# PhlatLight new SST-90 LED



## PsychoBunny

So does anyone know if this new LED is being used yet in
flashlights?
Has anyone ordered a sample to experiment with?

http://www.led-professional.com/content/view/1285/29/

It's made by Luminus Devices, Inc and is said to produce up to
2,500 lumens when driven at full input (20W? a guess)

That sounds pretty awesome to me! 

I am imagining a head with a cluster of 3 of theses puppies!! :huh:

I wonder how much heat sinking would be needed?


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## dilbert

Here's the PDF Datasheet


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## rayman

I think you need a really good heatsink. It is a single die LED but the die is 3x3mm so it'll get really hot driven at 9A.

Would be nice to get one for testing but I think they'll be pretty expensive .

rayman


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## bshanahan14rulz

considering their current lineup seems to sell around 75 bucks a pop, these new white ones could be 80 or 90 smackeroonies! Interesting, though, large single-die LED, good point light source...


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## Gryloc

Just consider the price divided by nine. It should not be much more expensive than 9 1mm^2 die emitters. Its nice seeing a single emitter that can produce that many lumens. Mated with a bigger reflector, you can get a nice, donut-less beam! If you are up to the investment, and you need a brighter light than what you can get from the typical quad-emitter Maglite, then this looks like an awesome product. An easy mod would be this on H22A's P7 heatsinks in a Mag. If you use a custom body and a turbo head, then you will have a monster! How about attaching it to a huge heatsink and putting it into a lantern with a large reflector? This looks like it could be a fun emitter to use. Boy, things are going fast in the LED world lately, and the future looks bright ... Thanks for the info!

-Tony


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## PsychoBunny

What circuitry would be used to drive one of these LED's?
And how many/kind of batteries?

They are 9mm square, that's kind of big to fit in a existing
model for modding!


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## HarryN

If you think of it like any other single die package, then it gets easier to consider how to manage it.

For light management, a reflector is not going to be of much use - just go down the aspherical lens path right away. Shape the beam to your desires by defocusing the setup.

LEDs are most efficient when under driven - which makes this thing wonderful for even 5 amps. That can be run with a single 18650 cell with 0.5 - 1 ohm resistor at 2 C - no problem, no fancy driver needed.

5 amps x 3.5 Vf is already pushing 20 watts pretty hard. This is right at the edge of hand held comfort with passive cooling. 

If my seat of the pants engineering is close, this thing will be easy to work with. Perfect for my "project tornado" light. (2 of them of course )


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## PsychoBunny

HarryN said:


> If you think of it like any other single die package, then it gets easier to consider how to manage it.
> 
> For light management, a reflector is not going to be of much use - just go down the aspherical lens path right away. Shape the beam to your desires by defocusing the setup.
> 
> LEDs are most efficient when under driven - which makes this thing wonderful for even 5 amps. That can be run with a single 18650 cell with 0.5 - 1 ohm resistor at 2 C - no problem, no fancy driver needed.
> 
> 5 amps x 3.5 Vf is already pushing 20 watts pretty hard. This is right at the edge of hand held comfort with passive cooling.
> 
> If my seat of the pants engineering is close, this thing will be easy to work with. Perfect for my "project tornado" light. (2 of them of course )


 

What do you mean a reflector would be of no use? 

You mean dont use one at all?


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## Gryloc

I am sure if you have a big enough of a reflector, it would work. I made a 3mm x 3mm die simulation by taking a piece of diffused plastic, carefully measuring the die shape, then masking off the die with black electrical tape. This way, if I illuminate the back of the diffused plastic with another LED, then only a 3x3 area will be lit. I then try to focus this larger lit area with various reflectors to see how a big die will focus. It created a decent beam with a Streamlight Survivor and the new Maglight LED 2D (rebel) reflector. However, the only thing that I cannot simulate is the increased apparent size of the die when it is magnified by the large dome of the SST-90. You never know until you try. It has to work with a large reflector from a lantern/spotlight, though.

My big question is where would we be able to get one to try when they are released? I hope they sell single quantities. I doubt that I am eligible for a sample. I was thinking of placing it in a Mag and drive it up to 20-30 watts (or until the flashlight cannot dissipate the heat from a medium long burst). Luckily, if you put this in a Maglite, then you can expect slightly better heat transfer by having it connected to H22A's P7 heatsink. It has to be better than the kind of thin multi-emitter heatsink that is being driven with the same amount of wattage with four separate emitters. Is the 20W amount the max amount of wattage that Maglights have been know to be able to dissipate? I always wondered that. It would be great when you underdrive it to 2-3A, or even less. Powering it by a nice buck circuit (like the Shark Buck) with a dimmer potentiometer would be awesome. 1 to 2000lm in a quick twist of a knob.


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## saabluster

Gryloc said:


> My big question is where would we be able to get one to try when they are released? I hope they sell single quantities. I doubt that I am eligible for a sample.


I put in a sample request. Don't know if they are available just yet. I think this definitely has potential to be used in portable lighting.


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## LIGHTSMAD

lovecpf


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## PsychoBunny

bshanahan14rulz said:


> considering their current lineup seems to sell around 75 bucks a pop, these new white ones could be 80 or 90 smackeroonies! Interesting, though, large single-die LED, good point light source...


 
Yeah, they are a bit expensive now, but the price is sure to drop
once they get into production!?

Still, I think it would be fun to experiment with. 
At the rate LED technology is advancing, we may soon see one with
a smaller footprint with even higher output! 

Yikes!! high performance flashlights of the future!! :twothumbs lovecpf

Think of it, 5,000+ lumens in a EDC flashlight for $59.95!!

(dont laugh, I can dream, cant I!?)


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## PsychoBunny

saabluster said:


> I put in a sample request. Don't know if they are available just yet. I think this definitely has potential to be used in portable lighting.


 
Wouldnt it require a HUGE reflector? Bigger than the DEFT!!


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## HarryN

A couple of years ago, we used to routinely pay over $ 60 for a premium bin Lux V. (150 - 200 lumens at that time) If you look at it from that perspective, the pricing is not bad.


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## cerberuss

I'm really impressed with how low the forward voltages are... If Im reading the graph correctly, if you were to use an AMC driver sandwich to power it off a single 18650, it would only fall out of a flat 1000lumen regulation when the battery reaches below 2.8v! (underdriven but cool none the less)

I'm just concerned about the size of the die.. 3x3 is fine but it's placed under a magnifying dome ala mc-e ... which hopefully wont increase apparent die size too much... I'll be waiting for saablusters tests


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## saabluster

PsychoBunny said:


> Wouldnt it require a HUGE reflector? Bigger than the DEFT!!


It doesn't matter what you put it in. It all depends on what beam spread you are after. Obviously if you are trying to match the beam spread that a light will give you using an XR-E you will have to dramatically increase the size of the head. It should work just fine behind the DEFT's lens. The beam will not be as tight or throw as far but it will work.


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## Gryloc

saabluster, you are right. I have a certain idea of what I think is good throw, but other members will have a different idea of what is a good, throwy beam. I would be happy with a Mag that has a beam a bit wider than that of the typical P7 Mag, but it would be completely donut-less. If there would be a dome-less version of this emitter, then the beam would look even smaller. With the SST-90 behind a cheap spotlight reflector, I bet that the beam would be very tight (to me). I bet many think that the beam from a Streamlight Survivor is tight (very pencil beam like), but to me, it is too tight for typical use (for me -I dont hunt or need to light up much too far away). I am just excited about the massive light output!


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## Oznog

Consider this problem:
The chassis wiring ampacity for 9A would be a min of 21ga. In this heated area around the LED, that may not be valid. It may not be possible to use the thinner wires we'd like to use.

I have some super-thin Teflon-coated wire I've been using for a long time, but I doubt that'll work for interconnects on this job. I love the Teflon-coated because it doesn't shrink back when the wire is soldered.


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## IMSabbel

With those ultra-high current leds, i hope there will be some efficient high current drivers, too.

Its still not that easy to get 2.8A drivers for P7...


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## Illum

PsychoBunny said:


> What circuitry would be used to drive one of these LED's?
> And how many/kind of batteries?
> 
> They are 9mm square, that's kind of big to fit in a existing
> model for modding!



no one said they were meant for flashlight modding, It actually sounds good as a road light though


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## BentHeadTX

I was looking at the graph for underdriven performance
From what I gather, at 800mA drive levels it will be sitting at around 2.4 volts  for 1.92 watts. The thing will be pushing 280 to 300 lumens at that level! We are talking 150 lumens per watt  
At 1.5 amps, it is sitting at 2.6V for 3.9 watts of drive and cranking out 500 lumens. I am thinking 3D Mag with a buck regulator that will shut down at around 3V naturally to protect the NiMH cells. 500 lumens at 3.9 watts? 
Give me 4 of those for room lighting with an adjustable current regulator from 25mA to 3 amps.


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## ledstein

I requested this item. It seems not really available... I cant buy it up to now. It must be only some marketing flick.


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## monkeyboy

Nice find Psychobunny. This is exciting news. 3x3mm die with no gaps shouldn't be too hard to collimate in something the size of a [email protected] head. The footprint is relatively small too at 10x11mm. The only problem I can foresee is finding a 9A driver as is mentioned above. I guess it may be possible to parallel a few constant current driver boards or even use a constant voltage driver and fine tune the voltage to each individual LED.

I really hope that this is not an April fool. It's coming up to that time of the year...


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## bshanahan14rulz

heat management and power source are the limiting factors, from what I understand. Heat management? just put a fan in it and double the torch as a hand/face warmer, have a vent on the side where the warm air comes out. And I'm sure somebody will find a good way to supply it enough power.


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## monkeyboy

I've been checking out the website and there's another product, the CST-90 which appears to be the the same die, only it comes built in to a board with a integrated thermistor and they rate it up to 13.5A.


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## Th232

Interesting, I've just been flipping through the datasheet, one of the notes says:



> Special design considerations must be observed for operation under 1 A. Please contact Luminus for further information.



Wonder what happens below that.

Edit: Sent them an email asking what happens, and about availability in the future.


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## HarryN

Th232 said:


> Interesting, I've just been flipping through the datasheet, one of the notes says:
> 
> Wonder what happens below that.
> 
> Edit: Sent them an email asking what happens, and about availability in the future.



Probably the same thing that happens to any large area LED. If you take a 1 x 1 mm die based package (most any supplier) and run just a few ma through it, the color is off, only part of the die lights up, etc.


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## saabluster

Th232 said:


> Interesting, I've just been flipping through the datasheet, one of the notes says:
> 
> 
> 
> Wonder what happens below that.
> 
> Edit: Sent them an email asking what happens, and about availability in the future.


What HarryN said. It would require PWM to get lower current out of that LED and still have it light up _and_ have acceptable color.


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## Th232

Ahh, thanks for the info guys.:thumbsup:


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## zcaiyb

I think it must be very hot under the maximum rated drive current, which may be 10A I guess.


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## Nerd

I'm pretty sure nobody is going to put 3 of these in a Maglite and drive em at 9 amps each 

Right guys? :naughty:


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## strideredc

just done it? havent you


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## Illum

Nerd said:


> I'm pretty sure nobody is going to put 3 of these in a Maglite and drive em at 9 amps each
> 
> Right guys? :naughty:



with 8 gauge wires going out back to your 40 lb battery backpack along with a pair of welding gloves....


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## BentHeadTX

Illum said:


> with 8 gauge wires going out back to your 40 lb battery backpack along with a pair of welding gloves....



I think I know how to do it!

Get three of those LEDs and the drive level would be about 10V at 9 amps in series. Throw a buck regulator on there to drop the voltage from a Dewalt 36V (actually 32 volt) LiFePO4 2.4 pound battery pack. Calculate 90% for the drive so the pack will see 3.25 amp draw. The battery is rated 2.3Ah so you get over 40 minutes of runtime. 

Maybe one of those giant copper heat sinks for quad core processors and stuff it in the Dewalt flashlight head. 

I think it would be easier to run 11 of the LEDs straight from the battery. It is stable under load at 33 volts so that should give you about 2-3 amps to each LED. That CPU copper cooler better run a fan! 

Will you carry a 5 pound flashlight that pushes out well over 10,000 lumens of flood beam?


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## Illum

BentHeadTX said:


> Will you carry a 5 pound flashlight that pushes out well over 10,000 lumens of flood beam?



given the nature of LED lights and all the additional heatsinking...I think you might be better off using 175-400W HID lamp assemblies...


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## BentHeadTX

Illum said:


> given the nature of LED lights and all the additional heatsinking...I think you might be better off using 175-400W HID lamp assemblies...



I'll wait for the quad SST LED, hook two of them up in series and 3 XP-G LEDs with spot optics on them. It can all run without regulators as the A123 Lithium Iron Nanophosphate pack generally is almost dead at 30V. The 2V variance will make it work. Wonder how much all that stuff will cost?


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## moviles

nice powerful led
price? 
were to buy this led?


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## lumen_eater

http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store...201&term=SST%2D90&x=0&y=0&N=0&action=products there it is for 33.0 bucks :twothumbs


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## old4570

There is also a SST-50 which might be OK as well for general flashlight work !


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## old4570

lumen_eater said:


> http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store...201&term=SST%2D90&x=0&y=0&N=0&action=products there it is for 33.0 bucks :twothumbs



No Stock 9 Week Factory Lead Time ...


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## saabluster

old4570 said:


> No Stock 9 Week Factory Lead Time ...


