# led lenser t7



## dban (Feb 13, 2009)

for a beginner here....would the led lenser t7 from lowes at $65ish be the same as the led lenser t7 from brightguy.com eg for $100ish?


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## euroken (Feb 13, 2009)

I believe there are the same. I don't believe there are different generations of T7...unless there are fakes out there 

I purchased mine through UKsite for total with s&h for $70 that included a free Lenser K3. 

From what I've heard, $65 seems to be great price in US.


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## Egsise (Feb 13, 2009)

There are better deals in that 65-100$ price range you know.
UNLESS you really really need that speed focusing thingy.


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## dban (Feb 13, 2009)

with the focus it seems like it would throw a nice tight beam. anything else do that (65-100 $ range)? need focused tight beam, like a spotlight not a wide angle thing.


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## Gunner12 (Feb 13, 2009)

How much throw do you need?
What kind of build quality?
What batteries?

There are some budget throwers that can throw pretty far, but they might be larger and run on CR123s or 18650s.

:welcome:


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## dban (Feb 13, 2009)

batteries - i like aa or aaa due to the convenience factor, can get them anywhere anytime. could live with cr123.

build quality - would use for work so sturdy is good.

weight - carry in a work bag so lightweight is good.

throw - want a nice tight and bright beam at 25m for sure. don't want the scatter. don't want/need to spread the light around. 100+m would be ideal.

not concerned about run time. used only for 3-5 minutes at a time, once per day maybe.

thanks for helping out a new guy.


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## Gunner12 (Feb 14, 2009)

25m is pretty easy for most lights discussed here. 100m is more of a problem but still doable with many lights discussed here. But if you don't want spill at all, then that cuts down the selection a lot. Is not having spill a personal preference or necessary for you job? Would the light be used in darkness or in relatively bright light? How much abuse will the light see?

IMO 3AAA and 4AAA lights are not that good mainly because of the lack of regulation and how hard the AAA batteries are pushed. Alkaline AAA batteries(the only ones LedLenser recommends) aren't meant to stand up the high current draw that the LEDs need so they drop in capacity and voltage pretty quickly. This means that the light on the higher modes will drop in output relatively quickly. Also the 130 hour runtime is probably till the flashlight stops producing light. But that doesn't seem to be a problem since you won't use the light often.

The LedLenser might work for your task since it has virtually no spill at full focus. The Ultrafire 007 recoil might work too but I'm not sure how good the quality is(for what I hear decent-good quality) and it uses CR123 batteries. The rechargeable CR123s can be used too along with the 18650 Li-ion battery.


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## L.E.D. (Feb 14, 2009)

Gunner12 said:


> IMO 3AAA and 4AAA lights are not that good mainly because of the lack of regulation and how hard the AAA batteries are pushed. Alkaline AAA batteries(the only ones LedLenser recommends) aren't meant to stand up the high current draw that the LEDs need so they drop in capacity and voltage pretty quickly. This means that the light on the higher modes will drop in output relatively quickly.



Actually, the extra cell in there providing the 6 volts gives a decent runtime curve, a far departure from the literal exponential initial drop of older LED Lenser offerings. The P7 will still have 50% of it's initial output after and hour and 20 minutes, on the high mode (not turbo-momentary). It actually holds it's brightness better than some flashlights that DO have circuitry in them (Inova Radiant 2AA for example)
P7 review w/ runtime graphs: http://www.messerforum.net/showpost.php?p=504265&postcount=13
Inova Radiant AA review w/ graph: http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/inova_radiant_aa.htm
I think the T7 should be perfect for what you are looking for, compact, great build quality, extreme durability (a CPF member has dropped one of these around 75 feet onto rocks during caving, it lit up just like new, RIDICULOUSLY IMPRESSIVE imo, probably because there is no circuit board to break hahaha), tight bright beam with no spill, and you still have the option for a low mode as well as a flood, should you ever need them. Also, it's waterproof at a depth of 1 meter for 10 minutes. Everything else except the head is waterproof, and the head will still easily hold up to rains, just don't use the focusing in heavy rains, it might suck water into the head. I like the way they've made their tailcap, and despite what you would think, it's pretty waterproof. Just under that metal button lies a rubber O-ring and rubber boot, which is secured tightly to the wall by the retaining ring. The new LED Lensers are definitely worth a look.


