# Lightpipe 250W HID



## dudemar (May 2, 2011)

Was searching eBay to find my beloved Eznite when I came across something called the Lightpipe:

http://www.lightpipeflashlight.com

You can choose from the following wattages: 35, 50, 70, 100, 150 and 250. Some models have the option of an extended battery. Looks decent, but $100 for a 50W light sounds too good to be true... and we all know what that means. Heck $425 for a 250W HID is a bit unbelievable.

I am willing to give this light the benefit of the doubt. It doesn't give many details, like where it's made, what kind of collimator, etc. I contacted the seller and I'll post what he says here.


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## Icarus1 (May 2, 2011)

Hmmm... the site says they are made from PVC pipe. I wonder how durable they are.


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## dudemar (May 2, 2011)

lol yeah PVC is not exactly known for its strength.


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## onetrickpony (May 2, 2011)

dudemar said:


> lol yeah PVC is not exactly known for its strength.


 
Yeah, but if it doesn't work well as a flashlight, you could always use it for a quick bathtub drain repair in a pinch....


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## Slartibartfast (May 2, 2011)

These flashlights look like they are a piece of duct tape away from being made at Possum Lodge.....


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## dudemar (May 2, 2011)

My primary concern is the plastic melting, seemed to work ok in this incan mod:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?52744-H-amp-M-Contest-Class-2-Entry-The-LightPipe




Slartibartfast said:


> These flashlights look like they are a piece of duct tape away from being made at Possum Lodge.....


 
Looks don't tell everything... you never know!


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## Slartibartfast (May 2, 2011)

Too true! I comment only on the appearance. They maybe absolute beasts.


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## 2100 (May 2, 2011)

PVC begins to soften at what > 70 deg C? The ballast will get quite hot as well. But I guess for 10-15 mins use it should be alright.


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## dudemar (May 2, 2011)

Turns out the body for the 20,000 lumen "brightest flashlight in the world" on YouTube uses a common drain pipe in Germany, and drain pipes are commonly made from PVC.

Not as far-fetched as one thinks.


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## magicmanchris (May 2, 2011)

Interesting product, seems prices are reasonable and guts could be swapped out into other available materials if desired. I might order the 50W to review before going for the 250W.


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## onetrickpony (May 2, 2011)

Why don't you just order the guts and skip the bogus bodywork?

EDIT: I do appreciate their honesty, their website clearly states what the bodies are made out of. But, seriously? I can see making your own light out of parts like these, but to sell them?

There is a good likelihood that the bulbs and ballasts are nothing but what you yourself could find on ebay for much less, then just go buy the pvc from home depot or lowe's or whatever and build it yourself.


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## dudemar (May 3, 2011)

onetrickpony said:


> Why don't you just order the guts and skip the bogus bodywork?
> 
> EDIT: I do appreciate their honesty, their website clearly states what the bodies are made out of. But, seriously? I can see making your own light out of parts like these, but to sell them?
> 
> There is a good likelihood that the bulbs and ballasts are nothing but what you yourself could find on ebay for much less, then just go buy the pvc from home depot or lowe's or whatever and build it yourself.



While you are probably right, it's hard to say because no one here on CPF has actually handled the light (much less heard of it).


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## onetrickpony (May 3, 2011)

dudemar said:


> While you are probably right, it's hard to say because no one here on CPF has actually handled the light (much less heard of it).


 
That's kind of my point, I really want for these guys to be making a great product in so-so packaging, but I want anyone that is interested in buying one to be careful not to waste their money.

I'm just thinking that the potential market for these lights is someone that would really like/need a powerful hid spotlight, but can't afford a polarion. If they're like me, 75 bucks is a lot of money for something that doesn't have a proven track record.

That said, it could be a great deal, and I don't pretend to have experience with the lights. I just doubt that the internals are all that great when the externals are typically used to carry human waste. There, I said it.


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## Patriot (May 3, 2011)

Looks kinda neat given the specifications. I do sort of hope someone tries one out. Who knows, might be a sleeper!


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## dudemar (May 3, 2011)

I'm kinda on the border of pulling the trigger...

Just had a root canal done, set me back $1400. Still need the build-up and crown, so I have to wait until that's all done. The other thing holding me back is the return policy, otherwise I'm gonna be out 425 bucks on the 250W. 

Maybe I should try out the 50W first so the loss isn't so big.

Another question: how the heck do you charge it??? There's no description or pics on how it's done.


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## JulianP (May 3, 2011)

After the 70W Lightpipe, there are no more pictures. There are no pictures of chargers, no beamshots, no reviews etc. The lights are made by "Epsilon Industries". I recall Epsilons from the Aldous Huxley novel (and movie) "Brave New World". I would not like them to build me an HID.

On the positive side, they use PayPal and therefore one could always lodge a dispute if the item is advertised incorrectly. Secondly, it gives a US address (Maryland). This will hopefully give additional consumer protection. And about mixing PVC with a 250W HID...will it go  ??


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## Patriot (May 3, 2011)

I noticed in the FAQ section that the 150W and 250W models are Metal Halide.


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## netprince (May 3, 2011)

Has anyone else tried to email them? I sent them a link to this thread, perhaps they will fill us in on some information. 

There is just one picture BTW, they are just showing the same picture for each model. Really not much effort was put into the website. Perhaps its just too new.


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## forexer (May 3, 2011)

Sent them an email few moments ago asking questions about charging, reflector and shipping... might consider getting one to play since they're fairly cheap. PVC for the lower wattage lights should fair well. For the higher power ones they need active cooling and lots of air vents to assist in cooling. Noticed the MH lights are substantially pricier than the Xenon HID ones... I think they are claiming input watts to the ballasts, not output watts. We'll see, very interesting so far


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## smokelaw1 (May 3, 2011)

Seriously considering the 70 W. I think that might be the "sweet spot" for bang-for-buck here. Depending on what we hear back here on charging, etc, I might agree to be the test subject.


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## dudemar (May 3, 2011)

Received an email reply:


-Where is it manufactured?​Assembled in USA from imported and domestic components

-What kind of reflector does it utilize to collimate light?​It uses a PAR lamp consisting of steel reflector and glass lens.

-Is the reflector stippled (orange peel) or smooth, and with that is
the beam diffuse or more oriented for throw?​The 250W model is available in fluted, stippled or clear lenses corresponding to wide flood, medium flood, and spot configurations

-Do you have any photographs of the light being projected outdoors
(beamshots), or comparisons to other HID lights of its class?​We are working on adding additional content to the website and will likely add beamshots and photometric data shortly.




...so again it doesn't sound half bad. The charging and cooling questions didn't dawn on me until after I sent the email, but I'm sure we'll hear something very soon.




smokelaw1 said:


> Seriously considering the 70 W. I think that might be the "sweet spot" for bang-for-buck here. Depending on what we hear back here on charging, etc, I might agree to be the test subject.


 
Sounds good. If yours turns out ok and I have enough money left over, I might shoot for the 250W.


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## BVH (May 3, 2011)

Sent an email yesterday but no answer. Guess you're lucky to have got one.


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## Patriot (May 3, 2011)

netprince said:


> There is just one picture BTW, they are just showing the same picture for each model. Really not much effort was put into the website. Perhaps its just too new.


 

This sort of thing always causes me to raise a brow since it makes it seem as though they don't have the marketing wherewithal or technical ability to post a few pictures of each model. It's nice however that they answered all of Dudemar's questions and hopefully they'll catch up with BVH's questions soon, as I know he will ask some good ones as well.

I agree with Smokelaw that the 70W version might just be the sweet spot of value and performance, at least in a trial sense. If it's a truly squared away product the the 250W would seem like a bargain as well. I think it's worth pointing out that we don't have many 70W options in the HID world. Currently it's either an ebay, generic club, about half a meter long or the Ti Innovations L70 at $900+. If we can duplicate its performance for say, 1/3 the price, that would be quite a benchmark. 

If Lightpipe is watching this thread, it sure would be nice to see some additional photos sooner, rather than later. Thanks!


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## magicmanchris (May 3, 2011)

Received two replys today concerning my questions with fast response. 35W - 100W models are available now. The 150/250W should be ready in about a week so I been informed. I asked if the higher output units use any cooling fans or what is used to prevent overheating/melting issues, this was the response: 

_"The 150W and 250W models do not require active cooling...based on the 30 minute run time for the 250W model we have not run into any heat related problems for the lamp housing. Because the lamp is thermally insulated from the ballast and battery pack and the lamp has a large internal cavity heat dissipation inside the unit is even less of an issue"_

I also asked what data they could offer concerning what should be expected from the 150/250W HID's in regards to light output distanceand beam floody / spot or /combination; ....and the response received:

_"The 150W and 250W models are available in wide flood, medium flood, and spot beam patterns - we hope to be able to add photometric data to the website shortly."_ 

Hope this feilds some of the Q & A's that some of us here would want to know. I will probably just go for the 250W and not mess around with the entry level units.


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## magicmanchris (May 3, 2011)

BTW, I emailed them concerning what method of battery charging is used? Will report their response once reply is received.


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## dudemar (May 3, 2011)

Thanks for the update magicmanchris, great to know. I'm curious to know exactly how efficient the heat dissipation will be.



magicmanchris said:


> BTW, I emailed them concerning what method of battery charging is used? Will report their response once reply is received.


 
If I had to guess there's some kind of charging port in the back of the light. Looks like there's some kind of space there.


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## JulianP (May 3, 2011)

magicmanchris said:


> Because the lamp is thermally insulated from the ballast and battery pack and the lamp has a large internal cavity heat dissipation inside the unit is even less of an issue"[/I]


If the lamp is isolated from the ballast and battery, all the heat must escape out the front of the pipe. PVC is a pretty good insulator, so it won't dissipate heat. I am so looking forward to a review...


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## dudemar (May 3, 2011)

I was thinking the same thing. It was a big "huh?" moment when I read the explanation for heat dissipation.


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## forexer (May 3, 2011)

Q) How is the battery charged? Is there a built in charging port and a charger in the packages? How does the process work? Any indicators to see the status of the charge (like led lights to indicate batter level ect...)

The battery is charged via a standard charger (similar to a laptop battery charger) which plugs into mains power. The unit is charged by unscrewing the rear access cover and plugging the charger directly into the battery. There is an indicator to show status of charge.

Q) What is the material of the reflector? Aluminum or plastic because plastic cannot be used in HID flashlights.

The reflector is of steel construction.

Q) What kind of ballast are you using for the xenon and MH models?

Xenon Models use standard automotive HID ballasts with Hot Restrike capability - MH models use a standard restrike metal halide ballast.

Q) Where do you ship to?

Worldwide.


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## forexer (May 3, 2011)

Does the package include the charger? Going to purchase the 70W tonight


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## onetrickpony (May 3, 2011)

Ok, I guess I'm the village skeptic here. Can't wait to see how these turn out, I'm actually getting really interested.

Kudos to those willing to take the chance. I'm hoping whoever gets one does a solid review with pics of the internals and beamshots and their impressions, if they're good the company scores more business, if they suck, they know where they need to improve.

BTW, I'm thinking anyone who wants to sell a light should be on this site. Hey netprince, good idea giving them a link to this thread, hopefully they look at it.


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## petersmith6 (May 4, 2011)

250 watt Hid/ halide...so how how long dose it take to become a 250 watt pool of PVC gooooo. 

made in america..melted in america


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## 2100 (May 4, 2011)

Well, the manufacturer said that it would work for 30 min burns, so i guess it will. 

This is not that much different from the ABS plastic carry-handle type of HID lanterns. The heat gets kept in and the heatsink is via the front ie glass. 55W HID is very manageable with a 6" glass front. The ballast does get hot but does not get that hot to melt PVC. It should be ok for 100W. 

What I am worried is the 250W model. PVC is a good insulator but still would get hot. The battery would get hot as well but that's manageable. Dimensions are 6.75 front and a 15" tube. 
Reefers would be familiar with 250W HQI, MH ballasts, and the heat generated along with it at that "point source". But then, the manufacturer claims in tests that is ok. 

Ebay 65W 3" reflector with Li-ion is about $105. So this is actually not too bad with a 4" reflector! 
100W HID shd have a smaller arc gap than the 250W MH. Same reflector. But then closer range it would be mighty impressive. 

