# New design 12" 3x X-ML from Lightlake.



## ljw2k (Jul 26, 2011)

Waited eagerly for nearly 4 weeks until a knock at the door a the nice postman said i have a parcel here which needs a signature please.

My first thoughts was Wow it looks BIG ( Must be well packed ) 

Could not wait so i opened it up and first thing was the 2 batteries that fell out only to be faced with the below :







They have admitted they have sent the wrong item ( NEVER ! ) and want me to send it back at an estimated cost £50 postage ( I don't think so ).

Just waiting to see if they are going to send the replacement skyray or refund me in full and not a good start to my first order from lightlake i must say.


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## 2100 (Jul 26, 2011)

This is really crap.... another guy from BLF ordered the 3 x XM-L from lightake too and it is faulty. Obviously no QC at all. Better to get from DX/Kaidomain/Manafont, they are the only regularly tested sites with at least a decent form of customer service.


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## ergotelis (Jul 26, 2011)

This is sick!!! I can't imagine your face while opening and seeing this thing!!! 
And i wouldn't like to be in your position! :S


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## roopeseta (Jul 26, 2011)

be sure to check that the bunny is jhust a toy and not some thriller mvie bunny, hahaha that bunny omg.


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## ljw2k (Jul 27, 2011)

It was described on there website as " 12" CUTE Bunny "  it scares me to look at the damn thing even the dog won't play with it


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## Chicago X (Jul 27, 2011)

That's a "Raving Rabbid."

It's from a Wii game - basically an alien mutated rabbit....


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## ^Gurthang (Jul 27, 2011)

What ever you do, DO NOT LET IT REPRODUCE!!!!


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## ljw2k (Jul 27, 2011)

It will probably end up at it's resting place Sunday ( Local Gun Club )


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## JNieporte (Jul 27, 2011)

So... the rabbit doesn't come with triple XM-Ls? For some reason, I want that thing...


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## spexmaniac (Jul 29, 2011)

assuming you paid by paypal just complain to them and they'll get your money back, it is pretty hiddeous, especially as you wanted a torch.


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## ljw2k (Jul 29, 2011)

I have logged a complaint with paypal and we are in the middle stages where Lightake want me to send the item back to them at my cost £12:75 and then they will send me the torch or they have offered me a $2 coupen if i keep it


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## shao.fu.tzer (Jul 29, 2011)

Well that settles it for me... Never ordered from Lightake and now I never will!!! Thanks for posting this!!!


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## EZO (Jul 29, 2011)

ljw2k, That is quite an interesting looking rabbit you received in the mail and the crushed box is certainly a nice touch. Good thing you didn't buy this as a gift. Assuming this rabbit is intended as a child's toy it has quite a scary expression on its face in a "bad clown" sort of way. What I'd really like to know is what this thing actually does when you put the batteries in?


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## shao.fu.tzer (Jul 29, 2011)

Does it take 18650's? Maybe they ran out of stock bodies at SkyRay's factory so they started using bunny hosts in the meantime!


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## ljw2k (Jul 29, 2011)

The Rabbit does Zero NOTHING just sits there all day with that same old scarey look on it's face but it awaits it's execution this weekend or when paypal refunds my monies.


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## EZO (Jul 29, 2011)

ljw2k said:


> The Rabbit does Zero NOTHING just sits there all day with that same old scarey look on it's face but it awaits it's execution this weekend or when paypal refunds my monies.


 You mean they sent batteries that have nothing to do with this product? What a value! 

I hope if you decide to execute the evil rabbit you will document the whole affair for us.  :devil: 

Seriously, though, this thread is actually rather useful in that about a year ago I almost ordered something from Lightake but something about the web site and the lack of enthusiasm about them here at CPF made me to decide not to, so my instincts were apparently on target.


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## ljw2k (Jul 29, 2011)

Yes i ordered 2x 18650 batteries along with the Skyray x3 X-ML and i got the batteries but no flashlight.

