# Tiablo ACE (700 lumens) Comparison Review



## UnknownVT (Jan 24, 2009)

Courtesy of 4sevens is this *700 lumens* Tiablo ACE.

What can I say, *700* lumens in a hand held LED flashlight?
It wasn't that long ago we thought that the Luxeon was bright at 30 lumens, and many of us still use the ArcAAA......

Size -








it's got a big head - but it is _not_ enormous - 
the body is for 2x CR123 and there is a supplied extension to make it a 4x CR123 light.

Head -




this is my standard scanned pic of the heads - but because the head is big and deep the LED emitters are out of focus.

Emitter in focus -





Close up of Tiablo ACE head (left) - A10 head (right)-








Emitter details ACE - Cree MC-E (left) - A10 R2 (right)







The Cree MC-E is a 4 die emitter.

The Tiablo ACE specs are not clear to what lumens ratings apply to what battery configuration - or if the 700 lumens applies to all battery configurations. 

But I can tell you this sucker's *BRIGHT*!

2x CR123A -

vs. Tiablo A10 (R2) rated 260 lumens Max - both on 2x primary CR123







it's pretty obvious that the Tiablo ACE is noticably brighter - even in the full normal exposure. The -2 Stops underexposed shot will need some explanation (see later in the 4x CR123 configuration**)

vs. Fenix P3D- RB100 Turbo (rated 200 lumens) - both on primary CR123A -







what is a pretty bright pocketable flashlight - the Fenix P3D-RB100 (rated at 200 lumens) is dwarfed by this Tiablo ACE.

4x CR123 - 
this configuration should be the brightest possible as the light is running on 12 Volts

vs. Tiablo A10 Max -







Afain it's very obvious that the ACE is noticably brighter than the A10.

The -2 Stops Underexposed shot might not be quite valid here or above**
because I managed to take this -2 Stops Underexposed shot literally less than a minute before -




because the shutter speed was very high (1/800 sec) due to the brightness of these lights - 
it managed to miss the PWM light pulse - 
resulting in showing the beam as black - 
yes, the A10 even on Max is still pulsed/PWM - albeit a fast one - 
I can easily see the pulsing on the LCD screen of my digicam, which made me double check the brightness setting.

So PWM makes humans see different levels of brightness by different duty cycles - and our eye/brain combination averages the light out.

But unless the camera catches a few pulses - it is not averaging - 
case in point is my dark beamshot - 
so I do not know how valid the -2 Stops Underexposed comparisons are for A10.

However the Fenix P3D-RB100 is constant current regulated -







This set looks similar to the comparison with the ACE on 2x CR123A

So from this qualitative/subjective comparison - I would guess that the 700 lumens rating applies to 2x or 4x CR123....

Like I said this sucker's _*BRIGHT!*_

Just to put things into context 700 lumens is somewhere between a 40 and 60 watt standard household light bulb - GE rates its 57 watt softwhite light bulb at 770 lumens and we know a 60 watt light bulb will light up a whole average sized room - imagine that light focussed ....
well, you don't have to - just try a Tiablo ACE

*Index* to follow up parts -

Standardized Stairway beamshots in Post #*4*

Re-Do of -2 Stops Underexposed shot for the A10 comparison in Post #*27*


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## 276 (Jan 24, 2009)

Wow now i want one !!


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## Badbeams3 (Jan 24, 2009)

Ohh wow, yea...I`d say it`s noticably brighter  I wonder what the total cost would be for the light, two lithium batts and the required charger would be. How many power levels does this light have?

Opps...thanks for the review, got to clean the slobber off my keyboard now


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## UnknownVT (Jan 25, 2009)

Standardized stairway beamshots -














It's pretty obvious as in the side-by-side comparison beamshots that the Tiablo ACE is a lot brighter than the Tiablo A10 - 
afterall it is 700 vs. 260 lumens......

However it's interesting to see that Tiablo ACE on 2x CR123A looks like the same brightness as using 4x CR123A.


