# Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search Light Finally Completed



## ma_sha1 (Apr 3, 2010)

*New Beam shots:*

To the *twin tree in the woods*, it's exactly *374ft* (*125 yards* or 114 meters).






Zoom in to the 374ft twin tree target in the center:





Franken MagDEFT SST-50 at night time:





Camera Zoom in/ It's capable of Very large area coverage at 374Ft out
I'd imagine it's really useful for hunting when need to spot animals 200-300 yards away, where conventional reflectored flashlight isn't suficient anymore. 

There is only one over 1000 lumen led light that could match MagDEFT in throw,
that is DR90, but SR90 is a lot bigger in size. 








I am in the thrower mood right now, just made a DEFT Jr. here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/264722

Now I want something bigger & badder, something that could throw like DEFT but pumps out > 1000 lumens,:devil:
something that will have a beam spot size similar to Arcmania X6 but can out throw the X6. 

Starting with the DEFT Host (DX 4213), the 109-LED Mega shower head, which has a bezel diameter of 3.15".

Now, install a optical glass 3" HID Projector into the DEFT bezel: 
(THE HID projectors are sold by the pair only, I have two but only need one if anyone want the other 3" Aspherica lens to try this, PM me, $20 +$3 shipping, US only). 

The lens need an "adaptor" to be mounted, so I glued a set of double wire around the lens edge, so the lens will fit snag & won't move sideways, but still need something to hold it in place vertically. 






Then I cut open the shower head mash:





Cut away the core & leave the rim section only, this is then mounted back in the bezel to hold the lens from below. 





After install the "bracket", I make a "spring" using steel wire so that fits into one of the thread, together with the bracket, the combo is able to hold the lens in place without moving around. 






Now, the DEFT head with 3" Aspheric lens mounted next to the DEFT Jr. & mag sized Aspheric head: 





I always felt the DEFT has a disproportionally small body vs head: 






The next step is a big challenge, as I want to mount a SSR-50 & over drive it to match DEFT Cree R2 surface Brightness. The DEFT host clearly does not have enough room for a beefy heat sink, the body wall is also too thin for the amount of heat I am expecting out of a SSR-50 running 7.5 Amp. 





This is when I came up with the *Franken MagDEFT* idea, If I could force the DEFT head onto the Mag D Body, I will be able to mount beefy heat sink & still have plenty room left for drivers:

I started with grinding away the threads on Rebel LED Mag 2D tube:






Followed by grinding away the inside thread of DEFT head:





NOW, the results of Mag & DEFT "Arranged Marriage" :naughty:
I think they look good together 





Couple more pictures of the MagDEFT:











This is all I can do for now, I am still waiting for the drivers to come as well as Mag D sink. The plan is to drive SSR-50 to 7.5 Amp, which I believe it's necessary to match up the LED surface brightness of DEFT based on my math below, feel free to correct me if I am wrong:

The 3 Leds below at their rated Spec Current limit have similar surface brightness (My laymen's term & understanding that the surface brightness is roughly equal to Lumen per square mm die area), all three are around ~250lm/sq mm. 

XRE R2 Max Spec 1 AMP ~ 250lm/1 sq mm 
XPG R5 Max spec 1.5 AMP ~ 495lm/2 sq mm, I.E. ~ 250l lm/ sq mm 
SSR-50 Top bin Max Spec 5 Amp ~ 1250lumen/5 sq mm, ~250 lm/sq mm 

However, DEFT is over driven the R2 to 150% of spec, I.E. ~ 1.5/1.6 amp. 
I need to over drive the SSR-50 by 150% as well to keep up the surface brightness of DEFT.

I.E. I need to drive SST-50 to 7.5 Amp (150% of 5Amp spec). 
By the same logic, one can match DEFT Cree R2 surface brightness by driving 
XPG R5 to ~2.3 Amp. 

Although I've done SSR-90 & the idea of SST/SSR-90 is tempting, I don't think it is practical for the goal of this project. 
As I'll need to over drive it to 13.5 Amp to keep up the surface brightness, even if I could find a way to deliver 13.5 Amp, I don't think I can keep it cool enough to avoid overheating problems. That's about 45 Watts. The SSR-50 at 7.5Amp will be about 25 Watts only. 

