# Single Mode Lights - Extinct?



## MrNaz (Aug 30, 2014)

Maybe I'm getting old. Maybe my brain is deteriorating. Maybe I'm turning into one of those cranky old "I hate change" types.

Why are there no decent single mode lights any more? All of my lights are either 3 or 5 modes when I only want one. What is wrong with my use case:

I go hunting at night. I have a light mounted to my rifle, a Sipik SK68 (with zoom ring epoxied at maximum throw) so that I can flick it on and then the view through the scope looks like day right out to 100m.

I also need a light for sweeping in search of game. For this I need a long throw handheld light. I used to have a really good Skyray $15 job which threw nicely out to almost 200m. They stopped making these lights, and I was unable to find anything else that could match it in throw. I resorted to buying a $120 ArmyTek Predator Pro and programmed it for single mode.

I also need a light for checking gear up close, reading maps, picking thorns out of my butt, etc. A nice, small, 14500 XPE that put out a ~50lm flood would be great for this.

NONE of these calls for multi mode. Yes, I could mix the use of the sweep light if it were high/low but I prefer a small light when I'm just rummaging gear up close. Why has single mode gone extinct? Am I really that unusual? Given the affinity Chinese manufacturers have with saving a faction of a cent per unit, why haven't they made single mode torches at the low end even? Even those craccy $4 18650 lights sport a half dozen modes these days.

Someone explain it to me. Has the world gone mad or am I just a cranky old man?

P.S., I'm 34.


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## MrNaz (Aug 30, 2014)

Here's a good 18650 XML light that would be IDEAL for the glove box of the car, except that it's got like 400 modes. (Actually 3, but still, I want just ONE!)


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## gunga (Aug 30, 2014)

How about a peak? Can be ordered in single mode. This is a level 4 model El Cap (AA) in brass. 

View attachment 169



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## leon2245 (Aug 30, 2014)

> Why are there no decent single mode lights any more?



Because all lights now have to be all things to all people- more & more of them have everything from a turbo mode pushed as bright as it will last for 30 seconds, to the lowest low & everything in between including blinky modes. They'll demand that a giant search and rescue light also have a sublumen moonlight mode on board so they can take it to the potty at night; then nothing else out there better have an on-paper higher showoff mode with the same number of batteries either.

What the more reputable names do, the knock off's will copy. But actually at least with edc's I've found more single modes still remain on the likes of fast tech & dx etc. than anywhere.


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## Moonshadow (Aug 30, 2014)

How about a Solarforce P60 Host and a single-mode dropin ?


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## subwoofer (Aug 30, 2014)

There are plenty of lights you can make single mode. The Armytek Predator and Viking can be effectively made into single mode, and the new NITECORE P20(UV) can also be made into single mode (as long as you don't hit the second button that gives strobe). The 5.11 S+R A2 and A6 (see my review listings for more info) are both simple single mode lights. There are also two mode lights where a twist of the head gives one or the other like the Fenix E21; if you don't twit the head is is a single mode light.

I like the simplicity of single mode lights, but also want to be able to set the output level I want. Single modes are great for emergency lights and lights to lend to others, but the flip side is that in an emergency you might prefer longer runtime or as bright as possible, but until you are in that emergency which will it be?


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## raz-0 (Aug 30, 2014)

Try the four sevens quark tactical. Program your mode for head tightened and then don't loosen the head for the second mode. Done.


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## RWT1405 (Aug 30, 2014)

Really? Malkoff.


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## blankc72 (Aug 30, 2014)

The VTAC mini L4 is single mode and made by surefire. It's the same size as an E1L and uses a single CR 123 battery. Used with an F04 diffuser it makes for a nice flood light at about 100 lumens output. 


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## blankc72 (Aug 30, 2014)

The VTAC mini L4 is a single mode light made by Surefire. It's the same size as an E1L and uses a single CR123 battery. The light puts out about 100 lumens and using a diffuser makes it a good little flood light. This is what I EDC.


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## jabe1 (Aug 30, 2014)

The Tank007 E09 is a single mode AA that accepts 14500, pretty well built, and it's cheap. It even has a lockout mode.


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## Cerealand (Aug 30, 2014)

P60 host with your choice of single mode drop-in.


if you're worried about size, get a vital gear fb1, Malkoff vimeo head, and an m31 of your choice.


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## Illum (Aug 30, 2014)

RWT1405 said:


> Really? Malkoff.



That's a drop-in, not a light built to be single mode from the ground up.


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## m4a1usr (Aug 30, 2014)

You can make most of those cheap lights a single mode by unsoldering the large capacitor on the driver board. It will always start in high mode.


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## leon2245 (Aug 30, 2014)

Also sf still makes some singe mode versions of theirs.


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## scout24 (Aug 30, 2014)

All my incands are single mode, from 15 lumen E1e's up to the M4's higher output. One of my current favorites is an MN01 lamp assembly in an E2e with a single CR123 and a dummy cell spacer. "Enough" output, but more to hang onto than the smaller E1e. And no, from here you're not cranky...


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## Gene43 (Aug 30, 2014)

Illum said:


> That's a drop-in, not a light built to be single mode from the ground up.



The Malkoff MD2 Turnkey was built to be a single mode and you can pick the brightness and/or tint by stating that you would like a substitution for a different flavor of M61 installed in the notes at checkout.


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## MrNaz (Aug 30, 2014)

leon2245 said:


> Because all lights now have to be all things to all people- more & more of them have everything from a turbo mode pushed as bright as it will last for 30 seconds, to the lowest low & everything in between including blinky modes. They'll demand that a giant search and rescue light also have a sublumen moonlight mode on board so they can take it to the potty at night; then nothing else out there better have an on-paper higher showoff mode with the same number of batteries either.



Great. So it really is the industry going bonkers and not just me losing my mind.



leon2245 said:


> What the more reputable names do, the knock off's will copy. But actually at least with edc's I've found more single modes still remain on the likes of fast tech & dx etc. than anywhere.



Yea, I've found a few, but the ones that I have found either look too low quality or aren't what I'm after. Ideally, I'd like a small 18650 like the one pictured that uses a high efficiency, modern emitter to put out around ~50-100lm that lasts forever on a charge and that I can keep in the glove box for changing tyres and finding that dollar coin under the seat. I don't want to have to pay $150 for such basics.



subwoofer said:


> There are plenty of lights you can make single mode. The Armytek Predator and Viking can be effectively made into single mode, and the new NITECORE P20(UV) can also be made into single mode (as long as you don't hit the second button that gives strobe). The 5.11 S+R A2 and A6 (see my review listings for more info) are both simple single mode lights. There are also two mode lights where a twist of the head gives one or the other like the Fenix E21; if you don't twit the head is is a single mode light.



So buy an expensive cannon and tune it down to a fly swatter? No thanks. I've already got a Predator Pro, and I really like it. It serves very well as my sweep light described above. However, I feel really, really stupid buying a $120 light to replace the old light I used to use for this purpose, which cost about $15.



subwoofer said:


> I like the simplicity of single mode lights, but also want to be able to set the output level I want. Single modes are great for emergency lights and lights to lend to others, but the flip side is that in an emergency you might prefer longer runtime or as bright as possible, but until you are in that emergency which will it be?



