# Best AA Rechargeable Batteries and Charger



## soloz2 (Aug 12, 2012)

I would like to switch to using low self discharge batteries instead of regular batteries in several of my electronic devices. To be honest, I haven't had the best experience with rechargeable batteries in the past, but I think that was mostly my own fault for forgetting to charge them before using them.

I looked through an old camera case and came up with:
8 Energizer 2500 mAh AA batteries that say high energy rechargable on them
4 Duracell 1800 mAh AA batteries that say accu on them
6 Rayovac hybrid 2100 mAh AA batteries - I understand these are actually LSD cells
an Energizer CHDC charger and a Rayovac PS32 charger

These batteries were all intended for digital camera use. I stopped using them as I wasn't happy with the runtime and I never seemed to remember to charge the batteries before use. From what I've recently discovered is that the Rayovac Hybrid are actually LSD. I have not charged these batteries in at least 12-14 months as I know I haven't used or charged these batteries since before I moved last July. After learning that these were LSD cells I put two of them in one of my Icon Rogue 2 lights but no dice. I then took a different two and low and behold the light works great. It's a bit less bright than with the new Energizer alcaline cells that I took out, but I find that impressive nonetheless.
I stopped using these batteries as I was not happy with their performance in my Canon digital camera. From doing some reading I see they tend to drop to a bit over 1v under load so I have a feeling Eneloops would work better in the same camera as they are supposed to hold a higher voltage under load. I'm wondering if my camera just thought they were dead due to the voltage drop even though they were not. I plan to use these batteries in flashlights. I have 2 Icon Rogue 2's and one or two Maglite Mini LED's that these will probably work nicely in. I also have a few non-LED mini maglites.

Seeing that I have a Fenix LD01 on the way to be my new EDC light I picked up a pack of Duracell precharged batteries at Staples yesterday. They are the made in Japan/white cap version that are commonly referred to as Duraloops. It is my understanding that these are just as good as the Sanyo Eneloops (if they aren't just rebadged) 

I did a couple quick searches and I found that both chargers I have are 'dumb' timed chargers and will not be the best for long term use of any new batteries that I purchase so I would like to get a good 'smart' charger. I don't see the need to spend $50 or more on a charger, but I've found a few that might work well and wanted to see which would be best or if I've missed anything.

Duracell CEF23 under $20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004B9ZK4M/?tag=cpf0b6-20
This is the Australian version, but apparently it is the same and comes with 4 AA batteries. There is a chance these might be duraloops too? This seems like the most economical option for a non-used charger

Sony BCG34 $33
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DL9WDG/?tag=cpf0b6-20
Comes with 4 precharged Sony AA batteries that will likely be more similar to the Rayovac Hybrids than Sanyo Eneloops?

Lacrosse BC-700 $30
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RSOV50/?tag=cpf0b6-20
This seems like the best charger out of the bunch as it is more customization and will also discharge (not sure I need that though) it does not come with any batteries making this the most expensive option.

Are there any other options that I'm overlooking? I was looking at possibly getting this Sanyo Eneloop kit that comes with a charger. Is this a smart charger? If this is a good smart charger than I would probably just get the kit and call it a day.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058N6JUE/?tag=cpf0b6-20


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 12, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

I was in your boat in January. I ponied up and got the LC BC-700 and the Maha C-9000 just to fiddle with both. I travel with the BC-700, as it's much smaller.

For batteries, I went with Sanyo 2700 AAs, AccuPower 2900 AA/AAAs, GP ReCyKo 2050 AA LSDs, Eneloop AA/AAA LSDs and some Imedion 2400 AA LSDs.

I have no problems with the Sanyos and AP HSDs, but were I to do it all over again, I'd just buy Eneloops and be done with it. You can get them for under $10 shipped, in sealed blister packs from reputable vendors. 

I'm almost at 6 months of a 12 month LSD shootout with the Eneloops, GP ReCyKos and the Imedions. I cycled and charged up 4 of each new battery, measured things, notated charging parameters and I'll discharge them early next year and see if the GPs and the Imedions are ultimately worth the trouble.

Chris


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## lwknight (Aug 12, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

I would chunk all the batteries that you mentioned. A few years back I swore off rechargeable batteries because they were all CRAP!! It seemed like every week one died and they were always discharged even after only a few weeks.
Recently ( a few months ago) I learned about Eneloops and a few other LSD batteries. I got a 2 dozen or so eneloops by now and 8 eneloop XX in my TK41. I could not be happier with the performance.
I resolved that energizer lithium was the only choice in my digi-cam till I tried Eneloops. WOW!! They just last and last till you get bored trying to run them down.
I have not tested the XX in my digital camera yet but I would bet that are even better than the regular eneloops.

You can find the 4-packs on Amazon if you keep looking for right at $10.00 and of course there will be some of the same thing for near double that. That said, I also don't really see the justification for the XX when they cost twice as much and don't have all that much more for normal usage like digital cameras.

As for the charger the Sysmax i4 is about 25 bucks and the Maha 9000 ( Cadillac of chargers ) runs around $55.00 average.


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## soloz2 (Aug 12, 2012)

This one?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007P5T1S0/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Which is better between the i4 and lacrosse? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


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## fiberguy (Aug 13, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

Go to CPF marketplace, click on good deals, and in the first few threads you should see one about eneloop glitter at adorama, $20 for 8 cells. These ALL out-tested my standard eneloops. Each cell has a capacity over 2000 mAh. These cells are where it's at. You won't have any problems throwing away the other cells after that.


