# Shot Show Shoot Out



## Mr Ted Bear (Feb 7, 2008)

Sunday evening a dozen for us hard core flashaholics ventured to the eastern outskirts of the city of Las Vegas to comapre some new lights. Berfore I begin, a few thanks to Polarion, StreamLight, Led Lenser (Coast) and AE Lighting; these vednors loan us lights to compare.

Besides known quantities like the X990, N30, Polarion X1 and Helios, the following "NEW" lights were compared: AE Xenide 20 watt, Coast 7 Cluster Cree, a Polarion Helios 50watt, Databank 70, and a StreamLight HID. I forgot to bring a lazer range finder, but I check the data log from my gps. The far mountain is appx 550 yards


A quick analysis... the 20watt AE Xeninde was about even with a 7 cluster Creee. The 50watt Helios seemed about the same as the 40 watt Helios. The StreamLight is right there at the top with the Polarions (note: the StreamLight is HUGH in size....) The Databank 70 kicked butt..... but in the end, the HyperBlitz was king of the hill.


The "wide angle" shots 







and now the cropped shots


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## BVH (Feb 7, 2008)

Jeff, what is the Kelvin color temp of the Databank70?


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## Mr Ted Bear (Feb 7, 2008)

bvh

don't know. the Databank 70, has seventy P4 Cree emitters, with optics


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## Burgess (Feb 8, 2008)

Owww . . . .


My eyes !

My eyes !


Seriously, those are some VERY bright lights. 


Thank you for the visual comparisons.

:twothumbs

_


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## JetskiMark (Feb 8, 2008)

Hello Jeff,

Thank you for posting the pictures. That was a fun night we all had out there. 

I'm glad that there are now some beam shots of the most impressive LED light that I have ever seen; the Data Bank 70.

Now I just have to figure out how to build something self-contained and portable that will blow away my HyperBlitz.

Regards,
Mark


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## cue003 (Feb 8, 2008)

Excellent.


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## Flashanator (Feb 8, 2008)

Nice stuff 


I have HyperBlitz drool. baddd


U guys should have went 2 AREA 51, scare the Aliens. LOL


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## Nos (Feb 8, 2008)

:kewlpics:, thanks for posting these

the mag 623 is impressive.......that a incan can stand so well against all those great HID's 

btw does someone has the specs of the Volcano?


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## mtbkndad (Feb 8, 2008)

Nice pics Jeff! :thumbsup:
The X1 still seems to be the throw champ of the Polarion products.
Do you have a pic somewhere of the Databank 70?

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Mr Ted Bear (Feb 8, 2008)

Here's a pic from the SS2008 Party Pictures Thread. pk on left, data on right, and the honeycomb thingee is the Databank 70


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## larryk (Feb 8, 2008)

Great job on the beam shots as always. Looks like a lot of fun.


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## Patriot (Feb 8, 2008)

There is a PH50 now........? How did I miss that? :thinking:

Thanks for the always great shots. I always feel spoiled by your beam comparisons.


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## DM51 (Feb 8, 2008)

Excellent shots! Thanks very much for this - very useful.


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## sledhead (Feb 8, 2008)

Awesome pictures! To have all those at one location was a rare treat for sure. !st time I've see the HyperBlitz-WOW!


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## Flashanator (Feb 8, 2008)

Out of curiosty, has any1 built their own HyperBlitz? With the compact LiPo battery setup? I'm only interested in LiPo's due to their size & weight. I really like the pelicon case idea. 


Later.


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## JetskiMark (Feb 8, 2008)

Nos said:


> ....btw does someone has the specs of the Volcano?



There is info about it here.

I was surprised by how well my vintage hotwire toy did compared to all the HID illumination tools.

Regards,
Mark


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## Icebreak (Feb 8, 2008)

What did you guys do to that Streamlight Lite Box? We just installed 14 of them in our office building and those 20 watters don't look anything like the Box in the Shoot Out.

