# Nichia CS in Solitaire Mod



## cratz2 (Dec 31, 2005)

Nothing fancy, but very usable. I had been using Snow 29 or Nichia CS LEDs in Minimag clones running on a 14500 LiON cell for a while and was quite impressed so when I read Led Zeppelin's thread on doing an MJLED in a Solitaire, I was inspired.

Pretty simple mod really, just assemble a Solitaire, a LiON 10440 (AAA-sized) cell and a Nichia CS LED. (I originally was planning on using one of the Peak Snow 29 LEDs but they are slightly larger and would require more work so I went with the brighter CS.) 

The hardest part by far is removing the reflector from the head of the Solitaire. Man! I actually gave up but then decided to give it another go. _Finally_ got it out after saying a number of very bad words. After it's removed, you need to enlargen the opening for the 5mm LED (vs the approx existing 3mm hole). I used a combination of a knife sort of scraping around from the back and a pointed diamond knife sharpening tool. Just take your time because you need to maintain adequate pressure against the LED to turn the light off and on.

Lastly, I've been sanding LEDs down lately. It trades away some throw and probably some brightness, but it leaves you with a HUGE hotspot... Actually, it's pretty much ALL hotspot. On Minimags and clones, I usually sputter the reflector as well further smoothing the beam but with the little Solitaire reflector, I decided to pass on that step... for now.

The end result? This is compared to an 2xAA Minimag with fresh alkaline cells. The very center of the Minimag is maybe 20% or 30% brighter, but as you can see, the Solitaire is putting out quite a bit more total light and the usable hotspot is radically larger with the sanded CS LED.







The tint of the middle of the beam is about accurate on my calibrated monitor but there isn't really the sunburst of white to blue how it looks here... it pretty much all looks like the center of the hotspot, color-wise.

And here's a relative closeup of what the sanded LED looks like in the Solitaire.






Overall, I'm quite happy. I'd like to do the same thing with a Snow 29 LED for better color and better runtime (as the Snow LEDs pull less current from the LiON cells than the CS LEDs do) but it will be quite a bit more work making it fit the hole in the reflector.

Again, not the brightest or most impressive light in the world, actually, I'm pretty sure this is my dimmest mod to date, but for around the house or even light duty outdoor work, it's bright enough. It's certainly brighter than my brightest Infinty Ultra which most people consider a very usable light.


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## cratz2 (Dec 31, 2005)

Oh, I also have done a few quasi runtime/current tests. These are AW's unprotected 10440 cells rated at 320 mAh.

On a cell fresh off the charger, it was pulling 170ma @ 4.21V
@ .5 hour 150ma @ 4.02V
@ 1 hour 140ma @ 3.84V
@ 1.5 hour 110ma @ 3.76V
@ 2 hours 120ma @ 3.69V
@ 2.5 hours 50ma @ 3.47V

I ended the test at 2 hour and 38 minutes as output seemed to be visibly dropping at that point.	I must admit that I was a bit disappointed at the runtime considering my LED_ASAP built, Luxeon-modded ARC AAA got about an hour and 40 minutes. And on a 14500 (AA-sized) LiON cell, the CSs give a lot more than 10 hours of runtime and they are rated at 750 mAh.






Still, since the Snow 29 LED only pulls about half the current off a fresh cell as the CS LED does, I'm hoping for at least 25% to 40% better runtime with that LED once I get one built.

Edit since I am an idiot!


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## Nitroz (Dec 31, 2005)

cratz2 said:


> Oh, I also have done a few quasi runtime/current tests. These are AW's unprotected 10440 cells rated at 320 mAh.
> 
> On a cell fresh off the charger, it was pulling 17ma @ 4.21V
> @ .5 hour 15ma @ 4.02V
> ...


What charger do you use?


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## cratz2 (Dec 31, 2005)

Nitroz said:


> What charger do you use?



Uh oh... that sounds like you have a negative idea in your head!





I just have two of those cheap little chargers that have the flip out wall wart and you can adjust two tension springs to charge pretty much ANY cell phone battery directly then it has a little pig tail that you can attach that has alligator clips on the end. I think it's like the cheapest LiON charger ever!