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## moldyoldy (Aug 13, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



soloz2 said:


> I would like to switch to using low self discharge batteries instead of regular batteries in several of my electronic devices. To be honest, I haven't had the best experience with rechargeable batteries in the past, but I think that was mostly my own fault for forgetting to charge them before using them.
> 
> I looked through an old camera case and came up with:
> 8 Energizer 2500 mAh AA batteries that say high energy rechargable on them
> ...



To respond to the charger question: 

The Sony BCG34 or the earlier version with the LCD display has been used by my extended family in the US and Germany as well as several trademen in the US w/o any reported problems and no failures. It also has a discharge function. The single disadvantage for a flashaholic is that there are no settings for the charge or discharge. That is an advantage when the average population is involved. The Sony Cyclenergy cells have proven to be LSD cells and tests with the BC-900 indicate that they all comply with their spec - to the extent of the BC-900 capabilities.

The LC BC-700 is a good charger. I had two BC-900 and two BC-700 chargers and had no problems over several years. Note that I very rarely used the 1000ma or higher charge rate available on the BC-900. I limit myself to the 350ma discharge and 700 ma charge rates with no problems. Due to prep'ing for a move eventually to Germany, I am down to a single BC-900, primarily because I was offered a deal for the pair of BC-700s.

Alternatively if you are squeezed for space, check out this 2-slot smart charger with independent slots although a single readout:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005AVH3VS/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I have several copies of this charger and have handed it out to several people with no reported problems.


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## moldyoldy (Aug 13, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

forgot one more charger: The Titanium 4-slot smart charger with LCD display and a discharge function available from BatteryJunction. Check out the sticky compilation by Unforgiven at the top of the forum with testing of a variety of AA chargers by Silverfox. His ratings for this charger were reasonable as well.


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## lwknight (Aug 13, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

I would say to stay away from the "Titaniun MD-3000" completely. The cells get really hot and still don't even get a full charge.


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## soloz2 (Aug 13, 2012)

moldyoldy said:


> To respond to the charger question:
> 
> The Sony BCG34 or the earlier version with the LCD display has been used by my extended family in the US and Germany as well as several trademen in the US w/o any reported problems and no failures. It also has a discharge function. The single disadvantage for a flashaholic is that there are no settings for the charge or discharge. That is an advantage when the average population is involved. The Sony Cyclenergy cells have proven to be LSD cells and tests with the BC-900 indicate that they all comply with their spec - to the extent of the BC-900 capabilities.
> 
> ...



So this charger for under $13 shipped will get me started and I won't have to worry about overcharging my new batteries? I'm liking this price as it will allow me to spend more on actual cells. I can always upgrade later. It would travel well in a camera case or car too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


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## moldyoldy (Aug 13, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



soloz2 said:


> So this charger for under $13 shipped will get me started and I won't have to worry about overcharging my new batteries? I'm liking this price as it will allow me to spend more on actual cells. I can always upgrade later. It would travel well in a camera case or car too.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2



yes, to the extent of my experience with 7 copies of this charger (so far) as they passed thru my hands and used each of them a couple times as a check before passing them off to non-flashaholics. No problems were reported from the recipients.

Comments on this Sanyo charger: It is a "smart" charger with 1 or 2 cell capability, but either AAA or AA capability, not both at the same time because the adapter bar flips up or down for both slots. The single LED serves both slots. When the LED turns off, whatever cells are in the slots are charged. You can insert another cell of the same size at any time w/o affecting the first cell. The disadvantage is that you do not know which cell may already be finished to be able to use. Per the sheet of paper that serves as a "manual", there is a bad cell rejection, which I assume is based on high resistance. Although the termination method was not stated, based on the heating of the cells, it appears to be something like the -dV method.


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## moldyoldy (Aug 13, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

an additional comment on the Sanyo 2-slot charger purchase source: Amazon appears to be offering this charger with the older Eneloop cells or the later 1500 cycle Eneloop cells. Your choice which one. I have not seen any offering that lists the 1800 cycle Eneloop, which I am not sure exists.


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## moldyoldy (Aug 13, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

yet another comment on the Sanyo 2-slot charger: I have not observed any problems with initiating a charge on a NiMH cell that was nearly zero volts. Some chargers will refuse to initiate charging until the cell voltage is at some level.


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## soloz2 (Aug 13, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up.

I registered on CPF marketplace, but don't see a deals section. Do I have to have a certain number of posts before gaining access? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


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## moldyoldy (Aug 13, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



soloz2 said:


> Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> I registered on CPF marketplace, but don't see a deals section. Do I have to have a certain number of posts before gaining access?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2



Correct, I believe the needed number of posts is 2, after which the Good Deals section will show up in forum list. There should be a statement in the Marketplace administrative section.

Similarly, note that the Budget Light forum on CPF itself does not show up until the CPF member has logged in.


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## soloz2 (Aug 13, 2012)

Gotcha. Ill have to spend some time over there. I did see some glow in the dark lanyards that look pretty sweet.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


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## Wacki (Aug 19, 2012)

*Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

From what I can tell these are the two leaders in AA/AAA chargers:




Maha MH-C9000
Lacrosse Technology BC1000

Is the MH-C9000 still considered better than the Lacrosse BC1000? Is there another competitor I should look at? Just getting an up to date forum consensus.

