One of my sons was in the broadcast booth during a soccer tournament where he worked when a freak storm came in, and high winds and thrown branches crashed through the booth windows and knocked out the power to the area, so the entire facility was plunged into darkness, bleachers and walkways down to the lot and field, etc, were blocked by branches, stumbling people trying to escape, etc...in heavy wind and rain.

He calmly opened his phone (Not even a flashlight app, just the light from the SCREEN, and lead every one out to safety by setting people at the exit routes to direct the lost in the right direction, and then going to find the next route, etc.

His boss told me the story when I had asked him WTH had HAPPENED later that night when I showed up to pick my son up...not knowing the place had gotten trashed. 

So, the moral of the story is that a phone CAN be useful if its that, or pitch blackness.


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## Dr. Strangelove (Jun 6, 2012)

Cataract said:


> I can't imagine myself walking through the woods with a phone strapped to my forehead



I can! (only kidding!)

I have a flashlight app that uses either the screen (moonlight mode?) or the flash. However, it's really a second level backup to my primary and backup EDC. Since I've never had a double flashlight failure (thank goodness), I've never used it except to play with.


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## Blue72 (Jun 6, 2012)

but why as a backup

I have used the flashlight app for hours straight (which made me start this thread). Especially for those who like simplicity.

Almost like ditching the point and shoot camera's, why bother when the latest phones are good enough. Matter of fact taking rapid pictures on a iphone is better than most point and shoot cameras

Personally I cant let my keychain light go. But if I was not a flashaholic, I probably do it in a heartbeat!!


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## TEEJ (Jun 6, 2012)

Its about what your life is like.

Mine would not work with a phone as my light.....at all.


As for the point and hoot, again, it depends on what your life is like. A digital zoom is useless to me, I need optical, and control of exposures and things phones have trouble with.

Other people, sure, they could use a shoe box with a pin hole for the camera and a candle for the light and it would be adequate.


So, its not WRONG to use a phone for a light, any port in a storm, etc, is fine...but, if edc means what it does to me, its not an option for me at least.

My phone IS an edc, just not an edc _light_ per se.


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## JurT (Jun 7, 2012)

I have to see my light on the iphone4s is nice. But as mentioned before if the phone falls you got nothing. When the flashlight falls and you got some quality you just pick it up and it still runs.

Sometimes it's handy but most of the time is just pick my flashlight.


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## jalal20 (Jun 7, 2012)

my phone was made to be a phone, you can't tell a donkey to enter a horse race can you? 
It will never ever replace my haiku, mule and HDS EDCs :nana:


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## Cataract (Jun 7, 2012)

dd61999 said:


> Im not talking about replacing flashlights for more important task, especially being in the great outdoors
> 
> Im just talking about maybe replacing your keychain light



With that clarification in mind, I have to say that I love my keychain light too much for that and I suspect most people here do too. It might not replace a lot of keychain lights, but it will put a flashlight in a lot unenlightened people's pockets. We can't get most of this mass of people to be ready for even the smallest things, but at leat more of them have an emergency light at hand and more will as phones evole into everything apps (with which your life stops when the battery dies). Throw and battery life issues considered, I definitely prefer to keep my L0D where it is, but I wouldn't reject a phone light when that battery is dead. To me it's just an extra backup for the backup of the backup, but it's also a feature that might keep others from wanting to mooch my precious when the SHTF. My 2 lumens.


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## OCD (Jun 7, 2012)

I can't believe nobody mentioned what you would do when you actually are using your phone as a PHONE, talking to someone...in the dark? Put it on speaker as you try to use your phone as a light? :shakehead


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 7, 2012)

most flashlight apps are aftermarket. Just like how you can put turbos and nos in a civic and it will drive faster. Doesn't mean that it's a replacement for getting a sporty car.


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## ryukin2000 (Jun 7, 2012)

My wife has a Nexus S and the led on that thing is bright. good flood. its a good compliment to any key chain light.


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## ZMZ67 (Jun 7, 2012)

The flashlight app I have on my phone is very pretty decent but I won't be eliminating any EDC lights.At the rate smart phones go through battery it just doesn't seem wise to depend on your phone for light.I already use my phone as a radio,alarm clock,calender etc. so adding one more task that may be critical in an emergency isn't for me.


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## moozooh (Jun 7, 2012)

I carry my keys only when outdoors _(durr)_, but outdoors is exactly where my phone is completely useless as a light source! I have better results carrying around a Blackburn Flea from my bike.


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## derangboy (Jun 7, 2012)

When Dave manages to cram a cell phone into a Spy 007, I'll stop carrying both 

Seriously though, most people here have a dedicated light (or three) for good reasons. Having a cell phone that can light up is more likely to help people who wouldn't think to have a flashlight at the ready in the first place.


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## Silent_Thunder (Jun 8, 2012)

Does my Sonim qualifies for a flashlight? :thinking: (Battery LI-ion 3.7V 1750mAh)


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## kramer5150 (Jun 8, 2012)

no. I just bought my wife an iphone 4S, barely gets 8-9 hours on a charge with only moderate use as a phone, GPS or other features. That would only drop, using its screen or flash as a flashlight. No way I'm replacing a good key-ring light with that. She still carries a gerber AAA on her key-ring.


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## nbp (Jun 8, 2012)

8-9 hours?! What is she doing with it?! I charge my iPhone4 every other night usually. Check your updates, location settings, push notifications, screen brightness, stuff like that. It should last longer.


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## kramer5150 (Jun 8, 2012)

nbp said:


> 8-9 hours?! What is she doing with it?! I charge my iPhone4 every other night usually. Check your updates, location settings, push notifications, screen brightness, stuff like that. It should last longer.



Just asked her about it in more detail. If its only left on standby and not used during the day it has 85% remaining by ~10:00PM, and she needs a re-charge only every other day.

Normally though she uses it a lot more than most because her company does not allow www access, so she uses it for www browsing, email (etc) probably a lot more than most. She gets ~5-10 txt messages each day, and is constantly using it for games too... under such conditions battery capacity is down to ~10% by around 10:00. Unfortunately she is far sighted and needs the screen running at its brightest.

I dont see how a device like this could ever completely replace a flashlight as an EDC tool.


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## nbp (Jun 8, 2012)

kramer5150 said:


> Just asked her about it in more detail. If its only left on standby and not used during the day it has 85% remaining by ~10:00PM, and she needs a re-charge only every other day.
> 
> Normally though she uses it a lot more than most because her company does not allow www access, so she uses it for www browsing, email (etc) probably a lot more than most. She gets ~5-10 txt messages each day, and is constantly using it for games too... under such conditions battery capacity is down to ~10% by around 10:00. Unfortunately she is far sighted and needs the screen running at its brightest.
> 
> I dont see how a device like this could ever completely replace a flashlight as an EDC tool.



Ok, that makes sense. Gaming and lots of browsing will do that, and the screen uses up a lot of juice. I keep it at the minimum brightness I can for that reason.


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## archimedes (Jun 8, 2012)

nbp said:


> Ok, that makes sense. Gaming and lots of browsing will do that, and the screen uses up a lot of juice. I keep it at the minimum brightness I can for that reason.



It is amazing how much battery drain goes to just the screen !

On my current phone, I set the screen at 12% brightness and the battery monitor reports over 60% of the consumption is from the screen alone (compared with 8% for the browser, and 7% for the OS overhead). I also leave all the "radios" off (WiFi, BT, GPS, etc) unless/until needed ....


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## luceat lux vestra (Jun 13, 2012)

SAD...............:fail: I am always telling my friends that is not acceptable


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## kramer5150 (Jun 13, 2012)

On a recent trip to Yosemite, we used the GPS to spot check our progress between small towns, maybe 3-5 minutes of route tracking every ~30-40 minutes on a 4.5 hour drive. She sent a couple text messages, placed 2-3 calls throughout the day, used the Shopkick AP 3-4 times that day, and took 5-6 pictures. By ~6:30 PM the battery was done.

We didn’t do any video streaming, media playing, music playing…. or use it for any of the “cool stuff” this phone is advertised for. Bluetooth is shut off and we used the screen on its brightest setting (she is far sighted and needs to see the screen text).

The one thing we didn't do is de-activate the wi-fi scanner, so hopefully that will free up an extra hour or two.... but I doubt it.

Battery life on this completely stinks... no way this device could EVER replace a dedicated EDC tool (compass, GPS, flashlight...etc). You could probably use the screen as a mediocre signaling mirror though... its a nice screen thats for sure, and thats probably its biggest selling point.


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## f22shift (Jun 13, 2012)

kramer5150 said:


> On a recent trip to Yosemite, we used the GPS to spot check our progress between small towns, maybe 3-5 minutes of route tracking every ~30-40 minutes on a 4.5 hour drive. She sent a couple text messages, placed 2-3 calls throughout the day, used the Shopkick AP 3-4 times that day, and took 5-6 pictures. By ~6:30 PM the battery was done.
> 
> We didn’t do any video streaming, media playing, music playing…. or use it for any of the “cool stuff” this phone is advertised for. Bluetooth is shut off and we used the screen on its brightest setting (she is far sighted and needs to see the screen text).
> 
> ...



sounds about right the way she is using it. actually the music playing uses the least juice.
games would use the most because of the processing power. high screen brightness will use ALOT. wifi of course will use a lot if it's hunting around constantly looking for connections. even bad cell reception will use some because of the constant search for towers. gps can run down an iPhone in a couple hours in constant use. i think the route tracking will use more juice because it's laying points or a trail down vs the google map. hd video uses a lot too. photos should be okay.

reduce screen brightness
shut off any excess radios(bluetooth, wifi)
change the push email to longer periods(not fun if you use it like a conversation)
shut of 3g(faster but uses more energy vs slower data)

but anyway, sounds about right by the way you are using the phone. especially the full screen brightness.
i recommend leave a charger at work and one in the car. there is no reason not too top off at all times rather than run down the battery(li-ion).

but back on topic, yes agreed by having one device that does it all, it does nothing particular well so if one function is very important it's better to get a dedicated device like a edc flashlight.


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## nbp (Jun 13, 2012)

Having the phone hunting for signal in the boonies will smoke through battery too. If I'm in a big metal roofed building with poor signal, it's bad. Like I said, under normal usage I charge every other night, but GPS, mapping/tracking, screen brightness, poor signal will use it faster. I try to do what I can with all the various settings to preserve battery health because I am anal about that kind of stuff. Even changing email to fetch once an hour rather than push or turning off other push notifications can help.


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## Cataract (Jun 14, 2012)

f22shift said:


> [...]but back on topic, yes agreed by having one device that does it all, it does nothing particular well so if one function is very important it's better to get a dedicated device like a edc flashlight.



You remind me of something I've been saying recently: devices that do multiple things do none of them correctly. 

In the case of intelligent phones, they do phone correctly, but the battery lifetime seems incredibly reduced by everything else, so I stand by my statement. And I say +1 to poor signal reception draining battery real fast. I've learned to turn my phone off when I'm in a low signal area for more than an hour. I've also learned to turn my flashlight down when in the dark for more than an hour, but that would be a different topic... I think...


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## passive101 (Jun 14, 2012)

It would be to hard for me to ID a target in the dark and shoot at the same time. Also the shape isn't good and don't think it will withstand the concussion and vibration.


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## Dr. Strangelove (Jun 14, 2012)

Everyone's right that a smartphone is a jack of all trades and master of none, but they usually work well enough at most to be really useful. I can have games, movies, songs, GPS, shopping lists, a camera, etc. right at my fingertips in a package the size of a deck of playing cards. No way could I carry all of that gear all of the time. But as a flashlight, well, like I said earlier, it's a backup to my backup EDC.

There's another problem when using the camera flash as a flashlight, on some apps the screen shines back at you and blinds you. I have an app on my iPhone 4 called Vintage Flashlight. It's designed to have the look and feel of an old Ray-O-Vac incan (well, as much as possible). When you open the app, the flash turns on immediately and the screen is dimmed. If you want to turn the flash off without closing the app, you flick the switch on the Ray-O-Vac and it turns the flash off and brightens the screen. And the best thing is that it's free.


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## Cataract (Jun 14, 2012)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> Everyone's right that a smartphone is a jack of all trades and master of none, but they usually work well enough at most to be really useful. I can have games, movies, songs, GPS, shopping lists, a camera, etc. right at my fingertips in a package the size of a deck of playing cards. No way could I carry all of that gear all of the time. But as a flashlight, well, like I said earlier, it's a backup to my backup EDC.
> 
> [...]



I agree, but did you need all that before it existed? I still don't, but I am hardcore... I prefer to get by with my memory, a knife and a compass. The flashlight just keeps me going in the dark since someone cut all the sap trees down.


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## Dr. Strangelove (Jun 14, 2012)

Cataract said:


> I agree, but did you need all that before it existed?



Well, somehow I got along without it for 50+ years, but I'm spoiled now!


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## Cataract (Jun 14, 2012)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> Well, somehow I got along without it for 50+ years, but I'm spoiled now!



I know the feeling. I used to do fine with 0 flashlights and now I have 2-3 and even 4+ just about anywhere I go. The worst part is that other than work, at home just before bedtime or camping, I don't even use them but feel very naked without them. That's why I'm staying away from all those intelligent phones.


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## OCD (Jun 14, 2012)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> I have an app on my iPhone 4 called Vintage Flashlight. It's designed to have the look and feel of an old Ray-O-Vac incan (well, as much as possible). When you open the app, the flash turns on immediately and the screen is dimmed. If you want to turn the flash off without closing the app, you flick the switch on the Ray-O-Vac and it turns the flash off and brightens the screen. And the best thing is that it's free.



My Droid came with equipped with a flashlight app that when opened, looks like a Maglite. When you press the button on the light it turns on the flash in low. Press it again it turns it on high. In the app's menu, you can select "auto flash" or "SOS" modes.

My wife uses it when I go to bed before her to navigate through the dark house. I never use mine....I use one of my MANY flashlights...usually my HDS on low mode.

As previously stated....it's a backup to my backup for my EDC.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jun 14, 2012)

_I love the flashlight on my smartphone. It's the My Touch from T Mobile It is a very bright, flood beam, and even has three speeds. Still.......Two is One, and One is None. 

~ Chance_


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## Wiggle (Jun 19, 2012)

I use a flashlight app on my Bold 9780. Say what you will about Blackberry falling behind the curve but they do offer great battery life and can defnitely survive a tumble. The LED flash has enough output (I'd estimate 15 lumens or so), very floody so in other words nearly perfect for up close work or looking for something that has fallen on the ground. Of course if I want something for any real distance or need something more practical to hold and work with I'd go with my EDC Preon 2 or Quark AA-T but in a pinch it's great. Many people carry a smartphone already so it certainly doesn't hurt to have another backup option.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 19, 2012)

some day, when we have pico projectors built into every phone, the flashlight app will be more useable. Heck, longest throwing flashlight record might end up going to a cell phone. Right now, I think it is just a convenience. Let's be honest, we're all light nerds, or at least, part of us all is. Some non-flashaholics probably wouldn't think it all that important to even carry a flashlight around, or even in the car. These people also probably don't realize that flashlights can be had for $5 that outperform their phone flash.


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## Ishango (Jun 19, 2012)

jalal20 said:


> my phone was made to be a phone, you can't tell a *donkey *to enter a horse race can you?
> It will never ever replace my haiku, *mule *and HDS EDCs :nana:



This just made me smile  This mule of yours is definitely a race horse  

OT: I EDC my iPhone (without a flashlight app), but it will never replace my keychain light or EDC light. As others said, in any emergency I rather not use the phone's battery for light as I always carry several lights. I would use my phone what is was meant for, as a communication device and maybe (careful to not drain the battery) use its' GPS if needed/possible to get a position and direction, but not for anything else.

Edit: I just remembered my work phone (Nokia 1650, not a smartphone) has a LED built in as flashlight. That light actually is quite usable, although I still prefer my keychain/ EDC light for all lighting matters. With the long battery life of the Nokia I would be able to use it if all else fails.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 19, 2012)

The telecom companies want us to use our phones for everything. I refuse. I will carry a flashlight even if my phone were somehow brighter and longer-running, because using one device for too many purposes is putting my eggs in one basket. Better hope the basket never slips and falls.


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## iqwozpoom (Jun 19, 2012)

People walking on a trail with their phone in front of them is almost embarrassing to look at. Phones are not ergonomic enough for me to try to use as an edc light. So, nope.


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## RWT1405 (Jun 19, 2012)

No, not a chance. For many of the reasons already stated. 

My .02 FWIW YMMV


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## Cataract (Jun 19, 2012)

iqwozpoom said:


> People walking on a trail with their phone in front of them is almost embarrassing to look at. Phones are not ergonomic enough for me to try to use as an edc light. So, nope.



Not just embarassing. Imagine they have to call 911 after they drained the battery...


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## fishndad (Jun 19, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> The telecom companies want us to use our phones for everything. I refuse. I will carry a flashlight even if my phone were somehow brighter and longer-running, because using one device for too many purposes is putting my eggs in one basket. Better hope the basket never slips and falls.



Thats It in a NUTSHELL !
Phone , Leatherman , and Flashlight three eggs three baskets


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## baterija (Jun 19, 2012)

My take on the advantages/disadvantages of the phone as EDC light:

Advantages:
- If you have the smart phone, you are probably carrying it around anyway.
On Android at least you could roll your own flashlight app for the UI of your choosing. Other smart phones have more control of the app process without rooting.

Neutral: 
- bright enough for most people's EDC with a floody beam reasonably suited to a lot of EDC needs. Everyone's needs are different though so the beam may be either considered an advantage or disadvantage depending on their typical "every day."
- may vary based on EDC style but my phone is usually far less convenient/timely to pull out, make light, and go away than my EDC clipped to my pocket

Disadvantages:
- Relatively fragile compared to most lights
- No nearly as water resistant as most lights
- Spare batteries for when you are using it a lot becomes relatively costly... if they are even swappable.
- Horrible ergonomics for anything more than brief use.
- Minimal to nonexistent heatsinking. They are driven very mildly but the LED flash at best is dumping most of it's heat inside the expensive phone or just stewing in it causing early output degradation. Anybody want to bet the app makers tested the heat management for a longer run?

There's the other piece which is my light can be with me when I leave my phones. (Sadly yes it's plural, my issue Blackberry and my not that smart feature phone. To save someone the effort, I can't use a private smart phone to access the Exchange server for my official email. Putting my entire personal life through the government account is not something I am authorized or wanting to do. It's two tethers. ) I know to some the concept of not having it within arms reach produces cold sweats.  I don't take the phones when I run. I've been known to leave them charging when I head to meetings where I can't look at them anyway. Some places phones aren't allowed. Dark happens whether I have the phone or not.


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## fyrstormer (Jun 20, 2012)

Dr. Strangelove said:


> Everyone's right that a smartphone is a jack of all trades and master of none, but they usually work well enough at most to be really useful. I can have games, movies, songs, GPS, shopping lists, a camera, etc. right at my fingertips in a package the size of a deck of playing cards. No way could I carry all of that gear all of the time. But as a flashlight, well, like I said earlier, it's a backup to my backup EDC.


Just make sure to bring a solar charger for it.


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## Overclocker (Jun 20, 2012)

my motorola droid has 2 neutral-white emitters driven fairly well by software called TeslaLED. get pretty warm in a few minutes

but they're still too weak compared my carry flashlights... and too fussy to turn on: turn on fone, unlock, goto home, click app


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## vincent3664 (Jun 20, 2012)

Well, I'm almost embarrassed to say, "I don't even own a cellphone, let alone a smart phone". However I do own numerous flashlights, multitools, knives and guns. Not one of them charges a monthly or per minute fee. And I get along just fine. I never understood why some people feel it's necessary to stay in touch with others 24/7. It's actually become a hazard with some people driving, jogging and walking with a cell phone in their ear all the time. I guess I'm just old school.


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## Illum (Jun 20, 2012)

derangboy said:


> Seriously though, most people here have a dedicated light (or three) for good reasons. Having a cell phone that can light up is more likely to help people who wouldn't think to have a flashlight at the ready in the first place.


thats what loaner lights are for 
At least carry one extra... in case it runs away or taken hostage


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## cburris72 (Jun 20, 2012)

No, but why not have a flashlight app? The more prepared you are, the better. I carry a flashlight everywhere and I carry my cellphone everywhere. What's wrong with both? As a flashoholic, I Believe in being prepared.


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## CYMac (Jun 21, 2012)

dd61999 said:


> phones and flashlight apps are very bright now and the runtimes are fantastic. Do we still need to edc a flashlight?
> 
> Sure its not 100 lumens bright, but bright enough for most tasks



I don't think so. the phone is better to be used for a phone purpose, if you use it for a light purpose, you waste your batteries and in case you need the phone for emergency then you are doomed. So I would feel safer to have a light around, at least the light can be turned on suddenly with a click and not have to press and swipe and press and press.. right? We need the light to be able to draw and turn on as fast as possible, like gun in a holster for conceal carry, HAHA!


