# its here !!!



## wquiles (Apr 22, 2007)

Of course, everything is filled with heavy "goop" (transport grease):






Somebody had said that only the Lathemaster machine had the hardened ways - not so. This is even more proof that it is the same identical machine:






Unlike the 7x12, the motor on this thing is pretty large:











The tool box had wrenches, belts, and the metal gears (which I will probably not use much since I am converting this to variable speed shortly):






This 8x12 thing is not just a few more inches than the 7x12. This is "much" larger in size and weight!. In both photos the tape measure is at 12" inches, and although it is hard to appreciate, the 8x12 is just a much beefier machine - the carriage, the thread screw, etc., everything seems/looks huge in comparison to my 7x12. I will try to do more side-by-side photos later on:











Everything looks in great shape except for this. This screw held the tailstock in place - it fell off on the way to my home, but nothing but a minor paint scratch resulted from it:






Here it waits until I can spend time on the conversion:


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## 3rd_shift (Apr 22, 2007)

OoooooOOOOHH!  
Whatcha goin' to do with it? :naughty:


Edit:


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## PEU (Apr 22, 2007)

Congrats!

now for the cleaning part arm yourself with gloves, brushes, gasoline and lots of patience 


Pablo


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## CLHC (Apr 22, 2007)

Hey now—That's a nice bench lathe!

Enjoy!


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## Nereus (Apr 23, 2007)

Congratulations!






I feel soooo jealous - in american way!


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## gadget_lover (Apr 23, 2007)

Oh Boy!

biggerbetterfaster!

Let us know how much of an improvement that is, OK?

Daniel


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## ICUDoc (Apr 23, 2007)

I have a high opinion of lathing!
Have yourself a LOT of fun!!
Congrats!


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## will (Apr 23, 2007)

PEU said:


> Congrats!
> 
> now for the cleaning part arm yourself with gloves, brushes, gasoline and lots of patience
> 
> ...



I have used gasoline in the past to clean up grease, It does work fast. I only used it outside, For any inside cleaning - I use kerosene, there are probably water based cleaners as well. 

The lathe I have suggests Mobil One oil and white lithium grease on the various parts. 

best of luck with the new toy - be careful, be safe...


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## yclo (Apr 23, 2007)

Don't forget, red goes faster!

I'll go back to the corner with my 4.5" x 9.75" Taig Micro Lathe...

-YC


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## MoonRise (Apr 23, 2007)

Congrats on the new lathe.

I'm sure that I had previously written something to the effect that the 8x12/14 lathe could eat the 7x lathes for lunch. Little lathe = 80 pounds or so, 8x lathe = 230 pounds or so. That's a BBBBBBIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGGGGG difference!

And your lathe has a "MOTOR", an AC electric motor to be specific. It does not have an 'engine'. The electric motor on the 8x lathe is -much- bigger than the motor on the typical 7x lathe, and AFAIK it is adequate for the lathe. But it still seems to be made with Chinese horses inside, and those Chinese horses are smaller than every other standard-sized horse(power) than in the rest of the world.


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## wquiles (Apr 24, 2007)

Thank you guys 

It is too bad that the motor is an AC motor. For my conversion I need a DC motor, either 90 or 180 volts (my controller can handle either one up to 2HP). I am following a couple on Ebay, from 1/2 HP to about 1HP, that is of course "true" horse power motors from Baldor, Leeson, and a few other well known brands  . I am trying to stay away from the treadmill motors since those are not TEFC and are not rated for continuous duty  

I am also putting a 6 inch independent 4-jaw chuck in this puppy, but I need to figure out the bolt pattern first at the spindle as I am considering making my own adapter "plate" right on the lathe itself. Does anyone know if it uses the same bolt pattern as my 7x12?

Will


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## matrixshaman (Apr 24, 2007)

Next - unless you have them - is just that one other little neccessity = $10,000 worth of bits and cutting tools etc. I'd like to have a lathe but I think I'd go nuts or go broke buying all the accessories needed.


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## modamag (Apr 25, 2007)

Will, congrats on the new toy/tool. I C you're trying to do the "correct" VFD. 2hp might be a little too much for the little guy. Heck even 1hp 220 AC is a bit much for him. But then again it's VFD.

As for your 4-Jaw adapter plate, it's not the same as the 7x12 TMK.
They're pretty easy to make if you have a face plate.
I have an extra one. I think :scratching head:
If you're interested drop me a PM.

If you still want to make it, let me know. I'll draw it up in couple days.


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## will (Apr 25, 2007)

Are you sitting down? Are you ready to cringe? 


