# How to Kroll your Pelican M6 2320



## bykfixer (Jun 15, 2018)

So back in summer of 017 I went on an M6 by Pelican spree. For those who never heard of it, basically at one point a California light maker went the way of 6 volt cop light in a style not that different than a SureFire 6P or Streamlight TL2. Pentagon did an X2. The Pentagon and Pelican shared parts at some point. 






The 'Kroll'd' 2320

I acquired a silver 2320 (the M6 model number) from eBay in great shape, but broken. It seems the Pelican clicky sucks. Not reliable. So I played with it some and never figured out just why it didn't work. Alone the clicky worked perfect. As an assembly in the tailcap it would not 'click' to on, so I had a momentary only version.

Here at CPF it was said that a Kroll switch and a custom sleeve could convert a twisty M6 to clicky. The twisty version were the early kind and I've yet to see one of those. But my brain said to try a Kroll setup in my busted clicky version. I found that flashlight lens dot com still had a sleeve for them and the Sandwich Shoppe still had some Krolls left. Easy enough, right?

Folks, I would not be doing this how to if it were that simple. It appears that Pelican changed something internally at some point. It's not that hard to do this, but the former plug and play twisty to clicky conversion stuff needs a bit of tweaking. I have 3 of the 2320 and 2 of the 2390 and the flashlight lens sleeve did not fit them. It was too big by about 0.1mm. It has been said recently that the sleeve by Sandwich Shoppe is too long and too large for the 2320 clicky. One is being modified as I type this and the details will be told later. (Edit: 9/22/18 Yakaz is doing it but I didn't want to mention his name until he had it beyond a prototype. End edit)

I was able to shave a wee bit of girth from an FLL sleeve and use that one. I reported to FLL the dilema and stated I'd advise him of what took place. My dremel and a sanding drum took all of five minutes to remove enough alluminum to make it easily slide into my M6 tailcap. 

Before going any farther take note that the Kroll rubber boot is a goofy pointy thing that pokes out of the tailcap versus the stock flat disk-like boot that barely protrudes. The finished product I did ends up where you squish the goofy rubber dome to activate the light. I dialed mine in where momentary takes precedence and a definite effort is required to actually click it. I'll explain how in this thread. 

But first, the repair parts:




A Kroll switch/FLL sleeve assembly
Note the o'ring in the middle. Also note the spring protruding. The o'ring prevents the FLL sleeve and switch assembly from falling out during battery change. 





A M6 tailcap disassembled.
Note the Kroll switch comes with a boot attached. It gets removed for this and used later.





A look at the Sandwich Shoppe version of the sleeve.





Stock boot





The Kroll boot.

Now if that doesn't cause you to wince and turn away keep reading.

Like I said, a wee bit of dremel work took care of the oversize metal but... the o'ring causes you to have to apply a bit of force to drive home the sleeve. So some prep work should take place first because once it's home, removal isn't easy. So you dial in how much you want the switch to poke out. 





Basically you twist the switch into the sleeve until the spring pokes out of the sleeve. Click the switch to on.
Press the assembly onto the light until the spring makes contact and the light turns on. Twist down more for less switch poking out. I had mine where it was nearly as far out as possible and still make contact, then twisted a half turn for insurance. That makes it easier to momentary. 

The switch does not poke out enough to cause concern about accidental turn on. 
Once I got it dialed in the Kroll boot was placed inside the tailcap. I pressed the tailcap onto the light and applied pressure until the o'ring had moved down the threads and fastened it down. 
Then "click, click, click, click to enjoy the Kroll'd tailcap.


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## bykfixer (Jun 15, 2018)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?346686-Judco-Kroll-Switches
This thread mentions the Kroll. 
See posts 22+ for some variations of the Pelican M6 tailcap.

I used hobbyist needle nose pliers to disassemble the Pelican tailcap and the dental pic to remove the o'ring from the sleeve before scuffing away metal.





The before and after pic




Probably hard to tell in the photo, but the Kroll'd tailcap has less threads showing.
I actually liked that due to quicker battery swap ability. A couple of twists and the tailcap is off versus twist, twist, twist some more.

But....
Note the larger gap





FLL includes an additional o'ring but I found it too stout to be useful. It would pop out of the tailcap. So I used 4 side by side 10mm x 1mm and found that stretching that size to be thinner allows a second o'ring closer to the sleeve assembly.





Factory.
Note the thin spot between the body and threads makes a great place for additional water tightening.





The additional o'rings
A 15x 1mm might do well. But the included 25x1 was just too thick to use there.
FLL reccomends using the one included on the light bulb side of the factory o'ring. I just didn't think it would help. Like water proofing a basement from the inside instead of the outside it looked like to me. 

Anyway, at some point I'll do a post on disassembling the tailcap if anybody is interested.


