# Surefire’s 2009 New Lights Discussion - Part II



## dcjs (Jan 14, 2009)

*New Surefire LED lights at SHOT*

Just grabbed a SF tactical catalogue:

-aluminum CR123 "T1A Titan"

-seems like the Optimus is dead, no mention in the catalogue

-there's a P7 light that has the L6 body, a reflector head and a 2-stage tailcap called the M3L, loks like the L6 successor (350 lumens)

-M3TL has a TIR(!) turbo head (350)

-A2L and A2Z Aviator models with SSC P4 and extra leds for flood (120/10 and 120/25)

-V2L Vampire LED with two stage white or IR light (70/10 and 75mW/10mW)

-LX1 and LX2 to replace L1 and L2 (80/10 and 120/15)

No new models or protos were on display yet since they were just putting their booth together. Maybe I find time to stop by tomorrow and see what's actually in existence as prototypes.


----------



## Gary007 (Jan 18, 2009)

*Re: Surefire’s 2009 New Lights Discussion*

*photos provided by Goatee*, hosted by me.

for larger photos, click here

























































*I hope this is okay -- 600 x 800 *



:)> said:


> I am working to do this right now and trying to keep from uploading all of the images again cause it took a long time. I just tried to resize the files in www.photobucket.com but it didn't work.
> 
> If it becomes too problematic, can you please delete them and I will re-post them with the smaller sizes at some time later this evening?
> 
> Sorry for the sizes.


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 20, 2009)

Forgot to mention, it's nice to see that those who already own an M3 or M3T will be able to buy the LED heads seperately, instead of buying a new variation of the M3 light.

Wondering if the new LED heads will fit on my Leef 2x18650 C-M body.... It's basically a slightly longer, no grip-ring, M3T when running on rechargeables.... Looks like I'm adding a new SF head to my list of "must buy" items.


----------



## AA6TZ (Jan 20, 2009)

*Give and Take*

SureFire has 86'ed the Optimus and the 400 lumen Invictus. Instead, they will now be offering a 3-celled Invictus with a reduced output of 350 lumens.

So far, it's more "take" and little "give" on behalf of SureFire.

Since there will be no adjustable beam Optimus, why not sweeten the deal by bumping the Invictus up to, say, 450 lumens?

I'll bet several of us out here could "live" with that.

-Clive


----------



## woodrow (Jan 20, 2009)

Am I just missing it??? Is there no mention of a 200lm 2x123a light? (and the e2dl is not 200 lumens...I had one...also our fellow cpf'rs intagration spear tests confirm this)


----------



## Mercaptan (Jan 20, 2009)

woodrow said:


> Am I just missing it??? Is there no mention of a 200lm 2x123a light? (and the e2dl is not 200 lumens...I had one...also our fellow cpf'rs intagration spear tests confirm this)



Which integration sphere test was this? Link please.


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 20, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Forgot to mention, it's nice to see that those who already own an M3 or M3T will be able to buy the LED heads seperately, instead of buying a new variation of the M3 light.
> 
> Wondering if the new LED heads will fit on my Leef 2x18650 C-M body.... It's basically a slightly longer, no grip-ring, M3T when running on rechargeables.... Looks like I'm adding a new SF head to my list of "must buy" items.




I think we'd need a new tailcap, too, for the 2 levels?
When looking at the prices for single LED heads I guess buying a new light instead of the two items will be cheaper.
bernie


----------



## jac2001 (Jan 20, 2009)

Mercaptan said:


> Which integration sphere test was this? Link please.


 

+1 please....mine is quite comparable to my SF D-2 with a Malkoff M60. A couple of new beamshots in the snow this morning!

e2dl in the snow!






malkoff m60 in the snow


----------



## iapyx (Jan 20, 2009)

jac2001;2796244 [I said:


> Last edited by jac2001; Today at 02:28 PM. Reason: posted wrong pic, my bad! [/I]


 
yeah, I thought so. Was already trying to discover the 7 differences and couldn´t find any..  Thanks for editing.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 20, 2009)

woodrow said:


> Am I just missing it??? Is there no mention of a 200lm 2x123a light?


I don't think there is a realistic wide-spread need for such a flashlight in the applications SureFire makes illumination tools for given their capability to manage light (beams) like they do.
Feedback from operational users, especially in the Military gives clear messages that runtime and low-weight are more important than increased output. 
Feedback from Law Enforcement and other groups using light in CQB / indoors environments state that too much light is an issue and that the ballpark for too much light is 'when it gets far greater than 100-150 lumens' depending on the beam and conditions etc.

Where the higher output is needed is for longer range applications. SureFire need to be comfortable setting and rating the likes of the M3L and TurboHead at 350 or 400 lumens or whatever - remember users want runtime. Also consider that it's a SureFire lumen rating, and they are using a TIR optic in the TurboHead so it's likely that such a beam will appear higher output compared to other products CPF members may be comparing it to.

It must be very difficult for SureFire to hammer out the design and specs of new products given that they'll be mass-producing them in tens of thousands of units. Being able to source sufficient quantity of the LEDs SureFire wants must be a real issue they have to manage and plan for.

Perhaps some manufacturers can only dream of having the sorts of challenges SureFire has in brings new products to market?


----------



## Centropolis (Jan 20, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Where the higher output is needed is for longer range applications. SureFire need to be comfortable setting and rating the likes of the M3L and TurboHead at 350 or 400 lumens or whatever - remember users want runtime. Also consider that it's a SureFire lumen rating, and they are using a TIR optic in the TurboHead so it's likely that such a beam will appear higher output compared to other products CPF members may be comparing it to.


 
I was thinking about something last night. And I may be maybe someone has already mentioned this, or I am getting this completely wrong.

If the TIR is supposed to be internal focus, what's the effectiveness of the large reflector on the turbohead as compared to a "regular" head? I am sure that lights do bounce off the reflector as the TIR cannot catch all of them but still...doesn't the use of a Turbohead redundant?

(Someone can call me a loser if I totally misunderstood the TIR concept.)


----------



## Size15's (Jan 20, 2009)

SureFire have been experimenting with larger diameter optics for years (spinoff from the DARPA project). I believe they plan for the LED TurboHead with TIR optic to be 2" rather than 2.5" diameter suggesting that they can create the beam they want to from a smaller diameter bezel compared to using a reflector.


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 20, 2009)

If the beam of the M3TL is similar to the E-Series TIR it will be a Sci-Fi weapon.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 20, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> If the beam of the M3TL is similar to the E-Series TIR it will be a Sci-Fi weapon.


I was thinking the same. That thing will throw like Alien Technology... Imagine a beam from an UFO.


----------



## danpass (Jan 20, 2009)

I'd like to see yellow/green offered in the A2L ................


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 20, 2009)

danpass said:


> I'd like to see yellow/green offered in the A2L ................


I'll happily take one in plain green.


----------



## danpass (Jan 20, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> danpass said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to see yellow/green offered in the A2L ................
> ...



I hear ya. Its just that they seemed to have 'missed' one. Though I understand that past sales numbers probably dictated the color lineup.


Perhaps if they had touted the Y/G combo benefits some more? Maybe it'll be added next season.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 20, 2009)

I hope those new clips with fit on the E2DL. I was also thinking that those new clips would work GREAT on the C2 and C3 lights ... you could pull up the light off your pocket or belt for immediate action....


----------



## leon2245 (Jan 20, 2009)

Which one of these come in black? Just the Invictus?


----------



## MarNav1 (Jan 20, 2009)

Any prices? The newer L1 looks pretty cool, although I like L1's anyhow. Also the T1A too. I'm sure the rest are probably not within reach for now.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 20, 2009)

leon2245 said:


> Which one of these come in black? Just the Invictus?


Nope. The new *A2Z Combat Light* is all in Black Hard-Anodized and the *Z2* is Black Type-II.


----------



## leon2245 (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks O.F.


----------



## electromage (Jan 20, 2009)

Regarding the A2L: Not to say "I told you so", but...I told you so.

And now, I must have one! I just hope it's still cheaper than the Kroma, but I have a feeling it will be.


----------



## PinarelloOnly (Jan 20, 2009)

danpass said:


> I'd like to see yellow/green offered in the A2L ................


 
Me too!!!!

The yellow /green led's are the best for me in terms of reading nautical maps. 

I wouldn't buy a new one anyways based on the clips on the newer lights.

I may be alone on this but I actually hate those clips shown on the newer lights.


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 20, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> I think we'd need a new tailcap, too, for the 2 levels?


 
I'm wondering if the old tailcaps will work with the LED heads. Probably cause the heads to be one level, max brightness. I'd be happy with that. Still, probably going to be awhile before we discover if the new tailcaps are absolutely necessary with the new heads, or if the old ones will work with a loss of the low-level output.




> When looking at the prices for single LED heads I guess buying a new light instead of the two items will be cheaper.
> bernie


 
That's the other thing.... It's Surefire after all. Even if the old tailcaps will work on the new heads, the money saved in buying a head would likely only be a few bucks over buying the entire light.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 20, 2009)

danpass said:


> I hear ya. Its just that they seemed to have 'missed' one. Though I understand that past sales numbers probably dictated the color lineup.
> 
> Perhaps if they had touted the Y/G combo benefits some more? Maybe it'll be added next season.


I think it's more likely that a Y/G version will be offered and it'll be through a military/law enforcement catalog or channel rather than where it's benefits are highlighted.
It's perhaps bearing in mind that the catalogs are by no means tablets of stone as have been demonstrated year after year after year after year. If SureFire do release a product based on the A2L concept in the future it may well be quite different to the proto-type concept shown at SS2009.

Al


----------



## SilentK (Jan 20, 2009)

*Re: Surefire’s 2009 New Lights Discussion - Part II*



PinarelloOnly said:


> I may be alone on this but I actually hate those clips shown on the newer lights.



Dont worry, you are not alone. i also hate the way the a2L clip looks. they should make add-on clips so if one style is not for you, you can spend a few bucks and get another style.


----------



## L.E.D. (Jan 20, 2009)

Wow, the SureFire M3TL is SWEET!!! I wonder if the beam will exhibit the cross / philips screw looking beam, or if the optics will make the beam perfect...


----------



## ozner1991 (Jan 20, 2009)

just taggin along  

any new news on the natural e1b yet?:candle:


----------



## PinarelloOnly (Jan 20, 2009)

SilentK said:


> Dont worry, you are not alone. i also hate the way the a2L clip looks. they should make add-on clips so if one style is not for you, you can spend a few bucks and get another style.


 

The one thing for me is, the "fold" or the area where the clip makes the 
"U" bend near the tail.

With those newer clips, it is now one of the biggest (diameter wise in 
hand) of the light. You are definitely going to feel that clip the whole time 
its in your hand.

It just won't be a nice streamline feel as say on the incan Aviator where 
the nice long clip gradually slopes toward the tail of the light.

I can see how that style clip works for some on E1B but not everyone is Kojak.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jan 20, 2009)

See updated Surefire website. Noticed one change right off. L4-improved performance. 120 lumens. :naughty:

Bill


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 20, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> See updated Surefire website. Noticed one change right off. L4-improved performance. 120 lumens. :naughty:
> 
> Bill


That's not exactly breaking news... Check it out: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/218892


----------



## Size15's (Jan 20, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> See updated Surefire website. Noticed one change right off. L4-improved performance. 120 lumens. :naughty:
> 
> Bill


We have a thread on the updated L4 already. We're waiting for CPF members to get hold of them to show us details and do some runtime plots


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 20, 2009)

Size15's said:


> We have a thread on the updated L4 already. We're waiting for CPF members to get hold of them to show us details and do some runtime plots


Yep. Here is the thread for future reference:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/218892


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jan 20, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Yep. Here is the thread for future reference:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/218892



Thanks guys, I thought that was new posted info on their site.

Bill


----------



## KeyGrip (Jan 20, 2009)

PinarelloOnly said:


> Me too!!!!...
> I wouldn't buy a new one anyways based on the clips on the newer lights...



How about this; if you get a new A2 and those new clips are interchangeable with the regular E series clips, I'll trade you my E2L's regular long clip for the new two-way long clip.


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jan 20, 2009)

I want to stick the M3TL on my M6 body running 2 18650's.
I will then be at peace. 

If it only gives me 1 level I am perfectly fine with that. Actually I bet one of our custom parts makers will use this as the initiative to finally make an M6 clicky.


----------



## LED61 (Jan 20, 2009)

I´m thinking the low beam regardless of color will be much improved in these new units.


----------



## knldgskr (Jan 20, 2009)

The LX2 has substituted a TIR for the micro-texture reflector. Is this going to do away with the L2's floodlight characteristic?


----------



## txgp17 (Jan 20, 2009)

I notice the X400 is on there site now. I don't recall seeing that in the past.
http://www.surefire.com/X400-LED-WeaponLight


----------



## Shawn L (Jan 20, 2009)

txgp17 said:


> I notice the X400 is on there site now. I don't recall seeing that in the past.
> http://www.surefire.com/X400-LED-WeaponLight



It was up a couple days ago.


----------



## Stage Tech (Jan 20, 2009)

What is this rumor / true about a Saint Minimus ? who saw this and where ? live or catalog ?
Any news and pics would be welcome....
Thanks


----------



## planex (Jan 20, 2009)

knldgskr said:


> The LX2 has substituted a TIR for the micro-texture reflector. Is this going to do away with the L2's floodlight characteristic?


 

I was wondering the same thing. If the past is any indication, then the TIR will be more throw than flood. If that is the case, then I think I will stick to the A2L: low flood, and uses a reflector on high so should have decent spill.


----------



## tsask (Jan 20, 2009)

WOW! thanks for posting the catalog! I can admire that new A2 GREEN LED.


----------



## Federal LG (Jan 20, 2009)

I´ll definitely buy one LX1, or maybe a new colored E1B!


----------



## Moka (Jan 20, 2009)

I'm thinking that A2L may just have to find its way into my collection... Maybe by the time its released I'll have saved up enough to afford it =P :laughing:


----------



## AardvarkSagus (Jan 20, 2009)

Moka said:


> I'm thinking that A2L may just have to find its way into my collection... Maybe by the time its released I'll have saved up enough to afford it =P :laughing:


I'm going to start putting away a dime a day and I should be ok.


----------



## Tim B (Jan 20, 2009)

Speaking of putting away a dime a day, here's a suggestion for you married guys. Save all of your change. I mean the coins you get as change when you buy gas, coffee, food, etc. Roll it up in paper wrappers and cash it in at the bank. I have used this method with two different wives (not at the same time of course) and it worked with both. They don't mind me doing it this way. It doesn't take long to save up a lot and they don't see it as suddenly spending a lot out of the checking acct. Perception is the greater part of reality.


----------



## DLaird8201 (Jan 20, 2009)

I don't really like the new clips. I'm hard on my lights (L1 and L2) and have had to replace the clips a few times. But the new ones just look to flimsy. I would like to see an LX1 that floods like an L2 and has the throw of an L1 on high. :rock:


----------



## litetube (Jan 20, 2009)

except if you use a card to get gas/food and can't afford to buy coffee every morning at Dunkies. 
Better off going to the mall and jumping into the wishing fountain and getting up as much as you can before mall security gets to you. Those 2 wheel gizmos they ride on are fast on the straights but dont corner very well . Not too hard to evade them and get lost in the crowd. Once the heat dies down return and repeat step one as needed. You should have enough to get a new SF and/or bail yourself out of jail in a very short time


----------



## AardvarkSagus (Jan 20, 2009)

litetube said:


> except if you use a card to get gas/food and can't afford to buy coffee every morning at Dunkies.
> Better off going to the mall and jumping into the wishing fountain and getting up as much as you can before mall security gets to you. Those 2 wheel gizmos they ride on are fast on the straights but dont corner very well . Not too hard to evade them and get lost in the crowd. Once the heat dies down return and repeat step one as needed. You should have enough to get a new SF and/or bail yourself out of jail in a very short time


Sounds about right to me. 

Personally I can't wait to see the Red A2L. Is it going to be available in both Black and Olive or just one or the other?


----------



## Moka (Jan 20, 2009)

litetube said:


> except if you use a card to get gas/food and can't afford to buy coffee every morning at Dunkies.
> Better off going to the mall and jumping into the wishing fountain and getting up as much as you can before mall security gets to you. Those 2 wheel gizmos they ride on are fast on the straights but dont corner very well . Not too hard to evade them and get lost in the crowd. Once the heat dies down return and repeat step one as needed. You should have enough to get a new SF and/or bail yourself out of jail in a very short time


 
LOL or send a child to do it... they're hands can often reach through the grills they put in place


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 20, 2009)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Sounds about right to me.
> 
> Personally I can't wait to see the Red A2L. Is it going to be available in both Black and Olive or just one or the other?





> Is it going to be available in both Black and Olive or just one or the other?




A2L Aviator = Natural HA
AZ2 Combat Light = Black HA

They are very similar lights with basically the same functions and U.I, except the AZ2 has a higher low mode. 10 lumens VS 25 lumens on low. They are equally bright on high, though.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jan 20, 2009)




----------



## Jackal112203 (Jan 20, 2009)

Moka said:


> LOL or send a child to do it... they're hands can often reach through the grills they put in place




I can't stop laughing good one:thumbsup:


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 20, 2009)

Well I emailed opticshq about availability of these lights and they said the reply they got was April/May/June and they didn't even sound too sure about that. Ugh. I do, however think that the LX1 and LX2 will be out sooner than later since they dont seem to be that complicated.


----------



## Hitthespot (Jan 20, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Feedback from operational users, especially in the Military gives clear messages that runtime and low-weight are more important than increased output.
> Feedback from Law Enforcement and other groups using light in CQB / indoors environments state that too much light is an issue and that the ballpark for too much light is 'when it gets far greater than 100-150 lumens' depending on the beam and conditions etc.
> 
> Where the higher output is needed is for longer range applications. SureFire need to be comfortable setting and rating the likes of the M3L and TurboHead at 350 or 400 lumens or whatever - remember users want runtime. Also consider that it's a SureFire lumen rating, and they are using a TIR optic in the TurboHead so it's likely that such a beam will appear higher output compared to other products CPF members may be comparing it to.


 
I have been so happy with my E2DL that I was a little disapointed the new A2L, LX2, only have 120 lumens. I already have a 120 lumens optics light and was hoping for something with at least 20-30% more output. I never gave a thought about the fact that SureFires intended market may very well be happy with the output and wanted / needed updates and improvements in other areas. Thanks for this commentary Al, again it gave me something else to think about. Still I would have like to have seen a little more power from the LX1 and the LX2. I love the SureFire optics lights, have used them extensively outdoors, and in my opinion they are superior to reflector lights of comparable size and output.

Bill


----------



## marinemaster (Jan 20, 2009)

Good stuff Size 15. So low weight and runtime for outside; and 100 to 150 lumens for inside. How about lumens outside? Does SF mentions anything about that? I pretty much have my lights along this lines, so I am courious as what lumens are practical outside from the feedback SF gets.


