# Bad news for Spyderco....



## cutlerylover (Apr 13, 2007)

Anyone who is interestd in balisongs problably already read this at bladeforums, but I will post it here for those of you who do not visit blade often, or at all...

http://lawfuel.com/show-release.asp?ID=11640


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## BIGIRON (Apr 13, 2007)

Another example of pleading out to avoid the expense of a trial. 

When arrogant, overzealous government wins, we all loose.


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## greenlight (Apr 13, 2007)

How about posting a pic for those who don't know what knife?


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## CLHC (Apr 13, 2007)

Balisong knives are "switchblade" knives? :thinking:


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## MicroE (Apr 13, 2007)

Balisong knives are often called butterfly knives, NOT switchblades.


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## CLHC (Apr 13, 2007)

MicroE said:


> Balisong knives are often called butterfly knives, NOT switchblades.


I've known that all too well as a pinoy. Interesting how the article that's linked above stated that they classify said knives as "switchblades."


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## BIGIRON (Apr 13, 2007)

I, too, don't see how they are qualified as switchblades. Unfortunately, they are what the government says they are unless you're willing to spend millions to prove otherwise.

"You can beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride"

I'm surprised we're still able to possess "assisted openers".

This is my day to rag on the government.


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## Cribbage (Apr 13, 2007)

Sal is a very honorable guy and probably refused to grease the right palms.

Friggin' government. All I can say is, if you like something that is _evil_, you'd better stock up now. Firearms, knives, swords, air guns, anything.

Have you seen the only "legal" knife in Great Britain? It's basically a less-than-2" single blade slip joint. It sure has helped the crime rate there--keep climbing!

Coming to Amerika soon! 
Friggin government.


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## BIGIRON (Apr 13, 2007)

With our political sea change, you ain't seen nothing yet.


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## cutlerylover (Apr 13, 2007)

greenlight said:


> How about posting a pic for those who don't know what knife?


 
Ok, sorry Im sure not everyone knows what a balisong is...Its often called a butterfly knife...becasue fo the fact that it can be opened with gravity it falls under the switchblade act, but this is different depending on where you live...

Spyderco had 2 balisongs in production (Spyderfly, and szabofly), and a 3rd on the way (smallfly, which was a smaller version of the spyderfly)...


SPYDERFLY








SZABOFLY


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## BIGIRON (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm really not that familiar with balisongs. I can see how they can be partially opened by gravity but not completely. I see them being opened by inertia - but then so can almost any other folder. That was a market point for the early Spydercos. Hold the blade and flip the handle.


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## greenlight (Apr 13, 2007)

Those are sweet if you know how to use them. Otherwise, what's the point other than showing off?


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## cutlerylover (Apr 13, 2007)

Well there is a large balisong community which is constantly trying to better themselves as far as manipulating the balisong, it is an art and it takes along time to get really good consistantly...For the most part your right it has alot to do with showing off for most people, but an experienced user likes the balisogn as an everyday knife as well...I sometimes carry one myself, it is very handy and good quality balisongs like Benchmade makes can take a realy beating and be used just like any other knife...

What sucks in this case is that they have effected collectors like me and many others who use our balisongs for fun and not for crime...Most of the time you will not see a criminal use a $100 + knife, but rather the $10 cheapos you cna find at flea markets...but because spyderco is a well knwon compnay and they merchandise can be traced easily they were an easy target, rather than the chinese companies that import these things in unmarked containers that cannot be checked easily because there are so mnay being imported and exported so often...Even though there are thousands of knife collectors that are mad by this the general public think its a good thign to keep weapons off the street, but in reality its only hurting good honest people like myself...


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## Minjin (Apr 13, 2007)

Dammit, that pisses me off. Spyderco better not go under because of this.  

Why aren't they going after Benchmade? They probably sold 100x butterfly knives (its the origin of their logo!!!) .


