# What would get you excited about flashlights again?



## Greta (Mar 1, 2014)

So I was having a conversation with someone today about how the flashlight industry has basically gone flat because there's really nothing new going on. Everyone has access to Cree's now, everyone is doing high, low and strobe... (to death!), there's just nothing NEW. As a result, I think most of us are quite simply... BORED! :candle::tired:

So what would YOU like to see happen in the flashlight industry to make it exciting again? What would it take to catch your interest enough to want to follow along and TALK about it... and be anxious to BUY it?


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## kletus (Mar 1, 2014)

A miniature wearable would be nice. But me thinks batterys need to advance more to make it more than a gimmic.


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2014)

Lights than can effectively run off of different battery options. Honestly, other than the Pelican 8060, and my own non-standard SureFire 9P (Custom Leef body that can accept 3xCR123 *and* 2x18500 thanks to the use of one of Gene Malkoff's older M60 drop-ins which is compatible with both types of batteries) there just aren't any excellent options for such a light. (I'm not counting that one weird Energizer model that can apparently run off of three or four different types of alkaline batteries. It's cheaply-made and output is nothing special either. Nor am I counting lights that require a special battery-carrier or adapter to reduce the overall internal size of the flashlight barrel so the light can run on a different type of battery.)

Another idea.... Rechargeable battery technology that is as safe as NiMH but as powerfully as lithium Ion cells. 

Those two would honestly get me excited. 

(Okay, I'm easily satisfied. Never said I wasn't.)


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## moldyoldy (Mar 1, 2014)

we all have problems with lighting up objects that may be a long ways away, or maybe rather close. yet most available lights have a fixed reflector. eg: Most of us are familiar with the Maglites and their focusing ability and what that beam looks like (yuck). How about a handheld light similar to the Petzel NAO headlamp currently being sold for $175. The price is still high, but the idea is to solve the far/near problem in a handheld light.


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## Greta (Mar 1, 2014)

This is good stuff gentlemen... keep it coming! I have to admit, I'd really like one that is capable of using different batteries also. And I do wish more rechargeables had the USB option. 



> A miniature wearable would be nice.



kletus... wearable how? and how miniature? Like compared to what?


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2014)

Greta said:


> kletus... wearable how? and how miniature? Like compared to what?



His post immediately brought to mind for me, the La Petite Killer.

Tiny, beautifully-made (like a piece of very tasteful jewelry), could be worn around the neck. In an emergency, the tiny and hidden "bezel" could be rotated to produce light. Perhaps at a formal event in case of a power outage.

I'd like to see small jewelry-lights such as that. Oh, but with much more output and increased runtime for their tiny size.


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## Burgess (Mar 1, 2014)

I'm easy to please . . . .

Just want an AA version of Fenix E01.

Is THAT too much to ask ? ? ?

:sigh:
_


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## blackbalsam (Mar 1, 2014)

Seeing some new Milky Mods...Robert


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## Greta (Mar 1, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> His post immediately brought to mind for me, the La Petite Killer.
> 
> Tiny, beautifully-made (like a piece of very tasteful jewelry), could be worn around the neck. In an emergency, the tiny and hidden "bezel" could be rotated to produce light. Perhaps at a formal event in case of a power outage.
> 
> I'd like to see small jewelry-lights such as that. Oh, but with much more output and increased runtime for their tiny size.



I would LOVE to have "light" jewelry! Can you imagine a nice manly bracelet that has a small button you could push to light your way... or read a menu in an under-lit restaurant? Or a tie-tack? YES! And for us ladies? A pretty brooch... or pendant. Earrings instead of a headlamp?!?! That would be jewelry I would buy. Sure it may be a little costly because you'd want it made out of slightly exotic materials... but I'd be all over it! And think about this guys... wouldn't it be a lot easier for you to get away with buying all of your fancy lights if you also bought your lady a shiny new bauble?


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## Flying Turtle (Mar 1, 2014)

The rebirth of a fully programmable and reasonably priced light like the old LiteFlux. Just upgrade the emitter and keep the UI. Please hurry.

Geoff


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## Greta (Mar 1, 2014)

Flying Turtle said:


> The rebirth of a fully programmable and reasonably priced light like the old LiteFlux. Just upgrade the emitter and keep the UI. Please hurry.
> 
> Geoff



And see... I wish we could see the "re-birth" of simplicity. Two modes - high and low. No programming, no click five times for this or that or stand on your head while turning the head three twists to the left then two to the right, blahblahblah. KISS - keep it simple ******. On - off. One hand operation.


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2014)

Burgess said:


> I'm easy to please . . . .
> 
> Just want an AA version of Fenix E01.
> 
> ...



Only light I have that comes close to such a thing is my Original Nitecore EZAA model. (I think I honestly bought the last one before it was discontinued.)

Though not exactly a AA version of the E01. Keep twisting and you get an extra level of output. Plus, the body is a bit thin in order to keep the light from being too fat. So you don't really get the durability of the E01, and the EZAA has a traditional reflector. Hate to say it, but the Nitecore is the closest thing out there; and yet isn't a perfect AA-based clone.


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2014)

blackbalsam said:


> Seeing some new Milky Mods...Robert



+1

Sadly, as is the case with a one-man shop, you can't expect that man to go forever at the pace Scott has been driving himself. Even I was genuinely surprised at how busy he was. (And I knew he had a ton of orders in front of mine.) Unfortunately, cloning technology isn't perfected for humans yet.


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## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2014)

Greta said:


> I would LOVE to have "light" jewelry! Can you imagine a nice manly bracelet that has a small button you could push to light your way... or read a menu in an under-lit restaurant? Or a tie-tack? YES! And for us ladies? A pretty brooch... or pendant. Earrings instead of a headlamp?!?! That would be jewelry I would buy. Sure it may be a little costly because you'd want it made out of slightly exotic materials... but I'd be all over it! And think about this guys... wouldn't it be a lot easier for you to get away with buying all of your fancy lights if you also bought your lady a shiny new bauble?



Yeah, that's the main reason I want jewelry-lights to become more common. She gets some nice baubles, I get to buy more lights and she can't complain. :twothumbs

Would like a nice manly bracelet. (SureFire's wrist-light is manly. But oh so ugly.)

Never thought of a tie-tac light. That's a fantastic idea!! A gold tie-tac with a diamond in the middle of it. Perfectly centered. But it's a small and very bright LED emitter instead!


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## Greta (Mar 1, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> (SureFire's wrist-light is manly. But oh so ugly.)



Agree!



Monocrom said:


> Never thought of a tie-tac light. That's a fantastic idea!! A gold tie-tac with a diamond in the middle of it. Perfectly centered. But it's a small and very bright LED emitters instead!



Exactly!!


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## Greta (Mar 1, 2014)

So here's another question to add to the discussion... What do you think is the biggest reason you have cut back on new purchases and/or getting involved in discussions here on CPF (or any other place you may frequent)?


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## Overclocker (Mar 1, 2014)

1) cradle-charged 14500 or 2x CR123A pocket-rocket w/ deep carry clip and moonlight

2) nitecore SRT3 w/ integrated green laser and UV LEDs instead of the stupid red/blue

3) buck/boost drivers! 1000 lumen lights these days are really quite silly, use them for a couple of minutes and they fall out of regulation already and start getting dimmer from there

4) bluetooth remote control and configuration via smartphone app. and the flashlight must not suck


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## Monocrom (Mar 2, 2014)

Greta said:


> So here's another question to add to the discussion... What do you think is the biggest reason you have cut back on new purchases and/or getting involved in discussions here on CPF (or any other place you may frequent)?



For me, four reasons:

1) Realized awhile back that I truly do have enough lights to last me four lifetimes. (Used to joke about that on CPF. But it turns out it's true!) I know, I know.... No such thing as _too_ many lights. But on a personal note, I found it very hard to justify to myself buying more lights in addition to the ones I have. (Hell, I enjoy giving away lights but that still has not put a dent in my large collection.)

2) And another contributing factor regarding buying more lights is that all of my bases are already covered with the ones I already have. And then some. While output numbers are going through the roof, I already have a handful of output monsters. Yes, in terms of sheer lumens number out the front, there are quite a few new offerings that look impressive as Hell. But you get to a point where you realize it's not as though "Darkness" gets exponentially darker every year. Thus requiring brighter and brighter and even brighter flashlights as the years go by. I'm honestly satisfied with my custom Leef-bodied SureFire M4, my SureFire M6, my 35watt Sam's Club HID, and my Fenix TK35. I don't have this feeling of lusting after a 1,000 lumen LED light about the same size or slightly smaller than my older incandescent M6. That M6 puts out closer to 650 lumens on a fresh set of CR123s, and then settles down to around 500. Chasing lumens is a losing game.

Along with that, other than lumens numbers; I'm just not seeing anything remotely impressive from ANY flashlight company in recent years. (I'd say about the past three years or so.) Just no "Wow" factor. Plus, a couple of companies seem to be taking steps backwards. Streamlight and SureFire are both getting rid of even their more popular incandescent models. (As much as I like inca. lights, I can understand streamlining a company's offerings with regards to slow-moving models, but even the ones that seem to sell well? Why do that?) And I'm sorry, but ever since Paul Kim left SureFire; we're seeming more and more of these slippery (literally), kinder and gentler SureFires. Whatever happened to the days when the checkering on aluminum SureFire models could literally saw through the bodies of lesser aluminum lights made by other companies? When I pick up a SureFire, it should feel as though I'm holding a cheese-grater in my fist. It should not be as smooth as a baby's bottom. And about as slippery as a damp bar of soap. Who decided to take SureFire in the kinder and gentler direction? And why? I have no clue. I'm just glad I bought every SureFire model that I wanted back when SureFire was known for its lights having aggressive, cheese-grater style, checkering. And I feel sorry for those who recently came into this hobby and missed out on the Golden Age of SureFire. 

3) I got into watches. While being a flashaholic is actually a rather cheap addiction, being a WIS (Watch Idiot Savant) is easily one of the most expensive hobbies out there (without getting into car collecting). I have a ton of truly excellent lights. Can't say that about my small and humble collection of watches. Plus, I'll get this out of the way. While our hobby has real, practical, purposes to it. Getting into watches.... The exact opposite! That's where the "I" in WIS actually comes from. That hobby makes no sense, and has no practical purpose to it at all. In fact, those addicted to watches end up paying thousands even hundreds of thousands for watches that are less accurate and sometimes substantially less durable than a $12 No-name, cheap, Made in China, quartz watch. 

Doesn't change the fact that I've been bitten by the watch bug. (Though from what I've seen of my fellow WIS, that little guy wasn't very hungry when he bit down on me because it's blatantly obvious that he bit down a whole helluva lot harder on nearly every other WIS I've ever met or encountered.) Still, there's just something so special and beautiful regarding a finely made mechanical watch. Open up a quartz model, and no clue exactly how it works. Not so with an old-fashioned mechanical model. You literally see all the gears and springs. You can see just how it works. Shake up a mechanical watch with a self-winding rotor (an automatic watch), and you can hold it up to your ear; then you can hear its little "Heart" beating. Technically you can do the same thing with a baby. (Though obviously don't shake it up first.) But it's just a smile-inducing experience doing that with a watch.

Unfortunately an IWC Mark XVII isn't what you'd call "inexpensive." Neither is a Breitling Super Ocean Heritage in 42mm, or a Tudor GrandTour, or an Omega Planet Ocean. While a Mido Multifort is far less expensive than those other watch models but has restrained good-looks that make it worth owning, and *any* Damasko is going to be a sign of an absolute true WIS that only other like-minded individuals will notice; even those watches are significantly more expensive than some of the flashlight models available today as the "Latest & Greatest." 

A new, more expensive, hobby combined with nothing exciting coming from companies that make products for an old hobby.... Though not entirely gone, just another reason why interest is waning in that old hobby. 

4) Like many flashaholics, although I'm not days away from moving into a cardboard box and begging for spare change, yes; unfortunately in recent years with the economy in the toilet, I'm not doing as well as I should be. Perhaps I'm putting that just a bit mildly. So, even though this hobby of ours' isn't an expensive one; with the combination of already owning tons of lights, nothing new that truly grabs my desire and holds onto it from various flashlight companies, a new hobby that has grabbed my desire and refuses to let go, and the economy still in the toilet thus necessitating a general reduction in all of my hobbies.... All have combined to be the biggest reasons why I've personally cut back on new flashlight purchases.

As for general involment on CPF or discussions on CPF.... Awhile back I noticed I was pretty much posting the very same thing over and over and over again. Basically, warning new members of the potential dangers of using CR123 cells, and how to greatly reduce those dangers. And that was pretty much ALL that I was posting.

Also, some of the old regulars either left or their personalities did a 180. Leaving I can somewhat understand. I miss those guys. The LED Museum, DHart (who now only stops by once in a rare while), 65535, Goatee (whose user-name was literally keyboard characters that spelled out a face wearing a goatee and winking at us). And the rest of the guys. And DM51 too. (And it saddens me that new members will not ever get to know him or what he's done for CPF.) But the personality changes really threw me. Honestly, so different that in a couple of cases I could have sworn that the individual retired from CPF.... And that someone else took over their account. And in every case of a 180, their personality did not change for the better. In one case, a member whom I'm not going to mention who he is. Years ago, I posted something on CPF that made him worried enough to sincerely inquire about my health. Looking back at how he's changed. I ask myself if he'd do the same thing today under the same circumstances. And when I'm forced to admit to myself that the answer is "No," I'm bothered by that realization. 