I switched on all my HIDs, about 250W as well. S*** crazy even thought it does not throw as well as a high powered 445 or 532. 

Interested!


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## 2100 (May 4, 2011)

100W Lightpipe - usd225. 6" reflector.
70W lightpipe has a 4" reflector? 

Lets do it this way. 6" host, usd50. 12-24V variable input 100W HID kit (pair), usd103 which is the cheapest on aliexpress that I can find. Li-ion Battery, usd70. Charger usd30. Total excld shipping = 253. But you do get another 100W ballast and bulb as spare, and a SLA battery for emergency.


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## forexer (May 4, 2011)

To end the speculation i've purchased a 70 watt. Lets see how it goes


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## 2100 (May 4, 2011)

Thanks....do report on the batt pack size. One would want to change it after 3 years or so, presumably with RC batt packs or from the manufacturer if its still around. 

That's also the good thing about Ebay generic HIDs, they have been around for quite a while and parts are widely available (plus cheap!), that also means upgradable from 35->50->65W.


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## 2100 (May 4, 2011)

400W/250W HQI, and the Philips CDM-T ceramic metal halide (I have the 20 and 35W versions). Note the startup/warmup times. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDGkgOyKDpU

Have to ask if its the HQI, as they have quite long arc gaps.


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## magicmanchris (May 4, 2011)

This is today's reply on the procedure to charge the battery:

_"The battery is recharged by removing the rear access cover and plugging the included charger directly into the battery pack"_

Looks like forexer will receive his 70W before I get the 250W. I'm excited to view his upcoming report on the purchase.


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## Patriot (May 5, 2011)

forexer said:


> To end the speculation i've purchased a 70 watt. Lets see how it goes


 

Thanks forexer! Nice of you to check it out. I'll look forward to your thoughts and pictures!


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## forexer (May 5, 2011)

No problem guys, i will update all of you when the light arrives  Their customer service has been prompt so far.


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## 2100 (May 5, 2011)

Looks like we are all set.


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## smokelaw1 (May 5, 2011)

HeeHee...shipping notice recieved. Looks like we'll have two guys checking out the 70W


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## forexer (May 5, 2011)

smokelaw1 said:


> HeeHee...shipping notice recieved. Looks like we'll have two guys checking out the 70W


 When did you receive the shipping notice? I haven't received any notice yet. I live in Asia so shipping might be a while You'll most probably review it first.


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## smokelaw1 (May 5, 2011)

Received it this morning. Being in Asia, they likely used a different service. I got the notice direct from the USPS. As for being first to review it, I have a very busy schedule in the coming weeks, as well as a very young (3 weeks) old daughter who makes evening hobby time pretty limited. I'll do my best, though!!!


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## smokelaw1 (May 9, 2011)

Package is out for delivery today! Assuming I get home at a decent hour tonight (tough assumption for me these days), I'll have time to charge it up and maybe even get some beamshots. Probably not the 500 foot shots in the woods, but maybe 200 feet down the driveway shots. If I can figure out the DSLR manual settings, I might even be able to get some decent and useful comparison shots. Knowing my camera/photo abilities, though, I wouldn't hold your breath.


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## 2100 (May 9, 2011)

smokelaw1 said:


> Package is out for delivery today! Assuming I get home at a decent hour tonight (tough assumption for me these days), I'll have time to charge it up and maybe even get some beamshots. Probably not the 500 foot shots in the woods, but maybe 200 feet down the driveway shots. If I can figure out the DSLR manual settings, I might even be able to get some decent and useful comparison shots. Knowing my camera/photo abilities, though, I wouldn't hold your breath.



Use manual, i can guide you through. Just vary the aperture and shutter speed (the 2 dials on the cam), and rely on the LCD. You'd want a pretty dark image (ie underexposed) if doing comparison and to squeeze out any useful shots. 200ft is cool and pretty useful!


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## smokelaw1 (May 9, 2011)

2100 said:


> Use manual, i can guide you through. Just vary the aperture and shutter speed (the 2 dials on the cam), and rely on the LCD. You'd want a pretty dark image (ie underexposed) if doing comparison and to squeeze out any useful shots. 200ft is cool and pretty useful!



Thanks. I have no idea how to adjust any of those two items. I don't even know if there are two dials on the camera. I've used full auto and "sport/action" modes. That's about it. 
If I can figure it out (I'll have some time while it's charging, assuming the two girls get to bed easily!), what should the values/settings be approximately?


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## 2100 (May 9, 2011)

You using Canon/Sony/Nikon dSLR?

Yuo can get the ISO to the highest, ISO 1600 is fine. Then 1/25s, f4.5....try not to zoom too much, zoom to about 35-50mm is fine. I think you are using the lens which "came together with the camera". 

Interesting new specs and pics. The 100W needs the bigger 6.75" body but gets the 4.5" reflector. So the front opening is big but you see supports for the relatively small 4.5" lens. These are all auto HID, so what you get is the 4" Mozo kinda performance, modded or otherwise.
150W gets a 5.75" reflector. 
250W gets a 7" reflector. 

The more powerful MH bulbs are probably with a 7mm arc gap and above, maybe its slightly smaller with the 150W. So I'd hazard a guess that the hotspot/throw would be around the 4" Mozo ballpark. Say the 250W has 7 x 4-inch Mozos shining at the same spot.


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## Beatkeeper120 (May 9, 2011)

smokelaw1 said:


> Package is out for delivery today! Assuming I get home at a decent hour tonight (tough assumption for me these days), I'll have time to charge it up and maybe even get some beamshots. Probably not the 500 foot shots in the woods, but maybe 200 feet down the driveway shots. If I can figure out the DSLR manual settings, I might even be able to get some decent and useful comparison shots. Knowing my camera/photo abilities, though, I wouldn't hold your breath.


 
Looking forward to your review, If all is up to par I'm definitely pulling the trigger tonight.


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## smokelaw1 (May 9, 2011)

Got an e-mail from them on a few items. 1) There is no manual yet. I imagie I'll be able to figure it out. 
2) The surface isn't terribly durable until cured (and we'll see once it is cured), which takes approx 7 days fromthe time they shipped the light. I don't know if they shipped pre-cure to me because I expressed being anxious to get it, or what, but we'll see what it's like. 
3) The 70 watt unit runs on two batteries, which must be charged seperately, as they do not have a y-cord for the charger yet. Packs are wired parallel, so hopefully no balancing issues. 

Look forward to giving this thing a shot and letting you all know how it goes!


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## smokelaw1 (May 9, 2011)

OK, light is here and charging. So far seems exactly as expected. Two batteries, a balast and a lamp assembly in a painted PVC tube with a handle. Have battery #1 plugged in for an hour and a half already, which seems odd, as they told me that it shipped with a full charge....hmmmm....
THen I'll cahrge the other side and head outside. Can't figure out how to change the 1/25s (exposure?) and the fXX we'll see how pics come out. I'll compare to no-name 24W HID, Oveready M50, Malkoff M61 (why bother!) and a Varapower V2000.


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## Sway (May 9, 2011)

Cool I’m looking forward to your thoughts and beam shots if they turn out, a few pic’s of the light its self would be nice since their web page leaves a little to be desired...if it’s not too much trouble 



Later
Kelly


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## JulianP (May 9, 2011)

I am also looking forward to pictures of the whole thing, battery, reflectors etc...Smokelaw1, Lightpipe should give you a rebate for the review.


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## Sway (May 9, 2011)

As for charging the packs if you have a multimeter use it to check the voltage and try to get them close as possible.


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## MikeAusC (May 9, 2011)

dudemar said:


> lol yeah PVC is not exactly known for its strength.



I tried breaking a piece of 90mm Stormwwater pipe (thinner than Sewer pipe) by hackking at it with a spade - unsuccesful !

My only concern is about heat removal - PVC is an insulator.

I'm building some high-powered LED lights using PVC plumbing fittings - but they will be air-cooled, so not needing to pass any heat through the PVC.


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## smokelaw1 (May 9, 2011)

Still charging side #1. We may have to wait for tomorrow for review.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## Sway (May 9, 2011)

Anticipation


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## dudemar (May 10, 2011)

lol Love the blue man group pic! Can't wait 'til beamshots/pics are up!!!!


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## Patriot (May 10, 2011)

JulianP said:


> I am also looking forward to pictures of the whole thing, battery, reflectors etc...


 

Ditto!


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## ma_sha1 (May 10, 2011)

Found a Picture, ebay search lightpipe HID


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## smokelaw1 (May 10, 2011)

Ok, so I can't upload pics from tapatalk (says its been disabled) but I have some pics I'll try to get up once I'm at work. First impressions ... this thing is bright. BRIGHT. Nice beam, feels good in the hand...and puts out as many lumens in as nice a beam as I can possibly imagine for 125 bucks. Beamshots came out very very poorly (way too dark, the 70w was the only one that even showed up...dimly.) I'll try again tonight. Given the 2000 and 2500 lumen lights it was up against...I'd guesstimate that 6800 lumens is not far off. Biggest gripe is the VERY slow two sided charging. A y-cord, which they say they are sourcing and sending me, will help with the inconvinience, but not the speed. 
More deatil and pics when time allows.

Short answer....this is a TON of light for the money, and it feels solid. I'm happy.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## 2100 (May 10, 2011)

Smokelaw1, you can use Exposure compensation if it turns out too dark. Just slowly pile on "+". Its in the menus. Can't wait for your beamshots....esp with the 24W HID (Ebay type I suppose) and Varapower V2000.


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## smokelaw1 (May 10, 2011)

When I put the pics on the PC, whatever program opened them had an exposure tab, and I put brightness ALL the way up. The 70W became barely visible at the trees, the Varapower was just a touch visible, mostly forground, same withthe 24W. Still useless. Showed that there is a HUGE brightness difference, but there was no beam to speak of. I'll try again tonight.

Here are some pics of the light, though. Nevermind the drying baby toys. Malkoff MD2 for size comparison.


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## forexer (May 10, 2011)

Please note that international shipping is an extra $45 over the initial $10. They emailed me to tell me to send them funds so then can ship my light out. I'm sending them funds tomorrow. 

Few notes about the pictures smokelaw posted. The "bezel" protruding way to much, this will be a flooder, not a thrower. The bezel interrupting the beam pattern so there'll be lots of spill, maybe too much. I wondered if i could ask them to help me saw off a large portion of the bezel, so i get a better beam, more throw, more OTF lumens. 

The charging thing seems too troublesome, i may ask them to send me a y cord with the light.


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## smokelaw1 (May 10, 2011)

The light does have a good deal of flood, but the throw is quite nice. It is NOT a focused 70W super-thrower (hey, it's a 4" reflector!), but the throw is likely more than sufficient for my purposes, which will hardly (if) ever exceed 500 feet. I look forward to trying it out at my 500 foot testing area, hopefully tonight, and I look forward to sharing the beam shots, it should give you a good idea of beam profile, which I am actually glad is not a pure thrower. 
The charging is a pain, and they tell me as soon as they source the y-cord, they will send me one. I'm going to ask them to share the part # where they bought the charging cord, so I can buy another to charge both batteries at the same time, and then when I get the y-cord, I can leave one charger at the beach house.


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## Patriot (May 10, 2011)

Looks really decent for the price and 70W specification. Yeah, that bezel is quite long and looks like it could lose 25mm of length. I'll looking forward to more!


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## smokelaw1 (May 10, 2011)

A couple more pix, including the worthless beam shots. 70W lightpipe, Varapower 2000, 24w


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## dudemar (May 10, 2011)

Great pics! Nice to see actual close-ups of the light itself and its innards. Could you possibly post a shot of the business end in detail?


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## JulianP (May 10, 2011)

What I like is the sturdy look. It's something you could throw in the back of a truck without worrying too much about scratches or dents.


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## Slartibartfast (May 10, 2011)

Did it really arrive with that mess of wires and electrical tape?


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## 2100 (May 10, 2011)

smokelaw1 said:


> A couple more pix, including the worthless beam shots. 70W lightpipe, Varapower 2000, 24w


 
They still give you decent info. Basically the 4" lightpipe wins and is brighter than a high-end SST-90 light?  

