# Can anyone make flashlight tubes to hold 3 wide 18650 ?



## LuxLuthor (Feb 7, 2008)

Since seeing the Emoli (as well as AW's great protected cells) in 18650 size, the only light body that you can use these on a practical basis is FiveMega's rare Elephant.

I think having a form factor tube that would hold 3 wide would be easier to hold onto, and if done in modular lengths like Leef's 28650 for larger Emoli/A123, or FiveMega's 60 & 120mm addon Elephant sections....would give a lot of possibilities in voltage setups...with battery combos of 3s1p, 3s2p, to 6s combinations using dummy plugs, etc.

I like the idea of having a universal threading to fit Maglite heads, which inlcudes all of the 3" reflectors also.


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## sskyy (Feb 7, 2008)

H22A's Mammoth seem to fit.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm just talking about the body like Leef's. I don't want all the head stuff, and I'm looking for a currently available option.


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## skalomax (Feb 7, 2008)

I would love to see this!

LEEEEEF!


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## mr.squatch (Feb 7, 2008)

I'd like to see somebody do a 3 sided body. Like a D-size mag body that's softly pressed on three sides so its still round cornered, just fits three 18650s. Anybody care to do the math to see if they'll go if they had three flat sides? I can pull that off at work, melting in the neck and tailcap would be much harder but I'm sure I could manage. That'd be an awesome machine

g


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## starburst (Feb 8, 2008)

My dream light 6 Emoli cell's with softstart setting under a 5761


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## Mike Painter (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't know about three wide but I really like the form factor of my Underwater kinetics SL4

Two parallel tubes could hold say four 18650. An extension could allow six or more and still be fairly short.
"Tail" end caps could configure the tube in either a serial or parallel setup.
The head end could be just a short tube where the wires came out and went into the head. 
Custom heads could be used but the tail end of a maglight fits neatly into the bottom of the head. Drill a hole in the tail and fix the tube into it.


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## adamlau (Feb 8, 2008)

This is the golden ticket, the nail hit directly on the head, a panacea to the power and voltage ailments which afflict all flashaholics. For where there is a suitable power source, there will be light. No more custom cut downs and fittings of packs. A real solution which has surprisingly not yet been offered as a generally available production piece.


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## DM51 (Feb 8, 2008)

Fivemega would be the obvious person to make this. He has a thread called What is missing? which is for suggestions, although I don't know how often he monitors it. Or maybe you could suggest it to him direct.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 8, 2008)

I did...and didn't get any warm feelings from him.


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## SafetyBob (Feb 8, 2008)

Lux, if we want to do something like this and FM isn't really interested, then we may need to find someone else with access to CNC stuff to maybe make a small run. 

I have the big emolis at 26mm (the C sized ones) and that would be a thick light with 3 or 6 emolis, but what a light it would be. I think you are onto something. A basic end that will take all know [email protected] hardware and the other would accept a tailcap or more extension modules to just keep the light growing and growing. 

Here goes the bank account again.....

Bob E.


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## Ctechlite (Feb 8, 2008)

There's a CPF'er who has recently acquired a CNC machine, I'm thinking it's Endeavor, but am not 100% sure.


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## DM51 (Feb 9, 2008)

Or there's J!m, a recently-joined member, who has made an amazing offer to do custom work...


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## rizky_p (Feb 9, 2008)

COOL! i want one too! especially one that fits Mag Heads...


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## Bogus1 (Feb 9, 2008)

At TnC we were going to follow up on our C-Flex Series with a D-Flex line including extenders, large heads, etc. However after seeing what can happen to a proprietary line of batteries (re: AW C Li-ions) we've decided against that and suspended our plans to bring additional options to the market for hot wires for the C-Flex at this time. Therefore making something along the lines of what you are discussing in this thread is consistent with our plans. This makes sense to us for a number of reasons. However we would want some input before we engaged.

Like the C-Flex we could build a switch into the tail (both twist switch or click switch) in a one piece tube/tail, as well as a Mag adapted neck that could hold switches such as AW's switch. This way the light could be modular, you could cut out the slow drain of regulated switches up stream, or you could forego the side switch altogether if desired with a different adaptor for shorter overall length and perhaps less resistance. We plan on having adaptors as well for different heads on these tubes other than Mags so there should be plenty of options for those interested. 

We were considering milling the tube so that it would have anti roll characteristics as well as a better grip; however this could add significantly to the cost. 