I don't like the new members. They don't seem to have a desire to stick around at all after getting the answers to their "Recommend me a flashlight" question. I'm sure a few stick around. The vast majority seem to vanish afterwards. It's no fun having a discussion with a total stranger. I like seeing the same guys. I like conversing with the other regulars whom I've gotten to know. I don't like it when they leave. Even though I know it happens constantly on internet forums. I like it even less when their personalities do a complete 180. So now I'm back to interacting with a total stranger. Might as well be. Actually, it's even worse than interacting with a total stranger who is completely new. At least the new members might honestly be posting as who they are in real life. Their real personalities. A regular who does a 180?.... What are we supposed to think then? I don't like that either. 

Another issue is that flashlight technology really does seem to have plateaued. (With the exception of going brighter.) Seems like it has already been done. Same with interesting topics on CPF. All already been done. The fun, spontaneous topics.... done. Though in fairness, perhaps it just _seems_ that way; to me. (Funny what you can do with a couple of lights designed by a guy named "Henry," a bit of modeling clay, and some free time. And none of the new members have a damn clue what I'm talking about. ) A plateau in flashlight technology will naturally bring a plateau in topics discussing that technology. 

All of the above is just naturally going to at least somewhat reduce an individual's desire to come back to CPF as frequently as he used to in the past. One odd thrill for me now is scrolling through a recent topic and finding a post made by a member with a pair of red shoes next to his user-name. Just brings a smile to my face. Once again, new members have no clue what I'm talking about. None.


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## Monocrom (Mar 2, 2014)

Greta said:


> And see... I wish we could see the "re-birth" of simplicity. Two modes - high and low. No programming, no click five times for this or that or stand on your head while turning the head three twists to the left then two to the right, blahblahblah. KISS - keep it simple ******. On - off. One hand operation.



The more I think about it, the more I agree.

I wish SureFire would update their U2. Having owned a Night-Ops Gladius, I can see why that model with its selector ring for set output levels failed so miserably. (Overall very good design plagued by very poor execution of that design.)

But SureFire's U2 is different. Gave one a solid and very simple light that could have its output varied by pre-set levels, thanks to its out-of-the-way-but-there-when-needed selector ring. Unfortunately, all those pre-set levels were set too close together because the U2's highest setting was only 100 lumens. Imagine an updated U2 capable of 400 lumens today, with the same number of selector ring output levels. I'd buy that in a heartbeat! 

Unfortunately it seems both the Gladius and the U2 were ahead of their time. While the Gladius suffered from very poor execution of its design, the U2 suffered from reliability issues in which lights stopped working soon after being used by their new owners, or were DOA right out of the box. That hurt the reputation of the U2. 

As for simpler lights in general.... Was seriously considering getting a Streamlight Strion. Decided that the LED version would be a better choice for what I planned on using the light for, and then I realized that the LED version was stuffed with extra modes that were all controlled by the tailcap switch. I needed just basic on/off. Nope! Sorry, can't have that! :ironic:


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## ven (Mar 2, 2014)

Lots mentioned so will throw something in i find useful,flood/throw or zoom what ever the term.
BUT
I want the option of tk61 throw,flood of the MM15 ..............BUT i want it ipx8 rated,can lock head by a twist in any position so no accidental "zoom" movement if knocked(head not moved in or out).

Clever heat sinking so no "silly" step downs after a minute......Simply programmable mode to cater for all,on/off or various settings for customisation if desired......

For me that light would do everything i need or want on a personal level,it could not be the VERY VERY best at everything though,just very good at everything.......

That is just a personal view and requirement,i know it wont suit many possibly as some lights do both well without the "zoom" 

Trouble though,if manufacturers made the perfect light that did everything then they would sell 1,i know perfect is subjective so dont want to get in too deep.

I should have just said this really..........
A decent ipx8 rated zoom light imo would be good that could be locked in any position so could be used as a fixed light when the owner finds his own perfect balance of flood/thow for their need........

:thumbsup:


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## whiteoakjoe (Mar 2, 2014)

I agree with everything I have seen in this thread. I got interested when the 18650 headlamps came out, but since then BLAH... As for what I would get interested in? I am not satisfied with the weapon lights (Handgun) that are on the market. Give me a handgun weapon light that can use rechargeable batteries 16340 or 14500. I would like to see a light made for power outages, I remember the old metal 6v lanterns that we used on the farm in the 70's. Something that size stuffed full of 18650's and an internal charger could keep a room lit for a week. I also like the idea of a light with two heads (possibly at each end) and side switch, or just two led's properly placed on one end. One with a flood beam and one with a great spot beam. I would also buy an 18650 flashlight that had a side mounted flood led so I could have a Headlamp/flashlight.


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## orbital (Mar 2, 2014)

+

Using* XP-E2* emitters 



________^


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## dc38 (Mar 2, 2014)

Decent shoulder/backpack mounted area floodlights...Headlamps usually do the trick, but may become uncomfortably warm on your head after a while. placing a flooding light mounted to a lightweight frame without direct irritation or contact with the body might be nice...


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## Stress_Test (Mar 2, 2014)

kletus said:


> .... But me thinks batterys need to advance more to make it more than a gimmic.




BAM. I think you nailed it. LEDs have made tremendous strides over the past few years and now they've pretty much flat-lined by comparison to the early years. (similar to the computer processor from 1990s to 2000s). 

Look at the low-self-discharge batteries. The capacities have stayed mostly the same for many years now. I've seen some higher-capacity LSDs advertised but they haven't hit mainstream it seems.

A big increase in battery capacity/efficiency would have a big impact on the flashlight industry I think. We've reached diminishing returns on LED efficiency. It's just not worth forking over the cash anymore for a "new" light that only adds a few more lumens to the 500+ or whatever we already have.


The only other possibility I see is a major advance in the driver circuit or LED forward voltage, such that you could drive the LED to high output levels at low voltage. In other words, have high output levels from a single 1.2v - 1.5v battery source. Then a 1AA pocket light suddenly becomes competitive with the full-sized lights, whereas now the single AAs tend to be limited to 100 or 130 lumen or so.


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## Stress_Test (Mar 2, 2014)

Greta said:


> And see... I wish we could see the "re-birth" of simplicity. Two modes - high and low. No programming, no click five times for this or that or stand on your head while turning the head three twists to the left then two to the right, blahblahblah. KISS - keep it simple ******. On - off. One hand operation.



Glad to see I'm not the only one. The Fenix TK10, TK11, and TK20 were probably my favorite interface. Two modes only high and low, impossible to accidentally switch while turning the light on and off. The TK12 and TK30 were clever ways to add another mode "set" based on turning the head, which still kept the switch totally independent. These are probably some of my favorite lights.

Now Fenix has gone completely the opposite direction with all the multimode switches. That one monstrosity has something like FIVE different buttons on it! 

That's been one thing keeping me out of new lights. Most of what I see with all the "features" fall further and further into the "toy" category and not the "tool" category.


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## ven (Mar 2, 2014)

There will always be a lm race as thats what sells to the majority imo,be nice for makers to concentrate a little more on this so called haIII rating.Great yeh but slightest catch and chips......so better paint/what ever is used on the materials.

Also a better variety of tints,just an example here(nothing more) Fenix tk75 with a/b/c/d tints.
Also for manufacturers to give brief example of the k,example -4000k/4500k/5000k/6000k so buyers have an idea(not everyone are as clued up as CPF members!)
So more choice,i know it comes as a cost,but a few extra $ i am sure peeps would be happy for the choice......again just my humble opinion.I know certain manufacturers do,i think more choice per model basically.

Also few more accessories,like filters/diffusers,that way flood options if needed,i know some do,but maybe more should ...........imho vertically all lights should have holsters for example,some may hate them but its there to protect,i use them even on my smallest of lights........
So more accessories as standard.........as it does play a small part in my light choice.All the small parts add up!!

Also be good if cells,ideally protected came with the lights(inside to prevent any safety issues) along with to the point bullet points on safety side to li-ion cells.No harm on the flashlight box .......
I guess some of them are more my personal improvements over interest but just points.

I have a high level of interest still tbh,cost is always a factor for me,i cant but $3-400 lights all the time,so depending on cost depends on buying frequency for me.....no matter how much a must have it is,i must have the money :laughing:

Longer guarantees also for piece of mind...........i mean come on 2yrs..........some offer 10,lets get that sorted,that does make a difference to me,especially more so if classed as an "expensive " light.


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## ElectronGuru (Mar 2, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> I don't like the new members. They don't seem to have a desire to stick around at all after getting the answers to their "Recommend me a flashlight" question.



I blame it on easy. Years back, newbies like myself came in, with the same questions and the same concerns. But the answers and implementation took so long that by the time you got the light even working, you had formed relationships (joined the community). When the solution is a single purchase from a single web link, there simply isn't a need to stick around long enough to get confirmable. 




Monocrom said:


> Another issue is that flashlight technology really does seem to have plateaued.



I'm in several tech communities and see the same patterns. Cameras aren't developing like they used to, apple needs to make us wow again, flashlights aren't exciting - where's the innovation? In all cases, they are describing the feeling of seeing and wanting and buying and using the something new. The excitement that comes from a profound improvement. And less progress = less excitement.

Apple isn't that similar, I mean what goes into a pad or phone existed before and what we were actually doing existed before. It was just applied in a different way to give us a new experience. So now everyone is waiting for the next new application. Photography is a better comparison. It's light in vs light out, but the big analog to digital transition was almost parallel. A huge change followed by many smaller changes. Now it's 'the new LEDs/sensors just aren't doing it for me'.

The big innovations we miss came directly from the myriad problems of the new technologies. 1st the low hanging fruit, then the medium, then the refinement. And as each new generation landed, we got to see the effect multiply over all the people applying it in new ways. With fewer places for the base technology to go, the slower innovators are catching up to the faster innovators and we are all encroaching on that line that separates the now from the next.

The funniest pattern in photography is effects. After 100+ years of continuous hard work to get the camera to the point that what comes out looks like what came in (faithful reproduction), we've finally achieved it. And thread after thread will speak at length about how sharp this lens is or accurate that setting is. And in thread after other thread, the results (share your picture here) are intentionally distorted. We finally get to perfect and pictures now look more exciting with the wrong colors and bad focus and weird patterns. The very things we spent a century correcting.

It's not about the technology, it's about us. We are built to handle change and in the face of stagnation, we suffocate.


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## jabe1 (Mar 2, 2014)

I can certainly agree with most of the other's who have posted here. I think Monocrom hit the nail on the head though. 
The economy isn't helping.

It feels to me like most of the newer members are just here to get a quick "best" light recommendation and then are gone forever. How many of them are willing to spend the time reading and researching? They don't see the value in the thrill of the chase.
Part of this is due to what's now available at the B&M stores. When I joined, 200 lumens from a Homedepot light was laughable.

What I'd love to see someone do is a light "system". Something legoable, much like the Surefire P series was, but modernized. Different heads, tubes,switches etc.

Secondly, why not start with the battery (LiPo maybe) and have various switches and heads that can be used with it.


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## ven (Mar 2, 2014)

With the 1 question,get the answer and bye,seems to happen on all forums(sorry for being off track).I will admit it took me a little adjusting at 1st,bit intimidating at 1st with the vastness and amount of members,this is from someone who uses several 4x4 sites and a moderator.

I think depending on response,how to the point "use the search" replies dont help imo..........not saying it happens a lot by the way,just an example.

I find this place great,i joined back in Oct and not looked back tbh.........well my wallet has :laughing: but at 1st i was a little unsure how i would take/get on as it can be difficult ,sense of humour,to opinionated peeps,so vast it has it all(along with most.......ok all sites).Different cultures,different ways of thinking,so making the effort adapting helps too.

Either way i like it,its great,everyone has been great:thumbsup:

Sorry for digression:whoopin:


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## orbital (Mar 2, 2014)

+

*" Build this " thread



:thumbsup:
*


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## archimedes (Mar 2, 2014)

jabe1 said:


> ....
> What I'd love to see someone do is a light "system". Something legoable, much like the Surefire P series was, but modernized. Different heads, tubes,switches etc....



Completely agree with this ... it should be _modular_ and _programmable_.

People enjoy customizing things to (look and/or) function exactly in a particular way. Look at the popularity of the P60 format and custom dropins, and HDS, and the LF2XT, and (although perhaps to a lesser extent) Peak, and ArmyTek.

Even McGizmo, in the realm of expensive titanium torches, offers modular components ... and now his newest series of lights are programmable !

I really miss the Aleph series, which provided almost endless possibilities, while still retaining more accessible prices.

And SureFire now seems to be moving _away_ from modularity (unfortunately, in my opinion).

I've really enjoyed getting to know some of the regulars around here, in my relatively short time on CPF. Many times I have been impressed and occasionally even amazed by how friendly, kind, and helpful this community treats others. This is certainly not typical for all forums, and I know significant effort is invested by the staff to maintain such a pleasant environment


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## Prototype3a (Mar 2, 2014)

I too have been looking for an updated Surefire U2 for MANY years. I loved my u2 but unfortunately, it no longer works correctly and I would love to replace it. I've seen several lights that come close to replacing it with selector rings but none really do it for me.


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## jabe1 (Mar 2, 2014)

Thanks Orbital, I forgot all about that one. Gave it an obligatory bump.


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## Monocrom (Mar 2, 2014)

Stress_Test said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only one. The Fenix TK10, TK11, and TK20 were probably my favorite interface. Two modes only high and low, impossible to accidentally switch while turning the light on and off. The TK12 and TK30 were clever ways to add another mode "set" based on turning the head, which still kept the switch totally independent. These are probably some of my favorite lights.
> 
> Now Fenix has gone completely the opposite direction with all the multimode switches. That one monstrosity has something like FIVE different buttons on it!
> 
> That's been one thing keeping me out of new lights. Most of what I see with all the "features" fall further and further into the "toy" category and not the "tool" category.



