# DCD charger with LCD capacity indicator_Designed and made in china



## ShanghaiAndy (Jan 31, 2007)

Now it is avaliable in this addresshttp://auction1.taobao.com/auction/0/item_detail-0db1-c6f6f2b1942c3512e43f3b659af29899.jhtml

the full image








another color:





the back






well made





for temperature alarmer





the name card





the standby picture





the realtime indicating 1







realtime indicating 2





realtime indcating 3






realtime indicating 4






some other pictures. if you understand Chinese.

http://club.pchome.net/topic_2_5_257668__.html

and now in China it is sold for 178 RMB, half a year to exchange and one year to repair free if it went down.

anybody interested, I would like to introduce it more .


----------



## jusko (Jan 31, 2007)

I guess it has all the functions of the LaCrosse BC900 and Maha C9000 except charges in a slower rate. But at this price, we can't expect anything more.


----------



## coppertrail (Jan 31, 2007)

How much would it cost us in USD (+ shipping)? Also, what's up with the 6 mo./1 yr. turn around times? There are clear and white pictures, what color is the charger?


----------



## SilverFox (Jan 31, 2007)

Hello Chris,

It looks like it is offered in two colors, translucent and white.

Today's conversion puts 178 RMB at just under $23. I am not sure what shipping costs would be. I just purchased a meter from China and was charged $15 for shipping. I think that would be a maximum amount, but don't know for sure.

Tom


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Jan 31, 2007)

firstly , I would like to thank all of you to read this post.
secondly, i'd like to answer all of your questions. 

Mr. justko ,yes you are right. but the charging rate is variable automaticly acording to the quartilies of the batteries, when the battery is now good,Angeleyes can charge it at a lower rate ,when the battery is good , Angeleyes can charge it at a larger rate,with the maximum rate can be up to 1A.

Mr. coppertrail, firstly ,i can say that you can exchange and repair it in the period for any times.Secondly ,why not trust "made in China" stuffs? today ,almost every sanyo and sony charger is made in china! And we can assure you that it is much much more durable than you thought. 
We have two optional colors for the angeleyes.Accroding to the marketing experience, young people like the clear one,and elder people like the pearl one.

then ,the shipping cost, it is as follows:


----------



## coppertrail (Jan 31, 2007)

Hi Andy - 

I didn't mention anything about not trusting "Made in China" goods  Actually, I have a couple orders on the way from DealExtreme.com. 

The way I took it was that if you wanted to exchange it, it would be 6 months before you received the replacement, and if you sent it back for repair, you wouldn't get it back for a year. 

Now I understand that you can have it exchanged if it goes bad within the first 6 mo. If it goes bad between 6 mo. and a year, you can send it in and have it repaired, and there is no warranty after 1 year. Am I correct?

Your post got cut off. How much are the shipping charges to the US?

Thank you!

Chris


----------



## Led_Blind (Feb 1, 2007)

Certainly is interesting. Perhaps we need one sent for a comprehensive review, i am sure that would drive up the sales.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Feb 1, 2007)

hi ,coppertrail, i have got it . 

I am afraid that the shipping cost would be expensive for the stuff. for EMS ,the shipping fee would be 192 RMB every 500 g.
and the Angeleyes would be about 150g ,so with the package, 2 Angeleyes would below 500g.----i am sorry for it is so expensive!

if anyone intrested , i would like to put it in Ebay.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Feb 1, 2007)

and the comprehensive review would be on the road.

Presently ,anyone intrested can ask questions about it , i am glad to answer them.


----------



## coppertrail (Feb 1, 2007)

So charger + shipping, at today's exchange rate, would be around $41 USD . . .


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Feb 1, 2007)

yeah.
......i am afraid that would cause a lot of trouble in marketing in u.s. :-(


----------



## coppertrail (Feb 1, 2007)

I agree with the testing idea. It would be a wise idea to "donate" one unit to a forum member who would comprehensively test the charger and provide a review.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Feb 2, 2007)

hehe ,so what about to give it to you ?


----------



## khclamps (Feb 2, 2007)

If you send these items by China Express ( a coorporation founded by CHINA POST AND TNT),the freight fee is about 120RMB for 500g weights.

so the total cost will be 298RMB,equal to $ 38.30USD( exchange rate on 3 Feb,2007)

it sounds good to send some units to forum members.

May everything goes well.


----------



## coppertrail (Feb 2, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> hehe ,so what about to give it to you ?


 I would test it out and report my findings. I have several others to compare it to.


----------



## verge (Feb 3, 2007)

The metal screw holding the plastic housing and circuit board looks too close to one of the 100AC-240AC power prongs. Do you think there is no safety issue to that?


----------



## nerdgineer (Feb 3, 2007)

verge said:


> ..The metal screw holding the plastic housing and circuit board looks too close to one of the 100AC-240AC power prongs...


I dunno...separation looks OK to me. Could be further but I don't think 220V (120V here) is gonna arc across that gap. Both prong and screw look pretty firmly attached...


----------



## jusko (Feb 4, 2007)

verge said:


> The metal screw holding the plastic housing and circuit board looks too close to one of the 100AC-240AC power prongs. Do you think there is no safety issue to that?


 
There is a plastic column surrounding the screw inside the housing. So, no safety problem.

http://www.gzydl.com/bbs/UploadFile/2006-11/2006112520515829963.jpg


----------



## Anders (Feb 4, 2007)

What about UL listing

I don't find it here.

Anders


----------



## Norm (Feb 4, 2007)

I'd be very interested in trying one here in Australia.
Norm


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Feb 5, 2007)

Thanks to all of you!
Coppertrail: I am contacting with the producer of Angeleyes, and i think he will be interested to think about sending you one for testing. if he is not interested , maybe i will do it. Anyway, thank you for your concern.

