# Are Some Surefire Flashlights Made in China?



## Arnulf (Mar 25, 2010)

Just wondering?


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## Niconical (Mar 25, 2010)

No. 

However, some parts of some Surefires are made outside of the USA. Just from memory I believe that is some LEDs in the far east (not sure if China or somewhere else), and I might have read once that some incan lamps are made in Mexico, but don't quote me on that. 

Also, the ICON lights are made in China, but they are a subsidiary (or whatever the word is) of Surefire, not an actual Surefire.


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## Arnulf (Mar 25, 2010)

Thanks for the reply and the info.


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## kramer5150 (Mar 25, 2010)

no
Some _may _ have USA made XRE emitters. The white backed XREs are USA made, silver backed ones are made in China.


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## angelofwar (Mar 25, 2010)

As stated above, some of their incan lamps assemblies were made in Mexico (I have 2 of them), and, IIRC, they had to have their L.A.'s made there for a few months when Welch Alyn (?) closed one of there factories?


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## JNewell (Mar 25, 2010)

I think there was a thread on "Made in USA" here a while back. Two things I remember, and one thing I know. I remember that there were two different standards for "Made in US," one from the DOD and another from some other federal agency (Commerce? not sure). They were a fair bit different.

What I know (and you know too  ) is that SureFire has a LOT of DOD sales, so it's a pretty sure bet that they're complying with the fairly stringent DOD standard.


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## Tempest UK (Mar 25, 2010)

Niconical said:


> Also, the ICON lights are made in China, but they are a subsidiary (or whatever the word is) of Surefire, not an actual Surefire.



ICON is a completely different company to SureFire. It is PK's venture into a very different kind of product and target market. 

Regards,
Tempest


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## Size15's (Mar 25, 2010)

SureFires are designed and assembled in the USA from both domestic and foreign components. They qualify as "American Made" under the Buy American Act. 

SureFire use LEDs that are not themselves always "Made in the USA". As a result SureFire can not use the "Made in the USA" claim without qualification because a flashlight's light source is not a 'negligible' part - it is essential to its function. Given SureFire's diverse product range I understand they opt for using the Buy American Act description even though some of their lights can meet the "Made in the USA" rules as well.

Unlike the "Made in the USA" rules, I understand the "Buy American Act" allows for functional foreign components where there is no viable domestic alternative.



angelofwar said:


> As stated above, some of their incan lamps assemblies were made in Mexico (I have 2 of them), and, IIRC, they had to have their L.A.'s made there for a few months when Welch Alyn (?) closed one of there factories?


SureFire uses Carley for their bespoke incandescent bulbs, and Carley haven't always been able to meet SureFire's demand using their US facilities.
SureFire makes it's Lamp Assembly components in the USA. Carley bulbs are made in the USA - it's Carley's potting of the bulbs into SureFire's assemblies that is done just across the boarder in Mexico.

I know that SureFire cares very much about making their own components at their state of the art manufacturing and assembly facilities in SoCal
They use long-established domestic partners for anodising, and for polymer components such as their bespoke Nitrolon.

When you speak to SureFire employees you quickly recognise their integrity and pride they have in their products and their mission. Impressive American enthusiasm.

Al


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## Robin24k (Mar 26, 2010)

Size15's said:


> SureFire use LEDs that are not themselves always "Made in the USA". As a result SureFire can not use the "Made in the USA" claim without qualification because a flashlight's light source is not a 'negligible' part - it is essential to its function.


Interesting...on a slight side note, perhaps this is why Maglite uses Luxeon LEDs? Although the LED models say "A USA Manufacturer" rather than "Made in USA"...


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## LightJaguar (Mar 26, 2010)

Size15's said:


> SureFires are designed and assembled in the USA from both domestic and foreign components. They qualify as "American Made" under the Buy American Act.
> 
> SureFire use LEDs that are not themselves always "Made in the USA". As a result SureFire can not use the "Made in the USA" claim without qualification because a flashlight's light source is not a 'negligible' part - it is essential to its function. Given SureFire's diverse product range I understand they opt for using the Buy American Act description even though some of their lights can meet the "Made in the USA" rules as well.
> 
> ...


