# Coronavirus



## trailhunter

Howse everyone holding up?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## StarHalo

Had a cold last week, that was a fun scare. Other than that, I don't drink Coronas..


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## nbp

I switched to frosty Jagermeister with its 56 herbs and botanicals to keep healthy. So far so good.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

Recently, I've been enjoying me some LANDSHARK premium lager. It's from St. Louis, MO ........ Hope it's safe. :buddies:Fins up!


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## ven

Ok so far, anyone feeling a little rough or see anyone feeling same, should keep at least 3ft away from others is best option it seems. Washing hands regular and for example, not touching public handles then touching mouth etc. Face masks are useless.........well near enough useless. 
The press sure likes to scare people..........
Stay safe all, its sure contagious but the % of fatalities to those who have caught it is not 1 in 10 like SARS. But you can only go off what is reported?!?


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## De-Lux

I have heard Corona virus is best served with lyme disease!


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## nbp

Lol, okay that was a good one!

You got it Ven. Good hygiene is so important. I do get it - people are justifiably worried because relatively little is known about it and since it’s new the ideal situation is to cut the head off the snake right away. However the press it’s getting does kind of remind me of the Joker’s speech in The Dark Knight. It can be modified and applied in so many situations. 

“Nobody panics if everything goes according to plan, even if the plan is horrifying. If I tell the press that 650,000 Americans will die this year from heart disease, no one panics, because it’s all a part of the plan. But if I say one little old lady in Chicago has coronavirus, everyone loses their minds!!”


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## ven

Yes , exactly nbp , hopefully (if the SARS expert is right in thinking) after this months peak, it will get more under control. No doubt statistically you would have more chance of being run over(no proof of this just imo). Stay safe everyone .


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## bykfixer

I've always been suspicious of that corona beer……


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## Lumen83

I think it is good marketing. I haven't had a corona in years and now I have two six packs down the hatch since I found out that it was the only known cure for the virus. It is probably good for the lime industry as well.


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## badtziscool

De-Lux said:


> I have heard Corona virus is best served with lyme disease!



LOL!!!


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## Marcturus

Get your home-brewing equipment while it's still available: Pub worker linked to Super Spreader was told nonsense about 20 minutes of 2-meter-proximity contact required to risk infection.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...vealed-businessman-scout-leader-Brighton.html


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## bykfixer

This photo is going viral in China. 





Pun intended? You decide


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## Mr. LED

Misinformation rules in China, thanks to the communists. In lots of provinces, official announcements were made, suggesting that pets can be carriers for the virus, and in some places they were ordered to be put down and other places ordered to not leave the house.


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## PhotonWrangler

From what I've been reading, many of the people who get really sick from this virus come down with pneumonia. While there's no vaccine for coronavirus yet, there is a pneumonia vaccine. This seems like a good way to be proactive.


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## De-Lux

PhotonWrangler said:


> From what I've been reading, many of the people who get really sick from this virus come down with pneumonia. While there's no vaccine for coronavirus yet, there is a pneumonia vaccine. This seems like a good way to be proactive.


 The same can be said for influenza. Technically the flu doesn't kill, it's the pneumonia that can sometime follow the flu that can kill you. I have heard that the Wuhan virus has multiple sequences of the HIV viruses genome within its RNA sequence which is said to cause an autoimmune response. Basically the body starts attacking itself causing an inflammatory response that targets the respiratory system. It is rumored that HIV meds that suppress the immune system are being uses with success to treat this virus. Personally, I am focusing keeping my immune system strong through diet and supplementation so if I do get it hopefully won't kill me. It is also interesting that up until the time of me posting this that there has been no deaths outside of Asia. I am sure this will change over time but still odd that the mortality rate is much higher within Asia specifically China. Possibly due to poor medical treatment? Some are saying that the virus has a higher mortality rate amongst certain ethnic groups. Strange stuff.


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## LGT

Anybody taking this virus more seriously yet? It’s in the U.S.


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## nbp

In what way? I wash my hands a ton and try not to touch my face with unclean hands or get too close to people who are coughing or sneezing but this is pretty much SOP for me to prevent colds and flu anyways. Not sure what average citizens are supposed to do to aside from practicing excellent hygiene and self quarantine. Up to 45 million Americans get the flu and up to 60k die from it annually and people don’t even wash their hands when they leave public restrooms. So at 60 or so confirmed cases domestically I think we’re a long way off from people getting worried about it and taking cleanliness seriously.


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## Poppy

PhotonWrangler said:


> From what I've been reading, many of the people who get really sick from this virus come down with pneumonia. While there's no vaccine for coronavirus yet, there is a pneumonia vaccine. This seems like a good way to be proactive.


The vaccine is only good for pneumonia caused by a bacteria, not a virus.


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## SCEMan

Looks like my 13 day Med cruise (Italy-Croatia-Greece-Monaco-France-Spain) in April probably will be cancelled.


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## PhotonWrangler

Poppy said:


> The vaccine is only good for pneumonia caused by a bacteria, not a virus.



Good catch, Poppy. Thanks for the clarification!


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## nbp

SCEMan said:


> Looks like my 13 day Med cruise (Italy-Croatia-Greece-Monaco-France-Spain) in April probably will be cancelled.



Have you heard anything from the cruise company? Our family is going on a Caribbean cruise out of Puerto Rico end of April also for a friend’s anniversary - I sure hope it all goes as planned.


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## bykfixer




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## trailhunter

It's getting pretty real now... waiting for the crisis management team at my company to announce something.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## StarHalo

LGT said:


> Anybody taking this virus more seriously yet? It’s in the U.S.



Gonna be serious for the stock exchange before it gets serious for people's health.

We sure are selling a lot of face masks, even after the surgeon general told everyone to stop doing that..



nbp said:


> Up to 45 million Americans get the flu and up to 60k die from it annually



Common flu mortality rate is 0.1%, COVID-19 is 2%.


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## nbp

StarHalo said:


> Common flu mortality rate is 0.1%, COVID-19 is 2%.



Yes but that’s a Pretty small sample size. Billions of people have had the flu; 85,000 have had coronavirus so there is much to learn yet. It’s possible people with mild symptoms who recovered did not report it and were not tested which would also lower that percentage.


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## LeanBurn

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#repro

I found the above link of close to real time numbers to be informative. 6% mortality rate as of this post.

Keep your head about you, keep good hygiene practices and avoid places that are petri dishes.


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## nbp

Thanks for that link, fascinating! The covid-19 info wasn’t even the most interesting public health stats on that page to me. 

>10% of the world population is undernourished 
~1/3 of the world population is overweight or obese
>10% of the world population doesn’t have safe drinking water 
~1% of the world population dies every year from smoking

Wowza...


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## scout24

My biggest fear is public panic and emptying store shelves as when severe weather is forecast. Combined with slowing restock from overseas, I think there will be shortages in the near future. Our own fault, but we rely so heavily on items from the far east, and practice just in time stocking. Fingers crossed that there is some containment, and we're back to normal fairly soon.


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## wweiss

Wash hands often and don’t touch your eyes, mouth or nose.


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## bykfixer

Mrs Fixer and I were in a grocery store yesterday and at checkout noticed really long lines. No snow forecast, not super bowl Sunday…… wonder what's up. I noticed there was an elderly lady waiting for her turn but there was a large enough gap beyween her cart and others that folks just parked theirs in front of hers. She only had a few items, but was not moving forward. I parked my cart in front of hers too. Afterall she was just standing there about 10 feet from the next cart. So a lady asked if she was in line. She replied she was. That lady only had a few items as well so I urged both to move in front of me. 

The older lady said she was trying to avoid contracting that "beer virus". I said "they'll have a vacine soon hopefully. The other lady says "speaking of vacines did you know child vacinations have 25% more mercury than allowed by law?" Mrs Fixer looked at me mystified. The older lady said "I never get a flu vacine because every time I did before I got really sick." The other lady says "that's because vacines contain more mercury than allowed by law, it's true, doctor such n such said it on facebook so you know its true". The older lady looked at me mystified. I replied to the older lady "I got flu shot in 1995 and got really sick that year". On cue the other lady says "thats because of all of the mercury in vacines." "Of course you got sick, vacines have 25% more mercury than allowed by law." She went on and on about child vacines and how she'll never let her children get them. The older lady says "my kids got vacines and they're fine." I said "mine too". Mrs Fixer said "I doubt vacines had anything to do with how mine turned out". On cue "well doctor such n such said on facebook that vacines are harmful". I just chuckled and said "imagine how awesome our kids would have turned out if they had not drank from water hoses, swam in creeks, ran around barefoot in summer or received vacinations".……then I bid a farewell to the older lady and moved away from Mercury mom to a line that was moving faster. 

Why was the store so crowded? I still don't know.


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## KITROBASKIN

The question of wearing masks has different opinions. Here from Centers for Disease Control And Prevention (when already sick, wear a mask or stay away from others including pets):

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/steps-when-sick.html

And from New Atlas, supposedly a treatment to masks for increased effectiveness:

https://newatlas.com/salt-treated-surgical-masks-viruses/47275/

Seems like historically, humanity (not some individuals) became stronger after exposure to pathogens. Most people infected apparently do not get especially sick. Has anyone mentioned eating healthy foods, remaining positive about life (including kindness toward others), gratitude, and a good looking useful flashlight?


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## wweiss

bykfixer said:


> Mrs Fixer and I were in a grocery store yesterday and at checkout noticed really long lines. No snow forecast, not super bowl Sunday…… wonder what's up. I noticed there was an elderly lady waiting for her turn but there was a large enough gap beyween her cart and others that folks just parked theirs in front of hers. She only had a few items, but was not moving forward. I parked my cart in front of hers too. Afterall she was just standing there about 10 feet from the next cart. So a lady asked if she was in line. She replied she was. That lady only had a few items as well so I urged both to move in front of me.
> 
> The older lady said she was trying to avoid contracting that "beer virus". I said "they'll have a vacine soon hopefully. The other lady says "speaking of vacines did you know child vacinations have 25% more mercury than allowed by law?" Mrs Fixer looked at me mystified. The older lady said "I never get a flu vacine because every time I did before I got really sick." The other lady says "that's because vacines contain more mercury than allowed by law, it's true, doctor such n such said it on facebook so you know its true". The older lady looked at me mystified. I replied to the older lady "I got flu shot in 1995 and got really sick that year". On cue the other lady says "thats because of all of the mercury in vacines." "Of course you got sick, vacines have 25% more mercury than allowed by law." She went on and on about child vacines and how she'll never let her children get them. The older lady says "my kids got vacines and they're fine." I said "mine too". Mrs Fixer said "I doubt vacines had anything to do with how mine turned out". On cue "well doctor such n such said on facebook that vacines are harmful". I just chuckled and said "imagine how awesome our kids would have turned out if they had not drank from water hoses, swam in creeks, ran around barefoot in summer or received vacinations".……then I bid a farewell to the older lady and moved away from Mercury mom to a line that was moving faster.
> 
> Why was the store so crowded? I still don't know.




I always move far away from "Mercury Moms".


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## wweiss

Wash hands often and don’t touch your eyes, mouth or nose.


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## bykfixer

Dude on my local radio pointed out that corona virus is listed on a can of Lysol as things it kills

Realizing this new one is a new strain, it just solidified that common sense and a little luck can go a long ways towards avoiding illness.

Another fellow on the radio was saying there are a bunch of companies reopening in China as it seems the spread is subsiding. That was a stock market guy telling one of the reasons the market stopped falling today. That and the American government's bank is going to start lowering interest and printing money if need be. 

Still, good advice is good advice regardless of the latest virus to end all life on earth.


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## RedLED

Since we spend April in the desert I would love it if the Coachella Fest. Would be cancelled. The spin off parties are a nightmare! No one here likes that dreadful event.


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## nosuchagency

bring it...


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## SCEMan

nbp said:


> Have you heard anything from the cruise company? Our family is going on a Caribbean cruise out of Puerto Rico end of April also for a friend’s anniversary - I sure hope it all goes as planned.



Viking has really "stepped up to the plate" on this. Up to 3 days prior to embarkation we can cancel and get a 100% voucher for any destination travel within 24 mos. Now we'll just wait and see how the impact develops...

Update: Looks like we're rescheduling for next year. By then I'm sure the outlook will be much better (fingers-crossed) for everyone's sake.


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## RetroTechie

Earlier I was kinda worried about my parents (both around 80y) if this virus turns into a pandemic. Not there yet... quite... but slowly seeming to go there. But for my parents, that worry has passed. Why?

My mother lives in a nursing home these days. She's got several health problems (slowly progressing dementia, left hand & leg don't co-operate too well, low bone density, ...), and many of her days are rather boring. In her own words: "if my time comes today, I wouldn't mind". Not that she has a strong death wish, but you could say she's 'done' with her life. She's doing okay for the moment and her dementia is progressing only veeerrry slowly, but her long-term outlook isn't anyone's idea of a fun experience. Likewise a simple fall could lead to death, and she's had a few falls too many already.

So I though about what if this virus breaks out everywhere, and she gets hit with it? (good chance it would). Then: a) she'd be sick for maybe a week or two, and not worry about it after that. Or b) she'd be sick for a week or two, and not have to worry about _anything_ anymore after that.  I reckon either outcome would be acceptable for her. And I would have peace with that. There's worse ways to go than a week with a bad case of the flu...

Yeah I know it sounds crude to say it like that but that's how things are. And my dad? In much better health. I suspect he'd just shake it off like most people despite his age. My sister & myself aren't in the risk groups and doing fine health wise.

So my worries _there_ have stopped, and returned to general worrying about this virus' effect on the world's population, should we fail to contain this outbreak. In that respect it could be devastating. One only has to read up on the numbers for common flu, understand that this virus is a lot more deadly, and then read some about what things like the Spanish flu or the plague did back in the day. Or what some diseases like malaria or tuberculosis _continue_ to do today. But well... poop happens & life goes on.



bykfixer said:


> Mrs Fixer and I were in a grocery store yesterday and at checkout noticed really long lines. No snow forecast, not super bowl Sunday…… wonder what's up.


Seen on the news that many people are raiding supermarket shelves in some European countries (UK, France, Germany, Italy, maybe more). Mostly the hand sanitizers & related of course. But regular food items too. Imho: when the general public does this, a clear sign things are getting interesting.



scout24 said:


> My biggest fear is public panic and emptying store shelves as when severe weather is forecast. Combined with slowing restock from overseas, I think there will be shortages in the near future. Our own fault, but we rely so heavily on items from the far east, and practice just in time stocking. Fingers crossed that there is some containment, and we're back to normal fairly soon.


It's mostly cheap gadgets & clothing that comes from the Far East... we can do without for a while. Everyday food items come from within the EU for me, from the Netherlands itself (where I live), or it's dry goods like beans, lentils & rice of which I normally have _at least_ a month's worth @ home. Drinking water: ditto. Fuel for cooking: same. Batteries for powering flashlights: aaaggges. :laughing: So I felt kind of like "stupid unprepared folks out there raiding supermarket shelves on a virus scare". I'm guessing there's quite a few people on here who would have no problem duking it out for a couple of weeks (or longer) should things turn bad.
So: relax, nothing is under control.


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## RedLED

Retro, 

Please check credible news sources, the elderly, and young children are the most vulnerable, not only to come down with the virus but also have it terminal. Also, it was reported that officials are worried about nursing, and retirement homes.

Right now, there is quite a bit of the sky is falling...is sells soap. 

Forget the American TV networks, and all cable news. Check the Assoicated Press. 

Dont worry too much.

Best,

RedLED


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## PhotonWrangler

RedLED said:


> Retro,
> 
> Please check credible news sources, the elderly, and young children are the most vulnerable, not only to come down with the virus but also have it terminal. Also, it was reported that officials are worried about nursing, and retirement homes.
> 
> Right now, there is quite a bit of the sky is falling...is sells soap.
> 
> Forget the American TV networks, and all cable news. Check the Assoicated Press.
> 
> Dont worry too much.
> 
> Best,
> 
> RedLED



I agree with RedLED. Trust info from the WHO rather than politicians. Some cable news info is credible but all of it is overhyped to sell eyeballs to advertisers.

Speaking of the WHO, a spokesman said that coronaviruses can live up to 5-9 days on currency, based on their past experiences with SARS and MERS, so consider using contactless payment methods until this is over. And based on this, incoming currency from Asis is being quarrantined.


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## nbp

The average user has about 80 smart phone usage sessions per day. Your phone is probably almost as dirty as that currency and you literally put it on your face. You. Can’t. Escape. Germs.


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## harro

wweiss said:


> Wash hands often and don’t touch your eyes, mouth or nose.



That's the best advice for a fact. Down here, the media have gone absolutely nuttso over it. General spending has virtually stopped and people are already being temporarily laid off work. Don't ask why, but toilet paper ( aka : poo tickets ) has been bought up by the trolley load. You cannot get it anywhere, for a fact. The herd mentality rearing its ugly head. We have had TWO deaths from it, one of which was a 94yo nursing home resident ( RIP to both of them ). Common flu virus kills or contributes to the death of about 1,600 people here p.a. I believe the annual global flu death total varies between 210,000 and 645,000 people. 

On a slightly lighter note, a large food processing factory in my home town, makes among other things, baked beans. In supermarkets and the factory ' door sales ' they have totally sold out of the bloody stuff ( shades of prepping for COVID19 ). I cant help but think how the shortage of baked beans, and toilet paper, will sit together!? Not well methinks. Hand sanitizer products are only available under the counter. Again, comes back to what wweiss has said, WASH HANDS WELL UNDER HOT WATER WITH SOAP, as well as other preventative measures.

Aus EBAY has seen single rolls of toilet paper for as much as AUD$1,000. Boxes of facial tissues and kitchen paper towels have gone the same way also. Hmmm, time to break out the glossy magazines. The media driven hysteria here, has to be seen to be believed and they need to be held accountable for their reporting. Unfortunately that will never happen, as they are a law unto themselves, and I assume a lot of other countries have media that's very similar.


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## bykfixer

Guy on the local radio news: Another fatality announced today bringing a total to 9.
A lady on national news: 9 new deaths reported today.


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## harro

bykfixer said:


> Guy on the local radio news: Another fatality announced today bringing a total to 9.
> A lady on national news: 9 new deaths reported today.



Exactly!!


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## RedLED

I agree with harro, two things not to do is get on a cruise ship, just in case, and not attend huge events with people from around the world attending. Other than that just conduct your normal day to day business routines, and you will be fine.

Don't worry about it. 

Best, 

RL


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## SilverFox

Interesting news from China at "ground zero..."

http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n17.shtml 

Tom


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## sledhead

KITROBASKIN said:


> The question of wearing masks has different opinions. Here from Centers for Disease Control And Prevention (when already sick, wear a mask or stay away from others including pets):
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/steps-when-sick.html
> 
> And from New Atlas, supposedly a treatment to masks for increased effectiveness:
> 
> https://newatlas.com/salt-treated-surgical-masks-viruses/47275/
> 
> Seems like historically, humanity (not some individuals) became stronger after exposure to pathogens. Most people infected apparently do not get especially sick. Has anyone mentioned eating healthy foods, remaining positive about life (including kindness toward others), gratitude, and a good looking useful flashlight?



Great Post.....love the last paragraph.


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## bykfixer

SilverFox said:


> Interesting news from China at "ground zero..."
> 
> http://www.orthomolecular.org/resources/omns/v16n17.shtml
> 
> Tom



Tom, at the early signs of a cold or flu we mix a powder called Emergen C in an 8oz glass of water. If it does not halt the bug in its tracks, it reduces the symptoms and recovery time greatly. It is inexpensive and tastes yummy in water. I have not been bothered by a cold or flu ever since a coworker told me to try it about 10 years ago. 

When the flu began being passed around my family this year I started feeling lousy one day. I took EmergeC in the morning and before bed. Next day symptoms were gone. But like I said, if you don't catch it early enough that stuff definitely helps your body help itself so recovery time is lessoned a lot.


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## glockboy

wweiss said:


> Wash hands often and don’t touch your eyes, mouth or nose.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57cwUMbeBHA&feature=youtu.be


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## PhotonWrangler

glockboy said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57cwUMbeBHA&feature=youtu.be




Oh, that poor woman is never gonna live that down. :laughing:


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## SilverFox

Hello Bykfixer,

I am aware of Emergen C and have used it for years. 

Thanks.

Tom


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## scout24

My local grocery had buy one get one free on 1000mg vitamin C, bottles of 300 tablets. I stocked up today.


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## harro

scout24 said:


> My local grocery had buy one get one free on 1000mg vitamin C, bottles of 300 tablets. I stocked up today.



No doubt it has benefits, but its a no-no for those who suffer gout, being pretty much ascorbic acid. I used to love the orange flavoured Vitamin C tabs, but I have to be very careful how and where I get my Vitamin C from these days. I will get a bad flare up with 100mg of Vit C. For those without gout, go for it.


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## harro

bykfixer said:


> This photo is going viral in China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pun intended? You decide



Being a cat lover, that cracked me up. Mrs harro had a laughing fit.


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## SilverFox

Hello Harro,

Have you considered trying Sodium Ascorbate powder? It is a buffered form of vitamin C and most people can tolerate that form. The downside is that it is more expensive.

Tom


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## harro

SilverFox said:


> Hello Harro,
> 
> Have you considered trying Sodium Ascorbate powder? It is a buffered form of vitamin C and most people can tolerate that form. The downside is that it is more expensive.
> 
> Tom



No I hadn’t Tom, but it sounds like it’s worth a try. Anything to reduce that fiery stinging pain, and help guard against winter blues and ‘ the ‘ virus is worth a try.
Cheers,
Mike.


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## id30209

Seeing this thread popping up in Tapatalk made me write something. 
I just received warning that 5 guys from airport fire brigade got Corona. Scarry part is that they are 30ft from my hangar[emoji51][emoji51]

Curious how situation will develop.


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## RedLED

How did they get that cat to keep that mask on? Perhaps the cats in China obey?


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## harro

RedLED said:


> How did they get that cat to keep that mask on? Perhaps the cats in China obey?



To finish it RedLED, they should have drawn a few whisker's with a black sharpie. If someone here is good on the computer ( Mr fixer springs to mind ), maybe they could add some??


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## RedLED

Harro, 

It would Seem that cats need their whiskers to gauge things like distance and openings to things before they get there at full speed. That could be a photoshopped photo. However, I don't do photoshop but my wife is one of the earliest users, a real pioneer, and one of the best in the world at it, I'll forward her a copy of the kitty photo, and see what she thinks. 

Best, 

Red Cameras lenses lighting LED


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## RedLED

The BNP Tennis Tourn. In Indian Wells, CA - HAS BEEN CANCELED! This is a major event here in the desert!


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## jrgold

My cats don’t seem to be very concerned, they hardly took a break from their busy day of napping


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## bykfixer

RedLED said:


> Harro,
> 
> It would Seem that cats need their whiskers to gauge things like distance and openings to things before they get there at full speed. That could be a photoshopped photo. However, I don't do photoshop but my wife is one of the earliest users, a real pioneer, and one of the best in the world at it, I'll forward her a copy of the kitty photo, and see what she thinks.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Red Cameras lenses lighting LED



Guys, 
RedLED is really Donald Trump. Donald Trump is a flashoholic. Woohoo!!

But seriously folks, that photo was sent by a friend of mine in China back when corona first hit and locals did not know what it was. All they knew was literally everybody around them was getting sick. Some of the village idiot folks said cats could spread it. 
Photoshop'd? I dunno, it was a post he showed at fakebook to make fun of how crazy everybody was acting back then.


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## KITROBASKIN

glockboy said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57cwUMbeBHA&feature=youtu.be



14 seconds of humanity, thanks for sharing!

Some studies show vitamin C not really being helpful for common cold; that high doses are expelled in urine. Emergen-C (?) has worked for me the same way as it has for Bykfixer. Perhaps the added minerals in a readily assimilated form are helpful. It is not cheap but less expensive than conventional options. Some believe in Zicam. The key is to take Emergen-C as early as you sense something coming on, seems like.


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## RedLED

Fixer,

You were to to keep that a secret!


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## StarHalo

Slate asks a prepper store owner about current Coronavirus business; masks and more masks..

CNN investigates the phenomenon of mass quantity toilet paper buying; I was hoping it wasn't insecure Pavlovian response to what everyone else is doing, spoiler alert: at least the savings are incredible..

Had lunch at Benihana today, it's in the middle of a corporate district so it's bustling with professionals at the lunch hour - it was just us and roughly ten other non-business people at two tables. Guess the stocks-and-bonds set didn't feel like spending on lunch..


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## RedLED

For earthquake preparations you need water and TP because the water may be shot off for days. This virus will not cause the water to be shut off so you don't need bottled water or TP. You need food, medications and Liquor! People are stocking up on the wrong items for the virus.

It's funny to me that in a state that could unleash a catotrophic earthquake at any second, that people do not stock up on the things they really need. If you have running water, you do not need TP! Just get in the shower! Now, you should have TP and water, however, the people stocking up on this should have it for an earthquake, and don't. Cleaning out the TP aisle shows how out of touch people really are.

Something allmost all homes have in Europe is a Bidet. Even in expensive custom homes and five star hotels here in America, we don't have them, plus Japan had the amazing toilets with water to replace TP. Why not here?

People are really stupid. That's why I say do not listen to network TV news or cable news. And I say that as a 28 year national and world level photojournalist. 

Don't worry, it will be OK.

RL


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## RedLED

YouTube has some funny videos of the bottled water and TP fools at Costco that are very funny!


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## ven

The people with CV19 are the ones who need to be wearing masks(of course many wont know for days........week/s) not the ones without. Very limited protection, changing masks every 30 mins , as once moist they are useless. The danger is the false sense of protection, potential risks people may take thinking safe.
They have even started wearing them at work in the security lodge, only for me to see one remove then touch their mouth. So ........


Stay safe and wash hands regular.


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## bykfixer

FOMO. Fear of missing out. Mrs Soccer Mom walks down the toilet paper ailes at a Target unsuspecting her settled but hectic life as a single mom is about to change. She casually pushes her cart loaded with all brand named items in case one of her neighbors from Respectable St pops in for a jug of Lancers table wine. Suddenly she notices there is a large gap in between the two ply and the kind with butterflies on it. Little Graham mentions the brand with puppy dogs on the package is missing. Mrs Soccer mom thinks to herself that at home they are down to less than 50 rolls so perhaps she should go ahead and buy a 12 pack. The kind with bunny rabbit prints. 

Suddenly from behind, a crazed lunatic wearing a dust mask and hollering "we're doomed, CNN says so" and starts frantically adding 24 packs of toilet paper to a shopping cart. "uh oh" thinks the soccer mom. "I'd better hurry up and get some too". Well low and behold all of a sudden the toilet paper row is packed with people clamoring for toilet paper. The postman, the clergyman, two policeman and a fireman. People with crazy tatoos and piercings, people wearing pajamas, fat people, skinny people, that neighbor from Respectable St, even Mr Magoo are in there clamoring for toilet paper. But so far so good. Things are hectic but orderly as people are chatting about the weather, the Grammys or the price of tea in China. 

Everything was cool until little Graham announced that awful man in the red MAGA hat stole all of the bunny rabbit toilet paper. Suddenly Mrs Soccer Mom's eyes opened widely like coffee cup saucers. Suddenly she knew karate too. Watching those ultimate fighting matches with the neighbor from Respectable St's husband……we'll leave that part out…… anyway things turned ugly fast. An hour later Mrs Soccer Mom has a rap sheet, the mailman went postal, the cops shot the mailman, the clergyman is in ICU with a massive concusion after being bashed over the head with an XL sized box of alluminum foil while praying for peace, the fireman managed to get little Graham out unharmed, fat people are skinny now, skinny people left with stolen oreo cookies and ice cream, the lady from Respectable St is divorcing her husband after finding out about the affair with that Soccer Mom tramp, the store burned to the ground and Mr Magoo drives off in his model T with the last 6 pack of toilet paper in the whole city. 

Folks, it's governmental mind control. Works everytime.


----------



## nbp

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## orbital

+

*Seasonal flu kills 291,000 to 646,000 people worldwide each year (including related complications)
*


----------



## bykfixer

Folks thought Howard Hughes was nuts for being anal about touching a door knob on the way out of a restroom yet many public facilities have little tissue dispensers beside the door. Use them. 

If you wash your hand every 22 seconds but touch a door knob some jerk just touched with wet hands…… or left the corona virus on it. 

My company has actually implimented an elbow bump policy until the coast is clear. 
Oh, lol, I bought some toilet paper afternoon just in case.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

We get the government and fourth estate 'mind control' that we deserve... Allow me to submit that it is our contemporary culture that craves security and protection from ALL that might harm. True, more authoritarian entities are able to be more controlling, But from extravagant insurance policies to being forced to walk in socks before boarding a plane, what was once the standard salute when leaving for a journey, "Bon Voyage", has become "Have a safe trip". Our culture wants to live, even if it is a coward's life. What honor is in that?

To some, COVID-19 is another aspect of being. Those with compromised immune systems should take precautions and hope for an effective treatment and vaccine. What if we choose to marvel at this miracle of our Life, and live it with richness and beauty? Being all the more thankful BECAUSE of its transitory nature.


----------



## sween1911

Got sick a few weeks ago, a non-corona-related bug my kid brought home and coughed directly into my hypothalamus.

All better, but now fighting 1) a lingering cough, and also 2) paranoid stares from people when I cough.


----------



## recDNA

Is this pandemic what we've all been preparing for? I'd prefer the Zombie Apocalypse. At least I could see them coming.


----------



## recDNA

KITROBASKIN said:


> We get the government and fourth estate 'mind control' that we deserve... Allow me to submit that it is our contemporary culture that craves security and protection from ALL that might harm. True, more authoritarian entities are able to be more controlling, But from extravagant insurance policies to being forced to walk in socks before boarding a plane, what was once the standard salute when leaving for a journey, "Bon Voyage", has become "Have a safe trip". Our culture wants to live, even if it is a coward's life. What honor is in that?
> 
> To some, COVID-19 is another aspect of being. Those with compromised immune systems should take precautions and hope for an effective treatment and vaccine. What if we choose to marvel at this miracle of our Life, and live it with richness and beauty? Being all the more thankful BECAUSE of its transitory nature.


I have severe asthma. It is difficult for me to look at this threat with circumspect or wonder. It is here to kill me and testing that could have slowed its path was delayed. No electronics can help me to see it coming.


----------



## harro

Tazers deployed in Queensland ( state of Australia ) over toilet paper rage, with three women fighting over a couple of packs of bog roll. The tissue issue is really out of hand here. Imagine a flock of 20,000,000 sheep. For the other 5 Million inhabitants of this fair island, its just plain embarrasing. Common sense has taken a vacation. Even supermarkets have placed full page spreads in major tabloids stating the need for restrained purchases of bathroom tissue!!


----------



## RedLED

Harro,

Today it is tissue, wait until they want to stock up on food! People need to cut the cable, I did it years ago.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

:hahaha:..... tissue issue ... :thumbsup:


----------



## ven

I dont know if related or just coincidence. Our not quite local dog food place( large unit on industrial site) was raided. Pretty much took everything, from food to harnesses, leads...........most stuff. I have not heard of this, again could be just coincidence.

Just seen on the news a lady MP who has been tested positive, met with Boris J not long back! Looks like no one is safe(unless you have a bunker).

Stay safe all

What is it with panic buying, are people really that crazy(and yes it been happening here to). If everyone carried on as normal, there would be no issue with demand and supply. Trouble is reports of empty shelves start to panic more, then people are forced to go out and grab stuff.


----------



## TIP AND RING

ven said:


> I dont know if related or just coincidence. Our not quite local dog food place( large unit on industrial site) was raided. Pretty much took everything, from food to harnesses, leads...........most stuff. I have not heard of this, again could be just coincidence.
> 
> Just seen on the news a lady MP who has been tested positive, met with Boris J not long back! Looks like no one is safe(unless you have a bunker).
> 
> Stay safe all
> 
> What is it with panic buying, are people really that crazy(and yes it been happening here to). If everyone carried on as normal, there would be no issue with demand and supply. Trouble is reports of empty shelves start to panic more, then people are forced to go out and grab stuff.



By its nature, herd mentality is difficult to spot in the moment. After all, a snowflake doesn’t realize that it’s a part of the avalanche.


----------



## harro

RedLED said:


> Harro,
> 
> Today it is tissue, wait until they want to stock up on food! People need to cut the cable, I did it years ago.




Yep, no argument. SO TRUE!! The dependency is disgusting, then when something goes awry, the masses just cannot cope.

Sorry, I should have said, not everyone needs to be a full on prepper, but to just take some appropriate and basic steps for when that outage, or whatever, happens. It’s not difficult to do.


----------



## StarHalo

Actual preparation: How the hospital tests you for infection, what the signs mean, and how you can test for it at home, as explained by a doctor:


----------



## RetroTechie

harro said:


> Yep, no argument. SO TRUE!! The dependency is disgusting, then when something goes awry, the masses just cannot cope.


It's one reason for me to keep _at least_ several weeks worth of drinking water, food & fuel in house: peace of mind. Simply knowing that you won't _have_ to fight over a can of beans or pack of toilet paper when store shelves are raided, if you don't want to. No matter what. If disaster strikes, even a few weeks is a lot of breathing room to work out the next steps (and more than a large % of the population  ).

But to be honest, modern society has kind of done this to itself by a) picking the just-in-time option of keeping minimal stocks, and b) making that system work as well as it does. For example where I live:

Water outages basically don't happen, EVER. Other than very locally, a few hours max. I'm 49y old now & it's been that way as long as I can remember. 
Electricity grid: same. Statistically, grid outages are measured in minutes per year (>99,99% uptime). Outages are usually small # of households & a full day is already very long outage. I know around the world, things are different in many countries & areas within countries, but the NL is not among those. 
Supermarkets open 6 or 7 days a week, shelves always stocked except the odd item. 

So if that's true for one's entire life, can you really blame people for not realizing how fragile that system is, how quickly stocks are depleted when supply chains are interrupted and/or a buying frenzy breaks out? Imho: no.

I've always considered camping trips a good 'training ground'. And I mean in a tent, living out of a backpack style. Not driving around in a car with 2nd home attached. :laughing: It learns you how to be frugal with resources, do the math, understand the REAL value (and non-value!) of various tools, etc. 'Bugging in' then becomes like camping @ home with a stronger 'tent' and even more tools & supplies at one's disposal (or in other words: a walk in the park).

But I guess Darwin will eventually sort these things out. In other news: the WHO finally agrees to speak of a pandemic. Long overdue...


----------



## bykfixer

100 year old dude in a gas station today.
I saw this fellow wiping down his car with a nice soft brush and being a car guy I asked about his brush. That led to a discussion about life in these United States lately. He said he bought it for his 100th birthday (and homie did not look a day past 70), as his last hurrah he said. He said he survived WW2,Korea,Vietnam, legionaires disease, all kinds of super germs and "I'll be dammned if some bug named after a beer that tastes like horse **** is gonna scare me". So he took out his pride and joy for a quick jaunt but "all this dam pollen is constantly getting on my car so I gotta keep wiping it down". 

He says he is waiting for the corana "thingy" to spread closer to home "so the shopping malls aren't so dam crowded with old people in the mornings" and looks forward to less crowded conditions. 

I chuckled and said "man you're tough". He laughed and said "not anymore, I'm just dangerous these days". lol


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Why soap might be better than hand sanitizer for handling Coronavirus (if you have access to soap and water).


----------



## StarHalo

Tom Hanks and his wife have tested positive for Coronavirus; thankfully they are currently in Australia where testing is available, as opposed to the US. 

The NBA has suspended the season until further notice, so the only televised sporting event available in the US is college basketball games with no audiences.


----------



## bigburly912

StarHalo said:


> Tom Hanks and his wife have tested positive for Coronavirus; thankfully they are currently in Australia where testing is available, as opposed to the US.



You must be a CNN fan.


----------



## StarHalo

Bigburly912 said:


> You must be a CNN fan.



I thought this was hoax meant to make the president look bad?


----------



## nbp

Let’s keep to science and facts and how people are being affected rather than bringing politics into it. Thanks.


----------



## StarHalo

So if we're going the route of science and facts, we need to take a look at the history of pandemics and how they played out, then interpolate the data that we currently have onto that dynamic, and from that we can extrapolate where we are and where we're headed. We can see that the number of cases is rising very fast, so we're on the first part of an upward curve, but the question is how that curve peaks - will it be a high, sharp curve with an extremely high number at the peak [which means many people critically infected at once overwhelming the health care system] or a low, long curve that never reaches a high number [which means a lengthy ill season but never many critically ill at the same time]? Only a _proactive_ country can achieve the low curve, a _reactive_ country will necessarily experience the high curve. You then only have to decide which you would prefer:


----------



## RedLED

RetroTechie said:


> It's one reason for me to keep _at least_ several weeks worth of drinking water, food & fuel in house: peace of mind. Simply knowing that you won't _have_ to fight over a can of beans or pack of toilet paper when store shelves are raided, if you don't want to. No matter what. If disaster strikes, even a few weeks is a lot of breathing room to work out the next steps (and more than a large % of the population  ).
> 
> But to be honest, modern society has kind of done this to itself by a) picking the just-in-time option of keeping minimal stocks, and b) making that system work as well as it does. For example where I live:
> 
> Water outages basically don't happen, EVER. Other than very locally, a few hours max. I'm 49y old now & it's been that way as long as I can remember.
> Electricity grid: same. Statistically, grid outages are measured in minutes per year (>99,99% uptime). Outages are usually small # of households & a full day is already very long outage. I know around the world, things are different in many countries & areas within countries, but the NL is not among those.
> Supermarkets open 6 or 7 days a week, shelves always stocked except the odd item.
> 
> So if that's true for one's entire life, can you really blame people for not realizing how fragile that system is, how quickly stocks are depleted when supply chains are interrupted and/or a buying frenzy breaks out? Imho: no.
> 
> I've always considered camping trips a good 'training ground'. And I mean in a tent, living out of a backpack style. Not driving around in a car with 2nd home attached. :laughing: It learns you how to be frugal with resources, do the math, understand the REAL value (and non-value!) of various tools, etc. 'Bugging in' then becomes like camping @ home with a stronger 'tent' and even more tools & supplies at one's disposal (or in other words: a walk in the park).
> 
> But I guess Darwin will eventually sort these things out. In other news: the WHO finally agrees to speak of a pandemic. Long overdue...



Dude, 

If water outages Don't happen, why rush to buy water, and if your water is on, why rush back to by TP?

You really Don't make any sense.

Two main things you need are: firearms, and cash. Of course the milquetoast authority's never tell us that!


----------



## RedLED

As for Tom Hanks, don't worry about him I am certain he is banging out the Coronavirus script at this moment. This is called development, soon pre-production will begin! Then casting, principal photography, post production, promotion, premiere, and you can, well, go see it or stream it, I am not sure about that.

Then his Oscar!

But, Don't worry!!


----------



## nightshade

See everyone at the next rally. Thanks for your support.


----------



## Kid9P

Non virus related post here folks:

Before this whole virus thing came to be, I always kept a bottle of hand sanitizer in the car.
Always good to have in case you make a quick food drive thru pit stop.
Bottle is almost gone and none for sale anywhere, smh.

Anyone spare just 1 bottle? I’d gladly PayPal you for it plus shipping.
Just need one, Thanks.


----------



## Lumen83

RedLED said:


> Two main things you need are: firearms, and cash. Of course the milquetoast authority's never tell us that!



I often wonder if cash would be any good to barter with in the most direst of situations. I tend to think actual commodities would be much more valuable and the cash representation of value might go out the window. I think ammunition and food are good to keep around for bartering. Water if you are not in an area where water is readily available. Maybe batteries. Other stuff like that. Cash is king when goods are readily available. But I'm not sure if cash/gold or any other representation of value for a particular good is as valuable as having that particular good on hand in an emergency/disaster type situation.


----------



## RedLED

Don't worry cash will always be good. The other thing to have is gold bullion in bars or coins. I always have a gold bullion coin on me when I travel.


----------



## ledbetter

Plain old rubbing alcohol works well too, just don’t wipe it off, let it dry on its own.



Kid9P said:


> Non virus related post here folks:
> 
> Before this whole virus thing came to be, I always kept a bottle of hand sanitizer in the car.
> Always good to have in case you make a quick food drive thru pit stop.
> Bottle is almost gone and none for sale anywhere, smh.
> 
> Anyone spare just 1 bottle? I’d gladly PayPal you for it plus shipping.
> Just need one, Thanks.


----------



## Lumen83

RedLED said:


> Don't worry cash will always be good. The other thing to have is gold bullion in bars or coins. I always have a gold bullion coin on me when I travel.



I hope you are right. I will certainly not be trading any goods for cash or gold in a crisis. They are of no use to me when it comes to surviving in a dire situation.


----------



## bykfixer

Bring on the beer bug. I'm ready. 
Toilet paper is over rated.


----------



## light-modder

[emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## RedLED

Lumen83 said:


> I hope you are right. I will certainly not be trading any goods for cash or gold in a crisis. They are of no use to me when it comes to surviving in a dire situation.


This is not that kind of doomsday crisis.


----------



## SCEMan

Prior to retirement I was a Sr. Project Mgr. at SCE in Business Continuity/Disaster Recovery for 18 years. After the SARS outbreak in 2003 we developed a corporate pandemic response plan (as required by all state-governed utilities) that has been updated and exercised annually. Nothing I've seen so far with COVID-19 isn't already mitigated by the existing planning methodology, and I'm confident that any virus-related utility outages are very unlikely. 

Despite irresponsible media attempts to capitalize on this outbreak (e.g., "deadly virus") at the expense of public panic, this "storm" will run its course much like others in the past with the major impact being largely economic. Thankfully much will learned from this pandemic that can be used to mitigate/manage events when a truly virulent strain appears in the future.


----------



## Lumen83

RedLED said:


> This is not that kind of doomsday crisis.



I don't see the actual virus itself being that big of a deal at all. Its people's reaction that I'm concerned about. We've got people bringing box trucks to stores to load up on everything they can get their hands on around here, businesses are shutting down, people are terrified and acting like idiots. That disrupts the supply chain. And its really completely blown out of proportion, in my opinion. So, its not so much the actual thing that is a doomsday crisis for me. Its the panicked herd mentality that could wind up being a problem.


----------



## nbp

Kid9P said:


> Non virus related post here folks:
> 
> Before this whole virus thing came to be, I always kept a bottle of hand sanitizer in the car.
> Always good to have in case you make a quick food drive thru pit stop.
> Bottle is almost gone and none for sale anywhere, smh.
> 
> Anyone spare just 1 bottle? I’d gladly PayPal you for it plus shipping.
> Just need one, Thanks.



Put some soapy water in a tupperware container with a washcloth and a dry handtowel in the car. Free portable handwash station.


----------



## Dave D

Here in Spain we currently have 3126 recorded cases of Coronavirus and 86 deaths. 

We currently have the second highest number of cases in Europe, behind Italy.

It was odd to me that the USA should ban flights from Europe but not from the UK! 

The UK is only 20 miles from mainland Europe so anyone in Europe that wants to get to the USA can simply travel across to the UK and hop on a plane!

The UK authorities are not checking passengers arriving in the UK for Coronavirus, even from Italy!!!!

It appears that cases are doubling in number every 2 days in Spain, the main outbreak is in Madrid where several elderly care homes have been hit badly.

Keep washing those hands!


----------



## nbp

Basically every fun thing to do is closed, canceled or postponed for the next month+. I feel for all the people whose jobs depend on tourism. Practically all sports, concerts, shows, parades, festivals, you name it. Viking and Princess cruises are canceled for two months. Stock up on snickers and flashlights,,, we’re not going anywhere for a while.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Personally, the only reason I'd stock-up on grocery store items is to cut the amount of exposure I incur going to the store. It makes sense to only go once a month rather than the normal three to four times I normally go. However, I'm not planning on stocking-up the next time because I don't want to be part of the problem. 

Our governor just ordered all public and private schools to close for six weeks by Monday in three of Washington state's largest counties. How are working parents going to arrange day care?


----------



## RedLED

Dave D said:


> Here in Spain we currently have 3126 recorded cases of Coronavirus and 86 deaths.
> 
> We currently have the second highest number of cases in Europe, behind Italy.
> 
> It was odd to me that the USA should ban flights from Europe but not from the UK!
> 
> The UK is only 20 miles from mainland Europe so anyone in Europe that wants to get to the USA can simply travel across to the UK and hop on a plane!
> 
> The UK authorities are not checking passengers arriving in the UK for Coronavirus, even from Italy!!!!
> 
> It appears that cases are doubling in number every 2 days in Spain, the main outbreak is in Madrid where several elderly care homes have been hit badly.
> 
> Keep washing those hands!



That's right you could take the TGV to London into, I forget which station the tunnel trains go to Victoria, Euston, Kings Cross, no that's to the North, Paddington, Waterloo? 

Then fly out straight to the US!


----------



## dotCPF

We're almost certainly going to have a 2 week "quarantine", at least I have heard from now multiple different ways. My LEO brother has heard the same thing.

You can make hand sanitizer with isopropyl alcohol and aloe gel mixed together, 40/60 or 30/70 split works well.

Stay safe, and remember the two golden rules:

1. Don't panic.

2. Bring a Towel


----------



## jrgold

nbp said:


> Basically every fun thing to do is closed, canceled or postponed for the next month+. I feel for all the people whose jobs depend on tourism. Practically all sports, concerts, shows, parades, festivals, you name it. Viking and Princess cruises are canceled for two months. Stock up on snickers and flashlights,,, we’re not going anywhere for a while.



My sons college... shut down... elementary school... closed... soccer... nope... work... wash your hands and be here at 7am!


----------



## thermal guy

scout24 said:


> My biggest fear is public panic and emptying store shelves as when severe weather is forecast. Combined with slowing restock from overseas, I think there will be shortages in the near future. Our own fault, but we rely so heavily on items from the far east, and practice just in time stocking. Fingers crossed that there is some containment, and we're back to normal fairly soon.



This is exactly why we all should be prepared. Always. Stock up when you can have extra of everything “ I’m assuming we all have the flashlight part of that covered “ and we should all be able to hold up at your dwelling for 1-2 weeks without having to hit the store. If you do this s little at a time it’s easy.


----------



## RedLED

dotCPF said:


> We're almost certainly going to have a 2 week "quarantine", at least I have heard from now multiple different ways. My LEO brother has heard the same thing.
> 
> You can make hand sanitizer with isopropyl alcohol and aloe gel mixed together, 40/60 or 30/70 split works well.
> 
> Stay safe, and remember the two golden rules:
> 
> 1. Don't panic.
> 
> 2. Bring a Towel


If you are quarantined at home, you really don't need hand sanitizer, that's for when you go out and touch things in public.

At home just wash your hands like you should anyway.

I hope the media really pays the price for what they have done!!


----------



## jrgold

thermal guy said:


> This is exactly why we all should be prepared. Always. Stock up when you can have extra of everything “ I’m assuming we all have the flashlight part of that covered “ and we should all be able to hold up at your dwelling for 1-2 weeks without having to hit the store. If you do this s little at a time it’s easy.



Very true, if you really want to cover the flashlights as well, make a faraday cage with a couple lights, portable solar charger, and other essential electronics


----------



## dotCPF

Agreed Red, someone above asked about how to get some, and you can make it easily!

I'm all for an abundance of caution, but it's hardly time to pack. 


And "quarantine" is perhaps even too strong in quotes, it will be like a big giant snow day, just food, utilities, banks, and first responders/ hospital personnel will have work.


----------



## ven

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Personally, the only reason I'd stock-up on grocery store items is to cut the amount of exposure I incur going to the store. It makes sense to only go once a month rather than the normal three to four times I normally go. However, I'm not planning on stocking-up the next time because I don't want to be part of the problem.
> 
> Our governor just ordered all public and private schools to close for six weeks by Monday in three of Washington state's largest counties. How are working parents going to arrange day care?



This is an excellent point, Ireland have shut up schools etc. UK not yet, some argue too little too late. Trouble as you say, shut schools, the NHS becomes more strained. Kids have parents, parents work for NHS............

There is no easy get around, many countries being reactive and not pro active. Its too late now, be it USA or UK. Too many have it(knowing or not). Many wont even know they have it.

I agree totally about being part(or not) of the problem, its forcing people to stock pile. If everyone could just carry on as normal, shelves would not be emptied. You go out, you see shelves empty, you think " if i dont grab some, i wont be able to if get locked down" And so the cycle carries on.

Common sense is not common!


----------



## Dave D

Hot off the press in Spain!

Air and maritime connections between Morocco and Spain have been suspended by the Moroccan authorities due to the coronavirus.

Also several areas are now being locked down by the authorities in the Barcelona region.


----------



## harro

I’d also heard alcohol is very effective, single malt, imbibed, allow time to work, and repeat if necessary........

Another example of hysteria here, the F1 GP cancelled, and very nearly as quickly, F1 drivers spotted at Tullamarine ( Melbourne/Vic/Aus ) airport clamouring for the pointy end of the nearest 787 out.

At least poor old GW, GFC, SARS, EBOLA, and what ever else you can think of, are getting a rest for the time being.


----------



## orbital

+

*Common human coronaviruses*



229E (alpha coronavirus) 
NL63 (alpha coronavirus) 
OC43 (beta coronavirus) 
HKU1 (beta coronavirus) 
 *Other human coronaviruses*



MERS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS) 
SARS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS) 
SARS-CoV2 (the novel coronavirus that causes coronavirus disease 2019, or COVID-19) 
-- 
 People around the world commonly get infected with human coronaviruses 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1.
Sometimes coronaviruses that infect animals can evolve and make people sick and become a new human coronavirus. Three recent examples of this are 2019-nCoV, SARS-CoV, and MERS-CoV.

=====================================

With the many coronavirus' in the wild, what is the possibility that the exact Covid-19 is detected when 'there is another case in.....'
One has to ask if there are false positives on number of the exact covid effecting.

CDC is not doing every single test from Anywhere USA


----------



## bykfixer

harro said:


> I’d also heard alcohol is very effective, single malt, imbibed, allow time to work, and repeat if necessary........
> 
> Another example of hysteria here, the F1 GP cancelled, and very nearly as quickly, F1 drivers spotted at Tullamarine ( Melbourne/Vic/Aus ) airport clamouring for the pointy end of the nearest 787 out.
> 
> At least poor old GW, GFC, SARS, EBOLA, and what ever else you can think of, are getting a rest for the time being.



When I drank a lot of booze I never got sick. The time shortly after I went sober things fell apart for a while. Coincidence? 


So I'm sitting in a skin doctors office in a populated city and am the youngest person in there by at least 20 years. My initial thought was to wonder how many of the folks in the waiting room won't be here next year because of the beer bug. Yet none are wearing masks, none have Purell bottles poking out of their shirts pockets and none are talking about. My thoughts are "if they aint scared, neither will I be".
It's one of those facilities with one doctor and 8 people scheduled for the same appointment time in 15 minute increments so you end up hanging out in a waiting room for a while. 11:30 appt means if you are lucky you see the doctor in a hour. Ugh. I feel kind of bad for these elderly folks who may end up becoming inflicted because somebody did not heed warnings to avoid certain countries or use safe (well established) flu season practices.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

bykfixer said:


> ...
> Yet none are wearing masks, none have Purell bottles poking out of their shirts pockets and none are talking about. My thoughts are "if they aint scared, neither will I be".
> ...



How many passengers were wearing lifejackets on the Titanic?


----------



## ven

Well at my place of work, cabins lifted off trucks and placed outside entry . From monday(too little too late imho) we will be tested with temp, if a little high, wait 15 mins and test again. This has been suggested simply because coming into work, heaters on or bob hat.......temp could be up anyway.

Scientists are saying they think 60% of the population need to catch this, to help build up imune(not going to happen over night). Its not going away, not this year or next. In fact their estimate(granted nothing is fact) is over the next decade!!!!. Peaks and troughs, they also predict come winter, 100x more will get infected.

Stay safe, take serious, take no risks.


----------



## 59ride

my laptop caught a virus, not sure if CV tho


----------



## PhotonWrangler

orbital said:


> +
> 
> With the many coronavirus' in the wild, what is the possibility that the exact Covid-19 is detected when 'there is another case in.....'
> One has to ask if there are false positives on number of the exact covid effecting.
> 
> CDC is not doing every single test from Anywhere USA



This is a good point. Does anyone here know what the current generation of Covid-19 tests looks at? Or is it a general test for any coronavirus?


----------



## bigburly912

You can run the general test. Takes longer for covid-19 to show


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Bigburly912 said:


> You can run the general test. Takes longer for covid-19 to show



Thanks Bigburly.

Some Walmarts, Walgreens and CVS parking lots will be opened up for drive-thru Coronavirus testing.


----------



## id30209

Guys i don’t know how you are doing but i’m keeping my eye on this guy[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## sledhead

id30209 said:


> Guys i don’t know how you are doing but i’m keeping my eye on this guy[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]



:thumbsup: Truth!


----------



## harro

How our media spread calm and urge people to be restrained...…







 TO THE MEDIA


----------



## Rachael_B

Guys, what do you think me and my bf got flight tickets to Spain in June (vacation). Should we return them for a refund or by then everything's gonna be fine? I've heard in China they're going back to normal life.
Just saw this article... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/europe/spain-coronavirus-emergency.html


----------



## ven

Its a vicious cycle, people panic buy instead of carrying on as normal(would not run out then). Then this forces the sensible people to have to stock up, as things run out.

Cant win

keep calm and carry on!

Its not even started yet, this could be with us for years.

We all have a right to now, the media fair play. But how its portrayed and brought to the people is very important. This they fail on.

Ironically, the a55 wipes wont have a55 wipes due to their papers!!!!


----------



## Dave D

Rachael_B said:


> Guys, what do you think me and my bf got flight tickets to Spain in June (vacation). Should we return them for a refund or by then everything's gonna be fine? I've heard in China they're going back to normal life.
> Just saw this article... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/europe/spain-coronavirus-emergency.html



As of 9.00am tomorrow (Monday 16 March) the whole of Spain will be in Lockdown for a minimum of 15 days. 

With a population of just over 46 million the size of Spain is similar to the size of Texas. If people comply and keep themselves away from others then this action could do a lot to prevent many more being infected. We currently have over 6000 recorded cases and the numbers are doubling every other day!

Unfortunately my faith in the general public is not great so this could just create another wave after the lockdown is lifted.

So getting back to your question, we don't know what the situation will be in June, Spain could be recovering but it could be rampant in the USA by then and flights from the USA banned to the rest of the world.

Time will tell!


----------



## bykfixer

Here are the folks that are fanning the flames just this past Friday afternoon at a white house press conference. 
Schools closed, sports seasoned cancelled, toilet paper all gone, people fighting over hand soap and the world on the edge of panic. 

Is the media over hyping this on purpose? As you can see _they're _​not looking very nervous.


----------



## bykfixer

Went for the weekly grocery run and good gosh man. Besides the entire paper products row being wiped out, the surprise to me was all of the perishable stuff being gone. It was reiminiscent of Isabell when there was lots of canned products but no perishables. Only after Isabell there was no electricity for a week or two depending on where you lived. Armed guards were stationed at ice trucks during that one. Can you freeze eggs? Cause those were gone too. 

Our local Sams Club had just gotten in a truck load of Charmin that will may be gone before I finish typing this. 
FOMO is in high gear in my town.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

corona virus... covid19... * SARS-CoV-2 - SARS 2

*Peter Attia, M.D. *

*PODCAST #97 – Peter Hotez, M.D., Ph.D.: COVID-19: transmissibility, vaccines, risk reduction, and treatment 3-14-20

*We discuss:*



_The disease and the virus: transmissibility and lethality [04:30];_
_Disease transmission: US playing catch-up [12:00];_
_Convalescent plasma coronavirus therapy [16:00];_
_Remdesivir drug treatment and vaccination challenges [19:45];_
_Disease mechanism and reported pathology [27:45];_
_Most concerning geographic regions in the US [39:00];_
_Risk reduction [46:30]; and_
_More._

PODCAST #98 – Peter Attia, M.D. and Paul Grewal, M.D.: Coronavirus (COVID-19) FAQ 3-15-20

*We discuss:*



_When the gravity of Coronavirus (COVID-19) hit home [04:30];_
_Hospitalization and ICU bed space as an issue [8:15];_
_Natural history and pathology of COVID-19 [12:00];_
_Potential drug therapies [22:00];_
_How thinking has changed from containment to management [30:00];_
_What Paul and Peter are doing [49:00];_
_What we know about viral transmission [57:00]; and_
_more_
_
- - -

_Recent paper reported fomite survival on different surfaces:

aerosols, up to 3 hours post aerosolization

up to 4 hours on copper

up to 24 hours on cardboard

up to 2-3 days on plastic and stainless steel (13hr median half-life on steel; 16hr median half-life on plastic)


def: fomites: objects or materials which are likely to carry infection, such as clothes, utensils, and furniture.

- - -

you may see / hear R0 - an explanation: basic reproductive number


----------



## RedLED

Rachael_B said:


> Guys, what do you think me and my bf got flight tickets to Spain in June (vacation). Should we return them for a refund or by then everything's gonna be fine? I've heard in China they're going back to normal life.
> Just saw this article... https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/europe/spain-coronavirus-emergency.html


Rachael,

Spain is in full lockdown, and when that is lifted it will take quite some time for them to recover and get back to normal. The thing is nothing on this scale has happened before, so there can only be guesses at this point. Frankly, I would not even want to go to Spain or anywhere right after this event, and I am a professional traveler for my work. 

Europe be could be in a state of chaos for a while, and we are now looking at a complete shut down of the US. I really don't see this all wrapped up by June. It will pass but I would not bet anything on a back to normal situation by June.

For today, keep your plans, as I nor anyone has any answers whatsoever, just Don't wait too long and lose your money. Tourism in a very important industry in every country and you should take your trip when things settle down, and you can expect a hassle free trip. All countries will need people to continue to travel, visit and spend money.

Also, don't believe anything out of China, and The TV networks, and cable news outlets have helped with the insanity of the TP and bottled water hoarding. When this is over, I hope the media pays for what they caused. 

Get your Info. from creditable Web sites for both government and news. The Associated Press is excellent for news reporting.

Good luck, and best wishes,

RedLED


----------



## thermal guy

Last night got a Robocall from kids school. Shutting down till further notice. Pretty sure it’s happening everywhere. So dumped whole paycheck on food and supplies and we’re all hunkered in. The stores in some of the bigger towns are loosing there minds and talking to people they literally think this is the end!I have 3 children and obviously I’m taking precautions but I think the most important thing to do now is to act normal and just carry on. People we will be fine.


----------



## harro

An interesting move here. Supermarkets now refusing refunds on panic buy goods like toilet paper, sanitizer, tissues, rice , pasta and so on. Most of it was ending up on Aus EBay at scalper prices. These people are now stuck with it, and some semblance of restraint is showing. One young gent has 17,000 bottles of hand sanitizer in his garage. Let’s hope he lives long enough to enjoy every bottle. Like seemingly everywhere, the credibility of our media is diving faster than the stock market during the GFC. Our Govt is urging commonsense precautions, but the dang media is twisting it every which way. Not to belittle the effects of COVID19, but the media have a lot to answer for. Will they ever be held to account? Doubtful.


----------



## thermal guy

The thing that drives me nuts in times like this is people not giving a rats [email protected]@ about others. True. You must protect and keep your family safe. That’s number one. But to buy the last 40 rolls of toilet paper or the last 10-20 boxes of baby wipes when you have no children is ridiculous! I got what I needed and a little bit more and I’m good. My local store is keeping the baby wipes and other essential stuff behind the counter so those that need it can get it. Now THATS. What people should be doing in times of need. Not a bad idea to go through your neighborhood and make sure all is ok with others. I did this and half didn’t care about what is going on the others had prepared.guess will see which one has the right idea.


----------



## harro

thermal guy said:


> The thing that drives me nuts in times like this is people not giving a rats [email protected]@ about others. True. You must protect and keep your family safe. That’s number one. But to buy the last 40 rolls of toilet paper or the last 10-20 boxes of baby wipes when you have no children is ridiculous! I got what I needed and a little bit more and I’m good. My local store is keeping the baby wipes and other essential stuff behind the counter so those that need it can get it. Now THATS. What people should be doing in times of need. Not a bad idea to go through your neighborhood and make sure all is ok with others. I did this and half didn’t care about what is going on the others had prepared.guess will see which one has the right idea.




Spot on.


----------



## StarHalo

- The numbers in China, like South Korea, are going down because they were strongly proactive in preventing the spread of the disease; the US, like Italy, has been delayed-reactive and therefore cannot and will not experience the same gentle leveling off of infection numbers.

- The 1-2% fatality rate only holds if medical treatment is available, it only applies to nations whose medical systems are not overloaded due to proactive preparation; reactive nations will necessarily have overloaded medical systems and will experience fatality rates of 5-10% and beyond, plus increased fatality rates of completely unrelated medical problems due to unavailability of care.

- Testing is only relevant at the start of the pandemic, we know 70-80% of the population will have Coronavirus over time, so once the epidemic is underway the focus must be on available medical care and isolation. You should assume you are going to get the disease at some point this year.

- The Coronavirus vaccine timeline shows completion/public release in early 2021; barring some unprecedented scientific breakthrough, there will not be a vaccine this year.

- The virus transmits most strongly at the very onset of symptoms, and perhaps slightly before; if you have even a mild suspicion that you aren't feeling 100%, be aware that you may already be actively infecting those around you. 

The phenomenon of mass buying at stores appears to only be happening in local pockets; yesterday (Saturday morning) at work, we all watched out the break room windows at the Costco across the street, where a line of people with empty shopping carts stretched down the length of the block outside in 50 degree drizzle to earn the opportunity to buy large things in quantity. But then after work, I got dinner at the burger place right outside the same Costco and there was hardly anyone there, plus the Costco Gas was roughly a third empty pumps. So if you shop when/where everyone else shops, that's when/where availability becomes an issue.


----------



## bigburly912

StarHalo said:


> - The numbers in China, like South Korea, are going down because they were strongly proactive in



What??? China tried covering this up and hid it from the rest of the world for at least 2 weeks. There was no proactive anything on their part. China did Nothing right. Nothing. If you want to see being proactive look at Taiwan. The rest of what you wrote is also mostly fear mongering. I’m not saying it isn’t going to get bad but wow


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> ..... we know 70-80% of the population will have Coronavirus over time, so once the epidemic is underway the focus must be on available medical care and isolation. You should assume you are going to get the disease at some point this year. .....


 
I haven't had the flue for 35 years. Why should I assume I'm going to become sick with this particular strain? How do you know 70 -80% of the population will contract Coronavirus?


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I haven't had the flue for 35 years. Why should I assume I'm going to become sick with this particular strain? How do you know 70 -80% of the population will contract Coronavirus?



Because it's not the flu, and flu shots offer no protection from it. Plus it's been found to be far more contagious than the flu.

I'm glad you haven't had the flu for so long - I'm fortunate to be in that same category. I hope none of us or our families catch Covid-19. Some states are starting to take stronger lockdown measures against public gatherings and I think this will help. Stay safe everyone!

**EDIT** Here's a bit of positive news. Dutch researchers have discovered the first antibodies for Covid-19.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

*Coronavirus Disease 2019 vs. the Flu*


Influenza “the flu” and COVID-19, the illness caused by the new coronavirus, are both infectious respiratory illnesses. Although the symptoms of COVID-19 and the flu can look similar, the two illnesses are caused by different viruses.
You can find up-to-date information on COVID-19 at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).
Lisa Maragakis, M.D., M.P.H., senior director of infection prevention at Johns Hopkins, explains how the flu and COVID-19 are similar and how they are different.
*Similarities: COVID-19 and the Flu*

*Symptoms*



Both cause fever, cough, body aches, fatigue; sometimes vomiting and diarrhea.
Can be mild or severe, even fatal in rare cases.
Can result in pneumonia.
*Transmission*



Both can be spread from person to person through droplets in the air from an infected person coughing, sneezing or talking.
A possible difference: COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route (see details below under Differences).
Flu can be spread by an infected person for several days before their symptoms appear, and COVID-19 is believed to be spread in the same manner, but we don’t yet know for sure.
*Treatment*



Neither virus is treatable with antibiotics, which only work on bacterial infections.
Both may be treated by addressing symptoms, such as reducing fever. Severe cases may require hospitalization and support such as mechanical ventilation.
*Prevention*

Both may be prevented by frequent, thorough hand washing, coughing into the crook of your elbow, staying home when sick and limiting contact with people who are infected.

*Differences: COVID-19 and the Flu*

*Cause*

*COVID-19*: Caused by one virus, the novel 2019 coronavirus, now called severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, or SARS-CoV-2.
*Flu*: Caused by any of several different types and strains of influenza viruses.
*Transmission*

While both the flu and COVID-19 may be transmitted in similar ways (see the Similarities section above), there is also a possible difference: COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route, meaning that tiny droplets remaining in the air could cause disease in others even after the ill person is no longer near.
*Antiviral Medications*

*COVID-19*: Antiviral medications are currently being tested to see if they can address symptoms.
*Flu*: Antiviral medications can address symptoms and sometimes shorten the duration of the illness.
*Vaccine*

*COVID-19*: No vaccine is available at this time, though it is in progress.
*Flu*: A vaccine is available and effective to prevent some of the most dangerous types or to reduce the severity of the flu.
*Infections*

*COVID-19*: Approximately 156,400 cases worldwide; 2,952 cases in the U.S. as of Mar. 15, 2020.*
*Flu*: Estimated 1 billion cases worldwide; 9.3 million to 45 million cases in the U.S. per year.
*Deaths*

*COVID-19*: Approximately 5,833 deaths reported worldwide; 57 deaths in the U.S., as of Mar. 15, 2020.*
*Flu*: 291,000 to 646,000 deaths worldwide; 12,000 to 61,000 deaths in the U.S. per year.
The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. Doctors and scientists are working on estimating the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be higher than that of most strains of the flu.
*This information comes from the Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases map developed by the Johns Hopkins Center for Systems Science and Engineering.

​*Coronavirus Disease 2019*

What you need to know from Johns Hopkins Medicine.


----------



## StarHalo

Bigburly912 said:


> What??? China tried covering this up and hid it from the rest of the world for at least 2 weeks.



Correct. And they also have all the pandemic infrastructure still in place from when they had SARS, and their government has the ability to essentially close everything and open new hospitals at a moment's notice. You can't just look at the political aspects of the data, a dictatorship is going to be able to respond in ways other countries can't, but you still have to note the results of that.



Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I haven't had the flue for 35 years. Why should I assume I'm going to become sick with this particular strain? How do you know 70 -80% of the population will contract Coronavirus?



Because you knew to avoid people who had the flu, you can't avoid someone who's going to show mild symptoms of Coronavirus tomorrow. COVID-19 also has very little effect on children, however the child is still transmitting it as much (if not more so) than any other adult while infected. 

The Chief Medical Officer of the United Kingdom says 80%, Angela Merkel of Germany says 70%, so there's two entirely different sets of scientists and data still coming up with roughly the same number.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> .... you can't avoid someone who's going to show mild symptoms of Coronavirus tomorrow. COVID-19 also has very little effect on children, however the child is still transmitting it as much (if not more so) than any other adult while infected. .....



That's some scary excrement, right there. ^


----------



## SCEMan

Bigburly912 said:


> What??? China tried covering this up and hid it from the rest of the world for at least 2 weeks. There was no proactive anything on their part. China did Nothing right. Nothing. If you want to see being proactive look at Taiwan. The rest of what you wrote is also mostly fear mongering. I’m not saying it isn’t going to get bad but wow



More like 2 months. The outbreak most likely started in late fall/early winter and they closed ranks to save face.
https://www.livescience.com/first-case-coronavirus-found.html


----------



## bigburly912

This is complete rumor/conspiracy theory talk and I don’t normally fall into that but does anyone else think it’s funny that this hit right during the middle of political unrest/rioting/demonstrations and it should have just been a regular ol illness but turned into something worse? Kind of makes you think.


----------



## StarHalo

Bigburly912 said:


> This is complete rumor/conspiracy theory talk



Which part?


----------



## bigburly912

StarHalo said:


> Which part?



There’s talk the Chinese government released this virus to try and shut down the protests and didn’t realize what it would turn into. Of course anytime anything happens there’s several theories like that thrown out but this one kind of makes sense. Release a simple Coronavirus to get everyone flu like symptoms and shut them down.

And now they are conveniently trying to blame the virus on the US


----------



## StarHalo

Bigburly912 said:


> There’s talk the Chinese government released this virus to try and shut down the protests and didn’t realize what it would turn into. Of course anytime anything happens there’s several theories like that thrown out but this one kind of makes sense. Release a simple Coronavirus to get everyone flu like symptoms and shut them down.
> 
> And now they are conveniently trying to blame the virus on the US



So all this talk from scientists and numbers is political rumors, but you have a hunch China started the virus and is blaming it on us?


----------



## bigburly912

What are you talking about? I don’t have a hunch about anything and don’t believe any of the conspiracy theories I actually even said that. If you want someone to have a forum **** slinging contest with pick somebody else because I’m shutting it down now. You aren’t important enough for me to argue with over silly stuff. The facts are a whole lot of people are going to get sick. Some people with underlying issues and elderly people are going to die. 80% of the population catching it?? No way.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

nbp said:


> Let’s keep to science and facts and how people are being affected rather than bringing politics into it. Thanks.



LOL. Same two guys.


----------



## bykfixer

It has been said like many new illnesses, this one began from the droppings of an animal. In this case the theory is it began in a live animal market in China. Also theorized is it came from a bat, a snake or an animal in the badger family. Nothing is certain in that regard. It is a version of corona virus called SARS COV-2 and got its "19" from being discovered in the fall of 2019. 

Last time I had the flu was and was really ill was in the mid 1990's when a dastardly bug wrecked everybody I worked with. People who had never had the flu in their 60's got that one. I was down for 3 weeks with that one yet neither of my two (at the time) sons or wife (at the time) got it. Coincidently most had gotten a flu vaccine that year including me. I got a shot in 2003 and tadah!! Got the flu that year too, but one day in bed and I was ok. Sick, but not so bad I missed work. 

As a lad it was a rule of thumb that you stayed home if you had a fever and 24 hours after. I still live by that rule, yet have not needed to since 2003 despite being around my 5 kids who had the flu a number of times. 

Chances are good nearly everyone who reads this will come in contact with this beer bug thing. But chances are also good many may never know it. We probably come in contact with other bugs that caused pandemics but since as each morphs into a new strain it is a lot weaker with each generation, except for Ebola. That one would definitely cause me to take a leave of absence from work and stock up on toilet paper. 

The tin hat folks say this is Chinas answer to a trade deal they don't like while China says it was the US Army trying to wipe out China's middle class. I personally think it's the Russians. It's gotta be. Ever since Bush left it's been the Russians fault.

Meanwhile, somewhere in America:


----------



## bigburly912

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> LOL. Same two guys.



When someone throws out that 80-90% of the population is going to catch a virus that nobody really understands and says China did everything right I’m going to call them out on it. In person, on a forum, anywhere. If it hadn’t been covered up more countries would have had time to prepare. Taiwan, caught wind of the virus and immediately shut everything down. Only 50 people have had the virus in Taiwan.


----------



## PartyPete

Well, my wife just got over influenza A and now has potentially had contact with someone suspected of Corona virus. Not to mention we were at an event last weekend with a report of someone positive for it as well. 

School has been cancelled for the next 2 weeks. There's literally no water or toilet paper on shelves anywhere around here. 

Trying to stay positive here but this is certainly a bit more widespread than any past public health crisis I can remember...


----------



## archimedes

I'm sure most of us would like to keep this thread open for further discussion of this rapidly evolving situation.

I would like to please request that the more volatile aspects be taken to CPF Underground or elsewhere.

Those would include overtly political discussion or wild speculation not currently factually supported.

Thank you for understanding, as many are extremely stressed (even near panicked) about this pandemic.


----------



## archimedes

At its core, CPF is (more-or-less) a "preparedness" oriented site, so these situations are of intense interest to our members as well as to the public at large.

I will add that I have experienced multiple epidemics (including prior pandemics) up close and personal.

I believe that COVID-19 must be taken seriously indeed. At the same time, the levels of panic appear to have ramped up to nearly (if not entirely) unprecedented levels.

Taking sensible measures based on relevant risk factors, and staying calm, is likely a wise and prudent course of action.

Personally, I do not expect this to be the Andromeda Strain or doomsday, but if society completely melts down over this as such, then a bad situation would become far worse.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

A friend scored some TP today. He said it was pretty scary.


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> LOL. Same two guys.



We're both on record, so now time will tell.



archimedes said:


> I do not expect this to be the Andromeda Strain or doomsday, but if society completely melts down over this as such, then a bad situation would become far worse.



It's not about a social meltdown so much as doctors having to make some very hard decisions and what that could mean for loved ones. If your local hospital has 200 respirators and 1,000 Coronavirus patients, some will get it and some won't. It's not so much about the number of people who are going to be sick, but the number sick at the same time; don't focus on the 70-80% number because it distracts from the fact that an unmanageably large chunk of that number will be simultaneously.



Chauncey Gardiner said:


> A friend scored some TP today. He said it was pretty scary.



If you have mail-delivery "subscription" service for these kinds of supplies, you always have at least a reserve on hand and almost always more on the way.


----------



## bigburly912

StarHalo said:


> We're both on record, so now time will tell



Wow.


----------



## bykfixer

PartyPete said:


> Well, my wife just got over influenza A and now has potentially had contact with someone suspected of Corona virus. Not to mention we were at an event last weekend with a report of someone positive for it as well.
> 
> School has been cancelled for the next 2 weeks. There's literally no water or toilet paper on shelves anywhere around here.
> 
> Trying to stay positive here but this is certainly a bit more widespread than any past public health crisis I can remember...



Pete, you've just gotta keep things in perspective. I ran across five people today who claim to have come in contact with a positive case, yet the "official" count in my area is one case in a 50 mile radius. So be prepared for "stories" meant to make some folks lives seem more dramatic. 

Eat lots of fruits and veggies and you will need a lot less toilet paper. Contact local 5 gallon water bottle suppliers since offices galore are closing so demand is less. And remember your typical water heater holds 40 gallons of drinkable water. If you have extra containers, fill them about 75% with water and freeze them. And remember what one post showed where a wee bit of rubbing alcohol can make up a bunch of hand sanitizer. 
It's going to be ok.


----------



## alpg88

i'll let you guys in on a secret, kleenex tissue works just as good as tp. and it is still available. it also a lot safer for pipes and septic systems than paper towels


----------



## RedLED

Thanks, 88!


----------



## nbp

Of course none of us wants the elderly to die from COVID19 related complications. But you might find this snippet from an NPR article interesting. 

“The coronavirus has demonstrated its potential lethality among the old and frail in Kirkland, but the infections that nursing homes already battle with mixed success — influenza and antibiotic-resistant bacteria like methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) — can be equally fatal. As many as 3.8 million infections occur in nursing homes each year, killing nearly 388,000 residents.”

The sad reality is that most of the people who will die of COVID19 were already likely going to die of an existing bacterial or viral infection. The name has only changed. That doesn’t mean we should throw caution to the wind and give up on efforts to minimize the impact, but my guess is that likely this will simply replace a lot of the well known lethal infections this year rather than add significantly to them.


----------



## ven

NHS in UK is very unprepared , cuts in funding for years(decades) is going to show where ventilators are required.

I think it’s important to help the older ones here. Anyone local(of course avoiding any contact and keeping distance). Where possible shopping or ??? to help the over 70’s especially. It might be easy for folks to grab lots of X and Y (toilet rolls to!). Imagine struggling in the first place to get to a super market , then to find bare shelves. 

Fresh air and if lucky enough get some sun. This does wonders in itself. 
Take care everyone,


----------



## scout24

Regarding intensive care beds, ventilators, etc. I cannot fault the healthcare system for not having a tenfold fudge factor built in to what they have on hand equipment, space, or trained personnel wise. You cannot possibly plan for something that taxes resources to this potential extent. No corner of society does that. Municipalities dealing with storms, power companies stocking poles and transformers, it is simply impossible to plan for all contingincies and be ready for them. It will be what it will be, we'll either come together as a society or we won't, and it will play out over time. Prepare for as much isolation as you can, and hang in there. We're realistically 90 days into a global situation, there's a long way still to go. Let's have CPF remain the bastion of civility and cooperation it has always been. There's not a better group of people on the internet...


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

alpg88 said:


> i'll let you guys in on a secret, kleenex tissue works just as good as tp. and it is still available. it also a lot safer for pipes and septic systems than paper towels



Anything other than TP should be disposed of with household refuse. Kleenex and even disposable wipes should not be flushed.


----------



## RedLED

scout24 said:


> Regarding intensive care beds, ventilators, etc. I cannot fault the healthcare system for not having a tenfold fudge factor built in to what they have on hand equipment, space, or trained personnel wise. You cannot possibly plan for something that taxes resources to this potential extent. No corner of society does that. Municipalities dealing with storms, power companies stocking poles and transformers, it is simply impossible to plan for all contingincies and be ready for them. It will be what it will be, we'll either come together as a society or we won't, and it will play out over time. Prepare for as much isolation as you can, and hang in there. We're realistically 90 days into a global situation, there's a long way still to go. Let's have CPF remain the bastion of civility and cooperation it has always been. There's not a better group of people on the internet...


Very well stated.


----------



## ven

scout24 said:


> Regarding intensive care beds, ventilators, etc. I cannot fault the healthcare system for not having a tenfold fudge factor built in to what they have on hand equipment, space, or trained personnel wise. You cannot possibly plan for something that taxes resources to this potential extent. No corner of society does that. Municipalities dealing with storms, power companies stocking poles and transformers, it is simply impossible to plan for all contingincies and be ready for them. It will be what it will be, we'll either come together as a society or we won't, and it will play out over time. Prepare for as much isolation as you can, and hang in there. We're realistically 90 days into a global situation, there's a long way still to go. Let's have CPF remain the bastion of civility and cooperation it has always been. There's not a better group of people on the internet...




I cant comment on other countries health care scout, i know Italy have a very good system and better than UK's(from what i have read and led to believe ). Here in the UK, the NHS is under tremendous strain, cost cutting, under funding. Not this year, we are talking years and years. So we are severely under prepared for even winter!!! The cold and flu's, push the NHS to and past limits. Now with the potential(quoted from scientists), there could literally be 1,000,000's effected, up to 7 million!!! Not this week, nor next, we are looking into next winter, spring and summer. Our gov are trying to delay the impact to summer, to lessen the burden on the NHS which is struggling before the COVID-19. 

What is strange, the rest of europe seem to be doing the same things(schools, cinema, gatherings, all but essential shops shut etc etc). Yet here in the UK and totally different stand. Trouble is, each day its multiplying, by what who knows. The more with, the more chance of spread and so it continues. Weeks back was the time to act, some countries did not take serious, now they are. Its too late for catch up, just have to work together best we can.

Its a lot of unknown, we have to stay calm and help each other where possible. We will get through this, no doubt there. But the future holds a lot of inconvenience, worry, unknown financial and work issues. All of us will be effected, no doubt there to. Heck its not even started yet and already shops are running out. 

Stay safe brother and all CPF. together we are stronger.:twothumbs


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Currently the Tacoma-Pierce County Health Department website has a link -Blog: Yes it's still safe to dine out during the COVID-19 outbreak 

However, our governor has ordered all eating establishments to stop serving patrons except for drive-through and carry-out. 
Inslee statement on statewide shutdown of restaurants & new gathering limits 

We're from the government and we're here to help ........ unfortunately, we don't know what we're doing. :sigh:


----------



## orbital

+

Health & Human Services had a cyber attack today,, how about a short list on where that originated.


_things are less random than we think_


----------



## TIP AND RING

This too shall pass. Everyday is a priceless gift.


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## bykfixer

I had said previously it has been said the thing may have begun with an animal kin to the badger. It is more like an ardvak than a badger: an article
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/ar...ngolins-may-have-spread-the-disease-to-humans

I also found a chart from the WHO that in essence says: 
80%+ who get this will have mild symptoms. Dry cough, slight fever
14% who get it will have breathlessness and/or pnuemonia
5% septic shock, respitory or organ failure. 
2% fatality. 

It is more like a bad @$$ cold than the flu. Yet it is much milder than SARS or MERS according to experts. The fly in the ointment is how easily it spreads compared to other previous coronas. 
It lives in cooler temps and higher humidity than the previous ones and lingers in air longer. The good news as the press tries to convince you otherwise it the numbers being reported (not grand total but daily total) has been declining since the world said "uh oh, this could get serious". And if everybody hangs in there this thing could be like SARS in ten years. SARS? what was that?" It was a severe acute resportary syndrome that killed about 15% of those who got it in 2003 and since disappeared. SARS-COVID-2 is it's weaker little brother. 

Stay calm folks Formula One Season begins soon.

Oh, the Purell everybody is Jonesing on, it turns out to be too mild to be an effective corona killer. Studies are showing it is ok to halt it but that it takes up to 15 minutes to actually kill the virus. Hydrogyn Peroxide kills it the fastest, less than a minute, and one of the chemicals in chlorine bleach kills it in a minute or two.


----------



## SCEMan

Most worrisome is that apparent asymptomatic carriers are driving the infection surge. We can only hope that a vaccine is developed and distributed widely ASAP.


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## RedLED

SCEMan said:


> Most worrisome is that apparent asymptomatic carriers are driving the infection surge. We can only hope that a vaccine is developed and distributed widely ASAP.


Even with the fast track approvals, and if they find something that works, it would be many months away.


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## Dave D

It is not a big a$$ cold or the flu!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfkbv_WQtn0


----------



## bykfixer

RedLED said:


> Even with the fast track approvals, and if they find something that works, it would be many months away.


One thing they are working on is the way the HIV virus attacks cells and how they have developed medication to in a word "halt" the virus from harming the human. Right now that is what folks in Hong Kong and other labs are theorizing now that they can replicate this new version of a virus that yes Dave also causes the common cold. 

I have been geeking out on this thing for several days from dozens and dozens of sources not affilated with the alphabet news organizations. What works, what don't, what they know, what they don't. I wanted to know things like will I get sick, my neighbors, my kids, my dog? Can I get it from cats, bats or butterflies? How long will this bug be around? Why does it spread so easily? How to kill it? 

I have learned that most of us will be just fine. Yet this is a virus that is brand new so nobody is immune yet. Fortunately it is not going to be fatal to the vast majority. But it a tough bug to kill without human assistance at times. Most viruses are fragile so they do not survive outside of a very narrow set of conditions. This one has expanded the boundries of those conditions, which is why it is spreading. If HIV for example could have spread through such broad conditions as the beer bug, the animals might have the entire planet to themselves minus pockets of humans. Luckily for us this virus is nowhere near as deadly as HIV once was. It still kills without treatment. That treatment (or a derivitive) may be what halts the beer bug.

By the end of the week over a million test kits will be available. Next week it is expected to triple. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million masks will be available to hospitals in the next couple of weeks. Companies, schools and businesses are responding by adapting to online items where possible, drive through will be available at most burger joints and coffee sellers like Chic Fillet and Dunkin Donuts. Grocery stores are shortening hours to spend time cleaning and restocking shelves. This may get worse in some places. But other places may hardly skip a beat. At todays white house press conference the press was being cool, even patriotic all while practicing the reccomended social distancing. Our government is looking at ways to help out folks who are not allowed to work and my local Food Lion had lots of bottled water, toilet paper and fresh meats.


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## jabe1

NOT a badass cold or flu.
most of us have antibodies for cold and flu bugs. Most of us do not have antibodies for Coronaviruses, certainly not a novel type (Not before seen). We are all at some level of risk.
keep a level head, stay at home unless it’s necessary to go somewhere.
listen to the CDC, not all the yahoos out there.


----------



## ven

Yes agree jabe, this is serious and has to be taken so. For a start, flu has a mortality rate of 0.1%. this so far from what we know have had(emphasis on know) is around 1%. Figures will differ of course, many will not know, many will have mild symptoms. 

Its a minority thats at ris of the worst case scenario, but the minority is still millions added up!!!

Stay safe. Take serious. Dont panic. Together we are strong! Unfortunately not literally.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

> paper towels


kitchen towels

i just filled three 5 gallon bottles at the dispensor right outside an albertson's (grocery store) and there was no line, no fuss, runs, errors.

was walking into a grocery store and a random guy walking out says out loud_ nothing there_. i walked out with my purchases; couple cans of peeled tomatoes and paste (to make low carb ketchup), and a few tubs of guacamole for some avocado.

drove up to a smith's at 6am and a sign said we now open at 8am (seems more are opening later (walmart)) to stock / clean up after the zombies hordes. i arrive at 8am and there's a line so i said uh uh and went home. got online and created an account and made my purchase (a few cans of wild caught salmon) for pickup.


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## StarHalo

- The French are finding that anti-inflammatory painkillers (ibuprofen, aspirin, naproxen, cortisone) can aggravate COVID-19 infection and can create complications; if you believe you or a loved one could possibly have Coronavirus, stick to acetaminophen/Tylenol or paracetamol for fever reduction. 

- A recent university study found Vitamin D supplementation significantly reduced the risk and severity of respiratory infection, not something that would normally be all that notable except COVID-19 is a respiratory infection; results were best with those who had a Vitamin D deficiency prior to supplementing, but nearly all participants saw some benefit. Details

Re: Shopping and prepping; *Survivorman Les Stroud* explains basic home food preparation for emergencies and quarantining:


----------



## TomK85

StarHalo said:


> - The French are finding that anti-inflammatory painkillers (ibuprofen, aspirin, naproxen, cortisone) can aggravate COVID-19 infection and can create complications; if you believe you or a loved one could possibly have Coronavirus, stick to acetaminophen/Tylenol or paracetamol for fever reduction.
> 
> - A recent university study found Vitamin D supplementation significantly reduced the risk and severity of respiratory infection, not something that would normally be all that notable except COVID-19 is a respiratory infection; results were best with those who had a Vitamin D deficiency prior to supplementing, but nearly all participants saw some benefit. Details
> 
> Re: Shopping and prepping; *Survivorman Les Stroud* explains basic home food preparation for emergencies and quarantining:




Regarding the first: for now it’s not confirmed. And yes I read the article in the Lancet which was only talking about people with cardiac condition, hypertension and diabetes.


----------



## bykfixer

Back in 2003 a coworker came in the office one day saying he had a fever. It was flu season. Everybody said "get outta here, go home and stay home". He hung around that day all coughing and sneezing. A week later everybody else was sick. That dude was wiped out for two weeks. The rest of us stayed out for a day or two. I was down for one day but felt like crap for a few more. We called it "the 101.2 flu" because everybody who got it was running a temperature around 101.2. One guy died. He was the sort who smoked 100 cigarettes a day for 50 years and drank liquor like there was no tomorrow. 

Most never went to a doctor because we knew to starve a cold, feed a fever and most important avoid contact with the elderly. We treated it like the flu. Duh. Unbeknownst to us it may have been that SARS thing. See back then it was on the news and all but there wasn't the death clock being updated every 15 minutes like it is with that one. We never got reported because we didn't go to the doctor. Statistically the SARS had a 10% death rate. But on a construction project in South Hill Va 100+ people got it, one Keith Richards wanna be died. It probably wasn't SARS but if it was or not did not matter. Because none of us paid attention to that kind of stuff. 

By the way, in 2011 my pop got a conrona that causes a head cold and complications from it took him home to be with my mother. Post nasal drip caused his weakened lungs to develop a pnuemonia. Pnuemonia led to his weakened heart failing. So we call our elderly neighbors instead of visiting. In my home we are treating this thing just like we have always done in cold and flu season. We avoid crowded restaraunts every year at this time of year. Wipe down stuff with clorox wipes, keep a supply of rubbing alcohol and peroxide around and avoid touching our face as much as practical. If my face itches I scratch it with a nearby object. I use a shirt sleeve to grab door handles and if someone nearby sneezes I say "bless you" as I walk away from that person.

Instead of the usual hoe-hum eh, it's cold season, there's a pill for that attitude of modern day thinking, we just need to do what our ancestors did before anti biotics, vaccines and over the counter medicines and adopt common sense approaches when we do HAVE to mingle with the population. At least for the next few weeks. It was 4, then 8, then 16, then 32 and so on. Soon it will be 612, then 356, then 128 and so on just like it was in 2003 during the SARS thing. Just don't be that guy I worked with back then who single handedly directly or indirectly infected over 100 people by going out sick due to not understanding the importance of self quarentine during an outbreak of a new strain of the corona virus one year.


----------



## ledbetter

Thanks for the link to the very informative Dr.Campbell youtube video. Science not nonsense!

QUOTE=TomK85;5373852]Regarding the first: for now it’s not confirmed. And yes I read the article in the Lancet which was only talking about people with cardiac condition, hypertension and diabetes.[/QUOTE]


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## Poppy

StarHalo,
Thanks for the Les Stroud video.


> Re: Shopping and prepping; *Survivorman Les Stroud explains basic home food preparation for emergencies and quarantining:*



The take-away for me was to create a menu for my four person party for a month and to shop for the stuff I don't have.

I considered that I have 5 lbs of flour that can be used to make bread. It takes about 3-4 cups of flour for each loaf. We are good for about 6-8 loaves. Never made it before so I looked up a recipe, and needed to pick up some yeast!

I plan to make up a menu, take inventory and make sure that I have sufficient complements to go with the meals, such as... enough sauce to go with each of the boxes of pasta.


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## JimIslander

I caught the Corona Virus a few years ago. Cost me about $2000 in flashlights. :thumbsup:


----------



## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Back in 2003 a coworker came in the office one day saying he had a fever. It was flu season. Everybody said "get outta here, go home and stay home". He hung around that day all coughing and sneezing. A week later everybody else was sick. .


Good story Mr Fixer :thumbsup:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

6 am this morning at Albertsons's - 

Paper products 





Bread - 





I asked the cashier when they expected the paper products to be restocked. 

She said - "Tomorrow at 5am. Be here then or you won't get any."


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## raggie33

This is why I hate mustard


----------



## ven

Its ridiculous, this should be stopped and monitored by staff or if not enough(usual case this side of the pond). Then regulate at check out. Selfish self centred a55 holes. Some supermarkets are opening early for the older people, which i think is great. They are also limiting certain items.

Heck bread lasts 3 days or so, i know you can freeze it but come on for gods sake. Common sense is not common.

The elderly lady across the road is making me a list of stuff which i will be doing after work, we just need to work together. Its not hard, but darn the minority of fools that make it that way. 

Stay safe.......apologies, rant over for now.


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## bykfixer

Here in the US some stores are creating "elderly hours" too. I got a lump in my throat when I heard that. Bravo!! 

In a grocery store yesterday a fellow in front of me did his thing to check out. A worker halted me until she had wiped down everything that fellow had touched. That was pretty cool too. 

I was scheduled to travel to a part of my state where there are 5 known cases to photograph a project. I postponed it just to be certain. As it turns out one of the cases is a fellow who had been part of a crew installing waterline near where I work everyday. His company quarentined his crew and all 3 other crews just in case. 

Meanwhile in Germany studies show those infected are most contagious in the first few days. Those with mild symptoms tend to stop being contagious after around 5 days where those with serious symptoms as much as 10 days being contagious. Yet most still show positive in tests for a few weeks. Another good news is most build up antibodies within 48 hours. Question now is if a person can get it again. The jury is still out but it does not appear likely.


----------



## Tachead

ven said:


> Its ridiculous, this should be stopped and monitored by staff or if not enough(usual case this side of the pond). Then regulate at check out. Selfish self centred a55 holes. Some supermarkets are opening early for the older people, which i think is great. They are also limiting certain items.
> 
> Heck bread lasts 3 days or so, i know you can freeze it but come on for gods sake. Common sense is not common.
> 
> The elderly lady across the road is making me a list of stuff which i will be doing after work, we just need to work together. Its not hard, but darn the minority of fools that make it that way.
> 
> Stay safe.......apologies, rant over for now.


Yep, completely ridiculous and I agree. Especially since most of the TP and tissue is made in country(in the US & Canada at least). Not to mention TP is not even essential and there are far more essential commodities if things get really bad lol. All they are doing is hurting other people who aren't panicky idiots. Its good to see stores starting to limit purchases at least.

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


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## ven

Great stuff, we should certainly prioritise with the elderly and most at risk.

This is worth a watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgc_K2x-GKA

Some good info in here.


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## StarHalo

What is a fever?


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I ended up accompanying my mother to the commissary at JMLM (formally McChord AFB) today. We were greeted by two MP's (military police) who asked us if we had a fever, cough, were feeling sick or had been in contact with anyone that was. After we answered, "No." we were allowed inside. There were three more MP's standing guard at the only allowed exit door making sure no one entered the building via it. 

I thought sure there'd be some toilet paper. No way the US Air Force and Army would allow their people to do without.


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## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I thought sure there'd be some toilet paper. No way the US Air Force and Army would allow their people to do without.



Wal-Mart restocks their tp in the morning at open.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> Wal-Mart restocks their tp in the morning at open.



Film at 11.


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## 5S8Zh5

as of monday 3-16, our af base is in lockdown; mission essential personnel only and families allowed on base. retirees can get meds at the base satellite pharmacy, but other facilities are now closed to them; club, gym, commissary. medical is not on base but across the street.

and in other news


An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19) 3-13-20

Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studies


----------



## ven

Well I am home, sent home by work director as my Callum is off school(symptoms without the cough). Had a meeting and something must have been mentioned. So 2 weeks quarantine for me! I find it frustrating to be honest, I know it’s highly unlikely but have to be safe(get the safe bit). But this is going to make it worse longer term. In 2 weeks what happens then. COVID-19 ain’t going anywhere soon, that I am sure of. So then i might possibly get it, then what, more time off. 

I will add I am lucky to get full pay and it does not effect sick (not had day off for years). As with others like me , it just does not sit right being off. Integrity , pride, what ever it is. But I am not dwelling on it, will get odd jobs done and make most. Always have to make a positive out of a negative. Family time, rest, catch up on jobs n watch Netflix haha. 

Stay safe, this will be coming to you guys , be it next week or next month. Might be different government to government , but UK side it’s 2 weeks up to now.


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## 5S8Zh5

An Effective Treatment for Coronavirus (COVID-19) 3-13-20

Breakthrough: Chloroquine phosphate has shown apparent efficacy in treatment of COVID-19 associated pneumonia in clinical studies

- - -


----------



## Poppy

ven said:


> Well I am home, sent home by work director as my Callum is off school(symptoms without the cough). Had a meeting and something must have been mentioned. So 2 weeks quarantine for me! I find it frustrating to be honest, I know it’s highly unlikely but have to be safe(get the safe bit). But this is going to make it worse longer term. In 2 weeks what happens then. COVID-19 ain’t going anywhere soon, that I am sure of. So then i might possibly get it, then what, more time off.
> 
> I will add I am lucky to get full pay and it does not effect sick (not had day off for years). As with others like me , it just does not sit right being off. Integrity , pride, what ever it is. But I am not dwelling on it, will get odd jobs done and make most. Always have to make a positive out of a negative. Family time, rest, catch up on jobs n watch Netflix haha.
> 
> Stay safe, this will be coming to you guys , be it next week or next month. Might be different government to government , but UK side it’s 2 weeks up to now.


Sorry ven.
I hope Callum's symptoms are just seasonal allergies, a reaction to the dust around the house due to construction, or a cold.

I got a call from my boss yesterday too. We'll close the office for three weeks. Unfortunately for me as an independent contractor, if I don't work, I don't get paid.

My problem is... if I don't work, I get bored. 

The up side is... the weather is getting nicer, there will be more time for bar-b-queing and there will be more family time "fingers crossed that we don't kill each other."

Last night the kids stayed up past my bed-time to finish a puzzle we started earlier in the day.
When I took this picture, I noticed a little sign... "It's All Good!"
I just smiled. :thumbsup:


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## ven

I am pretty sure it’s a season flu thing but can not be certain. Each day at a time poppy, I think most will not be working in a week or so. Scotland and wales are shutting all schools from Friday . England won’t be far behind !

Yes take advantage and have family time , you can still go out in the car. Go somewhere away from people out in the open. Fresh air is a must! Stay safe poppy and family.


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## Dave D

Here in Spain in the past 6 days cases have risen from 3126 to 13716 which is over a 400% increase.

The latest figures are -

*Spain

*Cases 13,716
Deaths 610 (4.4%)
Recovered 1,081
Hospitalised 5,717 (42%)
Intensive Care 774 (7.5%) % based on number of deaths and those currently in ICU.

*Italy*
Cases 31,506
Deaths 2503 (7.9%)
Recovered 2,941

I cannot find numbers for hospitalisation rates in any other country.

*China*

Cases 81,129
Deaths 3241 (3.99%)
Recovered 69,601

So apparently China has had over 81,000 cases and italy has had less than 35,000 yet China has only had 738 more deaths than Italy!

Personally I do not believe the figures that China are supplying regarding the number of deaths, if they are correct what makes Italys death rate almost double?

When you see a hospitalisation % of 42% it's obvious why Countries are trying to stop this with lockdowns because heath systems won't be able to cope.


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## ven

I dont believe either Dave, besides that, we get to know what they want us to know. This just has not appeared in December, no proof but imo its months before, and being hidden for that time. 
Those figures sure give food for thought!
One day at a time, stay safe Dave, fresh air and flashlights is Dr Vens prescription 

I want to know in 2 weeks and i go back, i could have actually picked it up! As every day /week goes by, the chance of catching grows stronger.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Has anyone given any thought to how the close-talkers are weathering the new social distancing recommendations? One wonders how they'll be able to communicate?


----------



## ven

Haha, well they text each other sat opposite at tables, updating their faceache page that they are going for a sh1t. 

Hope your good CG and the loverly mrs gardiner. 

I have 2 weeks of internet searching and buying stuff........darn it. I am now an official full time spender


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Looks like this is going to last longer than two weeks. Schools are being directed to set up some sort of online training or take home homework packet for students for the rest of the school year. The government is trying to get out two or three $1,000 checks to each household starting April 6. My workplace is shut down for at least 2 weeks. Church services are cancelled until further notice. People are stocking up on guns and ammo. Apparently, some states are taking advantage of emergency measures to deal with corona virus to sneak in some gun confiscations. The stock market is crashing. The National Guard is being mobilized in several states. The sh1t has hit the fan and the a holes used up all the t.p.


----------



## bykfixer

Italy has a huge population of old people getting this virus. In the case of China they had a huge crackdown of population movement. Like marshall law on steroids. Italy on the other hand did not take it serious at first. 
Iran has had a bunch of government officials die but that is largely due to their government being run by people who make Keith Richards look young. China middle class are largely young people mainly because so many people did not make it out of the 1970's there. 

You have to look at things in 3 dimensions and stop staring at the death clock to know what is really taking place. My governor for example today announced that now that our state is up to 77 cases he is worried that hospitals will soon be overwhelmed. Yet there's like 500 hospitals in my state and only 5 cases have resulted in people being hospitalized. Another example is some countries are using test kits that have as much as a 50% error rate. Up to 47% positives are false and worse up to 50% negatives are false. When WHO talked to the US about trying out their latest version the US said "nah" and called on their private sector to develop them. A lab in Ohio is churning out millions. A 3M lab was contracted to make 10 million 95 masks by the end of the month so healthcare workers across the globe can be protected. 

All these "restrictions" if you will are meant to flatten the bell curve of case numbers going up to case numbers going down. When China did the big crackdown in February the cases started dropping soon after according to charts at the WHO who monitored the whole thing. The only cases happening in China since March 5th (again according to WHO) are coming from people who live outside of China. They are all but back to normal now. 

I work outdoors fixing potholes so we keep working like hospitals and grocery stores. In my 32 years of doing that the only time it halted was on 911 and that was for one day. But I know of people who are self quarentined right now. Yeah, it'll probably get worse in some places but other places are already seeing the number of reported cases dropping. The company I work for has given us the option to work from home. But I can't exactly test a load of concrete 30 miles from my sofa.

In the meantime a bunch of people in, oh heck I forget, Australlia? (no India) are getting well due to a combination of medicines, others in Seattle Washington (USA) are getting vacinated with a new vacine, plasma transfusions from recovered people are curing sick people and a 103 year old lady went home from the hospital in China today after being stricken with the COVID-19 virus.


----------



## Keitho

For a few days in a row, my bike rides have been through a Mayberry-like series of neighborhoods and parks with 10x the numbers of people that I normally see. Parents are out with kids, kids are playing with siblings and other kids in non-organized groups, and in general people look relieved and happy to spend time doing something other than work and organized large-group activities. It would be easy for me to be a shut-in and think that the world outside looks like an apocalypse; a sure antidote for me is to turn off my computer and actually go outside to see what the world truly looks like. I hope that my local government doesn't impose strict drone-enforced "everyone stay inside" orders--our mental health depends on our ability to get outside and enjoy the world, even if its on a solo bike ride or in a small family unit.


----------



## Dave D

bykfixer, I'm sure that if a tsunami was heading your way you'd just get your surfboard out!! 

Stay safe!

I'll catch up with you on the other side of this!!:twothumbs


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## bykfixer

Enjoy keith, enjoy.

Tsunami? Surf's up dude. 
The best part of a tsunami is the wave going back out.


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## LGT

I see the same thing happening here in Massachusetts, Parents with their young children walking along the shoreline, running through parks, and just doing leisurely activities, suddenly everything doesn’t have to be crammed into a two day weekend. It’s a good thing to see amidst all of the uncertainty of what’s to be the final outcome of all of this.


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## idleprocess

The number of cases in the DFW area is increasing, which hardly comes as a shock.

Dallas county ordered most flavours of public gathering places closed Monday at 00:00. Adjacent Tarrant County _(where Fort Worth resides)_ looks to be following suit. The counties to the north of either do not look to have followed suit ... yet ... meaning they are curiously seeing some business from core city-dwellers who would ordinarily eschew the suburbs.

Helped shut down the local Makerspace yesterday lest we incur the wrath of a County Judge that we technically were neither a "club" nor a "meeting hall" mentioned in the order - reopen date indefinite but surely not until April at the absolute earliest. 

Neighborhood has been quiet this week with the kids on Spring Break and parental units having made plans to entertain/detain them this week; next week is when things will be interesting with schools cancelled / online for at least a week outside of parents' planning windows. Fuel is stupidly cheap but toilet paper, anything with alcohol/bleach in it, canned goods, and even bottled water running empty in area stores. Local PD's seem to have been relieved of their revenue ranger duties and is saving their strength for more urgent problems.

I've yet to hear anything from my employer WFH, however I expect that when I return to work next week it will be from my home office.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

While taking toilet paper inventory last night I really started to panic. We only had eight rolls. 

But then I saw this >





Did some quick math and was greatly relieved. Seems we actually have 32. 

So, we're good to go.


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## bykfixer

https://youtu.be/uo7HB-slsm4


How about some humor?

https://youtu.be/dRwTr5BMzwM


----------



## bigburly912

The World Health Organization (WHO) is now haunted by a tweet it sent earlier this year when it cited Chinese health officials who claimed there had been no human transmissions of the novel coronavirus within the country yet.
The Jan. 14 tweet came less than two months before WHO declared COVID-19 to be a global pandemic.

Hmmmmmm


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

bykfixer said:


> How about some humor?



How about some humor? 

... greatly relieved ... 

... good to go ... 

Come on man! That's comedy gold! :wave: 

Tough crowd! :sweat:


----------



## turbodog

PhotonWrangler said:


> From what I've been reading, many of the people who get really sick from this virus come down with pneumonia. While there's no vaccine for coronavirus yet, there is a pneumonia vaccine. This seems like a good way to be proactive.



I'm a month late, but corona begets viral pneumonia... IIRC there's no vaccine for that version.


----------



## Keitho

bykfixer said:


> https://youtu.be/uo7HB-slsm4
> 
> 
> How about some humor?



Chuck Norris was exposed to COVID-19. COVID-19 is now under observation in a 14-day quarantine!


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Keitho said:


> Chuck Norris was exposed to COVID-19. COVID-19 is now under observation in a 14-day quarantine!


What did you expect? Chuck Norris knows how to fight kung flu.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Keitho said:


> Chuck Norris was exposed to COVID-19. COVID-19 is now under observation in a 14-day quarantine!



I read Chuck was exposed by a very formidable opponent, the phlegm of sum yung gai.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Hooked on Fenix said:


> What did you expect? Chuck Norris knows how to fight kung flu.



Thanks, I needed this today!


----------



## Fireclaw18

My local county in California had 189 confirmed cases as of yesterday with 62 hospitalizations and 6 deaths from Coronavirus.

Entire region is in "shelter in place" now. It's work-from-home time.


----------



## jrgold

Fireclaw18 said:


> My local county in California had 189 confirmed cases as of yesterday with 62 hospitalizations and 6 deaths from Coronavirus.
> 
> Entire region is in "shelter in place" now. It's work-from-home time.



What county? I’m in contra costa which was one of the first to be locked down


----------



## RedLED

Fireclaw18 said:


> My local county in California had 189 confirmed cases as of yesterday with 62 hospitalizations and 6 deaths from Coronavirus.
> 
> Entire region is in "shelter in place" now. It's work-from-home time.



Where do you live, Chief?


----------



## bykfixer

Mrs Fixer and I ventured out this evening to see what our town was like. We stopped at a grocery store and laughed at all the empty shelves. $1 cans of tuna gone. 500 cans of $1.09 cans though. Seriously. Then the lady with a mask goes by with like 50 frozen pizzas, Lord knows how many rolls of paper towels and stuff like it's the end of the world. 

I wanted frozen oj but they were out so we went to another grocery store where everybody there was as cool as a polar bears toenails, well except for the line waiting on the fresh shrimp. The whole store smelled like the ocean. Had me hankering for some shrimp for dinner. They had plenty of oj too. 

So then we went looking for some shrimp for dinner but many restaraunts were closed or had the max ten folks inside with 100 waiting to get in. We took a drive around the busy shopping district and witnessed a sureal setting. It was like the rapture had occured or something. It was really awesome to see that so many are staying home right now. We ended up at an Arbys drive thru and got fresh food. Parked in an otherwise full parking lot that was empty and watched a beautiful sunset with the windows rolled down in 73 degree weather. 

No rain, nor storm clouds were around but there was a rainbow over the nearby Food Lion. It was like God was telling everybody "chill, I got this".


----------



## harro

Haha, we have had busloads of Melbourne( cap city of Victoria Aus) people coming out into the bush and raiding all the supermarkets. Literally stripping shelves bare. Its to a point where supermarkets are hiring security, and checking prospective customers id for address. 12 miles seems to be the norm. In six months when all the garage sales start, i am going to stock up on t.p. which will be cheap and in in abundance. The herd mentality and panic is crazy. Aus borders are now closed totally out and in to only Aus citizens still out. Even the tiny little island to the South of the Aus mainland, Tasmania i think its called, has closed its borders to the mainland!!!


----------



## PhotonWrangler

A high school choir concert in California was cancelled due to coronavirus concerns. However this didn't stop them from putting on the show remotely.


