# M4 vs M6



## Danintex (Dec 14, 2009)

Guys, 
I've got an M6 that I really love, but was wondering. How much realistic difference is there between the M6 and the M4? can someone point me to a comparision thread? Thanks,

D


----------



## DimeRazorback (Dec 14, 2009)

Are you referring to output, or size?


----------



## Danintex (Dec 14, 2009)

Output... I'm not too concerned about size difference.


----------



## DimeRazorback (Dec 14, 2009)

Output wise, you wont really notice that much of a difference.

Do you plan on using a rechargeable setup or using primaries??

Seeing as you already have an M6 you will more likely be 'disappointed' with the HOLA of the M4 then anything. Both are beautiful lights in make and form. The M4 has an excellent feel in my hand, probably due to the knurling.

Here is a size comparison pic for you :thumbsup:


----------



## Danintex (Dec 14, 2009)

Sweet, thanks! I'd be using primaries since its easier to switch primaries in the field. Throw is about the same then? The HO bulb on my M6 seems a bit floody.


----------



## DimeRazorback (Dec 14, 2009)

The M4 has a more round hotspot.
The throw is about the same :thumbsup:

I will be updating my beamshots tonight hopefully, so if you want to check back tomorrow you will be able to see the differences :thumbsup:

I will have:

MN20
MN21
MN60
MN61
Lumens Factory HO-M3T


----------



## Danintex (Dec 14, 2009)

You bet, I've been eyeing a Lumens Factory bulb for a bit now, would like to know if it's worth the price... Maybe I'll just keep that M6 and get the M4 too.


----------



## DM51 (Dec 14, 2009)

SureFire M6 rechargeable options – SHOOTOUT :devil:


----------



## BlueBeam22 (Dec 14, 2009)

DM51's M6 thread is magnificent! :twothumbs

Btw, nice size comparison shot, DimeRazorBack.


----------



## cfromc (Dec 14, 2009)

I've had both and to me the M6 is visibly brighter up close but throw was very similar. I liked the M4 form-factor a lot better.


----------



## Superdave (Dec 14, 2009)

They use the same exact reflector so the bulb is going to be what makes the difference in throw. The M6 is a little brighter with the MN21, the M4 is a battery hog with the MN61 but is still very bright. 


I'd bore out the M4 and run 2 AW 18650's with a MN16 lamp. Great beam and 500 ish out the front. It'll keep up with the M6 and is rechargeable.


----------



## NoFair (Dec 14, 2009)

DM51 said:


> SureFire M6 rechargeable options – SHOOTOUT :devil:



A word of warning. That thread can kill an unprotected wallet in seconds :naughty:


----------



## Danintex (Dec 14, 2009)

Good grief you guys, I was up most of the night drooling over that SHOOTOUT. Now I'm really confused... I like boring out the M4, then I can secure it over my riflescope for varmint hunting and such. And I already have a boatload of 18650s. Can I drop those in fresh off the charger?


----------



## Sgt. LED (Dec 14, 2009)

Li-ions don't settle down like NiMH. Use them fresh from the charger.


----------



## leukos (Dec 14, 2009)

Danintex said:


> Guys,
> I've got an M6 that I really love, but was wondering. How much realistic difference is there between the M6 and the M4? can someone point me to a comparision thread? Thanks,
> 
> D


 

On primaries, output is going to sag more with the M4 than with the M6. As far as the beam and reflectors, they are nearly identical. Both modify quite easily, so I suppose it just boils down to which form factor you prefer. For me the M4 is too long and the M6 body is a little too fat, but I have kept my 2 M6's and sold my M4 and 2x 18650 leef body, YMMV.


----------



## Steve in SoCal (Dec 14, 2009)

Which CPF members perform boring services for the M4?

Or you can just use 2 x 17670 without boring.


----------



## Illum (Dec 14, 2009)

I prefer the M6 because its a good balance in runtime if used with M3 lamps...
Its cumbersome to carry but with gloves its near perfect. 