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## Jager (Jan 25, 2009)

hmm, we have to find out of its brighter on 2x batteries or on 4x batteries! if its honestly the same brightness, i wil buy this light! with an extention tube needed for 4x batteries, the light will be too long for me. i hope with 2x batteries my predictions could be true. how about some outside throw beam shots with 2x vs 4x batteries? thanks!


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## Swedpat (Jan 25, 2009)

Thanks UnknownVT for the great review and pictures!

I see at http://www.light-reviews.com/tiablo_ace/ that the regulation is great and you will gain much with using 4 cells than 2. The brightness will be slightly higher and the runtime with stable output more than twice! Actually it's much more efficient with 4 cells.
I like the textured reflector and the wider hotspot of the ACE in comparison to A10. The question is how this light is compared to the soon offered Fenix TK40 with similar output using 8AA cells, but also with several modes? 

You say: "It wasn't that long ago we thought that the Luxeon was bright at 30 lumens".
Actually it wasn't that long ago I thought my Maglite 6D was the brightest available flashlight... 

Addition: also the price for the ACE isn't much higher than I payed for my A9 a year ago. That's good!

Regards, Patric


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## Crenshaw (Jan 25, 2009)

wow, i almost didnt want the ACE due to the lack of throwing power compared to the A10.....but woahhhhh.....now im not sure...

Crenshaw


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## optodoofus (Jan 25, 2009)

Wow! Very impressive. Thanks for the great review. I was planning on waiting to see the reviews of the TK40, but it will be hard to resist picking up an ACE now.

My wife asked me if I really need another flashlight. Of course, I don't NEED another flashlight. I'm not sure what her point was.

optodoofus


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## Swedpat (Jan 25, 2009)

optodoofus,

I also wonder if I shall get an ACE or wait for TK40...
Or maybe get ACE to play with during the time I am waiting for the TK40! 
For a flashoholic every new great flashlight is a need... :twothumbs


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## Swedpat (Jan 25, 2009)

From post1: 


> So PWM makes humans see different levels of brightness by different duty cycles - and our eye/brain combination averages the light out.


Yes, I have noticed that fact when I tried to look at the shutter of an slr-camera from behind with the "backdoor" open. Looking towards some bright object you actually can see the object even with 1/2000s. When comparing different shutter speeds of very short time you will not experience that 1/2000s is shorter time than 1/1000 or 1/500s. Instead the object appears to be dimmer.

Regards, Patric


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## UnknownVT (Jan 25, 2009)

Jager said:


> hmm, we have to find out of its brighter on 2x batteries or on 4x batteries! if its honestly the same brightness, i wil buy this light! with an extention tube needed for 4x batteries, the light will be too long for me. i hope with 2x batteries my predictions could be true. how about some outside throw beam shots with 2x vs 4x batteries? thanks!


 
I think I have already shown that 2x is as bright as 4x CR123A by both side-by side comparison beamshots with a "control" Fenix P3D-RB100 in the opening post, and standardized stairway beamshots using 2x and 4x CR123A in post #*4*.

Outdoors - gets us distance - so I tend to use for throw comparison - there are lights that get great throw but are not necessarily very bright - they are just focussed well to a concentrated hotspot - I have a classic example of the Dorcy 1watt 3D designed as a very good thrower - albeit an over-achiever, it is still only a 1watt Luxeon.

Since a distance of about 15 feet (stairway) is not showing any significant difference (if anything the 2x stairway may have looked a fraction brighter in those shots) - outdoors is unlikely to show any significant difference either.


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## optodoofus (Jan 25, 2009)

Is there any battery rattle when using primaries in the ACE? This is pretty common on lights designed to run on both primaries and 18650s, so I'm curious as the experience with the ACE.

Thanks in advance.

optodoofus


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## UnknownVT (Jan 25, 2009)

optodoofus said:


> Is there any battery rattle when using primaries in the ACE? This is pretty common on lights designed to run on both primaries and 18650s, so I'm curious as the experience with the ACE.


