# Thrunite Scorpion V2 (XM-L) + Turbo Head Review: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS and more!



## selfbuilt

*Warning: even more pic heavy than usual. :sweat:*

_*UPDATE JUNE 27, 2011:* Note that there are potential issues with running this light on Max on 2xCR123A. Please see this thread for more info._







Thrunite has just updated their Scorpion model with a new circuit - featuring much higher output, and a revised interface. Let us see how this V2 compares to the original V1 and other members of the class. 

*Specifications:* 
_Where relevant, I’ve updated the specs to reflect the new version_

Cree XM-L (T6) LED 
Uses 2x 3V CR123A batteries (Lithium) or one 18650 rechargeable battery (Li-ion), voltage range 2.7V-8.4V.
*NEW:* The Max current is 3A for 1 minute and then low to 2.5A on 2xCR123A (previous version was 1.5A on Max)
*NEW:* Max initial output: >750 lumens for 2xCR123A, >660 lumens for 1x18650 (previous version was reported as 460 ANSI Lumens)
*NEW:* 2x 3.7V RCR are now explicitly warned against in the manual, due to the high discharge current on Max. 
*NEW:* Battery low voltage warning system: when battery voltage drops to 2.8v (previously 2.9V), output will drop to low level. Previously, the light shut off at 2.7v (it no longer appears to).
Reverse polarity protection, to protect from improper battery installation
*NEW:* Digitally-regulated Infinite Brightness circuit is now current-controlled (previously was PWM-controlled)
Dimensions: 164mm (Length) x 25mm (Diameter) x 35mm (Head), Weight: 5.4oz weight (without batteries)
Made of durable aircraft-grade aluminum
Premium Type III hard-anodized anti-abrasive finish
Toughened ultra-clear glass lens with anti-reflective coating
Removable clip
Removable crenelated SS bezel
Smooth reflector (30mm diameter; 24mm depth) maintains good throw.
NEW: The Scorpion features a unique five stage UI with a twist ring on the tail cap. The ring rotates from left to right for the following modes: Lock out, Infinite brightness with memory, Firefly; Momentary Strobe; and Momentary On (relative order has now changed).
Typical Output and Runtimes:
*NEW:* Firefly mode: 0.2 lumens for 605 hours 2xCR123A (previously was 0.1 lumens, 9 days)
*NEW:* Infinite brightness: variable depending on setting and battery capacity. Max output 660 Lumens
*NEW:* Max: 750 OFT lumens for 1 minute, then drop to 89% when using2xCR123A (previously listed as 460ANSI lumens for 1 hour on 2xCR123A)
*NEW:* Strobe: 10hz, 750 lumens for 2.5hours (previously listed as 460 lumens for 2 hours) 
MSRP: unknown at this time, but I believe will be shipping soon.
Thrunite was also kind enough to send along a new Turbo head for the Scorpion V2 for testing. No specs on it yet, but it does improve the throw (as you will see below). 










Packaging has been updated for the new Scorpion V2. The cardboard case now comes with a colourful slip cover. Inside you will find the light, wrist lanyard, and spare o-rings (as before) – but also included now is a reasonable quality holster with closing flap. A revised manual is also included. 






The Turbo head came in its own box. I suspect this will be sold separately. 













From left to right: Surefire CR123A, Thrunite Scorpion 2 with Turbo head, Thrunite Scorpion V1, 4Sevens Maelstrom X7, Lumintop TD-15X.

Dimensions are largely unchanged from last time (with standard head), but weight has increased slightly:

*Scorpion V1*: Weight: 167.5g (no batteries), Length: 168mm, Width: 35.1 (bezel), 37.0mm (tailcap grip ring)
*Scorpion V2*: Weight: 171.2g (no batteries), Length: 168mm, Width: 35.0 (bezel), 37.0mm (tailcap grip ring)
*Scorpion V2 with Turbo Head*: Weight: 188.3g (no batteries), Length: 171mm, Width: 41.0 (bezel), 37.0mm (tailcap grip ring)

The Scorpion remains a tad beefier than most lights in this class, with apparently heavier heatsinking in the head (noticeable head weight difference compared to other lights). Length is also a little longer than typical, due to the control ring in the tailcap. Turbo head adds a little extra length.














The standard head Scorpion V2 is unchanged from the previous version – in terms of physical appearance. As before, the light feels quite solid and durable overall.

Clip is removable, with a knurled ring cover to hide the attachment point. Note the clip is not reversible.

Black anodizing (type III = HA) is in matte finish, similar to the Neutron series. Lettering (which is minimal) is bright and clear. Knurling is reasonably aggressive (similar to the Neutron series), and there is a generous amount of it over the light and tailcap. Grip is good, especially with the removable clip and built-in tailcap aluminum grip ring.

Square-cut screw threads are anodized for tailcap lock-out. Light cannot tailstand.

As before, there is a spring on the positive contact plate in the head, insuring contact for flat-top cells. I had trouble getting most of my high-capacity 18650 cells to work in the V1 sample (seemed to be too long, preventing the tailcap from screwing down all the way). But everything worked in my new V2 sample. 










The tailcap looks identical to before.

The tailcap exterior is composed of two distinct regions – a metal base (the grip ring and knurled region) and a polymer (i.e. plastic) control ring and switch. The control ring is directly connected to the substantial spring assembly unit inside the head, and the whole area spins freely when the tailcap is not attached. 

FYI, this design is remarkably similar to the Night-Ops Gladius. Not surprisingly, the interface is also nearly identical to that of the Gladius, except for the addition of the extra Firefy mode on the Scorpion. More on that (and the V2 revisions) in a moment.

 As before, it is very important you carefully line up the groove area with the tailcap ridge (by turning the plastic control ring) before tightening the switch assembly (by screwing the tailcap by the metal grip area). This new V2 seems somewhat smoother in my testing, but even the V1 worked fairly well. Still, be careful not to every try and force the tailcap when screwing on - you may damage the switch if overly careless. Once in the groove, the control ring now moves between 4 clear detents that set the output modes of the light.

For more on how the control ring works (and the V2 revisions), please see my User Interface discussion below.

Let see how it looks with the new Turbo head installed:














The Turbo head doesn’t look out of place on the light (in fact, they could probably have gotten away with an even larger one). There is no knurling or markings on the sample I was sent, so it is possible this is still an engineering sample.

Let’s see how they compare when viewed head-on (relative scale is only approximate) - standard head first, followed by Turbo head:










_Note: Don't worry about those little black specks in the pics above - it is simply dust on or around the emitter dome being reflected and magnified by the angle of the pic. Given the open head (with the ability to swap reflector/bezels), it stands to reason some dust and debris will get in from time to time. I just gave the bare emitter a mild shot of compressed air, and the specks disappeared upon reassembly of the reflector/bezel_. 

Both heads have a fairly deep and smooth reflector, with a well-centered XM-L emitter. I would expect reasonably good throw from both versions, with of course an advantage to the larger reflector in the Turbo head. 

Which brings me to the white-wall beamshots.  All lights are on AW protected 18650, about ~0.75 meter from a white wall (with the camera ~1.25 meters back from the wall). Automatic white balance on the camera, to minimize tint differences. All beamshots taken immediately upon activation.

Note: "Throw" refers to the V2 with Turbo head, and the original V1 is simply labeled as "Scorpion". The Scorpion V2 is running on Max in the Ramp mode (1x18650).





























































First thing you will notice is that the new V2 packs more punch than the original V1 (i.e. is brighter overall). The optional Turbo head adds a bit more throw, but it isn’t so obvious this close to a white wall. 

Which brings me to my outdoor beamshots.  I have just posted a new 100-yard round-up beamshot review for 2011, showcasing all my current "thrower" lights. Below are a couple of animated GIFs for relevant comparisons. Please see my round-up review for additional pics of other lights.
_
Note that these beamshots are also all taken immediately after initial activation of the light. Also, my Scorpion V2 is running on 1x18650 in the Momentary Max for these beamshots. Momentary mode on 2xRCR/CR123A would be slightly brighter initially (see my Summary Tables below for a discussion)._











Again, you can see the new V2 clearly outshines the original V1 Scorpion (and most of the competition in this class). The Turbo head does indeed boost the throw. oo: In fact, the output and throw are so high, I've added a comparison below to a few of the "big gun" 2x18650-sized lights:






The V2 Turbo holds its ground pretty well, relative to the TK35 and BC40 for example. Of course, runtime will be a lot less on the 1x18650/2xIMR RCR Scorpion V2. 

Since the throw is so impressive with the Turbo head installed, I thought I would compare it to the dedicated XP-G throwers:






Well, well, well – this is the first XM-L light to actually throw as far (or further) than my dedicated XP-G R5 throw lights. :bow: 

Scroll down to my Summary Tables for actual lux measures of all lights, on various batteries.

*User Interface*

The UI has been revised from the original V1 Scorpion. I suggest readers refer back to that review for a more detailed discussion – I will focus here on what has changed in V2.

As before, care has to be taken in how you screw on the tailcap (i.e. the raised ridge on the interior assembly must be lined up with the groove on the body tube before screwing it down). When fully assembled, you will still feel four clear detents on the plastic control ring for the four output modes of the light. But the sequence has changed from before.

To start, the first position remains Lock Out. From the left most detent, partially depress the switch, and turn the control ring further to the left (i.e. counter-clockwise). This locks the switch partially depressed, and you lose all the detents on the ring. At this point, the light won't come on or off by the switch until you turn the ring again while holding down the switch (causing it to release the lock on the switch, which pops back out). Note that thanks to the screw thread anodizing, you can still also lock out the light by simply unscrewing the head a quarter turn (i.e. by holding the metal base of the tailcap and turning).

In sequence, the next four modes (i.e. moving to the right, or clockwise) are now Infinite Brightness, Firefly, Momentary Strobe, and Momentary Max. Previously, the sequence was Firefly, Infinite Brightness, Momentary Max, and Momentary Strobe. Note that the Infinite Brightness mode has memory, and retains the last setting used (as before).

There are a number minor (but appreciated) changes in how the ring functions:

The main change is in the Infinite brightness mode. The ramping (activated by a press-hold form Off, as before) now has a reverse function - it changes direction of the ramp if you release the switch and re-press. This is convenient if you miss the output level you wanted – just switch it off and press-hold on again, and the light will reverse the direction (i.e. don't have to wait for the whole cycle, as before). Ramping time is also shorter now (about 5 secs, see graph below), and it uses a visually-linear logarithmic ramp now (instead of a standard current-linear ramp). Thrunite informs me the brightness varies 5%-89% (150mA-2.6A) across the ramp. You will note the lowest point of the ramp is higher than before.






Also, there is no longer the short re-activation delay when resetting the ramp. Before, if you flashed off-on too quickly, the light would not re-illuminate (i.e. need to wait a sec or so). 

But the most significant change to the Infinite Brightness circuit is how it regulates output levels: the V2 is now current-controlled – so no more visual PWM. 

There is no longer any pre-flash when first connecting the circuit. On my V1 Scorpion, I always had a brief max output pre-flash when making initial contact of the tailcap with the battery (and potentially a second pre-flash when fully tightened). This is now completely gone. :thumbsup:

Also, if you turn the ring to another position while the light is on, you no longer need to turn off before re-activating in that mode. You do still need to click the switch – but now it simply adjusts to the new mode smoothly, without output interruption.

Finally, Thrunite has increased the current of the Momentary Max mode on 2xRCR and 2xCR123A - you get 3A for 1 min, followed by drop-down to 2.5A for the rest of the run. In contrast, the Infinite Brightness ramp mode is 2.5A at its highest level, on all batteries.

*PWM/Strobe*

As mentioned above, PWM is now completely gone (previous V1 was a noticeable 250 Hz). 






Strobe now matches the 10 Hz spec (my previous sample was 13.1 Hz, similar to the Neutron series).

*Testing Method:* 

All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's flashlightreviews.com method. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for any extended run Lo/Min modes (i.e. >12 hours) which are done without cooling.

I have recently devised a method for converting my lightbox relative output values (ROV) to estimated Lumens. See my How to convert Selfbuilt's Lighbox values to Lumens thread for more info.

