# just saw snake in my livingroom



## Linger (Jul 6, 2010)

Any colour (of Red, Green, Blue) that snakes can't see? so I could use coloured light and not spook it?
A few hours ago I was walking from my home office to the kitchen for some tea and I noticed something on the carpet. I turned my head to see a snake immediately crawl under the couch (snake maybe 2ft long, dark, not very thick - curtians were drawn and room was dark). Now there's a heatwave here so I was typing in my boxers with the A/C off, no shoes no gloves I didn't figure myself geared up for trapping unknown possibly posionous snake. I backed up a few steps and called my partner to come assist. Unfortunately she spent a bit of time getting boots and gloves on, and though I thought I had the snake quartered, after I got boots and gloves and started pulling apart the room piece by piece, we didn't find it.
I have zero snake experience. After looking all through stuff, again, and again, I did some googling and came across a few ideas for catching it. But I was wondering if there is any part of the spectrum snakes are blind too (my options are Red, Green, Blue emitters, and a yellow filter). Being a flashaholic I thought a coloured light would make waiting in silence hoping the snake moves over a noise trap a less draining experience.

The snake headed straight for the couch infront of an old fire-place cut-out: the solid cement block firewall has a section cut away where previous owners had a fireplace insert. Meaning the wall could have a breach. Given that the snake headed straight for the only place that there could be a breach in the wall, can I hope this was a one-off event and if the wall is properly sealed up, I can expect to not see the snake again?

All comments welcome,
Linger


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 6, 2010)

~

OOooohhh ...... I wouldn't sit on that couch for a while ............

Sneaky Snake may be living in it !


And get yourself a Mongoose for a pet .

~


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## weklund (Jul 6, 2010)

... Did it look like this? ...​ 
... This is a Friendly Canadian Garter. They Like Bugs ...​ 



 

... This is his Buddy the Coast Garter. He is in to Bugs as well ...​


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jul 7, 2010)

How about a gazillion jigawatt laser beam? 

I'm sure the CPF'ers who see this post can and will come up with a million more choice comments (though none so good as the Mongoose)... but my advice is:

GET THE H... OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND SLAY THAT BEAST!

(just noticed the time of the OP - are you still alive?)


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## Linger (Jul 7, 2010)

Dances with Flashlight said:


> GET THE H... OFF YOUR COMPUTER AND SLAY THAT BEAST!


heh, I posted ~3h after I saw it, used present tense in thread title b/c it was too confusing to say 'I saw a snake and then tried to catch it and then looked for it and then read up on them and then had some questions so now I'm posting here'


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 7, 2010)

~
Linger ,

Do you have a local Humane Society you can call for assistance and/or references to a snake rounder(upper) ?

Many times they know someone you can call . 

Till then I'd hang a hammok from a rafter to sleep in.

I wonder if a CarbonDioxide Fire extinguisher (that emits COLD gas & ice crystals) would kill a snake in it's tracks ? but not damage anything else .

Ha .... (do they make tracks ? )

~


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## Qoose (Jul 7, 2010)

I can't figure out where Kingston ON is. The first thing I would do is check if there are poisonous snakes in your area. Chances are it's a Garter Snake, harmless, barely bite, and are easy to shoo away. If it's one of those, don't worry about it, and just poke it with something till it leaves.

The first thing I thought when I saw the title was "hey, me too. it's my pet!"

Also, do not use a fire extinguisher. Chances are, if you have one of today, it's an ABC, which leave a nasty residue everywhere. If it actually is a CO2 model, then maybe, but it' still overkill.


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## Linger (Jul 7, 2010)

I'll defiantly be calling the humane society tomorrow, thank-you.

So there's no posionous snakes native to the area anymore (Kingston, Ontario is on the north east end of Lake Ontario, at terminus of St. Lawrence river and Rideau Canal), but unfortunately the snake didn't show me its passport so I've no-way of knowing if its an imported 'exotic' pet. I can say that in all the time I've spent in provincial and national parks, as well as my mother's 80acres of boreal forest, I've never come across a snake this large outside of captivity. Which strongly suggests its not native b/c I live in a city and cities aren't known for growing the largest snakes.

re: fire extinguishers: i've got an A/B/C, and I think a B/C, but better is a 6 pk of 'Dust Off' compressed air, inverted can sprays freezing liquid - but don't try that at home.


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## jzmtl (Jul 7, 2010)

I use inverted compressed air for no mess insect killing, but I wouldn't go near a snake with that thing, range is way too short and output is too low for anything bigger than a spider.


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## geepondy (Jul 7, 2010)

I've caught garter snakes before, I just grab them right behind the head. Or you can try to push them with a dustpan or something into a bucket.


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## tx101 (Jul 7, 2010)

Argggg .................. I would move out

Can't stand the things


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## hank (Jul 7, 2010)

Glad you're calling the humane society. Good choice.

Barring the unlikely chance it's an escaped exotic -- have you asked your neighbors if anyone's lost a pet snake? -- odds are it's a local that was hunting either insects or mice/rats, and it followed one in through the opening you describe. 

Most likely you need someone who can go look under the house along the chimney to find the rest of the opening and deal with that -- mice and rats would be using it to get into the house. You want to fix it first so animals can go _out_ but not back it, to avoid having something die inside your walls somewhere, which can be smelly for months.

2 feet long and not very thick -- is a tiny little snake, really. People mostly do not ever see snakes, especially the smaller ones that can just freeze and 'disappear'. I've been camped in big group camps for days or weeks at a time and had snake hunters come through and take two or three from right in camp that nobody had noticed (the snakes were just hiding and waiting for the people to go away!)


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 8, 2010)

Linger ,

I was hoping to to find out how your call to Humane Society went .

Were they able to help you ?

Any further snake news ?

~


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## kevelt (Jul 8, 2010)

That's very strange ... If you're livin in the city there's a good chance that it's a "pet snake" that escaped from a terrarium or the owner put it out somewhere. So I would be very careful and asking in the neighborhood is a good option because if someones's missing the snake you can make sure if it is dangerous or not.


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## TonyTDMD (Jul 8, 2010)

Some evening walkers found a pet snake out in the country here. A 20ft+ albino python. When the police came, there were actually two of them. Wow.


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## mrartillery (Jul 9, 2010)

Maybe you should call Billy the Exterminator.


