# Premature CFL Burnout



## Lightmeup (Jun 13, 2008)

I know I remember seeing a thread here about this but I couldn't find it. My neighbor has a couple of floorlamps with 3-way switches. He's been using 3-way CFL bulbs made by n:Vision, bought at Home Depot. They only seem to last around 5-7 before burning out. 

I seem to remember talk here of faulty sockets, etc., causing this problem. Does anyone have any suggestions?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jun 13, 2008)

I'd like to hear the answer to that, as well. I replaced a pair of incans with CFLs barely more than a year ago. When they were fresh, they were really white and bright. After half a year or so, they started to turn kind of dim and orange (very warm/low color temp).


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## mchlwise (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: thanks for the post!*



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## Bongo (Jun 17, 2008)

I have an eye condition wherein I need bright light in order to see clearly (like to read). I used to have 4 banks of two 4-foot fluorescents (8 tubes total) in my room. It looked silly but it worked. About four years ago I drilled out some ceiling fixtures and bought some lamps to switch to CFL's and look (slightly) less ridiculous. And I have to say that CFL's suck.

Those original 4 banks cost $8 (usd) each at Home Depot and lasted over 6 years, the bulbs only cost $2 dollars (soft white) and lasted about 5 years each. Since I switched to the CFL's out of 8 total in my room I lose one to 'burn out' almost every 2 to 3 months. When they do burn out there is always a burnt or brown spot on the base. These are not the cheap CFL's either but the major brand name ones. Also, considering how many CFL's I throw away a year it starts to really add up the utter waste of having the ballast and bulb in one unit. Sure _ my _ electric bill is lower but the societal cost of making those units then throwing them away seems really wasteful to me.

I really looked around as to why some people have such problems with CFL's (like me) and I only found two things that might apply:

Firstly a lot of people have their AC power reversed in some light fixtures. In old things like incans, reversed power is no big deal, but modern electronic devices are not so forgiving. My father burned out the mainboard on a new refrigerator because he wired the wall outlet backwards. It worked fine for 6 months, but the reversed electricity bypassed all the voltage spike protection circuity, which leads me to #2; dirty electricity. A lot of people have dirty electricity. Even if your power company is decent you can still spike your power by running electric heaters, and heavy appliances, and most light fixtures are not spike protected like one's computer or TV.

If I ever remodel my house I would go back to the 4-foot tubes and never buy a CFL for anything other than a desk lamp.


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## Illum (Jun 17, 2008)

Lightmeup said:


> I know I remember seeing a thread here about this but I couldn't find it. My neighbor has a couple of floorlamps with 3-way switches. He's been using 3-way CFL bulbs made by n:Vision, bought at Home Depot. They only seem to last around 5-7 before burning out.
> 
> I seem to remember talk here of faulty sockets, etc., causing this problem. Does anyone have any suggestions?




I'm not familiar with the design of CFLs to fully understand whether it may or may not have a problem with 3 way switches. The lamp's electronics may be designed only to be used in binary switches and therefore are not equipped with step-up circuitry for the ballast to work properly when the power input decreases. [Note the caution on the lamp not to use with dimmers]. If this is the case, then I feel its safe to sepculate that the burnouts are mainly due to Ballast failures :candle:



Bongo said:


> Firstly a lot of people have their AC power reversed in some light fixtures. In old things like incans, reversed power is no big deal, but modern electronic devices are not so forgiving. My father burned out the mainboard on a new refrigerator because he wired the wall outlet backwards. It worked fine for 6 months, but the reversed electricity bypassed all the voltage spike protection circuity,



:thinking:
AC is alternating current, AC does not have polarity, theretically it shouldn't be the powers problem. Unless your referring to surge, that could easily fry electronics that are not equipped with MOV Clamping capability.


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## Bongo (Jun 17, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> AC is alternating current, AC does not have polarity, theretically it shouldn't be the powers problem. Unless your referring to surge, that could easily fry electronics that are not equipped with MOV Clamping capability.



I used to think that too and with motors, heaters, or incans it doesnt' matter, but in AC household circuitry there is the HOT (+/- voltage), NEUTRAL (completes the cirtuit), and GROUND (backup neutral). Some light fixtures (like old houses, self done room additions, or lazy contractors) have the HOT and NEUTRAL reversed mostly because the only thing that would ever go in there was an incan bulb. Some electronics are very sensitive to which side of the AC circuit is HOT and wich is NEUTRAL (that's why one side of the plug is bigger). The theory proposed is that most bulb manufactures don't bother to add reversed AC detecting/correcting circuitry because it costs money, and any damage done to the bulb is the homeowners fault. It's just a theory though.


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## 2xTrinity (Jun 18, 2008)

Bongo said:


> I used to think that too and with motors, heaters, or incans it doesnt' matter, but in AC household circuitry there is the HOT (+/- voltage), NEUTRAL (completes the cirtuit), and GROUND (backup neutral). Some light fixtures (like old houses, self done room additions, or lazy contractors) have the HOT and NEUTRAL reversed mostly because the only thing that would ever go in there was an incan bulb. Some electronics are very sensitive to which side of the AC circuit is HOT and wich is NEUTRAL (that's why one side of the plug is bigger). The theory proposed is that most bulb manufactures don't bother to add reversed AC detecting/correcting circuitry because it costs money, and any damage done to the bulb is the homeowners fault. It's just a theory though.


The first thing that happens to the AC in a CFL is it's run through a bridge rectifier, to convert it into DC, so it shouldn't be relevant which side is hot/neutral. Hot/neutral would be a problem in a device with a metallic case which might become charged, and potentially unsafe, if such a reversal were to happen.

There are two other factors that ARE very relevant, in light of the fact that CFL ballasts are far crappier than true electronic 4ft fluorescent ballasts in every way:


*Dirty power supply* -- spikes etc. which might not affect an incan filament
*Heat* -- CFLs tend to fare MUCH worse in base-up operation, particularly in insulated fixture where large amounts of heat build up in the base, where the ballast is located. This heat buildup can lead to discoloration problems in the tube, and premature lamp failure. In order for a CFL to have reasonable lifespan in base-up ceiling installation, it's probably wise to get one which uses more heat-tolerant circuitry, and a mercury amalgam intended to run at higher temperature
the drawback is that the lamps that can survive these conditions take about 1 minute to reach full brightness, as they have to heat up to work properly.




> I'm not familiar with the design of CFLs to fully understand whether it may or may not have a problem with 3 way switches. The lamp's electronics may be designed only to be used in binary switches and therefore are not equipped with step-up circuitry for the ballast to work properly when the power input decreases. [Note the caution on the lamp not to use with dimmers].


A 3-level switch is not a dimmer. It's actually two switches. 3-level bulbs have extra contacts and two filaments, and can have one, the other, or both on. 

3-level CFLs have the extra contact, however, and what they'll do is instead of having two filaments, and they can detect whether one or both of the switches is on, and adjust the current output from the ballast accordingly. There is no harm in putting an ordinary CFL in a 3-way socket. Installing a regular bulb (which doesn't have an extra contact) in a three level switch is no different than installing it a binary switch.


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