# Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review **NEW TESTS ADDED**



## Zephrus (Oct 22, 2012)

*Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65W HID*


Magicfire MF65

Flux: ......................... 5000 Lumen
Startup time: .............. 15s (cold) more than 3 seconds (hot)
Colour temperature: ..... 4300K
Bulb life: .................... 3000 hours
Volume: ..................... 207mm*49mm - lamp holder (reflector) diameter 70mm
Weight: ..................... 800 grams (excluding battery)
Material: .................... 6061 aviation aluminum
Surface treatment: ...... hardened oxidation
Battery: ..................... 4x18650

Additional:
Reflector Type: ... SMO - Smooth - Aluminum Alloy
Max. Range: ....... 1500 Meters
Actuation: ......... Tail Cap Switch
Lens: ................. High Temperature Hardened Glass, Anti-Reflective Coating

_Caution:customer should turn off the flashlight after 20 minutes of light on to cool down the flashlight._








From the distributor: Flashlight-Torch


Mine is on it's way. Should be here (hopefully) sometime today  

Planned refit and additions to flashlight
Safety features:
1. HV anti-arc compound (4KV/mil) .05mm lined to inner tube
2. 140°F/60°C (TempF) 7 Amp TCO added to battery carrier
thermally coupled to each cell

Many know that the release of the MF40W a while back wasn't a complete success. Many electrical and cutoff issues as well as a couple smoked reflectors. Problems with fitting certain types of 18650 batteries. Also onto the scene in the past couple months has been the Fire Foxes 3 (FF3) with a confirmed output of 4000+ Lumen thanks to a _LabSphere test_ by member *Toppe*. At this point it would seem that the FF3 with an OP reflector is the highest output for _its size_ coming in at 58mm (2.28 inches) shorter than the MF65W, although the MF65W is expected to have a higher lumen output. So can the operational performance, light output and overall light throw of the MF65W justify it as an addition and/or option to the FF3? That is part of what this review will be about.

Based on an earlier review and *tests by Mohan*, the MF65W settles in at around 59 watts (to the ballast) after around 30+ seconds of operation. The expected energy transference to the bulb is expected to be approximately 47-48 watts.

Anti-Arc compound:







TCO Type







Thermal Conductive RTV


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## Zephrus (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Finally arrived 

A few opening shots. Flashlight was well packed. No damage that I can see. 






























































Charging the batteries now. More to come.


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## BVH (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Thanks for the tip on the anti arc compound. Ill have to get some of that. Could have used it a week ago to reinsulate my 45 KV Marconi coil. I used liquid elect tape at 1.1kv per 6.5 mil.


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## Zephrus (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

No problem BHV. We used to use that stuff for coating flyback windings when we built plasma globes (also running about 45KV) and other HV gadgets. It works great. And thanks for all your greats post as well. Learning a lot from them.


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## BVH (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

How many layers of liquid tape did you use? its fun to learn here and give back


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## mohanjude (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Nice photos. Look forward to your findings.


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## Zephrus (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*



BVH said:


> How many layers of liquid tape did you use? its fun to learn here and give back



We didn't use the liquid tape but about 1-2mm of the HV dope applied to the secondary side of the core was enough to prevent any arcing to the core, as the secondary winding housing had a fair degree of protection already for running at around 20-25KV. For any exposed leads or connections we'd build it up to at least 3mm or so and finish it off with a coat of anti-corona lacquer. For higher level of protection you might want to check out something like this:

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/protective-coatings/0569313/


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## Zephrus (Oct 22, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*



mohanjude said:


> Nice photos. Look forward to your findings.



Thanks Mohan. I'll have to see how far I get today since I discovered that my bulb was broken near the base (at the level of the high temp potting compound) and I hate having to try to coax metal from glass.


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## Zephrus (Oct 23, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Update
Well I emailed Judy at Flashlight-Torch. As always she respond in a prompt fashion and said she would have a new bulb sent out to me this week. Always nice to know customer service is good. In the meantime I'm trying to re-lead the broken bulb.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 23, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Bummer, was looking for another shoot out MF2 vs FF3


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## Toppe (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Ok guys, MF65W is here! Just under 3 days from China to Finland. Unbelievable! :thumbsup:

I made some quickly test (light output, ceiling bounce) and it seems that it beats clearly Polarion PH40, but light output is allmost same compared to FF3. I will go later this week (or next week) and i will make an official test. Maybe some beamshots also(PH40,FF3 and MF65w).

