# A reminder to never lend out lights...



## AnAppleSnail (Mar 12, 2008)

Got Lumens? said:


> Ya LoJac for your light, an awsome concept. Probably possible modifying one of those USB programmable lights I actually suggested a dongle in another thread, light will only operate within 6 feet of , LOL.
> GL


No, more to say "Well, here we are in the atrium. It's rumored that the original owner of this house saw his wife fall to her death right... here." and click their lights off.


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## enomosiki (Feb 29, 2012)

I have no idea why I did it, but I sure as hell regret doing it.

Yesterday, a co-worker lost his keys. No one had any idea where, but the keys that he lost consisted not only of the key for the building, but included his house and car keys, as well. This is a regular occurence, but it was the first time where he really, really, really lost them.

Anyway, he tried to find them using incandescent Garrity 2D that we have lying around. Obviously, it wasn't helping much to illuminate every nooks and crannies. After a while, he turned to me and asked me if I could borrow one of my lights.

*Me: "No."
*
He's the clumsy type where everything that he holds on ends up either breaking apart or becoming lost.

*Co-worker: "Why?"
*
Over the years, I have given him at least four flashlights as gifts, but he has lost *EVERY*. *SINGLE*. *ONE OF THEM*. Two IlluminaTi CA1, iTP EOS A3 and TerraLUX LightStar 100. He has lost every single one of them within two weeks of having given to him. Of course, I pointed this out to him.

*Me: "What happened to the four different lights that I gave you?"
*
And, obviously, he side-stepped the issue.

*Co-worker: "C'mon, are you REALLY not going to lend me your light?"
**Me: "Uh, yeah."

*He then tries to get another co-worker to borrow my light _FOR_ him.
*
Co-worker: "What if <name> borrowed your light?"
Me: "Nope."
Co-worker: "But, why?"
Me: "Because you are not <name>?"*

After a brief argument, I ended up handing my fully blinged-out Quark "X" Tactical with Fenix diffuser, turbo tailcap and AA body because I didn't want the charade to continue, considering how I was extremely busy with my work and he was becoming annoying not only from the argument, but the fact that he was getting in the way of my work.

After I handed it to him;

*Me: "I would appreciate it if you can refrain from losing my $80 flashlight."
*
He nods, and ends up _DROPPING _the light to the ground.

*Me: "AND I WOULD REALLY APPRECIATE IT IF YOU CAN REFRAIN FROM BREAKING IT, AS WELL!"

*After he was done fruitlessly searching for his keys, he returned my light... Except that I didn't see the diffuser still attached to it.

*Me: "Uh, where's the thing that goes in the front?"
*
He fishes for it in his pocket and digs it out. I take it without much thought and tried to fit it to the head of the light, at which point I immediately noticed something was wrong. I take a look at it and, sure enough, the diffuser is broken.

*Me: "Great. Thanks. You broke my light, you ******* idiot."
Co-worker: "Really?"
*(_I show him the broken diffuser._)
*Me: "YES."

*That's it. He now KNOWS that I am never lending him anything in my possession. But the damage has been done.

To be honest, I'm not really angry about the diffuser being broke. It's pretty cheap. What I am angry about is that I was a complete fool to lend out my light to a complete moron without any sort of accountability.

If there was anything positive to all of this, it was something that another one of my co-workers said when I used my TN11 when she was searching for the keys using another 2D Garrity. As she was searching under some cabinets with that dim light, I lent her a hand and shined my TN11 down there.

*Co-worker: "WOAH!!"
Me: "Too bright?"
Co-worker: "It was, like, daylight, all of a sudden!"
Me: "Well, sorry about that."
Co-worker: "Oh, no, I just got shocked a little. I thought it was the flashlight that I was holding, and was, like, 'what HAPPENED to this flashlight?'"*


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## cummins4x4 (Feb 29, 2012)

Thats exactly why I have 4 UF lights kicking around, they are exactly the same and can be replaced easily for $25 plus a 18650, also a UF. Nobody but nobody borrows my good lights.


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## Lodogg2221 (Feb 29, 2012)

I never loan anything anymore, because every time I do, it comes back worse than when it left. 
If ever I feel the need, Ill help someone by using my own stuff, but never will I let someone borrow something again. 
It never turns out good.

Truthfully, you should have already known what was going to happen. If he couldnt keep 4 of them, why in the world would you trust him a 5th time? 

Say no, go back to work. End of it, and you have all the pieces in the same condition they were in before the conversation! 


Sorry, I just have zero tolerance for people with no respect for others property....


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## Average Joe (Feb 29, 2012)

Ha! That's why I keep 2 flashlights at work. The loaner is a cheapo "something-FIRE" that has a dodgy clicky but works nonetheless.
Lend my good stuff out? No way...


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## Mag-man (Feb 29, 2012)

+1 to this whole convo. Sorry about your diffuser though.


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## BaldGuy45 (Feb 29, 2012)

Should have stuck to your guns. No means NO. And why would you let him have it with the diffuser in place? Didnt you think that would be the first thing he tried to rip off of it? Thats why I carry a $2 keychain light attatched to my keys. Its the only "loaner" I have.


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## shelm (Feb 29, 2012)

entertaining story (and sorry for the regret). regretting is worse than paying for the plastic. (a McDonalds hamburger or fastfood is more expensive than the diffuser and we buy hamburgers all the time!)

which diffuser was it? this one:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?322177-Custom-Quark-AAX

good idea not to lend out our good lights but only spare ones. XXXFire, rayovac indestructible, ..
i like your contributions to cpf. always worth the reading.


