# Eneloop real or fake?



## Art

Hi,
I hope this topic is not a repeated one.

I was searching on some topics about this but could not find any topic talking only about this.
Just received 2 packs of eneloops today bought on ebay , from what I searched here they are not original.

They say HR6 and not R6. At the "back" from the pics you have shown here on other topics mine is not the same as original.

Here is a pic from another topic (thats to the owner)






Mines have "Size AA HR6" write on the left side and all the "dots" before the "Do not dispose..." "Charge only" etc are continuous not in one line each.

I measured and the pack of 4 AAA come all with 1.300v and the pack of 4 AA come all with 1.330v.

How can I know they are original and not fakes?

Will post some pics of them latter.

Thanks


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## Sugarboy

At least the upper one is 100% definitively fake..

the font just doesn't match..


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## Art

Here are mine , the pic above is from another topic.






What do you think?

Regards


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## Mr Happy

Art said:


> What do you think?


It's hard to tell. You need to take a photo from an angle that shows the positive end with the shape and size of the button clearly visible.

BTW, 1.33 V is a reasonable value for a new eneloop out of the packaging. They are only partially charged at the factory.

You can also learn something by looking for the date code that should be embossed along the side.


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## Art

What data code and where?

I can post some more pics of it... and from the button just give me a min.


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## Mr Happy

How to read Eneloop date code.


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## Art

Here are 2 more pics:

Edit: I can not resize them now so here is link for original size: http://acn.pt/eneloop2.jpg

Here it is beside a 2650 Duracell:





About the data code , mines say 09-05L3... the code is really hard to see.
So does this mean they are original?
The AAA say 09-03YJ.

Regards


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## Mr Happy

They seem genuine to me. The appearance is right and the date codes are May and March 2009, making them brand new.

(Incidentally you should resize that large picture down to 800x600 or so, it is currently too large for the forum limits.)


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## Illum

I've converted that picture to a thumbnail for you


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## Art

Illum said:


> I've converted that picture to a thumbnail for you



Thanks , I posted it bigger to have more quality.. will incert it as a link.

Thanks for the thumbnail :thumbsup:


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## wapkil

These Eneloops look exactly like the ones I recently bought. Except that mine have a crossed out garbage can symbol. I wonder in how many different appearances Sanyo produces these batteries. And why in so many...

I think the fake Eneloop manufacturers haven't yet started printing the date code so it seems to be the easiest way to check if the batteries are genuine.


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## Niconical

They seem fine to me, but to put your mind at rest for future purchases, there are known reputable dealers who send to Portugal at good prices. 

What charger do you have? A test cycle on a Maha or Lacrosse would be a good idea.


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## Art

Niconical said:


> They seem fine to me, but to put your mind at rest for future purchases, there are known reputable dealers who send to Portugal at good prices.
> 
> What charger do you have? A test cycle on a Maha or Lacrosse would be a good idea.



Unfortunately I do not have any way to measure the charge... no maha here (only for car dynos lol never mind) or even a lacrosse so the only readings I got was the voltage.
I can put them in high at a L0D and see if they last for 1h...

They look good on a Sanyo box very well made but we can never be sure.

Im waiting for the new LL P7 200lumens to put them in and finally a P14 for me to do a review and lux readings 

Thanks for the help everyone.

Regards,


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## Niconical

If you send them to me, I am happy to give them a full test and break-in in a Maha C9000. I'll then send them back to you, tested, broken in, ready for action.


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## Norm

My Eneloops are 2277 to 2396 mAH? Huh?
Google search

Norm


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## Art

Niconical said:


> If you send them to me, I am happy to give them a full test and break-in in a Maha C9000. I'll then send them back to you, tested, broken in, ready for action.



My charger has a refresh function of 200mah .. and charges at 1000mah.
Should I do that ? Is it like a break in? :thinking:

I just installed the 4 AAA in my LL P7 and will put the 4 AA now at a refresh and charge cicle.

BTW , where can I get a maha over here?


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## Niconical

Art said:


> My charger has a refresh function of 200mah .. and charges at 1000mah.
> Should I do that ? Is it like a break in? :thinking:


 
What charger is it?
Sounds more like a simple discharge/charge function, which although useful, is not a Maha type break-in. 
Also, does your charger display the final figures at the end, mah capacity?



Art said:


> Where can I get a maha over here?


 
I got both of mine from ebay, I'm not aware of anywhere in Spain/Portugal that sells them.


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## Art

Niconical said:


> What charger is it?
> Sounds more like a simple discharge/charge function, which although useful, is not a Maha type break-in.
> Also, does your charger display the final figures at the end, mah capacity?
> 
> 
> 
> I got both of mine from ebay, I'm not aware of anywhere in Spain/Portugal that sells them.



Its a simple charger that I bought on ebay. The LCD only shows a graph with 3 leves of charger / discharge. It show refresh or charge.
When I put the cells in it and press refresh it will discharge to 1v and then charge till they are full.

Should I do that to all my cells?

Cheapest Maha I found on ebay is more less 50€ with shipping... will have to think about buying one


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## Art

Hey!
I just made the really intelligent mistake of short circuiting one of the AA eneloops... with a digital caliper I was measuring the size and touched + and -... cell became hot in the 2secs I did this :|

Did I kill the cell? Its working now on a flashlight...

I did the refresh on all 4 yesterday , took 8h to discharge and 2,5h to fully charge to 1.45v.


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## Marko

I have this new set of eneloops, arrived today from DE Hong Kong. Vents (three) around the positive post are different size and shape than usual. Is this just another batch of fakes? 






There is a date code embossed to cell too, but its very weak, and hard to see all the numbers. Date code also has a bit different position depending of the cell.

Here is a genuine eneloop on the left, and this new one on the right. 





Again genuine one on the left










Unfortanately my C9000 is still working with another set of cells, so I can't put those new eneloops to break-in cycle yet.


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## zipplet

I'd be suspicious especially as the wrapper doesn't seem to be neatly flattened at the join


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## Art

Do fakes ones come with data code too? wow!


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## Mr Happy

Marko said:


> I have this new set of eneloops, arrived today from DE Hong Kong. Vents (three) around the positive post are different size and shape than usual. Is this just another batch of fakes?


Sadly, I'd have to say yes, they do look like fakes.

I have some eneloops of 2009 manufacture and they look like the genuine cell on the left.

If they were genuine cells from the Hong Kong market, wouldn't you expect them to have Chinese labelling and packaging?


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## Bones

Marko said:


> I have this new set of eneloops, arrived today from DE Hong Kong. Vents (three) around the positive post are different size and shape than usual. Is this just another batch of fakes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a date code embossed to cell too, but its very weak, and hard to see all the numbers. Date code also has a bit different position depending of the cell.
> 
> Here is a genuine eneloop on the left, and this new one on the right.
> 
> ...
> 
> Unfortunately my C9000 is still working with another set of cells, so I can't put those new eneloops to break-in cycle yet.



I just noticed that dealextreme.com even used these counterfeits for the images on their product page:









This strikes me as a pretty effective way to quell any suspicions that their pushing counterfeits; the customer can compare the cells they received with these images and clearly determine they're an exact match.

Their apparent failure to determine these four cell packages were also counterfeit after getting caught out with their two cell packages makes it difficult to believe this isn't deliberate fraud.

You also have to wonder how many of these they've managed to push on their customers, especially when it appears that these have been their only four piece offering since they started carrying the 'Eneloop'.

Anyway, good eye marko!


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## bucsab12

Hi Everyone.

Recently I've bought a pack of 4 eneloop batteries from a "Ritz Camera" store at the US. I bought them at the counter and I just finished breaking them in using a Maha C-9000. 

I had a feeling that they were fakes because of the very high Mah they reached during Break In mode (over 2500 Mah but I guess it was because they receive a 1.6C charge) so I started looking on the forum and I ran into this thread. 

The batteries look exactly the same as the fake ones that are pictured, the same packaging as well. The weird part is that at the end of break in, the results I received were:

1 - 1953
2 - 1937
3 - 1920
4 - 1947

All the batteries have the numbers "08-093Z" embossed next to the seam but it doesn't look exactly the same as the text on the real batteries (that can be seen in the thread that Mr. Happy supplied on How to read Eneloop date code.). 

Do you think there is a chance that they are authentic? I don't see how a reputable store like Ritz Camera will dare to sell a fake product in their store unless they were fooled as well. 

What else can I do in order to check if they are real or not? I can post pictures of the batteries/package (please tell me if I should).

Thank you very much in advance


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## digitor

The "over 2500 mAh" figure is not the capacity - it's the energy that was put into the cell during the charge. The final figure is the capacity, and it sounds about right for an Eneloop tested with a current model C9000.