This is it for now, I have top bin SSR-50 ready, once I get the heat sink & drivers in, I can then continue to finish it up.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 3, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower beast*

Reserved


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## saabluster (Apr 3, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*



ma_sha1 said:


> The next step is a big challenge, as I want to mount a SSR-50 & over drive it to match DEFT Cree R2 surface Brightness.








ma_sha1 said:


> The plan is to drive SSR-50 to 7.5 Amp, which I believe it's necessary to match up the LED surface brightness of DEFT based on my math below, feel free to correct me if I am wrong:
> 
> The 3 Leds below at their rated Spec Current limit have similar surface brightness (My laymen's term & understanding that the surface brightness is roughly equal to Lumen per square mm die area), all three are around ~250lm/sq mm.
> 
> ...


Sorry but you will not get that SSR-50 to match the surface brightness of the XR-E R2 in the DEFT. I just don't see it happening. The XR-E R2 is a 275lm per mm sq @1A not 250. The FTP is running at 340ish per sq mm. One I am working on at the moment is at close to 390 per sq mm. 
Besides all that your assumptions as to just bumping one up 150% do not pan out in the real world. You will have to de-rate the lumen output for that SSR-50 much more than would be necessary for the XR-E in the same light. 
So first off the chance of you even being able to match the surface brightness of the XR-E at similar energy densities is next to impossible and then you have the real world application to worry about. Using the mag body will help but not for very long.


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## parnell (Apr 3, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*

I put together a Deft clone a couple of months ago. I liked the idea of a mag body, but gave up after the threads not matching.

I give it to you for making them fit. :twothumbs
You have made me look seriously at making a Jr clone.

I am very curious to see the results. I understand why a xre is suppose to be the best thrower, but I wonder how much the eye will be able to differentiate.

What is the thickness of your lens? What is the diameter at the base of the convex section?


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## Al Combs (Apr 4, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*

I think you're right about the 109 shower head looking more natural on a Mag body. It looks awesome.:twothumbs Can't wait to see your comparative beamshots.

What is a, "HID Projector"? Where did you find this lens? Do you know its focal length?


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 4, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*



parnell said:


> I put together a Deft clone a couple of months ago. I liked the idea of a mag body, but gave up after the threads not matching.
> 
> What is the thickness of your lens? What is the diameter at the base of the convex section?



*The thickness is ~30mm, total diameter 74mm, convex section 69mm. *



Al Combs said:


> I think you're right about the 109 shower head looking more natural on a Mag body. It looks awesome.:twothumbs Can't wait to see your comparative beamshots.
> 
> What is a, "HID Projector"? Where did you find this lens? Do you know its focal length?



Thanks!

I got the lens on ebay, Lens are for modding cars where people 
mod Halogen light using reflector into HID Lights with Projection beam,
thus they call it "HID Projector". Thus, they sell it by the pair only. 

I don't know the EFL, but they are all short EFL Aspheric type. 
The original DEFT thread, if you remember before he started making plastic lens for DEFT production, was made using a lens out of Subaru SVX headlight, it's the same type of deal. 

The original DEFT thread here for reference:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183261


The next big challenge for me is to manage driving it to 7.5 Amp without
I plan to use 3 P7 drivers in parallel (I used 2 in parallel here to get 5 Amp). 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254481
.

I have 2 Top Bin SSR-50 ready, in case one goes , I'll stil have one for plan B. :naughty:
.


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## parnell (Apr 4, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*



ma_sha1 said:


> *The thickness is ~30mm, total diameter 74mm, convex section 69mm. *
> 
> The next big challenge for me is to manage driving it to 7.5 Amp without
> I plan to use 3 P7 drivers in parallel (I used 2 in parallel here to get 5 Amp).
> ...


 
Thanks for the specs. A Subaru SVX lens is ~29mm and around a 54mm focal length. That should mean that the 30mm lens should have a slightly shorter focal length.

Hopefully it doesn't go  at 7.5, but if it does atleast you will have suceeded in finding an ~max voltage.


