# Tail standing sucks



## nerdgineer (Apr 17, 2007)

Many users seem to think tail standing (TS) is an important or even essential feature for their lights. I find this puzzling.

I don’t mind TS where it doesn’t diminish other features, like in front twisty lights (Civictor V1, Fenix L0X...) where it doesn’t add any bulk or cost as these lights have solid square tails anyway. I MIGHT consider using ceiling bounce to light a room with a big Mag D type light - which already has a square tail - but I think I’d use my small lights (2xCR123 and under) mostly for handheld direct lighting and not for ceiling bounce. If I had to TS one, I’m sure I could find something to put under it.

What I don’t like is having to work with recessed tail switch buttons on small tail clicky lights, which is what TS requires. Recessing the tail button: 

1) makes the tail of the light bulkier because it now sticks out further and isn’t tapered like it would be if the button just stuck out, and

2) makes it harder for me to reach the button with my thumb using a normal (sort of ice pick) grip. Instead, I have to push down into the light from further behind instead of just squeezing the button from sideways like I would do with a ball point pen. Maybe I have a fat thumb, but I often end up having to hold the light with a contorted kind of “dart thrower”s grip just so I can get my index finger onto the switch, which is annoying.

I’m particularly surprised at those who want both a tactical (momentary) clicky switch AND TS on their lights. The whole point of a “tactical” light is to be able to flash it (with the thumb, I think) while holding it in a strong ergnomic grip. A recessed tail button really gets in the way of that for me. If it’s going to be tactical, then let the switch stick out and the heck with the TS. 

It’s why the EL XM-3, the Nuwai-2611X (= the Sharper Image 1W 1xCR123 light), and other protruding switch lights are easier to use than - say - the VB-16 which also has a forward clicky but is designed to TS. It’s not the VB-16 designer’s fault, he was just providing what we kept yelling for him to provide, but it wasn't for free.

I know that many boutique lights (McLuxes et al) offer those flared, three pronged tail switch shrouds which allow TS and provide “sideways” access to the tail switch through big scalloped cut outs. I think these acknowledge my view; but to my eye, they are also ugly and ruin the lines of these otherwise elegant light designs. Some have tail shrouds bigger than their bezels in front. They add huge bulk, not to mention the expenses for fancy machine work.

So that's my 2 cents. Is it just me or does anyone else think a trimmer light with no TS is better?


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## NutSAK (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I use my lights in a tail stand mode often, but it's only important in smaller EDC lights only to me. I often don't buy EDC lights that I really like for the simple fact that they don't tailstand.

I really couldn't care less if the light has a tactical clicky. Reverse clickies work just fine for me, and these days are allowing some nice UI options like those of the Fenix and Rexlight models. I think the new tactical switch on the Lumapower M1 is a great idea. It allow tail stading, but is also very easy to operate, whether you're using the momentary or the two stage reverse clicky switch.


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## cheapo (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

i agree. tailstanding lights suck. i like a protruding clicky SOOO much better.


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## Alin10123 (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I guess it depends on the light. I have an ML1 that did not come with the capability to tail stand. I then bought an oregon ring for it. It extended the walls in the tailcap about 1/8 of an inch. Probably not even that. It can now tail stand and the button doesn't get pushed on by accident so easily.


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## Chronos (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

On a hike in the hills or mountains tailstanding doensn't make much sense. Not too many flat, level surfaces to use! 

A couple of mornings ago the power was out so I used my S27 McGizmo light in tailstanding mode to shower and shave by. Bouncing the beam off of the ceiling provided a wonderful and diffuse beam that illuminated the bathoorm quite nicely, even on low. I may try it again, as I even seemed to shave a little closer than normal!


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## NAW (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I find tail-standing in small lights like Surefires, etc to not be neccesary. For me, small lights just aren't very good at lighting up whole rooms when shined up into the ceiling.

I find tail-standing more important with HID lights as they are much powerful & useful when lighting up a room.


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## parnass (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Lights which won't tailstand on their own can usually be propped up next to something else and shine on the ceiling.


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## Chronos (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



NAW said:


> I find tail-standing in small lights like Surefires, etc to not be neccesary. For me, small lights just aren't very good at lighting up whole rooms when shined up into the ceiling.
> 
> I find tail-standing more important with HID lights as they are much powerful & useful when lighting up a room.


 
LOL! NAW, take off your sunglasses man! You don't need them when you aren't running a 1400 lumen HID in your bathroom!!! Honestly, my 150-200 lumen lights do a fine job of illuminating a room when the power goes out. Hell, so do those expensive beeswax candles that sit in my dining room unused, even in blackouts.


