# Merged Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch Threads



## yaesumofo (Jan 28, 2008)

http://www.i4u.com/article14324.html

This thing looks pretty darn bright.
Yaesumofo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsV3-IvS8UA


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## MikeLip (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*

Awwwwww YEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## sparc (Jan 28, 2008)

*Light that starts fires...link from Engadget*

Link


> At 4100 lumens, The Torch is 100 lumens more powerful than The Polarion Helios, the former most powerful flashlight. Apparently Wicked Lasers has The Torch currently in review at the Guinness Book of World Records.
> 
> Measurements of the torch are 57mm x 230mm. The battery lasts for 15min. The 4100 lumens can be adjusted via a high efficiency reflector. The casing is made from aerospace grade aluminum.
> 
> The Torch sells for *$299.99* at the Wicked Lasers *site*.


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## yaesumofo (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*

Hell it is only $299.00

Frys egg too.
I seem to remember a little CPF flashlight which would catch things on fire......
Buy this is somthing else.
..Yaesumofo




MikeLip said:


> Awwwwww YEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## jufam44 (Jan 28, 2008)

*Wicked Laser's Torch*

Anyone seen this? Seems like a blatant Mac-ripoff. Any oppinions?


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## MikeLip (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*

I've been thinking about building something like this but pretty much lack the inclination after a days work. So a turnkey paper-setter-on-firer would be ideal  And Wicked would be among the top choices for the first company I'd buy it from.


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## Rzr800 (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Wicked Lasers Flashlight, 4100 lumens*

Good price or not for what it is?


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## TOOCOOL (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Wicked Lasers Flashlight, 4100 lumens*

What a rip off on the name :sigh:


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## Hallis (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*

I've got 2 lights that can cook eggs and set fires.  

$299 isnt a bad price for a turnkey unit. And if WL stands behind this like they do their lasers then it'll have good support. 

Shane


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## BillG (Jan 28, 2008)

*Light that starts fires...link from Engadget*

this is the link to a pretty HOT light!!

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/28/the-torch-why-illuminate-when-you-can-incinerate/


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## 65535 (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Light that starts fires...link from Engadget*

I move for the deletion of this, these lights have been popular on the custom track for a long time, it's only getting more press because wicked lasers has ripped off the design and made a turn key operation out of it, if you search for USL you will find many long threads on the topic.

Although a lot of people will be happy, good USL parts are hard to come by these days.


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## meuge (Jan 28, 2008)

*Flashlights get slashdot attention*

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/01/28/1947200&from=rss

4100L hotwire, anyone?


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## Stereodude (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Light that starts fires...link from Engadget*

Totally lame that they think it's the worlds brightest flashlight. :thumbsdow

If they only knew.


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## smokelaw1 (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*

Anybody else having trouble getting onto Wicked's website?


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## Stereodude (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*



smokelaw1 said:


> Anybody else having trouble getting onto Wicked's website?


It's been slashdotted.


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## MikeLip (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Light that starts fires...link from Engadget*



65535 said:


> I move for the deletion of this, these lights have been popular on the custom track for a long time, it's only getting more press because wicked lasers has ripped off the design and made a turn key operation out of it, if you search for USL you will find many long threads on the topic.
> 
> Although a lot of people will be happy, good USL parts are hard to come by these days.



I don't see a problem with it. I'm not going to build one, but I might go ahead and *buy* one! But I'll let someone else go first.


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## MikeSalt (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Light that starts fires...link from Engadget*

The wicked lasers flashlight is just a poor copy of Mac's "The Torch".

Besides, at 4100 lumens, it gets beaten by Mac's later creation, yet to be officially named...

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/147981


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## MikeLip (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Light that starts fires...link from Engadget*



MikeSalt said:


> The wicked lasers flashlight is just a poor copy of Mac's "The Torch".
> 
> Besides, at 4100 lumens, it gets beaten by Mac's later creation, yet to be officially named...
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/147981



Will he make this things for a slob off the street like me? Or did he just build it for his own amusement? I've been here a while now and I've sen a LOT of incredible one-offs. But making something like this available to anyone with a Paypal is a Good Thing if you ask me!


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## tussery (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*



MikeLip said:


> I've been thinking about building something like this but pretty much lack the inclination after a days work. So a turnkey paper-setter-on-firer would be ideal  And Wicked would be among the top choices for the first company I'd buy it from.


Even with all the numerous reports of their lasers not measuring up to what they are advertised as. I wouldn't be surprised if the light only put out 3000 bulb lumens.


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## JosephK (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*

The Slashdot article mentioned that they're going for a Guiness record? Not sure how they could take it on account of brightness alone.

Must be brightness a mass manufactured light or something.


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## KeyGrip (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Light that starts fires...link from Engadget*

In light of Mac's post, I'm changing this to be less negative toward the Wicked light. I guess they're not theiving $%#Y$*&#ers after all.


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## MikeLip (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*



tussery said:


> Even with all the numerous reports of their lasers not measuring up to what they are advertised as. I wouldn't be surprised if the light only put out 3000 bulb lumens.



In the reviews I've found of Wicked Lasers, whenever they have actually had their beam power measured, they seem to pretty much live up to the stated output. Perhaps my memory is faulty. But it still seems to me that 3000 bulb lumens is rather a lot, even if you're not inclined to take Wickeds word for it! 

I still want one.


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## Stereodude (Jan 28, 2008)

*Re: Anybody seen the Wicked 4100 Lumen Torch?*



JosephK said:


> Must be brightness a mass manufactured light or something.


