# LATHE SWAP: Jet 13x40 for my hf 8x12 vfd



## gt40 (Apr 22, 2010)

The shop that does all my race car work came into a jet lathe that is taking up shop space. They farm out all their machine shop work for the past 5 years and don't really use a lathe anymore. The owner is willing to swap it for my hf 8x12 following my vfd conversion. I am not familar with the Jet. It is model #GHB-1340A. I found new ones for sale for 5k range. It is in serious need of cleanup etc. but the owner says it works and he doesn't have the space or time to deal with it. This is for my garage and flashlights so it is definitely overkill but i have the room. He is a friend so no worries if it has issues and I want the hf 8x12 back. 

It is 13x40 size!

Here are some pics:







I have no idea what the 2nd pic is about:





Assuming it works fine, anyone have any experience with this thing? He said it is an "engine" lathe. Not sure what that means.

It is 220 volt 2 hp with a gear box 8 speeds and power feed/cross feed. I got to pay for local pickup. I am wondering if I am biting off more than I can chew.


----------



## gadget_lover (Apr 22, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

The second picture is the head of a mill or (more likely) a high end drill press. It may be an attachment to work with the lathe, or it may be seperate equipment. If it's offered as part of the deal just smile and say yes. 

Of course, you know you will want to VFD this sucker, right?

http://www.southern-tool.com/store/1340_geared_head_lathe.html

Daniel


----------



## csa (Apr 22, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Sounds like a nice thing to me... A big lathe will let you do so many things a smaller one can't.


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 22, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Run it in through all the speeds, all the feeds, and through all threading combination's. 

The gearbox that turns both the lead screw for threading & the shaft for carriage advance is one known weak point on all the Jet models, whether belt drive or gear head. *IF* you have to replace all the gears in that box, the cost is just under a grand - if not, the cost is zero 

The tail stock locking system is the other often seen problem. You can redesign & improve it if it gives problems.

They aren't a bad machine, especially if they've seen light use. Write down both the serial number & the model number from the nameplate & telephone Mary McWilliams, Tech Service, Walter Meier Manufacturing (who is now the supplier of all Jet replacement parts). She can then email a parts breakdown, and tell you when that machine was built. 

ph (615) 793-1332 fax(615) 287-1532

Bearings in the headstock are tapered rollers of the Timken style. Preload is adjustable from the rear of the spindle using a pair of Armstrong type hook spanner wrenches.

If all the speeds sound good, all the feeds work, and all the threading combination's are OK, it may be a sweet deal


----------



## gt40 (Apr 22, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Precisionworks- Thank you so much for the referral. I will follow up tomorrow. 

The owner is really cleaning house and said I can have an old bridgeport mill too if I will haul it off. I have spent a lot of money over the years with the shop on the race car so he is "donating them" to me if I want them to clear shop space. I know nothing of the mill but I have seen them use it a couple of times and it seems to work:
















Forgive the quality of the pics he just had someone in the shop snap some and e-mailed them to me. I no nothing of these mills and both the lathe and mill have seen better days but the price is right

I will go down tomorrow and inspect both properly before I hire a mover.


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 22, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

For sure grab the Bpt ... it's a Series one, step pulley, with a newer (2000 or so) Sargon DRO. A company in California can repair the DRO if needed for about $150, as long as the scales and reader heads are OK. $250-$300 for a VFD & the mill will spin 

J&L Scraping Service will make the Bpt look & run like new for about the cost of an Enco mill-drill: http://www.evanlcox.com/sites/jandlscraping/

FWIW, the old style "round ram" Bpts will bring $1000 at most any auction. The Series 1 will usually sell for $1500 in about the condition you show.


----------



## Davo J (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

I would do the swap, and grab that Bridgeport as well.
The lathe might be like this one below and have a mill head on it as well.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-36-Metal-Lathe-w-Milling-Head/G0492

Most parts are interchangable between Chinese brands, so you should be right for spares in the future.

It would be every home shop guys dream, for a deal like this to come along.
Dave


----------



## darkzero (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*



Davo J said:


> I would do the swap, and grab that Bridgeport as well.
> 
> It would be every home shop guys dream, for a deal like this to come along.
> Dave


 
+1

That BP should be number one on the list.

If you got the room you have to be insane to pass up on this offer! If you don't have the room, make room! :twothumbs


----------



## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

If you don't have room call me!

Grab it and run like hell!!!


----------



## gt40 (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

I went down to the shop and inspected the lathe and the mill. The lathe was completely covered with grime but I put some penetrating oil on it and it everything looks good. the cross slide, gears, everything moves smoothly. I tried to wire it up but had some trouble. Anyone have any experience wiring this thing up? I found the parts manual but the wiring on pg46-47 is cryptic for me. Here is a link to the manual if anyone is up for helping. http://content.wmhtoolgroup.com/manuals/M-321357A.pdf

I found a post on the internet that says:

"Look at pages 46/47. The second conduit from the left in both pictures shows three large wires coming into the panel. These should be the supply lines. If you look at the wiring diagram they should be numbered. Looks like green(earth ground) into the 3rd terminal from the left. white (neutral) into the 4th terminal, and black (line) into the 5th terminal. Now fire that thing up, I need some parts"

Hopefully this is all there is. I already installed a breaker box with 3 230v circuits in the garage but it was years ago  I just need to understand what wires go from the power cord to the box and whether I need to install a wall switch for power in line with it. I scored a heavy 6 leg metal table that will fit the lathe also but I got to cut the legs down about 4 " and weld on some leveling bases for them first.