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## cutlerylover (Apr 13, 2007)

The problem is not that they are selling or shipping balisong in the US, the problem is that they were having parts imported from other countries, so it became a customs issue...Benchmade makes and assembles all of their balisong parts in the US so they do not go through customs to the best of my knowledge...


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## PhotonBoy (Apr 13, 2007)

Wikipedia has a detailed article on these knives with lots of pics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_knife


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## cutlerylover (Apr 13, 2007)

If anyone is more interested about balisongs you can talk about them as well as ask questions over at:

www.bladeforums.com (has its own balisong section with good traffic)
www.Knifeforums.com (not as much traffic but also has its own balisong section)
www.balisongforums.com (all balisongs all the time, lol)

And if you have one and want to learn some moves you can check out:

www.balisongxtreme.com (click on techniques)
And tons of more inof and moves at www.balisonginfo.com

Oh I almost forgot about Chucks site... 

www.balisongcollector.com


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## Sub_Umbra (Apr 13, 2007)

It's frustrating... It's always the same type of story. The Fed can't find Osama or stop the ICBM technology hemorrage from North Korea but they've got plenty of resourses to make up bogus definitions of switchblades and harass businesses that contribute to the economy. Some things never change...for the better.


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## fnmag (Apr 13, 2007)

Ever encroaching government strikes again! It's not going to end until we are like all of the other 3d world countries out there. If we don't assert our Constitutional rights and closely monitor or "servants" in Washington DC this nonsense/garbage will continue...cradle to grave. After all...."they" know what's in our best interests. Shut up and do as your told. It's not just our founding fathers that are "turning in their graves", so are our fathers.


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## cutlerylover (Apr 13, 2007)

its unfortunate huh...messed up priorities...totally off topic but there are people serving long prison terms for possesion of marijuana but some murderers like OJ get off the hook because of their money...but as messed up as it is I still Love the US...but then again I never left it? Maybe there are other places better than the US to live?


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## dano (Apr 13, 2007)

It will be interesting to see what Benchmade does (though BM doesn't import, and Bali's are legal in Oregon; though there may be an issue in terms of how BM ships them once completed), Microtech, all the custom makers, etc.

-dan


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## Cribbage (Apr 13, 2007)

I really like mine; I have just recently gotten a few to play with, adn I find the smaller Benchmade 'Morpho's to be very handy carry and utility knives.

The design is extremely strong; stronger than any other folder from what I understand.

I also bought a couple of full-size to collect and see if I can learn to 'flip' at least a little. Just got bit for the first time! Super-glue is great for closing a cut!

I will hang on to them just for collection purposes; although the larger ones - BM4x series - are really too big for me to carry daily (business casual).

My only frustration with the Balisong culture is it seems to be populated with a large number of kids young enough to be my son. Maybe it's kinda weird being middle-aged and liking balis, but they are very interesting knives; I highly recommend any knife afficianado get al least one Benchmade.


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## cutlerylover (Apr 13, 2007)

Yeah the new Morpho is a great user balisong for its smaller size...And your right, for the most part the balisong community has tons of teenagers and men in their early twenties...I guys its just a cool knife in general and younger men and boys tend to like flashy knives...but your not alone, there are still plenty of older gentlemem who like balisongs...If nothgin else the balisong lets me play with my knives when I am not using them...so that alone wins me over, but your right a balisong is about the strognest designed knife with a lock that will not and almost cannot fail...the only thing stronger is a fixed blade...


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## Trashman (Apr 13, 2007)

cutlerylover said:


> Yeah the new Morpho is a great user balisong for its smaller size...And your right, for the most part the balisong community has tons of teenagers and men in their early twenties...I guys its just a cool knife in general and younger men and boys tend to like flashy knives...but your not alone, there are still plenty of older gentlemem who like balisongs...If nothgin else the balisong lets me play with my knives when I am not using them...so that alone wins me over, but your right a balisong is about the strognest designed knife with a lock that will not and almost cannot fail...the only thing stronger is a fixed blade...



