# *new* Fenix E20 (2014 edition)



## kj2 (Jul 14, 2014)

Fenix released a new version of their E20.

·Uses Cree XP-E2 LED with a lifespan of 50,000 hours
·Uses two AA (Ni-MH, Alkaline) batteries*
·160mm (Length) x 26mm (Diameter)
·94-gram weight (excluding batteries)*
·Digitally regulated output - maintains constant brightness
·Reverse polarity protection, to protect from improper battery installation
·Tactical tail switch with momentary-on function
·Made of durable aircraft-grade aluminum
·Premium Type III hard-anodized anti-abrasive finish
·Toughened ultra-clear glass lens with anti-reflective coating


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## kj2 (Jul 14, 2014)




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## horizonearth (Jul 14, 2014)

now this looks interesting. surely beats out the mini-mags!

I would actually like to get one of these. I have a couple SureFire 2x18650's that claim the neighborhood of 1600 lumens. I was drawn to the biggest and brightest, but my budget said SureFire.

In any case, thank you for this post and I just may have to get one of these!

Mike


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## Infinite Zero (Jul 14, 2014)

This could be interesting...


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## kj75 (Jul 14, 2014)

Interesting concept...easy to handle with gloves
Price €39,90


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## markr6 (Jul 14, 2014)

Very interesting idea!!

But I think they basically admitted 80% of their other models are a PITA with *"tired of the hard to find side switch?"*


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## Ishango (Jul 14, 2014)

markr6 said:


> Very interesting idea!!
> 
> But I think they basically admitted 80% of their other models are a PITA with *"tired of the hard to find side switch?"*


Might be one reason for the design of the LD09.

I like this one. The original E20 is my first LED flashlight and so I might try this one yet.


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## TMedina (Jul 14, 2014)

Nope, not gonna do it.

All I keep seeing is every horror movie ever where the next victim is running, screaming frantically for help and the flashlight flickers, then dies. Who knew it was from motion activation?  Seriously though, trying to muddle through shake activation when you're tired, cold, or scared is not going to be the most practical interface possible.

And the mode spacing is crap (admittedly, in my opinion) - unless you're planning on using this exclusively as an outdoor light where you might want higher outputs for trail-finding. Otherwise, you go from a 10 lumen low, 80 hour runtime to 125 lumens, 2 hour runtime. And then 250 lumens for 35 minutes. Yeesh - how about a practical, long lasting 45 lumens? The older E21 put out 30 lumens for 8 hours, if memory serves. And freaking bright lumens at that.


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## kj2 (Jul 14, 2014)

TMedina said:


> Nope, not gonna do it.
> 
> All I keep seeing is every horror movie ever where the next victim is running, screaming frantically for help and the flashlight flickers, then dies. Who knew it was from motion activation?


:laughing:


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## leon2245 (Jul 14, 2014)

> Motion control deactivation
> To prevent accidental operation, just tighten the head to disable the motion control and lock the light on the current output. Loosing the head will resume shake-to-shift brightness control of all three outputs.




Don't care for the shake feature, but this option is awesome- turn it on, shake it to desired mode, then tighten the head on that mode and you effectively have a single mode in the output you want. Unless, make sure I'm understanding, it does turn back on in & only in that selected mode with the head still tightened right (the tighten-lockout only prevents mode switching, you dont have to twist every time, just set & forget)?

Did I overlook when stepdown occurs on high?


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## powernoodle (Jul 14, 2014)

I was going to link to one of those "Shake Weight" videos on youtube, but thought better of it.


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## TMedina (Jul 14, 2014)

powernoodle said:


> I was going to link to one of those "Shake Weight" videos on youtube, but thought better of it.


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## martinaee (Jul 14, 2014)

Yeah .... I was a little put off until I saw you can lock the mode at the head. That's such an awesome idea because if I understand right it basically makes the light a single output light at whatever mode you want.

Isn't this an upgrade to the E21 though? Not really the E20. I hope they have a neutral version like they did with the E21 for a while. I actually bought the Bright Guy store demo copy of the neutral white E21 last year and used it forever lol. I gave it to my brother though so I'd love an upgraded xp-e2 neutral version with a brighter beam. The neutral E21 was a great light. Really warm beam actually---not incan warm but heading that way.

Are there even neutral tint xp-e2 circulating? I haven't seen that yet online.


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## newbie66 (Jul 15, 2014)

This looks interesting. The throw is similar to the Nitecore MT21A. Might just get it...


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## välineurheilija (Jul 15, 2014)

horizonearth said:


> now this looks interesting. surely beats out the mini-mags!
> 
> I would actually like to get one of these. I have a couple SureFire 2x18650's that claim the neighborhood of 1600 lumens. I was drawn to the biggest and brightest, but my budget said SureFire.
> 
> ...



Surely you mean some other fire than Surefire,but yeah this will surely beat out a minimag 


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## Infinite Zero (Jul 15, 2014)

So far, none of the usual suspects have a preorder for the new E20. This light must be a ways off yet.


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## kj2 (Jul 15, 2014)

Infinite Zero said:


> So far, none of the usual suspects have a preorder for the new E20. This light must be a ways off yet.



Should I feel addressed?


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## Infinite Zero (Jul 15, 2014)

kj2 said:


> Should I feel addressed?


Sorry, I didn't know you had a store.
I just meant I did a sweep of the commonly-mentioned US-based stores, and didn't find any. 

Have you heard anything about a shipping date yet?