----------



## outersquare (Jan 20, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> Well I emailed opticshq about availability of these lights and they said the reply they got was April/May/June and they didn't even sound too sure about that. Ugh. I do, however think that the LX1 and LX2 will be out sooner than later since they dont seem to be that complicated.


 
lol seriously hope no one is holding their breath


----------



## Moka (Jan 21, 2009)

Jackal112203 said:


> I can't stop laughing good one:thumbsup:


 
I have that effect  LOL

I've been saving schrapnel for ages, its what got me my first flashlight and what put me over the $300 (Thats AU dollars) mark for my last flashlight the Clicky... So I'll definitely be doing it for my next one as well...


----------



## toby_pra (Jan 21, 2009)

The most i lobe is the new design of the L-Models. 

But the furutre will show, when they will eb available...


----------



## PhantomPhoton (Jan 21, 2009)

Thanks a bunch for those pictures of the catalog!

I'd like to see y/g in the AZ2 as well as a nice low wavelength UV.
I'll need more information as well as actual proof that the lights will make it from the catalog to the retail shelves in less than a year before I'm excited about anything else. :mecry:


----------



## Size15's (Jan 21, 2009)

marinemaster said:


> Good stuff Size 15. So low weight and runtime for outside; and 100 to 150 lumens for inside. How about lumens outside? Does SF mentions anything about that? I pretty much have my lights along this lines, so I am courious as what lumens are practical outside from the feedback SF gets.


Low weight and runtime are universal (not specifically related to indoor illumination tool requirements)

Lumen ratings for extended range (distance) use... SureFire has the M4 and M6 doing well to service this area. 350 white-light LED lumens seems a good ballpark to be starting at but as we know, things get more complicated as we attempt to see things further away in low light. The beam profile is vital here and I suggest we see whether SureFire's offerings are suitable in the uses for which they are intended before demanding higher output for higher output's sake.

Al


----------



## maxspeeds (Jan 21, 2009)

> M3L Head




At first, it sounded like the M3L was going to have a tailcap like the L1/A2 (with a 2-stage twisty). But the more I look at the picture and read the description, it sounds like the switching will be in the converter board (like the E1B and KX2). With it's new 4-die LED, Reflector, & 2-stage converter, it is the best improvement in appearance and function for 2009, IMHO.


----------



## maxspeeds (Jan 21, 2009)

The only complete flashlight I'm looking to buy from Surefire for 2009 is the new A2Z. You can't beat the combat grip and HA Black! Oh yeah, and ofcourse the flood/spot all LED combination :twothumbs. This will be my aluminum substitute for my LS27 when I need extended play (XP). It looks like I will have a XP LS27 in 2009. Maybe it can also be bored out for 18650 cells :devil:


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 21, 2009)

DRAT. Surefire just told me via email that the E2DL won't be getting the new clip and the new clip won't work with it. Dang.....


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 21, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> DRAT. Surefire just told me via email that the E2DL won't be getting the new clip and the new clip won't work with it. Dang.....


 


We can only wait and see....I have spoke with a few reps over the phone at SF, and it seems some of the staff need more training and/or need to learn about the lights and parts more. I wouldn't take anything a rep says over the phone as fact (about the clip) until we actually get to try it.

Only time will tell.


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jan 21, 2009)

By the pics it sure looks like it would work. Well I'll just hope and wait.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 21, 2009)

Ugh. I also asked them when they thought the LX2 would be for sale and they said "mid year". Argh. The wait will drive me crazy.


----------



## mcmc (Jan 21, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> A2L Aviator = Natural HA
> AZ2 Combat Light = Black HA
> 
> They are very similar lights with basically the same functions and U.I, except the AZ2 has a higher low mode. 10 lumens VS 25 lumens on low. They are equally bright on high, though.



It also looked to me like the A2L had 3mm leds (more floody) and that the AZ2 had 5mm's (more throwy).

McGizmo has said that it was always odd to him that 5mm's were used to make a supposedly 'floody' beam, when they were designed for throw =) as compared to the 3mm's, which are much more floody. Hence their existence in the LunaSol series.

Speaking of which, both of these new lights will kind of be like poor man's versions of the LunaSol (well, depending on the price). Also vaporware versions, but, hey =D


----------



## wacbzz (Jan 21, 2009)

Here's what I don't get...when some of you guys see photos from a SF catalog of lights that you know are prototypes and then call SF and they don't give you a concrete release date, why are you disappointed? :shrug: 

If you want a catalog of lights that you know are currently out and and want the same rock solid warranty, pick up the newest Pelican catalog (as an example). Every light in there is _currently_ available. 

It's not like this is something new from SF. They do it every year.


----------



## Hitthespot (Jan 21, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> DRAT. Surefire just told me via email that the E2DL won't be getting the new clip and the new clip won't work with it. Dang.....


 
Thank Goodness. I am a big fan of the exsisting clip. The clip on the new LX1 and LX2 look an awfull lot like the clip on the E1B. I never liked that clip from day one, and it was the reason I sold my E1B. I will probably end of buying the new LX1 but I got a feeling I'm not going to like the clip.

Bill


----------



## Size15's (Jan 21, 2009)

mcmc said:


> It also looked to me like the A2L had 3mm leds (more floody) and that the AZ2 had 5mm's (more throwy).
> 
> McGizmo has said that it was always odd to him that 5mm's were used to make a supposedly 'floody' beam, when they were designed for throw =) as compared to the 3mm's, which are much more floody. Hence their existence in the LunaSol series.


I suggest these are examined in hand before deciding how and what they are about and what they can do. SureFire are not always behind the LED curve as some may think (sic)...


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 21, 2009)

wacbzz said:


> Here's what I don't get...when some of you guys see photos from a SF catalog of lights that you know are prototypes ....
> .



Where did they say they were prototypes? I didn't see or read that anywhere....


----------



## Size15's (Jan 21, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> Where did they say they were prototypes? I didn't see or read that anywhere....


Can you think of a SureFire new product that has been released at SHOT Show and was available for immediate shipping to dealers?
Compare this to how many new products SureFire has shown that were not ready for immediate shipping to dealers.

Also, I know SureFire shows off proto-types at SHOT Shows because they rush to get them ready in time and it is not unknown for some of the proto-types to be transported to the show sometimes not even in time for the first day opening.

Al


----------



## Hitthespot (Jan 21, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with SureFire showing off prototypes and ideas at the shot show. I always thought that was what the shows were for. Also to give you a hint at what may be possible and if anyone is interested. Look at all the concept cars that are shown at the huge Auto event. Many of those concept cars never make it past the show. I think many would be much happier if the lights that do make the catalog were either available, or available soon after the catalog was released. But if we are, we shouldn't confuse the show with the catalog.

Bill


----------



## wacbzz (Jan 21, 2009)

Hitthespot said:


> I see nothing wrong with SureFire showing off prototypes and ideas at the shot show. I always thought that was what the shows were for .... I think many would be much happier if the lights that do make the catalog were either available, or available soon after the catalog was released. But if we are, we shouldn't confuse the show with the catalog.
> 
> Bill



I don't have a problem with it either - the showing off of new prototypes either at the show or in the catalog. (**I do have a problem with them eliminating what was to be a very important part of the catalog-but that is for another thread**). 

But with SF, one cannot confuse the show and the catalog because they are both one and the same. Most everybody knows (or should by now) SF uses its catalog to show lights that _hopefully_ may be mass produced at some point in the future, but _may_ not be produced at all. Now, no, it doesn't state that anywhere in the catalog, but look at previous year's catalogs and one can't help but see a trend. This is _not_ a rip on them - it is what it is. 

It's the disappointment by so many when they are given a vague availability date that I just don't get. You know this. Every year. It's the same thing. And given the past history of this occurrence to be true, one can't be upset with SF - I don't think - for not releasing a prototype light ASAP. Maybe someday it will change. Doubtful, but one never knows. 

But asking SF to give a specific availability date for a prototype light is like me thinking I really was going to finally get a complete, non bombastic answer about the Made in the USA thing in the catalog. D'oh!


----------



## Wick (Jan 21, 2009)

maxspeeds said:


> At first, it sounded like the M3L was going to have a tailcap like the L1/A2 (with a 2-stage twisty). But the more I look at the picture and read the description, it sounds like the switching will be in the converter board (like the E1B and KX2). With it's new 4-die LED, Reflector, & 2-stage converter, it is the best improvement in appearance and function for 2009, IMHO.



I really hope you are wrong about this. The converter board setup, as you call it, found in the E1B is one of the worst tactical switch designs I have ever used. Nothing like expecting to get 80 lumens of output to clear a dark corner and only getting 10 lumens. As a non-tactical EDC type light, I think the switch design is great, which is what drives me crazy. First the E1B, then the E2DL and now possibly the M3L get these switches, all of which are primarily billed as tactical lights. I really hope to see an L1 or U2 type switch on the M3L. A converter board switch could be a deal breaker for me. 

As an aside, here is one reason I think you may be wrong. Do you think they will put the M3L replacement head on the market knowing it will replace many M500 and other weapon light bezels which currently run incandescent lamps? Operating a M3L head with converter board switching attached to a pressure pad switch would be a nightmare. It would be like putting an E2DL head on a scout light. I believe this is the exact reason Surefire made the KX2C. 

Who knows, maybe the M3L complete light will have two levels and the replacement bezels will be one level like the KX2C. I really have no idea.


----------



## Fooboy (Jan 21, 2009)

Wick said:


> I really hope you are wrong about this. The converter board setup, as you call it, found in the E1B is one of the worst tactical switch designs I have ever used. Nothing like expecting to get 80 lumens of output to clear a dark corner and only getting 10 lumens. As a non-tactical EDC type light, I think the switch design is great, which is what drives me crazy. First the E1B, then the E2DL and now possibly the M3L get these switches, all of which are primarily billed as tactical lights. I really hope to see an L1 or U2 type switch on the M3L. A converter board switch could be a deal breaker for me.
> 
> As an aside, here is one reason I think you may be wrong. Do you think they will put the M3L replacement head on the market knowing it will replace many M500 and other weapon light bezels which currently run incandescent lamps? Operating a M3L head with converter board switching attached to a pressure pad switch would be a nightmare. It would be like putting an E2DL head on a scout light. I believe this is the exact reason Surefire made the KX2C.
> 
> Who knows, maybe the M3L complete light will have two levels and the replacement bezels will be one level like the KX2C. I really have no idea.



That brings to mind a post I read on this forum or ar15.com. 

Some guy mounted an E2DL on his M4 carbine, and the impact of releasing the Bolt Carrier was enough to temporarily compress the battery spring in the E2DL enough to change the output from high to low (or visa versa).

Yea, that is not good. :shakehead

So the rule is - single stage on weapon lights


----------



## dcjs (Jan 21, 2009)

The M3TL at SHOT had only one stage.

Did I mention that the beam pattern was _*great*_? :nana:


----------



## ugrey (Jan 21, 2009)

My personal rule is: single stage only on flashlights I carry to use with my handgun. I aim to avoid embarrasing and dangerous 15 lumen mistakes that way. Two or more stages are for general use or camping flashlights.


----------



## cree_buyer (Jan 21, 2009)

PhantomPhoton said:


> I'd like to see y/g in the AZ2...



only *Surefire* has offerings in *y/g*... most multi-colored flashlights intended for military has *r/b/g +ir*...

is *yellow/green* completely invisible to the current generation of *nvg?* or is it just low signature? how would a y/g compared to just a regular green led beam behind nvg? surely the y/g led would be more useful at color rendition... i'm just curious of how they look like or behave behind nvg... 

 with experience using nvg with y/g or green leds???


----------



## KeyGrip (Jan 21, 2009)

Yellow green helps me read maps better. Don't know why, but it gives more contrast at a low level. I definitely has other uses, but that would be mine.


----------



## Tachikoma (Jan 21, 2009)

Yellow/green (555nm wavelenght to be precise) is the most visible color to the human eye, that's all.


----------



## toby_pra (Jan 22, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> Ugh. I also asked them when they thought the LX2 would be for sale and they said "mid year". Argh. The wait will drive me crazy.


 
Me too... :thumbsdow


----------



## matt0 (Jan 22, 2009)

Size15's said:


> *Can you think of a SureFire new product that has been released at SHOT Show and was available for immediate shipping to dealers?*
> Compare this to how many new products SureFire has shown that were not ready for immediate shipping to dealers.
> 
> Also, I know SureFire shows off proto-types at SHOT Shows because they rush to get them ready in time and it is not unknown for some of the proto-types to be transported to the show sometimes not even in time for the first day opening.
> ...



I joined the forum around the time of SHOT2008 and remember all the commotion about the E1B. Wasn't it released VERY soon after SHOT? Maybe they have a light that will be released just as quick this year...


----------



## Size15's (Jan 22, 2009)

matt0 said:


> I joined the forum around the time of SHOT2008 and remember all the commotion about the E1B. Wasn't it released VERY soon after SHOT? Maybe they have a light that will be released just as quick this year...


You're right that the E1B was the first model in a long time that SureFire 'surprised' everybody with releasing without anything close to the pre-production lead in it normally gives. I fear it is the exception rather than a widespread change in behaviour though.


----------



## MSaxatilus (Jan 22, 2009)

> So the rule is - single stage on weapon lights


 
+1 

MSax


----------



## Optik49 (Jan 22, 2009)

_ You can have a 2 stage light with a low but it needs to be a head turn, so you can use the light intermittently. The backup is a nice light but for LEO it’s a pain cycle from high to low then back to high._


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 22, 2009)

Optik49 said:


> _ You can have a 2 stage light with a low but it needs to be a head turn, so you can use the light intermittently. The backup is a nice light but for LEO it’s a pain cycle from high to low then back to high._


 
With the switching mechanism in the head, you can't just replace the tailcap to get a bright as Hell single-stage light.

(That's what I did with my Tiablo A9S. Got a forward-clickie for it. Turned a 2-stage light with a reverse-clickie that could tail-stand, into a bright as Hell tactical thrower with momentary function).


----------



## captainKrunch (Jan 22, 2009)

*when does SF release their 2009 catalog*

How long do we have to wait for them to put their 2009 catalog online? Is there a typical time? I would think they would put it up towards the end of the previous year


----------



## Juggernaut (Jan 22, 2009)

*Re: when does SF release their 2009 catalog*

Sometime next millennium if your lucky.


----------



## Optik49 (Jan 22, 2009)

:tsk: Don’t ask questions like that. :bow:You might make Surefire angry. 
Then  no catalog for you. :laughing:


----------



## 276 (Jan 22, 2009)

I don't think a new catalog will take too long I think last years was in Feb or Mar.


----------



## ja10 (Jan 22, 2009)

*Re: when does SF release their 2009 catalog*



captainKrunch said:


> How long do we have to wait for them to put their 2009 catalog online? Is there a typical time? I would think they would put it up towards the end of the previous year



I emailed them, and they said they hope to have it up in February.


----------



## Federal LG (Jan 22, 2009)

I´m waiting for the .pdf 2009 SF Catalog too... but why the hell I want that, if they don´t release what they show in the catalog ? :shrug:


----------



## foxtrot29 (Jan 22, 2009)

*Re: when does SF release their 2009 catalog*



ja10 said:


> I emailed them, and they said they hope to have it up in February.



I was told to call back in a week or two when speaking to customer service on an unrelated matter just a few days ago. (Regarding getting a 2009 cat.)

God damnit, I hope they at least release the LX2 or A2L.... Those look like the two lights I want... OF course, I'd rather have them all. lol


----------



## Student99 (Jan 22, 2009)

Don't know if this is ok or not to have an link. I found a slew of ShotShow 09 video reviews on Youtube. I found a couple of Surefire reviews,lights and knives from the EDC forum first. I hope this is not repeat either.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=GearBuyersGuide&view=videos


----------



## Heck (Jan 22, 2009)

whoa, msrp on the AZ2 is outta my league even if it would've been perfect for my job...


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jan 22, 2009)

What are the Msrp's on the new lights? I am @ work and can't watch Utube vids.


----------



## edc3 (Jan 23, 2009)

*AZ2:*

MSRP $260
Release Date - April or May

*Titan:*

MSRP $239
Release Date - February

*Saint Headlamp:*

MSRP $185
Release Date - Mid-April

Thanks for the link!


----------



## Daylo (Jan 23, 2009)

A2L:

MSRP $239
Release Date - June


----------



## monkeyboy (Jan 23, 2009)

Has anyone noticed that the ARC light has been bumped up to 5000lm? I want one! I hope they include a li-ion battery option.


----------



## toby_pra (Jan 23, 2009)

monkeyboy said:


> Has anyone noticed that the ARC light has been bumped up to 5000lm? I want one! I hope they include a li-ion battery option.


 
5000lm???


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks for the prices! I ought to have enogh time so save up for 1!
20 bucks every other week and I'll be good to go.


----------



## edc3 (Jan 23, 2009)

Thanks for the A2L price. I missed that.


----------



## cuester (Jan 23, 2009)

I've been lurking os may have missed the answer but is the Ua2 optimus for sure scrapped or is it just put on hold?


----------



## Chrontius (Jan 23, 2009)

woodrow said:


> Am I just missing it??? Is there no mention of a 200lm 2x123a light? (and the e2dl is not 200 lumens...I had one...also our fellow cpf'rs intagration spear tests confirm this)



An integration spear sounds like some kind of fantasy weapon, like a vorpal sword, or maybe a space-based capital ship beam weapon. 

An *integrating sphere* is a device for measuring lumens.


----------



## foxtrot29 (Jan 23, 2009)

edc3 said:


> *AZ2:*
> 
> MSRP $260
> Release Date - April or May
> ...



Ugh, I wonder what the LX2 and A2L will be like in terms of price. I'll be going with either on of those (or both ).


----------



## Chrontius (Jan 23, 2009)

In response to your criticism, I propose a solution: a DIP switch on the back of the head next to the contact spring. In one position, it's a converter-board light for those who don't have a new tailcap. In the other, it acts as a two-stage light for those so equipped, and always fires at full power for those with a standard tailcap or tape switch. New tape switches will be produced with a small, shielded section that acts through a 10-ohm resistor (sound familiar?) to fire the low beam as a navigation light, replicating some of the function of the dedicated AR forend weapon light. 



Wick said:


> I really hope you are wrong about this. The converter board setup, as you call it, found in the E1B is one of the worst tactical switch designs I have ever used. Nothing like expecting to get 80 lumens of output to clear a dark corner and only getting 10 lumens. As a non-tactical EDC type light, I think the switch design is great, which is what drives me crazy. First the E1B, then the E2DL and now possibly the M3L get these switches, all of which are primarily billed as tactical lights. I really hope to see an L1 or U2 type switch on the M3L. A converter board switch could be a deal breaker for me.
> 
> As an aside, here is one reason I think you may be wrong. Do you think they will put the M3L replacement head on the market knowing it will replace many M500 and other weapon light bezels which currently run incandescent lamps? Operating a M3L head with converter board switching attached to a pressure pad switch would be a nightmare. It would be like putting an E2DL head on a scout light. I believe this is the exact reason Surefire made the KX2C.
> 
> Who knows, maybe the M3L complete light will have two levels and the replacement bezels will be one level like the KX2C. I really have no idea.


----------



## Tempest UK (Jan 23, 2009)

cuester said:


> I've been lurking os may have missed the answer but is the Ua2 optimus for sure scrapped or is it just put on hold?