Older threads on this topic:[/COLOR][/h]
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...rosse-Technology-BC1000-Alpha-battery-charger


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## moldyoldy (Aug 19, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



Wacki said:


> From what I can tell these are the two leaders in AA/AAA chargers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



THe Maha C9000 is better than the BC1000, or BC900, or BC700. However do pay attention to the UI differences. Also, the size of the C9000 is large, which keeps the cells cooler for sure, but also takes a lot of space in a carry-on luggage.

There are good chargers in the "small" size as well. Check out the sticky by Unforgiven at the top of the forum. Inside is a comparison of AA chargers by Silverfox. Many of the chargers are still sold. The Titanium TG2800 is my preference from that list, primarily because I travel a lot.


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## jais (Aug 19, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

How about Low Self-Discharge Rechargeable batteries like Tenergy and Camelion? Are these good?


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## jais (Aug 19, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



soloz2 said:


> Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> I registered on CPF marketplace, but don't see a deals section. Do I have to have a certain number of posts before gaining access?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2



After 3 posts will resolve it.


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## moldyoldy (Aug 19, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



jais said:


> How about Low Self-Discharge Rechargeable batteries like Tenergy and Camelion? Are these good?



It would be helpful if we knew which lights you planned to use these LSD NiMH cells in. Some lights draw very high currents, in the 2.5A range. 

Tests and graphs on CPF show Eneloop to be the best at holding the voltage up during high-currents. So, for example, if you were looking for LSD cells to be used in an electronic flash, then Eneloop would be the preference. 

FWIW, I have Eneloop, Imedion, and Sony CycleEnergy (or something like that). They all have demonstrated sufficient low self-discharge characteristics, including use in a computer mouse.


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## apagogeas (Aug 20, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



jais said:


> How about Low Self-Discharge Rechargeable batteries like Tenergy and Camelion? Are these good?



I have good results from Camelion AlwaysReady AA 800mAh, which actually deliver 850-900mAh capacity. Almost 4 months in my remotes, still voltage is above 1.30V (and very consistent among the batteries in each device, maximum voltage difference is 0.001V) although these remotes are slightly used but the low-self discharge aspect seems to be ok and at 1/5 the cost of an Eneloop. Also used in wireless mouse/toothbrush/hand mixer and they can last 2-3 weeks and more with heavy use. I can't comment on the higher capacity AlwaysReady performance however, probably those 2300/2500mAh may not be as good in self-discharge.
On the other hand, I wanted some cheap batteries and, stupid me, I got those Tronic Energy 2500mAh for use in a UV insect killer assuming the higher capacity available with give more running time and don't feel sorry if they are reverse charged by draining them down completely at night. Probably my worst buy ever, maha shows around 1200-1300mAh capacity out of the box after a break-in and accept a similar charge (1200-1400) when the device turns off - so really, where is that 2500mAh capacity in first place? They do the job, the device works for 5-6 hours till it switches off - enough time to kill all flying cruel bugs - however they don't last that much compared to some 2000mAh batteries I initially used (which were fully drained by the same device). They just can't sustain 1A pulsed drain done by Maha and the same poor behavior exhibited in actual usage.
My next test will be to check if these can actually accept 2500mAh charge. I have an older charger with a discharge capability down to 0V which can be ideal for deep discharges, way beyond what maha can do. I'll do that and recharge them in maha just to check how much charge they'll accept after that.


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## moldyoldy (Aug 23, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



soloz2 said:


> So this charger for under $13 shipped will get me started and I won't have to worry about overcharging my new batteries? I'm liking this price as it will allow me to spend more on actual cells. I can always upgrade later. It would travel well in a camera case or car too.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2



reference: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005AVH3VS/?tag=cpf0b6-20

update: one of the tests that I perform on AA chargers that are unknown to me is to charge 4 relatively new cells from total discharged (<1v) in the BC-900 to fully charged on the unknown and known chargers, then discharge those cells on the BC-900/700 and compare the mah capacities. The Sanyo 2-slot charger charged 4 almost new Eneloop AA cells to essentially the same capacity as a Titanium TG-2800 charger. The actual values varied between 2.05 and 2.07mah and were indistinguishable between chargers. Admittedly I had only one copy of the TG-2800 charger, but 4 Sanyo 2-slot chargers. and it did not make any difference whether I charged one or two AA cells in the Sanyo charger.

Note: The Titanium TG-2800 charger has a discharge function, but the discharge milliamp rate is too slow for my patience.

Actually, the last batch of 16 Eneloop AA cells were all remarkably consistent in that range. A tribute to Eneloop quality control as sourced from Thomas Distributing.
.


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## LEDninja (Aug 23, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



soloz2 said:


> Duracell CEF23 under $20
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004B9ZK4M/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> This is the Australian version, but apparently it is the same and comes with 4 AA batteries. There is a chance these might be duraloops too? This seems like the most economical option for a non-used charger


The Duracell charger comes from China so gets bundled with Chinese made 'black top' batteries. My digital camera thinks they are empty when they are still half full. They will still run in my flashlights for another half hour or more on max. I get twice as many shots with Eneloops or Duraloops (Duracell 'white top' batteries made in Japan). Those 'black top' batteries will drop to 60% charge in a year if charged and not used. The Eneloops drop to 80%.

The Duracell charger can only charge 2 or 4 cells which is a problem for a single cell LD01. Make sure you buy a charger that clearly states it can charge 1, 2, 3, 4 cells.

Your existing NiMH charger(s) can charge LSD NiMH batteries. No need to buy another charger. Just get the batteries.


