# Testing coatings for flashlights ...



## wquiles (Sep 18, 2011)

We have several threads in this forum about powder coating, anodizing, etc., but few on actual comparing these various finishes, so I decided that since I am testing Moly Resin to replace my powder coating setup, that it would be helpful to others if I post my results as I go along. I will try to keep the thread updated as I add more comparisons, pictures, etc..

My considerations as to what to use are limited (admittedly, self-imposed limitations) since I have small children at home, and don't want to have stuff that is too dangerous, too many steps, various fluids to store in their own containers, etc..

I posted this in the Diving Sub-forum, but I will repost here in its entirety since it is a good way to express how "I" feel about these coatings I am comparing:

*************************************************************
In my opinion, for Aluminum, the best is to use no coating/paint, and have the piece processed with HA-III (hard anodized type 3).

The HA-III electro-chemical process "transforms" the external surfaces of the Aluminum, resulting in a new surface that is very tough, very resistant to scratches, salt, and many other chemicals. It is "the" best process for Al, and why companies such as SureFire and others that do military gear always use this process to protect the Aluminun pieces.

However, doing HA-III properly is very dangerous due to the strong chemicals used, and it is not what I would call a "trivial" nor "easy" process to do at home. Note that doing HA-III is "not" the same as those easy to use/apply hard anodizing kits that you can buy on-line => those are only for HA-II, or the "basic" anodizing which is very easy to remove/scratch, and provide little protection.

The next level down in protection for Al are the ones that use a special paint/coating which are baked - the same finishes being used a lot now-a-days for firearms, and firearm parts/accessories. There are various types, and you can find them by their trade names, the more populars being Cerakote, Duracoat, and Moly Resin. Just like with true HA-III, the metal preparation is ultra important, but you "can" do those at home on a small oven, and using mostly an airbrush. These finishes are much, much better than the plain anodizing, but a level down from HA-III (which again, it not a coating - it permanently changes the surface of the Aluminum!).

The next level down in protection comes from Powder Coating, and the basic type II anodizing (basic finish on a factory Mag-lite). Those are much easier to scratch/off or peel off compared to Cerakote, Duracoat, and Moly Resin. I have a full powder coating kit at home, and have tested the surface against basic anodizing and although it is better than the basic anodizing, it is not that much better - you can even dissolve powder coating by wiping it down with an easy to get solvent.

The last thing I will mention is the thickness of each process. The HA-III transforms the outer surface, and increases the size a little - enough to note on threaded parts, so parts that are going to be threaded should not have a very tight fit before HA-III.

Cerakote, Duracoat, and Moly Resin "generally" (depending on how it was applied/sprayed) create a very thin surface, small enough that firearm parts that were fitted prior to these coatings still fit fine after the coating, and this also means no problems on threaded parts.

Powder coating is the worst here - compared to the other processes above, it has by far the thickest coating, and threads have to be completely masked off. Fitted parts will not fit well after powder coating, so your results might vary depending how thick a layer you end up with, which can get even worst once you add a second later for protection [like UV layer] which is commonly added to powder coated parts to increase their resistance to weather and "outside" conditions.

Just my 2 cents worth. 
*************************************************************

So again, I posted this above several weeks ago, and I am now showing some pictures of my experiments - I hope this is useful.


Here is the "equipment" I am using for applying the Moly Resin:







Although a two-stage, which some said were harder to use, I found it actually very easy to use, and easy to control the amount of "paint" being sprayed whether I was covering (need more paint), or touching up an area that did not get enough (need less paint). Very, very nice air brush, and easy to clean afterwards:






My practice area - a pizza carton/box:






Air pressure was set at the Badger-recommended 30psi. Here the air has been regulated, oil-filtered, and sub-micron filtered before reaching the air brush:






The first 3 on the left, have been coated with powder coating. If I recall the black used in the two left-most units was a "textured" finish, which feels very secure in the hand. The orange one is a smooth finish, so it is slippery. The two right-most tubes have been sand blasted to remove the original coating, and are ready to be "treaded":





















Here I already have applied a "very" thin coating of Moly Resin Flat Black, and I have them curing in my oven (the other pieces are from the Wilton vise I am restoring - that will be a separate post). Again, a very thin coating - I am just getting started to play with it:






Once I lightly coated those two tubes, I decided to "torture" the finish on them, but to make it fair (and somewhat scientific) I have a "control" group composed of a light and dark OEM finish on the Mag (Red and Silver):






Here are close-ups of the other torture victims "before" the torture begins. Here are the 3 powder coated parts:






And the two tubes that have the very light coating of Flat Black Moly Resin:






Comparing the bright finish on the OEM parts, to the more "dull" Flat Black Moly Resin:






Comparing the 3x powder coated parts (left) with the two Moly Resin parts (right):






All parts compared prior to torture. From left to right: OEM red, OEM silver, textured powder coating, textured powder coating, smooth powder coating, Flat Black Moly Resin, and Flat Black Moly Resin):






Here is the "Torturator 2000":






The media is Rust-Cutting Resin, from Harbor Freight:






Here with a D cell for size reference:






Here the parts go in for their torture session:






And here is a short movie showing the action:
short movie of the Torturator 2000


This media is abrasive, and with the tumbling action is similar to using medium-coarse sand paper - it just basically scratches the surfaces as time goes by. I let the parts in there for about an hour, which I would estimate would be worst than 12 months of use. 