> The UA2 and UB2 flashlights are still in the development stage and there have been no plans to discontinue them. They were not listed in the 2009 catalog due to space restrictions which were better suited for other new upcoming products. We currently do not have an ETA as to when they will be available. Please check back with the SureFire website for any updates on the availability of UA2 and UB2. You can also sign up to receive new product notifications by email on our website.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> ...



Make of that what you will...

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Sgt. LED (Jan 23, 2009)

Yeah, development...................

CS blowin' smoke.


----------



## gsxrac (Jan 23, 2009)

Ok so I must be missing something here Ive yet to see an original Titan in person or play with one but for some reason I was picturing the "constantly variable" LED as a light that jumped up a few lumens at a time. NEVER would I have thought that the more you twist the brighter it gets? Is this the same way the jetbeam IBS lights work? I guess I just never thought about it? but after seeing that video I do see a reason for the price to be so high, thats freakin amazing. Is there any other light that works like that, that is slightly more... affordable(even more affordable then the T1A)? I really like it!


----------



## kongfuchicken (Jan 23, 2009)

ricehaterboi said:


> Ok so I must be missing something here Ive yet to see an original Titan in person or play with one but for some reason I was picturing the "constantly variable" LED as a light that jumped up a few lumens at a time. NEVER would I have thought that the more you twist the brighter it gets? Is this the same way the jetbeam IBS lights work? I guess I just never thought about it? but after seeing that video I do see a reason for the price to be so high, thats freakin amazing. Is there any other light that works like that, that is slightly more... affordable(even more affordable then the T1A)? I really like it!



I was under the impression the Surefire saint had the same mechanism as per its description on the review. I could be wrong but if I'm right, the saint minimus would be basically a cheaper and slightly uglier titan attached to a headlamp strap?

@tony,
yes it is 5000lms rated by SF (as per catalog specs which could change). 
Honestly, it's not farfetched at all; just look at the polarion ph50.
My only concern would be what kind of battery it runs on. I was turned off by the SF beast until I read they made a rechargeable pack for it; I'm hoping for li-ion but we'll see.


----------



## edc3 (Jan 23, 2009)

ricehaterboi said:


> Ok so I must be missing something here Ive yet to see an original Titan in person or play with one but for some reason I was picturing the "constantly variable" LED as a light that jumped up a few lumens at a time. NEVER would I have thought that the more you twist the brighter it gets? Is this the same way the jetbeam IBS lights work? I guess I just never thought about it? but after seeing that video I do see a reason for the price to be so high, thats freakin amazing. Is there any other light that works like that, that is slightly more... affordable(even more affordable then the T1A)? I really like it!



Pretty damn cool, isn't it? I want one!

I may be wrong, but the only other light I know of that works like that is the Gatlight but it's in the $400 range.


----------



## Beamhead (Jan 23, 2009)

The Titan/T1A in the video is different than in the catalog?


----------



## gsxrac (Jan 23, 2009)

Yep the Saint does have the same system judging by the video! But I cant justify wearing a headlamp everywhere so I need something a little more pocketable :thinking:


----------



## rtt (Jan 23, 2009)

ricehaterboi said:


> Yep the Saint does have the same system judging by the video! But I cant justify wearing a headlamp everywhere so I need something a little more pocketable :thinking:


 
LOL...who knows you may start a new trend!:thumbsup:


----------



## BugOutGear_USA (Jan 23, 2009)

cuester said:


> I've been lurking os may have missed the answer but is the Ua2 optimus for sure scrapped or is it just put on hold?



Back to R&D and not going to be released anytime this year (according the reps at SHOT).


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 23, 2009)

Daylo said:


> A2L:
> 
> MSRP $239
> Release Date - June


I don't understand what makes the AZ2 more expensive than the new Aviator?


----------



## Illumination (Jan 23, 2009)

Any ETA for the UB3?


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 23, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> What are the Msrp's on the new lights? I am @ work and can't watch Utube vids.


Yes you can!

http://youtubeproxy.org/


----------



## Juggernaut (Jan 23, 2009)

Chrontius said:


> An integration spear sounds like some kind of fantasy weapon, like a vorpal sword, or maybe a space-based capital ship beam weapon.
> 
> An *integrating sphere* is a device for measuring lumens.


 
:laughing:.


----------



## SCpooh (Jan 24, 2009)

a video of interest...

http://shepherdreport.com/index.html?id=sFoRidYS4QY&date=2009-01-21


----------



## KeyGrip (Jan 24, 2009)

I like the looks of the head on that first weaponlight. Four die, big reflector. Mmmmmm.


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 24, 2009)

KeyGrip said:


> I like the looks of the head on that first weaponlight. Four die, big reflector. Mmmmmm.


he said die, but if you're referring to the AZ2 then it's just one high powered LED with four surrounding it in the reflector.


----------



## KeyGrip (Jan 24, 2009)

I'm talking about that giant LED head that looks like it's attached to a forend or some other firearm component. It's the first thing they look at.


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 24, 2009)

OOOOO......E1B in Silver!!! I Like It!!:twothumbs

It'll match my car that I can't drive..


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 24, 2009)

KeyGrip said:


> I'm talking about that giant LED head that looks like it's attached to a forend or some other firearm component. It's the first thing they look at.


whoops  I was referring to the wrong video, just watched The Shepherd Report, and yes, that forend looks sweet.


----------



## 276 (Jan 24, 2009)

In the vid the rep says theres a handheld thats putting out around 490 lumen's i wonder what that one is, its 8:13 minutes in.


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 24, 2009)

flash_bang said:


> whoops  I was referring to the wrong video, just watched The Shepherd Report, and yes, that forend looks sweet.


 

Not to mention...I thought both of the gentlemen doing the interview were very informative and clear....best SF interveiew I've seen from SHOT so far!....Keep em comin!!

Excellent video:twothumbs


----------



## TITAN1833 (Jan 24, 2009)

What gives?the TITAN can't be ordered outside the USA,but the optimus can strange :thinking:

Not that I'm in a position to buy yet,I was just looking
Titan and optimus BTW both can be pre-ordered.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 24, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> What gives?the TITAN can't be ordered outside the USA,but the optimus can strange :thinking:
> 
> Not that I'm in a position to buy yet,I was just looking
> Titan and optimus BTW both can be pre-ordered.


Where did you read that? It must be some bug, because it is well known that no U.S dealer is allowed to ship a SureFire product internationally.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Jan 24, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Where did you read that? It must be some bug, because it is well known that no U.S dealer is allowed to ship a SureFire product internationally.


Click the link optimus :thinking:


[edit]Actually I was looking at the vendors in my links,that is how I came to this conclusion.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 24, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> Click the link optimus :thinking:
> 
> 
> [edit]Actually I was looking at the vendors in my links,that is how I came to this conclusion.


Ok, now I get it. Mind your Fingers is an UK dealer so that's why they are allowed to export. Battery Junction is American...


----------



## TITAN1833 (Jan 24, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Ok, now I get it. Mind your Fingers is an UK dealer so that's why they are allowed to export. Battery Junction is American...


 Thanks now I understand if I want to order I would have to go through a UK dealer, I've got it now.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 24, 2009)

TITAN1833 said:


> Thanks now I understand if I want to order I would have to go through a UK dealer, I've got it now.


I personally wouldn't recommend you paying full European prices. Buy from Ebay, you pay even less than from U.S dealers.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jan 24, 2009)

DaFABRICATA said:


> OOOOO......E1B in Silver!!! I Like It!!:twothumbs
> 
> It'll match my car that I can't drive..



DaFab, you mention, ever so often, that you can't drive, how come? Something about your license?

Bill


----------



## jzelek (Jan 24, 2009)

Another Video of the 2009 Surefire line up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poZbsdOUtx8


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 24, 2009)

Bullzeyebill said:


> DaFab, you mention, ever so often, that you can't drive, how come? Something about your license?
> 
> Bill


 

PM sent...too many points...just never went to try and get it back

Gonna try to get it back soon, considering I have 2 cars and 4 motorcycles that I want to drive
Been like 8+ years, but I've saved a LOT of money!


On Topic:

I REALLY hope Surefire releases some new lights this year and doesn't tease us....again!


----------



## AardvarkSagus (Jan 25, 2009)

8 Years? I couldn't last a week without being able to drive!

I would say that a few of these lights really look likely that they will be released. They don't see, to be as many extreme changes that are required to make most of them. I suspect that a couple of these might, however, end up purely showpieces and never actually see the retail floor.


----------



## Juggernaut (Jan 25, 2009)

Surefire: “LED were really not capable of the of Incandescent‘s technology , but this year they are officially capable of the output” :laughing:This is the funniest “in a sad, sarcastic, lying way” thing I’ve heard in along time. So I guess companies like wolf eyes and most notably Electrolumens simply were not official years and years ago! AND he goes on to say “we don’t need as many of those expensive batteries” really:thinking:? I pretty sure unlike you guys a good chunk of use have been running Li-ion so we sort of bypassed that problem along time ago:nana:.


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 25, 2009)

Juggernaut said:


> Surefire: “LED were really not capable of the of Incandescent‘s technology , but this year they are officially capable of the output” :laughing:This is the funniest “in a sad, sarcastic, lying way” thing I’ve heard in along time. So I guess companies like wolf eyes and most notably Electrolumens simply were not official years and years ago! AND he goes on to say “we don’t need as many of those expensive batteries” really:thinking:? I pretty sure unlike you guys a good chunk of use have been running Li-ion so we sort of bypassed that problem along time ago:nana:.


agreed, I don't think that was the best of SF's reps


----------



## Juggernaut (Jan 25, 2009)

flash_bang said:


> agreed, I don't think that was the best of SF's reps


 
ya, I’m not flaming SF, just their marketing.


----------



## curlyfry562 (Jan 25, 2009)

276 said:


> In the vid the rep says theres a handheld thats putting out around 490 lumen's i wonder what that one is, its 8:13 minutes in.



I caught that too, I wonder if he misspoke or if there is some other light we don't know about.


----------



## gsxrac (Jan 25, 2009)

Mmmmmm Silver Backup =)


----------



## Size15's (Jan 25, 2009)

curlyfry562 said:


> I caught that too, I wonder if he misspoke or if there is some other light we don't know about.


I wasn't at SHOT Show this year for the first time in quite a few years, and I understand the desire for information since I'm in the camp who weren't there.

However, I am getting the feeling that the coverage of the show from the CPF member perspective was rather poor this year. I'm sure there are plenty of things that haven't been communicated.

The silver Backup for example. Why aren't there photos of this light? It was on the SureFire booth. Really easy to snap a photo or two.

Al


----------



## StandardBattery (Jan 26, 2009)

flash_bang said:


> agreed, I don't think that was the best of SF's reps


 
... and the guy doing the interviewing was falling all over himself to praise Surefire and sound intelligent. Definetly not the best video... but still very nice since there has been very limited real information. It's almost like CPF skipped SHOT this year. 

Now that the show is over I'm surprised that the manufactures themselves have not released more information, especially since everyone is expecting the economic conditions to hit sales hard. I'm taking this to mean they are not ready to ship and don't want to advertise before they have product.


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jan 26, 2009)

StandardBattery said:


> ... and the guy doing the interviewing was falling all over himself to praise Surefire and sound intelligent. Definetly not the best video... but still very nice since there has been very limited real information. It's almost like CPF skipped SHOT this year.
> 
> Now that the show is over I'm surprised that the manufactures themselves have not released more information, especially since everyone is expecting the economic conditions to hit sales hard. I'm taking this to mean they are not ready to ship and don't want to advertise before they have product.


I wish Size15s was there to ask questions and write it up.


----------



## seale_navy (Jan 26, 2009)

those with the new 2009 SF catalog... did they mention anything about the surefire L4?


----------



## RobertM (Jan 26, 2009)

I have a sneaky suspicion that we will see the following lights released shortly/first: 
A2L
AZ2
E1B-SL
G3L-OD
LX1
LX2
T1A
HS1 (Saint)
HS2 (Saint)

-Robert


----------



## digitaleos (Jan 26, 2009)

RobertM said:


> I have a sneaky suspicion that we will see the following lights released shortly/first:
> A2L
> AZ2
> E1B-SL
> ...




The question of the year is how shortly? :nana:


----------



## Moka (Jan 26, 2009)

RobertM said:


> I have a sneaky suspicion that we will see the following lights released shortly/first:
> A2L
> AZ2
> E1B-SL
> ...


 

What are the two Saints there???
Can you clarify the difference???


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 26, 2009)

I thought there was a big version and a "minima" or something...


----------



## Moka (Jan 26, 2009)

flash_bang said:


> I thought there was a big version and a "minima" or something...


I have heard about the minima (or minimus) or whatever its called...
Anyone else heard anything about it or can provide more information besides just the Model number...

*in other news* WOW this is my 250th post =P


----------



## kongfuchicken (Jan 26, 2009)

SCpooh said:


> a video of interest...
> 
> http://shepherdreport.com/index.html?id=sFoRidYS4QY&date=2009-01-21



I know the the whole pedantic stereotype thing has been played out to death, is no longer remotely close to researched or even relevant in most general contexts and I'm supposed to let it go but... LEDs burn at *about 3000 degrees celcius*?!? what? are those SF rated degrees? 

(I'm sorry :nana


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 26, 2009)

kongfuchicken said:


> I know the the whole pedantic stereotype thing has been played out to death, is no longer remotely close to researched or even relevant in most general contexts and I'm supposed to let it go but... LEDs burn at *about 3000 degrees celcius*?!? what? are those SF rated degrees?
> 
> (I'm sorry :nana


if anything, surefire would underrate it


----------



## Illumination (Jan 26, 2009)

That sounded like marketing mumbo jumbo. Maybe there is a tiny piece of the led that gets to that temperature (which I doubt), but come on... leds burn a lot more cooly than incans. That said, leds are more susceptible to damage from overheating, but that is what a heat sink is for.

This guy is either confused or a bit of a fear monger...


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 26, 2009)

Illumination said:


> That sounded like marketing mumbo jumbo. Maybe there is a tiny piece of the led that gets to that temperature (which I doubt), but come on... leds burn a lot more cooly than incans. That said, leds are more susceptible to damage from overheating, but that is what a heat sink is for.
> 
> This guy is either confused or a bit of a fear monger...


LEDs may run cooler than a hotwire incan lamp, however a high-powerd LED runs a lot hotter than a regular incan light. Just compare a SureFire L4 to a stock incan Maglite...


----------



## Illumination (Jan 26, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> LEDs may run cooler than a hotwire incan lamp, however a high-powerd LED runs a lot hotter than a regular incan light. Just compare a SureFire L4 to a stock incan Maglite...



yeah, not surprised that someone called me on that. i was thinking more of crees ... a lot more efficient than the lux V of the L4. In any case I think the Surefire rep was fear mongering when he mentioned 3000 degree leds...


by the way, where is the "land of spiders"?


----------



## Moka (Jan 27, 2009)

Illumination said:


> This guy is either confused or a bit of a fear monger...


 
Or just a knob.... 

Perhaps he means 3000K colour temp... =P (that'd be nice if they all came out like that) a nice white


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 27, 2009)

Moka said:


> Or just a knob....
> 
> Perhaps he means 3000K colour temp... =P (that'd be nice if they all came out like that) a nice white


I thought 4-5000k was nice and white? I thought 3000k was incan (yellow "warmer") and that 5000k was a good LED (bluer "cooler")...

Cheers


----------



## Moka (Jan 27, 2009)

flash_bang said:


> I thought 4-5000k was nice and white? I thought 3000k was incan (yellow "warmer") and that 5000k was a good LED (bluer "cooler")...
> 
> Cheers


 
Thats right yeah... Perhaps SF are putting high CRI 'incan-like' LEDs in all of em... 

Well i can dream can't I


----------



## rtt (Jan 27, 2009)

I was wondering if someone with the 2009 SF catalog could check to see if any of the handheld lights are specified to be waterproof up to xx feet or meters? The only light that I could find in the 2008 catalog that states it is waterproof is the X300 weapon light, which is rated to a depth of 22 meters. I wonder if the weapon that the X300 is mounted to will function:naughty:.

IMHO if SF does not offer tactical hand held flashlights that are not rated to be waterproof to XX feet, their offerings will not be as attractive to the military community. Insight and Inova Inforce are specifing their handheld tactical lights are waterproof to xx depth. It seems to my simple mind that SF just has to make minor changes if any and get certification for waterproof to xx depth for their lights.


----------



## 276 (Jan 27, 2009)

If i remember correctly Surefires are waterproof to 33 feet but not meant for diving.


----------



## hurricane (Jan 27, 2009)

SureFire has a very strange way of handling themselves regarding new products. Take for example the Saint headlamp: this particular product has appeared in Outside Magazine twice now within the past year. It's currently in this month's issue, featured alongside other readily available headlamps, but there's no mention of this product on the SureFire website - none. The optimus and invictus were of course another debacle. Concepts are one thing, but to generate huge hype about a product, feature it in a catalog and then not deliver is pretty crappy ... and pretty amateur. SureFire makes awesome products and their customer service rocks, but the way they market their products leaves a lot to be desired. Perhaps they're too busy dealing with more lucrative military contracts. Put it this way: their marketing tactics won't be featured at Harvard Business School anytime soon. The amount of negativity [on this website] regarding SureFire's ability to actually deliver their new bevy of lights [recently unveiled at SHOT] is totally warranted. SureFire needs to take a lesson from Apple Computer: NEVER speak about a product until you're 110% sure you can deliver. I'm sure we'll all be blown away, but it's difficult to get excited about something that may or may not ever materialize. I was totally hot and bothered about the optimus and invictus, but like everyone else, I've had to curb my enthusiasm and consider something that's still super-hot but actually available: like the LunaSol 20! Meoooow.


----------



## Zen|th (Jan 27, 2009)

Hey guys, i emailed Surefire about the UA2 and UB2 about its production.

The guy told me that there is no plan on discontinuing the pair of lights! 

They are still in production but the ETA is unsure yet.. So it means it is still coming out! GREAT NEWS!!!


ps. I do not know whether this is old news or what, but im just reconfirming with u guys


----------



## N/Apower (Jan 27, 2009)

For a light under 8oz, can anything beat my KX2C Scout light in the throw department from SF yet?


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 27, 2009)

> Put it this way: their marketing tactics won't be featured at Harvard Business School anytime soon. The amount of negativity [on this website] regarding SureFire's ability to actually deliver their new bevy of lights [recently unveiled at SHOT] is totally warranted.



Yes, I think so. Then again, I think there is not that much negativity about this. I'd call it fatalism and acceptance of the unavoidable. We're long past the point of real negativity here. 

Still ... when they come out with something, I usually like it. 

bernie


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 27, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> Still ... when they come out with something, I usually like it.
> 
> bernie


 
I have to agree.... *when *Surefire brings a new light to market, it's usually a winner. 

It's that "when" part that frustrates the $#^% out of me.


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 27, 2009)

Yes. Even when prepared for the delays and cancellations, the hurt sometimes is there. Like now with the UB2. :mecry:

But then again ... I still have lights I am looking forward to. I don't know why, but the AZ2 is very appealing, sexy if you like. I need it. 
And so on ... 

