# Sunwayman V60C & Charging Base review (runtime, beamshots, pics )



## turboBB (Sep 29, 2011)

Sunwayman created quite a stir when they first introduced their revolutionary Variable Magnetic Control System (MCS) as it allowed one to quickly and easily "dial up" the brightness they wanted. The MCS features prominently throughout the V series line; starting with the V10R up through to their latest, the V60C. However, the MCS is no longer the real news here but rather the new "soft contact" charging system that Sunwayman has incorporated into their newest V light. While a rechargeable light is not a novel concept, it's the execution that is. Let's see how well it does.



*MFG SPECS*
● CREE XM-L T6 LED, with a lifetime of 50,000 hours;
● Digital Sensor Magnetic Control system - slightly twist the Rotator Ring from left to right to select your desired mode ranging from 5 to 728 lumens, super-low standby mode, or a strobe function;Hidden SOS Mode: when the light is at Strobe mode, twist the rotator ring to the Max output and back to the strobe within 2 seconds, the SOS mode is activated; twist the ring away from the SOS mode and stay for more than 2 seconds, the Strobe Mode is resumed and SOS is hidden.
- Max Output: 728 Lumens (2hrs)
- Min Output: 5 Lumen (150hrs)
- Strobe: 728 Lumens
- SOS
● Constant current circuit, constant output
● Effective range of 395 meters
● Uses 3 x 18650 batteries (V60C charging base can be applied to charge the batteries); or 6 x CR123A primary batteries; or 6 x 16340 rechargeable batteries, but V60C charging base must NOT be applied to the 16340!
● Working voltage: 5.5~25.2V
● High quality reflector maintains great throw distance and spread with an ideal beam pattern
● Dimension: 165mm (length) x 57mm (head diameter) x 45mm (body diameter)
● Weight: 354.6g（battery excluded）
● Aerospace-grade aluminum alloy
● Military Specification Type III- hard anodized body
● Waterproof, in accordance with IPX-8 standard
● Ultra-clear tempered glass lens resists scratches and impacts
● Tail stand capable- can be used as a candle
● Included Accessories: lanyard, O-ring, holster



*PACKAGING*
The V60C arrived in a cardboard box w/foam inserts that provided ample protection:


 



Items shipped with the light were:
- Holster
- Lanyard
- 1 x large o-ring
- 2 x small o-ring's
- Instruction manual
- Warranty card
- Mini product pamphlet



*DESIGN / FEATURES*
The V60C will be instantly recognizable to anyone familiar with Sunwayman's lights as it features many of the same design motifs:












 
This is akin to the strategy that certain car manufacturers have employed to make their entire line distinctly recognizable as their brand (e.g. the famed kidney grill on BMW's).

The V60C features what normally would be considered a turbo head @ 2.25" (56.9mm) but the batteries are arranged in the carrier in a triangular side-by-side-by-side formation, adding considerably to the diameter of the battery tube thus not giving it that impression. Here it is next to a M3LT (2.5" head) but unlike the V60c, the batteries are arranged inline with the tube:





The flat stainless steel bezel was easily removed without any tools; it secures a AR coated lens (this isn't mentioned in the manual or product page) which I did not try to remove:








The LED was just a tad off-center on my unit but it didn't contribute to any flaws in the beam that I could make out.




Just aft of the bezel is what looks to be an anti-roll ring, however it's purely cosmetic as it's actually slightly smaller in diameter than the bezel (so if you must lay the V60c on it's side, make sure it's a even surface otherwise it will go rolling off somewhere!). This gradual tapering effect continues sequentially down through the four cooling fins before finally leveling off at the control ring:








The base is completely flat and offers a very stable foundation for tailstanding (albeit it won't rest evenly if the lanyard is in use): 


 



There are springs on both the cathode and anode (in which case, it's covered):







NEW 9/30: One thing I discovered while testing is that if I set the light on a hard surface with enough force, the light would temporarily black out. Upon investigating what might be causing this, I found that the rate of cathode's spring at the bottom of the battery tube to be very light. When dropping in the battery carrier, it will cause the spring to fully compress and bottom out. I speculated that what was happening was that when I set the light down w/force, it temporarily disengaged the carrier from the anode spring thus causing the temporary "off" state.

I raised this to Sunwayman's attention and their reply was that this was in fact by design to protect the batteries. They tested the light w/springs of various rates and found that when a spring with a strong rate was used, it transmitted more of the shock to the batteries during impact testing (which in certain cases, led to damages to the anode tips). Thus they purposely went with a spring w/a lighter rate. 

With additional testing, I ran vigrously with the light and was not able to induce any blackouts. Only with extreme start/stop shaking motions that runs parallel with the light was I able to induce any blackouts. So from my perspective I don't think this is a major issue and actually appreciate that some thought was put into this and not that it was a design flaw. END NEW 9/30

The battery tube is a single integrated unit without a traditional tailcap or switch. The anode/cathode charging contact points within the base are uniquely designed to be exposed for easy docking to the charger and is affixed via four hex bolts adding to the rugged good looks of this light:


 



There have been some concerns raised that this creates a risk of shorting, however, given the anode is recessed, it lessens this risk greatly (but doesn't completely mitigate it):




There is a built-in protection in the battery carrier that acts like a fuse in case a short does actually ever occur, however, once that happens the carrier will need to be replaced. I've made a suggestion that perhaps a PCB can be installed at each end of the carrier to help solve this problem.

*NEW 10/3:* To clarify what I mean when I say the anode/cathode are exposed, here's a pic of me taking a voltage reading by placing the leads on them:



*END NEW 10/3*

The battery carrier is smartly designed so that it can be inserted either way into the battery tube without worries of reversing polarity (you still however have to be mindful of inserting the batteries into the carrier in the correct polarity though). It achieves this by making a "parallel" connection of the anode/cathode through the bars (which are now heat-shrinked vs. the bare ones shown on Sunwayman's product page) that hold the two end pieces of the carrier together.


 



To expound (explanation to come):








The batteries are connected serially and can accomodate either 3 x 18650's (12.6V) or 6 x CR123's or RCR123's (18V & 25.2V respectively):
*

 NEW: 10/5 

**END NEW*



*SIZE*
The form follows what has been dubbed on the forums as a soup can shape; that is, short and "chunky" :nana::





I don't currently have any other lights in this form factor so have compared it to the larger lights in my collection:




From L to R: RediLast 3100, Dereelight DBS V2, Sunwayman V60C, Lumapower TurboForce Kit, SureFire M3LT, Klarus XT20 

However, it doesn't feel overly large in my medium-sized hand: *NEW 10/1*


 




*FIT & FINISH*
This is now the fifth light from Sunwayman that I've had the privilege of testing/owning and I've come to expect a high level of quality and the V60C does not disappoint. Everything, from the solid build to the flawless finish, is truly top notch:




As can be seen in pic above, the anodizing is flawless and matched between the head and tube.

The control ring offers just the right dampening to allow smooth control without being so stiff so that one handed operation in an underhand grip is possible with the forefinger and thumb. If there was but one nitpick here, it's that the the control ring clicks solidly when it hits the detents when rotating it CCW (ie: shutting off the light) but it doesn't have the same feel when rotating CW.