*Throw/Output Summary Chart:*

*Effective November 2010, I have revised my summary tables to match with the current ANSI FL-1 standard for flashlight testing. Please see http://www.sliderule.ca/FL1.htm for a description of the terms used in these tables.*

Note that my estimated lumen values may be a bit on the low side for these newer XM-L lights. My calibration was based on lower output lights, so the _absolute relationship_ may not hold at this higher level. But you can still rely on the _relative relationship_ between lights measured in my lightbox (i.e. to let you know how they perform relative to one another).

_*UPDATE JUNE 9, 2011:* The Scorpion V2 is driven harder for the first 1 min on Momentary Max on 2xRCR and 2xCR123A (i.e. 3A, then drops down to 2.5A), but not on the Max of the Infinite Brightness mode (i.e 2.5A on all batteries). Below are some tables comparing estimated lumen output in my lightbox, and corresponding throw/beam distance, for all batteries.
















As you can see, 2x battery sources are brighter for the first minute. I also see a slight initial increase in the 1x18650 Momentary Max mode, but this is relatively minor compared to the 2x diference. 

This complicates things for ANSI FL-1 output and throw measures, as output is taken at 3 mins into the run (which is typically slightly higher on Ramp Max that didn't have the burst mode), but throw/beam distance is calculated at 30 secs (where Momentary Ramp is definitely higher). As such, I have adjusted my tables below to reflect the absolute highest value (i.e. output is measured at 3 mins into the Ramp Max run, but throw/beam distance is measured at 30 secs into the Momentary Max run).

Aside from these throw/beam distance values, all testing in this review was done on the Ramp output levels unless stated otherwise. As I am sure you can understand, I didn't plan to hold the button down for a couple of hours for runtimes._ 

So how do the max ANSI FL-1 levels compare to the competition?
















Note that the Min lumen estimate is based on the Firefly mode. The lowest level of the continuously-variable ramp is shown in brackets beside it. As you will see, both the Firefly and lowest continuously-variable mode have increased on the Scorpion V2. In practical terms, I still find the Firefly quite low. However, it is disappointing that the ramp doesn’t go lower – this is likely a trade-off for current-control (on the V2) replacing PWM (on the V1). :shrug:

On Max, the V2 is very impressive – especially on 1x18650, where it clearly outshines the competition in this space (both for output and throw).  On 2xRCR (IMR only, due to the excessive discharge rates), the V2 with standard head is in a virtual dead heat with my Lumintop TD-15X (both for output and throw). And with the Turbo head, it handily out-throws anything in this class. 

More than that, these numbers also show that the V2 with Turbo head out-throws my two furthest throwing XP-G R5 light – the Lumintop TD-15 and Armytek Predator. oo: You can also see this in the outdoor beamshots shown earlier in this review.

Given the high output of the Scorpion V2, I thought it would also be relevant to compare it to my 2x18650 XM-L-based lights:






Consistent with what you saw in the outdoor beamshot comparisons earlier in this review, the Scorpion V2 with Turbo Head is pretty close in output and throw to the Fenix TK35 and JetBeam BC40! 

*Output/Runtime Comparison:*

_*Note:* Keep in mind that my lighbox's relative output scale is NOT linear over the range of outputs. And again, all runtimes were done in the Ramp output mode. Please refer to the tables above for a lumen estimate comparison of output._




















Note the V2 no longer shows the abrupt shut-off as the light nears the end of the run. The warning flash indicator now comes on slightly later as well (2.8V). I suspect both of these changes are in response to users' feedback (i.e. no one like a surprise shut-down of the light, or warning flashes too soon). 

Max output has increased across the board, on all batteries. Although 2xRCR is not recommended (due to the high discharge rate), IMR cells should be safe – as long as you manually terminate the run as soon as the light starts to flash. 

Output/runtime efficiency has also increased, likely thanks to the new current-controlled circuitry. By the time you get down to ~100 lumens or so, the V2 runs for twice as long as the V1. :thumbsup:

_*UPDATE JUNE 27, 2011:* It seems the high drive level at max output may cause some CR123A batteries to eventually overheat and trigger their PTC protection circuits. Here is comparison of two battery brands, with and without external cooling.






As you can see, at varying points into the run (depending on battery and cooling), output drops considerably then slowly recovers. This is likely due to the PTC limiting current in response to heat (as tested and discussed in more detail here). I have observed this behavior before, on a number of maximally-driven 4xCR123A lights. To be on the safe side, I recommend you do not run on max output for extended periods on this battery source._

*Potential Issues - Largely Resolved*

I am happy to report that many of the issues identified in my original V1 review have now been fixed/revised on the V2. 

In terms of the circuit, the visually-detectable PWM is gone (now current-controlled), as is the pre-flash on making initial battery-tailcap contact. Similarly, output/runtime efficiency has improved from before (which was low on the V1 for a XM-L based light). The Infinite Brightness feature now functions in an improved way (i.e. can reverse direction, no delay, faster and more visually-linear ramp). There are also a number of small tweaks to improve how the control ring functions, including improved mode switching and a revised mode order based on user feedback (see my UI discussion above). :twothumbs

Build-wise, little has changed – except the tailcap/body tube contact ridge has been enlarged to ensure consistent operation. My V1 Scorpion had difficulty taking most of my high-capacity cells – but my V2 sample worked on everything I tried (although a few of the longer ones did require a bit of force to fully tighten). 

That being said, the tailcap control ring still has a fairly novel and unique action, which may take some getting used to (although it is more comparable to the Gladius now). 

The main new concern from the original V1 is the drive level of the V2 on Max and near-maximal levels is now much higher. These 3A/2.5A levels are too high for standard RCR – you would need to use IMR cells if you are to attempt it. In any case, I am always concerned about heat in maximally-driven lights – the Scorpions seem to have reasonably good heatsinking for their size, but I worry these levels may be pushing it pretty hard (i.e. output is in the same league as some 2x18650-sized lights). 

Use of current-control means that the Infinite Brightness mode cannot go down to as low a level as before (i.e. PWM can support much lower output levels). Current-control can also result in tint-shifting at lower outputs, but I didn’t notice anything significant on my V2. This is not seen on PWM, since the drive current is constant at full power (i.e. only the duty cycle changes). However, most users will likely prefer the increased efficiency and lack of flicker now (I know I do).
_
UPDATE JUNE 27, 2011: It seems the high drive level at max output may cause CR123A batteries to eventually overheat and trigger their PTC protection circuits. I recommend you do not run on max output for extended periods on this battery source._

*Preliminary Observations*

The new V2 Scorpion may superficially look the same as old one, but a lot has changed "under the hood". The most obvious difference is when you turn it on – Max output has increased by over 50% in some cases (i.e.on 2xCR123A, from ~495 estimated initial lumens in my testing of the V1, to ~780 estimated initial lumens on the V2). oo: 

What is even more impressive is how hard they have managed to drive it on a single 18650 cell. No doubt about it – this is the brightest 1x18650 XM-L based light I’ve tested to date. It also throws the farthest, especially with the optional Turbo head (more on that in a moment). It terms of output, Thurnite’s reported output lumen numbers seem very believable (I don’t have a calibrated integrating sphere to confirm, but my estimates are consistent). 

But a lot more has changed here than just Max output. The entire continuously-variable ramp has been redone with a new circuit that is current-controlled (i.e. no longer uses PWM). This has a number of immediate positives - most obviously, no flicker . It also means increased efficiency – by the time you reach ~100 lumens, the new V2 runs about twice as long as the V1. :twothumbs One downside to this change is the lowest level of the ramp is now about 5 times higher (i.e. 37 vs 7.3 estimated lumens in my testing). 

The other major circuit change is in the UI, where a number of obvious (and more subtle) changes have taken place. First off, the order of modes has changed (based on user feedback here). Personally, I do like seeing Momentary Max at the far end of the dial (easier to remember that way).

But there are also all sorts of small changes that make the light more user-friendly, IMO. The connection pre-flash is gone, and you can now switch modes without having to turn the light off first. The activation delay when setting the continuously-variable ramp is gone, and you can now immediately reverse direction of the ramp by switching off-on. :thumbsup:

The new optional Turbo head is particularly impressive. Not only does it give the V2 best-in-class throw, it is also renders it the first XM-L light to match or out-throw all my dedicated XP-G R5 throwers (at least up to 100 yards). oo: More than that, you get a similar beam profile (i.e. output, spill, and throw) to the 2x18650-based Fenix TK35 and JetBeam BC40 - but in a 1x18650-sized light. Of course, heat at these maximal levels will be a concern on the smaller Scorpion.

It is nice to see a manufacturer listen to the feedback (and criticisms) of a given model, and come back with a significant improvement in a second version. It seems like Thrunite has addressed all the issues I identified in my original V1 review, and even thrown in a few bonuses like much higher output and a Turbo head throw option. If you are in the market for a "tactical" high-output XM-L light, the new Scorpion V2 has a lot to commend it. 

_*UPDATE JUNE 27, 2011:* Note that there are potential issues with running this light on Max on 2xCR123A. Please see this thread for more info._

----

Scorpion V2 provided by Thrunite for review.


----------



## Chongker

Sounds great! Much more tempting than before now. The LED looks pretty easy to access for a swap as well, though it would be great if they came straight out with a neutral version =) Gonna keep looking out for a V2!


----------



## ganymede

Excellent review! Is it just me or the reflector looks a bit dirty?








> Well, well, well – this is the first XM-L light to actually throw as far (or further) than my dedicated XP-G R5 throw lights.



Excellent! I am interested to see how will the other manufacturers response to this.


----------



## CheepSteal

Awesome review, dude! Looks like I might have to sell some junk and start saving for a Scorpion v2 now. Glad to hear momentary max is on the most clockwise mode instead of strobe.


----------



## selfbuilt

ganymede said:


> Excellent review! Is it just me or the reflector looks a bit dirty?


No, if you look carefully, you'll see all the specks are in the same relative position with both reflectors and heads - indicating it must be debris on or around the emitter dome. It is simply being reflected and magnified by the angle of the pic (in much the same way as the emitter wire leds are magnified and distorted). 

I just gave the bare emitter a mild shot of compressed air, and the specks disappeared upon reassembly of the reflector/bezel. Given the open head (with the ability to swap reflector/bezels), it stands to reason some dust and debris will get in from time to time.


----------



## flashflood

Thank you for yet another thorough, thoughtful review.

I love my Thrunite Neutrons, but when the Scorpion came out, I remember thinking: meh. Way bigger, not much brighter, PWM, etc. The V2 sounds like an entirely different light. My meh has just been upgraded to an ooo. 

Cheers to Thrunite for listening, innovating, and delivering a vastly improved product.


----------



## candle lamp

Great review as usual. Thanks a lot! :twothumbs

When battery voltage drop to around 2.9v, V1 become dim and flicker four times, and go out. 

Did you notice the flashing in V2 when the battery was nearing exhaustion as well?


----------



## Gryffin

So 2x16340 is a bad idea… What about 2x18350? At ~50% more capacity, and similar total capacity to a single 18650, seems to me it should be OK… Or is the 1x18650 performance good enough that two cells really aren't worth the trouble?


----------



## dajabec

In the specs and places where it mentions 2XCR123A outputs there is no mention of IMR cells so it seems to be saying it is safe to use primary 123's in this light but not RCR123? Please excuse my noob ignorance if I'm reading something wrong.

Also a comment and a question. 

Lumintop really got it right the first time huh? I believe they were first to the punch with this size of xm-l light, and they're still a standard of comparison. Of course from the looks of it I'd take this Scorpion with the turbo head in a heartbeat over the TD-15x but still impressive.

How would the Dereelight DBS with xm-l stack up to these recently reviewed xm-l lights? I know it's too old to review, but it is also driven at 2.5 amps, and claims 27,000+ lux. If that's even remotely true wouldn't it have been the first xm-l of this size to throw with the xp-gs?


Love your reviews selfbuilt! Keep 'em coming, you da man!


----------



## selfbuilt

I have just updated the review with more information and data around the 3A/2.5A burst-mode feature.

The Scorpion V2 is driven harder for the first 1 min on Momentary Max on 2xRCR and 2xCR123A (i.e. 3A, then drops down to 2.5A), but not on the Max of the Infinite Brightness mode (i.e stays 2.5A on all batteries). Below are some tables comparing estimated lumen output in my lightbox, and corresponding throw/beam distance, for all batteries.
















As you can see, 2x battery sources are brighter for the first minute. I also see a slight initial increase in the 1x18650 Momentary Max mode, but this is relatively minor compared to the 2x diference. 