Anyone remember the MiniBeast? Still phantasizing about this one ... 

bernie


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 27, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> Anyone remember the MiniBeast? Still phantasizing about this one ...
> 
> bernie


 
I think they re-named it. As I recall, there *is *a certain short HID light in the 2009 catalog.


----------



## iapyx (Jan 27, 2009)

Zen|th said:


> Hey guys, i emailed Surefire about the UA2 and UB2 about its production.
> 
> The guy told me that there is no plan on discontinuing the pair of lights!
> 
> ...


 
It is old news indeed. Someone was ahead of you. One or two pages earlier a fellow cpf'er said the same. If I remember correctly he made a phonecall to SF. Well, better twice a confirmation than none. 

edit: post #111 contains a quote of that message


----------



## TMedina (Jan 27, 2009)

rtt said:


> I was wondering if someone with the 2009 SF catalog could check to see if any of the handheld lights are specified to be waterproof up to xx feet or meters? The only light that I could find in the 2008 catalog that states it is waterproof is the X300 weapon light, which is rated to a depth of 22 meters. I wonder if the weapon that the X300 is mounted to will function:naughty:.
> 
> IMHO if SF does not offer tactical hand held flashlights that are not rated to be waterproof to XX feet, their offerings will not be as attractive to the military community. Insight and Inova Inforce are specifing their handheld tactical lights are waterproof to xx depth. It seems to my simple mind that SF just has to make minor changes if any and get certification for waterproof to xx depth for their lights.



Honestly, the whole "water proof to xx depth" issue doesn't have a lot of bearing on my daily life.

Of course, at the moment, I'm Army and my needs are different from, say, Navy or Coast Guard. 

-Trevor


----------



## Federal LG (Jan 27, 2009)

Agreed.

I think those new SF lights are great, but still only in paper. 
I mean, I like them, but I don´t put too much perspective of it´s release. Still sounds like marketing to me...

One side of me like them, but the other side is still waiting for the release, reviews, buying process, handle and use, then this other side will agree that they are good lights.

Until there, the wait. 
I would just believe when I see! :thumbsdow


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 27, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> I think they re-named it. As I recall, there *is *a certain short HID light in the 2009 catalog.



Yes, there should be two. But they don't compare to the tiny siuze and the secondary LEDs of the original concept. But oh well, would habe been way above my budget anyway.
So I'll stick to the AZ2, T1A, M3TL et al.


----------



## loszabo (Jan 27, 2009)

hurricane said:


> The amount of negativity [on this website] regarding SureFire's ability to actually deliver their new bevy of lights [recently unveiled at SHOT] is totally warranted. SureFire needs to take a lesson from Apple Computer: NEVER speak about a product until you're 110% sure you can deliver.



SureFire is not all about items in the catalogue. They are also working on other projects e.g. creating samples for big government tenders. In addition the founder Dr. John Matthews had the UB2 release pulled back, because he was not happy with the prototypes.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not here to defend SureFire, but my current company is very similar in announcing products after showing prototypes. Also, my last company Armor Holdings (now Safariland) created new body armor vests, you could not order for over two years...


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 27, 2009)

I think these two statements are related. SureFire probably saw less interest from the military in these (strobe/SOS too easily activated accidentally, too long and heavy?, whatever reasons...) after initial interest in them, and the civvy market would be too small for these to be economically viable without a military order (the downturn started mid-last year and maybe SF saw it coming?).


hurricane said:


> ...The optimus and invictus were of course another debacle. Concepts are one thing, but to generate huge hype about a product, feature it in a catalog and then not deliver is pretty crappy ... and pretty amateur. ... Perhaps they're too busy dealing with more lucrative military contracts.


----------



## rtt (Jan 27, 2009)

Blindasabat said:


> I think these two statements are related. SureFire probably saw less interest from the military in these (strobe/SOS too easily activated accidentally, too long and heavy?, whatever reasons...) after initial interest in them, and the civvy market would be too small for these to be economically viable without a military order (the downturn started mid-last year and maybe SF saw it coming?).


 
You could be correct. I was surprised to see the dollar value of SF's contracts with the Military in 2007. I thought that the Military contracts would be 10x larger, since SF offers many more tactical products beside handheld lights (suppressors, ear protection, weapon lights and mounting hardware and helmet lights). 

2007 Government contract data was:

Surefire LLC.......................$1,202,901 ($1.2 million)


----------



## Size15's (Jan 27, 2009)

Blindasabat said:


> I think these two statements are related. SureFire probably saw less interest from the military in these (strobe/SOS too easily activated accidentally, too long and heavy?, whatever reasons...) after initial interest in them, and the civvy market would be too small for these to be economically viable without a military order (the downturn started mid-last year and maybe SF saw it coming?).


The UA2 I got to try was surprisingly light for it's length. It was something I noticed straight away on being handed it.
That's not to say your general suggestion wasn't the case though.
From what I gather the UA2 issues were in range of focusing, details of the UI, and the UB2 issue was lack of sufficient quality/quantity/reliability high output LEDs.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 27, 2009)

Size15's said:


> The UA2 I got to try was surprisingly light for it's length. It was something I noticed straight away on being handed it.
> That's not to say your general suggestion wasn't the case though.
> From what I gather the UA2 issues were in range of focusing, details of the UI, and the UB2 issue was lack of sufficient quality/quantity/reliability high output LEDs.



And yet they can offer a UB3 which is the same aside from taking three batteries instead of two?


----------



## N/Apower (Jan 27, 2009)

So...

Are these 4-die monster lumen lights going to be flood or throw?

Is my M600C KX2C going to become obsolete? Or is it going to take a 3-cell, much heavier light to beat it in throw (from SF)?

*feeling kinda bad as I JUST bought it.*


----------



## ja10 (Jan 27, 2009)

I was looking over the catalog pages again, eyeing the new LX1, and I am a little confused.

The catalog appears to put the L1 at 80 lumens for 1.5 hrs, but the T1A is 70 lumens for 4 hours. Am I reading that right? Being larger in size, I would guess that efficiency of the converter, heat issues, etc would all fall as an advantage of the LX1 since it is larger.

Any guesses as to the difference?


----------



## RobertM (Jan 27, 2009)

digitaleos said:


> RobertM said:
> 
> 
> > I have a sneaky suspicion that we will see the following lights released shortly/first:
> ...



Unfortunately, that I do not know. :laughing:

For those who were wondering how I came to that specific list of upcoming lights...
I received my new SureFire M2 yesterday and registered it on SureFire.com/Register. When you register, you have to select your light via a drop-down list. Those lights in my list are already being listed! 

Robert


----------



## TMedina (Jan 27, 2009)

SF does market to military and law enforcement organizations, but the products are expensive and priorities have to be made.

3 years in the Army, one deployment to Iraq and the only SF product I've seen as issue was another unit sporting SF Scouts. 

The only SF products I've handled in the course of my duty day are the ones I bought myself and the Scout I found in the road. 

This isn't to say that there aren't units dealing with cutting edge, high speed gear - but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. 

For that matter, my unit never issued me a multi-tool, knife of any kind or even a flashlight. You can count on getting a very specific basic issue kit and just about anything else you have to acquire yourself. Mind you, the "basic issue" can vary wildly from post to post.

-Trevor


----------



## monkeyboy (Jan 27, 2009)

I've noticed that the M3L and the M3LT both have high and low modes (350lm/60lm). It looks to be some sort of new 2-stage C tailswitch as opposed to a multi-click interface. I'm not sure how that works as a replacement head - anyone know? Do we also need to buy a 2-stage tailcap? Can we get a 2-stage tailcap for the M6?


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 27, 2009)

It seems we don't know. Speculation has it that it will be the "mash down" tailcaps à la L1 et al.
Let's hope this is true. You might get just high mode then with the normal SW02 et al.
bernie

P.S.: speculation and assumptions above


----------



## Size15's (Jan 27, 2009)

KROMATICS said:


> And yet they can offer a UB3 which is the same aside from taking three batteries instead of two?


SureFire haven't actually released the UB3 yet though have they?
I mean, if an element of the delay was that the LEDs weren't ready, and now 'a year on' the LEDs are more to SureFire's requirements then perhaps SureFire will be ready to release new high-output LED products this year?


----------



## hurricane (Jan 27, 2009)

rtt said:


> You could be correct. I was surprised to see the dollar value of SF's contracts with the Military in 2007. I thought that the Military contracts would be 10x larger, since SF offers many more tactical products beside handheld lights (suppressors, ear protection, weapon lights and mounting hardware and helmet lights).
> 
> 2007 Government contract data was:
> 
> Surefire LLC.......................$1,202,901 ($1.2 million)



That's shockingly low. I agree, I would have thought it would be 10 or even 20 times that. You toss a few dozen Hellfighters into an order and that $1.2 mil gets gobbled-up pretty quickly. There has to be more to it. I would imagine they'd do that much business in a year just from the addicts on the CandlePower forum alone!


----------



## Art Vandelay (Jan 27, 2009)

I think that is just for flashlights. According to the first post that listed those numbers, they are broken down by types of equipment. What about the batteries?


----------



## chokker (Jan 27, 2009)

That seems very very low. I thought every one of our guys in iraq had some type of surefire device on them. you would think 1 million worth of batteries would have been ordered.


----------



## L.E.D. (Jan 27, 2009)

I really can't stop craving that M3LT!!!


----------



## Lightraven (Jan 27, 2009)

I think that includes batteries, since I paged through a prior year that had batteries under description.

I totally agree with TMedina, in the military and law enforcement. Surefire gear is still considered specialty items and relatively rare. From what I can tell, weaponlights may have trickled down to highly deployable light infantry like the 24th Infantry, maybe 10th Mountain, those types, but possibly not to heavy mechanized infantry and definitely not to non-infantry.

In my law enforcement agency, the tac team seems to have weaponlights on every M-4--one picture shows them with Pentagonlights, but everything else I've seen was SF.

By comparison, my patrol group has one or two shotguns and one M-4 with SF incandescent weaponlights, available for issue. They don't seem popular to check out, which might be surprising to gun and light buffs.

I have an X-300 for my handgun, but I prefer my rifle be unlighted, since my deploying my rifle indicates a very high risk situation that I don't want to use a light.


----------



## baterija (Jan 27, 2009)

chokker said:


> That seems very very low. I thought every one of our guys in iraq had some type of surefire device on them. you would think 1 million worth of batteries would have been ordered.



They don't. The majority of the troops located there won't ever go on a patrol at night or kick in a door.

Even if they did that wouldn't mean every year they would be buying a new light for each soldier, sailor, airman, or marine who stepped off the plane. Once the required number of lights were purchased to support the required issue density they would just be buying replacements for lights lost/destroyed.


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 27, 2009)

N/Apower said:


> So...
> 
> Are these 4-die monster lumen lights going to be flood or throw?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't sweat it, the E series stuff is a different class, if you will, of lights, it gives you runtime and brightness in a compact package, and these 4 die "monster" lights, as you say, will be just that: bigger in every way. :twothumbs:naughty:


----------



## hurricane (Jan 28, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> I really can't stop craving that M3LT!!!



I'm right there with you on that one ... that's the first one I'm buying!


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 28, 2009)

chokker said:


> That seems very very low. I thought every one of our guys in iraq had some type of surefire device on them. you would think 1 million worth of batteries would have been ordered.


 
As TMedina pointed out, some units don't even get what many would consider essential tools. As is often the case, soldiers have to buy their own multi-tools, knives, and even flashlights. :shakehead


----------



## hurricane (Jan 28, 2009)

While I think military personnel should be given the absolute best tools to do their job [and protect themselves], there may be some instances where buying your own accruements may be a good thing. In Canada, our troops are probably issued disposable dollar store plastic flashlights with 0.5 lumens of output ... that may be an exaggeration, but I'm probably not far off. It's total BS really ... give these people the most hardcore, well engineered kit available - period. The one problem with having personnel purchase their own knives and flashlights etc. is some may cheap-out and being in the middle of a war is no place for your gear to fail ... especially when you really NEED it. The other issue is parts/batteries. Standardization is the way to go ... any additional gear you want to purchase is fair game. But dammit-all give them some sweet-a$$ gear.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 28, 2009)

The reality is there has to be a balance of resources.
The British Armed Forces for example is often seen as not especially well resourced but this has encouraged them to be resourceful themselves and get the job done regardless.
There is also less risk of becoming over-reliant on kit.

Of course the exception for us is that we must have the ability to make a cup of tea at all times and pretty much every vehicle has a dedicated tea-making (water-boiling) facility designed into it right from the start.

Given the choice between flashlights and teabags, and I'm sure choices are a matter of life in resource-stretched fighting forces, I have no doubt we would take the tea.


----------



## Lightraven (Jan 28, 2009)

One thing to remember is that weaponlights are primarily a SWAT invention. Only hostage rescue military units had any use for flashlights on weapons, for the most part.

As infantry units have been forced into a law enforcement role in Iraq and Afghanistan, their tools and tactics have had to become more LE--you don't frag rooms before clearing them with full auto in a civilian environment. You bang them (if that) and clear them with light.

Only the soldiers tasked with these missions are likely to get lights on their weapons, or relatively expensive Surefire handheld lights. The guy driving the water truck (and God bless him) gets an old plain jane M-16, and isn't expected to clear terrorist safe houses. His issued flashlight is a grey Fulton with a traffic cone on it. He probably picks up a Camo Mini Mag at the exchange. 

The real scandal is the M-4, M-9, M-24 and M-249 and respective ammunition. The English have suffered their bullpup rifle even worse. All these weapons should be scrapped and reliable, hard hitting guns replace them.


----------



## hurricane (Jan 28, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Of course the exception for us is that we must have the ability to make a cup of tea at all times and pretty much every vehicle has a dedicated tea-making (water-boiling) facility designed into it right from the start.



LOL! Ahhh well ... it's a morale booster! :laughing:


----------



## iapyx (Jan 28, 2009)

Size15's said:


> The reality is there has to be a balance of resources.
> The British Armed Forces for example is often seen as not especially well resourced but this has encouraged them to be resourceful themselves and get the job done regardless.
> There is also less risk of becoming over-reliant on kit.
> 
> ...


 

with a cloud of milk please. 
Here in the NL every military person should have a pair of ice skates. Even if it freezes only once every 12 years


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 28, 2009)

Size15's said:


> The reality is there has to be a balance of resources.
> The British Armed Forces for example is often seen as not especially well resourced but this has encouraged them to be resourceful themselves and get the job done regardless.


 
Sadly, not much of a choice there. You either become resourceful with broken, outdated, or outright no equipment or..... Well, in a military setting; the "or" part is horribly obvious.


----------



## NoFair (Jan 28, 2009)

In the Norwegian army only SF get more or less whatever they want issued, the rest buy what we need ourselves.

We have been getting better at getting good extra kit to our soldiers without them having to pay for everything themselves.

Looking forward to the new L1 and A2 

Sverre


----------



## Tempest UK (Jan 28, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Given the choice between flashlights and teabags, and I'm sure choices are a matter of life in resource-stretched fighting forces, I have no doubt we would take the tea.



I'm still waiting for them to issue tea, letting alone teabags. I'm not quite sure what it is they put in the brew kit at the moment :sick2:




Lightraven said:


> The English have suffered their bullpup rifle even worse. All these weapons should be scrapped and reliable, hard hitting guns replace them.



As far as the British side of things goes - it has been replaced with a very reliable weapon - the A2. 

That said, I would really rather not see SureFires being issued to our armed forces...perhaps this is blasphemy on a flashlight forum, but I think we have better things to spend an already limited budget on. 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Federal LG (Jan 28, 2009)

I made a crap photo cut on Photoshop, just to have an idea of the look of the new *Surefire LX1*.

I´ll gonna post here, but remember that I just don´t know how to work with those photo softwares! 

Just an idea (unfocus your eyes to see it better... hehehehe):







I kinda like it...


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 28, 2009)

Federal LG said:


> I made a crap photo cut on Photoshop, just to have an idea of the look of the new *Surefire LX1*....


 
If you squint, it looks like one complete light. :thumbsup:


----------



## Federal LG (Jan 28, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> If you squint, it looks like one complete light. :thumbsup:



Exactly! 

Just to have an idea about the new SF LX1...


----------



## scubasteve1942 (Jan 30, 2009)

Can't wait for the A2L with red led's.


----------



## Petersen (Jan 30, 2009)

Don't know if anyone else has seen this:

SF catalogs are ready for download :twothumbs


----------



## RobertM (Jan 30, 2009)

Get your catalogs! 
 http://www.surefire.com/ 

Print request and downloadable PDF versions are now available!


----------



## FredericoFreire (Jan 30, 2009)

Petersen said:


> Don't know if anyone else has seen this:
> 
> SF catalogs are ready for download :twothumbs



Thank you for the info ! :twothumbs

http://www.surefire.com/misc/09_TACTICAL-lowres.pdf
http://www.surefire.com/misc/IT_catalog_09_final.pdf
http://www.surefire.com/pdfs/LE_guide_final.pdf


----------



## seale_navy (Jan 30, 2009)

haha.. all i can do now is look and wait for the torch to be on the market..


----------



## edc3 (Jan 30, 2009)

RobertM said:


> Get your catalogs!
> http://www.surefire.com/
> 
> Print request and downloadable PDF versions are now available!



Woot! Thank you.


----------



## zx7dave (Jan 30, 2009)

*Again...SF items in new '09 catalog and again unknown release date...*

So the new Surefire Catalog is up on the Surefire web page..and what is becomong a sad trend continuation from last year...none of the new lights are available. The lights are awesome...but only if you are able to buy and use them...I would prefer to not see the new lights in any kind of ad until that are actually available...


----------



## digitaleos (Jan 30, 2009)

RobertM said:


> Get your catalogs!
> http://www.surefire.com/
> 
> Print request and downloadable PDF versions are now available!




Thank you for the heads up kind Sir. 

Chris


----------



## 276 (Jan 30, 2009)

Awesome!!! :twothumbs thank you!!!!! the one day i forgot to check.


----------



## Illumination (Jan 30, 2009)

Now we just need ETAs!!!!

One of the good things (if you can call it that) of Surefire coming out with so many good lights is that I've lost my appetite for just about everything else so at least for the time being I don't have the urge to get anything new. (Well except for my an interesting light from my favorite custom designer and a new light from one of the premier US designers who started his own company recently...).

Woot, love your signature quote.


----------



## Splunk_Au (Jan 30, 2009)

The catalogue says the Invictus "is finally here" but I don't see it on their site store, nor any of the other new lights?


----------



## nosuchagency (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Again...SF items in new '09 catalog and again unknown release date...*



zx7dave said:


> ...I would prefer to not see the new lights in any kind of ad until that are actually available...


 
meh, at least they've removed some of the models from last year's... 

the year they advertise light sabres and don't deliver is the year they lose me as a customer. until then, they just get the stink eye.


----------



## angelofwar (Jan 30, 2009)

*Re: Again...SF items in new '09 catalog and again unknown release date...*

Given the way SF thinks/Acts as a "Group", I would expect the lights in the catalog to be available VERY soon. I mean, you come out with a catalog that has very few of the lights on yer website...doesn't make sense...I bet in the next few days/weeks we'll see them to start popping up, along with a slight re-design of there web-site. I know I'll be checking regularly...and with my tax return, that new L1 is looking pretty tempting...


