# High Lumen light as bear deterrant? any stories



## bighottaco (Aug 22, 2010)

Hello I'm planning on buying a surefire 200 lumen e2dl partly as a detterrant to critters while backpacking/packrafting. Any stories of these types of lights scaring off bears or other animals. Next trip is the everglades mid September but I don't think the light will do much good against snakes(except to spot em.) Thanks.


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 22, 2010)

There have been many threads over the years regarding scaring animals with your lights. Check in the Cafe section. A thread was active recently.

I think the general consensus is that lights really don't have much effect on wild critters.

Geoff

P.S. Welcome to CPF


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## cm_mtb (Aug 22, 2010)

:welcome:

You're better off carrying a handgun or a can of bear pepper spray.

Using the CPF Google search, I found an older thread discussing flashlights as a bear deterrent.


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## jellydonut (Aug 22, 2010)

I highly doubt it.

My last night hike I was lighting my way with the Malkoff Wildcat V2 (750lms out the front) and I saw a reflector of some sort in the middle of the grass. I shined the light at it but I couldn't discern what it was, so I decided to act on my curiosity and approached it through the grass. It was only then that it started moving and I realized it was a cat that I had only seen one eye of. That poor (wild?)cat stared into my Wildcat for quite a while without a care in the world - it was only when I approached it it was startled.

If the common house cat isn't fazed I don't see a bear being any more impressed. :nana:


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## Connor (Aug 22, 2010)

On a night walk last week, I heard some noises on the side of the path. It was a rat and it really did not like my flashlight and swiftly ran away.

Now ask yourself, if you were a grown bear in a pissed off and/or hungry mood and one of those pesky little bipeds shone the sun in your face, would you run away like a rat?


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## EZO (Aug 22, 2010)

I had a pretty large black bear get into the birdfeeder out on my deck late at night awhile back (late Winter, early Spring) At first, he was hunched over with his head level with the feeder that stands six feet above the floor of the deck so he was a good sized adult probably in the neighborhood of two fifty to three hundred pounds. Before long he had ripped the whole feeder off the steel pole it's mounted on and the next thing you know he's lying on his back shaking the feeder into his mouth. Pretty cute, and I'm watching all this through the sliding glass door from about four feet away. So, with a 357 magnum within easy reach and a Nikon D300 in my hands I start shooting pictures but of course the flash was reflecting off the glass. Then I got brave (or stupid, as the case may be) and opened the door a crack and try shooting photos again. The bear retreats to the lower level of the deck but pokes his head up to get another look at the situation since he's obviously still hungry and wants what's left in the feeder but it became clear very quickly that he really didn't like the flash from the camera when he decided to turn and leave after getting zapped with the flash a few more times.

So I can't say for sure, but this could be an example of where the much maligned strobe feature that many of us have no practical use for on our lights might come in very handy.


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## Connor (Aug 22, 2010)

EZO said:


> So I can't say for sure, but this could be an example of where the much maligned strobe feature that many of us have no practical use for on our lights might come in very handy.



Nice story! But don't forget that even a small camera flash is *magnitudes* brighter than any LED flashlight, including the SST-90 ones.


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## riccardo (Aug 22, 2010)

EZO said:


> So I can't say for sure, but this could be an example of where the much maligned strobe feature that many of us have no practical use for on our lights might come in very handy.



I would not compare a camera flash, especially an external flash for SLR, whit the strobo function of our flashlights. The intensity of the flash it's much higher...


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## EZO (Aug 22, 2010)

You guys might be right about a camera flash being a great deal brighter than the typical flashlight strobe, even a powerful one. On the other hand, having had other runs in with bears and other critters here in rural Vermont there is the sense that some animals may be disoriented by a strobe whereas they tend to just they just freeze under a steady beam. This has got me interested, so I think I'll have to do some "expeerimentin", starting with the raccoons who are my most frequent and persistent visitors. Aside from that I know a knowledgeable game warden I plan to ask next time I see him. (Although, technically, it is illegal in Vermont to shine lights at wildlife at night because of deer jacking, so I don't know how he'll feel about this question) Also, there is a guy around here who specializes in bear habitat, dealing with orphaned cubs and testing the health and tagging of hibernating adults. I'll bet he would know the answer to the original question at hand here.


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## tandem (Aug 22, 2010)

Skunks do not appear to like a high output light shone at them. Two recent encounters saw them scurry away quickly, tail down. I don't have a recent control to compare to - they might scurry away just as quickly with no light or a poor light.

I do have two different lighting situations to compare the response of a family of raccoons visiting us on a regular basis. The raccoons in my yard are unimpressed by a weak light (10 or less lumens) but definitely do not like 200 lumen lights shone in their eyes from 15-20 metres away. They mosey off to my neighbours yard instead...