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## Illum (Jul 9, 2010)

Snakes are cold blooded creatures...but that doesn't mean they don't suffer from overheating, the poor thing is probably as troubled as you are not being able to find a decent cool spot outdoors.

I once had a yellow rat snake just under 5 feet in the garage while it was close to 90F outside, so I did what any normal person would do and invited it into the house for a tour, the AC was off but the fan was on, so it was mild 80ish in the house. The first place it wanted to go after going in circles in the kitchen was under the bed of a guest bedroom. After awhile I prodded it out using a static duster I grabbed it and took him back to the garage where it proceeded to exit. I then took my laser thermometer and surveyed the house where the snake visited and found that under the bed the temperature is actually lower than the ambient room temperature by 2-3 degrees assuming all blinds in the room were open. Thanks to that snake I occasionally slept under my bed

Something tells me the fireplace cutout was improperly sealed and the snake either lives there or the draft is cool enough to entice the snake. Other than seeing IR snakes do have a decent sense of smell, but I'm not sure what a bug eating snake would look for in a house.


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## DM51 (Jul 9, 2010)

Illum said:


> I'm not sure what a bug eating snake would look for in a house


Just a wild guess, but maybe it is looking for bugs to eat?


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 10, 2010)

I would probably get one of my buddies to throw a grenade into the room just to make sure we got it. :thumbsup:


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 10, 2010)

~

Uhmm..... Does "Raid" make cyanide Bug Bombs ? ~~~~

~


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jul 10, 2010)

Poison Smoke Bombs :devil:


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## kitelights (Jul 21, 2010)

I don't know what snakes are indigenous to your area, but most snakes have very poor vision. They sense heat from their tongue and vibrations.

With a few exceptions, most are more afraid of you than you are of them and will only attack when threatened. 

If it headed under the sofa, the odds are that it retreated up IN the sofa. It doesn't take much of an opening for them to get in. 

I collected snakes as a kid and was pretty comfortable around them, but wouldn't want one loose in my house, especially not knowing what kind it is.

Do update us on your findings.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 21, 2010)

~

Uhmmm ...... no updates means .......


He hasn't had any findings yet ..........


or the snake found him FIRST !

~


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jul 21, 2010)

Might have sold the couch on E-bay.


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## Vesper (Jul 21, 2010)

Time to get a mongoose!


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## Linger (Jul 22, 2010)

Dances with Flashlight said:


> Might have sold the couch on E-bay.


Lol
The couch was well sealed. I rolled it over, checked the bottom and all around, the stiching is in-tact and it has no apparent opennings.

My constant searching for the snake led to another discovery - looking in the front door when I came home from the gym, I saw a mouse jump into a cupboard. My house is clean, uncluttered: though there is a loaded gear storage room in the basement (chemicals, tools, building supplies, diving gear, camping gear, climbing gear, etc...) it has no food in it, and we don't have tenants in our basement appartment presently so the rooms are squared away. This mouse must be new. Indeed, I found mouse droppings in the cursed cupboard, and in the oven drawer. This was no good at all, but it did lend weight to DM51's suggestion, perhaps the snake was just looking for food. Isn't a purposeful snake is better then a rogue snake? 
My partner and I went and bought mouse traps, and looked at the snake traps but were un-convinced. We did, however, splurge on these 'glue mats' that are supposed to trap whatever is moving near the baseboards.


After two house searches I figured I'd made my presence known: I left some quiet time for the snake to exit. Then (~7hours later) I foamed up the cracks through the cement blocks (the old fireplace), well and good sealed using an entire 'Great Stuff' can. I tried some portland on the other side, but didn't have the right mix and just went for enough to indicate if it was disturbed.
While cleaning the kitchen my partner saw the mouse scurry across the floor. The 2nd sighting.
We set the mouse traps (Victor Kwick Kill)
Nothing happened
I called a friend who's sister is a Researcher/Warden for the Ministry of wild things (snakes, bears, birds...i just can't recall her title) and went over the improbability of now finding a snake in a house - somehow the fact that the last place I'd ever expect to see one is in the middle of my livingroom doesn't mean that I'll be so lucky again. Apparently the best way is to trap them, enticing them out with warm bait. The preferred method is a freshly killed mouse, a snakes favourite meal.
[email protected] @! thud, tumble, scratch scratch
The Victor mouse trap, with a piece of extra old cheddar and a smear of peanut butter, caught a mouse near the cupboard. (Day 2 with mice.) In a snap the mouse went from pest to prized possession, and became bait itself for a snake trap. But despite leaving the whole side of the house in quiet darkness all evening and night, the warm fresh mouse gradually cooled, and by morning no snake and my partner threw the mouse out.

//Unfinished, but bed time, to be continued.


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## Illum (Jul 22, 2010)

Linger said:


> In a snap the mouse went from pest to prized possession, and became bait itself for a snake trap.



lol, I can't help but to laugh when I examine the mouse's status quo through out that statement


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## Monocrom (Jul 22, 2010)

DM51 said:


> Just a wild guess, but maybe it is looking for bugs to eat?


 
Best to invest in a can of Raid.


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## TedTheLed (Jul 24, 2010)

leave the snake alone...

Each year on May 10, the people of Springfield drive snakes to the center of town and beat them to death. The tradition appalls Lisa. Barry White arrives to begin festivities, but is disgusted when he discovers what the holiday is about. Bart finds out about the true origin of Whacking Day and suggests to Lisa that they lure the snakes to safety by playing music with a lot of bass and putting the stereo speakers to the ground. They get assistance from White who sings "Can't Get Enough of Your Love, Babe" attracting hundreds of snakes into the house.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 24, 2010)

~

I hope they bring you your Meds. , .............. SOON !

~


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## DimmerD (Jul 25, 2010)

Maybe a neighbors borrowed cat could help find it? 
I live in a largely wooded area and snakes can be a problem. My wife puts out moth balls all around the perimeter of the house and it keeps snakes and rodents and sometimes people away. I tease her sometimes and tell her I saw a snake eating the mothballs! Get them at a dollar store where they are cheap.


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## snakebite (Jul 25, 2010)

unless its a rattlesnake i wouldnt worry about it.
you have found the reason it came in.mice.
it will do your extermination for free if left alone.
probably a ratsnake of some sort.harmless unless you are a mouse!