----------



## Illumination (Jan 30, 2009)

Splunk_Au said:


> The catalogue says the Invictus "is finally here" but I don't see it on their site store, nor any of the other new lights?



I'll believe it when I see it. After last year's miss-step by SF, I won't consider it real until I can get it from a dealer.


----------



## zx7dave (Jan 31, 2009)

*Re: Again...SF items in new '09 catalog and again unknown release date...*

I certainly hope there are some changes to the website to include new '09 lights available...
The M4 and M6 shown on the website are from 6-8 years ago..how hard is it to add a new picture of your flagship models? The point is to stay in business right? 
This is annoying that one of the premier flashlight makers ignores such a key selling point as updating the picture models to reflect the current generation of light? Wow.


----------



## l2icel3all (Jan 31, 2009)

I guess they are not planning to manufacture the p61L. I've noticed that nobody has asked about that. I waited until I could actually view the catalogs and it seems they no longer mention p61Ls or high output runtimes for their P and C series lights running on the p60L drop in. Strange but thank god I didn't get my hope up but expecting that to actually come out.


----------



## Per Arne (Jan 31, 2009)

About the A2L, it says that you can have it in different color LEDs (4) with 10 Lumens (white, red, blue and green) and a White Main LED with 120 Lumens. When useing the Main LED, would also the colored LEDs be on as well? How would this influence the Main White output light? Would the "beam" be "colored"-whiteish or something... :thinking:

PA


----------



## AA6TZ (Jan 31, 2009)

RobertM said:


> Get your catalogs!
> http://www.surefire.com


 


FredericoFreire said:


> http://www.surefire.com/misc/09_TACTICAL-lowres.pdf
> http://www.surefire.com/misc/IT_catalog_09_final.pdf
> http://www.surefire.com/pdfs/LE_guide_final.pdf


 
Thank you Robert and Frederico! :twothumbs

-Clive


----------



## RobertM (Jan 31, 2009)

Most likely it will function as the current Aviator does--both the main beam and the LEDs light up. With my red Aviator, you see some of the red up close, but it's not terribly noticeable. When you shine the light further distances, IMO it's almost completely unnoticeable. 

Robert


----------



## GsichtBW (Jan 31, 2009)

To all UB3-Lovers:

Unfortunately the specification-chart in the new catalogue says that the UB3 will not fit in any surefire-holster. 

Before I got to the chart I wondered if you can unintentional turn the selector ring while the UB3 is holstered. When I'm right the UB2 was supposed to fit the V71-Holster. I hope there will be a solution for carrying the UB3 in a tactical manner :hairpull:.


----------



## CallMeDave (Jan 31, 2009)

RobertM said:


> Print request and downloadable PDF versions are now available!



Pretty crappy job generating the PDF out of QuarkXpress 7. The page labeled "2" is actually the third page, and it shows up on the right, ruining the spreads.

If you have Acrobat (not Acrobat Reader) you can delete the page after the cover, restoring the spreads to how they are(probably) printed in the physical catalog.

And the font embedding is a mess.

Great lights. Bad desktop publishing.


Dave


----------



## Charlie (Jan 31, 2009)

Odd that the M3L is in the Illumination and Tactical catalogs but the M3TL is only in the Tactical.

My reading of the pages about the Saint is that it uses one head with two different battery options, minimus [one front mounted CR123] and maximus [rear mounted, three CR123 or two AA] and if you order the standard one you get both but if you order the minimus you get the minimus only. Am I correct?

Couple of intresting things coming, but I will wait to see some reviews before spending. [I could be waiting a while]

Cheers
Charlie


----------



## Illumination (Jan 31, 2009)

Charlie said:


> My reading of the pages about the Saint is that it uses one head with two different battery options, minimus [one front mounted CR123] and maximus [rear mounted, three CR123 or two AA] and if you order the standard one you get both but if you order the minimus you get the minimus only. Am I correct?



+1 I was wondering the same thing. I think I would be more likely to use in 1 cell form...but the flexibility would be nice.

I wonder if it can use AA NiMhs?


----------



## Croyde (Jan 31, 2009)

Any views as to whether or not the UB3 Invictus and or the M3L are likely to run at full power and in regualtion on 2 x 17500 cells?


----------



## Long RunTime (Jan 31, 2009)

AA6TZ said:


> Thank you Robert and Frederico! :twothumbs
> 
> -Clive



 +1. Thanks for the link.


----------



## Long RunTime (Jan 31, 2009)

L.E.D. said:


> I really can't stop craving that M3LT!!!



Me too, can't wait to try that on my M6.


----------



## bfodnes (Jan 31, 2009)

Just browsed the catalog...

Going to get both saints and...

A new all time favorite....

Its a new L4 @ 5.5 hours runtime...


----------



## V8TOYTRUCK (Jan 31, 2009)

Nice find..I love the part where the National Geographic Photographer uses over a dozen M6's to paint Stonehenge with light! Awesome!

http://ngm.typepad.com/digital_photography/2008/05/shooting-stoneh.html


----------



## Splunk_Au (Jan 31, 2009)

bfodnes said:


> Just browsed the catalog...
> 
> Going to get both saints and...
> 
> ...


I thought they JUST updated the L4 like a month ago?
The site has the "IMPROVED PERFORMANCE" speced at 120 lumens for 2.2 hours. So is the one in the 09 catalogue a newer different L4? 120 lumens for 5.5 hours?

Edit: nevermind, just read this from the catalogue
"The L4 provides tactical-level light for two hours and useful levels
of light for up to five and a half hours."

I think they could have done a bit better, the Jetbeam Jet-III does about 225 lumens for 2+ hours regulated.


----------



## Ryanrpm (Jan 31, 2009)

V8TOYTRUCK said:


> Nice find..I love the part where the National Geographic Photographer uses over a dozen M6's to paint Stonehenge with light! Awesome!
> 
> http://ngm.typepad.com/digital_photography/2008/05/shooting-stoneh.html





I'd sure like to know how they wired them in parallel to get them all to turn on with a single switch.


----------



## LukeA (Jan 31, 2009)

V8TOYTRUCK said:


> Nice find..I love the part where the National Geographic Photographer uses over a dozen M6's to paint Stonehenge with light! Awesome!
> 
> http://ngm.typepad.com/digital_photography/2008/05/shooting-stoneh.html



Cheaper and easier would have been to buy a generator and a few floodlights.


----------



## LukeA (Jan 31, 2009)

It takes balls to put this:






Right next to this:






"When you buy SureFire, you know exactly what you’re getting. No exaggerations or inflated measurements." Says the company with asterisks right there on the runtimes.

And "ADVANCED RECHARGEABLES"? Maybe last century. 

At least this year's Arclight body is cost-effective to produce in aluminum, unlike the concept.


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 31, 2009)

I would really like someone to make a comparison between a 6PL and a 9PL as far as brightness and runtime. And yeah, that's kinda interesting, and I wish surefire gave their runtimes to a more useful brightness, not to one lumen, useful my foot.


----------



## marinemaster (Jan 31, 2009)

Any idea how much the Vampire will sell for ? Love the look of it.


----------



## Tintin (Jan 31, 2009)

I just noticed the silver E1B is available for ordering on surefire.com.


----------



## flash_bang (Jan 31, 2009)

cool, that silver E1B might be cool.

also, is there a particular reason why surefire raised the price on their E1L 30 dollars? and everything using the P60L went up 3 dollars. and the P60L USED to be 36..... 

Why, Surefire, Why?


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Feb 1, 2009)

Tintin said:


> I just noticed the silver E1B is available for ordering on surefire.com.


 

I can't find it..:thinking:

Linky? Please?

I have to have one....of course that means I need money to pay for it..:sigh:


----------



## kongfuchicken (Feb 1, 2009)

DaFABRICATA said:


> I can't find it..:thinking:
> 
> Linky? Please?
> 
> I have to have one....of course that means I need money to pay for it..:sigh:



It's the same page, no new picture but just a silver option when you chose to buy it from the website.


----------



## flash_bang (Feb 1, 2009)

there's a desert sand brown option for the KX2C, anyone have a picture of that?


----------



## steveG (Feb 1, 2009)

LukeA said:


>



The G3 LED uses the same Drop-in. Right?


----------



## flash_bang (Feb 1, 2009)

steveG said:


> The G3 LED uses the same Drop-in. Right?


yes, the wonders of polymer bodied lights strike again... :shakehead


----------



## ugrey (Feb 1, 2009)

I keep telling people that nitrolon is no good if you use an LED. LEDs brightness and runtime have made 6v and 9v incandescent lamp assemblies obsolete. Stop buying G2s, G2Zs and G3s. You need aluminum for an LED heat sink.


----------



## TMedina (Feb 1, 2009)

steveG said:


> The G3 LED uses the same Drop-in. Right?



Yep - only difference is the longer body for the extra cell which, in turn, accounts for the longer run time.

-Trevor


----------



## Bucky (Feb 1, 2009)

I wonder if the 80/120 from the LX1/LX2 will be noticeably if any brighter than the 80/120 from the E1B/E2DL due to different/newer/more efficient LEDs? 

If you look purely at stated runtimes, SureFire quotes 1.5 hrs for the LX1 as opposed to 1.3 with the E1B, and 2.0 hours for the LX2 and 1.9 hours for the E2DL. Something must be different.

Bucky


----------



## Toaster (Feb 1, 2009)

I saw on another forum that projected release date for LX1 is sometime in Fall '09


----------



## AN/MPQ-53 (Feb 1, 2009)

Surefire’s 2009 catalogs are available on their web site.


----------



## TENNlumens (Feb 1, 2009)

KROMATICS said:


> And yet they can offer a UB3 which is the same aside from taking three batteries instead of two?



My understanding from the main R&D Manager, at SHOT, the issue was getting what they wanted out of 6 volts. Now, with the new UB3, at 9 volts, they feel they have what that unit needs. Despite the extra length...


----------



## loszabo (Feb 1, 2009)

TENNlumens said:


> My understanding from the main R&D Manager, at SHOT, the issue was getting what they wanted out of 6 volts. Now, with the new UB3, at 9 volts, they feel they have what that unit needs. Despite the extra length...



Same thing I heard from my SF contact! :thumbsup:


----------



## Crenshaw (Feb 1, 2009)

i want the new LX1!!!, im sorry if this was discussed, but it looks like the Head might now hold the electronics? the body looks small!

also whats with the sudden lack in knurling?

Crenshaw


----------



## iapyx (Feb 1, 2009)

AN/MPQ-53 said:


> Surefire’s 2009 catalogs are available on their web site.


 
Someone was way ahead of you, see post #211


----------



## Blindasabat (Feb 1, 2009)

Maybe it doesn't happen in the land of Dixie, but up here, if you grab an aluminum light from the glovebox in -20 degree weather without thick gloves on, then be prepared for a shock! Even with thin gloves on, holding an AL light for long will freeze your hand. Nitrolon works great for winter and the body shape works better than even SF fine knurling for grip with gloves.
I keep a G2 with a 150L BOG cree drop-in in the car all winter, and even in summer it works great if I'm not using it for more than a few minutes. The way SF meant the G2L - with 80L - it runs great for an entire set of batteries.
Long live the G2!


ugrey said:


> I keep telling people that nitrolon is no good if you use an LED. LEDs brightness and runtime have made 6v and 9v incandescent lamp assemblies obsolete. Stop buying G2s, G2Zs and G3s. You need aluminum for an LED heat sink.


----------



## JNewell (Feb 1, 2009)

ugrey said:


> I keep telling people that nitrolon is no good if you use an LED. LEDs brightness and runtime have made 6v and 9v incandescent lamp assemblies obsolete. Stop buying G2s, G2Zs and G3s. You need aluminum for an LED heat sink.


 
The nitrolon bezel is OK with the P60, but thermal regulation kicks in, which reduces output but extends runtime. For full-power use or for more powerful dropins you need the aluminum bezel that ships with the G2L.


----------



## FredericoFreire (Feb 1, 2009)

I was wondering for how much will Surefire sell the Arc Light ARC-1. :thinking:

Any clues?


----------



## Illumination (Feb 1, 2009)

T1A Titan is available for ordering at Cabelas. Other dealers probably arent far behind.


----------



## V8TOYTRUCK (Feb 1, 2009)

LukeA said:


> Cheaper and easier would have been to buy a generator and a few floodlights.



Exactly what I was thinking....but hey..its National Geo, they have the money!


----------



## V8TOYTRUCK (Feb 1, 2009)

I've been wanting to purchase a T1A for a while now...but at that price! Ouch! Its not much smaller than their other single cell lights too. I guess the LOD is staying on there for a few more months. 

I might end up getting one either way, but the new A2L and Invictus look awesome


----------



## Size15's (Feb 1, 2009)

LukeA said:


> Cheaper and easier would have been to buy a generator and a few floodlights.


Stonehenge likely has very strict rules on the type of equipment that can be used on site. I'm not sure that generator(s) would be allowed.


----------



## Sgt. LED (Feb 1, 2009)

ugrey said:


> I keep telling people that nitrolon is no good if you use an LED. LEDs brightness and runtime have made 6v and 9v incandescent lamp assemblies obsolete. Stop buying G2s, G2Zs and G3s. You need aluminum for an LED heat sink.


 
Not in all cases. Depends on your intended drive level. Nitrolon is still usefull for many people. I like the non hand freezing body and a Malkoff M60LL in wintertime. 

Don't judge what is and isn't usefull for others so quickly.


----------



## AA6TZ (Feb 2, 2009)

A SureFire UB3 Invictus and M3LT are all I "need." :thumbsup:

-Clive


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 2, 2009)

FredericoFreire said:


> I was wondering for how much will Surefire sell the Arc Light ARC-1. :thinking:
> 
> Any clues?


Expect 5K+ minimum.


----------



## FredericoFreire (Feb 2, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Expect 5K+ minimum.




:sick2::mecry:

Too much for me


----------



## ja10 (Feb 2, 2009)

I asked this question a couple pages back, but didn't get a response ... I'll try one more time.

The catalog puts the L1 at 80 lumens for 1.5 hrs, but the T1A is 70 lumens for 4 hours. Being larger in size, I would guess that efficiency of the converter, heat issues, etc would all fall as an advantage of the LX1.

Is this a case of just how the time frame is measured? As in, maybe the L1 drops off hard at 1.5 hours, but the T1A slowly dims over the 4 hours?

I guess we probably won't know until the lights are released, but the difference in runtime is interesting.


----------



## MSaxatilus (Feb 2, 2009)

> T1A Titan is available for ordering at Cabelas. Other dealers probably arent far behind.


 
Cabela's has them "backordered" right now. I just tried to pick one up from them. Estimated shipping is 1-2 weeks. However, I would doubt that.

MSax


----------



## Size15's (Feb 2, 2009)

Firstly, I believe it fruitless to compare ratings of outputs and runtimes. SureFire have demonstrated that they do not use the same criteria expected here.
Therefore it is far better to ignore the runtime rating waiting for CPF members to produce runtime/output charts - far more useful for comparisons.

Secondly, I've always been of the impression that the two-stage push button pressure switch UI used by the likes of the L1 and L2 'costs' a certain amount and this sacrifice [in terms of runtime] is well worth it for the ergonomic benefit the UI affords the user.

We then have the Titan (T1A in this case) that has an altogether different UI which could well also incur a 'cost' to afford the user this unique switching interface (rotate the bezel relative to the body to 'seamlessly' adjust the output from 0 to 100%)

Anyway, I can completely accept these UI's won't be able to suck every last drop from the batteries compared to more traditional old technology UI's!

Al


----------



## ja10 (Feb 2, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Firstly, I believe it fruitless to compare ratings of outputs and runtimes. SureFire have demonstrated that they do not use the same criteria expected here.
> Therefore it is far better to ignore the runtime rating waiting for CPF members to produce runtime/output charts - far more useful for comparisons.
> 
> Secondly, I've always been of the impression that the two-stage push button pressure switch UI used by the likes of the L1 and L2 'costs' a certain amount and this sacrifice [in terms of runtime] is well worth it for the ergonomic benefit the UI affords the user.
> ...



Thanks for the input. My question was mostly theoretical, because you're right - we won't know until we see the graphs. I just thought the rather significant difference (1.5 to 4 hours) was interesting.


----------



## steveG (Feb 2, 2009)

Anyone know if a kit will be available to upgrade the Minimus to a full Saint?


----------



## Illumination (Feb 3, 2009)

MSaxatilus said:


> Cabela's has them "backordered" right now. I just tried to pick one up from them. Estimated shipping is 1-2 weeks. However, I would doubt that.
> 
> MSax



d'oh!


----------



## hurricane (Feb 3, 2009)

steveG said:


> Anyone know if a kit will be available to upgrade the Minimus to a full Saint?



Why not go the other way b/c we know the Saint was designed to be turned into a Minimus - so-to-speak. Unless the minimus is much much lower in price, I can't see why people would purchase the minimus over the saint. The saint has much more functionality [in the comfort and runtime category]. If you then purchase an additional kit [if available] for your minimus ... you have a saint. It would kind of make sense to just save-up the coin and buy a saint to begin with.


----------



## steveG (Feb 3, 2009)

hurricane said:


> Why not go the other way b/c we know the Saint was designed to be turned into a Minimus - so-to-speak. Unless the minimus is much much lower in price, I can't see why people would purchase the minimus over the saint. The saint has much more functionality [in the comfort and runtime category]. If you then purchase an additional kit [if available] for your minimus ... you have a saint. It would kind of make sense to just save-up the coin and buy a saint to begin with.



I hear what you're saying loud and clear. My hope was that the Minimus would be substantially less $$$$. The Saint really is overkill for anything I do and I'd probably never use it in full form, but the option to upgrade down the road would definitely be nice should the need arise.

This whole flashlight thing is getting out of control. I already have an expensive hobby! Ha!


----------



## V8TOYTRUCK (Feb 3, 2009)

Is there a way to detach the flashlight from the headband so its an ultra bright infinitely adjustable Zebralight? Someone should really make a shoulder strap/collar clip attachment so you dont look like tool when you're not in the outdoors


----------



## AA6TZ (Feb 3, 2009)

FredericoFreire said:


> I was wondering for how much will Surefire sell the Arc Light ARC-1. :thinking:


*Frederico*,

I was thinking the exact same thing, as I suspect many out here are. *MAN* would I LOVE to own an ARC-1 or ARC-2!!! The *$5,000*  cost mentioned by Outdoors Fanatic places an iron-clad damper on (against) owning either of them, sad to say. :mecry:

-Clive


----------



## hurricane (Feb 3, 2009)

steveG said:


> I hear what you're saying loud and clear. My hope was that the Minimus would be substantially less $$$$. The Saint really is overkill for anything I do and I'd probably never use it in full form, but the option to upgrade down the road would definitely be nice should the need arise.
> 
> This whole flashlight thing is getting out of control. I already have an expensive hobby! Ha!



I can't argue with that logic!  It certainly is expensive.


----------



## Federal LG (Feb 10, 2009)

What would you guys choose, between the new LX1 and the E1B Backup, and why ?

Both have the same output on high... and we don´t know when the new LX1 gonna show up.


