# VB-16 from DealExtreme.



## Flymo (Jul 27, 2007)

Does somebody allready have experience with the VB-16 from DX?
My question is:

- Does it have a real HA3 finish ?
- Does it have SSC P4 U bin ?
- Is the workmanship of this model good ?
- Is it a good light for the money ?
- Does it look like the original......?
- Does it meets your expectations ?


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## dano (Jul 27, 2007)

***REOPENED*** After review...


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## Flymo (Jul 27, 2007)

*Experience with the non original VB-16 ?*

Does somebody allready have experience with the non original VB-16 light?


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## fleegs (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: Experience with the non original VB-16 ?*

What is the non original VB-16?


rob


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## Flymo (Jul 28, 2007)

The one that is not sold by Waion.


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## bguy (Jul 28, 2007)

I'm also waiting to get a comment from someone that has actually gotten one from DX. I keep checking for comments on DX and here and haven't seen anything yet. 

I dont really need to spend $60 on a light, and even $35 is a bit. But I think I'd like the simple on/off UI, and I'm good with no strobe.


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## glockboy (Jul 28, 2007)




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## half-watt (Jul 28, 2007)

bguy said:


> I'm also waiting to get a comment from someone that has actually gotten one from DX. I keep checking for comments on DX and here and haven't seen anything yet.
> 
> I dont really need to spend $60 on a light, and even $35 is a bit. But I think I'd like the simple on/off UI, and I'm good with no strobe.





DELETED ORIGINAL POST after being reminded that the comments were inappropriate for this Thread.


My apologies to DX and the Forum participants who may have read them. I can see now after Empath's comments below that my comments were out of place (the info they contained would perhaps??? have been better in another Thread, i think???), and also that not everyone would have found them humorous.

I will need to remember to only reply to the topic started by the OP and not to reply to others' posts which are not on the same point as the OP's. The goal is to keep the Thread on the OP's intended thought. I think that, in part, this is what Empath was trying to communicate to me. Is that correct? We should only reply on the specific subjects introduced by the OP? Is that how it works here on CPF?


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## Flymo (Jul 28, 2007)

I never had any problems with DX and they said, that the VB-16 is in stock...and that it is not a SSC P4 USW01 emitter.
But what? I don't know. Anybody have a clue?


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## Empath (Jul 28, 2007)

> - Does it have a real HA3 finish ?
> - Does it have SSC P4 U bin ?
> - Is the workmanship of this model good ?
> - Is it a good light for the money ?
> ...



The above questions are what this thread is about. It's not a thread about DX, whether you like them or not, or whether you think they ship properly and timely, or whether you feel their filling of orders pleases you. It's a thread about a product, not a supplier.

Half-Watt, your post is a jeer mixed into a thread not related to a discussion about a vendor. That's just opportunistic posting, off-topic, and won't be tolerated. Corrective action is expected.

_Edited to add a thank-you to Half-Watt for corrections and cooperation_


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## half-watt (Jul 28, 2007)

Empath said:


> Half-Watt, your post is a jeer mixed into a thread not related to a discussion about a vendor. That's just opportunistic posting, off-topic, and won't be tolerated. Corrective action is expected.




Understood. I'll get right on it. Many thanks for the correction.


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## FlashCrazy (Jul 29, 2007)

Flymo said:


> - Does it have a real HA3 finish ?
> - Does it have SSC P4 U bin ?
> - Is the workmanship of this model good ?
> - Is it a good light for the money ?
> ...


 
I just received mine. I ordered it for the $25 price, I can't remember if it was advertised at that time to be Type II anodize or hard anodize. I see that the $35 one for sale now is listed as hard anodize, and a Type II version can be ordered seperately. Ok here goes:

- Finish on mine is type II, but is very nice. Seems pretty tough for type II.

- Not sure on the bin, as there's no way to tell. Mine seems as bright as a U bin. The light drives the emitter around 700 mA on high, and this one seems as bright as other P4 U bins I have that are driven at that level...which is bright. Flawless beam, perfect for indoor/close range use, but also has very good throw. Appears to be a SWO tint, which is classified as pure white. 

- Workmanship is excellent

- EXCELLENT light for the money

- It is original, just not the current Version 4 that Waion sells. Waion talks about this particular version somewhere else on the forum. 

It only has the two buttons as shown, press the top one to increase brightness, press the lower one to decrease brightness. Low is lower than any of the Fenix lights, but not as low as a LiteFlux LF2 or HDS. Pretty low, though. It doesn't have the strobe or SOS modes. 

The tail switch is a forward (tactical style) clickly that is SUPER smooth and almost silent. The amount of force required for momentary is almost too little. I'd be afraid that just the pressure from being in a holster would activate it. The tailcap can be locked out by unscrewing only 1/8 turn or less.

It has more than 16 levels. I've counted about 22 visually (the high levels start to blend together), but it does take 32 presses to get to low from high. You don't have to press separately of course, I was just trying to count the levels. It takes about 2.5 seconds to sweep from low to high, and 2.5 to go back. You can stop anywhere in between. One cool thing is that when turned off, the light will stay at that level when turned back on. It's neat to have it on low, then turn if off. Then you can use the switch for momentary low...very useful for navigating in the house during the middle of the night.

