# My beautiful HDS mod by milkyspit, using a Seoul emitter!



## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

This post is a "work in progress", with details added as they become available. For now, I would like to inform those of you with HDS lights having poor runtimes that you can give new life to your light by having it modded with a Seoul Semiconductor "U" flux binned P4 emitter. I highly recommend my modder, fellow CPF member milkyspit (Scott), for this task. His emphasis on detail, accuracy, and quality are to be commended, evident by the sterling condition of my light after the mod.....no dust inside the lens, no dust on the reflector, and no dust on the emitter's "gummy" dome. Almost "clean room clean!" The mod is a simple emitter swap without the need for light module removal, and turnaround time is usually one day. PM milkyspit for details!

For those who have not visited the www.novatac.com website today, there has been an update. The revised release date is now April/May 2007. This is a long way from January 31st......today's date. I am mentioning this to suggest that you do not have to wait 4 months for the next NovaTac light (??) in order to make your present underachieving light a 120lm (or so) powerhouse. In the case of those lights with inefficient emitters not easily yielding the outputs that are "model specific", Henry had to increase the power supply in order to rate his lights at 42, 60 and 85 lumens. In theory, the lower the runtime of a light the greater the improvement in output. This occurs because the power provided to the emitter will be better utilized by an efficient Seoul emitter, will maintain the same runtime as the stock emitter, and will generate the same heat as the stock emitter. In other words, more light will be produced without any negative consequences!

My impression of the modded light's "visual" characteristics:
The tint is barely a cool white. The beam pattern has no artifacts, no rings, no square die projections and no "angelic halos." The hotspot blends into the sidespill very smoothly, and the output of my U60 light went from 60lm to what I believe to be *at least 120lm*. I am pretty sure that it has not reached the next progression in output based on Henry's "visually even" level increase factor, *which would be 170lm*! Note that HDS light levels increase at the rate of the square root of 2 (1.414) from one level to the next one. This is why we have seen lights with 42lm, 60lm and 85lm levels, and most recently with 120lm as showcased at the Shot Show. Although I am disappointed that my light did not reach 170lm, the difference between my older U60 and my modded U60 is visually striking. It is a most impressive improvement.

How I plan to determine the output of my modded light:
Some of you may be thinking out loud "what is the output of luxlover's newly modded light?" To this, I give an answer to which I welcome comments. I plan on determining the output of my light with the use of my older U60, the modded light and a Meterman LM-631 luxmeter. If it would be proper to assume that my existing U60 is indeed a 60lm light, then I can use that light as a benchmark to determine the output of my modded light. My plan to accomplish this is as follows:
1. Assume that my light is 60lm, with a rating tolerance by Henry of plus or minus 5%. This means that my light could be anywhere from 57lm to 63lm. In reality, it wouldn't matter since the brain cannot easily detect such small variations anyway! So for the sake of simplicity, I will trust that my light is producing 60lm and use that value in my calculations.
2. To generate consistent luxmeter results, I will have to create a fixture that will be able to aim each light, one at a time, at the luxmeter's pickup in such a way that whatever portion of overall light output will be absorbed by the pickup will be consistent from one light to the other. This will not be a problem, since both lights have stock HDS reflectors, which means that the distribution of hotspot and sidespill will be identical. Note that if the modded light's output is so great that it overloads the meter, I will have to move it further back from the pickup until I can get a reading. I reserve the right to select the distance from the pickup, because my test is designed to get a reading of how much light is reaching the pickup. The result will be "relative" based on the distance from the pickup, and it will not represent an "absolute" value as it would if I had placed the light at the industry standard distance of one meter.
3. I was thinking of devising a setup where I would place each light inside a short piece of pvc tubing (or equivalent), and place the tubing directly against the pickup so as to take all light reflected off the inner walls of the tubing and have it absorbed by the pickup.
4. By recording the luxmeter's reading of the U60, doing the same with the modded light, and then using simple algebra to calculate the increase, I will get pretty close to the lumen output of the modded light. The key to the success of this experiment is to make very sure that each light is positioned in the exact same position from the luxmeter's pickup. Even if all the output of each light is not absorbed by the pickup, I can reach an accurate lumen determination if both lights are positioned exactly the same way.
5. To avoid confusion, I am going to give an example of a possible test outcome......
Once I determine the distance at which the modded light will not overload the luxmeter, and take a reading, I will place the U60 light at that same position and take a reading. Let's say that the modded light yields a reading of 12,000 lux, and the U60 yields a reading of 6,000 lux. If the modded light is yielding a lux reading twice as much as the U60, then it is a logical conclusion that the modded light has a 120lm output.

I welcome any comments, in favor of or against my testing methodology.

Jeff


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## Led_Blind (Jan 31, 2007)

Hey, i did the seul upgrade to my HDS as well. It sure is bright, more than 120 lumens.

How did i come to this? Well I had 2 U60's and compared them to a HD45. That is both U60's table standing V's 1 HD45 doing the cealing bounce test in the smallest room in the house. The result was the HD45 was visualy brighter than both U60's on max.The 

I then swapped the emitter in one of the U60's then went back to that small room to ponder the diference. Now the Seul U60 is a hair duller than the HD45..... so its +120Lumens  


Wooot!


