# PH50 & Maxabeam comparison



## Patriot (Oct 18, 2008)

I was intentionally careful not to title this thread "PH50 vs. Maxabeam" since that would be silly. These lights are obviously completely different beasts. My intention is just to show how very different the Polarion 50W HID and the 75W Short-arc Maxabeam are from each other. Sometimes HID's beams are loosely and innocently referred to as having "laser like" throw. Some HID's certainly have a narrow angle beam, especially the collimated portion but I personally find the difference between HID and Short-arc beams amazing. I just wanted to share with some of the new members what many of the seasoned CPFers already know. Also, the weather was very nice tonight and I just really wanted to get out and enjoy it. 


The lights...








PH50, 183 yards to tree trunk (streak of light above the tree was an aircraft)





Maxabeam, set to high, 183 yards to tree trunk (same exposure as picture above)





PH50, 168 yards to the yellow trash bucket. (Note that this was underexposed so that the Maxabeam wouldn't be too over exposed with the same exposure below.





Maxabeam, set to low, 168 yards to the yellow trash bucket. (same exposure as PH50 picture above)





Maxabeam, set to high, (same exposure as the previous two pictures)







I plan on posting additional, more interesting beamshots after another outing tomorrow evening. If all works out I'll have some 600 yard shots.


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## Lips (Oct 18, 2008)

Excellent shots Patriot



Ah, beam shot times! I love taking the beamshots - funfun- and hate doing the computer work... 



Thanks for the work! :thumbsup:




.


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## DM51 (Oct 18, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> I plan on posting additional, more interesting beamshots after another outing tomorrow evening. If all works out I'll have some 600 yard shots.


Excellent! Looking forward to the 600 yd ones.


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## Flashanator (Oct 18, 2008)

interesting comparison.

Would have loved to see a costco or Ti-Mega, as I'm familiar with those. It would give me a sense of the maxabeam.


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## DM51 (Oct 18, 2008)

Hey, who are you? There was another guy around here recently, but at least he had 500mw. LOL


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## Flashanator (Oct 18, 2008)

LOL :laughing: 

I'm the cooler Flash.


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## Patriot (Oct 18, 2008)

Flashanator said:


> interesting comparison.
> 
> Would have loved to see a costco or Ti-Mega, as I'm familiar with those. It would give me a sense of the maxabeam.




I'll keep that in mind for tomorrow night Flashanator.


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## Flashanator (Oct 18, 2008)

cool, thanks


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## Team Member (Oct 18, 2008)

Nice pics Patriot :thumbsup:

Finally I get to see the difference in size of the Maxabeam and PH50. Maxabeam seems to be not to big. At first I thought it was a huge, monsterlike thing...

Is there different models of the Maxabeam? I can´t say that I have looked to much at Maxabeam since I have been very pleased with my Polarion. 

Pleased may not be the right word :thinking: Over-excited it has to be 

I´m looking forward to those 600yard photos :naughty:


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## Flashanator (Oct 18, 2008)

the PH50 must be amazing, its stylish small size. :naughty:


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## Patriot (Oct 18, 2008)

Lips said:


> Excellent shots Patriot
> 
> 
> Ah, beam shot times! I love taking the beamshots - funfun- and hate doing the computer work...





....and you take some of the best around Lips. Your gif images are always great too. You and Lux Luthor demonstrated the value of gifs to me. I guess now that means I better post one...lol. 



You're welcome Team Member. All of the Maxabeams are the same size but they do sell differently spec'd lights.


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## karlthev (Oct 18, 2008)

Great thread and great pics!! This is an excellent representation of what the beams actually look like. What camera are you using?


Karl


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## GhostReaction (Oct 18, 2008)

Both of these are truly grail lights 
:thumbsup:

So how many seconds longer does the Maxa need before reaching full brightness?


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## karlthev (Oct 18, 2008)

The Maxa Beam "starts" instantly at high power which lasts 3 seconds (according to Peak Beam) and then drops back in output to a factory set medium or whatever you may wish to program it. I really haven't timed mine but it is a very short period at the highest level. The Polarion takes 5-10 seconds or so to reach full power--at least that's been my experience. My other HIDs are slower in reaching full output.


Karl


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 18, 2008)

Great pix!

Karl, you can program it so right toggle will turn on high for 16 seconds. 
*While light on, hold red power switch down, then rock beam switch to right and release, then release power switch. Light will go out with setting saved.*​


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## cryhavok (Oct 18, 2008)

Damn I always get a bit weak in the knees whenever I see a polarion light...

looking forward to more shots.


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## Patriot (Oct 18, 2008)

karlthev said:


> Great thread and great pics!! This is an excellent representation of what the beams actually look like. What camera are you using?
> 
> 
> Karl





Just the same cheapy Canon Power Shot S2 IS. 5MP. I no longer have the Canon SLR. I sold it a while back with plans of purchasing a Nikon D300. With things being a little shaky economy wise, I decided to hold off on that for the time being.


