# Are Duraloops no more???



## mikekoz (Oct 16, 2009)

I have been looking for these at Target ever since their sale ended a few weeks ago. The stores are slowly getting stock back, but all I have seen of new stock is the Rayovac made models. Has anybody seen new stock of the Sanyo made Duracell LSD's?? I have a rain check for 4 packs, and they do not seem to be around anymore.  I will probably still buy a few packs anyway, but am curious.


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## flatline (Oct 16, 2009)

I've found Duraloops at 3 different Krogers in the Memphis area in the last couple of days. They're price is a bit over $14 for a pack of 4.

If you don't have Krogers in your area, try whatever grocery chain you've got. Maybe you'll get lucky.

--flatline


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## Light Sabre (Oct 16, 2009)

I have seen some at Safeway for ~$15 pkg of 4. You can still find some AAA Duraloops around tho.


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## mikekoz (Oct 16, 2009)

flatline said:


> I've found Duraloops at 3 different Krogers in the Memphis area in the last couple of days. They're price is a bit over $14 for a pack of 4.
> 
> If you don't have Krogers in your area, try whatever grocery chain you've got. Maybe you'll get lucky.
> 
> --flatline


 
Thanks, but those cost more than actual Eneloops. I can get Eneloops at Wolf Camera for 11.99 for a 4 pack. Maybe they are still being made, but the Target stores here are not getting them.


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## Light Sabre (Oct 16, 2009)

I found some of the Duracell Smart Chargers at Safeway for $23 and they come with 2 AA Duraloops (white tops). The chargers work pretty good. Some people compained about the smell, but I only noticed it when I get close to them and when the batteries get warm near end of charge. It dissipates in a couple days.


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## Bones (Oct 17, 2009)

Regrettably, we have no way of knowing whether Duracell is still sourcing their pre-charged cell from both Japan and China.

However, I'm hopeful they've noticed the increasing preference for the re-badged Eneloop, especially on sites like eBay, where more and more vendors are specifically stating their cells are made in Japan, and they'll respond accordingly if they're now sourcing all their pre-charged cells from China.

Meanwhile, it might be prudent to hold off utilizing your rain-check as long as possible. Even if Duracell is no longer sourcing them, there may still be Duraloops in the supply chain. If not, the made in China cells will still be there.


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## dilbert (Oct 17, 2009)

I was at Costco today and they had black top Duracell pre-charged (China) in a pack with a charger, and white top Duraloops (Japan) in a pack with 8 AA and 2 AAA.


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## clintb (Oct 17, 2009)

I recently won an eBay auction for 16 Duracell pre-charged AAA's. All new, in 4 packs. Turned out to be 3 packs of Duraloops, and one pack of Durahybrids. Not too shabby for $14 and change, shipped.


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## e_dogg (Oct 17, 2009)

The Von's (aka Safeway) across the street from my house had a few packs of AA white top Duraloops a couple weeks ago. They were on sale for about $8 per pack so I bought all they had. Their regular price is about $14. Their AAA batteries were the same price but were the black top model (Durahybrids?).

I've also seen the white top Duraloops at CVS also priced at $14 per pack.

They're out there...but if you can find Eneloops for $12 per pack, that's the best price you'll find unless you're lucky and catch a sale like the one I did. I recently hunted high and low for Eneloops and the cost was about $14-15 everywhere I found them.


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## Phantom502 (Oct 17, 2009)

My closest target store still has a few packs of AAA Duraloops but after the big sale a few weeks back they have restocked the AA's with black tops. The charger sets are all packaged with black tops also. The only place I can still find Duraloops is at best buy for around $17 for a 4 pack and CVS for around $14 a 4 pack. I think the higher price is why they are still in stock. Lots of dust on the ones at BestBuy

My guess is Duracell Quit purchasing from Sanyo and contracted with Rayovac for less money and making a bigger profit.


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 17, 2009)

mikekoz said:


> I have a rain check for 4 packs, and they do not seem to be around anymore.


 
This has your name written all over it!

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2366464&postcount=79

and...

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2367496&postcount=80


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## Bones (Oct 17, 2009)

dilbert said:


> I was at Costco today and they had black top Duracell pre-charged (China) in a pack with a charger, and white top Duraloops (Japan) in a pack with 8 AA and 2 AAA.



Presuming they're new to Costco's inventory, the addition of this 10 cell 'Duraloop' bundle could be a promising development towards its continuing availability from Duracell. It would be especially promising if the fact that the bundle contains the re-badged Eneloop in lieu of the hybrid variant was by specific agreement between Costco and Duracell.

In fact, could the inclusion of the re-badged Eneloop instead of the hybrid variant represent a concession from Duracell in consideration of Costco electing to carry the re-badged Eneloop from Duracell in lieu of the real thing?

Additional details such as the model number of the charger and the respective prices of the changer bundle and 10 cell bundle would be appreciated.


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## Black Rose (Oct 17, 2009)

Bones said:


> In fact, could the inclusion of the re-badged Eneloop instead of the hybrid variant represent a concession from Duracell in consideration of Costco electing to carry the re-badged Eneloop from Duracell in lieu of the real thing?
> 
> Additional details such as the model number of the charger and the respective prices of the changer bundle and 10 cell bundle would be appreciated.


I can't recall the price on the charger bundle, but the white top 6xAA 4xAAA Made In Japan Duracell bundle is $24.99 CDN. 

The 6xAA 2xAAA Eneloop bundle in comparison is only $17.99.


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 18, 2009)

dilbert said:


> I was at Costco today and they had... white top Duraloops (Japan) in a pack with 8 AA and 2 AAA.


 
Did you catch the cost of the 8AA/2AAA set?


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## snatiep (Oct 18, 2009)

"Did you catch the cost of the 8AA/2AAA set?" 

$19.99 at my local Costco.


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## mikekoz (Oct 18, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> This has your name written all over it!
> 
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2366464&postcount=79
> 
> ...


 

LOL...Thanks but that is too much trouble to go through! I bought two more packs of actual Eneloops over the weekend, so I am good for now anyway. I will just get the black top ones if they do not get any more in before my rain check expires in Nov. I have used Rayovac LSD's and they work great, so I do not think there a big diff anyway.


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## Greg G (Oct 19, 2009)

snatiep said:


> "Did you catch the cost of the 8AA/2AAA set?"
> 
> $19.99 at my local Costco.



That's good to know. I'll check out my local Costco for them.

I found three 4-packs of Duraloops yesterday at Kroger on sale for 11.xx per package. Bought all three. That will stoke a Fivemega 12AA holder for one of my multi-Cree [email protected] :naughty:


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## SPECTER6 (Oct 19, 2009)

I bought these at my local Costco (Kirkland, WA) yesterday, and they were 18.49. 



Turbo DV8 said:


> Did you catch the cost of the 8AA/2AAA set?


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 20, 2009)

mikekoz said:


> LOL...Thanks but that is too much trouble to go through!


 
Is this better?

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2371607&postcount=82


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## AFAustin (Oct 20, 2009)

I hope I'm misunderstanding those suggestions......

In my experience at least, CPF has always been a place where honor and fair dealing are the norm. That is one of the things I have most enjoyed about it during my time here.

So, like I said, maybe I just misunderstood.