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## pcmike (Jan 31, 2007)

Forget the text, let's see pictures. It's 1am, no way I'm reading all that....


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## iNDiGLo (Jan 31, 2007)

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. Without pics it appears to be true. 

I'll take "The Encyclopedia Brittanica for $300, Jim"...


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## Icebreak (Jan 31, 2007)

:hahaha:This is important stuff, luxlover.

Would you consider editing your signature red text so my eyes don't bleed while I'm trying to read this? I'm trying to use a little humor in this request. That humor may be easily lost?

THX


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## majr (Jan 31, 2007)

The reflectors in the two lights may be identical, but the emmision patterns may not be exactly the same. But if they look close enough to you, then it really doesn't make much difference. The only way to really tell short of an IS would be some sort of lightbox setup.


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## Led_Blind (Jan 31, 2007)

Majr, was that to me? Yes the reflectors are different but a cealing bounce test gets around that.


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## TorchMan (Jan 31, 2007)

Well thanks for sharing. looking forward more info and maybe even photos. If I had two HDS lights I'd jump all over it. Having only one at present, there's a part of me that wants it to stay original. Still, it's tempting, and Milky's reputation is great. 

A while back there was a CPFer and flashlight maker that was kind enough to let members send in some lights for rating on an I.S. If it ever happens again, I'd love to see your mod rated.


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## boef800 (Jan 31, 2007)

Then the mod was a simple emitter swap?Even no elevating of the emitter necessary?Sounds like good news to me.Do you have no donut hole?
Asking because I have Seouls on the way for my U60.

Greetz Alex


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## Led_Blind (Jan 31, 2007)

No raising the emitter in this one as the only part that shows through the reflector is the emitter dome. 

I sanded abour 0.7mm from the back of the reflector. Without doing that the light was very floody. Now it has a nice intense hotspot with a gradual transition to spill..

Sorry about no photo's, no digicam  tho i could use the one in my phone if you dont mind crudy quality.


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## boef800 (Jan 31, 2007)

wow,cool.thanks for the info.how much more you would say the output has become?doubled?


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## derfyled (Jan 31, 2007)

Luxlover, thank's for the info.

Do you fell much more heat than before ? Did it change something in the thermal limititing feature ?


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

pcmike said:


> Forget the text, let's see pictures. It's 1am, no way I'm reading all that....


Mikey,
If you mean beamshots showing roughly twice the output, I am not sure if that will tell you anything. Regardless, I will be taking beamshots of other lights soon and I can "squeeze in" two more showing two white lights against a white wall, one being much brighter than the other. If you like looking at "virtual white tints", you will have them.

As for the text being so long and you nodding off.....get some rest man, and read it tomorrow. I will make sure that it is there waiting for you! :laughing: It will be worth your while. The details of this project cannot be related in a paragraph or two!  That is why it is the length of a short novel.

Jeff
Author


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

Icebreak said:


> :hahaha:This is important stuff, luxlover.
> 
> Would you consider editing your signature red text so my eyes don't bleed while I'm trying to read this? I'm trying to use a little humor in this request. That humor may be easily lost?
> 
> THX


I am glad that you acknowledge the true potential of my project, which I hope will motivate some of you to improve your lights before NovaTac's so called April/May release date.

Humor NOT easily lost, Sir. You know me to keep changing the color of my text when I get tired of looking at it, so that I can readily see my posts in a thread when quickly scrolling up or down. I hate "all black" posts. The former color was a brown derivative, not red. Are you sure that your eyeballs are in the proper socket.....i.e. right one in the right socket, and left one in the left socket? 

How is this blue color on your ocular blood flow? 

Jeff


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

majr said:


> The reflectors in the two lights may be identical, but the emission patterns may not be exactly the same. But if they look close enough to you, then it really doesn't make much difference. The only way to really tell short of an IS, would be some sort of lightbox setup.


Understood _majr_! The patterns look close enough, although the modded light has a smaller diameter hotspot.
Funny you should mention it!  My cpf buddy _jtr1962_ and I will be working on a lightbox using a 96 oz. Florida Natural Orange Juice container for "the box." It is pure white inside, and doesn't have the translucent strip under the handle to show remaining liquid level, as does the container used by Tropicana. It looks like a good host for the project. One hole needs to be bored in the side, for either the meter pickup or a light.


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## Esthan (Jan 31, 2007)

luxlover said:


> My cpf buddy _jtr1962_ and I will be working on a lightbox using a 96 oz. Florida Natural Orange Juice container for "the box." It is pure white inside, and doesn't have the translucent strip under the handle to show remaining liquid level, as does the container used by Tropicana. It looks like a good host for the project. One hole needs to be bored in the side, for either the meter pickup or a light.



It will be home, sweet home for the *Orange Peel *reflectors :laughing:


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

TorchMan said:


> Well thanks for sharing. looking forward more info and maybe even photos. If I had two HDS lights I'd jump all over it. Having only one at present, there's a part of me that wants it to stay original. Still, it's tempting, and Milky's reputation is great.
> 
> A while back there was a CPFer and flashlight maker that was kind enough to let members send in some lights for rating on an I.S. If it ever happens again, I'd love to see your mod rated.