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## Samy (Feb 29, 2012)

Next time tell him to give you $80 first as a fully refundable loaners fee first. And tell him if it returns with marks or damage you will be deducting an appropriate amount... If he gives you the light back in one piece there's no problem. Otherwise he just bought himself a broken $80 light


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## brianna (Feb 29, 2012)

NO means no, and you let him intimidate you into giving him a light. You got what you deserved. From what you told us the outcome surprises you?


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## jamesmtl514 (Feb 29, 2012)

I carry beater lights most of the time. Office carry had been my EN mule, I wouldn't mind lending it out as long as I get it back. 
Only one Co-worker knows I carry a light though. 

Once I bring in something fancier I'll think twice about lending it out.

At least you have learned your (expensive) lesson.


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## PeterH (Feb 29, 2012)

Sounds like a case for dollar store flashlights. If you know what you're looking at, and get a bit lucky, some of them are decent lights. And cheap enough to loan/give to unreliable people.


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## Ginseng (Feb 29, 2012)

Beater lights, yes. Loaner? No way. Live and learn.

Wilkey


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## SuLyMaN (Feb 29, 2012)

That thread reminds me to get a turbo tailcap!!! I would not normally lend but depends on the person really. I mean you cant refuse your bro, dad or good friend....or can you? 

sent from my mob. Excuse misspelling. thanks!


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## strinq (Feb 29, 2012)

That's really strange...I mean if anyone borrowed something from me and lost/broke it they would automatically ask me how much was it and either refund me the cash or buy a new one and give it to me.
Heck, I'd do the same.
It's the 'culture' here. Isn't it just bad manners to not do anything when you lost or damaged someone else's property?


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## Richub (Feb 29, 2012)

I have a few friends and 2 coworkers I'll lend any light to in a second. They know the value, and treat the light accordingly.

Once a good friend borrowed one of my lights, and I got a call from him the next day: "Where do they sell these Fenix flashlights?" 
At first I thought he wanted to buy one for himself, but it turned out he lost my LD10 I lend him the other day. I found out later that day when he handed a brand new boxed LD10 to me: "I lost the one you lend me, so I bought a new one for you." 
No questions asked, he just bought a new light for me when he lost the original one. That's why I'll still lend him any light again if he needs it.

He actually found that LD10 a few months later in his couch. He simply told me with a grin: "I payed for a flashlight last summer, and now I finally got it." After I looked at him wondering what he was talking about he showed me that LD10. We both just laughed. 

As for the casual 'Can I borrow one of your lights?' question: I got an Olight I2 EOS I could lend them, but only after I made it clear they'll have to replace it when they lose or break it.


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## hkneoh (Mar 1, 2012)

Eerily, I had a similar experience as that described by the OP...


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## Harry999 (Mar 1, 2012)

I normally have some keychain coin cell lights that I would lend. If someone really needs a light for something important they might get a Fenix E01. If it is that important I would actually offer to go help them with only me handling my better lights. Same principle as if someone needs to use one of (my UK legal) edc penknives or multi-tool. I will use it for them so they don't damage it, misuse it or cut themselves.


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## angelofwar (Mar 1, 2012)

Some people are bound for Darwin to dispose of...sigh. My EDC Surefires are pretty nigh indestructible...but as a few others have stated, my coworkers know the value, and will either get another light, or if the borrow one of my SF's, they treat it with respect. They've dropped them a few times, etc., but they're all still kickin'. Sorry to hear op.


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## kaichu dento (Mar 1, 2012)

A customer asked for a light to borrow so they could search for a glove. I asked if they had $400 in case they lost it and they laughed saying "no", since they didn't believe me. 

I handed them my Clicky already turned on and said, "Really - good luck finding the glove."

Light was back in my hands a few minutes later with a smile.


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## yifu (Mar 1, 2012)

I will never lend anyone my EDC. Why? Because a bored Z2 with a Kenji Quad costs 400 dollars, and since it's a custom, it means i can't buy another should someone lose it. I do sometimes carry a backup in my bag in which case i could loan out.


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## Jroddz (Mar 1, 2012)

I would have said, "sure, give me $xxx dollars as collateral, if the light comes back with nary a scratch, you bought it."


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## JerryM (Mar 1, 2012)

I lend things to my good friends. However, in the case given by the OP I would not loan such a light after the experiences he had. 
But, when the rubber meets the road I might rather loan a cheapie like those available. On ebay for example there is a AA light that is $1.99 incl shipping. I would probably buy two or three of those and keep in my desk for loaners if really needed. 
Jerry


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## RI Chevy (Mar 1, 2012)

Unfortunately your co-worker put you in a no win situation. Definitely get a cheap loaner light to lend out to people. It is as if they expect it. Some people just never get it. They have no respect for themselves or others. Or their property. Did he buy you a new diffuser at least? If not, I would let everyone know that he broke it and did not replace it. Replacing it is just common courtesy.


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## TEEJ (Mar 1, 2012)

I don't tend to have any lights that break that easily.....but I do worry about getting things back under some circumstances. The problem stems from other people not seeing the light as valuable..its just a flashlight...why the big deal?

If I know the person well enough that I would lend them the light even if i never saw it again...fine.

If I don't know the person well enough...well, then they don't know I HAVE a light. 

Sometimes I'll just "Help them find the_________", so I am using the light.