Here are the pictures "after" the torture. First the 3x powder coated parts - they came out the worst:






















The Moly Resin parts with the very thin coating faired better - but I need to repeat with a slightly thicker coat next time:














The factory Type II anodizing did really well, but it is hard to photograph, since it just got lots and lots of tiny scratches:



















Will


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## wquiles (Sep 18, 2011)

Ready for part #2 of this testing.

I emailed John Norrell (owner of Moly Resin) and he gave me a few tips, so I just coated 3 pieces with Moly Resin again, but this time a little bit thicker, now that I have a little bit more experience with the air brush. These are the pieces before coating. The Silver and Red are just cut-offs, and the blue is a piece where I mess-up the threads (yes, I am human!):











Here is after the blasting with 70 grit Al Oxide:






Then cleaned with Simple Green degreaser, and pre-heated to about 100F as per Moly Resin instructions:






Coated parts being baked at about 300-320F:






Parts after they have cool off - you can see the small areas inside the tube where the copper hanger touched the body:

















Here I am comparing the 3 pieces I just did (left-most 3) with two (right-most) textured powder coated parts:






Good to note that now even with the normal/thicker coating of Moly Resin, that I can still freely screw parts together 


These are Ceramic-coated parts I got from ElectronGuru (thanks!):



















TO BE CONTINUED ...


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## darkzero (Sep 18, 2011)

Nice work Will!


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## alfa (Sep 18, 2011)

Thank you very much for your contribution!!


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## precisionworks (Sep 18, 2011)

The vibratory tumbler is a really good idea for testing since all samples get the same abrasive action. Good job


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## shao.fu.tzer (Sep 18, 2011)

Awesome! Thanks for taking the time and effort to do that! I really appreciate it when people experiment for the greater good of flashaholism! Please keep us updated! I would love to see how Cerakote fares compared to the Moly Resin and regular anodization! Maybe using different media in your tumblers could be used to simulate different real-world environments - like maybe a tumbler full of house keys! Nice Job! SUBSCRIBED!


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## Delphinus (Sep 18, 2011)

Excelent job, thanks


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## darkzero (Sep 18, 2011)

precisionworks said:


> The vibratory tumbler is a really good idea for testing since all samples get the same abrasive action. Good job


 
Agreed. It's great for cleaning too. I use walnut, corn cob, & various abrasive media in mine. Will's looks very similar to mine, you can pick up extra bowls from Harbor Freight, that way you don't have to hassle with changing media. I just swap the bowls & with a couple of star knobs to replace the wing nuts, makes the changes quick.


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## shao.fu.tzer (Sep 18, 2011)

How about filling it up with nuts... like steel nuts...? That would be interesting...


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## darkzero (Sep 18, 2011)

shao.fu.tzer said:


> How about filling it up with nuts... like steel nuts...? That would be interesting...



Steel shot is a common media to use for vibratory tumblers.


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## darkzero (Sep 18, 2011)

Will, on these:







Is the "white" that you see the aluminum under the powder coating or is it just scratches on the powder coat? I figure the powder coating has to be tougher than that. They still look cool though, like stonewashed.


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## wquiles (Sep 18, 2011)

darkzero said:


> Is the "white" that you see the aluminum under the powder coating or is it just scratches on the powder coat? I figure the powder coating has to be tougher than that. They still look cool though, like stonewashed.


 
Something I should have stated earlier, after the tumbler, all parts were rinsed off with plain water from the faucet, and dried off with pressurized air, so the surface was cleaned before I took those "after" pictures. 

Back to your question: The white appearance is not the the aluminum under the powder coating - there is still a layer of powder coating left in there. But remember that those black parts had the "textured" finish, so before coating the surface had all of these "rough" little spots all over. The tumbler basically managed to sand off most/all of those "high" points - basically scratched them off, so you still have a powder coating there, but the small "peaks" from the textured finish are flater and reflect light better, looking white.

When you look at the powder coated orange part, which had no small peaks from the textured finish, you can see more "damage" since being smooth allows the abrasive media to attack the whole surface. In the orange part, some of the abrasive media has actually embedded itself in the surface of the part - so from this test, and from my prior experience with testing powder coated parts, to me, the powder coat finish is actually not that tough:










Another good thing about Moly Resin is just as they state, the added thickness of the finished part does not change much dimensionally. Threading a tailcap on both parts that had the Moly Resin was normal, unlike the Powder Coated parts which would not go together at all. Basically you have Moly Resin at less than 0.001" thickness, compared to Powder Coating at between 0.003-005" - that is a big difference!

I am looking forward to a more normal coat of Moly Resin next time, instead of the very thin coating I used this time.