Granted, but in most cases, the "emergency" we're planning for is a flat tyre and night or a dropped peanut under the car seat. And even so, I can see an argument for 2 modes; high and low. I don't get the "high, sorta high, medium, a bit lower, low, moonlight, firefly, so-low-you-have-to-stare-at-the-die, flashing, strobe, I-love-you-in-morse" mode sets. So few people actually need tactical flashing, and those that do are usually LEO and willing to pay $200+ for a service light. In a cheap light, those modes just get in the way more than adding to the functionality that a regular user needs.



m4a1usr said:


> You can make most of those cheap lights a single mode by unsoldering the large capacitor on the driver board. It will always start in high mode.



Best. Suggestion. Ever. I'm breaking out my soldering iron right now.


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## idleprocess (Aug 30, 2014)

Back when the incandescent was king, single-mode was all you could do. The early LED lights followed this model because their brightness was low and driving electronics more sophisticated than a resistor were relatively new and expensive. 

As LED got more powerful and the electronics became more commodity, multimode came naturally. For most of the market, being able to toggle between a few lumens and a few hundred lumens is useful - especially in small form-factors where you may primarily use low modes, but periodically want max brightness. The opposite is often the case with larger lights.


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## SimulatedZero (Aug 30, 2014)

Depends on where you look and what your minimum requirements are. 

I found a cheap Coast light on amazon that runs off of a single AAA cell and puts out approx 50 lumens. Small, pure flood, tailstands, and has a clip. Sounds like a good gear light. Either that or a small Streamlight will do the same.

I've found that you find a lot the simple but just works kinda stuff is still floating around in the non flashaholic lights you find in big box stores. Maglite, Streamlight, Coast, etc...


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## fyrstormer (Aug 31, 2014)

Nothing is stopping you from using only a single mode of a multi-mode light. I bet there are buttons on your microwave that you never use, but do you complain about them being there? Probably not.

Things can still be useful to you even if they contain features you personally don't want. They wouldn't cost less to make without those features, because they would appeal to a smaller demographic and the per-unit cost would go up.


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## jorn (Aug 31, 2014)

If my microwave only had one button, but a million features to scroll trough, I would complain about it.
I agree with leon2245. Seems like many companys try too hard to make the ultimate tool. The one that does it all. But they usually end up with something like a multitool. Multitools are great, dont get me wrong, they have their place. But i dont see a mechanic grab the multitool every time they need a phillips screwdriver or a plier. A dedicated plier or screwdriver just works better with less hassle.


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## reppans (Aug 31, 2014)

Lego a Quark Tactical UI head to the battery tube of your choice, and program it to the single output of your choice - you can select a floody XML, in between XPG, or throw Turbo head/beam profile.


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## yogiboobooranger (Aug 31, 2014)

Somebody mentioned Surefire. I second that suggestion. They make many lights that meet your requirements, although quite expensive. Check them out. Also, Wally World has many flashlight options for the hunter/sportsman.


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## joshjp (Aug 31, 2014)

Try the Crelant PT30 or the PT40.


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## ElectronGuru (Aug 31, 2014)

MrNaz said:


> Ideally, I'd like a small 18650 like the one pictured that uses a high efficiency, modern emitter to put out around ~50-100lm that lasts forever on a charge and that I can keep in the glove box for changing tyres and finding that dollar coin under the seat. I don't want to have to pay $150 for such basics.



Well there's the answer (to the question, not the problem). Efficiency doesn't sell. It would be like making a v8 sports car, then turning off 4 of the cylinders. Half the customers will want the dead half of the engine turned back on and the other half will be fine as is, but want to pay half as much. 

Someone making an XPL/18650 can go through all the same steps and expenses to make your dream light, then add 1% more work to make it 5x as bright and 2x as valuable. You're asking for a low value product in a high value world.


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## leon2245 (Aug 31, 2014)

Regarding ui's that can effectively be used as a single mode, other examples include clickies with tighten/loosen head for hi/lo like ba10, streamlight's ten-tap programmables where you can lock it in to high-only, fenix' new motion control interface in the e20 2014 edition, where you can select any mode, then tighten the head while it's there and it will effectively be a single mode in that level only.

Kind of a faux pas to mention around here, but I've been impressed with the performance of maglite's mini/pro lineup too, available in single modes.


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## SimulatedZero (Aug 31, 2014)

+1 to Fenix as well. 

That's why I love the LD series with the side switch. I can set the mode and then use it as a 1 mode light essentially. 

It's funny though that a lot of the mass market companies like Maglite and Streamlight don't necessarily push for the highest output when the niche companies do. It would be interesting to see if the high end lights have been gaining more share of the market over the aforementioned brands with this push for max output. 

I've often thought about starting a thread about why we don't see more lights designed around the prinicple of being tough, efficient, effective, and user friendly more than having high output. But, then I remember I'm a minority even among flashaholics.


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## idleprocess (Aug 31, 2014)

I don't think the multi-tool analogy is very good - a multitool can do many things and few of them particularly well; a multimode flashlight performs its task with an efficiency hit so small as to be incalculable for most of the market. Mechanical multitools (Letherman, Gerber) are indeed inferior to purpose-built tools - they lack the ergonomics, precision, and often ability to apply adequate force to the task at hand. However, in most scenarios the efficiency cost of using a multi-mode flashlight is negligible vs an otherwise equivalent dedicated unit is negligible - you select another mode at the cost of a second or two. While I can envision scenarios where this could be a significant problem, these seem to be a _very_ small minority.



ElectronGuru said:


> Someone making an XPL/18650 can go through all the same steps and expenses to make your dream light, then add 1% more work to make it 5x as bright and 2x as valuable. You're asking for a low value product in a high value world.


With the rapid evolution of driver electronics, odds are that the additional R&D burden to implement a multimode controller isn't even an added 1% - it was already rolled into the cost of the next iteration and was going to be incurred regardless since the components for the new controller were probably cheaper than the old one (which may no longer be available). As has been oft stated, this adds utility to the device by allowing it to balance output power and runtime over a range of useful possibilities for the device.


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## norcmcp (Aug 31, 2014)

ElectronGuru said:


> It would be like making a v8 sports car, then turning off 4 of the cylinders.



That's what Chevy is doing with the 2015 Corvette. It turns off half of the cylinders when the computer thinks power isn't required.


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## leon2245 (Aug 31, 2014)

For me it's not a matter of life or death or saving that extra fraction of a second it takes, it's just every time I've found it enough of an annoyance at some point that I stick with single modes. Guess even this is another one of those controversial preferences, not wanting those few fans of it that still exist to want it.


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## Toolboxkid (Aug 31, 2014)

I have really come to love my single mode streamlight microstream. For about $17 off the bay, and does just fine with 10440 cells. Crazy bright and great throw.




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## jorn (Aug 31, 2014)

The multitool analogy was not mentioned because of efficiency loss at all. I was thinking more of user friendly operation with less hassle. And some other issues.

