# This is how my Surefire A2 became my favorite light



## el_Pablo (Aug 2, 2013)

Hello guys,

I always been looking with interest the Surefire A2 aviator, not only because of the advantage of an incandescence bulb that is regulated (only few regulated incan out here), neither because of the tailcap masterpiece, that allow you 4 differents modes + LOTC. No, i really was interested in the ability to change between 100 lumens from an incan to 30 lumens from 3 LED.

I have to say that i have been really lucky lately with Surefire old stock hunting here in Europe. I was able to find 3 NIB A2-HA-WH for almost nothing (not the 4 flats version, the newer).

I start looking what has been done on this light in CPF, this amazing database. Then wanted an Aviatrix multimodes LED ring, dead end on this project.
found Onion ring from Koala, ordered 1 ring, single mode, 2-3ma to 40ma to led, regulated, contain a led driver, so doesnt need resistor for each type of led (red, UV, blue etc...)
I was able to use my user dedicated A2 intensively during my month of army duty (militia system here in Switzerland), this light had the onion ring from Koala installed, with 3 Nichia 140° warm white led (2 die per LED, max 70ma const.) I mostly use the incan beam for vehicle check-point inspection at night, or for medium range spotter (50yard-ish), i loved how white was the beam. We where changing from one bunker to another bunker almost every 2-3 days, often coming in our section dorm (triple bunk bed...) with small groups splitted, late during night or early morning, i found that the nichia WW LED were just awesome, in comparaison with some chinese angry blue LED flashlights from my buddies. Everything seemed more soft, more contrasted. Only downside, not enought throw, 140° its a lot for 5mm LED, a real flooder.

Then i was lucky enought again to be able to receive 2 Calipsoii multimodes led ring from Canada, knowing that the sales thread was close for almost a year. (thanks again Mike!)

I order the semi finished version of it, i wanted to be able to install my own LED (snobby i know...), i found the perfect led that i wanted, Nichia released them not so long ago, they are the same as the flooder before (2 die per led, max 70ma - 26lumens) BUT this time with 35° angle and still in Warm white (2900-3300K)

im going to skip long detail on Calipsoii led rings (you can find all the information in this forum), but basically there is a micro-controller that allows you to switch between 2 led to 1, works with power pulse from the tailcap, and allows you to choose the intensity of each mode with a ramping mode.

i Wanted one ring with 2x WW nichia 35° + 1x Red from nichia too. and the other led ring with 2x WW nichia 35° + 1x Yellow/green (Calipsoii source).

Here is the unfinished multi-mode led ring, note the little SMD resistor.







here is the led ring with the 3 SMD resistor soldered and the 3 led soldered (2WW + 1Y/G)







look at the size of this SMD componant, you better not to be shaking.







Left Calipsoii multimode, center Koala onion ring (off, too bright for the picture), right Calipsoii multimode






another angle







left Koala onion ring, the rest Calipsoii multimode, first with 2 Warm white in lowest mode, next to the red on his lowest too.






Here you can see the temperature difference between the same Nichia 35°(*NSDL570GS-K1 F3-6 P8-10)* in cool white and the Warm white version (note that the left has 3 LED at 40ma, its the koala onion ring, on the right its the Calipsoii multimode, with 2 Warm white lit at 30ma)





the following beamshots are taken at 4 feet from a white textured wall (led on max setup):

Yellow/green, not too ringy (sand blasted, then slightly polished), i like how throwy is the beam.





Nichia RED (*NSPR510GS Rp U/T)*, no artefact, beautiful! (note the center spot sandy texture, its my wall texture)






Nichia warm white 35°, best beam i have seen on 5mm led, and very powerful too. (on 5 led, not much color variation between them, but if you order them in cool white, you should order more samples, because color variation are more important from one led to another)





I hope this make you want to search for your old A2 aviator, in my opinion this light is a perfect all-arounder.

I did not mention that i found a Strion bi-pin kit for it, from Fivemega, in the Market place (lucky again).
The spot is more intense, and throw considerably further, but i believe that the life of the bulb will be shorter than a original SF LA. (still Strion bulb cost 9USD here, i still consider it a nice uprade)

I run all these lights on 2x 16340 IMR (550ma) from AW (35-40 min on strion bulb, 10 hours on LED)


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## samuraishot (Aug 2, 2013)

Wonderful write up! Makes me want to grab some A2s again


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## archimedes (Aug 2, 2013)

Excellent review and photos, on one of my all-time favorite torches :thumbsup:

By the way, why do you use IMR in your modded A2, instead of (protected) RCR123A ?


