# Blake Co-Ax Indicator



## StrikerDown (Feb 14, 2010)

I recently picked up a Blake Co-Ax Indicator... Two actually, by mistake!:duh2:

If you have not used one of these they can really make life easier when centering part of a workpiece with the spindle or for even centering the tail stock on your lathe.

Say you want to bore a hole or bearing pocket larger, how do you center the existing hole under the spindle? What about getting a rotary table centered? I used to grab the dial indicator chuck it in the spindle and chase it in circles tweaking the X & Y until the needle stopped moving all the time trying to see the dial face to see how it was progressing all the way around.

With the Co-Ax indicator you chuck it up (in this case I'm using an ER-40 collet to hold it but a drill chuck works also if you will be drilling holes) adjust the item you want centered as close to centered by eye as you can then adjust the feeler point so that the small indicator is about centered in its travel with the feeler point sitting where it will be in operation. I have been rotating the spindle by hand to make sure there is no binding before switching on the power. When I'm sure it will spin without any obstruction I then turn on the power at 700 - 800 RPM or less. The indicator needle will start bouncing back and forth. Start by adjusting one of the axis wheels until the needle deflects the least, then adjust the other axis wheel for the least needle movement. if the hole is pretty smooth and round inside you can get the needle to not move at all. That is it! the part will be within .0002" centered on the axis of the spindle. You can also use the curved feeler point to indicate the outside of a round part or cylinder.

Here I am centering a part to open up a hole, the hole could also be the center hole of the rotary table:






This shot shows the restraining arm that keeps the indicator from spinning with the spindle and keeps the dial facing where you point it, no more chasing around in circles!:






On the lathe you can use the Co-Ax to center the tail stock. Here it is being held in a 5C collet and the feeler is indicating the operator side of the Tail stock:






Manually rotate the collet chuck 180 degrees to indicate off the rear inside of the TS. Power is not used here. Notice the needle is exactly in the same position front and rear so it should be within .0002"





You can also check the verticle offset, not that it is easy to adjust but it is nice to know if it is close.





It looks like my TS is .0014" above the axis of the spindle. As the bottom of it wears it will get closer to centering up!





Did anyone notice My new Power feed on the mill  

So now I have two Like New Blake Co-Ax indicators, and only need one! I guess I will try eBay, unless someone here would like one for what I have in it.


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## precisionworks (Feb 14, 2010)

You can restrain the body by holding it, but make sure nothing is in the way  FWIW, the part being bored is a wing strut end bushing from the McLaren M6B driven by Swede Savage & Dan Gurney in Trans-Am racing. Those cars sold for $14k in 1968, but the Savage-Gurney car is insured now for $500k.









> I will try eBay, unless someone here would like one for what I have in it.


I'd be surprised if you don't sell it here ... they are a great addition to mill tooling.


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## wquiles (Feb 14, 2010)

StrikerDown said:


> So now I have two Like New Blake Co-Ax indicators, and only need one! I guess I will try eBay, unless someone here would like one for what I have in it.



I am definitely interested. My email is in my signature - let me know how much you want for your "extra" one.

Will


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## Atlascycle (Feb 14, 2010)

I am interested also after Will of course.

Jason


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## StrikerDown (Feb 14, 2010)

Jason,

Thanks, looks like will wants it, thanks though.

Right now there are several on the bay, the so so condition ones will probably go for $140 - $150 ish, The nice ones usually seem to end at over $160 and up. Or new MSC had them $316.xx I think.


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## Atlascycle (Feb 14, 2010)

No problem Ray.


Jason


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## wquiles (Feb 14, 2010)

StrikerDown said:


> Jason,
> 
> Thanks, looks like will wants it, thanks though.
> 
> Right now there are several on the bay, the so so condition ones will probably go for $140 - $150 ish, The nice ones usually seem to end at over $160 and up. Or new MSC had them $316.xx I think.





Thanks again Ray 

Will


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## StrikerDown (Feb 14, 2010)

Thank You also!


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## unterhausen (Feb 16, 2010)

you guys are killing me here, I gotta have one of these. So I take it that I should avoid the SPI version?