Will


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## Diablo_331 (Sep 18, 2011)

This is great! Thanks for doing this. I'm subscribed!


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## Klem (Sep 18, 2011)

Excellent work Will! Very precise an detailed (from Klem in the Dive Section).

A couple of questions...

You are obviously very particular with your painting equipment. Do you think the coating benefits significantly from those air-pressure filters you mentioned; oil filter, sub-micron?

Your choice of air-brush, the badger 360. Would you recommend this for an occassional hobbyist user who wants a good finish.

If I wanted to strip away an old patchy powder coat on an aluminium piece to then use Moly Resin, what is the best method?

I have exactly the same tumbler branded 'Hornady' for polishing up spent firearm cases. I use crushed nut husks and leave it on for 3 hours at a time, however for the damage you want you obviously have sourced the better medium. 

Klem


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## wquiles (Sep 18, 2011)

Klem said:


> You are obviously very particular with your painting equipment. Do you think the coating benefits significantly from those air-pressure filters you mentioned; oil filter, sub-micron?


For an air paint system, garbage in, garbage out. The better you can filter the incoming air into your paint gun/air brush/whatever, the better your results will be. From what I have read and from advice from Barry here in the forums, this is what I end up with - (everything is 1/2") a high pressure coalescing filter, a high pressure air regulator, and a Motor Guard sub-micron filter:
























Klem said:


> Your choice of air-brush, the badger 360. Would you recommend this for an occassional hobbyist user who wants a good finish.


Yes, after using the Badger 360 for two days, I really like it. But keep in mind choosing an air brush is very subjective, and you can spend a lot of time (like I did) reading about the various air brushes, pros/cons, etc.. Besides all of the reading/researched I also watched many videos on air brushes, and in the end this one seemed the one for me.




Klem said:


> If I wanted to strip away an old patchy powder coat on an aluminium piece to then use Moly Resin, what is the best method?


For powder coating, there is chemical stripper available, but it is somewhat expensive:
http://www.powderbuythepound.com/QUICK_STRIP_2000_1_GALLON.html

I have a small sand blasting cabinet, so that is what I use.




Klem said:


> I have exactly the same tumbler branded 'Hornady' for polishing up spent firearm cases. I use crushed nut husks and leave it on for 3 hours at a time, however for the damage you want you obviously have sourced the better medium


Next time I will try to use something that is even harder on the finish  


Will


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## Klem (Sep 18, 2011)

Will,

Thanks for the advice and photo's...Nice settup.

Clearly I need to do some homework first.


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## ICUDoc (Sep 19, 2011)

Great thread, thanks wquiles!


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## Th232 (Sep 19, 2011)

Great to see some actual testing being done. Will be interested to see what else you do. I've read that for various coatings like Cerakote, some versions/colours are stronger than others.

One small quibble though, and I'm very sorry but I have to say this:



wquiles said:


> those are only for *HA-II*, or the "basic" anodizing which is very easy to remove/scratch, and provide little protection.



AARGH!!


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## DM51 (Sep 20, 2011)

Very interesting to see these comparisons - many thanks, Will! 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Th232 said:


> AARGH!!


LOL :laughing:


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## wquiles (Sep 20, 2011)

DM51 said:


> Very interesting to see these comparisons - many thanks, Will!





Th232 said:


> Great to see some actual testing being done. Will be interested to see what else you do. I've read that for various coatings like Cerakote, some versions/colours are stronger than others.


Thank you guys. I hope to Moly Coat a few more samples, and do the comparison with even a harsher media next time ...




Th232 said:


> One small quibble though, and I'm very sorry but I have to say this:
> 
> AARGH!!


 


DM51 said:


> LOL :laughing:


 
I know, I know, sorry about my slip ...


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## shao.fu.tzer (Sep 20, 2011)

darkzero said:


> Steel shot is a common media to use for vibratory tumblers.



But shot is so... round... nuts have corners and sharp edges!



wquiles said:


> Next time I will try to use something that is even harder on the finish
> 
> 
> Will


 
How about broken glass? I still like the idea of real world testing medias like keys, bits of broken up concrete, etc...


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## wquiles (Sep 20, 2011)

I am "really" digging the idea of using lots and lots of keys, as well as some small nuts/bolts/etc. - to simulate worst case scenario of carying an EDC light with lots of "stuff" in the pocket in the way to HomeDepot/Lowes/etc. - that probably does sound like a more "realistic" test for these coating/finishes.

Does somebody has a one or two small pieces of scrap/test with Duracoat/Cerakote that I can borrow to torture along with the other pieces I have?

Will


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## shao.fu.tzer (Sep 20, 2011)

wquiles said:


> I am "really" digging the idea of using lots and lots of keys, as well as some small nuts/bolts/etc. - to simulate worst case scenario of carying an EDC light with lots of "stuff" in the pocket in the way to HomeDepot/Lowes/etc. - that probably does sound like a more "realistic" test for these coating/finishes.
> 
> Does somebody has a one or two small pieces of scrap/test with Duracoat/Cerakote that I can borrow to torture along with the other pieces I have?
> 
> Will



If you need some spare old housekeys let me know and I'll send you over my collection... I'm sure if others contributed as well, you'd have enough for testing purposes... Also, assorted change would be a good one...


