# Experience with P91 high output



## BigBaller (Aug 3, 2006)

Anyone here fancy their 9P or C3 with the P91 200 lumen lamp? I was thinking of putting together a little 9 volt lightsaber for carry in a horizontal holster. What do you use yours for? How would you carry it? Any pros or cons other than the obvious runtime difference?


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## ericg533 (Aug 3, 2006)

From what I've heard the P91 doesn't have much better throw than the P90. It's more of a high intensity flood light.


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## NotRegulated (Aug 3, 2006)

Oh Yeah, the P91. It's a great lamp. I am running a P91 off of two AW 18650 li-on rechargables. The tube is a custom 2x18650 with C adaptor by TranquillityBase. But you don't need a custom tube. I also use an A19 adaptor on my 9P ( or two A19 adaptors on my 6P) with two AW 17670 li-on rechargable batteries to power the P91.
While it is true that it doesn't throw any farther than a P90, it sure provides a hugh amount light with much larger hotspot than the P90. The P91 is pretty impressive and you will quickly become addicted. The rechargables provide "guilt free" lumens. Now these setups above are a little longer than a C3 or 9P with primary CR123's but you will get a much longer runtime and the beam will stay bright white for the entire duration. I highly recommend it. Others on CPF are doing the same thing and I would bet they are all very happy with their setups.


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## wquiles (Aug 3, 2006)

I agree pretty much with everything that NR just said above as I have the same identical setup - fantastic beam. However, the only one negative that I have found in this combo (and why I prefer the P90 or the HP-9V bulbs) is that after 10-15 minutes it gets too hot for me to hold on confortably


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## Omega Man (Aug 3, 2006)

The 2 guys above me just said it. It's a little long, and heats up real quick, but 2x17670s is nice.


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## dasanii19 (Aug 4, 2006)

Omega Man said:


> The 2 guys above me just said it. It's a little long, and heats up real quick, but 2x17670s is nice.


 
So 2X17670 X A19 on a 6p with a p91 lamp would be a nice setup? Ive sold all my lamps off now and have nothing so I would like a nice suggestion for my 6p, I already have an A19 but now just need to know what lamp and what rechargables to get, can someone setup me up here? Ill order tomorrow.. Thanks.. I dont care really what you suggest, but prefferably practical, some what long run time (around 40-50+ mins), and bright!!! durable reliable and all that other stuff.. Please make this an easy decision for me guys.. Pleeeesee pleeeaassee please I beg of you lol...


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## ericg533 (Aug 4, 2006)

dasanii19 said:


> So 2X17670 X A19 on a 6p with a p91 lamp would be a nice setup? Ive sold all my lamps off now and have nothing so I would like a nice suggestion for my 6p, I already have an A19 but now just need to know what lamp and what rechargables to get, can someone setup me up here? Ill order tomorrow.. Thanks.. I dont care really what you suggest, but prefferably practical, some what long run time (around 40-50+ mins), and bright!!! durable reliable and all that other stuff.. Please make this an easy decision for me guys.. Pleeeesee pleeeaassee please I beg of you lol...



You would need 2 cell extenders to use 2 17670s on a 6p.


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## firefly99 (Aug 4, 2006)

BigBaller said:


> Anyone here fancy their 9P or C3 with the P91 200 lumen lamp? I was thinking of putting together a little 9 volt lightsaber for carry in a horizontal holster. What do you use yours for? How would you carry it? Any pros or cons other than the obvious runtime difference?


I had a 9P with P91. Impressive beam much brighter hotspot. But does not throw any further than P90. For whitewall. Shelf queen.

Adding a KT2 turbo head would increase the throw.


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## Omega Man (Aug 4, 2006)

dasanii19 said:


> So 2X17670 X A19 on a 6p with a p91 lamp would be a nice setup? Ive sold all my lamps off now and have nothing so I would like a nice suggestion for my 6p, I already have an A19 but now just need to know what lamp and what rechargables to get, can someone setup me up here? Ill order tomorrow.. Thanks.. I dont care really what you suggest, but prefferably practical, some what long run time (around 40-50+ mins), and bright!!! durable reliable and all that other stuff.. Please make this an easy decision for me guys.. Pleeeesee pleeeaassee please I beg of you lol...