I lost a total of one light, an HID I loaned to a coworker, and it was stolen from their truck...on an inspection job, by people who had a vested interest in interferring with the inspection. They broke his window to take it. Apparently it worked well enough to scare them that he would find MORE things wrong at their site the next day (There was a lot wrong the first and second days, and he had asked to borrow the HID for the second day due to the size of the areas involved, etc...and the HID had freeked them out on the second day)

The cameras in the parking lot there did come in handy at least....nailing the bass turds to the wall on that one.....but we never got the light back.

He offered to replace it, I told him it was ok...use the $ to get the window fixed, etc.

When my birthday came around, he got me a new HID.


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## eh4 (Mar 1, 2012)

"Avoid ****-ups.
We all know the type.
Anything that they have anything to do with,
no matter how good it sounds,
turns into a disaster.
Do not offer sympathy to the mentally ill.
Tell them firmly:
I am not paid to listen to this drivel,
you are a terminal boob." 

-William S. Burroughs "Advice to Young People" 

http://www.jjjwebdevelopment.com/306sites/burroughs/burroughs.shtml

Sorry a boob broke yer light.
​


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## [email protected] (Mar 1, 2012)

strinq said:


> That's really strange...I mean if anyone borrowed something from me and lost/broke it they would automatically ask me how much was it and either refund me the cash or buy a new one and give it to me.
> Heck, I'd do the same.
> It's the 'culture' here. Isn't it just bad manners to not do anything when you lost or damaged someone else's property?



That's the way I've been brought up. I just have a tough time understanding anything less although I know (first hand) otherwise. I lent out a locknut socket for Spicer differentials, once. The third guy that got it had the decency to try and clean up where the other two "mechanics" chewed up the engagement lugs. The first fellow thought it was OK to lend to a second who thought it was OK to lend to a third guy. :shakehead Still looked like I lent it to a 6 year old with no clue how to use tools. Took alot of time with files to make it look like it should.

And yes, it's terribly poor manners to not take care of others gear as if it were your own. There's only a very select few that get to use my tools, about 3 or 5 is all. I've also learned how to be brutally blunt to anyone other than those few.


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## mbw_151 (Mar 2, 2012)

What better purpose for a couple of MiniMag LEDs than "loaners"? Lend a reasonable quality $20 light, keep HDS with Milky upgrades in pocket. It's a plan that works for me.


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## kaichu dento (Mar 2, 2012)

strinq said:


> That's really strange...I mean if anyone borrowed something from me and lost/broke it they would automatically ask me how much was it and either refund me the cash or buy a new one and give it to me.
> Heck, I'd do the same.
> It's the 'culture' here. Isn't it just bad manners to not do anything when you lost or damaged someone else's property?





Richub said:


> I have a few friends and 2 coworkers I'll lend any light to in a second. They know the value, and treat the light accordingly.
> 
> Once a good friend borrowed one of my lights, and I got a call from him the next day: "Where do they sell these Fenix flashlights?"
> At first I thought he wanted to buy one for himself, but it turned out he lost my LD10 I lend him the other day. I found out later that day when he handed a brand new boxed LD10 to me: "I lost the one you lend me, so I bought a new one for you."
> ...





TEEJ said:


> I don't tend to have any lights that break that easily.....but I do worry about getting things back under some circumstances. The problem stems from other people not seeing the light as valuable..its just a flashlight...why the big deal?
> 
> If I know the person well enough that I would lend them the light even if i never saw it again...fine.
> 
> ...


Just thought these three were worth reading again.

Too many people now days want to explain why they won't help others out. Rather than let the worst people determine how we should act, it's better to follow the best among us when determining how to treat others.

Love the LD10 and HID stories and that is how you find out who your actual friends are.


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## fyrstormer (Mar 2, 2012)

One of the benefits of carrying a McGizmo: you can loan it to someone without any fear of it being damaged, AND you can say "please be careful with it, it cost four hundred dollars."


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## fyrstormer (Mar 2, 2012)

Samy said:


> Next time tell him to give you $80 first as a fully refundable loaners fee first. And tell him if it returns with marks or damage you will be deducting an appropriate amount... If he gives you the light back in one piece there's no problem. Otherwise he just bought himself a broken $80 light


Taking a security deposit on loaning someone a flashlight.  Just buy one made of titanium and never worry about it again. Mac's Tri-EDC is just as affordable as a few easier-to-break aluminum lights.


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## aephilli (Mar 2, 2012)

shelm said:


> good idea not to lend out our good lights but only spare ones. XXXFire, rayovac indestructible, ..
> i like your contributions to cpf. always worth the reading.



Now I KNOW I need to stay in the "budget" forum, 2xAA Indestructable IS my "good" light.:huh:


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## fyrstormer (Mar 2, 2012)

Harry999 said:


> I normally have some keychain coin cell lights that I would lend. If someone really needs a light for something important they might get a Fenix E01. If it is that important I would actually offer to go help them with only me handling my better lights. Same principle as if someone needs to use one of (my UK legal) edc penknives or multi-tool. I will use it for them so they don't damage it, misuse it or cut themselves.


If someone cuts themselves using your pen knife improperly, they got what they had coming to them. Not seeing the problem with that scenario.


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## Harry999 (Mar 2, 2012)

fyrstormer,

I agree with you, sir! However, remember I am in the UK where there is enough fear of weapons. I am surprised people aren't legally banned from using knives and forks and forced to use sporks - plastic ones at that. 


