# New Insignia 60 and 45 watt equivalent bubls with Cree inside



## bose301s (Nov 2, 2012)

http://www.cree.com/news-and-events/cree-news/press-releases/2012/november/best-buy-bulb




> November 2, 2012
> Best Buy Debuts Exclusive Insignia LED Light Bulb With Improved Features for Easier Adoption of LED Lighting
> New Bulb Designed to Offer More than 20 Years of Energy Cost Savings; Provides Instant, More-Uniform Light in a More-Natural Color
> DURHAM, NC -- Best Buy Co., Inc. (NYSE: BBY), the industry leader in consumer electronics, today announced a new LED light bulb. Powered by Cree, Inc. (Nasdaq: CREE) LEDs, the new bulb is designed with improved features to make adoption of LED lighting easier for consumers. The Insignia LED bulb, available exclusively at Best Buy, was developed in partnership with local Twin Cities inventor Dave Carroll and offers distinct advantages over existing LED bulbs on the market today.




http://www.insigniaproducts.com/products/home-office/NS-LED60F.html


We had one in our staff meeting today, it seems pretty nice and a good price. I am cinsidering buying a couple tomorrow and taking one apart to see what makes it tick.


Please do not quote the article in full to save falling foul of copyright, the first paragraph is fine, the reader can follow your link if they wish. - Norm


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## AnAppleSnail (Nov 2, 2012)

Dang. First time in years Best Buy had something I wanted to buy at a good price. Let us know how they are - it's a long haul to the nearest BB for me.


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## DaMeatMan (Nov 2, 2012)

Good to see more choices out there. Philips however offers a more efficient 60 watt equivalent at only 10.5 watts and is similarly priced. 

I may buy one of those insignia bulbs, however I have a feeling that the heatsink design will introduce shadows that you will not find in these Phillips bulbs. I have replaced every bulb in my condo with the 40 and 60 watt equivalent Philips led bulbs. For the most part I am using the 40 watt equivalents that are only drawing 7.5 watts. Colour temp is gorgeous and very similar to a high end incandescent, and much nicer then any cfl I have ever owned!

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Philips-10...ight-White-3000K-Light-Bulb-420240/203248902/

http://m.homedepot.com/p/Philips-Vi...ht-White-3000K-Light-Bulb-E-420232/203248901/


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## IMSabbel (Nov 2, 2012)

23 years at 3 hours a day.... for some reason, I think that the drivers of those bulbs will fail LONG before the LEDs themself will.

We might really want to look into a separation of CC driver from the LED itself, just like there is the ballast / tube separation for fluerescent tubes...


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## RoGuE_StreaK (Nov 2, 2012)

Are there any bayonet bulbs available in the US, or are they all Edison? These could be interesting if I could find somewhere that shipped, and had bayonet. I think I've only got one fitting in the whole house that uses Edison.


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 2, 2012)

IMSabbel said:


> 23 years at 3 hours a day.... for some reason, I think that the drivers of those bulbs will fail LONG before the LEDs themself will.
> 
> We might really want to look into a separation of CC driver from the LED itself, just like there is the ballast / tube separation for fluerescent tubes...


That is about 7 years at 8 hours a day perhaps... it won't compete well with CFLs that can last around the same length running the same hours/day costing less and nearly as efficient.


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## slebans (Nov 2, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> That is about 7 years at 8 hours a day perhaps... it won't compete well with CFLs that can last around the same length running the same hours/day costing less and nearly as efficient.



The stated lifetime spec for this LED bulb is 25,000 hours(I'll guess they are applying for Energy Star certification). The standard CFL lifetime spec is 10,000 hours.

But I would point out that this LED bulb is not directly competing against the standard CFL 60 watt equivalent bulb. It is competing against a dimmable CFL bulb with lower efficacy and a lifetime spec of 8,000 hours with a cost between $8 - $10.