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## kj2 (Jul 15, 2014)

Infinite Zero said:


> Sorry, I didn't know you had a store.
> I just meant I did a sweep of the commonly-mentioned US-based stores, and didn't find any.
> 
> Have you heard anything about a shipping date yet?


Don't own a store, but have pre-ordered some Fenix lights in the past 
Usually it takes around 2-3 weeks after release, to arrive at stores.


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## TweakMDS (Jul 15, 2014)

Love the idea of this new UI, but it depends on how sensitive the shaking is. If you have to lock it to a level by twisting the head tight for simple walking, aiming and pointing it around, it essentially becomes a more complex twisty light. However, I applaud Fenix for trying something new here!

What I don't like is the mode spacing... Our eyes work closer to log modes, so if 250 lumens is a high mode, 1-5 lumens low, 20-50 lumens on medium and 250 on high would be much more useful, perhaps with a 100 lumen sub-high in between, for extended runtime.
I find a 10 lumens low too high anyway, even disregarding moonlight fanatics.


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## Overclocker (Jul 15, 2014)

well nitecore's SENS was a flop. now combine that with fenix' legendary poor mode spacings and what you get is a winner!


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## TweakMDS (Jul 15, 2014)

Overclocker said:


> well nitecore's SENS was a flop. now combine that with fenix' legendary poor mode spacings and what you get is a winner!



well... Afaik the SENS UI was based on upwards direction alone, this has a much better approach with shaking. I could actually see myself using this, but the mode spacing is crummy, although it's very slowly becoming better... They're adding low to some lights that used to have medium and high only, now it just needs to get lower on low and medium


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## magicstone12 (Jul 16, 2014)

looks interesting,diving and use this torch may be useful as you don't need to find the switch,but don't know its performance deep in the water.


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## Lord Flashlight (Jul 16, 2014)

Looks interesting. Don't see any need to replace my E21 though which is one of favorite lights with it's two mode simplicity and decent runtime.


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## TMedina (Jul 16, 2014)

Seriously. I have an E21 and a spare, still in the box when I found out they were discontinuing the line.


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## markr6 (Jul 16, 2014)

TMedina said:


> Seriously. I have an E21 and a spare, still in the box when I found out they were discontinuing the line.



I did the same thing with the PD32UE. Bought several before they started screwing things up...glad I did when they were around $55.


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## monkeyboy (Jul 16, 2014)

+1 on these comments.

This is another perfectly good light ruined by a ridiculous UI. Unfortunately this seems to be the way that a lot of manufacturers are going. I wish they'd just take the old designs and fit them with the latest LEDs.


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## Monocrom (Jul 16, 2014)

monkeyboy said:


> +1 on these comments.
> 
> This is another perfectly good light ruined by a ridiculous UI. Unfortunately this seems to be the way that a lot of manufacturers are going. I wish they'd just take the old designs and fit them with the latest LEDs.



True. At the very least there's a lock-out feature for the ridiculous shake-to-select-mode feature.


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## TweakMDS (Jul 16, 2014)

There's plenty of "normal" 2xAA lights, either with head-twist and a forward or reverse clicky, forward clicky + side switch etc. I still like that Fenix did something completely ridiculous and it even seems reasonably well thought out. Given the choice (and fortunately I have the choice), a SWM M20A or something like that is much more sensible, but when you already have dozens of lights not getting daily use, you have to admit you like collecting and something crazy fits right in there.


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## kj2 (Jul 16, 2014)

TweakMDS said:


> There's plenty of "normal" 2xAA lights, either with head-twist and a forward or reverse clicky, forward clicky + side switch etc. I still like that Fenix did something completely ridiculous and it even seems reasonably well thought out. Given the choice (and fortunately I have the choice), a SWM M20A or something like that is much more sensible, but when you already have dozens of lights not getting daily use, you have to admit you like collecting and something crazy fits right in there.



Sometimes 'we' need something crazy indeed. Flashlight technology is going faster and faster.


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## Infinite Zero (Jul 16, 2014)

Fenix has been really trying to stand out in the past year. First they released the big multi-reflector lights, the TK76 and TK51, then the TK09 with its hybrid momentary on/reverse clicky (also on the new LD09) and now this motion control. 

I like the effort on their part, even if not everything turns into a massive hit. 


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## newbie66 (Aug 9, 2014)

Has anyone got it yet? So far no reviews that I can find...


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## newbie66 (Aug 21, 2014)

Wow, no one has it yet? Really? This is unexpected...


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## martinaee (Aug 21, 2014)

Buy me one and I'll give you my thoughts


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## Monocrom (Aug 22, 2014)

newbie66 said:


> Wow, no one has it yet? Really? *This is unexpected*...



Shouldn't be.

"Hey! Let's take a wonderfully reliable and simple as Hell light that has gained a bit of popularity.... and make it overly complicated for no reason at all. So we alienate everyone who loved the original version. Oh well...."


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## newbie66 (Aug 22, 2014)

martinaee said:


> Buy me one and I'll give you my thoughts




I'll think about it.... when I am rich like Bill Gates.


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## newbie66 (Aug 22, 2014)

Monocrom said:


> Shouldn't be.
> 
> "Hey! Let's take a wonderfully reliable and simple as Hell light that has gained a bit of popularity.... and make it overly complicated for no reason at all. So we alienate everyone who loved the original version. Oh well...."



I see your point. What I am concerned about though is its durability.


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## martinaee (Aug 22, 2014)

newbie66 said:


> I see your point. What I am concerned about though is its durability.