Too many multimode light uses pwm, witch i hate. And now everyone starts to use eletronic switches that can drain your lights when its in your drawer.. and displays that shows how mutch battery is drained since last time you used it.. Complicated ui's because we need all the modes in the world in one light etc. I usually dont need all this stuff. All the extra features makes it less simple. And in my mind, more prone to failure... and harder to fix out in the field. If my zebralight switch fails, I wont be able to fix it or bypass the switch on the spot. If the switch on the simple malkoff md-2 fails. Just toss some alufoil or something in the bottom of the tube and it will bypass the switch and work as a twisty. If i would dare borrow my lf2xt to a friend, well i had to use atleast 50 min to explain how the ui works. Or he will think he has broken it when he presses the one switch it got one time too many, and it goes into battery morse etc. 
If you always use 40 lumens for walking, then clicking trough the rest of the modes is a hassle. I have never found the use for a moonmode on a dedicated thrower/searhlight. Moonmode on a searchlight is kind of like a multitool. It wont work *that* well because all the spill is gone, hotspot is still too bright, and it wont preserve your nightvision. If you never use certian modes, and hate scrolling past modes you wont use, it's in some ways "inferior" to a light that is spot on with one click. 
We never messure user friendlyness in the latest and greatest lights. Mostly lumens, lux and runtime. Im not hating the "multitools", but if everyone stopped making phillips screwdrivers, youre more or less stuck with spending time searcing for the phillips in the multitool.


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## idleprocess (Aug 31, 2014)

jorn said:


> Too many multimode light uses pwm, witch i hate.


If you're sensitive to flicker, this is understandable. I only notice myself it if I pan the light rapidly in front of me.



> And now everyone starts to use eletronic switches that can drain your lights when its in your drawer..


One can usually lock out the circuit to prevent this with a twist or two of the tailcap/head/etc.



> and displays that shows how mutch battery is drained since last time you used it.. Complicated ui's because we need all the modes in the world in one light etc. I usually dont need all this stuff. All the extra features makes it less simple.


True, however the market is not apparently not seeking simplicity any more.

I mist be missing out on something when people complain about complex UI's. I've never been interested in these near-infinitely variable programmable designs, which seemingly started with the Arc4 (with its triple- and quad-clicks), but once had a light that did implement a complex UI via a single electronic switch. It wasn't difficult to figure out, but always felt like it had just _one_ more conceptual moving part than needed... so I disposed of it.



> And in my mind, more prone to failure... and harder to fix out in the field. If my zebralight switch fails, I wont be able to fix it or bypass the switch on the spot. If the switch on the simple malkoff md-2 fails. Just toss some alufoil or something in the bottom of the tube and it will bypass the switch and work as a twisty.


I confess that I do not consider repair ability when making flashlight purchases nor field-expedient fixes. I have also not had any LED flashlight failures that were anything less than the break-out-the-soldering-iron near-catastrophic variety.

A well-implemented electronic switch will last longer than a mechanical full-shutoff switch, since it has almost zero current moving across it. In reality, I gather that implementation is all over the map, and some electronic switch designs are seeing a number of premature failures ... but the actual rates are not really known.



> If you always use 40 lumens for walking, then clicking trough the rest of the modes is a hassle. I have never found the use for a moonmode on a dedicated thrower/searhlight. Moonmode on a searchlight is kind of like a multitool. It wont work *that* well because all the spill is gone, hotspot is still too bright, and it wont preserve your nightvision. If you never use certian modes, and hate scrolling past modes you wont use, it's in some ways "inferior" to a light that is spot on with one click.


No, you can't make a large, dedicated thrower behave as usefully as a small, low-output floodlight ... but it's not at all expensive to implement and adds utility that some of the market can use occasionally. You similarly can't make a small EDC floodlight into an awesome thrower just by hopping the output up to a level it can't sustain for long, but that occasionally-used turbo mode can sure come in handy sometimes.

How many modes do you find yourself having to routinely _scroll_ past? Most of the lights I'm familiar with have 3-5 modes and either start in the last mode used (oftentimes using some non-volatile memory) or have a predictable sequence. 



> We never messure user friendlyness in the latest and greatest lights. Mostly lumens, lux and runtime. Im not hating the "multitools", but if everyone stopped making phillips screwdrivers, youre more or less stuck with spending time searcing for the phillips in the multitool.


If a particular flashlight mode is like a philips screwdriver to you, I'm curious what you're using it for.


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## jorn (Aug 31, 2014)

I know about the tailcap lockout. But then you got a "twistyclicky". Harder to use than both the clicky and twisty combined. Not a step in the right direction if you want simple to use. And titanium lights got no lockout by unscrewing the tailcap. Just saw one with a eletric sideswitch appear on the marked. I guess more will follow.
Take my zebra h51fc as a good example. It's a "twistyclicky". And i always run it in med 1. Thats the goldielock zone for me when im outdoors fishing. And im outdoors on mouaintan lakes way way more than the average sport fisher. So mutch that when pepole ask where i have hidden lately i usually reply that if they want to find me, they have to go up mouinans and start looking under rocks by the lakes  I use med 1 when walking, wading, fishing, food preparation, setting up tents, etc. So if it only had med 1 it would have been simpler to use for me. Just like a phillips screwdriver is simpler to use compared with a multitool. If you know exatcly what tool you need, it's simple to grab the right tool for the task.


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## fyrstormer (Sep 1, 2014)

norcmcp said:


> That's what Chevy is doing with the 2015 Corvette. It turns off half of the cylinders when the computer thinks power isn't required.


Computers control every aspect of an engine's operation nowadays. The computer doesn't *think* not all 8 cylinders are needed most of the time, it *knows* not all 8 cylinders are needed most of the time.

Every computer is a team of experts doing your bidding, millions of times faster than you can do it yourself. Don't crap on the efforts of those experts.


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## fyrstormer (Sep 1, 2014)

Anyway, if you want a light with the convenience of a single-mode and the flexibility of a multi-mode, get a Jetbeam RRT-0. The control ring stays in the exact position you leave it in, unlike the Sunwayman V1R, so you can just leave it on high-mode and hit the tailswitch when you need light. That's what I do with mine. On the rare occasion I need to be careful with how much light I blast at the intended target, I can turn it down before I even turn the light on -- no electronic mode-switching light can claim that.


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## scout24 (Sep 1, 2014)

Tried to find it, but cant... Please explain to me where our one post just registered member who thought he/she was adding something to the discussion "crapped" on anything? Way to roll out the welcome mat.


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## lightfooted (Sep 1, 2014)

MrNaz, I suggest that you stop buying flashlights that use the interruption of power to change modes as a start. I own three multi-mode lights that are for me, single-modes. One of them uses a side button to change modes and the other two are twisty-head types. I simply leave them set to my preferred mode for use. 

On the subject however, I personally do not want anymore single-mode lights. I own three Surefires and while I am happy I was able to upgrade them all to modern LED emitters, I rarely carry them anymore because I find it more useful to have a light that I can use to search under a desk for things without blinding me and warn oncoming traffic of a problem as well as light up the dark parking lot 100 yards away.


