# New to me compressor: Quincy QT-5 ...



## wquiles

I already have a nice, small, and quiet Eaton compressor , but I was in the right place and the right time to acquire this Quincy QT-5 compressor for my "shop": It is a 5HP (3 PH, 1750 RPM motor currently wired for 480VAC), two stage, 175PSI, 60 gal compressor, with what it seems are all of the factory installed options including the "radiator", oil-level shutoff switch, water accumulator/discharge unit, and 120VAC automatic drain switch mounted at the bottom of the tank. The unit has been always indoors, and has been in service for 10 years, but used very, very little, and in fact it has not been used at all for the last 5-6 years. When I tried it running it, it ran little a kitten, nice and smooth. True, not as quiet as my super low noise Eaton, but not loud at all.

EDIT: I found that based on the extra configuration options that my compressor is in fact configured as the "MAX" option:
- Electric ODP single or three phase motor with motor overload protection
- Low oil shutdown (which is the sensor that broke off!)
- Air-cooled aftercooler
- Pneumatic tank drain - I have it on the side, and I can tell from the stains in the floor that the output was not connected - it simply sprayed down into the floor, right by the base of the compressor - how does this work?
- Vibration isolator pads shipped loose with all horizontal units
- Industry leading 5-Year True Blue Warranty


It was quite a bit of work to get it out of the closet in the second story where it was located, but we finally got it out of the building using two sets of wheels 





































Since it is about 600-650 pounds, mostly on top, we used every single rope/clamp we had:











I also was able to get about 60+ feet of copper pipe along with 6-7 regulated outputs, each with a ball valve, and a cabinet for storing dangerous chemicals/fluids:






One amazing thing - this compressor has been there for 10 years - they never removed the factory cover in the radiator !!!











And here it is in my house/shop, where it will stay from now on:











I have to work out some details with Barry to power it, since I have to install a VFD to get it running again, so hopefully in a couple of weeks it will be ready. I will post more pictures as I get more work done on it 

Will


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## darkzero

wquiles said:


>


 

LOL, nice, reminds me of the time I had to bring this home (I think you beat us on the amount of straps though).


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## TranquillityBase

Great find Will


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## unterhausen

They need an "extremely jealous" smilie here. I need a real compressor real bad.


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## Atlascycle

Will, 
For an Air compressor I would not waste the effort on a VFD, Just find a Single phase motor for it.

Jason


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## darkzero

wquiles said:


> And here it is in my house/shop, where it will stay from now on


 
Will, being as top heavy as you said, will you be anchoring it to the ground there or build a stand? I'd be very worried if you were in Cali. Going to sell there other compressor now (not that I 'm interested, just curious)? Looks like you're going that have a full blown shop in no time. :thumbsup:


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## StrikerDown

Nice! 

You needed another project to keep you busy!


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## 65535

That's an amazing compressor, hope you payed a lot for it, I'd be upset if you hadn't.  Those things are expensive.

Anyways, looks sweet as all hell. A VFD would be the cheapest way to get it running on single phase probably, RPC and others are expensive. 

Just need a simple VFD with softstart and a channel that allows on off control to go to the pressure switch.


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## wquiles

darkzero said:


> Will, being as top heavy as you said, will you be anchoring it to the ground there or build a stand? I'd be very worried if you were in Cali.


Yes, it will be bolted down and I am planning on at least one side bracing arm.




darkzero said:


> Going to sell there other compressor now (not that I 'm interested, just curious)? Looks like you're going that have a full blown shop in no time. :thumbsup:


I initially though of selling it and shipping it, but then I remembered how the first compressor I got was damaged in shipping (even though it was in a crate - which I no longer have), so trying to sell it with shipping is just out of the question. Right now I am selling it to my next door neighbor that has helped me with not only this compressor move, but also with the mill, and prior to that getting the lathe installed, etc..





65535 said:


> That's an amazing compressor, hope you payed a lot for it, I'd be upset if you hadn't.  Those things are expensive.


I am not going to say how much, but you should be upset with me now, and lets leave it at that.





65535 said:


> Anyways, looks sweet as all hell. A VFD would be the cheapest way to get it running on single phase probably, RPC and others are expensive.
> 
> Just need a simple VFD with softstart and a channel that allows on off control to go to the pressure switch.





Atlascycle said:


> Will,
> For an Air compressor I would not waste the effort on a VFD, Just find a Single phase motor for it.



I am planning on the VFD for two reasons:
1) Due to the soft-start feature - I will need it since the compressor will be taking power from the same 30A service while either the lathe or the mill is running, so with two loads connected I need them both with the soft start to prevent a spike from tripping the breaker. 

2) The other reason for the VFD is that I will not run the compressor at full power - I don't need 16.3 ACFM at 175 PSI in my shop at the moment (this is running at 942 RPM at the compressor, while the motor is running at 1750 RPM). Per Quincy's documentation, I can run this compressor with either a 3HP or a 5HP motor, and I can run this compressor as low as 400 RPM's (giving 7.0 ACFM at 175PSI) up to 1060 RPM's (giving 18.30 ACFM at 175PSI), so a VFD is absolutely perfect to dial down the power on this compressor, since today my small Eaton compressor gives me about 6-7 CFM at 100PSI or so.

Since I only have single phase 220, so to give this motor a true 5HP capability I would need to buy the 10HP VFD, which then when derated for single phase input would give the proper current to run at 5HP. However, I don't want to run the compressor at 5HP, and in fact I want to run it at the lower end of the compressor's RPM range (500-600 RPM), so running it at around 3HP should be about perfect. I just need to discuss it some more with Barry before I buy the VFD.

Will


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## daytec

like altlas said dont waaste money on an vfd ,just prpoperly size an ac motor {baldor} and the oil trpa is doing what it supposed to do....marty 




[baldor]


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## precisionworks

> I would not waste the effort on a VFD, Just find a Single phase motor for it.



5hp 1ph motors are available ... but cheap they aren't. $400 is the low end for a Baldor on eBay.

A 5hp motor draws about 25 FLA @ 240v, which means about 125-150A starting surge. With a smaller service panel (like Will has) the breaker will trip before the motor ever reaches speed.



> I can run this compressor with either a 3HP or a 5HP motor


3hp 3ph motors are cheap on eBay, and 3hp VFDs that take 1ph input are inexpensive as well - less than the cost of a 5hp 1ph motor. Even with "only" 3hp, the pump should make about 12 scfm. If more air is needed in the future, a 5hp motor can replace the 3hp.

The color of that Quincy is all wrong for your shop - really clashes with your lathe & mill. Bolt it to a pallet & I'll have a truck get it out of your way :nana:


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## 65535

Nice thing about the VFD is he can keep the stock motor and just only put in 3HP worth of current. If I'm right.


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## StrikerDown

Won't running it a little slower make it a little quieter also?

That was the object of the Eaton IIRC. 

I like the idea it will custom tailor it to your application, you can tweak it to your air demand.


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## 65535

StrikerDown said:


> Won't running it a little slower make it a little quieter also?
> 
> That was the object of the Eaton IIRC.
> 
> I like the idea it will custom tailor it to your application, you can tweak it to your air demand.




Yea you run it slower you keep the heat out and the noise.

Some compressors at low rpms develop an annoying noise from the reed valves, but that is at seriously crawling slow speeds.


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## precisionworks

> he can keep the stock motor and just only put in 3HP worth of current. If I'm right.


You are right 

Whenever a VFD is configured, the motor nameplate information is used to make sure the drive correctly monitors the motor for amp load. A VFD is a NEMA approved motor protection device (overload) ... so the drive is set up using nameplate information from a 3hp motor. If the compressor pump requires more than 3hp, the drive will interpret that as an overload condition & fault out.

If Will needs more air capacity sometime in the future, a 5hp drive that accepts 1ph input (or a 10hp drive that accepts 3ph input) will allow the motor to run at full power for increased air output.


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> You are right
> 
> Whenever a VFD is configured, the motor nameplate information is used to make sure the drive correctly monitors the motor for amp load. A VFD is a NEMA approved motor protection device (overload) ... so the drive is set up using nameplate information from a 3hp motor. If the compressor pump requires more than 3hp, the drive will interpret that as an overload condition & fault out.
> 
> If Will needs more air capacity sometime in the future, a 5hp drive that accepts 1ph input (or a 10hp drive that accepts 3ph input) will allow the motor to run at full power for increased air output.



Thanks. That was what I wanted to confirm: that I could just simply buy a 1ph input, 3HP 3ph output VFD (same exact unit I used in my mill VFD conversion) and drive the 5HP 3ph motor with "only" 3HP by telling the VFD that it has a 3HP motor attached to it. It will run slower and be quieter as well 

Since that part of my "shop" sees a lot of chips/dust I will buy the NEMA4 enclosure just to be safe. I will be ordering this VFD later this morning, but I will still need some help with the wiring, as this compressor is wired with a special relay that takes as inputs the low oil pressure sensor and of course the switch from the regulator. I have to figure out where exactly I put the VFD: after wiring the 5HP motor down from 480V to 240V, do I just simply connect the VFD to the same place 3PH input power used to come into the switch panel that has the relay?

It certainly has to be a little bit more complicated than that, since the way I understood the VFD, it has to be connected directly to the motor. I think I saw some wiring information inside the box. I will certainly take a look. Probably I have to feed the single phase 220V into the box just for the sensors/relay to work, and then wire the VFD directly out to the motor.

Will


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## wquiles

NEMA4 3HP VFD just ordered. The wait begins ...


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## 65535

Check with the manufacture, but it would be my belief that most VFD units are able to have switches wired into the unit to create user modified fault codes. Say the low oil switch goes off the VFD will shut off the motor because it senses the switch tripping.