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## wquiles (Sep 20, 2011)

shao.fu.tzer said:


> If you need some spare old housekeys let me know and I'll send you over my collection... I'm sure if others contributed as well, you'd have enough for testing purposes... Also, assorted change would be a good one...



I think that between the old keys that I have and the nut/bolts I will be OK, but thanks. If I start getting ready and find out that the bowl does not seem to have "enough", I will put in a request for additional "stuff" for the bowl 

Will


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## shao.fu.tzer (Sep 20, 2011)

wquiles said:


> I think that between the old keys that I have and the nut/bolts I will be OK, but thanks. If I start getting ready and find out that the bowl does not seem to have "enough", I will put in a request for additional "stuff" for the bowl
> 
> Will



Cool, let us know how it goes!!!! ...and someone send this man a cerakoted part or two!!!


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## gadget_lover (Sep 22, 2011)

Let me know if you need a few pounds of mixed steel, brass and aluminum keys for your test. I bought 53 pounds off ebay to help study locksmithing.

Daniel


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## ElectronGuru (Sep 22, 2011)

wquiles said:


> Does somebody has a one or two small pieces of scrap/test with Duracoat/Cerakote that I can borrow to torture along with the other pieces I have?


 
PM your addy, I'll find something.


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## wquiles (Sep 23, 2011)

shao.fu.tzer said:


> If you need some spare old housekeys let me know and I'll send you over my collection... I'm sure if others contributed as well, you'd have enough for testing purposes... Also, assorted change would be a good one...





gadget_lover said:


> Let me know if you need a few pounds of mixed steel, brass and aluminum keys for your test. I bought 53 pounds off ebay to help study locksmithing.


 
You know, I think that I will take you up on that. I looked and I don't have nearly as many old keys as I though!

Please send me an email (in my signature) so that I can get you address to ship the "stuff" to. Thanks 




ElectronGuru said:


> PM your addy, I'll find something.


I will send you a PM right now - thanks.


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## gadget_lover (Sep 26, 2011)

4 pounds of keys are in flight.

Literally. On a plane, headed to Texas.

Good luck with the next phase of the testing.

Daniel


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## shao.fu.tzer (Sep 27, 2011)

gadget_lover said:


> Let me know if you need a few pounds of mixed steel, brass and aluminum keys for your test. I bought 53 pounds off ebay to help study locksmithing.
> 
> Daniel



That's funny... that's why I have so many keys lying around as well... I also have about 500 lbs. of padlocks and deadbolts... Glad you were able to help! 



ElectronGuru said:


> PM your addy, I'll find something.


 
Yes! I knew someone would come up with the goods... Eagerly awaiting the results on this one... I've thus far been avoiding Cerakoted lights for fear of chipping... I hope these tests prove me wrong...


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## gadget_lover (Sep 27, 2011)

Slightly off topic... I originally started to look into buying a mill in order to be able to make my own locksmithing tools. $200 for a fancy grinder+tracer is ridiculous (AKA a key duplicator). Well, it was until I learned what was involved in making them. 

Daniel


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## wquiles (Sep 27, 2011)

ElectronGuru said:


> PM your addy, I'll find something.


 
Got the parts today - thank you very much.

As soon as I get the keys from Daniel (thanks much!), will be doing another round of testing 

Will


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## wquiles (Sep 28, 2011)

gadget_lover said:


> 4 pounds of keys are in flight.
> 
> Literally. On a plane, headed to Texas.
> 
> ...


 
Got them today - certainly a "lot" of keys :devil:

Thanks much


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## cmacclel (Sep 30, 2011)

Will when do you plan on doing another run? I'd like to send you some cerrakoted samples.


Mac


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## wquiles (Sep 30, 2011)

cmacclel said:


> Will when do you plan on doing another run? I'd like to send you some cerrakoted samples.
> 
> 
> Mac


 
I am going to coat some parts with Moly Resin this weekend, but no worries - I will wait until I get a few pieces from you.

Will


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## gadget_lover (Sep 30, 2011)

wquiles said:


> Got them today - certainly a "lot" of keys :devil:
> 
> Thanks much



Glad you like them. 

I still have 5 times that many in a box, and that many again that have been sorted by key designation, use, etc.


Daniel


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## wquiles (Oct 3, 2011)

Post two updated with new coated parts to be tested. Now waiting for parts that Mac sent (thanks Mac!) so that I can start testing 

Will


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## notrefined (Oct 3, 2011)

are all of the parts aluminum, or are the bezel rings coated steel?


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## wquiles (Oct 3, 2011)

notrefined said:


> are all of the parts aluminum, or are the bezel rings coated steel?



My parts are Al, and I expect that the white head is also Al, but I don't know about the bezel rings since I got those in the mail - I would also guess they are steel.

The part(s) I am getting from Mac are likely to be AL as well, so perhaps I should not include the steel parts?