On to the mill. The Bridgeport turns on, the table moves and the DRO works! It is rusty and need of major cleaning but the ways seem okay and the shop made stuff with it a couple of months ago so nothing is broken at least. This will be a major project to restore it properly but I am in awe of how massive this thing is. It is 3 phase so I guess I need an converter box or something to go from 240v 1 phase which I have to 3 phase. I was able to talk to the son of the original owner. It has been in his family for decades and seen very little use and probably neglect for most of its life. It was in a race shop for 20 years before going to 2 other similar businesses over 2 generations. It doesn't seem to have been used so much as neglected.


----------



## gadget_lover (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Sounds like the find of the decade for a racer like yourself. Way to GO!

Daniel


----------



## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

The 2 legs of the 220v circuit go to L & N, PE= earth GROUND-the green wire, also it is probably the copper ground bar in the panel.

L & N on the diagram are the 220V line in, I can't read the terminals in the photo, can you find terminals marked L & N? 
You should not have a neutral rather it runs on the 2 hot leads (220V, 2 colored wires like red/black or Blk/Blk or red/red just not white and a color) coming from the power box. If the power cord it was attached with has a white wire in it it probably is being used as one of the hot leads not as a neutral, like Will Quiles 12x36 was hooked up. For the 110v accessories it make it's own with the transformer.

Reading your description above it looks like you are trying to wire it like it were a 110V machine, that would be a neutral (white) and a colored wire other than green, and a green(Ground). It looks like it is a 220V machine according to the schematic. I have never seen a 13X40 lathe that is not at least run on 220v or 208V (3 phase).

You will need a Phase converter of some type for the mill. You can buy them already built, or you can make one using a Three phase motor and another motor to wind it up to speed(pony). See Barry's thread on his new lathe. Starting around post #44: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/264523&page=2

Or you might be able to wire it up with a VFD and have variable speed, This would be the best way if it only has the motor being powered by the 220V and the DRO can be powered off another 110v line.

Some people put a disconnect on the wall if it is hard wired in or if you use a plug and receptacle that serves as a disconnect, just unplug! 

Hope this helps, If you would like me to wire it up for you I might take the mill in trade!


----------



## wquiles (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*



gadget_lover said:


> Sounds like the find of the decade for a racer like yourself. Way to GO!
> 
> Daniel



+1

Absolutely a fantastic find/deal, even it it needs some tender caring love to bring back to working condition :thumbsup:


----------



## gt40 (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

I took a pic with my phone of the wiring box. Crap, it is different than the manual pics. I just need to know where to hook up the 230 volt wires:


----------



## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

I can't see the markings well but the first two terminals on the bottom left, next to the copper ground bar, is where I would look. They are both empty and the wire tape above the 1st one has an L on it and the one to the right of it might be the N. Can you see the wire tape above the 2nd terminal?

The terminals on the bottom should be internally jumpered to the ones directly above that have the wire on them. Those are the wires to look at for the L & N

It's too bad the Chinese don't mark the jumper strip (block) where to hook up the wires and the voltage to hook up to them, it would make it a lot easier to find. But then sometimes they use power cable with the white wire hooked up to a 220V tap! Go figure!


----------



## gt40 (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Thank you very much! It is an l and and n on those terminals. Does it matter which of the the 2 wires I put in either? If I understand you, I will get a cable and the 2 pos go to the L and N terminals and the ground goes to the copper grounding terminal.


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

You'll need 15 amp double pole breaker for your load center, plus enough #12 3 conductor with ground to go from the load center to the lathe. Romex is OK, as is a rubber covered cable like SOOW.

The 12/3 will have 3 conductors (2 black, 1 white, plus a bare copper ground). The 2 blacks go to the two terminals on the lathe labeled L1 and L2, white goes to N (neutral) and bare copper goes to ground.


----------



## StrikerDown (Apr 23, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Edit: Barry beat me with his post. Barry look again at the wiring schematic for his lathe. It does not use a neutral, just the 220V legs plus ground. Terminals L & N are just tap numbers. (see page 45) End edit.

It does not matter on single phase.

At your building electric panel you will need a double pole circuit breaker to hook into. panels are set up to give you 220V between the adjacent breaker spaces so a double pole breaker uses 2 "out of phase" circuits in the panel giving 220V between the 2 terminals on the breaker.

If you can find a three conductor 14 gauge cable (assuming 2 HP motor, 220V, 15 Amp breaker) that has two colors and green (or 12 Gauge will work also) you should be good to go. Try to find cable with 2 colors like blk and red rather than black and white. You probably won't find wiring with 2 colors and green it will probably be white black and green you can get by with this but you should tape up the white wire with black or red electrical tape to eliminate future confusion that it might be a neutral wire, it's best to avoid using this configuration with the white wire if possible.


