# Wolf Eyes M90 12V Rechargeable



## [email protected] (Apr 7, 2006)

Wolf Eyes is considering an extension for the M90 so you can use 3 LRB150A batteries to drive a 12V D36 bulb for and approximate runtime of 60 minutes. They will also produce a tail cap charger like the CH-06 and CH-09’s if there is interest. 

1.	How many of you all are interested in the extension, so I know how many to order?
2.	Do we need a special charger for this configuration? The alternative is recharging the batteries in a CH-02 charger separately. 

I wonder if the new Pila 550 lamp would work in this configuration? :thinking: If does, I want one!  






Oh, I’m heading to Monroe WA for a gun show this weekend so I can’t answer questions till Monday.


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## Phaserburn (Apr 7, 2006)

Interested!


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 7, 2006)

Mike,
Would this extender be made as a limited run--when they're gone, they're gone? If so, then I'm in for one. If not, I'll sit it out until users report whether this arrangement (three 150A cells) causes hotflashling.


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## Phaserburn (Apr 7, 2006)

Hmm, why would it flash? 4x3.2V primary for new cells = 12.8V vs 3*4.2V=12.6V.


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## Chronos (Apr 7, 2006)

I'm definitely in for one.

Then I'll need to pick up the cells (2 sets?) and charger... Was Mike a "dealer" in a previous life? Just give me enough to get hooked and start paying... 

I don't see why I'd need the special tailcap to charge as I'd most likely use the standalone charger.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 7, 2006)

The 12V rating is nominal; Wolf Eyes may be counting on the small 123A cells to drop under load to a total of, say, 2.8V x 4 = 11.2V. That's a fairly modest drop; a P91 will cause a 123A to drop to about 2.3V under load.

If a fully charged 150A cell remains at, say, 3.9V under load, three 150As may hot-flash the lamp. It happened to three of my Digilight/G&P 12V lamps.


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## Robocop (Apr 7, 2006)

would this be available to fit the Raider 9D and three of the 150A cells? 
This may be just what I am looking for as I like the idea of simply switching out lamps from 9 and 12 volt all in the same light.

Ok I see above that this will fit 3 of the 150A cells and if it will attatch to the Raider I would be also interested.


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## madecov (Apr 8, 2006)

I've been screaming to have a way to run a 12v lamp off of the rechargeable batteries at full power.

having a tail cap charger tht could be used on the wall or car would be the greatest.


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## smoking (Apr 8, 2006)

i too would be interested if this extender can fit into a 9d to run a 12 volt bulb.


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## oilp8ntr (Apr 8, 2006)

Interested in extension.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 8, 2006)

Robocop said:


> would this be available to fit the Raider 9D and three of the 150A cells?


Not quite. The proposed extender would add 1/2-cell length. You'd need three extenders for the 9D, and the 9D's slimmer head and unfinned body would mean your hands would get hotter, faster.

Of course, a slim profile hasn't stopped CPFers from loving their FiveMega 3x168A Stinger mods (41mm head).


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## rikvee (Apr 8, 2006)

> "An extension for the M90 so you can use 3 LRB150A batteries to drive a 12V D36 bulb for an approximate runtime of 60 minutes."



Rechargeable _and_ 300 lumens, that sounds like a good idea, already have the batts and the charger, count me in!

Small question: how many Amps does this draw, and can the 1100mA 17500's handle that?


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## Searchlight (Apr 9, 2006)

Any possiblity of manufacturing an extender for the smaller bezeled Raider to accept 2 x 168A batteries? I'd be very interested.


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## jclarksnakes (Apr 11, 2006)

Mike,

Count me in for an extender. I know this will work because my Rattlesnake already worked with two unprotected 18500s and an unprotected LIR 123. Run time was over an hour of bright light. I am skeered to keep these unmatched cells in the light for general use though. Three 18500s in there will be safer and run longer. I would like to try it with some of AW's newer protected cells. With the added diameter of the protection circuitry I will prolly have to use 17500s instead of 18500s.
jc


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## [email protected] (Apr 11, 2006)

Well, I think there’s enough interest so I’ll make it happen. 



> Originally Posted by Paul_in_Maryland
> Mike,
> Would this extender be made as a limited run--when they're gone, they're gone? If so, then I'm in for one. If not, I'll sit it out until users report whether this arrangement (three 150A cells) causes hotflashling.


Not sure but I’m planning on buying quite a few, so there should be plenty to go around.





> Originally Posted by Robocop
> would this be available to fit the Raider 9D and three of the 150A cells?
> This may be just what I am looking for as I like the idea of simply switching out lamps from 9 and 12 volt all in the same light.


No, there is no plan to make an extender for the Raider body, yet.

.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 11, 2006)

Dear Wolf Eyes competititors:

Be scared. Be very, very scared. :lolsign:


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## zehnmm (Apr 11, 2006)

I am interested.


Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Apr 11, 2006)

Ok, Wolf Eyes say the spacer will be a permanent addition to their offerings.
Interestingly enough, Wolf Eyes said they will produce another lamp, 13V to be able to handle the brute power of the 3 Wolf Eyes LRB150A batteries. I wonder how bright this one will be, and rechargeable too, oh ya! :naughty: Paul, you were right!!! :goodjob: Apparently the quality or should I say voltage of even the best CR123A battery has been dropping over the past couple of years and this is calculated in when producing the bulbs.

Question – do we need a special charger for this set up?
I think if you keep the same set of batteries together (don’t mix them with others) for your light you can charge them on the standard CH-02 chargers, just not all at once, unless you have multiple chargers.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 11, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Ok, Wolf Eyes say the spacer will be a permanent addition to their offerings.
> Interestingly enough, Wolf Eyes said they will produce another lamp, 13V to be able to handle the brute power of the 3 Wolf Eyes LRB150A batteries.


Just as G&P has done with its G140 (14V); it was recently introduced for use with four 123A cells.



> Question – do we need a special charger for this set up?
> I think if you keep the same set of batteries together (don’t mix them with others) for your light you can charge them on the standard CH-02 chargers, just not all at once, unless you have multiple chargers.


Sounds right, Mike. With high-quality protected cells, I wouldn't hesitate to pluck any three from a pile and use them together. With four Wolf Eyes fast chargers in my house and cars, I'm set...


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## Chronos (Apr 12, 2006)

Newbie question: Is there an alternative to the W/E LRB150a cells if one were to use this extender? The reason I ask is simply the cost. About $100 for three cells and a 2-cell charger. Would protected 18500s and/or 17500s work? If so, any suggested vendors?

Thanks in advance!


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## zehnmm (Apr 12, 2006)

FYI, I bought the M100 rechargeable setup with the 9V bulb/200 lumens and the WE charger and 168A batteries. I also bought the 12V/300 lumen bulb.

I have been running the 12V bulb on the 168A's as well. Not as bright as on 4x123 primaries, but not bad.


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## Chronos (Apr 12, 2006)

OK, so I redid a search and came up with the following:
Size Reference :

18650 = 168A / 600P
17670 = 168S / 600S
* 18500 = 150A* / 300P
17500 = 150S / 300S
14500 = AA
16340 = CR123

*** The 5 digit number is deciphered like : 18650 = 18mm ( diameter ) X 65mm ( length ) where the last ' 0 ' stands for cylindrical cell

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/97268&highlight=150a

So it looks like I could order 3x protected 18500s


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2006)

Wonderful news!!! The spacers and new 13V bulbs will be available with my next shipment, about 3 to 5 weeks away. I’ll add these items to our website in a week or so.


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## Chronos (Apr 12, 2006)

Great- I'll preorder. Will you have a 13v bulb for the M100 head?


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2006)

> Originally Posted by Chronos
> Great- I'll preorder. Will you have a 13v bulb for the M100 head?


No, lets see how the 13V D36 works out first. If there is enough potential volume for Wolf Eyes to justify production I'm sure the M100 13V and the Eagle-4 13V will be available as well.


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## Chronos (Apr 12, 2006)

Gotcha. Argh. Decisions. I'll probably still buy the extension and bulb though I've grown to LOVE the M100 head. Looks like I'll have to blow the dust off of the standard rattlesnake head...


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 12, 2006)

Chronos said:


> OK, so I redid a search and came up with the following:
> Size Reference :
> 
> 17670 = 168S / 600S
> **17500 = 150S / 300S


150S/168S is Pila and Microfire's designation; Wolf Eyes calls them 150B/168B.



Chronos said:


> *** The 5 digit number is deciphered like : 18650 = 18mm ( diameter )


Close. 18_xxx_ means that the diameter is at least 18.0mm but less than 19.0mm. It can be as wide as 18.9mm!


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## Chronos (Apr 12, 2006)

Ahh. So the cells may be different diameters (read:too wide). Is the 105A= 18500 true then?

What is the inside diameter of the rattlesnake body? I can see the benefit of purchasing the Wolf Eyes batteries.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 12, 2006)

Chronos said:


> Ahh. So the cells may be different diameters (read:too wide).


In theory, yes. But I've never heard of a 18_xxx_ cell being too wide to slip in and out of a Wolf Eyes body. However, the old AW 18xxx was too wide to fit a Microfire body.



> Is the 150A= 18500 true then?


Yes.



> What is the inside diameter of the rattlesnake body?


Maybe someone with a caliper can tell us.


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## Phaserburn (Apr 19, 2006)

Just placed my order for the WE M90X. I was thinking perhaps it would be possible to add 4 of these extenders together to get a 3 x 18650 light. Runtime would potentially be back up to 80 mins.

If there was a charging tailcap option, you'd have a light that would be competitive with the Magcharger, Tigerlight etc for bright and internally rechargeable, while alot smaller/lighter, even with 3 cells. Then, if the Pila 550 were to fit, there'd be more horsepower for the driving. In theory...