I had one when I was teen. I thought it was great fun!

Hey, cutlerylover, is this you? -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFQldLnf8u0

The guy in the video also calls himself cutlerlover!


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## cutlerylover (Apr 14, 2007)

Yup, thats me...I posted 3 balisong videos on ym sisters name on youtube since I do not have an account...that is an older vid I made back in 1999, I picked that song because thats what I was listenign to at the time, but more often than not I like classic rock...I have a short video with no sounds of me messign aroudn with a keychain bali too, and an instructional vid of a combo I tried...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lOF_Isb5MM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yWfg7zBP-0

My favorotie moves to do with a balisong are ariels, which are any moves in which the knife completely leaves your hand at some point...they are most often the harder moves to complete properly because they take a good amount of practice and correct timing...


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## TigerhawkT3 (Apr 14, 2007)

Argh, dang... Poor Spyderco. 

So, this is about those objects in the pics? Those aren't knives, they're works of art! Simply beautiful (I'm glad I don't know how much they cost, especially now that the government is butting in).

It kind of sounds like balisongs are more dangerous to their users than to the rest of the American populace. Most other knives, like ordinary folders, fixed blades, and especially autos, are so easily deployed a caveman could do it (no offense to cavemen).

I feel like the home team was busted by a technical foul. (Hey "ump"! I  in your general direction!) At least Spyderco makes a lot of other cool stuff.


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## TonkinWarrior (Apr 14, 2007)

BIGIRON said:


> With our political sea change, you ain't seen nothing yet.



Oh, but you just don't understand! 

You see, it's (a) For The Common Good, (b) For The Children, and (c) to Put Us More In-Tune With Modern/Progressive Social Thought.

There. Now, don't you feel better (*cough*)?

(Today: ban those eeeevil Balisongs. Tomorrow? eeeevil too-bright flashlights.)


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## CLHC (Apr 14, 2007)

LawFuel said:


> . . .Spyderco admitted that from June 2005 through January 2007, it had mailed butterfly knives, *after importing the knife components from Taipei, Taiwan*, through the Port of San Francisco and the Port of Oakland, to Golden, Colorado.


Side point here. I have not seen any of Spyderco's balisong/butterfly knives but am curious as to know where these are from originally? I always had the impression that these Spyderco Butterfly knives were either made in Japan or here in the USA? Or is it just the said "components" that are from Taipei Taiwan?

That's all. . .


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## cutlerylover (Apr 14, 2007)

just the components, thats what the issue was with parts being imported to assemble balisongs...the knives themselves are assembled here in the US at Spyderco's factory...This was a customs issue for parts...


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## Monocrom (Apr 15, 2007)

What a load of bull$#^t! Those A-holes know damn well that a Butterfly knife is not a f**king switchblade! Show me the spring that's inside of it!  

Spyderco is not a huge company as some would believe. Popular, yes. But not huge. This bull$#t could serious hurt Spyderco. (A lengthy court battle would have been even more financially damaging).

Switchblade my ***!


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## mtbkndad (Apr 15, 2007)

Monocrom said:


> What a load of bull$#^t! Those A-holes know damn well that a Butterfly knife is not a f**king switchblade! Show me the spring that's inside of it!
> 
> Spyderco is not a huge company as some would believe. Popular, yes. But not huge. This bull$#t could serious hurt Spyderco. (A lengthy court battle would have been even more financially damaging).
> 
> Switchblade my ***!



In legal documents the term Switchblade is often a catch all term that includes any knive that opens automatically, by gravity, intertia, or both gravity and intertia. Knives that have some initial resistance that has to be overcome are not generally included. Most assisted opening knives have to have resistance that keeps them closed and the blade itself needs to be moved up to the point of the assistance taking over in order to not be considered switchblades. This could be by moving a thumbstud, a protruding portion of the back of the blade, a hole in the blade, etc.
It just needs to be part of the blade.

