# PT EOS Seoul & Reflector Mod Writeup



## tibim

The PT EOS is a reliable and durable headlamp with many great features. However there are a few areas where it can be improved upon, namely the optic and the LED.

The PT EOS produces a beam of light by channeling the output of the LED through an optic. This is adequate for most users, however the produced beam lacks sidespill. In the case of a headlamp sidespill is especially useful as it allows you to light up a larger area for close up work. By removing the optic in favor of a reflector we are able to produce a nice smooth beam with lots of sidespill while still retaining a good central hotspot. 

The other item we can improve upon is the LED. The PT EOS comes with a Luxeon I LED which produces nice bright output, especially for a headlamp. However this LED is somewhat outdated and more recent LEDs can now produce twice the amount of lumens at the same current draw. This is quite an improvement. 

By modifying these two things we are able to make a great headlamp even better. The modification is not difficult and the results are spectacular; well worth the effort put into it.

Tools required:
-Screwdriver
-Drill with small drill bit
-Soldering Iron & Solder
-Scissors
-Round file
-Superglue(optional)
-Penny(optional)
-Dremel(optional)

Materials required:
-Princeton Tec EOS Headlamp (Available from REI, Walmart, and many online sources)
-Seoul P4 U-Bin LED on star (Available from Dealextreme at http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1445 or PhotonFanatic on the CPF forums)
-Fenix reflector for LxT/LxP/LxS series lights (Available from http://fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=154) ****See update at bottom of thread regarding Fenix reflector availability.*

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Procedure:

The first step is gaining access to the circuit board & LED assembly.

Using a screwdriver, loosen the screw on the back of the headlamp to gain access to the battery compartment. Remove the batteries.

You will now need to seperate the battery holder from the headlamp housing.
The battery holder is secured to the housing using two rivets, one on each side. These are visible once you have removed the batteries. 

Using a drill with a small drill bit, drill into each rivet until you are able to pull the battery holder from the headlamp by using your fingers.

In the following picture I have drilled out the rivets and am seperating the battery holder from the headlamp:







After you have the battery holder removed, you will see that on the other side of it is mounted the circuit board and LED/optic assembly:






The optic and "optic holder" can be removed using only your hands to allow access to the LED:






The "star" that the LED is mounted on seems to be superglued to the PCB, but I was able to seperate it fairly easily by just pulling up on it with my fingers:






Now we have access to everything and can begin our modifications. 

To remove the old LED you must de-solder the red and black wires from the + and - contacts on the star. You can also take the easy route and just cut the wires at the star. 

Once the old star is detached, set it aside. It should still be a good and functional LED and you never know if you may use it on a project some day.

Now take your Seoul LED and solder the red(+) and black(+) wires to the contacts marked + and - respectively on the star. Pay special attention to the two notches on the bottom of the optic holder to assure that you are soldering the wires to the star in such a way that they will align with these notches when the optic holder is installed. If you do not do this correctly the wires will keep the optic holder from being able to be flush with the star. 

Once you have finished it will look like this:





Now we are ready to begin installing our new reflector.

Basically the Fenix reflector will fit perfectly and securely into the stock optic holder with minimal changes. The first modification you need to make for the reflector to drop in is to file or dremel down the vertical ridges inside the optic holder. You will also want to remove the plastic that connects from side to side across the bottom of the optic holder. This will allow the new reflector will come down all the way on top of the LED and focus properly. I used a pair of scissors for this task. Pay special attention here and make sure it is not possible for your reflector to touch the solder blobs on the star, causing it to short. This will only be an issue if your solder blobs are too tall. 

After you have the reflector inside the optic holder you are ready to secure everything together, but there is one more issue to address. 

In stock form the PT EOS has a thermal sensor behind the star that detects when the LED is running too hot and cuts down the current to keep it from overheating. Once you install the Seoul star you are left with a gap between the star and the thermal sensor unless you replace the blob that is on the bottom of the original star. 
Keep in mind the Seoul LED is more efficient and runs much cooler than the Luxeon III in the headlamp originally. I did not attempt to connect the star to the thermal sensor and I have run it for extended periods of time with no ill effects. It is quite possible that with this new cooler-running LED and relatively low current output of the EOS driver(~300ma on high) there is no additional heat management necessary. 
However, it would definitely not cause any harm to use some sort of heat transfer material on the bottom of the new star thus connecting it to the thermal sensor in the same fashion as the stock star. I have also heard of people sanding down and gluing pennies to the back of the star to act as sort of a heatsink, which I would recommend as a simple way to help dissipate some excess heat.

We now move on to assembly... 

Install the optic holder with optic over the LED:






Top view:






Now simply put the circuit board/battery assembly back into the headlamp housing. If you drilled out the rivets a little too far, it may be a good idea to put a drop of super glue in each rivet to make sure everything stays secure. 

View from the front with everything installed:






Now install the batteries and hit the power button! You should be presented with something like this:






A nice, bright, smooth beam with lots of spill... Enjoy!

-tibim

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
************ UPDATE 11/2/07 *************
The Fenix reflectors originally used in this mod are no longer available. See the following post for more information: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2209469&postcount=159


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## gunga

*Re: PT EOS Seoul & Reflector Mod*

tibim, you rock, that is outstanding information!

:rock: 

Many thanks! Wonder if I should get another EOS to mod...


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## Supernam

Great detailed instructions and pictures! Which reflector was it that produces a super flood?


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## Pumaman

great writeup, the $4 khatod 17mm reflector from photonfanatic works as well. super useful headlamp. you can basically do the same thing to a streamlight Argo HP as well, if cr123 are your thing.


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## jar3ds

thanks for the write up!


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## TheWalkman

TBIM,

Kudos on an awesome write-up. Well done!


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## tibim

The Khatod 17mm (Which I also have) is also a good choice but I would prefer the fenix reflector over it. First, the khatod doesn't fit as well as the fenix. It is a little too short so you would have to put something behind the LED to push the whole assembly towards the lens. Perhaps this is where you could put in 1 or 2 pennies behind the star and not have to remove the plastic piece originally behind the star. Also while the circumference is the same(I think the khatod is actually very slightly smaller), the Khatod is tapered and the fenix reflector is not. I found with the khatod it would not hold its position reliably inside the optics holder. I may have filed my holder a little too much for the khatod to fit snugly, but I'm sure that I have could fixed this and made it stay with some superglue. Also the fenix reflector is aluminum whereas the khathod is plastic... the fenix reflector may actually help with some heat transfer from the LED (even though it's not in contact with the slug side) because of its close proximity. 

Either way you could interchange these reflectors without much extra work. I still have my khathod and may use it if I decide to mod another EOS. I would still recommend the fenix reflector though because it's as if it was *made* to go in the EOS.

-tibim


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## gunga

Hi tibim. If you have the Khathod stippled reflector, I would be curious to see if it evens out the spill. You'd lose some throw, but perhaps it would make for awesome bright flood. 

The fenix beam is beautiful with the seoul! My cree with pda film is good, but not as crazy smooth...


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## tibim

The khatod reflector I have is smooth, so I can't help you there =)

You can always sputter a smooth reflector yourself and make it as floody as you want. I did this to a maglite reflector once and overdid it a bit, it was a complete flood light... not exactly what I was looking for in this case. 

-tibim


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## gunga

I'm a bit afraid of messing up my reflectors. I'm also lazy. Want fast results.

Maybe I will look into it, pick up some hairspray to practice...


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## NutSAK

gunga said:


> If you have the Khathod stippled reflector, I would be curious to see if it evens out the spill. You'd lose some throw, but perhaps it would make for awesome bright flood.



It certainly does. I have the stippled Khatod in my EOS, and there really is no "hotspot" to speak of. It's all flood, just brighter in the center. I will try to get a beamshot and post it here.

My Khatod reflector fit perfectly between the lens and led after I epoxied a penny--filed smooth on the epoxied side--to the back of the star. No optic holder needed--the pressure will hold it in place.


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## rscanady

tibim said:


> The other item we can improve upon is the LED. The PT EOS comes with a Luxeon III LED which produces nice bright output, especially for a headlamp. However this LED is somewhat outdated and more recent LEDs can now produce twice the amount of lumens at the same current draw. This is quite an improvement.




I believe that the EOS comes with a Lux I (at least mine did) which means that the drive currents are set for a Lux I and not a Lux III, but this just means that the Seoul will be driven at close to spec rather that overdriven. My high mode runs ~300mA, I dont remember the middle and low was around ~70mA or so. I used the Khatod 17 but added a copper sheet to the back that also makes contact with the thermistor to monitor the heat. 

Overall though very easy mod with great results. I think it is definitely worth the ~$15 upgrade.


Excellent writeup including pictures, great job!

Ryan


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## tibim

rscanady said:


> I believe that the EOS comes with a Lux I (at least mine did)


Whoops, you're correct. Updated the writeup. Thanks! 

-tibim


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## jburgett

Great write-up & pictures!

Only one item remains:
Has anyone adjusted the circuit to get a lower-low setting?

Thanks!


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## rfarkash

Anybody know what range of input voltage the regulator on the EOS can handle?
Looking to add an external battery pack and want to know my options.
Thanks
Ron


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## chevrofreak

rfarkash said:


> Anybody know what range of input voltage the regulator on the EOS can handle?
> Looking to add an external battery pack and want to know my options.
> Thanks
> Ron





chevrofreak e-mail to Princeton Tec said:


> Can the Eos run on lithium cells, or is the combined initial voltage higher than the maximum input voltage of the regulator? If not, what is the maximum input voltage for the regulator?





reply from Jay Harrington of Princeton Tec said:


> You can use lithium batteries with the Eos light. We have seen the circuitry handle as much as 7 volts, however if the board is exposed to anything more than 4.5 the warranty will be void.



I'd say that anything from 3v to 7v would be acceptable, but at 3v you will probably only get the lower levels running at full power. The PT EOS circuit does very well on a single Li-Ion, such as an 18650.


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## rfarkash

Perfect!  Just what I was looking for.
Thanks for the reply.
Ron


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## NutSAK

chevrofreak said:


> ..but at 3v you will probably only get the lower levels running at full power.



Isn't it running at 4.5 volts in stock form?


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## jar3ds

NutSAK said:


> Isn't it running at 4.5 volts in stock form?


 um... yep.... thats why chev said that if you only have v in @ 3v you'll only get the lower levels... my personal experience is that at about 3.5v-ish it drops out of high regulation...


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## NutSAK

Ah, I misunderstood what he was saying. Makes sense now, thanks.


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## allxring

Thanks for this write up. I did my EOS tonight, and it's awesome.


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## Hockeymoose

Does this mod (excellent work by the way) enhance the runtime? It should work with an IMS17 also or?

THX, Moose


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## barkingmad

Would this work as well with a CREE instead of a Seoul star?

I did it to one with a Seoul star - very quick and easy mod - also tried it with a few different reflectors and the stock PT EOS reflector is not bad itself...?


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## jar3ds

sure... doing it with a CREE will make it harder to get a reflector to work... also.. the stars on the CREE aren't as good as the SSC


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## gunga

I used a cree star (before the seouls were available) and used a drilled out, filed down IMS17. Just recently re-used the optic holder to hold the star on and added a diffusion film. Works quite well. The beam would probably be smoother with a seoul, but I'm pretty happy.

Will have to check out a Zebralight when they come out...

jar3ds, what do you mean the cree stars aren't as good?


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## barkingmad

I like the PT Eos as a headlamp so bought another as a bike (front) lamp - will stick a CREE in this one to compare.

Still think the stock optic is quite good (fairly similar to a smooth reflector) but a stippled reflector certainly gives much more flood / diffused beam. I have got a variety of reflectors to try but the stock one is zero cost and a perfect fit - so you can do the upgrade for about US$8 (i.e. just the cost of the star).


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## mosport

Nice writeup and pics tibim, thanks for taking the time to detail the steps.

Modded another EOS with P4 and wanted to share a little tweak to get rid of a rattling Khatod 17mm reflector that was driving me nuts! Used a thick rubber band from supermarket produce as a sleeve to grip the reflector inside the holder, filling up the gap and eliminating all movement. Practically invisible when completed and this way you won't risk damaging the silicone lens by crazy gluing the reflector to P4 shoulder.

Also made a thin slit on the lower left and upper right optic mounting tabs with a razor blade, allowing easier removal of the black optic-reflector holder. Sometimes these tabs are really stubborn to get off the 4 grey posts, so if you slit them before removing the stock LUX and slide a razor under the star you'll reduce the risk of breaking the fragile glass thermal sensor.

Plus now you're all set for the next generation LED whatever that is and whenever it's available


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## f22shift

any lumen rating? would this be brighter than a petzl myo xp? how would this compare to a princeton tec apex center light.?


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## chevrofreak

My guess (which is just that since I have not done this mod myself) would be that an SSC P4 U bin would be about 60 lumens on High in the EOS. I figure my R bin LuxI light is 32 lumens on high, so just about double that for the Seoul.


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## glyphin

Nice writeup and pictures. Seems straightforward to follow. Still...

Anybody want to sell me a pre-modded EOS? One that follows the specs above would be perfect. PM me. Thanks!


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## greenLED

chevrofreak said:


> My guess (which is just that since I have not done this mod myself) would be that an SSC P4 U bin would be about 60 lumens on High in the EOS. I figure my R bin LuxI light is 32 lumens on high, so just about double that for the Seoul.


You guys... quit twisting my arm!


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## LEDAdd1ct

glyphin said:


> Nice writeup and pictures. Seems straightforward to follow. Still...
> 
> Anybody want to sell me a pre-modded EOS? One that follows the specs above would be perfect. PM me. Thanks!



Hi all! I am new to CPF, but not to LED lights in general. Gotta love 'em! This is a really great write-up, but I am definitely solder-shy. As mentioned above, I would definitely like to buy one of these pre-modded. If anyone has one already modded they would like to sell, or, would consider making for me, PM me and we'll talk.


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## cave dave

Soldering is the easiest and fastst part of this mod. Breaking open the case and fooling with the reflector is harder. The P4 Star alread have solder blobs. So all you need to do is hold the wire on top and touch it with a soldering iron for a sec or two. Practice on some resistors from an old circuit board.


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## Propretor

tibim said:


> Whoops, you're correct. Updated the writeup. Thanks!
> 
> -tibim


 
Hi!:wave:
At me 3 questions.:candle:
1. In Princeton Tec EOS is mounted Lumileds (Philips) Luxeon LXHL-MW1D?
2. If it so, why Princeton Tec informs about 25lm, and you write about 32lm?
According to the documentation, LXHL-MW1D has 45lm at 350ma.
3. What current (in ma) flows through LED In a mode of the maximal brightness?


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## greenLED

I followed mosport's idea, but used some of thin craft foam instead of the rubber band. The results are the same: no wobble and tight fitting of the reflector.

I just got another Eos; maybe I'll do a Seoul mod on it. 




mosport said:


>


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## Propretor

Has not waited of the answer to the questions...
There were new questions:
1. What Width Beam of optics PT EOS?
2. What Width Beam of optics PT Apex?


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## Esthan

I've probably been "luckier" than most of You.

I needed to cut the plastic holder in half and then squeeze the 
reflector in - else it wouldn't fit. After that a final touch of a lot 
of tape on the outside to keep it from falling away, and it works


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## tibim

Propretor said:


> Hi!:wave:
> At me 3 questions.:candle:
> 1. In Princeton Tec EOS is mounted Lumileds (Philips) Luxeon LXHL-MW1D?
> 2. If it so, why Princeton Tec informs about 25lm, and you write about 32lm?
> According to the documentation, LXHL-MW1D has 45lm at 350ma.
> 3. What current (in ma) flows through LED In a mode of the maximal brightness?


 
1. Exactly. 
2. I don't remember claiming it was 32 lumens but anywhere from 25-35 sounds like an acceptable range for the light... It comes down to chance and sometimes you end up with a better bin LED and slightly more lumens.
3. I have heard it's 300ma but have not measured it myself.

For the other two questions I don't know what you mean. With the stock optic the beam is pretty narrow but not as bad as say a KL1. I don't have an apex to compare it to. In my opinion the EOS is much better for all around usage with a reflector instead of the stock optic. 

-tibim


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## Propretor

Thank for the answer.
If I correctly have understood (English not my native language),
Princeton Tec is insured, underestimating the declared brightness in 25lm.
I studied the documentation (datasheet) on Luxeon LXHL-MW1D, but where has not found BIN-marks on him. About what there is a speech?
I have EOS and Apex. The measurements with the help of a ruler and calculator have given:
EOS - 7 degrees Width Beam 
Apex - 18 degrees Width Beam.
The brightness at the centre, approximately, is identical.
Also it would be desirable to learn, what optics uses Princeton Tec in EOS and Apex.
Why reflector the lenses are better?


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## tibim

Propretor said:


> Thank for the answer.
> If I correctly have understood (English not my native language),
> Princeton Tec is insured, underestimating the declared brightness in 25lm.
> I studied the documentation (datasheet) on Luxeon LXHL-MW1D, but where has not found BIN-marks on him. About what there is a speech?
> I have EOS and Apex. The measurements with the help of a ruler and calculator have given:
> EOS - 7 degrees Width Beam
> Apex - 18 degrees Width Beam.
> The brightness at the centre, approximately, is identical.
> Also it would be desirable to learn, what optics uses Princeton Tec in EOS and Apex.
> Why reflector the lenses are better?



The bin is specific to each unit and defines the color (tint) and efficiency(output) of that LED. See http://home.comcast.net/~theledguy/bin_codes/index.htm for more information. The bin is printed on the back of each star next to the serial number and other information.

Switching from the PT EOS optic to a reflector makes the width of the beam greater. It will still have a bright center, but instead of abrupt darkness it will be surrounded by a wide less intense circle of light. Most people prefer this as it lets you see a larger area without having to move the light around. 

I dont know any more technical information about the optic they use in the PT EOS and APEX.

-tibim


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## cave dave

Princeton Tec seems to be one of the few manufactures that are using true out the front Lumens. :thumbsup:


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## Propretor

Thanks.


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## LEDAdd1ct

cave dave said:


> Soldering is the easiest and fastst part of this mod. Breaking open the case and fooling with the reflector is harder. The P4 Star alread have solder blobs. So all you need to do is hold the wire on top and touch it with a soldering iron for a sec or two. Practice on some resistors from an old circuit board.



Thank's cave dave!  I really should start experimenting soon, but another CPF member sold me his pre-modded light. I can't wait to get it and try it out on a hike!



LEDAdd1ct


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## AvroArrow

My SSC P4 USV0H stars & 17mm Khatod reflectors finally came in so I just did the mod last night. Oh yeah, thanks for the tip about the rubber band mosport! That really helped to center the reflector as well as stop the rattling. 