Have a close look at the positive terminal - if it has four vents, and looks a bit squarish, it's probably a genuine Eneloop. Also, check on which side of the seam the date code is printed. 

I bought four packs of Eneloops in HK a few weeks ago, (dirt cheap from Apliu St. - HK$63 per pack) and the packaging looks identical to the DX pics, but the cells have the characteristic positive terminal shape, and return capacities of around 2000 mAh on a break-in. They seem to be as genuine as the other 40 cells I have, but have no outer clear shrink wrap over the white one. Date code is 08-11 UI.

Cheers


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## bucsab12

Thank you digitor for the response. the positive terminal is sort of squarish and it has four vents so that is good. The date code is printed just above the seam, right below the warnings on the battery.

I have sent an email to Ritz Camera costumer service. Here is what I wrote:

"Dear Ritz Camera Staff

I have recently bought a pack of 4 AA Sanyo eneloop batteries from your store in Cambridge Massachusetts. The batteries raised my suspicion because they did not look the same as some other eneloop batteries that I've seen. After looking around the internet I have found that those batteries I have bought from your store are fakes and not genuine Sanyo eneloop batteries. The package that I bought from your store does not appear on the eneloop site as one of their official products. I am not in the US anymore so I cannot come back to your store to return those batteries but this incident really upsets me. I have paid cash for these batteries (11.99, 12.59 after taxes) and I would either like to receive genuine Sanyo eneloop batteries as a replacement or some sort of store credit by gift card or by other form..."


And this is the response I received:


"I am sorry for the confusion. I can assure you that the product that you purchased is not a fake. I imported these directly from the manufacturer. It is possible that it is not the Official US packaging for the batteries. I can assure you that they are not fake. We apologize for any misunderstanding."


I guess that whoever answered me knows what he is talking about so maybe authentic enloops are also sold in the "fake" packaging?


Are there any other methods that you can suggest to check the performance of these batteries?


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## Mr Happy

Hello bucsab12,

There is no reason to believe your eneloops are anything other than genuine.

To avoid further misunderstandings or confusion with anyone else, here is what genuine eneloops in USA packaging look like:
















I hope that puts your mind at rest.


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## wapkil

bucsab12 said:


> Thank you digitor for the response. the positive terminal is sort of squarish and it has four vents so that is good. The date code is printed just above the seam, right below the warnings on the battery.
> 
> I have sent an email to Ritz Camera costumer service. Here is what I wrote:
> [...]
> 
> And this is the response I received:
> 
> "I am sorry for the confusion. I can assure you that the product that you purchased is not a fake. I imported these directly from the manufacturer. It is possible that it is not the Official US packaging for the batteries. I can assure you that they are not fake. We apologize for any misunderstanding."
> 
> I guess that whoever answered me knows what he is talking about so maybe authentic enloops are also sold in the "fake" packaging?
> 
> Are there any other methods that you can suggest to check the performance of these batteries?



I think your batteries probably are genuine. I may be wrong, of course, but nothing that you wrote looked suspicious to me.

Unfortunately Sanyo offers Eneloops in many different packages and with different printings on the shrink wraps. I saw at least half a dozen, completely genuine, versions and there are probably many more. The fact that someone sells fake Eneloops in the package similar to the one you bought may show that yours is a genuine package - the fake ones are usually verbatim copies of the real ones.

I think that every fake Eneloop I saw had a plus button differing from the real ones but obviously everything can be copied. Ultimately the best test would be to see how the batteries behave. You checked their discharge capacity but you could also perform a high current discharge test or patiently wait to see if they are really LSD batteries. Of course someone could also make a fake Eneloop with an LSD chemistry...

As I wrote, looking at the information that you provided I think your cells are genuine and you can safely use them.


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## Marko

Thanks Bones, the four cell package that I received looks exactly the same, here is a picture of backside of it:






Those 'eneloops' are now in the C9000 at break-in mode, but here is the results of dicharge at 400mA (cells straight from the package).

1 - 728 mAh
2 - 678 mAh
3 - 794 mAh
4 - 650 mAh

Funny, this was the last part of my old order at least four months ago, when I did my first eneloop order at dealextreme. Then I got my money back (and they also let me keep those fakes), and much later I noticed that one set of four was still missing from my old order - after couple mails they finally believed that one package wasn't at my original delivery, and eventually I received this last-eneloop-pack-from-hk-ever. At first, when opening the package, I think that could this be real deal, because of the different packing. But no, looks like it just have better wrapping around the cell (and ther is no clear plastic covering anymore) . :sick2:

edit: the packing looks very much like the one in Mr Happy's picture, so they got at least it right.


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## Art

Mine discharged a lot faster out of the pack.. after first charge the 2nd discharge took twice as much.

OT: A P14 just arrived here will put the eneloops to test lux...


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## bucsab12

Thank you very much Mr. Happy for those pictures. They solved the issue for me and did put my mind to rest...


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## Marko

Perhaps we should make somekind of "counterfeit gallery" - genuine eneloops vs fakes? :huh:


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## Bones

Art said:


> Hey!
> I just made the really intelligent mistake of short circuiting one of the AA eneloops... with a digital caliper I was measuring the size and touched + and -... cell became hot in the 2secs I did this :|
> 
> Did I kill the cell? Its working now on a flashlight...
> 
> I did the refresh on all 4 yesterday , took 8h to discharge and 2,5h to fully charge to 1.45v.



You're far from the first person to briefly dead-short an Eneloop Art.

Fortunately, they really are a tough little cell, and I've yet to hear of any consequential problems with their performance, even over the long term.

Insofar as initial capacity is concerned, please bear in mind that the Eneloop may not leave the factory with a full charge.

The following blurb is from a senior representative at Sanyo Component Europe GmbH:



> ...
> The Eneloop batteries are sold charged, but not necessarily 100% fully charged. In Europe we charge them about 75%.
> ...


Source:

http://www.stefanv.com ... sanyo_eneloop ...
-


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## Bones

Marko said:


> Perhaps we should make some kind of "counterfeit gallery" - genuine eneloops vs fakes?



It would certainly be both convenient and a useful tool Marko.

While its predecessors have been almost embarrassingly obvious, the counterfeit Eneloops you reported are thus far in a class by themselves.

Since it's a given they're only going to get more difficult to discern, a centralized respository for images and information would certainly save a lot of digging, especially for those that Google their way here.


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## Marko

I'll try to take better pictures after the break-in sequence, or is there somebody who allready has those cells from the same batch (and have better photographing skills too :thumbsup: )?


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## rookiedaddy

here are two pictures I received from Sanyo:








hope to see more ways to ID these fake cells, but as the counterfeits getting better at imitating the physical appearance, it will be harder to ID them


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## Marko

Mr Happy said:


> To avoid further misunderstandings or confusion with anyone else, here is what genuine eneloops in USA packaging look like:



Here is the front of the new packaging that I received, it looks very much like the genuine one.






My cells has similar ridge like fake cells on rookiedaddy's pictures. You can see it here, fake one on the right.


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## Mr Happy

The similar packaging is probably because the counterfeiters photocopied the original. It is more significant to look at the cells themselves. The exact shape and design of those is harder to copy.

Also, as I mentioned before, doesn't it seem a little odd to get a package distributed by "Sanyo Energy (U.S.A.) Corporation" from a vendor in Hong Kong? I would find that quite suspicious in itself.


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## digitor

Mr Happy said:


> Also, as I mentioned before, doesn't it seem a little odd to get a package distributed by "Sanyo Energy (U.S.A.) Corporation" from a vendor in Hong Kong? I would find that quite suspicious in itself.


The four packs that I recently got in HK have got "Manufactured for: SANYO Energy (U.S.A.)" etc. written on the back, and they are definitely genuine. I must admit that I wasn't sure about that until I got them home and tested them all though!

Cheers


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## Marko

Results from break-in cycle @ C9000 

1 - 2029 mAh
2 - 1996 mAh
3 - 2052 mAh
4 - 2027 mAh


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## Marko

The shape of cell is not so decent, look at the top end of cells. Genuine eneloop on the left.








Date code is much more unreadable, and its not always at the same place. Genuine eneloop on the left.


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## Remon

Both genuine Eneloops. 

Batterijenhuis = old batch
Conrad = new batch






CONRAD: Glossy text.
BATTERIJENHUIS: Text not glossy, watch the ridge on the positive side.






Photo says enough.






Look at the foil on the batteries bottom.






Photo says enough.


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## Marko

Remon said:


> Both genuine Eneloops.



Really? How many vent holes Batterijenhuis -version has?


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## Remon

Four! They are identical, except the label.

