# HDS ‘Epic’ Review – EDC Rotary and EDC Executive with new 2xAA and 18680(18650) tubes



## subwoofer (Sep 2, 2015)

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Author's Statement for Transparency and Disclosure
The test sample/s featured in this article have been provided for technical testing and review by the manufacturer. Test samples are retained by the reviewer following publication of the completed review for the purposes of long term testing and product comparisons.

All output figures and test results published in this review are the sole work of the reviewer, and are carried out independently and without bias. Test results are reported as found, with no embellishments or alteration. Though best endeavours are made to maintain the accuracy of test equipment, the accuracy of these results is not guaranteed and is subject to the test equipment functioning correctly.
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To many flashaholics HDS Systems needs no introduction, but to the less ‘specialised’ user HDS might not be a name you recognise. Though always known as HDS Systems the name ‘Ra Lights’ has also been used. Renowned for their quality, durability, potted electronics, customisation and programmability, yet simplicity of use, HDS system’s EDC Executive and EDC Rotary set a standard by which others are judged.








This review has been in the making for some time and takes me back to the SHOT Show Special Reviews for the very reason that the new 2xAA and 1x18680 (18650) battery tubes featured made their début at SHOT Show 2015.

(HDS Systems refer to the protected 18650 cell as an 18680. The 18680 is based on the 18650, but is longer than 65mm due to the protection circuit. Though not strictly correct, as the convention is to still refer to a protected 18650 cell simply as an ‘18650’, this is how I will be referring to them in the review).







So this Epic HDS review really is a SHOT Show Special






_'SHOT SHOW Specials' are a series of reviews inspired by, or as a consequence of, my visit to the SHOT SHOW 2015.
These may contain photos taken while travelling, and may be of a slightly different format._​

As there is so much detail to cover, there are going to be several more ‘detail’ sections in this review.


Taking a first look at what is in this review:

Both Rotary and Executive models are packaged in the HDS standard plastic clamshell blister pack.







On the back of each pack are the specifications of each custom built light (customers can choose the emitter/output, bezel, clips etc).







As well as the two lights, most of the HDS optional accessories were included (more on those later).







Each light comes with only a printed instruction book and quick reference card.







Side by side with the standard CR123 battery tube, the rotary is slightly longer than the Executive.







The Executive and Rotary Looking super sharp with a flawless finish.








Taking a more detailed look at the Executive:

Not to miss out on any details, first we look round the Executive. Deep rich anodising and an excellent finish leave you in no doubt this is a special light.






This Executive CR123 tube has the low profile switch boot fitted.







Quality machining is evident all over this light. Here you can also see the thin ‘filler’ o-ring at the base of the switch cap, which simply fills the groove where the pocket clip would be. As its function is purely aesthetic, it is removed if a pocket clip is fitted.







The side profile of the Executive shows the waisted battery tube, which allows for a more secure grip for a normal or cigar grip.







The reflector is lightly textured.







This Executive is fitted with a 325lm XP-L LED.







The central positive contact in the head consists of a spring with capping plate. The threads form the other main contact as the circular contact ring on the driver board is for the signal wire connection.







Looking into the battery tube there is a similar capped spring for the negative contact. Inset into the edge of the battery tube is the signal wire used to communicate the switch clicks to the driver board.







The signal wire protrudes slightly.







Square cut ACME threads are used.







The Executive next to a CR123 cell to get an idea of its size.







A CR123 loaded and ready to go.








Taking a more detailed look at the Rotary:

Switching over to the Rotary.







The Rotary’s tailcap has a stop-screw to provide a reference for the position of the rotating tailcap. In the position shown its output is the minimum.







As with the Executive, the Rotary was supplied with the low-profile button.







This Rotary has the XP-G2 LED.












Using the same textured reflector used in the Executive.







As far as contacts go, there is no difference between the Rotary and Executive.







The battery tube contact.







The signal wire for the Rotary.







This particular Rotary battery tube has anodising still on the top of the square threads. This makes no difference to function and only indicates a slightly different manufacturing process.







A CR123 loaded and ready to go.








Taking a more detailed look at the Tubes and Accessories:

The inspiration for this detailed review is actually the release of the long awaited alternative battery tubes for the HDS lights. In this case we have the Executive tubes with the standard CR123 tube fitted and next to that the 18650 and then 2xAA tubes. These are the pre-production tubes shown at SHOT Show 2015.







In this photo the tubes are shown next to the cells they hold.







With the Rotary shown for a constant scale reference, first the Executive is shown with its CR123 battery tube.







Then the 18650 tube.







And the 2xAA tube.







This photo is packed with accessories:

Black Stainless steel bezel with black nitride finish.
Universal pocket clip, black.
Tactical ring.
Raised button.
Decorative pocket clip.
Pocket clip, black.







Here the bezel has been swapped over on the Executive.







The black bezel certainly gives the Executive a different look.







For the Rotary you need to choose the universal pocket clip as you can’t remove the switch cap. The finish is as precise and flawless as the light it goes on to.







To fit a pocket clip to the Executive, first unscrew the switch cap. Then you need to remove the o-ring to avoid pinching and damaging it, and slide the clip into place.







Here the Executive is sporting the silver decorative pocket clip.







Profile view of the decorative pocket clip.







Next to the Executive is the black pocket clip and tactical ring.