Only problems so far is that inner tube which holds batteries is stupidly made too small at diameter. It's really frustrating put even unprotected Panasonics... Other thing is very loud ballast noise. But if it works well other ways, i can forgive those things


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## Zephrus (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Great deal Toppe. Nice new avatar by the way. I see you have the lineup in formation :thumbsup:
Can't wait to see the LabSphere tests. As you saw, my bulb was cracked when I received mine  so hopefully the bulb will get here quicker than the flashlight did (10 days from ordering to being at my door). Aside from that everything seems pretty nice about the light. The reflector seems nicer than I expected. Not electroformed but very polished. I like the feel and machining a lot. You're right about the battery carrier that it can be improved on. Of course I'll know more when I actually get to operate it.

I gotta say, it would be nice if there was a more convenient and well stocked bulb distributor for the vast range and size of HID flashlight that exist. I've looked around the internet a lot for easier-to-obtain replacement bulbs but it's mostly vehicle headlamps and that sort of thing.


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## Doberman (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Thanks a lot for all for that information posted in this thread so far.
This brings the 65 Watts MF back into my focus. I own the 40W version and one recommendation to the new 65W owners is to give at least 2-3 full cell turns run time to the flashlight without the frontglass in it. I have meanwhile the second reflector (that you can get separately from cnqg for a few bucks) that is smoked in the MF40. Must be even more frustrating if that happens in this little beast.

Can´t wait for Toppe´s measuring results. 
And, again, nice avatar; Toppe, good choice of HID´s; a Microfire K3500 could fit well in between ;-)

Regards


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## Toppe (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Thank to you guys :thumbsup: Without this forum i would probably never knew anything about these incredible HID's (FF/MF).

Zephrus, too bad that your new MF is DOA. Hope that you get it working asap.

Doberman, Can you explain more accurate, what causes that reflector went smoky? Something burns inside flashlight head housing?


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## Zephrus (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Thanks, Toppe. It was a bummer but the new bulb should be here before long and I'll be in business.
I don't presume to answer the question you meant for Doberman. With the MF40s there were some issues with the reflectors getting smoke up during initial use ... more than likely because of the potting compound or other chemicals around the bulb or in the flashlight that were not fully cured/dry being heated by the bulb. If you run the flashlight for a while without the lens on the first couple times, if there is any chemical vapor, it will be free to escape and not smoke up your reflector. It's not a certainty that the reflector will get smoked but may be a wise precaution still. Also remember not to tail stand your HID for too long if you do run it for a while as it is bad for the bulb. Learned that from BVH.


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## BVH (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

I should clarify that all of my discussions on lamp orientation apply to DC lamps and not to AC lamps - I'd guess the FF3 is AC to the bulb as are most automotive-type ballasts. AC lamps have current flowing both directions.  Short arcs are pretty much DC - as far as I have found.


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## Doberman (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*



Toppe said:


> [..]
> Doberman, Can you explain more accurate, what causes that reflector went smoky? Something burns inside flashlight head housing?



Zephrus pointed it out exactly: My assumption is also that it is bulb potting compound or other material that produces gases that apply on the reflector when they get hot. 
With receiving the 2nd reflector i ran the flashlight 3 times for a complete charged set of 3200ers Panasonics (about 45-50 minutes each) without a mounted front glass. 
After the second use with frontglass even that reflector startet getting blind.
Switched now back to the first reflector and will use the FL over the winter-time with that one to switch to the better one in spring..
Pls see picture for detail:
http://www.abload.de/img/sam_99965jknj.jpg


Your image is too large and has been replaced with a link. Please resize and repost.
See Rule #3 If you post an image in your post, please downsize the image to no larger than 800 x 800 pixels. - Thanks Norm


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## Toppe (Oct 24, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Ok, i just think that this should be covered by warranty, if not then I can not give too much points to the seller / manufacturer.


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## Zephrus (Oct 28, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*



BVH said:


> I should clarify that all of my discussions on lamp orientation apply to DC lamps and not to AC lamps - I'd guess the FF3 is AC to the bulb as are most automotive-type ballasts. AC lamps have current flowing both directions. Short arcs are pretty much DC - as far as I have found.