FWIW Ra (maker of the Maxablaster) said that Guinness contacted him about it, but told him it wasn't eligible because it's not mass produced.


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## cmacclel (Jan 28, 2008)

Guys thanks for the Support! :thumbsup:

The Wicked Lasers Torch was based after my design with permission. I'm supposed to receive a sample light this week.

Mac


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## Thujone (Jan 28, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> Guys thanks for the Support! :thumbsup:
> 
> The Wicked Lasers Torch was based after my design with permission. I'm supposed to receive a sample light this week.
> 
> Mac



Wow, that is good news, I was worried they thieved your work!

Guess that means we can actually think about snagging one.


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## cmacclel (Jan 28, 2008)

I have nothing to do with the advertising or "brighter than this or brighter than that" comments so please leave me out of that discussion 

Also If things go well look for some more powerful designs in the future.

Mac


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## BVH (Jan 28, 2008)

Mac, I'm really glad you gave them permission to use the name!

My Xeray 50 Watt produces 5800 Lumens so their blunt claim is not correct. Maybe they should say most powerful incandescent flashlight. Oh, wait, my Larryk14 puts out 14000 Lumens so that doesn't work either.

How about worlds brightest, commercially produced Maglite-sized flashlight. Maybe that would do it.


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## MikeLip (Jan 28, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> Guys thanks for the Support! :thumbsup:
> 
> The Wicked Lasers Torch was based after my design with permission. I'm supposed to receive a sample light this week.
> 
> Mac



That rocks! All right!


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## mcmc (Jan 28, 2008)

And I hope that you are being 'taken care of' with the given permission and design! That's pretty cool, really =)


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## Patriot (Jan 28, 2008)

I too was a bit irked at the name until I saw that Mac gave them permission. The "most powerful" of course is completely lame. Honesty in marketing is becoming less and less common. 

IMO, the price is a little bit high but that partially depends on what's inside of it. I guess we will know when someone purchases on.


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## tebore (Jan 28, 2008)

Well the price is right. It's bright and only double that of a premium Mag85 Build.


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## jrv (Jan 29, 2008)

Run time is 15 minutes, meaning a 4C discharge rate on the batteries. What kind of batteries are they using?


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## TigerhawkT3 (Jan 29, 2008)

I see they've got "Wicked Lasers" laser-etched around the circumference of the bezel. Does anyone else think Mag's gonna sue their pants off?

It's the world's brightest flashlight just like the Titan is the world's only fully-variable-output flashlight.


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## KeyGrip (Jan 29, 2008)

Mac, I'm glad this is the product of a deal, and not them ripping you off. I should edit my previous post. I have to ask, however, do you think a mass produced light marketed as a firestarter might attract some negative attention to what we do here? I only bring this up because part of the general public's negative attitude toward knife use and carry is generated by irresponsible advertising put out _by_ knife companies trying to make a quick buck by selling to Mall Ninjas. Thoughts?


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## Timaxe (Jan 29, 2008)

Mac, I'm glad to see that you approved of them using your design and name. I hope you're compensated properly for it.


But that being said, I find it alarming that everyone in the world will want to buy this new "toy". While the free press for the product is great, I think it gives people the wrong idea about the light.

When us CPF'ers build a light, we have some fun, but we also recognize that it shouldn't be misused and we appreciate it as a tool. Now that it is competitively priced to where the average high school kid could probably buy it and play with it, I'm afraid that they will misuse the torch - their actions could have serious implications on the rest of the community.

Now though, I may need to build a bigger light...my Mag5761 seems to be almost obsoleted by the newly enhanced availability of the Torch...


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## JB (Jan 29, 2008)

Just tried accessing their site and got the message: "Server overloaded, please try again in a few minutes..."

Man, is this thing selling like hotcakes or what?

Anyway, glad they got Mac's permission and are doing this the right way. So Mac are you happy to see your design (or a derivative of it) in the mass market?


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## mdocod (Jan 29, 2008)

they got slashdotted, and they didn't buy enough bandwidth. oops 

hey I just noticed that this light has the company name written up around the bezel... watch out! Mag lawyers gona jump all over that!


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2008)

Sigh....Guiness record? Let's hope they at least check this forum first...they can start with this thread where The Torch isn't even in the top 5. Not to mention they are using an AWR rerating formula adapted from Welch Allyn's bulb URL formula that has little correlation to estimating bulb lumens in Osram lamps. I also like how they claim it is 100 lumens brighter than "the Polarion Helios, the former most powerful flashlight" ROFL...what idiots.

All due credit to Mac, but I think this community has together made collaborative efforts at discovering various hotwire bulbs....going back to Genseng, Newbie, and a slew of others working on the USL, etc. There was never a lot of significant originality in design with these lights, like I have seen with other projects created here at CPF. I'm sure they changed just enough with the light's body and head so Maglite won't have a chance of making any claims. It would be interesting to see what quality and brand/size of cells they are using, although their website listing says it is a 12 x 2/3A 1500mAh pack....so most likely Elite cells which are not going to have it last 15 minutes....and method/device for charging not mentioned.

Count me on the cynical side.


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## Empyfree (Jan 29, 2008)

Not been able to get onto their site yet. I saw a link to this flashlight on the Gizmodo website. Slightly worrying that their main focus is that it can burn things, My main reason for buying a ultra-powerfull flashlight is to shock normal Mag owners with the increase over stock lumens. 

