# 2D Mag P7 shopping list + Build thread



## spankone (Oct 19, 2009)

ok I've set my sights on modding a 2D mag because of its nice size, I wanted to run run it direct drive and it seemed to do that my best option was to run 3xC cells. it seems that a better option considering that I dont have any C cells or charger is to go to 2x18650 cells instead  using a DW buck converter.

afterall I've all way's been told build it once and build it right!

the shopping list

4x18650 = 2xspares
charger
P7 D***I
Britelumens Heatsink
Buck converter
Battery adapters
Epoxy
thermal paste
total cost is nearly £100 bit more than I wanted to spend but build it once build it right means I have to spend a bit extra

any thing else / recomend

EDIT 

its built 

well its built still waiting on the 18650 batterys though,
I'm not going to post a build thread but if you want to know how its done check out these links

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238641

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/195358

link to my pictures, can't wait to test it tonight 

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v201/spankone/modified%20maglite%202%20D%20cell/





















































































































beam shot taken with the room lights on from 2meters away
















the back fence is 5 meters away and the side fences are about 3 meters apart still using standard refelctor and lense


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## tx101 (Oct 19, 2009)

UCL glass lens
Metal orange peel reflector or you can get away with
spraying the stock Mag reflector
Teflon sleeved wire


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## eprom (Oct 19, 2009)

Maybe you can use FiveMega VLOP Deep Alu. Reflector

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/242571

Your choice.

EpRoM


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## spankone (Oct 19, 2009)

I was thinkin of spraying the reflector, whats the best product to use? could I use a simple clear laqure?


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## spankone (Oct 19, 2009)

is this epoxy ok

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=46006


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## tx101 (Oct 19, 2009)

What are you thinking of using that epoxy for?
If your thinkmg of using it to stick the emitter
to the heatsink, don't
Use Artic Alumina epoxy


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## spankone (Oct 19, 2009)

I guess I can source that in the uk?
thermal paste, is that just cpu paste?


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## tx101 (Oct 19, 2009)

you can get it on ebay

The thermal paste you use is the same as the CPU stuff


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## spankone (Oct 19, 2009)

thanks


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## spankone (Oct 20, 2009)

I've had many hobbies and projects but flashlights are very anoying, I'm waiting for batteries, driver, heat sink, led. all making there way to me from over sea's and a looming postal strike aswell. I can't stand waiting I want to build this now lol


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## spankone (Oct 25, 2009)

most the bits have arrived now but I'm still waiting for the led,heatsink and batterys


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## tx101 (Oct 25, 2009)

Hope they don't get held up in the Postal strike


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## spankone (Oct 26, 2009)

well the led and heat sink just arrived 10mins later all soldered and in my torch. running off 3xaa atm and seems to be working ok. just need to wait for my 18650 batterys to arrive


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## Justin Case (Oct 26, 2009)

Which buck driver did you select? IIRC, your link #1 describes a direct drive Mag build, and link #2 uses an AMC7135-based driver, which is limited to 1xLi-ion or 3xNiMH magnitude input voltage.

If you can't find thermal epoxy but can find thermal compound (paste) or alumina powder (e.g., from a chemical supply house), you can try either of these workarounds to glue down your LED:

- Put the thermal compound under the LED and use regular epoxy around the circumference of the LED's case to fix the LED in place on the heat sink

- Mix some thermal compound with regular epoxy to create a homemade thermal epoxy (I've done this using Arctic Alumina thermal compound and Devcon 5-minute epoxy)

- Order some alumina powder from The Sandwich Shoppe (or any other convenient source) and mix that with regular epoxy to make thermal epoxy


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## spankone (Oct 26, 2009)

used a Der Witchel buck convertel

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201981

I used both of the build threads for refrence


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## Anto (Oct 26, 2009)

Not bad, can you focus the head anymore so you won't get a donut? KD and DX both have $5 reflectors that fit the P7 nicely with some modification.