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## TedTheLed (Jul 25, 2010)

..or buy the neighbors some Barry White records..

btw glue traps are CRUEL...!


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## JonN06 (Jul 25, 2010)

I don't necessarily think glue traps are all that cruel. It just sucks when you realize after setting them up how many insect/pests come across them. Then you are freaked out that they are everywhere. 

When I was a kid I used to go out and stomp on the ant hills with the neighbor girl. That was probably mildly cruel. However in my home, nothing I do is cruel to get rid of pests imho. Of course, I'm talking mainly spiders and other insects. Fortunately, I haven't ran into any snakes inside.


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## Monocrom (Jul 25, 2010)

Glue trap isn't going to do much for snakes as they'll just crawl off with the trap attached. As for rats and other rodents, they typically carry diseases. Glue traps work well. I can't feel sorry for a disease-carrying rodent that might endanger the health and Life of a child or an elderly person.


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## Illum (Jul 25, 2010)

Monocrom said:


> Glue trap isn't going to do much for snakes as they'll just crawl off with the trap attached.



I have yet to see that happening...by the way their scales work a snake steaming full speed on to a glue trap is going to have a hard time going anywhere.


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## TedTheLed (Jul 26, 2010)

because glue traps 'work' doesn't make them cruelty-free.
obviously it is the slowest death possible, ultimately from dehydration.
would you like to be stuck in a mass of glue for a few days while you died?
most of the disease danger comes from rat feces, and you'll have ALOT of rat crap spread around by the time mickey succumbs.

have some compassion and break their necks, unless you still get enjoyment from torturing animals.


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## Monocrom (Jul 26, 2010)

TedTheLed said:


> Have some compassion and break their necks, unless you still get enjoyment from torturing animals.


 
So far, no one has invented a more effective mouse trap than the glue trap. While I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I have been fortunate to rarely deal with rats invading my home. And the vast amount of my compassion is saved for children and elderly folks who have not been as fortunate as I have. It's mainly saved for those forced to live in slums while their penny-pinching bosses find ever more creative ways to screw them out of a decent wage.

But, I'm also an animal-lover. I just draw the line at a different spot than you do. Most folks would step on a **** roach with no feelings of supposed cruelty at all. The folks I bought my apartment from would let **** roaches crawl on their children. Looking back over the years, I should have called Child Protective Services on them. Point is, some folks draw the line at different levels. I see nothing wrong with using the most effective trap currently on the market for dealing with rats. 

However, yes; I agree with you that it's best to fold the trap once it has done its job, and put the rat out of its misery quickly.


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## Illum (Jul 26, 2010)

Monocrom said:


> But, I'm also an animal-lover. I just draw the line at a different spot than you do. Most folks would step on a **** roach with no feelings of supposed cruelty at all. The folks I bought my apartment from would let **** roaches crawl on their children. Looking back over the years, I should have called Child Protective Services on them.



hating house roaches is something that gets effectively passed down from one generation to another...and it maintained that status quo around here, but I play with wood roaches quite often as they seeming live in harmony with termites and what not in wood piles

for rats, the more humane ways would be those electric traps, seconded to mechanical devices similar to pigeon traps and stuff the rats, trap and all in a CO2 chamber. There are no humane way to kill a snake, other than probably pop it in the head


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## JonN06 (Jul 26, 2010)

Illum, while those traps you mention sound like they might work well. Some of those sound rather dangerous if someone has small children. If a child somehow comes across a glue trap you could get it off of them fairly easily. 

Maybe worth looking into for a single person or a couple without children...


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## Illum (Jul 26, 2010)

JonN06 said:


> Illum, while those traps you mention sound like they might work well. Some of those sound rather dangerous if someone has small children. If a child somehow comes across a glue trap you could get it off of them fairly easily.
> 
> Maybe worth looking into for a single person or a couple without children...




oh right, there involves children


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## TedTheLed (Jul 26, 2010)

If only they made a glue trap big enough for children.. just kidding.

if you happen to have kids or anyone with small arms and a child-like curiosity --

you can put the spring-trap in a BOX, with a little hole in it for mr rat.
see how that works?

and I tried the electric ones; they're aroud $60. , they didn't last long, developing shorts that required scrubbing, and they don't hurt humans, or cats (cats can't get in the tunnel -- though I suppose a kitten could)


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## hank (Jul 26, 2010)

> mothballs

Erm ... they used to be thought of as safe. 

http://www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/hlthef/naphthal.html


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## JonN06 (Jul 26, 2010)

I could see a small armed curious individual sticking their arm into the box... 

You could buy a shotgun, and just check the glue traps every half hour? :thinking:


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## TedTheLed (Jul 26, 2010)

..not if the hole is small enough..

..you did mean small-armed right? not small armed like in 'armed and dangerous' ?
this is an important distinction to make in order to be understood.

I mean, suppose you order a bowl of oatmeal with molasses,
and they brought you oatmeal with the furry hindquarters of a burrowing mammal? that would be bad.

same problem with hot dog buns...ya can't be too careful.


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## JonN06 (Jul 26, 2010)

I've seen rats wider than small children's arms. I was going for the actual arms of the children, not the armed and dangerous children. I think small children should only be shooting at things they can see, and not sticking their firearms into ratholes. That would be improper. 

However, I do agree with you on the hot dog buns and oatmeal. :thumbsup:


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## Illum (Jul 26, 2010)

JonN06 said:


> I could see a small armed curious individual sticking their arm into the box...
> 
> You could buy a shotgun, and just check the glue traps every half hour? :thinking:



you know the splatters flies and mosquitoes displace when they get zapped? A shotgun will not only amplify that a hundred fold, but your local flooring specialist will love to give you a quote on replacement slabs 


only place where I've tried glue traps was to smear some bananas in the middle and hang it up U shaped in the garage...you'd be amazed what you can catch on a hot summer day


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## Monocrom (Jul 26, 2010)

Come to the southern tip of Manhattan island, I'll show you rats that could easily devour Paris Hilton. Not her little tiny poodle that she carries around in her purse. The rats down there are far bigger than her pet. A family of rats could easily chase down Paris Hilton, and make a meal out of her. Ironically, there are some very opulant apartment buildings in that section of Manhattan. She's probably been down there a few times already.