Verge: yes ,jusko is right. and besides that ,Angeleyes has many characteristics for safety concern. let me show you with pictures later.

Anders: what do you mean by UL? is that a comunicating tool ? i have msn. the hotmail id is lvcarnival.thank you.

Norm: thank you for your care. i am asking the shipping agent for the cheapest way to overseas. when it is done,i will post the form.


----------



## jusko (Feb 5, 2007)

Anders said:


> What about UL listing
> 
> I don't find it here.
> 
> Anders


 
I think its only a formality and I am sure they'll get it if they apply for it.:naughty:


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Feb 22, 2007)

No new news on this charger?


----------



## hank (Feb 22, 2007)

UL approval means, for example, that the plastic used will resist flame for a specific period of time rather than igniting quickly. 

It's been a problem:
http://66.151.177.220/issues/home/computer_fires.html

"... In February 2003, the SAC spoke with individuals involved in a demonstration conducted at Underwriters Laboratories in January 2003 by a working group of the USA Technical Advisory Group to the International Electrotechnical Commission's TC 108, in which candles were tipped over, causing ignition of various items of ITE [info tech] and CE [computer equipment].... this demonstration confirmed what has been found in more controlled studies and added new information regarding the vulnerability of ITE and CE to external ignition...."


Underwriters Laboratories Inc.
UL is the trusted source across the globe for product compliance. ....
www.ul.com/ 
UL Online Certifications ... - database.ul.com/.../1FRAME/srchres.html
Standards for Safety - www.ul.com/info/standard.htm


----------



## ledflasher79 (Mar 3, 2007)

I just saw a similar charger that with LCD display $17.13 shipped at kaidomain.com. The brand is Soshine.


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Mar 4, 2007)

ledflasher79 said:


> I just saw a similar charger that with LCD display $17.13 shipped at kaidomain.com. The brand is Soshine.


 
Ugh... not even close! It doesn't give useable information such as voltage and current, but rather just a "bar graph" indicator for each cell. Only charges two AAA cells, not four. Two AAA cells charge at 600mA (a bit high?), but a single AAA cell charges at 1200mA. (OUCH!) And it doesn't appear that either this Soshine or the Angeleyes offers truly independent charging/mode selection as the BC-900, but at least the Angeleyes gives voltage and current information. If I could get my hands on an Angeleyes for the price of the Soshine, I would do it, even though I just aquired my third BC-900!


----------



## AdamW (Mar 15, 2007)

Anybody have one of these yet?

Are they even available?


----------



## jusko (Mar 16, 2007)

I have been using the China made AngelEyes Charger for some time. It has been available for a few months. 
It works great ! With useful battery information displayed on the clearly lit LCD like the Maha C9000/LaCrosses BC900 (LCD not lit). One feature that the C9000 is lacking is that the AngelEyes can discharge and then charge. It will not refuse charging the not-so-good batteries (of course, no HIGH displayed). But it will refuse charging really crappy rechargeable and alkaline batteries. It is small and light weight, no external power transformer is needed. I have not seen a missed termination so far. 

The main disadvantage is that it is a slow charger ! Only 530ma with 4 AA cells, and 1060ma with 2.

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Mar 16, 2007)

jusko said:


> I have been using the China made AngelEyes Charger for some time. It has been available for a few months. The main disadvantage is that it is a slow charger ! Only 530ma with 4 AA cells, and 1060ma with 2.


 
Where are you located, and where were you able to purchase this? Will the charger let you select currents other than those listed, like the BC-900? For example, if I wanted to charge only two AA cells at 500 mA, or two AAA cells at, say, 350 mA? Or does the current default to those you listed based upon number of cells? If you put two AAA cells in, will it charge them at 1060 mA? Any and all hands-on information you can provide would be great, as nobody else has chimed in with such information. I, for one, am very interested in this charger.


----------



## jusko (Mar 16, 2007)

Hi, Turbo DV8, 
I am from Hong Kong, I bought this charger on a website in China. You can find this charger on sale on these 2 websites (in Chinese)--- http://www.gzydl.com/ or http://auction1.taobao.com/auction/0/item_detail-0db1-c6f6f2b1942c3512e43f3b659af29899.jhtml

No, you can't select the charging current. This charger will determine the appropriate amount of current according to the health condition of the cell. But the max charging current is 1060ma for each cell when charging 2 AA cells at the same time, while it is 530ma each when 4 AAs are charging. For AAA cell, the charging current is halved, i.e. 630ma x2/320ma x4. It has worldwide power input AC100V-240V.

Hope this help and more questions about this charger are welcome.

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## Norm (Mar 16, 2007)

Is there an English web site for this charger. I'd like to give one a try but wouldn't be able to buy from any of the sites listed.
Norm


----------



## jusko (Mar 16, 2007)

Hi, Norm,

I am afraid there is no English web site for this charger at the moment, but I will try to relay your interest in buying this charger to the seller to see what they can do for you.

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## Norm (Mar 16, 2007)

jusko said:


> Hi, Norm,
> 
> I am afraid there is no English web site for this charger at the moment, but I will try to relay your interest in buying this charger to the seller to see what they can do for you.
> 
> ...



 Thanks
Norm


----------



## jusko (Mar 16, 2007)

Hi, Norm,

Just got a response from the seller. He explained that they didn't expect there were overseas buyers due to expensive shipping cost, so no English web site. 

After seeing post #10 of this thread, your interest of buying this charger may be reduced.

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## jusko (Mar 16, 2007)

Hi, Norm and Turbo_dv8, if you are really interested in buying the AngelEyes, you may contact the seller at email---- [email protected]

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## Norm (Mar 17, 2007)

Thanks jusko, I read post #10, but I wonder what the alternative is?, I was particularly interested in the capacity readout. Any suggestions? must be able to be used on 240 Volt 
Norm

I sent an email to the address you provided jusko, I'll let you know the outcome.