I wouldn't be too concerned about it's day to day durability if you aren't constantly slamming it on the ground hard. The E21 was a pretty robust light for the price.

Some people won't like this UI, but I think it will be good. Just select the mode you want and then lock it and it basically becomes a single mode light. I like it.

Bright guy just did a general overview on it:


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## newbie66 (Aug 23, 2014)

martinaee said:


> I wouldn't be too concerned about it's day to day durability if you aren't constantly slamming it on the ground hard. The E21 was a pretty robust light for the price.
> 
> Some people won't like this UI, but I think it will be good. Just select the mode you want and then lock it and it basically becomes a single mode light. I like it.
> 
> Bright guy just did a general overview on it:




Hopefully it is durable.

Finally there is a video on the light. Heading there now.


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## Danielsan (Sep 7, 2014)

I like the idea but can i permanently save one brightness to the light and make it a single mode light? Like loosen the head, shake to low mode and tighten the head. Will this be stored until i remove the cells? 

A thing that worries is the poor runtime. This one can do one 1Hour24 on high. The Nitecore MT21A can do 2hours5 on high, both the same emitter and comparable lumens on high.


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## magicstone12 (Sep 17, 2014)

motion control is useful when diving,maybe this is why they release the diving flashlight


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## leon2245 (Sep 17, 2014)

Danielsan said:


> I like the idea but can i permanently save one brightness to the light and make it a single mode light? Like loosen the head, shake to low mode and tighten the head. *Will this be stored until i remove the cells? *
> 
> A thing that worries is the poor runtime. This one can do one 1Hour24 on high. The Nitecore MT21A can do 2hours5 on high, both the same emitter and comparable lumens on high.





For sure at least that long. In fact that didn't even occur to me, but that may be the case, you have to reprogram every time you change the batteries. I know some programmables retain memory without, but idk about this one.

Can anyone confirm?


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## LightWalker (Sep 18, 2014)

The tint looks a little purple in that video to me, too bad this light is not available with a neutral white emitter and an OP reflector but Fenix seems to be more concerned with lumen and lux numbers marketing than beam quality.


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## Swedpat (Sep 21, 2014)

LightWalker said:


> The tint looks a little purple in that video to me, too bad this light is not available with a neutral white emitter and an OP reflector but Fenix seems to be more concerned with lumen and lux numbers marketing than beam quality.



I think you should not judge by a photography or a video because a blue/purple tint use to be exaggerated compared to what you percieve with your own eyes. But yes; I also prefer a neutral tint when it's available.

Apart from that I wonder about the reliability of the shaking function. Will it survive a fall of the light to the ground?


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## LightWalker (Sep 21, 2014)

Swedpat said:


> I think you should not judge by a photography or a video because a blue/purple tint use to be exaggerated compared to what you percieve with your own eyes. But yes; I also prefer a neutral tint when it's available.
> 
> Apart from that I wonder about the reliability of the shaking function. Will it survive a fall of the light to the ground?




Yea you are right, photos/videos often exaggerate tints. I just wish Fenix would make some of their smaller pocketable lights available with a neutral emitter and an OP reflector so I don't end up with a ringy green, purple, or blue beam, they should save the smooth reflectors for the bigger lights. Convoy can offer many of their lights with many different emitter choices so I would think that Fenix could offer something besides cool white emitters.

As far as the shake function surviving a fall, that's a good question, it's too new to really know.


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## martinaee (Sep 21, 2014)

Danielsan said:


> I like the idea but can i permanently save one brightness to the light and make it a single mode light? Like loosen the head, shake to low mode and tighten the head. Will this be stored until i remove the cells?
> 
> A thing that worries is the poor runtime. This one can do one 1Hour24 on high. The Nitecore MT21A can do 2hours5 on high, both the same emitter and comparable lumens on high.


Has that been tested for the Nitecore? 2 hours at 260 lumens from 2aa seems pretty high even for the gen 2 xp-e. Even the Fenix E40 with the first gen xp-e (the version I own) is rated 3 hours at 220 lumens and that's off 4aa's. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt the Nitecore using the same emitter and the same battery format and number has such drastically better runtime performance. Maybe I'm wrong though. Is the Nitecore 260 lumens for 2 hours or just 260 lumens then the rest of the time after it drops to a certain level. I'm always just wary about runtimes being supposedly drastically different between lights that come out pretty near eachother and that are using the same batteries and emitters.


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## mpett1 (Jan 9, 2015)

I just picked up one of these. Looks exactly like my E21 and will see how it performs. I will update when I have more info.


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## leon2245 (Jan 9, 2015)

^mind locking out motion control, removing then replacing batteries, then checking to see if lock out was retained through the battery change?


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## mpett1 (Jan 9, 2015)

Sure no problem I will let you know.


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## mpett1 (Jan 14, 2015)

leon2245 said:


> ^mind locking out motion control, removing then replacing batteries, then checking to see if lock out was retained through the battery change?



Leon I have tested the Fenix. Yes it does work. Which ever mode your in at time of turning the light off and or removing the batteries the light will stay in until you shake and change the light mode. If anyone would like a video review let me know.. 

Thanks


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## magicstone12 (Jan 21, 2015)

mpett1 said:


> Leon I have tested the Fenix. Yes it does work. Which ever mode your in at time of turning the light off and or removing the batteries the light will stay in until you shake and change the light mode. If anyone would like a video review let me know..
> 
> Thanks



Hi Mpett1,did you do a video review?


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## Ryp (Jan 21, 2015)

mpett1 said:


> If anyone would like a video review let me know..