The comments on the Gizmodo site are quite funny, people remembered Mac's video's of the original Torch, and were sticking up for the original! Glad to hear it's "official" and not a ripp-off

I presume it's a complete new body/head, and not a mod like the torch was? Is it a custom battery pack (hopefully NIMH for safety!) 

Did anybody see the site before it went down? are they selling this as a turnkey package? charger included? I might have to get one just to keep it out of the hands of the public!

All that being said, are you (Mac) still going to make similar custom items? Or are you moving onto bigger and better things? I'd rather have an original Mac-Custom anyday!


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2008)

Their site comes right up for me with annoying youtube video blasting crappy drum roll music.

I now see it comes with one of those universal chargers, so this is a rebranded "Mac package." From their page: * * Batteries and Universal Charger included with purchase. 

Technical Specs 
*​*Name: The Torch Lamp 
Output: 4100 Lumens with an Adjustable High Efficiency Reflector 
Dimensions: 57mm x 230mm 
Power Supply: 12x2/3A 1500mAh Cells 14.4V
Battery Lifetime: 15 Minutes 
Casing: Aerospace Grade Aluminum 
Tail switch: On/Off Button 
Warranty: 6 Months*​


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## BenjiBot (Jan 29, 2008)

*QUOTE* Guiness record? Let's hope they at least check this forum first...they can start with this thread where The Torch isn't even in the top 5. Not to mention they are using an AWR rerating formula adapted from Welch Allyn's bulb URL formula that has little correlation to estimating bulb lumens in Osram lamps. I also like how they claim it is 100 lumens brighter than "the Polarion Helios, the former most powerful flashlight" ROFL...what idiots. *QUOTE* 



Are some/any of the lights featured in your link commercially available? That's usually a Guinness stipulation for a record of this nature. I also know that the Helios is not a record holder, but was/is under consideration for World's most powerful hand-held battery-powered flashlight (commercially available)


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2008)

> Are some/any of the lights featured in your link commercially available? That's usually a Guinness stipulation for a record of this nature. I also know that the Helios is not a record holder, but was/is under consideration for World's most powerful hand-held battery-powered flashlight (commercially available)


They could be if any number of us who have made brighter versions contacted someone to sell them commercially. I hear the guy who sold the "Pet Rocks" has a new commercial slot open.

Where exactly do you see that there is a Guiness record on the World's Brightest Flashlight, and that it must be ONLY commercially available? Pray Tell.

My main point is the 15 min run time for a 14.4V 12 cell pack of Elite 1500mAh 2/3A NiMH cells is patently false. In addition the 4100 Lumen figure is a gross distortion of reality, with *ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS IN FACT* for making the claim for a commercial product. I have already proven in my destructive bulb testing thread how lumen projections using AWR's spreadsheet derived from WA website formulas are wildly inaccurate.

I don't care who buys or likes Wicked Lasers. I may even buy one of these and disect it with full images. The 14.4V is certainly not even close to the output of the 15.6V model. Neither is close to other bulb combinations.


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## BenjiBot (Jan 29, 2008)

I work for GWR. There is no current record for most powerful flashlight. If any were under consideration they would be shoved in to an integrating sphere and measured two or three times (not sure of the exact procedure, but it absolutely would not be based on a manufacturer's claim). Runtime would also be a consideration.


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## Thujone (Jan 29, 2008)

Timaxe said:


> But that being said, I find it alarming that everyone in the world will want to buy this new "toy". While the free press for the product is great, I think it gives people the wrong idea about the light.



If you want to burn stuff $300 will buy a lot of diesel and matches


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## Stereodude (Jan 29, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> Where exactly do you see that there is a Guiness record on the World's Brightest Flashlight, and that it must be ONLY commercially available? Pray Tell.


FWIW, Ra (maker of the Maxablaster) said that Guinness contacted him about the Maxablaster and he was told they only considered mass produced flashlights for the record.


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## BenjiBot (Jan 29, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> FWIW, Ra (maker of the Maxablaster) said that Guinness contacted him about the Maxablaster and he was told they only considered mass produced flashlights for the record.




Yes, that would have been me. 

Just for clarification, “commercially available” was a prerequisite because we wanted to feature flashlights on a Consumer Technology spread in the 2009 edition – inclusion on these pages means it has to be for sale, usually in quantities. 

However, I think that some of the mods found on this (and other) site(s) are really amazing and very innovative, so I hope we can feature some of the home-made lights that some of you guys have made (such as Ra’s Maxablaster). The only problem with this is obtaining third-party verification of output, runtime, etc., preferably from a recognisable institution. I need to look into it and clear it with a few people, but I really hope we can do it.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2008)

BenjiBot said:


> I work for GWR. There is no current record for most powerful flashlight. If any were under consideration they would be shoved in to an integrating sphere and measured two or three times (not sure of the exact procedure, but it absolutely would not be based on a manufacturer's claim). Runtime would also be a consideration.



Taking you at your word, I just did not see anything listed as a commercial requirement on their website, and as you said there is not even a category for anything about flashlights that I could find and GWR. 

So many of the records I remember reading about with Guiness were personal performance activities, and didn't seem to convey that things had to be at a professional or commercial level.

Again my main points on innacuracies stand, and very few people take the time to understand how hotwire lumen outputs are obtained....let alone the distinction between bulb and torch lumens.