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## Gunner12 (Feb 14, 2009)

There is still better "regulation" with rechargeable batteries though.

Do you have a link to that "drop test"?

I'm glad LedLenser improved their quality with their current lights. They should still make their runtimes less deciving though.


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## Egsise (Feb 14, 2009)

Fenix TK20 could be good choice too.
TK20 and Led Lenser T7(&P7) have roughly the same output, size, beam and runtime.

But considering the use that you need a flashlight:



> batteries - i like aa or aaa due to the convenience factor, can get them anywhere anytime. could live with cr123.


T7 uses 4xAAA
TK20 uses 2xAA



> build quality - would use for work so sturdy is good.


T7 build is simple
TK20, buy online from Fenix-store, they have lifetime warranty for Fenix lights



> weight - carry in a work bag so lightweight is good.


i wouldnt say TK20 or T7 are lightweight, AA or AAA is not the way



> throw - want a nice tight and bright beam at 25m for sure. don't want the scatter. don't want/need to spread the light around. 100+m would be ideal.


T7 has less spill?
TK20...



> not concerned about run time. used only for 3-5 minutes at a time, once per day maybe.



Conclusion:
Go for Fenix TK11 R2, better throw and beam than any lenser except X21 and uses 2xCR123.


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## euroken (Feb 14, 2009)

Check out the LED Lenser T7 outdoor throw at 140ft.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/214238

Not bad I'd say...


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## L.E.D. (Feb 14, 2009)

Egsise said:


> Conclusion:
> Go for Fenix TK11 R2, better throw and beam than any lenser except X21 and uses 2xCR123.



B/S, the P14 stomps the TK11.


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## Egsise (Feb 14, 2009)

Sorry L.E.D, my mistake, you are right.
I should have added P14 to same class as X21, as they are definitely not lightweight and thats why they shouldnt even be compared to TK11.


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## Marduke (Feb 14, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> B/S, the P14 stomps the TK11.



Stomp indeed. How many times heavier and larger is it??


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## L.E.D. (Feb 14, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Stomp indeed. How many times heavier and larger is it??



To answer your question literally,

TK11: 5.3" long x 1.4" head diameter
P14: 8.5" L x 1.8" head

1.6 times longer and 1.3 times wider in the head,

TK11: 5.6 oz
P14: 13.6

and 2.4 times heavier.


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## phantom23 (Feb 14, 2009)

Egsise said:


> Conclusion:
> Go for Fenix TK11 R2, better throw and beam than any lenser except X21 and uses 2xCR123.



Not better, T7/P7 and TK11 are equal in throw. And focusable beam is really great thing, almost priceless. When you want throw - you have throw (with almost no spill which is useless at longer distances), when you need flood, one move and you have one - 100% flood woth no hotspot.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 14, 2009)

But is the T7's voltage regulator better than what they normally use? I just found out they actually still use resistors, and you can only use alkalines because the circuit depends on the way alkalines output less power as they warm up. That information alone is enough to make me not want one, focusing or not.


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## Marduke (Feb 14, 2009)

deusexaethera said:


> But is the T7's voltage regulator better than what they normally use? I just found out they actually still use resistors, and you can only use alkalines because the circuit depends on the way alkalines output less power as they warm up. That information alone is enough to make me not want one, focusing or not.



I'm almost certain the T7 uses no regulator of any kind. Just drop resistors.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 14, 2009)

That's just a cheap trick. I still don't really understand how voltage regulators work, but I definitely understand what they're good for. There's no reason not to use them in a light that costs more than $10.


