# How long will a Cree XR-E Q5 last driven at 2A?



## mrk442 (Dec 7, 2007)

old info


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## Gunner12 (Dec 7, 2007)

It should still last a few hundred hours.

Since the 502B takes a p60 type module, you could probably unscrew the module and swap the LED and driver.


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## mrk442 (Dec 7, 2007)

On the p60 drop is do you need to use a star or does the module act as the heat sink... sorry meant to ask before


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## Gunner12 (Dec 7, 2007)

A Q5 will fry it self in a few hours if you just use the star. No enough metal.

Open up the module and see what they use. You could probably trim a star to fit.

The module + the flashlight should be acting as the heatsink since the module is probably touching the light.


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## saabluster (Dec 7, 2007)

mrk442 said:


> Just wondering how much they can take and how long they will run at 2A or maybe 1.5a would be better before and is a single 18650 capable of feeding a 2A draw.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt


I have a an XRE in one of my flashlights that runs slightly under 1500m(About 1450).It gets used every day on average of 20 minutes a day and it is still going strong after almost a year. The Q4 in my Super Thrower is running at 2As and has been doing so for about 6 hours all added up. No sign yet that the leds output has degraded. And I have been monitoring it with a light meter.

Yes one 18650 should be able to take a 2A draw. However you may find it difficult to push that for very long because of the generally high Vf of the Q5s at that drive level. This is much better accomplished with two cells.


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## Gryloc (Dec 7, 2007)

mrk442,

I had a good experience with using these drivers:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3256

I have a 2C Maglite that used a Rebel 0100, powered by two li-ion cells. I wanted the Rebel to operate at ~2A or slightly less. I read that someone on the DX forum (saabman) successfully hooked two in parrallel to combine the current outputs of the two drivers. I am sure any driver can do this, but I was always concerned that with some current regulating drivers, the electronics would conflict (from any signals created from the ICs that may be found in the output leads -I am not an EE). The drivers are spec'ed at 800mA, but they seem to vary a bit (between 800mA and 1000mA I believe). So you should see anywhere from 1.5A to 2A with two in parrallel. My two gave me almost 2A when in parrallel, and they perform very nicely. If the current is too high, then read the little post about scraping a bit of material off of the 20M-Ohm resistor to reduce the output current. 

So, whether you have one 18650 or two, this driver will work for you. As for the 18650s, they should be able to handle 2A since this draw should be at or below 1C (most cells have a 2000mAh-2600mAh capacity). With a driver, the current draw should be less than 2A if the LED is at 2A. The Vf of the Q5 Cree at 2A should still be below the output voltage of the 18650 with a full charge. Remember, Iin * Vin = Iout * Vout. With two cells in series going to the driver, the current will be half of this, so you will be even better off.

As for LEDs, 2A will not kill the emitters if they are properly heatsinked and they are somewhat cool. Lifetime will be reduced, but it should still last for many thousands of hours. Efficiency will take a hit, but in a super bright, super throwing torch, who cares? (I do not ) Expect somewhere over 300lm at 2A with a Q5. The Q4s produced over 325lm @ 2A according to this article:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/172379
There will be losses due to heat, the lens, and the reflector, but they are insignificant.

I am constantly impressed by my Rebel 0100 at 2A with the stock 50mm Maglite reflector. My cheaper light meter reads over 20,000 lux at 1 meter (conservatively), and my meter seems to have lower readings with cool colored LEDs. Many with this meter say that their readings are on the low side. With a Q5 and the proper reflector (like yours), you will get a similar satisfaction. 

Well, good luck and happy modding! I hope the heatsinking is good enough so you can go through with the mod.

-Tony


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## 65535 (Dec 7, 2007)

Not nearly as long as a pair or even 3 LED's being driven total at that wattage. If you have the space, multiple emitters will last longer and be more efficient. Honestly Lumen maintenance is pathetic at best when severely over the rated current, so you will get large output drops in short amounts of time.