I also noted some very minute spots where the ano was missing on the square-cut threads on my sample but this would be the first Sunwayman for me that exhibited this:







*UI*
As previously mentioned, the V60C doesn't have a conventional switch. The control ring is used for turning the light on/off as well as controlling brightness and accessing strobe and a hidden SOS mode. The ring offers approx. 135 degrees of travel total of which the brightness adjustment covers 110 degrees and the remaining 25 degrees of travel allotted to accessing the strobe/SOS mode. Save for a few design grooves, the control ring is smooth and doesn't feature any knurling. This may cause operational difficulties with gloves on. 
[MORE TO COME] 



*RUNTIME*
The relevant battery stats are provided above each runtime graph along with:
- Voltage of the battery at the start and end of the test
- Current draw as taken right before the test (to come)
- Actual runtime until the battery first starts to cut out (first in HR and then in M so in the case of the AW2600, read this as 2.1 Hrs *OR* 128 Min)
- For testing on Max (in which case a fan was used), temperature: ambient, the head at start and the max it reached







Axis: X = Time in Min and Y = Relative Output

I've only managed to get the runtime on 3 x AW 2600 for now but anticipate getting a 3rd RediLast 3100 by next week so will add those results later. I was able to exceed the stated ANSI runtime since the 2.1hrs were for the total time the V60C stayed on Max brightness. 

*NEW 10/5:* Runtime on 3xRediLast3100 now posted; total runtime on Max was 2.6hrs. *END NEW* 


*INDOOR BEAMSHOTS*
All shots on Canon S3 IS using WB that yields the closest to what my eyes see (left = 1/13" @ f2.7 | right = 1/80" @ f2.7). 





Click on pics to load full size.

Due to the smooth and deep reflector, the V60C is definitely geared towards throw but still provides very good flood. It is currently the best thrower in my collection. Please refer to this post for beamshots and comparo to 17 other lights.



*OUTDOOR BEAMSHOTS*
All shots on Canon S3 IS, ISO 80 @ f2.7 using Daylight WB but the tint is actually not as green as depicted here. Distance to the white wall is 21.3 ft (6.5m) and to the steps (at the forefront of the bottom of the pic is 12ft). 

Shutter speeds: left = 1/4" | center = 1/20" | right = 1/80"
*

 

 

 *
Click on pics to load full size.

Please see outdoor comparo beamshots for V60C (and 23 other lights) here.

*NEW 10/11: LONG DISTANCE (565ft / 172m)
**

* 

 
Full details for this shoot and comparo vs. other lights here.



*GALLERY*





Disclosure: V60C provided by Sunwayman for review.


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## turboBB (Sep 29, 2011)

*V60C Charging Base Review*

If I'm not mistaken, the V60C's charging base is the first of its kind that allows one to charge a light directly though the bottom of its base (I'm aware of Pelican's Big Ed, but the prongs are on the side of the base and not directly beneath it). This offers extremely simple charging of 3x18650 batteries (6xRCR123's are NOT supported) without having to remove them from the light by simply dropping the light into the base where the respective anode/cathode contact points will mate (solely by the pressure of the weight of the light) and initiate charging:



For clarification of which is the anode/cathode; in the pic above, the anode point in the base of the light (surrounded by the white plastic ring) mates with the spring-loaded protruding anode point (surrounded by black plastic ring) in the charging base.

There is no twisting or connections that need to be manually made, just place the light into the base and easily remove it with one hand when you need to use it (however this also causes it to disengage easily when being charged in a car and going over strong bumps).



*PACKAGING & CONTENTS*
The V60C Charging Base comes in its own "cardboard w/cut-out window" style packaging:


 



The version I received comes with a US style connector on the adapter which supports 100-240V with a rated output of 12V 600mA:


 





*SPECS & INSTRUCTIONS*
Rather than retype the whole thing, I've taken a pic of the instructions and specs:



Note: I found it interesting that the cigarette adapter accepts the 24V system which I don't believe we have here in the states (please feel free to pipe in if you know differently).

The charger will only initiate charging if the collective voltage of the batteries are at 12V or less (+/- .1v). 

The diameter of the base measures 3.06in (77.8mm) and fits perfectly in my car's cupholder: *NEW 10/3*


 

 
Obviously every car is different so the base might not fit if the cupholder is particularly small. *END NEW 10/3*



*CHARGING ALGORITHM*
*NEW 10/22:* In order to log both the V and C, I needed a second data logging DMM. There was a used 189 on the MP and although it was going for an excellent price, it's still a bit more than I can shell out at this time after I already splurged on the 289 earlier in the year and given I would also need to purchase another USB/IR adapter. I ended up in my local Radio Shack to pick up some cables and it just turns out they had two 22-812's in stock. I first found out about this DMM thanks to one of Mr. Happy's posts. At $49.99, it can't be beat for my needs so I picked one up as well as a RS232/USB cable. After a little hunting for COM ports, it detected the meter so I was set!

Or so I thought... as it turns out, neither the charging base nor the battery carrier are magnetic so I had to abandon my magnetic leads idea and start from scratch. After a little digging around in my parts bin, I ended up using:

- 2 x mini-ratcheting clamps
- 1 x 16340 spacer
- 2 x alligator jumpers
- 2 x alligator clip lead adapters
- 2 x short jumpers (old wires)

and jerry-rigged this contraption:




After I double-checked the wiring, I held my breath and plugged it in... WOO HOO!  it's working as expected (I think) :thinking::




In order: Charging base | batteries and carrier | Fluke View Forms & Radio Shack Meter View programs


 

 

 

Also, here is the wiring diagram:



So basically:
- Positive lead from Fluke 289 & RS 22-812 are connected to anode of charger
- Negative lead from 289 connected to jumper on anode of battery carrier
- Negative lead from 22-812 and cathode from battery carrier are connected to jumper of cathode of V60C charging base

Thanks to insight provided by HKJ's "How do I test a charger" write-up, I think I got the wiring correct but if one of you more knowledgeable folks see something wrong, by all means, please let me know.

It's currently charging up 3 x RL 3100's that were drained down to about 3.53V each (total V measured at start was 10.6V). The V has been steadily climbing (now at 11.39V, was 11.07 at start) while C has been holding steady around 419mA. I'll post the graph when it's done.

UPDATE 11PM: V now at 12.16 and C has dropped ever so slightly to 417mA.

*NEW 10/23:* OK, so I got the data points and plotted in Excel and it looks like this:


 




I'm not an expert on deciphering CC/CV charge curves but it looks like it conforms to that algo. The current was reduced down to 76.3mA right before termination and does not go into a trickle charge (no current detected). The ending V for the 3 cells totaled 12.4V (4.12, 4.13 & 4.15) so this didn't reach a full charge to 12.6V.

I have some stacking banana patch cords coming in next week and should be able to reduce some of the clutter. I'll also label each cells to track the V @ start/fin to provide additional details but again this isn't a balancing charger so eventually some of the cells will be a little off.

As mentioned, this is my first go at reviewing a charger so if anything is amiss, please feel free to pipe in.

Cheers,
Tim

P.S. Kilted has posted a great thread re: solar charging the V60C that might be of interest.