----------



## jusko (Mar 17, 2007)

Hi, Norm, yes the capacity readout is the main feature of this charger. The capacity readout let you know the health condition of the cell. There are the charging capacity and discharging capacity readouts. The automatically adjusted charging current also gives you some clues to the conditions of the cells, e.g internal resistance of the cells. If the cell is healthy, max current will be supplied.

The operating voltage is AC100V-240V.

Hope this help.

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## jusko (Mar 17, 2007)

Anyone interested in the Angeleyes may try to contact the sellers on [email protected] or [email protected]


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Mar 18, 2007)

jusko said:


> Just got a response from the seller. He explained that they didn't expect there were overseas buyers due to expensive shipping cost.


 
I am not sure I understand this. How can DealExtreme and Kaidomain ship me so much product from thereabouts for such a reasonable cost, yet this charger alone costs $18 to ship to the US?


----------



## jusko (Mar 18, 2007)

Hello, Turbo DV8, I have no idea about the $18 shipping costs or you can ask the seller direct for clarification please.

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## NetKidz (Mar 18, 2007)

Turbo DV8 said:


> I am not sure I understand this. How can DealExtreme and Kaidomain ship me so much product from thereabouts for such a reasonable cost, yet this charger alone costs $18 to ship to the US?


 
I think the US$18 shipping was calculated by shipping 500g goods via EMS (a.k.a. USPS Global Express), so it's expensive. DX and Kai are using airmail small package, thus cheaper.


----------



## xiaowenzu (Mar 18, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> Secondly ,why not trust "made in China" stuffs? today ,almost every sanyo and sony charger is made in china!


 I don't trust a generic brand made in China. For me that's the 'worse' combination. 

Sanyo and Sony are Japanese companies with experience and reputation for making products with high specifications.. their manufacturing practises are very strict, and they've produced many quality product which have been tested. I don't mind Sony/Sanyo made in China products because they have fine quality control designed and invented by Japanese... while us Chinese are merely following their 'blueprints'. 
Even though, 90% of the profit goes back to the Japanese companies and their shareholders in Japan, I prefer world reknown brand-names.


----------



## NetKidz (Mar 19, 2007)

Kai begins to sale this charger. Introductory kit $35 shipped. 

http://kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1374


----------



## TOOCOOL (Mar 19, 2007)

Wow wonder how that happened :laughing:


----------



## TinderBox (UK) (Mar 19, 2007)

I just ordered one.

I had to use IE, as the checkout did not like Firefox.

Free Delivery 

:goodjob: Netkidz

regards.

John.


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Mar 19, 2007)

TOOCOOL said:


> Wow wonder how that happened :laughing:


 
Don't know about Kai, but last Thursday I emailed DealExtreme to ask if they would carry this charger, and here is the response I got today:

_Hi Ron, _

_Thank you for contacting DealExtreme.com Customer Support. _

_I will let our colleague to find it in our market. We will let you know once we get it for sale. _


I feel like such an instigator, but after a couple months of hearing nothing about this charger, I decided not to sit back anymore. Hopefully we will see _both_ Kai and DealExtreme carrying this charger soon, with the resultant price war and downward-spiraling prices!  $35 is a lot of money for this charger. The only thing it has over the La Crosse BC-900 is an illuminated display. Every other aspect of the AngelEyes is a step down from the BC-900. Amazon sells the BC-900 for $35 and regularly offers free shipping. If the AngelEyes gets down to $20-$25 shipped, I'll spring for an AngelEyes as a backup to my other BC-900's.

Those who are buying the AngelEyes now, please post your experiences with it here once you play around with it for a while.


----------



## TOOCOOL (Mar 19, 2007)

Thats funny turbo I e-mailed Kai and I got 

Hi, Tim

I can get this. It will be up shortly. Introductary pricing is $35 shipped.

Kai


----------



## coppertrail (Mar 20, 2007)

TOOCOOL said:


> Thats funny turbo I e-mailed Kai and I got
> 
> Hi, Tim
> 
> ...


It's up on Kai's site: AngelEyes DCD Charger 
Limited quantity, $35 shipped, ships on or around 3/26/07


----------



## Lobo (Mar 27, 2007)

Anyone got this charger yet? Seems to be not too bad.


----------



## jusko (Mar 28, 2007)

Hi, Lobo, I have got the Angeleyes charger and it works very well. Charging and discharging information are displayed in the LCD clearly as stated in the specifications. No bulky transformer. I am very satisfied.

I will try to answer your questions as far as I know.

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## TinderBox (UK) (Mar 28, 2007)

Hi.

anybody know if there shipping yet, supposed to be instock around the 26th.

jusko, where did you get your charger from?.

regards.

John.


----------



## jusko (Mar 28, 2007)

Hi, John, I got it from an online store in China. But the website is in Chinese only. 

http://www.gzydl.com/ or http://shop129131.taobao.com/


Best Regards
jusko


----------



## Perfectionist (Apr 1, 2007)

When will China produce a AA/AAA charger which also does 14500/10440 !! ??


----------



## balazer (Apr 1, 2007)

Never. The charging electronics for the different chemistries are pretty much separate and li-ion chargers are such a niche that no one will bother making a cheap all-in-one charger. Anyway why do you care? You can already get extremely inexpensive li-ion chargers like the Nano and DSD.


----------



## Perfectionist (Apr 1, 2007)

Why do I care ? Well the same reason I upgraded my mobile phone to one that had buil-in GPS instead of having a separate unit ..... convenience and less hassle !!

I think if somebody did come up with a truly universal charger ..... it would sell all day long ..... especially to CPFers .....