That's just a theory and what I would want out of a VFD for this application, I mean what else would all those fun screw clamp terminals be used for. 

One thing you really don't want to do is disconnect the motor load from a powered VFD, I'm fairly sure that's bad for the drive, though I imagine most are protected, just not something I would really want to happen.


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## precisionworks

> do I just simply connect the VFD to the same place 3PH input power used to come into the switch panel that has the relay?



No 

That machine has a magnetic starter - motor overload that is used to start the motor & protect the motor. Since the VFD performs both of those functions you'll want to scrap the mag starter ... meaning to physically remove all the wiring that the compressor comes with. Connect the drive directly to the motor, as you would in any VFD installation. Install a disconnect to power up or power down the drive. Figure out if the low oil pressure sensor is NC or NO when there is normal oil pressure & connect the sensor wires to the appropriate logic terminals on the drive. Determine if the pressure switch is NC or NO at high pressure cut off & wire it into the logic terminal to provide a STOP command. Same thing with the low pressure cut in, wired to provide a START command.

Much easier than your mill installation :nana:


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## wquiles

Gotcha - thanks Barry. Hey, at least I asked first, right? 


By the way, I heard back from Quincy and given my serial number they were able to tell me more about this compressor:

******************************************************************************************

These are the notes from the serial number and actual order that was placed in 1-13-2000, just over 10 years ago:

- MODEL QTV-5-60 SIMPLEX TANK MOUNTED UNIT. 

- 5 H.P., 460 VOLT, THREE PHASE, 60 HZ. ODP MOTOR. 

- 60 GALLON VERTICAL AIR RECEIVER. 

- AIR COOLED AFTERCOOLER MOUNTED AND PIPED. 

- MOISTURE SEPARATOR TRAP MOUNTED AND PIPED. 

- LVD DUAL CONTROL. ********* 175 PSI. 

- ELECTRIC TANK DRAIN MOUNTED AND PIPED. 

- LOW OIL LEVEL SHUTDOWN SWITCH, MOUNTED, PIPED, AND WIRED.

- NEMA 1 STARTER MOUNTED AND WIRED. **** LOW OIL LEVEL. ****

- FILTER SILENCER AND INTAKE MUFFLER ****************** 

******************************************************************************************


I asked about the oil/filter I should use and they said:
*************************************************************
Proper oil, would be a SAE rated and proper weight oil. This is based on your usage cycle and environment. 10wt for cold, normal 20wt for most conditions, and 30wt for extreme warm to hot conditions. The replacement air element is recommended to be changed once a year or as needed if in a dirty area. Part 110377E100.

I will send you new updates owner’s manual and parts manual on separate emails.
************************************************************* 


I did get in fact two emails with the separate attachments, and the manual does have all of the electrical diagrams in very good detail. WOW - this is great service for something 10 years old and out of warranty by now :twothumbs

Will


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## precisionworks

They keep records forever ... my oldest Quincy was made during the 1930's or 40's, can't remember which, according to their records. Quincy is a fantastic company to deal with.


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## brickbat

wquiles said:


> ...that I could just simply buy a 1ph input, 3HP 3ph output VFD (same exact unit I used in my mill VFD conversion) and drive the 5HP 3ph motor with "only" 3HP by telling the VFD that it has a 3HP motor attached to it. It will run slower and be quieter as well ...



Um...

Are you planning to change the pulley size on the motor?

As you know, a 3HP VFD will not be able to drive nameplate current into a 5HP motor. With induction motors, torque is related to current, and thus you will not get full torque out of the motor. A compressor is a constant torque load (at least if you run it to rated 175 psi). So, I'm pretty sure you'll need to either reduce the pulley size, or set your pressure switch to about 3/5 of 175 psi.

Compressors take a lot of torque to start. It'll be interesting to see how well a 3HP VFD performs. 

I picked up a 5HP 3-phase compressor for my shop, and just reduced the pulley by about 2/3 and then built a static phase converter. But, I'm cheap, and a 5HP VFD, while nice, seemed like too much money. Course, that's been a few years, and VFDs keep getting cheaper...


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## 65535

brickbat said:


> Um...
> 
> Are you planning to change the pulley size on the motor?
> 
> As you know, a 3HP VFD will not be able to drive nameplate current into a 5HP motor. With induction motors, torque is related to current, and thus you will not get full torque out of the motor. A compressor is a constant torque load (at least if you run it to rated 175 psi). So, I'm pretty sure you'll need to either reduce the pulley size, or set your pressure switch to about 3/5 of 175 psi.
> 
> Compressors take a lot of torque to start. It'll be interesting to see how well a 3HP VFD performs.
> 
> I picked up a 5HP 3-phase compressor for my shop, and just reduced the pulley by about 2/3 and then built a static phase converter. But, I'm cheap, and a 5HP VFD, while nice, seemed like too much money. Course, that's been a few years, and VFDs keep getting cheaper...



That's the beauty of a good VFD with soft start and 3PH, torque will be constant, so even though only producing 3/5 of the nameplate RPM it will have the same torque.

If he got a 3HP motor he would need a new motor pulley to lower the maximum RPM of the pump, but he is effectively doing that with a lower speed from a more powerful motor.

Starting can be an issue, but it shouldn't with the ability to ramp to speed.


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## precisionworks

> you will not get full torque out of the motor.



A 5hp motor powered by a 3hp drive will produce 100% of the torque that a 3hp motor can make. As a general rule, electric motors produce 3 ft/lb of torque per hp (for 1725 rpm motors), so a 3hp motor will make 9 ft/lb of torque. Horsepower is produced in direct proportion to speed, meaning that the speed of this motor will be 3/5 of nameplate. 1725 x 3/5 = 1035 rpm. The 3hp drive will allow the motor to spin at a maximum of 1035 rpm before it faults out on over current, and that motor shaft speed is then reduced 53% by the sheave ratio - making 550 rpm at the pump. If 550 is too high (or makes too much noise), the VFD easily allows dialing down to 400 rpm.

Play with the accel settings & that motor will easily start & run the pump. I'm guessing a 5-10 second accel will work nicely, although a shorter accel might also work.


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## brickbat

precisionworks said:


> A 5hp motor powered by a 3hp drive will produce 100% of the torque that a 3hp motor can make.



I've not seen that feature mentioned in the ABB VFDs I've installed on my tools, 

However, his compressor is set up for the 5HP motor, and requires the torque a 5HP motor delivers. 

A 3HP motor, or as you contend a 5HP motor driven by a 3HP VFD, will produce about 60% of the torque of a 5HP motor.




> The 3hp drive will allow the motor to spin at a maximum of 1035 rpm before it faults out on over current



I disagree.


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## precisionworks

> his compressor is set up for the 5HP motor, and requires the torque a 5HP motor delivers.


Not necessarily, according to every manufacturer of pumps that use dual horsepower ratings. To provide *maximum cfm* requires the maximum rated motor hp. Look up Grainger item 3Z181, which is a pump similar to the one on Will's Quincy. They list these specs:

3hp - 440 pump rpm - 9.7 cfm @ 175 psi

5hp - 710 pump rpm - 16.5 cfm @ 175 psi

A 3hp motor has 3/5 (60%) of the torque of a 5hp motor, and produces 58.8% of the air flow at the same pressure. That same pump, and Will's pump, can run with a 2hp motor at roughly 40% output, or a 1hp motor at 20% ... except that pump up time will be painfully slow 






> The 3hp drive will allow the motor to spin at a maximum of 1035 rpm before it faults out on over current





> I disagree.


Every freq drive is made with components rated to carry a specific amp load. A 3hp drive will carry about 15a at 240v with 1ph input. A 3hp drive will run a 5hp motor at 3hp output (60% of nameplate rpm), or a 10hp motor at 3hp output (30% of nameplate rpm), or a 20hp motor at 3hp output (15% of nameplate rpm). 

Any 3ph motor rated 3hp or larger can be run with a 3hp drive - and it will produce 3hp. The laws of physics are what they are.


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## wquiles

We can disagree all we want, but Quincy technical has verified that was Barry is saying is correct.

My question to Quincy 2) The literature from Quincy states that this compressor can run from either a 3HP or a 5HP motor. The tables that you have show that the QT5-3 (with the 3HP motor) runs the compressor at 583 RPM's, and gives an ACFM of 10.50. The numbers for my QT5-5 (with the 5PH motor) shows the RPM at 942, and output of 16.3 ACFM. Is this difference in RPM created by a change on the main cast irong flywheel, or just by the difference in motor power (meaning that the 3HP motor can't spin the compressor as fast as the 5HP motor)?

=> Their answer: #2) The change in horsepower does affect the output. It does change the compressor RPM and torque applied to perform. Actually the flywheel on the compressor stays the same, and we change the motor pulley to create correct motor hp, versus speed-torque. The 5hp is the most driven to provide the most efficient output. The 3hp is used for smaller and lighter applications.



3) If I do change the motor from the existing 5HP to a 3HP motor, but keeping the current cast iron flywheel that I have now, what would be the output of the compressor if I change the 5HP motor to a 3HP motor. Is it pretty much a ratio of 3/5? So instead of a value of 16.3 ACFM, it would be appro. 9.78 ACFM? Is that right?

=> Their answer: #3) Yes this is correct, the ratio that you suggested is very close. Changing horsepower’s, also will change the performance as far as the CFM and psi output. Normally reducing horsepower means you are looking for less psi and cfm.