----------



## ven

Cali issues a stay at home for the 40,000,000 residents........stay safe guys and gals, inevitable no doubt. Other states will follow in time.......

It will be like walking dead, i am sure not looking forward to driving up and down the same darn road for 10 seasons!!!!!


----------



## pilo7448

No lockdown here in Vegas yet but all non-essential services have been shut down..(slot machines, restaurants, bars.. Etc) This is a tourist town so it'll be a while before we recover after all this, it's not hard for me to be a recluse lol... Dark Vegas is creepy! (pic)






Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


----------



## Fireclaw18

jrgold said:


> What county? I’m in contra costa which was one of the first to be locked down


Santa Clara County. Also one of the first to be locked down.


----------



## ven

pilo7448 said:


> No lockdown here in Vegas yet but all non-essential services have been shut down..(slot machines, restaurants, bars.. Etc) This is a tourist town so it'll be a while before we recover after all this, it's not hard for me to be a recluse lol... Dark Vegas is creepy! (pic)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk




WOW(not in a good way), as days go on, i am sure it will start sinking in more and more for everyone. Its scary whats happening in Italy, considering they have one of the best health services in Europe. Not to mention the northern part is the more affluent compared to the south. 

Ironic the selfish empty heads clearing shelves in crowds of people, fighting over toilet rolls and hand sanitisers, are the ones who are more likely at risk! Avoid crowds, avoid and keep distance. If we can all do this(wont be easy), we will all play are part to help contain and limit the spread. UK is only a few weeks/month behind Italy. 

UK now all schools shutting from today, i dont know(who does) but i will say thats it now till after summer. 3 months at least, then we have 6 week holiday come July. Maybe they can get 6 weeks back then, schools preparing home work for the foreseeable future.

If everyone follows guide lines, it could be sooner. So seeing groups of people carrying on as normal, going bars or in groups is not cool. For them, for us, it just delays and eventually if people can not follow guide lines. It will be enforced by the army...........

Stay safe guys


----------



## trailhunter

Not to be an alarmist but do get your weapons ready for home defense. Tough times may be ahead and we may see an uptick in crime such as home invasions/burglary as the nation goes into recession. This is a great time to practice protocol for safety with your family members to know how to handle tough situations.

It would also be a good idea to get alarms for doors/windows.


Stay safe all and god bless!


----------



## ven

Can never be too safe trailhunter, if it does come to that though, i would hazard a guess(guess) by that time, army would be involved. 

If people (they are not actual people, should not be classed same......)can mug/rob corpses, who knows . As most will be indoors in the coming weeks, there will not be many empty houses.

If it does get to the point of no one out, then army will be out. Fines, prison..........depending maybe shot! I have already days back seen the army moving along the motorway. 

Its happening guys, make no bones about it. 

Stay safe my fellow CPF friends and family, i have a feeling these forums are going to get super busy soon. 

Always end on a positive hey, who knows, some long lost members may find time to pop on and say:wave:


----------



## pilo7448

My brother is a police officer here and they're going 12hrs on and 12 off, they had a briefing and home burglaries and invasions are likely, (im loading my weapons right now.. Lol) along with the national guard being called in, schools have been shut down for a week already..its most likely going to worse before it gets better.. Be safe CPF brothers. 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


----------



## raggie33

Ive been giving away supply’s . But im not a fan of local humans im super social phobic. But i would hate for someone local to go with out


----------



## ven

Its a shame more are not like you raggie, if others put people first.........we would all be taken care of.

Stay safe


----------



## trailhunter

Agreed with raggie. Gave away several boxes of masks and in the process of building a UVC box for sanitizing masks.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## raggie33

Ive been helped in my life im just paying it forward been trying to find a law enforcement officer to see if they needed mask or handcleaner


----------



## RedLED

pilo7448 said:


> My brother is a police officer here and they're going 12hrs on and 12 off, they had a briefing and home burglaries and invasions are likely, (im loading my weapons right now.. Lol) along with the national guard being called in, schools have been shut down for a week already..its most likely going to worse before it gets better.. Be safe CPF brothers.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


Dude,

Where do you live?


----------



## Poppy

Yesterday was the first day that Stop and Shop, a major supermarket chain around here started opening early for seniors only. 6:00 AM - 7:30 AM. Social distancing supposedly in practice. Yesterday I was awake, but it was still dark out, and I decided NOT to go, but to wait a day or two. Good thing... I am told that yesterday, the place was mobbed. Mayhem.

This morning, I arrived at 6:15. The lot was far from full, but there were more cars than I cared to see. There are two sets of doors, one set at each end of the building. I parked 250 feet from the doors on the left. I walked up to the doors, to see a sign, that I expected to say... "Seniors Only". LOL.... nope it said... "Use the other doors!"

On my way to the other doors, a young man was walking in the other direction, I think collecting shopping carts. I smiled and said "Good Morning" 

Son of a gun... it startled him. But he replied with a smile! It seems that people were walking dead... solemnly going about their business. They were however, respectful keeping social distance, and patiently waiting for each other to step away so that they could reach for the butter or something on any particular shelf.

I hope making that young man smile isn't the high-point of my day, but if it is, it was a great way to get started.


----------



## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Mrs Fixer and I ventured out this evening to see what our town was like. We stopped at a grocery store and laughed at all the empty shelves. $1 cans of tuna gone. 500 cans of $1.09 cans though. Seriously. Then the lady with a mask goes by with like 50 frozen pizzas, Lord knows how many rolls of paper towels and stuff like it's the end of the world.
> 
> I wanted frozen oj but they were out so we went to another grocery store where everybody there was as cool as a polar bears toenails, well except for the line waiting on the fresh shrimp. The whole store smelled like the ocean. Had me hankering for some shrimp for dinner. They had plenty of oj too.
> 
> So then we went looking for some shrimp for dinner but many restaraunts were closed or had the max ten folks inside with 100 waiting to get in. We took a drive around the busy shopping district and witnessed a sureal setting. It was like the rapture had occured or something. It was really awesome to see that so many are staying home right now. We ended up at an Arbys drive thru and got fresh food. Parked in an otherwise full parking lot that was empty and watched a beautiful sunset with the windows rolled down in 73 degree weather.
> 
> *No rain, nor storm clouds were around but there was a rainbow over the nearby Food Lion. It was like God was telling everybody "chill, I got this"*.


Great story Mr. Fixer!
And your finishing line... gave me chills! :thumbsup:

I love rainbows... always look for them


----------



## bykfixer




----------



## wacbzz

Poppy said:


> And your finishing line... gave me chills! :thumbsup:



It also gave me the chills, but more than likely, not for the same reason. 

The UG really is a great place.


----------



## jabe1

Got a text from my daughter in Nashville this morning. She’s a nurse at a mental health facility. She works triage. She had her first case today where someone came in wearing a mask. The person was suspected covid-19 positive.
i asked her if she was wearing her full PPE; they have only provided gloves, and 2 N95 masks. She says everything right now stays under lock and key because people were stealing it, you are required to sign out masks!
A friend of hers works the neonatal icu at Akron children’s hospital, and they get one mask each for the day.
I’m a contractor and always have a small stock of N95 masks. I have already offered most of them to our local EMTs, who took my number for the future; now, I’m preparing a box of some to ship to Nashville.
We are mostly unprepared for this, our government included.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

California now has a stay at home order issued. All non essential services are shut down. While the governor confined 40 million law abiding citizens to be prisoners in their own homes, he gave a lot of "nonviolent" criminals early release. Expect burglaries and muggings to skyrocket. This year, they reduced sentences for a lot of crimes. Criminals will be caught and then released. Time to take stock of guns and ammo and practice situational awareness when you're out and about. Stay safe.


----------



## nbp

Tread lightly on the guns/protection/cops shooting people who go outside discussion please. Let’s keep the thread open.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Netflix and YouTube are lowering video quality and slowing speed in Europe to prevent the internet from breaking. Because of everyone being locked down in their homes due to the corona virus, everyone is watching TV at home and it's overloading the system. Things will likely be okay as long as they have a distraction, but what would happen if the internet stops working?


----------



## idleprocess

jabe1 said:


> I’m a contractor and always have a small stock of N95 masks. I have already offered most of them to our local EMTs, who took my number for the future; now, I’m preparing a box of some to ship to Nashville.
> We are mostly unprepared for this, our government included.



Dallas Makerspace had >5000 N95 masks _(donated to the organization some time back)_ that we have donated to the local fire department whom will distribute them to first responders and medical personnel as needed; since we've shut down we certainly have no immediate need for them.


----------



## harro

The general attitude in Aus is now very much turning into ensuring yourself and others around you are ok. No point worrying about problems you have no control over, rather, making sure those around you and neighbours are ok. That initial surge of self centered panic is subsiding. ' Regardless of how badly off I am, there is ALWAYS someone in a leakier boat than me!! ' Raids out of the state capital by certain aspects of our society are being nipped in the bud. One such 'raid' yesterday, in a town a couple of Kms west of here, resulted in the minibus ( 22 people ) and its occupants told to go back to the capital, and word as such hit social media in all forms near instantly!! Aus is lucky in that 85%+ of all grocery items are onshore, and they are making it to the shelves, even though the panic still remains more so in the capitals. The supermarkets are but one source of produce. Our ' corner shop ' shopping strips have amongst others, butchers, bakers, fresh fruit/vege merchants and so on, and are well stocked. We are supporting local people, they are keeping up with local demand. Customers are buying from them what they need for a couple of days, not three months worth of produce in one hit. Look after YOURSELF, FAMILY and FRIENDS/NEIGHBOURS. Let those charged with looking after the bigger picture, do so. They might not do it perfectly, but, they also, are trying to do an unprecedented job in difficult times. If we work together, we will come out the other side of this thing. The media here, are hell bent on sensationalizing this event, on turning it into something far worse than it has to be, on doing whatever they have to do to make it profit themselves in the biggest possible way. Its up to us to be aware of that, to cut through the bulldust, and sort fact from sensation. Make no mistake, a lot (not all ) of what they tell us, is sensation. Hold the media in your part of our globe, to account. Listen to the facts, ignore the interwoven bulldust!! Keep that level head!!

:wave:


----------



## bykfixer

Good vibes from that post harro. In the states there are lots of stories about people working together. Even folks who argue over politics are saying the same chorus. Not all are, but many who once saw the one side as the enemy is now speaking for calm too. And nearly everybody is telling the press to stop the nonsense. 

Once it's over we'll resume shouting at each other, but for now folks are hunkered into their little corners while using common sense approaches in hopes this thing will pass sooner than later. We all have one thing in common right now and that is the notion "corona virus sucks"


----------



## harro

bykfixer said:


> Good vibes from that post harro. In the states there are lots of stories about people working together. Even folks who argue over politics are saying the same chorus. Not all are, but many who once saw the one side as the enemy is now speaking for calm too. And nearly everybody is telling the press to stop the nonsense.
> 
> Once it's over we'll resume shouting at each other, but for now folks are hunkered into their little corners while using common sense approaches in hopes this thing will pass sooner than later. We all have one thing in common right now and that is the notion "corona virus sucks"




:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## StarHalo

Hooked on Fenix said:


> California now has a stay at home order issued. All non essential services are shut down. While the governor confined 40 million law abiding citizens to be prisoners in their own homes, he gave a lot of "nonviolent" criminals early release. Expect burglaries and muggings to skyrocket.



No. Traffic this morning was like a Saturday, work was like a weekday, got our regularly scheduled delivery of toilet paper and baby wipes a day early. Got dinner at the Mexican place's drive-thru, most everything is open. On my drive home, a photographer and male model were parked on the side of the road next to a cow farm, getting pics of the buff dude in glistening sunlight. Can't say I saw any muggings.



harro said:


> Let those charged with looking after the bigger picture, do so.



No. That's not how democracy works; your representative is your employee, let them know what needs to be done to avoid replacement.



bykfixer said:


> And nearly everybody is telling the press to stop the nonsense.



No. Is this you shopping at HEB?


----------



## RedLED

The local Ganett paper here has on their on-line site pictures of TP and bottled water. Why? I Don't know?


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> The local Ganett paper here has on their on-line site pictures of TP and bottled water. Why? I Don't know?



Because that's where we're at; in 2019 you wanted people to see you rockin' AirPods, in 2020 you want them to see you rockin' toilet paper..

And speaking of levity, here's the original as-seen-on-TV Survivorman:


----------



## bykfixer

Where I live at bottled water is plentiful again. Folks were hoarding the $1.48 gallons and all gallons. The only thing not restocked is distilled water. I speculate that is being reserved for medical facilities (oxygen systems). There were always 6 packs of Fiji water and the like. Again I speculate that folks with $100 to spend on a weeks groceries were grabbing two weeks worth so every penny mattered. And I suppose that is why the Food Lion had all the hoarders and the Publix, which is aimed at a more discriminating client was business as usual lately. Sams Club and Costco are potential war zones but so far so good in that regard. 

The thing I find in short supply food-wise is turkey meats. Ground, or whole. It shows me that at least in my area turkey products are more popular than beef. 

Traffic-wise the morning commute is a bit less hassle but still fairly crowded and folks out there still drive way faster than the speed limits. What I have noticed is there are a lot more trucks. Not really the kind carrying loads to grocery stores but flat beds carrying steel, or turbines, or concrete beams. It appears that many loads that would normally run at night are now running in the daytime. My neighbor runs loads of C02 to restaraunt suppliers and his schedule has not dropped off. 

One thing I have noticed in regards to cargo is less trains at night. I live near a railroad and have my whole life, so the din of trains tends to be like white noise in our house. Last night there was not the usual din of cargo trains going past. On my way home from work, at 4:15 I sit at a crossing everyday waiting on a train to pass. This week I whizzed past that crossing each afternoon. So that is a bit strange since most of the trains are tank car after tank car of things that wipe out a town if one crashes. Molten this or sulphuric that. 

Roadway construction is carrying on like normal as the workers try to practice that whole socialized distance thing. See, it's loud at times and not many know sign language or carry around dry erase boards. So there are times you just have to enter each others 3 foot circle. My boss gave us a chance to stay home and I told her "if I worked in New York city I'd take you up on that". In a month the numbers may justify staying home but most never get colds or flu because of working outdoors all day combined with the fact that cases are not growing in our area. Most folks I work with live in places with 0 cases right now. The one group of folks who commuted in town are all at home self quarentined since 1 person had a relative with it. Most people I work with are from small towns or flat out farm land. That's the jobs available to them and many are second or third generation road builders. They avoid big cities, airplanes, trains and crowded places. The only time they mingle in crowded places is at all you can eat joints on Saturday night and they're all closed right now. If their towns gets hit with a case it probably won't spread like it does in places like New York city or Miami Fla. 

Folks are just hunkered down and avoiding people they do not know beyond a smile and a wave from a safe distance. While in line at a gas station yesterday there were like 4 customers who stood about 25 feet apart. It was funny to watch as each one pretended to be looking at products they'd never buy instead of coming right out and admitting "hey buddy, I don't know you so just keep your distance". A thought of doing a fake sneeze crossed my mind but I chose not to. 

Another thing I noticed is that everytime the thought of not touching my face goes through my brain, my nose itches shortly after. Every single time. I wonder if I touch my ear if it can walk around to my nose. Man I sure hope not. 

Now back to funny virus memes and you tube fun……


----------



## Poppy

There's no more corona around here.

I read that it will stay on Stainless Steel for 3 days.
They were wrong... it lasted less than an hour!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

There's no Corona at our house either. 

However, a few of his cousins stopped by for a drink.


----------



## Dave D

*Pandemics For Dummies!*

If you are still unsure as to why Countries are being locked down because of COVID19 then please take a few minutes to watch the below video, it explains the reasons in simple terms that even i can understand! :twothumbs


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Can't say I saw any muggings.



I sincerely hope this continues. But as the pandemic runs its course, conditions will worsen and we're nowhere near the worst of it in SoCal. 

Time will tell. If you were old enough to be affected by the '92 LA Riots you know what I mean...


----------



## StarHalo

Dave D said:


> *Pandemics For Dummies!*



See post #93; those who didn't want to get it at the start of the month don't get it now..



SCEMan said:


> If you were old enough to be affected by the '92 LA Riots you know what I mean...



But more recently, it's the same place that organizes free yoga classes during fires. It's not the wealthy places you have to worry about..



bykfixer said:


> Roadway construction is carrying on like normal as the workers try to practice that whole socialized distance thing.



Why stand in line at the time clock, when you can stand in boxes (management spent all day taping boxes all over our warehouse, the break room tables, the areas around desks, etc.)


----------



## P_A_S_1

^^ Good video Dave D.


----------



## Poppy

Great video Dave !
Thanks for sharing.
Poppy


----------



## StarHalo

Steps you can take WAY beyond hand washing:


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> But more recently, it's the same place that organizes free yoga classes during fires. It's not the wealthy places you have to worry about..



Not sure how this applies to the lessons learned from the '92 LA Riots, but we experienced increased crime throughout the San Gabriel Valley. Here's hoping it doesn't come to that. But any decent BCP will have steps to mitigate this risk.


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks for that video Dave. 
The tale of two cities was my favorite portion. I mean, I liked the whole thing, but did appreciate the two cities part and would like to see that story (or similar) be told more often. Especially to those who are going stir crazy right now.

Actually Star, my cubicle is disguised as a 310hp Ford F-150 super cab 4x4 with a company provided maintenance card and fuel card. 10k towing capacity and some cool features from the Raptor truck. They sent me an email with an options sheet and I checked what I thought would help me do the job best. But that aint the best part. I get to watch giant Tonka Toys build stuff like cranes, big ole pavement eaters or earth diggers. And the best part is I get to tell 300 pound gorilla sized workers "I don't know how to do your job but my book says you're doing it wrong". I don't though. I play the role of teacher as much as inspector. I get sent to tough assignments to be part of the solution after problems arise. Now wearing a plastic hat on my head and plastic bag over my body in summer is a drag at times, sure. Yet there are about 100 days a year when office dwellers whine they are stuck indoors that I smell like sunscreen when I have to visit them. So the days they are whining that 74 is too cold indoors I'm walking around looking like Randy from Christmas story remembering how hot it is going to be in 6 months. 

And right now we are all laughing and joking about this whole pandemic thing while taking it as serious as a heart attack. Each day we thank the Lord above that nobody we know has been affected by it (so far).


----------



## wacbzz

*sigh*


----------



## PhotonWrangler

I used an ATM yesterday. Before I touched it with my fingers I thoroughly wiped the screen, keyboard and card slot with a clorox bleach wipe.


----------



## bykfixer

Bravo PW.


----------



## knucklegary

I keep a bottle of hand sanitizer in vehicle and do the same routine at gas stations. Pump handles, grocery store basket handles, as well ATMs gotta be a breeding grounds for all kinds of bacteria


----------



## knucklegary

Here in NorCal we're on day 3 of a two week lock-down. Too early to tell, but so far I am not hearing of any home robberies, or looting incidents. However, local National Guard has been called to duty on stand -by status in case all hell breaks loose in the cities. We got til Apr 3rd, so anything could happen yet, especially down in lalaland SoCal

This is a good wake up call for many unprepared folks

Days like this I am glad to be located a safe distance from any chaos in big cities


----------



## bigburly912

Apparently home test kits will be available Monday.


----------



## knucklegary

Where are home test kits being available from?


----------



## P_A_S_1

At the least I hope this encourages people to be more hygienically minded and maintain better practices for the long term. I guess we'll see once this is over how long that lasts. Most of what everyone is doing now should have been common practice. Here the MTA has been sanitizing all high touch/common areas every 72 hours, something they should have been doing anyway with a daily ridership of millions.


----------



## RedLED

SCEMan said:


> Not sure how this applies to the lessons learned from the '92 LA Riots, but we experienced increased crime throughout the San Gabriel Valley. Here's hoping it doesn't come to that. But any decent BCP will have steps to mitigate this risk.


I covered the 92 LA riots, and it was just crazy. There were some nice parts of town that got hit, plus they burned Samy's Camera on Melrose. Samy's was in a very nice part of town. It was exciting though, I had three Nikon F4 cameras and two hundred rolls of both chromes and Color Neg., and I think the first Motorola flip phone, the putty colored ones.


----------



## RedLED

Question on the N95 masks: I have some 3M N95 shop type masks in my studio machine shop, and my question is can you reuse them or are they a one use item.

Thanks,

RL


----------



## BVH

I somehow got onto wearing one Costco brand disposable glove on my right hand and only using that hand to do all operations when filling up probably a dozen years ago and it has been 90% successful in stopping that December Cold I would invariably get. I keep about 50 gloves in the back seat, left door cubby and use each one only once.


----------



## RedLED

trailhunter said:


> Agreed with raggie. Gave away several boxes of masks and in the process of building a UVC box for sanitizing masks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


What is a UVC box, Chief?


----------



## trailhunter

RedLED said:


> What is a UVC box, Chief?


A styrofoam box with 4x UV-c bulbs to disinfect masks that my friends doctor wife will be using

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## knucklegary

^^ RL, I would toss the 3m after use.. Do you have the plain style or type with bells & whistles. Those better masks seals tight around face and has air valve. I think it's debatable how effective the basic dust mask is preventing virus contact.. Gloves are most important during a store visit..


----------



## trailhunter

knucklegary said:


> ^^ RL, I would toss the 3m after use.. Do you have the plain style or type with bells & whistles. Those better masks seals tight around face and has air valve. I think it's debatable how effective the basic dust mask is preventing virus contact.. Gloves are most important during a store visit..


Doctors are being forced to reuse masks. She only has about 10 n95 masks so to reuse, she will be placing used ones in the box to disinfect

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## bykfixer

So it was said that UV light kills the virus. I wonder what (I don't know what to call the tint) tint they mean, how much intensity is needed and if us flashaholics could save the world by reccomending what headlamp(s) would do the trick. 

It has also been said that N95 masks are best for patients to keep them from spreading this thing once in a hospital. My nephew used to paint cars and his had replaceable filters.


----------



## knucklegary

Byk, I do believe you're onto something.. UV headlamps could just save mankind!


----------



## knucklegary

Trailhunter, I did not know RL is a Dr.. By all means disinfect and reuse until restock arrives. 
The styro cooler box with overdose of UV lights should be an easy arrangement for hospital maintenance dept personnel


----------



## RedLED

knucklegary said:


> Trailhunter, I did not know RL is a Dr.. By all means disinfect and reuse until restock arrives.
> The styro cooler box with overdose of UV lights should be an easy arrangement for hospital maintenance dept personnel


No, RL is not a Dr., well close but no...


----------



## PhotonWrangler

UVC germicidal lamps put out a wavelength of 254nm, deep into the ultraviolet spectrum. This is a much shorter wavelength than your average "blacklight" lamp, which is usually 365-400nm. UVC kills germs by breaking down their membrane walls. It's generally harmful to living tissue for this reason so you can't walk around wearing a UVC headlamp without risking eye/skin damage to others. They used to use UVC bulbs in commercial hand dryers a long time ago but these were discontinued for safety reasons.

Having said that, it's great for killing viruses at close range _in an enclosed container_. There is a minimum power density at a minimum duration required to do the job, and I don't have that number in my head. UVC is used in air cleaners, water sanitizers and even some toothbrush disinfecting appliances. And there are large commercial UVC lamps that are used in hospitals to disinfect entire rooms.

Most UVC germicidal lamps are fluorescent or CFL types. There are some shortwave UV LEDs on the market now, but I don't know if they can reach the same UVC power densities as traditional mercury based lamps.


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## pilo7448

I used to do Air Conditioning and we had uv light boxes we would install as a part of an air scrubber system.. Hepa filters and so on, they work very well at killing most bacteria but of corse you dont want to expose yourself to direct contact for too long. 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## knucklegary

^^ Dang.. there goes saving the world! 

Keeping my fingers crossed quinine water works


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## RedLED

knucklegary said:


> ^^ RL, I would toss the 3m after use.. Do you have the plain style or type with bells & whistles. Those better masks seals tight around face and has air valve. I think it's debatable how effective the basic dust mask is preventing virus contact.. Gloves are most important during a store visit..


Mine are just the basic dust masks.

Thanks for your help answering my question.


----------



## ven

RedLED said:


> Question on the N95 masks: I have some 3M N95 shop type masks in my studio machine shop, and my question is can you reuse them or are they a one use item.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> RL



Just be careful of masks for 2 reasons.
1st, i have and do wear a mask in work at times. We are forever moving/adjusting them......they are uncomfortable. Every time we do, our hands are touching our face, this is how we get contaminated 
2nd- It also gives a false sense of security, they are not enough to stop the tiny virus and within 30 mins of wearing, the moisture can hold the virus. The ones wearing masks, should be the ones with the virus, not without. 
To be effective, change regular and dont touch face/mouth/nose/eyes. Better still, just keep your distance. Wash hands for a good 20 seconds if you have touched door handles, banisters etc outside(even inside). If you smoke or put lip stick on(obv not you), wash hands thoroughly before anything to do with your face. Its getting into that habit. Did i say wash hands! Its not air born , its by contact, usually off contaminated surfaces. But even if you touch a certain contaminated area, just do not touch face(or light and smoke a cig). Hand sanitiser or person, or wash hands at home is the best protection so far. If you dont need to go out, just dont. No fun, but its more fun than being on a ventilator by ourselves. Watch/catch up on netxflix, surf, hobbies, heck frequent CPF .........but be safe. This will pass, sooner if we all work together.

Stay safe brother.


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## bykfixer

The death clock shows Corona is winning. Now keep in mind that there are lots more people being tested than just one week ago so the jump in numbers seems shocking. 
But check this out: new cases
3/16; 983
3/17; 1748
3/18; 2848
3/19; 4530 (yikes)
3/20; 5594 (it's the end of the world, stock up now)
3/21: 4824
3/22; 2699 (CNN does not want you to know this)

This time next week the recovery numbers will spike too because it takes at least two weeks for the virus to be completely gone. You might be completely well on day 8 but it is still in you show you test positive up to 3 weeks. By tax day in the US we will have a much more accurate picture. 

Stay calm and keep on washing those hands folks.


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## kj2

I wonder when even stricter rules will apply over here. Yesterday, there were many people outside, even on the beach. Less people on the streets today.
Even at the grocery store it was calm, although the shelves weren't that full.


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## trailhunter

All, please remember when you are driving, windows up and set AC to recirculate, not to draw air from inside. You don't know if the person in front of you is sick or could be going to the hospital and they are coughing outside their window. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Poppy

I wish we had more testing so that it could be determined where we are in the graph that Dave linked to in his post.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...-Coronavirus&p=5374777&viewfull=1#post5374777


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## bykfixer

Mrs Fixer and I ventured out to the grocery store this morning, more out of curiosity than anything. You had your people frantically scrubbing the cart handles (it lives for up to 3 days on plastic so yeah, good idea) while others were generally laid back and kept their distance from each other. Stockers were adding stock galore. At the meat counter there was a line of folks patiently waiting on the butcher to bring out stuff. Most of the shelves were ok with gaps here and there. Overall the atmosphere was pretty chill and hoarders were practically non existent. Evidently chickens can't lay eggs fast enough to keep up but there were a few cartons available. All of the fake eggs in a bottle were still gone. There was plenty of milk and bread too. 

I asked a stocker if they are even getting toilet paper and she said they have a waiting list. That when a load arrives they call the folks on the list and meet at the rear of the store (like something out of a mob movie). She said they do not tell anyone under 65 about the list, which I thought was pretty cool. (I went to high school and used to party with the person who told me so mums the word in my community.) When we were leaving at about 10:30 the folks entering were walking faster as if they had overslept and were about to miss out on 2 for 1 lottery tickets. 

Still no distilled water. That person I spoke with said that Food Lion sending that to area hospitals. Cool. We added a few things on sale that we normally eat anyway and found something yummy for dinner at home tonight. The Mrs and I discussed how nice it is to see people acting so calm and chuckled that when this thing is over the grocery store is going to look like an abandoned mining town for a while as everybody is so well stocked up. 

We learned that Red Baron pizzas sell out nearly as fast as toilet paper in this event. That spagetti noodles and sauce aren't far behind. Hot sausage does not sell as quickly as mild. When toilet paper gets scarce that paper towels sell before facial tissue. That charcoal is easy to find. That sliced lunch meats don't sell as fast as frozen brocolli. And that for some reason paper plates are in big demand. I don't get that part.

And the more I try not to touch my face, the more places on it itch. Aauuuughhhh!!


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## P_A_S_1

bykfixer said:


> But check this out: new cases
> 3/16; 983
> 3/17; 1748
> 3/18; 2848
> 3/19; 4530 (yikes)
> 3/20; 5594 (it's the end of the world, stock up now)
> 3/21: 4824
> 3/22; 2699 (CNN does not want you to know this)




What's the source?


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## trailhunter

I went to a publix market and was 2nd in line to be checked out at the register. The cashier was conversation with the customer before me about how her husband is at home with a sudden onset of pneumonia. I immediately got tunnel vision and the thought of her possibility of her being infected. 

Keep in mind that out of sight, out of mind. Anyone could come across this without you even knowing. Masks if you can and be cautious about disinfecting the goods you bring from markets.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## bigburly912

More then likely the CDC or department of health. You can get actual real numbers from either.


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## P_A_S_1

That's what I check, that's why I'm asking.


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Mrs Fixer and I ventured out to the grocery store this morning, more out of curiosity than anything.


I almost went out this morning for the same reason, but thought it better to stay isolated. 
Last night I was planning dinner and wanted to use the chicken I bought a few days ago. Decided on coconut chicken 
Oh no... most of the recipes called for coconut milk: I don't have any!

So off to the store I go. I was a little surprised to see that people moved on to hording laundry detergent. There was still an ample amount of fresh fruits and vegetables, not many potatoes left, virtually no pasta, and for the most part, fresh meats were gone. There was still some pork, and fresh salmon, and frozen shrimp. 

Earlier in the day my daughter bought two 3 lb. packages of chopped meat. That's great so that the grand-kids will be good for lunches for the next 9 days. By then production and distribution should be able to catch up. 

I bought a can of coconut milk, a can of pineapple chunks, and a quart of parmalat whole milk. It will be my emergency coffee milk, good until 2021. :thumbsup:

For dinner I didn't use the coconut milk recipe, but instead made lime juice marinaded, honey dipped, coconut chicken, fried in coconut oil, with coconut fried pineapple. This staying at home and having time to cook has been splendid!



> And the more I try not to touch my face, the more places on it itch. Aauuuughhhh!!


LOL this reminded me, two weeks ago, I had cataract surgery on my left eye. While in the reclining chair/bed, just before they tightened the straps to immobilize me, I was able to slide my hand out from under the straps to scratch my nose. At that thought I giggled, because I thought of the scene in "Night at the Museum: The Smithonian Institute" Where the bust of Teddy Roosevelt begs to have his nose scratched.


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## nbp

bykfixer said:


> And the more I try not to touch my face, the more places on it itch. Aauuuughhhh!!



You’re not alone! Haha. Join us in the handkerchief thread - we’re all scratching our faces with hankies. Haha

Edit: Oops. Forgot you already have been there.


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## SCEMan

PhotonWrangler said:


> I used an ATM yesterday. Before I touched it with my fingers I thoroughly wiped the screen, keyboard and card slot with a clorox bleach wipe.



Well done. I keep disposable gloves in our cars for gas pump, ATM, etc. use.


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## SCEMan

RedLED said:


> I covered the 92 LA riots, and it was just crazy. There were some nice parts of town that got hit, plus they burned Samy's Camera on Melrose. Samy's was in a very nice part of town. It was exciting though, I had three Nikon F4 cameras and two hundred rolls of both chromes and Color Neg., and I think the first Motorola flip phone, the putty colored ones.



Even 30 miles from LA, we had local stores burglarized and roaming thugs. We had to put several of my staff in local hotels as it wasn't safe to return home. 

And Props. 47, 57, and AB109 have only made us more vulnerable. But hopefully with so residents forced to shelter in place, criminals will be more wary.


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## RedLED

trailhunter said:


> I went to a publix market and was 2nd in line to be checked out at the register. The cashier was conversation with the customer before me about how her husband is at home with a sudden onset of pneumonia. I immediately got tunnel vision and the thought of her possibility of her being infected.
> 
> Keep in mind that out of sight, out of mind. Anyone could come across this without you even knowing. Masks if you can and be cautious about disinfecting the goods you bring from markets.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Trail,

What do do you mean disinfecting the goods, what about produce?

Went to The stores yesterday, and brought home a bunch of prime steaks. I'll have a couple then freeze the rest. May as well eat good at home. In fact this will be the most I have eaten at home in a long time as I am always traveling somewhere plus we like to eat out quite a bit anyway.


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## trailhunter

RedLED said:


> Trail,
> 
> What do do you mean disinfecting the goods, what about produce?
> 
> Went to The stores yesterday, and brought home a bunch of prime steaks. I'll have a couple then freeze the rest. May as well eat good at home. In fact this will be the most I have eaten at home in a long time as I am always traveling somewhere plus we like to eat out quite a bit anyway.


Wash produce thuroughly with water, it's out in the open and people can cough over it.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## P_A_S_1

Was in a store a week ago when the cashier got a break and watched him walk over to the produce section and use the spray hose to wash off his hands. He did it right over all the produce. It was unbelievable.


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## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> By then production and distribution should be able to catch up.



Your local healthy hippie store will have most everything except paper goods in stock, it's only the places that everyone goes that are selling out. 



Poppy said:


> a quart of parmalat whole milk. It will be my emergency coffee milk, good until 2021. :thumbsup:



The online places carry dehydrated/powdered milk, which is ideal for emergency use since it doesn't require cool storage and is the real deal once you add it to water or coffee.



P_A_S_1 said:


> What's the source?



They don't want you to know.


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## P_A_S_1

Oh boy..


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## bykfixer

P_A_S_1 said:


> What's the source?



The cdc at about 9 this morning.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
If you scroll down the page a ways you see the daily numbers beginning March 16th. 
My state is going the wrong direction numbers-wise. In general the rising numbers are in contained areas so we surmise it's from families all stuck together or perhaps a multi family dwelling like an apartment building or nursing facility but details are sketchy due to privacy laws. I definitely respect that. 

I read about how many countries dealt with it or still are and what worked/works best. The 6 foot rule, don't touch your face and disinfecting surfaces before touching has shown that those things work. In countries like South Korea that was practically all they did along with quarentine sick folks and the virus just simply died off as it ran out of new hosts. If you believe the WHO that is what worked in the origin of COVID-19 as well. 

Think of it like this: a person in Oklahoma who works at a Wendys gets it. Quarentine that person and others they work with. You see a rise of one. Now figure that person lives in a home with 4 people. A few days later the number goes up 3, maybe 4. Now also presume the others that person worked with was 8. Figure 3 of them got it. Also figure a house of 4 who all get it. You see 12 more cases. Quarentine those people for two weeks. In two weeks the total of 16 people no longer add to the number of new cases. Now places like Montanna, Idaho, PA and Oregon that never gets to be over whelming to the hospitals. 

But you take large cities like New York, LA, or Seattle where the system was already strained by influenza, gun shot victims or folks living in less than good conditions……those areas also have a large population living on top of each other. Areas ripe for huge outbreaks. So the number in a 2 week period is unlike the case in Oklahoma. It's rises in the same way but the numbers are much larger. The already strained system is suddenly over whelmed. But the rate of fall will also have a similar curve as time passes. 

One thing that will reduce the outbreak is warm weather. And even though the 6 foot rule still applies the people going outdoors will help. Less couped up conditions means people are happier. Getting excersize (outdoors) will boost immune systems so those infected will have less severe symptoms. Being out in the sun boosts Vitamin D, which is also shown to help reduce serious symptoms. South Korea was a test case for that, which is why they had let things kind of run their course without the draconian crackdowns like China did. And it's why California's governor has reccomended people walk their dogs, take bike rides and go surfing. 

I really feel for first responders in New York right now and pray they see things get better soon. This thing will pass and we can go back to normal real soon. Just keep in mind there's an 80-85% chance you won't get real sick if you do get it. Keep watching the news but also keep digging for facts.


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## Poppy

regarding disinfecting food and stuff brought in from the store.

Considering that the virus may live on cardboard for 24 hours, on Friday I bought a case of Miller High Life, and left it in the mud-room for 24 hours before bringing it downstairs into my basement. I considered leaving it in the trunk of my car overnight but didn't want to let it suffer the temperature changes.

Considering that cooking food (chicken to 165 F) will kill pathogens, I wondered how high a temp is necessary to kill this virus. I couldn't find info for this virus in particular, but the SARS corona virus, which I believe is more stable would be killed @ 56 C (132 F) https://www.hindawi.com/journals/av/2011/734690/

I think steak medium rare is 145 F. Certainly the outside of the steak is hotter than the inside.


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## P_A_S_1

Worldmeters. Did a quick search on them. Ok, thxs


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## jabe1

Here is some recent info on Coronavirus survivability on surfaces and how long it can stay in your system, possibly contagious.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-12/coronavirus-can-live-in-patients-for-five-weeks-after-contagion


https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/03/20/sars-cov-2-survive-on-surfaces/


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## nbp

StarHalo said:


> They don't want you to know.



Indeed.. all kinds of unsupported misinformation floating around....




StarHalo said:


> - The French are finding that anti-inflammatory painkillers (ibuprofen, aspirin, naproxen, cortisone) can aggravate COVID-19 infection and can create complications; if you believe you or a loved one could possibly have Coronavirus, stick to acetaminophen/Tylenol or paracetamol for fever reduction.


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## RedLED

Let's hear some of the things you are doing with this downtime? For myself, I have worked at something with my company everyday for over 30 years. 

Some of the things we are doing is getting all the things we like to eat, things we have not had in a very longtime but still love. Also, we will be mixing cocktails every night, and I have moved the start time back to 1700Hrs. from my standard 1800 Hrs.

Like myself, I am sure everybody here has had busy schedules with many things to do daily, and now all stop. 

So, other than the testing lights at night, and charging batteries what are your COVID-19 pass times?

What should make this much more interesting is that the usual selection of sports, and the vast choices in entertainment are gone.

Best wishes,

RedLED and family


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## Poppy

RedLED said:


> Let's hear some of the things you are doing with this downtime? For myself, I have worked at something with my company everyday for over 30 years.
> 
> Some of the things we are doing is getting all the *things we like to eat,* things we have not had in a very longtime but still love.


LOL... I just finished a bowl of pistachio pudding yum yum 

I just told my daughter that I was enjoying listening to her kids laughing and fooling around.
They each have a couch in the living room and are watching and participating with a "how to" Disney animation class. 

Earlier today, I watched a Robin enjoying my crab-grass seed scattered generously throughout my lawn


----------



## bykfixer

Poppy, a few days ago I read about the structure of this COVID-19 thing to see if lowering my home temperature or running a humidifier would do any good. The SARS outter "fat" layer was thinner than this one. Think soap bubbles and think temp and humidity as a stick pin. A thicker, denser soap bubble would take a sharper instrument to pop it. 

The covid-19 can survive longer than the SARS in similar situations. I did not find the limits of high, of low temperatures or humidity. Just that it survives better at 65 degrees (F) and at 35% humidity. It's probably too soon to know the outter limits of this thing. At 65 degrees the sars died quickly where the life of a covid-19 was not affected. Humidity up to 35% was same. The theory was that is why it spread so much more effectively in China. Evidently it doesn't like heat beyond human body temperatures. 

It seems it lasts on surfaces up to 3 days. Stick that beer in the fridge and crack it open Wednesday. If you absolutely have to have one before spray the carton with a solution of clorox in water, and wait 15 minutes.

You ask what some do during the down time Red, as for me I read a lot. I geek out on instruction manuals, how to articles and other instructive publications. Right now my favorite subject is this COVID-19 thing. When I graduated high school with good grades I could read but not comprehend. They taught me crap I could memorize but not understand other than math. I got math. I got married right out of high school and my mom gave me a subscription of Readers Digest for Christmas that year. I learned how to read from there. Soon after I subscribed to other magazines like cars, stereos, or building related. The instructional parts were my favorite, but I also liked facts and statistics. It just went from there. For years I geeked out on road building specifications. My buddies would ask if I had seen this movie or that tv show. My answer was generally no because I was reading how to build an automatic transmission rewire my car.


----------



## P_A_S_1

RedLED said:


> Let's hear some of the things you are doing with this downtime? .......
> 
> So, other than the testing lights at night, and charging batteries what are your COVID-19 pass times? .......



Making bread. Lots of bread.


----------



## bigburly912

P_A_S_1 said:


> Making bread. Lots of bread.



Man I used to love bread and pastas. Probably why after I blew up my elbow and quit working out I went from 220-290 in a hurry haha. What kind of breads are you making? I can enjoy them without eating them. : D


----------



## scout24

Red- We've spent the winter here babysitting 3-4 days a week so Daughter can go to nursing school. Online only as of two weeks ago. Amongst that, we've been taking Mrs. Scout's brother back and forth to appointments a couple days a week, he's dealing with stage 4 lung cancer. Chemo, radiation, etc etc etc. I've been maintaining some yard equipment, building garden fences, turning beds and getting ready to plant here under cold frames soon. And, need to build a chicken tractor for our six new Rhode Island Red chicks. If there's zombies over the summer, we should at least have eggs... That, and inventories of things we may need. Hang in there, everyone.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Tuscan loafs with basil and oregano. Yes, bread and pasta...nothing better. Could eat it every day!


----------



## StarHalo

nbp said:


> Indeed.. all kinds of unsupported misinformation floating around....



The French Health Minister tweeted out the information about NSAIDs on Saturday based on a Lancet article that theorizes that ibuprofen, et al. increases expression of the enzyme that COVID-19 uses to bind itself to cells, creating improved conditions for it to multiply. The backlash against this info is because it is only a hypothesis based on scientific data, not because it has been conclusively disproven or even tested. What has been conclusively proven is NSAIDs' ability to worsen kidney complications in those already suffering other medical issues, which would be a valid concern for critical COVID-19 patients. 

That's good of you to have called me out on an issue that needs clarification and isn't quite black or white as of yet; being that the median age of this website is well into the danger zone for those vulnerable to this disease, it would be very risky to allow users to post misinformation or mislead participants into a false sense of security when the threat is very real and growing significantly larger every day. Your enforcement could be a break in the chain of events that could lead a CPFer from not taking this seriously and ending up in the hospital.


----------



## RedLED

Scout,

I'm a city boy, what is a chicken tractor?


----------



## nbp

The WHO stated there is no solid evidence to back up that claim. 

My point is that if OTHERS have to check their facts before making claims, so you do StarHalo. 

And frankly, I doubt very many people are making their healthcare decisions based on posts by strangers on a flashlight forum anyways.


----------



## bigburly912

Where I’m from it’s a coop with wheels so you can move it as needed. I’m sure scout is talking about the same thing


----------



## ven

RedLED said:


> Let's hear some of the things you are doing with this downtime?
> Best wishes,
> 
> RedLED and family



Seriously, spending money. I am already a nightmare anyway, but sat around in between walks and house DIY stuff.............

I am just spending money, cant even list what i have bought in the last week. Not a watch yet though lol. Done the garden, cleaned and valeted car for possible sale. Already part organised the delivery of a new car. Bought trainers, tools, DIY stuff. Bought new tv, fitted in place of old, fitted old into Madisons room. Bought a load of clothes for Madison, those came today. Dropped food supplies across the road for an elderly neighbour (this will be a daily thing).
Organising home martial arts for Callum. 

I said " Nala, what do you think of this COVID-19, what if doggy food and butchers bones are not easy to get?"

She replied........


----------



## ven

Lets look at the positives, which ever way we look at this right now. Quality family time, time spent that usually we are up and out the door before others wake. Enjoy the times together, guilt free!!!


----------



## StarHalo

nbp said:


> The WHO stated there is no solid evidence to back up that claim.



On March 18th, the WHO recommended against using NSAIDs. They changed their position the next day. This is again about a hypothesis based on data already gathered, not something that has been actively disproven or tested; not a black or white issue but one left to the discretion of your sense of safety - you can give someone with COVID-19 Motrin, but we're not entirely sure what the effect of that is yet. Your call.



nbp said:


> My point is that if OTHERS have to check their facts before making claims, so you do StarHalo.
> 
> And frankly, I doubt very many people are making their healthcare decisions based on posts by strangers on a flashlight forum anyways.



So we need to remain factually sound, but this isn't something we should take seriously? Which is it? If everyone sees a moderator coming down hard on one user for an obscure point of pharmacology, while others in the background repeatedly direct senior citizen readers to the conclusion that everything's fine when the data clearly shows the polar opposite, that would be very capricious indeed..


----------



## nbp

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...ibuprofen-for-covid-19-leaves-experts-baffled

I guess we can just let folks read the statements of the WHO for themselves and make their own minds up. Maybe that is better, hey? 

And no, the reason I said people aren’t getting their critical healthcare info here is because you made the absurd claim that by asking you to check your facts I was endangering the lives of an aging CPF population. As though this is the sole place they might look to find out which anti-inflammatories they should take during a health crisis. That’s ludicrous. We need to present facts, but anyone interested in their health should also seek qualified professional advice rather than take medical direction from someone on an enthusiast forum. I think it’s pretty obvious what my point was, and I don’t seek to argue it any further. 

All members should use a sound mind and expert advice when selecting their healthcare. Neither you as a warehouse employee nor I as a small business owner are qualified to prescribe a treatment plan for anyone here for COVID19 or any other ailment. Is that a sufficient disclaimer?


----------



## bigburly912

ven said:


> Lets look at the positives, which ever way we look at this right now. Quality family time, time spent that usually we are up and out the door before others wake. Enjoy the times together, guilt free!!!



Amen brother!


----------



## orbital

+


*Reinvest in American manufacturing immediately.*


----------



## StarHalo

nbp said:


> Is that a sufficient disclaimer?


My original post specifically cites the French as being the current, and only, source as it precedes any WHO statement by two days. The Lancet article plainly shows the concept is theoretical and has not been tested. The NPR article verifies that this has not been tested. 

I pointed out that you're coming down hard on one user for one now-defunct point when a number of people have been openly leading readers to simply overlook facts altogether, your response now is to come down harder on the one user and hand everyone a disclaimer that this is a silly place to look for facts.

Whatever it is you're looking for in singling me out, I can't help you.


----------



## bigburly912

Probably because you are the only person in this thread trying to argue with everything everyone says and putting words in their mouths. That would be my guess. You should take a rest with arguing constantly, be thankful you are healthy, and enjoy life. I’ll be helping build infrastructure tomorrow, my wife will be seeing patients all day. I worry about her every day and have since this mess started. Luckily she was proactive and got fitted for a TB suit before it got bad. Still no cases in my county but everywhere surrounding us.


----------



## Poppy

And Nala said... will you Please STOP Playing with your flashlights!

PLEASE!



ven said:


>


----------



## idleprocess

It's starting to get more real in the DFW metro. I can WFH indefinitely so I'm going to be fine _(and working in telecom could possibly be classed as "essential" if I need to go to the office)_, but all the other "nonessential" people that can't work remote may find themselves in a world of hurt if this goes on too long.


----------



## Poppy




----------



## bigburly912

Hahahaha nice poppy. We all need more of that right now


----------



## bykfixer

orbital said:


> +
> 
> 
> *Reinvest in American manufacturing immediately.*



TRUTH! If nobody thought getting medical supplies from foreign sources was ok, hopefully they are rethinking that now. 



Bigburly912 said:


> ………snip……… my wife will be seeing patients all day. I worry about her every day and have since this mess started. Luckily she was proactive and got fitted for a TB suit before it got bad. Still no cases in my county but everywhere surrounding us.


Great to hear. Be well my man. 


When my pop was in his last days his kidneys gave out numbers of something or other that doctors were alarmed about. Each one reccomended against Motrin and that family of pain relievers. When this thing began causing toilet paper panic we noticed generic Tylenol was all gone but generic Advil etc was plentiful. But folks were buying paper plates by the ton too so I just chalked it up to panic buying based on FOMO (fear of missing out). Remembering what my dads doctors used to say I did grab some Tylenol figuring if this thing does get bad it would all be going to hospitals instead of stores.

It sounds like 3m and Honeywell factories will be switching over (or already have) to making masks and suits. Liquor makers will be making hand sanitizers and GM ventilators. Ford is going to do something too, but details are not out yet. The smartest minds at many of the big companies and schools are focused on wiping out this thing and things like it later. 

Marshall Law is not declared but National Guard units will be dispatched to help get supplies to places where they are needed most. The governors of California, New York and Washington will be in charge of their National Guard units. 

As a political junky since the 1980's I am totally honored to see the two sides lay down their mud clobs and speak with a unified voice right now. Heck even the press has lessened the focus on what is wrong with this person or that party (aside from talking heads who make their living bashing the other side). The alphabet soup press corp is asking intellegent questions at the daily press conferences for the most part. There'll be plenty to squabble about later.


----------



## Poppy

Bigburly912 said:


> Hahahaha nice poppy. We all need more of that right now


Yes Mr Big, a little levity, some comfort food, and friends and family.
We need to remember... Life is Good! Enjoy the little things.
Thanks ;-)


----------



## orbital

+

Summer soon


----------



## archimedes

I think it is fair to say that everyone is stressed at the moment.

Different personalities react to stress differently. Some joke, some downplay, some panic, some withdraw, some seek interaction or distraction.

Please keep in mind that moderation here on CPF is ~ 90% driven by other members' reports and complaints, not by mods themselves.

With several of my posts above, what seems like ages ago now (but really only a few days back) , I had asked for several in this thread to cool down the rhetoric. So no, no one here is being singled out.

Please try to keep these points in mind. Being friendly, helpful, open minded, and supportive of each other, is of immense value in a crisis. Both in our own little community, as well as out in the world at large.

Thank you all for attempting to be thoughtful and considerate at this time of crisis.


----------



## bigburly912

Poppy said:


> Yes Mr Big, a little levity, some comfort food, and friends and family.
> We need to remember... Life is Good! Enjoy the little things.
> Thanks ;-)



My wife had never had pork loin so I slow cooked one today for 4 hours made some taters and green beans with it. Made us happy until we go back to the grind tomorrow.


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## knucklegary

Man.. i can't stop thinking about ice cream sandwiches🍰

Everybody stay safe next week!


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> TRUTH! If nobody thought getting medical supplies from foreign sources was ok, hopefully they are rethinking that now.
> 
> 
> Great to hear. Be well my man.
> 
> 
> When my pop was in his last days his kidneys gave out numbers of something or other that doctors were alarmed about. Each one reccomended against Motrin and that family of pain relievers. When this thing began causing toilet paper panic we noticed generic Tylenol was all gone but generic Advil etc was plentiful. But folks were buying paper plates by the ton too so I just chalked it up to panic buying based on FOMO (fear of missing out). Remembering what my dads doctors used to say I did grab some Tylenol figuring if this thing does get bad it would all be going to hospitals instead of stores.


Yes, but if your dad had liver disease, they'd be recommending against Tylenol.

My understanding is that cold and flu medications don't shorten the process, and may in fact make a cold last an extra day or so, but that they make you more comfortable when you are miserable. I am bad about taking my vitamins regularly, although I KNOW that they work. If I am good about it, I won't get a cold all season. If not, I may get two or three during the cold season. When I get a cold I take Dayquil, and NiteQuil I think they are acetaminophen based (Tylenol based). 

Last week I saw an article about ibuprofen and corona, that made sense. When I was in the pharmacy getting asthma meds, I decided to get an antipyretic and had my choice... ibuprofen or acetaminophen. I grabbed a bottle of acetaminophen. 

Most important! I leave my vitamins out so that I don't forget them.


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## archimedes

In my daily life over these past few days and weeks of the plague-times, I will say that I have noted a remarkable change in the ordinary demeanor of most people I encounter.

Worried, yes, but remarkably cheery, pleasant, and with a "can-do" attitude that is heartening.

It is indeed possible for the worst of times to being out the best of humanity.


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## trailhunter

Imagine those very few people doing 2-3 month excursion into wilderness and not having any contact to the outside world then coming back into civilization and just getting word that there is a massive pandemic.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Poppy

For about a week our mayor has a daily video report. It's boring as all get out. It does however serve a purpose. It keeps a bit of a personal touch to the elected officials of the community. He gives thanks and praise to our police and voluntary EMTs and Fire Department etc. He also gives the infected count, and their sex and age. He assures us that there will be more.

Soon there will be a drive through testing site in our town. Undoubtedly the numbers will jump. I sent him a link to the video in Dave's post. I hope that he uses it in the next couple of days so that people will understand what to expect, and why. And WHY it is important to slow the geometric progression of the disease. 

IMO... this is a video that should go viral.
Not one of a dog jumping on a trampoline.



Dave D said:


> *Pandemics For Dummies!*
> 
> If you are still unsure as to why Countries are being locked down because of COVID19 then please take a few minutes to watch the below video, it explains the reasons in simple terms that even i can understand! :twothumbs


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## ledbetter

Anosmia, the loss of the sense of smell, has emerged as a leading symptom of covid19 and was shown to be one of more common symptoms of all who tested positive in South Korea. Also, it may be the only symptom of those who are carriers.


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## Hooked on Fenix

ledbetter said:


> Anosmia, the loss of the sense of smell, has emerged as a leading symptom of covid19 and was shown to be one of more common symptoms of all who tested positive in South Korea. Also, it may be the only symptom of those who are carriers.



So farting can be used as an early warning system against those with corona virus? Good to know for next time I'm sharing an elevator.


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## ledbetter

Hooked on Fenix said:


> So farting can be used as an early warning system against those with corona virus? Good to know for next time I'm sharing an elevator.



So, you’re hooked on Fenix and farting but not science or facts? What grade did you finish?


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## Tachead

ledbetter said:


> So, you’re hooked on Fenix and farting but not science or facts? What grade did you finish?


I think that was levity genius. A little light hearted humour can help in these tense times. Give post #344 a read[emoji106]. 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


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## idleprocess

ledbetter said:


> Anosmia, the loss of the sense of smell, has emerged as a leading symptom of covid19 and was shown to be one of more common symptoms of all who tested positive in South Korea. Also, it may be the only symptom of those who are carriers.



Interesting, but pretty useless for me with an _olfactory_ acuity that lingers at perhaps 10% that of the average person's.


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## StarHalo

archimedes said:


> I think it is fair to say that everyone is stressed at the moment.
> 
> Different personalities react to stress differently. Some joke, some downplay, some panic, some withdraw, some seek interaction or distraction.
> 
> In my daily life over these past few days and weeks of the plague-times, I will say that I have noted a remarkable change in the ordinary demeanor of most people I encounter.
> 
> Worried, yes, but remarkably cheery, pleasant, and with a "can-do" attitude that is heartening.



These are excellent points; most everyone I've encountered IRL realizes the need to work together and make the most of this time, it's only in the anonymity of the internet that random strangers feel the need to interject just to see what you'll do/what they can get away with, something that never happens when standing in line at the market or walking down the street. It's as Russell Brand says, "There is not just one Coronavirus, there is what we project onto the Coronavirus." 

Meanwhile, I'm hanging out in the front yard with my camera most of the day today, was sunny and in the 70's, lots of folks out for a walk. A couple of ladies walking a giant dog stopped and asked what I take pictures of, I replied "mostly birds!" and stayed true to it:


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## ledbetter

Tachead said:


> I think that was levity genius. A little light hearted humour can help in these tense times. Give post #344 a read[emoji106].
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk



Oh, I get it, farting serves as levity in the hinterlands of the great northwest. Never underestimate the sophistication of the Canadians!


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## bigburly912

Wow. Another one


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## nbp

Farts are always funny. Don’t even pretend like they aren’t. [emoji6]


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## Tachead

YOUR JOKES DON'T MEET MY REQUIRED LEVEL OF SOPHISTICATION!!! 


That was in Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice[emoji16]

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


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## archimedes

StarHalo said:


> These are excellent points; most everyone I've encountered IRL realizes the need to work together and make the most of this time, it's only in the anonymity of the internet that random strangers feel the need to interject just to see what you'll do/what they can get away with, something that never happens when standing in line at the market or walking down the street....



I would only offer that most of the main commentators in this thread are not truly "random strangers" , despite that we are on the internet here.

I see lots of posters in this thread with hundreds, thousands, even ten-thousand-plus posts on CPF.

I think that there are pretty well-known and differing viewpoints represented among those long-time members.

We are part of a community here, and should strive to treat each other with respect, even when we disagree.

True troll postings "to see what they can get away with" go  pretty quickly


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## RetroTechie

An update from my country:

People are asked to stay @ home as much as possible, but this is not enforced (yet). So many people take the opportunity to go out on nature walks, jogging etc (should be fine imho as long as you avoid close proximity to other people). But also hit the beach in droves or bunch up in nice-looking areas in parks.  All events gathering 100+ people are cancelled, many businesses like cinemas, fitness clubs etc have been closed. Even Ikea stores, not just the restaurants in there. Garden centres & hardware stores are still open - for now. But for smaller shops like hairdressers it's a 50/50: some shut their doors, some stay open with some extra measures & customer notices in place. Streets are quiet so most people seem to be observing the 'curfew'. Other popular pastimes: home improvement / spring cleaning, gardening, cooking, playing board games with the family etc.

For over a week, the tested-positive # of patients is up roughly 20% per day (doubling each 3.5 days, 4x per week). I can almost predict the number that shows up on the daily report (rivm.nl). Note that only specific groups are tested due to limited availability of test kits, and Dutch government is NOT very pro-active on hunting down patient contacts (which is stupid imho - yes it takes work but it has effect & is still doable when numbers are small). :sigh: Similar trend is seen for the # of deaths, obviously this is much lower absolute number & lagging some weeks behind. It will probably take another week or so until earlier measures take effect. So expect the NL to hit 10k+ _recorded_ patients and 500+ deaths by next weekend. The current rate is already 20x the # of traffic deaths in our country...

For above reasons it wouldn't surprise me if containment measures are tightened up in the days ahead.

Saturday I finally hit a supermarket & a Turkish store (where I buy my dry beans, lentils etc). You could sense people felt uneasy, but otherwise things seemed -mostly- normal. In the Turkish store, the 'beans shelves' were lightly stocked (not empty), as was the herbs & spices section (!). Some empty spots in canned goods, most pasta still available (not too popular with _this store's_ clientele I suspect  ). In the regular supermarket: yeah TP still wiped out, most pasta gone, canned goods clearly popular but available. Most surprising 'panic buy item' I saw: CHOCOLATE. :huh: Hey you read it here first... Comfort food? Presents for family?

I've noticed how much attention there is in the media on the virus itself & how it spreads, but how _little_ attention is giving to mental well-being of people, or 2nd order effects. For example:
* Panic buying drives up food prices. This may cause shortages in OTHER places around the world. Like for people who don't have the money to keep 3 months worth of food in their house.
* Protests in Colombian prisons. Inmates in crowded spaces, deadly disease on its way & government turning its attention elsewhere. Yeah that tends to rile up the folks on the receiving end...
* A full lockdown often means no permission to go outside for jogging, cycling or such. In the face of knowledge that exercise boosts both spirit & immune system.
* Not to mention duration. Stay indoors / avoid social contacts for a few weeks? Sure. How about a month? How about longer? Or jojo-ing between lockdown & relaxed measures as infection rates decrease & increase again. Maybe the Chinese, they pay attention to what authorities tell them to do. The Dutch: sure they listen. But then decide for themselves...
* All by itself, uncertainty about financial situation, job prospects etc will be dealing a MASSIVE blow to the population's mental well-being. Stress does damage, period. Even if there's no physical scars showing.

I'm sure 2020 will be a year where a lot of these knock-on effects will play out. Big, sudden & unexpected economic, political & social changes ahead. Regardless of whether this virus keeps raging on or some cure will be found & everything's fine again. Tipping points will be reached, and some irreversible changes seen _anyway_.

In other news: https://www.flickr.com/photos/nunatech/49688834573/

No point arguing when a TREE says it's springtime. :laughing:


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## Dave D

Poppy said:


> IMO... this is a video that should go viral.
> Not one of a dog jumping on a trampoline.



I'm glad that the message is getting through to folk, I was beginning to feel like I was with some of the responses to my warnings of what's happening in Europe.


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## ven

Bigburly912 said:


> My wife had never had pork loin so I slow cooked one today for 4 hours made some taters and green beans with it. Made us happy until we go back to the grind tomorrow.




I feel for you brother, its worrying times at the best. To have a loved one go out, coming into contact with people possibly infected or infected is sure scary. She is an angel, no doubt there, amazing people of all walks working, saving lives around the world. 

We have hero's all around us, be them soldiers, police, fire/ rescue and health. As our hero's have served(or still serve) during wars past and present, the health workers are also hero's. These are the amazing people who could save us direct, friends, members of our families. 

Love and well wishes sent across the pond, thank you to her for what she is doing, doing for everyone. 

To help her and 1000's of other health workers, we can do our bit. Listen to advice about keeping distances, avoid crowds and if over 70 or at high risk, stay in! By doing our bit, we are helping the health workers do theirs. That means lives saved.


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## orbital

+

Current cases of Covid-19 are approx. 0.010% of US population.
This is taking into account most cases being mild or recovered.

from CDC.gov 3/23/20


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## wweiss

Remember Alice in Wonderland - Through the Looking Glass? These times are a little like that. 

Once Alice passed through the mirror, she was lost and confused by what she saw and how nothing was “normal”. [FONT=&quot]The key to Alice’s eventual return from Wonderland was to accept the order within the disorder - when she was able to see the order in the chaos, she was able to return home.[/FONT]


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## ven

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Current cases of Covid-19 are approx. 0.010% of US population.
> This is taking into account most cases being mild or recovered.
> 
> from CDC.gov 3/23/20




That over the next week/s months is unfortunately going to change hugely . Its not started yet, isolation/quarantine now is possibly too late even now. But it will help stop the spread if it cant spread anymore. 
UK a 28yr old, runs marathons, training for ironman caught from the underground in London. He is not fully recovered as will take months, but it put him on a ventilator and in hospital for 2 weeks. Coughing up blood , my point if a 28yr old can get his a55 kicked who is healthy..........we need to act now and do our bit.

I will admit and down to mainly press, it came across as elderly/ vulnerable and underlining health conditions are at risk. They are, but so is everyone else!!! Regardless if your 18 or 88, we are all at risk here. If your young and fit, your not imune. Granted you have a better chance of recovery, but its no flu or cold............ 

Stay safe, stay away(keep distance) and avoid anywhere busy. Hopefully more will get the message. UK side its imminent for a full lock down. Should have been a week or more back. The sooner people take this serious the better. These ignorant *beeps* going about in groups are the ones that will pass to us, our loved ones our friends. 

It sure winds me up!


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## jabe1

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Current cases of Covid-19 are approx. 0.010% of US population.
> This is taking into account most cases being mild or recovered.
> 
> from CDC.gov 3/23/20



Keep in mind that that’s only the known and tested cases. This time of year where I live, people are used to having a slight cold or allergies kick up a bit. Today that could be a mild Covid-19 case. Many of them are just out and about doing their thing, and spreading it.
The way this virus spreads, those numbers are probably showing only 10% or so of the actual.

Stay away from others, remain at home if possible, clean and disinfect everything when you come home; don’t forget your phone and keys.

I try to behave as if anyone and everyone has it. 

Stay healthy and safe everyone!


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## bykfixer

[


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## orbital

+

re: jabe1

Not sure where you got your numbers, but if there are five times the cases out there unreported, compared to 'confirmed' CDC cases,
that is still 99.05% of people in the US that don't have it.

does that mean start being irresponsible citizens, hell no.


People need to buy some bleach & stop touching their faces *PERIOD *
If people cough or sneeze into their hands, sanitize ones hands absolutely immediately.


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## knucklegary

^^ I turned on TV to C-SPAN and got so nauseous watching Congress argue over recovery bill, now I think I've contracted Green New Deal BS through my eyeballs and ears!


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## bigburly912

I threw up when I found out Harvey Weinstein was tested even though he had no symptoms


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## bykfixer

So before tests became _as _available there were lots of us walking around not knowing if the cough and sniffles were allergies, a cold, a flu bug or (gasp) COVID-19……

We now know that 90% of those showing the signs that warrant a test are coming back negative. 

My post yesterday regarding numbers for 3/22 was early in the day. An update showed that again there were more cases than the day before but……not many and those are in islolated areas. The pace does show signs of slowing for the last 3 days. The population of the US that is on good behavior is actually making a difference. It is still early in this thing so no time to suddenly celebrate. But if we all stick together the total number will not be anywhere close to what the predictions by some are. Remember, these are the folks who predicted Florida would be under water by 1980, then 2000, then 2019 (if we made it past 2012).


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## knucklegary

Some areas of Florida under water might not be a bad idea (-;


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## bykfixer

Yeah KG, if only because the Corona virus can't swim. 

Let's all go surfing.


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## trailhunter

The virus has been seen to survive up to 17 days after people boarded off the princess cruise ship


[emoji3064]

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## knucklegary

That does not surprise me those large floating tin cans are breeding grounds for all kinds of disease


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## knucklegary

Good point Byk, 
A daily salt water sinus purge, like some of us get during a surfing session, could be a good Covid19 preventative :thinking:


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## bykfixer

Can't hurt Gary. Trouble is, in my state the ocean area is a COVID hotspot. 

Went to Food Lion for an impulse buy and they had toilet paper. Now when we headed to the checkout line Mrs Fixer says "#3 is open with no waiting". Yeah it was because the young lady behind the register was having a sneeze attack. Helllll naw I aint going to aisle #3. Aisle 66 would have been too close for comfort in my view. There was another employee standing right next to "sneezy" acting as if nothing was up. Meanwhile customers were suddenly walking wide circles around aisle 3 with eyes like coffee saucers. 

I was thinking of a t-shirt as we left. "I survived the panic at the Food Lion". And like clockwork at least 6 places on my face were itching as I walk through the exit door.


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## knucklegary

^ LMAO!


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## orbital

orbital said:


> +
> 
> re: jabe1
> 
> Not sure where you got your numbers, but if there are five times the cases out there unreported, compared to 'confirmed' CDC cases,
> that is still 99.05% of people in the US that don't have it.
> 
> does that mean start being irresponsible citizens, hell no.
> 
> 
> People need to buy some bleach & stop touching their faces *PERIOD *
> If people cough or sneeze into their hands, sanitize ones hands absolutely immediately.



+

Pardon quoting myself, but there is an important math typo corrected from previous 

"but if there are five times the cases out there unreported, compared to 'confirmed' CDC cases,
*that is still 99.95% of people in the US that don't have it."


*


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## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> I was thinking of a t-shirt as we left. "I survived the panic at the Food Lion". And like clockwork at least 6 places on my face were itching as I walk through the exit door.



Redbubble is a step ahead of all of us most of the time:


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## Chauncey Gardiner

Earlier today my 80 something mother called to say she was almost out of the special food two of her cats eat for their sensitive stomaches. 

Mom - "Would you go with me to the Lakewood Mall today?" 

Me - "Hold on a minute." 

In two minutes I had two bags ordered on Amazon, arriving Thursday. No trip to the mall for us. :shakehead 

The governor of Oregon issued a state-wide executive Stay At Home order. I'm sure Washington's governor will follow suite in a day or two.


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## Poppy

Gentlemen:
Whatever the numbers appear to be, overall, they are irrelevant, IMO because there has been such a small percentage of the overall population tested. IMO in a month, we will have much more relevant numbers to work with to determine the rate of spread.

If we all practice safe behavior, the rate of geometric progression of spread will slow. If we do not, the rate of serious, life threatening cases will outrun our capacity to treat and more people will die. Simple as that.

State and Federal bailouts of businesses and individuals, is not sustainable. The total shutdown of production can not last. We must go back to work, but the question is not only when, but who? what class of people? those who are recovered and immune? those who are young and physically fit? everyone except for the in-firmed, or particularly elderly? 

Currently the strategy is to try to limit the serious cases to that which we can treat. 

I certainly appreciate those who try to communicate, calmness, I am with them 100%, yet, to use small percentage numbers today, and to fail to predict the geometric progression of where we will be in 30 days is irresponsible. It can't be done... we don't have enough data.

On the positive side, during Governor Cuomo's press conference today, they are testing using antibodies derived from those who recovered from the virus to treat those with it. Let's pray.


----------



## RedLED

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Earlier today my 80 something mother called to say she was almost out of the special food two of her cats eat for their sensitive stomaches.
> 
> Mom - "Would you go with me to the Lakewood Mall today?"
> 
> Me - "Hold on a minute."
> 
> In two minutes I had two bags ordered on Amazon, arriving Thursday. No trip to the mall for us. :shakehead
> 
> The governor of Oregon issued a state-wide executive Stay At Home order. I'm sure Washington's governor will follow suite in a day or two.



That's right, we Can't forget about our cats and dogs. I bought a 30Lb. Backup bag of Meow Mix for the outdoor crew of cats, and several bags of the food we feed the indoor cats. Why Meow Mix? Because cats ask for it by name! (God that's lame).

We only have cats at the desert house, I can't keep cats in four locations. And when we are traveling the neighbor feeds them for us.


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## ven

UK is on full lock down as expected, not helped due to the selfish idiots(being super polite here) at weekend. Thinking its a jolly, schools shut and people off work, so lets all go to various holiday hotspots. 

Anyway thats been and gone, now full lock down for at least 3 weeks. Only leave the house for essentials(food/medicines) . Exercise once, so a walk or jog in park . Admittedly this part cannot be monitored, but no groups of more than 2 unless family. None essential work, stay at home. 

Even separated parents, the kid/s stay at the house/flat or where ever they live, no movement!.

Stay safe, dont panic, and just get on with it. Could be worse chilling at home watching TV or playing games. Many have to go out to work to help save our a55e5, putting their lives at risk for us, us who cant even follow basic instruction. It boils my blood to say the least. I know its minority, as it always is, but darn those stupid fools.


----------



## scout24

Going grocery shopping this morning for a few essentials before the stores get crowded. Wearing gloves and a mask, more as a reminder to myself to keep distance and not touch my face. Card reader at the register, cart handles, inadvertently getting close to people... Ugh. Our local Orange Home Improvement Store was doing lineups outside all weekend, one out one in, trying to keep the in-store crowd seperated. Too many people out and about here...


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## ven

I think things will settle down a little over the next week or so. Once initial panicking subsides and hopefully a little common sense prevails. There is enough for everyone, we are not going to run out! Dont panic buy, just get what you need. If only people could follow simple instructions..............not here in the UK anyway.

Stay safe brother., we will get through this. With us all doing our bit, our elders can get through this to. 

Our NHS message to us is simple, stay at home and save lives. Only travel for necessities (food/medicines etc). Whats the betting some people in the UK cant even follow that.


----------



## wweiss

Time will tell, but I think it will be getting a lot more intense - for quite a while - before it recedes. Especially if the common sense found in the previous posts is not used.


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## markr6

I went to Meijer (big grocery store if you're not familiar) last night after work. At 5:30pm I wasn't expecting it to be easy, but WOW! The place was wiped out! When the entire section of Ramen is cleared out, you know it's bad. Even the shrimp ramen. SHRIMP!!!!

There are a lot of options all within 10-20min drive though. 4 Wal-mart, 4 Meijer, 8 Kroger, 3 Aldi, several meat markets, small/organic stores, then places in a pinch like Target, Walgreens, CVS, etc. It just depends how bad you want "this" or "that".

I think dishwasher pods are the new toilet paper. Couldn't find simple Cascade Complete ANYWHERE local or even online. Except people marking them way up on ebay. I finally ordered on Amazon even though it said 'In Stock April 9'. Turns out they'll ship early, like next week. Damn I love Amazon, but I've been reducing/stopped my online ordering to try and give them and UPS a break.


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## bykfixer

We are doing similar Markr. Not ordering a lot online right now. I have a hat stuck in New Jersey. Ordinarily it would have arrived by now but it has been setting in the same location for three days while more "important" cargo makes its way to destinations that need it a lot more than I need _another _baseball cap. So for now things like toilet paper and other items not on store shelves we generally have plenty of anyway.


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## archimedes

markr6 said:


> .... I think dishwasher pods are the new toilet paper. Couldn't find simple Cascade Complete ANYWHERE local or even online....



Yes, we are well into second-order effects by now. Now that all restaurants have been shuttered, people are washing many times more dishes. Cleanliness and washing up in general has seen a huge boost.

I have noticed almost complete wipe out of all types of cleaning products, including bar soap, laundry detergent, dishwashing supplies, and (of course) clorox wipes and such.

I suspect that further next-order effects are not far off now, as nerves will start to fray over the next couple of weeks, and as the confinement restrictions appear to be planned to tighten in many areas


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## markr6

NO FOOD FOR ME!






Pretty crazy. Hopefully the people with 900 lbs of chicken in the freezer will use it wisely. Me, I shop every few days buying what I need for the next few days. That's no fun these days. But I'll continue to do so until they start stopping me in the lot and asking to see my papers.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

We're going to need groceries within the next three days. I'm conflicted. Purchase enough for three weeks to reduce trips or purchase only enough for a week not wanting to be part of the problem? 

Edit: Perhaps I'm kidding myself, thinking there's enough for three weeks worth at the local store. I don't know since I haven't been shopping in eight days.


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## markr6

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> We're going to need groceries within the next three days. I'm conflicted. Purchase enough for three weeks to reduce trips or purchase only enough for a week not wanting to be part of the problem?
> 
> Edit: Perhaps I'm kidding myself, thinking there's enough for three weeks worth at the local store. I don't know since I haven't been shopping in eight days.



I think a lot of people ordinarily buy enough for 2-3 weeks under normal circumstances. At least I always assumed. My parents always did that, 2 weeks at least. But me living by myself 90% of the time, it's hard to stock up. I have trouble killing a gallon of milk before it goes bad. And I like to eat unfrozen stuff anyway; something about thawing out meat grosses me out.


----------



## ven

Honestly CG, just buy what you need. Thats what we have done and will continue. My reasons are simple, imagine your health workers, doctors late at night after 16hr shift. They manage to find time to get some groceries...........they see what you see. We are inconvenienced by the selfish self centred, but can try somewhere else. Not with worry about getting home to get a few hours sleep, then to start over saving peoples lives. 

Thats my thoughts in a nut shell, if everyone bought what they needed(carry on as normal) The logistic side can keep up as per normal, no one runs out, the people who we may need to save our lives/loved ones lives also dont loose out. I wont be part of the problem, even if it makes my life easier. I can help out, buy buying what i need, by staying at home.......that helps save lives. It also does not lower our already tested health workers moral. 

Just thoughts.


----------



## Greta

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> We're going to need groceries within the next three days. I'm conflicted. Purchase enough for three weeks to reduce trips or purchase only enough for a week not wanting to be part of the problem?
> 
> Edit: Perhaps I'm kidding myself, thinking there's enough for three weeks worth at the local store. I don't know since I haven't been shopping in eight days.



Support your local eateries who are still doing take out and drive-thru. And use paper plates at home. I ordered trash bags on Amazon (only one box) and some ziplock bags also.


----------



## StarHalo

Don't be a link in the chain of events, folks: Man Dies, Wife Critical From Chloroquine After Hearing Trump Tout Unproven COVID-19 Treatment


----------



## knucklegary

"Stupid is as stupid does"


----------



## bigburly912

The two actually took a treatment for parasite infestations in aquariums which listed chloroquine phosphate as an ingredient and was only in their residence because they had once owned koi.

People need to quit saying doses as low as 2 grams can be fatal. 2 grams of Tylenol can be fatal. Stupidity and ridiculous. That whole article is a joke trying to slam the president. The drug may not work but anything taken incorrectly is dangerous.


----------



## knucklegary

^ That!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner




----------



## Greta

StarHalo - please stop with the provocative links and posts. Yeah - those people were totally stupid, and blaming ANYONE but themselves for their stupidity is well... STUPID! So just stop. We know you have a certain opinion about the current administration, but that's not what this is about. Just stop.


----------



## bykfixer

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> We're going to need groceries within the next three days. I'm conflicted. Purchase enough for three weeks to reduce trips or purchase only enough for a week not wanting to be part of the problem?
> 
> Edit: Perhaps I'm kidding myself, thinking there's enough for three weeks worth at the local store. I don't know since I haven't been shopping in eight days.



What we have been doing CG is adding to our roster with things that don't spoil. Like a typical weeks groceries with two boxes of spagetti noodles instead of one. Two jars of sauce instead of one. And we have gone about mid week and added a few items. 

Then we get take out a bit more often in order to help the local economy while not depleting what we have "in stock". Mrs Fixer likes milk in her coffee. One week there was none so she used powder for a couple of days. When the store had milk I bought a quart of skim to freeze since it doesn't have the fat which separates from water when freezing so when thawed it is not all clumpy. She bought her usual 2% and life goes on.


----------



## StarHalo

Greta said:


> StarHalo - please stop with the provocative links and posts. Yeah - those people were totally stupid, and blaming ANYONE but themselves for their stupidity is well... STUPID! So just stop. We know you have a certain opinion about the current administration, but that's not what this is about. Just stop.



I apologize if the link came off as provocative, but I was specifically told that it would be ridiculous to think that people would get medical advice from anything other than a medical professional - now we have an unfortunate reminder that that's not at all the case, and that the only way to deal with a virus that knows no political bounds is through simple responsibility and dealing with others with care, not political rhetoric. My message from the beginning is that you have got to be careful with this situation, that boundless team spirit optimism, regardless of where you got it, doesn't apply to contagion math and quite often makes it worse. Remember that you set the example, and being mindful of others who see/read you [who might not always do the right thing] is a good example to set..


----------



## ven

Well after all my car expense(running perfect and i am grabbing wood as i type), i went out, checked tyre pressures, checked oil, coolant, topped washer bottle up 200ml or so. Then took for a battery topping up 15 mile run. With being in the garage for 2 weeks, it got lazy. I took advantage of euro parts 60% off and got a battery for £80 , delivered within 2hrs of ordering this morning(ordered 7.30am, at mine for 9.30am) which is a record for me!!!!!

I also from amazon got a battery jump kit(think beefed up power pack) with 2000a potential. So if it does fail on me now, i have peace of mind out and about when services will not be quite the same. It was a nice climate controlled waft, smooth effortless drive, all by myself........fantastic!!! Bit naughty other than freeing my mind up of 4 walls, so on the way back i stopped to top the tank back to full, loaf of bread and a litre of milk!. So my little journey was not wasted, managed to get a couple of bits we were getting low on.

Also a couple more blinds came, so these will be tomorrows little jobs in the kitchen. Just little bits and bobs to keep me out of mischief , whilst being productive. You know the type of jobs, the ones you will do when you get time! Well i have time, so just trying to make positives as much as i can.

Cheers


----------



## archimedes

StarHalo said:


> I apologize if the link came off as provocative, but I was specifically told....



I have already mentioned repeatedly that this thread is not about "scoring points" and you have not been "singled out" ... at least beyond the extent of those here who seem to be attempting to politicize a global catastrophe.

I would like to see this thread continue to be a way for us to share objective information, civil and respectful discussion, and supportive hope and good cheer, in a sense of shared community.

Yes, there may be reasonable differences of opinion and approach, but being needlessly provocative is unwelcome.

Please, everyone, think before you post.

And I would like to not have to repeat this again. Thank you.


----------



## lion504

I don't think there's much simple about the state of affairs at the moment. Expedite new treatments or follow (relatively slow but proven) clinical trial process; prioritize quarantining or small business viability; optimism or pessimism? These are tough decisions, and no "right" answer, IMHO. Regardless of the political choice, the loss may be great. I'm praying it's not.


----------



## wacbzz

ven said:


> I also from amazon got a *battery jump kit*(think beefed up power pack) with 2000a potential. So if it does fail on me now, i have peace of mind...



I’ve been thinking about one of these for months, but don’t really want to wade through the “advertising” about one brand vs the other that seems to be out there concerning this item. Do you mind telling which one you purchased and why?



archimedes said:


> I would like to see this thread continue to be a way for us to share objective information, civil and respectful discussion, and supportive hope and good cheer, in a sense of shared community.



Perfect. Objective info. In addition to backhanded political points, may we also put sly religious talk on that same back burner?

Both subjects have their place in the UG and not here...


----------



## Lumen83

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> We're going to need groceries within the next three days. I'm conflicted. Purchase enough for three weeks to reduce trips or purchase only enough for a week not wanting to be part of the problem?
> 
> Edit: Perhaps I'm kidding myself, thinking there's enough for three weeks worth at the local store. I don't know since I haven't been shopping in eight days.



I'd probably split the concept somewhere in the middle. Get about what you need for 5 days. And pick up some extra stuff that keeps a very long time in case you need to go longer. Canned goods and pasta, stuff like that. I'm not saying hoard it all. Just a little bit goes a long way. I've kept a month or more worth of pasta and freeze dried food in the house in prep for times like this. This is the first time I've ever needed it. But I am glad I have it and don't have to make those decisions now.


----------



## orbital

+

Unprecedented hard decisions now.


Many are _damned if you do, dammed if you don't


_


----------



## StarHalo

archimedes said:


> this thread is not about "scoring points" and you have not been "singled out" ... at least beyond the extent of those here who seem to be attempting to politicize a global catastrophe.
> 
> I would like to see this thread continue to be a way for us to share objective information, civil and respectful discussion, and supportive hope and good cheer, in a sense of shared community.



You're right, that's valid.

For those who haven't seen it, this is the bit about Vitamin D and respiratory infections:


----------



## P_A_S_1

The UG, the Wild West of CPF... forgot all about that. Gotta check that out.
🍿 🍿


----------



## Lumen83

ven said:


> I also from amazon got a battery jump kit(think beefed up power pack) with 2000a potential. So if it does fail on me now, i have peace of mind out and about when services will not be quite the same.



Excellent idea! Thanks for reminding me to make sure mine is charged up. It has saved my skin numerous times.


----------



## archimedes

wacbzz said:


> .... Perfect. Objective info. In addition to backhanded political points, may we also put sly religious talk on that same back burner?
> 
> Both subjects have their place in the UG and not here...



I've not recalled overtly religious posts in this thread, beyond simply those "hoping and praying" for the afflicted and our front-line providers.

But I agree, religious topics would be in the same category as political ones ... take to the Underground, or keep to yourself, please.

If there are any religious posts which offend your sensibilities, you are welcome to use the "report" button and they will be evaluated, same as with all of the complaints we mods have been fielding on the politically-tinged ones :shrug:


----------



## bykfixer

I saw lots of trains lately. They had been scarce for a few days. The surprise was seeing Amtraks running. And my work sent me to a Home Depot to get an infrared thermometer for a coworker to check asphalt temperatures. Well it seems some have been using those to check foreheads of folks entering banks, rest homes etc so like typical the $22 ones were gone, the $35 ones were gone and there were plenty of $95 ones. Well the company bought a $95 one today.


----------



## markr6

This whole thing will teach me not to float day to day on 3 rolls of TP, half a box of cereal, milk that's about to expire and a few more loads worth of laundry detergent! I'll slowly ramp up a mini stockpile in my basement after things go back to normal.


----------



## archimedes

bykfixer said:


> Do you work for MSNBC too? ....



Byk, would you please consider editing your post ?


----------



## lion504

markr6 said:


> This whole thing will teach me not to float day to day on 3 rolls of TP, half a box of cereal, milk that's about to expire and a few more loads worth of laundry detergent! I'll slowly ramp up a mini stockpile in my basement after things go back to normal.



+1, can't eat flashlights or li-ions.


----------



## StarHalo

markr6 said:


> This whole thing will teach me not to float day to day on 3 rolls of TP, half a box of cereal, milk that's about to expire and a few more loads worth of laundry detergent! I'll slowly ramp up a mini stockpile in my basement after things go back to normal.



If you do the "subscription" delivery from one of the online places/box stores, it makes it really easy; we always have at least a half case of TP and some soap/cleansers/etc at any given time.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Staying on top of things and not letting stuff build up is a good idea too. A few years back we caught the flu, first time ever, and wow that was a rough 3 days. Having little things squared away helped a lot. Then I caught noro virus which was even rougher but only took a day to get past the worst. You don't necessarily need to stockpile but just have enough and use it sparingly to make it last. Living in small spaces storage is a problem so using less trumps having more.


----------



## markr6

lion504 said:


> +1, can't eat flashlights or li-ions.



LOL! On that note, I have to say people are totally bringing their A-game in the humor department during all this. They're not making fun of sick people obviously, but just everything this virus changed in our everyday lives. Toilet paper, working from home, cabin fever...the jokes and memes are endless and downright creative! Even funnier because most can relate.

I caught something 2 weeks ago and thankfully only lasted about 16 hours. Woke up vomiting at midnight which was instant relief, but the rest of the day I was WIPED OUT! I couldn't get out of bed until 2pm. I almost called the neighbors to drop off some Powerade or something on my doorstep since water wasn't doing it.


----------



## bykfixer

archimedes said:


> Byk, would you please consider editing your post ?



Ironically I returned to do just that.

Some people are so afraid right now you could rob a bank with a booger.


----------



## P_A_S_1

With the noro virus I couldn't drink a glass of water without vomiting it up 15 minutes later. Sipping sports drinks very slowly worked, like 1/3 of the bottle every hour slowly.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

StarHalo said:


> You're right, that's valid.
> 
> For those who haven't seen it, this is the bit about Vitamin D and respiratory infections:




Thank you for this link, StarHalo. This is good, actionable information. I've been taking D3 for years and when they've measured my blood concentration of it, it's been right in the middle of the optimal range. Since I don't get a lot of sun. supplementation is a good thing for me.


----------



## archimedes

bykfixer said:


> Ironically I returned to do just that....



Thank you. Nerves are frayed, tension is high. Let's all do our part, and try to be positive[emoji106]


----------



## markr6

Carry-out/drive-thru only. Our Burger King was just robbed via drive-thru. Crazy times!


----------



## ven

wacbzz said:


> I’ve been thinking about one of these for months, but don’t really want to wade through the “advertising” about one brand vs the other that seems to be out there concerning this item. Do you mind telling which one you purchased and why?
> 
> 
> Hey there, i did a bit of research, like the best boosters 2019/2020 type stuff. Looked at more reputable reviews away from paid to review. Long story short and not wanting to spend $100's i found a decent in the middle .
> Nice carry case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leads etc other side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore the stupid compass bit, the 1000a and 2000a peak is what counts. Watching some videos , seeing how many jumps it can do . This for £73 at time and next day was the one for me.
> The make bellow, be wary of more expensive ones like noco 40 boost which looks the part but junk! Unless go higher end which is then almost twice the cost of this unit
> *UTRAI Car Jump Starter, 2000A Peak 22000mah Portable Car Battery*
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers


----------



## Burgess

Broke my 14 Day, self-imposed Isolation
to drive to my local Wal-Mart at 6am this morning.

Now on Tuesdays, they open One Hour Early,
for Senior Citizens ONLY !

I was DREADING my attempt, thinking it would be
a CRAZY INSANE ZOO ( ! ), but ALL of us Seniors
were extremely well behaved and polite !

Even the Wal-Mart employees were GREAT !
You could certainly TELL they were happy to 
finally have such friendly and pleasant customers.

VERY limited selection in many areas of the store,
but I did manage to obtain almost everything
on my shopping list !

Overall, it was a BIG SUCCESS !


:twothumbs
_


----------



## BVH

On the subject of jump starters, over a 3-year period, I bought 3 Anti-Gravity brand jump units. Two of the best automotive units and 1 of the HD truck units. All 3 failed by swelling and and losing capacity. It's ironic that you want to keep the battery charged at all times in case you need it but keeping these Lipo's or LiIons topped off, kills them in short order. I have a thread here about making my own from a 4S/8400 LiFeP04 by Zippy. These are great batteries for keeping fully topped and not doing any significant damage. The Zippy doesn't bat an eye when starting a 100% dead 2012 Chrysler SRT8 high performance V-8. I haven't searched a lot but have never found a good sized LiFeP04 commercial jump starter.

What I found in the A.G. units when I took them apart, was that the true mAh figure quoted in the specs was not near the truth. If all the cells in the container were in Parallel, then the mAh was closer to the truth, but obviously, the cells are in Series. Kind of a sly trick, I think. And they are only 3S so the badly needed Voltage is already on the low side when you begin to crank. With the 4S LiFeP04 battery, you're starting with almost 2 full Volts more but right in-line with typical automotive electrical system Voltages.


----------



## orbital

+

The reason Lipo batteries work so well are the *incredible amps *they push, that is the key.
I made a_ jumper_ setup w/ a 3S RC battery. At only 11.9V (not even at full charge) it started a car that wouldn't even turn over using a Diehard charger that had a 'special emergency start mode'

Made one for a buddy of mine,, easy gift


----------



## ven

Yes agree , they are far from fool proof BVH. I ignore the mah and just watch actual videos testing the units. Showing the voltage and amps when turning over. Then 20 second rest, repeat, repeat again! Then seeing how much % is left. 

Even (which should not be done!) removing the battery altogether and starting it just from the pack on the cables. It passed all the tests(even ones that should not be done). I will top off every month or 2 and monitor it. It’s no long term investment , that’s for sure. That’s part of the reason I don’t want to tie too much money into one. Just a middle ground type booster, if I get 12 months whoopie , any more is a bonus. 

Good thing, it’s easy to store, can power air compressors, charge phones(at same time if needed). So it has a few uses , will see how it goes. I was expecting to swap out the battery, the actual main reason was to connect to the poles under the hood. Whilst I swap the battery for new, which is under the passenger seat(US drivers). Otherwise it might need coding in with VCDS . Nothing seems straight forward these days, life is complicated enough, manufacturers like to just add to it all . 

Making your own certainly is a plus, you know exactly what’s being used for the power.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

This pandemic is making me nervous. I tend to be pretty well prepared, but this virus, lack of work and money, and my health issues combined make for one heck of a situation nobody could have prepared for. I was pretty well stocked up on emergency food and freeze dried food. In the last few months I was told I have celiac disease, GERD (acid reflux disease caused by a diaphragmatic hernia), and fatty liver disease. My diet is now very restrictive and every freeze dried meal I own and most survival foods have gluten which is off limits. The food I'm limited to has to be cooked at home and tends to go bad sooner. On top of having a more expensive diet that sucks for a bug out type situation, I also have Hashimotos and a hormone imbalance. I have to take a thyroid pill daily to stay alive and my health overall stinks with the weirdest symptoms. With all this that I'm dealing with, I'm trying to keep my sense of humor, stay positive, and pray that things get better soon. Let's remember that we're all in this lousy situation together and arguing over the stupidest things doesn't help anyone.


----------



## wacbzz

Thank you Ven - and others that have weighed in - for the info. I’m going to have to do some CPF searching on these “homemade” versions. This seems like an important piece of kit to own - especially if it can charge up other items.


----------



## scout24

So, an update to my early morning grocery run: I parked, walked towards the store, and went into the cart vestibule. I was approached by a woman in street clothes wearing a mask and gloves. She got close to me, I asked "And who are you?" She stated she was going to take my temperature before I entered. Store policy. We has a rather animated discussion until it was determined she worked for a local health agency. No ID, no uniform, no sign outside, nothing. While I appreciate the effort to screen people, execution was terrible...


----------



## StarHalo

Hooked on Fenix said:


> My diet is now very restrictive and every freeze dried meal I own and most survival foods have gluten which is off limits.



Dry and can/jar yourself, especially now that time allows.


----------



## RedLED

scout24 said:


> So, an update to my early morning grocery run: I parked, walked towards the store, and went into the cart vestibule. I was approached by a woman in street clothes wearing a mask and gloves. She got close to me, I asked "And who are you?" She stated she was going to take my temperature before I entered. Store policy. We has a rather animated discussion until it was determined she worked for a local health agency. No ID, no uniform, no sign outside, nothing. While I appreciate the effort to screen people, execution was terrible...


I agree, they need to have some kind of official ID. What Govt. agency at any level does not require employees to wear credentials in their building these days? Even my small company, I issue photo ID credentials on a lanyard, and gold credential money clips with our logo, and their name and title deep routed on them (Same as the PGA Tour credentials).

I do this since we have many high level corporate and government clients that use our photo and digital services, and it makes them feel better.

I'm always on guard to any person approaching me, especially now. And if I am carrying three or four top of the line DSLR's with super telephoto lenses, and my bag with other gear and lenses, I could have easily $40,000 worth of equipment with me. Then I'm really on guard!


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> So, an update to my early morning grocery run: I parked, walked towards the store, and went into the cart vestibule. I was approached by a woman in street clothes wearing a mask and gloves. She got close to me, I asked "And who are you?" She stated she was going to take my temperature before I entered. Store policy. We has a rather animated discussion until it was determined she worked for a local health agency. No ID, no uniform, no sign outside, nothing. While I appreciate the effort to screen people, execution was terrible...



Did she use an infrared thermometer? I ask because they are selling out in hardware stores. 
At my work I have to fill out a fitness for duty form that now includes covid questions so we just aim our temp guns at each others foreheads (as a joke) before filling out the form each day. 

Archi, this morning I thought of a part in the Band of Brothers series where Captain something or other said to a young soldier "young man you have to over come your fear by just admitting to yourself that you will not survive this war". Private Blythe was the kids name. The captain was that guy who ran through all of the bullets at the battle of the buldge and nver got a scratch. 
I thought of that this morning and decided then and there that I'm going to be more like that captain. Only instead of bullets and bombs wizzing past me it's a virus. I have felt liberated all day. My bp is down, my face don't itch and my mood is 1000x better.


----------



## bigburly912

I’d have walked away if she couldn’t produce an ID


I. Shaved. My. Beard. I am no long bigburly. I’m big not so much burly. : (


----------



## scout24

Byk- Yes, an infrared thermometer was used, no contact. Red- It's a small town, I hope these were oversights and that ID was worn from there forward. She did produce it... Burly- I've resisted shaving mine, so far so good. Almost 2 1/2 years, it'd be tough to let it go! I have to bring my brother in law to the hospital for chemo on Friday, I don't look forward to it for either of us. I guess a mask over the beard is better than nothing..


----------



## orbital

Big(butnot-)burly912 said:


> I. Shaved. My. Beard. I am no long bigburly. I’m big not so much burly. : (



What?!
Did you loose a habanero eating contest?


----------



## bigburly912

Ahh I unload trucks, handle material, ship material from all over the America’s and my wife is a nurse practitioner. I figure if I can do anything to help prevent the holding of a virus the better off I am. Keeps me from constantly touching my face as well. Sad sad day.


----------



## Poppy

Hooked on Fenix said:


> This pandemic is making me nervous. I tend to be pretty well prepared, but this virus, lack of work and money, and my health issues combined make for one heck of a situation nobody could have prepared for. I was pretty well stocked up on emergency food and freeze dried food. In the last few months I was told I have celiac disease, GERD (acid reflux disease caused by a diaphragmatic hernia), and fatty liver disease. My diet is now very restrictive and every freeze dried meal I own and most survival foods have gluten which is off limits. The food I'm limited to has to be cooked at home and tends to go bad sooner. On top of having a more expensive diet that sucks for a bug out type situation, I also have Hashimotos and a hormone imbalance. I have to take a thyroid pill daily to stay alive and my health overall stinks with the weirdest symptoms. With all this that I'm dealing with, I'm trying to keep my sense of humor, stay positive, and pray that things get better soon. Let's remember that we're all in this lousy situation together and arguing over the stupidest things doesn't help anyone.


Sorry bro, it sounds like you have your hands full.

A couple of years ago I went on a grain free diet. I bought a spiralizer but really didn't use it much. It does make making quiches easier. You can shred some veggies, or sweet potatoes to make a type of spaghetti dish.
The tough part of it was to not be able just grab a slice of pizza, or a fast food burger/sandwich. 
When out... Chinese food, or one of my diner favorites... Chicken Francese over spinach.

When home, though I substitute a lot of red skinned potatoes for pasta. 

A few years prior, my son went gluten free, and we found that non-wheat flours were expensive. I threw a couple of cups of rice in the blender and let it rip... out came rice flour. Same thing with Quaker Oats. Much cheaper.

Good luck with your diet.


----------



## RedLED

scout24 said:


> Byk- Yes, an infrared thermometer was used, no contact. Red- It's a small town, I hope these were oversights and that ID was worn from there forward. She did produce it... Burly- I've resisted shaving mine, so far so good. Almost 2 1/2 years, it'd be tough to let it go! I have to bring my brother in law to the hospital for chemo on Friday, I don't look forward to it for either of us. I guess a mask over the beard is better than nothing..


Scout,

Sorry about your brother in law. I was wondering if having a beard would keep your mask from making a seal?

Becareful.


----------



## Poppy

RedLED said:


> Scout,
> 
> Sorry about your brother in law. I was wondering if having a beard would keep your mask from making a seal?
> 
> Becareful.


It's my understanding that during WWI they used nerve gas, and Hitler was almost killed by it, because his mustache didn't allow his gas mask make a tight fit. That's why he shaved most of it off, and left that stupid bit of fur under his nose.


----------



## turbodog

Hey,

First, I have not read the thread. Just popped in here to post something. If there are questions/etc about it, please PM me. I don't come around much anymore, but the PMs will trigger an email alert.

Second, I have seen plenty of people either not take this seriously or fail to recognize just how bad it will get and how quickly it will get that way.

We are seeing daily increases in the USA of about 30%. At that rate, it will cover more or less then entire US in about 35 days. Given the lack of testing ability once it passes a few hundred thousand per day increase we won't know _how_ many are infected.

I post this because it's an exponential growth, something most people have a really hard time understanding. This is not a post to cause panic, but it's to try and get those to understand just how quickly things will get bad toward the end.

My math's not flawless, but it's close enough for now. This is a math problem... trying to keep the transmission rate below what the healthcare system can manage. So far, we are not doing countermeasures quickly enough or aggressively enough.

44,000 24-Mar
57,200 25-Mar
74,360 26-Mar
96,668 27-Mar
125,668 28-Mar
163,369 29-Mar
212,380 30-Mar
276,093 31-Mar
358,922 1-Apr
466,598 2-Apr
606,577 3-Apr
788,551 4-Apr
1,025,116 5-Apr
1,332,650 6-Apr
1,732,446 7-Apr
2,252,179 8-Apr
2,927,833 9-Apr
3,806,183 10-Apr
4,948,038 11-Apr
6,432,449 12-Apr
8,362,184 13-Apr
10,870,839 14-Apr
14,132,091 15-Apr
18,371,718 16-Apr
23,883,234 17-Apr
31,048,204 18-Apr
40,362,665 19-Apr
52,471,465 20-Apr
68,212,904 21-Apr
88,676,776 22-Apr
115,279,808 23-Apr
149,863,751 24-Apr
194,822,876 25-Apr
253,269,739 26-Apr
329,250,661 27-Apr


----------



## archimedes

Yes, viral transmission tends to occur in geographic clusters.

As one region gets "saturated" then transmission falls exponentially there as well, as nearly everyone has been exposed.

There are other effects to consider, such as the fact that the most highly exposed and vulnerable are often affected early, in the absence of countermeasures, leading to a fast rise of case numbers. Later, the less exposed and more hardy who have not yet been infected, are less likely "hosts" leading to another reason for a drop in the rate of spread.

The math and theoretical models are not so simple.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Poppy said:


> Sorry bro, it sounds like you have your hands full.
> 
> A couple of years ago I went on a grain free diet. I bought a spiralizer but really didn't use it much. It does make making quiches easier. You can shred some veggies, or sweet potatoes to make a type of spaghetti dish.
> The tough part of it was to not be able just grab a slice of pizza, or a fast food burger/sandwich.
> When out... Chinese food, or one of my diner favorites... Chicken Francese over spinach.
> 
> When home, though I substitute a lot of red skinned potatoes for pasta.
> 
> A few years prior, my son went gluten free, and we found that non-wheat flours were expensive. I threw a couple of cups of rice in the blender and let it rip... out came rice flour. Same thing with Quaker Oats. Much cheaper.
> 
> Good luck with your diet.



Yes, eating out is difficult. Some food at El Pollo Loco is gluten free and real hard shell tacos are as well (not fast food ones). Chinese food is out as any soy sauce or sauces made from soy sauce (teriyaki, sweet and sour, etc.) have gluten in them. Soy sauce is fermented from wheat. Have to cook with tamari sauce at home if I want Chinese as no restaurants use it. French fries are gluten free but often get dropped in the same oil as foods containing gluten. Some restaurants sell gluten free pizza which is expensive and most of the time isn't prepared in a way where it remains gluten free. Requires it to be cooked in a separate oven and prepared on a separate surface not covered in flour. Other foods I can't have include iodized salt (iodine makes more antibodies that attack my thyroid), raw green vegetables (contain goitragens which slow down the thyroid), citrus fruit, tomatoes, tomato products, soda, spicy food, spices, dairy products, (all bad for acid reflux), greasy, fatty, and sugary foods (bad for fatty liver). Almost forgot that I need to limit foods high in phytoestrogens such as dried fruit, berries, flax seed, and soy due to the hormone imbalance. That's just about everything. By the way, my favorite food was spaghetti. Now I have to make it with "pasta" made entirely from zuchinni. Tastes like a salty luggi.


----------



## orbital

+

Multiplying a number by 1.3 over and over is not taking into account many, many things.

The entire US population isn't going to have Covid-19 in 5 weeks, sorry.


----------



## archimedes

The R0 for the 2009-10 H1N1 influenza (the last respiratory viral pandemic) was estimated at ~ 1.5

CDC estimated infections in the US of that to be approximately 60 million affected.

Since the R0 was > 1, if simple exponential math determined the case load, it would have theoretically affected nearly everyone in the US.

Almost no one under age 60 had any protective immunity, while only about 1/3 of those over 60 had detectable cross-protective antibodies from a similar earlier outbreak.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html


----------



## StarHalo




----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Meanwhile ....


----------



## turbodog

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Multiplying a number by 1.3 over and over is not taking into account many, many things.
> 
> The entire US population isn't going to have Covid-19 in 5 weeks, sorry.




I said the math was not perfect. I does illustrate how rapidly it spreads later in the infection cycle. So far, for the past 2-3 weeks, the infected rate is pretty darn close to 1.3*the_day_before. But more importantly it shows no signs of slowing down. The slope of the logarithmic graph is pretty darn straight.


----------



## StarHalo

turbodog said:


> I said the math was not perfect. I does illustrate how rapidly it spreads later in the infection cycle. So far, for the past 2-3 weeks, the infected rate is pretty darn close to 1.3*the_day_before. But more importantly it shows no signs of slowing down. The slope of the logarithmic graph is pretty darn straight.



And the chart above reveals that slope to be as straight as Spain's and more straight than Italy's, and that's a big enough red flag that you have to figure out how to explain it to non-math people..


----------



## 5S8Zh5

everyone will understand what is happening through their lens. we all have different backgrounds, different family situations, different financial situations, different employment status. some will focus on this, while others focus on that - but rest assured, everyone is aware and seeking answers.


----------



## ven

bigburly912 said:


> I’d have walked away if she couldn’t produce an ID
> 
> 
> I. Shaved. My. Beard. I am no long bigburly. I’m big not so much burly. : (




Sorry, but if your just big, we need proof(have to post a pic of before and after please):twothumbs

My stubble is grey going white! Darn that up hill paper round.


----------



## ven

Sorry to hear hooked on fenix, stay strong brother. Sometimes the simple things like coming on CPF and talking/posting helps. Not always with the worry, but to get things off your chest. Which ever way we look at it, we are all(or soon will be) effected by this. Is there anyway you can order through amazon or reliable sources for some supplements. Just a thought as i know its not easy. Maybe members can throw up ideas or places to get specifics.

NY is getting it real bad right now, thoughts with all you guys there right now. Stay in ,stay away 2m, stay strong guys .


----------



## ven

wacbzz said:


> Thank you Ven - and others that have weighed in - for the info. I’m going to have to do some CPF searching on these “homemade” versions. This seems like an important piece of kit to own - especially if it can charge up other items.




Your welcome, honestly i would not over think too much . Just narrow down to 2 or 3 and check some tube video's out. Actually see them in action over someone writing about. If you can get say 3 starts off a charge, it should be more than adequate. After all, if you need to use it the once, signs there you could be due a battery. Use it twice,, its defo time to replace it. 

If its a complex car, dont want to reprogram all your settings and radio etc etc. It can be hooked up to retain voltage, so super useful for that to. 

Good luck with your search, let me know on what you decide or go home made. 

Stay safe cheers ven


----------



## bykfixer

Looking at the death clock, it looks really bad. Looking at the total number, sure it looks bad. 

But looking at the acceleration rate, even in New York where it doubled daily at first you can see the rate is slowing down already. If you look at some places its hardly moving up at all since the pockets of cases have largely been isolated. To really guage the spread requires looking at several things and discerning what they mean. 

If you live in a big city like Philly or Baltimore your chances of getting it are astromically greater than say Bismark North Dakota or Missloula Montana. It's all about perspective and reality. So yeah if you live in Miami you should be nervous. But if you live anywhere in Delaware your life is more than likely not going to be affected other than this panic thing everybody is on right now. 

The sky is falling in some places, sure but not everywhere.

Just keep washing your hands with soap and chances are you'll avoid the flu while all this is taking place. Yeah, that old thing? Pfft, only 30 million Americans got that this year and it's only killed 41,000 this year so what. They got a shot for that one, right?


----------



## RetroTechie

5S8Zh5 said:


> (..) but rest assured, everyone is aware and seeking answers.


Sorry to say, but no the general population does NOT understand exponential functions. Maybe somewhat - with a calculator in hand. But NOT from an intuitive level ("gut feeling").

As a nice illustration, I like this talk by a professor named Al Bartlett: Arithmetic, Population and Energy. (kind of a lengthy talk, if you're in a hurry skip to the 22min mark). Summary:

* Doubling time = 70 divided by growth percentage. 10% growth per year = a doubling every 7 years. 30% growth per day = doubling time less than 2.5 days.
* At 11:58, very few people realise there's a problem.
* Finding large, previously unkown reserves does not fix the problem, and buys you almost NO extra time. In this context, that would apply to things like intensive care beds, face masks & so on. Either you have a # AT HAND that's enough to deal with the peak demand, or it will be inadequate. Those shipments coming in from abroad will be too little, too late.
* Even many so-called 'experts' can't do basic math. Or don't _want_ to know what it says. Or don't want to bring the bad message to the public. Whatever - check sources & do the math yourself, many experts (and especially politicians!) may be clueless themselves.

In other words: even if you can see the crisis coming for weeks (or even months) ahead, most people will still be caught by surprise when the worst of it hits. Don't expect the public to understand what may happen. Plan for what may (or will) happen regardless.



lion504 said:


> +1, can't eat flashlights or li-ions.


Hmm... don't know about li-ions. But I've read that the goo coming from alkaleaks (or NiMH's?) often consists of potassium hydroxide. And many people are low on their potassium intake.

Note that potassium hydroxide is caustic. Best to neutralize it first using something like hydrochloric acid. Obviously you'd have to get the ratio correct otherwise... never mind. 

When breaking open your li-ions, there's the volatile electrolyte. I'm not aware of any research that shows a correlation between volatile electrolyte intake and positive health outcomes. Therefore best let those vaporise first. Then you'll find some lithium compounds inside. Lithium has very few nutritional or medical uses, so better discard those.