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## SiliconCali (Aug 22, 2010)

bighottaco said:


> Hello I'm planning on buying a surefire 200 lumen e2dl partly as a detterrant to critters while backpacking/packrafting. Any stories of these types of lights scaring off bears or other animals. Next trip is the everglades mid September but I don't think the light will do much good against snakes(except to spot em.) Thanks.



I've had racoons simply stare into my 160 lumen SureFire. Doubt a motivated bear, in his territory, would be deterred by a flashlight. Maybe you could stick the light under your chin and made your face look really scary. Works on kids. 

:welcome:


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## mrartillery (Aug 22, 2010)

This will probably be your best option. :devil:


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## Grumpy (Aug 22, 2010)

Reminds me of a joke...

A man is about to get eat by a bear and prays "Lord please let this be a Christian bear."

The bear bowed its head in prayer and said "Dear Lord thank you for this food I am about to receive."

:laughing:


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## EZO (Aug 22, 2010)

Hey guys, it's probably important to note the distinction between the three types of bears that live here in North America. The Black Bear, the Brown Bear (Kodiaks and Grizzlys) and the Polar Bear. Grizzlys, Kodiaks and Polar bears should simply be avoided at close range at all costs. They can be very aggressive and pointing a flashlight at one is most likely only to serve as a good target. Grizzlys can weigh in at over 1000 lbs, Kodiaks can weigh 1500 lbs and Polar bears have been recorded at 2000 lbs. Black bears usually average 200 to 300 lbs although some have been recorded at up to 500 lbs but they tend to be rather timid and usually afraid of contact with humans. If you encounter one it is almost always because they are after a food source. They will usually retreat if confronted unless protecting cubs or a food supply or territory they feel particularly entitled to. mrartillery's suggestion applies to back country use in Brown Bear or Polar Bear habitat.


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## wyager (Aug 22, 2010)

Whenever I'm in bear country, I bring a flare pen with a bearbanger round screwed in. It basically shoots a really tiny rocket propelled grenade out the front (more like a rocket propelled firecracker), which flies around 150 feet until it hits something, and then it blows up and scares the pants off of anything nearby (the report is something like 130 decibels). I saw a video where a guy used it on a bear on his porch, it worked perfectly. The best option would be something like a .44 or larger, but sometimes they don't let you bring guns in to parkland.


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## maskman (Aug 22, 2010)

I have only one experience with a bear in camp and it didn't involve a flashlight. I recently moved from Wyoming, but for 35 years I enjoyed countless nights camping under a tent and in a sleeping bag. Knowing I was in bear country I always went prepared. Going somewhere loaded for bear is more than just a saying. Since discussion boards abound in opinions I'll share mine and many of my outdoors friends opinions. If you want to chance pissing a bear off, hit it with pepper spray. If you want to show a bear where it's next meal is use a flashlight. If you want to protect yourself from a bear take the proper handgun.


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## NY bouncer (Aug 22, 2010)

probably would work, it would have to be really bright and concentrate beam at it's eyes it may temporarily blind it, but if it's a maneater and it's determine to kill you it's not gonna be scared by a stupid light which is only bothersome to the bear but doesn't really cause any extreme pain or injury that would deter it enough


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## mrartillery (Aug 22, 2010)

This may interest you......


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 22, 2010)

SiliconCali said:


> Maybe you could stick the light under your chin and made your face look really scary. Works on kids.



I think this is the best plan. :laughing:

Geoff


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## EZO (Aug 22, 2010)

Hey, mrartillery, that was interesting! Thanks for posting the link. 

Now I can't wait for the next bear or other critter, (lately it's been red foxes and coyotes) to show up here and see how he reacts to one of my brighter lights. I wonder if the tint makes a difference?
Oh, SH*T!!.....he's not bothered by warm neutral......RUN!!!!!


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## maxotar (Aug 22, 2010)

A 1W Blue laser would probably be more effective than a flashlight.


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## bighottaco (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks for all the replys.
Avoidance is best and then pepper spray seems most
practical.


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## hyperloop (Aug 22, 2010)

EZO said:


> I had a pretty large black bear get into the birdfeeder out on my deck late at night awhile back (late Winter, early Spring) At first, he was hunched over with his head level with the feeder that stands six feet above the floor of the deck so he was a good sized adult probably in the neighborhood of two fifty to three hundred pounds. Before long he had ripped the whole feeder off the steel pole it's mounted on and the next thing you know he's lying on his back shaking the feeder into his mouth. Pretty cute, and I'm watching all this through the sliding glass door from about four feet away. So, with a 357 magnum within easy reach and a Nikon D300 in my hands I start shooting pictures but of course the flash was reflecting off the glass. Then I got brave (or stupid, as the case may be) and opened the door a crack and try shooting photos again. The bear retreats to the lower level of the deck but pokes his head up to get another look at the situation since he's obviously still hungry and wants what's left in the feeder but it became clear very quickly that he really didn't like the flash from the camera when he decided to turn and leave after getting zapped with the flash a few more times.
> 
> So I can't say for sure, but this could be an example of where the much maligned strobe feature that many of us have no practical use for on our lights might come in very handy.




any pictures of the bear to share?