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## Al Combs (Apr 4, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*



ma_sha1 said:


> I got the lens on ebay, Lens are for modding cars where people
> mod Halogen light using reflector into HID Lights with Projection beam,
> thus they call it "HID Projector". Thus, they sell it by the pair only.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info on the aspheric.

I think you're right about Luminus LED's being able to take a lot of power. The SST-90 is rated at 9 amps max. But the CST-90, which looks identical, is rated for 13.5 amps. I looks like it's mounted directly to a metal bracket with a built in thermistor to throttle back the regulator when it's about to self destruct. An estimate from the Relative Output Flux vs. Forward Current graph on page 9 of their docs gives a 331% increase in output over the 3.2 amp rating. That's almost 4,000 lumens. Jtr1962 tested an SST-90 at the bottom of post #336 from his white lumens thread. He stopped at 11.75 amps because it was a loaner.

The SST-50 should scale pretty well since it's the same type of LED. Good luck and keep us posted.lovecpf


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 4, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*

Thanks for the info. Since I haven't seen data on what if 7.5 Amp, Assume the SST-50 Scale same way as SST-90, the SST-90 Curve you referred to extends to about 2800 Lumens at 13.5 Amp (By visually extending the curve).

2800/2200 = 1.27.

Assume 7.5Amp is 1.27x of the 5A lumens on SST-50 as well, then 1250x1.27 =1588 lumen
Divide by 5mm, this would estimate to be ~ 318 Lumens/mm surface brightness.

per Saab response earlier in this thread, his DEFT FTP is running at 340ish per sq mm, so this will be just shy of the DEFT FTP Cree R2 surface brightness, but not by much thou.


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## saabluster (Apr 5, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*



ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks for the info. Since I haven't seen data on what if 7.5 Amp, Assume the SST-50 Scale same way as SST-90, the SST-90 Curve you referred to extends to about 2800 Lumens at 13.5 Amp (By visually extending the curve).
> 
> 2800/2200 = 1.27.
> 
> ...


The problem is you are not taking into account the real world affects of the heat generated by all that power running through the SSR-50. You would be far better off losing the MCPCB under that thing and soldering it directly to some copper. The SST-90 jtr tested was mine and I mounted it directly to copper. Do not assume your LED will scale along with that one when yours is on an MCPCB.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 5, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*

Thanks, Saab,

I know the heat management will be much harder to over come on the over driven SSR-50. 
Thus, the Mag body idea to battle it. It's just a math to get me a understanding on where would it be in an ideal case.

In real world, I am not expecting this to be in the 132,000 lux/1M zone, the DEFT FTP measured by Big C.

I am hoping it'll come out to be >100,000 Lux at one meter, thus
almost twice as bright as the ArcMania X6 (Someone measured it at 56,000 lux/1M). 
The excitng part to me is to see >100,000 lux on a 5x bigger beam area over XRE via 3" lens. 

I think 100K lux/1M is a reasonable target as the SR90 was able to achieve 112K lux/1M using a reflector. 
And I am guessing the SST-90 used was not even over driven. I can't imagine the mass mfg. would overdrive it 
as too much liabilities. However, the SR90 does have another advantage that is that it uses a 4 inch head. 

I plan to send to Big C for a measurement when done & see what it'll be, assuming no 

It is entirely possible that I may  both the SSR-50 I have & end up with zero lux at 1 meter


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## Al Combs (Apr 6, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*



ma_sha1 said:


> I know the heat management will be much harder to over come on the over driven SSR-50.


An old thread was recently resurrected about peltier coolers. Newbie's post#23 pointed to an short article about a heat pipe used in an LED lighting fixture. Don't all the really good CPU heatsinks use heat pipes? Why not an LED flashlight? Maybe there's a way you can integrate one of them into your designs. How about something like this? A nice flower arrangement. :laughing:

But all kidding aside, what if you had a MagD with 1" PVC as a lateral spacer for NiMH C cells. And then you cut a slot the length of the PVC wide enough to thermal epoxy a heat pipe the whole length of the battery tube. Now instead of just the reflector housing being what ultimately dissipates heat to the surrounding air, it's the entire flashlight.