I've send a e-mail to Sanyo Europe, and they replied to me that they are in process of changing the battery labels due new European regulations...


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## rookiedaddy

this is interesting... :thinking:
i'm starting to wonder if there are any fake Eneloop that also hold their charge after 6 months, if it does and it offers higher capacity, perhaps they should just market it using their own brand?

Remon: do you have a closer shot of the cell from Batterijenhuis that shows a clearer text? would like to get some clarification from Sanyo 

btw, all my Eneloop comes in "over-protective" packaging, it looks exactly like this packaging from batterijenhuis. The inner packaging is good enough to be use as a battery holder. 
Below is the packaging I received:


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## Remon

The Eneloops from Batterijenhuis (old batch) and Conrad (new batch) came both in a identical plastc/carton blister. Not in the package shown on their website. Only difference was the date of production printed on the back.






Above: old batch from Batterijenhuis
Under: new batch from Conrad

I don't have more photo's from the old Eneloop batch. I give them away to a friend.


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## Sugarboy

seriously, i wonder why you people keep buying from DX..


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## Sugarboy

Marko said:


> Here is the front of the new packaging that I received, it looks very much like the genuine one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My cells has similar ridge like fake cells on rookiedaddy's pictures. You can see it here, fake one on the right.



even the packaging is not that "very much like the genuine on"..

pay close attention on the font & the colors..:ironic:


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## rookiedaddy

Remon said:


> The Eneloops from Batterijenhuis (old batch) and Conrad (new batch) came both in a identical plastc/carton blister. Not in the package shown on their website. Only difference was the date of production printed on the back.
> 
> I don't have more photo's from the old Eneloop batch. I give them away to a friend.


Thanks... the new image is good enough :thumbsup:, I shall forward to Sanyo and ask if they produce different version for different region (I'm from Asia). It would be interesting to get their feedback. :naughty:


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## Marko

Sugarboy said:


> even the packaging is not that "very much like the genuine on"..
> 
> pay close attention on the font & the colors..:ironic:




Are we looking at the same packaging? :thinking: Fonts looks exactly the same to me, since its probably photocopied like Mr Happy mentioned eralier. Colors may vary a bit just because of different white balance settings.


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## Mr Happy

Some details of the design and labeling have certainly varied over time.

Here are three eneloops; 2005 USA (left), 2009 USA (middle), 2008 Japan (right):






Note how the blue ink is slightly darker on the newer ones and the positive button is slightly taller. Also note the slight ridge around the top of the older cell that is absent from the newer ones.











As has been noted previously in this thread the "small print" has been changed to a different layout on newer cells.






This shows clearly how the older cell has a transparent overlay on the wrapping where the new cells have a single layer opaque covering. The squarish button with four vent holes is also very evident. This is probably the single most distinguishing feature of the eneloop. So far no fake cells have been seen to have this design.


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## Sugarboy

Marko said:


> Are we looking at the same packaging? :thinking: Fonts looks exactly the same to me, since its probably photocopied like Mr Happy mentioned eralier. Colors may vary a bit just because of different white balance settings.



Obviously not the same font. Also the space between each character & "boldness" of each character is very not the same.


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## Sugarboy

i keep the packaging just in case i need to compare..

that's what i bought from a reputable brick & mortar battery store in Hong Kong around a year ago.

Please note there's a laser "anti-fake" sticker (the shiny silver one) & a blue sticker saying "Cell Made In Japan (MIJ), can be charged approx. 1,000 times"

Also, the Sanyo website should read "www.sanyohk.com" on the back


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## VidPro

Remon said:


> Both genuine Eneloops.
> 
> Photo says enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


 
The right one looks like a fake, i have never seen a real eneloop with that type of top nipple, do you have testing equiptment?

i would like to play along with this whole thread, like a Matching Game, but everything IDed so far by others correlates with all the other information.
that just leaves this one. missed out on all the fun


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## VidPro

rookiedaddy said:


> The inner packaging is good enough to be use as a battery holder.
> Below is the packaging I received:


 
that is how most of mine come too, the pakaging keeps them from damage, especially when going postal


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## Remon

VidPro said:


> The right one looks like a fake, i have never seen a real eneloop with that type of top nipple, do you have testing equiptment?



The right one is real for sure. I bought it together with a quick charger from a Sanyo store locator recommended shop. http://www.eneloop.info/where-to-buy/europe/netherland.html

For verification, i bought also a twinpack from another recommended store. That ones are exactly the same as the right one on the quoted photo.

The capacity of the batteries are around 1970 mAh. I've test that with a Maha Powerex C9000 charger/analyzer.

I'm also hanging around on a dutch forum, with a big batteries discussion thread. The people along there verified both batches as genuine.

Later i bought cheap Eneloops from a guy in that thread, he bought them directly from Sanyo, and are exactly the same. They came in bulk packaging to him:


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## Sugarboy

digitor said:


> The "over 2500 mAh" figure is not the capacity - it's the energy that was put into the cell during the charge. The final figure is the capacity, and it sounds about right for an Eneloop tested with a current model C9000.
> 
> Have a close look at the positive terminal - if it has four vents, and looks a bit squarish, it's probably a genuine Eneloop. Also, check on which side of the seam the date code is printed.
> 
> I bought four packs of Eneloops in HK a few weeks ago, (dirt cheap from Apliu St. - HK$63 per pack) and the packaging looks identical to the DX pics, but the cells have the characteristic positive terminal shape, and return capacities of around 2000 mAh on a break-in. They seem to be as genuine as the other 40 cells I have, but have no outer clear shrink wrap over the white one. Date code is 08-11 UI.
> 
> Cheers



Most Eneloops in Apliu St. are actually fake..

I live in Hong Kong.. The real ones should bear an "anti-fake" sticker on the packaging..


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## VidPro

Remon said:


> The right one is real for sure. I bought it together with a quick charger from a Sanyo store locator recommended shop. http://www.eneloop.info/where-to-buy/europe/netherland.html
> 
> For verification, i bought also a twinpack from another recommended store. That ones are exactly the same as the right one on the quoted photo.



are you sure you posted the correct picture of the one you purchaced from a reliable source? and not the one you bought from the bulk pack?


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## Remon

VidPro said:


> are you sure you posted the correct picture of the one you purchaced from a reliable source? and not the one you bought from the bulk pack?


I took the photo before i bought the Eneloops from the bulk pack.

The batteries from the bulk pack are also genuine for sure.


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## Mr Happy

Sugarboy said:


> even the packaging is not that "very much like the genuine one"..
> 
> pay close attention on the font & the colors..:ironic:





Sugarboy said:


> Obviously not the same font. Also the space between each character & "boldness" of each character is very not the same.



I held up a genuine package to the screen for comparison. The printing and graphics are identical in each. I can't find even the minutest difference. I would say the fake package is a photographic reproduction of the original.

Note that the package you pictured is a Hong Kong package. The package we are discussing is the USA version.


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## Turbo DV8

Remon said:


>


 
Looking a this picture gave me multiple orgasms for the first time in my life... 

This notion of so many different Eneloops, and which ones are really fake and which ones aren't, make me want to just stick with Duraloops. Any reports on DuraFakes yet?


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## Bones

VidPro said:


> The right one looks like a fake, i have never seen a real eneloop with that type of top nipple, do you have testing equiptment?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Although I initially thought the postive post on the cell on the right was the same as that on the counterfeit reported by Marko, perhaps it's just an optical illusion caused by the angle of the shot.

Taking into consideration Remon's statement in post 45 that it has four vent holes, I now seem to discern the more squarish shape and the very top portions of the type of vent found on genuine Eneloops.

Providing the one-piece cover is really durable, the lack of a clear cover over the label material may actually be a good thing if it allows better heat dissipation.


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## Sugarboy

Mr Happy said:


> I held up a genuine package to the screen for comparison. The printing and graphics are identical in each. I can't find even the minutest difference. I would say the fake package is a photographic reproduction of the original.
> 
> Note that the package you pictured is a Hong Kong package. The package we are discussing is the USA version.



I'm trying to say if your Eneloops are genuine, & really bought on ebay/some online store claiming to be from Hong Kong, you should expect the packaging to be the same as mine.

No, I think i'll post the comparison later..


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## digitor

Sugarboy said:


> Most Eneloops in Apliu St. are actually fake..


So I've heard - that's why I was a bit concerned until I tested them all. They've got identical charge/discharge characteristics to all the other Eneloops I've got, so I'm sure these ones are genuine. I'm leaving a set for three months when I'll check the charge retention as well.

