# Type II and Type III Anodizing



## edap617 (Jun 2, 2008)

Almost all flashlights that are made of aluminum are either type II or type III anodized. How do we know if it is type II or type III at a glance? What are the brands that are type III anodized? 

Thank you.


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## KeyGrip (Jun 2, 2008)

Type II can be dyed to pretty much any color, so that's a good place to start. It's usualy shinier than type III. Type III (or hard anodize, note that there is no such thing as hard anodize type II and that HAIII is kinda redundant) is either natural (no dye) or black (just black dye). Natural runs in a color spectrum from greenish to grey to almost tan. The most common standard I've sen for type III is a US military standard. Many brands use both depending on the light being used. Smaller companies like Arc, Peak, and Ra use type III exclusively because their design ethic leans toward durable lights.


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## Gunner12 (Jun 2, 2008)

One of the easier ways to find out(if you don't mind damaging your light) is to use a knife to try and scratch the surface.

If you succeed, the it is probably type II.

For something less destructive, lower priced lights that have HA usually advertise that(though some on questionable sites can be lies). For higher priced lights, it is usually also noted as part of the specs.

Looking by color or feel can also work, but some HA lights are dyed(most are customs) and type II can be rough too.


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## ampdude (Jun 2, 2008)

Sometimes, it's hard to tell. Some of the cheaper lights sometimes have a dull finish that looks like type III, but is not. With Surefire lights, it's usually pretty easy to tell as the type II finish they use on lights like the 6P and Z2 is fairly shiny, while the type III black like on the U2 and type III black version of the E2E or the E2D is fairly dull in look and feel.


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## cat (Jun 3, 2008)

Everyone claims to be HA III but none of them are as tough as Surefire milspec HA III.


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## Midnightrun (Jun 3, 2008)

cat said:


> Everyone claims to be HA III but none of them are as tough as Surefire milspec HA III.


 
Actually my ARC may be tougher than my surefire anodizing


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## LED-holic (Jun 3, 2008)

Just curious, from a day to day usage perspective, other than cosmetics, does it really matter which one you have on a light?

Is type II more prone to rusting? Trying to understand some practical effects of one versus the other.


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## shroomy (Jun 3, 2008)

cat said:


> Everyone claims to be HA III but none of them are as tough as Surefire milspec HA III.



Nah, I left this site up on my computer one day and left my dorm room. I came back later to find that my gf had come looking for me, seen this site, and started reading about HA. Anyway, to keep the story short, I came back a little while later and found her rubbing two of my flashlights together, a surefire and a non-surefire (both were HA). She called me over and said "look, this one chipped there" pointing at the surefire. And sure enough, there was a new chip in the anodizing.


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## zenas (Jun 3, 2008)

I think it makes nearly no difference whether it is type II oder III on your light. Have you ever seen rusty aluminum? Me not, because (automatically) it gets an nice oxide coating when exposed to oxidizing environment... Or is it just that I don't use my lights hard enough? Don't think so!


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## LED-holic (Jun 3, 2008)

shroomy said:


> Nah, I left this site up on my computer one day and left my dorm room. I came back later to find that my gf had come looking for me, seen this site, and started reading about HA. Anyway, to keep the story short, I came back a little while later and found her rubbing two of my flashlights together, a surefire and a non-surefire (both were HA). She called me over and said "look, this one chipped there" pointing at the surefire. And sure enough, there was a new chip in the anodizing.


Hi girlfriend!! :wave:

:welcome::welcome:


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## shroomy (Jun 3, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> Just curious, from a day to day usage perspective, other than cosmetics, does it really matter which one you have on a light?
> 
> Is type II more prone to rusting? Trying to understand some practical effects of one versus the other.



You meant type II vs. HA? I believe HA is just a thicker coat than type II, so I'd imagine it's more scratch resistant and wear resistant. Also, I think that anodizing is AlO, so I guess one could say that HA is just 'aluminum rust.'