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## CaliColin (Oct 20, 2009)

AFAustin said:


> I hope I'm misunderstanding those suggestions......
> 
> In my experience at least, CPF has always been a place where honor and fair dealing are the norm. That is one of the things I have most enjoyed about it during my time here.
> 
> So, like I said, maybe I just misunderstood.


Even if you didn't misunderstand, which I'm sure you didn't, this is a perfect example of false economy. Isn't anyone's time worth anything anymore?


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 20, 2009)

CaliColin said:


> Even if you didn't misunderstand, which I'm sure you didn't, this is a perfect example of false economy. Isn't anyone's time worth anything anymore?


 
I suppose one person's "false economy" is another person's good deal, at least if one frequents the stores in question regularly anyway.



> I hope I'm misunderstanding those suggestions......
> 
> In my experience at least, CPF has always been a place where honor and fair dealing are the norm.


 
Even though I used the :devil: in my post, I don't see anything in the suggestion which even hints at unethical behavior. The cells are the same sku. Nobody is being cheated. Walgreens is getting the same number of unopened packs back of exact same sku # and refunding the purchase price. One is utilizing one's raincheck at Target and getting exactly what the raincheck says one is for the price agreed. There is nothing inequitable about the transaction. Creative, yes. Unethical, no. Unless one considers paying the cashier to take the time to do his job to be unethical. In that case, I would suggest one is splitting hairs, and usually the same person, upon honest introspection, could almost certainly find better examples of unethical behavior in one's own personal life.


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## e_dogg (Oct 21, 2009)

SPECTER6 said:


> I bought these at my local Costco (Kirkland, WA) yesterday, and they were 18.49.


 
It's a shame that Costco's store stock varies so much by location. I went to the Oxnard, CA store last night and they just had a bunch of regular Duracell alkalines and Energizer Lithiums. The only set of rechargables they had was a Duracell Value Charger pack with black-top batteries.


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 21, 2009)

e_dogg said:


> It's a shame that Costco's store stock varies so much by location.


 
+1

You got me started now! I have a Costco in my town and also one town over. They are getting worse in that they seem to be diverging stock more and more to the point we have to go to both stores just to get all the staples we like which we used to be able to find at a single location. For example, our local store quite carrying the butter they carried for years and replaced it with "Smart Choice" or something, which is about 25% water and no flavor, so we have to make a special trip to the other Costco. You might say just shop at the other Costco, but then there are things they do not carry but the local store does. I don't understand why they can't have uniform offerings. I might be able to grasp regional differences in stock, but why does a location only five miles away have to be so "different?" Pretty aggravating.


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## e_dogg (Oct 22, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> +1
> 
> You got me started now! I have a Costco in my town and also one town over. They are getting worse in that they seem to be diverging stock more and more to the point we have to go to both stores just to get all the staples we like which we used to be able to find at a single location. For example, our local store quite carrying the butter they carried for years and replaced it with "Smart Choice" or something, which is about 25% water and no flavor, so we have to make a special trip to the other Costco. You might say just shop at the other Costco, but then there are things they do not carry but the local store does. I don't understand why they can't have uniform offerings. I might be able to grasp regional differences in stock, but why does a location only five miles away have to be so "different?" Pretty aggravating.


 
I'm in a similar situation. There's one about 8 miles one direction and about 10 miles the other direction. For some reason, I'm in the habit of going to the slightly closer one rather than the one a little further away.

It's the same situation with the Mexican Coke. The one closer has it while the other further away doesn't.

Maybe I should go check the one I normally don't go to...


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## Battery Bum (Oct 22, 2009)

Two pieces of availability info. 1. Near the end of the big Duraloop (and Durahybrid) sale at Target the Dept manager told me they were only getting in black tops which seems to be the experience of others at Targets.
2. One of the managers at the Nashua, NH Costco told me a couple of weeks ago that Eneloops were going to be REPLACED ( read end of supply contract with Sanyo) by a Proctor and Gamble product. No more Eneloops at Costco (according to him) once the current multi packs are gone. So sad.


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## mikekoz (Oct 22, 2009)

Battery Bum said:


> Two pieces of availability info. 1. Near the end of the big Duraloop (and Durahybrid) sale at Target the Dept manager told me they were only getting in black tops which seems to be the experience of others at Targets.
> 2. One of the managers at the Nashua, NH Costco told me a couple of weeks ago that Eneloops were going to be REPLACED ( read end of supply contract with Sanyo) by a Proctor and Gamble product. No more Eneloops at Costco (according to him) once the current multi packs are gone. So sad.


 

All of this information brings up a big question....if these Sanyo cells are all this good, why dont they market them better? Why would Duracell stop having Sanyo make their LSD calls for them? I can think of cost (maybe Sanyo raised the price). I would think they would sell an awful lot more of their batteries marketed under the Duracell name, and want to give them a good price on them though. How come only a handful of major stores sell them? I would bet that Rayovac, Kodak, etc, and other companies that market these batteries blow away Sanyo as far as getting their product sold. Ok, so that was more than one question!!:duh2:


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 22, 2009)

Battery Bum said:


> Near the end of the big Duraloop (and Durahybrid) sale at Target the Dept manager told me they were only getting in black tops...


 
Somewhat impressive that the manager even knew of the "secret" difference! 



Battery Bum said:


> One of the managers at Costco told me a couple of weeks ago that Eneloops were going to be REPLACED... by a Proctor and Gamble product. No more Eneloops at Costco (according to him) once the current multi packs are gone. So sad.


 
So, they are already selling the Duraloop multi-packs now at Costco. Is Duracell a P&G company?


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## Mr Happy (Oct 22, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> Is Duracell a P&G company?


Yup.


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## Black Rose (Oct 22, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> So, they are already selling the Duraloop multi-packs now at Costco.


White top Duraloop (6xAA, 4xAAA) packs have been available at Costco in Canada for about a month now for $24.99.

We also have the latest packaging for the 6xAA 2xAAA Eneloop packs for $17.99.



> Is Duracell a P&G company?


Yes, Duracell is a P&G company.


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## e_dogg (Oct 23, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> So, they are already selling the Duraloop multi-packs now at Costco. Is Duracell a P&G company?


 
I went to the Costco near my place that I normally don't go to. They did not have Duraloop (white top) multi-packs but did have a ton of Durahybrid (black top) multi-packs.

And there was a Duracell Value Charger set which I've seen at the Costco I normally go to.

They also had an Eneloop device that was essentially a power pack for charging other devices. Basically the concept is that you charge up this power pack thing, then use it to charge your cell phone, mp3 player, or other device while you're on the road. There was no price tag for it and they only had about 20 of them left so I can only assume that they're being phased out.


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## Alaric Darconville (Oct 23, 2009)

My local Staples has Duraloops bundled with a 15-minute charger. The overall package says "Made in China" but the (white-topped) cells say "Made in Japan".

I'm a bit wary of a 15-minute charger, but it does have a built-in fan at least.


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 23, 2009)

e_dogg said:


> I went to the Costco near my place that I normally don't go to. They did not have Duraloop (white top) multi-packs but did have a ton of Durahybrid (black top) multi-packs.


 
Well, you beat me before I could post my next concern, which was to say that it might only be a matter of time before the white-top Duraloops at Costco are replaced by the black-tops. So you've confirmed it was only a matter of a very short time indeed! Since none of the Targets seem to be replenishing with white-tops, I'd surmise at this point that once the white-tops are flushed from inventory, they'll be gone for good. Just a guess.


