# Shouldn't Lumens Factory Have a Turbo Head?



## Deputy T.

After getting a great deal on a Surefire KT-2 in the market place, the thought occurred to me: If the can make a M-series compatible P7 Seraph head for under a hundred dollars, imagine what a great deal could be had for a possible incan turbo head. It would probably best be done in M-series threading vs C-series since there's already and C to M adapter. 

I've been eyeballing out the Seraph series for a long time now, and when I order the IMR-M3T for my KT-2/FM 2x18650/Z41 setup, I'll probably throw a SP-9 Xenon kit into my cart. I'm a huge LF fan. Once I get this last lego build complete, I'll have all five sizes of the Fivemega C-head/C-tail bodies; four of them with LF lamp assemblies (the 1x18650 currently has a p60l in it).

I just thought I'd open this thread to see if others would feel the same as I do, and maybe Mark might chime in to give a few comments.


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## Inliner

I'd love to have a LF turbo head if it was around the 2" size. The KT series is too big for me.


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## Dioni

It would be great!!!

"calling Mark to this thread... calling Mark to this thread"


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## Fusion_m8

if they make a SF compatible turbo head with a choice of SMO or LOP reflector to maximise throw of their SF compatible bulbs!!!

I've already got the SERAPH P7 head and its AWESOME on a L6 body. The output of the Seraph P7 makes the standard KL6 look like a candle...:candle:


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## Outdoors Fanatic

I've said that many times here! A KT2 or KT4 alternative would be a HUGE seller!! (Or something even bigger and better: a 3 plus inches Turbohead with smooth reflector).


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## Dioni

Waiting for a good news from "Seraph Turbo Head"


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## ampdude

Deputy T. said:


> After getting a great deal on a Surefire KT-2 in the market place, the thought occurred to me: If the can make a M-series compatible P7 Seraph head for under a hundred dollars, imagine what a great deal could be had for a possible incan turbo head. It would probably best be done in M-series threading vs C-series since there's already and C to M adapter.
> 
> I've been eyeballing out the Seraph series for a long time now, and when I order the IMR-M3T for my KT-2/FM 2x18650/Z41 setup, I'll probably throw a SP-9 Xenon kit into my cart. I'm a huge LF fan. Once I get this last lego build complete, I'll have all five sizes of the Fivemega C-head/C-tail bodies; four of them with LF lamp assemblies (the 1x18650 currently has a p60l in it).
> 
> I just thought I'd open this thread to see if others would feel the same as I do, and maybe Mark might chime in to give a few comments.



Considering the KT turboheads are C/P/Z/N/D series compatible already, I don't see why they would want to make one with M3-threads. Most of us don't own M3's, but most of us do own some type of C/P/Z/N/D series Surefire light. I really like turboheads, but I rarely use them because they lack the compactness of the other lights I own.


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## mdocod

There are a few gaps. I agree with others that a 2" size class and a 3-4" super-turbo size class could be pretty good sellers.

In my experience though, D36 mini-turbo (~1.5") lamps with their lighter textured reflectors actually throw as well as many bulbs loaded in full size SF turbo heads (2.5"). Larger reflector sizes can certainly deliver more throw, however, it's important to remember than by sacrificing some beam quality, we can get good throw from small reflectors... I am hard pressed to want a gigantic head on a light (bulk tradeoff) when the same effective range can be had on a more compact head with a few minor beam defects.

That said, if you combine some beam quality tradeoff with some size tradeoff and have a 4" reflector with very light or no texturing, throw would go to a whole new level that no small platform could compete with. 

I want one!

-Eric


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## Deputy T.

ampdude said:


> Considering the KT turboheads are C/P/Z/N/D series compatible already, I don't see why they would want to make one with M3-threads. Most of us don't own M3's, but most of us do own some type of C/P/Z/N/D series Surefire light. I really like turboheads, but I rarely use them because they lack the compactness of the other lights I own.



I only said M-series thread because that combined with the C to M adapter that Lumens Factory already offers would cover a larger number of light body's. In my mind I was thinking that is what they were going for with the P7 head. However considering that the the only C-bodies the head is compatible with is their own, I now think the only reason the it' M-series compatible is because of the size of the tower.


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## Fusion_m8

LF already has the blueprints for a incand turbo head with their Seraph P7 module. All they probably have to do is modify or redesign the reflector to accept incand M series lamp assemblies.


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## ampdude

I think a D36 sized head with very light orange peel would fulfill most people's throw needs.


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## Dioni

mdocod said:


> There are a few gaps. I agree with others that a 2" size class and a 3-4" super-turbo size class could be pretty good sellers.
> 
> In my experience though, D36 mini-turbo (~1.5") lamps with their lighter textured reflectors actually throw as well as many bulbs loaded in full size SF turbo heads (2.5"). Larger reflector sizes can certainly deliver more throw, however, it's important to remember than by sacrificing some beam quality, we can get good throw from small reflectors... I am hard pressed to want a gigantic head on a light (bulk tradeoff) when the same effective range can be had on a more compact head with a few minor beam defects.
> 
> That said, if you combine some beam quality tradeoff with some size tradeoff and have a 4" reflector with very light or no texturing, throw would go to a whole new level that no small platform could compete with.
> 
> I want one!
> 
> -Eric


 
I agree with everything you said, however, in fact, we feel the need for a optional turbo head to use the great Surefire MN-series bulbs, or even the LF M bulbs made by lumensfactory themself

IMHO it would be a help for us both who need and want to use that bulbs. Still, i think it would also complete the "almost"  complete Seraph setup. 

Perhaps, there may be some problem with patent rights...

Cheers,
Dioni


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## Sgt. LED

A LF head with M series threads holding a 3-4" VLOP reflector that's HA Nat?

 Would love to try it out!


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## Outdoors Fanatic

Sgt. LED said:


> A LF head with M series threads holding a 3-4" VLOP reflector that's HA Nat?
> 
> Would love to try it out!


*+1*

Hell yes!!! (PayPal locked and loaded)

Mark, are you listening??


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## Outdoors Fanatic

ampdude said:


> I think a D36 sized head with very light orange peel would fulfill most people's throw needs.


They already got a D36 reflector... We need something bigger! We are CPFers, worse yet, we're SureFire fanatics... we need more cowbell... Always!


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## Outdoors Fanatic

Fusion_m8 said:


> LF already has the blueprints for a incand turbo head with their Seraph P7 module. All they probably have to do is modify or redesign the reflector to accept incand M series lamp assemblies.


Yep! The Seraph P7 Turbohead is smaller than SureFire Turboheads, though. For greater throw improvement over the standard KT1/KT2/KT4, we'd need something at least 3 inches in diameter, deeper than the KTs and with very light orange peel or even mirror finish.

Cheers.


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## Juggernaut

I’d buy a SF if I could get a 3-4 inch turbo head!


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## Sgt. LED

Time to start a poll?  Maybe even a 5 inch.


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## Juggernaut

Sgt. LED said:


> Maybe even a 5 inch.


 
:devil:, Then what would Maglites be useful for....?:laughing:


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## Sgt. LED

Fill em' with sand and use them as an anchor?
:thumbsup: You have convinced me, we need a LF 6 inch head.


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## Juggernaut

6 a incher! HA Ha, that would be so funny, it would look so silly on a CR123 body, but………..I bet it would look sick on a M6:twothumbs! I’d definitely go for at least a 3 - 5 inch head, as long as it was done sort of like the huge heads on the Wolf eyes lights with the flat angled sides. For some reason it makes the large head look more reasonable:shrug:. 



 
Could you imagine a 1111 bulb in a 5 inch turbo head attached to a 2x 16340 IMR cell 6P body:laughing:! You’d have this stubby little thing, with laser like throw! Also the larger head sizes would look great with Fivemega C-cell bodies:thumbsup:.


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## Illum

+1 on a 2"
2.5" on the KTs is proving difficult to EDC. Its EDC-able, but makes you reconsider when its EDC'd for a light jog



Fusion_m8 said:


> I've already got the SERAPH P7 head and its AWESOME on a L6 body. The output of the Seraph P7 makes the standard KL6 look like a candle...:candle:



KL6_ is_ a candle...still is, forever will



Juggernaut said:


> :devil:, Then what would Maglites be useful for....?:laughing:



heres an illustration of a typical application


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## Juggernaut

Illum said:


> heres an illustration of a typical application


 
How silly of me to forget.


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## Outdoors Fanatic

Illum said:


> +1 on a 2"
> 2.5" on the KTs is proving difficult to EDC. Its EDC-able, but makes you reconsider when its EDC'd for a light jog


 
Please, enough with the small "toyish" turboheads! :nana:

We need something larger than 2.5", preferably 3" or 3.5". LF already offers a great turbohead for EDC duty: the Seraph D36 Mini-Turbohead. You should check it out.

Cheers.


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## Sgt. LED

OK now I want an 8 inch turbo head for my M4 tube.............................


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## Juggernaut

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Please, enough with the small "toyish" turboheads! :nana:
> 
> We need something larger than 2.5", preferably 3" or 3.5". LF already offers a great turbohead for EDC duty: the Seraph D36 Mini-Turbohead. You should check it out.
> 
> Cheers.


 
+1
 
Sgt. LED’s new light…………….




I want one:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs!


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## Dioni

Juggernaut said:


> Sgt. LED’s new light…………….
> 
> 
> I want one:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs!


 
:green: :green: :laughing:


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## Sgt. LED

But I would like the next one to be a lot deeper!


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## KeyGrip

This is a good idea. If LF can already crank out the relatively complex LED turbohead, then they should really look into making plain turboheads. They already have the information from when they tested their turbo lamps, how difficult could it be? Would Surefire have some patent on the exact dimensions of their reflectors?


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## Sgt. LED

If they do then LF should just go bigger! lovecpf

Come on Mark..................


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## Juggernaut

Sgt. LED said:


> But I would like the next one to be a lot deeper!


 
Ok, Sgt. LED you can’t possibly want a larger turbo head then this, in fact this isn’t even a turbo head, more of a hyper rocket head! I’ll tell you this, the light’s tail standing ability will be drastically less stable, but then again something tells me there will be even more “practical” problems for this light……….
 


 
Not as professional looking, spent to much time on the first one in paint shop.


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## Sgt. LED

:twothumbs

Finally some real distance.


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## Dioni

Juggernaut said:


>


 


It would be a turbo "nitro" head! :laughing:


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## [email protected]

Hi guys,

What is this? I haven't been on CPF for a little while and now there is this talk about 10 inch turboheads, haha. :laughing:

Yes, we have been talking of making an Incan turbohead for sometime now, actually it was supposed to be a part of the Seraph accessories on the inital release. But then the P7 head project came along and it was delayed.

I will look into making this happen, it will probably be something practical like the old SRTH or something around 3 inch. So no 10 inch turbohead, guys. I don't want users holding the torch to all look like plumbers or something.


Cheers,

Mark


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## Outdoors Fanatic

[email protected] said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> What is this? I haven't been on CPF for a little while and now there is this talk about 10 inch turboheads, haha. :laughing:
> 
> Yes, we have been talking of making an Incan turbohead for sometime now, actually it was supposed to be a part of the Seraph accessories on the inital release. But then the P7 head project came along and it was delayed.
> 
> I will look into making this happen, it will probably be something practical like the old SRTH or something around 3 inch. So no 10 inch turbohead, guys. I don't want users holding the torch to all look like plumbers or something.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark


Mark, thank you! That sounds awesome, the SRTH was a superb thrower. Make sure it has very light orange peel (don't butcher it with heavy textures, let the thrower throw! LOL). Also, if possible, it would be great if there were two versions: 'C' and 'M' compatible without the need of an adapter. Oh yes, HA-III natural is a must. (make one in Black-HA too.. hahaha).