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## TedTheLed (Jul 27, 2010)

judging by the satisfied grins on the rat's faces I'd assume she turned the tables on 'em.
devoured, indeed..


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## JonN06 (Jul 27, 2010)

Well I sure hope the OP took care of their snake problem. Any updates? Was the snake to be heard from or seen again?


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## Linger (Jul 28, 2010)

JonN06 said:


> I don't necessarily think glue traps are all that cruel. It just sucks when you realize after setting them up how many insect/pests come across them.



Well I've seen the glue trap work on a mouse.
(Quick re-cap, first mouse dead in a trap, no sign of snake.)
The next night while my g/f and I were strategizing in the office, the dastardly 2nd mouse attempted to infiltrate our meeting. The mouse was doing well, it had had penetrated security and managed to avoid both cheese and peanut butter traps in the kitchen to gain successful entry to the office where it hid under the computer (I have the tower raised for circulation). I was looking at my laptop, my partner had just turned around from the desk when, for reasons unknown, the mouse ran over her foot.
She yelled 'Snake!' and I set an un-modded [email protected] in motion towards her feet, but all we saw was a little tuft of fur running for cover. She quickly changed her I.D. to mouse and we tried to herd it out the sliding door but it ducked into the office closet instead. Stupid mouse.
This is the best, my partner said 'put the trap in there to kill it." How to explain to an excited woman that the traps are not offensive weapons, that traps need calm settings when the mouse is forraging, that there was no way this little suicide mouse was going to interupt her escape and evasion to stick her little neck out for a tasty treat.
We tried to catch the mouse with buckets and bins, but we did not.
We kept her pinned behind a book shelf, and brought out the sticky trap. And, to appease my partner, I brought the mouse trap out too. Bait trap was placed next to book shelf, glue trap between wall and back of computer desk along the mouses only exit route. And then my partner and I stood silent, waiting, waiting for the mouse to decide we'd left and that it was safe to emerge. A few short minutes and the mouse poked her nose out again, and crawled out from the bookshelf. As I suggested, the mouse didn't go for the bait, but very suprisingly, the mouse *walked up the mousetrap, onto and along the kill bar*, now she did not touch the bait or the trigger, but it was totally surreal to watch this mouse climb onto the trap and walk up along the kill bar, climbing down the far side of the trap and walk away. She climbed up the baseboard and avoided the glue trap. (I'm not sure what happened next, I shone a light or my partner moving in with a bucket, but the mouse changed direction and went back towards her hiding spot). Fleeing us, the mouse ran right onto the glue trap and got stuck.
Now I know the night before we'd put out the dead mouse, but with this live one I just couldn't do it. We talked about options for a while (killing the mouse, freezing the mouse, ignoring the mouse and leaving her for bait), and I eventually decided I'd release the mouse in a park.
To release the glue traps you add an oil...I had a bottle of olive oil that was a year old and I'd already replaced it with something fresher, so I sent this little mouse to the bottom of a bucket by pouring oil on the glue trap. I carried the mouse a few blocks to a big park and when I openned the lid, the little mouse (completely drenched in extra virgin olive oil) wasn't preening or cleaning her coat, but lapping up the oil from the sides of the bucket. I imagined her little bile gland working over-time trying to cope with all that oil, seemed happy though, anyways I dropped her in the park and walked home.

Since those two days, no mouse sightings. No mouse droppings, and I check the old places and pretty much everywhere I can think of to point a flash-light, no mouse droppings.



JonN06 said:


> I don't necessarily think glue traps are all that cruel. It just sucks when you realize after setting them up how many insect/pests come across them.


The new glue traps are sitting bare...no caught insects, mice, or snakes. See this was an aberation: my house is clean, the kitchen tidy, most dry food stored in pest proof containers. I do a lot of camping and know hygenic houskeeping is essential.
The mice traps are waiting patiently. I change out the bait on them every week (still old cheddar and organic crunchy peanut butter) and no takers.
No snake, no snake droppings, no sign of anything snake like. I still have the living room furniture moved out from the walls so I can check the perimiter.
At what point has this ceased to be a snake hunt and just reverted to normal flashaholism, with me rotating through different hotwires and custom multi-emitter leds; 'looking for snakes' ...or playing with fancy lights.

It's been fun, I totally wish I had a caught a snake, but now I've spent so much time looking i've grown confident its not here to be found. Well earned peace of mind or complacency?


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## JonN06 (Jul 28, 2010)

Linger said:


> It's been fun, I totally wish I had a caught a snake, but now I've spent so much time looking i've grown confident its not here to be found. Well earned peace of mind or complacency?



Ehh... It's probably gone by now. Who knows? Good job on the mouse catch. :twothumbs


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## Black Rose (Jul 28, 2010)

We had an issue late last year and early this year with mice.

Due to our neighbours, we ended up with mice in the attic. 
The landlord had an exterminator come by and put a gazillion bait packs up there to deal with them.

Well wouldn't you know that one of the little buggers managed to climb down the chimney structure and got into our basement.

Even though I'm not keen on killing anything, even a mouse, I put out a couple of those quick kill snap traps baited with peanut butter...nothing.

Tried Reeses peanut butter cups....nothing.

I remembered that I had a live trap in the shed and decided to try that. I put it in the basement with some peanut butter on the trigger. 

A couple of hours later I heard a rattling noise in the basement, and having forgotten that I put the live trap in there (C.R.A.F.T. disease ), opened the door to see that the doors of the live trap were closed and that I had finally caught the mouse after almost 2 months of trying to get it. 

It was kind of odd; as I was walking this mouse down the street at 1 AM, I was talking to the mouse and told it "You picked a really bad night to get caught buddy" - it was about -18C at the time.


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## TedTheLed (Jul 28, 2010)

..ling; they can't resist peanut butter, as described, your spring trap seems to be malfunctional. is it new or old and dirty and sticky and rusty..?

as for the oiled mouse, that's like spreading mint jelly on your sheep for the wolf! expect an influx of gourmet snakes! 

just kidding.


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jul 28, 2010)

I wonder if the search for this snake will really ever be over. Just maybe, having found a nice, hospitable place, he's gone back to the old homestead to pack up his family and bring them all over. And I once had a flashlight big enough for a snake to hide in...


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## TedTheLed (Jul 28, 2010)

let's hope it's a non-poisonous snake or else Linger will be looking for a more hospital place..


