# Can a flashlight scare off an agressive animal?



## KingGlamis (Jun 28, 2007)

I've read many times on here that good flashlights can temporarily blind a person that may be a threat to you. But what about animals? Anyone every hear of someone scaring off a bear or big cat or wolf, etc., using a bright flashlight? I would think it should work, just never heard of any stories like this. Anyone have any info?


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## knot (Jun 28, 2007)

Maybe one of those big HID lights - hell, it would scare me - or perhaps deer in headlight look.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 28, 2007)

This is one of the reasons I like the more powerful Incan or HID lights. I have scared off stray dogs, racoons, skunks, cats every time with my 800+ Bulb Lumen lights. They can't see squat, and while most nocturnal animals rely more on smell, this has been surprisingly effective. No idea with bear, wolf, etc. It's also possible that the sight/smell of a human is more responsible....but seeing how painful these lights are....I have to assume a similar reaction with many animals. One wild dog ran into a tree while retreating....apparently from being so blinded.


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## matrixshaman (Jun 28, 2007)

I wouldn't want to count on it but if you have nothing else it would certainly be worth a try. It's my feeling that if it's dark and you have a bright light to shine in an animals face he will have an instinctive fear of coming closer to that which it cannot see. A blinded animal or one which can't see what it intends to attack I believe would be less likely to approach because of the unknown but I'm sure that depends a lot also on that particular animals temperment. I scared off a huge raccoon (probably close to 70 pounds) one time as it was about to enter my RV which had the door open but a screen door closed. There was food, my cat and GF inside. Raccoons can be aggressive but probably not as much so as a bear, cougar and some other animals. It would probably help to hold the light up high as possible to while shining it right into their eyes. This will make you look much bigger to them. I would recommend if you are going to be in an area with dangerous animals to have other means of protection also.


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## KingGlamis (Jun 28, 2007)

Even though we go camping a lot I've never had the opportunity to try this. So it's got me curious, which is why I started this thread. My dog doesn't even flinch around flashlights, although I would never shine one at her eyes. I guess she is just used to them.

But it sure would be worth a try to light-up an agressive animal in the eyes rather than have to shoot it with a gun.


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## matrixshaman (Jun 28, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> This is one of the reasons I like the more powerful Incan or HID lights. I have scared off stray dogs, racoons, skunks, cats every time with my 800+ Bulb Lumen lights. They can't see squat, and while most nocturnal animals rely more on smell, this has been surprisingly effective. No idea with bear, wolf, etc. It's also possible that the sight/smell of a human is more responsible....but seeing how painful these lights are....I have to assume a similar reaction with many animals. One wild dog ran into a tree while retreating....apparently from being so blinded.



Well I guess that does it. I'm going to have to add one of our custom modders high powered flame throwers to my back pack. Adding now to the growing want list. C'mon Lux - you gotta buy my house with the underground eternally dark room so I can start buying lights again


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## ringzero (Jun 28, 2007)

KingGlamis said:


> But what about animals? Anyone every hear of someone scaring off a bear or big cat or wolf, etc., using a bright flashlight? I would think it should work, just never heard of any stories like this. Anyone have any info?





Smaller animals, maybe. Coons, possums, skunks, coyotes, foxes, etc. tend to freeze and just stare into my light. If I approach while making some noise, they usually will retreat.

Bigger animals, I doubt it. Black bears in areas where they often encounter humans may even be attracted by artificial lights. A CPF member from Alaska says the big bears up there are largely indifferent to flashlights. Dogs seem to experience little discomfort from bright lights shined into their eyes, even approaching to lick the flashlight lens.

None of the bigger animals requires the use of their vision to attack and maul you. If one decides to attack, a bright light isn't going to be more than a slight inconvenience to the animal.

.


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## knot (Jun 28, 2007)

Animals have a natural aversion to fire. Perhaps the creation of an artificial wooden torch in the same color temp and flicker will scare some animals. Nah, they probably sense the heat or lack of.


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## Toohotruk (Jun 28, 2007)

Actually, there's already an interesting thread with a similar subject:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/109849


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## souptree (Jun 28, 2007)

I have scared off a skunk with a raised tail using a SureFire M4. Of course, skunks prefer to run than to spray, and this one had a wide open space and an "enemy" that was more than happy to back away slowly and let it go any direction it liked -- provided it was away from the M4.


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## Blindasabat (Jun 28, 2007)

There was s story on Surefire's web site a while ago about a water buffalo being scared (not sure about the details) by one of their sub 100Lumen lights (IF I remember correctly, it was a while ago).


