# M-Zeppelin M6 triple MC-E mod using MZP7-3 sink



## LED Zeppelin (Apr 1, 2009)

I built a 3X MC-E Surefire M6 LED mod using the sink originally designed for a tri-P7 configuration. Details of the sink are here.











*Hardware:*
- MZP7-3 sink, unmodified
- (3) MC-E M WD in series, each with dies wired in parallel
- (3) cut McR27XR (same as used for the P7 build)
- Shark Buck 3A
- Remora

*Details:*
- Vf of string = 9.8V @ 2.8A
- Regulated LED currents are 0.4, 1.0, and 2.8A on lo, med, hi
- At 11.1V, light draws .35, .89, and 2.4A on lo, med, hi
- Light can run on 11.1V - 25V or 3-6 li-ion cells

*Beamshots:* 
Camera @ ISO200, white balance sunshine, F4 starting with 1/8, 1/30, then 1/125 sec.
Both lights running 6 X CR123 in FM holder, 18V. Tri-P7 is DSWOJ, Shark Buck 3A/Remora.









< lux @ 1.5m = 5200








< lux @ 1.5m = 4300

For proper focus, the reflectors needed to be raised 0.007". To acheive this I used 2 layers of 0.005" double sided thermal tape on the angled reflector seats. 

The gap between the bottom of the reflector and the LED base is about 0.090", so some light is escaping underneath. Even so it compares favorable to the tri-P7 version, with more throw and a defined spot. There is no donut in the beam at all.


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## nailbender (Apr 1, 2009)

Awesome Dennis as always. I was wondering if it could not be done. Honest opinion which do you like the best. 

dave


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## Edwood (Apr 1, 2009)

Looks great, Dennis. :thumbsup:

So the 3x MC-E doesn't go into direct drive like the P7's do? Looks like the MC-E is a better solution, unless you want more of a flood light, although the MZOX-4 seems better suited to the sheer wall of light task.

Hopefully those new Ostar SMT 4 die LED's will be available for you to play with in the future. Although, if I get my hands on some, they will be. 

-Ed


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## LED Zeppelin (Apr 1, 2009)

nailbender said:


> Awesome Dennis as always. I was wondering if it could not be done. Honest opinion which do you like the best.
> 
> dave



Dave, I like the MC-E version, but some of that has to do with the tint. The P7s seem to have tint gradients within the beam whereas the MC-E is uniform. The P7 is a much easier build though. 



Edwood said:


> Looks great, Dennis. :thumbsup:
> 
> So the 3x MC-E doesn't go into direct drive like the P7's do? Looks like the MC-E is a better solution, unless you want more of a flood light, although the MZOX-4 seems better suited to the sheer wall of light task.
> 
> ...



Ed, the MC-E version will also go into DD. It will behave almost identically to the P7. For the beamshots I ran both lights on 18V to be sure they were in regulation.


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## maxspeeds (Apr 1, 2009)

This is a work of art, Dennis! :twothumbs I am so happy you were able to tame the mc-e's hotspot. I still have an X in the middle of mines  This looks like a great alternative to your triple P7 build (actually, a superior one when distance is needed).


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## petrev (Apr 1, 2009)

Super COOL

Funny - but I had never seen comparison shots of the actual emitters before ! The MCE are much smaller than I expected ! ! ! Simple photos don't show the differences well - these show that they are really very different beasts so now I understand why they are so different in use. Thanks for that too.

I think the yellow-ring colour cast problem with the P7 is down to the area of yellow base around the emitters. The MCE don't have it and later Cree XRE have dispensed with the yellow surround as well.

Good looking beam LZ - worth all the pain of the more difficult assembly I'd say.

Cheers
Pete


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## nleahcim (Apr 1, 2009)

So how are you heatsinking the P7 version? I mean - it looked like you wired the LEDs in series and tied the slugs to your heatsink - but aren't the slugs tied to the P7 anode? So aren't you creating a short there?

Also, for the MCE version, are you mounting the LEDs directly to the heatsink? No PCB? Did you just bend up the surface mount leads of the MCE and solder to them directly?


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## petrev (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi LZ

Anims ! ! !

1. Zoom 108% + Rotate 5.5 
2. X-Fade






2. Just Swap






GIFs do lose some of the subtleties but you get the idea !

Thanks to LZ
Pete

ps. Lovely bit of Epoxy Alignment Soldering Wiring
:thumbsup:
Not to mention the coolest HS ever ! ! !


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## toby_pra (Apr 1, 2009)

Very nice looking mod....:twothumbs


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## LED Zeppelin (Apr 1, 2009)

Pete, once again than you for the anims!



nleahcim said:


> So how are you heatsinking the P7 version? I mean - it looked like you wired the LEDs in series and tied the slugs to your heatsink - but aren't the slugs tied to the P7 anode? So aren't you creating a short there?
> 
> Also, for the MCE version, are you mounting the LEDs directly to the heatsink? No PCB? Did you just bend up the surface mount leads of the MCE and solder to them directly?



nleahcim, the anodizing is an electrical insulator and the main reason for the process.

The MC-E are indeed epoxied right to the sink. I did not bend the leads up as they have sufficient clearance as is. I did pre-tin the tops of leads before epoxying the loose emitters to the sink. I used just enough epoxy to ooze out but not interfere with the leads. Once the epoxy cured I shaped my wires and pre-tinned them as well. When I was satisfied with the fit, I held the wire in place and applied heat to it, which flowed to the LED leads. I checked each die with my power supply, and touched up any that weren't lighting. It wasn't too difficult, but notice I oriented the MC-Es so I could shape the leads and fit my soldering tip comfortably.