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## WilsonCQB1911 (Aug 2, 2013)

Won't the high voltage of the li-ions kill the light? Can the electronics handle it? And if they can, I figured you'd be overdriving the LEDs and the Incan bulb something fierce.


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## Echo63 (Aug 2, 2013)

WilsonCQB1911 said:


> Won't the high voltage of the li-ions kill the light? Can the electronics handle it? And if they can, I figured you'd be overdriving the LEDs and the Incan bulb something fierce.


The Incan bulb is regulated - and stock LEDS will be slightly overdriven - but the Koala led ring, and possibly the Calipsoli (I'm not sure, I haven't read into it) are fine with the extra voltage


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## WilsonCQB1911 (Aug 3, 2013)

Echo63 said:


> The Incan bulb is regulated - and stock LEDS will be slightly overdriven - but the Koala led ring, and possibly the Calipsoli (I'm not sure, I haven't read into it) are fine with the extra voltage



For me it appears to be a moot point. I can't fit my AW RCRs in.


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## el_Pablo (Aug 3, 2013)

archimedes said:


> Excellent review and photos, on one of my all-time favorite torches :thumbsup:
> 
> By the way, why do you use IMR in your modded A2, instead of (protected) RCR123A ?



Thanks,

I decide to use IMR, because they Handle better (more runtime) the 1.3a load of the Incan lamp, in comparison with a RCR.
Second reason is that I had a wrapping failure with RCR keeppower, the wrapping got damaged at the bottom of the light, and made a direct short with the voltage sensing tab on the RCR, luckily for me the overload protection of the battery kick in on time, but the batty was really warm, and got discarded.

Less risk and more runtime with IMR on a A2.


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## el_Pablo (Aug 3, 2013)

Echo63 said:


> The Incan bulb is regulated - and stock LEDS will be slightly overdriven - but the Koala led ring, and possibly the Calipsoli (I'm not sure, I haven't read into it) are fine with the extra voltage



Exactly, both led ring are taking care of the extra voltage, while the Incan regulator handle with no problem the extra voltage.

For me koala ring is a no brainer, you press and get a nice amount of light regulated. Each led driven at 40ma max

Calipsoii ring as the possibilty to use two different color and ramp between different mode with a really good user friendly software. Each led driven at 25-30 ma max.

They are both totally complementary and depends on your preference.


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## ampdude (Aug 3, 2013)

WilsonCQB1911 said:


> For me it appears to be a moot point. I can't fit my AW RCRs in.



The protected RCR's usually won't fit, the A2's body specs are fairly tight. The IMR's fit as they are the same size as CR123A's (unlike the fatter RCR's) and are a better choice anyways for the current draw.


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## archimedes (Aug 3, 2013)

At what voltage are your IMR, when you lose the (regulated) incandescent lamp ?


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## ampdude (Aug 3, 2013)

I've never run them low enough to find out. I believe you're not supposed to run IMR's below 2.5V though. I think the A2's lamp is around 4.0V-4.2V or something like that, so by the time the lamp shuts off, the batteries would be pretty dead. Might be an interesting experiment to try out. I might try just running mine on the IMR's and see how long they go. I think the A2's lamp shuts off typically before CR123A's reach 2.8V, IIRC but I think that's more to do with them running out of energy under load than voltage.


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## el_Pablo (Aug 3, 2013)

ampdude said:


> I've never run them low enough to find out. I believe you're not supposed to run IMR's below 2.5V though. I think the A2's lamp is around 4.0V-4.2V or something like that, so by the time the lamp shuts off, the batteries would be pretty dead. Might be an interesting experiment to try out. I might try just running mine on the IMR's and see how long they go. I think the A2's lamp shuts off typically before CR123A's reach 2.8V, IIRC but I think that's more to do with them running out of energy under load than voltage.