This complicates things for ANSI FL-1 output and throw measures, as output is taken at 3 mins into the run (which is typically slightly higher on Ramp Max that didn't have the burst mode), but throw/beam distance is calculated at 30 secs (where Momentary Ramp is definitely higher). As such, I have adjusted my Summary tables in the review to reflect the absolute highest value (i.e. output is measured at 3 mins into the Ramp Max run, but throw/beam distance is measured at 30 secs into the Momentary Max run).

Aside from these throw/beam distance values, all testing in this review was done on the Ramp output levels unless stated otherwise. As I am sure you can understand, I didn't plan to hold the button down for a couple of hours for runtimes. 

Hope that helps clear things up.



candle lamp said:


> Did you notice the flashing in V2 when the battery was nearing exhaustion as well?


Yes, the light does begin to flash as the battery drains. But the output never cuts out now - the light will go on draining the batteries. Even my protected AW 18650 continued to drop to very low levels.

This is a problem with 1x18650 in a lot of lights - you can't rely on the battery protection circuit to cut-out at a reasonable voltage (I don't recall exactly, but I believe the built-in cut-off feature is in the 2.3-2.4V range). Normally this isn't a problem if you hit it when running at high drain - the cell will almost immediately bounce back to >2.7V and continue to slowly climb back up. But in lights that drop into dim moon modes (as many multi-power lights will on 1x18650), you will drain protected batteries to unsafe levels (i.e. they will stay at ~2.4V for an extended time if left to slowly drain). 

But fortunately the low voltage flash will warn you on the V2 in plenty of time, so you are unlikely to let that happen unless you continue to run it for hours after the flashing starts. It's really only a problem for those of us doing unsupervised runtimes (i.e. overnight runs). 



Gryffin said:


> So 2x16340 is a bad idea… What about 2x18350? At ~50% more capacity, and similar total capacity to a single 18650, seems to me it should be OK… Or is the 1x18650 performance good enough that two cells really aren't worth the trouble?


Hmmm, 2x18350 might be alright, given their higher capacity. But honestly, the difference between 2x and 1x battery sources isn't that great (especially after the first 1 min of burst mode). I would recommend running the light on 1x18650.


----------



## 00birdy

thanks for the additional info.. i'm trying to find more info on pros/cons of battery choices but am not coming up with much. You would recommend the 18650 as the best battery choice? x2 shows better numbers, but not necessarily the best choice?


----------



## AardvarkSagus

Wow. Kudos to you again for such an excellent review. Sounds like they did well with the V2 variant. Love reading your stuff. Very thorough.


----------



## bkumanski

dajabec said:


> In the specs and places where it mentions 2XCR123A outputs there is no mention of IMR cells so it seems to be saying it is safe to use primary 123's in this light but not RCR123? Please excuse my noob ignorance if I'm reading something wrong.
> 
> Also a comment and a question.
> 
> Lumintop really got it right the first time huh? I believe they were first to the punch with this size of xm-l light, and they're still a standard of comparison. Of course from the looks of it I'd take this Scorpion with the turbo head in a heartbeat over the TD-15x but still impressive.
> 
> How would the Dereelight DBS with xm-l stack up to these recently reviewed xm-l lights? I know it's too old to review, but it is also driven at 2.5 amps, and claims 27,000+ lux. If that's even remotely true wouldn't it have been the first xm-l of this size to throw with the xp-gs?
> 
> 
> Love your reviews selfbuilt! Keep 'em coming, you da man!



I was wondering the same thing about the DBS. I just ordered one with the extender for 2 18500s. Now I am wondering if I need to get this one too! With the turbo head, it looks to have a slightly shorter length than the DBS and with support for 1 18650 (The DBS xml needs more voltage so 2 cells only...)


----------



## Xacto

Thanks for the great and thorough review. Did you try to swap the tailcaps of the two versions? I wonder if the V2 tailcap would work and fit on the V1.

Thanks
Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## Gryffin

selfbuilt said:


> But honestly, the difference between 2x and 1x battery sources isn't that great (especially after the first 1 min of burst mode).


 
Not for that first minute on Max! As you said:



selfbuilt said:


> As you can see, 2x battery sources are brighter for the first minute. I also see a slight initial increase in the 1x18650 Momentary Max mode, but this is relatively minor compared to the 2x diference.



If I wanna dazzle somebody, I'm gonna want that extra kick.

Actually, after re-reading your review, I'm thinking 2x18350 may not fit. You mention that some of your large-capacity 18650s were too long; there probably isn't enough length to make contact with 70mm of cells in the pipe. I have that problem with the TD-15X.


----------



## Bass

Excellent review Selfbuilt. Great job by Thrunite too, seems to be improvements all round and that output from one cell oo:. Glad a holster is now included as standard - a light in this class needs one. It really should have been included first time round.

Thrunite are really showing themselves to be an innovative company with great products. I have a Catapult V2 XM-L which I rate very highly - it is a superb light. The Scorpian didn't interest me first time round but that may change with the V2.


----------



## selfbuilt

dajabec said:


> In the specs and places where it mentions 2XCR123A outputs there is no mention of IMR cells so it seems to be saying it is safe to use primary 123's in this light but not RCR123? Please excuse my noob ignorance if I'm reading something wrong.


To quote the manual: "(2.7-8.4V), don't fit 2 16340 batteries since it's high current discharge."

I take that to mean they don't officially support RCR, period. But the voltage range would seem to just allow it, and the concern expressed is specifically for high current. Since IMR can handle the current (and the output/heat would be no worse than 2xCR123A), I figured it was worthwhile giving it a try. Besides, I know members here would do it anyway . But without official word from Thrunite on the matter, you would be taking a risk.



> How would the Dereelight DBS with xm-l stack up to these recently reviewed xm-l lights?


No idea, since the last Dereelight I have is the XR-E R2 continuously variable.



00birdy said:


> thanks for the additional info.. i'm trying to find more info on pros/cons of battery choices but am not coming up with much. You would recommend the 18650 as the best battery choice? x2 shows better numbers, but not necessarily the best choice?





Gryffin said:


> Not for that first minute on Max! As you said: If I wanna dazzle somebody, I'm gonna want that extra kick.


It's true that 2x gives you higher output on Momentary. But if you compare the tables for 2xRCR vs 1x18650 (both on momentary), you'll see the difference is only ~8-9% over the first minute. Personally, I don't find that enough to really see a difference in use.

I generally recommend 1x18650 for the extra capacity and greater safety (i.e. with two cells, there's always a potential risk if one of them fails and creates a charging imbalance inside the light).



> Actually, after re-reading your review, I'm thinking 2x18350 may not fit. You mention that some of your large-capacity 18650s were too long; there probably isn't enough length to make contact with 70mm of cells in the pipe. I have that problem with the TD-15X.


That's a good point - the tolerances may not support the extra height. The largest cell I tried was 69.2mm, and it required a fair bit of force to fully tighten. All my cells <69mm were fine.



Xacto said:


> Thanks for the great and thorough review. Did you try to swap the tailcaps of the two versions? I wonder if the V2 tailcap would work and fit on the V1.


Yes, the tailcaps seem to be identical - each one worked on the other version. Of course, the circuit in the head controls what each light does ...



Bass said:


> Excellent review Selfbuilt. Great job by Thrunite too, seems to be improvements all round and that output from one cell oo:. Glad a holster is now included as standard - a light in this class needs one. It really should have been included first time round.


Yes, but I should point out the holster was designed for the standard head. It is easiest to use if the you insert the light head-down (i.e. the tailcap grip can be a bit awkward to put in tail-first). But with the Turbo head, you need to put it in tail-first - and the flap then just barely closes over the larger head.


----------



## candle lamp

selfbuilt said:


> But fortunately the low voltage flash will warn you on the V2 in plenty of time, so you are unlikely to let that happen unless you continue to run it for hours after the flashing starts. It's really only a problem for those of us doing unsupervised runtimes (i.e. overnight runs).


 
The V2 user can use unprotected 18650 with no worries, but he should not sleep putting his light on. 
Thanks for your reply again.


----------



## Xacto

selfbuilt said:


> Yes, the tailcaps seem to be identical - each one worked on the other version. Of course, the circuit in the head controls what each light does ...
> 
> [...]



Thanks, that is good news for the V1 users in case a replacement is needed.

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## nanotech17

this light definately gonna be my next buy - especially with the Turbo head on it - simply stunning throw & brighter in its class.
thanks Selfbuilt for the review & your time with it.


----------



## scheven_architect

hello,

would i be able to use these http://www.survivallaser.com/RCR123A_Rechargeable_Batteries/p556088_2259725.aspx with the flashlight?

greetings!


----------



## selfbuilt

FYI, Thrunite informs me that the standby current for the Scorpion V2 is only 30 uA. So a typical 18650 cell should last for about a decade or so. But I am unable to verify this directly, as the tailcap is required to complete the circuit (i.e. electronic switch). If worried, you can always untwist the tailcap to break the current.

I also understand from their CPFMP thread that they aren't currently planning to sell the Turbo head separately, but rather as a seperate version for sale (i.e. Scorpion Turbo). Check with Thrunite for more info.


----------



## scheven_architect

What would happen if i used 2 3,7v RCR123A's?
What are actually the best batteries rcr123 or 18650?

greetings!


----------



## Chongker

A little unsure of which one to get right now. Their current lineup in order of increasing throw would be: 

Neutron -> Scorpion -> Scorpion Turbo -> Catapult

Already have the Neutron and Catapult, and one of the scorpions would be nice to fill in the slot in between (technically filled in by other flashlight brands already, but lets not go there  ). Just unsure of which of the two would be functionally better though, decisions decisions.

Would be nice to get the separate turbohead, then it'll be possible to lego.


----------



## selfbuilt

scheven_architect said:


> What would happen if i used 2 3,7v RCR123A's?


On max and near-max, you would damage the batteries. At a minimum, this would quickly result in degraded performance and inability to keep a charge (i.e. high self-discharge). It would also make them inherently unstable and unsafe to charge. Please see the batteries sub-forum to consult the experts.

Again, only IMR chemistry is capable of handling this sort of discharge rate. If unsure, simply don't use 2xRCR.


----------



## recDNA

How can primaries handle it?


----------



## brightnorm

I just checked Thrunite's site which turned out to be one of the least up-to-date flashlight sites I have seen. It doesn't even mention the original Scorpion. Battery Junction's Thrunite page does not yet list the V2.

Flashaholic frustration!

Brightnorm


----------



## selfbuilt

recDNA said:


> How can primaries handle it?


Different chemistry again. Primaries can handle quite a bit in some regards, but also have their own limitations (i.e. they can get quite hot internally). But real capacity is higher than protected RCR, so discharge rate is lower. Still, I wouldn't recommend running primaries on Max for extended periods either (mainly for heat) - 18650 would be the best way to go. 

Rechargeable Li-ion chemistry has different needs, and care has to be taken in how you treat them if you expect them to retain a charge (and retaining charging ability). I wouldn't be surprised to see >4C discharge rates on standard protected RCR here (and no, I'm not going to test it - I go through enough cells as it is, without that abuse ). 

Much the same issue with the TD-15X - it's a common problem when you drive things this hard.



brightnorm said:


> I just checked Thrunite's site which turned out to be one of the least up-to-date flashlight sites I have seen. It doesn't even mention the original Scorpion. Battery Junction's Thrunite page does not yet list the V2.


Yeah, I recommend you check out the CPFMP manufacturer's subforum for up to date info - Thrunite seems to post quite regularly there.


----------



## brightnorm

Forgot to mention something so obvious that it hardly needs mentioning: Great review!

brightnorm


----------



## tre

Wow. Thanks for detailing the new vs the "old". What an amazing single 18650 light. So far, all the single cell 18650 xml lights have not really peaked my interest until this one. The amount of lumens and throw from this reasonable sized light is pretty amazing. I may have to replace my Maelstrom G5 XPG R5.


----------



## recDNA

Id be curious to know amps at the tailcap with 2 x cr123; 2 x imr16340; and 1 x 18650


----------



## selfbuilt

recDNA said:


> Id be curious to know amps at the tailcap with 2 x cr123; 2 x imr16340; and 1 x 18650


Can't do it, since there is an electronic switch is the tailcap. You need to have the switch included in the circuit path in order to activate modes and take readings. Would need to jury-rig something with all contact points engaged, and I just don't have the setup.