----------



## Bucky (Feb 10, 2009)

Federal LG said:


> What would you guys choose, between the new LX1 and the E1B Backup, and why ?
> 
> Both have the same output on high... and we don´t know when the new LX1 gonna show up.



I think I like the clicky setup of the E1B slightly better than the press/momentary low, press harder/momentary high, twist/low, twist further/high of the LX1.

The tailcap preference and low setting runtime/output--and maybe little bit of the aesthetics--are what the decision comes down to.

Bucky


----------



## Federal LG (Feb 10, 2009)

That´s what I´m thinking too...

I mean, I already have a L1. I like the tailcap, but maybe it´s time to go to SF clicky. I just have doubt about their LEDs and drive... do you think it´s the same ?


----------



## Bucky (Feb 10, 2009)

Even though they're both rated at 80 lumens, I can't help but think that the new LX1 will be brighter and more efficient, but that's just a guess. I think the runtime of the LX1 on high is 1.5 hours instead of the quoted 1.3 for the E1B so something must be different.

Bucky


----------



## seale_navy (Feb 10, 2009)

the E1B is 1.3 hours of regulated runtime. For the LX1 we dont know what is the regulation like for 1.5 hours.

As surefire stated when they mean tactical runtime, they mean the runtime before the light dropping out of regulation. So far we know the p60l has 3hr tactical hours for 2 cell battery and 5.8 hrs tactical runtime for 3 cell battery..


----------



## angelofwar (Feb 10, 2009)

Sorry guys if this is biased, but I'm already attached to the new look of the LX1...regardless of minimal differences in R/T. I think the ergonomics on the new L1 will be a little easier than that of the current E1B (not to say that it isn't good...)


----------



## rtt (Feb 10, 2009)

angelofwar said:


> Sorry guys if this is biased, but I'm already attached to the new look of the LX1...regardless of minimal differences in R/T. I think the ergonomics on the new L1 will be a little easier than that of the current E1B (not to say that it isn't good...)


 
I have one of the early E1B's, which I did not like because it was to hard to use because of the ergonomics of this light. I did not use it for months until I read here on CPF about using either a Z68 or Z61 tailcap. I did not have a Z68 but replaced the E1B tailcap with a Z61. The Z61 provides enough knurling to overcome most of the ergonomic problems of the stock E1B. It is now one of my favorite lights!


----------



## Sean (Feb 11, 2009)

Now I have to decide, the M3L or the UB3. I guess I can let Surefire decide. Which ever one is released first. 
The Saint also looks great.


----------



## Search (Feb 11, 2009)

List of new lights in no order:

*UB3 Invictus*: Hi - 350 lumens (Does not state runtime) / Lo - 2 lumens (140 hrs at lowest setting) / 3 cr123 batteries / 11 settings/functions via selector ring / Press completely for max output. Press tail cap for momentary OR twist for constant on (these two for selected output via selector ring. Press completely for maximum no matter what the ring is set to.)

*T1A Titan*: Hi - 70 lumens (4 hrs) / Lo - 1 lumen (60 hrs) / 1 cr123 battery / Twist the bezel to select any lumen between 1 and 70. 

*AZ2*: Hi - 120 lumens (2 hrs) / Lo - 25 lumens (6 hrs) / 2 cr123 batteries / Press tail cap for momentary flood beam (25 lumens - 4 separate LEDs in reflector) or press further for momentary spot beam (120 lumens - Main LED). Twist for constant flood beam (Same as above) or twist further for constant spot beam (same as above).

*A2L Aviator*: Hi - 120 lumens (2 hrs) / Lo - 10 lumens (15 hrs) / 2 cr123 batteries / Press tail cap for momentary flood beam* or press further for momentary spot beam***. Twist for constant flood beam* or twist further for constant spot beam***.

Note:
* = 4 LEDs in the reflector. Available in 4 different colors: White, Blue, Green, Red.
*** = Main LED.


*V2L Vampire*: LED Hi - 70 lumens (2 hrs) / LED Lo - 10 lumens (6 hrs) // IR Hi - 75 mW (TBD runtime) / IR Lo - 10 mW (TBD runtime) / TIR / 2 cr123 batteries / Twist selector ring to choose IR or LED. Press tailcap for momentary low or press further for momentary high. Twist tail cap for constant on at either level.

*Saint (headlamp)*: Hi - 100 lumens (6 hrs) / Med - 10 lumens (48 hrs) / Lo - 1 lumens (144 hrs) / 1 or 2 or 3 cr123 batteries OR 2 AA alkaline batteries / Twist knob on right side to choose ANY lumen between 1 and 100. Can opperate off of 1 cr123 but allows 3. ALSO! This is the only light that can be used with 2 AA alkaline batteries instead of 3 (or 1, or 2) cr123 batteries. Allows for 360 degree rotation of light via knob on left side.

*Saint Minumus (headlamp)*: Hi - 100 lumens (1.5 hrs) / Med - 10 lumens (15 hrs) / Lo 1 lumen (50 hrs) / 1 cr123 battery / Same operation as Saint EXCEPT the Minimus only accepts 1 cr123 battery only. Smaller profile and LESS runtime. I don't think this light is new, according to the PDF, but I included it anyway.

*LX1 Lumamax*: Hi - 80 lumens (1.5 hrs) / Lo - 10 lumens (15 hrs) / 1 cr123 battery / TIR / Press tailcap for momentary low, press further for momentary high. Twist for constant low or twist further for constant high.

*LX2 Lumamax*: Hi - 120 lumens (2 hrs) / Lo - 15 lumens (30 hrs) / 2 cr 123 batteries / TIR / Press tailcap for momentary low, press further for momentary high. Twist for constant low or twist further for constant high.

*M3 LED Combatlight*: Hi - 350 lumens (7 hrs of tactical level light) / Lo - 60 (12 hours of useful light) / 3 cr123 batteries / Press tail cap for momentary on or twist further for constant on. Does not explain how to switch between low and high modes. From the movies I've seen, I believe owners of the M3 will be able to buy the head. Note, this is not a turbo head nor does it say this is a TIR.

*ARC-1 (HID)*: Hi - 2000 lumens (60 minutes) / Note, this is the only information I have. Short handle that holds twelve lithium batteries.

*ARC-1R (HID)*: Hi - 2000 lumens (2 hrs) / Slightly longer handle containing litium-ion rechargeable batteries that recharge in about an hour.

*ARC-2 (HID)*: Hi - 5000 lumens (60 minunes) / Lo - 2800 lumens (unknown) / Rechargeable battery (probably lithium-ion but doesn't specify) / Twist selector ring to change from low to high. Rechargeable battery reaches 80% capacity in less than 60 minutes.


Weapon Lights:

*M952V*: Hi LED - 70 lumens (2 hrs) / Hi IR - 75 mW (TBD runtime) / 2 cr123 batteries / W/O tape switch: Click on/click off tail cap. W/ tape switch: Apply pressure to pad for momentary on. Change to IR or LED via selector ring.

*M962L*: Hi - 350 lumens (1.5 hrs) / three cr123 batteries / W/O tape switch: Click on/click off tail cap. W/ tape switch: Apply pressure to pad for momentary on. Note, uses the LU10L head which is 4 die LED assembly. 

Weaponlight with Foregrips:

*M900V*: Hi LED - 70 lumens (2.5 hrs) / Hi IR - 75 mW (TBD runtime) / three cr123 batteries / Change between LED and IR via selector ring. Constant on switch on light. Momentary on swith on both sides of grip. Momentary on thumb switch on top of grip for navigation lights (seperate from main LED/IR assembly).

*M900L*: Hi - 350 lumens (1.5 hrs) / three cr123 batteries / Constant on switch on light. Momentary on swith on both sides of grip. Momentary on thumb switch on top of grip for navigation lights (seperate from main LED/IR assembly). Note, Also uses the LUI0L head, a 4-DIE LED.

Weaponlight with dedicated forend:

*M500L*: Hi - 350 lumens (1.5 hrs) / three cr123 batteries / Momentary on pressure pad for main light on right side. Momentary on prsesure pad for navigation lights on left side. Constant on rocker switch on left side. Navigation lights can be colored in white, red, or blue. Note, Also uses the LUI0L head, a 4-DIE LED.

*M500V*: Hi LED - 75 lumens (2.5 hrs) / Hi IR - 75 mW (TBD runtime) / three cr123 batteries / Selector ring to choose IR or LED. Momentary on pressure pad for main light on right side. Momentary on prsesure pad for navigation lights on left side. Constant on rocker switch on left side. Navigation lights can be colored in white, red, or blue.

*
M600C Scout Light*: Hi - 120 lumens (2 hrs) / two cr123 batteries / Momentary on tape switch. Also comes with momentary on, constant on tail cap switch. M600C uses a Picatinny Rail thumbscrew clap. M600C comes with the M600C-KIT01: Scout Light with push button tail cap switch, UE07 remote momentary on tape switch tailcap assembly (7" cable), FM63 infrared filter, and LU60A incandescent head and adapter (white light; emits infrared; lamp shock isolation); optional 120-lumen P61 lamp available .


*M620C Scout Light*: Hi - 120 lumens (2 hrs) / two cr123 batteries / Momentary on tape switch. Also comes with momentary on, constant on tail cap switch. M620X uses a 
Picatinny Rail throw-lever mount. M620C comes with M620C-KIT01: Scout Light with push button tail cap switch and UE07 remote momentary on tape switch tail cap
assembly (7" cable). 


M600C is identical to the M620C but EXCEPT the M600C has a few extras: LU60A incandescent head and adapter (white light; emits infrared; lamp shock isolation) AND FM63 infrared filter.



*4-DIE LED conversion chart*:

Current Weaponlight model that can accept LU10L or LU1LT replacement heads:

M961XM(xx) 
M962XM(xx) 
M971XM(xx) 
M972XM(xx) 

M900A 
M900AB 

M910A 
M910AB 

M500A 
M500AB 
M500B 

M511A 
M511AB 
M511B 


The L model has a tightly focused central beam but with surround spill.
The LT model has a TIR lens .

The heads have 350 lumens that run for 1.5 hours off of three cr123 batteries.

From what I gathered (I'm probably wrong):

Every light that has a 4-DIE LED has either an L or an LT at the end of it..

*The M3L = a 4-DIE LED with a tightly focused central beam.
The M3LT = a 4-DIE LED with a TIR lens.*

Basically the M3 can be made into an M3L or M3LT based on which one of the LU10L or LU1LT replacement heads you buy.

The same goes for any light that can accept the new LU10L or LU1LT replacement heads.*



V-SERIES CONVERSION CHART*:

M951ZM(xx) - M951C - M951P - M951SU(xx) - M952XM(xx) - M952C - M952P - M952SU

^^^^^ = *KM3 
*

M900A - M900AB - M910A - M910AB - M500A - M500AB - M500B - M511A - M511AB - M511B 

^^^^^ = *KM4*


*KM3*: Hi LED - 70 lumens (2 hours) / Hi IR - 75mW (TBD runtime) / 2 cr123 batteries

*KM4*: Hi LED - 70 lumens (2.5 hours) / Hi IR - 75 mW (TBD runtime) / 3 cr123 batteries





If I messed anything up please tell me. If I need to add anything please tell me.

I hope this saved some people from having to dig through the PDFs. I definitely wasted two or three.. or four hours. I'm going to bed.


----------



## Size15's (Feb 11, 2009)

Search,
I think perhaps the information on the U2 is out of date. There is already a U2A with higher output and longer runtime

It would also be worth mentioning what makes the M620C different from the M600C


----------



## tsl (Feb 11, 2009)

Search said:


> *AZ2*: Hi - 120 lumens (2 hrs) / Lo - 25 lumens (6 hrs) / 2 cr123 batteries / Press tail cap for momentary flood beam (120 lumens - main LED) or press further for momentary spot beam (25 lumens - 4 seperate LEDs in the reflector). Twist for constant flood beam (Same as above) or twist further for constant spot beam (same as above).
> 
> *A2L Aviator*: Hi - 120 lumens (2 hrs) / Lo - 10 lumens (15 hrs) / 2 cr123 batteries / Press tail cap for momentary flood beam* or press further for momentary spot beam***. Twist for contant flood beam* or twist further for constant spot beam***.
> 
> ...


 
Nice info. Thanks!

For the A2Z, you have the flood and spot beams reversed. It's 120 lumens out of the main LED for the spot beam and 25 lumens for the flood via 4 separate LEDs.

For the A2L, just to clarify that there are not four separate colored LEDs in the reflector. The LEDs are all the same color, and you have a choice of white, blue, red, or green.


----------



## Size15's (Feb 11, 2009)

tsl,
You're right to suggest better clarity regarding the colour options for the A2L's secondary LEDs.


----------



## Federal LG (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanks for the info, Search!

*What about the silver Backup ? Does anyone have it, yet ?*

I´ll gonna buy a Backup, or a LX1 (if it takes not too long to release...)


----------



## Monocrom (Feb 11, 2009)

For the M3L, I'm still trying to figure out why Surefire made it into a multi-mode light.


----------



## Search (Feb 11, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Search,
> I think perhaps the information on the U2 is out of date. There is already a U2A with higher output and longer runtime
> 
> It would also be worth mentioning what makes the M620C different from the M600C



Removed the U2. I wasn't aware of that.

Adding the extra info on scout lights.



tsl said:


> Nice info. Thanks!
> 
> For the A2Z, you have the flood and spot beams reversed. It's 120 lumens out of the main LED for the spot beam and 25 lumens for the flood via 4 separate LEDs.
> 
> For the A2L, just to clarify that there are not four separate colored LEDs in the reflector. The LEDs are all the same color, and you have a choice of white, blue, red, or green.




Fixed. Thanks!


----------



## neilki (Feb 11, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Search,
> I think perhaps the information on the U2 is out of date. There is already a U2A with higher output and longer runtime
> 
> i'm confused (nothing new there)
> ...


----------



## KeyGrip (Feb 12, 2009)

Dunno what you mean by trashing, but my U2A has no markings on it to differentiate from the LuxV model. The best way to tell is to just look at the emitter.


----------



## Size15's (Feb 12, 2009)

With in-line productions changes like this - SureFire isn't especially consistent with it's model numbering.
The KL5 became the KL5A
But the U2 hasn't formally become the U2A, nor the KL4 formally become the KL4A (or L4 to L4A)

I don't see any reason for not using the terms U2A and KL4A for sake of clarity.


----------



## iapyx (Feb 13, 2009)

Size15's said:


> With in-line productions changes like this - SureFire isn't especially consistent with it's model numbering.
> The KL5 became the KL5A
> But the U2 hasn't formally become the U2A, nor the KL4 formally become the KL4A (or L4 to L4A)
> 
> I don't see any reason for not using the terms U2A and KL4A for sake of clarity.


 
For sake of clarity anything is granted 

Size15's, does the U2A indeed have a higher output than the U2. From Milkyspit's beamshots I'd say yes, a little. 

Just curious. There is a U2A on its way to me. Will compare it soon with the U2 I already have (with slight donut hole).


----------



## Size15's (Feb 13, 2009)

As I understand it the KL5A and U2A are 120 lumens and much extended runtime.


----------



## MSaxatilus (Feb 13, 2009)

> Size15's, does the U2A indeed have a higher output than the U2. From Milkyspit's beamshots I'd say yes, a little.


 
I've held both lights side by side, and I'd say NO. The beam profile on the two lights is different which makes the pictures look as though the U2A is providing more output. Simply put, the U2A's beam is slightly more focused compare to the original 5W U2. But I don't see a significant difference in overall output.

I'm pretty sure Milky has posted similar observations.

MSax


----------



## iapyx (Feb 13, 2009)

MSaxatilus said:


> I've held both lights side by side, and I'd say NO. The beam profile on the two lights is different which makes the pictures look as though the U2A is providing more output. Simply put, the U2A's beam is slightly more focused compare to the original 5W U2. But I don't see a significant difference in overall output.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Milky has posted similar observations.
> 
> MSax


 
yes, you are right about Milky's observations and his posts. Although from the pics he posted I'd say the U2A puts out a tiny bit more. But I admit that I shouldn't judge it from a pic. Could very well be because the U2A is slightly more focussed. Can't wait to compare the two lights myself....


----------



## steveG (Feb 17, 2009)

Anyone know what the beam is going to be like with the LX series lights? Focused or flood?

I thinking about replacing my E2DL with an LX2. I love the beam and brightness of the E2DL but I think the low on the LX2 would be more useful for me and I really like the UI of the LX2 switch.


----------



## Sean (Feb 20, 2009)

I'm confused. 
Early in the catalog it says: T1A Titan: Hi - 70 lumens (4 hrs)
Then, in the back (end) of the catalog it says 70 lumens for 1 hr.

It also seems that the Saint minimus is nearly identical to the T1A in size, single battery setup and rotary switch. Yet the saint's output is 100 lumens and the T1A is 70 lumens. I'm wondering if the T1A's output is really the same as the Saint and the catalog is just wrong? It's obviously already wrong on the run time. And if the T1A is not 100 lumens like the Saint, I wonder why not? It's obviously doable.

I guess what I'm trying to say is *I want a 100+ lumen T1A! *


----------



## Size15's (Feb 20, 2009)

Sean
I think it is better to consider the rating given to the proposed new product once it has been released as this rating is more likely to be current then musings in catalogs produced months earlier.


----------



## Sean (Feb 20, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Sean
> I think it is better to consider the rating given to the proposed new product once it has been released as this rating is more likely to be current then musings in catalogs produced months earlier.



Good point. I was just kinda thinking out loud while waiting for it to be released.


----------



## BigMHoff (Feb 21, 2009)

I know the answer is no, but do we know when the A2L AVIATOR is coming?


----------



## edc3 (Feb 21, 2009)

I think they said June in one of the videos from Shot.


----------



## loszabo (Feb 21, 2009)

edc3 said:


> I think they said June in one of the videos from Shot.



:lolsign:


----------



## loszabo (Feb 28, 2009)

What happened to the P61L drop-in, btw?


----------



## Welding Rod (Feb 28, 2009)

I am not getting my hopes up at all about what is in the 2009 catalogue.... look at the items in the 2008 catalogue that never materialized. 

I checked the Surefire website a couple times a week for a year to buy some of those things. I have no faith left to bother with that again.


----------



## jzelek (Feb 28, 2009)

loszabo said:


> What happened to the P61L drop-in, btw?


I'm pretty sure its dead! 
No mention of it at shot 09. 

If you want a high powered led drop-in buy a Malkoff or Dereelight.

I've heard the new 120 lumen L4 is out, but no one has a review yet.


----------



## damn_hammer (Feb 28, 2009)

Welding Rod said:


> I am not getting my hopes up at all about what is in the 2009 catalogue.... look at the items in the 2008 catalogue that never materialized.
> 
> I checked the Surefire website a couple times a week for a year to buy some of those things. I have no faith left to bother with that again.



+1


----------



## skalomax (Feb 28, 2009)

Still, It's good to see SF is on the right track.

I like the A2L especially.


----------



## richardcpf (Feb 28, 2009)

Does anyone knows if the optimus will be a production light or just a concept?


----------



## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2009)

loszabo said:


> What happened to the P61L drop-in, btw?


 
It's either on hold, or it's dead.

Just get one of Gene's M60 drop-ins instead.