So as Barry said, this compressor "will" run from just 3HP, just that it can't give me the rated output a true 5HP would give me, which is "exactly" what I am after: lower CFM/PSI from the max, plus it will run slower and quieter


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## wquiles

I just asked my technical contact at Quincy a point question of what I should expect with the 3HP VFD since I am leaving the 5HP motor in there, and this was the reply I just got:

"Looking at my performance curves, my best estimate for that would be:

Compressor rpm on 3hp motor, and not changing the pulley, should place the compressor about 650 rpms

Which would produce 11.5 @ 175 psi"

Will


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## 65535

wquiles said:


> I just asked my technical contact at Quincy a point question of what I should expect with the 3HP VFD since I am leaving the 5HP motor in there, and this was the reply I just got:
> 
> "Looking at my performance curves, my best estimate for that would be:
> 
> Compressor rpm on 3hp motor, and not changing the pulley, should place the compressor about 650 rpms
> 
> Which would produce 11.5 @ 175 psi"
> 
> Will



Let's just say running it at a paltry 3HP and 650rpms will still produce far more air than your Eaton. So if that was doing fine by you, this will blow you away.

Honestly you have gotten basically the best splash lubricated 5HP compressor made in the last 10 years.

Nice thing about the VFD is you can dial it down to just barely turning over if you only need 1-2CFM to run a mister, and you can do it in the dead of night and no one would be the wiser.

While it's true lower rpms introduce more rotor slip, a Baldor 5HP motor will run lovely at reduced rpms producing the correct torque and speed at the pump with the current pulleys.


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## brickbat

precisionworks said:


> Not necessarily, according to every manufacturer of pumps that use dual horsepower ratings. To provide *maximum cfm* requires the maximum rated motor hp. Look up Grainger item 3Z181, which is a pump similar to the one on Will's Quincy. They list these specs:
> 
> 3hp - 440 pump rpm - 9.7 cfm @ 175 psi
> 
> 5hp - 710 pump rpm - 16.5 cfm @ 175 psi



I agree completely, but would just add that they specify a 4-1/4" sheave for a 3HP system and a 7" sheave for a 5HP system. And that's all I was saying - if you run this size pump with a 3HP motor, you need a smaller sheave.



> A 3hp motor has 3/5 (60%) of the torque of a 5hp motor, and produces 58.8% of the air flow at the same pressure. That same pump, and Will's pump, can run with a 2hp motor at roughly 40% output, or a 1hp motor at 20% ... except that pump up time will be painfully slow



Again, almost completely agree. (most splash-lubed compressors have a minimum speed below which, they won't get lubricated properly.) 





> A 3hp drive will run a 5hp motor at 3hp output (60% of nameplate rpm), or a 10hp motor at 3hp output (30% of nameplate rpm), or a 20hp motor at 3hp output (15% of nameplate rpm).



Here's where I disagree. But, I have an open mind. In my 27 year's of engineering, I've never stopped learning new things. I'd really like to better understand this. If you could point me to any reference showing how this works, I'd appreciate it. Not trying to be snarky - just want to get to the bottom of this.

My understanding up to now has been that torque in an induction motor was related to current. Incidently, I have a few VFDs set up, and when I set their display to show motor current, it doesn't change much as I go from 10% to 150% of speed.


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## brickbat

wquiles said:


> So as Barry said, this compressor "will" run from just 3HP, just that it can't give me the rated output a true 5HP would give me, which is "exactly" what I am after: lower CFM/PSI from the max, plus it will run slower and quieter



Understood. All I was asking was whether you intend to change the motor sheave size...

Congrats, BTW on the Quincy. I stumbled into an old one at an auction. It's a little 2-stage 175 psi, but was powered with a 1 HP motor. The tank was rusted out, so I had to replace that. But talk about beefy, and quiet running. It really sounds sweet. Probably dates from the 60's, and seems to still operate perfectly.


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## wquiles

brickbat said:


> Understood. All I was asking was whether you intend to change the motor sheave size...
> 
> Congrats, BTW on the Quincy. I stumbled into an old one at an auction. It's a little 2-stage 175 psi, but was powered with a 1 HP motor. The tank was rusted out, so I had to replace that. But talk about beefy, and quiet running. It really sounds sweet. Probably dates from the 60's, and seems to still operate perfectly.



No worries dude. It was because of your good questions that I checked with the Quincy guy to clarify that I was keeping the sheave on the 5HP motor and to find out what CFM and PSI to expect. I shared the pictures of the compressor with the Quincy guy and he said this:

"Thank you for response and great photos. The guys here will enjoy, allot of times we do not know where these units end up. 

That thing looks in great shape, for 10 years old. It looks brand new."


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## 65535

brickbat said:


> My understanding up to now has been that torque in an induction motor was related to current. Incidently, I have a few VFDs set up, and when I set their display to show motor current, it doesn't change much as I go from 10% to 150% of speed.




You just said it the current is constant but the voltage and Hz of the motor change.

So torque is constant throughout the rpm range. Resulting in .5HP at 10% and 7.5HP at 150% assuming a 5HP motor.

At 60% rpm (roughly 1,035rpm for a 1725rpm motor) the torque is the same.

HP is a function of torque x rpm
So you have 100% torque. At 60% speed Works out to 60% of nameplate HP.

Since the pump wants a fixed amount of torque to turn over at 175PSI regardless of speed keeping the nameplate torque of the 5HP motor and keeping it's speed at 60% produces 175PSI at a 60% CFM figure roughly.


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## brickbat

65535,

Maybe we can put a few numbers to the problem and see if we are on the same page…

1. Will’s compressor was set up with a 5 HP motor, and presumably needs all the torque the 5 HP motor was rated for (at least at 175 psi).

2. Barry says 1750 rpm motors deliver about 3 ft-lb/HP. I agree. So the 5 HP motor was probably supplying about 15 ft-lb of torque when operating the compressor as originally designed by Quincy.

3. Just guessing here, but Will’s 5 HP motor probably has a 7” sheave, and the compressor might be about 16”. So, the torque at the compressor itself is multiplied by this ratio, and ends up at about 34 ft-lb.

4. Will’s 5 HP motor is probably nameplated at around 14 A (when wired for 240V) and would draw that much current when loaded at about 15 ft-lb. Might be a touch higher, as the SF of the motor might be 1.15 or so…

5. If Will was going to install a 3 HP motor, he’d know that it would only be able to supply about 9 ft-lb of torque which, transferred through the 7” and 16” sheave ratio, amounts to only 21 ft-lbs at the compressor. The compressor needs 34 ft-lbs. So, he’d have to change the motor sheave to a smaller diameter, so that the 9 ft-lb of motor torque can be multiplied up to the 34 ft-lbs needed. The compressor would turn at a correspondingly slower speed. The Grainger compressor reference from Barry shows this.

6. Using a VFD to slow the 5 HP motor down to, say 1050 rpm will not affect the torque needed by the compressor by much. It will still need about 34 ft-lb of torque.

7. Will has a 3 HP VFD, presumably rated for around 9 A of motor current.

8. Torque is proportional to current in an induction motor. (If this is in dispute, check any text on AC rotating machines published since the 1930’s)

9. The motor delivers 15 ft-lb at 14 A. At 9 A, it won’t.


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## 65535

brickbat said:


> 65535,
> 
> Maybe we can put a few numbers to the problem and see if we are on the same page…
> 
> 1. Will’s compressor was set up with a 5 HP motor, and presumably needs all the torque the 5 HP motor was rated for (at least at 175 psi).
> 
> Correct as I know it to be from his post.
> 
> 2. Barry says 1750 rpm motors deliver about 3 ft-lb/HP. I agree. So the 5 HP motor was probably supplying about 15 ft-lb of torque when operating the compressor as originally designed by Quincy.
> 
> The number sounds reasonable to me.
> 
> 3. Just guessing here, but Will’s 5 HP motor probably has a 7” sheave, and the compressor might be about 16”. So, the torque at the compressor itself is multiplied by this ratio, and ends up at about 34 ft-lb.
> 
> We just need a reference here, the actual number is relatively unimportant as long as we set a target for the 3HP figure.
> 
> 4. Will’s 5 HP motor is probably nameplated at around 14 A (when wired for 240V) and would draw that much current when loaded at about 15 ft-lb. Might be a touch higher, as the SF of the motor might be 1.15 or so…
> 
> Sounds pretty much spot on.
> 
> 5. If Will was going to install a 3 HP motor, he’d know that it would only be able to supply about 9 ft-lb of torque which, transferred through the 7” and 16” sheave ratio, amounts to only 21 ft-lbs at the compressor. The compressor needs 34 ft-lbs. So, he’d have to change the motor sheave to a smaller diameter, so that the 9 ft-lb of motor torque can be multiplied up to the 34 ft-lbs needed. The compressor would turn at a correspondingly slower speed. The Grainger compressor reference from Barry shows this.
> 
> Correct, he would lower the pump speed to accommodate the lower HP motor.
> 
> 6. Using a VFD to slow the 5 HP motor down to, say 1050 rpm will not affect the torque needed by the compressor by much. It will still need about 34 ft-lb of torque.
> 
> Correct.
> 
> 7. Will has a 3 HP VFD, presumably rated for around 9 A of motor current.
> 
> 
> 8. Torque is proportional to current in an induction motor. (If this is in dispute, check any text on AC rotating machines published since the 1930’s)
> 
> 9. The motor delivers 15 ft-lb at 14 A. At 9 A, it won’t.



I may be off base here, but as I understand it at a given frequency of AC current torque will be directly related to current.

A VFD adjusts frequency to change the speed of the motor. Therefore current requirements differ as well as the voltage.

The important figure should be wattage and HP.

You're argument is completely valid based on what is accepted about current and torque, but I really hope there is something to the frequency vs. torque vs. current that makes your argument false.

And I mean that with no disrespect, it just seems that if the statement was true VFD's wouldn't work like they do. But what do I know I'm just a 19 year old college student.