 
No rattle normally (light shaking?)

But if shaken vigorously there is some noise.

So one can deliberately make it rattle - but I don't think it does "normally" -
eg: it's about the same as a Fenix P3D or L1D - 
which I had never noticed rattled, until shaken just now.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 25, 2009)

So does it run (dimmer I'd wager) on 1x 18650?

I'd love to see an outdoor shot if it isn't too inconvenient. 

Interesting that it apears to uses PWM at that output level. :thinking:


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## Wilkerson Brasil (Jan 25, 2009)

This Tiablo ACE is awesome! 

Raidfire should create a pill with MC-E led for Spear. It would be great.


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## UnknownVT (Jan 25, 2009)

PhantomPhoton said:


> Interesting that it apears to uses PWM at that output level. :thinking:


 
No, it's the A10 that runs PWM even at Max - 
the ACE does _NOT_.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 25, 2009)

Yep I was talking about the A10. Sorry I didn't state it clearly though.


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## UnknownVT (Jan 25, 2009)

PhantomPhoton said:


> So does it run (dimmer I'd wager) on 1x 18650?


 
It does according to the Tiablo ACE specs -

" _3. Working voltage is 3.7~12v. Support 1 x 18650，2xCR123A, 2 x RCR123A, 2x18650, 4xCR123A (Remark: when use 1 x 18650, the highest current is 1.8A, so it is safe to use 1x 18650) "_

- and it does not seem to be dimmer on a single 18650 -

" _4. Max output 700lumen, runtime: 45minutes( 1pcs 3000mAh 18650) and 3 hours (2pcs 3000mAh 18650)_ "

This would kind of make sense since it seems the Tiablo ACE has to be using a Buck circuit - and the Cree XLamp MC-E LED (pdf) specs say the typical Vf @ 700mA is 3.4V - so even a single 18650 probably is still being stepped down?


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## PhantomPhoton (Jan 25, 2009)

Yup that's what I'm thinking. I'm hoping to see a runtime graph of the Ace soo  to see how well it regulaes on 1x 18650. 2x 18650 option is icing on the cake imo.
Cant wait to see a shootout of the MCE lights. DBS, Sniper, Jetbeam, Lumapower, and this Tiablo... :sigh: If only I had $1K to blow (and a better camera).

Anyway thaks for the review and the answers.


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## resistance1 (Jan 25, 2009)

Cant wait to get mine in the mail, hopefully tomorrow or the day after.


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## ernsanada (Jan 25, 2009)

PhantomPhoton said:


> So does it run (dimmer I'd wager) on 1x 18650?
> 
> I'd love to see an outdoor shot if it isn't too inconvenient.
> 
> Interesting that it apears to uses PWM at that output level. :thinking:




I ran my ACE with 1 18650. The light flickered a lot. I think the ACE needs 2 18650 to light up.


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## toby_pra (Jan 26, 2009)

Very nice review...

Is teh Tiablo much more brighter when using the extension tube???


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## Crenshaw (Jan 26, 2009)

hey unknownvt.., you probably considered this..but have you tried burst shooting the 1/800sec shot and taking the brightest one?

Crenshaw


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## HKJ (Jan 26, 2009)

Crenshaw said:


> hey unknownvt.., you probably considered this..but have you tried burst shooting the 1/800sec shot and taking the brightest one?



It would be better to adjust the aperture (It requires an SLR camera for a decent range of apertures), or use a gray filter.


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## Federal LG (Jan 26, 2009)

Wow! Look at those stairway beamshots! You almost can´t see the line between the door and the wall!

Nice review Vincent! :thumbsup:


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## applevision (Jan 26, 2009)

DROOL!


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## UnknownVT (Jan 26, 2009)

UnknownVT said:


> The -2 Stops Underexposed shot might not be quite valid here or above**
> because I managed to take this -2 Stops Underexposed shot literally less than a minute before -
> 
> 
> ...