Will


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 3, 2011)

Bezel rings are high quality SS, coated with TiAlN (AlTiN). Its an electroplating process normally used to protect drill bits. Same stuff we put on clips. Thought it would be fun to throw in the mix!

Looking at the photo of the tailcap, I may have grabbed an HA one by mistake :thinking:


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## wquiles (Oct 3, 2011)

ElectronGuru said:


> Bezel rings are high quality SS, coated with TiAlN (AlTiN). Its an electroplating process normally used to protect drill bits. Same stuff we put on clips. Thought it would be fun to throw in the mix!


Awesome. Thanks much for confirming. I will throw them in the mix!




ElectronGuru said:


> Looking at the photo of the tailcap, I may have grabbed an HA one by mistake


I am waiting for parts from Mac to arrive, so if you have an alternate piece or two that you want to send, go ahead - I will wait 


Will


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## wquiles (Oct 17, 2011)

OK, I have not gotten parts from Mac to test, but when I get them I will do another test. For now, I have done quite a bit of testing, which I wanted to share with you.

What I did this time, is that I divided the testing in 2 parts. Part 1 is with the keys only, to show real word testing of a light in your pocket, or tool box, glove box, etc. for a 1/2 hour duration. Then I decided to do a much worst, more aggressive testing using both the keys AND the abrasive media, for an additional 1/2 hour (total of 1 hour of testing).

******************************************************************************************************************
Part I - Normal, real-life abuse test

I first started by doing 3 new pieces in the flat black Moly Resin. Here are the 3 parts "before":












and the same 3 pieces after the blasting operation. I don't really have to remove all of the color, just get the surface "rough", so I went a little bit hard on these 






Cleaned and pre-heated:






Coated the parts and baked them:


























Here the 3 on the left have been coated with Moly Resin flat black, and the two on the right have been coated with Powder Coating, textured finish:






Here are the parts I got by mail for testing:
















I also have the Stainless Steel finish from Norrell, so I decided to coat two parts with it to see how it fades in this torture testing. Here are the two parts "before" coating:
















The product being tested:






The after pictures:











and No, it is not a bright finish at all. Here those two parts are compared to an OEM Silver finish piece:











So here are all of the pieces being tested. From left: black Moly, black Moly, SS Moly, SS Moly, Bright Powder coat, Black Textured Powder coat, OEM Copper, OEM Silver:





Close-ups:











The parts I got by mail:






OK, first the keys:






As you will see in the short movie, the parts are not tumbling properly. They are rotating, but not really tumbling, plus I also feel I probably have too many parts in the tub:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dRtli9xgwQ


So after testing with the keys for 1/2 hour, I got some scratches on all parts, but not evenly - only in a few areas, most likely around the area they were rotating instead of tumbling:
















You can more easily see some of the light damage across the edges, which seem "lighter" or "darker" here:





















Short summary:
- all of these finishes do well for the normal wear/tear, with the bright/light finishes "showing" more wear.
- the OEM anodizing has lots of small scratches, but it holds up well. It does not look "pretty", but not too bad.



******************************************************************************************************************
Part II - REALLY abusive testing
So I decided to add the abrasive media, along with the keys, for another 1/2 hour of torture. As you can see in the video, I still have the tub too full of parts, but I am getting more tumbling action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU8H0LXwt7c


Now, between the keys and the media, I truly did some damage to the finishes. To show the details better, I am using my new poor mans' MACRO lens (a diopter adapter!), so show you close-ups of the surfaces on all pieces. My apologies I am still learning to use the diopter lens, and with the very narrow field of view, not everything is in sharp focus. First the SS Moly finished pieces:





















Then the black Moly pieces:





















Then the Powder Coated Pieces:





















The OEM copper and OEM silver pieces (again, very hard to photograph the scratches due to the bright finish):
















And the pieces I got by mail:
















Only visible damage is again on the edges:












So what does all of this means?
- None of the coated finished survived "perfectly" due to the very aggressive testing, and lots of sharp edges during the part 2 of this testing. This testing was "really" abusive to the pieces, so under normal wear/tear any of these coatings will do well.
- As expected, the lighter and brighter coated finishes show the damage more easily, compared to the darker/flat/mate finishes.
- Of the coated finishes, the Powder Coating looks the worst after the testing. Looking at the surface damage, the surface seems more "soft" than the other baked products.
- Even with the more aggressive testing, the OEM finishes hold up well - this time with even more scratches. 


I hope this was helpful 

Will


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## cmacclel (Oct 17, 2011)

Will My cerakote order was delayed from Brownells for over a week but I did receive it Friday. I will coat some parts this week and get them to you.

Mac


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## wquiles (Oct 17, 2011)

cmacclel said:


> Will My cerakote order was delayed from Brownells for over a week but I did receive it Friday. I will coat some parts this week and get them to you.
> 
> Mac



No worries dude. When I get your parts, I can do another quick test 

Will


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## will (Oct 17, 2011)

Will
Is the white head ceramic coated? I had 2 lights ceramic coated a few years back, The finish I got is the same finish that is used for knife sharpeners, it has a slight abrasive quality. It also absorbs oil and dirt easily. 

