# HID flashlights? (not weird, expensive, anti-aircraft lights)



## lumen aeternum (May 12, 2017)

This sub forum seems to be dominated by the weird hobbyist stuff. Which is fine for enthusiasts, but makes it hard to find info on "practical" OEM light choices.

If I want to see what an HID is all about, what can I buy in a flashlight form factor (say the size of a Mag Lite, with a nice big diameter reflector for throwing a pencil beam), without a second mortgage??


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## archimedes (Nov 13, 2017)

lumen aeternum said:


> This sub forum seems to be dominated by the weird hobbyist stuff. Which is fine for enthusiasts, but makes it hard to find info on "practical" OEM light choices.
> 
> If I want to see what an HID is all about, what can I buy in a flashlight form factor (say the size of a Mag Lite, with a nice big diameter reflector for throwing a pencil beam), without a second mortgage??



Except for the "weird hobbyist stuff" as you put it, HID has been surpassed by advancing LED tech over the past few years, thus the following are all discontinued (but might be found second-hand) ...

• Macs MiniHID (I have one of these)

• Fire-Foxes (several runs, but I have an FF-III)

• JiL Lite EZNite (I want one)


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## Joseph35w (Nov 13, 2017)

Or the Arc series of Surefire hid lights but there really expensive like $1,999 on B&H photo-video


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## lumen aeternum (Nov 14, 2017)

This one also claims 8500 Lm & has a retro looking heat sink on the head https://www.ebay.com/itm/8500-Lumen...d=181681671861&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982 If they really put out 8500 Lm for more than a few minutes, the price seems reasonable per lumen.


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## StarHalo (Nov 14, 2017)

HID is pretty much weird hobbyist stuff, it's not very practical; you can't turn it on/off rapidly, you have to wait for it to warm up to full output, the beam is dangerously hot near the reflector, you have to wear gloves to handle the bulb, etc. Monstrous floody spill while still lighting up things a quarter mile away never gets old though..


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## Joseph35w (Nov 14, 2017)

Or a Nighthunter 2 it looks like the Maglite looked itself in the mirror and said "Where's my led bulb???"


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## FRITZHID (Nov 14, 2017)

I'd have to agree with starhalo, HID is quickly going the way of the dodo.  
It still has its place in some aspects but for the most part, it's not an economically viable product. 
There will always be a few of us die-hard HID fans but like Star pointed out, LED has excelled well into the HIDs performance range with lower costs and power requirements, as well as better user formats. To truly surpass LED, one needs to step up to xenon short arc lights in order to avoid the dreaded HID warm-up/cool-down times and still retain HIDs throw (over LED), but now you're talking much higher expense and user expertise to operate and maintain. Not to mention the safety hazards associated with HID/xenon SA. (High voltage, UV exposure, fire, etc.)


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## NoNotAgain (Nov 14, 2017)

StarHalo said:


> HID is pretty much weird hobbyist stuff, it's not very practical; you can't turn it on/off rapidly, you have to wait for it to warm up to full output, the beam is dangerously hot near the reflector, you have to wear gloves to handle the bulb, etc. Monstrous floody spill while still lighting up things a quarter mile away never gets old though..



I totally disagree that HID lights are hobbyist stuff. Please show me one LED flashlight that can run full powered for more than 15 minutes before the thermal circuit cuts the power back to keep the LED from overheating. 

I've probably got 10 different HID lights. Of those 10, only 2 have a significant warm up, but even then, less than 10 seconds to full output. 

The longest warm up light I've got is the FireFoxes FF4. It's the same size as the TM15. The FF4 takes about 10 seconds to stabilize indicted by the light color. 

My Polarion PH40, and the Polarion Night Reaper, from the push of the button developed full brightness in less than 2 seconds. The great thing is that the lights put out 3000 and 5000 lumens till the battery goes flat. 

As for bulb handling and replacement, IMO, it's a non-issue. 

The only HID/short ARC light I've had to replace a bulb on was one of the Maxa Beam generation 2 lights when used with the higher powered lithium ion pack and latching high. 

The Xeononics Night Hunter 2 lights aren't a good deal since Xeononics went bust a few months back and the Night Hunter 2 is an obsolete light with crappy batteries. Good luck finding replacements. Yep, it looks like a Mag Light on steroids, but not a very good light. The Night Hunter 3 corrected the battery issue and changed the appearance of the light. 

The Night Hunter 1 if a newer model is a pretty nice light provided it's NiMH or lithium powered. They're easy enough to make a lithium battery pack for or selecting the right RC pack and use a hobby charger. 