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## BlueBeam22 (Oct 18, 2008)

Wow Patriot this is an awesome comparison!:thumbsup: I have always been amazed by the Maxabeam. I like how the third picture captures the Maxabeam's beam in the air.

The Polarion appears to have almost the same beam pattern as the N30, but it looks nearly twice as bright. It must look amazing to shine the PH50 through a large field like that.


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## Patriot (Oct 18, 2008)

Here is a gif image of the two:






It appears that I bumped the camera tripod since the two don't perfectly match...one of my gif pet peeves...lol. I guess it's close enough to get the idea and exposures were the same in each. I'm amazed by the corona from the PH-50 and how it's even illuminating the powerline polls and lines at the upper right. Although I didn't range the pole specifically, it's about 240 yards away. I should also mention that the moon was pretty bright last night too.


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## Morepower! (Oct 18, 2008)

Awesome thread !! I would love to own both those lights. The next time you take some pics with those 2 lights would it be possible to set the focus of the Maxabeam to the same angle as the Polarion ? I'm very curious to see the difference between them on equal ground, so to speak. Thanks


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## Patriot (Oct 18, 2008)

Morepower! said:


> Awesome thread !! I would love to own both those lights. The next time you take some pics with those 2 lights would it be possible to set the focus of the Maxabeam to the same angle as the Polarion ? I'm very curious to see the difference between them on equal ground, so to speak. Thanks




I'll try to get that for you if the location suits that type of shot. Where I was last night would be best for that but I'll see what I can do for you. Fair warning though....the Maxabeam will appear kind of weak.


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## Flashanator (Oct 18, 2008)

yea id love to see the wide degree flood compared to PH50,

hope to see your costco compared to maxabeam on standard & high mode.


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## seery (Oct 18, 2008)

Great pics Patriot36. Thanks for taking the time to share them with us.

Also looking forward to the longer captures.

That PH50 puts some serious hurt downrange, damn! :twothumbs


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## Patriot (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks everyone. I'm finished with tonight's pictures and I'm processing them now. In the mean time I'll add another K3500 picture from last night. 


Same PH-50 picture as before:






K3500 on hot off the charger. (I mention this because I now believe that the light doesn't have completely flat regulation)


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## Patriot (Oct 19, 2008)

*NIGHT TWO*

Sorry about the fact that I don't have 600+ yard pics for you tonight. To make a long story short I was heading out about 20 miles from my house to a wilderness preserve when about 3/4 of the way there it occurred to me that I didn't remember packing my camera.  I almost called it quits for the evening but didn't want to let you guys down. I came back home, grabbed the camera and headed to the park instead. 

These shots are a little further than last night. The range is 291 yards. The Target is a concrete drainage wall about 4' high and 6' wide. The lights are positioned to the left of the camera on a 5' high tripod. The drainage dike that I'm standing on is about 10' high so the total light height above the flat field is close to 15'. The camera is to the right of the light tripod about 5' and is mounted on a second tripod about 3.5' high. Settings are 4" F5.0 ISO100 WB set to daylight.

Since I was asked to bring an extra light or two, I decided to take a couple others along too. The lights include, PH-50, Maxabeam, Costco HID, K3500R, & M6/1185.


I'm going to post these photos in two sets. The first set will be wide angle or about 35mm equivalent. The second set will be zoomed or about 150mm equivalent or about 2.5 x magnification. 



*Wide Shots*


Surefire M6/1185 mod (mod is discussed here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/204157)





Microfire K3500 (hot off the charger) (light set to maximum wide)





Costco HID





Polarion PH-50





Maxabeam (on high) (set full wide)





Maxabeam (on high) (set to full narrow)


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## Morepower! (Oct 19, 2008)

Excellent !! Thanks so much for the wide shot of the Maxabeam. I just wanted to get a better idea of how the Maxabeam works. It's almost unbeleivable as to how focused they are and how much light they can put on a long range target. That's pretty much what I'd expected from it set on wide, maybe even a fraction less.


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## Patriot (Oct 19, 2008)

*Set 2 Zoomed shots

*
K3500R





PH-50





Costco





Maxabeam (on low) 





Maxabeam (on high)







*Some shooting notes and observations:

*Yes, all the pictures are crooked and I didn't notice it until I got home. The tiny image in the view finder and lack of easily identifiable horizon didn't allow me to notice that I had canted the camera. It's something that I know to look for but completely forgot about it...

You'll notice that the M6/1185 is not included in the second set of pics and either is the Maxabeam wide shot. The performance was so poor with this focal setting that it seemed pointless to take the pictures. It was a case of no corona and almost nothing on the target either. The fewer pics I take while out there the easier it is to keep track of and then later process at home. It's enough work just to take the pics that I did...and post them during the same evening.

