# Color Rendition and Tint Comparison: Cree, Rebel, GDP, Nichia



## selfbuilt (Mar 26, 2009)

There is always a lot of discussion here on the relative color rendition quality of various LED emitter types (and the specific color temperature/tints within those models). I typically like sticking with objective test data that I can measure in a reliable way, but I thought I would try my hand at doing a relative subjective comparison between emitters and tints. 

It is very hard to capture subjective visual impressions with a camera, but I've come up with the following method to try and facilitate the presentation:

For samples, I have picked lights with what I consider representative tints and emitters. Most of these are not specific known tint bins, but are based on my relative visual impressions compared to other lights in my collection (see Addendum for my tint bin estimates).
I've chosen as my test objects common colorful items a flashaholic may have on hand (including various common battery types, typical office supplies, and a few other familiar items . 
Since the lights all differ in beam profiles, I've chosen to do a ceiling bounce comparison in a closet with white walls and ceiling, with my camera mounted on flexible portable tripod.
I've picked lights that can operate at relatively similar outputs, and equalized the exact output as close as possible on my camera (Canon Powershot S5). Specifically, I've set the white balance to daylight, locked the aperture at f2.7, and varied the shutter speed to capture equivalent overall exposures using my camera's built-in histogram feature (I manually set the shutter speed to generate as close to a perfectly centered histogram as possible for each light, thus equalizing the overall exposure).
For more details on the actual lights used, and my estimate of tint bin, see the Addendum at the end of this post
*Click on the individual pics to bring up full-sized images - works best if your browser supports multiple tabs, so that you can easily switch between tabs and see the pics in a stationary way.*



































*Again, click on the individual pics to bring up full-sized images*.

*Combination Comparisons:*

To help you compare tints at a glance, below is an animated gif showing one "representative" tint for each of the four emitter types. Note the total colors had to be reduced to 256 for the GIF format, so you will see some hatching. I also had to reduce the overall dimensions, to keep the final file size down.

*Animated GIF of the four emitter types:*






I will leave it to you to draw your own conclusions about relative CRI (color rendition index) of the various emitters in this test. 

To be perfectly honest, personally I don't find that there's a huge difference among the various emitter samples. I think a lot of it really comes down to tint differences (which are great enough to obscure subjective color impressions). To help show you what I mean, here are the 6 Cree tints shown in an animated gif. 

*Animated Gif of the six Cree tint samples (from cool to warm):*





I don't know about you, but I find the reds and browns show up a bit better on the "warmer" tint Crees. The cooler tint Crees tend to look "whiter", and are better for distinguishing the blue and blacks. The differences within an emitter class thus seem greater to me than between these emitter brands. :shrug:

*Bottom Line :*

Note that I am not making any claims as to the scientific validity of my testing method above - I'm just trying to find a way to easily compare lights at a common overall exposure and removing any beam pattern effects. The specific settings of your graphics card and monitor will make a huge difference in how these images appear. Also note that the "daylight" white balance setting can be highly variable from one camera to the next, which would skew the results. So there are many possible confounds here - this is just meant to be an approximate comparison.

_But at the end of the day, I don't really see a noticeable color rendition difference between any of these particular emitters._ Subjectively, I am far more influenced by relative color tint and temperature differences, and I think there would have to be a pretty significant CRI difference for me to really notice it in use. :shrug: Of course, I hope that will change as newer LED emitters come out with significantly improved CRIs (e.g. I haven't tested the new Seoul "natural white" 4000K yet, or the new K2s). But since all the emitters here typically have a CRI >70 (with incans being ~100 CRI), I am not really expecting huge subjective improvements. But YMMV, and I welcome any observations you might have on the pics above.

Personally, I would just go with whatever tint and beam pattern you most prefer for a given task. For example, I personally like a premium to slightly warm "cool white" LED for general use. Outdoors, I like the slightly warm "cool white" tints for greens/browns - but don't like going as far as the "neutral white" Cree 5A tints. And my wife likes her cool tint Fenix L2T V2 Rebel - she uses it every morning to help her pick out matching black socks in her sock drawer (trust me, you can't do that with my warm-tinted lights). :laughing:

Hope you found the pics useful! :wave:

*UPDATE: *In case you are curious about the terms used here, please check out the CPF Welcome Mat for general background on tint and color temperature, among a great many other things.