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## eh4 (Jun 21, 2012)

All the apps and browsing etc is a serious problem with "Smart Phones" IMO someone (Motorola?) needs to come out with a line of phones where there is a telephony/text Only battery along with the bigger "Smart Phone" battery, I guess there would have to be a piggy backed operating system as well, kind of like higher brain functions piggy backed on top of brain stem functions... anyhow, you all know what I mean, Angry Birds (or a damn flashlight app) should NEVER prevent a critical phone call or text from getting through due to a squandered battery.

BTW, I'd make it a one way street, a marathon phone call would be able to draw additional power from the "Smart Phone" battery if need be as well.


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## Overclocker (Jun 21, 2012)

eh4 said:


> All the apps and browsing etc is a serious problem with "Smart Phones" IMO someone (Motorola?) needs to come out with a line of phones where there is a telephony/text Only battery along with the bigger "Smart Phone" battery, I guess there would have to be a piggy backed operating system as well, kind of like higher brain functions piggy backed on top of brain stem functions... anyhow, you all know what I mean, Angry Birds (or a damn flashlight app) should NEVER prevent a critical phone call or text from getting through due to a squandered battery.
> 
> BTW, I'd make it a one way street, a marathon phone call would be able to draw additional power from the "Smart Phone" battery if need be as well.




it's called "knowing when to stop playing games" LOL

a smart phone and a dumb user is a terrible combination IMHO


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## FrozenSpectre (Jun 21, 2012)

As others have suggested, for me no a mobile phone camera light/screen wouldn't replace my EDC light. Sure if I do ever find myself without my EDC something is better than nothing. Posts prior to mine have suggested why an EDC is better than a mobile phone light so I wont regurgitate. For now, and for me personally I will still carry my EDC. Worse case, I have 2 forms of illumination, worst case, you replace the EDC with mobile only and the phone is damaged or battery is flat, you are without totally.

Thanks.


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## tsask (Jun 21, 2012)

To the "unenlightened" an LED on phone is VERY helpful. (better than holding a lit match etc) With the advancement of LED technology there is NO REASON to EVER be without a light at all times. This helps" the uninformed' to have light when needed most.


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## 1095guy (Jun 21, 2012)

tsask said:


> To the "unenlightened" an LED on phone is VERY helpful. (better than holding a lit match etc) With the advancement of LED technology there is NO REASON to EVER be without a light at all times. This helps" the uninformed' to have light when needed most.



IMO this is why i think phone lights will increase the use of flashlight edc. my buds and i were exploring an abandoned warehouse and my firends phone was brighter than both mine and the other guys lights, COMBINED! at that point i decided to take the plunge because if this thing is lighting up the room, what will a purpose-built device do? plus i'll be damned if im going to let an iphone best me, im supposed to be the gear head of the group. all joking aside, these smartphonelightmapinternets' are bright enough to put most cheapo lights to shame which can convince (at least 2 guys now) to go and get a real light.


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## Cataract (Jun 21, 2012)

I'm wondering if the lighter app can help once the flashlight app ran out of juice...


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## RiderOnTheStorm (Jun 21, 2012)

I can't imagine ever replacing my flashlight with a mobile phone. You may not want to waste your battery on flashlight duties that you could be using to make an emergency call. You tend to leave you cell phone on all day, and by the time night rolls around your batteries maybe low or even dead. I don't think this would be a wise choice.


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## Richub (Jun 24, 2012)

My phone will never replace my Fenix E05 which lives in my front jeans pocket. Just compare the size of a Samsung Galaxy Plus to a Fenix E05, and you get my point. 

For non-flashaholics, those flashlight apps prove to be pretty useful as keyhole finders or to find dropped items in a dark alleyway. I see this quite a lot around me, especially in the wintertime.

So in my opinion these flashlight apps are here to stay, lighting things up for non-flashaholics. But IMHO they can never replace a real flashlight.


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## peterkin101 (Jun 25, 2012)

I have an HTC Sensation XE which I love as a Smartphone.

Whilst it does have a 'Flashlight App' there is NO WAY AT ALL would I ever use it in that capacity unless confronted with an extreme emergency.

Benefits are marginal and difficulties are numerous:

1) Beam is too dim for anything useful...

2) Clumsy operating system-have to use the touch screen to work it.

3) and finally...It is CERTAINLY bright enough to attract the attention of a would-be mugger, drunken idiots or other undesirables.

Phones should be visible only when absolutely necessary and NEVER otherwise.


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## peterkin101 (Jun 25, 2012)

tsask said:


> To the "unenlightened" an LED on phone is VERY helpful. (better than holding a lit match etc) With the advancement of LED technology there is NO REASON to EVER be without a light at all times. This helps" the uninformed' to have light when needed most.



And it also sets them up for mugging!


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## fyrstormer (Jun 25, 2012)

peterkin101 said:


> And it also sets them up for mugging!


Any mugger worth their salt isn't going to give a passerby enough time to pull out their flashlight. It'll be a brick to the back of the head and that'll be it. We're not talking about "gentlemen thieves" here.


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## nbp (Jun 25, 2012)

I think he means that waving your fancy phone around more than you need to invites phone thieves to try to take it from you.


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## heck333 (Jun 25, 2012)

While the flashlight app on my iPhone is kind of nice to have, its not very comfortable to hold the phone in my mouth while needing to light up 2-handed work in the dark.

Greg


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## Wiggle (Jun 26, 2012)

To people questioning the usefulness of some of these flashlight apps:

My new Preon P0 (which I think most people would agree is a quite useful close range flood light), on high has almost the exact same profile and output as my Bold 9780 flashlight app. The Bold is actually a smidge brighter and with warmer colour temp. A very useful beam. I'd be happy to provide a comparison beamshot.


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## ev13wt (Jun 27, 2012)

I don't have a smart phone, heck, it doesn't even have a touch screen. It has buttons. I will use it going to bed because its shine is like 0.001 lumens. Perfect!

I turn it off at night and have a real cr123 light next to the bed.

Its not, and never will be a replacement, but it sure has its uses!


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## beerwax (Jun 27, 2012)

i really like to carry a flashlight. always have. i will only carry a phone when i have to. 

i can spend hours looking at flashlight porn. i can spend plenty on lights. i keep them well even after they have died. a phone has none of this magic.


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## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2012)

Divine_Madcat said:


> if i find myself in an emergency, the last thing I want to be doing is burning the battery on my one lifeline to the outside world...



This would be my number one reason for NOT opting for an app instead of a real IPX8 rated flashlight...


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## TMedina (Oct 24, 2012)

TEEJ said:


> Story trimmed for space.



And congrats to your son for staying calm, collected, and rising to the occasion. We should all be so lucky to perform that well.


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## TMedina (Oct 24, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> The telecom companies want us to use our phones for everything. I refuse. I will carry a flashlight even if my phone were somehow brighter and longer-running, because using one device for too many purposes is putting my eggs in one basket. Better hope the basket never slips and falls.



This is it in a nutshell. Multi-function devices are fantastic, until the one device fails and takes all your functions with it. 

Having a flashlight app as a last ditch emergency isn't a bad thing - I will admit to having used the light from my cellphone's screen to find something by my bed. (Since my phone was also my alarm clock at the time, I knew where to find it, even with my eyes closed or in complete darkness).

But for all the reasons listed above, plus Fyrstormer's observation about all the eggs in a basket, people need a dedicated flashlight. And, citing a worst case example, trying to use a cellphone to get through the smoke in the Towers on 9/11 would have been a complete fail.


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## bluemax_1 (Oct 24, 2012)

I like the fact that something I always have with me when I leave the house (unless my silly *** forgets it) has a usable backup light function. The flashlight app on the phone replace a dedicated EDC? No way. My phone is primarily a connectivity tool. I use it primarily as a phone (for voice or text) and to surf the web (it's great to be able to double check prices on the fly while shopping for stuff and even occasionally checking reviews of different, similar appearing options). I don't ever play games on my phone, and in an emergency, I would NOT want to drain the battery to use the phone as a flashlight.

The flashlight on the phone is the backup to the backup of my backup to the backup for my primary EDC. My current EDC is a Quark QPA-G2 on a 14500. I use my EDC EVERY single day at work, and even on my days off. It works great because it was purpose built to provide light. I also have a Klarus M10 XPG-R5 (would've gotten a Revo if they were still available) on my keychain, along with a Streamlight Nano and eGear Pico. In my work gear, I also have a TK41, a ZL SC80 and another eGear Pico (yes, I'm definitely a flashaholic AND a firm believer in multiple redundancy).

I can recall the numerous blackouts I've been in before, ranging from years and years ago when cellphones were non-existent (not even the briefcase sized early models) to only a couple of years ago. In the days before cellphones, the only people who really had any light sources on them in a blackout were the smokers and their cigarette lighters. Folks EDC'ing ANY kind of flashlight were far more uncommon than it is today (and it's STILL not common today, but it was even rarer in the days before small LED lights). BTW, a blackout in a mall with no windows or skylights, where you discover that the emergency lights aren't well maintained, is a really dark environment.

The fact that cellphones are SO common these days is a good thing as far as emergency lighting goes. Immediately, upon the most recent blackout, everyone with a cellphone (that had a working battery) pulled theirs out and at least had some light. Even for those whose phones don't have cameras or LED flashes, the light from the screen is enough to get around. The ones with LED flashes produce even more usable light. For the average Joe, who hasn't even considered situations where they might need a light, the fact that their cellphone has one is simple convenience in an emergency. When I pulled out my EDC and the TK40 though, everyone realized that they could get around much more easily with the amount of light a good modern flashlight produces (and of course, everyone needed to borrow mine for some reason or other).

As I said though, in an emergency, I'd rather save the phone's battery for emergency connectivity/contact purposes. It will NEVER replace my EDC(s) simply because phones aren't built in a form factor optimized for use as a flashlight, and I won't ever rely on only one light source. The battery might die, the phone might fail etc. And if I'm going to carry the phone AND a flashlight, the flashlight will be the primary light source. The light on the phone will be a last ditch backup.


Max


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## reppans (Oct 25, 2012)

I'm a cross cannibalization guy. I'd let a flashlight app take the role of my back-up flashlight but not primary flashlight. And conversely, one of the key functions of my flashlight is to be a Eneloop battery container so I can use the battery to charge to my cellphone up... or swap to/from my AM/FM radio.... or to/from my GPS....etc., etc.


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## pyro1son (Oct 26, 2012)

I had a flash light app well before I joined this forum and EDC'd, I can safely say that I have no longer have any need for the app as it will never be able to replace my Klarus Mi X6 Ti. I still have the app but only for back up, being prepared or in case I forget to change the battery!


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## TMedina (Oct 26, 2012)

Given the looming threat of the "Frankenstorm", I suspect we might end up with some practical insights on the topic. :candle:


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## bluemax_1 (Oct 26, 2012)

TMedina said:


> Given the looming threat of the "Frankenstorm", I suspect we might end up with some practical insights on the topic. :candle:


Thanks for that. I had to google 'Frankenstorm' to see what you were talking about. I'll be in Ohio till Tue or Wed. Have added preparations just in case.


Max


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## ericjohn (Oct 29, 2012)

yliu said:


> Although I have an iPhone, I still use my Olight i3.
> 
> It's the same reason why people don't use Swiss army knives in their kitchens.




I keep a Victorinox Recruit (red metal handle) among my kitchen gadgets. The reason for me doing so is because all of my can openers break after just a few months. I decided to stop buying them and just use the can opener implement on my SAK.


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## bluemax_1 (Oct 29, 2012)

ericjohn said:


> I keep a Victorinox Recruit (red metal handle) among my kitchen gadgets. The reason for me doing so is because all of my can openers break after just a few months. I decided to stop buying them and just use the can opener implement on my SAK.


What kind of can openers have you had (or what have you been doing with them)?

My parents had the same can openers for decades. I bought one of those safety can openers (the kind that don't produce sharp edges, they split the seam on the can's top, which means you can also use the top as a lid for any unused portion of the can contents). Been using the same one for over a decade and it still works great. Oh, and for the preppers, it also turns cans into convenient pots. The SAK opener is reliable though, and works even on weird cans.


Max


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## Pmbspyder (Oct 29, 2012)

my iphone light isn't even close to being useful for more than navigating to the bathroom in the middle of the night...


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## ericjohn (Oct 30, 2012)

bluemax_1 said:


> What kind of can openers have you had (or what have you been doing with them)?
> 
> My parents had the same can openers for decades. I bought one of those safety can openers (the kind that don't produce sharp edges, they split the seam on the can's top, which means you can also use the top as a lid for any unused portion of the can contents). Been using the same one for over a decade and it still works great. Oh, and for the preppers, it also turns cans into convenient pots. The SAK opener is reliable though, and works even on weird cans.
> 
> ...



Mostly gas station, truck stop and dollar store can openers. They only last a few weeks. I don't buy any electric ones because of the potential for electrical outages. I know they don't make can openers like they used to. I have three SAKs and their can opener implements never failed me. I wish I could get one of those old school manual can openers. I look on ebay, but never found one for a fair price.


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## LEDninja (Oct 30, 2012)

You are in New York or New Jersey right now after hurricane Sandy has passed.
Your whole town has lost power. You do not know when you can recharge your cell phone.

Would you preserve your cell phone battery for emergency calls?
Or drain the battery using it as a flashlight?

Get that EDC. One less thing to worry about. Even non-flashaholics know enough to empty a store's flashlight aisle before a major storm!

I saw this story earlier:
New Yorkers Swarm The Electrical Outlets At The Pharmacy.
Manhattanites are making a mass exodus northward, looking for power outlets and food.
Image of people swarming the Duane Reede grocery store, keeping their cell phones juiced:
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-yorkers-swarm-the-electrical-outlets-at-the-pharmacy-2012-10


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## carling (Nov 1, 2012)

One word: never.

It doesn't hurt having it as an option though.


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## f22shift (Nov 10, 2012)

I wish that there was two modes for the camera flash. A low low that wouldn't drain the battery as fast. Like someone said. As a backup of a backup backup backup. Lol


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## RGB_LED (Nov 10, 2012)

I suppose any light in a pinch would be useful but... I recall several situations: 

1. Trying to trace network cables in a very tight space: my colleague pulled out his iPhone and I pulled out a AAA Maratac. The Maratac was easier to maneuver inside an enclosed space than the iPhone.
2. Friend dropped her ring on wet pavement in a parking lot at night, she pulled out an iPhone, turned on the light - it was fairly bright but very floody and pretty useless beyond a foot or so. I pulled out a JB RRT-0, turned it on and it completely overwhelmed the iPhone light and illuminated everything on the ground in the general area. We ended up finding the ring very quickly.

So, IMO, any light is better than none but a dedicated flashlight is better than a phone trying to be a light. I will continue to EDC my lights.


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## powernoodle (Nov 11, 2012)

The good thing about smartphone lights is that _other people_ can use _their_ smartphones as their primary lights during an emergency, which means they won't be trying to borrow _my_ light.


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## eh4 (Nov 11, 2012)

Back before smart phones I had a cheap prepay Nokia phone with a really nice dedicated flashlight function. The phone had three white 5mm leds at the top side of the phone so it illuminated sideways if you set it down, leds were covered with a plastic lens and the light function had it's own button. I think it worked when the phone was turned off too if memory serves. Thing is that the phone battery would last on standby for well over a week and I never recall having three light show any signs of running the battery down, gave off nearly as much light as a pak-lite's high setting. That phone was great for what it was, dropped it hundreds of times, opened it up and blew the dust out a couple times a year.


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## Yossarian14 (Nov 12, 2012)

My first phone that had a flashlight on it was a Sony Erricson probably 6 years ago, well before it became a standard occurence. Well I kept that for a few years, I moved up to a smartphone, which did not have a flash for the camera. It was so strange not having light on me at started carrying a mini on my keychain. Now I'm about to purchase the Nexus 4 with the flash and cant wait to carry around nothing but my phone, wallet, and a single key.


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## TMedina (Nov 14, 2012)

Ok, I just had to post this one:

Burglar using Smartphone-flashlight accidentally films his crime.


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## eternity (Nov 14, 2012)

+1 

The flashlight app is for when you have nothing else. I much rather save my phone battery for phone calls and use a dedicated light. I didn't have to wait to recharge my phone as often because of this. 



LEDninja said:


> You are in New York or New Jersey right now after hurricane Sandy has passed.
> Your whole town has lost power. You do not know when you can recharge your cell phone.
> 
> Would you preserve your cell phone battery for emergency calls?
> ...


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## TEEJ (Nov 14, 2012)

I have 4 flashlight apps on my phone. I don't really use them except to fool around. I can't help it, it had FLASHLIGHT in the app title...it was like a moth to a flame...

:candle:


Some do allow you to reduce/adjust the brightness, and some have strobes and beacon functions, etc.


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## Onthelightside (Nov 14, 2012)

I certainly don't think a phone is a replacement for a quality EDC light but I know many people that have told me "I can just use my phone" and any attempt to show the short comings are responded with "I don't care its good enough". I say suit yourself.


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## david57strat (Nov 14, 2012)

Onthelightside said:


> I certainly don't think a phone is a replacement for a quality EDC light but I know many people that have told me "I can just use my phone" and any attempt to show the short comings are responded with "I don't care its good enough". I say suit yourself.



Agreed. Some people don't recognize quality even if it's staring them in the face. They'd rather settle. 

There's been a lot of discussion about this topic, on EDC Forums, of which I am also a member - only the topic there was _Cell Phones as Your Primary Flashlight,_ for which I posted:

==

I EDC numerous lights, so it's hard to imagine me ever needing (or wanting) to resort to using the LED flash on my iPhone, as even a makeshift flashlight, for several reasons - only one of which is the battery drainage (iPhones aren't really famous for having super-long-lasting batteries - but I do carry either a Duracell Powerhouse Lithium Ion battery, and/or a SPARQ 2.0 around, I'm going to be out for a while, and unable to get to any kind of charger/computer/car adapter/other power source to charge the phone, since the SPARQ will easily provide at least three full phone charges for my iPhone 4, before _it needs charging).

When I want, or need to light something up, I don't want to be hunting around for the phone, then, the app. I would rather just pull my primary light from my belt and turn it on instantly, with a one button adjustment for the output needed for any given situation.

Then, there is the severe lack of quality light produced by the LED "light" on the phone, itself. While I admit I've seen some actually fairly decent light come out of some friends' smartphones, I was never too pleased with mine. When I chose to install a nice alarm clock app on the phone (mainlly for when I traveled and wanted a decent alarm clock, without having to actually carry a physical one with me), that app came with a flashlight feature, which I saw as a nice gimmick, but not a serious feature I would be willing to count on, even in an emergency. I'm not crazy about this LED lamp for any kind of flash photography, either, but it's better than nothing. The phone camera is fairly nice - as far as phone cameras go - but that's another topic altogether.

I've got so many keys on my keychain, carrying a light on that would be very impractical, no matter how small the light may be - I cannot imagine something that small producing any kind of serious light, either (assuming I went with a bigger keychain light) - without interfering with my keys.

A lot of the many features built into what is now my first smart phone, were really impressive to me; but the built-in flash/flashlight features weren't among them. No offense intended for those who swear by the built-in phone lights and are pleased with what you're getting out of them, and if they suit your needs. For my own purposes, I'd prefer to just stick with dedicated flashlights to do whatever lighting job arises - just as I would rather carry a toolbox with really high quality, dedicated tools (If I'm going to any kind of repair job for a friend, or otherwise), rather than just counting on my SwissChamp Plus to do it all. I understand it's a little less convenient; but sometimes, you just need "the real thing" (the full-sized, dedicated tool) to get the job done. 

===


_I just took some pictures to illustrate my point. If you wanted to see something - even something only five or ten feet in front of you, in really good detail, and you were also carrying an EDC light (or maybe - more than one lol):


_




_
Would you rather see this (Lit with the LED lamp on an iPhone 4):



_



_
or this (Lit with a Led Lenser P7.....I know...a very controversial brand, here in CPF. I'm also carrying Olight, Maglite, Fenix and EagleTac lights - all of them, very small -particularly the Fenix e15..tiny thing - and they all blow the iPhone's LED out of the water, in all aspects)?

If anybody's interested, both of these pictures were taken with a Canon SX1-IS on full manual, ISO 100, .5 second exposure.


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## david57strat (Nov 14, 2012)

nbp said:


> Till you drop it and it shatters.
> 
> Or you run out of juice in the woods and have no way to replace the cell quickly and easily.
> 
> ...




I agree with every point made here, and many that weren't mentioned.


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## david57strat (Nov 14, 2012)

powernoodle said:


> The good thing about smartphone lights is that _other people_ can use _their_ smartphones as their primary lights during an emergency, which means they won't be trying to borrow _my_ light.