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## mikekoz (Oct 24, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> Well, you beat me before I could post my next concern, which was to say that it might only be a matter of time before the white-top Duraloops at Costco are replaced by the black-tops. So you've confirmed it was only a matter of a very short time indeed! Since none of the Targets seem to be replenishing with white-tops, I'd surmise at this point that once the white-tops are flushed from inventory, they'll be gone for good. Just a guess.


 

Yes, I am betting all white topped batteries you see in stores now is old stock. One would have to contact Duracell to be sure, but I bet they only have one source now for manufacturing of these cells, and that is in China. I actually found a white topped pack yesterday in Target hanging on the wrong peg. The person working in that department looked to see how many they had on hand, and there was 7 in their system, but the other 6 where nowhere to be found! I will say one thing though, I have used Rayovac and Kodak LSD's for the past 1-2 years, and there is nothing wrong with them. All that I have work like the day they were new!


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## kimcheefondue (Oct 27, 2009)

Hi All,
Been lurking and reading this forum.
Thanks for the info

I posted this elsewhere, and may be of interest
I also pose this question to those more knowledgable than I
*Are older White Tops preferred to fresher Black Tops?*
I assume so, but I was horrible at E&M in Physics =)



> I have been nosing around at stock and* I don't think they are making White Top AA Duracells anymore*
> The White tops seem to be old stock, and the Black tops are fresh.
> Of course this could change anytime.
> The oldest stock is was usually found at places with less traffic like Drugstores and Offfice Supply
> ...


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## Link Archer VI (Oct 28, 2009)

kimcheefondue said:


> Hi All,
> Been lurking and reading this forum.
> Thanks for the info
> 
> ...


The white tops are rebranded Eneloops, which many here consider to be the best NiMH you can get, whereas the black tops are rebranded RayOVac Hybrids and are considered to be somewhat inferior.


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## kimcheefondue (Oct 28, 2009)

Link Archer VI said:


> The white tops are rebranded Eneloops, which many here consider to be the best NiMH you can get, whereas the black tops are rebranded RayOVac Hybrids and are considered to be somewhat inferior.


 
Thanks for the response. I actually understood that difference, but I guess wasn't clear with my question.

Are year old White Top Duracells (rebranded Eneloops) preferable to fresher Black Top Duracells (rebranded Rayovac)?
I assume that part of the reason White Tops are loved is because of longevity. Does sitting in a warehouse degrade that longevity significantly? 
I could see the fact that it is just sitting there, and not going through charger disperse cycles wouldn't really be an issue, but I don't know.


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## Cartman (Oct 29, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> Did you catch the cost of the 8AA/2AAA set?



At the Costco is SF, I bought three of the 8AA/2AA, at $18


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## Link Archer VI (Oct 29, 2009)

kimcheefondue said:


> Thanks for the response. I actually understood that difference, but I guess wasn't clear with my question.
> 
> Are year old White Top Duracells (rebranded Eneloops) preferable to fresher Black Top Duracells (rebranded Rayovac)?
> I assume that part of the reason White Tops are loved is because of longevity. Does sitting in a warehouse degrade that longevity significantly?
> I could see the fact that it is just sitting there, and not going through charger disperse cycles wouldn't really be an issue, but I don't know.


They might need a few cycles to bring them up to top performance if they've been sitting around for years, but after that they should be fine. There were people here have bought Eneloops that were made 2-3 years before purchase but still worked fine. Personally, I would just go with the Duraloops, unless they were really old (5+ years) and were paying full price from them. Actually, I probably wouldn't pay full price for any rechargeables that old...


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## Rowrbazzle (Oct 29, 2009)

May not just be Duraloops disappearing. I was at the Frys in Wilsonville OR last weekend. They almost never have Eneloops, but used to have Sonyloops, Eneloops rebranded as Sony CycleEnergy. Last weekend the CycleEnergy cells were all clearly RayoVacs, except for a couple that were in with a 2-cell charger. 

Now I don't pretend to have a head for business, but when you've got a product that good, how can you fail so miserably at marketing it? :shrug:


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 30, 2009)

Rowrbazzle said:


> *May not just be Duraloops disappearing.* I was at the Frys in Wilsonville OR last weekend. They almost never have Eneloops, but used to have Sonyloops, Eneloops rebranded as Sony CycleEnergy. Last weekend the CycleEnergy cells were all clearly RayoVacs ... _*when you've got a product that good, how can you fail so miserably at marketing it?*_ :shrug:


 
One word, possibly, which has recently entered into the Eneloop equation?

*Panasonic?*


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Oct 30, 2009)

Let me just say this.

I have the vast majority of my LSD NimH in Rayovac Hybrid. Most if not every last one are made in China.

Next up are Kodak. Also most if not all China.

Four each of Eneloop and Duraloop made in Japan with white tops.

I use 6 each Rayovac to drive ROP and Magcharger bulbs.

I use two at a time in Keyboard, Mouse, Camera, Garmin GPS etc.

I can find NOTHING to recommend that only Japan cells are worth buying.

In no case have the China cells let me down.

Do I wish I could buy a dozen or more Eneloop? Sure. But heck, I wish I could buy a dozen more Hybrids!


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## Black Rose (Oct 30, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> One word, possibly, which has recently entered into the Eneloop equation?
> 
> *Panasonic?*


Eneloops were poorly marketed well before Panasonic bought Sanyo.

Panasonic (Matsushita) co-developed (with Yuasa-Delta) the technology that is used in the Rayovac Hybrid and Panasonic R2.

If nothing else, Panasonic really has their fingers in rechargeable battery technology.


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## Turbo DV8 (Oct 30, 2009)

Black Rose said:


> Eneloops were poorly marketed well before Panasonic bought Sanyo.


 
I guess I emphasized the wrong point. What I was saying was, could the sale to Panasonic be responsible for the apparent disappearance of Eneloop rebrands?


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## Mr Happy (Oct 30, 2009)

I always got the impression that eneloops were marketed strongly in the local Japanese and near Asian markets, and that Sanyo really have not tried very hard in the US and European markets. It's as if they don't have enough product to sell and therefore really don't need to push. Or it's because the price is too high in a price sensitive market.

Whatever the case, you really don't have to look hard to find eneloops if you're in Japan. They are all over the place.


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## kimck99 (Oct 30, 2009)

Cartman said:


> At the Costco is SF, I bought three of the 8AA/2AA, at $18


 
Just wanted to chime in that the Costco at Issaquah, WA had the 8AA/2AAA Duracell "Pre-Charged" pack with the WHITE top in stock for $18.49. They also had the 4AA/4AAA with charger as well but those had the black tops.

There were pretty good number of packs left.

Hope that helps.


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## firefly101 (Oct 31, 2009)

Yes but my Local Costco had the same but they were the Chinese Versions. I checked the 64 batteries I just bought that were duraloops and ALL of them were 7 or 8 on the serial number. I assume for 2007 and 2008. which means Duraloops are old stock for sure.

I think that is a good point if that buyout happened around the time they switched could be it, or maybe Duracell just wanted to make more money by getting a cheaper inferior cell and charging the SAME price for it? Personally I think its all about more corporate profits.


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## mikekoz (Nov 1, 2009)

kimcheefondue said:


> Hi All,
> Been lurking and reading this forum.
> Thanks for the info
> 
> ...