The grip ring can be fitted on the switch cap. (You should also fit the raised button if using the grip ring – the reason this was not done during the photography stage of this review was due to time constraints)







Or alternatively towards to front, depending on how you want to improve the grip. (If fitted to the front the pocket clip should be removed)







This photo shows why, when fitting the tactical ring, you should not have the pocket clip fitted, as the grip ring interferes with the pocket clip function. (Remember you should also have the raised button fitted).







Due to its rotating tailcap, if you fit the pocket clip to the Rotary’s tailcap, the clip will rub on the head of the light as you adjust the output.

The universal clip is more versatile as you can fit it the other way round for a bezel-up hold. But, as shown, you still have rubbing while adjusting the light level, this time on the tailcap itself.







However if you bring the mount just over the bezel, you can position the clip in to just sit on the stop screw.







In this position there is no rubbing when adjusting the output.







The 18650 tube has had the black pocket clip fitted.







The Executive is shown with all its options of pocket clips, battery tubes and the black bezel.







As before but with the Rotary included for reference.








The beam

_Please be careful not to judge tint based on images you see on a computer screen. Unless properly calibrated, the screen itself will change the perceived tint.
The indoor beamshot is intended to give an idea of the beam shape/quality rather than tint. All beamshots are taken using daylight white balance. The woodwork (stairs and skirting) are painted Farrow & Ball "Off-White", and the walls are a light sandy colour called 'String' again by Farrow & Ball. I don't actually have a 'white wall' in the house to use for this, and the wife won't have one!_

Starting indoors with the Rotary. Its XP-G2 LED gives a coolish tint and strong hotspot.







The Executive’s XP-L LED has a more neutral tint and wider hotspot and spill (as you would expect of the larger emitter).







The characteristics seen indoors become even more obvious outdoors. The Rotary, despite lower output has better throw, but a narrower beam.







With its broader beam, neutral tint and higher output, the Executive is very capable and is a very pleasant Every Day Beam.








Modes and User Interface:

One of the reasons for the popularity of the HDS Executive and Rotary is that as well as being extremely usable on their default settings, there is the option to customise several features and output levels.

Both the Rotary and Executive have four preset output modes A, B, C and D. Due to the Rotary’s different output control, these are implemented in different ways.

We will get onto the customisation later, but for now, we are looking at default out-of-the-box settings.

The Executive turns onto Preset B. Various clicks or press-and-hold combinations give access to Presets A, C, and D (see ‘Basic Operation’ in the Programming Crib Sheet)

HDS lights have a total of 24 output levels available from the driver. These have been carefully chosen for optimum visually even level spacing.

From these 24 internal levels, the Executive’s default levels for each Preset are as follows.


*________________________________**________________________________**HDS Systems Executive Output**Default Level (1-24 output levels)**________________________________**________________________________*Preset A24Preset B16Preset C20Preset D8

Due to the Rotary having access to all output levels via its rotary control, these Presets are used differently.

For the Rotary:
Preset A is set to the Maximum level 24
Preset B is the Rotary level
Preset C is a Beacon
Preset D is a Fast Strobe


*Output customisation and feature selection:*

Both the Executive and Rotary have customisation options. There are five important concepts to understand so you can get to grips with programming these lights.

1. Restoring Factory Settings – I start with this one as you should not be afraid of having a go at programming the light. At any time you can easily restore the light’s settings to default.

2. Reset – This tells the light something is changing. On a basic level it can be that the cell or cell type is being changed and also acts as a starting point for programming or restoring factory settings. The Reset itself does not change any customisations or settings.

3. Enable Customisation – does what it says. By default, customisation is disabled, so to make any changes you need to enable customisation. When disabled, the commands to enter the Options Menu or Change Brightness Levels won’t work.

4. Enter Option Menu – Gives access to change various features such as Turn-on preset, Automatic off, Locator flash, Pseudo Momentary, Burst and Customisation.

5. Customising Brightness Presets – allows you to adjust the level used for any of the presets.

Though the instructions provided by HDS are comprehensive, I found the small booklet and reference card difficult to work with, so inspired another ‘Programming Crib Sheet’ I produced, after testing all programming options, I put together one of these for the HDS.

Rather than include all the detail in this crib sheet in the review, you can access the crib sheet below.

Click on the thumbnail to open the crib sheet in a new tab/window and then use the magnifier to zoom in. You can save the image and print it as I find it easier on a piece of A4 paper.




Please also remember to visit HDS Systems website as it contains a wealth of detailed information about the lights and design aspects.

When you disable Turn On Preset, initially it can be slightly disorienting if you are used to always getting Preset B (the default) when turning it on. However, although the light comes on in the Last-Used-Preset, the other presets are still accessible in the same way as described in the ‘Basic Operation’.



Batteries and output:

Both the Rotary and Executive were designed as 1xCR123/RCR123 lights, with an input voltage range of 1.8V to 4.5V.

With the introduction of the new battery tubes the cell choices are now 1xCR123, 1xRCR123, 1x18650 and 2xAA. (NOTE: do NOT use 2xCR123 or 2xRCR123, or 2x14500 in the 18650 and 2xAA battery tubes as you will destroy to power supply)

When changing cell types from Li-ion to a lower voltage chemistry, CR123 or 2xAA, it is important to carry out a Reset so the circuit correctly identifies the cell type being used.