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## GreySave (Jun 28, 2007)

I think that many of us have had successful experiences with small animals. My XO3 kept a skunk moving in a desirable direction.....Away from me. 

But as others have stated, I would never EXPECT that it would work with any animal, especially one that can hurt you. I work with dogs and I can assure you that a dog that has rearranging your body parts on its mind is very unlikely to be persuaded by the output of most of the lights we normally carry. Now substitute a mountain lion or a bear for the dog and the risk increases proportionally. 

If you are in a situation where you could get hurt and there is a different viable alternative I would use that first and only use the flashlight if it was all you had left. If nothing else using it to deliver a jab to the eye of "whatever" might buy you a little time.


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## greenLED (Jun 28, 2007)

Small/medium and curious animals maybe. I'm not sure it'd work with a large and/or determined predator.


While in South Africa, we spotted a hyena outside our camp (no fencing). It would duck behind some fallen branches every time I shone my light in its direction. Whether that's an example of deterrence, or plain annoyance at a light being shined in its eyes I'll never know.


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## defusion (Jun 28, 2007)

most rural animals tend to be startled and freeze for a few seconds when you shine a light on them. making a noise will likely get them to retreat.
for larger animals, i don't know. we don't have any bears or other heavy predators around here, so never had the chance to try i suppose.

i wouldn't rely on it, but if i knew it was going in for the kill, i would definitely try it. i suggest something more convincing to stop them though. shotgun with some deer slugs, or heavy caliber rifle maybe.


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## souptree (Jun 28, 2007)

GreySave said:


> I can assure you that a dog that has rearranging your body parts on its mind is very unlikely to be persuaded by the output of most of the lights we normally carry. Now substitute a mountain lion or a bear for the dog and the risk increases proportionally.


I'm not interested in a light as a way to combat a charging animal, so much as in convincing it not to charge in the first place. If I come face to face with a larger predator on a dark trail and we are standing still staring at each other, it seems like putting a lot of light on it might help convince it to turn off the trail and head into the brush, or to allow me to back away slowly. It may decrease the likelihood it will identify me as prey. Prey usually doesn't output hundreds of lumens.

On the other hand, once an animal is charging me, blinding it will not be my first choice. If all I had was a light, I'd be a lot more likely to try to stab the bear in an eye with it.

In all cases, reducing the chance of an actual physical confrontation is the primary goal, and where I think use of lumens may have some benefit. Once there is actual physical engagement, lumen power seems to me to become nearly useless -- aside from hopefully letting me see where that eye is.

In any event, animals don't need to see to attack effectively. Most of the ones we worry about would beat us at hide and seek -- blind -- most of the time. Hiding AND seeking.

The best way to avoid being hurt in a fight is to avoid participating in it -- if you can.


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## Melkor (Jun 28, 2007)

I have heard of a few instances of a predator being scared off by a light. On a show called "Hunter and Hunted" on the National Geographic channel...they were recounting how some guys in Saskatchewan CA, were walking through the woods at night looking for their missing friend. They lit up some eyes, probably a wolf, and it ran off, or at least retreated back into the woods a ways. 

I should point out, though, that that wolf or one of its buddies (remember wolves are territorial, so you won't find a bunch of random wolves in an area) had already killed the missing guy, so they weren't hard up for food or anything (the guy's body was partially eaten when found) and wild animals don't just go around attacking people for no reason, so there wasn't much motivation for it to stick around. But most wolves have a natural fear of humans, so unless the wolf in question has lost its fear of humans, your mere presence would probably be effective.

And I read a story on Surefire's site about a few coyotes being scared off by an L1.

But on the other hand, I remember an incident in California where a cougar killed (and ate) one person, mauled another a few days later, and the cops went out looking for it in the darkness. From what I heard, the cougar wasn't particularly afraid of their flashlights. In fact, they made it sound like it may have been looking to make one of the cops its prey, but the cops had a thermal imager equipped chopper on their side. In another incident in Canada, a cougar attacked a young girl in broad daylight with numerous people around. I seriously doubt a flashlight would have been effective there. If you're wondering if the girl was okay, she was wearing a life preserver, which protected her neck from the bites and the girl's mom eventually managed to chase it off.

I don't know about jaguars. There aren't many in the US yet, but if cougars here and big cats in Africa are any indication, they probably won't be concerned with flashlights, either. Of course, cougars and jaguars are both stealthy ambush predators, so if they decide to attack you, you probably won't have a chance to use your flashlight. Better to have a knife.

All in all, I think it probably comes down to how familiar the animal is with humans. The more familiar it is, the less likely it is to be afraid.