I still agree with you that CFL is a better value for the customer - as long as they customer does not need:
1) Dimming capability
2) Base up orientation
3) Efficient cold weather operation
4) Long life due to maintenance considerations
5) Instant full brightness


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## IMSabbel (Nov 3, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> That is about 7 years at 8 hours a day perhaps... it won't compete well with CFLs that can last around the same length running the same hours/day costing less and nearly as efficient.



My point was actually only that at this lifetimes, I would consider the driver circuit the archilles heel, espeically with the elevated temperatures these bulbs operate on.


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 3, 2012)

IMSabbel said:


> My point was actually only that at this lifetimes, I would consider the driver circuit the archilles heel, espeically with the elevated temperatures these bulbs operate on.



And the problem with warranties is too many of them require you to return to the manufacturer which usually does not pay for shipping and even then they may just mail you another one that self destructs similarly in the future. Insignia is a low to mid level manufacturer IMO they sell the cheaper or cheapest electronic stuff typically found at Walmart so chances are their bulbs are similarly made.


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## bose301s (Nov 5, 2012)

dirtytoenails said:


> These are the XT-E's not the XB-Ds. XT-Es are bigger, better efficiency (and more expensive). At only 61 lm/W, they're using the high efficiency XT-E's and throwing away the efficiency, which for the XT-E is about 100 lm/W.
> 
> There is a horrible buzzing from the driver on any of the bulbs I have. Put on a dimmer circuit it gets worse, so I'm trying to use one in my living room lamp where we have the TV so I can drown out the buzz. I expect the driver to fail within a year as this thing gets hot! I agree that the Philips bulbs are much better for anyone looking for quality.


Hmm, the package looked smaller to me than the XP-Gs so I thought it was XB-D, but I definitely could be mistaken. They did complete the Cree TEMPO testing which is pretty rigorous so I have some confidence in them, but they definitely aren't the highest quality, definitely built to a price point first and quality second.


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## VegasF6 (Nov 5, 2012)

Bought one of these today (the 13 watt version) and have been testing it in an open fixture, base up. There is no humming what so ever from mine, even if I put my ear right next to it. But it runs REALLY hot. Like can't hold your finger on it hot. Bright as all get out.


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## idleprocess (Nov 6, 2012)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Insignia is a low to mid level manufacturer IMO they sell the cheaper or cheapest electronic stuff typically found at Walmart so chances are their bulbs are similarly made.


Eh, I'd be amazed if Insignia was anything more than a purchasing, marketing, and distribution operation run out of a secondary Best Buy office. 

A few predictions:

These bulbs will not live on Best Buy store shelves long past Christmas
Some white-label contract manufacturer designed these on spec
The design exploits some minor manufacturing innovation that makes them marginally cheaper to produce than comparable designs a fractional generation before, making them more profitable for the distribution chain for 60-90 days
Best Buy is selling them as a novelty item, and is making more margin than the likes of Home Depot on something (functionally) comparable
Woot.com (or some other deep discounter) will pick them up in early 2013 and sell them in 2-packs at 50-75% of today's retail for a single bulb


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 6, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> Eh, I'd be amazed if Insignia was anything more than a purchasing, marketing, and distribution operation run out of a secondary Best Buy office.
> 
> A few predictions:
> 
> ...


Yeah you are probably right since I have a DTV box made by LG for Zenith that they also make a model (same guts) for Insignia. If they do finally make their own stuff it would be because they bought someone that already makes it for them. I typically don't like buying some stuff by companies like that unless I know who actually makes it in the first place because as some have seen here those branding flashlights have switched manufacturers when product demand increases or something and quality can fall off a cliff requiring another switch and perhaps even another. In other words if they make 1 million of the bulbs the first batch of 100,000 could come from 1 place and 600,000 from another and 200,000 from a third place and quality of component sourcing and assembly could vary enough to make one batch work perfection 99.9% of the time and another batch work right 70% of the time while saving 10% more for them to pocket.


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## monkeyboy (Nov 6, 2012)

DaMeatMan said:


> Good to see more choices out there. Philips however offers a more efficient 60 watt equivalent at only 10.5 watts and is similarly priced.