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## Schermann (Aug 23, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

Lacrosse Technology BC1000 has a reputation of melting batteries with a plastic fire on occasions. I could not recommend it for the fear of your house burning down in that 1 in a 1000 chance you got the dodgy one that does this! Be safe and go with the MH-C9000 as you have the assurance of many members here that it is the right choice...


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## blo9 (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

Check out the Sanyo NC-MQR06. It has induvidual channels and it is possible to mix sizes at the same time.
http://www.eneloop.info/products/chargers/sets-with-mqr06.html
http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/MANUALS/CHARGERS/NC-MQR06W_manual_ENG.pdf


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## stp (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



LEDninja said:


> The Duracell charger can only charge 2 or 4 cells which is a problem for a single cell LD01. Make sure you buy a charger that clearly states it can charge 1, 2, 3, 4 cells.



That's not true, CEF23 has 4 independent channels. 

It also uses 1 led per cell to signal when the charging is done. Red light - charging, green - done. I'm using it as a travel charger (I prefer to use Maha C9000 at home) and as a travel charger it's quite good but could be little smaller. 

Pros: 
12V car input
USB 5V output that can be powered from accumulators.
4 independent channels, 4 independent indicators

Cons:
Could be smaller
Charging could be faster - only 550mA per slot.
Isn't very energy efficient when generating 5v from batteries
only 500mA max. USB output


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## moldyoldy (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



blo9 said:


> Check out the Sanyo NC-MQR06. It has induvidual channels and it is possible to mix sizes at the same time.
> http://www.eneloop.info/products/chargers/sets-with-mqr06.html
> http://www.eneloop.info/fileadmin/EDITORS/ENELOOP/MANUALS/CHARGERS/NC-MQR06W_manual_ENG.pdf



Thanks for the link! For reference, I will not purchase any charger w/o independent cell/channel charging.

However based on this Sanyo charger manual referenced in the link and the Sanyo USB 2-slot charger which I do own, I realized that my practice of looking for obvious individual channel indicators was false. Sanyo seems to be in the process of designing to avoid the cost of a cutout for the slot charge LEDs by simply placing the indicator LED close to the plastic surface - with no slot. The plastic glows in that area. 

FWIW, the Sanyo USB charge LED (blue) is so bright that I had to place some dark tape over that area of the charger to dim the blinking!


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## Schermann (Aug 24, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

INEXPENSIVE for me is a charger that runs without a hitch for several years and batts that do the same...







...need I say more?


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## blo9 (Aug 28, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



moldyoldy said:


> Thanks for the link! For reference, I will not purchase any charger w/o independent cell/channel charging.
> 
> However based on this Sanyo charger manual referenced in the link and the Sanyo USB 2-slot charger which I do own, I realized that my practice of looking for obvious individual channel indicators was false. Sanyo seems to be in the process of designing to avoid the cost of a cutout for the slot charge LEDs by simply placing the indicator LED close to the plastic surface - with no slot. The plastic glows in that area.
> 
> FWIW, the Sanyo USB charge LED (blue) is so bright that I had to place some dark tape over that area of the charger to dim the blinking!



I wouldn't just look at the leds to check if the charger got two or four channels =)
Anyway, as a newbie on this forum I still think that the MQR06 is a very good charger. Fits all my need.

I don't have any issues with the leds since I don't have the charger beside my bed.


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## soloz2 (Aug 28, 2012)

I ordered the small travel Sanyo charger that came with 2 AA eneloops. It seems to work quite well. My plan is to put it in the camera bag for when we travel after I purchase a better charger for home. Right now I'm leaning towards the lacrosse 700 as it is around the same price as the Sanyo can be ordered from amazon and has some extra features. 

I purchased one pack of AAA Duraloops and plan to pick up some more this week. They are on sale for $8 4pk and I have two $1.50 off coupons. I also found a P&G rebate for $5 back on a $25 purchase that should work for Duracell products. I know they won't be the newer eneloops, but the price is right. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


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## apagogeas (Aug 28, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

Just to complete my post above on Tronic 2500mAh, I fully discharged the batteries almost down to 0V, so if they are capable to accept 2500mAh, this would allow it. Charged in Maha, even using their recommended charging regime, and the total charge indicated is 1350-1450mAh, almost exactly what I got by the initial break-in. So these are probably wrongly labeled. Either way, they disqualify for usage in the UV killer due to capacity which is not enough for this task. After 15 cycles I really hoped these to fair better but I see no signs of any capacity improvement. 

Now comes the strange observation. During the initial discharges (also observed at break in) the voltage sag was lower than 1.1V from start to the end. With my own thresholds, these are rubbish. Didn't bothered to check that again in the meantime and after draining them down to 0V, I observe at the same discharge rate a much lower voltage sag around 1.17-1.2V (started at 1.30V), similar to my Energizers which sustain a voltage sag around 1.17-1.2V for the same discharge of 0.5A. I can't judge if this huge improvement of voltage sag is due to cycling or discharging down to 0V but nevertheless, it seems very impressive. What's going on here?? For the history, these cells were made on March 2012 and put into use within August, so they didn't have the time to suffer in storage that much. I'm sure the lower price suggests that they don't leave the factory in top condition (no exercise, it costs money) which is expected to show up during use but this observation suggests that a battery should be only judged after a few cycles and performance out of the box doesn't really say much. This also gave me the idea to test other brands if they benefit somehow from draining them down to 0V once in a while, perhaps helps reactivation of some chemistry that got "lazy" and didn't contribute anymore to the overall voltage or even restore some lost capacity. Still I consider these batteries rubbish simply because they are 1400mAh ones instead of 2500mAh stated on the label which was the main reason I got them, besides the ultra cheap price.
When I have some more info of the 0V experiment I'll post the results if anything useful comes up. Time to test those XX arrived today


