# Flashlight Technology 1984-1988



## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

Between 1984 and 1988 the [incandescent] flashlight industry was modernized. 




Prior to that several things must have happened first: 




The Kel Lite of the 1960s had provided flashlight users with aircraft aluminum and many flashlight producers jumped on that bandwagon.




In the 1970s Halogen and Noble fill gasses were starting to be used in flashlight bulbs.




At some point the bi-pin bulb was created.




In the 1980s Laser Products (now Sure Fire) introduced using Lithium camera batteries to power flashlights




These innovations lasted well into the next two decades until LED's became more efficient in terms of brightness, run time and compactness.




What made these lights so great (and will be discussed here) is the development of the high intensity bi-pin bulb, Halogen and Noble fill gasses and for at least one of the models high density Lithium camera batteries. When the flashlights of 1984-1988 used one or more of these technologies, all flashlight users were astounded and still are.

These lights still have niche use and can still be fit for medical and military applications where excellent color rendering and night vision compatibility are needed.




Let me also stress that each of these flashlights (if in their original stock condition) will all survive an EMP blast, whereas many if not all LED flashlights will be ruined. I seriously believe that flashlight companies should put pressure on their LED circuit designers to come up with an EMP proof LED system. Seriously, how hard could it be? Until then, everyone should cling to their incandescent flashlights, just in case our enemies decide to fry our electronics.




The following flashlights and their features will be discussed in this piece.

They are as listed:

Eveready Halogen Line 2251, 2352, 2252, 209 and possibly others.Rayovac Roughneck Line R2C, R2D, R3D, R2AA, etc.

These first two lines came out in 1988 and seemed as if one was the answer to the other. These light incorporated the use of rugged but affordable plastics and high quality, long lasting Halogen/Xenon bulbs. Well the Rayovac Roughneck line initially used Krypton bulbs when they first came out but later used Xenon/Halogen bulbs as well. They could take a beating and had a quality switch system. The Eveready 2251 was rebranded for Radio Shack. The Eveready 209 was one of the American versions of the Australian Dolphin. The Australian Dolphin didn't get a Xenon/Halogen bulb until 2007 when the Mark 6 hit the market.




Mini Maglite, Brinkmann Copies and Streamlight Junior

These lights ran on 2 AA or 2 AAA batteries but had the brightness equivalent of a 2 D cell flashlight. From my research I read that they even claimed this. A 9-14 Lumen output claim appears to be a true statement. All except for the Streamlight Junior used bi-pin bulbs (someone correct me if I am wrong.) Some of the Brinkmann copies had a lockout push button tail switch to prevent accidental activation. At least the Mini Maglite seemed to be a revolutionary light in the world of EDC gear and of course personal lighting back in 1984. It still is today for many, myself included. I've said it before and I'll say it again "The Mini Maglite can be used in both the medical and custodial arts and anything in between! It can meet the needs of a surgeon but still be affordable on a janitor's wages." Brinkmann tried copying the Mini Maglite and was hit with a lawsuit, but later produced their own versions of pocket sized flashlights. I'm not exactly sure if Streamlight was sued because of their Junior model or something else, but I never tried that model to begin with.

Maglite Solitaire use of a bi-pin bulb running on a single AAA battery, very high quality material and minimal size.

The brightness on this model is mediocre, but for what it was intended (finding that key hole in total darkness) it is still a winner. Mag Instrument had designed a light that was bright enough, yet weighed less than an ounce with the battery installed. This light too was achieved because of bi-pin bulb technology.




SureFire 6 and others.

These lights took advantage of compact but high capacity camera batteries to power their elite quality lamp modules. To top it off Laser Products (then owner of Sure Fire) used high quality aluminum for the bodies of their flashlights (a technique borrowed from Kel Lite and Maglite.) The company initially produced lasers for aiming systems on weapons, but then decided to develop a tactical flashlight that was (in my words) "shorter than a Mini Maglite, but bright as a 4 D Cell Maglite." it was an instant hit (especially in the tactical world.) I've had conflicting reports on when the first Sure Fire flashlight was made. Some say 1985, others 1987 and then even other sources say 1988. Either which way, it was the elite flashlight for the elite of users. Sure Fire still is in my honest opinion the elite of flashlights for the elite of users. Unfortunately it has a price barrier that only the elite can justify breaking.

All of these flashlights mentioned were great, though advances in LED technology have put them on the wayside. However, one can still get some of them brand new and one can still get some of them as NOS or even used and still in fine working condition. For the Sure Fire, Mini Maglite and Maglite Solitaire there are still modern version of these with slightly different configurations, but still incandescent. I hope this has been a pleasant trip down memory lane.




I am open for corrections.




Do I leave out any models?




Let me know...


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## bykfixer (Feb 23, 2016)

^^ thank you for that.



Best I've been able to find in my research Streamlight was big enough back then to scare Mag from frivolous lawsuits and had enough of their own patents to win if need be. So if Mag went after them for their "Jr" model, it likely would've ended like when Coke sued Pepsi for using the word Cola....a judge ruled "it's a bean...anybody can use that word"...and so the case was dismissed. 

Streamlight built a 5 million candle power 'flashlight' so to speak for NASA in or about '73/74. Soon after the public was able to acquire 1 million candle power Streamlights. 
They were on solid ground long before Tony Mag-whats-his-face began his Bill Gates-esque attempt at monopolizing the flashlight industry....I say Bill Gates only because he too tried (albiet by different tactics) to dominate his industry. 

The Mag sued everybody thing still has a few folks miff'd so I won't go into that in general, but will say they took out a few up and come-ers so things may have been drastically different in a good way regarding your list of 'elites'....

Regarding EMP's taking out all but incans....we're good to go at the Bykfixer house if that occurs. And getting better with each arrival by Mr. Postman.

Member 'PK' was part of the 6P and many other still relevant items, but I do not know when he stepped in. I only know he started PK Design Labs not long ago and any comments here revolve around that and not 'life at SureFire'...
I only know it has been said he is largely the reason for a whole bunch of products we use today...whether it be his ideas or similar.


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## PROTOOLNUT (Feb 23, 2016)

Great article write up, it was really informative! I would like to hear an explanation on the crappy LED flashlights that were all made in the OT years before CREE got big. I am talking about several flashlights which I own that use indicator light based LED bulbs to produce light. They seem bright at first, then get dim with age, and are nothing compared to those square yellow based CREE bulbs. So what was the deal anyways, to fool the public like myself to spend my money on crap lights sold in brick and mortar stores to make a quick buck off our ignornance or what?