Production is still ramping up.


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## moviles

the big broters:

*cst-90* *2750* lumens 13.5 amp 3.4 v(can be powered by one aw18650 imr) 





http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten...__cst_90_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf

*cbm-360-w* *4500* lumens 12v






http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten..._cbm_360_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf

http://www.luminus.com/


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## bshanahan14rulz

anybody who requested samples receive a reply yet?


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## AlexGT

I'm willing to try one out as soon as they are in stock. Do you think a Tri flupic will be able to run it at the maximum 3.6A from a 4.2V 6600mah li-ion battery?


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## TexLite

AlexGT said:


> I'm willing to try one out as soon as they are in stock. Do you think a Tri flupic will be able to run it at the maximum 3.6A from a 4.2V 6600mah li-ion battery?



With a Vf of ~3.2V @ 3.6A it should. 3.6A is 40% of the max current of 9.0A.

-Michael


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## RusDyr

moviles said:


> the big broters:
> 
> *cst-90* *2750* lumens 13.5 amp 3.4 v(can be powered by one aw18650 imr)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten...__cst_90_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf
> 
> *cbm-360-w* *4500* lumens 12v
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten..._cbm_360_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf
> 
> http://www.luminus.com/


Holy ...! Megamonsters, wow... I'm waiting for a massive car lights with it, especially with last one. CBM-360-W looks like killer of HID and other lights at all. Wow again. I'm impressed.


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## clint357

Couldn't you drive this with a CCHIPO? If so, I'll throw one into one of my driving lights.


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## lumen_eater

the cbm-360-w is rather ineficient (about 74 lm/w @ 3.2 A ) :thumbsdow


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## moviles

lumen_eater said:


> the cbm-360-w is rather ineficient (about 74 lm/w @ 3.2 A ) :thumbsdow



74 lum /w its ok for me the ssc p7 has only 68lum/w at 3.2 A

lum/w p7 bin c





*i want the sst-90 and cst 90 now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## taschenlampe

moviles said:


> 74 lum /w its ok for me the ssc p7 has only 68lum/w at 3.2 A
> 
> lum/w p7 bin c


 
SSC P7 D-bin has 72lm/W @ 3,2A


tl


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## Aircraft800

Where is the *SST-90-W*? 

Any new news? Anyone figure out how to drive it at Max 9A, some big Emoli cells. It looks promising at lower current levels such as at 3.2A producing 1200 lumen, but Brightlumens just sold out of the prototype huge P7 heatsinks he had left, I knew I should have jumped on a few of them :ironic:

Little bump here.


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## AlexGT

I am wondering how is the color tint coding for these new leds in relation to known seoul and Luxeon leds.

Am I reading the luminus Chromaticity graph right?

G3 Luminus = YO in luxeon / Seoul
H3 Luminus = XO in luxeon / Seoul
J3 Luminus = WO in luxeon / Seoul
K3 Luminus = VO in luxeon / Seoul
K4 Luminus = V1 in luxeon / Seoul

I just want to make sure to be ready when they start selling.

AlexGT


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## IsaacHayes

This would be awesome with an aspheric. Make a great spotlight.

Or even a reflector. If you think about it, a luxV and MCE has bigger die area than 
3x3 more like over 4x4...

Plus it's all solid one die so no cross/dark hole in the center beam....


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## Barbarin

I'm sure the reflectors we are using now for P7's would work really good with this LED, so I would love to test one as soon as possible... but I have no response from the factory, unfortunately.


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## moviles

someone ordered one??
i want one now!!!!!!


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## Gunner12

IsaacHayes said:


> ...If you think about it, a luxV and MCE has bigger die area than
> 3x3 more like over 4x4...


The Lux V, MC-E, and P7 all have 4 1mm x 1mm dies, which medna they have a surface area of 4 mm^2. The SST-90 has 9mm^2.



> Plus it's all solid one die so no cross/dark hole in the center beam....



That's the good part, I wonder how long before we see a modder use one in a light.


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## sn0wBLiND

The dimensions of the bare emitter seem to be close to the cree xr-e -package :candle: 
Heat management _might_ be an issue though


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## AlexGT

I'm ready to use one right now! Who's selling? 

AlexGT


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## ergotelis

AlexGT said:


> I'm ready to use one right now! Who's selling?
> 
> AlexGT



I would like to find some too! But i guess in CPF a lot of people would like too!Can someone member arrange a group buy?
We desperatly need these leds!!!!:devil:lovecpf


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## Aircraft800

I got an email from Luminus Devices, Inc. saying that Avnet had them, but the order LINK doesn't show them as available. I'm supposed to get an update from Advent when they are in stock. 

Hopefully someone else has better news.


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## ergotelis

Come on guys hurry up this is something exciting!Group buy now! If i was in US i would easily organize that!


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## ergotelis

I sent them an email and i already got an answer!There is a EU distributor that has also an office here in Greece and there is a case to organize a group buy. I have never done this before, but if there is enough interest i might give a try and check what is possible to do. Except if someone is able to do so somewhere else in the world and he can achieve a better price, because i guess someone in US will be able to get a better price.

I will be in contact with the distributor here and i will inform you about availability and prices to see if it is possible to arrange the group buy.


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## Tirodani

sn0wBLiND said:


> The dimensions of the bare emitter seem to be close to the cree xr-e -package :candle:
> Heat management _might_ be an issue though



It clearly will be an issue. I think the SST-50 is a much more sensible package for lights. Smaller die area (5mm2, just larger than MC-E), over 1250 lumens at max of 5A (which might still be too much to heatsink), $19 at Avnet instead of $33 for the SST-90 (though of course you still can't actually buy either one).

Why pay more for an LED with larger die area and power capability that can't be used because it gets too hot?

Of course, I'm sure someone will eventually figure out how to manage the 90 in a Mag... I still think the 50's where it's at for now, though.


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## Benson

Tirodani said:


> It clearly will be an issue. I think the SST-50 is a much more sensible package for lights. Smaller die area (5mm2, just larger than MC-E), over 1250 lumens at max of 5A (which might still be too much to heatsink), $19 at Avnet instead of $33 for the SST-90 (though of course you still can't actually buy either one).


And the SST-50 is an _exact_ match to the XR-E footprint.



> Why pay more for an LED with larger die area and power capability that can't be used because it gets too hot?


Well, the larger die area is a problem for throw, but if you want it floody, you _will_ get more light and less heat out of the big one at the same current.



> Of course, I'm sure someone will eventually figure out how to manage the 90 in a Mag... I still think the 50's where it's at for now, though.


Agreed. Although, like I said, if you live for flood, dropping the 90 in and driving it like a 50 is only $14 more for significantly better performance. If I wanted a _practical_ light, that would make more sense. But practicality's overrated; gimme a SST50 thrower!


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## clint357

So, who's making the 5A driver for the little guy and the 9A driver for the biggie? For now I would have to make an external driver for automotive use with The CCHIPPO.


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## Outdoors Fanatic

It still smells like Vaporware to me...


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## ergotelis

Well i got a price for sst90 should go 40euro/led, but i will have them in 8-10 weeks. I guess someone else will have them till then right?


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## callmaster

A quad of em would light up the town!


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## znomit

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> It still smells like Vaporware to me...


 
Not vapor, vaporizing!


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## moviles

ergotelis said:


> Well i got a price for sst90 should go 40euro/led, but i will have them in 8-10 weeks. I guess someone else will have them till then right?



were you buy it? here?
http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store...rohs=&storeId=500201&term=SST-90w&topSellers=

its with star?





what model? 
the *SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100* 
PHLATLIGHT WHITE LED, 2250 LUMENS, CCT 6500K, CRI 70 , 31$ 
9 Week Factory Lead Time???

I want buy too


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## Nos




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## monkeyboy

I'm surprised that these are so cheap, e.g. it's much cheaper than 9 x cree XR-E or a single osram ostar 6-chip. The cost of semiconductor devices usually increases exponentially with die size.


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## lumen_eater

i think it isnt 1 chip its multiple long chips in paralel as it seems


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## monkeyboy

lumen_eater said:


> i think it isnt 1 chip its multiple long chips in paralel as it seems



It says that on the website that it's a monolithic die. Maybe there are several long structures but etched on the same piece of semiconductor so there are no gaps.


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## Illum

monkeyboy said:


> I'm surprised that these are so cheap, e.g. it's much cheaper than 9 x cree XR-E or a single osram ostar 6-chip. The cost of semiconductor devices usually increases exponentially with die size.



lets just hope its just a fluke and the actual performance wouldn't be phlat:thinking:


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## moviles

no way to find on stock jet





http://www.ebv.com/en/advanced-search.html?no_cache=1&tx_ebvsearch_pi1[stype]=inv&tx_indexedsearch[sword]=sst-90&tx_indexedsearch[type]=2&tx_ebvsearch_pi1[man]=ALL_LINES&tx_ebvsearch_pi1[cur]=EUR&ct_ref=u58-c302






http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store...rohs=&storeId=500201&term=SST-90w&topSellers=


someone know what model is with star?


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## clint357

Just ordered one.


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## Nos

still havent seen any magmod with that baby, dd with a imr would be soooooo easy in a mag 1D :devil:


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## taschenlampe

moviles said:


> ... someone know what model is with star?


 

None of these I think – the star mounted led’s should have "-*R*11-" in the 
Part Number.

tl


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## moviles

I have found the star model its the ss*r*-90 WRITE


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## lumen_eater

i would love to see one of those sst 90s in an [email protected] 3c host with 2 of those : http://www.lipoly.de/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=255_109_764 cells they wont have any problem with the current (they go up to about 50A ) and i think cooling will be doable with an costume head with cooling fins and maybe heatpipes for even heat distribution


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## moviles

THE NEW BIG BROTHER
6000 LUMENS!!!!!!!!!






http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten..._csm_360_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf


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## lumen_eater

not new and less eficient ... it would be OVER 9000 if it would have full eficancie


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## moviles

*lol*, the csm360 and sst-90are more eficient than p7 bin c, without blackhole and much more powerful

csm 360: 100lumens/w (350 ma mm2)
sst-90: 100 lumens/w (350 ma mm2)

p7 bin c: 90lumens /w (350 ma mm2) 0.35x4 mm2=1.4amp





at full power

csm 360: 6.3amp x 13.6v= 85w 6000lum/85w= 70.1lumens/w
sst-90: 9 amps x 3.6v = 32W 2250lum/32W = 70.2lumens/w
p7 at 2.8a amp 70lum/w
p7 at 4.65 amp 55lum/w


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## jason 77

moviles said:


> csm 360: 6.3amp x 13.6v= 85w 6000lum/85w= 70.1lumens/w
> sst-90: 9 amps x 3.6v = 32W 2250lum/32W = 70.2lumens/w


 
Wait so how is the CSM 360 less efficent than the sst-90 if it is putting out 6000lum at 6.3 amps while the sst-90 is putting out 2250lum at 9 amps?

Or am I missing something?


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## spencer

The CSM has four dies in series so four times the power. You could equate it down to:
6000 lm at 25.2A and
2250 at 9A.


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## taschenlampe

moviles said:


> *lol*, the csm360 and sst-90are more eficient than p7 bin c, without blackhole and much more powerful
> 
> csm 360: 100lumens/w (350 ma mm2)
> sst-90: 100 lumens/w (350 ma mm2)
> 
> p7 bin c: 90lumens /w (350 ma mm2) 0.35x4 mm2=1.4amp ...


 

Again:

The top-bin of P7 is D - NOT C

Member “jtr1962” has tested the D-bin P7 with

95,6 lm/w @ 1,4A
76,1 lm/w @ 2,8A
72,3 lm/w @ 3,2A

The data of the luminus LEDs are predictions!

csm360 is a four die LED - it will have a blackhole!

I also do hope for more efficient LEDs than we have now – but the proof of the pudding 
is in the eating ...

tl


----------



## moviles

taschenlampe said:


> csm360 is a four die LED - it will have a blackhole!



true, the best leds for flashlights will be the sst-90 with star (ssr-90)
and sst-50 with stat(ssr-50)


----------



## lumen_eater

ups confused something there i thought the cms-360 was less efficient than the sst-90


----------



## moviles

*SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100-X

the model with star and 6500k
*


----------



## Erasmus

Was anyone able to get some samples of these? I got in touch with the European distributor, waiting for pricelists now. If anyone has more useful info, please post or PM  

They sent me a summarizing overview of their white LEDs which is interesting because it also states the efficacies at different drive levels. I uploaded it for you guys, here you go http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=30a0121f5040af9e2fb2ca15d7ea42d9e04e75f6e8ebb871


----------



## ma_sha1

Can't wait to see one on Mag D,
Shouldn't be any hotter than Triple P7. A big heat sink should do it.


----------



## moviles

no way to find the *SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100-X *on stock(sst-90 with 19mm star), I dont want wait 7 weeks for feel the power of this led .
I want it now!!!:hairpull:


----------



## old4570

I sent them an email asking about the LED and availability , distributors etc and nothing ..


----------



## Glenn7

ma_sha1 said:


> Can't wait to see one on Mag D,
> Shouldn't be any hotter than Triple P7. A big heat sink should do it.



maybe this led might give a brighter hot spot for throw - but IMO 3 x P7 would give more over all lumen's output (even if its a floody light)


----------



## Erasmus

I have found a distributor who has samples on stock, I'll keep you guys posted when I receive more info about binning and pricing, if anyone is then interested to buy one of these I will sell them at my cost.