All in all, I LOVE this light! I'd buy it again even at $35.


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## Flymo (Jul 30, 2007)

Thank you! FlashCrazy, for your information.
Sounds good !


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## onthebeam (Jul 30, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> I just received mine.
> It only has the two buttons as shown, press the top one to increase brightness, press the lower one to decrease brightness. Low is lower than any of the Fenix lights, but not as low as a LiteFlux LF2 or HDS. Pretty low, though.



Bummer. My original version 2 had a low that went all the way done to just barely visible, so you could actually turn off the light using the buttons on the side.

You might have version 3, which had a brighter lowest setting.It probably wouldn't matter to me if we didn't use it as our chief baby checking light.

Waiting for the DX model, which hit the market at the same time as Kai's.


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## julesb (Jul 30, 2007)

I've just got the DX VB-16. It arrived wrapped ina jiffy vag with some bubble wrap. No box or instructions. A quick release lanyard was attached. 

The matt black finish is flawless, finely textured. finish, and appears to be ha-iii - my pocket knife will not scratch it readily. There is some dust inside the lens. The threads are well cut and clean, but benefited from some silicone grease. The clicky tail cap is "forward" i.e. allows momentary on from the off position. It is very stoutly constructed, slightly larger and heavier then an invova xo2 or t3.

The beam is as described above, with a very bright hotspot and a graduation to the spill. 32 levels from high to low, as best I can tell. Draws approx 700ma from a freshly charged 18650 at 4.2v.

Ther is no red button on the reverse side, and therefore no strobe or sos mode.

The very lowest setting is extremely low, lower than on any of my other lights.

I can't open it up to show you the insides, as it appears to be bonded shut. Shame as I am sure by next year seoul will have an even more effiicent led.

All in all, really really nice.


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## persoontje (Jul 31, 2007)

I'm thinking to buy this light too. Do you know if a protected 18650 would fit and could you give my any idea of how bright it is? (in comparsion with a fenix l2d-ce for instance) It's seems a very cool light for a very good price to me ;-)


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## FlashCrazy (Jul 31, 2007)

persoontje said:


> I'm thinking to buy this light too. Do you know if a protected 18650 would fit and could you give my any idea of how bright it is? (in comparsion with a fenix l2d-ce for instance) It's seems a very cool light for a very good price to me ;-)


 
Protected 18650's fit without any problems. 

The L2D and VB-16 are pretty close in overall output, but the VB-16's hotspot is brighter. The spillbeam size is about the same on both, (slighty bigger diameter on the VB-16) but the L2D's is a little brighter. All in all, the VB-16 matches the L2D, but has more throw. 

Chevrofreak tested the L2D at 111 (real) lumens. I'd estimate the VB-16 at about 125...not a whole lot of difference. They're both great for indoor use, but the VB-16 has better throw for outdoors.

Definitely worth the money!


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## onthebeam (Jul 31, 2007)

julesb said:


> I've just got the DX VB-16.



Me, too. The VB-16 arrived today, under separate cover from the DSD charger and batteries I ordered at the same time.

The beam is flawless and is, how do I say, HOLY SH*T bright!!!! I have never seen an LED light even close to this, even my older VB-16, which itself was a barn burner. It makes my Orb Raw NS on high look like a micro keychain light. Another great throw light I have, the Streamlight ProPolymer AA is also a weakling next to the VB-16.

The light came with no lube on the o-ring but that's easily remedied. The finish is beautiful and looks to be HA3 to me, although I'm not the type to start taking a knife to it to check.

This light is simply unbelievable. I've tried it on CR123s, the Ultrafire protected R123s and the unprotected Ultrafire 18650. Both types of Ultrafire batteries were from DX, too, and fit with no problems.

This is a must have light and now I'm glad my wife lost my earlier VB-16, which was also terrific but had some ringyness in the beam. This one is silky smooth. The clicky is almost too soft but I'll get used to it. No dust inside the head either.

The only downside is that the lowest low is brighter than the earlier version I had. On that one, you could turn off the light with side buttons. On this version, the lowest low is still lower than my ORB raw low setting (4.8 overall and 10.0 throw) and even slightly lower than the Fenix LOP-SE (3.3 overall and 6.32 throw). At it's lowest, the VB-16 seems to have more throw but less spill than the Fenix.

Wow. This VB-16 is a no-brainer and I'm glad it doesn't have the strobe and SOS settings. I would also estimate at least 125 lumens! Beyond the Surefire U2 for sure.


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## persoontje (Aug 1, 2007)

Thanks for your answers.
What would be better, to run this light with two protected rc123's or 1 protected 18650?


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## FlashCrazy (Aug 1, 2007)

persoontje said:


> Thanks for your answers.
> What would be better, to run this light with two protected rc123's or 1 protected 18650?


 
RCR123's will give you a little more brightness, but the 18650 will give you longer runtime. On the highest setting, RCR123's will give about an hour of runtime....an 18650 should give around 3 hours.


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## persoontje (Aug 1, 2007)

Ok, well I'd go with the 18650 then. Do you know if there is any difference between the version sold at kaidomain and the version sold at dx?

