# Looking For Replacement For Barnburner



## Bjost (Apr 10, 2009)

I would greatly appreciate any input/suggestions for a replacement for the 75 watt Barn Burner I am selling. The one hour runtime of the Barn Burner is too short for my needs.

I would look for the greatest lumen output in a light with a 2 hour minimum run time. I assume that to be an HID light but am not opposed to a LED. Adjustable beam focus would be great. If it has a fixed beam, then I would look for something in more of a flood versus a narrow beam.

I know that after using the Barn Burner, the output of any light I buy will be a disappointment. Unfortunately, I need that longer runtime for my application. 

Thanks in advance to the wealth of knowledge on this forum!!


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## karlthev (Apr 10, 2009)

How about the XeRay 35W model? As you say, in comparison to the Barn Burner, a significant decrease in output but the same form factor and increased runtime. I reallly don't know if the 35W model will go a full two hours though....:shrug:

Another option would be consider a 35 W Polarion (or 40W) if either one is currently available. While neither one will give a full two hours either AFAIK, battery replacement is a rapid process if you would buy a spare to extend runtime.


Karl


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## XeRay (Apr 10, 2009)

karlthev said:


> How about the XeRay 35W model? As you say, in comparison to the Barn Burner, a significant decrease in output but the same form factor and increased runtime. I reallly don't know if the 35W model will go a full two hours though....:shrug:


 
BarnBurner (75W) to 35 watt XeRay, only requires a ballast and bulb change, 140-150 minute run time at 35 watts.


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## StarHalo (Apr 10, 2009)

What is your application? Needing more than 8000 lumens for well over an hour, it must be something unique..


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## Bjost (Apr 13, 2009)

My application is for security at a large shut down factory complex. The light is used outside the buildings and inside the facility. The blinding Barn Burner has repelled intruders and helped apprehend a few of them. It has been a great light other than the run time. 

I even considered putting my spare battery and the internal battery on a belt pack to increase the run time. To dissipate the heat from running longer, I would have put additional heat sinks by the ballast. 

I have accepted a light with less lumen output for a longer run time is unfortunately the reality I need to deal with. The light would hopefully have an adjustable beam for a narrow blinding hot spot for deterring people and long range work, but also a flood for close interior work. 

Should I also consider any LED lights as well as HID lights for this application?? 

Thanks for your suggestions.


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## StarHalo (Apr 13, 2009)

You should definitely try the 35W model, I'd wager that's what will come closest to what you're looking for. It will only seem somewhat dimmer to the eye, and will retain the same beam profile and most of the throw that you've already become accustomed to.

You might also consider a second, smaller light for situations that don't call for full HID power. Something along the lines of a JetBeam M1X (700 lumens, user-settable mode, $145: http://www.bugoutgearusa.com/jetm1x.html) that would work well for routine tasks.

That's quite a testimonial that your Barnburner has been used as a nightly service light, in defense situations and always to the threshold of its battery life, with no issues. Nicely done Xeray :twothumbs


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## windstrings (Jul 27, 2009)

As awesome as the M1X is "LED" its no comparison to the Barnburner!... not even close at all!

The DEFT "which I don't have" is also LED and is extremely directional and is supposed to be the best for LED throw and shearing someone's eyeballs out if your trying to render them temporarily blind.. but it takes a while to get those unless you find a used one.

I too have been looking for a solution to extend the battery runtime for my Barnburner. I don't know if using LiPo batteries or adding an additional pack would do the trick or not.
We would have to "not" use the whole runtime in one session as it needs a cool down period running at those wattages.

Its indeed a challenge to find a solution to match the Barnburner.

If you don't mind the gargantua sizes, the Costco lights and similiar may be worth considering, but you don't get the smaller size reflectors, LiIon, and quality.

Here is a page to consider also...... although some of these still have to be built before they can be sold in numbers.

Here is a project BVH is working on.......


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2009)

I don't know how there could be much of a cooling issue if it can run for an hour straight (vs. 2 hours), but my first approach would be to add a second battery pack to boost capacity.

On the other hand, a 35W + using the DEFT is another feasible strategy. I have three DEFT's, and here was my review of its' performance.

Edit: Reviewing my review, especially the last two images, I forgot that there is no rival for the BB. Amazing that those back trees are 865 feet away...almost 3 football fields. I still give high marks to the DEFT in such a small 4 x AA cell package.


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## BlueBeam22 (Jul 27, 2009)

Maybe the Titanium Innovations L50 HID would suit your needs. This light is focusable from spot to flood, and adjustable from 30W to 50W. Its runtime is rated at ~140 minutes on the 30W setting, and the 50W setting will definitely give a significant increase in brightness and throw if you need it.

I own two Titanium Innovations brand HID spotlights, and I think they are excellent quality.


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## windstrings (Jul 27, 2009)

The review Lux did is enlightening. IN the absence of the other lights being on, the DEFT would show anything in a reasonable range with good clarity and plenty of illlumination.

But if your looking for that look where night is turned into day and everything close is included, its hard to compete against the sheer lumens of HID.

The L50 is the best thing going I can think of without waiting for a custom built light. Its 5.25" reflector and 15 more watts will be noticeably different than 35W with a smaller reflector. 

Problem is.. you pay dearly for that extra 15 watts in dollars but the runtime is still good with the L50.

I'm looking at the batteries right now in my Barnburner pack.