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> ^^ thank you for that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for that extra information!

I really enjoyed it especially about Streamlight and NASA.

Thank you for helping me clarify the other stuff about Mag's lawsuits.


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## PROTOOLNUT (Feb 23, 2016)

ericjohn said:


> Thank you for that extra information!
> 
> I really enjoyed it especially about Streamlight and NASA.
> 
> Thank you for helping me clarify the other stuff about Mag's lawsuits.




Yeah, sounded like Mag was on a manhunt to crush the competitors. Typical Microsoft type BS. Incase Mag forgot, this country, you know the USA, is a democracy. The flag itself stands for freedom, so what does that tell you? Everybody has the right to create their own flashlight, and you cry wolf everytime when someone creates a light that looks simular to yours, don't expect people will actually believe you when someone really does in the future. :shakehead


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

I had three [entry level] LED flashlights before I got a Mini Maglite.

The first one (which I still have) is a 2003 Energizer Rechargeable Premium line light.

The other two (which I gave to a friend) are:

an Aircraft Aluminum Garrity which used a single Nichia LED and took 3 AAA batteries (my first EDC flashlight I got in May of 2005.) It served me well in post Katrina Louisiana.

AND

an Aircraft Aluminum Dorcy 1 Watt (or maybe 3 Watt) 3 AAA LED flashlight (it resembled a Sure Fire in many ways.) I bought it shortly after Hurricane Rita and EDCed it until December 2005.

Both were purchased at Wal Mart since I didn't know one could use a debit card for online purchases.

I just have one question what does "OT" stand for in your post? Forgive my ignorance.

I'm guessing that the indicator type LED was all they had in those days, but I'm not sure.

C. Crane made the first LED flashlight in 1998, and I believe it too was with those indicator LEDs. I first saw it in 2002, but my interest in flashlights didn't come back to me until 2005.


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

Anyway on a somewhat unrelated topic:

I submit my essay about how flashlights that were developed around 1988 were what modernized the industry and the WSR-88D RADAR tower that serves my area (KLIX) was damaged by a lightning strike.

For those who don't know WSR-88D stands for Weather Surveillance Radar 1988 Doppler.

Does anyone else find that frighteningly ironic?

There has been plenty of severe weather passing through my state today and I actually took advantage of that weather (when it wasn't lightning) to write my essay.

Speaking of lightning, I just saw it so I'm unplugging once again.

God bless!


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## PROTOOLNUT (Feb 23, 2016)

ericjohn said:


> I had three [entry level] LED flashlights before I got a Mini Maglite.
> 
> The first one (which I still have) is a 2003 Energizer Rechargeable Premium line light.
> 
> ...




Hey John nice to meet you!

When I say OT years, I am refering to year 2000 to 2009. I never really noticed CREE based LED lights till probably 2013 to 2014, and I think thats because thats when they were starting to get cheap enough for most people to afford, and thats when things show up on Amazon, my favorite shopping store!  Thankyou for sharing your flashlight history with me as well. 

I kind of would like to know when different people jumped to quality LED for their all around flashlights. Truth is, these bulbs are so bright now that I question weather incandescent still has a place in this world? Thats another good question to ask the forum. Cause I know when CD's came out, people were still holding onto their vinyl records. 

Gosh I got thread ideas flying out of my butt, I can't tell if thats a good thing or not


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## Skeeterg (Feb 23, 2016)

Great read,thanks for sharing


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## bykfixer (Feb 23, 2016)

ericjohn said:


> Thank you for that extra information!
> 
> I really enjoyed it especially about Streamlight and NASA.
> 
> Thank you for helping me clarify the other stuff about Mag's lawsuits.



I kinda tuned out the Mag vs the rest of the world back then. Frankly I don't regret it...otherwise I might still harbor ill feelings and not have had so much fun carrying a 4C the other night for the first time since.... probably around the time America was re-electing Reagan and I was borrowing one of my parents to find something after dark in our (then) un-electrified garage. 

I'll say this about the Mag vs everybody then leave it be. There was a massive push for less costly items and stuff was coming from Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan that was good enough to catch on with the American public due largely from the 25% of Amercan goods price tag. Part of what Mag did back then was thwart being put out of business by that. 
I have an A&N label Asian made light that was brighter than a minimag, had a clicky and a better beam. A minimag was $19. The A&N was $4. 
The rest of the MagLite deal I won't try to defend, nor state an opinion on....this thread aint about that. 

Now regarding the multi LED emitter light...
Basically once upon a time the LED wasn't very bright. (Gasp)...you youngsters may not know this, but early _consumer_ LED lights had to include several side by side emitters to be as bright as a Mag Solitaire with a fresh battery. Those with only 3 were absolutely ridiculous....so bad it's a wonder it caught on with the masses.
I speculate via gut feeling lots of advances took place due to once again..NASA space program and their gimongous R&D budgets.


At some Point Streamlight did their C4 technology. It made a huge impact on the world of 'cop lights' 

I have an early LED Lenser V2 (3 beam) that has 3 side by side emitters that I used as a night light for years. It was nice and dull, unlike that super bright mini mag incan back then. I have another old LL still new in package called 'turbo torch' that put out an amazing 12 lumens!!! It's an early Coast product whos claim to fame was ' the new power chip and reflector put out 2-1/2 times more light than the previous V2's. (Neither list a web address btw, but phone number instead)

Folks started bragging about the amazing super bright "5 LED light"....then 7....9!!!...each put out about 3 blue lumens...we called 'em "blumens" back then...but it sure was better than the purple beam of the even earlier consumer LED light. 

Around 02 (+/- a couple of years based on dates of threads here at CPF) Pelican came out with their LED version of the 100 lumen incan M6. It was a whopping 41 lumens, which at that time was pretty good. 

They still make those multi LED lights because people still buy them. 

To me the irony is that as bright as those little LED's are these days...folks are doing side by side emitters..."triples" and "quads" they're called. Folks marvel over them...like folks did some 15 years ago about what are now considered junk by many. But back then the CPF folks were doing incans that to this day still rival or outdo the modern LED

Just the other day I read a post from another member showing his *3000* lumen incan Mag 4D....100 watt bulb.

You may have seen it Eric.

Much of the stuff I mention was found in old threads here at the site.
When I first arrived I revived old threads to see how folks still feel, or introduce a new crowd to the thinking back then. I used to spend 2-3 hours a day reading old threads my first few weeks before joining.