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## SiliconCali (Aug 23, 2010)

Flying Turtle said:


> I think this is the best plan. :laughing:
> 
> Geoff



Hehe, thanks Turtle. I knew eventually I would find someone who appreciates my sense of humor.


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## StarHalo (Aug 23, 2010)

"Hey look, there's a flashlight in this pile of bear sh*t.."


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## Cataract (Aug 23, 2010)

As it has been mentioned, different types of bears react differently. From comparing information from different parks, I also came to the conclusion that the same bear types have different habits (therefore reactions) from one region to region. Ask rangers who work in the same area you're about to visit to make sure.

It is my personnal belief that animals will react differently to light sources, depending on their intent. A racoon that is simply minding his own business in the woods seems to just freeze at best (he was obviously used to human presence). On the other hand, a racoon that is "stealing" from trash cans will leave at any sign of being discovered, since he knows humans don't like that and usually do something about it. 

I don't think that light iself has any more effect on animals than people. A quick flash CAN be disturbing, but anyone can get used to a regular strobe or constant light. Just think at all those quys in the savannah filming lions at night with millions of candle power. The lions (or any other animals for that matter) don't seem to care at all and it doesn't keep them from hunting game. Then again, they don't seem to approach the vehicle at all, while they might come close to sniff around during day time. 

Here's a simple experiment I believe can teach us what an animal might experience: Turn on a bright light at dusk (I suggest dusk because animals have much better vision than us at night) and go in front of it at about the distance you would expect to encounter a bear. You might not find it pleasing to look straight at the light, but it won't keep you from seeing what is around. While the light might hide your silouhette, you are not hidden. I believe it can help scaring some animals away, since they shouldn't be able to judge how big you are, but they're not idiots either: I wouldn't count on that if I had been spotted first.

I think it is best to have a good light source, since a bear will smell and hear you better than you would be able to spot him. Therefore, knowing where they are is your first step to aiming whatever else you have for protection. If they're not protecting anything, there's a good chance they'll leave, since light is unnatural at night in the woods and I'm sure that even if most animals don't seem to care, it most certainly does _something_ to their vision. And if the bear is hungry or mad, at least you now have a chance to react properly. They won't need the light to spot you, so you might as well know what's coming before it's too late. And even if the bear wasn't aware of your presence first, you might as well let him know before you startle him. Even if you retreat slowly, he might hear you and you'll find out his intentions the hard way. (Even waiting for 20 minutes without moving or breathing, only to find out he was gone the second he heard you counts as the hard way)

That said, a flashlight is not a weapon, so unless all you're facing are black bears, be prepared. Bears are not around exclusively at night. If there are bigger brown bears around, I would also apply the rule of two equals one and one equals none for bear deterrent. Have more than one can of bear spray and some other backup method of scaring them after screaming and waving your arms. (whistle or anything noisy. If you carry a gun, make sure it's powerfull enough to do damage, rather than just ****' em off!)


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## Cataract (Aug 23, 2010)

StarHalo said:


> "Hey look, there's a flashlight in this pile of bear sh*t.."


 
LOL

Someone carrying some older bear spray was once told : "Why do you bring seasoning if you don't want to be eaten?"


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## computernut (Aug 23, 2010)

A bright, throwy light will probably help you see the bear further away and let you turn around or avoid him. It would also let animals know further away that you are coming. The issue is animals that are threatened or hungry that want to eat you or protect their territory or young. If I wound up in a situation I'd want the brightest light I had rather than the dimmest. Would it help scare a bear away, probably not if it wasn't scared off when it saw you coming. 

When you're out at night it's nice to have a nice low diffused light for close-up stuff but when you hear or see something further away a thrower like the E2DL comes in handy. I was out camping once and when I was off walking at night I saw something reflective under the brush that I was pretty sure were eyes watching me. I pulled out my E2L with its TIR and I could then see it was just a house cat. But for a second my head and heart were racing. Another time I used my E2DL to identify a racoon. Instead of "OMG, let's get the hell out of here!", it's "oh, it's a racoon, let's continue on our way". For camping duties I'd rather an E2L or L1 with an F04 but for a bump-in-the-night light the E2DL is nice. Putting an F04 on it will cover up the spikes and make it useful for close-up stuff. The high coming on first is kind of annoying though depending on the situation.


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## victory (Aug 23, 2010)

I'd be concerned that a bear would have trouble passing the sharp edges on the E2DL after it eats you.


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