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## ChrisGarrett (Aug 28, 2012)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*



soloz2 said:


> I ordered the small travel Sanyo charger that came with 2 AA eneloops. It seems to work quite well. My plan is to put it in the camera bag for when we travel after I purchase a better charger for home. Right now I'm leaning towards the lacrosse 700 as it is around the same price as the Sanyo can be ordered from amazon and has some extra features.
> 
> I purchased one pack of AAA Duraloops and plan to pick up some more this week. They are on sale for $8 4pk and I have two $1.50 off coupons. I also found a P&G rebate for $5 back on a $25 purchase that should work for Duracell products. I know they won't be the newer eneloops, but the price is right.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2



I've got the BC-700 for travelling and it slips into a ziplock baggie and packs away in the suitcase quite unobtrusively, working well enough for my needs.

I used it and my C-9000 this past weekend, doing double duty when getting ready for TS Issac and while the batteries sometimes do get warm, it's not a big issue.

Chris


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## lwien (Aug 28, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



Schermann said:


> Lacrosse Technology BC1000 has a reputation of melting batteries with a plastic fire on occasions. I could not recommend it for the fear of your house burning down in that 1 in a 1000 chance you got the dodgy one that does this! Be safe and go with the MH-C9000 as you have the assurance of many members here that it is the right choice...



Please post up the links to melting batteries and plastic fire in regards to the BC1000. 

As far as I know, there were issues such as these with the old BC-900 and BC9000 along with the early MH9000, but I have not heard of this with the BC1000 and only one or two reports with the BC700.


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## stp (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



apagogeas said:


> I fully discharged the batteries almost down to 0V (...)
> 
> Now comes the strange observation. During the initial discharges (also observed at break in) the voltage sag was lower than 1.1V from start to the end. With my own thresholds, these are rubbish. Didn't bothered to check that again in the meantime and after draining them down to 0V, I observe at the same discharge rate a much lower voltage sag around 1.17-1.2V (started at 1.30V), similar to my Energizers which sustain a voltage sag around 1.17-1.2V for the same discharge of 0.5A. I can't judge if this huge improvement of voltage sag is due to cycling or discharging down to 0V but nevertheless, it seems very impressive. What's going on here??
> When I have some more info of the 0V experiment I'll post the results if anything useful comes up. Time to test those XX arrived today



Hmm I always thought that discharging NiMhs to 0V is very damaging to batteries and it shoudn't be done...?


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## apagogeas (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

I haven't seen ill effects by doing so but I haven't tested that approach extensively either. Reverse charging is basically damaging the cells and possibly if left fully empty for a longer time or doing this every so often. I have read around here mixed opinions on 0V discharge, others say there is no problem, others say it is damaging. So nothing conclusive really yet. If my experiment (when I have the time) reveals any damage or benefit I'll post the results. I have a few cells qualifying for this 0V test and I can sacrifice them to learn something new.


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## 45/70 (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

As I understand it, fully or partially discharging a NiMh cell is analogous to stretching a rubber band repeatedly. The farther you stretch it out each time, the faster it wears out.

In the case of a NiMh cell, this is related to the electrode structure of the cell. The deeper the discharge, the more wear that occurs each cycle. Of course, just as the rubber in rubber bands deteriorates over time, so do the internal components of NiMh cells, regardless of how they are used. You have to weigh all causes of wear to the cell, and make the best compromise.

It may be that LSD cells are different in this regard, but as far as I know, it still applies, to some degree anyway. It is however still a good idea to run all types of NiMh cells down once in a while, typically to 0.90-1.00 Volt under load (~1.20 Volt OC). This helps keep all the chemicals within the cell active, and also helps prevent the so called "memory effect", from which NiMh cells suffer, but to a lesser degree than NiCd. Also, NiCd cells, due to their different makeup, are relatively impervious to "stretching" and can be deeply discharged on a regular basis, fortunately, as this chemistry requires regular discharging.

As far as "deep" discharging NiMh cells below 0.90-1.00 Volt, there was a thread a long time ago in which SilverFox and others determined that discharging NiMh cells to lower than 0.6 Volt (under load, not OC) had no benefit, and likely simply caused more wear to the cell. The consensus as I remember, was that discharging to 0.80-1.00 Volt under load, depending on the load applied, effectively accomplished a "full discharge".

Dave


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## apagogeas (Aug 30, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

Good analogy this one 45/70 I agree that performing regularly a full discharge will stress the cell further and shallow discharges always extend the life of the battery. I try to think a bit out of the box really here. I visualize the battery internally as very small particles in series each one offering its part to the overall current. The ability to deliver current comes from the ability each such particle individually to be able and provide what it is asked for. So, if some particles can get "lazy", they can actually give what we ask from them but very slowly, so all the other particles do the job. It may be due to some micro-scale difference in resistance at the points these lazy particles fall that may render them "lazy". In terms of actual ability to deliver current, indeed 0.9V under load can be considered fully empty for any task. Still some charge remains there and the way I understand it, the "lazy" particles may be still quite charged because of this. So, by draining down to 0V, we just force even these particles to provide what they can at the end, hopefully exercising them a bit. So the next time they may be less lazy, therefore producing a lower voltage sag and maybe some more capacity after all. Of course I can't tell if draining down to 0V can damage the healthier particles in there or do some other sort of damage. I just consider that approach as another method to bring back to life a poor performing battery, not intended to be done in good cells anyway. I'm sure if I let the battery stay fully discharged, some sort of deterioration will occur soon enough, so this is "discharge fully and recharge right away" approach.