I for one am glad I bought a Fenix PD20 back when it was available. No desire to get the overly-complicated PD22 or any other current model that has a "2" as the last number in its designation. Combined with an open-top black holster for a Fenix P1D, my PD20 just disappears when carried on a thick black leather belt. the bottom of the holster and the top of the tailcap switch are just an absolutely perfect width-fit on the belt itself. Just perfect. Perfect holster-carried EDC light with plenty of output on one CR123 cell. Plus, no one will even notice unless they're standing close enough to you to be intimate. 

Part of me wishes I had bought another PD20 and another Fenix open-top holster originally made for the P1D before Fenix re-designed and "improved" the PD20 into a uselessly over-complicated thing. :thumbsdow


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## Monocrom (Mar 2, 2014)

ven said:


> With the 1 question,get the answer and bye,seems to happen on all forums(sorry for being off track).



Oddly, I have noticed that while it happens on the watch forums I frequent, it happens quite a bit less. Those new members tend to stick around. Can't explain why. Just something I've observed.


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## scout24 (Mar 2, 2014)

Please give me an AA and/or AAA version of the Titan. Or a similarly made control ring light in those battery sizes. I don't need or want Li-ion support for these. Decent tint, mildly floody for up-close work with a true sub-lumen low. No strobe, no s.o.s. mode. I have enough lumen cannons for now, except for the upcoming Wildcat from Malkoff.  I'd also like a bombproof AA with an awesome pocketclip, maybe 100-150 lumens or so. Kind of like an AA Haiku with a smaller head...  (You know who you are...)  Good thread, Greta. Thanks!


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## Skimo (Mar 2, 2014)

I want programmable, give me the option to set it to the basic on/off or click/twist the national anthem to set it to choose one of the 50 programmed modes. I have an odd relationship with flashlights most of the time I just want it to turn on and off, but sometimes I want to be able to smoothly transition from barely visible in total darkness to retina smoking.

I like following what's going on with builds, new products, mods and hacks, I'm okay with a slower paced forum. Eventually I'll do a build of my own and post the story with pictures, unfortunately there's only so much room in my head and so few hours in the day.


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## Greta (Mar 2, 2014)

This is a great thread everyone! I hope we get lots more participation! :twothumbs

I have to admit that I'm getting a little bored with CPF myself and I would like to spice it up somehow without losing its integrity and original intent. We're coming up on our 15th Anniversary next year - I feel like we should spend this year making CPF even grander. Thinking... :thinking:


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## Monocrom (Mar 2, 2014)

How about something like an Oscar Awards? Maybe not an Annual thing, but at least once.

Categories could include nominations for Best Classic Light, Best Inca. Light, Most Complicated U.I., (my personal favorite) Light Most Ahead Of Its Time. 

Perhaps sub-categories that are CPF specific, Best Topic, Most Loved Topic, Most Done to Death Topic, etc.

Just an idea....


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## KITROBASKIN (Mar 2, 2014)

Just as the iPod and the iTunes Store disrupted the music CD business, so would some innovative, new electrical energy storage medium, beyond current battery technology, that would cause us to have to buy new flashlights so we could remain 'cutting edge'.


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## idleprocess (Mar 2, 2014)

I don't have a lot of easy problems for the markets to solve.

I would like to see more LED tint options. I apparently missed out on Fenix's experiment with neutral tints, and they don't seem eager to repeat it, which is a shame since hitting good lumen numbers with acceptable runtime are not a challenge for LED's, but finding something <5000K _(that isn't "warm" 2700K!)_ isn't easy from the brands I'm familiar with. I'm also decidedly "out of it" when it comes to some of these newer makes, so perhaps some of these other players are quality makes worth considering.

That and some solution to the neverending battery problem - cost/performance/weight/volume/compatibility. Alkalines are slowly losing ground to NiMH. Li primary remains expensive. Li-ion has slowly and painfully gained ground with 18650's commonplace. The RC123A seems to be a more niche beast that's best limited to single-cell applications. Li-poly remains an R/C and integrated-battery phenomenon. LiFePO4 has trrbl capacity. The various small fuel cell concepts remain solutions for "cost is no object" higher-power (and bulk) scenarios like powering A/V gear on remote film/TV sets.

I heard about these wonderful programmable-UI lights and liked the _idea_ ... then recall that my one experience with one (from a custom maker whose name I am loathe to mention) was kind of mixed. I promptly realized that infinite brightness variation really didn't excite me all that much. Reading up on the UI's of other programmable lights, I'm still not sold on the _actuality_ of them as presently implemented. Even futzing with the various flashlight apps on smartphones that have appreciably more latitude when it comes to UI, I'm thinking the idea will never quite satisfy.

"Zoom" lights that don't have all the usual compromises (heads with appreciable movement, lack of watertightness, optical efficiency problems) would be nice since I'd like to switch between spot and flood without carrying an awkward diffuser for a light with throw - perhaps something that switched between sets of emitters without needing awkward large secondary optics / heads?



Greta said:


> So here's another question to add to the discussion... What do you think is the biggest reason you have cut back on new purchases and/or getting involved in discussions here on CPF (or any other place you may frequent)?


I discovered CPF when I was investigating the then-new concept of "power LED's" for a previous employer who was having issues with their cheap floro ballasts literally melting solder off of electronics in an enclosed equipment compartment. They opted to spend a few more dollars on more efficient ballasts and some ventilation, but I was fascinated by how the technology was moving at the time. I got hooked and flashlights were at the forefront of finished products with power LED's at the time.

However, I have a pattern with my interests along the lines of...
1. Discovery
2. Rising enthusiasm
3. Expertise
4. Disinterest

While there's no particular timeline, after the expertise phase disinterest eventually sets in. It's not that there's no more to learn or do, I just feel a need to move on to something else. I happened onto CPF when lighting technology was undergoing tremendous change, and dropped off as LED's place in the market went from unknown to contender to the dominant technology.

I have a lingering interest in fixed lighting as I contemplate projects in my home, but that's more of a _gradual simmer_ than _rolling boil_. Perhaps later this year when I have more free time I'll actually finish some of these projects.

I have dozens of flashlights from my previous intense interest in the subject. In spite of their general obsolescence, almost all of them still work. I rarely obtained high-end flashlights, so I don't feel a need to recover those funds.


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## StarHalo (Mar 2, 2014)

Greta said:


> I'm getting a little bored with CPF myself and I would like to spice it up



CPF is Classic Coke; be prudent with that formula.

As to the industry, it's not getting staid, merely repetitive - manufacturers are still trying to sell lights by the nearly decade-old method of one big lumen number and little else. The custom builders have it right; sell an EDC light as an EDC light, sensible design over extreme statistics. Neutral tints, logical mode progression with at least one moon mode, potted internals that work with the battery as well as they work with the LED, all these things should be standard by now, a given..


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## RIX TUX (Mar 3, 2014)

All I need is a ZL that is a thrower with 800-1000 lumens, small, 18650 battery, and with only 3 modes (h-m-moonlight)


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## orbital (Mar 3, 2014)

Greta said:


> This is a great thread everyone! I hope we get lots more participation! :twothumbs
> 
> I have to admit that I'm getting a little bored with CPF myself and I would like to spice it up somehow without losing its integrity and original intent. We're coming up on our 15th Anniversary next year - I feel like we should spend this year making CPF even grander. Thinking... :thinking:



+

How to increase business is an everyday thing.

..thinking


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## ven (Mar 3, 2014)

idleprocess said:


> I don't have a lot of easy problems for the markets to solve.
> 
> I would like to see more LED tint options.
> 
> ...


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## Greta (Mar 3, 2014)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Reading your title,
> are you interested in making flashlights more exciting *or* CPF?
> ...



From where I sit, they go hand in hand and the influence one has on the other can be significant. Any manufacturer would do well to monitor a thread like this and in truth, we have no idea who is watching. If just one manufacturer picks up something out of a thread like this (or is going through the Custom Modder and Builder forums), then we might just see something new on the horizon. It is a win-win situation. CPF is a factor in the flashlight industry whether anyone wants to admit it or not. That is one thing I most definitely "got" this year at SHOT Show. I remember wondering several times "When did I become someone? - I must have missed the memo" And by 'I', I mean CPF. I was told many times that anyone in the industry who does not know who/what CPF is and doesn't at least lurk is foolish to dismiss such a valuable resource. 

So my thought is that we (both CPF and the flashlight industry) are on the brink of exciting times again and if we want, we can be a big part of it. Just need to figure out... how?


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## orbital (Mar 3, 2014)

^

Greta, I just reworded my post,, it was not really what I wanted to convey
I understand it's a hand in hand thing...

You say we are on the brink of exciting times; is there some new technology coming soon?
*
A new US company, fully designing & assembly would be interesting to many here*


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## scout24 (Mar 3, 2014)

More raffles...  I realize they are time consuming, but they do generate buzz and revenue...


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## Greta (Mar 3, 2014)

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> Greta, I just reworded my post,, it was not really what I wanted to convey
> 
> I understand it's a hand in hand thing...





orbital said:


> +
> 
> How to increase business is an everyday thing.
> 
> ..thinking



You're still missing the point, I think. Increasing business is not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for interest and excitement - or perhaps I'm just longing for the good old days? Who knows. Is this what happens when one gets further into their 50's?


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## Greta (Mar 3, 2014)

scout24 said:


> More raffles...  I realize they are time consuming, but they do generate buzz and revenue...



Raffles are touchy. They can be considered "online gambling" if not done properly... which is where the time consuming part comes in. I have been thinking about it though...


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## subwoofer (Mar 3, 2014)

Greta said:


> This is a great thread everyone! I hope we get lots more participation! :twothumbs
> 
> I have to admit that I'm getting a little bored with CPF myself and I would like to spice it up somehow without losing its integrity and original intent. We're coming up on our 15th Anniversary next year - I feel like we should spend this year making CPF even grander. Thinking... :thinking:



And exactly why CPF is so great :twothumbs



Greta said:


> From where I sit, they go hand in hand and the influence one has on the other can be significant. Any manufacturer would do well to monitor a thread like this and in truth, we have no idea who is watching. If just one manufacturer picks up something out of a thread like this (or is going through the Custom Modder and Builder forums), then we might just see something new on the horizon. It is a win-win situation. CPF is a factor in the flashlight industry whether anyone wants to admit it or not. That is one thing I most definitely "got" this year at SHOT Show. I remember wondering several times "When did I become someone? - I must have missed the memo" And by 'I', I mean CPF. I was told many times that anyone in the industry who does not know who/what CPF is and doesn't at least lurk is foolish to dismiss such a valuable resource.
> 
> So my thought is that we (both CPF and the flashlight industry) are on the brink of exciting times again and if we want, we can be a big part of it. Just need to figure out... how?



Greta, well you and CPF have been 'somebody' for quite some time now, glad to see it has not gone to your head.

Back on topic though, and I agree with most of the previous posts but would add the following:

I believe that the flashlight market is now saturated. Just like any other sector in the market, you get a flurry of innovation and improvement and then anyone who wants to buy into it, does so. Then, all of a sudden your market declines, everyone gets bored, and only the strongest of the manufacturers with the greatest market penetration will survive.

I too have noticed a decline in interesting threads and content on CPF and more of the 'recommend me a light' requests, which mostly just seem lazy.

Of the lights I've used recently, there really is a pleasure in simplicity. The 5.11 S+R series A2 and A6 are single mode lights, and the A6 with its forward clicky side switch is a pleasure to use.

Sometimes sophistication and endless features become more of a pain that a benefit, and uber high outputs, fun but rarely practical.

Integrated chargers are definitely of interest to me. The Niteye EYE 30, Nitecore MH series and others using micro USB are very handy.

Multiple power source options are also a favourite of mine. There are many lights that will run on 1V-4.2V, but not all will take different sized cells. The Streamlight Sidewinder Compact II can run on AA or CR123 as specified, but can also run on AAA, RCR123 and 14500 if you are careful.

I was in discussion with Armytek about getting the Predator to also run off AA and AAA (lower modes only) as an emergency backup. This would certainly catch my attention.

The trouble is, that even if this thread generates a few good ideas for the manufacturers to include, once those models are out, we will be back to things slowing down again. After all, a flashlight is only a light, however sophisticated it may be.


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## ven (Mar 3, 2014)

subwoofer said:


> And exactly why CPF is so great :twothumbs
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agree 100% with that,only so many mods,tints,modes,its not like modded rc stuff that seems to be endless,motors,nitro engines,suspension to bodies,gear boxes,diffs...........think i dont need to go on :laughing:

A light is a tool,different purposes/needs for us all..........

But as said,with this site going so long,so many members,something is going right!!!!!!!!!!!

FANTASTIC to me being honest,peeps loose interest,its only natural,then i have seen of late a few "old timers" come back,may have been 5yrs since last post......

:twothumbs


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## orbital (Mar 3, 2014)

+

*Design contest*


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## Monocrom (Mar 3, 2014)

Greta said:


> Raffles are touchy. They can be considered "online gambling" if not done properly... which is where the time consuming part comes in. I have been thinking about it though...



I remember when I got my Olight M20 Warrior for free. Some got them for 50% off, all thanks to an online raffle. It generated quite a bit of buzz and (very likely) revenue for Olight. 

Perhaps another flashlight maker might be interested in getting in on that?


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## H-2 CHARLIE (Mar 3, 2014)

I would put my Stanley fat max up against any other light .. it just my go to outside light , 50 bucks at wallmart


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## yoyoman (Mar 3, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> How about something like an Oscar Awards? Maybe not an Annual thing, but at least once.
> 
> Categories could include nominations for Best Classic Light, Best Inca. Light, Most Complicated U.I., (my personal favorite) Light Most Ahead Of Its Time.
> 
> ...



I like this concept. Instead of people asking which is the BEST light, have them nominate what they think is the BEST light. And I like the categories suggested - Best Classic, Best UI, Best New Light, Best EDC, etc. The threads asking for the BEST light end up as a list of people's favorite lights, but they frequently don't respond to the OP needs and the responses often don't explain why they think that is the BEST light. Turn it around and it could be interesting and productive.