Which brings you to the electrode materials:
* Active carbon: fine carbon particles with a high surface area, perfect for absorbing traces of nasty chemicals. In this case: probably it's already done that. Should be mostly safe to eat though.
* Manganese: a common trace element (metal) that the body needs. The common form (manganese oxide) should be fine for consumption if pure enough.
* Cobalt: needed by the body in tiny amounts. A component of vitamin B12​ which is essential for good health. Amounts & compounds encountered not very suitable for consumption though. So better spread intake of cobalt salts encountered over an extended period.
* Nickel: no biological role known. Some people are allergic to it. So this would need separation from the other metal salts first. :hairpull:

Next there's the separator & various plastic seals. These will be very inert so should pass through the body unchanged. Beware of irregular shaped pieces though, otherwise it may puncture your bowels in some places.

Which leaves the stainless steel metal can. Its nickel content may be an issue, so better seek out li-ions that have low nickel content in their can (this would be magnetic types stainless steel). The iron (>70% or so) could be a welcome addition to most people's diet. But be sure to grind the can into a powder before ingestion. The chromium content is another welcome addition, but at levels well above what the body needs. And difficult to separate from the iron. So better spread consumption of the can over time, to limit you chromium intake to reasonable levels.

Summarized: crack open a li-ion. Let volatile compounds dissipate. Cut plastics into small pieces, grind remainder into a fine powder, and be sure to consume only in small amounts. I'm sure my stock of li-ions is worth a lifetime of mineral supplements! :twothumbs


----------



## trailhunter

What did I wake up to... talking about eating batteries to replenish core nutrients? Lol

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## scout24

Despite the amount of time and effort put into the post, and the presumed accuracy of information, I'm sure (hope) it was tongue in cheek... :nana:


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## Poppy

This morning I took advantage of the "seniors only" shopping hour.
There were only half as many shoppers today than there were five days ago, and although there were still bare spots, bleach, paper towels, and TP. 
But fresh fruits, and vegetables were pretty fully stocked. Plenty of milk, and most dairy products. Eggs were back, and here are the meat units.








I don't know what it will look like at the end of the day, but hopefully, the supply has caught up with demand.

We have to be thankful to the people who are continuing to go to work to stock the shelves as the product comes in.


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## lion504

And the truck drivers, delivery drivers, gas station attendants, garbage crews, etc. Those of us quarantining/isolating are able to because of MANY service sector employees (and thus their families) who are not. I'm grateful for them.


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## Poppy

lion504 said:


> And the truck drivers, delivery drivers, gas station attendants, garbage crews, etc. Those of us quarantining/isolating are able to because of MANY service sector employees (and thus their families) who are not. I'm grateful for them.


Absolutely!
Remember the images of Manhattan when the garbage collectors went on strike?
just google images of
manhattan+garbage+strike

garbage piled up FAST!


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## P_A_S_1

I don't recall a sanitation strike in my lifetime although I see they had one in 68. Technically they can't strike in NYS, the Taylor Law prohibits essential services from labor disruptions under strict penalties. Cops, firefights, sanitation dept, corrections, etc. can't strike, instead they have access to arbitration through a state entity (perb). Now job actions like sick outs and slow down yes, unofficially of course as that would violate Taylor Law. DSNY did one about 10 years ago during a snow storm and what a mess it caused. Days to clear the streets, something very unusual as they're alway tops at keeping the city moving. That 'job action' was the worst I saw garage piled up as they took days to clear the snow before resuming garage pick ups.


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## PartyPete

Today's good news: Wife tested negative after potentially being exposed twice. Also scored a few weeks worth of toilet paper. We don't have to resort to a bidet just yet at least. [emoji106]


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## bykfixer

Peeeeeeeeete!! Good to hear from you. Definitely glad to hear your Mrs isn't sick. 


I remember the garbage strike but thought it was around '73/74. It looks like it was 68 though. Maybe what I remember was the "remember when" stories a few years later. 

A local (renowned) medical center near me has come up with their own covid test with same day results. They say they are ready for a surge if need be. Other facilities say the same. 

Meanwhile the new case numbers nearly double each day in my state. Our numbers are still pretty low but it seems a couple of 'rest' homes are littered with cases. Aside from those we are in great shape. 

I went to a drive thru for a lunch salad and my change was wofting with the wonderful lavender smell of lavender Lysol. Shucks, we should do that pandemic or not as money is pretty dirty generally. I just hope Mrs Fixer doesn't ask "who's perfume is that buster?"


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Peeeeeeeeete!! Good to hear from you. Definitely glad to hear your Mrs isn't sick.
> 
> 
> I remember the garbage strike but thought it was around '73/74. It looks like it was 68 though. Maybe what I remember was the "remember when" stories a few years later.
> 
> A local (renowned) medical center near me has come up with their own covid test with same day results. They say they are ready for a surge if need be. Other facilities say the same.
> 
> Meanwhile the new case numbers nearly double each day in my state. Our numbers are still pretty low but it seems a couple of 'rest' homes are littered with cases. Aside from those we are in great shape.
> 
> I went to a drive thru for a lunch salad and my change was wofting with the wonderful lavender smell of lavender Lysol. Shucks, we should do that pandemic or not as money is pretty dirty generally. *I just hope Mrs Fixer doesn't ask "who's perfume is that buster?"*


Just tell her you got it from "Jake at State Farm"


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## Poppy

I just dropped off a gift for my friend and MD. He met me at the back of the building so that I didn't have to come in. His suggestion.
He was in the office doing virtual visits.
He was a bit agitated... "you know what scares the $hit out of me, is that people are NOT taking this serious enough!" He said, "yesterday I saw a couple out for a jog, just a couple of feet apart, just lolly dogging it, without any care or concern... SIX feet!"

We've been friends for 21 years, and I've never seen him like this. That was concerning.

Please take the precautions everyone has been talking about, and take your vitamins. They DO make a difference.


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## bykfixer

This coming December there is likely going to be a rise in child births as young couples directly violate the policy of social distancing.


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## bigburly912

Starting to see cases pop up down here. Speech therapist that works in the local nursing homes tested positive. : (


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## Dave D

bykfixer said:


> This coming December there is likely going to be a rise in child births as young couples directly violate the policy of social distancing.



Let's just hope that both parents are about to bring them up!


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## ven

Prince Charles tested positive with COVID19, mild symptoms so far. Lets not forget, even if we do get this, it does not mean ventilator and coughing up blood! Most will get mild symptoms , many will get it, feel rough and it will pass. Not even knowing they have had it. Others not so lucky of course. A young healthy 21yr old with no underlying health conditions passed away due to COVID19

I had to do a chemist run, all queueing out side, 2m gaps, 1 in 1 out. Just went with the flow, 30 mins later back at home. Washed hands, carry on. 

More jobs done today, blinds up in the kitchen, painting. Also going to take down that beast of a hedge in the back. It must be 14-15 heck 16 ft tall. So to go with my dewalt bits n bobs, a chainsaw with amazon due in tomorrow. Of course after ordering, i then realised PPE and chain oil!!!! spends never ends.

So next job whilst sun out organised, at this rate i will be twiddling my thumbs next week with nothing left to do. Well other than so far returning to work next Wednesday!


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## harro

Aus update. We are certainly on the upward trend of that exponential curve at present, a bit worrying. Nearly all state borders are closed to non essential travel and services/goods movement. While most people are aware of, and are practicing social distancing, and complying with closures and self isolation, there is still that component who believe none of this situation applies to them. On a positive note, panic buying at supermarkets has settled somewhat, and if you are early enough on any given day, you will probably get what you are shopping for, even TP. We are still supporting the local butcher and baker and fresh fruit/vegetable merchant and will continue to do so. Clubs, pubs, eateries, venues, gyms, tattooists, massage, health spas, beauty parlours and so on, all closed. Police about to get extraordinary powers to help enforce closures. State of emergency and disaster declared in Victoria, but not too sure about other states on that one. General outlook is remaining upbeat.


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## RetroTechie

Poppy said:


> He was a bit agitated... "you know what scares the $hit out of me, is that people are NOT taking this serious enough!"


_Many_ Dutch people were annoyed upon seeing this video: Crowds at the Hague open-air market despite Corona measures

Many open-air markets like this are suspended, some not. Argument being it lowers the pressure on supermarkets, and in the open there's more room for people to keep their distance. Now in above vid, check the older man in his cart - some lung problem? Could not find ANYONE to do his shopping for him? Or near the end - mom/pop just takes their kid with them like always. Not a care in the world... :scowl:

Wouldn't surprise me if this single event puts several extra people in their grave. Mayor's response: "people can't keep their distance? I have no choice then - market closed!"

It's idiots like the people in above video that lengthen and worsen the pain for EVERYONE. Including themselves.

As for couples: if I were living under the same roof with girlfriend/wife, I would _not_ keep my distance from that partner for months on end. Same with kids in a family. So joggers like the above wouldn't bother me if indeed they are a couple (same household), not just loose friends. Government policy is simple here: if any member from a household shows symptoms of flu or Corona, _entire household_ stays home in quarantine. So in terms of risks taken / contacts, entire household is regarded as a 'single person'. Same policy goes for people meeting on the street. Several people from same household: their choice. Between strangers / neighbours etc: keep your distance. Bigger groups not allowed, period (and fines are coming!).

Generally the Dutch are doing this fine, btw - empty streets everywhere. For non-food shops there's little point in staying open as customers are staying away. So @ this point the government might as well order those shops closed too. And there's some signs the 'lockdown' is beginning to take effect. But it will be interesting to see how well people stick to it in the weeks ahead. Let alone months...


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## trailhunter

bykfixer said:


> This coming December there is likely going to be a rise in child births as young couples directly violate the policy of social distancing.


This would be incredible irresponsible, only those who are making babies right are just animals. I would never want to bring a child to this earth with the uncertainties humanity is going through.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Chauncey Gardiner

trailhunter said:


> This would be incredible irresponsible, only those who are making babies right are just animals. I would never want to bring a child to this earth with the uncertainties humanity is going through.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


 
Today is nine months till Christmas.


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## ven

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Today is nine months till Christmas.




Jesus!!!!


----------



## bykfixer

Mrs Fixer had a craving for butter beans. She stopped by the store and grabbed 2 cans. She said "my gosh the shelves are still so bare". I said "who in the world keeps buying all of that stuff?" as I tried to find a space in the cupboard to put the second can of lima beans. She laughed and said "uh, perhaps you?" 

But seriously we started stocking up back in last November because of the annual flu season. We do it every year and in spring/summer eat what remains. I will admit to having more canned tuna than normal but that's because I love me some canned tuna on weekends.


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## scout24

As has been mentioned repeatedly, please try to stay positive and not dip into the controversial...


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## stfc69

ven said:


> Prince Charles tested positive with COVID19, mild symptoms so far. Lets not forget, even if we do get this, it does not mean ventilator and coughing up blood! Most will get mild symptoms , many will get it, feel rough and it will pass. Not even knowing they have had it. Others not so lucky of course. A young healthy 21yr old with no underlying health conditions passed away due to COVID19
> 
> I had to do a chemist run, all queueing out side, 2m gaps, 1 in 1 out. Just went with the flow, 30 mins later back at home. Washed hands, carry on.
> 
> More jobs done today, blinds up in the kitchen, painting. Also going to take down that beast of a hedge in the back. It must be 14-15 heck 16 ft tall. So to go with my dewalt bits n bobs, a chainsaw with amazon due in tomorrow. Of course after ordering, i then realised PPE and chain oil!!!! spends never ends.
> 
> So next job whilst sun out organised, at this rate i will be twiddling my thumbs next week with nothing left to do. Well other than so far returning to work next Wednesday!



How is the lock down being observed up north then? Hopefully people are starting to get the message now. Being self employed I'm not sure what financial help I'll get, the sooner we get through this the better.

Stay safe :thumbsup:

Oh and I don't think you should be cutting down your hedge at this time of year, nesting birds and all that...


----------



## flashy bazook

One smart idea I read recently, do several virus tests together--so called "pooled" tests.

Nebraska is supposedly already doing this, you put 5 samples into one tube and test them together.

Negative result, boom--you clear 5 people.

You only do individual tests if the pooled test gives a positive result.

That way you multiply several-fold how many tests you can do given a limited number you have available.

And also to mention, some tests can be pooled in even larger numbers (up to 60 I read somewhere, depending on the type of test).

Some mathematician could calculate how many more tests you can do with this method given that actually the fraction of people who have the virus is small.

Reminds me of these brain teasers--you have 8 items, one of which is heavier than the others, how many times do you need to measure them on a balance to track down the item?


----------



## Poppy

flashy bazook said:


> Reminds me of these brain teasers--you have 8 items, one of which is heavier than the others, how many times do you need to measure them on a balance to track down the item?


I count seven answer highlighted in white.


----------



## knucklegary

bykfixer said:


> Mrs Fixer had a craving for butter beans. She stopped by the store and grabbed 2 cans. She said "my gosh the shelves are still so bare". I said "who in the world keeps buying all of that stuff?" as I tried to find a space in the cupboard to put the second can of lima beans. She laughed and said "uh, perhaps you?"
> 
> But seriously we started stocking up back in last November because of the annual flu season. We do it every year and in spring/summer eat what remains. I will admit to having more canned tuna than normal but that's because I love me some canned tuna on weekends.


I regularly blend tuna and egg salad together with plenty chopped onions and garlic. Mix lil mustard mayo on toasted fav bread, bam!

I have noticed many old folks, and young alike, at grocery store keeping a safe 6 ft space away from me!

Hunh, think I've discovered a good covid19 repellent 😄


----------



## trailhunter

knucklegary said:


> I regularly blend tuna and egg salad together with plenty chopped onions and garlic. Mix lil mustard mayo on toasted fav bread, bam!
> 
> I have noticed many old folks, and young alike, at grocery store keeping a safe 6 ft space away from me!
> 
> Hunh, think I've discovered a good covid19 repellent [emoji1]


I can smell you from here [emoji14]

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## ven

stfc69 said:


> How is the lock down being observed up north then? Hopefully people are starting to get the message now. Being self employed I'm not sure what financial help I'll get, the sooner we get through this the better.
> 
> Stay safe :thumbsup:
> 
> Oh and I don't think you should be cutting down your hedge at this time of year, nesting birds and all that...




So far most seem to be getting it, chemist, tesco were strict, 1 person in one side. Separations, people monitoring each isle. There is still a good bit of traffic about, more a sunday morning type than a monday day though. Not seen any groups like i had at weekend. 

In the next day or 2, there will be some hopefully good news for you. Nothing but a nightmare to try and cover everything. Fingers crossed, but by weekend i think you will have some reassuring news.

Yes get that, i love nature, birds etc and care will have to be taken. It may have to be left till september onwards. That will be evaluated later . 

Looks a nice day out, fresh air in the garden, dog walk and no doubt more DIY jobs in house to come. 

500,000 volunteers for NHS is awesome, if i was not in quarantine i would defo be doing more than i can. Once back to work next week, i will hopefully sign up and do more local with delivery, moving people etc. I want to do my bit, just have to wait a week 

Stay safe


----------



## stfc69

ven said:


> So far most seem to be getting it, chemist, tesco were strict, 1 person in one side. Separations, people monitoring each isle. There is still a good bit of traffic about, more a sunday morning type than a monday day though. Not seen any groups like i had at weekend.
> 
> In the next day or 2, there will be some hopefully good news for you. Nothing but a nightmare to try and cover everything. Fingers crossed, but by weekend i think you will have some reassuring news.
> 
> Yes get that, i love nature, birds etc and care will have to be taken. It may have to be left till september onwards. That will be evaluated later .
> 
> Looks a nice day out, fresh air in the garden, dog walk and no doubt more DIY jobs in house to come.
> 
> 500,000 volunteers for NHS is awesome, if i was not in quarantine i would defo be doing more than i can. Once back to work next week, i will hopefully sign up and do more local with delivery, moving people etc. I want to do my bit, just have to wait a week
> 
> Stay safe



Yes I think it's slowly sinking in for most people, unfortunately there will always be some who think they can do what they like... The building site issue needs to be sorted though, especially in London.

I think there will be something announced later today, I don't really want to accept help but this is exceptional circumstances, helping with my rent would be enough.

Yes the weather has been particularly nice the last few days, nice to still be allowed to get out on my bike, unlike some other countries who have more strict rules. A bit of light trimming to your hedge wouldn't hurt though if no signs of birds nesting etc...

It is something I would consider doing, once I've been isolated for two weeks I might do then.

I really shouldn't have come back to this forum as I've been staying away for a while now to save money!


----------



## ven

COVID19 is going to get expensive , trouble is people at home = extra surf time=extra things found to buy= empty wallet! 

I have spent a small fortune on bits of tools for home. But money saved long term. I wanted to do the drive and so glad I did not take all the flags up. I would have been stuck now for stuff to finish. Oh well, what doesn’t get done today, can get done tomorrow and so on. Safety and health first.

Not seen news in last few hours(Madison took over tv watching riverdale for the 10th time!). But something is coming today, be it cash handouts . 
MOTs suspended for 6 months from end of March. (US guys that’s our annual car inspection for safety /emissions). 

I nipped to Tesco for some coffee and bits. Now it’s one in at a time, 2m gaps. The queue was very long.......with 15 people! But a chat, all civilised , just get on with it. Not too much complaining, more a sense of humour . I think this should have been done a month back before more spread. What ever the numbers, x by 10 for a more realistic amount. 

I am still awaiting my 219b Malkoff m61, so it’s helped me not spend any on lights right now. Been using my md2 with OR 219b mule around house. Good job really with all the extra expense I have suffered. Touch wood!!!! The car is running sweet, so I guess that’s one thing. Not needed to use the booster pack and the battery I bought is stored away. So if it does fail, I am good to swap out on the fly!!!! 

Stay safe, stay positive and enjoy our extra family time who are with us. Phone/video call the ones who are not. In these trying times, our mental health is very important. CPF is in there to, like minded awesome folk all in one place. Checking in, reading up and saying :wave: We all have a lot in common, obviously our flashlight passion , but this nasty virus. Together we are stronger, even if we are not physically together!


----------



## idleprocess

Realized today that I've gone no further than ~200m from my house in more than 5 days - something I've pretty much _never_ done before.

The 4 walls of the home office seem to be pressing in a little bit lately. I've finally been motivated to tidy up in here - might even _decorate_ for the first time ever. This weekend I might even make a big push to make the garage inhabitable by _two_ vehicles simultaneously.

The other day I watched a new-to-the-neighborhood-ish young family a couple houses over seemingly _practice_ walking on the sidewalk ... without ever leaving their domicile's extended footprint.


----------



## knucklegary

My county has the first 2 Covid19 cases. Guess it was just a matter of time before the virus made it's way up into my neck of the woods

Meanwhile, in SoCal Spring break students completely irresponsible are having a ball at the beaches, and waiting for their student loans to be absolved by US Congress. Whoopee.. So what else would yah expect!

Hey Ven, speaking of autos.. Have you experience with doing brake jobs? I am replacing front disc pads. I have done a few in the past. This time I'm thinking of using EBC brand, British company. The pad material is arimid fiber used in ballistics mixed with ground up cow hooves pressed into a composite. Good stopping power without damage to rotors like the semi metallic pads, or ceramic also can be hard on brake rotors..

Stay healthy!


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Ground up cow hooves in brake pads? Wow. I learned something today!


----------



## RetroTechie

ven said:


> I want to do my bit, just have to wait a week


No hurry, you are. Thx on behalf of your countrymen. :thumbsup:

Can't remember a time in history when ordinary people could be 'heroes' & save lives by being a couch potato... :laughing: (also see post #369)


----------



## knucklegary

PhotonWrangler said:


> Ground up cow hooves in brake pads? Wow. I learned something today!



EBC calls them "Green" pads.. Cost about three times OEM replacements, available at parts stores. I want to preserve my GM rotors as long as possible. They've become obsolete. Only replacements are made overseas, and I don't like the looks. Steel quality appears like cast from bailing wire

Ven goes far beyond most people. I would be proud to have him as my neighbor and call him my friend!


----------



## turbodog

knucklegary said:


> EBC calls them "Green" pads.. Cost about three times OEM replacements, available at parts stores. I want to preserve my GM rotors as long as possible. They've become obsolete. Only replacements are made overseas, and I don't like the looks. Steel quality appears like cast from bailing wire
> 
> Ven goes far beyond most people. I would be proud to have him as my neighbor and call him my friend!




Can't get rotors at junkyard?

And cow hooves? That's GOT to have an 'odor' when they get hot.


----------



## knucklegary

Everytime I'm at pick'n pull I carry my calipers to check thicknesses, however, most rotors are toasted 

Yep, new Green pads smell exactly like the hooves sold at feed stores for k9 chewies lol


----------



## ven

knucklegary said:


> My county has the first 2 Covid19 cases. Guess it was just a matter of time before the virus made it's way up into my neck of the woods
> 
> Meanwhile, in SoCal Spring break students completely irresponsible are having a ball at the beaches, and waiting for their student loans to be absolved by US Congress. Whoopee.. So what else would yah expect!
> 
> Hey Ven, speaking of autos.. Have you experience with doing brake jobs? I am replacing front disc pads. I have done a few in the past. This time I'm thinking of using EBC brand, British company. The pad material is arimid fiber used in ballistics mixed with ground up cow hooves pressed into a composite. Good stopping power without damage to rotors like the semi metallic pads, or ceramic also can be hard on brake rotors..
> 
> Stay healthy!



Honestly just get OE spec. they will be fine. Green stuff is OK, of course red is too harsh without replacing the discs(or rotors your side). Trouble some times with more aggressive pads, as you say, can wear the discs quicker. Or end up needing some heat to start working better. Also some can create more dust(more cleaning) more noise! . 

So i just use good OE spec pads, usually not much money to. If you need any help shipping from UK give me a shout, not too sure how easy it would be at present though. But when it passes, you know where i am, if you need anything sourcing uK side.

Stay safe to brother, with only 2 cases(known, probably 100 or so minimum), now is the time to act. Not waiting for the guv or a politician to tell you. Keep distances, keep in more than out, bar fresh air walks away from crowds. Have a plan for shopping, as it will become a PITA. Its 1 in at a time in super markets. So imagine say costco right now. Imagine 1 in every 30 seconds, with a 2 metre gap between people(only allowing 1 person per family). That might not happen, but just in case it does, have a plan, be it times to go when quieter etc etc. Just an example of whats happening here.
Pro active wins against reactive!


----------



## ven

idleprocess said:


> Realized today that I've gone no further than ~200m from my house in more than 5 days - something I've pretty much _never_ done before.
> 
> The 4 walls of the home office seem to be pressing in a little bit lately. I've finally been motivated to tidy up in here - might even _decorate_ for the first time ever. This weekend I might even make a big push to make the garage inhabitable by _two_ vehicles simultaneously.
> 
> The other day I watched a new-to-the-neighborhood-ish young family a couple houses over seemingly _practice_ walking on the sidewalk ... without ever leaving their domicile's extended footprint.




Do it! with all this misery around us, turn it around to your advantage. Get those jobs done and out of the way. Helps keep your mind occupied as well, can only be a good thing imho. But i am not a fan of decorating, hate it in fact. But once done, look back, it makes it all worth while. Service the car, maybe do the garden, that job here, that job there. I am trying to get something done each day, even if a little job. Its still one off the ever growing list


----------



## ven

RetroTechie said:


> No hurry, you are. Thx on behalf of your countrymen. :thumbsup:
> 
> Can't remember a time in history when ordinary people could be 'heroes' & save lives by being a couch potato... :laughing: (also see post #369)



I have done a few little bits here and there but need to do more. Once my quarantine is over(cant exactly sign up and do runs /jobs for NHS when getting paid leave due to my little one having symptoms). I will see what i can do, heck even if it is just one shop, one prescription run a week, it all helps. If everyone just did 1 job a week, no one would be stuck!. Every little helps


----------



## bykfixer

We've used KBG pads on our Preludes Gary. They're big with the Japanese sports car crowd. Yellow and red are pretty popular. My tool cart has some EBC stickers on it. 
Red are ceramic if I recall correct. Less dust, less prone to heat build up. 
Yellow were reccomended for heavy use like swirving down a country road faster than you should. We uses the yellow ones. 
Cow hooves? First I'd heard of that. Maybe in the "green" model? Those (I think) are SUV and truck brake pads. 

The load is starting to get heavy on those of us still working as corparate changes by bored folks working from home come up with more bright ideas to increase efficiency (which like Communism is a great idea on paper but not so great when you factor in human tendencies) so we try to keep up with normal duties as we fall a little farther behind each day. It's like driving a snow plow when it keeps snowing massive amounts day after day. You just get weery after a while. 
Everybody has gone "e" everything and they expect to working folks to do their normal job with the addition of electronic communications constantly bombarding all day (and now all into the evening too). Hard to keep things in perspective as more and more folks I usually laugh and joke with are taxed to brittle too. 

It's nice to be living fairly normal right now but my gosh if these idiots at corparate don't stop the constant barage of information citing new policies and procedures there's going to be a mass exodus soon. I'm starting to hear more and more folks saying they too want to work from home too but the roads need fixing so commerce can keep store shelves full. I get calls from young folks whose hours are cut and older folks who can't understand all of this "e" crap being thrown in their lap. Fill out this form. No wait, not that way we changed our minds. Why aren't those forms filled out and on the server yet. Well how about I get the kid you laid off to do it? Oh no we can't afford to keep him around right now. My favorite phrase lately has been "probably not going to happen this week boss man." Or "relax, they'll change it tomorrow so you'll just have to do it again……the new way". Ugh!! 

I can't imagine what it must be like for cops, firemen, doctors and nurses right now. The camels backs are pretty loaded here lately. I called my doctors office today just to thank them for showing up. They were like "uh, yer welcome?" lol because they too are inundated with cold and flu patients afraid that they'll be the latest statistic on the ever rising death clock. 

Meanwhile train after train goes wizzing by my house each day so at least that normalcy continues.

Edit: just saw this at fakebook. Made my eyes water with man tears. 






End edit.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Whenever someone sneezes at our house, the person standing the nearest to them says - "Bless me. It's probably too late for you."


----------



## flashy bazook

Poppy said:


> I count seven answer highlighted in white.



Right, you'd think you need SEVEN measures to find the one heavier item out of eight using a scale.

But, using grouping, you can do it in maximum TWO!

You choose two groups of 3 items each and weigh them against each other.

If they are equal, you know the heavier item is in the remaining 2. So you just weigh them against each other, and find the heavier one. So only TWO weightings in this case.

If they are not equal, you take the group which is heavier. Remember, it has 3 items.

You choose two, and weigh them against each other. If they are equal, you know the last item is the heaviest.

If they are not, you just found the heaviest item. Again, only TWO weightings.

That's the point, by grouping you get big gains in efficiency.

This principle can be used to multiply the number of effective tests against the virus that can be carried out, much beyond the number of individual available tests.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

The U.S. just passed China and Italy for most corona virus cases worldwide (if you can believe the numbers coming out of China). We're number one! (Doesn't that suck?)


----------



## bigburly912

Hooked on Fenix said:


> The U.S. just passed China and Italy for most corona virus cases worldwide (if you can believe the numbers coming out of China). We're number one! (Doesn't that suck?)



Means more people are being tested which is actually a good thing in a way.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> future generations looking back at this thread should do so with wonder and amazement.



Oh, they will..



bykfixer said:


> just saw this at fakebook. Made my eyes water with man tears.



We're still shipping your orders, but the socially distant breaks/lunches are quite drab..


----------



## BuddTX

Hooked on Fenix said:


> The U.S. just passed China and Italy for most corona virus cases worldwide (if you can believe the numbers coming out of China). We're number one! (Doesn't that suck?)


 This is REPORTED cases, two issues with these numbers: 
1. China may not want (for political reasons) to report accurate numbers.
2. Poor and underdeveloped countries as well as isolated areas of any country will not have as many reported cases, as people will not be tested, they will just "be sick".


----------



## ven

StarHalo said:


> Oh, they will..
> 
> 
> 
> We're still shipping your orders, but the socially distant breaks/lunches are quite drab..
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly the same as my place of work, 1 per table, even all sitting the same way(no one facing each other). Distancing is important, we will get through this.
> 
> Agree mr fixer, the health service(police and fire) are the real heroes no question. Last night in the UK at 8pm time, everyone went out front to the door , clapped and cheered country wide for the NHS(and other health care workers). Pretty amazing is an understatement. To show gratitude and thanks for everything they do(under funded, over worked and arguably under paid!). But they get on with it, save lives, heroes they sure are.
> 
> Yes US has over took in numbers, news here reports that NY will or is becoming the epicentre. What you believe and read on the news is another matter. Regarding passing China, well lets be honest, do we believe what we are being told! More people as mr bigburly said being tested will be one part of the equation.
> 
> Distancing and staying in is the only way for now to prevent the spread. Being far more contagious than flu, mr ven goes out and passes it to 3 people, those 3 pass is to another 3(9) those 9 another 3(27). It does not take long to get to 1000's, then 10,000's and so on. The problem, mr ven does not know he has it til its too late. So mr ven stays at home, mr ven keeps distance when he goes shopping. Mr ven washes his hands before touching face( vape). Hopefully mr ven will do his bit to save lives.
> 
> Stay safe CPF family.


----------



## RetroTechie

BuddTX said:


> This is REPORTED cases, two issues with these numbers:
> 1. China may not want (for political reasons) to report accurate numbers.
> 2. Poor and underdeveloped countries as well as isolated areas of any country will not have as many reported cases, as people will not be tested, they will just "be sick".


There's just 1 relevant number: deaths. More importantly: # of deaths per million inhabitants. This number reflects the social impact.

It lags several weeks behind new infections (people are quick to be infected, but may take a long time to die). It may swing up or down each day. But ultimately, deaths is what counts. If a country has many people in hospital or ICU, but has enough of those ICU beds & manages to keep patients alive, it's doing well. Likewise if there's many deaths, you can't cover that up. Mass graves can be seen from space (see eg.: Iran), 100k+ people disappearing from their social circles would NOT go unnoticed no matter what country. Economic or political fallout will centre around families that lost loved ones. Not families that had some members in hospital for 3..4 weeks which then recovered & went back to work.

(New) infections is useful to make predictions about where that "deaths" number may be several weeks from now. And how many hospital beds / respirators / personnel will be needed. But it's the deaths # that matters. Note that many deaths might have occurred anyway - the Coronavirus is just quicker to push patients over the edge & have their death attributed to the virus rather than other causes.


----------



## bykfixer

New York state cases has passed Iran and is gaining on Germany. Yeah, it's by far the epicenter. 

For those watching the US death clock keep your eyes on Louisianna. For the world clock Iran is still the one leading the pack.


----------



## Dave D

bykfixer said:


> For the world clock Iran is still the one leading the pack.



What are the figures for Iran to put them as leading the pack? Italy has 80,000+ cases with 8200+ deaths and Spain has 64,000+ cases with 4850+ deaths. The only figures that I can find for Iran show 32,000+ cases with 2378 deaths.


----------



## RBR

Will be on short hours for at least two weeks soon...:duh2:


----------



## bykfixer

Yeah Dave I've no idea what I was looking at. It looks like more of the sky is falling in Spain right now.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Looks like things are getting worse. There were 100 deaths in New York in the last 24 hours. This is starting to affect our critical infrastructure. Some Amazon employees have corona virus now. I heard it's delaying shipments by as much as a month. The California DMV is shut down and is switching to virtual appointments. A water desalinization plant in San Diego county that provides 10% of our water has employees camped out and isolated at the site so they don't get sick. I wonder how many others are taking similar precautions so we don't lose power, cable, internet, water, gas, etc. This could get bad. Congress is trying to run government with a skeleton crew to limit exposure to the virus. Truckers delivering our food and supplies are having a hard time finding anywhere to eat as sit down restaurants are closed and big rigs don't fit in drive-thrus. Lupus patients are finding out they can't get their prescription refilled as their medication is being stockpiled to fight corona virus. Let's hope and pray that this is over soon.


----------



## markr6

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Truckers delivering our food and supplies are having a hard time finding anywhere to eat as sit down restaurants are closed and big rigs don't fit in drive-thrus.



I've been seeing them do take-out like everyone else around here. Or just parking and walking up to the drive-thru. Nothing wrong with that. Even at the banks they just park on the shoulder or lot and run up the the teller station to get cash since lobbies are closed.

Living at work wouldn't be fun. Hopefully the water plant employees get a little bonus or something more than a high-five for their work!

No surprise about the Amazon delays. If my local grocery store can't get some things in stock, I wouldn't expect Amazon, who ships all over the country, to be immune. Especially with everyone buying online now for convenience, to stay inside, and to simply be able to shop from dozens of sellers at once vs. running around town. They bust their butt to get things to me in time and deliver 99.9% of the time, so I'm not even thinking about a partial refund on my membership (you know some people will eventually bring it up)


----------



## ven

Little late in the day, but Boris our UK prime minister has tested positive along with the health secretary. His symptoms are mild, but his partner is pregnant which of course is a worry. So he is in isolation now for 2 weeks. Unless symptoms get worse.
I wonder if he will get to see what its like for 1000's of UK residents. Wonder if there will be a bed for him, or turned away. Maybe put in a corridor..............Thats what the NHS can be like to cuts, under funding over years and years, ironically by his government. Of course the answer wont be no! Nor would i want it to be. Heck they cant even test people on the front line who could be spreading it further. They dont have enough PPE so more risks. 
Stay at home, protect the NHS, save lives! Yes because of all the cuts, we were under pressure (read strain) before covid-19! Yes it infuriates me no end. 

There are plans a foot, be it the NEC in Birmingham, London, Manchester for temp hospitals/beds. Things are moving, yes, but its all too little too late. Full lock down a month back, they had seen what happened in Italy..........yet chose to go another path.


Just stay in guys unless urgent(food/medicine type ), stay 2m away from others out of the house. All we can do until a vaccine which could be 2 months or 18 months!(hopefully a lot closer to the former). But who knows! Every time i go out and get back, i make sure i dont touch my face and wash hands. I moved some bins in before, off the street, straight away hands washed. Anything.......wash hands! 

Stay safe


----------



## bykfixer

America just passed a bill to send help across the country. Will it halt a major depression across the globe? 
It does toss a life ring to the American economy. 

Meanwhile my governor is scolding young people again today as I type this while he reminds them it's all old people die-ing. Now he is calling for the American government to nationalize companies who make certain items.

Thank you to cops, nurses, doctors, fireman, ems folks, truck drivers, grocery store folks, warehouse workers, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, construction workers, restaraunt workers, ac/heater fixers, lumber jacks, filling station employees, coffee shop workers, and all kinds of other folks who are behind the scenes keeping things as normal as practical right now. 
Hopefully things will be back to normal sooner than later.


----------



## ven

I dont think anything will stop a global depression, heck its not even got fully started yet. Too much worry and uncertainty unless all the main economies keep throwing billions........or trillions at it all. It will bounce back, it has to and it will. Might not be this summer, might not even be this year, but it will!!! 

Its so easy to type and talk on here, but i would be looking at shutting every state (if its possible , be it with army or ?? )to hold in each state to know numbers. To limit the spread further.

I must sound crazy, but anything less than a full lock down...........i just dont know how this will go away anytime soon. By full lock down, a month minimum. Thats a scary thought for sure, but short term misery will promote long term happiness!!!


----------



## Poppy

I'm not an economist, but I think that if all governments just printed up money in similar proportions, we could inflate our way out of the debt, and if all countries across the planet did the same (inflate at the same rate, our international dollar values/trade values would remain the same).


----------



## bykfixer

Poppy, I think part of a currencies value is it's availability. Hence the US government destroys X number of currency when they make new batches. And part is like Avon collectables as in it is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. 

When I was a kid there were still gold and silver certificates in circulation. My brother worked at a gas station and there'd be a celebration whenever a "gold certificate" $20 bill was used to pay for a service. I had a few 1's and 5's silver certificates as a kid along with several $2 bills from before they reprinted those. Where they are today? Got me. 

I just hope the money the US government prints mostly goes to places that need it or will soon. The service industry has been hit pretty hard. The folks who stock cruise ships, the mom & pops diner, the hair care industry, the hot dog vendor at the ball park etc. Yeah, yeah, yeah some will be used to support big business too, but if every airline company shuts down just think of the impact to cargo. Big movie theatre companies and restaraunt chains. 

One thing is for certain, we will talk about Covid-19 for a while after this one. Used to be when strangers met "how about this weather?" Now it's "how about that beer bug thing?"


----------



## ven

Spanish flu was the last time there was a pandemic, 1918!!!!! Lasted 2yrs and infected 500,000,000 people. No one was flying around then either spreading it faster. Death toll quoted, anywhere from 17,000,000 to even 50,000,000+. Thats some scary stats.


----------



## RBR

USA just jumped the 100000-line...


----------



## archimedes

ven said:


> Spanish flu was the last time there was a pandemic, 1918!!!!! ....



There have been several (lesser but still severe) flu pandemics since then ... 1958, 1968, 2009

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/basics/past-pandemics.html


----------



## vadimax

I hope you all know this page: https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6. Had no time to check older posts.

If I understand the disease dynamics in China, what the heck Diamond Princess is?! Their line of new cases is almost flat!

P.S.: Sorry, it is a cruise vessel standing in the ocean. No one lets it in. There are no more people to get sick.


----------



## bigburly912

Diamond princess is a ship


----------



## wacbzz

ven said:


> I must sound crazy, but anything less than a full lock down...........i just dont know how this will go away anytime soon. By full lock down, a month minimum. Thats a scary thought for sure, but short term misery will promote long term happiness!!!



Well, it would for sure accomplish much much more than “hoping and praying...” A deviation from dire consequences most certainly requires real action, not fingers crossed while rocking back and forth while mumbling. 

Frankly, such a total lockdown should have happened weeks ago...


----------



## Empath

Hooked on Fenix,
No doubt many actions by persons and agencies will have to face the considerations of the courts, eventually. The arguments for and against any particular actions will be argued at that time. Now is not the time for taking up those arguments, in this thread, nor on this board. 

Our Underground board has many topical forums that could lend itself to the topic and is fully permitted.

Some of your posts have been removed, along with responding replies.


----------



## turbodog

bykfixer said:


> New York state cases has passed Iran and is gaining on Germany. Yeah, it's by far the epicenter.
> 
> For those watching the US death clock keep your eyes on Louisianna. For the world clock Iran is still the one leading the pack.



Yeah, those fools went ahead w/ mardi gras. They are only 1 state away from me too...


----------



## trailhunter

Cant believe they let Mardi gras happen during these times 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## ven

archimedes said:


> There have been several (lesser but still severe) flu pandemics since then ... 1958, 1968, 2009
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/basics/past-pandemics.html




Thanks for the info, lets hope a vaccine is sooner than later with the covid19. Flights and the amount of world wide, has certainly speeded this up. Stay safe.


----------



## ven

trailhunter said:


> Cant believe they let Mardi gras happen during these times
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



Although no exact proof yet, its possible this virus was circulating as early as January in Europe(no one knew at the time obviously). Game zero! A game of football named so, which took part just before the first case of COVID19. This game they (they as in health specialist/s in Italy) basically called it a biological bomb. This was the 19th Feb, what they believe played a huge part of the spread.

Stay safe guys.


----------



## bykfixer

Realizing that one plague took place a bit over 100 years ago, there seems to be some history repeating. Humans are dumb. I mean we have the ability to reason but if you look back in time we tend to repeat the same mistakes. There are parallels to 1918 out break all over again. One city excersizing caution with another throwing caution to the wind. What's worse is the city leaders had been told since late 2019 it was heading their way. 

Globetrotting back in 1918 was mainly available to the wealthy, recreational speaking. Plenty of big boats left countries loaded with peasants heading for better shores too but what I mean is in 2019/20 globe trotters are a lot more prevalant, which is why so much of the planet has been affected. 

Heck, my ears perked up back before Christmas regarding that virus that was affecting them. We talked about it at our family gathering as in what would it look like by summer in the US. We talked about it my work too. One lad I was training actually posed the question "when will the US get it's first case?" and at that point we probably already had a few but just didn't know it. It's just history repeating.

Now to check the death clock for today………


----------



## Poppy

New York's Governor Cuomo does a daily update. 
I think he is leading the nation in his response to the corona virus.
It is a good listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUTn8n_eg0E

This one dated 3/27/2020 starts about ten minutes in.

In this one he explains that he will close schools for another two weeks.
He explains what is being done to increase treatment capacity.

New York City is considered the epicenter with over 9 million people. New Jersey is just across the river of NYC with a population of 9 million. While NJ is increasing treatment capacity, I think it is lagging behind NY. 

I pray that the people of NJ recognize, that without social distancing, and staying in place, we will be next.
We need to increase treatment capacity, and work at decreasing the rate of infection.

The good news @ 30 minutes, he displays a graph over time, the number of people who have been hospitalized.
The geometric rate is still going to over-run treatment capacity, but the geometric rate is slowing.
Initially hospitalizations doubled every 2.5 days, then every 3 days, and now every 4 days.

Also, I think in this presentation it was stated that there is, on the close horizon, a skin prick test that can be self administered, it will give results in 15 minutes. This could be huge for a number of reasons.

As our friend ven states daily: wash your hands, and maintain your distance!

Stay safe.


----------



## trailhunter

I really enjoy when the cuomo brothers have interviews. They are pretty funny and great sense of humor during these difficult times.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## RetroTechie

ven said:


> Although no exact proof yet, its possible this virus was circulating as early as January in Europe(no one knew at the time obviously). Game zero!


Probably in other countries too. The slow-burning fuse @ the start of the exponential curve. Probably some deaths attributed to other causes, too. And then @ some point, the numbers / severity of cases rises above the noise floor, and alarm bells go off.

In the NL it was carnival related parties (mid/late febr). Many of the earlier patients' infections have been traced back to such a party. And the area currently hardest hit is #1 carnival heartland.



bykfixer said:


> Globetrotting back in 1918 was mainly available to the wealthy, recreational speaking. Plenty of big boats left countries loaded with peasants heading for better shores too but what I mean is in 2019/20 globe trotters are a lot more prevalant, which is why so much of the planet has been affected.


You don't need many globe trotters. Just a few to carry disease from one population centre to another. And air travel speeds up the process so that countries on the receiving end have less time to react. In 1918 that was ships mostly, that take 3 weeks to cross the pond. Today people hop on a plane. In that sense there's really just 3 factors different between 1918 & now: a) the speed of events, b) the overall population density, and c) the capabilities of our medical systems. Well you might add the internet.

Some other interesting tidbits:
In the NL about 80% of patients on IC were found to be overweight. Seems like there is _some_ relation between overweight and the chance of developing serious symptoms. Might be as simple as heaving trouble to push up a heavier chest while breathing. Maybe the overweight-diabetes link. Maybe just overall health. Or some combination thereof. I suspect the UK, US and Mexico are in for a wild ride in the months ahead. As they all share an overweight (or even obese) population, AND a government that acted late. Not to mention these countries' health systems. Don't be surprised if the epicentre of the pandemic shifts from Italy / Spain to those countries.
Also: in Belgium, a cat got sick from COVID-19. Let the speculation begin about how likely human -> cat and cat -> human transmission is. :laughing: Same for dogs, rabbits, rats, mice, pigs, cows, horses, goats, ...


----------



## RedLED

Retro, 

In 1918, ships did not take three weeks to cross the Atlantic!


----------



## ven

Today i had to run out for some dog food(not literally........burger that for a game of soldiers!). It was also a little excuse to top up the car battery and get everything running(cars dont seem to like being sat for too long and i still await my battery charger). Anyway, probably taking 5 or 6 miles each way to the unit. Frozen supplies topped up, treats topped up and some sacks of minced tripe.......yum yum!. The roads where quiet, but still traffic about, odd people walking their dog or jogging alone. I just hope everyone can keep to the measures. We are all in it together, we are as good as the weakest link.........which does worry me.

Even though the same measures as our supermarkets, none existent in some smaller outlets, common sense prevailed. The 3 or 4 in the shop kept our distance(even without the tape and X marked here and X marked there).

It was also good to get out(not a random drive for no reason, one for pet food and who i have used for ages, supporting local business which is also important where possible). It gives a change of scenery, but its not too hard for me anyway. My days of partying at weekend are long gone. Other than closed shops for none essentials, quieter roads(thats a great thing), its pretty much no different other than restrictions shopping or going out as a family. 

Needless to say, soon as i got in i washed hands thoroughly, put food away in freezer, washed hands thoroughly. I went out into street to check on the other recycle bins that were not emptied yesterday, still not today....yet. Back in, you guessed it........washed hands!!! 

Stay safe my fellow CPF family, what ever state your living in. NY right now even more so, we will all come through this. But regardless of country, we all have to work together to make it sooner than later. Any high populated city is or has the potential to be a hot spot. NY for now, but LA or Washington or ??? all are at the same risk. If not this week, next, or week after etc. 

From reading on stats and findings , it seems the older males are more at risk with 60-70% compared to women. Although children are at risk, these are much less and tend to have milder symptoms. Cats, dogs (pets) low risk of catching or passing on covid19

From the WHO
The good news is, current advice from the World Health Organisation and British Veterinary Association is that there’s no evidence that pets can be a source of infection or that they can become sick from COVID-19.


----------



## ven

RedLED said:


> Retro,
> 
> In 1918, ships did not take three weeks to cross the Atlantic!




Maybe 3 months weather dependant .


----------



## wacbzz

ven said:


> From the WHO
> The good news is, current advice from the World Health Organisation and British Veterinary Association is that there’s no evidence that pets can be a source of infection or that they can become sick from COVID-19.



This is just not true...

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-first-case-human-to-dog-transmission.html

And

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-hong-kong-tests-positive-for-covid-19-virus


Truth does matter. While it’s “only two” cases, the WHO simply cannot say there’s “no evidence” that pets can get infected with COVID-19.


----------



## bigburly912

Dogs have carried types of Coronavirus forever. There’s no reason to think they wouldn’t carry this one. The first vaccines that puppies get include Coronavirus.


----------



## Poppy

http://blogs.denverpost.com/titanic/2012/03/26/great-race-dominance-atlantic/



> If you read contemporary accounts of the Titanic disaster – you get the impression that the ship was built to smash the transatlantic speed record and met with disaster as a result of that need for speed.This is simply not the case. The White Star Line had long surrendered the Blue Riband award for the fastest Atlantic crossing – an honor the line had last captured in *August 1891 when the Teutonic made the westbound crossing in 5 days, 16 hours, 31 minutes at a top speed of 20.35 knots.*
> Twenty years later, the Titanic’s maximum speed was 23 knots, which was not at all competitive. The Cunard Line’s Mauretania had captured the Blue Ribband in Sept. 1909 with a top speed of 26 knots.
> In reality, by the time the White Star Line contracted the Harland and Wolff Shipyard to build Olympic and Titanic, the line was fighting for dominance in another race – the race to offer the most luxurious accommodations the world have ever seen.



I'm guessing that 3 months was by sail-boat.
In 1918 we had steam ships.
WWI started when? 1917?


----------



## nbp

wacbzz said:


> This is just not true...
> 
> https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-first-case-human-to-dog-transmission.html
> 
> And
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-hong-kong-tests-positive-for-covid-19-virus
> 
> 
> Truth does matter. While it’s “only two” cases, the WHO simply cannot say there’s “no evidence” that pets can get infected with COVID-19.



He didn’t say they couldn’t get infected. He said there isn’t evidence they will get sick or pass it to humans, which is exactly what both the articles you linked stated as well.


----------



## bykfixer

Perhaps they weren't so crazy afterall???


----------



## RedLED

In 1918, ships could cross in a very short time of a just few days. Steam powered vessels could cruise very fast.


----------



## ven

wacbzz said:


> This is just not true...
> 
> https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-first-case-human-to-dog-transmission.html
> 
> And
> 
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...n-hong-kong-tests-positive-for-covid-19-virus
> 
> 
> Truth does matter. While it’s “only two” cases, the WHO simply cannot say there’s “no evidence” that pets can get infected with COVID-19.




Seriously? Have you actually read your links?

You have just linked 2 stories that say
“No positive results were obtained from the mixed-breed dog and neither dog has shown any signs of disease,” it said. “The department will continue to closely monitor both dogs and conduct repeated tests on the animals.”




*First dog with confirmed coronavirus infection has died — but we don't know if it was because of the virus.*

The dog did not develop symptoms of illness while infected, and had been allowed to return home after finally testing negative for the virus.


----------



## ven

RedLED said:


> In 1918, ships could cross in a very short time of a just few days. Steam powered vessels could cruise very fast.



Well i never knew that, UK to NY by ship , i found anything up to 14 weeks weather dependent.


----------



## Dave D

With the 1918 flu outbreak being referred to, below is an informative video about it.


----------



## Modernflame

I watched that YouTube video about 1918 just the other day. Fortunately, that type of deadly mutation among viruses is quite rare, although it behooves us to stamp this thing out as soon as possible to help mitigate that risk.


----------



## ven

Thats an eye opener Dave, what really sticks is why its called the Spanish flu. Not because it started there, or most deaths. It just appeared that way, as other country governments were keeping it quiet and not allowing reports. Where as Spain, they had free press and reported everything. Which of course made it look like they had it far worse than other countries.

I am sure in time, people will look back at all the mistakes, not taking serious or not acting fast enough. I know here in the UK we delayed, even though we hard warnings from italy. Only time will tell .........

Stay safe all.


----------



## ven

Modernflame said:


> I watched that YouTube video about 1918 just the other day. Fortunately, that type of deadly mutation among viruses is quite rare, although it behooves us to stamp this thing out as soon as possible to help mitigate that risk.



Yes thankfully, the one in 2018 was even deadlier, with a 75% death rate. Luckily so far, it can not be transmitted from human to human. But if it mutates and can be transmittd, thats when we are in real trouble. But as a quote from that video, its not if, its when! 

Food for thought for sure.


----------



## wacbzz

nbp said:


> He didn’t say they couldn’t get infected. He said there isn’t evidence they will get sick or pass it to humans, which is exactly what both the articles you linked stated as well.



My bad. I missed that day in school where it was explained that “infected” doesn’t mean “sick.”

And it wasn’t “he” I was referencing. It was the WHO that I quoted.

Alternative facts, baby.


----------



## knucklegary

I would not take WHO as a last word on anything


----------



## nbp

wacbzz said:


> My bad. I missed that day in school where it was explained that “infected” doesn’t mean “sick.”
> 
> And it wasn’t “he” I was referencing. It was the WHO that I quoted.
> 
> Alternative facts, baby.



Lots of people are testing positive for the virus but are also asymptomatic. So yes, infected and sick are different. The animal may be carrying the virus or “infected” but not demonstrably “sick” nor capable of passing it on to to other animals or people. Words mean things.


----------



## wacbzz

“Asymptomatic” doesn’t mean you aren’t affected - which is, of course, exactly how “infected” and “sick” are the same.

Even further, let’s use the common sense test here nbp...your neighbor tests positive (ie, is “infected”) for COVID-19 but is, to use your term, “asymptomatic.” Would you still hang out with that person because they aren’t “sick?”

Please stop. The WHO (whom I quoted, remember?) stated that animals can’t get sick from COVID-19. I showed two examples of two dogs affected with COVID-19. I never said they could transfer it to humans or anything else remotely close to that. I just stated basic fact. 

Don't get mad because the real world doesn’t use the word “sick” the way you want them to.


----------



## ven

General comment and not directed at anyone.

I dont take any word for gospel, but i would believe the world health organisation before a live science report that even contradicts its head line.

I am not posting fact, nor am i saying its fact. All i did, was quote the WHO on a report which was early March. Of course things/reports/info will change over time as we learn more. We are in this together! We can only go off what bits of info/reports we find and read up on. 

Kind regards


----------



## ven

If anyone is interested, the info regarding pets, be it dogs, cats, horses. 
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/coronav...ith-animals#general-advice-for-all-cat-owners

For those who are not bothered about reading, its basically about making provisions if you have symptoms. To make sure you wash your hands prior and after. Vet advice, nothing so far about your dog, cat, elephant! catching covid-19. 

There is no evidence that humans to cats to humans of covid19. If there was, we would know and it would be headline news!!!! That is fact.


----------



## nbp

wacbzz said:


> “Asymptomatic” doesn’t mean you aren’t affected - which is, of course, exactly how “infected” and “sick” are the same.
> 
> Even further, let’s use the common sense test here nbp...your neighbor tests positive (ie, is “infected”) for COVID-19 but is, to use your term, “asymptomatic.” Would you still hang out with that person because they aren’t “sick?”
> 
> Please stop. The WHO (whom I quoted, remember?) stated that animals can’t get sick from COVID-19. I showed two examples of two dogs affected with COVID-19. I never said they could transfer it to humans or anything else remotely close to that. I just stated basic fact.
> 
> Don't get mad because the real world doesn’t use the word “sick” the way you want them to.



The difference is that infected but asymptomatic humans can still pass on the disease to me so no I would obviously would not hang out with them. If an animal is infected but neither suffering any symptoms nor contagious to other animals or to humans (so far this seems to be the case, per your links) then pet owners do not need to immediately panic that they are going to get sick from their animals. 

As you stated, common sense and reading comprehension is important and many people have neither. Instead of reading and understanding they will simply see the headline that a dog was infected with COVID19 and immediately assume they are going to get it from their animal if an infected person pets it or something. This isn’t supported by evidence. 

We’re on the same team here, I think... No one said the animal couldn’t carry the virus, only that they do not seem to pose a threat to humans and are unlikely to suffer from the disease. That is why I differentiated between infected and sick. Or perhaps “infected” vs. “infectious” would have been a better choice of words on my part.


----------



## ven

:grouphug:...........in fact guys, lets not hug this one outlovecpf


----------



## ven

I just asked the pup...............


----------



## Dave D

Times ahead are going to be stressful for folk, job security, finances, relationships and what with 24/7 News channels and all the rubbish shared on social media some are people going to find it difficult.

Make some time for yourselves each day to chill, there are loads of interesting videos on youtube etc on all manor of subjects.

I personally like to chill to aerial footage of pleasant scenery, it reminds me of my years on Air Support!

For example!


----------



## Poppy

Great idea!

I'm a fan of the Dual Survivor, or Survivorman types of shows.
Currently Les Stroud is doing a series of less stressful (moments of LOL) videos to help cope.





https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Survivorman....+Covid+1-9+DAY+1

I think he is up to day three.


----------



## bigburly912

ven said:


> :grouphug:...........in fact guys, lets not hug this one outlovecpf



:elbow bump: : D


----------



## bykfixer

My state started doing a graph that shows the real trend to see if quarentine and halted social gatherings works. 





You can see it working. 
Instead of a graph that keeps climbing it shows the number of added cases to the number from the day before. Example was a day where cases known was 2. Next day 2 more cases were known so you don't see a number on the graph. Total cases was 4. Next day it was the same number of 2 plus 1 so instead of 4 more added it was 5 more. Total of 9 so far. Next day it was 5 more added plus 5 more. Total of 10 more added so the total cases was up to 19.

So the other day only 54 additional were added from the total added the day before. The day before that was 70, with 95 the day before that. And that is with testing being dractically increased. So as the number of new known cases continues to rise, the accelaration _rate _has been reduced. Considering (as some have said) one person can give it to up to *45 people *so seeing the acceleration rate slow is great news. 

Nearly 10k people showing symptoms have been tested with less than 10% confirmed to have Covid-19. We are seeing it spread across the land mass from county to county but that is partly due to the number of people being tested. Those people are quickly isolated so the numbers don't rise so quickly. The social distancing thing is clearly working. And increased testing will be showing it works too very soon.


----------



## ven

If its not flashlight , RC cars, G shocks and tools, now i need a decent drone!! 

Just want to thank you Dave, from the heart of my bottom, my wallet thanks you :nana:


----------



## ven

bykfixer said:


> My state started doing a graph that shows the real trend to see if quarentine and halted social gatherings works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see it working.
> Instead of a graph that keeps climbing it shows the number of added cases to the number from the day before. Example was a day where cases known was 2. Next day 2 more cases were known so you don't see a number on the graph. Total cases was 4. Next day it was the same number of 2 plus 1 more. Total of 5 so far. Next day it was 5 more added plus 5 more. Total of 10 more added so the total cases was up to 15.
> 
> So the other day 110 new cases were added, which was 54 more added to the number of new cases from the day before, nearly doubling the number of new cases known each day. So as the number of new known cases continues to rise, the accelaration _rate _has been reduced. Considering (as some have said) one person can give it to up to *45 people *so seeing the acceleration rate slow is great news.
> 
> Nearly 10k people showing symptoms have been tested with less than 10% confirmed to have Covid-19. We are seeing it spread across the land mass from county to county but that is partly due to the number of people being tested. Those people are quickly isolated so the numbers don't rise so quickly. The social distancing thing is clearly working. And increased testing will be showing it works too very soon.




Trouble we have in the UK, for everyone person tested, how many have it not tested. Heck even our front line NHS cant get tested until recently.........thats not going to happen fast. So you have a doc/nurse infected(she does not know), so it carries on.

I can see why the distance, i can see the stay at home. It should just have happened weeks back . Symptoms, test , isolate, track contacts, isolate, repeat. Its well past all that now Mike, but this action weeks, month/s back would have helped contain. So easy i know to look at hindsight, but we had the facts from other countries. The UK had warnings from medial experts.........yet we dont act until recent. 

All we can do is our small part, stay home, keep distance, dont travel unless priority. In UK we are not(advised ) to even visit family, close family etc makes no odds. Stay home! I am doing that part, i just hope everyone else can. 

It will keep climbing (exponential ) , once under control and numbers start to lower daily, then we know we are gaining control. For this, we all have to play our part. 

Just too add(and i dont like negative) there are unfortunate deaths with younger and people with no underlining health conditions. Take no chances, even if we get mild symptoms, your grandpa might not! It is a small % of the figures, but its happening. Most get mild symptoms, stay safe, stay in, stay away!


----------



## ven

On a serious note, anyone at home and a member has symptoms. There are measure we can take, be it adult or child


----------



## LGT

I feel so bad for those People that die alone, and the family members that can’t be by their side. And wonder if it will come into my life.


----------



## ven

LGT said:


> I feel so bad for those People that die alone, and the family members that can’t be by their side. And wonder if it will come into my life.




Me too, it makes me feel useless being honest. But staying at home does save lives. So by doing this, keeping distances, all helps our health services save lives.

Even if you have a family, kids, grand kids. Unfortunately your still alone. Thats the one common part with this. Your isolated, your in ICU, your alone. But you still have far more chance of winning than not!

No, stay safe LGT together we can all help it stay out of our lives.


----------



## bykfixer

Ven, I was a caretaker for my dad for a decade and as time wore on he got weaker. With a home full of kids we really had to be vigilant about the cold and flu season. For years we treated life like we were taking measures for avoiding a normal outbreak. During that period famous comedian Bernie Mac died from flu complications. As hard as we tried to avoid contaminating old pop he insisted on living his life like normal. Crowded restaraunts used to scare the crap out of me, but not him. As fate would have it a nurse came over one day with a mild cold and a month later my pop was gone. 

That was 9 years ago but my family has not forgotten that period. My sister lives near a graveyard where folks in a small isolated community were nearly wiped out by the Spanish flu. It was written that nearly 2/3 of the community did not make it through one awful winter. At a project I worked at in 2019 there was a "Spanish flu" graveyard. So at Christmas we joked about this thing that was seemingly born in Wuhan and how it could be history repeating a bit over 100 years later. And how we are powerless to stop it if the population does not take it serious. Recent history shows that again most of society did not take it serious until it was spreading like a brush fire on the prarie in Nebraska. 

My family has been isolated except for limited exposures at work. But we've done that for years during the winter anyway. Only this year it includes Spring time too. 

So what am I doing for fun besides geeking out on a virus? Well I joined a group buy for M61NLLLL's and added another pair of cool skateboard shoes to the closet.


----------



## ven

If anyone has their *beep* under control, its mr fixer, no question.

Love it!!! I am waiting on some trainers, certainly wont get your approval though.......so shall remain nameless, yet give it away by that fact haha.

G shocks and dewalts seem to be helping me keep sane. My 3sp impact and 3sp drills are in work, so home use(boy have they come in handy on the last week or so)




Then of course my big boy toy,





Growing up grows old, being a kid is just too much fun!

Reg Malkoff, i am still waiting for my 219b v3, hoping now this year! worth the wait i am sure.

Its tough, tough times and more ahead no doubt there. So anyway we can keep sane, be it flashlights, G shocks, sneakers, who cares. Lets keep sane, keep spending on bits we enjoy. Life is too short as it is. Just enjoy what we enjoy to keep us entertained. Its healthy for the mind, maybe not the wallet. 

:thumbsup:


----------



## knucklegary

^ So that's a rear shot of the folding heel.. Very Cool!:rock:

Ven, is your 219b coming from Illumin supply? How long u been waiting?


----------



## bykfixer

They are "authentic pro" Gary. A new release. 
They also have a solid black version.


----------



## ven

knucklegary said:


> ^ So that's a rear shot of the folding heel.. Very Cool!:rock:
> 
> Ven, is your 219b coming from Illumin supply? How long u been waiting?



Hi Gary, hope your good. It was ordered a while back, maybe Feb, early Feb time. I have spoke to Craig, maybe 2 weeks or so back. He was about ready to send off some LEDs to Gene. So not sure when, or where up to. Obviously now with the present circumstances, i wont be holding my breath for a spring delivery.


----------



## knucklegary

Ven, all good here so far. Covid19 cases are growing daily in my area, from 2 cases to 8 over night. Last report was 14 people tested positive today.

I am hopeful Craig and his family is safe. As I remember reading his last FB posts he seemed to be on top of keeping his shop sterile. San Jose area is a hot spot for the virus, and his shop is right in the epicenter

We all pray by late Spring we've seen the worse of this crummy virus!


----------



## knucklegary

Byk, Like the material, stealth checkers.. I checked them out online Vans. As soon as things get back to normal I'll be ordering a pair 👍


----------



## trailhunter

Spent the past couple days building a disinfection box for my buddies girlfriend that is a doctor. They are having them reuse their masks so I built this box so she can disinfect them when needed.








Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Poppy

knucklegary said:


> Ven, all good here so far. Covid19 cases are growing daily in my area, from 2 cases to 8 over night. Last report was 14 people tested positive today.
> 
> I am hopeful Craig and his family is safe. As I remember reading his last FB posts he seemed to be on top of keeping his shop sterile. San Jose area is a hot spot for the virus, and his shop is right in the epicenter
> 
> We all pray by late Spring we've seen the worse of this crummy virus!


Lest we need to remind ourselves that - people are stupid!
2-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1024-2048....

People need to know that if it takes 3 days to 15 days to show symptoms and another to get the test, and another 3 days to 5 days to get results, if everybody showed symptoms in just three days, we are already 7 days behind the curve! That means if there were two, there are 510 to 2048 not yet reported! 

I don't want to be negative, but if you have someone crowding your space make sure you tell them to "Back OFF!" 
Fortunately I'm in the suburbs, and can shop during senior's hours, and as a group we have been respectful of maintaining our distance. If I were in a situation where people were standing in line and didn't maintain discipline, I would immediately take control and have people space out.

That's me.
Poppy.
PS... I have washed my hands more this week than I have in the previous two months.

ven keep up the vigilance.


----------



## Poppy

trailhunter said:


> Spent the past couple days building a disinfection box for my buddies girlfriend that is a doctor. They are having them reuse their masks so I built this box so she can disinfect them when needed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


trailhunter,
that is awesume.
can you leave a spec sheet?
Did you do research to determine how much light was needed, and how long it needs to run? 
OR just put it together and hope that it is enough? I am sure that anything is better than nothing.


----------



## knucklegary

Hey Poppy

I can shop those ridiculous grocery store hours (6-8am) for 65-up old farts.. During my last early shopping session it was a 70yr old gal who damn near knocked me on my a$$ to get 10lb bag of potatoes. My old skool Vans almost left a permanent impression in her tail. 
It is sometimes hard to keep a safe distance while in the produce isle. Tho, i can still run pretty fast for an old dude!


----------



## Poppy

WOW! You got me thinking.

Dentists use an autoclave to sterilize.

autoclave wikipedia
Many autoclaves are used to sterilize equipment and supplies by subjecting them to pressurized saturated steam at *121 °C* (*250 °F*) for around 15–20 minutes depending on the size of the load and the contents The autoclave was invented by Charles Chamberland in 1884, although a precursor known as the steam digester was ...

pressure cooker

250 °F



In a sealed pressure cooker, the *boiling point* of water increases as the pressure rises, resulting in superheated water. At a pressure of 1 bar or ~15 psi (pounds per square inch) above the existing atmospheric pressure, water in a pressure cooker can reach a temperature of up to *121 °C* (*250 °F*).


----------



## bykfixer

Awesome Trail Hunter!! Bravo!! 

A couple years back one of my dogs needed a bionic knee so I built a handicap ramp to rehab him. I was furloughed so I had the time. The vet said his other one would give out someday. Well, yesterday was that day. The ramp was one of those things on my to do list to take down. Glad I hadn't yet. Today I overlaid the old deck with new plywood as the other had rotted. It was great weather for it. 

Lots of families were out taking advantage of it. All practicing their social distancing.


----------



## Poppy

knucklegary said:


> Hey Poppy
> 
> I can shop those ridiculous grocery store hours (6-8am) for 65-up old farts.. During my last early shopping session it was a 70yr old gal who damn near knocked me on my a$$ to get 10lb bag of potatoes. My old skool Vans almost left a permanent impression in her tail.
> It is sometimes hard to keep a safe distance while in the produce isle. Tho, i can still run pretty fast for an old dude!


And there you go proving my point.... people are stupid!

Something like... "Hey *****... back off" might get her attention" maybe the low numbers in your area hasn't brought urgency into the mind set yet. By time it does it may be too late, so IMO anything you can do to increase the rate of compliance will be for the good.

I have a quick story.
A friend of mine went to a walmart or K-mart to get a car battery with his friend who needed one. While standing in line the woman in front of him was ****ering about some coupons, and she was taking an excessive amount of time. The guy in-line behind my friend, agitatedly asked, "how much are we talking about? ... I'll pay the difference!" My friend turned and said to him... "No it's alright they almost have it worked out." To which the other guy responded... "Look, I'm in Anger Management, and I'm about to loose it!"

Very quickly the issue was resolved.

So if you have to act outside your norm to stay safe, and to speed the process of others maintaining safety, it might be something to consider.


----------



## Poppy

And now a little humor
How Rednecks prepare for the corona virus


----------



## bigburly912

Coronavirus boredom. I found a p60 module with YC-3 on it in a parts bin and am running it in a 2xaa host with some energizer nimh cells. (I didn’t even think it would work.) I’ll never use it for anything so why not. It gives off a small amount of light and has a nice warm candle like tint. What’s not to love.


----------



## Tachead

knucklegary said:


> I would not take WHO as a last word on anything


Definitely not, look how long those bone heads dragged their feet on labeling this a pandemic. A high price will be paid for that unfortunately...

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Does anyone else think that the death rate might be more than what we are being told? I've heard 1% a lot and I've heard 3.4% from the WHO based on China's numbers. However, it is coming out that there are a lot more urns of dead people's ashes than match up to China's numbers. I heard that 21 million Chinese phone numbers have been suddenly shut off (plans cancelled). Looking at the current numbers, which include the numbers given from China (not that those numbers can be trusted), at this moment, we have 142,183 people who recovered and 30,879 deaths worldwide. That puts the death rate at over 21.71%. Granted, there is no perfect way to calculate the mortality rate but I think calculating it based only on those with an outcome gets us the closest to the real number. You can't compare those that just got sick to those who died as an unknown percentage of those that just got sick will die. The time lag throws off the calculations. Am I missing something, or is the death rate really that high?


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Here are some corona virus parody songs to get you through this quarantine a little easier:
U can't touch this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cbe_aoaw0y4
My Sharona: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-2cFN2iC9u8
Hey there,Delilah: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6pCgE4Gocbo
Kokomo: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0uDTs-9fq00
I think we're alone now: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rmArAxep2Co
Bohemian Rhapsody: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K0HLUa4zTXQ

People get really creative when they have nothing better to do. Enjoy.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

unedited vimeo from the same video below

NYC FRONT LINES DOCTOR EXPLAINS *HOW EASY IT IS TO NOT GET INFECTED* AND STOP THE SPREAD OF COVID-19 [ 3-24-20 ]

_Dr. Dave Price of Weill Cornell Medical Center in New York City shares CRUCIAL information on how we can stop the spread and get back to normal, well, kinda normal. His experience with the virus and people infected for the last 3 months has given him great confidence on how not to get infected. Rules to protect yourself and family. It's a must watch! Recorded March 22_


----------



## ven

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Does anyone else think that the death rate might be more than what we are being told?




No evidence or proof, so i am typing what i believe/think. I would guess about 10 x that amount easy. We get all the negative numbers, but not the recovering. Most people will get mild symptoms, most will recover at home with no test, no way of actually knowing they have or have had it. 

If i get symptoms or family member, i am to isolate myself for 2 weeks(is this long enough? there have been reports of it lying dormant for longer....who knows exactly). 

A high %(almost all but very few) have underling health conditions.
A high % is over 70 yrs old(Italy for example have a high % of older population)
Around 60-70% of the deaths are male, it effects males more than females.

Thats pretty much what info i have found, this may change of course.

I watch the news , 15min to catch up, then i focus on other stuff. We can analyse, look at figures all we want, but the news reports miss out the fully recovered. We can only go off who has been tested and who is recorded. Right now that is a small %. Once tests become more available, this will be stopped sooner. 

If i could test, i can find out and isolate. But i can not test right now, even though i could have it. I go to work, temp is 35.9 under the arm(yes tested that myself)follow distancing and temp checks. i am fine for a week, maybe 2. Then my temp rises, now my temp is 38.4, feeling a little rough. How many people could i have infected, distancing will sure reduce that. But if i can test, it takes that risk or reduces it greatly.

So act as if your infected, not uninfected. Act as if you dont want to spread the virus to others. If everyone acted this way, maybe this would help limit the spread till we can test and know more. Just thoughts of course.

Stay safe CPF

Trailhunter, that is awesome!!!!:bow: you rock:rock:


----------



## bykfixer

Here's proof why men get it more Ven. 
https://www.facebook.com/WistfulMemories2K20/videos/505757800343682?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo


Mrs Fixer and I went to a hardware store for a sheet of plywood and in general it seemed pretty normal. People buying 300 feet of 8" pipe, or 67 2x4's or 45 gallons of paint. Huh? Do they know something I don't? Should I buy 6 more boxes of nails while they still have nails? 
I did buy another pair of Mechanix fast fit gloves because 8 pairs of those is not enough. 

Looking at the closed shopping mall was sureal. I saw some mall cops chatting to one another in their Nissan pickup trucks while social distancing, so they're still working. Cool. Then I thought about all those out of work waiters and waitresses who would typically have achey feet every evening and wondered how many are doing deliveries. It struck me as odd to see some places like Red Lobster not even open. Steak joints are set up where you order online and go pick it up. They were jamming pretty good along with your typical burger joints. A place called Jimmy Johns had police outside keeping the crowd under control. Jimmy Johns? Really? C'mon they aint all that. We chuckled and decided "must be two for one night". 

I looked at the death clock this morning and yeah, USA has a commanding lead in total cases. Make America Great Again? Yeah we're great at spreading this virus that is certain. But the number in the dead column shows that it could be a younger, less prone to die section spiking the cases. So I looked at my state's death clock page and sure enough 20-29 aged people have become the top group to have it. My age 50-59 was in the lead. And men had a commanding lead until yesterday when women suddenly spiked to with closing distance of men. Nurses? Teachers? Grocery clerks perhaps? 

Too soon to tell. Now the reason the "recovered" numbers aren't climbing yet is because "recovered" is when no more virus is detected in testing. On average that is 10 days to up to 6 weeks in some before that happens. About ten days for mild cases, up to 6 weeks for the severe cases. It'll be mid to late April, but those numbers will rise drastically in a few weeks. My state for example shows 2 recovered. That was the first two to get it back in late February. But the vast majority are _recover-ing. _They're just not showing negative yet. Studies show that within 5 days of symptons gone they cannot "grow" new virus from samples but nobody wants to take the chance with this one that one person may still be contagious after days 6,7 etc so they deem you recovered when none shows up in follow tests (twice).

Hang in there folks. Right now the light at the end of the tunnel is a train. So be careful. But most if not all will get through this. And time will probably show around a 1.4% death rate across the globe when this thing is over.


----------



## ven

bykfixer said:


> Here's proof why men get it more Ven.
> https://www.facebook.com/WistfulMemories2K20/videos/505757800343682?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo




:laughing:

Love it!


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## bykfixer

Someone mentioned postal service "rain sleet or snow". Well you can add pandemic to the list. I had a package stuck in Newark NJ for a week but it has arrived at my local post office as of last night. I speculate that air mail has been affected and that it moved by truck. It's just a hat and some decals from a once popular shoe brand trying to make a go at it again. So nothing important really. Good thing it wasn't toilet paper.


----------



## trailhunter

bykfixer said:


> Someone mentioned postal service "rain sleet or snow". Well you can add pandemic to the list. I had a package stuck in Newark NJ for a week but it has arrived at my local post office as of last night. I speculate that air mail has been affected and that it moved by truck. It's just a hat and some decals from a once popular shoe brand trying to make a go at it again. So nothing important really. Good thing it wasn't toilet paper.


Be sure to handle mail as if it were a carrier of the virus. Dont bring packages/mail in. Open them up outside and with nitrile gloves

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Kestrel

I have edited a recent post to remove an oversized pic, and also edited a subsequent full quote of said pics for the same reason. But then running into the same issue a few posts later, I confess to having a little less patience & so subsequently just culled the later two posts. If members don't want to bother with making sure pics aren't oversized, and other members don't bother with removing the oversized pics from their full quote, I feel less inclined to bother with editing posts to clean things up. As a courtesy to the other members reading the thread; when quoting a post, please consider not including the pic series that was only just prior. And, good morning.


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## ven

Good morning kestrel , I apologise in advance if any of my pics are too big. I tend to post on the Macbook and can end up looking different on phones .
Thank you for keeping is tidy and hope your well 

Cheers 

Sat chilling watching some Netflix, it’s almost as if nothing has changed here! Stay safe .


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## bykfixer

If you see a yellow box at the top of the pic that means it was oversized. On my iPhone I use "ResizePhoto" app and have my host site set up to max out at 800 res. 

Yet every so often I see a yellow box when I forgot to shrink it in the photo resize. 

I'd show a screen shot of the app but my favorite host site is down for maintenance. The icon is a square with an orange arrow in all four corners and a daisy in the middle. Quick, nimble app that is easy to use. 

The weekly grocery trip was fairly uneventful. I saw my twin brother and his wife both in hoarde mode. I was like "good gosh dude, you just now stocking up?" He sheepishly said "yeah". They were almost out of my favorite pre-cooked turkey sausage patties. I bought a spare. There were three boxes left but I didn't want to be "that guy" buying what remained. 

But folks, if you are a vegan, lactose intolorant or gluten free, those shelves were loaded. And peanuts were gone too. I suppose in pandemics suddenly those allergies don't count? They had plenty of milk, but no skim. Well, except lactose free skim. I looked the carton over good and it says it's real cow milk so I grabbed one so I can eat Cheerios instead of cake for dessert this week. Speaking of cereal, again there were all kinds of those nuts and twigs cereals. But if you want frosted flakes or Count Chocula, sorry pal. My twin brother bought the last of that stuff. 

Bird was pretty scarce, so was pig, but there was plenty of cow meat. I suppose the nearest farms to me are mostly cow farms. And Red Baron pizzas? Forget it. You'll probably find toilet paper first. Yup folks are still hoarding that stuff too. But there was plenty of Vienna sausage, which had been gone the last few weeks. 

Ven, I will treat that package from Newark New Jersey like it has anthrax on the outside and ebola on the inside.


----------



## RBR

Here´s an article from German red cross, showing a prototype run of a plasma decon device for decontamination of used protective gear such as shields, masks, gloves or whole suits.

All you need to run it is electrical power and just air as process gas.

Cheers 

RBR


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## ven

:laughing:

that advice was from mr trailhunter. However any packages i have received, opened. Hands have been washed after .......just in case!

Cant say i have noticed the box on posting pics since using imgur, i had noticed in past it resized automatically(dont think it use to years back.......maybe something new?). i pic the large, not huge thumbnail.

I have had a full on chill day today, plenty of rest and chill time(again). Good news regarding PPE supplies in the UK, thats all getting to front line heroes. 

In the UK we have been informed its going last 3-6 months lock down. Then 3 weekly reviews(every 3 weeks review due to that being the potential time of infection to death).

Possible plans a foot to test the whole nation, of course priority will be with front line. 

So it looks realistically like a 6 month lockdown, thats if people can behave. Lock down can end up being more severe as well..............

Stay safe and enjoy that turkey sausage patty in good health.


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## ven

Police were called and dispersed a karaoke party, 25 adults and children on Saturday night in Derbyshire ...........there is stupid, and there is STUPID! 

All i know is they had words/ warnings with the owner.............

Is there hope out there? Its a good job we dont depend on these idiots to get through this.


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## knucklegary

Byk, I received a parcel from Benton Harbor, CT, arrived Tuesday this week.. Ordered before Covid19 SHTF.. After pushing it into garage with my foot I thoroughly sprayed box with Lysol disinfectant. After four days I opened box lid, and even then I backed off til later that day before pulling out my new US Jack stands. Better safe than sorry!


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## bykfixer

KG, at my local grocery stores clorox wipes, Lysol etc is all gone but……disinfecting toilet bowl cleaner is plentiful. What does it disinfect with you ask? Cloroooooooox. I just poured a bottle of that into an empty Windex bottle and viola……
Now the package from New Jersey will get sprayed with hydrogen peroxide. That kills covid-19 too. 

Don't have empty Windex bottles hanging around? Pour it into an empty vessel you were going to toss anyway and put it back when the coast is clear. Suddenly you have an empty Windex bottle. At my work a fellow said his company requires him to spritz steering wheels and seats with disinfectant. His wife made 5 gallons but he said stores are out of spray bottles. I reached into a box in my truck and pulled out my window cleaner. I poured that into an empty Gatorade bottle and handed him the empty spray bottle. Next day everybody on the construction site was spritzing stuff using window cleaner bottles. Bykfixer mod, pandemic style……


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## Poppy

Clorox germocidal bleach lists 6.05% sodium hypochlorite as the active ingredient.
One gallon makes 30 gallons of disinfectant.

If you pick up a different product, you can do the math.

Although I have two other brands, even one of them clorox brand, and none of them list the percentage of sodium hypochlorite in them. I don't know what that is about, because, they used to.


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## trailhunter

Poppy said:


> Clorox germocidal bleach lists 6.05% sodium hypochlorite as the active ingredient.
> One gallon makes 30 gallons of disinfectant.
> 
> If you pick up a different product, you can do the math.
> 
> Although I have two other brands, even one of them clorox brand, and none of them list the percentage of sodium hypochlorite in them. I don't know what that is about, because, they used to.


Theres a Clorox germacidal bleach? Doesnt regular bleach already kill like 99% of viruses?

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## bykfixer

Seen on Fakebook: 

"After all the stupid things I've done in my life, if I die from touching my face I'm going to be pissed."


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## PhotonWrangler

Very nice, trailhunter! Do I see adapters in those bulb sockets? I bought a UVC bulb like that and it had a base size that was hard to find the correct socket for.


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## Poppy

trailhunter said:


> Theres a Clorox germacidal bleach? Doesn't regular bleach already kill like 99% of viruses?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Yes, there is a germacidal bleach, and yes, I think regular bleach has always been listed as killing 99% of bacteria and viruses. I am far from an expert.

We do have a bottle of Clorox Clean-up on hand, it is listed on the bottle as "Disinfectant Bleach Cleaner" it has 1.84% Sodium Hypochlorite, so the math I mentioned above doesn't equate. IE 6% diluted 1:30 is only 0.2% vs almost 2% in the spray bottle. Perhaps the concentration in the spray bottle is stronger than necessary. IDK









Please let me know if this is an over-size image. I'll try to edit it and make it smaller if it is.
Poppy


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## Chauncey Gardiner

Hi Poppy, 

I haven't been able to view the pictures you've posted. Anyone else having the same issue, or is it just me?


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## wweiss

See this research and history of Iodine as a preventative for Flu. 
May have some crossover benefits for COVID...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/26415c71xvmvt47/Iodine-Weapon Against Viruses.pdf?dl=0


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## trailhunter

Ah interesting, I'll keep an eye out for this type of bleach.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Poppy

Chauncey,
I edited the post... does it show for you now?


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## ven

I can see it now poppy, previous I couldn’t like CG:thumbsup:


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## Poppy

Thank you ven.

I just checked we also have a bottle of Chlorox "TileX" for cleaning the bathroom tiles etc.
It lists active ingredient Sodium Hypochlorite 2.48 %


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## wweiss

[FONT=&quot]*Johns Hopkins University, sent out this summary to avoid contagion:*[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*1* The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and convert them into aggressor and multiplier cells.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*2* Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed, but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*3* The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy, because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam). By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*4* HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 25 degrees Celsius for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*5* Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*6* Any mix with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*7* Oxygenated water helps long after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein, but you have to use it pure and it hurts your skin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*8* NO BACTERICIDE SERVES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; they cannot kill what is not alive with antibiotics, but quickly disintegrate its structure with everything said.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*9* NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While it is glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only between 3 hours (fabric and porous), 4 hours (copper, because it is naturally antiseptic; and wood, because it removes all the moisture and does not let it peel off and disintegrates). ), 24 hours (cardboard), 42 hours (metal) and 72 hours (plastic). But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours, and can lodge in your nose.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*10* The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or artificial as air conditioners in houses and cars. They also need moisture to stay stable, and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*11* UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin, eventually causing wrinkles and skin cancer.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*12* The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*13* Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*14* NO SPIRITS, NOR VODKA, serve. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol, and you need 65%.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*15* LISTERINE IF IT SERVES! It is 65% alcohol.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*16* The more confined the space, the more concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*17* This is super said, but you have to wash your hands before and after touching mucosa, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*18* You have to HUMIDIFY HANDS DRY from so much washing them, because the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]*19* Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus does not hide there.[/FONT]


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## Chauncey Gardiner

Poppy said:


> Chauncey,
> I edited the post... does it show for you now?



Yes, I see it. The boys and I have been out working in the yard. While I enjoyed getting outside, I sure missed you guys. 

Now to head over and see if Poppy's burger picture is fixed.


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## Kestrel

Poppy said:


> [...] Please let me know if this is an over-size image. I'll try to edit it and make it smaller if it is.


You're good; 5something x 7something (800 max for each dimension); thanks.


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## bykfixer

Good info wweisssssssss.


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## RedLED

Let me ask this...This past Thanksgiving, my wife, and the rest of the family went on a cruise ship to the Caribbean. Now, I was the only one who did not go, for many reasons, the main one being after you have cruised on a US Navy Super-carrier with almost unrestricted access, escort required for navigating, meals with the officers with private quarters while aboard, a cruise ship seems dull, plus there would be nothing for me to do. All they do all day is drink, and I never have a cocktail until 1800 Hrs. 

Nevertheless, right after she came home, she had a terrible flu/cold, bad, really bad, like nothing she had before. Could it be that some one on the ship had been to the area of China where the virus started, and went on the same cruise? Could she have had the COVID-19 Virus, and got through it? From the middle of November until the first of the year, I Don't have any big projects to work on, so I was home to take care of her, and it was bad, however, I did not get it.

Whatever it was came from that Goddamm boat!

Any thoughts on wheather she may have had the dreadful COVID-19?

Thank you,

RedLED


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## archimedes

Lots of controversy about this, but now in retrospect, current thought seems to have this pandemic starting ~ mid-November 2019.


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## trailhunter

RedLED said:


> Let me ask this...This past Thanksgiving, my wife, and the rest of the family went on a cruise ship to the Caribbean. Now, I was the only one who did not go, for many reasons, the main one being after you have cruised on a US Navy Super-carrier with almost unrestricted access, escort required for navigating, meals with the officers with private quarters while aboard, a cruise ship seems dull, plus there would be nothing for me to do. All they do all day is drink, and I never have a cocktail until 1800 Hrs.
> 
> Nevertheless, right after she came home, she had a terrible flu/cold, bad, really bad, like nothing she had before. Could it be that some one on the ship had been to the area of China where the virus started, and went on the same cruise? Could she have had the COVID-19 Virus, and got through it? From the middle of November until the first of the year, I Don't have any big projects to work on, so I was home to take care of her, and it was bad, however, I did not get it.
> 
> Whatever it was came from that Goddamm boat!
> 
> Any thoughts on wheather she may have had the dreadful COVID-19?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> RedLED


Very unlikely, seems like she just got a bug from overseas. 


Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Poppy

RedLED said:


> <SNIP>
> 
> Any thoughts on whether she may have had the dreadful COVID-19?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> RedLED



Maybe.
One of the treatments they are trying, is to use plasma (containing antibodies) from those, who had and recovered from the virus. 
If that treatment is proven successful, if they have a serum test, she might be a part of the solution. Just maybe.


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## Poppy

wweiss,
I agree... great post!
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...-Coronavirus&p=5377069&viewfull=1#post5377069


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## Hooked on Fenix

U.S. national lockdown is now extended to April 30. Deaths are expected to rise to between 60,000 and 200,000 in the U.S.. They say it could have been as high as 2.2 million dead in U.S. alone if we didn't take the steps we took from the start. Looks like we're in this for the long haul.


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## trailhunter

Hooked on Fenix said:


> U.S. national lockdown is now extended to April 30. Deaths are expected to rise to between 60,000 and 200,000 in the U.S.. They say it could have been as high as 2.2 million dead in U.S. alone if we didn't take the steps we took from the start. Looks like we're in this for the long haul.


expect more like 6-12 months

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> added another pair of cool skateboard shoes to the closet.





ven said:


> I am waiting on some trainers, certainly wont get your approval though...



I also just bought some shoes, maybe there's something to it.. They're not here yet for me to snap, but as for sharing your unique shoes, as long as I'm here you're good.

In other news: I did the Get Food Adventure Challenge this evening, ordered ahead at the pizza place, strolled in, picked up my pizzas and left. Not everyone else had it so easy; here's the local burger place/drive thru pictured on the right, you'll note that it's some distance away from the line of cars - that's because the actual drive-thru pickup windows are on the opposite side of the building, the line of cars is stretched around it and extends the length and then width of the parking lot [in some places a double line], then at the entrance to that lot/on the left is the girl taking the orders, then you can see the line proceeding down the street in front of her. There's ~50 cars there. 







The Asian place next to the pizza shoppe is indeed open for business, just get your food from the hole in the divider:


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## bykfixer

First known case was November 17th 2019.


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## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Any thoughts on wheather she may have had the dreadful COVID-19?



An antibody test doesn't look for the virus, it looks for the antibodies your body is producing/had produced to fight the virus - that means it reveals plainly if you have ever had the virus before.


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## ven

StarHalo said:


> I also just bought some shoes, maybe there's something to it.. They're not here yet for me to snap, but as for sharing your unique shoes, as long as I'm here you're good.
> 
> I love a little distraction, little sneaker talk with pics!
> I think a little online shopping(no choice right now if we want pretty much anything) helps the mind! Dont tell mr fixer they are Nike what ever you do, but these are a 9.5(10.5 US) and although fit well, the stupid lace design on the r/h shoe, digs in to an old injury.(OK its my fault not the shoe)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can feel the lace , which touches an old break on the big toe.............i just left it 30+ years back. So a little simple stub feels like i have broken it all over. Now imagine that break on the knuckle, someone putting pressure on it= thats how it feels as soon as i slip it on. Liking the design and having them sat there since Dec19, i have ordered another pair in 10.5.........hoping they will fit! Yes crazy i know. I am not even a huge nike sneaker fan, i prefer adidas and have several pairs(still one of my all time fav are my EQT and had them ages, only summer wear)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red, thats a tough call and no way of knowing 100% without a test, i would say(so its a guess) 50/50 chance. Did she have shortness of breath(struggling to breath) and a cough? Even possible coughing up blood. Thats the apparent difference, it may have flu like symptoms in ways with high temp/fever, but its not typical flu.
> 
> Agree trailhunter, 6-12 months is the most realistic. We have been told in the UK 3-6m, so that means 6m at least. Also possible relaxing in some isolating rules, then enforcing again. So by that, i am reading into it. Some business after 3 or 4 months maybe allowed to open, but could close again if any increase. Its a tough call to make , even if/when the UK is clear. If the rest of the globe is not, we are still at risk, as with any other country. So a huge global problem, without total eradication (vaccine) its not going to go away any time soon. All we can do, is limit the spread as much as possible till that time comes.
> 
> Stay safe


----------



## trailhunter

What I predict is the global enforcement of masks that everyone has to wear while outside, social distancing will continue and the limit of areas where mass gatherings possible such as concerts, beaches, conventions etc would be suspended until further notice.

Who will make so many masks for billions of people? Who knows but at the very least, maybe we are buying some time for our childrens future decreasing greenhouse gases and possibly slowing global warming.





Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## bykfixer

Oh Lord, lets not go down the global climate change path here.…

Those look like some marshall law crackdown shoes ven.

Now time to tune into the death clock channel for updates of yesterdays carnage while my brother and his cohorts speak of building Soviet era blockades around each state and require fever checks before entering. Holy crap man, people gotta settle down before they do things that can't be undone. :shakehead


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## Poppy

Washable re-useable masks! 20 seconds in warm soapy water and whallah... clean mask! 

My MD reasoned that if the virus is fragile, such that it becomes inert in 3 days, then a mask left unused for that time, can be reused. A rotating set of masks is feasable.


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## bigburly912

Poppy said:


> Washable re-useable masks! 20 seconds in warm soapy water and whallah... clean mask!
> 
> My MD reasoned that if the virus is fragile, such that it becomes inert in 3 days, then a mask left unused for that time, can be reused. A rotating set of masks is feasable.



It’s not fragile at all. Already been proven to survive for over a week on certain surfaces.


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## Poppy

Hooked on Fenix said:


> U.S. national lockdown is now extended to April 30.


Really? What does that mean?
LOCK-Down (in my mind) denotes the Army National guard patrolling the streets, and Nazi like, behavior, like they did in Warsaw during WW2.

NYC has released prisoners early to create a little social distancing in the prisons. Would they arrest people and put them in prison? 

Stupid term.


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## bykfixer

431 cases per million people in the US. 
8 deaths per million people in the US. 

If the predicted 100k deaths occur that is 0.03% of the population. 

Does that mean be wreckless? Heavens no!! 
Does it warrant Soviet era methods of population control? If you think so, are you ok with giving the government that much power? 
Just something to chew on while out searching for toilet paper……


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## idleprocess

bykfixer said:


> Those look like some marshall law crackdown shoes ven.



Nah, that would be more like ... _*5.11*_ ... shoes.


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## wweiss

UV - from the sun - may be useful for degrading the virus molecule. The old fashioned way of drying laundry on a line - in the open air and sun.


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## Hooked on Fenix

Poppy said:


> Really? What does that mean?
> LOCK-Down (in my mind) denotes the Army National guard patrolling the streets, and Nazi like, behavior, like they did in Warsaw during WW2.
> 
> NYC has released prisoners early to create a little social distancing in the prisons. Would they arrest people and put them in prison?
> 
> Stupid term.



Okay, the nationwide stay at home order including all "non essential" businesses shut down has been extended to April 30. A travel advisory has been put in place in the New York area to prevent people from driving around for non essential reasons. Other states are pulling over cars with New York plates to keep them out of their state. Does that sound better than lockdown?

In other news, people are trying to leak the real death numbers out of China. Based on the number of urns in the area, it's over 40,000 dead. Apparently, about 5-10% of those that recovered are testing positive again in China. They are getting reinfected. There is no evidence at this time that they are getting sick again or getting others sick, but this is concerning and something to keep a close eye on. An Albertsons in Escondido, CA has been closed due to one employee testing positive for corona virus. I would suggest getting prepared for everything being closed down. We could have more similar closures as more get infected or God forbid, a strike of grocery clerks, bank tellers, or nurses.


----------



## bykfixer

Today in America zero automobiles were produced. First time since WW2.

They all switched over to emergency supply.


----------



## bigburly912

Bykfixer. Our lovely governor will be making an announcement at 2.


----------



## knucklegary

China and India comprises 2/3 world population..
Now back to finding a TP substitute.. 
I wonder are tortillas flushable 🤔


----------



## bykfixer

He is expected to do a stay at home order bb. 

Toilet paper was a mighty fine invention kg. But what did they do back in the days of Thomas Jefferson? Or before the Sears catalog? Not arristocrats but regular shmoes like us. Thanks to wireless these days phone books are pretty skimpy. 

I have an idea how to put a splitter on my toilets incoming supply and have a ball valve inline at the end. Put a female brass cap with small holes drilled for ability to wash those unmentionables.


----------



## Poppy

OK... I'm ready for a food run with Fruit of the Loom.


----------



## knucklegary

After a bidet wash.. then what, towel dry? 

Breeze dry.. burrr cold outside!

Ben Franklin would have used the kite string method 🤗


----------



## P_A_S_1

The craziest over tp and paper towels is too much. Running water, soap, old tee shirts, and a little bleach and you'll be fine.


----------



## bigburly912

I hang a bath towel off the ceiling and back flip off the front of the bowl while doing the splits and let it clean me off. No toilet paper used in 3 weeks and my calves look amazing.


----------



## trailhunter

Poppy said:


> OK... I'm ready for a food run with Fruit of the Loom.


Excellent idea! 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: National Lockdown* and related: this President has specifically declined national-level action on this issue, and has recently even backtracked on possible individual city options - there's not going to be any coordinated federal government response to any aspect of this event, it is being left to states to decide on their own. If you're in a state that has some resources and everyone's spread out, it won't be so bad, but if your state is poor and/or cramped (ie the South), this isn't going to go well..



ven said:


> Dont tell mr fixer they are Nike what ever you do, but these are a 9.5(10.5 US) and although fit well, the stupid lace design on the r/h shoe, digs in to an old injury.(OK its my fault not the shoe) You can feel the lace , which touches an old break on the big toe...



Yeah, I know a little something about Nike Elements; I wear mine with the laces so loose that you can't really feel the upper at all, it just feels like there's a sole floating against the bottom of your sock; note that these are a thin parachute nylon pair and not one of the alternative stiffer materials though, that may be part of it: 





If you're an Adidas fan, I strongly recommend checking out the cloud-like Ultraboosts, these are essentially the only Adidas models I look at now:


----------



## Poppy

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Okay, the nationwide stay at home order including all "non essential" businesses shut down has been extended to April 30. A travel advisory has been put in place in the New York area to prevent people from driving around for non essential reasons. Other states are pulling over cars with New York plates to keep them out of their state. Does that sound better than lockdown?


Yes it does sound better.
In the New York Metropolitan area, the "non essential" travel has been in effect already, so the "travel advisory" is rhetorical. Regarding other states pulling over cars with NY plates, that was only Rhode Island, and that order was rescinded in less than 24 hours. Connecticut's governor stated that there will be no restriction of travel between CT and NY.

I'm in New Jersey about 10 miles from NYC as the crow flies. There aren't many cars on the roads, people are keeping their distance, and are pretty much hunkered down. NY Governor Cuomo has shown graphs that distancing, etc is having an effect, whereas the number of hospitalizations initially doubled every 2.5 days, it is down to doubling every 6 days. However due to the geometric progression of transmission, the numbers continue to get larger and larger. Fortunately the number of people who are released from the hospitals increase each day too.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

knucklegary said:


> China and India comprises 2/3 world population..
> Now back to finding a TP substitute..
> I wonder are tortillas flushable 樂


 
I make a habit of never putting anything in the toilet (except TP) that you haven't eaten first.


----------



## lion504

bigburly912 said:


> I hang a bath towel off the ceiling and back flip off the front of the bowl while doing the splits and let it clean me off. No toilet paper used in 3 weeks and my calves look amazing.



:lolsign:



StarHalo said:


> *Re: National Lockdown* ... there's not going to be any coordinated federal government response to any aspect of this event, it is being left to states to decide on their own.



Probably good news. I work for the federal gov and it's amazing how often we get it wrong.


----------



## knucklegary

Those Adidas Ultra Boost have a very functional looking heel counter.. and will give BB an extra half gainer to the wipe!


----------



## markr6

Poppy said:


> Yes it does sound better.
> In the New York Metropolitan area, the "non essential" travel has been in effect already, so the "travel advisory" is rhetorical. Regarding other states pulling over cars with NY plates, that was only Rhode Island, and that order was rescinded in less than 24 hours. Connecticut's governor stated that there will be no restriction of travel between CT and NY.



It's interesting how people seem to take (I assume) being "singled out" so personally. It would just be out of an abundance of caution. CT doesn't want anyone from NY because they're greasy and their food stinks. NY doesn't want anyone from CT because they're greasy and their food stinks.


----------



## ven

StarHalo said:


> Yeah, I know a little something about Nike Elements; I wear mine with the laces so loose that you can't really feel the upper at all, it just feels like there's a sole floating against the bottom of your sock; note that these are a thin parachute nylon pair and not one of the alternative stiffer materials though, that may be part of it:




They are sure comfortable and light (on left foot anyway lol). 

If you're an Adidas fan, I strongly recommend checking out the cloud-like Ultraboosts, these are essentially the only Adidas models I look at now:
[/QUOTE]

Cool! will bare in mind down the line. I am hoping I will be ok for trainers for a bit(have few others to).


Cheers


----------



## trailhunter

Virginia officially enforced a stay at home order (they should have done this 3 weeks ago)

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## Slumber

Is this the Ugly Shoe thread? [emoji12]


----------



## StarHalo

lion504 said:


> Probably good news. I work for the federal gov and it's amazing how often we get it wrong.



The problem is that this means there won't be any one curve for the United States; areas like California and Colorado will have curves roughly like those of other industrialized nations, whereas areas like Florida and Louisiana will have death rates similar to some African countries. The averaged result will not be on par with other nationally coordinated first world nations. 



ven said:


> I am hoping I will be ok for trainers for a bit(have few others to).



For coming back from injury, you want "recovery" trainers/runners, and the two biggest names in that segment are the Nike Pegasus Turbos (the orange shoes originally linked) and the Adidas Ultraboosts; either of these models are so soft that they'd be in the way of a hardcore/personal-best competition run, but they're ideal for getting back on your feet or casual jogs.



Slumber Pass said:


> Is this the Ugly Shoe thread? [emoji12]



Get you some pretty shoes..


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

knucklegary said:


> Now back to finding a TP substitute..
> I wonder are tortillas flushable 樂



If first inserted in your mouth and digested, then yes. If inserted from the other end, then no.


----------



## turbodog

StarHalo said:


> The problem is that this means there won't be any one curve for the United States; areas like California and Colorado will have curves roughly like those of other industrialized nations, whereas areas like Florida and Louisiana will have death rates similar to some African countries. The averaged result will not be on par with other nationally coordinated first world nations.



This. Yes.

I look at the USA numbers and compare existing cases against new ones for a daily infection ratio. Some states are higher/lower than others.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

MS and AL are side by side, but AL's percentage gain is significantly less than MS despite having 50% more population.


----------



## bykfixer

Once upon a time an experiment was tried. A place where local government was established. Each locality was given authority to govern itself the way its citizens deemed fit. Some of those localities were more cool to be in than others for various reasons like jobs, beaches or mineral and orr mines. 

A state government was formed as a collection of all localities in a given territory. It was set up to provide resources and laws for the common good of that territory. If need be they provide revenue collected from localities and placed in a pool of money. Things like school systems, and health rules were put in place to provide for the overall citizenry of said territory. But localities had a say so over the state to a degree. Some states were more cool to live in than others due to jobs, beaches or other reasons. They decided if a Republic or statehood or commonwealth best suited them. But they also established rules of what constitutes being a city versus a town or village. Population numbers decided that. 

At some point enough territories now called states developed and there became a need for an over see-er of the collection of states. It was designed to provide services from a giant pool of money that would be spread around as much as practical based on needs such as population. But states still had say so over the central government. 

Localities had say so over states and states over the central government. That place was called the United States of America. United……States. After the civil war in America the central government was placed over the states in authority. Later states were put in authority over localities. In some cases counties rule cities. But the central government was never intended to be completely in charge of everything. Each state still decides its own path, same as localities decide theirs. 

In this situation New York city asked the state of New York for help. Unable to completely help New York state asked the US government for help. The US government did not respond "you're on your own". They responded "cities get the best deal you can get from your resources available, when you have done your best, the state takes over. When they have done their best from their available resources the federal government will help out.

When Hawaii was invaded it took a bit of time to come up with enough resources to beat a foreign country. Now some historians argue that there was ample warning about the attack on America. That is neither here nor there. Nor is whether or not America had ample warning of being invaded by a new virus. But what is, is the fact that the same principles apply regarding the way the 3 types of government institutions are run. Also that it is going to take a bit of time to fight off this invader. 

Also reality dictates that about 80% of those who catch this virus will be ok. 15% will get really sick and 5% will die, many of which would have probably died in the not so distant future. Italy is now saying that the vast majority of their deaths are people who probably would not have lived two more years. Also the guy who said "200,000 Americans will die" just changed his tune to 20,000 after factoring in social distancing into his model. Not Fauchi who was just preparing us for the far worst scenario but that Nelson fellow who said it in the first place. His new model does not factor in santitizing like we are. But see sometimes the federal government has to send out shocking numbers to get folks to listen. If all goes well there will be plenty to brag about from mayors, city councils to governors and legislators to congress folks and the president. 

Now back to ugly shoes……


----------



## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> In this situation New York city asked the state of New York for help. Unable to completely help New York state asked the US government for help. The US government did not respond "you're on your own". They responded "cities get the best deal you can get from your resources available, when you have done your best, the state takes over. When they have done their best from their available resources the federal government will help out.



That's not what's happening; there is no federal reserve of what is needed available because we disbanded the institutions that prepare for such things, you have only private stores which absent of any governmental dictate are left subject to the rules of the free market - thus the many reports from governors having to not only bid for equipment, but bid against other governors and even FEMA itself. State representatives are having to compete against federal entities just to get medical supplies, something that would be completely illegal in a nationally coordinated response/any other industrialized nation.



bykfixer said:


> When Hawaii was invaded it took a bit of time to come up with enough resources to beat a foreign country. Now some historians argue that there was ample warning about the attack on America. That is neither here nor there. Nor is whether or not America had ample warning of being invaded by a new virus. But what is, is the fact that the same principles apply regarding the way the 3 types of government institutions are run. Also that it is going to take a bit of time to fight off this invader.



It hit all the other first world nations as a surprise at roughly the same time, yet our curve will look notably deviant to theirs, history will have to explain that. 



bykfixer said:


> 5% will die, many of which would have probably died in the not so distant future.



Macabre.


----------



## bykfixer

-Disbanded? The cdc had dinosaur policies so it was streamlined. 
-Slow to test? The FDA rejected test kits by used by other nations due to false negatives and false positives in nearly half of them. 
-Macrabre? Sometimes the truth bites. 

It's all out there to read if one really wants to see.

Burley, the Ralph keeps getting reports of gatherings in places young people tend to congregate like the beach and barbecues. His last two directives were aimed to halt that but the young adults refused to heed. So now he has given those folks a message that law enforcement will be used when necessary and did it in a way that makes it legal to do it. 

I'm no fan of the guy but do understand why he took drastic action. He is a pediatrician by trade who somehow got talked into becoming a politician. Our state has a managable number of cases with most deaths taking place in nursing homes. And it seems Dr Northam takes it personal when young people do not heed his advice same as my dads heart doctor threw him out of his office one day when my dad told him he wasn't going to quit smoking. The man looked at me and said "git him thehell outta my office". My pop called my sister that night and says "my heart doctor says I don't need to come back, I must be healed". 

Americans are used to unbridled freedom. And with each generation more freedom. So while folks who grew up in WW2, Korea, Vietnam, have seen many many hurricanes, earth quakes and other dramatic times often tend to behave for the common good none like having freedom taken away. At least to a degree. But they still want their freedom. Being told they can't go to their favorite steak joint, church, baseball game and all those American freedom induced activities we are slow to comply. Other nations aren't used to the ultimate freedoms Americans have. It's why my family were joking about that virus in Wuhan back at Christmas and wondering what it would look like here by July 4th. 

But in a society where even the judge goes 70mph in a 65 zone, we are slow to respond to being corraled. That's why the numbers in America far exceed other nations, covid-19 tests or not.


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## knucklegary

Personally i prefer to go in style wearing my Vans slip-ons 😎


----------



## bykfixer

Testifyyyyyyyyy KG. 

My new Simple hat showed up today. Mrs Fixer set it on the back deck in the sun all afternoon. When I got home from work the packing tape had melted so I opened it up figuring if I go, bury me in my checkered Vans and Simple ball cap.


----------



## Taz80

There is a Federal stockpile of medical supplies, and some masks and ventilators have already been shipped.


----------



## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> we are slow to respond to being corraled. That's why the numbers in America far exceed other nations, covid-19 tests or not.



Spoiler alert: There was no corral. There was elsewhere, not here.


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## bykfixer

You just made my point star. 
Thank you.

Patrick Henry said in a church near my home "give me liberty or give me death". 
Americans won't be corraled……_especially by _​decree. Look at New Yorkers right now, even in the eye of the storm. There's lots of scenes of ghost town looking streets but you can bet a Pepsi there's a bunch of parties in that city as I type this. 

My doctor says "ya know going to a crowded beach right now" I say "I hear ya doc" and avoid the beach. My governor says "thou shalt not go to Home Depot" ……yeah right.


----------



## coffeecup66

knucklegary said:


> China and India comprises *2/3* world population..
> ...



Source ?


----------



## P_A_S_1

Probably meant Asia.


----------



## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> You just made my point star.
> Thank you.



Your point was that if the states had a problem they couldn't solve, the federal government could be called in to save the day - the states have been calling for help, the government has declined. It has been left to the states to deal with using what they have or can buy. Meanwhile other industrialized countries' governments have provided a uniform national response, which has resulted in the flattening of their curves. Our curve will look different because there was a disastrous, fatal lack of leadership from the federal government.


----------



## wacbzz

Here’s the rub...who gets to decide who’s “essential” and who’s not? I mean, I’ve read both stay-at-home orders from MD and VA. They are an interesting read of what businesses are allowed to stay open. You can, for example still go out to a dealership and look at or test drive or buy a vehicle in both states. Is this an “essential” thing to do at this time? Auto dealers are considered “essential” in both MD and VA. You can’t go to the beach or state park, but you can go to a car dealership. 

