# any MCE LED users...question



## neutralwhite (Jan 17, 2013)

hi there, 

hard question, ok, - if the Nichia 219 high cri is so good at say 4500k neutral white, how comes the MCE LED at 4500k & at only 75 cri is more expensive?.
there seems to be more Nichia users than MCE users.
i know they say MCE is old school, but then why still the high cost?.


also is XPG2 better then them both at say warm white/neutral?.
something im looking into.

thanks.


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## AnAppleSnail (Jan 17, 2013)

Check the lumen outputs and efficiency of each of these. See their respective datasheets for more information. What is a 'better' LED? More efficient? Brighter at maximum rating? Better for color rendering? Better for color distinction? In a certain range of frequencies? Better for plants? Better for SAD? That's a tough question to answer because it's an incomplete question.


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## Pöbel (Jan 17, 2013)

it depends. The MC-E is more expensive as it's an older quad-die, which by itsself has higher production costs. Its also more expensive as it can deliver much more lumens than a single die Nichia.


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## jellydonut (Jan 17, 2013)

Good question. High production costs. Maybe there are niche applications where manufacturers require replacement MC-E LEDs rather than newer designs.

In any case, the MC-E is a terrible choice now. I never thought it was a good LED, since it's a quad-die and thus can't be focused to produce a decent beam for its life, but now that there are so many high-output alternatives with much better efficiency to boot there is no reason at all to put an MC-E in a flashlight.

If you want MC-E output nowadays, you ought to buy an XM-L or an XM-L2.


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## neutralwhite (Jan 17, 2013)

hmmm, thanks, is XPG2 even better than those XM-L / L2's ?.
thanks.



jellydonut said:


> Good question. High production costs. Maybe there are niche applications where manufacturers require replacement MC-E LEDs rather than newer designs.
> 
> In any case, the MC-E is a terrible choice now. I never thought it was a good LED, since it's a quad-die and thus can't be focused to produce a decent beam for its life, but now that there are so many high-output alternatives with much better efficiency to boot there is no reason at all to put an MC-E in a flashlight.
> 
> If you want MC-E output nowadays, you ought to buy an XM-L or an XM-L2.


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## nbp (Jan 17, 2013)

jellydonut said:


> Good question. High production costs. Maybe there are niche applications where manufacturers require replacement MC-E LEDs rather than newer designs.
> 
> In any case, the MC-E is a terrible choice now. I never thought it was a good LED, since it's a quad-die and thus can't be focused to produce a decent beam for its life, but now that there are so many high-output alternatives with much better efficiency to boot there is no reason at all to put an MC-E in a flashlight.
> 
> If you want MC-E output nowadays, you ought to buy an XM-L or an XM-L2.



Jason from Dark Sucks managed to mate an MC-E and a reflector that produces an amazing beam. It can be done.


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## neutralwhite (Jan 17, 2013)

+ 1 agreed. 
how does then the MCE compare with the new XPG2 then?.
thanks.



nbp said:


> Jason from Dark Sucks managed to mate an MC-E and a reflector that produces an amazing beam. It can be done.


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## AnAppleSnail (Jan 17, 2013)

neutralwhite said:


> + 1 agreed. how does then the MCE compare with the new XPG2 then?.thanks.


It's in the data sheet. You'd get a kick out of learning to read them. Get the MC-E and XP-G2 data sheet. You're looking for:Rated lumensMaximum current% relative output at max current (Max lumens = rated x luminous flux %)Tint is in bins in the CIE color space (Cree's are large)CRI is statedLED size (dome size) gives throw potential. Smaller = more throw per lumen.


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## carling (Jan 17, 2013)

The Commonly Used LED Emitter Index is also a nice read.


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## archimedes (Jan 17, 2013)

I know that it doesn't make much sense on paper, and that there are a lot of factors that go into a torch besides the emitter (reflector, optics, driver, etc, etc) ... but wonder why I seem to like all of my MC-E lights more than my XM-L lights ??? :thinking:


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## derfyled (Jan 17, 2013)

neutralwhite,

I see you asking that same question in many forms and in many thread. I think the easiest way to help you would be to tell us exactly what you are looking for.

Color rendition, throw, brutal power, flood, tint, what is your need ?


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## neutralwhite (Jan 17, 2013)

hi hell knows, but being new to CPF, and flashlights, please do excuse me, & thank you for being patient,
yes, I want something like the PD32UE size, warm, maybe 500L, XPG2, flood more than throw.
something like that, lol, for now. 
torn between 4500+, and warm white 4000.



derfyled said:


> neutralwhite,
> 
> I see you asking that same question in many forms and in many thread. I think the easiest way to help you would be to tell us exactly what you are looking for.
> 
> Color rendition, throw, brutal power, flood, tint, what is your need ?


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## AnAppleSnail (Jan 17, 2013)

Get something with a warm-white XM-L. It'll cost $50-$80 to get an acceptable light, or cost (I don't know how much, but not much) to replace the LED in an existing light. There's a few "Modding Services" people around here. Either way, you aren't stuck with it for life, and it'll move on CPF Marketplace soon.


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## calipsoii (Jan 17, 2013)

archimedes said:


> I know that it doesn't make much sense on paper, and that there are a lot of factors that go into a torch besides the emitter (reflector, optics, driver, etc, etc) ... but wonder why I seem to like all of my MC-E lights more than my XM-L lights ??? :thinking:



I already added my 2 cents on the MC-E in neutralwhite's _last _MC-E thread, but I completely agree. The emitter has a special place in my heart.