Thanks for the clarification BVH.




Toppe said:


> Ok, i just think that this should be covered by warranty, if not then I can not give too much points to the seller / manufacturer.


 
I don't remember where I read it (may have been here?) but someone whose reflector got smoked said they carefully cleaned it off with some simple Windex (or similar cleaner) and it worked beautifully. Got all the smoke residue off the reflector and more-or-less made it "like new."


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## Doberman (Oct 29, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Hi Zephrus,

read that, too. The first time my reflector got smoky it helped cleaning it with a wet tissue to get it back to ~90%. 
The second time i had to clean the reflector even glass or oven cleaner did not help to get rid of the smoky precipitate. This was the reason, why i ended up ordering a second reflector.


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## ma_sha1 (Oct 29, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

I agree with potting compound being the issue. The noise is gone from production model,
likely that they potted the ballast. I did it myself as I had the un potted pre-production version.

After installing the potting materials, I run the light for 15min w/o front glass on, to evaporize the smoke. 
depends on the compound they used, this may need to be done longer. 

It would make sense to me that if you guys could run the light w/o the glass & evaporize the smoke to avoid getting those on reflector & lens ?


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## Zephrus (Oct 29, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Ok finally received the new bulbs today. Flashlight-Torch was good enough to send me two! So thanks, Judy, for that. Their customer service has truly been first rate. - Replacement was straight forward and easy. Just cut the new leads to the proper length, solder and heat shrink wrap. Then carefully screw everything back into position being mindful of the bulb. Won't be able to get any tests done today but here is a pic of the bulb in full operation. Think I shot this at ISO 100, F22 @ 1/640th for any who may be wondering.


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## Zephrus (Oct 30, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Interesting how the light's profile looks more like Mohan's 40W than his 65W. Hmm. Not sure what to make of it until I do the current/wattage tests. The ballast lead shadow is slightly visible in the fringe area and we can see a bit of artifacting from the reflector.
*
Profile*







Quick beamshot video. I thought doing a video of the MF might be a little more indicative of how it looks in real life as opposed to doing long exposure shots, but I think it's a horse a piece. The light looks a bit brighter and clearer in person. - It took a little while to get the focus while the MF was warming up. The tree directly across the lake is approximately 425 feet away. I was "lightsabering" the light from time to time as to not peev off the neighbors too much.





*Power/Wattage Consumption Test*



*
Ceiling Bounce Lux Test*
Ebay Light: ...... ~300-350 Lumen
Fenix TK35 ....... 860 Lumen
MF65W ........... ~4000-4500 Lumen?









-


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## Doberman (Oct 31, 2012)

*Re: Magic Fire 'Scorpion' 65 Watt HID Review and Refit*

Thanks for sharing !
Is it possible that you do a spot LUX measuring @1 or 2 meters ? 
I do have the same LUX meter and it would be interesting for me to see the additional sum of light coming out of the MF65 compared to the MF40.

Thanks


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## Zephrus (Oct 31, 2012)

Here ya go, Doberman.


*Direct Spot Lux Test*




*FLIR Profile - Thermal Heating and Gradation*


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## hahoo (Oct 31, 2012)

Zephrus said:


> Here ya go, Doberman.
> 
> 
> *Direct Spot Lux Test*
> ...





nice, tx for the time and effort...
hard to believe saal is getting 250,00 lux or more out of that tn31...

i guess this light would still put out more overall light than the modded tn31 ??


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## Doberman (Nov 1, 2012)

Thats great value for the MF65; just measured my MF40 (the same Lux Meter that Zephrus uses), dont get over 70kLux @ one meter.
Will change to the non smoked reflector and try to get a better focused hotspot later this day, but it´s quite clear so far; big improvement from the MF40 to the MF65.

Thanks Zephrus for the effort you put in that; especially the thermal heating scene is great.


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## Toppe (Nov 1, 2012)

Nice measurements Zephrus. I'm sorry guys, i can't get those labsphere test's because company that owns the eguipment is just too busy right now. Hopefully it can be done later this year. But i can test ceiling bounce and it will tell how it compare against ff3 and ph40 (because we know exact output of these lights).