Torch,
I quite understand you wanting your light to remain "a virgin." :laughing: It is a "one of a kind", never to be available again. Scott will be there if you change your mind. With every mod he completes, he gets the procedural part to be more accurate. Fortunately, the Seoul is just dropped into the heatsink bore where the Luxeon used to be. How about this shot of the front end, showing how perfectly the Seoul emitter sits within the reflector opening? It centers more perfectly than any Luxeon I have seen in any HDS light!


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

boef800 said:


> Then the mod was a simple emitter swap? Even no elevating of the emitter necessary?Sounds like good news to me.Do you have no donut hole?
> Asking because I have Seouls on the way for my U60.
> 
> Greetz Alex


Guten morgen Alex,
Correct, an even swap with no need to modify the reflector!

Regarding a donut hole after a Seoul modded HDS light......"what's a donut hole?" :naughty: 

I have never had a near death experience. But I think that when people claim that they have, they experienced the same white purity and visual perfection as I do when looking at my Seoul-_mated_ HDS light! :laughing: Sounds good, huh?


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

Esthan said:


> It will be home, sweet home for the *Orange Peel *reflectors. :laughing:


Esthan,
Just to make it clear, the stock mirror polished HDS reflector is retained as part of a Seoul-_mate _mod.  Therefore, it is time for your orange peel reflectors to be placed in a retirement community! :naughty:

Jeff


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

boef800 said:


> wow,cool.thanks for the info.how much more you would say the output has become?doubled?


Steve,
At the very least.....*doubled*! You may ask why I make this claim?

OK, first I took my U60 and set the four default brightness levels to 60, 42, 30, and 21 lumens. This was to see what levels on the modded light compare to those on the U60. Next, I did the same with the modded light. This was to see how many levels above the U60's 60lm level I could achieve after finding the 60lm level on the modded light.

I very much believe that through white wall and ceiling bounce testing, after I find the 60lm level on the modded light, I have two more levels before I reach it's maximum level. Since we all know that every two level increase on any HDS light represents a doubling of "perceived" output, this would place the modded light's maximum level at a minimum of 120lm (60 to 85 to 120). Of course, I was hoping that I was able to bump it up three levels to get to maximum.......and THAT would represent *at least a 170lm output* (60 to 85 to 120 to 170). That was not the case. Therefore, I am sure that my light is producing anywhere from 120lm to something less than 170lm. It is probably closer to 120 than to 170. I welcome comments challenging my logic.....

Once again, I feel the need to remind ALL OF YOU that the 120lm level will not always be achieved with this mod. Your light must have a lousy runtime to benefit from it. The worse the runtime, the better the gain! Also note that XR lights will benefit _the least_ from such a mod, because the difference between the efficiency of the stock Luxeon emitter and that of the Seoul emitter will be similar. We have all seen a few overachiever XR lights with long runtimes. My feeling is if one cannot get a light to produce a 120lm level after a Seoul-_mate _mod, a level claimed by NovaTac to be attainable in their next lights based on milkyspit's conversations at the Shot Show, then a Seoul-_mate_ mod is not cost effective for every HDS light owner! Having Scott do a mod is much cheaper than buying a $150 NovaTac light in April, May,......or whenever!  If interested, pm milkyspit for prices and timeframes. For the record, I am NOT in business with milkyspit, and I get no remuneration for my plugs on CPF.

Jeff


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

derfyled said:


> Luxlover, thank's for the info.
> 
> Do you feel much more heat than before? Did it change something in the thermal limiting feature?


Derfy,
According to all I have heard and read from Henry and others, the heat generated by the mod will remain the same as before, since the conversion of the cell's power is in terms of increased output. Remember that the emitter has the ability to give more lumens using the power supplied by the power supply. Henry is the only one who has the equipment to change the power seen by any emitter in a light, so the power seen by the Seoul emitter is the same as the power seen by the stock Luxeon emitter.

No additional heat is generated by the use of a Seoul emitter, and the runtime will remain the same as before the mod. What is nice about having a light that produces 120lm is that if one needs longer runtime than what they had before the mod, one can always drop down the level to 85 or 60 lumens and have plenty of light at their disposal! 

In time, I will generate a new levels/lumens table when I determine the maximum output of my light. I will measure the battery current draw at each brightness level and calculate the approximate runtime at that level. I am thinking of doing a runtime test in a body temperature water bath at the maximum level! 

Jeff


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## tebore (Jan 31, 2007)

Lux might I ask you why your Light has the armour all the way around but you don't have the Ti or SS bezel ring? That's like wearing full on body armour with out the helmet.

And C'mon BEAMMMM SHOTTSSSSS. It's like porn to us HDSaholics. That pic you posted is like a leg shot.


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## Esthan (Jan 31, 2007)

tebore said:


> And C'mon BEAMMMM SHOTTSSSSS. It's like porn to us HDSaholics. That pic you posted is like a leg shot.



:laughing:


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

tebore said:


> Lux, might I ask you why your light has the _armour_ all the way around, but you don't have the Ti or SS bezel ring? That's like wearing full on body _armour_ without a helmet.
> 
> And c'mon, BEAMMMM SHOTTSSSSS. It's like porn to us HDSaholics. That pic you posted is like a leg shot.