Seeing Wicked Lasers toss around the Helios or this Mac Torch clone as the world's brightest, with a suggestion of an indirect GWR "connection/endorsement" and the ridiculous 4100 lumens hype is all inaccurate. But since when did yet another Communist China company that does whatever the hell they want with no concern for truth in advertising or U.S. patent laws care about something as silly as providing accurate claims or sensible safety measures when it comes to making money?


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## BenjiBot (Jan 29, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> So many of the records I remember reading about with Guiness were personal performance activities, and didn't seem to convey that things had to be at a professional or commercial level.



This is true, a lot of Guinness World Records are about personal achievement. But not all of them – Fastest production car, for example, or Furthest manmade object from Earth, to name just two. See post#46 for why commercial availability was required for this particular flashlight record




LuxLuthor said:


> Seeing Wicked Lasers toss around the Helios or this Mac Torch clone as the world's brightest, with a suggestion of an indirect GWR "connection/endorsement" and the ridiculous 4100 lumens hype is all inaccurate.



Agreed. The inference should not have been made at this time.


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## cmacclel (Jan 29, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> The 14.4V is certainly not even close to the output of the 15.6V model. Neither is close to other bulb combinations.



Sorry but there has to be something wrong with that 14.4v pack. There is no way 1 cell is going to jump the output 3x. I have built them both and yes the 1 extra cell added a few hundred more lumens but nothing like shown in the pictures.

Mac


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## gottawearshades (Jan 29, 2008)

So, I guess you wouldn't want to use this light to look for the car keys you just dropped under the seat.

Wowsa. I thought people around here were joking when they talked about using lights to start fires.

Completely clueless question here: Can you say light over a certain number of lumen will ignite paper?


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## KeyGrip (Jan 29, 2008)

gottawearshades said:


> Can you say light over a certain number of lumen will ignite paper?



Don't know if there is a magic number that has been established, but you'd have to use an incandescent lamp to do it. On the safe side, anywere north of 1000 lumens should do it. It also depends on the paper. Black newsprint goes up easier than white cardstock.


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## cmacclel (Jan 29, 2008)

gottawearshades said:


> So, I guess you wouldn't want to use this light to look for the car keys you just dropped under the seat.
> 
> Wowsa. I thought people around here were joking when they talked about using lights to start fires.
> 
> Completely clueless question here: Can you say light over a certain number of lumen will ignite paper?



I bought one of the original "Torches" I made up to my camp in NH. I hid the light on the floor in the corner so no one would touch it. 

I went out 4x4'in with a few buddies and by the time we returned it was dark. I go into the trailer and grab the "Torch" and camera to take some beamshots. When I go to test the light. it lights up and then gets yellowish like what typically happens when the battery's are dead  My wife and step daughter needed something in the shed and burnt the batteries out on me!!

So yes you can still use this stlye light as a light but keep things 12" away from the business end 

Mac


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## SaVaGe (Jan 29, 2008)

Every now and then i go to Laser forums just like here they are also deeeeeep into lasers. One thing about Wicked Lasers, They dont have a good reputation, ie BAD SERVICE, Company. Pls. dont beat the messenger.

http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?board=b_companies


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## NickelPlate (Jan 29, 2008)

SaVaGe said:


> Every now and then i go to Laser forums just like here they are also deeeeeep into lasers. One thing about Wicked Lasers, They dont have a good reputation, ie BAD SERVICE, Company. Pls. dont beat the messenger.
> 
> http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?board=b_companies



Thanks for this. I was thinking about getting a nice laser but after reading some of the threads over there, I think I'll avoid WL.

NP


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## Hallis (Jan 29, 2008)

Meh, You can build a Mag623 for less than $300. Or definately buy one used on the forums for less. I wonder though how well it's made and what the dimmensions of the body are.

Shane


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## Fatvod (Jan 29, 2008)

WHOA WHOA WHOA! I come from lasercommunity and I support Wicked one hundred percent. If something goes wrong you can damn well bet they will fix it. FREE! Customer support is superb. If they are out of a certain model when you order. Then you get upgraded to the next!! Also Wicked Bucks have gotten many people lasers for free!!!! And to top it off they give you a 100 no IR leakage gauruntee(Spelling?) I have 2 lasers from wicked and one of them was friggin free!!! I have never had a problem and neither has my friend who has bought from them! Sorry to rant but Savage I dunno where u got ure info. Almost forgot. They give u a free pair of laser protecting goggles with every purchase. YOU CANT GO WRONG!!!! Not trying to advertise just trying to correct those doubts. 

Also Thujone I like your name as I have just recently tried absinthe.


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## DM51 (Jan 29, 2008)

SaVaGe, Fatvod, knock it off.

Keep this thread on topic. It is not about lasers, it is about a flashlight.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> Sorry but there has to be something wrong with that 14.4v pack. There is no way 1 cell is going to jump the output 3x. I have built them both and yes the 1 extra cell added a few hundred more lumens but nothing like shown in the pictures.
> 
> Mac



I agree it is not anywhere on that magnitude of a jump. This is the ONLY thing I have seen with the same bulb that gives some idea of increase performance proportional to voltage. Then you have to try and map over Lux to Bulb Lumens, and determine state of battery pack charge which drops fast without regulation.





I did the tests 3 times for this bulb on 3 different nights, and correlation was VERY tight. So, I think if you use my column "J" titled "Percent Increase Measured Lux (from default)" as a more accurate prediction of increased percent bulb lumens over Osram's default value, it would be more realstic. Then you have to measure your comparison Vbulb between 14.4 and 15.6V setups to map over to this chart.

