# Cree Warm White



## allburger (Jun 21, 2008)

Well today I got my hands on a new Cree Warm White tint. I know that the output on these things isn't up to the standard of the new Q5's and R2's but I figured I'd install it in a P60 Drop in to try it out.









As you can see, I put it into my G2 to try it out.







And here is a shot of the beam pattern and the tint.







It's kind of a neat drop in that I have now. It's not something that I'm going to use alot but its kinda neat to have a cree led drop in with an incandescent tint to it.


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## underconstruction (Jun 21, 2008)

So is it better for color rendition? I am curious about these for outdoor use.


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## LEDninja (Jun 21, 2008)

*Re: Cree N4 Warm White*

Do you know the tint code?
Should be a number followed by a letter 5A, 7A, 8B etc..


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## allburger (Jun 21, 2008)

yeah yeah, actually its right here... Chromaticity: 8B Flux Bin: N4


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## LukeA (Jun 21, 2008)

I have some experience with P4 7As. I'd love to get my hands on some 6A Q2s.


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## allburger (Jun 21, 2008)

that would be a real nice color


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## StarHalo (Jun 21, 2008)

I like the more incandescent-tinted/warm LEDs for outdoors use; the standard Cree with its otherworldly-cold tone looks awesome indoors or in urban situations, but is completely out of place outdoors/in nature, where I prefer the Luxeon Rebels.

Got any Rebel emitters you can do comparative beamshots with? I'd love to see where the warm Cree stands vs the Luxeon..


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## xcel730 (Jun 21, 2008)

Very interesting.  Now I want one too!


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## allburger (Jun 22, 2008)

I would say that the craziest part of this light is the simple fact that not many people have ever seen an led flashlight that isnt blueish white. People see the color and they automatically think LED...Now you can have a light that is easy on the eyes and people won't believe that its an LED.


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## Lite_me (Jun 22, 2008)

Doesn't an LED binned this yellow (warm) have less output per input than a cooler (blueish) one?


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## LukeA (Jun 22, 2008)

Lite_me said:


> Doesn't an LED binned this yellow (warm) have less output per input than a cooler (blueish) one?



That's why they are in lower flux bins. Dies that in cool white would be Q4/Q5/R2 end up as P4/Q2 when they're pushing light through all that phosphor.


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## LukeA (Jun 22, 2008)

StarHalo said:


> I like the more incandescent-tinted/warm LEDs for outdoors use; the standard Cree with its otherworldly-cold tone looks awesome indoors or in urban situations, but is completely out of place outdoors/in nature, where I prefer the Luxeon Rebels.
> 
> Got any Rebel emitters you can do comparative beamshots with? I'd love to see where the warm Cree stands vs the Luxeon..



Funny you should ask.


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## EV_007 (Jun 22, 2008)

Wow, that does look nice. Any hint of green in the beam to the naked eye? Even the Rebel have a slightly greenish look to them, to me anyways.


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## LukeA (Jun 22, 2008)

EV_007 said:


> Wow, that does look nice. Any hint of green in the beam to the naked eye? Even the Rebel have a slightly greenish look to them, to me anyways.



Zero green in any of the four I have.


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## allburger (Jun 22, 2008)

This one has no green to it, it is yellowish with a hint of red maybe. Its so hard to gauge the tint of these things. The color is slightly warmer than a surefire p60 incan. 

I'd be interested to try their neutral white tint to see if that is more similar to an incandescent overdriven nice white.


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## allburger (Jun 22, 2008)

LukeA said:


> Zero green in any of the four I have.



What do you have your 4 warm whites in?


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## big beam (Jun 22, 2008)

DX has a warm white drop-in.I think it's a Q2 5a.Ordered one today!
DON


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## LukeA (Jun 22, 2008)

allburger said:


> What do you have your 4 warm whites in?



1 in a bathroom nightlight and the other three in a Mag mod.


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## ps000000 (Jun 23, 2008)

in real life i would prefer warm white color


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## allburger (Jun 23, 2008)

big beam said:


> DX has a warm white drop-in.I think it's a Q2 5a.Ordered one today!
> DON




Oh really, what is the link on that?


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## allburger (Jun 23, 2008)

I think i found it

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12501


This one falls in the neutral white category. It looks like it would be awesome. I have no idea what kind of ma its getting or the output but i'd say its worth a try. 

I can't believe people haven't gotten into the warmer tints sooner. Every time I see someone sell something in the marketplace, the first thing asked is "how is the tint." I am willing to take a Q2 bin if the color is awesome.

I think it would be really neat if more cpf'rs started getting on this wagon too!!!