_To measure actual output, I built an integrating sphere. See here for more detail. The sensor registers visible light only (so Infra-Red and Ultra-Violet will not be measured)._

*Please note, all quoted lumen figures are from a DIY integrating sphere, and according to ANSI standards. Although every effort is made to give as accurate a result as possible, they should be taken as an estimate only. The results can be used to compare outputs in this review and others I have published.*

In the following table there is information on how the levels are spaced in reference to the Maximum level. So you have Maximum minus ‘x’ levels until the output dropped below the threshold of my current integrating sphere.


*________________________________**________________________________**________________________________**HDS Systems Rotary**I.S. measured ANSI output Lumens**PWM frequency or Strobe frequency (Hz)**________________________________**________________________________**________________________________*Max (CR123)2820Max -1 level (CR123)1830Max -2 levels (CR123)1220Max -3 levels (CR123)790Max -4 levels (CR123)550Max -5 levels (CR123)330Max -6 levels (CR123)220Max -7 levels (CR123)140Max -8 levels (CR123)90Max -9 levels (CR123)50Max -10 levels (CR123)30Max -11 levels (CR123)20Max -12 levels (CR123)below threshold0Max (RCR123)2790StrobeNot measured17.2BeaconNot measured1

Peak Beam intensity measured 4800lx @1m giving a beam range of 139m.

Parasitic drain measured at 8uA using CR123, and at this drain it would take 19.96 years to completely drain the cell.


For the EDC Executive we have the different battery choices to compare.


*________________________________**________________________________**________________________________**HDS Systems Executive**I.S. measured ANSI output Lumens**PWM frequency or Strobe frequency (Hz)**________________________________**________________________________**________________________________*Preset A (CR123)3700Preset B (CR123)100Preset C (CR123)630Preset D (CR123)Below Threshold0Preset A (RCR123)3560Preset B (RCR123)90Preset C (RCR123)600Preset D (RCR123)Below Threshold0Preset A (2xAA)3560Preset B (2xAA)100Preset C (2xAA)630Preset D (2xAA)Below Threshold0Preset A (18650)3610Preset B (18650)100Preset C (18650)620Preset D (18650)Below Threshold0

* _Beacon and Strobe output measurements are only estimates as the brief flashes make it difficult to capture the actual output value._

Peak Beam intensity measured 3200lx @1m giving a beam range of 113m.

Parasitic drain measured at 4uA using CR123, and at this drain it would take 39.93 years to completely drain the cell.


For the runtime traces, the default ‘burst’ mode was disabled to maintain maximum output.

At the time of the review the Rotary 18650 and 2xAA battery tubes were not available, so only CR123 and RCR123 traces were measured.

Using RCR123 does provide a longer run at maximum output, but once the cell is depleted, the output drops quickly through the levels. On CR123 total runtime is much longer but with more time spent on lower levels.







For the Executive, the relative output of CR123 and RCR123 are much like they are with the Rotary. The use of 2xAA gives approximately twice the runtime of RCR123, with considerable more runtime at maximum output, but shorter overall runtime compared to CR123.

It is with 18650 that runtime is significantly boosted for maximum output and total runtime. The graph speaks for itself.







Showing one of its lower modes, the Executive’s XP-L LED.







Similarly the Rotary on a very low level








Troubleshooting

_This is a new section I am adding to mention any minor niggles I came across during testing, in case the information helps anyone else._

No issues were encountered during testing.

_As per the description of this section, this information is provided in case anyone else finds a similar 'issue' that might be fixed in the same way._



The HDS EDC Executive and EDC Rotary in use

Though not the most compact lights these really do set the standard for EDC thanks to their superb functionality.

In their default configurations, both lights are optimised for most users already. It took me a lot of time to decide on some customisations and I still might revert them to factory defaults. So, even though you have the ability to customise HDS lights, I would not take this as a reason to customise them, or think it is not worth buying as you don’t want to be bothered customising them. Out of the box these are highly usable and EDC focussed.

What I have settled on currently are the following custom settings:

EDC Rotary – Locator Flash enabled, Burst Disabled, Pseudo Momentary Enabled

EDC Executive – Turn On Preset enabled and set to Preset D, Locator Flash enabled, Burst Disabled, Pseudo Momentary Enabled

Both are left with customisation enabled to allow me to more easily tweak these settings.

The two types of button have me slightly torn between them. The standard low profile button is well protected, minimising the risk of accidental switch on. However this does mean it can become a bit straining on the thumb when carrying out multiple clicks and customisations. The raised button is much more accessible and makes it easier to quickly access multiple click modes and generally operate the light. Of course the raised button does increase the risk of accidental activation. For a EDC light you might prefer the safety of the low profile button, but for its ease of use I prefer the raised button.

Having changed the Executive to turn on to Preset D (which is set to a very low level), accidental activation would not worry me too much.

The Rotary is so simple to use and set the output as you want it, so I’ll leave this aside for the moment and concentrate more on the Executive.

I’d like to stress how well set up I found the Executive’s default configuration. Take the output levels chosen for each preset. By default it turns on to B. Preset B provides 10 lumens and is a great level for general close range tasks. If you need a bit more light, but not too much, double click to get Preset C at 63lm. In any Presets B, C or D, simply press and hold to get Preset A at maximum output. For my own EDC purposes, I rarely need maximum.