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## peter yetman (Jun 16, 2018)

I just love these sort of threads, thanks Mike.
P


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## bykfixer (Jun 16, 2018)

I have some other ideas for the 2320 but am waiting for some further information from someone else about upcoming parts and pieces. 





All of these can work in a 2320.


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## yazkaz (Sep 23, 2018)

Some updates here...
The first of the two custom brass sleeves (aka Type A) is now available
https://www.ebay.com/itm/253891017654


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## yazkaz (Oct 19, 2018)

Another update.
Version B of the said switch sleeve now available
https://www.ebay.com/itm/253940553397








Any questions please PM me or ask here.
Thanks


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## bykfixer (Oct 19, 2018)

Good job sir!! 
I like how you've incorparated pre-014 and post 014 in the deal. 

Long live the Peli.


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## hsa (Oct 19, 2018)

I just got a Pelican light for my birthday, they are still as good as I remember from the 90's.


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## yazkaz (Oct 27, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> I like how you've incorparated pre-014 and post 014 in the deal.
> Long live the Peli.


The type B design is backwards compatible with the pre-2014 tail hosts with the collar ring installed, but since the collar ring is removable I would recommend the type A sleeve since more thread latching means more secure installation.
BTW the type B sleeves have been slightly modified for full compatibility with the post-2014 tail hosts. Tail/body gap length is now capped at less than 3mm total.

For those of you still interested in getting a NOS M3/M6 model, check out these links
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pelican-Bl...ff-or-momentary-end-2320-010-180/401595077198
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pelican-M3...-Xenon-Beam-W-Case-and-batteries/401539589670
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pelican-Fl...y-Lithium-Battery-w-Case-New-old/401539590698
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pelican-M3...-Xenon-Beam-W-Case-and-batteries/401539598801

All of these models can be converted to modern LED spec while the tailcap hosts are all compatible with my type A Kroll sleeve.


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## bykfixer (Oct 27, 2018)

Ok, so if you have the 2390 and the clicky fails will this work? Direct replacement? 

My kroll'd 2320 tailcap lights my 2390 but I hadn't tried to disassemble a 2390 switch. I found some gentley used 2390's as $99 new was not my idea of a good time. Yet it's a pretty good blast from the past light where it appears brighter than the numbers suggest with a pretty nice beam.


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## yazkaz (Oct 27, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> Ok, so if you have the 2390 and the clicky fails will this work? Direct replacement?
> My kroll'd 2320 tailcap lights my 2390 but I hadn't tried to disassemble a 2390 switch. I found some gentley used 2390's as $99 new was not my idea of a good time. Yet it's a pretty good blast from the past light where it appears brighter than the numbers suggest with a pretty nice beam.


I believe the Kroll housing should be compatible but since I've never handled a 2390 I'll have to be careful with my claim.
So, is the 2390 similar to the 2320 with the exception of the LED module? What about the rest of the design, including the tailcap? Does the tailcap feature a near-silent clicky?

A gently used 2390 for $99? This one is better
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pelican-23...-case-New-may-need-new-batteries/163053953191

Someone asked me to nab it but I still found it a bit too expensive. Perhaps the only reason to die for one is the stock HAIII hard ano. But then I already got another M3 (same HAIII OD) and M6 from the same seller.

BTW I got one of my post-2014 M6s stripped and reanodized in HAIII hard black. Looks great, but somehow looks like HAII on the outside......


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## bykfixer (Oct 28, 2018)

The top module is the LED. Bottom is the stock bulb module.
The left tailcap is the 2390. Right is a pre-2014 clicky. Both have the near silent soft clicky. 

Both can be direct swapped between the 2320 and 2390. The difference in tailcaps is the 2390 button protrudes a few mm further out but being spring loaded like the 2320, it isn't really different when tightened against batteries. 

And I bought my 2 2390's for $25 shipped. No box, no holster, no batteries. I just kept see-ing nip for $99+.


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## yazkaz (Oct 29, 2018)

bykfixer said:


> The top module is the LED. Bottom is the stock bulb module.
> The left tailcap is the 2390. Right is a pre-2014 clicky. Both have the near silent soft clicky.
> Both can be direct swapped between the 2320 and 2390. The difference in tailcaps is the 2390 button protrudes a few mm further out but being spring loaded like the 2320, it isn't really different when tightened against batteries.
> And I bought my 2 2390's for $25 shipped. No box, no holster, no batteries. I just kept see-ing nip for $99+.


There are differences even among pre-2014 tailcaps, see here




The clicky mecha that comes with the white plastic boot void fill seems to be weaker, and requires special attention during reinstallation..
If you screw the brass disc in till snug, then 95% you'll end up with stuck clicky operation. The key is to unscrew the disc by around 1/4 turn, then install the rest of the components. Then the resulting clicky will be fully functional again.
The one that comes with the aluminum boot void fill does not exhibit such issue. Everything screws in till snug and clicky operation is normal.