Are you concerned about the 4.21 initial voltage? Of course, my DMM is pretty crappy as well.


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## Nitroz (Dec 31, 2005)

cratz2 said:


> Uh oh... that sounds like you have a negative idea in your head!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Heheh... I have a DSD charger on the way and thought I might could use it to charge the 10440's. If not I might buy the AW's Nano charger and batts to use in a solitaire mod like yours.


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## chimo (Dec 31, 2005)

Cratz2, your current figures seem very low (by about a factor of 10). How were you measuring the current? V drop across a small resistor or one of the current scales on your DMM?

The runtimes and battery capacity indicate a starting current ove well over 100mA. Cheers,

Paul


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## cratz2 (Dec 31, 2005)

You're totally right... I'm an idiot!





My DMM reads in A rather than mA and I was forgetting to add the zero.

That would explain the shorter than expected runtimes... 

So.. what size resistor do I need to get current down to around 50-70 mA?


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## Nitroz (Dec 31, 2005)

WoW! I am suprised that LED is not toast. :laughing:


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## carrot (Dec 31, 2005)

From that picture, the light looks *incredibly* bright. Now I'm interested in trying my own Mag Solitare mod... Where can I buy a Nichia CS or two for a good price?


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## Nitroz (Dec 31, 2005)

carrot said:


> From that picture, the light looks *incredibly* bright. Now I'm interested in trying my own Mag Solitare mod... Where can I buy a Nichia CS or two for a good price?



You have to buy ten at $1 each but I am sure you will find other things to mod.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/100589


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## cratz2 (Dec 31, 2005)

Nitroz said:


> WoW! I am suprised that LED is not toast. :laughing:



Dude! Those CS LEDs *ROCK!* I have three Quest Minimag clones (with tail clickies) all running 14500 cells with a dummy cell. One has a C0-bin CS LED, one has a B0-bin CS LED and one has a Peak Snow 29 LED. The C0 CS LED has gone through three straight charge cycles... Three in a row, non-stop. Plus two more partial (but close to complete) various around the house use cycles and it's still as bright as the one with like 2 minutes use on it.

Now, I used a B0-bin for the Solitaire mod so I don't know if they will last as long as the C0s, but I'll find out. From the reports of the Snow 29 LED failures in the Peak lights, I'm going to assume they aren't quite as robust as the Nichia CSs but the tint is WAY nicer and they do pull less current in the Quest hosts than the CSs do.

For any of you guys that haven't played with the CS LEDs... you really need to! They are amazing for a 5mm LED that costs $1 each. I bought a light that was modded with 6 of the CS LEDs and a DB400 and it was by far the brightest light I've ever seen with 5mm LEDs... brighter than my 18 LED array light with whatever LEDs it came with.


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## carrot (Dec 31, 2005)

How much can a CS take before it burns out?


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## cratz2 (Dec 31, 2005)

carrot said:


> From that picture, the light looks *incredibly* bright. Now I'm interested in trying my own Mag Solitare mod... Where can I buy a Nichia CS or two for a good price?



It really is impressively bright. The picture may not tell everything, but it does not lie. The center of the Minimag is brighter than the center of the modded Solitaire but other than that little 1" square area, the CS-modded Solitaire wins hands down.

Our living room is relatively dark (dark carpet, dark furniture) and is 15x18 plus a 10 ft hall that leads into a 9 foot deep restroom. From the opposite corner of the living room, the Solitaire lights up the wall of the restroom which is about 35-40 feet away. I'm not saying it is intense, but light makes it in there. Anything within 10 feet or so is plenty well lit to find a dark item against the dark carpet.

I don't know what the throw or output would be on quickbeam's charts but it obviously puts out at least twice as much Infinity Ultra or the Inova X1 (though the Inova probably has a bit more throw with it's freaky beam) and I consider the Ultra to output a very usable amount of light. I'd guess it would be about 400 to maybe 500 on the total output scale and about 50 on the throw scale.