 
I have 6 packs of the white topped cells, and the date codes all start with 9. Duracell may have stopped having Sanyo make these batteries for them, but maybe a little more recently.


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## mikekoz (Nov 1, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Let me just say this.
> 
> I have the vast majority of my LSD NimH in Rayovac Hybrid. Most if not every last one are made in China.
> 
> ...


 


I will agree with you. I have some Rayovacs that I have been using for almost two years, and they are great. I have also been using Kodaks and they work just as well. I do think the Sanyo made Duracells are better batteries, and I stocked up on them when Target had them at $6.45 a pack, but I do not think they are THAT much better. I certainly would not pay $15.99 a pack for them (or any 4 pack of NIMH batteries, including Eneloops) because I think there is only a slight difference in quality. I would not pay more than 12.99. I would say there is probably hardly any difference when they are being used in one and two cell lights. I do have Eneloops in my TK40, and I think a light like that would be a good example of how the differences in quality may show between the two, but the TK40 is a unique light.


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## TONY M (Nov 1, 2009)

I haven't read the entire contents of this thread here but I have just purchased my first Duraloop AAs (2x4pack) at a local store for just £6 each which is about $10USD. This is cheaper than Eneloops can be found over here and is about the same price as the "old" Uniross Hybrios (also confirmed Eneloops) that can no longer be found here. The newer Uniross Hybrios are different and are of poorer quality I have found.

By the looks of it these are by all means Eneloop copies with the white tops we all have come to love.:twothumbs

I will over time conduct some capacity tests with my C9000 and post my findings.


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 1, 2009)

mikekoz said:


> I have 6 packs of the white topped cells, and the date codes all start with 9. Duracell may have stopped having Sanyo make these batteries for them, but maybe a little more recently.


 


> By the looks of it these are by all means Eneloop copies with the white tops we all have come to love.:twothumbs


 
I could just see the Chinese quietly start using the white discs on the tops of their cells! :devil: How would that be for creating mass confusion for us, until we caught on? Then we'll have to pull out the magnifying glasses to read country of origin.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 1, 2009)

That reminds me. SOMEWHERE around here are 4 Uniross Hybrios..... couldn't tell ya where they were made cause I don't know where they are!

EDIT: Found one Uniross Hybrio White Top made in CHINA.

EDIT AGAIN: At least two of my Rayovac Hybrids are white top made in China.

EDIT ONE MORE TIME: My fairly OLD Rayovac 1800s were made in China too.


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## firefly101 (Nov 1, 2009)

MikeKoz,

I think the reason yours starts with 9 is because it was early in 2009 that the stopped making them. Probably until they had full production coming in from China.

So you have a collectors Item Duraloops that are 2009, the last year they were made. lol


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## TONY M (Nov 3, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> That reminds me. SOMEWHERE around here are 4 Uniross Hybrios..... couldn't tell ya where they were made cause I don't know where they are!
> 
> EDIT: Found one Uniross Hybrio White Top made in CHINA.
> 
> ...


Just checked my Uniross Hybrios I bought last year and they are made in China too but are indeed rebadged Eneloops. I re-ordered them as they were a good price but got the new inferior Hybrios sent to me.:scowl: The new ones are made in China too and also have a white top and 4 vents but with a round shiny nipple.


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## firefly101 (Nov 3, 2009)

THats why I looked around Ebay before buying. I did find a seller selling them for 13.95 for 8 of them and he specified they were from japan. Duraloops.

I wont buy chinese unless I have to, I bet you anything they dont last as long over long term, you just cant trust anything coming from there. They havent learned to build quality yet, they are still into money by any means necessary.


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## ryball (Nov 3, 2009)

I found a ton of the white top Duraloops at the CVS near me, but they wanted $15 for a 4 pack.


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## firefly101 (Nov 3, 2009)

Thats the problem unless on sale most are overprised. The reason I think you find them on Ebay is because they are old stock and stores cant be selling 3 year old batteries. Even if rechargeable since they are considered precharged. This is the time to buy duraloops as it seems alot of the stores are replacing with the chinese version.


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## Hondo (Nov 4, 2009)

My local Target had all white top AAA's, black top AA's. They are on sale right now for $9.99 plus a $1 off sticker on the packages. Interesting thing is, they did not have those sticker packages recently when the $6.48 sale was on, so it would seem that they got more white-top stock in the AAA size. Unless, of course, Duracell has the store personel posting the coupon stickers on the packages in current inventory, which I doubt.


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 5, 2009)

I think they probably just have a lot more AAA back-stock to unload, since it is by far less in demand than AA. Of the twelve or so AAA white top I checked out recently, the majority are date coded mid-2007, with one from early 2008, but that's as new as they got.


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## extas (Nov 9, 2009)

I just purchased a Costco white top 2xAAA 8xAA Pre-Charged Duracell pack, Manufacturers code: 9J03J1. They had a full pallet @ the Fremont, CA store as of 11/08/09. The package and the batteries are listed as Made in Japan. So if I read the chart correctly, this means that these cells were made on 10/03/2009 first run of the day. I saw no Eneloop multipacks. I'm guessing that Duracell has sucked up all of the eneloop production to supply Costco for Xmas 2009.


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## TheInvader (Nov 9, 2009)

My Kroger just got a HUGE shipment of Durarayovacs, but I picked thru the display and saw 5 packs of duraloops. I buy a pack everytime I'm in Kroger ($13 for a 4 pack.)


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## extas (Nov 9, 2009)

$13 for 4?? ack!! that a lot. the costco deal is way better.. $18 -$19(er probably $18.49) for 8AAs and 2AAAs. thats $1.85 per batt.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 9, 2009)

Try Target for the write top variety. Got my AAA's there.

Bill


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 11, 2009)

The Walgreens in Cleveland, TX has 3 packs of Japan Duraloops.

They still have them because they want $13.99 per pack.

I'd have probably gotten them anyway had I the means.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 11, 2009)

Yesterday I bought some white top Duraloops at Costco. An 8 pack of AA + 2 AAA's. Price, $18.99.

Bill


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## animefans (Nov 12, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> Yesterday I bought some white top Duraloops at Costco. An 8 pack of AA + 2 AAA's. Price, $18.99.
> 
> Bill



Starting today, these battery pack has a $5 off coupon
See if you can get a price adjustment


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 12, 2009)

animefans said:


> Starting today, these battery pack has a $5 off coupon
> See if you can get a price adjustment



Thanks, I will give it a try.

Bill


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 12, 2009)

The Duraloops I bought today at Costco are June-August 2009 manufacture date. Good news for sure! Also noticed, compared to 2008 and earlier Duraloops, the new cells have a different wrapper. Splashier graphics, clearer printing, and they now say "Pre Charged" in addition to "Rechargeable" in easier-to-notice print. Also, the wrapper extends less into the ends of the cells, and the seam overlap is less bulky.


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## MarioJP (Nov 13, 2009)

so no more the white top duraloops?


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 14, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> so no more the white top duraloops?



See post 65, this thread.

Bill


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 14, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> so no more the white top duraloops?


 
The cells for which I noted the new wrapper changes in post #68 are still white tops. New wrappers, manufactured only two months ago... it looks like the Duraloop will be around a bit longer after all!:twothumbs


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## MarioJP (Nov 14, 2009)

good because I just did a capacity test on one of my white top duraloops.

all 4 cells pushed 2100mah. Weird how its rated 2000mah but i get 2100mah??. Anyways these are very reliable batteries. And no these new sets wont be anywhere near that 15 min charger. In fact I might recycle that charger or take it apart lol.


