# Definition of a Budget Light?



## el soluna (Dec 21, 2015)

Hey guys just wonder how cheap a light would you call a "budget" light coz one day my friend asked me to recommend a budget light (yeah I have some authority), he said he expected pricing around $120-150. Hell it makes a main tank for me already. He did make me feel less guilty buying the P12GT but also left me thinking how guys define a budget light. Any opinions?

P.S. I know "budget" doesn't just mean cheap, it also requires quality. But when we buy, we all have a price in mind, don't we?


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## Timothybil (Dec 21, 2015)

This discussion came up when the forum first started. I believe the consensus was that $50 would be the extreme high end of the budget spectrum, with most being near or under around $25.


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## nbp (Dec 21, 2015)

Timothybil said:


> This discussion came up when the forum first started. I believe the consensus was that $50 would be the extreme high end of the budget spectrum, with most being near or under around $25.



This sounds about right. For $150 you are well into high quality production lights, in the range of Malkoffs and Surefires.


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## ven (Dec 21, 2015)

Budget as is a hard one, $30 to some is not budget,then again $1000 can be to some on here :laughing:

Personally i dont look at it too much with cost, more on the actual light itself. If i went crazy and bought an ultrafire light for $150, would that be a budget light...........well yes to me in the actual quality.

Money wise, dependent on cell, if AAA as an example then $30 is not a budget light, if $30 on an 18650 light its border line for me. Example of budget would be DQG spy, kind of a budget brand and tiny light, yet can command $50 in some shops............

So budget for me is what i am prepared to spend on a dedicated light for a specific use, spending $20 on a light does not always mean to me i am getting a budget light.


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## bykfixer (Dec 21, 2015)

^^ well put

I tend to think of a check out counter multi led as a cheap light. Regardless of price. It's not suited for much abuse and probably won't last long with daily use.
But in terms of budget light the consensus seems to be a $50 price tag.
To this guy a Sure Fire G2xPro is a budget Sure Fire light and a Streamlight Polytac is a budget Streamlight. 
It's made by a high end type of company for a lot less money in order to draw in a customer who'd ordinarily buy some other brand in the $50-75 price range. 

So my mind evokes $35 as the price point in general simply because for $5 more in many instances you enter a different plane in terms of build quality. 

Some of those Asian lights are amazing values for under $35. Others are junk for $75. 

I suppose budget light means something different to differing people. But like I said a particular $ price isn't always what causes this guy to call it a 'budget' light or not.


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## Borad (Dec 21, 2015)

The EVEREADY® LED Economy Flashlight, 1xD, ​​​​ sells for $4.29 at True Value Hardware. I wouldn't go higher than triple that if someone asked me to buy them a budget flashlight.


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## LeanBurn (Dec 21, 2015)

To me budget is less than $20.


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## Rick NJ (Dec 21, 2015)

I loosely think of (not really define) budget light as the the bottom 10% (or max 25%) of the price spectrum for that particular product and for that particular consumer market. Of course, not having a market analysis at hand, I can only guess.


Note that I did not say "market size". So it is the *price point* that counts, but the amount sold is not relevant. And, also note the word *consumer* in consumer products. Once it goes custom, than price is a variable attribute.

In my estimation (pure guess work),
A $10 18650 flashlight would likely be the bottom 10% in the range of 18650 flashlight prices. If $100 is the most expensive on you found, then, $10 would indeed be the bottom 10%. A $20 light is, well, the more expensive "budget light" but still kind of in-play. A $26 breaks the bottom quartile and it is out of the running as budget light.


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## el soluna (Dec 22, 2015)

Thanks guys you make me feel I am at least normal in the price setting. Mine's also around $30 though my wife's bottom line gets lower. Don't just care about the price. Quality really matters.


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## tops2 (Dec 22, 2015)

When I first came across this forum, budget light is $5-10. Now (depending on type of light), up to $30 *can* be budget light to me. But as others mentioned, it depends on class of light.


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## kingofwylietx (Dec 22, 2015)

The CPF budget light might be around $50, but it's probably closer to $5 for regular non-flashaholic people. 