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## chimo (Dec 31, 2005)

cratz2 said:


> You're totally right... I'm an idiot!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now that sounds about right (not the idiot part  ). You can probably add around 20-25mA to the actual LED current without the DMM in the circuit for the highest numbers. For 50-70 mA the CS LEDs that I tested ran at about 3.65-3.75V. As far as the resistor goes, try experimenting at around 5 to 10 ohms. Cheers,

Paul


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## Nitroz (Dec 31, 2005)

cratz2 said:


> Dude! Those CS LEDs *ROCK!* I have three Quest Minimag clones (with tail clickies) all running 14500 cells with a dummy cell. One has a C0-bin CS LED, one has a B0-bin CS LED and one has a Peak Snow 29 LED. The C0 CS LED has gone through three straight charge cycles... Three in a row, non-stop. Plus two more partial (but close to complete) various around the house use cycles and it's still as bright as the one with like 2 minutes use on it.
> 
> Now, I used a B0-bin for the Solitaire mod so I don't know if they will last as long as the C0s, but I'll find out. From the reports of the Snow 29 LED failures in the Peak lights, I'm going to assume they aren't quite as robust as the Nichia CSs but the tint is WAY nicer and they do pull less current in the Quest hosts than the CSs do.
> 
> For any of you guys that haven't played with the CS LEDs... you really need to! They are amazing for a 5mm LED that costs $1 each. I bought a light that was modded with 6 of the CS LEDs and a DB400 and it was by far the brightest light I've ever seen with 5mm LEDs... brighter than my 18 LED array light with whatever LEDs it came with.



You don't have to talk me into the CS Nichias, I love them.


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## mcmc (Mar 10, 2006)

Hey cratz,

I tried the nichia CS (b0 i think) in the solitaire body, along w/ a fairly fresh-charged AAA from AW - and in about five seconds the led started outputting blue, and got hot to the touch. i yanked it out of there before the thing blew up or something =)

but i feel like there's too much juice running to the led, w/o a resistor? i wonder what's different b/t your setup and mine?


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## cratz2 (Mar 10, 2006)

Well, I have Nichia CS C0s, B0s and Peak Snow29 LEDs all in flashlights running direct on either a 10440 or 14500 LiON cell. The 14500 lights all have tail clickies which no doubt introduce a bit of resistance but this particular light has run just fine through several charges of the LiON cells.

I will admit that the two LEDs I've killed (not actually killed... just the flash/strobe on the LiON cell) were both CS B0 LEDs while the CS C0 LEDs seem to hold up a bit better. The first such light I ever built had a CS C0 in the minimag clone with a tail clickie and it's probably gone through 8 or 9 charge cycles.

I would expect some of the LEDs to hold up better than others, even from the same production run... just difference in the LEDs as they are manufactured. 

In you instance, I'd try a couple other LEDs. Or I'd try to get a CS C0 LED. Even with it's funky 'blue in the middle and greenish white corona/spillbeam', if you sand it down as I did on this mod, it just looks like slightly warm white as the sanding helps diffuse the difference in tint.

Hope this helps.


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## mcmc (Mar 10, 2006)

Cratz -

thanks again for the reply and advice! i'll try out a couple other led's in the batch, and also try to nail down exactly which bin it was...

maurice


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## cratz2 (Mar 10, 2006)

The B0 bin is consistantly bluish white while the C0 has the blue in the center and the greenish tint around the blue. I think the C0s are about 20 times more common than the B0s.


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## greenLED (Mar 11, 2006)

Yup, I like the B0's better than the C0's.


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## mcmc (Mar 11, 2006)

Yup, I checked the thread I bought it from, and they're C0's...

Man, I tried all 8 I had left, and they all turned bright angry blue after about 20 seconds =) bummer.


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## cratz2 (Mar 11, 2006)

Hrmm... I wonder if your charger is slightly over charging them or something. Mine come off the charger at 4.16V to 4.18V according to my POS DMM.

In addition to the tint, do they strobe after a few seconds? It might be worth just trying one for a few hours to see what happens. Both of mine that started doing the strobe thing, started within 1 minute of use. Those same LEDs are still just as bright as when new, as long as they are in something that doesn't push them quite so hard as the LiON does.

If this mod is really what you are looking for, you might try conditioning the LiON by running it on something for a few minutes first to take the edge off a bit.


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## LED Zeppelin (Mar 11, 2006)

Nice Mod Cratz2!