Magic Fire 65w is really good light (at that price), but it also have drawbacks:

-Colour of brigtest spot is very bluish and lot's of red in the edges of light pattern (highlighted in snow conditions)
-Artifacts in the light pattern
-Brightens slowly
-Is heated a lot (it's good to turn off after 15min)
-build quality is good but only for that price

Polarion is still THE KING but you can buy almost eight MF65W for that price :thinking:

Hopefuly i can get some beamshots soon. Ph40 vs little beasts in snowy winter conditions


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## yifu (Nov 1, 2012)

Doberman said:


> Thats great value for the MF65; just measured my MF40 (the same Lux Meter that Zephrus uses), dont get over 70kLux @ one meter.
> Will change to the non smoked reflector and try to get a better focused hotspot later this day, but it´s quite clear so far; big improvement from the MF40 to the MF65.
> 
> Thanks Zephrus for the effort you put in that; especially the thermal heating scene is great.


With higher output lights you will have to at least measure the lux at 5 meters of so and calculate back. The beam won't have converged if you measure it at 1m. Ma_sha's figures on the FF3 from 10 meters is 250 000 lux, the MF65 with a larger SMO reflector should be higher than that.


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## CaptainRogersUK (Dec 1, 2012)

Have any of the pre production issues been sorted yet with all those who ordered these via Ric?

Just wondered if Ric was aware of the issues with wome of the one's being delivered with faults.

Where is the link for us members to place a order again as I can not find it.

Output looks good if only the teething problems could be resolved 

Keep up the good work..


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## CaptainRogersUK (Dec 1, 2012)

sorry my error.... i thought this was the same as the cncquality hid thrower and it was not 

but can you tell me where is link for this hid as i am viewing from mobile and can not find it?

thank you


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## Toppe (Dec 18, 2012)

Reflector went to a smoky even though I used a flashlight without a reflector and front glass for several hours. Hope that they send me a spare for free. If not then I certainly can not recommend this flashlight. It is also a fact that the batteries could explode (or even melt the whole thing) if you try to use this for longer periods of time.


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## Doberman (Dec 18, 2012)

Hi Toppe,
bought my MF40 at Cnqualitygoods; they charged me $8 for a new reflector; money was quite well spent. 
But even though, i would recommend to use your old reflector for a longer time. My second one also got smokey. 
The potting stuff seems to emit gases for quite some time.


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## Samppa (Dec 20, 2012)

Hi Toppe, Doberman and other Magic Scorpion owners,

I have been looking into buying my first powerful HID. I think I cannot (at least yet) justify dropping over $1k to a Polarion. Thus, I'm interested in MF40 / MF65 or Firefoxes FF3. 

But reading the threads here makes me wonder if buying any of these would just be a waste of money if the blurring/smoking reflector issue cannot be fixed even by changing the reflector.

So, does anyone have a MF65 without this issue? In other words, is there any evidence that the fume or gas emission will *ever* stop?


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## Samppa (Dec 21, 2012)

Argh! Too late already! A couple of MF65 just became available during the dark hours of last night. You can guess the rest! Well, if it the reflector issue newer settles, i'll take the whole light apart and build something exciting from it.


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## Zephrus (Dec 28, 2012)

Samppa, I would definitely let the flashlight run through at least two fulls runs of the batteries, if not more.


After I put my lens back on, I would check the reflector consistently to see if it was getting smoked. At one point, sure enough, I noticed the smoke residue lightly starting to appear, but because I was checking it often I feel I caught it in time. I used a micro-fiber cloth to thoroughly clean the reflector and it's at least 99.999% as new. In other words, clean to the point that I can't notice any difference.

I haven't used my MF65 much since the tests so I can't comment on how long this problem could last or if it will eventually subside, although I can say it becomes much less of an issue with time. You may want to clean your reflector with a micro-fiber cloth for, say, the first 10 hours of use just as a matter of course. Eventually the chemicals causing the smoking simply have to expire.


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## Samppa (Jan 2, 2013)

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. I just received the light and quickly tested it. The total amount of light output seems OK but I'm not completely blown away by the throw. My eyes may be fooling me, but side to side it looks like stock Thrunite TN31 equals or even out-throws the MF65. I don't have a lux meter so I could be wrong. I could try to fiddle with the bulb and optimize the focal point, but I doubt it will help much as the brightest hotspot is already very small.