As a low output mode, Preset D has been set to level 8 out of 24. Having also tried D set to level 1 (the lowest) I found myself general preferring the default of level 8. The reason being that with non-dark-adapted eyes, this is still usable in darkness, and with fully dark-adapted vision, though a little brighter than ideal, it is not too bright to use, and does not induce any squinting or avoidance.

For my own purposes, I decided I wanted the Executive to come onto Preset D (set to the default level 8) as I prefer to start low and work my way up.

My reasons for the other (previously listed) customisations I have made are that, if I want maximum, I want it to stay maximum (so ‘burst’ is disabled). I like the ability to set a locator flash on lights I have with me when travelling in case I’m staying in an unfamiliar room. For standard switches, forward-clickies are my favourite as I like to be able to use momentary output, hence the pseudo-momentary being enabled.


You can now choose different sizes of light thanks to the battery tube options. Of course the most compact and EDC-able are the original CR123 tubes, but the extra size you get with the 18650 and 2xAA tubes make the handling better (in my opinion).

2xAA has long been one of my favourite configurations. This is because the tube length and diameter just make for a very comfortable grip. At this time, the 2xAA has become my favoured battery tube for general use, but should the total runtime be an important factor, I would switch to the 18650 tube. There is no ‘best’ choice in battery tube, only the one that best fits your needs for size/weight, grip and runtime requirements.

Also don’t forget the full tactical mode available. Rapidly clicking the button 6 times from off sets the Executive or Rotary into a mode where the switch is permanently momentary (no latching On at all) and the output is set to maximum. Once this mode is activated,bear in mind you need to carry out a Reset to return the light to normal operation.

Overall quality is to a very high standard and all of my expectations were met or exceeded. Manufacturing tolerances make the fit of all parts just right, precise and snug but not too tight which can make fitting accessories difficult.



*Review Summary*


*_______________________________________________**_______________________________________________**Things I like**What doesn't work so well for me**_______________________________________________**_______________________________________________*High qualityNot the most compact CR123 EDC lightDefault settings are virtually ‘ideal’ for EDCNot the brightest EDC lightOutput/function can be customisedQuality comes with a higher price tagBattery tubes for CR123, 18650 and 2xAAProgramming may appear too complex for some usersDurable, with fully potted electronics







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## subwoofer (Sep 2, 2015)

Reserved for updates...

Just wanted to add a comment that in the runtime graphs where a trace looks like it is dripping down, this is where the output logging has captured low battery warning flashes. Only a some flashes get captured when the coincide with a measurement.

UPDATE - 16 Nov 2015: For many this won't be a surprise, but I have just found the HDS 'Easter Egg' undocumented feature 'candle mode'. Candle mode is a flickering candlelight simulation.

For the current interface, as documented in this review, to access candle mode from OFF click 9 times.


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## BrightLignt (Sep 2, 2015)

Do they make a version that was built in China for $200 less?


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## RI Chevy (Sep 2, 2015)

WOW! Absolutely one of the most thorough reviews I've ever read! Thank you for taking your time and using your resources to do this for all of us!


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## Imon (Sep 2, 2015)

Do new HDS lights have a high polish bezel now? 

Also, great review.


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## yoyoman (Sep 2, 2015)

Nice review. I especially enjoyed the runtime charts. The runtime on the 18650 2600 mAh is impressive. I assume that it didn't get too hot as the emitter is not over driven.

Yes, I've read the new ones come with a high polish bezel.

Thank you for taking the time to do this.


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## ganymede (Sep 2, 2015)

Great review subwoofer! Is it just me or the emitters look off center in all models?


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## scout24 (Sep 2, 2015)

No xoubt, epic review! Love the macro pics, especially the up-close of the knurling.


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## akhyar (Sep 2, 2015)

As always, excellent review @Subwoofer.
Thanks for taking the time for the thorough review. [emoji106]


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## subwoofer (Sep 2, 2015)

RI Chevy said:


> WOW! Absolutely one of the most thorough reviews I've ever read! Thank you for taking your time and using your resources to do this for all of us!



Thanks for saying so  (I appreciate all comments and read all posts even if I don't reply to every one.)



yoyoman said:


> Nice review. I especially enjoyed the runtime charts. The runtime on the 18650 2600 mAh is impressive. I assume that it didn't get too hot as the emitter is not over driven.



As I disabled Burst mode, the head of the lights did warm up a bit, but not a lot. As I need to ensure safety during my testing, I always run cooling fans (unless stated otherwise) to keep temperatures down. If you hand hold a light, you know if it is getting too hot and can take action if needed, but the run time traces have the light in a clamp.

Of course the HDS lights are safe to run constantly on maximum as they have temperature control, but I always prefer to keep things cool if I can.



ganymede said:


> Great review subwoofer! Is it just me or the emitters look off center in all models?



In both samples, the emitters are off-centre. However, in my experience, emitter centring is not as crucial as many people seem to think. The beams are both well formed as seen in the beam shots. With highly focussed reflectors used in specialised throwers, the emitter centring is more important, but on most general purpose lights it does not matter.


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## ganymede (Sep 2, 2015)

subwoofer said:


> In both samples, the emitters are off-centre. However, in my experience, emitter centring is not as crucial as many people seem to think. The beams are both well formed as seen in the beam shots. With highly focussed reflectors used in specialised throwers, the emitter centring is more important, but on most general purpose lights it does not matter.



The emitter on my HDS Clicky Nichia 219B is off center as well, not a biggy but could be better.