For what I remember, it was 2.38v just after the regulation drop (suddenly yellow color and low output).

and after few minutes of resting, they will come back to 2.55-2.6v
on IMR 16340


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## ampdude (Aug 3, 2013)

It's been several years since I used an A2 for long enough to kill a set of batteries, but I remember the incan "low" mode, which pretty much means the batteries are finished. Thanks for the info.


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## archimedes (Aug 3, 2013)

el_Pablo said:


> For what I remember, it was 2.38v just after the regulation drop (suddenly yellow color and low output).
> 
> and after few minutes of resting, they will come back to 2.55-2.6v
> on IMR 16340



That's lower than I would want to go .... Thanks for the info.


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## el_Pablo (Aug 4, 2013)

archimedes said:


> That's lower than I would want to go .... Thanks for the info.



I will double check again this week, but if you stop when you drop out of regulation, you still are in the spec for the IMR, back to 2.5-2.6v after few minutes.

the nice thing about it, is that if you have to go below that voltage, and destroy your 6usd cells, you can do it.
it's nice in case of emergency. For what I know, the problems can start if you try to recharge a lower than spec depleted cell. If you know you went too far for emergency situation, you can just discard the cells.


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## ampdude (Aug 4, 2013)

I usually put shallow discharges on my cells. If you do happen to drain it down to 2.5-2.6v I recommend recharging it again as soon as possible.


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## Filip (Aug 5, 2013)

el Pablo, now you only need the tailstanding shroud (http://www.oveready.com/a-upgrades/...ng-shroud-for-z62-l1/l2/lx2/a2-/prod_315.html) .


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## jamie.91 (Aug 5, 2013)

Now I want an A2 more than ever :duh:


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## el_Pablo (Aug 5, 2013)

archimedes said:


> That's lower than I would want to go .... Thanks for the info.




I run the light to the end of incan regulation, the 2x IMR were at 2.7v after 30sec (time to take them out and hook the multimeter)

actually better than what i remember.


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## mhs (Aug 5, 2013)

I also have A2 with Calipsoii multimode LED ring, 2 warm white + 1 red. I frosted all LEDs and now the low beam is very floody and smooth. I use RCR123s in it but I never let them deplete to the point incan fall out of regulation. I check voltage often and recharge if it's less than 3,8 V per cell. For backup, I carry 2 lithium 123 primaries and 1 or 2 16650s. Voltage from 1 Li-Ion is not enough to power incan regulator( I get ~30 s regulated runtime), but each 16650 has 2 Ah and using only LEDs gives very long runtime in emergency situation. I had many higher power LED flashlights, but they just can't compete with Aviator's versatility, it's my favorite light too :thumbsup:.


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## ampdude (Aug 6, 2013)

el_Pablo said:


> I run the light to the end of incan regulation, the 2x IMR were at 2.7v after 30sec (time to take them out and hook the multimeter)
> 
> actually better than what i remember.



That's good to hear, shouldn't be any problem running it down when you need to then. Always good to recharge them asap though.


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## el_Pablo (Aug 8, 2013)

Few measurements :

Strion current draw from 2 fresh SF 123A at the tail = 1.6A

SF stock bulb current draw from 2 fresh SF123A at the tail = 1.2A

Strion current draw from 2 fresh IMR AW 16340 at the tail = 0.9A (thanks a lot to the A2 regulator!)

Runtime on 2 IMR freshly charged at 4.2v down to 2.7v (incan regulation drop off) with Strion kit from fivemega = 37 Minute

Runtime on fresh 2 SF 123A until SF stock incan regulation drop off = 53 Minute


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## archimedes (Aug 8, 2013)

el_Pablo said:


> Few measurements ....



Thanks very much for posting these. Any chance you might be able to check current draw on AW RCR123A (ICR), for comparison?


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## fivemega (Aug 8, 2013)

el_Pablo said:


> Strion current draw from 2 fresh SF 123A at the tail = 1.6A
> 
> SF stock bulb current draw from 2 fresh SF123A at the tail = 1.2A



*You can't really measure actual current on puls system at tail side. You will get wrong readings.*


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## Bicycleflyer (Aug 8, 2013)

Fivemega,

Any chance you will ever sell the A2 strion socket again?


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## el_Pablo (Aug 8, 2013)

fivemega said:


> *You can't really measure actual current on puls system at tail side. You will get wrong readings.*



Thanks for the info, I must use a true RMS multimeter, or an oscilloscope?

i may ask too if you will ever restart a strion kit for A2?


