# Solarforce M3 Announced (XM-L U2)



## LilKevin715

Details can be found on Solarforce's website (solarforce.hk).

It looks like a larger A001 head in terms of style, not bad looking at all IMO. The larger head diameter (~45mm) is much appreciated for the XM-L. However the head diameter is not as large as the M8 or the Masterpiece Pro 1 or 2. Pricing hasn't been announced yet.. but I wouldn't pay more than $35-40 for it though.


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## orbital

*Solarforce M3*

+ 

Complete XM-L Turbo head for your Solarforce P60 lights,, L2 ect. 
& other hosts (of same threading) 

3-mode,..up to 750lm @ 9V max

Length x diameter: 62 x *45mm*


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## Eric242

*Re: Solarforce M3*

If the reflector is as deep as the head itself appears to be it might get some decent throw for a XM-L on a P60 host.

Eric


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## Mike_TX

So, it sounds like it comes with a barrel extension, since it can take either one or two 18650's, for example (?)

Wonder why it takes a full off/on cycle to change modes, as opposed to a half-press. Otherwise, it sounds like a nice light.

.
.


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## LV426

It's just the head, and not a complete light, I guess...


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## orbital

*Re: Solarforce M3*



Eric242 said:


> If the reflector is as deep as the head itself appears to be it might get some decent throw for a XM-L on a P60 host.
> 
> Eric



My Dereelight DBS head is only few_ mm_ wider, 
there could be some goodness tucked in this M3 turbo head >>

Even if it's $50, it could be interesting. {looks well made, like the L2T host}


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## don.gwapo

I would like to put that head on L2M in 16340 form. I will call it "shawty" = shorty thrower. .


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## Zeruel

*Re: Solarforce M3*

Looks good, and on a L2T body too.
Can't wait to try it on a L2M.


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## Blitzwing

*Re: Solarforce M3*

Must......resist......


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## Bevis

wow what a flash light. i got impressed. i want this soon. Yeah i will check all details.


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## Mike_TX

LV426 said:


> It's just the head, and not a complete light, I guess...



Oh. I missed that ... so it's just a head, and therefore will take either one or two battery hosts.

Wonder how many (and which) of the Chinese hosts it's compatible with (?)

.
.


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## SDM44

I wonder if the M3 head will be available without a drop in, so I can use one of my custom built ones.


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## texas cop

SDM44 said:


> I wonder if the M3 head will be available without a drop in, so I can use one of my custom built ones.



I think this one might just call for triple XM-L or quad XP-G. I think I need to order one to strip down.


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## maxtherabbit

I've got a solarforce l2p one the way - it looks really nice and everything I've read about it is complementary...

does anyone have _anything_ bad to say about solarforce stuff?


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## Blitzwing

$40 for the head alone homiez. It and body combo's are up on the SF Sales site. 

*must resist*


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## LilKevin715

Thanks for the heads up, ordered mine and hopefully it will ship soon.


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## LV426

Oh this economy, this economy...


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## don.gwapo

Waiting for US dealers to have it stock. I would love to put this head with a L2M in short form. :thumbsup:.


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## jake25

Solarforce is killing US dealers with profit margins :thumbsdow. Can't decide if I want this or not


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## LilKevin715

New toy arrived today!




 

 

 


 

 

 

 


 

 

 

 


I'll add more info later such as tailcap current draw with various battery combinations. As far as the finish of the light I have the newer style L2's, L2T, as well as old and newer style L2P's to compare. As far as I can tell the pill solarforce uses is not a standard P60 type of pill. The Lens does have a AR coating applied and the reflector is spot/dust free. I'll post beamshots later when it gets dark enough.


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## LilKevin715

Here are some pictures comparing the anodizing on the M3 head to some various hosts. Anodizing can vary from model to model, and even different batches of the same model.

Old L2P left, semi-old L2P right


 
My oldest L2P SN #2195 has a semi-glossy finish that doesn't match that well. However my semi-newer (but still old) L2P SN #3822 has a VERY close match.

New L2P left, new L2 right


 
The anodizing on both the L2P SN #6071 and the L2 SN #2903 are very similar to each other, but are too light in color to make a good match.

Older L2T left, newer L2T right



The first L2T SN #1660 I obtained is very matte and lighter in appearance compared to a newer L2T SN #3720 body I recently purchased. This newer L2T body is also VERY close in matching the M3 head.

L2M 2012 version


 
Just for kicks I decided to see how the M3 would look like with a L2M body. The finish also matches VERY well, however usability/functionality is a entire different story.

While I am still waiting for night time to arrive for beamshots, I have done some tailcap amp draw measurements of different battery configurations. The M3's modes are H/M/L and my tailcap amp measurements are labeled the same. I've also included approximate estimates of wattage draw (exact cell voltage under load not measured, assume ~3.7v under load for Li-ion, ~2.5v under load for CR-123) to give a general comparison of the different battery configurations.

1 x 18650 (AW 2900) - 2.1/0.8/0.09A (7.77 watts high)
2 X 18650 (AW 2900) - 1.07/0.55/0.12A (7.918 watts high)
2 x 16340 (Ultrafire... yea I know) - 1.15/0.595/0.14A (8.28 watts high)
1 X CR123 (Titanium Innovations) - 0.165/0.096/0.019A :laughing:
2 X CR123 (Titanium Innovations) - 1.7/0.806/0/14A (8.5 watts high)
3 X CR123 (Titanium Innovations) - 1.14/0.58/0.123A (8.55 watts high)

The amp draw measurements on high were within the first 5 seconds. Since the circuit used in the M3 is a buck circuit, amp draw will increase as cell voltage under load decreases.