And just me flashlight-nooob: should I use ultrafire's 18650 or are the AW's much better (well more expensive too :duh2


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## FlashCrazy (Aug 1, 2007)

persoontje said:


> Ok, well I'd go with the 18650 then. Do you know if there is any difference between the version sold at kaidomain and the version sold at dx?
> 
> And just me flashlight-nooob: should I use ultrafire's 18650 or are the AW's much better (well more expensive too :duh2


 
You can't go wrong with AW's. Not sure about the Ultrafire 18650's...I have a pair of their protected RCR123's, so far so good. 

The Kaidomain version should be the same as the DX version...they often get the same products. Interesting note...the Kaidomain version shows "The 4th Generation" written on the head of the light. These aren't the 4th generation that has the SOS and strobe function via the extra red button on the other side of the body, so I don't know why it says that on the head...hmm. Of course, there aren't any pictures of the other side of the body.


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## persoontje (Aug 1, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> You can't go wrong with AW's. Not sure about the Ultrafire 18650's...I have a pair of their protected RCR123's, so far so good.
> 
> The Kaidomain version should be the same as the DX version...they often get the same products. Interesting note...the Kaidomain version shows "The 4th Generation" written on the head of the light. These aren't the 4th generation that has the SOS and strobe function via the extra red button on the other side of the body, so I don't know why it says that on the head...hmm. Of course, there aren't any pictures of the other side of the body.



Yes I noticed that tooo. They look like Waion's version (red button and the 4th generation and so on) I'll mail kaidomain and ask if this one has a strobe/sos mode...

Still have to decide betweeen the AW's en the ultrafire though... AW has really good reputation, but much more expensive....


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## ernsanada (Aug 1, 2007)

julesb said:


> I've just got the DX VB-16. It arrived wrapped ina jiffy vag with some bubble wrap. No box or instructions. A quick release lanyard was attached.
> 
> The matt black finish is flawless, finely textured. finish, and appears to be ha-iii - my pocket knife will not scratch it readily. There is some dust inside the lens. The threads are well cut and clean, but benefited from some silicone grease. The clicky tail cap is "forward" i.e. allows momentary on from the off position. It is very stoutly constructed, slightly larger and heavier then an invova xo2 or t3.
> 
> ...



The is Waion's VB-16 (SSC P4 USWOI). No glue on threads.


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## persoontje (Aug 1, 2007)

I'm think I gonna buy it at DX, with a DSD charger and ultrafire protected 18650 cells. I read some posts about the ultrafire battery being larger, have you any idea if it will fit? (I think it does, but I want to be sure before I order... :thinking


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## fasuto (Aug 2, 2007)

I have the waigon vb-16 but all (about 7) my 18650 fit without any problem


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## Flymo (Aug 6, 2007)

The one from KD is not HA-III, but HA-II.
The emitter VB-16 from DX, is a True SSC P4 Z-LED Emitter
- SSC MPU/Model # *W42180-U *(color bin: *SW0* - pure white).
(is been confirmed by DX).


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## cranphin (Aug 20, 2007)

Sadly the one at DX is out of stock, even if you ordered when it still was in stock like me, -wah- 

I'll wait and see if it comes back, just hope they'll still have the same model.

Is there a way to check if it's that SSC MPU/Model when you have the actual flashlight ?


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## Flymo (Aug 20, 2007)

Same for me, Cranphin.




The VB-16 from DX MUST have a HA-III finish (as the advertisment claims), if it is NOT ? (I) send it back !! and ask your money back.


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## fasuto (Sep 14, 2007)

Could someone point me to a holster that fit well in this light, please?


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## LA OZ (Sep 14, 2007)

Got mine a few days ago. It has a slight green tint. The lens has some dust on the inside. I could not remove the head for cleaning as it is glue shut. Overall, it is very good for $25. I bought it when it first came out. The first one they sent me was faulty. This one is a replacement and it took a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.


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## T4R06 (Sep 14, 2007)

i have earlier $25 vb-16 from dx. it is ha3. powered by ultrafire 18650. my dad came here for vacation and saw my vb-16. now i need to order again because he snatch the vb-16 together w/ those protected 18650.


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## cranphin (Sep 14, 2007)

Yeah, mine finally arrived 

Could be HA III, can't actuall tell the difference from HA II, how do you tell ? 
And yes, glued very very shut. That's really annoying, but I can live with it 
I've got bad experiences with trying to open glued ones 
Lemme know if someone manages tho 

It works fine tho, and atleast I know not to put protected ultrafire RCR123's in it, cause they're too long 
If the battery sticks out, at all, from the tube. -Don't close it!-  It doesn't fit 
Might be what killed some 

AW's should fit tho, need to try that 

And it did take forever to get, but seems they're restocked properly now


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## T4R06 (Sep 14, 2007)

@cranphin - enjoy your vb-16. its nearly impossible to open the head. it is very tight. i manage to open many SF heads like KL4, E1L, KL3 etc but this one is really tight.


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## havand (Sep 14, 2007)

Ok, i'm confused. Did Waion and DX source them from the same place (and Waion cherry picked) or is DX buying them from Waion in bulk??