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## Pilotodude (Feb 23, 2016)

As someone born in the mid 60s that grew up using predominately 2-D cell lights until around 1984 +/- , I can't really put into words how awesome it was watching all of this new technology emerge in the 80s. I think we are seeing a resurgence now with the latest technology jump with LEDs and batteries.

I agree with one of the above posts though that Streamlight needs to be included as they really set about the market for the rechargeable flashlight. The SL-20 with its halogen bulb and rechargeable battery was light years ahead of anything out at the time. It was plug-and-play, as well as pretty much indestructible as long as you didn't drop the darn thing when the light was turned on. Ask me how I know about that one. [emoji52]

Maglite and its Mag-charger tried to compete with Streamlight but it was really like the Russians trying to compete with us on the Moonlanding.

Kel-Lite dried up as Mag Lite basically perfected the aircraft aluminum tube flashlight that uses normal batteries. The Mini-mag lite was another game changer that that company perfected. It might be Worth researching as to why Kel-Lite disappeared so quickly in the mid-80s. I wonder if mag lights lawsuits had anything to do with it???? If not that, my guess was the switch. If I remember, the Kel-Lite I had used a switch that was pretty archaic. The push button Mag was pretty slick. A much better interface than the "kill-light" imho.


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## PROTOOLNUT (Feb 23, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> I kinda tuned out the Mag vs the rest of the world back then. Frankly I don't regret it...otherwise I might still harbor ill feelings and not have had so much fun carrying a 4C the other night for the first time since.... probably around the time America was re-electing Reagan and I was borrowing one of my parents to find something after dark in our (then) un-electrified garage.
> 
> Now regarding the multi LED emitter light...
> Basically once upon a time the LED wasn't very bright. (Gasp)...you youngsters may not know this, but early _consumer_ LED lights had to include several side by side emitters to be as bright as a Mag Solitaire with a fresh battery. Those with only 3 were absolutely ridiculous....so bad it's a wonder it caught on with the masses.
> ...



 Thankyou so much for explaining it to me John cause I was honestly confused as to what was going on. Its nice to know that my assumptions were not too far off. They needed to create a light that consumer could afford, but a single LED of that type puts out like 3 lumens like you said, so thats why they needed so many. The light I showed in my post was my last purchase of that type of light. It lasted like a year of being bright, now all it does is being dim, you can put fresh batteries in it, still dim.

And after I took a closeup picture of it today, since my camera see's better then I do, I looked at the full size picture and it appears there are cracks in some of the LED's, this could be a reason why the light is dim now. Thank goodness I discovered CREE. I love the LED technology so much that I bought a set of auxilery headlights for my rig, they are 27 watts each and have a rated output of 2000 lumens, after seeing what my EC4 is capable of doing, I can tell you that rating is not overinflated.


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## Caesar Tjalbo (Feb 23, 2016)

Pilotodude said:


> As someone born in the mid 60s that grew up using predominately 2-D cell lights until around 1984 +/- , I can't really put into words how awesome it was watching all of this new technology emerge in the 80s. I think we are seeing a resurgence now with the latest technology jump with LEDs and batteries.


I was born it the '70s. Flashlights were basically things I hated. The lamp was a tiny screw fitting light, similar to the one I had on my bike (we're talking about the Netherlands here). 2 D batteries indeed. So incredibly useless. There were 2 possibilities: when you needed the flashlight, the batteries were empty and or the light was insufficient anyway for what you needed. The maglites felt like a revolution, albeit one with a price tag. 

Being able to buy a dirt cheap, tiny, lightweight led flashlight that'll run near forever on an AAA battery, is still like a miracle to me.


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## bykfixer (Feb 23, 2016)

^^ miracle to me too.

More good info Pilotodude....
Mag had that 'rotary' clicky thing going.

Back then (Jimmy Carter era) I was likely the kind of person you were protecting the rest of the folks from...not some petty criminal mind you.

But certainly not 'role model' type like you were....so a lot of my time was spent hiding from folks like you...(we were more scared that if you caught us that meant you were going to notify our parents, which was way scarier.lol) 

A flashlight was not on my edc list...back then it woulda been "lighter: check, check, cigarettes: check, rolling papers: check, beer money: check."...


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## PROTOOLNUT (Feb 23, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> ^^ miracle to me too.
> 
> More good info Pilotdude....
> 
> Back then I was likely the kind of person you were protecting the rest of the folks from...not some petty criminal mind you, but certainly not 'role model' type like you were.




I was a little sh** when I was a kid. And when I was a kid, we didn't have no LED flashlights, we had incandescent. And we didn't even have good incandescents either! We had those stupid store bought ever ready's where the beam was dim and the batteries rattled inside. 

Oh wait, it gets worse. So say you want a flood light? Well ever wondered what those 6 volt brick batteries were for? Yep you guessed it, they were for those square yellow flood lights. For a battery of that size, you'd think you would get more light output from them, but more often then not you would loose battery contact and you would have to shake the light to get it back again.

The 90's era Maglight was truly my first quality incandescent light. How did I find out about them? Well police used them of course, I found out why too, skull crushing steel heavy construction. Cause it sure as hell wasn't for the brightness, cause you couldn't get brightness even close to resembling modern day CREE unless you bought a massive 6 Cell Maglite, but by then the beast is so big you can't even holster it anymore. lol

And then Jurassic Park was introduced to the world, and being the silly kid I was, of course my mouth was watering over them what looked like 12 volt flood lights they were using in the film. Now those were bright lights for their time I have to admit, they must have pumped out at least 300 lumens. But the problem with them is that they were huge!

The first tactical incadescent based light I ever saw was probably year 2000, and I think the light cost and arm and a leg too so I never could afford it. I truly believe flashlights went through a revolution in the past 15 years.


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> I kinda tuned out the Mag vs the rest of the world back then. Frankly I don't regret it...otherwise I might still harbor ill feelings and not have had so much fun carrying a 4C the other night for the first time since.... probably around the time America was re-electing Reagan and I was borrowing one of my parents to find something after dark in our (then) un-electrified garage.
> 
> I'll say this about the Mag vs everybody then leave it be. There was a massive push for less costly items and stuff was coming from Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan that was good enough to catch on with the American public due largely from the 25% of Amercan goods price tag. Part of what Mag did back then was thwart being put out of business by that.
> I have an A&N label Asian made light that was brighter than a minimag, had a clicky and a better beam. A minimag was $19. The A&N was $4.
> ...



