# Vector POB w/Battery Meter



## Richie086 (Jan 2, 2009)

Hi gang,

I thought some might like to see the photo below of my latest upgrade to my POB.

When using SLA batteries, deep discharging is something to be avoided. My solution for my SLA driven POB was to install a voltage display so I know at a glance how far the battery has discharged. Naturally, the goal is not to allow the battery to fall below 10.8v-10.5v in spite of the fact this HID spotlight seems to continue to light below 6 volts. However, if you abuse your SLA battery and continuously discharge it below 10.5v, don't expect it to keep performing as new, even with a full charge. You'll notice run time will be less and less as that battery degrades or sulphates from over discharging it.

At this point, I had already replaced the tri-wing bezel screws with normal phillips head screws, and also relocated the On/Off switch to the rear of the spotlight, and replaced the stock 35w 6000k HID bulb with a 50w 4300k. Installing the volt meter is the forth of five upgrades I've now made to it. 

The volt meter is tied directly into the POB's On/Off switch. When the light is turned on, the volt meter activates illuminating the volts so the operator can view at a glance the current voltage remaining in the SLA battery. 

I was going to mount the meter on the rear of the circular battery access door, but felt this would be cumbersome, not only to view the remaining battery power, but would add additional wiring in the battery slot, which is already very tight. Instead, I mounted the meter on the side of the unit and spliced the (+) and (-) wires from the meter to the front of the spotlight just behind the HID bulb. In other words, I tapped into the batteries positive and negative cables that are actually behind the HID bulb near the internal fuse. The third wire from the volt meter was routed up to the "On" side of the switch.

This made for a very neat wiring installation and works perfectly. The voltage meter I used is the "Stinger Digital Blue Voltage Meter". These meters, while in use, display the "Stinger" logo at the top of the display, but I opened up the meter and put a piece of black tape over the name so only the voltage would display.

These are expensive meters at about $29.00, and about what the POB itself cost. But I had several of these meters on hand from a project that never materialized, so I thought I'd put them to good use. The meter is also adjustable to fine tune the voltage being displayed via a "pot" switch. All in all, I"m very pleased with all the upgrades. Next and final upgrade will be a higher capacity and quality SLA battery will be installed.


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## BigusLightus (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm looking forward to reading which battery upgrade you select. Cool mods!


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## SafetyBob (Jan 3, 2009)

I am contemplating this too. Where did you purchase that meter? Any prefered vendors you have dealt with? 

I love that blue led meter!!

Bob E.


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## Parker VH (Jan 3, 2009)

Richie,
Just curious as to why you chose the 50W 4300K bulb instead of the 35W 4300K upgrade? Is it actually brighter or ?
Thanks.


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## Richie086 (Jan 3, 2009)

SafetyBob said:


> I am contemplating this too. Where did you purchase that meter? Any prefered vendors you have dealt with?
> 
> I love that blue led meter!!
> 
> Bob E.


 

Hi there Bob,

I don't know if I'm allowed to post a link to an Ebay auction, so I better just give you the sellers Ebay screen name. If you do a seller seach for bag-boy. He sells them with the color display in blue or red. They are Stinger Digital Blue Voltage Gauge Meter SVMB.


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## Richie086 (Jan 3, 2009)

Parker VH said:


> Richie,
> Just curious as to why you chose the 50W 4300K bulb instead of the 35W 4300K upgrade? Is it actually brighter or ?
> Thanks.


 

Hi ParkerVH,

I have the 35w 4300k bulbs with the metal base purchased from the Ebay seller others have used on this forum. I also purchased some 50w 4300k bulbs from someone else and a different brand. 

As far as brightness, they were exactly the same. However, the 50w 4300k had a better, rounder, more defined hot spot than the 35w bulb which seemed a bit mis-shapen. Also, the 50 watt bulb burns at the same wattage the 35w bulb burns at, which is about 43 watts, the maximum output of the stock POB ballast.


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## Richie086 (Jan 3, 2009)

Hi folks,

The photo below shows the final upgrade I've made to my Power On Board spotlight. I purchased the finest AGM battery from one of the best company's and replaced the stock 12v 7Ah SLA (84 watt hour) with a 12v 9Ah (108 w/h) battery. 

This battery, although exact in dimension to the stock, is over one pound heavier due to the additional thickness of the lead plates, which is also what enables it to handle High Rate Discharge loads and giving the battery a very low internal resistance of 15 ohms. The original battery should be about 25 ohms, which means the original battery was designed more for a UPS for your computer rather than for a high rate discharge electronic. I've tested my new battery against the stock battery and run times where quite a bit better.