Back to your regularly scheduled compressor thread.

Can you will me that compressor? When you die and all.


----------



## wquiles

OK, quick update with good news and bad news.

Good news: I got the VFD yesterday (along with a breaking resistor to install in the VFD on the knee mill - I am tripping the VFD fault too often - Barry, I will need your assistance/guidance as I have never used/installed a VFD breaking resistor before).

Bad news: The broken low level oil switch/sensor ended up being a MUCH bigger issue/problem I anticipated. The switch/sensor is actually composed of 2 parts (external and internal), and the internal part (which is the float) is fairly big/long so it will be difficult to impossible to remove without opening the compressor up. Of course, one the sensor is out, I will simply cap it with a 3/4" NPT plug, but they key is to get the sensor out first :naughty:

The good part of these bad news is that the folks at Quincy (again) have been fantastic to deal with, sending me everything imaginable from schematics, photos, images, suggestions, etc.. - I am still completely blown away at their level of support :twothumbs

Here is the detailed schematic of the low level oil switch:
http://m3coupe.com/Quincy/113948_LOL_Switch.tif







Here are the actual pictures of how mine looks like as I was removing it to look at what damage was there:











I drained the oil, and to my surprise it was still looking and smelling like new - beautiful and clean golden color oil - still on the factory fill, since the drain plug was never removed until I did it. I then remove the sensor (external part):











So after discussing with Quincy for the last 2 days, these are my options (in order of difficulty):
1) Try to remove the inner part through the hole. They say it is possible and it has been done before, but not trivial.

2) Remove the upper half of the compressor (6 main bolts), leaving the pistons exposed. Then I would have enough space to barely grab the float and put everything back together. The piston rings would not be a problem according to Quincy since the head has a taper cut in for just this purpose of assembly.

3) Remove the side bearing cover. Easiest access to the float "but" this would be the most critical part to re-assemble due to the machined/fitted surfaces. My Quincy contact advices me to try #2 above before I try this one.

If I have to do 2 or 3, my Quincy guy says he says not to fear since he will walk me through the whole procedure.

So, I will try to find some quality/quiet time over the next couple of days to get the float out through the hole. Of course I first have to disconnect that golden rod from the internal float (it snaps together), so it is not going to be exactly trivial, but I "have" to try that before I pull apart anything on the compressor.

I will let you guys know how it goes 

Will


----------



## 65535

The schematic shows a .9" float and a .8" threaded hole, good luck. Maybe if the threads bite into the float you'd have a decent chance of unscrewing it through the hole.

I'd probably just pull the head off and go in through there.


----------



## StrikerDown

I think I missed something but does the broken part cause oil to leak out of the unit? 

I'm just wondering if it does not leak and it is just the outside electrical parts broken why not leave the float in the pump and just abandon the external electrics?

If it does leak is there a way to plug the leak and leave the parts in?

As far as the oil... A while back you guys were changing oil in something and I started feeling ashamed that my poor little compressor had not seen fresh oil since it was new! I bought the thing shortly after I got married 32 years ago!! I expected to see piston parts or rings or at leats some shavings, but it came out looking just like the compressor oil I bought to replace it with spanking clean, didn't stink or have water or anything. Go figure.


----------



## wquiles

65535 said:


> The schematic shows a .9" float and a .8" threaded hole, good luck. Maybe if the threads bite into the float you'd have a decent chance of unscrewing it through the hole.
> 
> I'd probably just pull the head off and go in through there.


Actually, I also have the detailed drawing of the crankcase and the drill hole on that 3/4-14 NPT hole is actually 0.922", and the contact in Quincy says it is possible (although difficult) to remove the float from the existing hole:
http://m3coupe.com/Quincy/113940.tif

I basically have to at least try it 




StrikerDown said:


> I think I missed something but does the broken part cause oil to leak out of the unit?
> 
> I'm just wondering if it does not leak and it is just the outside electrical parts broken why not leave the float in the pump and just abandon the external electrics?
> 
> If it does leak is there a way to plug the leak and leave the parts in?
> 
> As far as the oil... A while back you guys were changing oil in something and I started feeling ashamed that my poor little compressor had not seen fresh oil since it was new! I bought the thing shortly after I got married 32 years ago!! I expected to see piston parts or rings or at leats some shavings, but it came out looking just like the compressor oil I bought to replace it with spanking clean, didn't stink or have water or anything. Go figure.


The broken part can't cause oil to leak. However, my Quincy contact checked with other departments at Quincy, and the unanimous decision was that it was too risky to leave it there, and that the long term reliability of the compressor is best serve by removal of the internal float, which is what I will do.


----------



## StrikerDown

I guess with what is broken on the outside something on the inside might come loose or float up to high and interfere. Too bad, sounds like a lot of time involved pulling it.


----------



## wquiles

65535 said:


> The schematic shows a .9" float and a .8" threaded hole, good luck. Maybe if the threads bite into the float you'd have a decent chance of unscrewing it through the hole.
> 
> I'd probably just pull the head off and go in through there.



Opps - I checked my own compressor just now, and it looks like mine does not have the .922" hole like it shows in the schematic. The Quincy guy did say that they had moved from the smaller hole for the sensor to the larger one, so I guess my compressor must be old enough to be using the older, smaller hole. So after all, you were correct - I will have to pull out the head!




StrikerDown said:


> I guess with what is broken on the outside something on the inside might come loose or float up to high and interfere. Too bad, sounds like a lot of time involved pulling it.


No kidding - definitely not what I had hopped for :mecry:


----------



## 65535

Chances are it would never be a problem, me personally I hate vestigial parts in my machinery, so the damaged parts would have to go and be replaced in this case with either a new sensor (unlikely as for home use monitoring the oil level is easy enough) a simple 1/2" NPT plug.

To bad I'm not local, I love working on machinery, I'd pull the head for you remove the parts and clean her up while putting her back together.


----------



## wquiles

Quincy got back to me just 20 minutes ago. They are double checking their service files/records, to find out if the float inside is also smaller in dia. He thinks that my older compressor with the smaller 1/2" NPT threaded hole "should" also have a smaller dia float since during installation they normally put in the float through that hole, and then the hold in place from the inside (cylinder/pistons out), while they then attach the float to the external arm/switch enclosure.


----------



## 65535

That would make sense logically, having to attach the float in a separate step from attaching the switch is a bit tedious, on the flip side you couldn't rotate the switch to thread it without screwing up the float's arm I'd think.

At least according to the specs on the picture you posted it is going to have to come out the head for sure.


----------



## wquiles

Well, I am not done with the air plumbing part, but I got the compressor running. I still need to double check the settings (it is not quite running right and/or I got a faulty VFD), but getting closer!

I decided to remove the bearing cover to remove the float:












Here you can see the float:






and as expected, way too big for the threaded hole:






I bolted everything back and torqued the screws per the manual:






The 10 year old filter was full of crap!:











Since the air filter is too close to the rail of the garage door, I relocated it:











On the electrical, per Barry, I started by removing the factory magnetic switch and box:






and replaced it with an ON/OFF switch and the 3HP VFD unit. The switch is on the back:






and the VFD on the front:






Very simple to wire up for the high current stuff:






and for the pressure switch:






As I mentioned above it is running, but I still must have something not quite right on the VFD, so I will try again tomorrow. Plus the pressure switch must have been adjusted to less than 175 PSI since it seems to trigger around 120 PSI or so. Some more tweaking to do 

Will


----------



## darkzero

:twothumbs Looks very clean in there. How does she sound? How's the noise level compared to the Eaton?


----------



## cmacclel

Cool! How is the noise? I have a 7.5hp IR 80 Gallon locally that looks new for $800......but it's 3 phase  26cfm @ 175 PSI!

Mac


----------



## wquiles

darkzero said:


> :twothumbs Looks very clean in there. How does she sound? How's the noise level compared to the Eaton?





cmacclel said:


> Cool! How is the noise?



The noise is not bad, but since the Eaton is enclosed in a steel case with sound-deadening material, the Eaton is still substantially quieter. Don't get me wrong, the Quincy is not a rattler, but the Eaton is just so darn quiet!. Since I should have both running together for a few more days before my neighbor picks up the Eaton, I will take a short video/movie so that you can hear both of them.




cmacclel said:


> I have a 7.5hp IR 80 Gallon locally that looks new for $800......but it's 3 phase  26cfm @ 175 PSI!


The 3-phase is not a problem, as you can see by my VFD conversion, but, for 7.5HP it might require a pretty expensive VFD. You can always try to do what I am doing, which is to run it from less power - at least that's an option


----------



## wquiles

brickbat said:


> I agree completely, but would just add that they specify a 4-1/4" sheave for a 3HP system and a 7" sheave for a 5HP system. And that's all I was saying - if you run this size pump with a 3HP motor, you need a smaller sheave.



That pretty much sums up my current experience/experiments with providing 3HP to the 5HP motor while using the larger sheave on the 5HP motor. It works fine until you get the pressure past 120-130 PSI, and then the motor is demanding more current than what it can receive from the 3HP VFD, to the VFD trips an over current fault and stops. Nothing damaged thanks to the VFD's built-in control/safety limits, but clearly the sheave on the 5HP motor is not efficient enough when driving it with 3HP.

I talked to Quincy and they recommended I use a 3 1/2" OD sheave on the motor which is what they use when running the compressor from 3HP. If I am running the VFD at 100% (motor running at 60Hz or 1750 RPMs) this will them give me 450 RPM's at the pump (min is 400 RPM, so it should still be OK/safe), and it will give me 9cfm at 175 PSI. The 4" sheave would give me even more cfm, but I ordered the 3 1/2" sheave since when to my current Eaton, that output at 3HP is still pretty awesome. If I need to run the compressor a tad faster I can always increase the Hz/RPM's slightly, but this should be fine 

The new sheave was only about $18, so very cheap and it will be easy to change and try out. I am now waiting for the sheave to arrive. I took some video of the Eaton, and some of the Quincy at 30Hz, 36Hz, and 60Hz (this all with the 7" OD motor pulley), but I will wait until I get the smaller sheave to have all recordings back to back so that you guys can hear/compare.