I probably didn’t spend $10,000 for tooling, This is probably less than $75.00. I can do pretty much anything with this modest set of tools. The hex keys are hardened and with a little grinding make great boring bars. The small one in the front can be used for face grooves or boring small diameter holes. The internal threading tool is solid carbide (front right)

I work mostly with wood or aluminum, so I don’t need carbide bits, I use mainly tool steel and grind my own profiles. 

I worked as a machinist and learned a lot about tool making and grinding, even hand sharpening drill bits.


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## modamag (Apr 25, 2007)

will, grinding is for "real" machinist.
For the wantabe (eg. self), carbide is the way to go :hehe:


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## will (Apr 25, 2007)

modamag said:


> will, grinding is for "real" machinist.
> For the wantabe (eg. self), carbide is the way to go :hehe:


 I can get better relief angles with tool steel, that can result in a better machine finish. Here again - for aluminum and wood - this is fine, Now titanium and stainless that's another story...


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## gadget_lover (Apr 25, 2007)

Strictly speaking the "tooling", if restricted to bits and bars, is not too expensive. If you lump in the holders and other accessories, the price tag starts to climb. The cost climbs even quicker when you add in collets and chucks and DROs.


Daniel


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## will (Apr 25, 2007)

gadget_lover said:


> Strictly speaking the "tooling", if restricted to bits and bars, is not too expensive. If you lump in the holders and other accessories, the price tag starts to climb. The cost climbs even quicker when you add in collets and chucks and DROs.
> 
> 
> Daniel




that is very true..


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## kenster (Apr 25, 2007)

Congrats!  Very cool! :rock: I can see a few little differences compared to my Lathemaster but bassically the same Lathe it appears. Mine came with the same little tool box too but quite a bit less grease than yours to clean up. 

Ken


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## TranquillityBase (Apr 25, 2007)

Mr. Will, you're the lathe photos master, thanks for sharing...It looks to be a very nice machine, can't wait to see your VS upgrade.

TB


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## PEU (Apr 25, 2007)

will said:


> Are you sitting down? Are you ready to cringe?
> 
> 
> I probably didn’t spend $10,000 for tooling, This is probably less than $75.00. I can do pretty much anything with this modest set of tools. The hex keys are hardened and with a little grinding make great boring bars. The small one in the front can be used for face grooves or boring small diameter holes. The internal threading tool is solid carbide (front right)
> ...



Nice! nothing beats the experience!

The other day I went to the CNC shop that do my parts and instead of talking about stuff needed to be done, one of the machinists teached me how to properly sharp a tool, at least the fundamentals of it, it was a real eye opener. Of course this was AFTER I commited to a couple of carbide tool holders  

I didn't know allen wrenches could be used to make tools, thats interesting. But cobalt-steel blanks aren't that expensive, and I guess they keep the sharpness better.


Pablo


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## wquiles (Apr 26, 2007)

modamag said:


> Will, congrats on the new toy/tool. I C you're trying to do the "correct" VFD. 2hp might be a little too much for the little guy. Heck even 1hp 220 AC is a bit much for him. But then again it's VFD.
> 
> As for your 4-Jaw adapter plate, it's not the same as the 7x12 TMK.
> They're pretty easy to make if you have a face plate.
> ...



PM sent - thanks!

Will


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## wquiles (Jun 10, 2007)

OK, the process of getting the 8x12 to be Variable Speed started !!!

First I got a 110/220 DC controller, capable of up to 2 HP. I then got a new 180V TEFC Leeson motor of approx. 1HP - lets say that it is pretty "large"  . True, I only needed about a "true" 1/2 HP or so, but there is no harm in having a little more powerful motor as I can control the power rating right at the new controller by selecting the appropriate HP power resistor (just a large wattage sense resistor). Here is the new motor box right in front of my 7x12 mini-lathe:











Here is the motor next to the OEM motor in the 8x14:






Today I started the disassembly process - I mean, I have to figure out a way to put that large motor in the 8x12!:


























then take the "extra" pulley - which I should not need once I have variable speeds:






then the motor is off:






I don't know for sure until I try, but I am going to try to mount the new motor (somehow) to the same spot as the OEM motor:






Since my new motor has a larger shaft diameter than the OEM unit, I am planning on boring the OEM pulley and re-using it. Even though I will have variable speeds, keeping the pulley should give me 2 or 3 speed ranges - that might come handy later on:











Here is a side by side comparison. Note that the "cheapy" motor is rated at 550 watts, but the Leeson is rated at 750 watts. The Leeson motor is simply built like a tank!:











and again without the face plate (which I am not going to use to mount the new motor):
















I checked the hole alignment in the OEM motor vs. the Leeson - no luck. At least it is not going to be plug and play easy 
















Here is the "skeleton". Even without the motor and the extra pieces, it was so freaking heavy that I had to get my neighbor to help get it on top of the work bench - this thing is truly in a different league than my 7x12. Now my new lathe is ready to be cleaned, decreased, adjusted, etc.. Once I have all that done, I will then proceed to work on mounting the motor and wiring it to the new controller board. More fun to come!