Anyway, I did the mod and... yes it's brighter... but I'm not that impressed. Maybe I was too caught up the in the hype of the new Crees/SSC P4s (this is my 1st actual Cree or SSC mod), but it just doesn't look that much brighter than the my old mod (just swapped the optic for an IMS17). The hot spot is about the same as before, but the flood/sidespill is brighter... but not WOW!!! eye scorchingly bright. I guess all the extra lumens from the U-bin went to the flood beam instead of the hotspot. Mind you, the stock Lux1 was a RX0H and the swap was to SSC USV0H, so maybe it wasn't a big enough jump in lumens for my eyes to really notice. Regardless, it's still dimmer than my stock HDS U60GT on max (my reference light), but much floodier. And it's still much better than a completely stock EOS.


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## gunga

Which reflector did you use Avro? SMooth or stippled?

I'm waiting for my stuff to arrive so I can do the mod also, I want to try a stipple to get a smooth flood...


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## AvroArrow

gunga said:


> Which reflector did you use Avro? SMooth or stippled?



I was using a smooth 17mm Khatod. I actually have a stippled 17mm Khatod also. I played with the stippled a bit during the mod, but it was still too much light from outside so I couldn't get a good comparison versus my old IMS17 mod. From what I can remember, the stippled was almost all flood that fades away at the edges and had a sort of bright spot in the middle, but it wasn't a traditional hot spot, just a brighter spot. The 17K smooth has a beam that looks more like a IMS17, but different. The IMS17 has a very distinct and sharp hotspot (with a luxeon anyway) with a very even flood around it. The 17K smooth has a hotspot that's less distinct and it kind of blends into the flood that fades out at the edges. And mine was just the slightest bit ringy near the edge of the flood. I'll try to take some beamshots to give a better idea and also so I have a better idea of before and after improvments. I still have a stock EOS that needs an upgrade.


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## gunga

Actually, I just completed this mod. Used a Khatod stipple 17mm reflector.

:twothumbs

THis is exactly what I want. A nice, smooth flood, with super bright spill. I slight "hotspot", but nothing that will blind you at short range.

THis is definitely not a thrower, but I've wanted a Seoul/Cree flood headlamp for awhile. My last mod (a Cree) was pretty sweet, but more throwy than I wanted.

THis one is SWEET! I won't hold my breath if the Zebralight doesn't pan out (still hoping), I'm glad to have a sweet floody EOS. I much prefer this over the angry Blue Nichias in the (very nice un-modded) PT Quad.

Cheers to PhotonFanatic for offering such great stuff!


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## AvroArrow

For those contemplating which Khatod 17mm reflector to use for their SSC/Khatod mod, here's a couple of beamshots (sorry for the weird tilt in the beam pattern, but I couldn't get the EOS's to sit straight).

Khatod 17mm smooth:







Khatod 17mm stipple:






I haven't really had a chance to use these outdoors yet, so I'm not sure which is more useful, but they are definitely brighter than stock.


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## ttay1977

Here's my beam shots:

SSC w/ Khatod 17mm smooth vs stock





SSC w/ Khatod 17mm stipple vs stock


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## trentwebb

Great writeup and tips for this mod! I just bought an EOS and it seems like the Fenix reflectors are discontinued. Anyone hava a source for them? Thanks.


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## AvroArrow

If you can't get the Fenix reflector, just get Khatod 17mm reflectors from PhotonFanatic in Dealers section on CPFMarketPlace. That's what I used for my beamshots a few posts up. You will have to do the rubberband trick that mosport mentioned, but it works great.


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## trentwebb

Thanks, I'll do that.


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## coors

I just received my PT EOS and I've just been testing it against my Myo XP in a dark room. It's actually brighter than the 3w XP, but it has no "spill" like the XP. After seeing the "beamshots" of the modified EOSs, I just ordered 2x Seoul SSC P4s to modify my EOS. I see that the Fenix reflectors are all gone, so I'd like to get the afore mentioned Khatod 17 reflector, but I do not know how to go about finding these. Does someone have a direct link to a sellers Khatod 17 page? 

coors


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## RickyT

coors said:


> I just received my PT EOS and I've just been testing it against my Myo XP in a dark room. It's actually brighter than the 3w XP, but it has no "spill" like the XP. After seeing the "beamshots" of the modified EOSs, I just ordered 2x Seoul SSC P4s to modify my EOS. I see that the Fenix reflectors are all gone, so I'd like to get the afore mentioned Khatod 17 reflector, but I do not know how to go about finding these. Does someone have a direct link to a sellers Khatod 17 page?
> 
> coors



Fred is the guy to see *Khatod Optics and Reflector for the P4.*

He has lots of goodies, and speedy shipping.


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## cave dave

I buy the reflectors, Thermal compound, and LEDs all from the same place.
PhotonFanatic aka Fred.

For bike helmet use keep the stock optic, if you also have a floody bar light.


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## barkingmad

Was doing a few of these for friends and accidentally broke the thermal sensor (underneath the star) when removing it from one of them. Does anyone know of a suitable replacement part - or have one spare / know where I can get one?



BTW it does not work just 'wired' through (tried it) - light comes on and goes off about 5 seconds later.


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## cave dave

This seems to be the most common mod boo boo for the EOS.

Try it with the sensor open circuit.


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## barkingmad

cave dave said:


> This seems to be the most common mod boo boo for the EOS.
> 
> Try it with the sensor open circuit.


 
Tried it open and closed - the light still seems to turn off after a few seconds.


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## KrisP

I snapped my sensor too so I just cut it off, works fine without it.

I've also been using mine without a reflector at all the perfectly even flood is much more useful than a focused beam for my uses


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## gunga

Try the stippled reflector. It will give you a lot more light and still a great flood.


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## KrisP

Yeah, I plan to do that eventually but Fred needs a min. order of $20 and I don't need anything else for a while


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## barkingmad

KrisP said:


> I snapped my sensor too so I just cut it off, works fine without it.
> 
> I've also been using mine without a reflector at all the perfectly even flood is much more useful than a focused beam for my uses


 
Are you sure... thought I tested it like that and it kept powering down?

I find the stock optic works fine - tried various different reflectors but the stock one seems good with a Seoul.

Also modded a Petzl Tikka XP with a Seoul - think the downside is that is it not 'regulated' like the EOS but the slide across diffuser is great and lets you go ultra-flood very easily. You can even get different coloured diffusers so you can have either white 'beam' or red (or green or blue or white) diffused light.


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## barkingmad

barkingmad said:


> Are you sure... thought I tested it like that and it kept powering down?
> 
> I find the stock optic works fine - tried various different reflectors but the stock one seems good with a Seoul.
> 
> Also modded a Petzl Tikka XP with a Seoul - think the downside is that is it not 'regulated' like the EOS but the slide across diffuser is great and lets you go ultra-flood very easily. You can even get different coloured diffusers so you can have either white 'beam' or red (or green or blue or white) diffused light.


 
Not quite sure what's going on - came back to look at it today (with the circuit closed still) and the light stays on - desoldered the wire (circuit now open) - still works... bizarre! Must have been doing it too late... :thinking:


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## coors

I received my Seoul SSC P4s today and put one in the EOS. I have a lightmeter and checked the lights output, both before and after the Seoul upgrade. According to my meter the Seoul gives around 75% more light than the Luxeon. Thanks CaveDave for recommending the use of the stock optic. The Khatod stippled 17mm reflector, which I've ordered but haven't received yet, I take gives a floody beam that is best for up close work and is not good for my intended use... which is as my sole source of light for night time bicycling. The stock EOS is very good for my summer night time bikepath riding. The original posters beamshot (thank you for posting this technical info... I'd have never figured out this stuff on my own!), with the Fenix reflector, is exactly what I'd like to have... a superbright spot with very nice spill. The stock optic is no where near as nice, in my opinion. I know that the "Fenix store" is sold out of these reflectors, but I'd very much like to get one if possible. Is there any other source for these?

coors


----------



## tibim

coors said:


> I received my Seoul SSC P4s today and put one in the EOS. I have a lightmeter and checked the lights output, both before and after the Seoul upgrade. According to my meter the Seoul gives around 75% more light than the Luxeon. Thanks CaveDave for recommending the use of the stock optic. The Khatod stippled 17mm reflector, which I've ordered but haven't received yet, I take gives a floody beam that is best for up close work and is not good for my intended use... which is as my sole source of light for night time bicycling. The stock EOS is very good for my summer night time bikepath riding. The original posters beamshot (thank you for posting this technical info... I'd have never figured out this stuff on my own!), with the Fenix reflector, is exactly what I'd like to have... a superbright spot with very nice spill. The stock optic is no where near as nice, in my opinion. I know that the "Fenix store" is sold out of these reflectors, but I'd very much like to get one if possible. Is there any other source for these?
> 
> coors



Yes with the fenix reflector you do have a very bright hotspot with good spill. It would be perfect for your biking application. The stock optic is OK but with the fenix reflector it's a large improvement all around. I use mine for cross country skiing in the winter so I know what you're looking for as a biker is pretty similar to what I need.

Unfortunately I talked to foursevens(Fenixstore owner) personally and he let me know that he is indeed out of this reflector and is not planning to order any more. 

On a positive note chevrofreak informed me that there is a very similar if not identical reflector used by Huntlight, however he has not received a reply from JSB regarding this. 

Also I believe the Khatod non-stripped reflectors don't have much more of a flood pattern than the fenix reflector... These would be my recommendation for now...

-tibim


----------



## greenLED

You can always use an IMS17.


----------



## jdriller

+1 green


----------



## ArisaemaDracontium

I just completed my first two LED light mods installing Seoul P4s in my EOS and Apex (also extended the cable on the Apex). I just wanted to say thanks to everyone on this thread for the good reading. You have been a great help.

As for the optics, for cycling I would stick with the stock optic. I bought the 17mm  Khatod Smooth Reflector with my new emitter. I tried it out, but it doesn't seem to have anywhere near the same punch at distance. Definitely a nice big corrona that I'm sure would be good for general use, but for cycling its all about the punch. I put the stock optic back in.

On the trail you need to scan for obstacles far ahead, by the time they are within 5-10 feet of you your body should just automatically respond to them while you are consciously scanning for the next obstacle out in the distance. On the road/in town I really like to have the punch to shine it in the eyes of any cars that might try to take a turn in front of me if they don't see me. Most common way to get hit on a bike, and it happened to me once. Never again.


----------



## greenLED

AD, could you please post pics of your cable extension?


----------



## Edwood

tibim said:


> Yes with the fenix reflector you do have a very bright hotspot with good spill. It would be perfect for your biking application. The stock optic is OK but with the fenix reflector it's a large improvement all around. I use mine for cross country skiing in the winter so I know what you're looking for as a biker is pretty similar to what I need.
> 
> Unfortunately I talked to foursevens(Fenixstore owner) personally and he let me know that he is indeed out of this reflector and is not planning to order any more.
> 
> On a positive note chevrofreak informed me that there is a very similar if not identical reflector used by Huntlight, however he has not received a reply from JSB regarding this.
> 
> Also I believe the Khatod non-stripped reflectors don't have much more of a flood pattern than the fenix reflector... These would be my recommendation for now...
> 
> -tibim



Too bad the LxT reflectors are no longer available.

I wonder if the LxD reflectors would work with the Cree LED?

https://www.fenix-store.com/product...d=316&osCsid=d1115b6065e55dfc0ff6a92e262f87e3

I just soldered a WG Q5 Cree in place.







Working reflectorless as a "Mule" right now

-Ed


----------



## ArisaemaDracontium

greenLED said:


> AD, could you please post pics of your cable extension?



I could post a photo if you really want, but there's not really much to see. Basically, I took about three feet of power cord I had laying around, which is similar to the Apex's cord, and spliced it in the middle. Honestly I don't know much about it, just enough to be dangerous.

I used these little aluminum connectors my father had given me (he does some electrical work at his job). You take the, say the positive wire, strip a bit of the insulation off, stick it in this Al tube and crimp it in place. Do the same for the wire you're splicing in, sticking it in the other end of the tube. Then I dropped a little sodder in the little hole in the middle to make it a bit more secure. Finally slide some heat shrink wrap over it for insulation. Repeat for the negative wire. Then shrink wrap over the whole thing. Repeat for the other end of the spliced in wire. 

Pretty crude, but it works.


----------



## coors

Edwood said:


> Too bad the LxT reflectors are no longer available.
> 
> I wonder if the LxD reflectors would work with the Cree LED?
> 
> https://www.fenix-store.com/product...d=316&osCsid=d1115b6065e55dfc0ff6a92e262f87e3
> 
> I just soldered a WG Q5 Cree in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working reflectorless as a "Mule" right now
> 
> -Ed


I just bought a set of 5x 17mm aluminum mirror reflectors, for the Seoul emitters, from this guy: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=168062 . He also has the 17mm reflectors for the Cree, in lots of 5x. It will be up to 2 weeks before I take delivery of these reflectors, but I'll try to post some beamshots and real world shot comparisons (with the stock optic) then.
I've been using the Seouled EOS for my 36.6mile nightime bike ride, which I do every other night. I can now go full speed now and not worry about anything, as I can see nightrunners and others for a long way off, now. Absolutely impressive improvement... for $6.95!!! I'm thinking that I'd like to find a Seoul Q5 for an even bigger imrovement, which I'll need for my winter nightime riding. The Cree XR-E Q5 that Deal Extreme is selling, for $10 apiece, looks interesting too. 

coors


----------



## Lux Luthor

ArisaemaDracontium said:


> ...As for the optics, for cycling I would stick with the stock optic. I bought the 17mm  Khatod Smooth Reflector with my new emitter. I tried it out, but it doesn't seem to have anywhere near the same punch at distance. Definitely a nice big corrona that I'm sure would be good for general use, but for cycling its all about the punch. I put the stock optic back in.
> 
> On the trail you need to scan for obstacles far ahead, by the time they are within 5-10 feet of you your body should just automatically respond to them while you are consciously scanning for the next obstacle out in the distance. On the road/in town I really like to have the punch to shine it in the eyes of any cars that might try to take a turn in front of me if they don't see me. Most common way to get hit on a bike, and it happened to me once. Never again.



I've done a lot of experimenting with the stock optic and satin scotch tape. There is this stuff that provides very mild diffusion, and I use two coats at right angles applied directly over the optic. It's 3M Scotch satin finish giftwrap tape. This is not the regular satin stuff, it looks almost clear, and comes in a purple colored package.

I still get decent throw, more light to the sides, and I can still use it at close range (say on low, since it's too bright on high). The Seouls from DX are excellent. Very white, with maybe a very slight lean to the warm side. Perfect for outdoors. I't just a pleasure to use this light this way.


----------



## coors

A couple of questions that I want to ask are:
1) Does the star that the emitter is mounted onto matter? Are the Deal Extreme stars



as good as the ones that I see the word "Seoul" written on?
2) Can anyone comment on the finish of these Cree reflectors?




The image, which is not mine, shows 5x reflectors sitting in the business end of a D-size maglite. What is the purpose of the unique reflective finish of these reflectors? Are these good for spot, spill or what? 
These may be dumb questions, but I need to ask them to learn.

coors


----------



## KrisP

The SSC stars i've got from DX have had Seoul written on them. They must get different stock sometimes. I'm not sure if they're any different in quality though.

Those reflectors are medium orange peel. The idea of orange peel is to diffuse the light for more spill/flood.


----------



## chevrofreak

Edwood said:


> I wonder if the LxD reflectors would work with the Cree LED?



They won't fit in the EOS.


----------



## coors

The Khatod reflector that I'd ordered arrived today. Actually it's not the stippled reflector that I was expecting, but it's the smooth mirror type one instead. The reflector is much smaller in diameter than the stock optic. When I put it all together the reflector was moving around in the optic holder, so I cut a 1/8" width strip of double tape sided 1.5mm thick foam and applied that to the outside of the reflectors edge. I left the tape on the outside of the foam, so that I could easily slip the reflector in and out of the optic holder as needed. That cured the loose reflector and keeps it centered perfectly:




I did some outdoor test shots and I have come to the same conclusion as others in that I think that the stock optic is much better than the Khatod reflector, for riding a bicycle at night.
Stock optic:




17mm Khatod Mirror Reflector:




The test shots were shot on different nights but the conditions were exactly the same and the same lens and exposure settings were utilized, as well. The stock optic just puts out noticeably more light, for whatever reason. I've left the Khatod in the EOS, as I haven't rode at night using this reflector yet. Based on the images above I expect it to do somewhat poorly compared to the stock optic... which amazes me on every ride, now.
Also, I thought I'd show my little light that I carry for seeing to swap batteries in the EOS:





coors


----------



## fishx65

I just found out that the reflector from a Dorcy Super 1 Watt 1-123 works very well in this EOS mod. Has a nice hotspot with plenty of spill. The Dorcy reflector is the exact same size and shape as the black optic holder of the EOS so it just takes the place of the whole thing. It's just a little taller so it does need to be sanded down a bit. It has to be shortened from the top of the reflector rather then the bottom or else it will lose the nice hotspot. I know, $20.00 for a reflector is kinda steep!


----------



## bluemax_1

So how is the Cree Q5 working out? I just ordered both a Seoul P4 and Cree Q5 from DealExtreme. Was wondering which would work out better for the EOS.

BTW, for the folks who've done the Seoul P4 conversion, would you say that the Low level now is as bright as the Medium level used to be with the stock Luxeon? That or better would be nice. I tend to find the Medium setting good for most things and it gave about 10 hours of continuous use before dimming noticeably on 900mAH NiMH cells. Getting 40-50+ hours of the same brightness on 1000mAH cells would be great.


Max



Edwood said:


> Too bad the LxT reflectors are no longer available.
> 
> I wonder if the LxD reflectors would work with the Cree LED?
> 
> https://www.fenix-store.com/product...d=316&osCsid=d1115b6065e55dfc0ff6a92e262f87e3
> 
> I just soldered a WG Q5 Cree in place.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Working reflectorless as a "Mule" right now
> 
> -Ed


----------



## jch79

I swapped mine out last night for a Seoul USV0H star and a shortened McR-18... worked like a charm - especially for a guy who's never soldered before in his life!


----------



## rscanady

Glad to see this thread still going. I still use my Seoul modded EOS a lot and like it immensely. 

I recently aquired a Black Diamond Icon and ripped it apart and found that the main emitter sits square on a nice big heatsink 

So time to Seoul the BD Icon now also....


Ryan


----------



## coors

After riding my local bikepath for a little over 2 hours the other night, with the Khatod mirrored surface reflector, I went ahead and put the stock optic back in the EOS. The wide beam that is cast about 150 -200 feet out in front of the bike, when using the stock optic, is so much nicer (in my opinion) than the tiny bit more cast into the distance that I get with the Khatod. I still wish that I'd have gotten one of the Fenix reflectors before they were gone... just to see how it differs from the others. Besides the aluminum mirrored reflectors that are on their way to me, I may try out one of the 17mm IMS reflectors... which were suggested earlier. Does anyone have any comments on using the IMS reflectors? By the way, I was going to modify my Petzl Myo XP with a Seoul emitter but when I learned what "regulation" actually is, and knowing that the XP is not regulated nor can it be used with lithiums, I went ahead and sold it to help finance my "experimenting" with regulated headlamps. Someone mentioned to me, not long ago, that I need to hold onto my wallet... if I were to hang around here. How prophetic!

coors


----------



## cave dave

IMS reflector is a bit ringy. But combined with some writeright film its very nice.


