# SureFire M6 vs 1 million candlepower spotlight



## ugrey (Jan 30, 2006)

I live beside a dead end street. Two or three times a month a car parks on the dead end at night. I go out and shine a Vector 1 million candlepower spot light on them for about 5 seconds, and then they suddenly remember there is somewhere else they have to be, and they leave very quickly. Maybe spot lights should be sold as memory aids.
How does a SF M6 (hola or lola) stack up against a 1 million candlepower spotlight? I have a SF Z3 with a P91 and it is not even close. Thanks for any answers.


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## Flakey (Jan 30, 2006)

i dont know how sfm6 compares to a 1mcp light but if you even begining to consider buying one let me be the first to urge you to mod a maglight instead of buying a M6! it will be cheaper, brighter and rechargeable, reguardless of what mod you chose! just my 2 cents!


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## bwaites (Jan 30, 2006)

Double post!~


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## bwaites (Jan 30, 2006)

Flakey--Huh?

What Maglight Mod?

I have them all, and only 1 is appreciably brighter, the Mag85.

The rest are not as bright.

None are as bright in the same package size.

Bill


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## lebox97 (Jan 30, 2006)

I don't understand trying to compare something that fits in your back pocket to something that fits in your (car) back seat?:huh2:
(it's like comparing a Ferrari to a Chevy Truck? They each have specific uses in life)

a modded mag would be cheaper than the M6 and smaller than the Vector though! :naughty:


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## chevrofreak (Jan 30, 2006)

ugrey said:


> I live beside a dead end street. Two or three times a month a car parks on the dead end at night. I go out and shine a Vector 1 million candlepower spot light on them for about 5 seconds, and then they suddenly remember there is somewhere else they have to be, and they leave very quickly. Maybe spot lights should be sold as memory aids.
> How does a SF M6 (hola or lola) stack up against a 1 million candlepower spotlight? I have a SF Z3 with a P91 and it is not even close. Thanks for any answers.


 

Dude leave me alone, I've just been trying to get laid!


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## 270winchester (Jan 30, 2006)

Flakey said:


> i dont know how sfm6 compares to a 1mcp light but if you even begining to consider buying one let me be the first to urge you to mod a maglight instead of buying a M6! it will be cheaper, brighter and rechargeable, reguardless of what mod you chose! just my 2 cents!



Regardless of what mod he chooses? Have you ever seen a M6 in person? or a Modified Maglite for that matter? Or are you just using what others keep saying on this forum? One too many psots about "my 700 lumen mag11"?

back on topic, the M6 will have less throw most likely since it's a beautiful blend of throw and flood and for you purpose you vector may be just as good for your intended purpose. At a far distance the spotlight will have a better brightness factor on the target, with less coverage. If you really want to light them up just get a Cyclops 15 million light(not 15 million CP, just the name). just be safe when you use it in case it's some less than stellar character behind the wheel...


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## CLHC (Jan 30, 2006)

What Bill (bwaites) and Nick (270Winchester) said!

The SureFire M6 is something to behold and appreciated especially in its size factor. The sheer light output from it, is, well, something that you yourself would have to experience. . .Enjoy!


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## mdocod (Jan 30, 2006)

i think of surefire style lights as lights designed for room clearing, weapon mountable, super durable, with beam profiles that make the most use of the light for their intended range... I have a $10 vector "1 million candle power" light in both of my cars, the ones I have are a pretty wide focus...

I can say that my cheapo vectors, and my slightly modified thor, are both significantly brighter than my "175 lumen" high pressure G90 tactical lamp... however, the thor only runs for 20-40 minuts, the vector requires a cigarette lighter, and neithor of them will fit in a pocket, where the tactical light will.

If you are just looking for more oomf from a slighty more portable light... I agree that a mag-mod is more cost effective...

the mag 85 is nice- but there are more powerfull options becoming available using 50+W bulbs. and building those options is still cheaper than those super-pricey surefires.