Will


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## Mirage_Man (Jun 11, 2007)

Very cool Will! 

I'm interested in seeing how you're going to mount the motor.


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## DonShock (Jun 11, 2007)

Looking at that edge view of the two motor mounts, it would appear that you can remove the mount off the new motor. It looks like if you made the bends a little tighter, you could get it to be much closer to matching the width of the original motor mount. And then you could just drill an additional hole in the new mounts, the one to the right of the clamp in the picture, so that you could use the original tapped holes on the lathe.


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## kenster (Jun 11, 2007)

Will, you are having fun now!  The pics took quite a while for me to download with dialup but well worth the time. Great job! :twothumbs Well, so far anyway!  I really didn`t think you could get a 1HP in there but it sure looks like you are on the way to proving me wrong!  I would be a happy camper if you would share some info on exactly what and where for the parts. And I suppose, how much would it damage my wallet to try this on my Lathe???  The mounting bracket appears to be a little wimpy compared to the other but pictures can be somewhat decieving to judge this???? :shrug: You still got some hurdles but looking good so far. You mentioned leaving the pulley for extra slow speeds. Have you seen the speed reduction pulley LatheMaster has for the 8 x 14? I ordered one with my Lathe. Might fit yours and it is a 50% reduction. Here is a link if you feel like checking it out.

http://lathemaster.com/osc/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=313

Please keep posting the updates for this project with *plenty* of pictures! 

Ken


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## ICUDoc (Jun 11, 2007)

I am envious -that all looks like a lot of fun.
Can you fabricate a whole new mounting bracket for the Leeson?
I have no experience but it looks removeable....


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## Anglepoise (Jun 11, 2007)

Enjoyable reading. The motor is a life long investment and variable speed is the way to go. You will love it.

Like to see a pic of the controller when you have a minute.


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## will (Jun 11, 2007)

DonShock said:


> Looking at that edge view of the two motor mounts, it would appear that you can remove the mount off the new motor. It looks like if you made the bends a little tighter, you could get it to be much closer to matching the width of the original motor mount. And then you could just drill an additional hole in the new mounts, the one to the right of the clamp in the picture, so that you could use the original tapped holes on the lathe.




I would remove the mount and re-bend it to fit - then drill 2 holes to match the tapped holes in the lathe.


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## wquiles (Jun 11, 2007)

Thank you guys for the suggestions and encouragement. I will be trying some of these shortly :twothumbs




kenster said:


> I would be a happy camper if you would share some info on exactly what and where for the parts. And I suppose, how much would it damage my wallet to try this on my Lathe???


Motor: Brand new on Ebay: $49 + $22 s/h - talk about a "great" deal!. I waited for about 2-3 months until I found the right one at a great price 

Controller: KBMM Model 225D. Brand new on Ebay = $49 + $5 s/h. Same here, I searched for 3-4 months until I got one this cheap. Only thing to buy are two cheap fuses and a special (about $10) high power sense resistor to set the max. power in HP (or fractional HP). Here are photos of the actual controller (the two power ratings on the controller are for "as is", with no extra heat sink, and the higher range for when you have a larger, external heatsink, which is the direction I am headed regardless of the actual power usage - I am doing this one time, and I am doing it right, with extra margin!):















As you can see here, if I do things right, I should be able to install the new controller in the same place as the OEM switches go. Plus if I do things "really" well, I will mount the new controller and use the metal housing as an extended heat sink along with an external, large heat sink so that the controller will run cooler (longer life) - remember that I want my setup to support up to a true 1 HP  . I am also considering having a small fan to cool the controller board just like the one my mini-mill has - that sounds like a simple and neat idea  :









kenster said:


> Have you seen the speed reduction pulley LatheMaster has for the 8 x 14? I ordered one with my Lathe. Might fit yours and it is a 50% reduction. Here is a link if you feel like checking it out.


It is nice if you have the fixed speeds as in the OEM setup, but in my setup there would be no practical need to mechanically cut everything in half when the variable speed motor/controller will give you infinite control. 