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## Bob Damon (Sep 1, 2014)

As moon shadow said above, a Solarforce L2 and a single mode dropin. Check out the Sporttac dropins from Eagletac. 
I have a Solarforce L2T with a Single mode XM-L dropin, a nice light for night shooting. 
Dropins are inexpensive, as are solarforce hosts, you can build a host and dropin for less than $30.


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## MrNaz (Sep 1, 2014)

leon2245 said:


> For me it's not a matter of life or death or saving that extra fraction of a second it takes, it's just every time I've found it enough of an annoyance at some point that I stick with single modes. Guess even this is another one of those controversial preferences, not wanting those few fans of it that still exist to want it.



This is basically the crux of what I was saying. I do not think that multimode lights do not have a place, they can eb very good for emergency lights where you may need short bursts of bright light but at other times you'll need to preserve precious power.

The issue is that in many (most?) ordinary use cases you need a given brightness.
- Hiking lights need to be moderately bright and floody to light up a track. An 18650 sizedlight would be good for this, and you could get nice battery life for the necessary brightness.
- Around camp sites you need a short range floody light that is as small as possible. An AA or CR123A light would be good for this.
- A hunting light, especially a rifle mout one, needs to be long throw max brightness, but will only be on for short periods to facilitate aim. You won't be pointing your gun around to light the path, so battery lif is not so important. A 14500 with aspheric for max throw would be good for this. I use a Sipik SK68 at the moment with the zoom epoxied at max throw. This gives me a view through the scope as though it's daytime out to 150m.

These different uses have different mixes of size, brightness, beam profile and battery life. I feel that trying to cover themall by simply having multi brightness modes does injustice to them all. Sure, some scenarios, like keeping a light in your glovebox, do call for multimodes. Finding that $1 under the seat and changing a tyre are two uses that need dramatically different brightnesses.



Toolboxkid said:


> I have really come to love my single mode streamlight microstream. For about $17 off the bay, and does just fine with 10440 cells. Crazy bright and great throw.



Link? I can't find any Jetbeam light for under $40.



lightfooted said:


> MrNaz, I suggest that you stop buying flashlights that use the interruption of power to change modes as a start. I own three multi-mode lights that are for me, single-modes. One of them uses a side button to change modes and the other two are twisty-head types. I simply leave them set to my preferred mode for use.



Yea I've already got an ArmyTek Predator Pro 2. It's great. $120? I feel nervous just using it out in places where it could get dropped, scratched or dinged. Perhaps I just need to lighten up about keeping my gear in good condition?



lightfooted said:


> On the subject however, I personally do not want anymore single-mode lights. I own three Surefires and while I am happy I was able to upgrade them all to modern LED emitters, I rarely carry them anymore because I find it more useful to have a light that I can use to search under a desk for things without blinding me and warn oncoming traffic of a problem as well as light up the dark parking lot 100 yards away.



Once again, I do acknowledge that multimode lights are useful, especially for lights that are kept for general use such as in a glovebox or a desk drawer. Many other uses, however, call for just a single mode, as I have explained above.

In all this vigorous discussion, I think the point I was trying to make has been lost.

A rugged, simple, single mode flashlight with decent regulation should cost under $10. I want to be able to buy 10 of them and use them without caring if they get lost, dinged, wet, and be able to give them to friends without having to diligently track their use, care and return of it. I want to be able to go on a hunting trip and give them out to buddies who forgot theirs and be able to say "keep it" and the end of the trip when they tell me they like it.

I can't do this if I'm using my $120 Predator Pro. I'm bemoaning the high price you have to pay to get simplicity, while at the low end of the price range you end up with complex, poorly designed and inconsistently implemented complexity.

Also, am I the only one who thinks it's dumb to buy a $120 light with complex programmable circuitry so I can program it to pretend it doesn't have any complex programmable circuitry?


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## fyrstormer (Sep 1, 2014)

scout24 said:


> Tried to find it, but cant... Please explain to me where our one post just registered member who thought he/she was adding something to the discussion "crapped" on anything? Way to roll out the welcome mat.


Nobody crapped on anything. I was merely warning against doing so. It seemed like the conversation was about to take a turn in the direction of "engineered complexity in anything is bad".

Multi-mode lights aren't inherently difficult to use, it's just that most flashlight manufacturers go with the cheapest possible UI to make those modes accessible -- it's because they're *poorly engineered* that their extra complexity makes them difficult to use. A well-engineered multi-mode light is just as easy to use as a single-mode light, *and* it's more flexible. Insert yet another plug for the RRT-0 here; after 3.5 years of continuous EDC, it's still my favorite tasklight ever.


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## fyrstormer (Sep 1, 2014)

MrNaz said:


> A rugged, simple, single mode flashlight with decent regulation should cost under $10. I want to be able to buy 10 of them and use them without caring if they get lost, dinged, wet, and be able to give them to friends without having to diligently track their use, care and return of it. I want to be able to go on a hunting trip and give them out to buddies who forgot theirs and be able to say "keep it" and the end of the trip when they tell me they like it.
> 
> I can't do this if I'm using my $120 Predator Pro. I'm bemoaning the high price you have to pay to get simplicity, while at the low end of the price range you end up with complex, poorly designed and inconsistently implemented complexity.


The problem is that your perception of cost is skewed. There is no way to make a robust single-mode light with good regulation for under ten dollars. Even from wholesale companies which sell parts in batches of a hundred, the electronics to build a single-mode constant-current LED driver cost more than ten dollars. And then someone has to build the driver, and someone else has to machine the housing, and someone else has to put it all together with a reflector and an LED -- and an LED worth using will probably cost five-to-ten dollars just by itself. And after all that is done, someone has to set up a website where you can buy it. Unfortunately, since the market for single-mode lights is much smaller than the market for multi-mode lights, the fixed costs of running a website, employing workers, and renting/owning an assembly building are not going to be spread out over a very large number of sales, so you'll end up paying more for that single-mode light than you would for a multi-mode light.

In short, even if you built one for yourself and didn't charge yourself for the time it took you to build and machine the various parts, you still couldn't do it for ten dollars. I can't even buy dinner for two at McDonalds for less than ten dollars nowadays. A dollar simply is not worth that much anymore.


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## leon2245 (Sep 1, 2014)

^yes thank you mr. Naz. And even though we clearly agree, I think it's just best to stick to discussing our preferences in terms of what works for us, & avoid deeming those choices that are not for us being "dumb", which reflects a similar attitude but from the opposing side, those who are militant about not wanting us to want single modes. Neither is productive imo. 

regarding price, it's kind of anomaly inherent to economies of scale- because we are in the extreme minority in our preference for single modes, you just won't see as many high quality offerings compared to the duals & muti's, made on a much larger scale lately, and with more competition, so you tend to get more for less (like when high end Panasonic plasmas where actually CHEAPER in 50" panels vs. 42" in the identical model that was more expensive!). Otoh you also don't often get REAL high quality mutimodes either for under your target of $10 anyway, so your expectations might be a little high for the current state of market realities, as much as we think what should be. 

Ultimately all we can do is vote with our wallets. There are still real high quality single modes out there, us made malkoff edc's, surefire's, mid range streamlights, low end mag lights & some Chinese manufactured options, all of whose quality might surprise you. 