Used with the KL6 it extends the range in runtime up to 3 hours, as compared to the "nearly an hour and half" L6


----------



## AvroArrow (Dec 14, 2009)

NoFair said:


> A word of warning. That thread can kill an unprotected wallet in seconds :naughty:



+10

I never would have even remotely considered the M6 until I read that thread by DM51. Then I started looking and found a real good deal on a used M6 & M4 package from a local guy. And my wallet has not been the same since. I eventually sold the M4 because I didn't like the form factor as a handheld light. It felt a bit unbalanced when I gripped it so that my hand was far back enough to press the switch. I prefer the M6 over the M4 for balance as a hand held light. And the M4 is much more limited in rechargeable options compared to the M6. BUT you can't exactly mount a M6 to a picatinny rail either.



Danintex said:


> Good grief you guys, I was up most of the night drooling over that SHOOTOUT. Now I'm really confused... I like boring out the M4, then I can secure it over my riflescope for varmint hunting and such. And I already have a boatload of 18650s. Can I drop those in fresh off the charger?



If you've already got a bunch of 18650s & charger then you can try the M4 rechargeable options (2x Li-ions) with your M6. Just get 1 or 2 of MDOCOD's 2x18650 adapters ($20+shipping) and you're all set to try any of the 2xLi-ion lamps (MN15, MN16, MN20, LF HO-M3T, LF EO-M3T, FM bi-pin-to-MN adapter+whatever bulb) without having to buy a M4. And if you don't like the output, it only cost you about $50 for the adapter & 1 of the LF bulbs.


----------



## Illum (Dec 14, 2009)

AvroArrow said:


> BUT you can't exactly mount a M6 to a picatinny rail either.



It doesn't use the M6 body no...but...

Look up M500A Millennium Universal WeaponLights then look up "KM501 Turbohead conversion"
http://www.surefire.com/KM501-TurboHead-Conversion
Looks like an M6 doesn't it? and yes, that's an MB20 beside it


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Dec 14, 2009)

Sorry - can't resist.... :laughing: I thought size didn't matter......

Anyway - That is an awesome thread on the M6 that I have read about 3-4 times and learned a lot about the options.

I don't have the M4 or the M6 personally because I wanted to avoid using that many primaries. I do have a FM Megallenium and a FM 2x26500 M head light both with KT4 heads.

A few things to note - not every KT4 head is the same. Of 2 KT4 heads one was definitely more throw and one was more flood. 

I've run MN16 on 2x26500 lions and it is pretty stellar. Moving up to a MN21 is much brighter. Going with some custom WA1111, WA1185, FM1909 and the spread of LF bulbs my results are interesting. With the KT4 head there is definitely difference in brightness between different setups but there is more of an effect on the size of the spot as brightness goes up. As the filaments get bigger so does the size of the spot - so brighter bulb doesn't always correlate to more throw.


----------



## Danintex (Dec 14, 2009)

Thanks for all the info guys... SOYCD- are you running the 25500's with an adapter or do they fit right in? Duct tape will mount an M6 to a rail just fine, just wrap the light in saran wrap first so it doesnt get goo all over it. How much brighter is the L6 than the L5? Sorry for asking dumb questions, just curious!


----------



## AvroArrow (Dec 14, 2009)

Illum said:


> It doesn't use the M6 body no...but...
> 
> Look up M500A Millennium Universal WeaponLights then look up "KM501 Turbohead conversion"
> http://www.surefire.com/KM501-TurboHead-Conversion
> Looks like an M6 doesn't it? and yes, that's an MB20 beside it



Sorry, I meant mounting the M6 as-is using a ring mount. The body diameter of the M6 is 1.75" and most ring mounts I've found doing a quick search are meant for 1" diameter lights. There may in fact be such a mount but I haven't checked extensively for it. The M500A+KM501 sure does look impressive... but it's also $883 MSRP worth of weapon light. 