*Stock 12v 7Ah - run time to 10.5v - 85 Minutes*
*B&B HR9, 9Ah - run time to 10.5v - 105 minutes (20 minutes longer run time)*

The battery cost me $34.95 plus $14.05 shipping totaling, $49.00 delivered. You will not get longer running time on any other 12v SLA battery for this spotlight that will fit inside it. Only modifying it to run on Li-ion may get you more runtime and a lighter weight spotlight. You'd have to decide for yourself if spending $49.00 is worth the extra 20 minutes of run time for an HID spotlight purchased for $28.99 - $39.99. I'm a "Flashaholic," so it was an easy decision for me. Besides, this POB HID spotlight is worth far more than what we all have paid for them.


The battery comes stock with the wider F2 (1/4" terminals). If ordered with F2 terminals, you'll have to cut off the F1 terminals from the positive and negative battery leads on the POB and replace them with F2's. You can order the battery with F1 terminals as an option. The F2 terminal version requires you to also press the battery terminal ends down a bit to clear the top of the battery slot. Aside from that, which takes one second to do, this battery fits as perfect as the stock battery.









Battery on the left is the stock 12v 7ah SLA. My new B&B powerhouse is ready
for final installation. This simple upgrade yields a full 20 minutes longer run time
compared to the original battery, which was 85 minutes and now 105 minutes.


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## SafetyBob (Jan 4, 2009)

Richie, thanks alot for the information......all the information gathered here. 

I had not pulled the battery out of mine to see what was in there and how much better of a battery I could get. Now I don't have to since you already did it. Thank you!!

Also, about two minutes after I posted my "where do I get the meter question" I did a quick ebay search and came up with exactly the same guy you did. 

Let's talk the bulb. Where/who did you get the 50Watt bulb from. Yes, you can name names here. Most everyone here knows of the ebay guys, but you make it sound like you have a source for the 50 watt 4300K bulbs that nobody has found yet......all of us would like to know. 

Pretty much all of us love these huge lights.....we just cant seem to get enough of them. 

Bob E.


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## csshih (Jan 4, 2009)

a.w.e.s.o.m.e. :twothumbs


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## Richie086 (Jan 4, 2009)

SafetyBob said:


> Richie, thanks alot for the information......all the information gathered here.
> 
> Let's talk the bulb. Where/who did you get the 50Watt bulb from. Yes, you can name names here. Most everyone here knows of the ebay guys, but you make it sound like you have a source for the 50 watt 4300K bulbs that nobody has found yet......all of us would like to know. Bob E.


 

Hey Bob,

Thank you for the kind words and you're very welcome. My source of choice to purchase the H7-4300k bulbs for the POB spotlight is a very good Ebay seller from Hong Kong that ships to the USA very quickly. I'm sure other CPF members have used them and I made no discovery except I'm happy with their service.

Here is one such auction from him and the exact 50w 4300k bulbs I am actually using in my HID. Just make sure, as with any seller you purchase from, confirm in writing to them exactly what bulb and temperature you require. 


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/4300...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

These have the plastic base as the stock original POB bulbs do. Frankly, I don't see that the metal base bulbs make any difference in performance or anything else. So I don't think it's necessary to purchase the more expensive bulbs the other Ebay seller CPF members have been using by the name of, YourHID. 

YourHID actually sells them as 50w 4300k, but they still arrive as 35w 4300k. Lastly, I also don't think it makes a difference in lumen output whether using a 35w or 50w 4300k bulb. They seem the same to me. Please let me know if you need any other information.


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## richardcpf (Jan 4, 2009)

DX says this is for LiPo batteries, but I think you can mod this into a normal voltage meter... the only con is the size, a little big too big to fit it in a spotlight.

3-Digit LED Battery Voltage Real-Time Indicator 





I wonder if i can use this on my car...


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## Richie086 (Jan 6, 2009)

richardcpf said:


> DX says this is for LiPo batteries, but I think you can mod this into a normal voltage meter... the only con is the size, a little big too big to fit it in a spotlight. I wonder if i can use this on my car...


 

Hi Richard,

In the video it clearly shows that meter registering 40 volts, but also shows it registering 4 volts too. I don't see why it can't be used in a 12v application. 

What I don't like about the Stinger volt meter I'm using and the DX meter you're considering is they only read to the tenth and not to the hundredth of a volt. I'm just nit picking, but I'm still overall happy with mine. Also, if you purchased the DX meter, were you going to install it in some type of project box or leave it as it is?


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## Richie086 (Jan 6, 2009)

I really wish I could get one or two Li-ion battery packs like this for my Power On Board spotlight. It would be just way to expensive, not to mention having to purchase a charger for them as well. 