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## Linger (Jul 28, 2010)

TedTheLed said:


> your spring trap seems to be malfunctional. is it new or old and dirty and sticky and rusty..?


The Viktor Kwick Kill trap was brand new (well one day old: they came in a two-pack) and after the incident I did test it to release as expected. Maybe it was a Zen mouse. It was a surreal experience, because I _knew_ what was going to happen, it just didn't happen. I wish I had a picture of the mouse on the mousetrap bar to share.



Dances with Flashlight said:


> gone back to the old homestead to pack up his family and bring them all over.


:green:
The snake whooping sticks (brooms, poles for paint rollers, car snow brushes)are still pre-positioned near most doorways... I dare say I won't be caught with my pants down again.
I'ma gonna go make a special snake finding light, maybe a 12v lead-acid hand torch with a few high CRI emitters


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## JonN06 (Jul 28, 2010)

Maybe you need to buy of those arctic death ray lasers.


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## TedTheLed (Jul 28, 2010)

don't clobber 'em, grab him with a grocery store 'grabber' 'reacher' thing,
a wonderful tool to have around the house with many uses, especially if your back goes out ...
like this: http://www.arcoa.com/products-ezg.html


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## Black Rose (Jul 28, 2010)

TedTheLed said:


> let's hope it's a non-poisonous snake or else Linger will be looking for a more hospital place..


There are no native poisonous snakes in this region.

Garter snakes are the most common.


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## TedTheLed (Jul 29, 2010)

found this info; 

(btw, having a snake in your home in Ontario is illegal...sssss!)

(so long as you haven't heard a rattle I guess you're OK  )

http://www.scisnake.com/download/snakesreferenceguide.pdf 

"...Eastern Massasauga Rattlesnake: Ontario’s only venomous species, these are small snakes (to about 70
cm) with large dark blotches down the back and smaller blotches on the sides. Easily recognizable by the
segmented rattle on the tail, which is used to warn possible predators away if sitting still and relying on its
camoflage doesn’t work. This snake will bite in self-defense as a last resort, often not injecting venom.
They are usually found around Georgian Bay, where wetlands and rocky areas are nearby. Two small
remnant populations are located near Windsor (around Ojibway Prairie) and Port Colbourne (in Wainfleet
Bog). Massasaugas feed on mice, voles, and other small mammals. Like all rattlesnakes, massasaugas
give birth to live young, which are born with fully functional venom glands. They are designated as
threatened in Ontario, and are endangered throughout much of their range in the United States.

Fast Facts:
There have only been two human
deaths from rattlesnake bites in
Ontario- bee stings and lightning
strikes both kill more people
every year. The last death in
Ontario due to a bite from a
massasauga was 40 years ago.
On average, about four people
are bitten by rattlesnakes in
Ontario each year, usually on
their feet. Please wear shoes
and long pants when you’re in
rattlesnake habitat.
If you are bitten, don’t panic, but
do go to the hospital.
Rattlesnake’s Range:
Massasauga rattlesnakes
have been wiped out from
much of their historical
range in Ontario. Recovery
efforts are under way to help
ensure their survival.
Sadly, one snake species, the
Timber Rattlesnake has been
extirpated from Ontario. It
used to be found along the
Niagara escarpment. They
were largely eliminated by
the late 1800’s, and the last
one was seen in 1941 near
Niagara Falls.

Persecution: Snakes are often intentionally harassed or killed by people who mistakenly think they
are evil, scary, or simply useless. This is not only unwarranted and ecologically unsound, it is also illegal
in Ontario! Unfortunately, this doesn’t stop people, and many snakes are still killed every year. If we
could prevent the intentional persecution of snakes, it would go a long way towards conserving some
species. Education is the best tool to achieve this goal, along with enforcement of the law where possible.
Collection: Snakes are sometimes caught by people and taken home to be kept as pets. This is also
illegal, except under specific circumstances or permits allowed by law for scientific or educational
purposes.


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## Linger (Jul 29, 2010)

Black Rose said:


> There are no native poisonous snakes in this region.


This is totally true, and our prize for enduring cold winters. Sadly its no comfort, just like the blocked Arizona state immigration law, that snake didn't prove he was a legal resident of Ontario. Nor did I verify his native status card.

I was out in the woods last week, walking around my pond and swimming in the lake. I didn't see any snakes. How come the largest one I've ever seen was right in the center of where it wasn't supposed to be.



TedTheLed said:


> grab him with a grocery store 'grabber' 'reacher' thing,


My partner stole on the computer while I was making tea and started reading this thread (she never reads my forum)...she laughed pretty good at the EZ Grabber.


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jul 29, 2010)

CPF'ers respond to life's problems by modding:





​


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 29, 2010)

~

LMAO ...... that's a GOOD mod .


Grab it - hold it - shoot it - drop it out the window.

~


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## Monocrom (Jul 29, 2010)

Dances with Flashlight said:


> CPF'ers respond to life's problems by modding:


 
So what sort of modifications did you do to that red 2AA Mini-Maglite?


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## TedTheLed (Jul 29, 2010)

Dances with Flashlight said:


> CPF'ers respond to life's problems by modding:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't usually get a laugh out of gun pics on CPF, but this was an exception.

What also is funny is the 'method of use' different people project on the thing.

Gizmo's take on first picking up the varmint and dangling it in front of the barrel for the shot smacks of watching too many Elmer Fudd cartoons..

I thought one would shoot the vermin from a sporting distance, and then use the tongs to pick up the bloody mess
(and toss it in the neighbor's yard). 

but different strokes y' know?


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jul 29, 2010)

Just a little thought. When prepping this picture, I actually gave no thought at all to the disposal of the snake (which I hope is now living in some comfortable hole in the ground far from the earthquake-like tramping and thunderous yelling of giant humans). What I was thinking of was the idea of modding a light to add humorous capabilities to handle any possible contingency. To a CPF'er (as I see us), we don't mount a flashlight on a weapon - we mount a weapon on the light.


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## Canuke (Jul 30, 2010)

Qoose said:


> I can't figure out where Kingston ON is.



It's about an hour and a half drive up Interstate 81 from Syracuse NY, in Canada. It sits right where Lake Ontario narrows into the St. Lawrence River.

