# Introducing "PTS2"



## modamag (Feb 9, 2006)

It has been almost a year since the introduction of the PTS (Perfect Tri-Sink). In the LED world this is like an eternity.

I finally got time last December to do a complete overhaul of the PTS design to address the various issues that came up with the first revision.

*=== Issues Commonly Brought Up ===*
1. Use the PTS with 3x Luxeon V.
2. Hold the PTS down to the Mag bezel using screws.
3. E-can for the electronic converter.
4. Mag bezel height variation cause PTS to sit too high/low
5. Too much compression force from the lens pressing down the reflector causing damage to the LED.

Well, I heard all those concerns, and all of them were taking into consideration for the revision. So I took the work done on the PMS-K2 development and transfer the knowledge learns to the PTS2. I went all out with no expense spared in attempt to make a truly _”Perfect Tri-Sink”_. So the following improvements were made.

*=== Enhancements === *
1. Increase in overall mass of the heat sink. Since I can’t change the width to depth ratio (standard in HS design), I tried to slap on as much material as possible to achieve the 2:1 ratio without compromising with the functionality.
a) PTS2-C (2.2oz) vs PTS-C(1.5oz) … *47% increase in weight*
b) PTS2-D (1.7oz) vs PTS-D(0.7oz) … *143% increase in weight*

2. Increase the surface area to bring that heat to the Mag exterior for convection and conduction cooling.
a) PTS2-C (7.170 sqin) vs PTS-C(3.969 sqin) … *81% increase in surface contact *
b) PTS2-D (6.804 sqin) vs PTS-D(2.058 sqin) … *231% increase in surface contact*

3. Provide an e-can for the electronics. E-Can size is based on hotlips/osink defacto standard.

4. Provide three pin hole locations for locking screw tap.

5. Threaded portion to screw down into the Mag head. This eliminates the necessity of tightening the lens retaining ring to compress the lens / reflector / LED. As an added bonus the threads will be able to compensate for the variation in the Mag bezel shoulder.
IMHO this addition is the greatest improvement for usability.

With the above enhancement I’m confident that this HS will be able to provide enough thermal transfer to the exterior surface so that we can now use 3x K2 or even 3x LuxV. The ball will now be thrown to the other side of the court, where the new problem is how do you get rid of all the heat buildup on the light exterior? Well the answer is quite simple how about some groovy head like what cmacclel have done. :wicked:

So with all that said let me present to you the latest addition … PTS2






















*=== Recommended Host / Batteries / Driver / LED combination ===*
Mag2C / 2x18500 | C-LiIon / Fatman or Shark / 3xLuxIII
Mag3C / 3x18500 | C-LiIon / Shark / 3xLuxV
Mag1D / 4xAA / Fatman or Shark / 3xLuxIII
Mag1D / 4x14500 / nFlex / 3xLuxIII
Mag2D / 2xD-LiIon / Fatman or Shark / 3xLuxIII
Mag2D / 2xD-LiIon / Shark / 3xLuxIII
Mag2D / 8x14500 / Shark / 3xLuxV
Mag2D / 6|7xAA / Fatman or Shark / 3xLuxIII
Mag2D / 6|7xAA / Fatman or Shark / 3xLuxIII

* Listed in order of performance per size and level of difficulty
* Note LuxIII is interchangeable with K2 (when available as stars format)

*=== Recognition ===*
Special thanks Icarus for the design review and recommendation on the threaded enhancement.


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## ktronik (Feb 9, 2006)

:rock: :rock: :rock: :rock:   

:goodjob:


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## IsaacHayes (Feb 9, 2006)

wow, what beasties!! sure are high tech too. Big question is... Cost?


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## sancho886 (Feb 9, 2006)

Sweet! Now I have to make a tri-lux mag! :goodjob:


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## yaesumofo (Feb 9, 2006)

This looks gery good. A nice evolutionary step forward. Nice, I would certainly be interested in in having a coupple of these to build a light on.

Yaesumofo


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## markus_i (Feb 9, 2006)

When? Where? How much?

Now I'll have to go to the basement and try to find the parts of that Mag switch that dropped beneath the bench when I disassembled that old Maglite...