Cheers!


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## Sgt. LED

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Make sure it has very light orange peel (don't butcher it with heavy textures, let the thrower throw! LOL).


 
*+1!*

A VERY light OP HA Nat head for M threads to go on my SF M4 tube!
3 inch is OK but the bigger the better, to a point anyway. 
No reason to half-a** it and use a small or shallow reflector. If you're making a turbo head for throw purposes then let it BE big so it will be able to do the job. Why buy a turbo head unless the throw is worth the trade off for the larger size. Like the D36 for example, it's bigger but the throw increase is not proportional to the size increase of the head in my meager (in worth) opinion. 
:shrug: Yeah 10 inch heads would be a bit goofy it's true! But hey think of the crazy throw LOL!


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## Dioni

Wow.. this is a great post!


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## sween1911

[email protected] said:


> ...something practical like the old SRTH...



The stuff of legends there! I'll be keeping my eye on this thread!


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## Snow

[email protected] said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> What is this? I haven't been on CPF for a little while and now there is this talk about 10 inch turboheads, haha. :laughing:
> 
> Yes, we have been talking of making an Incan turbohead for sometime now, actually it was supposed to be a part of the Seraph accessories on the inital release. But then the P7 head project came along and it was delayed.
> 
> I will look into making this happen, it will probably be something practical like the old SRTH or something around 3 inch. So no 10 inch turbohead, guys. I don't want users holding the torch to all look like plumbers or something.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark


 
That's exactly what I wanted. I already have a KT4 so I need something with even more reach.


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## Illum

[email protected] said:


> I don't want users holding the torch to all look like plumbers or something.



well, the last thing we want is to reinvent the Magplunger74 right?:nana:


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## Fusion_m8

Illum said:


> well, the last thing we want is to reinvent the Magplunger74 right?:nana:



That Magplunger74 explains the "strange light" in the sky over Norway....


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## Dioni

Fusion_m8 said:


> That Magplunger74 explains the "strange light" in the sky over Norway....


 
 :thinking: 

It seems a wide focus of the maglite...


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## KeyGrip

Great news, Mark. I'll be keeping my eyes open.


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## ampdude

SRTH would be AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I echo the sentiment for a light orange peel style reflector.


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## Outdoors Fanatic

:buddies:


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## [email protected]

No problem, guys. I hear ya.
But you guys might have to wait until probably March or April of 2010 to see anything, we have got tons of stuff on hand right now. 
Rest assured that it will be made though.

Cheers,

Mark


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## Sgt. LED

I'll wait, but don't make it small!


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## Fusion_m8

:twothumbs:thumbsup:lovecpf




[email protected] said:


> No problem, guys. I hear ya.
> But you guys might have to wait until probably March or April of 2010 to see anything, we have got tons of stuff on hand right now.
> Rest assured that it will be made though.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark


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## Deputy T.

Glad to hear it Mark. I along with everyone else will be waiting patiently...well maybe patiently is the incorrect word.

Thanks to you, and thanks to all of the manufacturers that listen the the cries of CPF!!!


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## Dioni

[email protected] said:


> No problem, guys. I hear ya.
> But you guys might have to wait until probably March or April of 2010 to see anything, we have got tons of stuff on hand right now.
> Rest assured that it will be made though.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark


 


Definitely, I have save money. :twothumbs


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## alantch

I'm in for 1 or 2 if it's larger than the KT4 for superior throw.


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## ampdude

[email protected] said:


> No problem, guys. I hear ya.
> But you guys might have to wait until probably March or April of 2010 to see anything, we have got tons of stuff on hand right now.
> Rest assured that it will be made though.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark


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## Sgt. LED

I'd like to own that head!


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## Fusion_m8

The LF Turbo Head will sell like hot pies in winter if the reflector design can better concentrate the beam pattern to out-throw the KT4... I reckon LF would have problems keeping up with demand then!


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## ampdude

Fusion_m8 said:


> The LF Turbo Head will sell like hot pies in winter if the reflector design can better concentrate the beam pattern to out-throw the KT4... I reckon LF would have problems keeping up with demand then!



Not to mention it would sell more turbohead lamps.


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## Sgt. LED

NO DOUBT!!!!!

I would just HAVE to order a few bulbs to go along with it. :twothumbs


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## Outdoors Fanatic

Sgt. LED said:


> NO DOUBT!!!!!
> 
> I would just HAVE to order a few bulbs to go along with it. :twothumbs


+1!

Now Lumens Factory should come out with 5+ Amp lamp assemblies... There is no fun in having a big turbohead and IMR cells to run only these sub 3A lamps...


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## Fusion_m8

... I cannot stop drooling...


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## Juggernaut

I could see LF coming up with some sort of highly condensed filament bulb for this light to give extreme throw, I don’t mean output, but a really small surface area bulb lined up just right instead of the hit and miss results with other lamp assembles, yah Lumens Factory, you guys are awesome:twothumbs!


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## Sgt. LED

Oh just a hopeful bump.


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## Deputy T.

Awww man, Sarge...you got my hopes up. I saw this thread back to the top and I thought you were bringing new news. Oh well, back to the thumb twiddling...


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## 1wrx7

How about something in the 3.5" range:devil: Kinda makes the millenium turbohead look like a pocketlight:nana:


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## Fusion_m8

What in the world is that?!


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## [email protected]

I second that, what is that?
Is that some kind of custom made large head?


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## 1wrx7

It was the start of a prototype head. It was designed to alow a rediculous amount of different LED/reflector combinations. Think 3X38mm + 3X18mm or 7X27mm reflectors. Unfortunately the CNC dept. at my work got laid off because of cutbacks. Once I learn how to use my new lathe I might try to finish the project myself, but it's on the backburner for now

I love the LF bulbs in my SF lights, and I bet you would sell a ton of turboheads if you made them Mark:thumbsup: With all the talk of large heads I had to share the pic.


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## Fusion_m8

It must weigh more than 10lbs if its machined out of a block stainless steel....


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## Illum

1wrx7 said:


>



I take it the M6 is finally going to be as long as the M4?


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## 1wrx7

Fusion_m8 said:


> It must weigh more than 10lbs if its machined out of a block stainless steel....


 

No S.S. here... only aluminum:sweat:I just need to turn a bezel ring, contact point and a heatsink.... and find someone who can custom cut some glass for me:green: 

I post one more pic for another perspective. The Millenium head is 2.5", this one is 3.5".... seems a lot bigger doesn't it. If anyone ever makes a 5"-6" head I would love to see that

Note the LF HOM4 bulb in the M4


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## Fusion_m8

Could someone please enlighten me as to what SRTH stnads for? *S*urefire *R*..... *T*urbo *H*ead?


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## 1wrx7

IIRC.... smooth reflector turbo head... I could be wrong though.


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## Fusion_m8

The SRTH has a Light OP Reflector right?


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## alantch

Fusion_m8 said:


> Could someone please enlighten me as to what SRTH stnads for? *S*urefire *R*..... *T*urbo *H*ead?


I think it stood for Short Rimmed Turbo Head. Could be wrong though.


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## [email protected]

Thanks for the support guys.
I will look into the possiblity of making a mirror finish reflector to maximize throw, but not sure of the results yet.
If it doesn't work out then it will probably have to go light OP again.
I am thinking of something practical like a 2.5 or 3 inch head, nothing too big.

Anyways, I will have to spent some time on this when we get back from the holidays on the 4th.

Happy New Year, everybody.


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## Sgt. LED

:twothumbs Wonderful!


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## ampdude

Excellent Mark, I hope it is very similar to the old Surefire SRTH. And in HA finish. That's what I think most of us are looking for.

A lot of us want a turbohead, but without the bulk of the KT heads or shock absorbing material like the M3T/M4.

I think most would probably prefer the very light OP to a complete mirror reflector, but I'm sure there are some who would like both. I guess it would be cool to have the mirror reflector and LOP as options.


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## Justin Case

The old SRTH IMO is lighter and sleeker that the current gen KT1/KT2 and KT4 TurboHeads, and the SRTH is a better thrower. On the other hand, the extra mass of the KT1/2/4 might help with heat sinking. I should test an SRTH vs KT1 and KT4.

Edit: SRTH heat sinking performance is essentially the same as that for a KT1 TH, at least when using an assembled AW/Arcmania LED tower kit with a Seoul P4/SOB1000.

FiveMega 1x26500 host and KT1 (top), SF 6P (bottom)





FiveMega 1x26500 host and SRTH


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## Fusion_m8

Wolf-Eyes M100X TH, Surefire KT4, LumensFactory Seraph P7


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## Sgt. LED

Nice
The Wolf-Eyes is just about big enough but it isn't too deep. 
Have to fix that.


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## ugrey

Bump for SF SRTH copy from Lumens Factory. I would love one at 2.5 inches, not 3 inches. Keep bulk and weight to a minimum, unlike the SF KL Turbo Heads.


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## Fusion_m8

Perhaps you could offer interchangeable LOP and SMO reflectors for buyers to purchase to suit their needs.




[email protected] said:


> Thanks for the support guys.
> I will look into the possiblity of making a mirror finish reflector to maximize throw, but not sure of the results yet.
> If it doesn't work out then it will probably have to go light OP again.


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## alantch

I take it this head is M series compatible only?


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## Outdoors Fanatic

Which head exactly? There isn't one yet...


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## slappomatt

I would love to see an aftermarket SF turbo head. I hope it doesn't turn out to be M only though. a C based turbo head in the 2.5" range would be killer and allow ALOT of lego-ing


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## Fusion_m8

Well, it looks like LF may have to make 2 types, one for M and one for C, both with LOP and SMO reflector options. LF will corner the market!:thumbsup:



slappomatt said:


> I would love to see an aftermarket SF turbo head. I hope it doesn't turn out to be M only though. a C based turbo head in the 2.5" range would be killer and allow ALOT of lego-ing


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## ampdude

alantch said:


> I take it this head is M series compatible only?



M is the Millenium weaponlight series which includes a lot of different light kits for various firearms, and they already have shock absorbing turboheads. The M3, M6 and M4 are hand held, but they are also considered weaponlights because of the shock absorbtion and mounting accessories available. I doubt there will be an M version of the SRTH unless Mark feels there is a market for it. I'm assuming the new SRTH will be C/Z/P/G/D compatible, not M (other than M2 of course).


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## Dioni

[email protected] said:


> Thanks for the support guys.
> I will look into the possiblity of making a mirror finish reflector to maximize throw, but not sure of the results yet.
> If it doesn't work out then it will probably have to go light OP again.
> I am thinking of something practical like a 2.5 or 3 inch head, nothing too big.
> 
> Anyways, I will have to spent some time on this when we get back from the holidays on the 4th.
> 
> Happy New Year, everybody.


 
:twothumbs i also prefer a not big TH. Some like a 2.5 inch head!


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## Roger Sully

alantch said:


> I take it this head is M series compatible only?


 
Lumens Factory has a a C - M adapter that makes the P7 head compatible with C and P series.


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## [email protected]

Yes, that's why I was actually thinking of making it in the M platform so it could be used on a C with the adaptor for more flexibility.

Ps. YES, this is definately a scheme to sell more adaptors. 

Plans might change though, who knows.


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## Outdoors Fanatic

[email protected] said:


> Yes, that's why I was actually thinking of making it in the M platform so it could be used on a C with the adaptor for more flexibility.
> 
> Ps. YES, this is definately a scheme to sell more adaptors.
> 
> Plans might change though, who knows.


