# Led Lenser P7.2 pics & thoughts



## TCY (Nov 3, 2013)

Hello everyone
Since I don't have the equipment nor the knowledge to write an actual review, and there is not a thread about the light including beamshots on the internet that I know of, I thought I could come up with this to help those who are interested in this neat little P7.2.
As English is not my native language, and I'm certainly not good at it, my apologies. 
Pic heavy..



Some specs:
 I believe the body material is type II anodized with a thickness of 20 micron. 1M impact resistant
Brightness (Boost)320 lumensBrightness (High)250 lumensBrightness (Low)40 lumensBurn Time (Boost)2 hoursBurn Time (High)4 hoursBurn Time (Low)50 hoursBeam Range (Boost)260 mBeam Range (High)220 mBeam Range (Low)100 mLength130 mmWeight175 gDiameter (head)37 mmDiameter (body)29.5 mmBatteries4 x AAAWater resistanceIPX4 






My p7.2 came in a nice gift box, but i accidently ruined a corner of it as you can see.

The light is well built, from both the looks of it and the feel in your palm.























































Size comparison: Maglite XL50, Led Lenser P7.2, Energizer 2 D-CELL





Beamshot comparison:
XL50, 2M






Led Lenser P7.2, 2M






Please note that the beams are much brighter in the reality. In low mode both the XL50(25 lumens) and p7.2(40 lumens) project very useful beam. Turns out that I'm also a newbie in the world of photography..photos were taken using a Canon sx210 IS, with default settings.

Led Lenser p7.2-flood, boost, 320 lumens




High, 250 lumens




Low, 40 lumens






throw, boost, 320 lumens, 20M 




high, 250 lumens, 20M




Low, 40 lumens, 20M





flood, boost, 320 lumens, 3M




high, 250 lumens, 3M




low, 40 lumens, 3M





throw, boost, 320 lumens, 3M




high, 250 lumens, 3M





low, 40 lumens, 3M





Maglite XL50- high, 104 lumens, 3M




low, 25 lumens, 3M




Xl50, high, 104 lumens, 40M




low, 25 lumens, 40M





P7.2, throw, boost, 320 lumens, 40M




throw, high, 250 lumens, 40M




throw, low, 40 lumens, 40M





Maglite XL50 (left, high, 104 lumens) and p7.2(right, boost, 320 lumens)





The one thing I like about p7.2 is its neutural white tint, especially in throwy focusing mode. Looks almost identical to sunlight. On the other hand, XL50 has a cool white tint, which I don't find very appealing.

pros:
great focusing system(AFS)
looks cool
well built
lanyard
tailstand
AAA (relatively cheap and easy to source)
large tail switch, easy to operate with gloves on

cons:
not type III HA
not regulated
no throw&spill at the same time
AAA (relatively "bad" power source compared to 18650, CR123 etc)
Led Lenser forbids users to put anything but alkaline cells into the light for circuit and LED protection (many people put ni-mh and lithium cells into it with no problem at all though.)
not IPX-8






Overall, LL p7.2 is a well built light, more than enough for "normal" people. It delivers great lumen output for general household use, and is a nice choice as a workhorse flashlight with easy to replace AAA cells. However, for flashaholics who needs their lights available in perfect condition whenever they want with regulated circuit, full water-proofness and stunning lumen output achieved by appropriate power source , p7.2 is probably not good enough. But if you want a little light with a cool focus system to impress your "normal" friends, this is the light to go.


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## Vesper (Nov 3, 2013)

Thanks. Nice set of photos. I am a fan of LL lights. Love the flood to throw option - very versatile.


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## mcnair55 (Nov 3, 2013)

I am a fan of Led Lenser but if a non flashaholic was thinking of buying one i would say do not waste your money and buy something better.The deal breaker for me is the lack of regulation and i am constantly walking away from these lights when sometimes i am finding them on offer at 25% of retail in the trade stores.


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## ven (Nov 3, 2013)

Many thanks for pics:thumbsup: i am a fan of lensers too,in fact my daily use in work is a t7 and when i decide a change i have been weighing this p7.2 up.9P14 just a tad too big for pocketing/ease of use. I get free batteries in work so thats no issue,also like the size of light in hand(t7),zoom is very handy too for me.See they have not addressed any anti roll still without using wrist strap to hold it(not ideal).
Cost is a down side,but i have had more than my moneys worth so far with t7.....water proof no issue as no water in work to drop it in.Lenser could have done III HA this time around as i find the II a little on soft side when dropped.


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## TCY (Nov 3, 2013)

ven said:


> Many thanks for pics:thumbsup: i am a fan of lensers too,in fact my daily use in work is a t7 and when i decide a change i have been weighing this p7.2 up.9P14 just a tad too big for pocketing/ease of use. I get free batteries in work so thats no issue,also like the size of light in hand(t7),zoom is very handy too for me.See they have not addressed any anti roll still without using wrist strap to hold it(not ideal).
> Cost is a down side,but i have had more than my moneys worth so far with t7.....water proof no issue as no water in work to drop it in.Lenser could have done III HA this time around as i find the II a little on soft side when dropped.