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## vortechs (Apr 19, 2006)

Phaserburn said:


> Just placed my order for the WE M90X. I was thinking perhaps it would be possible to add 4 of these extenders together to get a 3 x 18650 light. Runtime would potentially be back up to 80 mins.



There have been several comments about other possible extensions. It would be nice to have two extension sizes available, a 1/2-cell size and a 1-cell size. 

I can think of several uses for a 1-cell extension, such as converting a 3 x CR123 light into a 2 x 18650 light. 

Perhaps if the 1/2-cell extension sells well, they will make also make a 1-cell version.


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## Robocop (Apr 20, 2006)

Ok I may simply not be reading this thread correctly as the first post states this extender is designed to allow the use of 3 150A batteries. I now know this extender will not be made to fit the Raider body however the raider body uses the 150A cells. Will this extension not fit the Raider at all or is it some other reason it will not work?

Sorry but now I understand....... after looking further I see that the M90 uses the 168 cell. So with this extender the light will then use the 150 size cells. It may be dreaming however it would be nice to maybe later see the extender to allow for 3 of the 168 cells as well as an extender for the Raider allowing 3 150 cells.

If my math is correct this extender takes the M90 from a 4 123 cell light that uses 2 of the 168 cells to a size of 4-1/2 123 size light now using 3 of the 150 size batteries.

Maybe it would be possible to use 2 extensions on the Raider and have the ability to fit 3 of the 150 batteries inside....wait a minute it would take 3 extensions I believe if the extension only allows for a half of a 123 battery size increase.....is this correct thinking as far as the extension size?


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 20, 2006)

You're correct: It would take three of these doohickies to let the Raider use three 150A cells. Let's see how much it costs.

As I've written, the Raider body and 42mm head were designed to save a bit of weight and size; the 9D won't cool as well as the Cobra. I doubt Wolf Eyes would be happy to see their 12V lamp used outside of the Cobra head and body unless you give Scout's Honor that you'll use it only for short bursts.


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## Robocop (Apr 20, 2006)

I wish I could promise that it would only be used in moderation however that is not possible with my work. I recently had a chance to use my Raider while searching a large industrial complex for several suspects who jumped from a stolen car. It was on for at least 30 minutes and performed perfect however I did notice it became pretty hot.I have never really thought of the heat issue however I see that it is surely a factor with this type set up.(12Volts)

I am actually considering a purchase of the M90 standard model without the charger and simply adding the extender. The M90 minus charger and cells is really not that expensive. With this set up I could simply use the same batteries for both the Raider in 9 volt as well as the M90 on three 150 batteries. I have a few spares in the 18500s and could have enough to have the M90 in my duty bag already loaded with batteries and keep the Raider on my belt.

Now that was not so hard after all....I feel much better now


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## Robocop (Apr 20, 2006)

Paul by reading your other posts here you think it would be a 50/50 chance that the standard 12 volt D36 would hotflash with 3 150 cells? I would of course have to have a few of the new lamps that Mike spoke of however I feel that the cost would surely not be much more than the standard 12 volt lamp assembly. 

Can you get the idea that I really do want to see this light in my greedy little hands. If the performance is even 30 percent greater than my 9D then that will be amazing to say the least. When speaking of 200 lumens vs 300 lumens is this a very noticeable difference? Also anyone care to guess the difference in output with the standard 12 Volt D36 and the 13 Volt lamp planned for this extender? I am sure it would be minor however just curious as to how much additional (if any) the increased from 12 to 13 volts would mean in real use.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 20, 2006)

Robocop said:


> Paul by reading your other posts here you think it would be a 50/50 chance that the standard 12 volt D36 would hotflash with 3 150 cells?


I'd say it will almost certainly hotflash eventually.



Robocop said:


> When speaking of 200 lumens vs 300 lumens is this a very noticeable difference?


Yes--at the same difference you can see when going from a P90 to a P91. 



Robocop said:


> Also anyone care to guess the difference in output with the standard 12 Volt D36 and the 13 Volt lamp planned for this extender?


None. The 13V light will simply run less "hot," letting raw voltage make up for "hard driven."


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## vortechs (May 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> No, lets see how the 13V D36 works out first. If there is enough potential volume for Wolf Eyes to justify production I'm sure the M100 13V and the Eagle-4 13V will be available as well.



Would the 1/2 cell extender work with any of the Wolf Eyes bodies? For instance, would two extenders on a Eagle E-3A 3-cell body allow it to use two 18650 rechargeable cells, like a E-4A? 

I guess a related question would be, are the various Wolf Eyes bodies and heads compatable with each other? For instance, could someone get a E-3AX Eagle (3x 123 cell) and a M90 Rattlesnake (2x 18650 cell) then switch the heads depending on which light they wanted to be shorter on any given day?


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## nuggett (May 4, 2006)

will this extender fit my eagle 4?