Tumbling with keys is a good test for everyday use. Different keys will have different hardness characteristics, some are plated, some are brass. The tumbling stones will be more aggressive than the keys.


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## wquiles (Oct 18, 2011)

I think it was Cerakote.


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## wquiles (Nov 26, 2011)

I just received four the Cerakoted parts from Mac - thanks Mac 

I will take 4 parts, prep them, and coat them with Moly Resin, and I will do a direct apples to apples comparison between the two baked finishes in the next week or two 

Will


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## wquiles (May 23, 2012)

OK, time for an update to this neglected thread. 

First, my apologies to Mac for not doing this comparison earlier. He sent the parts to be compared more than 6 months ago, so it is totally my bad for not doing this earlier 

Here are the 4 Cerakote'd parts Mac sent:






Here are the 4 parts that I will coat with MolyResin (these are the "before" pictures):






Mac sent his parts with the edges slightly rounded, so I did that to my parts as well:






Here are my parts after sand blasting them:






Here are the parts (mine have been coated with MolyResin by now). The 4x parts on the left are from Mac (Cerakote), the next 4x are mine. I use the semi-gloss Black, but it came really glossy:











Again, first 4x are Cerakote, the next 4x are MolyResin (lots of dust showing!):











The "Torturator":






I started with two parts Cerakote (on left) and two MolyResin (right):






This is how those 4x parts looked like after 30 minutes of "torture":





















The second batch to be tested was like before, 2x Cerakote (left), and 2x MolyResin (right). These are the pictures "after" 30 minutes of torture. The light color Cerkote showed the most "abrasion" or "damage", however the mat orange Cerakote looks great:


























And here on top are the 4x Cerakote parts, and on the bottom the 4x MolyResin parts (all parts had 30 min of torture):






To make one last test, I took 2x of the black Cerakote parts and 2x of the MolyResin parts and did an additional 3 hour test (6x times as long as earlier). These are the results - yes, more "wear" than earlier, but still not that bad considering how abrasive this test it on the finish:











I find it remarkable how well and how comparable Cerakote is to MolyResin. I honestly can't say one is better than the other in my testing. They are both really good, but I will add that that light color Cerakote was not as good as the Orange Cerakote - that mat Orange is really good at "hiding" surface wear 

Again, many thanks to Mac for making these Cerakote parts available for testing.
Will


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## cmacclel (Jun 3, 2012)

Will thanks for running the tests. On the lighter colored cerakote (Satin Aluminum) is that wear or just dirt? That color is real easy to dirty. Did you try just wiping it down with some a rag and some cleaner like windex or wd40?

Mac


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## wquiles (Jun 3, 2012)

cmacclel said:


> Will thanks for running the tests. On the lighter colored cerakote (Satin Aluminum) is that wear or just dirt? That color is real easy to dirty. Did you try just wiping it down with some a rag and some cleaner like windex or wd40?
> 
> Mac



Mac,

Yes, there were very clean. Before I take the pictures I get them out of the vibrating case, flush them with water, then apply some Simple Green, use a toothbrush to clean then inside/out, rinse with water, and finally blow them dry with the shop's air supply.

I guess it is possible there are some dirt "embedded" in the surface, but to keep the test as objective as possible, I did not try to clean any body more than others, and I just used the relatively soft toothbrush.

Will


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## gt40 (Jun 3, 2012)

This is a great test. It would be great to add some sort of impact testing to show the equivalent of your light falling on the ground etc. Impact is different from abrasion. Thanks again for doing such a thorough job.

I found your results with cerakote dead on vs my own experiences. I was also surprised how the moly also held it's own.


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## wquiles (Jun 4, 2012)

gt40 said:


> This is a great test. It would be great to add some sort of impact testing to show the equivalent of your light falling on the ground etc. Impact is different from abrasion. Thanks again for doing such a thorough job.
> 
> I found your results with cerakote dead on vs my own experiences. I was also surprised how the moly also held it's own.



Thank you. From my testing, Cerakote and Moly Resin are very similar in protection/durability, however, there are some small differences:

Same preparation steps for both:
- clean/degrease
- sand blast
- clean and heat for gas-out

The next step is different:
- mix parts for Cerakote - after spraying trow away the remaining/un-used material as the mix (similar to a two-part epoxy) hardens for ever
- shake well the already-mixed Moly Resin - pour back any un-used material back in the original bottle to use again in future applications


The next two steps are the same:
- evenly spray/coat the parts
- oven cure at 300F


Moly Resin can be applied with a simple/cheap air brush, while Cerakote instructions call for a High Volume Low Pressure (HVLP) air gun (although it does not need to be a premium/expensive one). So cost-wise for the air paint gun is not a significant factor. The major/only difference (to me) is that I don't have to mix (nor trow away) Moly Resin - this to me makes for an easier to use and more friendly system for home/small business use when you are coating just a few parts. In a larger setting where you are mixing to coat many parts, I think this becomes irrelevant.