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## Gunner12 (Feb 14, 2009)

deusexaethera said:


> ...There's no reason not to use them in a light that costs more than $10.



Except to make more profit, but that is the point of almost every company.

The lack of a regualtor might make a light toughter because of simplicity. But then potting the electronics in epoxy also makes them very very tough.


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## Hitthespot (Feb 14, 2009)

Egsise said:


> Fenix TK20 could be good choice too.
> TK20 and Led Lenser T7(&P7) have roughly the same output, size, beam and runtime.


 
No Way. The T7 will out throw the TK20 hands down, probably twice as far, and has a better beam by far. It may not run as long, unfortunately the T7 only runs about 30 minutes on 4 AAA's before falling off fast. I have the P7 and the P14 (had the TK20--Sold It) and I am getting real tired of hearing how inferior these lights are. They out throw every light in their cost range and the P14 will run 3.5 hours minimum on a set of 4 AA's. Plus you have the wide area setting which frankly is great.

Don't get me wrong I love Fenix lights but the TK20 was no favorite of mine. I may have been the only person who was highly disapointed in this light, but I'm entitled to my opinion.

Rant mode off.

Bill


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## deusexaethera (Feb 14, 2009)

Gunner12 said:


> Except to make more profit, but that is the point of almost every company.
> 
> The lack of a regualtor might make a light toughter because of simplicity. But then potting the electronics in epoxy also makes them very very tough.


I dunno, the Jetbeams and Surefires and Fenixes seem to be pretty durable. Maybe LED Lenser is just aiming at a less...er, _enthusiastic_ demographic.

I still think it's cheap. Anyone can see the best-performing lights are the ones that have regulators. Who wouldn't want a light that doesn't get dimmer as soon as you turn it on?


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## L.E.D. (Feb 15, 2009)

Marduke said:


> I'm almost certain the T7 uses no regulator of any kind.



I'm finding it harder and harder to believe this when you look at the runtime curve on alkalines. Where is the expected exponential drop?? Why does the curve look so SEMI-REGULATED even on alkaline, complete opposite of the typical direct drive exponential drop?? It has been said that this light uses three resistors, two in the switch for the high and low modes (high = 1.5 ohms, low = 150 ohms) and another 1.5 ohm resistor in the head. This supposed one in the head, I'm suspecting it's some sort of little IC and NOT a resistor. If you look at the x-ray photo (no longer available from messerforums), you can see what is supposedly the resistor just above the board that the gold plated contacts push against, and it really does not look like a resistor, a bit large to be one. Really doubting this is a resistor, on the high mode, there SHOULD be an exponential drop!


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## Egsise (Feb 15, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> I'm finding it harder and harder to believe this when you look at the runtime curve on alkalines. Where is the expected exponential drop?? Why does the curve look so SEMI-REGULATED even on alkaline, complete opposite of the typical direct drive exponential drop?? It has been said that this light uses three resistors, two in the switch for the high and low modes (high = 1.5 ohms, low = 150 ohms) and another 1.5 ohm resistor in the head. This supposed one in the head, I'm suspecting it's some sort of little IC and NOT a resistor. If you look at the x-ray photo (no longer available from messerforums), you can see what is supposedly the resistor just above the board that the gold plated contacts push against, and it really does not look like a resistor, a bit large to be one. Really doubting this is a resistor, on the high mode, there SHOULD be an exponential drop!


Well to some of us there is a drop....






But in this case the thread starter is going to use it only once a day 3-5 minutes at a time, and the light does not need to be waterproof, so i guess LL T7/P7 is the right one.