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## saabluster (Dec 8, 2007)

65535 said:


> Not nearly as long as a pair or even 3 LED's being driven total at that wattage. If you have the space, multiple emitters will last longer and be more efficient. Honestly Lumen maintenance is pathetic at best when severely over the rated current, so you will get large output drops in short amounts of time.


It will last long enough. I highly doubt anyone here has ever used one of their flashlights for 50,000 hrs. Multiple emiters will put out more light when ran at the same total watts but they will not have the same throw if using the same size flashlight.
How long have you driven your Q5s at 2As?


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## saabluster (Dec 8, 2007)

Gryloc said:


> I read that someone on the DX forum (saabman) successfully hooked two in parrallel



Gee, I wonder who that could be?:nana: It doesn't work with all drivers though. I tried it with one of the 7135 boards and nothing happened. How does the tint of the Rebel hold up at those drive levels?


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## TorchBoy (Dec 8, 2007)

saabluster said:


> It doesn't work with all drivers though. I tried it with one of the 7135 boards and nothing happened.


 You tried putting _one_ AMC7135 board in parallel with... an LED? :thinking:

One of these boards (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3256) in parallel with an AMC7135 board?


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## saabluster (Dec 8, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> You tried putting _one_ AMC7135 board in parallel with... an LED? :thinking:
> 
> One of these boards (http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3256) in parallel with an AMC7135 board?


No. Of course not. Thats crazy talk . I used two of the AMC7135 1400mA Regulated Circuit Boards in parallel with one LED.


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## TorchBoy (Dec 8, 2007)

saabluster said:


> I used *two* of the AMC7135 *1400mA* Regulated Circuit Boards in parallel with one LED.


If you had them connected properly, do you think 2.8A could be the reason "nothing happened"?


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## saabluster (Dec 9, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> If you had them connected properly, do you think 2.8A could be the reason "nothing happened"?


Again, crazy talk. They are only 1400mA if you make the right connections on the driver. I did not do this. If memory serves I tried it with them both set up to give 1000mA each. And I used that same LED right after that with the other drivers so I know the LED was OK.


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## TorchBoy (Dec 9, 2007)

saabluster said:


> Again, crazy talk. They are only 1400mA if you make the right connections on the driver. I did not do this. If memory serves I tried it with them both set up to give 1000mA each. And I used that same LED right after that with the other drivers so I know the LED was OK.


So you weren't actually connecting 1400mA boards to the LED in anything except name. :shakehead And you didn't instaflash your LED after trying to feed 2.8 amps into it. 

Did you ever think it might be easier to just explain what you were doing?


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## saabluster (Dec 10, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> So you weren't actually connecting 1400mA boards to the LED in anything except name. :shakehead And you didn't instaflash your LED after trying to feed 2.8 amps into it.
> 
> Did you ever think it might be easier to just explain what you were doing?


I just said which boards I used. That is their name. That post was not intended to be an in depth reply about the AMC7135 boards. All you need to know is it does not work. Give me a little credit for knowing the difference between a bad driver setup and a blown LED.


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## TorchBoy (Dec 10, 2007)

saabluster said:


> All you need to know is it does not work. Give me a little credit for knowing the difference between a bad driver setup and a blown LED.


Great, I've misunderstood you again, then, because I thought you said you _hadn't_ connected them properly. But if they were connected properly I don't see what difference connecting three or four of them in parallel will have to connecting six in parallel, apart from the total current. The AMC7135 _does_ work in parallel, and hence the 700mA, 1050mA, and 1400mA boards. Do you have any ideas yourself why you were unable to get them to work?


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## saabluster (Dec 10, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> Great, I've misunderstood you again, then, because I thought you said you _hadn't_ connected them properly. But if they were connected properly I don't see what difference connecting three or four of them in parallel will have to connecting six in parallel, apart from the total current. The AMC7135 _does_ work in parallel, and hence the 700mA, 1050mA, and 1400mA boards. Do you have any ideas yourself why you were unable to get them to work?


 
I was talking about the AMC7135 as complete boards not about the individual chips. I'm sure you could find a way to make it work by connecting the chips from one board to another. I however was just was just connecting the inputs together and the outputs together so the BOARDS would be parallel. This is the same thing I did for the other boards mentioned in this thread and it worked beautifully for them. If you think you can make two of these AMC7135 boards work together please let me know how you do it.