----------



## loszabo (Mar 1, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Just get one of Gene's M60 drop-ins instead.



I will do. Message received! :sigh:

I'm very sceptical about 3rd-party drop-ins, but I had excellent experience with Lumens Factory drop-ins so far and only read good things about Malkoff devices...


----------



## auxcoastie (Mar 1, 2009)

Welding Rod said:


> I am not getting my hopes up at all about what is in the 2009 catalogue....



I know someone who works at SF and he is confident that they will come out. But even he complains about the time line marketing would have them meet.

I know how hew feels with our marketing people.


----------



## Monocrom (Mar 1, 2009)

loszabo said:


> I will do. Message received! :sigh:
> 
> I'm very sceptical about 3rd-party drop-ins, but I had excellent experience with Lumens Factory drop-ins so far and only read good things about Malkoff devices...


 
Must admit that I've had some bad luck with 3rd party drop-ins myself. While many aftermarket drop-ins will fit inside a Surefire bezel, when you screw the bezel back on; it'll only go about halfway! To me, that's not Surefire compatible. Gene's drop-ins are far better. There's still a gap when you screw the bezel back on, but it is such a thin gap that you might not even notice it at all. (That's actually what happened to me the first time I installed a handmade M60 into my SF C2). 

I did eventually transfer the M60 into my 6P due to the fact that the thin gap did cause the clip on my C2 to loosen just a bit. It become too loose for my tastes. Put a Surefire P61 (inca) lamp into my C2. Screwed the bezel down completely to tighten up the clip. However, a C2 w/ Malkoff drop-in is one of the most popular combos on CPF. I've read posts from numerous members who love this set-up. It didn't work out for me, but that's just me. 

The thin gap is needed for heat dissipation. There's more weight to Gene's drop-ins as well. Some prefer to use his creations in a 9P or C3 instead of the 2-cell SF models, for a bit better weight distribution.

As far as Lumens Factory goes, I've noticed that same very thin gap in my E1E. (The only Surefire I have with an LF lamp in it). Not a big deal, and a bit less expensive than buying an MN01.


----------



## NoFair (Mar 1, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Must admit that I've had some bad luck with 3rd party drop-ins myself. While many aftermarket drop-ins will fit inside a Surefire bezel, when you screw the bezel back on; it'll only go about halfway! To me, that's not Surefire compatible. Gene's drop-ins are far better. There's still a gap when you screw the bezel back on, but it is such a thin gap that you might not even notice it at all. (That's actually what happened to me the first time I installed a handmade M60 into my SF C2).
> 
> I did eventually transfer the M60 into my 6P due to the fact that the thin gap did cause the clip on my C2 to loosen just a bit. It become too loose for my tastes. Put a Surefire P61 (inca) lamp into my C2. Screwed the bezel down completely to tighten up the clip. However, a C2 w/ Malkoff drop-in is one of the most popular combos on CPF. I've read posts from numerous member who love this set-up. It didn't work out for me, but that's just me.
> 
> The thin gap is needed for heat dissipation. There's more weight to Gene's drop-ins as well. Some prefer to use his creations in a 9P or C3 instead of the 2-cell SF models, for a bit better weight distribution.


 
I put a drop of superglue on the clip and slid it in. Hasn't moved since

And the C2 with a 2 stage switch and M30W is very close to perfection.

Sverre


----------



## BigD64 (Mar 4, 2009)

I am a huge Surefire fan and have friends at Surefire. I am however going to call them and ask to see if my 2009 catalog should go into the "fiction" pile of my magazines. After being teased and disappointed with the 2008 catalog, I will only believe it when I can see it. I refuse to speculate on any of the new lights until I can hold one. If I do hold one I probably will not let it go. Come on Surefire, Stop ****in around and get some of those babies into circulation.


----------



## 276 (Mar 4, 2009)

A little off topic but has anyone gotten their 2009 catalog yet??

On another note i think this year i'll be happy as long as one of the new lights comes out this year, i don't care when just as long as they come out this summer or fall is fine with me it will give me time to recover from my recent purchases.


----------



## AA6TZ (Mar 4, 2009)

BigD64 said:


> I refuse to speculate on any of the new lights until I can hold one. If I do hold one I probably will not let it go. Come on Surefire, Stop ****in around and get some of those babies into circulation.


*+1*! "I heard 'dat!" 

-Clive


----------



## knightrider (Mar 4, 2009)

No more knurling? :mecry:

Looks like it's gone the way of the dinosaurs. I have a love for knurling both in how it looks and what it does for grip. The E1B has been ok though, I must admit, and has no knurling. 

Kind of a new stylistic choice for the design of these new lights. They look more futuristic and less military to me, or maybe future military? Very cool new look (L1, A2L, Vampire, etc.) just different and was thinking about it earlier. That new A2L is my favorite so far, would love to get one of those!


----------



## Blueberry556 (Mar 18, 2009)

Scout light section should read like _this_ according to rep I had on phone:



Search said:


> [snip]
> *
> M600C Scout Light*: Hi - 120 lumens (2 hrs) / two cr123 batteries / Momentary on tape switch. Also comes with momentary on, constant on tail cap switch. M600C uses a Picatinny Rail thumbscrew clasp. *
> 
> ...



Thanks for the effort putting this out there... :thumbsup:


----------



## Optik49 (Mar 20, 2009)

276 said:


> A little off topic but has anyone gotten their 2009 catalog yet??
> 
> On another note i think this year i'll be happy as long as one of the new lights comes out this year, i don't care when just as long as they come out this summer or fall is fine with me it will give me time to recover from my recent purchases.


 

It came the other day.


----------



## Force Attuned (May 1, 2009)

The A2Z looks very nice...


----------



## spts (May 1, 2009)

do you think sf could ever use some r&d to make a waterproof lilght at least to a couple feet. c'mn for the money they want for these things it's a shame you can't put them in your pocket and go through a river. it's bad enough that i have to carry my weapon over my head and now my light!


----------



## WDR65 (May 1, 2009)

spts said:


> do you think sf could ever use some r&d to make a waterproof lilght at least to a couple feet. c'mn for the money they want for these things it's a shame you can't put them in your pocket and go through a river. it's bad enough that i have to carry my weapon over my head and now my light!



SPTS,
Almost all of Surefire's lights are rated to over 30 feet of submersion. Some models with the addition of extra o rings are able to go much deeper. The only ones that are not able to go very deep are the rechargable models and the upcoming Saint headlamp which I believe is only waterproof to the depth of 1 meter.


----------



## rtt (May 1, 2009)

WDR65 said:


> SPTS,
> Almost all of Surefire's lights are rated to over 30 feet of submersion. Some models with the addition of extra o rings are able to go much deeper. The only ones that are not able to go very deep are the rechargable models and the upcoming Saint headlamp which I believe is only waterproof to the depth of 1 meter.


 
Do you have a source that corroborates your statements?


----------



## Phredd (May 1, 2009)

rtt said:


> Do you have a source that corroborates your statements?




Did you check their catalog?


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (May 1, 2009)

rtt said:


> Do you have a source that corroborates your statements?


Taken from Flashlight Reviews:

_"SureFire has affirmed that all current SureFire lights should be waterproof to about to 33 feet/10 meters. Some reviews were posted before SureFire made the affirmation that their lights were watertight to 1 atmosphere depth. Any new SureFire light you purchase now should be considered waterproof to 33 feet/10 meters."
_ 
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/surefire_g2.htm

This is very old news...


----------



## schiesz (May 1, 2009)

I don't have anything to back it up, but I always understood that they were "IPX7" or some such rated that basically says that they will survive submersion to a certain depth (1 Meter I believe) for 30 minutes. That doesn't necessarily mean that you can use them at that depth for that amount of time, but that they can do it without permanent damage. For example, turn the light on, submerge, then take it out and dry it off and it will still be working.


----------



## rtt (May 1, 2009)

Seems like there are sources that state that Surefire Flashlights are waterproof to 33 feet as per Flashlight Reviews. On the other hand Surefire FAQ located here http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&pgrfnbr=65&sesent=0,0 states the following:

*"Is my SureFire flashlight waterproof?*

_Most SureFire lights are water resistant but not waterproof. As of 2001, all models excluding the E1, E2, and G2 have diaphragm-sealed, lock out tail caps that make them far more water resistant than earlier models."_

Do we believe Surefire or Flashlight Reviews?


----------



## Bushman5 (May 2, 2009)

Welding Rod said:


> I am not getting my hopes up at all about what is in the 2009 catalogue.... look at the items in the 2008 catalogue that never materialized.
> 
> I checked the Surefire website a couple times a week for a year to buy some of those things. I have no faith left to bother with that again.



ditto...... I'm happy with the SF lights i have but i have given up on any of the cool new stuff ever being available in Canada. I'll probably be 60 before the Arc series is even released

:tired:


----------



## Size15's (May 2, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Taken from Flashlight Reviews:
> 
> _"SureFire has affirmed that all current SureFire lights should be waterproof to about to 33 feet/10 meters. Some reviews were posted before SureFire made the affirmation that their lights were watertight to 1 atmosphere depth. Any new SureFire light you purchase now should be considered waterproof to 33 feet/10 meters."
> _
> ...


It's also very old news that this statement is full of holes. Plenty of threads on this topic [of SureFire waterproofness]


----------



## Optik49 (May 4, 2009)

Any update when any of the new Surefire lights are going to be released?


----------



## TITAN1833 (May 4, 2009)

Optik49 said:


> Any update when any of the new Surefire lights are going to be released?


Sure the T1A titan and the X400 have been released,two I know of anyway


----------



## Force Attuned (May 12, 2009)

Looking forward to both the A2Z and LX1...the LX1 looks like it will be my new EDC when I get it in my hot little hands!


----------



## Npc1978 (May 12, 2009)

Called surefire, and the AZ2 is scheduled for June 30th with a msrp of 260.
Hope this helps.

Npc1978


----------



## Monocrom (May 12, 2009)

Npc1978 said:


> Called surefire, and the AZ2 is scheduled for June 30th with a msrp of 260.
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Npc1978


 
It does. But think of it as an optimistic possibility, rather than a definite release date. Many of use who enjoy Surefire products, we're learned not to get our hopes up. Until a CPFer actually buys a new SF product and posts about it, SF release dates are about as valuable as dollar bills with Ronald McDonald's face printed on them.


----------



## FlashSpyJ (May 14, 2009)

When SF didn't release the Invictus 2008 I started to loose my interest in lights. Now one year later and still now invictus, and yet none of the 2009 models are out (atleast none of the ones Im interested in, and not the P61L that I have been waiting on) I can say with confidence that my interest in flashlights has died out and are probably not going to come back!

Its a good thing though! I wasted way to much money on this hobby, even though its a fun hobby, for me thats just whats it is. I have flashlights that I could use if there would ever be a need for one, I will continue to edc atleast one light  (owning three lights in total  )

But I will not be throwing my hard earned money at flashlights companies again. I had really hoped that I could give SF some more money though. The new A2L seems to be the ideal light for me right now, if it only had around 200 real lumen with atleast two hours burn time on high....


----------



## Monocrom (May 14, 2009)

FlashSpyJ said:


> When SF didn't release the Invictus 2008 I started to loose my interest in lights. Now one year later and still now invictus, and yet none of the 2009 models are out (atleast none of the ones Im interested in, and not the P61L that I have been waiting on) I can say with confidence that my interest in flashlights has died out and are probably not going to come back!


 
If your interest hadn't died out, I'd recommend getting one of Gene's M60 drop-ins. (It's what the SF P61L was supposed to be, and more).


----------



## FlashSpyJ (May 14, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> If your interest hadn't died out, I'd recommend getting one of Gene's M60 drop-ins. (It's what the SF P61L was supposed to be, and more).



The lights that I own now are one Fenix L0D, L2T Rebel, and a 6P head and tailcap but with the Leef 18650 body and LF 3,7V single mode drop in.
If it hadn't been for the LF drop in I would have got a Gene drop in!

My interest are still there, Im just not going to buy anything more until the ones I have brakes or get lost. But it was the delay from SF that made me realize that Im not going to buy anymore lights... But who knows, when (and big if) SF ever is releasing a light that suits my needs, I might really need one! Im not holding my breath though...


----------



## leon2245 (May 19, 2009)

Does anyone have a link handy for A2L vs. AZ2 specs (weight, length, bezel & body diameter etc.)? So long as they're not too expensive I might give one of those a try.


----------



## Death's Head (Jun 3, 2009)

Any updates on the LX1? I'd like to know how much longer I should wait before I should just go ahead and buy something else instead.


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 3, 2009)

Death's Head said:


> Any updates on the LX1?...


 
That's a negative on that.


----------



## Optik49 (Jun 8, 2009)

Any idea when some of the other light are going to come out?


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 8, 2009)

Optik49 said:


> Any idea when some of the other lights are going to come out?


 
2009 is half-way over, and we're still waiting for Surefire models that had a 2008 initial release date. 

So I'd say they'll be released 5 minutes after Hell has frozen over... And the Devil starts handing out free snowcones. 

(Obviously, I'm kidding. But honestly, no one knows for sure. And it's not a question of "when," but a question of "if." The UB2 was announced with a 2008 release date. But was discontinued before even getting into customers' hands).


----------



## thermal guy (Jun 8, 2009)

You know i have and have had many surefire lights and think they are great.But i have just lost interest in them.They make a good light no question about that but so do others and i know it has been talked to death but really why can't they just put out there lights in a timely fashion or at least in the same year:shrug:


----------



## iapyx (Jun 9, 2009)

Optik49 said:


> Any idea when some of the other light are going to come out?


 

here, have a look at this thread: 
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=232131&page=2

or let me just quote MattK:


MattK said:


> Okay here's the best current info available. This is all subject to change but is current as of this week. Don't shoot the messenger!
> 
> LX2: Within weeks.
> 
> ...


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 9, 2009)

iapyx said:


> .... let me just quote MattK:


 
Thanks, not sure how I missed the part regarding the *P61L* listed as TBD (To Be Determined).

I'm sorry, but that's just freaking ridiculous. Surefire has definitely done some things right. But the P61L isn't one of them. It was one thing when you had to buy one of Gene's handmade M60 drop-ins. They cost a pretty penny, and weren't readily available whenever you wanted one. A P61L back then would have made sense. A production LED drop-in that could compete with Gene's M60, a great idea! Production means more supply, and at a lower cost per unit since each drop-in isn't handmade. A great idea indeed...

Apparently that's what Gene realized. No more waiting for a handmade M60, when you can get the production version. By the time Surefire bothers to release the P61L, Gene will have likely upgraded his M60 to put out twice as much light as it does now. 

If a Surefire executive is reading this, just offer to buy Gene's M60 design. You can slap a P61L label on it, change the packaging to say "SureFire," and call it a day. 

TBD for the P61L .... That's embarassing as Hell. :thumbsdow


----------



## Daniel_sk (Jun 9, 2009)

Maybe they just don't want to make a P61L because it would make the more expensive surefire flashlights less attractive :shrug: (comparable lumen output for less money. Yes I own, there are other differences but the average customer doesn't care - he would look at the brightness ratings and price). My pure speculation .


----------



## Size15's (Jun 9, 2009)

The dilemma SureFire must be having is that aftermarket dropins such as Gene's designs are not 100% full compatible with the entire diversity of SureFire's "P60" host models.
This is why the P60L is what it is.
Higher output comes at a physical cost - acceptable to many with standard SureFire models but not acceptable to SureFire that has to consider its whole product range and customer base.

An key issue I see for SureFire is how best to update their incandescent WeaponLights to LED given the poor hosts that shock isolated bezels make.

I bet that SureFire are torn between 
a compromised P61L that can fit in everything they have ever made (with two exceptions), and having to package that P61L with a non-shock-isolated-bezel for improved performance...
and;
a dedicated high output LED bezel that can replace any/all of their existing incandescent bezels, including their WeaponLights.

It is a given that their KL5/KL5A is too big for this application.

The question I have is not when is the P61L going to be released - I don't believe it should be.
The question I have is when are SureFire going to release a high output version of the KL5A that can be used on any model previously hosting a P60.

Of course there is an elephant in the room that few on CPF care about but makes a significant impact when considering LED replacements for WeaponLight incandescents:
So-called LED 'white' light can not be filtered for IR-only Light.

SureFire have a significant WeaponLight market and believes strongly that this market sector should be supported. Creating an LED replacement for the P60 or P61, P90 is not what is needed.

SureFire concentrating resources on developing their "Vampire" IR/White Light products including replacement bezels is far more important IMHO as it provides the much needed ability to operate with 'night vision' from a single product - from a single bezel even.

I don't think the market for a high output LED alternative to the P61 is anything nearly as considerable compared to the market for selectable IR/White light products.

I also think that those after higher output LED flashlights will take advantage of the smaller brighter more feature-rich models SureFire already has and is more committed to continue developing.

At this point I am convinced SureFire need _not_ resource creating a P61L. Furthermore, I am convinced that if SureFire _do_ release a P61L those here who have been calling for it will likely not be impressed and find it lacking compared to the wonders that Gene has created and could well have in the future.


----------



## Federal LG (Jun 9, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> 2009 is half-way over, and we're still waiting for Surefire models that had a 2008 initial release date.
> 
> So I'd say they'll be released 5 minutes after Hell has frozen over... And the Devil starts handing out free snowcones.
> 
> (Obviously, I'm kidding. But honestly, no one knows for sure. And it's not a question of "when," but a question of "if." The UB2 was announced with a 2008 release date. But was discontinued before even getting into customers' hands).






Shame on you, Surefire...


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 10, 2009)

*To: Size15's ~*

You made some excellent points in your post above. Especially with regards to Surefire's weapon-lights, and the company looking ahead towards upgrading them with LEDs.

Ironically, Gene might outdo Surefire in that department as well... Not perfect, but it's an impressive start:

LINK ~ https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/232337


----------



## Size15's (Jun 10, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> *To: Size15's ~*
> 
> You made some excellent points in your post above. Especially with regards to Surefire's weapon-lights, and the company looking ahead towards upgrading them with LEDs.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, I don't see the selectable IR/white light feature in the link that you post?

My concluding point was that creating high output white light only lights is a diversion from what the US Military and increasing numbers of specialist Law Enforcement teams really need.

My other point was that an replacement bezel featuring high output LED white light is a more effective solution to updating WeaponLights than a drop-in due to the variation constraints.
I don't see from your link the ability to replace the likes of the Z32 on classic WeaponLights (Shotgun forends, MP5 forends etc) and the "M2" bezel on issued M95 WeaponLights.

Al


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 10, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification of your earlier points. 

Hopefully Surefire will make those items a practical reality in the very near future.


----------



## Force Attuned (Jun 10, 2009)

Wouldn't mind an LX1 with a red LED....


----------



## Size15's (Jun 10, 2009)

Force Attuned said:


> Wouldn't mind an LX1 with a red LED....


Ah the 'good old days' of the coloured L1's - I have/had (not seen it for a while) a green L1... 
Gone at the days of people actively harking after single coloured LED flashlights. 'tis a shame to be sure there seems not the demand for 'em.


----------



## Death's Head (Jun 12, 2009)

I called Surefire today and asked about the release date of the LX1.
I was told that LX1 will be release in December.