----------



## Glenn7

Erasmus said:


> I have found a distributor who has samples on stock, I'll keep you guys posted when I receive more info about binning and pricing, if anyone is then interested to buy one of these I will sell them at my cost.



Yep put me on your list "I'll take one"


----------



## Aircraft800

Erasmus said:


> I have found a distributor who has samples on stock, I'll keep you guys posted when I receive more info about binning and pricing, if anyone is then interested to buy one of these I will sell them at my cost.


 
Put me on the list for a 50 and a 90


----------



## moviles

Erasmus said:


> I have found a distributor who has samples on stock, I'll keep you guys posted when I receive more info about binning and pricing, if anyone is then interested to buy one of these I will sell them at my cost.


i very interested put me on your list :twothumbs

i think the best model its the *SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100 (with star 6500k) or the version 4000k*


----------



## Hallmcc

I would like a couple, Ready when you are.


----------



## ma_sha1

Put me on the list for the one on star.*SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100, 
*


----------



## saabluster

Erasmus said:


> I have found a distributor who has samples on stock, I'll keep you guys posted when I receive more info about binning and pricing, if anyone is then interested to buy one of these I will sell them at my cost.


Good luck finding out the bin. It took constant bugging of the Avnet people to get them to do anything. I have had to hound them just to get a response. They never did tell me what bin I would be receiving. I wouldn't care so much if they were like Cree and let you have some free samples but they want you to pay for unknown bins blindly. They gave me prices and said I could go ahead and order a month ago but I was so sick of dealing with them I finally said just forget it. Hopefully you are dealing with a different distributor. I will buy some from you dependant on the bin. Thank you for your kind offer to CPF. lovecpf


----------



## TexLite

The part numbers that have been posted thus far are bin kits, not individual emitter numbers. 

Emitter Part# Example: SST-90-XXXX-F11-XX-XX

Bin Kit Part# Example: SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100

The one I want? SST-90-W45H-F11-WN-NJ
If it existed, it dosen't, would be Neutral White, High CRI, NJ tint, 1000lm-1200lm @ 3.2A.

What does look like it exists judging by the info so far: SST-90-W40S-F11-WM-Q3
Neutral White, Standard CRI (70), Q3 Tint, 850lm-1000lm @ 3.2A.

If all the distributors have are the kit numbers, they won't be able to tell what individual bins they can sell yet.

-Michael


----------



## moviles

TexLite said:


> The part numbers that have been posted thus far are bin kits, not individual emitter numbers.
> 
> Emitter Part# Example: SST-90-XXXX-F11-XX-XX
> 
> Bin Kit Part# Example: SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100
> 
> The one I want? SST-90-W45H-F11-WN-NJ
> If it existed, it dosen't, would be Neutral White, High CRI, NJ tint, 1000lm-1200lm @ 3.2A.
> 
> What does look like it exists judging by the info so far: SST-90-W40S-F11-WM-Q3
> Neutral White, Standard CRI (70), Q3 Tint, 850lm-1000lm @ 3.2A.
> 
> If all the distributors have are the kit numbers, they won't be able to tell what individual bins they can sell yet.
> 
> -Michael



the model with star are the ssr-90 not the sst-90







*SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100 *the model with 19mm star 6500K*
SSR-90-W45S-R11-GJ500*the model with 19mm star 4500k

datashet:
http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten...2_sst_90_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf


----------



## Aircraft800

I missed an update in my mailbox from Jun 1st:



> Hello Matt,
> 
> We have 3 SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100-X left in stock at $31.00 each. Please let me know if you want to get these on order.
> Thanks,
> *(NAME REMOVED)*
> Sales & Marketing Representative
> Avnet Express


 
I haven't pulled the trigger yet, I'm not sure they are the ones I wanted. Anyone want to split this up?


----------



## wquiles

Aircraft800 said:


> I missed an update in my mailbox from Jun 1st:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't pulled the trigger yet, I'm not sure they are the ones I wanted. Anyone want to split this up?



I will split it with you 

Will


----------



## Aircraft800

wquiles said:


> I will split it with you
> 
> Will


 
If they still have them, I'll grab all three, I'll pass on the other one or two to you.


----------



## saabluster

Aircraft800 said:


> I missed an update in my mailbox from Jun 1st:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't pulled the trigger yet, I'm not sure they are the ones I wanted. Anyone want to split this up?


I will take one if you are still willing. There were probably the three that I requested and just never sent the money for.


----------



## TexLite

moviles said:


> *SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100 *the model with 19mm star 6500K*
> SSR-90-W45S-R11-GJ500*the model with 19mm star 4500k
> 
> datashet:
> http://www.luminus.com/stuff/conten...2_sst_90_w_product_datasheet_illumination.pdf



Look at the footnotes in the screen grab you posted, those numbers are _bin kits_.

From the datasheet, page 14.


> Note 1: GK100 - denotes a bin kit comprising of all flux and chromaticity bins at the 6500K color point
> GJ500 - denotes a bin kit comprising of all flux and chromaticity bins at the 4000K color point
> GH700 - denotes a bin kit comprising of all flux and chromaticity bins at the 3000K color point
> See PhlatLight Binning and Labeling document for more information.
> 
> Note 2: For ordering information on all available bin kits, please see PhlatLight Binning and Labeling document.


If they were single bin part numbers, they would end with four digits, not five.

From the datasheet, page 7:


> All PhlatLight products are packaged and labeled with their respective bin as outlined in the tables on pages 3 and 4. When shipped,
> each package will only contain one bin. The part number designation is as follows:
> 
> SST 90 WNNX F11 FF WW
> 
> Example: The part label SST-90-W65S-F11-WN-G4 refers to a 6500K standard CRI white, SST-90 emitter, F11 package configuration,
> with a flux range of 1,000 to 1,200 lumens and a chromaticity value within the box defined by the four points (0.313, 0.338), (0.321,
> 0.348), (0.322, 0.336), (0.312, 0.328).
> 
> Example: The part label SST-90-W30M-F11-WL-U3 refers to a 3000K moderate CRI white, SST-90 emitter, F11 package configuration,
> with a flux range of 700 to 850 lumens and a chromaticity value within the box defined by the four points (0.422, 0.399), (0.434, 0.403),
> (0.426, 0.386), (0.415, 0.381).



-Michael


----------



## moviles

reflector for the sst-90 or ssr-90
http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_SST-90_reflector.pdf
http://www.ledil.fi/index.php?page=sst-90


----------



## wquiles

moviles said:


> reflector for the sst-90 or ssr-90
> http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_SST-90_reflector.pdf
> http://www.ledil.fi/index.php?page=sst-90



Looks very small, so I would imagine it would just be good for flood applications. It would be nice to try to modify a 2" dia or larger reflector (3" of 3.5" would be nice!) to see how much trow can we achieve with such a monster LED


----------



## Aircraft800

Bad News from Avnet Express



> Thanks Matt, unfortunately these have been sold. But I do have a request in to see what the leadtime is and will let you know.
> Thanks,
> *(name removed)*
> Sales & Marketing Representative
> Avnet Express


 
Oh Well, I placed an order for three more. Cross your fingers.

I wonder who snagged these up? Probably another CPF member, Mac, LedZep?

We'll See!


----------



## wquiles

No worries. Maybe that means we might even have better Bin selection (neutral white :devil: )?


----------



## moviles

Aircraft800 said:


> Bad News from Avnet Express
> 
> 
> 
> Oh Well, I placed an order for three more. Cross your fingers.
> 
> I wonder who snagged these up? Probably another CPF member, Mac, LedZep?
> 
> We'll See!



what model you ordered? SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100 ??
SSR-90-W45S-R11-GJ500?? or some sst-90 without star????


----------



## Aircraft800

moviles said:


> what model you ordered? SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100 ??
> SSR-90-W45S-R11-GJ500?? or some sst-90 without star????


 
They had 3 SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100-X in stock last week, which ones were you interested in Will and Michael? I'll ad a note to my request and see if I can get a specific set.


----------



## saabluster

Aircraft800 said:


> They had 3 SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100-X in stock last week, which ones were you interested in Will and Michael? I'll ad a note to my request and see if I can get a specific set.


I requested 3 of the brightest they had. They said they could get SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100-X so that is what I went with. I really think those were parts reserved for me and they just gave up. They never would tell me exactly what bin I could get or what bins would be available come the production release. I suppose I should have just gone ahead and layed the money down. Oh well. I still want the brightest I can get. Thanks.


----------



## evenchaos

Any left? I sure would like to get my hands on a few


----------



## Erasmus

As my current supplier is located in Europe, communication is going slow and they don't really care about their customers. That's why I don't like big distrubuting chains! Argh I will see if I can work sth out, I'll let you guys know in case I have some useful info.


----------



## clint357

saabluster said:


> I requested 3 of the brightest they had. They said they could get SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100-X so that is what I went with. I really think those were parts reserved for me and they just gave up. They never would tell me exactly what bin I could get or what bins would be available come the production release. I suppose I should have just gone ahead and layed the money down. Oh well. I still want the brightest I can get. Thanks.


 
That's the one I ordered 2 weeks ago from AVNET......havn't heard anything yet. I wonder when they're going to ramp-up production.


----------



## Illum

clint357 said:


> I wonder when they're going to ramp-up production.



given that 4sevens already acquired an engineering sample for a newly designed light I think its a matter of when there will be sufficient inventory to allow consumers to buy them...or whenever their webmaster has the go ahead to update their website


----------



## ergotelis

Erasmus said:


> As my current supplier is located in Europe, communication is going slow and they don't really care about their customers. That's why I don't like big distrubuting chains! Argh I will see if I can work sth out, I'll let you guys know in case I have some useful info.



That is what i saw to the same supplier here in EU. I didn't like the fact that their reply was as if they were bored to make business with me.So i gave up with them, good luck Erasmus! I guess they told you almost the same prices with me right? At the current currency it is not worth buying from EU...


----------



## old4570

So does anyone have one yet ? 


:thinking:


----------



## moviles

10 ssr-90 on stock (europe dealer):





but Minimum Pack Quantity its 10
http://www.ebv.com/en/advanced-search.html?no_cache=1&tx_ebvsearch_pi1[stype]=inv&tx_indexedsearch[sword]=ssr-90&tx_indexedsearch[type]=2&tx_ebvsearch_pi1[man]=ALL_LINES&tx_ebvsearch_pi1[cur]=EUR&ct_ref=u58-c302


----------



## niner

I have a chance to play with SST-50 and SST-90 a little bit. As you could guess, the beam is pretty floody, just like MC-E and P7. Using a McR-27S reflector and driving at the same 3A , SST-50 seems to have 20% more lux at 1m when compares to MC-E. But I'm not 100% sure if focus is optimized in either case, and I didn't measure overall light output.

I tried a 45mm smooth reflector that I had on hand. I couldn't see any dark hole. That's good news. Beam pattern seems to be pretty smooth as well.

SST-50 could be a drop-in replacement for some MC-E applications. I'll try to replace the MC-E from my Legion II with SSR-50, and see if it will take care of that awful cross/hole in the middle.


----------



## Nos

damn, is there really no chance to shot some of those with a groupe buy?


----------



## ma_sha1

I am in for GB if someone can get it going


----------



## Aircraft800

UPDATE:
SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100-X now in stock at avnetexpress


----------



## LED Boatguy

Cool, I'll wait till the low serial numbers get used up and the novelty wears off.

Edit: Just saw they are the 6500K, 70 CRI ones. I'm so done with those from any manufacturer.


----------



## moviles

Aircraft800 said:


> UPDATE:
> SST-90-W65S-F11-GK100-X now in stock at avnetexpress


why you want it without star???
i want the *SSR*-90 with star (SSR-90-W65S-R11-GK100)


----------



## moviles

this CPFmarket place dealer will get more sst-50/sst-90:twothumbs
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sho...35#post2328835


----------



## moviles

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2329652#post2329652
i will buy one :thumbsup:


----------



## moviles

where can I buy stars for sst-90?????????????????

for sst-50 we can use XR E stars but the sst -90 maybe are too big for xr e stars

XR E star : 9x8-10x9 mm

sst-50: 9x7.3 mm

sst-90 11x10 mm (maybe too big for XR E stars)


----------



## lolzertank

I would just solder a 3mm or so copper shim on the bottom to raise the electrical pads above the heatsink, solder wires on and attach the shim to the heatsink. It has way better thermal conductivity than a star too which is very important with a LED as big as the SST-90. 

Or are the contacts on the top? I'm not sure and don't want to download the datasheet right now... if they're on the top, just epoxy it on. If they're on both sides, just use the shim but solder the wires to the top.


----------



## saabluster

I just got mine in.


----------



## saabluster

Just one note on these LEDs. As you might be able to see in these pictures the die is attached with a conductive epoxy. Also since the construction is similar to the Cree with a glass dome and silicone gel holding the dome on they will be easy to knock off. This provides a tantalizing opportunity though as it may be possible to to remove the die and mount it directly to a heatpipe.:naughty:


----------



## lolzertank

:wow: Have you lit them up yet?


----------



## moviles

saabluster said:


> I just got mine in.


wow good job ty for the pictures :goodjob:, maybe we need find stars


----------



## wquiles

saabluster said:


> I just got mine in.



Do you have pics of the bottom side?