Funny story about light already been used. Yeah if you want an outrageous fire starter, you need FRESHLY charged.


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## magudaman (Jan 30, 2008)

So if I'm doing the math right that bulb is only 75 watts or so? So I guess it is just very focused hu? I am working on a 600w handheld light running at 28v. I guess mine is just not quite as focused. Their system seems to run on that old burning bugs with the magnifying glass thing hu?


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## Flashanator (Jan 31, 2008)

didn'tsee this thread.

WOW LUX!! I was looking at your insane maglites. Nice man.

When is the *Vaporizer* ready? can't wait*. *:naughty:
Can you tell us what its specs will be?


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## cmacclel (Jan 31, 2008)

magudaman said:


> So if I'm doing the math right that bulb is only 75 watts or so? So I guess it is just very focused hu? I am working on a 600w handheld light running at 28v. I guess mine is just not quite as focused. Their system seems to run on that old burning bugs with the magnifying glass thing hu?





14v x 9.7 amps = 135 watts


Mac


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## cmacclel (Jan 31, 2008)

tebore said:


> Well the price is right. It's bright and only double that of a premium Mag85 Build.



How do you figure only double?

Torch @ 14v Predicted Lumens 4800

Mag85 @ 11.2v Predicted Lumens 1400 and thats instaflash territory for the 1185. at 10.8v is just over 1200 lumens which makes the torch 4x the 1185's predicted lumens.


Mac


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## smokelaw1 (Jan 31, 2008)

cmacclel said:


> How do you figure only double?
> 
> Torch @ 14v Predicted Lumens 4800
> 
> ...


 
I think he meant double the cost. 

Does anyone know (Mac?) if they used high quality components?


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## magudaman (Jan 31, 2008)

Mac,

where did you get the 9.7 amps? From the rate of discharge on the batteries at 15 minutes of run time that puts it at a 4c rate. Battery capacity is 1500ma/hours so just multiply by 4x = 6 amps at 14v = 84 watts.


What are the expected bulb life when they are putting out this much light?


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## cmacclel (Jan 31, 2008)

magudaman said:


> Mac,
> 
> where did you get the 9.7 amps? From the rate of discharge on the batteries at 15 minutes of run time that puts it at a 4c rate. Battery capacity is 1500ma/hours so just multiply by 4x = 6 amps at 14v = 84 watts.
> 
> ...



Look at Lux's charts. He did an awesome job documenting many bulbs.

Mac


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## TigerhawkT3 (Feb 1, 2008)

magudaman said:


> So if I'm doing the math right that bulb is only 75 watts or so? So I guess it is just very focused hu? I am working on a 600w handheld light running at 28v. I guess mine is just not quite as focused. Their system seems to run on that old burning bugs with the magnifying glass thing hu?


Wattage is volts multiplied by amps. It has nothing to do with focus. Bulbs can be driven at higher or lower levels than recommended in their specs.


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## magudaman (Feb 1, 2008)

I do know how to do the calculation to watts. Focus does matter on how hot the spot would be. If you were to spread a light out over a square foot verses a square inch the amount of energy hitting the surface would be very spread out. When it comes to catching things on fire, a focused beam would be necessary. It's like the sun shines on the earth but doesn't catch stuff on fire but when put through a magnify glass it can.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Feb 1, 2008)

I'm guessing that your 28V 600W build is an LK12. Those can indeed start fires. I was only disputing the link I perceived in your post between focus and wattage. The two factors do not affect each other. If you were not positing a relationship between the two, I apologize.


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## magudaman (Feb 1, 2008)

My 28v light build is a GE landing light. It is setup for aircraft power systems at 28v. I want to make the thing as small as possible so I plan on powering it from A123 batteries since the current is around 23 amps continuous. I guess I could use sub C but I love a123 batteries.

tigerhawkT3
There is a link. If I want to set stuff on fire with a flashlight. I am not saying there is more or less total watts output biased on focus but more watts would be needed if the beam was not as focused. So in my original post what I was saying was an normal focused 65 watts wouldn't set stuff on fire. For example a car headlight. So to get that same wattage to burn something it would then have to be very focused as in THE TORCH.


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## jugg2 (Feb 1, 2008)

This is just an observation, but "The Torch" is using some type of textured reflector. That would not focus the light as well as a smooth reflector. Also, my ROP hi with a smooth reflector will turn cardboard into glowing embers (after 45-60 seconds), so "The Torch" should have no problem setting paper on fire.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Feb 1, 2008)

magudaman said:


> My 28v light build is a GE landing light. It is setup for aircraft power systems at 28v. I want to make the thing as small as possible so I plan on powering it from A123 batteries since the current is around 23 amps continuous. I guess I could use sub C but I love a123 batteries.
> 
> tigerhawkT3
> There is a link. If I want to set stuff on fire with a flashlight. *I am not saying there is more or less total watts output biased on focus* but more watts would be needed if the beam was not as focused. So in my original post what I was saying was an normal focused 65 watts wouldn't set stuff on fire. For example a car headlight. So to get that same wattage to burn something it would then have to be very focused as in THE TORCH.


(Emphasis mine)

Yeah, that's the LK12. Google CPF for it.

The part of your post that I bolded there was the fact that I wanted to ensure didn't slip through the cracks. I'm glad we're on the same wavelength. 

