# "Lightforce custom" remote mount 240mm blitz 70w hid..



## Fragarach (Oct 1, 2014)

So I have been looking for a weapon light for night shooting, I have vehicle mounts etc.. but I don't like having to track targets with my light offset from my weapon, plus I don't always shoot with mates.
This will be going on a custom bracket off the rail to mount it above the scope...

Lets face it.. its a stupidly large light to be putting on a rifle...
And its going to cost me about $500.
But all the led junkies are telling me that you can't get the level of light I want, at the range I want with led.. 
0.25 lux doesn't really satisfy me safety wise if I'm going to send large peices of lead at high speed. 0.6 seems to be recommended as usable... as such I would like say 0.5lux at 1000m. Which should be more than sufficient for the ranges it will be used at.

So.. Two questions. ? Is this light going to give me what I need ?
Is there something in a similar price point that is going to do it better ?


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## AnAppleSnail (Oct 1, 2014)

The math isn't so hard to work out, to translate from one lux at one range to another lux at another range. All you need is to get the "lux at 1m." This will be the "cd" rating in the ANSI/NEMA FL1 Standard. Here is the new Mini Mag AA.




Icon translation: 140m, 226 lumens, 4880 cd, 2h30m runtime, rain-ok, 1m drop tested. 140m is the range at which we have 0.25 lux. By a happy coincidence, the range that has a given lux count is sqrt(lux(1m) / intensity). In this case, 140m = sqrt(4880/(1/4)) To find the range at which the Mini Mag has 1 lux, we punch in sqrt(4880/1) = 69.9m. You're asking for 0.5 lux at 1000m. That requires (1000m = sqrt(x/(1/2))). Algebra gives me "Range squared x Target Intensity = Lux at 1m," or 500 klux. There are lights that do this, but not many. Give the spot size a sanity check.


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## AnAppleSnail (Oct 2, 2014)

500 kLux light on sale if I'm allowed to cross-link someone's sales thread (I have no connection to them). 500 klux aspheric light thread OneStopThrowShop sells some of the highest-throw LED lights. Pricey and top quality.


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## IlluminatedOne (Oct 4, 2014)

Although there are LED lights which can do 500k lux they will not be able to put the amount of lumens downrange as a 70w HID can nor the throw.

I also feel that with a HID light your getting better colour rendering which makes a difference out in the wild, and a wider spot so more area is covered which reduces tunnel vision and you can be more sure of what your aiming at.

If I am reading right you are going to use a halogen lightforce light and convert it over to HID yourself which should work out cheaper if you do it yourself as its fairly easy to do.

Just to give you a idea of the output of the different lightforce models in relation to there output and size based of lightforce's own figures which i hope are accurate:
http://www.lightforceworld.com.au/lightforce-range.html

The 50w HID 240mm lightforce is rated from the factory at:
50w =1lux at 1600m
2.56millon [email protected]
4000+lumens (my estimate)

I do wonder if you may be fine with the smaller light like the 140mm one as there 35w hid model still is pretty impressive
140mm HID lightforce:
35w =1lux at 600m
360k [email protected]
3000lumens (my estimate)

170mm HID lightforce 
35W =1 lux @ 1050 m
1.1million lux at 1m
50W =1 lux @ 1350 m
1.8million lux at 1m

I would think the 140mm or 170mm light with a 50w or 70w hid kit would be able to do what you need its really down to if you mind the size of the light and how much you wish to spend.
There's no doubt the 240mm light with a 70w hid would throw a long way with a lot of light on target and i think would outclass pretty much every hunting light on the market but may be too bulky to use so a smaller light may still give you enough light at the distance you want.

It may be worth picking up one of those big halogen Thor spotlights and fitting it with the 70w hid kit as a test run, to see how far that throws although they are way to big to fit on a rifle , they have a large 7inch or 9inch reflector and can usually be found for $50 or so, so you can be sure of what size reflector you would need for your setup by observing the results from the cheaper light save you spending money when you don't have too and also gives you a real world example of the output and throw, then you can roughly see if its not enough or more than enough which is hard to do with just numbers.

I managed to get 900klux @1m out of the smaller thor (7inch IIRC) with a 55w ebay hid kit (which is really around 40w to the bulb) around 0.9lux at 1000m which would just fit your needs but you may need more that's why I suggest having a play with a 70w hid kit in a thor as it gives you a real world test in your conditions so you can see if you need more or less without to much outlay.

Hope that helps .


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## japudjuha (Oct 16, 2014)

Just for comparisons sake, the 240 Blitz I have with 90W HID (@ the bulb) puts out 5.11 Million Lux @ 1m.
It really is nutso-bright.
So if you went with the 70w Lightforce it would certainly throw a heck of a long way, but might be too bright for night time use.


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## maxpower1 (Oct 21, 2014)

japudjuha said:


> So if you went with the 70w Lightforce it would certainly throw a heck of a long way, but might be too bright for night time use.



What do you mean about being too bright for night time use? Do you mean it will spook the animals?


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## japudjuha (Oct 23, 2014)

Well when I shine it on a wall 5 or so meters away during the day, I end up seeing spots in my vision for a while. Like if you stare into a normal torch at night.
That plus that it isn't a pure beam like a maxabeam, the spill light is still quite significant at night.