I was hoping for two different versions ('C' and 'M') precisely to avoid adapters... LOL! I think they ruin looks and add unnecessary resistance. (And I've just bought a new 'C' head 'C' tail Leef 2x18650 damnit! LOL)

Now, if you could come up with flawless Milspec HA finished adapters, then most of us would be happy to use the darn thing.


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## ampdude

Oh......... I really don't want to have to use a C to M adapter. Aside from adding resistance, wouldn't that also make the light longer than necessary. Which is precisely what we are trying to get away from.. added bulk and all.


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## brunt_sp

Inliner said:


> I'd love to have a LF turbo head if it was around the 2" size. The KT series is too big for me.


I agree. Personally I would like a 2" head being half way between a Z46 (M3) and KT2, available in both M and C versions and also grey and black. Nevertheless, an interesting thread.


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## Outdoors Fanatic

brunt_sp said:


> I agree. Personally I would like a 2" head being half way between a Z46 (M3) and KT2, available in both M and C versions and also grey and black. Nevertheless, an interesting thread.


What's the purpose of that? You wouldn't be gaining much more throw over the Z46 and you'd be adding extra weight and bulk to your setup. I see no advantages... A 3" Turbohead is the sweet spot.


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## Deputy T.

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I was hoping for two different versions ('C' and 'M') precisely to avoid adapters... LOL! I think they ruin looks and add unnecessary resistance.



Does an adapter really add resistance? I thought that it only provided the right sized threads and only contacted the outside of the of the light body. The spring of the positive should contact directly to the positive terminal of the battery, and the spring of the negative should still fit inside the neck of the body contacting directly on the same point on the inner rim that it always does. I think that only body extentions cause more resistance. Can some one using the P7 head w/adapter or otherwise using the adapter with any other M series bezel confirm this?


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## [email protected]

Coming to think of it, you guys do have a good point here.
I mean for marketing sake, making it in a C thread is better because they are harder to find nowadays and even if they are still being made, not many places stock them.
If someone wants a Turbohead in M thread then they could get it from SF or swap the head from a M Series. The reflector will not be SRTH, but non-flashaholics can't really tell the difference if all they want is a bigger head.

Point taken, here goes my scheme of selling more adaptors, haha.
Well, there is still the P7 head to do that I guess. :laughing:


----------



## c0t0d0s0

[email protected] said:


> Coming to think of it, you guys do have a good point here.
> I mean for marketing sake, making it in a C thread is better because they are harder to find nowadays and even if they are still being made, not many places stock them.
> If someone wants a Turbohead in M thread then they could get it from SF or swap the head from a M Series. The reflector will not be SRTH, but non-flashaholics can't really tell the difference if all they want is a bigger head.
> 
> Point taken, here goes my scheme of selling more adaptors, haha.
> Well, there is still the P7 head to do that I guess. :laughing:



I disagree. A C-thread turbohead cannot be used on M-compatble bodies - not only Surefire, but also Leef, Fivemega, etc. An M-thread turbohead can be used on both C and M bodies, with an inexpensive adapter that you already make. By releasing it in C-thread only, you will lose half of the market right there.

The Surefire turbohead for M-series is too bulky (due to shock isolation) and too expensive for some people. Their non-shock isolated TH (KT1, KT2) is C-series only, and is still pretty bulky (more metal than actually needed, also it does make it look cool). Therefore, I see your niche as an M-compatible non-shock isolated, light turbohead with an optional M to C adapter. Oh, and make it in both natural and black type-III HA please. One more thing: if you make the reflector integral with the body, it will help with heat dissipation from LED tower modules that overheat quickly in KT4 turboheads (BTW, where's your own LED tower module?). 

BTW: the M-series adapter does not add any resistance whatsoever because it's not a part of electrical path.


----------



## Justin Case

What precludes someone (LF) from designing an M neck to C TH adapter?


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic

c0t0d0s0 said:


> *I disagree. A C-thread turbohead cannot be used on M-compatble bodies - not only Surefire, but also Leef, Fivemega, etc. An M-thread turbohead can be used on both C and M bodies, with an inexpensive adapter that you already make. By releasing it in C-thread only, you will lose half of the market right there.*
> 
> The Surefire turbohead for M-series is too bulky (due to shock isolation) and too expensive for some people. Their non-shock isolated TH (KT1, KT2) is C-series only, and is still pretty bulky (more metal than actually needed, also it does make it look cool). Therefore, I see your niche as an M-compatible non-shock isolated, light turbohead with an optional M to C adapter. Oh, and make it in both natural and black type-III HA please. One more thing: if you make the reflector integral with the body, it will help with heat dissipation from LED tower modules that overheat quickly in KT4 turboheads (BTW, where's your own LED tower module?).
> 
> BTW: the M-series adapter does not add any resistance whatsoever because it's not a part of electrical path.



I disagree! Most aftermarket body tubes for SureFire are made for 'C' heads and it is an indisputable fact that the SureFire C Series are by large and far the most popular SureFire lights in history. Think about how many 6P, 9P, 6PD, C2, C3, Z2, Z3 etc were already sold compared to the much more niche-oriented--and way more expensive, Millennium Combat Series. And also, don't forget that the only two Millennium flashlights which come without a Turbohead are the M2 (technically a 'C' despite its name) and the M3. While not a single stock SureFire C comes with a Turbohead. So that's ONE light versus countless 'C' lights without Turboheads. With that said, which series would have a bigger market for a Turbohead? :nana:


----------



## c0t0d0s0

Maybe so. Personally, I have in my posession 2 headless M-hosts at this point, a Leef 2x18500 and a Fivemega Megalennium, so my perception of the market might be biased.

Anyway, what does a LF C-series TH have to offer over a KT1/KT2?


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic

c0t0d0s0 said:


> Maybe so. Personally, I have in my posession 2 headless M-hosts at this point, a Leef 2x18500 and a Fivemega Megalennium, so my perception of the market might be biased.
> 
> Anyway, what does a LF C-series TH have to offer over a KT1/KT2?


They have a lot to offer:

- Very light orange peel reflectors or possibly mirror-finished, with a larger surface (at least ''3 against ''2.5, according to LF) delivering much better throw. Perhaps, a better thermal path for LED towers and a less bulkier lighter design. And of course, a way more attractive price point compared to SF Turbohead Kits.

With that said, I'm not against having an "M' only Turbohead, perhaps with a differentiated design from the "C" Turbohead. It would be very wise for LF to offer BOTH versions.

Cheers.


----------



## ampdude

Obviously the C version would outsell a M version at least 5 to 1, if not more. Hell you'll have people with 6P's, C3's, Leef/FM bodies, and everything else buying them.

I'm not against having two versions either, but I think it would be crazy to make it only in M. Who are gonna buy the M's... the few people who have M3's and M4/M6's? I guess it might fit the old discontinued L6 model as well, I think the L7 had 8AX Commander compatible threads though.


----------



## Dioni

I agree with Mark. IMO the most market will be C head threads.

it includes me


----------



## Justin Case

Regardless of 2.5" vs 3" diameter, if the new TH can't outperform an SRTH or a KT1, then the larger diam, lower price, sleeker looks, etc are all moot. IMO, at a minimum, the new TH has to have better throw and at least equal heat sinking capability (for use with LED turbo towers). Superior heat sinking such that one can use things like MC-E towers running at full power would be a huge plus. A somewhat smaller overall beam size, which would then concentrate some lumens that could go into the spill so that you can have both a brighter hot spot and spill vs current SF THs, might also be useful. Current SF THs produce a huge overall beam size, which is perhaps overkill. Nice, but overkill.


----------



## Fusion_m8

Any updates??


----------



## Dioni

Fusion_m8 said:


> Any updates??


 Yeah... we want updates!


----------



## Fusion_m8

Think its still Chinese New Year Holidays in Hong Kong. May have to wait until next week at least.


----------



## alantch




----------



## ampdude




----------



## Brigadier

I would also like to see a 2.5"-3" TH finished to match the SP-9. My D36/HO-9L combo is wonderful. I can imagine what a real TH could be capable of.


----------



## Deputy T.

[email protected] said:


> No problem, guys. I hear ya.
> But you guys might have to wait until probably March or April of 2010 to see anything, we have got tons of stuff on hand right now.
> Rest assured that it will be made though.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark



?

Just thought that it was time to bring this thread to back to the top. Don't want the discussion to lose too much momentum.


----------



## Fusion_m8




----------



## [email protected]

Hi Guys, 

Sorry to put this off for so long, but I have been very busy with projects that have filled my schedule right up to August.

I have finished most of the work now and will put some time into this. I will update you guys on this, and if there are any good or cool suggestions. Please feel free to let me know. 

Cheers,

Mark


----------



## ampdude

Cool, looking forward to it Mark!


----------



## alantch

time to bump this thread up


----------



## maxspeeds

bump for potential updates


----------



## alantch

:bump: for anticipated updates


----------



## 325addict

As I see it, it would be fine to have a 3" TH for the M6 and a smaller one for the C-series, all with optimum heatsinking capabilities of course 

Ideally, for me they should have following specs:

The 3" TH for M6 should of course incorporate the Luminus SST-90 LED, preferably with high CRI and not too high a color temperature (NO 6500K please, please!!) It should have an M-thread of course.
It should operate, like the current P7 model, from 6V to 13V for a regulated output, that's just excellent already. Of course, it should have 3 modes, one of which should unveil the full 2000+ Lumens of this awesome LED 
That's the LED-side. Now back to incans... a 3" TH with the ability to take MN2X lamp assemblies and the like... UEBERCOOL! I would buy one IMMEDIATELY as our good fellow FiveMega ran out of his one.

For the C-series, I can imagine a smaller TH (something in the region of 1.5") with a Luminus SST-50 LED. If possible, it should have a driver that is capable of both bucking and boosting, so it will accept 3V to 13V for a regulated output. Everything else the same as above, but with C-thread.
For the incans, please make the same one, but make it so, it can accept MN2X lamps (so NOT the MN10 and MN11, choice is much wider in the MN20-style) and I would be happy.

Any chance, Mark??

I will check this thread more often, highly interesting!

Timmo.


----------



## ampdude

Mark, any updates? I'm just curious if things are still chugging along on this. :huh: There's a lot of us that would like to get ourselves a nice new old school style turbohead sometime this fall.


----------



## Dioni

Do you think it will be a Seraph accessory? or could it come HA-BK anodized also?


----------



## Brigadier

Dioni said:


> Do you think it will be a Seraph accessory? or could it come HA-BK anodized also?


 
I'd love one to put on my SP-9 that matches.


----------



## KevinL

After seeing their superb work on the P7 Turbohead, I say go for it.. I would say for their first turbohead (even though it is a LED) they have really done a superb job. I think they can do it for incandescents too. LumensFactory definitely understands what quality means. The P7 is awesome. 

SRTH style would be nice, Pyrex/Borofloat (they're actually pretty much the same thing), definitely AR coated. We were just discussing in another thread, how using the IMR-M6 lamp in a SRTH could potentially result in burning Lexan. The IMR bulb is pretty awesome and similar in potential to the ROP bulb which has definitely burned a few plastic reflectors and plastic lenses in its time so I wouldn't be surprised if a full blast run of the IMR-M6 caused some damage. 

I would also say that if the turbohead can be made M and C compatible, you would kill two birds with one stone but they probably already realize that seeing how the new 2nd-gen P7 turbohead is M and C compatible with optional adapter. It opens up so many more options; I only have one M3 but lots more C lights for example, just out of sheer cost factor alone.


----------



## ugrey

The days are getting shorter, I need a incandescent turbo head real bad!  Seriously, I think the only SureFire Flashlight/part I never got, that I wanted, was an SRTH. I would love to have one now from Lumens Factory.