At First they told me that they had sent the right items that i ordered and there weights corresponded with the items until i proved them wrong when i took pictures of each item weighed on scales which came to 0.66 kg.

Many email later i started a paypal Dispute which i am waiting for a refund if they rule in my favour.


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## EZO (Jul 29, 2011)

Oh. From the way you originally described opening the package I thought perhaps the batteries came with the rabbit, even if they do seem a bit large for a toy. That's too bad. I was hoping it would make strange noises, wiggle its ears, blink its eyes and change facial expressions. I mean, for the cost of a Skyray 3X-ML it's the least you could expect.

Really though, ljw2k, I hope after all the hassle you resolve this to your satisfaction.


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## r1derbike (Jul 30, 2011)

No wonder the rabbit looks like his knickers are in a wad! Look at the box!

That blows. Hope resolution comes quickly.


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## batvette (Aug 7, 2011)

This is a funny thread except for the "dude you got ripped off!" thingy. 

I can't believe after sending them a picture of this thing he actually has to go through escalating to a claim with ebay, let alone that they want this monstrousity back. Really is the return shipping more than it's worth? Is it worth ANYthing? 

I was looking at lightlake but ended up going with a DRY from CNqualitygoods, hope they don't have any sqoowey wabbits there!


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## qwertyydude (Aug 7, 2011)

Last time dealextreme sent me the wrong item, it was a nice and even more expensive item, a Wii Controller. When I notified them they told me to keep it and sent me the correct item. Lightlake should be ashamed.


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## kneighbour (Aug 7, 2011)

I bought the Skyray 3 x XM-L from Lightake (plus the batteries). It arrived, as did the batteries. The problem is the Skyray is only putting out about 90 lumens on max. I measured 85mA at the endclip on high. It took well over a week of emails for them to accept that it was not working as described. I even sent movies of beamshots. After the beamshots, they said it was normal - ie quite ok. They obviously do not know what 3000 lumens looks like! I think they finally accepted that it was not putting out anything like 3000 lumens. 

Anyway, since I am a technician, I said I could replace the driver if they sent me a new one. That is where things stand at the moment. They said they would try and send me a replacement driver...and I am hoping they will.

All in all, Lightake seemed fairly responsive (for a chinese supplier). I was kind of expecting them just to ignore me, but they did seem to want to fix the problem. Like the OP, I am certainly not going to send it back at my cost - what a waste of money that would be. 

All in all, the Skyray 3 XM-L looks fairly well made. I think I have the Rev 0 model, which seems to have had a number of problems. I have since ordered the Trustfire version from Manafont, so will see how that one shakes out.


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## batvette (Aug 11, 2011)

Honestly the "send it back to us in China" thing seems like:

A. They don't believe you. 
B. They expect you may be too lazy to actually do it. 
C. They figure you won't outlay more cash for postage. 
D. They may be able to return it to the mfr, unless they made it.

IIRC it was either DX or Kai that has a FL USA address for returns. Much more reasonable. I had a defective RF detector. I returned it, they sent another, it was bad as well. I gave up at that point, figured we were both out a few bucks and it wasn't meant to be. 

As for the SkyRay, I was about to buy one and went with the DRY instead, but it appears either could be used without a driver for short bursts and that's all I want anyway. My solarforce L2 w/P7 has been a great light since I broke the driver and went DD. Starting to wonder why we even need them.


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## ljw2k (Aug 12, 2011)

Just an update paypal will make a decision on the 17th August so i am hoping that they will opt in my favour after all i have tried endless to please lakelight.

Will update 17th August of the outcome.


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## ljw2k (Aug 24, 2011)

Update 

Paypal has declined my refund and closed the case even though i have given all the evidence including photographs and weight and from now on they are not getting another penny from me in comission i would rather send the cash in the post or bt from now on .......................so fricking Angry.

Dear andrew warren,

We have concluded our investigation into your Buyer Claim.