----------



## jch79

cave dave said:


> IMS reflector is a bit ringy. But combined with some writeright film its very nice.



Exactly why I used a McR-18 with a Seoul.


----------



## greenLED

A plain-jane (Lux) McR-18?


----------



## coors

jch79 said:


> I swapped mine out last night for a Seoul USV0H star and a shortened McR-18... worked like a charm - especially for a guy who's never soldered before in his life!


Can you comment on how you trimmed the MCR18 to make it work in the EOS? Also, what kind of beam pattern are you getting with this modified reflector? Any possibility of beamshots?

coors


----------



## coors

I just received the 5x 17mm mirrored aluminum minimag reflectors, specifically made for the Seoul and Luxeon emitters. These are like the khatod reflectors in that they drop right in, but they are loose... though not as loose as the khatods. I had to use 1.5mm double tape sided foam here, too... but I will try to find something thinner to shim with as the 1.5mm stuff is too tight. I also decided to take some beamshots with all 3 reflector types:
Stock Optic:






Khatod reflector:





Minimag reflector:





I'm quite looking forward to trying out the new minimag reflector in the seouled EOS, as it looks like it really throws some strong light in all kinds of ways. Tonight is my bike ride night... so I don't have to wait long.

coors


----------



## mosport

Thanks for sharing those beamshots coors! Looking forward to hearing your impressions and feedback from tonight's ride...

Personally I like the stock optic's intensity, but prefer to have some sidespill as well. Download's 17mm mirrored aluminum reflectors give a nice combination of the stock optic's larger spot and khatod's wider spill. Too bad they're all sold out, if you're selling any of the remaining reflector set please PM me 

As for using the McR18 reflector, I shortened one for jar3ds' EOS last summer to his specs and posted DIY instructions with pics here. Unable to provide any relative feedback since this was over a year ago (before I even had my EOS). In any case, TheShoppe is currently sold out of the plain McR18 reflectors.

Derek


----------



## coors

Ok, I know that people have to be sick of me posting so much but I have one more set of 'real life' images to share before I go ride my bicycle and try out the Seouled EOS with MiniMag reflector. These images were all shot on different nights but the same camera, lens, aperture and shutter speed values were utilized each time.

Stock Optic





Khatod reflector





Minimag reflector





Even before riding, I already know that the Minimag reflector will be staying in the EOS... unless something better comes along. I'm VERY impressed with this reflector!

coors


----------



## gunga

Heya, is this the reflector that comes in a minimag LED?

Where does one get these reflectors?


----------



## jch79

greenLED said:


> A plain-jane (Lux) McR-18?



:thumbsup: Yup!



coors said:


> Can you comment on how you trimmed the MCR18 to make it work in the EOS? Also, what kind of beam pattern are you getting with this modified reflector? Any possibility of beamshots?



I just filed a _tiny_ bit off of both ends of the reflector with a flat file. It probably would have fit without any modification, but I feel like I did more of a mod if I saw metal shavings (or dust!) :laughing:

The beam is awesome - just what you'd expect from one of Don's reflectors! I'll take some photos of the mod tomorrow - as for beamshots, I might be able to get around to take some, but I'm not sure what light I'd compare it to? :shrug: Maybe a SPY005 w/ Seoul, set to approx. the same brightness?

 john


----------



## coors

gunga said:


> Heya, is this the reflector that comes in a minimag LED?
> 
> Where does one get these reflectors?


 
I don't know, but I think that it's a custom made reflector for using in Seouled or Luxeoned MiniMags. This is the guy that I bought mine from https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168062 but he seems to be temporarily out. If you're interested I can sell you one of my spares.

coors


----------



## cave dave

The foam tape is a good idea. I stirred up some glow powder in Epoxy and used that but its fairly permanent. I also filed away a flat on the edge of the reflector and put in some H3.


----------



## Cuso

OK, whos gonna be the first one to put a Rebel in their EOS.


----------



## coors

I've decided to try out my modified EOS as a handlebar light, given the fact that it's my best headlamp for seeing things in my peripheral vision... out to 50 feet or so. I made a 'roughed in' way of mounting the 'headlamp only' version solidly. If it performs well then I plan to expend the necessary effort required to make it look more presentable... if not, then I only invested about 15 mins in it. I've been modding another headlamp lately, too, and it has very good 'throw'. Though I would only use one headlamp or the other, most of the time, I can think of circumstances where using them both simultaneously could be a big help.












coors


----------



## cave dave

Obviously it make sense to work with what you have but there is a bicycle version of the EOS that comes with bar and helmet mounts, but does not come with the headlamp strap which is available for extra.

http://www.brightguy.com/products/Princeton_Tec_EOS_BIKE.php


----------



## coors

Thanks for pointing out the bike version! Since I already had my "headlamp only" version modded the way that I'd have modded the "bike/handlebar" version, if I were to buy one, I opted to make the mount myself using available materials. If I don't like how it performs on the handlebar then I can unscrew it and put the headband back on. I'm sure the bike version looks much nicer... but that doesn't matter to me.

coors


----------



## coors

I just just ventured out into the rainy night, to test the EOS as a handlebar light... it didn't work, because the road vibrations made the head tilt down as I rode. Looks like I may have to get the bike version afterall! I'd imagine that it's detents, for tilt adjustment, are much stiffer or that it's a different kind of system altogether. Does anyone have any firsthand experience with the bike version? Does the head want to tilt down from road vibration with that model also?

coors


----------



## cave dave

coors said:


> I just just ventured out into the rainy night, to test the EOS as a handlebar light... it didn't work, because the road vibrations made the head tilt down as I rode. Looks like I may have to get the bike version afterall! I'd imagine that it's detents, for tilt adjustment, are much stiffer or that it's a different kind of system altogether. Does anyone have any firsthand experience with the bike version? Does the head want to tilt down from road vibration with that model also?
> coors


I was worried that might happen with the regular. Try adding velcro to the battery cover and to the tilt plate and using the handle bar bracket for tilt not the detents. You could also use a ziptie to hold it in place or Flipping it upside might help.

PS The bike version has a screw and nut instead of detents so it can be positioned at any angle and tightened down till it doesn't move unintentionally.


----------



## greenLED

Coors, attach it with the swivel part pointing upwards. You may have to adjust the angle by rotating the entire assembly that's on the handlebar, but it sure beats having the light point directly downwards... :green:


----------



## coors

Thank you, Cave Dave and GreenLED, for sharing your ideas with me! I don't have any velcro, but I have a roll of double sided 1.5mm foam tape... so I put a strip on the back of the battery chamber and another on the inside of the headband mount. I removed the waxed paper(?) strip from each side and mashed them together. It was rock solid on my test ride tonight! I am wondering if this doublesided-tape will continue to hold when cold weather arrives, though. I have the beam pointed at the ground about 25-30 feet out and the spill is really nice. I'm no longer worried about seeing people on the bikepath that I've been riding at night, as a cop stopped me on the trail and told me that I'm not allowed to ride the path at night anymore (local ordinance). So, now all of my night riding will have to be on the road... where I'm much more concerned with potholes, rocks, glass, etc.

coors


----------



## Supernam

Hi there,

I have the bike EOS. I was very disappointed to find out that the handlebar clamp was too small in diameter for my handlebars. I have a new Felt Racing road bike. The clamp is about 1" in diameter or 2.75mm. 

The kit also comes with a helmet mount that uses a velcro strap. I have no option but to use that unless I modify the handlebar mount somehow. Nevertheless, I will be tossing in a Seoul + Khatod reflector soon. 

One more gripe is that the flashing mode of the EOS is kind of slow for my liking. Not your typical strobe rate.


----------



## Varroa

Supernam said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I have the bike EOS. I was very disappointed to find out that the handlebar clamp was too small in diameter for my handlebars. I have a new Felt Racing road bike. The clamp is about 1" in diameter or 2.75mm.
> 
> The kit also comes with a helmet mount that uses a velcro strap. I have no option but to use that unless I modify the handlebar mount somehow. Nevertheless, I will be tossing in a Seoul + Khatod reflector soon.
> 
> One more gripe is that the flashing mode of the EOS is kind of slow for my liking. Not your typical strobe rate.


 
PT has a larger diameter handlebar clamp available but you have to buy it from a retailer. I bought one for my oversized handlebars on my MTB.


----------



## greenLED

Supernam said:


> One more gripe is that the flashing mode of the EOS is kind of slow for my liking. Not your typical strobe rate.


Yup, I share your views on this one. I sent PT's CS a note about this a while back. Maybe if enough people pitch in, they'd make a faster blinking rate available.


----------



## jch79

+1 - I wouldn't use it for bicycling because the flashing rate is too slow IMHO. A fast strobe is key to get noticed! 
john


----------



## greenLED

Hey, J, I finally built up the courage... the Eos you gave me is getting Seoul-ed.


----------



## jch79

greenLED said:


> Hey, J, I finally built up the courage... the Eos you gave me is getting Seoul-ed.



Yeee-haw!!! 

Hey, my PT EOS mod was the first time I've EVER soldered (ever!), and without even practicing, I found it extremely easy. :thumbsup:

What I found hard was believing that my soldering iron could heat up to 600°F... and the curious man inside me told me to touch the iron to find out if it truly could get that hot that quickly...... ah, trial by stupidity! :tinfoil:

Good luck Migs - let me know how it went!

john


----------



## greenLED

jch79 said:


> - let me know how it went!


It should be all said and done this next weekend. I'm putting one in my helmet light (and keeping the stock optic), and another one in your headlamp (already has a reflector). I'm keeping my third Eos (hey, you started it!!) with the stock LED, but I'll swap out the optic for a reflector.

I hope you don't mind, but I won't be testing the temperature of my soldering iron. :nana:


----------



## jch79

greenLED said:


> I'm keeping my third Eos (hey, you started it!!)



:laughing: You went from not having any, to having THREE!?!? HA! Glad I could be of service! :devil: 



greenLED said:


> I hope you don't mind, but I won't be testing the temperature of my soldering iron. :nana:



Suit yourself! :nana: :shrug: :wave:


----------



## greenLED

jch79 said:


> :laughing: You went from not having any, to having THREE!?!? HA! Glad I could be of service! :devil:


That's what friends are for! :wave:


----------



## greenLED

coors said:


> I also decided to take some beamshots with all 3 reflector types:
> 
> Stock Optic:
> 
> Khatod reflector:
> 
> Minimag reflector:



Coors, is that Khatod reflector a smooth or stippled? 

Also, what camera settings did you use? I have both smooth and stippled Khatods, as well as IMS17 on hand. I can take pics using your same camera settings so the pics are directly comparable.


----------



## Supernam

Hey guys, 

I got my 17 Khatod stippled reflectors and Seoul USWOH stars from Photonfanatic and played around with various configurations. Here were my findings:

At first I just swapped the emitter and kept the optic holder with the Khatod. I cut a strip of the foam Photonfanatic uses to package the emitters and reflectors in order to center and stabilize the reflector. After assembling it together, I found that the stippled reflector is a little TOO diffused for my liking. I only have a bike version of the EOS right now and as mentioned previously, the headlamp is nearly useless if it cant even put light on the ground 15 feet in front of you. 

I found the stock optic most optimal for Biking combined with the Seoul. 

When I buy a standard EOS, I will swap the emitter and use the Khatod stippled reflector since I use headlamps for hiking, camping, and nighttime fishing only... all closeup usages.

The USWOH seemed a little on the cool side as far as tint. I don't think the USVOI was available which is slightly warmer.


----------



## coors

greenLED said:


> Coors, is that Khatod reflector a smooth or stippled?
> 
> Also, what camera settings did you use? I have both smooth and stippled Khatods, as well as IMS17 on hand. I can take pics using your same camera settings so the pics are directly comparable.


 
I ordered a stippled Khatod reflector, from Cutter... but they sent a smooth/mirrored one to me, instead.
For the indoor beamshot I unknowingly had the camera set to iso400. The camera used was a digital slr. The lens was a 35mm f2 manual focus lens. The camera utilizes a 'four-thirds' size sensor... so the crop factor of 2x effectively renders this lens into a 70mm (equivelant) focal length. The shutter speed used was 1/20th sec. and the lens aperture was set to f5.6. If I were to reshoot this at iso100, I'd get the exact same result by only changing the shutter speed to 1/5th sec.
For the "maglite reflector" beamshot, I actually had to change the lens to a 30mm (my widest lens... 60mm equiv.), because the spill was so wide and I wanted to show that. I also moved the camera/tripod farther away... so I stopped that shot down to f8 and increased the shutter speed to 1/10th sec... which allowed exactly the same amount of light to fall on the sensor as 1/20th f5.6
For the outdoor shots all were shot at iso100, 60seconds, f5.6... with the 35mm lens. If you want to replicate my own results with a point and shoot digital... it's easy, since the depth of field of the small lens/sensor combination is greatly increased, per f-stop. An f-stop of f2.8 has the same depth of field as f8 in a slr (roughly). So if you chose a 70mm focal length equivelant, an aperture of f2.8 and a shutter speed of 15seconds... it would be the equivelant settings as those that I used for my outdoor shots.

coors


----------



## greenLED

Thanks, Coors. I have a digital SLR with full manual mode, so fixing the settings shouldn't be a problem. I don't speak "photo", so your explanation on how to change apertures and exposures to be equivalent to other settings just went over my head. 

I'll go with the 1/20, f5.6, iso400 for starters.


----------



## coors

Supernam said:


> The USWOH seemed a little on the cool side as far as tint. I don't think the USVOI was available which is slightly warmer.


 
Thanks for letting us know how your mod went, Supernam. I appreciated you commenting on the tint of the USWOH. I bought 2x USVOH emitters, but ruined one of them trying to deslder it after soldering it... reversed polarity. Actually, I think that I killed it instantly when I powered it on, like that... then I ripped a leg off when I tried desoldering :shakehead ...but anyways, after I purchased the USVOH emitters I was wondering if the USWOH would have been the better choice. I still haven't used my USVOH emitter, because I put 2x different SSC P4 stars in each of my headlamps. I got these stars from DX, like the original poster did, but I have no idea at all what kind of tint these have. I'll have to put my USVOH emitter on a star and try it out, but I probably wouldn't recognize a cool tint from a warm tint.

coors


----------



## jch79

coors said:


> I probably wouldn't recognize a cool tint from a warm tint.



Just don't hold them up side-by-side on a wall! :duck: (which I can't resist doing)

My USV0H Seouls are noticeably cooler than their less efficient little brother, USV0I. :shrug:

john


----------



## TranquillityBase

Yep...A big difference in tint from the early Fred batch of USVOI's to the USVOH's, almost like they may have been labeled incorrectly from Seoul, or maybe Fred mixed them up:shrug: My USVOI's were a gorgeous vanilla tint, and the USVOH's are ice blue:thinking:


----------



## JackJ

jch79 said:


> +1 - I wouldn't use it for bicycling because the flashing rate is too slow IMHO. A fast strobe is key to get noticed!
> john


 
I realize it's going to be a minority opinion, but I find the flash rate on my EOS to be perfect for cycling. I find most strobes (Fenix, early FluPics) are way too fast. I think a moderate flash rate (2 or 3 Hz) is plenty attention grabbing, without being annoying. I'm not only concerned with annoying motorists, by also myself, when ambient light is low enough for me to see my own strobe.

Jack


----------



## jch79

I hear ya Jack, and your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's! :thumbsup: The PT Aurora has two strobe rates... too bad the EOS doesn't, so it could make us both happy! :laughing:

One other criticism of using the EOS as a bike light is the lack of side visibility - another must-have IMHO. 





john


----------



## greenLED

Absolutely, Jack! But you're almost comparing apples to oranges: blinking is not the same as strobing. I wouldn't use a continuous strobe as bike light.

The Eos blinking rate to about 1.5Hz - a tad faster would be better (2-3Hz like you suggest), without it turning into a strobe frequency. I e-mailed PT about this a while back. Their response was that new bike lights would be forthcoming, but I haven't seen anything new from them, nor I have a clue if they'd take a suggestion from an otherwise random e-mail.


----------



## cave dave

PT has a whole series of bike specific lights. But the EOS and APEX provide more bank for the buck IMHO.

PT switchback


----------



## cave dave

I just modified an EOS bike. Before I took it apart I compared it stock it to my modded reflector EOS and didn't see a huge difference brightness. When I took it apart I found out why, it had a S bin LuxI in it (SXPJ). I think the first EOS mod I did had a Q bin to begin with so I saw a huge jump that time. 

Anyway since I'm going to use this as a helmet light I left the optic in. With a UVOH P4 in it did get brighter and the beam and tint improved.

Anyway this is just to say your mileage may vary.


----------



## Supernam

I think the best benefit from this mod is that you can use a lower level to achieve what you needed before for the same brightness. Most people don't run their headlamps on high anyway while hiking or camping. With the Seoul, I can run on the "low" setting and have enough light while extending runtime. Before, the low setting was too low for nighttime hiking. I not only want to see my feet, but the trail at least 15 feet ahead.


----------



## greenLED

I got to swap an R and a Q bin out of my Eos headlamps. The results are obviously brighter (did a bounce test and all), but nothing really to write home about.  Maybe I'm just desensitized to the "brighter is better" bandwagon or something. 

Yes, the headlamps are now brighter, but I wasn't "wow-ed" by the change. Anyway... I think part of what makes it hard to gauge differences is that the beam patterns are so different between the stock optic, the IMS17 I had in there before, and the new Khatod reflectors.

I used a stippled Khatod reflector in one, and left the stock optic in the other. The stippled reflector gives out one of the nicest, smoothest beams I've ever seen - it's gorgeous! and I'm not much of a wall hunter anymore. In any case, it's perfect for reading. 

I tried a smooth Khatod reflector, but didn't see much of an improvement in beam over the IMS17, so I stuck with the stippled one.

I'll try to take some pics to add to the beamshots posted before.

Now I'm debating whether I should mod my Apex too, or save that emitter and mod something else.


----------



## cave dave

greenLED said:


> Now I'm debating whether I should mod my Apex too, or save that emitter and mod something else.


Of course you should mod the APEX. Are you new here or something? :welcome:
.
.
.
Just kidding,  I wanted to use the new icon.


----------



## greenLED

cave dave said:


> Of course you should mod the APEX. Are you new here or something? :welcome:
> .
> .
> .
> Just kidding,  I wanted to use the new icon.



Thank you for the warm welcome, cave dave. I've been lurking for a while, and only recently started posting. So much too learn. What's the cheapest, brightest, smallest, best light I can buy for $4.78?