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*UPDATE: *although I didn't do outdoor shots for this comparison, I have previously compared the Cree neutral-white Fenix TK20 (likely 5A tint bin) to the standard Cree cool-white Fenix L2D (likely WD tint bin) here:







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*Addendum:*

In case you are curious, here are the actual lights I used, with my estimate of the tint bin:

Crees (from top to bottom above):
Zebralight H50 (cool white, cool bluish tint - I'd estimate WA/WB bin)
JetBeam Jet-I PRO IBS (cool white, cool purplish tint - I'd estimate WM bin)
Nitecore Defender Infinity (cool white, very premium white tint - I'd estimate WC bin)
Fenix L1D (cool white, warm yellowish tint - I'd estimate WD/WG bin)
Olight M20 (cool white, very warm yellow-greenish tint - confirmed WH bin)
Fenix TK20 (neutral white, likely 5A bin)
Rebels:
Fenix L1T V2 (cool white RB080, cool bluish tint - I'd estimate Y0 bin)
Fenix L1D (cool white RB100, warm yellowish tint - I'd estimate VN/UN bin)
GDP:
Nitecore D10 (cool white, overall yellowish tint but slight bluish corona)
Nichia:
AltusLumen PAD-L (cool white 0.5W, new emitters with premium white with slightly warm yellowish tint)

For help understanding the tint bin codes, CPF user DFiorentino has compiled graphs for many of the major emitters here.


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## OceanView (Mar 26, 2009)

Wow, great job putting this all together! Thanks! :twothumbs


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## Woods Walker (Mar 26, 2009)

Nice job. Like the warm tint shots.


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## Federal LG (Mar 27, 2009)

Great comparison selfbuilt! Thanks for posting it.

I prefer those Cree neutral white 5A tint. Like my Fenix TK20!


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## NairB (Mar 27, 2009)

What a fantastic post.

I am a newbie and reading through the forum regarding all the different tints, this post has let me seen easily what you have all been discussing regarding the tints.

I can't decide which I prefer looking at the cool whites (cool) or the warm (WH)....??

I think the cool wins for me


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## Haz (Mar 27, 2009)

Thanks for another great post. I like this very much and will be useful in helping me decide my next purchase


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## selfbuilt (Mar 27, 2009)

Glad you are enjoying the comparisons. 

I've just added some additional background detail with my estimate of tint bins for each of the samples. Also included is an update with an exterior shot showing the Cree cool-white (i.e. WD) vs neutral-white (i.e. 5A) from an early thread.

Cheers!


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## TooSharp (Mar 27, 2009)

Nice Review as always!!


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## NoFair (Mar 27, 2009)

Very nice review!

I strongly prefer the warm tints and love the Cree 5A ones. Works a lot better outdoors and just as well indoors IMHO.

Sverre


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## Owen (Mar 27, 2009)

Awesome comparison:thumbsup: 
That warm Rebel, and .5w Nichia look pretty nice.
All of my current user LED lights(except 5mms) have 5A Cree emitters, except for one, and that one is in a box getting shipped out to have a mod that includes a Q3 5A. 
I couldn't believe how bad all my LEDs looked in actual use compared to a Malkoff M60W(arm) when I first got one, and can hardly stand to use other types now.


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## OceanView (Mar 27, 2009)

Owen said:


> I couldn't believe how bad all my LEDs looked in actual use compared to a Malkoff M60W(arm) when I first got one, and can hardly stand to use other types now.


I know what you mean. LED light always bugged me, and not until I got my first Cree 5A tint did I really feel comfortable with how LED light looks. But primarily, I think it's just a preference thing. 

I know that the neutral and warm tints are getting lot's of buzz now, but maybe it's mostly the folks like me, who have been dissatisfied with cool whites, who have mostly been propelling the buzz. I suspect that there are still plenty of CPFers out there who prefer how cool whites look to their eyes. Plus, they're still the most efficient, and for lumen junkies, cool whites are still the way to go, and visually, cool white does appear brighter.