----------



## TinderBox (UK) (Apr 1, 2007)

anybody got their charger from kaidomain yet?

are they shipping yet?.

thanks

John.


----------



## SilverFox (Apr 1, 2007)

Hello Perfectionist,

I don't know about the Chinese, but the Germans have some... Check out the Schulze line of chargers...

Tom


----------



## TinderBox (UK) (Apr 2, 2007)

anybody got their charger from kaidomain yet?

are they shipping yet?.

thanks

John.


----------



## dulridge (Apr 12, 2007)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> anybody got their charger from kaidomain yet?
> 
> are they shipping yet?.
> 
> ...



Just checked.

Mine says it has shipped.

Got yours yet?


----------



## robm (Apr 13, 2007)

Doh - forgot to post an update.
Ordered from Kai 26/03, arrived 07/04.

Seems to what it says - charges/discharges batteries and has a display 

Not sure it is any better at charging than a cheaper charger, but at least the counters/display allow easy identification of unbalanced cells/suspect batteries.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 18, 2007)

Thank you everyone.
I am the source supplier of all the stuff.

I am sure you will like it more and more with the time past. I promise!


----------



## LGCubana (Apr 18, 2007)

$35, shipped
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=1374


----------



## dulridge (Apr 20, 2007)

TinderBox (UK) said:


> anybody got their charger from kaidomain yet?
> 
> are they shipping yet?.
> 
> ...



Mine got here today. Seems fine - my only annoyance is if you miss the point where it tells you how much it has just pulled out of your cells - I put some old 1300mAh NiMH cells in it on Refresh (Probably should have done this in Discharge mode instead) mode. Missed the point where they were all discharged - don't yet know if the final display is what it got out of them, or what it put into them after charging - given that it was about 1100mAh, I'd guess it was what came out, rather than what was put in.

Will toss all the AA's I have lying around through it to see. the manual is far better than the usual Engrish translation (Much better translation than is usual from East Asia - my favourite was actually from Japan, not China - "Assembly of Japanese bicycle reuires great peace of mind" - Honda motorcycle manual circa 1970) - once you realise that the back half of it is in English and not Chinese - took my boss looking through it to find that one out. I ws about to head to the nearest Chinese restaurant and find someone who could read it to me before then.

So far - 18 hours later - I'm impressed


----------



## jusko (Apr 21, 2007)

Hi, dulridge, 

After the "refresh" mode has finished, the most important step that you have to do is take out all the cells. But remember don't unplug the charger! Then you can press the display/mode button to view all the stored information concerning the cells i.e. discharge capacity, charging capacity etc.

Hope this help.

Best Regards
jusko


----------



## Norm (Apr 21, 2007)

Seem to work well, time will tell. jusko thanks for the information I don't think that is in the manual. The batteries do get very warm.
Norm


----------



## dulridge (Apr 21, 2007)

> After the "refresh" mode has finished, the most important step that you have to do is take out all the cells. But remember don't unplug the charger! Then you can press the display/mode button to view all the stored information concerning the cells i.e. discharge capacity, charging capacity etc.



This is really useful to know - I didn't see thisd in the manual either. thanks a lot.

d.


----------



## jusko (Apr 21, 2007)

Hi, Norm and dulridge, you are always welcome


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 21, 2007)

woo...I am right, an't I? I once said that every got it will like it more and more, and never regret for purchasing it.

Let me explain the reason why the data memorizing function not including in the manual.

The manual was printed when we developed the first version of angeleyes, which has no such functions like data memo, and at about this feburary, the second version ,also the final version came out, and we have added some new features into the software of angeleyes, and we also have made some improvement of it . for example: when you finished the operations(such as charge,discharge and refresh),the back light will went down,but when you are about to check the data, you may need the back light to go on again, the first version dont allow this happen, but in the final version, when you press any of the buttons, the back light will go on for several seconds(10?30?I can remember presisely).

but we have printed many many manuals when the fisrt version came out ,so for the cost conseration, we still use the manual of old one. Sorry for that! But i promise ,any one ask operationing questions, we are very glad to answer here! and i promise everyone who purchase the angeleyes will get the final version.

remember, at the start stage of the r&d ,we sit down ,and discuss what were the most favorited features should a dream charger have?! what on earth ?!that is why the angeleyes came out. compare to the maha9000, we have the "refresh" mode which maha9000 doesnt have, and we show the data of all the batteries charged at one time!

wish more and more of you can have a good taste of angeleyes.


----------



## dulridge (Apr 21, 2007)

If you do any more updates, it would be nice if it could charge at higher rates. I know nothing at all about electronic design but if it could add charging at selectable higher rates - 2 amps would be nice - without raising the cost that would be excellent.

But I like it already


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 21, 2007)

dear dulridge:

we think it over for a long time. when you only charge 2 aa batteries, the max rates would be about 1100ma, only when you charge 4, it turns into about 550ma.

too high rates would bring up some flaws. 1. harmful to the batteries. 2. it causes too much hot; 3.it would bring up the possiblities of the charger to go wrong; 4. safety consideration.

thank you for your concern.


----------



## dulridge (Apr 21, 2007)

Like I said, I knew nothing about electronic design 

Heat is not too big a problem for me - I have plenty of powerful fans lying around and am quite happy to use them - the noise doesn't bother me much.

Safety is more important though...

Thanks very much for the reply.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 22, 2007)

You are welcome.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 22, 2007)

There's been melt down issues with the BC-900, but LaCrosse was distributed by a US distributor.

In the event of a property damage or injury, who assumes liability on this product?

Also, the product is directly powered by AC and I do not see a UL approval. In the event of fire, it would cause a difficulty with fire insurance company.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 23, 2007)

dear handlobraesing:

dont worry...since i start saling this stuff, i have saled more than 1000 of it, and by now, never seen any buyer say anything about the quality issues. Never!