Will


----------



## saabluster

wquiles said:


> Do you have pics of the bottom side?
> 
> Will


Shot a few more for you. It matches up perfectly with the Cree MCPCBs.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

Hmm, that's convenient


----------



## RyanA

Beamshot
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3013354#post3013354
post 199!

lovecpf


----------



## saabluster

I found it interesting that on the edges where the current spreaders attach to the die blue light leaks out. Very strange. Doesn't seem like a deal breaker as much as an oddity.


----------



## Nos

Seems like this part isnt perfectly phosphor coated :shrug:


----------



## wquiles

saabluster said:


> Shot a few more for you. It matches up perfectly with the Cree MCPCBs.


Thank you sir :thumbsup:

Will


----------



## kd5ahl

HarryN said:


> If you think of it like any other single die package, then it gets easier to consider how to manage it.
> 
> For light management, a reflector is not going to be of much use - just go down the aspherical lens path right away. Shape the beam to your desires by defocusing the setup.
> 
> LEDs are most efficient when under driven - which makes this thing wonderful for even 5 amps. That can be run with a single 18650 cell with 0.5 - 1 ohm resistor at 2 C - no problem, no fancy driver needed.
> 
> 5 amps x 3.5 Vf is already pushing 20 watts pretty hard. This is right at the edge of hand held comfort with passive cooling.
> 
> If my seat of the pants engineering is close, this thing will be easy to work with. Perfect for my "project tornado" light. (2 of them of course )



Can it be that easy? Don't you need a high wattage resistor?

I'm trying to design a video light for diving, and if all it takes to run this guy is a single LiIon battery, then I'll be set.


----------



## wquiles

kd5ahl said:


> Don't you need a high wattage resistor?


Yes, you do need a "high" wattage resistor:

Linkie for equations:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-ohm.htm

Power = Volts * Amps
Volts = Amps * Ohms
Power = Amps^2 * Ohms

-> 5 amps at 0.5 Ohm is 12.5 Watts, and at 1 Ohm it is 25 Watts. Those can be quite big.

In this project I am using two 0.47 Ohm 5 Watt resistors in parallel, although they only needed to be about 2.5 Watts each since they are in parallel (a little bit of an overkill):
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/232273

Will


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

there have got to be more efficient solutions... right? I dunno, it is a lot of current..

Not that it really matters too much yet... people are just trying to make prototype lights to see how it performs with reflectors, heat management, etc.


----------



## kd5ahl

Thanks for the quick reply.

I had tried a couple of online resistor calculators and got mixed results:

http://www.hebeiltd.com.cn/?p=zz.led.resistor.calculator said 0.6W
http://led.linear1.org/led.wiz said 9W

In both cases I specified 3.7V supply, 3.5V LED Voltage and 3000MA current.

I guess all the online calcs aren't up to snuff.

On a related note, I'm guessing any FET that I might use to switch this monster on and off would need to be able to handle at least 9A without any safety factor, and I'd want to take the internal resistance of the FET into account in my resistance calculations.

I'm hoping to use a hall effect transistor and a MOSFET to control the light.

I'm quite new to this, and appreciate all the support I have seen on this site.

Thanks!


----------



## lolzertank

The first calculator is rounding to the nearest commonly available resistor value which decreases the current and the dissipation. The second rounds to the nearest value BUT it doesn't reduce the current accordingly, resulting in some weird calculations.


----------



## TexLite

Binning and Labeling is up at Luminus:

PhlatLight LED Binning and Labeling

-Michael


----------



## spc

is there a way to wire 3 bluesharks to get max current for this emitter? 

*edit- oops I meant shark bucks 

3 parallel 3a shark bucks = 9a


----------



## Aircraft800

spc said:


> is there a way to wire 3 bluesharks to get max current for this emitter?


 
Or even a few Bucksharks?


----------



## spc

look at post 27 here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2699869


----------



## Aircraft800

*WhoWho!! Thanks for the info!! Looks like I found my driver!!*


dat2zip said:


> As with the Shark you can parallel more than one Shark Buck to increase the output drive level. Two Shark Bucks could then drive up to 6A of output current and if both had one common pot would control regulation from full off to full on (or nearly full off).
> 
> Wayne


----------



## spc

I think ill try it too! :tinfoil:
If your wondering taskled's hipcc cant be paralleled


----------



## ma_sha1

Just received one SST-90,

I am getting some 4000mah 10A battery to try direct drive
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3023263

Anyone seen any issues with direct drive? Will I be able to get 9A out of DD?


----------



## Glenn7

Me too I am going to direct drive my SST-90 with 3 x C NMiH 5000mAh powerizer's - it will have massive heat sink - so it shouldn't go


----------



## videoman

Hello everyone, I am new to this site, I am wedding videographer and perhaps someone can help me out. I cannot find my ideal light in the market so perhaps any suggestions as to where to start building one will be very appreciated. I need a LED light that:
1- Runs on a built in 7.2 v Li-ion Sony NPF-960 6000ma battery or equiv.
2-Has output equivalent to a 100w halogen bulb or more 
3-3500 to 4500 K color temp.
4-not necessarily dimmable(but would be nice if color temp would hold)
5-Must cover horizontal angle of minimum 60 degrees (flood)
6- Illumination must be very even (no hot spots)
7-Must run minimum of 45 minutes before recharge
8-Enclosure to be no larger than 4 inches wideX 2 inches high X2in dept
Is this possible using the SST-90 or two ??


----------



## znomit

Not sure if this has been posted yet...
Carclo 26.5mm optics 
http://carclo-optics.co.uk/catalog/documents/Luminus_Device-06-09.pdf

:twothumbs


----------



## Nos

good find, havent seen this yet


----------



## AW

I have got one :


----------



## wquiles

AW said:


> I have got one :



AW - that looks impressive :twothumbs

Can you share more with us on the actual build? More Photos? :naughty:

Will


----------



## ma_sha1

AW, Are you able to pump 9A into it???


----------



## SFG2Lman

what was the driver/batts/heatsinking/can i just buy that light from you? Kidding, I like building em myself, but if you get a spare minute, beamshots would be hugely beneficial THANKS!!!!


----------



## kd5ahl

ma_sha1 said:


> Just received one SST-90,
> 
> I am getting some 4000mah 10A battery to try direct drive
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3023263
> 
> Anyone seen any issues with direct drive? Will I be able to get 9A out of DD?




I did the exact same thing with the exact same battery and a radio shack 5w .45ohm resistor.

resistor got warm after a few minutes, but not hot. LED was on aluminium heatsink and stayed nice and cool.

have you tried driving it without a resistor? I am afraid to.

I'm thinking that if I need to keep the resistor, I'll use a T0-220 resistor bolted to heatsinking material in the light.

what do all you guru's out there think about that?


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

not a guru, but that's a lot of wasted energy. Perhaps someone will develop a nice high-amp driver and post schematics.


----------



## SFG2Lman

how does the driver reduce energy waste? I would have thought they absorb and waste energy that would normally go to the LED (I am FAR from a pro, I believe you, i just like to know the whys of thing lol)


----------



## znomit

SFG2Lman said:


> how does the driver reduce energy waste? I would have thought they absorb and waste energy that would normally go to the LED (I am FAR from a pro, I believe you, i just like to know the whys of thing lol)



If you need 1000lm for the entire runtime you can either: 
Use a driver that gives you 1000lm at the start and 1000lm at the end.
Direct drive at lots more than 1000lm to start with and 1000lm at the end. All the lumens over 1000 are wasted, and LEDs and batteries are not very efficient at making those extra lumens.


----------



## Glenn7

znomit said:


> If you need 1000lm for the entire runtime you can either:
> Use a driver that gives you 1000lm at the start and 1000lm at the end.
> Direct drive at lots more than 1000lm to start with and 1000lm at the end. All the lumens over 1000 are wasted, and LEDs and batteries are not very efficient at making those extra lumens.



what about using 3 x C NMiH direct drive?


----------



## Gryloc

kd5ahl,

I do not think that you are driving the LED to its full potential with that resistor value. Your resistor would burn up if you use two of those fully charged li-ion cells in series (you could deliver up to 11A assuming the LED has a Vf of ~3.4V at 9A, but the resistor would have to dissipate over 36W). However, if you are using only one cell that is fully charged, then you may only see ~1.8A going to the emitter (resistor dissipating 1.45W). If you are using only one cell, then that would explain why things are operating so cool. The lower the difference in voltage is between supply voltage and forward voltage, the better the overall efficiency (which, in some conditions, can be comparable to what you would get from a driver circuit). With a resistor, you do not get a nice regulations, obviously. Therefore, the current delivered would drop the entire runtime of the light. (meaning you cannot say it outputs X amount of light constantly, but just at its peak).

It may be wise to use a driver if you want to get much more current to the emitter, or if you want to use a higher battery voltage. TaskLED's HipCC and HipFlex, and the Shark Buck from the Sandwich Shoppe can supply nearly 3A to your LED. Only the Shark Buck can be wired in parallel with one or two additional Shark Bucks to deliver larger amounts of current (see above link in the post by SPC). You can even dim it fully with two or three drivers using a single potentiometer.

If you stick with the single cell, and direct drive the LED, there would be far fewer losses. However, I am not sure how or if the battery voltage would sag enough under load to not cause the LED to get too hot or cause damage to the cell. If the cell sags just enough to send 9A to the emitter with a freshly charged cell, that would be great!

-Tony

EDIT: SFG2Lman,

Most nice drivers around here deliver a constant amount of current to the LED by using a unique switching driver that is usually very efficient (from 70% to 90+% efficient). The drivers that you are thinking of that actually consume the extra voltage as heat are called linear regulators. The classic LM317 is a linear voltage regulator, and the AMC drivers seen in some DX/KD drivers are linear current regulators. The voltage drop (supply voltage minus LED Vf) is multiplied by the current going to the LED, and that is the amount of waste heat used by the driver -resulting in heat. There are a lot of little details I may have missed, but think of some linear regulators as like a smart or automatically adjusting resistor.


----------



## AW

OK. Here is more about my built. The M6 bezel is a cone which has a large enough reflector opening so I don't have to do anything but to make a brass heat sink. It is running direct drive on a BIG 7200mAH protected F cell which fits nicely inside a M6 body ( prototype cell not for sale yet so please don't ask about availability ). The SST-90 emitter ( unknown bin ) I have seems to have a high vF ( 9A @4.2V tested on a bench PS ). Running direct drive on the single F cell draws only 5.6A measured on the tail end. The beam focused quite well with a nice hot spot. I'll have to swap for another emitter when known bins are available.


----------



## Gryloc

AW,

Before you tossed that monster into the M6, did you have a chance to play around with a few reflectors to test for a nice and tight beam? I wonder how it will work with a few common reflectors, from the stock Mag reflector (or one of the OP metal versions), to an IMS 27mm reflector, to a classic McR 27mm or 38mm reflector. Do you think it would focus well in a 20mm reflector for a casual mini-mag mod? Can I use alkaline AA's?  I wanted to be the first to ask...

Out of curiosity, did you read the Vf of the emitter by the LCD readout on your PS, or did you have a separate set of probes measuring the voltage at the contacts of the emitter. Just checking because 4.2V at 1A/mm sounds like a horribly high Vf! Any voltage drop in a part of the system where there is resistance will add to the apparent Vf of the emitter (in hookup wire or other electrical contacts). This is especially problematic in any high current loads. It is best to use a separate set of probe wires attached to a separate multimeter. Regardless, thank you for sharing your Vf measurement of this beastly emitter, as well as the pretty beamshots. It will be helpful for those designing lights containing this emitter!

BTW, it is neat hearing about the F cell, even if you will be the only user on the CPF. Oh, and is there any way that you could get a rough lumen measurement by any means? If not, just a beamshot comparison to a multi power LED Mag mod would be nice. I am assuming it is of the second bin from the lowest, right? I heard that some samples are of this second lowest bin. I wonder how long it will take to get parts as that will perform as well as the ones described in the press release. Thanks again.

-Tony


----------



## wquiles

AW said:


> OK. Here is more about my built. The M6 bezel is a cone which has a large enough reflector opening so I don't have to do anything but to make a brass heat sink. It is running direct drive on a BIG 7200mAH protected F cell which fits nicely inside a M6 body ( prototype cell not for sale yet so please don't ask about availability ). The SST-90 emitter ( unknown bin ) I have seems to have a high vF ( 9A @4.2V tested on a bench PS ). Running direct drive on the single F cell draws only 5.6A measured on the tail end. The beam focused quite well with a nice hot spot. I'll have to swap for another emitter when known bins are available.
> 
> (snip pics)



Thank you AW - nice work. And by the way, it is exciting to hear about the possibility of a protected F cell :devil:

Will


----------



## nailbender

Gryloc said:


> AW,
> 
> Before you tossed that monster into the M6, did you have a chance to play around with a few reflectors to test for a nice and tight beam? I wonder how it will work with a few common reflectors, from the stock Mag reflector (or one of the OP metal versions), to an IMS 27mm reflector, to a classic McR 27mm or 38mm reflector. Do you think it would focus well in a 20mm reflector for a casual mini-mag mod? Can I use alkaline AA's?  I wanted to be the first to ask...
> 
> Out of curiosity, did you read the Vf of the emitter by the LCD readout on your PS, or did you have a separate set of probes measuring the voltage at the contacts of the emitter. Just checking because 4.2V at 1A/mm sounds like a horribly high Vf! Any voltage drop in a part of the system where there is resistance will add to the apparent Vf of the emitter (in hookup wire or other electrical contacts). This is especially problematic in any high current loads. It is best to use a separate set of probe wires attached to a separate multimeter. Regardless, thank you for sharing your Vf measurement of this beastly emitter, as well as the pretty beamshots. It will be helpful for those designing lights containing this emitter!
> 
> BTW, it is neat hearing about the F cell, even if you will be the only user on the CPF. Oh, and is there any way that you could get a rough lumen measurement by any means? If not, just a beamshot comparison to a multi power LED Mag mod would be nice. I am assuming it is of the second bin from the lowest, right? I heard that some samples are of this second lowest bin. I wonder how long it will take to get parts as that will perform as well as the ones described in the press release. Thanks again.
> 
> -Tony



I put one in a Jade mag that Will made for me using a Britelumens jumbo heatsink and the beam hotspot really depends on the reflector used and position of the led. The metal reflector from KD produced a floody beam but I switched to smooth stock reflector and WOW a nice tight bright hot spot. 