My two favorites are the Maxa Beam and the Night Hunter 1 for the beam adjustability. Going from pin point to wide is either a twist of the wrist or the push of a button. Try that with a LED?


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## XeRay (Nov 14, 2017)

StarHalo said:


> HID is pretty much weird hobbyist stuff, it's not very practical; you can't turn it on/off rapidly



Only true for the cheap Chinese stuff, the high end HID lights $1,500 plus don't have this limitation. Strobing is not a problem.

FRIZHID: Hand held!! Short arc's are only practical for "sniper" (hot spot is too small otherwise and no spill) type uses and for wow factor, Metal Halide HID is more practical for search and rescue, powerline inspection etc. LED is not useful at long ranges. Each of the 3 technologies have their place and applications where they are the best suited technology. I would agree that LED has more everyday practical application for the masses (99.9%) of users. I would say Short arc Xenon has the least number of practical applications for the broad spectrum of users.


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## archimedes (Nov 14, 2017)

NoNotAgain said:


> I totally disagree that HID lights are hobbyist stuff. *Please show me one LED flashlight that can run full powered for more than 15 minutes before the thermal circuit cuts the power back to keep the LED from overheating*....



I am guessing that you mean among ultra-high powered lights ?

Malkoff, among others, are designed to run at full power continuously without thermal throttling.


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## Joseph35w (Nov 14, 2017)

Hey Xeray you still them DL-50 fatboys, I have a 15 amp dc powersupply and with 75w put in the lightbox, I think the 15 amp (200w) AC/DC should do more than what the 75w usaullly can achieve


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## FRITZHID (Nov 14, 2017)

Joseph35w said:


> Hey Xeray you still them DL-50 fatboys, I have a 15 amp dc powersupply and with 75w put in the lightbox, I think the 15 amp (200w) AC/DC should do more than what the 75w usaullly can achieve




Careful, most HID Ballasts do NOT like being overvoltaged by much.


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## lumen aeternum (Nov 15, 2017)

Discussion & nice beamshots of FF4, that ebay style, and several others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbbT4vFO0Dg The ebay light he thinks is maybe actually 3500 Lm -- but for $110, if it maintains for 30 minutes, that's pretty cheap. things like the FireFox are probably good builds for the high money -- but are they "production" lights or one-run hobby customs?


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## The_Driver (Nov 15, 2017)

lumen aeternum said:


> If I want to see what an HID is all about, what can I buy in a flashlight form factor (say the size of a Mag Lite, with a nice big diameter reflector for throwing a pencil beam), without a second mortgage??



A good HID is expensive. The technology is a bit more complicated if you want it to be good. I think the Firefoxes FF4 would be the only quality HID light in the flashlight form factor that is not too expensive. You might be able to find it used. It's not suited for professional (rough, long-term) use though which is where HID lights really excel. 

So if you want the latter it will need to be Xeray/Lemax or Polarion.


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## XeRay (Nov 15, 2017)

Joseph35w said:


> Hey Xeray you still them DL-50 fatboys, I have a 15 amp dc powersupply and with 75w put in the lightbox, I think the 15 amp (200w) AC/DC should do more than what the 75w usaullly can achieve



Yes, we still have a substantial stock of them.


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## NoNotAgain (Nov 15, 2017)

archimedes said:


> I am guessing that you mean among ultra-high powered lights ?
> 
> Malkoff, among others, are designed to run at full power continuously without thermal throttling.



I'm referring to a light that puts out 2000 plus lumens. 

I've got the Fenix TK75 in three flavors, 2600,2900, and 4000 lumens same goes for Nitecore Tiny Monsters and Olight SR92 and Sr95. 

LED lights have made great strides, but for continuous use, HID has it over LED lights.


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## PolarLi (Nov 16, 2017)

The LED cooling issue is easy enough to solve with fan cooling. There is a few flashlights on the market already, and more is coming. I've always been a firm believer in that setup, and I own a fan cooled LED headlamp, so I know it works.


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## dariman3 (Nov 18, 2017)

PolarLi said:


> The LED cooling issue is easy enough to solve with fan cooling. There is a few flashlights on the market already, and more is coming. I've always been a firm believer in that setup, and I own a fan cooled LED headlamp, so I know it works.



Let's hear more about this headlamp! If you don't mind.


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## PolarLi (Nov 18, 2017)

Lamp is called Moonlight Bright As Day 3000. (3000lm) The version I have is discontinued, and replaced by a new 5000 lm version. You also get one with 10000lm. 
The big plus IMO, beside high, continuous output, is low weight. You save a lot of heatsinking with active cooling. But of course, the battery pack is still pretty big and heavy, 8x18650...