 


Crenshaw said:


> but have you tried burst shooting the 1/800sec shot and taking the brightest one?


 
It's the fast shutter speed - as it is only open for 1/800 sec it can miss the PWM pulse - 
burst speed has nothing to do with it - burst shooting even with a reasonably "fast" dSLR is still in the region of 2-6fps that's 1/2 to 1/6sec - it's NOT how fast one shoots but how long the shutter is opened for that's missing the PWM pulse(s) 



HKJ said:


> It would be better to adjust the aperture (It requires an SLR camera for a decent range of apertures), or use a gray filter.


 
HKJ has got the right idea - the thing to do is to slow down the shutter speed so the shutter stays open longer - allowing more PWM pulses through to allow the "averaging".

So I used a smaller aperture on the my beamshot digicam - it will only allow me stop the aperture down to f/8 - but that is 2 stops down from the 1/800 sec shot that missed the pulse - that will slow the shutter speed down by 4x thus on the -2 stops underexposed shot a shutter speed of 1/200sec - which should allow 4x the number of PWM pulses through, so has a better chance of "averaging" the A10 PWM beam .....








so the A10 beam shows more of its side-spill - however despite being exactly the same exposure shots (1) and (2) do differ slightly (2) showing the A10 a bit brighter than (1) - so the shutter speed is still too fast (2) is letting through more bright PWM pulses than (1).

Using my dSLR - allows me to set my aperture much smaller down to f/29 which is almost 4 stops lower - _BUT_ my dSLR's sensitivity is ISO200 minimum, compared to my Canon A610 beamshot digicam's ISO50 - a 2 stops difference - so I am gaining almost 2 stops - which should slow the shutter speed down to about 1/50 sec. As it is, the resultant beamshots managed 1/20 sec - which should allow enough PWM pulses through for better "averaging" - I took two shots to be sure -








thankfully these two shots look about the same - so the "averaging" is working well enough so this set is probably pretty representative of the comparison relative brightness.


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## powernoodle (Jan 30, 2009)

Any guess about runtime on 2xRCR123?


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## UnknownVT (Jan 30, 2009)

powernoodle said:


> Any guess about runtime on 2xRCR123?


 
I can't do meaningful runtimes - 

FWIW I took current draw readings at the tailcap -

2x 3.6V rechargeable Li-Ion RCR123 freshly charged (but not "hot off the charger") starting open-circuit voltages 4.10V and 4.08V
current draw = 1.29A
ending o-c voltages 4.08V and 4.04V

Compare to 2 primary CR123A -
starting o-c voltages 2.99V and 2.99V
current draw = 1.85-1.86A
ending o-c voltages 2.94V and 2.95V

Just out of interest I also did 4x primary CR123A
using those 2 primary CR123A plus two more with starting o-c voltages of 3.04V and 3.04V
Current draw = 0.83-0.86A

This seems to indicate that the Tiablo ACE is regulated, since higher battery voltages draws lower current.

Assuming a constant current draw (pretty unlikely) and these were 800mAh RCR123 then the _*Guesstimated*_ runtime for 2x 800mAh RCR123 would be in the region of 30-37 minutes?


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## picard (Jan 31, 2009)

Does the ACE have decent side spill ?

The Raidspear has almost no side spill light therefore it isn't practical for medium distance illumination.


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## RGB_LED (Feb 1, 2009)

UnknownVT, thanks for posting this review: it's just about convinced me to pick it up since I've been trying to to decide between the Tiable ACE and the DBS MC-E.



PhantomPhoton said:


> ...Cant wait to see a shootout of the MCE lights. DBS, Sniper, Jetbeam, Lumapower, and this Tiablo...


Ditto... 
Also, there was a comment that using 1x18650 results in flickering... Is this consistent? Does it matter whether it is protected and / or brand? Would also appreciate anyone posting runtimes for 18650...