Even a simple tool such as say a Swiss Army Knife Solo Alox Pioneer 1 which is a non locking 2.5" bladed slip joint can frighten some people over here. If they cut themselves it would not be long before they would be moaning about it and I would have the reputation of someone who carries a weapon. Seems silly but those are the facts of it. I work in an office environment so it would not do my career progression any good to be considered a weapon carrying nut! :shakehead

Edit: Actually I just realised people probably consider me to be a flashlight carrying nut. Not sure how good that is for the career...


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## fyrstormer (Mar 2, 2012)

Is the UK really that obsessed with the possible criminal uses of everyday objects? Better not tell them what can be done with a cricket bat if they're worried about Swiss Army knives.


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## NeonLights (Mar 2, 2012)

I enjoy helping people, whether that means giving away tools (IE knives, flashlights, multitools) or lending them to someone in need. I have friends and acquaintances who aren't the most responsible people in the world, but I still lend tools to them, but typically not the more expensive stuff. I don't buy cheaply built lights that are easily broken except for inexpensive beater lights/knives, so I'm not worried so much about my flashlights getting broken.


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## Siliconti (Mar 2, 2012)

I agree that the OP was put up against a wall - what are you going to do when this guy is bad-mouthing you over a flashlight - keeping in mind the average person thinks a flashlight is $5 at WalMart? They are like "what is the issue?", when the OP is thinking "hey, this is an expensive, beloved flashlight". 

I only told one person how much my M6 costs, and they still do not believe me to this day - the average person can not wrap their brains around it.


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## mauiblue (Mar 3, 2012)

I work at a warehouse at night that doesn't have anything power/lights as it is being renovated. A couple times people that came to the site at night to look for something they forgot in the day. They would ask "Could I borrow your light?" Fortunately, I had my 2 cell Maglite with me. I would never lend my Surefire under any circumstances. I now use a Nitecore Tiny Monster as my primary light and as backup a Thrunite TN11. None will leave my possession still and I have a freebie coin battery key chain light from Lighthound I can lend anytime . 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## Chrontius (Mar 3, 2012)

My dad once gave me a knife, and I only loaned it to someone at work once, with disclaimers and strongly worded warnings. I caught them using it as a screwdriver not ten seconds later. It was particularly egregious because I was also carrying a screwdriver at the time, and the edge is still not back where it was before that, even though I had it sharpened by Randall Knives.


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## cummins4x4 (Mar 3, 2012)

My theory, want to borrow a power tool, not likely, a knife, give them a box cutter, a firearm, not a chance in hell, a flashlight, sure, here is one of my loaners.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2012)

kaichu dento said:


> Too many people now days want to explain why they won't help others out. Rather than let the worst people determine how we should act, it's better to follow the best among us when determining how to treat others.



I actually enjoy helping others solve their problems, you can help folks without lending out gear very often. Check back in after you've had some tools damaged 3 or 4 times, or lost and tell a story. If you still have the same point of view, hair on ya cause yer doing well and are a credit to man. :thumbsup:

When you have to work as hard to help people that will not help themselves function in life as the OP did, there comes a point where they need to know that they are now on their own. Hats off to him for his incredible patientence.


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## Richub (Mar 3, 2012)

Chrontius said:


> My dad once gave me a knife, and I only loaned it to someone at work once, with disclaimers and strongly worded warnings. I caught them using it as a screwdriver not ten seconds later. It was particularly egregious because I was also carrying a screwdriver at the time, and the edge is still not back where it was before that, even though I had it sharpened by Randall Knives.


That's just so ridiculous, OMG. 
I think I might have tried to use his head as a screwdriver if this had happened to me...



[email protected] said:


> I actually enjoy helping others solve their problems, you can help folks without lending out gear very often. *Check back in after you've had some tools damaged 3 or 4 times, or lost and tell a story.* If you still have the same point of view, hair on ya cause yer doing well and are a credit to man.
> 
> When you have to work as hard to help people that will not help themselves function in life as the OP did, there comes a point where they need to know that they are now on their own. Hats off to him for his incredible patientence.


The first quote tells the story nicely about how some people treat tools or things they didn't pay for themselves.

It's not a question of not wanting to help people, but the fear of them damaging good gear that will keep people from handing out tools to others.

I always offer to help them myself instead of loaning tools to them, most of them 'get the message' and let me fix it.


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## Harry999 (Mar 3, 2012)

Richub said:


> I always offer to help them myself instead of loaning tools to them, most of them 'get the message' and let me fix it.



+1 when it comes to your quality tools. I still keep loaner items on hand though because there are times when you are busy and can't help them yourself. I think the OP was in this situation.


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## T45 (Mar 4, 2012)

Chrontius said:


> My dad once gave me a knife, and I only loaned it to someone at work once, with disclaimers and strongly worded warnings. I caught them using it as a screwdriver not ten seconds later. It was particularly egregious because I was also carrying a screwdriver at the time, and the edge is still not back where it was before that, even though I had it sharpened by Randall Knives.



I worked at sears as a warehouse worker for a number of years in my younger days, and one day while moving freight inside, a coworker asked to borrow my knife, then PROMPTLY tried to pry through some metal banding on a wooden crate with it. Tin snips were lying not more than 10 feet away. It took some work getting that edge back. The problem with lending others tools is you have no idea how they will attempt use them, and flash lights and knives are often put to use as pry bars. 

If people had replaced the tools/flashlights or anything else they lost or damaged over the years, I would be one happy man. All too often, all I get is "What?!?!? it cost how much?? Are you kidding me??" and that's it. Of course, that gets them put on the "dumb a** I don't loan ANYTHING to again" list. 

and where do people get the idea it is OK to loan someone's tools to someone else?!?!? and par for the course, I have to go track that item down. 