I also like this concept for threads. Which thread do you read or check everyday? Which thread gave the most useful information?


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## RIX TUX (Mar 3, 2014)

H-2 CHARLIE said:


> I would put my Stanley fat max up against any other light .. it just my go to outside light , 50 bucks at wallmart



ok put it in your pocket?


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## markr6 (Mar 3, 2014)

Nichia 219A with 3x the output!!:twothumbs 

And no, triples don't count


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## Bucur (Mar 3, 2014)

The title implies that once upon a time, CPF members were more excited about flashlights than they now are. This may be true for some long-time members but I, as a relatively newer member, am not losing my excitement (yet?). I believe post count is not the best indicator of excitement but the time spent in CPF is. I wish I could contribute as much as the gurus. However, reading them is as exciting as it can be for me. There are excellent reviews and a huge accumulation of knowledge at CPF. Both remain to be very exciting for me. I hope my interest in reading them is also exciting for their authors. 

As far as I can conclude, there must be a correlation between technological progress and the perception of “_excitement_”. There is no doubt that an unprecedented pace of improvements in LED efficiency and battery performance enhances the excitement when it comes to flashlights. This excitement may have boomed the interest to flashlights for a while. But since flashlights do not consist of an emitter and a battery, I believe they will further improve in other dimensions and this will be exciting.

IMHO, flashlights with improved heat transfer and better energy management will not be less exciting than the lumens war. Neither will some design features towards more user friendliness. Today’s flashlights already produce zillion lumens and I am excited by the hope to see them improve upon their brutal power. Contemporary supercars are not that much more powerful than the muscle cars of the 1960’s and 70’s but they are so much more refined and controllable and easier to drive and safer and … so on. Practical daily cars are also much better than their ancestors without being more powerful. To the opposite, they perform better despite being less powerful because they are lighter, more aerodynamic; they have better volume to usable space ratio, etc… And the materials that modern cars are made of are beyond comparison with their ancestors. Yet, 1960’s and 70’s were the boom years of the car industry. 

I expect or hope a similar trend in flashlights. If this happens, CPF will remain to be as exciting as it was the day I joined in and as exciting as it now is. :twothumbs


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## ven (Mar 3, 2014)

THIS IS TO THE POINT-If it wasnt for CPF i would not have been as interested in flashlights,its opened an new world in whats out there.

So CPF has played a huge 98% difference personally..............so CPF for me makes flashlights interesting,when i say CPF its the members:twothumbs as well as the lights i would not have known.............

Wont waffle on more,hope that gets across my personal honest thoughts:thumbsup:


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## kletus (Mar 3, 2014)

Yes I agree if not for CPF flashlights would not be near as interesting. With wal mart & costco selling led lights that would have cost a mint years back the masses have joined the club. While not a snob by any means it was always cool seeing the look on peoples faces who had never seen a real LED light. Esp when I modded my surefire before they offered an LED model. Seeing the new Samsung wearable just released makes me wonder what could be done in the near future. Esp if some serious R&D $ were thrown at it.


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## scout24 (Mar 3, 2014)

One more request. I realize these have been individual requests, not broad-based ideas, but follow me here... Take Zebralight. One of the only major market mass-produced lights I own. How about a Custom Shop? Green or black HA. Give me a choice of pocketclips- the stock chrome one on my SC52 went bye-bye. How about bead blasted Ti? Blackened stainless steel a'la SF or HDS clips? Maybe the same choices for the lens retaining ring and button ring? Charge me a few dollars more for economy of scale, but let me customize the "appearance" of my light like HDS does. A blacked-out SC52 would get pocket time here instead of sitting in the drawer. I love the UI and outputs, hate the appearance other than the body color. Maybe some other manufacturers would step up too? Again, not necessarily a free service, but let me pick from some appearance options... whaddaya think???


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## chaosdsm (Mar 3, 2014)

Just technological advances, more efficient LED's that run brighter, conserve battery life, and run cooler at the same time.

Beyond that, possibly fully programmable color (by wavelengths) LED's to include both visible and invisible color spectrums. 

Oh, and lower costs, especially on those SureFire's


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## ThirstyTurtle (Mar 3, 2014)

moldyoldy said:


> we all have problems with lighting up objects that may be a long ways away, or maybe rather close. yet most available lights have a fixed reflector. eg: Most of us are familiar with the Maglites and their focusing ability and what that beam looks like (yuck). How about a handheld light similar to the Petzel NAO headlamp currently being sold for $175. The price is still high, but the idea is to solve the far/near problem in a handheld light.



This. 

Not an aspheric lens but if we could somehow have a reflectorized light that could be zoomed in and out but have it always be focused. Don't know how that would work, but it would be amazing.


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## ThirstyTurtle (Mar 3, 2014)

How about a phone with a great integrated light? It could still be pure flood maybe but give me like 100 lumens or more with a dedicated button (or at least the option to program a hardware button for that purpose).


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## nbp (Mar 3, 2014)

Ahh, interesting thread Greta, similar in theme to one I had posted some weeks ago. I am following this one with great interest as well.  

I may have some things to add as well along the way. One point for now: I fully agree with Scout24 (I think it was) who said some GAWs would be nice. Those used to be somewhat regular, and they really fostered a sense of community and comaraderie among members. We got to spend time just shootin' the breeze with each other, joking and having fun as we waited for the results, and also gave us an opportunity to support CPF together in a fun way. Those types of events and threads helped keep the CPF spirit alive and I would love to see things like that again from time to time.


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## callmaster (Mar 3, 2014)

I'm a simple man, I've been away for a while. I come home (cpf) to find out my favourite HDS is at 250 lumens now. 170 lumens is still more than enough but it's great to see. It's one of the best lights ever and I carry three as my EDC so I'm going to need one or two to replace my older ones.

My elephant 2 from Mac was made with P7 emitters and I find out I can have upgrade em to XM-L2 emitters so that's pretty exciting. It's going to be insane after it's upgraded. I can't wait for that.

And then there's the MM15vn that I'm interested in, 2 x MT-G2 goodness in a very small package. Great turbo, multiple modes and amazing runtime.

Also, I discovered Elzetta. What a fabulously tough light! I'm definitely going to get the single cell, 2 cell and 3 cell version eventually. 

Malkoff Wildcat is now fitted with the MT-G2. Can't wait for it to get back in stock. Might just hold off on this purchase because of the MM15vn but it's an amazing light all the time. 

Not to mention that battery and draw capacity has improved quite abit since I last bought batteries.Some pretty great chargers available too.

Lots to be excited about for someone out of the game so long


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## jtr1962 (Mar 4, 2014)

My interests here have tended to lean more towards fixed lighting than flashlights. Flashlights and other portable lighting were early adopters of LEDs because for these uses they were superior in every metric. The minor drawbacks of poor CRI and poor tint have long been solved. There's probably not much to look forward to in the emitter category other than ever lower prices and marginally increasing efficiency. We've reached the point where we won't get much brighter lights due to efficiency increases because at this point it's the current state of battery technology rather than emitter efficiency which is holding us back. Sure, we can get upwards of 500 lumens in a AA light but not much more. It's not for lack of decent emitters, either. We have emitters which can deliver 1000+ lumens at >120 lm/W. We could probably get over 1000 lumens in a AA form factor without serious heat issues right now if not for the limitations of battery technology and electronics. At such a high output, you might be pulling 10 amps from a AA cell. Few cells can tolerate this, and none can do so for more than maybe 7 or 8 minutes. Drivers aren't up to the task either dealing with very high currents in very small form factors (although I think they will be within about 5 years). Bottom line is we need better batteries-much better batteries. I'm hoping we have something with about 10 or 20 watt-hours in a AA form factor eventually.

Fixed lighting on the other hand doesn't have such limitations. As a result, this is where all the action is these days. CPF still holds my interest, or at least the fixed lighting section does. LEDs are just starting to take over fixed lighting the way they started taking over portable lighting maybe about 10 years ago. Nowadays probably 95% of what is on store shelves in the portable lighting department uses LEDs. In ten years the same will be true of general lighting. I think we'll soon start seeing a lot more cool, purpose-built LED lighting fixtures for residential use. The excitement is still there, but just not in portable lighting any more.


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## jtr1962 (Mar 4, 2014)

callmaster said:


> Not to mention that battery and draw capacity has improved quite abit since I last bought batteries.Some pretty great chargers available too.
> 
> Lots to be excited about for someone out of the game so long


Batteries have indeed improved although most of the reason we have small, bright lights is because of improvements in emitter technology. Emitters went from 15 to 20 lm/W (no better than many types of incandescent) to 160 lm/W. This is a ten-fold increase. Batteries have improved roughly four-fold in the same time (i.e. we went from 600 mAh NiCad AAs to 2500 mAh NiMH AAs). Combined these improvements have resulted in either 40 times more light, 40 times more runtime, or some combination of both for a light of the same form factor. Going forward, any major improvements will need to come in the battery department because at this point I'm skeptical we'll even double emitter efficiency over what we have now. We're bumping up against hard theoretical limits. For batteries, there are of course also limits, but there are many new, promising chemistries which could in theory allow us a ten fold increase or more in battery capacity.


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## callmaster (Mar 4, 2014)

jtr1962 said:


> My interests here have tended to lean more towards fixed lighting than flashlights. Flashlights and other portable lighting were early adopters of LEDs because for these uses they were superior in every metric. The minor drawbacks of poor CRI and poor tint have long been solved. There's probably not much to look forward to in the emitter category other than ever lower prices and marginally increasing efficiency. We've reached the point where we won't get much brighter lights due to efficiency increases because at this point it's the current state of battery technology rather than emitter efficiency which is holding us back. Sure, we can get upwards of 500 lumens in a AA light but not much more. It's not for lack of decent emitters, either. We have emitters which can deliver 1000+ lumens at >120 lm/W. We could probably get over 1000 lumens in a AA form factor without serious heat issues right now if not for the limitations of battery technology and electronics. At such a high output, you might be pulling 10 amps from a AA cell. Few cells can tolerate this, and none can do so for more than maybe 7 or 8 minutes. Drivers aren't up to the task either dealing with very high currents in very small form factors (although I think they will be within about 5 years). Bottom line is we need better batteries-much better batteries. I'm hoping we have something with about 10 or 20 watt-hours in a AA form factor eventually.
> 
> Fixed lighting on the other hand doesn't have such limitations. As a result, this is where all the action is these days. CPF still holds my interest, or at least the fixed lighting section does. LEDs are just starting to take over fixed lighting the way they started taking over portable lighting maybe about 10 years ago. Nowadays probably 95% of what is on store shelves in the portable lighting department uses LEDs. In ten years the same will be true of general lighting. I think we'll soon start seeing a lot more cool, purpose-built LED lighting fixtures for residential use. The excitement is still there, but just not in portable lighting any more.



This is true. I have been involved in setting up LED lighting fixtures in my parents place, mostly the kitchen so far but it's been a great experience.


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## Steve K (Mar 4, 2014)

Since JTR opened the discussion beyond flashlights, I'll admit that I've got just a few flashlights. My primary interests are in bicycle lighting and fixed lighting. Those have both seen huge improvements in the last decade, and consequently, reduced the motiviation for hobbyists to build their own. That's not a bad thing, but it does take some of the fun out of it. 

I do still have a few bike light projects waiting for some spare time, and it's still fun. Part of the reason is that well built bike lights are still relatively expensive compared to flashlights with similar specs.


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## Monocrom (Mar 4, 2014)

Steve K said:


> Since JTR opened the discussion beyond flashlights, I'll admit that I've got just a few flashlights. My primary interests are in bicycle lighting and fixed lighting. Those have both seen huge improvements in the last decade, and consequently, reduced the motiviation for hobbyists to build their own. That's not a bad thing, but it does take some of the fun out of it.
> 
> I do still have a few bike light projects waiting for some spare time, and it's still fun. Part of the reason is that well built bike lights are still relatively expensive compared to flashlights with similar specs.



Saturation in all aspects of light-use has become an issue. Even with bicycle lights.... If I needed one, I'd just buy the dedicated one Fenix offers.


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## Zandar (Mar 4, 2014)

Has no one here seen the MBI company threads? This one tiny company, run by one man known only as "TGWNN", is all about one flashoholic making lights that flashoholics want. Through the MBI threads He actively solicits input from everyone in the design and evolution of His lights. Everyone that posts in His threads becomes a member of what we call "The Tribe" and is encouraged to come up with any suggestion on how to improve His lights. If your looking for lights with options this is the place to be, as almost any light can be fully customized by "GUY" to your taste. And His lights are affordable for just about everyone. So if your looking for some excitement please come on over and visit with us, read up on "GUY'S" various projects and feel free to ask any questions


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## Labrador72 (Mar 5, 2014)

Stress_Test said:


> Glad to see I'm not the only one. The Fenix TK10, TK11, and TK20 were probably my favorite interface. Two modes only high and low, impossible to accidentally switch while turning the light on and off. *The TK12 and TK30 were clever ways to add another mode "set" based on turning the head, which still kept the switch totally independent. These are probably some of my favorite lights.
> 
> Now Fenix has gone completely the opposite direction with all the multimode switches. That one monstrosity has something like FIVE different buttons on it!
> 
> That's been one thing keeping me out of new lights. Most of what I see with all the "features" fall further and further into the "toy" category and not the "tool" category.*



I couldn't agree more even if I tried!