----------



## Flight_Deck

Does anyone know when this light will be available to purchase?


----------



## calipsoii

Thanks for the excellent review selfbuilt! Thinking based on what you've said here that I'll give one of these a go. Thrunite's said they're doing a limited neutral XM-L run and the Turbo head is available separately so that'll probably be what I wait for.


----------



## brightnorm

Flight_Deck said:


> Does anyone know when this light will be available to purchase?


 
*Response from Thrunite:*

*We have sent to USA dealers these shipment. I think batteryjunction will get the shipment this week!*
*Best Regards *

*David *​


----------



## calipsoii

Just an FYI for anyone who reads selfbuilt's review and decides "Damn, I have to have one of those with the turbo head" (like I did) - Thrunite is currently accepting orders on CPF Marketplace for a limited run neutral v2 with Turbo head. Jump on it before it's gone.

Thanks again for the great review selfbuilt! I love going into purchases with some knowledge of what I'm going to be getting, and your reviews are always the very best source of that.


----------



## CQ73

Awesome review, selfbuilt! Many thanks for the information.


----------



## candle lamp

Selfbuilt,

The LED runs at 2.5~3.0A on near max. & max. mode and when using two RCR123A cells, you will get about half(1.25~1.5A) on each cell.

My calculation(1.25~1.5A) is correct?

The recommended discharge ratio of AW RCR123A(750mAh) cell is about 1C, but each cell's discharge ratio is about 1.67C~2C.

So, do you recommend to use 1x18650 instead?


----------



## Nachtwacht

Thanks, selfbuilt. I'm impressed, both by the quality of your reviews as by the specs of this light. Seems almost too good to be true. I'm considering ordering one, based on this review.

EDIT: Well, couldn't resist the neutral version... Thanks to calipsoii for the heads up.


----------



## selfbuilt

candle lamp said:


> My calculation(1.25~1.5A) is correct?


No, it doesn't quite work that way. Drive current to the LED is not the same as drain on the batteries, due to the role of the circuit. The experts on battery power draw would have to chime in here, but I don't be believe it's possible to provide accurate estimates of battery current based just on emitter drive levels.

In any case, it doesn't matter - my max runtime on IMR cells tells me to expect no more than ~15mins runtime on protected RCR. This drastically exceeds safe operating discharge rates for the those cells (i.e. 1C would be about an hour, and 2C - half that - is far as I would be willing to push it on regular use).


----------



## CQ73

Would the neutral version be less blinding? Both/either to the user or to someone at the receiving end? Also would neutral tint be a little less easy to spot from far away?


----------



## zifnab69

CQ73 said:


> Would the neutral version be less blinding?


 
I ask question to thrunite about the lumens rattings for the neutral version. 
They explain me it'll be 600+ lumens instead of 750 with CR123, so it can be less blinding just for that.

I don't know what is the best in fact, more lumens in cold white or less with natural white. Somebody can give idea ?


----------



## selfbuilt

zifnab69 said:


> They explain me it'll be 600+ lumens instead of 750 with CR123, so it can be less blinding just for that. I don't know what is the best in fact, more lumens in cold white or less with natural white. Somebody can give idea ?


Both will be quite "blinding" on Hi. The difference comes down to how much you like the tint, ultimately. The difference in output won't be very noticeable.


----------



## zifnab69

selfbuilt said:


> Both will be quite "blinding" on Hi. The difference comes down to how much you like the tint, ultimately. The difference in output won't be very noticeable.



Hy Selfbuild
Are you sure about the fact the difference in output won`t be noticeable ? (i prefer you'll be right). They tell me 600 lumens when the regular one have 750 so. 150 lumens seems quite important ( remember, some years ago we say WHOWWW when we have a surfire 90 lumens...)
but i/ll be very please if there is no noticeable output between both


----------



## candle lamp

selfbuilt said:


> No, it doesn't quite work that way. Drive current to the LED is not the same as drain on the batteries, due to the role of the circuit. The experts on battery power draw would have to chime in here, but I don't be believe it's possible to provide accurate estimates of battery current based just on emitter drive levels.
> 
> In any case, it doesn't matter - my max runtime on IMR cells tells me to expect no more than ~15mins runtime on protected RCR. This drastically exceeds safe operating discharge rates for the those cells (i.e. 1C would be about an hour, and 2C - half that - is far as I would be willing to push it on regular use).


 
Many thanks for the reply. Selfbuilt!
Therefore the runtime graph for hi mode-2xAW protected RCR is that for actually 2xIMR16340 cells.

But the discharge ratio of the RCR123A is difficult for me to estimate or predict, because the specifications of two cells are somewhat different.
In case of RCR123A & IMR16340 made by AW, capacity & max. discharge rate are 750mAh(1.5A) & 550mAh(4A) respectively.
I can't estimate the discharge ratio when using 2xRCR123A cells from the runtime graph for hi mode-2xIMR16340s.

I'm sorry to ask foolish questions.


----------



## DLite57

selfbuilt, a quick question. Actually 2? 
Will this light have an extender option in it's future, like the TD-15?
And, will it be able to handle the load of 2x18650's? Would love it if I could swap extenders between this one & my TD15, as I run mine with 2x18650's & would jump on this light! If I'm not mistaken, the diameters are the same, so a doable thing???
The turbo head version seems to be out as a single purchase, if I'm correct. A much easier decison now.:thumbsup:
Thanks.
Jeff


----------



## selfbuilt

zifnab69 said:


> Hy Selfbuild
> Are you sure about the fact the difference in output won`t be noticeable ? (i prefer you'll be right). They tell me 600 lumens when the regular one have 750 so. 150 lumens seems quite important ( remember, some years ago we say WHOWWW when we have a surfire 90 lumens...)


Ah, that's the magic of lumens (and how your eye sees things). The visual difference between 750 lumens and 600 lumens is really no greater than between 100 and 80 lumens. In both cases, the lower number is just a 20% drop in output. That's really only noticeable side by side. I know it seems like a 150 lumens difference should be more noticeable than a 20 lumens one, but it isn't in this case - your eye adjusts to the baseline amount of light available, and any difference up or down is just relative.



candle lamp said:


> But the discharge ratio of the RCR123A is difficult for me to estimate or predict, because the specifications of two cells are somewhat different. ... I'm sorry to ask foolish questions.


It's not foolish - it is quite a reasonable question. In my testing of AW IMR and protected RCR cells at high drive currents, I would expect less than 15 mins runtime on RCR on Max here (i.e. based on my IMR results here, and other experience in general). Since that isn't safe for the cells, I am not going to test it directly in this case (i.e. I would have to discard the batteries afterwards, which gets rather expensive ). Suffice to say, the max discharge rate is too high for protected RCR.



DLite57 said:


> selfbuilt, a quick question. Actually 2?
> Will this light have an extender option in it's future, like the TD-15?
> And, will it be able to handle the load of 2x18650's? Would love it if I could swap extenders between this one & my TD15, as I run mine with 2x18650's & would jump on this light! If I'm not mistaken, the diameters are the same, so a doable thing???
> The turbo head version seems to be out as a single purchase, if I'm correct. A much easier decison now.:thumbsup:


No, the threading and build of the Scorpion is completely different from the TD15. I have no idea if Thrunite is planning an extention (but I doubt it, given the complicated build of the tailcap).

However, it is good news to hear they plan to sell the turbo head seperately.


----------



## 00birdy

glad about the news for the seperate turbo head. I'm still waiting for mine to come in, its in the mail from hong kong. il post up pictures too if anyone is interested. (probably a seperate thread)


----------



## selfbuilt

Following up on HKJ's runtime result for 2xCR123A, I have re-tested my V2 sample without a cooling fan:







You will note the drop-down pattern in output under these conditions (i.e. no cooling). I have observed something very similar on the SST-50-based Thrunite Catapult V2 and Olight M31 on 4xCR123A, as shown here. 

At that time, I presumed it was a circuit feature to step-down output if a certain internal temperature was reached. But the Scorpion has no such feature (AFAIK), so it's possible this may actually be a battery chemistry issue at high temperature. I've asked Thrunite to confirm whether or not the Scorpion has any thermal protection feature. I'll keep you posted.
_
UPDATE: Thrunite informs me that they use a resistor which varies with temperature. So when the temperature is high, the resistor will drive the current lower. As the temp drops in the CR123As (driven less hard), output gradually recovers. This outcome is therefore normal, they say. I'm still not quite clear as to why the drop in output is so sharp, though._


----------



## selfbuilt

Following up on the discussions in HKJ's review thread, I have done extra tests comparing my standard Titanium Innovations CR123As and Panasonic made-in-USA CR123A. Here are my results for the Scorpion V2 on 2xCR123A on max, with and without external cooling:






The Titanium Innovation cells perform consistently for a lot longer - with cooling, there was no sign of a step-down (and even without cooling, it only happened near the end of the run). Cooling also didn't make much of a difference on the Panasonic runs - except I got barely ~5 mins to step down without it, and ~6 mins with it.  The only real difference cooling seems to make is in the rate of the recovery phase.

So it seems the Panasonic cells can't handle the current load and heat up faster than the Titanium Innovations cells. This is turn either triggers some sort of stepdown circuit/resistor, or causes some sort of battery "hiccup". 

Interesting ... I've just posted a synopsis of the situation in the batteries/electronics forum. Let's see what the experts there think!


----------



## js82

Hi Selfbuilt.

I have a question about the brightness of the turbohead vs the regular one. Based on the fact that it's only the reflector that's changed and that the lumens figures are the same, are the resulting outputs of both actually the same in brightness? I ask because from your pictures it seems that the turbohead is brighter without sacrificing flood. But logically it shouldn't be the case. So does the regular head give more flood?

It's a shame that the efficiency of its circuitry isn't as good as the lumintop.


----------



## FLT MEDIC

selfbuilt said:


> Can't do it, since there is an electronic switch is the tailcap. You need to have the switch included in the circuit path in order to activate modes and take readings. Would need to jury-rig something with all contact points engaged, and I just don't have the setup.



The Scorpion and Gladius tailcap switches are a magnetic "contactless" type of switch, aligned to 4 or 3 reed type micro switches (respectively) inside the inner plastic battery tube. When the magnet is aligned to a reed switch, it will switch on that mode.

The 4 or 3 reed switches are also connected by flexible circuit board to the control circuitry in the bezel/head that's why it is not possible to just screw on a battery extension tube.

This is also why it has a standby current of around 30uA (even if it is off, as long as the tailcap switch is screwed on) which is usually measured in the control circuit in the head/bezel.

You can also place a very strong magnet (like my no battery needed "shake to use" flashlight) outside the external O-ring at the end of the battery tube to activate the reed switch/mode that you like and then measure current between the battery's negative side and the aluminum body of the Scorpion or Gladius. 

Rotating the external magnet activates the modes even if the tailcap switch is not screwed on. This is the only weakness of the Gladius and other lights using this type of tailcap, that it can be accidentally activated by my magnetic shake flashlight, electromagnets, etc. so keeping magnets at least an inch away during storage/carry solves this weakness.

Our group's Gladius lights have never accidentally switched on in the past 5 yrs, so magnets should not be a problem with the Scorpion V1 or V2.

Many thanks Selfbuilt for your comprehensive review as usual, your beamshots made me decide to buy the Scorpion V2 with turbo head asap.


----------



## selfbuilt

FLT MEDIC said:


> The Scorpion and Gladius tailcap switches are a magnetic "contactless" type of switch, aligned to 4 or 3 reed type micro switches (respectively) inside the inner plastic battery tube. When the magnet is aligned to a reed switch, it will switch on that mode.


Thanks for the detailed post FLT_MEDIC. :thumbsup:

HKJ had attempted what I suggested above, and wasn't able to get it to work over a distance. Your explanation of the magnetic switching control makes perfect sense, as you would need to have the tailcap very close to its stock position for this to work. I vaguely seem to recall now that people were complaining about strong magnets and the Gladius. Thanks for the detailed explanation.


----------



## FLT MEDIC

You're welcome! 

The small MRI in our local hospital hasn't been able to activate my Gladius at 3 feet so I wonder why some owners have complained about magnets accidentally triggering their Gladius. Maybe they were in a junkyard with the electromagnet crane lifting cars nearby, LOL!