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## alohaluau (Feb 1, 2009)

RGB_LED said:


> UnknownVT, thanks for posting this review: it's just about convinced me to pick it up since I've been trying to to decide between the Tiable ACE and the DBS MC-E.
> 
> Ditto...
> Also, there was a comment that using 1x18650 results in flickering... Is this consistent? Does it matter whether it is protected and / or brand? Would also appreciate anyone posting runtimes for 18650...



I've have the Tiablo A9 and have been very happy with it, so going with the A10 was the logical option , so far apart from the initial hiccup everything is going well.

I have ordered some 18650 batteries from two sources; Ultrafire cheapies from DX and a couple from Solarforce, will test them with my ACE module once it arrives and post here.

Cheers,
Luau


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## Long RunTime (Feb 1, 2009)

Nice review as always. Thanks Vincent.:thumbsup:


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## Swedpat (Feb 1, 2009)

When I look at the beamshots it seems that the difference of brightness is much larger than what is measured by http://www.light-reviews.com.
There the spillbeam is claimed as ca 50% higher with ACE than A10. The beamshots shows a much bigger difference than that. 
Actually I think as well total output and beamprofile of ACE is very similar to the beamprofile of my Fenix 4E20: A quite wide and bright hotspot and a very bright spill. 

Regards, Patric


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## copperfox (Feb 1, 2009)

Any artifacts in the beam, like the dark "+"??


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## UnknownVT (Feb 1, 2009)

copperfox said:


> Any artifacts in the beam, like the dark "+"??


 
Not in the default screwed down (tightest) position. 
But if the head is screwed out to about 1/2 turn a hint of the central dark + is seen; by 1 full turn the + is quite clear; with about 1 1/2 turn being the "optimum" to see the dark +


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## FLT MEDIC (Feb 1, 2009)

UnknownVT said:


> I can't do meaningful runtimes -
> 
> FWIW I took current draw readings at the tailcap -
> 
> ...


 
Many thanks for the detailed info and pics, much appreciated! :twothumbs


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## brightnorm (Mar 15, 2009)

I was considering the ACE when I remembered my Wolfeyes Storm. At a claimed 780 lumens it is more powerful than the ACE and much shorter at only 6". Its relatively large diameter accommodates 3x18650 batteries in its own built-in charger. As described in this review it puts out "a massive amount of light with excellent regulation"

http://www.light-reviews.com/we_storm/

I probably won't order the ACE but I may consider the TK40 if it is well-reviewed.

Brightnorm


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## alohaluau (Mar 15, 2009)

My ACE upgrade has finally arrived :twothumbs, tried in 2x 18650 configuration with the extension tube, single forward clicky, it's BRIGHT!!! :wow:
Unfortunately it's only 2pm, so there's a few hours before nightfall, then I'll take the ACE out into the woods and have a play around and test out its full potential in the dark... :thumbsup: YAY!

The Ultrafire and Solarforce branded 18650 works with it so far, don't have any way to measure the run time except by timing it with my watch, I guess...

A very happy chappy signing off.

Cheers,
Luau


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Mar 23, 2009)

How does this thing compare to the M6 HOLA? Is it even close?

I sold my M6 almost 2 years ago in anticipation of the Optimus (which never came) and have been itching to get handheld 500+ lumens ever since!


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## NWdude83 (Nov 21, 2009)

Would the Tiablo ACE be comparible to the Jet Beam M1X?


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## axe123 (Jul 10, 2010)

I have puchased tiablo ace-g and i can say i am disappointed. I have ordered a Creeled 800lm flash for 20$ and you cant even comnpare the light. Creeled is MUCH MUCH better than tiablo (Tiablo is and original one, bought from Kit-tronics). I have some questions. IS the head of tiablo ace-g the same as of tiablo a10? I think the rough head gives much less light than the smooth one. Is there a possibility to order an A10 head and place it on my Ace-g ? Have anybody tried it ?


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