Cheers


----------



## Sugarboy

digitor said:


> So I've heard - that's why I was a bit concerned until I tested them all. They've got identical charge/discharge characteristics to all the other Eneloops I've got, so I'm sure these ones are genuine. I'm leaving a set for three months when I'll check the charge retention as well.
> 
> Cheers



Some people even say those fake combo pack (with charger) can be fake altogether !! :sick2:


----------



## Mr Happy

Sugarboy said:


> I'm trying to say if your Eneloops are genuine, & really bought on ebay/some online store claiming to be from Hong Kong, you should expect the packaging to be the same as mine.



I said the same thing myself:



Mr Happy said:


> Also, as I mentioned before, doesn't it seem a little odd to get a package distributed by "Sanyo Energy (U.S.A.) Corporation" from a vendor in Hong Kong? I would find that quite suspicious in itself.



But apparently it isn't the case:



digitor said:


> The four packs that I recently got in HK have got "Manufactured for: SANYO Energy (U.S.A.)" etc. written on the back, and they are definitely genuine. I must admit that I wasn't sure about that until I got them home and tested them all though!



I have no idea how packages destined for the US market are finding their way to Hong Kong, but it does appear to be happening.


----------



## Sugarboy

(_Moderator note: Oversized pic removed IAW CPF Image Rules._)

My unprofessional comparison. :thinking:

Not sure which one is real..:thinking:


----------



## Mr Happy

Sugarboy said:


> Not sure which one is real..:thinking:


I can tell you for sure the one on the left is real since that's my photo 

That is a pack of eneloops I bought in Fry's, and the 'eneloop' name is messed up where I tore of the price label. Fry's has a very annoying habit of sticking big price labels in exactly the wrong place


----------



## Sugarboy

Mr Happy said:


> I can tell you for sure the one on the left is real since that's my photo
> 
> That is a pack of eneloops I bought in Fry's, and the 'eneloop' name is messed up where I tore of the price label. Fry's has a very annoying habit of sticking big price labels in exactly the wrong place



Hope you can see the differences now. I'm very font-sensitive


----------



## VidPro

Bones said:


> Although I initially thought the postive post on the cell on the right was the same as that on the counterfeit reported by Marko, perhaps it's just an optical illusion caused by the angle of the shot.
> .


 
yes, mabey optical delusions i am having


----------



## xenonk

Turbo DV8 said:


> Any reports on DuraFakes yet?


Yeah, their own black-topped ones. :nana:


----------



## Mr Happy

Sugarboy said:


> Hope you can see the differences now. I'm very font-sensitive


Here's a better quality picture of the same package. Does it still look different?






I think the picture is a little blurry due to in-camera noise reduction and due to being recorded at 640x480 resolution, but apart from that it does capture the true appearance of the package.


----------



## Sugarboy

Mr Happy said:


> Here's a better quality picture of the same package. Does it still look different?



My eyes still say yes.. 

the colors are less saturated tho..


----------



## Mr Happy

I can't comment on the colors. I don't have a color calibrated monitor, and in any case your monitor might be different from mine. I can tell you the top of the package is sort of cyan/turquoise, almost heading away from shades of blue.


----------



## Marko

Sugarboy said:


> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2484/3802900932_6c4564530b_b.jpg
> 
> My unprofessional comparison. :thinking:



Thanks for resizing the pictures to match, now even I can see the slight difference of fonts.  My picture (the one on the right) was taken with mobile phone, witch has automatic white balance - so colors may not correspond to the reality. The white "eneloop" text is actually white at my packaging, so it could be used to set the white balance. I can send a bigger version of the picture if needed.




Remon said:


>



Oh I'm glad I didn't bought that much fakes....


----------



## Lite_me

Remon said:


> The capacity of the batteries are around 1970 mAh. I've test that with a Maha Powerex C9000 charger/analyzer.


Let's see how long it takes to Discharge and run Break-in mode on a MaHa C9000 for this entire box of cells.

Ready... Set... Go!  :laughing:


----------



## xenonk

Lite_me said:


> Let's see how long it takes to Discharge and run Break-in mode on a MaHa C9000 for this entire box of cells.
> 
> Ready... Set... Go!  :laughing:


500 cells @ 4 cells per ~40hr cycle = 208 days, 8 hours.

Guess I'll check back next year.


----------



## DimeRazorback

I don't want to sound stupid, but if they are made in Japan, why would they ship from Hong Kong?? :thinking:


----------



## VidPro

DimeRazorback said:


> I don't want to sound stupid, but if they are made in Japan, why would they ship from Hong Kong?? :thinking:


 
Dealer - vrses manufacture , or manufacture location etc.


----------



## DimeRazorback

So I'm guessing the dealer was in Hong Kong then :nana: 

I'm sleepy lol :shakehead


----------



## Sugarboy

DimeRazorback said:


> So I'm guessing the dealer was in Hong Kong then :nana:
> 
> I'm sleepy lol :shakehead



there's no sales/VAT tax/customs duty (except for things like cigarette, alcohol, gasoline etc) in Hong Kong..

so things are supposed to be way cheaper..


----------



## Turbo DV8

xenonk said:


> Yeah, their own black-topped ones. :nana:


 
OK, smartie, I mean besides those! If Duracell's, whether white or black-topped, were to be counterfeited and start showing up with the electrical characteristics of the non-LSD Eneloop fakes, it might go virtually unnoticed for some time since most who would know the difference, such as here, would just be springing for Eneloops in the first place.


----------



## Bones

Turbo DV8 said:


> OK, smartie, I mean besides those! If Duracell's, whether white or black-topped, were to be counterfeited and start showing up with the electrical characteristics of the non-LSD Eneloop fakes, it might go virtually unnoticed for some time since most who would know the difference, such as here, would just be springing for Eneloops in the first place.



I find it more difficult to believe there aren't counterfeit Duracells in circulation than that there are. However, with genuine Duracells being more readily available than the Eneloop, it seems less likely those with the knowledge to identify them as counterfeit would source them from locations where they tend to accumulate, such as Hong Kong.

It's also feasible that they aren't near as proliferate as counterfeit Eneloops because they provide less margin for profit. It must be pretty difficult for your poor, hard-working counterfeiter to make a dishonest buck with vendors world-wide almost routinely blowing genuine Duracells out the door at what seems like fire-sale prices.


----------



## phlowcus

*DX 4*AAA Recykos (sku 8980) fake or real?*

Hi all,
I just received my 1st AAA recykos from DX and I'd like to get some help on finding out if they are genuine GP recykos or not. The package looked flawless and official (chinese version as shown on DX product page) and the batteries itself seem good, too (they do seem to be a bit thicker than other AAA's I have though).





Only my initial refresh-cycle with my IPC-1L (=BC 700) shows some too-good-to-be-true capacities (1029,1000,931,993 mAh):






What do you think, please?


----------



## lcdsantos

Oh my god, there are GP Reckyo fakes now? They was my last hope from DX... :thumbsdow

How we, poor brazilians, can buy good and honest-priced LSD AA batteries? :shakehead

Best regards,
Luis Santos


----------



## rookiedaddy

Remon said:


> Above: old batch from Batterijenhuis
> Under: new batch from Conrad


Received a reply from Sanyo, that both cells are authentic with the one having the slight ridge as the 1st generation eneloop battery because the battery uses conventional ‘battery jacket’ (tube), while the later uses a different type of battery jacket & is the latest eneloop in running production.


----------



## Rod911

I bought a 4-pack of eneloops for DX and taken delivery of it recently. Having a look at the pictures from this thread, it looks as if DX are back to selling counterfeits.

I took the liberty and taken pictures of the cells I bought and compared them to a packet I bought from eBay which looks to be genuine compared to the cells bought in DX.

The pictures can be found here in a PDF via megaupload.

Also, having a look at the DX bought eneloops, they seem to have discharged more than 'typical' LSD cells.



Code:


Date     Battery Number     Charge Option          Capacity at end of charge
16/09/09     1              Break-in "2000mah"         2018 
             2              Break-in "2000mah"         2029
             3              Break-in "2000mah"         2083
             4              Break-in "2000mah"         1998
25/09/09     1              Discharge "500ma"          1850 
             2              Discharge "500ma"          1823
             3              Discharge "500ma"          1883 
             4              Discharge "500ma"          1852

The above four cells, on average, discharged 8.85% of their capacity after a week (the break-in cycle ended on 18/09/09). From what I've read, the week long discharge rate is a tad bit higher than expected from LSD cells.

I have yet been able to test out the discharge rate of the eBay bought eneloops as it has been less than a week since the break-in cycle.

I am mid-way in the process of consulting with a representative from Sanyo Australia to confirm if either of the DX or eBay bought cells are fake.