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## bluecrow76 (Apr 1, 2009)

Very nice! I like the hotspot of the MC-E version for better throw. I would love to see an outdoor distance shot comparing the P7 vs. MC-E.

I just splurged on a Megalennium host. Hopefully I'll be able to afford one of your sinks later this year!


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## maxspeeds (Apr 1, 2009)

Dennis,

I have a quick question regarding your cut down McR-27xr reflectors. Do you know (now that they are shortened) if they can fit in an Aleph1 head with an mc-e light engine (or any aleph light engine for that matter)? 

Cheers!
Joel


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## LED Zeppelin (Apr 2, 2009)

Joel,

I don't know if they'll fit, but they are 0.95" dia, 0.61" tall.

They would need to be spaced off the MC-E as well.

I have a hunch that the standard McR27L is a good fit with the MC-E. if you had a head for that reflector I think you'd be all set. I'd guess that if you shaved off 0.010" from the back, and enlarged the hole slightly, you'd have a nice beam. The back of the reflector would rest on the MC-E housing.


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## Patriot (Apr 2, 2009)

What, no sales thread yet.....?


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## wquiles (Apr 2, 2009)

Awesome work Dennis 

Will


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## Icarus (Apr 15, 2009)

bluecrow76 said:


> Very nice! I like the hotspot of the MC-E version for better throw. I would love to see an outdoor distance shot comparing the P7 vs. MC-E.


 +1 ... and of course another great mod Dennis! :twothumbs


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## LED Zeppelin (Apr 16, 2009)

Thanks guys.

Here are some beamshots. Beamshots taken at ISO200, F3.5, 1.6 sec, white balance sunshine. Lights were aimed at the upside down red canoe. 

First up is the subject MZMC-3 module running 6 X RCR123 in the FM holder, 22.2V.





Next a reference MZP7-3, DSWOJ, same Shark Buck 3A and cell configuration.





Last is a reference stock M6 with MN21 running 6 X CR123, 9.2V.


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## maxspeeds (Apr 16, 2009)

Love the beamshots, Dennis! The tripple MC-E is a winner in my eyes. What type of runtime is to be expected off the 6xRCR123 cells? I'm guessing they're running 2s3p with 8.4volts and 2250mAH capacity (asssuming each RCR123 has a 750mAH capacity). 3A on high would make it 45 minutes to drain to 0% capacity, so maybe 35 minutes to keep the cells alive? Does this sound about right?


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## LED Zeppelin (Apr 16, 2009)

maxspeeds said:


> Love the beamshots, Dennis! The tripple MC-E is a winner in my eyes. What type of runtime is to be expected off the 6xRCR123 cells? I'm guessing they're running 2s3p with 8.4volts and 2250mAH capacity (asssuming each RCR123 has a 750mAH capacity). 3A on high would make it 45 minutes to drain to 0% capacity, so maybe 35 minutes to keep the cells alive? Does this sound about right?



Joel, the RCR123 are in series, 22.2V, and draining at about 1.5A. So assuming 750mAH cells, runtime on hi would be about 30 minutes.


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## petrev (Apr 17, 2009)

LED Zeppelin said:


> Joel, the RCR123 are in series, 22.2V, and draining at about 1.5A. So assuming 750mAH cells, runtime on hi would be about 30 minutes.



Hi LZ

How does it work using the Petrev 6x17500 holder ? 

:devil:

Cheers
Pete


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## LED Zeppelin (Apr 17, 2009)

Pete,

Need you ask? Your holder adds almost 50% more capacity for runtimes of almost 45 minutes, fully regulated.


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## petrev (Apr 18, 2009)

Hi LZ

Thanks 

On a slightly different (but related) note . . .

Can you think of a good way to drive say 4xMC-E from 3s18650

? ? ?

I can drive them from my 6s17500 using a Buck3A I presume ?

Cheers
Pete


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## LED Zeppelin (Apr 18, 2009)

Pete, I built a similar dual-Shark mod here, but it's demanding on the cells. I think the Shark Buck 6 X 17500 is a better solution.

There may be some other drivers out there that I am not familiar with.


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## LED Zeppelin (Apr 30, 2009)

I built up another MZMC-3 using warm tint MC-Es (JE5) and modified McR27S. The 27S are longer in back do not have the gap under the reflector. The sink is similar to the MZP7-3 but has been modified for focus.







Here are some beamshots (ISO200, white balance sunshine):
Outdoor, 1.6 sec, F3.5
Indoor, F4, 1/15, 1/30, and 1/125 sec


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## csshih (Apr 30, 2009)

ack!.. that's not physically possible!..

...yet it _is_. 

nice work!


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## petrev (Jun 22, 2009)

Hi

Now with 4 MC-E in a FiveMega 3" head

M6 LZ4MC-E


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## gsxrac (Jul 28, 2009)

Hey LZ plannin to buy my M6 very soon! Are you planning on making these available?


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## LED Zeppelin (Jul 29, 2009)

gsxrac said:


> Hey LZ plannin to buy my M6 very soon! Are you planning on making these available?



Gixxer, PM me when you're ready. I have various sinks on hand.


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