And if you do happen to encounter a bear, be sure not to use a Pelican light.


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## f22shift (Jun 28, 2007)

so far no aggressive animals to test on for me. i did see a neighborhood cat. i shined the light in it's eyes, nothing. i put it on strobe, nothing either.
oh well.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 28, 2007)

I think most animals, especially the canine & bear families rely mostly on their sense of smell....it comes online wayyyy before they even open their eyes as a newborn. As such, I agree if an animal is charging as in looking for a meal, or protecting offspring.....you need a more effective form of protection such as pepper spray, taser, stun gun, or kill it dead gun.

I'm also giving my examples using like FM's custom Carley 43W 1500 BL type light that has ALWAYS driven away all those animals I encounter regularly. That was not true with skunks and several dogs when I only used my SF M4 (MN61), as it is not what I consider "painfully bright."

When I BRIEFLY WAVE my M4 at my own dog, he doesn't move. When I even more BRIEFLY wave my 1500L light, he ALWAYS turns his head to avert from it. (I gave him a treat for his contribution :kiss: ) 

Unless shows like National Geographic used a MaxaBeam to test animals reactions, the kind of lights I'm talking about in my post are not likely available for them to see these kinds of effects.


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## fieldops (Jun 28, 2007)

Interesting to see this again. I guess it's a continuing theme here. We were having our communications field day last weekend. I arrived home at 2am to find a coyote (big eastern ...not like the smaller western coyote) in the yard. He walked slowly towards me. I still had my 35w costco HID light with me. He really flinched when I lit him up. He turned away, stopped and then made a run for it. I could tell that this amount of light was probably painful for him to stare at. I would be hesitant to rely on lesser lights in this situation. Most of us don't carry a monster like this too often. 

Then again, this is CPF......maybe you do :thinking:


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 29, 2007)

Wait till I get my Maxabeam next week. The vermin will be vaporized where they stand! LOL! It's bad enough when a skunk sprays near your yard...but when they spray your dog. OMG!


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## KingGlamis (Jun 29, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> Wait till I get my Maxabeam next week. The vermin will be vaporized where they stand! LOL! It's bad enough when a skunk sprays near your yard...but when they spray your dog. OMG!


 
I feel your pain. While camping last summer our dog thought it would be a great idea to chase a skunk. The skunk won.


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## chesterqw (Jun 29, 2007)

useless against animals.

useful for the animal as they can see YOU better now.

unless you throw the light at the animal, the light is useless to scare off them.


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## KingGlamis (Jun 29, 2007)

chesterqw said:


> useless against animals.
> 
> useful for the animal as they can see YOU better now.
> 
> unless you throw the light at the animal, the light is useless to scare off them.


 
I disagree. If I am shining a bright light directly into the eyes of an animal, they will hardly be able to see anything except the light.


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## chesterqw (Jun 29, 2007)

yea, they will chase at the light source....

on second thought, maybe throwing a light at the AGGRESSIVE animal won't work out well.

i say, get a mag 6D and whack it.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 29, 2007)

chesterqw said:


> useless against animals.
> 
> useful for the animal as they can see YOU better now.
> 
> unless you throw the light at the animal, the light is useless to scare off them.



Maybe if you use some weenie LED light. Not true if you use a powerful 1500 BL or HID spotlight...they have all turned away as I posted earlier.


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## Esthan (Jun 29, 2007)

KingGlamis said:


> I've read many times on here that good flashlights can temporarily blind a person that may be a threat to you. But what about animals? Anyone every hear of someone scaring off a bear or big cat or wolf, etc., using a bright flashlight? I would think it should work, just never heard of any stories like this. Anyone have any info?




You are asking a very dangerous question, because some people might get 
a false idea of security after reading it, and eventually get them in deep 
trouble.

I've had the pleasure of playing with various flashlights in places where:
- Horses
- Cats
- Dogs: also Staffords a Pit Bulls
can be found.

My own statistic says: some close their eyes only, some show signs of 
curiosity, some go away or hide.

So I advise You to assume that:
*A FLASHLIGHT WILL NOT SCARE AN AGRESSIVE ANIMAL OFF.*

And to put some common sense in this topic:
- If You go into places where big cats/wolves/bears go: Take someone 
experienced with you - with a gun if this person finds it necessary.
- If You see a "dangerous animal" and have only a flashlight in hand. Go back
to where You came from. Animals have teeth and claws and know how
to use it.
- Most animals avoid getting themselves into trouble and will try to scare 
You off by their posture/gesture/sound. If those give You such a 
chance, take it.
- Animals rarely attack without a reason, so do not expect to go around 
a stone corner in the woods and find a blood thirsty wolf pack charging 
you blindly. 
- All those "True Stories" were written by those who had a fair amount of 
luck. Dead man tell no tale - not even to SF

And to give You examples:
1. Me, my friend and my stafford were playing hide an seek in the fields near
a school after midnight. Idea was simple.