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## mattblick (Sep 14, 2007)

persoontje said:


> Thanks for your answers.
> What would be better, to run this light with two protected rc123's or 1 protected 18650?



Got my VB-16 in yesterday and it is great. Bright, clean, white light with a wonderful beam pattern. I have become a fan of SSC emitters. I would say it is a HA-III coating. I ran the textured screw on the bottom of Vice grips across it with considerable pressure and wasn't able to mark the finish. 

I now better understand why people make a big deal about forward clickies; it is nicer. I wouldn't choose a $200 light instead of a $35 light to get one, but getting it on a $35 light is frosting..

I tried two different pairs of protected RCR123s and neither fit. I think you will have to go with unprotected cells if you want to use that size. I will be ordering some protected 18650s, using unprotected 123s until then.


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## onthebeam (Sep 14, 2007)

mattblick said:


> I tried two different pairs of protected RCR123s and neither fit. I think you will have to go with unprotected cells if you want to use that size.



I have used the Ultrafire Protected R123s from DX and they fit with no problem.


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## adirondackdestroyer (Sep 14, 2007)

I'm considering buying one of these buy have a few questions first. 

1. Are there any differences between the DX and the Kai version? They are the same price so I figured they are the same light. Are there any differences between the Kai/DX version and the Waion version? 
2. Does a protected 18650 from AW fit in this light?


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## T4R06 (Sep 16, 2007)

@adirondackdestroyer - dx/kai version are the same. and for waions version, the latest offering is 4th gen which has red button for strobe and SOS.

and according to him these are old models/low quality etc.. that is why he did not offered on CPF

but for me it is not low quality or bad emitter. actually they are bright and tough. i have 2 right now. the $25 earlier offered and $35 both DX.

edit: and for AW's 18650 protected, yes they are fit.


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## onthebeam (Sep 16, 2007)

T4R06 said:


> and according to him these are old models/low quality etc.. that is why he did not offered on CPF




All of the current fourth generation VB-16s are of the same quality. The difference is that the Kai and DX do not have the red strobe sos button. By the way, all of these are "clones" from the original VB-16 from a company in Australia that had an exclusive licensing / marketing agreement. I have had three of these from various sources and the manufacturing quality in all is very strong.


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## Mash (Sep 16, 2007)

Anyone got the Cree version yet? Wonder how the two versions compare.


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## cranphin (Sep 16, 2007)

onthebeam said:


> I have used the Ultrafire Protected R123s from DX and they fit with no problem.



Which one's exactly ?  
(sku number?)

The Grey ones I have don't even come close to fitting.
They don't stick out at all from the tube ?
you didn't force them to fit when you screwed the end on ?


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## cranphin (Sep 16, 2007)

mattblick said:


> I tried two different pairs of protected RCR123s and neither fit. I think you will have to go with unprotected cells if you want to use that size. I will be ordering some protected 18650s, using unprotected 123s until then.



AW's protected R123's fit fine in mine. Though they shouldn't have been any longer at all 

Mayby the length of the battery tube isn't always the same on these VB 16's though, you could just have a shorty then


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## onthebeam (Sep 16, 2007)

cranphin said:


> Which one's exactly ?
> (sku number?)
> 
> The Grey ones I have don't even come close to fitting.
> ...


 Mine are gray Ultrafire 16340s, 880mAh, 3.6 V. They fit with lots of room to spare.

SKU is 3273


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## cranphin (Sep 17, 2007)

onthebeam said:


> Mine are gray Ultrafire 16340s, 880mAh, 3.6 V. They fit with lots of room to spare.
> 
> SKU is 3273



Seems there is variation in tube length then, cause they stick out atleast a mm in mine, and I've got the same sku r123's


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## mitchell300 (Sep 18, 2007)

T4R06 said:


> @cranphin - enjoy your vb-16. its nearly impossible to open the head. it is very tight. i manage to open many SF heads like KL4, E1L, KL3 etc but this one is really tight.


 
I received mine last week, and decided I wanted to take it apart, its pretty easy if you have some thick tape, some pipe pliers and a vice,
I did this and it loosend with out too much effort.


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## cranphin (Sep 18, 2007)

mitchell300 said:


> I received mine last week, and decided I wanted to take it apart, its pretty easy if you have some thick tape, some pipe pliers and a vice,
> I did this and it loosend with out too much effort.



Hmm, I've got bad experiences with things like that 
And this is the DX model ?

Any pictures ?


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## Flymo (Sep 18, 2007)

I received mine last week, but it is NOT HA-III (like the advertisment said) but HA-II and that is to bad.

Pros: 
Emitter is very good in the center.
Nice spot and spillbeam, good throw.
variable output
18650 battery fits good
RCR123A fits good.
125 + lumen (I think)
Nice and clean allu. reflector
Good overall runtime.
Good price.($35.00)
Lanyard (cheapest available) included.

Cons: 
The tailswitch is much to soft and go's very easily on.
HA-II finish.Non-Mil-Spec black version. 
Head cannot be unscrewed.
No AR coated glaslens.
Tailswitch smells funny.
Threads where bonedry (easy to fix).
Bit to long IMHO.