Your cam is 1/125s, f5.6, ISO 1600...."middle zoom" at 40mm (yrs most prob is a stock/kit lens 18-55mm f3.5-5.6). What you need to adjust is the shutter speed only to vary the brightness. If you keep real still, even as a noob, anyone can do 1/60 easily which makes it twice as bright.


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## smokelaw1 (May 10, 2011)

Slartibartfast said:


> Did it really arrive with that mess of wires and electrical tape?


Yes.


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## smokelaw1 (May 10, 2011)

2100 said:


> They still give you decent info. Basically the 4" lightpipe wins and is brighter than a high-end SST-90 light?
> 
> Your cam is 1/125s, f5.6, ISO 1600...."middle zoom" at 40mm (yrs most prob is a stock/kit lens 18-55mm f3.5-5.6). What you need to adjust is the shutter speed only to vary the brightness. If you keep real still, even as a noob, anyone can do 1/60 easily which makes it twice as bright.


 
I have no idea what the vast majority of this means. I bought the camera my brother told me to, and leave it on auto usually. I played with some buttons tongiht, and it stopped working entirely!!!

More beamshots....taken with a point and shoot. I do not know if they are on the same settings. Comparison V2000 to 70W looks acurate. The 24W didn't look this bright....is there some way to tell and adjust them?


V2000:





24W:





70W Lightpipe





Varapower


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## dudemar (May 10, 2011)

From the looks of it the Lightpipe is pretty throwy, nice tight hotspot. As far as spill goes it looks like it's lighting up those bushes on the right pretty well. How far away was the treeline?


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## smokelaw1 (May 10, 2011)

It really didn't feel.THAT throw oriented until I looked at the pictures. Tree line is right around 150 feet from where I was standing. The real test will be at 500...maybe tomorrow, might be too late to head over there now.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## dudemar (May 10, 2011)

Yeah it is getting late in your neck of the woods, but if you can head out there tonight you would make a lot of CPFers VERY happy... 

If not it's ok, I can wait until tomorrow.


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## smokelaw1 (May 10, 2011)

LOL...Iwould have...but a screaming one month old plus wife with 103 fever equals changed locks if I head off to the woods for long distance beamshotts!! On the plus side...I think I figured out the good camera...so assuming the stars align and I get out tomorrow night...I should be able to get good shots!! 

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## forexer (May 10, 2011)

Nicely done! How long have you ran the light already? Does the head get hot? Any melting adhesive or plastic or fumes/smells? The beam profile is good, i've asked them to help me trim the bezel so i should get more throw and OTF lumens.


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## chanjyj (May 10, 2011)

Looks interesting for sure.


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## 2100 (May 10, 2011)

smokelaw1 said:


> More beamshots....taken with a point and shoot. I do not know if they are on the same settings. Comparison V2000 to 70W looks acurate. The 24W didn't look this bright....is there some way to tell and adjust them?


 
Ok, all 3 pix have the same shutter and aperture settings. The 24W Ebay HID is at ISO3200, Varapower V2000 SST-90 at ISO1600, Lightpipe 70W at ISO1250 (1/3 stop dimmer than the SST-90). I more or less have a very good idea what the lights are doing though, no issue.  

Sheesh the lightpipe is really throwy (your V2000 SST-90 deep reflector is 70mm?), looks like it is quite optimised and its as tight as it can get. The thing is that the Corona is also tight and is relatively bright compared to the central hotspot. Bear in mind digital cams have little dynamic range, so the hotspot vs corona is relatively close. I'd hazard a rough guess that it is in the league of optimised 6" reflector designs like the SM5200 / Yao or Mule HID, just that its a 4.5" reflector version.

I have the higher wattage versions of the 24W, so i can have a relative hotspot compario myself tonight.


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## Beatkeeper120 (May 11, 2011)

The only other experience I have with hid spotlights is my stanley hid which i scrapped after the battery bit the dust. Is the output overrated?


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## spock (May 11, 2011)

this light looks rugged. looked up epsilon on bbb in maryland. they make plastic molding and have an A- rating. they have never had a complaint. guess i will start saving up money.


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## coolmeester (May 11, 2011)

New pics on their site. That bigger enclosure in 100W model (also in 150w and 250w) is HUGE! I think I'm going for 250W and 70W.


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## 2100 (May 11, 2011)

coolmeester said:


> New pics on their site. That bigger enclosure in 100W model (also in 150w and 250w) is HUGE! I think I'm going for 250W and 70W.



That's cool, so when are you ordering? Give a shootout with your Polarion, Trustfire X6 etc!


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## ez78 (May 11, 2011)

Interesting new lights!




forexer said:


> Nicely done! How long have you ran the light already? Does the head get hot? Any melting adhesive or plastic or fumes/smells? The beam profile is good, i've asked them to help me trim the bezel so i should get more throw and OTF lumens.


 
The long bezel will limit the spill but should not have any effect on throw. Any light hitting the plastic would have been travelling in the wrong direction anyways.


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## forexer (May 11, 2011)

ez78 said:


> The long bezel will limit the spill but should not have any effect on throw. Any light hitting the plastic would have been travelling in the wrong direction anyways.


 Yea you make a point but i bet the spill will be much brighter. The light surrounding the hotspot will also be bringer since the light that was marginally blocked by the bezel should travel quite a long way before it is considered spill, i think you get my point lol. Their higher watt models look insane!


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## DM51 (May 11, 2011)

This seems like a pretty good no-nonsense light, and if it proves durable it will be great value for the $$.

What worries me about it has already been mentioned - heat build-up. It would be interesting if someone could use a temperature probe after a few minutes of running it, to see how hot it gets inside, perhaps with corresponding readings from a metal-bodied HID for comparison.


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## 2100 (May 11, 2011)

DM51 said:


> This seems like a pretty good no-nonsense light, and if it proves durable it will be great value for the $$.
> 
> What worries me about it has already been mentioned - heat build-up. It would be interesting if someone could use a temperature probe after a few minutes of running it, to see how hot it gets inside, perhaps with corresponding readings from a metal-bodied HID for comparison.


 
There are already 400W HIDs in slightly bigger ABS hosts, but that's with a fan. I'd guess few mins is a piece of cake even with 250W, 100W have been around for quite a few years in plastic bodies. Can I volunteer to run my 55W 6-incher face down with the glass front insulated with 1-inch thick rag, so that the heat does not escape at all? I can run it for 20 mins, that's really an acid test.  Then you divide by 4. 

ARgh...where's my Fluke IR thermometer!! I only have a probe.


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## ma_sha1 (May 11, 2011)

The Ultimate example of forms follow function - Plumber's Delight, Mario's light Canon


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## smokelaw1 (May 11, 2011)

dudemar said:


> From the looks of it the Lightpipe is pretty throwy, nice tight hotspot. As far as spill goes it looks like it's lighting up those bushes on the right pretty well. How far away was the treeline?


 
I looked again, tree line is closer to 180. 



forexer said:


> Nicely done! How long have you ran the light already? Does the head get hot? Any melting adhesive or plastic or fumes/smells? The beam profile is good, i've asked them to help me trim the bezel so i should get more throw and OTF lumens.


 
I had the light on for maybe 5 minutes. No noticeable heat or evidence thereof. I did NOT, however, feel around the head towards the end of the run. I'm thinking of taking a bit of the bezel myself for the exact same reason. I think it ould open up the corona nicely, even if I just take an inch off. 



coolmeester said:


> New pics on their site. That bigger enclosure in 100W model (also in 150w and 250w) is HUGE! I think I'm going for 250W and 70W.


 
Saw that. I'm thinking of getting one of the bigger ones as well!




ma_sha1 said:


> The Ultimate example of forms follow function - Plumber's Delight, Mario's light Canon


 
Agreed. This isn't my prettiest light (understatement), but man, for the price, I am QUITE pleased with the performance. I am really excited to get it out to the field tonight, especially now that I've figured out (I think) the camera. I might even head down the road a bit to a farm where I could get 1000+ foot shots.


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## 2100 (May 11, 2011)

I did some tests with my 55W SM5200 (not lightpipe). With the front glass covered and temp probe in the front cavity just behind the reflector, and the whole unit facing down on the floor with a big rag insulating the whole front cavity so that no heat can get out, I ran a 10 min run. 
The cavity hit 50 deg C. I cut the test as I deduce that the ballast would be really hot (it is, too hot to touch even for 0.5s). Both the ballast and bulb are heating up the air inside, no hot air can get out not even much radiation. My ambient temp is 30 deg C (yep its really hot here even at night). This is really an acid test.
I think with 250W with a 6.75" front and with the help of IR radiation through the front, it should be a piece of cake for < 20 mins. It would take quite long to heat saturate for the inside cavity till the PVC softens.


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## Slartibartfast (May 11, 2011)

Wow, it might not look that slick but that thing performs! Very impressive.
Definitely a sleeper. I look forward to someone posting 250w beamshots.


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## dudemar (May 11, 2011)

That's very encouraging news 2100. I am looking forward to picking up the 250W.




DM51 said:


> This seems like a pretty good no-nonsense light, and if it proves durable it will be great value for the $$.
> 
> What worries me about it has already been mentioned - heat build-up. It would be interesting if someone could use a temperature probe after a few minutes of running it, to see how hot it gets inside, perhaps with corresponding readings from a metal-bodied HID for comparison.



Great point. If Lightpipe can come up with a swappable battery option that would be awesome. The 250W version takes 4-8 hours to charge for 30 min of runtime. Not sure I can wait that long in-between charges for 30 min of light, but then again it's 18K lumens...


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## smokelaw1 (May 11, 2011)

I haven't taken the batteries out (yet), but it looks like removing them would be pretty simple. I would love to be able to have a spare set charged!


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## Beatkeeper120 (May 12, 2011)

Just purchased a 70 watt anthracite, let's see how this goes. Anyone purchased the 100 watt or higher version? Almost double the price when you go from 70 watts to 100.


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## smokelaw1 (May 12, 2011)

Sorry guys, no longer beamshots last night. Let the night get away from me again. Maybe tonight? I'm bringing my camera and the lights when I go to work out, and I'll try to stop by a good spot for beamshots.


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## netprince (May 12, 2011)

Beatkeeper120 said:


> Just purchased a 70 watt anthracite, let's see how this goes. Anyone purchased the 100 watt or higher version? Almost double the price when you go from 70 watts to 100.


 
I ordered the same one as well. Looks like a good light. Cant wait for shipping confirmation...


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## forexer (May 12, 2011)

They should pay CPF some loyalties. I bet their sales have picked up since this thread started lol


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## 2100 (May 12, 2011)

Anybody purchased the 250W? I'm putting my laser purchases on hold coz of these!


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## Sway (May 12, 2011)

Looks like it needs some rubber feet on the bottom to keep it handle up when you set it down, hardware store should have something :thinking:


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## smokelaw1 (May 12, 2011)

Sway said:


> Looks like it needs some rubber feet on the bottom to keep it handle up when you set it down, hardware store should have something :thinking:



LOL...already a step ahead of you! Should ahve some pics of the solution this weekend. it won't the already utility-first looks of the light any favors, but will enable it to stand up!


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## smokelaw1 (May 12, 2011)

Ok...its official. I suck HARD at beamshots. Good news..70w easily lights up the tree line at 565 feet. Bad news...photographic evidence is well...very bad. Ill try to get them uploaded tonight.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Edit:
VaraPower2000







24W ebay light





70W


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## 2100 (May 16, 2011)

I'm likely to pull the trigger for the 250W one. They say they are out of 250W models,* anybody purchased a unit here*? magicmanchris?

Shucks....i think my 445nm (1.7A) is going to be dead soon. Going for a survival laser at $139 + $10 copper heatsink. I am so overspent this month. And I am still on the lookout for a high-powered LED light....most probably with the Lightpipe I may not want it, hopefully that'd quench my thirst for say...SR90, SR92, TK70 or customs.