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## ja10 (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

A tail stand is a lot like a bezel - it adds a little bit more length, but it helps protect sensitive parts of the light. 

On a really small light, I'd like to see the bezel as shallow as possible and no tailstand, but for a normal "walk around" light (the U2 comes to mind), I want a bezel that is a bit deeper and a tailstand to protect the light in case of a fall.

I can see issues though if it gets in the way of activation. For me it's fine though.


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## Patriot (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Yeah, I know what you mean. It is overated. The only time that I've ever actually done that out of necessity was when the power went out. In the past I've just stood a magLED on it tail and shinned it on the ceiling. In the event that I really needed an EDC light to tail stand, which wasn't already designed to, I'd wrap it in a sock ball, stand it in a shoe or figure out some other way of getting it to point up. I'm with you nerdgineer, I'd be using direct light if I wasn't in the convenience of my home.


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## Art Vandelay (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Life is too short for lights that can't tailstand. 

There is no reason why a light needs to have a completely recessed switch in order to tail stand. Think about it, how many tables or chairs have a solid base that goes all the way around the bottom. All lights need are two or three "legs" that are as wide as possible, but still leave enough room for big thumbs. Just look at the new tactical M1 or the Space Needle light.


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## Destroid Monster (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

A tail standing tailcap would usually prevent it from been switch on in my pocket.

That's my observation when I'm using Surefire EL1 clickies where I have a few 'hot pants' incident compared to nil with the Jetbeam MkIIx or other clickies with tail standing capability.


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## tussery (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



Destroid Monster said:


> A tail standing tailcap would usually prevent it from been switch on in my pocket.
> 
> That's my observation when I'm using Surefire EL1 clickies where I have a few 'hot pants' incident compared to nil with the Jetbeam MkIIx or other clickies with tail standing capability.


So remembering to lock out the tailcap would fix that.


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## SuperNinja (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

When you have extended blackouts, you can REALLY start to appreciate the tail standing function.

I'd MUCH rather have a light that can very easily stand at a perfect 90 degrees on it's own, than have to rig something each and every time to get a non-tailstanding light to stand up crooked.


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## nekomane (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I prefer the switch recessed not for tailstanding but to prevent accidental activation.
LOTC is a solution but its cumbersome (for me) one handed. YMMV.


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## jumpstat (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

For me the ability of tc to tailstand is not a necessity but if its incorporated in the design then its a +point, an added value. Most important for a tailcap is the accessibility of the thumb to operate the clicky at any angle relative to the barrel is important. Restricted access not so good. Won't do without a LOTC feature obviously for safety reasons.


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## Calina (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



SuperNinja said:


> When you have extended blackouts, you can REALLY start to appreciate the tail standing function.
> 
> I'd MUCH rather have a light that can very easily stand at a perfect 90 degrees on it's own, than have to rig something each and every time to get a non-tailstanding light to stand up crooked.


 
+1 and it prevents accidental activation (sometimes :naughty: ).


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## Hans (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



NAW said:


> I find tail-standing in small lights like Surefires, etc to not be neccesary. For me, small lights just aren't very good at lighting up whole rooms when shined up into the ceiling.



I'm completely different - I use tail standing more often with small lights than with big ones. I even didn't get an Arc AAA because it doesn't tail stand. I got a Peak Matterhorn instead, and I find tail standing very useful when moving around the house at night or when going to the bathroom in a hotel and so on.

Hans


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## LED_Thrift (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



Art Vandelay said:


> Life is too short for lights that can't tailstand...


 
+1 

The added usefulness outweighs the slight added difficulty in accessing the switch, IMHO.


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## KuoH (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Then there goes the tactical advantage of having a protruding switch. It seems you can't have it all no matter how you slice the pie. Like others have said, I prefer TS more to prevent accidental activation than actually using it to TS.

Perhaps it doesn't bother me because I don't have huge hands like a Norwegian fisherman and don't have any problems using something as small as a Fenix L1P or the Ultrafire equivalent. I would however, take either type of clicky over a twisty any day.

KuoH



tussery said:


> So remembering to lock out the tailcap would fix that.


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## LowBat (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I like the feature. For me it mostly comes in handy in campground bathrooms that have no lighting fixtures.


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## bridgman (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Hello ? There's this great new invention called a CUP ?? We live in HOUSES, which have KITCHENS and BATHROOMS, which in turn have CUPS ?

Put any flashlight in a cup and presto, it's a tail-stander.

If you go camping, pack a cup and a towel along with the spare batteries.


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## 2xTrinity (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



> Then there goes the tactical advantage of having a protruding switch. It seems you can't have it all no matter how you slice the pie. Like others have said, I prefer TS more to prevent accidental activation than actually using it to TS.