Now thats interesting. I wonder were in Mexico some of their stuff gets made. I'm kind of confused too. So some of their stuff gets shipped across the border to get assembled in Mexico and then get shipped back assembled? Damn no wonder their stuff is expensive. 
Either way I like their stuff. The other day I saw a Surefire sticker on the window of an SUV in Fountain Valley and it brought a smile to myself


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## Size15's (Mar 26, 2010)

LightJaguar said:


> Now thats interesting. I wonder were in Mexico some of their stuff gets made. I'm kind of confused too. So some of their stuff gets shipped across the border to get assembled in Mexico and then get shipped back assembled? Damn no wonder their stuff is expensive.
> Either way I like their stuff. The other day I saw a Surefire sticker on the window of an SUV in Fountain Valley and it brought a smile to myself


That’s right. I understand it is Carley that ship it’s elements of the process between it’s factories before it returns the completed or partially completed Lamp Assemblies back to SureFire.
There have been occasions in the past that to expedite delivery those Lamp Assemblies that are completed once Carley is done with their role, the finished Lamp Assemblies are drop-shopped directly from Carley to dealers or even customers.


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## Solscud007 (Mar 26, 2010)

Al, is it true the Icons are made in china? I would imagine that SF would make them.


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## Tempest UK (Mar 26, 2010)

SureFire is SureFire. ICON is not SureFire.

SureFire is American Made, as has been outlined already.

ICON is made in China. ICON is PK's, not SureFire's. 

They're very different companies, both in terms of the products they are making and, accordingly, the people they are aimed at. 

Regards,
Tempest


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## Size15's (Mar 26, 2010)

SureFire and ICON are individual and distinct separate brands.
PK is masterminding ICON as a separate entity to SureFire branded products.

ICONs are made in China to PK’s exacting standards according to his designs.


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## defloyd77 (Mar 27, 2010)

Robin24k said:


> Interesting...on a slight side note, perhaps this is why Maglite uses Luxeon LEDs? Although the LED models say "A USA Manufacturer" rather than "Made in USA"...



I've wondered this too. BTW other than the Crees Surefire use that may or may not be US made, they also use Seouls, which are Korean.


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## dano (Mar 27, 2010)

There's been a lot of rumors that SF uses overseas manufacturing to keep up with demand. Not sure how true that is, however, SF has used Streamlight in the past for the 8X/9N models (to manufacture the aluminum bodies).


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## angelofwar (Apr 1, 2010)

Just got back from the local Shack...they had a solid black Icon Rogue 2 for $50...I was like "Wow"...what the hell are these doing here". Of course, I immediately looked at the back (remembering this thread). The address for the company was 

Icon Lights
18300 Mount Baldy Circle
Fountain Valley, CA 92708
(Same as SF's address)

And at the bottom,

"Light made in China". 

So, I'm guessing Dr. Matthews kinda worked with PK and let him use his companies muscle to help him get it up and running? I mean, while the Icons are made in china, if you wrote a letter to the company, it would (essentially) be going to Surefire's "Icon" department. It was a really sweet looking light, I might add...the hollowed frame looks much better in person. PK made some lights to appeal to the "other kinda people" that require well made/nice looking illumination tools. 

Just thought I'd share...

Oh, it did mention the Honorable Paul Kim on the back of the packaging, which I think was really cool as well...

When's the last time he visited this place???


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## anonymoususer (Apr 2, 2010)

Tempest UK said:


> SureFire is SureFire. ICON is not SureFire.
> 
> SureFire is American Made, as has been outlined already.
> 
> ...





angelofwar said:


> Just got back from the local Shack...they had a solid black Icon Rogue 2 for $50...I was like "Wow"...what the hell are these doing here". Of course, I immediately looked at the back (remembering this thread). The address for the company was
> 
> Icon Lights
> 18300 Mount Baldy Circle
> ...



I could care less who owns Icon or SF. But according to the second quote, unless PK owns SF then Icon is an conglomerate of SF. So in other words, SF sold out to China.


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## greenLED (Apr 2, 2010)

...and here we go (yet again)...


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## carrot (Apr 2, 2010)

greenLED said:


> ...and here we go (yet again)...


Yep.


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## JNewell (Apr 2, 2010)

carrot said:


> Yep.



