# Introducing: Seoul P4 U bin Turbo LED Module - more outdoor beamshots !!!



## wquiles (Jan 21, 2007)

Several weeks back I created a Turbo LED Module for the KT4 head using the Cree XR-E LED, as shown here .

This time I am using the new Seoul P4 U bin emiter that I just received from the Shoppe. To see what is the best I can hope for, I built this module with a 1000mA Downboy converter from the Shoppe :naughty: 

This time I saved you the agony of seeing the lathe pictures. Here is the completed Seoul Turbo LED Heatsink on the right. Standard 5W Luxeon Module on the left:












Here I drill the holes for the wires and for the spring:






The Seoul LED's from the Shoppe. This one has the legs cut, getting ready to be epoxied in place:





















Here is the completed module, sans the electronics:






Here is the completed module:


























Here is a "family group photo". 5W on top, Cree XR-E in the middle, and Seoul P4 on the bottom (sorry for the off-color shot!):






5W on the left, Cree XR-E in the middle, Seoul P4 on the right:











From what I have played with the module so far, as I suspected this LED (like the Cree) does work better when sitting higher than the Luxeon predecessor (5W). I am still fine-tunning the exact length of the post, but the results are much better than with the Cree XR-E given the wider beam shape of the Seoul. One thing I can state already is that with a normal Turbo LED module the Seoul LED would sit too low and will give less than optimum focus (I tested this already by shimming this unit I built), so as McGizmo has stated several time, proper focus requires the Seoul to sit higher.

Those are the photos of my new module - beamshots later tonight when it gets dark :naughty: 

EDIT: It is dark here in central Texas :rock: 
Beamshots: Canon Rebel XT on tripod, Canon 24-105F4 "L" on 24mm (wide), F5.6 aperture.

Outdoors against a fence with my driveway to show spill (3 second exposure):
The Seoul Turbo LED Module:





The 5W Turbo LED Module:





The Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module:





Note how the Seoul and the 5W are very similar in overall output, even while the Seoul gives a more focused beam. As before the Cree XR-E is all about spill, and very little in the center.


Then against a fence across the street to show throw (3 second exposure):
The Seoul Turbo LED Module:





The 5W Turbo LED Module:





The Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module:





The Cree gets killed here - very little throw. The Seoul simply kicks but here with its more focused beam  


Then indoors (2 second exposure):
The Seoul Turbo LED Module:





The 5W Turbo LED Module:





The Cree XR-E Turbo LED Module:





Note again that the Seoul and the 5W are very similar in total output, and that once again the Cree is all about sidebeam 


Overall: This is a fantastic module and a superb bang for the buck. The Seoul brings 5W-type of performance, to a 3W package, and with better throw :naughty: 


EDIT: 1/27/07: Added these outdoor beamshots. Canon Rebel XT, 24-105F4 "L" on wide(24). F5.6 @ 4 seconds. About 100 feet to the corner of the fence. I have a normal size soccer ball there for reference.

The McG45 with a 5W "W" bin at 1Amp using the 45mm McGizmo reflector:






The 5W Turbo LED Module:






The Seoul Turbo LED Module:






The MN20, showing why incandescents have such awesome color rendition outdoors (sorry for the tripod not pointing in the same direction as in prior shots):






Will


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## TranquillityBase (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Seoul P4 U bin Turbo LED Module*

Great job Will...

Great photos too...

TB


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## LED Zeppelin (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Seoul P4 U bin Turbo LED Module*

Nice Will, looking forward to seeing your beamshots.

Also would you mind sharing the dimensional difference between the Seoul and a Lux for proper focus? 0.030" higher for the Seoul in the same reflector seems to be the consensus, is that true for your TM as well?


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## nightrider (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Seoul P4 U bin Turbo LED Module*

Yes. Good job!
Standing by for further results/comparisons/beamshots!


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## bombelman (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Seoul P4 U bin Turbo LED Module*

Great mod !


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## wquiles (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Seoul P4 U bin Turbo LED Module - updated with beamshots !!!*

First post updated with beamshots :rock: 






LED Zeppelin said:


> Also would you mind sharing the dimensional difference between the Seoul and a Lux for proper focus? 0.030" higher for the Seoul in the same reflector seems to be the consensus, is that true for your TM as well?


I am still fine-tuning the final distance - I am playing with 3 very thin shims to get the best overall focus. So far I can say that 0.030" was not enough for this KT4 reflector, but then I am comparing to the specific 5W module shown in the photos above. Since I can't claim that the 5W is focused perfectly, it is not a great reference point or a very well "known" quantity. Once I am done, I will have the exact height for the Seoul, which is the end goal so that I can make more 

Will


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## DaFABRICATA (Jan 22, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Seoul P4 U bin Turbo LED Module - updated with beamshots !!!*

If I had an Arcmania TH tower, can I just replace the LED?


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## wquiles (Jan 22, 2007)

*Re: Introducing: Seoul P4 U bin Turbo LED Module - updated with beamshots !!!*



DaFABRICATA said:


> If I had an Arcmania TH tower, can I just replace the LED?


Based on what I have learned so far, most likely the LED would sit too low and would not focus properly. If you raised the LED "about" 0.030", it "should" focus properly, but I don't have an Arcmania TH tower to test/verify this.

Will


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## wquiles (Jan 27, 2007)

Updated first post with additional outdoor pictures 

Will


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## flex76italy (Jan 28, 2007)

Hey Will :goodjob: as always.....when you start the production?


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## wquiles (Jan 28, 2007)

flex76italy said:


> Hey Will :goodjob: as always.....when you start the production?


I am finishing come custom work for another CPF member, and as soon as I am done I will be building 2-3 for sale 

Will


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## NewBie (Jan 28, 2007)

It is too bad the KT4 reflector is really too shallow to direct much of the light out of the XR-E, looks like the Seoul P4 is a better choice for this reflector when one desires throw.