This story is funny to me, as my first encounter as a kid with any snake that wasn't a garter snake, was in cottage country near the Kingston/Thousand Islands area. I picked up a rock and was surprised to see a family of small brown mottled snakes living under it. They got out of there right quick, as did I.


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## Linger (Jul 30, 2010)

Do snakes fear strobe? I just looked through the 'Real Life Stories' on Surefire.com and didn't find any mention of it.

/OT

I appreciate that some of us are in a contest to illustrate their higher morality. I can join that and say, when I did use the glue trap in dispute, the mouse suffered no physical injury, psychological stress minimized by the use of soothing incandescent light. I did use extra virgin olive oil to get her safely off the glue, and she was relocated whilst I did a whistle a Brahms melody softly. I suggest the lack of shedding or stress related defecation indicative of the mild treatment.
Yes I'm being an ***, drawing animosity away from another and towards myself. But can I suggest that, debating which methods are most humane, we are to eachother bound by our compassion. Or at least in our attempts to make least unpleasant that which we may be obliged by duty to do.
To wit, it is our shared sense of decency that allows us to see the amount of violence we may do to a mouse as vastly disproportionate to the violence it may do us, and so desire to temper our methods for there is no sport in a slaughter.


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## TedTheLed (Jul 31, 2010)

I thought they FOUND that...

strobe? I'll check tonight. I have three rattle snakes warming up not 30 feet from my door. two femailes, I'm guessing, intertwined, and a big male a few feet away, on the side of the hill..

they have dozens of abandoned (I guess) squirrel, and gopher holes, and a meal in almost everyone, so they never go far from here..

I usedto scoop them up and drive them up Yerba Buena and dump them off the side of the road...but I don't do that anymore since my rat and mouse problems seem to have increased...
I just tell people where they are, and advise them to stay away..I also put a sort of metal 'frame' around their area, to remind people..the fram moves if the snakes move..

..oh and for the strobe, it'll be a Fenix TK-40...

oh, duh...problem is though, the snakes go underground as soon as the day cools off,, they won't be out in the dark!

I will TRY to flash them while they are still outside...


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## Illum (Jul 31, 2010)

if they found it the thread wouldn't still be open. 
While my advices are not necessarily welcome, I'll still make a couple suggestions here. Snakes generally hunt in the evenings, at least yellow rat snakes do. Certain garters and indigos can be seen traveling predawn or late in the evening. Rarely do you find them in broad daylight unless they were forcefully evicted out of their burrow/tree by paranoid human neighbors. 

Trying to find a snake in a house can sometimes be as frustrating as trying to find a cricket in a wet and hot crawspace with a 3' ceiling...but knowing certain key facts will make your search easier. 

Snakes like to have some cover or shade where they travel, they are very human the the ways we see landscaping. Imagine the inside of your house as a backyard. Snakes will typically craw along walls or shrubs. Look under and behind every object in a room, including and especially appliances that could radiate heat [standalone ovens, water heater, refridgerator].

Like cats, snakes typically get more fun out of boxes than whatever the box contained. I speculate snakes like boxes because it makes them feel secure in a cramped space, as on occiasion I would find an orange or grey coil snoozing in my compost bin and couldn't figure out how it got in. Apparently snakes like anything resembling a cave, but strangely no accessories made for snakes in petshops resemble caves.:shakehead For you snake owners, toss in a pair of leather shoes or galoshes and see if they like to live in it. Some pet snakes do while others prefer the corner. 

Sometimes to find an animal you'll have to have the mind of one. Make sure the gf's at work and the misses is away, then take off your shirt and crawl on your belly around the room. Imagine you have no idea where you are, it does not smell familiar nor does it appear welcome. You have the ability to flatten yourself to hide behind book cases, TVs, toilets cisterns, etc. Then imagine the need to find a heat source to maintain your body temperature, but not so high that it will kill you. With all this in mind now wiggle yourself around the house and it should give you some idea where to look. If your lucky enough the place you would prefer to hide under happens to be the same place Fred, Pales, or Newton happen to be dwelling under, then you've got it set

If not...you'll have to set up traps 

You have to admit, snakes live a hard life, just like spiders...overworked, underappreciated, often misunderstood as pests, and always mistaken as poisonous


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## Dances with Flashlight (Jul 31, 2010)

Illum said:


> Make sure the gf's at work and the misses is away, then take off your shirt and crawl on your belly around the room. Imagine you have no idea where you are, it does not smell familiar nor does it appear welcome. You have the ability to flatten yourself to hide behind book cases, TVs, toilets cisterns, etc. Then imagine the need to find a heat source to maintain your body temperature, but not so high that it will kill you. With all this in mind now wiggle yourself around the house and it should give you some idea where to look. If your lucky enough the place you would prefer to hide under happens to be the same place Fred, Pales, or Newton happen to be dwelling under, then you've got it set



If Linger does this, we'll have another mystery to solve.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 1, 2010)

Linger said:


> ..she laughed pretty good at the EZ Grabber.



That site has another uber product called the "Poultry Picker" here. It describes:



> "Pick Up More Chicks In Less Time" and save your back in the process with the E-Z Reacher®, the ultimate Poultry Picker. It's the E-Z, sanitary and quick way *to pick up dead birds and droppings * without using your hands. *Stray eggs in the chicken coop? *No problem. Just a light squeeze of the E-Z Reacher's handle and the non-slip rubber gripper cups pick it up without a crack. *Hundreds of dead chicks to cull? Do it safely and securely with the E-Z Reacher and a five gallon bucket.*...*Grasp and hold weaklings and culls for removal*


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## TedTheLed (Aug 1, 2010)

eeeeww.... so, that would certainly explain the visit from the FDA..

just dropped by for the snake report: they split!

checked their position once that day, an hour later they were gone.

probably underground, possibly having dozens of baby snakes..,will keep you posted.

about snake schedules; don't assume snake behavior in Florida will be the same all over the nation. snakes may lie in wait for food, or they may prowl. they will do it when they are hungry and not too cold. if they are going to prowl it will be when the temperature is to their liking, 80-88F or so..if it gets hotter they seek shade. if it is much cooler, they look for warmth and safety underground.

...oh, and nothing makes you more able to think like a snake than swallowing a rat whole..head first now, don't want anyone choking on a rat's assssss.