I hope I haven't taken this thread OT, but it seems that's what the thread is calling for.


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## mr.squatch (Feb 9, 2008)

I did some rough math just now, inside circumference of a magd is 105mm, outside circ of three 18650's stacked in a triangle is 113mm  I'd give my spare nut for a rounded triangle mag with six 18650s in it. 

g


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## Bogus1 (Feb 9, 2008)

I was thinking of a rounded triangle, perhaps with dimples between the cells for a unique look and better grip. A rail between the cells in the triangle was also something I came up with...


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## protein_man (Feb 10, 2008)

Bogus I was thinking the same thing, a body like the Stanley 369 work light but with 18650s instead of aa's.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006OEO3O/?tag=cpf0b6-20


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 10, 2008)

Bogus1 and anyone else, I think anything is fair game. I just picked up Leef's modular system from Lighthound that holds Emoli/A123 larger cells, and interfaces with mag heads.

I think the idea of making tri-18650 is nice because of the readily available Emoli and A123 safe chemistry cells. All the major tool companies are switching over to that 18650 and the larger 26700/27800, so they are here to stay.

That Stanley light looks nice, and if it threads to a Mag head, I think that's the most important part. Personally, I prefer switches on the side ONLY because you can have one hand operation. It's pretty hard to operate Mac's tailswitch with one hand. Tail switches/twisties work in smaller LED lights because you can work it with one hand. If sides like the Stanley example add a lot to the cost, not sure if that is the way to start.

SafetyBob, only problem with trying to make a Bi-/Tri- width of the Emoli cells is it almost has to be a lantern design with small grip handle and cells below...more suited to a spotlight than what I'm looking for here.

Basically, the FM Elephant gives the most potential width using 7 AA's or 4 18650 wide, but I think a size smaller that would fit the tri-18650 cells with modular extensions is going to be easier to hold, while getting some nice battery combos.

Thanks for all the ideas and interest.


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## adamlau (Feb 10, 2008)

The Leef 28650 is a step in the right direction, but only accomodates a single cell per section. And short of a custom setup, support for Mag bi-pins is not yet on the horizon.


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## dan_ (Feb 10, 2008)

I really do want a host fitting 3x18650 parallel too - 
many people in FM´s "what´s missing?"-Thread gave their "+1" to more Elephant-Bodies. I guess FM has recognized it but didn´t say anything whether he will make them in the near future or not. 
I emailed Leef about it and he didn´t answer. 

I don´t quite understand why no one is building them, many people would buy them (at an affordable price, let´s roughly say 150$ for a coated tube with tailcap fitting a MagD head - don´t need it gold plated :duh2.

Oh well, gotta keep on waiting. :shrug:


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## adamlau (Feb 10, 2008)

*Bogus1*: I favor the idea of a twist-on tailcap as it would provide another engagement option while under duress. Absolutely mill the tube for anti-roll and improved grip. MagD threading should take precedence over those of others. SureFire and Lumens Factory KT lamps max out with three 3.8V cells and consideration should be given to the inclusion of an M-threaded 3P1P body. For a tri-cell body, I gather popular Moli (rested) pack options would include:

64623 @ 16V = 15.2 w/ 4S (2S + 2S) bi/quad-bore for 18mm (4 cells)
64655 @ 24V = 22.8V w/ 6S (3S + 3S) bi/quad-bore for 18mm (6 cells) 
64663 @ 36V = 34.2V w/ 9S (3S + 3S + 3S) bi/quad-bore for 18mm (9 cells)
64665 @ 36V = 34.2V w/ 9S (3S + 3S + 3S) bi/quad-bore for 18mm (9 cells)

The Moli cells in question would be the IMR18650E (18.24 x 65 mm), IMR26650D (26.4 x 65 mm) and IMR26700A (26.4 x 70 mm), with preference to the IMR18650E due to its advantage of being canned in a smaller diameter. As Moli themselves state on their product data sheets:

Custom design the MOLICEL® lithium-ion rechargeable battery into your mobile device

A modular, TnC tri-IMR18650E (preferred) and tri-IMR26700A body would make a fantastic addition to the arsenal of flashaholics. Make it happen!


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## SafetyBob (Feb 10, 2008)

Lux, I looked at the Leef system, and I recall how neat someone here or on the incan forum put one together with like 4 or so batteries together. Looked really nice. 