----------



## 65535 (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

I can wouldn't recommend 14 gauge for any run of 15A over 15 feet. Definitely not an in wall application. Run some good 12/3 wire to a 220/120V outlet which will allow you to have other things hooked up if you ever need a little extra juice.


----------



## StrikerDown (Apr 24, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*



65535 said:


> I can wouldn't recommend 14 gauge for any run of 15A over 15 feet. Definitely not an in wall application. Run some good 12/3 wire to a 220/120V outlet which will allow you to have other things hooked up if you ever need a little extra juice.



I wouldn't either, but his lathe is in the 7-9 amp range under nominal load. It definitely won't hurt a thing to use 12/3 and provides an extra safety margin (less v drop) on longer runs. 
The 15 amp Circuit breaker is there to protect the facility wiring and has nothing to do with protection outside of the wall outlet.


----------



## 65535 (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

I understand that, I go by breaker rating not machine rating, who knows what else could some day be put on that circuit that WILL draw more power. Better safe than sorry with in wall stuff. If it was a free standing cord or something, 14 would be great.


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

OK, I normally over machine, over weld, and over wire 

A 2 hp motor on 240 volt service will need about 10 amps under full load. Inrush surge on start will be around 60 amps for about a second. Depending on what brand of MCCB you have in your panel, 15A may well work - a Square D QO most likely would, a Square D HomeLine might or might not.

#12 wire allows using a 20A breaker. 20A is the most common breaker today, both in residential & in many commercial office buildings. Cost difference between #14 wire & #12 wire is minimal, as is cost difference between 15A and 20A breakers.

A 20A circuit does allow running a 3 hp motor on single phase (or 3ph using a VFD). A 15A circuit does limit your future options.


----------



## gt40 (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Precisionworks: Thanks for the info. I have a smaller box in the garage with 2 240v 30 amp breakers and 2 110. I am running the 5 hp IR compressor, 24" Agasanni band saw(3hp) and the new lathe and mill. I have the compressor and bandsaw setup as outlets so I can unplug them and plug in the plasma cutter or welder. If I hear you right, I will add a 20 amp 240 v circuit to the box and run the line to the lathe.

The main change is I will need to get 3 phase to the bridgeport. 

Another question- The jet is scheduled to be dropped off tues. Anyone have any suggestions on how to get it up on the 6 leg table it is going on? I dont know if my garage beaming could handle 1000 pound hoist. I was thinking I could rent an engine lift or something.


----------



## StrikerDown (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Or you could plug the lathe into one of the 30A outlets you already have like you do with the other equipment. But if you have room for another 20 amp 220V breaker it would mean less swapping around!


----------



## StrikerDown (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*



precisionworks said:


> OK, I normally over machine, over weld, and over wire
> 
> #12 wire allows using a 20A breaker. 20A is the most common breaker today, both in residential & in many commercial office buildings. Cost difference between #14 wire & #12 wire is minimal, as is cost difference between 15A and 20A breakers.
> 
> A 20A circuit does allow running a 3 hp motor on single phase (or 3ph using a VFD). A 15A circuit does limit your future options.




No disagreement, I too tend to over wire my own stuff also. The cost is not usually much more going larger and many times saves pulling in new larger wire when you upgrade. 
I formerly worked as an industrial electrician for the Dept Of Defense and they never allowed using larger than required circuitry, even to the point of pulling larger runs and replacing with smaller min required wiring. Stupid? Yup, but what ya gonna do, I think they called it job security!

I also have commercial electrician friends that would not dream of using anything larger than required. If they put in the minimum they can keep the bid low plus there is a chance they will get a call back for more work when the customer upgrades to larger equipment. Also job security!

GT40,

It sounds like you have the makings of a real nice shop there, I look forward to more pics as you get it all together.


----------



## gt40 (Apr 25, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

I ran some 12 size wire in an an enclosed conduit to the location of the lathe so it will get it's own mini breaker box. I can't wait to put it in. After cleaning up the 13x40 jet I am appreciating that some tools are best not made "mini" with lathes and mills coming to mind!


----------



## StrikerDown (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

If you have never run a lathe larger than your 8X12 you are in for a treat!

Most everything happens much easier with more rigidity, more power, more features and tons more size!

Don't forget the pics!


----------



## KC2IXE (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

heh - and as much as that Jet will be a suprize, the fun is when you go drom something like that to say a big sheldon/Monarch/Harding/LeBlond etc - a 12-14 (or even bigger) production/toolroom lathe


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 26, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*



> to say a big sheldon/Monarch/Harding/LeBlond


+1

At the mine repair shop, I ran the smallest lathe, an 18" Sidney, often making little pins (2" diameter x 12" long, mostly from 1144 Stressproof). The 24" Koping always had a big 4-jaw on the spindle, and it wasn't unusual to see a hunk of 4140 prehard chrome-moly being turned, sometimes 23.5" diameter, 24" long, solid round stock.

The big lathe was the Niles. She'd swing 72", although I never saw anything larger than 60" on that machine. Seems like the low speed was 12 rpm 







You may have already guessed what the big half circles are ... a steady rest the size of Texas.


----------



## gt40 (Apr 27, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

I found a local moving company and the lathe comes at 1pm today! The shop is giving me a steel 6 leg table for the lathe too. I hope I get the movers to put the lathe on the table. 