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## smokinbasser (Aug 1, 2010)

I am not a snake lover or even a snake tolerator. I have a 28 inch machete about 3 feet behind me and a 12 gauge by the bed and I would rather have shotgun damage to the house than to have a ssssnake cohabitating my home. I am moving to one of the states with rattlesnake roundups and wish all the roundup teams the best of luck. I was stationed on an island that had cobras and several other poisonous snakes about and I did not sleep all that sound with that knowledge.


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## TedTheLed (Aug 1, 2010)

---?

smokinbasser I'm surprised at you. with a name like that I thought you'd be cooler.
hey didn't you here what Barry White said?

btw, have you heard? the rattlesnakes where they have those snake round-ups have evolved at an incredibly high rate of speed (this is no joke - you can look it up) -- that is their venom has become more potent in a time span of less than fifty years, something which should take at least a few hundred years to occur. the venom has become more toxic by evolving into a neurotoxin, not just a hemotoxin. that is, the venom has gone from attacking the blood to also attacking the nervous system, like cobra venom. or coral snake venom.
also, due to the rattlesnake round-up, and this may have something to do with the reason for the venom formulation change, the snakes that are being left behind are the ones that don't give a warning rattle -- and the ones that agressively attack -- the ones that are easy to find and catch are being foud and caught -- leaving the "pit bulls" behind to breed their bad tempers and evidently worse venom..


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## somename (Aug 2, 2010)

TedTheLed said:


> ---?
> the rattlesnakes where they have those snake round-ups have evolved at an incredibly high rate of speed (this is no joke - you can look it up) --
> 
> the snakes that are being left behind are the ones that don't give a warning rattle -- and the ones that agressively attack -- the ones that are easy to find and catch are being foud and caught -- leaving the "pit bulls" behind to breed their bad tempers and evidently worse venom..


 
I do not believe this information. The town my wife, her parents and her grandparents grew up in has been hosting the worlds largest Rattlesnake round-up for over 50 years. This was started originally because there were so many snakes around the population was out of control. As the years went on the snake population has decreased dramatically, but it is by no means too low. The last 2 years the total amount of snakes has been between 4,000 pounds and 8,000 pounds.

They do still rattle and their venom has not evolved rapidly. There are always cases where the snake handlers (many times demonstrating) will take a hit, but these are also the same people who have done this so long they don't even take anti-venom. If there was a sudden change in the venom, the anti-venoms would be always necessary and would possibly not work from the past years.

I had hunted rattlers around my property when I was young and never saw any changes in their behavior as far as not rattling.

Just thought I'd leave my .02 cents since this sort of stuff is how myths start.


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## TedTheLed (Aug 3, 2010)

this is called 'anecdotal evidence' -- and it's medically worthless. and is where most myths really start.

did you bother doing any research before dismissing my post? I think not or you would have found this silly stuff some molecular biologists dreamed up;

The numbers of nucleotide substitutions per non-synonymous site (KA) values were close to or larger than the KS values for the protein-coding regions in venom gland PLA2 isozyme genes, indicating that the protein-coding regions of snake venom gland PLA2 isozyme genes have evolved via accelerated evolution. Furthermore, the evolutionary trees derived from the combined sequences of the 5' and 3' UTRs and the signal peptide domain of cDNAs were in accord with the consequences from taxonomy. In contrast, the evolutionary trees from the mature protein-coding region sequences of cDNAs and from the amino acid sequences showed random patterns. Estimations of nucleotide divergence of genes and the phylogenetic analysis reveal that snake venom group IJ PLA2 isozyme genes have been evolving under adaptive pressure to acquire new physiological activities.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9027978

Recent studies have shown that Rattlesnakes are becoming more and more venomous as time goes on, their poison is becoming more potent and more toxic, scientists are unsure why this is occurring. For anyone interested in the press release of this information check out... 

Rattlesnake Bites Becoming More Dangerous 
By Cara Liu
CBS 5
PHOENIX (April 29, 2008) -- More than a half-dozen people have been bitten by rattlesnakes in the last two weeks, and doctors are now warning that the venom is becoming more poisonous...

http://www.bannerhealth.com/About+U...Rattlesnake+Bites+Becoming+More+Dangerous.htm

...Valley doctors are starting to see more patients becoming critically ill after rattlesnake bites, compared to just a few years ago.

http://www.kpho.com/news/16008917/detail.html

Rattlesnake Bites Becoming More Dangerous
POSTED: 10:24 am MST April 26, 2008
PHOENIX -- More than a half-dozen people have been bitten by rattlesnakes in the last two weeks, and doctors are now warning that the venom is becoming more poisonous

Rattlesnake Round-Ups 
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A Rattlesnake Round-Up is a barbaric, rodeo-like event common to rural areas of the United States, including Texas, Georgia and the Midwest, where, rather than bovines, rattlesnakes are the primary animal attraction. The largest of the several Rattlesnake Round-Up events is in Sweetwater, Texas. Held every year since 1958, the event currently attracts approximately 35,000 visitors per year and results in the capture of 1% of the state's rattlesnake population.[1] Some of the rattlesnakes are cooked and eaten at the event.

These events have been criticized widely, primarily due to animal cruelty and ecological impact[2]. Though these events sometimes claim to generate valuable data, no scientific articles have been published from them.

Rattlesnakes are relatively slow to mature, have only modest litters, and are already adversely affected by habitat destruction and persecution. These events remove thousands of animals, including large numbers of reproductively mature animals. Since rattlesnakes are an apex predator, a sudden decline in their population could have ecological consequences, particularly for the rodents on which they typically feed.


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## somename (Aug 3, 2010)

"Anecdotal evidence is often used in place of clinical or scientific evidence, and may completely ignore research or harder evidence that points to an opposite conclusion."

-- So basically this evidence may involve no real research or ignore research that points contrary to the desired results. Sounds like these links show a lot of that.

Your scientific report involving snake venom group " IJ PLA2 " states the batch has been evolving under adaptive pressure to acquire new physiological activities. This report says nothing about the environment the snakes were subjected to and for how long nor does it mention the rate of change. 
 
Not only that, the report is from 1996 Nov-Dec;34
They may have been comparing venom from 1800, 1900 or who knows when. Of course venom may show some gradual changes over many years but tests are worthless if more information is not given concerning the details of the tests. After all if the tests were over venom from a month or a week, now 14 years later we'd have super venoms where no one could get to a hospital in time.