I bet with two of these packs inside my spotlight, you'd barely feel the light in your hand having shed a 6 lb. SLA battery. 

http://www.batteryjunction.com/tenergy-14-8v-4400.html


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## Richie086 (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: Power On Board POB's w/Volt Meters*

Thanks to Norm's help with a wiring issue I had trying to get my upgraded switches to illuminate properly, I now have both of my POB's completed with the On/Off switches of my choice. I went with a *Blue* readout volt meter and switch for the first one and a *Red* readout volt meter and switch for the second one. This makes it easier to keep track of which one is which. Only the blue one has the upgraded B&B high capacity battery, but both do have the upgraded 50w H7-4300k lamp now. The Red one won't be getting the upgraded battery for a while.


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## gsxrac (Jan 14, 2009)

are these replacement bulbs a direct replacement or do you need to modify the socket/mount?


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 14, 2009)

Love those meters, Richie! :thumbsup:


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## Richie086 (Jan 14, 2009)

ricehaterboi said:


> are these replacement bulbs a direct replacement or do you need to modify the socket/mount?


 
Hi there Ricehaterboi,

They are a direct replacement and take seconds to make the switch once you remove the tri-wing bezel screws or tork screws, whichever you have.






LuxLuthor said:


> Love those meters, Richie! :thumbsup:


 
Thank you Lux, I'm really loving these mods, even though almost any of them cost more than that spotlight itself. Perhaps this makes me an official Flashaholic


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## philip2001 (Jun 14, 2009)

Hi,

I saw your modifications to the POB and decided to do some modifications myself.

I have also replaced the stock bulb with a 4300K 35W HID bulb and replaced the screws with normal philips head screws . I ordered the bulb from ebay and specifically asked for the composite base type but received a metal base bulb. I spent some time tweaking the bulb until I was happy with the beam.

I have also added a voltmeter to the back of the POB with a switch. It can be switched on or off at any time.

I have also added a charging jack that is directly connected to the battery. I am busy building a NI-MH battery pack for the POB.
Currently the POB weights 3.6Kg, the ni-mh battery pack should bring the total weight down to about 2.5Kg while at the same time doubling the POB's runtime. (It will be a 12V 10.4AH battery pack when it is finished)
The standard SLA battery gives only about 4.5AH due to the high current drain of the POB.

Picture of the voltmeter and switch:






Picture of the charging connector:






Picture of the beam after replacing the standard bulb with a 4300K 35w metal base bulb:






Another picture to show the beam pattern. This is the best that I could get it after lots of tweaking. The beam is very tight with a small hotspot right in the middle. It looks almost looks like a star. I tried to get it to be less pronounced but couldn't really get it much better. 
It is not a perfectly uniform throw but it works fine.


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## Mugrunty (Jun 14, 2009)

Sweetness! Nice Job!

I was thinking about doing something like this. I plan on making/programing a smart fuel gauge for lead acid batteries. I already made a formula for calculating SOC based on open circuit voltage. It's a combination of data from BB battery, my own personal experiences, and some pdf file that I forgot the name. The equation was on my graphing calculator so I could type in a voltage and it tells you the SOC. I also made an equation for runtime based on current draw. As you said, the efficiency of SLA batteries drops sharply with increased load. The formula is also on my graphing calculator, so I cannot share it here yet. Its at work!! I used data from BB batteries datasheets, and made a polynomial graph using excel. I wanted to put all this data into a microcontroller and make a super accurate runtime/SOC% awesomely cool display. This way you know how long the battery would last under any condition.

I found some open circuit voltage data on my computer. If you used your meter with xx.x accuracy, here are the values (rounded):

13.0 - 100%
12.9 - 92%
12.8 - 84%
12.7 - 76%
12.6 - 68% (do not store when below this voltage, sulfation starts)
12.5 - 59%
12.4 - 50%
12.3 - 43%
12.2 - 36%
12.1 - 29%
12.0 - 23%
11.9 - 17.5%
11.8 - 12%
11.7 - 8%
11.6 - 3%
11.5 - 0%


I believe this data to be fairly accurate. It seems to work well but I haven't tested it out thoroughly or anything. Obviously this test needs to be done after an hour or so of rest to be at its greatest accuracy. I'll make a new thread in the battery section if I ever get this thing finished!


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## BVH (Jun 14, 2009)

Mug.....here's a site that I've used to come up with SOC/% figures. You might want to see how it fits with the info you've gathered.