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## cranphin (Sep 18, 2007)

Flymo said:


> I received mine last week, but it is NOT HA-III (like the advertisment said) but HA-II and that is to bad.



I believe you, but how can you tell it's HA-II and not HA-III ? 

I kinde like the soft tail clicky btw.
Can use it to signal or light something up very shortly 

Think that's what's called a forward clicky ?



So will you be sending it back with no HA-III ?


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## Flymo (Sep 18, 2007)

I have also a Pentagonlight L2 with a (absolute) HA-III finish (IMO, better than Surefire) and the difference is very noticeable.
And yes, I send it back. (I ONLY want flashlights with HA-III finish).
Or somebody else want to buy it from me. (than they can send me a PM).


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## Gunner12 (Sep 18, 2007)

Sorry but this is one of my pet peeves, There is not such thing as HA-II, only, HA-III. Type-II anodizing is NOT HA, HA refers to Type-III anodizing (So saying HA-III is kinda repetitive). Type-II can usually be scratched by a knife and is easily colored while HA, HA-III or Type-III(what ever you choose to call it) is usually natural or black. Sorry if I seemed angry, I was not.

The VB-16 would be a better deal if it had more differences in the modes. But for the price it is pretty good.


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## cranphin (Sep 18, 2007)

Gunner12 said:


> Sorry but this is one of my pet peeves, There is not such thing as HA-II, only, HA-III. Type-II anodizing is NOT HA, HA refers to Type-III anodizing (So saying HA-III is kinda repetitive). Type-II can usually be scratched by a knife and is easily colored while HA, HA-III or Type-III(what ever you choose to call it) is usually natural or black. Sorry if I seemed angry, I was not.



Hey, no problem, I like accurate names 
Just keep forgetting what they are all the time 

Hmm, that's my problem, scratching with a knife is a destructive test 
And I don't have the eye for it


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## Flymo (Sep 19, 2007)

Gunner12, you are correct.

HA-II is a anodising on the surface (some of them use a extra paintcoating to make it rustproof).
HA-III is Hard Anodising with a different (expensiver) proces, that goes deeper, to make it scratch-resistant.
The kniveproof is nonsense and is not a industry standaard test.
There are 2 versions of HA-III, smooth and rough.


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## dts71 (Sep 19, 2007)

I was home and sick  this day but was rewarded with a VB-16 from dx (ordered 6 weeks ago). I can confirm that this is not the grey "*Mil-spec HA-III*", but rather what they refer to as "*a Non-Mil-Spec black version available for custom ordering*". Except for the lack of HA and the fact that there is more than plenty of dust behind the lens, I think it's a superb light :twothumbs 

+1 on holster recommendation

Any ideas of how to make the clickie less sensitive?
Is the *Waion VB-16 4th gen. *also this soft?


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## fasuto (Sep 21, 2007)

dts71 said:


> +1 on holster recommendation
> Is the *Waion VB-16 4th gen. *also this soft?



Yes, I have the waion version and click is very soft. I like it but is better to twist the tail a little while carrying in a backpack.


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## vetkaw63 (Sep 22, 2007)

I just received mine from DX. IT IS HA. Itried scratching it with a knife. No go.
It is a beautiful light. I would recommend it to anyone.
Mike


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## Mr.Urahara reloaded (Sep 26, 2007)

Got mine today. Really HA-III but got the black version, not the on pictured on the DX site. So far like it with a 18650!

Scratch test with a screwdriver and a knive had no efford, coating seems to be durable.


MfG Mr.Urahara


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## Flymo (Sep 27, 2007)

Mr.Urahara,

I'm almost for sure that it is HA-II (Non-Mil-Spec black) and not HA-III. 
How do you know, it is real HA-III ? What is the the difference from yours and from the DX site ??


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## Mr.Urahara reloaded (Sep 27, 2007)

Mine is really BLACKand it is smooth not lie the one on the picture and the o-rings are black too. I tried scratching it with a screwdriver like i did with my Inova T3. No scratch at all. If i will try brutal force, i'm sure i CAN scratch it but that would apply for the Inova too i guess...
I post on another German board, where some respectable CPFer post too and at least 3 of them confirmed that their black VB-16 from DX is Ha-III.
It seems only black ones have been delivered ( because the Mil-spec are still backordered?)
Difference between so called HA-II and HA-III?

Do you have a maglite? That is so called HA-II. Get a screwdriver and try scratching it. Now try the same with the VB-16, that should give evidence.


MfG Mr.Urahara


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## Gunner12 (Sep 27, 2007)

Arrg, there is no HA-II, seeing HA-II is a pet peeve of mine. There is no such thing. Only HA and Type II anodizing. HA is type III, so is HA-III, means the same thing, and maglites have type II. Non Milispec HA is still HA-III but just thinner. But it is still thicker and more scratch resistant then then Type II.

I think the Cheaper Cree version of the WF-16 has type II anodizing.