Trust me or not, that is the way it is.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 23, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> dear handlobraesing:
> 
> dont worry...since i start saling this stuff, i have saled more than 1000 of it, and by now, never seen any buyer say anything about the quality issues. Never!
> 
> Trust me or not, that is the way it is.



You didn't answer my question. If the product contributes to property damage or personal injury, who assumes liability?


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 23, 2007)

I can answer you directly, the worried situation would never happen!

if you can understand chinese, you can see in the below page how much we have done in the designing of angeleyes for the security concern, including the China safety approval:

http://club.pchome.net/topic_2_5_257668__.html


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 23, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> I can answer you directly, the worried situation would never happen!
> 
> if you can understand chinese, you can see in the below page how much we have done in the designing of angeleyes for the security concern, including the China safety approval:
> 
> http://club.pchome.net/topic_2_5_257668__.html



That's not an acceptable answer. There's no such thing as never.

the LaCrosse BC-900 and the MAHA MH-C9000 are both marketed through a US based company and are UL approved.

With anything, there is a possibility of product malfunction resulting in property damage/injury attributed to defect/mal-design. Anyone who says never is just as questionable as someone claiming to never having made a mistake. 

If a product causes a damage or injury and the distributor has a US representation, it's assuring to know that you can negotiate the problem and attempt to settle, but if they refuse to accept responsibility, you can easily file a legal complaint seeking compensation instead of being left stranded being told "not our problem" and not having any legal recourse. 

If a foreign based product with no local representation cause a such and the seller says "not my problem", it is very hard to recover losses and it's even more nerve wrecking that the said product has no UL approval.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 23, 2007)

I can only say:

according to thousands of users' practice, there is never such a problem like maha9000 has(fails to stop charging). Even not a single person once said that he was unhappy with the angeleyes...

I think we can at least draw two conclutions from this:
1. Even a product with a UL approval, us represtation, like maha9000,can not promising not has flaws;
2.The angeleyes is of real good quality.

The reason why we dont have US agency and UL approval is only of cost concern,only of it! If we charge 70 dollar for one unit with a US agency backup and UL apporval, would you buy it? or rather to buy a 35 dollar one without those things,while being still very reliable?

Trust me,with the people around you use the angeleyes more and more, you will find how reliable it is...

Thank you very much. I am think ,maybe we should apply for sth? I dont konw...


----------



## LGCubana (Apr 23, 2007)

I'm a little confused by the huge lettering that says 2000mah, across the package's front. But in the pics, a 2500mah AA battery is being used.

What would be the max capacity battery be; that this end all, of all chargers handle ?

Thanks


----------



## dulridge (Apr 23, 2007)

LGCubana said:


> I'm a little confused by the huge lettering that says 2000mah, across the package's front. But in the pics, a 2500mah AA battery is being used.
> 
> What would be the max capacity battery be; that this end all, of all chargers handle ?



It's certainly happy with my 2700's - in the process of making up an AA-D adapter so I can externally charge a 4Ah NiCd cell. These cells were bought in 1985 and have had a hard life so I'll be interested to see if it can cope with them. Can't find the 4 dummy AA's I have in the loft somewhere though.

My guess is that this means that it can charge at 2A and a bit (seems to charge at 532mA per channel with 4 cells - making 2128mA) overall.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 23, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> I can only say:
> 
> according to thousands of users' practice, there is never such a problem like maha9000 has(fails to stop charging). Even not a single person once said that he was unhappy with the angeleyes...
> 
> ...



Your "our product is good quality" and "trust me's" have no grounds and not very convincing. You're directly avoiding my question regarding tort liability.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 23, 2007)

Dear Lgcubana:

The max capacity of angeleyes is 4000mah, after which the safety machenism would stop charging process.

Dear Handlobraesing 
I am sorry , if you can not trust me after i said so much. Just dont buy it.I cant figure out any better way to solve your concern.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 23, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> Dear Lgcubana:
> 
> The max capacity of angeleyes is 4000mah, after which the safety machenism would stop charging process.
> 
> ...



The LaCrosse BC-900 is still quite decent. I think their user interface is very good and it's $40 shipped, so it's quite competitive with the one you're offering.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00077AA5Q/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I won't. Just bought the MH-C9000. 
1. Obtain UL.
2. Have a US branch who would assume liabiliy.


----------



## dulridge (Apr 24, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> Dear Lgcubana:
> 
> The max capacity of angeleyes is 4000mah, after which the safety machenism would stop charging process.



Does it cut of at 4000mAh on discharge as well, or will it continue down to 1V/cell? I hope it is the second - I can always recharge higher capacity cells in something else but it would be nice to know how much can be got out of them.

At present not a big deal as the highest capacity cells I own are nominally 4Ah but are over 20yr old. Still got 3300mAh out of one of them but can only discharge them one at a time as I only have one dummy AA cell modified to connect batteries externally.


----------



## AdamThirnis (Apr 24, 2007)

It's only a little battery charger. How much damage can it do?


----------



## hank (Apr 24, 2007)

> How bad ....

Bad.

> If we charge 70 dollar for one unit with a US agency backup and UL 
> apporval, would you buy it? or rather to buy a 35 dollar one without 
> those things,while being still very reliable?

I would definitely pay $70 for your product after it gets UL approval, and I consider that well worth the cost for UL certification. 

It's not that hard to pass a fire safety test if you're building a safe product.

I'd be even happier once the UL adopts the current draft standard for fire safety (see below).