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## ugrey (Jan 30, 2006)

Chevrofreak, Get a motel room. If I ever see you in the dead end I am going to turn the hose on you and your "-itch" 
I am thinking about buying a SF M6 and I wondered if it is anywhere near as bright as my spotlight. Anybody own both?


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## JasonC8301 (Jan 30, 2006)

I would rather have a SF M6 on my rifle than a 1 million CP spot light, LOL (then again the M6 is still a bit front heavy at certain times and most opt for a 2 or 3 cell SF weapons light) but back to topic.

I doubt the SF M6 will 'throw' as far as the 1 million cp spot light. After seeing the Costco HID (in its large milk crate size monstrosity) and some 'smaller' side spotlights, the M6 doesn't throw as far because it doesn't have a pencil thin beam. 

Some Mag mods are a PIA. I am not dealing with charging 9 cells for a Mag85 in a 3D Mag with 3 X 3 X AA to D adaptors. Adding in a charger or three, batteries, spare batteries, the Mag-lites, finding bulbs, and add in time to charge everything, its not going to cost as much as an M6, but its not going to be cheap either. A Magcharger with new bulb and pack can add up too. 

My M6 has a rather large hotspot with some spill (some spill coming from the intense hotspot.) I do not use it for throw but medium range use and when I need a lot of light from a portable package. My Tigerlights with Gen4 lamp throw more but with slightly less output. 

Also as said the SF M6 is something to behold. Everyone that asks about it or I show it to are impressed with the output to size ratio. Nothing like having 500+ lumens in a jacket pocket (try that with a spot light, lol.) 

A step-up would probably be a Costco HID light or possibly a 1kw tank light?


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## CLHC (Jan 30, 2006)

Wait a second. . .I do have a 1MCP Brinkmann (don't know how it compares to Vector) and have not done a side-by-side comparo with my SureFire M6. I'll have to do that. The spotlight runs on newly recharge batteries for only 8 or so minutes though. The SF.M6 with HOLA for some 18 minutes, but not for the full 500*+* (notice that "plus" symbol) Lumen output.

Will post later. . .


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## Flakey (Jan 30, 2006)

270 winchester,
Ive never been offended by anything that anyone has said on these forums to date please reconsider your wording. i was quasi appaled that you would speak to another CPF'er that way. Rudeness and arrogence isn't cool at all please dont just assume that i have no idea what i am talking about because that really isnt the case. yes i have seen modded mags and am currently building a 57W mag mod ..... yes i have seen an m6 before lol. Mag 74, 85, 11, 66, 35W, 100W, and ROP should all be brighter than an M6 assuming they are overdriven to some degree (which they damn well should.) And how does an M6 fit in your pocket? Unless your everyday wear includes camoflauge you wont be edc'ing a M6. AWR's M66 whips the m6 for alot less. Assuming that Ugrey isnt strapping a light to his M4 to shoot at the people parked down the block ... why would he need an m6? im not trying to bash SF's prouduct i own a few surefire lights myself and i only see the collection getting bigger. just saying that there are mag mods that might be alot better for his uses and be alot cooler too. there is nothing like swiching on a light that you fabbed up. Bwates i thought you were on the UCL team? lol dont tell me that thing doesnt melt the HAIII off of an m6! In all reality though 15mcp light would probably be the best / cheapest for the job. I was meerly trying to get another newbie to consider mag modding.


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## bwaites (Jan 30, 2006)

Flakey,

The problem is that you made a blanket statement: 

"let me be the first to urge you to mod a maglight instead of buying a M6! it will be cheaper, brighter and rechargeable, reguardless of what mod you chose"

That statement is simply NOT TRUE.

Mag11's and Mag74's are NOT brighter than an M6. Of those mentioned, only the Mag85, Mag66, and the Osram variations such as the Mag100, USL, and a few other specialty lights. 

All of those variants are larger than an M6 by a significant degree. The smallest, the USL, is still well over an inch longer and significantly heavier. 