Speaking of the Mag's reflector housing, this is something I've always wondered about. Everyone is very careful to glue their LED's onto the heat sink with the thinnest layer of Arctic Alumina or Arctic Silver epoxy possible. Then put some AA or AS thermal compound on the heatsink to maximize the thermal transfer to the battery housing. And lastly screw the reflector housing back onto the battery housing with Nyogel-760?:thinking: OK, AA or AS compound tends to seize up after sitting for a while and it's probably bad for the O-ring. But think of all the play in those threads that have nothing but grease on them. Which gets hotter, the reflector or the battery tube? Meanwhile the heatsink is basically storing all that built up heat.

I saw and interesting thread by Leef when he and Milkyspit released the Gotham. Take a look at post #18 by Milky and do a Ctrl-F browser search for "copper". He indicates their heat sink was originally copper but they got better performance using aluminum. Copper can conduct heat twice as fast as aluminum, but has a lower specific heat (storage ability). So if you can't dump the heat after conducting it, you've got a problem. I think this LED Zeppelin heatsink is one of the best design concepts I've seen as far as a combination of aluminum and copper. :thumbsup:


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 17, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search light Finally Completed*

Finally, all my parts came in. I was able to finish this light.

The Heat sink is bare Alu. H22A Mag D sink.
I had to grind down the post in the center to let the star sit on the big surface below. 






Also need to grind away the edge of the heat sink.
To allow the sink to sit deep & focus the led to the focal point of the lens. 
The start is glue down with Arctic Silver.
The sink is inserted in the tube with Thermo paste.





I was not able to fit 3 drivers in, so I wired 2 P7 driver in parallel to get 5 Amp. With the dual 2.8Amp driver, the led measured 4.99 Amp at turn on with 2x LiFePO4 26650 (6.7V). The Amp draw at tail is 3.5Amp. 





These are my new safe chemistry LiFePO4 big C cells (26650).
The LiFePO4 26650 can deliver 10 AMP max & 7Amp constant working current, so 2 in series could be used to drive SST-90 too. 






When finshed, the heat sink is deep inside the tube. 
The Head is glue to the body with JB Weld at the focus point. 
Small focus adjustment can be done by turning the bezel, because 
the the lens is fixed on the bezel, there's quiet a few turns of thread to allow focus adjustments if necessary. 






It's raining out side, but I couldn't wait, so I am taking shots in the rain (very small rain the humidity is 100%). 
This is extreme top bin SSR-50 At 5 Amp, 1250 Lumens mated up DEFT head & 3 inch glass Aspherical lens, 
I think it should throw further than ArcMania X6 & give a similar large hot spot, useful as a long distance search light. 

I am comparing with my Benchmark Mag 85, the 1000 Luman Incan thrower. There is a car at the end, between the Garage & the building. The distance from light to the car is about ~180 feet, from light to the front of the garage is about 130 ft. I have the camera zoomed in quite a bit. 
Because the car is at the end of a narrow pathway, the Mag 85 light up the side a lot but not enough throw (It's raining, it diffuses the beam which would have had better throw in a clear day) to light up the car. 
Imagine a rainy day, a bad guy hiding at the end of the narrow passage way about 180 feet away next to the car. The Mag85 will not be enough because you can barely see the car.






Now, the SSR-50 MagDEFT Search Light under the same manual exposure setting, you can see the car much better & the bad guy would be fully exposed! It's still raining outside, but still, the MagDEFT has no problem getting the job done!






Still with zoom on, but less zoom then the photos before. I was holding the light by hand, so it's a bit fuzzy, but you can see how bright it is vs. the light bulbs at the door.


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## swrdply400mrelay (Apr 17, 2010)

Nice!!!!


Can't wait to see some more beamshots!


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 18, 2010)

Certainly. One of the clear days, I plan to take it to one of the light house places around here for some longer distance shots.


Another update, after about 10 min use, the light starts blinking non stop, 
LiFePo4 battery measured 3.1V (Started at 3.35v). Then I realize that the driver was meant for 2x4.2v Li-ion, this could be the driver's low voltage warning function at work? 

So I re-rig this into running 2x4.2V IMR 26650, Wola, even brighter than Yeasterday!. The low voltage warning is nice, reminds me when it's time to charge. The IMR 26650 is 4000mAH, even higher capacity for rock solid output!