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## lumen aeternum (Nov 19, 2017)

PolarLi said:


> Lamp is called Moonlight Bright As Day 3000. (3000lm) The version I have is discontinued, and replaced by a new 5000 lm version. You also get one with 10000lm. The big plus IMO, beside high, continuous output, is low weight. You save a lot of heatsinking with active cooling. But of course, the battery pack is still pretty big and heavy, 8x18650...


 Link? ALl I find is a scandinavian site selling a multi-LED lamp to be mounted on a skiing helment https://www.tromsoskiogsykkel.no/ski/utstyr/lykter/moonlight-bright-as-day-10000-hodelykt


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## PolarLi (Nov 19, 2017)

lumen aeternum said:


> Link? ALl I find is a scandinavian site selling a multi-LED lamp to be mounted on a skiing helment https://www.tromsoskiogsykkel.no/ski/utstyr/lykter/moonlight-bright-as-day-10000-hodelykt




Try this: https://moonlight.global/headlamps
They are sold with headband as standards AFAIK. When I bought mine, the helmet mount was extra. Not sure what is in the standard package right now and the website is lacking a lot of info.


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## Polarion-Sparetech2 (Nov 27, 2017)

I agree with NoNotAgain, HID lights are alive and well, if not for everyone. They are widely sold to police departments, industrial operations, power plants, mines, search and rescue, anything that requires long range illumination. I can't comment about China knockoffs but the Polarion lights are well made products with available spare parts, manuals, batteries, etc. I think it's the same with US made lights. 

For walking your dog, HID are overkill. For inspecting rail roads or utility lines, I can't see LED being of any help. It's all about matching the need to the light. I don't see LEDs every reaching the same flux and throw with a reasonable form factor.


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## night.hoodie (Aug 8, 2018)

archimedes said:


> Except for the "weird hobbyist stuff" as you put it, HID has been surpassed by advancing LED tech over the past few years, thus the following are all discontinued (but might be found second-hand) ...
> 
> • Macs MiniHID (I have one of these)
> 
> ...



I am with the OP, curious about HID in a smaller flashlight format. I am probably overly swayed by how attractive the host is, and among the options listed in this thread, you listed the most attractive. Among these, Macs MiniHID is really the only one I am interested in. There are not many of these, but there have been sales threads before.

Since you have one, perhaps you can enlighten me.

How bright is that thing? 
What is its expected runtime? 
What is the availability and cost of replacing the Solarc 10W lamp and ballast (if necessary)?
How long will that lamp survive?
(before I post in WTB) How much do you want for it? :devil: (PM me if you can part with it)
If it is not to be... what is recommended in LED that blows it away in brightness/throw in a similarly attractive format host? Any single LED setups that are thousands of lumens? (gave away my BLF boxed 18650 stainless & 14500 copper lights... did not impress me... especially hated was the blue LED in tailcap that cannot be turned off... my hands are not skilled enough to remove such a thing)


thx archimedes, peace to your nations.


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## broadgage (Aug 11, 2018)

IMHO, HID portable lighting is a dying technology.
By no means dead yet, but dying, yes.

LEDs are already the equal of many smaller HIDs and are still improving, HID is unlikely to improve much because limited demand means that no significant research into improvements can be justified.


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## night.hoodie (Aug 11, 2018)

broadgage said:


> LEDs are already the equal of many smaller HIDs and are still improving, HID is unlikely to improve much because limited demand means that no significant research into improvements can be justified.



That has been made clear earlier in the thread. What is overlooked is the number of emitters required to equal HID output. I know there are single LED's that can put out even more lumens than HID, but are there any flashlights (portable discrete hand carried tools) available that utilize them? I am only aware of flashlights that equal or best HIDs requiring multiple emitters, sometimes what seems like an absurd amount of emitters. I can accept that some appreciate these solutions, but the true equal to HID in LED will be with a single emitter. Those emitters exist. Have they found their way into any commercially available flashlights?


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## Dynacolt_2 (Oct 8, 2018)

I have one of the original MiniHIDs coupled with burnt_retinas’s 123a regulator and it’s still my favourite light to show off a pencil beam.
Don’t worry that it’s using a stock Mag head and standard-sized reflector - the tiny point-source gives it an incredibly tight focussed beam light a lightsaber, and all in a form factor shorter than a stock 2D Mag. HID still holds its own for sure in some aspects  

Dave.


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