Do you have any idea what the bulb actually is? I see that it is fixed to a plastic holder with some epoxy-like hard white "glue". But it would be great to know a source and/or model, or a compatible bulb from any manufacturer. My bulb does look a bit foggy on the critical arc surface part of the glass. Maybe this light would be better with a DIY bulb holder with some other bulb installed? 

The reflector is not perfect (many small dots and dust) but OK for the price. The reflector's shape seems good enough as it is possible to collimate the brightest spot of the arc into a very thin hotspot.

I will try to run it as much as possible without the reflector to bake away the smoke and gases before using it for longer time.


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## scheven_architect (Jan 3, 2013)

anyone who has a comparison of an ebay HID vs this magicfire?


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## Samppa (Jan 3, 2013)

Nope, but I remember seeing here somewhere beamshots which compared TN31 and some ebay HIDs. The TN31 seems to win slightly in throw. Based on testing against my own TN31, my guess is that this Magic Fire 65W is about in the same league than the ebay HIDs. Some ebay variations may be better, some worse.


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## CNR (Jan 6, 2013)

Hi everyone, thank you Zephrus for a great review.
I noticed that at least 2 ppl in here have the MF65W, FF3 and the Microfire Warrior III which i also own, can anyone let me know their impression of the 2 lights compared with the K3500 in real world use ? (night walking in unknown terrain).
I mean, how would they rate the difference in output and beam pattern ? slight, big, huge ? any info will be appreciated, my main problem with the Microfire is runtime (67mins), as it's battery packs (as spares) are way more expensive than a set of 4x16850 , but on the other hand i wouldn't like to spend 250-300USD on a light that performs about the same as the K3500 even if they are a bit smaller and lighter.


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## Samppa (Jan 9, 2013)

I am beginning to get frustrated with this light. The battery tube is just idiotically small. It seems that it is impossible to run this light with protected Panasonic 3400 mAh batteries. Eagletac is the only one that seems to fit regarding the battery diameter (and even they are painfully tight). But their overcurrent protection triggers almost always, i can get the light to boot up maybe once per 10 tries on a full 4.2 V battery, but not at all when the voltage goes under 4 V. Their overcurrent protection should be at around 5-6 A. I also have Keeppower 3400 batteries which allow as much as 10 A, which could be enough, but they are FAR too fat to fit, even with violence. 

MF65 or MF40 owners please help me! Are there any protected 3400 mAh Panasonics that would both fit and provide enough current? If not what about 3100 mAh? Running unprotected with this light is absolutely out of the question, as it is just one massive overcurrent sucking ticking time bomb toaster oven for batteries!


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## Samppa (Jan 9, 2013)

I disassembled the light a bit more to see how the bulb assembly works and if the focus could be adjusted. Well, the good news is that the bulb is very easy to change, only two simple wire-to-wire solders. Bad news is that the bulb system's mechanical construction is a joke. Basically, there is no construction. The bulb system is just pressed against the soft electronics potting material by a large nut and collar. It's place and orientation are pretty random and impossible to fine tune reliably. Well, probably the fine tuning would not help anyway, because the bulb glass is so foggy that there is no sharp focus point available.


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## Samppa (Jan 10, 2013)

scheven_architect said:


> anyone who has a comparison of an ebay HID vs this magicfire?



Here is the comparison I talked about earlier:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/15715

I am seeing very similar results with my MF65 vs TN31. More lumens and flood with the MF65, but very ugly, multicolored and messy beam (=hard to identify objects far away). 

My bottom line for all people considering MF40 or MF65 would be: Think very carefully what you want. If you just want a backyard toy for 10 minute bursts to show off to friends, after which you quickly have to disassemble the light to prevent battery overheating and smoke/gases blurring the reflector, take the MF65 (and remember to buy unprotected panasonics). But if you want a light that you can use in real life - as in have decent bettery life, weatherproofing, adjustable power, mechanical strength, reliability - forget these chinese HIDs. At this price point, go for high power LED: the Fenix TK75, the new Thrunite TN30 with 3 x XM-L2, or if you want better throw than any small HID (even Polarions) can offer, go for the new Saabluster's modded TN31mb (400kcd) or DEFT-X (900kcd).


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