I've had normal people look at me like I was on crack for spending $50 on a flashlight. You guys here wouldn't blink at $150 ....it's all relative and you have to remember that we are enthusiasts....

i bought a bunch of $5 budget flashlights for one of my daughters birthday parties. It was a sleepover and one of the activities was decorating their lights. 

Go to Walmart, walk to the flashlight aisle, and look to see what the median price is of their 5 cheapest flashlights. That's what 95% of non-CPF people will consider a budget light.


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## fishx65 (Dec 22, 2015)

LeanBurn said:


> To me budget is less than $20.



Me too. It's truly amazing what you can get these days for under 20. I'm blown away by the Convoys I just got for less then 15 bucks each.


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## Sambob (Dec 22, 2015)

i don't know, when hear "budget flashlight" I can't help but think of those all plastic 2xD-cell hardware store ones and I cringe a little, now days If you don't mind the overseas ship time you can get good(not great) flash light for $20 and under.


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## Borad (Dec 22, 2015)

I don't like buying anything that can explode from China. I was even afraid of my no-name Chinese cell phone case. I washed it in a bucket of hot water and laundry detergent.


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## nfetterly (Dec 22, 2015)

The Light Forum that has Budget in the title  had a light put together that you could buy for $25 (Bare or Ano) - it's $40 now on the Chinese sites.

I bought a couple so when my co-workers want to buy a light from me I can fix them up with that one....

For me that's a great budget light.


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## Timothybil (Dec 22, 2015)

I too am partial to the under $30 number, but I have to agree that there are some surprisingly good lights out there for not much money. The ones I have in mind are the special run BLF 348 for around $7, and the Singfire 348 it was based on for the same price. They are some amazingly nice lights, well built and with a very nice beam pattern. I really like the fact that there really isn't a hot spot in the pattern, just a nice smooth beam with no artifacts. That makes it great for up close work.


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## ZMZ67 (Dec 22, 2015)

To some extent I agree with the $30 and under price as a budget light but $20 or less is really what I would be looking to find in that category.


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## el soluna (Dec 22, 2015)

Hi Timothy,

Sounds you've got real good bargains. But as discussed in another post the xxxfire flashlights are always a risk to take. You either get a crazy price-performance ratio or a crazing lump of waste made from some workshop in China. Even the handsome brands disappoint sometimes. I read on a Chinese forum about a terribly assembled Fenix E12 which has a mis-centered LED in its head. I trust the Fenix brand with all I have but I wish budget lights can really mean value other than just cheap.


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## Timothybil (Dec 23, 2015)

el soluna said:


> Hi Timothy,
> 
> Sounds you've got real good bargains. But as discussed in another post the xxxfire flashlights are always a risk to take. You either get a crazy price-performance ratio or a crazing lump of waste made from some workshop in China. Even the handsome brands disappoint sometimes. I read on a Chinese forum about a terribly assembled Fenix E12 which has a mis-centered LED in its head. I trust the Fenix brand with all I have but I wish budget lights can really mean value other than just cheap.


I know, and for the most part I follow the same guidelines. But the chance to get a Nichia 219 light for $7 was just too much to resist, and I was willing to risk that much to find out. I lucked out this time, but who is to say what I would find if I tried it again.


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## TheShadowGuy (Dec 23, 2015)

Personally, I call something "budget" if it's comparables (items in the same class or with similar intended feature sets/uses) are significantly more expensive. It's all relative. To an enthusiast, brands like Thorfire or Thrunite could be budget, and to a layman a sub $4 big box store special might be budget or even the norm, making the aforementioned brands "high end."
So for non-flashaholics looking for "budget" recommendations, I tend to look at sub-$20 lights available at major retailers light Amazon or Wal-mart. For flashaholics, it is a lot more variable depending on the type of light and preferred retailers.

For example, the BLF 348 I would consider a budget Nichia light. Brands like Convoy tend to have a variety of budget offerings as well.