*Update:*

Emitter amps has been measured, please see post #93 for details.


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## MattSPL

Looks good, thanks for the update :thumbsup:


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## Blitzwing

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to darkness.


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## visigoth

Seems as if it would be a perfect match for an unshortened L2M (with an 18650).


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## Kevin1322

I have one coming too. Can't wait. Is anyone going to use the new SF 18650s, or is everyone going to stick to the AWs and other expensive ones?


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## LilKevin715

Here are the white wall beamshots of the M3 versus various lights. Pictures are heavily under-exposed so they don't appear washed out and to show the overall beam profile. The lights are about 0.5m away from the wall. Sorry no outdoor beamshots as I don't want to freak out my neighbors:sigh:.

This first shot shows the details of the beam. (f3.4, 1/500s)



Good hotspot, slightly dark ring around the hotspot, surrounded by a circle, followed by a square-shaped petal, then the rest of the spill.

The rest of the shots are head to head comparisons with camera setting of f7/1, 1/2000s. These are mainly for comparing throw (hotspot lux). The first image in the comparisons has the lights about a foot apart from each other. The second picture has the two lights facing inwards to better compare the hotspots.

M3 XM-L U2 (left) vs P60 XM-L T6 1D SMO @ 2.8A (right)


 

 

M3 XM-L U2 (left) vs P60 XP-G R4 3D SMO @ 1.4A (right)


 

 

M3 XM-L U2 (left) vs P60 XR-E Q5 EZ900 SMO @ 1A (right)


 

 

M3 XM-L U2 (left) vs P60 XR-E Q5 EZ900 Aspheric @ 1A (right)


 

 

M3 XM-L U2 (left) vs Mag XM-L T6 1D Incan Reflector @ 3.5A (right)


 



*Update:*
I've modded the M3 with a XM-L2 T6 3C tint @ 3.5A, details can be found here. For some reason my cameras white balance isn't consistent despite being locked.

M3 XM-L2 T6 3C @ 3.5A (left) vs Mag XM-L T6 1D Incan Reflector @ 3.5A (right)


 

All I can say is WOW this thing can throw! I would describe the beam profile/output as similar to a P60 XP-G (similar hotspot size as well), but can easily out-throw a XR-E EZ900! Obviously the P60 reflector was definately holding back the XM-L in terms of throw. I included a Mag comparison as well as a control variable; the larger reflector and higher drive current should obviously result in higher hotspot lux. As far as overall output I did some ceiling bounce tests. My P60 XM-L T6 @ 2.8A can output around 650 lumens OTF, while my Mag XM-L T6 @ 3.5A outputs around 750-800 lumens OTF. The M3 was somewhere in between the two. At $40 I say its worth it if you want a XM-L for your Solarforce that can throw.


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## Vortus

*saw outdoor not happening.


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## Blitzwing

Thanks mate. Must.....resist............


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## LV426

Great test/review LilKevin, thanks!

A question: is the bezel ring removable?


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## RI Chevy

Thanks LilKevin. Very informative. Thank you for doing this for us. :thumbsup:


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## Vortus

Wonder how it would compare with the Masterpiece 1/2 set ups.


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## LilKevin715

Vortus said:


> Any chance of a couple outdoor shots?



Probably not as people in my neighborhood would most likely freak out and call the local PD. Plus the amount of light in the area doesn't help; there aren't any parks/open areas dark enough to take pictures.



Blitzwing said:


> Thanks mate. Must.....resist............



Resistance is futile!



LV426 said:


> Great test/review LilKevin, thanks!
> 
> A question: is the bezel ring removable?



The stainless steel bezel ring is removeable. 

I noticed that the moisture seal washer doesn't hold the lens in as well compared to the L2 style heads. On the L2 heads the lens is firmly held in place from the sides with no wiggle room. On the M3 there is approx 1 mm gap surrounding the lens. The force/pressure from the stainless steel bezel holds the lens in place. Please take note of this if you decide to unscrew the bezel as there is the chance of uncentering the lens, resulting in a gap between the lens and the moisture seal that is not air tight. I also measured the stock glass lens with my digital caliper and it measures 38.85 x 1.55mm. I'll probably end up replacing the stock glass lens for a custom cut hardcoat acrylic lens (more durable/impact resistant) from Chris at flashlightlens.com.

I've also noticed that on medium (and much less on low) there is a sound that sounds like a faint PWM whine. For those of you that have used NANJG 17mm drivers you know what I am talking about. It can be clearly heard on medium, much less so on low.

Edit: I measured the PWM frequency on the medium and low modes and obtained 4.985 kHz on medium and 4.965 kHz on low. High mode is the only mode that is current controlled (non PWM).


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## RI Chevy

Have you tried to put any other drop in inside the MP3 head? I assume that it will take any P60 type drop in?


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## LV426

RI Chevy said:


> I assume that it will take any P60 type drop in?


Nope, it's a single unit.


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## Kevin1322

I received mine today. Thought I'd add some thoughts. As already said, big, deep, beautiful reflector, build looks good over all and is a nice piece. Mine does have the slight dark hole in the midde of the spot also, though you can't see it outside really. Actually, I'd love them to do a highbred reflector like the M8. IMO, it looks good with the new L2, a little off with my L2P, and best with the L2T (all of which bought this summer). 

I bought my dad a Dereelight DBS with an XP-G R5 last year. With my brighter XM-L lights, he wanted a light with the same throw, but more light output and spill light, So I ordered the M3 thinking it would be a good one for him. A week after, I decided to drill out the DBS reflector and put one of my good XM-L pills in it. This actually worked out great. Now that I have the two to compare, this is what I found: The DBS (with modified reflector and XM-L) had just a slightly tighter hotspot (no dark hole) and the head is not quite as wide. The M3's spot is slightly less defined, slightly broader spill, and a little more spill light. All in all they both were very close in performance, but IMO, the M3 is a much better looking turbo head.