Killer photos. I like all the lights. The Databank causes me to realize I'm a very normal person. I have a great affection for that Volcano. Anyway all those lights are impressive.

Thanks for thread, Jeff and thanks to all the participants of the ShootOut.


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## Stereodude (Feb 8, 2008)

The Coast 7 LED light is pretty impressive for a relatively low number of LEDs.


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## tvodrd (Feb 8, 2008)

I woosed-out for the event, even after packing a tanklight. Froze my a** off walking from the far end of the convention center to the Monorail station, and again from the station down into my hotel! Also didn't have concrete directions, though talking with the Garmin folks on Monday, turns out I could have entered the coordinates in the GPS and found my way there! :green:

Oh well,

Larry


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## Data (Feb 9, 2008)

Mr Ted Bear

Thanks for the wonderful beam shots! It was a blast seeing you again and meeting everybody. That must have been a lot of work putting all this together.

Cheers
Dave


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## Nitroz (Feb 9, 2008)

Excellent work Ted Bear!

Data,

How is the Data 70 LEDs holding up? How many cycles have you ran the D70?


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## Hodsta (Feb 9, 2008)

Great post Ted - thanks alot.


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## adamlau (Feb 9, 2008)

Nice. I am building a similar Mag623, albeit with an FM3V-2 head. Good to know it will stand in good company.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 9, 2008)

Icebreak said:


> What did you guys do to that Streamlight Lite Box? We just installed 14 of them in our office building and those 20 watters don't look anything like the Box in the Shoot Out.
> 
> Killer photos. I like all the lights. The Databank causes me to realize I'm a very normal person. I have a great affection for that Volcano. Anyway all those lights are impressive.
> 
> Thanks for thread, Jeff and thanks to all the participants of the ShootOut.



That Streamlight's new HID LiteBox.

Bill


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## Data (Feb 9, 2008)

Nitroz said:


> Excellent work Ted Bear!
> 
> Data,
> 
> How is the Data 70 LEDs holding up? How many cycles have you ran the D70?



Probably about 20 cycles and no problems with the LEDs.


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## Icebreak (Feb 9, 2008)

Thanks, Bill. I was completely blanking on that.

Data -

It looks like you really had PK's attention there. It's surprising what intensity your creation attains at distance.


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## woodrow (May 15, 2008)

Wow! Thanks for the photo's! There are some incredibly bright lights out there. I have been trying to decide to purchase a nice little Accro or the Lightbox monster I have in my possession. Right now I have to work every night in town, so I have not been able to do long range beam comparisons more than a few hundred yards. Seeing these pictures may help sway me to the Lightbox.

Thanks again for the photos... I wish I could have been there to see the lights and fellow cpfr's!


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## Patriot (May 15, 2008)

Impressive throw coming from the Lightbox! I also noticed my earlier comment about the PH50 with a big question mark...haha. I'm only guess that it was the same output as the GB and production models though. I guess Ken would be able to answer that.




> Patriot36
> There is a PH50 now........? How did I miss that? :thinking:


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## DM51 (May 19, 2008)

I have added this thread in to the "Spotlights/HID Threads of Interest" sticky.


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## Patriot (May 19, 2008)

Great addition with all of those great beamshot comparisons.


Thanks David!


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## MaxaBaker (May 21, 2008)

The Litebox in those pictures is the stock HID version? That thing looks brighter than the freaking Polarion!

Serious Kudos Streamlight! 


And great job with the pics guys, thank you for sharing them. Looks like you had a lot of fun!


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## windstrings (May 22, 2008)

I agree... quite a bit brighter...... both for distance and spill

The PH50 has a little more light on the ground on the cropped pic, but far less in the distance... but thats typical for polarion... they try to put the light in the working area where they think you will need it most.

I guess its a matter of preference


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## Patriot (May 22, 2008)

Guys, the Streamlight throws better due to the reflector size and shape but it doesn't produce more light by any stretch. In the lumen department, it comes up about 2000 short of the PH50 while being 250-300% larger and heavier than the PH50.