That was with the metal reflector and it sits too far back the stock reflector sits up farther. 

As for brightness, I tried one of the dewalt white high amperage batts and it started out 3.96 volts in in less than a minute it was visibly dimmer and had lost a volt. 
I changed to a Li ion D batt. from KD and it ran like a top. At turn on I got 1107 lumens out the front and after one minute it had stableized and held at 750 lumens OTF. I ran the light for 10 minutes with little dimming if any on the KD cell. The head of the mag did get warm.
I then decided to try a AW IMR C cell well big change the light definately had a tint shift, the led turned more blue where with the D cell it was very white. The lumens picked up to 1325 lumens OTF but dropped quite fast. I did not have time to check the amperage since it got so hot it melted the solder on one of the leads. I had them soldered to the back of the led. I have gone back and changed how I attached the leads but it was definately hot and bright. 

By the way the led was fine as soon as I worked on the lead it fired right back up. After experimenting I can see as with all new leds it will take some experimenting to get it homed in. I was quite pleased with the D li ion battery, although not pushed to max potential @ 750 lumen after warm up it certainly is one of the brihgtest leds. I am anxious to put an asperic in front of it. 

Dave


----------



## kz1000s1

Nice job AW! How is the output? Assuming it's a lower bin like WL, the spec sheet says it should be around 1200 lumens at that current. How does it compare to a P7 for out put and beam quality? And how hot does it get?

I just got my SST-90 yesterday, but I still getting over the flu and haven't felt like playing with it yet. It's going in a 2D Mag on a modified Britelumens deluxe P7 heatsink running DD. I'll start out with 3xC NiMh for power. The BatterySpace 4000mah 26650 sounds interesting too. Or 2 of them with a series/parallel adapter? That F cell sounds interesting.


----------



## kz1000s1

Thanks nailbender, you answered some of my questions.
Did you face off the mounting surface of the heatsink to make it flat, or did you just mount the led over the relief for a P7?
I have a DX P7 reflector that I want to try also. What's the beam quality like with the mag reflector? Does it still have bad artifacts
like a P7?


----------



## nailbender

kz1000s1 said:


> Thanks nailbender, you answered some of my questions.
> Did you face off the mounting surface of the heatsink to make it flat, or did you just mount the led over the relief for a P7?



I had a round copper shim that fit he depression height and diameter perfect. I was afraid the AA would be too thick since this led doesn't protrude down like a P7. 

Dave


----------



## kz1000s1

nailbender said:


> I had a round copper shim that fit he depression height and diameter perfect. I was afraid the AA would be too thick since this led doesn't protrude down like a P7.
> 
> Dave



You're right, the AA would be too thick for heat transfer. I had also thought of a shim but I was worried the heat transfer wouldn't be as good as mounting directly to the heatsink. On the other hand, I would prefer to keep the HA coating. If I face it flat I might grind reliefs on the top so the solder pads don't touch the sink and to give a larger available area to solder the wires. I assume you just had the emmiter corners over the holes and solder before mounting? Did you resolder with the emmiter in place? What wire did you use? 

Maybe we should start a new thread on this in the modified forum.


----------



## ma_sha1

Just started build my own using a IMR 26650, 
unfortunately, no heat sink yet, so I can't fire it up. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238232


----------



## Biker Bear

Hmm.... 2 F-cells would be just a shade shorter than 3 D-cells...! My, what could people do with _that?!_ :devil:


----------



## kz1000s1

nailbender said:


> I then decided to try a AW IMR C cell well big change the light definately had a tint shift, the led turned more blue where with the D cell it was very white. The lumens picked up to 1325 lumens OTF but dropped quite fast. I did not have time to check the amperage since it got so hot it melted the solder on one of the leads. I had them soldered to the back of the led. I have gone back and changed how I attached the leads but it was definately hot and bright.
> 
> Dave



I have another question for you please. Which lead melted? The positive at the LED? 

I just started assembling mine now that I'm feeling better.
Went with grinding the sink flat with reliefs on the side similar to what saabluster did, but not as deep.


----------



## nailbender

kz1000s1 said:


> I have another question for you please. Which lead melted? The positive at the LED?
> 
> I just started assembling mine now that I'm feeling better.
> Went with grinding the sink flat with reliefs on the side similar to what saabluster did, but not as deep.




Hi 
Both sides popped off so it was simply that the core got too hot. I had very slight pocket over each hole that I had soldered to the bottom keeping the rest in direct contact. As i said with a black D li ion I ran for well over ten minutes. I simply have to change the way I am mounting them. 

I did not notice how saabluster mounted his I will have to look as it will take all of us to come up with the best solution.

Dave


----------



## kz1000s1

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228031&page=7


----------



## kd5ahl

Gryloc said:


> kd5ahl,
> 
> I do not think that you are driving the LED to its full potential with that resistor value. Your resistor would burn up if you use two of those fully charged li-ion cells in series (you could deliver up to 11A assuming the LED has a Vf of ~3.4V at 9A, but the resistor would have to dissipate over 36W). However, if you are using only one cell that is fully charged, then you may only see ~1.8A going to the emitter (resistor dissipating 1.45W). If you are using only one cell, then that would explain why things are operating so cool. The lower the difference in voltage is between supply voltage and forward voltage, the better the overall efficiency (which, in some conditions, can be comparable to what you would get from a driver circuit). With a resistor, you do not get a nice regulations, obviously. Therefore, the current delivered would drop the entire runtime of the light. (meaning you cannot say it outputs X amount of light constantly, but just at its peak).
> 
> It may be wise to use a driver if you want to get much more current to the emitter, or if you want to use a higher battery voltage. TaskLED's HipCC and HipFlex, and the Shark Buck from the Sandwich Shoppe can supply nearly 3A to your LED. Only the Shark Buck can be wired in parallel with one or two additional Shark Bucks to deliver larger amounts of current (see above link in the post by SPC). You can even dim it fully with two or three drivers using a single potentiometer.
> 
> If you stick with the single cell, and direct drive the LED, there would be far fewer losses. However, I am not sure how or if the battery voltage would sag enough under load to not cause the LED to get too hot or cause damage to the cell. If the cell sags just enough to send 9A to the emitter with a freshly charged cell, that would be great!


 
I was wondering about why it was running so cool. I am using one cell. If I can get the runtime I am looking for with the one cell, that's awesome. I haven't tried to run the cell down yet, so I cant say what the runtime will be.

The Cell I am using is http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=5161

the protection circuit I am using is http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1249

I have the protection circuit board installed in the cell to prevent overdischarge/charge, they also state that it limits the output to 8.5A.

Does anyone know what happens with that protection circuit when it's current draw is exceeded? does it shut down, or put a cap on output?

If it caps output, does that mean i can remove the resistor, since the current output of the protection circuit is less than the rated output of the LED? (I think I read the datasheet said 9A)

Thanks for all your responses, I am slowly getting addicted to the lumens! Well, not so slowly.

EDIT, borrowed my neighbor's astro flight whatt meter, and messed around with various resistor combo's, and guess what? with no resistor at all, the cell was able to deliver 2.9amps to the LED. 

one other thing, it's scary bright, and gets hot quick. even when attached to a 2" x 4" aluminum finned heatsink. maybe 5 minutes and the heatsink was uncomfortably warm.

I think I'll chuck some aluminum in my lathe and see if I can make a slug to go in one of my canister lights and see how well it does in water for cooling.


----------



## kz1000s1

I moved my build discussion here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238442


----------



## cmacclel

After seeing some of the beamshots I believe I will go forward with a Mag "D" sized heatsink design. Hopefully I'll have a sample made up in the next couple days. For the people that have tried these with a P7 heatsink have you found that the led has to be lower or higher to focus properly??

Mac


----------



## kz1000s1

Hi Mac,

IMO it needs to go higher. I ground the top of my heatsink flat until I just removed the HA finish in the center pocket. The side of the reflector hits the top, inside edge of sink before full focus. Now focus is at the point where the dark center hole just closed as you tighten the head. With a flat bottomed, DX reflector, you are around 1/8" from the LED seating in the hole with the head bottomed out.

Parts used:

SST-90 bare emitter

An original Mag reflector with a cut cam

Britelumens Deluxe P7 heatsink. This was one of the original 10 prototype parts.


----------



## kd5ahl

> An original Mag reflector with a cut cam



forgive my ignorance but what's a "cut Cam"


----------



## cmacclel

kd5ahl said:


> forgive my ignorance but what's a "cut Cam"




The stock maglite lens is has a cam in the rear to focus the lamp. 

Mac


----------



## nailbender

cmacclel said:


> The stock maglite lens is has a cam in the rear to focus the lamp.
> 
> Mac




Hi Mac

It seems to me that the led gives a much better profile sitting up into the reflector a small amount. The KD reflector that I tried had the led sitting almost even with the bottom and the beam was floody when I changed to a stock mag it sits up into the reflector slightly more and the beam became quite compact with a nice hotspot. 

Dave


----------



## moviles

my new sst-90 flashlight with 5 modes: Hi, mid, low, fast strobe, sos :thumbsup:. I really love it

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238745









mte sf-22 p7------------------------------------mte sf-15 5 modes SSR-90

at very hight current powered with 1x aw18650 imr (16 amp max):




10 amp


----------



## BeachBoy

what is the optic?

and where can we get SST-90? I wanted to buy one from the marketplace but non left and they were lower bins


----------



## SFG2Lman

:twothumbs I would just like to say that I have an SST-90 P60 drop-in in my bored out 6P courtesy of nailbender, its driven at 2.5A which is only 25% of capacity and its WOW its definitely more of a flood, but as I already have a good thrower its AMAZING. Sorry to rub it in and brag but I am very very happy, sometime in the future I may find a 5A or 6A driver but I need to look into thermal management before going any further. 
***runs outside to chase the darkness away***


----------



## ARC mania

Chiming in to say I picked up some SSR-90 LED's. 

ARC mania


----------



## moviles

ARC mania said:


> Chiming in to say I picked up some SSR-90 LED's.
> 
> ARC mania



GN100, nice bin, were you buy it? how much $?


----------



## ergotelis

binning is WN..which of course is the top one. 
I have one point for you, i just saw your signature, you say 2,75amp with 7882 board. Please do a check,measure the amparage not on the battery,but on the led. I hope that you will read something close to it...


----------



## ma_sha1

*Just ordered a Top Bin SST-90 from Avnet:*
https://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController?langId=-1&storeId=500201&catalogId=500201&term=SSR%252D90%252DW57S%252DR11%252DGN201&x=14&y=5&N=0&action=products

I heard that they actually ship out-of-stock faster than indicated 
after ordering. It's possible that they won't stock-it unless people order them?

SSR-90 (SST-90 on Star) 57S (=57K, Less Blue than 65S which is 65K), N Bin (GN201)





Let's see how long will I have to wait to get it


----------



## jabe1

Looks like 4sevens has been playing with these! look here .
Post 15.


----------



## SFG2Lman

o no...another amazing 4sevens light? i need a second job


----------



## Burgess

lovecpf
_


----------



## csshih

jabe1 said:


> Looks like 4sevens has been playing with these! look here .
> Post 15.


yeah,playing with a couple thousand of em.


----------



## [email protected]

Craig, you serious? Also from the data sheet they will be available in High CRI.


----------



## spencer

csshih said:


> yeah,playing with a couple thousand of em.


I wish I could play with just a couple.


----------



## Gryloc

4sevens said:


> I've been playing with several thousand TOP bin SST-90's



I have heard that 4sevens was playing Frisbee with his dog using his reel of SST-90 emitters. When he is done playing with the reel, he locks it up in his safe for later play-times. He is hoarding them just to play with and to read bedtime stories to.

Just kidding (that would be too silly). It is exciting to hear that these powerful emitters will be making their way in the hands of CPF members to make use of them (either in pre-made lights or in mods if he sells them bare). Thanks for the information, ma_sha1.


----------



## ma_sha1

You are welcome, but my top bin neutral(57K) SSR-90 has a ship date of March 2010 :sigh:


----------



## Pokemonrules

Anyone try an aspherical lens with SST-90 in a M*g?

I was thinking that this should make quite of a thrower... no need to buy a HID?


