# Franken Mag #5: The 300K lux LED Torpedo & fun with Maxa Beam



## ma_sha1 (Oct 23, 2010)

*This is the 5th and the last installemant in the Franken Mag series. 
*
Incase you missed any of the previous episodes, Franken Mags are all based on Maglite with various crazy heads mounted on Mag & must be able to throw more than 100,000 lux @ 1 meter.

Episode 1. Freanken Mag DEFT SST-50: ~115,000 lux @ 1 meter: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/268894
Episode 2. Franken MagDragon SST-50: ~125,000 lux @ 1 meter: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/280670
Episode 3. Franken MagDragon Jr. XRE R2, ~150,000 Lux @ 1 meter: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/288704
Episode 4. Franken MagDaddy PAR46 HIR, >400,000 [email protected] 1meter: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/289329&page=3

*The Final Episode (#5)*: Franken Mag LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]

I must credit LED4LYF's BFL thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/293753

His BFL was inspired by Episode 2's MagDragon & in turn, his BFL inspired me back making this Franken Mag LED Torpedo. 

BFL lens before the mod:






The MagD head is mounted to the center of the BFL body using a Adaptor modified from a 6" Range Drip pan (Home Depot), which has a hole in the middle about 2" diameter.





It's bored out to fit mag head over the thread section & then Screwed the Bezel on to lock in with ample JB Weld on the thread, so it's perminantly mounted. The Top of Bezel was grind away so only the thread section is used, this allows max emitting angle, no blocking of the beams. 

The bottom of the mag section JB welded an Alu. plate with slots to increase surface area,
as it'll be actively cooled by a fan. 9A over driving SST-50 will generate a lot of heat!





Avnet Top Bin SSR-50 is mounted to a huge custom copper heat sink into top section of mag Body. Der Wichtel's 9A SST-90 driver was used to over drive the SSR-50 to 9 Amp. The driver is therom potted to the heatsink.





A home depot door handle was mounted on top, which hold a bored mag 2C body with 2x AW 25,500 IMR as power source. 

The BFL lens looks HUGE next to the MagDragon's 90mm head with 3" Aspheric lens.
*The BFL ASpherical lens is about 4.5" or 114mm diameter & is AR coated *











The Fan cooled "Bikini Bottom" 






It's 90% done but I still need to make a trip to Home depot to find some hardwares to 
mount the Bikini bottom, This is what it'll look like with Bikini bottom on: The aerodynamic shape looks like Torpedo. 






The size is huge compared to the 1D MagDragon, but in the spotlight family, 
it's just a baby. It's as small as the Mozo L35 HID clone & much smaller than the Mozo 
Illunimator/POB clone with 8" head. 





For now, I am running it with the bikini bottom off, to take some beam shots against Mozo 35W HID with 6" Reflector, 
The Mozo measured 430,000 [email protected] 1 meter & its' the CPF popular HID AI/POB clone. 






First up, beam shot of the led Torpedo alone: Have you ever seen a beam shot this clean?
Not me, I've never seen a beam shot this clean on CPF, there is absolutely no flaws, just a pure white 
intense square spot with Nothing else.






Next to 35W HID 6" reflector: HID on left & LED Torpedo on Right.
It's on Auto exposure, so they are over exposed, can't see the difference unless I turn the exposure way down.





The lowest manual exposure my Cannon A530 will go: 1/1250 of a second. 
Left HID & Right LED Torpedo:





If you have the Armandotech Illuminator 3152 HID or POB, you know how small the tiny intense spot in the center is,
that's how small & intense the Torpedo is. Except, it doesn't have any corona or any spill. 

The spot looks every bit as bright as the 430K lux Mozo HID's most intense spot area, but the lux measurement come out to be around *330,000 [email protected] 1 meter*, about 25% less. This is due to the fact that Lux meters are calibrated on Incan yellow beam, led lacks yellow spectrum vs. incan or HID (even at 6000K HID lamp), thus it'll read less in a lux meter vs HID of same brightness. 

This has been discussed elsewhere (See post #37) :https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/270531&page=2


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## Walterk (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

Nice ! Very nice!!
And such a nice sharp beam, that really is something to envy. 
Wonder how much light of the sst90 is leaving the 3,5 inch lens, how much is compressed to that tiny spot.
(Maybe Ra or Dr. Jones or someone else can explain how this projector lens assemblys work compared to 'just a pre-collimator'? )

Hope we can expect some outdoorshots (firehouse?) some days later ? :naughty:
And can you measure the spotdiameter at a certain distance? (I am after the beamangle. )

Last Mag Dragon, as in when is it ever enough... just wait untill you find a bigger lens


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



Walterk said:


> Nice ! Very nice!!
> And such a nice sharp beam, that really is something to envy.
> 
> Hope we can expect some outdoorshots (firehouse?) some days later ? :naughty:



Yes, a perfect long distance beam shot place has been found:
From Spring point to House Island across the Ocean, it's over 3000 ft 
But I need to finish putting the Bikini Bottom on first, it's quite cold in Maine. 