The A19 is on a C3, with two 17670s. I think I got close to an hours runtime total,atleast. I could only run it about 20 mins before it got riduculously hot. Hot enough that I was having a problem finding a surface I was comfortable laying the thing down on. Eventualy stuck it on a open window sill to cool.


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## powernoodle (Aug 4, 2006)

Same here as the rest of you folks. I've got a 6P+(2xA19)+P91+(2xPila168S). Its a great light, and one of the few from my arsenal that actually gets some regular use. I'd say its a good light for just about anything outdoors under 50 or 75 yards, as its a good combo of throwy and floody.

cheers


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## NotRegulated (Aug 4, 2006)

wquiles said:


> I agree pretty much with everything that NR just said above as I have the same identical setup - fantastic beam. However, the only one negative that I have found in this combo (and why I prefer the P90 or the HP-9V bulbs) is that after 10-15 minutes it gets too hot for me to hold on confortably


 
I will have to agree this setup gets hot with extended use. I am even using the M2 head on my setup. The last time I did a runtime test/battery recycle on the thing it was so hot I couldn't pick it up. Even the whole tube was hot. 
I don't typically use it for such long durations so it's not a problem. If you anticipate using it regularly for long durations I would second wquiles suggestion of using the P90 or Digilite Hp-9v. In fact, I have another similar setup with the P90 in it for just this purpose.


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## kelmo (Aug 4, 2006)

Hey BigBaller,

I have a 9P and use a P91 lamp to spot trails on night hikes. Its very useful when I trailblaze and light the path for the rest of the group. 

I prefer the P90 for the day to day stuff though. I carry my light in a SF V10 holster. Its an older one without the logo on the outside. 

kelmo


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## Jvalera (Aug 4, 2006)

gOT A 9P + A19 + 2X 17670 + M2 bEZEL + BLU FM FILTER = AHHH

DOUBLES AS A MACE:naughty:


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## fire-stick (Aug 4, 2006)

Does the C3/HOLA and li-ion's work on first click. I read somewhere that the HOLA was too much amperage for the li-ion's.


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## NotRegulated (Aug 4, 2006)

Some of the older batteries and some 17500's don't work on the first click with the P91. For example I was using two older Pila 17500's in my 9P with the P91 and needed to double click. This is one of the reasons I moved to two 17670's instead of two 17500's at the time. However, now, all of AW's new protected 18650's, 17670's, and 17500's will work with one click with the P91. (All of AW's cells work with one click until the batteries get almost totally depleated.)


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## pete7226 (Aug 4, 2006)

P91 brighter hotspot, not much though. Gets yellow after about 10 30-45 second bursts such as on a traffic stop. Have used the p90 bulb for the last 10 years. Short run-time of p91 isnt worth it for me, and carrying 3 lights is too much too ask with 30lbs of gear I'm already wearing. My second light is a tl2 led for vehicle searching. M4 for building/field searching. A rechargeable option is the way to go if youre stuck on this bulb.


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## wquiles (Aug 4, 2006)

Some more data points:

In the evenings I got out with my little girl for a walk in our neightborhood. I normally take either my A2 (with rechargeables, of course!) or my 2x18650 TB custom tube with M2 bezel and HP-9V. My walks are about 20-30 minutes tipical.

The A2 sometimes gets pretty warm after our walks. Not umberable, but definitely very warm.

The P90 or HP-9V are almost perfect for this role, given the huge battery capacity of the 2x18650 cells - flat discharge rate. Not as white beam as the A2, but certainly brighter.

The P91 out of the same 2x18650 is "expectacular" - not throw wise, but lumens wise. Great beam. It just gets too darn hot. I tried twice and stop using it altogether - not worth the heat!