One of the problems with the MagMods is that everyone loves to quote the bulb lumens, (how much light the lamp produces) and compare it with Surefires numbers. Surefire uses *MIDPOINT VOLTAGE (the voltage halfway thru a full run) *to determine it's output numbers, thus they are real world numbers. 

On top of that, Surefire, unlike anyone who makes MagMods, (and I have built and sold probably as many as anyone on CPF), uses TRUE outputs, (called *torch lumens* here on CPF) determined by placing the light in an integrating sphere. So that 500 lumens is equivalent to roughly 750-800 bulb lumens, *at the midpoint of the run!* If you used starting voltage, the M6 puts out around 630 torch lumens, equivalent to nearly 1000 bulb lumens!!!

Take a Mag85, which starts at greater than 1100 bulb lumens on good cells, and run it to the midpoint, and it will be putting out somewhere around 800 to 1000 bulb lumens, (if you are using decent cells!). That is equivalent to about 550 to 650 torch lumens. That isn't much different from the M6 at mid point. 

The Mag74 and Mag11 are less powerful in their outputs, except that neither starts as bright as the M6 does, and they fall off just the same. Those MagMods are not comparable to the M6.

The Mag66 does a very nice job, throws a big beam that does outperform the M6, especially with a nicely orangepeeled or stippled reflector. It runs on 11 or 12 cells, though, so it isn't a real comparison. It weighs nearly twice as much and is lots bigger. 

And yes, I carry my M6 in my back jeans pocket, or in the cargo pocket on parachute pants. You can't sit down on it, but it rides there without falling out. Try that with a 3D MagMod!!

Finally, you asked if I was on the *UCL *team, the UCL is a lens for flashlights, or more properly termed, a window for flashlights. They are made by flashlightlens.com. So no, I am not affiliated with him.

I *AM* the creator/modder/builder (with LOTS of help) of the USL, an 11 cell, 2D sized, 100 watt highly modified Maglite that produces 2800 bulb lumens, or about 2100-2200 torch lumens. 

Along with js (Jim Sexton) and Ginseng (Wilkey Wong) I am also part of *Team Tres Amigos*, a loose affiliation of hotwire afficionados and modders. Both Jim and Wilkey, though, are leaps and bounds beyond me when it comes to the whys and wherefores!!

Bill


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## 270winchester (Jan 30, 2006)

Flakey said:


> 270 winchester,
> Ive never been offended by anything that anyone has said on these forums to date please reconsider your wording. i was quasi appaled that you would speak to another CPF'er that way. Rudeness and arrogence isn't cool at all please dont just assume that i have no idea what i am talking about because that really isnt the case. yes i have seen modded mags and am currently building a 57W mag mod ..... yes i have seen an m6 before lol. Mag 74, 85, 11, 66, 35W, 100W, and ROP should all be brighter than an M6 assuming they are overdriven to some degree (which they damn well should.) And how does an M6 fit in your pocket? Unless your everyday wear includes camoflauge you wont be edc'ing a M6. AWR's M66 whips the m6 for alot less. Assuming that Ugrey isnt strapping a light to his M4 to shoot at the people parked down the block ... why would he need an m6? im not trying to bash SF's prouduct i own a few surefire lights myself and i only see the collection getting bigger. just saying that there are mag mods that might be alot better for his uses and be alot cooler too. there is nothing like swiching on a light that you fabbed up. Bwates i thought you were on the UCL team? lol dont tell me that thing doesnt melt the HAIII off of an m6! In all reality though 15mcp light would probably be the best / cheapest for the job. I was meerly trying to get another newbie to consider mag modding.



Okay, look, which part of "for you purpose you vector may be just as good for your intended purpose" did you not see? 

Let's see, I have bult Mag85 for a year and half now, with four battery configuration(3x3xAA, 2x4.5X123s, 9AA, (9XCBP1650), four reflector types(LOP, MOP, Smooth, FM 3inch head) and three socket cofnigurations(potted, bi-pin, high temp socket). 