Point very well-made. Agreed!


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## idleprocess (Nov 14, 2012)

Really not understanding the dramatic *either/or* I see so many presenting.

Using a smartphone's _screen_ as a flashlight is silly and inefficient. Thankfully most smartphones with cameras have LED flashes that can be used as flashlights with included / downloadable software - many of which will switch on the LED's and leave them running without the application being in the forefront and the screen on.

No real downside to using my phone as a supplementary EDC light:

Phone is always on my person
LED flash produces a nice flood of fairly neutral light
I generally end the day with at least 50% battery ... and I have a charged spare on me anyway
Phone is recharged daily
Flashlight can be activated via widget - can use other apps or shut the screen off and LED's will remain on (LED flash uses a tiny fraction of the juice that the screen does)
Phone is in a case, so it has some drop protection
Phone even has a kickstand to point it in a general direction on a flat surface

I find myself using it all the time for short-distance task work, like navigating indoors, finding things, quick tasks under desks (looking for things), etc. Can't say I've used it for more than a few minutes at a time, but the flood of light beats the distinct beam of every keychain light I've had for most task work.

For anything long-range, outdoors, longer duration, or likely to see some abuse I can pull out the Fenix L0D on my keychain or some other flashlight with better throw, more lumens, and better handling.


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## TMedina (Nov 14, 2012)

The either/or scenario exists because that was the central idea behind the OP's...OP.


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## david57strat (Nov 15, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> Really not understanding the dramatic *either/or* I see so many presenting.
> 
> Using a smartphone's _screen_ as a flashlight is silly and inefficient. Thankfully most smartphones with cameras have LED flashes that can be used as flashlights with included / downloadable software - many of which will switch on the LED's and leave them running without the application being in the forefront and the screen on.
> 
> ...



If your smartphone's LED does the job for you, that's great. You don't need anything more. But remember - this is a forum that specializes in lighting instruments; be it, flashlights, headlamps - both store-bought, and custom, and everything related to that (power sources, driver variations, etc.). What better place to indulge in wants/needs, in the lighting realm, as far as it applies to us? Of course, we're all going to have different opinions - and no opinion is necessarily right, or wrong. 

The "dramatic" (no offense taken, or intended towards others) is to illustrate a point. Some are longer-winded than others (I'm the first to admit that); but it's all good. Some say nearly nothing; so it all balances out, in the end. The whole point of a forum is to encourage open dialogue, for the edification of all who parttake. I love hearing everyone's varying opinions on what works, and what doesn't work for them - as much as I enjoy learning about products/ideas from others with more, or varying experiences than I. I learn something new, every day, on this, and other forums. That's why I, and so many others, have joined.

Just out of curiosity - what kind of smartphone/case with kickstand are you using? It's obviously not an iPhone lol, if you have a spare battery charged up and ready to swap out. 

Like I said, there are all sorts of different LEDS on different phones, and some work a lot more effectively than others. I am always interested in hearing what works for others, even if those same things don't necessarily work for me. Hopefully, others feel the same way, and don't mind people like us "geeking out" and thoroughly voicing a strong opinion about something, as long as it's done respectfully, with the understanding that the other person's opnions should be heard and validated, as well.


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## idleprocess (Nov 15, 2012)

david57strat said:


> If your smartphone's LED does the job for you, that's great.


As I mentioned previously, I carry both. Phone is generally better indoors or for tasks of short duration, Fenix L0D on the keychain for outdoor or long-duration tasks.



> But remember - this is a forum that specializes in lighting instruments


I am _quite_ aware of this.



> The "dramatic" (no offense taken, or intended towards others) is to illustrate a point.


To the point that the OP drove at - choosing between a purpose-built tool verses a multi-tool that performs the same task as distant secondary function - the discussion is largely valid. But since - _short of specific circumstances_ - few must make the exclusive choice of EDC flashlight vs smartphone, it's a false dilemma. Rarely is a person limited by law, work regulations, carrying capacity, or honor to only carry one or the other.

In the case of a smartphone, the additional functionality comes without any significant premium.

The "drama" is the weird geek pride, paranoia, and denial of legitimate functionality.



> Just out of curiosity - what kind of smartphone/case with kickstand are you using? It's obviously not an iPhone lol, if you have a spare battery charged up and ready to swap out.


HTC Thunderbolt. Integrated kickstands are one of HTC's signature design features.

For the case, I use a multi-layered Seidio Convert that can be a slim(ish) case for pocket use, or a 3-ply ruggedized case for belt stowage. In "ruggedized" mode it's the antithesis of thin, but I've got larger than average hands so it's no hindrance. Numerous other manufacturers offer similar cases for most makes and models of phone.

Thanks to the proliferation of USB charging on most newer phones, inexpensive external batteries can be had to extend runtime or revive a dead phone. I bought one from Amazon for about $25 that can recharge my phone twice - as fast as the AC charger that came with the phone.


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## david57strat (Nov 16, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> As I mentioned previously, I carry both. Phone is generally better indoors or for tasks of short duration, Fenix L0D on the keychain for outdoor or long-duration tasks.


Your HTC Thunderbolt produces a lot more light than my iPhone 4 would - so I can understand the usefulness of that built-in light, compared to mine; but I’m basing your choice on the assumptions that a)the only other light you're EDCing is that Fenix LOD (which, I believe is a single AAA battery light, rated at 75 lumens…?), b)the inconvenience of having to detach it from your keys to use it for extended periods, is a turn-off for you, c) you're using primary (alkaline or lithium) batteries in the light (rather than NiMh/Eneloops), and d)the beam pattern on your Fenix light isn't wide enough for your general purpose needs (navigating room to room, up-close work, etc.), in which case, I completely understand opting for the phone, rather than the dedicated flashlight. I'm speaking partially out of ignorance (rather than practical hands-on experience), because I don't own an LOD. I do own a Fenix e15, but it's the light I use the least, because it won't run on rechargeable batteries; but in a tight spot (like looking inside the sound hole of a guitar, for inspection/repairs, for instance, then the light is perfect. With this light, I don't have to remove the strings to take a look around, and I can get several hours of its medium (75 lumen) output, without worrying about changing the battery. It could actually qualify as a keychain light, because of its tiny size, but I prefer to holster it next to a Olight M20-X (within the spare pocket on the holster. The other pocket holds a spare 18650 battery – it’s perfect. I love that holster).

The question, for me remains (and not in a condescending way, but strictly to understand your reasoning): "better", in what sense(s) of the word? Once again – if you like it better (for whatever the reason), then it’s your personal choice, and that’s fine. The reason I posted pictures was to give a real-world visual comparison between the beam patterns, the output, and the clarity differences between the two light sources (in this case, iPhone 4 vs. P7, set to flood). The picture was taken from about five feet away. 

This would have to be before smart phones existed; but I almost liken this topic to a person’s choice between using a Thomas Guide, or a AAA fold-up map. For you younger CPFers, you’ll probably have no idea what I’m talking about – and you probably don’t remember vinyl records either lol. It’s okay. Back in the days when only paper maps existed, a lot of people used both, the Thomas Guide, and the fold-up map; but many swore by, either one, or the other. The TG is more convenient, in the sense that more information is packed in a book; but when you’re navigating, it’s a pain to be constantly flipping pages every few miles, when you can simply open up the AAA map and get a birds-eye view of the immediate area (for several miles around), with the option of folding down the map to show only the very immediate area in which you’re driving. I’m a AAA map person – or….was. It’s mostly GPS, now – an add-on app, of course. See? There are some apps I like to use, on this phone. The flashlight just isn’t one of them.

Because of the vast amount of light choices most CPFers have readily at their disposal, since they often EDC multiple lights, the phone light is often considered a very last ditch effort, to provide light, when it’s needed. I’m not saying the phone light is useless, or has no purpose. I am saying that – at least for me – it is the least desirable (in terms of everything, from output, to beam pattern, to battery usage, and ruggedness), as compared to the dedicated light – any dedicated light that I’m carrying, anyway. Even if you factored out the battery run time and the ruggedness, there is still the quality of light that is produced, and I’m very picky about that, as are many others (Here in this forum, of all places. I’m sure most forum members understand that completely); so the answer to the very basic question posed in the topic’s title is no; there is no way on Earth I would feel that my phone light can ever replace an EDC light, for any reason, at any time, or do away with my need/desire to carry an EDC light (or, more than one), just because my phone has a built-in LED. 

When I hold a flashlight, I want to hold a flashlight; not a light with keys; not a phone with a light built into it; but a flashlight. I guess I’m kind of dyed-in-the-wool, old-school, in that way. Now, if some time down the road, they manufacture a phone which has a far more powerful, built-in LED light, with far longer run times, and more beam/output options, then who knows? I may actually consider a cell phone light as a primary light for EDC; but I don’t see that happening in the foreseeable future. Manufacturers are trying to make their phones smaller, not bigger; and the thought of adding to the bulk of a phone, by incorporating a more powerful/flexible/focusable light in it – very unlikely.



idleprocess said:


> To the point that the OP drove at - choosing between a purpose-built tool verses a multi-tool that performs the same task as distant secondary function - the discussion is largely valid. But since - short of specific circumstances - few must make the exclusive choice of EDC flashlight vs smartphone, it's a false dilemma. Rarely is a person limited by law, work regulations, carrying capacity, or honor to only carry one or the other.


I don’t really view any…”dilemma” in choosing between one light, or another. For me, it’s a matter of being prepared, and always having multiple options at my disposal – which means carrying multiple lights. Some people view this as silly, unnecessary – maybe even extravagant, or eccentric. I could care less if other people don’t approve of it. When light is needed (by me), in a power outage, or most any other circumstances, it’s always there, for me. If I have to throw a beam a hundred yards out, or just light up a keyhole, a map, a pathway....or whatever it is - I choose whatever light works best to suit my specific needs (There is no one light that does it all), without having to depend on someone else to provide it, and without having to hunt down another light. It’s right there, within arm’s reach – always. The only exception I can think of would be if I have to wear a suit, in which case, I would choose the D25LC2, which would easily fit in my blazer pocket, and I would carry the rest in a separate bag, to be left in the car, or wherever was convenient. Fortunately, I almost never find myself needing to wear formal clothes of any kind, and I practically live in cargo shorts, which are perfectly suited for carry of multiple EDC items.

The iPhone light is there….but I’d have to have all five EDC flashlights fail, before I’d consider using the phone light. That's very unlikely.

…..”honor….”.? I’m not sure how that plays into any of this. I have to assume, you were being facetious…?



idleprocess said:


> In the case of a smart phone, the additional functionality comes without any significant premium.


Agreed, but only to very limited extent. Everyone's mileage varies, of course.



idleprocess said:


> The "drama" is the weird geek pride, paranoia, and denial of legitimate functionality.


One person’s “weird” or “paranoia” is another person’s heightened preparedness. There’s no denying that the phone light has (extremely limited) functional use; however, there are too many reasons, as many have mentioned, to opt for the dedicated light (particularly if they’re already carrying other lights that are just as easily reachable), over the phone light; but that doesn’t mean I’m going to smash the phone LED to bits, or deny that it exists. I just choose the stand-alone light. I’ve specifically stated what my reasons for the preference are, and there were many, to be sure. I’m curious what yours are; but I seem to recall, you, or someone mentioning that the floodier beam of the phone light is more useful than their narrower keychain light’s beam. You did mention that it’s already on your person, and that it gets charged daily. Were there any other reasons you prefer the use of the phone light, over a dedicated EDC light?

For another example, if I’m going to be writing (ideas, lists, or whatever), by hand, using a disposable (regular ol’ #2) pencil, I would prefer to have and use a separate eraser stick, to fix my errors/make revisions, rather than use the cheap, messy eraser built into the pencil, simply because the eraser stick accomplishes this a lot more cleanly (with no eraser residue or other marks on the paper, whatsoever) than the built-in eraser, and really doesn’t require a lot more weight (or carry space), to do it. But then, if I’m out, I’d rather carry one or two decent mechanical pencils, rather than a dozen disposal pencils and a sharpener. I also carry a pen all the time, even though my SAK Champion Plus has a little tiny built-in fine point pen in one of its slots. Better than nothing, if my pen was lost, or were to fail – something that rarely happens.

All of these viewpoints we all share are valid, and are, of course, greatly biased, based on whether the person sharing is a “go-for-broke” EDCer, or a minimalist. Clearly, I am not a minimalist; not by a long shot. I understand, not being a minimalist, means I have to carry more bulk on my person; spend more money out of my pocket, and take slightly longer, getting ready in the morning, to carry all that I like to carry; and maybe even put up with a little ridicule from people who don’t get it (Of course, these people are always the first to reach out to someone who is prepared, in the event of emergency, or just an instance, when they’re caught without the proper tools to do the job. 

Does this remind you of people who absolutely refuse to wear a watch, but are asking you, every five minutes – “what time is it”?. Oddly, I’m okay with all of that, because I like options, and that’s why there is a lot of redundancy built into my EDC choices. Some of you are minimalists. Neither choice is necessarily right, or wrong. We just think differently – and that is a good thing.



idleprocess said:


> HTC Thunderbolt. Integrated kickstands are one of HTC's signature design features.


The Thunderbolt seems like a very nice phone. My sister and brother-in-law both carry HTC phones, and for the most part, they love them.



idleprocess said:


> For the case, I use a multi-layered Seidio Convert that can be a slim(ish) case for pocket use, or a 3-ply ruggedized case for belt stowage. In "ruggedized" mode it's the antithesis of thin, but I've got larger than average hands so it's no hindrance. Numerous other manufacturers offer similar cases for most makes and models of phone.


I checked out your link, and read up on this case. Seems to be a very nice case – built to Military specs, no less. I don’t believe in pocketing a phone; but I know as many who can’t stand the idea of holstering one, either; so it’s six of one/half dozen of the other. But then, it’s matter of convenience again. I don’t want to dig around for my phone, when it rings. I want to pull it instantly, out of a proper holster, and answer it on the first ring. Of course, opinions vary. Some don’t like the aesthetic of a phone on a holster, rather than tucked away in a pocket, a purse, or wherever. I could care less.

I’ve been using an Otterbox Impact Series case (a silicon skin that covers all but the face of the phone. It came with a stick-on plastic screen protector too; but I don’t like using plastic covers over my phone’s glass, and the glass is highly scratch-resistant, so there’s really no need for it). It just doesn’t feel the same, particularly when inputting information on the virtual keyboard. 

The phone rests in a Nite Ize horizontal-carry nylon case (with Velcro closure), which will fit the Otterbox skin fairly snugly. The protection doesn’t compare to a multi-layered system, like you have; but I don’t tend to expose my phone to very harsh environments. I thought about investing in the Defender series case, but I see there are other very heavy-duty cases around that offer up great functionality for the phone, as well – such as yours. During the past year, the phone has been dropped numerous times, but has survived well in this case, and there isn’t a mark on the phone. The case, itself, has seen better days, but that’s what the case is for. I’m grateful for that. True, it’s not as slick-looking, in the hand, but, like you, I actually prefer the more robust feel of the protected case (It’s far less slippery/microscopic-feeling), than just in my hand. I feel the same way about cameras. I cannot stand little tiny cameras that have no weight to them. I don’t care how great a picture they take. They just don’t feel right, in my hands; so I prefer the “klunky”, but decent quality dedicated digital camera, and the manual options afforded by the camera, over the iPhone. Admittedly, I don’t always carry one with me, so the iPhone works well, when nothing else is available – but the built-in flash leaves a lot to be desired, so I tend not to use it for night photography.



idleprocess said:


> Thanks to the proliferation of USB charging on most newer phones, inexpensive external batteries can be had to extend runtime or revive a dead phone. I bought one from Amazon for about $25 that can recharge my phone twice - as fast as the AC charger that came with the phone.


Agreed. Had it not been for that, I’d never have purchased an iPhone. It just doesn’t give me enough battery power to last the day, without significant drainage on the battery. 

With the external batteries, I never have to worry about whether or not I can get to a car outlet, or a computer (let alone, a wall charger). I’ve got a combination of enough batteries to give me just under a week of normal use of the phone, without having to recharge (although I generally carry only a Duracell Powerhouse (and cables), unless I’m know I’m going to be out for an extended period of time, or I’m going to be traveling. Again – some of you may see this as overkill; others, simply another way of being well-prepared/not being caught without power. That STILL all-too-overly-used cliché, in the movies, of the protagonist, not being able to use his or her phone, at a crucial moment, to make a potentially life-saving phone call, because of a dead battery, is ridiculous, in this day and age. It’s inconceivable, to me. “No Signal” is more believable – maybe.

Again, this can all be potentially seen as a prideful thing. It’s not. The reason I take pictures, specify brand names/models, give so much detail (other than the fact that I really love to write), etc. is because many people ask specifically, “what are you using for (enter whatever the topic, here)? I do this too. What tool are you specifically using for this job, and how, specifically, does it suit your needs? Most people know, precisely, what it is they like about the tools they use, and are more than happy to share it, in great detail – pictures included, when possible. I suppose is may seem somewhat off-topic, but in the end, it all ties into the thread, in one way, or another – even if indirectly.


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## idleprocess (Nov 17, 2012)

david57strat said:


> Your HTC Thunderbolt produces a lot more light than my iPhone 4 would - so I can understand the usefulness of that built-in light, compared to mine; but I’m basing your choice on the assumptions that a)the only other light you're EDCing is that Fenix LOD (which, I believe is a single AAA battery light, rated at 75 lumens…?), b)the inconvenience of having to detach it from your keys to use it for extended periods, is a turn-off for you, c) you're using primary (alkaline or lithium) batteries in the light (rather than NiMh/Eneloops), and d)the beam pattern on your Fenix light isn't wide enough for your general purpose needs (navigating room to room, up-close work, etc.), in which case, I completely understand opting for the phone, rather than the dedicated flashlight. I'm speaking partially out of ignorance (rather than practical hands-on experience), because I don't own an LOD. I do own a Fenix e15, but it's the light I use the least, because it won't run on rechargeable batteries; but in a tight spot (like looking inside the sound hole of a guitar, for inspection/repairs, for instance, then the light is perfect. With this light, I don't have to remove the strings to take a look around, and I can get several hours of its medium (75 lumen) output, without worrying about changing the battery. It could actually qualify as a keychain light, because of its tiny size, but I prefer to holster it next to a Olight M20-X (within the spare pocket on the holster. The other pocket holds a spare 18650 battery – it’s perfect. I love that holster).


The L0D produces a fairly narrow spot for something with a cross-section close to that of a dime. This is great when outdoors, you have a white ceiling to bounce the light off of, or you need to spotlight something. It runs on generic "hybrid" NiMH's without complaint. The included clip is easy on-off the keychain. 

The L0D is the only flashlight I EDC on my person other than the phone (I do carry a backpack for school with a Fenix L1D stashed inside). I live in the city and work in an office. I almost never really and truly *need* a flashlight, although it's a useful thing to have and makes life a good deal more convenient.

The phone would handle almost all of the routine situations where I would use a flashlight. The L0D is - relative to its contemporaries - a veritable screamer that still outshines almost anything else of its size that the average person will routinely encounter.



> The question, for me remains (and not in a condescending way, but strictly to understand your reasoning): "better", in what sense(s) of the word? Once again – if you like it better (for whatever the reason), then it’s your personal choice, and that’s fine. The reason I posted pictures was to give a real-world visual comparison between the beam patterns, the output, and the clarity differences between the two light sources (in this case, iPhone 4 vs. P7, set to flood). The picture was taken from about five feet away.


Phone is generally better indoors, for short tasks. Its useful range for navigation is about 20 feet. If one could (briefly) run the LED at the power that it spits out for flash photography, it would probably be useful out to 40+ feet.

It produces a ~60 degree cone of ~4000K light with relatively even distribution. Wouldn't want it to be the sole light source for any routine task for terribly long, but lighting up keyholes, walking up and down stairs, walking through the dark house to retrieve something in the kitchen without flipping on light switches - it excels.



> Because of the vast amount of light choices most CPFers have readily at their disposal, since they often EDC multiple lights, the phone light is often considered a very last ditch effort, to provide light, when it’s needed. I’m not saying the phone light is useless, or has no purpose. I am saying that – at least for me – it is the least desirable (in terms of everything, from output, to beam pattern, to battery usage, and ruggedness), as compared to the dedicated light – any dedicated light that I’m carrying, anyway. Even if you factored out the battery run time and the ruggedness, there is still the quality of light that is produced, and I’m very picky about that, as are many others (Here in this forum, of all places. I’m sure most forum members understand that completely); so the answer to the very basic question posed in the topic’s title is no; there is no way on Earth I would feel that my phone light can ever replace an EDC light, for any reason, at any time, or do away with my need/desire to carry an EDC light (or, more than one), just because my phone has a built-in LED.