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## kosPap

what is the diameter of the board?
thanks, K


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## LilKevin715

kosPap said:


> what is the diameter of the board?
> thanks, K



The circuit board I assume? It measures ~16.2mm not including a metal shim/spacer around it, then the main pill itself. Take a look at the pictures in post #20 for a better look.


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## RI Chevy

LV426 said:


> Nope, it's a single unit.



Is it a sealed unit?


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## LilKevin715

I'm guessing its not a totally sealed unit (lens is removeable). However I'll be happy to find out if the pill is glued/sealed for a $40 fee.


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## RI Chevy

No thank you. I am not THAT interested or curious.


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## texas cop

Could someone please post the current on a single cell. 
I should have looked harder, I'm getting a bit senile.


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## simplec6

texas cop said:


> Could someone please post the current on a single cell.



Posted on first page


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## don.gwapo

Got mine today and it exceeded my expectation. Has a very good throw and it's bright.


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## LV426

Anybody got a M3 *and *a P1?


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## LilKevin715

I've got a yellow P1, I am assuming you want to know how the M3 head looks on a P1?


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## LV426

Yes Sir, if possible!


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## LilKevin715

Here ya go


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## LV426

Ohh so pretty!  Thanks a lot!


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## MattSPL

That P1 - M3 does look very good :thumbsup:


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## SDM44

2 quick questions.....


1) Is it heavy to where you can fell the light is now very front-heavy when holding it? Any issues with a heavier head and tail-standing the light, where balancing it takes more finesse?

2) What color is the beam? Maybe I missed it posted earlier, but I don't recall seeing it in here. Is it closer to a 6500K "cool white" color? Or is more 'white' and natural looking?


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## LilKevin715

SDM44 said:


> 2 quick questions.....
> 
> 1) Is it heavy to where you can fell the light is now very front-heavy when holding it? Any issues with a heavier head and tail-standing the light, where balancing it takes more finesse?
> 
> 2) What color is the beam? Maybe I missed it posted earlier, but I don't recall seeing it in here. Is it closer to a 6500K "cool white" color? Or is more 'white' and natural looking?



The light is definately more front/head-heavy, but its not like the head weighs as much as a brick. I use a slightly wider S9 tailcap for a visual balance and it tailstands just fine. If you use a standard size flat tailcap I wouldnt see any problems either. According to solarforce's website the M3 head weighs 138 grams.

The beam is somewhere around 6500-7000k. The hotspot is white, corona is yellow-ish, and the side spill is blueish. There is another thread in the LED section of the forums that goes into detail of XM-L color separation.


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## LilKevin715

Just a FYI monanoke @ BLF took the pill out of the head, details/pics can be found here.


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## roadie

i been playing with it for a while .... but got an qns ....

is there a simple way to convert the 3 mode into 1 mode (high) only o.0?


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## LilKevin715

Without access to the driver there is no easy way.


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## msim

Just ordered mine... can't wait to get this bad boy.


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## LV426

En route! En route! Possibly arriving tomorrow...


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## ssvqwnp

LilKevin715 said:


> Just a FYI monanoke @ BLF took the pill out of the head, details/pics can be found here.



Thanks for posting that, LilKevin, I was sitting here thinking what it would look like with an XP-G or -E, or 219... I guess the sky's the limit since it is but a P60. :twothumbs



Kevin1322 said:


> I received mine today. Thought I'd add some thoughts. As already said, big, deep, beautiful reflector, build looks good over all and is a nice piece. Mine does have the slight dark hole in the midde of the spot also, though you can't see it outside really. Actually, I'd love them to do a highbred reflector like the M8. IMO, it looks good with the new L2, a little off with my L2P, and best with the L2T (all of which bought this summer).



I don't know if it was on purpose or not, but I LOL'd at "highbred."


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## Kevin1322

ssvqwnp said:


> I don't know if it was on purpose or not, but I LOL'd at "highbred."


Haha. No, it wasn't; just going a little too fast. Whoops!


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## Blitzwing

So, why should someone buy this if they already have a decent P60?

Maybe I could be convinced. Maybe I want to be....

Maybe not.....


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## LilKevin715

Blitzwing said:


> So, why should someone buy this if they already have a decent P60?
> 
> Maybe I could be convinced. Maybe I want to be....
> 
> Maybe not.....



I would think the beamshots on the first page of the thread would be enough to convince most people that the M3 head can definately throw...

For $40 shipped its just slightly above the cost of a XM-L P60 module from NB or Vinh, but of course those can't compete with the M3 unless you love flood. Everyone so far seems pretty happy with the M3.


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## chiphead

LilKevin715 said:


> New toy arrived today!
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll add more info later such as tailcap current draw with various battery combinations. As far as the finish of the light I have the newer style L2's, L2T, as well as old and newer style L2P's to compare. As far as I can tell the pill solarforce uses is not a standard P60 type of pill. The Lens does have a AR coating applied and the reflector is spot/dust free. I'll post beamshots later when it gets dark enough.


Whoa!
chiphead


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## chiphead

What does it take to drive this thing, XX123, 18650. Will it fit the body of a Surefire 6P?
chiphead


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## Kevin1322

chiphead said:


> What does it take to drive this thing, XX123, 18650. Will it fit the body of a Surefire 6P?
> chiphead


With 2.7-9 volts, you can use one or two 123 or 18650 batteries, though personally, I wouldn't run a single 123 battery. Solarforce L2 series parts fit Surefire 6P parts, and this is made for the L2 series, so yes it will fit.