Scroll down the page a bit to the colorful chart.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm


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## Mugrunty (Jun 14, 2009)

Thanks BVH! I've seen this chart before. That chart relates more to the deep cycle (flooded) lead acid batteries rather than the Sealed (AGM) batteries that our POB lights use. The open circuit voltage of a car/deep cycle battery is somewhat lower than a SLA type battery. You'll notice that after a charge the voltage on your POB's battery will be around 12.9v if its a good battery. Even if you check the light days later, it will still be around 12.9. You could even turn on the light for a minute or two...then let it rest for a 1/2 hour and check it again. I bet it will still be 12.8 or 12.9.

On the other hand, if you go check your car batteries voltage...you'll find that it is around 12.4-12.6.

This is why I had to find different values for SLA type batteries.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm

This site also has a similar chart, but it also is refering to the flooded type.

I'll have to find the pdf I was using to come up with figures for the SLA type. I just charged one of my POB batteries last night with a hobby charger that uses the proper CC/CV technique, and it still reads 13.01V.


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## Mugrunty (Jun 14, 2009)

FOUND IT!!! I just took a screenshot of it for now. I used this along with a few other sources, then modified them slightly to account to what I thought was more correct. I have seen some bigger SLA batteries stay as high as 13.10v for days on end. This is why I pushed the limit up a little.


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## Richie086 (Jun 14, 2009)

philip2001 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I saw your modifications to the POB and decided to do some modifications myself.


 

Hi there Philip,

The mods look awesome! I also love how you recessed the voltage meter. You performed a super clean install. 

Please post about the Ni-MH batteries when you get them complete and the price. I wouldn't mind shedding a bit of weight from mine as well adding even more runtime.


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## philip2001 (Jun 15, 2009)

Thanks,

I will post as soon as I have finished the Ni-MH battery pack and tested it.

My goal is to be able to use the POB with either the SLA battery or the Ni-MH battery pack. (The Ni-MH pack should weight around 1.3Kg - 1.4Kg when finished compared to the SLA battery that weights around 2.3Kg)

The only difference will be when charging. For the Ni-MH battery pack I will use the charging jack that is connected directly to the battery with my IMAX-B5 charger.


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## Kremer (Jun 15, 2009)

I have not yet installed one of these on my POB, but I do use a few of them around the house, one is also hardwired into the kids powerwheels. They work great for at-a-glance SoC estimation. and are quite small and inexpensive.

http://www.hobbico.com/fieldequip/hcap0331.html


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## philip2001 (Aug 19, 2009)

I have finally finished my NiMH battery packs for the POB.
The goal was to reduce the weight of the POB while hopefully getting a longer runtime.

Weight results:
Original SLA battery: 2.4Kg, runtime about 70-80 minutes
Battery 1 (white): 998g, runtime 50 minutes
Battery 2 (black): 1.1Kg, runtime 90 minutes.

The lower weight makes it much easier to carry the light around.

I decided to build the first pack using 40 x 2700mah NiMH AA penlights (4 x 10 in parallel), but it turned out that the penlights that I used only had an effective capacity of about 900mah when drawing about 1A. (The light draws around 3.7A @ 12V)

This first pack weighed 998g compared to the SLA battery that weighed about 2.4Kg. So this is roughly a 1.4Kg weight difference.
This battery pack has a runtime of 50 minutes. (The white pack in the picture).

I then decided to build a better battery and decided to use 40 x 2100mah Hybrid NiMH batteries. These batteries retain 70% of their charge after 1 year on the shelf.

This pack was quite a bit more expensive to build. I tested the pack and it has a runtime of 1 hour and 30 minutes. This pack weighs 1.1Kg, so it is still a saving of around 1.3Kg.

I am very happy with the weight reduction and the two batteries works very well despite the capacity being a bit lower than I hoped for.


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## Richie086 (Aug 19, 2009)

philip2001 said:


> I have finally finished my NiMH battery packs for the POB.
> 
> 
> I then decided to build a better battery and decided to use 40 x 2100mah Hybrid NiMH batteries. These batteries retain 70% of their charge after 1 year on the shelf.
> ...


 

Hi Philip,

How much are the parts or batteries for this mod? Looks great and it still has good runtime. Any weight reduction is a good thing with the POB. Nice job :thumbsup:


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## philip2001 (Aug 19, 2009)

I used 40 AA (penlight) size NiMH batteries for each battery. So the price will basically depend on the brand of batteries that you use. I then also used 4 battery holders. For the first battery I bought the AA bateries over ebay, they were listed as 2700mah and I even spoke to the seller to make sure they will work for a high drain application, but it turned out that the capacity was much less. So I would recommend that you go for something that is a well know brand. For my second battery I used the Uniross Hybrio batteries, they are very similar to the eneloop batteries. They can stay on the shelf for a year and apparently still contain at least 70% of their charge unlike normal NiMH batteries that will be flat after a year on the shelf. (This battery pack cost about $150+)


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