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## KeepingItLight (Dec 23, 2015)

el soluna said:


> Hi Timothy,
> 
> Sounds you've got real good bargains. But as discussed in another post the xxxfire flashlights are always a risk to take. You either get a crazy price-performance ratio or a crazing lump of waste made from some workshop in China. Even the handsome brands disappoint sometimes. I read on a Chinese forum about a terribly assembled Fenix E12 which has a mis-centered LED in its head. I trust the Fenix brand with all I have but I wish budget lights can really mean value other than just cheap.



In the case of *BLF 348*, one thing we had going for us was the power of the group buy. This was a custom build. Prototypes were approved by the leader of the GB. Of course, that was no guarantee against the things you warn about. At the end of the day, the best guarantee an individual had was the 800 other people in the group buy. They would have launched a very big wave of complaint if problems had been widespread. Both the manufacturer and the vendor, therefore, were motivated to make the group buy work.

The same light, without the Nichia emitter, was the subject of a group buy in 2014. That meant there was a track record with this manufacturer, as well.


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## bykfixer (Dec 23, 2015)

I think 'cheap' light and 'budget' light as 2 differing items.
- Cheap evokes visions of products made as inexpensive, poorly made items sold to tight-wads or poor people.
-Budget implies best bang for your buck scenario where you can actually obtain something made with care and sold to folks who want the best product their given amount can buy. 
- Regardless of the $ amount of either. 

Maybe the word value fits in between cheap and budget somewhere?....


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## el soluna (Dec 24, 2015)

Guys thank you so much. You made me feel I'm not alone.


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## ven (Dec 24, 2015)

el soluna said:


> Guys thank you so much. You made me feel I'm not alone.




Yep.............we are all mad too


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## eh4 (Mar 4, 2016)

To me "budget" means quality first, high value for it's price. My budget requires that I read a bunch and save a little bit before acquiring. 
2AA Rayovac Indestructible is a good, cheap budget light to me, as is an L3 Illumination 4 mode AA with Nichia219, but then to me so is a ZL H600w, I just have to save 4-5 times as long to get it. 
Once the ZL and the batteries and charger are bought it's the cheapest to run and most useful of the lights I have. 
To put budget into perspective, I spent more on 10-20$ lights than my H600w before finally getting it, so it's twice the price of a 50$ "budget light" cutoff, but it's eliminated the need for me to keep spending and trying more lights. 
Got it last year, this year I'm getting an Armytek Predator, so I guess my personal use light budget is around 10$ a month. 
I'll keep buying both the AA powered L10 with 4 modes and Nichia, and the AA Rayovac Indestructible as gifts and as spare lights for emergencies. Especially for a car light, once that you don't mind giving away to a stranger in real need, it's hard to beat the 2AA Rayovac.

The epitome of a non budget light would be one that's needlessly expensive, or one that promises a lot for cheap, but then is shoddily made and unreliable, and ends up failing you, hopefully not when you're really counting on it. 
Goes for all tools. 
Isn't there some saying about how a poor man can buy quality, Once. -something like that, we're all constrained by our means or if our means aren't the limiting factor then the amount of good sense we possess will be.


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## Fireclaw18 (Mar 7, 2016)

To me, "budget" varies by type of light.

I don't consider $50 for a small 1xAA pocket light budget. However, I would consider that amount budget for a 4x18650 multi-emitter light.

To determine what is budget, I first determine a baseline from what the common premium brands offer. So I look at manufacturers like Olight, Eagletac, Fenix, Sunwayman, etc. That gives me the premium price point. Anything significantly below that in the same category of light I consider budget. Note that I do not consider "super-premimum" lights like Surefire or HDS in my analysis. I don't consider them relevant in determining a budget light.

I base my determination of "budget light" on the price of the light, not the build quality. 

In terms of quality, budget ranges from cheapie poorly-built knockoffs that cost a few dollars to well-built lights with quality comparable to any premium light (like Convoy), and even customized hobbyist lights with tons of features (like the CPF Italia Cometa).