My friend stays with my dog, I go away, and after 5 mins the dog is let 
loose and has to find me. One time a Security Guy came along with a 
thrower flashlight and started to look for the noise source. Than my 
stafford thought it was me, and started to run like hell to get his ussual 
reward for finding me. When the security guy illuminated my dog and it 
didn't stop. The guard turned around and run like hell to the gate. 
He didn't make it  and got badly licked by a happy stafford in several 
places 

2. Go to a place with barking dogs behind fences, than start making those
dogs irritated. When those are mad enough shine a flashlight at them:
*BUT NOT DIRECTLY IN THE EYES FOR THOSE HAVE DONE NOTHING
TO YOU AND THERE IS NO REASON TO HARM THEM...* 
The results should tell You enough.


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## TORCH_BOY (Jun 29, 2007)

It depends on the animal


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## Daniel_sk (Jun 29, 2007)

The worst scenario would be to meet a bear who is a flashaholic... oo:


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## DM51 (Jun 29, 2007)

This generally works quite well with elephants if they are being a nuisance.


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## Manzerick (Jun 29, 2007)

if ya can't blind them... throw the thing @ 'em!!!


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## pec50 (Jun 29, 2007)

If any animal approaches you in a manner atypical of its normal mannerisms, you might be dealing with a rabid animal. These animals are displaying an altered mental state and are therefore completely unpredictable. About 55000 people die each year from rabies; a high percentage of these deaths are canine related particularly where active vaccination programs are not enacted. So, unless you have a very positive means of defending yourself, present yourself in a manner that makes you appear as large as possible and, by all means, make a fast retreat.


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## Illum (Jun 29, 2007)

strobe function of LED in the dark might work

my G2 on fresh cells has no effect on German shepherds


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## Crash (Jun 29, 2007)

My S-W-A-G is it depends entirely on why the animal is being aggressive and how it views you on its food chain. If it works, we may read about it some day. If not, we'll probably NOT hear about it. I'd expect one of those obnoxious, hand-help air horns would work but if you're concerned remember you have to take responsibility for your own safety - whatever that may entail.


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## killforfood (Jun 30, 2007)

My own experience is that animals habituated to humans (like around campgrounds) will not at all be bothered by lights or humans.

I was in a small campground above Hell’s canyon blissfully sleeping in my tent when I was awakened by a Skunk devouring my buddy’s big pounder Hershey bar. I rolled over on my stomach and grabbed my 4D Mag light and with my nose to the screen started flashing the stinker right in the eyes thinking it would scare him away. Unfortunately this just seemed to make him curious and he tottered right over and started sniffing around my face through the screen. Even though he wasn’t the least bit aggressive it still scarred me to death thinking that he might spray so I just froze so as not to scare him. Eventually he lost interest in me and decided to go back and finish the Hershey bar. I figured I was better off to let him die of chocolate poisoning than to scare him into spraying.

On another occasion I was camped on the shores of lake Shasta. We had over 100 church kids to feed every day and had set up a kitchen off the side of a large rental truck. The Bears made their rounds every night banging open the steel lids on the dumpsters scattered throughout the campground and would also try to steel food from the kitchen area. Me and a couple other staffers took to sleeping on top of the rental truck listening for our tin can strings to wake us up each night. I can say that our flashlights never bothered them and we had to physically get down and chase them off. On one occasion a bear managed to make off with a whole case of Grandmas cookies. He sat down under a tree about a 100 yards away and buried his head in the box eating cardboard and all. About 4 of us tried to scare him off with flashlights, yelling throwing rocks and beating shovels on trees but he just sat there eating his cookies. We finally ran up and threw a bunch of water balloons at him and you’d of thought he’d been struck by lightning. I don’t recall who’s idea that was but from then on we slept with a whole dishpan by our side the rest of that summer and every bear that we broke water on instantly ran scared.

My experience with shining a light in the eyes of predators unaccustomed to humans is that,
Bobcats and Lion will often hold up a couple hundred yards out and stare and blink right into the beam. Coyotes will come in as long as you don’t shine it directly at them but will instantly run if hit with a bright spotlight. I have very little experience with bear at night but can say wild bear will generally bolt at the first sign of humans during daylight. I would not want meet a bear at night with anything less than a short barreled 12 gauge stoked with 3” slugs.