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## rje58 (Nov 14, 2009)

I found quite a few 4-packs of white top DuraLoops "Made in Japan" at my local Wal-Mart (North Carolina) earlier today... only bought one 4-pack because they are getting $12.97 a pop...

Went to the local Target but all they have in AA is black top Chinese. They did have some AAA white top Duraloops for $9.99 that I wish I would have picked up, if they still have them on Monday I will get at least one 4-pack, maybe two.


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## LED_Thrift (Nov 14, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> ... And no these new sets wont be anywhere near that 15 min charger. In fact I might recycle that charger or take it apart lol.


Good idea. I just got an 8AA + 2 AAA pack from Costco today for $18.50 - $5 coupon. They are white tops and say Made in Japan on the cells. Also on the cells are "Standard charge 200mA for 16hrs" - ouch. I'm not into rushing things but that charging rate seems a bit... _t o o_ .._s l o w. _

BTW the date code on the package was 9I25J3.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 14, 2009)

All I know is that I could use 12-16 more LSD NimH. If I happen to get Japan Duraloops great! If I happen to get China Kodak that'll work too.

I do know that when I see Duraloops at stores they are too dang expensive!!!


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 14, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> good because I just did a capacity test on one of my white top duraloops.
> 
> all 4 cells pushed 2100mah. Weird how its rated 2000mah but i get 2100mah??.


 
The August 2009 Duraloops I just bought and the 2007 and 2008 Duraloops I recently bought both only rendered 2000 -2020 mAh after three TEST cycles on the BC-900, which tends to be optimistic. I was hoping these August 2009 date cells would push closer towards 2100-2150 like my new Eneloops did on the BC-900 a couple years ago. No biggie, though. The cell balance out of the package was impecable, as always, and that's the indicator of healthy cells.


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## MarioJP (Nov 14, 2009)

I would do couple of cycles because that exactly what happened when i got these duraloops. My both sets are white top and made in Japan "standard charge rate 200ma". I want to use these cells and not wait for a long time. No thanks to that.


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## brjones (Nov 14, 2009)

No one has yet mentioned the charger model or current -- care to share? I cannot identify anywhere on the internet a photo of this Duracell package, or even the charger included in this package.

It sounds like "200ma for 8 hours" is Sanyo's recommended charge scheme, not indicative of the charger itself. Where is that written? My eneloops don't have that wording on them.

It looks like the charger included with Costco item 437274 is neither a quick nor extremely slow charger. It does appear to be smart (from a friend reading the labeling to me). It lists charging time of a 2650mah AA battery as 6 hours, and a 1700mah as 5 hours. Funny, since the batts included are 2000mah. Appears you must charge 2 or 4 at once. Friend says it appears similar to the eneloop 8+2 package charger. 

Personally, I want a smart charger which is as low of an amperage as possible. I can wait overnight. The eneloop charger seemed very slow, and smart, but it was dual-channel only. 

Amazon sells ASIN B001IF21OO, which has a 'mini charger'--only room for 2, but the reviewer NLee says it can charge single cells. However, at $25/free shipping on Amazon, vs $15 after coupon at Costco, the decision is a little difficult. The batteries included are otherwise identical.

BTW my friend said only black-topped batteries were present. Batteries-only package (8AA 2AAA) said 'made in japan' but that appears to be false advertising. Probably using up old packaging stock. Kit with charger says made in China.

My friend said there was no current rating visible on the packaging or visible on the charger. If the packaging has a table which says it takes 6 hours to charge a 2650mah battery, 2650maH/6H = 442mA. 1700/5 = 350mA. So, the charger delivers at least 442mA, and obviously more since batteries are not 100% efficient at recharging. Is my formula correct? If so, that sounds pretty high for someone looking for an extreme low current smart charger, but more of a 'middle of the road' charger with slightly higher mass appeal. 

I didn't feel 2 different brands of batteries get even warm in the Eneloop 2-channel charger. I was very impressed with that, since my old Radio Shack charger makes the batteries HOT.


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## LED_Thrift (Nov 14, 2009)

There is no charger included in the ten pack of cells I got at Costco. Ten cells for $13.50 after coupon. They still have the ten pack of Eneloop cells with charger for $18.50.

CPF'er Silverfox, who knows as much about batteries as anyone AFAIK, tested Eneloops and IIRC recommended a two hour charge time [one-half C charge rate]. I think the 200mA charge rate printed on the cells is just a "cover our @sses" statement. I don't think you can easily find a charger that slow from any of the battery manufacturers.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 14, 2009)

"Standard charge 200 mA for 16 hours" is not the recommended charging method, it is just the standard charging protocol for deriving the capacity of 2000 mAh. You can use that charge method, but you are not required to. Most times it is better to charge at a higher rate up to 2000 mA and use a smart charger with controlled termination.

It's like when you buy a car, the MPG is quoted based on a standard test cycle. This is so that when different manufacturers quote the MPG you can compare one car with another. So it is with batteries. When different manufacturers quote the mAh capacity you can compare one with another because they use the standard charge to measure it.


----------



## LED_Thrift (Nov 14, 2009)

^ Thanks for that explanation, Mr. H.


----------



## brjones (Nov 14, 2009)

Mr Happy, what figure were you thinking when you said it's best to charge at a "higher rate"--and why or how is it ideal? I thought heat was the enemy of batteries/charging, and the slower you went, and more properly you terminated, the better. Then, I've also heard it's best to 'shock' NiMH batteries, so I'm confused. I have a friend who's an EE and he doesn't even own a battery charger. He uses a 200mA wall wart (I forget the voltage, but it's low) and rigs it up to batteries, then plugs that into a lamp timer. He sets it to run a few minutes every day. He says they can't overcharge that way, even if he keeps them on days after charge is full, b/c the batteries don't get hot in that short time. He's cheap, did I mention that? And yes, he's okay waiting a week for his batts to charge! LOL.


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## LED_Thrift (Nov 14, 2009)

The problem with real slow charging rates is that it is very hard for the charger to sence that the cell is fully charged and terminate the charge properly. That is why the one-half C rate was recommended for the Eneloop cells [ie. a two hour charge time]. Slow enough to not build up much heat, fast enough for positive termination.


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 14, 2009)

brjones said:


> ...Personally, I want a smart charger which is as *low of an amperage as possible*...


Why? :thinking:



brjones said:


> ...*my old Radio Shack charger makes the batteries HOT.*


What's the:
RadioShack Charger Model Number?
Manufacturer/Rated Capacity of the cells?
Age of the cells?



brjones said:


> ...I've also heard *it's best to 'shock' NiMH batteries*...


Please explain this '_*shock*_' procedure.



brjones said:


> ...I have a friend who's an EE and he doesn't even own a battery charger. He uses a 200mA wall wart...



Click on my Sig Line LINK and read the topics with the keywords: *Charge Rate* and *Crystal*.



LED_Thrift said:


> *The problem with real slow charging rates is that it is very hard for the charger to sence that the cell is fully charged and terminate the charge properly.* That is why the one-half C rate was recommended for the Eneloop cells [ie. a two hour charge time]. Slow enough to not build up much heat, fast enough for positive termination.