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 7, 2016)

I think many people (non-CPF) view a Mag-Light still as a higher end flashlight. So for a non-flashaholic definition of budget I would think they mean a decent light of decent quality that will set them back less than a comparable Mag-Light would. 

I also don't think people consider battery cost in the long run when they ask for the budget light. Unless you start talking about them there lights that take those funky CR123 camera batteries that cost a fortune at the corner drug store.


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## dmattaponi (Mar 8, 2016)

I tend to like that under $30 range as being "budget", and I also agree that budget doesn't necessarily equate with "cheap" as in low quality. I just got two new Thrunite lights, one under $30, the other under $25, and both seem to be of good quality and easy on the wallet.


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## harro (Mar 9, 2016)

dmattaponi said:


> I tend to like that under $30 range as being "budget", and I also agree that budget doesn't necessarily equate with "cheap" as in low quality. I just got two new Thrunite lights, one under $30, the other under $25, and both seem to be of good quality and easy on the wallet.



A quality name and a budget price.....what better?!

Seems to be that quite a few name brands are targeting the budget buck, good thing. It might lessen some of the dreadful, no name paperweights that seem to flood todays market...


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## JohnnyBravo (Mar 9, 2016)

For me, budget means $10-25. Mid-range would be $25-99. And high-end is $100 or more, since it's triple digit dollar figures. Oh, and cheapies would be $9.99 or less...


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## mikekoz (Mar 9, 2016)

A budget light is any light that is ignored by most people on this forum!! :nana: Seriously though, it could mean different things to different folks, but to me, any light that is below around $30.00 is a budget light. Your mileage may vary!!


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## eh4 (Mar 10, 2016)

"You're on a budget", vs "the light is on a budget".
For me, I'm on the budget. 
If I found the perfect, future proof light with nearly perfect buck/boost, fine grained programmability, durable parts, easily upgraded, etc. Then it's budgetable at Nearly whatever $. -just a matter of how long it takes to save up to acquire. 
By the same standard, a future proofed Light Saber would be "budget".
So long as the value is high enough, there's no hard price cap, that would be imprudent.


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## dmattaponi (Mar 10, 2016)

harro said:


> A quality name and a budget price.....what better?!
> 
> Seems to be that quite a few name brands are targeting the budget buck, good thing. It might lessen some of the dreadful, no name paperweights that seem to flood todays market...



Agreed


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## flashturtle (Mar 11, 2016)

kingofwylietx said:


> The CPF budget light might be around $50, but it's probably closer to $5 for regular non-flashaholic people.
> 
> I've had normal people look at me like I was on crack for spending $50 on a flashlight. You guys here wouldn't blink at $150 ....it's all relative and you have to remember that we are enthusiasts....
> 
> ...




This pretty much hits the nail on the head. 

A long time ago i thought mag-lites were the only good brands out there. I'm still entry level CPF user but $20 would be the ceiling for flashlights for me, mainly because i dont do much extreme stuff. My cellphone flashlight normally gets the job done for me and i'm a city dweller that never been camping or done tactic training.


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## KowShak (Mar 11, 2016)

To me budget means it's cheap enough to buy a replacement when you break it or lose it. It could even mean cheap enough so you can buy a spare and give it away without thinking about it. We're not talking about shelf queens that you're afraid to get a scratch on because they cost you a month's beer money


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## eh4 (Mar 11, 2016)

KowShak said:


> To me budget means it's cheap enough to buy a replacement when you break it or lose it. It could even mean cheap enough so you can buy a spare and give it away without thinking about it. We're not talking about shelf queens that you're afraid to get a scratch on because they cost you a month's beer money



That's it right there.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Mar 11, 2016)

+1 Good answer. Might even take it a step further to say a budget light is one you don't care if you lose or break.


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## Father Azmodius (Mar 12, 2016)

Any light can fit into the budget with enough overtime and excuses.


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## akhyar (Mar 12, 2016)

Based on my disposable income and the lights that I purchased from China like Convoy S2+, D80 Lucky Sun, I guess $20-30 sounds fair to me


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## dmattaponi (Mar 12, 2016)

Thrunite Archer 1Av2 in neutral white $29.95  Such a bargain I just ordered a second to put away as a backup.