Actually, I felt like I should be :banned: for the other day I absolutely needed a light and didn't have one on me... Yeah, that's right, not even a keychain light - nothing, zip, nada, zero, nuh-uh... :sick2:

Banned, I tell ya, :banned:


----------



## jch79

cave dave said:


> Of course you should mod the APEX. Are you new here or something? :welcome:
> .
> .
> .
> Just kidding,  I wanted to use the new icon.



Hey, I designed that icon! And I'm happy to use it in welcoming "greenLED" too! :welcome: :nana:

:tinfoil: john


----------



## mikodude

Hello, I'm a first time modder, long time listener, err, reader. Whatever...

I modded a few things last night, using some cree Q5's. First up was my beloved Eos. I was hoping for a lot from this mod, but I have to say I'm not completely impressed. I use this torch a load, from around the house/shed to strapping it to my helmet for night rides. I like the spot that comes out of this thing, and wanted to keep it that way. I found that I had an RXOH luxeon in there. Installing the Q5 left me with a beam with far less focus with the standard optics (which I wanted to keep). There is more light, but now it's everywhere.

To use the standard optics I also had to cut steps into the optic holder so that it would clear the substrate that the cree is mounted on. I think the beam is not so good, because if you look at the emitter it's sunken in the lense, compared to the luxeon which has a big dome, and the emitter actually stands proud of it's mounting.

All up I'm a bit disappointed. I've now ordered some Seouls (can't help myself!) and judging by their mounting I think they should look a lot better with the stock optics. I shouldn't have got caught up in the lux hype right from the start!

I also modded an old Cateye opticube for bar mount. For some reason there is less light coming out of that, and it's supposed to be running at 1A!

That's a whole other story. I have beam shots which I'll add at some stage.

Moral of the story, if you want to keep the spot with the stock optics, Seouls may be a better option. I'll post more as I go.


----------



## greenLED

Look, another new-comer! Welcome to CPF, mikodude. 

Yup, the focal point on the Cree package is very different from the Seoul emitters. The Seoul emitter is 0.03" lower than the Luxeons, so you can still use the stock Lux optics and/or reflectors with minimal change in beam pattern. The XR-E's are a different story, and are generally a pain to retro-fit into Luxeon optics.

Hey, look at that! I sound like I know what I'm doing. Not bad for a newbie, heh, J? :nana:


----------



## mikodude

Thanks for the welcome!

I wish I'd known about the differences before. Oh well, live and learn. I'm sure I can come up with some cool projects for the crees when paired with suitable optics.


----------



## tibim

> Hello, I'm a first time modder, long time listener, err, reader. Whatever...
> 
> I modded a few things last night, using some cree Q5's. First up was my beloved Eos. I was hoping for a lot from this mod, but I have to say I'm not completely impressed. I use this torch a load, from around the house/shed to strapping it to my helmet for night rides. I like the spot that comes out of this thing, and wanted to keep it that way. I found that I had an RXOH luxeon in there. Installing the Q5 left me with a beam with far less focus with the standard optics (which I wanted to keep). There is more light, but now it's everywhere.
> 
> To use the standard optics I also had to cut steps into the optic holder so that it would clear the substrate that the cree is mounted on. I think the beam is not so good, because if you look at the emitter it's sunken in the lense, compared to the luxeon which has a big dome, and the emitter actually stands proud of it's mounting.
> 
> All up I'm a bit disappointed. I've now ordered some Seouls (can't help myself!) and judging by their mounting I think they should look a lot better with the stock optics. I shouldn't have got caught up in the lux hype right from the start!
> 
> I also modded an old Cateye opticube for bar mount. For some reason there is less light coming out of that, and it's supposed to be running at 1A!
> 
> That's a whole other story. I have beam shots which I'll add at some stage.
> 
> Moral of the story, if you want to keep the spot with the stock optics, Seouls may be a better option. I'll post more as I go.



Indeed you are losing alot of the potential of the Cree LED because you are not using optics or reflectors designed for it. 

Seoul LEDs will yield better results because the radiation pattern is similar to that of the luxeon you're replacing.

I would not try this mod(or any other application) with a cree LED unless I planned to use a reflector specifically designed for it.

-tibim


----------



## greenLED

Hey, miko, check out this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/175166

Cree-reflectors that might fit an Eos with a little bit of resizing off the top and sides. Nothing a little sanding paper can't handle.


----------



## Cuso

greenLED said:


> Hey, miko, check out this thread:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/175166
> 
> Cree-reflectors that might fit an Eos with a little bit of resizing off the top and sides. Nothing a little sanding paper can't handle.


Not bad newbie...not bad:thumbsup: . 


I want to add that I Modded my EOS last night with some Seouls from DX, its brighter, but not a retina scorcher. I put the blame on input voltage. I measured 3.2v, and this stars have an input voltage of 3.7v. IM goin to try some textured kathods for a change. The stock optic is a bit too artifacty for my taste.


----------



## greenLED

Thank you, Cuso. It's nice to be welcomed like that. Like I said, I lurked for a while before joining.

You won't regret using the textured Khatods - the beam is absolutely gorgeous. Of course it hurts throw, but for indoor use, it's superb. Maybe part of the reason I wasn't "wow-ed" by the emitter swap is because of the floody beam. I can see the Seoul is brighter when doing a bounce test, but it's hard to gauge differences in brightness just by looking at the beam pattern and I don't have any fancy gear to make graphs and stuff.


----------



## Supernam

greenLED, do you know a source for USVOI stars? I want something warmer than USWOH's since I typically use headlamps for outdoor stuff. Thanks.


----------



## greenLED

Check PhotonFanatic's sales thread in the CPFM:

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=85330


----------



## jch79

+1 to PhotonFanatic as a source for SSC LED's - Fred's service, shipping and product are all A+

john


----------



## Ivanhoe

I've been reading this thread today and am intrigued enough to try this mod. With all the options/parts out there/ or those that are no longer, Is there a 
recipe with vendors to get this mod done. I know there are lots of options and variations so any info would help. I would like to source two reflectors one smooth and one stippled or I can self stipple. (Is that a word?) plus the proper emitter. I have solder skills, love to tear stuff apart, hope to remember how to put it back together and just like to try new stuff. 

Rod


----------



## greenLED

Ivanhoe, I got 2 Seoul stars and the corresponding Khatod reflectors from PhotonFanatic - the link to his sales thread is a couple of posts before this one. Depending on the type of beam you want (throw vs. flood), you can choose between smooth or stippled reflectors, respectively.

It took me about 30 minutes to do both mods, and I didn't break anything this time around. I usually kill the lights or have something go terribly wrong when I mod.


----------



## Cuso

*Re: PT EOS Seoul & Reflector Mod Writeup Pics...*

OK , received my Fenix reflector (Thanks Qip!!) . The fit is almost perfect, I say almost cuse I had to do a little grinding on the reflector, but it fits like a charm after..take a look at the pics...


The reflector - had to grind down the threads and the bottom lip.









Mounted on the optic holder-notice the perfect fit:naughty:








Beamshot- Im not so good at taking beamshot pics.








The finished product- Love it!!







I'd LIke to thank, Qip for providing the Fenix reflector, Sigman for selling me this awesome headlamp, Northern Lights for providing the Seoul Leds and you guys for inspiring me to do the mod ...Cheers


----------



## jch79

*Re: PT EOS Seoul & Reflector Mod Writeup Pics...*

Wow, nice job, Hector! :thumbsup: GREAT pics too! :twothumbs

Great looking beamshot, and nice modding job! 

:wave: john


----------



## qip

very nice.....the reflector is a very nice flood too i bet :twothumbs


----------



## Ivanhoe

I see the mcr18 reflector is back in stock at the shoppe. Any reason to use this and sand it down or just order the mcr18 "s" which is shorter to begin with? I already have some khatods en route but wanted more options.


----------



## Grox

I just modded my EOS with a USWOH star and a 17mm Khatod stippled reflector. It gave me exactly what I was looking for - a useable floody beam perfect for walking around with.

Thanks for the great pictorial walk through! Without it, I wouldn't have done this mod.


----------



## Ivanhoe

I did almost the exact thing last night as Grox- only difference I am still debating which reflector to keep (the smooth or the stippled) I may need to get another eos !!!


----------



## pec50

For those of you contemplating an EOS purchase and mod, a good deal can be had at the LLBean sale area on the Trailblazer (rebadged OES) for $24.95 with free shipping.


----------



## Ivanhoe

great heads-up pec50!!!:twothumbsjust placed my order!


----------



## xcandrew

chevrofreak said:


> I'd say that anything from 3v to 7v would be acceptable, but at 3v you will probably only get the lower levels running at full power. The PT EOS circuit does very well on a single Li-Ion, such as an 18650.



I ordered a Seoul star from DX, a McR-18 S reflector from the Sandwich Shoppe, bought a soldering iron, etc. and am looking forward to doing my first mod on a light ever. The Luxeon in my Eos is a PX1JW, so I think I might see about a 4X improvement in brighness(?).

While I'm at it, I was thinking that I might as well make an external battery pack or two. Could those of you who use/made external packs explain how you did the mod (maybe with pictures)? I'd like to be able to run the Eos on high for at least two hours, preferrably three hours in the cold (-15C to -5C) for nordic skiing. I was thinking of trying two things: a 4AA case (such as http://tinyurl.com/2r2576 )with NiMH batteries kept (slightly warmer) in a pocket, and a single or double 18650 (wired in parallel like http://tinyurl.com/37bd78 ).

What kind of runtime would a single 18650 give me in the cold? Would the double 18650 be safe?

Would these connectors ( http://tinyurl.com/3xckht ) be adequate? I would use the headlamp in rain and snow, but won't be dunking it underwater.

What is the best way to wire the Eos? I searched the archives and know about using dowel dummy cells, and soldering leads to the battery contacts, but they might not be good if I want to be able to quickly switch to using the internal 3AAAs. Would soldering the leads to the "GND" and "VBAT" on the circuit board, and threading the wires through the front part of the light rather than the battery case side be advisable? (And are those solder blobs next to the GND and VBAT?) I might have to file away bits of the inside of the Eos to make room for the lead near the GND, but it looks like there is enough room under the optic/reflector assembly to run the wires out one side and allow for a strain-relief knot.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## Ivanhoe

I don't have the answers to the battery pack but just wanted to say I just modded my second EOS with the McR18s reflector and everything went well. I did need to wrap the reflector with two layers of electrical tape as it ratteled around a bit w/o it. Easy fix, just trim the tape to about 1/8" wide and wrap twice. Very nice beam. It differs from my previous eos mod but more because of emitter tint than anything else. My second emitter has a much more pleasing (brighter) tint than my first. (both USWOH)


----------



## Supernam

xcandrew said:


> I ordered a Seoul star from DX, a McR-18 S reflector from the Sandwich Shoppe, bought a soldering iron, etc. and am looking forward to doing my first mod on a light ever. The Luxeon in my Eos is a PX1JW, so I think I might see about a 4X improvement in brighness(?).
> 
> While I'm at it, I was thinking that I might as well make an external battery pack or two. Could those of you who use/made external packs explain how you did the mod (maybe with pictures)? I'd like to be able to run the Eos on high for at least two hours, preferrably three hours in the cold (-15C to -5C) for nordic skiing. I was thinking of trying two things: a 4AA case (such as http://tinyurl.com/2r2576 )with NiMH batteries kept (slightly warmer) in a pocket, and a single or double 18650 (wired in parallel like http://tinyurl.com/37bd78 ).
> 
> What kind of runtime would a single 18650 give me in the cold? Would the double 18650 be safe?



If you were using 1000mAh AAA nimh's, that would be 3.6v. An 18650 is 3.7-4.2v while fresh with more than double the capacity. You don't have to worry about too much voltage with this battery, because if you were using AAA alkalines, it would be about 4.5 volts. You'll be safe by a good margin. 2 18650's in parallel should give you 4x's the runtime over nimh's. 

I looked that the solder blobs and can't tell if they lead strait to the battery. Perhaps a voltmeter will tell?


----------



## xcandrew

I kludged together some batteries and paper clips to the solder blobs, and was able to run the light that way, so that might turn out to be a super easy way to wire the Eos. 

My impression in past winters has been that Eos doesn't last more than about 15 to 45 minutes (I know that's a really rough estimate) on high in the cold with 800 or 1000 mAh NiMHs before I notice the light going out of regulation (judged by the brightness of the high dropping noticeably close to the brightness of the medium setting when clicking through). If I understand some of what I read in the archives correctly, the highish Vf of my PX1JW might have something to do with the low regulated run time too. I'll probably try the 4AA pack first. I think that should also give about 4x the run time of 3AAAs, and I won't have to buy a new charger.

Ivanhoe,
Good to hear that the McR18S is working for you. After looking at the dimensions, I figured it would only need a wrap around the outside of some sort.


----------



## Supernam

If you buy your emitters/stars/reflectors from photonfanatic, he packages his stuff with thin foam sheets. I think it's the stuff you use under hardwood floors. You can cut a strip about 1cm wide and just long enough to wrap the outside of the reflector. It centers well because the foam squishes and puts equal pressure around the reflector. Kinda serves as a shock isolator too.


----------



## greenLED

I use thin strips of crafts foam.


----------



## gunga

Earlier in this thread a poster mentioned using a cut up rubber band. I used double sided tape and a cut up rubber band. Worked great!


----------



## Ivanhoe

xcandrew said:


> I kludged together some batteries and paper clips to the solder blobs, and was able to run the light that way, so that might turn out to be a super easy way to wire the Eos.
> 
> My impression in past winters has been that Eos doesn't last more than about 15 to 45 minutes (I know that's a really rough estimate) on high in the cold with 800 or 1000 mAh NiMHs before I notice the light going out of regulation (judged by the brightness of the high dropping noticeably close to the brightness of the medium setting when clicking through). If I understand some of what I read in the archives correctly, the highish Vf of my PX1JW might have something to do with the low regulated run time too. I'll probably try the 4AA pack first. I think that should also give about 4x the run time of 3AAAs, and I won't have to buy a new charger.
> 
> Ivanhoe,
> Good to hear that the McR18S is working for you. After looking at the dimensions, I figured it would only need a wrap around the outside of some sort.


 
Yes, the Mcr18s needs only a slight covering to get it mounted firmly. The Khatod 17mm reflectors require quite a bit more. I used double sided 3m auotmotive adhesive tape on the Khatod with only one side of the adhesive showing. I believe it was 1.5 to 2 mm thick.


----------



## mountainwalker

*Someone to build 2-4 EOS Mods for me*

Hi All,

I'm new to these forums and stumbled on them when trying to find out how to optimize an EOS - one of my fellow members at backpackinglight.com posted this thread on our forum. What a fantastic resource!

Is there anyone here that would be interested in modifying 2-4 EOS headlamps for me - I would purchase the headlamps and parts necessary for the mods, and would be more than willing to pay what you think is a fair for the mods. I'm not afraid of tinkering but prefer to have someone do this who has done this several times already rather than attempt it new. Plus I don't have a lot of time on my hands running a software company and with a hospitalized family member, so I'm more than happy to pay to save some time and have the mod done right.

Please PM or email me if you are interested.

Thanks,

EJ


----------



## gunga

PM sent.


----------



## xcandrew

xcandrew said:


> What is the best way to wire the Eos? I searched the archives and know about using dowel dummy cells, and soldering leads to the battery contacts, but they might not be good if I want to be able to quickly switch to using the internal 3AAAs. Would soldering the leads to the "GND" and "VBAT" on the circuit board, and threading the wires through the front part of the light rather than the battery case side be advisable?



I answered my own question a few days after posting the above.







I picked up the battery holder, connecters, and extensions (all prewired) from a local hobby shop. The connectors are the type used for RC servos.

I drilled two holes for the wires and wired to the front of the PCB as I proposed above. It worked out perfectly and would have been only a 5 minute job if I didn't have to teach myself how to solder beforehand. I'm still waiting for the SSC P4 (didn't realize DX is so slow!), so I haven't sealed up the wire exit points yet, but the wires fit tight. It has worked fine in the rain as is because water tends to run away from wire entry point the way I placed the exit points. The wires are threaded through the headstrap to a connector behind my right ear, giving me the option of using the Eos with internal batteries. The headlamp is 1.0 oz/28 g lighter without the batteries in it, which makes it relatively weightless and more stable when running and jumping around - the headstrap can be a bit looser too. Complete weight with 3 AAs is 6.2 oz/179 g, still very light (2/3rd weight of stock Apex, but much better runtime and hopefully similar brightness after SSC P4...).

Using 3 or 4 AAs, the light is SO much more useful. I can run it on high constantly for three or four ~2-hour workouts or a week's worth of shorter workouts even in the cold (xc skiing season already here!) with alkalines, whereas before I was always worried about conserving the batteries (high used sparingly, light often off completely) so I would be able to finish a single workout with useable light. Using alkalines, I can use 4 cells and suck them dry with high output available to the end. I use a screw hook as a dummy cell when using 3 cells, the better option for rechargeables (still need to purchase... I've only owned AAA rechargeables so far) to avoid overdischarge. It's also cool that I can switch battery types (such as to single or parallel protected 18650s) at will if I want to try that because of the connectors.

The McR-18S reflector (just dropped in, barely rattles... I'll add a wrap of tape around it when I get the P4) also makes the Eos better by a similar magnitude. I no longer have to constantly move my head down to see where I'm stepping, and then up to see where I'm going. The only problem is the lack of light output in low reflective environments, and that should be solved by the SSC P4 when it finally turns up in the mail. When that comes, this Eos should be just about perfect.


----------



## tibim

I'll admit when I wrote this writeup it was partially out of bordem and I had no idea it would become so popular. 

I plan to update the original post when I get some time since the Fenix reflectors(Which worked GREAT) are no longer available. Other people have used some reflectors that I think do a less than perfect job of focusing the LED and have not gotten the same results as I have with the Fenix reflector. 

I think the PhotonFanatic khatod non-stippled reflectors with a rubber band or double sided tape between them and the optic holder are the next best choice but have not tried this personally. I do have one laying around and when I pick up another EOS to mod(since there are STILL no Cree/seoul headlamps available (except the ZL which is all flood)) I will try this out and update the original thread..

These reflectors are available from PhotonFanatic at:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=154195
The one you are looking for is the 17 mm Reflector (plastic) -- KCLP17CR

As someone else posted here is the reflector mounted in the optics holder in this case using a rubber band as a spacer:








As an update the original headlamp I modded is still working great after a summer of use where it impressed me and everyone around every time I lit it up. With cross country skiing season around the corner I look forward to it guiding me down many dark trails. 

Hope everyone else is enjoying theirs as well.

-tibim


----------



## Quickbeam

I just completed this mod with a PhotonFanatic USVOH SSC star and the smooth reflector (with rubber band spacer). Everything went as described **except** my thermal sensor was EPOXIED to the old star! It took an hour of work to remove the star and not destroy the glass sensor. I used an exacto blade that I serrated with a diamond file so it would act as a saw and it still took an hour of working carefully under the slightly lifted star to get it apart.