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## Power_of_the_Sun (Feb 15, 2009)

Hitthespot said:


> No Way. The T7 will out throw the TK20 hands down, probably twice as far, and has a better beam by far. It may not run as long, unfortunately the T7 only runs about 30 minutes on 4 AAA's before falling off fast. I have the P7 and the P14 (had the TK20--Sold It) and I am getting real tired of hearing how inferior these lights are. They out throw every light in their cost range and the P14 will run 3.5 hours minimum on a set of 4 AA's. Plus you have the wide area setting which frankly is great.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I love Fenix lights but the TK20 was no favorite of mine. I may have been the only person who was highly disapointed in this light, but I'm entitled to my opinion.
> 
> ...




Thanks Bill. I too am tired of hearing how inferior these lights are. I'm the proud owner of a LED Lenser P14 and appreciate that a CPF Benefactor has stated that they like it too. Maybe some people will start to catch on to the fact that some of the new Lenser lights are actually valid competitors to what companies like Surefire and Fenix have to offer.

Power


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## mrmike (Feb 15, 2009)

+1, like some of you, I really like my P14.

The focuser works better than the trusty old Mag.

Want a pinpoint? Got it. Want pure flood? You can have that too.

Glass lenses are nice, but if I drop my P14 down a ditch there's no way that thick lexan lens is going to break.

The battery carrier is the best built in the business.

Throw in some Lithium batteries and you have a couple hours of useful light. 

If there was a hurricane and I had to dash out of the house with one light, I'd take the P14; sometimes the KISS design is an asset. There are some very cool lights out there, but in a life or death situation, I'm not going to grab a light that has a tempermental circuit that might not work when I really need it to (like my LD01, I'm sorry to say even though I like the light).


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## Egsise (Feb 15, 2009)

mrmike said:


> Throw in some Lithium batteries and you have a couple hours of useful light.



Anything else than alkaline is a no no on Led Lensers. :sigh:


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## StingKing (Feb 15, 2009)

Guys, stop bagging out the Led Lenser Lights. They are really good lights, you really just need to try one out, the P14 is my favorite as well. I think the T7 will be perfect for your intended purpose. Good throw with little spill, then a nice wide flood of light and then a low mode for close up applications.


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## Marduke (Feb 15, 2009)




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## L.E.D. (Feb 15, 2009)

Marduke said:


>



LOL


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## Egsise (Feb 15, 2009)

Marduke said:


>


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## deusexaethera (Feb 15, 2009)

Yikes.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 15, 2009)

mrmike said:


> +1, like some of you, I really like my P14.
> 
> The focuser works better than the trusty old Mag.
> 
> ...


Right. When was the last time there was a hurricane that hit Allentown PA?

Seriously though, if there were a hurricane and you had to dash out of the house with only one light, I'd be sitting in my house across the street laughing at your punk *** trying to stay upright in a hurricane.


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## Gunner12 (Feb 15, 2009)

I think LedLenser specifically stating to use only alkaline batteries is a good indication that the light has no circuit. A circuit will try to draw the current it needs from the battery regardless of how much internal resistance the battery has so the light would be fine with alkaline, rechargeable and lithium batteries.

If the light was directly driven, then the battery's internal resistance is much more important. Rechargeable and Lithium batteries have lower internal resistance then alkaline batteries, which means they can hold higher voltage at higher current better then alkaline batteries, which also means the LED will be driven harder and could cause more heat.

The T7 seems to be a good light for shorter bursts or usage at lower modes, which could be just what the OP wanted. The optic might help too.


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## Hitthespot (Feb 15, 2009)

Alright Marduke, I don't want to post the picture again but that was pretty funny.:thumbsup:

Bill


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## droeun (Feb 15, 2009)

*Re: led lensaer t7*



dban said:


> for a beginner here....would the led lenser t7 from lowes at $65ish be the same as the led lenser t7 from brightguy.com eg for $100ish?



+1 for the T7 - I bought the police pack from brightguy.com which included the K3 mini & 2 cases and I'm very happy with it. Even though it's not regulated the performance is very good with NIMH. The only thing I dislike is how the high mode is only 90% full brightness and you can only get full brightness by pressing & holding the switch halfway down. The beam is incredible at night & it throws very far for such a small light.