I agree. No Type III HA, resistor based direct drive circuit and the price tag are things that drive flashaholics away from LL lights. And they do roll like wheels

LL F1 has all the flashaholic properties though, but its burntime is pathetic from what i read from posts.


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## TCY (Nov 3, 2013)

mcnair55 said:


> I am a fan of Led Lenser but if a non flashaholic was thinking of buying one i would say do not waste your money and buy something better.The deal breaker for me is the lack of regulation and i am constantly walking away from these lights when sometimes i am finding them on offer at 25% of retail in the trade stores.



For all we know non flashaholics don't even know brands like Fenix and SureFire, they tend to think Maglites are miracles like i used to


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## TCY (Nov 3, 2013)

Vesper said:


> Thanks. Nice set of photos. I am a fan of LL lights. Love the flood to throw option - very versatile.



Agreed. I went out with non flashaholic friends last light with my p7.2, they were so impressed they kept playing with it for 20 minutes, and they yelled HOLY CRAP I WANT ONE right after they discovered the focusing system hehe.


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## mcnair55 (Nov 3, 2013)

TCY said:


> For all we know non flashaholics don't even know brands like Fenix and SureFire, they tend to think Maglites are miracles like i used to



Correct they have no idea but the big players in the retail/trade outlets have discovered there is a big market for a decent quality Led light.So today in the UK you can visit most trade stores and Tesco etc and walk out with something decent.I have made it a bit of a game buying these odd ball makes like Refrackta-Defender-Nightsearcher etc and guess what they perform great and cost a few quid compared to brands like Fenix etc.

I still buy the good stuff but still enjoy these cheaper lights and at least if they refuse to work i can easily get my money back but to date no issues.A mate bought 6 Tesco lights on offer for work for the same price as a Led Lenser off the tool vans and believe it or not is still on number one after 2 years,all the black has worn off but works a treat still.


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## TCY (Nov 3, 2013)

mcnair55 said:


> Correct they have no idea but the big players in the retail/trade outlets have discovered there is a big market for a decent quality Led light.So today in the UK you can visit most trade stores and Tesco etc and walk out with something decent.I have made it a bit of a game buying these odd ball makes like Refrackta-Defender-Nightsearcher etc and guess what they perform great and cost a few quid compared to brands like Fenix etc.
> 
> I still buy the good stuff but still enjoy these cheaper lights and at least if they refuse to work i can easily get my money back but to date no issues.A mate bought 6 Tesco lights on offer for work for the same price as a Led Lenser off the tool vans and believe it or not is still on number one after 2 years,all the black has worn off but works a treat still.



If those lights are available almost everywhere that's probably a different story. It seems like nobody cares about good quality flashlights here in Sydney, even someone do they want to scrape every single dough from you. I bought my Maglite XL50 a year ago in a huge retail store and they only had Mags. From what i know XL50 costs something like $25 in the US, but I had to pay 70 AUD for mine..imagine a Fenix PD35 available in this store and they want something like 130 AUD for it. "normal" lights are available in stores like the big Energizer 2 D-cell i got for 35 AUD, but it only gives 74 lumens and has a totally unaccpetable purple tint(i mean HORRIBLE purple tint) and a weird beam pattern, and this is the kind of light general public can get access to effortless in Sydney. If they want something really decent, they will have to pay almost double the price from a retail store, or order it from the UK of somewhere else. Personally i got my p7.2 from a UK dealer, and i believe that's what many flashaholics do here when they want a nice light. (I waited for almost 3 weeks for the light, as AusPost is lazy)


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## jellydonut (Nov 3, 2013)

To be honest I am completely shocked these are still not regulated.

I have also not been impressed with the durability in a working environment. When used as a tool the electronics give up after a relatively short amount of time, especially taking into account the price which is usually horrendously high.

It's unfortunate because I genuinely like the flood/spot function. It's not half as bad as people give it credit for.


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## Jash (Nov 3, 2013)

TCY said:


> From what i know XL50 costs something like $25 in the US, but I had to pay 70 AUD for mine..imagine a Fenix PD35 available in this store and they want something like 130 AUD for it. "normal" lights are available in stores like the big Energizer 2 D-cell i got for 35 AUD, but it only gives 74 lumens and has a totally unaccpetable purple tint(i mean HORRIBLE purple tint) and a weird beam pattern, and this is the kind of light general public can get access to effortless in Sydney.



Bunnings is beginning to stock Fenix lights at almost the same rate as online stores. So far they only stock the HL10/30 headlamps, but they're $38 and $65 respecively. Granted that's about 30% more than you can buy them from Fenix-Store, but this is instant access to your light. No waiting, no hoping it comes tomorrow or in two weeks. You go in, pay your money and walk out with a decent headlamp. I'd imagine that if the sales of those continue you will see other Fenix lights make their way onto their shelves at competitive rates. 