If it weren't for that one hitch, I could have done the whole thing in less than half an hour.

The USVOH star produces the most gorgeous tint and the headlamp is stunningly bright compared to the original purplish Luxeon I that was in there. 

Thanks to all who posted to this topic with all the helpful hints!


----------



## mountainwalker

*Which better, Seoul H-bin or U-Bin P4?*

Which of the following 2 bulbs I'm comparing for a mod of a Princeton Tec EOS do you think is higher quality/better?

Just trying to figure out which of these two bulbs recommended by modders would be best:

A - H-bin LED's that PhotonFanatic sells

B - Seoul u bin, P4


----------



## gunga

I will answer this one too.

They are the same.

Photon Fanatic sells Seoul P4 U bin, H is Vf (forward voltage).

It gets pretty complicated I have to admit, with all these acronyms and weird names all around.


----------



## gunga

xcandrew said:


> I answered my own question a few days after posting the above.
> 
> 
> I drilled two holes for the wires and wired to the front of the PCB as I proposed above. It worked out perfectly and would have been only a 5 minute job if I didn't have to teach myself how to solder beforehand. I'm still waiting for the SSC P4 (didn't realize DX is so slow!), so I haven't sealed up the wire exit points yet, but the wires fit tight. It has worked fine in the rain as is because water tends to run away from wire entry point the way I placed the exit points. The wires are threaded through the headstrap to a connector behind my right ear, giving me the option of using the Eos with internal batteries. The headlamp is 1.0 oz/28 g lighter without the batteries in it, which makes it relatively weightless and more stable when running and jumping around - the headstrap can be a bit looser too. Complete weight with 3 AAs is 6.2 oz/179 g, still very light (2/3rd weight of stock Apex, but much better runtime and hopefully similar brightness after SSC P4...).
> 
> Using 3 or 4 AAs, the light is SO much more useful. I can run it on high constantly for three or four ~2-hour workouts or a week's worth of shorter workouts even in the cold (xc skiing season already here!) with alkalines, whereas before I was always worried about conserving the batteries (high used sparingly, light often off completely) so I would be able to finish a single workout with useable light. Using alkalines, I can use 4 cells and suck them dry with high output available to the end. I use a screw hook as a dummy cell when using 3 cells, the better option for rechargeables (still need to purchase... I've only owned AAA rechargeables so far) to avoid overdischarge. It's also cool that I can switch battery types (such as to single or parallel protected 18650s) at will if I want to try that because of the connectors.
> .


 
XC Andrew. is tehre space to drill farther back? I may be doing thsi mod but would like to put the wires in a less noticable area.

Also, is it wise to run with 4 batteries? I guess 4.8V is not too bad but it could be a bit much (closer to 6V) with fresh nimh or alkaline. You could easily get a dummy AA for $5 from AW (see Marketplace).

INteresting idea. I may try it myself as I'm planning to do some night XC.

:wave:

BTW, 2 x 18650, likely not a good idea. LI-on should be treated carefully...


----------



## xcandrew

There's really no room to drill farther back unless you want to go through the battery case and give up instant ability to switch to internal batteries, though if you don't care about watertightness, you could wire to dummy batteries and exit out the case like this: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/127639

Well, there might be just enough room to exit out the side next to the solder connection, but you'd have to drill the holes in just the right location, and you wouldn't have much wire slack to work with... it would a hassle for 2 cm less external wire. On the other hand, there is plenty of room inside the housing under the reflector, and the positioning is actually more protective of the wire exit because it's kind of in a hollow under the housing extension.







My drill had dead batteries so I drilled the holes by just spinning the bit with my fingers (about 1 minute each). The solder blobs are already there... it's just a super easy mod.

On my head, the wires run tight against the housing and strap... it's visible, but not flapping in the wind.

It should be a piece of cake to make this completely waterproof... a bit of caulk should do it.

If you go back to post #16 in this thread there's a quote from PT rep saying that the Eos has known to handle 7 volts, so you would probably be safe even with four fresh Li primary cells at about 1.7 volts per cell. I probably won't use 4 NiMH AAs because the Eos will draw the batteries down to about 3.5 volts (<0.9 V per cell) before you lose high regulation, my indicator for switching out or charging batteries, and I've read that it's not good for battery life to overdischarge NiMH to below 0.9 or 1.0 volts. Of course, you could just get a 3AA holder too. For the external battery stuff, I just picked up what was available locally, because shipping would have cost much more than the parts.

For 3 cell use, my "dummy cell" was free, and it works well. I hook the hook end through the spring from underneath, and then compress spring to get the tip in. It's completely secure - it doesn't move unless I move it:






I asked about the 2X18650 (3.6 volt parallel protected example: http://tinyurl.com/37bd78 ) earlier in this thread, but I guess I really don't need to go there. With the batteries off of my head, 3 or 4 AAs really don't weigh enough to matter and they are definitely safer.


----------



## gunga

Sound good XC Andrew.

I'm going to do a similar mod with some parts from batteryspace to get waterprrog connectors on coiled cord etc.

I found a 3 AA holder with cover there, but it's not very tough looking.

ANyone know of any tough, maybe waterproof 3 AA casings that can be used for this application? How about a waterproof case, not too much bigger than a 3 AA holder?


ALso, would it be possible to mount a small, waterproof battery jack on the EOS?

I'm think likely not since it would have to be sealed when not in use...

But I have some other ideas running through my head...


----------



## chris_m

xcandrew said:


> I probably won't use 4 NiMH AAs because the Eos will draw the batteries down to about 3.5 volts (<0.9 V per cell) before you lose high regulation, my indicator for switching out or charging batteries, and I've read that it's not good for battery life to overdischarge NiMH to below 0.9 or 1.0 volts.


I'm normally one to suggest being cautious and not over-discharging NiMH batteries, but in this case you probably would be OK. There isn't actually any problem at all with discharging NiMH *cells* down below 0.9V, or even down to 0V - they're quite happy with this. The problem is with overdischarging *batteries*, and the risk of cell reversal in your weakest cell, which they definitely don't like. In this case, for the light to still be in regulation when cell reversal happens in the weakest cell, the other cells would have to be well over 1.1V, which would only happen if your weakest cell is much worse than the rest and needs tossing anyway. You would need to be fairly alert to the light going out of regulation, as the weakest cell will drop voltage very quickly once the cells are around 1.0V, but provided you are, you shouldn't do any harm.


----------



## xcandrew

gunga said:


> I'm going to do a similar mod with some parts from batteryspace to get waterprrog connectors on coiled cord etc.
> 
> I found a 3 AA holder with cover there, but it's not very tough looking.
> 
> ANyone know of any tough, maybe waterproof 3 AA casings that can be used for this application? How about a waterproof case, not too much bigger than a 3 AA holder?
> 
> 
> ALso, would it be possible to mount a small, waterproof battery jack on the EOS?



Like you, I looked at the connectors and stuff on batteryspace before deciding to go with the RC servo stuff. To me, they seem the right size for the light weight Eos. The small wire is strong enough - I've already dropped the battery or otherwise snagged the wires twice, and the wiring came apart at a connector undamaged. The big 10/20W Silva orienteering/ski lights seem to do fine with non-waterproof Molex or Tamiya type connector, and there's a thread on connectors going on in the bike subforum of transportation lighting(https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/178112 ) that convinced me that the connectors don't need to be waterproof. I just went over to the sink and ran water full blast over one of the connectors and it didn't affect the light at all. The only things that I'm going to seal are the wire entry into the Eos and possibly the backsides of connectors with sikaflex (or similar)as mentioned in another thread in the bike subforum (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2135838).

I also initially thought that I needed the covered battery holder, but now I'm happy with simplicity of the open case. I don't think the batteries would short unless you drop it into a pool of water. With AAs, the I holder I have holds the batteries really tight. I found out last night that it also holds AAAs reasonably tight as well. I can shake the holder without ill effect, so it is very versatile. I keep it tucked into a pair of thin glove liners for extra insulation, but it's not necessary. For my use, I figure it's always going to be reasonably protected in a pocket. I guess you are going for bombproof, and that's fine too.

You might be able to find a short and small enough jack. Open up your Eos and look... the space under the optic holder is your available space. If you do find a small enough jack, you could probably waterproof it with sikaflex on the backside. My jack is the connector behind my ear.


----------



## gunga

Hi xcandrew.

Do you know where to get sikaflex? I'll check out that thread for more info.

I have some ideas on the wiring, casing, rubber seals here and there etc.

If i get the go ahead for the mod (not for me, doing is as a service for now), I'll take some pix and start a new thread. 

I've got some fun ideas I'm itching to try out. Could be a really cool 4 season mod. Highly weatherproof setup (not necessarily totally waterproof tho) and slick.

Not gonna be cheap tho as the parts costs is almost as much as the headlamp cost! In any case, if I proceed, I'll post more details.

Thanks for the tips! Keep em coming!

:twothumbs


----------



## xcandrew

chris_m said:


> I'm normally one to suggest being cautious and not over-discharging NiMH batteries, but in this case you probably would be OK. There isn't actually any problem at all with discharging NiMH *cells* down below 0.9V, or even down to 0V - they're quite happy with this. The problem is with overdischarging *batteries*, and the risk of cell reversal in your weakest cell, which they definitely don't like.



That's good to hear. I already knew that cell reversal was bad, and I know what can cause it. I guess maybe the other stuff that I read wasn't really definitive.


I finally got and installed the P4 on Saturday... Wow, it really is about 4x better than the old P-bin Luxeon (I think I posted the first review of the Eos here back in 2004). Now that I have the P4, I can say that the McR-18S/SSC P4 combination is super. It can put a beam down on the ground even on streetlighted residential roads, has a useful spill width, and is very smooth. There is a well blended transition from hotspot into the wide spill, which I like. The throw looks plenty good for biking and fast downhill xc skiing, so while I can't declare it the optimum blend of throw to spill because I haven't seen the other reflectors for comparison, it is pretty darn good. The McR-18S looks like it was made for the Eos. It fills out the lens opening, and doesn't require any cutting or filing of the optic holder or reflector. Like Ivanhoe said above, it just takes two wraps of electrical tape around the outer rim of the reflector for a perfect fit .

I did trim down a copper penny for a heat sink and used thermal glue to connect it and the NTC thermistor to the back of the star. Anyone have any tests of heat sink effectiveness? I found some old heat sink threads by Ktronik, but I don't think I saw any definitive results. On the runtime graphs of the Eos, the light intensity is higher than the flat regulated intensity for the first 3-5 minutes or so, and it has been speculated that the light intensity drops after 3-5 minutes because the thermistor kicks in. Has anyone with damaged or intentionally removed heat circuits noticed increased lumens?


----------



## PJD

I purchased an SSC U bin modded EOS from Pumaman and received it today. All I can say is that I now understand what all the hype over this particular mod is all about! It's EXACTLY the type of headlamp that I've been looking for...IMHO, the perfect blend of spot and flood. Right now I'm running lithium AAA's in it, but that can get kinda expensive, so I think I'll be going to NiMH's. Quick question...what brand NiMH's do you "EOS Gurus" recommend, and where is the best place to get them? Currently, I don't own or use any NiMH's, and I figured it's about time I jumped on the NiMH band-wagon!

PJD


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## jch79

I use Sanyo Eneloop AAA's when I'm using my EOS intermittedly, as they last longer on a charge, and the Sanyo 1000mAh AAA's when I use it a lot in a short period of time, like a weekend trip.

:thumbsup: john


----------



## Mattebox

I did this mod a couple of months ago and have been testing it in various camping/hiking trips. Here are my build and testing notes along with some beamshots.

First of all, thanks to tibim for starting this thread and all the EOS modders before him and after him who have contributed to the body of knowledge. Since they've helped me, I thought I'd share something back.

Click any photo for a larger version.

*Build Notes

*
I did two mods, one on my EOS that I've had for 3-4 years and a brand new one. I noticed that on the new one, two of the four posts that align the optic holder was really tight (see yellow arrows in photo). On my older EOS, the optic holder came on and off really easily.
I installed a P4 USWOH with stock EOS optic in one headlamp and a P4 USVOH with 17mm stippled Khatod reflector in the other.
The hardest part was prying the star off the temperature sensor. On my older EOS I had to use an x-acto knife. On the newer one, I was able to just tug on the star and pop it off.
For those new to soldering, don't keep the soldering iron on the wire too long or you'll melt the wire insulation.
Another thing you can use to center a 17mm Khatod reflector on the optic holder is tennis racket grip tape.











You can see the temp sensor popped off cleanly from the epoxy (or whatever it is).




I used tennis racket grip tape since I happen to have it lying around.




17mm stippled Khatod reflector.




From left to right: P4-USWOH with stock optic, P4-USVOH with stippled reflector, and stock EOS.

*Testing*

I've used the modded EOS on several night hikes and two car camping trips, one to the Grand Canyon and one to Zion. My conclusions:
The P4 with stock optic is much brighter with a much wider hot spot and an even wider side spill. I really like this combination for hiking the trails. The hot spot is about 8-10 feet wide when projected about 15-20 feet ahead of me. There is a lot of side spill, much more than you can see in the photos. The outermost edges of the side spill transitions very smoothly from no light to light so it doesn't feel like you're looking down a circular beam like on a flashlight or to a certain extent, the stock EOS. I've used this combination to hike up and down very steep, rocky terrain and I felt pretty comfortable and safe.
During one trip, I used the P4 with stock optic around camp and it just totally obliterated my friends' lower powered (5mm LED) headlamps. The hot spot was so ridiculously big and bright it just completely wiped out any beams they were shining if they were anywhere near me .
The P4 with 17mm Khatod stippled reflector projects a very even and wide flood. This is probably what the Zebralight looks like. Anyone with a ZL care to comment on the beamshots? This is perfect for around camp and around the house. The light is very even and smooth, but it definitely doesn't have much throw. Out beyond 20 feet, the light gets too diffused to give you any definition of the objects ahead of you. So it's not so good on the trail if you need to shine some light ahead to scope out where the trail goes.
I noticed the tint becomes slightly more blue when switching from high to med power.
I didn't measure runtimes but I think it's probably less than stock. On high it seems to last maybe 2-3 hours (guessing), but each time I used it, it was pretty cold--often down to freezing. I use AAA Eneloops. Then again, since it's so bright, you could use it on med and get more runtime for about the same amount of light as the stock EOS on high. Although, leaving it on high is way too much fun.
*Beamshots*

All beamshots (except for one) were taken with the camera at the same position as the EOS. The exposure was f/5.6 at 2 sec, ISO 100. The white balance was set to AUTO.

_*Indoor, distance 10 feet:*_






Stock EOS




P4 with stock optic




P4 with stippled reflector




EOS same spot, camera moved back to show how big the flood is.




View of lit room to show the size of the room. You can see the EOS is mounted to the tripod on the right.

*Outdoor, distance 10 feet:*






Stock EOS




P4 with stock optic




P4 with stippled reflector

*Outdoor, distance 20 feet:*




Stock EOS




P4 with stock optic




P4 with stippled reflector

*Conclusion*
Upgrading to P4 is definitely worth it, even if you use the stock optic.
The P4 with stock optic is very good for hiking trails. This is the one I will keep for my hiking/camping trips.
The P4 with stippled reflector is great for close distance, around-the-house type duties. The light is very smooth and very wide. It is at its best at distances less than 5 feet. I will keep this for around the house and in the car.


----------



## jbviau

Nice. Quick question, Mattebox. You mention that the P4 with stock optic isn't your favorite for indoor use, but your beamshots are all with the high setting. On medium or low is the P4 (with optic) still too throwy to use close-up?


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## Mattebox

jbviau said:


> Nice. Quick question, Mattebox. You mention that the P4 with stock optic isn't your favorite for indoor use, but your beamshots are all with the high setting. On medium or low is the P4 (with optic) still too throwy to use close-up?



Actually, the P4 with stock optic works fine for indoor use, even on high (although can you easily turn it down to med or low). It's just the flood gives a more even illumination over a wider area, which many prefer for more close-up work. It's really just a personal preference. But if I had to have only one headlamp, I'd go for a P4 with stock optic because I can also use this for hiking and all you need for the mod is a P4 star. However, if you can, I would order the stippled reflector too just so you can experiment and see for yourself. This is all pretty subjective so it's really only one person's opinion.


----------



## Offroad'Bent

ArisaemaDracontium said:


> I just completed my first two LED light mods installing Seoul P4s in my EOS and Apex (also extended the cable on the Apex). I just wanted to say thanks to everyone on this thread for the good reading. You have been a great help.



Did you use a p4 Star for the EOS, or did you use the same P4 for the Apex and EOS, and just solder the P4 onto the existing star in the EOS?


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## greenLED

Mattebox said:


> *Conclusion*
> Upgrading to P4 is definitely worth it, even if you use the stock optic.
> The P4 with stock optic is very good for hiking trails. This is the one I will keep for my hiking/camping trips.
> The P4 with stippled reflector is great for close distance, around-the-house type duties. The light is very smooth and very wide. It is at its best at distances less than 5 feet. I will keep this for around the house and in the car.



Great write-up and pics! I completely agree with your conclusions. I've been using a modded Eos with stock optic as bike light and it kicks patootie. I can see traffic signs reflecting off from at least 2-3 blocks away.  There is also enough sidespill from the beam. 

I use the Eos I have with the stippled reflector exclusively for indoor use. I might change it for a smooth Khatod reflector if I ever decide to take it camping, though.


----------



## cbubu

Here is my experience :




I like the SSC P4 Lumens and also the reflector beam 
Just depending of the use ;-) please, just feel free to personalize your mod !
Regards,


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## Ivanhoe

great write-ups and beam shots! I really enjoy my 2 modded eoses (is that a word?) :thinking: My Mcr18s just edges out my khatod modded eos. My indoor reading light still falls to my simple river rock self stippled headlamp. It's lighter than the eos and doesn't draw the stink eye from the little woman. :twothumbs


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## xcandrew

I thought that I'd add some beam shots. All shots are for my Eos with the SSC P4 and McR-18S reflector.

Dark neighborhood walkway. It really is difficult to see the ground. (ISO 800, f2.8, 1.5 s)






Eos turned on. The house in the back is about 30 meters away, with the house on the left and the two back yards between me and the house in the back. The trees are aligned with the front yard at the far end of that house. (also ISO 800, f2.8, 1.5 s)






White wall shot from 1 meter. The width of the spill is 1.5 meters, so the angle of the spill is about 75 degrees, which seems just about perfect. There's plenty of width so you don't feel like you are in a narrow tunnel of light, but not so much width that any of it gets wasted (except the upper part to the sky when not indoors or under trees...) . The hotspot is a bit overexposed in the photo. In practice the hotspot isn't quite as distinct, as seen in the real life example above, but the P4 is bright enough to give it useful throw. (ISO 400, f2.8, 1/20 s)





Although the beam is not all flood, I've found that the beam is reasonably comfortable for reading because the beam is smooth and wide. I can't really compare, but my impression is that the brightness on low didn't increase 3x or 4x compared to my old p-bin Luxeon like the high did... and that's not a bad thing. Maybe I like more light for reading than others because the medium setting seems to me to be pretty good for reading the newspaper, and low would be good for a book.