----------



## zipplet

Rod911 said:


> I am mid-way in the process of consulting with a representative from Sanyo Australia to confirm if either of the DX or eBay bought cells are fake.


Please do let us hear what Sanyo have to say! This kind of input is invaluable, thank you.


----------



## Turbo DV8

More telling would have been the eveness of the voltages straight out of the package before discharging, and the discharge capacities before doing the break-in or any charge.


----------



## Rod911

Turbo DV8 said:


> More telling would have been the eveness of the voltages straight out of the package before discharging, and the discharge capacities before doing the break-in or any charge.


 I did do a discharge before the break-in, but neglected to record what the capacity was. 
I only remembered to record the right-out-of-the-packet discharge figure for a set of Imedion LSDs that arrived on the same day. On average, they had 74% capacity before a break-in session. The Imedions went through the same 7-day discharge test and they averaged a 6.63% capacity drop compared to DX eneloop's 8.85%.


----------



## Rod911

I decided to hedge by bets and ask both Sanyo Australia and Sanyo US.

Below are their (belated) responses.



Code:


Hi Rod911,
 
I have been advised by Japan that from the images that you have supplied the batteries appear to be real items, but this cannot be guaranteed from pictures .
 
Items sold in Korea and US are different due to production adjustment, but their performance should be the same.
 
I would recommend that if you have any performance issues with the eneloop’s that you have purchased online, you should contact the original seller.
 
 
Thank you for your inquiry.
 
Regards,
 
Ash
 
Channel Account Manager - Eneloop Universe | Sanyo Oceania Pty Ltd

 


Code:


[FONT=Arial]Rod911,[/FONT] 
 
[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]Thank you for providing such detailed images of your eneloop batteries.  [/SIZE][/FONT] 
 
[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]I inspected each photo and compared each to known legitimate eneloop batteries.  All features are consistent with true eneloop products.  [/SIZE][/FONT] 
 
[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]Did you have a performance issue with the batteries?  If so, please send the defective batteries to my attention at the physical address under  my signature along with proof of purchase and your ship-to address for the good batteries.  [/SIZE][/FONT] 
 
[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]Please advise.  [/SIZE][/FONT] 
 
[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]Thanks,[/SIZE][/FONT]
 
[SIZE=2][FONT=sans-serif]Derek[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=sans-serif]Marketing Manager[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=sans-serif]Consumer Solutions Division[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][FONT=sans-serif]SANYO North America[/FONT][/SIZE]

 
Note that I did send Derek another email with my week long test results in the previous page, but I was later advised that they were consistent of LSD batteries, despite a higher discharge figure compared to the Imedions that I had handy at the time of testing.

So I guess DX are selling genuine eneloops after all. Hard to believe, huh?


----------



## malow

i just received my eneloops from focalprice, all aspects looks genuine (4 holes, top and bottom metal style, inscriptions, datecode, came with 1.32v.

package are exactly like Sugarboy one:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3041583&postcount=54

also same package as site, buth with different sticks:


----------



## Rod911

It's been 50 days since purchasing eneloops from DX. The results aren't as I had hoped for:






The above four cells, on average, discharged 36.73% of their capacity after 50 days. I guess they're not genuine after all...

edit: these are the results from the cells I purchased from eBay. Please refer to the results for my "A" set:






The eBay purchased cells, on average, discharged 10.24% of their original capacity whilst remaining idle for 53 days.


----------



## Jekku

i just received 2 packs of AA x 4 eneloops from DX.

Observations (luckily i had some genuine reference ones to compare with):
- The packaging looks the same as in post #28
- Date code is more unreadable
- The small prints are according to the 2009 USA design in post #52
- Smaller, shorter and more round button compared to the reference one (see pic)
- Different lengths, the received batteries has longer body + shorter button (see pic)

Measured them all with the C9000 charger and the results (break-in 2000mAh) final capacity: 2254 to 2279 mAh

I ran a refresh cycle (1000/500 mah) as well to check the status and the end results: 2090 to 2244 mAh

Reference battery on the left:




Reference battery on the left:




Smells like fake ones to me... :-(


----------



## Bones

Jekku said:


> i just received 2 packs of AA x 4 eneloops from DX.
> 
> Observations (luckily i had some genuine reference ones to compare with):
> - The packaging looks the same as in post #28
> - Date code is more unreadable
> - The small prints are according to the 2009 USA design in post #52
> - Smaller, shorter and more round button compared to the reference one (see pic)
> - Different lengths, the received batteries has longer body + shorter button (see pic)
> 
> Measured them all with the C9000 charger and the results (break-in 2000mAh) final capacity: 2254 to 2279 mAh
> 
> I ran a refresh cycle (1000/500 mah) as well to check the status and the end results: 2090 to 2244 mAh
> 
> Reference battery on the left:
> 
> [Eneloop Side-by-Side Image 1]
> 
> Reference battery on the left:
> 
> [Eneloop Side-by-Side Image 2]
> 
> Smells like fake ones to me... :-(



I concur Jekku.

I also remain astonished that, even with the detailed side-by-side images he provided in hand, Sanyo representatives in both Australia and the United States couldn't discern the obvious physical differences, and informed Rod911 that the appearance of these counterfeit cells was "consistent with true Eneloop products".

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post3120140

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post3161752

The proprietors of DealExtreme and their counterfeiters must be chortling with glee...


----------



## Locoboy5150

Wow, scary! I'm so glad that I got the real-deal Eneloop batteries. I bought mine from Battery Junction recently and I have no regrets with my Eneloop purchase or any other stuff that I bought from there.


----------



## Rod911

Bones said:


> The proprietors of DealExtreme and their counterfeiters must be chortling with glee...


Funnily enough, I did go back to DX and informed them that they had provided me with fake eneloops by showing them the discharge data I collected as well as the pictures (yes, the same ones sent to Sanyo), and they've come back to me saying that they'll replace them.

As you all would have probably guessed by now, this is not my preferred outcome because there is a 99.99% chance that the replacements they're sending me will be fake as well. 

One other thing, with the fake eneloops, the MH-C9000 is simply eating up the wrapping. Every time I take it out of the charger, the negative charging point catch onto the wrapping. This does not happen to genuine eneloops.


----------



## Bones

Rod911 said:


> Funnily enough, I did go back to DX and informed them that they had provided me with fake eneloops by showing them the discharge data I collected as well as the pictures (yes, the same ones sent to Sanyo), and they've come back to me saying that they'll replace them.
> 
> As you all would have probably guessed by now, this is not my preferred outcome because there is a 99.99% chance that the replacements they're sending me will be fake as well.
> ...



Many thanks for the update Rod911, and please do let us know what DX replaces their counterfeit cells with.



Rod911 said:


> ...
> One other thing, with the fake eneloops, the MH-C9000 is simply eating up the wrapping. Every time I take it out of the charger, the negative charging point catch onto the wrapping. This does not happen to genuine eneloops.



Insofar as the MH-C9000's tendency to tear wrappers on lessor quality cells is concerned, you may find this post helpful:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post2810241
.


----------



## Billy Ram

Here's some I recently recieved if this helps.




These aren't counterfit.
Billy


----------



## jefierro

Billy Ram said:


> Here's some I recently recieved if this helps.
> 
> These aren't counterfit.
> Billy



This is the package that mine came with 2 weeks ago, I like the hologram.


----------



## Bones

Billy Ram said:


> Here's some I recently recieved if this helps.
> 
> [Image...]
> 
> These aren't counterfit.
> 
> Billy



Hi Billy,

I just noticed your post so, just to be sure, did you actually purchase these Eneloops via this link on DealExtreme:

http://www.dealextreme.com/... /sku.6807

Thanks.


----------



## Billy Ram

Bones said:


> Hi Billy,
> 
> I just noticed your post so, just to be sure, did you actually purchase these Eneloops via this link on DealExtreme:
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/... /sku.6807
> 
> Thanks.


 No I didn't get mine from DX. They came from here http://www.thomasdistributing.com/s...ml?SP_id=50&osCsid=a98rm8a91donrsllit8gi3gna7
Billy


----------



## Bones

Billy Ram said:


> No I didn't get mine from DX.They came from here http://www.thomasdistributing.com/shop/sanyo-eneloop-aa-2000.
> Billy



Okay, thanks Billy.

I guess we'll have to continue to presume DealExtreme is pushing counterfeit Eneloops until they actually prove otherwise.

C'est La Vie...


----------



## Magic Matt

I wish I had read this thread before ordering 5 packs of 8 AA eneloop batteries via Amazon UK. The batteries are coming from a seller on the Amazon Marketplace and is located in Germany. I'm really nervous now, especially as the weather is going to hold up delivery a lot.

I half expect somebody to now come back and say that eneloops are not sold in packs of 8.