In California any knife that can be used in a stabbing manner can be classed as a dagger. If you stab somebody with a box cutter, you could be accused of using it as a dagger. Therefore the logic would go, if you used it as a dagger then for you it was a dagger. 

A Balisong can be opened very fast with a single simultaneous flip & twist action. One of my sons and I were trying to figure out just what action was fastest one day after practicing with our trainers for a while. We decided that single twist flip is probably the move most likely to fit the legal description above.
These are just my thoughts.

I also agree with those who say if you don't have one they are worth getting. Only get a trainer for practicing flipping, twirling, tossing, etc.. They are GREAT for developing coordination and manual dexterity.
A friend of mine who is a well known knife combatives expert calls them the yoyo for the knife geek. That fits pretty well. You could also call them guy batons  . I just call them a blast to practice with.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## cutlerylover (Apr 15, 2007)

I agree balisong are ALOT of fun, and I also recommend trainers for beginner flippers...I love to "fiddle" with ym knives when I am bored or not using them, but when I am home the balisong is the perfect solution, I can play with my balisongs for hours without getting bored with it...


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## Art Vandelay (Apr 15, 2007)

It's a felony to carry a balisong in public in Nevada.


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## AlexSchira (Apr 15, 2007)

I remember my friends having them as a kid in Illinois, just knock-offs without a logo, never seen a name brand one in person. Our knife laws go on about automatic openers, but I think they might actually be legal in a small enough size. Used to like the way my friends opened them with tricks, but I can't remember ever wanting one myself as a tool. They are gorgeous tools, I feel bad for the collectors. There's a lot of history behind those things if anyone ever researches Filipino culture. 

Sometimes I do worry about future restrictions on knives. By now I've stopped seeing them as a form of primary self defense, in the world of the ASP Baton and concealed carry I'd rather not improvise a tool for that purpose. Doesn't stop the criminal usage rate sadly. Seems the people who weaponize anything sharpened or pointy are the people who know nothing about knives to begin with. 

"Is that a switchblade?"
"...It's a Leatherman..."


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## jds009 (Apr 15, 2007)

AlexSchira said:


> "Is that a switchblade?"
> "...It's a Leatherman..."



Haha ive used that in school before...cept it was just a regular knife & i said its a multi tool, it was bigger than the legal limit too...


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## CLHC (Apr 15, 2007)

Balisongs are indeed fun knives to "play" with and to me, good for hand-to-eye coordination especially when doing those juggling act tricks with it.

Here in California, butterfly knives are illegal too. Funny they sell them at the flea market (Berryessa) and I've seen them in cutlery stores in SFO.

Enjoy!


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## cutlerylover (Apr 15, 2007)

Yup, same here, illegal in my area of PA but that doesn't stop them from being sold at my local flea market either...along with other illegal weapons, unfortunatly all cheapo stuff too...


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## chevrofreak (Apr 15, 2007)

Gotta love laws that do absolutely *nothing* to improve public safety, yet are touted as being for such.


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## Cribbage (Apr 16, 2007)

Kinda cool aside...

I have a CCW, so anything that is a legal weapon, I can carry. So, since auto knives and balis are legal 'weapons' here, I can carry one. A CCW can really help you when your a knife nut!


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## jds009 (Apr 16, 2007)

i want a ccw...how would a 15 year old go about getting one?


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## TonkinWarrior (Apr 16, 2007)

jds009 said:


> i want a ccw...how would a 15 year old go about getting one?


1. Wait about 6 years.
2. Keep your nose clean as you mature. (Successful military service is highly recommended for the discipline it'll beget to assist you in this process.)
3. Get knowledge. And training. Lotsa good training.
4. Along the way avoid/reject all firearms "lessons" or other How-To illustrations as depicted in anything produced by Hollywood or the news media, including TV, movies, and documentaries with the usual leftwing hidden agenda.
5. Try to get through school/college without succumbing to the all-prevailing spitload of cultural/political conditioning designed to turn you into a (*cough*) modern, sensitive, feminized, conflict-and-weapons-averse "Progressive," i.e., a metrosexual wimp.