There are also several online retailers in Australia that sell quality lights at competitive rates. Torchworld is one I have used several times to source lights I want, and when you take into account the time it takes to get stuff from the US, the extra few dollars to have it here in two days is well worth it buying from the local guys. 

**** Smith sell the Varta (Rayovac) Indestrucable lights for a few dollars more than what they pay in the US. You can get the 2xAA version for under $20 with batteries, and it's a half decent light for both the flashaholic and non-flashaholic alike. I've got one of each of the Indestructable series and have found a purpose for them in my collection. If anything, they're great loner lights as people can't break them and they're stupidly easy to use, plus they're cheap enough to replace if they get lost or misplaced.


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## TCY (Nov 3, 2013)

jellydonut said:


> To be honest I am completely shocked these are still not regulated.
> 
> I have also not been impressed with the durability in a working environment. When used as a tool the electronics give up after a relatively short amount of time, especially taking into account the price which is usually horrendously high.
> 
> It's unfortunate because I genuinely like the flood/spot function. It's not half as bad as people give it credit for.


 
I think the M series are regulated lights. P series are..pathetic series 

And yes MANY people like LL's focusing system but end up getting something else because they are not regulated, not waterproof etc.


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## TCY (Nov 3, 2013)

Jash said:


> Bunnings is beginning to stock Fenix lights at almost the same rate as online stores. So far they only stock the HL10/30 headlamps, but they're $38 and $65 respecively. Granted that's about 30% more than you can buy them from Fenix-Store, but this is instant access to your light. No waiting, no hoping it comes tomorrow or in two weeks. You go in, pay your money and walk out with a decent headlamp. I'd imagine that if the sales of those continue you will see other Fenix lights make their way onto their shelves at competitive rates.
> 
> There are also several online retailers in Australia that sell quality lights at competitive rates. Torchworld is one I have used several times to source lights I want, and when you take into account the time it takes to get stuff from the US, the extra few dollars to have it here in two days is well worth it buying from the local guys.
> 
> **** Smith sell the Varta (Rayovac) Indestrucable lights for a few dollars more than what they pay in the US. You can get the 2xAA version for under $20 with batteries, and it's a half decent light for both the flashaholic and non-flashaholic alike. I've got one of each of the Indestructable series and have found a purpose for them in my collection. If anything, they're great loner lights as people can't break them and they're stupidly easy to use, plus they're cheap enough to replace if they get lost or misplaced.



Glad to hear that Bunnings are catching up. I do hope one day Aussies can get instant access to all the decent lights. And i agree that it is better to pay an extra few bucks to get the light you want in one or two days instead of three weeks


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## R_finland (Jan 15, 2014)

Good torch, really wide beam! 

A question regarding the lens. Have you noticed with other lenser models that the lens leaks some light to decoration ring? Is it a drawback from extending the wide end of the zoom, or is it new designed feature to leak some light through lens on the red decoration ring? slight intensity loss can be seen with sealing bounce when zooming. Nevertheless this is by far the widest beam i have seen on lensers


The thing that bothers me is that i assumed 7.2 is not resistor regulated any more, but it still is. Thing that is the most tricky one is how can the led survive as there are zero resistance measured (measured from the cartridge connections that connects to the button) when button is pressed all the way? People do use high end rechargeables on it, like on P7's, and those are well capable of driving destructive current to led. How can it survive?

I took a photo of it. But just can not find a way to attach it here..


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## Mr Floppy (Jan 15, 2014)

R_finland said:


> The thing that bothers me is that i assumed 7.2 is not resistor regulated any more, but it still is. Thing that is the most tricky one is how can the led survive as there are zero resistance measured (measured from the cartridge connections that connects to the button) when button is pressed all the way? People do use high end rechargeables on it, like on P7's, and those are well capable of driving destructive current to led. How can it survive?
> 
> I took a photo of it. But just can not find a way to attach it here..



Try hosting the photo on a site like postimage. 

I don't think it is a good idea to drive the LED without a resistor even when you take into account the internal resistance of alkaline batteries. Perhaps there is resistance along the circuit somewhere. In the wires going to LED maybe? What was the resistance for all the other modes?


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## R_finland (Jan 16, 2014)

Hi Floppy

Measured resistances were 1.8 and 24.5. Button pressed down it was 0.1 ohms. Next I loaded holder with 1.4A load and got 4 volts to the connector pins (800 mah eneloops perhaps around 3/4 charged). I'm not sure what is the led exactly that P7.2 uses. What i searched from Cree's datasheets i think it is 1,5A/3.1V (continuous/hot) rated. Curiosity woke up with this, so need to feed 1A constant current to the led through holder contacts some day and see how many volts will my power supply shows then. 

At least, with eneloops, brightness difference between announced high and boost mode seems not to be so big that my conclusion by far is that led is not being overdriven with eneloops. Actually with freash alkalinens, behaviour seems to be equal.