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## 2100 (May 16, 2011)

The 250W model uses a 7" steel reflector and is available in several beam angles: wide flood, medium flood, spot, and narrow spot. The first three employ arc tubes having long arc gaps (>20mm) whereas the 4th narrow spot pattern employs an arc tube having a 5 mm arc gap. Regarding the housing size the main portion of the housing is 6.75 inch diameter but the section holding the lamp including the shroud measures 8.5" diameter. Let me know if you have any other questions.

The minimum run time achieved in testing was 30 minutes, however there were longer runs which were achieved up to 45 minutes - the design of the battery pack is sufficiently robust to drive the lamp without any problems.
----------------------
Regarding the bigger gap bulb...although the design of the LP-250NS narrow spot model does allow for changing out the bulb element, and we can supply a bulb with 11 mm arc gap, you will not see that much of a difference in the beam angle due to the fact that the arc tube is configured axially and has nearly the same LCL as the 5mm element. We may in the future be able to offer replacement bulb elements with varying LCLs to adjust beam angle but at this point we have not tested this method with the LP-250NS's reflector as a means of adjusting the beam angle. The flood models have transversely mounted long arc bulbs and can thus achieve large beam angles in their native design.

PS: If you would like to place the order, because we do not have the website configured to factor in International shipping costs yet the easiest method would be to send payment via Paypal to xxxxxx@xxxxxxl.com and specify your desired color etc in the Paypal notes...if you can get the order in today we should be able to get a unit shipped out to you by next week.


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## 2100 (May 16, 2011)

One coming up via USPS Express International

These are the hardwork of ez78. The 400W Thor has a 7" reflector and a 400W with 7mm gap. The hotspot looks to be of the same intensity as the 75W Supernova shortarc. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...5W-HID-400W-HID-Thor-Supernova-DEFT-Tiablo-A9

If it really is true 250W input, 5mm gap, 7" reflector of at least Thor quality (which isn't much anyway), we should have a blast. 

Not sure if its true 18000 lumens then with this 250W 4300K bulb, but we take 18000 * 0.85 = 15300 lumens which is a conservative fig, this equals 15000/5 = *3000 lumens / mm.*

200W MH with 5mm gap on 7" reflector
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?218655-PX200-HID-.-.-.-Beamshots-Added

7" is also the diameter of PAR56 sealed cans.

Ma_sha's work : 11000 lumens 4mm gap 120W
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?310388-A-new-find-120W-Shorter-Arc-HID-Kit

-----------------------------
_They don't say HID but the lamp spec: *11000 lumens @ 120W *make me believe it's Xenon HID, as xenon short-arc _

_lamp has much lower lumen efficiency. _

_http://72.167.20.227/product.php?id_product=86_

_11000 lumen on 4mm arc gap =* 2750 lumens/mm arc gap*_



_*As a reference:*_

_Xenon short arc would be in the 3000-4000 lumen range for 120W. 0.9mm gap =*3300-4400 lumen/mm gap*_

_The UHP/P-VIP high pressure mercury short arc is ~7000 lumens for 120W. 1mm gap =*7000 lumens/mm gap *_


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## 2100 (May 17, 2011)

This is just a cursory search...but looks like there are such bulbs with 5mm gap! (initially I though there isn't any). There are 2.5kW HMI with a 8mm gap with 240000 lumens, for those city advertisement lights, Las Vegas style etc. 
Mods pls don't mind me posting this .... http://www.aliexpress.com/product-gs/247211219-MSD250-2-metal-halide-lamp-wholesalers.html


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## ez78 (May 17, 2011)

The 5 mm arc gap would be very good news. I can also tell that the sealed par64 metal halide lamp in my 400 watter does not have very good quality reflector. The chrome surface in the original Thor reflector was better actually. The par64 is slightly larger though. About 8" outer diameter and 7.5" effective reflector surface diameter. I wonder what were the reflector diameter and arc gap in the 300W locator hid BVH has.. Anyways this 250W device has got potential. I hope you get your shipment soon.


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## 2100 (May 17, 2011)

Yeah man, but I don't know what kind of reflector are they using, perhaps its not those "sealed cans" of PAR56 type. Anyway I missed out one likely candidate, those stage lighting/advertisement spot lighting stuff. On alibaba/express you get them 1-2k usd, everything included + shipping "FOC".


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## BVH (May 17, 2011)

The Locator's arc gap is 4.5 mm. It's definitely not a short arc. Startup is very slow and very purple until warm - maybe 10 seconds. Reflector is a hair under 5".


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## ez78 (May 18, 2011)

Thanks for the specs BVH! That gives some perspective. 

Let's hope for a nice quality reflector.


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## Beatkeeper120 (May 18, 2011)

Lightpipe doesn't like answering that phone number on their site all too much lol


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## 2100 (May 19, 2011)

I think emailing them is better. Technical stuff gets solved better/faster this way.


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## Beatkeeper120 (May 19, 2011)

Yea I need to in touch with them still haven't gotten any kind of order confirmation or shipping notice yet.


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## Helmut.G (May 19, 2011)

is it just me or have they just raised their prices on the website?


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## smokelaw1 (May 19, 2011)

Helmut.G said:


> is it just me or have they just raised their prices on the website?



They sure did! The 70W went from 125 to 175. Big jump!


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## GhostReaction (May 19, 2011)

40% increase in price.


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## 2100 (May 19, 2011)

Yeah, the initial introductory prices were like "crazy". The 250W which i ordered isn't too low in cost but still excellent in value (probably 12V 16AH worth of batt inside, or 24V 8AH etc). Seriously I'd not know how to do a 250W as the sourcing of the inverter parts is pretty difficult not to mention squeezing into a host/pipe nicely.

The 70W is crazy. 55 min burn so that's like 7AH worth of Li-ion. Say you order a medium sized 35W HID 6" lantern with *SLA *at usd80 shipped, order a 75W slim AC ballast from liexpress which I found to be cheapest at usd50 shipped. That's already usd130 and that's no Li-ion. It would be more somewhat more expensive with the 4" Mozo if you need the smaller form factor and the Li-ion run time would be much shorter.


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## 2100 (May 19, 2011)

smokelaw1 said:


> They sure did! The 70W went from 125 to 175. Big jump!


 
250W went from 425 -> 550.


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## BVH (May 19, 2011)

I won't be buying one after those increases. Don't get me wrong, I'm an ultra-strong capitalism proponent and I believe in supply and demand. My guess is they see some fast interest from us here at CPF and are gauging the outside market as being the same. I have higher "light" priorities for my money.


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## Beatkeeper120 (May 19, 2011)

I certainly hope they honor my order for the 70 watt, still no email from them yet.


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## magicmanchris (May 19, 2011)

I've already informed lightpipe that the three units I was about to purchase has been scratched and that many other CPF members will likely follow suit. What could have been a rewarding relationship with us at CPF will quickly sour. It will certainly be more of a challenge for Lightpipe to capture the marketshare without CPF members behind them. To have such a huge price increase across product offerings; just after a company's birth is quite greedy and just foolish. You would think they would like to establish a good customer base first and then build on it from there. Obviously not. Don't they know satisfied customers refer new customers. So bad move on their part. Time to start a cheers and jeers on this.


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## BVH (May 20, 2011)

I don't think this warrants a jeer - it probably does not officially qualify for one under CPFMP rules. We may not like it, but let the market drive what they do.


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## dudemar (May 20, 2011)

I think a Jeer thread would be warranted if Lightpipe doesn't honor prices for purchases made prior to the price jump.

What troubles me most about the price increase is not only the spontaneity, but successive price increases (which will happen). Personally I think it's in bad taste to do it so quickly. That's just plain unfair.

What I think is hilarious is they have zero feedback on eBay. If I had never started this thread, Lightpipe wouldn't have the exposure to sell their lights. I personally feel Lightpipe took advantage of that exposure and are now capitalizing off of it. As BVH stated it's a free market, but this just reeks of greed.:thumbsdow

I was about to buy a light from them but now my purchase is on indefinite hold.:sigh:


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## Helmut.G (May 20, 2011)

well, I too understand them. when they sold no lights at all they had to set the prices to an absolute minimum, probably with extremely low profit margins. like 2100 said the batteries alone are extremely expensive. but now through this thread they have such a sudden increase in demand, they probably have seen way more orders in a short time than they can even build, it's only logical to raise the prices as a reaction. whether they are aware of the fact that this high demand is due to the low prices, who knows?
for example (and only that) if you can only build two lights a day would you rather sell 10 lights with 10$ profit per light or 2 lights with 40$ profit per light?
of course for us this kills some awesome deals, but for them it's probably the only way to survive, even though I think it's not wise to raise the prices so high so suddenly.


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## ma_sha1 (May 20, 2011)

The big Price hike is bad business practice. 
Nothing wrong with increase price a bit, 5 or maybe 10%, but to raise it to a point to "turn off"
potential customers is just poor practice & will probably hurt their sales.


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## smokelaw1 (May 20, 2011)

I'm really sad to hear this, as I think their products at (or close) to the original prices were fantastic values and they could have buit a happy customer base. Then with positive market feedback, could ahve started raising prices. I hope this doesn't kill what could have been a great venture for them. Maybe those price increases were the only way to survive, and the original prices were untenable. In that case, it would ahve been better to just start off at these new prices, or somewhere in between. 

I hope they are able to salvage it all, as I am still very happy with my 70W. Don't knwo if I would ahve bought it with zero feedback at 175 though.


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## Fresh Light (May 20, 2011)

It might not be a bad idea if some one interested in buying one would give them a link to this site, particularly this thread, and suggest a CPF discount like many any other vendors do. I know personally I've marketed by word of mouth some sales, so it is good business. 
Also, I haven't heard what the Li pack is exactly. Is this LiPo or one of the other Li chemistry?


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## JulianP (May 20, 2011)

For something made in a garage, it's looking a little expensive. I enjoyed Lightpipe's efforts anyway, and I might use a PVC pipe for a similar project.


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## Helmut.G (May 20, 2011)

Fresh Light said:


> It might not be a bad idea if some one interested in buying one would give them a link to this site, particularly this thread, and suggest a CPF discount like many any other vendors do. I know personally I've marketed by word of mouth some sales, so it is good business.
> Also, I haven't heard what the Li pack is exactly. Is this LiPo or one of the other Li chemistry?


link was already given by netprince a long time ago. If they received that email and they clicked the link they should be aware of this thread, I suspect a very large part of their sales go to cpf.


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## Beatkeeper120 (May 20, 2011)

I sent an email today hope they send a reply because I'd really like that light opposed to my money back! (at the original price anyway) If all else fails I'll just open a paypal dispute, I just think that a week without any type of notification is a little ridiculous.


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## netprince (May 20, 2011)

FWIW, I emailed them about 24 hours after my order and they did confirm the order and they expected to ship it out this week. 

As far as raising the prices, if they weren't making any money on the lights because of the price of components, and they started seeing an influx of orders, it only makes sense to raise the price. I know from experience it can be miserable spending hours on a build for someone where I'm just going to break even.


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## 2100 (May 21, 2011)

Beatkeeper120 said:


> I sent an email today hope they send a reply because I'd really like that light opposed to my money back! (at the original price anyway) If all else fails I'll just open a paypal dispute, I just think that a week without any type of notification is a little ridiculous.


 
Relax man, you seem to be just scaring yourself. For mine they did tell me end of next week. After that I wanted to buy some extra things and it took them 3 days to reply. Probably they are swamped with orders (plus its a one-man-show).


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## ez78 (May 21, 2011)

2100: By the way do you know the color temperature of the 250W bulb? Or did they let you choose?


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## dudemar (May 21, 2011)

If an _explanation_ of the price hike was given, we wouldn't be so frustrated playing a guessing game as to why.

Perhaps Lightpipe could register here? Or heck even at CPFMP and start a sales thread? Would help his business and us a lot more.


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## 2100 (May 22, 2011)

ez78 said:


> 2100: By the way do you know the color temperature of the 250W bulb? Or did they let you choose?




Oh...that'd be 8500W. I'm cool with the colour temperature, they told me that for that range of metal halide bulbs they are using, 4300K is actually lower in lumens. If you check out the MSD bulbs in aliexpress or other sites, that seems to be the case. 
You can choose, but i'll leave it as it is. An additional bulb would cost me $65 from them if I want to play with the CT.


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## 2100 (May 22, 2011)

This type probably...