----------



## moviles

Pokemonrules said:


> Anyone try an aspherical lens with SST-90 in a M*g?
> 
> I was thinking that this should make quite of a thrower... no need to buy a HID?



its 3x3 mm chip it don't will work good with asphericals.
I tested it with tiablo colimator and x2000 lens (21mm)

the output with sst-90 at 9- 10 amp its really really nice 

but if you want thrower you will need a really big reflector


----------



## ma_sha1

My 57K Super Top Bin SSR-90 has shipped :wave:

That's one expensive led 
________________________________________________________
Thank you for choosing *Avnet Electronics Marketing.*
The following confirms that your order has been shipped. 
# QTY Part Number Description RoHS
Status Status Unit Price Total US$ 1 1 SSR-90-W57S-R11-GN201 *Luminus Devices*
PHLATLIGHT WHITE SST-90 LED ON STAR BOARD,CCT 5700K,CRI 70 Lead Free: Yes
RoHS: Yes

$49.58 $49.58 Subtotal: Tax: Shipping: Total: $49.58  $0.00 $8.00 $57.58


----------



## pepko

Pokemonrules said:


> Anyone try an aspherical lens with SST-90 in a M*g?
> 
> I was thinking that this should make quite of a thrower... no need to buy a HID?


 
YES .. it's working perfect ...

http://forum.fotonmag.cz/index.php?s=&showtopic=804&view=findpost&p=14506

here is XR-E with small aspherical (23mm)

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6831/dsc7279.jpg

and here is SST-90 with KD 52mm aspherical for M*g

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6143/dsc7280.jpg

*[over-size images replaced by links - DM51]*


----------



## icaruz

Wow that is one hell of a shot. talking about white wall hunting, you paint the wall white..hee..hee:twothumbs


----------



## kd5ahl

SWEET JEEBUS!

what do the neighbors think??:naughty:


----------



## moviles

really really nice ....but...what 23mm lens? maybe this?: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13702

I have this dx 23 mm lens and are really bad lens the 21mm lens of x2000 are much better


----------



## pepko

moviles said:


> really really nice ....but...what 23mm lens? maybe this?: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13702
> 
> I have this dx 23 mm lens and are really bad lens the 21mm lens of x2000 are much better



this
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=9839


----------



## moviles

pepko said:


> this
> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=9839



it has 21mm lenses like the x2000
http://forolinternas.mforos.com/1737662/9039697-mxdl-sa-28-q5-3xaaa-18650-18500/

I am going to buy it for gift, it is very cheap but I am going to buy this another 10$ model:
http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=9567 direct drived will be ok.



:goodjob:ty for the pics,I really love the SST-90, and with mg asphericals or the tiablo collimator and some flow to throw system can be really really nice


----------



## Burgess

Those poor folks living in that building . . . .


Hafta' put on *Sunglasses*, before looking out their windows -- AT NIGHT ! ! !






" Martha -- where's my Welding Hood ? ? ? "


_


----------



## Techjunkie

First of all, *SUBSCRIBED!*

Second of all, let's hear more about that "*10A current with LDO10C driver*" that you built.

I assume that's what's being discussed here ?



pepko said:


> YES .. it's working perfect ...
> 
> http://forum.fotonmag.cz/index.php?s=&showtopic=804&view=findpost&p=14506
> 
> here is XR-E with small aspherical (23mm)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here is SST-90 with KD 52mm aspherical for M*g


----------



## pepko

Techjunkie said:


> First of all, *SUBSCRIBED!*
> 
> Second of all, let's hear more about that "*10A current with LDO10C driver*" that you built.
> 
> I assume that's what's being discussed here ?



Yes, I use this driver LDO10C which was discussed here a time ago ... but I use it with this thermistor placed close to PCB LED ...


----------



## Vesper

pepko said:


> and here is SST-90 with KD 52mm aspherical for M*g



oo: That is just shocking - my jaw is on the floor. What a beamshot.


----------



## Techjunkie

pepko said:


> Yes, I use this driver LDO10C which was discussed here a time ago ... but I use it with this thermistor placed close to PCB LED ...


 
I've seen that thread, but the circuit design part is over my head. Are you using the LDO10C as a voltage regulator or have you managed to configure it as a current regulator? Could you share your design? I have searched CPF for a driver solution for Phatlight SST-90, but have not found an elegant, cost effective solution. (I don't consider three shark-bucks in a shark cage to be either.) Thanks.


----------



## pepko

Techjunkie said:


> I've seen that thread, but the circuit design part is over my head. Are you using the LDO10C as a voltage regulator or have you managed to configure it as a current regulator? Could you share your design? I have searched CPF for a driver solution for Phatlight SST-90, but have not found an elegant, cost effective solution. (I don't consider three shark-bucks in a shark cage to be either.) Thanks.



I use very simple solution - voltage regulator with decreasing voltage with increasing temperature.

It contains one thermistor (1kohm) parallel with 510ohm resistor and serial with 100ohm trimmer for exact setup trim pin of LDO10C driver. 

You can see values on this picture:


----------



## clint357

How much would you charge for one of these that is set up to run the SST-90? I may be interested in buying one to try out and possibly buying more to put into some driving lights I am working on right now. BTW, is there anywhere to get an SST-90 right now?


----------



## saabluster

clint357 said:


> How much would you charge for one of these that is set up to run the SST-90? I may be interested in buying one to try out and possibly buying more to put into some driving lights I am working on right now. BTW, is there anywhere to get an SST-90 right now?


Avnet has them.


----------



## Techjunkie

That does appear to be a very elegant solution to avoid thermal runaway. I am tempted to copy your design. I'd have to figure out how to mount the thermistor differently, as I plan to use a Brightlumens heatsink and a bare SST emitter instead of the SSR star. Maybe some thermal epxoy to mount it below the post would provie a similar distance from the emitter and thermal contact? How robust is that thermistor, can it handle many thermal cycles and what max temperture? Thanks again.



pepko said:


> I use very simple solution - voltage regulator with decreasing voltage with increasing temperature.
> 
> It contains one thermistor (1kohm) parallel with 510ohm resistor and serial with 100ohm trimmer for exact setup trim pin of LDO10C driver.
> 
> You can see values on this picture:


----------



## whitenoise

lovecpf


----------



## ma_sha1

Reporting in,

Just received my Top Bin GN201 (The highest Bin), 57K SSR-90.
& finally finished my mod. 
This is *much brighter & much nicer tint *than the sample SSR-90
I bought a while ago from CPFMP. It beat out my Mag 85::twothumbs

For more out door beam shots against Mag 85, here is the build thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238232

Left: Top BIn GN201 SSR-90, 57K Neutral Tint, IMR 26670, Kel-lite 2C Host
Right: Mag 1185, 3x17670, Mag 1D host


----------



## Aircraft800

I got a confirmation my *SST-90-W65S-F11-GN102* (PHLATLIGHT WHITE LED, 1000 LUMENS, CCT 6500K, CRI 70) has shipped from Avnet.

I told you it wouldn't take 26 weeks!

Funny thing is, it's not listed on the site anymore. Anyone know where we can order the premier bins from now?


----------



## PMM

Being playing with a SST-90 amazing LED in my book

Until my PSU killed it  found out PSU has no regulation of voltage under low load... darn thing dumped 14+ volts into it on a later test when I flicked the
PSU switch the cracking noise was not a nice sound to hear :sigh:

Still had it whacked up to 11 amps at one-point but heatsink started getting toasty well toasty in my book I'd say no more than 65Deg.

My testing was using this heatsink... http://www.enzotechnology.com/cnb_r1.htm

45mm diameter - does not come with a fan but you get the mount to add a 40mm Fan which I will.

So my project now on hold prob until next year but hopefully by then it will be easier to get them on an optimised binning.

As for the LED very impressed by its ability to handle low light running to extreme output running while maintaining the colour purity.

Would be nice if the could do a small dome version like the 5mm stars like the luxeon cause I now quite fancy a multi-unit 3 or more SST90s on 20mm-22mm optics in high power SPOT mode then some backing up Leds of less power or even SST90 on a mixed mode control to give a wider beam output.


----------



## ifowler

I was wonder which one of the SST-90 LED's is the best for a 3D mag mod? Which one gives the best light? Is it even possible to use a 3D mag to drive a SST-90 at 9 amps? Do i need to use a driver or will it run on 3 1.2 volt D battery's? Or should i use a different host? Any help on building this flashlight would be helpful.


----------



## moviles

ifowler said:


> I was wonder which one of the SST-90 LED's is the best for a 3D mag mod? Which one gives the best light? Is it even possible to use a 3D mag to drive a SST-90 at 9 amps? Do i need to use a driver or will it run on 3 1.2 volt D battery's? Or should i use a different host? Any help on building this flashlight would be helpful.



with only 3x1.2v D batteries and direct drived will be really really really hard get 9 amp 

4x1.2 its better option maybe with some resistor or circuit for limit the current at 9 amp


----------



## Dioni

<= Neighbors


----------



## wquiles

I just received my SST-50 from Avnet:

SST-50-W57S-F21-GJ200
PHLATLIGHT WHITE LED, 500 LUMENS,CCT 5700K, CRI 70

Now I need to find time to make a host for it :devil:

Will


----------



## saabluster

wquiles said:


> I just received my SST-50 from Avnet:
> 
> SST-50-W57S-F21-GJ200
> PHLATLIGHT WHITE LED, 500 LUMENS,CCT 5700K, CRI 70
> 
> Now I need to find time to make a host for it :devil:
> 
> Will


Sweet! Nice bin you scored there. FYI this is the SST-90 thread though.:thumbsup:


----------



## Techjunkie

wquiles said:


> I just received my SST-50 from Avnet:
> 
> SST-50-W57S-F21-GJ200
> PHLATLIGHT WHITE LED, 500 LUMENS,CCT 5700K, CRI 70
> 
> Now I need to find time to make a host for it :devil:
> 
> Will


 
Will,

I'm eager to get your impression of the tint of the 5700K Phatlights compared to the neutral tint (4A) MC-E. After you've had a chance to play, please let us know which is warmer and which is cooler. Thanks!

John


----------



## Curt R

AC800:

We just ordered and received in less that two weeks 51 of the SST-90-W65S-F11-GN102 LEDs from Avnet. 51 is where the price break was. They come in a package of 25 LEDs per blister pack, so one would assume that Avnet has 24 more in stock. 

I like the glass dome as the gummy bear domes of the other LEDs are hard to keep clean during assembly and must be washed with isopropyl alcohol. We also had made a one inch diameter PCB with mounting holes in the star MCPCB pattern. Hope to start testing this setup for the SR2000 light in two weeks using an adjustable output 9 Amp drive circuit and a 2 inch reflector. We have a 38120 3.3 volt FePO4 Lithium-Ion battery as a power source. Overall length will be under 11 inches with a 2-1/2 inch diameter head and a 1-3/4 inch diameter battery compartment. Hope to have this done and ready by the end of November, (maybe). 

Curt


----------



## TorchBoy

This horizontal scrolling is a drag. Ha ha. Not.


----------



## Aircraft800

Curt R said:


> AC800:
> 
> We just ordered and received in less that two weeks 51 of the SST-90-W65S-F11-GN102 LEDs from Avnet. 51 is where the price break was. They come in a package of 25 LEDs per blister pack, so one would assume that Avnet has 24 more in stock.
> 
> I like the glass dome as the gummy bear domes of the other LEDs are hard to keep clean during assembly and must be washed with isopropyl alcohol. We also had made a one inch diameter PCB with mounting holes in the star MCPCB pattern. Hope to start testing this setup for the SR2000 light in two weeks using an adjustable output 9 Amp drive circuit and a 2 inch reflector. We have a 38120 3.3 volt FePO4 Lithium-Ion battery as a power source. Overall length will be under 11 inches with a 2-1/2 inch diameter head and a 1-3/4 inch diameter battery compartment. Hope to have this done and ready by the end of November, (maybe).
> 
> Curt


 
Nice work Curt. I didn't know PEAK was working on such a project.


----------



## luckybucket

Curt R said:


> AC800:
> 
> I like the glass dome as the gummy bear domes of the other LEDs are hard to keep clean during assembly and must be washed with isopropyl alcohol. We also had made a one inch diameter PCB with mounting holes in the star MCPCB pattern. Hope to start testing this setup for the SR2000 light in two weeks using an adjustable output 9 Amp drive circuit and a 2 inch reflector. We have a 38120 3.3 volt FePO4 Lithium-Ion battery as a power source. Overall length will be under 11 inches with a 2-1/2 inch diameter head and a 1-3/4 inch diameter battery compartment. Hope to have this done and ready by the end of November, (maybe).
> 
> Curt



Darn you for reading my mind. I just ordered 4500 series sst-90 to start a build, but I was aiming for a 12 amp burst mode. 


It's nice to see a builder using lifepo4 batteriers. I have been planning to use them exclusively in all my lights because of the high life cycle and light weight and environmental friendliness. What I really like about your design is the use of only one battery. That makes charging so much simpler even though it requires a well designed regulator that can handle high current. Another bonus is it will be much easier to change batteries after a long night of cooler raiding at the river.


----------



## Curt R

LB:

The 38120 battery is not what you would refer to as light weight. At 11.67 oz or 331 grams it is however a powerhouse. Power density is 10 Amps and a discharge capacity of 100 Amps. You could weld with several of these. They are extremely well made and have a 6 mm tapped hole in each end. Cost is about $32.00 USD each. We are hoping to get close to about 2000 Lumens out of this light. Primary usage would be for Search and Rescue type operations. I have a 3 D cell flashlight that is 10 inches long with a 2-1/4 inch diameter head with a PR bulb. The SR2000 should produce a little bit more light.

Curt


----------



## snoboy

Curt - I would be very interested to follow the development of your light. Please keep us updated.