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## Norm (Jan 16, 2014)

R_finland said:


> I took a photo of it. But just can not find a way to attach it here..



Sticky Posting photos .

Norm


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## Kyle_PL (Jan 16, 2014)

TCY said:


> cons:
> no throw&spill at the same time


Now this is good joke! The biggest problem is, when You are blinded, by to strong throw (bright hot spot), when You are trying to read something from small distance, even at lowest light-power (Fenix E40 have this problem). So ... "*no* throw&spill at the same time" is a* VERY GOOD THING* (because You will be *not blinded *!)



TCY said:


> cons:
> not regulated


Regulated = constant brightness ?
Yes ... brightness is not constant, but there is no any PWM flickering (and this is good), and the accu isn't tortured by high current at the end of energy (stabilizers strongly boost current when the battery is low).

So brightness stabilisation have cons and pros.


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## TCY (Jan 16, 2014)

R_finland said:


> Good torch, really wide beam!
> 
> A question regarding the lens. Have you noticed with other lenser models that the lens leaks some light to decoration ring? Is it a drawback from extending the wide end of the zoom, or is it new designed feature to leak some light through lens on the red decoration ring? slight intensity loss can be seen with sealing bounce when zooming. Nevertheless this is by far the widest beam i have seen on lensers
> 
> ...



Yes P7.2's little red dots on its body do light up a bit when you turn the light on, I reckon it is intended to do so but I do not have any evidence to support it.

For the led toughness issue, Led Lenser warns its customer not to use batteries like ni-mh rechargeables or lithium batts, only non-recharageable alkalines. Before I reveive my P7.2 I did some research around CPF and other forums, and I found out that most direct-drive-based LL lights rely on the steep voltage discharge curve of alkaline batts to prevent overdrive the LED, ie as you alkaline batts get old, (direct drive)LED will be less stressed and works in a more relaxed state. On the other hand, ni-mh rechargeables have 0.3V less initial voltage but a much stabler voltage discharge curve, so your LED will work slightly harder(than alkaline batts powered) as batts drain. Although many LL users report that they put ni-mh rechargeables in their P7 or P-whatever for years without any issue(me too!), I still believe that the voltage discharge difference will cause a certain degree of luminous decay. Besides, I don't think the LED inside P7.2 is fully driven or over driven.

...But that's just me guessing in a VERY non-peorfessional perspective(and I mean it mate, I'm "unenlightened".). I'm not even sure if I'm answering your question or not. Hope it helps though.


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## TCY (Jan 16, 2014)

Kyle_PL said:


> Now this is good joke! The biggest problem is, when You are blinded, by to strong throw (bright hot spot), when You are trying to read something from small distance, even at lowest light-power (Fenix E40 have this problem). So ... "*no* throw&spill at the same time" is a* VERY GOOD THING* (because You will be *not blinded *!)
> 
> Regulated = constant brightness ?
> Yes ... brightness is not constant, but there is no any PWM flickering (and this is good), and the accu isn't tortured by high current at the end of energy (stabilizers strongly boost current when the battery is low).
> ...



Hi,
Honestly before I got my P7.2, like you, I assumed that "only throw/only spill" would be an extremelly good thing on a flashlight and I absolutely adore the idea. However after some real life events I found out that I do need some spill light when I'm "throwing" light on objects, and occasionally I want some throwy beam when observing things around me. The possibility of blind yourself of loss of night vision is one of the reasons I ordered Nitecore P12 over Fenix PD35, as P12 has a 1 lumen firefly mode. But hey, this kind of problem can be easily solved by a diffuser, and it is hardly a problem to many flashlight users out there. That is only my personal preference, and I respect your opinion.

As a person who suffered from constantly dimming incandescent flashlights in childhood, I'm pretty confident to say that electrical regulation is a must have feature in modern LED flashlights, and its pros greatly outweight its cons. But again that is only my personal preference, and I respect your opinion.


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## TCY (Jan 16, 2014)

R_finland said:


> Good torch, really wide beam!
> 
> A question regarding the lens. Have you noticed with other lenser models that the lens leaks some light to decoration ring? Is it a drawback from extending the wide end of the zoom, or is it new designed feature to leak some light through lens on the red decoration ring? slight intensity loss can be seen with sealing bounce when zooming. Nevertheless this is by far the widest beam i have seen on lensers
> 
> ...



One thing I forgot to mention, lens-based flashlights like P7.2 will have some LED lumens wasted in the light redirecting process, and these left over lumens light up the little red dots. Or at least I imagine.


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## Kyle_PL (Jan 16, 2014)

TCY said:


> As a person who suffered from constantly dimming incandescent flashlights in childhood, I'm pretty confident to say that electrical regulation is a must have feature in modern LED flashlights,


I'm using Ni-Mh in LED Lenser P7.2 . Ni-MH have maybe not perfect, but quite flat voltage discharge curve ( flat, rotated "S" ). ... so, this "constantly dimming" is not so constant dimming on Ni-Mh  I'm using this LED Lenser from yesterday, so I will check brightness drop in very near future (I have Fenix E40 for comparison which have brightness stabilisation, and powered by Ni-MH too ).