I think the LED lottery also has an effect on the voltage and current a particular emitter can handle.

My SMJLED Li-ion Solitaire started strong running direct without a resistor (around 150 mA), but after a couple months it has lost some punch.

I also did a DD Li-ion Lux (SX1K) mod in an Arc AAA, which also ran very strong for a couple months, then just started dying.

I've learned that the SMJLEDs are happier with at least a 5 ohm resistor (limiting current to around 100 mA), and the Luxes should be M bin Vf when running off the Li-ion cells.

I haven't tried the CS LEDs yet but it sounds like I should.

Let us know how your LED holds up being driven that hard.


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## mcmc (Mar 12, 2006)

Hrm, k - what's one dollar in the name of science =) i'll leave a CO Nichia in there for a few hours then, when I'm back in town.

I was able to get in touch w/ PhotonFanatic, and he said that a J bin (txoj) would be safest if i wanted to do a Lux III in the solitaire...


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## Kid9P (May 22, 2006)

*Mag SOLITAIRE*

Hey Guys,

I just got a Mag Solitaire and I would like to mod it with
an LED.

I read someone's MOD using a NICHIA CS LED.

Where do you guys get these LED's. Can anyone recommend
a reputable site or store ?? I'm aslo in the market for a 
K2 emitter(Future project). I'm not sure if the K2 is for sale as of yet. 


If anyone else modded a Solitaire, any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks Guys!

Ray 
PS- HENRYE, if your reading this....see what you started ??:lolsign:


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## carrot (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Mag SOLITAIRE*

I'd berate you for not using the search engine, but you're a New Yorker too, so I'll cut you some slack.  (Just kidding.)

_(Mod edit: took 1st link out as I merged the thread into this one!)_

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=102083

SMJLEDs are available directly from Lambda, and I don't know who here is currently selling Nichias. It looks like the $3 clearanced white LED keychain squeeze lights at Radioshack (similar in appearance to a rubbery, translucent Photonlight) use Nichia CS, and if you want just one, it'd be the easiest way.


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## Kid9P (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Mag SOLITAIRE*

Thanks Carrot!!

I have a squeezelight and didn't even think of it!

Thanks for the BRIGHT idea...no pun intended:rock: 


What part of NYC Carrot??

Ray


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## carrot (May 22, 2006)

*Re: Mag SOLITAIRE*

Queens, but I can frequently be found in the Lower East Side.


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## Sigman (May 22, 2006)

Just merged the last few posts here with a previous thread...carry on!


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## Kid9P (May 22, 2006)

I'm in Forest Hills Carrot. I grew up in the Lower East side...lol

12st Ave C

Small world buddy

Ray


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## cratz2 (Oct 31, 2006)

Well, 9 or 10 months later and the solitaire is still going strong on the same LED. I did two two other similar mods using the little $.99 Walmart aluminum 1xAAA light. I did one with a C0 and one with a B0. Tried the B0 first and it started flickering with about 10 seconds use. Turn it off, then back on... Seems as bright as it was initially, but starts flickering again. I just let it run and it completely died after maybe 2 minutes.

Swapped out the B0 for a C0 and the C0 is still going strong. I don't have much use on it as I greatly prefer the form factor of the Solitaire, but I have at least two charge cycles on the $.99 light.

The Solitaire... man. I'm really surprised it's still working, to be honest. I've probably got close to 20 charge cycles on it. Usually I only use it for 2 or 3 minutes at a time but a week or so back, we had a series of power interruptions and I just killed the main breaked just so the lights wouldn't keep coming on and going off. I got out my 3xRxxH light for living room light and the Solitaire to play with. I had it on for at least a half hour continuously.

I did pick up a lime green Solitaire to do something with... I might try building a duplicate to the original C0 build just to see if it's lost any of it's brightness. I'm sure it has, but it still works very impressively. It's a great 'in the mouth' light. We have two mini barns on our property that don't have power. Everytime I go out there to look for something specific, the modded Solitaire is my go to light. It's VERY useful as it gives plenty of brightness without being blinding... and the part I really love is the huge hotspot. Can't really even call it a hot spot... Just a uber wide beam. Sort of like an L4 on super low.


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