The various attributes of the phone in question will dictate its performance and desirability as a flashlight. The LED flash is a supporting function for a secondary function (the camera) - which is steadily improving to the point that flashes might start disappearing in the future. I certainly wouldn't place much weight on a phone's LED flashlight performance when picking one out...

I had a flip phone in years past that had a shoddy LED flash whose main function was allowing the phone to take marginal-to-awful photos in situations where it would otherwise take awful-to-useless photos. There was no flashlight function unless you wanted to take a movie of you stumbling around in the dark - would place that device's utility at about the level of the sample iPhone4 photo you've uploaded.



> When I hold a flashlight, I want to hold a flashlight; not a light with keys; not a phone with a light built into it; but a flashlight. I guess I’m kind of dyed-in-the-wool, old-school, in that way.


I just need the utility of it, and typically not high-performance utility at that. I have also found that people look at you funny in numerous situations when you pull out a flashlight, but are amazed when you use a phone for the same task. 



> I don’t really view any…”dilemma” in choosing between one light, or another. For me, it’s a matter of being prepared, and always having multiple options at my disposal – which means carrying multiple lights. Some people view this as silly, unnecessary – maybe even extravagant, or eccentric. I could care less if other people don’t approve of it.
> [...]
> One person’s “weird” or “paranoia” is another person’s heightened preparedness.


As a former boy scout, I understand preparedness. I have things like jumper cables in the car, emergency cash on my person, several days worth of provisions at home, and a concealed handgun license. I simply have not encountered enough situations where I feel the need for more than the two light sources I have on my person nor do I foresee myself encountering any. If you're a service technician of some sort routinely working in utility spaces, in a first responder-type role, a LEO, a spelunker, work underground, live in the country/deep woods, etc, I can see the real and pressing need for multiple EDC.



> …..”honor….”.? I’m not sure how that plays into any of this. I have to assume, you were being facetious…?


Yes - very.


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## johnny jape (Dec 23, 2012)

for me it is only an option for some moments, finding a keyhole or somtehing similar. for anything else i use my flashlights.


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## Vortus (Dec 23, 2012)

Not for me. Both sit in the same pocket. Just because a screwdriver can be used as a hammer doesn't mean its meant to or even good at it.


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## Ymerejbl (Dec 23, 2012)

It will never replace to much of a pain to unlock your phone open your flashlight app wait couple of secs for delay then watch your battery level burn down. Flashlight is instant on right now. Don't get me wrong I still use my iPhone FL app all the time around the house early am and it's very useful. But I won't rely on it.


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## thelonewolf1124 (Dec 23, 2012)

I've used my screen as a light to find my flashlight and played with a few.flashlight apps (galaxy s2) it was functionally bright but just because my phone also has a coaster app doesn't mean i'm gonna put a cup on it lol


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## smokinbasser (Dec 23, 2012)

There are always going to be "hybrids" like phones that can take stills and some can even shoot videos. But adding an adequate light while retaining the image capture to an already busy phone is going to make for short battery life. I envision "suit Jackets" with solar panels for the exterior of the coat/jacket just to keep our communication devices powered up. Just MO


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## namida (Dec 23, 2012)

Nope, won't bother with my phone even if I have the flashlight app. I'd rather save the juice for what I need the phone for. That is why since the other day I always have 2 torches with me, one on my pocket and another in my backpack.


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## StorminMatt (Dec 26, 2012)

Although some people have mentioned saving battery life (in the sense of not being able to recharge) on a phone for phone calls, there's yet another reason NOT to use a phone to replace an EDC light. And that's battery life in the sense of battery usage reducing the lifetime of the battery. As anyone knows, discharging a rechargeable battery of any kind (lead acid, Nicad, NiMH, Li-Ion, etc) reduces the capacity of that battery by some small amount. As a result, rechargeable batteries can only take SO many charges before they are kaput. But here's the thing: rechargeable batteries that you use in a flashlight are pretty cheap. Whether we are talking about an Eneloop AA, a Tenergy Centura D, or a Panasonic 18650, all these batteries are actually quite cheap. ESPECIALLY when compared to the proprietary Li-Ion batteries commonly used in phones. The iPhone takes this all one step further in that the phone has to be sent in for a costly battery replacement. And using a flashlight app is simply going to guarantee that replacement of your phone's expensive battery is going to happen sooner than it otherwise would. Personally, I would rather just replace a battery for an EDC light.

Of course, I'm not saying that flashlight apps are completely stupid. They can certainly come in handy. Sometimes your EDC battery(s) are not completely charged. Maybe you forgot it at home. Maybe you had to use it for so long that your battery(s) are now dead. Or maybe it fell out of your pocket in your car or in the office. In any of these situations, a flashlight app could be a lifesaver. Or at least just make life ALOT easier. I'm not saying that a phone is a replacement for an EDC light. But for those times when things don't quite work out with your EDC light, a flashlight app is not a bad thing to have.


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## bluemax_1 (Dec 26, 2012)

As I already mentioned, as a die-hard EDC'ing flashaholic and 'Semper Peratus' spouting boy scout, a phone flashlight app will only ever be the backup to the backup of my backup to the primary light.

That said, the interesting thing was the reaction this Christmas to me gifting flashlights. I already have numerous friends who are envious of the Quark QPA-G2's output on a 14500 especially when they see how small it is, but this X'mas, I gave out several Pico and Nano Lights:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003CK8WP0/?tag=cpf0b6-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0011UIPIW/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Yes, I cleared Amazon out of the Pico's that are fulfilled by Amazon (and thus eligible for Prime Free 2-day shipping). Between the Pico and Nano, I would recommend the Pico. Streamlight has had problems with the Nano's head unscrewing itself on it's own (due to contact/rubbing) when kept in your pocket or even hanging off your belt. Lose the head and the light is useless. The design of the Pico is MUCH better in this regard. I had a Nano clipped to the zipper pull on the front of my work bag and I had a couple of times when simply putting the bag in the front passenger wheel well would turn the Nano ON from contact with the seat's edge. Haven't had that happen since I replaced it with a Pico.

Both lights are really small, to the point where they won't be noticed when added to a set of keys with a keychain and more than 2 keys (minimalists with 1 or 2 keys on a plain ring may complain), and the lights are surprisingly bright for something so tiny. I used to carry a Photon as my backup, but I realized it wasn't working for me after finding it dead numerous times (because it's a squeeze light, it can be turned on if something else in my pocket presses against the button, and this has led to drained flat batteries several times). The fact that the Pico is a twisty means it's much less likely to accidentally turn on (in fact, I haven't had the one on my keychain that gets stuffed into the same pocket as my SAK and QPA-G2, or the one clipped to my work bag's zipper pull turn on or dismantle themselves accidentally all this time).

Now all that said, EVERY one of my friends who received one had the same reaction of, "Sweet! Man this thing is TINY, but wow... it's bright for being so small. Thanks!" and they immediately put it on their keychains, even though they all have cellphones.

Folks don't necessarily think about EDC'ing lights, but then again, non-flashaholics aren't necessarily aware of what's available these days. I'd much rather save the battery in my phone for emergency communication in an emergency, or even to use its GPS feature, as opposed to draining it for flashlight duty. In addition, most of the folks with phones and flashlight apps have mentioned the same thing when receiving one of these tiny lights, i.e. "Yeah, half the time, my cellphone's dead or near dead. If the lights go out at the wrong time, the phone wouldn't be much use then. Thanks! This little thing is great! And it's SO small"


Max


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## Burntrubber87 (Dec 29, 2012)

nbp said:


> Till you drop it and it shatters.
> 
> Or you run out of juice in the woods and have no way to replace the cell quickly and easily.
> 
> ...



Casio Commando's like mine don't shatter, i'd be willing to bet its more shatter proof than a maglite lense.

You can carry spare batteries for a phone the same way you do for a flashlight.

Commando is submersible up to a meter, I listen to the radio in the shower everyday. water proof, not resistant.

I can use the flashlight and speakerphone at the same time, i can even turn off the screen during a call.

It's enough to navigate a pitch black shop with low hanging steel lifts and tools and stuff all over the ground.

Where are cell phones prohibited where they will also let you carry a flashlight?

There have been tons of times where I used the LED on my phone just because my phone was in my hand....i'm not saying that i'm going to stop carrying my edc because of my phone. I would advise agains't using it as a EDC but as backup backup to light your way back to your backup..it is a viable source of light.


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## nbp (Dec 30, 2012)

People seem to be forgetting the OP's question is about whether phones STOP the need to carry a light. It's a yes or no question. It's funny how people are going on touting the merits of their cell phone and how they can do so much, and then finish the post by saying there's no way in heck they are replacing their EDC light with their phone. So, the answer is still "no" then, correct? :thinking:


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## Burntrubber87 (Dec 30, 2012)

There was a blanket statement made about phones and I called it out.

Then I answered the OP's question. Not every topic is black and white, yes or no.

I re-read my post it and edited it was a little confusing, it was my attempt at discussing the subject un-biased.


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## thelonewolf1124 (Dec 30, 2012)

nbp said:


> People seem to be forgetting the OP's question is about whether phones STOP the need to carry a light. It's a yes or no question. It's funny how people are going on touting the merits of their cell phone and how they can do so much, and then finish the post by saying there's no way in heck they are replacing their EDC light with their phone. So, the answer is still "no" then, correct? :thinking:



Forums would be a pretty boring place if all you got were yes and no responces...


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## american (Dec 30, 2012)

My phones batt is usually pretty dead and it diesnt have a flash


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## idleprocess (Dec 30, 2012)

Responses on "would you use your phone's LED flashlight for EDC tasks?" seem to run the gamut from _*NEVER*_ to _Cell LED works OK for me, might stop EDC'ing_. I'm a bit surprised how slanted towards "never" the answers are, but this _is_ an enthusiast forum and I guess that most phones have worse flashes than mine and most folks are using more of the battery on a daily basis than I am.


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## xian13 (Jan 5, 2013)

Ok- I have an app on my phone ofr the flashlight function. It's neat. But it's not e replacement for an actual light. It just doesn't have the output. But it's kinda cool for a back-up's back-up.


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## ScottFree (Jan 5, 2013)

xian13 said:


> Ok- I have an app on my phone ofr the flashlight function. It's neat. But it's not e replacement for an actual light. It just doesn't have the output. But it's kinda cool for a back-up's back-up.



Personally I've got four lights (SC52, E01, two microlights) to use up before I need to whip out the cell phone.


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## TKC (Jan 5, 2013)

*I will always carry a light.*


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## HtR (Jan 8, 2013)

dd61999 said:


> phones and flashlight apps are very bright now and the runtimes are fantastic. Do we still need to edc a flashlight?
> 
> Sure its not 100 lumens bright, but bright enough for most tasks



I use to think that way until I shone my mobile flashlight at a noise source 20 feet away and found out it had pathetic throw.


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## idleprocess (Jan 8, 2013)

Swapped the Thunderbolt for a Samsung Galaxy Nexus, which has an even better flash - seems twice as bright. Battery on the phone has 50% more capacity and is more energy-efficient, so any worries about squandering battery life (something the Thunderbolt had problems with) are pretty much gone. Does take the widget a few seconds to activate the LED, but the flood is pretty spectacular.

There's always going to be something on my keychain, but the more capable phone will step into more uses.


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## jh333233 (Jan 9, 2013)

Phone lacks throw.


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## TweakMDS (Jan 9, 2013)

Whether or not to use the light on my phone is analogue to the camera on my phone. It's results are dismal compared to other cameras I own, but if it's all I have with me (unlikely in either case), I'll happily make use of it.

I tend to have one micro light on my key chain, the results from that are more or less comparable to the flash in my phone. However, I use the display on my phone as a light more often than the "flash" (which is just a led of course).
I also normally have AT LEAST one more AA-style light in my jacket or pocket, an emergency kit in the car, an emergency evacuation kit near my desk at work (I'm the fire drill and evacuation guy) and usually at least one more light in my camera bag. 
The only time I find myself without an additional flashlight would be in the summertime if I'm dressed lighter and not necessarily have comfortable pocket space. But in mid summer, it's light enough outside from 5:30 AM until 22:30 PM anyway, so no light needed for outdoors.
Even then an AAA keychain light is probably the bare minimum.


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## Howecollc (Jan 9, 2013)

LEDninja said:


> New Yorkers Swarm The Electrical Outlets At The Pharmacy.
> Manhattanites are making a mass exodus northward, looking for power outlets and food.
> Image of people swarming the Duane Reede grocery store, keeping their cell phones juiced:
> http://www.businessinsider.com/new-yorkers-swarm-the-electrical-outlets-at-the-pharmacy-2012-10


A man without a car is as helpless as a cowboy without a horse.


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## Howecollc (Jan 9, 2013)

My cellular phone doesn't have a flashlight anyway.
It's an AT&T Wireless Home Phone "bag phone"


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## IsaacL (Jan 9, 2013)

Short answer: no

Longer answer: I use my cell phone's light as a back-up or a back-up to a back-up. It's not reliable enough to be trusted.


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## shq_luvlights (Jan 11, 2013)

It wont stop us from edcing flashlights. We all know how easily the phone's battery ran out. And now a lot phone manufacturers do this integrated phone batteries-where u cant just takes out and replace it with new ones. For me I'd still need my flashlight keychain cos I dont want my phone battery to ran out especially if its an emergency. That's our life line. Even if it's just a keychain flashlight it's much more rugged so I do not need to worry my Fenix E05 from shattering into pieces, or gettin wet should I accidentally knock it from my hand.


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## TMedina (Jan 16, 2013)

And my flashlights don't track my location: http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/20...dark-flashlight-app-tracks-your-location?lite


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## ThrowerLover (Jan 16, 2013)

Given the minimum capabilities of what I suspect most of us have in our EDCs, I can't see it happening. However, despite having a Quark Mini CR2 as my EDC, the reality is that I use the lockout screen on my iPhone most frequently, usually several times a day (actually night). I even went so far as to take a close-up picture of my brightest flashlight bouncing off of a very white surface. I then zoomed in on the brightest portion of the picture to make the whitest screen I could and then set it as the lockout screen. With one punch of the top button, I've got plenty of light to handle most middle-of-the-night indoor tasks. If that's not enough, it's very easy to access the LED on an iPhone without an app. From the lockout screen, it's one or two slides and two taps - slide the camera icon (in the lower right hand corner) up, slide from camera to video, and turn flash from Off to On. You can also preset the camera to video so that you don't have to change it from still camera. It only takes me about 5 seconds to go from lockout screen to LED light. Obviously, if there were to be even a hint of danger, I wouldn't be using an iPhone for my light.

In the end, I think the question is comparable to the question sometimes asked about vehicles: Which is better - a pick-up or a Porsche? Of course, it all depends on what the task is at the time.


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## dajab77 (Feb 14, 2013)

No. EDC light is what it is. Mobile phone serves many purposes. I prefer to use my phone for calls and my EDC for what it was made for.


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## DimmerD (Feb 16, 2013)

I can't seem to hold the phone very well in my mouth like I can a small flashlight.


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## TMedina (Dec 6, 2013)

Another shot in the war:

At least my flashlight can't lie about selling my personal data: Popular Android flashlight app lied about selling user data


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## Hooked on Fenix (Dec 7, 2013)

I honestly don't think mobile phone flashlight apps will stop the need to edc a flashlight for us. Many of us follow the rule that two is one and one is none when it comes to flashlights or any other important thing we depend on for safety. I do think having mobile phone flashlight apps will get nonflashaholics to edc at least one light when they would otherwise not consider bringing one at all. From a safety standpoint I think that is a good thing that they at least have a light. However, we may get a few people from time to time walking in the woods thinking all they need to survive is their cell phone with GPS, camera, and flashlight apps. I'd call using all these functions simultaneously the Totally Screwed or Darwin Award App. For when you need to find your way on an unfamiliar trail (GPS) at night (flashlight) while taking pictures of dangerous animals up close (camera) and talking on the phone with people instead of hiking with a partner (phone) we have the Totally Screwed App. with an hour runtime on your one and only battery. The Totally Screwed App. allows you to confidently get far enough into the woods to get lost before the battery dies leaving you lost, injured, and alone in the dark with no way to call for help. 

Redundancy should be considered with any device that pertains to safety and that is why mobile phone flashlights will not replace an edc.


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## dc38 (Dec 7, 2013)

Did mobile phones stop the need or desire for desktops? laptops? even tablets? What about calculators? graphing ones? scientific ones? what about cameras? SLR's? even point and shoots? 

Although in a last ditch scenario, your phone might be your only source of light (for whatever reason) It is hardly a dedicated light source. There will always be a need for more light, or directional light, or water resistant light, or Hi CRI light, etc. The day somebody can effectively and efficiently stick a pair of 219's in a phone and have a decent runtime WITH a MIL-SPEC rating, I think many of us just might stop carrying more than 1 backup flashlight. Who am I kidding, I don't think any one of us would rely solely on the phone and a single flashlight anyways.


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## dc38 (Dec 7, 2013)

ThrowerLover said:


> Which is better - a pick-up or a Porsche? Of course, it all depends on what the task is at the time.



What if you had a sleeper pickup?


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## Bedlam (Dec 7, 2013)

I used to carry a flashlight fairly regularly, but got out of the habit a while back as all the ones I have atm are fairly substantial.

Yesterday however, I'd have killed for one. We were out at a Christmas market and about half part 4, just as it was getting dark, the power in the entire area went out. Not once on our walk to the bus station or while we were waiting there did I see ONE person with a flashlight, except for people who's store's had them. What I did see however was person after person using the light on their phone to guide their way. I doubt the majority of these people would have had a light with them otherwise, me included. 

There's a time and a place for the light on a phone, and to me it's a last resort. I had the light on me phone and because of that I managed, but it doesn't at all replace the need for a light in situations like these. Imo, if you really see the need for a light then you'll carry one. If not, then the one of your phone will be sufficient.


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## Cataract (Dec 8, 2013)

Bedlam said:


> I used to carry a flashlight fairly regularly, but got out of the habit a while back as all the ones I have atm are fairly substantial.
> 
> Yesterday however, I'd have killed for one. We were out at a Christmas market and about half part 4, just as it was getting dark, the power in the entire area went out. Not once on our walk to the bus station or while we were waiting there did I see ONE person with a flashlight, except for people who's store's had them. What I did see however was person after person using the light on their phone to guide their way. I doubt the majority of these people would have had a light with them otherwise, me included.
> 
> There's a time and a place for the light on a phone, and to me it's a last resort. I had the light on me phone and because of that I managed, but it doesn't at all replace the need for a light in situations like these. Imo, if you really see the need for a light then you'll carry one. If not, then the one of your phone will be sufficient.



Fisrt: :welcome:

Second: now that you're on here I'm sure you'll see the light and start EDCing -it's just a matter of time. 

I have 3 flashlights apps on my phone, proving that 3 = 0 when the battery dies  

But in all seriousness, it's only a supplemental backup to my EDCs as it gives me a 3rd or 4th light without adding bulk to my pants and is also a great way to drain the phone's battery. Flashlight can be abused, are waterproof (at least a minimum...) can tail stand or be laid down and still give off light in the proper general direction and at worst can be held in the mouth. I dare anyone to hold their phone in their mouth while changing a tire in the rain :nana: (okay, you could always duck tape it to your head and wear a hat, but have fun ripping your hair out afterwards.) Smart phones are just a device that does many things and just as devices that can do multiple things, they only do a certain number of those things properly.

I'm off to patent the I-headband now...


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## Illum (Dec 8, 2013)

http://www.t3.com/news/android-flashlight-app-secretly-leaked-user-data-to-advertisers

errr....


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## Cinder (Dec 9, 2013)

Will light apps stop the need to EDC?

IMO, there is no definite Yes/No answer because everyone's EDC needs vary. For some, the answer will be "No" because they need their EDC to have a certain amount of brightness and throw that phone LEDs don't have. For others, the answer will be "Yes" if their phone LEDs are just as sufficient as their EDCs in getting a routine job done, like in my case:

I work the night shift and go home in the wee hours of the morning while it's still dark. I usually have an Olight M10 Maverick on me but recently I've been leaving it at home because my phone's LED is enough to help me find my keys and unlock the doors. Sure, I feel more secure with my M10, but I don't feel bad either if I forget it because my phone's LED does the job.


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## TEEJ (Dec 9, 2013)

I think there are people who would simply never really edc a flashlight, but, if there's an app for their phone, they would download it...as they are OK carrying a phone.

Essentially, MOST people do not have a flashlight on them normally, even on a keychain, etc. There are some who don't even have one in their car, etc. MOST don't even get an APP.

As they already HAVE a phone though, its pretty simple to get an app, ...and more get the app than who go and get a flashlight to carry around regularly...by an enormous margin.

So an app will not be likely to REPLACE a flashlight as an EDC, it will more likely simply ADD a light for someone who never had one before.

I know no one (Except Cinder) who stopped edc-ing when they got an app...people who DO edc tend to add, not subtract things that add capabilities.