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## yoyoman (Mar 7, 2014)

I've been reading the threads, including the new one, about the new Malkoff Wildcat. Some members are very, very excited - a new emitter, ledil reflector instead of a diffused lens. You can feel their excitement and practically see them jumping up and down. Other members are not excited at all. They're happy with their old Wildcat and the changes don't interest them, which is fine and not intended as a criticism. To state the obvious: it isn't easy to get everyone excited and it will take a combination of things to generate widespread excitement. As someone said in nbp's similar thread, you can't make people post more interesting threads just by demanding them to be interesting. The glass is still half full for me. I find and participate in threads that interest me and I continue to buy lights that excite me. I try to be interesting and helpful and I hope I express my excitement in appropriate ways.


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## ven (Mar 7, 2014)

I would like different options regarding head(along with leds)

I mentioned before about the tm lights so will use that.

For example,you buy a tm11 light,why not sell tm15/tm26/tm36 heads,so can inter change as have a compatible body.Similar principles could apply for other brands,maybe fenix,olight etc too.Just thoughts,that way you can have best of both worlds,choice of changing the heads(or swapping the body :laughing: )

Makes the light more versatile too........


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## Monocrom (Mar 7, 2014)

ven said:


> What head are we talking about?



Headlamps, and bezels. Next question!


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## ven (Mar 7, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> Headlamps, and bezels. Next question!




Here was me thinking on his shoulders......:laughing:

I find zoom options handy on my head lamps.


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## fridgemagnet (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm new, so I'm still excited about flashlights - tho I hope all will cool down before I spend way too much...
Learning how these things work would be nice, for a beginner like me, anyway.
I would like to see manufacturers of emitters (and flashlights) focusing more on quality of light/tint, and runtime, as well as focusing on output.
Plus an extension tube for the Sc52, for 2xAA - like the Olight S15. Maybe even some 3xAA flashlights, to make the most of these eneloops.


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## ven (Mar 8, 2014)

So fridgmagnet,in other words more options in customising models,like "lego-ing" and i think that would be a great idea,making lights more versatile and changeable for the consumer:thumbsup:


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## invisible_kid (Mar 8, 2014)

I'm new as well but I do plan on sticking around. Though I'm not clued up on the flash light community I think battery improvement needs to jump. I'm really into technology and not just in phones but people are very limited in what can be done. Batteries have been left behind in the last 5 years and havnt caught up. Can you imagine if your smart phone lasted a week like old mobiles Without charging. I know companies are catching on and some innovations are in the pipeline but these are at least 5 years away. Too little too late.


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## MBentz (Mar 8, 2014)

Seems like we are about to see a proliferation of lights that can be plugged in to USB ports. I'd love to see a light that could be programmed via some simple software. No crazy amount of double clicks, triple clicks and head turning to program a light... just some mouse clicks. No idea if this is feasible or not.


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## Monocrom (Mar 8, 2014)

I think something like that will be feasible down the road, in the near future. Not quite there though.


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## MBentz (Mar 8, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> I think something like that will be feasible down the road, in the near future. Not quite there though.



It would be nice. You can completely tailor the light to your wants and needs. Make it as simple as you want, or put in 20 different lumen levels if wanted.

Some day.


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## Rafael Jimenez (Mar 8, 2014)

My first "real" flashlight was a Varapower turboV2. Wow! very impresive. After that it was the Malkoff hound dog, and the Wildcat plus the small MD2. All great lights. I found a TM11 here in the CPF classified's for 90.00 in like new cond. it has impressive runtimes.

I don't have interest in another light (maybe a HDS 250 lumen?) with these super great well made lights, and would never sell or trade any of them. 

The thing that can excite me is a hand made super durable lifetime warranty rechargeable light with good runtimes. I'm a Veterinarian and sometimes I drive on isolated dirt roads late at night, far from civilization, so a dependable light can keep me safe. Once, late at night my pickup headlights failed, I got back to the city thanks to the TM11 at 500 lumens in one hand and the other hand on the wheel.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 12, 2014)

You know what would really get me excited about flashlights (at least the production ones) is a new programming interface. There are some very creative schemes out there that work along with just a single button but they can get complicated and require looking at a reference sheet when trying to do. People have mentioned USB from time to time and it is always met with the same concerns: too much additional hardware, would reduce the durability of the light in terms of weather protection.

What about bluetooth? Micro sized technology is out there. There are tablet pens that are no thicker than most AAA sized lights that have bluetooth connectivity to tablets. Imagine a bluetooth chipset embedded in a flashlight that you could link to your PC, tablet or phone and just pop open an app and program away. That would definitely get me excited.


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## Greta (Mar 12, 2014)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> You know what would really get me excited about flashlights (at least the production ones) is a new programming interface. There are some very creative schemes out there that work along with just a single button but they can get complicated and require looking at a reference sheet when trying to do. People have mentioned USB from time to time and it is always met with the same concerns: too much additional hardware, would reduce the durability of the light in terms of weather protection.
> 
> What about bluetooth? Micro sized technology is out there. There are tablet pens that are no thicker than most AAA sized lights that have bluetooth connectivity to tablets. Imagine a bluetooth chipset embedded in a flashlight that you could link to your PC, tablet or phone and just pop open an app and program away. That would definitely get me excited.



I'll admit... that would be kinda neat... :thumbsup:


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## idleprocess (Mar 12, 2014)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> You know what would really get me excited about flashlights (at least the production ones) is a new programming interface. There are some very creative schemes out there that work along with just a single button but they can get complicated and require looking at a reference sheet when trying to do. People have mentioned USB from time to time and it is always met with the same concerns: too much additional hardware, would reduce the durability of the light in terms of weather protection.
> 
> What about bluetooth? Micro sized technology is out there. There are tablet pens that are no thicker than most AAA sized lights that have bluetooth connectivity to tablets. Imagine a bluetooth chipset embedded in a flashlight that you could link to your PC, tablet or phone and just pop open an app and program away. That would definitely get me excited.



I think 4Sevens demonstrated some prototype designs that had bluetooth connectivity about a year ago. They weren't uber-programmable, but had some interesting smartphone interaction features.

It's worth mentioning that bluetooth is arguably another level of complexity over USB.


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## Samlittle (Mar 13, 2014)

MBentz said:


> It would be nice. You can completely tailor the light to your wants and needs. Make it as simple as you want, or put in 20 different lumen levels if wanted.
> 
> Some day.



This idea has my vote too. I'm in my first 180 days with CPF and already spending more time here than I ever expected. Strategizing and budgeting for my next purchases - none of which I need :shakehead . Recently bought an X40vn which is awesome but also comes with limitations regards the UI and general purpose use. It is a superior light but I am still looking for the next - Yikes! Most of you all are so far beyond my understanding in the light world that boredom isn't the issue as much as that I just get glazed over. This is my deficiency - not CPFs. I love the detailed reviews and was drawn to the light of CPF by those.

As for what I would like to see in flashlight technology that would get me excited ?

1) the programmable option already mentioned

2) I really want to find an LED that has a trigger switch. I posted about this yesterday in the "Recommend Me a Light For…" forum. I really don't like the clickies. I have an old Thor/Cyclops Sirius light that has a trigger switch that can be locked on but otherwise can be left so that you just pull the trigger and you have light - for a second or whatever you need. You let go and the light is off. Never any need to feel around. This makes a perfect night stand light but great for night walking or signaling. This to me is a great UI. In the case of the Cyclops it works especially well because the light has 2 modes of brightness. Select one and pull the trigger, as simple as that.

3) A huge improvement over the tail click light with 4 or 5 modes is if the light has mode indicators. The Fenix TK76 is an over featured light with lots of buttons (still you've got to give Fenix credit for stepping outside the design box) BUT I really like that you can tell what mode you have selected by the light bars. I have an Fenix TK21 that could be a great little light but it is a 4 mode click light that requires counting or you fall off the edge of bright and down into the moonlight mode. Well at least I do :candle: - not too swift. Anyway - the lighted mode indicator would be a very useful feature. Nothing tactical about having little lights showing all the time but likewise nothing tactical about needing to click on your light extra times to find the brightness level you want.

4) Funny - I don't even know why I care about all this but I find good technology compelling. Add great function and make it somewhat affordable and hand held and I'm hooked. Easy gratification. I do wonder how long I can hang out in CPF before I will start to think that I've seen it all. 

As for lights that can use different batteries and in the "_for what it's worth dept_."- I don't know about others but the Fenix TK21 can use two 3VCR123As or one 18650 Li-ion rechargeable. Very handy.

Thanks CPF and company. I'm glad to have found you.


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## markr6 (Mar 13, 2014)

More "fun" must-have flashlights like the L3 Illumination L10. Not so expensive, small, something extra to offer like Nichia 219 emitter. These types of lights are fun to try out and handy to keep around given the price. Jake even has a poll going in CPFMP about what we'd like to see in the next light. I would like to see more manufacturers like this thinking of new ideas that won't wipe out half of a paycheck!


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## Anonnn (Mar 13, 2014)

I want to see a really well-built, small, AA EDC light that has a stun gun built into the bezel. I know there are a few lights out there that have the stun gun capability, but I want to see one made with superior quality in mind. I think it needs to be small enough to use as an EDC light just so that it will always be on your person. The AA requirement stems from my desire for it to be both accessible in any locality and cheap to maintain (using rechargeable batteries). 

I think this light needs to be made because so many people out there carry a flashlight because they think of it as giving them some level of protection. This light would really add to whatever sense of security their current flashlight gives them.


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## StarHalo (Mar 13, 2014)

CPF Live: A live feed that you can leave open in a window/tab that shows new posts anywhere on the forum as timestamped post titles with the first ~140 characters, displayed as an auto-updating time-descending list, like a newsfeed.


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## Kestrel (Mar 13, 2014)

Interesting reading.

----------------------


Monocrom said:


> [...] Also, some of the old regulars either left or their personalities did a 180. Leaving I can somewhat understand. I miss those guys. The LED Museum, DHart (who now only stops by once in a rare while), 65535, Goatee (whose user-name was literally keyboard characters that spelled out a face wearing a goatee and winking at us). And the rest of the guys. And DM51 too. [...]


This is one difficult aspect - speaking for myself, when I see fewer of the people who 'enlightened me' (Mdocod, greenLED, Patriot, Sgt.LED, & angelofwar for examples) around, I have less people that I know whom I can talk to.
Which makes me value the newer die-hards a bit more (nbp & jamesmtl514 for example :wave
(BTW DHart is alive and well over at RimfireCentral. )

----------------------

I think that with all the advances in LiIon rechargeables, the lack of improvements (both with regards to cost / watt-hour and the ability to deliver high wattages) in primaries has been disappointing.

The folks I have spoken to outside of CPF who are simply not interested in rechargeables aren't being brought into 'the fold' - many of the newest flashlight tech advances aren't spilling down to the CR123 & AA market.

Back in the day we'd get top performance and adequate runtimes from an LED light fueled with a single CR123 - because LED's couldn't take high currents.
With the advancements in other flashlight aspects over the past few years, CR123's just haven't kept up.
And don't get me started on how Eneloops should have revolutionized the non-flashaholic public but haven't ...


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## Z-Tab (Mar 13, 2014)

The flashlight that I have used most over the past few months is the... Surefire 2211.

It's a weird light that turns out to be very fun and enjoyable to use. It doesn't take a variety of battery chemistries, you can't even change the battery yourself. Plus, it's much too expensive at retail. But it offers a unique user experience that isn't offered on a single other light out there.

I think the idea of modularity and upgradability is great, but pretty well explored through the thousands (millions/billions?) of P60 lego options available. I want to see more lights that use prismatic/pouch cell LiIons, integrated USB charging, and non-cylidrical bodies. I'm not sure that we're going to see emitter technology offer much new for a while, especially in ways that are actually going to matter to the average flashlight user, but the flashlight industry has almost exclusively based itself on cylindrical and button cell batteries. 

I would also like to see some more lights designed specifically as "emergency lights," especially since that is one of the most frequently asked about categories (maybe second to 5,000 Lumen monsters that cost <$50). The Surefire Hurricane Light has been discontinued for years, but remains the only mass produced example of that sort of light that I can think of. Why isn't there a light designed to take ANY battery and put out a useful flood? 

Anyway... these are just some random thoughts on lights that would be interesting to see. I'm still a sucker for crazy bright lights and I've yet to find myself without some light that I want to try out.


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## Monocrom (Mar 13, 2014)

Kestrel said:


> Interesting reading.
> 
> ----------------------
> 
> ...



Hey! Good to hear that Dhart is still active. (If not on CPF than at least on another site.)

It is though unfortunate that I was able to name several Old Timers who left, but the new die-hards are just few and (it seems to me) far between. While I admire their level of dedication to this hobby, I have noticed that a few are slow to recognize the family friendly nature and tone of CPF. (Just something I've noticed. And I hope I'm wrong regarding that observation.)

The general public tends to excel best in their collective ignorance of many subjects. They have no clue that alkalines represent not just outdated but horribly poor technology in the first place. But they're cheap. Don't require a charger. Don't require waiting to have a full charged battery in hand. So, no surprise that alkalines will be around for decades to come.


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## bshanahan14rulz (Mar 13, 2014)

Reflectors and optics are precision optics. Yet, there is usually nothing physical to tell you that you are more or less in-line. We just have to approximate infinity with as long of a distance as we have access to to focus reflectors and optics, and even then, you often end up with the bowtie beam effect.

I second the want for more LiPoly prismatic lights. These would need to have their own built-in charging and safety circuits, which I would think is better than relying on the end user to choose the batteries and charger of their choice. This way, more performance lights could make it into the hands of the uninformed public, while hopefully being every bit as safe as any other consumer device powered by Li-ion.

Remote phosphor would be nice if we could get it in other substrates besides plastic

Custom, acceptable quality TIR. 'nuff sed.

Whatever happened to quantum dots? ;-)


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## nbp (Mar 13, 2014)

Cheers Kestrel. Glad to see you around too.  :buddies:


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## smokinbasser (Mar 13, 2014)

If I see Fenix or 47s introduce a new model the 1st thing I do is see what day of the month it is then see if my bills are paid up to date. I have Surefires sitting all over the house that do the tasks needed but I might give them to family members I think might need and use a good light. IMO Surefires are rugged but not insanely bright.