The current set-up:
There is a tiny magnet on top of the left battery(hard to see) to help making the positive connection to the switch. 
The inside of tail cap is de-anoed & The spring is recessed for Running 2x 26650.


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## parnell (Apr 18, 2010)

That is SWEEEET!!!

Now just waiting for the distance shots with comparisons to you other throwers.


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## jarekdadej (Apr 18, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search light Finally Completed*

i know it is out of topic but i have to ask - are you willing to sell reflector from that Mag LED.


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## toby_pra (Apr 19, 2010)

Nice result!


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search light Finally Completed*



jarekdadej said:


> i know it is out of topic but i have to ask - are you willing to sell reflector from that Mag LED.




Sorry, I am planning to try the Mag Rebel LED Reflector on a SST-90.



toby_pra said:


> Nice result!



Thanks


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## Al Combs (Apr 19, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 Search light Finally Completed*



ma_sha1 said:


> Sorry, I am planning to try the Mag Rebel LED Reflector on a SST-90.


Are you planning on using the Rebel reflector in the regular MagD reflector housing? I noticed you also bought one of Fivemega's Finned/Flutted M*g "D" Heads. I almost bought a Mag-Rebel 2D because of Techjunkie's comment, "The Mag Rebel reflector wins for throw and hotspot hands down." And again he had good things to say about that reflector in the build thread. But when I held the regular MagD next to the Rebel-Mag at my local Home Depot, the Rebel reflector housing is about 1/4" longer. Spending 30 bucks for a plastic reflector isn't as ridiculous as it sounds, because I also needed the host. I just wasn't sure if they could be easily modded to work together. If you are planning on trying it, please let us know the results. 

BTW, I love your beamshots of Franken-Deft up against that Mag85. Amazing that an 1185 looks sick up against any kind of LED.


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 20, 2010)

Sure, I'll make a post when I get it done. 
I did see Techjunkie's post & was curious to test the Rebel reflector. 

Because it's deep, I will need to recess the heat sink. It's not a problem,
just need to grind down the Rim of the heat sink & have it go deep inside 
the tube. I don;t have a 10A driver solution, might need to wait as 
there some 10A CC drivers suppose to come out soon. I'd like to Run it 
with 2 Li-ion.


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## Al Combs (Apr 20, 2010)

Looking forward to it.


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## ckeilah (Apr 21, 2010)

Wow! That's really cool! This reminds me of the mountain bike light I made from some PVC pipe, hose clamps, a 12V 6Ah battery, and a 50W halogen MR15 spotlight. It was too bright to run on the street! Cars would hit their highbeams and wail on their horns, but it was great in the dark forest trails. I guess LEDs have usurped halogens nowadays. Some day I'll reinvent that wheel like you have here. :-D


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 28, 2010)

Finally, I got a DX Lux meter, I was able to do a Thrower 1 meter Lux Shoot out.
Actual Lux Measurement done at 5 meter; 1 Meter Lux calculated conversion from Meter lux.

Light in the Shoot out are left to Right:

1.5D Mag 1185 3x17670:.........................................5 Meter Lux: 950;.................... 1 Meter Lux 23750
5xCree WF500 2x18500: .........................................5 Meter Lux: 1130;...................1 Meter Lux 28250
Ledean Mag 1C SS 52mm Aspheric lens, Cree P4 DD,.... 5 Meter Lux: 2100;.................. 1 Meter Lux 52500
Mag 1C Clone DX 50mm Aspheric Cree R2 1.5A, ...........5 Meter Lux: 2500;.................. 1 Meter Lux 62500
MagDEFT 3" Aspheric lens SSR-50 Top Bin 5 AMP, ....... 5 Meter Lux: 3995;...................1 Meter Lux 99875

The DX meter is known to read very low but consistent. If I use the conversion factor from Saabluster described here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3348264&postcount=12

The corrected 1 meter Lux would be roughly = DX Lux @ 1 meter x1.4, the Frenken MagDeft comes out to be 139,825.
Compares to DEFT FTP ~132,000; SR90 SST-90 search light 112,000; ArcMania Ostar X6 56,000. 