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## LV426

Got it a couple days ago... Good build quality, lens and reflector good, irritating hum from driver.

Wide useful beam, but at 125m (my std. water-tower-Kestrel-nesting-box-test) MPP1 is at spot at least 50% brighter (2x 123-bat.)


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## msim

Got mine today. Haven't been able to properly test in the dark yet but seems like quite a little beast. Only negative I can see (well, hear) so far is noticeable PWM noise in medium.

Edit: The more I use it, the more it bothers me. Looks like I'll be using only high and low on this one. Disappointing.

Edit 2: Having Vinh mod it with a new driver.


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## PCC

LV426 said:


> Got it a couple days ago... Good build quality, lens and reflector good, irritating hum from driver.
> 
> Wide useful beam, but at 125m (my std. water-tower-Kestrel-nesting-box-test) MPP1 is at spot at least 50% brighter (2x 123-bat.)


I've heard it from a very reputable source that the MPP1 is no longer in production. If you need the increased throw that the MPP1 offers over the M3 then I suggest that you pick one up before supplies dry up.


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## LV426

Thanks PCC, I have one already


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## PCC

Yes, that is obvious. I was posting that for the person who may be looking at these two heads and trying to figure out which to get. Since the MPP1 may become more and more difficult to get, now's the time to get one if you were thinking about it.


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## Blitzwing

LV426 said:


> Got it a couple days ago... Good build quality, lens and reflector good, irritating hum from driver.
> 
> Wide useful beam, but at 125m (my std. water-tower-Kestrel-nesting-box-test) MPP1 is at spot at least 50% brighter (2x 123-bat.)



Thanks. I won't be bothering with this one then. I have a good XM-L P60 and a Pro-1 and I don't need a "not quite thrower" light.

Now, if the M3 was to come out with a hard driven XP-G G2.....


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## Kevin1322

msim said:


> Got mine today. Haven't been able to properly test in the dark yet but seems like quite a little beast. Only negative I can see (well, hear) so far is noticeable PWM noise in medium.
> 
> Edit: The more I use it, the more it bothers me. Looks like I'll be using only high and low on this one. Disappointing.
> 
> Edit 2: Having Vinh mod it with a new driver.


 Yeah baby! That's what I likely will be doing. Please post if the extra lumens takes away the dark spot at all. Thanks!


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## msim

Got my M3 back from Vinh. I'm very happy with it! I'm not exactly sure how much brighter it is than stock, but it is BRIGHT and throws like that kid from 'Rookie of the Year.' 

As I mentioned before, the noise from the PWM at medium was really bad before, and pretty bad at low. Now it's great. No PWM (edit) *noise* and I decided to go with a no-memory driver so it always starts on high. I'm very happy with Vinh's work. 

In the picture above it's on a L2T with a Dark Sucks clip.


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## LilKevin715

msim said:


> As I mentioned before, the noise from the PWM at medium was really bad before, and pretty bad at low. Now it's great. No PWM and I decided to go with a no-memory driver so it always starts on high. I'm very happy with Vinh's work.



I don't doubt Vinh's work at all. Just a FYI if he used Kaidomain's V2 AMC7135/7138 Linear regulator driver it DOES use PWM for the lower modes, the PWM is at a higher frequency that can't be heard.


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## msim

That's understood. Was typing up my last post pretty quickly and left out the word 'noise.' Thanks for pointing it out!


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## mallit

Wow its great to finally see a review and some beam shots of the M3.
Have been trying very hard not to click the buy now on this for a while.
As mentioned earlier this is similar price to a custom P60 drop in, that makes it very very tempting.

Also bit of a noob question but can you add an extension tube to the flashlight so you can run 2x 18650s with the M3???


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## LV426

It accepts 2.7-9V, so it will run fine on 2x 18650.


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## Blitzwing

How's the throw on this compared to a regular XP-G Solarforce dropin with SMO?

I see s/f sales is turfing the M3 out with an L2T for only $48. 

I could yet be tempted - this stumpy head would go real well on my black L2i, also.


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## LilKevin715

Blitzwing said:


> How's the throw on this compared to a regular XP-G Solarforce dropin with SMO?



Take a closer look at the beamshot descriptions on the first page...


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## Bwolcott

Blitzwing said:


> How's the throw on this compared to a regular XP-G Solarforce dropin with SMO?
> 
> I see s/f sales is turfing the M3 out with an L2T for only $48.
> 
> I could yet be tempted - this stumpy head would go real well on my black L2i, also.





the throw is much better then the p60 xpg drop ins, id say if I had to guess twice the lux


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## Blitzwing

Thanks for the replies.


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## Blitzwing

Trigger pulled on M3 / L2N combo, God dammit..... :laughing:


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## tjhabak

Blitzwing said:


> Trigger pulled on M3 / L2N combo, God dammit..... :laughing:



Ohhhh....I think I might just have to do the same thing.....Probly soon to be in divorce court!


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## Swedpat

Today I received an M3 head, together with a 550lm XM-L dropin from Solarforce. When I attach M3 head to Surefire 9P body it remains a gap of ca 4mm when I tighten it. Is it possible to reduce it? Do I need the large springs of the dropin, wondered if they cause the gap and if it works without them?

Thankful for answer, Patric


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## Blitzwing

Try it without the outer spring - iirc the Surefire does not need it.


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## Swedpat

Thanks, I will try it. I wondered because even if it's very cool attached to Solarforce L2T host I understood that using 1x18650 it will not be long regulated runtime. 2x18650s may provide much better result. When I checked after 40min the output was reduced with 1/3 so I was right.