I would like a video review.


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## InquisitiveInquirer (Jan 22, 2015)

Anyone knows if you can swap heads from the newer E20 on to the older E21? Physically they look very similar (the beefy body). 

Also, anyone try comparing the throw of this to the Nitecore MT21a?


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## mpett1 (Jan 22, 2015)

Ok no problem I will do a video review. I also have a older E21. They are the exact lights just with updated heads.


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## Grijon (Jan 23, 2015)

Cool, mpett1, thanks - I, too, am looking forward to your review!


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## Stefano (Jan 23, 2015)

Danielsan said:


> A thing that worries is the poor runtime. This one can do one 1Hour24 on high. The Nitecore MT21A can do 2hours5 on high, both the same emitter and comparable lumens on high.





Please note that Nitecore MT21A after a few minutes has a drop in brightness.
This drop is not very visible, MT21A drops from 260 to about 224.lumens.
This drop is a feature Nitecore, serves to protect the LED and save battery.

From Nitecore MT21A User manual:
"Note: After three minutes’ using of turbo mode, the flashlight will lower its
output automatically for preventing overheating, and efficiently ensure the
battery runtime."

(Translation terrible with Google Translate)


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## mpett1 (Jan 23, 2015)

Guys its going to take me a few days to get to this video review very busy. Just mind you it will not be that extensive like the reviews in the review forum. Just doing a go over and may be a few beam shots.


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## Grijon (Jan 24, 2015)

Ha ha, no pressure from me, mpett1; just sharing my support/enthusiasm!


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## mpett1 (Jan 29, 2015)

Here ya go.. Let me know if there is anything else you want to see. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z36hmOxnzxM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36uHNGbpZE


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## leon2245 (Jan 29, 2015)

mpett1 said:


> Leon I have tested the Fenix. Yes it does work. Which ever mode your in at time of turning the light off and or removing the batteries the light will stay in until you shake and change the light mode. If anyone would like a video review let me know..
> 
> Thanks




Awesome, thanks.


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## RobinGonzo (Jan 29, 2015)

German review with impressions and a video link

http://www.taschenlampen-forum.de/showthread.php?t=37245


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## Ryp (Jan 29, 2015)

mpett1 said:


> Here ya go.. Let me know if there is anything else you want to see.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z36hmOxnzxM
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36uHNGbpZE



Great, thanks mpett!


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## mpett1 (Jan 29, 2015)

Sure no problem!


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## Grijon (Jan 30, 2015)

mpett1 said:


> Here ya go.. Let me know if there is anything else you want to see.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z36hmOxnzxM
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36uHNGbpZE



Good job, thank you!


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## ForrestChump (Aug 10, 2015)

Any long term durability feedback for the Fenix E20 2014 edition?

Im curious how that motion sensor holds up after beating it around awhile.


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## Grijon (Aug 11, 2015)

I've had mine around 6 months. I don't use it much, and it's had no problems. (Some feedback is better than no feedback, right?)


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## ForrestChump (Aug 12, 2015)

Grijon said:


> I've had mine around 6 months. I don't use it much, and it's had no problems. (Some feedback is better than no feedback, right?)



Thank you kind Sir. Seems these aren't too popular. I really like the forward clicky, 2 X AA and throw. The UI.....leaves much to be desired. If they made the mode change through the tail switch it would sell like crazy. Im still intrigued though. Just impulse bought an E25 and I am truly blown away by it. This is my first few ventures into Fenix and the beam on that thing is as clean or cleaner than the E1DL. Very impressed....and I don't say that often. The only caveat......I _need_ a tail switch. I didn't find it hard to find at all, but It's just not for me.

Still interested in feedback...... on the E20 2014 durability.....


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## newbie66 (Aug 12, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> Thank you kind Sir. Seems these aren't too popular. I really like the forward clicky, 2 X AA and throw. The UI.....leaves much to be desired. If they made the mode change through the tail switch it would sell like crazy. Im still intrigued though. Just impulse bought an E25 and I am truly blown away by it. This is my first few ventures into Fenix and the beam on that thing is as clean or cleaner than the E1DL. Very impressed....and I don't say that often. The only caveat......I _need_ a tail switch. I didn't find it hard to find at all, but It's just not for me.
> 
> Still interested in feedback...... on the E20 2014 durability.....



Cleaner beam than a SureFire? You have got to be kidding!


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## recDNA (Aug 12, 2015)

I have an old e20. My first quality flashlight. Still works but the focusable head is frozen so I cannot change from spot back to flood. Must be rusted or something.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 12, 2015)

newbie66 said:


> Cleaner beam than a SureFire? You have got to be kidding!



A little more context. In my efforts to remain credible, I have to make a real conscious effort to remain as objective as I can in regards to SF.

The first thing I thought turning on the E25 was the E1DL ( only the E25 works flawlessly ) the E1DL being my favorite light ever but my last SF ever.

I thought this was seriously clean with awesome throw and with a very reasonable and useful spill. I also remember thinking the tint looked more neutral than the_ barely _greenish beam of the E1DL. My mind wandered towards the price point, and the flawless functionality out of the box. The knurling is crisp and the switch was easy to find all while being comfortable to hold. *I was simply blown away. @ $170 more then the MINT CONDITION brand new one Im selling for $30.* The E25 trumps the E1DL. Hands down.