----------



## KevinL

ugrey said:


> The days are getting shorter, I need a incandescent turbo head real bad!  Seriously, I think the only SureFire Flashlight/part I never got, that I wanted, was an SRTH. I would love to have one now from Lumens Factory.



http://www.lpstactical.com/hd3t.htm

It's not too late?


----------



## ugrey

No, it's not too late, but it is too expensive. Thanks


----------



## KevinL

ugrey said:


> No, it's not too late, but it is too expensive. Thanks



I agree.. I paid much less five years ago. If LF can come out at half the price for the same performance, Pyrex lens, similar ergonomics, small and light, they'll sell. They don't need to beat the SRTH in everything - they just need to make it accessible at a better price. 

The SRTH is also Type II anodized - if they can do HA, especially HABK, they already have a one-up advantage. And Pyrex instead of Lexan so we can cram the awesome IMR-M6 lamp into it and rock


----------



## Dioni

Is the project archived? :candle:


----------



## [email protected]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for the delay in this project. 
We have been busy with the E Series LED Heads recently and experienting on warm tint LEDs as well.

We have this planned and I will get back to it tomorrow and hopefully bring it out soon.
I am looking to make it in a M thread platform, so it can be used on both the M Series and C/P Series with a M to C Adaptor.
Rest assured that we will not let the mighty incan die off that easily, we are a bulb maker by trade so we will do our best to keep it going.

Off topic a bit, we have got emails asking if we will discontinue our incandescent lineups since Surefire seems to be fading them out.
The answer to that is NO, we will keep our incandescent lineup available and will expend it even if we need to.

Cheers,

Mark
Lumens Factory


----------



## oldways

Mark hello!!

Please make some IMR 17670


----------



## ^^Nova^^

I know this is slightly OT, but any chance of another run of low output 9v D26 bulbs (you made some a while ago, approx .8A draw, slightly dimmer than P60)?

Cheers,
Nova


----------



## Stephen Wallace

Not sure if making cells is really LF's thing, but sourcing and distributing a quality IMR 17670 would be good - I need something to really push a fivemega FM1909 bulb in a tri-bored Mag. 

Speaking of which, with FM out of 1909s, and WA1185 getting harder to get hold of (certainly in the UK at any rate), have LF ever considered making high output G4 bi-pins?

And yes, an aftermarket, 'unloaded' turbohead would be very nice.


----------



## Fusion_m8

With the slow demise of incandescents, perhaps LF has canned the idea of developing an incandescent turbohead?


----------



## Stephen Wallace

Please see post #126.


----------



## ebow86

Fusion_m8 said:


> With the slow demise of incandescents


 
Demise? I don't think so, incan still has alot of life to burn, us diehard incan guys will still be around for quite sometime, I know this old bulb here has alot of tungeston left :thumbsup:


----------



## Fusion_m8

Yeah...promises...



Stephen Wallace said:


> Please see post #126.


----------



## [email protected]

Hi Nova, 

We can, but the demand is the consideration as well.

Hi Stephan,

If we were to make Bi-Pin lamps and setups such as Bi-Pin modules and such, we would have done it long ago. It is not a setup we favored so we will not look into it.

Ps. I don't think there will ever be an IMR 17670, well at least for AW anyways. 


Cheers,

Mark


----------



## Stephen Wallace

Fusion_m8 said:


> Yeah...promises...



True, but at least it isn't a straight out 'no', and indeed, sounds quite promising.



[email protected] said:


> Hi Nova,
> 
> We can, but the demand is the consideration as well.
> 
> Hi Stephan,
> 
> If we were to make Bi-Pin lamps and setups such as Bi-Pin modules and such, we would have done it long ago. It is not a setup we favored so we will not look into it.
> 
> Ps. I don't think there will ever be an IMR 17670, well at least for AW anyways.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark



Mark, 

Thanks for your response. 

Did think I might was being a bit optimistic in relation to bulbs, but worth a try.  Yep, if you'll only stock AW cells (which is no bad policy), then no, we'll probably not be seeing IMR17670s - certainly not any time soon.


----------



## ebow86

Dear [email protected], I don't know how far along you guys are with this project but I hope that when designing this new turbohead you consider going with a 3 inch head over a 2 inch or 2.5 inch turbohead. I believe a 3 inch head would excite customers more so over a 2.5 inch turbohead, reason being many of us already have 2.5 inch turbohead's simply because that's all that surefire offers anymore, and I believe a 3 inch turbohead would be much more appealing to all users, especially those who already own 2.5 inch turboheads, not to mention the increased performance over a 2.5 inch head. The old 3 inch turboheads that surefire discontinued many years ago are held in high regards by many here and these specimens are few and in far between nowadays and are prized by many users, not to mention how difficult finding LA for them are. I can't see many of us swapping our current 2.5 inch turboheads for another type of 2.5 inch head, even if it is better in many ways, what I can see, is alot of users swapping their old 2.5 inch heads for a new 3 inch turbohead. Going with a 3 inch design is the best route to go IMHO. Thank you.


----------



## Dioni

Great Mark! 
Its good reading the project is not archived. Thanks for the good news!


----------



## ampdude

Well, I'm interested to see what is made, but the closer it is to an SRTH clone that fits on a C/P/Z/G/D body, the happier I think most of us will be and the more that will fly off the shelves.


----------



## ebow86

If lumensfactory releases a 2.5 inch turbohead you can count me out. I already have 2.5 inch surefire turboheads, and a whole lot of other surefire owners do as well. I don't see how lumensfactory could improve much, if any, over surefires current 2.5 inch KT heads. I could see alot of M3, M4, and M6 owners swapping their heads out for a larger 3 inch head with deep reflector, what I couldn't see is them swapping out the KT head for another 2.5 inch head with small improvements, if any.


----------



## [email protected]

The current plan was to release a SRTH clone with updated externals that have M sized thread with a removable M to C adaptor.

I will have to sacrifice one of the SRTH that I have in my personal collection to make this happen.

I am also interested in making a 3 inch version, but I do not have a sample to use at all. I will try to find a specimen to examine if I can.

Cheers.

Mark


----------



## ampdude

Updated externals as in.. maybe a grip surface around the edge of the bezel would be a cool improvement. Even just lines would be fine.

I think even a 2.5in version that is very close to the SRTH would be awesome because it would be slimmer than the SF alternative and throw better. But a 3in would be cool as well. I'm up for both as long as they don't have the extra metal bullshit hanging off of it that most aftermarket stuff does.


----------



## ^^Nova^^

How well it throws depends on the reflector not the size of the head. 

I would be interested in one 2.5" M/C turbohead. Are they going to be black and natural?

Cheers,
Nova


----------



## Justin Case

ebow86 said:


> I don't see how lumensfactory could improve much, if any, over surefires current 2.5 inch KT heads.


 
I estimate that my SRTH delivers about 2X the hot spot lumens (when using LED towers) vs the usual KT1/2 and KT4 THs. I forget what the improvement is for incan towers, but it is there. So it seems quite easy to envision how LF can improve on the current 2.5 inch KT heads. In addition, if the LF head is optimized for LEDs, I can easily envision even greater performance vs the SRTH (which was designed for incans). And for optimized incan use, a slimmer profile head vs the KTs IMO would be a big win. I dislike the chunky size and sharp edges of the KT1/2. A glass window vs the SRTH´s Lexan may allow even higher powered lamp usage.


----------



## ebow86

Justin Case said:


> I estimate that my SRTH delivers about 2X the hot spot lumens (when using LED towers) vs the usual KT1/2 and KT4 THs. I forget what the improvement is for incan towers, but it is there. So it seems quite easy to envision how LF can improve on the current 2.5 inch KT heads. In addition, if the LF head is optimized for LEDs, I can easily envision even greater performance vs the SRTH (which was designed for incans). And for optimized incan use, a slimmer profile head vs the KTs IMO would be a big win. I dislike the chunky size and sharp edges of the KT1/2. A glass window vs the SRTH´s Lexan may allow even higher powered lamp usage.



Hi Justin, just wondering, if the SRTH is the superior turbohead then is there a particular reason why surefire discontinued it and chose to replace it with an "inferior" turbohead, the KT design?


----------



## ampdude

Yes, I doubt Mark would use lexan. I would imagine some type of glass, probably borofloat. Though I think hardened mineral glass would be the best for overall toughness and could be thinner than borofloat.

And I'm hoping the glass is easily removeable for cleaning and replacement. That's almost a must for me. Hopefully it will use some type of removeable retaining ring.


----------



## ebow86

What is it about the SRTH that makes it supposedly superior to the current KT offerings? A deeper reflector? A smoother, less textured reflector? I never used one so I can't comment on it's performance, I just don't understand why surefire would discontinue the SRTH and offer a supposedly inferior design, the KT.


----------



## ebow86

ampdude said:


> .
> 
> And I'm hoping the glass is easily removeable for cleaning and replacement. That's almost a must for me. Hopefully it will use some type of removeable retaining ring.



I don't see where that would be nessecary. As long as the glass is clean when it's installed, which it typically is, the shouldn't be any reason to clean anything but the outer front exposed glass.


----------



## Juggernaut

[email protected] said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Sorry for the delay in this project.
> We have been busy with the E Series LED Heads recently and experienting on warm tint LEDs as well.
> 
> We have this planned and I will get back to it tomorrow and hopefully bring it out soon.
> I am looking to make it in a M thread platform, so it can be used on both the M Series and C/P Series with a M to C Adaptor.
> Rest assured that we will not let the mighty incan die off that easily, we are a bulb maker by trade so we will do our best to keep it going.
> 
> Off topic a bit, we have got emails asking if we will discontinue our incandescent lineups since Surefire seems to be fading them out.
> The answer to that is NO, we will keep our incandescent lineup available and will expend it even if we need to.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark
> Lumens Factory



Just a friendly bump. Since I'm sure all of use die-hard Incan fans are still drooling over a Incan turbo head!


----------



## Fusion_m8

Still nothing???


----------



## ampdude

I was just thinking about this thread the other day. I'm seriously doubting this will ever happen since it has been so long now and Surefire has pretty much discontinued everything incan, except the 6P and G2 from what I can tell.

On the other hand locating even a Surefire KT turbohead is getting difficult. I good sized run of these I'm thinking would sell out quick..


----------



## maxspeeds

I'm still hoping LumensFactory creates a SRTH 3" head


----------



## [email protected]

ampdude said:


> I was just thinking about this thread the other day. I'm seriously doubting this will ever happen since it has been so long now and Surefire has pretty much discontinued everything incan, except the 6P and G2 from what I can tell.
> 
> On the other hand locating even a Surefire KT turbohead is getting difficult. I good sized run of these I'm thinking would sell out quick..



I think that one would for sure get added to my spare parts stash if and when available.


----------



## [email protected]

Wow, this thread got necro'ed?
Well, someone actually called me the other day to ask about these.
I am still interested in making them, just not sure if they will sell.

The other problem is that "Old School" Flashaholics that actually know what these are are getting scarce and people who actually want to buy these are even harder to find.....
The M Series lamps and MN lamps are probably the only lamps even available now.
If I duplicate the exact reflector of the SRTH that is for the N62, it will not yield the optimal results. (although it will still be pretty good probably better then most turboheads nowadays, just not as good as the N62)

So yes, I am still interested, but there are much to think about before I actually make these.

Cheers,

Mark


----------



## Juggernaut

Still interested!:twothumbs


----------



## [email protected]

Love that signature, Juggernaut. So true. :twothumbs

Well, I'll look into it then.
Probably need to sacrifice a SRTH in my personal collection to make this happen, but I guess what needs to be done needs to be done.
For some reason, I always feels good with Incan projects.
Got a feeling that we might not sell much of this, but I will see what I can do here.