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## candle lamp (Sep 30, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman V60C (review in progress... but now w/runtime, beamshots, pics )*

Excellent reveiw and thanks for your time. turboBB! :thumbsup:

The runtime shows very good regulation. I think the build quality is as very high as other Sunwayman lights.

I know this review is in progress, but I have some questions as follows. Sorry about that. 



> The battery tube is a single integrated unit without a traditional tailcap or switch. The anode/cathode charging contact points within the base are uniquely designed to be exposed for easy docking to the charger and is affixed via four hex bolts adding to the rugged good looks of this light:
> There have been some concerns raised that this creates a risk of shorting, however, given the anode is recessed, it lessens this risk greatly (but doesn't completely mitigate it)


 
Could you explain what the source of shorting is in more detail and show the picture of the charging base(or charger)? 



> The battery carrier is smartly designed so that it can be inserted either way into the battery tube without worries of reversing polarity (you still however have to be mindful of inserting the batteries into the carrier in the correct polarity though). The batteries are connected serially and can accomodate either 3 x 18650's (12.6V) or 6 x CR123's or RCR123's (18V & 25.2V) respectively.


 
Will you post the picture of the battery carrier? 

Thanks in advance.
KH


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## infinus (Sep 30, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman V60C (review in progress... but now w/runtime, beamshots, pics )*

Great job TurboBB!


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## Echo63 (Sep 30, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman V60C (review in progress... but now w/runtime, beamshots, pics )*

where is the switch on this one ? is is it the big charging contact on the back ? or just the MCS ring ?


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## Kilted (Sep 30, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman V60C (review in progress... but now w/runtime, beamshots, pics )*

It seems to me a cap or a rubber plug to cover the charging port on the tail of the flashlight would work if you are in a hostile climate might help. 

Excellent review I've been waiting on this for awhile.

=D~~Kilted


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## turboBB (Oct 1, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman V60C (review in progress... but now w/runtime, beamshots, pics )*



candle lamp said:


> Excellent reveiw and thanks for your time. turboBB! :thumbsup:
> 
> The runtime shows very good regulation. I think the build quality is as very high as other Sunwayman lights.
> 
> ...


 
Thx KH! All will be clear when I add some major updates to this review later today (inclduing pics of the charger and battery carrier)




infinus said:


> Great job TurboBB!


 
Thx!




Echo63 said:


> where is the switch on this one ? is is it the big charging contact on the back ? or just the MCS ring ?


 
Just the MCS ring, I'll be adding the UI section later today so check back in for updates.




Kilted said:


> It seems to me a cap or a rubber plug to cover the charging port on the tail of the flashlight would work if you are in a hostile climate might help.
> 
> Excellent review I've been waiting on this for awhile.


 
Thx! and good suggestion. The one that I sent to Sunwayman was that it'd be neat if they created a magnetic cap that could be easily BE "snapped" into place to cover the exposed base as well as have a USB port so that one can use it to charge USB devices in an emergency. This would be a great feature on a camping trip since you can then charge the light during the day in your car (or 12V cigarette socket power source).

Anyways, I still have a bit more to add to this review but will need to create some magnetic leads so that I can graph the charging algo. More to come...

Cheers,
Tim


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## CobraMan (Oct 1, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman V60C (review in progress... but now w/runtime, beamshots, pics )*

Thanks for the great review! I have been hoping someone would provide information on the V60C ever since it was announced.

Few questions still in my mind before I commit to buying one:

1) What is the rotation angle associated with the adjustable brightness? I am hoping it is something at least 270 or more.

2) Are there any concerns for charging the batteries inside the body of the light with heat build-up? Can the battery carrier be charged in the cradle outside the light?

3) Any chance of getting some long distance outdoor beamshots?

Cheers,
Tim


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## Kilted (Oct 1, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman V60C (review in progress... but now w/runtime, beamshots, pics )*

OK, question; I made the dumb assumption all along that there is a blocking diode in the flashlight tail contact assembly. This is what I would do and it never occurred to me until now that there may not be one there.

Can you check with a meter to see if a blocking diode has been installed?

Thank you

=D~~ Kilted


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## turboBB (Oct 1, 2011)

@Candlelamp - battery carrier pics (as well as additional materials) posted as well as further explanation of anode/cathode points.

@CobraMan - Thx! And as to your questions:

1) I added this to the newly posted UI section but just to reply here, I measured about 135 degrees of travel of which 110 is for the brightness and 25 for the strobe/SOS mode. While this may be disappointing to you, consider using the V60C one handed in which I can commit the full travel in about 3 turns with my thumb and forefinger. I'll graph the output later.

2) I haven't done extensive testing yet but given the charge rate and use of healthy cells, I'd say there should be no concerns with heat buildup.

3) The weather here simply hasn't been cooperating but I'll eventually get some long distance shots soon.

@Kilted - No, there is no blocking diode, I can taking a voltage reading by placing my leads on the anode/cathode points in the base of the light.


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## infinus (Oct 1, 2011)

turboBB said:


> @Kilted - No, there is no blocking diode, I can taking a voltage reading by placing my leads on the anode/cathode points in the base of the light.



Whoa!  That's a bone head move!


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## HOB3 (Oct 1, 2011)

Great review, I love the Sunwayman lights. Thanks


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## Kilted (Oct 1, 2011)

infinus said:


> Whoa!  That's a bone head move!



From a safety point of view yes. If there were a blocking diode then the snap on tail cover with usb charger port would not work. Any one care to take on the task of designing the V60C USB charger port? Remember you are stepping down 12DC to 5VDC and a linear regulator may not be the best. Let's say round-about $20.


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## Kilted (Oct 1, 2011)

FYI -- 

Batteryjunction and Goinggear have the V60C up for pre-order. I have mine in.

=D~~Kilted


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## Kilted (Oct 1, 2011)

The 24VDC charger input is for aircraft. Many aircraft power systems are 24VDC. Remember travel inverters have 12/24vdc input, check the power adapter and see if the back end unplugs for the 24VDC plane adapter.

Great job with the review!!!

=D~~ Kilted


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## turboBB (Oct 3, 2011)

Thx, I didn't realize the 24V system was also used for non-automotive purposes. As for the adapter, the wire is fixed and not removable. Has been a busy weekend but I'll be adding more to this review this week.

Cheers,
Tim


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## candle lamp (Oct 3, 2011)

turboBB said:


> @Candlelamp - battery carrier pics (as well as additional materials) posted as well as further explanation of anode/cathode points.



Thanks again. turboBB! 



> There have been some concerns raised that this creates a risk of shorting, however, given the anode is recessed, it lessens this risk greatly (but doesn't completely mitigate it).



I've read & seen the post again, but I'm still none the wiser. I'm sorry for my bad knowledge.  Please let me know the reason for shorting.


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## turboBB (Oct 3, 2011)

@candlelamp, I've added a pic where I'm taking a voltage reading directly off the anode/cathode points in the base of the light (search 10/3). Hopefully this clarifies things.

I've also posted pics of the charging base in the car.

Cheers,
Tim


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## Kilted (Oct 4, 2011)

Tim,

Interesting photo of the voltage reading. In general the anode looks deep enough not to worry about it. But for those who do I would go to the local hardware store to find a plug to cover the anode.