To be fair, I do not have an E1DL in hand and this is purely off memory, not to mention my disappointment with the flickering on the E1DL ( also to be fair, this has been resolved by engineering ). Between the E25 and E20, I simply prefer a tail clicky.




recDNA said:


> I have an old e20. My first quality flashlight. Still works but the focusable head is frozen so I cannot change from spot back to flood. Must be rusted or something.



EEEK! Maybe a lubing? The E20 2014 has a throwy non adjustable beam. They also have "shake to change modes", this is what Im curious about durability wise. Im not crazy about the UI at all, but between the beam, lockout mode and forward clicky, I have to have it.


Still looking for more feedback on the E20 2014 and a buyer for my MINT E25.....


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## recDNA (Aug 13, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> A little more context. In my efforts to remain credible, I have to make a real conscious effort to remain as objective as I can in regards to SF.
> 
> The first thing I thought turning on the E25 was the E1DL ( only the E25 works flawlessly ) the E1DL being my favorite light ever but my last SF ever.
> 
> ...


Cannot get at the part I would need to lube. I'm sure I could unfreeze it with strap wrenches but I always use it focused anyway which is why it froze that way. Had I periodically adjusted focus it wouldn't have had a chance to freeze. I prefer the ui of the old e20 to the newer models but that is a heck of a price. Good luck with sale.

Just unscrewed head with brute force. Ouch. It was really stuck. I guess I need to buy some lube.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 13, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Cannot get at the part I would need to lube. I'm sure I could unfreeze it with strap wrenches but I always use it focused anyway which is why it froze that way. Had I periodically adjusted focus it wouldn't have had a chance to freeze. I prefer the ui of the old e20 to the newer models but that is a heck of a price. *Good luck with sale.*
> 
> Just unscrewed head with brute force. Ouch. It was really stuck. I guess I need to buy some lube.



Thanks!

Is it under warranty? Im having a hard time visualizing why it was frozen other than chemicals or cranking it down.... .. moisture ect...


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## recDNA (Aug 13, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Is it under warranty? Im having a hard time visualizing why it was frozen other than chemicals or cranking it down.... .. moisture ect...


It's 5 or 6 years old so I doubt it was under warranty however it is fixed now. Just needs lube. Actually purchased on 6/22/09 from 4sevens.

I keep it downstairs so it is pretty humid most of the time


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## ForrestChump (Aug 13, 2015)

recDNA said:


> It's 5 or 6 years old so I doubt it was under warranty however it is fixed now. Just needs lube. Actually purchased on 6/22/09 from 4sevens.
> 
> I keep it downstairs so it is pretty humid most of the time




Ahhh... 5 years of humid would reek havoc on anything.

Now you got a kinda new light to play with!


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## recDNA (Aug 15, 2015)

Still like focused beam. Not bright enough to use as flooder. Focused beam looks nice. I think it is an XR-E R2


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## ForrestChump (Aug 15, 2015)

Christmas came a day early yesterday. Very well built, ano is excellent, fit @ finish is better than Surefire on our little Chinese budget light over here. 

Thing is like a laser pointer, it's definitely not EDC orientated, beam is good on Hi / Med the last mode is Green. It's 10 Lumens is dimmer than the E25's 8 lumens, when it should appear 5 x brighter than the E25. It's more comfortable for reading thought as the 8 lumen E25 is Bright.

E20 UI is growing on me. Light flickers in low. Im guaranteeing if I replace it i'll have the same issue. Yes everything is clean.

The E20 is getting mailed back Monday for a refund as Im not playing this low flicker game, same reason I gave up on SF.

The E25 is going back because there is no sense of keeping a light I cant turn on in the dark. To bad, beautiful beam and tint. Excellent fit and finish.

So I have learned that Fenix is better than Surefire in fit and finish, with equivalent reliability for 1/5 the cost.

Looking for an AA light, any recommendations?

Id like it to turn on, be waterproof, durable and run off AAs. Not sure if this is doable?


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## 1DaveN (Aug 15, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> Christmas came a day early yesterday. Very well built, ano is excellent, fit @ finish is better than Surefire on our little Chinese budget light over here.
> 
> Thing is like a laser pointer, it's definitely not EDC orientated, beam is good on Hi / Med the last mode is Green. It's 10 Lumens is dimmer than the E25's 8 lumens, when it should appear 5 x brighter than the E25. It's more comfortable for reading thought as the 8 lumen E25 is Bright.
> 
> ...



Having ruled out the other Fenix 2xAA's, I wonder if you would like the new LD22 (sorry if you've talked about this, I only read your last post). I like the E25 a lot, but I get you on the switch - no argument that it's not easy to find in the dark. That and the lack of momentary are my only complaints with the E25. The LD22 at least addresses the switch complaints, and you might like the low at 5 lumens.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 15, 2015)

1DaveN said:


> Having ruled out the other Fenix 2xAA's, I wonder if you would like the new LD22 (sorry if you've talked about this, I only read your last post). I like the E25 a lot, but I get you on the switch - no argument that it's not easy to find in the dark. That and the lack of momentary are my only complaints with the E25. The LD22 at least addresses the switch complaints, and you might like the low at 5 lumens.




If they simply took the E25 and added a rear forward clicky, ommited the side switch, gave it a true 3-5 lumen low, and left everything the same, I bet it would be one of the top go to lights on CPF hands down. King of the 2 X AA's...

I know the LD series has a healthy track record of reliability, but the strobe / sos / 2 switches is a deal breaker.

I guess what I really am looking for is a Surefire, that isn't a Surefire. I know I could always wonder back to the G2X and get a bombproof light, but all there other stuff is such a disappointment it feels dirty and refuse to support them.