Today, now that I have a regulated M6-R(7.5V) pack for my M6, I used the new MN20 bulb, which is approx. 300 lumens. It is a stunning beam, even brighter than the P91, and with significant more throw, but given the larger mass on the M6, the fact that the reflector is floating and isolated from the bezel, and finally, given the heat disipating rings on the M6 and KT4 bezel, after the 20min walk, the M6 was warm but still confortable. True, with this pack I only have about 1/2 hour runtime, but it is a stunning white, and constant output until the warning pulses arrive, which is perfect for my walks at night 

Will


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Aug 7, 2006)

These guys have said it all. The P91 will not give you a "lightsaber." It _will_ give you a wall of white light surpassed (in such a slim body) only by a 12V Digilight or 12V/13V G&P, Wolf Eyes, or Pila.

If you want "lightsaber" throw in a slim body, you need a Streamlight TL-3 or a tactical body with a miniturbo head (41 to 43mm) or turbo head (50+ mm). Or a custom light, such as one of the crazy-bright offerings by FiveMega.


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## stuartyr (Aug 8, 2006)

Here is a copy of a post I did with beamshots on BB that may be of use. 

I think its unfair to say the P91 doesn't throw further than the P90 :O




mojofilter said:


> Ok, I have managed to skive for long enough to do some comparitive beamshots!
> 
> The HP lamp falls somewhere between the P90 and the P91. It is hard to compare it directly for light output with the surefire lamps because the beam is much more tightly focused, so most of the lumens are going into the hotspot rather than spilling out to the side. It is definatly brighter than the P90, but as you can see its much more of a spot beam than the semi flood of the P90. The P91 is still the undisputed heavyweight champion tho....
> 
> ...


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## ResQTech (Aug 8, 2006)

Just to get things straight. I bought 3 protected 17670's for my 2 L4's. I also have a Z3. I can use two 17670's + A19 + P90/P91?

What is the runtime on the P90 and P91 with AW's cells? 
Any noticable decrease in bulb life?
Do you run the lights until the low voltage protection kicks in?
To run this setup safely, you would have to use two fully charged cells initially right?

AW's cells are great! Since I got them for my L4's, I've been trying to find what else they'll fit in to!


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## BigBaller (Aug 12, 2006)

I got a 9P put together.. it most certainly is a wall of light! The area illumination is spectacular with a P91, very wide and bright with good throw too.. now all I need is guilt free lumens. 
What batteries do I get to use in a 9P with no extender? I dont want it to be any longer than a 3 cell tube. Thanks again all. :rock:


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## Bryan (Aug 12, 2006)

BigBaller said:


> I got a 9P put together.. it most certainly is a wall of light! The area illumination is spectacular with a P91, very wide and bright with good throw too.. now all I need is guilt free lumens.
> What batteries do I get to use in a 9P with no extender? I dont want it to be any longer than a 3 cell tube. Thanks again all. :rock:


 
I have done quite a bit of research on this (searched all the past threads) and found that a pair of Wolf Eyes 150b cells will light up on the first click. There are some other cells that will work but will require double or tripple clicking to get it to light up. AW's new cells were supposed to work with one tap but that doesn't seem to be the case (sometimes they won't even work with multiple tapping). Older Pila cells would work but usually required double tapping as well. I'm going with the WE's myself. I am like you and don't want to add an extender (which is what most people will recommend). I am willing to sacrifice runtime to keep the original length. One member stated the WE's seemed to run the P91 brighter than primaries!


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## mdocod (Aug 13, 2006)

running a P91 in a 3 cell case on a pair of 17500(same size as Wolf-eyes 150b) is considered "over the limit" of li-ion chemistry, which is not meant to be drained any faster than "2C" meaning.. for that size cell, that's usually around 2amps.. sometimes a little more... a P91 draws up to 2.7 amps from a pair of fresh li-ions... runtime would be about 15 minuts or less, and the betteries would not last the "hundreds of cycles" that they would normally..... 2x17670 sized cells should be considered the *safe* minimum for the P91...