I think the way that the Lumapower tactical switch works is actually quite ideal -- two little "tabs" allow for tailstanding, but the switch isn't completely recessed, so it's still possible to activate easily with the thumbs. Accidental activation also isn't a big problem as it's push-on for momentary, twist-on to stay on.


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## Calina (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



bridgman said:


> Hello ? There's this great new invention called a CUP ?? We live in HOUSES, which have KITCHENS and BATHROOMS, which in turn have CUPS ?
> 
> Put any flashlight in a cup and presto, it's a tail-stander.
> 
> If you go camping, pack a cup and a towel along with the spare batteries.


 
I can always find my lights easily, even in the dark but a CUP!


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## ringzero (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



nerdgineer said:


> What I don’t like is having to work with recessed tail switch buttons on small tail clicky lights, which is what TS requires....So that's my 2 cents. Is it just me or does anyone else think a trimmer light with no TS is better?



Good point nerdgineer - I totally agree. Much prefer a shorter, sleeker, easy to use from any angle clicky light over a tailstanding clicky light.

There are a few lights available that have a threaded collar that screws onto the tail to allow for tailstanding, which can be removed for easier switch access.

Generally, I dislike anything that detracts from the sleekness of a light or adds to its length, including fancy protruding crenelated bezels and serrated 'strike' bezels. 


.


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## Long John (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I like my lights with and without tailstanding capabilitys.

+ tail standing:

-protection against accidental on
-protection for the switch-parts
-ceiling bounce 
-useable with a reflective beacon

- tail standing:

-perhaps a few grams more weight, depends on the construction of the tailcap
-in the case of a very thick thumb, perhaps not so comfortable to activate, but when the height of the rubber-button and end-part of the ring is nearly the same, I can't see the additional lenght and the uncomfortability to operate.

So for me, the tail-stand is a welcome feature at a well constructed light.

Best regards

____
Tom


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## mdocod (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

the obvious answer to this problem:

buy both.


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## jhoon (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

how about a threaded tail stand design, screw all the in for tactical use, screw out for tail stand.


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## TORCH_BOY (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

It doesn't really worry me if they don't tailstand as there is always a candlestick holder


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## SilverFox (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Hello Nerdengineer,

:devil:  It is obvious that you haven't spent much time wilderness camping...

A tail standing light is a must when in remote areas, especially during winter camping.

As night falls, everyone is busy setting up camp and fixing a meal. After the meal comes clean up and storing your food so the critters (big and small) don't get into your food.

By this time, if conditions allow, everyone is gathered around a camp fire and telling stories. This is pretty entertaining for the first couple of nights, but then we find that we need a little something extra to pass the night time hours.

I always bring a small plastic ball with me, and we have fun tossing it around. It floats, so we have fun with it while in the water too.

I have started a "new" sport - Flashlight Bowling.

We gather around, in the dark, and select a reasonably flat area to play in. We then tail stand our flashlights, turned on of course, then move some distance away and using the plastic ball, try to knock them down.

It's kind of like 9 pin bowling, but we tend to get a little carried away... 

The most difficult aspect of this game, after getting the lights to tail stand, is finding the ball after someone takes a turn. We have resorted to posting a "catcher" with a headlamp behind the "pins" to track down the ball and retrieve it.

As you can see, tail standing is a very important feature to have in a light...  :devil:

Tom


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## SuperNinja (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



bridgman said:


> Hello ? There's this great new invention called a CUP ?? We live in HOUSES, which have KITCHENS and BATHROOMS, which in turn have CUPS ?
> 
> Put any flashlight in a cup and presto, it's a tail-stander.
> 
> If you go camping, pack a cup and a towel along with the spare batteries.


Sure, if you like having the light stand at a 45 degree angle.


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## Strauss (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I think it's all a matter of personal preference. With that being said, you will find that most people like the feature of tail standing capability...myself included  

However, I can see where people are coming from arguing that tail standing isn't necessary....


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## PEU (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I prefer and I design flashlights that are tail-standable, IMHO adding no more than 5mm to the total lenght of a flashlight adds a lot of value.


Pablo


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## riffraff (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



SilverFox said:


> [...]I have started a "new" sport - Flashlight Bowling.[...]


 :huh: And the loser is the first incan owner who loses a filament? :laughing:


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## Danbo (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Personally, I like a tailstandable light. Life goes on without the feature, though.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Must be my flashaholic tendencies, but I prefer flashlight light to real light at night when I am alone, so I find myself tailstanding my lights, sometimes more than one. I suppose that if I were a LEO I would prefer tactical tailswitches that protrude. I do know that I prefer to enclose the tail switches of my Surefire light as they are very sensative, and I do not like to take the time to unlock the lock out feature, unless I am packing them away for a trip.