Here is Executive order #55 from the VA Governor: https://www.governor.virginia.gov/m...Order-Due-to-Novel-Coronavirus-(COVID-19).pdf

As well as #53 (because 55 refers back to 53): https://www.governor.virginia.gov/m...tions-Due-To-Novel-Coronavirus-(COVID-19).pdf

And here is the Executive order from the MD Governor: https://governor.maryland.gov/wp-co...tV5YYXMXJQtghJ17JvdM9aVQMufspioQMbAym8Yy8GUgY

Is it effective for either governor to issue a stay-at-home order for certain people and then deem others “essentials” and put them in potential harms way by allowing people to go do things like go to a car dealership?


----------



## bigburly912

How did New York buy those giant naval hospital ships that are on their way to help them out in their time of need? Damn shame those other industrialized countries didn’t try to cover this up or hide the amount of dead they had in their streets. I also remember somebody saying our government couldn’t/wouldn’t be able to build hospitals in days like were built in China for Coronavirus response guess what??? I’ve never seen somebody root against their country as hard as some of the people in this thread. It’s literally sickening.


----------



## lion504

Deleted.


----------



## P_A_S_1

The hospitals built in NYC are repurposed existing structures, they weren't build from the ground up. I'm not aware of anything built from the ground up except for some tents in Central Park. There was talk about converting creedmoor but would be a colossal effort as those structures have been in disrepair for decades.


----------



## nbp

Easy now.


----------



## knucklegary

coffeecup66 said:


> Source ?


 typo.. would you believe 1/3 worlds population?
Google where else, they're never wrong


----------



## bigburly912

P_A_S_1 said:


> The hospitals built in NYC are repurposed existing structures, they weren't build from the ground up. I'm not aware of anything built from the ground up except for some tents in Central Park. There was talk about converting creedmoor but would be a colossal effort as those structures have been in disrepair for decades.



I bet you they will actually be used to see patients and not sit at half/quarter capacity for weeks while people are dying.


----------



## P_A_S_1

knucklegary said:


> Oops typo.. would you believe 1/3 worlds population?



Fake news.... kidding [emoji12]


----------



## bigburly912

P_A_S_1 said:


> Fake news.... kidding [emoji12]



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## P_A_S_1

bigburly912 said:


> I bet you they will actually be used to see patients and not sit at half/quarter capacity for weeks while people are dying.



I'd hope so. They're suppose to be used for non covid- 19 patients to free up the hospitals which are way past capacity. The problem now is personal, they are short and need more doctors and nurses.


----------



## knucklegary

:shrug:


----------



## StarHalo

bigburly912 said:


> How did New York buy those giant naval hospital ships that are on their way to help them out in their time of need? Damn shame those other industrialized countries didn’t try to cover this up or hide the amount of dead they had in their streets. I also remember somebody saying our government couldn’t/wouldn’t be able to build hospitals in days like were built in China for Coronavirus response guess what??? I’ve never seen somebody root against their country as hard as some of the people in this thread. It’s literally sickening.



The USS Comfort has docked in New York and will provide 1,000 beds _for non-Coronavirus patients_; the other hospitals in NY will now have more Coronavirus patients using only what they currently have. 

If I wasn't interested in the welfare of my country I would accuse governors of asking for more ventilators than they actually need, accuse doctors of stealing aid supplies for resale, make up statistics just so people would stop bringing it up, etc.


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Your point was that if the states had a problem they couldn't solve, the federal government could be called in to save the day - the states have been calling for help, the government has declined. It has been left to the states to deal with using what they have or can buy. Meanwhile other industrialized countries' governments have provided a uniform national response, which has resulted in the flattening of their curves. Our curve will look different because there was a disastrous, fatal lack of leadership from the federal government.



You'd have thought after SARS, H1N1 and Ebola, a comprehensive pandemic plan would have been implemented at the state and federal levels over the last 15 years. On the other hand, no pandemic plan I've seen (and I co-developed SCE's several years ago) includes a risk scenario where the country of origin intentionally conceals the ​contagion's outbreak during the crucial containment period from other nations, thereby enabling world-wide transmission. That unconscionable act resulted in the pandemic bypassing the mitigation/containment phase in the response plans.


----------



## bigburly912

P_A_S_1 said:


> I'd hope so. They're suppose to be used for non covid- 19 patients to free up the hospitals which are way past capacity. The problem now is personal, they are short and need more doctors and nurses.



If it’s a dug out log with a bed and an IV and someone to treat a patient then it’s better than nothing or a propaganda device built in a week that isn’t really doing anything for prolonged periods of time or used to see patients. 

And this isn’t directed to you P_A_S but look up those “hospitals” and what actually went on. 

We are all Americans. Pull together.


----------



## bigburly912

SCEMan said:


> You'd have thought after SARS, H1N1 and Ebola, a comprehensive pandemic plan would have been implemented at the state and federal levels over the last 15 years. On the other hand, no pandemic plan I've seen (and I co-developed SCE's several years ago) includes a scenario where the country of origin intentionally conceals the ​contagion's outbreak during the crucial containment period from other nations, thereby enabling world-wide transmission. That unconscionable act resulted in the pandemic bypassing the mitigation/containment phase in the response plans.



That’s going to be ignored and argued.


----------



## Tachead

Poppy said:


> Get you some pretty shoes..


My goodness, I wouldn't use that shoe to plug a sewer drain, let alone wear it[emoji23]. 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## wacbzz

bigburly912 said:


> We are all Americans. Pull together.



If only we could get “Americans” to agree what is logically essential now...


----------



## Poppy

StarHalo said:


> Your point was that if the states had a problem they couldn't solve, the federal government could be called in to save the day - <SNIP>


He said to help out!

You obviously have an axe to grind. Picking a fight with a Virginian isn't going to win you any points. If you want to voice your opinion in a place where it counts, send a letter to your Congressman, and two US Senators. That's what I did when I had a problem with glare from headlights. They are the ones who can make Federal change.

Did the US get caught with its pants down regarding being prepared for such a Pandemic? Yeah, I think so. But didn't every other country in the world? 

I'm a boy scout and like to think that I am fairly well prepared for SHTF stuff, but I learned that I didn't have enough yeast! Yeast of all things... who'd a thought? I have flour, but without yeast, how do you make bread?

I don't have any of those just about worthless surgical masks, nor any N95 masks, but I do have 4 half face respirator masks. I tried one on today. Now I remember why I didn't wear it when I was at ground Zero during 9/11. They are a challenge to breathe through. Then, they were hot and uncomfortable, now the weather here is comfortable, but having to breathe through it for hours/all day would be painful. I am sure after a week or two, I'd have a stronger diaphragm muscle, and intercostal muscles, but it won't be fun developing them. There is also anxiety produced by having to forcibly take a breath. Not fun. So when this is all over I'll add a dozen N95 masks to my gear.

I'm also low on baked beans.
I had sufficient bleach, but not enough Purell (which is much easier on my hands than continued washing, and is more portable).

Please consider what *you have learned* from this survival situation.
Hopefully our legislators have learned from it as well.


I recall the movie "_Tora Tora Tora_" in which Admiral Yamaguchi stated "I am afraid that we have just awakened a sleeping giant!" Referring to the USA and it's unparalleled manufacturing capability. For years I have expressed my concern that so much of our manufacturing has gone abroad. 

During WWII Chrysler produced jeeps. And when they were about to go bankrupt and close, Ronald Reagan, and Lee Iaccoca worked out a deal that kept them in business. Why? Reagan didn't want to lose the manufacturing capability of Chrysler, should we ever need them. New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo, does a good job of a daily update. He has consistently been stating that we need more ICU beds with ventilators. 
Why it took so long for Ford and GM to start making ventilators? IDK 

We don't have factories producing sewing machines anymore... during WWII they converted to building M1 Garand rifles, and M1 carbines.

I recently learned that many of our drugs are manufactured abroad. IMO, that is unacceptable. 

I hope that American's after all this, are willing to spend a little more to "Buy American!"


----------



## Poppy

P_A_S_1 said:


> The hospitals built in NYC are repurposed existing structures, they weren't build from the ground up. I'm not aware of anything built from the ground up except for some tents in Central Park. There was talk about converting creedmoor but would be a colossal effort as those structures have been in disrepair for decades.


There is no need to build New structures if one can convert existing structures. I think the NY Governor, and NYC Mayor, working in conjunction with the Federal Army Core of Engineers; have done a marvelous job at devising a plan to create thousands of hospital beds, in such a short period of time. They are sure that they are going to run short, especially with ventilators. Hopefully we still have enough capacity as a manufacturing country, to divert from making other products to meet the need of more ventilators.

As the current epicenter, other Governors can learn from their experience.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Poppy said:


> There is no need to build New structures if one can convert existing structures. I think the NY Governor, and NYC Mayor, working in conjunction with the Federal Army Core of Engineers; have done a marvelous job at devising a plan to create thousands of hospital beds, in such a short period of time. They are sure that they are going to run short, especially with ventilators. *Hopefully we still have enough capacity as a manufacturing country, to divert from making other products to meet the need of more ventilators.
> *
> As the current epicenter, other Governors can learn from their experience.



President Trump announced from the White House today that Ford and GE Medical are going to produce 50,000 ventilators in 100 days.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Yes, clearly, that would be a waste of time and money. That's why when they floated the creedmore option it was dead in one second. 

Watching the local news tonight they said one person died every 3 minutes today from coronavirus in NYC. It's a mess. So yeah they're doing the best they can and overall that's pretty good considering the disaster this is.


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> You'd have thought after SARS, H1N1 and Ebola, a comprehensive pandemic plan would have been implemented at the state and federal levels over the last 15 years. On the other hand, no pandemic plan I've seen (and I co-developed SCE's several years ago) includes a risk scenario where the country of origin intentionally conceals the ​contagion's outbreak during the crucial containment period from other nations, thereby enabling world-wide transmission. That unconscionable act resulted in the pandemic bypassing the mitigation/containment phase in the response plans.



Right, the dictatorship there covered it up and made the situation much worse. But it's also been made worse for all other first world countries, and yet our curve isn't leveling off. We could put stickers on every N95 mask that read "CHINA DID THIS", and our doubling rate would still be higher the next day. It just might be that the origin of the disease doesn't help explain the differences in transmission/death rates between countries. 



bigburly912 said:


> We are all Americans. Pull together.



Your first response to me was that I was clearly different because my news source wasn't the same as yours, that's not pulling together. I'm putting these facts here so you and your loved ones aren't harmed, Coronavirus is a threat to my people regardless of what some political team says about it.



Poppy said:


> Please consider what *you have learned* from this survival situation.



There are two of my fellow warehouse coworkers who have tested positive so far, out of the 19 tested positive in my town. I am still processing your orders in ten hour shifts five days a week. The learning is like a small shift in the strata way high up on the mountain, and there's a rumbling, a movement, so much learning coming..


----------



## Poppy

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> President Trump announced from the White House today that Ford and GE Medical are going to produce 50,000 ventilators in 100 days.


I might be wrong, but isn't NY Cuomo saying he'll need that many in 21 days?
New Jersey won't be far behind. A few weeks maybe.

That's good news, none the less. Hopefully GM, and Chrysler, will kick in and double those numbers.
One can hope.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Los Angeles received 170 ventilators that didn't work from the national stockpile. The FDA won't approve the use of the at home test kits because they think shipping time may be long enough for the virus sample to become inactive, jeopardizing lab results and giving false negatives. This is in addition to the problems with test kits from China having a 70-80% failure rate. Last I checked, 4 stores in Los Angeles and one in San Diego county had workers test positive for corona virus. Let's try to remember that we're all in this together. We all voted for imperfect people to run our governments so they're bound to screw some things up. Try to avoid pointing fingers right now. We can fire people and change policies when this is over but for now, we need to listen to and respect those in power trying to keep us safe so we don't make things worse for everyone else. Suck it up, stay at home, prepare for the worst, take care of those you love, and pray. That's all any of us can do. In the words of Benjamin Franklin, "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."


----------



## bigburly912

Starhalo, my very first response to you was because you said “testing is not available in the US” actually you said “tom Hanks and his wife have tested positive for Coronavirus; thankfully they are currently in Australia where testing is available, as opposed to the US.”

Let that sink in how many times you told people to quit spreading falsehoods yet that was one of your first posts in this thread. 

That isn’t wasn’t and has never been true. I can tell you that with 100% certainty. I responded with “you must be a cnn fan” Is that seriously what chapped your *** so badly that you can’t stand it? Did that one comment break your momos and make you think that I called you less of an american because you watch cnn? I’m really just wanting to understand where you are coming from because damn son that’s just sad.

I’m bowing out of this thread, everyone please stay safe, stay away from groups if at all possible. Help your neighbors especially the feeble and elderly.


----------



## coffeecup66

An interesting "spotlight" put on the subject of ventilators in the UK :


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Right, the dictatorship there covered it up and made the situation much worse. But it's also been made worse for all other first world countries, and yet our curve isn't leveling off. We could put stickers on every N95 mask that read "CHINA DID THIS", and our doubling rate would still be higher the next day. It just might be that the origin of the disease doesn't help explain the differences in transmission/death rates between countries.



Simply comparing "doubling rates" between "first world" nations doesn't take into account the widely disparate cultures, geographies, reporting quality and many other factors influencing the curve. Makes for good click bait though. This won't be a challenge our short attention span culture can easily get its head around but it's not going away until it gets worse. 

And, the dictatorship didn't make the situation much worse, it made the situation what it is today. A global pandemic, instead of a regional containment.


----------



## StarHalo

bigburly912 said:


> Starhalo, my very first response to you was because you said “testing is not available in the US” actually you said “tom Hanks and his wife have tested positive for Coronavirus; thankfully they are currently in Australia where testing is available, as opposed to the US.”



It was in context with Tom Hanks, he would not have been tested at that time if he were in the US; there was a Congressman who fell ill during that period and was attempting to get tested and was unable to - if not even a Congressman could get tested at that point, then yes, for you and me there would definitely be no testing.



bigburly912 said:


> Is that seriously what chapped your *** so badly that you can’t stand it? Did that one comment break your momos and make you think that I called you less of an american because you watch cnn? I’m really just wanting to understand where you are coming from because damn son that’s just sad.



I thought it was a bit lamentable because it was more about separation than anything we were talking about; I'm coming from a broad openness to new experiences score which means I will be primarily be concerned about threats to group over threats to self, therefore I will seek out as many information sources as possible, whereas your restricted openness to new experience leads you to distrust both the group and most sources in service to possible threats to self. It's merely two different approaches which does not require quarreling or interjecting into my posts to tell me I'm different. Yes, I'm different. I value different, that's what makes the group. I already know you don't value different, it's not about you.



bigburly912 said:


> stay away from groups


----------



## Poppy

StarHalo said:


> <Snip>
> 
> There are two of my fellow warehouse coworkers who have tested positive so far, out of the 19 tested positive in my town. I am still processing your orders in ten hour shifts five days a week. The learning is like a small shift in the strata way high up on the mountain, and there's a rumbling, a movement, so much learning coming..



You're scared, I get it. I may have been exposed 10 days ago by a Doctor and his wife, also a Doctor, and for a week I have had a tracheal, very upper bronchial, irritation. I get a ahem, ahem, too frequently, and an occasional cough. Although we have the thermostat set at 72 F, I sometimes feel a chill, and put on a fleece jacket. Only a few months ago I was tested by the WTC docs and was told I have the lungs of a 30 y/o. I don't have shortness of breath, but my mid-day naps have gotten longer. I am not well, but am confident that I will overcome what has been hammering at me for a week. 

My daughter OTOH has been fighting something for a month. It's probably viral. She has a history of Asthma. For the past four days she started running low grade fevers again. They aren't high enough to break the Cov-19 requirement but she has shortness of breath, burning eyes, GI upset, and the low grade fever. Her doctor gave her a prescription for the Covid-19 test.

For a week, we have had an exhaust fan in her bedroom window, with a window in the kitchen slightly opened to create a negative air pressure in her room to be replaced by heated air from the house. She has remained in her bedroom all week, except to take a shower. I too, watched TV from my bedroom, but not the living room to keep my distance from the grand-kids.

Today we got the results... Negative for COV19 !
Because there isn't enough data, we don't know, (nobody knows) what the false negative rate of the tests are, we are still maintaining social distancing. 

So yeah, we all have poop we are going through. Your co-workers are probably less than 60 y/o and physically fit. If they get hit with the virus, they will probably survive. I am more than 60 and am confident that I will survive, I may already be infected. A couple of days ago I called the Cov-19 hotline and my symptoms were not significant enough to get tested. I was told if they get worse, to call back. In my mind, it doesn't really matter, I'll survive it anyway. However, I am already distancing myself from my grad-kids, who live with me. I want to protect them, more than anything else.

Have Faith! This will all work out. 

Don't touch your face, and wash your hands.
Stay safe!


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> There are two of my fellow warehouse coworkers who have tested positive so far, out of the 19 tested positive in my town. I am still processing your orders in ten hour shifts five days a week. The learning is like a small shift in the strata way high up on the mountain, and there's a rumbling, a movement, so much learning coming..



I'm sorry you have to work and live in such a stressful environment. But, you're smart enough to take care of yourself and no doubt are in the safest demographic for this situation. Just remember the fatality rate is much lower than published as it doesn't take into account the multiplier of all the unknown/unrecorded cases that recover w/o hospitalization. Try to find objective news sources and stay away from agenda-driven reporting and you'll feel much better.


----------



## ven

Stay safe poppy, hope your soon feeling better, to everyone else stay safe.

I am led to believe some states have not issued any distancing rules.....yet!. This is on the news, is it true? It so far is showing to work and slowing the numbers of infected down. If you do live in a state and the news is possibly true, i would distance(2 metres) and prepare /take measures now. 

NY from reports seems about 2 weeks off the peak, maybe a little early(news report on sky yesterday). Of course no one has exact knowledge , but all stay safe and stay in if can. 

Too add , in the UK there is still front line heroes working without PPE yet!!! Approx 1 in 4 is either isolated or symptoms of covid19 in the health service. Good news, 700,000 volunteers to help out the NHS with various tasks/jobs. From food, medicine pick up/deliveries , to transporting patients home etc.


----------



## RetroTechie

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Let's try to remember that we're all in this together. We all voted for imperfect people to run our governments so they're bound to screw some things up. Try to avoid pointing fingers right now. We can fire people and change policies when this is over but for now, we need to *listen to and respect those in power* trying to keep us safe so we don't make things worse for everyone else.


NO you shouldn't listen to those in power, because that's exactly what got this whole pandemic started: people on the ground saying X, people in charge ignoring that and telling them Y. Nor should you listen to people that you usually to turn advice for (whether that be your preacher, sister in law, or colleague at work). Because they themselves don't have most answers. Or believe sellers of snake oil, random people on the internet that say X is working, or bullshit 'research' that no serious scientist would consider citing.

Instead listen to those people that know what they're talking about. The epidemic specialists, virologists, WHO experts, doctors & nurses in hospitals explaining how the pandemic will run its course, that a majority of the population will get infected @ _some_ point (so for most people it's just a matter of when not if), what works & what doesn't to keep the virus at bay _for now_, and so forth. Follow some Wikipedia references or read some scientific papers if you feel like digging into the details.

If you pay attention, you'll notice that in the first group, many people are telling you different things. Whether this is for political gain, selling product, not having good data, or just plain incompetence, who knows. But among the experts, most people are telling you essentially the same things. Yes researchers will debate how long virus particles survive on various surfaces. Yes they don't know much about animal <-> human transmission _of this virus_ - yet. But they will all tell you that if present, washing your hands properly will destroy most virus particles. They will all tell you not to touch your face, because that is what gets it from your hands into nose / mouth / eyes.

If political leaders are telling you the same things as the experts: great, that means they deal with reality & listen to those experts too. If those leaders are telling you something different, that's a problem to deal with asap. But either way, if you want facts turns to those people on the frontline who are busy gathering those facts. Not to 'leaders' that twist those facts to suit their own interests.

My government has asked people to stay at home as much as possible, and I have done so for the last few weeks. But that's not because the government told me. It's because it's clear that will slow the spread so that hospital + IC beds don't exceed capacity, and as few people as possible will die simply because hospitals are overwhelmed. And I'd prefer not to need a hospital bed right when the peak surge hits. Or put someone in the grave because I was careless, or occupy an IC bed when an elderly patient needs it. Do your bit because it's the right thing to do. Not because orange headed leader tells you what to do.


----------



## bykfixer

Good post RT. 


Boy things got lively while I slept. Valid points galore. Debate is alive and well. And um, aint nobody processing my Amazon orders right now. Only thing I buy from Amazon are Nike products………


----------



## 5S8Zh5

Dr. Vladimir Zelenko has now treated 699 coronavirus patients with 100% success using Hydroxychloroquine Sulfate, Zinc and Z-Pak 3-28-20

EXCELLENT NEWS: Hydroxychloroquine Treatment Effective on 699 Patients [ video - starts around 1:28 ]

exerpt:

_Last Wednesday, we published the success story from Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, a board-certified family practitioner in New York, after he successfully treated 350 coronavirus patients with 100 percent success using a cocktail of drugs: hydroxychloroquine, in combination with azithromycin (Z-Pak), an antibiotic to treat secondary infections, and zinc sulfate. Dr. Zelenko said he saw the symptom of shortness of breath resolved within four to six hours after treatment.

Now, Dr. Zelenko provides updates on the treatment after he successfully treated 699 COVID-19 patients in New York. In an exclusive interview with former New York Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, Dr. Vladmir Zelenko shares the results of his latest study, which showed that out of his 699 patients treated, zero patients died, zero patients intubated, and four hospitalizations.

Dr. Zelenko said the whole treatment costs only $20 over a period of 5 days with 100% success. He defines success as “Not to die.” Dr. Zelenko first posted his Facebook video message last week calling on President Trump to “advise the country that they should be taking this medication.”_


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## trailhunter

Amazing to hear trump and how hes able to retain supporters. What he said about the virus in the early stages and what hes saying today is different. A real president that cares for it's people would have taken action back in early February. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## bykfixer

Meanwhile the push backs to all these stay at home orders has begun in America. Lawyers on both sides of the political spectrum are raising questions about the constitutionality of them. Gun ranges where police train deemed "entertainment", businesses in non affected areas being forced to close, blanket quarentines on the citizenry are causing all kinds of people to ask "does the American government have this much authority and what other excuses will they use in the future to corral the American citizen?". Being implimented by individual states and localities means this thing will be around long after covid-19.


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## scout24

I've stayed largely out of this. I come to read other member's experiences and opinions, take all info with a grain of salt regardless of source, and be glad there's mainly been order worthy of CPF here. Unless I'm mistaken, nobody posting is an authority on the matter, has CDC or WHO credentials, or has Fauci's cell on speed dial. Please respect other member's opinions, as you'd have yours respected. Unless you can post credentials, all you're doing is re-posting opinions of other people and putting your own spin on them. Stop personally attaching other posters. People may disagree with you. Or your source. Get over it. Move on. I know everyone's on edge, but we're friends and family here. If you try to hammer a point home, or go after another poster, I'll delete posts rather than watch this resource and outlet be shut down. Please. Let's have this as an escape from the drama not another source of it... Thank you.


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## bykfixer

trailhunter said:


> Amazing to hear trump and how hes able to retain supporters. What he said about the virus in the early stages and what hes saying today is different. A real president that cares for it's people would have taken action back in early February.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



C'mon dude. That's like saying if Cuomo really cared about New York he would have bought those 100k ventalators back in 015. Nobody has been infallible here.


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## knucklegary

Well said Byk 2 posts ..

Looks like one out from Old Dominion last night

Hey, BB stop back to make ur two cents. Just remember, most of these guys live in their mothers basement!

Our local police gun range is still running for folks wearing badges.. So who needs stinkin badges, I border against BLM, can go target shoot anytime, but during these uncertain times, best not to waist ammo on dead trees


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## ven

trailhunter said:


> Amazing to hear trump and how hes able to retain supporters. What he said about the virus in the early stages and what hes saying today is different. A real president that cares for it's people would have taken action back in early February.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk




He did not take serious at the start which was a mistake(heck who is perfect anyway) . End of April wont be long enough either. I would say, an easy 6 months. Maybe some things will be lifted, then put back if an increase is noted(trouble is that can take 2-3 weeks).

UK wise, the gov were warned about potential pandemic, they chose not to act early on. What does annoy me , the save lives stay at home, by saving NHS etc. Yes we will do our bit regardless, no question. But its down to them, why we are in this mess from the start. Lack of funding, not listening to experts months back, years back even. NHS as with your side, health workers, police, fire etc are all heroes. They do their job the best they can no matter what is thrown at them, or lack of PPE. There are still doctors, nurses seeing to people without masks, gloves. Yes all on order and arriving all the time to various hospitals and surgeries. Our gov has not made it easy and are the ones putting them at risk. 

But its past this, we have to play our part, each and everyone of us. If its staying at home, that helps, if its keeping distance when out, that helps. 

Its amazing it seems this side, we can easily teach a dog to sit and stay..........humans.......seems a tougher challenge! 

Stay safe guys


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## markr6

Look at this craziness!!

_Drivers funneled through roadblock by police impostors during COVID-19 Pandemic_
https://kdvr.com/news/local/drivers...by-police-impostors-during-covid-19-pandemic/


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## trailhunter

knucklegary said:


> Well said Byk 2 posts ..
> 
> Looks like one out from Old Dominion last night
> 
> Hey, BB stop back to make ur two cents. Just remember, most of these guys live in their mothers basement!
> 
> Our local police gun range is still running for folks wearing badges.. So who needs stinkin badges, I border against BLM, can go target shoot anytime, but during these uncertain times, best not to waist ammo on dead trees


BLM, damn I miss California 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Kestrel

StarHalo said:


> [...] I thought it was a bit lamentable because it was more about separation than anything we were talking about; I'm coming from a broad openness to new experiences score which means I will be primarily be concerned about threats to group over threats to self, therefore I will seek out as many information sources as possible, whereas *your restricted openness to new experience leads you to *distrust both the group and most sources in service to possible threats to self. It's merely two different approaches which does not require quarreling or interjecting into my posts to tell me I'm different. Yes, I'm different. I value different, that's what makes the group. *I already know you don't value different*, it's not about you.


When these components of the overall dialog is looked at in detail, they can be categorized as personal attacks & aren't acceptable.
Thank you in advance.


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## knucklegary

Yeah TT

Most folks think CA is all beach dudes and valley girls. Northern areas are beautiful, especially around Mt Shasta


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## Kestrel

trailhunter said:


> Amazing to hear trump and how hes able to retain supporters. What he said about the virus in the early stages and what hes saying today is different. A real president that cares for it's people would have taken action back in early February.


While it is likely that at least one CPF staff member agrees with you, everyone please keep in mind that the open forum is *not* for politically-related discussions.

I understand that unfortunate events have intertwined the two to an unusual degree in this case, but others including myself enjoy this forum in part due to that particular framework.

Thank you & best regards,


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## wacbzz

The time seems apropos to mention again that the UG is active and available for discussion frowned on or prohibited here.


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## Kestrel

wacbzz said:


> The time seems apropos to mention again that the UG is active and available for discussion frowned on or prohibited here.


Thank you for the heads-up WB;

Everyone with an interest; now is the time to register there & reserve your CPF (main) username, before someone else registers with it & makes other UG members think it's you. 

*CPF Underground*


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## Hooked on Fenix

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Los Angeles received 170 ventilators that didn't work from the national stockpile. The FDA won't approve the use of the at home test kits because they think shipping time may be long enough for the virus sample to become inactive, jeopardizing lab results and giving false negatives. This is in addition to the problems with test kits from China having a 70-80% failure rate. Last I checked, 4 stores in Los Angeles and one in San Diego county had workers test positive for corona virus. Let's try to remember that we're all in this together. We all voted for imperfect people to run our governments so they're bound to screw some things up. Try to avoid pointing fingers right now. We can fire people and change policies when this is over but for now, we need to listen to and respect those in power trying to keep us safe so we don't make things worse for everyone else. Suck it up, stay at home, prepare for the worst, take care of those you love, and pray. That's all any of us can do. In the words of Benjamin Franklin, "We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."



When I posted this, the " listen to and respect those in power" part, I was referring to following the advice to stay at home and social distancing. Sorry I didn't make that clear. Too many stupid people are partying and doing what they want and we're all worse for it. Remember, hindsight is 20/20 and people make mistakes. We can go over who deserves to be fired later for lives lost, but we're in a battle against this virus and you don't replace a general in the middle of a battle. That's a discussion for after we get through this and is best done at the ballot box. I don't follow politicians orders blindly and I disagree with many of them, but I will respect them as an authority God has placed over me unless ordered to do something that goes against my beliefs. I will follow the advice to shelter in place so I don't hurt anyone else, but I reserve the right to remain sceptical about the government's response to this crisis and will rely on myself and my judgement to get me through it. I still think that the scariest words to hear are, "We're from the government and we're here to help."


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## bykfixer

HoF our constitution inverted powers for the reasons you cite. 

Never blindly trust your government. 

My governor created a stay at home order that allows folks to leave home to go to court but closed courts due to the more than 10 people in one location rule. 
Citizen pulled over: "well officer I'm out of my house heading to court"
Officer: "court is closed, go back home"
Citizen: "can I go to the liquor store?"
Officer: yup, because that is an essential".


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## StarHalo

Kestrel said:


> When these components of the overall dialog is looked at in detail, they can be categorized as personal attacks & aren't acceptable.
> Thank you in advance.



As it says in the post, it's merely two different approaches, both are required to find solutions to problems; BB made the executive decision to declare me inferior for not being his kind, I categorized that as a personal attack, Nbp handled it. My intent is to continue posting facts and information as I have from the start, but I'm finding other people are reacting very poorly to the situation.


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## P_A_S_1

In NYC we had the first corona virus related homicide a few days ago. One patient shoved another to the floor killing her. Surprised it took this long as people get anxious and tempers flair. Hospitals, especially emergency rooms, are tough places to be in general but now it's 10x worse. Supermarkets are tense too, many have that keep your distance or I'll wack you look.


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## trailhunter

bykfixer said:


> HoF our constitution inverted powers for the reasons you cite.
> 
> Never blindly trust your government.
> 
> My governor created a stay at home order that allows folks to leave home to go to court but closed courts due to the more than 10 people in one location rule.
> Citizen pulled over: "well officer I'm out of my house heading to court"
> Officer: "court is closed, go back home"
> Citizen: "can I go to the liquor store?"
> Officer: yup, because that is an essential".


Murica!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## scout24

"Sorry Kestrel, I'll watch my P's and Q's from here on in, and not try to continue to score points..."  
:shakehead

This is my approach to finding a solution, fist bumping and moving on. You're free to use your own approach.


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## Hooked on Fenix

bykfixer said:


> HoF our constitution inverted powers for the reasons you cite.
> 
> Never blindly trust your government.
> 
> My governor created a stay at home order that allows folks to leave home to go to court but closed courts due to the more than 10 people in one location rule.
> Citizen pulled over: "well officer I'm out of my house heading to court"
> Officer: "court is closed, go back home"
> Citizen: "can I go to the liquor store?"
> Officer: yup, because that is an essential".



This will be a conversation for later once the courts open back up. Someone is bound to ask a judge why booze and pot are essential and the gun shops and courts are not. However, to avoid going down that rabbit hole and getting this thread closed, let's leave it at that and save that conversation for the Underground.


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## P_A_S_1

Hooked on Fenix said:


> This will be a conversation for later once the courts open back up. Someone is bound to ask a judge why booze and pot are essential and the gun shops and courts are not. However, to avoid going down that rabbit hole and getting this thread closed, let's leave it at that and save that conversation for the Underground.



Personally don't care but the formers could be delivered where the latter two cannot, maybe that's the difference, idk.


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## bykfixer

Guess what? 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...cenes-from-china-s-deadly-coronavirus-crisis/
We were all warned 60+ days ago.


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## markr6

Are certain states really prohibiting you from driving around? I think there is some confusion from the actual wording "stay at home". Sure, if you STAY there 100% you're fine. But Walking your dog around the block is certainly fine. But how about 1/4 mile away? 1/2 mile? Getting in your car to walk him at the park 8mi away?

Over here in Michigan and Indiana locking yourself inside doesn't seem to be the case. In fact, the county and state is encouraging going for a hike in the woods, ride bikes, whatever. All while keeping distance and not gathering at places like pavilions, restrooms and campgrounds of course (which have been officially closed). I even got an email from the DNR talking about going fishing and make sure you have your 2020 license. Yet some people here take the "stay at home" literally...like, running and looking out for the schutzstaffel while going to the mailbox because the don't have papers.


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## bykfixer

What most states are after markr is folks not hang out in public places in crowds. Especially indoors where viruses tend to survive better than outdoors. Climate control systems are great inventions for us humans but viruses dig it too. 

Are some states actually enacting marshall law? I haven't heard of any. But what we are seeing is law officers being dispatched to crowds. Meanwhile the vast majority are just trying to do what was reccomended by the cdc a few weeks ago in order to flatten the curve.


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## ven

Police have been using drones in the UK, to disperse/keep an eye on! They have been told off to, for going too far with the use.

My 1st day back tomorrow after 2 weeks off, looking forward to the quiet roads/motorway. 

Little monty ........Always look on the bright side of life......


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## knucklegary

LA County Sheriff Alex Villanueva this morning reopened local gun shops ~ Source CNN!

Regardless of our Gubbeners order, gun shops never closed up in my County :nana:


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## trailhunter

Wow chris Cuomo infected.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## wacbzz

I’ve already posted above the silliness that is the stay-at-home orders from both V and MD. Folks really need to read those actual executive orders.

But this:



bykfixer said:


> Citizen pulled over: "well officer I'm out of my house heading to court"
> Officer: "court is closed, go back home"
> Citizen: "can I go to the liquor store?"
> Officer: yup, because that is an essential".



I’m sure you just randomly picked the ABC example as something tongue in cheek, but the ABC store being open really is essential. Alcohol withdrawal for a true alcoholic is a potential disaster waiting to happen. Plenty of folks have ended up hospitalized or even died trying to stop their addiction themselves.

Again, I go back to my call for people to logically decide what is “essential” and what is not because the governor’s of those two states did the most basic of deciding...


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## StarHalo

I originally posted this over in the music thread, but it might be more helpful here; a prolific recording artist who is locked down has started a "Quarantine Project" to provide relief for those similarly stuck at home - I'd strongly recommend reviewing this video before posting here:


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## bykfixer

I was doing tongue and cheek wac. Glad you caught that. 

I read the Ralphs decree in vuh-jin-yuh. Not much change really, just enforeceable now. Closing the beaches could have been done by the localities, but as the constitution dictates, the state stepped in and did it, perhaps because localities couldn't handle it? 

Too funny Gary.

Congratz Ven. Gotta pay for all those tools, watches and those storm trooper trainers.


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## markr6

trailhunter said:


> Wow chris Cuomo infected.



Yeah that's too bad. They're in Atlanta, right? He probably comes into contact with a gazillion people every day.


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## trailhunter

markr6 said:


> Yeah that's too bad. They're in Atlanta, right? He probably comes into contact with a gazillion people every day.


NY

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## jabe1

I’m in Ohio. The governor ordered a stay at home unless an essential service, with many caveats. I have read through it and it’s very vague. 
I still see landscapers out fertilizing residential lawns and cleaning up leaves.
Myself, I am a contractor, I have been primarily installing custom closets for one particular company. I am staying at home. The company I contract to is still pushing for us to install.
They are saying that the way the guidelines are written, we can still go out (even though at times we can be in two or three homes per day).
The State is relying on people exercising common sense which there is about as much of a shortage of as PPE.

Can and Should are very different...


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## Greta

StarHalo said:


> As it says in the post, it's merely two different approaches, both are required to find solutions to problems; BB made the executive decision to declare me inferior for not being his kind, I categorized that as a personal attack, Nbp handled it. *My intent is to continue posting facts and information as I have from the start, but I'm finding other people are reacting very poorly to the situation.*



_*Emphasis mine. *_

Facts and information are always welcome as long as they are accurate with valid reference. How other people are reacting is on them.. not you. And it is most definitely not up to you to get into a cat-pissing fight trying to establish superiority. As a matter of fact it's not up to _*ANYONE *_to go there. 

There is so much information out there right now and it changes almost hourly. Let's all try to remember that and try not to be part of the problem of spreading misinformation and most of all _panic_. People are scared... as they should be! But it doesn't have to be to the point where we are afraid to continue living. Believe it or not, life does go on. It's just a little bit different right now. And we adjust. If others want to be stupid... Darwinism. Don't be part of it. Just be calm... and be smart. It's really not that hard. 

AND... be kind. This isn't a contest to establish superiority over anyone. This forum is not for anyone to declare "HA! I'm right, you're wrong!" Get over it. Take it somewhere else. We are all here to support each other and help each other. Let's do that... and leave the egos at the door please.

Stay well my friends... and be safe and smart... :grouphug:


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## markr6

jabe1 said:


> I’m in Ohio. The governor ordered a stay at home unless an essential service, with many caveats. I have read through it and it’s very vague.



That's likely the problem. I guess they can't really spell it out word for word and list every business. I had an appraiser come to my house today...was he covered in germs? He touched light switches and door knobs. May not be "essential" but...sort of in my mind.

Bottom line is, you can go out and follow the guidelines. Until things get really crazy...you'll know what that happens!

That landscaping crew is a good example. Just because they're not on an "essential" list doesn't mean they have to shut down and twiddle their thumbs at home. They're outside, probably not dealing with the public, and hopefully following the guidelines.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

The virus has certainly pulled the curtain back from late-night television and revealed how talentless the hosts are.


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## trailhunter

All, make sure your taking your vitamins and exercising and when possible getting some sun outside or taking vitamin d supplements.

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## Kestrel

trailhunter said:


> All, make sure your taking your vitamins and exercising and when possible getting some sun outside or taking vitamin d supplements.


C, D; and are some saying Zinc as well ?


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## trailhunter

Kestrel said:


> C, D; and are some saying Zinc as well ?


Yep, C and D and Zinc too, 15-30mg. I do 15mg a day for a low dose.



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## jabe1

markr6 said:


> That's likely the problem. I guess they can't really spell it out word for word and list every business. I had an appraiser come to my house today...was he covered in germs? He touched light switches and door knobs. May not be "essential" but...sort of in my mind.
> 
> Bottom line is, you can go out and follow the guidelines. Until things get really crazy...you'll know what that happens!
> 
> That landscaping crew is a good example. Just because they're not on an "essential" list doesn't mean they have to shut down and twiddle their thumbs at home. They're outside, probably not dealing with the public, and hopefully following the guidelines.




The problem with the landscapers is that there are two or three of them in a truck cab. Then they go about their other business after work. If one gets sick at the store or wherever, the others get it and spread it to their respective families and it continues.
There are also varying opinions out there as to how long this can hang in the air, or whether it can move just on moisture in your breath, even when not coughing or sneezing.
In the south Asian nations, they wear face masks out of caution not just for themselves, but for the safety of others also.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

So, to mask or not to mask? I've read conflicting opinions. Any thoughts?


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## bigburly912

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> So, to mask or not to mask? I've read conflicting opinions. Any thoughts?



It will help keep you safe because you won’t be breathing in others large respiratory droplets and it also helps keep you from touching your face. Only downfall is they lose integrity once they get wet. I have a cloth mask that I can insert my own cotton filters into. I can send a picture if any of you want to make your own.


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## trailhunter

Mask.

Learn from China.

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## archimedes

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> So, to mask or not to mask? I've read conflicting opinions. Any thoughts?



Heard some discussion earlier today that the CDC may be changing their recommendations ... so, currently under review.


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## bykfixer

Well CG, you can always do the cowboy bank robber thing. A fellow who I see everyday was wearing a bandana on his face. He joked he was going to the bank to make a withdrawl but had forgotten his 6 shooter. I laughed and said "dude, you can rob a bank with a booger right now". 

I'd like to steer the conversation to a thank you direction. Hopefully others will join in. 
- To start, thanks Greta and the staff for keeping this place going and allowing this lively discussion to proceed. 
- Thanks to delivery people. Truckers, mail carriers, the Amazon driver, the people keeping packages moving right now. 
- Thanks food suppliers, whether restaraunt workers, grocery clerks, pizza deliveries, farmers, the people making sure we still have food to eat. 
- Thanks to first responders. Police, ems, fire, dispatchers, security, the people keeping us safe. 
- Thanks to folks in the medical proffesion. Drug stores, hospitals, doctors offices, the folks putting themselves out front right now. 
- Thanks to scientists trying to solve this one while also coming up with solutions for the next one. 
- Thanks to geeks for keeping the internet running, for fixing broken stuff, for solving issues. 
- Thanks to pet industry folks for keeping our friends taken care of. 
- Thanks to makes those delicious cakes I keep eating, my dentist thanks you as well mam. 
- Thanks to the banking industry for helping with cash flow right now. 

I'm sure I left out a lot of heroes so please, others take it from here.


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## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> So, to mask or not to mask? I've read conflicting opinions. Any thoughts?



If I had a mask, I'd give it to an older person; I don't know that all these masks on younger folk are a good look..

In other news, now there's a magnitude 6.5 earthquake in Idaho:


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## Kestrel

I miss pizza.


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## StarHalo

Kestrel said:


> I miss pizza.



lol, the post you deleted was me showing how easy it was to get pizza - not only are the shoppes still open, but it's the easiest order-out food you can get right now. Get you some..


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## bykfixer

- Thanks to the folks working extra hard in food processing plants since suddenly vegan food doesn't seem as popular as cow, bird or pig right now. 
- Thanks to the garbage collectors and sanitation workers. 
- Thanks to the factory workers. 
- Thanks to whomever broke the bosses computer, thus preventing more dynamic approaches to avoid being sued by employees who end up getting sick. Three days in a row with no new policies. Yay!! 
- Thanks to the citizens of the planet doing their part to flatten the curve. 
- Thanks to the army corp of engineers, national guard units and soldiers serving their country.……


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## knucklegary

Thank you Byk for your time composing posts.. and adding some humor to this pandemic:buddies:


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## idleprocess

Week and-a-half into my own personal WFH lockdown. The WFH setup is reasonably satisfactory with a 42" 4K monitor that can divide into 2 or 4 logical displays - I can largely replicate my 3-monitor setup at work with this. Finally got all my UPSs working so I can weather power outages of ~20 minutes without stopping; if I try to revive one of the larger units I could push that to an hour easily. My employer's VPN resources have so far proven to be up to the challenge - moving ~50 Mb/s to/from servers in data centers hasn't been an issue. I do find myself losing track of time now that I rarely leave my neighborhood; average daily miles driven has dropped from ~60 to <6 and I find myself leaving the neighborhood perhaps every third day.

Nonessential businesses are taking a beating in the DFW area. I do wonder if my favorite Thai restaurant will survive - last time I ordered a to-go meal they indicated that I was their 5th customer of the day _and it was almost 6 o'clock_. Home Depot - normally doing brisk business on a weekend - was exceptionally vacant on a Sunday afternoon, closing at 6. I've seen a _bit_ more of my neighbors lately. Social distancing is a thing that I'm seeing in the DFW metro with _reasonable_ consistency although city of Dallas has apparently started to shut parks due to lack thereof. Shelter-in-place orders do look to be running through the duration of April, however, and school campuses are closed until early May.

Hang in there folks - it looks like this is going to run through a chunk of the second quarter.


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## wweiss

My reading of the virus facts to date is that simply good nutrition trumps supplements, which have no proven benefit.


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## ven

Masks are a tough one CG, many conflicting reports. Here in the UK medical specialists pretty much said its the ones infected who should be wearing them. Once moist which can be 30 mins of wearing, they are not effective and the virus can get through the mask. Also when wearing a mask, your more likely to touch face(by fidgeting, move, adjust it)than you would without it on.
It can also give some a false sense of safety, which may lead them to taking more risk(getting closer to others etc)

If you do decide, change regular and dont keep on for long periods, wash hands prior to removing or use antibac cleaner if out and about.

I am no doctor of course, so take my answer with a pinch of salt. The info has been gathered by health specialists on BBC/SKY .As with anything, this can change as time goes on.

Right now, the best protection is staying in. Followed by keeping distance and travelling only when needed. Washing hands before and after pretty much anything! 

Stay safe, off to work myself soon. There are quite a few measures in place/changes since 2 weeks back.


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## trailhunter

wweiss said:


> My reading of the virus facts to date is that simply good nutrition trumps supplements, which have no proven benefit.


If your eating a healthy diet, you get the supplements you need. If you dont, supplements will be your best bet.

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## scout24

I'll throw in my two cents re: masks and gloves. I've read a few different studies saying the average person touches their face between 10 and 20 times per hour. I find gloves are a tangible reminder not to do this. I'll put them on when I leave the house, and take them off to wash when I get home. Masks I find even in these times all but stop people in their tracks if they come around a corner in the grocery store and see you wearing one. The number of people here who are not practicing social distancing bothers me as it's so easy to do. Wearing a mask and gloves at least gives others pause...


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## trailhunter

True, society is not yet ready to see the reality of protection that is going to be needed on a daily basis. Many in my area are wearing masks so it's good that it's becoming the norm to see people with protection on.


I've read stories of people stopping individuals wearing masks being asked that to take it off as it looks weird hah, I'd tell them to worry about their own damn health if I got stopped by someone.

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## ven

I have had a mask on all day from 5:30am, it’s now nearly 2pm. I can categorically tell you.........it ain’t fun! More of a runny nose from the heat (don’t have one without mask). Constant moving and adjusting through the day. IMHO all counter productive , but It’s works rules . So going with the flow, one day at a time.

Stay safe all


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## 5S8Zh5

Whenever I enter an establishment (maybe a couple times a week) I'll wear a mask and nitrile gloves. The mask keeps me from touching my nose or mouth, and my glasses cover my eyes. The gloves can be removed and if removed correctly you fingers will be germ free - but a hand wash is in order when I get home.


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## lion504

I think most of the 'expert' opinions on facemasks are BS. Only logical reasons I can come up as to why so many keep downplaying the value of facemasks are (a) prevent panic buying because stocks are needed for medical community or (b) ..... I give up, I can't think of another good reason. :shrug:

I spent most of yesterday deciphering and tweaking this template, created by a UofMinn alum in collaboration with some MDs. In the end, it came out pretty good. I don't have too many N95s, so this is supplemental.

Lack of N95s was the main blindspot in my preparations. I was too focused on power and light.


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## trailhunter

Agreed it's to prevent panic buying. They need to ramp up mask and glove production for the entire country to wear 

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## markr6

lion504 said:


> I think most of the 'expert' opinions on facemasks are BS. Only logical reasons I can come up as to why so many keep downplaying the value of facemasks are (a) prevent panic buying because stocks are needed for medical community or (b) ..... I give up, I can't think of another good reason. :shrug:



They said in the press conference last night that the other reason was "optics". I have a constantly runny/stuffy nose. Not bad, but enough that I blow my nose what feels like ever minute of the day. A mask would be pretty much useless for me I think.


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## Poppy

wweiss said:


> My reading of the virus facts to date is that simply good nutrition trumps supplements, which have no proven benefit.


Sorry my friend, but I disagree, with the material that you have read.

The medical profession used to use leaches for blood letting, later they scoffed at Dr. Linus Pauling for suggesting that Vitamin C helped prevent a cold. Not so much anymore.

I know that it is anecdotal, but although I generally eat a healthy diet, I have found that if I regularly supplement with a Multi vitamin/mineral, and extra Vitamin C, I won't get a cold all season. There are years, that I am careless, and don't take a supplement for months at a time. I might get two or three colds that season. Well, yeah... that doesn't happen anymore. If I have been bad, at the first sign of a cold, I double up, and then become regular again.

IMO during this outbreak, it is important to stay hydrated, take supplements, get rest, maintain a healthy attitude (stay in touch with family and friends, on the phone, face-time etc), stay at home, if you go out... keep your distance! wash your hands, and face, don't touch your face. 

You might also consider, that if you go food shopping, disinfect anything that you bring in, take a shower and change your clothes, and wash those clothes. If you can't wash them, plastic bag them for a few days.

I saw a video yesterday of a doctor showing how to "sterile technique" your food when you bring it home. It really makes sense. Imagine that everything that you bring in has sparkles on them and you want to wash them off before you store them.


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## markr6

I agree with the multivitamin. $6.99 for a bottle that lasts 3 months...why not. And the sleep you mentioned is so important for your immune system. Most people I know probably get 6 hours. They "feel" like that's enough, but I don't think that's very good. I've been getting 8+ lately. I know everyone can't do that for many reasons. Then others wake up at 5am so they can go work out; I always thought that was kind of strange...do they cancel each other out?

I have to admit I don't wash any groceries. Seems like too much work. But produce just lying in a pile at the store at room temp? That seems so dirty and archaic now when you think about it.


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## Poppy

Sterile technique for groceries


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## bykfixer

Good vitamin suppliments trumps cheap vitamin suppliments. Even cheap ones are better than nothing, yet nothing humans have produced in a lab are as good as mother natures nutritional suppliments.


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## knucklegary

A few drops of bleach in water kitchen sink wash basin for veggies. Let them float around awhile, rinse and dry before storing 

Zinc & copper great for boosting immune..

.. plenty minerals in eating natural vegetables

Zinc supplements is also good for maintaining testosterone in men over 40.. Good for "boing" effect 😊

Sourse: Sesame Street.. Cookie Monster


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## P_A_S_1

I actually just finished a series of medical lectures where various topics were discussed including the benefits of vitamins. The short was they provide no to very minimal benefit to those that eat a proper diet. Some specific vitamins showed more benefit then others but results were minimal and more research was needed. Those with poor diets or lack the accessibility to good nutrition could on the other hand benefit from supplements. Surprisingly, at least to me, some vitamins if maga dosed can have toxic effects. The short was save your money and eat a balanced diet.


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## trailhunter

P_A_S_1 said:


> I actually just finished a series of medical lectures where various topics were discussed including the benefits of vitamins. The short was they provide no to very minimal benefit to those that eat a proper diet. Some specific vitamins showed more benefit then others but results were minimal and more research was needed. Those with poor diets or lack the accessibility to good nutrition could on the other hand benefit from supplements. Surprisingly, at least to me, some vitamins if maga dosed can have toxic effects. The short was save your money and eat a balanced diet.


The thing is people wont eat a balanced diet. But yes, eating a balanced diet and talking to a nutritionist to understand what a balanced diet means is the best, it will also lower your cholesterol and other benefits.

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## P_A_S_1

Poppy said:


> ?....
> 
> The medical profession used to use leaches for blood letting, later they scoffed at Dr. Linus Pauling for suggesting that Vitamin C helped prevent a cold. Not so much anymore.
> ....



Unfortunately it actually shows little to no benefit in that regard. Vitamin d shows some promise but they're still doing testing. Despite that I'll still pop a vitamin c (mostly because I have a huge bottle that I can't get rid of) if I feel sick.


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## P_A_S_1

trailhunter said:


> The thing is people wont eat a balanced diet. But yes, eating a balanced diet and talking to a nutritionist to understand what a balanced diet means is the best, it will also lower your cholesterol and other benefits.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



Some people do have bad diets. On average I'll eat fast food maybe once a year. My friend and his family have it weekly if not more. Cholesterol is a tough one as it's not food alone that causes it. I eat well, love veggies, and still have high cholesterol. My body just produces a lot of it.


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## bykfixer

While in my late 20's I used to take StressTabs everyday due to high energy required job at the time. It was more about brain efficiency than stress, but they seemed to be a better idea than a coffee IV. After about 45 days I stopped taking them because they made my brain work like an espresso IV. Good gosh!! Some of it was adrenaline from being so happy to have my brain working so much better, like memory, processing complicated scenarios etc. But at some point my brain refused to shut down. Fatigue set in but the off switch would not activate. I stopped taking them and things returned to normal. That was in the early 1990's. 

During this covid thing I find I'm craving comfort food a lot more than usual, so instead of getting mega doses of goodys from my foods it's a lot more yummy stuff for a mental boost without the nutritional benefit. The last couple of days I have been better behaved and it really makes a difference in how much better I feel physically which is boosting my moral much better than a chunk of chocolate cake.


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## knucklegary

I don't eat dairy products.. so a calcium supplement with meals helps. I do eat plenty nuts and fruit, and grains along with my morning vit intake

Fish oil, i can attest works to relieve joint pain. Also lowers bad cholesterol numbers.. 

Along with plenty aerobic type exercise.. 

I paddle around the ocean shores lookin for waves.. at same time lookin for great whites keeps ya alert!


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## Greta

As someone who has experienced Vitamin D toxicity, people need to be informed before popping those supplements.... 

_"Vitamin D toxicity, also called hypervitaminosis D, is a rare but potentially serious condition that occurs when you have excessive amounts of vitamin D in your body.__Vitamin D toxicity is usually caused by megadoses of vitamin D supplements — not by diet or sun exposure. That's because your body regulates the amount of vitamin D produced by sun exposure, and even fortified foods don't contain large amounts of vitamin D....."_

Click Here for more info


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## P_A_S_1

^ Yep. 

Some of the younger guys I worked with were taking all sorts of supplements especially those protein shakes. A few of them got kidney stones. I'm reluctant to take anything and cautious when I do.


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## bykfixer

A few years ago my doc said I need more vitamin D. I said "doc, I work outdoors, how can that be?" 
He asked if I wear sunscreen and I responded "of course". He reccomended rotating a body part uncoated. Ya know what? It worked. 
I pick a part such as an ear, or a hand not to be coated and my vitamin D levels are fine now. 

Fear does not stop death. 
Yet it does stop life. 

Gary, no wonder yalls numbers are staying flat. Shark alert adrenaline might just be a cure for covid 19.


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## knucklegary

^^ I read same about vit D can be bad news for women taking meda doses to counter effect osteoporosis

Byk, CA state beaches are closed up tight.. "private" surf spots may get visited by some kids, but in general looks like it will be awhile before I am getting wet soon


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## Hooked on Fenix

Home Depot is no longer selling N95 masks to the public. They're sending them all to first responders. Be wise in your use of these if you have any.


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## trailhunter

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Home Depot is no longer selling N95 masks to the public. They're sending them all to first responders. Be wise in your use of these if you have any.


This

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## nbp

So genuine question, not being antagonistic. What is the game plan here? We’ve got everyone safe at home, “flattening the curve”... good... now what? Is the idea that no one goes anywhere or interacts with anyone until they can vaccinate the whole country? We could be 12-18 months from that. This current lifestyle with millions out of work and unable to come in contact with other humans isn’t sustainable for anywhere near that long. I read everyday the news reports and I can’t quite grasp the end game.


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## Poppy

P_A_S_1 said:


> I actually just finished a series of medical lectures where various topics were discussed including the benefits of vitamins. The short was they provide no to very minimal benefit to those that eat a proper diet. Some specific vitamins showed more benefit then others but results were minimal and more research was needed. Those with poor diets or lack the accessibility to good nutrition could on the other hand benefit from supplements. Surprisingly, at least to me, some vitamins if maga dosed can have toxic effects. The short was save your money and eat a balanced diet.


Medical studies are often so flawed, that when you examine the data you wonder "how did they come to that conclusion" then you look to see who paid for the study. When it comes to diet, there are so many con-founders, that it is nearly impossible to eliminate or account for them all. 

I did a weekend long seminar that was very chemistry intensive on how the body digests food. Dr. Seaman presented on how to decrease inflammation in the body; how some foods digestive pathways, increase inflammation, and other foods, increase the production of free radical scavengers and decrease inflammation. The short story was... eat fresh fruits and vegetables, and animals that eat grass, and fish (not farmed fish). Avoid grains and certain oils. Grass fed beef, not grain fed beef, and free range chickens. Dairy in moderation should be from grass fed animals.

Multi vitamins, tumeric, and omega 3 fatty acid supplements were also recommended.

I was getting up twice a night to urinate, and 2 - 3 months after changing my diet, only once a night, and now, not at all.

Yet the Harvard Medical School still promote the MyPlate where 25% of one's diet should be whole grains.

Regarding megadoses: too much of anything isn't good. The last I looked at it, the concern was with the FAT soluble vitamins A,D,E and K. They are stored in the body. IIRC it was hyper-vitaminosis of vitamin A, that was the problem, and at that it was a self resolving issue when the dosage was stopped.

Its my opinion that it is a good idea to take a multi every day or every other day. If it is proven that I wasted my money, they wouldn't have to go far to find a stash of flashlights that don't get used.


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## trailhunter

nbp said:


> So genuine question, not being antagonistic. What is the game plan here? We’ve got everyone safe at home, “flattening the curve”... good... now what? Is the idea that no one goes anywhere or interacts with anyone until they can vaccinate the whole country? We could be 12-18 months from that. This current lifestyle with millions out of work and unable to come in contact with other humans isn’t sustainable for anywhere near that long. I read everyday the news reports and I can’t quite grasp the end game.


Likely we will all need to wear masks as we go out when the nation starts turning on the engine until there is a vaccine available. There would be global stringent travel probably including requiring masks.

If we open it back up, all the work that was done so far will be reversed and well go through all this all over again.

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## Greta

knucklegary said:


> ^^ I read same about vit D can be bad news for women taking meda doses to counter effect osteoporosis



That is exactly what happened to me when I turned 50 years old. My doctor told me I needed to start on Vit D supplements. Um... I live in freakin' AZ. Sunscreen or not, I get my D just walking out to my car. After three weeks on the D, I was *SICK*. So I did some googling and found that I was D toxic. The recommendation for treatment was "Go to the ER!"... reading further, I found that a dose of Ativan would be helpful. I happened to have an old 'script. Popped a pill and was right as rain within an hour. But it was still a bit scary... and totally unnecessary. I made sure I let my doctor know that... :ironic:


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## Poppy

nbp said:


> So genuine question, not being antagonistic. What is the game plan here? We’ve got everyone safe at home, “flattening the curve”... good... now what? Is the idea that no one goes anywhere or interacts with anyone until they can vaccinate the whole country? We could be 12-18 months from that. This current lifestyle with millions out of work and unable to come in contact with other humans isn’t sustainable for anywhere near that long. I read everyday the news reports and I can’t quite grasp the end game.


IDK the end game.

At some point in time, assuming that those infected and recovered, have immunity, then there will be a certain amount of "herd immunity" resulting... if I understand it, the virus will not be able to ramp up as quickly as it is currently ramping up.

It has been described that flattening the curve may not cause an overall decrease in those infected, but may spread out the time chart of the cases, so that our medical system will be able to handle the flow, of those who need hospitalization, and those who need ventilators. It's been reported that we may see 40-70% of the population infected, with most recovering, which will add to the herd immunity. 

At some point in time, I imagine it will be determined that certain areas have made it to the other side of the curve, the hospitals are catching their breath, and certain classes of workers will be allowed to return to work, (perhaps if tested negative, or immune).

I don't think the rest of the country will be able to relax until after we see New York and New Jersey turn the corner.
Just my thoughts.
POppy


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## trailhunter

Greta said:


> That is exactly what happened to me when I turned 50 years old. My doctor told me I needed to start on Vit D supplements. Um... I live in freakin' AZ. Sunscreen or not, I get my D just walking out to my car. After three weeks on the D, I was *SICK*. So I did some googling and found that I was D toxic. The recommendation for treatment was "Go to the ER!"... reading further, I found that a dose of Ativan would be helpful. I happened to have an old 'script. Popped a pill and was right as rain within an hour. But it was still a bit scary... and totally unnecessary. I made sure I let my doctor know that... :ironic:


Very interesting, normally vitamin D can be taken in large quantities, its fat soluble so people dont pee it out. Good to know it does have effect, seemed like a relatively innocous vitamin.

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## archimedes

nbp said:


> So genuine question, not being antagonistic. What is the game plan here? We’ve got everyone safe at home, “flattening the curve”... good... now what? Is the idea that no one goes anywhere or interacts with anyone until they can vaccinate the whole country? We could be 12-18 months from that. This current lifestyle with millions out of work and unable to come in contact with other humans isn’t sustainable for anywhere near that long. I read everyday the news reports and I can’t quite grasp the end game.



I think before we commit the entire country ( world? ) to indefinite "lockdown" , it might be a good idea to find out what percentage of the population is willing to be vaccinated.

In the US, only about half of those recommended to receive vaccination for seasonal influenza infection actually do so. Rates vary a bit year-to-year, and state-to-state, but are usually right around 50%

For a virus this infectious, 50% is too low for effective "herd-immunity"

Or is the plan that this corona vaccination will be mandatory ? No opt-outs ?

Has there been any validated polling on this question ? Can we get that data soon ?

Might raise some thorny questions about how that happens, or not, too :thinking:


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## P_A_S_1

I was prescribed vitamin d when my blood work showed a deficiency years ago and thought it odd but took them as directed. Months later it turned out to be lab error in testing so I probably never needed it.


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## archimedes

P_A_S_1 said:


> .... Months later it turned out to be lab error in testing so I probably never needed it.



Leaders across the globe are making a lot of momentous decisions based on data from brand-new lab tests, being (understandably) hastily pressed into service ....


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## scout24

NBP- All good questions. I am hoping that people start taking this seriously, and go out as little as possible. This, hopefully, lets medical staff work towards a treatment rather than have to treat infected people. I fear greatly that for a good percentage of people the reality of this won't hit home until bodies stack up in their own town. This is uncharted territory. The more we cooperate with recommendations from the medical powers that be, the faster we can come out the other side. Things will be different. There's no way around that. Transparency as to what we're dealing with would probably hasten the process. End game is develop treatment and vaccine as quickly as possible, keep the number of cases as low as possible, and return to "normal" as quick as possible. It will take as long as it takes, longer if we continue to not take it seriously. We have access to every book ever written, every movie ever made, every game ever played without leaving our collective couch. Forums to socialize in. Learn a new language. Study. Stay home. The life you save may be your own.


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## nbp

Poppy said:


> IDK the end game.
> 
> At some point in time, assuming that those infected and recovered, have immunity, then there will be a certain amount of "herd immunity" resulting... if I understand it, the virus will not be able to ramp up as quickly as it is currently ramping up.
> 
> It has been described that flattening the curve may not cause an overall decrease in those infected, but may spread out the time chart of the cases, so that our medical system will be able to handle the flow, of those who need hospitalization, and those who need ventilators. It's been reported that we may see 40-70% of the population infected, with most recovering, which will add to the herd immunity.
> 
> At some point in time, I imagine it will be determined that certain areas have made it to the other side of the curve, the hospitals are catching their breath, and certain classes of workers will be allowed to return to work, (perhaps if tested negative, or immune).
> 
> I don't think the rest of the country will be able to relax until after we see New York and New Jersey turn the corner.
> Just my thoughts.
> POppy



I totally get the intention, for sure. It’s “easy” to catch up and flatten the curve when most people aren’t interacting with others. But this level of unemployment is unsustainable for any length of time. $1200 is a nice gesture, but we’re just getting into peak earning for seasonal work and lots of summertime businesses right now. I’ve had more than $1200 worth of work canceled just this week. Very soon the effects of poverty, homelessless, loss of medical coverage will begin to affect a great many of the healthy people in the country, not just the old and sick. And with 50 million people over the age of 65 if even a fraction of them get it, you would have to spread it out over literally years to accommodate them all effectively in hospitals. I don’t know if just waiting it out is a feasible option... perhaps it will just kinda burn itself out like some of the previous coronaviruses have. That’s probably the best case scenario. We can hope!



archimedes said:


> I think before we commit the entire country ( world? ) to indefinite "lockdown" , it might be a good idea to find out what percentage of the population is willing to be vaccinated.
> 
> In the US, only about half of those recommended to receive vaccination for seasonal influenza infection actually do so. Rates vary a bit year-to-year, and state-to-state, but are usually right around 50%
> 
> For a virus this infectious, 50% is too low for effective "herd-immunity"
> 
> Or is the plan that this corona vaccination will be mandatory ? No opt-outs ?
> 
> Has there been any validated polling on this question ? Can we get that data soon ?
> 
> Might raise some thorny questions about how that happens, or not, too :thinking:



I never get the flu, so I never get the flu shot. On the other hand, my customers don’t deny me access to their homes on the basis of whether or not I had a flu shot. Right now, older and at risk people are not letting any workers come to their homes. If a covid19 shot was the only way for them to let me come and do work for them, I suppose I would have to get it. Not much choice there, hey? If we knew that people once infected couldn’t be infected again (we don’t really know this) I almost would have rather just gotten it right away, self isolated the two weeks and beat it down so I could just go about life without so much concern. 



scout24 said:


> NBP- All good questions. I am hoping that people start taking this seriously, and go out as little as possible. This, hopefully, lets medical staff work towards a treatment rather than have to treat infected people. I fear greatly that for a good percentage of people the reality of this won't hit home until bodies stack up in their own town. This is uncharted territory. The more we cooperate with recommendations from the medical powers that be, the faster we can come out the other side. Things will be different. There's no way around that. Transparency as to what we're dealing with would probably hasten the process. End game is develop treatment and vaccine as quickly as possible, keep the number of cases as low as possible, and return to "normal" as quick as possible. It will take as long as it takes, longer if we continue to not take it seriously. We have access to every book ever written, every movie ever made, every game ever played without leaving our collective couch. Forums to socialize in. Learn a new language. Study. Stay home. The life you save may be your own.



Yeah, it’s fun for a few days or a week or two. But I’m sorry - most can’t just not work for months and months. That’s what I mean; what’s the end game? Staying home indefinitely is not really much of a plan. 


Perhaps my question was really more rhetorical, after all. The fact is, you’re right, scout24. Trying to control this is pretty uncharted. There probably isn’t really any solid plan. As my friend says “we’re building this plane as we fly it”. In the past, a disease came through, killed who it killed, and people accepted it and went on with life. Today, people do not want to accept that there are problems that cannot be easily scienced or legislated away, and expect answers and solutions. Even when there really isn’t any good ones.


----------



## wacbzz

nbp said:


> So genuine question, not being antagonistic. What is the game plan here? We’ve got everyone safe at home, “flattening the curve”... good... now what? Is the idea that no one goes anywhere or interacts with anyone until they can vaccinate the whole country? We could be 12-18 months from that. This current lifestyle with millions out of work and unable to come in contact with other humans isn’t sustainable for anywhere near that long. I read everyday the news reports and I can’t quite grasp the end game.



Reported...








Not sure where you’re located, but “everyone safe at home” is most certainly not the case where I live. I was having the exact discussion this morning with a co -worker (standing 6 feet apart, of course) about just who it was that was actually “staying at home.” I was in Home Depot yesterday getting some keys made for work and there were at least 50 people in there, not counting workers. The only “social distancing” was at the cash registers because they have tape on the floor. Banks are open. CVS is open. Landscapers are working. A large number of restaurants are still open doing take out/to go. Wawa is still open with way more than 10 people inside. Kroger is running strong with certainly more people inside than 10 that for sure aren’t practicing social distancing.

I realize that there are a large number of folks that have been laid off, but excepting office workers, I honestly don’t see how that’s impacted folks to stay home. I for sure DO NOT see folks staying at home...


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## nbp

Naturally it can never be everyone at home, I agree with you. But an awful lot is closed in this state. Aside from a grocery store, pharmacy or home repair store most all of the rest of them are closed. Bars are closed (in WI that’s a huge deal haha), restaurants are curbside pickup, salons, churches, theaters, etc. all closed. All the parks have closed any kind of structure where people could gather. There really aren’t any places left where a group could congregate. I guess that’s what I mean by everyone is at home. There’s nothing to do and no place to go once you leave home so most around here aren’t.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

nbp said:


> So genuine question, not being antagonistic. What is the game plan here? We’ve got everyone safe at home, “flattening the curve”... good... now what? Is the idea that no one goes anywhere or interacts with anyone until they can vaccinate the whole country? We could be 12-18 months from that. This current lifestyle with millions out of work and unable to come in contact with other humans isn’t sustainable for anywhere near that long. I read everyday the news reports and I can’t quite grasp the end game.



This is a serious situation and it's going to take time to recover from. Things are going to be forever different after we recover. The time it will take to recover is going to bankrupt some nations and make many desperate enough to hurt others to gain their resources. The people with needed skills are currently at risk and after this is over, there will be a shortage of those with skilled labor including doctors, farmers, tradesmen, etc.. Our country can't survive long term like this. This has already cancelled school and college classes. Tax day has been extended three months. That's the money our government needs to function. Elections are in November and they may be cancelled if this lasts that long. Iran is planning attacks on the U.S. and North Korea is launching missiles again. Our enemies want to take advantage of our time of weakness and I'm sure they are well aware that this would be the perfect time to strike with an e.m.p.. 

All that said, I think the short term plan is voluntary lockdown. Once people recover from the virus, they can go back to work. If this affects our economy and function of government too much, we may switch to alternating times of working then lockdown. What we also have to worry about is the possibility of the virus mutating and reinfecting people as a new strain like the flu. There is some evidence of this in China already. At this point, I'd plan for this like the zombie apocalypse. Assume everyone is infected and can kill you and that this is the new normal. Don't depend on anyone else for your survival. Start building up a stockpile of needed food, water, and supplies(Hopefully you've done this already. It's almost too late to start.) As people running essential infrastructure get sick, that infrastructure can easily fail. Don't depend on our just in time delivery system for getting food daily. Every trip to get supplies is a chance you and your family can get sick. It's possible that this could get bad enough to affect the reliability of our power grid, our water, gas, transportation of goods, phone and internet services, etc. I hope it doesn't. I hope it doesn't last past elections or martial law might end up being declared to keep the government functioning. Hopefully this doesn't happen.

I think it's too late to depend on a government plan for your survival. You need your own plan. Stock up on supplies. Live somewhere you can get water naturally or move there as soon as possible. Grow your own food and raise animals. Learn new skills. Everyone should know basic first aid and wilderness survival skills, how to farm and hunt, and some other useful trade to barter your skills with (don't rely on YouTube videos to learn these skills after the SHTF).


----------



## wacbzz

nbp said:


> Naturally it can never be everyone at home, I agree with you. But an awful lot is closed in this state. Aside from a grocery store, pharmacy or home repair store most all of the rest of them are closed. Bars are closed (in WI that’s a huge deal haha), restaurants are curbside pickup, salons, churches, theaters, etc. all closed. All the parks have closed any kind of structure where people could gather. There really aren’t any places left where a group could congregate. I guess that’s what I mean by everyone is at home. There’s nothing to do and no place to go once you leave home so most around here aren’t.



I forgot to add Cabela’s to that list of places that had a shload of people inside when I went there on Tuesday. Perhaps folks here in the good ole South just aren’t taking this as seriously. I now hate going to the grocery store not because they are out of items, but rather because there are so many people there. 

Imagine...the Kroger Social Club.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

We are 15 days into self-isolation and it is really upsetting me to witness my wife standing at the living room window gazing aimlessly into space with tears running down her cheeks. 
It breaks my heart to see her like this. I have thought very hard about how I could cheer her up. 


 I have even considered letting her into the house ..... but hey .... the rules are the rules. 

April fools!


----------



## trailhunter

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> We are 15 days into self-isolation and it is really upsetting me to witness my wife standing at the living room window gazing aimlessly into space with tears running down her cheeks.
> It breaks my heart to see her like this. I have thought very hard about how I could cheer her up.
> 
> 
> I have even considered letting her into the house ..... but hey .... the rules are the rules.
> 
> April fools!


You had me tearing up bro.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## bykfixer

End game? Valid question. 
Perhaps to some degree looking back at history can give some clues for economics and sociatal changes that occured after certain events like the Spanish flu, the Great Depression or WW2. As for me, I'll go back to doing what I did before. Heck in some ways I'm doing now. 

Since 911 I have led a more solitary lifestyle in general, largely avoiding big crowds, living as simple as practical with the notion that if they could do it in Jefferson's day we can too. I'll do better about watching expiration dates on non perishables and probably keep a months stock of toilet paper around. 

Some will pick up where they left off, some will make drastic changes. My two biggest fears are 1) that governments think now that they could control the masses with fear, they'll keep coming up with ways to repeat that. And 2) society that was already largely polarized and untrusting of each other will only deepen those unfortunate traits. 

Remember, the roaring 20's soon followed the Spanish flu.


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## Poppy

nbp said:


> I totally get the intention, for sure. It’s “easy” to catch up and flatten the curve when most people aren’t interacting with others. But this level of unemployment is unsustainable for any length of time. $1200 is a nice gesture, but we’re just getting into peak earning for seasonal work and lots of summertime businesses right now. I’ve had more than $1200 worth of work canceled just this week.



nbp, 
I hear you.

I too am an independent contractor and the last day I worked was 3/16/20. The business I work for closed and does not know, if and when it will re-open. It is very questionable whether I'll be hired back or not. This virus will be life changing.

As a small business owner, less than 50 employees, you might be able to get a loan (that you don't have to pay back) to pay your employees salaries, and your own! for 2 1/2 months.
OR if no employees, you may be eligible for unemployment insurance (previously not available to independent contractors) 

We are all in this together.
I have faith, that if things last too long, there will be mortgage, and tax payments forgiveness or deferments. As a country, we'll make it work. Part of the 2 trillion was to help the banks and mortgage companies, so they can pay interest on their bonds, because the Feds, know that a lot of people won't be able to make their mortgage payments. The banks, by Fed mandate can't foreclose, now. Again, I have faith that time frame will be extended.



> Very soon the effects of poverty, homelessless, loss of medical coverage will begin to affect a great many of the healthy people in the country, not just the old and sick. And with 50 million people over the age of 65 if even a fraction of them get it, you would have to spread it out over literally years to accommodate them all effectively in hospitals. I don’t know if just waiting it out is a feasible option... perhaps it will just kinda burn itself out like some of the previous coronaviruses have. That’s probably the best case scenario. We can hope!


Undoubtedly there is going to be a significant financial impact. Trump recognizes it and wanted to restart the economy Easter. 

Regarding spreading it out over years, that is not likely. We'll probably have a vaccine. AND a number of recovered, immune people before this is over. Also a percentage of our more frail population will have passed on. 


> I never get the flu, so I never get the flu shot. On the other hand, my customers don’t deny me access to their homes on the basis of whether or not I had a flu shot. Right now, older and at risk people are not letting any workers come to their homes. If a covid19 shot was the only way for them to let me come and do work for them, I suppose I would have to get it. Not much choice there, hey? If we knew that people once infected couldn’t be infected again (we don’t really know this) I almost would have rather just gotten it right away, self isolated the two weeks and beat it down so I could just go about life without so much concern.


Or you could have died.
This virus has killed young athletic, healthy people (Of course there is always the outlier.)
You might well be a survivor.

If you had kids at home, or a wife, grand-kids, senior parent, would you be so willing to bet on their resistance?

My large top loading washing machine bit the bullet a few days ago. I also have a smaller front loader. I decided to swap in the smaller unit rather than have a tech come in from outside and maybe bring corona into the house. Even if he is immune, he might still carry the virus in on his hands, tools, clothes. 

I had the MMR Polio, and tetanus vaccines but nothing else.
When they come out with one for this flu, I'll probably get it if I haven't already been infected.



> Yeah, it’s fun for a few days or a week or two. But I’m sorry - most can’t just not work for months and months. That’s what I mean; what’s the end game? Staying home indefinitely is not really much of a plan.
> 
> 
> Perhaps my question was really more rhetorical, after all. The fact is, you’re right, scout24. Trying to control this is pretty uncharted. There probably isn’t really any solid plan. As my friend says “we’re building this plane as we fly it”. In the past, a disease came through, killed who it killed, and people accepted it and went on with life. Today, people do not want to accept that there are problems that cannot be easily scienced or legislated away, and expect answers and solutions. Even when there really isn’t any good ones.


Although I am in favor of euthanasia (with certain caveats and protections); I am not ready to take the position of some... let it run its course, and let those who are going to die, die. I do understand their position. I am not there, yet. Maybe later, but not yet.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

trailhunter said:


> You had me tearing up bro.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


 
Sorry. Only wanted to make ya'll laugh.


----------



## StarHalo

nbp said:


> So genuine question, not being antagonistic. What is the game plan here? We’ve got everyone safe at home, “flattening the curve”... good... now what? Is the idea that no one goes anywhere or interacts with anyone until they can vaccinate the whole country? We could be 12-18 months from that. This current lifestyle with millions out of work and unable to come in contact with other humans isn’t sustainable for anywhere near that long. I read everyday the news reports and I can’t quite grasp the end game.



There's only modest odds of a federal government plan to oversee this time period, so without that there is no one game plan, each state is on their own and what happens will depend on where you live. 70-80% of the population will test positive over the year with at least one million requiring ICU stays, so the actual death rate will come down to how many more states will lock down - the 100,000-240,000 dead number assumes all states under lockdown conditions by the end of this week, which will not be the case, so that number may be conservative. If essentially everyone locks down, then the illness will be restricted to circulating amongst those working, so the infection rate will be slow and low over time, a flattened curve, which could allow some quarantined to dribble back into the workforce slowly, so it could come down to maintaining an infection-rate vs available-beds balance until the vaccine arrives. More reading.


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## bigburly912

So a man crashed a train 250 yards from the Mercy because he thought it was there for a government takeover or some other ulterior motive. Sad state of the world we are in. Look it up and read his comments if you get a chance, pretty wild stuff.


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## nbp

StarHalo said:


> There's only modest odds of a federal government plan to oversee this time period, so without that there is no one game plan, each state is on their own and what happens will depend on where you live. 70-80% of the population will test positive over the year with at least one million requiring ICU stays, so the actual death rate will come down to how many more states will lock down - the 100,000-240,000 dead number assumes all states under lockdown conditions by the end of this week, which will not be the case, so that number may be conservative. If essentially everyone locks down, then the illness will be restricted to circulating amongst those working, so the infection rate will be slow and low over time, a flattened curve, which could allow some quarantined to dribble back into the workforce slowly, so it could come down to maintaining an infection-rate vs available-beds balance until the vaccine arrives. More reading.



I was wondering what that link would be all about but I actually enjoyed the article. Particularly from The Endgame on. It laid out the couple of alternatives I could envision and how they could play out. Reasonably balanced and not entirely doom and gloom so that was nice.


----------



## RetroTechie

Hooked on Fenix said:


> At this point, I'd plan for this like the zombie apocalypse. Assume everyone is infected and can kill you and that this is the new normal. Don't depend on anyone else for your survival. Start building up a stockpile of needed food, water, and supplies(Hopefully you've done this already. It's almost too late to start.) As people running essential infrastructure get sick, that infrastructure can easily fail. Don't depend on our just in time delivery system for getting food daily. Every trip to get supplies is a chance you and your family can get sick. It's possible that this could get bad enough to affect the reliability of our power grid, our water, gas, transportation of goods, phone and internet services, etc. I hope it doesn't. I hope it doesn't last past elections or martial law might end up being declared to keep the government functioning. Hopefully this doesn't happen.
> 
> I think it's too late to depend on a government plan for your survival. You need your own plan. Stock up on supplies. Live somewhere you can get water naturally or move there as soon as possible. Grow your own food and raise animals. Learn new skills. Everyone should know basic first aid and wilderness survival skills, how to farm and hunt, and some other useful trade to barter your skills with (don't rely on YouTube videos to learn these skills after the SHTF).


For extended outages of power / water etc, or the food supply, a large enough fraction of the population would need to die that society as a whole falls apart. 'Sorry' to say @HoF, but this virus isn't lethal enough for that. :duh2: If we'd have daily group-hugs around the world so that everyone gets infected in short order, perhaps in the order of 1..2% of people _might_ end up dead due to lack of hospital care. The higher death rate seen in this context is the tip of the iceberg that is found in hospital beds. The underwater part of the iceberg is the many infections that already have been, but showing only mild or no symptoms & recovering on their own. Like the cases we're _not_ seeing in China's fudged numbers.

How can I say that with confidence? Simple: this virus _is_ very contagious, that has already been shown. So if it were both as contagious as it is, AND deadlier than it is, we'd be seeing millions dead by now & mass graves in China that are visible from space (or bodies littering the streets of cities around the world). Not seeing that... Best read I've found so far on this topic:

Coronavirus: The Hammer and the Dance

So: assume everyone is infected now, and 2% dies at once. That leaves 98% of people surviving. More than enough to keep crops growing, trucks rolling, utilities & supermarkets running. Yes that 2% would be a massive number of deaths, but remember that in the order of 1% of the world population dies every year from various causes. COVID-19 just pushes some groups over the edge earlier, and (right now) does that in a short time span. The "flattening of the curve" serves to a) keep that 1..2% number as low as possible by preventing health systems from being overwhelmed, and b) buy time to do research, improve treatment methods, build ventilators, develop a vaccine, etc. Every day counts & thus every infection _you_ prevent from occurring, helps.

Yes it's _possible_ the virus will mutate into a more deadly strain, and a 2nd wave wipes out 10% of the world population. Again: see time factor. One way or the other, final situation is so many people infected & immune to some degree (or vaccinated), that virus simply can't find hosts to hop between on its route to a person that is _not_ immune (or vaccinated) yet. At which point further spreading will cease or slow down greatly.

So we'll not shake this off any time soon. But unless you're in a high-risk group, it's not the virus you need to worry about. Empty store shelves are not your enemy. It's the panicking idiots that pick a fight over a roll of toilet paper. Politicians that take your rights away - and then want to keep it so after the fog has cleared. I'm fine with being stuck @ home for a while if it helps save many people's lives. I'm _not_ fine with such restrictions staying in place once their job is done.

That said: nothing wrong with increasing one's self-reliance. Especially for US citizens given the crazy political situation there. :shakehead Not to mention economic fall-out, or the psychological stress of having restrictions in place for months or more. I'm sure this year will be filled with unexpected side-effects... 

I tend to view this pandemic as a bullet that is grazing mankind. Serious s**t, absolutely. Could _easily_ have been much worse. But as things stand now: as long as we sit tight & *keep our heads calm*, mankind will come out just fine. As for yourself & loved ones? Watch your step...


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

The problem is that we don't have a 1 or 2 percent death rate. Total known cases are currently at 935,960. Total deaths are at 47,245. (Excluding China's real numbers that would add about 40,000 more dead.) That would make it a 5% death rate worldwide, conservatively. However, new cases lag behind deaths by about 2 weeks. It's more accurate to compare deaths to those that recovered. Total cases with an outcome 242,821 vs. 47,245 deaths puts us at a death rate of over 19% worldwide. Deaths in the U.S. have been doubling every 3 days and we had 1,049 people die in the last 24 hours. If this continues at this rate, we would have 1,074,176 dead in 30 days in the U.S.. If we had no new cases and everyone was locked down for a month starting today, assuming those that were infected either recovered or died within 15 days, we would still have 33,568 people die in the U.S. That would be without a single person getting infected from now on (absolute best case scenario). That's in addition to the 5,102 that had already died. Best case scenario is absolute lockdown where nobody else gets infected and 38,670 people total would have died in the U.S. in 15 days. To give you an idea of how fast doubling every three days is, it would be 1,024 times the original number after 30 days. If worldwide infection spreads at that speed, we're looking at close to 1 billion infected and over 48 million dead in 30 days.


----------



## turbodog

Hooked on Fenix said:


> The problem is that we don't have a 1 or 2 percent death rate. Total known cases are currently at 935,960. Total deaths are at 47,245. (Excluding China's real numbers that would add about 40,000 more dead.) That would make it a 5% death rate worldwide, conservatively. However, new cases lag behind deaths by about 2 weeks. It's more accurate to compare deaths to those that recovered. Total cases with an outcome 242,821 vs. 47,245 deaths puts us at a death rate of over 19% worldwide. Deaths in the U.S. have been doubling every 3 days and we had 1,049 people die in the last 24 hours. If this continues at this rate, we would have 1,074,176 dead in 30 days in the U.S.. If we had no new cases and everyone was locked down for a month starting today, assuming those that were infected either recovered or died within 15 days, we would still have 33,568 people die in the U.S. That would be without a single person getting infected from now on (absolute best case scenario). That's in addition to the 5,102 that had already died. Best case scenario is absolute lockdown where nobody else gets infected and 38,670 people total would have died in the U.S. in 15 days. To give you an idea of how fast doubling every three days is, it would be 1,024 times the original number after 30 days. If worldwide infection spreads at that speed, we're looking at close to 1 billion infected and over 48 million dead in 30 days.



Don't confuse mortality rate with CASE mortality. Can't extrapolate between them.


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## bykfixer

48 million in 30 days? I'll be stepping over dead people while shopping at Food Lion. Pushing my cart along in the cat food row when the lady behind me "splatt" dead. Can't check out aisle 4 'cause the cashier just keeled over and died. A fire truck crashes through an intersection because the driver just died. "This just in Ken 44 dead at the same time in an Alberqurque Wal Mart, pictures at 11". 

Luckily for a lot of folks who do succumb to Covid-19 they go fast. No suffering for extended periods. But in the end it will likely be somewhere between 1.2 to 1.4% of people did not survive the virus infection.

Humans are pretty stupid, but we are kinda tough too.


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## Modernflame

I miss my family. I like my co-workers. But I love social distancing. Does that make me a bad person? I've never had such a perfectly crafted excuse not to visit the in laws. 

I'm blessed to have the opportunity to work from home, at least for the moment. A paycheck is always a blessing, but it means quite a bit more right now.


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## ven

The WHO are re-looking into masks CG
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52126735


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## markr6

Modernflame said:


> I miss my family. I like my co-workers. But I love social distancing. Does that make me a bad person? I've never had such a perfectly crafted excuse not to visit the in laws.



LOL actually, I don't really care about it so far. I must be a bad person! In fact, I wish I could travel so I can further isolate on a backpacking trip.

Cabin fever, what? There's so much to do inside. And outside. I almost have this anxiety trying to decide which thing to do...to pack in as much stuff as possible every day after work especially since the weather is getting nicer.


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## RetroTechie

Hooked on Fenix said:


> The problem is that we don't have a 1 or 2 percent death rate.


You're right... it's probably LOWER.

You're referring to case fatality rate. Which is deaths per *known* cases. Known cases = people who have gotten sick, have been tested, and found positive (infected).
What I'm referring to is infection fatality rate. Which is deaths per everyone infected. That is: people who have gotten sick *+* people who did not notice anything. People who went to hospital *+* people who didn't. People who were tested *+* people that were not. That # of people is _much much_ higher than cases tested positive. Many experts estimate that perhaps 10..20x higher than # of people that actually _tested_ positive. Why? Simple: we KNOW the virus is out there in the wild (people are picking it up from 'random' others). We KNOW it's much higher number than what's tested. Because we're 'not' testing. At least not large cross sections of the population. And enough time has passed for many people to have been infected (and possibly become ill or even die). Note that several countries (like China or Italy) are much further along the curve. These have had enough time for the masses of dead to show up if that were happening.

So again: IF infection fatality rate were 5% or even higher, we'd be seeing mass graves all over the world by now. We are not. THUS it follows that fatality per infected person is pretty low. It wouldn't surprise me if all is said & done, and a large cross section of the population is tested (_random_ members of the population, that is), we find a fatality rate around 0.5...1%. In the order of # of people that die each year anyway. COVID-19 is just doing it quicker for some groups now, that is all.

So yes, it IS a serious problem. Yes many more deaths will follow. And it's important to slow down the spread to prevent hospitals from being overwhelmed. But NO entire swats of the population are not going to die, and society will not descend into anarchy. Well if the masses don't panic, that is. :devil: Political or socio-economic fallout otoh - your guess is as good as mine...


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## knucklegary

Great time to be a loner.. long as you're far away from big cities and the burbs 

Last couple days.. i keep hearing, in my head, Willie singing.. On the Road Again


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## bykfixer

My coworker said this morning that his brother is not the touchy/feelie type and last night his granddaughter said "gandpa been practicing social distancing my whole life".


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## bigburly912

I’m still working every day but there’s this guy named Tom over the hill that’s bullying a couple of guys named jake every time they talk to a lady he thinks he owns. I need to change that. They aren’t practicing social distancing at all. At least tom, 10 guys named jake and about 40 women running around.


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## knucklegary

Man o man thats alot of grass cutting BB! 

Could be that guy who derailed train into USS Mercy was smoking some of the cuttings?


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## scout24

Tom, jake, and the gals have been quite a presence in the mornings for my dog walks. It's nice to hear them after the long winter. I should start seeing groups of them wandering through our yard during the day here sometime soon. Good pic, BigBurly!


----------



## knucklegary

We rarely see more than families of 8, coastal deer


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

turbodog said:


> Don't confuse mortality rate with CASE mortality. Can't extrapolate between them.



Okay, granted they are currently saying the real number of cases is 11 times higher and nobody really knows the real number. We know China's numbers are b.s.. Some say over 40,000 died, some say around 1 million. However, the numbers I extrapolated for the future known cases and deaths weren't based on an unknown percentage. I used total known cases and total known deaths in U.S. and worldwide and extrapolated based on the current death rate in America (doubling of deaths every three days). That's 32 times higher than the original number for 15 days and 1024 for 30 days. Spread of this virus is logarithmic. The numbers also only went out 15 and 30 days. Unfortunately, once you hit the peak on a bell curve, it's usually the same on the other side going down. In other words, you could have a matching number of deaths after the peak as before it. That 48 million dead number could end up as 96 million. However, if the death rate is indeed, only around 1 percent, deaths globally would be capped at 78 million if everyone got infected (1% of 7.8 billion). I sincerely hope it doesn't get nearly that bad and that current measures to stop it work quickly. Things to keep in mind: Nobody has immunity to this virus. It spreads much faster than the flu. They think it has a death rate 10 times higher than the flu. Nobody really knows where in China it came from (some think a Wuhan market, some think a nearby lab that studies corona viruses and Ebola). It has an incubation period of around 2 weeks so you can be assymptomatic long before you know you're sick. It has already tanked economies worldwide, affected the ways government can operate, weakened our military, and lowered our number of essential workers (doctors, politicians, grocery workers, military, etc.). It can mutate quickly (We might have another round or several rounds with this virus.) Knowing all this, it's better to be prepared for the worst case situation than to wish you were when it's too late.


----------



## markr6

Finally, people are starting to be sent to work from home next week. 50% is the goal. I offered to stay here...and they took me up on it. Dammit! No I'm kidding. I know for a fact, me "working from home" would involve drinking coffee, messing around on the computer, eating pizza and watching Prime for 5 hours straight, then maybe tinkering outside and in the garage. Then when I go hiking or kayaking, I'd get a call...busted!


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Total known corona virus cases just passed 1 million people.


----------



## bigburly912

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Total known corona virus cases just passed 1 million people.



50000 deaths.


----------



## bykfixer

In my area folks who were forced out of a job are taking pictures of people on construction sites not 6 feet apart and reporting it to the government. 

We inspectors have been advised to ensure they are following the policy so that there is no ammo that may get our projects shut down by the police.


----------



## idleprocess

markr6 said:


> Finally, people are starting to be sent to work from home next week. 50% is the goal. I offered to stay here...and they took me up on it. Dammit! No I'm kidding. I know for a fact, me "working from home" would involve drinking coffee, messing around on the computer, eating pizza and watching Prime for 5 hours straight, then maybe tinkering outside and in the garage. Then when I go hiking or kayaking, I'd get a call...busted!



It takes some self-discipline to work from home, as well as management that knows how to manage by means other than _walking around_ and doesn't compensate for the lack of in-person availability with control freakery. I certainly struggled with it at first, getting a lot of laundry and dishes done and _*maybe*_ missing a phone call, IM, email or two before I got the hang of it.


----------



## bykfixer

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Total known corona virus cases just passed 1 million people.



Only 699 million to go before it catches up the that swine thing. And only 100k deaths, but we're trying real hard. 

(Those are the low estimates btw, high numbers were 1.4 billion with 575 thousand dead). (source: wiki)


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Swine flu was no laughing matter either. The 104 degree body temperature and the alternating chills and burning up made that probably the worst virus I ever had. Plus it killed the pastor of my church. It is too early to say how bad this virus will get, but too many people have been underestimating how infectious and deadly it is, making things worse. In just over two months, from February 1 until April 2, we went from 304 deaths and 14,553 confirmed cases to 52,855 dead and 1,009,727 confirmed cases at this moment. That means deaths have gone up about 173.865 times and total known cases have gone up 69.38 times the number just over 60 days ago. Notice that during that time, the ratio of deaths to total cases has gone up from 1 death:47.87 total cases to 1 death:19.1 total cases. Maybe February 1 was too early to come to this conclusion and maybe China's numbers screwed up the math, but based on those numbers alone, it looks like the virus got over 2.5 times more lethal in two months. Who knows, we may have ten times as many who are positive and not reported and all the deaths reported which could throw off the math, but that may have been the case in February 1 as well which would even things out a bit. Swine flu had an incubation period of 1-4 days and as long as 7. Symptoms come on fairly quickly so you don't get too far before you realize you're sick and self-isolate (which nobody bothered to do back then). Corona virus has an incubation period of 2-14 days and as high as 24 days plus it stays on surfaces and in the air longer. It will take that much longer to find out how many casualties there are because this virus spreads easier and doesn't burn out as quickly as swine flu.


----------



## bigburly912

H1N1 almost took me out. 2 weeks of work missed. 1 whole week of lying on the floor sweating through my clothes. Awful


----------



## bykfixer

The sickest I ever was in my adult life was around 1995. Good gosh, that one had folks sick that I worked with who said they hadn't been sick in 30+ years. I was out for 3 weeks and it was months before I felt good again. Thing is on that one was neither of my kids or (at that time) wife got it. 
So I did some research and it seems between 95 and 97 there were 3 flu bugs. In 95 it was an influenza A(H1N1) and A(H3N2) and an influenza B. It seems for 5 straight weeks Americans died at a 7.6% death rate. Now I surmize that I might have had that H1N1 because in 2009/10 I never even got the sniffles. And the swine flu was wiping people out for over a year. Hell, it still did all the way to 2015 when they stopped counting. 

In 2003 we all had what we called "the south hill 101.2 flu" because in a town of 45,000 nearly everybody had it. That one wiped out children and largely left older folks alone. The fellow who gave it to those around me was out of work the next day and did not return until after all of us were sick then recovered. Was that one SARS? Probably not but we will never know unless ever checked for the antibodies. 

Now in 2008 a head cold nearly wiped me out. I had a sneeze fit one Friday and stayed in bed all weekend. I missed a day of work since my fever had not broken. A week later I was ill again and spent the weekend under the covers with another fever. That repeated 3 more weeks so I finally went to my doctor. He did the routine and says "you need to take at least two weeks off to heal". I replied "can't doc, got too much to do". He replied "I'll have them put that on your tombstone" 
Nuff said. That was about two weeks before thanksgiving when my project shut down for the winter. I staggered to work until then because I was the only guy left on the project. At thanksgiving I left the project and it was January before I returned. And then I did an inhaler until that fall. A freaking head cold. 

Stress played a role in those cases. Right now many are on pins and needles about the rent, the boredom, the constant barage of more bad news. And I will say from experience that some who get this new virus may have stress induced immune deficiecies that if it doesn't take em to the big pond in the sky, they may be permanently injured by it. So please try to relax at this time. Spray lavender on your pillow at night. Work out with ordinary household items like chairs, gallon jugs, etc. Meditate, swing on a porch swing or something. Just please relax. We will get through this. Each day ends at midnight. Each sunrise is a brand new day. And despite all the doom and gloom the world has seen some pretty rough times, heck even in my 50 some years here. 

Fear can't stop death. Fear can stop life


----------



## StarHalo

74% of those hospitalized for Coronavirus have other medical complications - *you prepare for this event by being healthy*.


----------



## RedLED

Star,

Do you work at the Amazon facility in San Bernardino? They had a confirmed case there today.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Star,
> 
> Do you work at the Amazon facility in San Bernardino? They had a confirmed case there today.



I'm in Eastvale, we've had two test positive. Today was the first day they did temperature checks at the door, if you're over 99.4 then you're out for 72 hours: no healthy = no worky. Everything in the warehouse where people might gather has been rearranged, all the time clocks are spaced way apart, there's ropes in front of all the various assistance desks so you can't stand too close to the workers, we no longer do group meetings, etc. 

Should also mention, if anyone here is worried about income and could give working in a warehouse a try, our starting rate is now $17/hr nationally; it's assumed you're not going to stay long, so if don't do well in your role or just aren't into it, you can essentially bail at any time. Don't care about education or past experience, most everyone who shows up gets in. [And if a mod interprets this as a shill, please just delete this paragraph..]


----------



## nbp

I was talking with a friend; shes a nurse in the ER at a local hospital. I was curious on her take from her experiences and what the doctors in her ER are saying. Something she said, I found interesting. She said that right at first they were trying to test everyone with symptoms but very quickly started running out of supplies for it (a familiar refrain across the nation). For the past two weeks or so they have basically only been testing the very sickest individuals, the ones hospitalized. Those with milder symptoms are simply sent home and told to quarantine while they recover. She says this current testing attack significantly skews the data, making it look like a much higher percentage of positive cases are requiring hospitalization or leading to death than is accurate, since loads of people are likely positive but never tested. Once fast and accurate tests are widely available in quantity the models have a chance at being accurate. This isn’t what is reported though because it is advantageous to the healthcare system for people to believe the worst as it keeps them home and not interacting with others, which eases the burden on healthcare resources. So her take is: Yes, it is serious and it is good to stay home and stay healthy, but this thing is definitely not as brutal as the current models would portray.


----------



## RedLED

StarHalo, please stay safe at work.


----------



## turbodog

nbp said:


> I was talking with a friend; shes a nurse in the ER at a local hospital. I was curious on her take from her experiences and what the doctors in her ER are saying. Something she said, I found interesting. She said that right at first they were trying to test everyone with symptoms but very quickly started running out of supplies for it (a familiar refrain across the nation). For the past two weeks or so they have basically only been testing the very sickest individuals, the ones hospitalized. Those with milder symptoms are simply sent home and told to quarantine while they recover. She says this current testing attack significantly skews the data, making it look like a much higher percentage of positive cases are requiring hospitalization or leading to death than is accurate, since loads of people are likely positive but never tested. Once fast and accurate tests are widely available in quantity the models have a chance at being accurate. This isn’t what is reported though because it is advantageous to the healthcare system for people to believe the worst as it keeps them home and not interacting with others, which eases the burden on healthcare resources. So her take is: Yes, it is serious and it is good to stay home and stay healthy, but this thing is definitely not as brutal as the current models would portray.



Maybe, maybe not. But it continues to grow in the USA. Most every state will run out of hospital beds... everyone forgets that is THE problem we are dealing with, not really the stuff right now.

And at some time, likely soon, new cases will overwhelm the testing system... we won't know WHO has WHAT.


----------



## bigburly912

bykfixer said:


> In 2003 we all had what we called "the south hill 101.2 flu"



South hill makes me happy. I need a Buggs Island trip this year.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

> .Travel data of passengers arriving in the United States from China during the critical period in December, January and February, when the disease took hold in that country, shows a stunning 759,493 people entered the U.S.
> "This is an astonishing number in a short period of time, illustrating how globalized our world has become. Just as people can hop continents with amazing ease, the infections they carry can too," said Dr. Vinayak Kumar, an internal medicine resident at the Mayo Clinic and a contributor to the ABC News Medical Unit.
> 
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/dis...elers-poured-us-coronavirus/story?id=69933625



China's officials lied. People traveled. People died. 

Imagine the uproar if we had know earlier and had tried to close our borders to people traveling from China.


----------



## StarHalo

Brownish-orange is US:


----------



## bykfixer

bigburly912 said:


> South hill makes me happy. I need a Buggs Island trip this year.



In lived in a converted 2 car garage at a spot called owl cove in Buffalo Junction. When I wasn't sleeping I spent my sick time those two days I was out with the 101.2 flu looking out my kitchen door at the point where the Dan, the Roanoke rivers and Buffalo creek merged. The brightest sky at night I've ever seen. I mean genuine darkness on a moonless night with more stars showing in the sky than you could ever count. 

I found a dinosaur by the lake shore one weekend but nobody believed me so I grabbed a few back bone segments and took some photos. As you may know bb, the lake level rises and falls often on Buggs so that Gaston levels can remain relatively the same. One Saturday the skeletal remains of a gigantic reptile was exposed on the edge of the shore when they lowered the lake. My son and I saw what looked like an oval shaped rock cut into 1000 slices in nearly uniform segments. I say a thousand but it may have been 200. So we marveled at how nature had deposited that rock structure and set about skipping stones on the lake. Well from a few hundred feet away we looked back and noticed what looked like the shape of Godzilla along the edge of the shore. Well portions of Godzilla. It was as if Godzilla had died and fell over on the edge of the shore line with his back facing the shore. Time had seemingly washed many bones into the stream. 

My son and I told everybody who we saw there for the next week about it. Everybody said "it's just rocks". In a couple of weeks the bones were all in Buffalo creek as the lake levels raised and lowered nearly everyday. I ran across a Jamestown archeologist one day later who said "those people in places like that don't want to be disturbed by us hippies with our seives and paint brushes". Made sense to me after that. 

So back to covid-19. I told Mrs Fixer during the daily press conference today "I like Mike Pence, he makes me sleepy when he speaks about the corona virus". It's not an orange man saying "this is the biggest, most beautiful stimulous package you ever saw. Tremendous. Yuge" followed by a chorus of Mr President Mr President why are you allowing millions to die" cackle from the press corp bombarding the man with gotcha questions. 
It's just a mild mannered gentleman speaking in plain words explaining what the government of America is doing right now to help the states hardest hit. I get a sense of optimism from Mike Pence as he ducks in and out between those two doctors who also speak in plain words explaining their latest models and methods. It's one of the reasons Bill Clinton was so popular with Americans. When he said "my fellow Americans" his tone and demeaner was soothing. Even his arch rival Newt Gingrich said "you hate the man until you meet him, and you still hate him after that yet you end up liking the guy even though your gut says to hate him". Clinton was prossibly the best politician to ever live in the white house. But right now I'm glad that Mike Pence character talks to me every afternoon after a day of more rules and regulations to follow at work as my company tries to legislate its way out of this crisis. 

The company I work for is an "inclusive" group of engineers and goody two shoes. They have tens of thousands of mindless robots with 2 year degrees entering data all day for crappy wages. Back in 2009 the CEO decided he wanted to buy up engineering firms while they were cheap during that recession. He had the goal of making the company top ten in the world. They were #12 at that time. So he set about buying up failing engineering firms and the outfit I worked for was one of them. My company at the time was profitable but the founders grand kids wanted out so they sold us to the mega firm for ten cents on the dollar. 

Time has shown why many of the firms bought by that CEO were failing. Lazy, spoiled and just plain dumb people have caused the mega firm with very relaxed policies to suddenly realize there is a whole bunch of free loaders working there. It's the story of the cricket and the ant. I work for the ant in this case. Now with this covid thing the crickets are all working from their sofa so us ants have to fill out all this paperwork every day to prove we set at our desk with company approved posture, 3 page form there. That we took our temperature at 8am, noon and 5pm and write down what it was. 7 page form there. And all kinds of crap like that. This week they laid of nearly every cricket. Entire divisions, gone. Top to bottom, they purged the roster of thousands. Never let a good crisis go to waste, right?


----------



## StarHalo

Getting into specifics of symptoms now that more data is in:


----------



## bykfixer

I must have covid. I've been mentally drained and had a headache ever since the gubment hit the economic off switch. 
Covid syndrome that is……not covid virus. My coworkers all say they feel bewildered as well. What rule did I not follow today? What new policy will they force on us tomorrow? And the gubment just said "comply or die"....


----------



## RedLED

My God fixer, is that what the real Corporate life is really like? It is hard to imagine, for me, as I have in all the years I have worked to never have had to answer to anyone. That sounds like a nightmare on a daily basis.

RL


----------



## bykfixer

Red, I work for a pyramid scheme where the base area has been crumbling for some time. So they have chosen the crisis to make a bunch of changes. Myself and those around me are safe but we just have to hang on during the shake up. Mid level managers are making up rules trying to save their jobs.


----------



## RedLED

That is awful, Fixer.


----------



## tech25

nbp said:


> I was talking with a friend; shes a nurse in the ER at a local hospital. I was curious on her take from her experiences and what the doctors in her ER are saying. Something she said, I found interesting. She said that right at first they were trying to test everyone with symptoms but very quickly started running out of supplies for it (a familiar refrain across the nation). For the past two weeks or so they have basically only been testing the very sickest individuals, the ones hospitalized. Those with milder symptoms are simply sent home and told to quarantine while they recover. She says this current testing attack significantly skews the data, making it look like a much higher percentage of positive cases are requiring hospitalization or leading to death than is accurate, since loads of people are likely positive but never tested. Once fast and accurate tests are widely available in quantity the models have a chance at being accurate. This isn’t what is reported though because it is advantageous to the healthcare system for people to believe the worst as it keeps them home and not interacting with others, which eases the burden on healthcare resources. So her take is: Yes, it is serious and it is good to stay home and stay healthy, but this thing is definitely not as brutal as the current models would portray.



Same here as far as data goes, lately my hospital has been only testing admissions, others only test ICU admissions. Another thing that can skew the data, my hospital is more centrally located and we tend to have more patients from surrounding areas (bypassing a couple of smaller hospitals) so positive results will be higher in the hospitals zip code vs. one to two zip codes away.

As far a how bad this is, I can’t talk for statistics but in hospital we see the worst cases come in. We are seeing all ages some with comorbidities, some without. The progression can be really fast from talking to being intubated and placed on a vent in minutes. 
Census might be down a bit but the patients admitted tend to require critical care and airway equipment. So many pts on ventilators mean that we are running low on vents, ancillary supplies and meds as well (monitors, high flow oxygen and meds to keep pts asleep)


----------



## markr6

bykfixer said:


> Clinton was prossibly the best politician to ever live in the white house.



I miss slick willie! Anyone who can seriously ask "that depends on what the meaning of the word is, is" instantly wins.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Got a text yesterday that they are closing NCHS (North County Healthcare Services) clinics in my area due to corona virus. I would think they would count as an essential service, but I guess they're afraid patients are going to show up and get the doctors and people in the lobby sick. I'll have to go to the hospital or ride this out and wait for things to get back to normal in order to see a doctor. Other than going to the emergency room or seeing one of my specialists, I don't see how I can even contact my primary care physician if the place they work is closed down. Telemed won't even work in this case. I wonder if they're recalling those doctors and nurses to work with corona virus patients at the hospitals?


----------



## Devildude

bykfixer said:


> Red, I work for a pyramid scheme where the base area has been crumbling for some time. So they have chosen the crisis to make a bunch of changes. Myself and those around me are safe but we just have to hang on during the shake up. Mid level managers are making up rules trying to save their jobs.



That sounds so familiar. Over the years at my current job I have seen a great many talented people quit or get forced out as middle management makes up new rules to make themselves look better. It can get disheartening at times to see the slow steady decline of a once proud company, with the hope that they pull up before it hits the ground.


----------



## bigburly912

First confirmed case in my little area.


----------



## RedLED

Devildude said:


> That sounds so familiar. Over the years at my current job I have seen a great many talented people quit or get forced out as middle management makes up new rules to make themselves look better. It can get disheartening at times to see the slow steady decline of a once proud company, with the hope that they pull up before it hits the ground.


What about senior management?


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

It's Friday, but Sunday's coming!


----------



## bigburly912

Good thing about sitting outside at work........


----------



## RBR

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> It's Friday, but Sunday's coming!