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## BigBaller (Aug 13, 2006)

I'm a little confused now. If a 4-cell length 9P uses 2x17670 then how does a 3-cell length M3T use 2x17670s?


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## Bryan (Aug 13, 2006)

mdocod said:


> running a P91 in a 3 cell case on a pair of 17500(same size as Wolf-eyes 150b) is considered "over the limit" of li-ion chemistry, which is not meant to be drained any faster than "2C" meaning.. for that size cell, that's usually around 2amps.. sometimes a little more... a P91 draws up to 2.7 amps from a pair of fresh li-ions... runtime would be about 15 minuts or less, and the betteries would not last the "hundreds of cycles" that they would normally..... 2x17670 sized cells should be considered the *safe* minimum for the P91...


 
Like I said, I'm willing to sacrifice runtime just to keep the stock look of the 9P. It's just one of those lights I would use for checking out odd noises at night (maybe a minute or two of use). The cells will pay for themselves after about 8 charge cycles anyway, so I won't be too concerned about them not making the hundreds of cycles under normal conditions.


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 13, 2006)

BigBaller, he was suggesting 2X17670's as best option fo run LiIon's with P91, which would be the M3T, with one A19 extension, or other suitable 1XCR123 extension. To keep profile of M3T, and have good output, the use of two unprotected 17500's would be best. Of course, ASAP switch out cells when light begins to dim noticeably, so unprotected cells do not discharge too far. Use of Pila 300S' would be good also, as they can tolerate higher amp drain.

Bill


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## a99raptors (Aug 20, 2006)

I tried running 2 of Aw's new protected 17670 in a 6P + 2A19 + P91. The P91 cannot light up in one click. Two rapid clicks needed.


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## Bryan (Aug 20, 2006)

a99raptors said:


> I tried running 2 of Aw's new protected 17670 in a 6P + 2A19 + P91. The P91 cannot light up in one click. Two rapid clicks needed.


That seems to be the case with all of his new cells and the P91, even though they claim to fire on one click.


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## BargainMonkey (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm also having to double click with AW's newest 17670's. Haven't been using it too long, but it isn't too big of a deal yet.


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## Tritium (Aug 21, 2006)

Who has A19 adapters inn stock? Have not been able to find one so far.


Thurmond


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## GadgetTravel (Aug 21, 2006)

I use Pilas in my 9P with the P91 and love it. I use it a lot around the house and yard. I dont need much throw there. I have a T3 if I need a bit more throw but the T3 is not as bright. I still smile everytime I double click on my 9P. It really is a wall of light. My wife and I are probably going on vacation in Zambia in December and Im thinking of getting a second 9P and putting a turbohead on it to get more throw and the longer runtime from the lower power bulb.


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## Bryan (Aug 21, 2006)

Tritium said:


> Who has A19 adapters inn stock? Have not been able to find one so far.
> 
> 
> Thurmond


 
There was one left in the for sale forum yesterday. You might check that out!


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## Bryan (Aug 21, 2006)

here is the thread:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=129674

$20 shipped, better get it!


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## Tritium (Aug 21, 2006)

Bryan said:


> here is the thread:
> 
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=129674
> 
> $20 shipped, better get it!


 
Thanks, Nabbed it.

Thurmond


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Aug 22, 2006)

mdocod said:


> running a P91 in a 3 cell case on a pair of 17500(same size as Wolf-eyes 150b) is considered "over the limit" of li-ion chemistry, which is not meant to be drained any faster than "2C" meaning.. for that size cell, that's usually around 2amps.. sometimes a little more... a P91 draws up to 2.7 amps from a pair of fresh li-ions... runtime would be about 15 minuts or less, and the betteries would not last the "hundreds of cycles" that they would normally..... 2x17670 sized cells should be considered the *safe* minimum for the P91...