Danintex,
Duct tape a M6?!? The blasphemy!!! That would only be acceptable during a zombie outbreak.  I believe the L6 is discontinued but you can probably still find old stock in some stores or someone selling one in the CPFMP. The L6 & L5 are both rated 100 lumens. The only difference is runtime: L6=90mins on high, L5=60mins on high.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Dec 15, 2009)

Danintex said:


> Thanks for all the info guys... SOYCD- are you running the 25500's with an adapter or do they fit right in?


 
The body I am referring to is this one:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238956

Unfortunately it is a little pricey with the head (which I will never use) but it fits the IMR 26500s perfectly. I installed the AW SoftStart and am running it with KT4 head and WA1111 bulb. The wonderful this about the handle is that it isn't too thick to hold and with the knurling it fits the hand just right. :twothumbs I am actually surprise FM hasn't sold more of them - I believe he would if the head was a separate purchase and the body was a little cheaper.


----------



## Illum (Dec 15, 2009)

AvroArrow said:


> Sorry, I meant mounting the M6 as-is using a ring mount. The body diameter of the M6 is 1.75" and most ring mounts I've found doing a quick search are meant for 1" diameter lights. There may in fact be such a mount but I haven't checked extensively for it. The M500A+KM501 sure does look impressive... but it's also $883 MSRP worth of weapon light.



ahh, yes ring mounts a definite no...no company would hope to make a ring that size

at surefire's prices, designing, turning, and fabricating your own host would probably end up in savings.


----------



## joeycoates (Dec 22, 2009)

As was asked earlier in this thread, does anyone know of a CPF member who can bore out an M4 body to fit 18650's? I use my M4 on an AR-15 and would like to go to the rechargable option, the 123's are geting expensive and I can use the 18650's in a lot of lights. Thanks for the help guys. Oh, and I gues a MN16 lamp, are there any others that I need to look at?


----------



## Steve in SoCal (Dec 22, 2009)

joeycoates said:


> As was asked earlier in this thread, does anyone know of a CPF member who can bore out an M4 body to fit 18650's? I use my M4 on an AR-15 and would like to go to the rechargable option, the 123's are geting expensive and I can use the 18650's in a lot of lights. Thanks for the help guys. Oh, and I gues a MN16 lamp, are there any others that I need to look at?



Jesus Hernandez will bore your M4 to accept 18650s.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/156080

Having said that you can more easily run 2 x17670s in your M4 with no boring needed. You just need the correct bulb such as a LF EO/HO-M3T.


----------



## joeycoates (Dec 22, 2009)

Are the 17670's the same length as the 18650's or do I need to do anything unusual to get them to fit or make it work? I appreciate the help and input.


----------



## Linger (Dec 22, 2009)

Those numbers for cells are plain text code. The first set signifies diameter, the second signifies length. Did you know:
the 17670 cell is;
-17mm diameter
-67mm in length
-0 denotes cylinder

And thus it is thinner by about the same length as the 18650
18mm diameter
65mm length
0 = cylindrical

while your cr123's are roughly equivilent to 16340's
This convention applies across the lithium cells used, 26500, 18500's, 14500's...
Have a look at AW's battery sales thread in the Dealer's section of the Marketplace: the of first post he has a picture of all the different batteries lined up with printed names/capacities visible. It is impactful picture seeing them and size written right on them.


----------



## Fusion_m8 (Dec 22, 2009)

Protected 17670s will fit. No modifications needed for 17670s, but if you want 18650s, the M4 body has to be bored out which is risky because the walls will be dangerously thin. The best option is to scout for a Leef or FM 2x18650 body in the Custom B/S/T forum on CPF.

Just beware that if you're using 2x17670s, the MN60 & MN61 bulbs will have to be swapped for either the MN15, MN16 bulbs.




joeycoates said:


> Are the 17670's the same length as the 18650's or do I need to do anything unusual to get them to fit or make it work? I appreciate the help and input.