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## R_finland (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks Norm. Anyhow l'll forget the photo for now. It is way too complicated for regular IT-guy like me to get it published first, then link here Light leakage anyway can be so clearly seen, when the torch is all the way retracted. Anyone will see it who owns LLP72.

That was good to remind again that regulator circuits (without a voltage indicator, or clear "behaviour" when batteries become flat) are harsh for the rechargeables. Brings back memories from fenix L2D which thought me how destructive reversing cell polarity really is. So in this case light starts to dim earlier than with regulator, indicating that is time to charge. 

Everyone seems to have their own preferences what comes to the beam pattern I use lensers mostly with wide. The evenly lit area is good for me and helps a lot when photographing in low light conditions. The narrow beam has not so good taste for me. it is too strict on the edges. I really prefer some spill around the hot spot. On the other hand, strict beam is not blinding you when looking in to pipes, tanks etc. Pros and cons

All in all. I give good word for LLP7.2. Simple to use, can be operated with gloves on. Gives decent output. Batteries do not last long, but i'm not using it all the night like hikers perhaps.


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## TCY (Jan 16, 2014)

Kyle_PL said:


> I'm using Ni-Mh in LED Lenser P7.2 . Ni-MH have maybe not perfect, but quite flat voltage discharge curve ( flat, rotated "S" ). ... so, this "constantly dimming" is not so constant dimming on Ni-Mh  I'm using this LED Lenser from yesterday, so I will check brightness drop in very near future (I have Fenix E40 for comparison which have brightness stabilisation, and powered by Ni-MH too ).



Don't get me wrong, I Still love my P7.2 and I put ni-mh rechargeables in it as well. The constant dimming process is less noticeable indeed(still noticeable though, as I play with it 20-30 times a day), but I still prefer a regulated light. Besides, P7.2 is a little too large and heavy for pocket EDC. Whenever I EDC it my pocket looks ultra big and my pants keep dropping if I'm not wearing a belt.


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## TCY (Jan 16, 2014)

R_finland said:


> Thanks Norm. Anyhow l'll forget the photo for now. It is way too complicated for regular IT-guy like me to get it published first, then link here Light leakage anyway can be so clearly seen, when the torch is all the way retracted. Anyone will see it who owns LLP72.
> 
> That was good to remind again that regulator circuits (without a voltage indicator, or clear "behaviour" when batteries become flat) are harsh for the rechargeables. Brings back memories from fenix L2D which thought me how destructive reversing cell polarity really is. So in this case light starts to dim earlier than with regulator, indicating that is time to charge.
> 
> ...



I"m not sure if it's just me, but whenever I pull the lens back and try to use the "wide" beam profile, the yellow part of the spectrum get pushed outside, leaving the centre tint almost purple. If LL can fix this in the future with their P7.3 or something, then I'll definitely pay a premium for it.

In general, P7.2 is indeed a good light, or at least for non flashaholics, as I learned that many people here don't like LL products. My non-flashaholic friends think P7.2 is a miracle though.


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## StorminMatt (Jan 16, 2014)

TCY said:


> As a person who suffered from constantly dimming incandescent flashlights in childhood, I'm pretty confident to say that electrical regulation is a must have feature in modern LED flashlights, and its pros greatly outweight its cons. But again that is only my personal preference, and I respect your opinion.



Incandescents are a completely different animal from LEDs. One HUGE difference is that, while LEDs experience an increase in efficiency as power levels drop, incandescents experience a HUGE decrease in their ability to generate visible light (a cooler filament means that more energy is being released in the infrared range). So as batteries run low, LEDs don't dim as much. And although LEDs can tint shift when underdriven, color does not change NEARLY as much in an underdriven LED as in an underdriven incandescent. Both of these factors mean that an LED is going to operate in a MUCH more satisfactory manner at lower voltages than an incandescent, even if the LED is not running from a regulated supply. If younadd to this batteries that produce a fairly constant discharge voltage (ie NiMH or LiFePO4 rather than alkaline or LiCo/LiMn), then regulation really isn't that necessary.


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## Mr Floppy (Jan 16, 2014)

R_finland said:


> I'm not sure what is the led exactly that P7.2 uses. What i searched from Cree's datasheets i think it is 1,5A/3.1V (continuous/hot) rated.



From the image posted above, it has the silvery circuit board under the LED and a square notch in the corner so I think it will be either a XP-E2 or XP-G2. From the size of the die, I'm thinking it is a XP-G2 and that would certainly fit with the 1.5A. If it's a XP-E2, then it's over-driven.