I just removed the large spring and the M3 goes full way int 9P body without gap! Also it works. :thumbsup:


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## Swedpat

I will share my impression of Solarforce M3 head. This is a great thrower and likely with the narrowest spill I experienced. This is good for a thrower, and the spill is very bright as well. I decided to use it with bored Surefire 9P and extender for 2x18650.
A few minutes ago I finished a runtime test. Most of the runtime I held the light in my hands for cooling it down. It works pretty good as a handwarmer. From start the brightness dropped 6-7% and then stabilized. It was stable output at 700+lm for 1h and 52m and then the light suddenly cut off. The batteries for this test are AmpMax 3100mAh. If I understand right it was the protection in the batteries which worked. But the result is much worse than the stated of Solarforce. Anyone who can comment this?


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## RI Chevy

So the Protection circuits of each battery cut off at 2.5v each (according to the Panasonic charts) totaling 5v? Did you happen to check the batteries with a DMM to confirm? Does the drop in list the cut off voltage?

Solarforce site lists: _"Current-regulated and stable output with input voltage range of 2.7- 9V" 

_ _"Output rating and continuous runtime (with 18650 x 2): High (750 lumens): 160 minutes

_So your results for output times were pretty close to what Solarforce states.Interesting.


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## Swedpat

No I have not instrument for measuring the voltage. I will do some more test. Also I wonder how it comes that the brightness actually dropped 1/3 with one 18650 but suddenly cut off at full brightness with two 18650s. I can understand that one cell will drop to less than 2,7V but not two cells and that will result in that situation. 

Anyway I am tired and will go to bed. Thanks for the response, I am back tomorrow.


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## DellSuperman

There is a new M3s that is on the SolarForce website.
The only difference that I can see is that the M3s is a single output whereas the M3 is a multimode kind.

Anyone can verify?

Btw, I got the M3s with a L2N.
Can't wait for this thrower to arrive. :twothumbs


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## Blitzwing

Yes - M3s = single mode M3.


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## speedsix

Only that they are so good you end up buying them all. I honestly think the Solarforce L2P is superior to the Surefire 6P. When you consider it costs about 1/3 the price, they are flat out amazing.


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## DellSuperman

speedsix said:


> Only that they are so good you end up buying them all. I honestly think the Solarforce L2P is superior to the Surefire 6P. When you consider it costs about 1/3 the price, they are flat out amazing.



I can't say that SolarForce is superior because the quality of SF is much better but I do agree that SolarForce pricing makes it very attractive & the quality isn't too shabby, compared to other xxxFire brands. 

Solarforce is probably the best bang for buck flash lights, IMO. 

JonK

Sent from my Awesome phone from somewhere in the mountains


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## sp5it

I modded my M3, made two pills. One with 105C driver and XM-L2 driven at 3.04A, second with XP-G2 @1.7A (throws as hell).
M3 is great base for modding.
Mike


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## LilKevin715

Quick Update

When I did the initial tailcap amp draw measurements (see post #21) I've been bugged by the fact that the XM-L isn't being driven to its full potential:thinking:. A XM-L @ 3A should consume roughly 10 watts (Vf ~3.35v X 3A = 10.05 watts) of power. Since the circuit used in the M3 is a buck circuit, tailcap amps *DOES NOT* equal emitter amps. Tailcap amps only equals emitter amps in a direct drive or AMC7135 linear regulator setup. Input wattage should be in the neighborhood around 12.5 watts (assuming 80% efficiency for the buck driver used) if the XM-L was being fully driven at 3A. If we assume 80% efficiency then the 8.55 watts at the input would work out to around 6.84 watts at the emitter.

Being bored and curious I decided to measure the emitter amps at the LED with the solarforce buck driver. This involves desoldering one of the wires from the driver to the emitter and placing a multimeter in series between the emitter and the driver. Here are the results I obtained:

1x Li-ion (AW2900): 1.28/0.58/0.07A:sigh:
2x CR-123: 2.18-2.22/1.04/0.16A
3x CR-123: 2.07/1.03/0.19A

Best case with 2x CR-123's and 2.2A to the emitter we are looking at roughly 786 emitter lumens according to the cree data sheet. OTF should be around 625-630 lumens. With a single 18650 we are looking at around 525 emitter lumens. Solarforce claims of the M3 producing 750 lumens isn't false, but rather at the emitter. Being a flashaholic and lumen freak this is clearly unacceptable in my view. The solarforce M3 is a solid piece of machining and hardware, the only main drawback is the buck circuit used. How can we rectify that? Stay tuned.:devil:


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## mvyrmnd

You must also remember that you DMM adds a bit of resistance to that circuit when you're measuring Amps, so the readings will be slightly to somewhat less (depending on the quality of your DMM) than that actual current when the circuit it assembled properly.


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## LilKevin715

Not satisfied with the buck driver used in the M3, its time to do some modding. I have plenty of standard P60 pills with XM-L's driven hard and a simple swap would be easy and painless... but where is the fun in that? Too boring to do in my opinion and as shown below the stock pill actually works best for the M3.

Warning: Extremely pic heavy! Grab some popcorn and enjoy the show/guide. All pictures can be enlarged by clicking on them.

Here is a pic of the stock pill on the M3. FYI thermal paste is used between the LED mcpcb and the pill. If you want to remove the LED this makes it much easier versus a mcpcb secured with thermal epoxy.