The two news reports are at least more recent, but none the less they are news reports and the news must keep ratings up with more viewers.

There is some possibility to the Arizona incidents though. Arizona does has the Mojave rattlesnake which has venom that is more dangerous than the Western Diamondback. Also there has been mention of a subspecies where hybrids can have both venom types. This is due to combining venom attributes though, not one venom rapidly evolving.

http://www.gorp.com/weekend-guide/travel-ta-snake-bite-faq-sidwcmdev_053471.html
_"*One other note on the Mojave:* There is a central Arizona version which can be considered a subspecies. The principal difference between it and its more widely distributed cousins is that its venom is very similar to diamondback venom. This therefore makes it less dangerous than other Mojaves. There are also hybrids which have components from both venom types. Hybrids present the particular danger of a local reaction which may fool victims and medical personnel into believing the culprit was some other rattler until the systemic reaction due to neurotoxin sets in later. Even experts can't tell the difference between different varieties of Mojave except by analyzing the venom."_

So, take a diamondback hybrid that has venom attributes from a Mojave where neurotoxins are present and presto. A diamondback that basically has the bite of a Mojave in disguish. Maybe the group in the news from Arizona was struck by a hybrid diamondback and they should have treated the bite like a Mojave; after all the only way to tell is "by analyzing the venom".

Mojaves are not common in west Texas so the "barbaric" :laughing: roundup is not going to cause all the diamondbacks to suddenly contain Mojave venom neurotoxins.

I think it is interesting the Wikipedia on the rattlesnake roundup is described as barbaric. Obviously not someone who needs to be making this encyclopedia citation.
Guess I should get Billy Bob down the street to describe it better and make it sound more enjoyable . 
Since it is so 'barbaric' and 'cruel' to take a machete to the poor snakes and make belts and smoke the meat; we can just dump the pit in the back yard of the person who made the citation and let them deal with them.

This may only be 1% of the rattlesnakes in TX, but all that means is there is a LOT of rattlesnake here, not to mention TX is a very large state comparted to many so there are bound to be a lot here in their perfect climate.


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## TedTheLed (Aug 3, 2010)

ok you believe in the anecdotal evidence, I'll rely on the hard evidence of scientific research..as far as I know there wasn't much molecular biology
going on in 1800...

"..In population genetics, the founder effect is the loss of genetic variation that occurs when a new population is established by a very small number of individuals from a larger population. It was first fully outlined by Ernst Mayr in 1952,[1] using existing theoretical work by those such as Sewall Wright.[2] As a result of the loss of genetic variation, the new population may be distinctively different, both genetically and phenotypically, from the parent population from which it is derived. In extreme cases, the founder effect is thought to lead to the speciation and subsequent evolution of NEW SPECIES.

..so; new species come from lack of a larger gene pool.
this can occur due to isolation of a population, and/or the decimation of it's gene pool..."


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## JonN06 (Aug 4, 2010)

This thread is still going . I'm not going to go out of my way to round up or hunt down rattlesnakes :shakehead, but if a rattlesnake ever bites me it will surely die.

Oh yeah, any updates linger?


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## Illum (Aug 4, 2010)

unsuscribed, how did a grass snake discussion go into becoming a rattlesnake discussion? 

First we began [analogously] with description of a concerned owner losing his tricycle and 80 posts later the certral topic of the discussion becomes a dispute betweeh interpretations of a stolen diesel locomotive:shrug:


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## TedTheLed (Aug 4, 2010)

there was no tricycle , similarly, no grass snake.

nor do we know t'was not a rattlesnake.

to associate, transcend, compare contrast, such is human mind.


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## TooManyGizmos (Aug 4, 2010)

NEWS FLASH 


The "Snake" has since DIED .... due to mal-nourishment .......


cause Linger killed all the mice in it's feeding zone .

either that ........ or the rest of you have BEAT it to death 

:laughing:


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## somename (Aug 4, 2010)

TooManyGizmos said:


> NEWS FLASH
> 
> 
> The "Snake" has since DIED .... due to mal-nourishment .......
> ...


 
No joke, can we move this on to the OP and get back on topic here. 

And Ted, I do not believe in anecdotal evidence. I want hard facts. If you read my post you would see I was pointing out the lack of information present in the links that were provided. 

I am open to new information on snakes and other venomous species that I may run into, but I want facts; not a 14 year old report with no follow up research. I want details pertaining to the methodology of the tests and how long the tests were conducted since this is comparing venom change over a period of time. 
I question what period of time it took for the venom to show any changes because that information was not provided.

I am not saying their test sample was from 1800, it was just to make a point that the abstract on the research report does not point out the sample period for the venom being compared.

If I tell you my 1/2 ton truck get 40mpg and show you the dash board readout to prove it, you may think wow that truck has great gas mileage. However, if I fail to mention I drove the truck down hill to get those values, then my test is not valid because the test was not on flat ground. This is just an example of why you must know the details of how tests were conducted.



TedTheLed; said:


> so; new species come from lack of a larger gene pool.
> this can occur due to isolation of a population, and/or the decimation of it's gene pool...


 
So even if the venom does evolve, it is in a lab environment like in the research study you mentioned, but will not likely happen in nature due to the population not being isolated.

OK.. now back to the snake in the living room. 
Assuming it is not venomous because it would be risky, I bet a dog would pick up on the scent of the snake and be able to locate it assuming it is still around in the house. You stand by with just in case.

Hope you get rid of the snake, I'm moving on to see what is going on with flashlights now.


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## TedTheLed (Aug 4, 2010)

somename, I provided some new information, and supported it with facts.
If you don't want to see them, that's your choice.
It's not my job to convince you or do research for you -- you can do that yourself, you have a computer and google in front of you. I provided samples of the kind of research going on 'out there' and the kind of information that is available if you would look with open eyes, but.. though you say you are 'open to the facts', you don't spend a moment looking for them..

:tired: ..bye.


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## Empath (Aug 4, 2010)

The participants of the tangential topic that has evolved seem to be talking to one another, rather than carrying on a discussion with the group.

Should the OP need to convey meaningful information, he can feel free to start a new thread.

Should the participants of the back and forth personal discourse wish to discuss a topic with all of us, they can start a meaningful new thread.

This one's done.


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