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## jclarksnakes (May 4, 2006)

....I emailed Mike today (thursday) to ask about the availablitiy of the extenders. He says they are just in and should be up on the website soon. Tonight maybe. For those people asking about using the extender on other Wolf Eyes lights I think the answer is probably yes so long as they can use the same tailcaps. The tailcaps are the same on my Raiders and my Rattlesnake. The Tailcap for my 2 cell Sniper is shorter and fatter and so does not interchange. This all does raise some interesting questions about using two extenders to make one of the three cell lights into a 4 cell light. 

....I have found that the 2 cell Sniper is really sweet using the 9volt lamp assembly and two unprotected rechargeable 123 cells. This light is at least half an inch shorter than a Surefire G2. Very bright little light but runtime is pretty short.
jc


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## Chronos (May 5, 2006)

Great news indeed. I'll check Mike's website during the weekend.


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## Dukester (May 5, 2006)

Not really familiar with the LRB150A cells but would an ICE/Triton work to charge them up?

Dave


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## Dukester (May 5, 2006)

Never mind... After further reading of this thread and looking at the PTS Website I would be able to use my 17500 unprotected/protected cells therefore using my ICE to charge them up...

Dave


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## jclarksnakes (May 5, 2006)

I ordered the 13 volt kit today. With the CPF sweet price you get the extender and the new 13 volt lamp assembly for $21 and change. You can also order it with charger and three rechareable Wolf Eyes 150 cells.
jc


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## [email protected] (May 5, 2006)

Ok, the new 13V bulb and extender have been added to our website. I will add some pictures next week when i get the chance. Here is the link: http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/productList.aspx?uid=1-20-40
I'm working a gun show in Monroe, WA this weekend. Anyone that stops by our table and mentions this thread will get an additional 5% off the allready great CPF price.

Have a great weekend!!!


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## Chronos (May 6, 2006)

I got my order in this morning. Thanks again, Mike! 

BTW I sent you an email about the shipping address. 

:rock:


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## vortechs (May 8, 2006)

vortechs said:


> Would the 1/2 cell extender work with any of the Wolf Eyes bodies? For instance, would two extenders on a Eagle E-3A 3-cell body allow it to use two 18650 rechargeable cells, like a E-4A?
> 
> I guess a related question would be, are the various Wolf Eyes bodies and heads compatable with each other? For instance, could someone get a E-3AX Eagle (3x 123 cell) and a M90 Rattlesnake (2x 18650 cell) then switch the heads depending on which light they wanted to be shorter on any given day?



From the messages, it sounds like the tailcaps for the larger Wolf Eyes lights are interchangeable so the battery extension may work on several different bodies, but it would be nice to have a list of which bodies the extender will fit on and which it won't. 

Does anybody have an Eagle series (focusing head E2, E3, or E4) and a M90 Rattlesnake to check if the heads can be swapped or if the design/threading prevents this?


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## vortechs (May 8, 2006)

jclarksnakes said:


> ....For those people asking about using the extender on other Wolf Eyes lights I think the answer is probably yes so long as they can use the same tailcaps. The tailcaps are the same on my Raiders and my Rattlesnake. The Tailcap for my 2 cell Sniper is shorter and fatter and so does not interchange. This all does raise some interesting questions about using two extenders to make one of the three cell lights into a 4 cell light.
> jc



Here is another question on the tailcaps. I believe the LED tailcaps come in 9V and 12V versions. I assume the difference is how large of a resistor is used, but would somebody please let me know if the LED tailcap appears to have any regulation electronics. 

I assume the two Li-Ion rechargeable Wolf-Eyes lights would use the 9V LED tailcap. Does anybody know if the reduced voltage (7.2V vs 9V) significantly affects the brightness of the LED's. 

I assume the new "13V" M90 package would use the 12V LED tailcap but I would be interested to hear if could it work with the 9V one or if there are problems with using the 12V LED tailcap with the "13V" upgrade. 

Thanks.


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## Robocop (May 8, 2006)

Chronos can you give us an idea of the output of this new lamp? Do you have a 9 volt D36 to compare it with or something similiar?

I am trying to talk myself into not ordering this lamp as I have nothing it will fit inside. As the site says it is a 13 volt D36 I assume it should fit my Raider Bezel that uses the 9 Volt D36 however others say it will not. Regardless I would attempt to find a way to power it however would most likely end up buying the entire light. It seems you are the first to actually have one and I am curious if it is as white and bright as their other lamps.....have you had a chance to try it yet?


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## Chronos (May 8, 2006)

Robocop,

I don't have it yet. I need to order the cells too- I'll try to do that today. The only bulb I'll be able to compare to once all the pieces arrive will be the standard 12v bulb in the M90X.


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## Chronos (May 8, 2006)

I saw a question earlier about the LED tailcap. Will the extra 1v overdrive the LED tailcap? Should I only use the stnadard clickie tailcap?


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## vortechs (May 12, 2006)

Chronos said:


> I saw a question earlier about the LED tailcap. Will the extra 1v overdrive the LED tailcap? Should I only use the standard clickie tailcap?