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## recDNA (Sep 2, 2015)

subwoofer said:


> Thanks for saying so  (I appreciate all comments and read all posts even if I don't reply to every one.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...







Great review! 


You commented on great fit and finish. Did the color of the head match color of the ano on your body tube? 



Could you comment on how temperature control works with burst mode off? I somehow missed the 411 on temperature control. 


Thanks for the tip on doing a reset before changing to a new battery type. I usually use primaries but tried RCR123 and neglected to do a reset. 


I like the new shiny bezel rings. I hope my next HDS comes with one.

One last question. I like how you lined up the universal clip end with rotary head screw but does that interfere with sliding it in your pocket? In other words does the screw snag?


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## kj2 (Sep 2, 2015)

Great review! 
Have an EDC Rotary since two/three weeks, and it has become one of my favorite lights


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## pjandyho (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks for the taking the time and effort to do this review. Always something that I wanted to do but never bothered getting down to it. Great work subwoofer! Always love my HDS!


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## subwoofer (Sep 2, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Great review!
> 
> 
> You commented on great fit and finish. Did the color of the head match color of the ano on your body tube?
> ...



On the CR123 tubes, yes the anodising was the same colour. The 18650 and 2xAA tubes there was a very slight difference. This might be due to these being the pre-production tubes and not final production versions.


Quoting directly from the HDS instruction book:

"5. Thermal Limits

Your flashlight monitors the LED temperature and the external flashlight temperature to protect the LED and to prevent the exterior from becoming too hot to safely handle. If either temperature nears the safety limits, your flashlight will automatically step down to a lower power setting to control the temperature. This is typically only necessary on the maximum continuous level when Burst is disabled. Your flashlight will automatically reset the thermal limit when it is turned off and back on again."


And for the clip question, as the stop screw is smooth and burr free, it did not interfere with clipping it to a pocket when I tired. I tend to slightly lift pocket clips when clipping them into place without even thinking about it.


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## recDNA (Sep 2, 2015)

Thank you.


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## DAN92 (Sep 2, 2015)

Thanks for the review.:thumbsup:


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## Phlogiston (Sep 2, 2015)

Thank you, Subwoofer! I have too many things in the budget queue to justify an HDS light right now, lovely as they are, but I still enjoyed reading your review and learning about HDS' current state of the art. 

For now, I continue to covet that 2xAA Rotary


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## recDNA (Sep 2, 2015)

Are alkalines OK in AA 325 rotary?


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## sledhead (Sep 2, 2015)

Fantastic review! I have all 3 body tubes......after using them now for awhile I believe the 18650 is the most ergonomic. For me anyways!


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## subwoofer (Sep 3, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Are alkalines OK in AA 325 rotary?



Yes, but don't expect maximum output for all that long. It will drop several levels quite early on. Altogether the runtime will probably be longer than on NiMh, but only due to a lacklustre performance.


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## recDNA (Sep 3, 2015)

Ah, so not constant current regulation?


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## subwoofer (Sep 3, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Ah, so not constant current regulation?



The Executive and Rotary are regulated at each level, until there is not enough power to maintain that level.

It is simply that Alklines are :fail: at delivering high power. They run well enough at low current draw. The light will drop a level or two relatively early on, like you can see in the runtime graphs, and each level will be maintained until the cells can't maintain it.

Alkalines fade away, whereas NiMh burn out (well not literally)! As Kurgan said in Higlander "I have something to say. It is better to burn out than to fade away!"


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## recDNA (Sep 3, 2015)

Lithium primary AA better?


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## subwoofer (Sep 3, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Lithium primary AA better?




If you want to use primary AAs, then yes, Lithium AAs are by far the best choice. Cost more, but perform so much better.


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## pjandyho (Sep 3, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Lithium primary AA better?


I think it's hard to beat a couple of NiMH, especially Eneloop Pro. I most likely won't get the AA compartment, but if I do get one it will definitely eat only Eneloop Pro for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.


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## Lithium466 (Sep 3, 2015)

Thank you for the review, I was eager to read it since you said you were working on it 
Really epic review!


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## recDNA (Sep 3, 2015)

pjandyho said:


> I think it's hard to beat a couple of NiMH, especially Eneloop Pro. I most likely won't get the AA compartment, but if I do get one it will definitely eat only Eneloop Pro for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.


A real quality NiMH charger is too expensive.


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## subwoofer (Sep 3, 2015)

recDNA said:


> A real quality NiMH charger is too expensive.




If you can afford to buy an HDS, can't you afford to buy a good NiMh charger?

I use the Technoline BC1000 (also known as the LaCrosse BC1000) for all my AA/AAA Eneloop charging/monitoring.


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## pjandyho (Sep 3, 2015)

recDNA said:


> A real quality NiMH charger is too expensive.


Definitely cheaper in the long run compared to running Lithium AA. At least a cheap charger is better than nothing. Trust me, you don't really need very good charger for this. NiMH has been around for decades and most chargers available in the market are pretty capable to do a good charge. Better ones allow you to condition your batteries as well as do soft charging so it doesn't heat up the batteries too fast and too hot. Personally I use a Maha charger for charging 8 pieces in a go. Buy the cheap ones first and maybe progress to better ones later? Not sure if this will make more sense for you?