It's ok. Ever since WJC, we've all known that words have no meaning anyway. :shakehead


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## Kestrel (Apr 2, 2010)

angelofwar said:


> Oh, it did mention the Honorable Paul Kim on the back of the packaging, which I think was really cool as well...
> 
> When's the last time he visited this place???


Back in 2009, aside from a few postings of his on the Icon, his most recent posts are in this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228755

But my favorite PK post is here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2207565&postcount=103
(BTW if you read back a few posts, you'll see that the G2 in question was rendered with a graphic taken from a photo of PK's shirt. :huh: )

Anyway, fun PK stuff, although slightly OT. 
And I wish he'd post here more often as well...


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## jp2515 (Apr 2, 2010)

greenLED said:


> ...and here we go (yet again)...



:thumbsup:


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## DLF (Apr 22, 2010)

JNewell said:


> It's ok. Ever since WJC, we've all known that words have no meaning anyway. :shakehead


What do you mean by "have"?


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## angelofwar (Apr 22, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> Back in 2009, aside from a few postings of his on the Icon, his most recent posts are in this thread:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228755
> 
> But my favorite PK post is here:
> ...


 
Thanks Kestrel! Interesting threads Indeed!


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## jondotcom (Apr 15, 2011)

DOD, one of "the most stringent" often just requires transformation in "Americas," not America. That is why they are *MADE* elsewhere and only *ASSEMBLED/transorfmed* in AMERICA*S*. Most people still don't get the difference.

I have not noticed any models that are claimed to be even made in usa. If there are I'd be surprised, and would be glad to know. In my unenlightened opinion they are a high quality imported product.


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## Machete God (Apr 15, 2011)

jondotcom said:


> ... In my opinion they are a high quality imported product.


 Whereas in MY opinion, they are a high quality product assembled in the USA with mostly USA-made components


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## angelofwar (Apr 15, 2011)

Machete God said:


> Whereas in MY opinion, they are a high quality product assembled in the USA with mostly USA-made components


 
I have to agree with you MG. AFAIK, everything except the emitter is made in the USA on 95% of their lights, with the other 5-10% having american made emittiers. And a good deal of emitters are made elsewhere as well, Korea and Japan being big exporters. They order bar-stock aluminum, cut it down, CNC it, build there circuit boards and assemble, etch, and package it, ALL right there in CA, where's it's then shipped to dealers. They mold there own G2 bodies right there as well. Not sure how that would qualify as "Imported"???

We then go and put Malkoff's in them, Making them 100% American made.


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## jondotcom (Apr 15, 2011)

angelofwar said:


> I have to agree with you MG. AFAIK, everything except the emitter is made in the USA on 95% of their lights, with the other 5-10% having american made emittiers. And a good deal of emitters are made elsewhere as well, Korea and Japan being big exporters. They order bar-stock aluminum, cut it down, CNC it, build there circuit boards and assemble, etch, and package it, ALL right there in CA, where's it's then shipped to dealers. They mold there own G2 bodies right there as well. Not sure how that would qualify as "Imported"???
> We then go and put Malkoff's in them, Making them 100% American made.



If that is true I will buy one. I held one in my hands but couldn't depart with the money because I didn't notice anything saying "made in USA." If it is true they would market that, right? Would be nice if someone would lend a pointer.

I'm one of those that will happily spend more to buy American (USA of course), but have found over and over that those products you think are still made here actually aren't.


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## angelofwar (Apr 16, 2011)

From there 2011 Catalog...

The Lights:

"And we design, machine, finish, and assemble
nearly every major part of our SureFire illumination tools and
tactical products right here in the USA."

And for the batteries...

"Made in the U.S.A. and private-labeled for SureFire,
these batteries "

The Pens:

"Built in the U.S.A., with imported
Schmidt®
Technology easyFLOW 9000 ink cartridges"


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 16, 2011)

Its not easy to navigate, but *here's* a photo tour showing a few things:


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## ARA (Apr 16, 2011)

If i remember correctly in a recent thread someone had pointed out that the Icon website was registered to Surefire, so in a way Surefire has created a cheaper foreign made brand while maintaining its US made Surefire brand image. Nothing wrong with that a lot of companies these days have cheaper brands while concurrently producing their luxury/expensive brands.