On to the mill: I found a local company to refurbish the Bridgeport. It works but needs some TLC. The company is Loomis Machinery in Lake Forest. The guy seemed very familar with the Bridgeport and said they can clean, paint and refurbish it. They are going to work on it at the shop it is at and take parts off to get done as necessary so I can just have it moved to my garage after it is done. Anyone heard of these guys?

Precisionworks: Thanks for the referral to Mary over at Walter Meier. She e-mailed me the complete manual and parts list.


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 27, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

The best known Bridgeport restoration company in the USA is J&L Scraping:

http://www.j-lscraping.com/

John posts his machines on the PM forum, here's one example:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machinery-sale-wanted/fs-bridgeport-42-table-184186/

I know of no other shop that does that kind of work. Nice to talk with on the phone also.


----------



## gt40 (Apr 27, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Update:

I took off work and moved the lathe in today. It was a long day
First hurtle was getting the lathe off the delivery truck. This was almost a disaster and the lathe nearly rolled off the lift on the way down. I got a couple cuts on the hand stopping it mid roll but nothing that won't heal. 
At least moving the lathe into the garage was at least easy as Road Race engineering loaned me a pallet jack. 


I had west la rentals drop off giant engine hoist for 28 bucks a day and the delivery guy took 50 bucks to help me get it on the table. 

I only had time to wipe it down and plug it in. The lathe power light goes on but no joy  You can push the jog or f/r buttons it makes a loud humming noise. The motor spins by hand, the spindle turns and you can shift through all gears cleanly and rotate it by hand but the darned motor doesn't do anything but that loud humming. I took the cover off and inspected all the gears and everything seems nice and oily and not worn at all. I don't know much about these larger motors so maybe it has some capacitor or something to help get it started or worst case I got a 5k lathe free for a motor.

Any trouble shooting suggestions would be appreciated!

Here are some pics:


On the table and wiped down:






Gear box:






"old" new lathe and "new" old lathe. I just got the hf 8x12 but she is going back to Road Race Engineering for my swap:







Here is a shot of the ways. There is a bit of surface rust. At least it isn't deep. I was going to go over it with some steel wool and navel jelly but any suggestions would be appreciated:






Other parts: 






Motor that doesn't seem to work:






At least I got it level:

side:





Front:





cross slide:






Finally, this arrived today:






The jet is a d1-4 spindle. I don't really know what that means but I guess there must be an adaptor plate for the bison 6" to go on the jet. Can I use any adaptor d1-4 plate or are they specific to each chuck?

I am beat but the lathe looks surprisingly functional underneath a lot of grime and neglect. I need help with motor issues but that's it for now.


----------



## 65535 (Apr 28, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*

Sounds like a start capacitor failure, a cheap replace if that's the case.

Heck I'd throw a VFD on there just for good measure. 

As for the rust on the ways, just wipe it down with good penetrating oil, maybe some mild abrasives but you'd have to remove them very well, and nothing that actually is harder than the cast iron or it will wear them in badly, but I wouldn't use steel wool and naval jelly for precision parts. But that's just me.


----------



## darkzero (Apr 28, 2010)

*Re: Possible swap: Jet for my hf 8x12 vfd*



gt40 said:


> I took off work and moved the lathe in today. It was a long day


 
Awesome, what a great opportunity! Congrats!




gt40 said:


> Road Race Engineering


 
As in the DSM specialists in Socal?




gt40 said:


> The jet is a d1-4 spindle. I don't really know what that means but I guess there must be an adaptor plate for the bison 6" to go on the jet. Can I use any adaptor d1-4 plate or are they specific to each chuck?


 
Yes you will need a specific adaptor for the Set Tru chuck. Bison P/N: 7-875-064. Don't think you can use any other Adjust Tru/Set Rite backplates as those are based on the Buck design. Enco has them for $214, no modifications needed, bolts right on (your chuck should have came with the three mounting bolts). You just missed a 20% off sale but the Westec show special is still good till 5/1 for %15 off (the card I had says 4/30 but I got another email stating good till 5/1).


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 28, 2010)

You may also want to check with Rocky at Ajax Industries - tell him I suggested you call & he'll either lower or raise the price 

The preload adjustment collar is the black ring left of the gear farthest from the chuck:






Don't try to reset this until you have (or make) the tools needed to loosen & tighten the rings.

The oil level gauge for the head stock bearings is the clear (sometimes hazy) plastic circle lower left in this photo:






There's a red line that shows correct oil level. Since the oil in both the front & rear bearings (they have separate level indicators) may be older than old, you may want to drain both & replace with a Light Spindle Oil like Mobil Velocite, or whatever oil Jet recommends. If any dark particles drain out, refill & run for five minutes and drain again. Repeat until the oil runs crystal clear & your bearings with thank you. If you ever get ambitious or inherit a fortune, the ABEC-1 bearings can be replaced with ABEC-7 bearings ... cost is little more than an Alaskan cruise


----------



## gt40 (Apr 28, 2010)

I talked to the gal precisionworks referred me to at Walter Meier in tech support and she thinks the motor is fine but motor capacitor or centrifugal switch are likely culprits. They were cheap so I ordered both- 25 bucks. I also ordered the d1-4 plate from enco(thanks darkzero for the coupon!) and some Mobil DTEOil Heavy Medium. 