I don't mind a tail cap swith as a second safety switch, but as others have said, I like the regular [email protected] pushbutton switch location for convienence....but it could be one of the toggle type switches that some of the incan guys have done. We need a solution here and I realize that incan and led uses will be different. Guess a chunk of plastic with a wire running through the middle going to our own switch would work, but is there something better? 

So it looks like two real camps out here. One with the 18mm diameter A123s and Emolis and the 26mm Emoli camp. The small emolis and 123s would be perfect to create what we have done with AA's with both LED and incan, just smaller packages or same package, good runtime.

I assume unless you go big and long, the 26mm emolis will be 3,4,5 maybe more LED lights or small single LED lights with amazing duration (which may not be bad either vs. the WOW lights). 

Perhaps we need to get out our pen and paper and sketch some stuff up for TnC to look at for ideas. I looked at their stuff. Very, very nice...ok, amazing finish from what I can tell. I am not so sure in the beginning if we need or want our stuff quite that fancy. Mainly because here in the beginning, we need our stuff reasonable, particularly price wise so we can get people to manufacture in mass and people to buy into these battery types.

Bob E.


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## LED Zeppelin (Feb 10, 2008)

This is exactly what we've been waiting for, even if we didn't know it.

I'd like to see the tri-18650 configuration Eric mentioned, and with the modularity and adaptability hinted at it could be a solution for everyone who needs a high current, high power host from hotwires to multi-LEDs.

I've been exploring extreme multi-LED mods lately, and at least half the battle is powering them. The mod needs to be planned from the tube up, which doesn't allow much flexibility and severely limits the build. The direction I am taking is 26700 Emolis in series, in custom cut Mag D tubes. But this thread is opening up some exciting alternatives.

Leef's modular system is okay, but the C size Li-ions can't deliver the current I need. More than half the ones I had tested couldn't cope with even 4-5 amps.

A system like the C-flex with the tri-tube would be perfect. The ability to use a standard Mag head, or compatible, and either the tail or side switch would be a dream.

And though the C-flex parts looked a bit odd IMO, this new shape is making me drool thinking of the possibilities with TnC's machining abilities. 

Other than the obvious machining challenge, the details of the cell holding will need some thought. The tube could be pre-wired for series or parallel, with permanent contacts, but for flexibility there would need to be some sort of adapter plate that made contact between the cells and switch/head. And though this could be eliminated with a fused pack, I'd rather see the ability to use loose cells too.

I'll be anxiously waiting these parts. Please, please bring 'em on!


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## Bogus1 (Feb 10, 2008)

I don't think the interests of LEDs and hotwires are mutually exclusive. I was planning on providing a side switch option (or two) for those who want it and a tail switch for those who want that, or for those who want both. I'll lay out my proposal on this in more detail later along with additional features.

I think a 3x 26700 would be huge and need a handle. I don't know how much of a market there is for that. However 3x 18650 makes sense to me. I don't see the point in 4 lengths of 26700 cells. If I'm going to go that large I'd rather have the capacity to match the length with 12x 18650 cells.

Anyhow I need an interest thread in TnC forums to flesh out the build and see what the demand is. I'll try to get around to posting that soon if someone doesn't before me. Perhaps if there is interest for a stripped down and deluxe version, and perhaps accessories, then that would be a good thing to know. It may be possible to do two builds just by pulling one build off the machines earlier with fewer machine steps than a deluxe version.

It looks like battery packs would be good in this application and I'll look into making a 3x 18650 holder since they don't seem to be readily available. Although we’ll consider forming the tube interior so it could hold the cells loosely and perhaps just have wired plates on the head and tube ends of the battery tubes as Dennis mentioned. There are a few other features I'd like to incorporate that I will reveal later as well.

To recap this would be a 3x 18650 (and other applications) tube with a one piece tube/tail, and or a side switch. The batteries would load from the neck of the tube rather than the rear and there would be a neck or adaptor(s) designed to fit various heads. There would be additional 3x 18650 extenders built so any configuration could be used. If we move ahead with this (based on interest) we would label this project TnC D-Flex Series.


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## paulr (Feb 10, 2008)

Maybe the A123 is making this parallel 18650 stuff less interesting.

Anyway, the Tigerlight is the right diameter for 3x18650, I think. Mod host?


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## LED Zeppelin (Feb 11, 2008)

Eric, I agree with you on the 3 X 26700, too big to hold. And 18650s are available in may chemistries and relatively common, many of use have a bank already.

I've taken the liberty of starting this thread in the TnC forum to focus on D-Flex interest and ideas.