So, overall, I'd say apps will add to the number of TOTAL people who have a light source on them as part of what they have with them regularly.


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## bluemax_1 (Dec 9, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> I think there are people who would simply never really edc a flashlight, but, if there's an app for their phone, they would download it...as they are OK carrying a phone.
> 
> Essentially, MOST people do not have a flashlight on them normally, even on a keychain, etc. There are some who don't even have one in their car, etc. MOST don't even get an APP.
> 
> ...


Spot on assessment.

Flashlight apps mean more folks having some form of available light where they previously had none.

Most folks who began EDC'ing will continue to do so as they've usually found options small and/or powerful enough to make cellphone lights a last ditch backup.


Max


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## Norm (Dec 9, 2013)

Let's save all those links an comments for the appropriate thread. - Norm


TMedina said:


> And my flashlights don't track my location: http://redtape.nbcnews.com/_news/20...dark-flashlight-app-tracks-your-location?lite





TMedina said:


> Another shot in the war:
> 
> At least my flashlight can't lie about selling my personal data: Popular Android flashlight app lied about selling user data





Illum said:


> http://www.t3.com/news/android-flashlight-app-secretly-leaked-user-data-to-advertisers
> 
> errr....


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## inetdog (Dec 9, 2013)

My phone currently has two flashlight apps loaded and I find them useful for different purposes.
One turns on the photo/video LED which is very floody. 
The other turns on the main OLED screen at full brightness. That is less bright, equally floody, but does not cast sharp shadows since it is such a large source. Very good for close work. (As long as you stay within a screen width or so. the illumination is independent of distance and there are no bright point reflections off shiny surfaces.)

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## gabe.trout (Dec 9, 2013)

I have a Samsung S3 and use my phone's led light from time to time. It can serve a purpose but as others have said it pails in comparison to good edc's, but it is nice to know it's there if the need should arise. Whenever I get a new phone the light app is one of the first ones I download. I would compare it to the knife blade on a mini Swiss Army knife, you might use it from time to time, but when you need a knife for a serious task, you pull out the Zero Tolerance 770 and get to work, lol.


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## Cataract (Dec 9, 2013)

inetdog said:


> My phone currently has two flashlight apps loaded and I find them useful for different purposes.
> One turns on the photo/video LED which is very floody.
> The other turns on the main OLED screen at full brightness. That is less bright, equally floody, but does not cast sharp shadows since it is such a large source. Very good for close work. (As long as you stay within a screen width or so. the illumination is independent of distance and there are no bright point reflections off shiny surfaces.)
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk



I'd like to hear details on those, but a more appropriate place would be on this other thread (which I started in September):
Best iPhone (or any other phone) Flashlight App


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## TMedina (Dec 10, 2013)

Norm said:


> Let's save all those links an comments for the appropriate thread. - Norm



Sorry Norm - I actually searched for the older "flashlight app" thread and managed to somehow miss the newer one. My bad!


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## bluemax_1 (Dec 10, 2013)

gabe.trout said:


> I have a Samsung S3 and use my phone's led light from time to time. It can serve a purpose but as others have said it pails in comparison to good edc's, but it is nice to know it's there if the need should arise. Whenever I get a new phone the light app is one of the first ones I download. I would compare it to the knife blade on a mini Swiss Army knife, you might use it from time to time, but when you need a knife for a serious task, you pull out the Zero Tolerance 770 and get to work, lol.


Great, you just cost me a couple hundred bucks 

I WAS EDC'ing a Kershaw Rake. Love it, and since getting my previous Speedsafe assisted opener, I won't consider one without it, but I missed the partially serrated edge of my previous EDC when I had to try cutting wet, hard nylon rope with it. 

That danged post of yours got me curious about ZT and after googling it, a 300ST is on the way. Speedsafe, S30V, 3.75", partially serrated. Fits all the bills. Now to see how it fits the hand and pocket (already hurts the pocketbook).

Hmmm... 5 EDC lights + the cellphone light, an EDC folder, SAK, wallet, watch and keys. Yep, I'm good. Have the cellphone as my ONLY source of light? I'll pass. 

Even at a bare minimum (full suit and tie as opposed to casual civvies), with small keychain options like the Klarus M10 and eGear Picolight, the cellphone light would only be the backup to the backup of the primary.


Max


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## Cinder (Dec 10, 2013)

> I know no one (Except Cinder) who stopped edc-ing when they got an app...people who DO edc tend to add, not subtract things that add capabilities.



I agree with you TEEJ! In my case if my phone didn't have a light then I'd be EDC-ing a flashlight to work  I've had an LED equipped phone for about 2 years now, before that I was EDC-ing. 

When I'm not headed to work I always have a light on me even if I don't expect to use it. Yes I know that sounds weird...leave my light home at night but bring it with me during the day when not working. I still bring my light with me to work every now and then, I just don't make an effort to remember to bring it with me on the way out.



> That danged post of yours got me curious about ZT and after googling it, a 300ST is on the way. Speedsafe, S30V, 3.75", partially serrated. Fits all the bills. Now to see how it fits the hand and pocket (already hurts the pocketbook).



I have a ZT 350 ST. Let me just say that you will not regret your purchase. ZTs feel like the Lamborghini of knives, but that's just my opinion.


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## bluemax_1 (Dec 10, 2013)

Cinder said:


> I have a ZT 350 ST. Let me just say that you will not regret your purchase. ZTs feel like the Lamborghini of knives, but that's just my opinion.



Thanks, that makes me feel a little better. I had to debate between the smaller 350 and bigger 300. I'll find out if I made the right choice.


Max


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## TEEJ (Dec 10, 2013)

If I get a Droid Razor, will I need need my old shaver?


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## agnelucio (Dec 10, 2013)

Yep, have to agree with 'bluemax 1', I would only ever use my phone as a 'backup to a backup'.
And, to be honest, if I was in a situation with no lights whatsoever, then it would either be a particularly rare daytime occurrence, or a situation where I'd probably want my phone's battery for other things (you know, compass, map, calling for help, etc).

So yeah, I have a torch app (came with the phone), but I've never used it (or had to use it). Best to stick with a couple of hundred lumens of throw than 50 lumens of complete flood.

To answer the original question; NO, phones will NEVER replace a good EDC.


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## TMedina (Dec 10, 2013)

The 350 is a little more pocket friendly, but that's about the major difference.

And yes, they are very, very nice knives.


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## braddy (Dec 10, 2013)

A phone light is what you use to fight your way to your real flashlight, if you don't edc already, sort of like a pistol to a rifle.


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## mzil (Dec 10, 2013)

I'd rather have 1000 average to low quality tools [but functional] in one, universal, hand held device I must keep on my person anyways, every time I leave the house, than 1000 state-of the-art, top quality tools, which due to their combined bulk and weight, I couldn't possibly swing carrying any more than 2 or 3 at a time, unless I lug round a huge backpack, etc. [not happening].

I rarely use my phone's light but I'm glad it's there, just in case.


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## BOHAWG (Dec 25, 2013)

So what happens when your battery starts to fade and you're in a power outage.... Do I use my edc to help you find your external battery or guide you to your car.... I need to use my phone for communication, I would never think of using it for a primary, secondary or backup.....LOL
My flashlight hangs out with my ID and my knife....goes in my pocket everyday like clockwork! If I need to use my Light as a impact weapon.... I've got it. Don't think your phone will work well if you need an impact weapon.


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## idleprocess (Dec 25, 2013)

If you need a high-performance EDC as a result of your normal routine, lack a smartphone, truly need to use your phone's limited charge for communication purposes _(playing less Angry Birds or Candy Crush helps in this regard)_, or have some other solid reason to avoid the use of a cellphone's LED flash for EDC situations, *cool*. But the hyperventilating melodrama I'm seeing on this subject suggests that this is not necessarily the case, and the True Believer enthusiasts™ see the cellphone LED flash as some sort of threat to their hobby.





BOHAWG said:


> So what happens when your battery starts to fade and you're in a power outage.... Do I use my edc to help you find your external battery or guide you to your car.... I need to use my phone for communication, I would never think of using it for a primary, secondary or backup.....LOL


Since everyone can come up with scenarios favorable to their argument, I'll try mine - which happens to me routinely, unlike my phone's battery being flat, power outages, or fending off hostiles. 

I'm carrying something while walking through a dark room at the end of the day and need to find something else. Rather than dig through my pocket to to fish out my EDC on the keyring (that I'll need to twist on anyway) or stumble to the light switch for the room, I fish out my phone - which has the usual >50% remaining charge - and one-handedly switch on the flashlight widget, locate what I'm looking for, then switch it off 30s later at the expense of <1% of the phone's battery life.

If I'm out for a walk, need throw, or have a longer task then the EDC likely gets used. But the flashlight widget is hugely advantageous for more casual, indoor, or brief room-illuminating duties (ala ceiling bounce). It's also charged daily unlike the EDC ... whose charge state is also not so apparent.


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## yearnslow (Dec 26, 2013)

Well, where I live an EDC is virtually essential. A phone just can't cut it, plus some phones are delicate things, unlike my C2L with a nailbender drop-in and a Z58, which isn't affected much by dust or water or dropping it from normal heights onto hard surfaces.


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## bluemax_1 (Dec 26, 2013)

Well, I just went through a power outage a few days ago. In contrast to power outages I've been through a couple of decades ago where I was one of the rare few to have a light source other than a cigarette lighter, with the abundance of cellphone users these days, many/most adults at least had a decent, usable emergency light source available.

But by the time the emergency lighting in the building I was in began cutting out (the first ones shut off about 45 mins in, the last ones lasted to just under 2 hours), most people's cellphones were about dead too. The few people who needed to call a ride (and apparently given little to no thought about how much remaining battery life their phone had) had to borrow cellphones from other folks whose phones still had juice to make their calls.

My cellphone was one of those that was borrowed to make calls because I hadn't drained the battery by using it as a flashlights OR occupying myself/keeping me entertained in the darkness.

What this showed me is that:
1) the proliferation of cellphone use means a vastly greater percentage of people have a usable light source in an emergency than 10-20 years ago
2) people are SO used to everyday conveniences that most of them are woefully unprepared for something as simple as the loss of easily available electric power.

A small percentage of the cellphone users had nearly dead batteries when the power outage occurred. These people were dependent on other folks for light. What DID amaze me though, was the number of people who proceeded to drain their emergency communications devices by using them as flashlights and/or entertainment, playing games, music or videos to occupy themselves all while not knowing when power might be restored.

People asked me (as they borrowed flashlights from me for restroom breaks etc.) if the reason I carry 5 flashlights on my person at all times is because I'm hoping for a scenario just like that one. I told them, "No, it's because I've BEEN THROUGH situations like this numerous times". 

I then explained the "2 is 1, and 1 is none" philosophy and explained that aside from ensuring that I had backups in case my primary light source failed, that I carried 3 small lights on my keychain (a Klarus MI10, eGear Picolight and Streamlight Nano) specifically because EVERY SINGLE TIME I've been in a blackout, folks around me have needed to borrow a light for one reason or another, so I carry small, cheap spares.

The biggest attraction/awe-factor though, was when I used my jacket to charge someone's dead cellphone so they could call their ride (because as with many/most cellphone users these days, no one bothers to memorize important cellphone numbers because they don't even consider what they would do if they had to call someone if their phone was dead, lost or stolen).


Max


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## rje58 (Dec 26, 2013)

yearnslow said:


> ... some phones are delicate things ...



In less than four years using smartphones, I have already cracked two screens when they were dropped on the ground outdoors. Quite a few of my friends and family members have cracked screens at one time or another. 



idleprocess said:


> But the hyperventilating melodrama I'm seeing on this subject suggests that this is not necessarily the case, and the True Believer enthusiasts™ see the cellphone LED flash as some sort of threat to their hobby.


Really? Somebody else's opinion and/or experience and/or preferences are different than yours, so instead of agreeing to disagree, "those OTHER people" are now some kind of "True Believer" cultists who are not merely entitled to their own opinion, but are "phonelight-phobic"? And yet still, that's not "hyperventilating melodrama" on your part?


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## idleprocess (Dec 26, 2013)

rje58 said:


> In less than four years using smartphones, I have already cracked two screens when they were dropped on the ground outdoors. Quite a few of my friends and family members have cracked screens at one time or another.
> 
> 
> Really? Somebody else's opinion and/or experience and/or preferences are different than yours, so instead of agreeing to disagree, "those OTHER people" are now some kind of "True Believer" cultists who are not merely entitled to their own opinion, but are "phonelight-phobic"? And yet still, that's not "hyperventilating melodrama" on your part?



You clipped the part where I mentioned a number of situations where one would need a purpose-built EDC. Short of specific reasons, the absolute rejections come across as a wee bit hyperbolic.


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## nbp (Dec 26, 2013)

Remember, the OP asked if phones would STOP the need to EDC a light, not whether it made a handy additional light source. I think we all agree that they can be handy, but they certainly DO NOT act to REPLACE an EDC flashlight. Yes?


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## TEEJ (Dec 26, 2013)

I might buy a flashlight that has a smart phone app on it.

I'm just worried that if I use it to make too many calls/surf the web (CPF, etc...) it might not have enough battery life left to provide light.


Do you think flashlights with smartphone apps will eliminate the need to carry a smartphone?


On a related but serious note, I had a plumber come out to fix a burst pipe.

He didn't have a flashlight on him, and I'm watching him use a cell phone to squint up into the chase to try to see the plumbing situation...and having a really hard time of it.

It was agonizing, as I had to run out the door.


I said "you really need a flashlight".

He said he had on in the truck, but since his phone has a light on it, he leaves the flashlight in the truck.


I said there's small flashlights that fit into a pocket that are 100x brighter than the phone, and he laughed (LAUGHED I TELL YOU!!!!)

I took out the first thing that fell to hand, which was an RRT01vn, and popped on 900 Lumens of "A lot brighter than his phone".


He about had a heart attack, and said that's way brighter than even the large light in the truck, and he's got to get one of those.


I then said I had some wrenches too, in case he was going to try to use a swiss army knife or something to work on the plumbing. He said he had the tools in the truck, and I rolled my eyes at him.


I said THAT'S what you said about a FLASHLIGHT.


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## StuGatz (Dec 26, 2013)

In a word.... NEVER!!!


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## mzil (Dec 26, 2013)

The cameras built-in to cell phones used to be complete jokes compared to dedicated point and shoot cameras average consumers might use to take day to day snapshots, but they get better and better each year. I suspect I'm only a few years away from concluding that the one built-in is adequate for my basic EDC photo needs and that the bulk of carrying a secondary camera, daily, just isn't worth it. I wish I could say the same about the light, but I don't think they are advancing at the same rate. [I suspect because there is less demand for it.]

A revolutionary new battery technology could change that.


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## TEEJ (Dec 26, 2013)

mzil said:


> The cameras built-in to cell phones used to be complete jokes compared to dedicated point and shoot cameras average consumers might use to take day to day snapshots, but they get better and better each year. I suspect I'm only a few years away from concluding that the one built-in is adequate for my basic EDC photo needs and that the bulk of carrying a secondary camera, daily, just isn't worth it. I wish I could say the same about the light, but I don't think they are advancing at the same rate. [I suspect because there is less demand for it.]
> 
> A revolutionary new battery technology could change that.



Those are good points.


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## TMedina (Dec 26, 2013)

Those are excellent points. There is still the basic fallibility of an "all-in-one" device - the same drawback to putting all your eggs in one basket.

And as BlueMax pointed out, even with massively improved battery capabilities, if users fail to prioritize and act responsibly, no amount of hardware will compensate for user error. Of course, this pertains to flashlights, too.

@TEEJ: Dude. You antagonized the plumber before you left? Are you trying to come back to a flooded basement and malfunctioning toilets?


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## TEEJ (Dec 26, 2013)

TMedina said:


> Those are excellent points. There is still the basic fallibility of an "all-in-one" device - the same drawback to putting all your eggs in one basket.
> 
> And as BlueMax pointed out, even with massively improved battery capabilities, if users fail to prioritize and act responsibly, no amount of hardware will compensate for user error. Of course, this pertains to flashlights, too.
> 
> @TEEJ: Dude. You antagonized the plumber before you left? Are you trying to come back to a flooded basement and malfunctioning toilets?




Lol

I left my 6' 3", 31 year old son to supervise/intimidate as needed.

He edc's a Malkoff that he used to point out deficiencies.

No floods.


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## idleprocess (Dec 26, 2013)

nbp said:


> Remember, the OP asked if phones would STOP the need to EDC a light, not whether it made a handy additional light source. I think we all agree that they can be handy, but they certainly DO NOT act to REPLACE an EDC flashlight. Yes?


It's a false dichotomy most of the time. A large percentage of us are already carrying both. There are numerous scenarios where the cell phone works as well if not better to the point that it could replace the EDC flashlight for many that do not require the performance a purpose-built unit provides.

A friend of mine has had a number of higher-performing RWD cars. He uses his car for the same things most people do - commuting, errands, road trips, etc. He has no urgent _need_ for >200HP performance cars, he just prefers them. And that's fine - the want of something due to the pleasures of ownership rather than life/vocational/safety/etc necessity forms the basis of ever-increasing swaths of the economy as we learn to produce the true essentials for cheaper.

I certainly don't _need_ an EDC at all for vocational or routine safety concerns yet have a keyright light, the cellphone, and a larger light in my backpack that's usually nearby anyway.


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## TEEJ (Dec 26, 2013)

idleprocess said:


> It's a false dichotomy most of the time. A large percentage of us are already carrying both. There are numerous scenarios where the cell phone works as well if not better to the point that it could replace the EDC flashlight for many that do not require the performance a purpose-built unit provides.
> 
> A friend of mine has had a number of higher-performing RWD cars. He uses his car for the same things most people do - commuting, errands, road trips, etc. He has no urgent _need_ for >200HP performance cars, he just prefers them. And that's fine - the want of something due to the pleasures of ownership rather than life/vocational/safety/etc necessity forms the basis of ever-increasing swaths of the economy as we learn to produce the true essentials for cheaper.
> 
> I certainly don't _need_ an EDC at all for vocational or routine safety concerns yet have a keyright light, the cellphone, and a larger light in my backpack that's usually nearby anyway.





Well, "replace" means you stop EDCing a flashlight....so, if you have both, there is no conflict, as you have a smart phone because you use it as a smart phone, and you have a flashlight because you use it as a flashlight.

So, I agree that some people (like the plumber) DID essentially replace the flashlight...but, it wasn't working, but, he was not savvy enough to think about how much better a flashlight worked, despite his inability to do his job well...or perhaps, those thought processes are connected after all?

In other words, the plumber knew the phone had a light, and, just decided that it was redundant to ALSO bring a flashlight. When the phone's light was inadequate, instead of going out and getting a flashlight from the truck, the part of his brain that thinks about flashlights kept telling him he HAD a light, and, o, he kept squinting and tying to hold it closer in the pipe chase to see what he had to see. Even when it was clear he could NOT see what he wanted to see, after several minutes of trying, he STILL could not make the leap it took to realize he COULD HAVE actually gone out the truck, gotten a flashlight, and come back in 30 seconds or so...and seen what he was trying to see sooner.

But, alas, he never made the leap in cognition required, and, had I not lit it up for him, he might have wasted a lot more time, in vain. 

I do not know how long he would have been stuck in that "stupid-loop", but, as I said, after several minutes w/o concluding that he needed more light to see with, despite the obvious problem of not having enough light to see with, he never got it.

He still had not separated thoughts such as "But I HAVE a light" from, "The light I HAVE is not bright enough", which, potentially might have lead to "I'll go get a brighter light".

He was stuck thinking "I have a light" and it never occurred to him that some lights are better than others.




So people who live in perpetual sunshine/light can get by with no auxiliary lights at all, and never know the difference, and, frankly, they'll be OK. 

Others would be BETTER off with a light, but, don't think about it...its simply off their radar. So they are in the dark, and scared or panicked, or trip and get hurt, etc...and its just "bad luck" as far as they're concerned.

They're no more likely to be convinced to EDC a flashlight in case it gets dark, than to wear a crash helmet when driving their car to work in case of a severe crash.


Then there's the ones who might carry one if there's zero inconvenience....and so forth.


Each group would see the following group as paranoid prepper freaks.


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## idleprocess (Dec 26, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> I do not know how long he would have been stuck in that "stupid-loop", but, as I said, after several minutes w/o concluding that he needed more light to see with, despite the obvious problem of not having enough light to see with, he never got it.
> 
> He still had not separated thoughts such as "But I HAVE a light" from, "The light I HAVE is not bright enough", which, potentially might have lead to "I'll go get a brighter light".
> 
> He was stuck thinking "I have a light" and it never occurred to him that some lights are better than others.


Your plumber has a vocational need for a good flashlight that years of experience should have beaten into them. That they didn't invites one to question their competence ... that, or their rate structure since getting the job done in a timely fashion seems not to be a priority.