Cheapo lights I will loan, tools however require questions about work, where, when, what type, and NO, you damn well better not loan them to someone else.


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## Lit Up (Mar 5, 2012)

I always love when certain people ask me to borrow one and I have to reply with, "Ummm, don't you work in maintenance??" It's like hello, tool of the trade go freaking buy one! Sheesh!


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## hank (Mar 5, 2012)

I ask people 'do you know how to break it'?
And they go WTF?
And I quote from the Whole Earth Catalog a line by J. Baldwin:
"You don't know how to use a tool until you know six ways to break it."


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## kaichu dento (Mar 5, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I actually enjoy helping others solve their problems, you can help folks without lending out gear very often. Check back in after you've had some tools damaged 3 or 4 times, or lost and tell a story. If you still have the same point of view, hair on ya cause yer doing well and are a credit to man. :thumbsup:


I like to help others too, but instead of assuming that life needs to be fair to me in order for me to offer that help, I just try to make myself useful during my time on earth as best I can.

Lost a IFE-1 (?) last year after loaning it out, then after letting a friend carry my Calipsoii loaded A2 and hCRI modded V10R Ti for a couple weeks, he's lost the A2. Since he's one of the people that helps make life bearable here at work and he's got his future on track with the girl of his dreams, I'm not going to impede by worrying too much about holding him accountable. 

I'm going to continue to try and help others in whatever way I can, and sometimes that requires carrying them on your back. Still, the path I choose for myself is my own choice and I don't really expect others to understand or necessarily follow suit, but there are others out there who feel the same way.


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## Lit Up (Mar 5, 2012)

Kind of goes with the catch a man a fish, feed him for a day. But teach a man to fish...philosophy

I think I'll exercise that from now on in regards to lights. Instead of lending mine out, I'll instead get out my phone and open the Amazon shopping app for them, so they can acquire their own light to have from there on. :thumbsup:


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## Harry999 (Mar 5, 2012)

I am saying this in jest so don't take this seriously but I had the image of someone asking for a flashlight and I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!


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## fyrstormer (Mar 5, 2012)

Harry999 said:


> I am saying this in jest so don't take this seriously but I had the image of someone asking for a flashlight and I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!


Extra points if you're wearing a trenchcoat at the time. 

I've made this point before, but it's worth mentioning again: if you buy a steel flashlight (or titanium, if you can afford it), you won't have to worry about anyone breaking it. There's a reason why a certain percentage of flashaholics end up migrating towards the "ultra-durable custom-made" market segment, and the reason is that it's a lot more pleasant to use (and loan) tools that you don't _need_ to be careful with, even if you do _choose_ to be careful with them.


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## shelm (Mar 5, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> I've made this point before, but it's worth mentioning again: if you buy a steel flashlight (or titanium, if you can afford it), you won't have to worry about anyone breaking it.


if a light isnt protected with rubber like a rayovac indestructible, the light will break (driver board by the battery, or the glass lens) if you let it fall down 100.0000% vertically bezel down onto plane, smooth, hard surface such as marble tiles. typically Chi*a aluminum lights are rated 1.0, 1.2 or 1.5m ANSI FL-1 Standard for "drop resistance", and this is meant for ANSI testing and not for the case i just depicted (100.000000% etc.).

the rayovac (10m drop resistance ANSI FL-1) is cheap enough and indestructible BECAUSE it has plastic lens, plastic parts, glued parts and lots of rubber. i would lend out such a light anytime.

give me your steel light or your expensive titanium light and i will drop it from 2.0m (which is not high imho). i will bet that it will break (e.g. the lens) after repeated 100.0000% vertical drops :devil:


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## WebHobbit (Mar 5, 2012)

A guy I work closely with everyday I would have no issue loaning my light to because I think he will respect my stuff. It's funny because he thinks I'm kind of insane to spend $200+ on my EDC SF+Malkoff (and other mods). But he also recognizes how awesome the light they put out is so if he needs a flashlight he either gets me to spot for him or he sometimes borrows it himself. He is the exception though...most of the folks I work with ---NO.


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## Burgess (Mar 5, 2012)

No means No.


What part of " No " don't you understand ? ? ?


Fortunately --

at my advanced age (58 years old),

I no longer give a sh1t *WHAT* people think of me.



_


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## fyrstormer (Mar 5, 2012)

shelm said:


> if a light isnt protected with rubber like a rayovac indestructible, the light will break (driver board by the battery, or the glass lens) if you let it fall down 100.0000% vertically bezel down onto plane, smooth, hard surface such as marble tiles. typically Chi*a aluminum lights are rated 1.0, 1.2 or 1.5m ANSI FL-1 Standard for "drop resistance", and this is meant for ANSI testing and not for the case i just depicted (100.000000% etc.).
> 
> the rayovac (10m drop resistance ANSI FL-1) is cheap enough and indestructible BECAUSE it has plastic lens, plastic parts, glued parts and lots of rubber. i would lend out such a light anytime.
> 
> give me your steel light or your expensive titanium light and i will drop it from 2.0m (which is not high imho). i will bet that it will break (e.g. the lens) after repeated 100.0000% vertical drops :devil:


There are 360 degrees in a circle and two axes of rotation the light could be oriented in when it falls. That equals 129,600 possible orientations (using whole degrees only, not counting fractions) that the light could have upon impact. The chances of it hitting dead-on vertical are extremely slim. Also, any self-respecting flashlight has at least one O-ring sealing the lense and insulating it from the force of impact, and well-designed electronics will use separate circuit boards for the driver and the battery contact. McGizmos have dual O-rings insulating the synthetic-sapphire lense from impact, and the sapphire itself is strong enough that when I needed to remove some damaged anti-reflective coating, I scrubbed the lense with a motorized steel wire brush and it had no effect on the optical quality of the lense.