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 30, 2007)

TORCH_BOY said:


> It depends on the animal



And it depends on the lights. If testing was done with a 1500L or brighter light, then maybe opinions would have some validity.

I just verified again last night....two dogs behind a black iron fence with about 3" separation between "spokes" of fence. Had my 43W 1500L with 3" reflector that gives a nice hotspot. These were full sized Boxer and Golden Lab, and were barking like crazy when they heard me approaching but still out of view.

When I got close to them with my own dog in tow, I stood there for a full minute with no sign of them getting tired of aggressively barking and sticking their mouth through the fence gaps. I turned on my light and each of them turned away, stopped barking, and ran towards middle of their fenced in yard. I turned off the light, they charged back to the fence. Light on....dogs turned back and ran to middle. I repeated it a 3rd time, and moved on with more evidence of what a REAL light can do. 

Towards the end of the walk there was a skunk out who was sniffing and digging for grubs. Same deal...he beat feet in opposite direction ONLY when I shined my light. The fact that my dog was barking and trying to go after him made no difference whiile he was about 40 feet away from us.

I never said a REAL light would be adequate protection against an animal that was aggressively charging to protect territory, or get a meal. These are different scenarios....but some of these dogs have been aggressive....and if a charging dog kept coming at night, you can be sure I would smash him with full force of my 2-3D Maglite to protect myself and dog. Especially if it was a Pit Bull.


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## Secur1 (Jun 30, 2007)

I believe that a powerfull light ie 1500 plus lumens would deter any animal because it would cause physical pain to it by damaging it's eyes....
At any rate there are a lot of ifs and buts to this scenario. Best to leave any animal alone so it leaves you alone.


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## dyyys1 (Jun 30, 2007)

Secur1, what is that you're holding in your avatar? Whatever it is, it looks fun. :devil:


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## Gunner12 (Jul 1, 2007)

dyyys1 said:


> Secur1, what is that you're holding in your avatar? Whatever it is, it looks fun. :devil:


Oh oh oh, I can answer that,

It's a Megaray!

That'll definitely keep any normal animals at bay.


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## BB (Jul 1, 2007)

Secur1 said:


> I believe that a powerfull light ie 1500 plus lumens would deter any animal because it would cause physical pain to it by damaging it's eyes....



I am not sure that you can do that kind of damage with any "CPF Normal" light at much more than point blank range.

And, from what little I have read, eye damage from "bright light" does not hurt that much (many/any pain receptors in eyes?). If you are against a predator at night--after the "bear" swallows your light he is going to be hunting you with smell, sound, and taste.

If you were trying to damage eyes of a predator--a 100+mW green laser is probably going to do a better job (assuming that you can get a clean shot at the eyes).... But, I don't think it would slow one down much--and it is probably illegal to blind a bear/etc. with a laser anyway (and if there was no law--they would probably gin some other charges together for the same effect).

-Bill


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## grnamin (Jul 1, 2007)




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## LuxLuthor (Jul 1, 2007)

grnamin said:


> Pix



Ha...that is a great picture....now that reminds me of another story that happened last fall. My dog was barking like crazy in the backyard, and I went out and saw what I thought was a cat up in a tree. Went back inside and got my Mag85 (well one of my Mag85's), and there was a whole family of 5 racoons. Three babies and two adults....they were the cutest things.

Well I did not want them climbing down into my back yard with my dog around, so again got my 1500L 43W Mag, then also my BarnBurner, and with both of them, the little rascals climbed behind the trunk and farther up the tree to get away. If I turned it off, they came back around, started eating some leaves, then beat feet when light was back on.

After about 10 mins of this cat and mouse, the whole family followed a limb over to another tree, down the trunk, and ran away. It was pretty amazing, and nobody got hurt.


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## DM51 (Jul 1, 2007)

grnamin, that is a superb photo!


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## Leadfoot2 (Jul 1, 2007)

Well if if doesn't scare him off you could always


But the are certainly well lit for 


But then again, I'm not in the habit of being prey of 2 or 4 legged animals.



Leadfoot


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## the servents of twilight (Jul 1, 2007)

300 lumens won't.


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## DM51 (Jul 2, 2007)

Secur1 said:


> Best to leave any animal alone so it leaves you alone.


I fully agree with this, but problems can arise at night with elephants, which can be a great nuisance, as they usually go through things (thick scrub, tents etc) rather than bothering to go around them. They do this basically because they can, and furthermore they don’t really see why they shouldn’t. An elephant is not inconspicuous in a tent, and it is unusual for it to walk through one without leaving some indication that it has been there.


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