On the other hand my ge 90v shunt 1hp motor just arrived. It shows 10 amps. Would I lose much using it with a proper sized pully over the roc "2 hp" motor the jet came with? I would gain variable speed an I already have the fancy kb controller I bought for the hf 8x12. I would need to fabricate a mount and some way for the jet electrical to interphase with the kb box. I guess I could have the 240 v going to the jet motor go to the kb box and then send the 90v dc back to the motor somehow. If there is anyone local in socal that has electrical experience, I could use help as I am definitely getting over my head here.


----------



## 65535 (Apr 28, 2010)

Assuming they are true ratings and within a few percent of being accurate then you lose one half power.


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 28, 2010)

> you lose one half power


+1

Half the horsepower, half the torque, not a good plan :mecry:

The Jet motors are pretty stout, and 2 hp really means 2 hp. The switch & the cap will put you back in business.


----------



## 65535 (Apr 28, 2010)

I'm located in Irvine, off the 405. I'm not a licensed electrician or anything, but I have a pretty good knowledge of the subject if you need some local help, not sure where you are located.

I personally recommend a VFD and a 2HP spindle motor on that unit maybe even a 3HP.


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 28, 2010)

> VFD and a 2HP spindle motor on that unit maybe even a 3HP


+1

The 3hp motor gives 50% more torque across the entire rpm range, and torque is king in most machine tool operations. Currently 3hp is the largest motor that can be VFD powered for a low price, the reason that all my VFD's drive 3hp motors. And there are a few more 3hp motors on the shelf, waiting for some down time to build the next project.

Not a lot more cost than a 2hp motor & 2hp drive, but much more performance - especially at low speeds.


----------



## darkzero (Apr 28, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> You may also want to check with Rocky at Ajax Industries


 
I keep forgetting about them. 

After all I did purchase my chuck & adapter from them which still came out cheaper than using a coupon at MSC or Enco. But $182 from Enco is still a pretty good deal. :thumbsup:


----------



## gt40 (Apr 28, 2010)

darkzero said:


> I keep forgetting about them.
> 
> After all I did purchase my chuck & adapter from them which still came out cheaper than using a coupon at MSC or Enco. But $182 from Enco is still a pretty good deal. :thumbsup:


 
Yeah, I ordered the adaptor today from enco with 2 gallons of dte heavy med. In response to your earlier question about RRE. Yeah same firm known in dsm land. Mike Welch donated the machinery but we are friends and mutual clients for many years. Here is my car and his work: www.mccomsey.net/evo/ I used to run a racing school out of Willow Springs and have the 550whp daily driver now that has been featured in a few mags


----------



## wquiles (Apr 29, 2010)

gt40 said:


> Here is my car and his work: www.mccomsey.net/evo/ I used to run a racing school out of Willow Springs and have the 550whp daily driver now that has been featured in a few mags


VERY impressive work on the Evo :twothumbs


----------



## gt40 (Apr 29, 2010)

Thanks- It has been a 7 year project.


----------



## Mettee (Apr 29, 2010)

yeah that EVO looks like its pretty pissed off. Nice rig.


----------



## gt40 (Apr 30, 2010)

I just won a new Dorian SD35CXA tool post for $200 

The lathe may have been cheap but between the Bison 6 jaw and other stuff I got for it, damn...
*NEW DORIAN SD35CXA LATHE 2 POSITION TOOL POST *

Item condition:*New*Ended:Apr 30, 201013:41:21 PDTBid history:8 bids

Winning bid:*US $199.99*


----------



## 65535 (Apr 30, 2010)

It isn't a new wedge style, but that thing should be more then enough for the 13" swing, being a CXA and all.


----------



## precisionworks (Apr 30, 2010)

> that thing should be more then enough for the 13" swing


The tools on my 14" lathe sit pretty low on the post, maybe 1/4" above the cross slide. The CXA will probably work on a 13" swing but you may need to face off either the bottom of the blocks, or the bottom of the insert holder shanks. Not a big deal either way, and the Dorian (or Aloris) CXA is a sturdy post & a pleasure to use


----------



## 65535 (Apr 30, 2010)

PSH, just shim up the entire headstock an inch turn it into a 14" swing. HEHEHE.  Don't forget to shim up the tailstock too.


----------



## gt40 (Apr 30, 2010)

I found out what was wrong with the motor- Fried centrifugal switch.

Here is the burned one:







Here is what it is supposed to look like:




http://www.mccomsey.net/lathe/jet/centrifugal.gif

It took me a while to figure out how the thing worked and the part that expands was missing the springs. I went to Osh and got some that seem to fit and tried it.... and 

IT Works!

All week, trouble shooting and waiting for parts and the motor ran smooth and strong after replacing a silly 5 dollar part. and couple of springs.

Of course, I had the top cover off the gears and it sprayed me nicely with gear oil when it started but I was so happy to just hear the motor run.

Fresh oil in this weekend anyway.