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## mrk442 (Dec 10, 2007)

Wow thanks for the info guys i go away for the weekend and poof all sorts of replys.

I considered using the boards listed above http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3256 because you get three for like what 6 bucks and they are in th right amp range but i was leaning toward trying http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7612 because it is a multi mode board and i like the idea of having full blinding 2A when i want it but also of having a usable 200ma and 700ma output when needed. the only problem i have with the board is that its 3.6 only so i will have to come up with a way to run the 18650 in Parallel to increase run time  

does anyone know of a board that would offer similar features but a higher voltage range?
16 mode driver circuit board for CREE / SSC LEDs
- 17mm circuit board base diameter
- Powered by 3 x 7135 IC's
- 1000mA 3.7V output
- 16-mode consolidated into 3 groups:

Low (10%) - Mid (35%) - High (100%) - Strobe - SOS
Low (10%) - Mid (35%) - High (100%)

Low (10%) - Mid (35%) - High (100%) - Special Police Type Strobe - Slow Strobe (3Hz) - Super Slow Strobe (1Hz) - SOS

I really like the fact the the first click gives you low power first and increases from there it just seems more useful so thats another thing i am looking for  i really only need number 1,2,or 3 i mean the strobes are fun and given the choice i would go with Low (10%) - Mid (35%) - High (100%) - Special Police Type Strobe - Slow Strobe (3Hz) - Super Slow Strobe (1Hz) - SOS but for this light its not a top priority 

thanks!!!!


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## LukeA (Dec 10, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> So you weren't actually connecting 1400mA boards to the LED in anything except name. :shakehead And you didn't instaflash your LED after trying to feed 2.8 amps into it.
> 
> Did you ever think it might be easier to just explain what you were doing?



You don't instaflash LEDs with high current.


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## TorchBoy (Dec 10, 2007)

saabluster said:


> If you think you can make two of these AMC7135 boards work together please let me know how you do it.


Like I said, I don't see why it wouldn't work, so I'll give it a go a bit later. Does a single AMC7135 on each of two boards sound OK? I think that would prove the principle.



mrk442 said:


> does anyone know of a board that would offer similar features but a higher voltage range?


You're not the only person looking for such a board. (I've chimed in on the odd driver search thread recently.) I haven't seen any other suggestions. But if you don't mind a bit of soldering I had the idea of using a Kennan from KD and replacing the set resistor with three different resistors operated by a multiposition switch. It would give you three different fixed-current settings plus off, and cope with anything from about 5V (to drive an LED at 3.6V) up to 18V.



LukeA said:


> *You* don't instaflash LEDs with high current.


You mean *you* don't, right?  :sigh: (Or are you arguing the toss about whether it's current or voltage that does it?  )


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## mrk442 (Dec 10, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> Like I said, I don't see why it wouldn't work, so I'll give it a go a bit later. Does a single AMC7135 on each of two boards sound OK? I think that would prove the principle.
> 
> 
> You're not the only person looking for such a board. (I've chimed in on the odd driver search thread recently.) I haven't seen any other suggestions. But if you don't mind a bit of soldering I had the idea of using a Kennan from KD and replacing the set resistor with three different resistors operated by a multiposition switch. It would give you three different fixed-current settings plus off, and cope with anything from about 5V (to drive an LED at 3.6V) up to 18V.