No problem, on 100% short hours now...:duh2:


----------



## RedLED

One of our outdoor cats passed away this morning. I could tell he was not well yesterday, and worse today. I took him to the Vet., however, he was too far gone to save.


----------



## bigburly912

Hate to hear that red. I lost my little buddy a couple weeks ago. He was affectionately known as boycat. He was a rabbit slayer but he loved dogs and hated other cats. He would follow my daughters all over the yard and holler for us when we came home. Never had a cat like him and I’m not really a cat person. He was literally more like a buddy. I feel for ya brother.


----------



## BVH

Sorry for your loss RedLED. We've lost three in the last 2 plus years and I still miss them all terribly.


----------



## RedLED

Thanks, Guy's. He was a real nice cat.


----------



## bykfixer

Latest compliance requirements in road construction during the pandemic: 
Ensure that everybody on the project complies with A) coughs into elbow B) stays minimum 6 feet apart C) disinfected all surfaces before touching D) does not touch face E) is not running fever F) ensure covid-19 prevention meeting occurs three times per day while maintaining social distance techniques. If more than ten people must hold separate meeting(s) as necessary G) provide daily documentation with photographs of A-F policies adhered to. I am not kidding. 

The oversight authority requires they provide X numbers of tests by their personnel of materials and procedures. Read "by their personnel".… The newest policy by our governor means they cannot provide their personnel for fear of violating policy. Here's the best part. We are still required to provide documentation of the tests performed. That means we are supposed to document testing that did not actually occur. 

When my boss eluded to us being required to wear N95 masks I responded "shoot me, send me home or fire me 'cause I aint going to wear a mask that medical personnel should have while walking around outdoors 10' away from everybody". I used to be an inspector. Now I am a covid-19 policy compliance monitor. Yet all my reports are still due. All my inspections are required and all my regular documentation are still required. And because of budget cuts, no overtime even though the contractor works 60 hours a week. Years ago I used to smoke dope and drink whiskey for no reason. Here lately it seems like I may have good reason to resume. 

I don't mean to moan and groan here as much as I just wanted to jot down what people still working in designated essential jobs are having to deal with. I cannot imagine the cya documentation doctors, nurses, police and ems are having to deal with right now. It's like you are behind enemy lines surround by enemy artillary while hunkered down in snow without a winter coat when you notice in the distance smoke signals by some officer scolding you because the daily form 5439/J has not been turned in yet. And it's only 9am.


----------



## richbuff

"How is everyone holding up?"

Physically, emotionally and mentally as good as can be expected in my mortal body made of ashes and dust, on the hostile surface of this planet, considering how evil the average person is, and with half the people eviler than that. 

Business-wise: I am still operating my church property spiritual meeting hall building.

Allowed activities in Arizona:

Constitutionally protected activities, such as speech and religion.
Essential activity: such as religion.
Essential business: Human service operation: Behavioral health > Substance disorder > Recovery.
Essential service: Substance disorder > Recovery.

Thank God I am not in some other service activity, such as clothing sales, furniture, sporting goods, jewelry, bowling alley, gym/fitness, sports, gambling, books and/or music, theater, concert or sports venue.

Steppenwolf: "So let's just hope there is a promised land and hang on 'till then as best we can"


----------



## RedLED

All of my corporate projects are cancelled for this year, however, I do have many long time clients /companies that give me dates years out.


----------



## knucklegary

bigburly912 said:


> Good thing about sitting outside at work........
> View attachment 12110



Burly, what crops are you growing?


----------



## bykfixer

Rich, our community is holding up well in this time of crisis. Folks seem to be relaxing some versus two weeks ago. I think spring temps has a lot to do with the mental wellness aspect. I see lots and lots of cars around where two weeks ago the streets were empty. Yet folks are more relaxed at intersections and places where a month ago it was like scenes out of Mad Max.

I suppose the vast population has a lot more time to get from point A to B now since there's nothing pressing. And stores having toilet paper now seems to put folks at ease. In a Wal Mart this afternoon there was a half truck load of toilet paper setting on shelves and hardly anybody was buying it. We bought some to leave on porches of some shut in elderly neighbors though. The panic buy today was DVD players. Mine gave out so we went to buy a replacement. The brand names were all gone. There was a vast space for a no name machine and there were 6 left, now 5. 

Folks in the Wal Mart were all in good spirits and lots of "hello", "thank you" and the like were exchanged by perfect strangers. No carts full of food and shelves were well stocked. 

One thing I miss at this time is church bells. But sooooooo many communities no longer ring them because of noise ordinance laws. My church dared to ring a digital one a couple years back and were forced to stop. That was sad. They even had to turn off our local version of Big Ben a few years back. Sad, sad, sad.

When I aint at work I'm golden. But work as I said above is annoying as heck but we're all getting used to that. Heck I'm even thinking of wearing my US flag bandana just for the heck of it. Why not, right? I bought it from a street corner peddler on 9/12 so it is kinda fitting right now.


----------



## bigburly912

knucklegary said:


> Burly, what crops are you growing?



This is at my workplace. No crops growing here. Just national forest and a little valley between two mountains in Scott County Virginia. Very quiet little town.


----------



## Poppy

richbuff said:


> "How is everyone holding up?"
> 
> Physically, emotionally and mentally as good as can be expected in my mortal body made of ashes and dust, on the hostile surface of this planet, considering how evil the average person is, and with half the people eviler than that.
> 
> Business-wise: I am still operating my church property spiritual meeting hall building.
> 
> Allowed activities in Arizona:
> 
> Constitutionally protected activities, such as speech and religion.
> Essential activity: such as religion.
> Essential business: Human service operation: Behavioral health > Substance disorder > Recovery.
> Essential service: Substance disorder > Recovery.
> 
> Thank God I am not in some other service activity, such as clothing sales, furniture, sporting goods, jewelry, bowling alley, gym/fitness, sports, gambling, books and/or music, theater, concert or sports venue.
> 
> Steppenwolf: "So let's just hope there is a promised land and hang on 'till then as best we can"



Whatever you are doing, I hope that you are keeping your parishioners such that they are maintaining social distancing.

Religion can be done with a megaphone and an open field, or online. Please no group hugs, or hand holding, or hand shaking during service.


----------



## jabe1

Most of the churches around here are doing some form of online service. The church my parents attend is doing daily mass on their own new YouTube channel.
since all meetings have been shut down, many recovery 12 step groups are now streaming. You. An attend an AA meeting from almost anywhere, at any time. Some members around here though decided to meet in one of the local park pavilions, apparently they had as many as 60 people there. The local authorities shut it down, but only after it became known that someone who was attending tested positive. Idiotic.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I went to the post office for my mom today. Six people standing in line, each one standing on the heels of the person in front of them.  This is in the county with the third largest number of COVID-19 cases in Washington State. :sigh: 

Yes, I was wearing an N95 mask.


----------



## RedLED

Are the Flashaholics attending on line? At F.A.?


Sorry, I could not resist, and this was a bad day for us here.


----------



## knucklegary

bigburly912 said:


> This is at my workplace. No crops growing here. Just national forest and a little valley between two mountains in Scott County Virginia. Very quiet little town.



Burly,

The pipe stacked in foreground through me.. 
Calif central valley AGRI is full of same type irrigation pipe.. 

Or, my phone app photos are tiny, are those lamp poles?

Either way, I now can make out the deer running across field.. it's time for some stronger glasses:green:


----------



## RedLED

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I went to the post office for my mom today. Six people standing in line, each one standing on the heels of the person in front of them.  This is in the county with the third largest number of COVID-19 cases in Washington State. :sigh:
> 
> Yes, I was wearing an N95 mask.


You know, I see the casual attitude of people, and I'm afraid that it could lead to stiff, heavy handed enforcement. What they are asking, and they are asking is so easy to follow I simply Don't understand it.


----------



## bykfixer

Where my wife works they placed heart shaped appliques on the floor 6 feet apart at the checkout counter and have a monitor ensuring folks who don't voluntarily separate know to stand on the heart. You know, the type who approaches check out on their phone or checking an insta-post site and has no clue of the world outside the center of the universe, them.…… they sell pet supplies.


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I went to the post office for my mom today. Six people standing in line, each one standing on the heels of the person in front of them.  This is in the county with the third largest number of COVID-19 cases in Washington State. :sigh:
> 
> Yes, I was wearing an N95 mask.



Sorry to hear that. Definitely not happening in my area, everyone is maintaining at least a 6 foot separation. Inside and outside.


----------



## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> Years ago I used to smoke dope and drink whiskey for no reason. Here lately it seems like I may have good reason to resume.



8.2% ABV as I'm typing, and 15mg THC this weekend; you want to know why I'm fine with how this thread is progressing? Hold my beer..



bykfixer said:


> Heck I'm even thinking of wearing my US flag bandana just for the heck of it. Why not, right?



I wore my AOC shirt today, you should absolutely celebrate your country.

Edit: And there was an earthquake immediately after I posted this; if the van's a-rockin'..


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

It was a 4.6 magnitude near Anza, CA. I felt it too. You know what makes a now mandatory stay at home order worse? The feeling that if you stay in your home, the house will collapse. While the quake wasn't that bad, it's going to make more people into nervous wrecks.


----------



## Devildude

RedLED said:


> What about senior management?



Senior management all retired. I think most of them were middle managers when my father worked there and he passed away 35 years ago. I wound up following his foot steps after the great recession killed the career I had doing automation in the plastic industry for 12 years. Most of that was self taught. My current job is not as mentally challenging just physically demanding. For 3 years I had a highly skilled position within the company but lost that one to needing to be on third shift for personal reasons.


----------



## bykfixer

StarHalo said:


> 8.2% ABV as I'm typing, and 15mg THC this weekend; you want to know why I'm fine with how this thread is progressing? Hold my beer..
> 
> 
> 
> I wore my AOC shirt today, you should absolutely celebrate your country.
> 
> Edit: And there was an earthquake immediately after I posted this; if the van's a-rockin'..



As tempting as this is……I aint touching it with a ten foot pole. Wow. 

Must………resist………must………resist.


----------



## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> As tempting as this is……I aint touching it with a ten foot pole. Wow.
> 
> Must………resist………must………resist.



Already wore the Greta Thunberg shirt last week. So are you an IPA or pilsner man?


----------



## RedLED

StarHalo,

Where is Eastvale?


----------



## knucklegary

I can't speak for Byk, but please do share the AOC T-shirt?


----------



## RedLED

Hooked on Fenix said:


> It was a 4.6 magnitude near Anza, CA. I felt it too. You know what makes a now mandatory stay at home order worse? The feeling that if you stay in your home, the house will collapse. While the quake wasn't that bad, it's going to make more people into nervous wrecks.


That was a nice little shaker!


----------



## knucklegary

Red, Do you know where Chino is located?


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Earthquake near Anza, CA was upgraded to a 4.9.


----------



## knucklegary

I lived through CA, Loma Prieta quake. Magnitude was around 7.0 Damage around my area was catastrophic. A friend was near completion building his new home, just waiting on final inspection. The house ripped right off the foundation bolts. Talk about rock 'n roll, that was a scary day!


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Where is Eastvale?



North of OC, South of IE. 



knucklegary said:


> I can't speak for Byk, but please do share the AOC T-shirt?



And I'll throw in Greta for free; don't forget to ask to see Byk's do rag..


----------



## RedLED

knucklegary said:


> Red, Do you know where Chino is located?


Why sure. In the early 1980's, I was an ECCO, FAE, Fire Dispatcher with the California Department of Forestry in Perris, CA. Of course, now they call it that dreaded name: CalFire...

What a great experience it was.


ECCO: Emergency Commad Center Operator 

FAE: Fire Apparatus Engineer


----------



## bigburly912

knucklegary said:


> Burly,
> 
> The pipe stacked in foreground through me..
> Calif central valley AGRI is full of same type irrigation pipe..
> 
> Or, my phone app photos are tiny, are those lamp poles?
> 
> Either way, I now can make out the deer running across field.. it's time for some stronger glasses:green:



Structural steel. I handle material for substation/line job/telecom builds.


----------



## desert.snake

It is possible that it was created in 2014 in the USA
https://www.nature.com/news/engineered-bat-virus-stirs-debate-over-risky-research-1.18787

I have been introduced a monthly quarantine, now I only go to work and back, because continuous production.


----------



## bykfixer

Who's Greta Thornburg? 


Here's my AOC shirt.





Looks better in a bikini.

BTW, sober since Easter Sunday 26 years ago this year. Don't need no dope, don't want no booze. 

Now to tune in the Covid-19 death clock and read alphabet soup news mis-quotes. Woohoo!!


----------



## scout24

Red- While I appreciate your concern about heavy handed enforcement, I'll play devil's advocate. Our entire system- all of it is based on voluntary compliance. Consequence is a secondary concern for most people as it's a concept that has been so watered down in the last couple generations it's not funny. There aren't enough police, deputies, troopers, etc. to enforce policies related to this situation. This isn't "Please don't speed, please don't shoplift," this is please don't infect yourself or others for God's sake and people Just. Won't. Listen. Until it's somebody they know laying dead or dying, I really don't think they get it. Six damn feet apart. Use courtesy and manners.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

University of Pittsburgh scientists believe they’ve found potential coronavirus vaccine 4-2-20 [ nypost.com ]

Pitt Scientists Develop Potential COVID-19 Vaccine 4-2-20 [ pittsburghmagazine.com ]

Hydroxychloroquine /azithromycin for COVID-19: New Clinical Trial Results 3-30-20 [ physiciansweekly.com ]


----------



## bykfixer

Courtesy? What's that? Manners? That's for those other people. 

At first everybody across the planet were scared. But as time passes and folks don't see people melting just flopping over they become complacent. Then the gubment says "stay home", the same gubment that shut down their livlihood, and now promises to mail out a $1200 stipend (one of these days)……

There is an entire society going back to when Vietnam live was on the 6:30 news each evening that have never faced true adversity. 911 was probably the closest to that and by sundown we all knew our country was not being invaded by those scarey monsters from that country over there. Now this thing we are being told is going to keep us in peril for months……

We are in week, what? 3, 4? since the gubment pulled the plug and folks are looking around going "I don't know anybody sick".……yeah the news boasts the death clock every afternoon. Governors are holding press conferences scolding kids for being kids, but the common person in Idaho, in New Mexico or Arizona have been couped up for weeks now. And unless they are geeking out on numbers, locations, what exactly is this whole covid thing and all that, they are starting to scoff at the notion that it's even going to affect them at all. That's the folks who all self quarentined, social distance or just comply with CDC reccomendations. 

Some will never give up their ways. Some don't care about anybody but themselves. Screw covid I want what I want and I want it right now. We see a lot of that in our community that is now about 50/50 masked, unmasked people. I trained a youngster all winter and he went elsewhere. Good guy, means well. But the other day he was tasked to help me and I had to keep reminding him about my 3 foot circle is now 6 feet. Am I scared if gets 3 feet away that covid will get me? No. I'm more scared of some bored, unemployed person with a camera will snap a photo of us 4 feet apart and send it to the 6 o'clock news, then my boss sees it on tv and fires my happy arse. 

We have one lady who enters the building each afternoon spraying the air with lavender Lysol. One day my young trainee asked her why she did that. "Because people are stupid, and I have a sick grandma at home" she says. I quipped "nuff said".


----------



## knucklegary

I'd make it at minimum 10-12ft safety distance 

They have shown by slow motion video a cough or sneeze can project out more than 6 feet closer to 15ft

Agreed show people some respect. That silver haired old gal who enter my space and almost knocked me over.. she continued down the produce isle doing the same to other shoppers

Byk, luv Ol Glory!

Also, congrats on your 26yr sobriety!
Especially during these hectic times. Going off the wagon is made easy courtesy of our gubbeners with all these stinkin "essential" liquor and pot stores remain open for business. Gubment needs those tax $$


----------



## jabe1

Bykfixer, congrats on the 26 yrs! 
I’ve been at it since late June of ‘87...


----------



## bykfixer

KG, with gubner Ralph Nah-Thums crack downs I couldn't get pot if I wanted to. Too many folks with cameras snapping pix of people not social distancing. So unless hand dude my $25 via a shovel, then he hands me my stash back with a shovel……well you get the point. 

Speaking of sobriety: The other day in my grocery store there was this loud 82 year old homeless looking guy hollering about not being allowed to buy 6 cases of beer. Eventually he calmed down after being told he could buy 2 cases. The guy looked familiar. It was not until I saw a pickup truck in the parking lot with a locally famous license plate did I realize he was the guy who was once a professional motorcycle racer with enough raw talent to play pro ball in football, baseball or basketball who is what appears now to be a dried up miserable sot who now lives in his daddys basement. It was his dads truck he drove there btw. The guy is MY AGE and makes Keith Richards look young. My (older than I) identical twin looks like my little brother thanks to what I used to do and he did not. 
Naw man I never wanna go back that path again. 
One of my step sons is in rehab right now fighting addiction to marijuana. He has beat it twice but figured "eh, just this once" with buddies on New Years eve and now fighting it again. 

I just watched a newt youtube. The guy has a unique way of putting things in perspective. He was explaining how Italy ended up in the shape it's in covid-19-wise. He compared the population to the US by saying the US has 5.5x the number of people. So I did a what if and divided our cases by 5.5. The results were that we would be neck and neck with the UK and lagging behind Iran in total cases. Our death clock would have us barely above Germany and behind the Netherlands. 

He also spoke on how Chinese workers are all over the place in northern Italy as they bought up lots of Italian companies in places with the second oldest population in the world and how they continued near regular life through February. 

Now the blame game has lots of ammunician for everybody as the world as a whole dropped the ball. If China for example had reacted with crackdowns after 22 people were sick, yeah perhaps it would have prevented this thread. But their doctors had not figured out what it was at that point and the global economy had already spread it beyond containment by the time anybody knew how easily it spread. It's really nobodys fault. Had it not been a bat in a fish market in China, it may have been a fish in Spain or a cow in Denmark. Wherever it began and whoever it started from is not as important as the lesson the human race should learn from this. But we probably won't.

'87 Jabe? Good for you bro!! I do not know the day for me. I just know on my 40th b-day that year I was not sober but on Easter Sunday I was so I chose that date.

Edit: Correction, I did the math and it's 16 years not 26. I'm 56, not 66. End edit


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

knucklegary said:


> I lived through CA, Loma Prieta quake. Magnitude was around 7.0 Damage around my area was catastrophic. A friend was near completion building his new home, just waiting on final inspection. The house ripped right off the foundation bolts. Talk about rock 'n roll, that was a scary day!



The worst quake I have felt was a 7.2. We just got back from a week on a cross country train ride visiting family and were looking forward to no more shaking from the train. I went to the bathroom for a number 2. While sitting on the toilet, the earthquake starts. It caught me with my pants down and I couldn't go anywhere. Sitting on that toilet was like riding a mechanical bull for 30 seconds. Scared the sh#t out of me.


----------



## jabe1

I don’t think I would have made it to 40. Quit all of it at 22.
Now it’s flashlights and other gadgets...


----------



## bigburly912

Welp. A case in our town of around 3500 people has popped up in a low income housing development. It’s a converted hotel so there’s not much “social distancing” to be had. The fire department/rescue squad (they are the same here) responded to a call probably a week ago. Test results just came back and that person was infected. Therefore the fire department/rescue squad potentially infected every person they saw in that weeks time. It’s a mess out there guys. Be safe.


----------



## bykfixer

Hooked on Fenix said:


> The worst quake I have felt was a 7.2. ~snip~ I went to the bathroom for a number 2. While sitting on the toilet, the earthquake starts. It caught me with my pants down and I couldn't go anywhere. Sitting on that toilet was like riding a mechanical bull for 30 seconds. Scared the sh#t out of me.



Sounds like fate had you in the exact right place at the exact right time.


----------



## P_A_S_1

Hooked on Fenix said:


> The worst quake I have felt was a 7.2. We just got back from a week on a cross country train ride visiting family and were looking forward to no more shaking from the train. I went to the bathroom for a number 2. While sitting on the toilet, the earthquake starts. It caught me with my pants down and I couldn't go anywhere. Sitting on that toilet was like riding a mechanical bull for 30 seconds. Scared the sh#t out of me.



Lol..[emoji43]


----------



## SCEMan

Hmmm. 93-96% recovery rate even in the 60s (w/o preconditions), why aren't we seeing more of this in the news?






https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30257-7/fulltext

I cancelled attending a DRJ (Disaster Recovery Journal) business conference in Toronto due to SARS in 2004 (went the next year)...


----------



## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> I just watched a newt youtube. The guy has a unique way of putting things in perspective. He was explaining how Italy ended up in the shape it's in covid-19-wise. He compared the population to the US by saying the US has 5.5x the number of people. So I did a what if and divided our cases by 5.5. The results were that we would be neck and neck with the UK and lagging behind Iran in total cases.



Or you could just look at the numbers, which would tell you that that's not at all the case:


----------



## RedLED

If things are not bad enough here yesterday having one of our outdoor Cats get sick, and die, last night another one of our outdoor Cats was killed by a coyote.

That's two in one day, less than 24 hours

Swearing removed in favor of family friendliness and respect - Empath


----------



## PhotonWrangler

I'm sorry for your losses, Red.

Coyotes are a little spooky. They're (usually) afraid of adult humans but they're always sizing things up as a possible snack.


----------



## ven

Sorry to hear Red


----------



## scout24

Sorry to hear... :candle:


----------



## RedLED

Thank you, guy's.


----------



## RedLED

PhotonWrangler said:


> I'm sorry for your losses, Red.
> 
> Coyotes are a little spooky. They're (usually) afraid of adult humans but they're always sizing things up as a possible snack.


Not too long ago, I opened the door, and there were two coyotes right outside about three feet away. They can be bold.


----------



## chillinn

RedLED please be good to yourself. It is like waking up and finding one of your limbs missing. I lost my long timer coon in 2010, still not over him, and then lost the other 2 in 2016, and within a few months of each other. Nothing is so painful. I am still not ready to make the emotional investment with a new adoption, but someday soon because I have need and miss the companionship. I am still in shock from losing my older and only sister last August, just 52, and it was preventable. This is going to land hard on me when it fully hits. I am distracted by concern for my mother, but now taking definitive and positive steps to ensure she gets the care she needs by petitioning for guardianship and wresting control from the irresponsible and incompetent. 

Sorry I have been so rare, been lurking a lot. Nice to see the familiars checking in.

Just wanted to also note that coronavirus is no match for 254nm UV-C, and I expect neither can it withstand 1000lm of incan in close proximity. 

Pitt Medical has published the first peer reviewed research on a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine they developed. 

Go Panthers!


----------



## knucklegary

For last 10 days the Covid infected remains at 14 in my area. So the shelter order is having some good effect in my County 

Faces covered without scarfs or bandanas are not being let into one grocery chain

And, Wal-Mart's are limiting number of shoppers into stores 

NorCal is ready for a heavy winter style storm forecast to hit this afternoon.. 4-6" rain with up to 36" snow in higher elevations

Bummer all the ski resort's are ordered closed..

..and this morning our Gub just outlawed fun seekers traveling up to Tahoe and other Sierra resorts 

So, kids hide those skis and boards from plain sight of the highway patrol!


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> Hmmm. 93-96% recovery rate even in the 60s (w/o preconditions), why aren't we seeing more of this in the news?



Low mortality _if hospital care is available_, that is in the news.


----------



## RedLED

chillinn said:


> RedLED please be good to yourself. It is like waking up and finding one of your limbs missing. I lost my long timer coon in 2010, still not over him, and then lost the other 2 in 2016, and within a few months of each other. Nothing is so painful. I am still not ready to make the emotional investment with a new adoption, but someday soon because I have need and miss the companionship. I am still in shock from losing my older and only sister last August, just 52, and it was preventable. This is going to land hard on me when it fully hits. I am distracted by concern for my mother, but now taking definitive and positive steps to ensure she gets the care she needs by petitioning for guardianship and wresting control from the irresponsible and incompetent.
> 
> Sorry I have been so rare, been lurking a lot. Nice to see the familiars checking in.
> 
> Just wanted to also note that coronavirus is no match for 254nm UV-C, and I expect neither can it withstand 1000lm of incan in close proximity.
> 
> Pitt Medical has published the first peer reviewed research on a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine they developed.
> 
> Go Panthers!


Chillinn,

Thanks for your kind words. It sounds like you have a lot going on in your life, I hope everything works out.

All the best,

RedLED


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Low mortality _if hospital care is available_, that is in the news.



Even_ lower_ mortality if hospital care is factored in. Not to mention all the recovered unknown/unreported cases.


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> Even_ lower_ mortality if hospital care is factored in. Not to mention all the recovered unknown/unreported cases.



No, it's ~2% overall mortality [of known/reported cases] with full first-world hospital service, that's why you're seeing that number in the US for now; any degradation in service or unavailability raises that number significantly, plus more deaths from unrelated causes that could not be treated.

Keep in mind that hypertension alone bumps that number up to 6%, everything has to be in order once hospitalization is involved, any tiny issue can make things much worse.


----------



## Dave D

bykfixer said:


> Had it not been a bat in a fish market in China, it may have been a fish in Spain or a cow in Denmark.



Or under different circumstances it could have started in the U.S.A. like the 1918 Spanish flu did!


----------



## gurdygurds

Late last year there were coyotes attacking joggers and walkers in broad daylight out where I live. I have a knife clipped in my waistband any time I run the dirt roads or trails.


RedLED said:


> Not too long ago, I opened the door, and there were two coyotes right outside about three feet away. They can be bold.


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> No, it's ~2% overall mortality [of known/reported cases] with full first-world hospital service, that's why you're seeing that number in the US for now; any degradation in service or unavailability raises that number significantly, plus more deaths from unrelated causes that could not be treated.
> 
> Keep in mind that hypertension alone bumps that number up to 6%, everything has to be in order once hospitalization is involved, any tiny issue can make things much worse.



As I've stated before, the (~98%) recovery rate does not even factor in those who are infected and recover w/o being captured through testing, treatment or hospitalization. Be smart and careful, but unless you're in the high risk category the economic impact to your life will undoubtedly be much worse than COVID-19.


----------



## knucklegary

Likewise Gurdy.. I never leave home without my Spyderco Yojimbo2 IWB

Those coyotes must of been hungry as hell!


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> but unless you're in the high risk category the economic impact to your life will undoubtedly be much worse than COVID-19.



If you're viewing this as a threat-to-self issue, yes, odds are there will be little to no health impact on you personally when you catch the bug.

If you're viewing this as a threat-to-group issue, everything will be fine so long as your local hospital has vacancy and everything they need, and you aren't in a position to infect anyone else when you are asymptomatic.


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> If you're viewing this as a threat-to-self issue, yes, odds are there will be little to no health impact on you personally when you catch the bug.
> 
> If you're viewing this as a threat-to-group issue, everything will be fine so long as your local hospital has vacancy and everything they need, and you aren't in a position to infect anyone else when you are asymptomatic.



Good point. I'm viewing this a threat to my family (wife, kids, grandkids, etc.) as that's all I have any control over. For me, worrying about things outside my circle of influence will only be detrimental to my well being.


----------



## wacbzz

StarHalo said:


> If you're viewing this as a threat-to-self issue, yes, odds are there will be little to no health impact on you personally when you catch the bug.
> 
> If you're viewing this as a threat-to-group issue, everything will be fine so long as your local hospital has vacancy and everything they need, and you aren't in a position to infect anyone else when you are asymptomatic.



This. 

How is there even an attempt at arguing against “group” think with COVID-19? I’d be willing to bet such “me” think would quickly dissolve away if a family member got sick and passed...


----------



## bykfixer

Dave D said:


> Or under different circumstances it could have started in the U.S.A. like the 1918 Spanish flu did!



Agreed Dave. 
The jury is still out where it began and the US certainly did their part to spread it but according to history the Spanish being neutral during WW1 still had a free press. So apparently they were the only big country telling the story about a bad bug wiping out their country so they got tagged with the title. Another little known fact is it was round 2 that did the most damage. It seems there had been an epidemic prior that did not affect near as many people but the advent of WW1 caused soldiers from all over the place to move around in cramped conditions. 

It seems that one wiped out young adults the most. We could learn a lot about this covid thing by studying the Spanish flu. 
https://www.facebook.com/1797646913/posts/10213113791318234?d=n&sfns=mo


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> Good point. I'm viewing this a threat to my family (wife, kids, grandkids, etc.) as that's all I have any control over. For me, worrying about things outside my circle of influence will only be detrimental to my well being.





wacbzz said:


> How is there even an attempt at arguing against “group” think with COVID-19? I’d be willing to bet such “me” think would quickly dissolve away if a family member got sick and passed...



And there you have it.

All the threat-to-self-ers are here to tell you that this isn't that big a deal, that the numbers can be smoothed over, because this isn't going to affect *me*. And the threat-to-group-ers are telling you this is more important than it seems, sharing the data, because this might affect *you*.

My wife was at the store last week waiting to browse the deli behind an older lady; the older woman noticed my wife and said "Did you need in here," and my wife replied "No rush, I'm just giving you your personal space," and the older woman said "Oh I'm not worried about it." Why wasn't the older lady worried about it? Threat to self. Why did this bother my wife enough to relate the story? Threat to group.


----------



## Tachead

RedLED said:


> Not too long ago, I opened the door, and there were two coyotes right outside about three feet away. They can be bold.


JHP at high velocity quickly takes away their boldness. 

For less lethal, Bear Spray(Pepper Spray) and/or 12 Gauge Bean Bags/Rubber Balls should work well to remind them to be fearful of humans again. 

So sorry about your loss Red. 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## RedLED

Thanks, Tachead. It was scary to just open the door to your house and see the coyotes right there. With that said, this was at our desert house, and well, this is their turf. Also, we live in a country club so they can use the golf course to hide, and cover a lot of ground quickly.

Really, I Don't hate the coyotes, that is what they do. This area is so built up now you hardly hear them howl at night anymore. There was a time when you could hear them howling all night, I miss that.

You are right, they hate gunshots. Once we were out shooting, and one came near us, to check us out, all it took was a shot in the air and he took off and never looked back or came back. We did not shoot at him because he did not do anything to us, and he is in his world. We were the interlopers that day.

Best,

RL


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> And there you have it.
> All the threat-to-self-ers are here to tell you that this isn't that big a deal, that the numbers can be smoothed over, because this isn't going to affect *me*. And the threat-to-group-ers are telling you this is more important than it seems, sharing the data, because this might affect *you*.



I don't recall myself or anyone else stating it isn't going to affect "me" and I certainly fall in the high risk segment. My perspective is simply to do everything I can to protect my family and any others I can assist; if that makes me a "threat-to-selfer", so be it. But if you're implying your designation somehow correlates to my not "sharing the data" or following social distancing, etc., you need to be mindful of labeling and tacitly shaming people you've never met or even know. Sharing negative hypothetical scenarios that do not translate into beneficial & actionable behavior does nothing but further depress people already heavily stressed. During this national (& global) emergency we need a unified effort with everyone pulling together for the best outcome. 

I just took a drive through Claremont and observed numerous young adults in close contact, milling together on the sidewalk. But it didn't occur to me to label them as a group. I simply saw people exhibiting dangerous behavior.


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> you need to be mindful of labeling and tacitly shaming people you've never met or even know.



It's not shaming, it's two different approaches; you want the businessman on a sales call to run a hard threat-to-self gameplan, find the advantage and take the lead. The problem is that this approach has no place in a pandemic - it is not beneficial or actionable to tell a bunch of seniors that they will almost certainly not die if they get sick, and that this is a secret that is being hidden from them. That's something you would only do if you felt it wasn't going to harm you, and so no one else should worry about being harmed.

Reduce the stress by logically resolving the problem, not by using individual pieces of data to declare the problem invalid.


----------



## RedLED

Come on guy's...please...Star, when this is over, you can use our apartment on Park Ave, and invite A.O.C. over.


----------



## knucklegary

Red, I'd bet she's a ball at parties


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> It's not shaming, it's two different approaches; you want the businessman on a sales call to run a hard threat-to-self gameplan, find the advantage and take the lead. The problem is that this approach has no place in a pandemic - it is not beneficial or actionable to tell a bunch of seniors that they will almost certainly not die if they get sick, and that this is a secret that is being hidden from them. That's something you would only do if you felt it wasn't going to harm you, and so no one else should worry about being harmed.
> 
> Reduce the stress by logically resolving the problem, not by using individual pieces of data to declare the problem invalid.



Wow. You just don't get it. Defining individuals by labeling as "bad" (threat-to-self-ers), and "good" (threat-to-group-ers) is inherently shaming and your prior usage implies just that. 

No, it's very beneficial during traumatic times to provide relevant, verifiable, objective information that reassures people rather than depresses them (e.g., FDR Fireside Chats). When I'm taking all possible actions to prevent catching COVID-19 (and in a high-risk category), what's better for my well-being & psyche; hearing there's a high probability I'll survive an infection, or how much worse it could possibly get.


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> Wow. You just don't get it.



Yin and yang, one isn't good or the other evil. And "everything should be fine" isn't a preparation technique. But we disagree.



knucklegary said:


> Red, I'd bet she's a ball at parties



Verified.


----------



## bykfixer

Yesterday I noticed that the patterns of behavior have begun to return back to the ways of pre-covid. Reading social media posts, watching crowds through my windshield, yes there are still times that people (gasp) get within 6 feet of each other in groups of (gasp, gasp) 12 or 13…… while politicians do what they did and say what they said before. Like pre-covid, when the weather goes cloudy and cool folks hunker down. When the weather is nice, they go out. The virus knows no boundries, does not assign labels and does not care black, white, red or blue. It seems to affect males more than females but probably does not prefer one over the other. "Host" is the only label that matters. But like a few days after 911 people started to return to normal patterns. 

Only now, say we were all rats in a maze. Before covid that maze was a vast array of directional choices. For the time being many of the paths are blocked in the maze. So we bump into a wall, turn left, right or go back where we started. It's what humans do, virus or no virus. Now we have rats setting up megaphones yelling at the population of rats that we are all doomed. Some are singing koom bye ya through a mega phone. Some rats hear the doom sayers and get annoyed. Some say those koom bye ya singers are wasting their time while others sing along. Some will argue with this post. Some will say "that's one weird dude talking about rats in a maze". Some won't read past the first 12 words. Yet that was a pattern before covid and will be after covid. 

Yesterday while hanging a flag pole holder a mocking bird was serenading to anything or nothing. It did not care about no stupid Corona virus. To me that was a signal that it's going to be alright. Mocking birds sang every spring where I live before, and if my number in the big lottery in the sky aint picked before next spring I will hear one sing next spring.

It seems that some box stores had been deemed irresponsible for allowing as many customers as wanted to through the doors. Now Mrs Fixer and I said "nuh uh I aint goin' there right now" and waited patiently for a day when it wasn't so crowded. The gubment said "social distancing helps" so we social distance. It's just common sense. I saw a post at fakebook about a party in LA that had the cops called. Not because of loud music or crazy people acting crazy. No because about 200 young people were celebrating a little girls first birthday. The cops broke it up and some were pretty pissed off. The old man who is hunkered down because he don't want to die yet, so he called the cops, and the young adults who just wanted to have a little fun on a Friday afternoon. Some of them were pissed off too. Both sides have a valid point. Were they practicing social distancing by standing 6 feet apart? Don't matter because it was a group of more than ten. 

Where I work, there is a morning meeting everyday. Now each morning it includes a covid checklist. Now because there are 14 people on the construction crew there has to be two meetings of seven due to the ten people rule. Never mind it is outdoors in an area large enough for 14 folks to easily stand 10, 12, 20 feet apart. And they pass around a clip board for each person to initial that they will follow the dictates of our governor. At the end of the day, same thing. But here's the rub. One inkpen gets passed around to one sheet of paper. Think about that. I did. 

I told the safety officer my thoughts so each person now has their own pen and their own copy of a form that now has 30 places to sign. One for each day of the month and every afternoon the safety guy takes a photo of each persons form with an official covid 19 zoom lens point and shoot camera so he can stay 6 feet away. 

Many of the rules imposed on us road workers is because of people riding around with cameras taking photos of two guys paving, not being 6 feet away from one another and sending them to news channels. The forms are required so that if an employee gets sick they can't sue the company. Overall we still laugh, still smile, still hold the door for others and generally enjoy life despite the challenges. It aint like rocket bombs or mortars are flying in and exploding all around, or bullets wizzing past. Each of us has worked in sketchy places after dark where, yes there were bullets wizzing past or rocks being thrown. Bottles of **** being thrown at us for blocking a lane of a highway after a Redskins game. Cars whizzing past at 70mph 15" away. Stuff like that. We all take this covid thing serious, both young and old but we don't let it paralyze us. 
Life goes on.


----------



## wweiss

Wash hands often, don’t touch face. Now, it has been found that even 6’ is too close as transmission is by minute vapor particles expelled from just breathing or talking. Wear a covering of any sort to prevent others from your “vapor”.


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## scout24

StarHalo- This is the second or third person (at least) that you're sparring with here because they don't agree with you. Please. Yours is not the only valid opinion... If you have a point to present, please do so and move on. Others are entitled to theirs as well no matter your feelings.


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## Poppy

I left my house only three times in the past 2 1/2 weeks, then only to get groceries.
We pretty much maintain our distance even within our house, well not the twins, but my daughter and I do.

We keep an exhaust fan in her bedroom running with a window cracked open in the other end of the house. She had a fever, and was finally tested and it came back negative, but we don't know what percentage of false negatives the test renders. She spends most of her day in her bedroom, so the negative pressure should help to protect us somewhat, although I haven't blocked off the air return register from her bedroom. 

We live in the NE section of New Jersey, and we are probably only a week behind NYC. Fortunately, according to Gov. Cuomo, experts predict that NYC is nearing the apex, and should top out in 3-7 days. 

There are a number of lakes in town, one in particular is circled by a road and people in the community like to take the 1 1/2 mile loop for exercise. Our Mayor has asked them to walk around their own block for exercise, rather than congregate walking around the lake. People apparently are walking in small groups, perhaps family members, but, and, pass by too closely, as one group passes another.

Enjoying the sun yesterday, sitting on my front porch, I called over to my neighbor across the street. He has a house full. He personally had run a fever for three weeks, and is finally over it.

I'm still looking for ways to long distance socialize with my Dad, and found this story:
[h=1]Coronavirus Bingo? N.J. neighbors gather for social distancing game on the water. (VIDEO)[/h]https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...ocial-distancing-game-on-the-water-video.html


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## Devildude

Living approximately 3.5 to 4 hours NW of New York City things are fairly calm. I wish that people would calm down and relax though. Too many are walking scared, this will pass and things will return to normal. I have enjoyed the time off to get back to nature. Birds can be very relaxing when you have time to observe them.


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## bykfixer

Well put devildude. 

The scurge in my community if you want to call it a scurge is people dropping their laytex gloves on the ground. I donated my box of 500 pairs to my local fire/ems dept. My son and I work on cars and keep boxes in the garage. I had one full one and felt like it would best serve my community if our local first responders have them. The guy I gave them to had man tears well up as he was so grateful. I just wear cotton gloves that are washable. They're cheap and readily available. 

Do laytex gloves help you? 
Check out this nurses perspective: 
https://www.facebook.com/97177340956/posts/10156842042090957?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo

Update: 
My brother wears a mask to stores now. He went to buy a BiC lighter to start his charcoal grill and in my state you have to be 21 to buy lighters. That meant he had to show an ID showing he is over 21. Gray hair doesn't matter it seems. Well to verify it was him he had to……wait for it……pull off his mask. He posted on fakebook how ridiculous that was. He also believes cops should be halting cars from New York, New Jersey, Rhode Island and Louisianna at the state line. He also belives that people should be limited to one gallon of milk, and all kinds of crazy stuff. I replied "if you are that scared light a candle from your gas stove in your house dummy and use the candle to light your charcoal". Sheesh.


----------



## knucklegary

Byk, I viewed discarded latex gloves sitting in grocery store baskets. WTF!

Now that's much better than tossing on the ground lol

Hey Star.. A bountiful of Yin is over-flowing in this State!


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

knucklegary said:


> Red, I'd bet she's a ball at parties


----------



## archimedes

I think the more overtly political commentary could and should be diverted to the Underground.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## knucklegary

LoL CG.. All in fun Arch..


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## SCEMan

bykfixer said:


> The scourge in my community if you want to call it a scourge is people dropping their laytex gloves on the ground.



I've observed the same on my walks in my area but with mask litter. My son-in-law works at Costco and complains that customers habitually discard their used gloves in the shopping carts.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

SCEMan said:


> I've observed the same on my walks in my area but with mask litter. My son-in-law works at Costco and complains that customers habitually discard their used gloves in the shopping carts.



I, for one, was relieved to see you've disembarked from that cruse ship. :nana:


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I, for one, was relieved to see you've disembarked from that cruse ship. :nana:


Sadly yes. While waiting for our refund, we have plenty of time now to sit back and view past trip memories.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

SCEMan said:


> Sadly yes. While waiting for our refund, we have plenty of time now to sit back and view past trip memories.



Was referencing your avatar picture. :laughing: New hat?


----------



## archimedes

knucklegary said:


> LoL CG.. All in fun Arch..


What is does, is stir up others to respond in kind.


----------



## Poppy

At the Stop and Shop near me, they put a plastic bag lined garbage can next to the shopping cart return, with a sign on it for gloves disposal.
It seems to have worked because there were quite a few gloves in it, and none on the parking lot ground.


----------



## Devildude

I think one of the slight positives for this summer might be a greater appreciation of nature. I have spent two weeks watching wild birds coming and going from the feeders that I have to take in at night. The main reason for that is I had a 200 pound black bear on my back porch Christmas night, that will wake you up quick. I almost spilled a fine bottle of imperial Russian stout to encourage said bear to go somewheres else. Two weeks later I had a male bobcat stroll through the same backyard. 
So enjoy nature and try to make the best of a difficult situation. We are all in the same boat, positivity goes a long way toward improving the spirit. That being said I am going to make some peanut butter fudge to further relax.


----------



## StarHalo

Well I want you guys to know that I'm open to all sides of the argument (enough so that I would post something from Fox News!), that I'm paying attention, and that we obviously all have the ultimate common goal of keeping our country well. We shouldn't let a disagreement about means divide us.


----------



## RedLED

Dude,

I will ill take two coyotes at my door over what you have dropping by any day.


----------



## bykfixer

Poppy said:


> At the Stop and Shop near me, they put a plastic bag lined garbage can next to the shopping cart return, with a sign on it for gloves disposal.
> It seems to have worked because there were quite a few gloves in it, and none on the parking lot ground.



Good to hear. Good idea. 

Mrs Fixer had a friend over to pick up some dog food, since she works at a pet store and her friend is avoiding stores lately. The lady did not want to come in the house since she has under lying health issues. I popped open the door and said "hello, by the way we are just as scared of you as you are us". We chatted a bit, outside on a nice spring day, all 15 feet apart under two oak trees just now budding. By the time she left all of our eyes were watering from all of the pollen. She chuckled and said "now that my allergies have kicked in everybody is going to think of me like a Salem witch". I reminded her she could rob a bank with a booger and Mrs Fixer told her if people get to close stick your finger up your nose, hold it out and shout "step away from the booger, step…away…from…the…booger".


----------



## wacbzz

archimedes said:


> I think the more overtly political commentary could and should be diverted to the Underground.



It appears that folks are heeding that request just as much as they are heeding the order to stay at home...:ironic:


----------



## archimedes

wacbzz said:


> It appears that folks are heeding that request just as much as they are heeding the order to stay at home...:ironic:


Human nature never changes :shrug:


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Maybe it's my imagination but I'm noticing more kooky drivers lately. There is far less traffic on the roads lately; my downtown area is as deserted as it is on Christmas morning. But there seems to be a higher percentage of drivers taking crazy chances, maybe because they think there are fewer people watching?


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Was referencing your avatar picture. :laughing: New hat?


 
I gotcha the first time . 
No, old hat from my former profession. CBCP (Certified Business Continuity Professional) is a certification from DRI (Disaster Recovery Institute). Seemed kinda timely to drag it out again.


----------



## Devildude

RedLED said:


> Dude,
> 
> I will ill take two coyotes at my door over what you have dropping by any day.



Yes, it does keep you on your toes. I have worked third shift for the last 11 years and it is about 50 feet from my house to the garage. I usually walk out in the dark with at least 1000 lumen light for safety. Many times I have had deer out past my garage that makes it interesting.


----------



## bigburly912

Lions at the Bronx zoo have tested positive for Covid-19


----------



## StarHalo

Tom Stefaniuk rolling around down in the heart of New York City today, some good messages here:


----------



## RedLED

Devildude said:


> Yes, it does keep you on your toes. I have worked third shift for the last 11 years and it is about 50 feet from my house to the garage. I usually walk out in the dark with at least 1000 lumen light for safety. Many times I have had deer out past my garage that makes it interesting.


Dude, do you live near Unadilla?


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

This made me laugh. It's labeled shelter in place coping levels measured in cartoon bears: https://gramho.com/media/2279494330702680944


----------



## bykfixer




----------



## StarHalo

The Tesla prototype ventilator in operation; looking forward to those Ford and GM models in a few months:


----------



## Devildude

RedLED said:


> Dude, do you live near Unadilla?



No, just outside Cooperstown in Middlefield. I have been to Unadilla many time, I have many fond remembrances of the drive in when I was younger.


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## PhotonWrangler

Good for them. It's clear that they've been putting a lot of effort into this. Maybe this will spark a Tesla medical division.


----------



## wacbzz

StarHalo said:


> The Tesla prototype ventilator in operation; looking forward to those Ford and GM models in a few months:



Folks had better buy the extended warranty with those Ford models...


----------



## Kestrel

wacbzz said:


> Folks had better buy the extended warranty with those Ford models...


Dude you beat me to it.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

wacbzz said:


> Folks had better buy the extended warranty with those Ford models...


Hopefully, Ford doesn't still stand for found on road dead.


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## bykfixer

Looking at the numbers this morning for some reason does not seem so shocking. It's kinda like looking at baseball stats. The ERA, RBI, home run/stolen bases and all that. The unfortunate thing is the home of the Yankees is running away with the championship at being the worst too. We in our lounge chair reading the stats is easy. Yet I also imagine what it must be like to be in the medical profession there. Realizing MASH was a comedy show you did get a peek into the lives of unsung heroes going day after day with the battle to save lives. Only instead of bullets, bombs and bayonets, in this case the enemy is the woundeds own immune system fighting off a virus. To the death in some cases. 

While New York should easily win the US championship, it now comes down to if they will win the world championship too. Some distinction, huh? Hopefully today and in the future some folks will turn their thoughts from inward and the inconvenience of life during this pandemic to outwards and send out some positive ju ju to folks on the front line not only to the home of the Yankees, but also the Tigers, the Phillys, the Saints, the Bears, the Dodgers and all those other cities with hospitals battling This Covid-19 thing.


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## Poppy

wacbzz said:


> Folks had better buy the extended warranty with those Ford models...





Kestrel said:


> Dude you beat me to it.


My last five cars were Fords, they were all problem free.

The last two had over a quarter million miles on them, and was, and is still running strong. The 1999 Crown Vic had 260,000 miles, was rear-ended and totaled. My 2008 Grand Marquis has 255,000 miles on her, and I wouldn't hesitate to drive her to Florida and back. She burns no oil between changes.

I bought the extended warranty on the '99 and @ 98,000 miles I brought it in to get anything fixed that was covered, before it hit the 100,000 mile mark. It needed a tie rod end.


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## Poppy

I am also looking forward to todays number for NYC.

Yesterday's numbers are promising that NYC is reaching the plateau, or better yet, has turned the corner. It may have been a fluke, but let's pray that today's numbers show that it is a trend.

From the NY Times, and from Cuomo's daily update.



The one-day death toll from the virus, which had increased each day since the outbreak’s early days, fell slightly for the first time, to 594 deaths reported Sunday, from 630 deaths reported Saturday. The state’s total stands at 4,159.

While the number of people currently hospitalized is still increasing, the one-day increase reported Sunday was the smallest in at least two weeks. The number grew by 574, to 16,479, from 15,905. That is a 4 percent increase. The increase the day before was 7 percent. Two weeks ago, the number was growing by more than 20 percent per day.

The number of people in intensive-care units, which are equipped with ventilators, is still increasing, too. But the rate of increase is slowing. Sunday’s count — 4,376 — was 6 percent higher than Saturday’s — the first single-digit percentage increase recorded in at least two weeks.


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## bykfixer

I buy Fords and Hondas, not because they don't break, but because what breaks tends to be from model to model and being familiar with both I know how to predict issues, but more important how to fix them myself. 

On my local radio station it was announced that 3 more died in a facility and the total is now 20 at that one place. Stats on our site showed 11 Friday and 10 saturday in the locality where one facility has themselves stated 20. Weird science.

Hopefully the New York situation has peaked. That would be ahead of schedule, which would be great news for those places still climbing. (and New York)


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## Tachead

wacbzz said:


> Folks had better buy the extended warranty with those Ford models...


As long as they stay away from the GM ones... 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


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## BVH

FORD = "Fix Or Repair Daily" was the buzz phrase when I was a kid. Fords are fine as are most brands out there.


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## Hooked on Fenix

Hate to be a buzzkill about New York's numbers, but at 10 a.m. PST, they had more deaths than all of yesterday. Their numbers are going up again. They had 594 deaths yesterday and 599 so far today. Yesterday, the U.S. severe or critical cases went from under 6,000 to 8,702 from Saturday into Sunday. Sunday is a bad day to base any conclusions off of. More places tend to be closed so more people are naturally quarantined at home. Monday is when the e.r. tends to get busy as many people ride it out through the weekend hoping to get better and many places to get help have shorter hours or are closed on Sunday.


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## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> Looking at the numbers this morning for some reason does not seem so shocking.



That reminds me of the scene in A Handmaid's Tale where the ladies are walking past the corpses hung on the wall, and Janine says with a shrug "It's amazing what you can get used to," while the others look at her in horror. There are reasons Atwood, Orwell, et al wrote things like this..

Other related news: I found a commenter some of you might enjoy, Karen Sehlke of Texas, who writes about Coronavirus being a "media driven" hoax “controlled by the radical people in powerful places," that “our government is under attack from within” while comparing the coronavirus to “the impeachment hoax” and arguing that those who take the current pandemic seriously “panic like sheep.”



> Wake up!!! This is what the beginning of socialism looks like!
> They are leading with fear causing you to panic like sheep.
> You don’t need hand sanitizer, toilet paper, and Lysol. You need common sense, a sense of direction, faith, a will to fight, and of course guns!
> Now wash your hands and live the life they don’t want you to have!



Karen Sehlke passed away on Thursday after being hospitalized for COVID-19. Her family is now taking GoFundMe donations.


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## bykfixer

I saw what might be a sign for the near future of the economy in my state today. Both good and bad. 

We can usually predict things based on indicators most don't notice in their daily routines. I've learned over the years in road construction that arrival of your fresh mix concrete can be an indicator. If it arrives on time and not early things are going well. If it arrives early, prepare for a belt tightening soon. If it arrives late buy stock. 

So behind my work office is a cement transfer facility. The cement that goes in concrete. Train cars arrive during the night and the tanks of the facility suck up the powder and store it. During the day trucks come by and fill up with a tank full to carry to a nearby concrete plant. 

Before covid 19 about 10 train cars a week were pumped into the storage tanks. Since the initial 14 day cdc reccomended slow down began one set of train cars has lasted nearly 3 weeks. Today the last car is being vacuumed of cement. 






The last car being unloaded. To the right is usually train cars full of cement. 
If another set of cars does not arrive overnight I will presume the cement factory has been interupted. If there are some there tomorrow or the next day I will presume orders are way down is why it took so long to unload the cars. 

Now on a positive note, the warehouse next door is usually loaded to the gills with product and trucks are waiting to be loaded. 





Hard to see but the lot is near empty as nearly all trucks are out on the road. 


All winter I could see both facilities clearly but not that spring has sprung a green wall has grown practically overnight. Frankly I would probably self quarentine the next week or two simply because the massive pollens this year.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

I went to Home Depot this morning. There were many more people sans masks than with them. HD was in one customer out - one customer in mode, only allowing 100 inside at a time. It was a good call on their part. Apparently most people have no understanding of how much six feet actually is.


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## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I went to Home Depot this morning. There were many more people sans masks than with them. HD was in one customer out - one customer in mode, only allowing 100 inside at a time. It was a good call on their part. Apparently most people have no understanding of how much six feet actually is.



Kinda scary. I can understand it with family members that live together but otherwise...


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## bykfixer

Our local box stores have a 1 person per 20 square feet thing going. I suppose they are getting that per corparate HQ.


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## nbp

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I went to Home Depot this morning. There were many more people sans masks than with them. HD was in one customer out - one customer in mode, only allowing 100 inside at a time. It was a good call on their part. Apparently most people have no understanding of how much six feet actually is.



I found this too. The funny thing is that it is kinda more about where people are in the store than how many are in the store. It’s a giant store. You could have 300 people looking at different things all far from each other, or 10 people looking at the same things bunched up in the same aisle. Regardless of how many or how few people are in there they still have to be cognizant of how close they are to others.


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## bykfixer

Exactly nbp. 
Mrs Fixer and I work as a team. We don't go out much lately but when we do we try real hard to stay two arms length from people. One thing I found is if you cough into your elbow people stay farther away. She doesn't hear so sporty so I stay behind her and if she hears me cough she knows it's incoming at her 6. (maybe 5-7 but you get the point.) We both use a cart to have a convoy between us and if somebody still doesn't get the hint I pick my nose. It sucks to have to scare people like that but these are crazy times we live in. 

If we had 5g for a year or two they'd possibly be reading your temperature on the way in. Some cops in China have thermal cameras on their helmets. And thanks to 5g the data goes to the gubment and if a citizen has a fever they quarentine that person. 5g is crazy, what it can do. But if we end up with a couple more rounds of covid-19 outbreaks they may have tech in the States by then to read our temperature as we enter stores, banks, restaraunts etc.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I went to Home Depot this morning. There were many more people sans masks than with them. HD was in one customer out - one customer in mode, only allowing 100 inside at a time. It was a good call on their part. Apparently most people have no understanding of how much six feet actually is.



Hmm, if only there was a place that sold tape measures. :laughing:


----------



## LGT

In supermarkets, where I see most people trying to keep the six foot distance, some just don’t care or have no idea how far six feet is. I also think stores should make aisles one way, up one, down the other. Even if you don’t need anything in a particular aisle, you have to go with the six foot apart traffic flow. And PLEASE, in this time of pandemic, STOP READING LABELS!! Know what you’re going to buy before you get there.


----------



## RedLED

nbp said:


> I found this too. The funny thing is that it is kinda more about where people are in the store than how many are in the store. It’s a giant store. You could have 300 people looking at different things all far from each other, or 10 people looking at the same things bunched up in the same aisle. Regardless of how many or how few people are in there they still have to be cognizant of how close they are to others.


The corporate general counsel, are having them take these steps as it will be part of their defense when the lawsuits start to roll in, and, if you thought all the years of lawsuits after 9/11 were bad, well, we ani't seen nothing yet!!

It will take decades to settle all of them.

Also, if there is any group that will profit off this disaster, it will be the lawyers.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Lawyers don't multiply income, they divide it.


----------



## knucklegary

The only people who "win" law suits are the lawyers


----------



## Poppy

LGT said:


> In supermarkets, where I see most people trying to keep the six foot distance, some just don’t care or have no idea how far six feet is. I also think stores should *make aisles one way, up one, down the other.* Even if you don’t need anything in a particular aisle, you have to go with the six foot apart traffic flow. And PLEASE, in this time of pandemic, STOP READING LABELS!! Know what you’re going to buy before you get there.


empahsis mine!

I fully agree.
I do Senior only shopping (you know those early in the morning reserved only for us.) We are respectful of our space, but when going in opposite directions of the isle, we are only inches apart. I hold my breath.

Maybe I'll write a note to the administration. Or tell the manager next time I am there.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Poppy said:


> empahsis mine!
> 
> I fully agree.
> I do Senior only shopping (you know those early in the morning reserved only for us.) We are respectful of our space, but when going in opposite directions of the isle, we are only inches apart. I hold my breath.
> 
> Maybe I'll write a note to the administration. Or tell the manager next time I am there.



Either way, passing in the opposite direction of overtaking, you're bound to find yourself in close quarters. I'm wearing a mask whenever I go the store.


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## Hooked on Fenix

LGT said:


> In supermarkets, where I see most people trying to keep the six foot distance, some just don’t care or have no idea how far six feet is. I also think stores should make aisles one way, up one, down the other. Even if you don’t need anything in a particular aisle, you have to go with the six foot apart traffic flow. And PLEASE, in this time of pandemic, STOP READING LABELS!! Know what you’re going to buy before you get there.



I have celiac disease. I have to read the labels. Anything with gluten can seriously mess me up. Companies are constantly changing recipes so I can't tell what will make me sick unless I look at a current label. I've made the mistake of assuming a product is is still gluten free before. Never again. Try to be patient with people reading the labels. For some of us, it it's absolutely essential. 

I think we are almost to the point where essential services are going to be shut down for a time. Public transportation may be getting shut down in Los Angeles because they can't keep the bus drivers from getting infected or follow basic precautions. Amazon employees are getting sick. Truck drivers are having a harder time finding rest stops where they can get food, shower, and use the restrooms. More grocery store workers, first responders, doctors and nurses, etc. are getting sick. A desalinization plant providing 10% of San Diego's water has essential employees quarantined on site (not enough people with their skill set to replace them if they get sick). The CAISO, California Independent Systems Operator (they manage the power grid) has cancelled in person meetings through April. They have to communicate via the Internet. I've never seen so many critical systems dependent on the Internet and electricity before. It's scary that with most at home, we need the Internet for food and supplies, communication for critical system workers (water, electricity, Internet, food delivery, government function, communicating with our doctors, school, etc). With people hacking into Zoom feeds already, I wonder what critical systems they'll be able to hack into while we're all dependent on the Internet. How much worse will this get if our most dependent pillars of infrastructure at this time (electricity and Internet) collapse?


----------



## Poppy

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Hate to be a buzzkill about New York's numbers, but at 10 a.m. PST, they had more deaths than all of yesterday. Their numbers are going up again. They had 594 deaths yesterday and 599 so far today. Yesterday, the U.S. severe or critical cases went from under 6,000 to 8,702 from Saturday into Sunday. Sunday is a bad day to base any conclusions off of. More places tend to be closed so more people are naturally quarantined at home. Monday is when the e.r. tends to get busy as many people ride it out through the weekend hoping to get better and many places to get help have shorter hours or are closed on Sunday.


It seems to me that you enjoy to be a "buzzkill"

Cuomo standardly gives is presentation at 11:00 AM EST. Exactly what time he gets his stats from one day to the next is unknown to us mere mortals. One may suspect that he gets them about the same time each day before his presentation. I would go with the numbers he gave at the time of his presentation, and see how they compare on the following day.

A few percentage points from one day to the next is not particularly significant. However when the previous days were multiples of that, THAT is significant.

I am not going to dwell on the minutia of the details, splitting of hairs, when the general trend is that things are topping off. 

Are more people going to die! ? Absolutely! Are the numbers of dead going to increase?! Absolutely! With more testing, will the numbers of infected increase? YES! Will the numbers of those hospitalized increase? That depends upon a number of factors. Will the numbers of those who have been tested positive, recovered increase? Absolutely!

____________________________________________________________________________________________
To members of the rest of the country,
New York and then New Jersey, separated by a river, are/is the epicenter of this attack (by a virus). It is coming to you.
Overall, social distancing appears to have slowed its progress. Wherever you are in the country, you need to try to slow it there too.

I believe that our country was caught with its pants down. Apparently, not enough PPE, ventilators, or drugs, nor the ability to manufacture them quickly enough, so that we did not have to rely on, being able to obtain them from, other countries. Yeah we got 1,000 ventilators from Asia. Probably more to come. IMO, we should have the ability to produce them ourselves.

___________________________________________________________________________________________
We'll get through this, and we will be stronger, and better, overall.
Love your neighbor as you do yourself.
And... Buy American!


----------



## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> I am not going to dwell on the minutia of the details, splitting of hairs, when the general trend is that things are topping off.



You're replying to a post that literally says things are not topping off. So where does your optimistic hunch come from?


----------



## 5S8Zh5

The science of soap – here’s how it kills the coronavirus 3-12-20

Alcohol-based disinfectants are also effective, but soap is a highly efficient way of killing the virus when it’s on your skin

Thu 12 Mar 2020 09.40 GMTLast modified on Wed 18 Mar 2020 10.56 GMT

Viruses can be active outside the body for hours, even days. Disinfectants, liquids, wipes, gels and creams containing alcohol are all useful at getting rid of them – but they are not quite as good as normal soap.

When I shared the information above using Twitter, it went viral. I think I have worked out why. Health authorities have been giving us two messages: once you have the virus there are no drugs that can kill it or help you get rid of it. But also, wash your hands to stop the virus spreading. This seems odd. You can’t, even for a million dollars, get a drug for the coronavirus – but your grandmother’s bar of soap kills the virus.

So why does soap work so well on the Sars-CoV-2, the coronavirus and indeed most viruses? The short story: because the virus is a self-assembled nanoparticle in which the weakest link is the lipid (fatty) bilayer. Soap dissolves the fat membrane and the virus falls apart like a house of cards and dies – or rather, we should say it becomes inactive as viruses aren’t really alive.

The slightly longer story is that most viruses consist of three key building blocks: ribonucleic acid (RNA), proteins and lipids. A virus-infected cell makes lots of these building blocks, which then spontaneously self-assemble to form the virus. Critically, there are no strong covalent bonds holding these units together, which means you do not necessarily need harsh chemicals to split those units apart. When an infected cell dies, all these new viruses escape and go on to infect other cells. Some end up also in the airways of lungs.

You can’t, for any price, get a drug for the coronavirus – but your grandmother’s bar of soap kills it
When you cough, or especially when you sneeze, tiny droplets from the airways can fly up to 10 metres. The larger ones are thought to be the main coronavirus carriers and they can go at least two metres.

These tiny droplets end on surfaces and often dry out quickly. But the viruses remain active. Human skin is an ideal surface for a virus. It is “organic” and the proteins and fatty acids in the dead cells on the surface interact with the virus.

When you touch, say, a steel surface with a virus particle on it, it will stick to your skin and hence get transferred on to your hands. If you then touch your face, especially your eyes, nostrils or mouth, you can get infected. And it turns out that most people touch their face once every two to five minutes.

Washing the virus off with water alone might work. But water is not good at competing with the strong, glue-like interactions between the skin and the virus. Water isn’t enough.

Soapy water is totally different. Soap contains fat-like substances known as amphiphiles, some of which are structurally very similar to the lipids in the virus membrane. The soap molecules “compete” with the lipids in the virus membrane. This is more or less how soap also removes normal dirt from the skin.

The soap not only loosens the “glue” between the virus and the skin but also the Velcro-like interactions that hold the proteins, lipids and RNA in the virus together.

Alcohol-based products, which pretty much includes all “disinfectant” products, contain a high-percentage alcohol solution (typically 60-80% ethanol) and kill viruses in a similar fashion. But soap is better because you only need a fairly small amount of soapy water, which, with rubbing, covers your entire hand easily. Whereas you need to literally soak the virus in ethanol for a brief moment, and wipes or rubbing a gel on the hands does not guarantee that you soak every corner of the skin on your hands effectively enough.

So, soap is the best, but do please use alcohol-based sanitiser when soap is not handy or practical.

• Pall Thordarson is a professor of chemistry at the University of New South Wales, Sydney


----------



## Poppy

StarHalo said:


> You're replying to a post that literally says things are not topping off. So where does your optimistic hunch come from?


Hey brother in the flashlight world I still respect you.

My HUNCH! I wish you and I were face to face to see if you would speak to me in that manner.

i google cuomo daily update


----------



## RedLED

Say, I was wondering something...has any one here tested positive for the COVID-19? Do we know of anyone?


----------



## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> Hey brother in the flashlight world I still respect you.
> 
> My HUNCH! I wish you and I were face to face to see if you would speak to me in that manner.
> 
> i google cuomo daily update



My response isn't any sort of challenge or chest-pounding; it comes off as strange that the entire page displayed is dealing with the reality of the numbers and how we deal with this new day to day life, then inevitably someone posts that things have probably already turned around and everything's fine and nothing to see here - I don't understand where these people are coming from, I know for certain what numbers I've seen in the press, what I've had to deal with at my job in person, how others are having difficulty in this time, but somehow there's a select group who feel it's best to just not prepare, that it would be easier to forward an educated guess about what the current statistics are and proceed from there with rose-colored glasses. I don't get it. I would ask you this question in person.




RedLED said:


> Say, I was wondering something...has any one here tested positive for the COVID-19? Do we know of anyone?



Has anyone tested? Any leads on where such a thing might be an option?


----------



## knucklegary

As of right now I think Star is feeling a lil sick to his stomach?


----------



## Poppy

My daughter tested negative last week, and her fever lowered, and then increased. What does that mean? NO one knows.


----------



## Fish 14

I think this whole covid thing is way blown out of proportion. Everytime I ran out I make it a point to ask a couple people if they know anyone who has it, or if anyone they know, know anyone who has it. And all the answers so far have been"I don't know anyone, and no one I know, knows anyone who has covid" I'm not saying it's fake, in just saying we are being lied to on a gigantic level.


----------



## Kestrel

My ex- had it in February, and she was the sickest she had been in her life; to the point of thinking she was actually going to die. So there's that.


----------



## bigburly912

2 people in my town have tested positive and were exposed to several others. I know one person with it. Yes, it’s real. If it’s in my town in the furthest corner of the coal fields of Virginia where the average salary is around 20000 dollars and I have less people in my entire county than you do in your town, then I guarantee it’s coming to you. I’d say it is about to explode here. You’ve got 2 stores to choose from and most of the older folk don’t want to “drive the extra 5 minutes” to the much larger town down the road to do their shopping. We shall see.


----------



## StarHalo

knucklegary said:


> As of right now I think Star is feeling a lil sick to his stomach?



Feeling really serene right now, we discussed my weekend plans many posts ago and I gotta say it was a good weekend. I also had a persistent dry cough a couple weeks ago that hung around for a few days and then that was it, so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm antigenic/already had it.


----------



## bigburly912

Poppy said:


> Hey brother in the flashlight world I still respect you.
> 
> My HUNCH! I wish you and I were face to face to see if you would speak to me in that manner.
> 
> i google cuomo daily update



There’s an ignore option on this forum. Makes it a pleasant place.


----------



## knucklegary

I may have some antigens floating around from SARs in 2004, but IDK.. VA hospital never tested me for the virus. Doc just told me go home take aspirin for fever and drink plenty of agua 

22 folks tested pos in my County of 200,000.. we'll see what the numbers looks like by end of Apr


----------



## ven

RedLED said:


> Say, I was wondering something...has any one here tested positive for the COVID-19? Do we know of anyone?



Obviously not US side, UK side yes 2. Older, Bob is 70 and had a persistent cough for 3 maybe 4 weeks. He tested positive and so did his wife. 

We have daily screening in work, masks, any cough or alike it’s off work and isolate . Even a sniffle!!! 1 in toilets, 1 in Vape area, one way in, other way out where possible. 

Boris J moved to hospital , now in intensive care!!! 

Stay safe guys and gals.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

double post.


----------



## bykfixer

bigburly912 said:


> There’s an ignore option on this forum. Makes it a pleasant place.



I don't want to miss a thing. 
I read, shake my head, decide mark a spot or move on, then just move on. 

Can't speak for others grocery stores but where I live you skirt the outter perimeter of the store where the aisles are nice and wide. It's also where foods best for you are located. We stocked up on the stuff you have to go down the inner rows for like crackers and pastas. 

Social distancing has shown to reduce the accelaration rate everywhere folks impliment it. Deaths will be rising long after new cases fall. 

Sending out positive ju ju to Boris J.


----------



## Tachead

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I went to Home Depot this morning. There were many more people sans masks than with them. HD was in one customer out - one customer in mode, only allowing 100 inside at a time. It was a good call on their part. Apparently most people have no understanding of how much six feet actually is.


Here they have closed all Home Depots and other hardware stores and only allow curbside pickup. It's a good thing they were forced to close too(government forced closure) as people were shopping like nothing was going on before they did that... Idiots. 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## RedLED

ven said:


> Obviously not US side, UK side yes 2. Older, Bob is 70 and had a persistent cough for 3 maybe 4 weeks. He tested positive and so did his wife.
> 
> We have daily screening in work, masks, any cough or alike it’s off work and isolate . Even a sniffle!!! 1 in toilets, 1 in Vape area, one way in, other way out where possible.
> 
> Boris J moved to hospital , now in intensive care!!!
> 
> Stay safe guys and gals.


I hope your PM gets well. I remember when I was a teen you could walk up to the front door of No. 10, and there was one Metropolitan Police Officer there. Now it is all sealed off at Whitehall.

Best,

RL


----------



## markr6

Poppy said:


> My daughter tested negative last week, and her fever lowered, and then increased. What does that mean? NO one knows.



Yeah I wonder how many people had this thing early on. Back in February my ex wasn't feeling well for a week. Then had pink eye...we just now connected the dots after hearing about that as a less common symptom. But test or no test, I guess it doesn't matter at this point.


----------



## Poppy

markr6 said:


> Yeah I wonder how many people had this thing early on. Back in February my ex wasn't feeling well for a week. Then had pink eye...we just now connected the dots after hearing about that as a less common symptom. But test or no test, I guess it doesn't matter at this point.


Hopefully she was infected, beat it, and now has immunity. :thumbsup:

I guess we'll never know what percentage of our population had it, unless they come up with a very inexpensive test, and test huge segments of the population so that mathematicians can extrapolate out. That kind of data can be helpful when future pandemics break out.


----------



## bigburly912

Corona


----------



## knucklegary

Does it violate privacy laws for the big box and grocery store chains to post a large chalk board with number of known infected who has recently shopped in those places?

That would sure wake up these a-holes that don't abide to social distancing


----------



## scout24

BigBurly- I'm not thinking that would be in the spirit of things here at CPF... Might be worth editing your post.


----------



## Poppy

StarHalo said:


> My response isn't any sort of challenge or chest-pounding; it comes off as strange that the entire page displayed is dealing with the reality of the numbers and how we deal with this new day to day life, then inevitably someone posts that things have probably already turned around and everything's fine and nothing to see here - I don't understand where these people are coming from, I know for certain what numbers I've seen in the press, what I've had to deal with at my job in person, how others are having difficulty in this time, but somehow there's a select group who feel it's best to just not prepare, that it would be easier to forward an educated guess about what the current statistics are and proceed from there with rose-colored glasses. I don't get it. I would ask you this question in person.
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone tested? Any leads on where such a thing might be an option?


You currently are writing so unclearly compared to how you used to write, that I wonder if you are self medicating.

My posts, do in fact deal with the reality of the numbers. 
The number of deaths are an indicator of where we were 7 to 21 days ago. ( I admit that is only an estimation on my part, based on some general information. It takes 3-14 days to show symptoms, (3-5 days to get test results) and then hours or days on a ventilator before one dies.) The age, and health condition, prior to contracting the virus also affects the outcome, and the duration of time prior to succumbing. Those people who die today, or yesterday, were walking dead 1-3 weeks ago. 

Reporting the number of deaths, hopefully brings home to the general population how serious this disease is. 
Reporting the number of positive tests, brings home how wide spread, and how rapidly it is spreading.
Unfortunately, if one does not understand geometric progression, one is not impacted by the significance until the numbers in his/her region are out of control.


Regarding: "there's a select group who feel it's best to just not prepare,"
If you are including me in this group, you are obviously just rambling.

Regarding " proceed from there with rose-colored glasses."
In 1929 during the stock market crash, people were so depressed that they were jumping to their deaths.
Orson Wells' "War of The Worlds" did too.
Where there is positive information to be shared, it should be shared.

Yesterday's report of New York's Governor Cuomo was solemn, but pointed to an indication that they have reached or are near the peak of the curve.
Today, NYC's mayor De Blasio indicated that three days in a row, the numbers are improving.

Three states, Wisconsin, Washington, and California, either sent ventilators directly to NY or returned them to the Feds for dissemination as needed.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

The statistics for Pierce County (3rd highest number in WA.) have been like a yoyo for sometime. 






There are currently 717 reported* cases. 12 people have died. *The statistics for McChord AFB and Fort Lewis (JBLM) are no longer being made public. The powers that be do not want our enemies knowing our state of readiness. https://www.stripes.com/news/us/pen...tary-linked-infections-eclipse-1-000-1.624244 

I've become somewhat aware of how often I touch my face. Lord only knows the actual number.  :eeew:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

BTW, At Albertsons's this morning, they've installed sneeze guards at all the checkout stands. Kinda like at the bank only smaller. An employee said corporate is going to start allowing only 30% of the store's capacity of customers in at a time. 

I was able to purchase everything on my list except for Tylenol, Adams peanut butter and some baby wipes. There was a total of three packages of toilet paper.


----------



## bykfixer

Hmmm

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/06/an_advantaged_disease_indeed_142867.html
Kinda puts things into perspective with a clear headed approach. 
Something to chew on here.

Keep in mind, this article is written by a conservative. Not trying to bring politics into this. Just trying to share an op ed piece written by somebody saying "chill folks, this too will pass but what we do now can have consequences later"


----------



## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> Regarding " proceed from there with rose-colored glasses."
> In 1929 during the stock market crash, people were so depressed that they were jumping to their deaths.
> Orson Wells' "War of The Worlds" did too.
> Where there is positive information to be shared, it should be shared.



See, it's possible to have a dialogue without implied threat of violence. "We need to stay positive but prepared during this time" is something we can all agree to, not a big deal.

The three-day average does have a leveling bump in it, but it's better to look at the ten-day average to better grasp the overall curve. 



bykfixer said:


> https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/04/06/an_advantaged_disease_indeed_142867.html
> Kinda puts things into perspective with a clear headed approach.
> Something to chew on here.



Spoiler alert for the rest of the group: It's another "you can interpret the numbers to make the flu more deadly" _scientific-opinion_ piece.


----------



## download

As a Hong Konger, my daughter was born in the period of SARS, those experience burn into my memory.
Our people treat it very seriously, like live or dead. And we do know how to interpret the CCP dictatorship news. 
If you don't, you should realize what is happening in your country by their misleading. 

For the future, the Swiss man give a lot of useful information. Please Please Please take away the bias, see what could learn from it.
https://theyflyblog.com/
https://www.youtube.com/user/SKiLLsSoLoN/featured


----------



## syga

Fish 14 said:


> I think this whole covid thing is way blown out of proportion. Everytime I ran out I make it a point to ask a couple people if they know anyone who has it, or if anyone they know, know anyone who has it. And all the answers so far have been"I don't know anyone, and no one I know, knows anyone who has covid" I'm not saying it's fake, in just saying we are being lied to on a gigantic level.



Maybe ask the doctors and nurses at your hospital if they know anybody who has it.


----------



## Fish 14

I don't believe the numbers the media is telling us are real. I think they are far less. Government is using this time of distraction to push laws into effect that are unconstitutional. Ban the media for 30 days and all your fears will go away.


----------



## Fish 14

The government made a public statement years ago about how they control the media by inserting CIA personnel into every media outlets in the USA. if you don't believe me Google Anderson Cooper, he made a statement about how he is in the CIA


----------



## scout24

I believe the United States and a few other countries are big enough as to where you can live many miles away from an area with plenty of cases and not understand the fuss. (Murdo, South Dakota anyone?) I'm 120 miles WNW of Manhattan, and boy howdy are the numbers in the neighboring counties through the roof. There are people I know who are posting on FB of friends of theirs who have died from this. Our local hospital doesn't publish numbers of cases they're treating, saying "it varies from day to day." Yes it's real, yes it's spreading, and flattening the curve doesn't mean less cases, it just means prolonging the time it will take to let this run it's course. Don't be complacent, take it seriously for your friends and family's sake if not your own.


----------



## bigburly912

Fish 14 said:


> The government made a public statement years ago about how they control the media by inserting CIA personnel into every media outlets in the USA. if you don't believe me Google Anderson Cooper, he made a statement about how he is in the CIA



He did an internship for the CIA years ago, is that what you are referencing?


----------



## Fish 14

He worked for them in collage.


----------



## Fish 14

I don't want to turn this into a conspiracy thread, but I think they can make a vaccine a lot faster than 16 months.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

wacbzz said:


> Folks had better buy the extended warranty with those Ford models...





Hooked on Fenix said:


> Hopefully, Ford doesn't still stand for found on road dead.


 

Last Thursday, a few hours before Florida came under a Stay Home Order, Cleetus McFarland, a good ole boy, held the first ever Freedom 500 car race. Leave it to Florida Man. :laughing: Cleetus purchased 22 retired police Crown Vics, all with 100,000 plus miles on them. He had roll cages and a bottle of nitrous installed in all of them, then invited his best friends to race. The Freedom 500 was 100 laps on Cleetus's recently purchased 3/8 mile oval racetrack. 

None of the Crown Vics were taken out of contention by mechanical failure. 

Just sayin. 

- Chevrolet/Caddy Man for the last 43 years


----------



## Fish 14

Oh the good ol crown Vic's.


----------



## Kestrel

Along those same lines; my internship with Argonne National Labs 25 yrs ago, permits the US Dept of Energy to control discussion on this forum through my administrative powers here.



Fish 14 said:


> I don't want to turn this into a conspiracy thread, but I think they can make a vaccine a lot faster than 16 months.


Do you know how often forum staff read posts such as, "I don't want this to (XXXX), but (xxxx).", and then have to clean up the resulting mess w/ subsequent member replies ?

It is a very transparent method to initiate a conversation towards a supposedly-undesirable direction, but to preface that by denying the blame for doing so ahead of time.
It's a pretty weak position to take, and one that forum staff have been seeing since the dawn of online forums.

If you think that XXXX _does not_ equal xxxx, don't suggest it - staff will have to clean up the mess.
If you _do think_ that XXXX equals xxxx, at least accept responsibility for trolling the conversation.

Suggestion; if you don't want to have a conversation, don't start that same conversation that you are disavowing in advance.
The CPF Underground is the forum for such things; feel free to explore that direction there if you truly have an interest.


----------



## wacbzz

Chance - you’re the second person to mention 100,000+ mile Crown Vic’s in this thread. I’m just here to remind you both that one car and a truck - while they may have been (and are) the best thing Ford has - do not make up the brand. 

There are more Ford mechanics in the US than mechanics from all the other brands combined. I’m pretty certain that’s FACT.


----------



## bykfixer

Star, you're my favorite pin. 

Today on the ride from work the #1 topic was not covid. I pondered why they started out with "watch out for possible showers this afternoon" and then they brought in their favorite weather guy who mentioned "well folks there is that outside chance of WIDESPREAD TORNADOES"…. I knew it. Story two was the rest home in my state that had 8 more fatalities since 9am. Total now there is 36 but "they haven't passed the one in Washington yet". In the meantime the head of health in my state says "we think there are over a million cases world wide but we cannot confirm that".…… what? Oh that's right you are still showing 11 deaths at the place that is up to 36...that was 11 some 3 weeks ago. I'm thinking "lady perhaps you should listen to the radio before you update your little covid death page". 

Yeah Scout, for flyover country it's kinda like hearing the sports scores each day until you hear "uncle in law Freds brother over in the next county died from the corona virus" 






'Merica 2020


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

wacbzz said:


> Chance - you’re the second person to mention 100,000+ mile Crown Vic’s in this thread. *I’m just here to remind you both* that one car and a truck - while they may have been (and are) the best thing Ford has - do not make up the brand.
> 
> There are more Ford mechanics in the US than mechanics from all the other brands combined. I’m pretty certain that’s FACT.



So happy you've found purpose in life.  Carry on.


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I've become somewhat aware of how often I touch my face. Lord only knows the actual number.  :eeew:



I hear you. It took a great effort for me to stop habitually smoothing my mustache. Now I use an alcohol treated comb when I feel the urge.
Like right now...:naughty:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Kestrel said:


> Along those same lines; my internship with Argonne National Labs 25 yrs ago, permits the US Dept of Energy to control discussion on this forum through my administrative powers here.



I've often wondered about your meteoric rise in power. Now I know the secret. Please remember, With much power comes much responsibility. :laughing: 

Thanks be to all the staff for keeping this forum so family friendly.


----------



## bykfixer

There are more Ford mechanics because they're easier to diagnose and fix. Why? Because it's the same issue ever since 1977.

Oh and then there's that little tid bit that there are more Fords running around out there but we'll over look that. My brother still drives my old '94 F-150 with 300k plus miles, and my '95 Ranger runs like new. The Mrs likes Escapes. We're on our third one after driving a Mercury minivan van for a while. 

I've owned one Chrysler product. Never again. A few GM's. Not anymore. Several Honda and Toyota products that last until the wheels fall off. But new vehicles in my driveway are always Fords. Well not new, I buy when they are two to three years old to be taxed a lot less. 

Nissan aint bad but they just don't appeal to me. Suburu, Kia, Hyundai? No thanks. Not bashing those, they again just don't appeal to me. 

Neither does covid-19


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Spoiler alert for the rest of the group: It's another "you can interpret the numbers to make the flu more deadly" _scientific-opinion_ piece.



When I was in graduate school running behavioral tests, one of our required texts was "How To Lie With Statistics". An essential primer on why to take a "jaundiced" look at testing design & methodology before accepting results as useful.


----------



## Kestrel

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I've often wondered about your meteoric rise in power. Now I know the secret. Please remember, With much power comes much responsibility. :laughing:


Yes I have been able to suppress forum discussion of their nefarious past behavior with regards to energy technology.

That's also why CPF also manages other flashlight forums behind the scenes, so as to continue the illusion of multiple independent sources of information.
"This flashlight is so good, that the Govt. has banned it." - if you recall seeing those online adverts about a year ago, that was a slip-up in our media control operation.
That leak has been plugged by operatives from our Ministry of Truth permanently, so all is good-to-go now.


----------



## bigburly912

Kestrel....... you’ve said too much. Protocol 911spanish1918 is now in place


----------



## knucklegary

Si, he escuchado suficiente (-;


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Got to get out of the house today. Quest labs are giving masks to those that don't have them during check in and are prescreening people before they go into the waiting room. My bank was giving away pens after each use so nobody touched the same pen. They also only let one customer in at a time, had people set down their I.d. and bank card, step back 6 feet, typed in the info. (no swiping card or punching in pin number), then had customer retrieve cards. There was no touching anything in the bank. In eye doctor's office, only those with an appointment were allowed to sit in the waiting room. No walkins were allowed to wait inside. At Circle K, no refill cups allowed and lids are now handed out by the cashier. There was also a cash only sign in place. It's weird that some people are afraid of cash as it could have the virus but many places are avoiding a.t.m.s or card readers because of how many people touch them. When this is over, it wouldn't surprise me if someone suggests a worldwide no contact cashless system. I hope not.


----------



## StarHalo

More quarantine buying: 

A GE fridge. 28 cu ft, 400 lbs. The entire interior rear wall is a single giant LED panel, you WILL be able to see in this refrigerator. 





More kicks; the second most comfortable shoe Nike's ever made, in a classic Galaxy colorway (not my photo 'cause you're just gonna bag on it):


----------



## knucklegary

Why you need such a humongous fridge, I see no food?


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> None of the Crown Vics were taken out of contention by mechanical failure.



I hope they donate Neighbor to science one day so we can all see what the secret to that car's longevity is..



Hooked on Fenix said:


> it wouldn't surprise me if someone suggests a worldwide no contact cashless system. I hope not.



Big fan of Apple Pay, I find it's physically faster than using a card anyway. 



knucklegary said:


> Why you need such a humongous fridge, I see no food?



Well if I had a dollar for every time someone asked me why mine's larger, I could fill that fridge; two adults and two teens is a good reason though.


----------



## RedLED

Star,

That's a nice refrigerator. In our Palm Springs, and Beverly Hills homes we have Sub Zero,s. NY, D.C. Not sure. Kind of reminds me of a Sub Zero.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Congrats, StarHalo. That fridge is awesome! :thumbsup: I'm always moving tall containers so as not to block the light.


----------



## RedLED

Being as everything is back-lit, will it not be hard to see things at night with the lights in the kitchen off, like in the middle of the night for a snack! OH,wait you have flashlights what was I thinking. Carry on.


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Congrats, StarHalo. That fridge is awesome! :thumbsup: I'm always moving tall containers so as not to block the light.



I'm glad to not have to replace the appliance bulb anymore at least..



RedLED said:


> That's a nice refrigerator. In our Palm Springs, and Beverly Hills homes we have Sub Zero,s. NY, D.C. Not sure. Kind of reminds me of a Sub Zero.
> 
> Being as everything is back-lit, will it not be hard to see things at night with the lights in the kitchen off, like in the middle of the night for a snack! OH,wait you have flashlights what was I thinking. Carry on.



Love those cabinet-matched pro installations, will have one of those one day. And this'll be hard to use at night, I imagine it'll be a bit like staring into a lamp with dark-adjusted eyes..


----------



## RedLED

Really, the SZ's are nice, but not as reliable as you may think. Yours is just as nice, and I wager, more reliable.


----------



## StarHalo

Somebody help Brit


----------



## RedLED

Brit Hume, HA! He tripped on my mono pod with a 300 2.8 with a Nikon F4, in front of President Clinton on the Trip of the President to Los Angeles, California in 1993. We were in the travel/ motorcade, protection pool together. 

I'm still laughing about it.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

There were 1,970 people in the U.S. who died in the last 24 hours from corona virus. That is a huge increase from yesterday. Looks like it's spreading more across the country, not just New York area. The governor of California said we're about a month and a half from the peak. Riverside county has made it illegal to go out in public without wearing a mask (one step closer to martial law). 51 people in South Korea have retested positive for corona virus a short time after being in quarantine. They say it's likely that the virus reactivated instead of them being reinfected once they left quarantine. What are we dealing with here? Is this virus coming back from the dead? Is this our first "zombie" virus outbreak?


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Brit Hume, HA! He tripped on my mono pod with a 300 2.8 with a Nikon F4, in front of President Clinton on the Trip of the President to Los Angeles, California in 1993. We were in the travel/ motorcade, protection pool together.



I can see tripping over a tripod, but a monopod? And that F4 is gonna hurt somebody whichever way it swings..



Hooked on Fenix said:


> not just New York area. The governor of California said we're about a month and a half from the peak.



Density is the killer:


----------



## RedLED

We are locked down in our desert home in Riverside county, and the Sheriff of Riverside County stated he will not institute a police state, and no one failing to wear a mask will be cited...period! Ref: The Desert Sun.


----------



## bigburly912

3 month old baby has it my neighboring town. Had to be medflighted out. The grandmother lives in the facility in my town that had the first outbreak in our county. We will soon have over 50 cases as the residents of that home are all living in cramped quarters. One elevator. Sad times


----------



## bykfixer

In the $old Dominion BB it's mainly long term care facilities dealing with it. Some of it has gotten out to the public at large, but it's fairly small numbers in general. Once a family knows they have it they quarentine. 

We're dealing more with the economic situation and some paranoia as all the "what if" scenarios have not played out and the public is getting restless. In the death clock talley we did move ahead of North Cackalaka in total cases yesterday. Good news for them since they had been a who's who of the virus early on. 

Folks talk about asymptomatic folks spreading it. Nothing new. In the old days when folks still worried about influenza we feared "the carrier" more than the sick. Sick were easy to spot. Pale skin, droopy eyes, you know…sick. But the carrier was the family member or friend who never showed symptoms but spread it all over the place. No one knows how many carriers were in a community at that time because it was just the way it was. They did not have technology to discover who the carriers were. Once this thing has run it's course the gubment will likely be investigating how many "carriers" there were (or still are). 

Who knows how many have had it, took a swig of Nyquil and recovered quickly. My uncle was deemed a carrier of HIV way back when. They studied his blood samples and determined he had been carrying it for some 15 years before he got sick. Once sick it was over for him. His body eventually forgot how to reproduce red blood cells. Terrible way to go. Body failing, mind working like normal for the better part of two years until one day his formerly 225 pound body that was about 77 pounds just quit. 

Back then the community that my uncle associated with all rallied together. Each had a story to tell, which helped scientists understand how HIV had spread early on. My uncle was deemed "case #115" and between his stories and his former collegues they were able to discover the source of HIV back to case #1. A high school friend of his stepped in and pulled the night shift during his last few months. My dad pulled the day shift. I filled in as necessary. We were all scared to death of this thing called AIDS. But through education that they knew in the early 90's we learned how to avoid actually catching it. Luckily for mankind HIV is a fragile virus. So spreading it was actually very difficult under normal conditions. I learned a lot about the common cold virus too. So when this covid thing hit the news I knew what questions to ask and discovered this virus is very durable. There lies the problem. That is why at Christmas my family jokingly stated that population on planet earth may be a lot differerent by July 4,2020. We just didn't see the run on toilet paper coming. 


So red, were you guys in a limo so big you could walk around or was it an airplane? Trying to get a visual as I picture your monopod leg barely sticking out in an aisle and old Brit just didn't lift his foot enough and snag the rubber shoe on the end? Did your rig go flying too? I always keep my gear wrist strapped to protect me from me but I suppose it would also help in that scenario. 
Did you lose your film? F4 were (are still) great cameras.

Listen out for 222 nm uvc "far lighting" to be discussed soon to sterilze restaraunt tables, subways and other ideas being tried at Columbia. Boeing uses in 737's now. A company in Massechusetts has been wands and light fixtures for 20 years for Disney and doctors offices and other places.


----------



## markr6

bykfixer said:


> Listen out for 222 nm uvc "far lighting" to be discussed soon to sterilze restaraunt tables, subways and other ideas being tried at Columbia. Boeing uses in 737's now. A company in Massechusetts has been wands and light fixtures for 20 years for Disney and doctors offices and other places.



I feel like we will be a "super clean" society as portrayed in the many cheesy scifi movies. Not a good thing IMO. Weak, scared of the common cold or touching someone else's hand in public.


----------



## bykfixer

Agreed. The after corona is my biggest fear if any.


----------



## bigburly912

bykfixer said:


> Agreed. The after corona is my biggest fear if any.



Agree 100%.


----------



## bigburly912

Alex berenson has called out the CDC for their covid19 related death counts. I saw somebody had mentioned poor ol Brit’s comment but he may be onto something. Of course his comment was something taken totally out of context but read the CDC guidelines for covid related deaths for yourself. Even if just assuming that’s what killed people it needs to be reported as a covid death.


----------



## markr6

Whew man!! This is a rough one.


----------



## knucklegary

Maybe sometime soon we'll have a ultraviolet germicidal irradiation app..


----------



## bykfixer

Hell, I'd pay 99 cents for it G. 
You?


----------



## RBR

StarHalo said:


> More quarantine buying:
> 
> A GE fridge...
> ...
> 
> More kicks...
> 
> ...



A Breitling Superocean Heritage II, Reference AB2020161C1A1.

Cheers RBR


----------



## RedLED

Fixer,

In the pool we can move about as we please, and we police ourselves.


----------



## StarHalo

This link will open an animation that shows you cases per country since the start of the year in high-speed; when it gets to about the start of March, watch the US enter the list and hold on tight.


----------



## bykfixer

Another day in the 2020 pandemic in the US and it feels strangely normal. Not the so-called new normal some are touting. Just normal in the sense where people around me have adapted. At my work as one deemed essential worker we were all walking around in a slight daze trying to understand why are we all in a daze. Everybody I talked to said something was off but they just couldn't put their finger on what that was. This week so far we all seemed to have shaken that daze. 

I figured out this morning it may have largely been like being in Japan near the end of WW2 and all the doom and gloom reporting was like the allies dropping leaflets across Japan warning of an incoming bombing campaign. Yeah, the bombs they dropped, and dropped, and dropped. But not on our little slice of the planet. Wounded are still die-ing, fall out is still making people sick, sure. But it's where the bombs dropped day after day for 3 weeks. Is the war over? Probably not. Actually far from it is more likely. But we're not scared anymore. 

The routines are becoming normal for now. No baseball, no Formula 1, no soccer. For now. There's talk of school again this fall, and football too. There's talk of things in the not so distant future. Many no longer feel guilty for wearing a dust mask now that the hospitals where the most bombs are still falling have a bunch. Same with latex gloves. The frozen pizza section in the grocery stores are still empty. Toilet paper too. But the trash pickup continues like normal and the morning paper is still being delivered. 

Looking at the numbers this morning there are positive trends all across the spectrum. Yet for whatever reason yesterday was a bad day all over the world. Spain, Italy, US, Germany, you name it. New cases spiked. Just like the models predicted. The blitzkrieg called covid-19 had a great day yesterday. But many of us feel a lot more at ease knowing it's days of winning are near the end. It isn't time to become complacent, nor a time to panic. It's a time to keep washing your hands, stay as far away from strangers as practical and keep enjoying this life on planet earth.


----------



## Stu

Good post, bykfixer.


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks Stu. 

Thought of red yesterday when I saw the guy on the right attach a tiny camera to the hubble telescope lens. 
Then look at the guy in the back. 





Is the guy on the right taking close ups of ants crawling up the wall or something?


----------



## bigburly912

Wow hahaha


----------



## markr6

HAHA! He's definitely guilty of the "...now I need to go buy a camera for my lens"


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

The other photographers call him Hubble.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

On a different note -


----------



## Fish 14

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archive...7WuH6fm5PHBHd0w6u0GN4Dk7Rea7H77JCN12Cz6q0G2c0

Don't know how true it is, but I'm learning towards it more so than against.


----------



## jrgold

i hate the term new normal. I believe the virus is a threat to be taken seriously, but we also have to be careful how much power we give away. What we give to the governments of the world likely won’t be given back. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Fish 14

jrgold said:


> i hate the term new normal. I believe the virus is a threat to be taken seriously, but we also have to be careful how much power we give away. What we give to the governments of the world likely won’t be given back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Exactly, government is a power hungry out of control entity.


----------



## RBR

Melitta just started face mask production over here. Unknown if Classic, Gourmet Intense...types will be available.


----------



## StarHalo

RBR said:


> Melitta just started face mask production over here. Unknown if Classic, Gourmet Intense...types will be available.



Unbleached with micro-perforations to let the flavor through, mm..


----------



## Poppy

My brother's daughter (my niece) is an ER nurse in a big hospital in Central NJ. Her experience in taking patient histories, and speaking with the doctors, has them thinking that this virus is air borne. That is frightening. My brother has had 80 hours of bio-hazmat training and has spent 200 hours in hazmat gear, made these recommendations to us as family members.

Stay home
If you do go out, dress in layers, with the outermost layer a rain suit.
Take your outer layer off, outside.
Wear a mask
Wear a face shield, or at least glasses. or goggles.
Don't bring your shoes into the house.

When you come inside, take your daily shower.

Don't go food shopping, but rather have it delivered, other than to go to a farmer's market.
Leave food outside the house for a few days, and or disinfect it before you bring it into the house.

Certainly... all good advice.

All the while we have been told that the way the virus spreads is by direct contact.
Secondarily, by "fomites" (A fomite or fomes is any inanimate object that, when contaminated with or exposed to infectious agents, can transfer disease to a new host)

More than one expert has said the virus can not get through your skin, but if it is on your skin, and you touch your face (actually mucus membranes of your nose, mouth, or eyes) then you can get infected.

Therefore if one is careful about not touching his face, and frequently washes is hands, he she should not get infected, (unless he gets sneezed or coughed on).

Then there was a study that stated a cough or sneeze may expel moisture particles 21 feet. The results were minimized.
Yesterday, was the first time that I heard an expert epidemiologist mention that there are three ways to transmit this disease.
1. direct contact
2. fomites.
3. coughing or sneezing where larger droplets fall out of the air quickly, within a few feet, but smaller droplets, even vapor may remain in the air (like a cloud) for a few hours. Have you ever seen your breath during the winter? Or see spittle come from someone's mouth while excitedly talking?

Is it airborne, and they are not telling us? I wouldn't be surprised.

Keep your distance, stay safe.


----------



## Poppy

RBR said:


> Melitta just started face mask production over here. Unknown if Classic, Gourmet Intense...types will be available.


That's interesting.
Just yesterday I held one to my face to see how difficult it would be to breath through one.

I forget the numbers, but virus particles are smaller than typical pore size of paper coffee filters. Still the pore size of coffee filters is much smaller than any cotton cloth.


----------



## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> I forget the numbers, but virus particles are smaller than typical pore size of paper coffee filters. Still the pore size of coffee filters is much smaller than any cotton cloth.



Scale-wise, if a singular coronavirus is the size of a person, a red blood cell is the size of a sports stadium; the mask is just there to catch moisture droplets coming out of you so that those can't transmit anything.


----------



## Poppy

StarHalo said:


> Scale-wise, if a singular coronavirus is the size of a person, a red blood cell is the size of a sports stadium; the mask is just there to catch moisture droplets coming out of you so that those can't transmit anything.


Why don't you say what you are trying to say? 
"a red blood cell is the size of a sports stadium" , you know: "Ice Cream has no bones" and "neither has anything to do with the cost of butter!"

Coffee filters are designed to allow Water to Flow Through them. Certainly moisture, or vapor can easily pass.

The point I was trying to make, is that they will not stop the flow of virus in either direction, but the smaller pores of coffee filters will be better at stopping anything than a piece of cloth.

Don't interpret my statement above to think I want to discredit the use of any kind of mask. Anything is better than nothing in trying to reduce the velocity, distance and amount of virus that may be spread with a cough, sneeze, or simply breathing.


----------



## Poppy

Here are the numbers I didn't memorize.




> The COVID-19 virus is approximately 0.125 Micron or 125 nanometers in diameter. (





> Source: National Library of Medicine)





> However, it often travels in biological aerosols from coughing and sneezing which range in size from 0.5-3 Micron.





> *HEPA stands for High Efficiency Particulate Air and is a filtration rating that captures microbes, dust, and particulates down to 0.3 Micron.*





> while coffee filters are designed to filter coffee, but with a typical pore size of 20 microns (or micrometers), they are not a particularly good filter in general.



If you do the math, the pores of the typical coffee filter are 160 times as large as a corona 19 virus.


----------



## knucklegary

+1 ^^ 
Shopping today i saw a young pregnant mother wearing a nice washable mask, face shield, rubber gloves, and hoodie.. 

Like you said Poppy, the gal was well protected from Covid droplets flying from an instant sneeze, or from lingering airbore micro spit for hours afterwards


----------



## bigburly912

This thread makes me want to get back into weightlifting. I don’t know how the arthritic spine and exploded elbow would handle any type of power lifting but just moving weight would be nice and very therapeutic.


----------



## bykfixer

Are you sure she wasn't there to rob the place KG? 

I considered cutting up one of my home hepa filters at one point. 

Joggers and folks performing things that make them breath harder should stay farther apart than 6 feet. 

I had to keep reminding my young trainee to stay away. One of those youngsters used to automatic everything and phone apps to start the microwave. No concept of this whole notion that life is entirely different right now, for everybody including him. I asked him if his girlfriend has to remind him to lift the toilet seat or does he have an app for that too? I told him tomorrow I will bring a doggy shock collar and zap his dum*** everytime he gets within 10 feet of me. Hated to be that guy, ……well actually I really kinda enjoyed it. lol

Isometrics are your friend right now burley.


----------



## coffeecup66

/.../

On the subject of scale : SotU2


PS : Thanks for the Queen Monsieur Gardiner, never fails !!!




Edit : Link reformed, sorry for that. Hope this works better.

Cheers.

Edit 2 : You're most welcome. Good catch btw, I'm impressed. I oversaw that one completely.


----------



## archimedes

coffeecup66 said:


> /.../
> 
> On the subject of scale : SotU link removed
> 
> PS : Thanks for the Queen Monsieur Gardiner, never fails !!!



Hi @coffeecup66 ... your link goes directly to a "shockwave flash" file, which is a deprecated (and non-secure) format.

Would you mind editing out the direct link ?

EDIT - thank you


----------



## knucklegary

bigburly912 said:


> This thread makes me want to get back into weightlifting. I don’t know how the arthritic spine and exploded elbow would handle any type of power lifting but just moving weight would be nice and very therapeutic.



Start out light with basics, bench, squat, dead, and stay away from assists.. Don't over rep.. Your body will tell you when it's time to either go heavier, or take it easy on the joints

Weight lifting is good for bone density. Keeps us old guys standing upright!

..and if some SoCal pin head zombie jumps on my back, I feel good knowing I can body slam the guy (-;

Yoga, isometrics is good too, keeps those muscles stretched and joints lubed


----------



## P_A_S_1

knucklegary said:


> Yoga, isometrics is good too, keeps those muscles stretched and joints lubed



Be careful with yoga, it's easy to overdo it. I did yoga for a year and started having some issues/ injuries. Don't do it anymore. Go very light and don't push it if you do. 



bigburly912 said:


> This thread makes me want to get back into weightlifting. I don’t know how the arthritic spine and exploded elbow would handle any type of power lifting but just moving weight would be nice and very therapeutic.



I've had better luck with calisthenics and exercise bands then weights. Good results with less injury. Those bands are very versatile, safe, and cheap.


----------



## bigburly912

I did power yoga for a year. Couldn’t do any of that now


----------



## RBR

Poppy said:


> Here are the numbers I didn't memorize.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you do the math, the pores of the typical coffee filter are 160 times as large as a corona 19 virus.



It´s just the shape that stays the same, the fleece/tissue they use for those masks fits FFP3 standards, not Gourmet Intense...:naughty:


----------



## Poppy

RBR said:


> It´s just the shape that stays the same, the fleece/tissue they use for those masks fits FFP3 standards, not Gourmet Intense...:naughty:


That's great!

It really is wonderful to see so many manufacturers jumping in, retooling, to make things that are necessary, that they never made before.

I hope our country never looses sight of that.


----------



## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Are you sure she wasn't there to rob the place KG?
> 
> I considered cutting up one of my home hepa filters at one point.
> 
> Joggers and folks performing things that make them breath harder should stay farther apart than 6 feet.
> 
> I had to keep reminding my young trainee to stay away. One of those youngsters used to automatic everything and phone apps to start the microwave. No concept of this whole notion that life is entirely different right now, for everybody including him. I asked him if his girlfriend has to remind him to lift the toilet seat or does he have an app for that too? _*I told him tomorrow I will bring a doggy shock collar and zap his dum*** everytime he gets within 10 feet of me. Hated to be that guy, ……well actually I really kinda enjoyed it. lol*_
> 
> Isometrics are your friend right now burley.


emphasis mine.
Hey fixer... THANKS for the laugh! 

Oh man... I am still laughing. I'd LOVE to see that :thumbsup:


----------



## bykfixer

Things are crazy at my work Poppy. I'm part mother hen, part rooster. All while juggling a 20 pound bowling ball, a double edge sword and a chain saw during a game of 1 legged hop scotch. My patience got a little tested by my young prodige.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Poppy said:


> ..... If you do the math, the pores of the typical coffee filter are 160 times as large as a corona 19 virus.



I don't want to do the math. Just give it to me in  person, red blood cell, and sports stadium.


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> I don't want to do the math. Just give it to me in  person, red blood cell, and sports stadium.



0:16 brings us to "influenza", which is a coronavirus:


----------



## coffeecup66

StarHalo said:


> Scale-wise, *if a singular coronavirus is the size of a person, a red blood cell is the size of a sports stadium*; ...




Your linked video suggests the red blood cell is 80 times greater the size of the "Influenza" virus.

That's a sports stadium the size of 80 humans... 

My question : where do I park my car ?


----------



## StarHalo

coffeecup66 said:


> Your linked video suggests the red blood cell is 80 times greater the size of the "Influenza" virus.



The diameter is 80 times greater, not area, so perhaps a gymnasium; still small enough to fit through the pores on many plastics, but again the purpose of a mask is to catch outgoing moisture.

I don't know where the French park their cars, I'll let some of these friendly truck-driving fellows answer that one..


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

San Diego county in California changed their law banning groups of 10 and over to include any group under 10 people (with the exception of those living with you). I guess freedom of assembly is suspended until further notice. I understand the reason why(people are dying), but I didn't think it was legal to suspend constitutional rights short of declaring martial law. Is that where we're at now? I really hope this isn't the new normal.


----------



## StarHalo

Hooked on Fenix said:


> San Diego county in California changed their law banning groups of 10 and over to include any group under 10 people (with the exception of those living with you). I guess freedom of assembly is suspended until further notice. I understand the reason why(people are dying), but I didn't think it was legal to suspend constitutional rights short of declaring martial law. Is that where we're at now? I really hope this isn't the new normal.



Today's the first day California has had a decrease in ICU patients; you might want to check the statistics on those states that don't feel like "suspending rights"..


----------



## Johnnyh

Hooked on Fenix said:


> San Diego county in California changed their law banning groups of 10 and over to include any group under 10 people (with the exception of those living with you). I guess freedom of assembly is suspended until further notice. I understand the reason why(people are dying), but I didn't think it was legal to suspend constitutional rights short of declaring martial law. Is that where we're at now? I really hope this isn't the new normal.



I too worry about the apparent “suspension” of the Constitution. It was way too easy to convince us that it’s OK to do so. I’m isolating because it’s just common sense, not because Big Brother has ordered it. I’m 66 years old so I don’t want this virus...they didn’t have to strip away my Constitutional rights to get my attention. But that’s just me.


----------



## ven

If malkoff made a mask..........








Stay safe


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Johnnyh said:


> I too worry about the apparent “suspension” of the Constitution. It was way too easy to convince us that it’s OK to do so. I’m isolating because it’s just common sense, not because Big Brother has ordered it. I’m 66 years old so I don’t want this virus...they didn’t have to strip away my Constitutional rights to get my attention. But that’s just me.


 
Johnnyh, I also don't want you to get the virus. However, if you do, would you mind terribly if I contacted your widow about acquiring some of your stuff?


----------



## Johnnyh

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Johnnyh, I also don't want you to get the virus. However, if you do, would you mind terribly if I contacted your widow about acquiring some of your stuff?



LOL! Chance, you are a hoot! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

You laughed. My work here is finished. Good night guys. Stay safe and stay well.


----------



## Johnnyh

Thanks for that. Staying safe, staying well and still laughing...


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

StarHalo said:


> Today's the first day California has had a decrease in ICU patients; you might want to check the statistics on those states that don't feel like "suspending rights"..



They also said today that restrictions would not be lifted until we have at least 28 days with no new cases. Under this new order, wouldn't bringing food or medications to a disabled family friend be considered as a gathering? If this is enforced to the letter of the law, I can see it doing more harm than good. I see the need to limit the spread, but to suspend our rights to this degree is just inviting stupid people to defy it. If you try to legislate stupidity away, you won't have any rights left. Remember, you can't fix stupid.


----------



## bykfixer

Covid-19 should be a lesson in social studies, civics, government and history for nearly every person on the planet. 

But it probably won't be. 