When it comes to getting past paying for programmable multimodes that you lock into one mode, I see it as paying for the programming & ability to choose which level you want. Hey I wish they were cheaper too, generally, but frankly, with as far as technology has come, and compared to what I was getting 10 years ago, even with top shelf $200 lights, I have since come full circle & am amazed by the quality of light I can get now for $12, with my Ui & output of choice. 

Keep looking with an open mind, exchanging ideas & suggestions here, and keep trying/flipping on the cpf marketplace. You might find an unexpected solution works, and meanwhile the search is part of the fun.


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## thedoc007 (Sep 1, 2014)

I understand your desire for single mode lights...but as others have pointed out, they haven't disappeared. Go to FastTech, and you'll find a number of them. They are usually fairly cheap, also...

Just realize that many people do not share your opinion. I generally do prefer my lights to have multiple modes...when 200 lumens was at bright as it got, one mode might have been OK. But as things stand now, when you can get 1000 lumens out of a single AAA-size light, or 2500 lumens from a P60 host, multiple modes are pretty important. Unless you always use a light under the exact same conditions, being able to adjust output is very useful.

I for one am glad there are so many choices...people who bemoan the lack of a particular feature often just haven't found the right light yet. Given that there are thousands of light available from hundreds of different companies, it is likely that just about every feature you like is out there somewhere.


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## idleprocess (Sep 2, 2014)

leon2245 said:


> regarding price, it's kind of anomaly inherent to economies of scale- *because we are in the extreme minority in our preference for single modes, you just won't see as many high quality offerings compared to the duals & muti's, made on a much larger scale lately*, and with more competition, so you tend to get more for less (like when high end Panasonic plasmas where actually CHEAPER in 50" panels vs. 42" in the identical model that was more expensive!). Otoh you also don't often get REAL high quality mutimodes either for under your target of $10 anyway, so your expectations might be a little high for the current state of market realities, as much as we think what should be.


This.

Sometimes the market swings the way you want it to and sometimes it goes different ways and you're left without the exact product you desire. What is the cost of one more SKU, anyway _(apparently, quite a bit in many instances)_?

Witness residential lighting products - awash with 2700K _(hello, incandescent yellow)_, some 5000K _(stark office space white)_, the rare 3000K offering _(a warm neutral of sorts)_, and pretty much nothing else. I'd like something in the neighborhood of 3500K, but apparently not enough other people do, so I'm SOL. While this may aggravate me, I also understand that market preferences simply aren't in my favor at the moment.

Got to swing with the punches / preferences of larger demographics, pay a premium for something more niche that suits your tastes, or roll your own if it means that much to you.


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## MrNaz (Sep 2, 2014)

Wow this is easily the most controversial thread I've ever started.Just to clarify once again, I have no problem with the *existence *of multimode lights. In fact, the glovebox light I have is a multimode because I use it for a range of things requiring a range of brightnesses. Just to give you all a bit of background to my little gripe, I'll tell the story that was the reason I started this thread in the first place.

I am a hunter and I go out at night from time to time to take small game. The best scope mount light I own is a $15 Skyray generic. It throws an excellent beam, on par with my $120 Predator Pro. It's single mode, runs ages on an 18650 and is cheap enough that I can mount one to my gun, hold one in my hand and keep a spare in my pack for if a friend needs one or if I break one. I recently found that Skyray no longer makes these (actually, they do, but they must have changed factories or something because the new ones have slightly thicker bezel walls, making them more durable, but they have an _awful _beam pattern, totally useless). After much searching, I found nothing really worthy to replace it with for anything resembling that price, and eventually got the Predator Pro 2 which I programmed into single mode. I was really surprised that an obsolete $15 model had no current equivalent that was less than 8x the price.

Once again, It is not the case that I have something against multi mode lights. I own and love a multimode light. But I am surprised that there isn't more demand for lights that serve in places where single mode is more appropriate.


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## ElectronGuru (Sep 2, 2014)

An example of your dilemma is manual gearboxes. In parts of the EU, they are more popular than here because automatics require a separate drivers test / license. Here, there is no such legal structure to keep them relevant. The only reason to buy a stick is because you like a stick. And manuals have specific advantages, just like your hunting examples. 

But just as with hunting, not enough people care about those advantages to accept the disadvantages. So auto gearboxes rule the marketplace. And because of that, maybe 5% of cars made have a stick and because of that, they cost more to make in mass, despite being simpler in design individually. If each was made by hand, simple is always cheaper. But with economies of scale, uniformity is everything.

It's now literally cheaper to make only multi mode lights and to turn off the extra modes than to make a dedicated single mode from scratch. So either 1) the company making the medium priced light has to turn off those modes during assembly and risk being unable to sell them or 2) you have to spring for a light pricey enough to have an interface where you can do it yourself. Neither scenario invites a $10 price point. 

It's just easier to sell more units when the packaging and web site can have extra modes and the extra feature dots that go with them.


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## jorn (Sep 2, 2014)

ElectronGuru said:


> An example of your dilemma is manual gearboxes. In parts of the EU, they are more popular than here because automatics require a separate drivers test / license.


Not quite a separate driving test. Around here 99% drive with manual. If someone insists of doing all their training and taking the driving licence with a automatic. Their license allow them to drive automatic only. If you take your licence in a car with manual, your licence allow you to drive both manual and automatic. Cars are really expensive, and manual is cheaper than a automatic.

A example on silly expensive is the dodge viper. Here, a dogde viper costs around 240000$ in taxes alone (the price of the car itself is not included). So pepole save where they can when picking accesories for their car  High horsepower is a big no no and gets taxed to death. Sorry about the ot. But taxes can be a "fun fact" when they become silly high


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## AnAppleSnail (Sep 2, 2014)

The analogy is more like a cheap radio. I live in a place where the only stations I want to hear are 91.5, 89.5, 94.7, and 107.7. With my cheap SONY radio, it's not bad to select any of those stations. I have a dial for tuning, a dial for volume, a switch for AM/FM, and a switch for on/off. We could 'tighten' the UI with an off/volume knob, and that's about all we could trim off and have it usable (Imgaine: Press-hold-click to tune 0.2MHz higher).

If you want more control over a flashlight, you need more inputs. Head loose/tight, mode control ring, etc. It sounds like you should get a Clicky-switched, Head-toggled mode light. Or be a curmudgeon and cut some solder traces on a ShiningBeam driver.


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## greenlight (Sep 2, 2014)

The gerber Firecracker and the Inova X1.v1 are two of my favorite single mode lights.


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## Danielsan (Sep 3, 2014)

I would also vote for the nitecore _MT21A_, its basically a single mode light if you so wish. That means when the head is tight its a single mode light and when its loose its a multi mode light. Similar concept has the 4sevens quark tactical and i think there is a Fenix LD25 with that head loose/tight concept as well. Those lights are all simple to understand, perfect for older ppl ! Im searching for a single mode as well for my mother. I gave her a zebralight for a trip and she could not use it, she constantly switched in the moonlight mode for example. Single mode lights are the solution for that.