----------



## zipplet

Hi Magic Matt,

You will probably be OK as you bought from a European seller. I have not seen packs of 8 but they might exist (please, someone chime in). However I have bought a 'pack of 8' before from an eBay seller and ended up with 2x packs of 4 (genuine). I no longer use eBay for eneloops for obvious reasons though.


----------



## Bones

I agree with zipplet that you should be okay, especially when sourcing from a European vendor.

As well, the Eneloop eight pack has been around for as long as the Eneloop itself:

http://us.sanyo.com/Battery-Products/AA-8-Pack

Not that it's ever a problem with the Eneloop anyway, but it's also the pack of choice for owners of the Fenik TK-40 to ensure that all eight cells are as closely matched as possible:

http://www.fenixlight.com/viewnproduct.asp?id=41
.


----------



## Magic Matt

Bones said:


> ...it's also the pack of choice for owners of the Fenik TK-40....





Yes, I got a little bit of money that I wasn't expecting and I have ordered a TK40 from flashaholics.co.uk 

....but we have no post so it will probably take ages to get here! :mecry:


----------



## webologist

I'm guessing dealextreme are still sending out fake batteries! I just got 3 packs of these. What does everyone think?


----------



## mfm

webologist said:


> What does everyone think?



Fake.


----------



## shadowjk

"batterieswith" too.


----------



## Jekku

webologist said:


> I'm guessing dealextreme are still sending out fake batteries! I just got 3 packs of these. What does everyone think?


Definite fake ones.

Btw, still waiting for my replacements from DX...


----------



## Locoboy5150

This thread is just further proof of why I have never bought anything from Deal Extreme. I don't have much confidence in them as a reputable vendor based on this and other threads I've read here on CPF.

It wouldn't surprise me if they don't offer a replacement for these phony "Eneloop" batteries because they can't tell the difference themselves.


----------



## don.gwapo

I got my eneloop from Amazon. I have the 4AA installed on the charger package itself just like those Energizer and Duracell rechageable and also bought AAA together. Are those from Amazon real or fake? Thanks.


----------



## flasherByNight

don.gwapo said:


> I got my eneloop from Amazon. I have the 4AA installed on the charger package itself just like those Energizer and Duracell rechageable and also bought AAA together. Are those from Amazon real or fake? Thanks.



think you'd have to mention who the actual distributor is much less provide pictures to get any kind of meaningful response.



Is anyone else attempting to let Sanyo know about these fakes other than that one email? They're certainly a big enough company to put the smack down....


----------



## McAllan

Art said:


> Unfortunately I do not have any way to measure the charge... no maha here (only for car dynos lol never mind) or even a lacrosse so the only readings I got was the voltage.



Not entirely true.
The Maha C9000 in disguise you can buy from ELV which ships to all of europe. I've bought mine there.
ELV also has LaCrosse (not called LaCrosse but BC-700, BC-900 etc) but I really don't recommend those. Read about all the posts with LaCrosse meltdowns. Pay a little bit for the Maha and get better quality.

Also Conrad has very good chargers. They're called "Charge Manager".
I have an old version capable of taking 4 cells up to D size. Technically superior to even the Maha (more expensive too ) but I don't use it very much because it has an annoying fan to cool the power supply.
My version is so old it has an iron core trafo power supply which gets hot when charging with 2 amps - bought before Y2K. Perhaps the newer models with switch modes PSUs are more silent - at least they should be as switch mode PSUs are much more efficient. So except for perhaps a fan (double check the version you'll be buying) they're highly recommended. Believe you won't find any better charger than the Charge Managers except for very expensive industrial types. From my experience it seems to be more gentle to the cells while not charging them any slower than other chargers. They don't heat up as much as say in the Maha.
Goto www.conrad.com and search for "Charge Manager".

Hope this'll help some lost Europeans choosing a good quality charger with capacity measurement, exercise programs and many more features.


----------



## Art

Hey I forgot this thread.

I ended up buying a maha charger.. it was 60€ including shipping.

I also tested the cells that start this thread and they all seem ok. Did a 30 day self discharge test and they performed ok... I dont have the chart here now but they had more then 1800mah after 30days and they have less then 1950mah if a refresh is done.

So they really are originals and I bought more from same store and all are ok.
What I did not like was to buy a set of 2700 Sanyos and they where all 2500mah...

Regards,


----------



## enforcer

Mine have no date printed on them at all, however I didn't keep the cardboard packaging so it could have been on there.

Got mine from direct from www.amazon.co.uk, so most likely are genuine.


----------



## vali

enforcer said:


> Mine have no date printed on them at all, however I didn't keep the cardboard packaging so it could have been on there.
> 
> Got mine from direct from www.amazon.co.uk, so most likely are genuine.



Are you sure they have no date? I never saw a legit eneloop without the date marks. Do you have a way to test their real capacity?


----------



## Mr Happy

enforcer said:


> Mine have no date printed on them at all, however I didn't keep the cardboard packaging so it could have been on there.


The date can be hard to read. Have you looked under good light with a magnifier?


----------



## Bones

enforcer said:


> Mine have no date printed on them at all, however I didn't keep the cardboard packaging so it could have been on there.
> 
> Got mine from direct from www.amazon.co.uk, so most likely are genuine.



I agree, especially if your order was fulfilled by Amazon. However, they really should have a date code as well.

As noted by Mr Happy, it can be difficult to discern though, so perhaps the example depicted in this image provided by forum member Russel will be of assistance:





You will note the code is situated along the longitudinal axis of the cell just above the seam.

For those not familiar with the Sanyo's protocol, it's also comprised of four digits followed by two additional characters. The first two digits denote the year and second two the month of manufacture.


----------



## tigervyh

Hey guys,

with all these fakes/authentic eneloops that may or may not be easily recognizable, anyone had any problems/issues with using them? I mean for the people who knows that they got some fake ones, did any of them experience any over heating / leaking , etc.

thanks.


----------



## vali

The problem is not they are dangerous, but AFAIK all of the fakes are cheap noname non-LSD NiMH.


----------



## brianp6621

Bones said:


> I agree, especially if your order was fulfilled by Amazon. However, they really should have a date code as well.
> 
> As noted by Mr Happy, it can be difficult to discern though, so perhaps the example depicted in this image provided by forum member Russel will be of assistance:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You will note the code is situated along the longitudinal axis of the cell just above the seam.
> 
> For those not familiar with the Sanyo's protocol, it's also comprised of four digits followed by two additional characters. The first two digits denote the year and second two the month of manufacture.



So I'm assuming that is a fake because that code doesn't look like any genuine Eneloop and there is not 14th month.

My eneloops have something like 09-09SP


----------



## Bones

brianp6621 said:


> So I'm assuming that is a fake because that code doesn't look like any genuine Eneloop and there is not 14th month.
> 
> My eneloops have something like 09-09SP



Hi Brian,

If you take another look at my statement as to Sanyo's protocol for setting down the date of manufacture, you will note it's actually determined by the first four digits, with the first two denoting the year and the second two denoting the month of manufacture.

Accordingly, the referenced cell was manufactured in August of 2006, and its code is therefore not itself indicative of a counterfeit cell.

It's generally presumed the last two characters, which can be either numerals or letters, are a batch code. However, I've never seen this presumption substantiated.


----------



## tigervyh

vali said:


> The problem is not they are dangerous, but AFAIK all of the fakes are cheap noname non-LSD NiMH.



So, for a guy like me without any testing tools, if the eneloops I bought recently, which looks authentic but may still be fake, if it acts like a authentic eneloop should, i.e. retain charge after few weeks/months, are readily charged from the pack - can let me take 100+ photos, etc., then they should be authentic?


----------



## brianp6621

Bones said:


> Hi Brian,
> 
> If you take another look at my statement as to Sanyo's protocol for setting down the date of manufacture, you will note it's actually determined by the first four digits, with the first two denoting the year and the second two denoting the month of manufacture.
> 
> Accordingly, the referenced cell was manufactured in August of 2006, and its code is therefore not itself indicative of a counterfeit cell.
> 
> It's generally presumed the last two characters, which can be either numerals or letters, are a batch code. However, I've never seen this presumption substantiated.



Sorry, it is just from the picture, the 06 looks like a C6 so I thought the format was completely different from what I've seen and you describe. It still looks like C6 to me but that must either be the picture or the stamping on that particular cell.


----------



## Rod911

Bones said:


> Many thanks for the update Rod911, and please do let us know what DX replaces their counterfeit cells with.



Got my replacement cells from DX, and guess what? Yup, fake - well, at least they look like the same old fake ones that I bought from there.