Haven't you seen my first light back in late 2005 with the so called _armour_? I do realize you became a CPF member in May 2006, but I have posted both of my lights donning different "_armour"_ since then. The tubes protect the light in a head first or tail first drop with it's 1/8" wall thickness. In addition, they help the user avoid fatigue when utilizing the cigar grip, and they allow tailstanding when the rubber button is not flat with the endcap's housing. As far as protection, I strongly believe that MY solution beats the SS or Ti lens retaining ring solution in a frontal drop. Has anybody thought of the repercussions of a frontal drop close to vertical where the SS or Ti ring will most probably crush the UCL glass upon impact? I have! Rubber will absorb more of an impact than metal! To be honest, I realize that the rare beauty of an HDS light si being hidden by my tactic, but I am a function over form thinker and i want my light to outlive me! :naughty:

I like your analogy! Let me guess......now that I gave you a little "leg shot" tease, you want me to post some T&A shots of the lights, right? Give me a few days to get you some sexy images, OK?

Jeff


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

Esthan said:


> :laughing:


Esthan,
You are one of the funniest posters on CPF. You and I surely appreciate _tebore's _post and we sympathize with him, don't we? I will be working on fulfilling his request.....

Jeff


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## Kid9P (Jan 31, 2007)

Lux,

What type of HDS did you have modded?

A U60 or an XR type ??

I just purchased a U60XRGT yesterday and this mod sounds great!!
Considering it's just an emmiter swap instead of changing reflectors,
I will PM Milky once I receive my light.

Lux, do you work in the city?? I would love to see it in person


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## Esthan (Jan 31, 2007)

Kid9P said:


> Lux, do you work in the city?? I would love to see it in person




This could be a good story for HDS. 

Two guys going down a dark and murky alley, stoping 
hyenas and chechen warriors with bright white beams :]
Add a good soundtrack, some fog, few girls and this 
could win an Oscar :]


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

Kid9P said:


> Lux,
> What type of HDS did you have modded?
> 
> A U60 or an XR type?
> ...


My modded light WAS a U60. Please read my first post and you will see many references to the modded and unmodded lights.

Listen to this guy! We both live in NYC and all of a sudden I have a partner! :laughing: 

Unless your U60XRGT is not truly an XR light, meaning that it has a poor runtime despite the specs., it will NOT be a candidate for Seoul-_mating _because the output increase will not be what I received in my mod. You will surely get more than 60lm, and you may get 100 or so, but higher than that is unlikely. I repeat that the power supply cannot be adjusted by anyone but Henry, and you must have a robust power level to gain a robust output increase. The sad thing is that without opening ip the head and taking voltage and current readings at the present emitter, you will never know what you will gain by installing a Seoul.

Lux doesn't work in the city, but he lives in Brooklyn near the Atlantic Ocean. Where are you located in the Big Apple NYC?

Jeff


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## luxlover (Jan 31, 2007)

Esthan said:


> This could be a good story for HDS.
> 
> Two guys going down a dark and murky alley, stoping
> hyenas and chechen warriors with bright white beams :]
> ...


Did somebody mention a "few girls" were going to be commissioned for the production?  We can offer perfect soundtrack additions......ambulances, police cars, fire engines........and car alarms! All action packed sounds. Sorry Esthan, but we don't have any hyenas or Chechen warriors in the Big Apple! Can we substitute hoodlums, crooks, thieves, muggers, dogs, cats, rats, mice or squirrels in the cast?


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## tebore (Jan 31, 2007)

luxlover said:


> Sorry Esthan, but we don't have any hyenas or Chechen warriors in the Big Apple! Can we substitute hoodlums, crooks, thieves, muggers, dogs, cats, rats, mice or squirrels in the cast?


 
So production will be easy. Just get a camera to follow you around the streets at night. As for the girls we simply take a walk down the redlight district. :laughing:


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## Esthan (Jan 31, 2007)

luxlover said:


> Did somebody mention a "few girls" were going to be commissioned for the production?  We can offer perfect soundtrack additions......ambulances, police cars, fire engines........and car alarms! All action packed sounds. Sorry Esthan, but we don't have any hyenas or Chechen warriors in the Big Apple! Can we substitute hoodlums, crooks, thieves, muggers, dogs, cats, rats, mice or squirrels in the cast?



It'll be hard to put them in, but i'll try.

The new HDS story.

Hello HDS Systems, my name is NotSoAverage Joe and Contrary to 
my CPF mates, I'm a black wall hunter. You know, hanging around 
dark alleys trying to illuminate things that enjoy basking in darkness. 

I clearly remeber that night, it was very foggy. It was that kind of 
fog that doesn't allow You to see much, but it allows you to hear 
hear more then you wish. The air was cold, and full of police sirens. 
I've been going from Big Apple to Small Grape to see my fruity friend
Kid9P. He was anxious to see my new Seoul P4 reinforced U60 in 
action. I meant to show him a lot.