Fabbed up? I built mag74, mag11, mag60, mag66, and all that before most people even heard of them(but after Ginseng discovered the field). I still have dozens of bulbs and adaptors waiting to be used.

6 months ago I built a 100w 3D Maglite recently using 12 high current cells, custom made switch, and pushing 170 peak watts on fresh charge, but I'll take the reliability of a M6 anyday.

Dude, you've only been here for a month and half and this is not a good way to make friends in a new place.

Oh and do you intend to EDC your maglite too?

Anyhow, what Bwaited said.


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## slind1 (Jan 30, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> Dude leave me alone, I've just been trying to get laid!



ROTFL...


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## bole64 (Jan 30, 2006)

And on Ugrey’s question, I just wanted to attempt to answer it for you, but I have found this tread to be very informative. I think someone did a review of the 1million CP Vector lite before and called it a poor man’s M6. I own one too (I got one that has 3 different light modes and a fluorescent lamp on the top, hopefully this is the one you are talking about). I also own a M6 with a M6-R pack in it. I have never checked my self, but the person who did the review said that the light output of the vector on it’s highest setting is about equal to the M6 LOLA, but the vector has better throw. I would bet that even the HOLA does not have the throw as the Vector. But they are 2 different classes of light, so I don’t know how well you can compare the two. I will compare the 2 lights tonight and post again for you, maybe a beam shot???

Edit: Just noticed i have been here a whole year now, and i still check the forums every day and enjoy every minute of it.


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## Luna (Jan 30, 2006)

bwaites said:


> Surefire uses MIDPOINT VOLTAGE (the voltage halfway thru a full run) to determine it's output numbers, thus they are real world numbers.



Cool! So my L2 is really a 200lumen light ! <wink>

Seriously though, the 20-40watters are still in a similar category. The worthy differences are size, reliability and operating cost. A 1160 MC + upgraded stick wins the $$$ and reliable every night usage award in my book.

I can't of a realistic scenario that negates where the M6 or 1185 can do something the MC60 cannot (but then again we have been down this road before) Everything else is just for bragging.

(same goes with the Gladius/U2/ or any other 3w/5w argument)


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## Luna (Jan 30, 2006)

slind1 said:


> ROTFL...


Apparently he was too....


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## bwaites (Jan 30, 2006)

For cost/value, I'm not sure anything beats the Mag60 and now the new Tigerlight Gen 4 with upgraded battery pack. 

Mag really needs to switch over to NiMH cells to improve the MagCharger.

The 3.5-4 Ah cells make the MagCharger a serious contender.

Bill


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## MongoMadness (Jan 30, 2006)

Back to the question originally asked:

I would think that "1 million cp" spotlights probably very greatly in their output. As a result it probably isn't wise to make a blanket statement about how they might compare to the M6.

I have a Coleman "1 million cp" rechargeable spotlight and it isn't even close to as bright as my M6 with the HOLA bulb.

If you are considering spending the kind of money that an M6 would require and you are mainly using the light for the described purpose then size might not be one of the most important criteria to you.

If that is the case you might consider the X990 - you can spot or flood that parked car and blind the living crap out of them for not much more than an M6.


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## bwaites (Jan 30, 2006)

Or maybe a Harbor Freight HID, which will REALLY put a spot on them.

At 3 meters, it's nearly twice as bright a spot as the X990, and costs about half or so of the price.

Bill


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## powernoodle (Jan 30, 2006)

ugrey - 

I can pretty much guarantee that you would be mighty impressed with a 15MCP Thor Cyclops at $60 maybe. See the pic below.


Bill - 

My Cyclops is the brightest in my arsenal. _Its pretty dang bright_, and will reach way, way out there.

Any idea how the Harbor Freight HID compares?

I'm cogitating on a HF HID or Acro/Mcculloch x990 if I can find one, but don't want to spend $130 on a HF or $400 on a x990 unless it blows the Holy Snot out of the Cyclops.