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## yazkaz (Nov 2, 2018)

Sandwich Shoppe aluminum Kroll sleeve modification
Stock (left), modified (right)







The stock sleeve is only compatible with pre-2014 tailcap hosts which feature full internal threading
Not sure if the removable collar ring can be used in conjunction of the stock sleeve...

The modified sleeve has been cut down to ~17mm in total height (~17.4mm original) and ~5.5mm in external thread height, to ensure optimal fitment inside post-2014 tailcap hosts which feature integrated collar area inside threads. The upper neck's diameter also needs to be trimmed down to ~19.3mm in order to pass through the collared area effectively.


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## yazkaz (Jan 16, 2019)

I'm able to source some spare M6 tailcap assys so anyone interested in the Kroll solution without touching the original tailcap (bundled with the light) then take a look at this


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## archimedes (Jan 16, 2019)

Let's please keep any more commercial eBay links out of the discussion thread here. Thanks.


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## bykfixer (Jan 16, 2019)

Man I gotta say I searched until my eyes watered a number of times and never found a source for preassembled M6 tail caps. Not even Pelican sold them.. Both black or silver? Holy Heartattack. Epic info yazkaz.
EPIC


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## yazkaz (Jan 17, 2019)

bykfixer said:


> Man I gotta say I searched until my eyes watered a number of times and never found a source for preassembled M6 tail caps. Not even Pelican sold them.. Both black or silver? Holy Heartattack. Epic info yazkaz.
> EPIC


Yes, both black and silver available at limited quantities, all presumably of earlier batch.
I'm surprised too...

Anyway let me know if you're interested
Have already emailed you last week regarding the find... check you inbox


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## yazkaz (Feb 2, 2020)

OK folks the replacement boot clones are finally available.
Silicone substrate, hardness (density) 70/100, in three colors (black, orange, GID).

Sales thread now available
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...oot-for-Pelican-M1-M3-M6-(incandescent-model)

Also...
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/v...-Tailcap-for-M6-(2320-etc-)-(HAIII-hard-black)


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## rrego (Mar 30, 2020)

Hi all, I recently picked up a Silver M6 incadescent, the model with the separate lamp from the reflector (will be my "user"). Are the silver lights hard anodized?

I also picked up NOS type II black M6 incandescent (battery symbol on tailcap). This will be for the collection.
**question on the aftermarket drop ins bykfixer - did you add an outter spring? I tried a 3.7V incan drop in, a SolarForce drop in without outter spring and with outter spring and they did not work. When I compared them side by side to the black lamp/reflector assembly, the Pelican lamp assembly is much longer than the P60 style LA and the SolarForce LED drop in. How did you get them to work? I've read the LF info and it says their LED drop ins are specifically designed for Pelican host (pocket where the lamp/drop in goes?).

I also picked up a HAIII (?) M3 (no battery symbol on tailcap). Is this pre-2014? It's dark grayish/greenish and feels "grippy/chalky"? I tried to run two 16500s and the brass lug in the tailcap smashed the negative end of the battery at the tail. The springs on the LA and the lug are very stiff :^( However, when I put two ET 14500s, it works fine. I can't figure it out, so....I'm running the 14500s for around the house use. If I need to use it for longer, then I'll put in the three CR123s it came with.

Will this Kroll switch not smash batteries in the M6 or M3? Is the spring softer? I really don't want to risk more Li-Ion batteries due to the brass lug in the OEM tailcap and would rather get this set up?

I really like these M6/M3 and it's just different from my Surefire lights.

Thanks for any info!


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## yazkaz (Mar 30, 2020)

@rrego

The light silver M6 (2320) is a rarity. It comes in HAII ano only and possibly with a twisty switch mechanism. It also comes with a focusable incan bulb design, as well as additional inner threads on the frontal battery tube side. I'd say, you may wish to consider this for collection.

BTW I also have original silver clicky tailcap spares available, should you want to swap out the entire twisty tailcap. I've personally checked (and reconditioned) every one of them, down to the stock clicky chassis, to ensure it works without issue. PM me for more info.

Meanwhile, you may want to consider the post-2014 M6 as regular user. As mentioned before, any host with the battery indicator etching on the tailcap should point to the post-2014 spec, which comes with a completely different stock clicky mecha design that I find it not as durable. In this case, replacing that clicky mecha with my type B Kroll assy is highly recommended.

AFAIK the M3 (3370) only comes in matt (thus the "chalky" feel) HAIII anodize in Hard Black (more towards charcoal grey IMO) and OD Green. All these are pre-2014 models.

Thje Kroll clicky assy's spring is likely to scratch the battery's -ve pad, but NOT enough to crush it.