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## L.E.D. (Feb 15, 2009)

mrmike said:


> +1, like some of you, I really like my P14.
> 
> The focuser works better than the trusty old Mag.
> 
> ...



Good point about the KISS factor. I guess maybe it is just the extra voltage that flattens out the curve. I did however try out putting in only two used AA's at 1.3 volts each. It would light up at about a lumen on the low mode, and around 10 - 12 lumens on high and turbo. Does a Cree still light up at 2.6 volts with no circuitry? If it's giving that runtime curve without circuitry, those must be quite the premium resistors..

About Marduke making us LL fans look like little bi+ches being completely on the defensive, time to go on the offensive then. Fenix makes nice lights, but when it comes down to it, they're just another me-too product with LED's stuffed in them. Let's see, there's now Eagletac, Edgetac, Tiablo, Jetbeam, etc. etc. All of them pretty much make reflectored regulated lights. Sure, Fenix was one of the first, and are extremely nice, but I'm not a brand loyalist, I like GOOD lights, not (insert brand here) lights. The classic LL lines were not too great, some of them were alright actually, but this new line is pretty awesome, extremely unique, and anything P14 and up outthrows anything in Fenix's line short of the TK40, and it might outthrow that too. Marduke, you seem to only concentrate on the negatives of LL, which I guess I can't blame you for since you have had a lot of their old line fail on you, but have you even tried the P7?


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## SureAddicted (Feb 15, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> Marduke, you seem to only concentrate on the negatives of LL....




He likes to troll, take a look at all the LL threads and you'll see what I mean.


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## Marduke (Feb 15, 2009)

Everyone keeps mentioning how well it throws. Since when is throw the only measure of how good a light is? I can go down to WalMart and spend $15 on a spotlight that will out-throw any of the lights mentioned here. There are a lot of different aspects that go into what makes a quality light, and having a novel focusing system is but one of dozens.


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## Egsise (Feb 15, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Everyone keeps mentioning how well it throws. Since when is throw the only measure of how good a light is? I can go down to WalMart and spend $15 on a spotlight that will out-throw any of the lights mentioned here. There are a lot of different aspects that go into what makes a quality light, and having a novel focusing system is but one of dozens.



Original poster wanted good throw, no spill, once a day 3-5 minutes at a time, small enough to fit in to workbag, and i guess 65-100$.

P7/T7 is great for that, those "features" of Led Lenser are making them a very good choice for him.
If he wanted to use it for more general stuff, then LL "features" would be PITA.


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## dban (Feb 15, 2009)

just picked up the t7. thank yall very much for the comments. i've learned a lot from this board in the last 4 days that i've known of its existence. you can learn alot from reading and other people's experiences and all the numbers and photos. thank you. after trying it out....its exactly what i needed. while the focusing is not what many people want, it worked out better for me than i thought it would. i was expecting to use it "focused" all the time but found out that having a wider angle helps sometimes. i definitely like the focus aspect of the light. it almost seems like to me that while it may not work for everyone, this light is a task (ok 2 task) specific light. the tight focused beam has very little spread which i like. i would recommend the light to anyone who has those specific criteria that i did. also, it was $65 at lowes with a belt-hook carry case. once again, thank you.


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## Pabs D (Feb 15, 2009)

well, good on you for trying it out and realizing it matched your needs. seeing through the negativity and killjoy attitudes can be PITA. but it's all in good childish fun right mates?


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## phantom23 (Feb 15, 2009)

SureAddicted said:


> He likes to troll, take a look at all the LL threads and you'll see what I mean.



You're trolling now. It's been said already: old models - we know what you mean, new models (Px series) are much better.


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## L.E.D. (Feb 17, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Everyone keeps mentioning how well it throws. Since when is throw the only measure of how good a light is? I can go down to WalMart and spend $15 on a spotlight that will out-throw any of the lights mentioned here. There are a lot of different aspects that go into what makes a quality light, and having a novel focusing system is but one of dozens.