And yeah, I know about the deal with focus. Have you seen my HMM? :naughty:


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 17, 2008)

jugg2 said:


> This is just an observation, but "The Torch" is using some type of textured reflector. That would not focus the light as well as a smooth reflector. Also, my ROP hi with a smooth reflector will turn cardboard into glowing embers (after 45-60 seconds), so "The Torch" should have no problem setting paper on fire.



The 64623 bulb, like many of the high power incan bulbs are used in projectors, and normally have a series of mirrors and lenses which remove the filament and glass envelope beam artifacts. 

When you adapt most of them for use in a small flashlight reflector, your only ways to have the beam look better is to use a heavily textured (medium orange peel) reflector, or a frosted lens. Because of the high amount of infrared heat radiation in close proximity, the frosted lens is not a practical option.


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## Flashanator (Feb 17, 2008)

the 100w halogen "Torch" bulb is rated at @ 2000 hrs???? is this even possible?

thx


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 17, 2008)

Flashanator 500mW said:


> the 100w halogen "Torch" bulb is rated at @ 2000 hrs???? is this even possible?
> 
> thx



Again, this is more of the misleading hype of this item. The default 12V listed life of the 64623 bulb is 2,000 hrs.

When you overdrive it with a 14.4V pack....hot off the charger, voltage goes up to 17.5+V, the life drops to under 25-30 hours. They are banking on people not burning out the bulb within their 6 month warranty....if they indeed cover the bulb in the warranty. Nothing is spelled out in the warranty, including the cost of shipping it back to China.


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## zipplet (Feb 17, 2008)

Halogen bulbs ran at spec typically do last for 2000 hours - atleast for projector lamps and those small halogens used in desklamps/spotlights.


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## jufam44 (Feb 17, 2008)

Lux, can you give us any information on your "vaporizer" that's "pending"?


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 17, 2008)

Nevermind


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## Patriot (Feb 17, 2008)

It would be fun to see their "torch" in a shoot off against the Helios at some 300 yard distant power line towers.......lol. Maybe Ken will arrange that comparison just for some fun. "most powerful" .....what dorks...


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## jugg2 (Feb 17, 2008)

Does anyone own one of these yet?


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## vandraiss (Feb 18, 2008)

I have one on order. I ordered it a couple days after it went on sale. A few days later I ordered an extra bulb and 2 more batteries. The sent me an email and said the first production lot was sold out due to unexpected high demand and that they expected more in mid February. To their credit they combined my 2 orders and refunded the $20 shipping charge for the second order. When I get it I will compare it to my SureFire Dominator 10X and my Microfire K3500R. Those are pretty good lights so the Torch will need to be a lot brighter to get a positive reaction from me. I'll post the results when I have a chance to compare them.


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## js (Feb 18, 2008)

Lightguy27,

It is specifically against the rules to discuss why someone was banned. Take this to the Underground if you like, but topside, this is a rules violation:



from the rules said:


> The banning of others is not a topic for discussion anywhere on CPF unless an administrator decides it is to the benefit of the entire community to discuss it and initiates the discussion. As a rule, bannings do not concern the rest of the board. If you choose to make a fuss and issue about it on behalf of the banned member, you yourself will be banned also. These types of discussions are VERY disruptive to the entire board. Also remember that there are always two sides to every story and there's a very good chance that you really don't know both of them. So don't speculate or assume. And if you really really MUST do something, then email or PM a moderator or administrator or take it to The Underground. Keep it off of CPF!!


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## jugg2 (Feb 18, 2008)

I think in the next month I will order one as well. I would buy one from Mac, but since he helped out with this I guess it's alright.


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## Lightguy27 (Feb 18, 2008)

js said:


> Lightguy27,
> 
> It is specifically against the rules to discuss why someone was banned. Take this to the Underground if you like, but topside, this is a rules violation:


 

Sorry, per the advice of another Mod it has been taken care of and won't happen again.

-Evan


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## pez (Feb 27, 2008)

check out popularmechnics.com before you buy one of these.


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## magudaman (Feb 27, 2008)

It's cool if you link directly to what your talking about:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4252206.html


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## maxa beam (Feb 27, 2008)

I'm ordering one. If it breaks or the bulb runs out before warrenty ends, I can always get another. o.o


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## jugg2 (Feb 27, 2008)

> "Ready to explode at any minute..."


 
I think that may be a little bit of an exageration. If it was Lith-Ion, then yeah, it could "vent with flame", but NiMh isn't explosive as far as I know.


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## SQ40 (Feb 27, 2008)

magudaman said:


> It's cool if you link directly to what your talking about:
> 
> http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4252206.html


 

That had to be a fluke.. No way they would release and sell those if that was the typical reaction..

BUT.. its still an issue.. Wonder what the problem was?


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## vandraiss (Mar 11, 2008)

I ordered a TORCH on 1-30-2008. After a few days Wicked told me they sold out due to unexpected demand. They said they would have more about 2-15-2008. That date came and went and then they said they would have the light the first week of February. That date came and went too. 

Had anyone ordered a TORCH from Wicked and received it?

How many of you ordered one like me and are still waiting for it?

I've purchased Lasers from them before and was very happy with the product and service. I'm beginning to wonder if they are stalling on shipments because of a design or reliability problem. I only say that because the one tested by Popular Mechanics melted internal contacts and blew out the battery.


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## vandraiss (Mar 14, 2008)

I received my Torch today. The flashlight and the battery charger do not ship together. I received the light, 2 spare batteries and a spare bulb in a package shipped from China but no charger. I sent them an email and they quickly responded by saying the charger ships seperately from a supplier in the USA. They said to expect it in a couple days. Not being able to charge the batteries I can't really test the light yet. 