Bye
Markus


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## flex76italy (Feb 9, 2006)

Hi Jonathan, count me in for the sink. :goodjob:


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## Sway (Feb 9, 2006)

Me likey 

When will they be available? 

Later
Kelly


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## Icarus (Feb 9, 2006)

They look Great Jonathan, glad to see you incorporated some of my ideas. :twothumbs


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## wquiles (Feb 9, 2006)

Good job dude!

When are these beauties going to be ready for us? :naughty: 

Will


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## mateen (Feb 9, 2006)

These are real nice...and I LOVED the original PTS! When's the sale?


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## Changchung (Feb 9, 2006)

Impresionante trabajo...


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## wquiles (Feb 9, 2006)

Changchung said:


> Impresionante trabajo...


Muy bien dicho, amigo latino 

Will


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## modamag (Feb 9, 2006)

Merci mon frère for all the supportive comments.

Both of these units are currently ready for shipping.
The problem is I don't know how to price them. :thinking: Should I price them by $$$/oz, $$$/Surface Area, or $$$/R&D time & effort. Just kidding!  If I do that you guys are gonna :duck:

So how about $15/unit. I hope it won't make anyone  since it'll be less than 20% of the upgrade cost.

I'll conduct a limited (small quantity/ 2 weeks time) introductory sales in hoping to see some new 500+ lumens finned Luxeons lights modding. (Sales Thread)

Due to my current work load I won't be able to handle all the order fullfillment like the last PTS/PQS run. So after this intro-sales, I'll probably ask the Sandwich Shop to help by carrying all these in their inventory.

What do you guys think?


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## Billson (Feb 10, 2006)

I'm all for letting the Sandwich shoppe taking all the orders.

Will you making a new model of the PQS as well?


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## nemul (Feb 10, 2006)

GOOD JOB!


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## Mike Painter (Feb 10, 2006)

modamag said:


> hoping to see some new 500+ lumens finned Luxeons lights modding.



Beautiful work but how do we get 166 lumen LEDs?


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## modamag (Feb 10, 2006)

*Billson: *I'm waiting to get couple K2 before I finalize the design for PQS2. I want to make it so it's "universal" to save the setup cost.

*Mike Painter: *W-bin LuxV lumen ranges from 147.7 - 192.0 (average = 169.85). They can be found at The Sandwich Shop or by forum member PhotonFanatic


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## markus_i (Feb 10, 2006)

modamag,

you set up the PTS2 for so20 reflectors. Nothing wrong with that, but I can't find the dimensions of these reflectors - and I'd like to use the 20 mm carclo optics (bigger choice in beam setup). So can you (or anyone else for that matter) answer me one of those questions:
- how high are the IMS 20mm reflectors?
- does the PTS2 work with 20mm Carclo optics with the hex holders?

Bye
Markus


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## modamag (Feb 10, 2006)

Hi Markus,

The PTS2 will not work for optic.

I did however make an optic version PTS-D-TypeO which might work for you. It's significantly higher to accomodate for the optic height (or lack of).

Here are some info on various optics hope they help.



IMS SO20XA




Carclo 20mm optic




NX05 optic




Fraen optic


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## IsaacHayes (Feb 10, 2006)

By screwing into the head, I take it that the head doesn't screw down all the way on the body then? But by screwing on the HS into the head first this elminates the possibility of screwing the head onto the body and the body pushing up on the HS correct?

Reflectors don't get as much pressure on them from the lens either then right? If my leds weren't epoxied to my exsisting pts, I'd upgrade as my reflectors are sort of "oval" now from the pressure!!


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## Ledean (Feb 10, 2006)

Great work Jonathan,
What will you think of next. 

Ledean


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## modamag (Feb 10, 2006)

*IsaacHayes: *You first screw in the PTS2 into the head. Then the head to the body. The distance difference is 0.200" so it will barely make any difference on the light length. An as far as pressure on the reflector you can put as minimal amt as you want. That pressure is only used to prevent rattling.

*Ledean: *The next project is nothing related to flashlight. I want to build my own little monsterbot from scratch. Have to put those mill/lathe to work for something useful


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## Billson (Feb 10, 2006)

Jonathan,

In that case, I may just wait for the PQS. When will the shoppe start selling your heatsinks?