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## Greta (Mar 15, 2014)

So something kind of interesting (to me at least!) has come up in this thread. I went into this thinking the flashlight industry has gone flat and we're all kinda bored with it all - it's nothing like the good old days! But then a few members chimed in - they are new to it all. And it's ALL exciting! Sure, these members weren't around when the ARC came on the scene and when LED's were the Holy Grail... when us "old-timers" first discovered that the 3D Mag was really shite when it comes to illuminating something. I'll never forget when a few of us went to a cave over in CA and our tour guide lit up a part of the cave with his Mag. Of course we all took out our very cool LED lights and actually showed him parts of the cave he'd never seen before - even though he'd been doing tours there for some 7+ years...  THAT'S exciting!! 

So many of us have "BTDT" but there are still many who have not. Sadly we are not very indulgent of them. We roll our eyes and look down on them and act like that computer nerd on SNL who had no tolerance for anyone who didn't know anything about computers. (Anyone remember that character? "Move!"  ) Maybe those of us who are "bored" can find new excitement through the eyes of those who are just discovering all of the wonders of REAL flashlights? Anyone who has ever watched a child discover something new can understand what I'm saying. The wonder and joy is nothing short of a drink from the Fountain of Youth. We see things through fresh young eyes and feel the excitement again and if we're truly blessed we get to add to that wonder and joy by offering up knowledge.

I agree it is a bit frustrating when we make an attempt to guide a newcomer through the discovery process and they don't even bother to acknowledge your attempt. Hit and run - they got what they wanted and don't care about anything else. The word is "RUDE". And unfortunately it makes us rude cuz we just don't feel like making the effort anymore if no one really cares. I don't have the answers... but I suspect they are somewhere in these ramblings. Perhaps it's not so much that the industry needs to make things exciting again... perhaps it's up to us to somehow make it exciting again by rediscovery through the eyes of those who haven't yet seen all the light...


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## orbital (Mar 15, 2014)

^

Post # 1 by nbp, in so many words, agrees* => here



* I think


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 15, 2014)

Greta - I have to agree with you. I see so many threads started by noobs with questions and the only responses they get are why don't you go search the thousand other threads that have already talked about this. But that right there stymies creativity and learning. If someone asks a question, answer it, and maybe a whole new conversation will come out of it that wasn't covered in those thousand other threads. It get's really boring all you have is old threads to search through.


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## idleprocess (Mar 15, 2014)

Greta said:


> So something kind of interesting (to me at least!) has come up in this thread. I went into this thinking the flashlight industry has gone flat and we're all kinda bored with it all - it's nothing like the good old days! But then a few members chimed in - they are new to it all. And it's ALL exciting!


The joy of discovery of any given thing happens at varying points in time for all of us.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 15, 2014)

idleprocess said:


> The joy of discovery of any given thing happens at varying points in time for all of us.



I remember being new and it was all so big and exciting here. I kept seeing "just get a P60 drop-in" or "just get a D26 drop-in" and I had NO IDEA what the heck people were talking about. It took me months to figure it all out and understand the ins and outs of it all. Then I made a few for myself and it was exciting. Now - is it exciting - not so much. P60/D26 drop-ins are cool but they've become a common place things to me.

I think the only progression once you get bored with production is to go to custom and mods. I got excited when Don released the Aqua line, I got excited when I discovered Jeff Hankos work, I got excited when I heard that a Tri-V2 was going to be release (that excitement carried me near 2 years until they were done).

Something that detracts away from the excitement of posting in the conversation threads here is not that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but that there is always that one person that has to argue your opinion is wrong and just make the thread difficult. It's sorta like the cool vs. neutral threads from 2-3 years ago. Every time you want to have a discussion with people who enjoy neutral tints there would that person that just has to jump on about how all we really need is another thread about neutral tints and knock them and such.

So, one thing that would excite me would to be able to participate in discussion threads where I just just enjoy participating in a conversation without people trolling around or getting bashed.


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## MBentz (Mar 15, 2014)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> Greta - I have to agree with you. I see so many threads started by noobs with questions and the only responses they get are why don't you go search the thousand other threads that have already talked about this. But that right there stymies creativity and learning. If someone asks a question, answer it, and maybe a whole new conversation will come out of it that wasn't covered in those thousand other threads. It get's really boring all you have is old threads to search through.



I think it's partly that, but at the same time people can only answer the same question so many times before getting frustrated. A simple Google search can answer the majority of questions asked by newbies.

I think another issue is when a new member comes in asking for a light with certain qualities in mind, and people reply by encouraging them to spend more money on something they were not originally looking for. That has really been frustrating me lately for some reason.


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## ven (Mar 15, 2014)

I agree,happens on most(maybe all forums) with the hit and run.Can be frustrating if time and especially if YOU do the research for them that they could have done in YOUR time..........However i look at it like this,its easy to say "use the search" pretty much everything is covered but also does not bring fresh posts in,all be it repetitive.Although inexperienced to many............ok most:nana: i will still give up time,even though i may have answered the same question 5 times in a month.The friendly answer helps not scare newbies away,no intimidating responses,sometimes a bit too the point.

Everyone has their own views,imho i am not right or wrong,just mine,will give up time and will continue to help where i can.

After all its the least i can do as its you guys that have kept me coming back......................*cough* and spending my money

I do agree at times it should be a little less serious(exl safety) and a little more fun.

Either way its kept my interest and its still growing............thank you!


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## Monocrom (Mar 15, 2014)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> If someone asks a question, answer it, and maybe a whole new conversation will come out of it that wasn't covered in those thousand other threads.



Thing is, that never happens. And that's coming from a regular who keeps answering the very same questions from new members over and over and over and over and over, again.

It never leads to anything new that honestly hasn't been covered thousands of times before in similar, older, topics. Sadly, I can see and understand why so many older members get annoyed and post "Just use the search function." I still answer the same old questions by new members. But honestly, I do it knowing full well it's not going to lead to any sort of new perspective or conversation.


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## Samlittle (Mar 15, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> Thing is, that never happens. And that's coming from a regular who keeps answering the very same questions from new members over and over and over and over and over, again.
> 
> It never leads to anything new that honestly hasn't been covered thousands of times before in similar, older, topics. Sadly, I can see and understand why so many older members get annoyed and post "Just use the search function." I still answer the same old questions by new members. But honestly, I do it knowing full well it's not going to lead to any sort of new perspective or conversation.



Well coming from other forums where I am one of the "experts" compared to here where I am still deeply in the dark, I admit that it is easy to become bored and/or impatient with questions 101. However if I try to answer a question that has been responded to in detail soooo many times before (rather than just waiting for someone else to take a turn) I at least find a few links to the appropriate older thread to direct the OP specifically. Often it is easier for me because I know what the real questions is that can result in a productive search.

Here on CPF I know I have asked some pitiful questions but I usually say in my post that I will be happy to be directed to a thread or 2 that have already dealt with my question. I think that leading a newbie to a thread opens up the discussion and reminds us all that we were once just learning, and it teaches without dismissing. That's one way to keep CPF more interesting and as a forum to return to for seekers of the light  - sorry - couldn't resist.


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## HarryN (Mar 16, 2014)

I still take a look at CPF occasionally, but not as often as I once did.

There seems to be a continuous stream of new users coming into the forum, and that is a good thing. As the new users gain experience, there is no reason why a person with 3K responses, like myself, should interfere with the perfectly capable answers from someone with 100 - 200 responses, unless I can really add something significant. Since hardly anyone says "Thank you", that also does not make anyone feel like it was worth their time either.

Personally, I think splitting the battery and electronics section into two pieces, and forcing questions into specific sub forums would help. This would help bring some order to the questions about "drivers" vs. "batteries".

Since so many of the questions are repeats "what is the best battery", it appears that somehow that information is either still not obvious enough, or perhaps we could help point new users to the right thread instead of each person opening a new one.

As a practical matter, it would help if people read a few data sheets and they would find the information in them.

For me, I am reading more about fixed lighting anymore, as it is closer to my own goals.

Nonetheless, I like visiting CPF, just not every day like I once did.


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## orbital (Mar 17, 2014)

+

*People using the Search function also helps Mods. not have to merge threads.*
..then Mods. can do the Mod. stuff they do



***Please use the Search function & then add to the conversation in *existing* threads***


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## markr6 (Mar 17, 2014)

Seeing less than 8,938 new threads per day for "best 18650 battery" or "charger for 18650" or "need new AA EDC" or "best 1xAAA keychain light" would help!


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## KC2IXE (Mar 18, 2014)

I really don't know. Heck, I still carry an EDC-60, and still have an ARC-lS 1 in my backpack, and a zebralight head light.
I guess Maybe something that exists - a small (say ARC AA sized - or ARC-AAA) (yes, I know, showing my age) with a SIMPLE interface (like click on/off, or twist - nothing else) circa 40 lums (I almost never use the EDC 60 in turbo) with a warm high CRI LED, in a finish that doesn't get all beat up

I guess something like a stainless zebralight, but straight, and built to be run over with a tank


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## Anonnn (Mar 18, 2014)

A single AA Lumamax.


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## REDLINEVUE (Mar 19, 2014)

Okay, first let me say, pardon my poor photoshop skills (or lack there of) but.... What I want is a AA size battery / light which you can use in other lights or devices which backs up as an emergency light on its own!... maybe 1-3 lumens and have the POS terminal be the push button to activate and the NEG terminal the lens. It would look something like this (emitter/reflector stolen from 4sevens Atom AAA).







How cool to have these in a radio or flashlight.... just use the battery til near depleted as you normally would but in an emergency you could pull it out of the host device and allow the 1-3 lumen emitter to draw every last drop out of the cell. OR - simply use it as a regular low lumen light and then just drop it into the charger when done.


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## nbp (Mar 19, 2014)

That's actually a really creative idea! I have no idea how that would work exactly, but if someone could make them, that would be super cool. :thumbsup:


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## Kingfisher (Mar 19, 2014)

Better AA lights would get me excited.


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## REDLINEVUE (Mar 19, 2014)

nbp said:


> That's actually a really creative idea! I have no idea how that would work exactly, but if someone could make them, that would be super cool. :thumbsup:



Thanks... Me neither, Im sure there would need to be a slightly wider rim around the neg side so it could make contact with the charger but still you get the idea from the image.

BTW, I expect a free prototype for "testing" if anyone uses this idea!!


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## reppans (Mar 24, 2014)

A fully programmable (AA/CRAA/14500) EDC light..... eg, a 0.9-4.2v HDS


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## Kestrel (Mar 24, 2014)

REDLINEVUE said:


> [...] How cool to have these in a radio or flashlight.... just use the battery til near depleted as you normally would but in an emergency you could pull it out of the host device and allow the 1-3 lumen emitter to draw every last drop out of the cell. OR - simply use it as a regular low lumen light and then just drop it into the charger when done.





nbp said:


> That's actually a really creative idea! I have no idea how that would work exactly, but if someone could make them, that would be super cool. :thumbsup:


I think that one possible implementation would be to integrate an LED function into the protection circuit of a LiIon 18650.
When the low-voltage protection circuit triggers, instead of simply interrupting the circuit it instead routes a couple mA to an integrated 3mm LED.
Your cells would even "self-illuminate" during 'dark' battery changes of your primary light.


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## nbp (Mar 24, 2014)

That would be a must have around here I think. Self illuminating batteries?! How cool would that be. oo:


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## ElectronGuru (Apr 1, 2014)

StarHalo said:


> CPF Live: A live feed that you can leave open in a window/tab that shows new posts anywhere on the forum as timestamped post titles with the first ~140 characters, displayed as an auto-updating time-descending list, like a newsfeed.



Not really a feed, but Tapatalk has a function where you can subscribe to a category and receive popups for any new thread in that category.

OT, there are two kinds of new. There is new to existence and there is new to availability. In the case of the latter, CPF is like a well stocked library, a victim of its own success. If the information were wiped out tomorrow there would lots to do, all kinds of things to teach and learn. The information would only be in our heads so there would be lots for our heads to do. But because it's already out there, newbies need less of a creative force or even people with good memories, than they do just a good librarian.

My whole life, there are two things I always end up doing. Translating (helping people understand) and building. But if it's all been built and understood, what is there left to do? The Internet is about connections and connecting. The period when LEDs were new was also within the period when connecting itself was new. So what was once a simultaneous onslaught of new communication and technological developments has quieted down to a series of linear market improvements. The channels are all built up to deliver news and new news isn't coming fast enough to fill them.

Had LEDs existed 30 years ago, we would have read about it in technical magazines. One of us would draw out a new schematic, another would publish it in a special section and the rest of us would be waiting by our mailboxes for the latest issue to arrive. In the transition from then to now, we adjusted to the new speed of change. But at that new rate, we are also chewing faster through the developments we do have, so we have less time to enjoy them. So now we are at a cross roads. Do we adjust back down to slower developments or will we find more and larger developments to keep the buzz going?


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## BVH (Apr 1, 2014)

Greta, I'm sure you've seen this but since I didn't see it mentioned in this thread, thought I bring it up with regard to jewelery/wearable flashlights.

The Core Ti: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...itanium-Flashlight-Pendant-(work-in-progress)

My niche on CPF is somewhat small, HID and Short Arcs but I still find it every bit as interesting and fun today as when I joined in 04. I do keep an eye out in the LED section for something to replace my aging 4-7's Mini123 but nothing has hit the sweet spot for me

Any possibility of raising the max photo 800x600 reso to 1024x768 or 1200x900 or so. Many of our beam shots lose a lot of detail being reduced to 800 x600. (Or it is 800x800?)