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## cave dave

Mattebox said:


> The P4 with 17mm Khatod stippled reflector projects a very even and wide flood. This is probably what the Zebralight looks like. Anyone with a ZL care to comment on the beamshots?


Actually the stippled reflector does have more light in the center, but it is a very smooth transition. The Zebralight appears to have no center spot at all. Even after using Fastacar diffusion films with most lights there is more hot spot than the Zebralight makes. If the zebra beam looked like the stippled reflector it would be my dream headlamp. But alas it falls short and is really only good for (actually excels at) reading and setting up camp and making dinner as long as there aren't other people around.

I have three EOS and have modded two. I prefer the optic for bike helmet use and the smooth reflector w/ writewright for everything else. The next one will get Fastcar 5 layer diffuser or the textured reflector.


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## Supernam

I have tried the 17 Khatod stippled and smooth reflectors, and I keep swapping back in the stock optic. I like how the optic has a powerful ball of light. It's wide enough that the lack of spill typically associated with optics is not a problem.


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## xcandrew

I thought I'd give an update on my experience with using the external battery mod that I described on page 6, post #158.

I found a weak point in the system using the parts as I described. The wire leads where they exit the battery holder (see photo in post #158) need strain relief because wires get bent around when battery holder is handled. The wires on my holder snapped off after about three weeks of daily use.

I sleeved the wires with heat shrink that fits tightly into the holes in the holder and re-soldered the wires into the original holder, and that seemed adequate. My orginal holder was looking shabby from melted plastic because I had done many re-solderings from trying to route the wires out the sides of holder (where the wire bending problem is worse), so I got a few more holders as seen in the photo below. I sleeved the wires on 4xAAA holder with a few wraps of electrical tape and then used a plastic-dipped wire tie threaded through the holder for additional stiffening at the exit points. On the 4xAA holder (which can hold both AAs and AAAs), I used heat shrink sleeves (had to cut the wires because the connector was pre-attached), and also added a plastic-dipped wire tie for extra protection. I'm satisfied that wires to the holder are well protected now. I might add larger heat shrink to cover the whole wire/wire tie assembly to make it look neater.

The wire entry into headlamp case doesn't appear to be a problem area because the wires are mostly constrained to follow the headlamp strap and thus does not get much back and forth bending. I just added a rubber band tie (not pictured) to keep the wires on headstrap near the headlamp case to keep it that way. If the wires ever fail there, I might consider drilling out the holes a bit bigger to add strain relief sleeving. The wire entry points into the connectors also don't seem to be a problem area.








Some parts sources if you can't find them locally:

Extensions and female leads with servo connectors (need only two of the three wires, but can leave them on for extra strength):
http://www.servocity.com/~servo/html/servo_extensions___leads.html

Battery trays with servo connectors:
http://www.servocity.com/~servo/html/battery_trays.html

AA or AAA battery holders with wire leads, $0.67 to $1.11 each:
http://www.mouser.com/catalog/632/1862.pdf

Overall, I'm happy with my Eos, but I'm impatiently waiting for W-bin P4s to come out... maybe in a year?


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## gunga

Thanks for the updqate XCAndrew. I hope to have my own battery pack mod in the next week or so (just having problems finding the time this weekend).

I have a few ideas that are a bit more rugged, but my setup is not cheap, I think it's around $30+ for parts and more for shipping to me up here in Canada.

I'll post when I've had a chance to get the mod going (will take pix of course).


----------



## lebox97

the output seems to be at least 2x brighter w/ the SSC P4 conversion - me likey! 

but, how is the runtime (on low medium, high) effected (on AAA) by this upgrade compared to stock?


----------



## chris_m

Not done any testing of runtime, but the Vf of the SSC LED was lower than the Vf of the Luxeon it replaced, which should in theory slightly increase runtime.


----------



## gunga

Hey XCAndrew, this is not my final-final version but it is close. 

I will be building a couple more of these since I have been contracted out for a couple mods! 

Not cheap to build, but should be pretty neat n pimpin'. Check it out! This was inspired by you and a Mr. X to be named later.

And yes, that battery pack is a Petzl...


----------



## xcandrew

Hey, that is pretty sweet! I see a connector at the rear of the headband in your photo - did you try putting a jack in the side of the housing? You've got me beat on neatness and sturdiness, which is important if you are modding for other people. How much does it weigh with batteries? What Petzl lamp did that holder come from?

The wires on my newer battery holders are super thin, 26 gauge, I think, and they feel kind of stiff and cheap like they would snap if you look at them funny, even with the measures I took above. I didn't want to feel like I had to baby it constantly, so I decided to heat shrink the whole thing from the holder to the connecter, and it turned out great. I used 3M heat shrink, and it doesn't collapse into damaging bends even if you twist it tightly. Feels like a real cord now - I can yank on it and it feels solid from end to end. I doubled up on the heat shrink at the connector. I will swap out the battery wire for heavier wire when I do a headlamp for my girlfriend.

I also used heat shrink on the last 2 cm or so of all the connecter ends for strain relief and they feel alot more solid now too. The twisted red/black/yellow extender is heavier duty and much more flexible wire than the untwisted red/black/white entender (should be apparent in the picture above, post #182) - you can scrunch it together without feeling like you are doing damage to it, so I would recommend that for those who are going the RC parts route like me.

How do you like the coiled cord? Does it want to spring back if you want to stretch it out to a deeper pocket? I like my extension system, though I'm sure you can do the same with your system. The yellow extension is 24 inches long, which is good enough to reach from the connector behind my ear to an inside jacket pocket or the pocket of a fleece vest that I wear under my jacket if it's really cold out. The lead off of the battery holders are 8 inches long. Most of my jackets don't have inside pockets, so I usually add the 12 inch extension, and route the wires down the inside of my jacket to my front pant pocket (which is why I need the battery wires to be sturdy), or down the inside of my jacket, around the bottom, and back up the outside to the outside jacket hand pocket.


----------



## gunga

Just to answer a few questions:

- The battery holder is from a Petzl Myobelt XP. It's not water proof but it's weather resistant and made for the job.

- The coiled cord is used for bike lights and helmet lights. I don't know how much it weighs but it's a bit heavy. The coil itself is pretty neat but is a bit too strong. I need to pre-stretch it somehow to ease the load on the head from the springy cord. Works fine if the battery is held above the waist. The coil pulls a bit when the battery is at the waist and the cord is run behind the back. Feels better if run up front.

- I couldn't source a good connector that fit into an EOS. The connector on the cord is beind the ear. It's kinda long and a bit clunky, but it's reasonably confortable. Also waterproof and very sturdy.

- The light works just fine with the battery pack removed using standard AAAs.


----------



## ArisaemaDracontium

Offroad'Bent said:


> Did you use a p4 Star for the EOS, or did you use the same P4 for the Apex and EOS, and just solder the P4 onto the existing star in the EOS?



Sorry this is a month late, for some reason I am no longer receiving notifications.

I believe I did what you are describing, new star and all for the EOS and just the emitter for the Apex since it's stuck directly on the heat sink.


----------



## pipspeak

Can someone point a blind man in the direction of a US supplier of the P4 star for this mod? Can't seem to track down photonfanatic and I don't wanna deal with DealExtreme. Thanks.


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## greenLED

Did you search for "threads started by PhotonFanatic" over at the CPF Marketplace?


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## pipspeak

Ah, never knew one could search like that.  Thanks.

So is it the P4 U-bin stars with either the SV0 or SW0 tint that I'm after? Any preference on tint for headlamps? I would think warm white would be better.


----------



## Offroad'Bent

ArisaemaDracontium said:


> Sorry this is a month late, for some reason I am no longer receiving notifications.
> 
> I believe I did what you are describing, new star and all for the EOS and just the emitter for the Apex since it's stuck directly on the heat sink.



Thanks. I had already bought 3 bare SSC emitters from Photonfanatic but no stars, so I took apart my EOS and removed the old emitter from the star. De-soldering was no problem, but removing the epoxied base was a bugger. Still, I got the new one installed just fine, using the stock optic, and the light is now brighter with a wider spot.


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## greenLED

pip, tint is up to personal preference. I know people who swore by the Lux X1 bin but I couldn't stand it's hints of green, for example.


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## jch79

greenLED said:


> I know people who swore by the Lux X1 bin but I couldn't stand it's hints of green, for example.



+1 - :green: to the :sick2: tint of those X1's! :laughing:

For Seoul, I like the V0 tints - they could be a little warmer, but I'm fine with it. :thumbsup:

john


----------



## greenLED

jch79 said:


> For Seoul, I like the V0 tints - they could be a little warmer, but I'm fine with it. :thumbsup:



See? I prefer WO. 

Frankly, it doesn't really matter, your eyes have sort of an "automatic white-balance" and you won't really be able to tell the tints apart unless you had 2 different lights shining one next to each other (or you've done it long enough that you can tell tints apart). In any case, once you go outside, tint variations and the vast majority of beam artifacts become irrelevant.


----------



## maverick

First of all, this is a great write up. I ordered a few Seoul stars from Dealextreme last night for this mod, but then today I stumbled upon a local electronics shop in Hong Kong that sold them as well albeit for a small premium. So being as impatient as I am, I decided to buy a couple so I can try this mod straight away. Completed the mod on my EOS with no problems, but when I turned it on, I was shocked to see almost no difference in brightness between my stock EOS and the modded one. How can this be? Could I have gotten a "fake" seoul? The shop sold the star as an "SSC P4". The star says "SEOUL" on the left and "ZLED" on the right, identical to the photos on dealextreme. The shop owner didn't specify (or know) the bin, although would that make THAT much of a difference? One other thing, there's a rather disgusting greenish donut hole in the middle of the beam pattern. 

Ok anyway, I thought it might just be a one off and decided to go ahead and mod my Petzl Tactikka XP with the second Seoul. Once again, mod went smoothly but same problem including the green donut!! 

I am no LED expert, and would like to ask if I might have bought some fake units or perhaps the wrong model altogether? Don't get me wrong, I never expected this mod to turn my EOS into a H.I.D light, but I can hardly see a difference! If we were talking about incandescent lamps, I probably would've guessed I put a 6V lamp onto a 3V flashlight. Could the gurus out there help me troubleshoot? Thanks.


----------



## Mattebox

Not sure what to say Maverick. Sounds like those are bum emitters. I modded my EOS with PhotoFanatic's P4 which are definitely genuine and to me there is clearly a difference after the mod. The most noticeable thing is the hot spot is much larger, probably more than twice as big. There's also no green donut. 

I also recently ordered some P4's from DealExtreme to do a couple of more mods so I'll report back if there is a difference from PF's emitters.


----------



## maverick

Thanks Mattebox. Well I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for my order from dealextreme.


----------



## mcmc

Thanks for the great info in this thread guys!

I have a slightly different q, but this seemed the best group of ppl to ask. I bought a bunch of headlamps from our favorite EOS seller =) but didn't realize they didn't come with boxes. I'd been planning on modding them and giving them as gifts - for those who might have received some with boxes, any chance I could buy them from you?


----------



## cave dave

They don't come in boxes they come in that form fitting plastic that you have to destroy to open anyways.

EDIT- not all are sealed.


----------



## Mattebox

I bought my EOS from Amazon and it came in this plastic clamshell retail package:







But the package isn't sealed or even stapled so it was simple to open, do the mod and put it right back without anyone knowing anything. Mcmc, I wish I could give you this package, but I was also modding these for gifts. I even added a green sticker under the plastic and next to the PT logo saying "EXCLUSIVE--Modified by Tim--EDITION!" It was pretty slick, if I do say so


----------



## mcmc

Thanks for the heads up!
I was thinking about sendind PT an email and asking nicely for boxes =)


----------



## cave dave

Back in the day PT used to pack their lights in small fleece bags, then they switched to small mesh bags. I guess that was when they were more eco-conscience. I wish more manufactures would pack things in re-usable packaging instead of wasteful amounts of plastic and cardboard.

So anyway my suggestion is find a bunch of small ditty bags and present your friends the lights in the ditty bag.

If you are handy with a sewing machine they are real easy to make!
http://www.uberpest.com/dittybag.html


----------



## lebox97

anybody replace the plastic lens? Would a UCL lens be worth the effort?
:shrug:


----------



## xcandrew

I've thought about it because the plastic lens isn't very clear. I've polished up the lens twice with Flitz polish which is really fine, taking out the small scratches, but not the bigger ones. I'm sure the polishing could be done better, but glass would obviously be better.

It looks like it would be a difficult task to replace the lens without damaging the case. I think the lens is sandwiched between the body of the case and the bezel/contrasting colored insert, and I'm assuming that it's glued in permanently. Maybe someone is willing to try some prying or careful use of a heat gun to see if they can get the lens loose?


----------



## cave dave

*3 Flavor EOS!*

Here are my 3 EOS headlamps. I'm glad they come in different colors so they can be color coded.

Grey: P4 LED, Smooth reflector, writeright very light diffuser; Nice spot, Wide spill, smooth transition, great all purpose beam.
Orange: P4 LED, Optic, Fastcar 10 lyr Heavy Diffuser; narrow width but totally smooth flood, great for reading.
Black EOS Bike: P4 LED, Stock Optic; narrow spill, large hotspot, great for bike helmet.







Beamshots that really don't do them beams justice.
Grey, Orange, Black


----------



## k9dog

OK, here in the UK I can get the EOS for £30, the Seoul P4 240 lumen for £10.

£40 is $79 at current exchange rate (xe.com). Then of course I'd have to do the work (soldering, unsticking the sensor) myself.

Question: would any of you guys (preferably who have done this mod before) be able/ prepared to sell it with delivery to the UK? How much would you charge? Perhaps I could dodge import duty too if marked as engineering sample. Who knows...


----------



## Daniel_sk

k9dog said:


> OK, here in the UK I can get the EOS for £30, the Seoul P4 240 lumen for £10.
> 
> £40 is $79 at current exchange rate (xe.com). Then of course I'd have to do the work (soldering, unsticking the sensor) myself.
> 
> Question: would any of you guys (preferably who have done this mod before) be able/ prepared to sell it with delivery to the UK? How much would you charge? Perhaps I could dodge import duty too if marked as engineering sample. Who knows...


Try to PM Gunga. I think he has some modded EOS for sale, or he could mod one for you. Zfreak on CPFMP is selling black EOS for 36.50$ shipped worlwide.


----------



## k9dog

The sensor - the one that can break - its a thermal sensor for overheating protection right? Before I go ahead and break the thing (90% chance ).


----------



## cave dave

k9dog said:


> The sensor - the one that can break - its a thermal sensor for overheating protection right? Before I go ahead and break the thing (90% chance ).


Correct and many people have broken it and can't tell the difference in function. 

I turn the light on and run it on high for 15 min or so to get the star board nice and hot, before I give a tug on it. The theory being this softens the epoxy holding onto the sensor. Haven't broken one yet.


----------



## Dan_GSR

i just finished mine today
very happy with the results

i used a USVOH Seoul P4 star
and a McR-18 Seoul


----------



## Ducaticorse

_*Oops, my apologies realized the question I'd asked has already been answered!*_


----------



## Ducaticorse

I just finished modding (my first mod of any kind!) two EOS headlamps with a couple nice USVOH P4 stars from Fred/PhotonFanatic. They both turned out super! I'm pleased with the improvements, no question. Fred's emitters have a much more natural tint than the stock Luxeon, probably worth the cost of the mod alone. 

I personally find that the stock optic gives a very nice, usable beam with the Seoul emitter. I did install a smooth 17mm Khatod reflector in one just for laughs, and it does force more light forward, with a bit hotter center spot and a more defined outer "edge" to the beam. I left the smooth reflector in the one light for now, it looks good.

In the other light, I wanted something with a smoother, "floodier" pattern. As I mentioned above, the SSC does provide a pretty smooth beam with the stock optic. I added a bit of diffuser material (waynejitsu's Fellowes WrightRIGHT) to the lens on this light and it provides exactly what I was after - good center brightness, but a super smooth decay of light as you go outward in the pattern. I found that using a penny as a "template" to cut the diffuser material provided an almost perfect size for the EOS's lens.

Thanks for the great thread and the info on the mod. These lights were purchased for my wife and daughter to use in camping and outdoor activities, but the super-smooth version will likely see use from me in around-the-house duty.


----------



## Mayqswet

I've been reading for a few days, with interest, about the EOS mods. Where would be a good place to purchase one already done?

Thanks.


----------



## gunga

PM sent.


----------



## gunga

For fun, just thought I'd post some more pix of the battery pack mod, lots of work, but it turned out well in the end.

Hope you guys enjoy!


----------



## greenLED

Hubba-hubba-hubba!!

Need links to more info, parts list, etc. gunga! :twothumbs


----------



## gunga

Okay, I'll get to it at some point...

Would you rather I start a new thread or just dump it all here?

Gonna be a while before I can get all my info togther tho.


----------



## greenLED

Awesome! 

(I'd personally dump it all here so everything related to modding the Eos is in a single thread.)

Looks really interesting, especially that grommet, and the cable, and the battery, and...


----------



## sfCyclotourist

Mayqswet said:


> I've been reading for a few days, with interest, about the EOS mods. Where would be a good place to purchase one already done?
> 
> Thanks.




Yeah, me too. I'd be interested in one with the stock optic (going to use it as a bike-helmet light). Thanks!


----------



## gunga

He he.

I'd offer, but I no longer have a source of reasonably priced stock EOSes to mod.

It's pricey up here!

:shakehead


----------



## burningrome

Thanks all for this very useful post - came a bit late to the game. Does anyone have a cache or saved page of the original post, as all the photos seem to have disappeared, and I want to try this mod.

thanx


----------



## cave dave

You don't really need pictures. Once you get it open you will see what you need to do. If this isn't the case maybe modding isn't your thing. Read the entire thread. The 1st post isn't the only way to do it.

-Unsolder the red and black wire. 
-Replace Lux star with SSC P4 star.
-Solder Wires back on. (polarity is marked on board)


----------



## mcmc

I plan to make a few stock optic (really like it) SSC modded EOS'es...pm me if interested =)


----------



## burningrome

Thanks, Cavedave.


----------



## TMorita

gunga said:


> For fun, just thought I'd post some more pix of the battery pack mod, lots of work, but it turned out well in the end.
> ...


 
Where did you get the grommet/strain relief?

Toshi


----------



## gunga

grommits were rubber grommits from local electronics shop (local brand, mode electronics I think, pretty generic). Used a zip tie on the wire inside as strain relief.


----------



## xcandrew

Now that I modified a second Eos for my girlfriend, and I thought that I would add a beamshot comparison for the two reflector/color bin combinations that I have.