Don't put words into my mouth, I never said throw is the only thing that makes a light, just stating the fact that it indeed outthrows any of the Fenix line of lights, and throw is actually pretty important, depending, as well as beam quality. My P14 throws a perfect tight circle, after I recalibrated the optic (unscrewed the retaining ring on the lens and got the lens in the position where I see the best beam), as well as a perfect flood without a blinding hotspot to ruin it. It's also reliable, durable as hell, and build quality and overall design are great.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 17, 2009)

I have a 0.1W laser pointer that can out-throw anything your punk *** can scratch up. What now, son?






Throw is only useful if you're looking at one thing and it's far away. That might be important if you know the thing you're looking for and you know it's far away, but usually when it's dark you have to _find_ what you're looking for first. For that, you need spill.

Besides, what if the thing you're looking at moves quickly out of your hotspot? With not even a faint bit of illumination around it, you won't know which direction to move the light in. I can't think of a single instance (within reason) in which I would want all throw.

Also, did I mention the power regulator is a cheap trick?


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## L.E.D. (Feb 17, 2009)

deusexaethera said:


> I have a 0.1W laser pointer that can out-throw anything your punk *** can scratch up. What now, son?



My "punk ***", "son"? Who the hell do you think you're talking to, you don't know a damn thing of what I'm scratching up (MOSPOS), and almost an hour and a half to 50% might as well be semi-regulated. That little middle finger smiley, middle finger right back at ya, dumbass @55hole.


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## Marduke (Feb 17, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> and almost an hour and a half to 50% might as well be semi-regulated.



Regulation depends on the slope of the discharge curve, not the distance between two predetermined points.


In a direct drive light, the best you can get is "pseudo regulation" from a chemistry with low internal resistance, such as NiMH or lithium, both of which are explicitly FORBIDDEN by LL.


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## L.E.D. (Feb 17, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Regulation depends on the slope of the discharge curve, not the distance between two predetermined points.



Yeah, and the last predetermined point when combined with the "to 50%" part describes the slope.


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## Marduke (Feb 17, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> Yeah, and the last predetermined point when combined with the "to 50%" part describes the slope.




A nearly linear line between 100% and 50% is NOT regulated in any way. Percentage change in output per unit time would accurately describe any regulation, and the discharge curve of alkalines in direct drive fails any definitions.


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## L.E.D. (Feb 17, 2009)

Marduke said:


> A nearly linear line between 100% and 50% is NOT regulated in any way. Percentage change in output per unit time would accurately describe any regulation, and the discharge curve of alkalines in direct drive fails any definitions.



Never said it was regulated, it's just nice that it's not the typical exponential drop to 50% in the first several minutes.


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## Marduke (Feb 17, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> Never said it was regulated, *it's just nice that it's not the typical exponential drop to 50% in the first several minutes.*



No, you said "semi-regulated", which is is not since it is direct drive.


But it does have that drop (see above graphs)


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## L.E.D. (Feb 17, 2009)

Marduke said:


> No, you said "semi-regulated", which is is not since it is direct drive.
> 
> 
> But it does have that drop (see above graphs)



No, I said "it MIGHT AS WELL BE semi-regulated", I didn't say it WAS, and no, it doesn't have that drop to 50% in the first several minutes, it hits 50% after over an hour. The exponential drop in the first few minutes is there alright, but it's still well above 50%. On alkalines, it's got about the same-looking slope as an Inova Radiant AA on alkalines. Isn't the Radiant semi-regulated?






Again, compare it to the graph here: http://flashlightreviews.com/reviews/inova_radiant_aa.htm

I'd say that the T7's curve fits the description of "it does not dim nearly as rapidly as a direct-driven alkaline light", which is along the lines of what Doug / Quickbeam says of the Inova's runtime-output. Is that really just a resistor in the head??