That was VERY interesting and informative!

I do remember some of those LED flashlights and configurations that were on the market in my late teens and early twenties (2004-2009.)

What I always noticed (and read MANY times over) is that incandescent flashlights could throw much farther than LEDs. Even when comparing my Dorcy LED to my first Mini Maglite, I noticed how the MM could throw very far. LED's are getting close with the throw, but I don't think they're caught up with incandescents yet...


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## bykfixer (Feb 23, 2016)

Reflector technology has also advanced...not some new fangled materials and all, but more companies have figured out how to make them cast light like a good open face reel casts a spinner bait. 
I figure it must not have been easy though...otherwise more wouldv'e done it sooner. 

It's a lot of why Mags, 6P's and Streamlights _seemed_ so bright vs the others.

It's why Coast could suddenly brag about that 12 lumen turbo torch.

Orange peel reflectors still amaze me.


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

Pilotodude said:


> As someone born in the mid 60s that grew up using predominately 2-D cell lights until around 1984 +/- , I can't really put into words how awesome it was watching all of this new technology emerge in the 80s. I think we are seeing a resurgence now with the latest technology jump with LEDs and batteries.
> 
> I agree with one of the above posts though that Streamlight needs to be included as they really set about the market for the rechargeable flashlight. The SL-20 with its halogen bulb and rechargeable battery was light years ahead of anything out at the time. It was plug-and-play, as well as pretty much indestructible as long as you didn't drop the darn thing when the light was turned on. Ask me how I know about that one. [emoji52]
> 
> ...



I bet you could tell some stories!

I would like to read about why one shouldn't drop an SL-20 when it's on.

Was there ever an SL-20 that could run on D batteries?

I've seen conflicting reports on whether it could or couldn't.

I wish I could get my hands on an original Mag Charger. My Great Aunt had her husband's but she threw it away after he passed. 

What I don't get though, is Kel Lite eventually had a clicky switch on its third generation model. I think Brinkmann still uses that switch design on their Legend flashlights. 

On a slightly related topic, I have a Brinkmann 2 AAA inspection light mint in package and it says it was made by The Keller Company a Divsion of Brinkmann and Copyright 1988. 

Also my Radio Shack 3 D Aluminum flashlight has a [reverse] click switch. I'm looking to get an O-Ring for it.


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

Caesar Tjalbo said:


> Being able to buy a dirt cheap, tiny, lightweight led flashlight that'll run near forever on an AAA battery, is still like a miracle to me.



I think that is the biggest selling point to even the most inferior LED flashlights...


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

PROTOOLNUT said:


> I was a little sh** when I was a kid. And when I was a kid, we didn't have no LED flashlights, we had incandescent. And we didn't even have good incandescents either! We had those stupid store bought ever ready's where the beam was dim and the batteries rattled inside.
> 
> Oh wait, it gets worse. So say you want a flood light? Well ever wondered what those 6 volt brick batteries were for? Yep you guessed it, they were for those square yellow flood lights. For a battery of that size, you'd think you would get more light output from them, but more often then not you would loose battery contact and you would have to shake the light to get it back again.
> 
> ...



I do remember the 6 Volt lanterns and I even have a few of them (Mostly Garrity and Eveready.) My Paw Paw swore by those things and he still uses them even at 91 going on 92. My parents had a rare Nicholl Brothers lantern, but my mom threw it away (Halloween Night 1991) when the bulb blew. I was probably a VERY angry four year old too when she did that. We had actually lost several good flashlights because my mom refused to buy a replacement bulb.

When we thought Hurricane Erin was coming to Louisiana in 1995 (it actually went to Florida, I think.) My dad bought either a Rayovac I2D or an Eveready IN-251 (or possibly 1251.) It was a bigger version of my Eveready IN-215 (or possibly 1151.) I don't know what happened to that 2 D light either, but damn it was bright. Hurricane Opal pulled a similar stunt later that year.

My dad bought me a 4 D Cell Maglite in the Fall of 1998 and I had it until the Fall of 2003 when my brother borrowed it and forgot to turn it off.

I first saw Sure Fire in a Gall's catalog in 2003, but a sixteen year old with no steady job could never afford one. i don't think my parents wanted me working as they wanted me to focus on graduating high school. At any rate at that time in my life, I was more interested in scanners and radio communications. I had also ordered a Sure Fire catalog around that time (for whatever reason, I guess the flashlight addiction lay dormant, but still very much there.) In that catalog, I read about how a Sure Fire saved a rancher's life when it took a bullet for him and still came on afterwards.


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

PROTOOLNUT said:


> Hey John nice to meet you!
> 
> When I say OT years, I am refering to year 2000 to 2009. I never really noticed CREE based LED lights till probably 2013 to 2014, and I think thats because thats when they were starting to get cheap enough for most people to afford, and thats when things show up on Amazon, my favorite shopping store!  Thankyou for sharing your flashlight history with me as well.
> 
> ...



I first read about Cree in 2012 and it was probably on here (CPF.) That year I got my first Mini Maglite Pro, which had to be special ordered from Home Depot. I had lent it to my in laws and they lost it but then I found it last year! It's now in my briefcase I use for severe weather/hurricane evacuation. The MM Pro has a slightly blue tint, but the 2 AAA Mini Maglite LED has a more pure white tint. Maglite needs to make one with a warm tint now, but I won't hold my breath.

It was 2012 I would say when LEDs began to advance because that's when Maglite first started to turn out quality LED flashlights.

The first run of LED's Maglite made in 2006 were okay for the time, the second run in 2008-2009 weren't as nice as their competitors', but from 2012 onward Maglite got serious.

I would definitely say hold on to both CD's and vinyl records because they are probably already worth something, especially the latter.


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## ericjohn (Feb 23, 2016)

Skeeterg said:


> Great read,thanks for sharing



You're most definitely welcome.

I'm happy you enjoyed it!


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## Pilotodude (Feb 23, 2016)

ericjohn said:


> I would like to read about why one shouldn't drop an SL-20 when it's on.



The answer is not is sinister as you would think. Simply put, the bulb would fail. It would fry instantaneously. If it was not turned on, you could drop it and 99% of the time it will be fine.