I'm currently running it through a discharge cycle. I'll edit this post to report back what the out-of-the-box capacities are.

edit 1: One cell has already finished discharging (took only 49 minutes). Its capacity? Only 375mAH.
edit 2: Oh wait, another one just finished. This one took 55 minutes to discharge. Capacity of 414mAH.
edit 3: Left the cells to their own devices overnight and the other two cells read 570mAH (75 minutes) and 598mAH (80 minutes). Now that they've been discharged, I've put them through a break-in cycle. Hopefully I can get the results before Saturday evening when I go on my holiday.


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## don.gwapo

I'm off topic about this but is this good: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IV0RKE/?tag=cpf0b6-20. I think this is older than the eneloop that sanyo offer. Anyone who have experience on this batteries? I've got 4xAAA eneloop that is rated at 800mAh and i'm willing to try this for longer runtime if it's good. Any inputs are welcome. Thanks.


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## vali

tigervyh said:


> So, for a guy like me without any testing tools, if the eneloops I bought recently, which looks authentic but may still be fake, if it acts like a authentic eneloop should, i.e. retain charge after few weeks/months, are readily charged from the pack - can let me take 100+ photos, etc., then they should be authentic?



They should. When DX started to sell fakes the first thing people noticed were they came empty from the package or with a very low charge. That's the only way, without waiting a couple of months to test LSD capabilities, people without testing equipment ala C9000 are able to know if their cells are fake or not. At least I am not aware of another way without testing for the real capacity.



Rod911 said:


> Got my replacement cells from DX, and guess what? Yup, fake - well, at least they look like the same old fake ones that I bought from there.
> 
> I'm currently running it through a discharge cycle. I'll edit this post to report back what the out-of-the-box capacities are.
> 
> edit 1: One cell has already finished discharging (took only 49 minutes). Its capacity? Only 375mAH.
> edit 2: Oh wait, another one just finished. This one took 55 minutes to discharge. Capacity of 414mAH.



Ouch, that's a really big dissapointment. The first fakes were about 2400 mAh. Not LSD, but you could find some use to them. Try doing a few cycles to check if they improve a bit. Last time I found a NiMH cell somewhere in my home I got 316 mAh, but with a second try the capacity were around 1650 mAh and continued there for the next 5 cycles.



don.gwapo said:


> I'm off topic about this but is this good: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000IV0RKE/?tag=cpf0b6-20. I think this is older than the eneloop that sanyo offer. Anyone who have experience on this batteries? I've got 4xAAA eneloop that is rated at 800mAh and i'm willing to try this for longer runtime if it's good. Any inputs are welcome. Thanks.



These are regular NiMH, not LSD. If you want maximun capacity and be charging your cells just before usin them, they can be good. The drawbacks are the self-discharge and will probably need to be disposed way before the eneloops show any sign of weakness (eneloops are surprisingly tough).


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## Rod911

vali said:


> Ouch, that's a really big dissapointment. The first fakes were about 2400 mAh. Not LSD, but you could find some use to them. Try doing a few cycles to check if they improve a bit. Last time I found a NiMH cell somewhere in my home I got 316 mAh, but with a second try the capacity were around 1650 mAh and continued there for the next 5 cycles.



Yup, my first batch of fakes first had capacities of genuine eneloops when I did a break-in cycle. However, after doing a two month self-discharge test and charging the cells back up again, they got to between 2100 and 2450 mAH.

Updated my earlier post with the results from the other two cells. Now they're all going through a break-in cycle.


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## Mr Happy

vali said:


> That's the only way, without waiting a couple of months to test LSD capabilities, people without testing equipment ala C9000 are able to know if their cells are fake or not. At least I am not aware of another way without testing for the real capacity.


All the counterfeit cells I have seen pictured look completely different from genuine Eneloops. If you put one of the fake cells next to a genuine Eneloop the differences should be obvious.


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## ThunderDuck

Just purchased 6 x AA eneloops from an established Korean ebay seller. Came in sealed retail packs with plastic cases included. They appear to be 100% genuine and a big saving on inflated Australian prices.


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## constipated

ThunderDuck said:


> Just purchased 6 x AA eneloops from an established Korean ebay seller. Came in sealed retail packs with plastic cases included. They appear to be 100% genuine and a big saving on inflated Australian prices.



Do you have any way of testing like the Maha C9000 and doing self discharge testing.

Also do you mind sharing the ebay seller so that if your experience is good can buy from the same seller. (am also from Oz)


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## ThunderDuck

Apart from the visual inspection I checked initial and first cycle voltage and did a run time test to compare result with a known genuine enloop.
Will send you a PM with the sellers name ...


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## wildbill1

Will send you a PM with the sellers name ...[/QUOTE]
Me too if you can't post a link - thanks


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## mfm

Just check for some korean sellers:

http://stores.ebay.com/whatuneed4baby
http://stores.ebay.com/camera-girl

I bought korean Eneloops before and they were authentic.


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## constipated

mfm said:


> Just check for some korean sellers:
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/whatuneed4baby
> http://stores.ebay.com/camera-girl
> 
> I bought korean Eneloops before and they were authentic.


 
Knowing sellers is one thing.

Knowing the eneloops are genuine, tried and tested and verified through self discharge testing is another.

Ebay is not a safe place to buy batteries.

Genuine sellers are few and far between. Finding a good Genuine eneloop Ebayer is striking gold.


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## vali

I got my last eneloops in a German Ebay seller and they were legit eneloops. At least the external appearance is the same, and the results after a refresh and a break-in were consistent with the real ones. Unfortunately they only ship to Europe.

4xAA for 9 €. They buy them in bulk and sell them in small 4xAA plastic boxes (same boxes as some reputable stores give you for free when buying batteries). That way they probably get better prices and can sell the cells a bit cheaper.

Since I couldn't get cheaper eneloops anywhere, is this suitable for adding in the "good deals" section in the CPF marketplace? (9 € is not that good in the US, but here is almost a bargain).


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## mfm

constipated said:


> Finding a good Genuine eneloop Ebayer is striking gold.


Let me know when you find the first fake eneloops in korean retail packaging.


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## Tuikku

As I have read this thread from here and there, it seems like quite a lot fakes are out there. 

Surprisingly they seem relatively easy to detect.

eBay, Amazon & "deal" -sites are now practically out of the question when selecting a dealer.

Are there decent priced dealer, who have good reputation, good products (original-quality) AND will ship to foreing countries?
I rather pay some extra for right stuff this time.

Locally, I haven´t spotted any Eneloops even from specialized electronic shops :shakehead


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## mfm

Tuikku said:


> Locally, I haven´t spotted any Eneloops even from specialized electronic shops :shakehead



http://www.clasohlson.fi/Product/Product.aspx?id=146378503


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## Tuikku

mfm said:


> http://www.clasohlson.fi/Product/Product.aspx?id=146378503



Thanks for the link :wave:

25$ /4pcs, sadly no shipping available and closest store is 150 miles away 
They will get a bit pricy if I go-and-get-them.


Edit:
I think I found something: http://www.duracelldirect.fi/monikayttoinen/aa-ladattavat-paristot.html

Free shipping :thinking:

So, these "whitetops" are the right stuff?


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## zipplet

http://www.component-shop.co.uk/ ship internationally and carry eneloops. I ordered all of mine from them.


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## Tuikku

zipplet said:


> http://www.component-shop.co.uk/ ship internationally and carry eneloops. I ordered all of mine from them.



Ordered 4x AA and 4x AAA straight away! Very affordable shipping.
Thank you Very much for this link


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## vali

I am, more or less, in your same situation as I live in Europe too. The cheapest non-ebay seller I came across are component-shop.uk. Last time I bought there 4 cells, they were about 10 €.

I think that buying eneloops in ebay is risky too, but I have to say I bought 4 cells from an ebay seller and I got legit eneloops for 9 €. The main difference between them is the ebay seller get cells in bulk and then resell them with small cases (which you can get for free too in component-shop) whereas the uk store sell retail blisters. The other difference is component-shop list prices in pounds and you have to check the exchange rate (plus adding VAT and shipping) and the other one uses euros and free shipping, so you know beforehand how much it will cost.


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## RepProdigious

Here in the Netherlands there's a bloke buying eneloops from a Sanyo approved retailer and he re-sells them for very very sharp prices!

Because he buys alot he gets nice prices:






I bought 16 for under 30 euros! :twothumbs

Fresh cells too!


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## jivkonik

Hi all!
It's my first post in your great forum.
I've just received a pack of Eneloops from Amazon.uk - a seller is from Germany.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B003QQP7NU/ref=ox_ya_os_product

100% genuine, stamped 10-06, supplied in a plastic carry casess. The price is very tempting for European buyers, the shipping charge is very nice!
I'm happy happy happy :wave:


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## Dances with Flashlight

:welcome: And now that you have batteries....