Doing small runs is fairly easy/trivial with Moly Resin, like these custom LED heads for my LED Shop Lights:











So given what I have found so far:
- Powder Coating is "not" nearly as good as Cerakote nor Moly Resin: in fact due to my own testing I sold off all of my professional Powder Coating equipment. 
- I can't find any reason to pick Cerakote over Moly Resin based on my testing - they both protect really well.
- I am sticking with Moly Resin mostly because it simply works, and it is a little easier to use than Cerakote 

Will


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## wquiles (Jun 4, 2012)

gt40 said:


> It would be great to add some sort of impact testing to show the equivalent of your light falling on the ground etc. Impact is different from abrasion.



What about if I were to find a source for very hard (surface hardened) steel balls and repeat the test but using a new bowl (no debris / powder / abrasion stuff) and run parts for several hours with just the steel balls?

Will


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## gt40 (Jun 4, 2012)

wquiles said:


> What about if I were to find a source for very hard (surface hardened) steel balls and repeat the test but using a new bowl (no debris / powder / abrasion stuff) and run parts for several hours with just the steel balls?
> 
> Will



The vibratory tumbler is great for abrasion but you would need to do something that can do a consistent impact. coat some aluminum plate and drop some things on it from a consistent height like ball bearings. I think something with a trap door or ramp so things drop at the same speed. The question in my mind: Does the part elongate/deform with coating intact or does it flake or chip off?


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## wquiles (Jun 5, 2012)

gt40 said:


> The vibratory tumbler is great for abrasion but you would need to do something that can do a consistent impact. coat some aluminum plate and drop some things on it from a consistent height like ball bearings. I think something with a trap door or ramp so things drop at the same speed. The question in my mind: Does the part elongate/deform with coating intact or does it flake or chip off?



OK, good points. I just ordered some "heavy", 3/4" dia and 1" dia steel (chrome plated) ball bearings - I have an idea for an easy, reproducible, impact test 

Will


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## gt40 (Jun 5, 2012)

I have lot's of scrap aluminum plate from my cnc mill conversion. I could cerakote a few pieces, say 3" x 3" and give you a few more for different coatings if you want...


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## wquiles (Jun 5, 2012)

gt40 said:


> I could cerakote a few pieces, say 3" x 3" and give you a few more for different coatings if you want...



Yes, PLEASE do. I have aluminum plate material as well, and I can of course treat them with Moly Resin to do side-by-side impact testing with the steel ball bearings. I mostly have black colored Moly Resin at this point in time, but send any finishes/colors you want. 

And if others following this thread want to send other color/finishes of Cerakote (or any other finish) on Aluminum flat/plate pieces, please email me (in my signature) for my physical address.

Will


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## gt40 (Jun 6, 2012)

I am doing cerakote on parts for my cnc mill conversion this weekend and will make some plates. I should be able send them out Monday.


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## wquiles (Jun 6, 2012)

gt40 said:


> I am doing cerakote on parts for my cnc mill conversion this weekend and will make some plates. I should be able send them out Monday.



Outstanding. I should get the ball bearings next week as well, so I "should" be able to run the experiment in the next 2-3 weeks or so once I get everything, plus time to coat my own pieces, etc.. 

To others following the thread: if you have Aluminum plates that you can coat (OK only on one side) with whatever coating you want, please contact me via email for my physical address here in Texas.

Will


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## gt40 (Jun 20, 2012)

wquiles said:


> Outstanding. I should get the ball bearings next week as well, so I "should" be able to run the experiment in the next 2-3 weeks or so once I get everything, plus time to coat my own pieces, etc..
> 
> To others following the thread: if you have Aluminum plates that you can coat (OK only on one side) with whatever coating you want, please contact me via email for my physical address here in Texas.
> 
> Will



I was able to do a batch and coat the sample for you. Shipping out today


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## wquiles (Jun 20, 2012)

gt40 said:


> I was able to do a batch and coat the sample for you. Shipping out today



Cool, thanks for the heads-up 

Will


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## Patriot (Jun 21, 2012)

Great thread! Amazing how well the newer finishes hold up compared to powder coat. I was surprised at how well the typeII anodizing held up as well. I suspect that typeIII would perform very well in this style of test?


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## wquiles (Jun 21, 2012)

Patriot said:


> I suspect that typeIII would perform very well in this style of test?


Type III is a transformation of the outer surface of the Aluminum, not a coating (like Moly Resin, Cerakote, etc.), although I still consider HAIII the best, and why SureFire uses it on pretty much all of their lights.

However, you can't easily/safely do HAIII at home, which is why I have excluded HAIII from this evaluation. From the stuff you can easily/safely do at home, and based on my testing, I recommend Moly Resin and Cerakote.

Will


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## wquiles (Jun 22, 2012)

gt40 said:


> I was able to do a batch and coat the sample for you. Shipping out today



Got the Cerakote plate to test with. I was waiting to get yours to do mine, so that it would be of similar size/shape. I will get mine ready over the weekend, and coat it with Moly Resin next week, so that I can do a proper A vs. B test.