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## TCY (Jan 16, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> Incandescents are a completely different animal from LEDs. One HUGE difference is that, while LEDs experience an increase in efficiency as power levels drop, incandescents experience a HUGE decrease in their ability to generate visible light (a cooler filament means that more energy is being released in the infrared range). So as batteries run low, LEDs don't dim as much. And although LEDs can tint shift when underdriven, color does not change NEARLY as much in an underdriven LED as in an underdriven incandescent. Both of these factors mean that an LED is going to operate in a MUCH more satisfactory manner at lower voltages than an incandescent, even if the LED is not running from a regulated supply. If younadd to this batteries that produce a fairly constant discharge voltage (ie NiMH or LiFePO4 rather than alkaline or LiCo/LiMn), then regulation really isn't that necessary.



Wow thanks for the thourough explanation. As you can see I still have much to learn.


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## StorminMatt (Jan 16, 2014)

TCY said:


> Wow thanks for the thourough explanation. As you can see I still have much to learn.




On the other hand, keep in mind that regulation becomes more important when using batteries with more steeply dropping voltage. Regulation is therefore more important in lights that use Li-Ion batteries (other than LiFePO4). Also, regulation is obviously necessary in lights that can run on a variety of voltages (like 1xAA lights that can use 14500s). But a basic light running on NiMH batteries can do without it, and may actually be more efficient without it when losses are factored in.


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## TCY (Jan 16, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> On the other hand, keep in mind that regulation becomes more important when using batteries with more steeply dropping voltage. Regulation is therefore more important in lights that use Li-Ion batteries (other than LiFePO4). Also, regulation is obviously necessary in lights that can run on a variety of voltages (like 1xAA lights that can use 14500s). But a basic light running on NiMH batteries can do without it, and may actually be more efficient without it when losses are factored in.



Led Lenser warns its customers not to use Ni-mh and Lithium batteries, but it looks like no one would listen.
So if a flashlight eats batteries with flat voltage dischrage curve, regulation is not that important as the dimming effect is not very apparent?


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## StorminMatt (Jan 16, 2014)

That's what I've found. I actually have a few Lenser lights, including the HP550, P14, PX25, and a number of those 'free' G10's. And I've found that, when run on NiMH, I really don't notice them dimming until the batteries are pretty much spent. By the way, whenI use them, ImALWAYS run them on NiMH. And they still work.


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## TCY (Jan 17, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> That's what I've found. I actually have a few Lenser lights, including the HP550, P14, PX25, and a number of those 'free' G10's. And I've found that, when run on NiMH, I really don't notice them dimming until the batteries are pretty much spent. By the way, whenI use them, ImALWAYS run them on NiMH. And they still work.



I just did an experiment with my P7.2 using a set of ni-mh rechageables with around 50% juice left and a set of brand new alkalines. turns out the brightness difference is significant. I bet that the dimming effect is worse with a set of dying alkaline batteries though.


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## StorminMatt (Jan 18, 2014)

TCY said:


> I just did an experiment with my P7.2 using a set of ni-mh rechageables with around 50% juice left and a set of brand new alkalines. turns out the brightness difference is significant. I bet that the dimming effect is worse with a set of dying alkaline batteries though.



With a relatively low draw light, fresh alkaline batteries will produce greater initial output. But only for maybe 5-10 minutes. It doesn't take very long before brightness on alkaline batteries actually drops below that with NiMH. NiMH holds MUCH better brightness. And NiMH will always be brighter than alkaline batteries provided the current draw is sufficiently high. For instance, I don't think alkaline batteries will EVER produce greater output than NiMH with an SC52 on high.


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## TCY (Jan 18, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> With a relatively low draw light, fresh alkaline batteries will produce greater initial output. But only for maybe 5-10 minutes. It doesn't take very long before brightness on alkaline batteries actually drops below that with NiMH. NiMH holds MUCH better brightness. And NiMH will always be brighter than alkaline batteries provided the current draw is sufficiently high. For instance, I don't think alkaline batteries will EVER produce greater output than NiMH with an SC52 on high.



That's why everyone ignores LL's "USE ALKALINES ONLY OR YOU ARE SCREWED"warning


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## StorminMatt (Jan 18, 2014)

TCY said:


> That's why everyone ignores LL's "USE ALKALINES ONLY OR YOU ARE SCREWED"warning



That, and the fact that (1) alkaline batteries cost you every time you use them, and (2) they tend to leak and destroy your expensive Lenser light. Of course, I suspect Lenser wants you to use alkaline batteries for the second reason. Repeat business is ALWAYS a good thing for them.


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## TCY (Jan 18, 2014)

StorminMatt said:


> That, and the fact that (1) alkaline batteries cost you every time you use them, and (2) they tend to leak and destroy your expensive Lenser light. Of course, I suspect Lenser wants you to use alkaline batteries for the second reason. Repeat business is ALWAYS a good thing for them.


 
LL lights rely on alkaline battery's high internal resistance-hence low current capability to work as a regulation to prevent excessive current going to the LED, causing damage.
Hmmm that's what I learned from posts and posts.