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## TEEJ (Dec 26, 2013)

idleprocess said:


> Your plumber has a vocational need for a good flt.v. he lashlight that years of experience should have beaten into them. That they didn't invites one to question their competence ... that, or their rate structure since getting the job done in a timely fashion seems not to be a priority.




Add to the dummness a fixed price for ghe work....so the longer they took, the less they msde that day.

In a round about way...what i mean is that cell phones having a light will - overall, INCREASE the number of people who have a light with them as l art of their normal stuff.

The few bozos who do replace a flashlight may be the exception...and either the phone lights get better or they eventually get a real light agsin after they finally realize the difference. 

Its not that the phone repaces the flashlight as much as it adds a light to places that never used to have one. 


I know 15 years ago, most people would be plunged into blackness if the power went out at work or school, there was an accident,, etc...and that now, they would flip on their phones.


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## themcfarland (Dec 26, 2013)

To me, 
a flashlight is a tool, if I took my phone out to use everytime I used my light. It would not be in good shape.. 

I drop my light, throw it, If I did that with my phone.. well it would be replaced and not used as a light again..


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## nbp (Dec 26, 2013)

idleprocess said:


> Blah blah blah



The question is simple: you have a phone with a light on it - are you going to leave your flashlight at home, yes or no? I don't understand the point of the extensive diatribes.... It's a yes or no question. It's not complicated.


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## Etsu (Dec 27, 2013)

I can't believe an obvious troll thread got 182 replies!


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## mzil (Dec 27, 2013)

I don't think it's a troll question. The OP clearly indicated in a follow up post that the cellphone light wasn't supposed to be the only flashlight one would ever need in any circumstances, but more a question of are they good enough to replace say a keychain light:




dd61999 said:


> Im not talking about replacing flashlights for more important task, especially being in the great outdoors
> 
> Im just talking about maybe replacing your keychain light


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## idleprocess (Dec 27, 2013)

nbp said:


> A curiously exasperated question...


Mu


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## mcnair55 (Dec 27, 2013)

Etsu said:


> I can't believe an obvious troll thread got 182 replies!



Read the original post,it certainally is not trolling and i have no idea why you think it is.It is the op thinking like what has happened to the music industry,who needs to buy a cd these days?


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## TEEJ (Dec 27, 2013)

The guy posting is not a troll, and, its more of a discussion than a yes/no question.

Besides, we would only need a poll and post results...if it were.



Its a forum, where people talk about stuff.

Most of the replies are simply voicing how they feel about the topic, and responding to how others feel about it. (That's a discussion)


Its not asking if YOU will leave a light home or not, its asking if, in general, that might happen.


So, for example, my take on that topic is some might stop edc-ing, but probably because they made a bad choice, but, as most people DON'T edc anyway, the phone apps will actually increase the total number of people who will now HAVE some form of light on them if it gets dark.




So, people can say "yes" or "no", but its far more interesting, to me at least, to hear everybody's take on it.


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## nbp (Dec 27, 2013)

I guess I didn't read it that way. When I read the OP again:



> phones and flashlight apps are very bright now and the runtimes are fantastic. Do we still need to edc a flashlight?
> 
> Sure its not 100 lumens bright, but bright enough for most tasks



To me that question implies that the reader already EDCs a light and a negative response to the question means the cellphone light is sufficient and causes one to STOP carrying the light. To me, it seemed there were two answers: Either, No, the cell phone is sufficient for me for XYZ reason and I am no longer carrying the light, or Yes, I still need a light for XYZ reason. 

The reason idleprocess' posts seemed weird to me was that he criticized some posters for saying they would never trust their cellphone light as he thought the scenarios were hyperdramatic or whatever, and said he has no real need for a light and the phone is fine for him, but then said he still does carry lights anyways. It just seemed contradictory to me. If the phone is good enough, why the extra lights? If the phone is not good enough, no problem at all, but why then criticize others for saying the phone will never replace their lights, regardless of their reasoning? 

Maybe that makes more sense? I don't know, just came across as weird to me. :shrug: 

Anyways, I think flashlights are cool and will keep carrying them no matter how bright my phone is.


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## FLY FIGHT WIN (Dec 27, 2013)

I believe that the flashlight in your phone should be treated as a back up light and not a primary EDC light. Especially when phones are expensive with the risk of dropping them. Not to mention that using your phone as a flashlight may drain your battery to the point where you can't make a call in an emergency.


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## idleprocess (Dec 27, 2013)

nbp said:


> The reason idleprocess' posts seemed weird to me was that he criticized some posters for saying they would never trust their cellphone light as he thought the scenarios were hyperdramatic or whatever, and said he has no real need for a light and the phone is fine for him, but then said he still does carry lights anyways. It just seemed contradictory to me. If the phone is good enough, why the extra lights? If the phone is not good enough, no problem at all, but why then criticize others for saying the phone will never replace their lights, regardless of their reasoning?


The oft-expressed *absolution* was puzzling and comical. Especially when people are standing by their 123A/CR2 powered EDC's that are not cheap to operate while proclaiming that they would never use their cell phone flash for EDC functions unless as a last-ditch act of desperation ... because they evidently need every last mAH of charge for communications, and conditions are too harsh for cell phones anyway.

Yes, this is an enthusiasts forum. Yes, there are plenty of conditions where use of a purpose-built EDC is preferable - including the simple _desire_ to use one over something like a cell phone flash. I do not argue with plausible circumstances or even preference.

I carry the EDC light because I've had one for years - since before I had a cellphone with a camera or LED flash. When I acquired the first phone with a LED flash, it struck me as a useful augmentation of its capabilities and I found that its flood of light was more useful for numerous tasks than the spot that all of my AAA keychain EDC's produced. There is no mass/volume/"rule" limitation to prevent me from carrying both daily. The L0D I'm currently EDC'ing runs happily on LSD NiMH's, so it's essentially free to operate like the phone (as a flashlight, natch).



> Maybe that makes more sense? I don't know, just came across as weird to me.


There may be some skepticism leaking through when I hear people describing their triple/quadruple/quintuple EDC short of specific circumstances because it seems a tad excessive to be truly _EDC'ing_ (as in carrying on your person). But then again I often carry a concealed handgun that I have little expectation of ever using during my lifetime, so I try to not to voice those thoughts explicitly. Short of the mention of significant downsides to whatever the individual is doing, it's not terribly relevant, thus really not worth concerning myself over.

In that vein, I shall let the subject drop unless a further response is desired.


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## Lampbeam (Dec 27, 2013)

dd61999 said:


> phones and flashlight apps are very bright now and the runtimes are fantastic. Do we still need to edc a flashlight?
> 
> Sure its not 100 lumens bright, but bright enough for most tasks




Yes, because I'm a bus driver and if I get caught doing a vehicle inspection with the light on my phone they will fire me. So, in my case at least, I really do have to EDC a flashlight. Transportation operators are not allowed to use cell phones. They actually send the video feed to India for screening. A whole room full of monitors fast forward through the videos on a sample basis with their nimble quick eyes looking for cell phone lights (among other things.) If they find any job performance issue, they send a video clip to management for review.


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## luxxlightsaber (Dec 28, 2013)

Heck no!! With all the awsome lights we have here. Theres no way im restoring to my weak phone light for edc. Let this be the last response please!


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## mcnair55 (Dec 28, 2013)

luxxlightsaber said:


> Heck no!! With all the awsome lights we have here. Theres no way im restoring to my weak phone light for edc. Let this be the last response please!




Wrong forum for the last response fella some go on for years.My phone light is very bright and handy at night and i would have no need for an edc other than it is smaller than my handy.


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## braddy (Dec 28, 2013)

I sure look for a lot more in an edc light than that, I guess we all need to quit working so hard to find just the right lights for our edc, with our long lists of requirements and preferences.

Personally, no phone can meet my list of requirements for an edc light, and I haven't even seen a phone that I don't have to remove from my person at times during the day, to protect it.


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## TEEJ (Dec 28, 2013)

I do notice a pattern.

Those who don't really NEED a bright light find the (relatively) feeble glow of the camera flashlight completely bright enough for THEM. 

To those people, there's really no difference in the light, and, they are fine with the phone. 



Those who needs are different, NEED a flashlight, as the phone's light is too weak, and/or the phone itself is too weak, etc.

For those of us in emergency response, we probably look at use patterns differently, as we SEE the results of what happens in both directions. 

A normal person may feel that using up communication time to get light is fine, as they can just recharge the phone if it gets low. Those who see people with dead phones when a disaster knocks out the power unexpectedly, desperately wanting to call loved ones to see if they are OK/let them know that they're alright, or to go to XYZ hospital, etc...and unable to because they used their phone lights to get out of the pitch black building or stadium, etc, see the communication time as something to maintain a reserve of...in case of emergencies.



Again, convincing someone ELSE that what YOU feel is important, when they see you as over/concerned/prepared, is like trying to convince the average person that they are crazy for not wearing a crash helmet when driving their car to work.

You can ARGUE that serious head injuries are a leading cause of death, yada yada yada, but, they are going to STILL look at you like you're crazy, and say "I'm not wearing a stupid crash helmet just to drive to work".


THAT is what the argument to carry a flashlight sounds like to the average person.


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## dc38 (Dec 28, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> I do notice a pattern.
> .........
> THAT is what the argument to carry a flashlight sounds like to the average person.



ADDENDUM! Everybody does need a flashlight at one point in their lives...even when walking to the bathroom with a flashlight app. I think people would be less upset dropping a flashlight into the toilet or onto the floor than dropping their phones, which brings up the point of 'insurance'. As a dedicated light source, a flashlight is something you don't need until you actually do need it. That's why it's a hobby and lifestyle for us, and a waste of time and money for a layman.


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## luxxlightsaber (Dec 28, 2013)

The professor has schooled us.


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## luxxlightsaber (Dec 28, 2013)

mcnair55 said:


> Wrong forum for the last response fella some go on for years.My phone light is very bright and handy at night and i would have no need for an edc other than it is smaller than my handy.


 If you use your phone light as an edc or think its very bright,your not a real Flashaholic FELLA! Plus this is the right forum BRO!


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## mcnair55 (Dec 28, 2013)

luxxlightsaber said:


> If you use your phone light as an edc or think its very bright,your not a real Flashaholic FELLA! Plus this is the right forum BRO!



Thanks for telling me CHAP your command of reading correctly has sadly lost you,my phone light is well bright enough for evening use but I use another light as an EDC because it is SMALLER.:nana:

As regards wrong forum,you need to read your post again as you seem to be a bit slow.


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## thedoc007 (Dec 28, 2013)

mcnair55 said:


> Thanks for telling me CHAP your command of reading correctly has sadly lost you,my phone light is well bright enough for evening use but I use another light as an EDC because it is SMALLER.:nana:
> 
> As regards wrong forum,you need to read your post again as you seem to be a bit slow.



Let's avoid ad hominem attacks please...comment on the post, not the poster. 

I'm in agreement that flashlight apps are a good thing, but I'm still going to carry my dedicated lights. I've only been around CPF for about a year, and haven't had any major emergencies to deal with, but having a GOOD light has come in handy more times than I can count. Has it ever been strictly necessary, life or death? No. But planning for catastrophes only misses the point...you can make your life easier and more fun by having a light ready for whatever happens.


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## rje58 (Dec 28, 2013)

*NEWSFLASH: SmartFlashlights to Replace Cellphones!*

They've already got the flashlight, display screen and camera - they're working to add cell phone capability and when that is perfected and tested....

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?309573-Nitefighter-CL200-World-s-First-Smart-Flashlight-Equiped-with-LCD-Screen-and-Camera

YES! SmartFlashlights with built-in cameras and cellphone functionality WILL eliminate the need for "smartphones"!! You heard it here first! Another CPF exclusive!

(oh, and by the way, when smartwatch phones replace the currently popular models - will you need to take it off you wrist to effectively use the light app?)


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## RoBeacon (Dec 28, 2013)

Wouldn't make me stop using my EDC. it's much faster to illuminate with my EDC than it is my phone. Wrestle phone from pocket, unlock, find flashlight app, try holding phone in mouth while using both hands. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Albert56 (Dec 28, 2013)

I think flashlight apps are silly. I haven't seen one that isn't more than a glorified "key light". I don't see these apps replacing dedicated flashlights in terms of output or practicality.

Anyway, why would you want to risk dropping and damaging a smart phone while fumbling around in the dark for a function that one press of a switch will access in a REAL flashlight?


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## bluemax_1 (Dec 29, 2013)

*Re: NEWSFLASH: SmartFlashlights to Replace Cellphones!*



rje58 said:


> They've already got the flashlight, display screen and camera - they're working to add cell phone capability and when that is perfected and tested....
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?309573-Nitefighter-CL200-World-s-First-Smart-Flashlight-Equiped-with-LCD-Screen-and-Camera
> 
> ...


Nah, you just aim it like Buzz Lightyear. 


Max


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## mcnair55 (Dec 29, 2013)

*Re: NEWSFLASH: SmartFlashlights to Replace Cellphones!*

I do not think any of us anorak wearers will be ditching the edc soon for sure but i embrace new technology and use it when it suits.My simple 3 brightness level handy app will serve as a candle on lay flat if needed and generally i always have one of my handy s with me just like my coin less money sticker stuck to the back of my handy which enables me to pay for items under £20 without chip and pin.

Non flash geeks are the wider market and like countless other apps some are good and some are bad.

To further using modern technology,charge whilst typing on cpf.


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## BOHAWG (Jan 7, 2014)

StuGatz said:


> In a word.... NEVER!!!


+1


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## Poppy (Jan 7, 2014)

bluemax_1 said:


> Well, I just went through a power outage a few days ago. In contrast to power outages I've been through a couple of decades ago where I was one of the rare few to have a light source other than a cigarette lighter, with the abundance of cellphone users these days, many/most adults at least had a decent, usable emergency light source available.
> 
> But by the time the emergency lighting in the building I was in began cutting out (the first ones shut off about 45 mins in, the last ones lasted to just under 2 hours), most people's cellphones were about dead too. The few people who needed to call a ride (and apparently given little to no thought about how much remaining battery life their phone had) had to borrow cellphones from other folks whose phones still had juice to make their calls.
> 
> ...



Great story Max :thumbsup:


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## braddy (Jan 7, 2014)

If I get stuck on an elevator in a major blackout, I want my 27 hour LOD1 on my key chain.


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## Flying Turtle (Jan 7, 2014)

My dumb phone doesn't have a flashlight app, so I'm stuck with my edc. Even when I eventually get smarter I'll probably continue to edc, since I hate to carry a fat phone in my pocket. 

Geoff


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## braddy (Jan 7, 2014)

The truth is that my dumb phone doesn't have a light or camera either, I also intend to cease carrying a phone within a few months.


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## 18650 (Jan 8, 2014)

I don't know what it is like on other Android phones or Apple for that matter but the reason why those flashlight apps need permissions to use the camera is because the LED can (apparently) only be used in camera mode. That could end up draining your battery quite nicely with the need to power the camera sensor, cpu, and screen. I also worry about the heatsinking with the LED running all the time with the rest of the contraption.


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## jacobt90 (Jan 8, 2014)

I recently installed an application on my android phone with the help of which, I am able to use my flashlight of the camera as a torch flashlight. It works fine though it uses a lot of juice of my battery but is good at time of need.


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## Shinigami (Jan 8, 2014)

IOS7 on Apple phones has a flashlight app built right in, no need to unlock, just one swipe to get to the activation button.

I never remember to use it as I always have a "real" light in reach.


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## f22shift (Jan 8, 2014)

bluemax_1 said:


> The biggest attraction/awe-factor though, was when I used my jacket to charge someone's dead cellphone so they could call their ride (because as with many/most cellphone users these days, no one bothers to memorize important cellphone numbers because they don't even consider what they would do if they had to call someone if their phone was dead, lost or stolen).
> 
> 
> Max



i noticed that other people use my portable usb charger more than me.:ironic: same concept of having one just in case but people really need to be responsible. 
it's not to say that one day someone will be more prepared than me. i wouldn't mind asking for help but i would repay the person in some way.

actually i always leave the house with 100% charge on the phone. i walk around with a portable charge hooked up so i always leave the house at 100%. am i crazy? haha

back on topic, i probably already replied to this thread. the flashlight app is #3 if the first two edc's fail. i should pickup on advice and carry some more coin cells as loaners. my titanium edc's will not be loaned out


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## Mr Floppy (Jan 8, 2014)

f22shift said:


> i noticed that other people use my portable usb charger more than me.:ironic: same concept of having one just in case but people really need to be responsible.



Same, the ML102 and the battery out of my EDC. Was thinking about carrying around another 18650 cell with me if I didn't EDC an AA light as well.


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## mzil (Jan 9, 2014)

Here's an interesting phone app: Send and receive Morse code through light flashes, both encoded and decoded to on-screen text by the app, so the user doesn't even need to_ know _Morse code! [Probably 99% of the population]

http://vimeo.com/68308054

[I've never used the app myself, so don't consider this an endorsement, but it would seem a useful tool for spies or people stuck in a survival situation where there was no cell tower coverage, perhaps? There seem to be alternate versions, but this is the first one I stumbled upon. The concept at least would seem to have great potential, if you ask me.]


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## TMedina (Jan 9, 2014)

Heh - cool. Turn your flashlight app into a self-repeating emergency beacon and/or emergency message.


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## Etsu (Jan 9, 2014)

Let's be realistic. Morse code smartphone app might be a fun thing to play with for a few minutes, but it's a 100% gimmick. Show me 1 person who has ever used it to get rescued, when no other method would have worked, and I'll eat my words.

Several of my flashlights have a built-in SOS signal, which is still a 99.999% useless gimmick. It might help someone stranded on a island looking for rescue from S&R at night, but that's about it. I suppose if you got into a time-machine and went back 200 years, it might be somewhat more useful (like only 99.99% useless).

 I'll give credit to the smartphone app that at least it can be buried on an unused page somewhere and never be seen again after you've had some fun with it.


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## Overclocker (Jan 9, 2014)

beat up but still my favorite phone the motorola droid 4 XT894 (coz qwerty rules!). motorola had the decency to equip it with a neutral white emitter, and the CRI to my eyes seems quite high! i wonder what emitter it uses...


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## mzil (Jan 9, 2014)

The animosity shown in several posts in this thread to a common feature which quite simply doesn't have to be invoked if one doesn't want/need it, and in most cases is totally free if one already owns a smartphone anyways, astounds me.


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## Etsu (Jan 9, 2014)

mzil said:


> The animosity shown in several posts in this thread to a common feature which quite simply doesn't have to be invoked if one doesn't want/need it, and in most cases is totally free if one already owns a smartphone anyways, astounds me.



You're astounded? Really? This is a group dedicated to flashlights.

If you walked in to a 5 star restaurant and asked the head chef if Kraft Dinner was going to replace the restaurant industry, would you be astounded if he ridiculed you?

BTW, I still think this was a troll. But after 220 posts, I admit it is a good one.


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## mzil (Jan 9, 2014)

He clarified he was curious if cell phone apps might/will substitute for say, "keychain lights" and 99% of patrons of 5 star restaurants have found occasions where eating at fast food joints like McDonalds fit their needs at the particular time, BTW. Miraculously they can coexist.

His question was also speculative, as in "what will we find to be the case in the future?". Note the first word in his question, not statement, was "will", not "do". He never suggested existing cellphone lights were just as good as all known flashlights, in all ways, for any occasion.


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## mzil (Jan 9, 2014)

Etsu said:


> BTW, I still think this was a troll. But after 220 posts, I admit it is a good one.



Which of OP's over 1000 _other_ forum posts suggests to you he is a troll, or do you think he only just now has decided to make a troll post?


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## bluemax_1 (Jan 9, 2014)

mzil said:


> The animosity shown in several posts in this thread to a common feature which quite simply doesn't have to be invoked if one doesn't want/need it, and in most cases is totally free if one already owns a smartphone anyways, astounds me.



Really? I can't say I've seen ANY animosity towards cellphone flashlight apps. I've read all the posts in this thread and the general tone is, "they're great as a last ditch light source, AND it means more people who would usually have NO emergency light at least do now due to it, but I would only ever use it as a backup".

What animosity do you speak of?

Continuing with someone else's restaurant analogy, does the abundance of fast food mean that the people who like going to good restaurants will stop going to good restaurants and solely eat fast food instead? No, they won't. Sure, they may occasionally consume fast food because it's convenient, but for folks who like good restaurants, fast food isn't going to replace good restaurants. 

Sure, there are going to be other folks for whom fast food IS their main diet, and who rarely if ever, go to a nice restaurant. Different preferences for different people.

Likewise, it appears that the general consensus here (aside from the occasional exception), is that most folks who EDC a flashlight began doing so because they've discovered the benefits of carrying a flashlight. For most of these types of individuals, flashlight apps are seen as convenient last ditch backups, but not enough to stop carrying an EDC.