As far as dropins are concerned, the M3/M6 requires a modified D26 module setup with longer +ve center spring. The LF module is one such example, having modified the entire lower skirt (heatsink and spring) just for this Peli application.

The other aftermarket module reported to work in this setup is the Malkoff. But that's pretty much it -- YMMV. For me I only stick to the LF ones. One will appreciate the LF design only after the module is installed and the entire light screwed back together.


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## bykfixer (Mar 30, 2020)

Rrego, great score. Especially the silver one. Mine arrived with a 1 piece bulb assembly and busted clicky. It would fire, not not stay on.

It's been a while but if I recall correctly, when using a P60 you just twist the head farther down the body and with a Malkoff you stretch the center spring a bit. No outter spring required. Screw the head back on with no batteries in the body and it should go farther on the barrel than with the factory module. 

Like yaz said, that bulb module in the silver one is super early and it's easier to find an honest politician than a replacement. So your options are Lumens Factory stuff, a Pentagon B-x2 replacement or you can find some Pelican bulb modules if you want to stay incan. 

I will take mine apart this evening and see how I did it.


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## rrego (Mar 30, 2020)

Awesome info guys! Thanks so much.

Dang, so maybe I will use the black one and save the sliver one.

Yazkaz - the silver one is a twisty switch. When I first got it, I swapped the black clicky internals with the silver internals, but I didn't realize at first that there was a difference. I didn't know the info that is in this thread. When I was done, the click did not work in the silver tailcap, so I switched them back. When I switched them back, the black worked as normal, but then the silver twist mechanism is now finicky and not 100% reliable (have to mess with it a little). From what I've read here, the brass ring inside might need to be adjusted? I might make some time to poke around in it again. I run the silver one on a 16650 at reduced brightness around the house, but I wanted to use that one, since I just like the sliver look, more than the standard black M6.

Yazkaz - your type b switch, is this a straight swap? Take out original psot 2014 clicky mechanism and install Kroll kit (only reusing the stock rubber boot? That easy?

Bykfixer - I'll have to check my black M6 as I don't remember if the head twists down further as you describe. I know the silver one does, so I might try the 3.7V incan drop in with the sliver head turned down.


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## bykfixer (Mar 30, 2020)

rrego, it was a Pentagon eX2 that will twist down farther. Not the Peli. A spring stretch got the Malkoff module going. But a thick plumbing type o'ring between the lens and module can also work. It forces the module to press against the battery more and makes it so you don't have to take a chance on damaging the module. 

I prefer the silver one as well. Hope you get the clicky working in it.


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## rrego (Mar 30, 2020)

thank you bykfixer! :thumbsup:


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## yazkaz (Mar 31, 2020)

rrego said:


> Yazkaz - the silver one is a twisty switch. When I first got it, I swapped the black clicky internals with the silver internals, but I didn't realize at first that there was a difference. I didn't know the info that is in this thread. When I was done, the click did not work in the silver tailcap, so I switched them back. When I switched them back, the black worked as normal, but then the silver twist mechanism is now finicky and not 100% reliable (have to mess with it a little). From what I've read here, the brass ring inside might need to be adjusted? I might make some time to poke around in it again. I run the silver one on a 16650 at reduced brightness around the house, but I wanted to use that one, since I just like the sliver look, more than the standard black M6.
> 
> Yazkaz - your type b switch, is this a straight swap? Take out original psot 2014 clicky mechanism and install Kroll kit (only reusing the stock rubber boot? That easy?


The silver twisty tail host should work with the pre-2014 stock clicky internals. Well, almost... 
I later found out there's some small difference between a stock twisty tailcap host and the stock clicky variant, in that certain components from the latter chassis may NOT fit into the former. But OTOH, once your remove the twisty internals I don't see why you should re-use them. Regardless of bulb type IMO you might just consider the upgrade -- in this case the type A Kroll assy for your silver tail host.

Meanwhile your post-2014 tailcap's clicky mecha will NOT work on a tail host that comes with full internal threads. Again, I find that the po-st2014 clicky mehanism is no reliable either: not only it gives you a weird deep clicky actuation feel, but also the main clicky plunger part may break apart after prolonged use, due to the plastic plunger casing being weakened, this detaching itself from the base PCB.

Last year I was maintaining some other customer's M6 (post-2014) during which the entire clicky plunger part just broke apart inside the chassis, causing the clicky to fail. In the end I had to sacrifice (ie. I didn't charge him) one type B Kroll assy to take care of the problem.

And YES, the type B Kroll assy is a straight swap after you remove everything from the tailcap host. Make sure you have your needle nose pliers ready.
Retention of the stock boot is OK, but again, I recommend getting silicone spares from me and keep the stock boot on reserve.


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## rrego (Mar 31, 2020)

Thanks Yazkaz...I thought I had posted this comment, but I guess I forgot to click "post"... :thinking:


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