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## [email protected] (May 12, 2006)

> Originally posted by vortechs
> I assume the new "13V" M90 package would use the 12V LED tailcap but I would be interested to hear if could it work with the 9V one or if there are problems with using the 12V LED tailcap with the "13V" upgrade.


All tail caps that work with the M90X will work with the M90-13V. I like to use the 9A button tail cap with my personal M90-13V because it’s a little smaller but I do not recommend using the 9T tail cap (9V LED)


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## vortechs (May 12, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> All tail caps that work with the M90X will work with the M90-13V. I like to use the 9A button tail cap with my personal M90-13V because it’s a little smaller but I do not recommend using the 9T tail cap (9V LED)


 
Thanks Mike. 

It is good to know that the 9A-TC button tailcap and 9H-TC pressure switch tailcap from the Raider will also work on the M90 body, in addition to the M90A-TC button tailcap and M90T-TC 4-LED tailcaps that are specifically for the M90. 

Thanks for the tip about the 9A-TC button tailcap being somewhat smaller than the M90A-TC.


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## Chronos (May 12, 2006)

I got the bulb and extender in the mail yesterday- thanks again for the exceptional service Mike! The extender is nicely finished and I look forward to using it. I'm off to Eastern Europe for the week next week but I'm going to try to purchase some 18500s and a charger so I have it to play with when I get home.

Mike, any noticeable increase in real-world brightness and how is the battery life with the rechargeables?

Glad I can still use the LED tailcap. Also keep me posted on the 13v M100 bulb if/when it comes to fruition.

Thanks!:rock:


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## Ronin22 (May 14, 2006)

Hey all. This is my first post at CPF after reading the fantastic and endless amounts of information on here. Quite a site. Anyway, I'd like to bring this topic back up to the top. For those of you who have the M90 with the new 13V and extended battery could you tell us what types of run times your getting and how much it improved the beam over stock? Beamshots? Thanks for any info.


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## jclarksnakes (May 16, 2006)

I got my 13volt lamp and extender from PTS last week. There was a problem with the extender and I emailed Mike and he replaced it quick. I think the female threads on the extender were not cut cleanly full length and so it did not screw fully on and there was poor continuity between the extender and the Rattlesnake body. The replacement works great. I am runnning it with three of AW's unprotected 18500 cells. It is a little brighter than it had been with the 12 volt lamp and four primary cells. The beam is like the 12 volt beam with a good balance of central hotspot for throw and usefull spill. The bulb is slightly longer than the 12 volt which BTW has a longer bulb than the 9 volt lamps and so the bulb is not perfectly centered and there is an artifact in the beam but it is not noticebale outdoors. It does show up doing a whitewall test though. It is still a very cllean beam but not perfectly clean like the beams from both my D26 and D36 9 volt Wolf Eye Raiders. This modification makes for a very inexpensive to use BRIGHT light. The only thing better than free lumens is lots of free lumens. I have not done a runtime yet. 
jc


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## Ronin22 (May 16, 2006)

Thanks for the write up JC. I have a M90 13V on order so when it comes in hopefully I can get some beamshots up.

Does anyone know how I can test the lumens? Sorry, I'm not well versed in this area but would like to see if it puts out 300+ lumens as advertised.

Thanks


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## jclarksnakes (May 16, 2006)

Ronin,
...Based upon total output number comparisons in the flashlight reviews (flahlightreviews.com, look at total output for Surefire M3 and Wolf Rattlesnake) I think best bet is actually around 265 lumens for the 12 volt. With the 13 volt it is a lttle brighter but I would hesitate to say whether it is 5 lumens brighter or 25 lumens brighter.
jc


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## vortechs (May 17, 2006)

Ronin22 said:


> Thanks for the write up JC. I have a M90 13V on order so when it comes in hopefully I can get some beamshots up.
> 
> Does anyone know how I can test the lumens? Sorry, I'm not well versed in this area but would like to see if it puts out 300+ lumens as advertised.
> 
> Thanks



Testing the total lumen output of a light is actually rather difficult. I believe it requires special equipment (an integrating sphere). So unfortunately we probably won't see a scientific test of the output anytime soon. There are some simpler setups you can make with a light meter and a box but I haven't done it myself so you'll have to search around on CPF to find out more about them. 

Although the M90's 12V D36 bulb is advertised to put out 300 lumens, the flashlight itself doesn't put that many lumens out the front due to losses in the reflector and lens. This is the difference between bulb lumens and torch lumens. Wolf Eyes is rating their new bulbs according to bulb lumens (I believe their older bulbs were rated according to torch lumens). 

Hope this helps.


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## Chronos (Jun 9, 2006)

A quick update: I got the W/E up and running last night with the extender, 13v bulb, and rechargeables. WOW! I love that ram of light effect. It is certainly bright, it seems to be at least as bright as the 12v M90X head on primaries. I used to wonder if a light can be too bright... I know this is no ROP or M11 but the amount of light is almost insane. I could illuminate my entire backyard in near-daylight, and I think the light is far too bright to casually walk with down the sidewalk or trail. Unless the beam is directed well out in front of me, the hotspot is almost too hot to look at for any amount of time. 

