# How do you stipple a reflector?



## socom1970 (Mar 17, 2005)

Does anyone know how to stipple (orange peel finish) a reflector?


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## TornadoKat (Mar 18, 2005)

I saw one a guy did once before I was "into" flashlights... if I saw something like that these days I would ask a lot of questions.... anyway, he said he bead-blasted the reflector, which was polished steel. Then, since the shininess was ruined by the bead-blasting, he painted it with some special chrome-looking high temperature paint.

I imagine most reflectors would never survive what he did though. I've thought about this question myself as I have several nice lights with good throw, but a sucky pattern from the smooth reflector surface. For example, I bet a lot of people could turn a 4d Maglite into a great light without spending much money by using an HPR53 bulb and texturing the reflector. Now that I think about it, someone must sell replacement stippled reflectors for Mags... hmmmmmmmm.


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## litho123 (Mar 18, 2005)

I had a talk with one of the Carley Lamp, Inc. salesfolks some time ago and found out that the stippling is done to the surface of the reflector itself before the coating is applied. Stippling used to be popular until the orange peel finishes came along. The OP coatings allow for finer texturing than the Lightest Stippling.

I had a few reflectors done in a Light Stipple and it compared to the Heavy Orange Peel finish.


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## sween1911 (Mar 18, 2005)

Do a search for "sputtering" too. That's mainly in the context of using clear gloss spray paint on stock plastic reflectors to eliminate artifacts in the beam. I did that on my 2C Mag and it works pretty well.


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## Owen (Mar 18, 2005)

You might do a search for username "darkzero" for "reflectors" and/or "stippled, stippling" something like that. I have some of his reflectors for Maglite mods, and they are great.


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## Codeman (Mar 18, 2005)

Krylon Crystal Clear Acrylic Gloss P/N 1301 seems to be most folk's choice.

Try looking here for some great help from lambda & darkzero.


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## TornadoKat (Mar 18, 2005)

sputtering... that's what they call it huh? I thought about a clear spray but worried that a bulb from a hotter light would heat up the reflector, or the coating directly, after an extended use and smoke it.

BTW I saw a light in Dollar Tree the other day and had to try one. It takes 4AA that drop in a square pattern (no holder) and has a faceted reflector. I tossed an HPR53 bulb in there and it put out a really bright fairly smooth spot... for about 5 minutes... that's when the reflector melted... LOL. It would have been awesome if the reflector handled the heat.


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## beezaur (Mar 18, 2005)

As for the post-texturing phase, maybe you could apply a metal reflective surface.

Others surely know more about it than me, but I think you could do more or less the same thing that is done to first-surface telescope reflectors.

I believe the procedure more or less goes like this: get or make a vacuum chamber, and rig an aluminum heating element at some point inside. You put the object to be "silvered" in your chamber, then suck all the air out and turn on your heating element.

Since there is no air, the hot aluminum will not oxidize. Instead, according to Boltzmann (?) theory, some metal atoms will go flying off the element due to thermal velocity; the heat "evaporates" the metal off the element at high speed.

Some of these atoms splat against the thing you are silvering, and eventually a shiny surface develops. I was under the impression -- this comes from a conversation I had about astronomy several years ago -- that nothing had to be polished afterwards.

I would expect that you would have to provide a coating of some sort over it, but I know absolutely nothing about optical coatings. Maybe a build-your-own-telescope book would explain this. I know a lot of people make their own mirrors from glass blanks. I also know that different metals are used for different targeted wavelengths. Gold is used for IR, I think.

Scott


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## Xenon (Mar 21, 2005)

Today I just spray painting a Mag 6D reflector with a Clear Acrylic Spray Paint and managed to achieve a rather satifactory orange peel (LOP), I believed if I continue with a few more coats, I may achieve a MOP.

The hot spot of my 6D definetly have a mark improvement over the original reflector. Smooth round hot spot! But the opening of the stock plastic reflector is a tad too big causing some minor round ripple on the beam.

The aluminium coating on the plastic reflector is VERY soft, even using a camel brush will cause multiple scratches to the reflector. Better to blow the dust off
with a blower to prepare the surface for spray painting.

The Clear Acrylic Paint I got is from this company bosny.com. But website doesn't show this item.


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## aedavis (Nov 2, 2005)

*Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

I have two reflectors that I want to add an orange peel type texture to in order to smooth out the beam. I have searched and searched and haven't found what people were using to do this. I suspect that this information got lost when the forum changed over to the new format, but I could just be looking in the wrong place too.

Can anyone enlighten me or point me to a thread that discusses this?