There wasn't much happening untill I've reached Medium Citrone,
the only place in NYC where You could actually buy some love.
Streets were badly lit, and full of bautiful girls that wanted to 
part you from the money that could be invested in a 72 pack of
SF lithiums, just the way I like it. 
By the time I reached Banana Avenue, things started to get nasty.
I heard the screams of some hoodlum who got badly bitten by a 
mad dog, and the shouts of the ambulance crew who were trying 
to call him out of the dark hole he called home. Those fools came 
to Medium Citrone looking for a former crook, armed with almost 
dead FagMag's. I decided to help them. I turned my Pimped Up
HDS on the Max setting, and overflooded the area with a godly
white light. Muggers and rats, as if possessed by a devil scurried 
away from the holy beam leaving the smelly rests for the ever 
hungry mice. 

Not being accustomed to the divine beam of my HDS the rescuers 
stood blinded not knowing what to do with themselves,
so I switched to primary. 

After few minutes of searching we were able to find the smelly victim. 
I saw the hyena repellent resting sticking out from one of his countless 
pockets, but it couldn't do much without lithiums in it. 
I stayed with them a while, with all those rings and artifacts from
their FagMag's i was afraid that they could to him some harm while 
stiching. But with the blessed light of my HDS, everything went fine.

So once again, I found myself to be on my way to Kid9P. Somewhere 
around Plum Square I needed to help the fire crew to get a cat of the 
tree it climbed, crazy beast was probably trying to hunt a squirrel down.
The fire engines weren't equipped with enough lumenpower to illuminate 
that by now mad furrball, so I helped them a bit with the max setting.
By the time the badly scratched hero came down to hand over the insane 
creature to an old lady, I heard a Car Alarm getting triggered.
It took the thief 2 seconds to grab the radio. Impressive. 
But not as impressive as the 500 miliseconds it took me to blind 
him with 120 Lumens of White Beam of Justice. 
Sucker didn't have a chance, blinded as was, he ran into a lantern.
Suprizingly for Plum Square, he was enjoying the hospitality of a 
police car after 2 minutes. I just love the sound of the police sirens 
dying away in the fog.

Kid9P loved the light, and I ? I love the adventure it brings.

Yours trully,

NotSoAverage Joe


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## acusifu (Jan 31, 2007)

Luxlover I appreciate you explaining that the U60GTXR is really not a candidate for the upgrade. I PM'ed milkyspit about the details. I guess this answers all my questions, crap I want a 120lm HDS now not whenever


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## paxxus (Jan 31, 2007)

I believe Led_Blind's light WAS an U60XRGT, ha claims more than 120lm after the mod.


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## Pumaman (Jan 31, 2007)

milky has my b42xr. i will report on the results when it returns.


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## Icebreak (Jan 31, 2007)

luxlover said:


> I am glad that you acknowledge the true potential of my project, which I hope will motivate some of you to improve your lights before NovaTac's so called April/May release date.
> 
> Humor NOT easily lost, Sir. You know me to keep changing the color of my text when I get tired of looking at it, so that I can readily see my posts in a thread when quickly scrolling up or down. I hate "all black" posts. The former color was a brown derivative, not red. Are you sure that your eyeballs are in the proper socket.....i.e. right one in the right socket, and left one in the left socket?
> 
> ...



Hyperlink Blue is an improvement over dried blood which the board calls dark red, I guess. Off-white text on shaded background would be better. Black text on white background is good.

Thanks for the effort and the info.


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## Casual Flashlight User (Feb 1, 2007)

> Esthan...
> 
> Hello HDS Systems, my name is NotSoAverage Joe and Contrary to
> my CPF mates, I'm a black wall hunter. You know, hanging around
> ...


 
Fantastic!







CFU


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## boef800 (Feb 1, 2007)

luxlover said:


> Guten morgen Alex,
> Correct, an even swap with no need to modify the reflector!
> 
> Regarding a donut hole after a Seoul modded HDS light......"what's a donut hole?" :naughty:
> ...


Thanks Jeff,
Yesterday my Seouls arrived,and I'm not sure how much brighter my U60GT became.Compared with other lights I'm more or less sure it's a bit brighter on level one but maybe not 120.

Alex


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## luxlover (Feb 1, 2007)

Icebreak said:


> Hyperlink Blue is an improvement over dried blood which the board calls "dark red", I guess. Off-white text on shaded background would be better. Black text on white background is good.
> 
> Thanks for the effort and the info.


Iceman,
I rather like this color "transwarp drive *blue". *But it is so close to natural *black* that I must continue to use hyperlink *blue*. I like to stand out in a post, definitely not for ego purposes but rather for post identification purposes.

Jeff


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## luxlover (Feb 1, 2007)

boef800 said:


> Thanks Jeff,
> Yesterday my Seouls arrived, and I'm not sure how much brighter my U60GT has become. Compared with other lights, I'm more or less sure it's a bit brighter on level one.......but maybe not 120.
> 
> Alex


Alex,
Unless the emitter on your light was close to an XR qualified one, even though the light is not an XR model, you may have gained about twice the output. If you can remain patient until I have completed my procedure as described in post #1, I will have a "better than ballpark" figure, but not an "actual" figure for my modded light. If I think that my procedure is sound and you have a luxmeter to do the test, then I would ask you to do what I have done with your light.