This lux results comes out higher than I expected. I expected it to be >100,000,
but did not expect it to be in line with DEFT FTP. needless to say, I am very happy with the results. 

The light has similar throw to DEFT FTP, but with 1250 LED Lumens & 5 times the spot size of DEFT,
more useful as a search light.
IT has a spot size similar to ARCMania X6, but more than 2 times the beam brightness. 
It out throws SR90 just a bit.


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## COAST (Apr 28, 2010)

Wow!!!


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## moviles (Apr 29, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> MagDEFT 3" Aspheric lens SSR-50 Top Bin 5 AMP 1 Meter Lux: 99875


wow 99875 [email protected] with the sst-50 :twothumbs


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## ma_sha1 (Apr 29, 2010)

That's before the correction factor. The Saabluster correction factor quoted above was 1.4. I also found other threads talking about correction factor ~1.15 to 1.2 range. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/171681

Overall, everyone agrees that DX meter consistently read low, with all the info. I read, I'd conclude that the the lux @ 1 Meter for the MagDEFT SSR-50 is in the range between 115,000 to 139,000. 

The 5AMP @ LED was measured with 2xDX Li-ion.
The LUX was measured now with the light running 2xIMR 26650.
So the LED is seeiing slightly higher than 5AMP, possibly 5.5A range, thus 
the led lumen is greater than the 5A spec of 1250, probably >1300 emitter Lumens cobservatively. 

Overall, conservatively speaking, I would say this light, while running on 2xIMR 26650, has achieved the following:



 Greater than 1300 emitter lumens
Greater than 115,000 Lux at 1 meter
Greater than 2x the throw of the stunning ARC Mania X6
Out Performs the SR90 (SST-90 on 4" SMO) search light slightly in throw.
Similar throw as DEFT FTP but with 5x the hot spot area, thus more useful as a search light.
Overall, I am glad that the results have exceeded my design goal of the project (>100,000 lux @ 1 meter with a beam spot large enough to be useful as a search light).


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## Ra (Aug 22, 2010)

What happened to the original Homemade and Modified Lights section???

Since it's called 'Discussion', important thread's like this sink out of view in notime.. Me not like that.. (sorry)

So, it's time to give this beauty a bump!

Congrats on this very nice build ma_sha!! Very informative thread about with the discussions about the posibillities of getting the SST50 (and 90..) to match the XR-E throw monsters.
I'm starting testing myself soon with SST50 and SST90 setups for my new LedBlaster light,
so this is very informative.


All the best,

Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 22, 2010)

Thanks Ra.

It's an honor to be complements by you!

This light started my Mag/Other light Hybrid type of build. I sold this light 
but it's been replaced my a similar but slight more output MagDrgaon:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/280670


I am also about to post a new Build, MagDragon Jr. , It has surpassed DEFT FTP with a slightly smaller lens.


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## Ra (Aug 23, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks Ra.
> 
> It's an honor to be complements by you!
> 
> ...







Ra.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 23, 2010)

Ra said:


> Ra.



Ra,

The MagDragon Jr. was born, ~150,000 lux @ 1 meter:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/288704
.
.


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## bigchelis (Aug 23, 2010)

I love this MagDeft you got going on.


You are almost going to hit 200k lux at 1m on a handheld flashlight too. Keep going, dont give up


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 23, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> I love this MagDeft you got going on.
> You are almost going to hit 200k lux at 1m on a handheld flashlight too. Keep going, dont give up



Thanks BigC,

I am cooking on the sequal of the Franken Mag Series. The next episode will be called "MagDaddy" . I am pretty confident that it'll blow away the 200K [email protected] meter mark, just wish the parts I ordered are here already, my hands are getting itchy & I am sweating because of the excitement & anticipation... :naughty:


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## Ra (Aug 24, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> I love this MagDeft you got going on.
> 
> 
> You are almost going to hit 200k lux at 1m on a handheld flashlight too. Keep going, dont give up




Uhhh.. '200k lux at 1m on a handheld flashlight'..? I did that already some time ago, with my mini-HID.. 250k lux at 1m from a 2D mag sized torch.. See link at bottom of my post.