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## roadkill1109 (Sep 3, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



Schermann said:


> Lacrosse Technology BC1000 has a reputation of melting batteries with a plastic fire on occasions. I could not recommend it for the fear of your house burning down in that 1 in a 1000 chance you got the dodgy one that does this! Be safe and go with the MH-C9000 as you have the assurance of many members here that it is the right choice...



Oh come on, the only problems with melting batteries is because the batteries were inferior to begin with, plus the owner was too impatient and charged them at the highest possible rate, therefore BOOM! Any fast charger would explode too.

Enough about the bad rep on the lacrosse. It's actually the best and most stable charger out there. Charge it at the lowest current 200mah and you should be fine, even with inferior rechargeables. 

Maha's nice but over-priced and too large to lug around.


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## roadkill1109 (Sep 3, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



apagogeas said:


> Good analogy this one 45/70 I agree that performing regularly a full discharge will stress the cell further and shallow discharges always extend the life of the battery. I try to think a bit out of the box really here. I visualize the battery internally as very small particles in series each one offering its part to the overall current. The ability to deliver current comes from the ability each such particle individually to be able and provide what it is asked for. So, if some particles can get "lazy", they can actually give what we ask from them but very slowly, so all the other particles do the job. It may be due to some micro-scale difference in resistance at the points these lazy particles fall that may render them "lazy". In terms of actual ability to deliver current, indeed 0.9V under load can be considered fully empty for any task. Still some charge remains there and the way I understand it, the "lazy" particles may be still quite charged because of this. So, by draining down to 0V, we just force even these particles to provide what they can at the end, hopefully exercising them a bit. So the next time they may be less lazy, therefore producing a lower voltage sag and maybe some more capacity after all. Of course I can't tell if draining down to 0V can damage the healthier particles in there or do some other sort of damage. I just consider that approach as another method to bring back to life a poor performing battery, not intended to be done in good cells anyway. I'm sure if I let the battery stay fully discharged, some sort of deterioration will occur soon enough, so this is "discharge fully and recharge right away" approach.



you know, the lacrosse charger has a selectable rate of discharge prior to charging. The lower the rate, the longer the discharge but the battery doesnt get taxed. The only reason one should use the discharge/charge method is to restore the ability of the battery to hold a charge longer. I've noticed that non-eneloops when not used after several months easily get discharged, then after using them then charging them two or three time over, the cell starts to retain its capacity longer. Doing the discharge/charge cycle on the charger reduces the need of having to do this on the device you need it to be full power on. when i have old nimh that have been in "cold" storage (meaning kept from use for a VERY long time) i pop them in the charger and use a discharge refresh function which discharges, then charges then discharges then charges again until the battery has come up to its old capacity. You can verify this by checking the capacity indicator once it finishes the cycle. This can be very long when done at the lowest setting (ideal) can take anywhere from two to three days depending on nimh capacity.

as a rule of thumb, you should do a discharge/charge refresh on all your nimh cells every few months to keep them in good shape, even if you're not planning to use them. eneloops even! but eneloops have more tolerance to long periods of un-use. Which is why, when my old nimh stock gets ruined (eventually) it will be sanyo eneloops from that point onwards.


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## apagogeas (Sep 3, 2012)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



roadkill1109 said:


> ...
> as a rule of thumb, you should do a discharge/charge refresh on all your nimh cells every few months to keep them in good shape, even if you're not planning to use them. eneloops even! but eneloops have more tolerance to long periods of un-use. Which is why, when my old nimh stock gets ruined (eventually) it will be sanyo eneloops from that point onwards.



That's what I generally do with all my stored batteries the last 2 years I have maha here and it is indeed a good advice to follow. An unused NiMH will show signs of reduced capacity/higher voltage sag. However, the whole 0V idea started by getting new cells with huge voltage sag, returning 1400mAh capacity instead of close to 2500mAh as stated on the label. The idea was, due to high voltage sag observed, Maha could possibly determine a wrong capacity (at least lower than normally expected) so draining down to 0V would guarantee that the battery is indeed fully empty and not discharged to a predetermined fixed point because of the battery's inability to sustain a pulsed 1A discharge current (my setting was 200mAh discharge but Maha discharges pulsed 1A) which would result in a premature discharge termination and still quite charged. After a few charges/discharges I didn't notice any improvement in voltage sag and capacity. So I decided to do something more "shocking" like draining down to 0V. Not sure how much this helped or if this is the reason of what I observe now but the voltage sag is now to a normal range, similar to other good batteries I have; the capacity however seems very slightly increased so I assume these batteries are wrongly labeled.


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## MatthewSB (Feb 8, 2013)

*AA Rechargeable Batteries and Charger*

I'm looking for a rechargeable system for my AA lights. I'm getting lost between 'trickle', 'smart', and 'fast' charging systems, as well as the makeup of the batteries themselves. What do you guys use? I'd like to use rechargeables in my AA (incandescent) Maglites, a Pelican AA LED light, and a Surefire E2LAA (when I get one someday). What would you recommend?

If I'm understanding what I've read correctly, the voltage difference between RCR123 and regular CR123 batteries means that you can't use the RCR's in some lights - Is the same true with AA rechargeables?