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## Kyle_PL (Jan 19, 2014)

TCY said:


> LL lights rely on alkaline battery's high internal resistance-hence low current capability to work as a regulation to prevent excessive current going to the LED, causing damage.
> Hmmm that's what I learned from posts and posts.


But alkaline battery's have higher voltage (at least at the beginning), so more overall power (wattage) going to the LED "causing damage". ...


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## inetdog (Jan 19, 2014)

Open circuit voltage alone does not necessarily cause more current to flow. Nor even enough current that the LED voltage is somehow higher.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk


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## StorminMatt (Jan 19, 2014)

Kyle_PL said:


> But alkaline battery's have higher voltage (at least at the beginning), so more overall power (wattage) going to the LED "causing damage". ...



But not for long. Within a few minutes, voltage is WAYYYY down with alkalines. Especially if current draw is the better part of an amp.


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## Chodes (Jan 19, 2014)

Kyle_PL said:


> But alkaline battery's have higher voltage (at least at the beginning), so more overall power (wattage) going to the LED "causing damage". ...



Internal resistance beats the voltage (to achieve what LL want)

Example would be old school direct drive SSC P7 (no pun intended)
1 x LION (3.7V Nominal) will drive to around the LED's spec'd 2.8A.
4 x AA Alkalines,(6.0V Nominal) much higher volts, will result in more like 0.5A to LED.
3 x NiMh C cells (3.6V Nominal) would result in highest current to LED, most likely over 3Amps.

In that example the lower the voltage, the higher the current.


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## R_finland (Jan 20, 2014)

Did some measurements with fully charged 800mAh eneloops and got the results bellow. Test leads and DMM will add some resistance to the circuit giving bit lower readings than they really are, but still I think LED will not be even near on its limits by current vise. Overheating is then another thing, but the way how I use the light isn’t overheating it anyway.

Boost – 1,15A
Power – 0,68A
Low – 0,11A

I think using ni-mh is safe for the torch, but stated runtimes are so over from reality with using nimh batteries that if users would really be running rechargeables until the light dies they would just be ruin their batteries for good as light itself is not guarding batteries in any way. The sales package stated 2h runtime for boost (that is weird even to write on it as you should duct tape the button down..) and 4 hours for HI. Using alkalines it is possible to run batteries flat with still have some light left many hours tough. And Then, these kinds of runtimes then are possible to print on a package.


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## Kyle_PL (Jan 20, 2014)

R_finland said:


> The sales package stated 2h runtime for boost (that is weird even to write on it as you should duct tape the button down..) and 4 hours for HI.


2h Boost & 4h High & 50h Low (LED Lenser 1 lumen LOL standard), 1h Boost & 2h High & 25h Low (ANSI standard).


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## Mr Floppy (Jan 20, 2014)

R_finland said:


> Did some measurements with fully charged 800mAh eneloops and got the results bellow.
> Boost – 1,15A
> Power – 0,68A
> Low – 0,11A



Interesting. If it is the XP-G2, then it is not over-driving the LED and NiMH batteries are not a problem. If it is the XP-E2, then yes, boost is over-driven. Comparing to the old XP-E version, the current draw was Low 30mA, 750mA high, boost 1100mA. So low is higher, high is lower. The resistor values for the old one was 100 Ohms for low and 1.5 Ohm for high.


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## RedForest UK (Jan 20, 2014)

Mr Floppy said:


> Interesting. If it is the XP-G2, then it is not over-driving the LED and NiMH batteries are not a problem. If it is the XP-E2, then yes, boost is over-driven.



It certainly looks like an XP-G2 to me.


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## ven (Jan 20, 2014)

Just ordered a T7.2 as i find the T7 faultless over the years as a daily work light.Been dropped,battered repeatedly and never let me down.The smooth spot/flood is 2nd to none imo along with unlimited free cells in work makes it a winner for me.

I have never tried NiHM cells being honest,but had no need as i replace the duracells every few days depending on use.I find the 4xAAA last up to about 8hrs use before i change them for fresh.Recharging NiMH in work is not convenient


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## Kyle_PL (Jan 21, 2014)

R_finland said:


> if users would really be running rechargeables until the light dies they would just be ruin their batteries


... this is a problem in LED Lenser. I must checking voltage by multimeter from time to time, if I don't want to kill accus.

In Fenix E40 when battery voltage is dropping (under ~1,2V/cell), there is no diffrence betwean hi and low mode (~100vs~200 lumens, so it's clearly visible), and I know when charge accus, without multimeter.


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## ven (Jan 22, 2014)

Well received T7.2 today at work,one word..........fantastic .I knew it would be anyway,as used the T7 for years issue free and it took some beatings along with an easy 2-4hrs a day use.I will be using alki cells as free so NiMH eneloops will be left at home.Only difference over P7 is the T7 has more knurling and you can lock the head in any position to stop accidental movement.