To have "some" flexibility is why I am considering retaining the OEM pulley from the old motor - I can then by changing the belt position & tensioner change speed ranges depending on what I am doing. Still, with so much power in the new motor, even at a higher speed range, the new motor will still have massive amounts of torque at lower speeds, so the whole thing might be an overkill in flexibility. I am just doing it to have the flexibility even if I never need it 

Will


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## will (Jun 12, 2007)

OK - now the dumb question - Does your lathe have any plastic gears? Nylon gears? I will go out on a limb here - Most machines are made/designed with certain performance characteristics in mind. For example - a certain HP motor which will not tax all the gears and bearings in the lathe. Mine will start to stall if I am cutting too heavy, but nothing breaks. The stalling is like the warning track - slow down or take a smaller cut. 

My Mini-lathe has variable speed - that is great to have, just change the dial and off you go. My drill press has a series of pulleys to change speeds - a pain in the neck. 

Some years back I put a rather large engine in a car I was making into a street rod. - first to break - the original transmission, replaced with a heavy duty transmission, then the universals, then the axles - In short - I had to replace the entire drive train with something much heavier to take the extra power from the engine. I knew this going into the swap - so I was not surprised to break stuff..


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## modamag (Jun 12, 2007)

will, these HF 8x12 are metal gears. The HF 7x14 (minilathe) are nylon gears.

There are quite a few guys who put a 1hp VFD on these. The gear seems to handle it fine. Now the part I see most problematic is the spindle. If you don't take deep cuts I think it's fine.


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## will (Jun 12, 2007)

Mine has a series of nylon gears, there is a high/low speed lever which has a set of plastic gears ( these are the ones that PEU had to change ) Sometimes bigger is not always better. I would make the change just for the variable speed, that is just so much better.

The spindle? - or - the spindle bearings?


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## wquiles (Aug 4, 2007)

OK, I got some more work done yesterday, and I also got some new toys. As for the motor mount, I am finished. I was able to slightly bent the motor mount to fit in the 8x12 lathe, and I drilled 4 new wholes to match the motor mount:





I got some grade 8 steel bolts/hardware ready, so the mounting of the motor has been accomplished :thumbsup: :







Toy #1: Lathemaster, wedge-type, already-modified Quick Change Tool Post for the 8x12:






Toy #2: Boring head for my mini-mill:





which I quickly disassembled, cleaned, and lubed properly:






I of course put it to good use to bore the pulley from the old motor to use with my new 1HP motor:


















being that I am still a beginner I ended up a few mills larger than the target, but it should work well:






Do you guys have some ideas to cut the key slot in the pulley? I am doing it by hand a little bit at a time, but needless to say it is a very sloooow process :hairpull: :





Ideas/suggestions? 

Will


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## PEU (Aug 4, 2007)

My minilathe uses the same speed controller but in 220v version, its very nice. 
Follow their tune up sequence and you will have great performance. 
Over time I fixed it about 3 times, nothing difficult. If you search the web you will find the board schematics, at least I found them for my board.

There is a machine to do slots on gears, but it just automates the work you are doing by hand, so I cant give you a better advise...


Pablo


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## will (Aug 4, 2007)

To cut a slot for a keyway you have to 'broach' it. Best bet is to look that up. We used to do it manually, basically it's a square tool bit we used to put in a milling machine. ( unplug the machine ) then you just start to put a slot in by ramming the square bit up and down. You have to move the work into the tool a few thousands at a time. You are more or less scratching in the keyway.

Also - for an oversized hole - sometimes you can shrink it a bit. Get a steel ball larger than the hole - 1 1/2 -2 times the size of the hole. Smack it with a hammer, do both sides. what happens is that you are pressing the metal in. I don't think you will find that written up anywhere.


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## gadget_lover (Aug 5, 2007)

Broaching is often done with a press to push the broach through the piece. Some very complex holes are made by broaching. The hole in the lock that the key goes into is made by broaching.

You can buy broach sets for woodruff keys. One that looked interesting had a stepped cutter (about 8 inches long), a round insert to fit the hole in the gear (with a keyway) sized slot, and a set of spacers the same width as the broach. 

To use it you pop the insert into the hole, run the broach through the whole length (gouging a groove a few thousandths deep) , then put in an insert to push the broach further out and start again. A few passes and you have a nice consistent keyway.

I've thought about building a set for my own use, but have not gotten around to it.

I found a link to broach sets if you want to see how what I'm talking about.

http://www.jtsmach.com/jtswebshop/Pr_CuttingTools/BR021.asp#10


Daniel


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## Anglepoise (Aug 5, 2007)

One possibility is to use your lathe like a shaper.
Grip the pulley in your chuck,
Get your new toolpost set up and then custom make a tool. 

The idea is to hold the pulley stationary, and have the tool move left and right down the length of the carriage. If you take very small cuts and your tool is sharp, you will be surprised how quickly it goes.


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## bombelman (Aug 7, 2007)

Nice setup, Will !!


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## wquiles (Aug 10, 2007)

thread continues here: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=171871


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