 
Agreed. For increased brightness, runtime, and safety margin, the P91 deserves high-capacity cells, ideally a pair of 168A or 18650 cells. You can build such a setup in only two ways: TranquillityBase's custom body or the Nextorch NT-7. The latter is a steal: about $68 from Emillion, complete with a glass-lensed head, two protected 18650 cells, and a charger. However, I doubt that the provided cells can light a P91 on a single click; you'd have to relegate them to lighter-duty use.

A P91 will fit a Wolf Eyes 2x150A body (the 9-series Raider), but it's a tight fit. Don't try screwing the head down all the way; you'll damage the P91.


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## fire-stick (Aug 22, 2006)

Anyone got a link to the custom boddies?


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## Action (Aug 22, 2006)

Do you have experience with the NT-7? Is the head thread compatible with Surefire C/Z/P heads?



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Agreed. For increased brightness, runtime, and safety margin, the P91 deserves high-capacity cells, ideally a pair of 168A or 18650 cells. You can build such a setup in only two ways: TranquillityBase's custom body or the Nextorch NT-7. The latter is a steal: about $68 from Emillion, complete with a glass-lensed head, two protected 18650 cells, and a charger. However, I doubt that the provided cells can light a P91 on a single click; you'd have to relegate them to lighter-duty use.
> 
> A P91 will fit a Wolf Eyes 2x150A body (the 9-series Raider), but it's a tight fit. Don't try screwing the head down all the way; you'll damage the P91.


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## wquiles (Aug 22, 2006)

GadgetTravel said:


> I use Pilas in my 9P with the P91 and love it. I use it a lot around the house and yard. I dont need much throw there. I have a T3 if I need a bit more throw but the T3 is not as bright. I still smile everytime I double click on my 9P. It really is a wall of light. My wife and I are probably going on vacation in Zambia in December and Im thinking of getting a second 9P and putting a turbohead on it to get more throw and the longer runtime from the lower power bulb.


With a Turbo Head (KT2) and 3 primary cells you will get the amazing N2 bulb. Great beam, good throw, good runtimes, not too much heat 

I have not tried running the N2 on two LiIon cells (4.2V) - anyone?

Will


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## Bryan (Aug 22, 2006)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Agreed. For increased brightness, runtime, and safety margin, the P91 deserves high-capacity cells, ideally a pair of 168A or 18650 cells. You can build such a setup in only two ways: TranquillityBase's custom body or the Nextorch NT-7. The latter is a steal: about $68 from Emillion, complete with a glass-lensed head, two protected 18650 cells, and a charger. However, I doubt that the provided cells can light a P91 on a single click; you'd have to relegate them to lighter-duty use.
> 
> A P91 will fit a Wolf Eyes 2x150A body (the 9-series Raider), but it's a tight fit. Don't try screwing the head down all the way; you'll damage the P91.



Alternatively you can buy an Ultrafire G120 and bore it out a little to fit 2x 18650 cells. That would be the cheapest route considering the G120 is about $23 shipped give or take a dollar.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Aug 23, 2006)

Action said:


> Do you have experience with the NT-7? Is the head thread compatible with Surefire C/Z/P heads?


Sorry, I don't. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the head is not interchangeable between brands. It would be nice to have the option of using a G&P/Digiligt/Caballas miniturbo head/reflector with a G&P bulb.

Emilion has confirmed that the Nextorch line will accept Surefire P-type 26mm lamp assemblies.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Aug 23, 2006)

Bryan said:


> Alternatively you can buy an Ultrafire G120 and bore it out a little to fit 2x 18650 cells. That would be the cheapest route considering the G120 is about $23 shipped give or take a dollar.


Be careful. The Ultrafire is a hot potato in stock form. It would probably become too hot to handle in no time if it were bored out.


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## Bryan (Aug 23, 2006)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Be careful. The Ultrafire is a hot potato in stock form. It would probably become too hot to handle in no time if it were bored out.


 
I never thought about that, thanks Paul. I just ordered a few Ultrafires from Ebay so I'm excited to try them out with various battery/lamp combos. If I don't like them I'm not out too much money!