----------



## akajimmy

I sprung for a Neutral with a Turbo.


----------



## Xak

How do you think the new Olight M20 XM-L U2 drop in modules will compare to these Scorpions?


----------



## Xak

just subscribing to the post...


----------



## brightnorm

I'm enjoying my new Scorpion II but I noticed that there is no o-ring on the tail threads. I will use it without the clip. When I tried one of the included o-rings in the "clip groove" it bunched up and protruded when I screwed on the tailcap. There must be a simple solution that I'm somehow not seeing. Any help is appreciated.

Brightnorm


----------



## HKJ

brightnorm said:


> I'm enjoying my new Scorpion II but I noticed that there is no o-ring on the tail threads. I will use it without the clip. When I tried one of the included o-rings in the "clip groove" it bunched up and protruded when I screwed on the tailcap. There must be a simple solution that I'm somehow not seeing. Any help is appreciated.
> 
> Brightnorm


 
The O-ring is on the inside, I do mention it in my review, you can also just about see it in this picture:


----------



## brightnorm

HKJ,

I did read your excellent review but somehow missed it. Many thanks!

Brightnorm


----------



## HKJ

brightnorm said:


> I did read your excellent review but somehow missed it. Many thanks!



If was not in the first revision of the review (I did not see it either), but somebody pointed it out and I adjusted the review.


----------



## molon_labe

If it was INF V with tailstand ability it would be the perfect light. Maybe V3 will have those features?


----------



## selfbuilt

js82 said:


> Based on the fact that it's only the reflector that's changed and that the lumens figures are the same, are the resulting outputs of both actually the same in brightness? I ask because from your pictures it seems that the turbohead is brighter without sacrificing flood. But logically it shouldn't be the case. So does the regular head give more flood?


Sorry I missed this question the other day. Yes, the overall brightness is the same. The beamshot pics don't really capture the dynamic range of outputs well (cameras never do). In real life, the main noticeable difference is in throw.



> It's a shame that the efficiency of its circuitry isn't as good as the lumintop.


Well, it's not that bad either - I'd consider it fairly close.  You have to keep in mind the Scorpion is continuously-variable, so have a much wider range of outputs (and in that context, outperforms PWM-based lights). If you only offer a few levels, it's typically easier to optimize for them (i.e. harder to optimize all the outputs on the Scorpion). 



Xak said:


> How do you think the new Olight M20 XM-L U2 drop in modules will compare to these Scorpions?


Hard to know. But in my experience, Olight typically optimizes for a balance between output, heat and efficiency in M20/M21-class lights (i.e. may not be driven as hard as the Scorpion). There's a possibility I may be reviewing this drop-in - not sure yet, though.



HKJ said:


> The O-ring is on the inside, I do mention it in my review, you can also just about see it in this picture:


Good catch, I hadn't noticed it in there originally (i.e. covered in a lot of goop).


----------



## js82

selfbuilt said:


> Sorry I missed this question the other day. Yes, the overall brightness is the same. The beamshot pics don't really capture the dynamic range of outputs well (cameras never do). In real life, the main noticeable difference is in throw.
> 
> 
> Well, it's not that bad either - I'd consider it fairly close.  You have to keep in mind the Scorpion is continuously-variable, so have a much wider range of outputs (and in that context, outperforms PWM-based lights). If you only offer a few levels, it's typically easier to optimize for them (i.e. harder to optimize all the outputs on the Scorpion).


 
I hope they actually come out with an orange peel reflector cuz I like it floody. I ordered one though cuz it seems really good.

Thanks for your answers and thorough reviews. They've been really helpful!


----------



## vinhnguyen54

Do you guys know if the turbo head is worth the $32 shipped? If the head was bigger then I would want one right away...But this one seems just a little bigger and $32 isnt cheap at all. 

Any more beam shots comparison please?


----------



## Helmut.G

calipsoii said:


> Just an FYI for anyone who reads selfbuilt's review and decides "Damn, I have to have one of those with the turbo head" (like I did) - Thrunite is currently accepting orders on CPF Marketplace for a limited run neutral v2 with Turbo head. Jump on it before it's gone.
> 
> Thanks again for the great review selfbuilt! I love going into purchases with some knowledge of what I'm going to be getting, and your reviews are always the very best source of that.


my wallet hates you 
seriously, thank you for posting this, I would've missed that otherwise. :twothumbs


selfbuilt, thank you for doing another excellent review!


btw, I too think that if they make a dedicated turbohead they could've and should've made it bigger, because that's what I'll have the small one for, when I need the light to be compact, and if I screw on a big head for max throw the head might as well be large, and not semi-compact like this one is.
I could understand this compromise better if they will offer the light for sale with only the turbohead. A dedicated and separately sold turbohead should be big.


----------



## vinhnguyen54

I agree 100% that there should be a dedicated HUGE turbo head!


----------



## selfbuilt

Helmut.G said:


> I could understand this compromise better if they will offer the light for sale with only the turbohead. A dedicated and separately sold turbohead should be big.


From comments in their CPFMP thread, I believe that was their original intent (i.e. to sell a version with only the turbohead, distinct from the regular version). It seems like they relented and allowed the turbohead to be sold separately as a result of user demand.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

vinhnguyen54 said:


> I agree 100% that there should be a dedicated HUGE turbo head!



It seems like a pretty cool light and pretty easy to swap heads. I wonder if there would be demand enough if they made say 4 head sizes - the "stock" 35 mm, the 41 mm they have, a 48 mm and a 55 mm and then let you order it with what ever head you wanted and buy any other size seperately.


----------



## js82

Is there already a waterproof remote pressure switch for the scorpion? Is it ok to mount the scorpion on a M4?


----------



## AusKipper

Does anyone know if this will fit into the "knife pocket" (pocket on right leg) of the 5.11 taclite pro's?

If so, I think I found my new EDC....


----------



## Helmut.G

js82 said:


> Is there already a waterproof remote pressure switch for the scorpion? Is it ok to mount the scorpion on a M4?


flashaholics.co.uk shows a Scorpion pressure switch in stock.
I don't know if it's waterproof.


----------



## js82

Helmut.G said:


> flashaholics.co.uk shows a Scorpion pressure switch in stock.
> I don't know if it's waterproof.


 
Thanks. Strangely it's not available where I bought my scorpion, and it doesn't seem to be available in a few other online stores in the US.


----------



## tadbik

I'm waiting for the turbo head only version. Why would I want both??!!


----------



## Helmut.G

tadbik said:


> I'm waiting for the turbo head only version. Why would I want both??!!


because the compact one is more suitable for edc is my reason.


----------



## Nokoff

using selfbuilt's installed numbers, the Turbo head is only 3 mm longer and 6 mm wider overall...I have a holster than can handle that...the increase would affect pocket carry more, though since I holster mine, the biggest problem I always have is with grip rings, so I'd also like to see it sold with the Turbo head as one unit..I'd also have no use for the regular head.

*Scorpion V2*: Weight: 171.2g (no batteries), Length: 168mm, Width: 35.0 (bezel), 37.0mm (tailcap grip ring)
*Scorpion V2 with Turbo Head*: Weight: 188.3g (no batteries), Length: 171mm, Width: 41.0 (bezel), 37.0mm (tailcap grip ring)


Great reivew selfbuilt :thumbsup:


----------



## CQ73

Is there a set of 123-sized rechargeable batteries you could use with this? Something RCR but that doesn't cause the problems that the 3.7v ones do? Maybe a LiFePO chemistry, so you can get the improved brightness from 2 cells in the 6v+ range but still recharge?


----------



## Helmut.G

CQ73 said:


> Is there a set of 123-sized rechargeable batteries you could use with this? Something RCR but that doesn't cause the problems that the 3.7v ones do? Maybe a LiFePO chemistry, so you can get the improved brightness from 2 cells in the 6v+ range but still recharge?


LiFePO would work. IMR would work. Both will give you less than half the runtime compared to a high-capacity high-quality 18650 cell, and you will be in danger to overdischarge them because the Scorpion's low battery detection only works with a single 3.7V cell.


----------



## selfbuilt

CQ73 said:


> Is there a set of 123-sized rechargeable batteries you could use with this? Something RCR but that doesn't cause the problems that the 3.7v ones do? Maybe a LiFePO chemistry, so you can get the improved brightness from 2 cells in the 6v+ range but still recharge?


Given that the output on Max is the same on 2x3.0V CR123A as 2x3.7V standard Li-ion (LiCoO2), I expect 3.0V LiCoO2 or LiFePO would still be as taxed as the regular 3.7V cells on max. And as Helmut pointed out, the low battery detection doesn't work on multiple cells.

Effectively, if you want to run on 2x rechargeable sources on near-maximal output levels, you are limited to IMR cells only (with caveat that you need to top-up frequently to ensure you don't accidentally over-discharge). Safer all around to just use a good protected 18650 - the difference in output is pretty negligible anyway. I am running mine on 1xAW 18650.

FYI, I am also using the Turbohead. As Nokoff noted, it isn't that much larger than the standard head.


----------



## tadbik

Helmut.G said:


> because the compact one is more suitable for edc is my reason.


 
According to Thrunite this flashlight designed for police officers. For me it's replacing the Magcharger so it's compact enough even with the turbo head. For EDC I've got an EZ AA Nitecore.


----------



## Helmut.G

tadbik said:


> According to Thrunite this flashlight designed for police officers. For me it's replacing the Magcharger so it's compact enough even with the turbo head. For EDC I've got an EZ AA Nitecore.


I'm not a police officer and I bought one. I would like to carry it bezel down in the holster it comes with and according to the review this doesn't work with the turbo head, so this is why I want to have both heads.
Sure you and others are free to have a different opinion but it's one possible reason.


----------



## CQ73

I guess the only reason to use 2 rechargeable 123 cells would be cross-compatibility with other devices, and I'm not so sure those other devices can use the RCR123s in any chemistry.

By "overdischarge" you mean "risk venting with flame" right?


----------



## selfbuilt

CQ73 said:


> By "overdischarge" you mean "risk venting with flame" right?


No. With unprotected Li-ions, the risk is if you discharge them to the point where the light dims significantly. At that point, you have taken the cells far below a safe voltage for recharging, and the cells need to be discarded. Typically "venting with flame" is a (thankfully rare) characteristic of primary CR123A.

The risk with Li-ions comes from trying to recharce a damaged cell - the risk with primary CR123A comes in trying to discharge them (especially in series, if they are not well balanced for chemistry and capacity).


----------



## Fatso

Thanks for that Battery info. I heard about it but don't really understand it. I just recharge when it starts to dim slightly or steps down in levels. is that right?

I love you reviews. I bought several lights because of them and have no regret about buying any of them..
Your the man!


----------



## selfbuilt

Fatso said:


> Thanks for that Battery info. I heard about it but don't really understand it. I just recharge when it starts to dim slightly or steps down in levels. is that right?


That's fine for regular protected cells. But regular top-ups are the best idea. The protection circuit is really a safety stop-gap - it's not intended that you should run down cells far enough to trigger it. I do so only for the sake of comparison in my reviews (but that also means I go through a lot of rechargeable cells). Unprotected cells must be topped up frequently - I personally recommend everyone who uses them have a DMM on hand to regularly check the resting voltage.

You'll find a lot more info the "electronics - batteries included" subforum here on CPF. I recommend everyone check out the discussions there - its full of incredibly valuable information from the battery experts.


----------



## SkyPup

Thanks for the great review on this torch. I have two Fenix TK21s and a Fenix TK35 and three Olight M-20s for weapon lights, I just ordered the Thrunite Scorpion with the Turbo Head to replace one of my Fenix TK21s.


----------



## Helmut.G

Also notice that the protection circuit as a last barrier only works well when you use your light on a high level.
If you drain your batteries until the protection kicks in in a low mode they are toast.


----------



## SkyPup

I just received my Scorpion with the Turbo head from Battery Junction last night and indeed it is quite a nice torch using two CR123s.. Took some getting used to the controls but after some trial and error everything works excellent. The infinite ramp up and down control is very nice too.

Compared the throw of my Fenix TK35 to the Scorpion visually in our horse pasture and they seem to be about equal so this will become one of my weapon mounted lights, along with the Olight M-20s with the upgraded Cree XML emitters (which are still on backorder from Battery Junction). 

Wonder if Olight's M-20X is going to be driven this hard?