Great light:twothumbs


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## TCY (Jan 22, 2014)

ven said:


> Well received T7.2 today at work,one word..........fantastic .I knew it would be anyway,as used the T7 for years issue free and it took some beatings along with an easy 2-4hrs a day use.I will be using alki cells as free so NiMH eneloops will be left at home.Only difference over P7 is the T7 has more knurling and you can lock the head in any position to stop accidental movement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right after I reveived my P7.2 I found out that T7.2 has the lock-unlock function, which I desperately want..damn.
Enjoy your new light


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## Kyle_PL (Jan 23, 2014)

ven said:


> Great light:twothumbs


Please- take photo from front of T7.2. In my P7.2 is red something around lens, and this giving some ugly red-coloring.

edit
ps. hmmm ... now I see on photo in internet this red-s..t on T7.2 too


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## R_finland (Jan 23, 2014)

Does anyone know when M-series is being updated to MX.2? They, I think give an indication when batteries are depleted?


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## ven (Jan 23, 2014)

Kyle_PL said:


> Please- take photo from front of T7.2. In my P7.2 is red something around lens, and this giving some ugly red-coloring.
> 
> edit
> ps. hmmm ... now I see on photo in internet this red-s..t on T7.2 too




Its in work but can take a pic either way tomorrow no problem i can tell you it is exactly the same light,same led,same lens,same red.My tint is spot on,very slight blue tint around edge which i like a lot.No red though is effecting the beam in anyway but i have not "white walled" it..........but being honest it could show a rainbow on a wall,as long as not in use its fine for me imo.

I chose the t7 for 2 reasons.already had a t7 before(now gifted to a work colleague)for the extra knurling and ridge on the head for easier zooming.It was a bonus being able to lock the head in any position so a no brainer for me.I dont know if your well up on the coast brand,they are similar lights to lensers can lock the head so presume its stemmed from those(may share patents etc....dont know)as separate brands now.I can tell you i am made up with it,have many far more expensive,ha3 etc and this t7.2 is up there with my favourites small,compact,nicely made and great flood/throw.I have noticed it is sufficiently brighter than the old t7(not inc the boost).Its more than enough for my use either way,as for not being water proof.......again i dont care,not exactly going swimming with it.........it wont see water,not even rain drops.I paid £42 for it,made sure from a genuine seller too(said before lenser have more copies out there than the rest of the brands put together).I dont feel short changed in anyway,5yr warranty too and having dealt with LEDCO it cant get any better with free parts sent free same or next day.


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## utlgoa (Jan 24, 2014)

Just ordered a P7.2 after watching YouTube video's from Shot Show 2014.

Hope Led Lenser has plans on updating the X7R as well.

640 Lumen ?

26650 Battery ?


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## TCY (Jan 24, 2014)

utlgoa said:


> Just ordered a P7.2 after watching YouTube video's from Shot Show 2014.
> 
> Hope Led Lenser has plans on updating the X7R as well.
> 
> ...



What..right after we got our P7.2 they are intruducing the newer version with red+blue+green light with beacon mode? Gotta grab one of those bad boys..


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## TCY (Jan 24, 2014)

Just watched the LL shot show 2014 video. Looks like LL is trying to catching up in terms of technologies and they sure do get some decent results. Kudos:twothumbs


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## KAS1808 (Feb 4, 2014)

TCY said:


> Yes P7.2's little red dots on its body do light up a bit when you turn the light on, I reckon it is intended to do so but I do not have any evidence to support it.
> 
> For the led toughness issue, Led Lenser warns its customer not to use batteries like ni-mh rechargeables or lithium batts, only non-recharageable alkalines. Before I reveive my P7.2 I did some research around CPF and other forums, and I found out that most direct-drive-based LL lights rely on the steep voltage discharge curve of alkaline batts to prevent overdrive the LED, ie as you alkaline batts get old, (direct drive)LED will be less stressed and works in a more relaxed state. On the other hand, ni-mh rechargeables have 0.3V less initial voltage but a much stabler voltage discharge curve, so your LED will work slightly harder(than alkaline batts powered) as batts drain. Although many LL users report that they put ni-mh rechargeables in their P7 or P-whatever for years without any issue(me too!), I still believe that the voltage discharge difference will cause a certain degree of luminous decay. Besides, I don't think the LED inside P7.2 is fully driven or over driven.
> 
> ...But that's just me guessing in a VERY non-peorfessional perspective(and I mean it mate, I'm "unenlightened".). I'm not even sure if I'm answering your question or not. Hope it helps though.



According to the YouTube Video 'SHOT SHOW 2014 FIRST LOOK: LED LENSER lineup' the lit red dots at the side are intentional. In respect of batteries the M series (at least the M14 I have) can use NiMH although alkalinise are recommended. There are also some, such as the M1 and M8 that use lithiums. Also the Pr (rechargeable) also use their SLT micro controllers (although don't have as many settings as the M series) and use rechargeable lithiums.


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