I need to ask you guys a question though:

Would it be better for this to be on an M Series thread or C Series thread if we were to recreate the SRTH?
Also, would it be better to make the 2.5 inch SRTH or the 3 inch turbohead?

Read some of the old posts as well, sure as hell I will not be using Lexan for the lens.


Thanks.

Mark


----------



## Fusion_m8

3" M-series for me. I've always been under the impression that the LF 3" Turbohead would be an "improved" beam version of the KT4. If users want to attach it to a C-series head, just use the C-M adapter. 

You reckon that this wouldn't sell in large volumes? Maybe, compared to all those new fangled LED thingys, but wasn't this project about a passion? Perhaps I liken this incandescent vs LED thingy to old school V8 muscle cars vs multi-valve high boost turbo rice burners... there's till no REAL substitutes for incandescent or cubic inches and cylinders.

If you could work out the price of each turbohead would a 50% paypal deposit(refundable) be enough to determine if the project will go ahead?


----------



## Flea Bag

I'd be in and 2.4 or 3 inches is fine by me though we must consider that 3 inches means we can't use our FM24 diffusers. I'd vote for M-Series compatibility too because you can always fit an adapter to use on a C-body.

Besides a turbohead, I was hoping for someone to make a P60-drop-in-compatible M-series head so we can use Malkoffs, Oveready triples and other drop-ins that can accept two or more li-ions in series. Good, compact back-up in case a bulb fails. The extra mass and surface area of an M-series body also helps with the triples and higher-powered Malkoffs to dissipate heat. Technically, it's difficult given the depth of the M-series head/collar but I think it can be done. An alternative to this is to design a special adapter to fit a Z44/C/P/Z-series head on an M-body but that would be more complex and add more contact points as a piece of brass will have to form an interface between the battery positive contact and the spring of the drop-in.


----------



## archimedes

Definite interest in a 3" TurboHead !

I understand the preference of many for the M-series threads, but I have so many more C-series hosts than M-series, and I dislike the added resistance / decreased body strength / increased complexity / increased cost / mismatched appearance - (pick one or more) ... of having to use adapters


----------



## Flea Bag

archimedes said:


> Definite interest in a 3" TurboHead !
> 
> I understand the preference of many for the M-series threads, but I have so many more C-series hosts than M-series, and I dislike the added resistance / decreased body strength / increased complexity / increased cost / mismatched appearance - (pick one or more) ... of having to use adapters



I would like to lodge a friendly protest against this!!! The C-series bodies already have the KT1/2 heads which do not have the pesky shock-isolation foam that the KT4/M-heads have! Although they're rare, they're more common than SRTHs and do show-up in the marketplace. Moreover, all the recent M-series heads have shock-isolation foam. Again, you can always screw an M-series head on a C-body but a C-head can never be placed on an M-body. M-series users have been neglected with regards to aftermarket accessories compared to C-series users!


----------



## archimedes

Flea Bag said:


> I would like to lodge a friendly protest against this!!! The C-series bodies already have the KT1/2 heads which do not have the pesky shock-isolation foam that the KT4/M-heads have! Although they're rare, they're more common than SRTHs and do show-up in the marketplace. Moreover, all the recent M-series heads have shock-isolation foam. Again, you can always screw an M-series head on a C-body but a C-head can never be placed on an M-body. M-series users have been neglected with regards to aftermarket accessories compared to C-series users!



OK, ok ... I'd probably _"buy both"_ - :devil:


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks for the input guys, still waiting for more input though.

But seems more people want the 3 inch then the 2.5 inch and more M thread then the C thread.
I actually lean on the M thread as well because there are C-M Adaptors available, maybe make the design that comes with a removable C-M Adaptor that have the same colour of the head should be a good alternative.

I am interested in the P60/D36 head for the M Series lights that Flea Bag has mentioned, I have never thought of this idea.
But are you sure M Series users would want something like that? 
It would probably look very weird and why would a M user want to use D26 style dropins when there are many high power M Series heads and lamps available already?
Please tell me more about this idea.

PS. No need to give us deposits, Fusion. We don't really work like that, never our style.  But I totally agree the incan stuff we do is more of a passion then anything. To be honest, if we are not doing it probably nobody would anymore. We are LF after all. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Mark


----------



## Fusion_m8

A 3" M head for the M-series incand lamps, I think thats almost a given.

With the D26/D36 drop-in style heads, can the existing Seraph LED Turohead reflector be modified to accomodate these D26/D36 drop-ins like what FM did? LF can sell the modified reflector as an aftermarket retrofit accessory for existing users, and also sell it as a new unit to new buyers.

After all we might be dealing with 2 distinct niche markets, LF will monopolise the market all to itself because no one else in the world is doing it!


----------



## [email protected]

Fusion, noted on the opinion on the head.

But I don't really understand what you meant on the Seraph Turbohead that can fit a D26/D36 reflector.
Do you mean a large turbohead that can use the D26/D36 pills?
Our D26/D36 pills are not removable, so I am not sure if that is a good product for us.
Or do you mean a large turbohead with a large opening that can fit the D26 or D36 reflector modules (would be 2 seperate reflectors) and provide better beam quality and throw?

Cheers,

Mark


----------



## Fusion_m8

Refer to FM's Surefire Deep Turbo C Head design and you can see how D26 or P60 style drop in modules could fit into the Turbohead reflector.
*
**NB: I AM NOT SUGGESTING OR PROMOTING THE IDEA OF COPYING ANOTHER PERSON'S DESIGN OR IDEA.***

Perhaps LF could modify the reflector in the SERAPH to also accomodate D26 modules for C and M users?


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks Fusion, now I understand.
Interesting concept, but it seems he has not sell too many of these in the 3 years that it was available.
So not really sure if it is a moving product and I don't really want to have a conflict with FM, he is a pretty cool guy.

Probably better to stick with the plan on this turbohead and maybe reviving some of the remaining discontinued SF lamp assemblies that has no conflicts with people as far as new incan project goes.


----------



## ampdude

I would prefer the 3" version for C, but I would buy an M version as well. And I'm open to the 2.5" version as well. I have a question about this. If it was for an M head, why would you focus it for the N62 instead of the MN21 and like bulbs? And others like the MN10, MN11, MN15, MN16, ect.


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## It01Firefox

I'd be interested in the 3" M head as well.


----------



## Flea Bag

[email protected] said:


> I am interested in the P60/D36 head for the M Series lights that Flea Bag has mentioned, I have never thought of this idea.
> But are you sure M Series users would want something like that?
> It would probably look very weird and why would a M user want to use D26 style dropins when there are many high power M Series heads and lamps available already?
> Please tell me more about this idea.



I know the available incans for the M-series are high-powered, but in terms of LED drop-ins, I think only your line of Seraph M-series heads are reasonably powerful. There is a TLC (or somebrand of similar name) from OpticsHQ that also fit M-series bodies but they're not that high powered either.) If there are more that you know of, please let me know.

But back to the possibility of fitting P60-drop-ins into an M-series body, the head doesn't have to be the same size as a Z44 bezel or something tiny like that. It could be made like the size of an old KL6 head or M3 head or larger to look more proportional to M3, M4 and even M6 bodies. That would help heat-sinking too. Look at how popular the Cryos cooling heads are! There are quite a few high-powered P60 drop-ins out there that are (IMHO) too powerful for their small hosts/heads.

As for higher-output drop-ins that would go well with the M-series bodies which can accept two or more li-ions, we have:

1. Malkoff M91 series (7 watts) Gets too hot in my hands in a C3 body even with Moddoolar Cryos M2 head. I live at the equator though so it's hot all year round. Air cooling does not help enough.
2. Malkoff M91A series (over 11 watts) I recall a few Malkoff users saying that this drop-in can get too uncomfortably warm/hot to be used on constant-on beyond 15 to 20 minutes. That's for guys living in colder climates. For me here in the tropics, there's no way I can take the heat of this thing in a C/P series body/head.
3. Oveready Triple Emitter Drop-ins/Lux-RC powered engines/drop-ins. The most common power outputs of these drop-ins are 15 and 10 watts on high and most are over 1000 lumens output. Fitted inside a larger M-series head and body, many (including myself) can actually start considering using these things on high constantly if we so choose.
4. Some may still choose to use NailBender or Vinh drop-ins (especially their XM-L version drop-ins) on high and quite a few of them are pushed to 3.1 or even 4.2 or 4.5 amps!
5. There are also other triples and quad P60 drop-ins though these only run on a single li-ion.

The main point here I guess is that a P60-compatible head for M-series lights has the excuse to be bigger and chunkier to fit and look nice on an M-series body. If you think the market is small though, then the other alterntaive is to consider making the first adaptor neck that will allow C heads to fit on M-series bodies. Again, there will be a bit more resistance in this design because something will have to connect the drop-in spring to the battery positive contact. However, that would mean lots of possibilities! Besides C heads and drop-ins on M-bodies, we can fit KT1/KT2s, SRTHs, Seraph bezels and all the crazy range of producs that have popped up in the format over the years. I might even consider running one of your high-powered P60 incans in a C head on an M6 body for better heat-mangement, runtime and a wide beam with huge-hotspot that an M3/KT4 head can't provide. Sometimes a smaller reflector has its advantages!


----------



## [email protected]

Hi Ampdude,

I was refering to if I truly want to recreate an SRTH, like a complete revival then it will have the same reflector that is focused based on the N62.
But I am scraping the idea and leaning toward an entirely new design of a 2.5 or 3 inch turbohead and of course it will use the current MN Series bulbs and our M Series bulbs, not the impossible to get N62.
I must admit that the N62 on the SRTH has some legendary beam and even better on the 3 inch.


Fleabag, 

Thanks for the input, I get what you mean now.
I will do some experient on current Seraph heads and see if I can come up with something feasible.
Market is not much of an issue as it will probably be a modification of the current Seraph heads.

Thanks again.

Mark


----------



## Flea Bag

[email protected] said:


> Fleabag,
> 
> Thanks for the input, I get what you mean now.
> I will do some experient on current Seraph heads and see if I can come up with something feasible.
> Market is not much of an issue as it will probably be a modification of the current Seraph heads.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Mark



Does this mean the adaptor collar idea is out and you're only considering a P60-M-series head?

An ambitious and costly but bonkers idea for all the output junkies out there with M-series bodies would be something no one has done before: Triple Drop-In P60 heads! Ie. A head wired in parallel which accepts up to three P60 drop-ins! So I could have three Malkoffs or three triple emitter Torchlab drop-ins for 3000 to 4000 lumens or have a mix and match of whatever is in the wide-market out there! I can dream right?


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks Mark for your thoughts and time.

Just a simple man over this way, 2.5 or 3" is fine by me. Perhaps an option to include a C-M adapter with the head as well. Easy to find lamp assemblies is very preferable.


----------



## Fusion_m8

Flea: 4000lumen triple P60 M assembly??? I'd drool over that too but the backbone of all M-series products has always been RELIABILITY, not sheer output. I guess its because the M-series lights are geared toward military and law enforcement end users who demand 100% reliabilty over 1000% output each and everyday on the job. I guess that is why TLS heads have such comparatively "low" outputs compared to those lights geared towards recreational and hobby end users.


----------



## ampdude

Good to hear that Mark, the MN lamps are still plentiful and it seems Surefire is still making them. I assume they will still make them for some time to come as there are a lot of incan Surefire weaponlights out there.

The N62 and N61 weren't made for very long or in very high quantities as high powered incan lights were sort of in their infancy then and they don't have nearly the following that the current SF lamps do. I would very much like to see an N62 in an SRTH someday, I imagine it has a little more throw than an MN21 from an M6.