My boss says George Soros paid a lab to design a virus that will kill just enough people to scare everybody else. My brother says build walls around each state and check peoples papers entering and exiting. A friend says it's 5g morphed the common cold virus into covid-19. Some are taking pictures of small crowds and sending them to news channels. Some fear any germs so they are really freaking out right now. Some say covid-19 is racist. Others think the whole thing is a giant hoax. 

Time will reveal what really happened. I see it as a virus that is brand new, has more durability than usual, causes the body's immune system to over react in some and is going to change the way we think for a long long time. Right now when you do happen upon a stranger you probably don't break the ice by talking about the weather. Hopefully a lot of good will happen, like perhaps during next years flu season folks will spread it less, or hospitals will keep better stocked up on supplies, Americans will appreciate their barber more and running errands won't seem like such a chore anymore.


----------



## Poppy

bykfixer,
Well put. :thumbsup:


----------



## ven

I think what is important , that pharmacies , docs, health services , companies, continue to stock up. Especially with ventilators , masks, gloves and face shields. If this comes back(predicted to) in winter, then we have no excuse to not be more prepared. 

Scientists are finding out(not actually surprising given how fast and easy it appears to spread) that it stays air born longer than first thought. Potentially minutes in the air. So someone could sneeze or cough in a food isle. Leave the isle! Then you wander down and potentially breath in the virus. 

So as much protection as reasonably possible would be a good move, if and when leaving the house. Every time we leave, be it work, fuel, food we are at more risk. We find out little snip bits here and there, each week a little more found out. It would be very frustrating if we found a simple measure would have protected us months back. If it is more airborn than first thought, face shields as well as specific masks would have helped hugely early on. 

I still think if we in the UK would have locked down in January and listened to the warnings. We would have saved a lot of lives. Italy weeks back told us to full lock down, it’s still not happened . It’s just a part lock down. 

stay safe


----------



## Poppy

Hooked on Fenix said:


> San Diego county in California changed their law banning groups of 10 and over to include any group under 10 people (with the exception of those living with you). *I guess freedom of assembly is suspended until further notice.* I understand the reason why(people are dying), but I didn't think it was legal to suspend constitutional rights short of declaring martial law. Is that where we're at now? I really hope this isn't the new normal.


Earlier, the Governor of Connecticut, ordered that people traveling out of NYC were to be quarantined for 2 weeks. It was falsely reported that state troopers were going door to door to locate New Yorkers, and to enforce quarantine. And that they were at the borders, turning around cars with NY plates, not allowing them to enter.

His order, whatever it was, was reversed within 24 hours.

When I heard it, my thought was that it was unconstitutional (we have a constitutional right to freedom of movement). My nephew cited three times that certain constitutional rights were suspended, the only one I remember was when President Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus. 

I reasoned that even if it was unconstitutional to limit movement, by time a lawsuit worked its way through the courts the pandemic would have run its course.

I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread. The Government only has the power that we as a populace grant them. 

Personally, I won't be too concerned during a time like this, unless they come for our guns.


----------



## Poppy

ven,
That is an awesome looking mask!

It looks like the bridge of the nose is a bit wide, and gets into your field of view, but that the filter area is large enough that it may allow air to get through without too much effort.

Here is a picture of one of mine.
Inhaling takes a little effort, not too much, but enough to raise a little anxiety for me. 







Yesterday I wrote about my brother stating that some of the doctors in the hospital that his daughter works in, and an expert epidemiologist, thought it was air borne. I wonder how long the "powers that be" were aware of that, and decided to withhold that info from us. I suppose that if they released that information to the general public, there would be panic, and there would be NO N95 filters for the medical profession.

Certainly there will be arguments of pros vs cons of what was done, and what should have been done.


----------



## Poppy

Hooked on Fenix said:


> San Diego county in California changed their law banning groups of 10 and over to include any group under 10 people (with the exception of those living with you). I guess freedom of assembly is suspended until further notice. I understand the reason why(people are dying), but I didn't think it was legal to suspend constitutional rights short of declaring martial law. Is that where we're at now? I really hope this isn't the new normal.


Freedom of assembly has been restricted for many years. Not to the extent as we are seeing here, but certain size groups, LARGE groups, must have a PERMIT to assemble. I believe that is for traffic control, and the safety of the general public.


----------



## scout24

Easy on the politics, folks...


----------



## ven

Yes spot on poppy, I took the pic before crushing the nose part in. Many are not aware, even the cheap masks have a wife of kind in the bridge. To form and creat a seal around the nose. 

That mask is not comfy, it’s a tight fit and feels like it’s crushing your face in!!! Not the best for hours on end wearing.


----------



## bykfixer

To hear San Diego declare folks gathering who aren't kin is illegal should be no surprise to anybody there. Hopefully it will spook enough folks there to see a giant "ENOUGH" by the citizenry there. 

In my area the talk is about jobs being lost. One trend I see is businesses restructuring are using covid-19 as an excuse to slash costs. My company for example is a bloated mess. They just slashed the roster of a bunch of dead weight. Conservative radio host Glenn Beck called that one back in February.

Meanwhile pollen has lots of folks looking like covid carriers……


----------



## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> Personally, I won't be too concerned during a time like this, unless they come for our guns.



Only one president in modern history has discussed suspending due process to take people’s guns.


----------



## Poppy

ven said:


> Yes spot on poppy, I took the pic before crushing the nose part in. Many are not aware, even the cheap masks have a wife of kind in the bridge. To form and creat a seal around the nose.
> 
> That mask is not comfy, it’s a tight fit and feels like it’s crushing your face in!!! Not the best for hours on end wearing.



Yes ven, I sympathize. Wearing hours on end would not be fun at all.

I am fortunate that I am required to, and be able to stay at home. In fact the government is willing to pay me to do so. :thumbsup: 
I am also fortunate that my house is large enough that we are not all crawling all over each other, and that we have a washer and dryer. On nice weather days, we can sit in the yard or front porch, in the sun, listening to music. 

I Thank God, that I and my family, are not stuck in small, over crowded apartment. I really feel badly for those people.

I wish you all, and your families, the best.


----------



## ven

Good stuff poppy, glad your all safe and well in this difficult time. It’s important and glad your seeing the positives . After this 12hr stint I will be enjoying some chill time. Netflix, food to wind down later (about 4hrs off). Catch up with family, open my amazon packages  Nothing exciting , but I seem to be on a jet lighter thing! 
Very important to see positives , dwelling on negatives can soon get you down. So I try and set little things to look forward to or do. 
Then weekend will be bits of gardening , maybe car wash and eating chocolate! Back in work Easter Monday for a few jobs. 

Thank you for kind words, you all to stay safe and enjoy family time. There are no rules against camping out back in the garden . After all, once it’s dark you could be anywhere. Toasted marshmallows and a low output incand light will take you back to being a kid. 

Cheers


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

ven said:


> If malkoff made a mask..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stay safe



I'm waiting for ven to tell me he's Luke's father.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

I know most of us are bored sitting at home, but that is no excuse to get out of the house and do something stupid like teaching your dog how to drive your car at 100 mph trying to outrun the cops: https://foxnews.com/auto/washington-dog-drive-police-wrecks


----------



## ven

[email protected]


----------



## terjee

There was a bit of discussion about using coffee filters, filter diameter etc, and I just wanted to quickly comment...

0.3 micrometer is just about that hardest to filter. Corona virus is smaller than that, and actually easier to filter, which is good news. Put in practical terms, a filter size of 0.5 might still be 80% effective at 0.3, yet 95-99% effective at 0.125, about where Corona is. This is very good for us, since the net effect is that a less than ideal filter used out of spec is likely to outperform expectations, and be at least a step up from nothing.

What you’d ideally want isn’t an N95 mask, but go all the way up to FFP3. Even if you could buy that, most of us shouldn’t, at least not now. Leave it for the health care workers that are sure to come in contact with infected patients. In part because there’s more good news:

There’a very little evidence of the virus - alone - being airborne. It certainly is in mucus aerosols, but those are way easier to trap than the virus itself. Larger particles that’ll fairly easily get stopped or stuck by a filter. Even a 4 ply home made mask from T-shirt textiles will provide some protection against casual exposure if you jog behind a spreader that sneezes.

If you want to DIY a mask, it’s still fairly easy to step up from tshirts or coffee filters. HEPA filters intended for air purifiers or vacuums are good candidates here, even if you buy a filter for an air purifier or vacuum you don’t have, just to get the filter. If those are not available, the fabric from the vacuum bag itself will do. I’d take those above a coffee filter, but if I had nothing better, a coffee filter between right woven textiles will do as well.

For any kind of DIY-solution, I don’t think the choices in filter material is even the most significant factor, but rather that you get it tight enough to not just drag in unfiltered air around the mask itself. If you’re high risk and worried, use masking tape around the mask, to get it tight to your skin. Masking tape can also be used to hold the straps of a DIY or normal mask, to avoid touching your face to adjust.

Mask aside, I think other lapses are probably just as easy to make. If you’re high risk and worried, follow the layered approach and gradual undressing on your way in, treat those closed as a risk, and go straight for a shower, including soap-based face wash.

Some of the things here I haven’t seen mentioned previously, sorry if I’ve missed it. Just wanted to mention quickly, in case it might be relevant for any of you.

Disclaimer; I’m not a professional in PPE. Most of what is mentioned here is based on reading up on studies from 3M and others, mixed with a little bit of common sense.

Oh, and: if you have a multi-use dust-mask, perhaps with P3 filters, those should be completely awesome for this. Multi use should be fine, just be mindful to disinfect the non-filter parts. The filter should hold any captured viruses pretty well, and multi use should be fine. Still be mindful of where you place it (an open bag to contain viruses, but let moisture escape).


----------



## ven

Unfortunately scientists are finding out it is more airborn than first thought. They have found it can possibly linger for several minutes! That will also help towards explaining why so many seem to be catching it. I am sure as the days/weeks go on, we will find out more.


----------



## terjee

ven said:


> Unfortunately scientists are finding out it is more airborn than first thought. They have found it can possibly linger for several minutes! That will also help towards explaining why so many seem to be catching it. I am sure as the days/weeks go on, we will find out more.



I’ve seen no indication of it being truly airborne, outside of aerosol. Even so, that still means you can probably sneeze it 4-5 meters, have it linger for half an hour, then land on something where it can live for days, maybe a week.

I think it’s easy to underestimate this.


----------



## idleprocess

terjee said:


> There’a very little evidence of the virus - alone - being airborne. It certainly is in mucus aerosols, but those are way easier to trap than the virus itself. Larger particles that’ll fairly easily get stopped or stuck by a filter. Even a 4 ply home made mask from T-shirt textiles will provide some protection against casual exposure if you jog behind a spreader that sneezes.
> 
> If you want to DIY a mask, it’s still fairly easy to step up from tshirts or coffee filters. HEPA filters intended for air purifiers or vacuums are good candidates here, even if you buy a filter for an air purifier or vacuum you don’t have, just to get the filter. If those are not available, the fabric from the vacuum bag itself will do. I’d take those above a coffee filter, but if I had nothing better, a coffee filter between right woven textiles will do as well.
> 
> For any kind of DIY-solution, I don’t think the choices in filter material is even the most significant factor, but rather that you get it tight enough to not just drag in unfiltered air around the mask itself. If you’re high risk and worried, use masking tape around the mask, to get it tight to your skin. Masking tape can also be used to hold the straps of a DIY or normal mask, to avoid touching your face to adjust.



I've heard that two layers of blue shop towels slipped into an ordinary cotton homemade mask are nearly as effective as a N95 mask - and probably more than sufficient for casual use.

I've pondered cutting up some HEPA filter bags for a vacuum cleaner, but I gather those can have some nasty contents such as fiberglass and other chemicals you'd rather not be breathing.


----------



## bykfixer

Under the right conditions it can be airborne. But when it is attached to expulsions from humans it lives a lot easier. Once outside of those "ideal" conditions be it temperature range and humidity it doesn't not survive long at all. 

Example, infected person expells drops from a cough onto a frozen surface it dies instantly. Same if you did it on a metal surface in bright sunlight. Trouble is they have not defined the outter edges of ideal conditions. They do know it survives at conditions beyond the limits of the ordinary flu or rhino viruses in terms of temperature and humidity.


----------



## knucklegary

Thought I heard early on this virus does not like heat. So lets hope hot Summer months will slow it down, and pray shorty after a vaccination to lessen the next outbreak


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

The virus has made it's way into some food processing plants. It was only a matter of time. :candle:
https://hotair.com/archives/karen-t...rocessing-plant-becomes-covid-19-hotspot-now/


----------



## wacbzz

knucklegary said:


> Thought I heard early on this virus does not like heat. So lets hope hot Summer months will slow it down, and pray shorty after a vaccination to lessen the next outbreak



Not going into the hoping and praying thing or anything political; that’s what the UG is for. 

Here, however is a study that was published April 7 about “heat and humidity” as a stopper of COVID-19...

https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25771/r...nality-for-the-covid-19-pandemic-april-7-2020


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

wacbzz said:


> *Not going into the hoping and praying thing or anything political; that’s what the UG is for. *
> 
> Here, however is a study that was published April 7 about “heat and humidity” as a stopper of COVID-19...
> 
> https://www.nap.edu/catalog/25771/r...nality-for-the-covid-19-pandemic-april-7-2020



Perhaps you could just move on sans comment when someone writes about hope and prayer.


----------



## Poppy

Interesting read. Thanks

BTW, what does UG stand for?


----------



## bykfixer

It's ugh without the H which was silent so it was dropped due to budget cuts.


----------



## wacbzz

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Perhaps you could just move on sans comment when someone writes about hope and prayer.



Or, more encompassing of the rules, we could just leave political and religious talk out of the responses. :shrug:


----------



## wacbzz

Poppy said:


> Interesting read. Thanks
> 
> BTW, what does UG stand for?



The Underground. It’s like the Vegas of CPF. The link is at the top of every page on CPF.




bykfixer said:


> It's ugh without the H which was silent so it was dropped due to budget cuts.


----------



## bigburly912

I don’t trust anything that has been put out on this virus. When the CDC has it in their guidelines to report deaths “based on a hunch that the patient has Coronavirus” I stop trusting anything they say about it. Keep yourself clean to keep others safe. That’s about all you can do with this mess.


----------



## knucklegary

I don't know about you guys,, but I'm dying for some Chinese food!


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Los Angeles just extended the stay at home order until May 15. This doesn't look like this is going to end anytime soon. Stock up. This is going to take awhile.


----------



## Poppy

KGary,
I know that you meant to be funny, and it made me chuckle.

My mom cooked every night, typically meat and potatoes meals. Meals for 7 people. Occasionally, she'd get an easy night and we'd get sliced roast beef from the corner deli, and make hot roast beef sandwiches with gravy. Rarely she'd make Chinese food from a can.

I couldn't recall the name so I had to google it.

La Choy Chow mein!

It really was slop in a can that she would pour over rice. We'd top it with Chow Mein noodles and soy sauce. (so as not to slam the company, that was back in the 1960's and the product on the current label looks better than the stuff I ate.)

As far as I knew... *that* was Chinese food. Period. I must have been in high school before I found out Chinese food also included, chicken fried rice, beef and broccoli, General Tso's chicken, chicken and Chinese vegetables in peanut sauce.

While googling La Choy, I was presented with ...
A list of American-Chinese foods that you won't actually find in China


----------



## RedLED

I went to In N Out yesterday afternoon, and there were 35-40 cars in line. Wait was 20 minutes but it didn't matter because there is nothing to do anyway. I got several cheeseburgers all the flavors of the milk shakes and a ton of fries. Finally finished everything by 0300.

That sounds bad, but I get my physical fitness by carrying a big lens like fixer posted a few days back.


----------



## turbodog

For those with spare time on your hands, hahaha, that want a good read, go grab a copy of 'guns, germs, and steel'. Just so happens that I finished the book about a month ago by pure random luck.

TLDR version: Pandemics are the norm, not the exception. Nasty bugs jump species all the time.

Excellent book by the way.


----------



## turbodog

I'm not fanning the flames of paranoia I hope, but I am concerned when this thing starts impacting the mfg/supply chain for day to day goods (walmart, kroger type stuff). 

Would be really good for some randomized testing to take place. Could see just how many recovered and asymptomatic people are out there.


----------



## knucklegary

^ "Hope" is verboten


----------



## Greta

"Hope and prayer" ---- Some people believe and have faith in one, the other, or both. And some... neither. In general, none are right or wrong. In general, that's what makes us -ALL- unique and special. It's just the way it is. While proselytizing and political discussions are generally discouraged within the CPF forums, using words like "hope and prayer" are not... never have been. If you find that you are offended by such words used in a general way without the promotion of any kind of agenda or any kind of proselytization, please find the door and firmly shut it behind you on your way out. One thing I will -NOT- tolerate within these forums... and especially in such a trying time for -EVERYONE- here... is bigotry. Keep it to yourself. To put it simply... shut up. 

This thread is being very closely followed and monitored by the administrators and moderators of this forum. We don't want to close this thread. It is providing useful information as well as a place where we can find a connection with others in a time when connecting is a challenge. And isolation has taken on a whole new meaning. As a promise, not a warning, anyone trying to deliberately shut down this thread with bigoted posts and intolerance will be removed from the forums... permanently. Honestly, there is no room for any of that in this world right now... much less in these forums... where most come for camaraderie, comfort, and no judgement. 

Stay safe and stay healthy, my friends :grouphug:


----------



## Poppy

turbodog said:


> Would be really good for some randomized testing to take place. Could see just how many recovered and asymptomatic people are out there.


Its coming.
I think they are about to release the 15 minute instant read test in the middle of next week if it isn't already out.
Then each week production of the test will increase.

As more and more people are released from the hospitals, and more and more people have recovered on their own at home, the serum anti-body test (which is already in limited use) will be more and more helpful in replacing sick people with those who (presumably) can't get sick.

We're still in for quit a ride.

Keep your chin up, and your distance.

EDIT:
Today's news:
[FONT=&quot]TRENTON, NJ[/FONT][FONT=&quot]-- Governor Phil Murphy today announced the acquisition of 15 point-of-care ID NOW testing instruments from the federal government to expand access to COVID-19 testing in New Jersey. The portable, rapid testing machines will be dispersed to health care systems throughout the state, will be able to test for COVID-19 and process specimens in approximately 5-13 minutes.[/FONT]


----------



## Poppy

Greta said:


> "Hope and prayer" ---- Some people believe and have faith in one, the other, or both. And some... neither. In general, none are right or wrong. In general, that's what makes us -ALL- unique and special. It's just the way it is. While proselytizing and political discussions are generally discouraged within the CPF forums, using words like "hope and prayer" are not... never have been. If you find that you are offended by such words used in a general way without the promotion of any kind of agenda or any kind of proselytization, please find the door and firmly shut it behind you on your way out. One thing I will -NOT- tolerate within these forums... and especially in such a trying time for -EVERYONE- here... is bigotry. Keep it to yourself. To put it simply... shut up.
> 
> This thread is being very closely followed and monitored by the administrators and moderators of this forum. We don't want to close this thread. It is providing useful information as well as a place where we can find a connection with others in a time when connecting is a challenge. And isolation has taken on a whole new meaning. As a promise, not a warning, anyone trying to deliberately shut down this thread with bigoted posts and intolerance will be removed from the forums... permanently. Honestly, there is no room for any of that in this world right now... much less in these forums... where most come for camaraderie, comfort, and no judgement.
> 
> Stay safe and stay healthy, my friends :grouphug:


Greta,
Beautifully written!
:twothumbsup:

I hope that you and yours stay safe and well!
Poppy


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks Greta. Very uplifting. 

So the term "herd immunity" is being tossed around more and more. Perhaps that is how some in industries with lots of contact like restaraunts and hotels can resume. But what I mean is there are folks wondering why out breaks have not been huge in California like they were in New York. Lots of folks visited California from China early on. Some speculate there were a bunch of people who had it and did not know it back in January, recovered and are now immune. There were stories in parts of Cali and New York of folks getting flu like symptoms but doctors could not find influenza in them. Mainly construction workers it seems. 

Today a guy called into a radio show I was listening to who said he and about 200 others on a construction site in down town New York got sick between Thanksgiving and New Years. Every one of them he said. And doctors were baffled. So they sent them home told to take Tylenol and drink lots of fluids. Dude said "you know us construction workers drank plenty of fluids alright. Beer and booze and just toughed it out." "We work to make money so some flu don't slow us down". His reason for calling was to say he believed he had covid-19 back in the beginning when nobody knew it even existed except for a cluster of sick people in China who did not yet know what it was either. 

This whole antibody test thing they speak should shed light on that. I mean we all know somebody who never ever ever gets sick while folks all around drop like flies. You moms know what I mean. There's just something there that thwarts off bugs while us dads lay around watching football with thermometers poking out our mouth while laying under a blankee. 
"I'm sooooooo siiiiick honey, can you bring me some Doritos". lol

We'll see soon enough.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> I went to In N Out yesterday afternoon



Same here, wife made me go a couple nights ago, that was about a half hour I’m not getting back. And the weather’s not even nice enough to walk around with the Bigma..



knucklegary said:


> ^ "Hope" is verboten



Hope and change!



Greta said:


> anyone trying to deliberately shut down this thread with bigoted posts and intolerance will be removed from the forums



The real Americans pull together in hard times; our forebears had the Depression breadline, the War rationing, and now we have this. I'm typing this at work while wearing a mask and gloves because I'm asking what I can do for my country, I am grateful for those who can join me, and am here to help those who can't. Thank you to those overseeing all of this, we may have our differences but it's all our history in the end, let's work together..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> ...... I'm typing this at work while wearing a mask and gloves because I'm asking what I can do for my country, I am grateful for those who can join me, and am here to help those who can't. Thank you to those overseeing all of this, we may have our differences but it's all our history in the end, let's work together..



More than once, over the last few weeks, Amazon has allowed me to stay home when my 80 something mother called wanting to go to the mall for something she really did need. Thank you Amazon.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

A message of hope from some old friends -


----------



## bigburly912

Poppy said:


> Its coming.
> I think they are about to release the 15 minute instant read test in the middle of next week if it isn't already out.
> Then each week production of the test will increase.



Our local converted covid-19 hospital has them available. My wife’s clinic still only has the old tests that she has had available since the beginning of March.


----------



## knucklegary

Thanks PW, Two of the funniest ol' farts still making us laugh 🤗


----------



## Poppy

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> More than once, over the last few weeks, Amazon has allowed me to stay home when my 80 something mother called wanting to go to the mall for something she really did need. Thank you Amazon.


:thumbsup:

Yes, these people are the unsung heroes when they do their job in the midst of danger to themselves!

My 91 y/o father got a COLD food delivery today from a local supermarket that my sister arraigned for him.
Cherry Vanilla Ice Cream! He was so happy when he called my sister that he almost made her cry!

We're in NJ and he's in Florida. She placed the order online and when the shopper was shopping they were texting back and forth making alternate selections when some were not available.

He has another delivery coming Monday or Tuesday and one from Amazon in another week or two.


----------



## RedLED

Yes, Bezos needs to give these people a $30,000.00 bonus for keeping everything running for the public, and including his empire!


----------



## Poppy

bigburly912 said:


> Our local converted covid-19 hospital has them available. My wife’s clinic still only has the old tests that she has had available since the beginning of March.


I am sure that they will roll them out as quickly as possible.

NJ has 9 million people, and next to NY more positive cases than anywhere in the US and...

Today's news:
TRENTON, NJ-- Governor Phil Murphy today announced the acquisition of 15 point-of-care ID NOW testing instruments from the federal government to expand access to COVID-19 testing in New Jersey. The portable, rapid testing machines will be dispersed to health care systems throughout the state, will be able to test for COVID-19 and process specimens in approximately 5-13 minutes.


So, if we in NJ can only get 15 units, production will have to crank up. I am sure that it will. Eventually your wife's clinic will have them too!

Certainly as a country, as a World, we'll be better prepared for the next round.


----------



## bykfixer

From Tony and Esther


----------



## RedLED

Did you read where they are not telling any of the Cats on our nuclear submarines about the virus. I can certainly understand why but what a shock for these submariners when their mission ends. The Captain of the boat knows, and will brief them three days out in order to sink in. They are returning to an upside down world.

Since the Iraq war, I have been secured by a DoD contractor, who brings me in, from time to time, so they can have complete control of the photos. They deal with the US Navy, and USMC. I hope to continue with these missions/assignments but I think I'm retired.

Anyway, I was raised by two Green Berets, one a West Point graduate who was KIA. I loved my time with the Navy/USMC Even though I was just a civilian. They all look so young.


----------



## turbodog

bykfixer said:


> Thanks Greta. Very uplifting.
> 
> So the term "herd immunity" is being tossed around more and more. Perhaps that is how some in industries with lots of contact like restaraunts and hotels can resume. But what I mean is there are folks wondering why out breaks have not been huge in California like they were in New York. Lots of folks visited California from China early on. Some speculate there were a bunch of people who had it and did not know it back in January, recovered and are now immune. There were stories in parts of Cali and New York of folks getting flu like symptoms but doctors could not find influenza in them. Mainly construction workers it seems.
> 
> Today a guy called into a radio show I was listening to who said he and about 200 others on a construction site in down town New York got sick between Thanksgiving and New Years. Every one of them he said. And doctors were baffled. So they sent them home told to take Tylenol and drink lots of fluids. Dude said "you know us construction workers drank plenty of fluids alright. Beer and booze and just toughed it out." "We work to make money so some flu don't slow us down". His reason for calling was to say he believed he had covid-19 back in the beginning when nobody knew it even existed except for a cluster of sick people in China who did not yet know what it was either.
> 
> This whole antibody test thing they speak should shed light on that. I mean we all know somebody who never ever ever gets sick while folks all around drop like flies. You moms know what I mean. There's just something there that thwarts off bugs while us dads lay around watching football with thermometers poking out our mouth while laying under a blankee.
> "I'm sooooooo siiiiick honey, can you bring me some Doritos". lol
> 
> We'll see soon enough.



I was talking with a good friend several states away today about the idea that it came through way back in early Jan in the NC/SC area. Flu test was negative.

While I _want_ to believe it was covid it begs two questions:

1. How did such random people get infected that did not frequent airports/etc?

2. If it's as contagious as it appears, and if people randomly across the US had it back in Jan... we would have a full blown out of control infection on our hands LONG before now.


----------



## ven

After 3 negative headlines (nothing new there!!!!) it was nice to read a positive. Scientists are 80% positive that a vaccine could be read by as early as September ! That’s good news imo , certainly as early on, the suggestion of 18months. Source sky news
Sarah Gilbert is a professor of vaccinology and says that she is "80% confident" a COVID-19 vaccine being developed by her team will work.


----------



## bykfixer

Right now it is just a theory tubodog. One with enough "hmmm, could it be true" to have the gubment hiring companies to come up with a finger poke blood sample reader to test for antibodies. Similar to glucose checkers diabetics use or those colesterol reader machines that can give results from a small blood sample in a couple of minutes. 

Now how can a person who does not frequent airports have gotten it? I have never been on an airplane. But last November I was in a meeting with people who had flown on an airplane within that week. One just came back from Isreal, one had flown back from Florida, one from Paris and another from New York. My wife had gone to see her mom and flown back too. Most reading this either fly or know folks who do. 

Now one theory being tossed around is that lots of people had been spreading it and recovering so nobody was being cautious. Yet when it found its way to nursing homes people started noticing people were die-ing after being near someone who had just returned from China. Remember, 85% of those infected will be fine. Of the 15% not fine, 10% will recover. In the aggregate across the globe it appears that between 1 and 2% of cases are fatal. So it is conceivable that a few folks had died already from it but nobody knew what "it" was back then. 

There are theories going around now that it did not begin at that now famous fish market. Only a few of the original "known" cases were people who had been around the place or around somebody who had. Now a couple of tin hat types are saying it's a SARS clone with added protiens. Others theorize it's just a nature made SARS with a twist. Heck they're still trying to figure out if the Spanish flu began on a pig farm in Kansas USA, or a bat in Africa caused it. Or……in China. We may never know. Same with Covid-19.

What we do know is 6 foot distancing, washing your hands and not touching your mouth, nose or eyes with covid-19 molecules lessens the spread. Herd immunity? Time will tell.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

A 15 year old boy in a remote tribe in the Amazon rain forest tested positive for corona virus. They said it's worrying that someone from such an isolated tribe got the virus. Here's the article: http://foxnews.com/world/teen-in-remote-amazonian-tribe-tests-positive-for-coronavirus

Now the troubling question is is the virus now airborne, did he get it from an infected animal, or was there an outside visitor to the tribe? This case has me thinking that social distancing isn't going to be enough to stop the spread. The tribe was basically quarantined for life already and someone caught the virus.


----------



## Kestrel

My first thought is a false positive (happens often, from what I gather), or test sample contamination.
I do have reservations about engaging in further speculation however; most US news sources are so poor, plus that article link isn't even coming up for me.


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## bigburly912

Ummm. How remote is that tribe if he was able to get to a hospital and get tested for Covid19? Doesn’t add up.


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## Hooked on Fenix

Kestrel said:


> My first thought is a false positive (happens often, from what I gather), or test sample contamination.
> I do have reservations about engaging in further speculation however; most US news sources are so poor, plus that article link isn't even coming up for me.


Sorry, had to fix the link. It works now.


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## chassesauvage

Ohh man, my business has been massively affected. I hope it all ends soon. Stay safe!


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## Kestrel

9 sentences in that entire 'article'; with 4-5 of them being puff / filler ?

Normally I have reservations about making broad statements here, but I get better & more comprehensive news content from 160-character text messages.
I can imagine the level of the subsequent posted feedback / replies; can't bear to even look at those.


Kestrel said:


> [...] most US news sources are so poor.


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## ven

bigburly912 said:


> Ummm. How remote is that tribe if he was able to get to a hospital and get tested for Covid19? Doesn’t add up.




Exactly , my thoughts to. You would never know if a tribe had it! Or for a long while anyway...........headlines sells papers(so to speak).

UK very sad, an 11yr old passed from covid19. , 980 passed Friday, 823 today. Of the 823, the age varied from 11 to 102yrs old. 33 of these had no underlying health conditions. 

Stay safe CPF


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## ven

Hooked on Fenix said:


> A 15 year old boy in a remote tribe in the Amazon rain forest tested positive for corona virus. They said it's worrying that someone from such an isolated tribe got the virus. Here's the article: http://foxnews.com/world/teen-in-remote-amazonian-tribe-tests-positive-for-coronavirus
> 
> Now the troubling question is is the virus now airborne, did he get it from an infected animal, or was there an outside visitor to the tribe? This case has me thinking that social distancing isn't going to be enough to stop the spread. The tribe was basically quarantined for life already and someone caught the virus.



I cant comment on the tribe part, too many alarms for me. But i will say i personally believe its more air born than first thought. It has to be IMO , simply by how many are catching/spreading it. If it was only by touch and then touching face, how can so many be infected.

Stay safe HOF


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## bykfixer

Influenza killed 63k in the US in the previous 12 month period and estimated 500,000 worldwide yet there's a shot and all kinds of treatments fot that. Not saying flu and covid are same, just answering a question "how does it spread so fast". 
18 million cases in the US diring that period. That is known cases. Covid-19 spreads an estimated 3x the rate of influenza. 

Folks, it aint airborne, it doesn't jump 20 feet, it doesn't somehow fall from the sky into isolated jungles. What it does do is show that the human race does a helluva good job at spreading disease. 

Most people are being coaxed into thinking everything is contaminated. It's not. It's simple math. Statistics and models are like apples and grapefruit. Models predict. Statistics show history. Now in the US 78% polled last week said they don't know anyone with covid-19. 78% said they are afraid they will. 

Ok lets take a street in a neighborhood with 50 homes. Each home has 3 people. A month ago three folks in 3 of those houses got covid and self quarentined. All three of those homes likely meant 9 cases total. Everybody in all three likely got it. You'd think only 9 cases, no biggy. Well before the 30 day shutdown those 9 folks had each passed it around. Say those 50 houses all shared recipes for lasagne, or cookies in a week. The 9 cases is now potentially 450 cases. Next street over 50 houses, next street over 50 more. Potentialy 1350 cases. 

Now imagine 1/3 of those folks went to work in a building 50 businesses with only one elevator. A hotel with 50 rooms and one elevator. Say 1/2 of the folks at both gave it to 3 people. Potentially 1350 times 50 more. All from 3 houses with one case three weeks before the 30 day shutdown. Week four, the week the 30 day shutdown began, potentially tens of thousands of people had it. 

What the models are not showing is the 98 out of 100 will be fine. It takes several weeks for that to show up but if you look at the worldwide numbers it already shows hundreds of thousands have recovered in about a month. The US press is very unreliable. Blame capitalism. See, they are in business to make a profit. One side gets ad dollars from the same people the other side does. And it aint McDonalds or Castrol motor oil. It's big pharma. If you don't change the channels on a split screen tv showing news leaning left and news leaning right you'll see the same ads for the same pills. Pills that make it possible to set by a pool and eat cake all day but not be diabetic. Pills to give your 89 year old grandpa the libido of a teenager. Pills to fix baldness. Pills to halt old people stuff. If you believe 'em. 

Nothing new. The meetings to define what the US Constitution would say were held in secret so that the press could not spread rumors and inuendos. A free press understands that scareing people gets ratings. Be it politics or pandemic, drama means dollars. Now in the US the press at large is in two distinct political camps. Some lean right, some lean left. But both are in business to sway public opinion in order to generate a fan base of returning viewers each morning or evening. Some make money pissing off the other side. People on the left making money by pissing off people on the right. People on the right making money by pissing off people on the left. 

Soundbites have replaced truth. And thusfar the covid-19 pandemic has been a gold mine for both sides.


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## trailhunter

Its aerosolized, someone coughing on your street and his particles coming into your house from a gust of wind is possible.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Influenza killed 63k in the US in the previous 12 month period and estimated 500,000 worldwide yet there's a shot and all kinds of treatments fot that. Not saying flu and covid are same, just answering a question "how does it spread so fast".
> 18 million cases in the US diring that period. That is known cases. Covid-19 spreads an estimated 3x the rate of influenza.
> 
> Folks, it aint airborne, it doesn't jump 20 feet, it doesn't somehow fall from the sky into isolated jungles. What it does do is show that the human race does a helluva good job at spreading disease.
> 
> .


I'm not sure what your point was with the above post, but my numbers are a little different.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html


> CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2018–2019 season included an estimated 35.5 million people getting sick with influenza, 16.5 million people going to a health care provider for their illness, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths from influenza (Table 1).


The US deaths as of yesterday due to covid 19 were 20,126, with about 9,000 of them in NY and NJ combined.

Regarding airborne or not, it probably is airborne. IMO. Earlier, experts told us all we had to do was to wash our hands, after touching anything, and NOT put our fingers to the mucus membranes of our nose, eyes, or mouth. Now we are told to stay 6 feet away, and to wear a mask. Now some experts have said that after someone sneezes it may stay in the air for 30 minutes. I think the definition of airborne is a little imprecise.


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## ven

trailhunter said:


> Its aerosolized, someone coughing on your street and his particles coming into your house from a gust of wind is possible.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



Yes, its been found that it can be airborn for several minutes. Basically someone infected can cough or sneeze in a shop, then leave. You can go in that shop within a minute or so, then breath it in. Potentially 2 or 3 or ?? mins in the air.......


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## ven

Source skynews, little demo of covid19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZSKoNGTR6Q&feature=emb_logo


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## Chauncey Gardiner

Not so fast, bykfixer. If there was a pill to fix baldness, Jason Alexander, aka George Constanza, would no longer be bald. Need more proof; Ron Howard.


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## ven

chassesauvage said:


> Ohh man, my business has been massively affected. I hope it all ends soon. Stay safe!



Sorry to hear, unfortunately i can not see this ending anytime soon. I can not even see back to normal in May, even June. Problem is, until we have had a vaccine, none of us are fully safe. This could/maybe be September. Thats much better than first predicted of a potential 18 months!!!!. Stay safe and:welcome:


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## trailhunter

chassesauvage said:


> Ohh man, my business has been massively affected. I hope it all ends soon. Stay safe!


What kinda business

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## wacbzz

Is 6 feet really enough? 

Published Friday, a new study finds perhaps much different info than what we’ve been practicing...

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885_article

*small sample size*


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## bykfixer

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Not so fast, bykfixer. If there was a pill to fix baldness, Jason Alexander, aka George Constanza, would no longer be bald. Need more proof; Ron Howard.



Perhaps they read the fine print CG. 
Athsma medicine with the potential to cause athsma, anti depressants that can cause depression. 
Baldness cures that can in rare cases cause death? :thinking:


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## ven

wacbzz said:


> Is 6 feet really enough?
> 
> Published Friday, a new study finds perhaps much different info than what we’ve been practicing...
> 
> https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885_article
> 
> 
> 
> *small sample size*



I would hazard a guess at probably not. Even keeping a distance, to walk into a 1 maybe 2 minute old sneeze or cough ,could potentially pass the virus on. 

Stay safe


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## bykfixer

wacbzz said:


> Is 6 feet really enough?
> 
> Published Friday, a new study finds perhaps much different info than what we’ve been practicing...
> 
> https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885_article
> *small sample size*



They said a long time ago that it lives a few hours, up to 3 days on plastics (computer mouse, trash cans) and stainless steel (door knobs and hospital bed hand rails). And the mention of concentrations near icu patients heads? Duh. They're contagious. But is it concentrated enough to pass it on? Hmmm they don't know. Heck you can find cocaine on $100 bills, or carbon 14 in grapes. No need to worry about being busted by a drug dog or die from radiation sickness. 

We can all sample data and snipets all day long and come up with any conclusion we want. Heck one day I felt tight in my chest so I googled heart attack symptoms. Before I finished reading I had all ten symptoms. In the ER they said I had a panic attack. The nurse asked if I had read about symptoms on "web md". "Guilty" I said. She laughed and showed me the graph of my heartbeat and said "you're the third one this week". 

Time will probably show that 6 foot distancing, washing hands frequently and avoiding crowds works. Dr Fauci and Dr Birx both use experience, models and data arrive at their reccomendations. I feel pretty certain that time will show they were correct. 
Stay calm, wash your hands, don't touch your face and enjoy life.


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## wacbzz

With all due respect, while it is an early release article, most peer reviewed science isn’t Web MD. 

The purpose of the post - and their study, as stated - was to perhaps improve on the safety practices now in place. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## turbodog

Regardless how long this thing hangs in the air, social distancing has very significant success, does not impact daily life very much, and costs next to nothing. Hand washing helps a lot as well.

I spend a lot of time on the road. Have started carrying my lunch in a cooler to avoid stopping @ gas stations or fast food for lunch.


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## archimedes

turbodog said:


> Regardless how long this thing hangs in the air, social distancing has very significant success, does not impact daily life very much, and *costs next to nothing*....



Well, apart from the utter destruction of the global economy.


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## StarHalo

Been shipping out a lot of Easter egg sets this week; it's good that the kids will still get Easter, but I hope they're spacing out those eggs..

Costco sent me a flyer that said they're not going to do the weekly coupon/ad book for now, in favor of website ads because their inventory is changing too rapidly. It's amazing to think that only a couple decades ago none of these businesses could have acclimated enough to stay open, now they change so fast that they can't even use any form of semi-permanent advertising.



turbodog said:


> I spend a lot of time on the road. Have started carrying my lunch in a cooler to avoid stopping @ gas stations or fast food for lunch.



That makes it way easier to eat something that's actually healthy; some vegetarian lunch meat on Dave's bread with lettuce and tomato - basically a big tasty slab of protein and fiber. Throw in a sugarless drink mix, easy weight loss..


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## bykfixer

There is a lot of lessons being learned Archi. We can go back and do the woulda, shoulda, coulda thing 'til the cows come home. But when a pandemic halted the world economy things turned ugly quickly. 

When we heard back in I dunno, late January, early February (I forget) that all kinds of factories were halted in China, that alarmed a bunch of tin hat folks who predicted the current circumstances. I joked at work after the new year to people who I knew who had just been on an airplane "you didn't bring back that Wuhan thing did you?" We jokingly called it Wuhan cooties back then. By the time it hit that rest home in Washington we were no longer laughing. The initial 15 day thing the US enacted caused a run on a lot of stuff. Cash, toilet paper, frozen pizza. By day 10 store shelves were looking like they did in Soviet Russia in the 80's. Holy Crap!! This could get ugly fast. 

I was reading until my eyes watered every night well past midnight. I do not trust the press or the government to have my best interest. 
Paniced? No, it was just another cold and flu season to our family. We were already stocked up like we do every year. And every year we donate the non perishables we have left to local food banks. If things work out we may have a similar donation this year. 
I just don't understand complete lockdowns in Alaska, or North Dakota. 

I get it in big cities and nearby communities. But it seemed like leaders thought we would be like Italy from coast to coast and everywhere in between. I respect the populice and how they have largely self policed during this pandemic. Some since early March. My company sent home the office dwellers in mid-March since most of what they do is done on keyboards through the internet. Mostly young folks who by now are probably going nuts with cabin fever. Ugh!! Young, single and stuck in an 800 square foot apartment. Some lost their jobs. Some had their hours cut. 

My favorite Burger King closed. There are now 22 people from just that one location out of work. A great Mexican food joint nearby, same thing. Hotels, abandoned. Airplanes, empty. Heck the other day I saw an Amtrak whiz past and I wondered how many were actually on that one. It goes from DC to Greensboro NC. It stops at 2 places in between. 

Construction is still moving like normal in my state but in others they've stopped that too. My local WalMart and Food Lion have doubled the staff of stockers. Good work until things turn around. But when states will pay you $10-12 and hour to stay home and Uncle Sam kicks in $600 a week, versus $12 an hour to load shelves at a potentially covid-19 infested store? Yeah right. No sane office dweller is going for that. 

Now my state has deemed tax agencies like H&R Block non essential until June 10 but your state taxes are still due May 15, job or no job.

Now this: 
https://www.facebook.com/295644160460352/posts/3217717324919673?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo
Doc says chill folks.


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## StarHalo

bykfixer said:


> I just don't understand complete lockdowns in Alaska, or North Dakota.



North Dakota is not currently under lockdown. But it's almost as if the lockdown states are trying to proactively prevent something..


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## turbodog

archimedes said:


> Well, apart from the utter destruction of the global economy.



Distancing:
equals keeping a little extra space between you and the person next to you
does not equal shutting down the economy


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## Cree XHP 70 LED

turbodog said:


> Distancing:
> equals keeping a little extra space between you and the person next to you
> does not equal shutting down the economy




Well they certainly have shut down the economy. If were not fully open July 1, my words are marked here forever. The second great depression.


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## archimedes

turbodog said:


> Distancing:
> equals keeping a little extra space between you and the person next to you
> does not equal shutting down the economy



I think we may be talking about different definitions.

Per CDC ...

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/social-distancing.html

This has included ...

• Stay 6 feet apart from others while shopping

• Wear a face mask while outside one's home

• Avoid large and small gatherings in private places and public spaces

• Work from home

• Avoid public transport

• Remote learning for school and education

• Limiting or prohibiting so-called "non-essential" business

Effects and costs of these directives have been absolutely massive on the restaurant, travel, sports, and many other industries.

Keeping a little extra space apart is fine, I agree. Some of the other advice may be necessary or prudent in certain situations, but I believe that it should be carefully circumscribed as to location and duration, to minimize its burden.


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## Fish 14

The face mask thing is complete BS, unless it's a n95. The covid virus is .025 micron while the mask only protects to .125 micron. Social distancing does nothing considering a cough, or sneeze can travel 8 feet. And the Corona will live in the air for several minutes. All these guidelines that they are telling us to do are debunk by medical science. If they want to stop this so called"virus" they need to shut the country completely down.


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## trailhunter

I dont think its bs. Anything in front of your airways and the virus is better than nothing. I'd rather have the chance of virus particles landing on a mask than directly into my airway. Additionally m, I'd want to lessen the spread of my disease to others if I was a carrier.

US will likely mandate the requirement for face masks once they realize opening usa for business created another infection. No way around it but to wear masks.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Fish 14

trailhunter said:


> I dont think its bs. Anything in front of your airways and the virus is better than nothing. I'd rather have the chance of virus particles landing on a mask than directly into my airway. Additionally m, I'd want to lessen the spread of my disease to others if I was a carrier.
> 
> US will likely mandate the requirement for face masks once they realize opening usa for business created another infection. No way around it but to wear masks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I get what your saying, but unless it's a N95 mask that filters particles down to .010 micron all other masks don't do anything to prevent germs coming in your airway, or out of you airway. It's documented medical research that goes back 30 years.


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## Fish 14

Do the research and you'll see the facts.


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## trailhunter

Fish 14 said:


> I get what your saying, but unless it's a N95 mask that filters particles down to .010 micron all other masks don't do anything to prevent germs coming in your airway, or out of you airway. It's documented medical research that goes back 30 years.


Agreed.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## StarHalo

The virus doesn't come out of you singularly, it comes out in moisture droplets that are much larger in comparison; you need only capture these droplets and that almost completely removes the risk of transmission, at least from your nose and mouth. The purpose of a basic mask is to prevent infecting others, not prevent you from infection, so it's not going to seal/filter completely from outside - you would only need a high-spec fully-sealing mask in a situation where you're specifically interacting with the infected, such as an ER or police work.


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## ven

Fish 14 said:


> Do the research and you'll see the facts.




Also they can give a false sense of security, some "might" take more risks than normal. Not only that, people will move, adjust, fidget with masks. They are not comfy to wear and usually require being touched several times an hour. If there is any contamination on the mask,. it has now potentially moved to hand, then what ever you touch next(car keys, phone.......etc)

Latex gloves are a pita to, we have them in work and within 20 mins, hands sweating. Horrible to work with. But imho every little helps, even if its a little. 

In the UK the idea of masks is more to keep the virus in(contained) with a possible infected person. Even if it only works a little bit, it still helps towards containing. Distancing and washing hands frequent 

Stay safe fish, happy easter and to all here on CPF. Chocolate can work wonders on a fed up with everything brain!!!


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## ven

A face shield would compliment the mask out and about, its a shame they are not more easily available. Also no need to change every hour or so. Clean/disinfect and good to go again.


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## Poppy

I went out yesterday to get Easter Bread. They allowed only 5 people in the Bakery at a time. But the staff worked slower than molasses and I was in the store much longer than I wanted to be.
At any rate, I wore my mask, and a hooded rain coat. Ofcourse... as soon as I put on the mask, my nose got itchy!

Made me think of that little clip of Robin Williams portraying Teddy Roosevelt's bust in Night at the Museum, with an itchy nose.


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## bykfixer

Why a raincoat? 

Just out of curiosity, of all the folks participating in this thread how many have gotten this thing or knows somebody who did. Not knows somebody who knows somebody. 

Example, my boss who runs a car club knows a guy who's brother in laws cousins uncle died from it. I know of folks being quarentined or were a few weeks back. But do not actually know them personally. 

Just curious. 

Wacbzzz I'm glad to see stuff like the link you posted in ##1172 be out there since it gives information that lets each of us decide for ourselves. Appreciate that. 
There are studies galore on this thing, but finding them isn't always easy. Especially when your favorite search engine is trying to think for you. 
At first finding information was easy but once WHO declared it a pandemic my searches have hits tailored more to hype than facts so a lot of time is wasted trying to sift through the choas. Type in corona and "blam" 300 news stories about a fire at the beer factory or worse, opinion pieces on how the American president has botched things. If you are a tin hat type it's easy to be led to believe this thing is a giant conspiracy to establish dominance by the one world government because 5G is going to wipe out 1/3 of the planet soon. 

I believe it's real, but I also believe it is way over blown. We should take it serious, but not panic. If it were as lethal as buebonic or ebola? Aaaauuugggh!! I'd be wearing one of those dog face rings so my hands could not touch my face, you betcha.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html
Some basic information by the cdc


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## scout24

N95, surgical, or bandana, I think the biggest benefits of a mask are to remind you not to touch your face, and to make others think before getting too close. If someone coughs or sneezes and it's in the air, it can get in through your mucus membranes in your eyes just as easily. I'm not sucking in multiple cubic feet of air like an olympic runner while going through the store, I think it landing on your face is just as big a risk.

Byk- I belong to the GWRRA, Goldwing road riders association. Honda Goldwing social organization. We have I believe 17 chapters in Pa, more in other states. Our sister chapter in NY lost a member who was a nurse in NYC I believe. I'll find his memorial page and send you a link.

Edit- He worked for the USPS. In the photo that was being sent around tonthe group, he was wearing a shirt with a hospital name on it. I stand corrected.


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## bykfixer

Thanks Scout. Exactly correct about the masks. At first they were being used by sick folks to thwart their coughs and sneezes from spewing droplets in the air. Now they are reccomended to thwart those in public from touching their face. I wear a bandana around my neck. In cases where life requires someone be allowed in my 3 foot circle it's easy to deploy. 

I hope that time does not show that right now nobody knows anybody but say two weeks or two months from now that changes.

CDC says ticks and mosquitoes don't spread it.


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## ven

I know of 3 people mr fixer, a work mates mum who has tested positive, so he is off work for 2nd time and 2 weeks again. An older guy Bob who has been poorly for over a month back, bad cough and tested positive and then his wife tested. The former is just up the road in Swinton, the latter Bury. Thats roughly a 10 mile radius.


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## ven

Great pic poppy, i have a mask similar in work for the dust. Will have to dig it out and take a pic! No one will come near you with that on haha........perfect!


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Why a raincoat?
> 
> Just out of curiosity, of all the folks participating in this thread how many have gotten this thing or knows somebody who did. Not knows somebody who knows somebody.
> 
> Example, my boss who runs a car club knows a guy who's brother in laws cousins uncle died from it. I know of folks being quarentined or were a few weeks back. But do not actually know them personally.
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> <SNIP>


Here's an article about my Doctor saving one of his patient's life.

My daughter has not been well for the past 3-5 weeks, often running a low grade fever. She has been in contact with both my doctor and her own, and each has a spreadsheet of patients they have seen and treated for corona 19.

This poop is real. I really only stay in contact with a small group of people. At this time there are 507 people confirmed in my community with it, and 15 deaths and due to HIPPA, the names of who they are is not released. So I don't know if I know anyone with it. Considering that there are 59,000 confirmed in my state, there is an excellent possibility that I know someone with it. Perhaps a relative.
*
Why a raincoat?*
Virus doesn't get through plastic. It is like wearing a whole body face shield. I took it off, outside and hung it over a patio chair in the sun. I took my shoes off and left them outside too. I left my respirator face mask in the car. I don't want to bring any of those virus into the house. 

I then washed my hands and face. Threw the outside wrappers in the trash, and washed my hands again.

Am I a germophobe? Absolutely not! I also am not foolish enough, to not give this bug the respect, that it deserves.


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## bykfixer

Privacy laws are a good thing right now, though far from perfect. At times they can hinder care of a loved one. But right now it keeps communities from witch hunting neighbors. Now my small town has a big mouth so we know where all 6 cases are. One turned to six in 3 days. There'll likely be more as time marches on since we have a ton of nurses living here. 

Mrs Fixer is making washable cloth masks to donate to cops and coworkers. I gave away all of my masks and gloves. I have a face shield from working with wood and some goggles but since my son works at a pharmacy I gave them to him if he chooses to wear either. 

We go out early for errands and avoid crowded places. When I go to pump gas I pick a pump where the handle is baking in the sun. But we've been doing that for years now to avoid the flu. I'm fully aware of the spread rate and all that but if you treat life like you are trying to avoid the annual flu, not that many changes are required. When my pop was still around we wore masks if we had a cold or flu, washed things with warm water often, avoided touching our faces as much as practical and all those cdc reccomendations being tossed around. 

This weeks grocery store jaunt was pretty casual. There might have been 50 people including the workers. About 10% were wearing masks. 100% kept their distance. The one lady power walking through the store with an over flowing cart was a novelty. Still no toilet paper, but lots of distilled water and facial tissues were available. My brother who dresses like he is expecting a chemical weapon attack will probably go out later. But he had a heart attack in February so I understand. We ask shut-in neighbors before going out "need anything" and hear "nawp I'm good here". If you want spagetti for dinner, forget it. Same with canned soup, sliced cheese and yogurt. Want bird, cow or pig, there was plenty to choose from. No selection of decaf coffee for the third week in a row. I find that strange because that's usually readily available even during sales. Same with dish powder. The cookie aisle was strangley barren this week. Perhaps the Keebler elves had an outbreak? Or perhaps depressed folks have given up on fresh veggies and turned to comfort food. Screw it, CNN says I'll be dead in a few days so why bother. 

We could go to Sams Club or Costco for a laugh but panic buying at those places makes crowds larger than I want to be in right now. Same with Wal Mart and Target. Meanwhile the crazy lady who wears goloshes year round is still walking around the neighborhood with a leaf blower cleaning neighbors street gutters as about 10 cats follow her aroound. And the fat guy trying to lose weight by cutting neighbors lawns is now cutting ever yard on my street but mine at no charge. He offered to do mine while I worked out of town. "no thanks" I said because I love doing yard work. 

Life in Mayberry is adjusting. We all know most of us will be ok. It's reminiscent of the Vietnam era where most are unaffected but a certain age group is a bit nervous right now. Instead of it being 18-24 year olds this time it's 60-90 year olds. About half of my neighbors are original owners of houses built in the 1960's so the other half has been looking out for them long before this covid-19 started. We just stay 6 feet away from the fence when chatting right now.


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## Fish 14

ven said:


> Also they can give a false sense of security, some "might" take more risks than normal. Not only that, people will move, adjust, fidget with masks. They are not comfy to wear and usually require being touched several times an hour. If there is any contamination on the mask,. it has now potentially moved to hand, then what ever you touch next(car keys, phone.......etc)
> 
> Latex gloves are a pita to, we have them in work and within 20 mins, hands sweating. Horrible to work with. But imho every little helps, even if its a little.
> 
> In the UK the idea of masks is more to keep the virus in(contained) with a possible infected person. Even if it only works a little bit, it still helps towards containing. Distancing and washing hands frequent
> 
> Stay safe fish, happy easter and to all here on CPF. Chocolate can work wonders on a fed up with everything brain!!!


Agreed. Not to mention, a medical study was done stating that"40%" of medical professionals do not remove their gloves properly. I could only imagine what the percentage is of non medical personal
.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

Don't worry about if you have been in contact with an infected person, Apple and Google will soon be telling us. Now why in the world do they need that information to help you with coronavirus after is is already too late? They will use Bluetooth to know everyone your phone came into contact with, but don't worry, they wont have a way to use unique identifiers. LOL IMEI. They are really stupid when they do these mass susurveillance systems and say it is for our safety.


----------



## wacbzz

Fish 14 said:


> ....*a medical study was done* stating that"40%" of medical professionals do not remove their gloves properly.



Do you have a link for this study? I just mentioned this to my sister who is a PA at a very prestigious medical center in LA and she wondered exactly who these “professionals” were. She has to spend two hours of every shift working only in the COVID-19 area of the center. I told her I would try to get the exact study...

Thanks.


----------



## Poppy

ven said:


> Great pic poppy, i have a mask similar in work for the dust. Will have to dig it out and take a pic! No one will come near you with that on haha........perfect!


It's true!
Your Darth Vader mask will get even more attention :nana:

Later I am going to put together a shopping list and go out either tomorrow or Tuesday morning during Senior hour 6:00 AM - 7:30AM
Not sure if I'll wear a rain coat, or a tyvek coveralls.

I did the math and 1% of the population in my area have tested positive, and 44% of those tested, tested negative. What the percentage of false negatives is, has not been released, (at least not to the general public). In order to be tested, you must be symptomatic enough for your doctor to give you a prescription for the test. Therefore almost 2% of the population in my area are symptomatic enough to get a prescription, others may not be symptomatic enough, or are riding it out without asking for a script.

The good news for the rest of the country is that we are only about 25 miles from NYC, many from this area commute into NYC, and our population density is about 2,300 / square mile. 2% is much less than the earlier predictions of 40% infected. West New York, NJ has a population density of about 41,000 per square mile, as compared to Richmond Virginia with a pop density of 3,800 per square mile. Miami, FL has a population density of about 13,000 per square mile.

All this to say is that population density is a major driving factor in the rate of infection. Therefore, if you live in a part of the country where there is a low population density, and you are far enough away from a high density area, (so that there are not a lot of commuters into that area) that if your community practices safe distancing, you may see a lower infection rate yet.


----------



## jrgold

Poppy said:


> It's true!
> Your Darth Vader mask will get even more attention :nana:
> 
> Later I am going to put together a shopping list and go out either tomorrow or Tuesday morning during Senior hour 6:00 AM - 7:30AM
> Not sure if I'll wear a rain coat, or a tyvek coveralls.



Check and see if instacart is available in your area. It’s a shopping service where you specify what store you want stuff from, and what you want. If something isn’t available they suggest an alternative. My wife works as an instacart shopper and it’s been busy for her. She has had a lot of senior customers. It’s significantly less of a risk to come in contact with one person rather than a store full. One bad consequence of the social distancing closures is it’s funneling everyone to the same stores. Also despite the 6’ spacing, everyone is bunched together in a line out front


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ven

Haha poppy, very true!

Wear the coat poppy, peace of mind and any extra protection is only a good thing! Take care and stay safe.


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## Fish 14

wacbzz said:


> Do you have a link for this study? I just mentioned this to my sister who is a PA at a very prestigious medical center in LA and she wondered exactly who these “professionals” were. She has to spend two hours of every shift working only in the COVID-19 area of the center. I told her I would try to get the exact study...
> 
> Thanks.


I'll post it


----------



## Poppy

jrgold said:


> Check and see if instacart is available in your area. It’s a shopping service where you specify what store you want stuff from, and what you want. If something isn’t available they suggest an alternative. My wife works as an instacart shopper and it’s been busy for her. She has had a lot of senior customers. It’s significantly less of a risk to come in contact with one person rather than a store full. One bad consequence of the social distancing closures is it’s funneling everyone to the same stores. Also despite the 6’ spacing, everyone is bunched together in a line out front
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you so very much for the suggestion.

My sister used instacart shopper for my 91 y/o dad in Florida. It worked out great!
When he called to thank her for his Ice Cream, he was so happy he just about made her cry 

As a Senior shopper, so far the store has been relatively thinly occupied at that time in the morning. I only recently made it into the Senior class ;-)
If it is too crowded, I'll either do the short list, or not at all.

But in either case, I'm not going to be that guy!







Thanks again!
Poppy


----------



## bigburly912

Don’t want to quote but in regards to Byks questions. I know 3 of the people personally in wise county and my wife knows the speech therapists that had it at the nursing home. 

As far as the US goes we know 100% the number of deaths in the US is skewed due to the way the CDC has required the reporting of deaths associated with the virus. If you die and are even suspected of having the virus it’s reported as a covid death. Why is it like that? I have no idea. I guess to make it easier on the slammed hospitals


----------



## Poppy

Yeah, regarding knowing someone:
Yesterday I saw my neighbor, still burly, but not quite so big, and a bit unsteady on his feet.
He was out for the first time in three weeks, changing his St Patty's Day flag for that of the USA.

He said that he has an "essential" business, and his brother had to go in for him.


----------



## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> I wore my mask, and a hooded rain coat.



The virus can't get through your skin, so the coat is optional. Be aware that if you have the infection on your hands or arms and you wipe your exposed eyes with either, it will get in your body that way; a light mask and remembering not to touch anything on your face is really all you need. 



jrgold said:


> Check and see if instacart is available in your area.



Our house has used Instacart regularly for years, however since the pandemic started, in our area we've found that when you put in an order they give you a broad date range for sometime roughly later in the week - putting in an order on Sunday results in your order projected to be filled sometime Wednesday-Saturday, with Saturday being the day it actually happens. The online shopping places are now faster to deliver groceries [if you're ordering what's actually in stock.]


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## ven

I think part of the idea with the coat star, is you go out, come back. Remove coat outside which saves changing clothes every time you need to leave house. Any potential virus on the coat stays there and can be managed(knowing the coat is the over lay). Be it left in the sun, washed down or simply stored till your next time you leave. Just offers another layer of protection imo, not a bad idea. 

Obviously touching face and not washing hands undoes the measure.


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## wacbzz

Fish 14 said:


> I'll post it



Great! I’ll be watching the thread for it so I can send it to her.


----------



## StarHalo

ven said:


> I think part of the idea with the coat star, is you go out, come back. Remove coat outside which saves changing clothes every time you need to leave house. Any potential virus on the coat stays there and can be managed(knowing the coat is the over lay). Be it left in the sun, washed down or simply stored till your next time you leave. Just offers another layer of protection imo, not a bad idea.



There's the grain of a good idea there, but you're most likely to have it on your hands; I'd prefer some gloves over the coat.


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## bykfixer

https://www.facebook.com/97177340956/posts/10156842042090957?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo

Note how she removes her gloves.


----------



## nbp

And there’s only an advantage to gloves if you peel them off (properly) and toss them immediately after touching the contaminated surface and do not touch ANYTHING like your face or other high touch surfaces while they are on. Otherwise you may as well just use your hands. There’s no magical germ killing ability of gloves and like SH said the virus doesn’t penetrate skin. So wearing gloves to touch the shopping cart or credit card machine and then brushing the hair off your face with them renders them useless. Just wash your hands. 

In this article an epidemiologist indicates that 10-15% of the time people contaminate their hands taking off gloves and that for most everday day tasks handwashing is more effective than wrangling around with gloves. 

Coronavirus FAQs: Do Gloves Protect You? Is It Allergies Or COVID-19? : Goats and Soda - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...qs-do-gloves-heip-is-it-allergies-or-covid-19


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## wacbzz

bykfixer said:


> https://www.facebook.com/97177340956/posts/10156842042090957?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo
> 
> *Note how she removes her gloves*.



Appropriately of course. I love how she said “there’s some science here.” 

I’m just waiting for that “40% of medical professionals” study link. Like my sister, I’m pretty curious who did the study and who was considered a “medical professional” for its purpose...


----------



## knucklegary

Totally agree with nbp (acronym?) For general protection when out and about you're better off keeping a small bottle of hand sanitizer in pocket and use the hell out of it!

Gloves,, yes of course if you're sticking hands directly into something like a crappy diaper and/or wiping off a messy loved ones tushy


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## nbp

knucklegary said:


> Totally agree with nbp (acronym?)



Initials.


----------



## Poppy

Its funny how so many of speak as though we really KNOW what we are talking about. Are we not only repeating what we read, or a video that we saw? How is it not, that we only know what they want us to know?

There's a mask shortage. Official position... general population doesn't need masks, only 1st responders.
There's a PPE shortage... 1st responders need gowns
1st responders need gloves.

There's an overall need for more hand sanitizers.

_______________________________________________

So answer me this:
If the virus can't get through your skin, or that of 1st responders, why does anyone need gloves?
If the only way one can get infected is by direct contact, and placing the virus in one's eye or nose, Why does anyone need a mask? Can't people be trained to not put viruses into their eye?
If it may be transmitted by a cough or sneeze, by expelling sputum, onto a victim, should that victim also be wearing a face shield? (to protect his/her eyes?)

When the experts speak of asymptomatic people shedding virus and spreading the disease, what do they mean? If they are asymptomatic, they are not coughing and sneezing... how are they spreading the disease?

Some say that it may be aerosolized, and there is debate about how long it may remain in the air, and how far it may travel and still be of sufficient strength to infect. Certainly I do not know the answer to that. If it is determined by the powers that be, that it is for the greater good that information is kept from us, will it?

________________________________________________

For now, I'll wear safety glasses, my ventilator mask, and shed-able outerwear and gloves when I go food shopping.
If the virus is in the air, and gets on my clothes, I want to leave it outside for a day, preferably in the sun, or fold it upon itself, and put it in the washing machine.


----------



## trailhunter

Were all self made virologists 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## nbp

trailhunter said:


> Were all self made virologists
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



Haha, to some extent even the experts are. 

I am not an epidemiologist but I do have a Bachelors Degree in Biology and worked for seven years in a lab for a company where we made hand sanitizers and anti bac soaps and did micro cultures and such. So I’m not a total dunce. [emoji6]


@ Poppy:

Do some reading on bloodborne precaution vs contact precaution vs droplet precaution vs airborne precaution. You will see why COVID19 is not *generally* considered “airborne” like measles or TB, but also how much variability and overlap there are in these precautions. People act like there is a sharp cutoff between droplet and airborne and there are certainly differences but there is a level of overlap as well. When you talk or cough not every moisture droplet that leaves your face is the same size or is expelled at the same speed or in the same direction, so making hard fast rules about how easily something is transmitted is exceedingly difficult. But there are generally recognized guidelines about how a particular disease is *most typically* transmitted. It’s impossible to imagine every possible situation in which a person might transfer the critters. 

It’s also interesting that many people are acting as though pathogens were just invented a month ago, suddenly disinfecting and fretting over items and actions they haven’t given a second thought to cleaning for decades of life. We come into contact with some 60,000 different “germs” per day, millions of individual viruses and bacteria, and likely only get sick, what, once or twice per year? Our immune systems are excellent. Your body has been fighting pathogen assaults 24 hours per day since you were born. Practice good hygiene, but 99% of your daily activities are no germier than they were a few weeks ago when you didn’t give it a second thought. Keep calm and wash your paws.


----------



## bykfixer

Bravo!!

Check this video out.
https://www.facebook.com/108641910522278/videos/152114646171233?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo
Shows where the droplets go


----------



## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> Its funny how so many of speak as though we really KNOW what we are talking about. Are we not only repeating what we read, or a video that we saw?



I am only repeating what handling procedures I used in college science classes and the local university hospital NICU.



Poppy said:


> How is it not, that we only know what they want us to know?



Because scientific knowledge is open-source and available to all, and you can see these techniques in use in hospital and general healthcare settings.



Poppy said:


> If the virus can't get through your skin, or that of 1st responders, why does anyone need gloves?



The purpose of your largest organ, the skin, is to block external organisms and conditions from entering. You use gloves where you don't want material transfer to/from a specific situation, then you remove the gloves when exiting that situation. 



Poppy said:


> If the only way one can get infected is by direct contact, and placing the virus in one's eye or nose, Why does anyone need a mask? Can't people be trained to not put viruses into their eye?



You emit moisture particles when you speak/sneeze/cough/exhale sharply, so anyone standing in front of you can be exposed to that if there isn't something to block it. You can only control what goes into your eyes by shielding your eyes.



Poppy said:


> If it may be transmitted by a cough or sneeze, by expelling sputum, onto a victim, should that victim also be wearing a face shield? (to protect his/her eyes?)



The simple disposable mask is cheaper and less intrusive than the full face plastic shield. 



Poppy said:


> When the experts speak of asymptomatic people shedding virus and spreading the disease, what do they mean? If they are asymptomatic, they are not coughing and sneezing... how are they spreading the disease?



They are spreading the disease by projecting moisture particles when speaking/sneezing/coughing/exhaling sharply, and by touching things when their moisture is on their hands.



Poppy said:


> Some say that it may be aerosolized, and there is debate about how long it may remain in the air, and how far it may travel and still be of sufficient strength to infect. Certainly I do not know the answer to that. If it is determined by the powers that be, that it is for the greater good that information is kept from us, will it?



If it were true, there would not be a way to keep it from you due to the number of countries conducting their own tests and openly sharing that information on the internet. The bigger question is if you would be aware of and/or accept data from other non-American sources; if you're already finding conspiracy and secrecy in what little information you have now, you are not likely to be swayed by more information, or diverse sources, or this post.




nbp said:


> Haha, to some extent even the experts are.



No.


----------



## nbp

StarHalo said:


> No.




That’s right; I forgot all the world experts are in total agreement on everything regarding this health crisis. Ha

No one knows everything and many have their own ideas they feel are right... so, yeah.


----------



## Fish 14

@poppy. About keeping info from us. Here's a little info. I have a family friend that works at rush hospital and back in January we got a phone call from this Friend and the conversation went like this." Fish, what I'm about to tell you, you can't repeat. Because we are not suppose to talk about this outside of here. Go out and stock up and all the essential items you need because we are preparing for a mass pandemic." Now, this was told to me back in Jan and I just thought this Friend was messing around with me. Turns out they weren't. So yes, information is kept from us on a daily basis. 90% of what government tells us is a lie. You should not trust them nor respect them because in the end they will f*** you over with everything they have.


----------



## StarHalo

nbp said:


> That’s right; I forgot all the world experts are in total agreement on everything regarding this health crisis. Ha
> 
> No one knows everything and many have their own ideas they feel are right... so, yeah.



The information you are providing is from experts - if you deride them for providing it, then that feeds into the idea that experts aren't needed and everything is relative so anything goes. There is an objective set of data provided by trained people following the scientific method, you can use the scientific method at any time to challenge these findings, and it can even be entertaining, like the Mythbusters:


----------



## nbp

StarHalo said:


> The information you are providing is from experts - if you deride them for providing it, then that feeds into the idea that experts aren't needed and everything is relative so anything goes. There is an objective set of data provided by trained people following the scientific method, you can use the scientific method at any time to challenge these findings, and it can even be entertaining, like the Mythbusters:



Not deriding, just chuckling because inevitably some things we/they believe to be true now based on data may prove to be at least partly inaccurate down the road. That doesn’t make their advice bad - we can only make decisions based on what we know at any given time. I love science, and science is constantly evolving, as it should. But not all experts agree on everything about this, so somewhere someone who thinks he/she is right is bound to be wrong. That’s just how science works. [emoji51] Greek astronomer Ptolemy thought the Earth was the center of the universe. People believed that for a long time. He was wrong. 

And of course, some so-called experts you may find out there are anything but. I think we can all agree on that one. There are always quacks, and some are quite charismatic. What do they say, anyone can put anything on the internet?


----------



## wacbzz

@Fish 

Do you have that link for the study you quoted earlier? It’s been almost 12 hours since you threw that stat out there in post #1201 about “40% of medical professionals” removing their gloves incorrectly...

Thanks.


----------



## bigburly912

wacbzz said:


> @Fish
> 
> Do you have that link for the study you quoted earlier? It’s been almost 12 hours since you threw that stat out there in post #1201 about “40% of medical professionals” removing their gloves incorrectly...
> 
> Thanks.



When I worked at a hospital in physical therapy from 2001-2005 we had an hours long seminar about glove removal because people didn’t do it correctly. No clue on numbers but they were concerned about it back then.


----------



## Poppy

nbp said:


> Do some reading on bloodborne precaution vs contact precaution vs droplet precaution vs airborne precaution.



@nbp
At your suggestion, a real quick google search brought up this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK551555/
3. Droplet precautions: 


*Droplet precautions are necessary when a patient infected with a pathogen, such as influenza, is within three to six feet of the patient. *
Infections are transmittable through air droplets by coughing, sneezing, talking, and close contact with an infected patient's breathing. *Droplets are about 30 to 50 micrometers in size.*
Patients should be placed in individualized rooms, if possible.
In addition to standard precautions, personnel should wear protective surgical masks should always before interacting between an infected patient or his/her environment.[6]
4. Airborne precautions:


Airborne precautions are required whenever entering a patient's room or environment who has been diagnosed with or is being tested for with high suspicion of anthrax, tuberculosis, measles, chickenpox, or disseminated herpes zoster or *other pathogens that can be transmitted through airflow that are 5 micrometers or smaller in size and remain in the environment for long periods of time*.[1][6]
In addition to standard precautions of wearing gloves and a gown, the CDC requires additional PPE of an approved N95 respirator mask properly fitted for each person working in the health-care environment.[7]
The CDC also strongly recommends placing patients diagnosed with or receiving testing for, with high suspicion of an infectious airborne organism in a single room known as an airborne infection isolation room (AIIR). These are negative pressure rooms that provide air filtration and 6 to 12 air exchanges per hour to reduce the risk of transmission.
_________________________________________________________
COVID19 is 0.125 microns in size.
They haven't told us how long it stays in the air, but it can stay on smooth surfaces for up to 3 days.
COVID19 treatment rooms are negative pressure rooms,
and the treating healthcare workers are using N95 respirator masks.
_________________________________________________________





> You will see why COVID19 is not *generally* considered “airborne” like measles or TB, but also how much variability and overlap there are in these precautions. People act like there is a sharp cutoff between droplet and airborne and there are certainly differences but there is a level of overlap as well.


I appreciate the *qualifiers* you included in your response, and that you mention that there is overlap. Didn't Dr. Fauci say "We don't think it is airborne" ? But as I pointed out above, the hospitals are treating it as though it is.



> When you talk or cough not every moisture droplet that leaves your face is the same size or is expelled at the same speed or in the same direction, so making hard fast rules about how easily something is transmitted is exceedingly difficult. But there are generally recognized guidelines about how a particular disease is *most typically* transmitted. It’s impossible to imagine every possible situation in which a person might transfer the critters.


Agreed. 
What prompted me to write the post that you responded to was after I posted this:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...-Coronavirus&p=5381383&viewfull=1#post5381383

Another poster told me that the coat was optional, and all I had to do was wash my hands.
It just rubbed me the wrong way.
As though he knows more than my brother who has more than 80 hours of training in bio-hazmat procedures.




> It’s also interesting that many people are acting as though pathogens were just invented a month ago, suddenly disinfecting and fretting over items and actions they haven’t given a second thought to cleaning for decades of life. We come into contact with some 60,000 different “germs” per day, millions of individual viruses and bacteria, and likely only get sick, what, once or twice per year? Our immune systems are excellent. Your body has been fighting pathogen assaults 24 hours per day since you were born. Practice good hygiene, but 99% of your daily activities are no germier than they were a few weeks ago when you didn’t give it a second thought. Keep calm and wash your paws.



If you studied virology, I am sure that you're as amazed as I, that our bodies can fight them off. They are completely different than bacteria.

Yet I have full faith and confidence in MY immune system. My daughter chided me for not being the most sanitary person, "yet, you never get sick!" 
She has many allergies, and is borderline asthmatic. Her teenage twin boys were 3 months pre-mature and were in incubators almost all that time before they were released. They also occasionally use inhalers. Therefore it is incumbent upon me, to NOT bring any virus into the house.


----------



## bykfixer

Hey NBP, once upon a time scientists said the world was flat and thought leeches were a good way to heal the sick. So yeah, we know what we know until we know more. 

I read Fuji film is saying they are close to a cure using something for ebola or something. An anti-viral that reduced the death rate from ebola by 50% if I understood it correctly.


----------



## RedLED

nbp, that is cool that you worked in a lab for a company that made hand sanitizer, and soap.


----------



## lion504

StarHalo said:


> The information you are providing is from experts - if you deride them for providing it, then that feeds into the idea that experts aren't needed and everything is relative so anything goes.



I was just talking to a friend about this. I'm not derisive (i.e. mocking, ridiculing) because I appreciate the effort (usually); I'm just VERY skeptical that an expert is telling me something useful. Why? Expectation bias, confirmation bias, bandwagon effect, etc.

Experts are wrong all the time. Maybe 40% of the time? (Most recently telling us "Masks don't work" .... ) 

I work for the government (not in the healthcare field), and based on my experiences, 40% seems a little generous.


----------



## nbp

Right, no harm in changing clothes at all. Plus you’ll smell daisy fresh all day.  From what I’ve read viruses do not do so well in fibrous, porous materials, it’s much harder to pick up the viral particles from something thing like fabric than say, a metal handrail, and also you are unlikely to rub your face all over your clothes, or put your clothes in your mouth. So the relative risk of viruses on your clothes is very very low compared to your hands or other things that you touch and put on your face like glasses, phones etc. Remember, every day you go out and likely pick up rhinoviruses, influenza viruses, noroviruses, rotaviruses, coronaviruses (ones in existence before SARS CO-V-2) etc. and probably don’t worry too much about them on our clothes etc. COVID19 Is likely especially contagious moreso because we are a naive population to this virus, not so much because it is ending up on all kinds of things that viruses never were on before. Sick folks eat donuts on their way to work, lick their fingers and then touch elevator buttons and ATMs everyday, for example. People are probably breathing out viral particles at us all the time and we never knew it because we weren’t watching fun animations of it on the news. Haha


----------



## nbp

RedLED said:


> nbp, that is cool that you worked in a lab for a company that made hand sanitizer, and soap.



I have tested thousands of batches of Purell, ViJon, ECOLAB, Kimberly Clark, Reckitt Benkieser, P & G soap and hand sanitizer for production and finished product. We were a small contract packager but the amount of hand sanitizer we made during H1N1 would have made your head spin. 5 production lines running 12 hrs a day cracking out gels, foams and sprays. Truckloads of 2,000# totes of ethanol showing up. And then the thing fizzled out one day and no ordered for months because they had warehouses full of that crap piled up. It was madness. Lol


----------



## Fish 14

wacbzz said:


> @Fish
> 
> Do you have that link for the study you quoted earlier? It’s been almost 12 hours since you threw that stat out there in post #1201 about “40% of medical professionals” removing their gloves incorrectly...
> 
> Thanks.



https://www.hospitalhealth.com.au/c...emove-ppe-incorrectly-394330322#axzz6JSOCMEFG


Easy bud, I ain't going to argue a fact that I haven't researched.


----------



## wacbzz

@Fish

Thank you for the story. I found the original study after reading the article. It was from Sept 2015 - Feb 2016 (published in May of 2019) and it covered 125 workers at a teaching hospital in Chicago. A little more than 66% of the 125 people were nurses. 

I’ll forward the actual study to my sister.


----------



## Fish 14

wacbzz said:


> @Fish
> 
> Thank you for the story. I found the original study after reading the article. It was from 2018 (published in May of 2019) and it covered 125 workers at a teaching hospital in Chicago. A little more than 66% of the 125 people were nurses.
> 
> I’ll forward the actual study to my sister.


No problem bud, I'm not the kind of person that's going to toss out false stats. I have nothing to gain from it.


----------



## wacbzz

I was wrong about the dates and changed in my post as you were quoting me, but thanks nonetheless.


----------



## SCEMan

nbp said:


> Not deriding, just chuckling because inevitably some things we/they believe to be true now based on data may prove to be at least partly inaccurate down the road. That doesn’t make their advice bad - we can only make decisions based on what we know at any given time. I love science, and science is constantly evolving, as it should. But not all experts agree on everything about this, so somewhere someone who thinks he/she is right is bound to be wrong. That’s just how science works. [emoji51] Greek astronomer Ptolemy thought the Earth was the center of the universe. People believed that for a long time. He was wrong.
> 
> And of course, some so-called experts you may find out there are anything but. I think we can all agree on that one. There are always quacks, and some are quite charismatic. What do they say, anyone can put anything on the internet?



It really is amazing when you look back at all the "experts" over the last 20 years or so who appeared during various crises, and who later in post-mortems proved to be incorrect, or completely wrong in their assessments. And for the most part they seldom seem to be held accountable, and in many cases continue to be considered experts.


----------



## bykfixer

Good news this morning. 
Everybody reading this is still here. 

So remember to wash your hands and only touch your face with your elbow.


----------



## Poppy

nbp said:


> *Right, no harm in changing clothes at all. Plus you’ll smell daisy fresh all day.*  From what I’ve read viruses do not do so well in fibrous, porous materials, it’s much harder to pick up the viral particles from something thing like fabric than say, a metal handrail, and also you are unlikely to rub your face all over your clothes, or put your clothes in your mouth. So the relative risk of viruses on your clothes is very very low compared to your hands or other things that you touch and put on your face like glasses, phones etc. Remember, every day you go out and likely pick up rhinoviruses, influenza viruses, noroviruses, rotaviruses, coronaviruses (ones in existence before SARS CO-V-2) etc. and probably don’t worry too much about them on our clothes etc. *COVID19 Is likely especially contagious moreso because we are a naive population to this virus,* not so much because it is ending up on all kinds of things that viruses never were on before. Sick folks eat donuts on their way to work, lick their fingers and then touch elevator buttons and ATMs everyday, for example. People are probably breathing out viral particles at us all the time and we never knew it because we weren’t watching fun animations of it on the news. Haha


Thanks... not only daisy fresh, but "Charmin Clean" :thumbsup:

Considering that we are a naive population to this virus, I wonder what percentage of our population needs to be exposed and recovered before we can safely get back to more normal/less restrictive activities. Certainly there will be a "new normal." I wonder what it will be. I wonder what the plan will be to lift restrictions, allow people to go back to work, and balance the rate of return to the rate of the rise of number of infections, and hospitalizations, and ultimately deaths.

Big decisions are coming, and some trial and error. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out.


----------



## nbp

I’m a Charmin man too, haha. There’s only one of me so I splurge for the good stuff.  

Agreed, that is $1M dollar question. Or should I say $2T question? We may never be free of this virus, just as we battle numerous other yuckies all the time. But at some point we gotta find an acceptable amount of risk and get back to living. I don’t think anyone knows exactly when that will be or what the metrics are for acceptable risk/infection rates. Presumably when they feel the rate of infection and hospitalization is within the capacity of the nation’s hospitals to handle. That is only my opinion, not any official statement I’ve seen.


----------



## bykfixer

How do we restart the economy? 
Once the restrictions are done I plan on going out for a steak and tip the server well, stop in a hobby store that was deemed non essential and buy an RC car or something cool like that, stop at a shoe store that was closed and buy some shoes and then go by a barber shop and pay for a haircut for the first time since the 1990's. 

A fellow that has a temp agency in the building I work out of says nobody wants a job right now. "Why should they when the combination of state and feds plan is paying folks between $14 and $22 an hour" he said. He said he has lots of jobs listed at grocery stores, factories, food services, travel agencies and others yet nobody is applying". 
That was a sobering statement.


----------



## nbp

Do they not want to work, or are they afraid to work in those sectors due to potential exposure? It may not be laziness that keeps them home. A few months ago unemployment was crazy low, people were happy to work.


----------



## StarHalo

An article over at The Atlantic, We're Not 'All In It Together': 



> After many decades of truancy, when our markets and politics and pop culture valorized extreme egoism, COVID-19 has offered us a crash course in civic character. The pandemic is forcing Americans to choose, very visibly, whether to live like citizens or like sociopaths. Citizens see in systems, while sociopaths see only themselves; citizens defer short-term gratification for long-term benefit, while sociopaths flip the sequence.


----------



## bykfixer

nbp said:


> Do they not want to work, or are they afraid to work in those sectors due to potential exposure? It may not be laziness that keeps them home. A few months ago unemployment was crazy low, people were happy to work.



Valid questions. 
What he was stressing wasn't really about being lazy and if my post came off that way, oops. It wan't meant to. What he was saying was that his temp agency business is ironically being crushed right now. We were discussing businesses affected and how they can return to normal either by adjusting their business model like hotel food suppliers switching to home delivery or in his case lowering his profit to zero so he can stay afloat until what looks like could be mid to late summer.

America in general has shown proper civics galore. It's everywhere you look except your tv screen and in op-ed pieces. It's there, you just have to turn off the news to find it.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Looks like politics will play a part in when states lockdowns may end, not just be based on when it's actually safe. In Michigan, people are fed up to the point that they're signing a petition to recall their governor over how the lockdown infringed on their rights. Other states may follow suit. The way some of these lockdowns took place has been blatantly unconstitutional and a lot of people have had enough. This may pressure politicians to get things back to normal or risk losing their jobs. I honestly think that when it comes people's safety, most politicians would try to save their job over saving lives so the lockdowns may start ending soon. I just hope it doesn't backfire and start this all over again.


----------



## bykfixer

I called that many pages ago HoF when I said Americans will not be forceably corraled. I agree 100% with what you are saying. Making sidewalks one way? Fining people for going to a park? Breaking up barbecues? Can't play basketbal? The head dude Fouchi said last night "we may carry fitness cards later" This aint China, it aint Iran, it aint East Germany. 
"Ask me to stay home, yup you got it. Tell me to, screw you man I'm an American by golly" is some of the sentiment right now. Especially the youth who are young, energetic and bored out of their minds.


----------



## Poppy

In part I think that we are all living in different realities.

Much of it is related to the population density of where we live and work.

Let's look at the population densities of three different states, NJ, Va, and Arkansas.
NJ density 1200 per square mile Mostly in the NE section of the state. (for example West New York NJ has a density of 52,000 per square mile)
VA density 1/6th that at 200 per square mile, here's some maps
Arkansas 1/24th of that at 50 per square mile.

Here in NE NJ we are acutely aware of the virus, and we are doing our civic duty, to stay in place, and not congregate, to slow the tide of the pandemic. So that our hospitals, and auxillary/overflow beds are not overwhelmed to the point of having to choose who gets cared for and who dies.

Our return to "normal" will probably be a mitigated approach.
NY's Governor Cuomo said today that when it happens, he wants NY, NJ, CN, DE, and PA to work together as much as possible in a coordinated opening the valve. In opening the valve, they will have to keep an eye on the number of new hospitalizations to make sure the system can appropriately handle the new influx. He went on to say, that experts in various fields will have to make a plan. There isn't a plan, yet, other than to make one.

I saw in today's news that Cuomo was able to return some borrowed ventilators to a nursing home today.
It is said that NJ has not yet hit its peak, and yesterday our Governor said that we only have (I don't recall... 60 ventilators in reserve?)
Regarding when to return to school, he may co-ordinate it with NY. 
Also there needs to be a plan, but we are not near ready to make one. We are still fighting the fire.

Virginia
People may think it is fake news when there is only 8 reported infected in their county. Maybe 100 in the state 2 1/2 weeks ago. They'll start to wake up to the reality when they see that it is coming home. See this article and graph
increased to over 5,700 in the last 2 1/2 weeks.

Arkansas
Population density of about 50 per square mile.
They have not enacted stay at home. In fact the governor wants people to keep their distance but otherwise go on with their daily lives so as not to impact the local economy.
He says they have 8,000 beds, and only 80 cases in the state.


----------



## scout24

Insults, more politics, infectious disease experts are now civics professors. Thread cleanup coming in 5....


----------



## knucklegary

Isn't the message i keep hearing "we're all in this together" 
Sounds pretty simple to me brothers


----------



## nbp

Aww man, we were really having a good discussion now the past day or so. 

Remember when Admin posted pages ago about attacking posts not the poster??? Yeah, now would be a good time to heed that warning.


----------



## ven

knucklegary said:


> Isn't the message i keep hearing "we're all in this together"
> Sounds pretty simple to me brothers




We sure are brother:grouphug:


----------



## scout24

I'm all for this being a repository for info, opinions, charts, graphs, etc. I'm sure everyone's in agreement with that. I could be wrong but I think a bunch more leeway exists here due to the topic, times we're ALL going through, and Admin leaving it open. CPF rules and decorum should still reign, folks. Nobody here's an expert (with possible rare exception) in what's going on. We're varied in backround, experience, opinion, etc. Please let's keep it civil and respectful.


----------



## SCEMan

Poppy said:


> In part I think that we are all living in different realities.
> Much of it is related to the population density of where we live and work.


 
Very well said.


----------



## bykfixer

No matter where you are on planet earth, common sense techniques can assist quality of life. 
Stewing about things reduces quality of life. 
Pandemic or no pandemic. 

I decided a long time ago that the novel corona is like an evil Santa Clause. It'll get to me sooner or later. Is that dismissive? Irresponsible? I sleep pretty well every night knowing our home is doing everything we know how to do to thwart the spread. 

My state started out with a couple of small dots on a big white map. Blue dots being case locations. It is now a few white dots on a blue map. Some here say "nobody is safe". Ridiculous. No need to trip about it. 

It's the after that concerns me most. Governments love power. Right now they have way more than they should nearly everywhere on planet earth. It's what they do with it after this so called appocolypse with a what time will show an approximate 1 to 2% death rate when the dust settles.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

nbp said:


> Our immune systems are excellent. Your body has been fighting pathogen assaults 24 hours per day since you were born. Practice good hygiene, but 99% of your daily activities are no germier than they were a few weeks ago when you didn’t give it a second thought.



The death and suffering this novel coronavirus has caused is tragic, and not to be ignored, and yet a wider look might be helpful and deserved, given the horrendous hardship this event has place on so much of the world. Let's look back to history. It's so great to see CPF members share their research and experiences, as well as see the full spectrum responses.

Remember the Y2K disaster? That is certainly not the same thing as this pandemic but humans responding to a perceived threat, and some using it for their own reward.

How about the 1970's short-lived law requiring all new cars to have a ignition seatbelt interlock? "It will save lives"

The energy crisis back then also made United States citizens have to slow down to 55 miles per hour on the interstate; saved gas AND lives.

We are looking to see who has credibility, who is uniting us, and who will help us emerge stronger.


----------



## bykfixer

Bravo. 

Remember the Shell comercial reccomending you treat the accelarator like it has an egg under it, and the egg was your best friend? I still appologize to my buddy Eggbert every time I have to "floor it" when driving.


----------



## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Bravo.
> 
> Remember the Shell comercial reccomending you treat the accelarator like it has an egg under it, and the egg was your best friend? I still appologize to my buddy Eggbert every time I have to "floor it" when driving.


Oh man... that's funny as all get out!

When my dad was teaching me to drive he said the same thing to me. "Make believe there is an egg under the gas pedal and you don't want to break it." LOL... Yeah right! I can't say for sure how many years it took, but gradually I started being gentle with the accelerator. So much so, that now, my engine may not see over 2200 RPMs but once a month. I'm the last one off the line, and the last one to the Red traffic light (because when I see it turn Red, I take my foot off of the gas, I may even hit the brake a little so that when it turns green I am still rolling at 20 MPH.) I get 21 MPG in the biggest car on the road highway/City. A Mercury Grand Marquis. 25-26 MPG highway @ 72 MPH. 

Years ago, I was bringing my daughter home from voice instruction and we ran into a highway traffic jam on a limited access highway. This is before the days of cell phones, the only traffic report would have been the AM radio 1010 WINS. My father's favorite radio station... "Give us 22 minutes, we'll give you the world" A news station... ugh! Whenever I'd get into his car the first thing I would do was change the station!

So here we are 20 years later and I am bringing my daughter home, and we run into a traffic jam. What should I do? I don't really know the area, but maybe I should get off of the road, and follow my nose North. If only I knew what the problem was up ahead, I could decide if it was worth hanging in there, or taking an adventurous trip. Oh yeah... turn on 1010 WINS maybe they'll include it in their traffic report.

Eventually the traffic broke up and we were on our way.

3 days later I realized I still had the News on my radio! Oh NOoooo!!! I'm getting more like my old man every day!


----------



## turbodog

Fish 14 said:


> The face mask thing is complete BS, unless it's a n95. The covid virus is .025 micron while the mask only protects to .125 micron. Social distancing does nothing considering a cough, or sneeze can travel 8 feet. And the Corona will live in the air for several minutes. All these guidelines that they are telling us to do are debunk by medical science. If they want to stop this so called"virus" they need to shut the country completely down.



Common misconception about filtering size of n95 masks. Please allow me to debunk... n95 uses mechanical filtering (small passages) to block contaminants as well as an electrostatic charge that attracts the particles too small to filter. Filtering efficiency actually INCREASES as the mask get used, although breathing difficulty gets worse.


----------



## RBR

StarHalo said:


> More quarantine buying:
> 
> A GE fridge...
> 
> More kicks...



Some disinfectants today.

100ml Eau Sauvage after shave from Dior
100ml L´Homme Ideal EDP from Guerlain
700ml 16yo Beast Of Dufftown from Mortlach


----------



## bykfixer

RBR said:


> Some disinfectants today.
> 
> 100ml Eau Sauvage after shave from Dior
> 100ml L´Homme Ideal EDP from Guerlain
> 700ml 16yo Beast Of Dufftown from Mortlach



So my quart sized bottle of Old Spice is disinfectent? 
Cool.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

bykfixer said:


> So my quart sized bottle of Old Spice is disinfectent?
> Cool.



"It's a manly scent, but you'll like it too."


----------



## bykfixer

When I was a kid Hai Karate was everywhere. It had so much alcohol you could use that stuff for lighter fluid.
As a teen that stuff was more of a chick replellent than pimples. Guess that's why they don't sell it anymore?


----------



## StarHalo

The handling of dead bodies during Coronavirus and the Hart Island "mass grave":


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Sounds like the Navajo Nation is becoming a corona virus hotspot and the places they have to get potable water are shutting down. This is a somewhat remote location in the middle of the desert. I would have thought they would get enough U.V. light from sunlight to prevent the spread in their area. This virus is very resilient.


----------



## bykfixer

US Air Force jets saluting hospitals in Vegas recently


----------



## knucklegary

👍 🇺🇸 🇺🇸


----------



## StarHalo

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Sounds like the Navajo Nation is becoming a corona virus hotspot and the places they have to get potable water are shutting down. This is a somewhat remote location in the middle of the desert. I would have thought they would get enough U.V. light from sunlight to prevent the spread in their area. This virus is very resilient.



Most folks on the rez aren't all that healthy, that's a shame; I hope the LifeFlight is taking them to someplace well-equipped..


----------



## Fireclaw18

turbodog said:


> Common misconception about filtering size of n95 masks. Please allow me to debunk... n95 uses mechanical filtering (small passages) to block contaminants as well as an electrostatic charge that attracts the particles too small to filter. Filtering efficiency actually INCREASES as the mask get used, although breathing difficulty gets worse.



Keep in mind that the virus particles ejected when someone coughts or sneezes might not always be by themselves. They may be suspended in tiny droplets of mucus which are big enough to be intercepted by a simple cloth mask.

This won't help the mask wearer to avoid breathing in virus much because unfiltered air will be sucked in around the edges of a non-sealing mask. But if everyone wears a mask, infected exhalations may be intercepted on the way out of a persons lungs. That's why in the press they say cloth masks don't directly protect you from getting the virus, but they do help reduce the chances of giving the virus to someone else.


----------



## bykfixer

I wear a mask around other people just in case I am an aesymptomatic carrier. 
Plus I like John Deere stuff so I wear one cut from a John Deere cloth. 

I posed the question before if anybody knows anybody……well I don't know either of these folks personally but my bosses 67 year old 2nd cousin was released from the hospital today after being on a ventalator for a while. On April 1 they had given up hope. Today she was recovered enough to go home. Apparently she was Pennsylivanias first recorded case. 



Another fellow, a non essential bussiness owner (shoe store) was being interviewed and said his 87 year old grand mother was released yesterday. She got it while in the long care facility in my state that has the most deaths in the US. She didn't return to that one btw. He has remodeled his business to cater to nurses, grocery store workers etc by appointments. 

Speaking of nurses, another non essential business (guitar store) is now the official distributor of home made masks in a nearby community where local residents are making masks by the dozen. They are being distributed to local police, fire and rescue workers. As of today 38,000 had been distributed at no cost to the recipient. Speaking of free masks, wife made nearly two dozen for folks we work with in our essential businesses. Oldest get first pick. They're pre-washed dual layer cotton cloth with a "backing" sandwiched between. No light shows through but they're easy to breath in. 

Globally nearly half a million cases have been deemed recovered (466,997 when I typed this) and in the US nearly 40,000 (38,500).


----------



## coffeecup66

.
On the subject of sneezing, coughing and droplets :


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

2,407 people in the U.S. died today alone from corona virus. That's by far the most deaths we've had reported in a single day in the U.S. or any other nation. We currently have 13,473 people in the U.S. labelled as serious or critical condition. That's nearly double that of Spain (7,371 critical), the country with the next most amount of critical patients. We are far from peaking. I've been hearing about seniors being abandoned in nursing homes and dying as well as other atrocities. Wet markets are being banned, some pork factories are closing due to corona virus infected workers, and many essential workers are striking due to not being provided with proper ppe. A nurse in San Diego county had her medical bag and her silver rings stolen from her car while she was at home. The desperation and fear caused by this pandemic are starting to make people crack. Brace yourselves, this isn't over yet.


----------



## StarHalo

Hooked on Fenix said:


> some pork factories are closing due to corona virus infected workers



Thanks to that Smithfield plant in South Dakota, now we know what happens if you have a warehouse setting like Amazon but don't bother with Coronavirus safety procedures - *350 workers from that one building have tested positive* so far. One business address now comprises 40% of the positive cases in the state. This is as big a red flag as can be provided to those churches that don't feel that lockdown is necessary.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

I wouldn't go that far regarding churches. There is nothing wrong with the ones having services online. There is also nothing wrong with drive in services that have people sealed inside their cars. There is a problem when a state starts fining or arresting people attending a drive in church service. Even the feds said that was blatantly unconstitutional. There are ways of letting people keep their rights to a degree and keeping people safe. Obviously, we can't have a bunch of people crammed inside a church during a pandemic. It's also true that you can't cram a bunch of churchgoers in prison cells to protect them from being crammed together in a church. It kind of defeats the purpose.


----------



## Fish 14

Doctors are starting to come forward and release information about how the CDC instructed them to report false number of Corona deaths. What I mean by this is" if you died in a car accident and tested positive for Corona, you no longer died in a accident, you died from complications related to Corona. So all along the government was lying to us. The real numbers of Corona deaths are far less then what we've been told. REMEMBER FOLKS THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND, THEY ARE THE ENEMY.

https://www.politifact.com/factchec...19-skeptics-say-theres-overcount-doctors-fie/


----------



## Fish 14

I find it a weird coincidence that new York got hit the most considering that PLUM ISLAND is a biologically testing, storage, and manufacturing government facility of deadly virus's right off the coast.
Let that sink in a bit

https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/biology-fields/mystery-myth-reality-plum-island.htm


----------



## bigburly912

Fish 14 said:


> Doctors are starting to come forward and release information about how the CDC instructed them to report false number of Corona deaths. What I mean by this is" if you died in a car accident and tested positive for Corona, you no longer died in a accident, you died from complications related to Corona. So all along the government was lying to us. The real numbers of Corona deaths are far less then what we've been told. REMEMBER FOLKS THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND, THEY ARE THE ENEMY.
> 
> https://www.politifact.com/factchec...19-skeptics-say-theres-overcount-doctors-fie/



I couldn’t believe this was a fact, and I’ve mentioned it in the thread. I’m not sure that the car wreck analogy works great here, surely it doesn’t go to that extent. Also If you are working an ER and have 400 people come in and some of them die of unknown respiratory problems during a pandemic I guess it would just be easier to go ahead and say they died of the pandemic that is going on. It’s still odd that the CDC has recommended reporting a covid death based off a hunch and there is no excuse for it. I’ve seen a few cases of families suing because their loved ones died of something other than covid yet it is on their death certificate.


----------



## bykfixer

With the cdc logic bb my dad died of a head cold. 
His body was failing and there was a race to see which organ failure proved fatal. He was very ill at the end. 

A head cold caused complications that caused his heart to stop. It was listed as heart failure not rino-virus. 

It makes me wonder if the cdc is doing this as a future research tactic or if something else is taking place to boost numbers for some other purpose. Not wanting to go the conspiracy route this AM but will say I do not trust the government be it local, state or federal.


----------



## trailhunter

bykfixer said:


> With the cdc logic bb my dad died of a head cold.
> His body was failing and there was a race to see which organ failure proved fatal. He was very ill at the end.
> 
> A head cold caused complications that caused his heart to stop. It was listed as heart failure not rino-virus.
> 
> It makes me wonder if the cdc is doing this as a future research tactic or if something else is taking place to boost numbers for some other purpose. Not wanting to go the conspiracy route this AM but will say I do not trust the government be it local, state or federal.


Man sorry to hear. Its crazy to hear that a common cold took out the old man.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## bykfixer




----------



## Kestrel

Fish 14 said:


> [...] REMEMBER FOLKS THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND, THEY ARE THE ENEMY.
> 
> https://www.politifact.com/factchec...19-skeptics-say-theres-overcount-doctors-fie/



Two things; one, your citation does not effectively support your list of allegations; and two, while the first part of your shout is in a grey area, the second is not - take it to the CPF Underground.
Final notice.


----------



## Fish 14

bigburly912 said:


> I couldn’t believe this was a fact, and I’ve mentioned it in the thread. I’m not sure that the car wreck analogy works great here, surely it doesn’t go to that extent. Also If you are working an ER and have 400 people come in and some of them die of unknown respiratory problems during a pandemic I guess it would just be easier to go ahead and say they died of the pandemic that is going on. It’s still odd that the CDC has recommended reporting a covid death based off a hunch and there is no excuse for it. I’ve seen a few cases of families suing because their loved ones died of something other than covid yet it is on their death certificate.


Ya, the car wreck analogy is a bit of a stretch. But that's all it was an"analogy" but that doesn't deter from the fact that the numbers of covid death are now tainted with false information. Everyone thinks that we've got our peak and the numbers are on the decline, but that's not true. They cannot use the previous counting protocol anymore. The numbers we see over the next few weeks will be the real numbers. And it's going to be far less than what is has been.


----------



## Fish 14

Kestrel said:


> Two things; one, your citation does not effectively support your list of allegations; and two, while the first part of your shout is in a grey area, the second is not - take it to the CPF Underground.
> Final notice.


[emoji106] got it bud.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

StarHalo said:


> The handling of dead bodies during Coronavirus and the Hart Island "mass grave":
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLl5yikUKfk



Thank you for this video. Information without the propaganda and slant.


----------



## RBR

Restrictional update for Germany is out now and valid until further notice.

Key points are:

Small shops up to 800 square meters, all book stores and mobility dealers/repairs (cars, bikes...) are allowed to re-open from 04.20.20, next Monday.

Schools, bars, restaurants...stay closed at least until May third.

Larger events such as concerts, festivals, football matches with audience...to stay prohibited at least until August.

All other regulations, especially those regarding social distancing stay valid.

Short hours „0“ to end for me next Monday too...:sick2:

Cheers 

RBR


----------



## StarHalo

Got my stimulus check today; it was direct deposit and not in paper form, so there was no need to edit the memo section of the check. 



Hooked on Fenix said:


> I wouldn't go that far regarding churches. There is nothing wrong with the ones having services online.



I'm referring specifically to the ones still holding standard indoor congregations in person; the churches doing it safely should not only continue doing so but should expand their services in that direction, there's probably a lot of people right now who could use the communal help. 



RBR said:


> Small shops up to 800 square meters, all book stores and mobility dealers/repairs (cars, bikes...) are allowed to re-open from 04.20.20, next Monday.



That's odd, you're more likely to have to stand closer to people in small shoppes, and they're less likely to follow safety rules. Our car service places were only closed for roughly the first week and have been open since. 



bykfixer said:


> (ConcernForElderly.jpg)



Now that is funny!


----------



## bykfixer

My governor just announced things will begin to relax May 8. 

He elluded to masks being part of the scenery for a while. He used the term "new normal", which probably has a lot of folks wondering what that means. I envision a 500 person capacity Golden Corral being held to 100, bars that could hold 250 being held to 100. Firing ranges held to 50% capacity, stuff like that. 

Irony is if I went to Wal Mart to buy Mrs Fixer a valentines gift with a mask on they'd boot me out. If I go there for a Mothers Day gift without one I may get booted out.


----------



## knucklegary

Our Gub said same "new normal" things such as restaurant tables being set 6ft apart and throw away menues.. What he did not mention are events like our State Fairs could possibly be a thing of the past, at least for 2020 anyway


----------



## Fish 14

Y'all are lucky you're states are getting ready to relax, my gov is planning on extended the shelter in place order, it's complete nonsense


----------



## StarHalo

That's interesting that if you look at the trend history of the term "new normal", it logically jumps up in the middle of last month:





..but then if you look at why it's as high as it is now, it's just the most rural outlying areas that are only now searching the term:





*We're so divided in our approach to this pandemic that we don't even use the same words at the same time when speaking of it.*


----------



## scout24

StarHalo- Why would you have had to edit the memo section of your stimulus check?


----------



## bykfixer

We were all bracing for ours to extend it from June to August Fish. This morning on the radio his health director said and I quote "we're seeing models out of China saying we will have a spike in August". But the governor surprised us by not doing that. 
He has certain areas closed until June 10 and had a stay at home order expiring next week. He extended that for two more weeks. But being we are still getting about a 10% rise each day it aint such a bad idea to most I've talked to. We are on the right side of the curve now about a week ahead of schedule. But most are cautious and rightly so in my view. We were all breathing a sigh of relief when he did not extend business closures until August. 

Another surprise is the new charts and graphs show affected areas by categories. What I mean there is it shows cases in places like schools, long care facilities etc and gives a better breakdown of regions. I had been following regions through news accounts but the new graphs make it easy to see where it spreads the most. Heavily populated areas of course. 

Another surprise in my state anyway is that women have been affected a lot more than men. I surmize that to mean nurses. Don't know about other places but most of my state has way more female nurses than male. Same with teachers who according to the numbers here have been hit pretty hard too. Schools have been closed for a while now yet teachers are still getting it a lot. Perhaps they reported to the building after the kids were sent home? 

We're just glad to see the light at the end of the tunnel isn't the corona-19 express. I hope this post did not come off as political 'cause I sure didn't mean for it to.


----------



## StarHalo

scout24 said:


> StarHalo- Why would you have had to edit the memo section of your stimulus check?



To remove superfluous data not related to the check or payment process itself, as only a civil servant can be an authorized signer for disbursements issued by the Treasury Department to ensure that government payments are nonpartisan.

In other news; TAKE THAT, ESTABLISHMENT:


----------



## Fish 14

@fixer, it just sucks for us business owners for the stay at home order to be extended. I've had my shop closed for the past 3 weeks and my workers are all in paid leave as of now. I just don't know how much longer I can afford to keep paying my staff. I am not receiving any government aid because I don't want to have to pay the taxes next year.


----------



## RedLED

Fish 14 said:


> Y'all are lucky you're states are getting ready to relax, my gov is planning on extended the shelter in place order, it's complete nonsense


What state are you in, Chief?


----------



## Fish 14

RedLED said:


> What state are you in, Chief?


Illinois. South East just west of Indiana boarder


----------



## scout24

StarHalo- Sec. Mnuchin said if you really want to pursue the triggered moral high ground you can contact the treasury for instructions on how to return the money. You just can't help yourself, can you?


----------



## bykfixer

trailhunter said:


> Man sorry to hear. Its crazy to hear that a common cold took out the old man.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk



Thanx TH. I did not see this earlier. My pop was given 90 days to live after a konk on the head ended up causing his blood thinner to become an issue on his brain. His system was such that he was on max 1500ml a day liquid intake but in order to dilute the thinner they had to dump around 5000 ml of plasma in his body so the bleeding on his brain would clot. That resulted in them putting him on a ventalator and inducing a coma so he'd stop trying to rip out the breathing tube. Man talk about scarey. I watched him go from laying in a hospital bed looking pretty normal to gasping for air in just a few hours. But the folks at MCV kept assuring me they had it under control. They shoo'd me away at midnight. Next morning he was being kept alive by a machine. 

2 months later he was out in his garage showing me his antique rifles from the two world wars. He was pretty fragile but managed to hang in there for nearly 3 more years. Every Sunday I cooked him a steak to celebrate another week. Then one morning he woke up with the sniffles. I gave him a light dose of Benadryl. He was better by lunch time but that night post nasal drip had him all screwed up. He spent a month in the hospital and went back home. He decided at 2am to carry a 2 litre bottle of diet soda and a bag of Fritos with his walker and stumbled. He broke his arm. He eventually healed again but one day a nurse came to over to give him a new breathing treatment apperatus. Unfortunatly the nurse had a cold. A few days later my pop was back in the ER from post nasal drip issues and he never returned home. 
It caught us by surprise because that tough old dude had recovered from much worse. But we figured when your number gets plucked in the big lottery in the sky, that's that. 
His heart stopped beating one Sunday morning while he took his 10:00 nap.