Perhaps of even more concern what if the light was dropped in the water? IPX8 only means water ingress into the body of light protection. Off more concern would be to drop the light into salt water, I would expect the battery to be completely discharged as the electrodes electrolyze the water into hydrogen and oxygen. 

Now for the charger to work it needs to be able to measured the battery voltage. There could still be a blocking diode with a high ohm sense resistor to provide voltage feedback. Check with ohm meter thru the shell. 

I am not overly concerned and will keep mine on order.

=D~~ Kilted


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## candle lamp (Oct 4, 2011)

turboBB said:


> @candlelamp, I've added a pic where I'm taking a voltage reading directly off the anode/cathode points in the base of the light (search 10/3). Hopefully this clarifies things.
> 
> I've also posted pics of the charging base in the car.
> 
> ...



Now, I get it. I think your suggestion is good and hope Sunwayman approves it. 
Thanks,
KH


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## jh333233 (Oct 4, 2011)

Base on the design of the tail
seems this is not a good toy on the beach


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## turboBB (Oct 5, 2011)

@jh333233 - I think that was to be expected especially where the control ring is concerned. I believe there was mention over on CPFMP that someone got mud into their control rings and after cleansing, it didn't have the same smooth feel so definitely something to keep in mind.

All, add'l runtime w/new bats added and also pic of 6xLiFEPO4 in carrier posted (search 10/5).

Thx,
Tim


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## Kilted (Oct 11, 2011)

Battery Junction are now shipping the pre-order - back orders. =D~~ Kilted


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## turboBB (Oct 11, 2011)

Long distance beam shots added above but for full details and comparo, check here. I also picked up the magnets but just need to get some thick silicone wiring and hope to have the charging algo graphed soon.

Cheers,
Tim


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## candle lamp (Oct 17, 2011)

turboBB said:


> I also picked up the magnets but just need to get some thick silicone wiring and hope to have the charging algo graphed soon.



Did you pick up the magnets from the head? It's amazing you could do so. Hope you to take good care of the light. :naughty:


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## turboBB (Oct 18, 2011)

Yup, got the magnets but just need the wires. I also picked up a second data logging DMM so can now graph both the V & C simultaneously. Hopefully it'll be done by this weekend.

Cheers,
Tim


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## Kilted (Oct 19, 2011)

I have received my V60C today. Very nice light. =D~~ Kilted


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## turboBB (Oct 22, 2011)

Hi guys,

Initial charging base logging set up posted (search 10/22). I'll follow up w/the graph when it's done charging.

Cheers,
Tim


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## Kilted (Oct 23, 2011)

TurboBB, thanks for the mention, I appreciate it . =D~~ Kilted


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## turboBB (Oct 23, 2011)

Graph and stats now added (search 10/23). So it looks like a CC/CV charger but with the only drawback being that it won't/can't balance charge so the cells will likely eventually become unbalanced enough to require manual intervention. Main thing to keep in mind is to use balanced cells (in which case it'd be preferable if you can actually match the internal resistance and not just by voltage) and to check the individual cells every few charges to ensure that they're reasonably balanced.

Experts, please chime in if you see anything amiss with what I've stated. As mentioned this is the first review of a charger for me and I'm still learning as I go along.

Cheers,
Tim


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## candle lamp (Oct 24, 2011)

turboBB said:


> So it looks like a CC/CV charger but with the only drawback being that it won't/can't balance charge so the cells will likely eventually become unbalanced enough to require manual intervention. Main thing to keep in mind is to use balanced cells (in which case it'd be preferable if you can actually match the internal resistance and not just by voltage) and to check the individual cells every few charges to ensure that they're reasonably balanced.



Very good job! :thumbsup: That's what I want to know about. turboBB! Thanks a lot for your effort.

If the charger can't balance charge, what the user can do is to use the same brand, capacity, and new cells if possible. Am I right?

KH


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## turboBB (Oct 24, 2011)

The cells don't necessarily have to be new (although it's preferable if you're using primaries) but if there was a way to measure internal resistance and match that instead of just merely the voltage or capacity then that would be the best way to ensure one is using matched cells.

In short, the methods in order of decreasing accuracy of matching cells (and again, someone please correct if you disagree):
1 - Internal resistance
2 - Measured capacity (discharge/charge cycle)
3 - Voltage

Cheers,
Tim


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## nitric (Oct 25, 2011)

i wonder where to order that in malaysia.


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## jh333233 (Oct 26, 2011)

turboBB said:


> The cells don't necessarily have to be new (although it's preferable if you're using primaries) but if there was a way to measure internal resistance and match that instead of just merely the voltage or capacity then that would be the best way to ensure one is using matched cells.
> 
> In short, the methods in order of decreasing accuracy of matching cells (and again, someone please correct if you disagree):
> 1 - Internal resistance
> ...



Voltage doesnt mean much since ur still floating between 2.75-4.2 @ maximum
I think "Brands" should be included too


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## Kilted (Oct 31, 2011)

Kilted said:


> From a safety point of view yes. If there were a blocking diode then the snap on tail cover with usb charger port would not work. Any one care to take on the task of designing the V60C USB charger port? Remember you are stepping down 12DC to 5VDC and a linear regulator may not be the best. Let's say round-about $20.



Here is the DC-DC regulator; http://www.murata-ps.com/data/power/oki-78sr.pdf

=D~~ Kilted


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## Kilted (Nov 1, 2011)

Well I had my first problem with my V60C. Something to watch out for, one of the four screws at the bottom holding the large ring contact was loose and almost fell out. Caught in time and fortunately I had the correct hex driver to tighten it with. Check the other three and they were tight.

=D~~ Kilted


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## DanM (Nov 5, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up. I checked the screws on my V60C and they were all loose. One was so loose you could turn it with a tooth pick.
Thanks again.
Dan


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## tpopz2908 (Nov 8, 2011)

Re: the screws. Would there be any problem using blue lock-tite on these ? Are these screws conductive in any way? This light, for me, will eventually make it's way into the general use light-fleet for my staff.....after considerable testing ....maybe  It would be nice to be able to just lock-tite the screws and forget about 'em.

I already anticipate having to do a bit of regular maintence checking and balancing batteries, but that's no big deal if done regularly. Don't want to worry about screws falling out if I can help it.


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## bluesaber (Nov 8, 2011)

That exposed tail-cap is a deal breaker for me...


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## Kilted (Nov 8, 2011)

tpopz2908 said:


> Re: the screws. Would there be any problem using blue lock-tite on these ? Are these screws conductive in any way? This light, for me, will eventually make it's way into the general use light-fleet for my staff.....after considerable testing ....maybe  It would be nice to be able to just lock-tite the screws and forget about 'em.
> 
> I already anticipate having to do a bit of regular maintence checking and balancing batteries, but that's no big deal if done regularly. Don't want to worry about screws falling out if I can help it.



I posted your concern to SWM on cpfmarketplace; http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?258267-AWM-V60C-loose-screws&p=2723003#post2723003

=D~~ Kilted


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## tpopz2908 (Nov 9, 2011)

Kilted said:


> I posted your concern to SWM on cpfmarketplace; http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?258267-AWM-V60C-loose-screws&p=2723003#post2723003
> 
> =D~~ Kilted



Asked and answered. That's great!