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## Echo63 (Aug 9, 2013)

WilsonCQB1911 said:


> For me it appears to be a moot point. I can't fit my AW RCRs in.


I had to take the labels off my AW cells, and slightly sand/polish the inside of my A2 to make them fit
10 mins work to improve the A2 a lot


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## koala (Aug 9, 2013)

Hello Pablo,
Peak start current of a incan bulb can be as much as 10 times the norminal current so it mess up readings. Also the A2 circuitry is PWM voltage regulation. Best is to use oscilloscope and some math. It really depends if you want to take in account of the peak start current to the total consumption. Its very short instance so its negligible. For circuits designers its important to spec parts which can handle the peak demands.

Your measurement of 1.2A and 1.6A between the two bulbs shows you the slightest accuracy you can picture. The results really depends on the filtering of your DMM current input and averaging function. 



el_Pablo said:


> Thanks for the info, I must use a true RMS multimeter, or an oscilloscope?


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## sween1911 (Aug 9, 2013)

Whoa, we're still talking about the A2? Nice! One of my favorites. You've got a nice setup, Pablo. Glad to hear it's serving you well. I need to get an Onion Ring for mine. So many toys, so little money in the toy fund.


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## ampdude (Aug 9, 2013)

Echo63 said:


> I had to take the labels off my AW cells, and slightly sand/polish the inside of my A2 to make them fit
> 10 mins work to improve the A2 a lot



But you'll get better runtime with the IMR's... I don't recommend sanding the inside, why loosen up the battery tube when you don't have to?


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## el_Pablo (Aug 9, 2013)

Thanks Koala for this explanation!

Here is the picture from HJK website for comparaison betweem AW 16340 IMR and RCR.

load of 1A on the graph, so for the A2, it will be even a bigger difference.








Thanks to HJK for building this database!


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## novice (Aug 9, 2013)

I use Tenergy 'blue-label' '3 volt' RCR123a cells in mine. They need the dedicated Tenergy charger. Have never done a runtime test. There are two layers of wrap on the cells. If you are careful, you can take the outer label wrap off, leaving an inner clear wrap intact. There's barely enough ID to be able to get them in/out of the A2 body without modification, but it can be done. I started with the Tenergy cells before I got Koala's onion ring, to reduce the risk of damage to the stock led ring. I like having option of doing plug-and-play choices with Koala's ring using any of my leds, including UV. They are all sanded, and will produce a wonderful beam quality. The nichia warm-whites I have in one started off being floody, and now collectively produce a 'warm fog'.


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## Echo63 (Aug 10, 2013)

ampdude said:


> But you'll get better runtime with the IMR's... I don't recommend sanding the inside, why loosen up the battery tube when you don't have to?


Its already done on mine, and the inside is nicely polished and shiny now !

also, i already have a set of AW black cells that fit perfectly, i havent got any IMR cells yet (havent needed them yet)

EDIT - 
el Pablo - I just peeled of the silver sticker on my AW cells, - not the black heatshrink.
i will be careful with them though, I don't want my light turning into a bomb


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## el_Pablo (Aug 10, 2013)

Be careful with RCR, because of their construction, they have a positive tabe that goes from positive to negative under the wrapping. 






The risk is if your wrapping is damaged (by the body, wear etc...) it will create a direct short to the body tube (negative)

If you are lucky the overload protection of your cell will trip in, if not, your light will begin to be a pipe bombe.

In my case the cell tube of the A2 was maybe too rough for battery wrapping (its was a tight fit) the battery got really hot in few seconds, and luckily the protection kick in on time.

Here you can see where the short occurred, in the most fragile area of the wrapping.










the cell was discarded. Then i switched to 16340 AW IMR, same size as CR123 and safer chemistry + safer design + better runtime.


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## el_Pablo (Dec 29, 2013)

Latest addition, tailcap standing ability!
Thanks to a UK member for his machining work!


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## archimedes (Dec 29, 2013)

Color-coded tailcaps ... very nice :thumbsup:


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## Brasso (Dec 29, 2013)

If FiveMega ever made some more strion sockets for them and you could get some nice warm nichia rings I'd get another one. Still an awesome light though. Still better than the A2L too. They really screwed the pooch with that one. It has so much potential, but they killed it with crappy leds.