At any rate if you ordered a Torch, don't panic if it shows up without a battery charger.


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## jugg2 (Mar 14, 2008)

what does the build quality look like?


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## vandraiss (Mar 14, 2008)

Build quality is acceptable but less than a Mag-Lite or Streamlight or a Microfire K3500R which is a machining masterpiece. Very minor tool marks on the machined outside surfaces. A few chips in the threads and it turned a little rough until I tooth brushed the threads and put some Nyogel on it. Now its turns quite smoothly. There are also o-rings on both the head and the end cap. The spring in the end cap is soldered to the cap. The solder joint is a little cold in appearance and may pop loose in the future. A little alcohol, resin flux and a medium size soldering iron will easily fix it. The Osram HLX 64623 bulb seats quite deeply in the reflector but you can get a solid uniform flood type beam with no doughnut. The only way I know the bulb is a Osram is that I bought a spare with the light and it came in factory packaging. Since the charger isn't here yet, I turned it on with what little charge was left in the battery. It lasted only a minute or two so it was nearly discharged when I got it. Thats typical, new Ni/Mh batteries always need a good charge when new. The minute or so it ran it didn't throw any better than my SureFire 10X which is 560 lumens. Getting anything close to 4100 lumens may be wishing for a lot. I was hoping it would be brighter and whiter than my Microfire K3500R (3500 lumens). It is a clean white light but unless a fully charged battery works miracles I'm going to end up dissapointed on brightness and throw. I'm reserving final judgement until I get the charger. I'll have more to say then.


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## TigerhawkT3 (Mar 14, 2008)

Yes, a fully charged battery will work miracles. 500L is "meh, pretty good," but 4kL is really nice. Even a mere 1-2kL makes me smile. Trust me on this - this thing has a whole lot of output. Don't discharge the cells any further, and charge them when your charger arrives. You'll see a world of difference.


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## vandraiss (Mar 14, 2008)

TigerhawkT3 said:


> Yes, a fully charged battery will work miracles. 500L is "meh, pretty good," but 4kL is really nice. Even a mere 1-2kL makes me smile. Trust me on this - this thing has a whole lot of output. Don't discharge the cells any further, and charge them when your charger arrives. You'll see a world of difference.


 
Thanks for the advice. I did buy 2 extra batteries with it so if I damaged one it doesn't matter much. I knew you shouldn't use a partially charged NI/MH but having the original and 2 spares I wanted to see what the light would do with whatever one of the batteries had left in it.


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## jugg2 (Mar 14, 2008)

+1 on charged batteries.

I have acquired an original "Torch" made by Mac, and the last minute or two of battery life is *very* low output compared to a full charge. I have a SF lego that is basically the M4 with a high-output bulb. The "Torch" makes it look like a minimag lol.

If the Wicked Laser's version performs similarly to the original (I think it should), you will not be disapointed. It's kinda like being able to hold the sun in your hands (I think someone else said that, but maybe about another light...).


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## vandraiss (Mar 16, 2008)

For this post to be meaningful with a minumim of reading start at post #90 if you haven't already read them. Prior posts are opinions of what the Torch might be like from people who hadn't received one yet. 

I have the Torch and charger now and I have charged my batteries. My discriptions of beam brightness are compared to some of the brightest flashlight sized lights available. Comparing the Torch to 6 cell MagLites, any Fenix or Streamlight UltraStringers (I have them) is like comparing burning matches to bonfires. 

The Torch is at least twice as bright as the SureFire 10X (560 Lumens) and somewhat dimmer than a Microfire K3500R (3500 Lumens). These are comparisons from my front porch. This is not a good night for beam shots where I live in Northern Los Angeles County. It's 37 F degrees outside, raining here and snowing in the nearby mountains. Also my neighborhood is full of streetlights. 

The Torch is an extremely bright light but puts out as much heat as light. Mine will light newspaper in less than 2 seconds. My Infrared thermometer measures up to 932 degrees F and the Torch exceeded that in a few seconds. The head of the light gets very hot in just a few minutes. Be careful where you set it down. Also the end cap switch extends beyond the end of the light so you can't set it down like a "candle" with the hot lens end up. My comparisons of light output are based on lights I own. Wicked Lasers boasts that the Torch is being considered for the world record as the worlds brightest flashlight. I have seen screenshots of the Microfire K3500R (3500 advertised Lumens) compared to the Polarion PH40 (4000 Lumens) and the Polarion is decidedly brighter. My Torch is not as bright as my K3500R so a world record for the Torch seems unlikely to me. 

The Torch is an extremely bright light however. It will light objects beyond a 1/4 mile. Street signs and Stop signs at 1/4 mile light up brilliantly with it.

In an earlier post I described my opinion on the quality of the light. Now that I received the charger, let me comment on that. It is a Tenergy Universal Smart charger (12V to 16.8V). It works on 120VAC or 240VAC and has charging rates of .9A and 1.8A. The .9A rate is recommended for this battery. It will charge a dead battery in about 90 minutes. It has an interesting feature for connecting it to the battery. The other Universal chargers I have seen have either a 2 pin plug or alligater clips to connect it to the battery. Neither work on batteries with a flat negative terminal on one and a small raised button on the other end. This charger has magnets on the connecting leads. Just touch then to the ends of the battery and they "stick" securely. The charger also has a thermal lead. Secure it against the battery with a rubber band or something for charge temperature protection. When the battery is charged the charger drops to a .050 Mah rate so leaving it on the charger won't damage it.