Once the warm/neutral tint boom settles down, I wonder what the mix of sales of Gene's cool versus warm Malkoff drop-ins becomes going forward? I wouldn't be surprised if cool whites win out over the long term.


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## clg0159 (Mar 27, 2009)

Nice post! Thanks for taking the time to do the comparison:thumbsup: I really like the tint on that AltusLumen PAD-L. A truly interesting new light!


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## PsychoBunny (Mar 27, 2009)

Thats excellent!!

This should be a sticky! :twothumbs


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## DavesKam (Mar 27, 2009)

It's great :twothumbs. Thanks Selfbuilt!


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## McGizmo (Mar 27, 2009)

Selfbuilt,
Great work! :thumbsup: I suspect in most cases and provided the CRIa of the LED is perhaps 70 or above, there is enough information available for color recognition and only in some problem colors (purples for instance) will the differences between light sources be obvious. I am not sure that high CRI itself will ever become a big criteria or significant goal in most light design parameters. It seems that color temperature and tint alone will be the deciding factors in most cases. Should you find yourself doing more analysis of color, I highly recommend you consider one of the color checker cards. They make a very informative target and one that others can compare to your images if they have a card as well.


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## selfbuilt (Mar 27, 2009)

clg0159 said:


> Nice post! Thanks for taking the time to do the comparison:thumbsup: I really like the tint on that AltusLumen PAD-L. A truly interesting new light!


Agreed - although the PAD-L looks slightly warm to my eyes, the camera seems to capture it as one of the most neutrally-white (?) of all the "cool white" series. Of course, that could just be the bias of my camera's daylight white balance, or my own monitor/graphics card settings ... but I personally like the PAD-L's tint and floody beam profile.



McGizmo said:


> Selfbuilt,
> Great work! :thumbsup: I suspect in most cases and provided the CRIa of the LED is perhaps 70 or above, there is enough information available for color recognition and only in some problem colors (purples for instance) will the differences between light sources be obvious. I am not sure that high CRI itself will ever become a big criteria or significant goal in most light design parameters. It seems that color temperature and tint alone will be the deciding factors in most cases. Should you find yourself doing more analysis of color, I highly recommend you consider one of the color checker cards. They make a very informative target and one that others can compare to your images if they have a card as well.


Thanks for the comments McGizmo. I really appreciate you offering your perspective, given your extensive experience in building lights with various emitters. And I think you are bang on with your assessment. 

Good tip on the color checker card. The problem with this sort of random object analysis (aside from lacking a proper color distribution, of course) is that I'll never be able to replicate it without redoing all the lights again. :laughing: I'll see if I can pick a card up at a local photographic supply store ... it will definitely come in handy for any future comparisons.

BTW, my intent here was somewhat "proof-of-concept" - to see if the testing and presentation method has value. The ceiling bounce and camera exposure equalization seems have worked fairly well ... but I'd appreciate any and all input from users on how to improve the testing regimen.


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## Cheapskate (Mar 27, 2009)

selfbuilt said:


> Good tip on the color checker card. The problem with this sort of random object analysis (aside from lacking a proper color distribution, of course) is that I'll never be able to replicate it without redoing all the lights again. :laughing: I'll see if I can pick a card up at a local photographic supply store ... it will definitely come in handy for any future comparisons.



Paint brochures or catalogues are free and can provide a wide gamut of colours.


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## NonSenCe (Mar 27, 2009)

WOW!

yeah.. i think that sums it up. 

Thanks for this review!


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## Sean (Mar 27, 2009)

Great work! :twothumbs


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## divine (Mar 27, 2009)

Great work, Selfbuilt.

There are some holes to fill in on that list. K2 being one. In my experience, the K2's give a pretty good rendering.


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## HighLumens (Mar 28, 2009)

thanks for this review!!!


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## frosty (Mar 28, 2009)

Very informative. Thanks.


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## STi (Mar 28, 2009)

Very nice! I Like the White tints and don't use my warmer lights much.


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## BigBluefish (Mar 28, 2009)

Another great post, which needs to be made a sticky. 