I'm heading to the beach house tonight so I'll bring along the Gladius, the M90X with all accessories (12v, 13v, extender, primaries, M100X head), the M-11, and maybe the Mag LUXIII and try to get some beamshots from my back deck. I want to try the 12v bulb in the rechargeable format (Mike said in an email he hasn't seen or heard of any hot flashing yet). 

I can't wait to see the flashlightreviews.com review of the M90X rechargeable setup too.

Thanks again Mike for the wonderful service! You truly rock. Can I order the G&P Scorpion 500 from you? Please???


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## vortechs (Jun 12, 2006)

vortechs said:


> Would the 1/2 cell extender work with any of the Wolf Eyes bodies? For instance, would two extenders on a Eagle E-3A 3-cell body allow it to use two 18650 rechargeable cells, like a E-4A?
> 
> I guess a related question would be, are the various Wolf Eyes bodies and heads compatable with each other? For instance, could someone get a E-3AX Eagle (3x 123 cell) and a M90 Rattlesnake (2x 18650 cell) then switch the heads depending on which light they wanted to be shorter on any given day?



I have now tried putting two 1/2-cell extenders together. It looks like the conductive sleeve on the inside of the extender is not long enough to touch the sleeve of the other extender, so you don't get a complete circuit. It will probably require some sort of conductive ring or washer between the two extenders to get this configuration to work. I need to clean the theads on my extenders and play with this some more but I haven't had time to experiment with it yet.


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## Chronos (Jun 16, 2006)

FWIW I tried out the D36 12v and the M100X 12v head/bulb and was very, very impressed with the output. No hotflashes.

The 12v bulb puts out a cleaner "wall of light" than the 13v bulb. It is noticeably brighter than the 4x123 12v bulb combo.

The M100X now ROCKS more than ever! :rock: Running it with the 13v battery/extender setup it is absolutely piercing. The corona is white, bright, and tight and the spill beam is large and white too. I just got back into town (long, long fight) so no beamshots tonight. If I can find the time I'll do it this weekend. 

I was actually considering selling my Wolf Eyes setup. It isn't going to happen. This is a real photon cannon. Now if I can only find a SF-like grip for it. I wish I had a way to measure the lumens... the tight beam on the M100X head just throws and throws and throws, noticeably brighter than the 4x123 setup. For comparison, the M2 looks like a birthday candle when the beams are compared. 

I am still impressed with the quality of the Wolf Eyes light and accessories too. Though it isn't HA the finish is flawless and the threading is smooth too.

Thanks Paul_In_Maryland and Mike @ PTS for coming up with this 13v combination. I don't think I'll pick up the Scorpion 500 any time soon as this thing is incredibly bright, and if I need spares I can turn to Mike for great service.


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## jclarksnakes (Jun 18, 2006)

Holy Cow!!! I put the 12volt lamp assembly back in the M90 with the extender and three 18500s and this thing is quite a bit brighter than it had been with the 13 volt lamp assembly. Worse thing that can happen is it will burn out the 12 volt lamp assembly. No real problem there. The 12 volt lamp assembly was just sitting in my flashlight junk box doing nothing anyway.
jc


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## Chronos (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm pretty sure it is overdriving the lamp (if that is technically accurate- I'm no engineer!) but it puts out a great wall of white light. Maybe the lamp's service life is shortened but I have only used this light in short bursts anyway. 

With the M100X turbo head and the 13v extender it seems to throw forever. I really like this setup as there is a nice, bright spill beam and a piercing and tight throw beam. I'd love to see a comparo between this setup and the M4 and the Scorpion 500. I'm sure the W/E is down on lumens compared to the Scorpion but it can't be by much when viewed by the human eye. 

Next time I'm at my friend's place we'll hike over to the high power lines in his neighborhood and see how many towers we can illuminate with the M100X 13v setup.


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## beefy6969 (Aug 23, 2006)

Chronos said:


> With the M100X turbo head and the 13v extender it seems to throw forever. I really like this setup as there is a nice, bright spill beam and a piercing and tight throw beam. I'd love to see a comparo between this setup and the M4 and the Scorpion 500. I'm sure the W/E is down on lumens compared to the Scorpion but it can't be by much when viewed by the human eye.
> 
> Next time I'm at my friend's place we'll hike over to the high power lines in his neighborhood and see how many towers we can illuminate with the M100X 13v setup.


 
So you're saying the recipe for this is...?
M100X Rattlesnake Wolf Eyes Flashlight? $90
& M90-13V Conversion Kit $20?


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## Chronos (Aug 23, 2006)

Yes, that is the recipe! Pick up the M100X, the extender, and 18500 cells.