Thank you,

Allan Davis


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## Sigman (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Here's a quote from a very helpful member:
_
Sputtered reflectors:_

_I purchased a spray can of clear acrylic from Home Depot; the kind used to put a coating on furniture. My basement is very dry, so I did the coatings there. I laid all of my reflectors on newspaper and held the can about 24 inches above the reflectors. I would spray for just 1-2 seconds to allow a fine mist to settle on the surface (too much will cause drips and ruin the reflector). I would let it dry over night, then repeat the same process two or three more times depending on how textured I wanted it. The acrylic beads up more with each successive application. For a larger reflector you might only want one or two coats. I noticed some loss of light from the texturing probably because the acrylic is clear rather than reflective._


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## Trashman (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

I could be wrong here, but isn't enamel the better choice to hold up under heat and acrylic the better one for cold?


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## Hondo (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

I read a second hand summary of this also, and cannot credit the original member who devised, and named, this "sputtering" process. I used Krylon clear gloss from K-mart, and likewise sprayed from a distance, rotating the reflector to get even distribution. The finish is essentially all what you would call overspray for conventional work. I tried it with about 3 or 4 coats of this "frost" like finish, and it seemed much better (Krylon can be resprayed in this fashion within a matter of minutes, by the way). Then I did as I had read and applied one last light coat up close like you are going for a gloss. This causes the "frost" to come together somewhat and smooth out into what I would really call a true orange peel effect, which I think is the ultimate goal. Not sure it was a lot better than just leaving it frosty, but should be less "lossy" of intensity. A big improvement in sidespill intensity with almost no harshness, and way less loss of total output than any type of lense covers/tapes I have tried, although I don't have the venerable Writeright to try. Also, the center hotspot is still very much present, just not as stark a contrast as before. Worth the few bucks for a can of clear Krylon, and depending on the reflector material, likely reversible/re-doable with a paint or laquer thinner wipe down - be careful with laquer thinner on plastic! BTW, Krylon is an acrylic, and I have no idea about the temperature sensitivity, and the light I did is no challenge for such a thing, so if you are doing it to a real "hot" light, maybe someone else can add to that aspect. Good luck!


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## Hondo (Nov 3, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Here is what I worked from, posted by Illuminated:


*Re: River Rock headlamp from Target- review* 
Lambda (Kevin) I believe was the first to do it. try a search using the word "sputtered" or "sputtering" and you should find several post on the subject.

I have done this many times and have become pretty good at it with practice. Lambda uses Krylon Clear Acrylic (I think...), but I've had excellent success using some high heat clear engine enamel. I once used some regular house brand clear acrylic and it didn't work so well. Almost always crazed after a short time - and was much less forgiving if I needed to apply any subsequent coats.

What I've learned is this - hold the can at least 14-18 inches from the reflector and very quickly (and briefly) depress the nozzle. You don't want fine spray - you're after the larger droplets to ahceive good texture. I suggest practicing on some junk reflectors first to develop a technique that works for you.

Rotate the reflector 90-degrees each time and repeat for the rest of the coating.

I like to apply mine a little "dry" for the first coat (think almost "overspray"), then after a few minutes of drying time, I apply a slightly wetter coat which smoothes everything together well and restores the reflector's very shiny appearance. Without the "wet" second coat - the reflector looks kind of dull (like overspray). After the second coat - the reflector is shiny again - but you can now see the texture. Looks very similar to the Surefire textured reflectors, though not exactly.

Initial milky clouding often times occurs if humidity is high (like here in Ohio), but it usually clears up during the drying process. I've taken to placing the reflectors under a 20W halogen desk lamp positioned about 1-2 inches above to speed the curing process. YMMV, though...

I'm no expert on doing this - but this is just what I've found works for me. I still screw one up every now and again, but I've had many more successes than failures.

Hope this helps - John


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## Illuminated (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

I've come to love Lambda's "sputtering" technique. It's the best inexpensive fix for less-than-ideal beams that need some smoothing, and the losses are not that much - a fair trade off for a more useful beam IMO.

I've done dozens of Mag reflectors as well as others, including the River Rock 2AAA Headlamp, and it has worked well for me. Often times makes the difference between using or not using a given flashlight - especially the more inexpensive ones.

It will not make every beam perfect, but the improvements are usually quite pleasing.

I hope others can benefit from this technique. Thanks again to Lambda (Kevin) for teaching us this trick.

John


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## aedavis (Nov 5, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Thanks everyone for your input. I bought a can of Duplicolor High Heat Clear Engine Enamel at Checker Auto yesterday and textured 3 reflectors, one off a Dorcy handheld rechargeable spotlight, one a factory Tigerlight LA, and an SL-20X LA. The results were great.

Thanks again,

Allan


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## Sigman (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Could you give us a "brief" on your method as compared to any of the one's posted here? If you were satisfied, then maybe we can learn a little more and either use your method or "morph" it into our own...


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## aedavis (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

I did basically what has been described here already. I held the can about 20" above the part and depressed the button only enough to get it to 'spit' out globs of the enamel to get the heavier texture I wanted. If I wanted less texture, I just pushed the button a little further to even out the spray.