----------



## vinhnguyen54

For those that have the turbo head...Do you guys think the turbo head add considerable throw?? I want to buy one but its kinda expensive at $32...Do you guys think its worth it? anymore beam shots on throw comparison please? Thanks!


----------



## zifnab69

The turbo head add Throw, but not considerable....to my opinion.
You can see a difference, but this flashlight is so bright that at 200M (600ft) you can see all you want ( need) with both head.... Do you really want to shot a plane with this flashlight ???
Effectively, perhaps thrunite can sell a scorpion and a scorpion (T) But having both head is perhaps a loose of money. ( but it's just my opinion)
( and Scorpion is really a wonderfull flashlight)


----------



## Fatso

Selfbuilt

I just got the Scorpion V2 and a turbo head in today. Fist thing I noticed is there is no O-ring on the tailcap thread are? Is this normal? I am just wondering if this light is waterproof with some sort of internal O-ring?
Any chance you could enlighten me about how thrunite keeps moisture from getting in the battery tube on this model?


----------



## Fatso

vinhnguyen54 said:


> For those that have the turbo head...Do you guys think the turbo head add considerable throw?? I want to buy one but its kinda expensive at $32...Do you guys think its worth it? anymore beam shots on throw comparison please? Thanks!


 
I like the turbo head. It tightens the hotspot and yes adds throw but if you can live without using the holster get it. If you use the holster than you won't be able to fit the light in with the Turbo head. You could put it in tail first and it barely closes but not very securely.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Nokoff

Fatso...here you go..lol I feel like I'm insulting you, nice username :thumbsup:




HKJ said:


> The O-ring is on the inside, I do mention it in my review, you can also just about see it in this picture:


 


Fatso said:


> Selfbuilt
> 
> I just got the Scorpion V2 and a turbo head in today. Fist thing I noticed is there is no O-ring on the tailcap thread are? Is this normal? I am just wondering if this light is waterproof with some sort of internal O-ring?
> Any chance you could enlighten me about how thrunite keeps moisture from getting in the battery tube on this model?


----------



## Fatso

selfbuilt said:


> That's fine for regular protected cells. But regular top-ups are the best idea. The protection circuit is really a safety stop-gap - it's not intended that you should run down cells far enough to trigger it. I do so only for the sake of comparison in my reviews (but that also means I go through a lot of rechargeable cells). Unprotected cells must be topped up frequently - I personally recommend everyone who uses them have a DMM on hand to regularly check the resting voltage.
> 
> You'll find a lot more info the "electronics - batteries included" subforum here on CPF. I recommend everyone check out the discussions there - its full of incredibly valuable information from the battery experts.



Thanks For that info. I been afraid of charging to soon but it seems that I should be charging more frequently.


----------



## Fatso

Nokoff said:


> Fatso...here you go..lol I feel like I'm insulting you, nice username :thumbsup:


 
Don't feel bad. lol. Being a chick everyone thinks it offends me but it really doesn't.. No worries..
Back to Subject. Awesome!! I feel better now after seeing that picture..
I'm heading over to your review right after this!


----------



## selfbuilt

Fatso said:


> Back to Subject. Awesome!! I feel better now after seeing that picture..


Yes, I didn't include a pic in my review, but the o-ring is located on the _inside_ the battery tube, where the head screws down for contact. A fairly unique arrangement, but it should work as well.


----------



## zifnab69

Do you really think there is a difference between 18650 and 2 CR123 on high ?
I try with 18650 ultrafire XSL 2600 mah, ( green) and 2 cr123 "surfire" ( new) and i can't see any output difference ( each gives lots of lumens) .
I take photos with both and well.... impossible to see the difference.
(i have the neutral white scorpion)


----------



## Helmut.G

Received mine. will take some comparison shots with 2xIMR16340 vs 18650.


----------



## selfbuilt

zifnab69 said:


> Do you really think there is a difference between 18650 and 2 CR123 on high ?


The detailed tables in the review answer that question fairly well. In terms of the max output of the ramp mode, RCR/CR123A is only about 5% brighter than 1x18650 over the first few mins. In the Momentary mode, it is closer to a 9% difference.

While measurable with a lightmeter, I don't think you can notice a 9% difference after swapping out the cells. You certainly won't notice a 5% one.


----------



## Fatso

Selfbuilt
Do 2xAW IMR 18350 Cells fit in the Scorpion V2? Or is the IMR 18650 just as good? 
I'm guessing the 2x18350 will be brighter right?


----------



## zifnab69

selfbuilt said:


> The detailed tables in the review answer that question fairly well.



Yes i have read that. But just looking at the "light" after swapping batteries i cant notice any 
Thank you for your answers


----------



## selfbuilt

Fatso said:


> Selfbuilt
> Do 2xAW IMR 18350 Cells fit in the Scorpion V2? Or is the IMR 18650 just as good?
> I'm guessing the 2x18350 will be brighter right?


They should fit, but I haven't tested them. And yes, 2X sources are slightly brighter on momentary max, but not really worth it in my view. Best to stick with 18650 for the best runtime.

And you don't need to use IMR 18650 - standard high capacity protected 18650 will work fine. I do recommend IMR 16340 or 18650, if you plan to run at high levels (recognizing the limitation of unprotected IMR).

FYI, I'm going to be on holidays the next few days without internet access, so will check back in on all my threads on Monday. :wave:


----------



## Fatso

Ok I will just stick to 18650's.
Thanks for all the help.


----------



## infinus

I got one of the neutral versions of these and it's my new favorite light. The only light I have that's brighter and throw's more is my Eagletac M3C4.


----------



## Helmut.G

hey infinus, that's funny because my only LED light that as bright as my new scorpion and throws further is my eagletac M2C4 with 3xXR-E neutral white I bought two years ago.

but that's not the reason for my post. I have a User Interface related suggestion:

Instead of the current one:
5%-89% <> firefly <> strobe <> momentary
I would favor in this light a user interface as follows:
15%-89% <> 5%-15% <> firefly <> strobe <> momentary

this way you would have a bright and a low mode that stays on and can be ramped to the brightness you like.
with the current interface if you need a bright light that stays on, you have to ramp up the infinite mode first if it's set low, and when you need a dim light you have to ramp it back down. this takes some time, and in a situation where firefly isn't enough you will kill your night vision while ramping down if infinite is set to a high level.

it would be even better if the lowest output of the infinite mode could be lower than 5%.


----------



## zifnab69

5 différents channels its to much for me. I think just confusing.


----------



## Helmut.G

I think it would be easy to remember that way: all the way left (actually counterclockwise but I will refer to it as left) is bright light that stays on, 1. from all the way left dimmer light that stays on, 2nd from all the way left dimmest possible light that stays on. all the way to the right: momentary bright light.

of course I agree, this would make the light more complicated and that's not desirable in a tactical flashlight. but I think it would make the light noticably more versatile.


----------



## zifnab69

an extremmely versatile light it at the end not suitable for specialised work.
for me there is no need for <> 5%-15% and firefly mode. both can be replaced by <>0%-5%<>
so it can be <>5%-89%<> <>0%-5%<> <> strobe <> momentary


if i know i'll be in a forest, walking (hollidays) , i can use a high firefly (3%) to save my night vision, and a middle high (30%) for walking.
if i'm in police operation, stealth mode, low firefly (0.5%) middle high (50%) and 100 % strob, and momentary
if i'm in police operation searching for evidence in a house (every thing is secured) just something low for continuous ( to save energy) 20% or firefly high (5%)
if i'm outdoor, for controling cars ( police control) firefly high ( for looking driving licence without burning eyes, continuous middle / high (70%)

i don't think there is a need for anoter mode if firefly is ramping to


----------



## infinus

Apparently magnets can turn this light on and off..... something to be warned about before purchasing. Check out the marketplace for a more detailed thread on this.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?254025-Scorpion-V2-Turns-on-when-I-start-the-car


----------



## brightnorm

Please see my post (#22) in Marketplace for a simple solution.

Brightnorm


----------



## Fatso

anyone know of a holster that the scorpion with turbo head will fit in? The stock holster doesn't quite fit securely. 

So is the max 100% only on the momentary or does the ramping d 100% then drop to 89% for protection? I just want to be sure. Mine didn't have detailed instructions.


----------



## Helmut.G

Fatso said:


> anyone know of a holster that the scorpion with turbo head will fit in? The stock holster doesn't quite fit securely.
> 
> So is the max 100% only on the momentary or does the ramping d 100% then drop to 89% for protection? I just want to be sure. Mine didn't have detailed instructions.


only does 89%.


----------



## infinus

Although if I switch directly from max ramp to momentary max I'll be damned if I can notice any difference at all, even shining on a white wall.


----------



## Helmut.G

infinus said:


> Although if I switch directly from max ramp to momentary max I'll be damned if I can notice any difference at all, even shining on a white wall.


If you could tell them apart when someone else activates the light and doesn't tell you which mode it is in, you could probably try to get an entry in guiness' wold records for the most accurate visual center or something like that. the human integrating sphere 
there's no way to see a 10% difference in brightness unless comparing two lights side by side. and this wouldn't necessarily work because the two lights would have different LEDs.


----------



## infinus

You are right, however I would assume a 10% difference would be noticable when going DIRECTLY from max ramp on -> momentary max on, which you can do since you can switch modes with the light on.

Actually, looking back at the review, I think max ramp and momentary max ARE the same if you are using 18650's. I think momentary max is only brighter (3 amp flow) if you are using the other battery formats.


----------



## Helmut.G

looking at the numbers there's a 20 lumen difference that drops to 5 lumens after 1 min and stays there.

I really think the point is to learn not to care about numbers. Of course they are important, I need to know whether a light is 50 or 500 lumens to judge it, but many other factors such as UI, ergonomics, build details etc are just as important, a difference in lumens smaller than two times more/less is nothing if the not so bright light has some other advantage I would recommend everybody to go for it. I choose the Scorpion because I wanted to have a real bright, but also very solid light and I like the UI. I knew I wouldn't get the claimed 750 lumens with a 18650 and bought it anyway.


----------



## infinus

I wish I could figure out why mine behaves so funky when I try to lock it out. Sometimes it turns the strobe on, sometimes it just becomes unresponsive (button pushes simply do nothing). Usually I have to fully remove the tailcap and reinsert it to get it working like normal again. If I leave the tailcap tight I have no issues. Other than this small issue I really like the light, especially since I got a neutral.


----------



## Helmut.G

infinus said:


> I wish I could figure out why mine behaves so funky when I try to lock it out. Sometimes it turns the strobe on, sometimes it just becomes unresponsive (button pushes simply do nothing). Usually I have to fully remove the tailcap and reinsert it to get it working like normal again. If I leave the tailcap tight I have no issues. Other than this small issue I really like the light, especially since I got a neutral.


can you try to make a video?
no need to talk, just make it clear what you are doing and what is happening.
also maybe take a picture of the inside of the tailcap? sounds like a defect to me.


----------



## infinus

I can try to later tonight.


----------



## Fatso

Numbers aren't that important to me but I was just curious because like infinus stated I thought I would see the difference when switching from ramping to momentary. 
I wanted a really bright tuff light and this is it! I love my catapult's build which is why I knew I'd like the Scorpion.

Still. Do you guys know a holster that it fits into with the turbo head on it? I was thinking Maxpedition's 5" sheath but it only adjusts to 6.25" max.? Anyone?


----------



## infinus

I find I can actually get mine to fit into the included holster lens first if I work it in a bit. If you find something that's a bit easier though let me know.


----------



## Fatso

infinus said:


> I find I can actually get mine to fit into the included holster lens first if I work it in a bit. If you find something that's a bit easier though let me know.


 
I can squeeze mine in too but the velcro latches on only at the tip of the flap only 1/4" holding on. I will let you know. I just ordered the 5" and a universal sheath.. I might buy the Top load case from Ray Tactical.


----------



## badkarmaiii

The Scorpion is hard to withdraw from the included sheath due to he piped mouth edge. I'd like to see a bezel-down tactical holster like I have for my Surefires.
With a Turbo Head on the way, carrying options are only going to get more interesting...

Thanks,
Lee


----------



## Fatso

I have three different sheaths coming just for the turbo head option. I'll let you guys know what I come up with..