*Product Information:*​Manufacturer :Philips Lighting.Application :Entertainment & Effect, Architectural LightingFamily brand Name : MSD 250w/2Manufacture ID/Part No. : M[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]SD 250/2 [/FONT]Cross-Reference : Philips MSD 250W/2Average Life :2000 HoursColor Temperature :6500 KelvinColor Rendering Index :85Luminous Flux :18000 LumensBase Type :GY 9.5 (2-Pin Prefocused)Watts :250 WattsLamp finish :ClearRated Voltage :94 VoltsAmps :3.5 AmpsMax Overall Length :108 mmLight Center Length :55 mmDiameter :22 mmArc Length :5 mmHot Restart :NoClass :C (Gas)Cooling :ConvectionOperating Position :AnyOperating Orientation :UniversalType of Current :AC


Note the NO hot restart. Auto HID is able to hot restart, and actually some light up pretty quickly.


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## Patriot (May 23, 2011)

BVH said:


> I won't be buying one after those increases. Don't get me wrong, I'm an ultra-strong capitalism proponent and I believe in supply and demand. My guess is they see some fast interest from us here at CPF and are gauging the outside market as being the same. I have higher "light" priorities for my money.


 

Agreed, they just lost me as well. I was going for the 250W but I'm out now. The owner / operators at Lightpipe should have extended CPF members a grace period or notice of price increase with a deadline before flipping the 'price switch' overnight. Best of luck to them, they'll need it in this economy.


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## Turps (May 24, 2011)

Are you guys serious. 
Its business, sell at a lose to get some product out there and then bump the price. Happens all the time in small scale fabrications.
Great forum but just cos your a member of CPF doesn't make you all that special.
I still think at that price, they will sell heaps. I am even sure that if the beam shots prove to be good. Half of you that said they can go get stuffed. Will buy.

Now I just want there delivery to hurry up as I wanna see how good they are before I buy.


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## dudemar (May 24, 2011)

Turps said:


> Great forum but just cos your a member of CPF doesn't make you all that special.
> I still think at that price, they will sell heaps.



It's not just unfair to CPFers, it's unfair to everyone. Say you went to a store yesterday and saw the same light. If you walk in today and saw they raised the prices significantly, wouldn't you be disappointed?


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## Patriot (May 25, 2011)

Turps said:


> Great forum but just cos your a member of CPF doesn't make you all that special.
> I still think at that price, they will sell heaps. I am even sure that if the beam shots prove to be good. Half of you that said they can go get stuffed. Will buy.
> Now I just want there delivery to hurry up as I wanna see how good they are before I buy.




Wait a sec, you're baffled by those who had objections / reservations about the price but you're not going to buy one yourself until some non-special members purchase, test and provide feedback for you? Haha...ok.  

In all seriousness, I don't get the impression that anyone here thinks of themselves as "special." I do however suspect that recent CPF purchases have constituted a fair percentage of their sales as of late. Perhaps that's unfounded but it seems that at least a couple of members have pointed the seller to this thread which would eliminate any speculation as to where lightpipe's increase in sales came from. I haven't even counted the number of announced buyers yet but there are a reasonable number who have ordered. I don't fault the seller for being a capitalist but was on schedule to purchase the 250W in three weeks. Given that it's going to cost $100-$200 more now, I'll probably just put that saved $ toward my Alaskan trip instead, regardless of what the beam shots look like. I don't think there's sufficient evidence to suspect that the seller will sell "heaps" of them though in light of the price increase. It's still tough out there and people are yet going easy on the "extras." I think of Cue003's Polarion X1 for sale in the Marketplace, something that we used to expect would sell quickly but isn't getting much attention.


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## 2100 (May 25, 2011)

Truth be told, i am still a little scared that my 250W would not perform as well as it should. Its not a cheap light with shipping included, and shipping halfway round the world with many transit stops in between carries more risk, rough handling etc.
2 of my plastic lanterns had some shipping damage, but nothing too serious that could not be fixed with soldering/super glue.
Actually 2 of the reflectors were poker-marked coz the ballasts came off the ABS mounts. 

It was mentioned to me that the prices are introductory, i took the plunge and 4 days later the prices went up. I guess they just need 1 of the 250W to be out there and they are pretty sure of its performance (it should, if they are reading CPF and all the beamshots etc), the battery will hold out etc. I mean the 70W is already tested with beamshots, results speak for themselves.

500W Inverter (assume startup consumption is high) - usd80 shipped
250W bulb - usd50 shipped
250W ballast - usd90 shipped 
11.1V 16.6AH worth of LiPo juice - usd200 shipped
9" host+reflector - usd80 shipped, Blitz 240 would be much more expensive <- in fact this is what you guys can get in the USA, for me in SG it would be more expensive. I can't do that price no way.
Add in 12V PSU and hobby charger - usd50 shipped.
usd550 with host
usd470 without the host

PVC pipes and stuff, FOC...should you be really good to do up a 8" pipe host with that. 

That's from the financial angle. From the performance angle, if the beam is collimated enough that it can do 3km and reflect off a highly reflective aluminum panel off a skyscraper, then usd550 is even really worth it. Maybe this would trigger guys to do up 575W - 2500W versions. There are 4000W inverters and 2500W bulbs with 8mm arc gap, but the relevant parts cost would be well over 1k.


----------



## JulianP (May 25, 2011)

2100 said:


> Maybe this would trigger guys to do up 575W - 2500W versions. There are 4000W inverters and 2500W bulbs with 8mm arc gap, but the relevant parts cost would be well over 1k.



I think the problem might be the battery pack...for example, if an 18650 Li battery has a rating of 2400mAh and a max discharge of 2C, we would need at least 140 batteries before even calculating the losses from the ballast and inverter- 

Someone please check my calculations -2500W/3.7v = 676A, then divided by 4.8A (2,400mAH x 2). All this would power the light for less than 30 minutes.

And... There might even be a risk of explosion. A better solution might be to forget the battery pack and the inverter. Just connect it to a small Honda generator.:naughty:


----------



## 2100 (May 25, 2011)

JulianP said:


> I think the problem might be the battery pack...for example, if an 18650 Li battery has a rating of 2400mAh and a max discharge of 2C, we would need at least 140 batteries before even calculating the losses from the ballast and inverter-
> 
> Someone please check my calculations -2500W/3.7v = 676A, then divided by 4.8A (2,400mAH x 2). All this would power the light for less than 30 minutes.
> 
> And... There might even be a risk of explosion. A better solution might be to forget the battery pack and the inverter. Just connect it to a small Honda generator.:naughty:


 
Yep, definitely....much easier and less costly. Or just plug it directly to the AC. Actually don't have to DIY already, those few kW stainless steel 1-head MH searchlights can be had for about 1k + shipping. My apartment actually has 240V 40A service, but its not a house with a garden so no luck here.


----------



## netprince (May 25, 2011)

Just got my shipping confirmation, crossing my fingers for delivery on Friday...


----------



## dudemar (May 28, 2011)

Did you get your light netprince?

I noticed they also raised the price of S+H to $45. IIRC it used to be $25.:thumbsdow


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## 2100 (May 28, 2011)

Did it go up? I see that for domestic its still the same.....and I checked out for your local Priority Mail, the quoted prices are very close to actual USPS prices (so no profits here). 
Its not going to be easy shipping such a heavy light, they even need to pack the insides with peanuts so as to 100% absolutely rule out any movement of batts/ballast/whatever inverter box inside (which already is quite a tight fit). But you cannot rule out accidents, as I already have 2 commercial HID lanterns with slightly poker-marked reflectors as the ballast broke free from the ABS support. So I am sure there is additional effort there.


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## dudemar (May 29, 2011)

I think the key word(s) in my last post were If I Remember Correctly (IIRC). On Lightpipe's eBay auction listing standard S+H is $45 at the moment, but I could've sworn it _was_ a bit lower.

Not trying to start a rumor, just a simple observation.

*EDIT:* Just looked up the Google cache for the auction from 5/15/11 and the S+H did in fact go up from $10 to $45.

Their base model (35W) has since gone up $25, so with S+H up $35 they gain $60 on top of the original price.


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## 2100 (May 29, 2011)

I see, haha...for quite a number of identical stores having Ebay presence, their Ebay stores are always more expensive (think some charges or something). The direct storefront is still the original shipping price (also going through paypal). So not too bad.


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## dudemar (May 29, 2011)

Yeah that is weird. Through their website the 35W S+H is $10 and the 250W is $25. I guess order through their website only?


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## netprince (May 30, 2011)

dudemar said:


> Did you get your light netprince?
> 
> I noticed they also raised the price of S+H to $45. IIRC it used to be $25.:thumbsdow


 

No, it must not have made it to my local post office in time for delivery on sat either, I suppose tomorrow...

Will try to get some photos if anyone is interested.


----------



## Helmut.G (May 31, 2011)

netprince said:


> No, it must not have made it to my local post office in time for delivery on sat either, I suppose tomorrow...
> 
> Will try to get some photos if anyone is interested.


 
interested!


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## smokelaw1 (May 31, 2011)

I'd love some GOOD shots too! Mine were so bad, I'd just love SOMEONE to remedy that in this thread! LOL. 

I'm still enjoying the performance etc of the light. I wish they had kept priciing the same, so more people would ahve gotten to share the experience.


----------



## netprince (Jun 1, 2011)

I received my 70w HID lightpipe recently and snapped some pictures. I haven't had time to take it out in the dark yet, hopefully tonight.








The business end.





The power supply





According to the batteries, any of the voltage levels will work.





Power supply specs.





Charging the batteries simultaneously with the Y cable. Initial charge seemed to take about 2.5 hours.
Also note the silver heat shield goes below the batteries, and the ballast goes between the batteries inside the protective blue 'spongy' stuff.





The battery, interesting that it uses a battery pack designed to recharge a laptop.









Battery specs.





Ballast front.





Ballast back.





What is this?





The wiring layout.





Inside the tube. (note there is an additional piece of silver heat shield not shown)





The tail cap.





Beam profile, note the darker yellow spot on top. Taken about 45-60 minutes before dark.

This is my first HID, so I duno what is good and what is not so good. Comments?


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## BVH (Jun 1, 2011)

I've tested input and output of 3 slim chrome 70 Watt ballasts with the exact same label and appearance as yours with the following results:

Ballast #.......Input Watts......Output Watts to @ bulb

1.....................68.5......................61.14
2.....................57.89....................51.06 (edit to correct reversed numbers)
3.....................62.04....................56.07

Above numbers are at the end of a 5 minute run. At 30 minutes, numbers were reduced by about 2 more Watts at the bulb. All three were tested in open-air and measured between 89 - 104F degrees. In a closed environment, I would expect them to be much hotter.

Can you tell what splice method is used under the mound of electrical tape?


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## netprince (Jun 1, 2011)

> Can you tell what splice method is used under the mound of electrical tape?


 
I was wondering about that, but I haven't checked it. Will check later.


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2011)

Gentlemen,

Several people have requested that we offer an explanation as to the sudden price increase on our website for this product - so here goes:

As most of you are aware the product and the associated sourcing of components and marketing is in the fledgling stages. While many of the components comprising the product line have costs which are reliable and stable the costs of the lithium-ion batteries used for all of the models hinges on what is essentially a blowout/closeout price on lithium-ion batteries by Cellboost who provides the RPCX battery used in all of the models. At the time the prices were originally formulated we were under the impression that we would be able to source LI batteries at a similar cost but it became evident that once the supply of batteries from Cellboost dried up the prices we were offering would be impossible to maintain. This coupled with a flood of orders and limited supply of RPCXs on hand necessitated that we raise the price as a contingency measure to reflect what it would cost to build the units with batteries that were sourced via mainstream/conventional sourcing. In the interim however we have been able to acquire enough of the Cellboost batteries to offer the units once again at prices very close to the original pricing. For those people that had intended to buy our products and became disillusioned with the sudden price increase we hope that the revisited prices will allow you to make a purchase if you still so desire. At a cost of 20 cents per watt/hour the RPCXs are very hard to match cost wise and frankly unless there is a radical change in the cost of LI batteries from conventional sources we don't expect to be able to offer these prices once Cellboost is done with liquidating their inventory. 