----------



## cenz

ampdude said:


> Good to hear that Mark, the MN lamps are still plentiful and it seems Surefire is still making them. I assume they will still make them for some time to come as there are a lot of incan Surefire weaponlights out there.
> 
> The N62 and N61 weren't made for very long or in very high quantities as high powered incan lights were sort of in their infancy then and they don't have nearly the following that the current SF lamps do. I would very much like to see an N62 in an SRTH someday, I imagine it has a little more throw than an MN21 from an M6.



I have N62 and SRTH, the beam is not really for extremely throw (and the spot has slightly dark hole in close to 1M), but really round beam and nice spill; 3" T head with N62 is more thrower than SRTH.

For throw, 3" T head is the best (with N62,N2,MN21,16,15...), but the beam quality is not really nice (just my opinion), and...N62 with 3"T is the best and powerful combination.

For beam quality, SRTH is the best for current MN tower models I have seen, and more thrower than KT1,2 & 4.

So I hope Mark recreates SRTH for a optimized version of KT1,2,4 in 2.5" dia size; Also, made another 3" head (not refer to SF 3"T) but it is far thrower than SRTH.


----------



## Juggernaut

[email protected] said:


> To be honest, if we are not doing it probably nobody would anymore. We are LF after all. :thumbsup:



+1:twothumbs




> A head wired in parallel which accepts up to three P60 drop-ins! So I could have three Malkoffs or three triple emitter Torchlab drop-ins for 3000 to 4000 lumens or have a mix and match of whatever is in the wide-market out there! I can dream right?



That would be SO AWESOME! 

3" sounds good to me, as long as you can use an adaptor, don't care if it's M or C, personally I would like this set up for crazy long trow with whatever output makes sense for that perfect narrow beam, however max output works too, we have access to what ever IMR cells we could ever need so however many watts is fine by me. Though I like that multiple D26 idea, you could have a whole bunch of LEDs (yuck) or maybe one incan for that great CRI and an LED for throw / flood, could be really cool!:thumbsup:


----------



## [email protected]

Haha, the topic finally dragged in cenz. :huh:
He is the guy who showed me the 3 inch and SRTH head with the N62, legendary throw on the 3 inch and legendary beam and spot on the SRTH.
He is also the one that got my interest back about this project a few weeks ago.

I am pretty sure I am not going to copy the old 3 inch head, but design a brand new one that use the MN and M Series lamps for focus point. 
The N62 has a focal point that is a bit different then the MN and M Series, so using the MN or M Series lamps on the SF SRTH or 3 inch do not yield the absolute optimum results.

Thank you for everyone's input, I am quite clear now that I will go design a 3 inch head on M threads for the MN and M Series lamps.
Including a C-M adaptor in black will be a consideration, but the thing will be in Mil-spec HA3 flat/matt black as I am fed up with the shade whinners on the natural HA.

But please do keep the ideas coming, we need to keep the filament burning. :thumbsup:


----------



## Flea Bag

Fusion_m8 said:


> Flea: 4000lumen triple P60 M assembly??? I'd drool over that too but the backbone of all M-series products has always been RELIABILITY, not sheer output. I guess its because the M-series lights are geared toward military and law enforcement end users who demand 100% reliabilty over 1000% output each and everyday on the job. I guess that is why TLS heads have such comparatively "low" outputs compared to those lights geared towards recreational and hobby end users.



I'd agree with you on the reliability part, but high output has also always been another feature of the M series, especially the M6 and now the M6LT! In the incan days, the M3, M4 and M6 were the brightest lights in SF's line-up and now that tradition continues with the UB3T and M6LT at 800 and 900 lumens respectively. With that reasoning, I'm pretty sure a lot of SF fans still buy the M-series lights for sheer output rather than just reliability/dependability so having a triple P60-drop-in-head for high-output isn't really contradictory to what a substantial portion of the M-series buyers might want.

The issue here I think might be the loss in throw of having three smaller reflectors/optics rather than one big one. However, the new XP-G2 drop-ins by Nailbender or Malkoff or even the old M60 Malkoffs multiplied by three should result in pretty decent throw equivalent to an old MN15 or MN20 at least! Three triple XP-Es from Torchlab would also produce some serious throw! That would be costly though.


----------



## ampdude

Excellent 3"! Now that I think about it, I'd highly prefer that over 2.5" as well. Might as well "go big or go home" for optimum results. Can't wait to see the performance of this thing! 

Also hoping it is very light orange peel for maximum throw, and a removable borofloat/pyrex lens for cleaning the glass similar to SF. Something that you can unscrew like with SFs.


----------



## [email protected]

Haha, I like the "go big or go home" phrase. 
I have been spending time on LED projects for too long and their trend are smaller, smaller, smaller.
Seems I totally forgot the big head and burn hot of the incan circle.
It is good to be home.

Yes, I was indeed thinking of the removable lens design. It will probably be similar to our Seraph turboheads in that aspect.
But I want it to be lighter since it is big, so I will probably go with a much simpler design then the Seraph.
Something that works and not too heavy to maintain the balance of the light, nothing flashy just a simple turbohead with good finishing and good balance of throw/spill.
I want to create something that is balanced, not just for throw and no spill. 
Probably something that will be good to use in the outdoors like on hiking trip or outdoor searching, etc.

Cheers.


Mark


----------



## Fusion_m8

"Go big or go home"

Check out Item 3 for sale on this thread from CPFMarketPlace:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?275271-SF-Old-amp-Rare-Lights-price-drop

That's one HUGE reflector. 5-6inch? 9xCR123, what lamp is it running??


----------



## cenz

Fusion_m8 said:


> "Go big or go home"
> 
> Check out Item 3 for sale on this thread from CPFMarketPlace:
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?275271-SF-Old-amp-Rare-Lights-price-drop
> 
> That's one HUGE reflector. 5-6inch? 9xCR123, what lamp is it running??



wow! That's cool head~ ... seems removable lens.

Is it 3S3P magazine? It is awesome If runs WA1160.


----------



## ^^Nova^^

Wow, haven't been in here for a while and now this project is going ahead. Sounds like it is going to be great. Any chance of doing natural HA to match (well better than black anyway, you know what I mean) SF M-series lights? I would think most of these will live on SF bodies, I can live with colour variations, black would stick out.

Cheers,
Nova


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## ampdude

Yea, nat HA would be my preference as well. I would think most of these heads would go on nat HA bodies. I don't think there even is any M series lights in black, except for the occasional rare black M2 weaponlight.


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## [email protected]

Wow, that is some weird prototypes from SF.

Seems you guys know what the good stuff is, natural HA cost way more to produce to be honest and the defective rate is high unlike Black HA.
That is why not many manufacturers go with natural HA anymore.
Very difficult to do natural HA in small numbers, but I'll see what I can do.

Anyways, I think I am pretty clear on what we are going for here with this project.
I still have some stuff on my hands at the moment, so maybe this project will offically start in 2013.
Not sure how much we are going to sell, so probably just gonna make maybe 100 pcs or something as appreciation to the fans that keep their filament burning. :twothumbs

Cheers,

Mark


----------



## gravelrash

[email protected] said:


> Not sure how much we are going to sell, so probably just gonna make maybe 100 pcs or something as appreciation to the fans that keep their filament burning.Mark



I'm so glad you're a fan of the incan - keep up the good work and I'm definitely interested in what you're going to produce.


----------



## Justin Case

Post deleted.


----------



## Flea Bag

gravelrash said:


> I'm so glad you're a fan of the incan - keep up the good work and I'm definitely interested in what you're going to produce.



I'd like to mention this too! I'm very grateful for the continued incan bulb support!

Just last week I received the HO-M6R and I think it's my favourite bulb alongside the MN61 and MN21! Brightness of spill is outstanding and bright enough to light the ground ahead of my feet (especially in rough terrain) so I don't need to destroy my night vision with the hotspot. Very useful outdoors where I regularly walk on uneven grounds! Great stuff!


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks guys,

I have always been an Incan fan, my family have been producing miniature/subminiature lamp business for 3 generations.
So it is kind of in the blood I guess. :laughing:

Well, I understand and is very clear about the decline in incandescent lighting. 
But that doesn't stop us from making lamps till the end, we are lucky we produce them ourselves.

We did receive inquiries from customers about if we are going to discontinue some of the incandescent products such as the HO-A2.
I will have to say again that we will not discontinue any incandescent products and we are in full control of that because we make the lamp, not buying from someone else.
If we are still in business, then there will always be the lamps.

Almost everyone in the business has faded out their incandescent line, I hope we can stay as long as possible to provide the lamps to keep the passion going.

And to answer Justin's question:
No, we will not make Bi-Pin modules. It was mentioned long long ago when we first started, so if we were going to do it, it would have been made years ago.
Bi-Pin setup have their faults, there are risks of the lamp becoming loose and stuck inside the reflector head.
The focusing point is an issue as well, people buy different lamps from different companies like WA or Carley and the LCLs are different on each lamp. With the LCL being different, focusing is a problem.
There are also heat dissipation considerations and other factors, but those are the 2 main concerns.

We MIGHT make the Bi-Pin lamps available individually in the future, so users can use them on maybe Mag mods and other hotwire incan mods as the selection of lamps available are getting smaller and smaller.
Also, don't want much conflict with Fivemega as well as he has been producing the bi-pin modules for years.

Cheers,

Mark


----------



## Justin Case

Post deleted.


----------



## Steve in SoCal

I am interested in an M series head in HA black or HA natural. Most folks will want one in HA natural since they don't have a black M6 like me


----------



## scout24

Very glad to hear that you will be producing lamps for a long time to come! I'll be stocking up here and there anyhow, as discretionary funds allow. I just got one of your HO-9 bulbs in a G3 that I purchased, it's great on 2x17500's... M6 on the way, so I'll probably be checking out your offerings for it. Lots of rave reviews!


----------



## Flea Bag

[email protected] said:


> Thanks guys,
> 
> I have always been an Incan fan, my family have been producing miniature/subminiature lamp business for 3 generations.
> So it is kind of in the blood I guess. :laughing:
> 
> Well, I understand and is very clear about the decline in incandescent lighting.
> But that doesn't stop us from making lamps till the end, we are lucky we produce them ourselves.
> 
> We did receive inquiries from customers about if we are going to discontinue some of the incandescent products such as the HO-A2.
> I will have to say again that we will not discontinue any incandescent products and we are in full control of that because we make the lamp, not buying from someone else.
> If we are still in business, then there will always be the lamps.
> 
> Almost everyone in the business has faded out their incandescent line, I hope we can stay as long as possible to provide the lamps to keep the passion going.



It's very comforting and good information to hear this Mark! If I were you, I'd post a similar message on your product pages/website home page... If I didn't know your commitment to incans was so strong, I'd be unsure about investing or expanding any futher into incan bulbs and lights. From what I've read, SF doesn't sell their bulbs stand-alone anymore. Knowing what I know now, I'll be glad to commit more funds into replacing my SF LAs with yours, knowing that once I settle on a few favourites, replacements will be easily available! I won't be surprised if a few more people out there are like me and thought that LF will eventually or in the near future discontinue their incan bulbs like SF did and so won't commit more money into their incan line-up due to possible unavailability of replacement parts!

I'll next be trying the HO-M3, EO-M3, EO-M3T and HO-M4 as well!


----------



## [email protected]

Thanks guys.

And thanks for the suggestion, Fleabag.
I never think about it much, but I agree with you that letting people know that we will never fade the incan line out is a good idea.
Thanks for your suggestion.

Cheers,

Mark


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## ampdude

The 9 volt e-series lamps (EO-E2R & IMR-E2) are something very unique and incredibly useful that you offer since 9 volt lamps for e-series are not available from Surefire and can run on rechargeable cells as well as primaries. It is a shame Surefire never did release the E3e, (and possibly an MN04 & MN05 lamp assembly) though I know they did have a prototype version of the light.