I only mention this because it most likely will not help your night adjusted vision.
You might be fine, and that setup could well be perfect for you. I am just thinking it might be worthy of a test at night to see if its exactly what you want.


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## mcm308 (Oct 23, 2014)

I cant comment on Lightforce HIDs but I had 240 halogens on my truck and they lit up 2 houses 400 yards out. Most impressive lights I have ever seen and will buy. I have 4 140 halogens waiting to go on the front of my jeep. Lightforce reflectors are hands down the best.

I have to ask you this though coming from someone who has shot 1000 yards, Are you really night hunting at 1000 meters??

A smaller unit like the 170 would probably be more then enough.


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## Fragarach (Oct 26, 2014)

No I'm not actually shooting at 1000m.. 
Rifle is zeroed for 500m. Useful out to 800m.
0.6lux on target seems to be minimum recommended for might shooting. Hence 0.5 at 1km. It should give sufficient illumination in usable range.


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## jwoolf (Nov 14, 2014)

Fragarach said:


> No I'm not actually shooting at 1000m..
> Rifle is zeroed for 500m. Useful out to 800m.
> 0.6lux on target seems to be minimum recommended for might shooting. Hence 0.5 at 1km. It should give sufficient illumination in usable range.



I've gotten some lights over the last few years.... Some LED by ven like the tk61vn with over 500kcd and even a maxabeam G2.....

What I would tell you is get a brighter light than you'd expect to need because once you get past 500yds or so, it gets really hard to see. It's hard to see past 500yds in daylight. You're going to need all the help you can afford to get to extreme distance. Good optics help a LOT.

.5 lux won't be enough at 800m.... I'd be targeting 5lux or better at that range... even with the best optics money can buy... ( I use US Optics and Nightforce on my rifles ). I live out in the country and have need for bright lights and have no shortage of places to use them and, what I have found is the more is better.

Don't skimp out and get less than you need if you really want to get to 800m or 1000m.... 

For me... I like the tk61vn for the throw but, out past 500-600yds or so, it tails off... the maxabeam goes much further but, the beam profile is so narrow to get way out there that it makes it hard to scan for game with.

Now, if you get your calculator out a 500kcd light should go much further than 5-600yds but, I'm telling you that if you are using the light for your purpose, that's about what you can expect.

You may, in fact, be putting a lot of light on the target but, it has to reflect back 1000yds for you to see it....

In my humble opinion, the practical use of a light at 1000m would require maxabeam kind of throw along with good light gathering optics to be of any use at that kind of range. You can definately see the maxabeam put a spot on something at 1000m but, you can't tell what it is without optics.

I shoot the 1000yd range all the time... In full sun light, a guy in a brown shirt is hard to even see without optics... Imagine at night time trying to pick out game in the dark.... even with a laser beam light like a maxabeam you have to have binos while you're shining the light out that far.


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## Onestep (Nov 18, 2014)

What caliber rifle? I wonder if those lights will be able to cope with the shock of the recoil....


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## jwoolf (Nov 19, 2014)

You bring a good point, Onestep.

I shoot a 300win mag at the 1000yd range and when I back up from there, I shoot a 375 CheyTac out to about 2000yds or further.

There is NO way I'd attempt to put a light on one of those rifles.... I don't know for sure but, I suspect that anything that will throw 1000yds will not like being beaten up by one of my rifles.... I'm not sure what the OP is shooting, however.... I know my maxabeam doesn't like hard jarring while it is on.... With the kind of recoil generated... even with a muzzle brake, it would probably unseat the bulb even if the light didn't mind the recoil.


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## Echo63 (Nov 28, 2014)

jwoolf said:


> I've gotten some lights over the last few years.... Some LED by ven like the tk61vn with over 500kcd and even a maxabeam
> 
> In my humble opinion, the practical use of a light at 1000m would require maxabeam kind of throw along with good light gathering optics to be of any use at that kind of range. You can definately see the maxabeam put a spot on something at 1000m but, you can't tell what it is without optics.


You guys must be sick of seeing this pic - Gen2 Maxabeam at 1000m (+/-50m) (ushio uxl-75xe bulb in parker VH adapters - 7.2 million cp)
with a decent scope, you would have no trouble seeing at that range with the MB - the needle like spot isnt the greatest for actually searching though.




as for the Lightforce - they started out as a hunting spotlight manufacturer, many many years ago (before every man and his dog had a set on their 4x4) the standard 240mm model with a 100w bulb is supposed to be between 750,000cp and 1million cp (depending on bulb, axial filament has higher cp, transvers filament has bigger hotspot, lower cp
70w hid might be overkill (but should throw a nice spot a long way)


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## Fusion_m8 (Nov 28, 2014)

The hotel guests at the old Burswood Casino Resort will not be happy....


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## Echo63 (Nov 29, 2014)

Fusion_m8 said:


> The hotel guests at the old Burswood Casino Resort will not be happy....


Its Crown Metropol now !

if you know the area, the pics were taken from the other side of the river, near gloucester park !


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## Mr. Tone (Dec 12, 2014)

japudjuha said:


> Just for comparisons sake, the 240 Blitz I have with 90W HID (@ the bulb) puts out 5.11 Million Lux @ 1m.
> It really is nutso-bright.
> So if you went with the 70w Lightforce it would certainly throw a heck of a long way, but might be too bright for night time use.



That's fantastic!


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