A couple of things to note so far now that I have it running:
- somebody had lower the max. pressure - maybe down to 130-140 PSI.
- the original fittings on the compressor are in great shape after 10 years. After pressurizing to about 100 PSI, after 12 hours I had only lost 3-4 PSI, which to me is amazing given all of the factory installed options and additional pipes involved in this particular configuration.
- now that I removed the cover on the intercooler is that the difference in the temp of the pipe going into the intercooler and leaving the intercooler is fairly substantial, one being "very" warm, while the other was much colder. I will soon try to get some measurements with an infrared meter to provide some objective measurements 

Will


----------



## wquiles

Talk about fast shipping ... got the 3 1/2" sheave today :thumbsup:


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## StrikerDown

wquiles said:


> Talk about fast shipping ... got the 3 1/2" sheave today :thumbsup:



Sheesh, are they next door!


----------



## wquiles

StrikerDown said:


> Sheesh, are they next door!



I ordered from Motion Industries (thanks Barry!) and this particular one came from their stock in Kansas. I ordered Monday and it arrived today - not bad.

The only bad news is that according to my Quincy contact I "have" to remove the air intercooler to have access to remove/open the metal cage to change the pulley/sheave and the belt (since I will need a shorter belt). Definitely not fun :mecry:


----------



## 65535

wquiles said:


> I ordered from Motion Industries (thanks Barry!) and this particular one came from their stock in Kansas. I ordered Monday and it arrived today - not bad.
> 
> The only bad news is that according to my Quincy contact I "have" to remove the air intercooler to have access to remove/open the metal cage to change the pulley/sheave and the belt (since I will need a shorter belt). Definitely not fun :mecry:




Shouldn't be too bad, probably an hour worth of work.


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## precisionworks

> remove the air intercooler to have access to remove/open the metal cage to change the pulley/sheave and the belt


Easily done, even with your camera in one hand and a coffee cup in the other :eeksign:


----------



## wquiles

So basically remove the compression fitting on each end, and remove the mounting/holding brackets and the intercooler comes off? Anything else I need to worry about?

Those compression fittings have been there for 10 years and seem to be still air tight. When I pull those apart, do I need to lightly lube the rubber material inside to make sure they are still pliable and will re-seal? I guess it would not hurt to use some Teflon tape on the threads, right?

I already have a Power Twist "B" size belt long enough for the job, so I think I am ready


----------



## 65535

Unless they aren't standard compression fittings they shouldn't have or need rubber seals, the threads won't need teflon tape, though it may help keep them from seizing. Might just use anti-seize instead.

Maybe give Quincy a call to see if they are some type of compression fitting with rubber seals, but none I've seen have rubber fittings, especially on a compressor considering potential 200-500F exhaust temps.


----------



## wquiles

65535 said:


> Unless they aren't standard compression fittings they shouldn't have or need rubber seals, the threads won't need teflon tape, though it may help keep them from seizing. Might just use anti-seize instead.
> 
> Maybe give Quincy a call to see if they are some type of compression fitting with rubber seals, but none I've seen have rubber fittings, especially on a compressor considering potential 200-500F exhaust temps.



I contacted them - they don't use rubber seals. My contact said:
"Just when you re-use, do not over tighten and crush the copper tube, turn until snug and then ¼ turn"


----------



## 65535

Sounds about right, good luck, should only take all of 1 hour 1.5hours with all the pics you're taking right?


----------



## wquiles

65535 said:


> Sounds about right, good luck, should only take all of 1 hour 1.5hours with all the pics you're taking right?



Yup, the picture taking does slow things a little, but I will document as always


----------



## wquiles

Well, I decided on not removing the air cooler. Instead I fabricated a small swing out door, which came really handy as I had to try a couple of things and it was nice just opening the door :twothumbs

Here is before I started:






Hole made:






Removing the large motor sheave:






Comparing the new "small" sheave to the large/original one:






Everything back together - the springs keep everything in tension for zero rattles 






The video recorder in my digital camera does not properly capture the quality/nuisances of these compressors (both Eaton and Quincy), and makes some sounds (metalics) louder than in real life, but here are the 3 videos that I promised:

1) Eaton Oil-less Medical Air Compressor in Sound Proof Steel Case (1.5 - 2HP):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COHs4uYUWG8

2) Quincy QT-5, 3HP, Large Motor Pulley - about 800 RPM compressor speed at 1750 RPM motor speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXm-pBA3ti4

3) Quincy QT-5, 3HP, Small Motor Pulley - about 450 RPM compressor speed at 1750 RPM motor speed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuI1OkQv4GE


Right now I got the compressor's pressure switch working at 150-155 PSI (high) and about 110-115 PSI (low), and I have the external pressure regulator set to 110 PSI. 

I have the motor Hz to about 65 Hz (nominal is 60Hz) as it seems slightly quieter/smoother. The VFD correctly starts the motor (5 second acceleration) as soon as power is applied, shuts down as soon as it hits the high pressure point, and re-starts automatically when the low pressure point is hit, so the VFD part is done.

I took some temp measurements today. The garage is right now fairly "cool" at 55F, and after a couple of runs on the compressor, as soon as it hit the 150-155 PSI mark and the motor stopped, I measured 167F at the output of the second stage, right at the threads on the compressor head (which feeds a tube to the air cooler) and then measures 67F at the output of the air cooler as the tube reaches the side water accumulator, before entering the tank. I would say that the air cooler seems to work OK :thumbsup:

I am hoping to bolt/secure it tomorrow Sunday to start real work/duty


----------



## brickbat

Nice. So now with the smaller sheave, how much motor current is your VFD displaying at, say 150 psi? And what was it with the larger original sheave at 150 psi?


----------



## wquiles

brickbat said:


> Nice. So now with the smaller sheave, how much motor current is your VFD displaying at, say 150 psi? And what was it with the larger original sheave at 150 psi?



With the large sheave it was tripping at the max the VFD can give (for its 3HP rating) which was something like 9.2 Amps, and that was down in the 110-120 PSI range. Even now at 150-155 PSI it is not tripping at all now, so of course the draw has to be less than 9.2 Amps, but I don't know exactly how many amps since I have not tried setting up the display to show running amps. I will try to remember and report back what is the current 3-phase amp draw now that I am using the smaller sheave.


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## 65535

If you can pull the amps off the 220V 1Ph input you could roughly calculate the output amps.


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## wquiles

I just checked (on the VFD diagnostic's menu you can show pretty much any value in real time) - the amperage right as it stops at 150-155 PSI was 7.4Amps.


----------



## brickbat

Thanks, Will. That makes sense. It looks to me as if your motor sheave is about 1/2 the diameter of the original one, so your motor sees about 1/2 the torque load as the original design. And it seems like your motor current is now about half of nameplate as well.

I suppose you could run the motor a bit faster if you wanted, or run the pressure up a tad higher with your setup. But unless you need the extra air storage, I think you're wise to run the pressure on the low side. It's still plenty high to regulate down to 100 psi or so, and puts a little less stress on the pump.

One interesting option on a VFD-powered compressor would be to have a higher speed mode that was automatically selected if the tank pressure dropped below, say, 100 psi. That way, in normal day-to-day use, the machine would run at a nice non-nerve jarring speed. But, if you were using a lot of air and the tank pressure dropped, the motor would bump up to the higher speed. 

The VFD is perfect for this, since it can operate the motor at a higher speed if the torque load is low, which it would be when the tank pressure is lower...


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## 65535

That would be slick. Pressure switch 1 trips at 120 psi runs compressor at 50-75%. switch 2 trips at 110 psi runs compressor at 100%. I guess both would reset at 150psi?


----------



## wquiles

Right now I am just using one pressure switch input (logic level) but the VFD I got does support up to 3 different set points in my specific model. There is also a mode for constant torque that I have not played with - I wonder if that would adjust the speed automatically as well within a specific range ...

By the way, although it will change somewhat in the new week or two, here is a quick shot of the regulator (with a built-in small filter), which is set to 110psi to help protect the sub-micron second stage filter that can only take 125psi max:







Will


----------



## precisionworks

> There is also a mode for constant torque that I have not played with - I wonder if that would adjust the speed automatically


In CT mode, which is used for just a few limited applications, speed can be anywhere in the range of the VFD but torque stays exactly the same. An example of a CT app is winding wire on a large drum. When the wire starts winding on the small diameter core, speed runs high so the tension on the wire is correct. As the core is covered & diameter increases, speed drops to keep tension on the wire at the same setting.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> In CT mode, which is used for just a few limited applications, speed can be anywhere in the range of the VFD but torque stays exactly the same. An example of a CT app is winding wire on a large drum. When the wire starts winding on the small diameter core, speed runs high so the tension on the wire is correct. As the core is covered & diameter increases, speed drops to keep tension on the wire at the same setting.



Couldn't then I use the CT mode (along with setting min and max Hz values) to take advantage of the lower load on the motor when the tank is low on air to run the motor somewhat faster (say up to 90Hz) and then have the motor slow down (say 65Hz) as soon as more torque is demanded? Do I need to then program some "desired" torque value/target which will then be adjusted accordingly to the hi/low Hz values?


----------



## brickbat

That sound like the optimum approach. I'm interested to hear how it works. BTW what VFD are you using? I'd like to read up on the CT mode, as none of the drives I've used have it...