Here are the prices that we can offer to CP forum members at the present time (simply state your CP username when ordering to receive this price - these prices will NOT be published on the website until Monday 6/6).


LP-35A $95.00
LP-35B $105.00
LP-50A $105.00
LP-50B $115.00
LP-70 $135.00
LP-100A $225.00
LP-100B $235.00
LP-150 $365.00
LP-250 $450.00


Roger,
Lightpipeflashlight.com

PS: We had hoped to create a product that was strictly geared towards giving the biggest bang for the buck performance wise without the fancy and esoteric packaging of more expensive lights - if the prices can be brought down lower we will do our best to do it - in the works at moment is a compact version of the 100W unit with shorter run time and price.


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## DM51 (Jun 1, 2011)

Welcome to CPF, Roger ​ 
Thank you for your informative post, which I am sure will be welcomed by members. We do not normally permit very much traffic on CPF from manufacturers or dealers about their products, especially if it could be construed as advertising. In this case however, you are responding to questions raised by members, so we'll allow it. 

I would ask you to take a little time to read the Advertising Policies and Procedures for CPF and CPFMP, and ensure that you understand and abide by these policies if you intend to make further posts.


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## BVH (Jun 1, 2011)

Roger, thank you for taking the time to respond to the questions raised here. It's nice to get the straight scoop from the persons "in the know".


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## 2100 (Jun 2, 2011)

The batteries alone from a hobby site would cost $200 for the LP-250. So what are you waiting for guys? 

From the looks of the pack shape and internal cavity, the packs are easily changeable in 4 years time when they wear out. No issues for these "proprietary packs"....unlike a lot of flashlights in the LED arena. (hope they are still around in 4-8 years time).


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## 2100 (Jun 2, 2011)

Made in Korea = OEM Samsung cells?


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## 2100 (Jun 2, 2011)

netprince said:


> Beam profile, note the darker yellow spot on top. Taken about 45-60 minutes before dark.
> 
> This is my first HID, so I duno what is good and what is not so good. Comments?


 
The dark yellow spot is normal, no worries. If you check the chamber you'd see the unevaporated halides. Some bulbs (prob the lower cost ones) have more than others, and do leave this spot. It would not affect long distance spots/throw. If you roll the light around you'd even get it to become 3000K for a short while.


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## Kubbie (Jun 7, 2011)

2100 - the 250 come in yet? Patriot, will you jump back in now?

[email protected] - would you tell us the voltage of batteries/ ballast input on the different models? 


LP-35A $95.00
LP-35B $105.00
LP-50A $105.00
LP-50B $115.00
LP-70 $135.00
LP-100A $225.00
LP-100B $235.00
LP-150 $365.00
LP-250 $450.00


Would you consider a sale of a light *without *the battery / charger? 
If so, pm my a revised price list (or post if it is something you would consider as a partial DIY...)

I have a number of batteries and a balancing charger for my son's R/C cars hobby, 
2x) LiPo 5000mAh 2S / 2 Cell / 7.4v 30C constant / 40C Burst discharge and 
2x) LiPo 5000mAh 3S / 3 Cell / 11.1v 30C constant / 40C Burst discharge 

Even if I just ran the two 2s batteries (14.8V in series) at 250 watts, that's 16.9 amps, and only 11.25 amps on the 3S LiPo's. 
(HisTraxxas truck can pull 120 amps)
Plus I can charge at 2C to get back going quicker. (Actually 1.6C, my charger only goes at 8 amps.)


Edit #1 - I just saw the ballast on the 70W wants 15V min, I'd have to run a 5S or 6S to get enough juice.
Edit #2 - And also thought about space, each LiPo is about 150x50x27mm...


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## 2100 (Jun 7, 2011)

It is indeed a very good idea to sell the light without batteries. This way you can go international more easily too (save some weight). 

Kubbie, they are still testing the reliability of having the lightpipe to add on a feature in which the reflector can be changed to allow the user to change between narrow spot and the flood modes. More useful in reality, narrow spot is good for hobby, but in real use it will blind everyone within 50 metres.


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## IgNITEor (Jun 7, 2011)

netprince,
Sure is fun seeing you take apart your Lightpipe!
The 4" pipe cap in the next to last pic is especially nice. Genuine OTS.
In pic #11, I think you're holding the ignitor. At 23 kV it's a true hot re-strike.
It'll be good to see a distance beamshot. Nice pics!


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## dagwood (Jun 9, 2011)

yea a distance beam shot would be great thinking seriously about getting a 70 watt one


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## stollman (Jun 10, 2011)

I did a mod on a Vector 192 using two 100W Ballasts (Vector 192 BFL), and am interested in pulling the trigger on a LightPipe 250. For those that have purchased a 70W or whatever...it seems you guys are happy with the product quality and output. Is that true?

If I do buy it, I'll do a shoot-out of the Lightpipe 250 versus my Vector 192 BFL.

Stollman


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## smokelaw1 (Jun 10, 2011)

Yes, I am pleased with the quality/output/price of the light.


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## magicmanchris (Jun 11, 2011)

Looking forward to the comparison stollman. I've enjoyed your past pics and video. If you can, include the YAO because many have had interest and there was much discussion on that one a couple months back.


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## 2100 (Jun 23, 2011)

Lightpipe LP-250NS shipped via USPS Express International, supposedly with the new shroud which is removable to easily interchange with different beam patterns via different reflectors. 

Anyway I just flashed myself with 100W ballast and 6-7" YAO-type host, point blank. I was checking up close the blue glow (IR hitting quartz), and accidentally hot restrike. [email protected]%!#@ Luckily it was at an angle, i'd hazard a guess that i got hit, both eyes, by the outer corona. Straight down the reflector = hotspot = goner.
2 days already and its healing till 95%. It was a bit puffy the first 4hrs and I had a headache. I have glasses (transition lenses) which block out 405nm-365nm pretty good (405nm lasers raw output and 365nm LEDs - they are no laser glasses)...LUCKY!

PS. Yes I digged out everything in the YAO host, and the 100W big ballast managed to fit at an angle, with the reflector in place. YAY!


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 23, 2011)

Sorry to hear the eye incident. My Friend is having eye issues long term, not sure if it was from 400W MH 
spotlight he was playing with. 

This is serious risks, good luck & be extremely careful.
I wear a face mask that blocks UV when I do my short arc mods.


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## 2100 (Jun 23, 2011)

Yeah, have to be very careful. I think some time or another enthusiasts like us have the tendency or urge to look at the arc or LED emitter, to check how bright or beautiful it is. heh heh.... never do that even for a second. Check out Laserpointerforum....the Safety and Legal section, the danger is that once the light intensity goes over a certain threshold, the effect is accumulative. Below a certain level, eg fluorescent light, you can stare at it for a million years, no issue.


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## dudemar (Jun 23, 2011)

You might want to have your eyes looked at by an optometrist just for good measure. A physiological reaction like your eyes getting puffy isn't a good sign. Possible injury might have occured!


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## 2100 (Jun 24, 2011)

dudemar said:


> You might want to have your eyes looked at by an optometrist just for good measure. A physiological reaction like your eyes getting puffy isn't a good sign. Possible injury might have occured!


 
Yeah...i am gonna go do some new prescription glasses so i'll ask them to check out that particular area which I got hit. Anyway the slight puffiness subsided, no issue now for some quite a while, no blind spots or anything.

If you'd ask me whether or not an assailant will be disabled by bright HID lights (if you continually shone at them). Now i'd say a big YES. For the first minute it was really scary. I was like WTF....


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## FRITZHID (Jun 25, 2011)

just a lil DIYers tip.... for quick checks on LED's or HID's of varying power, 2 pieces of polarization film overlapping and adjusted for the brightness (start dark and work up) work well for checking defects, arc shape, ect. can get a very clear and color accurate look at things. just be careful not to adjust to quickly!


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## BVH (Jun 26, 2011)

#12 welders glass works great.


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## Morepower! (Jun 26, 2011)

Has anyone seen or got pics of the 250W ballast yet ? I'm stinging to see one. Anyone ordered one that would be prepared to have it measured ? I'm tempted but the arc gap on the 250W bulbs is pretty big.


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## 2100 (Jun 26, 2011)

Welders glasses sounds great. Polarising filter...i think I have a 10-stop one, but i reckon it won't be enough for 250W. 55W probably would be ok. 

Morepower, the gap is 5mm. Check out MSD bulbs on aliexpress. They have 7mm gap for 1200W and I think 8mm for 2500W! That'd be da bomb. They use that for the 0.6 degree advertisement searchlights. 

These china buggers are crazy, they just use walk straight into the 7kW searchlight as if nothing happened. One 0.1s flash coz the head moved and both their eyes would be instantly gone. For lasers at least 1 down and 1 more left. LOL!  
http://www.youtube.com/user/vesitianlight#p/u/8/Ox-29iqg3Qg
This is without smoke effects, btw...with cleaning auntie sweeping the floor nonchalantly. (compare with the HPS street lamps intensity, no camera tricks) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APbk6vcZR5E


----------



## Morepower! (Jun 26, 2011)

So are we still stuck with having to use an inverter on these high power ballasts os is somone doing then to take straight DC ?


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## 2100 (Jun 26, 2011)

Morepower! said:


> So are we still stuck with having to use an inverter on these high power ballasts os is somone doing then to take straight DC ?


 
Of course. 100W ballasts @ 12V (smaller SLA usually sag, unless you are talking about a big *** 12V 12AH pack) thereabouts is already at the limit. So we are talking about 36V minimum thereabouts for 300W. Even then there are none not even at 48V, people have been searching for them. No demand. Unless you are an EE and DIY, but then the size would be much bigger. Besides inverters are not crazy expensive esp with aliexpress nowadays....like 150 bucks shipped for a 1kW one? 2kW ones run for low 200 bucks shipped. 

I made some mistakes on the spec, here :


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## Morepower! (Jun 26, 2011)

Are those Voltage figures in that table AC or DC though. It's pretty easy to make up a 50V Lithium pack to run the 400W ballast with the bulb that has a 5mm gap.


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## 2100 (Jun 27, 2011)

Morepower! said:


> Are those Voltage figures in that table AC or DC though. It's pretty easy to make up a 50V Lithium pack to run the 400W ballast with the bulb that has a 5mm gap.


Not sure, but i think most prefer to do AC. 

The 400/525/1200 ballasts all need at least 90VAC input. If its DC then i guess we'd be happy to use SLA or something, not too bad efficiency.


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## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2011)

*Termination of Online Sales*

As of today we are terminating all online sales of our product line.

The reasons for this are severalfold and include the following:

1. Unreasonable expectations/demands from customers coupled with a lack of a payment method that provides protection for merchants to the same degree that it provides protection for buyers. 

Paypal's current policy is to side with the buyer in every conceivable scenario while holding the seller totally accountable for every possible problem that might arise with a sale irrespective of whether or not the problem was caused by the seller or not. While this may be feasible for the larger online merchants doing high volume and selling mass produced trinkets manufactured in China - as a small merchant we are simply unable to sustain the inequity and assume the associated risk caused by Paypal's policies.

Our experience in the short time we have been marketing the product line online is that online customers who pay through Paypal have the following expectations of our product:

A. Customer Service on par with a shopping experience at Nordstrom
B. A product that, although not available through any other source due to the fact that it is extremely esoteric/innovative/complex/limited demand is somehow miraculously produced with robotic assembly line level manufacturing techniques and tolerances in extremely limited quantities and offered at a Walmart price with an equivalent or superior return policy and product support that is on par with a Sears lifetime free replacement warranty on it's line of hand tools.
C. If any of these conditions are not met immediately open a Paypal dispute and be ensured that Paypal will ALWAYS side with the buyer.

As an example of the difficulties we have encountered here is an excerpt from an email conversation from a customer who apparently is a member of this forum:





To: "Lightpipeflashlight.com Customer Service" <[email protected]>
As i said on the other email flashlight stopped working.

Won't hold charge.

Charged all night and it doesn't light up.

Paint is rubbish, falling off.

Duct tape on the wires.

Absolutely poor quality.

Unacceptable.

Hope to hear soon.