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## vortechs (Aug 27, 2006)

Here is a mini-review of the M90-13V: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=130633


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## shoe (Sep 7, 2006)

Review is out (here)

It caught my eye and actually brought me here as it's listed on their (TOP PICKS) page.


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## shoe (Sep 7, 2006)

Hi everyone.
I've got my eye on the M-90 and I like freeee lumens so rechargeable will definately be the route I'm going.

As I already have an AW charger, would it be best to get the rechargeable
M-90 or get the stock model and buy the upgrade kit using batteries from AW?

I'm interested in the 13v 300 lumen model.
You're all killing me with your D-X, M-9 abbreviations etc.. so I'm not sure what the exact specification is.

I have seen mention of some of some of you guys buying the smaller tube lights an using the 3.7V batteries and then swapping the bulb to a lower voltage one to offset the difference/increase brightness. Still a noob and have no experience in modding etc...


In a nutshell, I'm looking for 
- free lumens
- reasonable size (around the size of a Gladius I guess)
- reasonable runtime (60 mins or close to it)
Can anyone suggest a solution?
(In english, not in techospeak pls. )


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## shoe (Sep 7, 2006)

Chronos said:


> Yes, that is the recipe! Pick up the M100X, the extender, and 18500 cells.



Wow, that head is HUGE at 2.5 inches. Do you have any receipes for a belt/pocket carry for fishing/camping occasions EDC use?


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## Chronos (Sep 7, 2006)

I used a Maglite polymer flashlight ring- the one that loops over a belt. I found it worked perfectly and the light wouldn't fall out unless I managed to perform a header off a trail and down a hill. I also often wear a 5-11 tactical vest when out in the boonies; it has a few large, deep pockets on the front as well as internal belt loops for an accessory belt.


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## shoe (Sep 8, 2006)

Wow. That's too much for me, I have enough thing on my belt as it is. I'll have to think about this some more. I'm not sure what I want just yet.

I see a lot of discussion on the extender and using the 18500's (2 = 3 CR123a's) why is this the preferred configuration? Why not just throw in some rechargeable 123a's?

I think my problem here, aside from not knowing exactly what I want is that there's so many options/configurations that can be done with this light that I'm getting confused. lol


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## vortechs (Sep 8, 2006)

shoe said:


> I see a lot of discussion on the extender and using the 18500's (2 = 3 CR123a's) why is this the preferred configuration? Why not just throw in some rechargeable 123a's?



Hi shoe, 

If you're new to CPF and Li-Ion cells (rechargeable RCR123's) I advise against trying the RCR123 cells in any incandescent lights until you've done a lot of reading in the Incandescents forum. Basically there are two things you need to consider with batteries, the voltage and how much current they can safely deliver. There is a limit to how much current a Li-Ion cell can safely deliver. The limit is based on the capacity of the cell. The low capacity, short RCR123 (16340) Li-Ion cell cannot safely deliver enough current to run a powerful Incandescent bulb. The larger 18500 (1.5x longer) or 18650 (2x longer) Li-Ion cells can deliver enough current for all but the most powerful bulbs (like the ROP-HI). While it is possible to use a couple of unprotected 16340 cells to get a 9V incandescent bulb to light up or three unprotected 16340 cells to get a 12V bulb to light up, the high current draw is very hard on the cells and I wouldn't recommened it unless you understand the dangers of Li-Ion cells and know EXACTLY what you are doing.

Here are some starting points for info on 16340 cells and incandescent bulbs: 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1512434&postcount=81
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=115025


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## shoe (Sep 9, 2006)

Thanks for the reply! I have been reading a bit here and there and have seen mention of bulbs vaporizing and lenses shattering from mishaps.
I do know of the dangers of Li-Ion and have already chosen the protected route just to be sure. I already have 2 -17670's that I bought from AW in a rush but don't know what to do with them  . I was going to get a small Surefire but then realized that the cells run at 3.6 volts, so I'd be losing a little power. In any event, I will read up on those links and see what's going on. It was so easy over in the LED forums, my Jetbeams are regulated and can accept various batteries so I just pop in whatever.  I thought of getting an A2 Aviator but you guys are rubbing off on me and I want MORE LUMENS! lol

I've seen MANY references to the term ROP, could you tell me what that is?

EDIT: Sorry, I've been poking around so many forums and asking/reading/learning so much that I just realized that this is off topic for this thread. My questions on the Wolf Eyes has become a general rechargeable/incand question. I'll lurk around a bit and see what combos you guys come up with and ask again if I see something that interests me.

That M100X turbo head and the 13v extender combo sounds good but I thought about it and just can't cope with the size of the head.


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## vortechs (Sep 9, 2006)

I hope I didn't seem too patronizing or cautious but small or unprotected Li-Ion cells in powerful incandescent lights are something that a person should learn about before trying. As you learn more, you'll get a better idea of what can and can't be done and why. Often, protected cells won't let you do something, which is usually a good indication that you're pushing the envelope. 

Yes, the LED lights are often a little more forgiving about voltage and current than incandescents. 