If a product with a UL approval catches on fire and burns my house down, I've got a far better argument with the insurance company than if I knowingly saved $35 by buying a product that has not been tested and approved for fire safety.

http://www.firemarshals.org/mission/residential/fuels/it_and_consumer_electronics.asp

"... NASFM RELEASES DVD ENTITLED "PRELIMINARY FIRE SCREENING TESTS OF CONSUMER ELECTRONICS AND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT." (CLIPS CAN BE VIEWED AT THE BOTTOM OF [that] PAGE.)

"The NASFM Consumer Product Fire Safety Task Force is pleased to report that some computer and consumer electronics manufacturers apparently are now voluntarily using the new draft “candle ignition” technical specification for at least some of their products, even though this new draft has yet to be formally adopted by Underwriters Laboratories (UL) and its international counterparts. The use of this technical specification by manufacturers will help to ensure that the outer housings of thousands of computer, consumer electronics and telecommunications products sold for use in the home and other occupancies are less likely to ignite by a small open flame such as a candle.

This is fire prevention at its best. Thanks to the strong leadership and integrity of corporations like IBM/Lenovo, Hewlett-Packard (H-P), Philips and UL – and the hard work of Science Advisory Committee members Hank Roux and Margaret Simonson – we have not been forced to wait for death and injury statistics to pile up before we “prevent” fires. The fact is that candle fires, juvenile fire-setting and electrical ignitions all are capable of igniting the typically plastic housings of these many products.

Earlier this year, we subjected eight new flat-panel television sets and monitors to a small open candle flame at the New Hampshire Department of Public Safety. All of our tests were conducted in the same environment with exposure to the same conditions but, as you will see, candle flames tend to jump around and came in contact at different angles, depending on how the individual TVs and monitors were built. Links to the video clips of these comparative tests can be found at the bottom of this page.

As you will see in the clips, some of these products did not ignite after as much as four minutes’ exposure to the candle flame. These products typically charred or bubbled, which demonstrates that they were exposed to heat from the candles. Other products ignited – some in under 15 seconds – and erupted quickly into large fires. (Some interior designers are recommending large flat-screen TVs be placed over fireplaces – not a great idea based on what we saw.) ...."

----- see the link above and links there for more info --------
-----> Don't miss the video clips at that page. <------------


----------



## TOOCOOL (Apr 24, 2007)

UL does not “approve” products. Rather it evaluates products, components, materials and systems for compliance to specific requirements, and permits acceptable products to carry a UL certification Mark.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 25, 2007)

dear dulridge:

in the discharge mode, there is no such limit, the discharge process would stop until the volt goes down to 1.000v. 

Dear hank:
I will seriouly consider your propose. but the appoval procedure would not be short. before then , we will still saling this unit at 35 dollar . If you trust us, buy it now, it wont dispoint you; if not ,wait , but i am afraid it would be a very long period.

by the way : the charger's shell is made of PC, which is maybe the best material used in such product producing, if you dont trust me, try your cigeratte lighter on the shell to see if it can be affected!


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 25, 2007)

Listing means everything. Fire insurance policies, organization safety policies as well as personal safety. 






Left: $10 Energizer charger granted an ETL mark, which is more stringent than UL.

Right: Charger that came with $18 Dremel combo kit. UL Listed.

Your $40 charger: not listed

What do universities all over America say about the use of non-UL listed appliances in their housing facilities? 
*ABSOLUTELY PROHIBITED!
* Usually the same applies to campus offices as well.

http://www.unh.edu/housing/housinginfo/appliances.html
http://crown.ucsc.edu/studentlife/housingbring.php
http://reslife.missouri.edu/reshalllist.htm
http://reslife.gardner-webb.edu/NewMakeHome.html
etc. etc. etc. etc.

The claims that your product is safe is purely based on appeal to emotion, such as "trust me", "it is of high quality" and testimonies like "well, we've sold 1,000 of these so far and it hasn't burned down anyone's house yet, so it must be safe" 

Ok, so at this point you guys know that it is not listed. If one of them was to use at school and something happens, how do you expect him to explain himself? 

"I found this cool product on the internet and personally imported from China. I knew it wasn't UL-listed, I knew our safety policies prohibits it, but I trusted some sales guy from China on the internet that their product is completely safe despite the lack of approval. He said "it's safe, trust me". I apologize that my wilful regard of safety policies burned down the residence hall?"


----------



## TOOCOOL (Apr 25, 2007)

I have known of UL-listed parts banned in the UK because their standards were to low, also just because something has not been tested does not make it inherently unsafe, just means it hasn't been tested.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 25, 2007)

TOOCOOL said:


> just because something has not been tested does not make it inherently unsafe, just means it hasn't been tested.


 
that is what i always want to express.

if a woman has never got pregnant,does it mean that she hasn't such ability? Would it be necessary for every women to get pregnant before marriage ,so as to prove she's capability of bearing children? Or doesnt every virgin have the ability to have children? Why do some of you have draw such conclusion? Actrually ,99% of them can have children....

i want to say it for the last time:

the reason why we didnt get the UL or such thing in US is just of cost concern, but that does not mean that our product is not safe!!!


----------



## hank (Apr 25, 2007)

Ok, we understand this is new.

Yes, the Underwriters Labs have been fooled in the past (companies sending them adequately safe plastics to pass the fire safety tests, then selling unsafe plastic on the market, that kind of thing).

Yes, the standards used can be too weak, so meeting them still lets unsafe products get the UL seal.

But. "Underwriters" are people who write their name underneath a promise to pay for something.
Put this into a Google search box to see the various meanings--- define:underwriters

I just had a $400 set of replacement front axles fail in my old Subaru, after about 1000 miles of use --- turned out they were made from soft metal instead of hardened steel. Could've killed me. The company (mainland China) that made them went out of business months ago. So there's no record of the people who bought these, and no way to track who else got the bad parts, they're still out there being sold in parts stores. Dangerous. 