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## LEDninja (Jun 23, 2008)

$12.73 for the drop in + $18.66 for a WF-502B = ~$32.
I just paid $85 for a Dereelight V4 Q2 5A. :sigh:


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## big beam (Jun 23, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> $12.73 for the drop in + $18.66 for a WF-502B = ~$32.
> I just paid $85 for a Dereelight V4 Q2 5A. :sigh:




Yeah but it's a dereelight! I have one it's nice(that's what I got the Q2 5A for).
DON


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## DragonFlame (Jun 23, 2008)

I'd love to see warmer tinted LEDs in headlamps ...
Even the brands that specialize in outdoor equipment fail to put some work into this aspect of their lighting gear. Strange if you ask me, considering how much better colour rendition gets with warmer tint LEDs.
These are great times for LED lighting, with increases in both luminous flux and efficiency ... those 4 chip Cree LEDs sound extremely interesting ...
Flux and efficiency have gotten to the point where warm tinted LEDs provide enough flux to begin thinking about the quality of the rendition rather than just the total lumens available.


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## Blindasabat (Jun 23, 2008)

I 1,000,000% agree with you both. I find many benefits to much warmer tints outdoors and indoors. Indoors it is soo much better for reading and outdoors I need better depth perception and color for mountain bike racing.


allburger said:


> ...I can't believe people haven't gotten into the warmer tints sooner. Every time I see someone sell something in the marketplace, the first thing asked is "how is the tint." I am willing to take a Q2 bin if the color is awesome.





DragonFlame said:


> I'd love to see warmer tinted LEDs in headlamps ...
> Even the brands that specialize in outdoor equipment fail to put some work into this aspect of their lighting gear. Strange if you ask me, considering how much better colour rendition gets with warmer tint LEDs. ... Flux and efficiency have gotten to the point where warm tinted LEDs provide enough flux to begin thinking about the quality of the rendition rather than just the total lumens available.


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## WadeF (Jun 23, 2008)

I got a 5A warm white Cree for my Dereelight. My flesh actually looks flesh colored now.


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## DragonFlame (Jun 24, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I got a 5A warm white Cree for my Dereelight. My flesh actually looks flesh colored now.



Sounds very Lovecraft-ian the way you say that .... :devil:

DF


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## big beam (Jun 26, 2008)

Sooo has anyone got one of these 5A tints from DX yet?
DON


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## big beam (Jul 3, 2008)

Soooo I got my Q2 5A drop-in today.I like the tint A LOT! makes all my other so called warm tints look green.Regulation is ok at higher voltages not so good on 1-18650.I can't wait 'till it gets dark out.
4 cell 240ma
3 cell 320ma
2 cell 490ma
1-18650 470ma
As you can see it's not driven very hard on 1 18650 but it's still pretty bright,brighter than I thought it would be!

I'll post more when it gets dark
DON
BTW ma readings taken at the tail cap with rayovac 123's


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## underconstruction (Jul 4, 2008)

Big Beam, I cant wait to get the results from your outside testing. I've been eyeing this drop in for some time now. Let us know!

Hopefully compared with a wc cree.


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## Fallingwater (Jul 4, 2008)

Ew.

One of the reasons I steer clear from incandescents is their yellow beam. I actually *like* the blue-white colour of LEDs. Warm whites aren't for me.


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## big beam (Jul 4, 2008)

I have a few more observations,

I have a mag 85 with eneloops and the tint of this drop in is whiter than the mag 85.This drop in is right in the middle between a well run hotwire and a WC tint led
In my lab(bathroom) doing a ceiling bounce test with 18650 it's about as bright as a P2D(Q2) on high.With 2xRCR123's it's about as bright as a P2D on turbo.
It's strange how the tint looks tanish compared to other leds but very white next to a fully charged mag 85.With a WC light the greys,blues and whites seem to jump out at you,lots of contrast.With the 5A tint there's not as much contrast with thoes colors,browns,greens and reds seem more natural.The main thing I noticed was that reflected light off of metals(my scrap pile)is greatly reduced.I think where the 5A would really shine is if your working with machinery that has metal in the white.indoors and outdoors the contrast is reduced and seems more natural.Needless to say I'm buying another one with a romisen RC-E4 for the 2 mode.I think it would be nice to have a 2 mode light with this emitter for less than 30 bucks.The 5A I have now is going in my cabelas 4 cell light for loooong runtime.
DON


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## lowatts (Jul 4, 2008)

I'd love to get a warm tint P7. That'll give the benefits of a warm tint and still provide good brightness. I'd put it in a single 18650 host with a small reflector for compact size, then maybe add a [email protected] host later for long run time.


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## EV_007 (Jul 4, 2008)

allburger said:


> I think i found it
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12501
> 
> ...