On the left is the new Eos with the Khatod 17 mm smooth surface reflector and USVOH bin P4, and on the right is my old Eos with McR-18S reflector (orange peel) and U-bin P4 from Deal Extreme (WO color bin? bin not marked on star).






Both reflectors are said to be optimized for the Seoul P4. There are some faint rings in the Khatod beam, while the McR-18S beam is perfectly smooth, but it should be better considering the price difference ($4 for Khatod vs. $18 for McGizmo). A smaller consideration is that the McR-18S also looks better because it fills the lens perfectly, while you can see the smaller diameter, somewhat rough rim of the reflector in the lens with the Khatod. Functionally, both are excellent beams for my uses - mainly running and cross country skiing, and also walking/hiking, biking, night orienteering.

I briefly tried the stock optic with the USVOH in the new Eos, and it made for a wider and more useful beam than the same optic with the Luxeon, but (Khatod) reflector somehow seemed to improve not just the spill, but the overall output noticeably.

Here is a comparison of the the two setups in an outdoor scene. Daylight white balance and exposure was identical at ISO 800, 3 seconds, and F3.25.

McR-18S and U-bin from Deal Extreme(DX)





Khatod 17mm smooth and USVOH





As you can see, the McR-18S/U-bin from DX combo is a lot brighter. I tried to position and aim the two setups the same, but the McR-18S/DX P4 might be aimed a bit more to the left to light up those closer trees better, while the Khatod/USVOH might light up the trees further back to the right of the trail a bit better. The difference in foreground brightness is substantial.

In normal use, the Khatod/USVOH combo is also noticeably dimmer. Voltage drops across the LED for my old (brighter) Eos are 3.15V, 2.90V, and 2.72V for high, medium, and low, respectively, while the voltage drops for the new Eos are 2.96V, 2.77V, and 2.64V. (I have imprecise current measurements for the new Eos/USVOH: about 300 mA high, 90-100 mA medium, 20-30 mA low.) Can anyone explain the differences in voltage drops? Circuitry differences between my old Eos (2004) vs. new Eos (2008), manufacturing variations, or is does it have to do with the Vf of the LED? I kind of remember Ktronik or may someone else concluding that the Eos was voltage, not current regulated, so maybe it's the circuitry.

I have other difference between the two Eoses. The old Eos with the McR-18S/DX P4 is running off of an external pack with 4 AA Eneloops (as detailed previously in this thread) in the beamshots, but the voltage drop across the LED is the same when running 3 internal AAAs. The old Eos also has a coppy penny heat sink. The NTC thermistor is reconnected in both Eoses, but at 15 degree F when the outdoor photos were taken, I don't think it matters.

I kind of see the advantage in color rendering that some people claim for more the more yellowish color, but the on snow and white walls, I notice that the hotspot of the USVOH Eos looks like urine (left side in the following photo), and I can't stop noticing the pee color. I admit that in most other situations it's not bad. I did buy an extra USVOH for the old Eos, but I don't think I'm going to put it in now.


----------



## candlelight001

Looking for someone to put a Seoul in my EOS, please PM me if interested or know who might be. Thx!


----------



## Mark620

tibim said:


> I think the PhotonFanatic khatod non-stippled reflectors with a rubber band or double sided tape between them and the optic holder are the next best choice but have not tried this personally. I do have one laying around and when I pick up another EOS to mod(since there are STILL no Cree/seoul headlamps available (except the ZL which is all flood)) I will try this out and update the original thread..
> 
> As someone else posted here is the reflector mounted in the optics holder in this case using a rubber band as a spacer:



I have been using a O-ring on the front edge of the reflector to keep it from rattling and hold the reflector against the LED.


----------



## tibim

Pictures fixed =)


----------



## Dougie Dukakis

I did the mod myself recently to an EOS bike, but I have to say I'm quite disappointed. I hope you guys can help me troubleshooting: 

I left the stock optic in, as I wanted to have as much throw as possible. But compared to a older cree dropin for my SF C2, (I think it's a Cree P4) it puts out less than half of the brightness. So far I've been running the EOS with new Duracell AAA Rechargeables as well as cheap alkalines from supermarked. I thought of running Lithium AAA primarys but I can't imagine they make such a big difference as I would hope for.

Can you guys give me any info, is it normal that the output is so bad compared to my dropin on the SF?


----------



## cave dave

yes, the EOS doesn't drive the LED very hard. Somwhere between 250mAH to 300 mAh. A P4 is rated to 1000mAh if well heatsinked. A P4 in a PT Apex is much brighter since it is run quite a bit harder.


----------



## Dougie Dukakis

Thanks for the info cave dave! Is there anyway to mod this to get it to 1000mAh?


----------



## cave dave

Dougie Dukakis said:


> Thanks for the info cave dave! Is there anyway to mod this to get it to 1000mAh?



Not really, their is no external heatsink so you would likely fry the LED, and anway 3AAA's wouldn't drive it for long.


----------



## Dougie Dukakis

cave dave said:


> Not really, their is no external heatsink so you would likely fry the LED, and anway 3AAA's wouldn't drive it for long.



I wouldn't care about runtime, 1 hour would be alright with me but I do see the problem with the missing heatsink. Could I just solder in a ~600mAh driver board form DX or similar? If so, would you know where to connect it?


----------



## Tidra

GUNGA,...

very nice mod, I was thinking to do something like this, but use one 18650 or D Li-Ion instead of 3xAA NiMh

Li-Ion =~ 4.2V (4.15V)
3xAA NiMh=~ 4.35V (4.3V)

I think that diference is not too big,...

Cheers,
Iztok


----------



## Dougie Dukakis

Please someone tell me how to get rid of the old driver to run it with a higher mAh rating. Is there maybe just something to bypass, or do I need a new cicuit board? 

I promise I post pics once I'm done and compare runtime! :huh:


----------



## candlelight001

Just did the basic mod, very cool! First of all, thanks to mcmc, mark628, and greenLED in particular for the encouragement and tips. I have 0 electronics and 0 soldering experience and found the mod quite doable. After going back and forth between the khatod reflector and the stock optic, I settled on the optic. I was surprised by how much the stippled reflector robbed the light of throw. With the stock optic I've got wider beam, smoother, but still got some throw. Awesome. What's next?


----------



## cave dave

Dougie Dukakis said:


> Please someone tell me how to get rid of the old driver to run it with a higher mAh rating. Is there maybe just something to bypass, or do I need a new cicuit board?



Dougie, you have asked 3 times and nobody has responded. I suspect nobody following this thread has any idea. It would require a pretty advanced knowledge of Electrical Engineering, reworking all the electronic eternals, and you would still run into thermal problems. Most of us only know enough soldering to swap emitters.


----------



## Tidra

Dougie Dukakis said:


> Please someone tell me how to get rid of the old driver to run it with a higher mAh rating. Is there maybe just something to bypass, or do I need a new cicuit board?
> 
> I promise I post pics once I'm done and compare runtime! :huh:


 
if you look in to the picture of CAVE DAVE, you can see on the left it is VBAT (+) and on the right sight GND (-), now just remove the electronic, put inside what ever driver you want, connect (+) and (-), connect LED, insert batteries,... and after you close the light and fire LED @ 1A, just write us post, what die first, driver or LED,...


----------



## Dougie Dukakis

I feel you. 

However, I have a spare SSC Star lying around, so maybe I'll try out something reversible - if it works reasonably, I'll keep you posted.


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

Dougie_Dukakis -
I won't repeat the caveats others have noted. There would be no point. And who knows, you may well discover something we have overlooked. By the way, The EOS uses a momentary switch. As far as I can tell, all the driver boards at Kiadomain and Dealextreme use a non-momentary switch. This means not only finding a suitable (small) switch, but mounting it as well.
I Have spent hours staring at my modded EOS and seeing if there isn't an acceptable way to bump the output up. So far nothing, except this April's Fool gag:

"Hey, everybody look - EOS modded with Cree Q5 and reflector!"





.
.
.
Okay, just kidding:




I gutted the EOS and placed a Dealextreme 602D Q5 module and reflector inside. No batteries, no switch. But other than that, a sweet mod. Sweet I say.


----------



## Mark620

EvilLithiumMan said:


> I Have spent hours staring at my modded EOS and seeing if there isn't an acceptable way to bump the output up. So far nothing, except this April's Fool gag:
> 
> "Hey, everybody look - EOS modded with Cree Q5 and reflector!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> .
> Okay, just kidding:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gutted the EOS and placed a Dealextreme 602D Q5 module and reflector inside. No batteries, no switch. But other than that, a sweet mod. Sweet I say.



Actually you could do a mod like that with the electronics in place.

NICE spoof tho...


----------



## Mark620

This is not a spoof tho:

http://cryo-laboratory.com/uploader/files/4/DSCF0308.JPG
http://cryo-laboratory.com/uploader/files/4/DSCF0309.JPG
http://cryo-laboratory.com/uploader/files/4/DSCF0310.JPG
http://cryo-laboratory.com/uploader/files/4/DSCF0311.JPG

I need to get the right O-ring to make it right tho...The one I cut & superglued together is not the right size nor is it round...

I did have a Q5 on hand, DE SKU2394 and reflector DE SKU5951.


----------



## Mark620

This is MUCH brighter than my SCC P4 USWOH modified light...


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

Mark620 said:


> This is MUCH brighter than my SCC P4 USWOH modified light...



Superb! Any chance of a beamshot compare with the SSC? Any rough idea of how many lumens it's putting out?


----------



## xcandrew

EvilLithiumMan said:


> Superb! Any chance of a beamshot compare with the SSC? Any rough idea of how many lumens it's putting out?



Ktronik modded an Eos with a P4-bin Cree last year as described in this thread and he has beam shot comparisons (I believe he is exaggerating the lumens/watt):

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/149500

Mark, how does the beam look with that DX reflector? Ktronik's modified IMS20 is not bad though it still has a dark donut around the hotspot. The orange peel texture on the DX reflector looks like it might smooth the beam out - yes? How are you fixing the star and reflector in place? It looks like you are shorting the leads with the reflector, or do you have something in there to space them out? Would it be possible to use the stock optic holder if you file down the threads on the reflector? How does the star board compare in diameter and thickness to the the SSC or stock, or are there no issues there?

I wonder if the Cree is really brighter in general, and if so why? My experience with two SSC P4 U-bins, described in post #229 of this thread, shows considerable variation in brightness - enough to say that one is MUCH brighter than the other - but the color bins and reflectors are different among other things. Could the differences in brightness that you are seeing just within the normal range of variation for the two different emitters?

The SSC P4 U-bin is binned in the 91 to 118.5 lumens range while the Cree Q5 is in the 107 to 114 range, both at 350 mA. The Eos runs at about 300 mA on high (depending on the Vf of the emitter?). The Vf for the SSC (H Vf bin) is 3.00V to 3.25 V, compared to 3.30V to 3.90V for the Crees. It seems to be that the SSC P4 U-bin should be about as bright as the Cree Q5, while being more efficient as well. If I'm missing something, tell me, because I'm still kind of new to this stuff.

Some other related threads with beam shots:

Cree Q5/orange peel reflector - I wonder what reflector this is (a sell thread) 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/178941

Cree with IMS17
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=143202


----------



## Mark620

Yes, I have a plastic washer between the LED and reflector...It is a piece of a bottle that I cut with punches...it is also curved somewhat so it kind of works like a belleville washer. The LED and reflector are held in place by pressure...with the O-ring and the plastic washer. They could be glued.

I am going out of town in a few min....will do some beam shots when I return. Any inexpensive lumen meters out there???


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

Mark620 said:


> Any inexpensive lumen meters out there???



Oh gosh, I didn't intend for you to spend money on a meter. I was thinking you owned other lights (Surefire, Fennix, etc.) and just wanted a rough approximation of how you felt the mod compared to them.


----------



## Mark620

I took the pictures on automatic with no flash on a Fuji S5100 4megapixel from about 7 feet.
All pictures must stand on their own and no comparison between pics can be done - it would be meaningless...

P4 light: SCC P4 USVOH light, 17mm Khatod Smooth Reflector, Vbatt = 4.70
Q5 light: Q5 DE SKU2394 and reflector DE SKU5951, Vbatt = 4.63
Stock : Vbatt = 4.77

Pictures are of lights on high, battery voltages are given for reference 

First up: P4 .VS. Q5
http://cryo-laboratory.com/uploader/files/4/P4VSQ5.JPG

Second: Stock .VS. Q5 
http://cryo-laboratory.com/uploader/files/4/StockVSQ5.JPG


----------



## candlelight001

I just got some new EOS's in to mod and started doing comparisons with the seoul p4 mod that I had done previously. I was bummed to see that it's not much brighter if at all, then the luxeon. 

With the smooth reflector, it's definitely a better beam pattern. But with the stock optic in both the luxeon and the Seoul, the luxeon actually seemed brighter at the hotspot to me. And no gain in throw. The only real difference was that the Seoul had a somewhat bigger hotspot. The Seoul's light always seemed unfocussed after I did the mod...

Did I screw up the mod somehow?

Also, after comparing it to the luxeon and some other lights, I decided I don't really like the tint on the USVOH that much. What else would you all recommend? 

Thanks!


----------



## Mark620

The Human Eye percieves light exponentially not linearly so a change in light output say from 80 lumens to 100 lumens would not be noticeable.

The luxeon and Seoul have different beam patterns so the Seoul with a Luxeon optic is not an exact match.


----------



## candlelight001

What's the point of the mod then, other than beam pattern (which is enough)? I haven't done it, but I bet when I put the reflector over the Lux, it's gonna look just like the Seoul/reflector mod... 

I had read people claim that the Seoul medium was as bright as the Lux high, thus yielding longer runtimes by going w/ medium. Definitely not the case on my mod which is what made me think I did something wrong...


----------



## KrisP

My Seoul V0 was significantly brighter than the stock LED, i'm not sure what's happened in your case.


----------



## EvilLithiumMan

I can vouch for the unimpressivness in modding "today's" EOS with the SSC P4 and I think I know what has happened. Eighteen months ago I modded a pair of EOS's and they were good mods, resulting in a visible increase in brightness. I gave away one of the modded units, keeping one for myself.

Fast forward 18 months; I decide to purchase another EOS. I loaded in the AAA cells and fired up the new, stock EOS. It is clearly as bright, if not slightly brighter, than my modded one with the USVOH P4. The new EOS is fitted with a SW0H Lux. My older EOS's came with RW0H binned Luxeons. I suspect this is why some are not finding the SSC P4 to be a rewarding upgrade.


----------



## cave dave

There is a 20% variation in any given bin for both the Lux and the P4. The newer EOS do seem to be using better bins as well.

If you have a bottom of the R bin Lux and replace with a top bin P4 there will be a noticable improvement. Not so much if you start with a Top bin Lux and have a low performing P4.

Also I think a lot of lightends up in the spill. (perfect for caving) If you still have a Lux model compare it using a ceiling bounce test to get an idea of total output. I think very early on in this thread I said I didn't see a huge improvement in throw just total output.


----------



## mrbubbles

Has anyone modded the EOS with a Cree R2?


----------



## Mark620

mrbubbles said:


> Has anyone modded the EOS with a Cree R2?



Send me an R2 and I will mod one...


----------



## Mayqswet

I recently did a mod using Luxeon K2 Star from LUXEONSTAR.com, rated at 130 lumens @ 700mA (5027-PW14). I was disappointed at the difference. It is a bit more diffuse with less of a hotspot, but basically no difference in light output.

I thought I was getting the newest Luxeon K2 with amazing light output. Any thoughts?

Mayqswet


----------



## dom

I think the driver is only putting out 320ma or something -not enough to drive the K2 well.
Better with a Seoul or Cree.

Cheers
Dom


----------



## pbs357

I did this mod and think it's great! Question - does anyone who's done this mod also have a Zebralight to compare it to? (either H50 or H30)?


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## dom

With a Seoul and stippled Kkatod17mm in the EOS -looks very similar output/beamwidth as the H30.

Very slight spot on the EOS beam.

Cheers
Dom


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## Mattebox

I hope it's okay to mention this, but if anyone is interested in a PT EOS that is already modded with a Seoul SSC-P4, I have a few in the marketplace being sold at cost: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=183431


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## sfCyclotourist

Has anyone attempted to replace the emitter on the original star? Can the Luxeon LED be removed from its star and replaced by an SSC?


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## KrisP

Yeah, the LED can be removed and replaced but replacing the star is much easier than trying to melt the LED off the star and then cooking a new one back on.


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## TheWalkman

Has anyone compared the beams with a new EOS II?

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/211817


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## IanT61

Just went to mod my EOS that I bought off ebay a couple of weeks ago but open it up and got a bit of a surprise. Instead on the luxon I was expecting to find its got a rebel in there.

It came all boxed up and judging from the neat creases in the strap had never been taken out. The box clearly says 25 lumens so I'm slightly puzzled, I can't beleive its an EOS II. Anybody else found a rebel in their EOS and is it still worth modding? I'd give it a try but the u2sv0h I was going to put in there is a bare emitter so I was hoping to be able to re-use the star.


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## cave dave

IanT61 said:


> Just went to mod my EOS that I bought off ebay a couple of weeks ago but open it up and got a bit of a surprise. Instead on the luxon I was expecting to find its got a rebel in there...



I for one would like to see a picture of the inside with a rebel.

Do you have any other lights to compare the brightness to? I doubt its worth the mod. But maybe PT had some under performing rebels and just sold those off as 25lm? Or more likely the light you have is from the transition period before they updated the box.


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## IanT61

cave dave said:


> I for one would like to see a picture of the inside with a rebel.


 
I've not tried to post pictures here before but lets see if this works ...






It doesn't seem that bright. I've modded my APEX but if it was truly putting out 50 Lumens I would expect it to be around the same as the APEX on low because I think the low on the APEX is around the same current ~300mA.


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## cave dave

IanT61 said:


> It doesn't seem that bright. I've modded my APEX but if it was truly putting out 50 Lumens I would expect it to be around the same as the APEX on low because I think the low on the APEX is around the same current ~300mA.



Great pic. My SSC modded EOS on max is very similar to SSC modded APEX on low using a ceiling bounce test. The beam profiles are a bit different so its a bit hard to judge based on looking at the hotspots.


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## IanT61

IanT61 said:


> Anybody else found a rebel in their EOS and is it still worth modding? (NOTE, this was not the EOS II)


 
Answered my own question in the end. Got a U2SVOH from Photon Fanatic and in a ceiling bounce test with my modded APEX the high on the EOS seems the same as the low on the APEX.

Its a bit of a one way mode as the black plastic centering ring needed some surgery to take the P4 and the lens has to have a few millimeters taken off because of the shoulder on the P4 but it was worth it.


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## Tidra

Can someone please explain it to me what is REGULATED stand for on the EOS, because a few days ago I play with my EOS and realized, that the output current continuously dropping with battery input voltage,...