Bill


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## Sable (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Tail-standing is a very useful feature - but life goes on without it. My L1 and Kroma don't tailstand and I like them very much - my PD tailstands, and I like it a lot, too. My Mini-Mini HID will tailstand - carefully - but it's not what I bought it for.

There have been a couple times where I've wished that my L1 did tailstand, but I live easily without it. I like tailstanding lights and I find that feature to be exceptionally useful, though.


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## JJohn (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

All lights that I use have tailstand ability. I often set lights to bounce off the ceiling to illuminate a large area and don't want to look around to find something to balance the light in. I have also added rare-earth magnets to the tails of some of my small AAA lights to let them tailstand very securely and not necessarily on a horizontal surface. The thin disk magnet adds practically nothing to the weight or length and yet easily holds a small light.


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## cheapo (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



SilverFox said:


> Hello Nerdengineer,
> 
> :devil:  It is obvious that you haven't spent much time wilderness camping...
> 
> ...



you could always stand it up on the head of the light.


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## tenfour (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



jhoon said:


> how about a threaded tail stand design, screw all the in for tactical use, screw out for tail stand.



I like this idea - very practical.


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## NelsonFlashlites (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



mdocod said:


> the obvious answer to this problem:
> 
> buy both.



I couldn't agree more...


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## Art Vandelay (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

If you don't use the Rogers\Surefire grip, I don't see how an exposed tailcap is any more "tactical" than a tailcap that allows tail standing. I've also heard that a flashlight needs 65 lumens to have "tactical" brightness. Coincidentally, the company that put the 65 lumens minimum in their sales materials was selling lights that were 65 lumens.


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## savumaki (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

There's a long road behind me and I have yet to have the need of a tail stand light; you can always find a way to have the light shine if you want it to. However if a light can tailstand, so be it. (but that's not a point of sale for me)

Silverfox- Tom, you should come camping with me in northern ON.

I wonder what a 159-200 L light would look like in my bathroom at night (chronos)---------after my 'safe light' !!!!!


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## Lobo (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

+1 for tailstanding lights here. I don't see the reason not to have a tailstanding light, since IMHO it doesnt take away anything from the light (I havent had any issues with TS light being hard to click on) and it's not a feature that's hard to implement. 
But each to his own.


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## KuoH (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I would think it'd be rather hard to knock down invisible bowling pins, unless these flashlights all have tritium markers or something. 

KuoH



cheapo said:


> you could always stand it up on the head of the light.


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## luigi (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I prefer the light to be able to stand on its tail.
In a blackout or a bathroom without a light the little flashlight over a table or the floor provides great ambient illumination.

About the cup: Er... No thanks.

Luigi


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## nerdgineer (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



Art Vandelay said:


> If you don't use the Rogers\Surefire grip, I don't see how an exposed tailcap is any more "tactical" than a tailcap that allows tail standing...


I actually don't do tactical or practice handgun/flashlight techniques - which is I why I don't mind reverse clickies or twisties. I was just noticing that so many prefer forward clickies, which sort of implies tactical thinking to me, and also want TS which I thought got in the way of that.

Thinking back, the form factor I really liked for a small clicky light was the original Arc LS with the Kroll which was easy to use. Protecting the switch wasn't an issue for me as I used a pouch. I wish 1AA lights nowadays had a tail like the Arc LS 2AA body tail with protruding Kroll. Really, do any old timers who've used those Arcs not find them nicer than TS lights?

Too bad the Kroll switches themselves were so unreliable (for me anyway)...

But I'm happy either way, even though I appear to be in the minority. Thanks for the responses everyone, especially Silverfox's flashlight bowling.

If you had a lot of money, you could practice night time flashlight skeet.....:laughing:


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## 2xTrinity (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



> Must be my flashaholic tendencies, but I prefer flashlight light to real light at night when I am alone, so I find myself tailstanding my lights, sometimes more than one. I suppose that if I were a LEO I would prefer tactical tailswitches that protrude. I do know that I prefer to enclose the tail switches of my Surefire light as they are very sensative, and I do not like to take the time to unlock the lock out feature, unless I am packing them away for a trip.


I actually have found myself doing this as well, enough light to see my way around by, or maybe read with, without being so much light that it "wakes me up" if I'm trying to get tired and go to sleep.


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## Rob187 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I consider it a 'bonus' feature - beneficial but not essential. TS is handy if you are indoors and need to put your light down for a second but don't want to lose the general illumination of a room that you can get from a ceiling bounce.