----------



## precisionworks

> Couldn't then I use the CT mode (along with setting min and max Hz values)


The CT mode over rides all speed settings, and speed control becomes secondary to torque control. Compressor output is a function of pump speed (assuming that torque is adequate to operate the pump at all desired speeds). 

Newer compressors, especially newer rotary screws, use a PLC to ramp up or ramp down the pump speed as demand increases or decreases. The PLC is programmed using a comparator function, where actual pressure is compared to desired (setpoint) pressure. There are a number of inexpensive PLC's available today that will do this, and most have a pressure sensor module as an option. Or you can find a used A-B SLC-500 on eBay.

Without a PLC, I'm not sure that you can ramp up or ramp down unless you can find a differential pressure transducer that has a 4-20 mA output. They are available, but cost nearly as much as a low priced PLC.


----------



## wquiles

wquiles said:


> Couldn't then I use the CT mode (along with setting min and max Hz values) to take advantage of the lower load on the motor when the tank is low on air to run the motor somewhat faster (say up to 90Hz) and then have the motor slow down (say 65Hz) as soon as more torque is demanded? Do I need to then program some "desired" torque value/target which will then be adjusted accordingly to the hi/low Hz values?





brickbat said:


> That sound like the optimum approach. I'm interested to hear how it works. BTW what VFD are you using? I'd like to read up on the CT mode, as none of the drives I've used have it...



Well, I am going to answer my own question: Yes, I can set it up for CT control, and it does work exactly like I expected, with full torque instead of speed control - in fact I had to turn down the default torque of 100% down to 80% as it was just simply too much torque to get started. However, as Barry mentions above, in this mode I lost all slow acceleration and ramp - it starts at full torque, at the max speed, so there is always a trade-off. I am back to speed control since it gives the motor/pump an easier, longer life :devil:.

The drive I am using is the AC Tech SMVector Drive, in a NEMA 4x Enclosure, which I got from these guys:
http://www.wolfautomation.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=22376

Will


----------



## precisionworks

> in this mode I lost all slow acceleration and ramp


Been there, done that

Most VFD's in a factory are PLC controlled - very few are installed in a stand alone configuration. That's the main reason that there are so many options for external control connection. You can make the drive do exactly what you want, and it isn't difficult, but that requires supplying the drive with enough information so that the drive reacts the way you want.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> Been there, done that
> 
> Most VFD's in a factory are PLC controlled - very few are installed in a stand alone configuration. That's the main reason that there are so many options for external control connection. You can make the drive do exactly what you want, and it isn't difficult, but that requires supplying the drive with enough information so that the drive reacts the way you want.



It was a good learning experience 

I actually used the compressor for real last night on a "job", and the larger capacity tank (stored at a higher pressure) does help a lot - I was able to complete on Mag 1xD re-thread job without the compressor turning on at all. In the past, with the Eaton and the 20 Gal tank, it would turn on at least 2-3 times. I later then keep working on a tailcup mod (internal boring) and the compressor finally came ON, but because of the slow-start, it took me a few seconds to realize the compressor was running at all - basically the actual noise of the air nozzle from the Accu-Lube lubrication system was drowning the Quincy compressor running at 65Hz. Maybe not as quiet as the Eaton, but this will do just fine


----------



## precisionworks

> was able to complete on Mag 1xD re-thread job without the compressor turning on at all.


You gotta love that 

My three 60 gallon tanks all feed the same trunk line, and that line plus hoses is over 20 gallons of volume, so there are times that none of the three kick on. The first to start (about 100 psi turn on pressure) is located farthest from the machine room. The second compressor kicks in when pressure drops to 95 psi, but it's one room away & still quiet enough. Compressor #3 starts if the pressure drops to 90 psi, which happens two or three times a year, mostly when testing an air tool with a 50 cfm (or larger) motor. 

When I win PowerBall, I'll buy three compressors like the one you have


----------



## 65535

If you win PowerBall you might as well buy a nice 15-50HP (depending on what you need/want) Quincy Rotary Screw. .

Then again at the theatre We have a 50HP Rotary Screw, dryer, filters, 250gallon holding tank.  Never run out of air.

Too bad it isn't a Quincy.


----------



## precisionworks

> 50HP Rotary Screw, dryer, filters, 250gallon holding tank.


I worked at a factory that covered about 10 acres (4 hectares). Only one shift ran, from about 0400 until 1500. At the end of the shift the big compressors were shut down and the little 50hp screw ran all night to keep up with leaks & keep the lines pressurized to about 90 psi.

The fastest way to get a trip to the plant manager's office was to forget to kick on the 50 before leaving for the day  Even a 200+100 (300 total hp) would take over an hour to pump up the lines from zero pressure.


----------



## 65535

That's sick, 50HP worth of leaks. I hate leaks in my air systems, I always seal them up tight.


----------



## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> I worked at a factory that covered about 10 acres (4 hectares). Only one shift ran, from about 0400 until 1500. At the end of the shift the big compressors were shut down and the little 50hp screw ran all night to keep up with leaks & keep the lines pressurized to about 90 psi.
> 
> The fastest way to get a trip to the plant manager's office was to forget to kick on the 50 before leaving for the day  Even a 200+100 (300 total hp) would take over an hour to pump up the lines from zero pressure.



OK, ok - enough talk about my tank is bigger than your tank 

Guess what? After 10 years the Pneumatic tank drain still works great - all too well !!!
I had to capture a LOT of water that was there!






So I put an adapter and a hose:






I also had the 120V automatic drain on the bottom of the tank, but it was LOUD as heck, so I removed it and put a simple ball valve and a hose:






Both hoses feed to the grass outside the garage door:






Will


----------



## precisionworks

> I hate leaks in my air systems, I always seal them up tight.


I tried to show the plant manager the cost of running that compressor during down time, but he felt the effort to stop the leaks (hundreds if not thousands) was not worth the savings :shakehead


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## wquiles

Just finished getting the compressor mounted/bolted down.

I am using 3 concrete screws to prevent the base from "walking" and wanting to rotate, and on those three ears I am using vibration/isolation pads that Campbell Hausfeld sells just for this exact use (although the kit comes with 4 and I am only using 3):












And then to make "sure" it can't tip over and cause any harm/damage, I got this strap which is bolted to studs on the wall:











Will


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## precisionworks

> using 3 concrete screws to prevent the base from "walking" and wanting to rotate,


As long as the bolts are not tight to the mounting pads, your installation is fine. Tight bolts will cause one or more pads to eventually shear off ... here's a quote from an Atlas Compressor manual:



> For permanent installation, the ATLAS air compressor may be bolted to the floor.
> *BE CAREFUL NOT TO BOLT DOWN ALL THE LEGS TOO TIGHTLY!*
> Shims or vibration pads must be used to level the compressor before bolting it to the floor. When an air compressor “starts”, the entire unit begins to “vibrate”. This movement is normal. If all the legs are bolted tightly to the floor, the “vibration” of the air compressor (either starting or stopping) may damage a “bolted down” leg. Greg Smith Equipment recommends the use of vibration dampener pads to be placed between the bottom of the foot and the concrete floor. These vibration pads allow the air compressor to “shake” during the start up and run time without causing any damage to the receiver feet.


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## wquiles

I used compression washers to get things tight, but not enough to prevent some very slight movement - I felt that if they were too tight, the compressor would eventually get the screws loose. The rubber pads also help in allowing some slight rocking/shaking while the compressor is running, and it also makes things quieter - before I used the pads you could feel the vibrations on the concrete floor. 

Still, it was because this slight movement possible between the rubber pads and the washers that I decided to add the strap as a secondary holding method in case the screws do get loose in the future: I have two small kids and I did not want to take any chances with this top-heavy 600+ pounds compressor.


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## precisionworks

> I did not want to take any chances with this top-heavy compressor



Reminds me of the time we first moved into this area & I drove to Home Depot & picked up a 60 gallon vertical compressor. They loaded it into the bed of the pickup & I proceeded to try to drive under a low bridge ... only the pump & motor struck the bridge, but it made an awful sound as it hit the tail gate 

Because of purchase protection from Mastercard, the purchase price was refunded in full & the next one went home in the horizontal position


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## StrikerDown

precisionworks said:


> ... only the pump & motor struck the bridge, but it made an awful sound as it hit the tail gate



One of those  moments!

Something you can look back at and  (maybe if you're sick in the head)

I think they shipped it to Kalifornia and I saw it at Home D the other day!


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## wquiles

Quick update for those following this thread ...

The compressor has been working flawlessly. Quiet and smooth, with very little vibration.

I have been checking the output filer (Motor Guard) and it is almost always dry.

The outlet max temperature is still cool enough to keep my hand on the tubing right after it stops running, and the output tube that comes from the inter-cooler to the tank is always at about room temperature. 

The only way I have managed to get the output tubing to get really hot, it to manually force the compressor to run 3 times in a row (by venting the tank's air). At an ambient of about 80-85F, I managed to get the output tubing to reach 216F, but the output tube from the inter-cooler was a much cooler 92F - those inter-coolers DO work !!!


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## tino_ale

wquiles, I see you are using a motor guard. Are you also using a water trap ? an oil trap ?

Oil trap. Water trap. Filter. Motor guard. I am confused as to what does what (does a water trap filter oil and fine particles too ?) and what is needed for which application.

Anyone care enlighting me ?

Also, in which CFM rating should you get these filters/traps to make sure you are not slowing your air tools ?