Jeff


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## tebore (Feb 1, 2007)

I wonder if the people with XR lights would gain more with a T-bin H rated vf SSC than the U-bin J rated vf. Sort of like when people used SxxH instead of UxxJs in their lights when they found out the head could be opened.


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## boef800 (Feb 1, 2007)

sorry,no luxmeter by now.
my U60GT had 30 minutes runtime on the MP rechargebles,so I guess it was neither a burner nor an undercover XR.
But I've put a TWOH and for tryieng it out latley an SWOH in the light.And I think because of that I can anyway hardly tell it for sure.

Alex


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## majr (Feb 1, 2007)

tebore - remember that the S**H were lux1 binned at 350mA and the U**J were lux3 binned at 700mA, so they are not quite as comparable.


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## tebore (Feb 1, 2007)

majr said:


> tebore - remember that the S**H were lux1 binned at 350mA and the U**J were lux3 binned at 700mA, so they are not quite as comparable.


 
That's the point. Screw the mA rating it was about the H vf rating. The B42s used Lux I. The SSCs use 350mA so in the rating so it's the vf that matters now.


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## Mike abcd (Feb 1, 2007)

luxlover said:


> Alex,
> Unless the emitter on your light was close to an XR qualified one, even though the light is not an XR model, you may have gained about twice the output. If you can remain patient until I have completed my procedure as described in post #1, I will have a "better than ballpark" figure, but not an "actual" figure for my modded light. If I think that my procedure is sound and you have a luxmeter to do the test, then I would ask you to do what I have done with your light.
> 
> Jeff



I'd be surprised if HDS lights hit 120 lumens after being modified with an SSC or Cree emitter. That could only happen if the stock emitter was pretty poor, something I wouldn't expect from HDS. 110 lumens I definitely believe for many lights. 120 lumens, possible but unlikely. Significantly north of 120 lumens, not possible. Based on the decent run time of your light, I'd guess maybe 110, certainly near that.

The methods you've posted for checking your modified lights output will make a beam with more throw measure brighter than it is. At a minimum, you need a simple light box where you are only measuring reflected light and where the hot spot is not reflecting directly back to the sensor.

Doug at flashlight reviews has info on his "milk carton" light box here that has stood the test of time over many lights.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/features/lightbox_output.htm

Even better would be a large white styrofoam cooler with the light aimed into a corner (45 deg from each side's surface) and the sensor positioned at the other end. BTW, I've noticed a light of light "leaks" into the cooler and test in a dark room to avoid that causing errors.

Mike


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## Mike abcd (Feb 1, 2007)

majr said:


> tebore - remember that the S**H were lux1 binned at 350mA and the U**J were lux3 binned at 700mA, so they are not quite as comparable.



The Vf may have a significant impact on run time but shouldn't on brightness (P=V*I). The HDS lights are current regulated and should hit both the old Lux and new SSC/Cree emitters with the same current regardless of the Vf.

Mike


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## Icebreak (Feb 1, 2007)

Before SHOT Scott Creemated my U60 GT with a Cree P4-WH. When stock, this light's best runtime on level 1 (highest) was 11 minutes. No light meter so I don't know if it attained 120lu or better with the modification so I'm just saying easily 100+lu. IOWs it's surprisingly and significantly brighter.

I'm sure your Seoul w/stock reflector will have a tighter beam so a homemade IS for your project would be a good way to compare Seouls to Crees, torches to torches.

Interesting that a weak point in my GT ends up making a strong point. I would imagine it was pumping out some juice to get that GT to work. Using 4 different lots of BS cells, none of them could handle it. SFs were the fix. Still haven't tried RCR123s but I may have to because I'm using this light much more now than before it was modded.

Interesting project, luxlover.


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## Reima (Feb 1, 2007)

Mike abcd said:


> The HDS lights are current regulated and should hit both the old Lux and new SSC/Cree emitters with the same current regardless of the Vf.
> 
> Mike


That's not correct, according to Henry they are constant power.
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1450473&postcount=106
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1570917&postcount=185
RC


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## Mike abcd (Feb 1, 2007)

Reima said:


> That's not correct, according to Henry they are constant power.
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1450473&postcount=106
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1570917&postcount=185
> RC



Thanks for the correction. I've browsed this forum occasionally but missed that.

I'm actually a bit surprised they chose to regulate power instead of current since Vf drops with increasing die temperature.

Mike


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## wasBlinded (Feb 1, 2007)

Mike abcd said:


> Thanks for the correction. I've browsed this forum occasionally but missed that.
> 
> I'm actually a bit surprised they chose to regulate power instead of current since Vf drops with increasing die temperature.
> 
> Mike


 
Light output at constant current also drops with increasing die temperature. Perhaps it was an attempt to keep light output more nearly constant as the die heats up.


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## Blindasabat (Feb 1, 2007)

luxlover said:


> ...I must continue to use hyperlink *blue*. I like to stand out in a post, definitely not for ego purposes but rather for post identification purposes.
> Jeff


Make an Avatar. It is even easier to see.


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## Led_Blind (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi all, yes they are power regulated so if the lux was driven at 2 wats then so will the Cree or Seul

All HDS lights are excelent candidates for upgrades regardless of XR or not. The reason is simply the 2x efficacy of the new die. Sure non XR's will see the greatest improvement but that does not mean there will be no improvement with the XR models. 