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## Ty_Bower (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I have no patience for lights that won't tailstand. My Arc LSH wears a twisty, since the Kroll can't stand. Mag D lights will stand, and so will a C if you're careful. My HDS stands pretty well - I guess I got lucky there isn't any wobble. Nekomane's tail guards were essential additions to my Surefire U2 and E1e. The McTC tailcap stands very nicely on any E compatible body. My Nextorch RT3 stands perfectly well, and so does my Fenix L2D and my Lumapower M3.

The lights that don't stand tend to sit around in the drawer, until they can be sold or given away.


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## greenlight (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Only one of the many flashlights in my collection is TS: arcAA. I don't even use it because it is a collector's item.

There are other factors that are more important.--
Edit: I found a Lumaray fl6 and a streamlight propolymer4AA that tailstand, too.


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## cave dave (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I find myself using tailstand feature all the time. I have never had any problems activating a tailstand light so I don't see why a manufacturer wouldn't include it.

One idea is to make the switch shroud out of rubber, that would allow a tailstand and be flexible enough to deform when activating the light.


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## Lite_me (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I use the TS capability of my L0P CE every day. I use it to get ready to go beddy-by.


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## jblackwood (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



cave dave said:


> I find myself using tailstand feature all the time. I have never had any problems activating a tailstand light so I don't see why a manufacturer wouldn't include it.
> 
> One idea is to make the switch shroud out of rubber, that would allow a tailstand and be flexible enough to deform when activating the light.



I really like this idea, especially if the switch is the electronic type, like the HDS clickies! I tailstand my lights every night so as not to wake my wife up with the sound of the bathroom fan whenever I'm up and about after she's gone to bed. I HAVE let tailstanding influence me not to buy a light in the past. Now a days, it's more the tint coupled with tailstanding.


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## Fichtenelch (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

At work i also use my tailstanding mte-light a lot. if i need to work on the engine (aircraft), then i just put it below the place i need to work and have two free hands


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## Let It Bleed (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Posts from the crypt


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## Fichtenelch (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



Let It Bleed said:


> Posts from the crypt



Oh yeah...didn't even notice...:fail:


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## jamesmtl514 (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I borderline need my small lights to TS. I often go into small places to work on small equipment. I need to put the light down and have useable light.
My E1b with the scalloped tail works well for small places, my Ti EDC works well lighting up a whole room.


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## Swedpat (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I like the possibility to tailstand a light, though it mostly not will be a decisive factor when choosing a light.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



nerdgineer said:


> I MIGHT consider using ceiling bounce to light a room with a big Mag D type light - which already has a square tail - but I think I’d use my small lights (2xCR123 and under) mostly for handheld direct lighting and not for ceiling bounce.  If I had to TS one, I’m sure I could find something to put under it.


That's one more thing you've got to carry with you, unless you exclusively work on soft surfaces that you can push the tail of the light into.

You've seriously never lit up a dark room with a light smaller than a full-size Mag? I navigate around my house like that almost every night.



nerdgineer said:


> What I don’t like is having to work with recessed tail switch buttons on small tail clicky lights, which is what TS requires. Recessing the tail button...makes the tail of the light bulkier because it now sticks out further and isn’t tapered like it would be if the button just stuck out....


That's what pocket clips are for. Also, there's a huge amount to be said for attention to detail and real-world testing instead of slapping something together in CAD and sending it off to the sweatshop for manufacturing ASAP.



nerdgineer said:


> I’m particularly surprised at those who want both a tactical (momentary) clicky switch AND TS on their lights. The whole point of a “tactical” light is to be able to flash it (with the thumb, I think) while holding it in a strong ergnomic grip. A recessed tail button really gets in the way of that for me. If it’s going to be tactical, then let the switch stick out and the heck with the TS.


Have you tried a McGizmo yet?



nerdgineer said:


> I know that many boutique lights (McLuxes et al) offer those flared, three pronged tail switch shrouds which allow TS and provide “sideways” access to the tail switch through big scalloped cut outs. I think these acknowledge my view; but to my eye, they are also ugly and ruin the lines of these otherwise elegant light designs. Some have tail shrouds bigger than their bezels in front. They add huge bulk, not to mention the expenses for fancy machine work.














Personal opinions aside, the "huge bulk" you complain about is actually useful when holding the light in funny positions, which tends to happen more often than not when you're working on something that isn't already easily illuminated by ambient light. Try doing a cigar grip on a light without a tail ring and see how that works for you.


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## Flying Turtle (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I like tailstanding, especially with warm or neutral tints. Might not buy a light without it, though I don't actually use the feature that often.