Although sometimes it doesn't look like it, I was careful to aim the hotspot of each beam at the little drainage hole on the concrete slab. I even stepped away from the camera and walked to the size 20 feet to double check if I wasn't sure. The fluid head on my tripod makes it a cinch to make very tiny adjustments. If you look at the zoomed shot of the Costco it will appear that it's aimed slightly to the right but it's an illusion created by more reflective or broader objects near the hot spot. Other lights like the K3500 or PH-50 will appear to be aimed low but this is also an illusion created by more light falling on the foreground. In each case the center of the beam was on the center of the concrete slab. 

One thing that I've learned is that that I can't get a truly accurate beamshot representation of the Maxabeam when the camera is left in the same settings that I used to take the other pictures. What happens is that the beam flares or blooms. To the naked eye this isn't the case. It appears much sharper and more like a shaft of light without lighting up objects to the side. During my next outing I'll set the exposure to capture the Maxabeam's beam as it looks to the eye and then I'll take pictures of the other lights while set to that exposure. It should be interesting although the HID's will probably appear much dimmer. 

My little camera really isn't capable of capturing these beam colors quite accurately. The tendency seems to be that the white beam of the Polarion seems to look yellow, the 1185 mod looks orange, while the Maxabeam, Costo and K3500 appear white. This is not the case in real life and the camera is making everything about 500-1000K warmer than it really is. The two white balance settings that come closest to reproducing what the eye sees are still off. The Polarion really seems to produce the best color and almost appears like sunlight....maybe just a bit warmer. The next best light was the M6/1185. The next best was the Costco followed by the Maxabeam and K3500R. In the future I might add a white balance experiment to this thread in order to help others who might be interested in doing their own HID beamshots. 


One last observation. In the zoomed PH-50 picture notice the power pole slightly above and to the right. Now compare it to all the other light shots. That pole is 407 yards away and being illuminated by the PH-50 corona. :naughty: Also, have a look at the yellow 55 gallon trash bucket about 50 yards to the left of the concrete slab. It's reflecting a fair amount of light that the K3500R and Costco don't appear to be touching.


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## Morepower! (Oct 19, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> In the future I might add a white balance experiment to this thread in order to help others who might be interested in doing their own HID beamshots.


 
Yes please !! I need all the help I can get.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 19, 2008)

I would love to see the collimating lens with various MB wide angles like that....otherwise it is nearly useless except on nearly tightest focus.

The PH-50 is very impressive the more shots I see of it.


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## Patriot (Oct 19, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> I would love to see the collimating lens with various MB wide angles like that....otherwise it is nearly useless except on nearly tightest focus.




That's pretty much how I feel about the the usefulness of wide beam.


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## Flashanator (Oct 19, 2008)

the costco seems to have alot of spill right in front of the camera.


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## karlthev (Oct 19, 2008)

Lordy Pat, what a series!! I am most impressed with your shots with a rather modest camera. I have no manual override on mine and so I have great excuses for no or crappy pics! These are great!


Lux, I really haven't done any "experimenting"--programming with e Maxa Beam although I do see there is more flexibility than light levels and focusing. In time.... I couldn't agree more that the 40 degree flood on the Maxa Beam is not the best and is more useable with the collimating lens--that which I noticed when I was at the factory this past Summer. I just wish it wasn't such an expensive accessory....:sigh:

Looking forward to more of this work....:twothumbs





Karl


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## BVH (Oct 19, 2008)

Hey Pat, enjoying your mini shoots a lot! Can you imaging what Mr. Ted Bear and Mtbkndad go thru to take all their shots on the shootouts and get them published the same night. I have a lot of respect for them doing that.

Also, i know what you mean about the center of the hotspots not always looking like they are centered on the target in the close-up shots. We go thru the same issues when doing the shootouts. In-person, they are precisely on target but the pics look different.


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## Patriot (Oct 19, 2008)

BVH said:


> Hey Pat, enjoying your mini shoots a lot! Can you imaging what Mr. Ted Bear and Mtbkndad go thru to take all their shots on the shootouts and get them published the same night. I have a lot of respect for them doing that.




Those guys are awesome with the photo management and layout. I notice that there are a lot more photos taken than what ends up actually being posted. It's always a bit of dead reckoning to get close to the exposure that you'll need. Sometimes I would take pictures of three lights, two pictures each, and the shots would looks great. Then I'd get to the Polarion or Maxabeam and the exposure was just be blown out. I'd have to adjust by a stop or two and then go back and retake the pictures of the other lights. The Maxabeam is the real trouble maker because it's hot spot is so much more intense than even the Costco. If I set the camera to capture the Maxabeam properly all the other lights are underexposed. My dad just got a new Nikon D300 and I was playing around with it on Friday. What a nicely laid out camera that is. It would makes things a lot easier if I had one for future shoots. We'll see. 