The cool white tints, sometimes with hints of purple and blue, are the only things that bug me about LEDs. I'm going to pick up an INOVA T1 which I believe has a K2 emitter, which has a very warm tint and see how I like that for outdoor use (camping/hiking),

Thanks again.


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## chaoss (Mar 30, 2009)

For a very good posting of various tints.


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## bodhran (Mar 30, 2009)

You sure can learn alot from a few pics. Thank you for taking the time and helping a noob like me. :thumbsup:


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## selfbuilt (Mar 31, 2009)

Glad you are enjoying the pics - they do seem to represent what I see subjectively by eye fairly well.

Having played with the PAD-L (new Nichias) a bit during Earth Hour this weekend, I've come to appreciate the pics above being accurate (i.e. very "premium" cool white tint). Subjectively, the output seemed slightly warm to my eyes when examining it up close (i.e. in a small room). But when ceiling-bouncing over a wider area, I find it looks much like the pic above. I suspect there's yellow-blue tint variation across the individual emitter beams - i.e. cooler in the center, warmer in the spill (something like the reverse of GDP). This was subjectively giving me a slightly warm tint up close and a slightly cool tint off a ceiling bounce. It was just hard to tell originally due to multi-emitter setup in the PAD-L.

And good point about the modern K2 emitters, unfortunately I don't have one to test.


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## Martin SH (Mar 31, 2009)

Thanks very much for the useful review. Its a subject that I am very interested in.

After reading a lot about warm tints on the forum I purchased a Malkoff M60LW(arm). and I have to say I personally dislike the tint. I am a photographer by profession, so colour (UK) balance is something I strive to get right. When compared to my Malkoff M60 the difference is marked, yellow and drab.

I realise that many people have been into flash lights for a long time and remember incandescents, but I have to say that I don't fully understand why overly warm tints are so popular. I may be missing something about the science but I fail to see why a warm tint should render colours better or be more piecing? I know the French used very warm headlights on their cars because it was perceived to be better in fog and mist, but this seems to be dying out now.

Very useful thread should be sticky!

Martin


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## kaichu dento (Mar 31, 2009)

I was looking at the snow on some boulders here the other day and the sun was shining on them, giving a very warm glow. There were also areas of shade, which of course looked quite cool. 

Conversations regarding incans often bring in the idea that natural light is made by the sun, which is warmly tinted, and therefore incans will be best, but it is so easy to see for oneself that areas shaded from the sun, or under moonlight, are not warmly tinted.

Just as natural light has a wide range of variances, so will peoples tastes in which they prefer. I had no thoughts of tint when I first came here to find one perfect light, but soon found myself wanting nothing but warm tints. Except a problem arose when I realized I had a few cool tinted lights that I really liked.

Now it has become clear, at least for myself, that I like a good range of tints, generally within the range of what we might see in nature with it's cool and warm tints, and all the way too the 'overly' warm incan tints as well. My point? Simply that it can be frustrating trying to match natural light with one single light source, and as such, we may as well choose tints the way we choose food, friends and flashlights; to each his own.


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## Brizzler (Mar 31, 2009)

Martin SH said:


> ...
> After reading a lot about warm tints on the forum I purchased a Malkoff M60LW(arm). and I have to say I personally dislike the tint.
> ...



If you ever want to sell the M60LW (assuming you haven't done so already) give me shout - I'm in the UK, too!


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## NoFair (Mar 31, 2009)

Martin SH said:


> Thanks very much for the useful review. Its a subject that I am very interested in.
> 
> After reading a lot about warm tints on the forum I purchased a Malkoff M60LW(arm). and I have to say I personally dislike the tint. I am a photographer by profession, so colour (UK) balance is something I strive to get right. When compared to my Malkoff M60 the difference is marked, yellow and drab.
> 
> ...


 
The big difference is outdoors at a bit longer distances where cool white leds give a washed out effect; browns and greens blend too much. With a warm tinted led the brown looks brown and green looks pretty green. 

The colour isn't more correct, but it is easier to see how the terrain looks. A bit like using tinted shades to enhance contrasts. 

Might also be how the white balance on the camera works with the different wavelengths of light issued from cool and warm tints.. 