Is the link to the one shown in your pic? If not, where did you get it from? Do they fit correctly in the G2?


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## big beam (Jul 4, 2008)

DELETED I should read more carefully.


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## allburger (Jul 4, 2008)

EV_007 said:


> Is the link to the one shown in your pic? If not, where did you get it from? Do they fit correctly in the G2?



No, the one in the link is a cree neutral white, which I ordered and should be here in a week or so.

The one in the picture that I posted was a cree warm white emitter that I soldered into a drop in.


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## Jarl (Jul 4, 2008)

lowatts said:


> I'd love to get a warm tint P7. That'll give the benefits of a warm tint and still provide good brightness. I'd put it in a single 18650 host with a small reflector for compact size, then maybe add a [email protected] host later for long run time.



I have plans for a warm MC-E in a 2x18650 host for exactly those reasons


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## LEDninja (Jul 4, 2008)

Some beamshot comparisons of the Dereelight Q2 5A:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2530570&postcount=43
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2531107&postcount=1
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2538831&postcount=48


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## big beam (Jul 4, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> Some beamshot comparisons of the Dereelight Q2 5A:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2530570&postcount=43
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2531107&postcount=1
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2538831&postcount=48



Great beamshots! I guess a pic is worth a thousand words.I gotta get a DC and learn how to post pics.
DON


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## tsl (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: Cree N4 Warm White*



LEDninja said:


>


 
What bin would be closest to a SF incan?


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## yaesumofo (Jul 4, 2008)

Have you guys seen the Sundrop made by McGizmo?
It uses a Hi CRI 083 Nichia emitter which has an amazing ability to render colors correctly. The beam is so close to the color of sunlight (hence the nams sundrop) No It isn't powerful but is is unique and the overall results are amazing. Have a look at the McGizmo forum for more information.
Yaesumofo


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## enLIGHTenment (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: Cree N4 Warm White*



tsl said:


> What bin would be closest to a SF incan?



8C. Small incan bulbs have a very low color temperature.


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## KrisP (Jul 4, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Have you guys seen the Sundrop made by McGizmo?
> It uses a Hi CRI 083 Nichia emitter which has an amazing ability to render colors correctly. The beam is so close to the color of sunlight (hence the nams sundrop) No It isn't powerful but is is unique and the overall results are amazing. Have a look at the McGizmo forum for more information.
> Yaesumofo


Unfortunately, those emitters are too hard to source in small amounts, like 1-3... Especially for someone outside the US


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## J.D. (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Cree N4 Warm White*



tsl said:


> What bin would be closest to a SF incan?



I would say something between 3000k-3500k, and more red then green 7A should be closest


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## J.D. (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Cree N4 Warm White*



enLIGHTenment said:


> 8C. Small incan bulbs have a very low color temperature.


sorry did´t read your post.
with 3000-3500k i thoung about lumens factory claims...
look here


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## LEDninja (Jul 5, 2008)

I thought McGizmo was selling surplus emitters from Sundrop production.
*High CRI Nichias for D.I.Y.*
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/200252


KrisP said:


> Unfortunately, those emitters are too hard to source in small amounts, like 1-3... Especially for someone outside the US


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## tsl (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Cree N4 Warm White*



J.D. said:


> sorry did´t read your post.
> with 3000-3500k i thoung about lumens factory claims...
> look here


 
Thanks. Looks like around 3300.


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## WadeF (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Cree N4 Warm White*

I got a chance to try the Dereelight Q2 5A drop-in outside after it rained and it was foggy out. I looked great.


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## KrisP (Jul 6, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> I thought McGizmo was selling surplus emitters from Sundrop production.
> *High CRI Nichias for D.I.Y.*
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/200252


That's 10 emitters, not 1-3... And it's too hard for me to buy 10 and then try to resell the other 7-9 from Australia.


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## big beam (Jul 6, 2008)

I just ordered one from dereelight.It runs at 1 A.Just to compare.
DON


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## LEDninja (Aug 23, 2008)

I persuaded The_LED_Museum to do a spectrographic analysis on a DX Q2 5A module:






You can compare that with other LEDs & the sun & a 60W incan bulb in his Spectrographic analyses threads:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/200385
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177051
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/110795

EDIT
The_LED_Museum has his review of the drop-in in an Ultrafire 502B flashlight body up.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2602871&postcount=230


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## allburger (Feb 13, 2009)

Has anyone done anything with warm white MC-E's yet???