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## shroomy (Jun 3, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> Hi girlfriend!! :wave:
> 
> :welcome::welcome:



  I laughed out loud at that. But I actually I hope she doesn't stick around CPF, she might realize that my L4 isn't really a "50 dollar flashlight"


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## KeyGrip (Jun 3, 2008)

shroomy said:


> Also, I think that anodizing is AlO, so I guess one could say that HA is just 'aluminum rust.'



But it's tough aluminum rust that doesn't get black crusty stuff on your hands.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 3, 2008)

cat said:


> Everyone claims to be HA III but none of them are as tough as Surefire milspec HA III.


+1 

Exactly, a simple knife test revels that in under a second. Inova's HA is pretty darn tough too.


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## Federal LG (Jun 3, 2008)

What´s the *difference* between type II and type III ?


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## Gunner12 (Jun 3, 2008)

The main difference is the thickness of the Aluminum Oxide layer.


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## edap617 (Jun 3, 2008)

Thank you for explaining the difference between the 2 types of anodizing.:thumbsup:


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Jun 3, 2008)

My WE Raider has a tougher coating than my SF 9P, but that's comparing HA to Type II, so it's not exactly a fair comparison :devil:.

On topic, the main difference is the thickness of the Aluminum Oxide. The process to create that layer is also different. Type II is done at warmer temperatures, and if you know what you're doing, you can do Type II anodizing yourself. HA is done at very cold temperatures and at higher voltages. Most people probably aren't set up to do HA.

A couple links:

http://www.pioneermetal.com/tech_bulletins/pdfs/anodize_hard_coat.pdf

http://www.focuser.com/atm/anodize/anodize.html


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## BBL (Jun 4, 2008)

cat said:


> Everyone claims to be HA III but none of them are as tough as Surefire milspec HA III.



which lights do you compare in that aspect?

I wish surefire would stop making type 2 lights.


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## geek4christ (Jun 4, 2008)

Federal LG said:


> What´s the *difference* between type II and type III ?



EDIT: Nevermind, Tekno_Cowboy explained it very well.


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## Federal LG (Jun 4, 2008)

Cool!
Thanks for the explanation.


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## greenLED (Jun 4, 2008)

Gunner12 said:


> The main difference is the thickness of the Aluminum Oxide layer.


...which is produced by differences in the process actual process. Off the top of my head, for HA, they use a chilled sulfuric acid solution and higher currents.


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Jun 4, 2008)

greenLED said:


> ...which is produced by differences in the process actual process. Off the top of my head, for HA, they use a chilled sulfuric acid solution and higher currents.


 
Yep, though I'm not sure of the specifics


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## joshwang (Jun 5, 2008)

Wonder if you could get "colored" HA?:thinking:
Blue, purple, or maybe even green?


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## Tekno_Cowboy (Jun 5, 2008)

joshwang said:


> Wonder if you could get "colored" HA?:thinking:
> Blue, purple, or maybe even green?


 
Pretty much just black and natural. It would be nice though


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## geek4christ (Jun 5, 2008)

joshwang said:


> Wonder if you could get "colored" HA?:thinking:
> Blue, purple, or maybe even green?



Fenix has gotten Orange/Gold, Purple and Blue out with relative success. There are inconsistencies from body to head color, but otherwise, they look really good considering that they're Type III. They're just not as vibrant as the colors we're used to seeing on Type II anodized lights.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2480913&postcount=190


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## MikeSalt (Jun 5, 2008)

Whatever was Type I anodizing? Is that the oxide layer natually formed on bare aluminium?

A few people have mentioned that not all Hard-Anodizing is created equal. My Fenix P1D-CE is Type III, but it the finish has taken a real hammering from my keys. Inspecting the E1e, it seems much tougher. Actually, as soon as the replacement bezel and Z57 arrive, I shall do a test on the old parts.