Geoff


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## KiwiMark (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I use the tailstanding ability quite often - it is handy in the ensuite for light without the noisy fan running (which is what happens if I turn on the light switch). My Nitecore D10 is a fantastic light for many reasons, including being a great tail standing light - it also has a momentary mode that makes it the best light I own for jeans pocket carry (which is why it is my main EDC).

Not every light I own needs to be able to tailstand, but I appreciate having the option on some of my lights and those lights are often used because I want to tail stand them. I EDC a forward clicky light with a protruding tailcap and no lockout mode - but I only keep it in my jacket pocket, it isn't suitable for jeans pocket carry.

I can't see anything wrong with the design of my tail standers like:
Fenix L0D
Fenix L2D
Nitecore D10
Jetbeam Jet-IIIM
Liteflux LF2XT
Mag D cell lights
Elephant II
Zebralight H501
Zebralight H60w
and probably a few others.
I generally have more than one light handy and usually at least one of them will tail stand on any flat surface. It's a feature I've found useful on plenty of occasions, I don't even have to hunt for a cup or glass or any other object to use as a prop. Bouncing the light off the ceiling gives a much better general illumination to the room than pointing the light at whatever.


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## the.Mtn.Man (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Just because it's a feature you don't use doesn't mean it's overrated. I prefer lights that can tail-stand because it's a feature I use often.


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## PayBack (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I always go for tail stand if possible. I can easily light a room with my 123 Mini which is tiny, so I'm not sure where the need for maglite sized device comes from. Most modern LEDs put out a good amount of light and I love the fact most of my lights also being able to act as lanterns if needed.

In a power outage I can stand my lights on door surrounds and light the whole house for the evening if needed.

Underrated, not overrated.


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## Track Terror (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



Hans said:


> I'm completely different - I use tail standing more often with small lights than with big ones. I even didn't get an Arc AAA because it doesn't tail stand. I got a Peak Matterhorn instead, and I find tail standing very useful when moving around the house at night or when going to the bathroom in a hotel and so on.
> 
> Hans



I'm with you. With a big light tail standing is not important to me at all because I am always on the move when using my a larger lights. With smaller lights I am often times in a room or do not actually need to carry the light with me. When a power outage happens you can easily use a few of your small tail standing lights scattered about the house which makes it easy for everyone. 

I have a small tail stander that I use if I need to get up and go to the bathroom and I just put it on low and leave it sit on the nightstand shining at the ceiling. When your eyes are so used to pitch black a light even on low is plenty to walk out around the room into the bathroom without waking your spouse. If I need to go anywhere else in the house I can easily grab it and take it with me instead of blinding myself and waking up because of the bright house lights.


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## m3flies (Aug 17, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I would think tail standing is only overrated if you don't need, and /or, use it. Just as high lumens are overrated if you don't need it. Just as wide spill is overrated if you don't need it. The list could go on and on. What I find puzzling is why you would object to "many users" looking for this feature in a light they are buying.:thinking: Ooops, didn't notice OP was over three years old.


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## Let It Bleed (Aug 18, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing there are many more flashlights to choose from than there was 3 years ago. Consequently, it’s far more likely everyone can find the right combination of features and performance they want without compromise. For example, I chose an iTP A3 to put on a keychain and a Maratac AAA for stumbling around at night in my skivvies.

Although I do my part by buying more lights than I need, I'm amazed that there is enough demand to support the ever increasing number of flashlight manufacturers. But based on the continual introduction of new models, light makers must be doing a lot of business.


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## don.gwapo (Aug 18, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I do like tailstanding coz it's useful to me when i''m working. That's why I change my L2's tailcap with the tailcap that can tailstand.


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## Foxfyre (Aug 19, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

The ability to tailstand is a necessity for my lights.

They are often used to light up rooms at home when the power goes out
(too often, the area we live in is being heavily developed and the county infrastructure is hard pressed to keep up :shakehead ).

It's also great for lighting up the underside of a desk you're fixing the lock on or lighting the inside of a suspended ceiling repairing a classrooms heating system or lighting.

I also like using it on a dim setting to light a room just enough to keep up with the cats whereabouts when playing with them (they like chasing photo-luminous glow markers pulled around the room on a string) .


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## pounder (Aug 19, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I never really cared if my lights tailstood or not..that is until I used my solarforce masterpiece in a power outage..even on low at 10% it was more than enough light to fill the room with ceiling bounce and they say it will last 26 hours on 2 batteries..although I could have fabbed up a mount to make any light tailstand in about 2 minutes..still nice to have the ability built in..


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## kramer5150 (Aug 19, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Hands free lighting is always a plus in my book. Tailstanding feature is a form of that.