Think of it this way. The most efficient lux 1 kicks out around 50 lm at one watt. The Seul's do about 100lm per watt. So even if you had the most efficient lux3 and are getting 60Lm out the front, then expect around 120 after the seul upgrade.

On MP700 mah cells i see about 40 mins of runtime on high.


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## ScottyJ (Feb 3, 2007)

My question would be how are the runtimes effected? For example, my primary mode is set to 21 lumens, so lets say that for me to get 21 lumens out of the modded light I would maybe have it on the 10 lumen setting in the non-modded light? So I would get the runtime of 10 lumens on a stock HDS but I would really be getting 21 on the modded HDS. Does that make sense? 

I love the brightness as much as anybody, but I hardly ever use 60 lumens, so I would love to have all kinds of runtime on the lower levels.


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## Oddjob (Feb 3, 2007)

I believe you are correct ScottyJ.


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## milkyspit (Feb 3, 2007)

ScottyJ said:


> My question would be how are the runtimes effected? For example, my primary mode is set to 21 lumens, so lets say that for me to get 21 lumens out of the modded light I would maybe have it on the 10 lumen setting in the non-modded light? So I would get the runtime of 10 lumens on a stock HDS but I would really be getting 21 on the modded HDS. Does that make sense?
> 
> I love the brightness as much as anybody, but I hardly ever use 60 lumens, so I would love to have all kinds of runtime on the lower levels.




ScottyJ, I believe this is one of those situations you could look at either way... your U60 effectively turns into a U125 (or whatever) with about the same runtime as before... OR you can get that 60 lumens at a much lower drive level, so your runtime effectively doubles. Works either way! 

It's kind of ironic, but my own U60 has the old-style, non-removable reflector and therefore is one of the poorest candidates for SEOULmation.  Anybody want to trade a nice B42 to me in exchange for my U60? :naughty:


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## acusifu (Feb 3, 2007)

Milky PM your way.


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## NoFair (Feb 3, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> ScottyJ, I believe this is one of those situations you could look at either way... your U60 effectively turns into a U125 (or whatever) with about the same runtime as before... OR you can get that 60 lumens at a much lower drive level, so your runtime effectively doubles. Works either way!
> 
> It's kind of ironic, but my own U60 has the old-style, non-removable reflector and therefore is one of the poorest candidates for SEOULmation.  Anybody want to trade a nice B42 to me in exchange for my U60? :naughty:



Hi Milky

Did you have to alter the stock reflector much when using a Seoul? 

I have one of the first B60s released and the reflector is non-removable. 
Access to the light engine is easy by unscrewing it from the rear of the light.

If there is little need for reflector alteration the older ones should be good candidates as well? I put a better Luxeon in mine with no difficulty...

I do also have a dinged up Q3 that could donate it's reflector, but do you know whether it would be easy to drill/cut out the old one? I'd rather avoid this.

Sverre

PS! The MC Shorty is still going strong


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## rmcnelly (Feb 3, 2007)

Led_Blind said:


> No raising the emitter in this one as the only part that shows through the reflector is the emitter dome.
> 
> I sanded abour 0.7mm from the back of the reflector. Without doing that the light was very floody. Now it has a nice intense hotspot with a gradual transition to spill.



How difficult would this be for someone with fair soldering skill, to do? How would I get the Seoul emitter?


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## NoFair (Feb 4, 2007)

rmcnelly said:


> How difficult would this be for someone with fair soldering skill, to do? How would I get the Seoul emitter?



Both PhotonFanatic and AW sell them in the dealers section. Price is more or less the same, but PhotonFanatic's are a warmer tint. 

Sverre


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## milkyspit (Feb 4, 2007)

NoFair said:


> Hi Milky
> 
> Did you have to alter the stock reflector much when using a Seoul?
> 
> ...




Well, yes and no on the reflector. Not modifying the reflector at all CAN work, but the emitter needs to be mounted in there about as tightly as possible to bring the dome as far into the stock reflector as you can... then you'll need to diffuse the output enough to blend the colors nicely, but not enough to destroy the light's throw... end result will be a beam that won't focus until it's about 12 inches away from the target (stock with Luxeon focuses at almost no distance at all) but is otherwise very nice, at least IMHO. 

*Also... good news: I've figured out how to do the HDS SEOULmation mod with the older, non-removable reflector lights as well! Now any HDS is a candidate for the upgrade.*

The followup to the above is that I've finally SEOULmated my personal U60! WOOHOO!


Oh, and glad you're diggin' the MC Shorty!


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## rmcnelly (Feb 4, 2007)

NoFair said:


> Both PhotonFanatic and AW sell them in the dealers section. Price is more or less the same, but PhotonFanatic's are a warmer tint.
> 
> Sverre



Thanks!


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## Led_Blind (Feb 5, 2007)

Its a damn fine upgrade path.... Anyone who owns a HDS light should be doing this upgrade.


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## acusifu (Feb 5, 2007)

I am sending my U60GTXR to MilkySpit for modding tomorrow. I hope it turns out well I love the perfect beam,tint. I just want More power out of the end and perfect beam,tint of course. We shall see I will post after the magic mod is returned.