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## Kilted (Nov 9, 2011)

tpopz2908 said:


> Asked and answered. That's great!



If you are having a problem please use; Service/Inquiry: [email protected] I sent them an email and got a very quick polite response back. From my pov it looks like they have excellent product and service department.

tpopz2908, it sounds like you have an interesting requirement. I would suggest contacting SWM with questions, suggestions, etc and see what they have to say.

=D~~ Kilted


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## tpopz2908 (Nov 9, 2011)

Kilted said:


> If you are having a problem please use; Service/Inquiry: [email protected] I sent them an email and got a very quick polite response back. From my pov it looks like they have excellent product and service department.
> 
> tpopz2908, it sounds like you have an interesting requirement. I would suggest contacting SWM with questions, suggestions, etc and see what they have to say.
> 
> =D~~ Kilted



Thanks Kilted, you've been very helpful.

Just got my light today! It's a design I've been waiting for. Drop-in charger, variable output, substantial size as to not get lost in the truck(but actually a bit smaller than I thought) and a good run-time. Got a fresh set of 18650's on the charger and waiting for darkness!


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## Centrenet (Nov 19, 2011)

Hi Guys,

I still have some second thoughts on this lights regarding the charging in the bay charger. Is this charger more safe to use if you use 3x 18650 protected batteries? I understand there are lots of people who use unprotected cells in their lights. 

But this might be a light for 'the normal' audience, because the charging method is very simple, maybe too simple. So their might be a risk that also non 'flashaholics' will buy this light.....

I mean, if the protection kicks in, the battery becomes almost useless right? So if this light is sold to 'non experienced' users, in combination with protected cells, would it be more safely to use?

Thanks for your help!


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## moldyoldy (Nov 19, 2011)

*Re: Sunwayman V60C (review in progress... but now w/runtime, beamshots, pics )*



CobraMan said:


> Thanks for the great review! I have been hoping someone would provide information on the V60C ever since it was announced.
> 
> Few questions still in my mind before I commit to buying one:
> 
> ...



1 ans: The ring rotation angle is relatively short, maybe 100 degrees. Why? a long throw ring would make it more difficult to single-hand adjust the output, or at least require multiple thumb-finger twists to reach a desired level.

2. ans: No, the charger will charge the 3 18650 cells only with the light assembled. the cells cannot be charged outside of the light in the SWM charger because of the design of the charger and cell holder. For charging outside of the light, you will need a standalone charger. Pila (2-slot) or 4Sevens (1-slot) are recommended. The 4Sevens charger has both voltage and current adjustments. The Pila has no user-adjustment.

3. see other posts.


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## moldyoldy (Nov 19, 2011)

Centrenet said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I still have some second thoughts on this lights regarding the charging in the bay charger. Is this charger more safe to use if you use 3x 18650 protected batteries? I understand there are lots of people who use unprotected cells in their lights.
> 
> ...



The only questionable aspect to charging in the light is that the 3x 18650s are not individually balanced because they are charged in series. That might not make a difference with relatively new or "good" cells, but as cells age, protected cells are still strongly recommended. Note that the 600ma charge rate is very conservative for an 18650 cell - not likely to cause a problem by itself.

If the cell protection "kicks in" because of low voltage or excessive current or whatever, and cuts off the current, the illumination is also cut off - no light, suddenly. However lithium-xxx cells should never be allowed in to anything close to reverse voltage - very bad! That is why you always need protected cells for multi-cell lights using Lithium-xxx cells.

as for "low voltage", the V60 light flickers very obviously when the overall voltage is too low, noting that the total series voltage is being measured, not the voltage of individual cells. Again, the reason for individual cell protection.


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## Centrenet (Nov 21, 2011)

Hi Moldyoldy,

thanks. I've also noticed that the light starts to flicker when the voltage is too low. I've tested the V60C with two completely (protected) charged 18650's and one battery which was almost empty. Almost immediately the V60C began to flicker so I tried to charge it on the charger. After one minuted the indicator led turned green, indicating the charge 'was completed'. To I won't think the charger will overcharge the batteries as the protection circuit of the batteries kicked in, terminating the current.

I think Sunwayman would do a better job designing a charger which balances the cells individually. A lot more people would use this light then, and use it with a safer feeling.

I always use protected cells in multi-cell lights, exactly for the reason you mentioned above.


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## OpusX (Nov 25, 2011)

a newbie here, just bought the V60C with new 18860 batteries and the sunwayman charger. what the heck is a protected battery, I bought brand new so figured I was good to go, should I get a different charger that works on just the batteries alone? I thought I had everything I needed for flashlight heaven and spent just under 300 bucks to get it.
Thanks for the help

Dave


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## moldyoldy (Nov 25, 2011)

Hallo OpusX, Welcome to CPF! There is a wealth of information in the stickies at the top of the batteries forum.

Ref your questions: um, well, you are referring to 18650 cells, yes? It would help if we knew which brand of cell you purchased and the mah rating printed on the cell. Some brands offer both protected and unprotected cells.

How does the V60 operate with the cells you purchased? full brightness for a "long" time - more than 5-10 minutes? 

A protected cell has a little printed circuit board mounted on the negative end of the cell to prevent excessive discharge or even excessive charge. A small conductive strip is laid under the wrapper to the positive terminal to allow the PCB to measure the cell voltage. 18650 cells start out life as unprotected cells. subsequent manufacturing/branding adds the "protection".

You need protected Li-Ion cells in a multi-cell light! There is considerable danger in any condition that would drive a Li-Ion cell in to reverse voltage. meaning the cell is discharged so far that the other cells drive the voltage into reverse polarity. Very Bad! 

In any case, you will need a digital voltmeter to monitor the cells as they age. The Sunwayman charger is probably OK for now. and yes, eventually you will need to invest in another 18650 charger to balance out the cells. The Pila IBC dual-slot or 4Sevens single-slot charger are considered reliable.


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## Centrenet (Nov 26, 2011)

@ Moldyoldy

What if you have 3 full batteries, same brand, same mah. They're full with 4.20 volt into it. How many charges without balancing can be done without charging the batteries on an individual charger? 

I know it's a tough question, as it depends on the cells. No cell is the same.


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## moldyoldy (Nov 26, 2011)

yup, that question is tough without knowing if the cells are protected cells or not. However, in the absence of a lawyer and feeling generous with free advice: If you start out with 3 new unprotected identical cells in a Sunwayman V60, or at least identical cells of recent vintage with essentially the same usage history, and you initially measured the cell voltages at about 4.1-4.2v, and if the V60 is used for short time periods, and you routinely replace the V60 on its' charger, there should be no danger of any single cell being driven in to reverse voltage for a while. Imbalances will eventually show up but that is highly dependent on usage and cell quality.

Caveat: For hobby usage of individual Lithium-something cells, nothing can replace a routine voltage check of each individual cell. Consider that the "cost" of using these high-energy density cells.