After getting the texture I wanted, I recoated it with the can about 15" away with a light quick coat to get a glossy (but textured) finish.

Allan


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## cratz2 (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

I have two reflectors that Nikon sputtered and I've probably done 20 or more. My technique gives more throw, but his has a smoother beam and gives a bigger hotspot. I like them both for different reasons. I don't have a direct link to a post I made comparing them, but I'll post it here tonight. 

I think most techniques are similar, but it never hurts to read it done using different words. Might make something 'click' that didn't before.


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## cratz2 (Nov 7, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Here's my post describing both my method and Nikon's method (which I quoted him on)... hope it helps. HIGHLY recommended. The effect is so good on most incandescent's I pretty much sputter reflectors immediately now days when buying a new cheap incandescent.


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## Ivanhoe (Nov 8, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*



cratz2 said:


> Here's my post describing both my method and Nikon's method (which I quoted him on)... hope it helps. HIGHLY recommended. The effect is so good on most incandescent's I pretty much sputter reflectors immediately now days when buying a new cheap incandescent.



no fair - my browser doesn't support invisible ink! 
sorry for the wisecrack, no linky.


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## Sigman (Nov 8, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*



Ivanhoe said:


> no fair - my browser doesn't support invisible ink!
> sorry for the wisecrack, no linky.


Are you shining your UV light at the screen?


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## justsomeguy (Nov 8, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Hi Y'All,

I have used the Sputtering method myself. In my case, it was "hit or miss".

I have found a fool proof method.

Go out and find an automotive machine shop that has a Glass Bead shooting housing. Just tell them the truth about what you are seeking. They will try to make the dream come true.

Cheap too..................

S


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## Ivanhoe (Nov 8, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*



Sigman said:


> Are you shining your UV light at the screen?



no, but.... I tried my secret decoder ring and all it says is "Buy more ovaltine"


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## cratz2 (Nov 8, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Well, I just tried _my_ secret decoder ring and I found this link: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/73615


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## Sigman (Nov 8, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*



cratz2 said:


> Well, I just tried _my_ secret decoder ring and I found this link: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/73615


...specifically post #13! Thanks!


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## Nasty (Nov 8, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

I tried the sputtering...lost my throw. Makes a nice flood, but that's its. Anybody got a spare regular Mag reflector they don't need?


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## cratz2 (Nov 9, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Yes, any sputtered or textured reflector will trade some throw for a better beam pattern and a larger hotspot. I have a 3D Mag with a TV1L and a 2D (on 3 Cs) with either a TV1L or TV1K so I've had the chance to compare sputtered to smooth, esp outdoors in open areas. When shining across a field, I think it's quicker to get full coverage with a textured reflector. Yes, with a sputtered reflector you can't light things up at extraordinary distances, but it still has very decent throw.


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## Ivanhoe (Nov 9, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Thanks for the link cratz2!


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## ktronik (Dec 9, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

acrylic is good but enamel ROCKS!!! :rock: SO frosty!! VERY smooth, less droplety that acrylic...

I used 'clear car enamel AU$2.99... WOW


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## bjn70 (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Here is another option- headed the other direction...

While I was researching sputtering, I ran across information on acrylite lenses. These are a tiny bit frosted, and diffuse the beam that way. IIRC there is also information on flashlightreviews.com regarding different diffusion materials that you can apply to the front of the stock Mag lens.

I used the acrylite lenses on my modded mags with KPR112 bulbs. These bulbs seem to have filaments that cause nasty artifacts in the beams. The acrylite smoothed them out quite a bit but didn't make them perfect.


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## darkzero (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Krylon Crystal Clear Acrylic like what Lambda uses yields the best results assuming you get the technique down.

I prefer a sputtered lens over any type of textured lens anyday. 

I've sputtered many many reflectors and have grown old from it



:

(Pics and beamshots within the threads)
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/44931&page=1&pp=40
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/43577&page=1


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## ktronik (Dec 18, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

allways willing to learn from the pro's...

so is enamel frosted, sputtered or textured??

It seems the art is to retain the reflective properties...

is that by the way you layer it? or your proximity to the lens on the final stages??

Cheers

ktronik


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## cratz2 (Dec 20, 2005)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Hrmm... I've never used enamel at all, just acrylic.

But here are pics that might help. The first pic is of Nikon's method. The second pic is of my method though again, I'm not 100% sure how we come up with such different results. His reflectors trade more throw for a larger and smoother hotspot - basically his reflector with a KPR112, 113 or 118 is PERFECT. For use with an LED, I like my reflectors a lot more than his though.

I think the one you received from me was done using exactly 'my method. Matter of fact, the one pictured here IS the one you received. Other than a the few bits of glow paint that flaked off in shiping, are you at all happy with those results?