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## StrikerDown (Feb 16, 2010)

unterhausen said:


> you guys are killing me here, I gotta have one of these. So I take it that I should avoid the SPI version?



I have heard some say SPI is okay, but they subcontract their tooling from the lowest bidder so quality may vary. 

Blake is USA made in So. Kalifornia. They also recert, repair their own indicators very reasonably. The one Will is getting has a Fresh Certification that I believe comes with a warranty like a new product! Don't quote on that, but I believe that is what I read on their web site.

Edit:

BTW this kind of killing is not a crime... or Barry would have been locked up long ago!


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## precisionworks (Feb 16, 2010)

> I should avoid the SPI version?


The problem with SPI (Swiss Precision Industries) or Phase II or Fred B. Fowler is that none of them are manufacturers of the products they sell. They contract with whomever they choose to make a product that looks like a Blake, works like a Blacke, etc. And the copy is often nearly as expensive as the original.

Also, Blake will repair their indicator if needed. Who will repair a SPI or Phase II? And is it worth the cost of repair?


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## saltytri (Feb 16, 2010)

I agree with everything the experts are saying about the SPI unit and the possible downsides. I have one, have used it a few times and it works fine. But I saw a new Blake for a good price and got it, not because the SPI doesn't work but because I wanted a Blake. Go figure. So, if anyone wants a coaxial indicator and doesn't want to pay the price for a Blake, send me a PM!

David


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## wquiles (Feb 18, 2010)

StrikerDown said:


> The one Will is getting has a Fresh Certification that I believe comes with a warranty like a new product! Don't quote on that, but I believe that is what I read on their web site.


Dude!

You were not exaggerating at all! This one not only "does" look like a brand new unit, but it does come with a certificate from Blake certifying that it has been rebuild and calibrated to like new condition on Feb 8 2010, and it even includes the N.I.S.T test report # - truly impressive. Thanks much Ray :twothumbs


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## StrikerDown (Feb 18, 2010)

wquiles said:


> Dude!
> 
> You were not exaggerating at all! This one not only "does" look like a brand new unit, but it does come with a certificate from Blake certifying that it has been rebuild and calibrated to like new condition on Feb 8 2010, and it even includes the N.I.S.T test report # - truly impressive. Thanks much Ray :twothumbs




Will, 

I am jealous, you always get the good deals! 

Seriously, I try my best to be honest and accurate when describing something for sale. It just tweaks my Twinkies when I go to look at something and it is not as advertised.

I'm glad you are happy with it... I thought you would be!


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## GMLRS (Feb 19, 2010)

A dial test gage with an Universal Indicator Holder, sets up in about 3 Seconds, clamps just under quill. Ive seen a never used Blake coax last 2 seconds on a cnc machine 


Never really knew why people used those things. 

A dial test gage with an indocol clamp, can center a spindle over a part, in about 10 seconds. Its probably one of my favorite tools, wish it could clamp on to more things faster.


Universal Indicator Holder
://www.shoprutlandtool.com/catalog/prestige-value-universal-indicator-holder-for-bridgeport-mill-j-head/21868531.html


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## GMLRS (Feb 19, 2010)

??? link didnt work

Universal Indicator Holder
https://www.shoprutlandtool.com/cat...lder-for-bridgeport-mill-j-head/21868531.html


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## GMLRS (Feb 19, 2010)

GMLRS said:


> ??? link didnt work
> 
> Universal Indicator Holder
> https://www.shoprutlandtool.com/cat...lder-for-bridgeport-mill-j-head/21868531.html



Dial test indicators:twothumbs
https://www.shoprutlandtool.com/web...rmScope=4&searchTextValue=dial+test+indicator


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## StrikerDown (Feb 19, 2010)

Have an indicol, Have an Interapid dial test and they work fine, they are accurate. 

One problem I have is that my down feed stop adjustment is right in front of the spindle and clamping the indicol to the spindle is very a tight fit. The indicol set screw has to hang 40-50% off the end of the spindle for it to clear the down stop adj. 
Also I guess I'm lazy I don't like chasing the dial test in circles to get the adjustment, it also takes me a couple minutes to set up and center over a hole so I am not as practiced as you. 
With the Blake the very first time I used it I was set up and centered in less that a minute and it being the first time was with zero practice! So I think it was a worthwhile investment... but who needs an excuse to buy tools any way! (except maybe for the wife!)