I guess Im looking at Olight now.....they also have way faster ( and actually respond to ) email. The main Fenix email is junk, I've had to forward each email 2 X to get an answer. Im all done with Fenix.

Do companies test lights anymore before shipping them out? How does this go overlooked if it's hooked up to a lightmeter during the testing faze of development?

Im hook line and sinker positive this flicker is an engineering issue just like I had with the 4 SureFires.


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## Grijon (Aug 15, 2015)

I'm sorry to hear about ForrestChump's disappointment with the E20 and Fenix in general.

*For the sake of other readers, though, I'd like to share that my E20 has zero flicker on low (or any mode).* I didn't remember any flicker but wanted to be sure, so I just checked it out - no flicker of any sort.

For my use of the light I simply lock it on medium or high and use it as a single-mode, forward-clicky, throwy light. As always, YMMV!


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## Illum (Aug 15, 2015)

TMedina said:


> Nope, not gonna do it.
> 
> All I keep seeing is every horror movie ever where the next victim is running, screaming frantically for help and the flashlight flickers, then dies. Who knew it was from motion activation?


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## 1DaveN (Aug 15, 2015)

Grijon said:


> I'm sorry to hear about ForrestChump's disappointment with the E20 and Fenix in general.
> 
> *For the sake of other readers, though, I'd like to share that my E20 has zero flicker on low (or any mode).* I didn't remember any flicker but wanted to be sure, so I just checked it out - no flicker of any sort.
> 
> For my use of the light I simply lock it on medium or high and use it as a single-mode, forward-clicky, throwy light. As always, YMMV!



Then I'll throw in my $0.02 to say that while I've never e-mailed them, I've phoned a few times and never been disappointed. The one time I had to leave a message, at the end of the business day on a Friday, they called me back before lunch on the following Monday.

Edit: I did e-mail them once when I got a PD35 with the spare 0-ring missing. Woke up to an e-mail apology including a tracking number for the missing parts.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 15, 2015)

Grijon said:


> I'm sorry to hear about ForrestChump's disappointment with the E20 and Fenix in general.
> 
> *For the sake of other readers, though, I'd like to share that my E20 has zero flicker on low (or any mode).* I didn't remember any flicker but wanted to be sure, so I just checked it out - no flicker of any sort.
> 
> For my use of the light I simply lock it on medium or high and use it as a single-mode, forward-clicky, throwy light. As always, YMMV!




Low mode, put it on your nightstand, point it at the wall 1 ft away, look at the beam. It's there, perhaps "twinkle" would be more appropriate. I have a feeling it's out there and goes unnoticed.

OR 

You could have a perfect sample, and it is batch related or a simply a lemon. My gut tells me option # 1.
I also did a search for this and was shocked how many complaints there are for variouse models with the exact same issue. They were reading and noticed it. Could also just be poor / inconsistent PWM...


In regards to email, I beleive this is heavily related to the distributor. Fenix distribution is crazy, some have 5 year warranty, some have lifetime warranty, some emails no response, some emails fast response. This is what Im gathering from my own experience / what I've read. If I shot an email to Fenix-Store, I have no doubt email would be quick.


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## newbie66 (Aug 15, 2015)

Too bad for Forrest the E20 flickers. Oh well. Gotta wait for someone too chime in with a quality 2xAA budget light. I myself have an Inova X2 and a Nitecore MT21A for 2XAA powered lights. Both will flicker if you don't keep the threads clean.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 15, 2015)

No longer looking for AA....jumping ship... Thanks.


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## PartyPete (Aug 15, 2015)

I like my E25 however, with a tail clicky it would be near perfect.

The control switch isn't very tactical. But as a general purpose light it covers the basics.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 15, 2015)

PartyPete said:


> I like my E25 however, with a tail clicky it would be near perfect.
> 
> The control switch isn't very tactical. But as a general purpose light it covers the basics.



:welcome:


It's essentially a perfect light destroyed by a side switch and a way brighter than "8 Lumen" mode.

1-3 lumen low and a tail switch with momentary away from perfect. They'd sell like iPhones.


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## recDNA (Aug 16, 2015)

My 1st gen e20 works perfectly and has for 6 years. Fenix never should have screwed with it. I mode. Forward clicky. Always works. Good throw.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

100 lumen single mode clicky 2 XAA thrower would be awesome. An even simpler version of the original E20...


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## recDNA (Aug 16, 2015)

Mine only has one mode.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Mine only has one mode.



187 yeah?


Also, I didn't really go over the light with a fine toothed comb, I hit it quick with alcohol and a T-Shirt.

Maybe I should give her another shot....... Im almost certain this is a engineering thing that goes unnoticed as there aren't many people who would read with a light like that...

It's a twinkle, but does seem to have a pattern, the problem is the pattern is inconsistent which looks like a flicker....


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

Alright, Gave her a good bath. ( basically removed any and all lube, everythings clean and bone dry. )

No "flickering to report, but it is daytime......so it's hard to tell.

I will run it through the Forrest test this evening. If it passes without flickering, I will make sure i straighten this thread out for future readers.

Also to note, this is a sample size of 1, the symptoms I have seen before from other manufacturers so I was quick to assume the same.

I _may_ be incorrect, we will find out.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

Flicker.

Dang it.


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## WarRaven (Aug 16, 2015)

That sounds like good news for you Forrest.
Right on.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> Flicker.
> 
> Dang it.