Walterk said:


> Nice ! Very nice!!
> Last Mag Dragon, as in when is it ever enough... just wait untill you find a bigger lens



I am afread that My led days are about to be over, I have a Maxa Beam coming, I hope that my addition is not so bad that I end up into the Modding Short Arc, that's RA's territory, I'll be either crashed, UV blinded or electrocuted, knock on wood :sick2:
.
.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



Walterk said:


> Nice ! Very nice!!
> And such a nice sharp beam, that really is something to envy.
> Wonder how much light of the sst90 is leaving the 3,5 inch lens, how much is compressed to that tiny spot.
> (Maybe Ra or Dr. Jones or someone else can explain how this projector lens assemblys work compared to 'just a pre-collimator'? )




This is not SST-90, this is SSR-50 driven to SST-90 spec of 9 Amp,
so I can get surface brightness similar to XRE R2 @ 1.8 Amp. 

Due to the long EFL, my estimated angle of light collection is about 40-45 degree of a total 120 degree beam. So, 1/3 in the spot & 2/3 wasted. 
If SST-50 can give 2000 lumens @ 9A, then maybe 600 or so lumens in the beam? Just an estimate. 

I only used one lens, there's another 3" lens came in with the BFL works well with the big lens as "Pre-collimator". Together, they give a 2x bigger spot, but I didn't want to use it because it gives an overall [email protected] loss about 10%.

As DR. Jones/RA pointed out before, if one lens gives a perfect beam, no artifacts etc. A pre-collimator will only reduce throw as it introduce additional reflection loss. But it'll give bigger spot.

It'll help if a single lens has artifacts. For example, Cree R2 in this lens has artifacs, If I was to use Cree R2, I would have used the 3" lens as pre-collimator to clean up the beam. 

I believe Dr. Junes has a 270K lux exp. using Cree R2 on a 114mm lens, 
my lux is higher I think due to the high quality AR coated Aspheric lens.

The lens actually is two lens fused together (That's why it's 2" thick!), 
I believe the reason is to correct optical artifacts. The beam with SST-50 is just perfect, even in person, it's flawless.
.
.


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## Walterk (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



ma_sha1 said:


> The lens actually is two lens fused together (That's why it's 2" thick!)..



So in effect it is kind of a single aspheric-setup? The spot is so clean.

Any chance of measuring the focal length?


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## Al Combs (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

The final episode? Say it ain't so...:shakehead I'm sure I'm not the only one that looks forward to your creations. I like the shot next to the MagDragon. It makes your Dragon look tiny. Can you run continuously at that power level with no "angry blue"?


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



Walterk said:


> So in effect it is kind of a single aspheric-setup? The spot is so clean.
> 
> Any chance of measuring the focal length?



The focal point is about 4 inches from the lens.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 23, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



Al Combs said:


> The final episode? Say it ain't so...:shakehead I'm sure I'm not the only one that looks forward to your creations. I like the shot next to the MagDragon. It makes your Dragon look tiny. Can you run continuously at that power level with no "angry blue"?



Thanks.

Yes, no hint of blue, tint is snow white.

Need the fan on for continious run.


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## HugeOne (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

Ma_sha1, do you have Vf of the SST-50 @9A?


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## quadcree (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

That is simply phenomenal!


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

1 dont, but its similar to SST-90 which has Vf 3.85v @9A.


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## Chodes (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

Great build. That is a clean beam.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



quadcree said:


> That is simply phenomenal!





Chodes said:


> Great build. That is a clean beam.



Thanks Guys, since it beats out every 30/35 HID with 4" reflector decisively, 
I am guessing that *SST-50 @ 9 Amp has a higher surface brightness than 35W HID?

*  *Titanium Innovations **L35 **HID: *4" Reflector*: ** 225,000 CP * (measured by selfbuilt)
*N30 HID:*................................4" reflector*:  152,600 cp* (measured by Patriot)
*N30 HID*:................................4" reflector: *250,000 cp* (measured by mtbkndad & calculated by RA) 
 *Mozo L35 Clone*:.....................4" reflector*: 180,000 cp * (measured by ma_sha1)
*
For a list of various HID/Incan [email protected] 1 meter references, see post #2 in this link:*
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/296410


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



LED4LYF said:


> Very cool ma_sha1, I just saw the post, I have not been on in a while. That beam shot is amazing, wish my BLF was that clean:mecry:.