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## spankone (Oct 26, 2009)

I'm not sure on what size refector it would need


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## JamisonM (Oct 26, 2009)

spankone said:


> I'm not sure on what size refector it would need


A standard maglite reflector will work, but because of the spacing between the LED dies, it will have a hole in the center of the hotspot. You can alleviate this by sputtering your reflector or buying one with a textured finish. You can also defocus the reflector slightly. One thing I see that you should think about doing is pulling the wires going to the LED through the heatsink more. This will help you better focus your light.


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## Anto (Oct 26, 2009)

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12229


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## spankone (Oct 27, 2009)

DX have only just shipped my batterys


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## spankone (Oct 27, 2009)

how come I can run the light on 3xaa alkalines no problams but 3xaa ni-mhs cut out?


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## Hill (Oct 28, 2009)

:goodjob: 

Nice build and great pics! P7's are pretty easy to do and you get a lot of bag for the buck

It's a mute point now that you have already done the build with a driver, but if you wanted to save $$, it would actually be cheaper to go the dd using 3 x C NiMh cells, even if you have to purchase a dedicated smart charger.

P7 driver = ~$35
4 x 18650 = ~$48
charger = ~$15
Total= ~$98

vs

no driver = $0
4 x C NimH = ~$20
PVC (for battery sleeve) = ~$3
smart charger = ~$20
Total= ~$47

These figures are just from memory so don't quote me on them. I did a 2D P7 running DD from 3 C LSD NiMh cells. On a fresh charge, it pushes >3A and I get probably 900 lumens.

Either way, it will work.
Hill


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## Der Wichtel (Oct 28, 2009)

but he uses only 2 batteries. the other 2 batteries are spare batteries. 
The Trustfire batteries are pretty good and cost less than 10$ for a pair.
http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?t=61183&page=4

so it's 98$-38$ = 60$ for the setup with driver.


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## spankone (Oct 28, 2009)

yeh I weighed up the cost of both and to run c cells with a spare set of cells I would need 6 batterys + charger, the 18650s seem good value and not as heavy


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## spankone (Oct 28, 2009)

might have to build another one soon lol but a DW triple


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## spankone (Nov 10, 2009)

ok the 18650's arrived and omg its bright. the neighbor shouted at me to turn it off lol


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## tx101 (Nov 10, 2009)

LOL


Did you ever try to sputter the reflector or get an OP reflector ?

Also did you follow member JamisonM's advice and pull the wires
thru some more

I have always wanted to build a tri-P7 Mag but never seem to be
able to get around to it ..... the funds for the build always get diverted
to another project


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## old4570 (Nov 10, 2009)

Your reflector needs to sit a little lower ..

In fact Im wondering why its sitting so high ? Are the wires to the LED in the way ?


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## spankone (Nov 10, 2009)

yeh the wires are in the way which was a mistake on my part and for some reason wont go through any more I've opened up the reflector so it sits lower, I'm back in the office tomorrow so i'll try to OP it and fit the wires properly once and for all. I've realy enjoyed this project and can't wait to build another I'm thinking I'll build a p7 mag cut off with seperate power supply as my next project


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## Fulgeo (Nov 12, 2009)

If you OP your stock plastic reflector with clear enamel paint you will lose some light output. Make one pass North to South about 6 inches away from the reflector and then do another pass East to West. Do not over do it, less is more. It does work thou. BriteLumens sells an inexpensive MOP aluminum reflector with 15 mm and 16 mm openings. The 15 mm version would clear your heatsink center post but maybe not your wires. So I would suggest the 16 mm version. With these metal reflectors you will lose less light output than the sputtered plastic reflector. Also I have found that a good aspherical lens with a FL of 250mm will clean up the beam as much as a sputtered plastic stock reflector. This lens works great with P7. Here is one that works great http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/pl1106.html I have all of the above components including the homemade sputtered MOP plastic reflector, so I have first hand experience with them. I was playing with them last night for a new build I am currently working on. Happy Mods!


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## Justin Case (Nov 12, 2009)

old4570 said:


> Your reflector needs to sit a little lower ..
> 
> In fact Im wondering why its sitting so high ? Are the wires to the LED in the way ?