----------



## wacbzz

I’ll put it it in the UG...


----------



## StarHalo

scout24 said:


> you really want to pursue the triggered moral high ground



And the admin said attack the posts and not the poster. I would take that advice over anything provided by Mr. Mnuchin.


----------



## scout24

Your post was back door smarmy political after seeing staff ask repeatedly to keep politics out of this thread. You knew exactly what you were posting.


----------



## StarHalo

scout24 said:


> Your post was back door smarmy political after seeing staff ask repeatedly to keep politics out of this thread. You knew exactly what you were posting.



The post clearly outlines that the paper check in its current state does not follow division of powers as outlined by Congress/the founding of the Treasury. Your representatives created this arrangement so that no government official could represent a payment as being tendered in their name or cause, it is a non-partisan funding and taxation transaction.


----------



## scout24

Yet your posts regarding your stimulus payment dove directly into political theatre. If you don't approve of the way it's made out, return it. Your thoughts and opinions about what's in the memo section have what relevance to this thread?


----------



## StarHalo

scout24 said:


> Yet your posts regarding your stimulus payment dove directly into political theatre. If you don't approve of the way it's made out, return it. Your thoughts and opinions about what's in the memo section have what relevance to this thread?



I received a deposit regarding the current Coronavirus pandemic, so I get to do the review on it, the place to do that would be the Coronavirus thread. If there's a separation of powers issue with it, I'm going to point that out. Just as a squad of police officers taking the firearms out of your house would not be a "political issue", receiving a non-partisan Treasury note with a non-Treasury official's name on it is also not a mere party concern. If I were to address it politically, I would do so in response to someone else's partisan take on it, as I've done with Greta in the UG. The dialog here is concerning division of powers within the government.


----------



## scout24

I go back: If you have issue, don't take the money. My response to you wasn't my partisan take, that was your attempt to inject your personal politics into the discussion. Seperation of powers? Could you tell me who signed the stimulus bill into law? Might I ask your qualifications to decide a seperation of powers issue? Do you get to do your review of a check you admit to not seeing irrespective of what staff has -repeatedly- asked for here? And how is dialog here (other than yours) about division of power in gov't? I thought it was about the Corona virus...


----------



## bykfixer




----------



## StarHalo

scout24 said:


> I go back: If you have issue, don't take the money.



And if the police took your guns, you would not then tell them that you would no longer use their services. 



scout24 said:


> My response to you wasn't my partisan take



The term you used was "triggered", which is a partisan insult; you're obviously just picking up the bullying where Nbp left off, and I'm telling you the same thing I told him, that I can't help you.


----------



## scout24

It's not a partisan insult, I use it when apropos regardless of political leanings. Worst you can accuse me of is it being a generational poke in the ribs. Is your skin really that thin? Your gun argument isn't germane to our discussion, and is an assumption of what I do or do not own. Could you answer the rest of my questions now?


----------



## scout24

And if you're accusing two seperate staff members from wildly disparate backrounds, geographical locations, age, and socio-economic backrounds of "bullying" in response to your repeated postings here, you may want to take a look at what you've been posting not their response to it.


----------



## bigburly912

I want to attack a post not a person!! That may literally be the first time I’ve ever seen a post call another post a bully on an Internet forum. (If that’s what was said, I see it’s in quotes) I have no words. These posts are ridiculous sometimes. Maybe that post just wants to play victim as much as possible for whatever reason. 

In covid related news I can still throw around some weight! Actually got to work out a little and it went decently. My elbow isn’t as bad as I thought.


----------



## Johnnyh

Mmmmm...bat...tastes like chicken!


----------



## Poppy

StarHalo said:


> And if the police took your guns, you would not then tell them that you would no longer use their services.


And if the police gave me a $1200 gun, I'd say... Thank you very much! 
Would you like to engrave a memo on it?


----------



## bykfixer

^^This!!!

Unless it said "Monopoly Money" I'm cool wit it.


----------



## bykfixer

Johnnyh said:


> Mmmmm...bat...tastes like chicken!


Lol (Ed McMahon voice) "good one Johnny"


----------



## bigburly912

^^^ that’s hilarious


----------



## RedLED

StarHalo, 

You can can use our Beverly Hills Home to entertain AOC, she certainly would like that. I'm running out of locations!


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> StarHalo,
> 
> You can can use our Beverly Hills Home to entertain AOC, she certainly would like that. I'm running out of locations!



They'll just accuse you of providing a "safe space".

Did you get out with your camera today? I walked around with the Bigma most of the day, totally worth it..


----------



## RedLED

Star,

No, however, this is the longest down time I have had since summer vacations so I am enjoying it. With that said all my corporate gigs are cancelled, and I have no idea if they will reschedule if not for a while. Journalism does not pay much but it is fun and interesting. I may have go back to quinceneras (SP), like 29 years ago.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Wood you guys get back on topic instead of picking at each other. Never seen so many Rule 4's and rule 8 violations since becoming a mod. 

Bill


----------



## RedLED

How is it off topic if it involves down time, and loss of work? Just asking.


----------



## RedLED

Star,

No, however, this is the longest down time I have had since summer vacations so I am enjoying it. With that said all my corporate gigs are cancelled, and I have no idea if they will reschedule if not for a while. Journalism does not pay much but it is fun and interesting. I may have go back to quinceneras (SP), like 29 years ago.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Oh wow! Déjà vu.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> I may have go back to quinceneras (SP), like 29 years ago.



I ain't shootin' groups now; but when it's 80 and sunny, time to get the gear out, get around the neighborhood, gather building materials like this guy today:


----------



## ven

Cool shot star!

Well reports are the north west UK will be a slower peak over the next few weeks, not as steep as predicted. 2500 first predicted ventilators has been reduced to an estimated 500. How they work this out, i dont know.

Mean while another young chap in work, his parents tested positive so he is off for 2 weeks. This guy i was winding up(as you do) last week.........guess i will find out how effective these masks, distancing and hand washing is! 

One day at a time, stay safe guys


----------



## StarHalo

ven said:


> Well reports are the north west UK will be a slower peak over the next few weeks, not as steep as predicted. 2500 first predicted ventilators has been reduced to an estimated 500. How they work this out, i dont know.



At least you guys are still staying strong with the testing, we're actually down from a peak that was significantly lower than what was promised. And now they're promising it'll rain ventilators next..


----------



## ven

Honestly star, awesome NHS and other front line heroes aside, our country is an embarrassment . From not listening to advice, from still not getting front line staff tested(yet MPs daughters who are not front line have been). From a few year back , cheering in the Houses of Parliament when the 1% pay rise was voted against. 

We still don’t have enough testing, there are still nurses working without correct PPE(our company actually donated lots of PPE the other week locally). There are still nurses catching covid19 and passing away from it. Over 30 now!. Words and certainly on a family forum can not express my disgust in how it’s been handled . Yes I am not a fan of our government in anyway. Will leave that there. 
Many small businesses are still out of pocket , a very small % have been helped so far. 
I think it’s too early to start looking at reducing measures, in fact I would not be changing anything until a vaccine was available. It won’t take much to kick this all off again, after all, it only takes 1, then 3, then 9.........

I can see the social distancing staying for a while, heck who knows maybe the rest of 2020. If a vaccine is available from September, it’s how long it takes to get out there. We don’t know fully if we can catch this again, there are reports some have. How true or not, don’t know, but it is a concern! 

I really feel for small businesses / self employed out there, just hope help gets to them sooner than later. All these promises come true! 

Stay safe


----------



## bykfixer

I took this with a scratched to death lens on Easter morning. 
When Nikon discontinued an f2.8 35-70 lens a while back they were commanding up to $1000 for new ones on eBay. They had been around $400. A friend of mine in Seattle had one laying around for magazine shoots but said "it's ruined with scratches at both ends, want it pay the postage". Cool. 

I used it for modeling shots for a while because it created a soft glow like you used to see in scenes in the show Dynasty where those wrinkled up women always looked so young and vibrant. Made great still life effects too. 

A fellow in Durham NC had a broken one with good glass and sold me the glass for $50. He showed me how to replace the glass too. So for this one it had a good glass up front and scratched on the rear. I used a 6200k flashlight to back light it. My Nikon 7000 with a Manfroto macro friendly tripod was used. My neighbor who grew the flower asked for copies when I was done so I emailed her a full res jpeg of all I took that day. She said they'll be used for a life during corona pandemic calendar.


----------



## ven

Awesome mr fixer, its like mr fixer can fix anything! :thumbsup:


----------



## Greta

And now for something a little different... but still on topic: Sent to me by Cyclops942

https://amgreatness.com/2020/04/13/can-we-trust-the-experts/

Pay special attention to the topic "Expert Myopia" - I promise you won't be disappointed


----------



## StarHalo

Greta said:


> Pay special attention to the topic "Expert Myopia" - I promise you won't be disappointed



Right, the other countries followed the experts and we didn't. So what was the result?


----------



## Greta

StarHalo said:


> Right, the other countries followed the experts and we didn't. So what was the result?



:shakehead And this is why no one really takes you seriously. 'Cuz obviously you completely missed the reason I posted the link. :sigh:


----------



## StarHalo

Greta said:


> :shakehead And this is why no one really takes you seriously. 'Cuz obviously you completely missed the reason I posted the link. :sigh:



You posted the link to point out that experts are unreliable holistically because they only give you information from their respective fields; I responded by pointing out that we generally ignored the medical field's warnings about needing to be proactive and to flatten the curve early, which is evident in our unique lack of a national response. The result is that we now have significantly more cases and deaths than any other country. 

I would point out that your article makes the case that human life is not the ultimate goal of recovering from a pandemic, that other business factors may take precedence.


----------



## Greta

StarHalo said:


> You posted the link to point out that experts are unreliable holistically because they only give you information from their respective fields; I responded by pointing out that we generally ignored the medical field's warnings about needing to be proactive and to flatten the curve early, which is evident in our unique lack of a national response. The result is that we now have significantly more cases and deaths than any other country.
> 
> I would point out that your article makes the case that human life is not the ultimate goal of recovering from a pandemic, that other business factors may take precedence.



Not even close. Might wanna pay closer attention and actually read the part I referenced. Let me know when you get it.


----------



## StarHalo

Greta said:


> Not even close. Might wanna pay closer attention and actually read the part I referenced. Let me know when you get it.



I can see that there's a link to CPF there, but I'm not sure we should be flattered to be included, is all.


----------



## Greta

StarHalo said:


> I can see that there's a link to CPF there, but I'm not sure we should be flattered to be included, is all.



I'm VERY flattered! Because it proves the whole point of the entire article: 

[FONT=&quot]"Everyone knows a lot about his own little corner of the world."[/FONT]

CPF is a great example of how people can be experts in all kinds of different things... even flashlights! But just because you're an expert in flashlights doesn't mean you know squat about infectious diseases or running a first world country. I'm very proud of our little corner of the world here on CPF. But I also know that there are a lot of people in the world who just look at it and can't even begin to wrap their head around "an expert in flashlights". You can substitute any word you want for the word "flashlights". You'll still get the same reaction from a large amount of the population.


----------



## bykfixer

Everybody goofed early on. Eh-vir-ee-bod-ee. Not one side, not the other. Not the in between. Every Body goofed up in December. Nobody stopped traveling when it was known to exist way back then. By mid January it was too late by the time anybody tried to stop it. 

China goofed up, America goofed up, the entire world goofed up. Plain and simple, just like with the great pandemic of 1917.

Here we are a few months later and none of the long term models are coming true. The noise from the sky is falling crowd is now being drowned out now with the sounds of the people chanting "we the people want liberty back". Like it or not the masses are speaking loudly. The masses who volunteered to stay at home, avoid each other as much as possible, even let the gubment stop barbecues and birthday parties because the "experts" said it was best. Those same experts who told us in February "our models say nothing to fear folks".


----------



## Fish 14

New information was released saying that China worked in correlation with the WHO to create a virus just to show the USA that China was better at creating vaccines than the US was.


----------



## Kestrel

Fish 14 said:


> New information was released saying that China worked in correlation with the WHO to create a virus just to show the USA that China was better at creating vaccines than the US was.


A couple issues here;

One, stating something of this magnitude without even including a reference ("new information was released", what a joke) goes exactly against what I have been trying to communicate previously.

Two, after acknowledging my prior warning via quote, it was then blatantly disregarded with such a farcical inflammatory statement. (If you didn't want it to appear farcical, you could have at least included a reference - hopefully a media source more reliable than Infowars, just to come up with a random example).

Please be so kind as to take some time out from this thread; thank you & best regards.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner




----------



## bigburly912

Disregard misread post


----------



## scout24

StarHalo said:


> Right, the other countries followed the experts and we didn't. So what was the result?



Other countries aren't the entitled masses that we are here. We, at the national and state gov't level, were as proactive as anywhere else. As a people, by and large, we have walked around with our fingers in the air saying "nobody gonna tell me what I can and can't do." The numbers we see here have nothing to do with lack of information or upper level policy. Shy of National Guard in the streets, everything is based on voluntary compliance. Everybody knew it was bad. We have, and expect, a level of freedom here in the US that other areas of the world may not. Look at our hotspot areas, look at the prevailing attitudes there.


----------



## Kestrel

One of the reasons why there has been so much staff attention to this thread, is that we take the reliability of information posted here on CPF very seriously - we pride ourselves in the quality of the content on this forum.
One of the challenges of online forums where membership contributes content, is that it can often be a challenge to maintain this high standard with such a fluid- and hot-button- topic such as CV19.
Many other online forums are currently running their own CV threads, with varying degrees of success - depending on their conversation goals.
My personal hope is that this can be a reliable venue for the exchange of *high-quality* technical (CPF in general) & add'l health infomation (this thread in particular); I believe that we are generally successful in this goal, although there are always bumps in the road that we as members need to intelligently parse.

A final note; I have recently rec'd an inquiry as to why some blatantly-inflammatory posts have been allowed to stand while others have been deleted. Please keep in mind that CPF staff (including yours truly ) are given some leeway for their individual perspectives on how to moderate the discussion forums; one thing that I do _on occasion_ is to utilize a problematic post to illustrate what is not acceptable for the discussion forums in which most of us enjoy polite and constructive discussion. There are certainly other just-as-valid perspectives on how to go about this, and all have have merit for ongoing operations. Thank you everybody for your understanding,


----------



## bykfixer

Nuf said CG. 

I thought earlier that sooner or later the "Chinese lab" story would arrive in this thread but right now it's all just conjecture. So n so heard that so n so who knows a guy who's uncles third cousins best friends daughter knows the guy. Way too soon to call it anything more than a rumor. 

Even Cuomo is speaking of relaxing things in a few weeks (May 15th). An MIT study suggests that crowded busses and subways contributed to the vast spread of the novel corona virus? Who'da thunk that? lol. https://nypost.com/2020/04/15/mit-study-subways-a-major-disseminator-of-coronavirus-in-nyc/

Edit: 
Thanks Kestrel for explaining your perspective on this. And thanks to Scout, Greta, Archi, NBP and others for keeping this thing on the rails.


----------



## ven

I was going to say CG, considering the population of the US, the graph mr star posted in 1333 is very misleading. It makes it look like the US is far worse than other countries, due to the greater population. Granted the curve is steeper, but for example, compared to the UK, there is 66 million V 330 million , is around 5 X the population. I know its not a perfect calculation, maybe the US do have unfortunately a few more death %. But in context, its around the same as other countries(bar ones not actually giving real figures). 

So realistically in my tiny brain, the US is doing no better, or worse with covid19 from a good few other countries, from what i have been reading/ understanding.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

I read that COVID19 is very unforgiving on obese people. The US of A has more than it's fair share of overweight people.


----------



## StarHalo

scout24 said:


> We, at the national and state gov't level, were as proactive as anywhere else.



The other nations enacted national plans, we did not, full stop.


----------



## bykfixer

Good points Ven. 

I predicted a while back it would be between 1.2 and 1.4% fatality rate. Pure gut instinct from calculating numbers back in early March. Time will tell. Hopefully it'll be less than that. 

Meanwhile a few dozen meters to my left a young couple is fist fighting because dude dropped the french fries he and his lady friend were sharing.

I suppose one certain poster in this thread just does not understand how America works.

How many locked up folks end up suicidal? Hooked on dope or alcohol? End up fataly wounded in domestic disputes? End up die-ing from the flu or other health condition because they were afraid to go to a doctor or hospital due to panic driven news accounts? 

And yes CG studies are showing vast numbers are of obese folks end up hospitalized from covid. I'll find data about it and post it later, but it is believed why some groups are having worse affects.


----------



## knucklegary

Good article Greta.. especially last paragraph!


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


>



Thanks Chance.
This graphic depicts useful data correlated to country population size. The outlier here is China, and recent AP reporting (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...sponse-coronavirus-shows-missteps/5138308002/) details their plan to conceal the outbreak. By halting domestic but not international travel, and the ability to quarantine their population with draconian measures accounts for their low numbers at the expense of the rest of the world.


----------



## bigburly912

Just wanted to throw a real world update. My dads high school buddy that had covid has passed away. 

My friends mom has been taken out of ICU and is recovering. 🙂


----------



## knucklegary

Ven, since your co-worker is out with covid are you in line to be tested?


----------



## Poppy

Chauncey Gardiner said:


>


Chauncey,
Thanks for this!

Much can be said about how population density can affect the number of cases of this virus.
The USA has a huge land mass, and large portions of it are virtually uninhabited. Although we have a population of 329 million, for the most part the coasts and metropolitan cities comprise a large percentage of the population therefore overall the US population density is 94 per square mile, but NYC density is 67,000 per square mile. In comparison:
UK 1,010 per square mile,
Italy 532 per square mile
Spain 229 per square mile.

The higher the density, the more difficult it is to contain.
So despite having a higher population density than Italy and Spain, the US and UK are doing better than them.

Whereas for example, our State of Arkansas, has a pop density of only 52 per square mile. They are encouraged to go about their business, wear a mask and keep their distance. I think it was yesterday that they had a count of 80 confirmed cases.


----------



## ven

knucklegary said:


> Ven, since your co-worker is out with covid are you in line to be tested?



No gary, does not work like that in the UK, unless your an MP's daughter................i just checked and nope:nana:

The only way i will get tested is 2 ways, Unilever decide to buy some testers, after front line get priority. Or i fall ill enough to end up in hospital, then i would possibly get tested...........possibly. So no idea, how do i know the rough spell i had a while back was not it. Who knows if they have had it, maybe had symptoms but thought the usual winter blues stuff. As there are so many variables, so much misinformation and lack of information out there...........who knows?

Stay safe bro and all CPF


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Also worth noting is Italian's long held tradition of La Passeggiata.


----------



## bigburly912

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Also worth noting is Italian's long held tradition of La Passeggiata.



surely they arent still practicing are they?


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

bigburly912 said:


> surely they arent still practicing are they?


 
I don't know. ....... wouldn't think so. :shakehead


----------



## knucklegary

I would think they're all hanging at home drinking plenty vino and singing..


----------



## Dave D

Poppy said:


> The higher the density, the more difficult it is to contain.
> So despite having a higher population density than Italy and Spain, the US and UK are doing better than them.



Don't forget that the U.S.A. is several weeks behind Italy and Spain, so it’s not a direct comparison yet.


----------



## scout24

Let's remember the U.S. has individual states, with State's Rights as well. A national plan has merit when you enjoy less individual freedom than we do here. See: Michigan protest. See also: NYS Governor Cuomo saying "We'll do what we want." Try that as a prefecture in China, a county in Ireland, etc. Despite best efforts to spin, you cannot have it both ways. Not quite full stop.


----------



## StarHalo

Just in from Dr. Oz:






Lots of posts here are comfortable with the idea of "getting back to work" and that those who lost/will lose their lives in this were "probably just going to die anyway" - that level of comfort with collateral damage means discussion of acceptable child mortality is now on the table.


----------



## bykfixer

Child mortality rate? 

I thought this thing kills 60+ year olds. Is this idea of squashing the public gotten so badly unpopular that we have to turn it into one of those "it's for the children" things? C'mon man. Really?


----------



## BVH

What is the full context of the Oz exchange above? I'd guess there's more to it.


----------



## StarHalo

BVH said:


> What is the full context of the Oz exchange above? I'd guess there's more to it.



Oz is citing a Lancet article that estimates a 2-3% rise in mortality overall if schools are opened, not just specifically kids. Only a few would be kids, the rest of the thousands of deaths would be among those "probably going to die" already accepted here.


----------



## knucklegary

Star.. Now I feel much better knowing my little grandson nose picker will be my demise :sick2:


----------



## nbp

I think with no logical end in sight people’s fears of the realities of being out of work for the forseeable future are quickly outpacing their fears of the illness. With 22 million out of work and millions more on reduced income I think the loss of health Insurance and associated benefits, homes, and money to pay bills, buy food, etc. is a very pressing concern. Going hungry or dying of another illness you can’t buy your medicine for because you don’t have a job is just trading one set of health problems and deaths for another. I don’t think people want to “just get back to work” out of boredom or a desire for normalcy; they need to work to survive. The PPP aspect of the CARES Act is already maxed out in less than two weeks and unemployment can’t keep up. It’s not a desire to hurt others that causes people to want to go back to work, but a desire to keep their own family alive in the process.


----------



## Greta

BVH said:


> What is the full context of the Oz exchange above? I'd guess there's more to it.



This is the full context: 



> DR OZ: "Schools are a very appetizing opportunity. I just saw a nice piece in The Lancet arguing the opening of schools may only cost us 2 to 3%, in terms of total mortality. Any, you know, any life is a life lost, but ... that might be a tradeoff some folks would consider."



Note he doesn't say 2-3% of _children_. And also, he does not say he supports it. 

Edit added: It took me less than 10 seconds to find this information and to "fact check" the assertion Star Halo made above... and debunk it. 

People... please do your fact checking before posting.


----------



## bykfixer

The arguments put forth by a few are being drowned out by the masses. I can't buy paint? Tomato seeds? I can't go to my job because the government says it's non essential? Same government who can buy tomato seeds, or paint or get a haircut. Same government who's benefits and pay have not been affected. Same government who determines how much they'll "give me" for staying at home when I could "earn" way more, and actually was in February. That's the chorus drowning out the "but but but you might die" argument. 

I know a slew of parents right now who would probably be ok if little Johnnie or Jane went back to school right now. I know a ton of kids who are saying "please let me return to school" or "please let me walk across a stage on graduation night" only to be told by their government "you cannot think for yourself, you cannot help youself avoid the spread, we know what's good for you".
America is getting a real good dose of what a socialist government would be like and they're saying "no thank you". Meanwhile fence sitters toss out facts and figures to promote a dictatorial process "for the good of society". Uh huh. 

Power corrupts. Always has, always will.

My governor held a press conference yesterday with a nice fresh haircut. Bad idea bro. Now had he been on stage with 5 o'clock shadow and ramshackled hair he might have come off a little more appealing to those hurting right now. Today protest #1 occured at the capital. Lots of people who aint had a haircut since he closed barber shops. Ironically was that about 1/3 of the crowd were nurses from a large prominent hospital a block or two away. 

I see numbers rising faster than I'm comfortable with in my state right now. But cannot understand why the dentist is closed. He/she wore a mask long before this. Why can't I buy a pair of haircut scissors from a beauty supply store? Yet one of the dirtiest, filthiest things mankind invented called cash is being accepted everywhere. Why? Because plastic carries corona virus.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

The general conclusion is school closures may not play a significant role in controlling the spread of COVID-19. Russell Viner, from University College London and corresponding author on the new study, says looking at the SARS epidemic, school closures seemed to have little effect on stemming transmission. And, homing in more specifically on our current pandemic, the nature of this novel coronavirus suggests children may not be major drivers of community transmission.

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/coronavirus-school-closures-how-long-when-reopen/

Of course, other experts disagree


----------



## KITROBASKIN

From the same article:

School closures during the 2014–16 Ebola epidemic increased dropouts, child labor, violence against children, teen pregnancies, and persisting socioeconomic and gender disparities,” the pair write in the correspondence. “Access to distance learning through digital technologies is highly unequal, and subsidized meal programs, vaccination clinics, and school nurses are essential to child health care, especially for marginalized communities. Schools provide safeguarding and supervision, and closures increase the economic burden of families using day care or their reliance on vulnerable older relatives. Working parents might leave children unsupervised or forgo employment to stay at home with them.”


----------



## bykfixer

Not to mention good old socialization KB. Humans are gregarious by nature. 
(fond of company, sociable. Source: dictionary.com)


----------



## bigburly912

I was once tasked with watching some mini ponies/sheep/goats and a mule that almost killed me. Those guys didn’t know me from Adam but I fed them every morning and corralled them every evening. All they knew was that I fed them and they followed me blindly without question. I told them what to do where to go when to eat. That’s about all I want to say. It took little convincing that the authority of someone they just met was best for them.


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Yeah it's really something to see a member posting accusations regarding some of us as being insensitive to the death, suffering and loss going on in the world, yet not so many posts back, the same author made bragging posts about getting a new fancy refrigerator and how much money they made off of their stock holdings in a company that is reaping a windfall of money, taking away from our local small businesses who are forced to not work because they are not considered essential, even though they could do business with social distancing.

Fixer,
I am in education. My child is regressing academically; he is not really learning meaningful social skills; and also importantly, he is not being exposed to the natural environment of 'germ spreading' that helps to keep all of humanity healthy. Do you think we are going to see an even higher rate of industrialized-nation allergies and sensitivities in our children as a result of this situation?

The lockdown seems to be working in general, hopefully we can begin to get back to allowing more people to "keep their own family alive in the process". Prayers to all who have lost their lives, and their suffering families.


----------



## StarHalo

KITROBASKIN said:


> Yeah it's really something to see a member posting accusations regarding some of us as being insensitive to the death, suffering and loss going on in the world, yet not so many posts back, the same author made bragging posts about getting a new fancy refrigerator and how much money they made off of their stock holdings in a company that is reaping a windfall of money, taking away from our local small businesses who are forced to not work because they are not considered essential, even though they could do business with social distancing.



Ah, this is a new one - so you're saying that I'm one of the bad people because I continued working, helping to get shipments to people stuck in their homes?


----------



## bigburly912

Kit- I was called a bigot for making a joke about CNN (I dislike all “big news” equally). So it doesnt surprise me. Some people thrive off playing victim.


----------



## Johnnyh

It is worth considering that a destroyed economy leaving millions of people unemployed might kill more people than this virus ever could. A “prominent Statesman” tried to express this a few weeks ago when he said “The cure can’t be worse than the disease”. Of course, he was swiftly denounced as “only interested in money”. 

Part of the article shared by Greta stated: “...the statesmen must be concerned with the common good as a whole, not merely physical health, the economy, or national defense. He cannot elevate any one of these particular goods to the point that it eclipses all of the other things that make up the common good.” So true!


----------



## bykfixer

Yes KB, as we isolate more and more we don't get needed bad things that strengthen our immune systems. 

Amazon didn't help me one bit. UPS did, so did Fed-Ex and RL Carriers. Food Lion and Wal Mart trucks helped too. McClane Foods, CVS, Target, Petco, Simple Shoes, and a bunch of other companies made sure I got what I needed or wanted. My community too. 

My project is one where we are improving a through route from point a to point b of an Amazon warehouse and we have noticed Prime trucks are like honest politicians lately. ie rare indeed. People actually ask "where's all those Amazon trucks lately?" We see more Frito Lay trucks than Amazon trucks during this pandemic. So perhaps the big A has been a big help in some areas it sure aint been in my part of the planet. 

Meanwhile my shiney new fridge came from a small local business deemed unessential. Good thing I bought it last year. Yup something goes wrong and somebody from there pops in my place and solves the issue or brings me a new one if they can't.


----------



## flashy bazook

COVID-19 emergency in the US starting to wind down.

Some good news on testing remdesevir. Study from Chicago.

I tried to find a story about this but google news refuses to provide any.

Caught a whiff of this by trying to track down why stock-market futures up after market close today.

But also federal government issuing new guidelines allowing states to open up in a phased way (3 phases, provided certain milestones in terms of declining cases/deaths are passed, and moves between phases allowed provided no backtracking).

Important state-by-state map shown indicating significant drops in cases in most states, of course some hot-spots persist.

The map shown in this forum earlier on per-capita cases by Chauncey Gardiner clearly shows how much better the US has done relative to almost all other countries. And medical care has also been superior here, in my opinion.

The famous NHS (national health service) in the UK, that everyone tells us how much better it is than our US health care system, has one ventilator for every five we have here per person. Their typical way of treating people is to ignore them (I have relatives there and they are almost never able to be admitted or even be seen and treated whenever they have a problem, admittedly they are young and haven't had huge trouble, but sometimes they did have serious trouble).

And one other thing about the map showing many more cases in the US. Well, please add up all those cases in individual countries in Europe, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, UK.,... The US is a continental country, you need to compare it with the total of Europe (US about 330m people, Europe perhaps 400 m depending on definition).

A few of the bigger European countries alone total more cases than the US, and way more deaths.

Really, those of us living in this country, the US, sometimes forget how lucky we are, and I speak as someone who has lived and traveled in many countries around the world.


----------



## SCEMan

bykfixer said:


> I know a slew of parents right now who would probably be ok if little Johnnie or Jane went back to school right now.



Probably not those whose grandparents watch their kids while they work (like me).


----------



## bykfixer

I was lucky to have that option SCE. But my kids still socialized with neighbor kids, ate dirt, drank from water hoses and left skin on asphalt. Yet they always liked school too. I see your point though. Took me a few ticks, but I understand what you mean and agree. 

Flashy, the three tier thing sounds pretty reasonable. I hope they can come up with enough quick tests to let folks go back to visiting loved ones in rest homes soon. My heart sank when they said those folks will be quarentined for in many cases the rest of their lives. 

They talked about influenza a bit too. And my gosh Lousianna sure got a grip quickly on the covid thing. But flu looks like it was really bad there this year. (red line)






Mrs Fixer did up some rub on hard hat stickers for me to pass out at work.


----------



## RedLED

flashy bazook said:


> COVID-19 emergency in the US starting to wind down.
> 
> Some good news on testing remdesevir. Study from Chicago.
> 
> I tried to find a story about this but google news refuses to provide any.
> 
> Caught a whiff of this by trying to track down why stock-market futures up after market close today.
> 
> But also federal government issuing new guidelines allowing states to open up in a phased way (3 phases, provided certain milestones in terms of declining cases/deaths are passed, and moves between phases allowed provided no backtracking).
> 
> Important state-by-state map shown indicating significant drops in cases in most states, of course some hot-spots persist.
> 
> The map shown in this forum earlier on per-capita cases by Chauncey Gardiner clearly shows how much better the US has done relative to almost all other countries. And medical care has also been superior here, in my opinion.
> 
> The famous NHS (national health service) in the UK, that everyone tells us how much better it is than our US health care system, has one ventilator for every five we have here per person. Their typical way of treating people is to ignore them (I have relatives there and they are almost never able to be admitted or even be seen and treated whenever they have a problem, admittedly they are young and haven't had huge trouble, but sometimes they did have serious trouble).
> 
> And one other thing about the map showing many more cases in the US. Well, please add up all those cases in individual countries in Europe, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, UK.,... The US is a continental country, you need to compare it with the total of Europe (US about 330m people, Europe perhaps 400 m depending on definition).
> 
> A few of the bigger European countries alone total more cases than the US, and way more deaths.
> 
> Really, those of us living in this country, the US, sometimes forget how lucky we are, and I speak as someone who has lived and traveled in many countries around the world.


Flashy, 

I agree with you that while it is nice to see the world, wheels down in the USA is a good feeling every time no matter how many times you return.


----------



## bykfixer

Saw these characters practicing social distancing at work today. 





But I think they had more on their minds than covid-19




Datz some brave hombres there.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Social distancing. I love that post Lol.

bill


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> (COVID-19CasesPerCapita.jpg)



This chart is an excellent indicator of population density; for example, if you were to generate a chart of Number of Gas Stations Per Capita, the US would rank quite low, because the population is spread out over a massive area. Number of Candy Bars Per Capita, US is low again. Etc. Whoever made this chart is having a chuckle at a few peoples' expense..



flashy bazook said:


> A few of the bigger European countries alone total more cases than the US, and way more deaths.



Which countries are those? This would be so much easier to track if someone would just post a chart of the number of daily confirmed cases in the ten most affected countries..


----------



## SCEMan

bykfixer said:


> Saw these characters practicing social distancing at work today.
> But I think they had more on their minds than covid-19
> Datz some brave hombres there.



I've been noticing a lot of linemen in my area lately too. Definitely an essential job. 
Brave for sure. One of the few jobs my former employer didn't try to outsource/offshore.


----------



## nbp

USA has a gas station for every 2972 people and we eat 22 lbs of candy per person per year, the equivalent of 227 Hershey bars. We are awesome!!


----------



## nightshade

There is a lot of politics and money involved in the New Orleans stats. There is BIG money to be made on Covid-19. Outsiders don't understand the depth of depravity and corruption in NOLA.


----------



## RedLED

Nightshade,

Could you elaborate on this?


----------



## markr6

nbp said:


> USA has a gas station for every 2972 people and we eat 22 lbs of candy per person per year, the equivalent of 227 Hershey bars. We are awesome!!




22lbs. I eat that much in Good & Plenty alone. Need to pump those numbers up!


----------



## BVH

StarHalo said:


> ............................ This would be so much easier to track if someone would just post a chart of the number of daily confirmed cases in the ten most affected countries..



Ask and yee shall receive...

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries


----------



## ledbetter

markr6 said:


> 22lbs. I eat that much in Good & Plenty alone. Need to pump those numbers up!


Obesity is now identified as one of the top three comorbities along with diabetes and heart disease that lead to complications and possible death from Kung Flu. That’s the literal meaning of “thinning the herd.”


----------



## scout24

BVH- Thank you for that link. Bookmarked! I found the cases per capita line of the chart particularly telling.


----------



## StarHalo

BVH said:


> Ask and yee shall receive...



Well played, sir. I was joking though, I post the Johns Hopkins ten day chart here almost daily, just not a lot of acceptance of those numbers here though. If you add up the cases for countries 2, 3, 4, and 5, that's still not as many cases as the US.


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Well played, sir. I was joking though, I post the Johns Hopkins ten day chart here almost daily, just not a lot of acceptance of those numbers here though. If you add up the cases for countries 2, 3, 4, and 5, that's still not as many cases as the US.



That's due to the fact that those numbers are a raw count, not parsed with the total country population to provide a percentage per capita for perspective.


----------



## StarHalo

SCEMan said:


> That's due to the fact that those numbers are a raw count, not parsed with the total country population to provide a percentage per capita for perspective.



It's due to the fact that the infrastructure intended to deal with a pandemic was dismantled beforehand, that warnings of a pandemic were ignored, that the pandemic was regarded as a hoax, that sufficient testing was not and is not available, that lack of national leadership caused many thousands more deaths that could have been prevented.

It should be a red flag if you're trying to "smooth over" 32,000+ deaths.


----------



## scout24

Per capita, the U.S. is doing better than a bunch of countries. This is despite having an incredibly diverse population and arguably the most open immigration in the world. We have 17 states with a combined TOTAL 200+/- deaths. The areas with the highest concentrations of cases and deaths encompass a tiny portion of the country in square miles. You cannot possibly dispute that. Or maybe you can... :shrug: 

I cannot fathom hating the pilot enough to hope that your plane crashes but to each their own.

Source for your allegations, please? Without a source, as has been asked for here before in this thread, (not just from you.) it 's just your opinion. And we all know about opinions...


----------



## Johnnyh

scout24 said:


> Source for your allegations, please?



I’m guessing MSNBC...[emoji56]


----------



## scout24

Johnnyh- I added to my post you quoted, if you want to re-copy it... :nana:


----------



## bigburly912

I peeked......... I shouldn’t have. 

if sufficient testing isn’t available then how do we have so many testing positive daily????


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> It's due to the fact that the infrastructure intended to deal with a pandemic was dismantled beforehand, that warnings of a pandemic were ignored, that the pandemic was regarded as a hoax, that sufficient testing was not and is not available, that lack of national leadership caused many thousands more deaths that could have been prevented.
> 
> It should be a red flag if you're trying to "smooth over" 32,000+ deaths.



Apparently you perceive any effort to present information that doesn't fit your agenda as "smoothing over". I'm simply presenting an objective perspective formed by years of work collecting and analyzing data.


----------



## StarHalo

scout24 said:


> Per capita



You're just saying that Americans are more spread out so therefore by equally spreading the numbers out, it doesn't look so bad. I'd bring up the history of those movements that minimized death tolls, but if you're unable to recall the termination of the National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense in 2018, then it would only confuse the situation. And you're going to say that it was "streamlined", then fail to explain why supplies that were available in the last pandemic were not available in this one, then say the states had plenty of supplies, etc. It's just the same numbers and charts the whole world sees, smoothing them over is opinion.

"Pilot" implies leadership. You can feel any way you want about someone who merely stands aside, it makes no difference to the situation at hand.


----------



## Poppy

What happened to the National stockpile that Obama built up in his 8 years as President?


----------



## Greta

Perspective:

I live in the third largest county in the U.S. Here are the stats as of this morning:







FWIW - I'm on lockdown orders just like the rest of you :thinking:


----------



## bigburly912

I don’t believe that stat page Greta, there’s no way the US has 672,303 cases confirmed!!!! There is NO testing being done. 🤔


----------



## nbp

Per capita means per person, not per unit of area. Certain posts about gas stations and candy bars keep mentioning how spread out the US population is and relating that to cases per capita. What? Yes, we are spread out, and that works in our favor here. The population density is what it is, and so if that causes less disease transmission than in densely populated countries, that’s an advantage. Hotspots like NYC are completely expected. I recently read a book about the history of Bellevue Hospital, which has been the at the epicenter of infectious disease study in the US for most of its history. Boats full of travelers, high population density, and areas of poor sanitation have caused NYC to be a hotspot of disease in this country for 300 years. This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone.


----------



## StarHalo

If you aren't sure where you could get tested, that means not enough testing is available.


----------



## Greta

bigburly912 said:


> I don’t believe that stat page Greta, there’s no way the US has 672,303 cases confirmed!!!! There is NO testing being done. 樂



I know, I know... I'll crawl back in my isolation corner now and stop perpetuating such nonsense... :fail::candle:


----------



## bigburly912

What do you mean you don’t know where you can get tested? We have two drive ups and a local hospital that was converted into a regional covid-19 facility. Maybe the federal government isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s your state? That’s not a swipe at all that’s me being serious. I can also drive 45 minutes across state lines and get tested if need be. I hate that you have been let down like that. Apparently Virginia and Tennessee are at least good at something.


----------



## Greta

StarHalo said:


> If you aren't sure where you could get tested, that means not enough testing is available.



Where do you get this stuff from?!?!? :duh2:

No! It means you're the same person who wanders around Home Depot as if it's social hour and you maybe pick up a cabinet knob or two and then wander some more trying to strike up conversations with the employees who have to actually TELL you to stay 6 feet away from them and you get pissed cuz they were rude to you! It means you are oblivious to what is going on in the world right now and can't be bothered to find out. Ignorance is bliss, "they" say. So if you aren't sure where you could get tested, you must be a very blissful person. :shakehead


----------



## RBR

That score of 672,303 cases in total has been published by Johns Hupkins University.


----------



## Greta

RBR said:


> That score of 672,303 cases in total has been published by Johns Hupkins University.



Yes, and the CDC also.


----------



## StarHalo

bigburly912 said:


> What do you mean you don’t know where you can get tested? We have two drive ups and a local hospital that was converted into a regional covid-19 facility. Maybe the federal government isn’t the problem. Maybe it’s your state? That’s not a swipe at all that’s me being serious. I can also drive 45 minutes across state lines and get tested if need be. I hate that you have been let down like that. Apparently Virginia and Tennessee are at least good at something.



According to your local news, the drive-thru locations in Virginia opened yesterday. So we have no idea what the metrics on your state were up until this point, and hopefully everyone who has an issue will drive to one of two locations. Maybe the federal government could have prevented that. I hate that we have been let down like that.


----------



## BVH

Compared to the giant 18,200 sq mi. Nye county, my County, San Luis Obispo CA is only 330 sq mi and some of that is water. We have just reached 130 total cases with 1 death. 5 cases in my 7.x sq mi. City. I'd count myself as very lucky, relatively.


----------



## StarHalo

Greta said:


> Where do you get this stuff from?!?!? :duh2:
> 
> It means you are oblivious to what is going on in the world right now and can't be bothered to find out. Ignorance is bliss, "they" say. So if you aren't sure where you could get tested, you must be a very blissful person. :shakehead



In most states, you can't go directly to your local testing facility, you have to be referred as a form of triage; so you'll need to know if your case is serious enough to merit a referral, then go through the process of being referred, then go stand in line for the test. The general advice is that if you have flu-like symptoms, stay home - so if you think you may be showing signs of infection, you are specifically instructed to not get tested. 

I am quite blissful though, namaste.


----------



## bigburly912

StarHalo said:


> In most states, you can't go directly to your local testing facility, you have to be referred as a form of triage; so you'll need to know if your case is serious enough to merit a referral, then go through the process of being referred, then go stand in line for the test. The general advice is that if you have flu-like symptoms, stay home - so if you think you may be showing signs of infection, you are specifically instructed to not get tested.
> 
> I am quite blissful though, namaste.




so your problem isnt the fact that you dont know where/how to get tested. its the fact that there is a process you have to follow to be tested. wow. 

here we have teledoc appointments, they refer you, you go. Im sure everyone has something similar. IM still trying to understand where you are coming from. I just cant. But what do i know, im just a bigot.


----------



## Greta

StarHalo said:


> If you aren't sure where you could get tested, that means not enough testing is available.





StarHalo said:


> In most states, you can't go directly to your local testing facility, you have to be referred as a form of triage; so you'll need to know if your case is serious enough to merit a referral, then go through the process of being referred, then go stand in line for the test. The general advice is that if you have flu-like symptoms, stay home - so if you think you may be showing signs of infection, you are specifically instructed to not get tested.
> 
> I am quite blissful though, namaste.



Your second post directly contradicts your first. :shakehead

And your second post _may_ be how it is where you are but it's not like that where I am. So it sounds like the failure is in YOUR state and not necessarily in general as you would imply. :shrug:

And I'm not even going to touch your last statement.


----------



## knucklegary

Isn't that chow ming noodles... ummmmmm namaste peace be with you brothers and sisterslovecpf


----------



## bigburly912

Man, I wish my friend had left his chinese restaurant open for take out. He makes the best Lo Mein. Oh wait, I think im not supposed to have friends that aren't exactly like me. My apologies. My dad can beat up your dad. Ill go back to my hole now. ​


----------



## StarHalo

Greta said:


> Your second post directly contradicts your first. :shakehead
> 
> And your second post _may_ be how it is where you are but it's not like that where I am. So it sounds like the failure is in YOUR state and not necessarily in general as you would imply. :shrug:
> 
> And I'm not even going to touch your last statement.



I was too vague in the first post; more specifically, if you are fortunate enough to know where you could get tested, but there has to be a referral system in place to triage you so they don't use too many tests, then there aren't enough tests available. 

I see the argument being made that there are "probably" many more people who are ill who just aren't being tested - to then argue that testing is easy and plentiful is having it both ways. Either the metrics are there or they aren't, but most of us agree that the numbers are low.



bigburly912 said:


> But what do i know, im just a bigot.



I've never called anyone a bigot, still not sure where you're getting that. The ugliest word in the English language is _uneducable_, and I don't believe that applies to any living being (though given the thread's animosity, perhaps I am alone in this sentiment.)


----------



## knucklegary

BB, we just bought bok choy, bean sprouts, sweet pea pods, it's fast easy dish to stir up.. Plus fresh veggies are full of zinc to boost our immune systems (-;


----------



## Greta

bigburly912 said:


> Man, I wish my friend had left his chinese restaurant open for take out. He makes the best Lo Mein. ....



Fortunately our favorite Chinese restaurant is still open for pickup and delivery. They have THE best General Tso Chicken! Hmmm :thinking: .. might have to have Honey do a pickup on his way home from work today. Now I'm hungry.


----------



## bigburly912

StarHalo said:


> I already know you don't value different, it's not about you.


 hmmmm. 
bigot

[ˈbiɡət]




NOUN

* 

a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.








*

​


----------



## StarHalo

bigburly912 said:


> hmmmm.



And promptly thereafter I pointed out that it’s two different approaches to an issue, and that both are required and neither are bad. You prefer homogeneity, what’s the problem with that?


----------



## bigburly912

How do you get that? How do you know me well enough to know what I prefer. I will once again stand by my statement that I don’t appreciate being called a bigot. You know nothing of me or my life. All you know about me is that I don’t like news outlets.


----------



## scout24

You know what? This would be funny if there was a more even spread of people on both sides if an issue, or we were willing to stay on one topic, provide credentials or sources, and be willing to hash out a single point or issue without the constant deflection that you use to try to steer the discussion away from having to provide said sources. This continued tactic is just sad.And my words about pilot and plane is a common saying, you completely understand the point, and won't even admit to it. Deflect yet again.


----------



## coffeecup66

BVH said:


> Ask and yee shall receive...
> 
> https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries




The numbers for France on that chart are total baloney (as shown in a link given about 15 lines higher up on that page !) :

- https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/ (official governmental page)

Also published on another official site 

The official number of cases for France ("cas confirmés") is 109 252 cases, as of 14:00 h on April 17th 2020.
Not 147 969 cases as stated in the chart.


----------



## scout24

I thought there was no testing??? :thinking:


----------



## StarHalo

bigburly912 said:


> How do you get that? How do you know me well enough to know what I prefer. I will once again stand by my statement that I don’t appreciate being called a bigot. You know nothing of me or my life. All you know about me is that I don’t like news outlets.



You made the executive decision to intervene with a political comment. I could have ignored or complained, but instead I merely responded. You didn't like the responses. That's a bummer. No one is forcing anyone to be here, and if anger fixed anything, everything would have been fixed by now. What would be helpful, and not against the rules, would be to focus on the topic of the thread. Don't worry about me, worry about Coronavirus.


----------



## scout24

StarHalo said:


> You're just saying that Americans are more spread out so therefore by equally spreading the numbers out, it doesn't look so bad. I'd bring up the history of those movements that minimized death tolls, but if you're unable to recall the termination of the National Security Council Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense in 2018, then it would only confuse the situation. And you're going to say that it was "streamlined", then fail to explain why supplies that were available in the last pandemic were not available in this one, then say the states had plenty of supplies, etc. It's just the same numbers and charts the whole world sees, smoothing them over is opinion.
> 
> "Pilot" implies leadership. You can feel any way you want about someone who merely stands aside, it makes no difference to the situation at hand.



If you want to use per capita numbers for other countries to attempt to smear the response by our country to the virus, you have to be willing to use everyone's per capita numbers. You don't get to change the metric to suit your agenda.


----------



## StarHalo

scout24 said:


> attempt to smear the response by our country to the virus



There was no national response.


----------



## bigburly912

StarHalo said:


> You made the executive decision to intervene with a political comment. I could have ignored or complained, but instead I merely responded. You didn't like the responses. That's a bummer. No one is forcing anyone to be here, and if anger fixed anything, everything would have been fixed by now. What would be helpful, and not against the rules, would be to focus on the topic of the thread. Don't worry about me, worry about Coronavirus.



What about “you got those numbers from cnn”, is political. You are the only one that got angry friend; you can’t stand it and are trying to push an agenda. And also, how do you claim to know my political affiliations? Once again, just because I don’t like big news doesn’t mean anything. You are very very flawed in your thinking.


----------



## bigburly912

#Rona


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> There was no national response.



Tag, you're it!


----------



## knucklegary

BB, and here I've been eyeballing my old Yellow pages book!


----------



## bykfixer

My governor is far from a conservative and he praised the national leadership. Today. 
He is going to relax things by region as soon as the numbers fall consistantly. Today we went back up after several days of dropping.


----------



## scout24

StarHalo said:


> There was no national response.


Health and Human Services Sec. Azar declared a public health emergency on 31 Jan, and started travel restrictions to and from China on 2 Feb. (Factcheck.org) Both steps were widely panned at the time, with words like "xenophobic" tossed around by a preponderance of media. In hindsight, these actions were the beginning of a far larger coordinated response by CDC, NIH, and HHS despite ridicule from the WHO. Which country was it you implying had "No national response"?


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Hey BVH,
Thanks for the link. At worldometer.com/info , one can compare some death numbers for today. It is descriptive to see the numbers continue to go up while looking at the data.

And for some of us here the numbers are grist for the mill, behind this keyboard they are possible indicators.

Deaths 'today' for Coronavirus 7,767,
,for suicide- 1782,
,by cancer- 13659,
,flu- 810,
,hunger- 18,628,
,overall deaths- 98,000 and counting,
, births- 233,000 and counting,


----------



## ven

bykfixer said:


> My governor is far from a conservative and he praised the national leadership. Today.
> He is going to relax things by region as soon as the numbers fall consistantly. Today we went back up after several days of dropping.




This does worry me, the talk of relaxing, or getting more back to normal. In the uK we are being told to expect waves, the vaccine might not be available to everyone till spring 2021. In the next 12 months professors, scientists are telling us potentially 6 waves of covid19 could hit us . Also highlighting we did not react quick enough (no *beep* Sherlock) . To avoid another spike, we need to adopt community testing like south korea.

I can not see anything normal this year, certain things may get relaxed, but i am pretty sure they wont be for long.

Stay safe.


----------



## StarHalo

ven said:


> In the next 12 months professors, scientists are telling us potentially 6 waves of covid19 could hit us . Also highlighting we did not react quick enough (no *beep* Sherlock) . To avoid another spike, we need to adopt community testing like south korea.



I foresee the term "second peak" or something similar, it'll just happen in different times in different places..


----------



## Kestrel

'A second peak' is nonsensical if it's happening in different times in different places - a phenomena that is spread out with regards to both geography and (more importantly) chronology, can't really be a peak.


----------



## RedLED

This broke 15 minutes ago***

All residents in Riverside County, California can get tested at several locations set up but the county. All you need to do is call for an appointment. This includes people with no symptoms, everyone.

Source - The Desert Sun

###


----------



## StarHalo

Kestrel said:


> 'A second peak' is nonsensical if it's happening in different times in different places - a phenomena that is spread out with regards to both geography and (more importantly) chronology, can't really be a peak.



Each country has its own peak due to the arrival time of the virus and initial response, see the previously posted Johns Hopkins charts.



RedLED said:


> All residents in Riverside County, California can get tested at several locations set up but the county. All you need to do is call for an appointment. This includes people with no symptoms, everyone.



That's good news, I wonder if they have a Google Traffic meter so you could see the best times to go..


----------



## Greta

StarHalo said:


> That's good news, I wonder if they have a Google Traffic meter so you could see the best times to go..




 Originally Posted by *RedLED* 


_All residents in Riverside County, California can get tested at several locations set up but the county. *All you need to do is call for an appointment*. This includes people with no symptoms, everyone.

:shakehead_


----------



## StarHalo

Greta said:


> Originally Posted by *RedLED*
> 
> 
> _All residents in Riverside County, California can get tested at several locations set up but the county. *All you need to do is call for an appointment*. This includes people with no symptoms, everyone._



That doesn't mean your appointment time will be exclusively for you or that it will be a quick process, you've seen some of the lines at testing places nationally..


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

:hahaha:


StarHalo said:


> ... snip ...
> 
> I am quite blissful though, namaste.




Am I the only person here that found that funny? I laughed out loud. namaste :laughing:


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Am I the only person here that found that funny? I laughed out loud. namaste :laughing:



You're supposed to interpret it as unnecessary anger and then be angry at me about it. Or something. Still not sure how this thread works.

Do you guys have flowers yet?


----------



## scout24

You'd find a reason to be unhappy with free ice cream, wouldn't you?


----------



## RedLED

I'm the messenger here. Also, I have no intention of being tested!


----------



## scout24

RedLed- Thank you for the pertinent, detailed, real-time useful update. Sincerely. It's good to see avalability.

Thanks for being the messenger.


----------



## knucklegary

Star Namaste.. I am still wanting to come over check out your new Amz fridge and party with AOC 

How about participating in the mask thread so we can put an image with the antagonist


----------



## RedLED

scout24 said:


> RedLed- Thank you for the pertinent, detailed, real-time useful update. Sincerely. It's good to see avalability.
> 
> Thanks for being the messenger.


Thanks, Scout.


----------



## LGT

This covid19 just wears on your psyche. Activities that temporarily get my thoughts off of it all eventually lead to “back to covid19”
I walk outside, go to work, everything looks the same, but it isn’t. Four months ago seems like a lifetime ago. Just blowing off steam.


----------



## LGT

scout24 said:


> You'd find a reason to be unhappy with free ice cream, wouldn't you?


Ha, I’ve used that with my fellow electric company workers, give a lineman a free bowl of ice cream, they’d ***** about the flavor.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> I'm the messenger here. Also, I have no intention of being tested!



That's interesting, why not?



LGT said:


> This covid19 just wears on your psyche. Activities that temporarily get my thoughts off of it all eventually lead to “back to covid19”
> I walk outside, go to work, everything looks the same, but it isn’t. Four months ago seems like a lifetime ago. Just blowing off steam.



The masks cover up girls' smiles, it's a crime..


----------



## RedLED

Because I am not sick. What if you test positive, does that mean you have to quarantine until there is a Vax? This is not over yet, and I Don't want to be in a database.


----------



## wacbzz

RedLED said:


> I'm the messenger here.



300 my friend. 300.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Because I am not sick. What if you test positive, does that mean you have to quarantine until there is a Vax? This is not over yet, and I Don't want to be in a database.



They just now can actually test you and you think they organized a database? 

I get two weeks paid if I test positive, pretty sure I already had it though.



wacbzz said:


> 300 my friend. 300.



lol, classic


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Let's say you're an asymptomatic carrier. Everyone's been saying that these people can spread the virus without knowing it. But if you're one of the symptomatic victims, you eventually (hopefully) reach a point when you're over it and presumably not spreading it anymore. However there is no "over it" stage for asymptomatic people, so are they infectious forever or do they eventually stop shedding virus also?


----------



## RedLED

StarHalo said:


> They just now can actually test you and you think they organized a database?
> 
> I get two weeks paid if I test positive, pretty sure I already had it though.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, classic


Like I said, this is not over, what about the talk of passports? I do not trust the Gov., especially the California Gov.


----------



## RedLED

You get two weeks pay but do you get to go back to work? As soon as you tell them, voluntary, you become a legal liability. And, who would not want to sue Bezos company.


----------



## bigburly912

LGT said:


> Ha, I’ve used that with my fellow electric company workers, give a lineman a free bowl of ice cream, they’d ***** about the flavor.



I mean, if you have free ice cream I know a stores attendant-A that won’t turn it down.


----------



## Greta

Greta said:


> .....
> 
> Ignorance is bliss, "they" say. So if you aren't sure where you could get tested, you must be a very blissful person. :shakehead





StarHalo said:


> ....
> 
> I am quite blissful though, namaste.


----------



## StarHalo

PhotonWrangler said:


> Let's say you're an asymptomatic carrier. Everyone's been saying that these people can spread the virus without knowing it. But if you're one of the symptomatic victims, you eventually (hopefully) reach a point when you're over it and presumably not spreading it anymore. However there is no "over it" stage for asymptomatic people, so are they infectious forever or do they eventually stop shedding virus also?



Your body produces antibodies which over time eventually wipe out the virus in your body; the presence of these antibodies is what makes an antibody test show positive. That's the easy part, the hard part is that there's no evidence that having overcome the virus/the antibodies prevents you from becoming infected again.



RedLED said:


> You get two weeks pay but do you get to go back to work? As soon as you tell them, voluntary, you become a legal liability. And, who would not want to sue Bezos company.



If you show up to work with a fever (and they use entry-mounted thermal cameras to determine this,) it's three days out no pay, then come back. If you produce a positive test, it's two weeks with pay, then come back. I think the first person who tested positive here was roughly two weeks ago, so maybe they'll tell us about it..


----------



## RedLED

StarHalo said:


> Your body produces antibodies which over time eventually wipe out the virus in your body; the presence of these antibodies is what makes an antibody test show positive. That's the easy part, the hard part is that there's no evidence that having overcome the virus/the antibodies prevents you from becoming infected again.
> 
> 
> 
> If you show up to work with a fever (and they use entry-mounted thermal cameras to determine this,) it's three days out no pay, then come back. If you produce a positive test, it's two weeks with pay, then come back. I think the first person who tested positive here was roughly two weeks ago, so maybe they'll tell us about it..


Dude,

When the richest nation in history has it economy upside down, I would not be surprised by what government could or would do. Look what we lost with the Patroit Act after 9/11.

And, this is the county doing these tests, you Don't think they will have a database? They had records of these things 700 years ago, maintained by the church. Of course there will be a database, and you must know they will want all your information. They sell these databases for a lot of money, maybe not with your name, but Sex, age, location.


----------



## knucklegary

RedLED said:


> Like I said, this is not over, what about the talk of passports? I do not trust the Gov., especially the California Gov.



Red, You are absolutely correct! A data base is a given, as simple as scanning your CA drivers lic. Do you think they'll first ask permission lol


----------



## RedLED

knucklegary said:


> Red, You are absolutely correct! A data base is a given, as simple as scanning your CA drivers lic. Do you think they'll first ask permission lol


That's right they make it easy. What I'm saying is the amount of money lost due to this is unbelievable no losses like this have ever happened, and the powers that are loosing everyday are, at some point, going to get some action taken. We can not continue like this for two years, if there even is a Vax. by then. 

Did you ever think you would ever see the country shut down? Even in the dark days of WWII the economies of Europe still functioned.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> And, this is the county doing these tests, you Don't think they will have a database? They had records of these things 700 years ago, maintained by the church. Of course there will be a database, and you must know they will want all your information. They sell these databases for a lot of money, maybe not with your name, but Sex, age, location.



Hm, well I can't see that they'd do much to me using the info, but I can see that it'd just be a logical step in general SHTF prepping. I dunno, I always want to ask Sub_Umbra about these things..


----------



## Johnnyh

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...f-thousands-of-children-in-2020-idUSKBN21Y2X7

When the President said “The cure can’t be worse than the disease” he himself may not have realized how true that was.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> You're supposed to interpret it as unnecessary anger and then be angry at me about it. Or something. Still not sure how this thread works.
> 
> Do you guys have flowers yet?



Nope. It was, and still is funny to me. I was thinking of you enjoying a good brew and some consumables ..... smiled and it turned into a laugh. :thumbsup: 

We're having one of the best weather Springs I can remember. Bulbs are up and showing color and the trees are coming on.


----------



## RedLED

What a nice yard. Reminds me of England.


----------



## bykfixer

Wow. I missed a whole page. Catching up was mostly fun. I see one member still quarreling with everybody. Who knew? 

And uh, yeah……there's a data base alright. Dr Birx talked about it today. So did the CDC fellow with the beard, I forget his name. 
They hinted about it yesterday. Today they revealed what they are tracking and they just morphed it into the flu tracking system where they track every "recorded" upper respitory infection. They even showed where the labs are state by state. (Missourians, you have nothing to fear lol, they don't have labs in your state.) 

Someone asked (paraphrasing) "how will you know the spread rate once things relax?" They replied "trust us, we'll know mwew ah ah ahhhh" then they started showing how they'll know. 

They learned how to in the 80's when AIDS broke out. 
I said before, my uncle was deemed "case #85" way back in like 93 and they actually knew where case #1 originated. He had been carrying it for like 15 years they said when he got sick from the HIV virus. 

Plus they have contact traced a whole bunch of people. A bunch!! 

I'm with red, I don't want to be in their data base either. Thus far (in my view) our leaders have not been really bad people. I mean Nepoleon bad, but one day we will elect a Napoleon, a Castro, dare I say it, a Hitler. I mean real McCoy not the CNN or Fox says they are type. And with all of that data they have. Holy Smokes……I hate to even imagine it.


----------



## SCEMan

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Nope. It was, and still is funny to me. I was thinking of you enjoying a good brew and some consumables ..... smiled and it turned into a laugh. :thumbsup:
> We're having one of the best weather Springs I can remember. Bulbs are up and showing color and the trees are coming on.



Nice spot to hunker down in. Congrats :twothumbs


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

RedLED said:


> I'm the messenger here. Also, I have no intention of being tested!


Before you post, RedLED, know that in CPF everyone, even a king's messenger, is held accountable for the words of his keyboard. 




wacbzz said:


> 300 my friend. 300.



***** Five star post. :thumbsup:


----------



## Poppy

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Nope. It was, and still is funny to me. I was thinking of you enjoying a good brew and some consumables ..... smiled and it turned into a laugh. :thumbsup:
> 
> We're having one of the best weather Springs I can remember. Bulbs are up and showing color and the trees are coming on.


Man,
You've got flowers!
Gotta love ya! 
Keep smiling!
Poppy


----------



## bykfixer

I still wanna know how they know that kid in the congo who hasn't been around civilization is positive for the novel corona virus. 

And how much wood can a wood chuck chuck if a wood chuck had covid-19……


----------



## bigburly912

bykfixer said:


> I still wanna know how they know that kid in the congo



Yet some Californians don’t know how or where to go to get a test?


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

RedLED and SCEMan, 

Thank you very much. The Lovely Mrs Gardiner and I have enjoyed it as home for the better part of 35 years. 

The first picture was [email protected]@King out the window to my right when seated at the kitchen table. Below is the view [email protected]@King out of the window to my left..... or will be in about a month's worth of Spring.


----------



## Poppy

Without even seeing all the stages of re-opening the economy, One in particular concerns me as a violation of privacy. 

The use of technology to do contact tracing. I think I heard once that they were working with Apple and Google.

My daughter uses an Apple app (maybe it is built in to be able to locate her phone if it is lost, or her children's whereabouts) MY phone is an android, and with a number of apps, it will track my speed, and locations, and my siblings and I keep an eye on my Dad, what percent charge, where he is, what speed he is traveling, where he is, and follow him as he drives around.

A couple of years ago, I didn't allow my phone to give my location to any business, or app, but it made the phone so much less usable that I relented. Now.. I am no where near invisible. 

I can only imagine that in a "National Emergency" and the fact that tracing has already been mentioned that we will see the day that our movements will be traced. I hope that would be a violation of our constitutional rights, but I don't know. If however it is decided that it is for the public good, and passed until the Supreme Court hears the case (which may take a couple of years) that the enactment of any such legislation, if enacted, would have a time limit on it.

Thoughts?


----------



## knucklegary

Byk, I heard that remote tribe got covid eating wild chimpanzees that were infected.. IDK verses eating store bought chimp meat? 

I'll stick with Jimmy Dean sausage thank you!

I am chuckling


----------



## bykfixer

Wait until 5g kicks in poppy. 

I watched a video where a guy went to China to test it out. He bought a 5g capable device. He walked into a "smart" restaraunt where the screen said "hello (insert his name here)". He said the police have goggles with thermostats and that one lady was suddenly carried away by police because a cops goggles said she had a fever. He said he went to get on a train and saw the fare had been taken out of his google wallet before he reached his destination, his meal too. Oh, a friend of his rented a bike with his 5g device and everywhere he went the place knew who he was. He said in one city they have over a million cameras and other smart devices all communicating with each other in one way or another. 
He said when walking to the airport he tossed the device in the trash.

Jimmy Dean makes some mighty tastey turkey sausage. My doc approves. :naughty:


----------



## RedLED

Poppy said:


> Without even seeing all the stages of re-opening the economy, One in particular concerns me as a violation of privacy.
> 
> The use of technology to do contact tracing. I think I heard once that they were working with Apple and Google.
> 
> My daughter uses an Apple app (maybe it is built in to be able to locate her phone if it is lost, or her children's whereabouts) MY phone is an android, and with a number of apps, it will track my speed, and locations, and my siblings and I keep an eye on my Dad, what percent charge, where he is, what speed he is traveling, where he is, and follow him as he drives around.
> 
> A couple of years ago, I didn't allow my phone to give my location to any business, or app, but it made the phone so much less usable that I relented. Now.. I am no where near invisible.
> 
> I can only imagine that in a "National Emergency" and the fact that tracing has already been mentioned that we will see the day that our movements will be traced. I hope that would be a violation of our constitutional rights, but I don't know. If however it is decided that it is for the public good, and passed until the Supreme Court hears the case (which may take a couple of years) that the enactment of any such legislation, if enacted, would have a time limit on it.
> 
> Thoughts?


This is what I'm talking about by not wanting to get tested.


----------



## RedLED

bykfixer said:


> Wait until 5g kicks in poppy.
> 
> I watched a video where a guy went to China to test it out. He bought a 5g capable device. He walked into a "smart" restaraunt where the screen said "hello (insert his name here)". He said the police have goggles with thermostats and that one lady was suddenly carried away by police because a cops goggles said she had a fever. He said he went to get on a train and saw the fare had been taken out of his google wallet before he reached his destination, his meal too. He said when walking to the airport he tossed the device in the trash.
> 
> Jimmy Dean makes some mighty tastey turkey sausage. My doc approves. :naughty:


Right now I could tape my phone to a cargo container on the railroad, and never miss it. Try tracking that. But my 29 year old daughter, forget about it.


----------



## bykfixer

Not me red. I left mine in my truck all day today and missed a whole page of star halo wisdoms in the corona virus thread.


----------



## Poppy

RedLED said:


> This is what I'm talking about by not wanting to get tested.


Yes Red,
I fully understand.



bykfixer said:


> Wait until 5g kicks in poppy.
> 
> I watched a video where a guy went to China to test it out. He bought a 5g capable device. He walked into a "smart" restaraunt where the screen said "hello (insert his name here)". He said the police have goggles with thermostats and that one lady was suddenly carried away by police because a cops goggles said she had a fever. He said he went to get on a train and saw the fare had been taken out of his google wallet before he reached his destination, his meal too. Oh, a friend of his rented a bike with his 5g device and everywhere he went the place knew who he was. He said in one city they have over a million cameras and other smart devices all communicating with each other in one way or another.
> He said when walking to the airport he tossed the device in the trash.


Yes my friend,
That is scary indeed.

Years ago, a friend of mine (who ended up being my cousin-in-laws-father if you can follow that) spoke to me about something in the bible that we will all be numbered and be identified by that number. Or something like that. His concern had something to do with the devil, and 666 and perhaps our social security numbers. I read the bible and didn't see that in there, but wasn't looking for it. Perhaps those of you who are more scholarly, about the bible, than I, know what he was referring to. 
At any rate, 30 years later he may have stated that it was our google, amazon, or cell phone passwords, or the digital id of the phone.
Scary, whether it was prophesied in the Bible or not.


----------



## RedLED

Fixer,

You Dont want to miss that.


----------



## RedLED

Thanks, Poppy.


----------



## RedLED

CG, 

Where are all your garden Cats?


----------



## Johnnyh

Poppy said:


> Without even seeing all the stages of re-opening the economy, One in particular concerns me as a violation of privacy.
> 
> The use of technology to do contact tracing. I think I heard once that they were working with Apple and Google.
> 
> My daughter uses an Apple app (maybe it is built in to be able to locate her phone if it is lost, or her children's whereabouts) MY phone is an android, and with a number of apps, it will track my speed, and locations, and my siblings and I keep an eye on my Dad, what percent charge, where he is, what speed he is traveling, where he is, and follow him as he drives around.
> 
> A couple of years ago, I didn't allow my phone to give my location to any business, or app, but it made the phone so much less usable that I relented. Now.. I am no where near invisible.
> 
> I can only imagine that in a "National Emergency" and the fact that tracing has already been mentioned that we will see the day that our movements will be traced. I hope that would be a violation of our constitutional rights, but I don't know. If however it is decided that it is for the public good, and passed until the Supreme Court hears the case (which may take a couple of years) that the enactment of any such legislation, if enacted, would have a time limit on it.
> 
> Thoughts?



Unfortunately, this kind of “constitution-on-pause” reaction to the latest national emergency is nothing new. Think Japanese internment camps in WW2 or the use of water-torture on prisoners after 9-11. These were deemed by the majority to be necessary for the good of the country, the Constitution be damned. Let’s just hope that this “contact tracking” stuff does not work it’s way into the new normal-but it probably will. You know what Rahm Emanuel said “Never waste a good crisis!”


----------



## RedLED

Johnnyh,

Once you you hear the term, "National Security," look out!


----------



## Johnnyh

RedLED said:


> Johnnyh,
> 
> Once you you hear the term, "National Security," look out!



You got that right! Yikes!


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> We're having one of the best weather Springs I can remember. Bulbs are up and showing color and the trees are coming on.



Well that looks fantastic, definitely a Spring to remember. It's just been rain with more rain here, but when it breaks the flowers explode everywhere. The butterflies were a little early this year, and the rain let up late, so the abundance of both didn't really synchronize.


----------



## Poppy

RedLED said:


> This is what I'm talking about by not wanting to get tested.





Johnnyh said:


> Unfortunately, this kind of “constitution-on-pause” reaction to the latest national emergency is nothing new. Think Japanese internment camps in WW2 or the use of water-torture on prisoners after 9-11. These were deemed by the majority to be necessary for the good of the country, the Constitution be damned. *Let’s just hope that this “contact tracking” stuff does not work it’s way into the new normal-but it probably will.* You know what Rahm Emanuel said “Never waste a good crisis!”


You make good points above, that's why I hope that there is a time limit to "contact tracing" as permitted by law. 
However, I agree with your skeptic opinion, that once they have the authority, they will never release it. Even if they have to do it "behind the scenes."


----------



## Johnnyh

Yea, I’m very distrustful of Big Brother...Although personally I don’t give a rats arse if they track me or not, it’s just another little bite out of my right to privacy...where does it stop?


----------



## nbp

Nice pix StarHalo. I like butterflies and bees and such. I enjoy when I am at customers’ homes with big gardens and there’s all kinds of pollinators flitting about blossom to blossom.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Poppy said:


> Years ago, a friend of mine (who ended up being my cousin-in-laws-father if you can follow that) spoke to me about something in the bible that we will all be numbered and be identified by that number. Or something like that. His concern had something to do with the devil, and 666 and perhaps our social security numbers. I read the bible and didn't see that in there, but wasn't looking for it. Perhaps those of you who are more scholarly, about the bible, than I, know what he was referring to.
> At any rate, 30 years later he may have stated that it was our google, amazon, or cell phone passwords, or the digital id of the phone.
> Scary, whether it was prophesied in the Bible or not.



Revelation 13:16-18: "He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."

Is that the passage you were referring to? I don't think we're there quite yet, but we are getting there fast. A few months ago, I wouldn't have imagined being arrested or fined for going to church, experiencing a worldwide pandemic and lockdown, the nations' economies collapsing, constitutional freedoms curtailed, critical infrastructure on it's last legs, and everyone globally prepping for a new normal with less freedom. I can imagine bankrupt nations afraid to touch currency or ATM machines (and wanting to track criminals or sick people) chucking the whole system and going to a system based on a no touch scanning and tracking technology such as Verichip under the skin. They've been testing it on pets for well over a decade. I hope we aren't there yet, because if we are, we're talking about 7 years of hell on earth followed by the end of the world. Let's just hope and pray that the corona virus is contained soon, our nations recover, and we come out of it with a greater appreciation for each other, freedoms intact.


----------



## knucklegary

Amen...


----------



## StarHalo

nbp said:


> Nice pix StarHalo. I like butterflies and bees and such. I enjoy when I am at customers’ homes with big gardens and there’s all kinds of pollinators flitting about blossom to blossom.



Was way better last year..


----------



## Johnnyh

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Revelation 13:16-18: "He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
> 
> Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
> 
> Is that the passage you were referring to? I don't think we're there quite yet, but we are getting there fast. A few months ago, I wouldn't have imagined being arrested or fined for going to church, experiencing a worldwide pandemic and lockdown, the nations' economies collapsing, constitutional freedoms curtailed, critical infrastructure on it's last legs, and everyone globally prepping for a new normal with less freedom. I can imagine bankrupt nations afraid to touch currency or ATM machines (and wanting to track criminals or sick people) chucking the whole system and going to a system based on a no touch scanning and tracking technology such as Verichip under the skin. They've been testing it on pets for well over a decade. I hope we aren't there yet, because if we are, we're talking about 7 years of hell on earth followed by the end of the world. Let's just hope and pray that the corona virus is contained soon, our nations recover, and we come out of it with a greater appreciation for each other, freedoms intact.



Amen to that.


----------



## nbp

StarHalo said:


> Was way better last year..



Very pretty. Any bees? My mom got into beekeeping two years ago and had a ton of honey last year, although the colony didn’t survive the winter.  A new batch of bees is on order - it’s finally warming up here. It’s good to remember there’s still little flashes of light and joy in the world. This is a good time to reconnect with nature. There are some positive elements to a Slower way of life I guess.


----------



## ven

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> RedLED and SCEMan,
> 
> Thank you very much. The Lovely Mrs Gardiner and I have enjoyed it as home for the better part of 35 years.
> 
> The first picture was [email protected]@King out the window to my right when seated at the kitchen table. Below is the view [email protected]@King out of the window to my left..... or will be in about a month's worth of Spring.





WOW beautiful CG, what a garden you have. Lockdown has never looked so good, i could cope so easy seeing that each day. 

So far no evidence showing those who have had covid19 and survived, have immunity . WHO

Scientists in UK are mass producing vaccines while trails are still ongoing, hopefully to save time and a success in the future...........fingers crossed for not too distant future! 

Stay safe CPF


----------



## Poppy

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Revelation 13:16-18: "He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
> 
> Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."
> 
> Is that the passage you were referring to? I don't think we're there quite yet, but we are getting there fast. A few months ago, I wouldn't have imagined being arrested or fined for going to church, experiencing a worldwide pandemic and lockdown, the nations' economies collapsing, constitutional freedoms curtailed, critical infrastructure on it's last legs, and everyone globally prepping for a new normal with less freedom. I can imagine bankrupt nations afraid to touch currency or ATM machines (and wanting to track criminals or sick people) chucking the whole system and going to a system based on a no touch scanning and tracking technology such as Verichip under the skin. They've been testing it on pets for well over a decade. I hope we aren't there yet, because if we are, we're talking about 7 years of hell on earth followed by the end of the world. *Let's just hope and pray that the corona virus is contained soon, our nations recover, and we come out of it with a greater appreciation for each other, freedoms intact*.


Yes, that is probably what he was referring to.

And Yes... Amen to your prayers!
Poppy


----------



## bykfixer

Poppy said:


> You make good points above, that's why I hope that there is a time limit to "contact tracing" as permitted by law.
> However, I agree with your skeptic opinion, that once they have the authority, they will never release it. Even if they have to do it "behind the scenes."



Remember income tax was to pay for the war of 1812……

Amen to post 1497.

Had my 3rd "uh oh" yesterday. Allergies. Twice allergies had wrecked me sinuses and were thwarted with Claritin. Seemed like the war with pollen was over so I halted the medicine. Mrs Fixer and I ventured out into the pollen saturated air Thu evening for a stroll. No mask. No people, no need. We stopped and chatted with a friend who had gone outside for fresh air. A tickle developed in me nose and throat. Eh just pollen. 
Friday morning I woke and thought "oh no, here we go" as I felt really woozy. No fever so I went to work and like a dutiful American I wore my mask to halt the spread. I warned everybody within 10 feet of me "stay the f away from me, I think it's allergies but aint sure". I stayed outdoors all day in the field instead of working in the office. Nice sunny day. 

By lunch time the woozy was gone. Phew. I told Mrs Fixer later I had a serious issue, even my hands were trembling. She said "oh I forgot to tell, this mornings coffee was full strength caffiene"……
I've drinking decaf for a year. I drink OJ for my morning lift. 2 cups of full strength, no wonder I was jittery (and up way past midnight last night. lol)

So today I feel normal again. Phew. Thank goodness.

Previously someone mentioned (parasphrssing) lax tracking of Covid-19





Here's New Orleans area tracking. 
Can you see where flu left off and covid began in the red line? Neither can I, but Dr Birx and little brother can.


----------



## Tejasandre

ven said:


> WOW beautiful CG, what a garden you have. Lockdown has never looked so good, i could cope so easy seeing that each day.
> 
> So far no evidence showing those who have had covid19 and survived, have immunity . WHO
> 
> Scientists in UK are mass producing vaccines while trails are still ongoing, hopefully to save time and a success in the future...........fingers crossed for not too distant future!
> 
> Stay safe CPF



How would they produce a vaccine if those who survive have no immunity?


----------



## bykfixer

Still no vaccine for HIV. Still no vaccine for corona that causes colds, and the flu shot is for previous versions of a flu virus. The word vaccine gets tossed around, but a vaccine prevents something like polio or measles. A shot boosts your immune system. You get allergy shots, flu shots, pnuemonia shots. You get vaccines for prevention, not pre-treatment. 

The word vaccine sounds so permanent and friendly. The word shot evokes 6" (300mm) needles that hurt. 

There will be a shot for covid-19, yes. But viruses are able to survive by mutating. It's why the common cold still exists and so does the flu. What will likely happen is a shot will inoculate us from covid-19 while covid-20,21 etc are weaker mutations. The spanish flu has returned 4 times. Most do not know that because it's just the flu. The spanish flu actually began in 1916 but largely went away that year. It never went away but cases subsided. It showed up on the radar in 1918 when cases killed a whole bunch of people. But herd immunity slowed it way down. Weaker mutations kept showing up until (I believe it was in the 30's) a new strain took out a bunch of people. In the 1970's a strain caused the US government to force the population to get flu shots. The shot took out a bunch of people in about 1975. "Oops, let's pretend that didn't happen" said Uncle Sam. In about 1994 another version arrived. It stayed until '96. Millions died in that period. Hell, it nearly killed me in '95. Spanish flu part 4 (or perhaps 5 because it was thought to have been a scurge in the 50's right after WW2).

In the American frontier days the flu wiped out Indigenous People way more than guns. Nearly every tribe on the east coast were wiped out in one winter. Yet the Eurpeon survived due to herd immunity. It's all written down, but most don't know how to find it or don't bother to. Over the decades many of my hobbies have involved artifacts. I collect old stuff. Between research, meeting experts and having a bit of rain man syndrome called asburgers I have learned stuff from a logical point versus and emotional one. In grade school I did not learn like the other kids. I did not take in the activities other kids enjoyed. While others played on the monkey bars I studied rocks and looked for "arrow heads". In little league baseball I spoke to butterflies while playing in right field. Yet logic made it possible to figure out how to put a sideways spin on a kickball so when I did play I would kick a bouncer that would lerch left when it bounced and resulted in extra bases. Logic caused me to understand how to create an ideal motion in my arm so when the ball came to me in right field and I fired it to the first baseman, often times he'd jump out of the way saying "I aint catching that". lol. 

So when the novel corona hit my logical "Mr Spock" like ways caused me to study it from a perpective like a doctor Fauchi would, or perhaps Forest Gump. Lots of stories I heard from my collector days gone by began to dictate what I searched for. It's out there. Covid-19 is new, but in a lot of ways it's very similar to other viruses. 

Suffice to say, we are going to be ok. Mankind has been through this many times before. Tragically some will be lost to it. One is too many. But like I said before humans do a helluva good job at spreading disease.


----------



## SCEMan

bykfixer said:


> So today I feel normal again. Phew. Thank goodness.



Here's hoping you stay well and take care of yourself...


----------



## bykfixer

SCEMan said:


> Here's hoping you stay well and take care of yourself...


Thanks bro. 

Ironically my allergies are the worst this decade. Oh wait a minute, this is a new decade. Make that worst in years.


----------



## bigburly912

bykfixer said:


> Thanks bro.
> 
> Ironically my allergies are the worst this decade. Oh wait a minute, this is a new decade. Make that worst in years.



Could you imagine how many deaths there would have been if H1N1 was being buffed up like this is with heart attack and flu and common cold numbers?


----------



## ven

Tejasandre said:


> How would they produce a vaccine if those who survive have no immunity?




Unfortunately i am no scientist. There is no evidence yet, that people who have had covid, are immune to catching a 2nd time. This is what the scientists and experts are saying so far. The scientists also say people who have recovered have built up antibodies to help fight future infections, but it is not for a lifetime. So immunity from covid19 is not a lifetime, more a few years . Even a vaccine may only be good for a couple of years. Similar to flu jabs in the UK, we get a jab for the more common flu's. This is an annual injection. From what i have read, it looks like a covid vaccine would be along the same lines and have to be repeated every X amount of years.


----------



## lion504

COVID-19 fatality projections approaching influenza fatalities. IVO 60k. Maybe those early comparisons weren't so far off?


----------



## Empath

Polio too, was a virus. Immunity was achieved through a vaccine. Counting any particular virus vaccine as impossible is not a sure conclusion.


----------



## bykfixer

Agreed Empath, but back then they cured stuff. These days they treat stuff. 

How about "now normal" instead of "new normal"?
Thoughts……


----------



## SCEMan

bykfixer said:


> Agreed Empath, but back then they cured stuff. These days they treat stuff.
> 
> How about "now normal" instead of "new normal"?
> Thoughts……



So many changes in the future that it's difficult to speculate what the world will be like. I've rescheduled our Viking Med cruise to next April but short of a global vaccine rollout I can't see it happening. What's sad for those younger is they may never experience life as I (and others in my age bracket) enjoyed it in the same way.


----------



## scout24

It would be nice if the Now Normal would include a lot of common sense. I'm starting to see plexiglass barriers at cash registers and customer service desks in the few businesses open in my area. Marks every 6 feet on floors. Signs everywhere encouraging social distancing. We go to all masks all the time here starting tomorrow night. Why wait? But fully 1/2 of the shoppers in my local grocery store this morning were not wearing them. Social distancing is being treated as a suggestion Old, young, local, out-of-state, made no difference. Can be a bandana, just cover your face. There are still too many unanswered questions as to immunity, long-term effects, etc. Open things up. Keep PPE mandatory. If people choose to ignore precautions and get sick, that's tough on them. People choose to drink and drive, text and drive, smoke cigarettes, etc. Not passing judgement, I've done plenty of things I shouldn't have in this life. All contribute to far more deaths a year than this will. All take innocent people with them, like being careless with precautions for the virus will.


----------



## BVH

coffeecup66 said:


> The numbers for France on that chart are total baloney (as shown in a link given about 15 lines higher up on that page !) :
> 
> - https://dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/ (official governmental page)
> 
> Also published on another official site
> 
> The official number of cases for France ("cas confirmés") is 109 252 cases, as of 14:00 h on April 17th 2020.
> Not 147 969 cases as stated in the chart.



Been thinking about this discrepancy. I'm guessing the sources for the total case numbers you're using, might not be including those cases that have resolved. When I add the cases and resolved cases together, it comes very close to the number of total cases (both current and recovered) that are being cited on my linked site.


----------



## Poppy

ven said:


> WOW beautiful CG, what a garden you have. Lockdown has never looked so good, i could cope so easy seeing that each day.
> 
> *So far no evidence showing those who have had covid19 and survived, have immunity . WHO
> *
> Scientists in UK are mass producing vaccines while trails are still ongoing, hopefully to save time and a success in the future...........fingers crossed for not too distant future!
> 
> Stay safe CPF



Ven,
This is a problem when they release poorly worded information. How often do you see that? 
I take this (there is no EVIDENCE ) to mean (there is no PROOF) ... to have immunity.

The question that has been stated over and over, is that they don't know "how long the immunity will last" nor do they know, how long a person who has recovered, who demonstrates antibodies, may still have the virus present. iE still be a carrier. 

How would they prove one has immunity? IDK. I think they would have to purposefully re-infect them. AND re-infection would have to be of a meaningful sized group. Each phase would take time. So I think that the WHO is saying that they haven't had the time yet to set up the studies, and complete the studies to be able to state that they have obtained evidence that has stood the test of "the scientific method" and withstood scientific scrutiny. 

There is a lot that is not yet known. But I have faith that they are working diligently.


----------



## scout24

Poppy- I think your second-to-last sentence bears repeating. There is a lot that is not yet known. Even if you were to pin the outbreak date to Thanksgiving, it's less than five months. Sixty days later before we really saw it here. That leaves 90 days to have our best and brightest working on it. While the rest of us try to deal with uncharted waters. We have never in history dealt with something moving this far and fast while we know so little about it.


----------



## archimedes

scout24 said:


> .... We have never in history dealt with something moving this far and fast while we know so little about it.



I would gently disagree, my friend.

History has been filled with infections, plagues, and pandemics ... including many far worse than this, in terms of both extent and severity.

And knowledge and understanding of infectious diseases in the past was, of course, far less.

It is the _response_ that I would say has been historically unprecedented.


----------



## bykfixer

In "our" history Scout. Total history had some bad mama-jammas prior to "us".

Hopefully "we" will never see another. But until humans have go go gadget virus sensing glasses the human race will probably succeed at more pandemics in the future.

Edit: glasses with Batman approved automatic virus zapper technology that is.


----------



## Devildude

scout24 said:


> It would be nice if the Now Normal would include a lot of common sense. I'm starting to see plexiglass barriers at cash registers and customer service desks in the few businesses open in my area. Marks every 6 feet on floors. Signs everywhere encouraging social distancing. We go to all masks all the time here starting tomorrow night. Why wait? But fully 1/2 of the shoppers in my local grocery store this morning were not wearing them. Social distancing is being treated as a suggestion Old, young, local, out-of-state, made no difference. Can be a bandana, just cover your face. There are still too many unanswered questions as to immunity, long-term effects, etc. Open things up. Keep PPE mandatory. If people choose to ignore precautions and get sick, that's tough on them. People choose to drink and drive, text and drive, smoke cigarettes, etc. Not passing judgement, I've done plenty of things I shouldn't have in this life. All contribute to far more deaths a year than this will. All take innocent people with them, like being careless with precautions for the virus will.



You should come to New York, executive order went in effect Friday night at 8 PM requiring face masks in public were social distancing is not possible. I went to Walmart with a homemade face mask and observed at least 10 to 15 people with no face mask in the store. If I wasn't buying supplies for my 78 year old mother I would not have been in that store. A few of the employees liked the face mask that I was wearing, but I thought I would have some fun with it. There was definitely a lot of people out today in that particular store then there was before the face mask mandate.


----------



## scout24

I was thinking far and fast globally partially due to our ability to travel anywhere in the world in 24 hours, and the corresponding freedom of travel we have... I do agree with extent and severity though. Have we had something move with this speed before? Honest question...


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> I was thinking far and fast globally partially due to our ability to travel anywhere in the world in 24 hours, and the corresponding freedom of travel we have... I do agree with extent and severity though. Have we had something move with this speed before? Honest question...



Probably not Scout.


----------



## archimedes

scout24 said:


> I was thinking far and fast globally partially due to our ability to travel anywhere in the world in 24 hours, and the corresponding freedom of travel we have... I do agree with extent and severity though. Have we had something move with this speed before? Honest question...



Excellent points, and yes, speed of transmission is remarkably rapid with most respiratory viral agents.

Measles is perhaps far more infectious yet, however.

EDIT - here are some of the stats for measles, including comparisons of both the pre- and post-vaccination eras ...

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles


----------



## nbp

Yes and typically for much of history people lived in smaller groups (compared to today’s mega cities), were more spread out and didn’t travel as far from home since foot travel and animals were your options. So something really nasty would just rip through a community, kill all susceptible to it, and burn out. Today like you said we have giant cities full of hosts, and the ability to send those hosts all over the place. I would think certainly mechanized travel as a whole over the past 125 years or so has allowed for the easy spread of disease far beyond anything in previous centuries.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

scout24 said:


> I was thinking far and fast globally partially due to our ability to travel anywhere in the world in 24 hours, and the corresponding freedom of travel we have... I do agree with extent and severity though. Have we had something move with this speed before? Honest question...



These numbers astound me. Don't these people have homes?! 



Chauncey Gardiner said:


> _Travel data of passengers arriving in the United States from China during the critical period in December, January and February, when the disease took hold in that country, shows a stunning 759,493 people entered the U.S.
> "This is an astonishing number in a short period of time, illustrating how globalized our world has become. Just as people can hop continents with amazing ease, the infections they carry can too," said Dr. Vinayak Kumar, an internal medicine resident at the Mayo Clinic and a contributor to the ABC News Medical Unit.
> _
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/disa...ry?id=69933625


----------



## scout24

Arch- That's a scary read...


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## archimedes

scout24 said:


> Arch- That's a scary read...



Yep, polio was vicious too, but fear and panic fade after vaccines become available ... and memories are short.


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## scout24

Guilty. Born in '68, part of the vaccine generation...


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## bykfixer

Vaccinated here too. A disc about the size of a nickel was pressed onto my arm and for a time later there was a scab. 
I was like 5 or 6 because back then not everybody went to kindergarten. I went and had to be vaccinated before entering elementary school. 

Back then every kid in 2nd grade had the same scar I did.


----------



## StarHalo

nbp said:


> It’s good to remember there’s still little flashes of light and joy in the world. This is a good time to reconnect with nature. There are some positive elements to a Slower way of life I guess.



Looking deeply helps us to stop, stopping helps us to look deeply.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

StarHalo said:


> Looking deeply helps us to stop, stopping helps us to look deeply.


 
[email protected]@K! A PENNY!


----------



## Poppy

Never heard of a money tree?


----------



## bykfixer

Face itch? Can't sratch with elbow? 





Try this: a cactus
It'll make you question just how bad _it really _itches.


----------



## ven

Mr fixer, the Q about people who we know who have had it. I can add one more person. I’m on shift cover tonight, a chap I know in work(another Mark) has been off for 3 weeks. His first night back was Friday this week.He has had it and been tested, his brother in law is still on a ventilator. He was put in an induced coma for 4 of those days. 

Marks wife wanted him to go into hospital (Liverpool) . He did not want to, wanted to try and cope.Worst bit was around 3 days or so, struggling with sleep and breathing at times. Said he felt like crap for a good week though, like a bad hangover that does not clear, poor breathing ,head aches and could only breath through one nostril (obv a variable , just part of his suffering).


----------



## coffeecup66

BVH said:


> Been thinking about this discrepancy. I'm guessing the sources for the total case numbers you're using, might not be including those cases that have resolved. When I add the cases and resolved cases together, it comes very close to the number of total cases (both current and recovered) that are being cited on my linked site.




Did you find how Worldometer comes to state a total of 147 969 cases on their April 17th chart ?


Taken from the french official governmental daily report of April 17th 2020 :
------------------------------------------------------------------------

- 109 252 : Cumulated number of COVID-19 cases CONFIRMED by positive test.


- 20 272 : Number of CONFIRMED cases by PCR test, located in EHPADs & EMSs.
This number is (already) INCLUDED in the total number of cumulated cases.
(EHPAD = nursing homes for elders, EMS = other socio-medical establishments)


- 38 717 : Number of POSSIBLE cases located in EHPADs & EMSs presenting symptoms compatible with a COVID-19 diagnostic.


Simple arithmetic shows exactly how worldometer comes up with their baloney figure (of 147 969 cases).


NB : I used the link given by worldometer, which is the valid french official governmental source. (just click back a day (or more) to find the April 17 figures)


----------



## knucklegary

Ven,

Glad to hear your friend is recovering. Is he much younger than brother inlaw or about same age?

Prayers go out to him and family🙏

Your friend Mark could be a candidate for plasma donation

Stay vigilant Mark!


----------



## ven

Not sure how old his brother in law will be, he is late 40's though. Quite possible, he is well up on flu's and stuff as one of his previous jobs, was producing vaccines. He went into detail about the process and how it works with 9 month deadlines. How the WHO mention so many potential flu virus each year, companies basically gamble of several. Many can go out of business if they gamble and produce for X flu's when Y flu's occurs. It was 2am, so my brain did not remember much!


----------



## bykfixer

On Thursday the US gov't says "14 days in a row with less cases and you can begin to relax the grip". Stage 1 if you will. Lots of states had trended downward a few two or three days in a row so many were shouting "hurray". Then on Friday and Saturday governors started adding "presumed" cases to the daily numbers. Innocent enough, right? Presumed cases going back as far as March though. Something smells fishy about that. Is it to get Uncle Sam money for each case like they get for each student in a class room? Or something more sinister, like governors lust for power has them playing dirty pool? 

Time will tell, but there's a lot bubbling under the surface in the US. You tube videos of a cop dragging someone without a mask off a subway, drive in churches being shut down, one governor bragging about signing "common sense gun legislation" into law during a national crisis, another saying "spray paint and tomatoe seeds are non essentials"…… 

Now where I come from, if we had the disaster like new york did and some fool got on a subway without a mask……the cops would be called alright. To rescue that poor fool. Well, someone would probably have offered the guy a scarf or a hanky first. If he got rude about, bad time to be a jerk buster. We got giant pickup trucks with giant decals across the back saying "feel free to shoot a heroin dealer" so those guys aint playing around with this novel corona thing.

Where I work at everybody is asking "is it true we're going to get $13 more for each hour we work since we are essential?" I respond "wow your company is pretty cool". They say "naw, it's coming from the government"…… First I heard of that. If anything that extra $600/week to unemployed folks might be what they're talking about. Many companys are saying "want a raise right now, just be happy you still have a job." So that has a few folks in bad need of a haircut feeling a little more tense too. 

Another month from now hopefully things will have settled down. Otherwise we're in for a looooong summer in America.


----------



## ven

Honestly Mr Fixer, i thing the globe is in for a long 2020. But................i am diggin the quiet roads and motorway for work travel. Kind of diggin dudes keeping their distance to. Yes its a mess, but there are a few positives in all this crazy.


----------



## bigburly912

The turkeys are definitely practicing social distancing


----------



## bykfixer

Speaking of turkey the store had my favorite turkey sausage again. A company called Jennie-O has a big ole turkey farm in Wisconssin and sell products like taco or spagetti flavored logs, and various breakfast products. Products that had been missing from grocery shelves lately. It was nice to see it back. 

Going out for groceries early means very few shoppers. Like 25 people in a 30k square foot store. By 10 the parking lot fills rapidly as others have decided to venture out. We wear masks around our necks and notice a much more older crowd is out early. Older folks in my community are largely retired military who landed here and stayed. I suppose since they were largely in shape throughout their career they get around very well. None were wearing masks today. Most were casually adding a little this or that to a cart. Then there was the one frantic youngster with a months supply in the cart, dressed for a chemical weapon attack causing the casual older crowd to make sure not to get in their way. 

A few people had masks. By the time we left it was up to about 50 people and there were some coming in wearing masks. Still not that many though. One thing I noticed is more check out counters open so lines are short and quick. By the time we had checked out there was one person behind us. They stayed far away. 

Still no toilet paper. Spagetti sauce, eggs, noodles, soups and other non perishable items were plentiful. Want barbecue sauce? Forget it. Still no Red Baron pizza and ice cream. No skim (fat free) milk either. There were still some gaps in the rice section and the dairy case, but little by little aside from the toilet paper/paper towel row things are returning to normal at our local grocery store. 

A friend from high school spoke to me from behind a mask. I had not seen him in decades. I had to say "and whotherhell are you again?" He pulled down his mask. "Oh hey bruthaman, daaaam you look as old as me bro" lol. He had a Dallas Cowboys logo on his surgical mask. Yup, that's him. He drove a Ford Tempo painted to look like a Cowboys helmet way back in the day. We didn't chat long as we both agreed a moving target is harder to hit. 

Things novel corona-wise are far from winding down in my community, but we're getting used to the changes. Most have given up on attending a baseball game this summer, but cross their fingers they can attend a football game this fall. Meanwhile a small parade is circling the main drag that is a big old square. About 100 cars and trucks are driving around in a "re-open our city" protest. In other words reopen the shopping mall, the barber shops, the paint supply store and the ma n pa shops shut down right now. We went from 0 cases to 1 a few weeks ago. Then 6 to 16 to 23 in one week. I aint scared, but I aint ready to return to normal either. Nope, flu season is extended this year. This year it's called covid-19. 

We usually relax by first of spring. A map of influenza in my state shows it is still wide spread. So corona or no corona, we'd still be in hunker down mode this year.


----------



## StarHalo

Mornin'!






The nice thing about quarantine prepping is three pounds of bacon and two dozen eggs in the fridge..


----------



## ven

I have written the year off Mike, not planning or looking forward to this, that or the other. But i am looking at positives, jobs n stuff getting done around the house that are the " when i get some free time" type stuff. Enjoying family time under one roof, watching more series, google fu'ing more stuff. Reading more on forums and swapping my watches more often lol. Seem to be spending more, topping up on more tools. Even started over the uncharted games on ps4(free downloads this month due to covid). Staying positive, doing bits of overtime here and there, saving a bundle in fuel to!!!

Its not going to be forever, i guess and hope by this time next year, pretty much everything will be back to normal. Just hope our useless incompetent government can support the small businesses and self employed. its OK giving the spiel , but actions speak louder than words. Any way no ranting, about to have a nice 16oz steak and finish ozark season 3 off. Life is not perfect, but it can always be worse.........much worse

Stay safe


----------



## Devildude

bigburly912 said:


> The turkeys are definitely practicing social distancing



Not the ones I have seen in the fields. Usually 20 to 30 in a 400 square foot area, but it is good to see them again last few years here in New York they were fairly scarce.


----------



## Empath

_Every time I hear someone saying "we're all in this together", I've felt like saying "define THIS". 
That doesn't really express my question too well though. Ahh.... but I found something elsewhere that said it very well._

I heard that we are all in the same boat, but it's not like that. We are in the same storm, but not in the same boat. Your ship could be shipwrecked and mine might not be. Or vice versa.

For some, quarantine is optimal. A moment of reflection, of re-connection, easy in flip flops, with a cocktail or coffee. For others, this is a desperate financial & family crisis.

For some that live alone they're facing endless loneliness. While for others it is peace, rest & time with their mother, father, sons & daughters.

With the $600 weekly increase in unemployment some are bringing in more money to their households than they were working. Others are working more hours for less money due to pay cuts or loss in sales.

Some families of 4 just received $3400 from the stimulus while other families of 4 saw $0.

Some were concerned about getting a certain candy for Easter while others were concerned if there would be enough bread, milk and eggs for the weekend.

Some want to go back to work because they don't qualify for unemployment and are running out of money. Others want to kill those who break the quarantine.

Some are home spending 2-3 hours/day helping their child with online schooling while others are spending 2-3 hours/day to educate their children on top of a 10-12 hour workday.

Some have experienced the near death of the virus, some have already lost someone from it and some are not sure if their loved ones are going to make it. Others don't believe this is a big deal.

Some have faith in God and expect miracles during this 2020. Others say the worst is yet to come.

So, friends, we are not in the same boat. We are going through a time when our perceptions and needs are completely different.

Each of us will emerge, in our own way, from this storm. It is very important to see beyond what is seen at first glance. Not just looking, actually seeing.

We are all on different ships during this storm experiencing a very different journey.

Unknown author


----------



## bigburly912

Devildude said:


> Not the ones I have seen in the fields. Usually 20 to 30 in a 400 square foot area, but it is good to see them again last few years here in New York they were fairly scarce.



Oh every day except the day i get to hunt I see a ton of them haha


----------



## bykfixer

Genious Empath, genious. 

Bravo. (man tears welling up)

All I can add it at the end you hear the micrphone drop and see the speaker walk off stage. :twothumbs:twothumbs


----------



## Greta

Empath said:


> _Every time I hear someone saying "we're all in this together", I've felt like saying "define THIS".
> That doesn't really express my question too well though. Ahh.... but I found something elsewhere that said it very well._





I'm just shy of 4 weeks of "stay home" now. One week in, my dog died. But hey... at least it wasn't my husband or mother or father or child. Have to keep that glass half full, right? 

My husband is working insane hours at Home Depot. Because of that, I have to basically quarantine myself. We both could very well be asymptomatic. But hey... at least we have a paycheck coming into the house. Glass is still half full.

I see on the news and social media all of these positive messages and yes, "we're all in this together". And seriously... at this point, I want to throw up. I know we're all supposed to work together and do what is needed to get through this "storm". But as Empath's post so eloquently pointed out _"We are all on different ships during this storm experiencing a very different journey." _

All I wanna say to those happy, positive, we're all in this together, let's do this, stay home, say your prayers, walk your dog, here's a cute little mask I made, blahblahblah people... We're not happy. We're not all in this together. Our dog died. And it took me three weeks to finally find a can of SPAM at the grocery store. But... I did finally find some. Glass half full. All that really means though is that I need more Tullamore Dew.


----------



## ven

I’m so sorry to read this Greta , thoughts with you all .


----------



## Poppy

Yeah, Greta, sorry to hear about your dog.
It's amazing how attached we get to the little beasts, and how crushing their loss can be.


----------



## StarHalo

Our puppies want us to enjoy the world the way they do, like the one time at the beach, the one time at the park; no need to fret for someone who will be waiting obediently, as always..


----------



## LGT

Very well said Empath.


----------



## knucklegary

Greta, 
Have you tried Spam "Chorizo" ? 
In the morning (or anytime) Great with scrambled eggs or in omelette (-;


----------



## Greta

knucklegary said:


> Greta,
> Have you tried Spam "Chorizo" ?
> In the morning (or anytime) Great with scrambled eggs or in omelette (-;



No, I haven't. I'm not a fan of chorizo. And I'm a Spam purist - the original only... sodium and all!  And since the advent of the air fryer... life is very good with Spam in it!


----------



## Johnnyh

I’m with ya Greta. I too struggle to see a silver lining in any of this. Millions unemployed, constitutional rights stripped, politicians drunk with power and never ending messages of “hope” from wealthy celebrities who will never pay the dues later. I’m beginning to get a deeper appreciation for Patrick Henry...Give me liberty or give me death! 

And I’m so sorry about your dog...I truly do mourn the loss of my canine friends very deeply. They love without condition, which is more than I can say for many humans I know. 

...I prefer the low sodium spam...honestly.


----------



## knucklegary

Chorizo in the morning does tend to wake up the GI system. With TP shortage, best not to take chances.

My first experience with Spam was livin in HI circa '68.. Grilled or cold served between slices of bread, or rolled up in sushi, the locals luv the stuff..

... now I am hungry 

.. that special last night broadcast simultaneously on three networks.. We watched 10 seconds, got a good laugh at how Ellen was suffering in one of her 10 million dollar homes


----------



## bykfixer




----------



## Greta

Johnnyh said:


> I’m with ya Greta. I too struggle to see a silver lining in any of this. Millions unemployed, constitutional rights stripped, politicians drunk with power and never ending messages of “hope” from wealthy celebrities who will never pay the dues later. I’m beginning to get a deeper appreciation for Patrick Henry...Give me liberty or give me death!
> 
> And I’m so sorry about your dog...I truly do mourn the loss of my canine friends very deeply. They love without condition, which is more than I can say for many humans I know.
> 
> ...I prefer the low sodium spam...honestly.



Just a gentle caution - let's try not to get too far into the political weeds here, ok?  - That being said though... the whole "liberty" and "freedom" thing right now really isn't an issue for me. I'm kind of an introvert anyway so staying home and away from people is not too much of a burden. Although I will admit that when I did go out and would see people who I care very much for, I was a hugger. It is very difficult for me now... I ran into a friend in the grocery the other day who I hadn't seen since before we got locked down. We both moved to hug each other as usual and had to stop. It made my heart very sad. 

I know we will come out of this with less "liberty" and fewer "freedoms"... much like we did with 9/11. But for whatever reason (honestly, I don't know!), I'm not really bothered by it at the moment. Maybe I will be later... we'll see.



knucklegary said:


> ... now I am hungry



Me too! Guess I know what's for dinner tonight!



Thank you all for your condolences. This is my girl, Sasha. Many of you will recognize that name...  - I did not give her that name. She was a rescue. And I adopted her 6 years ago because of her name. She would have come home with me regardless... but when I heard her name, I knew without a doubt it was meant to be... :kiss:


----------



## Greta

bykfixer said:


>



This is something I find very interesting. I worked for the County Medical Examiner about 15 years ago. I was the one who filled out the death certificates. I always found it fascinating how "cause of death" was determined. If you got in a car accident 20 years ago that left you with kidney damage and tomorrow you die from kidney failure (natural causes), your death would be considered accidental because it goes back to "complications from car accident". So people who actually die from the corona virus... without any pre-existing conditions... actually do die of natural causes. It's not accidental, it's not homicide, it's not suicide, it's not unknown. Those are the only five manners of death there are. Now if they have a pre-existing condition... say asthma... manner of death is natural, cause of death is COVID with complications from asthma. 

_"The cause of *death is the disease or injury that produces the physiological disruption inside the body resulting in death, for example, a gunshot wound to the chest. The mechanism of death is the physiological derangement that results in the death. ... Last but not least, the manner of death is how the death came about."
*_
Ok... so based on all that - I'm kinda skeptical over the reports that numbers are being inflated by reporting all causes of death as COVID related.


Edit added: As an add-on... we used to joke that if everything goes back to what the original cause is, then all causes of death would be natural with complications of being born! :huh:


----------



## archimedes

Greta said:


> .... I know we will come out of this with less "liberty" and fewer "freedoms"... much like we did with 9/11. But for whatever reason (honestly, I don't know!), I'm not really bothered by it at the moment. Maybe I will be later... we'll see....



I'm certain that the "frog-boiling" is being calibrated and recalibrated as we speak (or as we sleep) ....

Real sorry about the loss of your doggie :mecry:


----------



## RedLED

Sorry to hear of the loss of your dog they are wonderful friends, the best kind.

At the beginning of the lockdown I lost two cats in as many days so I know the pain.


----------



## StarHalo

StarHalo said:


> Today was the first day they did temperature checks at the door, if you're over 99.4 then you're out for 72 hours: no healthy = no worky.



Gizmodo wrote an article about our temperature check, this is what coming in to work in the morning looks like for me now:


----------



## bykfixer

When my 97 year old great great grandmother died in about 1972 her death certificate said "old age". Seriously. I was pretty young so don't know exact year because everybody who'd remember is also dead. But I remember the grown ups chuckling about it. 
Grandpa on my moms side died from "smoking" (heart attack), aunt Jane from "nerves" (major nervous breakdown), grandma on my dads's side "old age" (heart just stopped one day), grandpa on my dads side "heart failure" where his quit one night in his sleep, my mom from complications of a surgery but was listed as heart attack. My pop, it was a race to see which part failed on him but his heart crossed the finish line first while he napped one Sunday. Listed as heart failure. The Irish clan died of liver disease (go figure there), the English clan all died of heart failure related to smoking and poor diet. My uncle died of AIDS but his certificate said resporatory failure, when in reality his lungs were fine. He had a stroke. So did my moms mom. My uncle Stanley, they weren't sure why he died so they put "natural causes" on his. 