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## Mr Ted Bear (May 22, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> Guys, the Streamlight throws better due to the reflector size and shape but it doesn't produce more light by any stretch. In the lumen department, it comes up about 2000 short of the PH50 while being 250-300% larger and heavier than the PH50.



How did you arrive at the "2000 (lumen) short of the PH 50"? I would give it to the Streamlight... True the Streamlight is much much heavier, and larger.
I got to carry it from the convention center back to the hotel, no fun!!!


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## Patriot (May 22, 2008)

Mr Ted Bear said:


> How did you arrive at the "2000 (lumen) short of the PH 50"? I would give it to the Streamlight... True the Streamlight is much much heavier, and larger.
> I got to carry it from the convention center back to the hotel, no fun!!!



Because it's a 35W HID. Don't Streamlight's own specs put is at 3300 lumens? Polarion PH50 claims 5200-5300 lumens. That's about 2000.


It looks like the new shoot sites that Bob sent me pictures of will capture a larger beam angle than this location did. The farthest distance in these pics appeared to be only a few degrees wide and then sky all behind it. The wide angle shot that you took helps to show the difference a bit better I think.


As you know the beamshape on the wrong topography can be deceiving. This can be illustrated by the picture of the Mag623 4400 bulb lumens (15.6V version) vs. the picture of the Lightbox 3300-3400 bulb lumens. Because of the terrain characteristics and the lens zoom, the Lightbox makes the 623 look like a kid's toy when obviously it's not. 

The location where the pictures were taken favors tight, throwy beams, while making beams with wide coronas look unimpressive. No fault of anyone's of course it's just how it worked out on that particular shoot.


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## MaxaBaker (May 23, 2008)

True, looks certainly can be deceiving. But, numbers can be too.

I guess we'll just have to wait for the new pictures.

Either way, they're obviously both amazing lights


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## Patriot (May 23, 2008)

According to Dan an HID expert at XeVision, 5300 lumens is well within the PH50's 35W bulb overdriven to 50W. He actually went as far as to say that it would be possible theoretically to reach 5700 lumens with that configuration.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/196233&page=3

Streamlight says that their light produces 3350 lumens which technically might be stated a bit high for 35W but maybe it's 36-37W. I'll give it the 3350 going from the pictures in this thread and also the thread below where the ACRO RL-11 and Lightbox were compared. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/197784

You'll also notice in the above link that there is a picture of both lights diffused and the ACRO is actually a bit brighter and rated at 3200 lumens. Part of this could be due the transmissive properties of the two diffusers but it gives a good indication that they're quite close, which is another clue to the Lightbox's actual output. 

I think the comparisons in the first link between the PH50 and XE50 also illustrate how terrain and beamshape can make one light appear so much brighter even though their relative outputs are nearly identical. 

I've come to the belief that the best HID beamshots are taken at a range of 200-300 yards while shining down into a bowl or shining against a backstop. This way the entire beam is captured by some type of surface area, where all the projected light can be seen. This instead of being absorbed by an endless dark horizon. 

I really liked the location with the dirt road that went down a hill and curved to the left. The lights were all shined at various distances against cutout embankments left where the road had been cut. This is a good example of the light's full output being reflected off of some surface and not wasted into space.


In the telephoto shots of the PH50 in this link, you'll notice that the brightest portion of the shot is at the lower left corner. This indicates that the brightest part of the beam is either at that exact point or even below it and out of frame. The light there is so intense than the white painted marker line and black top almost blend together in one overexposed area. The Lightbox doesn't come close to making the white line disappear as most if it's 3300 lumens is traveling well down range. Hopefully tomorrow's shootout location will reveal the weakness in this particular one when trying to compare overall output.


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## MaxaBaker (May 24, 2008)

Very interesting points and observations Patriot. 