It has taken a few years, but led's now definitely have surpassed even the most powerfull (on surface brightness) halogens. Even the average HID's only have their lumens output as the only advantage left.

If this doesn't stop, the short arc's are next.. But that still is a very long way to go..
Jumping from halogen to HID means roughly 3-5 times the surface brightness, from HID to short arc more like 20 times.. (make that 35 for Maxablasters Hg short arc..)

I must admit, a few years ago, I was very sceptic about led's ever reaching the top halogens on surface brightness.. Now look what happens!! In this case I don't mind to be wrong, led's already were very practical in use, but with the high surface brightness they reach today, they are even more complete!


Regards,

Ra.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 24, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*

I still want to see some kind of active cooling setup in this thing. 

Did you end up using thermal epoxy to join the head and the battery tube? Have you considered soldering the emitter directly to the heatsink as saabluster suggested? Even if you use thermal epoxy to mount the LED to the heatsink, just getting the star out of the way should keep the emitter considerably cooler.


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 24, 2010)

*Re: Franken MagDEFT SSR-50 thrower*



fyrstormer said:


> I still want to see some kind of active cooling setup in this thing.
> 
> Did you end up using thermal epoxy to join the head and the battery tube? Have you considered soldering the emitter directly to the heatsink as saabluster suggested? Even if you use thermal epoxy to mount the LED to the heatsink, just getting the star out of the way should keep the emitter considerably cooler.




No active cooling, I've certainly thought about it many times. Perhaps when I get to Triple SST-90 in a mag at some point? The head & Tube for MagDEFT was jointed by JB Weld.

When I did the MagDragon after the MagDEF: (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/280670),
I used bare SST-90 bare led Thermo Glued to Brightlumen's heat sink instead of using stars. I do believe w/o star is better, 
but I don't think it made any difference at the 5-6Amp driving current level.

*MagDEFT:. . SSR-50 Star on Modified H22a P7 heat sink, 5Amp, 75mm lens ~115 K lux
MagDragon:SST-50 bare led on Brightlumen's heat sink, 6 Amp, 75mm lens ~125 K lux*

I would contribute the increase of lux to the extra Amp, not bare led over star.

However, in my "Shock the led to decrease Vf" test with SST-90 bare led/brightlumen's heat sink combo, 
I was able to drive SST-90 to over 15 Amp w/o seeing angry blue, which I didn't attempt it with a star. 
I think the bare LED is a better mounting method at higher current level (I used Arctic silver).
No differences were observed at the the 5-6 Amp level. I think at this level, both methods are adequate. 
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:S5C7HgDXREIJ:www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php%3Ft%3D273748+sst-90+diy+15amp&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


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## saabluster (Aug 24, 2010)

Ra said:


> It has taken a few years, but led's now definitely have surpassed even the most powerfull (on surface brightness) halogens. Even the average HID's only have their lumens output as the only advantage left.
> 
> If this doesn't stop, the short arc's are next.. But that still is a very long way to go..
> Jumping from halogen to HID means roughly 3-5 times the surface brightness, from HID to short arc more like 20 times.. (make that 35 for Maxablasters Hg short arc..)
> ...


I'm glad to see you are seeing where things are heading. I have been saying it for years. LEDs will be able to beat even the very best HIDs have to offer in the throw department. It is important to remember that LEDs do not have to match an HID's surface brightness to out-throw them due to the collimation methods available to the LED which are not feasible for HIDs.


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## Ra (Aug 24, 2010)

saabluster said:


> I'm glad to see you are seeing where things are heading. I have been saying it for years. LEDs will be able to beat even the very best HIDs have to offer in the throw department. It is important to remember that LEDs do not have to match an HID's surface brightness to out-throw them due to the collimation methods available to the LED which are not feasible for HIDs.



You mean of cource the posibillity to use aspherical lenses (and high quality TIR's) with led's... Indeed the 'conventional' reflectors used with HID have a lower throw efficiency than an aspherical lens..
That indeed has to be taken into account..

It means that earlier, I only made led based lights because they are practical, but now, I'm going to make them because they are even more practical, because now they can throw as well..

Regards,

Ra.


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