Reputation takes a while to build, and people like me are quite serious that we want to help companies build good products by paying some of the costs.

Othewise we pay the costs of the bad products when they fail, ourselves, as I do for my car axles!

A cheap part failing can cause damage far beyond what it costs.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 25, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> that is what i always want to express.
> 
> if a woman has never got pregnant,does it mean that she hasn't such ability? Would it be necessary for every women to get pregnant before marriage ,so as to prove she's capability of bearing children? Or doesnt every virgin have the ability to have children?



Exactly my point. Just because your product hasn't burned down a building doesn't mean its tested for safety. I can store a gasoline in my bedroom next to candles in a glass bottle and it doesn't mean its safe just because a fire hasn't occured yet. 




> the reason why we didnt get the UL or such thing in US is just of cost concern, but that does not mean that our product is not safe!!!



When a $9.99 USD charger has a certification superior to UL, the ETL, and yours has none.. well there is a problem.


----------



## dulridge (Apr 25, 2007)

And their respective sales volumes are?


----------



## hank (Apr 25, 2007)

Andy, if you looked at the videos, you can see just how one fire safety test is done by the Fire Marshals (and their site has links to other countries' safety and standards and test results, not just the USA).

Put a candle flame under it for five minutes, the same way as was done with the home electronics gear in the videos --- what happens? 

The UL test is standardized --- you could look that up. But even from the Fire Marshals' videos you can see very clearly that some of the devices just got smoky and bubbly; other ones were completely in flames and burned up, putting out enough smoke and flammable volatiles to ignite surrounding devices.

As Dulridge points out, right now, you probably don't have a big enough sales volume to know your buyers have had the product long enough to say what happens with them as failures occur over time. You do need to break some yourself and find out, I suggest.

Stuff happens. a metal part breaks and shorts out inside, or a bad electrical cord shorts out internally, or someone does have a battery catch fire in one your chargers --- what happens to the charger? Does it catch fire and burn? Simple test.

You should know that for yourself, certainly. Electronics wear out, and get used by people who don't know how to handle them. 

The key is, knowing that batteries containing lithium are hazardous, you want to be able to say that your charger is made, at least, of a plastic that won't itself burn when exposed to a battery fire or short circuit inside.

That's a real simple kind of test.


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Apr 26, 2007)

Might it be possible to move the UL debate to a separate forum, and leave the rest of this thread uncluttered for DCD charger discussion? Thanks.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 26, 2007)

Turbo DV8 said:


> Might it be possible to move the UL debate to a separate forum, and leave the rest of this thread uncluttered for DCD charger discussion? Thanks.



Safety is a critical part of a debate, so I disagree.


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Apr 26, 2007)

I agree this is an important topic, but it would be nice to leave this thread to discuss the actual performance of the charger and such. When people search for information on this charger, it makes it very hard to glean information when we are going on three pages now of philosophical debate about UL. I am sure you have seen here threads that are 20 pages long and have become so contaminated with off-topics as to be painful to trudge through. Can we not leave this issue to another forum, and for this threads purposes just agree that this charger is not UL listed, and leave it to readers if this is acceptable to them or not? But again, I do agree there is some fascinating information being presented, just don't feel this is the proper place to carry on.


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 27, 2007)

Handlobraesing 

I can only says two issues:

1.our product is perfect, in quality and function; we will sale it no matter if we apply for the so called UL;
2.thank you for presenting soooooooooooo much things about UL, but if you dont like products without UL, just do NOOOOOOOOOOOOOT buy it.That's it.
i am sure with the time past ,there will be more and more people who love angeleyes. One day you will find out the reasons.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 27, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> Handlobraesing
> 
> I can only says two issues:
> 
> ...



I didn't say your product is of terrible quality/function. I don't plan on buying it, because I don't believe in something that's not officially safety tested and I already bought a MH-C9000. It's like buying a car that's not officially crash tested. "Just because it's not crash tested doesn't mean its unsafe" isn't very assuring.

A lot of consumer base here are in the US and not everyone realize the implication of non-UL listed appliances and I think they have the right to be informed. Just like I discourage you from driving without your seatbelt, if the lack of UL violates the policy of where you'd be using the charger of would be exempt from coverage by your fire insurance, I discourage the use. 

To those considering purchase, you may want to keep in mind that:

At home:
Home owner's/fire insurance may have limitations on insurance payout on matters caused by malfuction of non-UL listed appliances.

At living community(apartments, university dorms etc) 
To ensure the safety of everyone and to protect common property, the lease agreement or campus safety regulations may explicitly PROHIBIT the use of non-UL listed appliances, including alarm clock and small stuff. If you know something you're about to bring in is unlisted and you know it is prohibited, you're recklessly disregarding community safety policies. It's encouraged you check the policies on this. Ask your landlord, insurance company, or if you're in the dorms, ask the school's Safety & Environmental Health office. 


At work:
The use of non-UL listed product may violate company policy, lease agreement or insurance policy. 

In some state, it is a violation of fire prevention code.
http://www.dpi.state.nc.us/insurance/faq/riskcontrol/


----------



## ShanghaiAndy (Apr 27, 2007)

Handlobraesing :

i dont understand how could a man could act like you. arent you bored? why be so dull to reiterated one thing again ,again and again?

ok, we dont have the UL yet. and we are still saling it. ok? are you satisfacted? 

so what? 

I am a man of good temper , but i can still not understand why you speak again again.

And maybe i know the real purpose of you. KAI is saling it at a faster and faster pace, so are you angry?

why not crawl back to the hole where you belong to ,and stop pretending to care about out products's quality?