----------



## joeycoates (Dec 22, 2009)

Thanks guys. I do not want to bore the tube, it is mounted on an AR-15 as I said so it does get banged around a bit. I do not know if I want to find another body or the 17670's. I would say the 17670's but I just ordered a Felix TK11 and TK30 which both use 18650's and for streamlining and simplicity (if the s**t hits the fan) I would have the interchangability. Does anyone know if another body is significantly larger in diameter then the stock M4 body? I am using a Viking Tactic light mount that will work with a roughly 1" tube, maybe a bit larger. I would need to keep that in mind.

Also what knid of difference in run time would I see between the four 123's as compared to the 17670's or 18650's? Thanks again for your responces, this forum has helped me to make some well informed and educated decisions. :thumbsup:


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Dec 23, 2009)

Danintex said:


> You bet, I've been eyeing a Lumens Factory bulb for a bit now, would like to know if it's worth the price... Maybe I'll just keep that M6 and get the M4 too.


The HO-M3T is perfect in the M4 (loaded with 2xAW17670). Throws better then either the MN61 or 60.


----------



## Fusion_m8 (Dec 23, 2009)

joeycoates said:


> Also what knid of difference in run time would I see between the four 123's as compared to the 17670's or 18650's? Thanks again for your responces, this forum has helped me to make some well informed and educated decisions. :thumbsup:



Depending on the real capacities of the 17670s and 18650s and the lamps you will be using. Using AW protected cells (which is the accepted standard here). Runtimes on 17670s and CR123s are about the same, give or take 5mins. 18650s would give you about 20-30mins extra runtime over the above setups but you'd either have to bore out the M4 body or get a FM or Leef 2x18650 body.

4xCR123s will be expensive to keep running compared to Li-On cells.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Dec 23, 2009)

Fusion_m8 said:


> Depending on the real capacities of the 17670s and 18650s and the lamps you will be using. Using AW protected cells (which is the accepted standard here). Runtimes on 17670s and CR123s are about the same, give or take 5mins. 18650s would give you about 20-30mins extra runtime over the above setups but you'd either have to bore out the M4 body or get a FM or Leef 2x18650 body.
> 
> 4xCR123s will be expensive to keep running compared to Li-On cells.


Lighthound still has the fantastic 3x18650 'C' to 'M' *Leef Body*. Perfect for the MN60, LF IMR-M6 or the WA1185.

http://www.lighthound.com/LeefBody-C-Tail-M-Head-3x18650-Battery-HA-III-Natural_p_942.html


----------



## knightrider (Dec 23, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Lighthound still has the fantastic 3x18650 'C' to 'M' *Leef Body*. Perfect for the MN60, LF IMR-M6 or the WA1185.
> 
> http://www.lighthound.com/LeefBody-C-Tail-M-Head-3x18650-Battery-HA-III-Natural_p_942.html



I've got one of these and really like it. Hardly ever hear or see anything about this body for some reason...

One thing to note is the length of the light, it's a longer body, my light with KT4 and switch is 12" long.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Dec 24, 2009)

knightrider said:


> I've got one of these and really like it. Hardly ever hear or see anything about this body for some reason...
> 
> One thing to note is the length of the light, it's a longer body, my light with KT4 and switch is 12" long.


It's a totally acceptable length if you are used to carry big Maglites and Ultrastingers, though... A lot brighter to boot and with excellent runtimes with the new AW 2600mAh. Sweet setup.


----------



## knightrider (Dec 24, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> It's a totally acceptable length if you are used to carry big Maglites and Ultrastingers, though... A lot brighter to boot and with excellent runtimes with the new AW 2600mAh. Sweet setup.



Wow! Just checked and the M4 is only 9.3 inches long. I thought it was a bigger light.

It's funny because I am so used to smaller lights that my KT4 Leef setup seems huge. But then I remember some of the long lights that are around and it really isn't that bad. And ones from the past too. It's probably the diameter compared to the length. If it were fatter it would look more normal so to speak.

The longer length of the KT4 Leef 3x18650 isn't bad at all unless you need a faster tactical light. That's one of the main reasons I picked up an M3 a bit ago.


----------