Thanks,
Will


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## wquiles (Jun 28, 2012)

I got my plate sandblasted and coated yesterday. Testing will start soon. Yes, I have been taking pictures along the process 

Will


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## gt40 (Jun 28, 2012)

wquiles said:


> I got my plate sandblasted and coated yesterday. Testing will start soon. Yes, I have been taking pictures along the process
> 
> Will



Thanks again for doing this... I can't wait!


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## wquiles (Jun 29, 2012)

OK, so here is some data on the impact testing using hardened steel balls. These are the two ball sizes I used (3/4" and 1"):







On top the plate from gt40, on bottom right the one I found similar in size/shape, although thinner:











Here my plate has been sand blasted and heated to remove cleaning solvents/etc. - the one in Moly Resin was painted Flat Black:






Here is my experiment/setup. In order to prevent the falling steel ball from hitting the plate more than once, I have the plates at a slight angle. As I drop each steel ball from each rung in the ladder, I made a note in the plate for each ball:











L - refers to the "lighter" steel ball (3/4" diameter)
H - refers to the "heavy" steel ball (1" diameter)
1 - First rung at 11"
2 - Second rung at 21"
3 - Third rung at 32"
4 - Top of the ladder: 56"
5 - Drop from the edge of the garage door = 83"

So 4L means from the 4th drop position, using the light weight ball, and 5H means a drop from position 5, using the heavy steel ball.


And here are the photos from the experiments (Grey - Cerakote ; Black - Moly Resin):






Close up on Cerakote plate:











Close up on Moly Resin plate:











Close-up on the highest drop with the heavy steel ball:






I did not see/detect any peeling/flaking off. It seems that at least for this simple test, both finishes protect the Aluminum really well. The only thing I can note is in the colors used - the black seems to hide the indentations a little bit better than the Grey.

Maybe the steel balls are too "smooth" to cause significant damage?

Will


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## will (Jun 29, 2012)

Are the 3 plates the same aluminum alloy - 6061 ?


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## wquiles (Jun 29, 2012)

will said:


> Are the 3 plates the same aluminum alloy - 6061 ?



There were only two plates tested: mine (6061) with Moly Resin, and the one gt40 sent. I don't know, but I suspect it is also 6061.

Will


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## will (Jun 29, 2012)

I looked at the first picture which has 3 plates. It seems that one plate had deeper indentations, which would seem to indicate a softer aluminum. 

Is the coating dented? or is the aluminum dented as well?


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## wquiles (Jun 29, 2012)

When looking side by side at the two tested plates, the indentations look to me about the same, but they are easier to see in the grey color. 

The Aluminum in all cases was dented, with deeper impressions the heavier the steel ball, and the higher the drop. 

The purpose of the test was to see if impact testing would affect how Cerakote or Moly Resin protects the metal, and so far I can't see the coating peeling off in any of the dents.

I will try to look tomorrow with my good 10x loupe to see if I can detect any damage under higher magnification.

Will


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## wquiles (Jul 2, 2012)

OK guys, here are some macro photos of the 5H drop on each plate.

First the Moly Resin, then the Cerakote:











Then macro pictures of the actual impact area. First Moly Resin and then Cerakote:













Will


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## gt40 (Jul 2, 2012)

Will:

The plate I sent was 6061. Thanks again for doing this. Love the macro btw. It confirms the ability of these finishes to elongate rather than chip. Looks good in both cases:thumbsup:



wquiles said:


> OK guys, here are some macro photos of the 5H drop on each plate.
> 
> First the Moly Resin, then the Cerakote:
> 
> ...


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## cpassuel (Jun 9, 2015)

Hello Will,

First of all, thanks for this thread, it's very interesting and very informative.

I'm wondering if you made some tests in salt water to see how it could behave in the sea ? I'm thinking to use this kind of coating for an homemade diving lamp.


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## wquiles (Jun 10, 2015)

Wow, older thread resurrected 

Even the picture links don't work!


To answer the question, coatings were not tested against salt water. I however would have zero reservations on using either one of these baked finishes around salt water.

Will


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## gt40 (Jun 23, 2015)

I would like to see UV resistance testing. I have had some lights on the front of the raptor and there is some fading - or maybe it is road dirt. They were made around the start of this thread and done in the same grey as the piece I sent in to Will for this test.


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## DragonHead (Aug 21, 2015)

Cerakote has some great test results on their site....


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## D2000 (Jan 16, 2016)

Actually I've been thinking about electroplating my bare metal flashlights with copper. I know it's not super durable but the ability to replate it and buff it up any time I like would be the benefit.

I wonder if it would be possible to electroplating the whole host sealed.


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## HarryN (Mar 31, 2016)

Nice testing and data - Thank you.

In the past I was looking at some coatings. One common method is to use a sharp sand and water mixture in a tumbler (or a special washing machine). The downside, is that very few coatings can survive it for even 15 minutes.

I like that moly coating - very convenient material if it can be re-used like that.


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