Sverre


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## McGizmo (Mar 31, 2009)

I am of the opinion that color rendition and tint are independent of each other enough that one can make false assumptions. I believe good color rendition requires the presence of a relatively full spectrum of light. Obvious tint can be the result of a full spectrum at a specific color temperature or it can be the result of a spike in the spectrum and even significant deficiencies in other bands of the spectrum. Our eyes integrate all available light reaching them and do not perceive a spectral distribution or differentiation. 

I.E. on a white wall, you may have an obvious "yellow" light source. It might be a narrow band of yellow light such as from a yellow LED or it may be a very warm source of incandescent light. When these two sources are reflected off of a blue object, the results will be quite different in regards to the rendition of "blue".

Although incandescent sources may be weak in the blue range, relative to sunlight, they do produces some light in those bands. A LED source of similar color temperature likely produces much more blue light but is deficient, relative to the incandescent, when it comes to some of the greens and reds. There are objects and colors that will not be rendered the same under the incandescent light as compared to the LED light. Practically speaking, I believe one needs to consider the ability of color recognition as well as color rendition. In many cases, color recognition is all that is required and for that matter, object recognition alone may be all that is required.

When it comes to tints, we all may differ in our preferences. When it comes to color rendition, we may or may not need accurate or distinguishable color identification. If good color rendition comes at the expense of other considerations or features, one must decide where the priorities lie. At this point in the stage of LED development, I believe it is fair to say that good color rendition comes at the expense of reduction in flux. Further, many of the LED manufacturers, in catering to the market demand, have focused on color temperature alone and not put any great significance in the actual color rendition properties of the LED's. Much of the binning based on color temp, such as warm, neutral and cool white is based strictly on color temperature and there is no full spectrum or color rendering ability implied; although often assumed.


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## selfbuilt (Apr 2, 2009)

McGizmo said:


> I am of the opinion that color rendition and tint are independent of each other enough that one can make false assumptions. I believe good color rendition requires the presence of a relatively full spectrum of light. Obvious tint can be the result of a full spectrum at a specific color temperature or it can be the result of a spike in the spectrum and even significant deficiencies in other bands of the spectrum. Our eyes integrate all available light reaching them and do not perceive a spectral distribution or differentiation.
> 
> I.E. on a white wall, you may have an obvious "yellow" light source. It might be a narrow band of yellow light such as from a yellow LED or it may be a very warm source of incandescent light. When these two sources are reflected off of a blue object, the results will be quite different in regards to the rendition of "blue".
> 
> ...


Very well put. :thumbsup:

I don't want to hotlink to anyone else's images, but for those interested in actual spectrophotometer analyses of LEDs (and other sources of light), there are lots of good examples posted in The_LED_Museum's old threads:  Spectrographic charts and Part II.


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## Blindasabat (Apr 2, 2009)

The French had done studies to show that warmer tint (slightly yellow in this case) was better for car headlights, not just perceived. Glare of oncoming cars and cutting through mist was improved as well as depth perception. When the EU formed, the French studies and data were lost in the rushed mass consolidation of rules and regulations. Lost in the crowd, sadly. They were able to demonstrate real advantages in reaction time, but perception of everyone else was too hard to overcome as quickly as needed to make it into the standards. <<Edit: Oh, and the non-French car companies (German) did not want to do what French companies said to do... cost too much to change, yada, yada garbage. >>


Martin SH said:


> I know the French used very warm headlights on their cars because it was perceived to be better in fog and mist, but this seems to be dying out now.


The "Blue blocker" amber lenses in driving glasses were shown to increase contrast by 'blocking' some of the blue seen in the cool night light and from oncoming headlights. There is a visible glare reduction as well. This is backed up with research by Ray-Ban and other sunglass companies decades ago, which is why they came out with yellow and amber aviator glasses.

I don't care as much about accurate color - like the French - than I do about depth perception and contrast. In any transportation (car, plane, biking, even hiking over rough terrain) depth perception & contrast are more important than color accuracy. That is why I like warmer tints over 'pure' white tints (which still have tints when used in sunlight anyway) even though the look of cooler tints is more impressive to the neophyte bystander and even myself most of the time, until I compare them while in motion - hiking or riding through the woods on a mountain bike.