One of my peeves is lights that roll around/off the table when I set them down. Some kind of anti-roll feature (tail standing as an alternative) is a must have in my book. Nothings worse than setting a light down on the ground, only to have it roll across the garage or down the driveway when I am working on my car (example). Anyone ever have a D mag roll off a table onto the floor? WHAM!!!!

So I guess I see tail standing designs as a nice bonus. But its not really a deal breaker


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## RA40 (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

+1 kramer5150

Though I may not tail stand a light often, when I do, it is a nice characteristic to have.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I always try and carry one tail standing light with me, and usually have a short palm lanyard installed, which keeps the light from rolling around when laid down flat.

Bill


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## LEDPOWAR (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Tail standing is a pretty important IMO. It's one of the reasons I favoured the LD20 over the Quark AA^ as a gift recently. I'm not sure how well the Fenix white diffuser tips work (will know soon), but it's certainly great to have that extra functionality.


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## Dude Dudeson (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

To me the value of tailstanding depends on whether the light has an anti-roll feature or not.

A light that lacks both is a huge annoyance to me. At least for an EDC anyway.

For a household light I can forego both though. After all, if I really need to set the light down and illuminate something I can either improvise (which could be a lot more difficult while away from home), or I could whip out my EDC...


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## red02 (Aug 21, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

Headlamps put much more lux on whatever your trying to light up. You get more control over your light and your not wasting energy trying to light up something that your not looking at. I always manage to bump the light off the thing its standing on anyway and its not comfortable walking by the place where the light is standing.

Why waste battery power on running an LED at 100lm when a 20lm headlamp will do the same thing?

Its not useless, just very overrated for this reason. I think momentary on a handheld is much more important and promotes longer battery life which is more important when you need a artificial portable light source.


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## wyager (Aug 21, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*

I never, ever used tail standing in the year or so I owned my fenix. It's a useless feature IMO. Any place where you can tail stand, you could just as easily turn on a light switch 99% of the time. The other 1%, you should be using a headlamp.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 21, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



wyager said:


> I never, ever used tail standing in the year or so I owned my fenix. It's a useless feature IMO. Any place where you can tail stand, you could just as easily turn on a light switch 99% of the time. The other 1%, you should be using a headlamp.



What if I don't have a headlamp in my pocket, But I want my hands free?

What if there is a power cut, a power switch may not be much use?

What if there are several people in the room, there is a power cut, you are the only one that carries a light and you didn't bring enough lights for everyone and no headlamp either?

What if I want to see in my bathroom, but the power switch turns on BOTH the light and the annoying ceiling fan, it is 3am and I don't want to risk the fan noise waking someone up? I don't think a headlamp would be a good idea, I don't want to look at my face in the bathroom mirror and blind myself from a headlamp!

Sure, it's easy to think of situation where you just don't need to tail-stand a light, right this second I have no such need - but there are situations that I have been in where it is really handy. If I didn't have that feature I am sure I could make do somehow, but I have personally found the feature useful and have appreciated the light having the capability.

A light that can tail-stand = one more option that in some situations could be useful to have.


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## wyager (Aug 21, 2010)

I suppose there are situations where you might not have a headlamp... but it seems to me like for the average user it's about are useful as nitecore's tripod holes....


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## KiwiMark (Aug 21, 2010)

wyager said:


> I suppose there are situations where you might not have a headlamp...



Well, I don't EDC one . . . I do EDC a D10 which can tail-stand though. 

I'd be REALLY surprised if the average user ever used a flashlight mounted on a tripod, but wouldn't be particularly surprised if they thought to sit their flashlight on a table or bench pointing at the ceiling to light up a room.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 21, 2010)

wyager said:


> I suppose there are situations where you might not have a headlamp... but it seems to me like for the average user it's about are useful as nitecore's tripod holes....



Tripod threads! That would be great, particularly when I am doing lux measurements, at various distances. Good for taking pics too, and using those little tripods that you can attach to a car, or a table, etc. Not useless to me. LOL.

Bill


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## Icebreak (Aug 21, 2010)

I agree with Bill about tripods for task work. I miss my original McGizmo.

When camping I'll put my tp in a coffee can. If I have to make a late night run to do some bathroom business as a bear might do, I'll tail stand a light in the tp roll.

The draco around my neck works well for a squirt.


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## red02 (Aug 21, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



KiwiMark said:


> What if I don't have a headlamp in my pocket, But I want my hands free?
> 
> What if there is a power cut, a power switch may not be much use?
> 
> ...



Regarding the midnight bathroom run; you need pointing discipline... 

If you don't EDC a headlamp or a task light, you can always start. You can also mouth hold a light that you have. I usually use headlamps like handhelds and don't put them on if I'm looking for something. 