Let me make it clear that I have no doubt the Polarion is putting out far more lumens than the LB. I'm sorry if I gave that impression with the vague word 'brighter' in my first post; that was a bad choice. I just meant that, in the given photos, the LB appears to illuminate a larger portion of the frame with greater intensity, apart from the bottom left corner as you pointed out.

The Polarion and LB just seem to throw out their lumens on completely different ends of the 'purpose' spectrum IMO. The PH40/50 have small reflectors in comparison to the LB and therefore lose a lot more of their lumens to sidespill than the LB does (on top of the fact that they aren't really focused into an intense hotspot like the LB is). The Polarions are supposed to be somewhat 'flood-ish', I think (sorry for the technical term ). On the other end, the huge reflector of the LB seems to be designed specifically to throw, and I imagine, penetrate through smoke for use as a fire fighter's tool.

At any rate, now that I've just restated the obvious, my point is that these pictures definitely favor lights that throw very well. I agree with you on that 100%. A lot of the spill from the Polarions isn't visible in the frames, and the wide angle shots are too small for me to see.

In regards to the deceiving numbers comment, I only meant that its very possible for the specs of the Polarions to be optimistic and the LB to be pessimistic. Or, it could be the reverse. It's just too difficult to tell from the posted pictures. I'm not doubting what is or isn't possible.

In the comparison thread with the LB and Acro, it's very interesting to see that the LB looks to have less output than the Acro in the diffuser pics. Maybe it's just me, but in every other picture, the LB seems to put out more total light in every aspect. The hotspot looks larger and more intense throughout, as well as the sidespill. My guess is that the Acro's diffuser is just superior (it's clearly much smoother). But, I can't know for sure since I don't own either of them. They are very close in output which ever way you slice the cake, though.

Anyway, I say bring on more pictures!


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## Patriot (May 24, 2008)

MaxaBaker said:


> In the comparison thread with the LB and Acro, it's very interesting to see that the LB looks to have less output than the Acro in the diffuser pics. Maybe it's just me, but in every other picture, the LB seems to put out more total light in every aspect. The hotspot looks larger and more intense throughout, as well as the sidespill. My guess is that the Acro's diffuser is just superior (it's clearly much smoother). But, I can't know for sure since I don't own either of them. They are very close in output which ever way you slice the cake, though.
> 
> Anyway, I say bring on more pictures!





All good conversation MaxaBaker....I thought you worded everything clearly and in good context.  

I got busy in beam study and with text in my previous post and forgot to include an emoticon so that you would know I was enjoying the friendly conversation and not arguing with your good points.

I got to looking at that diffused pic one more time an realized that I was only looking at the building wall across the parking lot and ignored the edges of the frame. Upon another viewing of that picture it appears that the LB is diffused into a much wider beam. Both the cardboard box on the left and tree on the right are much brighter with the LB. It may be loosing out to the ACRO straight ahead but it's illuminating to the sides where the ACRO isn't. I guess it always pays to take a second look or in this case my fourth look.


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## m3m4 (May 24, 2008)

Great comparisons.

Quick question, how come the SF M4 LOLA has a brighter hotspot than HOLA?
Just wondering...


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## Patriot (May 24, 2008)

m3m4 said:


> Great comparisons.
> 
> Quick question, how come the SF M4 LOLA has a brighter hotspot than HOLA?
> Just wondering...




Assuming they were both aimed at the same target, I'm guessing that the name labels might be transposed.


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## JetskiMark (May 24, 2008)

m3m4 said:


> Great comparisons.
> 
> Quick question, how come the SF M4 LOLA has a brighter hotspot than HOLA?
> Just wondering...



That was my M4 HOLA (MN61) with new SureFire cells (maybe one minute total run time) and it was dimmer than my LOLA (MN60). The LOLA was also whiter. The cells all had the same open circuit voltage. The same MN61 is nice and white in my M6-R with 3x1760s.

I do not know why this happened. Maybe one cell was sagging excessively under load. I do know that the images are labeled accurately.


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## Smile (Jun 26, 2008)

:thumbsup:useful,Great job!


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