If you want to do your tests, go buy your own McGizmo and have fun. I'm not clumsy enough to drop mine often enough to damage it, but even if I did, all the parts are replaceable.


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## Got Lumens? (Mar 5, 2012)

hank said:


> I ask people 'do you know how to break it'?
> And they go WTF?
> And I quote from the Whole Earth Catalog a line by J. Baldwin:
> "You don't know how to use a tool until you know six ways to break it."


Hank, 
Classic. I love it. I think I need to borrow that phrase...



Harry999 said:


> I am saying this in jest so don't take this seriously but I had the image of someone asking for a flashlight and I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!


Harry,
That is cool, as long as that other side of the coat is not lined with fake rolexes 

I have a solution that may work . . .
Just lend them one that has only spacer cells in it . Of course feel free to lay it on thick, this a custom $400 light, don't break it, make sure I get it back in the same condition, click...click, "ahhhgw the batteries are dead, you'll have to find someone elses and borrow thiers"
GL


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## Lit Up (Mar 6, 2012)

Harry999 said:


> I am saying this in jest so don't take this seriously but I had the image of someone asking for a flashlight and I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!



LOL I just got a vision of "Lootin' Lenny" from the TV sitcom _Good Times._


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## Harry999 (Mar 6, 2012)

No I would have flashlights on one side and batteries on the other! 



Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## Gregozedobe (Mar 6, 2012)

Burgess said:


> No means No.
> 
> ........ I no longer give a sh1t *WHAT* people think of me.



I'm with Burgess - it seems nearly every time I've loaned something that I value there has ended up being a problem of one kind or another. Maybe the sort of person who isn't prepared (and therefore needs to borrow my stuff) is also the sort of person who doesn't look after other people's stuff ? These days I just give them a cheapo light that I definitely don't care about, that's much less stressful for me. 

As far as tools go, I simply don't give anyone a choice, either I'll fix it using my own tool/s, or they look elsewhere for assistance (sometimes I'll let them use something under my direct supervision). I'm doing them the favour, so it happens on my terms or not at all.


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## SHADE02 (Mar 6, 2012)

Well..... after the first drop, in my case, it could probably be something like this: "give me that sh***!!!, get lost....


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## AnAppleSnail (Mar 6, 2012)

Got Lumens? said:


> click...click, "ahhhgw the batteries are dead, you'll have to find someone elses and borrow thiers"
> GL


Lockout tailcap to the rescue!


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## JerryM (Mar 6, 2012)

After reading the comments I continue to have the attitude that friends and co-workers are more important than my tools and flashlights. If I had a friend or co-worker who did not take care of the things lent, I would loan the beater stuff. When I can buy a flashlight on ebay that is less than $2 shipped I would buy those for loaners. It would also help if I did not flash my $100 flashlight (Which I don't own). 
Jerry


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## budynabuick (Mar 7, 2012)

Harry999 said:


> I open my suit jacket and there are a number of flashlights attached with price labels. I then offer to sell them one!!!



I had too laugh at that. But this thread is about so much more than a lost flashlight. It is about the human condition as well and I am encouraged by the comments from Malaysia to the USA and points in between. +++123:thumbsup:

Keith- who realizes this forum is about much more than flashlights


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## mauiblue (Mar 8, 2012)

Burgess said:


> Fortunately --
> 
> at my advanced age (58 years old),
> 
> ...



I made it to 50 yrs old a couple months ago and realized years ago it really doesn't matter what others think. I also hate when people try to take advantage of my good nature. 



Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## JerryM (Mar 8, 2012)

I realize this is off topic, but I am 79, and I do care about others, and the "salt and light" I can shed on this world. 
A few bucks here and there are of no consequence, and if it does meet a need of someone else, then I am thankful I have the resources to do so.

Edit: As the years go by I realize how unimportant "things" are. 
Jerry


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## ico (Mar 8, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> Lockout tailcap to the rescue!



He wanted to place dummy cells inside so that the light will intentionaly not work.


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## nbp (Mar 8, 2012)

ico said:


> He wanted to place dummy cells inside so that the light will intentionaly not work.



And with a LOTC you can make the light not work without having to swap batteries. Easy peasy.


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## Gregozedobe (Mar 9, 2012)

For those wondering, LOTC = Lock Out Tail Cap


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## fyrstormer (Mar 9, 2012)

Darn. I thought it meant "Lord of the Candlepower".


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## AnAppleSnail (Mar 9, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> Darn. I thought it meant "Lord of the Candlepower".


Lord of the Clickies
Lair of the Candlea
Lights: Only Turbo Cool


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## T45 (Mar 9, 2012)

budynabuick said:


> I had too laugh at that. But this thread is about so much more than a lost flashlight. It is about the human condition as well and I am encouraged by the comments from Malaysia to the USA and points in between. +++123:thumbsup:
> 
> Keith- who realizes this forum is about much more than flashlights



+1!...this thread just gets better and better lovecpf


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## ico (Mar 10, 2012)

nbp said:


> And with a LOTC you can make the light not work without having to swap batteries. Easy peasy.