Here is what the switch installed looks like. It was hidden under the fan:


----------



## 65535 (May 1, 2010)

Wow, never seen a switch fry quite that bad, at least not a cent. Switch, glad you got it running, in all honesty aside from burnig out windings fom overheating or cheap insulation, induction motors are truly nearly impossible to kill. Start caps, run caps, and switches are the exception those fry readily. That's why I like 3Ph just a lot o expensive windings.


----------



## gt40 (May 2, 2010)

I put all new oil in the Jet today, mounted the Bison 6 jaw, ran new wiring for a small breaker box and actually cut a few chips at the end of the day. Here are some pics after an initial once over:





















Temporary switch solution:





Video of it starting and running at 2k rpm:

http://vimeo.com/11413355

It seemed to hesitate on the ramp up for a second and it only does this at 2k setting. Not sure why but I ran it for 1/2 hour and then changed the gear oil since it was so nasty originally.

I am looking forward to putting the Dorian CXA and getting some holders for it. Any recomendations for "reasonable" cxa holders that aren't complete junk?


----------



## gadget_lover (May 2, 2010)

It sounded pretty good for an old piece of junk. Quite good. 

I suspect that it's slow to start because at 2000 RPM the torque is reduced enough that it's taking the full power of the motor to overcome the inertia.

Daniel


----------



## StrikerDown (May 3, 2010)

My lathe takes a little extra time to spin up on the high speed also. Like Daniel said that is a lot of mass to accelerate to top speed.

Beautiful CHUCK!

Damn it!


----------



## 65535 (May 3, 2010)

Something is up with that motor, the cent. switch should NOT glow like a blue LED. Watch the bottom right corner of the video. Not sure what's up, but that new switch won't last long arcing like that. It should ramp up much more smoothly, not hiccup mid range.


----------



## cmacclel (May 4, 2010)

65535 said:


> Something is up with that motor, the cent. switch should NOT glow like a blue LED. Watch the bottom right corner of the video. Not sure what's up, but that new switch won't last long arcing like that. It should ramp up much more smoothly, not hiccup mid range.


 

Yes everytime the motor hickups you can see it arcing! I would inspect that new part you installed.

As for holders I have the first time Dorian starter set with indexable tooling brand new in size CXA. PM me if your interested.

Mac


----------



## precisionworks (May 4, 2010)

> seemed to hesitate on the ramp up for a second and it only does this at 2k setting


My lathe instantly comes up to speed at all rpms ... as long as the wimpy 6" direct mount chuck is on the spindle. The 8" SetTru plus adapter plate weigh twice as much & spin up is noticeably longer - with a 3 hp, 3ph motor.



> Any recomendations for "reasonable" cxa holders that aren't complete junk?


Either Dorian or Aloris, everything else is subject to the luck of the draw. Enco had a 25% off everything special about a month ago, making the CXA-1 holder $58 with free shipping - about what used ones sell for on eBay. 

Also check the PM forum *Tooling, Parts and Accessories For Sale or Wanted *I picked up these three today ...

CXA-4 - HD boring bar holder
CXA-41 Extra HD boring bar holder
CXA-36 5C collet holder 

$150 for all three delivered 

And don't forget Joe at Plaza Machinery, who has everything you'll ever need


----------



## gt40 (May 4, 2010)

I ordered the second part of the centrifugal switch assembly after talking to tech support. There is the plate piece I posted about and a rotating piece that pushes in as it expands. Hopefully that will fix the arcing. I also ordered about a 150 bucks worth of knobs and stuff that seemed worse for wear. 

Thanks for the reminder on Plaza. Joe seems to have a lot of stuff. I will have to go through the list again.


----------



## precisionworks (May 4, 2010)

> Thanks for the reminder on Plaza. Joe seems to have a lot of stuff.


+1

When you see an item (or a few) that you want, send an email & Joe normally responds quickly with availability & shipping cost. He requires check or money order, no credit card or PayPal. Joe reminds me Dave Sobel, who passed in 2008. One price, no haggle, checks only, no computer, and every South Bend part ever made. Really was a swell guy, and Joe is very much like Dave.

Photos of Dave's shop in 1998 - drooling is allowed: http://dogpatch.com/bobp/sobel.htm


----------



## KC2IXE (May 5, 2010)

No pictures if the "Good Stuff" that Dave had on the wall right outside the office - Some of the watchmakers stuff, and some of the stuff he was keeping - you know, right behind the Deckel. And I think you only got photos of 2 of the 3 bays of "stuff" Dave had

Sigh Bought and sold stuff there more than once - was a good place to just go hang on a Saturday AM


----------



## gt40 (May 6, 2010)

After seeing all the good info here on lathe leveling, I found some Barrymount LM5-B leveling bases on Ebay. They have multiple sets and I got them for $50.00. These things are giant and way overkill for my 1200 pound lathe.