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## NoFair (Feb 5, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> Well, yes and no on the reflector. Not modifying the reflector at all CAN work, but the emitter needs to be mounted in there about as tightly as possible to bring the dome as far into the stock reflector as you can... then you'll need to diffuse the output enough to blend the colors nicely, but not enough to destroy the light's throw... end result will be a beam that won't focus until it's about 12 inches away from the target (stock with Luxeon focuses at almost no distance at all) but is otherwise very nice, at least IMHO.
> 
> *Also... good news: I've figured out how to do the HDS SEOULmation mod with the older, non-removable reflector lights as well! Now any HDS is a candidate for the upgrade.*
> 
> ...



Thanks Milky!

I think I'll remove a wee bit off the bottom of the reflector. I looked at fitting a different Seoul a long while back and it was slightly larger than a Luxeon. I'm hoping the P4s are closer in size...

I'll try a bit before whipping out a Dremel though

Did you remove or alter the reflector in you HDS?

Sverre


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## Reima (Feb 10, 2007)

I recently got 3 U Bin Seoul P4's from Hotbeam. I selected the one with the lowest Vf (3.3V) to put in my HDS. The result is impressive with the stock reflector. In my homemade light box I get 2730 lux, my stock HDS U60 measures 1380 lux in the lightbox. The beam is floody just like my Aleph A19 with a Cree.
I tried a McR 20 Joker with the light and get a 7% increase in measured output (2940 Lux).
RC


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## Blades (Mar 1, 2007)

Pumaman said:


> milky has my b42xr. i will report on the results when it returns.




How did your light turn out??


Blades


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## cratz2 (Mar 1, 2007)

I just sent my Basic 42GT today. I can't wait! It's my most used light and if you have a multiple level light, brighter with no loss of runtime on the highest level is always a good thing.

I mostly plan on lowering each of the other levels to get about the same brightness as stock, but with longer runtimes.


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## GLADIUSX1 (Mar 4, 2007)

Great job to the modder,for point of interest only I am doing the same thing to the Gladius,both the HDS and the GLADIUS are without a debt the two best conceived of light's ever made and to take them both to the next supreme level will always be the altimate goal.if you care to look link below.we should all share.
:goodjob:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/153447

*GLADIUSX1*


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## Blades (Mar 25, 2007)

How are these modded lights working for everyone??
I am thinking about sending my basic 60 into Milky to get it "kicked up a notch!"
Thanks!!



Blades


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## Oddjob (Mar 25, 2007)

Blades,
Very happy with my upgrade. It is noticeably brighter. I was at first hesitant because I had an XRGT but the tint on my seoul mod is great and the beam quality is the same as it was before the mod.


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## Blades (Mar 26, 2007)

Oddjob,
Thanks for the feedback. I had talked to Milky about it before, so maybe it is time.

Blades


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## luxlover (Jun 2, 2007)

Let's get this thread rolling again. Surely some of you have had their HDS lights modded since March 26th?*
BUMP.....*


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## luxlover (Jun 14, 2007)

Is anybody out there......._*HELLO!*_

* BUMP.....*


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## Icebreak (Jun 14, 2007)

Selling mine. Ordered a 229 Elite and need some extra funds for the eliteness. Mine operated flawlessly with beautiful color and truly impressive power. Hate to let it go.


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## John_Galt (Dec 18, 2009)

Hello, sorry to drag this thread up again, but by chance did anyone ask MilkySpit what current the original emitter was seeing?

I'm considering purchasing a 42XRGT on the marketplace, and was wondering what the expected output could be with a modern emitter...

Thanks!


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## Blindasabat (Dec 19, 2009)

I think somebody recently posted (last couple of weeks) some current measurements in one of the recent Novatac/HDS K2 mod threads. Really tough to do that measurement on the HDS with two contact paths. I thought I remembered high being around 900mA...? But that might have been for a U60. I think the 42's ran less current.

I still use and enjoy my Milky U60 SSC USVOH all the time. I'm only now thinking about a U2SUMH upgrade, but that's likely not my best use of the three USUMH I have coming to me. My U60 is great the way it is.


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## milkyspit (Dec 19, 2009)

John_Galt said:


> Hello, sorry to drag this thread up again, but by chance did anyone ask MilkySpit what current the original emitter was seeing?
> 
> I'm considering purchasing a 42XRGT on the marketplace, and was wondering what the expected output could be with a modern emitter...
> 
> Thanks!



Hi John,

I've never measured the output current and until recent months didn't have the proper equipment to do it right. (You'd want to use a very precise DC inductive clamp meter.) What I have measured was the relative output before and after surgery, using a special rig that approximates lumen outputs for HDS-style lights. In general the 60 series upgrades to a brighter output than the 42 series, and the XR lights tend to run at somewhat lower output current than the non-XR lights. But it's not an exact science. One of my best upgrades took place with a 42XR, if memory serves. (Maybe it wasn't an XR, don't remember for sure... was *definitely* a 42.) I'd guesstimate your prospective light could see 2-4 times the stock lumens, with the determining factors on just how much brighter you get having to do with which LED you use, how good a piece your LED is within its specified bin, and luck of the draw in terms of the host you start with.


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