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## VidPro (Feb 8, 2013)

*Re: AA Rechargeable Batteries and Charger*

2 types of 123 rechargables exist that simulate the voltage of a primary CR123, the regulated li-ion (3v) and the li-fe-po. both of those will work in most of the boost lights , without any problems. it is only the higher voltage li-ion (3.6v) that because of its higher charged voltage, it is not advised in many lights.


The AA 1.2V Ni-Mh rechargables have a loaded voltage of ~1.3-1.0v 
This mimics the AA alkaline 1.5V voltage under load very well. 
The alkaline loaded is more like ~1.5-.8v (simply)

There are few situations where a ni-mh AA rechargable will act a different in a light, in a way that it causes a problem, so usually it is not a problem.
Very rarely a light design might depend on alkaline voltage Drooping way down, like some of the 3XAAA or 3XAA direct drive junk, and even they work ok. Very rarely some devices will think that the voltage of the ni-mh is not enough, and show low battery, although there is no reason for it.
Any device that specifically states to only use alkalines would still want to be analyzed as to why they are saying that, before using the rechargables in it.

Is there any reason NOT to use rechargables in the AA ? No, 99.8% of the time it is as good or better, without problems. in the AAA well that is a different bucket of monkeys  The rechargable AAAs are not very tough, and few chargers treat them really well, and like any AAA they dont have much total capacity.

Pelican 4xAA LED piece of cake. 

Mag Incan, there is one thing that will become very important with a incan bulb item. Do not run the light when the light output drops , always recharge before then. 

I will attempt to splain it.
The bulb in an incan is a wire. The "wiring" is such that it connects the top of the battery stack (series) , to the bottom of the battery stack. go it? 

|{=1.3=]{=1.3=]|
|[email protected]_____| <thats a bulb there see 

When one of the batteries in this series stacks is depleted, the other battery is still connected to the stack via the bulb. 
|{=1.2v=]{==0v=]|
|[email protected]______|

The battery that is still going "reverse charges" the depleted battery and can do a lot of damage to it. 
|{=1.2v=]{===]|
|[email protected]______|

So before one cell in a seires stack goes down, you disconnect the wire(bulb) using that switch thing.


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## VidPro (Feb 8, 2013)

*Re: AA Rechargeable Batteries and Charger*

On to the hard part.
"smart" chargers, no such thing, all chargers are dumb electrical and microprocessor controlled inorganic species, they have no soul, no life and very tiny ammounts of brain and memory. And they are often mean silicon species. Whatever charger you get , still will need assistance from something that has a brain.

"smart chargers" are like the mechanism in your toilet. As the water (power) flows in at a specific Rate to fill the container (battery) the Float (termination method) attempts to shut off the flow as the container fills up to the top. 
Thats it, using a few different methods , different rates of flow, and different ways of stopping that flow, and slowly finishing the fill. Different ones can underfill, overfill, fill to fast, or fill to slow. A smart charger is mostly a digital toilet  how well designed it is , is more important than the label.

The smart chargers normal MO is to use a medium-high rate of charge, when the toilet overflows stop, then slowly top off the tank as it settles down.
The method of termination is usually "hard charge" the battery until it "falters" this falter point is seen as a drop in the voltage of the battery.
Because most batteries will falter when they can no longer accept the charge being shoved into them, this method works most of the time.
This method does not work for batteries that have sat around for a long time unused, or really cruddy batteries. This is where the human brain becomes a desirable component to add to the charging procedure.

Howsa Human supposed to know?:
Ahh , i am glad you asked, because I was getting to that.
Recent developments at area 51 have created the smart chargers with viewable data available for the human to SEE what is going on (finally) .
Thanks to an infusion of knowledge from an alien species that is friendly to batteries, models of "smart" chargers now have a display. This display is the base key needed for the human to assess the operations of the smart charger, and determine what is going on. Without it species of chargers did assault & battery and no one knew what was happening or why.

When it comes to recommending a charger, getting one with full data view, vrses a few lame bars, could be crucial to the war on batteries. Seeing the voltage, the power tossed towards the battery, the rates and the total capacity that the battery was capable of storing, is vital. This also comes at a cost , not the money kind, but now you will see things and know things . . . things the evil charger species tries to keep from you.

If you dont want to send your batteries to the front line without knowing their condition, you will aquire at least one of the digital chargers that can display that information, even if you use or acquire other chargers for regular maintance, and ease of use.
Chargers like a Maha , Lacross , Accupower, with the display (other than bars) all ok usable chargers to have, even if they are still of the same species of evil.

A good one to recommend is the Maha C9000, tiny differences made in newer revisions, means it doesnt overflow the toilet as much. But it is not without caveats. It is very pickey about crap batteries, and will not charge them (be that good or bad). It has a very high rate of charge 2A, that is PWM to change the averaged charge rates. It also can require quite a few clicks to make a lot of adjustments. So it wont do anything for a battery that needs a Medic, but it can treat your forces with as much respect as they will get this year. 


Wasa Dumb charger?:
There are many different varieties of dumb chargers, some treat a battery ok, some torture a battery. different ones used different methods. A charger might be more often classed as dumb if it was more analog, instead of more digital.

One method is a set voltage, as the battery voltage goes up, they slow down because the voltage isnt too different.
They often have a timer (time-out), under the assumption that the battery was fully discharged, they can toss in so much power for so much time.
They might charge in series, instead of singularly treating the battery.
They might observe the voltage and stop when it hits a peak voltage
and they might observe the voltage and determine that the voltage is no longer changing much (becomming smart).
Or they can be very very slow, so slow that it is within the specs of the battery to overcharge at that rate.
More than one method may be applied in a dumb charger, like it might have a lower voltage, and a timer, or other possible combinations.