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## mdocod (Aug 23, 2006)

I have been using an unbored 4x123 Ultrafire as a host for a pair of 17670s and a P91 for quite a few months now, get's used daily and charged weekly.. I've been thinking about the boring option and using some 18650s... but this setup is treating me well.... We also have a Stock 3x123 ultrafire using the G90 LA that it came with running on 2x17500 around here.. it doesn't get used as much, but is probably the cheapest route to a decent rechargable tactical incan avaiable right now.

another thing.. I have AWs "new" cells (with the buttontops and nice tight wrapping, and the higher current limit on the protection) and I don't have to double tap untill the battery is parcially depleted. (Seems like the first 10-15 minuts it's single click on, and after that it requires a double tap for the remainder of it's runtime.) Others are saying they have to double-tap on these 17670s, some do some don't, weird.


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## Bryan (Aug 24, 2006)

Hey mdocod, how much runtime are you seeing with that P91 setup (with the 2x17670)? 

I have learned a lot from your posts in some of my recent searches. Thank you!


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## NotRegulated (Aug 24, 2006)

I am also using the two AW 17670 cells in my 9P with A19 extender with the P90/P91. I also have AWs "new" cells (with the buttontops and nice tight wrapping, and the higher current limit on the protection) and I don't have to double tap either untill the battery is nearly depleted.
My AW old cells and Pila cells need to be double tappped.

You should have no problem at all when using AW's new cells...I think they are the ONLY 17670 cells he sells now anyway.


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## Ruockolt (Aug 31, 2006)

Tritium said:


> Who has A19 adapters inn stock? Have not been able to find one so far.



I don't have any experience with this seller, and am kind of tenative since its not a US company, but I was also looking consitering Lighthound doesnt have any but I found some here http://www.supremeco.com.hk/catalog/index.php?manufacturers_id=11 through google.


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## NotRegulated (Aug 31, 2006)

http://www.lagger-pro.com/accessories.htm

Scroll down under accessories for the A19 adaptor. Reliable company. I think price includes shipping.


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## a99raptors (Sep 2, 2006)

NotRegulated said:


> I am also using the two AW 17670 cells in my 9P with A19 extender with the P90/P91. I also have AWs "new" cells (with the buttontops and nice tight wrapping, and the higher current limit on the protection) and I don't have to double tap either untill the battery is nearly depleted.
> My AW old cells and Pila cells need to be double tappped.
> 
> You should have no problem at all when using AW's new cells...I think they are the ONLY 17670 cells he sells now anyway.


 I have the same setup, except I still have to double click even on the new cells from Aw.


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## NotRegulated (Sep 2, 2006)

I think that you should send AW a PM and explain the problem. AW is even now advertising that his new cells work with one click for the P91. I bought a half a dozen of them and they all work great with the P91. I think that the CPF Wiki also has others that have confirmed these cells work with the P91.

It's kinda a long shot but if you have another P91 lamp assembly try it out and see if the problem is the bulb. The reason I bring this up is because a friend of mine got a new P91 and the output seemed suspect. Sure enough, it was defective. 
Another thing that I just thought of is when these cells get mostly depleted they require a double click. I know it sounds silly but are they fully charged? Are you using AW's charger? That is the one I have.


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## a99raptors (Sep 3, 2006)

I did send Aw a PM and he even said some users do have this problem. He isn't sure what the cause is.

I think the cells are fully charged because the voltage is around 4.1 to 4.2. I am using the DSD charger.


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## Bryan (Sep 3, 2006)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> A P91 will fit a Wolf Eyes 2x150A body (the 9-series Raider), but it's a tight fit.


 
I ordered the 150B's from PTS and I received the 150A's  . I was so excited when I pulled them out of the box and when I tried to test fit them in my SF I almost cried when they wouldn't fit lol. 

I really wanted the 150B's this weekend and since he wouldn't ship out the right set until he gets the 150A's back, I'm going to be waiting a while . He did offer to pay for the shipping back to him, but it was only $4 for priority mail so I told him I'd take care of it. As soon as I get them I'll have a review up with various lamps!


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