The demonstrated advantages of Neutral (Cree 3X to 4X) and mildly warm (Cree 5X, 6X), but not incan warm (7X, 8X) tints are too hard to pass up. Though 7X & 8X are still better in mist & fog.


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## kaichu dento (Apr 2, 2009)

Blindasabat said:


> The French had done studies to show that warmer tint (slightly yellow in this case) was better for car headlights, not just perceived. Glare of oncoming cars and cutting through mist was improved as well as depth perception. When the EU formed, the French studies and data were lost in the rushed mass consolidation of rules and regulations. Lost in the crowd, sadly. They were able to demonstrate real advantages in reaction time, but perception of everyone else was too hard to overcome as quickly as needed to make it into the standards. <<Edit: Oh, and the non-French car companies (German) did not want to do what French companies said to do... cost too much to change, yada, yada garbage. >>
> 
> The "Blue blocker" amber lenses in driving glasses were shown to increase contrast by 'blocking' some of the blue seen in the cool night light and from oncoming headlights. There is a visible glare reduction as well. This is backed up with research by Ray-Ban and other sunglass companies decades ago, which is why they came out with yellow and amber aviator glasses.
> 
> ...


That is a real bummer that the research got wasted but at least we know that there are people working on it, even if behind the scenes at present. It offers some hope that rules will change sometime in the near future...

Your last sentence separating tints in an easy to understand format like this really helps to visualize differences and I find myself getting more and more interested in 6x, 7x ranges. :huh:


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## saabgoblin (Apr 2, 2009)

Hello Selfbuilt, I hope that you don't mind me saying that you ROCK my friend. Thank you so much for all of the fantastic information and reviews that you post, you are truly a one of a kind!


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## Fatso (Jun 15, 2011)

Read this over 100 times and still is the best neutral/ cool comparison yet..
Great work..


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## selfbuilt (Jun 15, 2011)

Fatso said:


> Read this over 100 times and still is the best neutral/ cool comparison yet..
> Great work..


Thanks. Wow, can't believe it's been over 2 years since this thread was active - time flies. 

FYI, for those looking for a few more outdoor shots, I also did a comparison for the 4Sevens Mini tints around a year ago: 
4Sevens Mini Tint Comparison - Warm, Neutral, Cool White - BEAMSHOTS & RUNTIMES!


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## mbig (Nov 14, 2011)

selfbuilt said:


> Thanks. Wow, can't believe it's been over 2 years since this thread was active - time flies.
> 
> FYI, for those looking for a few more outdoor shots, I also did a comparison for the 4Sevens Mini tints around a year ago:
> 4Sevens Mini Tint Comparison - Warm, Neutral, Cool White - BEAMSHOTS & RUNTIMES!


Thank you and the OP for your shots. 
Really important to me.

I'm curious to know how the XM-L T6 is compared to past 'Cool Whites'. Hopefuilly a little warmer.
I hate Spooky Blue.


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## selfbuilt (Nov 14, 2011)

mbig said:


> I'm curious to know how the XM-L T6 is compared to past 'Cool Whites'. Hopefuilly a little warmer.
> I hate Spooky Blue.


As always, it is something of a lottery what you will get in "cool white", unless the manufacturer specifies a tint bin or color temperature. The XM-L T6 (which is an output bin) can come in any tint shade of cool white (also available in neutral white). Can't say I've seen too many "spooky blues" lately (maybe the occassional green meany or dusty rose, though ).

This thread revival reminds me - I have a couple of recent 4Sevens Neutral whites on my desk to compare (Q123-2 X and Preon 2). I'll be updating my original cool white reviews of those lights with new pics soon. 

Oh, and :welcome:


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## zs&tas (Nov 15, 2011)

funny someone just posted on here, i was just looking up 'googling' the GDP and read this thread two days ago lol, good work ! cant wait to see the uptodate stuff here as well, I have two greeny xp-g's but i dont notice untill i chuck another light next to them, incidently i have a comparitivly bright white xp-g side by side you would swear they are two completly different emmiters.


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