The worst dumb charger is the one with the higher rates of charge. something that the "smart" chargers prefer for thier termination methods. Exists today are dumb chargers with med-high rates of charge and no stopping other than timers, they are the worst of the silicon species, known to attack batteries with unstopping heated vengeance , and even popping thier corks at times.


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## MatthewSB (Feb 8, 2013)

*Re: AA Rechargeable Batteries and Charger*



> Recent developments at area 51



Awesome posts, thank you so much for explaining all of that.


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## mcnair55 (Feb 8, 2013)

*Re: AA Rechargeable Batteries and Charger*

I sometimes get the feeling that perhaps we go over board on this hobby and become to much of anorak wearers instead of enjoying our lights.About 5 or 6 years ago i bought an LCD charger and some Eneloop type batteries in AA and AAA.I have Eneloop-Duraloop-Evolta and another 2 or 3 makes knocking about.I never had issues and i enjoy my lights without the worry of charging dilemmas.


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## mccririck (Feb 8, 2013)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



apagogeas said:


> Just to complete my post above on Tronic 2500mAh, I fully discharged the batteries almost down to 0V, so if they are capable to accept 2500mAh, this would allow it. Charged in Maha, even using their recommended charging regime, and the total charge indicated is 1350-1450mAh, almost exactly what I got by the initial break-in. So these are probably wrongly labeled. Either way, they disqualify for usage in the UV killer due to capacity which is not enough for this task. After 15 cycles I really hoped these to fair better but I see no signs of any capacity improvement.


 I got some 2500mAh Tronic AA cells recently. I found when I tested the four of them that one was just over 1500mAh, one was about 1700mAh, one was 1850mAh and one was 2080mAh! I also got some Tronic LSD 2100mAh AA cells and they all tested very close to stated capacity.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 13, 2013)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

Anybody tried the new GP AA 2700MAH PRO, it says it stays charged longer, i wonder how the are compared to Eneloop XXX

http://www.gpbatteries.com/INT/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&layout=item&id=122&Itemid=499

John.


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## mccririck (Feb 13, 2013)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Anybody tried the new GP AA 2700MAH PRO, it says it stays charged longer, i wonder how the are compared to Eneloop XXX
> 
> http://www.gpbatteries.com/INT/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&layout=item&id=122&Itemid=499
> 
> John.



Those look good.


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## TinderBox (UK) (Feb 13, 2013)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

The website below says they have an minimum capacity of 2550mah , still no mention of how much capacity is left after 12/24 months.

http://www.7dayshop.com/gp-professi...oYXJnZXJzLXBvd2VyLWJhdHRlcmllcz9icmFuZD0zNzc= 

John.


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## mccririck (Feb 13, 2013)

*Re: Best AA/AAA battery Charger? Maha, Lacrosse, etc... As of August 2012*

Bit expensive, I'd go for Vapex 2300mAh LSD instead tbh.


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## heckeng (Feb 21, 2013)

*Any AA/AAA chargers to stay away from or to look for for good performance?*

Hey all, I am looking for a good battery charger and have been reading a lot from the forum and amazon reviews etc. and it looks like many will overcharge NiMh batteries or not charge them all the same if charging batteries of different rates of depletion. I have recently bought some Eneloop XX AA and AAA batteries for lights and other things that I don't want alkalines to ruin. I have the factory Eneloop charger which frankly I don't trust after reading all of the issues chargers have and would appreciate any help you might be able to offer.

Thanks in advance,
Scott


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## EscapeVelocity (Feb 22, 2013)

*Re: Any AA/AAA chargers to stay away from or to look for for good performance?*

If you are just looking for a AA/AAA NiMH charger then I suggest

Duracell Mobile Charger CEF23DX4N

Sony BCG34HRE4KN

If you want something a little fancier then the Lacrosse BC-700/900/1000 or the Maha WizardOne C9000....though less techy friends and family love the simplicy (yet smart) Sony and Duracell chargers that I give them.


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## JerryM (Feb 22, 2013)

*Re: Any AA/AAA chargers to stay away from or to look for for good performance?*

I have been pleased with eneloop batteries and a SANYO NC-MQR06 AAA AA Battery Quick Charger.
It has two quick charge slots if you do not need more than two at a time, or it has 4 slots if you need to charge that many at once.
Jerry


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## EscapeVelocity (Feb 22, 2013)

*Re: Any AA/AAA chargers to stay away from or to look for for good performance?*

Just wanted to say that I have been thrilled with the Duracell CEF23*. The Sony I listed is great too, but I slightly prefer to use the Duracell. I have an older Sony BCG34 too, the one with the corded plug and the orange LCD screen and it is much more cumbersome, though it works well.


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## MinorThreat (Feb 22, 2013)

*Re: Any AA/AAA chargers to stay away from or to look for for good performance?*



heckeng said:


> Hey all, I am looking for a good battery charger (snip)



Seems there are plenty of "good" chargers around but according to the general consensus on this site, the La Crosse BC1000 and Maha Powerex MH-C9000 are top dogs. I just received a BC1000 and some XXX Enloops but haven't started tinkering yet.


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## 1mT (Mar 18, 2013)

*Re: Looking for an inexpensive AA/AAA NA-MH batteries & charger*

delete


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