Seller's Name: Zhou Zhengsheng
Seller's Email: [email protected]
Seller's Transaction ID: 22M88382045919506

Transaction Date: 29 Jun 2011
Transaction Amount: -$59.97 USD
Your Transaction ID: 794693920N845970R
Case Number: PP-001-384-414-821

Buyer's Transaction ID: 794693920N845970R



In response to your claim, the seller has provided proof of postage
indicating that the item was posted to you. Because the seller was able to
provide proof of postage, we cannot reverse this transaction or issue a
refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to
amicably resolve this matter.

PayPal does not tolerate fraud or illegal activities. Your complaint has
been noted in the record of the PayPal member you reported. If we find this
member has violated our policies, we will investigate and take appropriate
action. If this occurs, you may be contacted in the future about the status
of this complaint.

To make sure future transactions proceed smoothly, we suggest you visit the
PayPal site and click the Safety Advice link located at the top of any
page. There you will find tips on how to avoid fraudulent sellers in the
"Fraud Prevention Tips for Buyers" section.

Yours sincerely,
PayPal


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## LumenHound (Aug 24, 2011)

I feel for you ljw2k. It looks like lightake/popbuying may be headed down the same path that caused them to not take Paypal at their popbuying site.


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## shao.fu.tzer (Aug 25, 2011)

Paypal did that to me on a transaction with Kaidomain - when you open a case, if you select item not as described, they automatically rule in these Chinese free shipping sites' favor. I even had an invoice showing that I had paid a total of $20 something dollars but only one $3 item was listed. That's why I now order things one at a time...


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## ljw2k (Aug 25, 2011)

Paypal had all the evidence in Black & White pictures and text but still favoured against me talk about a load of b*ll*cks


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## richpalm (Aug 25, 2011)

I really, really wish that a good U.S. seller will come along for these triple XML lights.


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## 2100 (Aug 26, 2011)

ljw2k said:


> Paypal had all the evidence in Black & White pictures and text but still favoured against me talk about a load of b*ll*cks


 
Nope, obviously pictures for such nature of claims are not admissible as evidence. 

They asked you to settle with the seller amicably. That is why i only stick to 100% fair sites like HKequipment and CNqualitygoods. I mean we all work towards a win-win situation, they might not refund your return postage but they can give you something free on your next purchase (and I do not mean some lousy $5 free gift). I am sure they appreciate return customers. However that works for fair sellers only and those who value their online reputation....that you'd have to figure out who and how.  


But a video would substantiate your claim much better, do capture all the detailed markings etc on the envelope including Registered Article number, sender and recipent, dates, etc.... and record down the opening/slicing up of envelope (make sure you capture a 360 deg view of the envelope. Something like a youtube unboxing video. 

Of course who'd do a sucky unboxing video every time a package arrives? That is why for high-dollar stuff, i only purchase from reputable sellers. 

Recently CNqualitygoods missed out my On The Road X5 light in my order (I ordered 2 flashlights). I submitted photo evidence which they could very well reject and then paypal would rule in their favour even if i opened a claim. Instead they immediately rushed out the X5 the same day via *DHL EXPRESS*, i had the X5 by next day afternoon. CNQG does not even have an Ebay presence, so no such thing as seller ratings etc.

And what the heck is a BMW....err i mean On The Road X5? It is a Jetbeam M1X clone that costs $49 only. LOL! Actually it is from the same OEM called Loongsun, by Long Cheng Tools Ltd in Shenzhen. LX-9011.


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## EZO (Aug 26, 2011)

This unfortunate horror story really seems worthy of posting to the Jeers forum so that other folks might learn from it.
I too recently got screwed by PayPal as well as eBay because their corporate policies and general attitude tends to favor and protect fraudsters over honest long time sellers.

*
*


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## ljw2k (Aug 26, 2011)

I have been in communication since the paypal decision and we have agreed if we both pay 1/2 the return postage fee's so it has cost me an extra $10 and they are now sending me a replacement flashlight.

Lets hope that it's not the ugly Bunnies brother or sister


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## 2100 (Aug 26, 2011)

$10 is ok i guess. It is indeed a regrettable experience but i guess it is still a win-win solution.