So REGULATED could only mean that it has different brightness levels,…


Thank you,
Iztok


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## xcandrew

It is regulated up to the point that the battery voltage falls below about 3.5 V. Then output falls continuously with input voltage. This link has runtime graphs and links to other runtime graphs:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/107449


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## Tidra

I don’t think that is true, because charts are showing RELATIVE LIGHT INTENSITY and not output current.
 
Newer the less, the naked eye can't see the difference for some time, but this is definitely NOT regulated output current driver.


LP
I.


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## xcandrew

I don't understand your point. I haven't seen how they set up the runtime testing, but I'm sure they are using some kind of instrumentation light meters to record light intensity in a light box, not the naked eye. If light intensity on the graph is staying horizontal for the first 180 to 200 minutes for NiMH and 5 hours+ for lithium, that is what they mean by regulation. The negative sloping part that starts after the horizontal part is not regulated because the batteries are no longer providing enough voltage.

A non-regulated light would not have a horizontal part in a runtime graph. For example:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2748971&postcount=22


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## greenLED

Tidra said:


> I don’t think that is true, because charts are showing RELATIVE LIGHT INTENSITY and not output current.


It's the behavior of the curve we look at to determine regulation, not the output. The Eos is regulated.


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## greenLED

This is what happens when the mod-bug bites and you don't have all the right parts...


I ended up modding my remaining Eos with a Cree Star:






Yeah, I know, my soldering today wasn't stellar... :nana:

Turns out I didn't have a suitable optic in my mod box for Cree emitters... :shakehead OK, actually I do have Cree optics, but all were too tall to fit in the Eos, or if modded, there would've been a large gap around the reflector and the edges of the window.

I did have, however, some old TerraLux Luxeon reflectors for the minimag. In comes the sandpaper, and this is what I ended up with:






...with the added problem that the total optic length went from 13 to 11mm (*left pic:* normal stack height on the left vs. my Cree mod on the right). I grabbed one of those plastic washers that come with CD/DVD stacks and, using an exacto-knife, I cut a washer to size (*right pic:* washer on top of the Cree mod). A glo-ring worked OK, but it was hard to keep in place and neatly positioned around the reflector (a tad of glue might help, but... I didn't have any).









You can (kinda) see the washer here against the light's window 






Because the reflector job didn't yield the most optimum results, the resulting beam is a little on the "interesting" side of things... :green:






However, for outside use, or to get driver's attention while I ride my bike (primary goal here) it's acceptable.


OK, so there you go for 30 minutes of modding and not having the right components. Proves not all mods have to me done in a lathe and using a micrometer.


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## coors

I recently modded a 4x level EOS (Rebel) to UV. I used DealExteme's 1 Watt 395-410nm LED and a 17mm IMS reflector. Very nice beam pattern, in my opinion, with bright spot and good spill. Can see very far with this setup. Would be ideal for night fishing, certain auto repairs and hands-free outdoors exploring for fluorescing minerals, insects, etc. My only concern is how well the stock plastic lens will hold up to the UV light.


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## mosport

Nice that EOS mods are still going strong :thumbsup:

I made a heatsink from a 3/4" copper plumbing connector, easily found at Canadian Tire, Home Depot, Lowes etc for 50 cents. Take a pipe cutter or hacksaw and cut off 2 rings the same height then trim them into C-shaped clips. Cut a short strip of copper sheeting, bend it 90 degrees and use thermal epoxy to attach underneath the star. Apply thermal compound then simply clip into place, everything fits inside the tight EOS package neatly. 










This light still has the glass feedback diode intact but I've never noticed it actually working. After running HI for 30 mins on freshly charged Eneloops the sink gets very warm transferring heat away from the LED, but without any air moving inside the EOS case the cooling ability is ultimately limited. 

Overall I'm happy with the results and feel it's a worthwhile mod, not that it's the end of the world without a heatsink but at this price you really can't go wrong either


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## NutSAK

That's a great idea for the heatsink, and well executed.

I've done several of the P4 mods, and have always epoxied a penny (filed smooth) on the back side of the star. On some of them, I left the diode intact and on some the diode broke so I removed it. I've never noticed that it affected output either way. I'm not sure the drive levels of the EOS are high enough to warrant the use of the diode at all, especially when even a small heatsink is employed.


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## coors

mosport said:


>



Thanks for sharing this, mosport! I'm planning to mod another EOS with a neutral XP-G, when they become available, and I'd like to duplicate your heatsink for that headlamp. Really great idea!


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## superwood1212

tibim said:


> The PT EOS is a reliable and durable headlamp with many great features. However there are a few areas where it can be improved upon, namely the optic and the LED.
> 
> The PT EOS produces a beam of light by channeling the output of the LED through an optic. This is adequate for most users, however the produced beam lacks sidespill. In the case of a headlamp sidespill is especially useful as it allows you to light up a larger area for close up work. By removing the optic in favor of a reflector we are able to produce a nice smooth beam with lots of sidespill while still retaining a good central hotspot.
> 
> The other item we can improve upon is the LED. The PT EOS comes with a Luxeon I LED which produces nice bright output, especially for a headlamp. However this LED is somewhat outdated and more recent LEDs can now produce twice the amount of lumens at the same current draw. This is quite an improvement.
> 
> By modifying these two things we are able to make a great headlamp even better. The modification is not difficult and the results are spectacular; well worth the effort put into it.
> 
> Tools required:
> -Screwdriver
> -Drill with small drill bit
> -Soldering Iron & Solder
> -Scissors
> -Round file
> -Superglue(optional)
> -Penny(optional)
> -Dremel(optional)
> Procedure:
> 
> The first step is gaining access to the circuit board & LED assembly.
> 
> Using a screwdriver, loosen the screw on the back of the headlamp to gain access to the battery compartment. Remove the batteries.
> 
> You will now need to seperate the battery holder from the headlamp housing.
> The battery holder is secured to the housing using two rivets, one on each side. These are visible once you have removed the batteries.
> 
> Using a drill with a small drill bit, drill into each rivet until you are able to pull the battery holder from the headlamp by using your fingers.
> 
> In the following picture I have drilled out the rivets and am seperating the battery holder from the headlamp:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After you have the battery holder removed, you will see that on the other side of it is mounted the circuit board and LED/optic assembly:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The optic and "optic holder" can be removed using only your hands to allow access to the LED:
> 
> The "star" that the LED is mounted on seems to be superglued to the PCB, but I was able to seperate it fairly easily by just pulling up on it with my fingers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now we have access to everything and can begin our modifications.
> 
> To remove the old LED you must de-solder the red and black wires from the + and - contacts on the star. You can also take the easy route and just cut the wires at the star.
> 
> Once the old star is detached, set it aside. It should still be a good and functional LED and you never know if you may use it on a project some day.
> 
> Now take your Seoul LED and solder the red(+) and black(+) wires to the contacts marked + and - respectively on the star. Pay special attention to the two notches on the bottom of the optic holder to assure that you are soldering the wires to the star in such a way that they will align with these notches when the optic holder is installed. If you do not do this correctly the wires will keep the optic holder from being able to be flush with the star.
> 
> Once you have finished it will look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now we are ready to begin installing our new reflector.
> 
> Basically the Fenix reflector will fit perfectly and securely into the stock optic holder with minimal changes. The first modification you need to make for the reflector to drop in is to file or dremel down the vertical ridges inside the optic holder. You will also want to remove the plastic that connects from side to side across the bottom of the optic holder. This will allow the new reflector will come down all the way on top of the LED and focus properly. I used a pair of scissors for this task. Pay special attention here and make sure it is not possible for your reflector to touch the solder blobs on the star, causing it to short. This will only be an issue if your solder blobs are too tall.
> 
> After you have the reflector inside the optic holder you are ready to secure everything together, but there is one more issue to address.
> 
> In stock form the PT EOS has a thermal sensor behind the star that detects when the LED is running too hot and cuts down the current to keep it from overheating. Once you install the Seoul star you are left with a gap between the star and the thermal sensor unless you replace the blob that is on the bottom of the original star.
> Keep in mind the Seoul LED is more efficient and runs much cooler than the Luxeon III in the headlamp originally. I did not attempt to connect the star to the thermal sensor and I have run it for extended periods of time with no ill effects. It is quite possible that with this new cooler-running LED and relatively low current output of the EOS driver(~300ma on high) there is no additional heat management necessary.
> However, it would definitely not cause any harm to use some sort of heat transfer material on the bottom of the new star thus connecting it to the thermal sensor in the same fashion as the stock star. I have also heard of people sanding down and gluing pennies to the back of the star to act as sort of a heatsink, which I would recommend as a simple way to help dissipate some excess heat.
> Really a good share! :twothumbs


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## mosport

Thanks guys!

There's only 1 piece of copper attached underneath the star in that photo and I plan on adding more at 2 and 6 o'clock around the edges. I was surprised how hot the SSC P4 ran at 1 Watt, even with just 1 piece you could feel the heatsink getting hot to the touch after 30 mins on hi (the star was lifted up off the glass diode to eliminate any circuit feedback so the light was at max the entire time).

coors - I'm still using that metal reflector you sold me a while back and it's a really nice combination of spot and sidespill for bike helmet duty, maybe I'll get around to doing the external battery pack mod next...


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## coors

mosport said:


> coors - I'm still using that metal reflector you sold me a while back and it's a really nice combination of spot and sidespill for bike helmet duty, maybe I'll get around to doing the external battery pack mod next...



Hi mosport, I dug out the last two remaining that I have of those reflectors and I put one in the uv-modded EOS. It works better than the IMS reflector, with the DX 1w uv LED. I just found these: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=209642 and would like to try these out with the EOS and this reflector. Earlier in this thread, one fellow used a Fenix reflector with the P4 and his images led me to believe that his reflector may even be better than the ones that "download" sold (the ones we have).


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## Blindasabat

I had previously upgraded my EOS from the stock optic and SWOH Lux to a wider Carclo 15degree and the LED to a Lux3 SV1H for better tint and color while camping. I consider the 15 deg optic the perfect beam for my uses camping. It has a decent amount of throw and a wide, wiiide corona.
Taking the color aspect further a couple of weeks ago I dropped in an SSC High CRI SSR(I think) tint emitter with the same 15 degree optic. The beam is the same, but the color is now even better. Brightness is not a lot better, but I couldn't compare back to back. I can't wait to get a much more efficient XP-G (warm of course!) in there as the SSC high CRI is only S2 bin (60-70L/W). 

Has anyone put a different driver in there? I don't think any normal CPF drivers will work with the switching. All normal (DX, Kai, Shoppe, Fenix, etc) drivers depend on off cycles to change modes, while the EOS uses a signal switch, not a power controlling on/off switch. I'd love to put a low-med-high driver in this. 

I love the remote power stuff. I'll never do it, but I'd like to convert it to single or double AA or 14500.


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## coors

I decided to pull the UV-LED back out and start with the heatsink experimentation. Not wanting to upset the heat-sensor, I cut this simple copper sink (filed penny, 1969) to lay parallel and about 1mm away from it and it's leads. I'm wondering if the EOS would still work if I removed the heat-sensor completely. Anybody know?





This is just the start, as I don't have any SSC U3SVN emitters yet and I'll probably be sweating one to a copper disk, then. After taking the above photo, I put a thin layer of Arctic Silver grease over the sink, pressed the SSC USWOH star onto it, then the holder.

Here's the shot with the Rebel-Optic/SSC P4 USWOH (f2.0_1/25th sec):





Here's the Rebel-optic and Cree XP-E R2 WG (f2.0 1/25th sec):





Here's the Cree XP-G R5 w/ Ledil RS Optic (f2.0 1/20th sec, but farther away)





Here's a shot with the "download" Seoul reflector/SSC P4 USWOH (f2.0_1/25th sec):





The heatsink shown will be modified further by silver-brazing upright sidewalls, like "mosport" has shown. Thanks again, mosport!


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## vtunderground

coors said:


> I'm wondering if the EOS would still work if I removed the heat-sensor completely. Anybody know?



Yes, it will work without the heat sensor (so will the Apex).


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## coors

Thank you, very much! I'll have to redo my heatsink's base, then.


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## candlelight001

I'm looking to put some warm LED's in an EOS or two. Any suggestions for which ones work best, and where to find? Thanks!


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## DeNomad

Just kind of curious if anyone has tried modding one of these things with a XP-G? 

Might need to make a new driver to drive them properly though. I wonder if it would be possible to stick in another circuit board on top of the stock one and somehow boost the current from the stock board to best drive other LED brands. Could use some thin copper clad and cut a circle in the middle so it fits overtop the LED.

Probably need a capacitor to store the required current. Not sure what effect it would have on battery life or fluctuations until the capacitor would be charged... Just thinking outloud really so if this is outlandish please disregard.


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## vtunderground

DeNomad said:


> Just kind of curious if anyone has tried modding one of these things with a XP-G?



It should be very simple, if you get the XP-G on a star PCB. Just unsolder the old star & solder in the new one. I'm guessing that the Rebel optic would work with the XP-G (please tell me if I'm wrong). 

No need to change the driver (even if you could, it's not like you can drive an LED in the Eos very hard, since the light doesn't have an external heatsink).

Of course, you could just wait a couple of weeks for the 70-lumen Eos to be released, maybe it comes with the XP-G???


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## DeNomad

True that. I also emailed brightguy. He is expecting the EOS 70 lumen model in "about 7 days" so we are looking at Feb 17th.


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## greenLED

mosport said:


> ...maybe I'll get around to doing the external battery pack mod next...


I've thought about that... I think with a rubber grommet to seal off the connection, you'd be in business. Attach the cables to a C or D-cell carrier, and you've got light for a loooooooooooooooooong time!


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## coors

I added a beamshot to my post, somewhere up this page, for the Rebel-optic/Cree XP-E R2 WG set. The optic that comes with the EOS-Rebel is deeper than the older Luxeon-optic and it's optimized for focus with the Rebel emitter. The die height of the Cree XP-E/XP-G if not exactly the same as the Rebel is very close, so focus is "perfect" and the modification is as easy as desoldering the Rebel and soldering the leads to the XP-E/XP-G. I still haven't ordered any XP-Gs on 20mm stars, yet, but I have every confidence that they will give amazing output with the stock Rebel-optic.


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## coors

coors said:


> Here's a shot with the "download" Seoul reflector/SSC P4 USWOH (f2.0_1/25th sec):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the shot with the Rebel-Optic/SSC P4 USWOH (f2.0_1/25th sec):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the Rebel-optic and Cree XP-E R2 WG (f2.0 1/25th sec):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the Cree XP-G R5 w/ Ledil RS Optic (f2.0 1/20th sec)



Added Ledil RS Optic/Cree XP-G R5 beamshot.


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## eyeeatingfish

I have a spare Rebel LED and an older PT EOS, I cannot wait to try this. I think I might stick with the optic though and if it turns out too narrow then try a reflector.

I gotta go check my temperature, I think i caught the flashlight modding bug...


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## coors

Another EOS mod, for an older 25-lumen EOS-Tactical. This one entails a cut down and ground to shape McR27 reflector and neutral K2-TFFC star. No chicken head movements to see things clearly with this bright, wide spill. At 1-meter/40" the hotspot measures 12" and the perfectly even luminosity of the spill reaches across 64", from this same distance. The shape of the spill is exactly the shape of the opening, where the filters are held. By opening the filter door fully, on it's hinge, vignetting disappears and you get the full circle of light from the reflector. 
*Update* I removed the filter holder that blocks so much of the beam and retested. With the filter holder removed, the light @40"/1-meter from a wall produces a spill beam of 105". For comparison, a small handheld flashlight with the same emitter and an unmodified McR20 reflector @ 40"/1-meter produces a 48" wide spill beam. This is by far the most satisfying EOS mod that I've tried, to date.


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## jinya1004

has anyone done a XM-L yet?


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## coors

I put an XML T5 neutral into the EOS Tactical, but it had some serious focusing issues with the stock optic, which can be overcome with some effort. I haven't messed around with XML again, yet, as I've been so pleased with the neutral K2-TFFC and modified McR27 reflector.


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## jinya1004

How much of an improvement should I expect from a 70lm model

Do you have anymore more insight on the correct optics I would be using for this?

Thanks


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## robostudent5000

if you're modding a 70 lm Eos, the stock Rebel optic should be somewhat compatible with the XML. i've noticed that using a larger die emitter with a clear to semi-clear TIR designed for smaller die can result in color variation within the beam. so it wouldn't be totally compatible, but the optic would at least fit, i think. you would have to do a small mod of the optic holder as pictured here, and the resulting beam pattern would be wider, but you should be able to use the Rebel optic. 

but unless you want to change of the look of the beam or change the tint, i'd advise against doing the mod. if you use a T6, you'd be going from 70 lm OTF to about 105 lm OTF, and that's not enough to make a big difference. unless you compare side by side, i think you'd have a hard time noticing much of an increase. plus the Rebels in 70 lm Eos are good emitters. they have a nice tint with a decent CRI and have good efficacy at lower currents. i think a lot of the cheaper and easy to procure XML's have low CRI and can have unpleasant tints. unless you can get a really good XML, i think the Rebel is worth keeping.


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## coors

I can verify some of the things that robo has written. i was very underwhelmed with the XML T5's brighness. I thought that it was just because of the grossly misfocused beam, with the EOS Tactical's stock optic, but that may not be the case at all. I got out the XML T5 neutral 20mm star, hooked it up to a 4.2v power source, with a 51ohm resistor, to replicate the relatively low emitter current out of the EOS (I tested the 70-Lumen rebel EOS at 290ma, on high with fresh batteries), and with the emitter pointed toward the white ceiling, above the dining room table, I observed pretty much the same underwhelming brighness, this time with the modified McR-27 reflector. IMO, I too believe that the XML is not the emitter for the EOS. For an easy 30% increase in brightness, from 70-lumens to 91-lumens, you can swap the stock Rebel emitter for the neutral-tint LXML-PWN2. If you desire a wider beam than the stock emitter, I'd look into the Ledil brand of Optics. to see what's available for the emitter that you end up choosing. Optics are more efficient than reflectors, but I still favour reflectors myself, but I can't remember exactly why.


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## coors

I updated the LED in the EOS Tactical that I have with a 5000k, High CRI Luxeon Rebel (from a 4600k, Neutral K2-TFFC.) It's absolutely brilliant and definitely the most satisfying EOS mod that I've tried, yet. The hotspot is rather tight, but the cut down McR-27 reflector gives a very large/huge, bright and evenly bright out to the edge spill with the Rebel emitter that is just perfect, IMO.


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## burningrome

I've got a "virgin" circa 2007 EOS that I was going to do the SSC mod on but never got around to it - i wonder, could I just put something like this XML AWT http://www.dealextreme.com/p/xmlawt-1000-lumen-led-emitter-white-light-bulb-3-0-3-5v-51989. I realize the driver in the EOS can't do 3A but what can it do? Would it be better than the SSC? 
Cheers!
pk


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