 

 



Before doing any modding I wanted to improve the heatsinking of the M3. The best way to do this was to utilize the stock pill. Its not uncommon for people to wrap their P60 dropins with copper tape, aluminum foil, etc. to increase the surface area where the reflector comes in contact with the host. While it can also be done on the M3 somewhat there is a better solution. Instead of increasing the surface area between the reflector and the M3 head, lets have the pill directly contact the host. This will result in the heat being absorbed by the host even faster than having the heat go through the reflector first and then the head. In order to do that we need to wrap the stock pill with some copper tape.


 

 






The fit of the pill inside the body tube is extremely tight.. I was barely able to screw on the M3 head when everything was reassembled. This is good as we want zero air gaps between the pill and the host for maximum heat transfer.

Now that the heatsinking of the pill is taken care of its time to work on the driver. While the M3 buck driver isn't that bad, there is definately room for improvement. The LED was easy enough to remove but the driver was a different story. I used a jewlers sized flat head screw driver to pop out the battery contact pcb. In the process of removing the driver I pretty much ruined the battery contact pcb and might have ruined the driver as well. I've also included higher-res photos of the driver itself.


 

 






Now that the driver is out lets take a closer look at the pill. The pill has a press-fitted ring that held the battery contact pcb and driver in place. I've included all the various measurements of the pill for a reason: a standard 17mm driver wont fit without some modifications.


 

 


 

 




 




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In order to properly fit a 17mm sized driver I filed down the press-fit ring and pressed the ring back into the pill. I didn't want to file it down too thin as it might have broke.


 



The replacement driver is a 3.5A 10 x AMC7135 linear regulator. The driver pcb is 1.6mm thick, which means the driver will sit roughly 1mm above the pill. In order to rectify this I used a piece of 20 gauge solid core copper wire wrapped around the driver to bridge the gap between the pill and the driver.


 

 



Here is the new driver soldered up. Not my best soldering work but it will do:duck:. When I soldered the driver to the copper wire I made sure to not solder the copper wire to the pill in the same location.


 



Now what do we have here? The XM-L U2 that solarforce used is okay if you like cool white tints. For me however I'm more of a tint snob and prefer tints warmer than cool white and closer to neutral white. A XM-L2 T6 (roughly XM-L1 U3 equivalent @ 25C) 3D tint ~5000k suits me nicely. Ceramique thermal paste was used between the mcpcb and the pill.


 



Before I put everything back together lets go back to the topic of heatsinking as I mentioned earlier. Here are more pictures of the reflector and head.


 

 


 




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I could wrap parts of the reflector with copper tape so that it touches the head, but I decided not to and to do something else instead. The reflector does contact the head directly just above where the head screws onto the body tube. In this area I decided to use some Fujik thermal glue to aid in transferring heat more efficiently from the reflector to the head.


 

A special note on the lens and the lens holder/moisture gasket. The glass lens measures 38.85 x 1.55mm. When the stainless steel bezel ring is unscrewed I noticed that the lens doesn't fit snug/tightly into the lens holder. This can be a problem because if you don't center the lens into the gasket there can be a gap between the lens and the gasket. This would result in a non airtight seal and allows the possibilty of moisture to get in. I would be very careful if you unscrew the stainless steel bezel for any reason. To help eliminate this from happening I placed a 42mm GITD oring around the lens to help center the glass lens and then screwed the stainless steel bezel with the white shim back on.




With my digital calipers I'd estimate a lens of around 39.8-40mm in diameter would be ideal for a snug fit. I'll have Chris @ flashlightlens.com (BTW great guy and his service is awesome) make me a custom sized hardcoat acrylic lens for the M3.

Thats about it for now. When I have some free time I'll post some beamshots in the same manner/setup I did back in post #26. As for the output the M3 with the XM-L U2 @ 2.2A was pretty decent, but now with a XM-L2 T6 @ 3.5A its in a different class. This M3 really is something special when modded.


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## Tana

Very nice build...

M3 is a great head for very easy modding, imho... I opened mine as soon as I got it, upgraded the heatsink a little, installed XPG2 5000K pushed at 1.8A with linear driver... quite the charming little thrower...

Do you still have doughnut hole in hotspot ???


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## LilKevin715

Do you mean the slightly dark ring around the hotspot? There isn't a donut hole in the very center of the hotspot. The beam profile looks exactly the same as the original XM-L back in post #26.


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## LV426

I swapped the pill to a single mode Solarforce XM-L U2 making it a "M3s", but that resulted in to things (one a bit annoying the other strange):
- the M3 got extremely "ringy"
- the 3 mode pill, now mounted in a D26 reflector, lost it's modes and is now also a single mode...


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## LilKevin715

Did you try and adjust the focus of the pill in the M3 head? The centering shim that goes on the LED helps ensure the emitter is centered and at the proper height. As for the original pill in the D26 reflector that seems strange. Maybe the driver went bad or there is a short somewhere. Can you run the original M3 pill without a reflector to test out?


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## LilKevin715

A updated beamshot of the modified M3 has been uploaded, please see post #26 for your viewing pleasure.


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## DellSuperman

Sorry but can I check if the normal P60/D26 pill is able to fit into the M3 assembly?
Thank you!


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## mvyrmnd

It does, but you need a long negative contact spring to make up for the length difference. I have a standard P60 pill in my M3.


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## rockhound42

I like the 42mm GITD ring idea, think that's about as far as I'll get modding my M3. still trying to find the right combo of solarforce bodies and tails that i'm happy with.


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## DellSuperman

mvyrmnd said:


> It does, but you need a long negative contact spring to make up for the length difference. I have a standard P60 pill in my M3.



Ok, thanks mate. 
I have been thinking of putting a XP-G2 inside for a while. 
Wonder if it will improve the throw. Haha.. 