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## JohnnyMac (Mar 16, 2016)

To me, budget depends on the number of cells and the emitter(s). For a single cell, single LED light $20-$30 is budget but for an XHP70 light the Thorfire S70, at $70, is a budget light as well.


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## morsecodelight (Apr 6, 2016)

Factor in battery cost too. Lion aren't exactly cheap but you can get a lot out of them. Charger, thread grease..


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## luxstone (Jun 30, 2016)

I would say that it depends on the value of the light. A $150 light for $50 would be a real budget light .


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## billcoe (Jul 1, 2016)

nfetterly said:


> The Light Forum that has Budget in the title  had a light put together that you could buy for $25 (Bare or Ano) - it's $40 now on the Chinese sites. I bought a couple so when my co-workers want to buy a light from me I can fix them up with that one....
> 
> For me that's a great budget light.



Agreed! I think budget can include a great deal. For example, the BLF Q8 is going to be produced and they're are saying it should be @$40. $40 for a flashlight would seem like a lot of scratch to most normal folks for a flashlight, but an enthusiast would recognize that is radically underpriced for the power you get. If you can get a $150 flashlight for $40, that's a Budget Light despite it costing $40.


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## dgbrookman (Jul 9, 2016)

"Budget light" = any light that my wife won't take exception to if she finds out how much I paid for it.

In practice around $20 or less. Cheap lights have gotten so good that the average person who doesn't have a specialized use doesn't need to spend more than that. 

I differ from some here in that I don't think "budget" necessarily equates to "value for money spent." Sure, if you're an enthusiast you might consider a $50 or even $100 light a "bargain" in terms of what it does for the price. But that's not a budget light. Just like you can argue that a Porsche Boxster is a great value for the money -- but it's not an economy car.


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## bigbob76 (Jul 10, 2016)

ZMZ67 said:


> To some extent I agree with the $30 and under price as a budget light but $20 or less is really what I would be looking to find in that category.



Most of my life I bought unusual flashlights with no concern for performance. Now I am amazed at the performance available for $3-$20. Having said that I would spend $100-$200 for a light that filled a specific need.


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## bykfixer (Jul 10, 2016)

^^ Same here bigbob. Still do if it does a specific task no others do. I still scour certain stores who carry items like book reading flashlights or pop in auto part stores I keep driving past thinking 'hmmm I wonder if they have a telescoper'...


Those are budget lights in terms of $20-30 price range. But they are worth their weight in gold when used for their specific role.
Some have been used for several years with no issues. 

In the past I'd occasionaly buy a flashlight for parts as the battery(s) and bulbs it came with would cost more to purchase than the whole flashlight. $2 6 volt lanterns for example. And if you ever needed switch parts or a spring...you got 'em. 

I figure the Wal Mart test is like this...
Everything at eye level near the Maglites would not be seen as a budget light by the masses. The further you go left or right from there, and the lower it is on the shelf the more 'budget friendly' the lights are. Aaaaaaall the way to the far left is your buck 99 Eveready lights, with a few $6 Rayovac lights to make folks ponder "well it's $6, it must be better"...

I go for the Ozark Trail that catches my fancy. The Bushnell are pretty good but way over priced vs a similar quality Ozark Trail. But the Bushnell have that 'tacti-cool' look that all those Yeti cooler crowd dig on. Notice they are next to... the Maglites. 

To this flashlight junkie, those are the traditional budget lights.

But these days with Asian factories churning out millions of flashlights per day, a whole bunch of budget lights are being churned out by a whole bunch of companies posing as premium lights based on price and features. But that's another subject for another time.


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## -JP (Aug 20, 2016)

That last paragraph really hit home. As a newb to collecting I suddenly realized this after reading much on this forum but most don't realize that unfortunately. Anyway budget to me is all relative to individuals. I don't think I can come up with a definition other then what I feel comfortable spending.