At least with the Gen-1 and Gen-2 SL-20, the bulb was cemented into the reflector assembly. Back in 1980-something dollars, a replacement bulb "assembly" was $20-$25. That was REALLY lot of money back then. Let's just say I didn't drop it very often. I think MOST brands of lights would react the same way, but IMHO, the price of the SL-20 bulb tended to make sure one took care of it. Mag and Kel bulbs were about $5 respectively.

I've "heard" about people dropping in 3 or 4 D-cells (not sure how many would fit) in a pinch, but I've never tried it nor known anyone that has. 

As far as I remember, there was not another light that came along that revolutionized things like the SL-20 did until Surefire came along. 

Enjoy the ride now folks. We are witnessing another evolution right now with the LEDS and new batteries. If the trend follows the ones in the past, when this technology growth spurt fizzles out, it will be about another 20-25 years before the next one.

It's OK bykfixer... I was a snot nosed punk once. We all went through our phases. I just learned that is was more fun to do the chasing, than to be chased. :duh2: Even then, I didn't mess with the neighborhood kids. I went after the wife-beaters, crackheads and burglars.


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## bykfixer (Feb 23, 2016)

^^ I work construction and at times we hire state troopers to work in our work zones.

One day a trooper says "I remember you"...my heart sank..."uh oh" I thought....
Then he says "remember that time we were running down the beach from the cops while trying to carry a 12 pack in each hand?"

Turns out he used to pal around with my twin brother...

Just saw him late in 015. He still uses an incan SL20 and a 6P. He says "one of these days I'll go LED."


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## eh4 (Feb 24, 2016)

A flashlight was a "flash-light" when I was growing up. If you wanted a good beam you turned it on, got a good look, and then turned it back off and walked to your next reference point that you'd spied with the light, otherwise it was a matter of walking along with a dimmer and dimmer light, and the vague feeling that you were making some kind of terrible mistake, walking down into the fog, heading home.


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## PROTOOLNUT (Feb 24, 2016)

eh4 said:


> A flashlight was a "flash-light" when I was growing up. If you wanted a good beam you turned it on, got a good look, and then turned it back off and walked to your next reference point that you'd spied with the light, otherwise it was a matter of walking along with a dimmer and dimmer light, and the vague feeling that you were making some kind of terrible mistake, walking down into the fog, heading home.



You were! Remember in the movie The Myst? It was a very bad idea to go out in the Myst. But fear not, these new lights destroy darkness and fog.


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## Slumber (Feb 24, 2016)

Here's a great, pic heavy thread of a large Police Flashlight collection, most from the 70's and 80's. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?272627-The-ABTOMAT-Police-Flashlight-Collection


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## Minimoog (Feb 24, 2016)

Good thread and good thoughts. Back in the 1980's I had an imported Streamlight Jnr. which a local hiking shop was selling. That little thing was a miracle but the vacuum bulbs went black almost instantly, and I always though that it was a shame that they did not get the jump on Mag and use Krypton. The trouble was the bulbs are not available in the UK and whilst I just put mine in a box without batteries, the fact tha bulbs were not available irritated people greatly - I remember one person smashing his Streamlight with a hammer until it was completely flat in disgust. Others were just binned.

In the time period you speak about we had the Durabeam range which I feel were the first lights to use Krypton that were feely available. The first Halogen bulbs were first seen in the bicycle lights, and the first time I saw it in a torch was in the flat Philips 3AA light that had a sliding front panel and lanyard. I remember paying out heavily for that and marveling at the Halogen whiteness, which had a 'flowing water' effect on the ceiling. Not seen that effect since. That was about 1987, I still have that light.


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## PROTOOLNUT (Feb 24, 2016)

Slumber Pass said:


> Here's a great, pic heavy thread of a large Police Flashlight collection, most from the 70's and 80's.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?272627-The-ABTOMAT-Police-Flashlight-Collection




That thread was more awesome then awesome itself, I theroughly enjoyed the post, so many great antique flashlights which I never saw growing up. I didn't know that streamlight bought Kel-lite, I assumed that Maglite crushed Kel-lite with frivolous lawsuits. So back in the 80's, it was pretty much competition between Streamlight and Maglite. 

See, Mag was clearly trying to run a monopoly like Microsoft did around the same time, its the whole thing of, I we are the best and we must provent other's from becoming as good or better then we are by crushing them. I used to have a deep respect for Mag, but once I found that out I have lost respect for them.

Plus, have you seen modern Maglites? They aint made anywhere near as good as they used to. They got rid of the skull crushing steel and went with easy to bend aluminum. So now if a police man needs to hit an assailant over the head, they better use something else or they will break their flashlight. Plus there is no mass anymore to do that with the light weight of aluminum.

Streamlight is still making flashlights today right, CREE ones?


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## Pilotodude (Feb 24, 2016)

PROTOOLNUT said:


> That thread was more awesome then awesome itself, I theroughly enjoyed the post, so many great antique flashlights which I never saw growing up. I didn't know that streamlight bought Kel-lite, I assumed that Maglite crushed Kel-lite with frivolous lawsuits. So back in the 80's, it was pretty much competition between Streamlight and Maglite.



Agreed! Looking at that one really brought back some old memories. Not only did I see my old Kel-Lite, But I saw my original Streamlight SL-20 Gen-1 as well. I also saw quite a few lights that I simply hadn't seen in years. Interesting read about Streamlight VS Kel-Lite. I thought the same as you.



> See, Mag was clearly trying to run a monopoly like Microsoft did around the same time, its the whole thing of, I we are the best and we must provent other's from becoming as good or better then we are by crushing them. I used to have a deep respect for Mag, but once I found that out I have lost respect for them.



That was pretty sad indeed.



> Plus, have you seen modern Maglites? They aint made anywhere near as good as they used to. They got rid of the skull crushing steel and went with easy to bend aluminum. So now if a police man needs to hit an assailant over the head, they better use something else or they will break their flashlight. Plus there is no mass anymore to do that with the light weight of aluminum.



As someone that was a full time and part time LEO for 25 years, I and most others prefer the lighter weight of the aluminum bodies. When you have to carry that thing around with you along with everything else on your duty belt, the extra weight really starts adding up. Now, add the fact that *we were specifically trained never to use the flashlight as a impact weapon against a person.* It was drilled over and over that it was a flashlight, not a baton. If you ever hit somebody with it, you would probably be sued very quickly. Now, it was really nice having that big bulky baton looking flashlight, as the average dirt bag didn't know if you would hit him with it or not. It made a fantastic blocking device if somebody swung something at you, and with a "bust-a-cap" installed on the tailcap, made a very good window breaker should the need arise. In all my 25 years, I never hit anybody with the physical portion of my lights, just the light from it. It just wasn't needed. It sure was reassuring though knowing that in case of emergency, It could save your buns if you "had" to whack someone. Most of us never had to.