How long is "short"? No usage long enough that has any chance of even coming close to discharging any cell in a series connection. ie: if the listed run time on max output of the V60 is 2+ hours, then using 1/4 of the capacity or a run time of 30 min should be OK. When you return from that outing, check the cell voltages. Absolutely no more than 50% of the listed run time before charging. Why only 25-50%? Most people will lose track of the operating time. You need a safety buffer! 

The repeated emphasis is to not use unprotected cells in multi-cell lights.


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## moldyoldy (Nov 26, 2011)

Not to get too far off-topic in the V60 thread: 

Here is a much-used link for voltage vs capacity in this thread. Matching up capacity vs voltage and matching with what I wrote above, that means you need to replace the V60 on its charger whenever the voltage falls below about 4v. IOW, charge often!


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## Centrenet (Dec 7, 2011)

Hi Moldyoldy,

sorry for the misunderstanding in my previous post. But I mean protected cells instead of unprotected. 

I still have some safety concerns regarding the charger. I mean, if you are a regular, non professional user, you cannot expect from 'common' people to measure their cells with a DMM often.

The V60C is unique and because of the charging dock, the light is easy to use. On the other hand, if people have to keep an eye on their batteries, is the light still easy to use then? Where's is the advantage?


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## moldyoldy (Dec 7, 2011)

Centrenet said:


> Hi Moldyoldy,
> 
> sorry for the misunderstanding in my previous post. But I mean protected cells instead of unprotected.
> 
> ...



Well, given the condition that the 3x 18650 cells are "protected" with low/high voltage cutout for individual cells, then the battery pack of the V60 is not much different than the usual closed battery systems of many electronic devices, including laptops. At some point, a shortened run time will be noticed due to some cell becoming unbalanced with a shortened life compared to the other cells. One solution then is to take out the battery pack and measure the individual cells and either charge it separately, or discard/recycle that cell. Probably the most common practice amoung closed battery systems is to replace the entire battery pack when shortened run time is bothersome.

In this case, the best recommendation is to charge often, long before any warning of low battery level or the light cuts off due to one of the protection circuits cutting off the current to protect that specific cell. 

Slightly OT, but still on LiIon cells, I have noticed that the latest laptop battery-life instructions often recommend a full discharge to cut-off once a month. However that is usually intended to re-calibrate the battery level indicator. There are also laptop manufacturers such as Fujitsu and Lenovo that will not initiate charging of the battery pack unless the indicated battery level has dropped below 90%.

Sunwayman appears to be attempting to bring what otherwise is a flashaholic's flashlight into the mainstream of flashlight users. To do that they have to somehow obviate the fuss with batteries. This system they chose will do that - and the flashaholic still has access to individual cells in the battery pack. However given that their system was evidently designed for protected 18650 cells, in my mind the greater concern should be the possible use of any non-protected cell or any non-18650 cell. Sunwayman provides plenty of warnings about that possibility.


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## Kapriel (Dec 17, 2011)

turboBB said:


> The cells don't necessarily have to be new (although it's preferable if you're using primaries) but if there was a way to measure internal resistance and match that instead of just merely the voltage or capacity then that would be the best way to ensure one is using matched cells.
> 
> In short, the methods in order of decreasing accuracy of matching cells (and again, someone please correct if you disagree):
> 1 - Internal resistance
> ...



Great review, I love this light and am thinking this is the one I want until someone mentioned the balancing of the 18650's. Is this really a concern ? I think it is but am hoping not really...

I understand that no two batteries are identical and will in fact change with time, but by removing the batteries every now and then and putting them into a special balancing charger 
will return them to what ? and for how long ? What happens exactly to the batteries does the chemistry change internally or resistance and if so how long does the effect last for ? 

If this is a big deal should one wait till a better battery pack comes along maybe something like the Olight SR series or do they have a problem too. I know the SR battery is a pack so balancing does not apply.

Every other day or so there seems to be another must have flashlight. I have bought about 12 of the rechargeable Inova T-4's over the years a great light for the money but just not what I need now. 

Any help here would be appreciated, I am currently looking to buy either the V60C or an Olight SR92 I could actually use both....


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## Kilted (Dec 17, 2011)

Kapriel said:


> Great review, I love this light and am thinking this is the one I want until someone mentioned the balancing of the 18650's. Is this really a concern ? I think it is but am hoping not really...
> 
> I understand that no two batteries are identical and will in fact change with time, but by removing the batteries every now and then and putting them into a special balancing charger
> will return them to what ? and for how long ? What happens exactly to the batteries does the chemistry change internally or resistance and if so how long does the effect last for ?
> ...



Yes, there are concerns about using LiIon 18650's but try not to over think it. Right now I am using 18650's LiIon recycled from laptop batteries. I just use them lightly and charge weekly. The SWM-V60C charger has a low enough charge rate to even keep my old a tired cells in balance. Since your on this website AND looking at high end flashlights my guess you may already have a Pila IBC charger or equivalent.

As for new cells if it really bothers you buy AW IMR 18650's and do not buy the SWM-V60C charger, just charge'em offboard. To me not buying the charger is missing half of the convenience of owning the V60C. I will have to replace my old cells soon and when I do I will continue with the process I have already adopted, light use it goes on the V60C charger, bi monthly a Pila IBC leveling charge, heavy use still use the V60C charger but more frequent Pila IBC leveling charge.

Pretty simple to me, just try not to over think it, you will give your self a headache for no good reason. OH and try not to be mesmerized by too many blinking lights (Xmas is soon here).

=D~~ Kilted


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## moldyoldy (Dec 17, 2011)

Kapriel said:


> Great review, I love this light and am thinking this is the one I want until someone mentioned the balancing of the 18650's. Is this really a concern ? I think it is but am hoping not really...
> 
> I understand that no two batteries are identical and will in fact change with time, but by removing the batteries every now and then and putting them into a special balancing charger
> will return them to what ? and for how long ? What happens exactly to the batteries does the chemistry change internally or resistance and if so how long does the effect last for ?
> ...



All battery packs made up from multiple individual cells eventually suffer from unbalanced cells resulting in shorter and shorter run times until the battery pack as a whole is recycled, or some flashaholic or techie dismantles the pack to find/replace the weak cell or two or three. In the case of the V60, the "battery pack" is not sealed and available for rebalancing any time the user so wishes. 

With new/good protected 18650 cells, and an ocassional individual cell charging session, the user will have many many hours of run time before some cell wears out - as defined by the 80% of the original capacity given by many battery manufacturers. By that time, rather than trying to resuscitate the "battery pack", one cell at a time, it would be better to simply replace all of the cells and start over. I have attempted to save battery packs one cell at a time - frankly it is a waste of time. At least the V60 has the cells easily available for testing and/or individual charging.

IOW, the V60 system with charger is useful - under conditions which are easily adhered to.


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## Kapriel (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks guys for the info. A little backround on me and my flashlight use. 
I am an HVAC tech working on construction sites and travel the 6 New England states plus NY all the way to the Canadian border. Most of the time there is no one on site and there is no light for hundreds of yards and it is dark.

I often drop my lights onto concrete slabs from a height of 5 feet or more. I always wear a fenix headlamp hp20 or 21 I forget plus have other light as a back up. One of my friends fell down an elevator shaft and got banged up pretty good. The need for a good light is imperative.
I use the lights for about 5 hours a day sometimes the lights will turn themselves on and completely discharge as they rattle around in my toolbox. They also get really hot as they have no cooling and I cant see them when they are on other times they are on full bright for extended periods until the battery and light shut off. 