In summary, If you want a really bright light and only need it for 15 minutes a day or less, get one. If you want to sets things on fire and impress people with a really bright light, get one. If you have the money and like "toys" get one. If you need it for your 8 hour night job, get something else. There are plenty of links to good lights to serve any need on CPF.


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## chimneycheck (Apr 8, 2008)

I just got a Wicked 4100 lumen Torch and it seems to mostly live up to its claim (for a small sized light). Obviously, it is not "The Worlds Most Powerful" but it does kick ***.

I have an M6, Borealis, WE Rattlesnake (HO bulb), WE Boxer 24 Watt and a few others. It by far (and then some) beats em all. I would say that it well over doubles the output of the M6 and likely the Borealis as well.

The battery, of course, only lasts less than 15 minutes (claimed) but extra batteries are only 20 bucks each (I bought 2 xtra).

It is a toy or for "duty" if you need it less than 10 minutes at a time (I doubt it lasts the full 15). I use it for work, inspecting chimneys, and it will last the day but only because I use an LED for general purpose.

I will be going back to the M6 (using 2 - 18500 batteries) once I get over the novelty of the WL light.


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## Quicken (May 3, 2008)

Any recommendations for alternative bulbs with less power and longer battery time for the torch?


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## FILIPPO (May 4, 2008)

Quicken said:


> Any recommendations for alternative bulbs with less power and longer battery time for the torch?


 

you can easily get 35/50/75 W bulbs from your local shop...
you'll just need to replace the bulb.


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## chimneycheck (May 29, 2008)

Quicken said:


> Any recommendations for alternative bulbs with less power and longer battery time for the torch?


 
FM has his custom bulb that might work with the battery pack?

May double or triple the battery life.


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## Patriot (Jul 9, 2008)

Artec, I saw your other thread right before it was closed but I wouldn't purchase the torch. You can build a better "mag623" by yourself or even consider something more practical and less exotic like the "mag85"

The Torch/mag623 can't be run continuously and the 15.6V version with 13th battery should only be run for about one minute at a time since the resulting heat can actually damage the light, melt wire's etc...

The mag85 in a 3 x AW C cell formula, will produce around 1300 bulb lumens and can be run continuously until the batteries are drained. Also the mag85 can be build for less. 

Just a suggestion though, ultimately only you can decide what you're going to enjoy the most.


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## miniskunk (Aug 8, 2008)

I have purchased this and found battery run time to be less than half of what is claimed. I contacted WL about this and they agreed to send two batteries at no charge. They did seemed surprised that it did not live up to their claims when I spoke to them and suggested I might have charged them wrong. I explained I followed the included instructions to the letter and if they are charged wrong its due to the instructions not anything I did wrong on my part. Took a little over a month to get the replacements and after charging them and running a few cycles the best I have been able to get is about 6 mins in two cycles allowing it to cool to prevent damage. 3-4 mins of runtime results in a very hot flashlight right into the battery tube. I feel that I was mislead by the website and was cheated on the purchase, however, I did end up with four batteries in the end so I guess it makes up for the short run time. I just keep them all charged up for extended runtime needs. This is indeed a very bright flashlight. If you do buy, be careful with this. DO NOT look at the beam at all or aim at anyone. It will damage your eyes. I actually consider this to be more a weapon than a practical light source. It is bright enough to light buildings over two blocks away quite well and turns night into day at normal use range. I would describe the intensity as being on par with a 250 watt halogen torchiere lamp.

Bottom line: I would not recommend this flashlight to anyone due to the poor runtime.


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## Sgt. LED (Aug 9, 2008)

It's only real use seems to be the WOW factor. And that's just why I sold my Mag623 with 15.6V batt pack. Not enough runtime to justify carrying it anywhere but the backyard. Admittedly I do miss the insane output.

:shrug:


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## Teego (Sep 24, 2008)

Slight necro here, but Gizmodo did a little review of the light today: http://gizmodo.com/5054103/lightnin...-torch-is-the-worlds-most-powerful-flashlight

"The World's Most Powerful", mmhmm...


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## [email protected] (Jan 20, 2009)

If the torch has 4k lumen then why not just put 3 fluro household lamps (1500 lumen each) in a massive reflector powered by a car battery :devil:


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## MorpheusT1 (Feb 11, 2009)

Do wicked lasers use a Mag as host or did they make a chinese clone?

Also has anyone compared MAc`s version VS VL`s regarding switch etc etc.


I dont want to fork up the dought unless i know the light is compatible with MAg parts...etc aftermarket bezel / Tailcap etc etc.


Benny


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## Swedpat (Feb 11, 2009)

I think it's obvious that the only reason to manufacture such a flashlight is to get the world record of the brightest flashlight. 15 minutes runtime means that this light is quite unusable, in my opinion...
Nevertheless it's a cool (or more correct expressed HOT) thing. But I would not purchase it just for the fun thing to make an impression on people...
In the same way some people would be impressed, they would be disappointed about the short usable time.

Patric


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## bebe (Oct 27, 2016)

well... my SureFire M6 also had 15 minutes of runtime. (That light needed the LED conversion kit to actually get useful)


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## fivemega (Oct 28, 2016)

bebe said:


> well... my SureFire M6 also had 15 minutes of runtime.



*If you can find 2x18650, 3x17670, 3x16650 or 2x26500 adapter then use proper bulb, you will get much more run time.*


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