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## recDNA (Sep 3, 2015)

I have one but it gets hot. I do not like that so no NiMH for me. I already have a bunch of li AA


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## subwoofer (Sep 13, 2015)

Has anyone tried out the programming crib sheet yet? I'm curious for any feedback on if it is any use to anyone else.


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## snowlover91 (Sep 13, 2015)

recDNA said:


> I have one but it gets hot. I do not like that so no NiMH for me. I already have a bunch of li AA



A Lacrosse or Maha charger can be had for around $40-50 for a good quality one. Mine was the BC-700 model for about $35 and works great, doesn't get hot at all and let's you select what rate to charge the batteries at. Worth a look IMO.


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## recDNA (Sep 14, 2015)

I couldn't find any Maha for $35 or I would have purchased it. Prices I saw were very high so I gave up.


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## nfetterly (Sep 14, 2015)

Great review, enjoyable read. I had a HDS light a few years ago and it wasn't my preference & I don't know why (might be size / form factor) - but it was / is a quality product for sure.


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## recDNA (Sep 14, 2015)

They've always been underdriven imo but I'm a Philistine


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## snowlover91 (Sep 15, 2015)

recDNA said:


> I couldn't find any Maha for $35 or I would have purchased it. Prices I saw were very high so I gave up.



May want to give this one a try for $36 this is what I use, no heat batteries stay cool also and let's you select desired charging current. It also offers refresh cycles and capacity test cycles.


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## recDNA (Sep 15, 2015)

snowlover91 said:


> May want to give this one a try for $36 this is what I use, no heat batteries stay cool also and let's you select desired charging current. It also offers refresh cycles and capacity test cycles.


I'll see what I can find. Thanks.


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## snowlover91 (Sep 17, 2015)

Sorry forgot to provide the link. 

BC-700 Charger


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## recDNA (Sep 18, 2015)

snowlover91 said:


> Sorry forgot to provide the link.
> 
> BC-700 Charger


Some of the reviews say it catches fire. 8% of the Maha reviews say it melts and smokes. Thanks for the info but I cannot take a 5% chance I will burn my house down.

One reviewer said "Amazon Verified Purchase
Update 7/10/14

The heat problem (along with the other issues mentioned below) have made this charger unacceptable for use. The heat is so intense that it is literally frying the batteries and I will no longer use it. A total waste of money and time.

I am perplexed by the many the many positive reviews on this charger. These reviews seem incredible to me - having over a year using it. I have decided to throw it out.


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## RI Chevy (Sep 18, 2015)

Just for the record, I haven't had any issues or problems with mine.


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## recDNA (Sep 19, 2015)

RI Chevy said:


> Just for the record, I haven't had any issues or problems with mine.


Sounds like poor quality control but 8% failure is too high


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## RI Chevy (Sep 19, 2015)

True.


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## recDNA (Sep 19, 2015)

RI Chevy said:


> True.


Especially compared to HDS! And now I'm back on topic!


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## snowlover91 (Sep 20, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Some of the reviews say it catches fire. 8% of the Maha reviews say it melts and smokes. Thanks for the info but I cannot take a 5% chance I will burn my house down.
> 
> One reviewer said "Amazon Verified Purchase
> Update 7/10/14
> ...



No issues with mine at all, and some of those 1 star reviews are from ones where the charger stopped working. I've had mine 3 years now and it still works great with no problems. Many times reviews like that are either from competitors or someone who used it to charge the wrong battery chemistry. Haven't seen issues like this here on CPF so shouldn't be a problem. If there was I would think there would be a thread on this somewhere.


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## AMD64Blondie (Oct 1, 2015)

Will Henry be selling the 18650 and 2 AA battery tubes separately?


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## Lithium466 (Oct 2, 2015)

He is.
I'm not sure I can put a direct link but you can buy them on the hds systems website (click to view full catalogue)


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## subwoofer (Oct 2, 2015)

AMD64Blondie said:


> Will Henry be selling the 18650 and 2 AA battery tubes separately?




Absolutely.

You have two options for the new tubes. You can buy a new light and using the custom option specify the CR123, 18650 or 2xAA battery tube. Alternatively you can buy the new tubes as a separate item and simply substitute your existing CR123 tube with the new one.


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## wacbzz (Oct 31, 2015)

I love the time, effort, and sincerity that you put forth in this review. Great job. Given myself and what I've written elsewhere about HDS lights, I would really love to read a subjective review from you about these two. I find that to be so often missing in great reviews; while the objective parts of the review are "required" and describe the object in question, I want to know the real likes and dislikes about the given subject. This is what makes me want to purchase or pass on a given light. For another time I suppose...

My question about your review comes concerning the two photos below...



subwoofer said:


> The characteristics seen indoors become even more obvious outdoors. The Rotary, despite lower output has better throw, but a narrower beam.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Given that the HDS lights in question are _in front of the camera_, how is it that the object physically holding the lights came to be illuminated? The reason that I ask is because if the illumination occurs because the exposure is long enough to illuminate said holder, then perhaps the actual beam shot is somewhat...skewed? 

Again, great review, and I look forward to the answer. :twothumbs


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## subwoofer (Nov 1, 2015)

wacbzz said:


> I love the time, effort, and sincerity that you put forth in this review. Great job. Given myself and what I've written elsewhere about HDS lights, I would really love to read a subjective review from you about these two. I find that to be so often missing in great reviews; while the objective parts of the review are "required" and describe the object in question, I want to know the real likes and dislikes about the given subject. This is what makes me want to purchase or pass on a given light. For another time I suppose...
> 
> My question about your review comes concerning the two photos below...
> 
> ...