Thanks for the morale support thought. Heres my take as I compulsively read and meticulously inspect lights. I'd wager this is a common problem on most high powered lights regardless of brand. The just don't seem to "settle" at low modes when the drivers are cranking out those lumens at top bill. Like I said before it's a twinkle / flicker and no Joe Blow is going to see it unless she is an avid reader....

Even if we did a pass around, I bet 9/10 CPF'rs would miss it ( not beating my own drum just saying, Im a sick, SICK, OCD flashaholic.)


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

Next question.


Do you think this will potential hurt reliability down the line? Or do guys think it's benign like a PWM whine?

May keep it as a single mode 125..... It fits that roll very well. Reliability first thought....


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## WarRaven (Aug 16, 2015)

So it still flickers?
OK, probably already did but, have you tried different cells?


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> So it still flickers?
> OK, probably already did but, have you tried different cells?



Yup.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

Just threw in 2 Duracells from the drawer.....It REALLY didn't like those. Twinkle to full fledged flicker. 

I matched em up with an OLD battery readier, thing is a tank thought, cells are new but mixed with other cells ( not my stash ).

I've been testing it with lithiums thus far.


Could it be something as simple like a tailcap like on my E1DL? I went threw plenty of caps with that light though, pre engineering fix.


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## WarRaven (Aug 16, 2015)

Maybe run light in high mode for a good while, put new cells in and retest if you got the time an or more importantly the patience.
Laugh but who knows.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Maybe run light in high mode for a good while, put new cells in and retest if you got the time an or more importantly the patience.
> Laugh but who knows.



Tried that. You mean like "fry" it out right? I've gotten the light warm a few times already.


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## WarRaven (Aug 16, 2015)

No hehe, more like burn in.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> No hehe, more like burn in.



I'll try the deep fryer next.

Nothing like home cooked Fenix.



After the Alkaline's ( not sure if that was _tottaly_ fair as they were "drawer" batteries ), She's definitely taking a trip to the post office tomorrow.


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## leon2245 (Aug 16, 2015)

Haha yeah if it passes the F.C. quality test... you _know _it's good!


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## WarRaven (Aug 16, 2015)

Disappointing though I'd wager almost as rare as hens teeth.
Try again.
Edit, I mean, try another light.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

leon2245 said:


> Haha yeah if it passes the F.C. quality test... you _know _it's good!



HA HA Thanks.

Whenever I say "Forrest approved" that light got a SERIOUS inspection. My OCD won't have it any other way. If it's a light Im keeping for awhile it gets extensive water testing.
If it's on the sales thread and like new I inspect all functions to a T, not a twinkle gets by modes, switch inspection, properly cleaned and lubed......... I wish I had a "Forrest Approved" badge...I don't toot my horn on the "Forrest Approved" thing though, I figure I sell or recommend enough lights the rep will catch up to the phrase. Im running out of brands to recommend though...manufacturers have to try harder. I only have 3.




WarRaven said:


> Disappointing though I'd wager almost as rare as hens teeth.
> Try again.
> Edit, I mean, try another light.




Cooked it for a half hour, as predicted this just sped the process of showing the flicker faster after the lights warm. This is identical to the E1DL I had.

Like I said Im pretty sure lights that blast so high have a hard time on low. Im NO expert, just my gut.


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## WarRaven (Aug 16, 2015)

Could be, sounds like a bad light though.
I can't imagine this getting by others and not getting caught or mentioned a fair bit. 
Not to take anything away from or downplay the FC rating guild honestly, just can't see it being a broad issue in this case. 


Even the missed click mystery was found on LD12, wasn't always present or obvious, though it was.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 16, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Could be, sounds like a bad light though.
> I can't imagine this getting by others and not getting caught or mentioned a fair bit.
> Not to take anything away from or downplay the FC rating guild honestly, just can't see it being a broad issue in this case.
> 
> ...




Without other samples it's a toss up. Although I will say there are many positive attributes of the light. If you use it for it's intended purpose and aren't an avid reader or are looking for a twinkle, you should be good to go.....that is _if_ this is even a wide spread problem and not simply a lemon.


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## recDNA (Aug 17, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> 187 yeah?
> 
> 
> Also, I didn't really go over the light with a fine toothed comb, I hit it quick with alcohol and a T-Shirt.
> ...



No idea what output is but i would guess less than 187 with 2xAA and xrer2


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## ForrestChump (Aug 21, 2015)

Fenix E20 2014 - Low Mode flicker 

#2.............


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## WarRaven (Aug 21, 2015)

Are you kidding?
That really sucks.

Apologies for encouraging a second run at the light.
Guess only some are sensitive enough to have experienced it and reported here at CPF. 


You didn't put eye drops in before testing did you 👻


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## ForrestChump (Aug 21, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Are you kidding?
> That really sucks.
> 
> Apologies for encouraging a second run at the light.
> ...




I highly doubt anyone reads with this light. Or for that matter really uses low mode up close on a flat surface.....

This is not an uncommon problem and is also found often in SF lights as well.

I just don't know how any company puts this thing through a light meter and doesn't see the flicker in the chart.

Im positive this is an engineering issue. Perhaps companies think it's not a big deal, or perhaps it adds additional cost to the light vs's the returns they receive?

I have a ProTac 1 AAA that has the most noticeable PWM I have ever experienced, but it is consistent enough to were if you use it for reading, you can't see it on the page. Dosen't bother me at all...0 flicker. 

Other than this issue the light is pretty awesome, the beam is WAY better on this one, the build quality, mode change, fit and finish are all perfect.