Don't trust advertised specs, even from a big company like philips. Usually just a bunch of figures dreamed up by marketing. e.g. "60w equivalent" is a very vague figure and power ratings are never accurate. 
I remember seeing tests of 1st generation fluorescent bulbs and the advertised specs were complete BS. (Of course things have improved a lot since then)


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## foxtrot824 (Nov 6, 2012)

I'll post more regarding it's luminous output later but quick numbers show only about 61 lumens per watt when hot (about 80c at the ribs). The emitters are Ctee XT-Es. The CCT was 3000K right on the line with a CRI of about 80.


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## AnAppleSnail (Nov 6, 2012)

foxtrot824 said:


> 61 lumens per watt when hot (about 80c at the ribs).



Yeouch! Water at 80C (175F) burns skin in about half a second. I wouldn't consider that safe in a working environment.


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## VegasF6 (Nov 6, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Yeouch! Water at 80C (175F) burns skin in about half a second. I wouldn't consider that safe in a working environment.


Since when is it ok to touch a light bulb?


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## AnAppleSnail (Nov 6, 2012)

VegasF6 said:


> Since when is it ok to touch a light bulb?



General product design forbids surfaces that are unsafe (potentially injurious) without warning. Assuming common sense (Light bulbs are hot) is risky in that business.


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## VegasF6 (Nov 6, 2012)

Well of course it needs a big fat warning label. And perhaps another label to warn the first label could cause a paper cut 
Seriously though, as I said this lamp gets very hot. Like I could touch it for a full second or so before I let go. But it didn't raise blisters and wasn't anywhere near as hot as an incandescent globe b


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## bose301s (Nov 6, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> Eh, I'd be amazed if Insignia was anything more than a purchasing, marketing, and distribution operation run out of a secondary Best Buy office.
> 
> A few predictions:
> 
> ...



Did you even read the press release :shakehead


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## idleprocess (Nov 6, 2012)

bose301s said:


> Did you even read the press release :shakehead



No, I generally avoid press releases due to their high fluff content - even from companies like Cree.

But hey, let's look at the highlights paragraph-by-paragraph:

Cree and Best Buy - BFF's - team up with local "inventor" (who happens to have the same name as a Best Buy district manager) to bring to the buying public yet another LED light bulb
This amazing™ new LED light bulb resembles a conventional A19 incandescent bulb - _the first *ever*_ - and does what every other LED bulb does
More of the same, since _all other LED light bulbs_ are weird shapes that frighten babies and emit some ghastly colors ala the Luxeon Lottery circa 2004; also Best Buy is selling them at a price comparable to what's available from the likes of Lowes or Home Depot, but since there's no competing brand next to them on the shelf for comparison, they can mark them up a bit more (sort of like how Brookstone and Sharper Image manage to stay afloat)
Generic positioning statement, again claiming that this particular product is more-special than anything else on the market from established OEM's
Wow, it outperforms an incandescent, like pretty much every LED bulb ever since they achieved broad retail availability years ago; 10-year warranty is the only thing that stands out
Cree positioning statement that has little to do with the product
Label specs
Generic Cree press release footer
Generic Best Buy press release footer

Looking at the teardown pix, I'm noticing an alarming lack of heatsinking for that kind of power.


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## bose301s (Nov 7, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> No, I generally avoid press releases due to their high fluff content - even from companies like Cree.
> 
> But hey, let's look at the highlights paragraph-by-paragraph:
> 
> ...


Just because someone is a BB manager doesn't also mean they don't work on stuff in their spare time.

Again though, the TEMPO testing is pretty thorough and Cree will not let a company put the Cree logo on a product that doesn't pass and feel is of poor qualiy. This excludes the Chinese flashlights you see that plaster Cree logo's everywhere, defintely not authorized use of the logo but they do it anyway.


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## idleprocess (Nov 7, 2012)

bose301s said:


> Just because someone is a BB manager doesn't also mean they don't work on stuff in their spare time.


A possibility, however every manager in retail I've come across at the store level and above has approximately zero free time due to the demands of the job.