Max


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## alpg88 (Jan 9, 2014)

dd61999 said:


> phones and flashlight apps are very bright now and the runtimes are fantastic. Do we still need to edc a flashlight?
> 
> Sure its not 100 lumens bright, but bright enough for most tasks


for a none flashaholic, no, there is no need for edc for such people, who are 99% of population. not that they carried them before such apps. but us, flashaholics, will never substitute a light for some phone. hell no.


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## Etsu (Jan 9, 2014)

mzil said:


> Which of OP's over 1000 _other_ forum posts suggests to you he is a troll, or do you think he only just now has decided to make a troll post?



I'm not sure, maybe. But the subject line certainly looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, ...

If it was posted on an Apple or Android forum, it would be a legitimate question for that audience (naive perhaps, but legitimate). But posted on a flashlight forum dedicated to thousands of people who like good flashlights and EDC them, ... well, if you can't see why I think it's a troll, then I don't think I'll be able to explain it to you.

In any case, I applaud him for a very successful thread. Even though I'm suspicious of his intent, I can't disagree that it incited a lot of responses.


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## mzil (Jan 9, 2014)

bluemax_1 said:


> What animosity do you speak of?



I'm obviously outnumbered here and don't have the time or inclination to spend lots of time on this rather trivial matter, but as an example, take the very first response:

_"Till you drop it and it shatters.

Or you run out of juice in the woods and have no way to replace the cell quickly and easily. 

Or it gets wet and dies.

Or you want to light something up and talk on the phone at the same time.

Or you need to light something up more than 3 feet away.

Or you want to use light something up in an area where phones are prohibited.

Or any number of other good reasons why a phone does not replace a flashlight. I don't have a flashlight app on my iPhone, nor do I care to get one. I have flashlights for flashlights."
_
This post reeks of elitism, exclusivity, and condescension. Especially that last sentence. It is akin to Crocodile Dundee saying, "You call that a knife?"

But I'm sure you wont admit that the post was in any sense antagonistic or belittling to the OP's needs [no wonder he quit the thread] so it is futile to discuss this any further.

Bye.


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## nbp (Jan 9, 2014)

Personally I thought those were all pretty good reasons why I wouldn't leave my EDC light at home on account of carrying a smartphone. I stand by that post. 

Cheers.


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## bluemax_1 (Jan 9, 2014)

mzil said:


> I'm obviously outnumbered here and don't have the time or inclination to spend lots of time on this rather trivial matter, but let's look for example at the very first response:
> 
> _"Till you drop it and it shatters.
> 
> ...



With the exception of the last line you quoted, I wouldn't call any of that animosity. All those are valid points when comparing an EDC vs a flashlight app. The last line though, does have a peculiar mentality. Since flashlight apps are available for free and don't negatively affect the phone or its use (unless you get one of those crap apps that sells your info), I don't see why anyone would choose NOT to have one on their phone. It's like refusing a FREE last ditch emergency backup flashlight that takes up NO extra space and weighs nothing. Why turn it down? I don't use mine, but I have it anyway, as the backup to the backup for the backup of my backup to my EDC.

As I said, if you look at all the responses in the thread, aside from a few exceptions, most folks here share the view that flashlight apps are good in that they provide a viable useful light source for the vast majority of folks who wouldn't otherwise have one, and they can provide a potential backup light in case your EDC can't. Most of the folks who EDC though, do so because they've found significant benefits to carrying a well made dedicated light source, and the relative shortcomings of a cellphone with a flashlight app mean that they aren't going to stop EDC'ing.


Max


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## nbp (Jan 9, 2014)

And regarding the last sentence of my post, I now HAVE a flashlight app on my iPhone thanks to iOS7, and I HAVE tried it out, and I find it inadequate for my needs. So save for a last resort situation as noted by the previous poster, I still don't care to use it, especially not as a replacement for my normally carried lights.


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## idleprocess (Jan 9, 2014)

I broke down and replaced the Galaxy Nexus with a Moto X, which has phenomenal battery life and switches the flashlight on instantly with a widget. The flash seems to have better color than the Nexus, although is a bit dimmer - perhaps because the Moto X's camera performs so much better in low light.



jacobt90 said:


> I recently installed an application on my android phone with the help of which, I am able to use my flashlight of the camera as a torch flashlight. It works fine though it uses a lot of juice of my battery but is good at time of need.


Depending on the phone / OS, there are widgets available that can run the flash without the screen being on, which uses immensely less juice than the apps that run with the screen on. Help keeps your pupils from snapping shut too - don't have that bright screen in your field of vision.



18650 said:


> I don't know what it is like on other Android phones or Apple for that matter but the reason why those flashlight apps need permissions to use the camera is because the LED can (apparently) only be used in camera mode. That could end up draining your battery quite nicely with the need to power the camera sensor, cpu, and screen. I also worry about the heatsinking with the LED running all the time with the rest of the contraption.


I don't know the backend for iOS nor Windows Phone, but I once read that Android phones enable the flash by messing with the camera's light meter - a far more circuitous method than simply telling the LED to switch on which makes the apps themselves more complex and troublesome due to the wide variety of Android hardware out there.

All LED flashes I've seen for cellphones are quite low power - on the order of 5mm LED's, so heatsinking is a modest concern for the LED itself and of no real concern for the rest of the device. The days of Lumileds trying to hustle the original "Luxeon Flash" _(a slight modification of the original Luxeon I if I recall)_ that truly needed to be pulsed with >1W of power to produce useful lumens are long long gone with today's 100 lm/W LED's.


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## Cataract (Jan 11, 2014)

18650 said:


> [...] I also worry about the heatsinking with the LED running all the time with the rest of the contraption.



I wouldn't worry much about the heatsinking of a ~10 lumens LED unless you have a thick rubber case that has an opening barely big enough for the LED itself and use it for very long periods of time and the some.


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## mzil (Jan 11, 2014)

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects...t-for-the-iphone-4-4s-and-5/widget/video.html

I'd have little interest in this exact unit. But the concept of having control, regulation, battery monitoring, from a cellphone intrigues me as having good potential. It should be cordless through blutooth if one wants .

"Siri, what's the outboard LED's temperature? What's the brightness level? How many more minutes can I run this brightness at? What if I change to 100%? How many minutes can I use my cell if I dock to the outboard light as an emergency battery charger? Send all my incoming calls to VM when illuminated above 50 OTF lumens. Synch outboard light to main camera's light as a "side fill" light to reduce shadows. Turn on camera's colorimeter and check white balance. Change to 6500 degrees K for video and disengage PWM...

Light up my roof and if I don't contact you within 20 minutes, call 911 and start flashing SOS. I slipped off the ladder!"


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## Swedpat (Jan 11, 2014)

Even if it's not bad to have a light built in the mobile phone it will never replace a real flashlight. That's my conviction.


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## Skimo (Jan 12, 2014)

A real flashlight? 

Used My phone as a flashlight more often, it's in my back pocket, it has adjustable brightness and for most things either I want a lot of lumens/lux or very little.

The one down side of a phone light is when I've had to go into secured areas, but the worst part is losing continuity between analog and digital records, loss of easily portable digital manuals, loss of photographic records for troubleshooting etc. 

I'm not a contractor working in secured areas anymore, so having a light is as easy as knowing what job I'm going to do and bring whatever tools I need/want. For emergency use, maybe, just maybe there would be a scenario or two where a regular pocket light would be better.


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## braddy (Jan 12, 2014)

> so having a light is as easy as knowing what job I'm going to do and bring whatever tools I need/want. For emergency use, maybe, just maybe there would be a scenario or two where a regular pocket light would be better.



If I always knew when to have a flashlight in advance I wouldn't edc one either, but I carry one for the unforeseen times and situations where I want one, and especially for when I need one.

As far as a phone light being just about as good as a carefully chosen edc light, well, I can't imagine all those threads about the durability, waterproofness, lumens, battery run time, how easy they are to hold while changing a tire and working on the car, drop rating, throw, etc. about our choices in edc lights, reaching the conclusion that a cell phone is an adequate choice to fill our emergency needs.

Cell phones aren't even waterproof are they?


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## mzil (Jan 12, 2014)

Some cell phones are waterproof but most aren't. I carry a "snack size" zip lock bag*, rolled into a tight cylinder and bound with a rubber band, stuffed at the bottom of my pants pocket, so I have a raincoat for my iphone on hand whenever I need it. Since it is clear, the phone and light are still fully functional, even when encased in the bag. I have used it on more than one occasion and recommend the practice to all. Electronics of any kind should never be used in the rain, normally, even though I see people using cellphones that way all the time.

*"snack size" is like a half width sandwich sized one, just right to carry a phone in a case.


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## braddy (Jan 12, 2014)

You edc a sandwich bag and a rubber band?

I carry a plastic bag (for carrying water in) when I am camping or hiking and wearing my micro SERE kit, but not in normal life.


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## idleprocess (Jan 12, 2014)

braddy said:


> You edc a sandwich bag and a rubber band?
> 
> I carry a plastic bag (for carrying water in) when I am camping or hiking and wearing my micro SERE kit, but not in normal life.


Depending on where you live, getting rained on may happen regularly. Since phones are important pieces of electronics that many of us depend on, it makes sense for some.


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## CounterAttack (Jan 12, 2014)

Well, flashlight apps are just piggy backing off of old ideas, my old cell-phone before flip but with color screen had a small LED on the top right corner and I could activate it momentarily or have it constant on. Then I switched to my flip phone and missed it. But I would say no to your post because your mileage would vary depending on what LED or battery you have on your phone. Also that phone light would only be good for up a few feet. But it is useful as a back up.


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## braddy (Jan 13, 2014)

idleprocess said:


> Depending on where you live, getting rained on may happen regularly. Since phones are important pieces of electronics that many of us depend on, it makes sense for some.



Getting my billfold and watch and phone, soaked in the rain during my normal city life, has never come up in my lifetime.


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## Etsu (Jan 13, 2014)

braddy said:


> You edc a sandwich bag and a rubber band?



Yeah, I had to laugh at that. Won't EDC a flashlight, because the smart phone + sandwich bag + rubber band is so much more practical!


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## mzil (Jan 13, 2014)

braddy said:


> You edc a sandwich bag and a rubber band?


Yes. It takes up almost no space, weighs next to nothing, and has proven track record of coming in handy.


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## mzil (Jan 13, 2014)

Etsu said:


> Yeah, I had to laugh at that. Won't EDC a flashlight, because the smart phone + sandwich bag + rubber band is so much more practical!



Antagonism noted.


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## TMedina (Jan 13, 2014)

braddy said:


> Getting my billfold and watch and phone, soaked in the rain during my normal city life, has never come up in my lifetime.



Living in Portland and walking a lot means I've come close now and again, but never actually soaked.

That said, if I ever upgrade to a smart phone, I'm definitely getting a Pelican case for it.


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## braddy (Jan 13, 2014)

I've lived all over the country, including Olympia, Washington and growing up in Houston Texas which gets massive downpours, but I never had to waterproof the things I carry in my pockets during routine city living, because I sometimes become totally soaked through and through.


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## idleprocess (Jan 13, 2014)

braddy said:


> Getting my billfold and watch and phone, soaked in the rain during my normal city life, has never come up in my lifetime.


I've never truly needed an IP68 rated, long-throwing EDC flashlight either, living in the city. Before the two different 1xAAA lights I've carried, coin-cell keychain lights were more than sufficient the times I truly needed a flashlight.


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## braddy (Jan 13, 2014)

I carry an LD01, I have gifted many E01s, I recommend that people carry a waterproof, indestructible, flashlight with long battery life, and use the phone for it's purpose and maximize it's battery life for use in an emergency.

Not only can it be used in the rain, but it is good for earthquakes, and major blackouts, where you may need hours of light to get home, and desperately want your phone at the same time.

I am wired to not want to waste my phone, at the very time that it needs to be preserved.


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## m1ke (Jan 14, 2014)

braddy said:


> You edc a sandwich bag and a rubber band?


Of course. There's a whole community of enthusiasts with forums and everything (rather like this place). And of course you can buy hyper-expensive specialized brands of sandwich baggies and rubber bands.


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## Etsu (Jan 14, 2014)

m1ke said:


> Of course. There's a whole community of enthusiasts with forums and everything (rather like this place). And of course you can buy hyper-expensive specialized brands of sandwich baggies and rubber bands.



If it's for an iPhone, I'm sure Apple would sell you a sandwich bag and a rubber band for about $50. Call it iBag or something. They'd make a fortune selling it to hipsters.


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## mzil (Jan 14, 2014)

delete post please


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## mzil (Jan 14, 2014)

delete post


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## mzil (Jan 14, 2014)

I doubt my zip-lock bag is good to 200ft submersion, but all I care about is _rain._ [Plus mine was essentially free]:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TlwaoFskMw

[I've used this method since before this company was even on the market, BTW.]


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## idleprocess (Jan 14, 2014)

m1ke said:


> Of course. There's a whole community of enthusiasts with forums and everything (rather like this place). And of course you can buy hyper-expensive specialized brands of sandwich baggies and rubber bands.





Etsu said:


> If it's for an iPhone, I'm sure Apple would sell you a sandwich bag and a rubber band for about $50. Call it iBag or something. They'd make a fortune selling it to hipsters.



Prices and features appear to be all over the map for purpose-built bags, although sub-$20 is common.


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## Cataract (Jan 14, 2014)

You guys can laugh at sandwich bags, and I agree that it is mostly much useless in the city unless you're going to place a call during a thunderstorm, but a sandwich bag saved my phone from a capsize in a kayak 2 summers ago. I sure was glad I put it in there. I wasn't worried about my flashlights, though...

When I changed for an iPhone I did get a "lifeproof" protector for it, though. Only using it for hiking and kayaking, but my backup of the backup of the backup of the backup light is now at least ipx8 (when I use the protector, that is) To top that off, I got a waterproof bag for boating, so it now definitely _can_ exceed IPX8


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## Skimo (Jan 14, 2014)

braddy said:


> If I always knew when to have a flashlight in advance I wouldn't edc one either, but I carry one for the unforeseen times and situations where I want one, and especially for when I need one.
> 
> As far as a phone light being just about as good as a carefully chosen edc light, well, I can't imagine all those threads about the durability, waterproofness, lumens, battery run time, how easy they are to hold while changing a tire and working on the car, drop rating, throw, etc. about our choices in edc lights, reaching the conclusion that a cell phone is an adequate choice to fill our emergency needs.
> 
> Cell phones aren't even waterproof are they?



Need is a strong word, a quick trip into a mine with a Bic lighter will show all you need is a spark every second or so, would I need a flashlight to change a tire or would the light from my phone be enough? Phone would be enough. Would my phone be bright enough to navigate out of a mall in a blackout? Yes. Can I throw my phone at a wall and then toss it in a barrel of water? No. Plenty of flashlights couldn't handle that either.

I like light, I see lights as great tools and if I worked where I needed an explosion proof light, I'd carry one. I don't, I keep a couple in the vehicle, one in the bathroom and a few around the house.

I'm a knife fanatic but I don't always carry the best knives with the best lock, sometimes I carry one of my crappy old lock less knives because being a snob doesn't help get the job done, my good knives are arguably better in every sense but it's not always about having the best for what I toss in my pockets, it's just about having something to work with IF I do actually need to do something that I haven't planned for. In an actual emergency whatever I have is going to get used and or abused, it's a 50/50 for day or night add on to that electricity being on or off possibility of needing a light, possibility of needing to see far away and the possibility of needing to see far away for extended periods of time.... Pretty low odds that my horribly inappropriate phone light won't be enough. We all prepare differently, I choose to not fixate too much on the tool unless it's something that's likely to occur. I toss my phone into a baggie when I'm on the water too, no specially made dry bag for me. 

When out with my kids I bring water and food and changes of clothes, wet wipes and an assortment of things I've learned are likely to be used and don't bulk up or weigh down my backpack, we used to carry everything but the kitchen sink. I'm not saying I'm better than you, just that sometimes it's knowing when you as an individual have enough, I won't fault someone for carrying or not carrying anything. If this phone didn't have a light and I didn't have a rechargable USB power source I'd probably carry a photon on my keychain. 

Long post, tldr, relax.


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## braddy (Jan 14, 2014)

I hope it isn't raining when you get that flat, or your car breakdown with the kids in a remote area at night, and you need both a few hours of light, and want to have your cell phone usable at the same time.


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## Etsu (Jan 15, 2014)

Skimo said:


> a quick trip into a mine with a Bic lighter will show all you need is a spark every second or so



Nothing like walking around in a coal mine, flicking your lighter every few seconds, to keep living life on the edge.


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## mzil (Jan 15, 2014)

braddy said:


> I hope it isn't raining when you get that flat, or your car breakdown with the kids in a remote area at night, and you need both a few hours of light, and want to have your cell phone usable at the same time.



FUD


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## Goldwrap (Jan 15, 2014)

My phone is a Casio Ravine 2 which is a ruggedized, waterproof phone in the "Gzone" series. It actually has a dedicated button to turn the LED on and off, complete with a little light bulb icon. In a way it seems like flashlights are getting more like computers on the one end (electronic drivers, switches, indicators, etc) and phones are becoming more like real flashlights on the other. At some point I assume we'll end up with a programmable flashlight that has a small HD screen on it and can make phone calls.


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## Random Dan (Jan 15, 2014)

I've had too many things ruined by leaky zip-locs to trust them against water anymore. I do have a dry bag for my phone, but it's a little bulky for pocket carry.


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## alpg88 (Jan 15, 2014)

ziplocks are great, assuming you close them right, even a hair on the edge that locks will brakie seal. not to mention bread crums, i have used such bag many times. sometimes i put phone in such bag and take it with me in the shower, in cases i expect a call, and don't wanna miss it, never had one leak, yet


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## Etsu (Jan 15, 2014)

alpg88 said:


> ziplocks are great, assuming you close them right, even a hair on the edge that locks will brakie seal. not to mention bread crums, i have used such bag many times. sometimes i put phone in such bag and take it with me in the shower, in cases i expect a call, and don't wanna miss it, never had one leak, yet



If I call someone, here are the places I *don't* want him to answer:

1. On the road, while driving.
2. Hanging off the edge of a cliff, while rock climbing.
3. In bed, while, well... you know...
4. On the toilet.

and now, I have to add:

5. In the shower.


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## alpg88 (Jan 15, 2014)

lol, you may not want, but you don't know what they do at the time.


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## Skimo (Jan 15, 2014)

Etsu said:


> Nothing like walking around in a coal mine, flicking your lighter every few seconds, to keep living life on the edge.



Gold mine. : )



Goldwrap said:


> My phone is a Casio Ravine 2 which is a ruggedized, waterproof phone in the "Gzone" series. It actually has a dedicated button to turn the LED on and off, complete with a little light bulb icon. In a way it seems like flashlights are getting more like computers on the one end (electronic drivers, switches, indicators, etc) and phones are becoming more like real flashlights on the other. At some point I assume we'll end up with a programmable flashlight that has a small HD screen on it and can make phone calls.



I would love that, heck, I'd settle for a light I can plug into my computer not just to charge, but to choose modes from as well, be able to set PWM frequency, output, time counting flashes, voltage flashes and probably some really neat stuff I haven't even thought of. I'd love to see more control of the LED on my phone through an app instead of just basic flash speed and minimal dimming.


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## braddy (Jan 16, 2014)

mzil said:


> FUD



We are people who value good flashlights and most of us edc one even if we have a phone, check out the threads, lighting is quite a topic here.


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## nbp (Jan 16, 2014)

braddy said:


> ....check out the threads, lighting is quite a topic here.




Classic. :laughing:


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## mzil (Jan 16, 2014)

braddy said:


> We are people who value good flashlights and most of us edc one even if we have a phone, check out the threads, lighting is quite a topic here.


I know. I've been here longer than you and I carry an EDC flashlight (in addition to my phone) pretty much every single day, despite dismissive (yet amusingly erroneous) posts by others here attempting to paint quite a different picture:



> Yeah, I had to laugh at that. Won't EDC a flashlight, because the smart phone + sandwich bag + rubber band is so much more practical!



I don't, however, ridicule others here who feel differently than myself and seem to contemplate carrying a phone by itself on some occasions, nor do I feel the additional need to then shame them with fear, uncertainty, and doubt [FUD], implying the very safety of their kids may be at stake:



> I hope it isn't raining when you get that flat, or your car breakdown with the kids in a remote area at night, and you need both a few hours of light, and want to have your cell phone usable at the same time



And BTW, for what it's worth, my phone's flashlight _will _work simultaneously to talking on it (although obviously I can't speak to all cellphones but mine is quite common). It also has a very good battery level indicator, accurate to a single percent unit (which no flashlight I am aware of, or at least own, does) so it actually gives a better feeling for how much juice is left (allowing one to better allocate multi-function usage, including during a car emergency scenario), than any other flashlight in my arsenal. Just sayin'.