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## Marduke (Feb 17, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> No, I said "it MIGHT AS WELL BE semi-regulated", I didn't say it WAS, and no, it doesn't have that drop to 50% in the first several minutes, it hits 50% after over an hour. The exponential drop in the first few minutes is there alright, but it's still well above 50%. On alkalines, it's got about the same-looking slope as an Inova Radiant AA on alkalines. Isn't the Radiant semi-regulated?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The Radiant's slope is approximately 5 times shallower than a direct drive alkaline power light (the graph you linked above). So no, it's not the same.

In fact, they are so different, if you overlayed them on the same scale, it would look like a lowercase cursive "t" laying on it's side.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 17, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> My "punk ***", "son"? Who the hell do you think you're talking to, you don't know a damn thing of what I'm scratching up (MOSPOS), and almost an hour and a half to 50% might as well be semi-regulated. That little middle finger smiley, middle finger right back at ya, dumbass @55hole.


Jesus Christ on a stick, how obvious do I have to make my humor before you (old) people recognize it for what it is? It was _supposed _to be ridiculous. Or did you think I was somehow being serious with a smiley called "e-thug.jpg"?

I'm afraid you leave me no choice but to make you read irreverent webcomics.






Lighten up. It's only the Internet. Son.

 (my laser pointer still out-throws your MOSPOS.)


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## toby_pra (Feb 18, 2009)




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## phantom23 (Feb 18, 2009)

LedLenser regulation (semi-regulation/direct driving):





LedLenser Hokus Fokus - direct driven for sure:




http://fred-flashlights.tacomall.com.tw/DATA/coast3aaa/coast.htm

Do you see any difference?


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## Marduke (Feb 18, 2009)

phantom23 said:


> LedLenser regulation (semi-regulation/direct driving):
> 
> 
> LedLenser Hokus Fokus - direct driven for sure:
> ...



Yep, the difference 4x vs 3x makes in DIRECT DRIVE.


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## radu1976 (Feb 18, 2009)

Wow, what a difference ...!
The 7438 reches 50% of the original brightness after only 40 min...

I had this 7438. 
I used to compare it to INOVA X03/T3 TIROS.
I had the feeling of the same throw, maybe a bit better throw for the LL7438 .
I know that a TIROS INOVA puts about 2,000 lux . LL7438 puts almost 3 times initially. But they seem to be quite equal in throw...I can't explain that 

Anyhow I am happy I got rid of that light and I have a T7 incoming )


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## L.E.D. (Feb 18, 2009)

deusexaethera said:


> Lighten up. It's only the Internet. Son.
> 
> (my laser pointer still out-throws your MOSPOS.)



No, actually your laser pointer doesn't outthrow the aspheric build. Son. In a post above, I already said throw isn't everything.


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## Ice (Feb 18, 2009)

First I'd like to say that I just left a forum because most people seemed biased there and everyone with a different opinion got insulted and banned. I'm extremely gratefull that it's very different here (at least 99% of the time)! :thumbsup:


Concerning L.E.D.'s statement "it might as well be semi-regulated", I have to say that the T7's runtime graph indeed resembles much more the semi regulated one and looks very different from the unregulated one. I really can't imagine how anyone could see that differently...

I'd like to write a few positives and negatives about the T7 as I see it:

+ working focus with a very visible difference
+ uses common batteries
+ seems well built
- not really regulated 
- can't use lithium AAA batteries
- a little large for my taste
- focus setting gets too easily changed

I'd really be interrrested in a focusing led light from SureFire, but it seems they have given up on that...

PS:
If you could get your favourite light in the same size with the same beam pattern but with the added possibility to focus the beam a little for long distances (and with a focus that does not get too easily changed), would not everyone be happy about that?
(Yes, I know, that's hardly possible... )


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## f22shift (Feb 18, 2009)

:bow::rock::lolsign: @marduke


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## Gunner12 (Feb 18, 2009)

Ok, so now there is LedLenser vs "any other company".