It's rough work but they pay me well. The flashlight is extremely important and must work every time. Sometimes I am gone for days so the 12 volt charger works for me. The HDS light is not going to cut it the battery system is not for me.

At first I thought I wanted the SR90 to see the construction site then the SR92 came along and looked to have a better flood and not so much a thrower. The V60C looks to be a thrower but right now my main concern is battery power as these lights get a workout from bad weather to hard falls that crack the glass and ruin the bezel as it becomes out of round. 

The Inova T4's bounce pretty good but lately have gone back to Nite-Ize for repair and the 225 lumens is no way near enough for my needs. 

Multiple batteries 3 or 4 with a charger base is the way to go but so far the options are very limited. 
I really like the battery pack on the SR series but the light is massive.... maybe 1 XM-L instead of three with the 
SR battery pack would be nice but I like the variable output of the V60C 

Any help or thoughts here would greatly be appreciated.

Thanks, Kap


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## moldyoldy (Dec 17, 2011)

umm, well, since this is a V60 review thread and you are now giving good info on your needs and thereby going OT, how about opening a thread in the "LED Flashlights" section or in the "Recommend me a light for ..." section. Just copy/paste your last message as a starter for that thread. 

In the process of composing the starter msg for a new thread in those sections, you could be a bit clearer about how much spill vs throw you need. Enough more people read those sections that would respond and possibly overwhelm you with ideas. Just for a teaser, take a look at the Zebralight SC600.


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## Kilted (Dec 17, 2011)

Now that we have more information about your work I would make an alternate suggestion, Fenix TK35 and several pairs of AW LiIon or IMR 18650's with the Pila IBC charger. With the charger get the 12v plug option.

I have both the TK35 and V60C, V60C cost more and in general a very good light. The TK35 is built like a tank, the head is a big hunk of carved metal. The TK35 is cheaper and if toasted you out less $$. Use one of the cpfmarket dealers and you might get two TK35's for the price of one V60C.

The V60C will out throw the TK35, the TK35 has a wider spill and hot spot. V60C has variable light output TK35 has four levels. 

So to keep from dropping them on pavement etc how about a leash; http://www.innovativescuba.com/ look for; Retractors; there are many hook options.







=D~~ Kilted


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## Kapriel (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks guys, sorry for going off topic. I will check out those other lights. 

Thanks, Kap


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## Lonely Raven (Dec 26, 2011)

Great review and info guys!

I just got the V60C for X-mas from my fiance. I'm using it for home defense (yes, 700+ lumens in the eyes when someone is skulking about your yard works almost as well as the sound of a shotgun racking) and as a camping light. My fiance got me the charging base for it, and I went to LightHound and picked up three 3100mAh AW batteries and the Pila charger everyone is talking about. 

So far I really like the light, I just wish it had a lightly textured reflector for a little more flood. I know this is a throw light, but since it dials down to 5 lumens (seems more than that), I thought it might be a nice map reading light with more flood. If Sunwayman ever comes out with a textured reflector, I'd be the first in line!

I do wish it had a clicky button as well as the magnetic ring, but that's just because of how I intend to use the light. I know that's more of a tactical feature, and this light is designed to be a good spot-monster...but still, I like a flexible light. 

Still, this light does what I need it to, and seemed like it had most of the features I wanted. I'm looking forward to giving it a good run in my deep winter camping come January!


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## tobrien (Dec 27, 2011)

awesome review buddy!


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## Lonely Raven (Jan 10, 2012)

Update: So I was all excited to take this flashlight out camping this last weekend...and it died just before I left on Friday. 

It works when it's sitting on the charger, but doesn't work outside the charger. I tried it with three different sets of batteries, that were all tested via DVM and other flashlights. 

It looks like my carrier has failed. I just wrote Sunwayman about this issue (now that I"m back from my camping trip), lets hope they take care of me quickly and easily.

Edit to Add: Doesn't Sunwayman have a rep in this forum? I'll see if I can ping him/her.


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## RTJ (Jan 11, 2012)

It could be possible that the carrier fuse is blown. You cannot repair this, you can only replace the carrier.

Whoops, now I have second thought about what i've written above. If the carrier fuse is blown, the circuit is interrupted. So imo it shouldn't work on the charger as well when the fuse is blown.


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## turboBB (Jan 11, 2012)

@Raven - Per RTJ's reply, the carrier fuse is blown and is not repairable. You'll need a new one. Sunwayman has their own mfg forum over on CPFMP so you can post your inquiry there.

@RTJ - While the batteries are arranged in series, the carrier is designed in such a way that it's output is in parallel (to both ends of the carrier) thus allowing one to insert it either way. The center tube in the carrier is the anode path and each of the 3 supporting tubes are the cathode path. Thus despite the circuit being blown in the carrier when placed into the charging cradle, it will still allow the light to be turned on.

I'll try to diagram the carrier circuit later.

EDIT: I also managed to blow a circuit while testing but not sure how. While I totally applaud Sunwayman for placing a premium on safety, I'm not fond of this particular carrier design given the exposed "cathode rim" of the carrier (basically the base plate on each end of the carrrier). I've made a suggestion to the mfg to have a plastic rim covering the edge of the base plate to minimize risk of shorting.

Cheers,
Tim


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## jh333233 (Jan 11, 2012)

The design is quite ironic...
Says IPX-8 waterproof while leaving 2 terminals exposed


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## Geban (Jan 12, 2012)

Kilted said:


> The 24VDC charger input is for aircraft. Many aircraft power systems are 24VDC. Remember travel inverters have 12/24vdc input, check the power adapter and see if the back end unplugs for the 24VDC plane adapter.
> 
> Great job with the review!!!
> 
> =D~~ Kilted


FYI

In Europe semi trailers and large trucks use 24 VDC electric systems.


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## RTJ (Jan 12, 2012)

turboBB said:


> @Raven - Per RTJ's reply, the carrier fuse is blown and is not repairable. You'll need a new one. Sunwayman has their own mfg forum over on CPFMP so you can post your inquiry there.
> 
> @RTJ - While the batteries are arranged in series, the carrier is designed in such a way that it's output is in parallel (to both ends of the carrier) thus allowing one to insert it either way. The center tube in the carrier is the anode path and each of the 3 supporting tubes are the cathode path. Thus despite the circuit being blown in the carrier when placed into the charging cradle, it will still allow the light to be turned on.
> 
> ...



Yep. You are right. That being said, the V60C is a magnificent light. But, the batteries should be monitored each time you've charged them. In my humble opinion, I don't see the 'regular' flashlight user monitor the batteries with a DDM each time. 

So the main advantage of the light (easy to charge!) is tackled by the disadvantage of monitoring the batteries each time. And that's why I think the light is not user friendly in any way.