Thanks! Yes, the beam spot is quite a sight indeed, never seen anything quite like it, looks like everything went through the lens ended up in the square evenly. I tried XRE first, it's got dirty circles around the spot. 
I am starting to think that the XRE dome is lower optical quality than SST-dome, as I saw the same thing (You as well) in the mag Dragon head with XRE. 



LED4LYF said:


> that you can push the sst-50 that hard. Does it get super hot or does the fan do a good job at keeping it cool?



I can run it w/o fan for 3 min, it'll get really hot & it's not a flashlight so I can not dissipate the heat by my blood circulation/holding in my hand. That's why I decided to introduce the active cooling. 

This is a high speed fan that I used to keep cool of a 35W HID light I made for Reef aquarium along time ago, I think it'll be no problem running constant on, blowing at the butt end DIY heat sink of the short mag tube. 




LED4LYF said:


> Also have you tried it with an xre- r2 behind it, I would think it would throw much further than the sst. Any way glad to see it is almost done. Is there any numbers or maker of that lens. I would sure like to find one.



I don't think XRE R2 will get too much higher lux. 

XRE R2 1mm running at 1.8A = 1.8A/mm square of die 
SST-50 is 5 mm square. 9A/5mm =1.8A/mm square of die

If they have similar efficiency, then the SST-50 @ 9A should have similar surface brightness as XRE R2 @ 1.8A, assume the SST-50 is heat sinked enough. The copper heat sink weight in almost a pound , takes a few min to heat up, combined with a fan, I think it does a pretty good job as the lux reading are pretty stable. 

As for the lens, it doesn't have any marking. The BFL unit has no marking or model # etc either,
except a triangle label that says B&L: Bausch & Lamb ?


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## LED4LYF (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

Awsome, to bad i can't find one of those I searched on ebay but I did not find anything.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 25, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

I can sell you a set, PM me if you want it.


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## MosesM (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

Amazing stuff ma_sha, but have you thought about cutting some fins on the heatsink to optimize heat dispersion?


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## MikeAusC (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



ma_sha1 said:


> . . . .Due to the long EFL, my estimated angle of light collection is about 40-45 degree of a total 120 degree beam. So, 1/3 in the spot & 2/3 wasted. .


 
Not really - the light isn't equally distributed over the 120 deg - it's brighter in the middle.

The middle 45 degrees may be collecting more than half of the total lumens.


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## MikeAusC (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



ma_sha1 said:


> . . . . I only used one lens, there's another 3" lens came in with the BFL works well with the big lens as "Pre-collimator". Together, they give a 2x bigger spot, but I didn't want to use it because it gives an overall [email protected] loss about 10%.
> 
> As DR. Jones/RA pointed out before, if one lens gives a perfect beam, no artifacts etc. A pre-collimator will only reduce throw as it introduce additional reflection loss. But it'll give bigger spot..


 
I'm building a searchlight using two 140mm lenses - one is 500mm focal length and the other is 130mm.

When I added a 50mm collimator lens about 30mm from the SST-90 I got a double-benefit - 
- the brightness of the LED image increases
- the size of the LED image increased

I'm waiting on the arrival of 75mm DX lenses as collimators for the final version - then beamshots !


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## Walterk (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

Seems there is a new league of Led-lights upcoming...!



MikeAusC said:


> I'm building a searchlight using two 140mm lenses - one is 500mm focal length and the other is 130mm.


 
I have a spotlight up my sleeve, using 260mm-bfl500 with a 75mm-bfl40 pre-collimator :twothumbs. Working on the powertrain.



MikeAusC said:


> When I added a 50mm collimator lens about 30mm from the SST-90 I got a double-benefit -
> - the brightness of the LED image increases
> - the size of the LED image increased


Can you make it focusable, like led-lenser and the like? That would be great.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



Moses Mok said:


> Amazing stuff ma_sha, but have you thought about cutting some fins on the heatsink to optimize heat dispersion?



There are no fins on the copper sink which is burried inside, but there's fins on the butt end of the mag D tune Alu sink which is right next to the fan. 



MikeAusC said:


> Not really - the light isn't equally distributed over the 120 deg - it's brighter in the middle.
> 
> The middle 45 degrees may be collecting more than half of the total lumens.



Very good point, I stand corrected.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



MikeAusC said:


> When I added a 50mm collimator lens about 30mm from the SST-90 I got a double-benefit -
> - the brightness of the LED image increases
> - the size of the LED image increased



Did you measure the lux or did you estimate by eyes? 
Weather a pre-collimator add or reduce center lux seen much debate lately. I'd like to take this Opp. for a mini Review: 

Ra & Dr. Jones has pointed out that Pre-Collimator lens does not increase lux, it only increase spot size. This is backed up by experiments from both Ra & Dr. Jones with lux measurements data posted on CFP. 