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Apr 27, 2007)

Handlobraesing said:


> To those considering purchase, you may want to keep in mind that:
> 
> At home:
> Home owner's/fire insurance may have limitations on insurance payout on matters caused by malfuction of non-UL listed appliances ... To ensure the safety of everyone and to protect common property, the lease agreement or campus safety regulations may explicitly PROHIBIT the use of non-UL listed appliances ... The use of non-UL listed product may violate company policy, lease agreement or insurance policy.


 

Yes, all these are very important points to consider when purchasing _any _electronic product ... and all these points have been previously made several times in this thread about the DSD charger. 



> ...and not everyone realize the implication of non-UL listed appliances and I think they have the right to be informed.


 
Yes, absolutely agreed. And if "everyone" is the target audience, this message would be heard by many, many more people if this discussion were continued in the Cafe under a thread with "UL Listing Warning" stated in the title, instead of  here.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Apr 27, 2007)

ShanghaiAndy said:


> Handlobraesing :
> 
> i dont understand how could a man could act like you. arent you bored? why be so dull to reiterated one thing again ,again and again?



You keep insisting about your product being "good quality" and "bad thing will not happen" "perfect" and myriads of superlatives, but have yet to provide a straight answer regarding liability.


----------



## AdamThirnis (Apr 27, 2007)

I'm confused. Is this product not UL appproved?


----------



## hank (Apr 27, 2007)

Andy, test it (5 minutes contact with a candle flame, like in the videos). You want to avoid using plastic that will catch fire quickly and burn if there is an internal short or overheating, while it has lithium batteries inside it --- right? Or when a lithium battery fails and burns inside it.

Learn from the people -- the ones who made mistakes in the past. Battery chargers get particular attention because they're known to start fires. Example article here:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/bonus/qa/2001-04-19-fire.htm

Bad things happen to perfectly good products. Your charger has to handle expected failure modes.

Enough. 

Talk to us about how it detects full charge.
Talk to us about how it turns off the charging current when a cell is fully charged.
Tell us why you do or don't continue to trickle-charge a cell.

Every manufacturer and designer I've ever seen show up at CPF gets a _lot_ of good suggestions,
and many of them improve what they're building. It's part of what this place offers you.


----------



## dulridge (Apr 27, 2007)

hank said:


> Andy, test it (5 minutes contact with a candle flame, like in the videos). You want to avoid using plastic that will catch fire quickly and burn if there is an internal short or overheating, while it has lithium batteries inside it --- right? Or when a lithium battery fails and burns inside it.
> 
> Talk to us about how it detects full charge.
> Talk to us about how it turns off the charging current when a cell is fully charged.
> Tell us why you do or don't continue to trickle-charge a cell.



The manufacturer can hardly be held responsible for stupidity. Putting lithium batteries in a charger designed for nickel batteries is unlikely to accomplish anything good - at least they are not likely to go boom (voltage too low) - but since protected or unprotected Li cells are not terribly compatible with personal safety at the best of times...

One does have choices and must be prepared to take responsibility for them... It says clearly in the manual that this charger is for NiCd and NiMH cells and does not say that it is suitable for anything else. So attempts to use other types are at your own responsibility.

UL or whatever is not the point here. Technically, this charger is illegal for sale (but not use) in the EU as it is not CE marked. No amounts of UL marking will do any good in the EU.

Knowing this, I still bought and use one. The corollary of this is that I am aware of this and must accept the consequences of so doing. So if you don't like this - don't buy it. Simple.

Has it ever been claimed that it bore such marks? Hence _caveat emptor_.


----------



## hank (Apr 27, 2007)

Regardless, since lithiums do fail, it'd be good to know if the charger supports or deters the fire, eh?

Tell us how it handles current after a cell reaches a desired voltage --- does the charger cut off power to each cell or trickle charge? one at a time?


----------



## bbf (Apr 27, 2007)

Handlobraesing said:


> Listing means everything. Fire insurance policies, organization safety policies as well as personal safety.



Yep, we get the point. Stop bashing the manufacturer. You should be going after the distributors/retailers that are illegally importing non-approved electrical devices. It's the importer that's responsible for ensuring the goods they import carry the proper local safety approvals.

Note that CSA electrical approval also counts and is recognized in the US as being equivalent to UL approval for insurance and public safety purposes.


----------



## crislight01 (Jun 12, 2007)

Interesting discussion, I just bought a maha C 9000 i would like to know does the maha have some system to detect when cells are way too hot or will it keep charging them? and  , does it have that sort of security system?


----------



## Kill-O-Zap (Sep 16, 2007)

Handlobraesing said:


> The LaCrosse BC-900 is still quite decent. I think their user interface is very good and it's $40 shipped, so it's quite competitive with the one you're offering.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00077AA5Q/?tag=cpf0b6-20



Is this right? $40 for the LaCrosse? was that a one-time special, or what? right now it's $69. Is it likely to be seen for $40 again?


----------



## Turbo DV8 (Sep 16, 2007)

Kill-O-Zap said:


> Is this right? $40 for the LaCrosse? was that a one-time special, or what? right now it's $69. Is it likely to be seen for $40 again?


 
It's on "sale" on Amazon right now for $54. I also noted several months ago that the price of the BC-900 rose sharply after a long stint around the $40 range. My guess is La Crosse got a bit big for their britches when the Maha Wizard 1 came out in the $80 price range. The timing of the occurrence of the BC-900 price increase and the new price point would seem to support this theory. Either that, or La Crosse had to increase the price on the BC-900 to pay for all the BC-900 meltdown tort lawsuits!  Glad I bought my three before the Maha came out.


----------



## AlexLED (Jul 16, 2008)

Hi Andy, 
seems like pretty sophisticated charger ! 
can you comment on the full-charge detection ? I suppose this is done via negative delta-voltage ? 
What is the threshold ? 
What is the precision of the a/d converter ?


----------