I see, I see.


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## Got Lumens? (Mar 10, 2012)

ico said:


> I see, I see.



Maybe there is a better approach . . . 

For that 'person' that needs a reminder to *never to ask* to borrow my light . . .


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## Xacto (Mar 11, 2012)

Wow, interesting thread. Seems that (other) people and the value they give to others properties are the same all over the globe.

I am glad not to have a co-worker like the one the OP described. I think I would have sent him down in the basement one day WITHOUT a flashlight in the hopes that he will stay down there.... ;-)

But that thread make me think about storing one of my old mini maglites in my desk. Better to lend one of them to anyone than to give out one of my EDC Surefires.


Cheers
Thorsten


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## Lit Up (Mar 12, 2012)

Harry999 said:


> No I would have flashlights on one side and batteries on the other!



Make sure you offer them the merchandise while imitating the voice of the merchant from the Resident Evil 4 game. 

"Straaaaanger!" lol


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## AnAppleSnail (Mar 12, 2012)

I frequently lend out lights on photography trips. The only thought I have towards lending them out is "Wouldn't it be fun to add a remote-off switch to these?"


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## Got Lumens? (Mar 12, 2012)

AnAppleSnail said:


> I frequently lend out lights on photography trips. The only thought I have towards lending them out is "Wouldn't it be fun to add a remote-off switch to these?"


Ya LoJac for your light, an awsome concept. Probably possible modifying one of those USB programmable lights I actually suggested a dongle in another thread, light will only operate within 6 feet of , LOL.
GL


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## Got Lumens? (Mar 12, 2012)

Got Lumens? said:


> Ya LoJac for your light, an awsome concept. Probably possible modifying one of those USB programmable lights I actually suggested a dongle in another thread, light will only operate within 6 feet of , LOL.
> GL


Test post for admins.


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## Kestrel (Mar 12, 2012)

strinq said:


> That's really strange...I mean if anyone borrowed something from me and lost/broke it they would automatically ask me how much was it and either refund me the cash or buy a new one and give it to me.
> Heck, I'd do the same.
> It's the 'culture' here. Isn't it just bad manners to not do anything when you lost or damaged someone else's property?



Agree with the above. I've lent out many of my high performance lights over the years, zero issues, SureFire - Malkoff - Milky, etc. (The Moddoo triples haven't been needed yet, lol). What helps out immeasurably is that I am lucky enough to be surrounded by like-minded people who understand and value high quality stuff. Furthermore, they understand 'the right tool for the job' idea. All of my friends and associates wouldn't hesitate to cover the full value of something that was in their posession without even being asked to do so.

I am privileged to be blessed with great friends. I return that privilege by helping them in any way that I am able to.


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## SmeServer (Mar 17, 2012)

So years ago when my Surefire 6p was brand new (to me) a colleague borrowed it. He was having problems filling the tank on his truck as there was some metal protective sheets in the way and whilst we chatting it suddenly went dark followed by a deep 'clunk' and him swearing.

He wondered off to get the long neck tool extraction thingy from the workshop and after getting it out I held onto it as well as the metal plates so he could carry on filling the 500 litre diesel tank.

Once done we found some suitable cleaning solutions and used that, but I didn't switch it off as I wasn't sure how watertight it was, so left it on. It soon flattened the CR123 in it and he grabbed me one from his truck, as they were used on one of the remote control panels.

It did create a nice glow in the fuel tank while it was in there   When I next saw him in the yard some months later he had had a 24v work lamp set up near the tank and some straps to hold the sheeting up so he could see what he was doing.

Torch survived, still in use today. Took ages to get that diesel smell out though


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## r-ice (Mar 17, 2012)

a friend dropped my light over the side of a boat. =[


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## fyrstormer (Mar 18, 2012)

Got Lumens? said:


> Ya LoJac for your light, an awsome concept. Probably possible modifying one of those USB programmable lights I actually suggested a dongle in another thread, light will only operate within 6 feet of , LOL.
> GL


No need for anything that complicated. Just attach an extendable dog leash to the light before you loan it to someone, and hold onto the leash reel. If they complain, suggest that they can find someone else to borrow a light from instead.


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## kaichu dento (Mar 19, 2012)

Got Lumens? said:


> I actually suggested a dongle in another thread, light will only operate within 6 feet





fyrstormer said:


> No need for anything that complicated. Just attach an extendable dog leash to the light before you loan it to someone, and hold onto the leash reel. If they complain, suggest that they can find someone else to borrow a light from instead.


I love both of them but the ball & chain works well too. LOL


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## abvidledUK (Mar 19, 2012)

Attach one of these to the torch, it'll come back


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## Got Lumens? (Mar 19, 2012)

abvidledUK said:


> Attach one of these to the torch, it'll come back


I would think that if you had one of those dogtoys attached to it, they wouldn't even ask to borrow it in the first place. You have my vote for how to deter a would be borrower from asking. A good theft deterent as well, You can pocket my light, just don't try that with it's lanyard...


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## DM51 (Mar 19, 2012)

There are key-fob size Bluetooth locator tags on the market that you can attach to bags and other items to help prevent them being moved/stolen. When the item is moved more than a set distance away from your cell-phone, an alarm sounds on the tag and the phone. It's a neat idea, worth considering for anything you value really highly...