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## Sigman (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Closed a new thread on this subject and brought this one back to the top.


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## dw51 (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Sputtering or Texturing Reflectors*

Just wondering if anyone has used the reflective clear enamel made by Rustoleum for this? I've got a can lying around and may give it a shot.


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## Kentuckian (Jun 22, 2007)

*Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

I would like to stipple the reflector in my 2-D cell Mag-Lites reflector for a smoother beam once I put an LED conversion in it. Is there a way to do this? If not I'll get one from Malkoff but if I can save a few bucks why not.


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## qip (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

better off buying one from malkoff because you have to spend the money anyway for the spray might as well buy the reflector but remember if you want to keep the "cam" notify him because he will usually cut his off for his mods


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## Kentuckian (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*



qip said:


> better off buying one from malkoff because you have to spend the money anyway for the spray might as well buy the reflector but remember if you want to keep the "cam" notify him because he will usually cut his off for his mods


 
What kind of spray is it?


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## qip (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

krylon clear acrylic


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## Kentuckian (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

I can get that for around $3.00. Is it just a spray on and that's it or is there more to it?
It's not just a money thing. I just kinda like diy stuff.


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## qip (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

there are a few ways of doing it , to each his own and trial and error .... heres athread on it 

my way was fast as i was impatient to wait for it to dry as recommended but i did 5 layers in short bursts & let the mist set for 10-15 minutes for each layer and for final coat i did a soft wet layer coating , dont soak it just a fine even spray to seal it all up


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## Toohotruk (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*



qip said:


> ...my way was fast as i was impatient to wait for it to dry as recommended but i did 5 layers in short bursts & let the mist set for 10-15 minutes for each layer and for final coat i did a soft wet layer coating , dont soak it just a fine even spray to seal it all up


 
How did it work out?


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## Kentuckian (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

If I'm understaning what I'm reading Cratz's method is not really spluttering. It's just spraying a mist from 20-24 inches away. He said this gives a tighter hot spot. I think I can do this!


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## LEDcandle (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

Some used hairspray and it worked out fine... reversible too..

I used clear lacquer and sprayed from a distance.. depending on how much you put on, it will reduce throw but clean up the beam very nicely. I used it on my 27mm IMS reflector for Gladius with a Cree mod, and it produced a very nice semi-throwy, semi-floody beam.

I've changed the setup now (SSC + shiny reflector, which has great throw and still a smooth beam), but while I used the above, it was pretty alright.


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## Kentuckian (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

Hmm. We just happen to have a can of Aqua net hair spray that we use for the kids bycycle hand grips. I'll think about it. I wonder if it works as well as the clear acrylic.


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## qip (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*



Toohotruk said:


> How did it work out?




works great on my L1d, when i did one on a mag it was 50/50 i liked the intensity of the beam with stock but i was amazed that i *eliminated *the donut with the sputter 

my first go around

my second ,go to post 28 & 30 and see NO DONUT in mag flood beam


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## Kentuckian (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*

Well I just did one for my 2D Mag-Lite and mini mag. The 2D worked out decent. The mini-mag worked out great! I liked the look of yours *qip *so I did mine the same way. Now the search begins for which LED I'm gonna put in my 2D! I don't have a cam so sorry no pics.


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## Toohotruk (Jun 23, 2007)

*Re: Is there a way to stipple my Mag-Lite's factory reflector?*



qip said:


> works great on my L1d, when i did one on a mag it was 50/50 i liked the intensity of the beam with stock but i was amazed that i *eliminated *the donut with the sputter
> 
> my first go around
> 
> my second ,go to post 28 & 30 and see NO DONUT in mag flood beam


 

I'll have to try it on one of my old refectors and see how it works with my Diamond K-2 LED module. It would be very cool to lose the donut!


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## trapn1 (Dec 18, 2007)

*Can I stipple my own reflector?*

Can anyone explain or point me in the right direction or even if an end user can do this. Also which gives the most throw, smooth or OP? Thanks, George


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## nexro (Dec 18, 2007)

*Re: Can I stipple my own reflector?*

The easiest way is to spray paint it with clear acrylic spray.
The smooth reflector will give most throw 

_ (Moderator note: Links removed when threads merged - Thanks!)_

You might want to try the search feature to look for some older threads.


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## Beamshot (Dec 18, 2007)

*Re: Can I stipple my own reflector?*

A smooth Reflector will give you the most throw. 

_ (Moderator note: Link removed when threads merged - Thanks!)_


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## trapn1 (Dec 18, 2007)

*Re: Can I stipple my own reflector?*

Thanks folks, George


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## Brozneo (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: Can I stipple my own reflector?*



nexro said:


> The smooth reflector will give most throw


 
It's not all about throw! Haha :nana:


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