Edit:

Like with guns, I would rather have tools and not need them than need them and not have them!


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## precisionworks (Feb 20, 2010)

My Indicol + Interapid is used the most ... but for some jobs, nothing beats a Blake Co-Ax. Very deep holes are a breeze, something that's nearly impossible with an Interapid.


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## GMLRS (Feb 20, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> You can restrain the body by holding it, but make sure nothing is in the way  FWIW, the part being bored is a wing strut end bushing from the McLaren M6B driven by Swede Savage & Dan Gurney in Trans-Am racing. Those cars sold for $14k in 1968, but the Savage-Gurney car is insured now for $500k.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was in Dan Gurneys shop (20 years ago) when they were fabricating their now famous Toyota GTP cars, they totally dominated, for a while. Cleanest nicest shop I ever seen. The best part was the hardware store across the street. My shop will be next door or above one.


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## GMLRS (Feb 20, 2010)

precisionworks said:


> My Indicol + Interapid is used the most ... but for some jobs, nothing beats a Blake Co-Ax. Very deep holes are a breeze, something that's nearly impossible with an Interapid.



Always did like the 2 inch long dial test indicator tips. We probably used them because of their very large graduations. I was trained in very very high precision (.0001-.00001 even in plastic, and very exotic materials), finishes of 2 microinches). toolmaking is how you graduate and advance in big shop. gotta love those .0001 taper per inch callouts.


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## precisionworks (Feb 20, 2010)

> Cleanest nicest shop I ever seen.



You gotta love a clean, well organized shop. The Gurney-Savage car is one of many that is maintained by R&R Motorsports, within easy walking distance of my shop. The "inside" shop area is nearly as clean as a hospital surgery suite, and the "outside" area (which includes a chassis dyno) is almost as nice.

For some cool eye candy, click on http://www.rrmotorsports.net/Photos.html


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## StrikerDown (Feb 20, 2010)

Cool eye candy! 

Every shop needs one of these :nana::


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## saltytri (Feb 20, 2010)

Factory Five?


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## StrikerDown (Feb 20, 2010)

Yup.


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## saltytri (Feb 20, 2010)

Sweet! 

Kirkham here.


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## StrikerDown (Feb 20, 2010)

OMG! Those are just too cool! There is one here in the Nor Cal Cobra club. It has over 500cid and even more HP! Talk about loud... ear plugs are required! Mine does 0-60 in under 4 seconds and I can't keep up with him. Maurice's car has the brushed finish. I can't tell in the pic do you have stripes?

PS: I'm jealous! :rock:


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## saltytri (Feb 20, 2010)

No stripes. It's all polished. I decided to do a street car instead of an SC just to be different. Pipes under the frame, no hood scoop, no chin scoop. It emulates the "289 Sports" that AC sold on their side of the pond using a small block in the 427 coil spring chassis and body. It's nicely balanced with the little bitty motor and does nicely in the curves but it still manages to get out of its own way. The 331 stroker does 420 lb/ft and 450 hp so it's not too much of an embarrassment, even if it is a small block.


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## StrikerDown (Feb 20, 2010)

Not a slouch by any means, probably faster than anything less than a high dollar Fararara! Vettes think they are hot til they smell your exhaust! Have you raced any Vipers yet. I'm looking for one :naughty:

I like the look you have there, hardly ever see the SC style! Very unique.


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## GMLRS (Feb 21, 2010)

Ford did have a lot of nicest the engines in the old days. This car needs a ford engine, was only 50,000$.