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## Got Lumens? (Mar 19, 2012)

DM51 said:


> There are key-fob size Bluetooth locator tags on the market that you can attach to bags and other items to help prevent them being moved/stolen. When the item is moved more than a set distance away from your cell-phone, an alarm sounds on the tag and the phone. It's a neat idea, worth considering for anything you value really highly...


+1
There are some uTube videos showing these types of devices in action. 
One of my favorites is one using software that allows you to track your stolen phone from your computer. 
Now we just need tiny GPS's implanted into our lights ... and we could track them by phone/computer.


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## Phil Ament (Mar 19, 2012)

Got Lumens? said:


> Now we just need tiny GPS's implanted into our lights ... and we could track them by phone/computer.



Now that's a bright idea!


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## kaichu dento (Mar 19, 2012)

Got Lumens? said:


> +1
> There are some uTube videos showing these types of devices in action.
> One of my favorites is one using software that allows you to track your stolen phone from your computer.
> Now we just need tiny GPS's implanted into our lights ... and we could track them by phone/computer.


I'd love to have had them in my lost Draco and Clicky!


Phil Ament said:


> Now that's a bright idea!


................


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## brianna (Mar 19, 2012)

mauiblue said:


> I made it to 50 yrs old a couple months ago and realized years ago it really doesn't matter what others think. I also hate when people try to take advantage of my good nature.



Words of wisdom I live by now. Only wish I learned this when I was 12yrs old.


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## RGB_LED (Mar 26, 2012)

Reading some of these stories makes be cringe and also serves as a reminder for me to not loan out my lights. The last time I did that was 7 years ago and I haven't done it since: I brought an HDS U60 with me while camping with friends, one my friends noticed the multi-levels and asked if he could see the light, I gave it to him, he then stood up, walked into the woods as he was "answering the call of nature":toilet:... He did his business, walked back to the camp site, then placed my light onto a picnic bench that he was walking by. 

I watched as he did this and as he walked right by me without saying a single word or even giving me back my light. I was astounded. Needless to say, I picked up my light, went to the river to rinse it off :eeew: and ... decided then and there that I would never, ever again loan out any of my lights to anyone. Unfortunately, out of necessity, sometimes you need to ensure someone else in your group has some light so I have an older light - I don't mind losing - that I bring with me as a loaner.


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## Illum (Mar 26, 2012)

Let someone borrow your gun and you'll wind up getting shot in the back. For me though, loaning out my L4 to a classmate only resulted in him constantly shining it in my face... I now use a Fenix P1 w/ SSC CRI in public, if it gets lost, oh well... but in the mean time it can't be used to blind anyone


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## eh4 (Mar 26, 2012)

Well I just got my H51Fc returned to me after lending it out for 2 months+, came back in perfect condition with all of the Eneloops in their little battery holder. Makes a difference who you lend to, my friend would have returned it any time I asked for it back and would have promptly replaced it had it been damaged.
Nice to have the little sucker back though.


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## kaichu dento (Mar 27, 2012)

eh4 said:


> Well I just got my H51Fc returned to me after lending it out for 2 months+, came back in perfect condition with all of the Eneloops in their little battery holder. Makes a difference who you lend to, my friend would have returned it any time I asked for it back and would have promptly replaced it had it been damaged.
> Nice to have the little sucker back though.


The best lesson to learn from this thread is not as the title suggests, never trusting anyone, but learning how to choose who to trust and how better to pick friends!


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## Burgess (Mar 27, 2012)

It's really kinda' funny . . . .


The only person I would lend my light to, would be a fellow Flashaholic.


-- however --


a Flashaholic would probably Never Need to borrow my flashlight.



_


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## RGB_LED (Mar 27, 2012)

Burgess said:


> It's really kinda' funny . . . .
> The only person I would lend my light to, would be a fellow Flashaholic.
> -- however --
> a Flashaholic would probably Never Need to borrow my flashlight.
> ...


Sadly, not always the case. I had one former, fellow Flashoholic who asked to borrow my SF 6P w/ M60 light to check out. Never again will I loan out lights even to a Flashoholic.



Illum said:


> Let someone borrow your gun and you'll wind up getting shot in the back. For me though, loaning out my L4 to a classmate only resulted in him constantly shining it in my face...


That's the one thing that I don't understand about people and lights... I had this happen a few times and I even remember letting the aforementioned flashoholic check out my SF and the first thing he did was shine the light in my face. :scowl: I always turn the light away whenever I hand over a light for someone to use briefly or I hand it over bezel down, then tell them how to turn it on. To me, it's like a gun, you never point it at someone's face! It boggles my mind what people do...


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## bstrickler (Mar 27, 2012)

Illum said:


> Let someone borrow your gun and you'll wind up getting shot in the back. For me though, loaning out my L4 to a classmate only resulted in him constantly shining it in my face



Luckily for me, but badly for my friend, he ends up putting on sunglasses now, any time I get a new light. Then he proceeds to shine it into his own eyes, even after I shine it at the ground.

He better not be stupid enough to do that with my 656 hotwire, otherwise he's going to melt his face off, lol.


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## r-ice (Mar 27, 2012)

Got Lumens? said:


> +1
> There are some uTube videos showing these types of devices in action.
> One of my favorites is one using software that allows you to track your stolen phone from your computer.
> Now we just need tiny GPS's implanted into our lights ... and we could track them by phone/computer.



Lol doesn't help when it is at the bottom of the lake.


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## Got Lumens? (Mar 27, 2012)

r-ice said:


> Lol doesn't help when it is at the bottom of the lake.


Then we just need GPs that work's underwater


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