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## el_Pablo (Dec 29, 2013)

Brasso said:


> If FiveMega ever made some more strion sockets for them and you could get some nice warm nichia rings I'd get another one. Still an awesome light though.



About the strion kit, I spent at least 10x IMR 16340 in it, and the bulb start to get darkened, then I measured the same output than a standard A2 bulb on my sphere. In my opinion you get I nice boost of output with the strion in the beginning, but past X hours of life, it decrease fast, if I remember well, the Strion bulb is slightly over driven in the A2.

I must try the lumens factory replacement bulb for the A2.

For the warm 5mm nichia, you should try this reference, and order koala onion ring (still in production) : http://www.leds.de/en/Ordinary-LEDs...chia-5mm-LED-warmwhite-21lm-NSDL510GS-K1.html


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## Eric242 (Dec 29, 2013)

The red shroud is a nice addition to your A2 :thumbsup: I had a lumens factory A2 bulb in mine and liked it better than the original bulb for it´s nicer beam. I´ve never seen the strion though.

Cheers
Eric


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## ampdude (Dec 29, 2013)

I had the same problem with the Strion bulbs in and E2e kit running on a P17670 (the 3.7v the bulb was designed for). All of mine went dark after a short amount of use. It's not so much that the Strion bulbs are overdriven, and more that they just suck.

The Lumen's Factory bulbs tend to have the same problem, but don't go dark quite as fast. The SF bulbs are the only ones that tend to stay clear over time because of the xenon-halogen cycle. Nowadays I only use the SF lamps in the A2. Not quite as bright as the Strion or LF bulbs at first, but it's a better tradeoff IMO.


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## el_Pablo (Dec 29, 2013)

ampdude said:


> I had the same problem with the Strion bulbs in and E2e kit running on a P17670 (the 3.7v the bulb was designed for). All of mine went dark after a short amount of use. It's not so much that the Strion bulbs are overdriven, and more that they just suck.
> 
> The Lumen's Factory bulbs tend to have the same problem, but don't go dark quite as fast. The SF bulbs are the only ones that tend to stay clear over time because of the xenon-halogen cycle. Nowadays I only use the SF lamps in the A2.



Ahhhh interesting, you mean that strion and lumens factory aren't filled with xeno but another inert gas? Other quality factors in favor of SF lamp assembly?

I ordered 2 lumens factory for my A2, I will try them out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## tobrien (Dec 29, 2013)

el_Pablo said:


> About the strion kit, I spent at least 10x IMR 16340 in it, and the bulb start to get darkened, then I measured the same output than a standard A2 bulb on my sphere. In my opinion you get I nice boost of output with the strion in the beginning, but past X hours of life, it decrease fast, if I remember well, the Strion bulb is slightly over driven in the A2.
> 
> I must try the lumens factory replacement bulb for the A2.
> 
> For the warm 5mm nichia, you should try this reference, and order koala onion ring (still in production) : http://www.leds.de/en/Ordinary-LEDs...chia-5mm-LED-warmwhite-21lm-NSDL510GS-K1.html



thanks for that link! I wish I could find a US retailer of those, dang.

edit: this thread is amazing, I can't wait to get a Koala ring and mimic what you did Pablo!


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## el_Pablo (Dec 30, 2013)

Tobrien, 

If you need help to get these led, feel free to come back to me via PM


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## tobrien (Dec 30, 2013)

el_Pablo said:


> Tobrien,
> 
> If you need help to get these led, feel free to come back to me via PM



PM sent, thank you


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## fivemega (Dec 30, 2013)

el_Pablo said:


> if I remember well, the Strion bulb is slightly over driven in the A2.



*Strion bulb is slightly over driven in the A2 all the time while same bulb driven at spec in Strion flashlight at beginning then gradually starts to get dimmer and dimmer. So if expected life in Strion flashlight is 40~50 hours, it obviously will have less life in A2 flashlight and that's why it runs whiter.
If you are after longer bulb life then Stinger bulb will work much longer for you at expense of slightly yellower beam color.*


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## ampdude (Dec 31, 2013)

el_Pablo said:


> Ahhhh interesting, you mean that strion and lumens factory aren't filled with xeno but another inert gas? Other quality factors in favor of SF lamp assembly?