And of course those lights mentioned above use AA batteries, not li/ion! would never give this to older ppl

The Gerber Firecracker has 18 lumens for 5 hours which is pretty poor, thats why i would take the MT21A, its cheap and brighter and still lasts long


Manual gearboxes are totally normal in Europe, its used by 99% of the ppl. We learn driving at cars with manual gearboxes. Many ppl are even afraid to use automatic cars cause they are so used to manual. An automatic gearbox is considered an old mens car. The driving pleasure is gone with automatic and most ppl will not switch to automatic unless they are really old. Automatic also means more gas waste


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## fyrstormer (Sep 4, 2014)

Without derailing the thread too much: Danielsan, the European public's concept of automatic transmission cars is very outdated, much like the American public's concept of diesel cars. Modern automatics get the same fuel economy or even better, because the engine computer can control every aspect of power generation, transfer, and output. They even know to downshift when the car is going down a long hill, and to stay in lower gears when the driver is twitchy on the accelerator because of heavy traffic.

MrNaz, if you haven't looked at Elzetta's flashlights yet, you should. They are built to withstand gun recoil and the anodizing is even better than Surefire's lights.


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## RobertMM (Sep 5, 2014)

greenlight said:


> The gerber Firecracker and the Inova X1.v1 are two of my favorite single mode lights.



Hey, I'd like to see an updated Firecracker, maybe 40-50 lumens and very efficient driver to get the most runtime out of the single AA.

I'd like to see the Surefire L4 too, but with a 100 lumen level, with the XPG2 or other efficient emitter, again for the longest runtime you can get from a pair of cr123.


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## MrNaz (Sep 7, 2014)

fyrstormer said:


> MrNaz, if you haven't looked at Elzetta's flashlights yet, you should. They are built to withstand gun recoil and the anodizing is even better than Surefire's lights.



Thank you to everyone who participated in this discussion, it's been very elightening (tee hee).

I've looked at all the suggested lights, and a BIG thanks to fyrstormer for the suggestion of Elzetta, I hadn't seen that brand before and man they look slick. However, I've found what I think is my current favourite setup for now.

Sipik SK68. Focus at max throw and stick the head in place with a liberal application of epoxy. Sure, these lights get under an hour of on time with a decent 14500, however it only gets a total of maybe 10 - 15 minutes while out on a hunt. Flick on, sight through the scope, shoot (if able), flick off. 30 - 60 seconds each time. The bulk of the searching will get done with my Predator Pro 2.5, which gives me a truly flat run time for well over an hour with a good 18650. Carry a spare 18650 or two and I'm good for a full night of prowling for small game. I also have a multimode flooded in the backpack for striking camp, some generic 18650 XML.

So:
- Sipik SK68 for weaponlight. Good single mode light with great throw, lights up the scope view like day right out to 100+ meters. $6.
- Predator Pro as the handlight. Good, tough, single mode light with excellent runtime and durability, good throw for spotting game out to shooting distance. $120.
- Some brandless multimode flooder in the backpack for campsite. $10

My needs are covered. I would have liked to have spent less on the hand light, but meh. It's now a sunk cost, and it's not like I don't like the light. It's awesome. It feels like I could use it to knock out a buffalo. Who needs a rifle eh? Well, maybe that's a bit too optimistic.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Sep 11, 2014)

Simple answer is that single-mode lights simply do not sell as well as multimode lights. It's for the same reason that warm and high CRI emitters are ignored by most manufactures: bigger number on the box means more sales.

However, the solution to your problem is also relatively simple: Buy a programmable multimode light and program it for a single mode. Alternatively, splash out a premium for a dedicated single-mode flashlight.


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## Richwouldnt (Sep 18, 2014)

fyrstormer said:


> Anyway, if you want a light with the convenience of a single-mode and the flexibility of a multi-mode, get a Jetbeam RRT-0. The control ring stays in the exact position you leave it in, unlike the Sunwayman V1R, so you can just leave it on high-mode and hit the tailswitch when you need light. That's what I do with mine. On the rare occasion I need to be careful with how much light I blast at the intended target, I can turn it down before I even turn the light on -- no electronic mode-switching light can claim that.



That also applies to several lights from Nitecore and Sunwayman with continuously variable magnetic ring interfaces. The Sunwayman V11R has no blinkies or other modes, just a continuously variable output from moonlight to maximum. Preset the ring to your preferred output and then just use the tail switch to turn it on/off.


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## Danielsan (Sep 18, 2014)

the best light ever that can deal as a single mode light as well must be the thrunite Lynx. Its similar to those magnetic ring lights but a bit different. Its tailcap has i think 4 positions and each of them can be programmed with your own brightness level by constantly pressing the button and the light will dimm from low to high, let loose and your brightness is saved in that position of the tailcap. The downside is that the light is not available for 40 dollars.


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## spearcrow (Sep 18, 2014)

I am pretty small time compared to most on here, but all of my users are multi mode except for one. I have a new streamlight vantage that I just put on my fire helmet. I probably should have searched around here before I purchased one, but I was sure not finding many lighting options to mount on my helmet. Still, the simpleness of the turn on turn off switch is about all that I could manage with my gloves on.


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## mcnair55 (Sep 19, 2014)

A single mode light belongs to Noah,s Ark and in the year 2014 is a complete waste of money as can be seen by the variety of product in the market place.


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## Vortus (Sep 19, 2014)

They are out there. Just have to look. Malkoff, Surefire, Gerber, Maglite and single mode custom p60 dropins among others. Not to mention the piles of them sold at the end of check out counters and harbor freight. 

If happy with the sipiks, just buy a bunch of them, set up how you want and your good to go. When it dies, toss it and grab another.


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## RWT1405 (Sep 19, 2014)

mcnair, that's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. However, that does not make it correct for everyone, and certainly NOT me! I don't use my lights as a "play toy", as so many here do. I use mine as a Firefighter, Paramedic, and a Tactical Medic, also as a CCW holder. So thank you, but NO thank you, for your multi-mode lights, in many situations, and uses I have, for MY lights, a single mode is BEST and the ONLY lights I will use.


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## mcnair55 (Sep 20, 2014)

RWT1405 said:


> mcnair, that's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. However, that does not make it correct for everyone, and certainly NOT me! I don't use my lights as a "play toy", as so many here do. I use mine as a Firefighter, Paramedic, and a Tactical Medic, also as a CCW holder. So thank you, but NO thank you, for your multi-mode lights, in many situations, and uses I have, for MY lights, a single mode is BEST and the ONLY lights I will use.



That is the whole point of having a healthy forum,different opinions.In my day job a single mode light is of no use to me at all and i generally need a reasonable medium and slightly better high.What would suit me best is the use of reactive lighting technology as used by Petzl in there headlamps.One day soon with luck one of the better makers will make a decent torch with features to suit all probably controlled by are computers or more than likely a mobile app.For your work situation you could dial in your best usable single mode and for myself the best twin modes.The 007 film wannabes can still play with there strobe modes


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## RobertMM (Sep 21, 2014)

I happen to be fond of single mode lights with low or moderate output, like the SF G2L at 120 lumens or the even lower output Streamlight ProPolymer 2xAA at 25 lumens, even if I have lots of multimode lights.