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## nc987 (Jan 30, 2006)

Ok, so I guess im the only one that is curious as to why your shining a flashlight at people parked in their cars......are they doing something wrong?


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## powernoodle (Jan 30, 2006)

Nothing wrong with sitting in a parked car. But doing it at the end of a darkened dead end street indicates that they don't want to be seen. And its probably safe to say that people who don't want to be see are doing so for a reason. I'd blast 'em too.


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## bwaites (Jan 30, 2006)

Powernoodle, 

Well said!!

This is the 12th time I've tried to post in this thread, and CPF has given me the "Database error" message or the "server too busy" message!

My Costco HID *significantly *outthrows my Thors. I'm guessing that it throws a visible beam well more than half a mile. I have a water tower that is lasered at 931 yards from my house that the Costco HID lights up easily even with some ambient light. The Thors won't do that. 

I don't have a Cyclops, but my guess is that the HID will outthrow it because the size of the source of light is smaller, and can be more tightly focused.

Bill


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## bwaites (Jan 30, 2006)

double post


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## CLHC (Jan 30, 2006)

Yes! MTBKNDAD has posted photos and has mentioned that the CostcoHID/HF.HID does out do the 15MCP Thors in his comparison testing. . .


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## ugrey (Jan 30, 2006)

nc987, Can you say; drinking; dope smoking; fireworks at midnight; one wino, about 25 visits ; one prowler at one of my open windows while parked in the dead end (held at gunpoint for the police); vomit; used as an open urinal; used needles; used diapers; used "balloons"; boy and girl night wrestling; boy and ? night wrestling; party garbage dumped (can't leave it at home for mommy and daddy to find when they get home,go dump it down in the dead end street); 2 stolen cars, one set on fire; stolen city property dumped; assorted trash and a few gatherings that I could not figure out what in the wide world of sports was going on. The police take 30 minutes to 2 hours on a non 911 call. All of this was between the hours of 10pm to 6am. All of this in a "hood" of 300 to 500 thousand dollar homes. In 7 years now I have figured out that if you are parked in a dead end at night you are up to no good.


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## Sway (Jan 31, 2006)

ugrey said:


> nc987, Can you say; drinking; dope smoking; fireworks at midnight; one wino, about 25 visits ; one prowler at one of my open windows while parked in the dead end (held at gunpoint for the police); vomit; used as an open urinal; used needles; used diapers; used "balloons"; boy and girl night wrestling; boy and ? night wrestling; party garbage dumped (can't leave it at home for mommy and daddy to find when they get home,go dump it down in the dead end street); 2 stolen cars, one set on fire; stolen city property dumped; assorted trash and a few gatherings that I could not figure out what in the wide world of sports was going on. The police take 30 minutes to 2 hours on a non 911 call. All of this was between the hours of 10pm to 6am. All of this in a "hood" of 300 to 500 thousand dollar homes. In 7 years now I have figured out that if you are parked in a dead end at night you are up to no good.



LightForce Blitz SL240 with a 11 cell NiMH pack. Why, because it sounds like you need a cannon 

Later
Kelly


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## nc987 (Jan 31, 2006)

> nc987, Can you say; drinking; dope smoking; fireworks at midnight; one wino, about 25 visits ; one prowler at one of my open windows while parked in the dead end (held at gunpoint for the police); vomit; used as an open urinal; used needles; used diapers; used "balloons"; boy and girl night wrestling; boy and ? night wrestling; party garbage dumped (can't leave it at home for mommy and daddy to find when they get home,go dump it down in the dead end street); 2 stolen cars, one set on fire; stolen city property dumped; assorted trash and a few gatherings that I could not figure out what in the wide world of sports was going on.