----------



## Xak

selfbuilt said:


> Sorry I missed this question the other day. Yes, the overall brightness is the same. The beamshot pics don't really capture the dynamic range of outputs well (cameras never do). In real life, the main noticeable difference is in throw.
> 
> 
> Well, it's not that bad either - I'd consider it fairly close.  You have to keep in mind the Scorpion is continuously-variable, so have a much wider range of outputs (and in that context, outperforms PWM-based lights). If you only offer a few levels, it's typically easier to optimize for them (i.e. harder to optimize all the outputs on the Scorpion).
> 
> 
> Hard to know. But in my experience, Olight typically optimizes for a balance between output, heat and efficiency in M20/M21-class lights (i.e. may not be driven as hard as the Scorpion). There's a possibility I may be reviewing this drop-in - not sure yet, though.
> 
> 
> Good catch, I hadn't noticed it in there originally (i.e. covered in a lot of goop).



Do you have any plans to review the M20 XML drop-in? (Sorry to go OT)


----------



## selfbuilt

Xak said:


> Do you have any plans to review the M20 XML drop-in? (Sorry to go OT)


Yes. ETA not finalized, though.


----------



## uberjeff

Thanks for the very thorough review. I wasn't planning on spending quite so much on my next light, but the performance of the Scorpion with the Turbo Head won me over. It looks like it does everything you could want well. I'll be picking one up shortly.


----------



## brightnorm

Fatso said:


> I can squeeze mine in too but the velcro latches on only at the tip of the flap only 1/4" holding on. I will let you know. I just ordered the 5" and a universal sheath.. I might buy the Top load case from Ray Tactical.


 
I stretched mine with the Scorpion in it until the flap completely covered the velcro. It's just a matter of frequently and strongly stretching the holster by hand, then leaving the Scorpion/turbo head in it over night fully stretched. It may take a while, but soon it will fit surprisingly well. You can also stretch the width a bit by "working" the light around in the holster, and by using successively thicker inserts (wood dowels, thicker flashlights,etc). 

I have been doing this for years with slightly under-size holsters. Never had a problem.

Brightnorm


----------



## Xak

brightnorm said:


> I stretched mine with the Scorpion in it until the flap completely covered the velcro. It's just a matter of frequently and strongly stretching the holster by hand, then leaving the Scorpion/turbo head in it over night fully stretched. It may take a while, but soon it will fit surprisingly well. You can also stretch the width a bit by "working" the light around in the holster, and by using successively thicker inserts (wood dowels, thicker flashlights,etc).
> 
> I have been doing this for years with slightly under-size holsters. Never had problem.
> 
> Brightnorm



Right. First thing you do with a new holster is wrap the gun it is made for in the thick plastic packaging the holster came in and force it in the holster for a day or 2. It will fit perfectly after that.


----------



## OzCorndog

great review. Another torch thatr I want to buy. Appesr that I have to put on more weight to fit it on a larger belt with all the other gear I carry.


----------



## jcalvert

brightnorm said:


> I stretched mine with the Scorpion in it until the flap completely covered the velcro. It's just a matter of frequently and strongly stretching the holster by hand, then leaving the Scorpion/turbo head in it over night fully stretched. It may take a while, but soon it will fit surprisingly well. You can also stretch the width a bit by "working" the light around in the holster, and by using successively thicker inserts (wood dowels, thicker flashlights,etc).
> 
> I have been doing this for years with slightly under-size holsters. Never had a problem.
> 
> Brightnorm



While checking out "selfbuilt's" usual comprehensive, yet concise review of the Scorpion V2, I noted the apparent need for a better holster that would also accommodate the Turbo head, so I hope you'll find the following link for the Maxpedition Universal Sheath will fit the bill (rather light). http://shopholsters.com/maxpedition-universal-flashlight-sheath.html . Maxpedition makes high quality products and I use this particular model for my Malkoff HoundDog & Wildcat which have very similar dimensions as the Scorpion V2 w/ the Turbo head. I hope this helps!

John


----------



## Capt. Nemo

Can anyone check to see if this light will work in the Blackhawk Flashlight holster (with the Mod-u-lok designed for the Gladius) in a bezel up configuration?


----------



## zifnab69

Firefly Is very usefull . Actually on hollydays in m'y familly. We sleep in the same room with my little childes and each night i use it to go to bed... Very usefull. But a bit to powerfull


----------



## scot

I use the firefly mode all the time. If you have a Quark AA2, firefly on the Scorpion V2 is in between moonlight and low.


----------



## JumpingJackFlash

Capt. Nemo said:


> Can anyone check to see if this light will work in the Blackhawk Flashlight holster (with the Mod-u-lok designed for the Gladius) in a bezel up configuration?


 
It fits rather nicely. You of course need to lock out the tail cap switch and rotate the flashlight clip, if attached, facing outwards


----------



## liam_995

Very nice review!

Based on it; I bought the Scorpion - and am very impressed by it!!

FYI: Your review clearly showed me how the lockout function worked - something the included instruction manual was completely MIA on.:naughty:

Thanks again!!

:thumbsup:


----------



## Alphanumeric

Damn you, selfbuilt. You owe me $215. Well, I guess the extra sixty for the PD30 was my fault.


----------



## light36

*Thank you for a excellent review Selfbuilt:thumbsup:. I bought my thrunite Scorpio + turbo head based on your super review a few weeks ago and it performs perfect . Always a pleasure to read your reviews .*


----------



## selfbuilt

Glad you are enjoying your Scorpions. Here's an additional 100-yard comparison from my latest batch:


----------



## SkyPup

Nice! I purchased my Thrunite Scorpion through Battery Junction based on your review and it is one of my favorites!


----------



## bickford

A small movie of the Thrunite Scorpion V2.



BICKFORD


----------



## zifnab69

idea for a new turbo head.
it'll be a great idea if thrunite release a turbo head with a lens instead of a reflector.
with a lens it's possible to have a Flood-to-Throw Zooming head. 
i buy a very low price flashlight with this kind of head and it have a incredible throw "at max".
i think, with the "thrunite" engine, this kind of head will be a must have .
Of course it's not waterproff, but it's not a problem for me.


----------



## flipsyde

Anyone able to find any tactical holsters that will fit the regular head or turbo one? 

I found some ones I really like but it seems like they are only sold in Europe. http://www.euro-security.info/euro-security.info/en/flashlights/holders/63

I would definitely snatch up the LHU-14 if I had the chance. If anyone could find a way to buy them in the States or knows of something similar, let me know! 

Great review on this product as well. This is the review that finally made up my mind on what light I want to get.


----------



## CamoNinja

flipsyde them are some nice holsters.


----------



## 18inch

vinhnguyen54 said:


> For those that have the turbo head...Do you guys think the turbo head add considerable throw?? I want to buy one but its kinda expensive at $32...Do you guys think its worth it? anymore beam shots on throw comparison please? Thanks!


 
I just got mine , I think its a nice addition... the throw is better and it gives you a wider lighting area also.. and its always nice to have an extra head just in case...

btw the flashlight is awsome running it with a single AW 18650 2900mah... thank you selfbuilt for the great review that helped me with my purchase!! lovecpf


----------



## scaramanga

I bought my Scorpion V2 mainly because of this awesome review so a big thanks goes out to selfbuilt! I just got mine today and really happy with it. The interface was very easy to learn and that firefly mode, is going to be useful for me. Oh yeah, I went for the turbohead also... Very nice indeed. Though I wish it had some form of knurling or was even marked as 'Scorpion' or 'ThruNite' like the original head because it basically renders the flashlight "nameless", save for the letters TN on the switch.


----------



## Pierre Niemans

Hi,
Thanks for the review.

I just have mine but I have a donut with the two head.


----------



## lites

Great review, I was going to get a catapult as i wanted a good 1 x 18650 thrower but now ive read thgis review i think a scorpion v3 and turbo head will do. . . anyone got any other ideas


----------



## JerBear

I'm very tempted to buy this light based off of your review for my EDC as a LEO-to-be. However theres one major drawback for me about this light: why are the strobe and max modes only momentary? Why limit the user to have to hold the button to keep the function active?




There are times when I want to keep the max mode on high by clicking the button and leaving it on, I dont want to have to hold down the button, that severly handicaps my actions. I understand I can set the variable output to high and use that, but I need a dedicated mode for a medium setting as well and i'm not going to re-ramp the light everytime I want to change from medium to high just so I don't have to hold down the button. I'll probably still end up getting this light being I can't find a more powerful tactical single hand operated light for an EDC size, but the fact that high mode is only momentary bugs the crap out of me. Otherwise very impressive light


----------



## Helmut.G

Pierre Niemans said:


> Hi,
> Thanks for the review.
> 
> I just have mine but I have a donut with the two head.


how bad is the donut? a light to medium donut hole is normal.
My Scorpion also has got a pretty strong donut hole, I was not pleased when I first got the light. But it never disturbed me actually using the light, not a single time - even though it's clearly visible, not only on the white wall! I don't even notice it anymore.




lites said:


> Great review, I was going to get a catapult as i wanted a good 1 x 18650 thrower but now ive read thgis review i think a scorpion v3 and turbo head will do. . . anyone got any other ideas


the scorpion turbo will have enough throw for most situations, but if you want a dedicated thrower light it's not it. I'm not sure if the catapult works with 1x18650.


----------



## CamoNinja

No donut holes with either head for me, and yes the catapult will work on one 18650.


----------



## selfbuilt

CamoNinja said:


> and yes the catapult will work on one 18650.


No, it doesn't. On 1x18650, I got nothing but moonlight mode at every level on my Catapult V3 and V2 XM-L. From my V3 review:


----------



## CamoNinja

Sorry bout that. I thought it did.


----------



## Pierre Niemans

Helmut.G said:


> how bad is the donut? a light to medium donut hole is normal.
> My Scorpion also has got a pretty strong donut hole, I was not pleased when I first got the light. But it never disturbed me actually using the light, not a single time - even though it's clearly visible, not only on the white wall! I don't even notice it anymore.


 
More lignt in the edge with a dark center.
When I use it to see my car at 15 meter, I don't see the center.
I returned it to my seller and now I wait for a new one.

What "a light to medium donut hole" seems ?
Sorry neighbor, I'm french


----------



## selfbuilt

Pierre Niemans said:


> What "a light to medium donut hole" seems ?
> Sorry neighbor, I'm french


Il veut dire quelque part entre un trou légèrement perceptible et un trou assez notable est normal.


----------



## Pierre Niemans

Thanks :wave:


----------



## eh123456

I have just received my Scorpion V2, have only played with it for about half an hour and I have a problem.
I set the Infinite Brightness to max and saved it. On 2 occasions (right, not just a coincidence), when I turned on the light, the beam flickers slightly for about 30 seconds and turned itself off completely, the light could then be turned on again with no problem.
I was using Panasonic 18650 2900mah if it matters.

Did I do anything wrong ?


----------



## bickford

Have you tried with another battery ?

Do the test ....

BICK


----------



## eh123456

Shortly after I posted my original message, I noticed the problem was getting real bad, the problem happened very often, but the beam only flickered for about 10-20 seconds without turning off itself.
I suspected it could be the battery also, so I changed to a Panasonic 3100mah, tested for about 50 times (on/off), no problem.
Then I changed back to the original battery, tested for maybe 100 times (on/off), also no problem.
Seems like the problem is gone, any clue ?
Could it be the tail cap wasn't closed "properly" at the very beginning ?


----------



## Helmut.G

eh123456 said:


> Shortly after I posted my original message, I noticed the problem was getting real bad, the problem happened very often, but the beam only flickered for about 10-20 seconds without turning off itself.
> I suspected it could be the battery also, so I changed to a Panasonic 3100mah, tested for about 50 times (on/off), no problem.
> Then I changed back to the original battery, tested for maybe 100 times (on/off), also no problem.
> Seems like the problem is gone, any clue ?
> Could it be the tail cap wasn't closed "properly" at the very beginning ?


Possible. the tailcap loosens very easily on my example.


----------



## gsteve

I just weny outside with a tm11 and the v2 and the v2 did very well.


----------



## Hellequin

gsteve said:


> I just weny outside with a tm11 and the v2 and the v2 did very well.



Is that the Thrunite TN11 against the v2? And was the v2 fitted with the turbo head? I'd be interested to hear how the throw compares between those two...


----------



## AutoTech

Hellequin said:


> Is that the Thrunite TN11 against the v2? And was the v2 fitted with the turbo head? I'd be interested to hear how the throw compares between those two...