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## Etsu (Jan 16, 2014)

mzil said:


> And BTW, for what it's worth, my phone's flashlight _will _work simultaneously to talking on it (although obviously I can't speak to all cellphones but mine is quite common). It also has a very good battery level indicator, accurate to a single percent unit (which no flashlight I am aware of, or at least own, does) so it actually gives a better feeling for how much juice is left (allowing one to better allocate multi-function usage, including during a car emergency scenario), than any other flashlight in my arsenal. Just sayin'.



Ya know, it's really okay to keep a flashlight in your car glove box, just in case. Or, a spare cell phone, if you really prefer that format.


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## mzil (Jan 16, 2014)

Etsu said:


> Ya know, it's really okay to keep a flashlight in your car glove box, just in case. Or, a spare cell phone, if you really prefer that format.


Just one? Both me and that poster he was addressing carry several flashlights there:


> I like light, I see lights as great tools and ... I keep a couple in the vehicle...


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## braddy (Jan 16, 2014)

Talking about the advancement and coolness of having a second rate but usable light on your phone is one thing, but you might be taking this a little too seriously, talking about fear and feeling that people are trying to shame you or talk about your kids, by the way, I wasn't talking about your phone not showing light when you are talking, I was pointing out that when someone is in an emergency that might go into the next day, that they might not want to use up their phone by using it as a light.

The phone light is a nice thing and helpful, but it is hardly going to equal our flashlights. 

Personally, I am giving up my cell phone entirely, I'm done with having to cart around a telephone.


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## mzil (Jan 16, 2014)

braddy said:


> .. but you might be taking this a little too seriously, talking about fear and feeling that people are trying to shame *you* or talk about *your* kids..


[emphasis (bolding of text) mine]

Huh? Me? Re-read the last page. Your FUD post, which cautioned against changing flats/having a breakdown, in a remote area, at night, during rain, with kids in the car, was clearly directed at Skimo's post #255, not one of mine. 



braddy said:


> I hope it isn't raining when you get that flat, or your car breakdown with the kids in a remote area at night, and you need both a few hours of light, and want to have your cell phone usable at the same time.


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## braddy (Jan 16, 2014)

Yeah, that is a normal description of a flashlight situation, car, breakdown, night, family.


You need to relax and quit taking everything as a war of some kind and getting into creepy territory, you are starting to get overly emotional on this and personalizing it.


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## bluemax_1 (Jan 16, 2014)

braddy said:


> I was pointing out that when someone is in an emergency that might go into the next day, that they might not want to use up their phone by using it as a light.


Precisely. As my recent experience in this post below demonstrated

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...a-flashlight&p=4346689&viewfull=1#post4346689


Max


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## braddy (Jan 16, 2014)

Great description of your situation

My son lives in NYC and years ago I sent him an E01, if he ever becomes interested in more,I will send him something better, but at least the E01 is a good light to be caught with on an elevator when the city is shut down.

Personally I carry the LD01 with 27 hours at 3 lumens on my key chain, and a PD35. If I was a gentleman dresser, I would still carry a keychain AAA with long run time.

I think a lot of us are pro-active and helpful people, we carry not just for ourselves, but to be able to help.


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## mzil (Jan 16, 2014)

If only cellphones running apps had some sort of gauge on them to warn users how much battey power was left on their existing charge, you know, like most of our flashlights have, then users could inspect it to better assess what functions they should conserve, might there be an emergency with no means to recharge from a cigarette lighter, AC, USB port, battery pack, etc. Hmm...

Well, here's hopping they come up with that, maybe some day.


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## braddy (Jan 16, 2014)

I think that most of us are not so much interested in measuring how much we are wasting our phone battery during an emergency, or situation, while using it as a flashlight, as we are in not weakening it at all unnecessarily, especially to get merely an inferior light that might not even be helpful under many conditions, such as wet.

It is cool that we can use it for short shots, but it sure isn't going to replace our flashlights.

Being unprepared or under equipped in lighting emergencies, just goes against the grain of most of us here, I think.


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## mzil (Jan 16, 2014)

> It is cool that we can use it for short shots, but it sure isn't going to replace our flashlights.


 _Ever,_ since having one device means you actually have "none" (according to the saying), or you mean current cellphones in 2014?


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## braddy (Jan 17, 2014)

Well I won't be owning a cell phone within a month or two, but if cell phones replace flashlights in the future, then it will probably get posted here at CPF, and we will be able to read about it.


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## mzil (Jan 17, 2014)

Spock: "Captain, I have nearly perfected the all-encompassing, rugged, universal electronic device I call a 'Tri-corder' ".
Kirk: "Excellent, Spock, but what exactly does a tricorder do?"
Spock: "It has apps for everything one could imagine. It can scan and analyze any form of energy or matter, emit any form of electromagnetic radiation, including light, and it can send and receive any form of data, much like our communicators do with voice data. In fact, once I get the design small enough we will no longer need to carry separate communicators, phasers, or flashlights since is will be just as small."
Kirk: "But what if you use up the battery? Or it falls to the bottom of a lake? Then I won't be able to call Scotty to beam me out of a tricky situation. Relying on your tricorder device sounds very dangerous to me."
Spock: "Those exact same issues beset any electronic tool, including your beloved flashlight and communicator: you might lose them unexpectedly and when operated the battery goes down. If this is a cause for worry, the simple solution is to carry as many backup tricorders as you deem necessary."
Kirk: "But then I'll have to lug around three different bulky boxes. Can't you fix that, Spock?"
Spock: *face palm*


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## Etsu (Jan 17, 2014)

I never once saw Spock use his tri-corder as a flashlight. Maybe he had an app for it, but knew it was a stupid thing that only Klingons would do.


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## mzil (Jan 17, 2014)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zei9HpygMN4 

tricorder and communicator apps, some Star Trek sanctioned, some not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9oNDbm9GXo

There seems to be a few out there


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## TMedina (Jan 17, 2014)

http://www.kgw.com/news/Multnomah-Sheriffs-walking-stranded-hikers-out-from-trail-240695341.html

If only they had flashlight apps on their phones!


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## braddy (Jan 17, 2014)

mzil said:


> Spock: "Captain, I have nearly perfected the all-encompassing, rugged, universal electronic device I call a 'Tri-corder' ".
> Kirk: "Excellent, Spock, but what exactly does a tricorder do?"
> Spock: "It has apps for everything one could imagine. It can scan and analyze any form of energy or matter, emit any form of electromagnetic radiation, including light, and it can send and receive any form of data, much like our communicators do with voice data. In fact, once I get it small enough we will no longer need to carry separate communicators, phasers, or flashlights since is will be just as small."
> Kirk: "But what if the battery dies? Or it falls to the bottom of a lake? Then I wont be able to call Scotty to beam me out of a tricky situation. Relying on your tricorder device sounds very dangerous to me."
> ...



Wow, you joined a flashlight forum to promote cell phones?

You want to pretend that "Those exact same issues beset any electronic tool, including your beloved flashlight", which is ridiculous, even my little AAA key chain light runs up to 27 hours and can be used in the rain all day long, with a better beam and is ergonomically right for it's purpose, it fits in my mouth better, or in a modified headband, it is bullet proof tough, and it drains zero juice from my cell phone.

I really would not want to be using up my phone in an emergency by wasting it as a second rate flashlight, if you don't want to carry a flashlight, then don't, but you don't need to pretend that the people here who carry both, are overlooking something in their phone that they don't know about, have not evaluated.

I carry a knife, it is a self defense tool, but it will never replace my pistol, I don't edc a sandwich bag though.


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## wjv (Jan 17, 2014)

Earlier this year I went to the Ape caves in WA State.

The hike took over 2 hours. Probably closer to 3 hours.

I had many flashlights with me. . . 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?368896-Got-to-try-out-my-lights-in-a-REAL-cave

As i pointed out in that thread, I actually saw some people using the LED on their phones as their ONLY flashlight. :huh:

I think there was at least one person who was just using their iPhone screen as a light. Has anybody ever done a lightbox test on an iPhone and estimated the lumen output and run time?


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## braddy (Jan 17, 2014)

A second rate light in good weather is nice to have if you don't have an actual flashlight, but I would prefer to be using up my cell phone once I was back at my car in the parking lot, not during hiking and caving.

During an emergency or situation, or at the start of a hike or an elevator stoppage, or city wide blackout, or a car breakdown or whatever, I see the value of the phone as being a phone, a lifeline, if I wasn't a CPF guy, and it was all I had, then I would want to ration it and protect it, put it in my EDC Sandwich Bag if I needed it in the rain.


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## mzil (Jan 17, 2014)

braddy said:


> Wow, you joined a flashlight forum to promote cell phones?



Nope, but unlike you, I think the two can comfortably coexist and I'm not threatened by advancements in one technology (or the other) and like discussing them here . 

I also think how things will be in 5-10 years will be very different than how they are now.


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## mzil (Jan 17, 2014)

braddy said:


> if you don't want to carry a flashlight, then don't, but you don't need to pretend that the people here who carry both..


"the people"? How many times must I correct you on this point? I carry both.


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## mzil (Jan 17, 2014)

wjv said:


> Has anybody ever done a lightbox test on an iPhone and estimated the lumen output and run time?



..and had the courage to post a thread about it here, considering the huge amount of hostility against this "second rate", primitive, family-endangering technology, a certain segment here feels compelled to trash at every single opportunity? The answer is "No".


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## LGT (Jan 17, 2014)

Wouldn't mind seeing this thread come to an end. Seems to have run its productive course. I guess I could just stop reading it, but it's turned into a car wreck, just can't look away.


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## Skimo (Jan 17, 2014)

I had a long winded post, I'll try to keep it shorter this time.

Phone with a flashlight is still a flashlight. I don't see the need to carry another light because it's only job is to be a light.


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## Goldwrap (Jan 17, 2014)

Maybe it's just me, but if I see someone continually waving their phone around as a flashlight I get the same kind of feeling as when I see people holding up a huge iPad to take pictures.


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## braddy (Jan 17, 2014)

mzil said:


> Nope, but unlike you, I think the two can comfortably coexist and I'm not threatened by advancements in one technology (or the other) and like discussing them here .
> 
> I also think how things will be in 5-10 years will be very different than how they are now.




You do keep trying to personalize the thread, I'm not surprised that you now are describing people as "threatened" who have a different view than you on a cell phone replacing our lights.

Since you edc a flashlight light because your cell phone can't meet your flashlight needs, that supports what many of us here are saying, so it is hard to figure the level of animosity being shown.


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## donovansn585 (Jan 18, 2014)

No not bright enough or tough enough works in a pinch but that's it.


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## Etsu (Jan 18, 2014)

braddy said:


> You do keep trying to personalize the thread, I'm not surprised that you now are describing people as "threatened" who have a different view than you on a cell phone replacing our lights.
> 
> Since you edc a flashlight light because your cell phone can't meet your flashlight needs, that supports what many of us here are saying, so it is hard to figure the level of animosity being shown.



Maybe because he thinks of it as a flashlight that can make phone calls, which is way cooler than a cell phone that can shine a light. I think most of us view cell phone lights as the latter, which is why we're not impressed.


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## jorn (Jan 18, 2014)

Phones lack lux. It's designed to be a camera flash, so it wont conentrate any lumens into more lux. Ever.. No matter how many lumens the future will bring. Pictures will look funky with a hotspot in the middle of the flash. It will always be pure flood.. with bad heatsinking.. I have used the phone as a flashlight for a "emergency" one time. A 2 hours walk down from a mountain a foggy rainy night. I used my keychain aaa light, far superior to the phone. But there was this dude that did'nt have anything, so he borrowed my phone as a flashlight to light his steps. Worked, but he did'nt even try to shield it from the rain, so it was soaked when we arrived to the cars.. I think it was luck that it suwived, and still was working... Not great if you want to be able to call for help if something happens on the way down. I'll pick any of my flashlights over the phone flash app.. any day.


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## dc38 (Jan 18, 2014)

jorn said:


> Phones lack lux. It's designed to be a camera flash, so it wont conentrate any lumens into more lux. Ever.. No matter how many lumens the future will bring. Pictures will look funky with a hotspot in the middle of the flash. It will always be pure flood.. with bad heatsinking.. I have used the phone as a flashlight for a "emergency" one time. A 2 hours walk down from a mountain a foggy rainy night. I used my keychain aaa light, far superior to the phone. But there was this dude that did'nt have anything, so he borrowed my phone as a flashlight to light his steps. Worked, but he did'nt even try to shield it from the rain, so it was soaked when we arrived to the cars.. I think it was luck that it suwived, and still was working... Not great if you want to be able to call for help if something happens on the way down. I'll pick any of my flashlights over the phone flash app.. any day.



It's like being "Jack of all trades, master of none" Granted, a phone is like a multitool, but sometimes fails to perform any one task excellently because one task interferes with another. A heatsink would be too large to fit into a plastic or glass case. Meanwhile, hermatically sealing a phone is night impossible because of the microphone and speaker. At the same time, the LED's cannot be too powerful, as tey'll either overheat the phone or drain the batteries in a matter of an hour or so. Using bigger batteries will just render the phone uncarryable. Most phones are fragile enough to break with one drop ,even when encase in the otterbox; I know because I did so with my outdated EVO. That fragility can't really be addressed, so manufacturers design phones to 'crumple' like cars, thus reducing the amount of impact damage on the phone. This does nothing in favor for the durability of the phone, as it exponentially increases water/element ingress. 

Many aftermarket parts and cases for phones will remedy many of the reliability and durability issues, but at the expense of portability. The electronic leatherman (as I call smartphones and related portable devices) is an awesome tool when protected with some armor, but it becomes quite a bit chunkier than manufacturers originally intended. This means it loses some appeal as a 'fixall' EDC, and many people would rather supplement it with dedicated tools, such as a flashlight or two. Unless phone manufacturers spend the few extra cents to throw some crees or nichias onto the LED array with good thermal and power management, I don't think that flashlights will ever be phased out. 

P.S., the tacticool aspect of lighting: if you're anyone who uses a flashlight in the dark (duh?) the LCD on a phone (even when 'black') will often reduce your night vision even when using the LED's.


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## AnthonyMcEwen2014 (Jan 18, 2014)

We can aruge why which is better all day but I will just say original I was going to say yes a torch is better and yes for flashaholics the phone will be the last thing we use but for Joe public just to see the way or light up something better the phone is fine, but I proved my self wrong just a day or two ago St work, we were logging in computers and could not see a sticker on the back, so my collage says can he have a light, so my othe college says he will get his phone flashlight out , so after some scrabking to get it out of his pocket the first college gives up waiting and trys for his own, so I step I'm, and instantly get out the I3s from my belt clip and have turned it on copyed down the information and moved on to the next computer just as the second collage finaky gets his flashlight on after having to fish it out of his pocket, unlock it Find the app, wait for the app open up and turn on., which my i3s out shone Anyways.

Now they just ask to borrow my flashlight XD! Dont think I converted them but they can certainly see the benefit, I until I told them it was £20....which to us is cheap but when your used to buying a torch from the pound shop yhea....


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jan 18, 2014)

I would have to say the answer is no. 

My heat went out a few days ago and the tech came at night to look at it. He pulls out his phone and uses it as a flashlight inside my furnace. Needless to say I almost LOL'ed. The result of this repair - he shorted out the ignition circuit board and could have caused a fire. 

While I do have doubts of his technical abilities, I do believe adequate lighting may have helped.


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## braddy (Jan 20, 2014)

That is one job that definitely calls for a headlamp.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Jan 21, 2014)

Like a Swiss army knife or multitool, a flashlight app on a smartphone will work in a pinch, but it will always be less practical and less suited for the task than a dedicated tool. If I was ever in a situation where I needed portable illumination, I'd reach for my flashlight, or even a candle, before I'd reached for a smartphone.


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## Jash (Jan 22, 2014)

LGT said:


> Wouldn't mind seeing this thread come to an end. Seems to have run its productive course. I guess I could just stop reading it, but it's turned into a car wreck, just can't look away.



I agree. This is one of the most retarded threads on CPF.


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## Etsu (Jan 22, 2014)

Jash said:


> I agree. This is one of the most retarded threads on CPF.



Best troll thread ever on CPF. I didn't like it at first, but it has grown on me, if just for the amusement value.


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## mzil (Jan 22, 2014)

This article might be of interest to some, even if they don't agree with one particlar entry, or more:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/12/gadgets-the-smartphone-made-obsolete_n_848245.html


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## braddy (Jan 22, 2014)

Your slide show article says that the smart phone made the flashlight obsolete, I doubt that you would be on CPF, if you believed what you posted for us to read.


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## mzil (Jan 22, 2014)

"My" slide show article? How is it "my" slide show article? I didn't write it and I've gone on record in this thread stating that I carry an EDC flashlight(s) [so obviously I hardly consider them "obsolete"] in addition to my phone. Please instead refer to it as "the article you thought some here might find interesting, even though many of us might not agree with all of it" or simply "the article you linked to". 

It is an article clearly written specifically to invoke discussion, thought, and public commentary, as far as I'm concerned, since it has no researched data backing any of the listed entries' actual sales or usage figures. Did you catch this part, which comprises nearly _a third _of the entire written text?:

"Do you agree or disagree with the items on this list? Cast your votes, and tell us in the comments if you still use any of these gadgets, as well as if you think there are other devices smartphones are putting out of business."


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## Jash (Jan 22, 2014)

You know what would be cool? A flashlight that has a phone built into it!


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## mzil (Jan 22, 2014)

Sorry Jash, but I really don't see the cellphone disappearing any time soon because of your weird, concocted device which I assure you will never be. Why would people want one battery operated device to lug around when they could have two, taking up more space and weight in their pockets, both offering only half the functionality of your strange, "Frankenstein" device?

I don't have time to explain it in further detail because my pager just went off so I have to go find a pay phone.


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## Mr Floppy (Jan 22, 2014)

Jash said:


> You know what would be cool? A flashlight that has a phone built into it!


YOu know, someone at Nokia thought that because they do have many phones with a flashlight function. The 1661 is probably one of my favourites, and isn't your standard 5mm LED like some other Nokias with flashlights. I almost think that the 1661 is flashlight first and phone later


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## braddy (Jan 22, 2014)

> mzil-Please instead refer to it as "the article you thought some here might find interesting, even though many of us might not agree with all of it" or simply "the article you linked to".



Gee, I did that, I said "Your slide show article says that the smart phone made the flashlight obsolete", you really need to lighten up and quit taking yourself so seriously.


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## mzil (Jan 22, 2014)

braddy said:


> Your slide show article says ...


[Quoted just incase it get altered later.]


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## braddy (Jan 23, 2014)

You really are trolling and baiting aren't you.


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## 18650 (Jan 23, 2014)

The funny thing about today's smartphones? They're really just tablet computers that happen to have a phone capabilities built in and a surprisingly large number of them don't do the phone part well.


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## Etsu (Jan 23, 2014)

mzil said:


> "My" slide show article? How is it "my" slide show article? I didn't write it and I've gone on record in this thread stating that I carry an EDC flashlight(s) [so obviously I hardly consider them "obsolete"] in addition to my phone. Please instead refer to it as "the article you thought some here might find interesting, even though many of us might not agree with all of it" or simply "the article you linked to".



Okay, I can't resist biting at your trolls.... You seem to spend a lot of time pushing smartphone flashlight apps and sandwich bags as a great flashlight combo that will replace real flashlights, but then when criticized you run back to a safe spot and claim you EDC a real flashlight, blah, blah.

So, which is it? Is a real flashlight going to stick around, or is a tablet + sandwich bags going to replace it and used by night guards everywhere? You sure seem to be pushing the latter.


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## mzil (Jan 23, 2014)

18650 said:


> The funny thing about today's smartphones? They're really just tablet computers that happen to have a phone capabilities built in and a surprisingly large number of them don't do the phone part well.



Stop making astute observations and posting intelligently, as if an adult. Don't you realize smartphones and keychain flashlights (the type the OP clarified this thread was addressing, in post #12 the very first day), fundamentally *can't *coexist, so you must choose a side by childishly trashing/belittling others' view as not being manly?


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## mzil (Jan 23, 2014)

Etsu said:


> Okay, I can't resist biting at your trolls....
> So, which is it? Is a real flashlight going to stick around, or is a tablet + sandwich bags going to replace it and used by night guards everywhere? You sure seem to be pushing the latter.



If you have an interest in discussing night guards, everywhere, using tablets + sandwich bags, start a new thread on it. It's off topic to this one.


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## mzil (Jan 23, 2014)

We have a pot calling the kettle black, by way of off topic red herrings and misdirection.

"In internet slang, a *troll *is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off topic messages..."

-Wikipedia


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## Norm (Jan 23, 2014)

Thread Closed. - Norm


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