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## angelofwar (Apr 16, 2011)

ElectronGuru said:


> Its not easy to navigate, but *here's* a photo tour showing a few things:


 
Awesome link EG! Thanks!


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## angelofwar (Apr 16, 2011)

ARA said:


> If i remember correctly in a recent thread someone had pointed out that the Icon website was registered to Surefire, so in a way Surefire has created a cheaper foreign made brand while maintaining its US made Surefire brand image. Nothing wrong with that a lot of companies these days have cheaper brands while concurrently producing their luxury/expensive brands.


 
Yes, and the back of the Icon packaging lists it's address as that of Surefire as well.


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## jondotcom (Apr 16, 2011)

angelofwar said:


> From there 2011 Catalog...
> The Lights:
> "And we design, machine, finish, and assemble
> nearly every major part of our SureFire illumination tools and
> ...



Thanks, that is great if it means what it implies, that the U.S.A. is the ONLY place they design, machine, finish, and assemble
nearly every major part. I assume minor parts are emitters, springs, etc. Great for them bucking the trend!


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## Size15's (Apr 17, 2011)

ElectronGuru said:


> Its not easy to navigate, but *here's* a photo tour showing a few things:


 
Funny how the X400 components look like Millennium Universal WeaponLight components, and other things are not quite right. But perhaps its the website and my HTC Desire not getting on?


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## HooNz (Apr 17, 2011)

I suppose i had not better mention Harley Davidson since 1977 at least! as that would be 'off topic' :thinking:


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## ARA (Apr 17, 2011)

Size15's said:


> Funny how the X400 components look like Millennium Universal WeaponLight components, and other things are not quite right. But perhaps its the website and my HTC Desire not getting on?


 
Nothing wrong with your phone, some of the narrations do seem incorrect.


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## Machete God (Apr 18, 2011)

jondotcom said:


> In my unenlightened opinion


 


Machete God said:


> Whereas in MY opinion


Sorry for the terse reply and eye-rolling there, jon. I was trying to point out that (contrary to popular belief) opinions can be wrong, especially those not borne by facts - I guess you realised this when you added 'unlightened' to your initial post 



jondotcom said:


> If that is true I will buy one. I held one in my hands but couldn't depart with the money because I didn't notice anything saying "made in USA." If it is true they would market that, right? Would be nice if someone would lend a pointer.


The LED is an integral part of a flashlight, however small it may be in relation to the size of the flashlight. So if the LED is made elsewhere, they aren't allowed (?) to put 'Made in USA' on the box.

Hope that helped! 

P.S. :welcome:


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## fishndad (May 12, 2012)

Look guys Surefire and many other manufacturing companies are all but forced to seek outside the USA to produce a final product.
their are only so many companies producing, LEDs , for examlpe here in the US. Some of those will not meet the standards of 
Surefire, for example so in order to keep up they purchase parts from other than US manufacturing.
My GMC 1500 has parts made in china and so does your Ford sorry thats what the world has come to.
Union Proud IBEW Local 683


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## Toohotruk (May 12, 2012)

Kestrel said:


> Back in 2009, aside from a few postings of his on the Icon, his most recent posts are in this thread:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228755
> 
> But my favorite PK post is here:
> ...



I don't care what anyone says, PK is one class act! :bow::bow::bow:

I emailed him once to thank him for the PK Icon I won here in a raffle, and he sent me a very nice reply...that really made my day (week, month, life!), and showed me that he doesn't consider himself too important to take some time to reply to us "lower level" flashaholics.

Back on topic: One thing I do know, is that SF does their best to use US made materials to make their products...these days it's not possible to make something 100% US made in most cases. I just bought a brand new 2011 Ford Ranger, and in the glove box I found a statement saying 65% of the truck was American made. I still consider it to be an American made vehicle. Besides, the majority of the money made by American based companies still trickles into the American economy in one way or another.

I don't feel bad about owning a couple dozen Surefire products, even if the emitters are made overseas.


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## yifu (May 13, 2012)

Machete God;3624625
The LED is an integral part of a flashlight said:


> Cree makes most of the LED dies in the US. The packaging (MCPB/silicon dome etc) is done in a plant in Hong Kong. So i would consider it US made.


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