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## leon2245 (Aug 24, 2016)

el soluna said:


> [h=2]Definition of a Budget Light?


[/h]

deciding which lights get assigned or reassigned to this subforum, its usually by brand, and generally the brands commonly found in big box, hardware, discount warehouse stores, and the ones imported by all those big chinese electronics warehouse importers. I don't care for drawing this line. Some budget brands will have an occasional higher priced model, and there are lower end models by brands discussed in the main forum. I miss out on some good ones that only get discussed here. And ultimately is a false distinction, because the definition of a budget light is entirely dependent on anyone's particular budget.


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## bykfixer (Aug 24, 2016)

Check out wimmer21 post count. Over 12


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## ven (Aug 24, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Check out wimmer21 post count. Over 12



I am at 13.3 


:laughing:


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## NiTyson (Aug 26, 2016)

My definition of a budget light is one that has "economy". In other words, good "bang for the buck". My Convoy S2+ is a good example. It's bright, small, has decent runtime, and built well, all for around $20. You could spend a LOT more for a 1X18650 light, and get a flashlight that has few PRACTICAL improvements over mine. I don't care if the body is made of rarest unobtaneum, gold plated, has a diamond lens, and runs off unicorns, I care about how good it is at being a flashlight for the money. That means an expensive flashlight to me is one that cost too much for what your'e getting. A CHEAP flashlight to me is those rubbishy plastic-y ones you find in a dark aisle in Walmart. Those are terrible, and I do not consider them budget because you will end up spending more on them in the long run.


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## smokeyeager (Aug 27, 2016)

To me the epitome of budget light is the 27 LED Portable Worklight/Flashlight that sells for $3.99 + tax at the stores around me. It has 1 push button that activates 2 modes of light, either a 3 LED "flashlight" or a bank of 24 LED lights that make up the "work" light. It has a built in hook that rotates and a magnet on the backside. It runs on 3aaa and can be used in many places for many reasons. I keep 2 in my BOB in the place of a lantern. Placed on the deck or hung from a tree it lights up a decent area while not weighing a lot at all. The real "best bets" for budget friendly would be any decent light that runs aa. There are a lot of nice lights that run not so common batteries, aa can be found just about everywhere.


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## dmattaponi (Nov 15, 2016)

Under $50


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## Fman (Jan 2, 2017)

Hello all, I'm new here as a member but have looked to this forum over the past few years for good info. I would call a budget light anything between the $20 mark on the high end, down to the free Harbor Freight lights. At one time I had 12 of those freebies. That may have been the first signs of a flashoholic. 

John


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## Loomun (Jan 2, 2017)

Everyone has a different meaning of budget

My guess is that for those that are not a flashaholic they probably feel that a budget light is 5 to 10 dollars.


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## Fman (Jan 2, 2017)

The most I've spent for a flashlight, so far, is $35. I have three that are at that price point, a Coast HP7 (my first), Astrolux S1, and Nitecore EC20. Considering the output that can be had for the money maybe my challenge will be to not pay more than that and see how much flashlight I can get for no more than $35. We shall see. 

John


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## eraursls1984 (Jan 4, 2017)

I think it depends. If we're talking AAA I'd say budget is under $20. For single cell 18650 lights I'd say under $50.


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## Mr Baz (Jan 5, 2017)

I reviewed a MyCarbon MF19 that was a budget 18650 light and was pretty good overall price was about £27 so probably around $35


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## sbslider (Jan 8, 2017)

dmattaponi said:


> Thrunite Archer 1Av2 in neutral white $29.95  Such a bargain I just ordered a second to put away as a backup.


 Ahhh, I could not resist commenting on this post. I was planning on making the Archer 1A V3 my second light purchase, (fenix ld01 being my first) but somehow managed to buy a nitecore MT1A instead. The MT1A is not too bad, but I already dislike the presence of the strobes in the "main" lineup. It did come in handy today as I found myself in a cave, and if performed admirably in there. Back on topic, I would agree with the $30 line as the max for the "budget" light.

Matt


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