When the primary lens is a "good" Aspherical lens, I have observed the same thing exactly. 
(Good = Able to collimate most of the light into the spot), adding a pre-collimator lens decrease center lux by 10-15%,
which is mostly due to additional reflection loss introduced by the pre-collimator lens. 

With that being said, I have also seen exceptions:

*Exception #1.* The primary lens was a big PCX lens (non Aspherical), The spot has a corona around it & the single PCX was not able to send all the light into the spot. In such case, a two lens combo can clean-up-the- beam & help to re-direct the light in corona back into the spot, in such case, the gain is more than the loss (additional reflection by the pre-collimator lens), result in a net gain in center lux/throw. 

*
Exception #2.* The Primary lens is indeed Aspherical but not exceptional quality by itself, thus causing optical aberrations: blurry die image, blue rim around the spot or a bright ring around the spot etc. 
In such case, a pre-collimator can also result in a net gain rather than a net loss. 

I believe that Mickael has stated that the reason for him to use pre-collimator in some of the DEFT *was to correct optical aberrations*. Which was an indication that the primary lens wasn't good enough of optical quality by it's self.

There may be other example of exceptions*, but the Optical Principles stated from Ra/Dr. Jones remains true if you use a high enough quality primary aspherical lens, it'll be the best to stick with single lens set-up. 





*


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



Walterk said:


> Seems there is a new league of Led-lights upcoming...!
> 
> I have a spotlight up my sleeve, using 260mm-bfl500 with a 75mm-bfl40 pre-collimator :twothumbs. Working on the powertrain.




This is insane, 260mm lens is >10 inches in diameter, the mother of all BFLs 
Can you post a link to the lens you'll be using?


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## Mr. Tone (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*

Just remember you are comparing HID *reflector* lights to your LED *aspheric* light. That is not an apples/apples comparison. Also the radiation patterns are different in HID vs LED. You will need to go to the data sheets of the HID and LED lamps in question to find out the true difference in surface brightness. Although it might be hard to calculate the SST 50 driven that hard being it is less efficient than at lower current levels.

By the way the build is super cool. I really like watching your threads.




ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks Guys, since it beats out every 30/35 HID with 4" reflector decisively,
> I am guessing that *SST-50 @ 9 Amp has a higher surface brightness than 35W HID?*
> 
> *Titanium Innovations **L35 **HID: *4" Reflector*: **225,000 CP *(measured by selfbuilt)
> ...


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## Walterk (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



ma_sha1 said:


> Can you post a link to the lens you'll be using?



I found it among the trash a neighbour put in the dumpster. sorry..
It's glass, 260mm x 38mm, thickness of edge 7mm, bfl 500mm.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: Franken Mag #5, the final episode: The LED Torpedo >300,000 [email protected]*



Walterk said:


> I found it among the trash a neighbour put in the dumpster. sorry..
> It's glass, 260mm x 38mm, thickness of edge 7mm, bfl 500mm.



Who's got big lens to throw away like that? 
I wonder who's your neighbour, Ra? Dr. Jones?


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 28, 2010)

Completed mounting of the fan cooled bikini tail.






LED Torpedo Having some fan with MaxaBeam :naughty:






Maxa Beam Normal (50W short Arc) in spot mode on top, LED Torpedo Bottom:
The LED Torpedo spot is almost as small as Maxa beam spot.
(Maxa Beam on burst (75W) is a lot brighter.) 






Close up of spot beam shots:
Maxa Beam on top, LED Torpedo Bottom:





You can try to focus Maxa Beam to get even smaller spot, but lights starts to scatter around it
& the spot doesn't get brighter, it just gets smaller. I think this has passed the optimal focus point.


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## Walterk (Oct 30, 2010)

That's an easy throw, the Maxabeam! Nice !
That wil be fun outdoor comparison beamshots.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 30, 2010)

Walterk said:


> That's an easy throw, the Maxabeam! Nice !
> That wil be fun outdoor comparison beamshots.



Yep, beam shots out door & across the ocean against Maxa Beam will come soon! 

I am building a LiFep04 battery pack for the maxa beam, the factory NiCad battery bursted during charging while I wasn't home. Thank god it didn't explode into fire, still scared me when I saw the battery busted open when I got home :sick2:

I am also waiting for the 75W Mozo Mega HID upgrade to finish & participate in the shoot out against Maxa beam. 
*https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/298002*

I was really surprized that the Led Torpedo could hang with the Maxa Beam even it's the normal mode, it's still 50W xenon short arc! that makes me believe that the Torpedo lux may be much more than 300K & perhaps like Maxbeam, need 75 meter to 100 meter distance for proper lux measurement. 

I need to come up with a place to measure the lux at 75-100 meters,
my 75W HID may come in between 1.5 to 2 million cp mark, my 5 & 10 meter lux reading & conversion system is no longer good.


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