They are 18650's, made by Samsung with numbers ICR-18650-22E
SDI 622... does that mean they are 2200mah"... ... if so, this pack could be boosted quite a bit in this confined space.
There are 12 of these batteries in the pack... I haven't torn it apart enough to see how they are wired, But I can see metal strips that link them together on the ends.

They look exactly like these... color and all.....

Here are 2600mah in the same type.. that would give 18% more runtime as compared to the 2200mah.

I don't know if these 2900mah would work or not but it sounds like they are not protected.


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## BVH (Jul 27, 2009)

I'd guess maybe 4S3P? Order yourself some Panasonic 2900's and you'll be set if you can find someone to tackweld them for you. About $13.00 a cell by the time they arrive to your door.


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## StarHalo (Jul 27, 2009)

windstrings said:


> As awesome as the M1X is "LED" its no comparison to the Barnburner!... not even close at all!





StarHalo said:


> You might also consider a second, smaller light for situations that *don't call for full HID power.*



A second, less powerful light might be a good idea when carrying around a giant lighthouse beacon..


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## Patriot (Jul 27, 2009)

In perspective of the original post, he was looking for the most possible amount of light output with two hours minimum run-time. I don't think he specifically mentioned throw or efficiency so I'd probably discount aspherics or LED's running at lower levels.

Several 35W HIDs would be candidates though. The Xeray35 and L50 were mentioned. The RL-12 dive light is both compact and runs for 3 hours which I think is impressive.
https://www.magnalight.com/p-569-hid-dive-light--35-watt-hid--3200-lumens--rl-12.aspx


With regards to the extending BB run-time, li-po's are the great space savers. A pair of 4s 3500mah batteries may fit and would probably get you to an hour plus of runtime. This also sounds easier to me that building up cylindrical cells packs. Does anyone have pictures of the Xeray's battery compartment and pack connnections?


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## windstrings (Jul 27, 2009)

I would have to take "all" the wrapping off to see the true story.
I wonder if the LiPo's would pose a problem for the charger?

If the resistance is less on LiPo's it may suck more amperage from the charger?

As far as the panasonic 2900mah.. I don't think they are protected.... I keep this right by my bedside.. don't want any bombs nearby!


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## BVH (Jul 27, 2009)

You can build a PCB into the pack. They're sold separately.


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## windstrings (Jul 27, 2009)

Ok.. I took some wraps off and heres is what I found:
Note, the bottom plate is heavily wrapped in cardboard and is the circuit board that has the guts of how the wires are connected to the batteries.... 

*I don't know if this board would be friendly to LiPo batteries or not?*

I'm getting about 16.5 volts at the wire connection that goes to the light.


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## BVH (Jul 27, 2009)

With that voltage, it's a 4S3P. I'm having a bit of trouble following the tabs and I would have guessed 3S4P but the Voltage says otherwise. I would suspect the protection circuits are not in the batteries. There's probably an outboard circuit located elsewhere so the Panasonics would be no different than those cells. I don't see any balancing circuit wires or tabs right off but again, I can't see everything in the pack and I'm not a pack expert. Maybe Lux will chime in.


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## windstrings (Jul 27, 2009)

There is a little bit of residual cardboard on the contacts, but on the side of the board with the white label "LRDP730" has 3 contacts and the other end of the board only has 2.

I know very little about any of this, but it does appear that circuit board must be the protection circuit for the batteries.


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## BVH (Jul 27, 2009)

That's it! It looks similar to some of the PCB's I just bought. Get someone to make you a pack with the Pany's and you're all set. I'd guess you'd get an extra 12 to 15 minutes run time. I don't think there's any balancing circuit on there.


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## windstrings (Jul 27, 2009)

Whats the function of that board at the base of the batteries?
Is that the protection circuit?

I'm assuming with that board I would need to stay with similiar make of batteries verses LiPo's?


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## sledhead (Jul 27, 2009)

The new WiseLed Tactical 2000 may fit the bill. Then you would have a strobe option, long runtime, and you could use the HID just when needed.


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## BVH (Jul 27, 2009)

Windy, That's the protection circuit PCB. Most of the PCB's I've read specs on are pretty general and have the same or nearly the same protection limits and can be used with LiIon or LiPoly. It will open the circuit when voltage reaches too high and too low (over charge and over discharge). It will open the circuit when the Amp draw is too high. Some of the better ones will also balance all cells once the charge process has ended. It continually takes from the highest cell and gives to the lower cells until they are even. Instructions say to allow the pack to sit for 30 minutes before use, that's the clue.

I am re-using the PCB that came with my Oracle 24 Watt pack for the new Panasonic cell pack.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 27, 2009)

BVH said:


> Maybe Lux will chime in.



I appreciate Windy's enthusiasm, but I had already dissected & photographed a pack linked in my "Barn full of BarnBurner & XeRay Links" thread here.

Another option that occurred to me was for OP to try and get a second BarnBurner. They do come up for sale at the rate of 1-2 per year. Maybe with this economy, someone needs to sell theirs. I think last going price was $1200-$1500


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## windstrings (Jul 27, 2009)

Oh well, now I'm not afraid to take one apart!

Thanks for the excellent thread you made back then.

I should have known it was somewhere.... I think 2.5 years ago when that thread was posted I must have been somewhere else.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2009)

I think if you made a pack that was 4s6p, that same PCB would work.


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