Can we substitute the McR20 for the IMS20. I'm not sure if there are differences in depth but I'm assuming they're at least the same size because they are both 20mm?


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## IsaacHayes (Feb 11, 2006)

I think the McR will fit, at least I think I've seen someone use those with the old PTS/PQS...


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## Billson (Feb 11, 2006)

I've seen some people use it but they didn't say if it the light had to be modified in any way.


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## markus_i (Feb 13, 2006)

Hi modamag,

thanks a lot for the drawings, they did indeed help. From what I can see, there's nothing wrong that a bit of epoxy won't cure 

As I understand it, the only problem whith the optics (assuming hexagonal holders - the round holders are half a mm larger in dia. than the SO20s) would be that there is too much distance between the front glass and the optics so that the glass can't be used to hold down the optics?

In this case, the obligatory glow-powder/epoxy mix down inside the head can also hold down the optics (or at least the holders). I know that in this case I won't be able to exchange the LEDs if one of them goes bad (or better ones come out), but usually (i.e. so far) I seal my LED heads anyway.

See you at the sales thread - I'll just have to decide now how many PTS2s I'm going to need for one Maglite ;-)

Bye
Markus


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## Turbo_E (Feb 16, 2006)

just a suggestion, but why not machine some "fins" in the rear instead of a solid mass? or even in the front where the luxes are? this would reduce the weight and increase the surface area. it may increase the cooling capacity despite being in a sealed envioronment.


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## DonShock (Feb 16, 2006)

I think the idea was to increase the mass so it would be take longer to heat up from the LED's and to increase the surface area in contact with the Mag body/head to better transfer heat to the outer surfaces where it could be dissipated.


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## AdamW (Feb 18, 2006)

Oh, man.

You really need to build Perfect Quad Sink 2 for the K2.

That way you get even more of my cash!!!

Adam


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## n_den (Apr 22, 2006)

modamag said:


> 5. Threaded portion to screw down into the Mag head. This eliminates the necessity of tightening the lens retaining ring to compress the lens / reflector / LED. As an added bonus the threads will be able to compensate for the variation in the Mag bezel shoulder.
> IMHO this addition is the greatest improvement for usability.



anybody know what the thread size is for the magd head?

n_den


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## n_den (Apr 22, 2006)

markus_i said:


> modamag,
> 
> you set up the PTS2 for so20 reflectors. Nothing wrong with that, but I can't find the dimensions of these reflectors - and I'd like to use the 20 mm carclo optics (bigger choice in beam setup). So can you (or anyone else for that matter) answer me one of those questions:
> - how high are the IMS 20mm reflectors?
> ...



don't know about the PTS2, but the PTS-D will work with the Carlco optics.

n_den


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## Amonra (Apr 22, 2006)

Will the PTS-2 work with the carclo tri-optics ? or they will not fit ?


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## modamag (Apr 23, 2006)

I don't have any carclo optic but PTS2 have more flexability than the PTS in term of single optic use.

As long as your optic diameter is withing the star profile then you can probably use it.
The reason I say this is because PTS give you an addition vertical adjustment of +/- 0.100" due to the threading design and the bezel thread. If you 

If you're using cluster (tri-optic / quad-optic / etc) you have to make sure the optic clears the channel because the side wall of the stars have been raised to improved heat transfer capability.

As for the K2 design, if anyone can sell me one K2, then I can make the design for the quad sink. I'm on the signup list but dunno if when it will materialize.


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## idleprocess (Apr 25, 2006)

Turbo_E said:


> just a suggestion, but why not machine some "fins" in the rear instead of a solid mass? or even in the front where the luxes are? this would reduce the weight and increase the surface area. it may increase the cooling capacity despite being in a sealed envioronment.


Fins are only useful on the exterior or in a location where there is airflow to conduct the heat away. Interior finning will make heat transfer worse because you lose mass (less material to absorb the heat) and potentially reduce the contact surface area (less efficient thermal transfer from your internal heat _spreader_ to the actual heatsink - the flashlight body).


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## Amonra (Apr 9, 2007)

Will the PTS-2 work with seoul P4 stars and Khatod P4 20mm reflectors or 20mm optics sold by photonfanatc here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=85330 ?