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## GatorMedic (Sep 21, 2014)

RWT1405 said:


> mcnair, that's your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it. However, that does not make it correct for everyone, and certainly NOT me! I don't use my lights as a "play toy", as so many here do. I use mine as a Firefighter, Paramedic, and a Tactical Medic, also as a CCW holder. So thank you, but NO thank you, for your multi-mode lights, in many situations, and uses I have, for MY lights, a single mode is BEST and the ONLY lights I will use.



I also use my lights as a firefighter, paramedic, tactical medic (for the classes as I just got certified), and CCW holder. For those uses I prefer a multi-mode light. Outside of the light attached to helmet or bunker gear, a single mode light is of no use to me in these tasks. For example, typical Paramedic uses include very low light to check pupils, regular low light to write report, medium light to see around dark rooms or check injuries, somewhat high light for MVCs in dark ditches, very high light to search for patients in fields, strobe to get someone on scene's attention. I could carry six different single mode lights for this task or just one. I choose one.

As to the original theme of this thread, simple supply/demand and economics. Like it or not, single mode flashlights are not in demand and there will be a small supply of them. Likewise that tends to drive up price.


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## mcnair55 (Sep 21, 2014)

GatorMedic said:


> I also use my lights as a firefighter, paramedic, tactical medic (for the classes as I just got certified), and CCW holder. For those uses I prefer a multi-mode light. Outside of the light attached to helmet or bunker gear, a single mode light is of no use to me in these tasks. For example, typical Paramedic uses include very low light to check pupils, regular low light to write report, medium light to see around dark rooms or check injuries, somewhat high light for MVCs in dark ditches, very high light to search for patients in fields, strobe to get someone on scene's attention. I could carry six different single mode lights for this task or just one. I choose one.
> 
> As to the original theme of this thread, simple supply/demand and economics. Like it or not, single mode flashlights are not in demand and there will be a small supply of them. Likewise that tends to drive up price.



Spot on Mr GatorMedic you hit the nail on the head.


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## gunlove (Sep 21, 2014)

They still have a place inside weaponlights. Generally you always wants a bright light and don't want to have to worry about it being on a weak setting. On a dedicated light, you want it bright! There is no real need to a not so bright light.


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## RWT1405 (Sep 23, 2014)

Exactly gunlove, when using a light with a weapon, or for CCW use, anything other then a single mode light is asking for trouble, in my opinion. The last thing you want to have happen is "think" you're going to get the "high" level, and then get "low". 
And as for "quick flashes", as you move, again nothing but a single mode is appropriate in this use. 
GatorMedic, you're correct that some things do require a lower mode and that's when a multi-mode light can be appropriate, but for the use you mention, and I have USED for the last 35 years (EMS and Fire) and 23 years (Tactical), it requires the use of at least 2 lights, one of which is a high output, SINGLE mode. I do believe you'll eventually figure that out.


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## GatorMedic (Sep 23, 2014)

RWT1405 said:


> Exactly gunlove, when using a light with a weapon, or for CCW use, anything other then a single mode light is asking for trouble, in my opinion. The last thing you want to have happen is "think" you're going to get the "high" level, and then get "low".
> And as for "quick flashes", as you move, again nothing but a single mode is appropriate in this use.
> GatorMedic, you're correct that some things do require a lower mode and that's when a multi-mode light can be appropriate, but for the use you mention, and I have USED for the last 35 years (EMS and Fire) and 23 years (Tactical), it requires the use of at least 2 lights, one of which is a high output, SINGLE mode. I do believe you'll eventually figure that out.



I took this thread to be about flashlights. I personally make a distinction between a "flashlight" and a "weapon light." My weapon lights are bright, single mode, and physically attached to my gun at all times. They serve no other purpose besides identifying potential targets. My flashlights on the other hand are more directed for general use, which lends itself to being used for a variety of tasks and multi-mode being better suited for this purpose.

To delve further into the CCW topic, I do not have a weapon light on my CCW handgun. I do have weapon lights on my home defense weapons. Why the difference? First and foremost, my CCW is designed for low profile, slimness, and low weight to be able to conceal it effectively. A light will add weight and size I don't want. Not to mention the availability of concealed holster options drops considerably depending on the light you are adding. Secondly, if I am deploying my weapon in a self defense scenario away from my home, I'm more than likely close to the individual and can see them. If I'm far away then I'm most likely to choose flight over fight. In my home, I'm most likely going to fight instead of flight, and there is a greater probability of me needing light in a man-made cave that is a house without its lights on. These situation differences are also why I choose different guns for CCW than I do for home defense.

Agree or disagree with my thoughts and carry decisions all you want. Apparently you have been in EMS/Fire longer than I've been alive, and almost been in tactical for longer than my lifespan as well. My life experiences on the job and in general (I have been attacked before as a civilian) have shaped what I carry and helped me decide what is best for me. Just as your experiences have shaped what is best to carry for you.

In the end, this discussion doesn't change the fact of single mode light options becoming less due to demand being less. Economics is what it is.


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## GatorMedic (Sep 23, 2014)

mcnair55 said:


> Spot on Mr GatorMedic you hit the nail on the head.



I'm not a guy, but thank you



gunlove said:


> They still have a place inside weaponlights. Generally you always wants a bright light and don't want to have to worry about it being on a weak setting. On a dedicated light, you want it bright! There is no real need to a not so bright light.



I agree. My post was referring to flashlights. I personally make a distinction between a hand held "flashlight" and a physically attached to a gun "weapon light."


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## rayman (Sep 24, 2014)

It depends on what you like. I think most manufactures offer multimode-flashlights so they reach more customers with a more universal light.

For my part, I like both I got my single mode Maglite with a XM-L but I also like my twisty 5-mode Olight.

I especially like my Thrunite Archer 1A which got 5 modes but kind of hidden as you don't access the modes with the button but by twisting the head back and forth. So you always gett the same mode when you turn the light on and off but it still has multiple modes for different tasks. And it's an easy light for borrowing as many none flashaholics don't know how to handle a multimode flashlight.

rayman


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## Timothybil (Sep 24, 2014)

Two Streamlight lights will meet your stated needs. To reach out and touch use the SuperTac: 160 lumens and rated at 346 m. Two CR123 but should work with a 17670 but I haven't tested it. For close-up work, the Microstream: 35 lumens and 38m, one AAA but several people report using a 10400 with no problem. Otherwise, for a close-up light look at the TerraLux Lightstar 80: Claims 80 lumens but more like 50 OTF, two AAA, higher CRI for better color rendition, penlight styling. The Microstream is available almost anywhere under US$20, the Lightstar 80 is about US$25, and the SuperTac is around US$70. All three are available at Battery Junction, among others including Amazon.


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## Barry0892 (Sep 24, 2014)

Because all want Lights with more modes for different purposes. And some flashlights have mode memory, you can always use the mode you need. Click to the next mode it easy, but still it's inconvenient to click forever to the previous mode. I like 2-3 modes, High-Low or strobe.