Thanks


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## wquiles

Tino,

My Quincy came with an air cooled aftercooler which drops down significantly the air temperature, which helps a lot in getting the water in the air condensed quickly. After the aftercooler, the air goes into a moisture separator, which automatically releases water once it is "full" (I have this draining to outside the garage):






Then the air goes into the 60 gal tank where it further condenses the water, which then precipitates down to the bottom of the tank where every other day or so I then purge out via its own separate drainage hose:






The output of the tank goes into a 3/4" ball valve - this is my main ON/OFF into the "shop", and the compressor/tank is in great shape since it can keep 160 PSI for many, many days in a row. The output of this main valve varies between a high of about 160psi (compressor turns off) and a low of about 115 psi (compressor turns on). Since most tools have a max. of 120PSI, I have a regulator set to 110psi, which then feeds my Motor Guard Air Filter (this regulator also has a built-in water separator, that drains automatically every time pressure drops to near zero PSI). The air then goes to several "T"'s and additional ball valves to the various places in my shop:






So far since I got the compressor running earlier this year, I have never gotten the Motor Guard filter wet, not even moist to the touch, although I keep swapping it for another one every week or two. So at least for my particular "low" usage, the whole system of the aftercooler & moisture separator is doing a very good job in trapping most of the water inside the tank 

Will


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## tino_ale

wquiles,

Thanks for the very informative post. It's a pretty serious installation you have there.

The best bang for the buck I can get here is a 24 gallon 3HP running on standard 240V, rated to 9CFM at 100psi... goes up to 145 psi. I don't know if two cylinder necesseraly mean two stages but it's a twin cylinder anyway, running at 950rpm with a pulley. edit : it is actually the motor that runs at 950, apparently, I don't know what's the rpm of the pump.

It is 350 euros ($450 at this time). If I want bigger, it is much cheaper to get two of these and pipe them together because a 50 gallon 6HP is simply more than double this price.

Anyway, I am still wondering if a water trap is a good enough particles filter to forget about the motor guard. I am also wondering how a water trap element works to remove moisture from air ?? Unless the filter is cooled by an active mean I don't see why the moisture would condense on it after any significant amount of time.


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## 65535

Most moisture traps use a vortex/centrifuge action. The heavier water molecules collect on the walls of the moisture trap while the air flows through the trap. They don't remove all the moisture, but it helps to keep the motor guard filter dryer and is a marked improvement over nothing.


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## wquiles

tino_ale said:


> wquiles,
> 
> Thanks for the very informative post. It's a pretty serious installation you have there.
> 
> The best bang for the buck I can get here is a 24 gallon 3HP running on standard 240V, rated to 9CFM at 100psi... goes up to 145 psi. I don't know if two cylinder necesseraly mean two stages but it's a twin cylinder anyway, running at 950rpm with a pulley. edit : it is actually the motor that runs at 950, apparently, I don't know what's the rpm of the pump.
> 
> It is 350 euros ($450 at this time). If I want bigger, it is much cheaper to get two of these and pipe them together because a 50 gallon 6HP is simply more than double this price.


Sounds like a good buy 





tino_ale said:


> Anyway, I am still wondering if a water trap is a good enough particles filter to forget about the motor guard. I am also wondering how a water trap element works to remove moisture from air ?? Unless the filter is cooled by an active mean I don't see why the moisture would condense on it after any significant amount of time.


In my humble opinion, No. You still want a good filter like the Motor Guard that I have.

Maybe Barry has additional advice/suggestions?


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## tino_ale

Thanks, any additional input appreciated.

I think I got the pump/motor rpm backwards. 950 for the motor sound too low, considering there is a significant rpm reducing factor with the pulley. It must be a 1750rpm motor and 950rpm pump.

It's the best bang for the buck I've found but it's guaranteed chinese made. Definetely mile away from your Quincy quality and finish...

Also I am not sure I can thrust the claimed CFM at 100psi.

Darn I should consider the motor guard. :green:


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## wquiles

tino_ale said:


> Anyway, I am still wondering if a water trap is a good enough particles filter to forget about the motor guard. I am also wondering how a water trap element works to remove moisture from air ?? Unless the filter is cooled by an active mean I don't see why the moisture would condense on it after any significant amount of time.



I have what I have by following Barry's advice and it is working extremely well. My 2 cents worth is that the water trap does help but that it is not good enough. You really should also have a filter similar to the Motor Guard as well. I am using the M-60 filter, which is the one Barry recommended, even though it is a little bit of an overkill in my setup (this filter can maintain 100 CFM at 80 PSI !!!). The M-30 is probably more than adequate (45 CFM) and should be more affordable as well.


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## precisionworks

> I am also wondering how a water trap element works to remove moisture from air ??



There are quite a few ways to eliminate or reduce moisture in a compressed air system. The easiest plug-n-play system is a refrigerated dryer. It lowers the temp of the incoming air below the dew point, so that the air cannot carry that moisture down the line to the point of use. Once the dew point temp is reached, the water vapor can no longer remain in suspension - it condenses out as liquid water droplets which are collected & drained. New ones are pricey but used ones go cheap. http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...cm_ite=1592072?ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=1592072

If you don't want to spend that much, there are a number of shop built solutions that will reduce air moisture. The first place to trap & drain water is the air receiver tank, and making an *air-to-air intercooler* lowers the temperature dramatically:






Nothing fancy, just copper tubing from the hardware store, inserted between the pump & the tank. The single best thing you can do to trap moisture at the source.

Next is an *air-to-air aftercooler *which can be built with a series of pipes & drains:











Next add a 5 micron filter-regulator, followed by a coalescing filter, followed by a desiccant bed filter.

Put a MotorGard on last & you're ready to roll


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## wquiles

Although I don't have much oil in the air supply currently, since I am doing powder coating now (and hope to "play" with other coatings later) I installed an coalescent oil filter to my main air line coming out of my Quincy. 

Per Barry's advice, the air from tank goes to regulator, then oil filter, and then the M-60 sub-micron air filter:


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## tino_ale

It is unclear to me why the water trap is not _before _the regulator instead of _after _? My reasonning is that a regulator could suffer from a wet air.

Another thing that I've read is that you should pipe your water trap as far away from the compressor as possible, because the trap will more efficient with cold air. And the further away from the compressor, the coller the air...

So unless I got it wrong, I would pipe the systems as follow :

compressor > long pipe (for cooling down) > water trap > regulator > oil trap > Moror guard

A small air reserve of several liters piped after the regulator would also improve air regulation, acting as a buffer and dampering air demand.

Then you'd have :
compressor > long pipe (for cooling down) > water trap > regulator > small air tank > oil trap > Moror guard

What you think ?


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## wquiles

tino_ale said:


> It is unclear to me why the water trap is not _before _the regulator instead of _after _? My reasonning is that a regulator could suffer from a wet air.
> 
> Another thing that I've read is that you should pipe your water trap as far away from the compressor as possible, because the trap will more efficient with cold air. And the further away from the compressor, the coller the air...
> 
> So unless I got it wrong, I would pipe the systems as follow :
> 
> compressor > long pipe (for cooling down) > water trap > regulator > oil trap > Moror guard
> 
> A small air reserve of several liters piped after the regulator would also improve air regulation, acting as a buffer and dampering air demand.
> 
> Then you'd have :
> compressor > long pipe (for cooling down) > water trap > regulator > small air tank > oil trap > Moror guard
> 
> What you think ?



I have seen air system setups that follow exactly what you show, but I was lucky that my Quincy came with the fan-cooled intercooler and water trap already built-in, which makes for a very efficient setup. The way Quincy did the intercooler, they put it right in front of the main flywheel, and gave the flywheel "fan" blades so as it rotates it creates a strong air flow right into the intercooler, accelerating the cooling of the air before it enters the water trap:






The air from the output of the intercooler then feeds this water trap, before entering the tank (the clear hose is for the automatic drain - it purges the water out automatically once it is full):






Without the intercooler and water trap, you would then need the long pipe what you mentioned (like what Barry has implemented in his shop) to give chance for the air to cool down so that moisture/water would no longer by suspended in the air. My system currently looks like this:

compressor - intercooler (cools air) - water trap - air tank - regulator - oil filter - final filter

I will be the first to admit that my setup is not be ideal, but it seems to be working extremely well for me as I found out already by checking the state of my M-60 filter for many months now, there is no water getting into my shop's air, and if there is some, the amount is very small and it is being trapped by the M-60 filter. Adding the oil filter is just additional insurance since I am now doing powder coating (and for future painting) to make sure I don't have any tiny amounts of oil still in the air supply.

EDIT: I forgot to add that at the end of each air output on my shop, I have an air regulator with those built-in small plastic vortex-based water traps. So far they are all dry.

Will


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## tino_ale

The fact that your vortex air trap at the very end of your air line remain dry sound like a good indicator that your air is very dry when it powers your tools.

Honestly I wonder if your motor guard would not already filter out tiny oil particles in your air but I see you are a better-safe-than-sorry kind of guy and it sure won't hurt :thumbsup:

I've seen under your blasting cabin that you do have a few spare motor guard filter :devil:


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## 65535

tino_ale said:


> The fact that your vortex air trap at the very end of your air line remain dry sound like a good indicator that your air is very dry when it powers your tools.
> 
> Honestly I wonder if your motor guard would not already filter out tiny oil particles in your air but I see you are a better-safe-than-sorry kind of guy and it sure won't hurt :thumbsup:
> 
> I've seen under your blasting cabin that you do have a few spare motor guard filter :devil:



Having a final stage filter that normally comes out clean when opened up is always good. That tells you there is absolutely NOTHING in your air that would harm your paint, media blasting, or tools.


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## wquiles

Thanks, I feel better. By the way, this is a photo of the regulator/filters at the end of the lines (one set to 45 PSI the other to about 60 PSI). The valve with the red cover can kill the access locally, which is great since the the orange air line comes from the other side of the garage and it is set to about 105-110 PSI:


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## precisionworks

Nice set up, Will 

Just one thought for anyone piping an air system ... use black pipe (steel pipe) instead of the other available choices. It lasts forever, cools well, seals easily with Teflon tape, can be modified as long as unions are used, etc.