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## neutralwhite (Jan 17, 2013)

thanks, can a pd32ue be modded though as many say don't bother....?. thanks



AnAppleSnail said:


> Get something with a warm-white XM-L. It'll cost $50-$80 to get an acceptable light, or cost (I don't know how much, but not much) to replace the LED in an existing light. There's a few "Modding Services" people around here. Either way, you aren't stuck with it for life, and it'll move on CPF Marketplace soon.


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## GunnarGG (Jan 17, 2013)

EagleTac D25LC2 is an alternative, it can be had in NW.
Google, there is a lot of info about that light.

But you will end up with 2 lights that do pretty much the same thing I guess.

Why not try something different.

There should be a Zebralight SC52W out soon I think...


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## BenChiew (Jan 17, 2013)

I like the flood beam from the MC-E.


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## videoman (Jan 17, 2013)

Why is little mentioned, if at all, of the Cree MT-G especially the MT-G2. I would think it would be more efficient than the MC-E for flood applications. Is it because of the higher (6V) vF ? I think it's an excellent choice for flood. :shrug:


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## neutralwhite (Jan 17, 2013)

is that more than an XML beam?
thanks.



Benchiew said:


> I like the flood beam from the MC-E.


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## Vortus (Jan 17, 2013)

Electrolumens EDC MC-E also had a great beam. So it just depends on what you want. I like the mce just as much as the xml. With the right reflector or optic the MCE is great. It is more floody than the XML due to its size. It will have a donut in most cases for really close up stuff, as in inches. And, unless I am mistaken, the nichia 219 cannot push 900lm either.


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## neutralwhite (Jan 17, 2013)

thanks, the only thing that is somewhat off putting is that its rated at just 75CRI , just like my PD32UE XM-LT6 3C LED.

Nichia is like 90+.
is this difference a real matter really for concern for my eyes?.
thanks.


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## derfyled (Jan 17, 2013)

neutralwhite said:


> thanks, the only thing that is somewhat off putting is that its rated at just 75CRI , just like my PD32UE XM-LT6 3C LED.
> 
> Nichia is like 90+.
> is this difference a real matter really for concern for my eyes?.
> thanks.



If you take a neutral white, 75 CRI and compare directly to neutral white 90 CRI, you will notice the difference mainly in brown and red but in real world usage, you will not really notice, unless you are trying to. Remember that a lot of numbers and statistics are often marketing techniques from manufacturers to make you think your light is outdated.

_I want something like the PD32UE size, warm, maybe 500L, XPG2, flood more than throw.
something like that, lol, for now. 
torn between 4500+, and warm white 4000._

If you really want flood, then forget the XPG2, since the die is rather small, this emitter is more balanced for throw. Right now, your PD32 seems to fit exactly your description except for the warm part. 

My advice: if you really want to modify your light for the tint, stick with an XM-l (or XM-L2) and get yourself a 3500k-4000k.

But, as I said in another thread where you were asking almost the same question, I personally think it's a waste of money. Your PD32UE is already a great light with a great emitter. The cost of modding+ parts can be more expensive than buying another light. If you want to test a warm one, I suggest you check a XENO E03 V2. They are inexpensive and available in cool, neutral or warm white. A great way to test some tints...

I hope that help a bit, I know the LEDs can be confusing when you are new to this world. I suggest you read this great thread from Pjandyho.There is some great shots comparing various lights and emitters...


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 17, 2013)

Color, food, wine—it's a matter of personal preference.

Some are lumen junkies. More lumens = better regardless of tint and regardless of CRI.

Others are tint junkies = if the tint isn't right and/or if it isn't high-CRI, they want nothing to do with it.

Only way to go is to try both for yourself, in person.

Otherwise, it is just one man's opinion against another's,
or less combatively, one man's opinion in a sea of others.


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## neutralwhite (Jan 17, 2013)

you've been a great help. thank you dear sir, kindly.
thanks. appreciated.




derfyled said:


> If you take a neutral white, 75 CRI and compare directly to neutral white 90 CRI, you will notice the difference mainly in brown and red but in real world usage, you will not really notice, unless you are trying to. Remember that a lot of numbers and statistics are often marketing techniques from manufacturers to make you think your light is outdated.
> 
> _I want something like the PD32UE size, warm, maybe 500L, XPG2, flood more than throw.
> something like that, lol, for now.
> ...


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## derfyled (Jan 17, 2013)

neutralwhite said:


> you've been a great help. thank you dear sir, kindly.
> thanks. appreciated.



:thumbsup:


The thread I was pointing to is not exactly the one I wanted to show you. Have a look at this one. There is a particular shot with a fruit (a darian) where you can compare a neutral white and and high cri led.


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## Illum (Jan 17, 2013)

Some of us still use MC-Es not because we are old school, but for certain lights that were originally designed for LuxVs, their drivers have a hard time getting used to anything else


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## neutralwhite (Jan 19, 2013)

thanks, so out of all the 4500 NW LEDs?, does MCE win?. i see its the makers choice with darksucks.com, and some others quite often,
MCE is a costly LED making me think its a better best one. 

thanks.


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## BenChiew (Jan 19, 2013)

New emitters may come and old emitters may go, but the MC-E will always stay with me. All my MC-E fitted lights have been marked as a "keeper".


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## neutralwhite (Mar 19, 2013)

thanks benchiew. 
alpha mce on its way.
im sold!. 



Benchiew said:


> New emitters may come and old emitters may go, but the MC-E will always stay with me. All my MC-E fitted lights have been marked as a "keeper".


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## WeLight (Mar 19, 2013)

if your considering MCE and want something up to date then XML Easy white in 4000K will give you min 80CRI, you can crank it to 2A at 6Volt and will get you over 800 lumens


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