The 3.7 volt EO-E1R 90 lumen lamp and even the lower output one you offer for the E1/E1e are both quite an upgrade over the stock MN01 lamp as well.


----------



## Fusion_m8

Am I the only one wanting a MN15 replacement from LF? With Surefire phasing out their incand lamps, surely many people will be looking for a EDC-able 150-200lumen alternative to the MN15 that will give very good runtime while not needing that much output. Sorta like using the MN15 in a M6 with 9 primaries... great for walking the dog around the hood kinda thing.


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## scaredofthedark

very nice to hear that LF is going to keep incand production going...
i have too many incand lights now so glad LF is around to keep them burning


----------



## Juggernaut

[email protected] said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I never think about it much, but I agree with you that letting people know that we will never fade the incan line out is a good idea.
> Thanks for your suggestion.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mark



+1 :twothumbs


----------



## Daekar

I have no interest in a bi-pin module, but I will say that my poor-man's M4 powered by your 450 lumen module (2x18650) is my favorite light, and my wife's as well, despite the presence of lights like a TK41 in the house. The color is still second to none, and the beam profile is superior to that of reflectored LEDs in terms of useful light while avoiding constricted pupils. I'm not in a financial position to build another at the moment, but I had been hoping that I might be able to someday. I have to admit, I have been coveting one of your 9P-equivalent lights for a while, and a cell extender and turbohead would be part of the purchase. While I would buy the D36 turbohead if that were the only one available, a larger M4 style one would be preferable.

Mark, I'd like to thank you for continuing to make bulbs available to us. In a time when product availability is in constant flux from other vendors, I love being able to go to your site to plan lego builds and buy bulbs!


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## ampdude

This will be a great turbohead. 3" will really throw a xenon lamp out there and make it much more effective than with a D19 (E) or D26 (C) sized reflector. I used a KT turbohead once and the performance increase with distance is indisputable. Large reflectors rule.


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## ampdude

[email protected] said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> And thanks for the suggestion, Fleabag.
> I never think about it much,



Kind of cutting through the B.S. here, but since this thread was started in 2009 and nothing has happened, and it has been good advertising for Lumens Factory, I've kind of given up hope so far as to this actually happening, since I've had a lot of experience with this type of stuff before. Call me crazy, but when nothing happened after a year I was already there. Can you give us any status updates or pictures of progress or should we just drop this as a pipe dream that's NEVER going to happen. I'm not going to bump this thread anymore until something actually happens.

It has been over three years.


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## vicv

Necro bump but ya I don't think it's happening. Too bad....


----------



## [email protected]

Well, we pretty much started on it in about March of 2013.
This thread is from 2009, but we had no interest in making anything like this until almost Dec of 2012 as you can read from my old post.

It took us 1.5 years to finish this head as it undergone many design changes.
We literally had to redesign the head 3 times from ground up because of various reasons.

But anyways, here it a picture of it and it should be available soon.
So no, it was not a pipe dream. You had no idea how hard it was to make this a reality.


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## Conte

Neat.

I hate to ask, but what is a "tower type drop in module" ?
I guess I've never heard that term before.


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## vicv

Awesome. It looks great. Conte this is a turbo head supposed to be like a kt head or something similar and should take the LA designed for them. They look like http://www.lumensfactory.com/online_shop_product.php?id=53&cid=6&sid=16&page=1
Kind of like a tower with a bulb on the end


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## Conte

Oh, ok, that would of been my guess.
So it's like a KT head but for a C Body.


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## vicv

Itmmay be m threads. We don't know yet


----------



## Conte

M threads would be kind of pointless no ? As the M series lights already come with a head. 
I suppose if you have an LED unit and want to convert back to incan. 

I was under the impression that the demand was for a big turbo head for the C bodies. 

Funny thing is I have an M turbo head kit, but no M nor C.


----------



## vicv

I agree it should be c threads but they weren't sure when making it. I thought you used d26 incan drop ins yet you say you don't have a c or m light? If you have an led unit it's just a drop in. Don't need another head


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## Conte

Yeah, I got a D26 body, but it's not a C. 

It's some chinese dealie I got off the ebays many years back. 
I takes D26 but the parts are not compatible with any surefire parts that I'm aware of. 

As for M, I used to have a Megalennium. So I got the adapters to put an FM3X on it. Still have those adapter parts. 
Used some of them to mod Maglites to take MN bulbs.


----------



## Timothybil

Well, the box says Seraph, and that is a C-compatible flashlight (I have the tri-mode Seraph 6 and love it). I think the big question is where the price point is going to be. Also, it would be nice if they eventually make an LED version. A head that size with one of their XP-G leds in it would be great for my Seraph. Thanks Mark for persevering.


----------



## [email protected]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the great comments and I think I will answer some questions here.

So, what thread? M
Why?
Because you can use a C to M adaptor, but it doesn't work the other way.

What is the point? M lights comes with KT4s
Not all of them, M3 (not M3T) come with the small head and not the KT4.
So this head can be an option for them.

But the main point is that this is an entirely different head.
- It is larger then the KT4, the reflectors are larger as well.
- It is entirely modular, you can disassemble it to clean and swap the reflectors from Orange Peel to Mirror Finish in an instant.
- Yes, both reflectors comes with the package. 1 Head, 2 reflectors.
- 1 thing that is similar to the KT4 is the shock dampening ring, which i think is a good design.
- With the modular design, we can and is prepared to make different reflectors in the near future for this head.

And Tim, 
The head is actually LED compatible.
In fact, we have made a new line of LED tower dropins that will launch with the head next week.
They are XP-G2 S2 available in neutral white and warm 90-CRI versions.

The price will be reasonable on the head and dropins.
But this is not a sales thread, so I don't want to talk about pricing and stuff.
You can check our site next week. 


Cheers.

Mark


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## vicv

This is an led version. And an incandescent version. Just change the LA. And it appears to come with two reflectors. Maybe one is designed for led


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## vicv

I made my reply before seeing marks post. This is awesome . Can't wait to get one


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## ampdude

It is the cheap HA black instead of better natural HA that would actually MATCH something, I guess that is okay if you don't mind mismatched colors. So why is it a KT4 style, I thought this thread was about a T3 style 3" turbo head lighter and smaller than the KT1/KT2 style like you promised to "sacrifice". Are the threads as sloppy as the Seraph I had a few years ago? I hope that has been improved. God damn I can only use these Lumens Factory bulbs for an hour or two at most before they darken. Such is the quality. I mentioned you need to use halogen in them, not just xenon and you blew me off. I'm not at all impressed with this turbo head.


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## ampdude

And I told you many times M threads will kill this turbo head, but you always insisted on it because of that adapter that you think people will buy. I don't understand that reasoning at all.


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## cenz

ampdude said:


> And I told you many times M threads will kill this turbo head, but you always insisted on it because of that adapter that you think people will buy. I don't understand that reasoning at all.



I personally agree with you; C thread is perfect for P,Z,C body, but under the modular / compatible criteria, Im not sure C thread is reasonable.


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## vicv

There were a lot of ideas floating around in this thread and they couldn't make everyone happy. I agree it's not perfect but it won't be for everyone. The black ano will match solarforce lights and there are a lot of those out there. Actually surprised they don't match the seraph Grey because that would help seraph host sales. I'm also not sure why they kept the shock isolating foam design but they did. As to the threading hopefully they include the thread adaptor to make it compatable
@ampdude. I'm not trying to single you out but you seem to be taking this as a personal insult. If their product doesn't work for you then simply don't buy one. And I've been nothing but happy with my d26 drop ins I've had and still do. I must have 12h on my eo4 and it's stillggoing strong. Same with my ho9


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## Juggernaut

WOW, this thread is still going, that’s surprising to saythe least, NOT bad but surprising, I really really hope these eventuallysurface, long range Incan goodness is much appreciated, or insane output from aP serious host.


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## [email protected]

I agree with vicv, there were a lot of suggestions and ideas around and we had to make a choice which to use.
We can't satisfy everyone, we can just make what we think is best.

Ampdude, no need to take it personally. I will take a few minutes to explain.

The first designs of this head was actually in HA3 natural, but the colours were not very stable and I know it is going to cause problems. 
That is why we went with the black HA, we made sure it is very nice high quality black HA.

The machines and toolings to make halogen xenon lamps are actually completely different than machines that make pure xenon lamps.
So I am not actually disregarding your suggestions, it is just that we have different machines.
Lamps with the halogen has the halogen cycle to help regenerate the filament which slow the darkening process of the lamp as you understand.
But pure xenon lamps have the advantage of higher achievable colour temperature.
To combat the problem with darkening (degeneration of the filament), we use a much higher pressure on the pure xenon lamps than the halogen xenon lamps.

As to the M thread thing, I made that decision so the product can have a wider audience because M users cannot use a C thread head.
I wanted the M user to be able to use this head as well.

If you have suggestions, I am more than happy to hear them.
It is not like this is our last turbohead, we can make more and also variations of this head.
There is always room for future upgrades and new product, my friend.


The Turbohead and LED towers are released and in the Online Shop now if anyone is interested.


Cheers,


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## Justin Case

Can the buyer specify which reflector is pre-installed in the head? Is the second reflector sealed in packaging to avoid getting foreign matter on the reflective surface while in storage? What are the reflector diameter and overall TH diameter? The LF web site for the TH says "Disassemble without using any tools, easy to clean and switch reflectors." In my experience, it is extremely easy to damage reflector surfaces when trying to clean off even the most minor specs of dust. Do you include instructions on how to properly clean a reflector? Does LF provide any cleaning kits/supplies?


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## horizonseeker

can this M head also fits the M-series weapons light such as M900?

thanks.


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## [email protected]

Hi Justin,

It comes with the Orange Peel reflector installed.
The Mirror Finish reflector is sealed in packaging to avoid getting foreign matter on the reflective surface 
The head is 67mm and the reflector is 61.5mm.

We use compressed air on reflectors to clean off dust particles when needed.
Compressed air cans are readily available in many places and is recommended for the job.



Hi Horizonseeker,

Well, it will fit since it use the same threads.
But you will need to get the correct lamp assembly since the weaponlights use the smaller version of the M lamp assembly.
The head is much larger then the stock weaponlight head as well, which might get in the way when you mount the light to a weapon.


Thanks.


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## Justin Case

[email protected] said:


> The head is 67mm and the reflector is 61.5mm.



That is an impressively thin bezel at less than 3mm thick, including the shock-absorbing system. When I eyeball a SF KT1 TH, it comes in at about 3.5mm and that is without a shock system. I"d estimate the bezel thickness for a Z46 at about 5mm and a KT4 at about 6mm.


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## horizonseeker

Hi, Mark:

Thanks for the reply. I was actually thinking of getting LF's LED tower drop-in since you mentioned that they would be released together with the M turbo head or close to each other. I have a M900A on the way that I would like to be able to switch over to LED as needed.

If not, there's always the M6 to mount this to as well.

Thanks.


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## Justin Case

As Mark mentioned, the larger head diameter may interfere with fit to a weapon. The KT4 is about 63mm diam, so you need to make sure that you can accommodate an extra 2mm of greater radius. Depends on the gun. With a M900 mounted to a Knight's RIS/RAS fore-end on a Colt SMG, a KT4 barely clears the front sling mount. It's not clear if there is room to fit even 2mm extra. For something like a Colt Sporter Lightweight that has the bayo lug ground off, you probably can move the M900 forward to clear the sling mount.


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## [email protected]

Hi Horizonseeker, both the head and towers have been released already.
Please check out our site for details.