Im in college if that answers your question. We get all of that in one weekend around here. But this reminds me of a experience i had last summer. I go to a park that doesnt close until 10pm and its 9:15 to test out a SureFire 10x dominator. City worker pulls up as im opening my door with his headlights directly in my face and his little directional light aimed at my face telling me to leave. I told him the park closes in 45 mins and I would be gone in 10, and he told me to leave again. Thing that pissed me off was he wouldnt take his lights off of me, so I took my 10x dominator and lit him up. Should have seen the look on his face, classic.


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## bole64 (Feb 1, 2006)

Ok, i got some beam shots. I think this is the vector spotlight you are talking about. In the beam shots, the SF M6 is on top and the Vector is on the bottom. This is about 5 feet away at a white wall. (sry, bad cameara.) O, almost forgot, the m6 is using JS's M6-r pack with a MN-16 lamp, and the vectorlite is on it's highest output.


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## markdi (Feb 1, 2006)

I will take my 35 watt hid modded vector vec 126 bw over most of your modded mag lights.

3600 bulb lumens 4500 k color temp over 90 minutes runtime - bulb life measured in thousands of hours.
5.25 inch reflector glass lens fast run up ballast etc.

actually I really do want to acquire one of those beautiful mag hid's and a 700/900 lumen modded mag.

or a highly radioactive 3000 lumen 100 watt monster mag.

I would be out camping with my dad.
he would turn on his mag

I would turn on mine

his jaw would drop

I would say

wallmart d cells are just grand.


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## bwaites (Feb 1, 2006)

The MN16 is the LOLA.

Try the MN21!!

Bill


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## chevrofreak (Feb 1, 2006)

I looked at the Vector 1,000,000 candlepower spotlight at Target tonight, it says 585 lumens. The 2,000,000 say something like 1300 lumens, and the 3,000,000 says something like 2300 lumens


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## PoliceScannerMan (Feb 2, 2006)

powernoodle said:


> Nothing wrong with sitting in a parked car. But doing it at the end of a darkened dead end street indicates that they don't want to be seen. And its probably safe to say that people who don't want to be see are doing so for a reason. I'd blast 'em too.



I'm sure Mrs. Powernoodle wouldnt like that either, she would want you to "Thor" them for sure.


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## Pydpiper (Feb 4, 2006)

While working nights I often find a dark road to pull down, shut off the lights and catch up on paperwork, call my kids if it's not too late, surf the web..
If someone went out of their way to make my time less comfortable I would go to their door and greet them  .
1st rule, don't punish everyone for something someone did.
Having said that, I too placed my thor on parked cars on my road, but again, with the intent of confrontation. Around here in the country I end up with people dumping garbage on my country road.


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## lebox97 (Feb 4, 2006)

> ... I'd blast 'em too.


careful: some people may consider that blast of light an invite to return the blast! (with the kind of blast that involves a primer, propellant, and a projectile!) 
.


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## DigMe (Feb 4, 2006)

All previous comments and arguments aside, my Mag951 from Juancho is brighter and has better throw than my Coleman 1,000,000 candlepower light and I think it would be brighter than most of the 1mpc lights but would probably be outshined by most 2mcp lights. 

brad cook


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## ugrey (Feb 4, 2006)

Gentlemen, Thanks for all the replies. As always, I have learned a lot. I am now looking for a 2 Million candlepower spot light and I am saving my nickels and dimes for an M6. I mainly wanted to know how a SF M6 compared to something I knew and I had never read of one compared to a 1 million candle power spotlight.
I have always figured shining a light on someone in the dead end street at 11PM was nicer and safer, for them and me, than approaching them. They all seem to get the message or have a guilty conscience because they all seem to leave in a hurry. Those who are slow leaving usually seem to be putting their clothes back on. Oh yeah, during the day, I have had a few tell me its a public street. I agree with them, but tell them I have had all kinds of crime problems there, and that they look a little suspicious to me. I then tell them I am going to call the police and let the police come check them out. Nobody ever seems to want to wait around to meet the nice police man. I like meeting the police myself. I guess I dont feel too guilty about anything.


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