Any type of plastic, whether PVC pipe or plastic air hose, will fail eventually. Failure may mean nothing more than continuous running of the compressor, or someone may lose an eye if standing near a PVC pipe when it grenades. 

Run black pipe, sleep well


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## precisionworks

As a side note, I bought (actually traded for) one more compressor for the shop, giving a total of four 

The compressor is an I-R SS3L3: http://www2.northerntool.com/air-compressors/electric-powered-air-compressors/item-1592027.htm

Home shop use for over ten years, and it has a defective valve plate ... got the compressor for $200 plus another $100 for the valve plate kit from the local I-R distributor. Traded an Aloris AX tool post plus holders plus tools, some 5C collets, and a Dorian 5C AXA tool block, so came out OK.

All four compressors combined provide just over 40 scfm & about 300 gallons air storage (including a couple hundred feet of black iron air pipe). Should be able to run a few larger air tools


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> All four compressors combined provide just over 40 scfm & about 300 gallons air storage



Very impressive. I am content for now with the CFM from the Quincy, but would love to double my tank capacity, so I look at the local craig's list from time to time to see if I get lucky enough to pick up a tank from an used compressor on the cheap


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## precisionworks

> would love to double my tank capacity


Quite a few people use a propane(LPG) tank, as these tanks are ASME rated for 250 psi. My local propane dealer sells tanks for the following prices:

120 gallon @ $579
250 gallon @ $849
500 gallon @ $1249

They do not come with a drain fitting, so you'll have to have a bung fitting welded in by an AWS certified (structural steel) welding shop. An ASME approved pressure relief valve (plus a pressure gage) will need to be added. It's the least expensive way I know to buy a new tank.

Matt at Eaton Compressor can probably provide an 80g or 120g air receiver (that already has the drain & ASME relief valve) for about the same money.


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## wquiles

precisionworks said:


> Quite a few people use a propane(LPG) tank, as these tanks are ASME rated for 250 psi. My local propane dealer sells tanks for the following prices:
> 
> 120 gallon @ $579
> 250 gallon @ $849
> 500 gallon @ $1249
> 
> They do not come with a drain fitting, so you'll have to have a bung fitting welded in by an AWS certified (structural steel) welding shop. An ASME approved pressure relief valve (plus a pressure gage) will need to be added. It's the least expensive way I know to buy a new tank.
> 
> Matt at Eaton Compressor can probably provide an 80g or 120g air receiver (that already has the drain & ASME relief valve) for about the same money.


 
Well, time to update this thread. Why, because I scored on a 200Gal compressed air tank in very nice condition. Of course, the tank itself is just too darn large to fit inside the garage, so it sits in the backyard, out of view:







Of course, not only getting the tank home a small adventure by itself (it does not quite fit in the trunk of any car!), then goes the challenge of how to connect that enourmous tank to the Quincy QT-5 air compressor to get the most of this new added air storage capacity. So I consulted with my mentor Barry (who else helps me the most to spend my hard earned money!), and he recommended solid piping. So I did (which is the main reason for this post), but here is a little background.

For comparison, from top to bottom: 1", 3/4", 1/2", 3/8", 1/4":






Here comparing 1/4" to 1":






Heck, even just comparing 1/2" to 3/8", to 1/4":





















Bottom line, if I am going to take most advantage of my Quincy compresor (with it's "small" 60 Gal tank) and my new 200 Gal tank, I need large ID diameter between them. So based on Barry's suggestion, I used 1" piping almost everywhere :naughty:

I said almost anywhere since both the Quincy and the new 200-gal tank use 3/4", so I used 1" in between tanks, and 3/4" 2-wire Hydraulic hoses (2000+ PSI rating) to connect the 1" pipe to the tanks:






Then 1" piping to the inside of the garage:






Right at the entrance to the garage, I installed a watter trap to the right of this pictures. The pipe on the above/left is that goes to the external tank. From that "T" I am using another 3/4" flexible hose to get inside the garage:











From there it goes up to another "T". To the left is a valve, that feeds the "high volume air" regulation/filtering station. Going up goes to the Quincy compressor, but I have another valve so that I can disconnect the external tank from the internal tank (Quincy tank):






Another view:






Then the 1" pipe goes the length of my 3-car garage to the other side of the garage where the Quincy compressor sits.
















Note in this one I have a "T" with a future potential extension (right now just caped):






Keeps going and going ...











Here I finally go from 1" to 3/4" to connect to the Quincy compressor - so except for the flow valves, the two tanks are directly connected:











From just outside the Quincy compressor, it then hits my second filtering/regulation station:






And the output here is a single (for now) 1/2" output, which right now feeds standard 3/8" air hoses with 1/4" connectors. This is basically the "low volume" air setup:






OK, lets go back to the "high volume" setup on the opposite side of the garage:






It might not be the ideal order, but I here I have (everything is 1/2") a high pressure coalescing filter, a high pressure air regulator, and a Motor Guard sub-micron filter:





















At the output, I have three connection options:






1/2" output - right now just caped (later to have a valve and a regulator and quick connect)






3/8" output - right now with just a valve (later to have a regulator and quick connect)






1/4" output - with a flow valve and its own regulator











At the very bottom I have a water trap and valve:







Here is how things look with the low volume air hoses connected to the 1/4" output (one at a time):











And when I put the recycling and trash containers in place:











That is all for now - thanks again Barry!


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## precisionworks

Nice job Will :thumbsup:

Hard to beat BIP (black iron pipe) for pressurized air plumbing. Except for the weight, it's easy to work with, cut, thread, couple, etc. There's a couple of hundred feet of BIP in my shop, all 1".


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## wquiles

Thanks. It was time consuming, but worth the effort


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## mljjones67

Thanks for the ideas on how to set my Quincy up. Mine is a older but still in good shape. Need to figure out what VFD I need so I can use the darn thing. Thanks again!!


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## precisionworks

mljjones67 said:


> Thanks for the ideas on how to set my Quincy up. Mine is a older but still in good shape. Need to figure out what VFD I need so I can use the darn thing. Thanks again!!



VFD's work very well with larger 3ph compressors because they can be configured to eliminate inrush surge. I'm guessing that your compressor has a motor 5hp or larger & that you have only 1ph 240v available. In that case take the motor hp times two for correct VFD sizing (5hp motor requires 10hp drive, etc.)

FWIW the mathematical sizing formula is HPx1.73 = minimum VFD size. (The square root of 3 (phases) is 1.73) A 5hp motor requires at least an 8.65hp drive, a 10hp motor needs a 17.30hp drive. For most people it's easier to remember motor hp times two.

One mod that no one here has done is a constant run - variable speed control. To do that the VFD is connected to a PLC that commands the drive to ramp up the motor speed as the line pressure drops (under increasing load) or ramp down the speed as the pressure comes back to set point. Commercial systems use a differential pressure sensor to give the needed info to the PLC & the PLC controls the drive. Many screw compressors are set up this way & it's just as easy to set up a recip. 

Will is the most likely candidate because of his electronics background


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## 350xfire

Will, you must be the HOA's worst nightmarre resident!! lol


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## gt40

Thank you for posting this. I really need to update my air setup and this thread lays it all out. I have a 80 gallon 5 hp setup and it has too much moisture in it...


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## wquiles

350xfire said:


> Will, you must be the HOA's worst nightmarre resident!! lol


Since the compressor is inside the garage, it is not that loud to the neighbors, PLUS, I am running it at "only" 3hp :devil:

Still running like a champ, even after I added that large 200gal storage tank 




gt40 said:


> Thank you for posting this. I really need to update my air setup and this thread lays it all out. I have a 80 gallon 5 hp setup and it has too much moisture in it...


You are welcome


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## tino_ale

Hi all,

I am chewing with the idea of leaving my compressor outside the house under a shelter.
How do you think a compressor would hold when left outside ? That might be the dumbest move but it would clear some space inside my garage, it is temting.
Same question for my blasting cabinet.

thanks for your advise


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## gadget_lover

A longtime ago, it was not uncommon to see compressors outside the shop at places like gas stations and shops. That was the era when you pulled in for gas and 2 or 3 guys pumped the gas, checked the air in the tires, checked the oil and washed the windows.

The outside compressors seldom had more protection than an awning just above the compressor, extending an extra foot or so beyond the actual footprint. Bear in mind that I live near Silicon Valley where we don't have extreme weather. 

Daniel


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## wquiles

tino_ale said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am chewing with the idea of leaving my compressor outside the house under a shelter.
> How do you think a compressor would hold when left outside ? That might be the dumbest move but it would clear some space inside my garage, it is temting.
> Same question for my blasting cabinet.
> 
> thanks for your advise



Daniel makes an excellent point regarding the weather your compressor would see. I for one would be worry if you have cold weather, which would made the oil too thick to "splash" around in the crankcase. I would hate the thought of my twin stage Quincy running "dry" until the oil got warm enough for proper lubrication, which is why my compressor stays inside the garage.

Will


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## precisionworks

wquiles said:


> I for one would be worry if you have cold weather, which would made the oil too thick to "splash" around in the crankcase.



Most of the pumps we run are splash lubricated meaning the crankshaft dunks into the oil pool with each revolution - not elegant but it works. Higher priced pumps are pressure lubed & have an automotive type oil filter. 

Outside location does reduce indoor noise & frees up floor space. In locations where the temps can be very cold it would be easy to install a thermostat controlled heater in the compressor location. Set it to kick on at roughly 40-45F & the compressor should be happy.


----------