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## Steve K (Apr 1, 2014)

ElectronGuru said:


> Had LEDs existed 30 years ago, we would have read about it in technical magazines. One of us would draw out a new schematic, another would publish it in a special section and the rest of us would be waiting by our mailboxes for the latest issue to arrive. In the transition from then to now, we adjusted to the new speed of change. But at that new rate, we are also chewing faster through the developments we do have, so we have less time to enjoy them. So now we are at a cross roads. Do we adjust back down to slower developments or will we find more and larger developments to keep the buzz going?



I hate to break the news, but LEDs did exist 30 years ago and I was playing with them then. Granted, the choice was red, yellow, or green, and they were all small indicator type LEDs, but they were still handy. In fact, they formed the display for my TI calculator!

I should add that IR LEDs were available too. As a EE student, I built a little "electric eye" gadget that toggled AC power to an outlet when the IR beam was broken.


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## idleprocess (Apr 1, 2014)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> I remember being new and it was all so big and exciting here. I kept seeing "just get a P60 drop-in" or "just get a D26 drop-in" and I had NO IDEA what the heck people were talking about. It took me months to figure it all out and understand the ins and outs of it all.





MBentz said:


> A simple Google search can answer the majority of questions asked by newbies.





orbital said:


> *People using the Search function also helps Mods. not have to merge threads.*





markr6 said:


> Seeing less than 8,938 new threads per day for "best 18650 battery" or "charger for 18650" or "need new AA EDC" or "best 1xAAA keychain light" would help!


_Just search the forums_...

If I'm seasoned in a subject area and need to extract some tidbit of information that I forgot/don't know/never learned, then searching a messageboard or search engine is expedient and efficient. If I need to learn commonly-related related tidbits, it takes longer but isn't unreasonable. If I need to learn not commonly-related tidbits, it's really hit or miss. 

If I need to spend many hours _learn a subject_ in order to do some small thing - especially when I don't know the terminology - then I will risk the ire of regulars by asking the question directly. Yeah, it might have been done before on page 3 of the particular forum, but I probably don't know that even if I scrolled past it going all the way to page 5. If I know "ballasts" from the AC mains-powered lighting world and get frustrated searching for a LED ballast not knowing that they're commonly referred to as "drivers", I'll probably just ask.



If we're seeing the same X questions asked regularly by people who are new or don't know the subject very well, perhaps we should consider *articles* maintained by the community rather than forcing people to wade through the ego, opinion, disinformation, errors, and off-topic material that clutters any thread on a subject. Care and feeding of the common protected 18650, what accessories are known to be compatible with the Surefire G2, what kinds of cells can I use with my Fenix L1D ... seems like something we could reasonably maintain with some degree of curation to avoid wiki edit wars and other shenanigans.


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## bmstrong (Apr 11, 2014)

The same thing I've wanted for the past 7 years. Fully knurled 6/4 in AA form. Nobody has ever built one. The closest is Mac's knurly but that's CR123 in CP2.


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## archimedes (Apr 11, 2014)

bmstrong said:


> The same thing I've wanted for the past 7 years. Fully knurled 6/4 in AA form. Nobody has ever built one. The closest is Mac's knurly but that's CR123 in CP2.



What about the *Tain* Flute ... ?


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## yoyoman (Apr 11, 2014)

The Tain Flute is beautiful.


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## mcnair55 (Apr 11, 2014)

With lights costing 3 figure sums i would like to see limited edition lights done in hydrographics (immersion coatings).This industry is crying out for this treatment.

I want new lights to be powered by modern state of the art battery technology and not the the stuff from Noah's Ark like C & D cells which are expensive and very rarely used in much theses days.


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## bmstrong (Apr 12, 2014)

archimedes said:


> What about the *Tain* Flute ... ?



It's not fully knurled.


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## residue (Apr 13, 2014)

i missed this thread since i don't visit cpf nearly as often.

i'd probably agree with most of monocrom's thoughts, including "goatee".

as far as the flashlight industry, it's similar to every other hobby out there; unless there's innovation, it eventually gets stale. even smartphones feel like commodities as every model has more or less the same features/specs and represents only a slight improvement over the previous year. personally, i don't see the appeal of potential usb or bluetooth capabilities. how often does one need to program settings? maybe there's some exciting development around the corner but i don't know what it would be. the lumens war has turned into the megapixels of the camera world.

for cpf, i've accepted that it will never be the same. the raffles were fun and i would welcome them again provided they don't require huge contributions. i'm not much of a collector and consider flashlights as tools. in this case, i think i have enough tools and would appreciate more threads about applications of the tools rather than comparing specs all day. that's probably why i've been an advocate of a stories forum; i want to hear how people use their lights other than trying to impress other people or themselves.


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## wjv (Apr 19, 2014)

Run-time Run-time & Run-time. 

Unfortunately it seems the manufacturers are obsessed with Lumes Lumens and Lumens


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## Hooked on Fenix (Apr 21, 2014)

Gerber Infinity Ultra with updated 5mm neutral white l.e.d.

Inova X1 with 25 lumen single level, HAIII anodizing, glass lens, and Cree XP-G2 S2 l.e.d. (at that level an R5 l.e.d. can get around 175 lumens a watt in a Quark QP2A). Runtime could be over 10 hours regulated.

Multilevel U.S.B. rechargeable 18650 light with highest bin Cree XM-L2 and rollable solar charger small enough to wrap around it with a mini U.S.B. output for direct charging of the light. Should go from a sublumen low to 1,000 lumens, constant current for levels, no P.W.M., must be waterproof.

Updated Princeton Tec EOS headlight

2AA version of Princeton Tec EOS headlight

USB 18650 rechargeable headlight that can be used as a 5 volt USB power supply as well. Must be waterproof, aluminum, and under 6 oz. Multilevel and have RGB l.e.d.s. I want to be able to change the l.e.d. color, the brightness, and pick the tint of white light at any given moment. Should have a Cree XM-L2 or XP-G2 for throw and RGB l.e.d.s for lower levels and adjusting color and tint.

If possible, I'd like to see an l.e.d. flashlight with a small tritium battery constantly charging up a supercapacitor. When the supercapacitor gets drained from using the light on high, you can just wait for it to get topped off within a day. No charging cables or outside power sources required. This would be a self-charging duty light. It should last around 10 years of daily use. Using the light on low should yield unbelieveably long runtimes.


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## zespectre (Apr 21, 2014)

I haven't read all the way through this, but I would LOVE an edc light that charged as you moved. I guess something conceptually like the "shake lights" or self winding watches but that, you know, actually worked. My EDC keychain light is the one that I keep forgetting to refresh the batteries in.


Oh and some kind of improvement in "fog cutter" capability


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## Tmack (Apr 21, 2014)

zespectre said:


> I haven't read all the way through this, but I would LOVE an edc light that charged as you moved. I guess something conceptually like the "shake lights" or self winding watches but that, you know, actually worked. My EDC keychain light is the one that I keep forgetting to refresh the batteries in.



We have shoes that have full spring shocks in them. Why can we convert that pressure into power. We could have usb charging shoes!!

Solar ball cap?


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## idleprocess (Apr 21, 2014)

zespectre said:


> I haven't read all the way through this, but I would LOVE an edc light that charged as you moved. I guess something conceptually like the "shake lights" or self winding watches but that, you know, actually worked. My EDC keychain light is the one that I keep forgetting to refresh the batteries in.


Peizo generators that do just this are still in the lab. One of the issues seems to be that the net power to be harnessed is small yet delivered in difficult-to-capture spikes.


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## Monocrom (Apr 21, 2014)

zespectre said:


> I haven't read all the way through this, but I would LOVE an edc light that charged as you moved. I guess something conceptually like the "shake lights" or self winding watches but that, you know, actually worked. My EDC keychain light is the one that I keep forgetting to refresh the batteries in.
> 
> 
> Oh and some kind of improvement in "fog cutter" capability



Self-winding watches are mechanical. The electronic equivalent would be kinetic technology in watches.... Which is mostly a miserable failure outside of Seiko. Even Seiko makes very few kinetic models. You walk, and your movements charge up the battery inside the watch.


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## ElectronGuru (Jul 12, 2014)

Greta said:


> So I was having a conversation with someone today about how the flashlight industry has basically gone flat because there's really nothing new going on. Everyone has access to Cree's now, everyone is doing high, low and strobe... (to death!), there's just nothing NEW. As a result, I think most of us are quite simply... BORED! :candle::tired:



New thought...

I joined CPF after moving to a new city that required flashlights for night riding (bicycle). Unhappy with what I found at the store (5mm), I set about looking for better. That lead to google, which brought me here. If I was doing the same thing today, REI would yield good options in a few minutes. A few seconds at the grocery stores gets a 1-2 gen old CREE.

So yeah, theres less new tech but more importantly, older tech is feeding into more places sooner than it used to. We used to dream of the day we could walk into any store an pick up something usable. Now we can. Like that town on Cars, welcoming the new Interstate.


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## LGT (Jul 12, 2014)

A new, more efficient emitter then Cree. Maybe nothing new on the horizon, but it'd be interesting to see a new kid on the block, in it's infancy, and the heated discussions between what's better, Cree or the new emmiterX.


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## GillBates (Jul 12, 2014)

I was pretty excited when I ordered a fleshlight. I hate that damn thing. It doesn't light up anything at all!


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## Tmack (Jul 13, 2014)

Ehh. I found one of those at work last week. 

I drive a vacuum truck for downtown Baltimore and it was with a homeless guys pile of stuff. 

I guess he was out while his "wife" stayed home with the kids/rats.


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## f22shift (Jul 13, 2014)

every once in awhile i check back to see if there is something new and innovative. maybe i plateau'd when i got my custom "grail" light. i miss the times when in order to get high lumens you had to tinker with something custom and spend the bucks. now it's just cheaper to buy it straight out.

to be honest, any real dark activity would get me excited again. i rarely need a light in a city.


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## Overclocker (Jul 13, 2014)

a super compact triple XP-L powered by by a Sony VTC5 drawing 6+ amps from the battery


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## PEU (Jul 13, 2014)

Hi guys :wave:

For me it always was about customs with the best you can find at the moment, the problem is that the mass produced Chinese flashlights got to a point in quality its difficult to compete. Of course I mean quality units, not DX...

In any case, I'm still a regular here but at the M/M/M subforum, I feel surrounded by guys who share the love for flashlights but also machining. Also on the custom forge subforum as I'm more into making knives lately.


Pablo


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## Kestrel (Jul 14, 2014)

I humbly confess that reading CPF gets me excited about flashlights again, lol.


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## Bucket (Jul 31, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> a super compact triple XP-L powered by by a Sony VTC5 drawing 6+ amps from the battery



How about a triple XP-G2 driven by a 14500 at 6.3 amps? I may be making a few of these after my Damascus project is complete. Prototype is pictured. There will be a few changes such as the brass exposed pill will be made of copper instead. Probably a little machining embellishment here and there too.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jul 31, 2014)

Bucket - that's pretty cool. Maybe a little flare at the end to keep it positioned in the hand.

I have to say the resurgence of the HDS production line has actually brought some new life into the hobby for me. I've always loved HDS lights but never used them much even though I've almost always had at least one. Now that I use them more I like them so much more as well.

Also - I know incan lights are pretty much dead but I'd love to see a new high power high efficiency regulated incan that can take advantage of some of the new higher power cells that weren't available 4-5 years ago. We all really stretched the AW17670 as much as we could with a FMs bi-pin adapter and a 1185 bulb. It would be cool to see a high powered light that used a host similar to the EagleTac G25C2 with a nice big reflector that could really push some lumens of the IMR18350 cells. Just dreaming.


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## Bucket (Jul 31, 2014)

Yeah, I will be putting a larger diameter on the end of the tail cap for sure.

I don't have any experience with high power incan lights. From the little I've read about them better soft start solutions are needed for the next level to come.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jul 31, 2014)

Mattaus has a really cool switch project he is working on. A soft-start incan switch is an item in the works.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Jul 31, 2014)

A serious increase in efficiency would get my interest going again. I would get excited about a light that puts out 40 lumens for a week straight out of a 1xAA light. Not 14500, a AA that I can find at any store in the country.

Lights are tools for me, my passion lies with things that burn fuel or gun powder. I don't need 1000+ lumens in my pocket, 40 lumens is completely useable and 200 lumens is plenty bright for just about any task, and those lights are ALL OVER THE PLACE and easy to find. When I first joined up, LEDs were just becoming useable in flashlights. 40 lumens out of a single emitter was pretty decent at the time, and elicited "WOW THAT'S BRIGHT" from non-flashaholic folk. Now dollar store lights do that, and there is no particularly serious search required to find a solid reliable useable LED flashlight. After my need to find useable lights was taken care of, I stuck around CPF for the people, and eventually that faded. I recently had an unpleasant encounter with a moderator over my signature(since changed) which further drove me away.

I do miss the EV forum a bit.


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## js (Aug 2, 2014)

The sophistication and power of our micro-processor controlled, high efficiency high output LED flashlight front ends is *NOT* matched by a correspondingly sophisticated and capable control surface. This is a huge problem.

Back when I was predicting that Apple would release something like the iPad, there were two posts about the MacBook Wheel, which is a satire by The Onion about how Apple has the tech world buzzing with its move to do away with the keyboard in favor of a giant wheel and button combo (like the iPod). In the video, one Apple representative says:

"At Apple our philosophy is to create products that are simple to use. And nothing's more simple than a single giant button."

Yuk yuk yuk. It's a freaking riot. As if making an interface _simple_ makes it _simple to use_. Although, it actually IS simple to use--but oh so painful. The person demonstrating in the video takes forever just to navigate and accomplish things. It's funny because it's ridiculous. Because forcing all the complexity and sophistication of the input (text, file structure, file names, programs, actions, screen information, cursor location, etc.!) through this interface is ridiculous!