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## Flymo (Sep 28, 2007)

I have the same VB-16 and it is clear for me, that it is Non Milispec HA black. And it is indeed, like a Mag-lite.sick2.
But I own also a Pentagonlight L2 HA-III and that is a really difference with the VB-16, the PL L2 is much more scratchresistant than the VB-16.
But in general, the VB-16 is a nice (but not the best).
I know for sure, that the Waion VB-16, is a better quality.


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## Mr.Urahara reloaded (Sep 28, 2007)

@ Flymo

I stated from your kast post that you were able to scratch your VB-16?

Can you please show a picture of the scratches?

I have mine only for 5 Days now and no scratches have occured so far ( by the way, it fell yesterday of the floor and bounced down the stairs:green: and i thought damn it first battlescares  but no sign of the coating wearing of)


@Gunner12

thats why i say: SO CALLED HA-III


MfG Mr.Urahara


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## uh1c (Sep 29, 2007)

Flymo said:


> ...Tailswitch smells funny...
> ...
> 
> As a noob, I must stand in awe of true flashaholics who smell their tailcaps, ...uh, flashlights. :bow:
> UH1C


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## Norm (Sep 29, 2007)

:candle:


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## Flymo (Sep 29, 2007)

Mr.Urahara,

I know for sure that my VB-16 is the same as yours, but I don't try to scratch it (why should I) but indeed, the coating it is very tough, but try to find a Pentagonlight L2 (HA-III) and you can see, what I mean.


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## Mr.Urahara reloaded (Sep 29, 2007)

@ Flymo

You can't tell from the look of the surface if it is tougher than another, second is that i do not have access to a Pentagonlight but yes, i can see a difference beetwen the coating of a Inova and the VB-16.

While the Vb-16 is really glossy the Inova is matt.

This is what my Inova T3 looks like after it fell 5 floors down on concrete marble ( there was a crack in the marble).





I don't think the VB-16 could handle that without any bigger damage.


MfG Mr.Urahara


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## uh1c (Sep 29, 2007)

nevermind.......................


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## vetkaw63 (Sep 30, 2007)

HA is meant for abrasion resistance, not strength. It won't help in a fall. The flashlight is only as durable as the material that it is machined of.
Mike


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## nanotech17 (Sep 30, 2007)

Mr.Urahara reloaded said:


> @ Flymo
> 
> You can't tell from the look of the surface if it is tougher than another, second is that i do not have access to a Pentagonlight but yes, i can see a difference beetwen the coating of a Inova and the VB-16.
> 
> ...



Now that is pure HAIII.
I gave my T3 as a gift to a school teacher a non-flashaholic and after told him the whole story & the price he just oo:


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## Torcherman (Oct 2, 2007)

Flymo said:


> Does somebody allready have experience with the VB-16 from DX?
> My question is:
> 
> - Does it have a real HA3 finish ?
> ...


 
OK I do have the very latest from DX, the VB16 CREE.

Points:
It actually is 32 steps from Idle to Max . You cant really notice the last 10 steps of the 32 settings as the light output is already near max at around 22 steps--however the current consumption keeps going up toward the max 32nd max step!. ( depending on the sate of charge or type of battery used)

Now the light output will vary with the state of charge in your 18650.
If it is fully charged you will see consumption of around 750 ma however this will decline to 550 ma before too long. This does not effect the lower step levels--your light output may stop increasing say by the 10th to 15th step---no more current available.

With a fresh charged 18650 the current is as follows:
Idle 5 ma, each step there after is 30ma addition. Example 10 presses = 300 ma. 20 presses = 600, 30 presses = 900ma.

The problem is that you run out of voltage with the 18650 as it is 3.7 volts. As the battery drops voltage the max available current drops because of the LED characteristics. So as stated before you will notice the Light may stop increasing output at a lower step point. 
The VB does not boost.

IF you want this light to fully regulate properly put C123 x 2 cells in it and it will perform and increase current in equal steps all the way to max.

Please note that because of the higher voltage your input current at max is approx 450ma with each step worth 15 ma and idle is about 2 to 3 ma.


The Finish is good - not sure what Ha rating but definitely tough enough.

Output is Good but not awsome.
On 18650 fresh charge = 3500 lux at 1 m
On 123 x 2 constant O/p= 5500 lux at 1 m
Overall output is great on 123 and good on 18650 when fresh.

The beam is general purpose - it has an evenly dispursed fat hot spot therfore is no mean thrower. It is very usefull for the first 60 meters or 200 feet but lacks penatration. ( I think the reflector isn't quite optimum for cree leds)

It is great as a general ready to go unit with memory of its last mode- makes it ideal for not grabbing peoples attention flashing through all fancy modes before you get to your desired setting ( like others)
Good unit worth having around and at 35 odd bucks it is really good value.

Just get one--maybee the SSC will be a sharper focus however the electronics would be the same.

7 out of 10 for me --cheers


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## silversinksam (Oct 10, 2007)

You want to know how to take it apart with no fuss or muss and no damage?

I have thine answers even though my title is still unenlightened :laughing:

Here's how you do it, you don't need a vise, you dont need a wrench, the only tool you will need is one of those flat square 1mm thick rubber jar openers. If you dont have one, just use a wrench with the flashlight being protected by a couple layers of paper towels, YOU *WILL NOT* need to exert much force to remove it once the freezer trick weakens the adhesive bond.