I don't know about the strion bulbs, but I was told the LF are filled with xenon only. So if that is the case, they fail to use the halogen cycle. I suspect the strion bulbs do not contain halogen either since they darken so fast.

Also be careful tightening down the LF version, they have a longer contact and after using them with the A2 you might have some contact problems with the factory lamps.


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## el_Pablo (Jan 1, 2014)

fivemega said:


> *Strion bulb is slightly over driven in the A2 all the time while same bulb driven at spec in Strion flashlight at beginning then gradually starts to get dimmer and dimmer. So if expected life in Strion flashlight is 40~50 hours, it obviously will have less life in A2 flashlight and that's why it runs whiter.
> If you are after longer bulb life then Stinger bulb will work much longer for you at expense of slightly yellower beam color.*



Thanks for this information complement, it does make sense, and confirm our observation! I still love the strion socket for the A2, many people around here wish to have a new batch ;-)


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## el_Pablo (Jan 5, 2014)

took out my Intergrated sphere, and did some measurements:

- A2 2x 16340 IMR Stock Surefire Bulb (new) = 88 OTF lumens
- A2 2x 16340 IMR FM socket with Strion (_15ish hours, visibly darkened bulb_) = 73 OTF lumens
- C2 2x CR123 (new) P60 (new) = 77 OTF lumens

both A2 had one led lit, with minimal setting on (doesn't affect the results here)

I will receive soon the LF bulb for the A2, it will be interesting.

I still have to buy a NEW Strion bulb, to have is T0 output.


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## tobrien (Jan 5, 2014)

el_Pablo said:


> took out my Intergrated sphere, and did some measurements:
> 
> - A2 2x 16340 IMR Stock Surefire Bulb (new) = 88 OTF lumens
> - A2 2x 16340 IMR FM socket with Strion (_15ish hours, visibly darkened bulb_) = 73 OTF lumens
> ...



thanks for those measurements!


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## StudFreeman (Jan 5, 2014)

Thanks for the measurements el_Pablo.



el_Pablo said:


> Thanks for this information complement, it does make sense, and confirm our observation! I still love the strion socket for the A2, *many people around here wish to have a new batch* ;-)



I wonder what the minimum batch size Fivemega needs to do another run? I'm in for at least 1 if he does another run. Come on FM, make it happen!


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## ampdude (Jan 8, 2014)

Thank you for the readings el Pablo. Sounds about right on for the stock A2 lamp and the darkened Strion bulb, except I was surprised by the P60 reading on two fresh CR123A's. I would expect it to be closer to 100lumen. Do you have another P60 you could try? They do vary a bit IME. What brand were the batteries? For the first half of the run I've always found my P60's (and MN03's) to be brighter than the stock MA02. Which I would also mention was rated at 50 lumens by Surefire, while the P60 and MN03 were rated at 65 and 60 lumens respectively.


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## el_Pablo (Jan 8, 2014)

ampdude said:


> Thank you for the readings el Pablo. Sounds about right on for the stock A2 lamp and the darkened Strion bulb, except I was surprised by the P60 reading on two fresh CR123A's. I would expect it to be closer to 100lumen. Do you have another P60 you could try? They do vary a bit IME. What brand were the batteries? For the first half of the run I've always found my P60's (and MN03's) to be brighter than the stock MA02. Which I would also mention was rated at 50 lumens by Surefire, while the P60 and MN03 were rated at 65 and 60 lumens respectively.



new readings,

-C2 fresh surefire cells P61 = 147 OTF lumens
-C2 fresh surefire cells P60 (1) = 86 OTF lumens
-C2 fresh surefire cells P60 (2) = 79 OTF lumens (same bulb as previous reading)

both P60 have few minutes of runtime.


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## ampdude (Jan 8, 2014)

The only other difference I can think of is that I tend to keep the lenses of my lights very clean, taking the bezel apart and cleaning with lense cleaner whenever necessary. And of course, I try to keep all dust and debris off of the reflector and never touch them.

It could be I'm also biased by the whiter color temperature of the P60/MN03 on healthy batteries in comparison to the slightly more orange A2 beam regardless of battery state. Or the extra throw the D26 sized reflector provides versus the A2, but that doesn't explain why it seems even the E2e with its 19mm reflector is brighter on fresh batteries to me.