Ultima GTR Recognized on October 7, 2008 by the World Records Academy as the world's fastest street-legal car.

http://pic.pbsrc.com/spacer.gif
ecently Ultima have focused their marketing efforts on record-breaking activities using a model equipped with a 640 bhp (477 kW) American Speed engine, which is called the Ultima GTR640, and subsequently, a 720 bhp (537 kW) engine which is called the GTR720. As a result, they have established the following official, independently verified records[3] for a production car equipped with road tires and exhaust:
Fastest 0-60 mph (97 km/h) time: 2.6 seconds[3]
Fastest 0-100 mph (160 km/h) time: 5.3 seconds[3]
Fastest 30 mph (48 km/h)-70 mph (110 km/h) time: 1.8 seconds[3]
Fastest 100 mph (160 km/h)- 0 mph time: 3.6 seconds[3]
Fastest 0-100 mph (160 km/h)- 0 mph time: 9.4 seconds[3]
Best performance on a skidpad: 1.176g lateral grip in a 200 ft (60 m) circle.
Fastest road car over the 1/4 mile: 9.9 seconds @ 143 mph (230 km/h)
Due to its curb weight of 990 kg (2,183 lb)[4], the power-to-weight ratio for the GTR720 is 727 hp (542 kW) per tonne, which is a better ratio than the Bugatti Veyron, Enzo Ferrari, Ascari A10, Koenigsegg CCX or CCGT (but less than the Koenigsegg CCXR), it's also lesser to the Caparo T1. However, the Ultima chassis is rated for engines up to 1,000 bhp (700 kW) and some of Ultima's customers have fitted engines producing 1,000 bhp (700 kW) or more[5], for a power-to-weight ratio of over 1,000 hp (746 kW) per 1000lbs

Or a titanium porche roller motor.


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## GMLRS (Feb 21, 2010)

http://www.ultimagtr640.com/ultimagtr640/gtr71.jpg


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## GMLRS (Feb 21, 2010)

ToyotaGTP99 1830 lbs 750 hp 2.1 Mark III: powered by a compact but powerful turbocharged Toyota four-cylinder engine, it dominated the 1992 and 1993 IMSA championships, wining 21 of the 27 races it entered.

http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewCarPic=y&source=carGal&carID=3829&pgID=1&pID=804902


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## saltytri (Feb 21, 2010)

That thing is a Chebbie. Get back on topic.


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## GMLRS (Feb 21, 2010)

saltytri said:


> That thing is a Chebbie. Get back on topic.



They recommend a chevy but you buy it as a Roller, (no motor) this is a machining discussions thread. we were discussing fabrication and restoration shop, after hole centering and dial test indication.:touche::wave:


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## GMLRS (Feb 21, 2010)

"Ford did have a lot of nicest the engines in the old days. This car needs a ford engine"


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## gadget_lover (Feb 21, 2010)

What is the internal mechanism of a Blake? I imagine a simple pivot holding the probe, with a tang that rides inside a taper that is attached to feeler of a dial test indicator. 

It could also be done by having a ball mounted to the end of a dial indicator, with the end of the pivoting probe moving in and out, touching various surfaces of the ball.

Anyone have a sectional drawing of the mechanism?

Daniel


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## precisionworks (Feb 21, 2010)

US Patent 2,814,124 shows the mechanism & gives a description of the workings.


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## gadget_lover (Feb 22, 2010)

Very clever. Thanks Barry.


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## darkzero (Mar 6, 2010)

We were taught how to use one today. Didn't pay attention to the brand & it probably wasn't a Blake but it looks pretty much identical from what I remember. I used one to adjust the table, head, & vise today on a BP before squaring a block. Definitely one of those tools for my wish list now that I know how to use one.


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## StrikerDown (Mar 6, 2010)

Pretty cool huh?


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## precisionworks (Jul 12, 2010)

I used the Blake Co-Ax a few times over the weekend & realized that more "feelers" are needed ... available from Blake (or MSC) for about $25 each. MSC also lists the SPI feeler set, no doubt made in China, for $83. With their current discount code *TOP45W*, the price for the six piece SPI set is $53.95.

If they fit my Blake, I'll be happy


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## precisionworks (Jul 13, 2010)

> If they fit my Blake, I'll be happy


Wouldn't you know, the SPI feelers are .0080" larger than Blake feelers. Mounted a new DCGT-32.50.5 Alu-Pro insert, set the spindle for 2000 rpm, and turned down all the shanks.

FWIW, the Blake shank is .1873" and the SPI shank is just under 5mm (just under .196). Other than the larger shank, the SPI feelers are well made & nicely finished, certainly worth the money.


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