OK, Step one. Put it in the freezer for 10 minutes to 15 minutes

Step two, use the plastic jar opener and take the top off. Its that simple. This is a computer cooling trick that you use to remove a heatsink that is held together by thermal adhesive. This trick works well with normal adhesives as well. All the freezer trick does is weaken the bond line to allow it to be removed easily enough.

Edit: Here's mine: (I added a pic to prove just how easy this is)








Enjoy.....

Silversinksam

PS, You can use this trick to remove any flashlight's top that is locked shut via adhesive. If it's welded shut, I can't help yah


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## Taepo (Oct 11, 2007)

Man...you had my hopes up. I tried the freezer method last night (twice actually), even tried using some wrench pliers ....no good.

Maybe you have some special freezer but the head on my VB-16 is not budging.


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## silversinksam (Oct 11, 2007)

Taepo said:


> Man...you had my hopes up. I tried the freezer method last night (twice actually), even tried using some wrench pliers ....no good.
> 
> Maybe you have some special freezer but the head on my VB-16 is not budging.


 
Yours might just be really tight, it should be noted there is virtually no adhesive on the threads, the freezing and contracting combined with breaking the adhesives bond line should have worked. I've done this to two VB-16's and they both came off with this method.

A buddy of mine ordered this light weeks before I did, I was able to open up his the same way as mine via the freezer trick.


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## Glow_Worm (Oct 12, 2007)

I'm afraid the freezer trick didn't work for me either. And the SN on mine is just 31 below yours. I'll keep trying though, now that I know it's possible (for some at least). The VB-16 is one of my favorite lights -- nice size, very bright, beautiful beam, variable levels, and tactical switch.

Too bad the numnuts who assembled it didn't bother to wipe the dust off the inside of the lens before gluing it shut. Probably would be a bit brighter w/ a clean lens...

--kirk


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## FlashCrazy (Oct 12, 2007)

I put mine in the freezer yesterday and forgot about it.  I remembered 4 hours later and took it out...ice stuck to it and all...lol. Put it in the vise (with rubber jaws installed). Used a strap wrench to no avail...the whole light kept turning in the vise. I removed the rubber jaws and put the light back in the vise with just a rag for protection. I gave the head of the light a few good whacks with a screwdriver handle to maybe break the adhesive loose. Used the strap wrench again, and with A LOT of force, it finally broke loose. 

Pretty amazing how well it was on there, as there's only about four to five threads where it attaches. The adhesive had a green tint, and was as hard as epoxy. I had to chip the rest of it away with a sharp pick... the stuff is really tough!


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## silversinksam (Oct 13, 2007)

FlashCrazy said:


> I put mine in the freezer yesterday and forgot about it.  I remembered 4 hours later and took it out...ice stuck to it and all...lol. Put it in the vise (with rubber jaws installed). Used a strap wrench to no avail...the whole light kept turning in the vise. I removed the rubber jaws and put the light back in the vise with just a rag for protection. I gave the head of the light a few good whacks with a screwdriver handle to maybe break the adhesive loose. Used the strap wrench again, and with A LOT of force, it finally broke loose.
> 
> Pretty amazing how well it was on there, as there's only about four to five threads where it attaches. The adhesive had a green tint, and was as hard as epoxy. I had to chip the rest of it away with a sharp pick... the stuff is really tough!


 
They use very little adhesive, I'll update this post with a pic later to show how little adhesive is used as I took a few pics.

PS, the freezer trick works best if its only placed in the freezer for 10-15 minutes, more than that makes it more difficult.


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## cranphin (Oct 13, 2007)

No luck here, did break a rubber grippy thing with it 
But, did leave it long in the freezer too ^_^

I think amount of glue will vary a lot, it just depends how liberal the chinese kid was with the glue brush 

I've found with some other lights (MTE rebels), that if there's a lot of glue on just one line of thread, say half round, it will really really jam up the whole thing. Cause it becomes a hard half ring of glue that jams it even if it's no longer adhesing to either part.

I -hate- glue


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## silversinksam (Oct 15, 2007)

cranphin said:


> No luck here, did break a rubber grippy thing with it
> But, did leave it long in the freezer too ^_^
> 
> I think amount of glue will vary a lot, it just depends how liberal the chinese kid was with the glue brush
> ...


 

If you get it open, make sure you clean the threads well, The tiny amount of glue used is tough stuff. If even a spec remains, the head won't screw on properly. (I took a pic of the removed adhesive because it's unusual stuff, I have no clue what type of adhesive it is, all I know is it can be defeated) 
I told another buddy out of State that this is a decent light, so I took pics of the process to remove the head with the freezer trick so he can repeat the process, since he's a fellow staff member at overclockers.com, he's well versed in the freezer trick, he'll get the top of easy enough as I've done.

This is the picture I took of how much adhesive was used, as you can see, it's not much, as I said a few times, this light's head was torqued tight when manufactured, that's why it's difficult to remove, especially since so little adhesive is used.







I should start a non profit VB-16 head removal service, being that people are still having trouble removing the VB-16's top. There's one member here at CPF's that's going on vacation in the coming weeks and will be 20 minutes from me while on vacation, I told him to stop by and I'll remove the top for him.