Besides what self respecting flashaholic will only have *1* light?:thinking:


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## KiwiMark (Aug 21, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



red02 said:


> Besides what self respecting flashaholic will only have *1* light?:thinking:



I EDC 3 - 1 can't tail-stand and the other 2 can (But the LF2XT is more awkward to t-s because it is attached to the keys).

I suppose I could add my H501 to my EDC, but I haven't really needed to go to a head lamp yet in every day usage. I always take a head lamp for camping though - usually no ceiling to bounce the light off.


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## Jash (Aug 21, 2010)

Tail standing is a non event for me. I don't need it, never wanted it, never will.

I'm either using my lights while walking or doing one handed things like feeding the dog, cat, chickens and making sure all the doors are locked and the gate is closed.

I've got headlamps and led lanterns if I need hands free or area light. 

The only time I ever use tailstanding is when I have a light on low mode for 'mood' lighting.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 22, 2010)

I do not really need it, but I am the kind of guy who will not turn on a light at night, preferring to use one of my flashlights, being a real flashaholic. Don't like bright at night and am not going to don a head lamp to go to the bathroom. Just prop up my tail standing what ever on the lowest light level and there I am. This hobby of mine, flashlights, is not about need, but about fun. I use my lights for so called "useful" purposes sometimes, but mostly for pure enjoyment. 

Bill


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## TKC (Aug 22, 2010)

*I personally like the fact that I CAN tail stand some of my lights.*


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## DM51 (Aug 22, 2010)

TKC said:


> *I personally like the fact that I CAN tail stand some of my lights.*


Then the alternative thread may be the one for you: Tail standing rocks


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## brightnorm (Aug 24, 2010)

Lumapower and Wolfeyes have come close to solving the issue of tailstanding vs forward/tactical clicky. Lumapower with the tailswitch on the DMini series 
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/theshorelinemarket_2118_414439370

and Wolf Eyes with the tailswitch on the Explorer, T3 and others 
http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u231/Glenn997/Flashlights/WE%20Explorer%20review/IMG_0595.jpg

As a "civilian" I find these almost as accessible as a fully protruding switch and less liable to accidental triggering. A LEO may feel differently.

Brightnorm


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## wyager (Aug 24, 2010)

brightnorm said:


> Lumapower and Wolfeyes have come close to solving the issue of tailstanding vs forward/tactical clicky. Lumapower with the tailswitch on the DMini series
> http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/theshorelinemarket_2118_414439370
> 
> and Wolf Eyes with the tailswitch on the Explorer, T3 and others
> ...


My LD20 was like that, I liked that a lot.


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## PayBack (Aug 24, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



red02 said:


> Regarding the midnight bathroom run; you need pointing discipline...
> 
> If you don't EDC a headlamp or a task light, you can always start. You can also mouth hold a light that you have. I usually use headlamps like handhelds and don't put them on if I'm looking for something.
> 
> Besides what self respecting flashaholic will only have *1* light?:thinking:



Why would anyone EDC an headlamp when their normal EDC can tail stand?

Holding a light in my mouth makes me gag (even small ones).

The other advange is, tail standing gives a more even light in a room... sometimes I even point my hand helds a the roof. Also great in "creepy" situations as there's less shadow or hiding places for the boogie man ... or intruder (though you target his eyes once's he's located).


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## red02 (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



PayBack said:


> Why would anyone EDC an headlamp when their normal EDC can tail stand?
> 
> ...


Why would anyone EDC a tailstanding light when you can't use a handheld as a headlamp and a headlamp can be used like a handheld?

99% of all headlamps can be laid flat to get ceiling bounce.

If you go for the best for hands free lighting a headlamp is king, while a tailstanding light is a jack of all some traits and master of none. Probably the most over hyped and unnecessary feature in any light. Much rather have a momentary switch.


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## Roger Sully (Aug 25, 2010)

*Re: Tail standing is overrated....*



PayBack said:


> Why would anyone EDC an headlamp when their normal EDC can tail stand?


 
I used to think that way and tailstood :thinking:? my lights under sinks, under the car and some other places I can't think of right now, to do whatever I needed to do. Never could understand the need for a headlamp. That is until i had to change the brake light on my truck at about 9PM one night. Sure i could have waited until morning but I'm kind of A.D.D. about stuff like that. I never would have been able to sleep knowing I had a light out..:shakehead
Anywhooo...between my jaw aching from holding the light between my teeh, my neck hurting from trying to hold it on my shoulder and keep it in place like a freakin telephone, I finally got the job done. 
I still haven't bought a headlamp yet but that Saint Minimus is definitely in my future!


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