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## Vortus (Sep 25, 2014)

Regardless of all our opinions on which is better. The answer to the op's question is no, not extinct. In pretty much any price range and lumen rating they are available. Not as common, if after some specific feature a bit of searching needed, but still there. Quick google will pull up quite a few. Tbh, more than I expected. So I'd say not even on the endangered list yet. 

I like both and hope they continue making both.


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## parametrek (Oct 1, 2014)

There are plenty of single mode lights out there. Of the 958 in the database, 165 are single-mode. That is like one out of six. Big range of models, from a $6 Photon to a $350 Surefire Guardian. Not the most representative sampling but these are not difficult to find, all common name-brands.

There are also uses for low-lumen single mode lights. Three examples that come to mind are young children (simple UI, less battery charging), loaner lights (straightforward UI, more likely to be returned, less loss if they aren't), and during extended power outages. (Plenty of otherwise responsible people don't really understand battery rationing.)


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## Capolini (Oct 1, 2014)

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...00C2vn-Baby-Throw-King-122K-Lux-690-OTF-Lumen

He mods this w/ a single mode or 3 modes like mine. It has b/w 122/140Kcd! It is definitely more expensive than a Sipik.but it will throw at least 4 times further and will be way more beneficial on a rifle! :thumbsup:


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## buddiiee (Oct 2, 2014)

MrNaz said:


> Maybe I'm getting old. Maybe my brain is deteriorating. Maybe I'm turning into one of those cranky old "I hate change" types.
> 
> Why are there no decent single mode lights any more? All of my lights are either 3 or 5 modes when I only want one. What is wrong with my use case:
> 
> ...



Are we brothers? I've actually posted something very similar to this a few years back. I'm in the same camp man-multi mode lights are STUPID. Just like all these dam cell phones. Engineers with a solution looking for a problem. Trying to reinvent some stuff that worked PERFECT before they got their hands on it. And all that ends up happening is it gets more expensive, is less reliable, and harder to operate. It's a FLASHLIGHT. LIGHT comes out of the end. It's not a printer or a food processor. Leave it alone. Turn it on, the light comes out. Turn it off, the light goes away. That's all you need. Nothing more. Quit trying to make it into a space shuttle. If you want a space shuttle, buy a space shuttle. lol.


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## idleprocess (Oct 2, 2014)

buddiiee said:


> Are we brothers? I've actually posted something very similar to this a few years back. I'm in the same camp man-multi mode lights are STUPID. Just like all these dam cell phones. Engineers with a solution looking for a problem. Trying to reinvent some stuff that worked PERFECT before they got their hands on it. And all that ends up happening is it gets more expensive, is less reliable, and harder to operate. It's a FLASHLIGHT. LIGHT comes out of the end. It's not a printer or a food processor. Leave it alone. Turn it on, the light comes out. Turn it off, the light goes away. That's all you need. Nothing more. Quit trying to make it into a space shuttle. If you want a space shuttle, buy a space shuttle. lol.


Consensus from the rest of the thread: 
_The mass market by and large disagrees and has chosen broad utility over narrow single-task excellence, but will continue to serve your interests as a niche market segment._


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## redeye0315 (Oct 17, 2014)

I think 3 modes is perfect - Low, High, and Strobe


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## ForrestChump (Oct 25, 2014)

I would love if Surefire came out with a small, single CR123 light @ 25 lumens with a 100hr runtime. A slightly hefty mini-tank, twisty, single mode, 3 meters waterproof, with a lanyard hole that works while tail standing. ( double springs! ) 

It would be the ultimate EDC / keychain / disaster / camp light. I'd fork out $100, and I think a lot of others would as well.

Pretty Please Surefire?


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## onetrickpony (Oct 25, 2014)

MrNaz said:


> Great. So it really is the industry going bonkers and not just me losing my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm going to try this too. Thanks m4a1usr and the op.


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## FREI (Oct 26, 2014)

ForrestChump said:


> single CR123 light @ 25 lumens with a 100hr runtime.



Unfortunately that is technical unpossible. For 25 oft lumen you need round about 30 LED lumen (losses through reflector/ TIR/ lenses). A xp-l needs round about 0,15W to genarate this 30 lumen. A very good buckdriver has an efficiancy of circa 90%. From this it follows that you need round about 0,167W out of the battery. 0,167W * 100h = 16,7Wh. At this low currend a single CR123 stores only approximatly 4Wh. You can see, you dream light isn´t possible, sorry.


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## ForrestChump (Oct 26, 2014)

FREI said:


> Unfortunately that is technical unpossible. For 25 oft lumen you need round about 30 LED lumen (losses through reflector/ TIR/ lenses). A xp-l needs round about 0,15W to genarate this 30 lumen. A very good buckdriver has an efficiancy of circa 90%. From this it follows that you need round about 0,167W out of the battery. 0,167W * 100h = 16,7Wh. At this low currend a single CR123 stores only approximatly 4Wh. You can see, you dream light isn´t possible, sorry.



Yeah..... I was waiting for someone to burst my bubble. :mecry:

What single lumen output can produce 100hr runtime?......


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## FREI (Oct 27, 2014)

Lets take a look. 
16,7Wh / 4Wh = 4,175. 
25lm / 4,175 = 5,99lm
Approximatly 6lm for 100h from one CR123. +- a litle bit.


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## ForrestChump (Oct 28, 2014)

FREI said:


> Lets take a look.
> 16,7Wh / 4Wh = 4,175.
> 25lm / 4,175 = 5,99lm
> Approximatly 6lm for 100h from one CR123. +- a litle bit.



Thanks FREI,

That's waaay to much maff for me. 6 LM? Really, I would have a thought more. Anywhoo I"d still buy it even though it won't happen.


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## mbw_151 (Nov 6, 2014)

As my flashlight preferences have evolved during this LED revolution, I find I have three sets of applications; one set favors single mode lights and two sets favors multimode lights. Security and loaners are single mode, Z2/Malkoff and Minimags. When I need a light for security reasons, I don't want to think about how to use it, I just want on. It's the same with loaners, only the user isn't me and I don't want to have to train them. 

For every day use I want a multimode light, but I find I routinely use only three modes; moonlight, low and high. This is the kind of light I like to EDC. Rarely do I use medium and strobe. I have yet to use SOS mode, but out in the woods/mountains it's comforting to have. So in the car and in the great outdoors I carry a light with an EDC and a spare with a few more modes.

I hope single mode lights never go away, there are times it's exactly what I need.


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## Daekar (Nov 7, 2014)

Interesting thread, lots of people have things pretty well pegged, I think. Just like most people, it seems, I want a multimode light (UI and levels to person preference) for everything except the lights I use with a gun of any type. OP, when you were listing off your uses I kept thinking, "why would you want a different light for that? Just switch modes." I'm glad that single-mode lights still exist for those that want them and for pairing with a firearm.


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## Treeguy (Nov 8, 2014)

Daekar said:


> I
> I'm glad that single-mode lights still exist for those that want them and for pairing with a firearm.



...or for a dog. 

I have one single-mode light - 320 Lumen 6PX Defender - and it's my _*"Bug off!"*_ light for when I take my walks at night. When and if Cujo decides to block my path on a cold dark rural road, I don't want to have to fiddle with settings. I just want the thing to go on full blast.


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