Actually, my old Fenix has got to the point where I am considering removing all the remaining anodizing and coating it in plastikote or something similar. That would look pretty cool (not too thick though to allow heat to escape). Going to take a while to completely prepare the knurling though


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 5, 2008)

MikeSalt said:


> Whatever was Type I anodizing? Is that the oxide layer natually formed on bare aluminium?
> 
> A few people have mentioned that not all Hard-Anodizing is created equal. My Fenix P1D-CE is Type III, but it the finish has taken a real hammering from my keys. Inspecting the E1e, it seems much tougher. Actually, as soon as the replacement bezel and Z57 arrive, I shall do a test on the old parts.
> 
> Actually, my old Fenix has got to the point where I am considering removing all the remaining anodizing and coating it in plastikote or something similar. That would look pretty cool (not too thick though to allow heat to escape). Going to take a while to completely prepare the knurling though


That is because Fenix is not really Type-III (HA) Mil Spec, but just a "coarser" version of common type-II anodizing. Same as in Lumapower lights, but at least they are honest on not calling it true HA.


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## HKJ (Jun 5, 2008)

A good source is wikipedia:

The most widely used anodizing specification, MIL-A-8625, defines three types of aluminium anodization. Type I is Chromic Acid Anodization, Type II is Sulfuric Acid Anodization and Type III is sulfuric acid hardcoat anodization.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anodizing


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## shroomy (Jun 5, 2008)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> That is because Fenix is not really Type-III (HA) Mil Spec, but just a "coarser" version of common type-II anodizing. Same as in Lumapower lights, but at least they are honest on not calling it true HA.



Really? Any proof of that?


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 5, 2008)

shroomy said:


> Really? Any proof of that?


Just get a knife and test it yourself. True Mil Spec HA should have a hardness around 70 on the Rockwell C scale. You should not be able to easily scratch such hard surface using common knife steel, which is way softer than that. I've tested the surfaces on all my Arcs, Inova, SureFire, HDS, Amilite, Jill and custom lights -->> all passed. Fenix, Lumapower and cheaper asian brands, all failed. They are a wee bit harder and more scratch resistant than common Type-II commonly found on Maglites, however they are nowhere near Type-III Mil Spec standards.

http://www.pioneermetal.com/finishes/hanodize.php


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## greenLED (Jun 5, 2008)

Good point, OF. We gotta keep in mind that not all hard anodizing (HA) is "MILSPEC" HA.


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## shroomy (Jun 5, 2008)

Hmm, alright, i tested it but it didn't scratch, I went at it pretty good too. What model did you test, and i guess when did you purchase it? I tested the P3D Q5, purchased in november. It could be that they changed the process at some point, or perhaps it varies between models. That might explain why we got different results.


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## greenLED (Jun 5, 2008)

...or different people are willing to push harder on the anodizing with another metal object. I've never thought that was an accurate test (unless you used a standard pressure, area, etc.), but that's just me.


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## shroomy (Jun 5, 2008)

That's very true, I went back and tried again, and I can scratch the P3D if I really try. Not so much a scratch, but in the light I can follow the path the blade took (the area is still black). I tested this on my L4, and got the same results. The line is actually more visible on the l4, but it could just be that the damage shows more on olive HA than black HA. And admittedly I did boil this l4 several times trying to unscrew the head so that I could mod it, maybe that weakened the HA. 

As for the variable force aspect, I did try to press down equally hard, and it think I was sucessfult. But I agree completely with what you said.


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## Size15's (Apr 23, 2011)

Lego995743 said:


> Is the G2L Type III??


That depends...

The current G2L-BK (Black) comes with the KX4-BKHA LED bezel. It's Type III "HA" Black anodised.
The Olive Drab (-OD), Yellow (-YL) and Tan (-TN) colour finishes feature a 'powder-coated' type coloured finish version of the KX4.

I believe the old version of the G2L-BK which featured the P60L LED Lamp Assembly had a type II Black anodised bezel.

The body and TailCap are Nitrolon polymer.


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## Size15's (Apr 23, 2011)

Lego995743 said:


> Is the G2L Type III??


That depends...

The current G2L-BK (Black) comes with the KX4-BKHA LED bezel. It's Type III "HA" Black anodised.
The Olive Drab (-OD), Yellow (-YL) and Tan (-TN) colour finishes feature a 'powder-coated' type coloured finish version of the KX4.

I believe the old version of the G2L-BK which featured the P60L LED Lamp Assembly had a type II Black anodised bezel.

The body and TailCap are Nitrolon polymer.


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