 
Nope don't mind soldering in the slightest and thats an interesting idea although i was looking for 2a output total but i might just have to settle 

then again heck maybe i could build a stepper the goes in-line and feeds the two board combo its 3.6v... than again by that point i am up to 3 boards in a single light which is a bit excessive perhaps maybe i should just build my own board  anyone know where to source 7135's

I found this one that looks promising maybe http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3256

* This is custom made item, will usually take about a week to custom built

- Measures in 17mm, height is 2.5mm
- Uses four 7135 chip, current regulated at 1200mA
- Battery reverse polarity protection
- Use with all types of 1W/3W CREE/SSC/Lumileds/Rebel LEDs - Two MCU versions available (3 simple modes v.s. 19 modes in 3 groups)
- 10%/40%/100% output
- Low/Med/High, tap switch to switch to next light mode

* Support any input voltage from 2.6V to 6V (works best from 3.5V+)

Dimensions:
Diameter 17mm / Height: 2.5mm
Maximum current output:
Fully regulated at 1.2A on high mode

But its still only good two 6v......... at if its truly 1.2a thats a bit higher then i want to go at 2.4 total  then again if its only for short burst it might not go nuclear... truthfully i don't know as i have not tested i am planning on milling a body from some copper stock i have as i decided it would be easier to go that route than to modify an existing light. so i don't think heat dissipation will be an issue with a solid chunk of copper around it..


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## TorchBoy (Dec 10, 2007)

mrk442 said:


> then again heck maybe i could build a stepper the goes in-line and feeds the two board combo its 3.6v... than again by that point i am up to 3 boards in a single light which is a bit excessive perhaps maybe i should just build my own board  anyone know where to source 7135's


You could rip the step-down board out of a Ludde car USB supply (at KD or DX) - gives a regulated 5 to 5.5V out, which the AMC7135s would be quite happy with - but you'd probably need a couple to drive the 1.2 amp board. So once again you'd have three boards.

The Kennan board is smaller than the one in the Ludde but it might try to feed too much voltage to an AMC7135 board if the 7135s weren't using all the current it wanted to feed it. Not good for the multimode control chip either, which someone mentioned has a max voltage of 6.5V.


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## LukeA (Dec 10, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> You mean *you* don't, right?  :sigh: (Or are you arguing the toss about whether it's current or voltage that does it?  )



2 or 3 amps won't immediately kill the LED. It needs time (just a few seconds or so) to heat up. High voltage however, can make them explode (at least Rebel TVS diodes).


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## TorchBoy (Dec 10, 2007)

LukeA said:


> 2 or 3 amps won't immediately kill the LED. It needs time (just a few seconds or so) to heat up.


Sounds like that's not high current then.


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## LukeA (Dec 10, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> Sounds like that's not high current then.



What kind of high current are you talking about? Like 20A? That would kill the die pretty quick/


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## TorchBoy (Dec 11, 2007)

LukeA said:


> Like 20A? That would kill the die pretty quick/


And hence "instaflash". :ironic: But it certainly doesn't take that much.


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## mrk442 (Dec 11, 2007)

so the 7135 give 350ma each right so if i take a board with three http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.7612 ie 1050ma and add an additional 3 in parallel that would give me 2A then i just need to add a voltage regulator and i am a happy guy  with my multi mode and all  sigh i was looking for a drop in but alas looks like i will be scratch building or at least hybridizing existing boards. back to my original question does anyone know where to sorce 7135's or do i just have to pull them from a board.. might be cheaper i guess


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## TorchBoy (Dec 11, 2007)

mrk442 said:


> so the 7135 give 350ma each right


Nominally. The actual figure might be anywhere from 300mA to 380mA according to the specsheet.



mrk442 said:


> back to my original question does anyone know where to sorce 7135's or do i just have to pull them from a board..


I don't know anywhere else to get them. So you're thinking of having a single board with _six_ AMC7135s. Sounds great. I have no idea how the multimode controller will handle the extras, let us know how it goes.


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## mrk442 (Dec 12, 2007)

TorchBoy said:


> I don't know anywhere else to get them. So you're thinking of having a single board with _six_ AMC7135s. Sounds great. I have no idea how the multimode controller will handle the extras, let us know how it goes.


 
Thats the idea i don't know how the controller will do but i don't really want to have to make my own controller just because i am lazy I am going to add a voltage regulator in-line and then add the three extra 7135's. It occurred to me that there is really no reason why i have to use the 7135's other then the fact that they are well tried so i am shopping for a current regulator that will give me similar characteristics with a higher output. I found a few in the 1A range from a single chip and one at 2A that might have promise i will post after i have had the chance to read through the specs more closely.


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