> Again though, the TEMPO testing is pretty thorough and Cree will not let a company put the Cree logo on a product that doesn't pass and feel is of poor qualiy. This excludes the Chinese flashlights you see that plaster Cree logo's everywhere, defintely not authorized use of the logo but they do it anyway.


TEMPO testing is a service that Cree offers to nearly anyone that supplies samples and coughs up the fee.

Product page claims use of Cree LED's which as a simple statement of fact should not require any sort of permission. Didn't see a Cree logo on the packaging images, but perhaps the photos are too low-res to make it out.

Looking at the teardown photos again, it appears that the spines that the LED MCPCB's are mounted to is the only heatsinking. Assuming about 4W per "lobe", that's just not a lot of heatsinking per. Newer LED's such as the XB-D that are binned at 85C (and presumably designed to routinely operate around that temperature) might be fine in that sort of environment; other LED's will likely be marginal. I did not see any obvious means for temperature detection on the MCPCB itself nor any other apparent thermal-management aspects.

I could be wrong and maybe there's some secret sauce that makes them awesome ... but I'm just not seeing it.


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## bose301s (Nov 7, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> A possibility, however every manager in retail I've come across at the store level and above has approximately zero free time due to the demands of the job.
> 
> 
> TEMPO testing is a service that Cree offers to nearly anyone that supplies samples and coughs up the fee.
> ...



I know what TEMPO testing is. There is a Cree logo on the box and to put that there they have to have approval of Cree and pass our testing standards so we know it won't fail and give us bad publicity as a result of a poorly designed product failing. It is using XT-E LEDs which are 85C binned LEDs. I don't see any secret sauce either but they also aren't terrible.


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## foxtrot824 (Nov 8, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> A possibility, however every manager in retail I've come across at the store level and above has approximately zero free time due to the demands of the job.
> 
> 
> TEMPO testing is a service that Cree offers to nearly anyone that supplies samples and coughs up the fee.
> ...



The LED is are binned hot, I am guessing this is why the packaging advertises a life of 25,000 hours and not something closer to 50,000. For $17 it's not a bad deal but at a CRI of 80 it's not that amazing. The L prize bulb takes the cake if you ask me.


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## idleprocess (Nov 8, 2012)

foxtrot824 said:


> The LED is are binned hot, I am guessing this is why the packaging advertises a life of 25,000 hours and not something closer to 50,000. For $17 it's not a bad deal but at a CRI of 80 it's not that amazing. The L prize bulb takes the cake if you ask me.



It would seem Philips exhausted their supply of the unobtanium they made the L-Prize bulbs from, so one will have to settle for something else...


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## LEDAdd1ct (Nov 8, 2012)

Direct link to warranty statement


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## Harold_B (Nov 12, 2012)

Innexpensive which is nice, doesn't look too bad when lit which is good, looks cheap and feels like it too which is not so good. The sales might suffer if they don't have one lit on display. I like the minimal packaging and that the bulb seems pretty robust if it were dropped. It gets mighty hot. 90 C on the outside of the heatsink in a 20 C ambient room after 15 minutes in open air. We plan to pop the top and measure near the junction on the PCB a little later. http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j390/Harold_LF/Insignia800.jpg


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## foxtrot824 (Nov 12, 2012)

Excellent photo. Thank you. On the topic of opening the lamp, it does not open nicely if you intend to reassemble it. I can post pictures of the fingers that hold it together if you like.



Harold_B said:


> Innexpensive which is nice, doesn't look too bad when lit which is good, looks cheap and feels like it too which is not so good. The sales might suffer if they don't have one lit on display. I like the minimal packaging and that the bulb seems pretty robust if it were dropped. It gets mighty hot. 90 C on the outside of the heatsink in a 20 C ambient room after 15 minutes in open air. We plan to pop the top and measure near the junction on the PCB a little later. http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j390/Harold_LF/Insignia800.jpg


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## Harold_B (Nov 12, 2012)

I popped the top on a 450lm before measuring this one. They don't intend for it to come apart! We plan to make other measurements before we do anything distructive but thanks. I will say there's never too many photos when checking out a new product.


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