No doubt the wires to the LED are in the way. Check out the photo, top view of the P7 mounted on the heat sink. There is a lot of excess wire. The wire insulator thickness also seems very large, making the overall wire diameter overly large. I've been able to fit 22 gauge, stranded, Teflon jacketed wire, and it just barely clears a 15mm diam reflector opening. You need to pull your wires tight and come straight up the feed holes to the LED terminals and flush against the heat sink. Then either bend 90 degree doglegs in the bared wire ends and solder them to the LED or just go straight up and solder the bared wires to the sides of the terminals. It helps to position the LED terminals so that the hookup wires can make as straight of a line as possible to their connection points. Or at least that's one way to do it.


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## spankone (Nov 13, 2009)

fixed it pulled them through and the reflector is at a better hight


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## Justin Case (Nov 13, 2009)

shdwkeeper's guide on building a direct drive P7 Mag mod has some good photos of soldering your hookup wires to the LED. See the 3 photos that follow the one where he smears the Ceramique thermal compound on the heat sink. Here is another example:


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## kramer5150 (Nov 19, 2009)

I am scoping out a similar mod for my 2D...

Where do you mount the DC-DC board? Does it just hang there? Isn't that a little risky?


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## Justin Case (Nov 19, 2009)

What driver? Check out The Shoppe's Shark Sink for one option for mounting the Shark series drivers and other similar boards.


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## JamisonM (Nov 19, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> I am scoping out a similar mod for my 2D...
> 
> Where do you mount the DC-DC board? Does it just hang there? Isn't that a little risky?


Here's what I do.


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## Justin Case (Nov 19, 2009)

If reasonably feasible, I think it is better to pot the driver on the Mag tube inside wall instead of the heat sink. Let the heat sink keep the LED cool, which is a critical task. Don't add to the heat sink's burden by adding another direct heat input to it. If you can use a Shark Sink type interface, you'll also save a lot of thermal potting material as well.


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## JamisonM (Nov 19, 2009)

Justin Case said:


> If reasonably feasible, I think it is better to pot the driver on the Mag tube inside wall instead of the heat sink. Let the heat sink keep the LED cool, which is a critical task. Don't add to the heat sink's burden by adding another direct heat input to it. If you can use a Shark Sink type interface, you'll also save a lot of thermal potting material as well.


Just how much heat are we talking about that needs to be moved? If I have a P7 (or similar LED) and I'm putting 2.8A through it, that I know is producing around 10 watts of heat. Now, How much heat does the driver make and how does the heat from the LED affect it? In this case, the driver is a hipCC. There are 5 NiMH powering it all. This is still something I don't quite understand.


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## spankone (Nov 20, 2009)

mine just sits in the tube with a bit of electrical tape round it. I think you can worry to much about these things :naughty:


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## Justin Case (Nov 20, 2009)

Relatively speaking, the amount of heat added by a good driver is small compared to the heat generated by the P7 itself. For a average driver efficiency of say 80%, a P7 driven at full power (let's say 10W) will require about 12.5W of power sent to the driver (10W/80%). So potting the driver to the heat sink will add about 2.5W of additional heat that needs to be dissipated. The P7 is already generating roughly 8W of waste heat.

It's not a case of excess worry. If you can use a Shark Sink, then it is just as easy to pot the driver on the side of the Mag tube as it is to pot the driver to the heat sink. So why not do it right? Of course it is always cost-benefit. If you can't use a Shark Sink and it is a hassle to figure out a way to attach the driver thermally to the Mag tube, then potting the driver to the heat sink might be more desirable. Since I can't know all of the driver variations that might be used, I simply presented the desired approach in terms of thermal considerations. It's not a law of physics that you have to do it that way.

If I were using a Shark, Shark Buck, Blue Shark, or hipCC, I'd sink the driver to the Mag body using a Shark Sink. Unquestionably. The less the LED heats up, the better the performance. That is a law of physics.


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## spankone (Jan 12, 2010)

just ordered an mop reflector and glass lens from deal extreme


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## Archie Cruz (Jan 13, 2010)

For what it's worth. I think I've settled on an excellent mounting solution for MAG-D or similar girth lights. Have been using it for a few weeks not in the studio. It should work for bikes too.


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