:thumbsup: *Temperature vs Charge Rate vs Termination*


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## brjones (Nov 14, 2009)

Model is Radio Shack "CAT NO.: 23-405" 1-hour battery charger. "DC 5.6V 900mA". I guess the 1-hour thing explains the heat, but after the "smart" part stops main charging, it "trickle" charges indefinitely, and by that, I mean the batteries stay worrisomely warm until you take them off. Fresh off a charge, they're downright hot and almost too much to hold. It has separate slider selectors for NiCd/NiMH and 1pair/2pair. 

By "shock", I meant charging them as quickly as possible. If my 1-hr charger does this, I can't imagine a 15-minute charger. 

So, wouldn't it be better to trickle charge a batt to a certain point, then terminate it in a higher-voltage smart charger? Posters above seem to imply that the higher voltage is better even before nearing terminal charge. 

I'm surprised that people would say that a slightly more accurate termination with higher current is a better tradeoff than keeping the batteries completely cool at all times. I thought the problem with overcharging was the heat generated--wherefore depending how low the current and how long it's applied, it's difficult if not impossible to overcharge/damage them?


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 14, 2009)

brjones said:


> *Model is Radio Shack "CAT NO.: 23-405" 1-hour battery charger. "DC 5.6V 900mA"*. I guess the 1-hour thing explains the heat, but after the "smart" part stops main charging, it "trickle" charges indefinitely, and by that, I mean the batteries stay worrisomely warm until you take them off. *Fresh off a charge, they're downright hot and almost too much to hold.* It has separate slider selectors for NiCd/NiMH and 1pair/2pair...




```
1-Hour AA & AAA Ni-Cd/Ni-MH Battery Charger
(230-0405)                 Specifications             Faxback Doc. # 46862

Charging Current at 120V AC: .................... Ni-Cd AA: 900 mA +/- 10%
                             ................... Ni-Cd AAA: 250 mA +/- 10%
                             .................... Ni-MH AA: 900 mA +/- 10%
                             ................... Ni-MH AAA: 375 mA +/- 10%
                             .... Ni-Cd/NiMH 9-volt battery: 23 mA +/- 10%

Back-Up Power-Off Timer: ................... 1.5 Hours for Ni-Cd batteries
                                                     (Maximum 105 minutes)
                         ..................... 2 hours for Ni-MH batteries
                                                     (Maximum 130 minutes)

Specifications are typical; individual units might vary.  Specifications 
are subject to change and improvement without notice.

(SM/gw 04/07/98)
```
*Reference: **RS 23-405 Specifications*

900mA is less than 0.5C for AA Eneloops (0.45C). You probably have *CRAP* (High Internal Resistance) cells. Have you charged any NEW / VIBRANT cells in this charger? (You didn't answer all of my previous question(s).)



brjones said:


> ...By "shock", I meant charging them as quickly as possible. *If my 1-hr charger does this*, I can't imagine a 15-minute charger...


Your 23-405 was a "1 Hour Charger" back in 1998 - in 2009, with 2000mAh Eneloops, it's a "~2+ Hour Charger". 



brjones said:


> ...So, wouldn't it be better to trickle charge a batt to a certain point, then terminate it in a higher-voltage smart charger? Posters above seem to imply that the higher voltage is better even before nearing terminal charge.
> 
> I'm surprised that people would say that a slightly more accurate termination with higher current is a better tradeoff than keeping the batteries completely cool at all times. I thought the problem with overcharging was the heat generated--wherefore depending how low the current and how long it's applied, it's difficult if not impossible to overcharge/damage them?


Invest a few hours, CLICK on my Sig Line LINK and read some THEORY.

All of this has been discussed 'over-and-over-and-over' in the CPF Archives.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 14, 2009)

OK, let's clarify some things here. This question comes up over and over. I guess we need an "NiMH Charging 101" sticky at the top of the forum.

Excessive heat is a bad thing in NiMH charging, but it is not the only problem from overcharging. If you excessively overcharge an NiMH cell it generates gases that increase the pressure inside the cell and eventually blow the safety vent. The overcharging also causes "wear and tear" on the internal components of the cell, which while not immediately fatal, does add up over time to a reduction in performance.

What about the heat then?

If you charge a cell at low currents, below 0.1C, then the cell is designed to allow this current to pass on overcharge without severe problems. There are "recycle reactions" in the cell that can recombine the oxygen and hydrogen formed by electrolysis and prevent the pressure building up. This means you can safely charge at 0.1C or lower on a timer if you are patient and don't want the cells in a hurry.

If you want the cells to be charged faster you have a problem. The cell can happily absorb charge at rates up to 1C until it is nearly fully charged. After that there is a problem, and if you don't reduce or stop the charging current the cell will overheat, over pressurize, and generally be damaged. Until that time however, the high charging current is not a problem. Look at the graph below for an eneloop being charged at a current of 1.6 A:







Observe that even with this very high charging current the temperature didn't even rise above 34°C (hardly warm to the touch) until nearly at the end of charging. As long as the charger was able to stop charging where the graph ends, this charging current was no problem at all.

This is where the recommendation for high charging currents comes from. When you charge an NiMH cell, the voltage rises until the cell is fully charged, and then at the end the voltage drops a little (you can't see this on the graph as I didn't plot it). Most "smart" chargers look for this drop in voltage and use it to decide when to stop charging. And the drop in voltage is more pronounced when you use higher charging currents. Therefore the recommendation to use higher currents. You have a choice: either use a low current below 0.1C on a timer, or use a high current above 0.5C with a smart termination algorithm. But if you use a high charging current, you must have a good charger. A crap charger with a high charging current will just kill your batteries from overcharging and overheating by not stopping in time.

Now if your batteries themselves are in bad shape (i.e. crap), then they will get hot before they are charged and you will be forced to use lower charging currents regardless. But as you can see from the eneloop, good batteries do not have this problem.


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 14, 2009)

*SLOW Charge Rate vs 0.5-1.0C*

What about SLOW CHARGE RATE:
*->* Larger crystal growth
*->* Higher Internal Resistance & Possible Separator Damage
*->* Reduced Maximum Current & Reduced Capacity


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## NYC2SoCal (Nov 14, 2009)

So I went to one of my local Costcos today (there's 3 within 15 minutes of me).. This one had blacktops, packaging says made in Japan, but the label on the battery itself says Made in China.. So I didn't pick up any..

The interesting thing now.. I just came back from Walmart, saw the whitetop duracells, made in japan for both packaging and battery.. 12.97 for 4.. Didn't pick it up, but heres the thing.. Next to it were WHITETOP Rayovaks.. Made in China.

Not sure you can assume whitetop duracells are eneloops anymore.


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## MarioJP (Nov 14, 2009)

Mr Happy said:


> OK, let's clarify some things here. This question comes up over and over. I guess we need an "NiMH Charging 101" sticky at the top of the forum.
> 
> Excessive heat is a bad thing in NiMH charging, but it is not the only problem from overcharging. If you excessively overcharge an NiMH cell it generates gases that increase the pressure inside the cell and eventually blow the safety vent. The overcharging also causes "wear and tear" on the internal components of the cell, which while not immediately fatal, does add up over time to a reduction in performance.
> 
> ...



So dead on. Good healthy cells can handle higher charging rate. Sweet spot is 1A for AA and for AAA 500mA.

Crap cells will get hot even at lower charging rate, only difference there is that it will take more time for them to become hot. They get hot enough to burn and trips the thermal sensor. I am tired of crappy cells.