Now, having seen some really bad things on the street in the day, I think it's safe to say that with a professional grade heavy aluminum flashlight... If you ever hit somebody on the head hard enough to dent the light, you would've killed the person in the process. There just isn't the need for steel. Remember, these are lights, not weapons.



> Streamlight is still making flashlights today right, CREE ones?



Yes, still making really good lights. Many options out there now. Some of the newer ones will even accept 18650 cells. I'm not sure if they are Cree... They advertise C-4 currently... Up from C-1, 2, or 3. I'm guessing these are their contract manufactured proprietary LED bulbs. They are good quality, and put out a decent color temp..

With all of this said... If I had to go back in a patrol car tomorrow, I'd have a Streamlight SL-20 LED, and a Surefire on my belt as a back up. Yes, there are smaller lights, and brighter lights, but IMHO having that heavy bat looking light in your hand at night when you confront a bad guy carries a lot of weight in the psychological department. The bad guy might not be as apt to try assault you if he is not sure you won't crack him with it... Lets just say no one ever tried to hit me when I was holding my SL-20 at the ready.


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## bykfixer (Feb 24, 2016)

^^ did your co-officers use Stingers? 

Doesn't seem to be quite long enough to hold under-arm while writing a ticket, yet I feel pretty confident dog walking with it bare-ing a bust-a-cap for breaking glass of course.

I speak with local leo's at times in my job and surprisingly most still use incan versions of the SL 20. 

Thankfully Streamlight still makes many of their classic 'cop lights', but if you like warm tint the only option is incan. Their LED are all bright white. 

The ProTac HL4 should be EPIC!!!


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## Pilotodude (Feb 24, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> ^^ did your co-officers use Stingers?
> 
> Doesn't seem to be quite long enough to hold under-arm while writing a ticket, yet I feel pretty confident dog walking with it bare-ing a bust-a-cap for breaking glass of course.
> 
> ...



I had already promoted from Street patrol to a plainclothes detective position when the stinger came out, or at least became known about.

Even after the advent of the stinger, most patrolman that I know still prefer The full-size light such as the SL-20 for the reasons I mentioned in my last post. It's just good peace of mind knowing it's there if you need it. Again, there are smaller lights, there are brighter lights, but in my opinion nothing else does what the SL20 was designed to do, as well as the SL20 does it. It just feels a niche that really can't be replaced by anything else. At the end of the day if I have to get out of the patrol car and confront a bad guy at night, it's really nice to have that big SL20 in hand. Believe me, the bad guys notice. What are you going to do, tap me with your stinger? [emoji41]

I'd venture to guess that all of the guys still carrying around the incandescent versions that you see, simply don't know about the Malkoff SL20 drop in. If those would've been around back in my day, and I would have found out about it I surely would've bought one. 

The incandescent one does it's job well enough that it doesn't warrant throwing it in the dumpster and buying the new LED version. I would imagine when guys start having their incandescent ones wear out, they might upgrade to the new LED version.

Think of the SL 20 like a pencil. There are minor improvements out there, but the original design is really hard to beat.

Yes, I can't wait to read some reviews about that new prottac HL4.


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## bykfixer (Feb 24, 2016)

I was just curious about the Stinger and the leo.
It seems to be more suited for the folks who like a Mag 2C size light. (Read; homeowners, gen use)
I must admit, carrying a 4C in one hand and Stinger in the other causes the Stinger to seem...well... A bit whimpy in comparision. 

SL 20 to me was like the 6P... game changer in favor of the good guys.

I've yet to ask the officers if they carry incan because they're dept issue. Those guys are low paid so it may come down to economics yet they still use the SL 20 for the reasons you cite pilotodude.

I'd be curious to find out if Mag put out the 4C at the same time as D lights. It was so long ago I just don't remember when my mom bought her 4C... but do recall they had not been out very long. And also remember my dads D size light collected dust after the arrival of that C Mag.


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## Pilotodude (Feb 24, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> I was just curious about the Stinger and the leo.
> It seems to be more suited for the folks who like a Mag 2C size light. (Read; homeowners, gen use)
> I must admit, carrying a 4C in one hand and Stinger in the other causes the Stinger to seem...well... A bit whimpy in comparision.



Now factor in the aluminum SL-20 is much closer to look and feel to a D-cell as opposed to a C-cell. The aluminum ones have a great feel to them. They are hefty, and fairly intimidating. The poly-carbonate (plastic) ones, not so much...

For me... The stinger WAS a great light, and made the perfect light when I became a detective and worked crime scenes. It did not eat through 123 cells like a Surefire, and was small and light enough to stick in to back pocket of a pair of slacks. If I were a detective now days, I'd go for the Strion HL. Roughly the same size as a Surefire 6 with three settings, 125, 250 and 500 lumens. I've got one and LOVE IT. Man I wish that would have been around 20 years ago...


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## PROTOOLNUT (Feb 24, 2016)

Pilotodude said:


> Agreed! Looking at that one really brought back some old memories. Not only did I see my old Kel-Lite, But I saw my original Streamlight SL-20 Gen-1 as well. I also saw quite a few lights that I simply hadn't seen in years. Interesting read about Streamlight VS Kel-Lite. I thought the same as you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am glad there are LEO on this forum, who are able to clarify stuff like that. I didn't think about the added weight on the duty belt. And unlike what Maglite would have you believe, sounds like your training recommended against using the light as a baton. And I totally understand what you mean about the physiological defence.

I have one of those baton style tazers, and just triggering the crackle sound from the arking beam, is enough to scare an assailant away from you. Hell its so loud it scares even me lol. And then when you think about these bright Cree based flashlights, if I put that sucker on strobe mode, that is enough to disorient someone enough to either run away or strike.

I am sure your police training taught you all about using bright light to help gain an advantage, well that and pepper spray lol. I also have a tiny can of pepper spray for self defence. I figure anything that will send the message to the bad guy to stay away from me, or to allow me to evade is the best solution.

I didn't know that about the sheer force of cracking someone over the head with aluminum could be so fatal, so I don't want to do that then, cause self defence should never mean to kill, it should always mean to block or evade, I am sure you would agree.