You can of course use the head on the M6 with nothing to worry about.
But Justin is right on the points about the M900 mounting, so please keep it in mind. 


Cheers,


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## Timothybil

Assuming one uses your tri-mode LED tower, do you have any idea of what kind of throw one would be looking at? I'm thinking one 18650 (Seraph 6) or three RCR123 (Seraph 9). Also, would this be compatible with a Malkoff MD3 body?

Just ball-park figures - nothing we would hold your feet to the fire for! :devil:


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## Steve in SoCal

Very cool developments here. Can't actually believe this happened. Thanks for making the turbohead for the M series, i have 4 or 5 compatible lightsbetween M3/4/6 and FM products.

How much bigger than a KT4 is the new LF turbohead?

What are the technical specs on the towers?

Do the towers also fit and focus in a standard KT4 head?


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## cenz

Steve in SoCal said:


> What are the technical specs on the towers?



You can visit LF's LED tower web page, then select LED tint color, you will see the tech. spec.


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## [email protected]

Hi Timothybil,

That is a rather tricky question, lol. 
I would say a pretty reasonable one? The mirror finish reflector is pretty good for throw and I think it should satisfy most users. 
We only tested the head fitment on our own products and Surefire products. 


Hi Steve in SoCal,

Thanks for the nice comments.
The head is about 67mm and KT4 is about 63mm.
So it is a little bigger, but the design is different and our reflector is considerably larger then the KT4's.

Specs are on the page as what cenz said.

Yes, the towers fit and focus in a standard KT4 and actually we tested it on KT1s, SRTH and the old 3 inch TH as well.


Cheers,


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## darkangel55555

I thought this had been long abandoned. At least, I forgot about it.

This calls for a celebration. Time to buy some LF products!

I love lamp.


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## Steve in SoCal

Ok, I have ordered a turbohead and single mode tower from LF. Will report back once the package makes it to Los Gatos from Hong Kong.


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## Steve in SoCal

Ok finally some pics. Fyi, the M6 body and tailcap are black.


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## Dioni

TH and modules released??? 
Please, beamhots!!! incan and led!!!


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## ampdude

vicv said:


> There were a lot of ideas floating around in this thread and they couldn't make everyone happy. I agree it's not perfect but it won't be for everyone. The black ano will match solarforce lights and there are a lot of those out there. Actually surprised they don't match the seraph Grey because that would help seraph host sales. I'm also not sure why they kept the shock isolating foam design but they did. As to the threading hopefully they include the thread adaptor to make it compatable
> @ampdude. I'm not trying to single you out but you seem to be taking this as a personal insult. If their product doesn't work for you then simply don't buy one. And I've been nothing but happy with my d26 drop ins I've had and still do. I must have 12h on my eo4 and it's stillggoing strong. Same with my ho9



It is a personal insult because this is the worst possible product they could have produced. This is nothing at all like the thread was about. We want a light weight version of a KT1/2 non-shock isolated turbohead like the T1 style. There was no demand for a black slightly larger KT4 made in China. Who gives a rip about a way crappier version of a KT4 turbohead? Nobody. If I would have wanted to make the most non-requested turbohead design possible, I would have designed one exactly like this. There are a ton of KT4's out there there nobody wants and black does not match anything.


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## Steve in SoCal

There is some truth to your post and your passion for your ideal product is great. Unfortunately the continued ranting is weakening your argument and is not super productive.. The fact that LF has come out with this product in any form is great. It is larger than the original and has 2 reflectors to choose from. Decent LED modules are also offered, which is cool, Black only is not ideal


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## Brigadier

This is what we wanted:











This is what we got, only in black that matches nothing:






:thinking:

Just a quick FYI, the non shock isolated 9AN TH throws a much tighter beam a lot farther per lumen than the M6 or M3T TH. And it has a much wider spill to boot. A superior design, IMO.


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## cenz

Dioni said:


> TH and modules released???
> Please, beamhots!!! incan and led!!!



Hi Dioni,

I got the TH sample (pre-mass production sample) before, and tested...

Generally the TH(use mirror reflector) can push most light to the front, that means the spill is dark. And hotspot is sharp but not small, which bigger than KT-2, that means the throwing angle is bigger than KT-2.

Mine DC is destored suddenly, and i tried the smart phone but not show the different clearly.


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## ampdude

Steve in SoCal said:


> There is some truth to your post and your passion for your ideal product is great. Unfortunately the continued ranting is weakening your argument and is not super productive.. The fact that LF has come out with this product in any form is great. It is larger than the original and has 2 reflectors to choose from. Decent LED modules are also offered, which is cool, Black only is not ideal



I don't think you should bother with defending this unless your lifelong goal is being a peacemaker, or you have some stake in this. Otherwise you should tell the rest of us why you think telling the truth is weakening my posts.


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## [email protected]

There are quite a lot of reasons for the turbohead to have the final design as it did.

I have already explained that I choose the M thread because a wider range of users can use it.

What about the shock absorbing design?
The initial design do not have that, but we found that many LED towers on the market has a thicker base due to the need to house the driver.
It needed the extra clearance the shock rubber can give in order to use it.
It was true with our original LED tower design as well, but we have changed it at the end so it was not as think as the initial design.

The black colour: Well, it was supposed to be HA3 natural and unfortunately there were some complications that lead to it to be black at the end. 
I should have stand my ground on this issue with the anodizer even if it would mean a delay in the release date, it has already took so long to develop I didn't want to stall it any longer so I admit I made a mistake here.

To be honest, I don't think it is really a bad product at all. It is something different and modular that M users would found it useful.
But again, I admit I could have stand my ground on the colour issue.


So, what now.

I see something that can be done and that is to redesign the housing to bring it back to its roots.

*I will keep the modular 2 reflector approach to it, but make it a simple C thread no shock-absorbant turbohead with a flat bezel ring.
I will use HAIII natural or if possible an OD grey finish. <- I will need some suggestions here as this is a C thread head and a lot of the lights for this thread platform are black.
*
If this is what you guys want then I will have a go at it, but I don't want to make any "mistakes" again.
So please give me some suggestions and I will see how to proceed.

Thanks.

Mark


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## Timothybil

The first question you have to answer is 'Is this meeting a demand? Are we meeting our sales expectations with what we have already released?' If that is the case, then think very carefully before changing anything. I know a lot of people were blue-skying at the beginning of this thread about things that would be nice to have. But nice to have and commercially viable are two very separate animals. I have had some training in Product Design and Product Development, and know a lot of what kinds of decisions have to be made. I believe you said you tried a lot of different designs to reach where you are right now. Maybe if you have some of those prototypes still around you could offer them on EBay or wherever to see how much interest there would be in each iteration. If there is enough interest you might want to do some follow-up with the purchasers and bidders to see how valid and wide-spread their interest is. Since you are already making an M-thread head, take a couple of them and mill the threads for a C body instead. It may not look as elegant, but it would not take a big investment on your part and you could see what the demand might be. Gray anodize a few of each and offer them for sale as a limited availability item. If someone wants one that bad, maybe they would be willing to pay a little extra for it. I can see several branches from what you already have that would not be that expensive for you to do and that would probably sell as 'limited availability' items. I personally would like to see an 80 mm head so I could play mini Carbon-arc with my Seraph. It would not be practical, and would be extremely unbalanced, but I think it would be fun! (Don't do it for me, I can't afford it right now!) Be creative! Have fun with it! Think of it as something you can use to fill in with for those times when demand slows down a little. I know everyone has periods like that. If there is enough demand for something, then you have found another product for your main line sales. 

What ever you decide to do, thanks for thinking enough of your customers to even try to meet some of our dreams. We know how rare that is and we thank you for it.

May fortune smile on you and your house.

Tim


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## darkangel55555

I have to concur with the other members who have expressed dissatisfaction with the design of the term ahead. The M turbohead design is still readily available, whereas the C turbohead and the 9AN heads are all but impossible to find.

The shock mounting and ability to fit a thicker led tower in the head is of limited benefit to the incandescent fans still out there. I personally would pay a premium for the smaller, more compact, design, with a large reflector. In terms of anodize color, I have no real preference - as all of my lights are mismatched anyway. I would imagine that the C2 or Leef bodies might be paired with such a head. 

I'll probably still get one of the current batch, but it is a little redundant beside my half dozen or so M6 Guardians. 




Sent from my GT-I9295 using Candlepowerforums mobile app


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## Steve in SoCal

ampdude said:


> I don't think you should bother with defending this unless your lifelong goal is being a peacemaker, or you have some stake in this. Otherwise you should tell the rest of us why you think telling the truth is weakening my posts.




I guess one of my points is that some people will whine and complain about anything and everything. You have had an argumentative position within this thread for years. If I am LF why would I listen. 

If there is such a high demand for the ideal turbo head product why don't people just ask FM to make a custom run? Or crowd fund it, then folks can put their money where their mouth is.


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## cenz

I had a idea which told to Mark, which is un-LF lable product line for limited produce and alternative spec products, such is 3+ inches turbo head and some 5A+ imr bulb....



But anyway... Hoping more good products from LF in future.


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## Justin Case

Regarding anodizing color, I prefer black. I have both natural and black anodized SF hosts. The natural color from SF is all over the map, so I'm not sure what folks are thinking when they talk about color matching. There is no single color to match. Thus, you won't get a match, except by luck. And as Mark has stated, there are a lot of SF C hosts that are black. Thus, a natural LF TH will give you color mismatches with most of the natural hosts and all of the black hosts. A black LF TH will at least match all of the black hosts and won't look like you were a hammerhead in trying to match the natural color and failed miserably.

The main *theoretical* downside, IMO, is the shock system, at least if you are going to run an LED tower. Unless LF redesigned the shock system so as not to compromise the thermal path, shock heads have inferior cooling vs non-shock heads, and that can be bad for LEDs. However, I think that current gen LEDs should run reliably enough, especially since the mode of usage will probably not be general purpose, i.e., running the light for an hour straight.

For incan bulbs, I would want to retain the shock system, especially for a weaponlight.


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## Timothybil

The tower LED is a Cree XP-G2 which is 350 lumens max. It shouldn't get that hot even at steady on high. My Seraph 6 has the XP-G and I have never noticed any appreciable warming even on high. They appear to be using their standard driver board which provides 5%-30%-100% for the modes.


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## [email protected]

Thanks for all the comments so far.

As far as demand goes, I am going to be more cautious on this new one and probably make a small number to start out.
Not going to make a new reflector or anything 3 inch, I am going to use the reflectors on the turbohead that we have just released and which we have spent a lot of effort in.

As Justin said, I do think that going black might be the way to go as the number of black C/P/Z host definately outnumbers the Natural or OD.
Also the colour matching issue with all the different Natural and OD host.

The Natural or OD should have gone to the M head that was released, but this C/P/Z thread host should be leaning more toward black.

I will keep listening to the comments and start working on the design, the colour is something that can be decided upon last on the production cycle.

Thanks again for all the input guys, I really appreciate it.


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## Conte

I just noticed a conflict.

Your head is black but your C to M adapter is grey.

I was thinking this head would look nice on Fivemega's new 2x26650 C Body in black. But the Grey adapter would not match.


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## scout24

I, for one, will buy a C-thread non-shock isolated head smaller than the current offering.


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## tab665

any update from lumens factory on this project? i got a bored out 9P thats dying to have a dedicated turbo head on it.


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## DayofReckoning

I know this is an old thread, but there is a surprisingly small amount of information on this Turbohead on the forums here. Has anyone actually compared the throw of this turbohead with the mirror reflector against the factory Millennium Turbohead on the M3T/M4/M6?

I'm considering getting one of these but would really like to know if there is a substantial increase in throw.


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