Another reason why I have so much respect for you and the others doing the shootoffs, is because it's a really a lot of work getting so many lights organized, transported, cataloged and so on. I'm guessing that I could probably handle about 10 lights on my own but beyond that I think the some of the fun would slip away...lol.


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## Patriot (Oct 19, 2008)

GhostReaction said:


> So how many seconds longer does the Maxa need before reaching full brightness?


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 19, 2008)

Jpegs, Gifs, & Videos, Oh My! Now you are throwing down some serious game. I may have to convert my home p0rno video camera for outdoor use!


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## Patriot (Oct 19, 2008)

Ok, that one did frighten me a little bit Lux


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## Morepower! (Oct 20, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> I may have to convert my home p0rno video camera for outdoor use!


 
So long as there are no Nanites involved !! I don't think I could take that.


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## dudemar (Oct 20, 2008)

Patriot36,

I know this is a really off question so please bare with me, but do cops give you any trouble for using high-power flashlights in a park at night? The parks around my neighborhood (actually most of California) have a curfew so I can't take any comparison beam shots at night. It would be nice to do it someday...


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## Flashanator (Oct 20, 2008)

Man that really sucks having a curfew. 

Wonder what the police would say with Patriot's arsenal of high powered Lights? LOL They only have low powered kiddie stuff.


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## toby_pra (Oct 20, 2008)

Very great Beamshots! :twothumbs

I love to see these reviews. Thank you!


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## DM51 (Oct 20, 2008)

That's an excellent set of longer shots you've added to the shorter-range ones. 

I don't know how it would be possible to get round that problem of the MB maxing out the white for an exposure that is OK for the PH50. It probably can't be done - the lights are just too different.

Like LuxLuthor, I would love to see the effect the collimating lens has on the MB. If it wipes out that donut on wide, it will be a very useful accessory. 

However, for total output there is no contest between the MB and the Polarion, and for anything more than a very narrow spot, the Polarion is going to be the winner.


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## Patriot (Oct 20, 2008)

dudemar said:


> Patriot36,
> 
> I know this is a really off question so please bare with me, but do cops give you any trouble for using high-power flashlights in a park at night? The parks around my neighborhood (actually most of California) have a curfew so I can't take any comparison beam shots at night. It would be nice to do it someday...




Not an off question really....but so far I've never had any police come over to ask what I was doing while at the park. I'm not sure if that's because they weren't driving by at the time or because no body called them on me...lol. That's a good question about the park curfew and I don't even know if we have one here. Since I'm not effecting or hurting anyone I've never been worried about the police happening by I suppose. I'm pretty friendly, outgoing and dress normal so the police always seem cool with me.


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## Team Member (Oct 20, 2008)

dudemar said:


> Patriot36,
> The parks around my neighborhood (actually most of California) have a curfew....



Hey, wait a minute...

You´re not kidding I guess...

But a curfew....in a park???? :thinking:



What´s wrong....?


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## Patriot (Oct 20, 2008)

DM51 said:


> I don't know how it would be possible to get round that problem of the MB maxing out the white for an exposure that is OK for the PH50. It probably can't be done - the lights are just too different.




I think you're right about that. As it was, all of the "night two" HID beams were already slightly under exposed. The mighty M6/1185 had the opposite problem to the Maxabeam in that it looked weak. 290 yards is really a lot to ask from that light though. The more I look at the "night one" photos the more I'm pleased with how accurate the exposures came out for the PH50 and K3500R. Since the PH50 as been captured accurately but the Maxabeam hasn't yet (by me) I think I'll make that my next mission. I'm going to try for Friday evening out in the pitch black preserve.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 20, 2008)

Patriot36 said:


> *290 yards is really a lot to ask from that light though. *



I like to think about distances like this in terms of football fields....imagine standing under a goal post and how far away is the other end...or two fields....or almost three!!!


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## Patriot (Oct 20, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> I like to think about distances like this in terms of football fields....imagine standing under a goal post and how far away is the other end...or two fields....or almost three!!!



I'm even more strange in that I think of the distance that an Indy car would travel in one second at top speed...2-3 seconds...lol. I'm goofy. 

Silliness aside, a football field is a great example that most can relate too pretty well. With the majority of CPFers here familiar with LED's, the distances at which HID's or short-arcs throw is hard to understand I think. I should take out the Tiablo, MRV and aspheric next time and try to capture images at the same exposure that I'm using for the HID's.


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## dudemar (Oct 20, 2008)

Team Member said:


> Hey, wait a minute...
> 
> You´re not kidding I guess...
> 
> ...



I don't mean to go off-topic, but yes, there are curfews and "closing times" in parks.:green: In Sweden I'm sure you can walk in any time, but come to California and it's a different story. Some are even gated.


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