ROP stands for Roar of the Pelican. It is a common [email protected] mod that anybody can do fairly easily. Read all about it here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/120462 (note that this thead is a sticky at the top of the Incandescent forum). 

We're getting off the topic of the thread (the WE M90-13V) so I suggest looking around for another thread that seems to cover the topic you're intrested in and use it. 

BTW: If any moderators are reading this, This whole thread should probably be moved to the Incandescent Forum.


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## shoe (Sep 13, 2006)

vortechs said:


> I hope I didn't seem too patronizing or cautious but small or unprotected Li-Ion cells in powerful incandescent lights are something that a person should learn about before trying. As you learn more, you'll get a better idea of what can and can't be done and why. Often, protected cells won't let you do something, which is usually a good indication that you're pushing the envelope.
> 
> Yes, the LED lights are often a little more forgiving about voltage and current than incandescents.
> 
> ...



No worries, I wasn't offended at all. I've seen some stories about unprotected Li-Ion usage gone bad and am not willing to go that route, especially since I will most likely run my batteries down to the bottom before changing. (This I am told will ruin unprotected batts.)

Anyway, a quick trip to the (manufacturer's website)
has cleared up a few things for me regarding model numbers and such. Most of the models seem to have the same basic chassis, the variation in the model names referring to different setups e.g. chargers, tailcaps etc...

From what I've figured out, I'm back with my original plan except now I have a better idea of how to go about it. In a way, I'm forced to go this route as PTS is unable to export batteries.

My plan is basically to get the base model 90-X Rattlesnake light/chassis and the 13V bulb/extender upgrade kit. The batteries I will get elsewhere.

The confusion I had came from the fact that the I couldn't figure out why the bulb was rated at 13V, while the (batteries) were rated at 3.7 V.
3.7V * 3 = 11.1V - So why use a 13V bulb? I want maximum brightness!

Well, I finally found out that the rechargeable Li-Ions pump out 4.2V initially, so 3 * 4.2V = 12.6V - duh.

I was initially thinking, "if the stock chassis holds 4 CR123A's, why don't I just get 4 rechargeables and a new bulb?".

Well, 4 (rechargeable CR123A's) * 4.2 V = 16.8 V = Poof!


The extender comes into play because the 150A (300P) batteries are 1-1/2 times the length of a regular CR123A, so 3 of them are equal to 4-1/2 CR123A batteries. Thus you need that little bit more to squeeze in the last battery. 

You experienced guys probably know all of this but I thought I'd post it for the next person that rolls in here like I did and save everyone the trouble.


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## softfeel (Dec 7, 2006)

The M90 rechargeable flashlight is rated 135 lumens at wolf-eyes.com and 200 lumens at pts-flashlights.com. Which one is correct?

Why does pts-flashlights.com not ship rechargeable flashlights outside of the United states?

I'm thinking of buying an m90 together with a 6m or maybe an m90-13v together with an 9a. So that I will only have to use one kind of batteries (18500 or 18650). Which combo would you guys prefer? I'm going to use them for occations when my Fenixes are not powerful enough.


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## vortechs (Dec 9, 2006)

softfeel said:


> The M90 rechargeable flashlight is rated 135 lumens at wolf-eyes.com and 200 lumens at pts-flashlights.com. Which one is correct?


The 200 lumens is probably bulb lumens and the 135 lumens is probably total out the front lumens (after subtracting for losses in the reflector and front lens). 



softfeel said:


> Why does pts-flashlights.com not ship rechargeable flashlights outside of the United states?


I'm not sure, but you can always order the flashlight without the Li-Ion rechargeable batteries and order some batteries from CPF member AW. 



softfeel said:


> I'm thinking of buying an m90 together with a 6m or maybe an m90-13v together with an 9a. So that I will only have to use one kind of batteries (18500 or 18650). Which combo would you guys prefer? I'm going to use them for occations when my Fenixes are not powerful enough.


I would get the M90-13V and 9A. You may want to consider getting the turbo bezel (9D) so you can use a D36 lamp in both.

You could also wait until the 2-cell size extension for the M90-13V is available (for using 3x 18650 cells).


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## softfeel (Dec 10, 2006)

Thank you for your replies, vortechs.

After sending a PM to [email protected] I learned that "Lithium batteries are considered a hazardous materiel and restricted by most countries."

I will order some Li-Ions and charger from AW instead.

Since I recently purchased some other flashlights I'm only going to buy the M90 for now and maybe some other Wolf-Eyes later.


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## tsask (Dec 10, 2006)

my M90 is an outstanding light. it survived a 1 .5 meter drop onto a concrete sidewalk. the rechargable aspect is very user friendly. it charges from the endcap.

Mike at Pacific tactical is a good guy. Like other quality vendors here, he cares about his biz. the Wolf Eyes lights are NOT cheap knock offs. they are an outstanding value!


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## Johan (Dec 10, 2006)

I just purchased an M90x and the 13V rechargeable kit. Hopefully I should have it soon!


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