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 15, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> I would do couple of cycles because that exactly what happened when i got these duraloops.


 
Three cycles is plenty enough to get Dureneloops up to speed out of the package. In fact, after the initial discharge and first complete charge/discharge cycle, the second cycle only rendered 10-20 mAh more capacity. I've found when the difference is that small, additional cycles on Dureneloops don't yield appreciable gains. I do my cycles o the BC-900 at 700 mA charge/350 mA discharge rate.


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 15, 2009)

NYC2SoCal said:


> Not sure you can assume whitetop duracells are eneloops anymore.


 
Gotta carry a magnifier and look for the MIC or MIJ on the cells themselves.


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## NYC2SoCal (Nov 15, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> Gotta carry a magnifier and look for the MIC or MIJ on the cells themselves.



Yeap, gonna hit up the other two costcos to see if they have the whitetop MIJ ones..


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm still not convinced that everything made in China is bad.

My China Hybrids, Hybrios and Duraloops seem to be just fine.

If MIC Duraloops can be had cheap I see no reason not to have them.


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## Linger (Nov 15, 2009)

*_please don't quote entire posts, including graphs, when a simple '+1 Mr. Happy' will suffice*_
Thank-you for the graphic + explanation. It was nice to see temp rise with voltage.


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## Mr Happy (Nov 15, 2009)

Indeed. My "Made in China" Hybriloops look and behave just like eneloops. I still haven't figured out that puzzle. But if there should happen to be "Made in China" Duraloops that come from the same source I see no reason not to have them.


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## Light Sabre (Nov 15, 2009)

I just got home from Target. They had some white topped "Made in Japan" (on the battery and on the packaging) Duraloops in front of the Chinese ones. They weren't there yesterday. Not sure how to read the date code or what to look for. I'm just wondering if the Japanese factory couldn't keep up with the demand and Duracell added a 2nd source. Or maybe there are still some in the distribution chain. There were 4 or 5 packages of the Duraloops on the peg.


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 16, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> So dead on. Good healthy cells can handle higher charging rate. Sweet spot is 1A for AA and for AAA 500mA...





Linger said:


> *_*please don't quote entire posts, including graphs, when a simple '+1 Mr. Happy' will suffice**_...


*MarioJP*,

Please read the thread: *[RANT] Quoting *ENTIRE* Posts (Including PHOTOS!) When Replying...*

and consider editing (whichever of) your previous post(s) apply.

Thanks! (from *ALL* the:
56K Modem
DSL
Low-Powered (AKA *OLD!*) PC
...folks!) :thumbsup:


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## mitro (Nov 16, 2009)

Looked at my local Walmart this weekend and all they had were Duraloops, not a black top in sight. No bargain though at $14/4pk.


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## brjones (Nov 17, 2009)

Thanks TakeTheActive, MrHappy, et al.

So far there've been no comments on the concensus of 'quality' or technical details of the Costco DuraVac charger yet. I know some posters bought the package. Thanks to the info posted, I wasn't scared away by the higher charge current and asked my friend to pick me up one (I can always get it returned--it's probably a dual-channel,grr). If no one posts info on the DuraVac/funnyLoop charger, I'll do so when I get it.

No one also commented on whether it was possible to deduce the charge current from the "charge time" graph they gave on the back of the packaging. My guesstimate was that the charge current is at least 500mA.

TakeTheActive: YES, I don't know your sources, where you got info on my 11 year old charger! And YES, here my cells would be considered "crap": Lenmar 2000 and possibly 2200 mAh AA's from circa 1999-2001. Learning, hence wanting some "Loops", or to coin a term, "fauxLoops" (funnyloops). Honestly, I'm surprised they've lasted this long--they get occasional use (no idea the actual capacity). Don't know if that's a tribute to the batts or charger. Only 1 of 8 is completely dead so far (0 volts, won't take a charge). I've been careful to fully drain them before charging.


HOWEVER: i DID charge some real virgin Japanese Eneloops in that old Radio Shack "1 Hour" charger, and even the Eneloops got warm--which pissed me off, hence driving me to want a new charger. "Warm"? I'd say around 100F? Not hot, which I'd say is 120F+. But for virgin Eneloops, I was surprised, especially considering the OEM Sanyo charger didn't even make them perceptibly warm. You guys are saying my warm cells aren't a problem??

So you guys think I should stick with my 900mA 11-year-old charger (even with the 2-hour autoshutoff, and "warming tricklecharge" afterglow)? I have a hard time thinking those Eneloops cells are somehow being treated "kinder" than they are in my friend's Sanyo OEM charger, where the cells hardly get perceptibly warm! Comments invited.


Before this thread, I did also take some current measurements on the Amazon Sanyo Eneloop combo pack's charger vs my 1-hour (near full capacity, as they came that way); currents on both chargers were surprisingly similar at that point, and nearing full capacity were a lot lower current than the rated charge current (sorry I don't remember). So, both of them are smart. OR I figured batteries may naturally slow down the current themselves as they near full (probably a foolish thought). I can't explain the difference in cell temperatures.


Thanks for the reading material TTA, but man it's so much I'm still plodding through it (been busy). Commented to my friend how w/the Internet, it's 'easy to learn a little', and 'hard to learn a lot' b/c there's so much info. I agree that if there were a 'sticky' post, or any thread which had full authoritative info in 1 place without a lot of noise, it'd be easier to digest. TTA, I'll try to find the "crystal" posts re slow charging--haven't found that yet.


I've been here awhile and only now getting into charging theory and chemistries. I only realized about 3 mo ago that 90% of flashlight technology is really the batteries. And the same went with electric cars. If we could deliver the current, we'd have bulbs which could handle it. Hence my interest in LiMn batts, which can be small but dump a whole lot of current fast and safely.


So I figured I'd jump on the DuraLoop bandwagon while the getting was good (and my friend has new Costco membership). $15 8 AA's and 2 AAA's, not bad, even if Chinny. I just have to decide if the $15 for the charger, 4 AA's and 4 AAA's is a good enough deal to keep.


PS-I wonder if the Chinese Rayovac plant is making white-top Hybrids, now that they know people look for them? This "white top" thing has made it to the top of Amazon reviews, even w/user photos--so this must be in the mind of manufacturers.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 18, 2009)

brjones said:


> Thanks TakeTheActive, MrHappy, et al.
> 
> So far there've been no comments on the concensus of 'quality' or technical details of the Costco DuraVac charger yet. I know some posters bought the package. Thanks to the info posted, I wasn't scared away by the higher charge current and asked my friend to pick me up one (I can always get it returned--it's probably a dual-channel,grr). If no one posts info on the DuraVac/funnyLoop charger, I'll do so when I get it.
> 
> ...



Read the back of the Costco Duracell Rechargeable Pre-Charged package. Eight AA's and two AAA's "Made in Japan".

Bill


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## vivid (Nov 18, 2009)

I know this has been covered but after read this thread I am a bit confused... I bought what I thought were duraloops from costsco... they have the white top, the back cover states made in Japan. The battery have written on the: made in japan, AA, HR6, NiHM, 1,2v/2000mAh... I could not see any MIJ or MIC but I was not sure where to look.

are these the duraloops, or is the only real way to find out by test on a good charger?

If these are duraloops costco Cumberland Mall, Atlanta has some in stock.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 18, 2009)

If they are labeled made in Japan they are considered to be the good ones.