JonK

Sent from my Awesome phone from somewhere in the mountains


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## mvyrmnd

DellSuperman said:


> Wonder if it will improve the throw.



It will certainly do that


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## LilKevin715

Some good news to report. I was afraid that I might have damaged the M3 buck driver it in the process of removing it from the pill. Turns out if your careful enough when removing it (despite damaging the battery contact PCB) it can still be used. The height of the driver might be a issue for a normal sized P60 pill. I replaced the LED leads (crappy pvc insulation) and the battery contact pcb leads (metal standoffs) and its ready to go for a future project. Here are some better pics of the driver.


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## msim

Decided to have some fun and put my Solarforce M3 head on my shorty Moddoolar/Oveready host. Total size just over 4" :twothumbs


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## LilKevin715

Nice shorty:thumbsup: I have to admit though the first thing that caught my eye in your picture was the Sriracha sauce


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## DellSuperman

With regards to the default pill not being able to fit the 17mm driver, FastTech sells a step down ring.
Not sure if it will work but, on paper it should. Hah..


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## LilKevin715

No precise (digital caliper) measurements are given... besides its not really that hard to use a metal file is it?


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## LV426

LilKevin715 said:


> Did you try and adjust the focus of the pill in the M3 head? The centering shim that goes on the LED helps ensure the emitter is centered and at the proper height. As for the original pill in the D26 reflector that seems strange. Maybe the driver went bad or there is a short somewhere. Can you run the original M3 pill without a reflector to test out?



Sorry, totally forgot about this...

The pill feels very coarse in the threads, and does not at all focus - too bad. So I switched back, and the original pill, the one that lost it's levels, do have them, but with merely noticeable difference (medium still has that annoying hum though...)


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## LilKevin715

Sounds like the regular P60 reflector was causing a short with the wires on the M3 pill. Using regular P60 pills with the M3 reflector seems like it is hit or miss as far as getting them to work together properly. Thats why I chose to use the original pill when I modded my M3.


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## DellSuperman

Can I check what are the wire shorting that causes the driver to lose its different mode?
I have 1 mule that is having this problem (supposed to be 2 mode but now only high) & I cannot seem to find anything wrong.


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## LilKevin715

DellSuperman said:


> Can I check what are the wire shorting that causes the driver to lose its different mode?
> I have 1 mule that is having this problem (supposed to be 2 mode but now only high) & I cannot seem to find anything wrong.



Shorts that result in single mode operation are usually direct drive and are caused by the LED neg wire being shorted out.


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## DellSuperman

DellSuperman said:


> With regards to the default pill not being able to fit the 17mm driver, FastTech sells a step down ring.
> Not sure if it will work but, on paper it should. Hah..





LilKevin715 said:


> No precise (digital caliper) measurements are given... besides its not really that hard to use a metal file is it?



I recently purchased the step down ring from FastTech & I must say I am disappointed. 
I bought 3 pieces of the 17 to 17 rings, with the intention to extend the height of a regular pill to match the height of the M3 pill. 
However, all 3 pieces of the rings couldn't sit on each other, no matter which combinations i try. 
I had to hammer them in order for them to fit & in the process, i dented 1 piece so badly. 

- JonK


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## Divine_Madcat

So, dumb question - for somebody with almost literally no experience soldering, is there any way to easily boost the output of the M3? I know a driver change is what is needed, but... yeah.. i would rather not kill my light. 

How abou this.. i know the pill can be changed.. are there are good drop-in replacements with say, and XM-L2 driven at 2.5-3A?


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## LilKevin715

You can use a standard P60 pill with the M3 reflector, but it is hit or miss as far as getting the beam to focus properly.


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## DBCstm

Nice thread, here's my addition. Yeah Yeah I'm a little late to the party. I've had the M3 on an L2P for quite a while and it's been one of my favorite lights. Was scared to mess with it because I like it too much. But now that I've got some mods under my belt, I attacked it the other day. I pulled the star and removed the XM-L U2 emitter, re-flowed it to a copper SinkPAD. Then de-domed it. Removed the driver and replaced it with an E1320 5 mode with 10 chips, added 2 more 380mA binned chips. Wrapped the head and the pill with strips from a Coke can to get a nice tight fit, replaced the lens with an UCL and dropped in an Efest IMR18650. Here's what I'm seeing after warming up the tint with the de-dome... mode 1) .05A 2) .15A 3) .96A 4) 2.04A and 5) 4.28A! Yep, she'll now shed light on a building 610 yds away! Still one of my favorite lights!


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## DellSuperman

LilKevin715 said:


> You can use a standard P60 pill with the M3 reflector, but it is hit or miss as far as getting the beam to focus properly.



Agreed. So far I tried a XM-L2 & XP-G2 in the M3 reflector & none of them can give a good focus.
The closest I got was my XP-G2 but there were still some rings when shone on a wall.
But since I am not using it for wall hunting, who care? haha..


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## DBCstm

Have you guys seen the new K3 head? It utilizes the MT-G2 at 1500 lumens. I have one on the way with an L2P w/2 extension tubes to run 2 or 3 18650's. Check it out...http://www.solarforceflashlight-sales.com/product_detail.php?t=LF&s=26&id=604


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## DellSuperman

Has anyone tried using an aspherical lens on a M3 head before?


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## LilKevin715

Quick update

I finally got around to measuring output for lights in my collection and the modded M3 (details in post #95) didn't dissapoint at all. Output for the XM-L2 T6 @ 3.5A was 970.49 LBL (lightbox lumens) at turn on (0s) and 856.13 LBL at 30 seconds. Lux was equally impressive with a reading of 33.7k @ 1m (measured at 2m, calculated to 1m) at turn on and 30.7k lux at 30 seconds. 