I have ordered the parts to build a 2C Mag MC-E Warm White. I'll post some pictures when everything gets here in the next 2-3 weeks


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## EngrPaul (Feb 13, 2009)

I stick with A and D tints. IMO, what's really beneficial in warmer LED tints is more red, not necessarily yellow.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 13, 2009)

allburger said:


> I would say that the craziest part of this light is the simple fact that not many people have ever seen an led flashlight that isnt blueish white. People see the color and they automatically think LED...Now you can have a light that is easy on the eyes and people won't believe that its an LED.


People said the same thing about 4300K HID headlights a couple of years ago. Nobody cares anymore; if anything, most people are glad to not have blinding blue light hit them in the face.

Blue light is dazzling, but it's pretty much useless for seeing. That being said, there's no substitute for brightness, and I've never seen a single-die LED brighter than a Q5 and the premium ones don't even have any bluish tint to them at all -- just white. Hell, one of mine has a slightly pinkish color.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 13, 2009)

EngrPaul said:


> I stick with A and D tints. IMO, what's really beneficial in warmer LED tints is more red, not necessarily yellow.


Depends on your personal preference, I suppose, but the human eye is biased towards yellow light. The visible spectrum of sunlight has more yellow than anything else, and you'll notice if you ever go up in a jet airplane and look at the sun, it's white -- because yellow-biased light is what your eyes percieve as white.

(the point of going up in a jet airplane is to minimize the effect of atmospheric diffraction on the apparent color of the direct sunlight; the sun looks yellow on the ground because all the blue light is diffracted away from it. Indirect sunlight is still "white" to our eyes even on the ground, because of the diffuse blue glow from the atmosphere.)


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## EngrPaul (Feb 13, 2009)

deusexaethera said:


> Depends on your personal preference, I suppose, but the human eye is biased towards yellow light. The visible spectrum of sunlight has more yellow than anything else, and you'll notice if you ever go up in a jet airplane and look at the sun, it's white -- because yellow-biased light is what your eyes percieve as white.


 
But the argument can go back the other way. Since your eyes are most sensitive to yellow light, you need more red to be discriminating. Especially since the red and green receptors in the retina overlap across the yellow region. Flood the eyes with lots of yellow light and not much of the other spectrum, and I would suppose the image would look just as flat as if it was blue or red alone. Perhaps?


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## deusexaethera (Feb 13, 2009)

EngrPaul said:


> But the argument can go back the other way. Since your eyes are most sensitive to yellow light, you need more red to be discriminating. Especially since the red and green receptors in the retina overlap across the yellow region. Flood the eyes with lots of yellow light and not much of the other spectrum, and I would suppose the image would look just as flat as if it was blue or red alone. Perhaps?


I'm not entirely clear on the physics behind the way primary light colors combine to produce secondaries, but I believe that red and green cones respond about the same to yellow light because it's red and green combined. Add in a little blue to round out the color contrast, and you've got white.

That being said, I do enjoy the warm yellow color of the Luxeon drop-ins I put in my father's Maglites. Sometimes I'll turn one on and just look at the color of the beam on the wall. It's funny how closely tied the eyes and the brain are, that the brain can have just as strong a preference for a certain color of light as for white or brown sugar.


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## EngrPaul (Feb 13, 2009)

I just upgraded a handful of lights.

According to camera exposure sampling and comparison to other lights before and after upgrade, here is my summary of what was "brighter"

Lumapower MRV Cool P4 > Neutral Q3
MUCH BRIGHTER

Lumapower D-Mini Cool P4 > Neutral Q3
MUCH BRIGHTER

Ultrafire WF-606A1 Cool P4 > Neutral Q3
MUCH BRIGHTER

Fenix LD01 Cool Q5 > Neutral Q3
SLIGHTLY DIMMER

Nitecore Extreme Cool Q5 > Neutral Q3
SLIGHTLY DIMMER

Raidfire Spear Cool Q5 > Neutral Q3
SLIGHTLY DIMMER

NiteCore D20 Cool Q5 > Neutral Q3
MUCH BRIGHTER

Fenix P1D Cool Q5 > Neutral Q3
SLIGHTLY DIMMER

Huntlight FT01 Cool P4 > Neutral Q2 Drop-in
MUCH BRIGHTER


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## allburger (Feb 14, 2009)

I have on order a 7D MC-E...I have a neutral white q2 5a and I think i still want warmer than that. I was able to locate a 7D tint so i went with it. I know that this is sacrificing lumens, but i think that this may have more usable lumens for outdoor work. 

What i am building is my version of the ultimate camping light.

Mag 2C - Easy enough to carry
MC-E 7A - Definetly bright enough
Multimodes - Low/Med/High up to 2.8A
Magring C Kit - Lanyard adapter and you can use 18650's
MOP Reflector - for nice flood


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