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## Sway (Apr 9, 2007)

The 20mm Khatod reflectors work just fine but the 20mm optics are too short and do not meet the lens, you will have to glue them in place.

Hope this helps 

Later
Kelly


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## Amonra (Apr 9, 2007)

so the khatod reflectors ( for seoul P4 ) will fit properly ?


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## Walt175 (Apr 16, 2007)

Has anyone ever posted how to install one of these? I think I'm ready to try my first multi-emitter light, but don't know how to mount this into the head.


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## Sway (Apr 16, 2007)

Walt175 said:


> Has anyone ever posted how to install one of these? I think I'm ready to try my first multi-emitter light, but don't know how to mount this into the head.



Hi Walt,

Try this thread, it's shows the old style PTS but it should help 

Later
Kelly


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## Walt175 (Apr 16, 2007)

Thanks Kelly! That's what I was looking for. :thanks:


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## Fixmaster-J (Mar 4, 2008)

Hi modamag,
I hope you can help me. I have a mag 4D, pts2-D and 3 Seoul P4 led's.
I have some LXHL-NX05 lenses but i was wondering what would work better lenses or reflector's?
I have an old type of mag head so i cant screw the head in but if i remove the screw-tap then the heatsink will fit using the p4's and the lenses (pushing the lenses against the mag lens).
Or is it better to have the new head and screw the heatsink in and use reflectors? 
When using a new type of head and so20's will the reflector push against the maglite lens? Or do you glue them to the P4 star?
What is best to do, push them against the mag lens or glue them to the led?
Hope you can help.
Tnx,
Jasper


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## Fixmaster-J (Mar 4, 2008)

Hi Sway,
Do you know where to get the 20mm Khatod reflectors?


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## .308 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hi Fixmaster-J,

Try CPF member Photonfanatic. He has a sales thread in "Dealer's Corner".

Good Luck,
Chris
.308


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## modamag (Mar 6, 2008)

I would use lens, the beam is much more favorable.


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## Fixmaster-J (Mar 10, 2008)

modamag said:


> I would use lens, the beam is much more favorable.


 
Tnx, modamag, i have some NX05's i can use. are they any good?


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## modamag (Mar 10, 2008)

yes they can be used but you will need something (eg hot glue) to keep the optic from floating since lens pressure will not be applied.


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## Fixmaster-J (Mar 10, 2008)

modamag said:


> yes they can be used but you will need something (eg hot glue) to keep the optic from floating since lens pressure will not be applied.


 
Tnx for the Tip. I have an old type of mag head. So i cant screw the heatsink in the head. When i remove the screw-tap from the heatsink i think it will fit with the lenses because the old type of head isnt as high as the new one.
But hotglue will keep the lenses in place?
I thought that a lens maybe will give less light then a reflector but i'm wrong then?


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## Aepoc (Apr 3, 2011)

are these still available?


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## Fixmaster-J (Apr 4, 2011)

Aepoc said:


> are these still available?


 Check out the sandwich shoppe:
http://theledguy.chainreactionweb.com/product_info.php?cPath=48_56_73&products_id=606
They might have what you are looking for.


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## Aepoc (Apr 4, 2011)

Thank you, but the shoppe only has C size available... I require a Mag D sized heat sink. Please let me know if you hear anything their availability and if more will be available, when...


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## tobrien (Oct 14, 2015)

what size copper sinkpads etc would work in a Perfect Tri-Star Sink PTS-2 D?

I'm thinking of getting 3x XP-G2 LEDs and putting 'em inside three McR17XR reflectors for my first-ever mag mod.


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## Sway (Oct 17, 2015)

A 20mm star sinkpad should work. The PTS2 was a little tight so test fit the stars and file them down as needed for a good fit.


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## tobrien (Oct 18, 2015)

Sway said:


> A 20mm star sinkpad should work. The PTS2 was a little tight so test fit the stars and file them down as needed for a good fit.



thank you sir!


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## Sway (Oct 18, 2015)

I tried the McR17's back in the day, they worked OK but I liked the IMS 20mm reflector better. The legs on the back of the reflector set into the cutouts on the star and make it much easier to keep everything lined up when you're tightening the bezel down on the lens. 

What host and driver are you looking at?

Later
Kelly


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