I'm not too happy with the output sag within the first 30 seconds, so future plans are to do a noctigon mcpcb mod for the M3.


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## LilKevin715

I did the noctigon mod for my M3 (sorry no pics this time) and I'm pretty pleased with the results. New numbers are 1095.3 LBL @ 0s and 1043.8 LBL @ 30s, a definate improvement. Output sag over time was reduced as shown below in a 5 minute test run. (click to enlarge)


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## DBCstm

I don't have any way to test it, but my M3 is being driven at 4.28A, with a de-domed XM-L U2 (the one it came with) reflowed to a copper SinkPAD. It'll put visible light on a barn 610 yds away.

This shot shows how it stacks up to an S2200, a hot-rodded K3, also hot rodded HD2010 and the M3.



Lake Beamshot Comparison small by genie in a black box, on Flickr


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## Blitzwing

I am building an XP-G2 R5 with 2.8A driver for mine. 

I also tried a red XP-E pill with 1.4A driver that I built. It focuses it quite well.


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## DellSuperman

Blitzwing said:


> I am building an XP-G2 R5 with 2.8A driver for mine.
> 
> I also tried a red XP-E pill with 1.4A driver that I built. It focuses it quite well.



I done it with a 3A driver & the hot spot is considerably smaller & much more focused. 
However there are several rings surrounding the hotspot... 

Oh yes, did i mentioned that it throws damm well? 

- JonK


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## LilKevin715

Nice beamshots DBCstm! Irreguardless of LED emitter and setup one thing is clear: ditch the stock aluminum mcpcb and use a sinkpad or noctigon. There is so much potential with this M3 head a aluminum mcpcb is a disservice to it. 

It appears in your beamshot the large corona surrounding the center hotspot is still present. Is the beam profile still somewhat the same compared to a stock/domed setup?


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## Blitzwing

DellSuperman said:


> I done it with a 3A driver & the hot spot is considerably smaller & much more focused.
> However there are several rings surrounding the hotspot...
> 
> Oh yes, did i mentioned that it throws damm well?
> 
> - JonK




Tried the red xp-e last night and I am very happy with it.

Xp-g2 not finished yet.


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## DBCstm

Thanks LK. Yes, the beam profile is still pretty much the same, just a bit tighter hot spot and a warmer tint. If the tint is already fairly blue then the change isn't bad. But if you start with a T6 or lower then de-doming has a fairly drastic effect on the color of the light. After de-doming some 6 emitters, I'm not sure it's worth it. The Con's are pretty close to neutralizing the Pro's. And of course, longevity in the big picture has yet to be documented.

I do prefer a domed XM-L2 T6 in the 5000K line, it's just a nice slightly warm white color that doesn't seem to interfere with what I'm seeing, for example it doesn't make me work to translate whites. I much prefer it to an XM-L or XM-L2 in U2 trim. And yes, the copper star helps a lot as does some additional heat-sinking and more power.  I don't like driving em too far, just right up to the edge of that...lol.


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## Blitzwing

Here is a red LED module I made for my Solarforce M3. The M3 uses a pill that can easily be screwed out and replaced with a regular P60 pill and the 40mm head gives a better focus to many LED's than a smaller 26mm P60 reflector will.


In this case I've used the tiny little Cree XP-E emitter in red and put a 1.4A driver behind it.


It's OK for .22 use in the Solarforce L2 / P60 sized torch.







The M3 chokes the spot down a bit more and gives more throw. I tried it at night and I'm pretty happy with the results - useable to light critters up to about 130m at a guess, I will do some rangefinder based measurements soon. 







The XP-E is only about 2mm across and looks like a little ruby down in there.


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## LV426

Anyone had any luck lately swapping the pill, thinking especially of the Solarforce XM-L2 U2 1 mode one?


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## LV426

Well... I ordered a couple Solarforce drop-ins, now I'm crossing my fingers for being lucky to get a XM-L2 that focuses in the M3 reflector.


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## LV426

LV426 said:


> Well... I ordered a couple Solarforce drop-ins, now I'm crossing my fingers for being lucky to get a XM-L2 that focuses in the M3 reflector.



Oh sweet bliss, it seems to focus! May cometh the night, so I may shine it in the dark!:candle:


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## Blitzwing

Green XP-E works really well.









I'm waiting for a good source for XP-E2's in red, then let the fun commence once more.


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## LV426

LV426 said:


> Oh sweet bliss, it seems to focus! May cometh the night, so I may shine it in the dark!:candle:



It is very "ringy", to the point that it is disurbing, also "irl" and not just on the wall... And with a rather yellow tint, though I have read that, it is the die that reflects in the reflector.

I think, I had my hopes sat a bit high.


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## LV426

Anyone with a qualified guess how the a XP-L might perform in the M3?


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## DellSuperman

I ran a Direct drive on a modified P60 brass pill (for extra height) & soldered about 5mm worth of copper under the driver side of the pill.
Using a Zero Resistance Twisty switch & a NCR18650PF (max 10A), I was able to use it for about 3-4 mins before the host gets too hot to hold.
I guess the large reflector & bezel serves as a good heat sink as well, on top of the copper.


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## DellSuperman

LV426 said:


> It is very "ringy", to the point that it is disurbing, also "irl" and not just on the wall... And with a rather yellow tint, though I have read that, it is the die that reflects in the reflector.
> 
> I think, I had my hopes sat a bit high.



Did you use the original emitter gasket from the M3?
It will definitely help to focus the XML.


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## LV426

DellSuperman said:


> Did you use the original emitter gasket from the M3?
> It will definitely help to focus the XML.


Yes...


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