TM = tiny monster.


----------



## gsteve

Yes TM... and for the difference in size im loving the scorp. If anyone makes something like sized to it yet better. Please let me know.


----------



## infinus

Thrunite!  Check out the Thrunite TN11. I think it's better than the Scorpion V2 w/Turbo Head. Partly because I dislike the Scorpions switch, but also partly because I just like the build better.


----------



## gsteve

how does the tn11 perform against the v2 with turbo head?


----------



## Pierre Niemans

I don't have problem anymore of donut because after dismissal and reception of a new one which did not function, I had a refund.
The system of switch looked kind.


----------



## infinus

gsteve said:


> how does the tn11 perform against the v2 with turbo head?



I wish that someone that had both and had capabilities of measuring both would post something. I used to have a Scorpion V2 w/turbo head and currently have a TN11. I "think" the TN11 out performs the scorpion v2. Hard to compare though going off of memory.


----------



## gsteve

sounds like its time for another review!!!!


----------



## selfbuilt

infinus said:


> I wish that someone that had both and had capabilities of measuring both would post something. I used to have a Scorpion V2 w/turbo head and currently have a TN11. I "think" the TN11 out performs the scorpion v2. Hard to compare though going off of memory.





gsteve said:


> sounds like its time for another review!!!!


I will be reviewing the TN11, and comparing it to the Scorpion V2 Turbo. Just received the light, so haven't had a chance to do comparative testing yet, but it looks like the lights use the same reflector (i.e. identical head openings and overall dimensions). So if they are driven to comparable levels, beam patterns should be the same.

You will have to bear with me a bit though, I have at least four reviews (of six lights) that have to go up first ... :sweat:


----------



## AutoTech

selfbuilt said:


> I will be reviewing the TN11, and comparing it to the Scorpion V2 Turbo. Just received the light, so haven't had a chance to do comparative testing yet, but it looks like the lights use the same reflector (i.e. identical head openings and overall dimensions). So if they are driven to comparable levels, beam patterns should be the same.
> 
> You will have to bear with me a bit though, I have at least four reviews (of six lights) that have to go up first ... :sweat:



Do you mean same size head as turbo head? (presume you do)


----------



## infinus

I wondered if it was the same head..... can't wait selfbuilt!


----------



## selfbuilt

AutoTech said:


> Do you mean same size head as turbo head? (presume you do)


Yes, the external styling is different, but the overall dimensions of the head seem the same. The SS bezel ring looks identical. The reflectors look to have identical dimensions.


----------



## AutoTech

selfbuilt said:


> Yes, the external styling is different, but the overall dimensions of the head seem the same. The SS bezel ring looks identical. The reflectors look to have identical dimensions.



Just what I gambled on when buying the TN11, good to hear, thanks. 

Looking forward to the review.

Seems strange to me that thrunite released the tn11 with the scorpion about. I don't think most people realise the tn11 is essentially a scorpion with turbo head already installed yet, but when someone confirms it will it kill most scorpion sales?. It's a bit like bmw releasing a car with the same engine as an m3 but calling it smething else.


----------



## ZapBeeb

I am looking for a tactical light for night airsoft games and the
scorpion V2 seems to be a good fit.

Very bright, tailcap switch, good throw.

Is there anything else you'd recommend?


----------



## madecov

ZapBeeb said:


> I am looking for a tactical light for night airsoft games and the
> scorpion V2 seems to be a good fit.
> 
> Very bright, tailcap switch, good throw.
> 
> Is there anything else you'd recommend?




Klarus XT-10, smaller ans also has rear switch control


----------



## selfbuilt

ZapBeeb said:


> I am looking for a tactical light for night airsoft games and the
> scorpion V2 seems to be a good fit.
> Very bright, tailcap switch, good throw.
> Is there anything else you'd recommend?


Hard to say, there are certainly a lot of good XM-L-based throwers out there now. In addition to V2, there's the TN11 and others like the Lumintop TD15X and P16X, 4Sevens X7, Xeno G42, etc, among my recent reviews. Also plenty more XM-L lights with less throw (or XP-G lghts with more throw but less overall output). Hard to recommend anything specific ... a lot of choices.


----------



## ZapBeeb

Thank you very much for dropping in...

I looked a bit the other lights you mentioned and i must say that, at
the moment the V2 still looks the more interesting of the lot. 

The thing i really don't like is the shape of the tailcap with the rounded
rotary control.


----------



## madecov

The second copy of my Scorpion v2 is perfect (#1 was DOA). If anyone is interested, Bianchi large size chemical spray holder carries the light with stndard head perfectly. It fits as if it was made just for the light.


----------



## Nachtwacht

Great light. For law enforcement I wish I could change the UI though. If only I could set the four positions as follows:

1) Constant-on dimmable with memory (I'd preset this at 10-20 lumens for admin tasks and navigation).
2) Also constant-on dimmable with memory (I'd preset this at around 150-200 lumens, e.g. for indoor use in smaller spaces or vehicle searches)
3) Also constant-on dimmable with memory (I'd preset this at maximum brightness)
4) Momentary at maximum brightness, with the strobe accessible from this position by fast double-tapping the switch and keeping it pressed down on the second 'tap'. (exactly the same as the IT WX-150, Streamlight TLR1-S or SureFire Z2-S (the last one using a triple tap)). 

To me this would be more practical. Just my personal preference.

To Madecov: thanks for the bianchi holder tip.


----------



## Helmut.G

True, a single constant-on position isn't enough on a light with that kind of brightness range.

I personally would love the following UI:

1) Moonlight
2) Dimmable 10-75 lumens
3) Dimmable 100-max lumens
4) momentary max


----------



## jamjam

To selbuilt:

(Just noticed some cpf member also report donut hole on their sample, it looks like a random case though)

Just got my Scorpion V2 Neutral (T5 emitter) few days ago, I really like it a lot. However when I do white wall hunting, I noticed there is a very subtle "donut hole" with my sample. Its actually not a full circle donut hole, but more like a random shade. It is very subtle, it is only noticeable when white wall hunting, and I can only see it when the brightness level is 50% and lower, anything brighter it will be gone (eye perception perhaps?). When I put the light just few inches away from the wall, it looks like a shape of flower with 4 petals. I try it with both regular and turbo head and same outcome, so I assume the problem lies on the emitter, and not the reflectors. I do not have this with my other light, so I am curious if anyone else have the same problem? Not that its a big deal, just wanna know if it is common with the T5, or even XM-L. Thanks in advance.


----------



## selfbuilt

jamjam said:


> Its actually not a full circle donut hole, but more like a random shade. It is very subtle, it is only noticeable when white wall hunting, and I can only see it when the brightness level is 50% and lower, anything brighter it will be gone (eye perception perhaps?). When I put the light just few inches away from the wall, it looks like a shape of flower with 4 petals. I try it with both regular and turbo head and same outcome, so I assume the problem lies on the emitter, and not the reflectors. I do not have this with my other light, so I am curious if anyone else have the same problem?


Hard to say without seeing a pic, but it doesn't sound abnormal. All XM-L lights can produce a 4-petal flower pattern up close (looks a little like a four-leaf clover as well). Not sure what you mean about the "random shade", but it is not uncommon to see minor variations in a hotspot with smooth reflectors.


----------



## jamjam

selfbuilt said:


> Hard to say without seeing a pic, but it doesn't sound abnormal. All XM-L lights can produce a 4-petal flower pattern up close (looks a little like a four-leaf clover as well). Not sure what you mean about the "random shade", but it is not uncommon to see minor variations in a hotspot with smooth reflectors.



Thanks for the reply. After closer observation, I think the "random shade" is actually cause by the opening of the reflector (The opening closer to the emitter) It looks like a smaller dark ring in the middle of the hotspot, with some very subtle cloudy shadow inside the dark ring, thats why I call it "random shade".

I didn't see that in your white wall hunting picture, thats why I wonder if your sample also exhibit the same problem.


----------



## selfbuilt

jamjam said:


> It looks like a smaller dark ring in the middle of the hotspot, with some very subtle cloudy shadow inside the dark ring, thats why I call it "random shade".


Ah, now I understand. I've seen something similar on a number XM-L lights (i.e. the small dark ring around the center of the hotspot). I suspect it is a focusing issue with the reflectors, but am not sure of its source. And my Thrunite Scorpion does have it as well - it just doesn't show up in the beamshots. The effect is subtle, and hard to describe (i.e. not a solid ring, just a portion of it - which is why it looks "random" in a way). You can only see it on a pure white wall.


----------



## jamjam

selfbuilt said:


> Ah, now I understand. I've seen something similar on a number XM-L lights (i.e. the small dark ring around the center of the hotspot). I suspect it is a focusing issue with the reflectors, but am not sure of its source. And my Thrunite Scorpion does have it as well - it just doesn't show up in the beamshots. The effect is subtle, and hard to describe (i.e. not a solid ring, just a portion of it - which is why it looks "random" in a way). You can only see it on a pure white wall.



Ya, exactly what i meant. The dark ring is not a full circle, more like a 3/4 circle. Anyway, it seems like its not unusual for Scorpion to have this problem, so I think I will let it go. Thanks a bunch!


----------



## Ken J. Good

Cool light...
Looks like it violates the Gladius patent on multiple fronts. Something the Chinese knock-off artists and their importers don't seem to have too much problem with.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,281,815.PN.&OS=PN/7,281,815&RS=PN/7,281,815


----------



## Nachtwacht

Ken J. Good said:


> Cool light...
> Looks like it violates the Gladius patent on multiple fronts. Something the Chinese knock-off artists and their importers don't seem to have too much problem with.
> 
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,281,815.PN.&OS=PN/7,281,815&RS=PN/7,281,815



Hello Ken,

I bought the original Blackhawk / Night-Ops Gladius in 2005 (also have a copy of your book on low-light engagements). 

The Thrunite Scorpion has been around for some time now (V1 + V2) and I wasn't aware of any patent infringement issues. It's pretty clear that it's a copy of the Gladius, but Thrunite is a dealer in the CPF Marketplace and I was under the assumption that they made a deal with Blackhawk / Night-Ops (or whatever company that holds the patent rights). 

Are you sure about this? 

Regards,

Nachtwacht.


----------



## Xacto

Like Nachtwacht, I too have your book on low-light engagements and read it back to front during my lunchbreaks (even though I do not need that knowledge for any other reason than sheer interest and curiousity on that subject).

I never would/could shell out the 250 Euro a "real" Gladius costs, so that light - even though it started my flashoholism - will never find its way in my collection. So I must admit that I was glad when the Scorpion came out, because suddenly I could afford a light that uses the type of UI the Gladius has.

And although that Scorpion does fill the need for that type of UI in my collection, I actually do think about getting a Ledwave PEL-6, which is - if I understand this correctly - the legally correct, current make of the Blackhawk Gladius. That way my collection would have the "original" form of the Gladius and only a different lettering.

So somehow it becomes a full circle. ;-)

Cheers
Thorsten


----------



## Maxspam

Two questions before I pull the trigger on this light, If you half press the tailcap switch in the "momentary full brightness" mode and then rotate the ring to lockout will it keep the light on in full brightness? Secondly, Is there anywhere to acquire a neutral white version at this time?


----------



## Helmut.G

Maxspam said:


> Two questions before I pull the trigger on this light, If you half press the tailcap switch in the "momentary full brightness" mode and then rotate the ring to lockout will it keep the light on in full brightness?


The momentary full brightness mode is located on the opposite side of the lockout.
The sequence is (clock-wise): lock-out, constant-on, moonlight, momentary strobe, momentary max.

You can turn the light on in the programmable constant-on mode and lock it while on.



Maxspam said:


> Secondly, Is there anywhere to acquire a neutral white version at this time?


There's at least one german dealer that currently has the neutral version in stock but they won't ship international so that will likely not help you


----------



## selfbuilt

Maxspam said:


> Two questions before I pull the trigger on this light, If you half press the tailcap switch in the "momentary full brightness" mode and then rotate the ring to lockout will it keep the light on in full brightness?


Helmut is correct - you would have to program the infinite brightness/constant-on mode to full brightness to have it stay on max continuously. Although you physically lock out the switch from this mode, there is no need to - the constant on mode will leave the light on with a single press. There is no way to lock the light on from the momentary max mode (without first going through the other 3 modes to the constant-on mode).


----------