However, I see in the wall shot, the 25% less power XR-E has a lot more flood brightness, and it takes a tremendous amount of power to make the flood area look brighter.

I noticed your XR-E setup is running at 750mA instead of 1A like the rest.

Did you happen to take a shot of the XR-E based one of your grass yard?

In your MN20 shot, the sky is a different hue, was the white balance not locked or something?


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## nemul (Jan 28, 2007)

wow downboy 7000!!!! lol j/k


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## CM (Jan 28, 2007)

That's some very nice workmanship there. With the output of the Seoul being so high, I bet you can dial down the bias and get some insane runtime in an M6 body and still get great output. :thumbsup:


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## wquiles (Jan 28, 2007)

NewBie said:


> It is too bad the KT4 reflector is really too shallow to direct much of the light out of the XR-E, looks like the Seoul P4 is a better choice for this reflector when one desires throw.
> 
> However, I see in the wall shot, the 25% less power XR-E has a lot more flood brightness, and it takes a tremendous amount of power to make the flood area look brighter.
> 
> ...


Yes, for this reflector, the Seoul does provide a more efficient setup for throw. 

As you noted, and just because of the drivers that I had at hand (no conspiracy :naughty: ), the Cree was built with a 750mA and the Seoul with the 1000mA downboy. Even with less current, the Cree gives great flood/sidebeam, but after trying both, I rather have the Seoul beam 

No, I didn't take an extra shot on the grass/fence with the Cree. Kind of disappointing throw so I excluded it from the last beamshots.

As to the white balance, yes, unfortunately yours trully still had that on automatic, so the exposure is a tad off as you can see. I gotta remember for next time  




nemul said:


> wow downboy 7000!!!! lol j/k


Yes, you noticed as well. My guess is that Wayne at the Shoppe simply re-used the 700mA label and "converted" the label to 1000mA for the one he shipped me :laughing: 




CM said:


> That's some very nice workmanship there. With the output of the Seoul being so high, I bet you can dial down the bias and get some insane runtime in an M6 body and still get great output. :thumbsup:


Thanks 

Yes, at 750mA I bet it would still be very nice for throw and even longer runtimes. I picked 1000mA to test the "high-end" as to what could be expected. Then again, with the lottery going, the next Seoul LED could be brighter, or dimmer 

Will


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## flex76italy (Jan 28, 2007)

wquiles said:


> I am finishing come custom work for another CPF member, and as soon as I am done I will be building 2-3 for sale
> 
> Will




Good, count me in for one from now! :goodjob:


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## NewBie (Jan 29, 2007)

Interesting.

If you ever do turn the Seoul back down by 25% to 750mA, it would be very interesting to see it up against the 750mA XR-E.

It is interesting that EngrPaul didn't see the Seoul P4 smoking the XR-E like that either (my experience also), but I do see a lot more energy going into flood, which has been my experience also. Do you have a picture of the KT4 reflector, as something looks a bit weird, besides the 25% less current in the XR-E:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1817540&postcount=9


It would be nice if you could remember to lock the white balance. Since it was unlocked, and the camera automatically makes everything look white, we can't really use this for guaging on color rendering against the MN20, and explains why the MN20 looked extra white.

...

I just saw your photo of the KT4 reflector and it is very shallow indeed. Looking at the fence photos especially, there is a huge amount of light lighting up the whole fence, where with the LuxV and Seoul P4, the fence is dark in comparision.

With such a shallow reflector, that explains worlds.


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## Gene (Jan 29, 2007)

As always, great work Will! I love what the pic showing the MN20 beamshot points out. As you stated, incans really make a difference in color retention in the dark and that's one of the main reasons I will never get rid of my remaining incans.


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## Aepoc (Mar 6, 2007)

Nice Job with the towers and the pics. They gave me some insight on my tower mod. Can't wait to get my AW order.


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## mpc (Mar 6, 2007)

I am correct in saying that the Arctic Alumina Epoxy is necessary on the top of the tower in the case of the Seoul LED or is the tower isolated ?


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## wquiles (Mar 7, 2007)

Aepoc said:


> Nice Job with the towers and the pics. They gave me some insight on my tower mod. Can't wait to get my AW order.


Thanks 




Gene said:


> As always, great work Will! I love what the pic showing the MN20 beamshot points out. As you stated, incans really make a difference in color retention in the dark and that's one of the main reasons I will never get rid of my remaining incans.


Thanks. Yes, although the white balance was not set right, in person, the MN20 looked the best outdoors 





mpc said:


> I am correct in saying that the Arctic Alumina Epoxy is necessary on the top of the tower in the case of the Seoul LED or is the tower isolated ?


With the Seoul, you need to isolate the bottom of the emiter (which is at + potential) from making an electrical contact with the heatsink (which is at - or GND potential). But you also try to find a way to "move" the heat from the emiter to the heatsink, so AA Epoxy does in fact do a good job for this. The key is to try to have as thin a layer of AA Epoxy as possible between the emiter ant the HS while not creating an electrical short circuit 

Will


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## Aepoc (Mar 7, 2007)

Have you ever put arctic silver on a computer processor? I can imagine that it would be similar. You use just enough epoxy to cover the part of the heat sink where the led will go... no more. Will this be enough epoxy to isolate the charges?


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## mpc (Mar 7, 2007)

It's slightly different than that I think. The CPU is a piece of ceramic material, the only danger is allowing the excess thermal paste to flow onto the gold pins. In the case of a Seoul slug and the heatsink, it is actually two charged items with a layer of thermal but not electrically conductive epoxy between them. So the alumina is in - but the silver would cause problems as it contains metal particulates.


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