Excellent question and observation, let me explain:

When producing the photos for a review I work in batches. These lights were in a batch of 14 lights. Each light has a set of 6+ photos taken indoors, and then the same again outdoors. It started to become a real problem distinguishing the beamshots for each light, so I decided to keep my floody headlight on a low setting during the exposures and allow it to illuminate the clamp enough to be able to identify the light. I can assure you that if the test subject were removed along with the clamp and the same exposure was taken again you would only see ambient light and nothing from the headlamp.

In the review, the final section is a subjective description of my experience with the light, and the Pros/Cons table, which I specifically call 'What I like / What doesn't work so well' is also subjective, as one man's Pro is another Man's con.


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## wacbzz (Nov 1, 2015)

subwoofer said:


> Excellent question and observation, let me explain:
> 
> When producing the photos for a review I work in batches. These lights were in a batch of 14 lights. Each light has a set of 6+ photos taken indoors, and then the same again outdoors. It started to become a real problem distinguishing the beamshots for each light, so I decided to keep my floody headlight on a low setting during the exposures and allow it to illuminate the clamp enough to be able to identify the light. I can assure you that if the test subject were removed along with the clamp and the same exposure was taken again you would only see ambient light and nothing from the headlamp.



Thanks for the explanation. Clearly, nefarious forces were not at work! 



subwoofer said:


> In the review, the final section is a subjective description of my experience with the light, and the Pros/Cons table, which I specifically call 'What I like / What doesn't work so well' is also subjective, as one man's Pro is another Man's con.



Having gone back this morning and re-read the entire review, I've found more "personal" observations about the lights than I originally saw in my first read (ie, the "gloss-over"). Thanks for the perhaps unintended request to take another look at the whole review. 

One thing you wrote about was your like of the 2AA tube...perhaps a photo or two of the different tubes (18650 and 2AA) in your hand would be extremely beneficial. A photo of the various tubes next to each other doesn't really provide an "in hand" prospective. 

Again, great job.


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## subwoofer (Nov 16, 2015)

UPDATE - 16 Nov 2015: For many this won't be a surprise, but I have just found the HDS 'Easter Egg' undocumented feature 'candle mode'. Candle mode is a flickering candlelight simulation.

For the current interface, as documented in this review, to access candle mode from OFF click 9 times.


Post #2 updated:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...18650)-tubes&p=4727192&viewfull=1#post4727192


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## RI Chevy (Nov 16, 2015)

Cool!


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## jimmy1970 (Nov 27, 2015)

Very nice review! I'm particularly impressed with the high quality photos you've created - I've tried taking HQ photos of lights in the past but I've never achieved your level of clarity.

All my old Ra / HDS lights including my current EDC Clicky 200 have centred emitters. Is this no longer the case with the new lights or have I just been super lucky with all the HDS lights I've had in the past?

Although I do know it makes little difference to the quality of beam.


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## newbie66 (Nov 27, 2015)

Very nice review! If I were to get one it would probably be the clicky for better waterproofing. If a rotary is submerged and its tailcap is rotated (either by accident or not), water may seep into the light.


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## kj2 (Nov 27, 2015)

jimmy1970 said:


> All my old Ra / HDS lights including my current EDC Clicky 200 have centred emitters. Is this no longer the case with the new lights or have I just been super lucky with all the HDS lights I've had in the past?
> 
> Although I do know it makes little difference to the quality of beam.


I received the HiCRI Clicky a few days ago, and it has a well centered led.
Same goes for my 250 Rotary.


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## jimmy1970 (Nov 28, 2015)

kj2 said:


> I received the HiCRI Clicky a few days ago, and it has a well centered led.
> Same goes for my 250 Rotary.


That's great to hear. Sounds like Henry's QC is still as good as ever. Might be time for a HDS upgrade!

James....


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## wimmer21 (Dec 6, 2016)

I'd like to place a custom order but don't see any option in regards to emitter. I see where you mentioned XPG2 and XPL. I suppose I should just call them.

Anyway outstanding review here!


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## Lithium466 (Dec 6, 2016)

250 lumens => XP-G2
325 lumens => XP-L
200 lumens => Nichia 219B high CRI


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## wimmer21 (Dec 6, 2016)

Wow that was fast. Thank you sir!


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## Lithium466 (Dec 6, 2016)

You're welcome. When you are on the HDS website customizing your future light, if you click on "details" it will give you information regarding the led.

And if you want more, don't hesitate to stop by the last HDS thread 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?417896-HDS-Systems-EDC-19

but be careful, you may end up with more than one HDS...


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## Wishiwereaskibum (Feb 25, 2017)

What a great review and sorry to jump on this thread at this time, but it seems the logical place.

i have a bunch of lights ranging from zebralights, oligt, fenix etc... including the BLF A6. I really like the idea of the hds rotary obut get, but am struggling with the price rage of $270, especially for a 350 Lm output lamp when by far, my favorite off all my lights happens to be the cheapest BLF A6.

So, what am I missing here! Is the HDS rotary or executive really the Cates's meow? Today I can get the BLF a6 for $20 from bangeood. Yes it's a lower cost thing, the UI is really teriffic, but somehow I guess I want the rotary plus rear pushbuttion for "simplicity"- might give to the wife? 