This whole corona virus is a mess. Society was a mess before. It will be a mess after. It'll just be a bunch of messed up people wearing masks now. Many were already wearing disguises every day, most just didn't notice. On a good note Mrs. Fixers 8 week furlough ended after 5 days. Seems all the youngsters in her store need someone to run Romper Room so they called her back. My de-bleeted goat dog who was walking around like a flamingo is now back to all four feet touching the ground 95% of the time and so far nobody we know has the covid-19 (knock on wood)
Sorry to hear about Sasha "Miss formerly known as Sasha" Greta.


----------



## archimedes

bykfixer said:


> .... My de-bleeted goat dog who was walking around like a flamingo is now back to all four feet touching the ground 95% of the time and so far nobody we know has the covid-19 (knock on wood)....



I really enjoy your writing style, Byk, but I do not understand these words in this order :thinking:


----------



## knucklegary

48 (update to 51) tested pos at a Safeway (sister stores: Vons, Albertsons) distribution center in Tracy, CA.. 
One worker dead ~ 100 working at time of contamination

^^ Frog Boiling are in trials at Amz.. as we speak Arch

LOL.. I want to see what a de-bleeted goat dog looks like! :huh:


----------



## Poppy

StarHalo said:


> Gizmodo wrote an article about our temperature check, this is what coming in to work in the morning looks like for me now:



WOW!!!
That's awesome, and extremely frightening at the same time!

Next we'll all be wearing EZPass ID chips on our wrists.


----------



## bigburly912

I want some frog legs. Yum. 

Sorry about your dog Greta. McKinley “roo” died yesterday. We’d had him for 12 years. He had a stroke and congestive heart failure. My wife is devastated, that was her best buddy. We bought him when we bought our house


----------



## RedLED

Sorry, BB.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

Is the Virus on My Clothes? My Shoes? My Hair? My Newspaper? 4-17-20 [ nytimes ]

_We asked the experts to answer questions about all the places coronavirus lurks (or doesn’t). You’ll feel better after reading this.

When we asked readers to send their questions about coronavirus, a common theme emerged: Many people are fearful about tracking the virus into their homes on their clothes, their shoes, the mail and even the newspaper.

We reached out to infectious disease experts, aerosol scientists and microbiologists to answer reader questions about the risks of coming into contact with the virus during essential trips outside and from deliveries. While we still need to take precautions, their answers were reassuring._


----------



## Tejasandre

Sorry about your pets folks. Sasha, roo & the kitties. My boxer whiskey just had an eye ulcer fixed Monday. 
Corona (to be on topic)


----------



## RedLED

Thanks, man. Hope your dog will be OK


----------



## Greta

bigburly912 said:


> I want some frog legs. Yum.
> 
> Sorry about your dog Greta. McKinley “roo” died yesterday. We’d had him for 12 years. He had a stroke and congestive heart failure. My wife is devastated, that was her best buddy. We bought him when we bought our house



I get it. Sasha was "Girlfriend" to me. She passed in her sleep laying against my side... as always. Give your wife a hug for me... I totally get it.


----------



## bykfixer

Onyx-the debleeted goat dog.
Mrs Fixer was a dog owner trainer at a pet supply chain when a frantic lady came in with a dog saying "somebody please help me with this crazy dog, my husband is going to shoot it". He is part long leg beagle, part gray hound, part black lab and part stranger in the night. His bark is part wounded seal yelp, part long leg beagle. Sometimes he purrs like a cat, sometimes he moos like a cow. No kidding. 

We kept finding stuff missing from the kitchen counter, from bedside tables and other parts of the house. Bag of Hersheys miniatures, gone. (must be the kids.) Loaf of bread, dish cloth, plastic container, just odd stuff missing. Turd check revealed bits of poptart box, cloth, hunks of a frisbee. But which dog? We had 3 at the time. We set up a camera and sure enough it was our newest member Onyx. He put his front feet on the counter, looked at the camera (and we believe he winked) and snagged the dish rag which was never seen again. 

The day he reached up and started eating the flowers off a magnolia tree we called him our de-bleeted goat dog. He is an awesome trick dog for Mrs Fixer. In the first week we had him he came into the den, laid down next to where I was sitting and commenced to opening up a package of little Debbie cakes…. "whut-thuh?" I grabbed it, threw it in a trash can and he went and grabbed it out and laid back next to me making a "moo" sound. Now by this time we were getting calls from neighbors asking whut-the-heck is that awful sound coming from your back yard. His wounded seal yelp was not a hit in the community at all. By now I'm thinking "no wonder the former owner wanted to shoot him, heck I want to shoot him. He'd see a squirrel 3 doors down and leap fences like hurdles in an Olympic race to go hang out with the squirrel. He'd leap the fence to chase the mailman. Not snarling or nothing but just "hey dude can we play fetch?" type thing. 

I had a rose bush vine that needed cutting back and used the cuttings like barbed wire swirls on the top of the chain link fence surrounding our yard. That worked. No more escaping. Oh he'd come right back, but the neighbors were not digging some strange goofy looking dog in their yard. One day he went flying through the house to bark at the mailman and his knee gave out. It was ok after a few days. It gave out again, then again so we took him to get it checked. The vet said his grayhound knees could not support his retriever body. We had the one fixed with a fake tendon. Doc said don't let him use it for a month. Yeah right. I kept him calm and on a leash to go out and do his business. One day he put his bionic leg down and raised his other one to pee. "You can't do that yet dog"……he moo'd at me. At two weeks he was using it like normal. I rehabbed him by walking him up n down his doggy ramp I built 10 laps 3 times a day. He was svelt like a grayhound soon. After 4 weeks I let him loose from his leash and he just acted normal. 

The vet said his other leg would fail too. I left the handicap ramp up. Now thinking it was only for a few months I used regular cheap plywood for a deck. Treated lumber left from my pops ramp was used for the girders and trusses. But the deck rotted. I was literally going to take it down when the corona thing broke out. I came home from work and ole Onyx was limping. When standing still he would hold his rear leg off the floor. The guy across the street said "now your crazy dog thinks he's a flamingo?" 

On Saturday he started walking on all 4 again but still held his leg up when standing. Yesterday he stood on all four again. In the meantime our governor had issued a stay at home order but I went to HD to get treated plywood for the deck of the ramp. That was the day I did the nose pick "step away from the booger" trick. I had an 8' long sheet of plywood on a cart. Me at the front should have meant 8' to the next customer. But a stranger wanted to chat. Corona was new, toilet paper was gone from store shelves and everybody including me were pretty nervous. But this character was not. So being as nice as I knew how I asked the guy to step away. Then he wanted to show me something on his phone and moves back in. I stuck my finger up my nose, pulled it, straightened my arm out in his direction and said "step away from the booger" "step……away……from the booger!!!" 

So there ya have it Archi. You asked what time it was and I explained how to build a clock. But that's the story of Onyx the de-bleeted goat dog/flamingo and a trick to get folks in the grocery store to social distance.


----------



## aginthelaw

I’m waiting for our vet to reopen. Bengal was supposed to be fixed before all this. Now his behavior is so aggressive, he growls at me when I’m at the table eating my dinner. The good thing about the quarantine is I’ve learned how to do a vasectomy. He has 1 chance left to stop biting me like I’m gonna carry his children


----------



## scout24

Let me know if you need a vet, mine's still working by appointment...


----------



## bykfixer

Thermometers. Good luck finding one of those right now. 

My son who works for a major drug store chain said his company is shipping theirs to hotspots. Nice idea. 

Mine is stuck on metric but it's an easy conversion. My sons stopped working and he could not source one through his company. We found some from the competition. It arrives next week. The big A laughed….. Want toilet paper? Ok eventually. Want thermometer? Ba ha ha ha, yeah right. Wal Mart? Target? Nada. Replacement batteries? Gone too.


----------



## knucklegary

Byk, there's always the good ol' mercury glass rectal style?


----------



## bykfixer

Weber meat thermometer is a bit more user friendly and available at Lowes, Home Depot etc for around $12.
Stuck it under my tongue……98.6. 
Sold

Uses an easy to find 2032 3v coin cells so replacing the battery is easy too. 
Sensor is 1" from the tip so it makes a good burger/steak checker too. I bought a spare in case we actually need one for food too.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

On the plus side, oil is below $-30 a barrel right now. Great for those still working as gas should be dirt cheap. I wonder if our president has to get Congress' approval to fill the strategic oil reserve if he can get the fuel for free and they pay him for taking it? We'll probably pay for this later as it bankrupts oil companies, but for now I think we should make the best of the situation. Good time to plan for a road trip once we're through these corona virus lockdowns.


----------



## markr6

Hooked on Fenix said:


> On the plus side, oil is below $-30 a barrel right now. Great for those still working as gas should be dirt cheap. I wonder if our president has to get Congress' approval to fill the strategic oil reserve if he can get the fuel for free and they pay him for taking it? We'll probably pay for this later as it bankrupts oil companies, but for now I think we should make the best of the situation. Good time to plan for a road trip once we're through these corona virus lockdowns.



It was $1.39/gal on the way in to work today. So now it should be about 50 cents right? Any other day they would jack it up 20 cents overnight if the wrong ant farted in India. Now there's an actual reason to change the price. Not holding my breath. Sure beats the $4.25 stuff not so long ago.


----------



## Fish 14

Covid 19 death are 50-85 times less than what was predicted. It's on par with the seasonal flu. It's time to open up society again, and get Americans back to work.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Z9AC9-oyg&feature=share


----------



## nbp

I do love the cheap gas. Lowest price around the city here is about 94 cents. It’s around $1.09 where I am. Pretty awesome filling my work truck for $25. At least it’s not costing me a ton to drive here and there trying to plug holes in the schedule.


----------



## bykfixer

Still a buck 75+ here. 

A couple few weeks back an oil rich shique got in a rumble with a Russian leader over something to do with Syria or something and decided to battle over oil. Over production was meant to lower the price and thereby prices, and costs. That was about the week the US stock market was already in ski slope mode. It was trading at about $22 a barrel before Easter. That's what's showing up at pumps now. 

Then the world hit the economic off switch about the time all that cheap oil started leaving ports. Right now there are hundreds of ships sitting on the ocean holding all of the extra. I had not followed the current price lately. (just read $31/barrel today at "business insider) The issue is the 160million barrels setting around unused. 

Futures traders gave up on it until June as nobody wants to buy any right now. It will actually cost the oil owner money to have someone take it off there hands right now. First time in history for that. Futures for May is negative $37/barrel. 

The US stockpile was filled up when it was around $23/barrel. It was stated the battle between the shiq and the Russian was settled and Mexico has also elected to "bury the hatchet" with oil producers. American producers are taking it on the chin right now on the world market but sales in the US have increased some with spring blooming across the nation. Lawncare, and other typical warm weather fuel uses are picking up now. Nowhere near the typical volume but with all the extra cargo being shipped to stay at homers it is a blessing to truckers, freight train companies and cargo airlines.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Correction, the strategic oil reserve was supposed to be filled. It was pulled out of the $2 trillion corona virus relief bill by you know who. It was supposed to be $3 billion for 30 million barrels of oil. A party that shall remain nameless didn't want to bail out big oil so it was taken out and no oil was purchased. Congress refused to let the president purchase the oil as they control the money and now the big oil companies are going under. We can purchase the oil for nothing now, but knowing Congress, they'll pay top dollar to bail out big oil at our expense. This is another "too big to fail" industry. We all remember how well it went for taxpayers the last time we heard that.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Hey Starhalo, would it be permissible for you to get a picture of the thermal imaging setup at your workplace? We're considering implementing something similar.


----------



## bykfixer

Thanks for clarifying HoF. I was not aware that the oil did not get purchased. 

Got my first haircut since the stay in place thing began. Mrs Fixer did it. Yay. It drives me nuts how much less there is each time the bush gets cut back to nubs. Lots of bare spots. Boo.


----------



## knucklegary

Blowing off some steam...


----------



## StarHalo

PhotonWrangler said:


> Hey Starhalo, would it be permissible for you to get a picture of the thermal imaging setup at your workplace? We're considering implementing something similar.



My next workday is Wednesday, but some online sources have some pretty good pictures; this is what the camera gear looks like:






So basically you enter at work, and that Wall-E head on a tripod and the person behind the computer are about three feet to one side and an X for you to stand on against a black cloth backdrop is three feet to the other; you stand on the X facing the camera, and almost instantly they give you a thumbs up. Definitely not some simple or inexpensive handheld setup, these camera rigs are estimated to be ~$20,000 each, and there's a whole line of them in our lobby.


----------



## RedLED

***Kim Jong Un on his death bed***

North Korea says he had complications from surgery but it could be COVID19. No telling as they lie about everything. 

Interesting, nonetheless.

RL

###


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

bykfixer said:


> Genious Empath, genious.
> 
> Bravo. (man tears welling up)



First I read this ^ and thought "Man-tears" they're ain't no damn such thing!



Greta said:


> Thank you all for your condolences. This is my girl, Sasha. Many of you will recognize that name...  - I did not give her that name. She was a rescue. And I adopted her 6 years ago because of her name. She would have come home with me regardless... but when I heard her name, I knew without a doubt it was meant to be... :kiss:



Then I read that. ^ 

SOAB! Man tears! :mecry: 

.... It's probably just the vodka.....


----------



## jabe1

Fish 14 said:


> Covid 19 death are 50-85 times less than what was predicted. It's on par with the seasonal flu. It's time to open up society again, and get Americans back to work.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Z9AC9-oyg&feature=share



The numbers are lower BECAUSE of the stay at home policies.


----------



## Fish 14

I beg to differ, the stay at home order cannot count for the 50-85 times less infected. Because there are not 50-85 times less people staying at home. Grocery stores are more crowded to than ever, home department stores are more crowded than ever. The only places shut down are movie theaters, din in, and gyms. The number of Corona cases here has been increasing since the shut down. It's not as bad as they predicted it was going to be. We are no where near the Spanish flu of 1918, and the numbers aren't going to come close to that pandemic. It's just another strain of the flu.


----------



## Fish 14

RedLED said:


> ***Kim Jong Un on his death bed***
> 
> North Korea says he had complications from surgery but it could be COVID19. No telling as they lie about everything.
> 
> Interesting, nonetheless.
> 
> RL
> 
> ###


North Korea isn't the only government that lies about everything. We see it here everyday.


----------



## nbp

Let’s keep it on the rails please.


----------



## Poppy

Fish 14 said:


> I beg to differ, the stay at home order cannot count for the 50-85 times less infected. Because there are not 50-85 times less people staying at home. Grocery stores are more crowded to than ever, home department stores are more crowded than ever. The only places shut down are movie theaters, din in, and gyms. The number of Corona cases here has been increasing since the shut down. It's not as bad as they predicted it was going to be. We are no where near the Spanish flu of 1918, and the numbers aren't going to come close to that pandemic. It's just another strain of the flu.


Fish 14,
Your reality, and my reality are so different, I'm looking for an explanation.
May I ask, what state are you in?
And are you in an Urban part of that state?, or Rural?


----------



## Dave D

Poppy said:


> Fish 14,
> Your reality, and my reality are so different, I'm looking for an explanation.
> May I ask, what state are you in?



It would appear to be a state of paranoia!


----------



## markr6

Fish 14 said:


> I beg to differ, the stay at home order cannot count for the 50-85 times less infected. Because there are not 50-85 times less people staying at home. Grocery stores are more crowded to than ever, home department stores are more crowded than ever. The only places shut down are movie theaters, din in, and gyms.



Similar deal here. There's certainly much lighter traffic from everyone out of school and work, but it appears they are at the grocery store and Home Depot now. I went to get mulch at Menards last night and waited 15 minutes to get someone to complete the 20 second task of typing up an invoice. Mulch. The garden center was packed of course with the weather getting nice.


----------



## bykfixer

Folks are frustrated. One day they say up to 2 million folks will die in America from this thing. 
Then it was "oh we hadn't thought about the 6 foot thing, uh, make that 200 thousand, 100 if we get lucky". 
Then "oh, um err uh, we're thinking 60k to 80k but think of grandma, stay at home"

The more data they show us the more many people thought they'd been ripped off here. "I lost my job for a lousy 80k folks _might _die from this?" Now they're saying it could be fall before "sanctions" are lifted?

So one is too many. But now mixed messages are stirring up the population. "it's almost over" is the theme. It's not nearly over but again the people were told 2.2 million people in the by now and it aint reached 50k yet. 

The whole thing is a game of chess being played by a group of world governments against a brand new virus with the power to kill some people. The governments are using strategies based on what they know at a given moment. The opponent knows nothing about chess, checkers, soccer or softball. All it knows it how to jump from host to host to host to host. The opponent has it's game mastered while government are learning how to play the game. 

And as long the human race does a helluva good job at spreading disease, the disease will always find hosts. The game will continue. The novel corona will lose in time. But at what cost to the human race remains to be seen.

The place to watch now is Ohio. Holy Smokes, they're coming through the field from way behind. Will anybody catch New York? Nope not even close. But as the home of the mardi gras, the Jersey Devils, the windy city, the city of brotherly love, Motown and surfin' USA are all jockeying for position good ole Cleveland is slicing through the field with new cases. 

The New York situation thankfully is on the good side of the curve. Mega mediation is paying off.


----------



## Fish 14

Poppy said:


> Fish 14,
> Your reality, and my reality are so different, I'm looking for an explanation.
> May I ask, what state are you in?
> And are you in an Urban part of that state?, or Rural?


Illinois, bud.


----------



## idleprocess

bykfixer said:


> Folks are frustrated. One day they say up to 2 million folks will die in America from this thing.
> Then it was "oh we hadn't thought about the 6 foot thing, uh, make that 200 thousand, 100 if we get lucky".
> Then "oh, um err uh, we're thinking 60k to 80k but think of grandma, stay at home"
> 
> The more data they show us the more many people thought they'd been ripped off here. "I lost my job for a lousy 80k folks _might _die from this?" Now they're saying it could be fall before "sanctions" are lifted?



Welcome to the exciting world of _modeling_, also known as _forecasting_, and less generously as _making an educated guess_. Add to the mix the many initial unknowns regarding COVID-19, incomplete data, emerging circumstances, and a media market for whom selling anxiety has become a fundamental business imperative so you keep your ears tuned, your eyes peeled, and those fingers clicking - especially that latter point.

Best I can gather, the reporting on the potential death toll has been the usual atrocious. Modeling these outbreaks - especially early on - involves making sets of assumptions so as to provide upper and lower estimates. The news business - always looking to drive up ratings _(and what they can charge for advertising as well as generating more impressions online)_ - grabbed one of the early projections and reported the worst case scenario where the disease was assumed to be more lethal than it really is, and we blithely did *nothing* until the medical system was absolutely overwhelmed. The numbers of course improved as more information became available to refine the models *and we undertook actions to reduce the spread*.

Did the _eggheads_ get it wrong? Yes, but only in the most distorted sense of the term since the initial models were known to be coarse things and were already under refinement by the time the initial alarming numbers were reported on CNN, FOX et al. But by then the cycle of manufactured outrage had spooled up and the _eggheads_ were mostly busy refining their models and doing what they could to further mitigate the impact while bloggers were busy gnashing their teeth, shaking their fists, and again proving that Dunning-Kruger is indeed a very real thing.


----------



## Poppy

Fish 14 said:


> Illinois, bud.


The overall population density of Illinois is only 230 per square mile.

About 12,000 per square mile in the Chicago area. If not for the population of Chicago, the density in the state would be less. 
So, in other words, are you near Chicago? The answer to that question would to a great extent impact your perspective. And help me understand your position.


----------



## Fish 14

Poppy said:


> The overall population density of Illinois is only 230 per square mile.
> 
> Over 5,000 per square mile in the Chicago area. If not for the population of Chicago, the density in the state would be less.
> So, in other words, are you near Chicago? The answer to that question would to a great extent impact your perspective. And help me understand your position.


About 40 min south of downtown


----------



## bykfixer

My space is more crowded than yours aint working. It's everywhere man. 
It's like saying apples and oranges both contain sugar. So do pears and plums. Each has it's own version. Hell I cannot tell you when the last time I shook hands with anybody. Even my grown up kids and I stay 6 feet apart now. We look at each other with a bit of suspicion these days. My own freaking kids.
One of the boys came by the other day and Mrs Fixer made him show her he didn't have a fever. And when venturing out for necessities, oh Lord if a person 75' away sneezes it's panic at the grocery store. 

This thing is weighing on everybody. Crowded spaces or the prarie. Perspective varies as much by personality as position. Circumstances for my neighbor differ from mine. Next door, one block over, across the river and 75 miles away. 

I'm just waiting to see if Kim Gong Irn fell off his skateboard and konked his noggin, choked on a Dorito or has the covid-19. We may never know what really happened.


----------



## 5S8Zh5

I have to say I like grocery delivery. I open my garage and they carry it in. Two orders and I've gotten everything I've ordered. I could get used to this post-covid 19.


----------



## Fish 14

Mis information and deception at it's finest. New data shows the flu shots are causing false positive tests for covid.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=BhLc3l5ROQk


----------



## Fish 14

bykfixer said:


> My space is more crowded than yours aint working. It's everywhere man.
> It's like saying apples and oranges both contain sugar. So do pears and plums. Each has it's own version. Hell I cannot tell you when the last time I shook hands with anybody. Even my grown up kids and I stay 6 feet apart now. We look at each other with a bit of suspicion these days. My own freaking kids.
> One of the boys came by the other day and Mrs Fixer made him show her he didn't have a fever. And when venturing out for necessities, oh Lord if a person 75' away sneezes it's panic at the grocery store.
> 
> This thing is weighing on everybody. Crowded spaces or the prarie. Perspective varies as much by personality as position. Circumstances for my neighbor differ from mine. Next door, one block over, across the river and 75 miles away.
> 
> I'm just waiting to see if Kim Gong Irn fell off his skateboard and konked his noggin, choked on a Dorito or has the covid-19. We may never know what really happened.


I get it. But the current death rate is less than the seasonal flu, so why wasn't everyone acting like this in the past? Data shows that the flu is killing more people than this made up pandemic.It's because mass media has twisted the story. I'm not buying into this whole 6ft, face mask and gloves BS. just go about your normal daily lives.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> _making an educated guess_...a media market for whom selling anxiety has become a fundamental business imperative...reporting on the potential death toll has been the usual atrocious...making sets of assumptions... The news business - always looking to drive up ratings...Did the _eggheads_ get it wrong?... cycle of manufactured outrage...Dunning-Kruger



Well that's not ideal, not unexpected though; the media projects a range of possibilities and some are worse than average, we've been through that with other events before.



idleprocess said:


> and we blithely did *nothing* until the medical system was absolutely overwhelmed.



*That's awful.* I understand the post is about the media and the media and the media, but history will remember what we did and didn't do, not what we projected. Especially for a people who boast about being prepared for these kinds of things, about being able to pull together in hard times, that's going to be quite a black mark.


----------



## mountaindewer

I've got a strange sense of humor, known to come out at the wrong time. The past few times I've been shopping, I quietly sing "Baby, can you dig your man?" and so far I've got just two hits back. 

A guy around 30 said "stock up on TP for captain tripps" and a very librarian looking woman around 45 to 50 said "Mr. King called this one." 

Humor can get us through the worst of times.


----------



## Fish 14

This time is no worse than last year or the years before. Just turn off mass media for a week and forget about the what Trump calls the "fake news". Life is so m much better when you do.


----------



## scout24

Mountaindewer- Dingdingding!!! 😁 Larry Underwood would be proud.


----------



## bykfixer

The pandemic is real. It would be best to practice the distancing and hygene stuff because even if you don't believe the covid is dangerous, the flu is still spreading in numerous states.


----------



## Fish 14

I'm not saying it's fake, I'm saying it's no different than the seasonal flu. Clink the link I posted, you'll then have a better understanding and more room for a argument


----------



## turbodog

Based on the numbers it seems clear that we are still in the VERY early stages of the whole process. I'd say we are <5% done with this thing. When states open back up the real fun will begin.


----------



## bykfixer

I clicked the link. Maybe time will show the covid and flu are about the same. 

But right now the novel corona being same as flu is like saying plywood is same as a 2x4. In the US it may end up with similar numbers of dead. Heck perhaps way less cases than a flu season. But there aint no Tami-flu for covid-19. The novelty of the virus causes the human body to react differently than influenza. American scientists will get a grip on this too, but for now the virus has its way as we learn who is actually vulnerable, how to treat it, how it spreads, heck even who has it and don't know it. 

I predict in a year or two we can say yeah it's just another virus. But right now we all need to learn how to thwart the spread while trying to carry on a normal life. Politicians aint making that easy. We should be more fearful of that down the road than this new virus.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

The lab did make that virus able to jump from bats to humans. This is not a natural virus, it has been modified. That said, it is here to stay, and there is a country who is going to pay.



https://youtu.be/Le_rfTdayLs


----------



## StarHalo

5S8Zh5 said:


> I have to say I like grocery delivery. I open my garage and they carry it in. Two orders and I've gotten everything I've ordered. I could get used to this post-covid 19.



Instacart has really gone downhill since the pandemic, it was way better before; I don't know what happened to the seasoned shoppers who were good at it, but it's all new people who frequently make mistakes now. It was always my second choice to the much better Amazon Fresh, but Fresh only serves certain limited areas near their warehouses.

My elder kid had a fever last week and is at this moment in the other room with my wife on the phone Facetiming with the doctor - that's a service I could get used to..


----------



## SCEMan

mountaindewer said:


> I've got a strange sense of humor, known to come out at the wrong time. The past few times I've been shopping, I quietly sing "Baby, can you dig your man?" and so far I've got just two hits back.
> 
> A guy around 30 said "stock up on TP for captain tripps" and a very librarian looking woman around 45 to 50 said "Mr. King called this one."
> 
> Humor can get us through the worst of times.



Thank god I haven't seen the "The Walkin' Dude" yet...


----------



## Empath

Fish, please reread this. At the least, direct orders from an administrator should be considered seriously. Come back in a week, and see if the thread has settled down enough to keep you from jumping back in.


----------



## bigburly912

M O O N. That spells temporary ban.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Thanks StarHalo. Yeah we got a cut sheet for a competing product but this is a better photo. I'd still like to see a real world installation if they'll allow. If so, you can PM a picture.


----------



## SCEMan

bigburly912 said:


> M O O N. That spells temporary ban.


----------



## SCEMan

StarHalo said:


> Instacart has really gone downhill since the pandemic, it was way better before; I don't know what happened to the seasoned shoppers who were good at it, but it's all new people who frequently make mistakes now. It was always my second choice to the much better Amazon Fresh, but Fresh only serves certain limited areas near their warehouses.
> 
> My elder kid had a fever last week and is at this moment in the other room with my wife on the phone Facetiming with the doctor - that's a service I could get used to..



Yeah no Amazon Fresh in our area and Instacart is hit & miss. We’ll see how a scheduled Walmart delivery works out tomorrow.

Coincidentally I had a FaceTime interview from my physician this morning since I was overdue for a checkup. Nice option. Looks like they’re taking appointments starting mid-June.


----------



## bykfixer

My supervisor walked into my little slice of heaven 15x20 remote office with a mask on mumbling like Pa Bear from that old hillbilly bears cartoon from when I was a kid. "wutch you say boss?" He rips it off his ears "dam corona virus don't make no dam sense, a man can't even get a good haircut". Then he looked at me with a fresh haircut and beard all trimmed. "howthehell you get a haircut?!?" I said I cut the part I can see and the wife cut the rest". "Awehellnaw my wife aint gettin' within 10 feet with no scissors, no siree". I said "boss, it grows back". He pulled off his ball cap and showed me a scar from the last time she'd cut his hair. "Good gosh was she trying to kill you". He chuckled and said "naw but I made the mistake of asking her for a haircut the same day I sold her 57 VW beetle". 

I asked if he wanted me to cut his hair and pulled out some paper scissors. He declined. lol.


----------



## turbodog

SCEMan said:


> Yeah no Amazon Fresh in our area and Instacart is hit & miss. We’ll see how a scheduled Walmart delivery works out tomorrow.
> 
> Coincidentally I had a FaceTime interview from my physician this morning since I was overdue for a checkup. Nice option. Looks like they’re taking appointments starting mid-June.



And from the lighter side of things:

If he wanted to check your prostate that would have made for a quite interesting 'facetime' call.

I once sent my doc some pics of a thrombosed hemorrhoid. He said he fell to the floor laughing.


----------



## SCEMan

turbodog said:


> And from the lighter side of things:
> 
> If he wanted to check your prostate that would have made for a quite interesting 'facetime' call.



 

Actually, my doc's a very attractive "she". But I'd definitely request that exam in person


----------



## KITROBASKIN

“The single biggest threat to man’s continued dominance on the planet is the virus.” 
*Joshua Lederberger

*_Ecological instabilities arise from the ways we alter the physical and biological environment, the microbial and animal tenants (humans included) of these environments, and our interactions (including hygienic and therapeutic interventions) with the parasites. The future of humanity and microbes likely will unfold as episodes of a suspense thriller that could be titled Our Wits Versus Their Genes

_https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK45705/


----------



## Johnnyh

I just thought of one benefit from all this...if it is conclusive that all this social distancing and mask wearing and frequent hand washing significantly reduces such an insidious virus, imagine what this could do for all the run-of-the-mill communicable diseases out there! 

Also, I wonder if we’ll ever see Howie Mandel in public ever again?


----------



## bigburly912

Don’t even want to get that started.


----------



## bykfixer

Washington Post? Call me skeptical but I think I'll look for confirmation from the horses mouth.


----------



## bigburly912

bykfixer said:


> Washington Post? Call me skeptical but I think I'll look for confirmation from the horses mouth.



Haha that article is special. Some truths but wow. I just went ahead and took it down


----------



## Poppy

Tomorrow is Earth Day.
https://www.epa.gov/earthday


----------



## bykfixer

Context BB. Yeah the guy said it. But what he spoke of was the timing. It seems influenza cases were on the way down when the corona ignited. If you have a peak season of both at the same time in large urban areas it could be overwhelming to the medical care facilities in places like Chicago, Pittsburgh and Newark. But………

If folks wash there hands, stay 6' apart and all that stuff perhaps the flu season will be greatly reduced as well. Perhaps subways being packed so tight a lady has to leave the train because her and her purse won't fit is going to be a thing of the past. At least for the next few years. 

As ugly as things are now maybe humans won't do such a helluva good job at spreading disease for a while.

Good read kitro. Over my head in ways but I enjoyed what I understood anyway. 

Earth Day? Hmmm. I'll bet the earth has a little less congestion in her lungs lately.


----------



## StarHalo

Poppy said:


> Tomorrow is Earth Day.
> https://www.epa.gov/earthday



A good time to reflect on that fact that more investment in green energy would have greatly reduced the market impact of oil's tumble, and that this reliance on an energy source in structural decline is a significant chink in the US' economic armor. 



bykfixer said:


> As ugly as things are now maybe humans won't do such a helluva good job at spreading disease for a while.



Watch Georgia.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Johnnyh said:


> I just thought of one benefit from all this...if it is conclusive that all this social distancing and mask wearing and frequent hand washing significantly reduces such an insidious virus, imagine what this could do for all the run-of-the-mill communicable diseases out there!
> 
> Also, I wonder if we’ll ever see Howie Mandel in public ever again?



If nothing else, it's been drilling the hygiene message into the public consciousness. I agree that this could have long lasting benefits. As for Howie, well we're all germophobes for awhile.


----------



## RedLED

Johnnyh said:


> I just thought of one benefit from all this...if it is conclusive that all this social distancing and mask wearing and frequent hand washing significantly reduces such an insidious virus, imagine what this could do for all the run-of-the-mill communicable diseases out there!
> 
> Also, I wonder if we’ll ever see Howie Mandel in public ever again?


I was thinking that with all the cleaning going on the NYC subway system will be clean. That's good.


----------



## lion504

Media and 'experts': "Masks don't work..."
Translation: You're safer wearing a mask.

Media and 'experts': "Stay home, stay inside, save someone's life!"
Translation: It's safer outside (UV, breeze, and in some places, heat).

Media and 'experts': "Don't take Hydroxychloroquine!"
Translation: Little to lose, much to gain. Why not try?

Media and 'experts': "What!#$%& Opening the state back up??? That's criminal!"
Translation: ..............


----------



## StarHalo

lion504 said:


> Media and 'experts': "Don't take Hydroxychloroquine!"
> Translation: Little to lose, much to gain. Why not try?



This bit of presidential wisdom fascinates me - Under what circumstances would you be in possession of an amount of an obscure Lupus drug, and find yourself thinking "Well I wonder if I should take this or not?" If your doctor prescribes it to you, then you obviously take what your doctor prescribes. Or if you're in a clinical trial, that would make sense. But who is it that has chloroquine just laying around and is struggling with the decision to ingest it? Even if you were some sort of hardcore drug dealer and you had some sample boxes of it, how would you arrive at a situation where you would need to make such a decision? "I might have Covid so I'll just go ahead and start taking this because of the president's advice." Who is supposed to benefit from this suggestion?


----------



## Johnnyh

I fully support the Prez...Bigly...🥰


----------



## wacbzz

StarHalo said:


> Who is supposed to benefit from this suggestion?



Forrest Gump gave you that answer long before the question was even posed...


----------



## StarHalo

wacbzz said:


> Forrest Gump gave you that answer long before the question was even posed...



I was talking to my wife about it and she was saying that a lot of lupus patients are being turned down for the drug because now there's a shortage - so how is there a shortage if it's just going to the people it's prescribed to? Is there a some sort of underground chloroquine black market now, and is that who the president was talking to? 

UPDATE: So it turns out that the reason 45 stopped talking about it is because in a recent VA study on Covid patients, administering chloroquine *more than doubled the death rate*, so much so that *more than a quarter of the patients died*. I'm using a Fox News source for the link so we can skip the fake news commentary.


----------



## SCEMan

Now it appears the first US COVID-19 deaths were at least three weeks earlier (2/6) than first reported.

https://abc7.com/health/covid-19-deaths-in-norcal-were-earliest-in-us-new-test-shows/6121252/


----------



## jabe1

The idea that this is just a flu is laughable. 
In one month, this has killed as many people as the flu does in a year.


----------



## bigburly912

SCEMan said:


> Now it appears the first US COVID-19 deaths were at least three weeks earlier (2/6) than first reported.
> 
> https://abc7.com/health/covid-19-deaths-in-norcal-were-earliest-in-us-new-test-shows/6121252/



Now that someone else has found that. People were getting this a month earlier at least, than we originally thought. Which, runs right in flu season. So the fact that article I had previously mentioned stated that we would be worse off if we were fighting covid and flu at the same time is redundant.


----------



## bigburly912

StarHalo said:


> Is there a some sort of underground chloroquine black market now, and is that who the president was talking to?



Wow dude, really?


----------



## Johnnyh

That abc7 article had my interest, then the piece ominously states “the United States now has 825,000 confirmed cases cases of Covid-19 nationwide, by far the most in the world...”. On the face of it, it’s a true statement but it’s a half-truth. Without factoring in population size and testing rates it’s meaningless....and an utter distortion. While the article about early cases MAY be true, this little tidbit they threw in there makes me suspect as to the veracity of the whole thing.


----------



## scout24

StarHalo said:


> I was talking to my wife about it and she was saying that a lot of lupus patients are being turned down for the drug because now there's a shortage - so how is there a shortage if it's just going to the people it's prescribed to? Is there a some sort of underground chloroquine black market now, and is that who the president was talking to?
> 
> UPDATE: So it turns out that the reason 45 stopped talking about it is because in a recent VA study on Covid patients, administering chloroquine *more than doubled the death rate*, so much so that *more than a quarter of the patients died*. I'm using a Fox News source for the link so we can skip the fake news commentary.



Far better to allow Bill Gates and his NWO cronies to forward their agenda of forced vaccines and microchips than maybe try an existing drug for treatment. You want tinfoil? There's some more for you. Yes, 45 is in the black market Lupus drug business. Keeps him out of trouble.


----------



## scout24

StarHalo said:


> A good time to reflect on that fact that more investment in green energy would have greatly reduced the market impact of oil's tumble, and that this reliance on an energy source in structural decline is a significant chink in the US' economic armor.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch Georgia.



U.S. has been a net exporter. Worldwide demand is in the commode. Contracts for delivery are set months ahead. There's no available storage. Green? Take a look at lithium mines for your electric cars. The notion of replacing oil with anything in the forseeable future is laughable and you know it. He who continually stirs the pot will eventually have to lick the spoon.


----------



## lion504

StarHalo said:


> Who is supposed to benefit from this suggestion?


Since it's a prescription med, people talking with a doctor about COVID treatment options... :thinking: Completely reasonable to push back against a doctor's initial recommendations and/or ask for treatments not initially proposed (by the dr) based on your own research. My experience is that the doctor usually gets on board when the patient explains their logic/preferences/risk tolerances. 

Saw that new study. Here's what the French study said: "Despite its small sample size our survey shows that hydroxychloroquine treatment is significantly associated with viral load reduction/disappearance in COVID-19 patients and its effect is reinforced by azithromycin." What to do when 2 sources reach two completely different conclusions on the same topic?


----------



## bykfixer

The theory behind the malaria drug is sound. It may not be the exact recipe to take down the virus just yet but it is a good starting point. Now when combined with an antibiotic cocktail called z-pak it can cause heart rythm issues. 

The corona has a key to unlock human cells. Once inside said cells it's reproductive stuff kicks the turbo in. It then alters those cells and spreads out to alter more. That in turn ends up with more keys unlocking more cells resulting in more production of more virus cells. It's pretty dang good at what it does. The bodies immune system goes into reaction mode and starts a bombing campaign to destroy the enemy. In vulnerable people or in some yet to be known why cases the bombardment results in too much colatoral damage. The body does a Hiroshima to itself in a way. 

The malaria drug has a key that fits the virus cell and opens up its reproductive part. Zinc murders the reproductive stuff inside the virus itself. The theory is the virus cannot reproduce anymore. The malaria drug has worked in numerous cases. Cases all over the planet. But there is a group in the US press who'd rather focus on what does not work. These are non mask wearing twirps asking the US president why he won't tell everybody to wear a mask. They all have fabulous haircuts too. Fabulous. 

The novel corona virus is a brand new thing. So to say "why weren't there millions of tests ready to go?" Tests for what? It had not been invented yet. The US was slow to act in WW1, but who won? The US was slow to act in WW2, again who won? The same public/private partnership that will win again. If one takes emotion out of their observations it's easy to see some pretty amazing things taking place. Not just in the US but all over the world as nation after nation defends its population against a pretty freaking amazing virus. A virus that by all accounts (thusfar) was never meant to be released but was meant to be a tool to build super duper anti viral fighters just in case a super-bug did occur. 

Blame it on Trump, China, Obama, WHO, the democrats, the republicans, a bat, an advark, blame it on whoever. It's here. It has to be stopped and it will be. Those setting on a pedestal tossing insults in both directions……left, right it don't matter would serve their neighbor better by trying to be part of the solution. Educating folks on all that the president is doing wrong is not part of the solution. Blindly taking up for the president isn't either. Stopping the virus, winning the war is what is important. We can go back to hurling insults later.


----------



## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> The theory behind the malaria drug is sound. It may not be the exact recipe to take down the virus just yet but it is a good starting point. Now when combined with an antibiotic cocktail called z-pak it can cause heart rythm issues.
> 
> The corona has a key to unlock human cells. Once inside said cells it's reproductive stuff kicks the turbo in. It then alters those cells and spreads out to alter more. That in turn ends up with more keys unlocking more cells resulting in more production of more virus cells.<snip>.


Good post Mr Fixer :thumbsup:

As I stated much earlier, if a person studied virology, he'd be amazed at how our immune system can fight a virus off and win. They break into a living cell, and use the cell's stored energy, to harness the cell's DNA to replicate copies of itself (the virus) until it makes enough of it self, to cause the host cell to explode with multiple copies of the virus, which go on to attack more cells, ad infinitum.

This is not unique to covid-19. That is how a virus works.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

bykfixer said:


> The theory behind the malaria drug is sound. It may not be the exact recipe to take down the virus just yet but it is a good starting point. Now when combined with an antibiotic cocktail called z-pak it can cause heart rythm issues.
> 
> The corona has a key to unlock human cells. Once inside said cells it's reproductive stuff kicks the turbo in. It then alters those cells and spreads out to alter more. That in turn ends up with more keys unlocking more cells resulting in more production of more virus cells. It's pretty dang good at what it does. The bodies immune system goes into reaction mode and starts a bombing campaign to destroy the enemy. In vulnerable people or in some yet to be known why cases the bombardment results in too much colatoral damage. The body does a Hiroshima to itself in a way.
> 
> The malaria drug has a key that fits the virus cell and opens up its reproductive part. Zinc murders the reproductive stuff inside the virus itself. The theory is the virus cannot reproduce anymore. The malaria drug has worked in numerous cases. Cases all over the planet. But there is a group in the US press who'd rather focus on what does not work. These are non mask wearing twirps asking the US president why he won't tell everybody to wear a mask. They all have fabulous haircuts too. Fabulous.
> 
> The novel corona virus is a brand new thing. So to say "why weren't there millions of tests ready to go?" Tests for what? It had not been invented yet. The US was slow to act in WW1, but who won? The US was slow to act in WW2, again who won? The same public/private partnership that will win again. If one takes emotion out of their observations it's easy to see some pretty amazing things taking place. Not just in the US but all over the world as nation after nation defends its population against a pretty freaking amazing virus. A virus that by all accounts (thusfar) was never meant to be released but was meant to be a tool to build super duper anti viral fighters just in case a super-bug did occur.
> 
> Blame it on Trump, China, Obama, WHO, the democrats, the republicans, a bat, an advark, blame it on whoever. It's here. It has to be stopped and it will be. Those setting on a pedestal tossing insults in both directions……left, right it don't matter would serve their neighbor better by trying to be part of the solution. Educating folks on all that the president is doing wrong is not part of the solution. Blindly taking up for the president isn't either. Stopping the virus, winning the war is what is important. We can go back to hurling insults later.



I blame China for making synthetic viruses including this one with poor containment measures. Obama even went to that lab with Fauci and after seeing it Obama pulled funding for that lab and Dr. Shi's work on making the SARS 2 (Coronavirus 2019) cross the animal human barrier. She used 4 HIV and an S protien to do it, although she denies modifying the HIV part she is quite proud of modifying the rest of her destructive virus so it could infect humans that was indeed her end goal. In nature it will not cross barriers to humans.

My last post has a link in it to a good video about what I said above, if you care and have an hour throw it up on your big screen.

I am more worried about even asymptomatic patients having serious organ issues later on. I myself am very knowledgeable about viruses, I have worked with Gilead in 2016 in anti-viral trials.


----------



## Poppy

Using technology to scan temperatures as employees enter the work place is one thing, but watch this video.
Using drones to check people as they walk the city streets, or play in a park.

Too much 1984 for me.
https://abc7ny.com/health/pandemic-drones-in-ct-monitor-vital-signs-from-above/6120499/

Too much George Orwell 1984. I don't like it... I don't trust it.


----------



## Devildude

scout24 said:


> U.S. has been a net exporter. Worldwide demand is in the commode. Contracts for delivery are set months ahead. There's no available storage. Green? Take a look at lithium mines for your electric cars. The notion of replacing oil with anything in the forseeable future is laughable and you know it. He who continually stirs the pot will eventually have to lick the spoon.



It is nice to see someone bring up the other dirty side of the lithium equation. It is never discussed much but should be.


----------



## Devildude

bykfixer said:


> The theory behind the malaria drug is sound. It may not be the exact recipe to take down the virus just yet but it is a good starting point. Now when combined with an antibiotic cocktail called z-pak it can cause heart rythm issues.
> 
> The corona has a key to unlock human cells. Once inside said cells it's reproductive stuff kicks the turbo in. It then alters those cells and spreads out to alter more. That in turn ends up with more keys unlocking more cells resulting in more production of more virus cells. It's pretty dang good at what it does. The bodies immune system goes into reaction mode and starts a bombing campaign to destroy the enemy. In vulnerable people or in some yet to be known why cases the bombardment results in too much colatoral damage. The body does a Hiroshima to itself in a way.
> 
> The malaria drug has a key that fits the virus cell and opens up its reproductive part. Zinc murders the reproductive stuff inside the virus itself. The theory is the virus cannot reproduce anymore. The malaria drug has worked in numerous cases. Cases all over the planet. But there is a group in the US press who'd rather focus on what does not work. These are non mask wearing twirps asking the US president why he won't tell everybody to wear a mask. They all have fabulous haircuts too. Fabulous.
> 
> The novel corona virus is a brand new thing. So to say "why weren't there millions of tests ready to go?" Tests for what? It had not been invented yet. The US was slow to act in WW1, but who won? The US was slow to act in WW2, again who won? The same public/private partnership that will win again. If one takes emotion out of their observations it's easy to see some pretty amazing things taking place. Not just in the US but all over the world as nation after nation defends its population against a pretty freaking amazing virus. A virus that by all accounts (thusfar) was never meant to be released but was meant to be a tool to build super duper anti viral fighters just in case a super-bug did occur.
> 
> Blame it on Trump, China, Obama, WHO, the democrats, the republicans, a bat, an advark, blame it on whoever. It's here. It has to be stopped and it will be. Those setting on a pedestal tossing insults in both directions……left, right it don't matter would serve their neighbor better by trying to be part of the solution. Educating folks on all that the president is doing wrong is not part of the solution. Blindly taking up for the president isn't either. Stopping the virus, winning the war is what is important. We can go back to hurling insults later.



I wholeheartedly agree. We need to stop the blame game and work together for the betterment of all humanity, the genie is out of the bottle and it is time to focus how to survive as a species.


----------



## idleprocess

scout24 said:


> Take a look at lithium mines for your electric cars. The notion of replacing oil with anything in the forseeable future is laughable and you know it.


The _plausible_ argument I see is to replace ICEs with EVs _where the use cases make sense_. I - and a large slice of the residents of my region with access to private parking - could replace my daily driver with an EV that has a nominal range of around 200 miles charging exclusively at home. My parents that live in rural AR perhaps less so since a trip "to town" for errands can get uncomfortably close to that range and unless you're making a relatively linear trip on certain interstate corridors in a vehicle whose maker starts with "T", public charging is still kinda iffy.

While there are surely humorless zealots out there that will insist that whatever a certain billionaire drew up on the back of a figurative napkin will suffice for everyone, they are not to be taken seriously since their arguments are clearly flawed.



Devildude said:


> It is nice to see someone bring up the other dirty side of the lithium equation. It is never discussed much but should be.



This is actually discussed all the time - it's just not the huge concern it's often made out to be. With ~~160g of elemental lithium per kWh _(first response)_ of practical battery pack that's an entire 16kg of Li for a huge 100kWh pack that's apt to last for a decade or more with the potential to either recover the lithium afterwards or repurpose the modules for years of additional service. In exchange, you need not _directly_ burn literal tons of fuel at millions of distributed points over the lifetime of owning an ICE-powered vehicle _(200,000 miles / 40 MPG = 5000 gallons of fuel at ~6 lb/gallon = 30,000 pounds or or *15 tons*)_.

But with all the hand-wringing over lithium _(or that other modern favorite, Cobalt)_ no one talks about the orders of magnitude more aluminum, steel, copper, rubber, plastic - themselves all damaging to the environment to extract, produce, and dispose of - that goes into _all_ new vehicle production.

EV's aren't made of and powered by the laughter of children and unicorn farts for sure - but neither is anything else made in an industrial society. _Reduction_ is the name of the game, not wholly impossible _elimination_.


----------



## SCEMan

Johnnyh said:


> That abc7 article had my interest, then the piece ominously states “the United States now has 825,000 confirmed cases cases of Covid-19 nationwide, by far the most in the world...”. On the face of it, it’s a true statement but it’s a half-truth. Without factoring in population size and testing rates it’s meaningless....and an utter distortion. While the article about early cases MAY be true, this little tidbit they threw in there makes me suspect as to the veracity of the whole thing.



Here's the article minus the "half-truth".
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/us/california-deaths-earliest-in-us/index.html

And a particularly relevant comment:

"That is a very significant finding," Dr. Ashish K. Jha, director of the Harvard Global Health Institute, told CNN's "New Day" on Wednesday.
"Somebody who died on February 6, they probably contracted that virus early to mid-January. It takes at least two to three weeks from the time you contract the virus and you die from it." If they did not contract coronavirus through travel abroad, that also is significant, Jha said. "That means there was community spread happening in California as early as mid-January, if not earlier than that." We really need to now go back, look at a lot more cases from January -- even December -- and try to sort out when did we first really encounter this virus in the United States," Jha said.


----------



## scout24

Idleprocess- I think "where plausible" is a good idea. We've had access to hybrids of several flavors and the all-electric Leaf for years with slow adoption despite tax credits, "cool points", etc. I owned a Prius C for a few years, and have a good friend with a Prius V with over 100k on it. I just don't see widespread adoption at the moment. Electric golf carts, as are popular in certain retirement areas, remain viable however... And they have to come from a major manufacturer with dealerships, spare parts availability, and service departments. Anything else is a regional boutique business model.


----------



## bykfixer

When I can pull into a filling station and swap out batteries I'll look at electric cars as more than a nice idea. But to pull into a rest area, plug in and wait for a charge……not for me. 






Happy earth day


----------



## idleprocess

scout24 said:


> Idleprocess- I think "where plausible" is a good idea. We've had access to hybrids of several flavors and the all-electric Leaf for years with slow adoption despite tax credits, "cool points", etc. I owned a Prius C for a few years, and have a good friend with a Prius V with over 100k on it. I just don't see widespread adoption at the moment. Electric golf carts, as are popular in certain retirement areas, remain viable however... And they have to come from a major manufacturer with dealerships, spare parts availability, and service departments. Anything else is a regional boutique business model.



I see a _surprising_ number of Teslas in the north Dallas area, along with some Leafs, Bolts, and the occasional BMW i3. Tesla in particular genuinely surprises since the Texas's dealer franchise law makes them far more difficult to purchase than other makes sold via dealers.

EV's aren't setting the world on fire ala the less than decade transition from _feature_ phones to _smart_ phones, but they're also gaining market share. The adoption curve was slow with hybrids as well but now they're a solid chunk of the market. The ICE will remain viable for the foreseeable future, but its market share in the automobile market is likely to decline as city-dwellers opt for EVs that fit into their driving patterns and questions around public charging infrastructure are settled.



bykfixer said:


> When I can pull into a filling station and swap out batteries I'll look at electric cars as more than a nice idea. But to pull into a rest area, plug in and wait for a charge……not for me.


Unlikely to come to fruition. A company called Better Place tried this approach and failed. Tesla demo'ed a system and started to put forth speculative plans, but the realities of the staggering capital expenditure of additional battery packs on hot standby and the costs this would inflict on the small number of likely users sunk that plan early.

_Fast charging_ is apt to be the substitute for filling stations. ~30 minutes to 80% charge seems to be the best balance of user convenience verses the difficulties of delivering so much instantaneous power and the inevitable performance degradation that frequent fast charging produces.


----------



## StarHalo

idleprocess said:


> _Reduction_ is the name of the game, not wholly impossible _elimination_.



Yes, thank you. My total electric bill for the year 2019 was $310 thanks to solar panels, I think this should be available to everyone..


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

New York issued a blanket do not resuscitate order for first responders for people in cardiac arrest without a pulse. The whole state is being triaged. If you have loved ones with a heart condition and live in New York, you're going to have to perform CPR yourself and possibly need an a.e.d.. Paramedics are ordered to just let them die if they don't have a pulse. Hope we don't have many people with heart attacks in New York in the near future. Stay safe out there and watch your diet.


----------



## bykfixer

In case you are wondering how to stay safe in this pandemic
https://www.facebook.com/550101874/posts/10156959299121875?d=n&sfns=mo
Some commen sense rules


----------



## sgt253

WOW! That order in NY state is seriously attention-getting. Stay safe everyone.


----------



## Poppy

Hooked on Fenix said:


> New York issued a blanket do not resuscitate order for first responders for people in cardiac arrest without a pulse. The whole state is being triaged. If you have loved ones with a heart condition and live in New York, you're going to have to perform CPR yourself and possibly need an a.e.d.. Paramedics are ordered to just let them die if they don't have a pulse. Hope we don't have many people with heart attacks in New York in the near future. Stay safe out there and watch your diet.


I think that you quoted that wrong.
It was about ten days ago, while the hospital system was fully over burdened, and struggling to increase their capacity, the order was given, if you can't resuscitate in the field, then don't bring them to the hospital.

That is hugely different from what you posted.


----------



## bykfixer

Context is a beautiful thing.

It's nice to see New York on the right side of curve.


----------



## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Context is a beautiful thing



Yeah, and to take stuff out of context, and then add one's own elaboration, and mislead out of ignorance, or worse yet on purpose, is a terrible thing.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

New York rescinded the do not resuscitate order today. I found that article about the order earlier today. News and events change quickly. I'm not trying to exaggerate anything. The fact that they had that order to begin with was disturbing enough.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Poppy said:


> Using technology to scan temperatures as employees enter the work place is one thing, but watch this video.
> Using drones to check people as they walk the city streets, or play in a park.
> 
> Too much 1984 for me.
> https://abc7ny.com/health/pandemic-drones-in-ct-monitor-vital-signs-from-above/6120499/
> 
> Too much George Orwell 1984. I don't like it... I don't trust it.



Interesting. I see an issue with the thermal imaging component though. Using a thermal camera to look for fever without a black body calibration source is going to produce inaccurate readings. The difference between a normal temperature and a fever is only a few degrees, so the thermal imager has to be extremely accurate, and this is only practical when it can see a calibration source of known temperature (black body emitter) within it's field of view at the same time that it's looking at the human. That black body source will draw some significant current so I don't see it as being something that can be carried onboard the drone.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Check the article of the order on foxnews.com yourselves. I did not exaggerate. However, apparently, New York city first responders blatantly ignored the order thankfully minimizing the impact. Here's the article: https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york...rdiac-patients-amid-coronavirus-crisis-report


----------



## KITROBASKIN

Funny!
So this (eventually not so) novel coronavirus can't affect animals but it came from animals eating animal droppings that were eaten by human animals, probably.



bykfixer said:


> In case you are wondering how to stay safe in this pandemic
> https://www.facebook.com/550101874/posts/10156959299121875?d=n&sfns=mo
> Some commen sense rules


----------



## Poppy

Interesting: It was widely reported that they were to not bring the patients to the hospital if they couldn't revive them in the field.

There was no reporting of the DNR directive.

Before the initial order was issued, paramedics were told to try to resuscitate patients found in cardiac arrest for up to 20 minutes, the New York Post reported.
New York City’s Fire Department (FDNY) and first responders never adopted the DNR order and instead adhered to the traditional 20-minute policy.
First responders said they were disturbed by the directive, arguing it went against their mission of saving lives.


"This guidance, proposed by physician leaders of the EMS Regional Medical Control Systems and the State Advisory Council – in accordance with American Heart Association guidance and based on standards recommended by the American College of Emergency Physicians and *adopted in multiple other states - was issued April 17, 2020 *at the recommendation of the Bureau of Emergency Medical Services, and reflected ‎nationally recognized minimum standards," the state health department's spokeswoman, Jill Montag, said.
"However, they don't reflect New York's standards and for that reason DOH Commissioner Dr. Howard Zucker has ordered them to be rescinded," she continued.

____________________________________________________

Just another example of a news agency not telling the full story, and singling out their target.
Why not mention the other states that followed the same directive?
On one hand it makes NY look singularly bad, at least the report included a quote from Zucker.
__________________________
Of course at the end of the article there are a bunch of twerp commentators.


----------



## bigburly912

Because it’s Fox News and they are just about as bad as CNN.


----------



## LGT

I’ve searched far and wide, but can’t get a definitive answer on how a covin-19 surge ends. Apparently, right now my state is a hotspot, how does it suddenly stop surging?


----------



## archimedes

LGT said:


> I’ve searched far and wide, but can’t get a definitive answer on how a covin-19 surge ends. Apparently, right now my state is a hotspot, how does it suddenly stop surging?



Massively oversimplified, of course ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farr's_laws


----------



## knucklegary

BB, Rupert Murdoch owns Fox what else would you expect!

A friend recently gave me some good advice. Turn off all syndicated news media

What a relief, I'm feeling much better today


----------



## bykfixer

Rupert saw "there's money in them there deplorables" and created a news outlet that runs a polar opposite of other tv news. 

Back when the Articles of the Constitution were being debated the meetings were held in secret because the press tended to sensationalize things back then too. Freedom of the press was a novel idea back then. The point of that idea was supposed to be a way of keeping the government honest. Well about as honest as government in general is capable of. Entertaining the audience has always sold papers. These days "ad sales". 

The press has always sensationalized things. Nothing new here. What is new these days is the ability to find what really happened quicker than 2 shakes of a lambs tail. A story from "the Post" (you decide which one) ran a story saying something like cdc dude says corona worse this fall. It led folks to think you think this is bad, wait 'til fall. But, a 30 second search led to a youtube video of the actual person saying what he said. There is usually truth in the articles, buried in a 34th paragraph on page D47. Who reads that far? Not many. 

Me? I don't trust the press anymore than I trust the government. Too many buddy buddy types calling themselves journalist on both sides of the American political spectrum. One side says stuff that tickles my ears I will admit. Yet I proceed with caution about that too before I decide it is truth or not. I trusted my mom. I trusted my dad. Everybody else I do like Ronald Reagan advised. Trust but verify. 






This potential scenario scares me way more than Covid-19.
I've had a good life. If it takes me out tomorrow, I just fear for our kids and grandkids.


----------



## Kestrel

OK Byk; if we could perhaps return to today's regular scheduled program, thanks.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

bykfixer said:


> Rupert saw "there's money in them there deplorables" and created a news outlet that runs a polar opposite of other tv news.
> 
> Back when the Articles of the Constitution were being debated the meetings were held in secret because the press tended to sensationalize things back then too. Freedom of the press was a novel idea back then. The point of that idea was supposed to be a way of keeping the government honest. Well about as honest as government in general is capable of. Entertaining the audience has always sold papers. These days "ad sales".
> 
> The press has always sensationalized things. Nothing new here. What is new these days is the ability to find what really happened quicker than 2 shakes of a lambs tail. A story from "the Post" (you decide which one) ran a story saying something like cdc dude says corona worse this fall. It led folks to think you think this is bad, wait 'til fall. But, a 30 second search led to a youtube video of the actual person saying what he said. There is usually truth in the articles, buried in a 34th paragraph on page D47. Who reads that far? Not many.
> 
> Me? I don't trust the press anymore than I trust the government. Too many buddy buddy types calling themselves journalist on both sides of the American political spectrum. One side says stuff that tickles my ears I will admit. Yet I proceed with caution about that too before I decide it is truth or not. I trusted my mom. I trusted my dad. Everybody else I do like Ronald Reagan advised. Trust but verify.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This potential scenario scares me way more than Covid-19.
> I've had a good life. If it takes me out tomorrow, I just fear for our kids and grandkids.




This picture is 100% correct. It is worth a re post even though I will get scolded about how slow your mobile device takes to upload these duplicate pictures. Just upgrade your device or clear cache partitions if your device is really that crappy. LOL


----------



## knucklegary

Worthy of a bookmark Byk!


----------



## trailhunter

Russia, n korea and iran are testing US response during these times.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## turbodog

StarHalo said:


> A good time to reflect on that fact that more investment in green energy would have greatly reduced the market impact of oil's tumble, and that this reliance on an energy source in structural decline is a significant chink in the US' economic armor.
> 
> 
> 
> Watch Georgia.




Just wait... Mississippi probably will reopen Monday.


----------



## turbodog

PhotonWrangler said:


> Interesting. I see an issue with the thermal imaging component though. Using a thermal camera to look for fever without a black body calibration source is going to produce inaccurate readings. The difference between a normal temperature and a fever is only a few degrees, so the thermal imager has to be extremely accurate, and this is only practical when it can see a calibration source of known temperature (black body emitter) within it's field of view at the same time that it's looking at the human. That black body source will draw some significant current so I don't see it as being something that can be carried onboard the drone.



I'd say this is where AI comes into play. Yes, it's not lab calibrated, but you can compare to the rest of the people on the street and assign a probability. Much better than the other option which is _nothing_.


----------



## turbodog

For those that are looking to make some sense of the daily infection/death data rolling in, I've found the following to be quite useful.

I have been tracking the numbers each day since day 1 (in my state). I take a rolling 4 day range and calculate CAGR on it. Smooths things out a little, helps to see trends that you might miss. Gives you an accurate number to use for predicting the next several days.

Excel formula: =(H42/H38)^(1/4)-1

h38: day1
h42: day5


----------



## turbodog

Cree XHP 70 LED said:


> The lab did make that virus able to jump from bats to humans. This is not a natural virus, it has been modified. That said, it is here to stay, and there is a country who is going to pay.
> 
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/Le_rfTdayLs



Extraordinary claims require similar proof. Given you are referencing a youtube video, produced by a chinese media group, known for propaganda and conspiracy theories is not helping matters.


----------



## Dave D

World Covid19 visualiser.

https://www.covidvisualizer.com/?fb...BHrfGDKpl98O-tW5Limicpf5xLRm2hksV4RIyNkM1hCXs

Click on Country or Territory to see cases, deaths and recoveries.


----------



## bykfixer

Neato graphics Dave. 

To be honest I only check every few days now. At first I'd be biting my nails "let this be the day of the peak, please", then it was check with dread "oh no we're passing Spain today", then I watched my state to see who we passed today "woohoo we're number 20"…… then I noticed a certain tension developing. Nervous tension. 

I just tune away now a few days at time. I watch now more to see how the early countries are doing. Spain, Italy, Germany, UK etc. It was nice to hear Boris Johnson made it. Man of the people? While US leaders show up on tv in polished fashion the UK leader has ramshackled hair. I can't speak for Britains but I know a lot of suffering Americans would be feeling a little more at ease if their leaders didn't look so well polished during this crisis. Others might decide a polished leader exudes a certain amount of "it's going to be ok". I suppose each would have their own reason either way. 

One thing is certain, this novel corona virus is sure teaching a lot of us just how fragile a life can be. Life as in here on earth, life as in a normal existence. To see a grocery store in America with empty shelves was shocking. Forget closed shopping malls and empty stadiums. This was a basic normal. Scarey. For many in the US it was scarey enough to panic buy. Yet for the most part no riots broke out over toilet paper or the last frozen pizza. 

This time next year hopefully the recovered numbers will be 99:1 versus new cases.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

turbodog said:


> Extraordinary claims require similar proof. Given you are referencing a youtube video, produced by a chinese media group, known for propaganda and conspiracy theories is not helping matters.




Chinese Americans headquartered out of New York. I am guessing you did not watch it, and if you did, you did not do your own post research like I did and found it to be true. I mean Dr. Shi is giving conferences in front of live audiences about her cross animal human barrier breakthroughs. Why would a Chinese news outlet say China was responsible? They clearly refute all responsibility for it as often as possible. Jailing and killing people who stand up and say the truth about what they did or saw.


----------



## turbodog

Cree XHP 70 LED said:


> Chinese Americans headquartered out of New York. I am guessing you did not watch it, and if you did, you did not do your own post research like I did and found it to be true. I mean Dr. Shi is giving conferences in front of live audiences about her cross animal human barrier breakthroughs. Why would a Chinese news outlet say China was responsible? They clearly refute all responsibility for it as often as possible. Jailing and killing people who stand up and say the truth about what they did or saw.



I'm not going to get into a post war on CPF. As of now, it doesn't matter if this was a chinese engineered virus. We have to battle it regardless. Did it come from china (geographically)? Likely. Do viruses jump species frequently? Yes. 

This was inevitable, regardless of country of origin, natural vs man-made, etc.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

turbodog said:


> I'm not going to get into a post war on CPF. As of now, it doesn't matter if this was a chinese engineered virus. We have to battle it regardless. Did it come from china (geographically)? Likely. Do viruses jump species frequently? Yes.
> 
> This was inevitable, regardless of country of origin, natural vs man-made, etc.




Yes, I agree no post wars, they are pointless. Everyone has their own observations and facts and opinions and that is fine with me.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

trailhunter said:


> Russia, n korea and iran are testing US response during these times.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk




I am just waiting for Iran to do it's little showboating again. Trump ordered the Navy to sink them the next time.

It was also funny when Trump said yesterday, we know more about Iran than Iran knows about Iran, and I am sure it is true.


----------



## lion504

According to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo a recent coronavirus antibody study showed the statewide infection rate was 13.9 percent (or 2.7 million residents infected). So CFR for NY (so far) is 0.5%.


----------



## StarHalo

lion504 said:


> According to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo a recent coronavirus antibody study showed the statewide infection rate was 13.9 percent (or 2.7 million residents infected). So CFR for NY (so far) is 0.5%.



According to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo a recent coronavirus antibody study showed the infection rate *of those tested* was 21 percent (*versus* *263,460* *confirmed cases*). *If the results of this 3,000 subject sample were extrapolated statewide, the number of infected would be over 2.6 million. *So *confirmed* CFR for NY (so far) is *5.9*%. *Link to source*.


----------



## SCEMan

lion504 said:


> According to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo a recent coronavirus antibody study showed the statewide infection rate was 13.9 percent (or 2.7 million residents infected). So CFR for NY (so far) is 0.5%.



That is promising. It appears ongoing data from testing supports an earlier onset and larger infection pool with commensurate lower CFR.


----------



## Johnnyh

According to New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, those complaining about losing their Jobs should “go get a job as an essential worker...” So comforting in these trying times...! I’m getting scared...


----------



## Devildude

I hear you. Store shelves are spotty but hey we are New Yorkers, we will survive. If spring would ever arrive that would be good. My daffodils keep getting covered in snow. I am looking forward to doing some gardening as soon as the frost cycles stop.


----------



## Johnnyh

Oh man, me too...I went out and putted around in the garden and started putting a new carburetor on the rototiller...winter just won’t let go! But you’re right, we’ll get through it...we always do.


----------



## lion504

The VA study that panned benefits of hydroxychloroquine... 
1 - not randomized. MDs selected patients based on severity 
2 - HCQ *late* in disease vs early when antivirals provide most benefit 
3 - No zinc

Also, not peer reviewed... yet.

4/22 Veterans Affairs’ Robert Wilkie on yesterday’s hydroxychloroquine study: "That’s an observational study. It’s not a clinical study ... We know the drug has been working on middle-age and younger veterans. And the gov of NY was just in the Oval Office yesterday asking for more"


----------



## bykfixer

So today it was discussed how solar rays murder the virus. It sounded like our surveilance department had their antrax thwarting team do studies in 5 gallon buckets to see how the virus does on plastic in conditions above the novel corona's favorite environment. Indoors at room temperature at low humidity. 

Crank up the hum-didity, add sunshine and instant dead bad guys. 

I got a visual while cooking dinner and listening to the presentation: 
G-men go into a Home Depot and buy 25 plastic buckets. They stop buy a Walgreens parking lot and offer to pay someone just told they are covid positive $50 to spit in 5 gallon buckets. They drive the Ford Econoline van to a park with a playground. Seven other vans pull up with a bunch of G-men in tyvek suits covered by HSA coaches jacket and aviator shades under their space helmets. 
So they drag out all kinds of high end surveilance gear, the buckets and have homie start spitting in buckets. Buckets are placed in the shade, in the sun and in between. High end gear records the covid in the spit dies in the sunshine. "Do it again" says one stormtrooper to the guy getting paid $50. He does. The gear shows virus gone in 3 seconds. "Awe cool man". "Holy crap that was awesome". "Do it again" rings out from behind the space helmets. That goes on for hours and homie is getting cotton mouth. "Hey, where's my $50, I'm getting thirsty"…… somewhere in America a fellow with cotton mouth who tested positive for covid earlier that day has not been seen for days. He was last seen being forced into a Ford Econoline van after spitting in orange 5 gallon buckets in a park with a playground in Somewhere USA. 

They also discovered bleach works too. And rubbing alcohol. Nice.


----------



## lion504

Good post :laughing:


----------



## RedLED

It was over 100 degrees here today, do we have to worry anymore? It will be over 100 until October.


----------



## Devildude

Johnnyh said:


> Oh man, me too...I went out and putted around in the garden and started putting a new carburetor on the rototiller...winter just won’t let go! But you’re right, we’ll get through it...we always do.



That is the beauty of upstate New York, we always keep moving forward. I look forward to being able to shake hands again. A simple gesture that I hope never goes away. Too many things are trying to change, we are humans. Let's be humans together not separate. Strength in numbers is one of the keys to this challenge, unity is our strongest resource.


----------



## RedLED

Handshakes go back to the Roman Empire, possibility before, they will not go away.


----------



## Johnnyh

I hope you guys are right, it’s become such a natural thing to do. It’s almost automatic. Very hard thing to break and feels very awkward to keep the hand in check.


----------



## StarHalo

That moment you realize you're a doctor and your national leader is telling you to "inject the bodies"..


----------



## RedLED

I think they will be around, Johnny, these things have happened before.


----------



## RedLED

Back in the term of President Geo. W. Bush, I was on a trip and looked in the back of the presidents' limo, and there were two things, an M4 with the clip in it on the floor, and a large bottle of hand sanitizer.


----------



## bykfixer

Hand shakes are a staple of life. But if need be we'll be ok with them for a little while. 

So yesterday I'm listening to the radio when this fellow says "and folks it seems smokers are less prone to covid-19, details after this comercial break". Well life interupted so I was not listening after the break. Actually I kinda forgot about it. Smokers less susceptable to a respitory disease? Nah couldn't be. So later I remembered that and looked it up. Buried among the quit smoking now articles by every medical journal in the states were some scientific studies way over my head that seemed to indicate in some studies smoking populations had less incidence of covid-19 in outbreak areas. 

There were small groups studied in places like India and France. There's even a trial being done in France with nicotine patches on hospitalized patients. Now after reading that I thought "aha, Chinese lab my foot this thing was invented in a Marlboro lab somewhere on the plains of America, neatly packaged in a packs of smokes and handed out as free samples at the fish market, at fairs and other places in China where bats are known to give off crazy biproducts in their waste that causes human plagues. Then somewhere in India whisper to some doctor "hey study smokers"…… so no need to sweat it. Just put on a jean jacket and a cowboy hat, grab ya some Reds and puff puff puff that cigarette. If it works they'll blame Trump for getting everybody hooked on cigarettes and never even a whisper that it was actually a big tobacco plot." 

The irony in the studies, if you smoke you're less likely to get covid-19 from the novel corona. If you do end up with covid-19 you're more likely to die from it due to the harm smoking causes your lungs. See, aint nuthin' free afterall. 

I say all this in jist, but at the same time point out how crazy many thoughts are out there on how to halt the spread and lower the fatality. Even if it kills you. 

We'll be ok. If the roaches can survive the ice age we can survive the corona plague.


----------



## lion504

RedLED said:


> It was over 100 degrees here today, do we have to worry anymore? It will be over 100 until October.



No, all good.


----------



## Johnnyh

RedLED said:


> Back in the term of President Geo. W. Bush, I was on a trip and looked in the back of the presidents' limo, and there were two things, an M4 with the clip in it on the floor, and a large bottle of hand sanitizer.



Wow...I like it...G-Dub knew how to survive a viral pandemic! [emoji106]


----------



## RedLED

I'm certain all the past presidents are very happy that they did not have to deal with this nightmare.


----------



## bykfixer

Amen to that red. 

If I recall correct the W did try to set up a pandemic response team after reading a book about the spanish flu sometime around 2005. It however did not pan out it seems.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

RedLED said:


> Back in the term of President Geo. W. Bush, I was on a trip and looked in the back of the presidents' limo, and there were two things, an M4 with the clip in it on the floor, and a large bottle of hand sanitizer.



I have yet to see am M4 with a clip inserted into the magazine well.


----------



## bigburly912

Cree XHP 70 LED said:


> I have yet to see am M4 with a clip inserted into the magazine well.



[emoji16]


----------



## StarHalo

“With all products, our disinfectant and hygiene products should only be used as intended and in line with usage guidelines. Please read the label and safety information.” - Reckitt Benckiser Group, manufacturer of Lysol, in a Friday release.


----------



## Kestrel

Cree XHP 70 LED said:


> I have yet to see am M4 with a clip inserted into the magazine well.


I wasn't going to say anything


----------



## lion504

RedLED said:


> ... an M4 with the clip in it on the floor, and a large bottle of hand sanitizer.



Good supplies to stockpile....


----------



## RedLED

OK! guy's it was late when I wrote that, clip thing...but that what was there. Now, would you like to hear about the snacks on Marine One?


----------



## StarHalo

Pittsburgh County Building rally against stay at home order:


----------



## Kestrel

RedLED said:


> OK! guy's it was late when I wrote that, clip thing...but that what was there. Now, would you like to hear about the snacks on Marine One?


Not in this thread.


----------



## RedLED

Right, good idea, I'll start an HMX-1 thread.


----------



## knucklegary

StarHalo said:


> Pittsburgh County Building rally against stay at home order:
> [edit: pic deleted for conciseness


Notice covid19 prepared camera man in rear, he's wearing mask, gloves, and a chest vest that'll hopefully protect him from sharp flying projectiles


----------



## PhotonWrangler

RedLED said:


> It was over 100 degrees here today, do we have to worry anymore? It will be over 100 until October.



Unfortunately it doesn't appear to go away with heat. The Phillipines have been quite warm and they're having a very rough time with Covid-19.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

:thinking: Wondering how many pounds have been gained from staying at home, watching the stream, eating Oreos and Cheese Puffs.


----------



## Tejasandre

Oreos will be the death of me.


----------



## wacbzz

turbodog said:


> Extraordinary claims require similar proof.



Love the Carl Sagan reference.


----------



## idleprocess

RedLED said:


> OK! guy's it was late when I wrote that, clip thing...but that what was there.



You knew what you meant, I knew what you meant, I think almost everyone else knew what you meant; this isn't _arfcom_ so it's not a big deal and it was an amusing aside.


----------



## bykfixer

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> :thinking: Wondering how many pounds have been gained from staying at home, watching the stream, eating Oreos and Cheese Puffs.



I've eaten more cake in the last month than in the past 5 years combined. My belt was getting shorter and waste getting thinner. My spare tire was completely deflated. It's back up to about 10psi.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

bykfixer said:


> I've eaten more cake in the last month than in the past 5 years combined. My belt was getting shorter and waste getting thinner. My spare tire was completely deflated. It's back up to about 10psi.



You know you've gained too much weight when you go to thread your new belt and the buckle hits your toe. oo:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

wacbzz said:


> Love the Carl Sagan reference.



Yayaaa. One for your side :thumbsup: ....... Wait. What's this? Make that two. :laughing:


----------



## BVH

Tejasandre said:


> Oreos will be the death of me.



I'd like a pack of Oreo's that have no filling, just the chocolate wafers!


----------



## KITROBASKIN

The country of India reports 723 deaths from COVID-19, and also reports about 20,000 deaths a year from human rabies.

Just wanted to say that a Coronal Mass Ejection hitting large areas of our planet is what scares me (humans getting really ugly, really fast). We won't be able to post comments on CPF after a CME if Greta's servers gets slammed.


----------



## bykfixer

BVH said:


> I'd like a pack of Oreo's that have no filling, just the chocolate wafers!



I would like a package of all centers. We should write Nabisco and see where it goes. 

Now regarding weight control, kharma has slipped a joker in the deck via a cracked tooth. As fate would dictate there's a sharp edge so each time I swallow my tongue rubs it. New adventure in pain each time I swallow. 
No dentists are open due to the corona thing so phooey. Pulled out an emory board and filed off the sharp edge. 

I have plenty of flab built up to live off of until my toungue heals.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

PhotonWrangler said:


> Unfortunately it doesn't appear to go away with heat. The Phillipines have been quite warm and they're having a very rough time with Covid-19.




How are you getting this information? The Philippines has horrible news. My GF lives there and I talk to her literally 2-3 hours in the morning and 2-3 hours every night. 

She said yesterday they extended the lock down until Sept 1. That is insane. She lives in Puerto Galera on Mindoro, but has been stuck in Lobo for weeks now. She missed the last ferry back to Mindoro over a month ago it seems by an hour. 

Anyway, she has to get a letter signed off to go to the market and to Palawan to get wired money.

However, the news she is getting is about as bad as people believing the aswang. First Duterte was said to have covid, then they said he was going to kill himself after all the aid money was given out. Which most people never got due to the corrupt mayors and local officials. She didn't qualify like most people. It is a real mess over there and a lot of people are literally starving to death I have seen it with my eyes. Very disturbing. 

However, she keeps saying it is like here, people want to get back to work but the military and police have them on lock down. People there either work for themselves for the most part or work in tourism which is 100% destroyed obviously. She said starving is much more of a concern to them than the virus is. The country is being ruled with and iron hand, and a person that is not very bright.


----------



## scout24

Byk- Same boat. Lost half a molar a couple weeks ago. Root exposed, every once in a while I see God if I'm not careful. I feel your pain...

As a point of information, the photo in post #1719, above, is from a peaceful protest on April 20th.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

scout24 said:


> Byk- Same boat. Lost half a molar a couple weeks ago. Root exposed, every once in a while I see God if I'm not careful. I feel your pain...




Oh, I have been there when I cracked my wisdom tooth. Pain that rivals capsaicin cramps from Carolina reapers. Hope it gets better. I squeezed about 1/4 tube of orajel right into it reluctantly, as I thought if it made it worse I would die from a heart attack... and instantly it was gone. However, since then I have tried oragel on toothaches and it does not work very well. If you can get that benzocaine, right on the exposed root it will take all the pain away, if not it can be a killer.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

I'm sorry to hear this. That is horrible, having to worry about starving because of being locked down and exascerbated by a corrupt government.

There are some reliable news sources that have bureaus over there, so news is getting out. They don't seem to have any advantage over Covid because of warmer temperatures though.


----------



## RedLED

70 LED, 

Sorry to hare are all of that.


----------



## SilverFox

Just to look at the other side...  

Worldometer is reporting that in the USA 110432 have recovered from Covid-19 and if we look at the world, the number that has recovered is 798772.

Tom


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner

Mod Edit: Adult language warning if you’re watching with kiddos. 

This - #giveusyourmoney


----------



## SCEMan

bykfixer said:


> I've eaten more cake in the last month than in the past 5 years combined. My belt was getting shorter and waste getting thinner. My spare tire was completely deflated. It's back up to about 10psi.



My experience oddly enough is the opposite. Since the stay-at-home edict I've actually lost weight (BMI = 22). I guess it's due to: 3-4 full days weekly watching the grandkids, walking 3+ miles daily, and not being able to eat out. I even downed a pint of low fat ice cream last night while watching Bosch, something I typically would never do. Now if I can just stay at this weight from now on...


----------



## StarHalo

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> This - #giveusyourmoney



If my boss gave $1,000 to every American who filed for unemployment as of this week, that would be less than he's made since the start of the year. Can't hoard masks but you can hoard money..


----------



## Johnnyh

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Mod Edit: Adult language warning if you’re watching with kiddos.
> 
> This - #giveusyourmoney



THAT was priceless! Thanks for the laugh!


----------



## knucklegary

CG..


----------



## Dave_5280

Some ideas -

[FONT=&quot]1. In the U.S. of the tests that have been done, 20% are positive for the virus, 80% are negative, this has held pretty steady for weeks.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. In New York the positive test rate is about 40% and in New Jersey it is about 50%.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. The Santa Clara antibody testing study by Stanford predicts that the actual infection rate is 50 to 85 times the confirmed tested-positive case count, this similar to earlier predictions.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. Using 50X or 85X significantly decreases the actual infection rate to mortality rate is .3 to .1 % (tenths of a percent)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. Many drugs being tested and vaccines being researched.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6. Some people who get infected initially don't respond and then over-respond producing a cytokine storm (protein) that causes damage to organs, kidney, and fills lungs with fluid.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7. Serious blood clots are now starting to show up, one case in the news where they removed the patient's leg to save him.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8. U.S. testing ramped up to now doing 150,000 tests a day and continuing to increase.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9. Scary when patients go into the hospital, put on vent in 12 hours, some in a coma state (drugs), and die without ever coming out or getting to say goodbye to loved ones.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10. Not always elderly, there was a 21 year old male, healthy, athletic, college student that died recently.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11. Not all states report enough data to show the stream of infection rate, hospitalization rate, intensive care rate, mortality rate, but I've seen numbers like 20%-24%-20%-65%.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12. Population densities push up the infection rates as expected, Italy has 525 people per square mile, the U.S. has 92 per square mile.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13. Cost estimates in the U.S. per case in the hospital are from $20,000 to $72,000 and some higher.[/FONT]


----------



## RedLED

SCEMan said:


> My experience oddly enough is the opposite. Since the stay-at-home edict I've actually lost weight (~4 lbs.). I guess it's due to: 3-4 full days weekly watching the grandkids, walking 3+ miles daily, and not being able to eat out. I even downed a pint of low fat ice cream last night while watching Bosch, something I typically would never do. Now if I can just stay at this weight from now on...


Tonight a prime steak, with fries, onions and peppers. Tomorrow, In N Out for cheeseburgers, fries, and several shakes.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

RedLED said:


> Tonight a prime steak, with fries, onions and peppers. Tomorrow, In N Out for cheeseburgers, fries, and several shakes.




In other words death. LOL. Kidding. I had fast food tonight for the first time in 6 months or longer. Tomorrow is pork chops and butternut squash with another veggie most likely.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Tomorrow, In N Out for cheeseburgers, fries, and several shakes.



You waiting in line?


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> Byk- Same boat. Lost half a molar a couple weeks ago. Root exposed, every once in a while I see God if I'm not careful. I feel your pain...



I had an exposed root once Scout. I'll take the sliced tongue from sharp edge over that any day. Exposed root aint no joke. Best regards bro. Gracious sakes alive.


----------



## Poppy

scout24
my brother once did an emergency repair on a tooth, IDK which product he used, but he picked it up at a pharmacy.
A quick google search of "emergency tooth repair kit" gave a number of hits.

Good luck.


----------



## ven

+1 poppy

Pharmacy should sell temp repair kits to apply yourself. They work and should last a few week(so worth buying enough in , just in case). It sets hard on the tooth. Sorry to hear scout, its far from fun. Now i just get them took out, once they say root canal treatment. In the UK that means several visits over weeks/month of pain, to only have it removed anyway. My dentist appointment for May was put back to Oct, not even sure what to do come emergency. Might possibly mean hospital, then at even more risk!. 

Stay safe all, hope can get a temp fix local scout.


----------



## RedLED

StarHalo said:


> You waiting in line?


Sure, I'll wait in line...where else do I have to be, Chief?!


----------



## RedLED

Cree XHP 70 LED said:


> In other words death. LOL. Kidding. I had fast food tonight for the first time in 6 months or longer. Tomorrow is pork chops and butternut squash with another veggie most likely.


Nah, Ive been eating like that for decades. No worries around here.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

RedLED said:


> Nah, Ive been eating like that for decades. No worries around here.




Yes, decades is what the killer is, now worries your already nice and clogged.


----------



## Lumen83

Some how I've lost 20 pounds since being in quarantine over two months ago. My eating habits used to be just terrible. I ate out about 50% of the time and it was usually burger and fries or pizza. I also probably averaged 6 beers per day. But not having had a beer in a couple months (I still have a whiskey or two per night), walking about 3 miles a day, and eating home cooked meals with no fried foods, I'm dropping weight like crazy. That has been the only plus for me. This is the first time in years that my bra size is actually smaller than my girlfriends.


----------



## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Sure, I'll wait in line...where else do I have to be, Chief?!



Don't forget your mask


----------



## bykfixer

I have a friend who has a "home comfort" business and has had to pivot into being a plumber instead due to essential vs non essential decisions. 

He was doing jobs like converting old inefficient oil burning heaters to efficient natural gas units but……not essential. 
Instead he now installs new kitchen sinks because……wait for it…… essential. He cannot even get parts in his state right now to fix broken air conditioners but he is able to source walk in tubs. 
Crazy times. 

Scout, I really wish I knew of a bykfixer mod for an exposed nerve beyond dental wax or like they did in the old west. The phrase "bit the bullet" came from an old world tooth covering made from a bullet casing. Last ditch effort that cowboys driving cattle from one range to a market town was apparently a fairly effective "nerve" cover. Usually installed after lots of whiskey was ingested. When they eventually arrived at a place with a dentist the tooth was usually extracted.


----------



## RedLED

Cree XHP 70 LED said:


> Yes, decades is what the killer is, now worries your already nice and clogged.


Not necessarily.


----------



## scout24

Poppy, Byk- My local Rite Aid drug store had a product called Dentemp. A VERY small pop top container of dental cement for lack of a better word. Pack it in place carefully, bite down carefully, and it hardens nicely. Just need to be careful now and call around on Monday to see about an "emergency" exam to see what's what. 👍


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

Lumen83 said:


> Some how I've lost 20 pounds since being in quarantine over two months ago. My eating habits used to be just terrible. I ate out about 50% of the time and it was usually burger and fries or pizza. I also probably averaged 6 beers per day. But not having had a beer in a couple months (I still have a whiskey or two per night), walking about 3 miles a day, and eating home cooked meals with no fried foods, I'm dropping weight like crazy. That has been the only plus for me. This is the first time in years that my bra size is actually smaller than my girlfriends.



That is good news keep it up!

I used to be horrible too. I ate out every single meal, most of which was fast food, which isn't really food at all, but chemicals. I also drank 12-18 coronas every single day. Not good at all.

I am 158 pounds and 6 foot tall now. Stronger and healthier than I ever have been. I get nauseated when I eat fast food now. For some odd reason I didn't yesterday though. No more fast food until next year for me, once you get used to good food it is like anything else. The bad stuff starts tasting horrible. Like when you switch from your old car to a new high performance machine.


----------



## Cree XHP 70 LED

scout24 said:


> Poppy, Byk- My local Rite Aid drug store had a product called Dentemp. A VERY small pop top container of dental cement for lack of a better word. Pack it in place carefully, bite down carefully, and it hardens nicely. Just need to be careful now and call around on Monday to see about an "emergency" exam to see what's what. 




I am lucky I can call my dentist and he will meet me at the office 24/7, but oral surgery he does not do. Not sure about extractions as I have only had my wisdom teeth removed.


----------



## bykfixer

scout24 said:


> Poppy, Byk- My local Rite Aid drug store had a product called Dentemp. A VERY small pop top container of dental cement for lack of a better word. Pack it in place carefully, bite down carefully, and it hardens nicely. Just need to be careful now and call around on Monday to see about an "emergency" exam to see what's what. 


That modern day "bite the bullet" sounds way better. 

My governor announced his plan to re-open the state yesterday. I watched it 3x and still don't know what he actually said. He did say it will be statewide and not by region. He did say it will happen. What "it" is was where things are kinda fuzzy. Elective surgeries will be back next week though so that's cool. 
He said "face coverings" will be reccomended (not required) and that the guidelines by the feds is the model he will use. 

Can anybody imagine how much pressure is on governors right now? Balancing economics with possible side affects of increased spread of a brand new virus. Wow!! Meanwhile ambulance chasers are just waiting to start their new tv ads for making sure those wrongfully blah blah blah. Business fails, it's the governors fault. People die, it's the governors fault. As diverse as the American economy is that is a daunting task at the least, practially impossible at the worst. 

Who would want that? It aint like putting the pin back in the hand grenade as much as picking the red wire or the blue wire to defuse a bomb and oh yeah, you're color blind. 

One thing can be learned from the spanish flu from history. Too much too soon is not a good idea.


----------



## Hooked on Fenix

Lumen83 said:


> Some how I've lost 20 pounds since being in quarantine over two months ago. My eating habits used to be just terrible. I ate out about 50% of the time and it was usually burger and fries or pizza. I also probably averaged 6 beers per day. But not having had a beer in a couple months (I still have a whiskey or two per night), walking about 3 miles a day, and eating home cooked meals with no fried foods, I'm dropping weight like crazy. That has been the only plus for me. This is the first time in years that my bra size is actually smaller than my girlfriends.



Hops has more phytoestrogens than anything else. Estrogen stores in fat, mainly belly fat. It also causes breast enlargement in men and women. A lot of fast food restaurants expose you to xenoestrogens from chemicals and plastics. The less fast food you eat and the less alcohol you drink, the more weight you'll lose and the healthier you'll be. Avoid the hormone imbalance that these foods cause or you'll get fat and lose your muscle mass. Fat stores estrogen and the more fat you have, the more aromatase you have in your fat as well. Aromatase is an enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen. If you exercise a lot but are not dieting (and have a hormone imbalance), the testosterone produced can turn to estrogen and actually make your muscles shrink.


----------



## PhotonWrangler

Lumen83 said:


> Some how I've lost 20 pounds since being in quarantine over two months ago. My eating habits used to be just terrible. I ate out about 50% of the time and it was usually burger and fries or pizza. I also probably averaged 6 beers per day. But not having had a beer in a couple months (I still have a whiskey or two per night), walking about 3 miles a day, and eating home cooked meals with no fried foods, I'm dropping weight like crazy. That has been the only plus for me. This is the first time in years that my bra size is actually smaller than my girlfriends.



Congrats on dropping the fried foods, Lumen83. That stuff is so bad for you. I've felt so much better after giving up fried foods a long time ago.


----------



## bykfixer

Congrats on losing 20 pounds 83.

Uh, I found them. If you want them back just text "longer belt wanted" and I'll get them out right away.


----------



## StarHalo

Maryland records over 100 calls to their poison control hotline for people asking about the benefits of drinking/injecting disinfectants. New York's call center volume doubled from this time last year. 

It turns out Millennials were ahead of the curve with Tide Pods..


----------



## nbp

A lot of people... are not very bright. [emoji53]


----------



## scout24

My oldest sent me a meme yesterday: 
"The spread of the virus seems to be dependent on two things:
1. The density of the population.
2. The density of the population.

If you think they're the same, you're the second one..."


----------



## bykfixer

Good one Scout


----------



## Poppy

A few days ago my daughter won a lottery for a shop from home, to a "Shop Rite" ( a large chain supermarket) about 30 minutes from our home. She won a date and time to pick up an order she would place on-line. She placed an order, gave her name and credit card number and was given a pick up number. Three days later I was on a mission.

It was the first time I was out in a week and a half, and in the mean-time a MUST wear a face mask in public, order was placed. I drove through a neighborhood of multi-million dollar homes. The store is in a very upscale town. It struck me that everyone really kept their distance, and that everyone had a mask on. It really felt different. Respectful.

An attendant approached my rolled down window, verified my name and order number and another attendant brought out my shopping carts of food. Bags of tostitos take up a lot of room  While waiting for my food to arrive, a gentleman parked in front of me was struggling to return his cart, up a slight grade, without touching it with his hands. Trying to push it and steer it with his foot. It was comical. Personally I had to respect him for being respectful of others by not leaving his cart in the lot, in the way of others, or to roll down the hill and strike other parked cars. On the other hand, to be so concerned about touching the handle, that when he finally did, he used BOTH Hands!  :shakehead


----------



## lion504

Real News: @realDonaldTrump speculated about far-UV light catheter technology that was recently in the news, and apparently Dr. Birx was not familiar with it.

Fake News: Trump asked Dr. Birx about injecting disinfectants into #coronavirus patients.


----------



## trailhunter

Lumen83 said:


> Some how I've lost 20 pounds since being in quarantine over two months ago. My eating habits used to be just terrible. I ate out about 50% of the time and it was usually burger and fries or pizza. I also probably averaged 6 beers per day. But not having had a beer in a couple months (I still have a whiskey or two per night), walking about 3 miles a day, and eating home cooked meals with no fried foods, I'm dropping weight like crazy. That has been the only plus for me. This is the first time in years that my bra size is actually smaller than my girlfriends.


Good, it's important to stay healthy, most particularly during this pandemic. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


----------



## treek13

lion504 said:


> Fake News: Trump asked Dr. Birx about injecting disinfectants into #coronavirus patients.



No, it’s completely true, you can watch the video


----------



## Poppy

treek13 said:


> No, it’s completely true, you can watch the video


He's incredible.
Three days ago during a briefing he suggested using light, and disinfectants, internally. He thought it was a great idea, and wanted his doctors to check into it.
Two days ago he backed away from it saying that he was being sarcastic, and then yesterday, he was defending his original outlandish comments.


----------



## bykfixer

Again, context is a beautiful thing. 
If you saw the actual press conference then you can understand what was taking place. The president posed a hypothetical. Nothing more, nothing less. If you did not see the _entire _conversation that began with a fellow explaining what happens when sunlight hits the virus…… he was posing a hypothetical additional procedure to a procedure called "pathogen inactivation".
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sterilizing-blood/
A hemopheliac childhood friend of mine lost his life to AIDS after receiving a tainted blood transfusion. Roger was as good as they come and nearly bled to death from simple cuts or internally from bruises. He was in a car wreck and needed blood. Unforunately some of what saved his life is what killed him a few years later. Pathogen inactivation helps halt that sort of thing. 

I saw the entire conversation unfold and was actually surprised the yellow journalism did not pick up on something else he said before the hypothetical posed to Dr Byrx. She got a look on her face like. "let's talk about it later, the political hacks in the room probably think you want folks to drink Lysol now". I suppose saying he wants folks to be injected with Lysol was just easier to turn into a negative spin. I do recall telling Mrs Fixer "boy the press is going to freak out about that" 

Dr Byrx and Dr Fauchi are HIV experts and were big time involved in the treatment of HIV so it is no longer an automatic death sentence. The lab that has been rumored to be the source of the novel corona is an HIV exploration lab among other things like many throughout the world. There are still labs on planet earth trying to stamp out HIV, Ebola, and other super bugs. Dr Byrx understood what the president was getting at. The US and other countries have done a ton to try and stamp out HIV and other bad stuff across the world. 

How about this? It was the Bill Gates anti malaria group who first proposed the idea of hydroxychloroquine as a possible treatment to covid-19, not Donald Trump. Bill Gates walks on water to many people, and he has done a lot to halt the spread of malaria. So if everybody knew it was actually the Bill Gates foundation folks in lab coats touting it, perhaps many who are dead set against the idea might say "hmm, why not try It"? It was actually being tried in Brazil and was said to be 100% effective according to the Brazillian president back in March. Later after Trump touted it Twitter, Facebook and others deleted the man's boasts calling it fake news. In the mean time trials in other places were showing it worked in labs so they started trying it on people. Some it worked for. Others it did not. 
Remember, context. At that point models were still showing 1-2million deaths in America. Also remember, before they knew it was a bad idea, the greatest scientific minds promoted leeches for curing sick people.


----------



## treek13

bykfixer said:


> Again, context is a beautiful thing.


Yes, context matters. He floated a dangerous, irresponsible, incredibly stupid hypothetical at an official briefing on the novel Coronavirus & he’s the President.

It’s not the time or place to be spitballing ideas.


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## StarHalo

- There is indeed such a thing as UV light therapy for the blood; it was experimented with sporadically as a form of "alternative medicine" in the 1950's, where it was touted as a way to increase vitality, no actual effects were ever noted or tests conducted, it was just administered by fringe practitioners who had the means to rig a blood transfusion device with a UV light. Few "energy healing" services offer it today due to the cost and complexity versus other therapies like cupping and crystals. 

- There was not such a thing as UV light lung disinfecting until immediately after the president's press conference, when a Chinese manufacturer under investigation for faulty COVID-19 tests immediately announced the introduction of a UV intubation device, for which they provided an illustration-and-features sheet and nothing more. Their stock price shot up immediately, the spec sheet spread like wildfire amongst fringe political groups, and there have been no updates since.

- The senior professional medical team assembled to inform the president would not have brought up alternative healing techniques or overseas black market rumors, rather they would have explained the methods in which the virus can be killed in situ externally, such as sunlight or disinfectant on a flat surface. That the president would sequentially extrapolate these concepts for medicinal use would logically follow, more so than the president being more well-versed in mid-century homeopathic healing than his advisors.


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## PhotonWrangler

The reason that shortwave UVC is germicidal is because it disintegrates cell membranes. It doesn't discriminate between good cells and bad cells; it can kill anything that it irradiates. This is why any UVC treatment that might be considered for inside the body is a very bad thing. It will indiscriminately kill everything in it's path, including lung tissue.

UVC is an awesome tool when used under strictly controlled conditions. However it is not a universal lightsaber for everything.


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## lion504

2019 - Abstract titled “Internally Applied Ultraviolet Light as a Novel Approach for Effective and Safe Anti-Microbial Treatment” published by UEG

20 April - Cedars-Sinai-Developed ‘Healight' Medical Device Platform Technology Being Studied as a Potential First-in-Class COVID-19 Treatment

24 April - POTUS press conference, and comments taken out of context.

Healight uses UVA, and it's a real thing, and it existed prior to 24 April. See for yourself since YouTube and others want to censor what you can look at. 

Efficacy unknown.


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## StarHalo

lion504 said:


> Healight uses UVA



The aforementioned "Chinese manufacturer under investigation for faulty COVID-19 tests" is the company pushing Healight, that's the device spec sheet they published. 

Any modern medical professional you ask about using UV light in the blood or internally will first refer you to the fact that UV causes cancer even when applied externally, then second refer you to the alternative healing practitioners who have been unable to show that it does anything even anecdotally beneficial.

If the president is unsure what he said, who he said it to, what he meant, if it was serious or not, that's probably not a good argument to try to reinforce.


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## PhotonWrangler

Thank you Lion. Yes this study appears to mention UVA (longwave black light) as an anti*microbial* treatment. There is a company in the US that has been marketing longwave UV as an external antimicrobial agent for some, but not all, bacteria. I didn't see anything in there about anti*viral* efficacy though.

On a related note, here's what happened when a contractor mistakenly installed UVC germicidal lamps in a public venue because someone thought it looked cool...


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Again, context is a beautiful thing.
> If you saw the actual press conference then you can understand what was taking place. The president posed a hypothetical. Nothing more, nothing less. If you did not see the _entire _conversation that began with a fellow explaining what happens when sunlight hits the virus…… he was posing a hypothetical additional procedure to a procedure called "pathogen inactivation".
> <SNIP>


Yes context.
I did see that actual press conference, and he sounded like a fool, and when he looked at Dr Birx for confirmation that it is a good idea, she appeared to be very uncomfortable with the suggestion. Once he perceived that she was not going to give him the answer he was looking for, he told her, that maybe it is a good idea to look into. 

I'll repeat myself, at a later briefing he said that he was being sarcastic. 
No he wasn't!
And later he changed his position again to defending his original statement. 

There are times that he is indefensible.

Many of his supporters have stated in the past that his twitter account should be taken away.
Some are now saying that he should stay out of the briefings, except for cursory appearances, and allow his medical experts take center stage.

It's hard to disagree.


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## lion504

Antimicrobial = antiviral (like antiflashlight = antiSurefire).

A microbe is just a micro-organism (incl both microscopic and ultramicroscopic).

Viruses are the smallest of all the microbes... 

Also, UVA is the safest of the three types. Still harmful to body, but so is chemotherapy. Again, I'm not making any claim about efficacy of Healight (yet). Just confirming its a real product and was known to scientific community prior to the briefing.


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## bykfixer

So let's just say for example, my very outspoken, shoot from the hip governor posed a hypothetical that perhaps spraying lysol in the air and walking into the woft might cure the common cold, but then says "I'm no doctor but what if"………should I suppose at that point he was suggesting I snort Lysol? 

C'mon people.……is anybody with a half a grain of sense going to shoot up Lysol now? 
What if Obama had said that? Half the press would be saying "oh what a genious he is". The other half "Obama wants people to drink Lysol with their frozen pizza."

Ok, for an even more ridiculous scenario, let's say the president is told by an expert that there are less wrecks on roads in Japan than the US and the president says "I wonder if it has anything do do with driving on the left side of the yellow line, perhaps we should study that"……is he in fact saying everybody should start driving on the wrong side of the road? 

Lighten up.


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## PhotonWrangler

It would be ok if he was exploring the idea privately with his staff. It's not ok to present it at a press briefing.


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> So let's just say for example, my very outspoken, shoot from the hip governor posed a hypothetical that perhaps spraying lysol in the air and walking into the woft might cure the common cold, but then says "I'm no doctor but what if"………should I suppose at that point he was suggesting I snort Lysol?
> 
> C'mon people.……is anybody with a half a grain of sense going to shoot up Lysol now?
> What if Obama had said that? Half the press would be saying "oh what a genious he is". The other half "Obama wants people to drink Lysol with their frozen pizza."
> 
> Ok, for an even more ridiculous scenario, let's say the president is told by an expert that there are less wrecks on roads in Japan than the US and the president says "I wonder if it has anything do do with driving on the left side of the yellow line, perhaps we should study that"……is he in fact saying everybody should start driving on the wrong side of the road?
> 
> Lighten up.


By proposing the absurd, you prove my point... there are times that he is indefensible.

IMO there are times that he should just keep his mouth shut.


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## RedLED

Anyone getting the days mixed up? It's Sunday already, again.


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## Poppy

RedLED said:


> Anyone getting the days mixed up? It's Sunday already, again.


LOL... yeah looking at the paper on the wall calendar doesn't help, I have to look at my phone or the date on my computer.

I've been out of work for six weeks, so the upcoming weather report is more important than the day of the week. 

Isn't there a smiley for crazy?


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## bykfixer

Everybody here who has never had their alligator mouth over ride their canary brain raise your hand…………




No one? 

Here's what the man said……


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## lion504

The smart play with coronavirus (and other hard problems) is to consider lots of ways to win to minimize your chance of losing, especially since experts are often wrong. Don't rule out an idea because it clashes with your preferences.


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> Everybody here who has never had their alligator mouth over ride their canary brain raise your hand…………
> 
> 
> <snip>


So he has an alligator mouth and a canary brain?

That's not much of a defense. 
:nana:

Please don't get upset with me. There are times that he is indefensible. There's nothing wrong with being a supporter, but there are times that supporters just have to lick their wounds, and move on.


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## Poppy

RedLED said:


> Anyone getting the days mixed up? It's Sunday already, again.


What? Today's Sunday?

We just ordered "Take out Tuesday" from the local Italian Restaurant.

Ham and cheese Calzone for me


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## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Anyone getting the days mixed up? It's Sunday already, again.



Fate has a sense of humor; the wife sent me to get InNOut last night, so there I was, waiting in line..


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## LeanBurn

For work, the last 2 months my life has been the same as it has been for years, but busier. I work in the humanitarian department for my church and we have been busy donating masks and food steady. I am thankful to be working but am starting to burn out a bit with every day but Sunday being the same.

My family has had their life turned upside down like everyone else so that's where it's interesting...my life same, theirs is messed up. 

I don't shop much so the restricted shopping aspect doesn't affect me much.

My hat goes off to those in the front lines in health care, unappreciated but those in leadership for the most part. I have my own thoughts on this planned-demic but that's another topic.


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## bykfixer

Poppy said:


> So he has an alligator mouth and a canary brain?
> 
> That's not much of a defense.
> :nana:
> 
> Please don't get upset with me. There are times that he is indefensible. There's nothing wrong with being a supporter, but there are times that supporters just have to lick their wounds, and move on.



As I said "he who has not raise your hand"
I did not notice you raising yours……

We have all said goofy stuff from time time time. Yet how many have a media that tries their best to do everything they can to take you down day after day? As I said in a previous post I knew when he said it he was going to pay a heavy price. But lick _my _wounds? I wasn't wounded.


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## LGT

RedLED said:


> Anyone getting the days mixed up? It's Sunday already, again.


Not really, still fortunately working normal hours so it’s easy to keep track of the day. However, to me, the Monthly increments are flying by. It’s already May next weekend. The last three months have been a blur.


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## RedLED

StarHalo said:


> Fate has a sense of humor; the wife sent me to get InNOut last night, so there I was, waiting in line..


Dude, is there an In N Out that does not have a line? Or, do you not like waiting in lines?


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## StarHalo

RedLED said:


> Dude, is there an In N Out that does not have a line? Or, do you not like waiting in lines?



I can patiently wait in some line, but half an hour for a cheeseburger?


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## StarHalo

The Rolling Stones address Coronavirus in their new single:


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## Poppy

bykfixer said:


> As I said "he who has not raise your hand"
> I did not notice you raising yours……



:Chuckle: I don't consider myself as having a canary brain, so the question/comment doesn't apply.
However the question as raised did remind me of 
John 8:7 Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Clever. How does one respond to that?



> We have all said goofy stuff from time time time. Yet how many have a media that tries their best to do everything they can to take you down day after day? As I said in a previous post I knew when he said it he was going to pay a heavy price. But lick _my _wounds? I wasn't wounded.


Absolutely! I do sometimes have a problem with engaging my mouth before my brain. Sometimes I can't take it back, sometimes trying to, just makes it worse. I can at times apologize. 

Once upon a time, back when the dinosaurs still roamed the Earth, I was in a College Assembly being addressed by the College President during a weekly address. I was an upper class-man, and he made a ludicrous statement that I just couldn't let pass. I didn't want the underclass men think that was true. I raised my hand to point out his error. When he called on me, I stammered (it dawned on me, that I was about to correct the President in front of the entire student body). I had already started my sentence, and mid sentence, I couldn't think of a graceful way out. It went something like this: "You said, well, I think you said, well, I thought you said, what I think you meant to say..." He cut me off, and made fun of me. In front of the entire school. 

I learned: Say what you mean, and mean what you say, or say nothing at all.

____________________________________________________________

While in College, each of us had to give a 5 minute speech on some health issue.
The doctor explained that we only had so many classes left, and therefore a limited amount of time for each of us (100) to give a speech.
We really need to get started, is anyone prepared?

I looked around, and figured, what the heck! I raised my hand. 
Some of my brother students gave me a critical review.
The doctor gave me an "A" and said I was the "Best extemporaneous speaker she ever met"
LOL... I had to look that up. 

I've lectured to colleagues, and given presentations, I've testified in court, and before State Assembly Committee meetings. The most dangerous people I have ever given interviews, or comments to, are the Media. They'll take your words out of context, and twist them, such that regardless of what you actually said, they will make it sound like you said, whatever they want for their report.

You have to be very careful, and precise when speaking to the media. IMO you need to word your statements so that they are perfectly clear and can not be twisted. Now... I have had little personal experience with the media. Nothing compared to a man who has been in the public eye for as long as I can remember. Because of the above, I listen to news reports with a jaundiced eye, but when I SEE the briefing LIVE I am stunned by the idiocy of feeding the media with such lunacy.


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## Chauncey Gardiner

The more you talk, the more people are inclined to hear things you didn't say.


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## Johnnyh

I’ll admit the guy needs to filter. Especially when he knows he’s facing a hostile press that will never stop trying to discredit him. But I fail to see how this became “The President of The United States suggests ingesting disinfectant.” Incredible. But again, he should have seen it coming. 

By the way, Happy 50th Birthday Melania. Wow...


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## Cree XHP 70 LED

I think Trump was only stating what Biden would have said if he was up there. I thought I heard him look over and whisper, "isn't that what Biden said?"


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## Empath

The thread and topic are valuable, but unmanageable. Rather than attempt to moderate a 1800 plus post thread, let's restart with something more easily monitored. A second thread is being started. Let's not fill it with political opinion.


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