But this is exactly what I think of when I see all these flashlights with multiple levels and multiple modes all trying to force them through the bottleneck of a single clicky switch!

A simple interface is only appropriate for a simple function. A single level light mates well with a clicky switch or a SureFire type lock out tailcap.

A dual level flashlight mates well with a progressive twist switch like the SureFire A2/L1/L2 LOTC or with McGizmo's Piston-Drive.

But, beyond that, I think you run into trouble! My favorite single-clickie UI for a smart light is McGizmo's 3S scheme where a short off time is used for switching levels. But I still think it's a workaround for the overly simple single-clickie _UI bottleneck_. And _we need to remove this bottleneck_.

*We all need a more sophisticated and elegant control surface for our flashlights!*. And the technology is already there! Has been for a long time! Remember this product?







I do. It was Christmas break and my sister and I were both at my parents and she took about 5 seconds or so showing me the basics of how to work the ipod, then just handed it off to me. I was blown away. It was incredible. Anything I intuitively thought should work in terms of controlling or changing stuff with that UI just ended up working that way. I was like "Oh, this is why people are so impressed with this thing!" It was a seriously awesome UI. It was complicated enough, but no more so. And it was intuitive and easy to use.

Adding extra buttons to a flashlight does not improve the situation much over a single clickie! Adding a rotary dial or selector ring, like HDS Rotary or Spy 007 or NiteCore SRT models is going in the right direction, I think (especially the Spy).

But what would really excite me--and what I think is absolutely necessary for the more complicated light front-ends--is something like the iPod controller, but in a single tail-end touch surface--like a laptop trackpad. Like the Apple trackpads, actually, in that pushing in will cause the whole thing to click, which is registered (or can be) as different than a touch.

So . . . imagine it. Push the rear touch button in until it clicks to wake the light up from OFF (and it's been off so there's no parasitic drain). At this point, simply touching the rear switch-pad gives you momentary on in the scheme of your choice (last level, always low, always high, --whatever).

Want to make the light brighter? Rotate your thumb or finger clockwise--just like raising the volume on the old iPods--and you get increasing brightness. Could be in jumps, could be continuous--whatever. Rotate counter-clockwise and you get decreasing brightness. For mode changes swipe straight down or up--assuming there are mode changes (like flood vs throw a la SureFire A2 or LunaSol 20).

For constant on, push in further to click.

And you could add a capacitive touch strip or surface or ring to the head or up near the head with a similar scheme. You'd need to have a more sophisticated connection of the head to body, however. Think a camera lens. Used to be there were very fine threads and you screwed your lens on. Until some company came up with something better. Then later, electrical connections were added, then more. Now, with a quarter turn you mechanically and electrically connect your lens to your camera body and get autofocus and all sorts of control over and information from the lens.

But what do we have with flashlights? Eh? Only a screw on head. But if we had something more like a camera type connection, then we could separate out the body from the electrical pathway--which is what the Piston-Drive also did and is part of why I loved it so much. Don actually made a PD light with a plastic body once, he told me! LOL! Point is that you could use electrical connectors or contacts and cabling for the circuit path and controller interface connections. And the body material could be chosen for other reasons. I'd love to see a magnesium alloy with some kind of surface coating. Again, think camera bodies. Plenty of magnesium ones out there.

The point is that we're way WAY behind in terms of the UI (and body) for flashlights. They freaking SUCK to use. They are so inelegant and so annoying. Just like Greta said at the beginning:



> And see... I wish we could see the "re-birth" of simplicity. Two modes - high and low. No programming, no click five times for this or that or stand on your head while turning the head three twists to the left then two to the right, blahblahblah. KISS - keep it simple ******. On - off. One hand operation.



The feeling of "simplicity" is when the user interface is appropriate to the reality with which you are interfacing. If you need to TYPE a click wheel is a nightmare! And if you have multiple levels and multiple LED's and multiple modes, a single clicky switch isn't great either, even with the best schemes for switching. And we don't need MORE freaking switches! We need something elegant!

There's a reason why all modern smart phones are using a touch screen interface now. Why can't flashlights?

I was talking about this with SilverFox today and he pointed me to this review: Imalent EU06 which is a flashlight with an actual touchscreen! LOL! And I like that this is getting outside the box, so to speak.

But it's not appropriate for a flashlight. A touch screen is too complicated and uses too much power and is too big for a flashlight. Plus, you need an interface that you don't have to _look at_ in order to use! If you're using a flashlight it's because you want to look at _something else_. So I think the right degree of sophistication is a capacitive touch surface interface--something like 9 sensors--one in the center and 8 around the outside--that would probably be about right. And this kind of thing is readily available and small and inexpensive. Or it could be a lot more sensors than that if you wanted. That's the stuff under the hood. The idea is the same. To take simple gestures and map them to appropriate functions. And if you already have your thumb on the rear activation surface, or another finger(s) at the front surface, then it's easy and simple to manipulate things with them via simple gestures.

And imagine only having to grab the head of your light to make it turn on! Let go and it turns off. (assuming it was in momentary mode and ready and waiting).

Because, once again, I think it's important that after a certain amount of time of inactivity, the touch uC would turn off and thus stop the parasitic drain.

Anyway, this is all just one vision of how it could be implemented. There are many others. And it's easy to imagine a bluetooth connectivity (mentioned earlier) with an app on your smartphone so that people could customize the heck out of the implementation to their liking. But however it is implemented, _we simply desperately need a better, more sophisticated (but still elegant) UI_.

That's what I want to see. That and more truly High CRI emitters, like the Nichia 119 and 083. I see all these lights all using the same Cree emitters, and I'm like, yeah whatever. I feel the same way about them (to a degree) that I used to feel about the 5 mm Nichia white LED's back after the Luxeon Stars had come out. People at work who knew I was into flashlight would show me all their lights that they picked up for super cheap at the dollar store or at Home Depot or wherever, and they were always using multiple 5mm Nichias, sometimes in a beehive type configuration. And that was fine. And I never rained on their parade. I was always positive and excited for them. But at the same time, I was always glad of my Arc LSH with the Luxeon Star.

And that's how I feel now after having lived with the High CRI Haiku and the SunDrop. Those beams really freaking excite me! Nothing against the Cree's at all, though! It's just personal preference. I value high CRI over output. It's why I carried the SF A2 for so long and why I was into incans. But now LED's have surpassed incans in terms even of color rendering. Or they rival them, anyway, at least. And with greater efficiency and way greater longevity.

It's exciting. And I don't see very many high CRI LED lights. I mean, some say they are (with like an 80 CRI) but that's really nothing special. 90-95 CRI on the other hand combined with 4000+ K CCT? Now that gets me excited! LOL!

YMMV. Just my personal preferences.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Aug 5, 2014)

I had an interesting thought I'd like to see on the market. How about a USB headlight. Not a headlight that recharges an internal battery with USB from another USB battery pack, but one without the internal battery pack. Just a headband with the l.e.d.s on the headlight with a decently long U.S.B. cord. You could hook it directly into your favorite USB battery pack without the power losses of charging one set of batteries with another. Have the light run at 1 amp at 5 volts to the l.e.d. max. so any standard battery pack would work. That's 5 watts of power. With modern emitters, you can easily get 600 lumens out of that. Add infinitely variable brightness at the l.e.d. head to throttle the power and you're set. I could see something like this easy to sell for $30 and blow the competition away. No need for a regulation circuit since it's a feature of the battery pack. No cost to build a battery case or battery pack as it's sold separately. This brings down the trail weight of the light significantly and gives multiple uses for the battery pack. Makes solar charging while backpacking work better. Come on manufacturers, I've got an 11 Amp U.S.B. battery pack waiting to reach it's full potential. Get to work.


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## Diesel_Bomber (Aug 7, 2014)

I would buy that USB headlamp if it was waterproof and the cord was long enough to run to my pocket or belt. Count me in!


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## bdi-innovation (Aug 11, 2014)

Does this excite anyone!

I would like to get some feedback on my little invention if I'm allowed to post this private link to a demo.
http://youtu.be/6S4tf6uxm84
who says a Flashlight needs a mechanical switch!

so as Henry Ford supposedly quoted
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said _faster horses_.”


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## idleprocess (Aug 12, 2014)

bdi-innovation said:


> Does this excite anyone!
> 
> I would like to get some feedback on my little invention if I'm allowed to post this private link to a demo.
> http://youtu.be/6S4tf6uxm84
> who says a Flashlight needs a mechanical switch!


A tilt switch-triggered relay _(I had a novelty LED-illuminated bouncing ball some years back that used a similar principle)_ ... or in newer *sekzier* terms, an accelerometer that triggers with a specific motion _(my smartphone activates the camera from rest with two flicks of the wrist)_?

You may find some critics here.


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## flashy bazook (Aug 22, 2014)

I've been here since 2007 but have been away for the past year plus. But is it because I was "bored"? No!

A better word is "satisfied"!

After going through the early phases with the LED revolution and making plenty of mistakes along the way--getting several el-cheapo flashlights, then trying to find the one-flashlight-to-rule-them-all--I wised up and set up a system to manage non-fixed lighting light needs.

I also went the way of the custom flashlights.

This was a costly approach, but basically fulfilled all my needs.

Coming back to check what's been happening, and if my system needs any kind of updating, I find (so far) basically not much has changed and that my system is still A-OK.

We have one more generation of LEDs, e.g., the XML has become the XML2 with a bit more output at max levels, with the batteries still more or less where they were before. So not much improvement. 

Given that for max-lumen I still have a 3xXPG light that gives out 1,100 lumens for 75 minutes in my battery configuration, and in a very manageable physical size, I don't feel I need the latest LED emitter. In other words, I can just jump over a generation of emitters (kind of like computers where you find you can just jump over several generations of CPUs these days).

In fact, as I see the latest offerings from the usual suspects (mostly Asian factories), they seem to have gone the way of max-lumen plus multi-battery setups, like 3x or 4x18650's. Well, this is not an improvement over my setups really, as the flashlights are physically bigger, heavier, and more complicated. Oh, and to manage their costs often the material is inferior (lots of plastic, whereas my flashlights are HA-III alum or even titanium).

Some manufacturers are going the way of multi-emitters, sometimes 2 "white" LEDs, or 1 main "white" LED plus a few weak-output color (RBG) LEDs. Not a very nice design, if you ask me. If you need a certain color, in a weak output, just use a color filter, or a specialized adequate-power color LED emitter to actually get useful output out of it.

OK, so what about the future? Here it is harder to make constructive suggestions.

Probably flashlights for specialized needs--caving, diving, etc.--can be improved in various ways, and for those folks that have those needs, there will be a continuing market.

The programmability I feel will always be something of an esoteric niche, as most folks can be fine with a few output steps. Personally I even appreciate single-output flashlights because I have several so I can just choose the one best suited for the job. Maybe even 2 or 3 output levels are sufficient for many general uses. So you have the "main" output best suited for your needs, and a useful lower output level in case you need a lot of runtime for some reason.

Rechargeability is interesting, but I feel that the USB-port is not a good solution because it reduces the integrity of the flashlight (e.g., water resistance). Perhaps the newly coming out technologies where recharging can be done wirelessly will be interesting for flashlights as well. These technologies are coming out of the computer world, Intel has a specification out already. So that could be an area where people can find new excitement in.

One area that I think is underserved, is high-efficiency high-throw flashlights. It is still quite hard to find flashlights with emitters with narrow optics that can have high runtimes and long throw. A standardized size that can match diffusers can get out of the "fear" that you can't see what's happening near your physical location very well with such flashlights. Basically the flashlights with high throw tend to be big-lumen monsters with multi-rechargeable batteries, which is hugely inefficient. So here there is much room for improvement.

But overall, is it so bad to be satisfied? Let's recall the era before LEDs, where the standard flashlights (e.g., Maglite) were around unchanged for decades. The LEDs changed the picture for a while, but as their limits, plus those of batteries, are reached, we could have an era where not much change is evident or necessary.

Is this such a horrible situation? Maybe not!


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## cland72 (Aug 22, 2014)

I would love for Surefire to produce a light with the following features:
Selectable driver (similar to Streamlight) with several sets of pre-programmed levels
E series body and tailcap with KX2C sized head
17670 compatible
HA finish
TIR lens
500 lumens on high
sub lumen "moonlight" mode available

Think about it - you could program it for any situation you wanted, with any number of modes you wished.

Going to a shooting class or participating in a SWAT raid? Program it for single mode, or perhaps high mode with strobe available on the second click.
Going camping? Program a high, medium, and low mode.
Going into the wilderness? Maybe you want high, low, and SOS modes.
Going to bed for the night? Program it with moon mode to come on first, then 500 lumens second.


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## ElectronGuru (Dec 15, 2014)

This article describes a societal change effecting all technology:

Where Did Our Tech Love Go?
http://www.cio.com/article/2692385/.../where-did-our-tech-love-go-netapp-ciobp.html

Flashlights became technology when we added leds and drivers. This created untold improvements and (at least initial) excitement. But it also tied us to technology culture.


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## NonSenCe (Dec 15, 2014)

me getting excited again demands few things.. 
1st. have more money to spend. 
2nd. to be dark outside (every year when winter comes i get small bug to buy more lights.. like this year too) 
3rd. finding a flashlight with something you really want/need/desire with right price. ie. finding The One. 
4th. significant advancement on technology. more for less. improved versatility, ui, output, smaller size.


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## guthrie (Dec 21, 2014)

I just did get excited about torches again, because I found that you can get some nice neutral whites and high CRI LEDs cheaply enough now, as well as the efficiency and drivers have improved, so instead of needing 2x 18650 to get 500 lumens you can get it with one or 2x CR123's. Or even a bunch of AA's. That all together makes me a bit excited, so I went and bought a new torch.


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