What to do?


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## WarRaven (Aug 21, 2015)

Maybe keep it as blaster on high output?

Try stretching spring a wee bit maybe?


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## ForrestChump (Aug 21, 2015)

I think Im going to live with it. The light is pretty darn nice and the price is unbelievably low. I have no doubt this affects many lights form many manufacturers and goes unnoticed.

My magic OCD powers.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 23, 2015)

Seems to only have a twinkle on low using lithium batteries. I don't have any duraloops handy but would guess they would put up a rock solid low mode like the alkalines have been doing.

Thorough cleaning, confirmed twinkle / flicker on low.

None the less, very useful and nice light. Immaculate construction, fit & finish. Excellent tint ( last one was way more on the green side ) and beam. Definitely a thrower, useful spill for up close tasks.

Despite the twinkle everything seems very reliable. The shake feature has a learning curve but is now near instant. This is so you can use the light in a normal manner without accidentally bumping modes, the action is very deliberate to switch modes. Even small drops don't change the output. Running however, I'd lock it out.

Locked out @ 125 your getting around 5 hrs of output off lithium / 2500mah nihm....I think this would make a great LEO light. The non crenelated bezel could definitely take out a window in a pinch. 125 may not sound like much, but it's definitely more than adequate with this beam pattern.

For $30-$35 it's a no brainer.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 23, 2015)

ForrestChump said:


> Seems to only have a twinkle on low using lithium batteries.



Anyone care to chime in as to why? Help a chump out....


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## WarRaven (Aug 23, 2015)

Buck circuit having issues with higher forward voltage of lithium's?

You've no loops?
🔋


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## ForrestChump (Aug 23, 2015)

*Is this something that can put strain on the buck circuit &  it?
*
I only run Lithiums. I got to say, switching over to AA / AAA is WAY more cumbersome, complicated and expensive coming from CR123 Primaries.


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## WarRaven (Aug 23, 2015)

No worse then going to RCR really, except there, your losing or giving up capacity, where as here going to NiMH you're gaining. 
About long term implication or if what I thought is the case,
I can not confirm nor deny that I am sorry.

Though, with some idea and best guesstimates I'm thinking if alkaline work, then NiMH should be fine too.
Might be higher voltage from lithium's causing issue.

Now others can find an give an exact answer, I've not left you alone without at least a guess to what's going on.
Someone is going to eventually say, that's incorrect or stupid so just making my peace there lol.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 23, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Now others can find an give an exact answer, I've not left you alone without at least a guess to what's going on.
> Someone is going to eventually say, that's incorrect or stupid so just making my peace there lol.



:thumbsup:

Thank you.

I do hope someone can tell me what the longterm effects are from running lithiums??? All these views no one knows.....



WarRaven said:


> Someone is going to eventually say, that's incorrect or stupid so just making my peace there lol.




I don't think so _but_ if they did, they would have to deal with me first. :devil: No one messes with Forrest's friends....


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## WarRaven (Aug 24, 2015)

Right on lol, I'm golden then.

Others will weigh in eventually I'd think.
If not may have to grab a pack of loops to test it out and verify if still present. Another way would be,..
When these lithium cells are near worn out,check then.. It'll take a bit to drop their voltage I'd guess too for the record. 
That should give us results to perhaps conclude higher voltage causing flicker.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 24, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Right on lol, I'm golden then.
> 
> Others will weigh in eventually I'd think.
> If not may have to grab a pack of loops to test it out and verify if still present. Another way would be,..
> ...



I think I had a pair of duraloops in the last light and no flicker. I don't have the Duraloops anymore because the crappy charger it came with overcharged all 4 and I returned them.

It looks like you are right, the lithiums in it now have seen some use and the flickering seems slight - gone. Fresh lithiums produce a more noticeable flicker....

The longer I use the lithiums, the less the flicker. It appears almost gone, and I would guess the lithiums are @ 50%.

This kinda sucks because I only run lithiums, they are alot lighter than duraloops, last a long time and are very resilient to storage and temperature changes.

Problem is low mode does get used the most as a candle nightly or for reading. But like I said I could lock it out @ 125 for a single mode with long runtimes, but it sucks that I can't use the lower mode for much until the lithiums simmer down.


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## WarRaven (Aug 24, 2015)

Sorry,.. Appears it's another can't have the cake thing.

Least them lithium's have a long tail of declining energy iirc, so a long time to be enjoyed on low output.

Though, on NiMH, that tail of trailing light will last forever, well about a week short but close just the same.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 24, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> Sorry,.. Appears it's another can't have the cake thing.



I concur, thanks for hanging in there with me.

The light is solid and has potential. To bad they came out with the 2015 just now.....


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## WarRaven (Aug 24, 2015)

👍 
You've never snubbed me and been straight, reply to my replies, why would I not wade in where I can.
You funny to boot ☺
Some you can ask directly and may never hear back.

I'm thinking the 15 model is going to be a great light too, it's on my radar for winter type usage.


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## ForrestChump (Aug 24, 2015)

WarRaven said:


> 
> You've never snubbed me and been straight, reply to my replies, why would I not wade in where I can.
> You funny to boot ☺
> Some you can ask directly and may never hear back.
> ...



Yes, I just did a mini blurb about it in a different thread. It does have a great feature set of general usage light, but by default is very generic in it's conception.

It should be a fine light for power outages and whatnot, I believe it also tailstands. Run it on eneloops and your good to go.


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## WarRaven (Aug 24, 2015)

Agreed sir.


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