----------



## StandardBattery (Jun 12, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> *To: Size15's ~*
> 
> You made some excellent points in your post above. Especially with regards to Surefire's weapon-lights, and the company looking ahead towards upgrading them with LEDs.


 
*+1 *I think this is a pretty good view, one certainly Surefire has considered (and/or is considering). I'm not sure it's the only one, but judging from their recent output and the changing economic climate, I'd say they're in a tough spot, but that there may be a light at the end of the tunnel.



Death's Head said:


> I called Surefire today and asked about the release date of the LX1.
> I was told that LX1 will be release in December.


If you call back you do you get the same answer?


----------



## Death's Head (Jun 13, 2009)

StandardBattery said:


> If you call back you do you get the same answer?


I was thinking the same thing and was already going to call this Monday. The person was speaking with didn't know off the top of her head, and seemed to look up the info.


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 14, 2009)

Death's Head said:


> I was thinking the same thing and was already going to call this Monday. The person was speaking with didn't know off the top of her head, and seemed to look up the info.


 
Sadly, Surefire release dates are more like projected possibilities; rather than estimated realities. :thumbsdow

You will know for certain when a new Surefire model is released... when someone on CPF makes a topic about their brand new, just released, Surefire. (As was the case when the silver E1B finally came out).


----------



## Death's Head (Jun 15, 2009)

OK, just got off the phone with Surefire once again.
Here's the release dates on the two models that I asked about.
LX1 - Dec. 2009
Lx2 - End of June 2009


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Jun 15, 2009)

End of June for LX2, awesome. Hope the A2L comes out soon too. :thumbsup:


----------



## dcycleman (Jun 15, 2009)

Well, I would like to think that I can have some iota of self control and not buy another 150< flashlight, but when the LX2 comes out I highly doubt thats possible.


----------



## Wangstang (Jun 15, 2009)

Has Surefire released their LED M-series lamp assembly yet? I'm looking to upgrade the lamp head/bulb to LED on my M500A and my M900A but Surefire has been draging their feet on this product for about 3 years now.

Thanks
Wes


----------



## iapyx (Jun 23, 2009)

taking the thread back to the UB3 (and UA2):
last night I was thinking about a way SF may have designed the selector ring. Suddenly I thought: "of course, that's the way it's designed".

S.O.S. and strobe are on the outer ends of the selector ring. If I am correct the ring is used to switch the light from off to 1.SOS 2.level1 3.level2 etc No-one wants to have to pass the SOS in order to reach level 1, 2, 3, etc (I guess). So could it be that SF designed the light with a delay at SOS level so it won't switch on right away, giving one enough time to move the ring to level1? In this case one could operate the light without looking. 

Don't know if a delay at strobe level would be wise (in case one needs to defend against someone with bad intentions). Maybe Al knows, he has had the chance to play with a UA2 a long time ago.

This was in the middle of the night. Does that make me a flashaholic?


----------



## Size15's (Jun 23, 2009)

Meh... 'proof-of-concept' proto-types aren't much to base that sort of detailed analysis on in my experience. This is more obvious when things can be adjusted in the 'software' as these things can be adjusted far more easily than a mechanical change...


----------



## iapyx (Jun 23, 2009)

Size15's said:


> Meh... 'proof-of-concept' proto-types aren't much to base that sort of detailed analysis on in my experience. This is more obvious when things can be adjusted in the 'software' as these things can be adjusted far more easily than a mechanical change...


 
Thanks Al. I guess we wait (what else) till either one (UA2 or UB3) comes out.


----------



## KevinL (Jul 7, 2009)

Hmm, slipping dates and no more UA2 (yup, I'm catching up after being gone for nearly a year).... OTOH it is a good thing, I am not tempted to spend, nor replace the awesome U2 (classic 5W, 18650, low serial)... :thumbsup:

Looks like I chose well in the days of the U2. Still the best light I've ever had bar none. I was thinking the UA2 or specifically UB2 might pip my U2, but seeing that none is forthcoming will ensure the U2 lives long and phosphors 

I notice a lot of the great classics are there and won't change, that's good too. L4 was/is/will be awesome. UB3/M3L are a bit long for pocket carry - I draw the line at 6". I'm not the target market for their specialty color/IR lights and I admit that. Now, if only I could cure the Titan T1A temptation, my wallet would be home free


----------



## nanotech17 (Jul 7, 2009)

i wonder how's the U2 performance with this type of emitter - http://www.luminus.com/stuff/content...lumination.pdf


----------



## Search (Jul 8, 2009)

I haven't found anyone also interested in the AZ2, but if anyone cares..

I got an email saying it's projected release date was late 09  They said it was still in development.

It was in a SWAT movie I saw the other day though.


----------



## Optik49 (Jul 8, 2009)

_Maybe sooner. I was thinking maybe one new light every couple of months. I think the new A2 is next, but who know for sure._


----------



## Bushman5 (Jul 8, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Thanks, not sure how I missed the part regarding the *P61L* listed as TBD (To Be Determined).
> 
> I'm sorry, but that's just freaking ridiculous. Surefire has definitely done some things right. But the P61L isn't one of them. It was one thing when you had to buy one of Gene's handmade M60 drop-ins. They cost a pretty penny, and weren't readily available whenever you wanted one. A P61L back then would have made sense. A production LED drop-in that could compete with Gene's M60, a great idea! Production means more supply, and at a lower cost per unit since each drop-in isn't handmade. A great idea indeed...
> 
> ...



AMEN!!!!! :twothumbs


----------



## Size15's (Jul 8, 2009)

Search said:


> ...the AZ2... was in a SWAT movie I saw the other day though.


You saw a proto-type AZ2 in a "SWAT movie"?!
Please share details! (Add it to our long-running Flashlights in movies/tv shows thread)

Al
P.S.
I have to say I'm not that convinced until I see it for myself or see screen-captures posted


----------



## digitaleos (Jul 8, 2009)

Size15's said:


> You saw a proto-type AZ2 in a "SWAT movie"?!
> Please share details! (Add it to our long-running Flashlights in movies/tv shows thread)
> 
> Al
> ...




Al,
I'm not positive, but I think the video he is referring to is the Surefire SWAT video, it can be found here http://www.surefire.com/video-channel .


----------



## Kiessling (Jul 8, 2009)

I am really looking forward to the AZ2. Really. But I have patience.


----------



## Optik49 (Jul 8, 2009)

_SO.............which light is next?........:shrug:_


----------



## Search (Jul 9, 2009)

digitaleos said:


> Al,
> I'm not positive, but I think the video he is referring to is the Surefire SWAT video, it can be found here http://www.surefire.com/video-channel .



It is. 

I was trying not to say it but my thinking was that if they have a working version then it shouldn't be too far. At the same time, if that SWAT team had the light for other reasons, besides marketing in a "SureFire" movie, then it could be operator testing.

Hopefully, they are developing an idea on how to make sure the small leds and largers ones have the same tint.

BTW, I have no patience. I'm trying to make a decision on if I should wait for it or go ahead and get a Z2 with M60. I only have till next April, so I'm hoping it makes it out at the end of 09'.


----------



## Size15's (Jul 9, 2009)

One would hope that designers of a new "Tactical" Light would field-test a reasonable number of samples/proto-types with the target user groups it is intended for.
Certainly SureFire have a strong history of getting new concepts into the hands of users in the Military & Law Enforcement communities.

It's also reasonable to expect a marketing department to obtain materials for marketing new products.


----------



## outersquare (Jul 9, 2009)

still wanna know when M3L comes out


----------



## Monocrom (Jul 9, 2009)

outersquare said:


> still wanna know when M3L comes out


 
A big *+1 *on that. 

It's nice being able to see the upgraded M3 bezel in Surefire's catalog.... Problem is, I've been doing nothing but seeing it on paper all this time. 

When you're as popular as Surefire, you don't put unreleased products into your catalog. Or if you do, put them into a "Future Release" section of the catalog. 

Imagine a new flashaholic reading through the '09 catalog for the first time.... To help the poor guy out, you got to tell him to ignore some of the items in the '08 and '09 catalogs.

Seriously, if I did such an unprofessional job as the person in charge of putting out the yearly catalogs, my @$$ would get fired in a heartbeat. :thumbsdow

(Okay, rant over).


----------



## sORe-EyEz (Jul 9, 2009)

i wonder if the delay for AZ2 could be due to feedback from the specific users in trial tests, needing tweeks? :shrug:


----------



## cue003 (Jul 9, 2009)

Search said:


> I haven't found anyone also interested in the AZ2, but if anyone cares..
> 
> I got an email saying it's projected release date was late 09  They said it was still in development.
> 
> It was in a SWAT movie I saw the other day though.



I will for sure be getting the AZ2... More than likely I will get 2 of them.


----------



## sORe-EyEz (Jul 9, 2009)

Size15's said:


> It's also reasonable to expect a marketing department to obtain materials for marketing new products.


 
we know how some companies copy others ideas, the last thing Surefire customers or fans want is another company rolling out a product in SureFire's catalog the previous year with very similiar features & costing much less. :shakehead

well, that's the rant from most mall ninjas. :duck:

release dates be damned, i will see the new lights when i see them at my local dealer. no pre-orders for me.


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Jul 9, 2009)

Any news on the A2L?


----------



## Optik49 (Jul 13, 2009)

CandlePowerForumsUser said:


> Any news on the A2L?


----------



## Monocrom (Jul 14, 2009)

Optik49 said:


>


 
Something tells me you're going to need a Mega Jumbo bag of popcorn.


----------



## Death's Head (Jul 14, 2009)

Last info I got when I called Surefire was August 20.


----------



## cue003 (Jul 14, 2009)

I am curious to see when the new lights get introduced how many of them get new output ratings.

A good sign i would think of whether or not the lights are close is if the dealers themselves can actually place buy orders from Surefire.


----------



## prime77 (Jul 24, 2009)

Looks like another new light is up on the SF website. 





Looks like a new KX3 head on on of the new G2L-FYL bodies. Three output levels 115 / 45 / 15 lumens and a UI similar to the two stage E-Series lights but with a another level. I wonder if they will have the KX3 head available separately some day?


----------



## angelofwar (Jul 24, 2009)

prime77 said:


> Looks like another new light is up on the SF website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
WOW! ...I'm really liking the new look of the KL3's though...wonder if they're doing the same with the KL5??? Well, at least the KL3 now has variable out put...and 41 hours at 15 lumens on the 3 cell light...Nice Find!


----------



## steveG (Jul 24, 2009)

Hmmm, interesting. My dad is a volunteer fireman (close to 25 years)... He's been using the Inova T2 I gave him for Christmas last year and loving it. I've been trying to think of a good replacement... maybe this is it.


----------



## FredericoFreire (Jul 24, 2009)

Since there's G2's and G3's with the new KX3 led head, it should work fine with 2x RCR-123.


----------



## gsxrac (Jul 24, 2009)

2 cell and a 3 cell! Looks like a wonderful glovebox/truck light too. Something that wouldnt be as easily lost if ya dropped it. I Think i'll grab one (or a few) in due time. Still rather see an invictus :mecry:Or an A2L or an AZ2. But hey we can complain but so much. Theyve released 3 new lights now that werent even mentioned at SHOT or in the catalogs. Plus weve already gotten a T1A and an LX2 out of em!


----------



## Monocrom (Jul 25, 2009)

gsxrac said:


> They've released 3 new lights now that weren't even mentioned at SHOT or in the catalogs.


 
Yeah, that's great... We're getting lights from Surefire we never knew about, but still waiting for them to release most of the models mentioned back at the start of 2008. :shakehead

Still, that new KX3 head looks somewhat similar to the design of the head slated for the M3L. Hopefully this means that that light will be out before PK's grand-children start releasing _their _designs for Surefire lights.


----------



## gsxrac (Jul 25, 2009)

OMG Miniature PK's? Can the world handle it? I know my wallet cant if they follow in their grandfathers footsteps


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 25, 2009)

prime77 said:


> Looks like another new light is up on the SF website.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'll take one in HA Natural to compliment my C2.


----------



## Federal LG (Jul 25, 2009)

Monocrom said:


> Yeah, that's great... We're getting lights from Surefire we never knew about, but still waiting for them to release most of the models mentioned back at the start of 2008. :shakehead



I´m waiting too...

Specially for the LX1.


----------



## oxologic (Jul 27, 2009)

Anyone have any idea for the L1X compares to the E1L and E1B?


----------



## Monocrom (Jul 27, 2009)

oxologic said:


> Anyone have any idea for the Lx1 compares to the E1L and E1B?


 
It hasn't been released yet.


----------



## radu1976 (Jul 29, 2009)

I am wondering if the LX1 will keep the same optics - i would be happy - or it will come changed with a reflector ?!


----------



## DimeRazorback (Jul 29, 2009)

*Re: Surefire’s 2009 New Lights Discussion - Part II*

I imaging it would stay the same.


----------



## Force Attuned (Oct 30, 2009)

*Re: Surefire’s 2009 New Lights Discussion - Part II*

Is the $260 price tag confirmed for the A2Z??


----------



## DimeRazorback (Oct 30, 2009)

*Re: Surefire’s 2009 New Lights Discussion - Part II*

Where is that information coming from??


----------



## Force Attuned (Oct 30, 2009)

DimeRazorback said:


> Where is that information coming from??


 

Pre-order prices from various retailers


----------



## DimeRazorback (Oct 30, 2009)

Who really knows.

That would be the price that surefire has told the retailers, which could or couldn't change when it is actually released.

It's a waiting game :devil:


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 31, 2009)

DimeRazorback said:


> ... It's a waiting game :devil:


 
I know!


----------



## DM51 (Oct 31, 2009)

Folks, Monocrom has grown that beard during the time this thread has been running. 

2009 is nearly up, which means the 2007 range of SF lights should soon be hitting the shelves. We live in exciting times, lol.


----------



## DimeRazorback (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm sure I will understand a little better in a couple of years when I am still awaiting a certain light.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 1, 2009)

DM51 said:


> We live in exciting times, lol.


 
Slight variation of the ancient curse that originated in China. . . 

"May you live in interesting times." 

Oh well, until Surefire catches up to their own prototypes, we've still got Milky.


----------



## txgp17 (Nov 1, 2009)

I'm still waiting to hear about the P61L

Looks like Gene Malkoff will be getting more of my *$$$* before Surefire does.


----------



## zven (Nov 2, 2009)

Do we even know for sure if SureFire are still planning to release a P61L? Wasn't it dropped from the 2009 catalog? Anyone heard from SureFire on it?


----------



## pulstar (Dec 13, 2009)

Are UA2 and UB2 scrapped for good? And, will U3B stay the same or they'll transfer the focusing ability on it?

A few days ago i discovered UA2 and got mad about it. But after a few hours digging informations i discovered that it's already discounted. What a dissapoinment!:shakehead I've already had a "battleplan" for raising required funds for it. Daaaaamn... :huh::shakehead


----------



## Tempest UK (Dec 13, 2009)

pulstar said:


> Are UA2 and UB2 scrapped for good? And, will U3B stay the same or they'll transfer the focusing ability on it?



As I understand it the UA2 has been scrapped and the UB2 became the UB3. As far as the specifics of the UB3 itself, features can and do change before release. I wouldn't want to draw any conclusions about the UB3 at this point.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## KROMATICS (Dec 15, 2009)

I can't wait until 2010 when Surefire renames it the UB4 and never releases it.


----------



## Monocrom (Dec 15, 2009)

KROMATICS said:


> I can't wait until 2010 when Surefire renames it the UB4 and never releases it.


 
Good news!

UB4 is out! Just in time for Christmas! 

Just a couple of changes though ... It's inca. instead of LED, the head is a bit wider than expected, no pocket clip (darn), and it's HAIII instead of black. And oh yeah, it's only a single-output light. I also think they renamed it.

Click on the LINK for a pic of the new UB4! :huh:

LINK: http://www.mindyourfingers.co.uk/pi-237-1a.jpg


----------



## Force Attuned (Dec 15, 2009)

KROMATICS said:


> I can't wait until 2010 when Surefire renames it the UB4 and never releases it.


 
Or the wait might be more then worth it.


----------



## lemonade (Dec 23, 2009)

I'm pretty fed up of waiting now, being tempted by other manufacturers offering twice the lumens for less than £100!


----------



## E__WOK (Dec 31, 2009)

*Re: Surefire?s 2009 New Lights Discussion - Part II*



KROMATICS said:


> I can't wait until 2010 when Surefire renames it the UB4 and never releases it.



I'm holding off for the UB40 version.


----------



## Rocketman (Jan 1, 2010)

Kiessling said:


> If the beam of the M3TL is similar to the E-Series TIR it will be a Sci-Fi weapon.



You know, there is totally a need for such a thing.

Now before you think this is a joke, listen to this. I work as a C.O. in a prison and there are many times when I really need to get the attention of the picket operator. How can I say this... _really_ need? A few C.O.'s have brought in lasers to do this. Well, I disagree with this because I feel this is dangerous. Lasers ruin eyes. So what I'm saying is, there is a need for a really bright flashlight with a tight beam for signaling. Simply, signaling. Must be bright! I have done this with my Strion LED and my Scorpion LED but they are not really bright enough. And, it can't be a huge flashlight, a signaling light should not, IMO, be large.

So, yeah. A Sci-Fi weapon. I love Sci-Fi.


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 1, 2010)

Rocketman said:


> You know, there is totally a need for such a thing.
> 
> Now before you think this is a joke, listen to this. I work as a C.O. in a prison and there are many times when I really need to get the attention of the picket operator. How can I say this... _really_ need? A few C.O.'s have brought in lasers to do this. Well, I disagree with this because I feel this is dangerous. Lasers ruin eyes. So what I'm saying is, there is a need for a really bright flashlight with a tight beam for signaling. Simply, signaling. Must be bright! I have done this with my Strion LED and my Scorpion LED but they are not really bright enough. And, it can't be a huge flashlight, a signaling light should not, IMO, be large.
> 
> So, yeah. A Sci-Fi weapon. I love Sci-Fi.


 
Here's something that already exists that might be perfect. It's a laser that puts out a line instead of a point.

LINK: http://www.lighthound.com/Rescue-Laser-Emergency-Signaling-Laser-Flare_p_1581.html


----------



## 276 (Jan 2, 2010)

I have one of those, there great.


----------



## iapyx (Jan 20, 2010)

Is there any SF news?
Shot show has started the 19th and today is the 20th. 
There MUST be some news.
Anyone??


----------



## THE_dAY (Jan 20, 2010)

So far just this:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3243863&postcount=39


----------



## Monocrom (Jan 20, 2010)

THE_dAY said:


> So far just this:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3243863&postcount=39


 
A production-ready AA light from Surefire? . . . Maybe when Hell freezes over, and Satan starts giving out free cherry-flavored snowcones.


----------



## THE_dAY (Jan 20, 2010)

LOL exactly. I'm still waiting for the Optimus, here's a pic someone took of PK showing it off at SHOT "2008".


----------



## Bucky (Jan 20, 2010)

THE_dAY said:


> So far just this:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3243863&postcount=39



And this:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3243873&postcount=41


----------



## Size15's (Jan 20, 2010)

Lets start a new thread for this new year -
SureFire's 2010 New Lights Discussion


----------