Tks

*[name removed - DM51] *


To: "Lightpipeflashlight.com Customer Service" <[email protected]>
I've seen you chose the hard way not answering my emails.

I'll let paypal decide and CPForum members know about the situation.

Tks

*[name removed - DM51] *




Note that this individual, who was rude and demanding, opened a Paypal dispute and requested that we refund him for the $45 overnight shipping to Hawaii that was a special request he asked for...Paypal would likely grant this request as it is their policy to ALWAYS side with the buyer however unfair it is to the merchant. This individual also suggests that he did not know that the product was not an assembly line manufactured product, however he clearly is a member of this forum and is aware of this thread.

So, thats all folks,:thumbsdow
Our final comment is to point you to a source for your 250W HID Light that outputs 18,000 Lumens and has a 30 minute run time for $450 bucks:

www.kmart.com

Regards,
Roger
Lightpipeflashlight.com


----------



## Rezolution (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Which one? This one?

*[link deleted - DM51]*


----------



## smokelaw1 (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Roger, 

As someone who owns your 70W light and has been generally pleased at the price point, I am confused. Doe these not look like valid complaints? 
Won't hold charge.

Charged all night and it doesn't light up.

Paint is rubbish, falling off.




How much time went by between that e-mail and the paypal dispute? It's too bad that it has come to this. 

That said, I have noticed that the batteries don't hold a chanrge very well, but I tend to charge this light before I know I'll be taking it out anyway. I've never had it fail to light, and the paint is holding up fine.


----------



## chanjyj (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

I have to say I'm rather sad at this news - not that I was planning to buy one in the short run, but rather that a manufacturer who has gotten onto the CPF landscape is going to disappear.

Nothing anti-China, but I'd like to see more variety certainly.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

"at the price point"

That is the key phrase in your statement that should be highlighted.

The objective was to achieve the highest possible lumen-runtime/cost ratio (with a decent reflector) and sacrifice the cosmetic aspects of the design in favor of these.

We felt that it would be abundantly clear to the technically savvy people (which we erroneously thought were the majority on this forum) out there that it would be obvious from the get go that the thing, which is made out of PVC pipe, would be very crude and lack refinement.

But we have to contend with people who open a Paypal dispute at the drop of a hat over the fact that electrical tape was used as opposed to heat shrink tubing. Anybody, and I mean anybody who is going to fixate over the use of electrical tape and the fact that it is sloppy looking simply has no clue as to where this product fits in the pecking order among the available choices out there and is either looking for a Lexus at a Kia price or is far to anal for anything other than the mass produced offerings from China. Again, anybody that thought our product was mass produced on an assembly line (out of PVC pipe), and after reading this thread, needs their head examined.

As stated above the central problem is Paypal, we have been marketing products on Internet since the late 90s and with the weak economy many shoppers are now looking for ridiculous bargains on things and when they don't get what they want they simply call Paypal to come to their rescue with little or no regard to the merchants who are trying to make niche offerings and rely on intelligent consumers. This is a lethal situation for small businesses...so we are bowing out...it just isn't worth the hassle.

Once again, if you can find a 150W or 250W HID unit for the price we were asking we simply say more power to you...else we suggest you try to build it yourself and once complete do the math and see how much you saved over what we were charging and post your full results here including all of the explicit detail of what things cost, how much time you spent etc. (this will allow others to reverse engineer your work so that you will be assured of not being able to ever sell them to make any profit).










smokelaw1 said:


> Roger,
> 
> As someone who owns your 70W light and has been generally pleased at the price point, I am confused. Doe these not look like valid complaints?
> Won't hold charge.
> ...


----------



## dudemar (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Roger,

Sorry to hear you are bowing out. You offered what seemed like a good product (didn't get the chance to buy one), and I don't think you should let a few customers leave a bad taste in your mouth. As the saying goes "you get what you pay for'. The dissatisfied customers should have known this well before their purchase. As you mentioned they have seen pictures of the light on this forum.

Not to cause offense, but the way your website (www.lightpipe.com) portrays the lights it gives the appearance they were mass produced to the untrained eye. The lights themselves look very clean-cut and doesn't give the impression they are hand-built. That and people generally assume flashlights are mass produced. I know it's redundant, but perhaps it wouldn't hurt to mention on your website that these lights are built to order?

If anything you can maintain a CPF MP post (or in the custom-build section of CPF) giving CPFers the option to continue buying your lights.

Just a few suggestions I wanted to throw out.


----------



## petersmith6 (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

*[Whining deleted - DM51]*


----------



## ma_sha1 (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Sorry to hear about this, bad news travels fast over the internet.
It's nearly impossible to market a product that sets a lower quality expectations in exchange for pushing the power & brightness enevelope.

Even Walmart, if things didn't work, it'll be returend & refunded even thou it's 
very cheap to begin with.

Good luck & perhaps, there'll be a refined strategy that will allow you to sucessufully market a line of spotlights with improved quality, there's no other way out, pushing eneveloop is nice as a hobby, but it never pays the bill...

Customers are always right, CPFer or not & no matter how wrong IT SEEMS at times, 
without them, there is no market to begin with

Good luck!


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Thanks for your suggestions - but the only scenario under which we would ever consider online sales of this product again is via a payment method that is irreversible - there are simply too many people that abuse the honor system and use Paypal and merchants as if they are shopping at Walmart...Walmart can afford the frivolous returns...small merchants can't. Also, needless to say, Walmart does not sell items that are limited production handmade electronic items that are at the prototype level in terms of product refinement and demand a significant level of user sophistication.





dudemar said:


> Roger,
> 
> Sorry to hear you are bowing out. You offered what seemed like a good product (didn't get the chance to buy one), and I don't think you should let a few customers leave a bad taste in your mouth. As the saying goes "you get what you pay for'. The dissatisfied customers should have known this well before their purchase. As you mentioned they have seen pictures of the light on this forum.
> 
> ...


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Ohhh right, this is the same individual that (without any supporting rationale or evidence) insisted that the 250W unit would be a pile of "melted goo" made in America.
Rest assured that units made of American made Charlotte and Genova PVC pipe (which is used all over the world) did not incorporate any Lucas electrics (or any other british crap such as rustbucket cars)
You might want to pull your head out of your rear before making these kinds of assessments without any supporting evidence or experimental rationale - likewise - regarding the problem mentioned above - it was not a design defect - it was a defective battery/s - and we did everything in our power to make it right - but the guy opened a paypal dispute requesting a full refund including the $45 we paid for overnight shipping minutes after we first heard about the problem.



petersmith6 said:


> *[Whining deleted - DM51]*


----------



## Morepower! (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Hi Norm, I too have a Website that does a reasonable amount of online bussiniess. I only except Visa, Mastercard, direct deposit and cheque)goods only sent when cheq has cleared obviously), screw PayPal !! You could add Amex but make sure you add a surcharge of about 1.5%, if people complain about that you can tell them with the 3 points per $1 spent they still come out infront, this came directly from my accountant. When I get an email complaint I answer it imediately whith some thing like "sorry to hear about that I'll get on it straight away and I apologise for the inconvenience". This gives you some time to lookinto the claim and come up with a solution while at the same time letting the customer know they are not being ignored. An email is quick and easy especially if you are flat out at the time. As soon as someone thinks they are being ignored, including myself, they will see it as you don't care as you already have their money. There are certain clauses you can find everywhere on the internet you could add to your site that will offer you some protection. What I do with repairs is if the customer has been nice and polite(given me the benefit of the doubt) I ask they pay the shipping to me and I will pay the shipping back. If they are rude they pay shipping there and back, if they carry on too much I just give them a refund and ask them to not but from me again. Believe as much as you hear it you don't want every customer, some are just assholes that like to create problems and complain abount anything and everything. Anyway I hope in some way this helps as i am considering your 250W light, if you do pull the lights off line at least drop me an email at [email protected].


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## dudemar (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*



[email protected] said:


> Thanks for your suggestions - but the only scenario under which we would ever consider online sales of this product again is via a payment method that is irreversible - there are simply too many people that abuse the honor system and use Paypal and merchants as if they are shopping at Walmart...Walmart can afford the frivolous returns...small merchants can't. Also, needless to say, Walmart does not sell items that are limited production handmade electronic items that are at the prototype level in terms of product refinement and demand a significant level of user sophistication.



It sounds like those individuals who filed a dispute took advantage of that option, instead of simply trying to work things out with you. Then again in the US we do live in a "Wal-Mart" society, where we return things we don't like at the drop of a hat.

I think if the light was made on an "on request" basis, as in a CPF member has to specifically make a request (or leave a deposit) to have one of your lights built, it would be best. As a company that sells products through a website I can imagine the difficulty of dealing with PayPal disputes. Since individual CPF members have a reputation to keep it should be a lot easier selling through CPF Marketplace. It is relatively rare when something does go sour, and when it does problems are worked out as a community, not on an all-or-nothing basis.


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## FRITZHID (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

it really is a shame when a growing, aspiring company goes down just because of a few sour apples that chose the bitter path. however, with a lil research, ingenuity, clarification (i.e. *prototype mod's*, electrical tape, ect...), manufacturing upgrades/knowhow/_*SUGGESTIONS!!!*_ (honest criticism as opposed to hammed complaints) and testing *before* shipping, this company (lightpipe flashlights inc.) could be one of the better if not best light sources on the market! i have been in the electronics and manufacturing fields for as long as i can remember (Deg in Ele. Eng. Laser, and Metallurgy, been "fixing problems" in those and every other field since High School.) , and not one company has got'n it right, right out the gate.

At this point in time i only wish i could join Roger in his endeavors to create and perfect a HID light that's; made here in the USA, strong, long lasting, *COST EFFECTIVE*, and as inspired as the light they have tried to provide for _*US*_, the consumer!

Yes..... Lightpipe made errors.... we all do. they could have stated that their light was a "proto" and that it has some refinement room, but is that any reason to exile a company that is try'n to provide to the consumer what they want @ the best price? 

no.

BUT! ..... and i say this strongly..... LIGHITPIPE..... i know.... and i FEEL..... you could have done MUCH better promoting your product.

i believe you jumped the gun promoting ur lights on CPF (even tho word spreads fast),


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## FRITZHID (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

sad part is i lost alot in the copy/paste for 1 reason or another.... had alot more to say..... but i guess its lost..... just like the "de_geusing coil" or... TV, or...Tesla Coil.... or...need i go on? (TESLA should say it ALL! INVENTORS!)


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## FRITZHID (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

ya'll hiring? lol


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## DM51 (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Moderators usually remain neutral in disputes, but almost always where there is a case of members vs. a dealer or manufacturer and the case is a clear enough one where some guidance from staff is required, we will side with the membership.

Here, it is the other way round. A few unscrupulous and whining individuals have driven out a small manufacturer with a series of frivolous and frankly dishonest complaints and claims. 

There are one or two members who should be hanging their heads in shame.


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## forexer (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

I bought the 70watt light and besides the bad battery pack which wasn't roger's fault, i'm happy with the light. I'm supporting American entrepreneurship. I think its good to take a break for now since this much has happened over that short a time space.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*



FRITZHID said:


> ya'll hiring? lol


 
Uhhhhh, NO, he can barely keep it at float with one men show, how could he possibly afford to pay for a pair of extra hands? :huh:


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## chanjyj (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*



forexer said:


> I bought the 70watt light and besides the bad battery pack which wasn't roger's fault, i'm happy with the light. I'm supporting American entrepreneurship. I think its good to take a break for now since this much has happened over that short a time space.



- deleted - wrong information


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## smokelaw1 (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Really? I thought I remember a US return address on the box when I got mine.


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## chanjyj (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*



smokelaw1 said:


> Really? I thought I remember a US return address on the box when I got mine.


 
Yeah. My bad. I got mislead by previous posts stating the type of plastic, and Roger's profile location.
Edited my original post.


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## warmurf (Jun 29, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Well for my ten cents worth.... Hang in there- just get some terms you can deal with and as someone else said, drop paypal. You've created an innovative light that we can't get somewhere else and have tried to keep the cost down taboot! That's what we need! We can't all afford Polarions. So please for the mass majority here who are honest enthusiasts who appreciate what you're doing, keep these available to us. I was looking forward to seeing a review or comments on the big 250W, then getting one- and I for one would have known I was getting a custom made back shed light, and would have loved it all the more....!