I'll remember that next time.


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## L.E.D. (Feb 18, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Yep, the difference 4x vs 3x makes in DIRECT DRIVE.



I think you're right Marduke. That was my first and best guess, that the extra voltage helps make it flatter. Still, I'd rather have that extra cell improving the performance rather than a direct drive 3 cell, as a previous post has shown comparing the two LL graphs.

I should have been more civilized in my retort, Deusexaethera, that thug middle finger smiley and the whole punk-*** son thing just set me off. I really do need to lighten up, though, in real life, not just on the internet. Just been feeling so high strung lately.


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## kramer5150 (Feb 18, 2009)

Ice said:


> PS:
> If you could get your favourite light in the same size with the same beam pattern but with the added possibility to focus the beam a little for long distances (and with a focus that does not get too easily changed), would not everyone be happy about that?
> (Yes, I know, that's hardly possible... )



Yes, but only if the lumen output remained the same switching between flood and throw. Designs that sacrifice Lumen output to obtain a tight focus do not interest me.

Kudos to you all for a heathy / spicy discussion... like a good Thai meal.


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## L.E.D. (Feb 18, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> Yes, but only if the lumen output remained the same switching between flood and throw. Designs that sacrifice Lumen output to obtain a tight focus do not interest me.
> 
> Kudos to you all for a heathy / spicy discussion... like a good Thai meal.



The lumens do remain the same, you can tell when you do a ceiling bounce test and shift focus. The overall output stays exactly the same, shadows are just more pronounced under the spot setting of course, and the bounce will look brighter directly under you on spot, but on flood the bounce lights up more area.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 19, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> No, actually your laser pointer doesn't outthrow the aspheric build. Son. In a post above, I already said throw isn't everything.


Okay. Lasers can throw to the Moon, but the MOSPOS wins. :thinking:

I know throw isn't everything; the laser pointer joke was making fun of people who think it is. A laser can out-throw everything but the Sun, but it's not terribly useful for seeing things.

(before you mention it, yes I know my little green laser pointer can't throw to the Moon, but no un-lased light can.)


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## deusexaethera (Feb 19, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> Yes, but only if the lumen output remained the same switching between flood and throw. Designs that sacrifice Lumen output to obtain a tight focus do not interest me.


Well, since lumens measure the total light output of a light source, instead of the beam's apparent brightness at any single point on an imaginary sphere surrounding the light source (usually the brightest point in the center of the beam, for marketing reasons), it does stand to reason that any light worth paying for would have a lumen rating unaffected (as much as possible) by the focusing mechanism.


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## yellow (Feb 19, 2009)

Think I can also be considered a "constant LL-basher" 
but
I always explain why:

1st: I know the old models and their pricing  (and its difficult to be objective when the datasheets show the same crap as be4)
2nd: most all of the new line are made sooo GREAT mechanically, that the nonexisting drivers, non up to date finish, price, silly battery size choice and chemistry restriction and the still ridiculous brightness/runtime claims dont get together.

Sure most of this is individual (battery size, regulation) and the P7 really makes a nice output graph, so using 4 cells seems a good idea.
But imagine that light with 2 AAs (or maybe 3 in a round body to stay at same dimensions, or an 18650), a good driver and data offered that comes close to reality. 
Wouldnt this kick as?

The machining alone would immediately lead to me getting such one.
(I am not sure on the focusing device, think I like a good medium beam more. Spill is necessary adn I have no use for extreme throw))


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## Egsise (Feb 19, 2009)

Ice said:


> If you could get your favourite light in the same size with the same beam pattern but with the added possibility to focus the beam a little for long distances (and with a focus that does not get too easily changed), would not everyone be happy about that?
> (Yes, I know, that's hardly possible... )


Waterproof focusing system would be quite nice.


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