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## Mash (Oct 16, 2007)

Asked this awhile ago in another thread but didnt get an answer, so will ask here again:
Why do the manufacturers glue the heads on anyway?
What is it they are trying to gain by doing this? I know prob the majority of their intended customers arent CPFers or modders, so are they trying to stop people treating them like old incans and trying to change the "bulbs" etc !!!!?????


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## katsyonak (Oct 16, 2007)

I don't think they care much about modders. Think it's because sometimes screwing the head can change the focus and/or shorten the LED on some lights.


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## katsyonak (Oct 16, 2007)

Glow_Worm said:


> I'm afraid the freezer trick didn't work for me either. And the SN on mine is just 31 below yours


Maybe the kid ran out of glue by the time he/she got to silversinksam's light 

Well, I got mine today and already froze it three times, tried to heat it by running it for some time on high, even heated it's head with this butane torch lighter.
So far, nothing worked and I'm glad that the light still does. That's a shame because I really wanted to put a Q5 in there.
Up untill now I managed to open every single glued light that I have (about five) using heat, acetone and lots of force so I hope I'll manage to crack open this though one eventually.


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## Taepo (Oct 16, 2007)

Yea, so I finally got mine open - the results are not pretty however. After a while using rubber grippies and rags, I just said "F this!" I used the pliers directly on the body. 

First the main batt compartment section came loose - not really what I was looking for. Then I finally got the head off using 2 pliers turning against each other. :twothumbs

So end result - I was finally able to clean the greasy/dusty glass. My glue was reddish in color. Damage? Marks and nicks on the body from the pliars - don't mind too much since this is my all-around work horse light (will be dropped and banged around many times in the future.) However the rubber buttons that control the brightness did not survive the pliar attack, and fell off. I just covered the exposed buttons with gaffers tape (I don't change levels too often anyway).

OK...now bring on the 300lm SSC LED's !!! My VB-16 is ready.


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## silversinksam (Oct 16, 2007)

katsyonak said:


> Maybe the kid ran out of glue by the time he/she got to silversinksam's light


 
LOL! I'd agree with that, except a couple weeks before I opened a buddies VB-16 as well with no difficulty.


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## Markcm (Apr 12, 2008)

*Re: failed attempt to open my VB-16*

I just can't resist taking things apart either. I'm pretty handy with tools and all that but none the less...freezer for 10-15 minutes, heat, rubber grip vise, strap wrenches, rubber strips and channel locks, and a lot of elbow grease but no go. I gotta believe that not all of these were put together with the same adhesives after reading that some folks get theirs to come apart rather easily while others destroy them trying.

All I ended up with were a few gouge marks in the head of my silver anodized SSC vb16 where my pipe wrench actually ripped through the rubber I had hoped would protect it. I really like the vb16 but I was hoping to try out some other emitters in there... I think the SSC is a great performer in there, but it's fun to play! I hope anyone else trying to open up their vb16 has better luck than I did.


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## Glow_Worm (Apr 12, 2008)

*Re: failed attempt to open my VB-16*

Amen. I attacked mine a couple days ago, & had the exact same experience. With a rubber-protected vise & strap wrench I got the body off the head, but still couldn't loosen the bezel. And I gouged the light in multiple places where the rubber broke through on the vise. But at least I was able to poke a Q-tip through the hole on the reflector to clean off the inside of the lens. Then I touched up my gouges as best I could w/ a black Sharpie. My net result was exactly Zero increase in brightness according to my Lux Meter. Sigh...


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## LA OZ (Apr 12, 2008)

*Re: failed attempt to open my VB-16*



Glow_Worm said:


> Amen. I attacked mine a couple days ago, & had the exact same experience. With a rubber-protected vise & strap wrench I got the body off the head, but still couldn't loosen the bezel. And I gouged the light in multiple places where the rubber broke through on the vise. But at least I was able to poke a Q-tip through the hole on the reflector to clean off the inside of the lens. Then I touched up my gouges as best I could w/ a black Sharpie. My net result was exactly Zero increase in brightness according to my Lux Meter. Sigh...



I feel for you. I have done similar but much more damages to my Gladius. My VB-16 is very well glue and I won't risk opening it though I would love to so I could clean the reflector and lens.


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## Markcm (Apr 18, 2008)

*Re: success in removing the reflector from a VB-16*

Oh-boy!

I didn't have any luck with disassembling my silver anodized vb-16 (just scratched it up as mentioned in my post above) BUT....

I tried a black one, well actually two black ones and the head came off with hand force only. There wasn't any glue on either of them, or oring...

So it's a mixed bag with these vb-16, some reflectors seem to be essentially welded on with adhesive and some come right off no problem.

Looks like I'll get to play after all:twothumbs

-Markcm


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## Cypress (May 28, 2008)

*Re: success in removing the reflector from a VB-16*

I would just like to add that I am forced to take my VB-16 apart due to protected 123A batteries breaking something inside the light and rendering the adjustment feature useless. 

If you have this light, DO NOT force fit protected 123A's!!!!!!


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