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## 2100 (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

No more 250W, the bad apples spoilt the show and Roger said he will give me a refund and not send out my copy as the risk was too great (my copy was supposed to be sent last Thur, guess same time when the other guys messed up the party). Was really hoping for it to throw 3km, if not 2km is nice too and get some beamshots for you guys.

I think people have been playing with too much Olight/Surefire/etc. When i received my Amondotech 3152, the charging circuit died the first week. No prob, just unscrew the SLA out, splice the adpapter cable + 2 alligator clips...done. Then the adapter died a while later, no problem....i have too many adapters anyway. When I got my Sanmak 5200, the ballast got loose and pokermarked the reflector...no prob they fixed it with replacement. Inside are also cable ties and similar stuff...., the battery cable was loose and the power connector was missing a screw, some 3M foam tape fixed up the connectors and also used it to secure the ballast and 23kV box etc... My second Sanmak 5200 was sent to me by mistake (i purchased another light), and they got the wattage wrong (35W instead of 55W) plus the plastic bezel cracked and the reflector was again pokermarked. I just asked for a partial refund..... DIY with super glue etc. 

What matters is it performs! I thought that's the general appreciation here with the usual folks here in the HID spotlights forum. I thought I did some calculations in some previous posts.

I'll probably be losing about usd40 due to exchange rate for this. USD is still sliding non-stop....


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*



[email protected] said:


> Ohhh right, this is the same individual that (without any supporting rationale or evidence) insisted that the 250W unit would be a pile of "melted goo" made in America.
> Rest assured that units made of American made Charlotte and Genova PVC pipe (which is used all over the world) did not incorporate any Lucas electrics (or any other british crap such as rustbucket cars)
> You might want to pull your head out of your rear before making these kinds of assessments without any supporting evidence or experimental rationale - likewise - regarding the problem mentioned above - it was not a design defect - it was a defective battery/s - and we did everything in our power to make it right - but the guy opened a paypal dispute requesting a full refund including the $45 we paid for overnight shipping minutes after we first heard about the problem.




Roger,

Sound like an international transaction. In PP dispute, buyer must send back the unit to get a refund. 
In your case, it's not over until the light gets back to you, otherwise PP will rule it to your favor & the money will go back to your account. Paypay withhold money for now is temporary, pending on their final decision, which is pending on the light being back to your hands.

An alternative for not selling international, is to only accept PP gift or money owned option for international.
Buyer is fully aware of such payment bears no PP protection, but if they still wants it & willing to take the risk, than you can sell it w/o financial risk.

You can still do post sale service/repairs, but it'll be on your terms, not PP terms.
I some times sell a light internationally, but always PP gift only for international, for self protection.


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## ma_sha1 (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*



2100 said:


> No more 250W, the bad apples spoilt the show and Roger said he will give me a refund and not send out my copy as the risk was too great (my copy was supposed to be sent last Thur, guess same time when the other guys messed up the party). Was really hoping for it to throw 3km, if not 2km is nice too and get some beamshots for you guys.



If you still really want it. offer to pay with PP gift or money owned, it'll take the fear away from Roger. 
Obviously, you won't have PP protection, you'll take the risk if something goes wrong. But he light be willing to do it that way.


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## petersmith6 (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

so much for fredom of speech!!!


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## petersmith6 (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*



[email protected] said:


> Ohhh right, this is the same individual that (without any supporting rationale or evidence) insisted that the 250W unit would be a pile of "melted goo" made in America.
> Rest assured that units made of American made Charlotte and Genova PVC pipe (which is used all over the world) did not incorporate any Lucas electrics (or any other british crap such as rustbucket cars)
> You might want to pull your head out of your rear before making these kinds of assessments without any supporting evidence or experimental rationale - likewise - regarding the problem mentioned above - it was not a design defect - it was a defective battery/s - and we did everything in our power to make it right - but the guy opened a paypal dispute requesting a full refund including the $45 we paid for overnight shipping minutes after we first heard about the problem.


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## petersmith6 (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

"same individual that (without any supporting rationale or evidence) insisted that the 250W unit would be a pile of "melted goo" made in America"


well for 25 years ive been doing fire and accedent investigation so Yes i Do know what im talking about. two years ago two people were killed in a house fire...why..a home made hid dive light made with PVC pipe had turned it self on and the resulting GOO set there house on fire. thats TWO peple DEAD .


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## DM51 (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

petersmith6... I suggest you discontinue your indignant line of nonsense. When you find yourself stuck deep in a hole of your own making, continued digging is not generally considered to be a sensible or reliable method of extricating yourself.


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## 2100 (Jun 30, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

Bro, AFAIK PVC does not burn. Its always the batteries. Same for that Trustfire X6 case which popped. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgZH0JX2pHI


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## forexer (Jul 1, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

if pvc can withstand bowel crap, warm tepid human waste, oil, grease, hot boiling water for years why cant it withstand some ballast heat? i have the light and it hardly gets warm. the heat is mostly from the bulb and there is adequate heat shielding from heat wool and silver foil... the only very hot part is the glass lens which i suppose is warm enough to evaporate 50g of water in 5 minutes


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## petersmith6 (Jul 2, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

while pvc will withstand bowel crap, warm tepid human waste, oil, grease, hot boiling water it flowing and not confined. we spent a month trying to figure out how the accedent that kill two people happend. if it wasnt part of a court case i would post photos and videos from the re-enactment. but the rough jist is this..there light was a PVC tube with ballest, reflector, heat sheild and lithium power pack... pvc tube didnt realy conduct what ballest heat and bulb heat away to the out side world.the power pack was similar to the one shown previously and as the ballest was free to make contact with the power pack ,so what ever heat made was dumped into the lithium power back. the power pack was being run at its limite so it too started to get hot. now we have heat from the ballest,the lithum power pack and the hid bulb....in a confined enviroment of a relativly insulating plastic tube.they may not put a lot of heat out on there own doing what there supposed to do,( car hid ballest atached to the metal work car as a heat sink and air flow from movment and laptop power pack charging a laptop.) then you start to have problems .yes it was the lithium cell over heating and going runaway wich resulted ith the flaming pool of goo falling off the work surface setting the house on fire. we ran the experiment 100 times and only had 3 fires so maybe they were just unlucky but the other 50 showed significant heat rise.

but mabe more moders and men in sheds should be aware that just becouse the diy creation works dosnt mean its safe.


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## 2100 (Jul 2, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

I'd agree with petersmith6 on that.... the inherent dangerous of LiCo, esp big packs. That means a lot of us are at risk..... so are those in the RC hobby. We have a subforum dedicated to that. My Ebay HID 3S3P packs i store it outside of the light and charge in the yard where there are no flammable materials (it would be quite a big bang). I have smoke detectors, gas hoods and ABC fire extinguishers, its not foolproof and does not guatantee anything, but its better than nothing. I don't even charge my 18650/16340s when i am not around in the house. 

But then if you are too afraid of everything then life really becomes a chore.


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## Walterk (Jul 2, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

'' just because the diy creation works does not mean its safe'' , thx for pointing that out :thumbsup:.


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## dudemar (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Termination of Online Sales*

My $0.02 on the whole thing:

At first I thought Lightpipe was a good deal, so I started a thread on it. Then came the price increase, which was abrupt and a bit off. I don't mind price increases, so long as there is sufficient warning (like a week or two before the actual increase). This was made up for by Lightpipe offering a CPF discount, which in my view was a very generous offer. That said I was happy to see it still on sale, only to find out Lightpipe was discontinuing their line of flashlights.

It only took a handful of party poopers to pull it off. Extremely unfair for any dealer to go through. Any buyer (ESPECIALLY a CPFer) would look at the photos and precise descriptions posted in this thread before purchasing this light. I sure did, except I never got a chance to buy the light... which brings me to my point. To the unhappy few who demanded a refund:



What exactly were you expecting through the mail? A Polarion? A Surefire Beast? Perhaps a TI HID? If so I'd say forget it, don't kid yourself. It's a hand-friggin-built light made from PVC pipe. Yes, there's going to be bits of tape and glue. Yes, the batteries were originally from laptops. You had no excuse. IMO spoiling a chance for others to purchase this light is worse than ANY price increase.



I personally think Lightpipe should still sell this light on a case-by-case basis. If someone is unhappy with their purchase, they can hash it out via PM or (if necessary) take it up to the Cheers 'n Jeers thread. Much better option than a PP dispute IMO.


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## dudemar (Jul 22, 2011)

Looks like the Lightpipe is still being sold through their website on a case-by-case basis. As of right now it's better than nothing.


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## Colonel Sanders (Aug 31, 2011)

Have you looked at the latest website prices? Not quite the bargain it once was....well, unless that CPF pricing from June is still in effect....is it Roger??? I'd love to have a 100B!...but not at $400.


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## netprince (Aug 31, 2011)

I have had my lightpipe for a while now, and I have to admit the batteries are definitely a weakness of this light. Here's what I have found out about the battery packs:

Pros)
- They are made of 6 18650s each, in 3s2p configuration.
- The batteries can be bought at walmart.com, site-to-store shipping, for $9 each 
- The battery packs have a boost circuit which regulates the output voltage to 15v. (probably good for the ballast?)
- As far as I can tell, the packs do have over-discharge protection

Cons)
- The internal charging circuit does not balance the cells. I am no expert with lithium ion cells, but I have metered the cells in a fully charged pack, ranging from 4.1v to 4.3v. (should I note, this is dangerous?)
- The boost circuit mentioned above stays active as long as the battery leads from the lightpipe are connected. That means if you dont disconnect the battery leads from the batteries, they will be completely discharged in 7-10 days. Happened to me several times before I figured out how it works.
- There are often dead cells in these battery packs. One of the two packs that came with my light was defective, and lightpipe replaced it no problem. I then ordered 4 more battery packs from wal-mart.com, and 2 of them were defective. 


So, what do I think of the light now? I have the 70w version, and it is VERY bright. I wish it came with a standard battery pack which could be ballance-charged with a hobby charger. Would I still buy it if I knew then what I know now? Probably not.


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## smokelaw1 (Sep 1, 2011)

netprince said:


> - The boost circuit mentioned above stays active as long as the battery leads from the lightpipe are connected. That means if you dont disconnect the battery leads from the batteries, they will be completely discharged in 7-10 days. Happened to me several times before I figured out how it works.
> .



Ah HA! Thank yoU! THAT'S why my light sometimes doesn't hold a charge. If I charge the light but don't use it, I leave teh leads disconnected. If I use it a bit, I tend to just shut off and put away. Never picked up on the correlation/causation! THANK YOU!!!!

Oh, and at the prices I got it at, would I still buy? Probably, but it's not the slam-dunk I thought it was, especially with the info above about the batteries.


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## ma_sha1 (Sep 1, 2011)

Those Battery packs sounds pretty scary, Pipe bomb waiting to happen? 
Better off swap in a 14V 26650 based Lifepo4 Pack for safety.


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## smokelaw1 (Sep 1, 2011)

ma_sha1 said:


> Those Battery packs sounds pretty scary, Pipe bomb waiting to happen?
> Better off swap in a 14V 26650 based Lifepo4 Pack for safety.



Where would one find those? And I wonder if the plugs involved would then need to be changed.


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## BVH (Sep 1, 2011)

Batteryspace.com

ww.batteryspace.com/lifepo4cellspacks.aspx


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## Colonel Sanders (Sep 1, 2011)

Anyone know if they are still offering the cheap price to CPF? Their posted website prices range from about 50-80% higher! :huh::tsk::eeksign::wow:


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## JulianP (Sep 1, 2011)

I wouldn't think so. If you read the whole thread, you'd expect Lightpipe to charge CPF members another 20% for all the trouble some have caused.


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## Colonel Sanders (Sep 1, 2011)

:lolsign: Oh well....only so much I'd pay for a plastic pipe. I wish I'd been looking for an HID when the old prices were good. I would have said


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## stollman (Sep 7, 2011)

Anybody know what Bulb and Ballast they are using on the Big light?


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