Something I did notice while comparing a P60 to my A2 just now is the A2 beam was considerably wider and that tells me two things, one of which I already knew: 1. I'm biased towards throw. 2. The wider beam can account for extra perceived lumens as lights with a stronger central beam, but less spill often appear brighter.

Also, the A2's LED's can account up to an extra 10 lumens or so, especially with the IMR16340's, which makes them brighter than on primaries, but you did mention that only one LED was running on your A2, so that should not have much of an effect overall.


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## ampdude (Jan 8, 2014)

el_Pablo said:


> I will receive soon the LF bulb for the A2, it will be interesting.
> 
> I still have to buy a NEW Strion bulb, to have is T0 output.



Also, just re-read this post. I'm guessing you'll get well over 100 lumens with a fresh LF A2 lamp in unfrosted version. I was gonna say over 120 lumens, but I didn't want to seem that optimistic, though that's what I'm thinking right now. I'm assuming it's only the unfrosted one they make now?

I think they all went unfrosted now after my original suggestion and thread on it a few years ago. Please confirm when you receive it.


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## ampdude (Jan 8, 2014)

fivemega said:


> *You can't really measure actual current on puls system at tail side. You will get wrong readings.*



His readings appear to correspond with the readings I remember of the lamp assemblies being read regardless of the digital circuit in the head of the body. I've never noticed a problem with taking amp readings off of the A2's tail, but I'm a novice. Could you please go more into depth as to how and why this method is inaccurate?


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## el_Pablo (Jan 15, 2014)

ampdude said:


> Also, just re-read this post. I'm guessing you'll get well over 100 lumens with a fresh LF A2 lamp in unfrosted version. I was gonna say over 120 lumens, but I didn't want to seem that optimistic, though that's what I'm thinking right now. I'm assuming it's only the unfrosted one they make now?
> 
> I think they all went unfrosted now after my original suggestion and thread on it a few years ago. Please confirm when you receive it.




Just got my 2 LF HO-A2 bulb, unfrosted, from Hong kong. Stated 120 bulb lumens.







The sphere tells me (same setup as the previous bulbs) :

- A2 2x 16340 IMR LF xenon HO-A2 (sample 1 new) = 101 OTF lumens
- A2 2x 16340 IMR LF xenon HO-A2 (sample 2 new) = 106 OTF lumens

Ampdude, you were not too far with your lumens guess, stated 120 bulb lumens, and we get 100 OTF lumens, pretty good. I'm going to run sample 2 in my user A2 and see after 10hrs of use how it holded it VS strion.

Beam shape observations : 

- To my eyes, the LF has more artefact in the beam than the stock A2 and the Strion, but nothing bad.

- The hot spot is more concentrated and narrower than Stock A2, but larger than Strion.


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## novice (Jan 16, 2014)

After doing much reading here, I am strongly contemplating chucking my Tenergy 3v setup and getting some IMR 16340 cells for my A2 (I have a Koala ring). I do have some questions about IMR use, in which I am extremely inexperienced/ignorant. From reading this thread, it sounds like I could use the Strion bulb until the beam noticeably yellows, and if I then immediately stop using the light, until I get a chance to recharge,the IMR cells will not be overly discharged, and will recover enough to avoid damage. Is this correct? 
Also, if I follow FM's suggestion and use a Stinger bulb for a longer bulb life; if the beam starts out more yellow, how do I know when to stop using the Stinger bulb? Will there be an equally noticeable incan beam change, which, if stopping at that point, will not leave the IMR cells overly discharged? Is it a matter of timing? What is the safe run-time for either of these bulbs? In terms of technical explanations, I'm not very good with anything much more with terms other than voltage; resistance and amps are over my head.

Finally, I have some IMR 18350 cells that I have used very little, because I don't know a lot about them. I have 2x IMR 18350 in a bored 6P with a P91 lamp. I have played with it for brief periods of time, but never enough to run them down enough to hurt them. Do I just use it until there is a sudden drop in brightness, and will the cells then be okay? I have read here that occasionally fully charging _AW_ cells, and letting them sit in lights on the shelf for long periods of time slowly draining, is not good for them. Should one attempt to keep one's IMR cells as fully charged at regular intervals as possible? I hope that this posting has not gone too terribly off-topic.


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