Help me understand the value of this $270.... please...


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## Lithium466 (Feb 25, 2017)

I can't explain, but I encourage you to try one (you can return them within 30 days if unsatisfied). I guess it's over the quantity of lumens, a perfect package of practical and rugged illumination. Intended at close/medium range sure, with with an adequate mix of throw and wide beam. 
I was at the same point as you once, bought an HDS to try, but it ended up in a drawer. Then I reconsidered it one day, it really growed on me, and now I only have HDS. A surprising U-turn from lumens over all to practicity, convenience, great UI, and nice beam. And no, I am (unfortunately) not paid by HDS to advertise their products.


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## kaichu dento (Feb 26, 2017)

Wishiwereaskibum said:


> So, what am I missing here! Is the HDS rotary or executive really the Cates's meow? Today I can get the BLF a6 for $20 from bangeood. Yes it's a lower cost thing, the UI is really teriffic, but somehow I guess I want the rotary plus rear pushbuttion for "simplicity"- might give to the wife?
> 
> Help me understand the value of this $270.... please...


Yes, it is definitely Cate's meow, but I think you'll never understand until you have your hands on one.

Many of us here felt exactly as you do at the moment, but went ahead and picked up a used one off the MarketPlace so we could find out what all the fuss was about, and then found ourselves carrying them as favored light sources and daily (nightly) companions.

If you're a $20 light guy, nothing wrong with that either.


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## the0dore3524 (Feb 26, 2017)

*HDS ‘Epic’ Review – EDC Rotary and EDC Executive with new 2xAA and 18680(1865...*

I'll second the above. I avoided purchasing one for the longest time, because of the price tag (of course nowadays spending $200+ for a light doesn't seem strange to me), but finally caved due to sheer curiosity. I got the Executive and never regretted it. As others have said, it's hard to describe what it is that makes the light itself so great - it's just a sheer combination of factors. My HDS' are my go-to light. As much as I like some of my customs, when the going gets tough and if I could only have one light -- it would be an HDS. I highly recommend you pick one up!


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## Wishiwereaskibum (Feb 26, 2017)

Ha ha. Well, I'm not really a $20 flashlight guy per-say, but I've been spoiled by the BLF A 6. It's such a great light. Great beam, great quality, great UI, only it takes only LiPo's and for my wife, traveling, it would be nice to have AA compatibility! It's just really hard to justify spending 15x the $...!!!!






kaichu dento said:


> Yes, it is definitely Cate's meow, but I think you'll never understand until you have your hands on one.
> 
> Many of us here felt exactly as you do at the moment, but went ahead and picked up a used one off the MarketPlace so we could find out what all the fuss was about, and then found ourselves carrying them as favored light sources and daily (nightly) companions.
> 
> If you're a $20 light guy, nothing wrong with that either.


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## scout24 (Feb 26, 2017)

The Clicky, and the Rotary, will grow on you. Not the brightest, not the lightest, but the thinking that went into each, and the ability to pretty much make it do exactly what you want, just needs to be used to understand. Combine that with I-can-throw-it-down-the-road-until-my-arm-gets-tired durability, and it's a winner for a lot of those who try it.


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## bykfixer (Feb 26, 2017)

Been on good behavior for the most part since New Years day, but the voices keep whispering "just 1 won't be bad"... 
Rotary would be the choice.


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## indigon (Feb 26, 2017)

Agree with everyone on this page..

My 250 rotary XP-G2 user.
I'm pretty tough on my lights.
Added about $13. of odds and ends to it.
Clip, lanyard, caps and Lee filter for better tint.
No worries if it takes a spill or gets greasy.
Just wash it off with soap and water if it gets too grungy.
(Locator flash is "on").


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## scout24 (Feb 26, 2017)

I had owned one or two Clickies early in my time here, and sold them off. I hadn't grasped what they were truly capable of being. The nuances of the programming were lost on me in the quest for bright, and a fascination with titanium. Once I started to grasp things, I've had one or more in the rotation since. The ability to put any of 24 levels of brightness, either strobe, or SOS into any of the four preset slots, just makes so easy to tailor to your needs. Momentary from off? No problem. But not there if you don't want it. Auto turn off? Same story. Locator flash? No problem, but not there if you don't want it. Want to make it a single level light at your choice of output that you can't mess up if you try? No problem, program the same level into all four slots. Want a strobe only light no matter how you press the button? Same deal. Got you covered. Want a 2,3, or 4 level light with 5 lumens max output? Okay. Same but with 40 lumens as your lowest level? All day long. In a fairly efficient, bombproof host with great customer support? Welcome to HDS. Add the Rotary functionality into that mix, and it only gets better... See indigon's sig line... 

(I realize preaching to the choir, this is for those on the fence, like Mr. Bykfixer... . )


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## kaichu dento (Feb 27, 2017)

Wishiwereaskibum said:


> Ha ha. Well, I'm not really a $20 flashlight guy per-say, but I've been spoiled by the BLF A 6. It's such a great light. Great beam, great quality, great UI, only it takes only LiPo's and for my wife, traveling, it would be nice to have AA compatibility! It's just really hard to justify spending 15x the $...!!!!


Maybe you've got exactly what you need then! The only reason to buy anything is if you really want to. Few of us keeping all these HDS threads going had any interest in paying as much for these as we have, until we got used to relying on them.



Great post Scout, you've made me want to buy another now!


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