----------



## Curt R

snoboy:

Everything is designed around the optics and not the LED, and that is true with all new flashlights. When my samples arrive and I will then get a chance to evaluate them for the best results. Then I can finish the finial mechanical design, make prototypes and do the assembly for final testing before production parts are produced. Preliminary design drawings are on the RMSK web site. 

Curt


----------



## ergotelis

Guys i have a problem and might need some help to tell me what to do.
I got my sst-90 led, mounted on a heatsink and then light it up.
I saw that the dome is not very well put or i damaged it during modding, but i think that i was careful enough not to do anything.
At specific angles, i can see a shade on the emitter.When i light it up, the shade dissappears and then when there comes a lot of heat it does appear again.
I think that the dome is not contacting the core well.
How can i fix it? Is it good to try to remove the dome?Would it be any problem?Has anyone done something similar?the problem is about the same this guy wants to describe 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/250804&highlight=thrunite


----------



## Curt R

Not fixable, if you try to remove the dome, , the bonding wires will break. All you can do 
is secure the dome with some high temp epoxy to prevent it from moving and breaking 
the bond wires. 

Welcome to the world of modding. That happens to all of us. I have a box full of bad LEDs, 
circuit boards and completed heads that do not work. 

Curt


----------



## IsaacHayes

I have never broke an LED so far. But, in your case yeah it's broke, best to try is to push down on the dome some, while some glue/epoxy cures and hope for the best...


----------



## ergotelis

I am not sure if it is fixable as it is. There is no visible point of being damaged, other than the mirror-metal area between the core and the dome. When i light it up, it dissappears and when it gets really hot it appears again. As if it connects on the dome on power up and disconnects when there is a lot of heat.

A member mentioned that removing the dome is possible and that phlatlight leds can work without dome. Is this really true?
BTW the led is functioning properly, but if it heats up and the metal-mirror surface appears up again, it creates an ugly donut hole like these from P7's.

edit: I am modding flashlights 3+years now i have destroyed a lot of items, but destroying a so small piece of 40 euro is a pain! :S I wish at least i had destroyed it completely to buy another one, i can't leave such a good led that almost works without trying to do something!


----------



## saabluster

ergotelis said:


> I am not sure if it is fixable as it is. There is no visible point of being damaged, other than the mirror-metal area between the core and the dome. When i light it up, it dissappears and when it gets really hot it appears again. As if it connects on the dome on power up and disconnects when there is a lot of heat.
> 
> A member mentioned that removing the dome is possible and that phlatlight leds can work without dome. Is this really true?
> BTW the led is functioning properly, but if it heats up and the metal-mirror surface appears up again, it creates an ugly donut hole like these from P7's.
> 
> edit: I am modding flashlights 3+years now i have destroyed a lot of items, but destroying a so small piece of 40 euro is a pain! :S I wish at least i had destroyed it completely to buy another one, i can't leave such a good led that almost works without trying to do something!


Does it go away if you push straight down on the dome with your finger?


----------



## ergotelis

Exactly. You are aware of this problem by asking this, when i press the dome it disappears.But i can't see any cut on the dome surface . If it is needed i will try to post a video for everyone else, i have a good black glass that shows how does that surface changes under load.


----------



## saabluster

ergotelis said:


> Exactly. You are aware of this problem by asking this, when i press the dome it disappears.But i can't see any cut on the dome surface . If it is needed i will try to post a video for everyone else, i have a good black glass that shows how does that surface changes under load.


Yup. Been there done that. You have a slight separation of the dome. This could have happen at least two ways. One, you bumped it just enough to cause the silicone gel to tear and allow air under the dome. Secondly it can happen during the soldering/reflow process if the LED has not been baked just prior to the operation. Most, but not all, LEDs will slowly absorb atmospheric moisture. When heated real hot that moisture then turns into steam and has to go somewhere so it expands to create a bubble in the silicone. Even if you bake afterward and get all the moisture out it will not return to new because the cross-linked chains in the silicone have been torn. 

You could try using a high temp epoxy to hold the dome down but it would be a tricky thing all around. Some people have had some success using normal clear silicone from Home Depot or the like to repair their de-domed LEDs. I have my doubts as to how good that is from a light transmission perspective but if you can be clean about it and keep it to a very thin layer it may work. Of course you will have to go ahead and pop the dome all the way off to do the operation.

The silveriness you see are just reflections. The bubble has now caused two reflective surfaces that are bouncing light back and forth. I think you should be able to get the dome off if your careful without damaging the bond wires. They have built in a lot of redundancy so even if you break a few you should be OK. FYI You want the glass to come up and the silicone to stay.


----------



## ergotelis

Thanks for the answer, you do seem to have professional knowledge over led technology. I have a question more,
If i completely remove the dome, will it be possible to use the led in that way permanently?What will be the disadvantages other than the beam profile?

continued in next post:


----------



## ergotelis

quick update, i managed to remove the dome without any problems. It is working fine without it. I would be glad if someone can suggest me the next movement. Stick it up with some kind of glue or silicon or leave it without a dome?
Also, what kind of thermal paste are you using?I used fujik from DX, a white one, most of you know it, but is seems that it burns under high load! I have arctic silver adhensive also, do you think this is better?

THanks!!!!

edit2: If i choose to stick the dome with some superglue or silicone, should i put the glue like a ring on the dome or in the whole surface of the dome?Thanks! Manufacturers how do they stick the dome with the core? Am i going to have problem with high temperatures?Thanks!

edit3: there is something kind of silicone or glue over the core. Can this be cleaned by any ways or should i not touch the core?


----------



## pyro

I can't help much, but don't use superglue!
The fumes will most likely fog up the dome.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

if you can find a clear encapsulant capable of handling the high temperatures, you could just drip a blob on top of the chip. Saabluster's got a thread called LED encapsulation experiments or something, perhaps he can tell you what he's using. I just used norland, but that's because it's what I had on hand. Norland shouldn't be used in situations where it may heat up above 125 degrees Celsius.


----------



## rayman

Just finished my 3D Maglite SST-90 mod. I'm using the driver board by 'Der Wichtel' and a GN200 SST-90. At first I drive the SST-90 at 4.5A. With 3x 32650 protected Li-Ions I get a runtime of a little bit under 3h.







rayman


----------



## ergotelis

Guys domeless sst-90 is working great.Focuses much better. As for total output, i am not to tell you ,because my eyes can't see or judge the difference, if there is. Some experts should know better.
I would like to know, what thermal adhensive do you suggest for the sst?Thanks!


----------



## Techjunkie

I've knocked the domes off of a few MCEs and a few XREs. My advice to you is don't touch it. Leave it exactly as it is. Trying to remove the silicone will likely damage the emitter or tear a bond wire. Reparing/replacing the dome is very likely a lost cause, especially if you're going to run the emitter near max current.

Toss the fujik junk and use the arctic silver adhesive to mount the emitter.

Out of curiosity, did the color of the beam change with the dome removed? A cool white MCE that I knocked the dome off of shifted heavily toward green with the dome removed, but the hotspot is much tighter so it was a trade off, color for throw.



ergotelis said:


> quick update, i managed to remove the dome without any problems. It is working fine without it. I would be glad if someone can suggest me the next movement. Stick it up with some kind of glue or silicon or leave it without a dome?
> Also, what kind of thermal paste are you using?I used fujik from DX, a white one, most of you know it, but is seems that it burns under high load! I have arctic silver adhensive also, do you think this is better?
> 
> THanks!!!!
> 
> edit2: If i choose to stick the dome with some superglue or silicone, should i put the glue like a ring on the dome or in the whole surface of the dome?Thanks! Manufacturers how do they stick the dome with the core? Am i going to have problem with high temperatures?Thanks!
> 
> edit3: there is something kind of silicone or glue over the core. Can this be cleaned by any ways or should i not touch the core?


----------



## ergotelis

hi, i used fujik but it seems that under high current(temp) it burns and smells! I used arctic adhensive and it doesn't seem to stick up well...I now put again fujik but in a very small quantity to test again.
I didn't want to remove the dome but it happened. There was a problem from the beginning.Air was geting between the core and the dome. It was very easy for the SST, it is different than Cree's. Cree dome removal posibility to damage the core is higher than SST. The dome of SST is like a bare small ellipt optic.
I didn't noticed also any color swift.
I might also try to remove the dome of an MCE, i don't need it anymore


----------



## ergotelis

De-domed SST90 top [email protected],5 amp in a MAG with UCL+KD SMO reflector
gets 22770 lux @ 1m.
Nice?  

Now if i try to dedome the sst50 top bin i have, will i be crazy?


----------



## moviles

ergotelis said:


> Now if i try to dedome the sst50 top bin i have, will i be crazy?



man dont do that :duck:

I have one ssr-50 acdidentaly de-domed and the spot with reflectors its better with the dome

I tried to repair it with glue many times but no way, allways bubbles appear in the glue after 20-30 min 

now I have this led without dome and with 23mm aspheric lens, its a flody light


----------



## ma_sha1

I haven't done SSt-50,
But I de-doomed a SST-90, the Hot spot get smaller & mush brighter.
Throws further!


----------



## Al Combs

ergotelis said:


> Guys domeless sst-90 is working great.Focuses much better. As for total output, i am not to tell you ,because my eyes can't see or judge the difference, if there is. Some experts should know better.
> I would like to know, what thermal adhensive do you suggest for the sst?Thanks!


I tried a few experiments similar to saabluster's Experiments in LED encapsulation. I removed the dome on a P7 in an experiment that didn't quite work the way I was hoping. I bought 2 DSVNI's from PhotonFanatic. So these 2 LED's if not identical, being from the same reel would make them at least very similar. The dome removal cause a linear reduction in size of about 20%. I expected it to have much higher surface brightness with corresponding higher throw. It's not even as bright as its twin brother. Other threads I've seen mention as much as 30% reduction in overall lumen output after dome removal. I incorrectly assumed that to be some kind of damage to the LED. I thought since I wasn't actually removing it, I would suffer no reduction in output.

I think what happens is the dome is a hemisphere with the LED at the center. That means whatever portion of the light that doesn't actually exit to dome is reflected right back onto the phosphor surface of the LED. Ordinarily for something to fluoresce, you need to excite whatever the target is with a wavelength of light that has a higher frequency than what you get back. The transmissions graphs of all LED manufacturers show the royal blue peak to be higher than the balance of the "white" curve. So the royal blue reflection excites the phosphor a second time. Of course that's just an unsubstantiated guess.


----------



## ergotelis

ma_sha1 said:


> I haven't done SSt-50,
> But I de-doomed a SST-90, the Hot spot get smaller & mush brighter.
> Throws further!



Do you think that you saw a reduction in overall output?I am trying to do some tests against an MCE- M bin to see if there is a difference in the same current, SST90 must be brighter.


----------



## ma_sha1

ergotelis said:


> Do you think that you saw a reduction in overall output?I am trying to do some tests against an MCE- M bin to see if there is a difference in the same current, SST90 must be brighter.



No reduction, The SST-90 die isn't connected to the doom via optical gel
as seen in XRE. Remove doom does not change die-air boundary & therefore do not reduce Lumen out put while XRE could lose 30% when de-doomed. 

The doom act as secondary optics only & send more light forward,
therefore remove doom of SST-90 will send more light to the side to the reflector & decrease the apparent die size at the same time.

Thus de-doom SST-90 gives more throw with tighter hot-spot.


----------



## Al Combs

ergotelis said:


> Do you think that you saw a reduction in overall output?I am trying to do some tests against an MCE- M bin to see if there is a difference in the same current, SST90 must be brighter.


There was very definitely a reduction in output between my P7 twins. I don't know about the SST-90's first hand. But I think this is a phenomena common to all LED's. Consider the Luminus CST-90 with a dome vs the CBT-90 that has no dome. Both these LED's look like the SST-90. They both have the same 9 square mm area as the SST-90 but on a much beefier heatsink that allows them both to go to 13 amps. The CST-90 with a dome has a 2,750 lumen output vs only 2,200 lumens for the CBT-90 that has no dome. That's a 20% reduction in output. For no other apparent reason than one has a dome and the other does not.

There is a similar situation in the Osram Ostar family where they sell what looks like the same 6 chip LED with and without a dome. The LE W E3B has a silicon dome and an output rating of 390-970 lumens depending on the bin. The LE W E3A without the dome only has an output of 280-820 lumens. That's a 15% reduction in output at the high end. Really they are bin boundaries and not an indication of absolute relative output. The more telling spec was the Max. efficiency: 50 lm/W (white) at 350 mA for the E3B that has a dome vs 36 lm/W (white) at 350 mA for the domeless E3A. That's a 28% reduction in output. I remember thinking at the time it was strange they offered the domeless LED's only in a low power version. Maybe they had no choice.


----------



## ma_sha1

Good analysis! I may not be able to see 20% drop by eyes.


----------



## Al Combs

ma_sha1 said:


> Good analysis! I may not be able to see 20% drop by eyes.


Thank you. Yeah 20% might be hard to see by eye. I have no light meters for that purpose. I was doing a side by side with two MagLite. So while still only a visual estimate, it's much better than from memory. As I mentioned, I had an ≈ 20% reduction in size which would give it only 64% of the original surface area. I was expecting it to be much brighter. It was a much smaller hotspot. But the surface brightness of the hotspot was about the same. Here is a shot of my P7 after surgery (still mounted on the hand microtome stage) and its twin brother...