Specs:
[SIZE=-1]Model: Barrymount LM5-B[/SIZE]

Load rating: [SIZE=-1]1,000-4,200 lbs. [/SIZE]
Diameter: [SIZE=-1]6.335"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Height: 1.625" [/SIZE]
Bolt size: [SIZE=-1].75-10 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Bolt length: [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]5" [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]5.2 lbs. [/SIZE]

If anyone needs leveling bases, pm me and I will send you the link. Here are some pics:








Underside:





3/4" hole for bolt:






6" WIDE:





I had trouble finding 3/4"-10 x 5" bolts that Barry Controls specifies. Almost ordered a $100 dollars worth of over priced bolts from fastenal and then decided to buy a 24" piece of carbon threaded rod at the b&b hardware + 12 nuts. Cost was 15.00 and I will weld one set of the bolts to 5" cut pieces of the rod to "make the bolts. It is suprisingly hard to find a 5" fully threaded 3/4" bolt. The ones at osh and anawalt are only threaded on the ends.

I am going to weld cross legs to my table for the Barrymount bases to give them a wider footprint.


----------



## gt40 (May 10, 2010)

Finally got to cut chips! It is so amazing how well finished things come out with the power feed. I was also nice having a motor with a little torque. I got a little greedy testing my 5/8" solid carbide boring bar ebay special and this happened:
















Don't know whether it was entirely me being stupid or ebay boring bar but probably operator error. It happened without any bogging, hesitation etc. On second I was taking a cut and then wammo


----------



## 65535 (May 11, 2010)

Poor boring bar, you could grind it into a sweat radius tool or smooth finishing tool, if it's a good quality carbide that is, and if you have diamond grinding tooling.

Was it coolant through?


----------



## Rothrandir (May 11, 2010)

What kind of depth of cut and feedrate were you pushing that boring bar at?

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned Ajax, and I just wanted to add a word of caution regarding them. A few years ago I placed an order for a few things from them, a couple sets of CNC lathe softjaws and a few other items.
It took repeated calls and well over a month (if memory serves) to finally get the things I ordered. I have never had such horrible service anywhere. I got the runaround, got lied to, etc. When I finally did get the items I ordered, the softjaws were absolute CRAP quality. The steel they used cut like junk and the serrated teeth on the bottom were not only spaced wrong (so that the jaws weren't concentric with eachother), but looked like they were cut with an insert that went dull 10 years ago and has kept running ever since.


----------



## precisionworks (May 11, 2010)

> Ajax, and I just wanted to add a word of caution


Ajax still sells both low end items as well as best quality tools like Bison. If you talk only with one person there, like Rocky, service is outstanding. Some of the others seem less knowledgeable. 






From the photo, it appears the break happened at the junction of the carbide bar & the steel head. The upper left corner of the photo looks like there was no brazing material in that section, probably what caused the separation.


----------



## gt40 (May 14, 2010)

UPS came today with some new stuff:






new boring bar- plain steel for now till I find a decent priced carbide one to replace the broke one. This one is 12" long x3/4" and will use the fancy ccmt ha inserts I had left from the hf lathe:






Aloris CXA-9 tool holder. It is seriously heavy. It has 5/8" slots in it and is double ended so you can load it up with multiple tools. I got this for 45 bucks:











Dorian radius cutter:





Better shot of the head:





Here is a pic of the inserts:






Here is another shot with my thumb in there to show how friggin big the insert is:






I got this to actually use on the lathe even though it is a mill cutter. I will see how it rounds the ribs on bodies I want to cut and the area around the lens. It was ebay special for 50 bucks so what the hay! I can always use it later when I pick up the bridgeport...


----------



## Tom Anderson (May 14, 2010)

That's some serious looking tooling you have there! :thumbsup:


----------



## gt40 (May 18, 2010)

Just added a chuck. Albreicht from ebay. Seems in pretty good shape. There is absolutely no slop at all. Everything is tight and it adjusts really smooth. It is a 1/8"- 5/8" size:











I tried a little threading and found out the threading dial isn't turning so I have to figure out what is going on there


----------



## precisionworks (May 18, 2010)

> tried a little threading and found out the threading dial isn't turning


A thread dial is dead simple ...dial (on top) connected by shaft to worm gear on bottom:






Sometimes, the shaft will get loose at either the worm gear or the dial. Some are press fits at both ends, some use a set screw retainer at one or both ends. It should be easy to fix


----------



## StrikerDown (May 18, 2010)

The dial pivots on it's mount to engage the worm gear. Pull out on the dial end to engage the worm gear in the lead screw. It also stops turning when you engage the half nut to cut threads.

Unless something is broken! like Barry said it's a simple part!


----------



## gt40 (May 18, 2010)

You guys are awesome! I am sure this is it because it was working before I took stuff apart to clean it and I probably moved the gear away from the worm...


----------



## 65535 (May 18, 2010)

I hope you checked the tailstock taper for rust and other crap and didn't find any before you put that Albrecht in there. Judging by the amount of surface rust and corrosion on that I would imagine the taper might benefit from a reaming like a lot of guys have been doing lately. You don't want to find out the hard way and scar the Albrecht shank.


----------



## gt40 (May 28, 2010)

65535 said:


> I hope you checked the tailstock taper for rust and other crap and didn't find any before you put that Albrecht in there. Judging by the amount of surface rust and corrosion on that I would imagine the taper might benefit from a reaming like a lot of guys have been doing lately. You don't want to find out the hard way and scar the Albrecht shank.