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## Dean N

Well, I'm not sure if I just got real ones or not.

I just received 4x 8-packs of Eneloops from Amazon. HR-3UTGA. Description on Amazon says 2000 mAH, as does the packaging, but the batteries themselves state 1900 (HR-3utga 1.2v Min. 1,900mAh). Also, there is no space between "fire,nor". Everything else appears to be correct. Similar with the 2x 4-pack AAAs I got in the same order, except the mAh rating on Amazons site and the packaging states 800, whereas the battery itself and that site linked states 750.

These pictures are not of mine, but mine are identical to them:














On the mAh, according to this they should be 1900/750 mAh: http://panasonic.net/sanyo/news/2011/10/06-1.html. And then there is the Sanyo site that states 200 and 800: http://www.eneloop.info/products/batteries/eneloop.html. The packaging on the Sanyo site is nothing like what I got. Mine was green & blue "earth" packaging: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005ILYG4M/?tag=cpf0b6-20

I can't figure out what I have.This is frustrating.

Dean


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## Russel

Dean,

Your new Eneloops look real. Sanyo has changed a few things in the current 1500 cycle rated cells. Here are some photos of mine, compaired to older 1000 cycle rated Eneloops.


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## borrower

Russel, nice photography! Can I ask one question about your new ones? In the first bullet point, (in all caps, but I won't type that here) "-do not dispose in fire,nor short-circuit", is there a space between "fire," and "nor"? I've got some that don't have a space, and it seems suspicious. (That, and the date encoding is somewhat irregular.)


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## AIRASSAULT18B

Russel,

Sanyo needs to give you some customer service pay as you have helped many people including me to verify their authenticity. You got me motivated to do the same when there was the hidden vent hole doubters & the accusations against Thomas Dist . Now that is no longer a issue. As far as I know now there has not been a problem with fakes in the past year or two. Have you heard or seen any different ?


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## Dean N

Thanks for sharing that *Russel*. Mine are just like that. On the mAh rating, I found this on http://www.eneloop.info/products/batteries.html:






So, I suppose that would allow for some marketing and packaging flexibility. Also, I have the same grammar error on my new batteries that *Borrower* mentions. It is not due to physical space requirements, as the following sentence is longer.


*Borrower*, I was about to say the same about the photography. 


Dean


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## Dean N

I just sent Sanyo an email regarding the verbiage. I'll let you know what they say.

Dean


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## Mr Happy

The capacity question is no mystery. Eneloops HR-3UTG(A) have a nominal capacity of 2000 mAh, which means that any given battery you obtain may be a bit more, may be a bit less, but on average it will be around 2000 mAh. However, in spite of this variation around the nominal value, you are more or less guaranteed not to get a battery less than 1900 mAh. Eneloops have always been labeled this way right from the start in 2006.

This is of course a bit more information that you get from other battery manufacturers, who just give a single nominal value and leave it at that, with no hint of the statistical variation.

Your questions about this are an example of why other manufacturers may not be so forthcoming. Sanyo uniquely give more information than the rest, but then they may get "penalized" for this extra information when people get confused about what they are being told.


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## Dean N

It would help if there was consistency - put what is on the battery what is on the packaging, and the same on the informational websites. Newbies like me have been burned by similar "advertising anomalies", and now I am more cautious. Perhaps too cautious at times?

Separately, I did hear back from Sanyo on the verbiage:
*

Mr. Nelson,

Per our Sales Department, this is known typographically error.
Your batteries are genuine.

Thank you,

SANYO North America
Digital Solutions Division 
*


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## Mr Happy

Yes, Sanyo could describe the batteries everywhere as 1900 mAh or 750 mAh, but these are not "round" numbers like 2000 or 800. And most eneloops do come in closer to 2000 or 800 when measured (in fact, AAA's seem to come in over 800 most of the time). By giving you typical values and minimum values you get more information to go on.


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## borrower

Dean N, thanks for sharing the email. (Fast turnaround, I must say!)


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## Dean N

Yep, I was surprised at the fast response.


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## qwibbles

If only I had been a CPF member a few years ago .... Ah well I seem to have all fake eneloops apart from 4 cells. Thank you everyone on this thread and others. At least I know what to look for in future


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## artcheezzz

Hi i have some pictures of 3 packs of batteries and i`m cunfused after i read it all but wanna know which are real witch are not:
All bought in UK Ebay:
HR-3UTG First battery is bought with battery charger pack have 4 vented holes but have mark on top which not supposed to be? 
HR-3UTGA Second bought as 4 pack, battery dosnt have vented holes at all and and tops colours are diffrient.
HR-3UTGB Third same as second just have description dots diffrient.
So do i have any original SANYO eneloop or all they are fake?


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## Billspider

I am really new at this.
Do all new Eneloop Batteries have hidden vent holes?


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## Rod911

artcheezzz said:


> So do i have any original SANYO eneloop or all they are fake?



All your cells look genuine.




Billspider said:


> I am really new at this.
> Do all new Eneloop Batteries have hidden vent holes?



Depending on when the manufactured date of the cells.

To both of you, see Russell's excellent post #151.


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## sbbsga

artcheezzz said:


> HR-3UTG First battery is bought with battery charger pack have 4 vented holes but have mark on top which not supposed to be?
> HR-3UTGA Second bought as 4 pack, battery dosnt have vented holes at all and and tops colours are diffrient.
> HR-3UTGB Third same as second just have description dots diffrient.
> So do i have any original SANYO eneloop or all they are fake?



If I am not mistaken, HR-3UTG is the 1,000 cycles model. Meanwhile, HR-3UTGA and HR-3UTGB are the newer generations which have 1,500 cycles and 1,800 cycles respectively, as well as other improved features.


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## Billspider

Costco has the 10 pack of AA Eneloop Batteries for $15 today, they were $20 but there is a $4 coupon.
Wife just a called and picked me up a set.


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## artcheezzz

Billspider said:


> I am really new at this.
> Do all new Eneloop Batteries have hidden vent holes?



Hi thanks guys for quick replay.
Contacted the Eneloop and YES they make new generation batteries with grey tops and hidden vent holes (mine are 1800 cycles last to batteries in the picture), 
So they are genuine! Buy the packing witch looks exact same as in this web:
http://www.eneloop.info/eneloop-products/eneloop-batteries/eneloop.html*

Thanks for all!*


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## Billspider

I ran a break-in on 4 new Eneloop 2000 AA batteries from the 10 pack from Costco the final result on a Powerex Maha C9000 was

1 1993 mah 1.45 volt

2 2021 mah 1.45 volt

3 1991 mah 1.45 volt

4 2024 mah 1.45 volt

I'm happy with the results but a little surprised at the mah spread although within specs


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## awyeah

I've seen new-from-the-pack eneloops break in anywhere from ~1850 all the way up to a little over 2000. Older ones tend to test lower... if I had the patience, I'd try running the lower ones through a few break-ins in a row to see if that would increase them, but I don't think the time is worth 100mah.


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## Onthelightside

I get my Eneloops from Amazon. If they are fake then I will be ticked.


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## robcope

I have bought about 80 eneloop AA and AAA batteries from Amazon and have received no fakes. I do ensure they are sold and shipped by Amazon and not one of their merchants. Just seems safer that way.


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## Zorzi

This forum (and this thread in particular) has been really, really informative to me. It's a shame I didn't find it before. I bought some AA Eneloops from DX some years ago (2 packs of 4), and both backs, as I could check by the information provided in this thread, are fake. The batteries from one of the packs (that I bought first) look very well built, so I really believed those were genuine until this week (similar to the ones in #20), but the batteries from the other pack are clearly fake, as they diameter are slightly larger than the standard for AA, which makes it impossible to use them in some equipment, as they can get stuck. I quit buying Eneloops from DX since then. I've bought from eBay (many AAA packs) always and have had no issues. One hint for shopping in eBay (this is based solely in my personal experience): not sure if it is coincidence, but everything I have bought from South Korean vendors look genuine and I have had no issues with late delivery or anything else. Thus, when the prices have little difference, I usually prefer to buy from Korea, even paying a little more.

Cheers,

Zorzi


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## roroarro

Dear all
I'd like to know if these Eneloop are fake.
I bought them in a local shop here in Argentina.

They are made in China. No marking of production date.

I'm doing a test with Lacrosse BC700.
It ends the descharge fase (After charging them), marking around 2000 mAh (like 2004/2006 mAh) and around 1.5 V.


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## roroarro

i just received confirmation from Panasonic Argentina that the batteries are legit.


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