I think your cool man, wouldn't mind learning more from you


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## Pilotodude (Feb 25, 2016)

PROTOOLNUT said:


> I think your cool man, wouldn't mind learning more from you



Thanks, but your giving me waaaay too much credit. I'm just a 50-something guy that hasn't worn the badge for about 3.5 years now. It's a young mans job. I do have some cool stories from "back in the day" though. I finally hung up my hat and will just stick to flying planes from now on. It's a lot safer, pays better, and I get more days off.

Happy to to talk shop anytime. It brings back great memories.


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## RWT1405 (Feb 25, 2016)

Great topic! 

Another light that was just before your 1984 time frame, is the LA Screw Products Inc "Smoke Cutter". 

I bought mine in 1982, while in Paramedic school (I started in EMS in 1979, and Fire in 1980). 

Having used just Mag lights prior to the Smoke Cutter, I was amazed how useful it was, for interior firefighting. 

In 1984 I bought my first Mini-Mag, for EDC, on duty and off, what a GREAT light, at the time!

In 1985 I bought my SL-20 (with the slide switch, I have to tell you that I think that was the best one they made!)

I've posted before about my flashlight journey, as a Paramedic, Firefighter, Tactical Medic, Flight Paramedic, etc, and will see if I can find it and re-post it, if that might interest any of you.


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## Pilotodude (Feb 25, 2016)

RWT1405 said:


> Great topic!
> Another light that was just before your 1984 time frame, is the LA Screw Products Inc "Smoke Cutter".
> I bought mine in 1982, while in Paramedic school (I started in EMS in 1979, and Fire in 1980).
> Having used just Mag lights prior to the Smoke Cutter, I was amazed how useful it was, for interior firefighting.
> ...



Yes, please re-post. Great trip down memory lane, as well as some real world practical/tactical info..

Agreed! I loved my SL-20 with the slide switch. A Streamlight dealer gave me $50 in trade for it when I finally moved on the the SL-20x around 1989. I think the charging sleeve and contacts were improved, but I still liked the slider better. I guess they were not as robust as the later bush button versions were. I think the sliders we're prone to getting dirt and dust inside. At the same time, if I remember correctly, they were fairly easy clean out and adjust if you had a problem. I know I worked on mine.

Before the Surefire came out. I too carried a Mini-Mag as back up and EDC. I ended up putting a red lens on it and used it at night. It came in real handy in the UH-1 when I was in the Army. The red lens would not blow your night vision. Good times.


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## bykfixer (Feb 25, 2016)

Smoke Cutter. Heck yeah!! Do tell.

You guys happen to remember the model # of the SL 20 with slide switch? 
I want to add one to my _museum_ type collection with some other Streamlights I acquired such as the TL2 shockproof and a gen 1 Strion.


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## Mr. Tone (Feb 25, 2016)

What a great thread . My first venture into decent flashlights during the mid 80s was a 4D Maglite. I felt so cool to have such a bright flashlight compared to others that most people had. When I first saw a Surefire 6P I couldn't believe that they got so much light out of a little flashlight. That further spurred my addiction when I realize that it was possible to get a lot of light out of a small host. Prior to seeing a 6P, I had never seen a CR123A. 

Then, my first great LED flashlight was a Fenix L2D-CE, which had an "incredible" 130ish lumens. Everybody that I showed the Fenix to was amazed that so much light came out of a 2AA flashlight. The Cree XR-E was another huge leap in flashlight tech, that's for sure. Nowadays, I have a hard time impressing anybody with any of my really nice lights.


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## dmattaponi (Feb 26, 2016)

I always had a thing for flashlights going back to young elementary school age. Nothing special about the lights in those years, but I can remember the silver bodied aluminum flashlights impressing me as a youth. Later got what I considered my first really good light in the mid 80's. a 4D Mag light. Thought it was the greatest flashlight in the world. Later carried a 4D Mag in vehicle, and kept a 3D Mag at home throughout the 90s until I found out about pocket sized Surefire, and a little later LED flashlights that made the Mag lights look pathetic in the mid 2000s. The pocket EDC replaced my Mag lights until recently when I purchased a few Thrunite TN4A for around the house and vehicle.


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## bykfixer (Feb 26, 2016)

^^ what's old is new again. 
This is a fun thread to watch. 

It's kinda like Eric asking "remember when flashlights had character?" as the modern light gets brighter and brighter, yet seemingly only becoming more of the same ole thing.


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## Minimoog (Mar 1, 2016)

Just fired up my Philips SBC 2002. I think that it is one of the very earliest halogen torches, dating from around 1987. When run, the beam looks like it is full of water - you can see the gasses swirling in the bulb envelope. It is still on its original bulb.

Complete light: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xnc6nmznvs72xzi/DSC_0485.jpg?dl=0
With sliding cover open: https://www.dropbox.com/s/748ixdztgvifzin/DSC_0486.jpg?dl=0
Inside the rear: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2jhmjr4f9rm2d49/DSC_0488.jpg?dl=0

It gives a decent beam, very white with a tight hotspot. The lanyard was factory fit.


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## ericjohn (Mar 2, 2016)

RWT1405 said:


> Great topic!
> 
> Another light that was just before your 1984 time frame, is the LA Screw Products Inc "Smoke Cutter".
> 
> ...



Smoke Cutters are EXTREMELY RARE nowadays so hold on to yours if you still have it.


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## ericjohn (Mar 2, 2016)

This is slightly off topic, but since everyone is talking about it.

The Sheriff's deputies in my Parish use Streamlight Xenon Stingers and have since at least 2006. I've seen them carried 2 AA Mini Maglite LED models as backups.

The State Troopers also use various Streamlight models. There is one who is a family friend of mine who uses a Streamlight Star Tac (I think he meant Super Tac, but I'm not sure.) The older State Troopers swore by the SL-20.

The Sheriff's Deputies and City Police southwest of me used Streamlight Twin Task models in the mid to late 2000s. They still might use them.


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## bykfixer (Mar 2, 2016)

My guess is local government agencies put out bids for certain characteristics and Streamlight can fulfill them, and ends up selling a buncha lights at once every so often since they last so long. Same way those agencies procure uniforms, other gear and patrol cars. 
And it's quite likely that the officers have to buy their own backups or simply choose to. 
Piloto could probably give us the real skinny on all that.

I remember my dad had a D Mag because the local police reccomended, or perhaps gave him one way back in the early MagLite days. 