 
Had to do electrolytic cleaning of the tail stock but now the rust is gone. Added a few upgrades:

shard shield for the wifey:






CXA tools so far:






random tool pics from the shop:


----------



## 65535 (May 28, 2010)

I'd say do yourself a favor and just ream that taper, if there was rust in there it's probably pitted which won't help the taper tighten up properly.


----------



## precisionworks (May 28, 2010)

Your machine is looking great :thumbsup:



> CXA tools so far:



The BXA & CXA are the most common Aloris & Dorian sizes, and there are always some on eBay, PM forum, and Plaza Machinery. The 1" boring bar holder (with a bushing to hold a 3/4" bar) is a must have. Joe at Plaza lists an Aloris CXA-4 for $70, but you'll want to email to check availability & shipping cost:

[email protected]azamachinery.com



> do yourself a favor and just ream that taper


+1

It's easy enough to do, requiring only a finishing reamer of the correct MT (I believe your machine uses MT3 for the tailstock). See post #100 in this thread: 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/264523&page=4

About once a year does the job for me. If you are careful to always wipe the shank of any tooling before seating into the socket, the time between reamings can go longer. The amount of metal removed each time is tiny, probably a tenth or two on the inside diameter.


----------



## gt40 (May 28, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> Your machine is looking great :thumbsup:
> 
> Here is what it looked like before:
> 
> ...


----------



## gt40 (May 29, 2010)

Got the new MTECH dro half way installed with the shorter glass slide mounted + the display. The "kit" came with a large assortment of l brackets and screws etc. I am sure all that stuff fits some machine but I ended up just making the stuff to mount it. It was just easier for me to measure and make a mounting pad and tap a couple of holes. 

All and all, I am really happy with it based upon initial impressions. I did make a goof though and ordered a bigger scale than necessary for the cross slide. It works though and that is what matters to me. 

Here are a couple of pics:
mounting pad:




Glass scale mounted before cover is put on it:





Display:


----------



## darkzero (May 29, 2010)

Wow, that really did clean up very nice, I'm amazed! Good work. :thumbsup:


----------



## 65535 (May 30, 2010)

That looks amazing compared to the before pictures, course the new chuck and the new tool post don't hurt a bit hehe.

Any particular reason you have the compound slide turned around, I imagine it's so you don't accidentally turn it and screw up your position in relation to the DRO, I think Will or darkzero just removed the handles. My only concern would be a large part interfering.


----------



## 65535 (May 30, 2010)

Also, you may consider fabricating a lock for the compound to "lock it out" so there is no issues with the small backlash on its leadscrew.


----------



## gt40 (May 30, 2010)

The compound is sitting that way because I was in the middle of the dro install and was moving everything to check for clearance. I don't really seem to have any real backlash on the compound but that is a good idea to add a lockout for it.


----------



## darkzero (May 30, 2010)

65535 said:


> I think Will or darkzero just removed the handles.


 
Nope, not me. I couldn't live without the use of the compound slide, I use it quite often. I do however keep the gib on the compound slide on the tighter side to help unwanted movement or slight accidental bumping.


----------



## darkzero (May 30, 2010)

gt40 said:


> I did make a goof though and ordered a bigger scale than necessary for the cross slide. It works though and that is what matters to me.


 
Is it blocking your carriage lock bolt? It appears like it in the pic. If yes, that's something to consider adjusting for cause that is a very useful feature of the lathe.


----------



## wquiles (May 30, 2010)

darkzero said:


> Nope, not me. I couldn't live without the use of the compound slide, I use it quite often.



Yup, that was me who removed the handles, and it is funny how I am quite the opposite - I hardly ever use the compound


----------



## precisionworks (May 30, 2010)

> I couldn't live without the use of the compound slide


+1

Mine stays in the normal 30 degree position (with respect to center line). That allows infeeding a boring bar to easily cut an inside and outside chamfer on a tubular part. Sometimes the compound is swung way around so it points to the front of the machine, which may be the only way to do some ops.

Another advantage of the 30 degree setting is that the compound can be advanced forward, which gives more room to work before the chuck hits the carriage.


----------



## gt40 (May 31, 2010)

darkzero said:


> Is it blocking your carriage lock bolt? It appears like it in the pic. If yes, that's something to consider adjusting for cause that is a very useful feature of the lathe.


 
I have made a "stubby" hex key that fits the carriage lock bolt just fine. I debated on mounting the dro scale in the front vs back and it came down to the scale is safer on the back side. 

My previous experience on this issue was very specific: I had just put on dro on the hf 8x12 and mounted it like wquiles did in his 8x12 thread.(neat magnet trick btw). I was playing around with a piece of copper and it came out of the chuck and totally destroyed the chinese scale mounted in the "front" position. I am fairly new to lathes but the energy of something coming loose from a chuck definitely sticks in my mind. The scale display was literally smashed like a big sledge hit it. I could only imagine a chuck coming loose at speed.

Anyway, the DRO mounting is all done and I am ready to try making stuff:







Long glass scale with my mounting backet. I was able to use existing holes on the lathe for this:





Display inputs etc:






After putting the new lighting in the shop, I can really see better but it was really a bit bright with 24k lumen 6 bulb light overhead so I made a shade for the dro display out of scap foam core. I will have to make something better but it works for now:






http://www.mccomsey.net/lathe/drodone2.jpg


----------