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## jh333233 (Jan 13, 2012)

If 3 cells are identical to each other, i.e. all new, same brand
Then charge them to a same initial voltage like 4V
And i think it would not be any problem in this case
Just like twins living under the absolutely same condition
Of course i prefer one with protective PCB in case any of them get bad


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## RTJ (Jan 13, 2012)

jh333233 said:


> If 3 cells are identical to each other, i.e. all new, same brand
> Then charge them to a same initial voltage like 4V
> And i think it would not be any problem in this case
> Just like twins living under the absolutely same condition
> Of course i prefer one with protective PCB in case any of them get bad



I do not totally agree with you. It happens that one cell has a higher internal resistance than the other ones. So it might occur that one cell stays 'behind'. The other cells will be slightly overcharged then, to make the total battery pack a total of 12.6 volts.

If you keep the cells in, and never balance them on an external charger, problems may occur in the future.


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## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS (Jan 13, 2012)

I got one of these lights coming. I got mine for $98.50 brand new from DD.


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## jh333233 (Jan 14, 2012)

RTJ said:


> I do not totally agree with you. It happens that one cell has a higher internal resistance than the other ones. So it might occur that one cell stays 'behind'. The other cells will be slightly overcharged then, to make the total battery pack a total of 12.6 volts.
> 
> If you keep the cells in, and never balance them on an external charger, problems may occur in the future.


Thats why i propose 3 identical cell, identical means they are all the same, cells with same batch/age should have same internal resistance


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## Kilted (Jan 20, 2012)

Geban said:


> FYI
> 
> In Europe semi trailers and large trucks use 24 VDC electric systems.



Thanks, I did not know that.

=D~~ Kilted


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## tpopz2908 (Mar 4, 2012)

I've had this light for almost 4 months now, and so far it has performed flawlessly!

A little background:

I manage (among other things) the night staff for 6 horse farms. We have roughly 6000 acres, 27 night employees and 600 horses. These horses are constantly monitored through the night in ALL weather conditions, needless to say, the demands on our equipment are extreme.

When I first received the light, I carried it for the first week, checked the batteries often and was careful with it. I then gave it to a select few to test, thier reaction was overwhelmingly postive with responses such as "helluva light" to "you want it back?......right!".

For about the last 2 months, it has been available to the first one who can get thier hands on it, it is always gone. I told them to just use it, don't be overprotective. Last night I noticed it had a few battle scars, so I know it has become just another light. 

Bottom line is this light has performed extremely well under some fairly harsh conditions. Everyone loves the UI and the drop-in charger, the only change I want to make is to order a few without the strobe modes, Sunwayman has assured me I can do this. I check the Batts weekly and they have all been equal, will probably replace the set annually just to be safe.


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## RTJ (Mar 5, 2012)

tpopz2908 said:


> I've had this light for almost 4 months now, and so far it has performed flawlessly!
> 
> A little background:
> 
> ...



Do you check the batteries every week? So you take them out and check them with a DMM? That's is the perfect way to handle these lights. But, can you also imagine that a lot of people will not monitor their batteries? Especially where I come from, the flashlight community isn't as big as in the US, and people are not really aware of the safety risks. They will not monitor their batteries weekly.


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## tpopz2908 (Mar 5, 2012)

RTJ said:


> Do you check the batteries every week? So you take them out and check them with a DMM? That's is the perfect way to handle these lights. But, can you also imagine that a lot of people will not monitor their batteries? Especially where I come from, the flashlight community isn't as big as in the US, and people are not really aware of the safety risks. They will not monitor their batteries weekly.



Yes, DMM weekly. Honestly, I could go 2 weeks and not worry at all, there has never been more than .01 volt difference. The light only hits the charger 1 or 2 times per week and could probably be charged even less. Battery life with this light has been suprising for real-world use. People tend to dial in only as much light as they really need, a cool side effect of the variable UI.


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## turboBB (Mar 5, 2012)

tpopz2908, thx for sharing your experience. It's always great to hear how people are putting this light to use in real life situations. The one surprising thing for me thus far was that this light has read higher than the T40CS in my lumens reading contraption (not accurate obviously but good for comparitive purposes) considering that both the ANSI lumens and throw has been rated lower for each. I'll be making a DIY IS in the near future and will update the thread with results from that reading.

Cheers,
Tim


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## Eeyore (Mar 6, 2012)

I have V60C on the way. Found a new one for a very fair price on CPFMarketplace. Here’re a few questions. How long can the light stay safely in the charger? What are the risks of leaving the light charging for a long time?

Thanks!


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## tpopz2908 (Mar 7, 2012)

Eeyore said:


> I have V60C on the way. Found a new one for a very fair price on CPFMarketplace. Here’re a few questions. How long can the light stay safely in the charger? What are the risks of leaving the light charging for a long time?
> 
> Thanks!



As I understand it, the charger terminates all voltage once the sum of the batts 12.6v(12.4 as tested), this is great and safe under ideal conditions with equal batts. That said, I take no chances with ANY lithium-ion batteries, they all come off the charger when they are charged. The odds of a failure under ideal conditions is slim, but the result of a failure can be expensive and very dangerous. A small number times a big number is still a big number and not worth the risk IMHO.


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## turboBB (Mar 8, 2012)

Sunwayman has mentioned that upon completion of charging (light turns green) it'll actually go into a trickle charge but I wasn't able to detect any current (however I didn't adjust my DMM range at that time). Either way, the current should be low enough so as not to be a concern but as tpopz2908 and I'm sure likely many others will tell you, always just best to remove the light when charging is done.

The self-discharge of LiIon batteries is very reasonable that even if left uncharged for a month after a full charge, it'll still have a decent amount of juice left in it.

I'll redo the charging again in the future to see if I can detect the trickle charge but have a bit to clear off my plate at the moment.

Cheers,
Tim


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## tpopz2908 (Mar 9, 2012)

turboBB said:


> The one surprising thing for me thus far was that this light has read higher than the T40CS in my lumens reading contraption (not accurate obviously but good for comparitive purposes) considering that both the ANSI lumens and throw has been rated lower for each.
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim



I don't have a variety of LEDs to compare the V60 to........yet, but the throw from this beast is nothing short of amazing. I have been covering a shift for a few days on one of the farms where I'm short handed. My lighting choices are:


Lumapower incendio
V60
Lightforce blitz

With these 3 lights, I can recreate daylight in almost any situation. Last night, the blitz only got plugged in when group of horses disappeared to the back of a 120acre field, the rest of the time I used the V60 for my outside checks.


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## dallan (Dec 24, 2012)

I had this in my cart, really like the look and idea of it. Ended with the V11R but still am looking at stronger more full sized and am about to get this one. My question is, what other lights would compare to this, one bulb only? Thanks.


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## turboBB (Dec 29, 2012)

While there are other multi-cell, single emitter throwers, I can't think of any other with a fully variable control ring that would compare to the V60C and that features a charging capability (even if external). Perhaps others can chime in here.


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## dallan (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks, I got it! It's great, kills my friends fenix whenwe compared. I am waiting for the charger even though i read some concerning reviews about it. Hopefully it will work alright. 

My current collection is now up to the Sunwayman V11R, Surefire 9P that i got years ago, a Led Lenser, and a brookstone mini waterproof light from a while back. The V60C is way over any of my expectations from those that i own.


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## holylight (Feb 15, 2013)

good review as usual. tyvm


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