The local yocals may have used SL 20's but my pop being my pop would not have paid what an SL 20 costed back then.


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## scout24 (Mar 3, 2016)

Good thread, and an interesting read...


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## swampgator (Mar 6, 2016)

ericjohn said:


> Was there ever an SL-20 that could run on D batteries?
> 
> I've seen conflicting reports on whether it could or couldn't.





Pilotodude said:


> I've "heard" about people dropping in 3 or 4 D-cells (not sure how many would fit) in a pinch, but I've never tried it nor known anyone that has.


IIRC an SL-20 can fit five D cells. The bulb is quite dim. 
I was given one years ago that someone did this to. Of course the batteries leaked and I could never get them out. 
The head doesn't come off like a Mag so I couldn't save it. 
It's still in my barn on my work bench to this day.


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## guthrie (Mar 6, 2016)

Multi-C and D cell maglites reached Scotland in the 1980's. I recall my dad using his police one (5 c cells) at scout camp circa 1989, and it was really impressive compared to the normal 2D cell poor torches made by Duracell or Ever Ready that were all that was really available. The maglite was of course used as more than a torch, but he didn't say much about that.

Edited to comment- the police in Scotland were still using hardwood batons at that time, 9 or 10 inches plus handle of very dense wood. IIRC side handled ones came along around then as well.


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## nitedrive (Mar 6, 2016)

PROTOOLNUT said:


> Yeah, sounded like Mag was on a manhunt to crush the competitors. Typical Microsoft type BS. Incase Mag forgot, this country, you know the USA, is a democracy. The flag itself stands for freedom, so what does that tell you? Everybody has the right to create their own flashlight, and you cry wolf everytime when someone creates a light that looks simular to yours, don't expect people will actually believe you when someone really does in the future. :shakehead


Maglite's complaint against Brinkman was totally valid. I had one of the Brinkman "MiniMags". It was certainly close enough in industrial design to make someone believe they were buying the real thing. Brinkman was free to make what ever they wanted but not if it violated IP owned by Maglite. This wasn't a case of looked similar, it was all but identical.


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## nitedrive (Mar 6, 2016)

PROTOOLNUT said:


> I am glad there are LEO on this forum, who are able to clarify stuff like that. I didn't think about the added weight on the duty belt. And unlike what Maglite would have you believe, sounds like your training recommended against using the light as a baton. And I totally understand what you mean about the physiological defence.
> 
> I have one of those baton style tazers, and just triggering the crackle sound from the arking beam, is enough to scare an assailant away from you. Hell its so loud it scares even me lol. And then when you think about these bright Cree based flashlights, if I put that sucker on strobe mode, that is enough to disorient someone enough to either run away or strike.
> 
> ...




When did Maglite ever suggest using their product as a baton?


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## StarHalo (Mar 6, 2016)

The 80's for the commonly-available consumer flashlight household I grew up in was all about the Rayovac Workhorse vs Duracell Durabeam..


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## Burgess (Mar 6, 2016)

Great Thread Here !

lovecpf



Here is the story of my very first Mini-Maglite,
which I received November 14, 1984.


Truly a Major Milestone in my Life !


http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?141266-My-very-first-Mini-Mag-light&highlight=


:thumbsup:
_


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## bykfixer (Mar 6, 2016)

^^ made my year Burgess.

Thank you for sharing that.


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## Burgess (Mar 7, 2016)

Thank you for the kind words, bykfixer !


:thumbsup:
_


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## Pilotodude (Apr 22, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> You guys happen to remember the model # of the SL 20 with slide switch?
> I want to add one to my _museum_ type collection with some other Streamlights I acquired such as the TL2 shockproof and a gen 1 Strion.



This one!!! Just my Gen-1 patent still pending SL-20. I believe it was introduced in 1982 or 1983. It was advertised to be brighter than a car headlight. For its time, it was a total game changer. 

This one's from 1985, but probably part of the original production run as it still says patent pending. Not the original bulb or battery, but still running strong. It will still out throw my 200 hcri HDS. Pretty impressive for being 31-33 years old. If I had to guess, that's older than probably half the people on this forum.


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## bykfixer (Apr 22, 2016)

Do you know the model #?


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## RWT1405 (Apr 22, 2016)

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Some oldies but goodies! Well used, yet well loved!


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## Pilotodude (Apr 22, 2016)

RWT1405 said:


> Some oldies but goodies! Well used, yet well loved!



Very cool. I still like the older ones better. The length and balance was perfect. When they moved to the internal switch they increased the length by almost 2 inches. Still a great life, just like the older one better.

Here is my 25 year old Malkoff'd Version next to his completely stock father.


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## Pilotodude (Apr 22, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Do you know the model #?



Streamlight greatly oversimplified their model numbers. Their model numbers are simply the number following the SL designation.

First, there was the SL-15, SL-20, SL-35... It really is that simple. That was it.

The upgrade to the SL-20 was the SL-20x (internal clicky switch) introduced around 1989. Then was the SL-20p (plastic), then SL-20L (LED). No telling what's out there now as I lost track several years ago.

Simply put, a true SL-20 will be the original version slide switch. All of the newer versions will have a letter designation following the number, or will be called something completely different.


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## bykfixer (Apr 22, 2016)

They had/have SL 20's in 25000 and 26000 model numbers. 
Numbers following the first 2 correspond to a kit #. 26000 is the SL 20x for example.
26060 would be say a light and a 120 volt charger. 26120 a light and both 12 volt _and_ 120 volt charger.
25000 is the SL 20xp.

But I've yet to find the model number of the one with the slide switch.


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## Pilotodude (Apr 22, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> But I've yet to find the model number of the one with the slide switch.



Have you contacted Streamlight directly? That would be my suggestion. Short of SL-20, there is no other model designation on my light or paperwork. 

Back in the early 80's, when you bought a SL-20, they all came in the same type of package; Box, light, battery, both an A/C and a car charger. I was shocked later on when they broke up the buying options. That started shortly after the SL-20x hit the market.

Keep us posted if you find anything out. Good luck!


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## bykfixer (Apr 23, 2016)

Will do.

Sounds like an SL-20 without a vowel or consenant (sp?) will be the slide switch model. Good enough. Thanks. 

I'm turning my sites on collecting lights of my youth this summer. Mid to late 70's stuff. Yet there'll certainly be some stuff from the 80's as well. 
Kel-Lite is next on my radar screen. But ones I see for sale are beat up.


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