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## EZO (Aug 26, 2011)

2100 said:


> $10 is ok i guess. It is indeed a regrettable experience but i guess it is still a win-win solution.



2100, I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you. In my view this is *not* a win-win situation, ljw2k has essentially been screwed by Lighttake and PayPal and this long running situation has been an unpleasant hassle that is not actually over yet. Who knows, the way things have been going they could send him another rubber bunny or something worse! It should not cost him a farthing more to get what he originally ordered quite some time ago!


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## ljw2k (Aug 26, 2011)

I think 2100 was looking at it as i have not lost the whole £52 and yes i agree with EZO as it was not my fault it shouldnt be costing me more money but i did ask for the $42 refund but they wanted to send me to pay the $10 and send me the flashlight.

I would say it was a loose loose situation and lightake WON'T be getting any more of my hard earned cash that's for sure and paypal are not on my Christmas list at the moment neither.


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## 2100 (Aug 28, 2011)

EZO said:


> 2100, I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you. In my view this is *not* a win-win situation, ljw2k has essentially been screwed by Lighttake and PayPal and this long running situation has been an unpleasant hassle that is not actually over yet. Who knows, the way things have been going they could send him another rubber bunny or something worse! It should not cost him a farthing more to get what he originally ordered quite some time ago!




Ezo, unfortunately this is really how things are with Paypal and web stores in reality. It is really in the fine print with most webstores, i dare say 99.9%. (you do know about this right?)

Even with US stores they would require you to send the item back at your cost. It is a bonus if they offer to pay return shipping, or reimburse you with say a free gift which covers postage, that is a privilege but not a right. Seriously, if you think about it more in-depth, you may get why they do this. (put yourself in the seller's shoes) That is why i mentioned "video evidence"....even then they have the right to refuse. Indeed, it sounds sucky.

It is not that this is unavoidable, of course. Just stick to the reputable dealers known for providing excellent service and proven track record, and the prices that they ask. Ebay is pretty good as well as the major sellers try to maintain their ratings. Paypal only sides with the buyers only in the event of non-delivery and the seller is unable to provide evidence of mailing out (eg Post Office mailing advice through registered post/EMS). 

And do you know that there are quite a number of cases which the buyers would claim that they did not receive the item even though they DID receive the item, open a dispute and put up a claim and got their money back? Free items! I know 2 of my friends who are real cheapos doing this quite often. Ebay bad feedback for buyers? Just register a new account.  The idea is, not to get the seller provide a tracking number. 
Hence places like dealextreme automatically upgrades orders > $15 and send through registered mail. They can't just take the risk of sending a $200 order and lose a paypal dispute. Same goes for aliexpress stores, i have never encountered any store sending untracked air parcels....maybe the sellers are often a target for scams.

I have been doing business for quite a number of years, so seriously it works both ways. Of course ljw2k bro,* I am definitely not talking about your case pls don't get me wrong, but things in general and how things work*. Unfortunately with web stores that is how it is, how we really wish that all of us can visit a retails store and buy all the wide range of flashlights that we are able to get online and deal with a real person with real manufacturer as well as so-called store warranty, right? 

Most Ebay stores already would factored all these "additional" costs in, that is how they keep the business running. It is never fair and it is impossible to be 100%, only a best case "win-win", something like your car insurance premiums. Such is life....

If Lightake dares to send another Wii bunny, i am sure their bad name will be posted in all laser and flashlight forums. 

One thing to keep in mind, online = worldwide, and the stores we are dealing with more often than not are China stores. I love the China stuff and also hate them at the same time. Deep, isn't it? Laws and consumer norms are somewhat different. You can return items in the store and get your money back if you do not like it even, you can't do that in most cases even in my country, unless explicitly stated. It is not because of bad cust service or policies, it is just how biz are operated and cost of operating the biz, price sensitive consumers etc..... 

I have heard criticisms from foreign guests regarding how bad these store policies are. Well, again....that is how things work here.

Just sharing my experience bros....


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