But I still say made in China are not junk.


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 19, 2009)

vivid said:


> The battery have written on the: made in japan, AA, HR6, NiHM, 1,2v/2000mAh... I could not see any MIJ or MIC but I was not sure where to look.


 
Made in Japan = MIJ
Made in China = MIC

It's shorter to abbreviate that way, but must remember not everyone makes the connection!


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## vivid (Nov 19, 2009)

Turbo,

I figured that out just before I went to bed last night and slapped my head after the revelation... I felt kind of stupid.

thanks though


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## mfm (Nov 19, 2009)

brjones said:


> So you guys think I should stick with my 900mA 11-year-old charger (even with the 2-hour autoshutoff, and "warming tricklecharge" afterglow)?.



No, get a better 1C charger.


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## NYC2SoCal (Nov 19, 2009)

So one of my costcos had the black top (MIJ on the package, but MIC on the cells).. Went to another Costco, and they had white top MIJ on the package and MIJ on the cells.. 

But the date code on the cell says 9F2510 I wonder if they changed the code to YxDDMM? The package says 9J03J1..


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 19, 2009)

Was in Livingston,TX Wal-Mart and AA Duracells were China while AAA were Japan.

Couldn't have acted on them if they were Japan...


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 19, 2009)

NYC2SoCal said:


> But the date code on the cell says 9F2510 I wonder if they changed the code to YxDDMM? The package says 9J03J1..


 
I don't know what the code on the package signifies. The code on the cell is what is pertains to the cell manufacture dates. 9Jxx on a cell right now would be inmpossible, since that would mean December 2009! Now that_ would _be fresh!


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 19, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Couldn't have acted on them if they were Japan...



?

Bill


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## Point Source (Nov 20, 2009)

After what seemed like months of seeing only the black top/MIC durabrids at my local Walmart, I was very surprised to see nothing but white top/MIJ duraloops the last time I was there! The positive button top on both the AA and AAA's appears to be the eneloop style, or close enough to convince me they're the real deal.

The duraloop lives! 

~$12.50/4 pack for AA, I didnt pay close enough attention to the AAA to remember their price, but it's probably the same.

This comes a week or two after I paid a little more to have 8 genuine eneloops sent to me because I was under the impression that the duraloops were no more, and genuine eneloops are not available in my area.

Oh well. 500 cycles from now, what's 4 bucks gonna matter anyways?


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 20, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> ?
> 
> Bill



You must be late to the party. I'm between jobs and buying something like batteries is not in the cards just now.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 20, 2009)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> You must be late to the party. I'm between jobs and buying something like batteries is not in the cards just now.



Just wondering, how am I late to the party? You posted in this thread that you were between jobs, and they are not in the cards for you now?

Bill


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 20, 2009)

Maybe I never posted that in this thread or even on CPF, but it's the truth and the way it is.

I'm waiting on the answer to 2 emails about jobs.


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## RA40 (Nov 20, 2009)

Appreciate the updates...WalMart and Target has been void for me and it's been a frustrating search. I'm still looking for the 1,500 cycle versions but they haven't turned up on the shelves in Japan.


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## JCup (Nov 22, 2009)

On 11/21/09 the Costco in West Plano, TX had the "Duracell Rechargeable Pre-Charged" packs of 8 AA and 2 AAA for $18.49 with a $5 coupon. This is Costco SKU 437287.

They also had the alternate package ($5 coupon also applies) with fewer batteries and a charger, but I did not look closely after I had the "eureka moment" of seeing the white tops on the 8+2 package.

The datecode on the package was 9I25J1 and the batteries were coded 9F25-1V. This implies a production date in late June.

Both the package and the batteries have "Made in Japan" printed, and they are white topped.

I measured, weighed, and looked closely with a loupe when I got them home. They are identical to the latest Sanyo Eneloops I have in every way but the gold/black Duracell plastic shrink wrapper - and even that is the same type of material.


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## batmanacw (Nov 25, 2009)

I just picked up some Duraloops at Target today. They had MIJ on both the package and the cells. Paid a lot for them though. $12.99 per 4 cells. Didn't have much cash with me so I will probably stop by and buy another 8 cells on Friday if the store isn't so busy I can't stand it!

I can't order Eneloops for less with shipping that I have found so far and I have a lot of lanterns to fill with rechargeables that don't need recharged on a monthly basis.


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## batmanacw (Nov 26, 2009)

Are the AAA duracell precharged batteries with white tops also repackaged eneloops?


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## Light Sabre (Nov 26, 2009)

yes, batmanacw


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## jhellwig (Dec 12, 2009)

Seen them at walmart today. Wrapper looked different but they were made in japan. Deffinatly an new shipment of them as there were many china ones and some older japan behind them.


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## Robin24k (Dec 13, 2009)

I got a pack of 8xAA and 2xAAA at Costco for $18.49 yesterday. White tops, date code 9H08, Made in Japan.

Would you guys say it's a good idea to charge it in a Rayovac PS23-B? It's a four-channel charger, not sure on the specifics, but the batteries were warm when they finished charging.


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## Black Rose (Dec 13, 2009)

Early this morning I picked up 4 more packs of Made In Japan Duraloop AAAs for $6.99 each.

The cells were manufactured in August and October 2008. 
They were packaged in September 2009.


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## TakeTheActive (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Rayovac PS23-B Charge Rate...*



Robin24k said:


> ...*Would you guys say it's a good idea to charge it in a Rayovac PS23-B?* It's a four-channel charger, not sure on the specifics, but *the batteries were warm when they finished charging*.


I'm not comfortable with the '_method of termination_' for 1-2 AA cells on my Rayovac PS-23B (Charge Rate = 1300mA). :thumbsdow 


> *CHARGED in PS-23B until Green LED On: 18 minutes (1300mA x 18/60hr = 390mAh) 95% Overcharge [101°F]*


*Reference: *(my regularly updated reply in): *Test for how well batteries suit your charger*

3-4 cells cuts the PS23-B Charge Rate in half, but, I haven't tested that mode yet...
*__________________________________________________*

P.S. to CPF Members: Notice how EASILY (often?) a thread goes OT. 

Please read: *[RANT] Give the Man a FRESH Fish or a *STALE* Fish?* :sigh:


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## Robin24k (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Rayovac PS23-B Charge Rate...*

Interesting, thanks! I wonder if the results will be better if the batteries are discharged more? I tend to go through rather complete cycles for my batteries.


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## TakeTheActive (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Rayovac PS23-B Charge Rate...*



Robin24k said:


> ...*I wonder if the results will be better if the batteries are discharged more?*


*PeAK*, for his 'EXPERIMENT', originally suggested discharging *ALL* cells 100mAh, IIRC. After my first RUN, I suggested changing it to "10% of published Capacity".

Since *PeAK* didn't reply, *AND* I appeared to be the *ONLY* CPF Member running the 'EXPERIMENT' on MULTIPLE chargers / MULTIPLE cells, I changed the parameters and continued.

If *YOU* would also run *PeAK's* 'EXPERIMENT' (using "10% of published Capacity"), we'd then have MULTIPLE sets of data to compare. 

*Test for how well batteries suit your charger*


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## Robin24k (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Rayovac PS23-B Charge Rate...*

Sorry...I'm not going to be of much help...the PS23-B is my best charger... :shrug:


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