----------



## ergotelis

Guys a dedomed SST90 works really well, even at 2,5amp!What if i drive it harder that i plan, it will be superb!
Though, i compared it to an MCE top bin driven at the same amp, MCE seems a bit brighter i think,but i am not sure. I will try to read some threads to understand what is the right way to measure total output.
But i do suggest you, if you are showing no pity to your leds, dedome the SST90, you won't regret it!


----------



## Al Combs

SST-90's have a rating of 9 amps. As long as you have a good enough heatsink... One thing I'm curious about. Underneath the dome, is it silicon glue or gooey stuff like they use in a Cree XR-E?


----------



## ergotelis

Al Combs said:


> SST-90's have a rating of 9 amps. As long as you have a good enough heatsink... One thing I'm curious about. Underneath the dome, is it silicon glue or gooey stuff like they use in a Cree XR-E?



No, it is very clean, as if there was no dome installed!I know what you mean, i have dedomed a XR-E and it is not like this. It is very clean. Beamshot is awesome very smooth, as if i am using an OP reflector.
Still experimenting now i shall try a stock mag reflector to see how it works.


----------



## saabluster

Al Combs said:


> SST-90's have a rating of 9 amps. As long as you have a good enough heatsink... One thing I'm curious about. Underneath the dome, is it silicon glue or gooey stuff like they use in a Cree XR-E?


Yes it is attached with a silicone. Not sure if it is an elastomer or gel though.


----------



## Al Combs

saabluster said:


> Yes it is attached with a silicone. Not sure if it is an elastomer or gel though.


Thanks. The reason I asked was I ran across something in my dome removal quest. I forgot to mention to ergotelis in the older rev5 of Cree's XLamp_Reliability.pdf, it used to say the "Wet High-Temperature Operating Life" test was "the most stressful test" they put their LEDs through. The current rev6 of the pdf only lays out the conditions of the test. It doesn't say anything about the importance of it. I'm not sure if it's the phosphor absorbing water and bubbling off or the materials the die is made of corroding that becomes a problem. It may be a condition only Crees are subject to. But as long as his SST-90 is still encapsulated with something I think is important. To take off the goop or the glue and leave it bare might cause a long term stability problems. Again I'm not even sure this is a problem Luminus LEDs are subject to.


----------



## JohnF

ergotelis said:


> Guys a dedomed SST90 works really well, even at 2,5amp!What if i drive it harder that i plan, it will be superb!
> Though, i compared it to an MCE top bin driven at the same amp, MCE seems a bit brighter i think,but i am not sure. I will try to read some threads to understand what is the right way to measure total output.
> But i do suggest you, if you are showing no pity to your leds, dedome the SST90, you won't regret it!



I accidentally de-domed the SST-90 in my nailbender P60 drop in with a large air compressor. I was ready to throw the drop in away, but found that it is now a monster thrower! The hotspot is 1/2 the size before losing the dome and much brighter, throws twice as well. Ceiling bounce test shows no lost overall output. The only downside a is couple of rings on the far outside of the beam.

I thought of trying to re-attach the dome, but after seeing the terrific increase in throw I'm keeping it as is.

John F


----------



## SFG2Lman

interesting find...i would test it, but thats my go to light, i wouldn't want to risk it, and i love the flood, how exactly was your drop-in exposed to high pressure? lol sounds like a good story


----------



## PMM

Hmm interesting..

Thing i did notice was that with the Dome in place I had a whiter light where as with it off if was a warmer colour.

Thought at the time I did not couple it up to any optics / lenses and check out the throw capabilities and weather it was better in that sense.


----------



## JohnF

SFG2Lman said:


> interesting find...i would test it, but thats my go to light, i wouldn't want to risk it, and i love the flood, how exactly was your drop-in exposed to high pressure? lol sounds like a good story



Read more about this happening in the 'led encapsulation' thread, I just posted the whole story with some pre and post dome results.

I dropped the drop-in in the garage, it rolled under a car, collected a bunch of dirt, and I used a high pressure air compressor to blow the dirt off - and the dome came off with the dirt... Oops.

John F


----------



## bradsab

Hi guys, newbie here...
I'm building my second dive light, the first being a modded Mag with one of Wayne's MT4 drop-ins, with each emitter switched separately. The new light is going to be a combo dive/video, with a cannister housed battery pack. I'm trying to keep this as compact as possible. The head will be machined from aluminum bar stock, and will have two SST-90's, one with spot optics, the other with wide flood. The spot will be my primary dive light, while the flood will be for p&s video. The light head will be mounted to the UW camera housing.

I'm looking for small optics and/or reflectors to accomplish both beam patterns. Originally I planned to use Cree MC-Es, because there seemed to be many optic/reflector choices made specifically for it complete with specs and beam shots. But the more I read about the SST-90, I think it's a better choice. I'm finding very few optics/reflectors dedicated to the SST-90. Can you steer me in the right direction? Thanks!


----------



## Techjunkie

Bradsab,

I only have experience with the one SST-90 that I've used so far, but for what it's worth, the color isn't what I'd use for video. I bought a 4500K SST-90, hoping for a white tint that was comparable to MC-E tints 4A and 4B that I have used many times. I have to say that I am a bit disappointed that with all the refelctors that I have tried so far, the SST-90's tint is kind of a sickly yellow.


----------



## bradsab

I'm looking the 5700K, which would be cooler than the 4500K. My other option is 3000K at the expense of some output. Underwater, the color is screwed up anyway; I will likely use a red filter on the camera for daylight filming. Seawater filters out the red first, then the yellow as you go deeper. If the color turns out really cool, I might leave the filter on at night, too.

The MC-E dome and quad chip are enough smaller than the SST-90 that I suspect the optics designed for it won't necessarily work with the SST-90. It looks closer in size to the SST-50. Lenses and reflectors are fairly cheap, and I wouldn't mind buying several and playing with them. But there's so many choices I'd like to narrow it down to a handful. I have a dive trip coming up in 6 weeks, so I need to get moving on the machine work.


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## ma_sha1

bradsab said:


> I'm looking the 5700K, which would be cooler than the 4500K. My other option is 3000K at the expense of some output. Underwater, the color is screwed up anyway; I will likely use a red filter on the camera for daylight filming. Seawater filters out the red first, then the yellow as you go deeper. If the color turns out really cool, I might leave the filter on at night, too.



I believe the very to Bin are only exist for 6500K & 5700K. 4500K top bin has lower output than 5700K. You can get 3000K the same out put as 4500K but both below that of the 5700K/6500K Bin. 

The 6500K I tried is too blue (Early sample sold by Photonfenatics) I am sticking with the 5700K bin now, not blue but The OP reflected light (The hot spot) shows slight yellow. The flood is white thou.



Techjunkie said:


> I bought a 4500K SST-90, hoping for a white tint that was comparable to MC-E tints 4A and 4B that I have used many times. I have to say that I am a bit disappointed that with all the refelctors that I have tried so far, the SST-90's tint is kind of a sickly yellow.



I also noticed slight yellow tint on my 5700K bins. I've only seen this happen with SST/SST (Both on 50 & 90). I've also tried SMO reflector (Stock Mag), the hot spot is whiter(but with ugly beam), as soon I stippled it to OP, then the hot spot turned slight yellow. I have also found by accident that if you mount a Optics in the center, the light came through the optics is white. 

If you look into the photos of this build, you can see the color difference on two hot spot
side by side, one from OP reflector (yellower) & One from Aspherical lens (Whiter).
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/250379

When I merged the two mechanism together into a single beam, I was able to roughly double the intensity of the hot spot by re-colinmating the flood( the primary objective), but also achieved a nice tint correction (Turned the SST-90 Hot Spot whiter). It's more appealing now with no visible yellow tint.


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## Techjunkie

My experience is the same with the 4500K version. When the light is very concentrated by an optic or an SMO reflector into a nice tight spot, the hotspot is much whiter. Shallow, MOP reflectors yield a yellow hotspot. I also think that higher drive current yields a whiter spot, similar to bulbs and warm white CREE XREs.

In the following shots, the only light illuminating anything is from the flaslights. Notice how the "spill" of the aspheric on the SST paints the white wall oven yellow, whereas the spill of the MOP reflector on the 4B tint MC-E paints it white. (Camera forced to white balance of 5200k in both shots, same exposure settings.)

SST-90 4500K @6A,___|______|MC-E 4B @4A,
aspheric, 25ft.:_______|______|52mm MOP, 25ft.:


|______|



(click for larger pics)




ma_sha1 said:


> I believe the very to Bin are only exist for 6500K & 5700K.
> 4500K top bin has lower output than 5700K. You can get 3000K the same out put as 4500K but both below that of the 5700K/6500K Bin.
> 
> The 6500K I tried is too blue (Early sample sold by Photonfenatics)
> I am sticking with the 5700K bin now, not blue but The OP reflected light
> (The hot spot) shows slight yellow. The flood is white thou.
> 
> You can see the hot spot has slight different color vs. the spill,
> I've only seen this happen with SST/SST (Both on 50 & 90).
> 
> I've also tried SMO reflector (Stock Mag), the hot spot is whiter,
> but as soon I stippled it to OP, then the hot spot turned slight yellow.
> 
> I have also found by accident that if you mount a Optics in the center,
> the light came through the optics is white.


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## bradsab

bradsab said:


> The new light is going to be a combo dive/video, with a cannister housed battery pack. I'm trying to keep this as compact as possible. The head will be machined from aluminum bar stock, and will have two SST-90's, one with spot optics, the other with wide flood. The spot will be my primary dive light, while the flood will be for p&s video. The light head will be mounted to the UW camera housing.


 
I've been told you can't get too much light for UW video, so the project has now swelled to three SST-90's; one for primary dive, two for video flood. The light will switch from the single LED to the dual flood LED's via an on-off-on toggle rated @ 15A. The two flood -90's will be wired parallel w/18ga. cable approx 2' long

I'm going to direct drive these with nine D Ni-MH 12,000mAh batteries in a cannister arranged 3X3 to supply 3.6Vf.

My nooobie brain thinks this will work, but if you guys see a problem, please stop me from frying $150 worth of emitters. I'm better suited for the mechanics of the build, i.e. head/housing/cannister, than the LEDs, but this is fun, you know? But it won't be if I ruin the LEDs.

Thanks!


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## JLumens

I made a sst 90 light its geting 5 amps from one battery. i used a mte direct drive with brass heat sink. a aw mir 18650 battery its here if u r instersted in the resalts im gessing 1600 lumen by the phatlight chart.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxLgE6-GSiI


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## pepko

pepko said:


> YES .. it's working perfect ...
> 
> http://forum.fotonmag.cz/index.php?s=&showtopic=804&view=findpost&p=14506
> 
> here is XR-E with small aspherical (23mm)
> 
> 
> and here is SST-90 with KD 52mm aspherical for M*g
> 
> *[over-size images deleted - DM51]*


 

3" aspheric is better with SST-90 ... I measured 110klux from it ... 2" aspheric (52mm for M*g from KD) makes only 40klux ...


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## Paul Baldwin

I sooooooooooooooooo need that setup in my projector! :bow::duck::mecry:


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## moviles

pepko said:


> 3" aspheric is better with SST-90 ... I measured 110klux from it ... 2" aspheric (52mm for M*g from KD) makes only 40klux ...



75mm lens? were you buy this lens? what host ? pictures of the dropin
we want review and internal pictures of this nice flashlight now!!!!!! :goodjob:
*EDIT:*
I found some more pictures



:
http://forum.fotonmag.cz/index.php?showtopic=1297&st=0
were you have buy the lens?
*EDIT:*are ebay nissan murano lens




ebay Item number:380169988479


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## bshanahan14rulz

You can get less-than-clear aspherical glass lenses, generally about 2.5" or 3", from car headlamps that are equipped with projectors. You can also find clear ones too, though the most common ones are replica ZKW 3" and may not be aspherical but possibly planoconvex. If you can make do with 2.5" lenses, you can find replica FX or replica TSX (or real older TSX) lenses for a decent price... Problem is, sellers might only sell in pairs.

Retrofitting HIDs into cars that didn't come with them is more commonplace than you would think. If only more people did this instead of using drop-in HID kits. Even better would be if people could keep their lights stock, but that's not gonna happen....


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## DeeperDeeper

Here's some lens theory for those who slept during physics lessons...
Correct me if I'm wrong....

The lens diameter does not directly define the throw tightness, but it is the focus length (=F) of the lens. If F is bigger, the lens must further away from the led to make the beam sharp. This causes more light to be wasted, unless the lens diameter is big enough. 

The beam bright spot size can be calculated: D2=D1 * S2 / S1 , where D1=Led bright area diameter, D2=beam bright spot diameter, S1=dist from lens to led, D2=dist form lens to target. And to make the beam sharp, we MUST adjust the lens distances so that 1/F = 1/S1 + 1/S2, where F= lens focus distance.

So to make tighter beam we need thinner lenses (=large F) with large diameter and our lamp will be longer.

For SST-90, D1=3 mm. If I get a bright spot size 450mm at dist 3000mm, then the distance from led to lens is about 20 mm (S1 = D1 * S2 / D2 = 3*3000/450). this is true with a lens like DX sku.12834.


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## pepko

moviles said:


> 75mm lens? were you buy this lens? what host ? pictures of the dropin
> we want review and internal pictures of this nice flashlight now!!!!!! :goodjob:



*https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/280018

*


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