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## adamlau (Feb 11, 2008)

Agreed that 3x26700 would be a bit unwieldly for average hands. I am already in love with the idea of a modular, 3x18650 TnC D-Flex Series body . Best to integrate a soft start (dual mode low to high), 10A switch for higher voltage incan lamps as well.


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## SilverFox (Feb 11, 2008)

Hello LuxLuthor,

The Wolf Eyes M300 uses 3 18650 cells. It's a little fat, but still comfortable to use. The battery carrier connects the cells in series. The only issue I have had is that the batteries can get out of balance during charging.

Of course the near famous "LuxLuthor balancing/charging leads" take care of that.  

Tom


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 11, 2008)

I'm thrilled with the feedback in this thread. TBH, I have never been in the TnC subforum before, and it was already seeming like I spent too much time at CPF! LOL!

I agree the 18650 is the better form factor for flashlights. The 26mm diameter cells are already being used either as a single stack, or hand held Lanterns. 

I didn't know about the Wolf Eyes, thanks Tom, but for me just having 3 x 18650 is not enough. I really want something like Bogus1 is talking about with extender tubes, switch options, and threaded to Mag heads...mainly because of the reflector supply that we depend on.


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## zambai (Feb 11, 2008)

From my calculations, the ID of that body (3 18650s) will need to be a minimum of 1.55". ...with 1/8" wall thickness, you're looking at a 1.8" OD.  That's beefy! I might be interested in machining something like that myself.

To not spend all day boring out a solid aluminum rod, I'd probably start with a pipe that's almost the right size (I found some that is 1.9" OD X 0.2" WALL X 1.5" ID for fairly cheap online) and bore it slightly to the right size. Then, I'd make a [email protected] head adapter piece from a piece of solid aluminum rod. The two would thread together and the [email protected] head would thread onto the adapter. The massive tailcap would be a no-brainer.

I have a couple newbie questioins, though, Lux. Would you parallel the 18650s to get 3.7V and high current, or would you put them in series? Or some combination of the two? An 18650 should push about 4Amps if discharging at 2C, right? Finally, what bulb would _you_ put in this?


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 11, 2008)

zambai said:


> From my calculations, the ID of that body (3 18650s) will need to be a minimum of 1.55". ...with 1/8" wall thickness, you're looking at a 1.8" OD.  That's beefy! I might be interested in machining something like that myself.
> 
> To not spend all day boring out a solid aluminum rod, I'd probably start with a pipe that's almost the right size (I found some that is 1.9" OD X 0.2" WALL X 1.5" ID for fairly cheap online) and bore it slightly to the right size. Then, I'd make a [email protected] head adapter piece from a piece of solid aluminum rod. The two would thread together and the [email protected] head would thread onto the adapter. The massive tailcap would be a no-brainer.
> 
> I have a couple newbie questioins, though, Lux. Would you parallel the 18650s to get 3.7V and high current, or would you put them in series? Or some combination of the two? An 18650 should push about 4Amps if discharging at 2C, right? Finally, what bulb would _you_ put in this?



I think this should have adaptability to adding lengths, so you could have 2, 3, 4, 5 lengths of tri-wide 18650 cells. You could have any combination of "s" and "p" from 3s1p to 5s3p (or any combination in between by using dummy spacers and/or contact point wiring).


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## dan_ (Feb 12, 2008)

@SilverFox

are you sure that the Wolf Eyes M300 uses 3 18650 cells? On the wolf-eyes website it says "3 x LRB-168A Li-ion battery". Don´t know if I missed something out on the battery specs... did I:thinking:

If so please let me know, thanks!

_edit: seems as if it means the same. Everyone else who´s not familiar with the battery types look here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177460&highlight=168A_



SilverFox said:


> Hello LuxLuthor,
> 
> The Wolf Eyes M300 uses 3 18650 cells. It's a little fat, but still comfortable to use. The battery carrier connects the cells in series. The only issue I have had is that the batteries can get out of balance during charging.
> 
> ...


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## cnjl3 (Feb 15, 2008)

For anyone that is interested H22A is talking about the possibility of a 4 X 18650 or 8 X 18650 MAG compatible body. Head assembly is optional so you can just order the body or total package. But, he needs 25 pieces minimum to make it happen. No battery adapter option. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/189630


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 17, 2008)

Thanks! I didn't even think to click on a topic called "Mammoth" despite its Pachydermial similarity to an Elephant!


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