Good luck.


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## Gunner12 (Apr 16, 2007)

Personally, I think the government is jealous and don't like the fact that their citizens have better equipment then them.

 That was meant to be a joke


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## jds009 (Apr 17, 2007)

TonkinWarrior said:


> 1. Wait about 6 years.
> 2. Keep your nose clean as you mature. (Successful military service is highly recommended for the discipline it'll beget to assist you in this process.)
> 3. Get knowledge. And training. Lotsa good training.
> 4. Along the way avoid/reject all firearms "lessons" or other How-To illustrations as depicted in anything produced by Hollywood or the news media, including TV, movies, and documentaries with the usual leftwing hidden agenda.
> ...



1...ok, i hav e to be 21
2. i will try my hardest....
3. what kind of training & knowledge?
4. duh
5. haha...already passed, im on a frkkin flashlight forum. i love knives, i love to hunt...

Thanks for all that


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## RAF_Groundcrew (Jul 15, 2007)

cutlerylover said:


> its unfortunate huh...messed up priorities...totally off topic but there are people serving long prison terms for possesion of marijuana but some murderers like OJ get off the hook because of their money...but as messed up as it is I still Love the US...but then again I never left it? Maybe there are other places better than the US to live?


Don't even think of coming to Britain! I'd love to welcome you if you visit, but you'd hate it, for all the things that you 'couldn't do' over here.


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## cutlerylover (Jul 15, 2007)

RAF_Groundcrew said:


> Don't even think of coming to Britain! I'd love to welcome you if you visit, but you'd hate it, for all the things that you 'couldn't do' over here.


 
Yeah, I can only imagine...Born and raised in america I will alwasy know and believe that america is the best country on earth...but..........I can only go by what I know...and being that I never left the US...I really ahve no idea...from what I hear switzerland is really nice...lol...Im sure thewre are a few other countries that are a little more simple than the US...maybe noit as much political crap you know...


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## Meeshi_ma (Jul 15, 2007)

jds009 said:


> Haha ive used that in school before...cept it was just a regular knife & i said its a multi tool, it was bigger than the legal limit too...




It wasn't too long ago (8-9 years tops) when I could walk onto any airplane with multiple leathermans on me (them - "whats this?", me - "bicycle repair tool").

I actually lost my first Wave on the seat of a plane somewhere around Denver... boy wouldn't that cause some excitement now? Someone finding an unclaimed sheathed knife on a plane...

-Brian


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## NA8 (Jul 18, 2007)

If I recall correctly the movie, Streets of Fire, had a nice Balisong sequence during the beginning of the movie. ("...try it again, punk.")

A little Ry Cooder music helping things along. 

That movie had it's moments.


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## zk188 (Jul 20, 2007)

Just wait till they start calling our flashlights eyesight destroying laserbeams switchblades come on i proudly support spyderco.


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## cbxer55 (Jul 22, 2007)

jds009 said:


> 1...ok, i hav e to be 21
> 2. i will try my hardest....
> 3. what kind of training & knowledge?
> 4. duh
> ...


 
Good for you. Glad to hear some can get through school with their minds intact.:thumbsup:


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## cbxer55 (Jul 22, 2007)

RAF_Groundcrew said:


> Don't even think of coming to Britain! I'd love to welcome you if you visit, but you'd hate it, for all the things that you 'couldn't do' over here.


 
Ha ha!
How'd you guys fair on the GUV trying to ban kitchen knives, cause they have points?
Did you know you can stab someone witha straw?
Hold your thumb over one end and it will glide right on in.
Next on the agenda, banning straws.

BTW, this is pretty much my EDC.
Sometimes I omit the Kimber .45, but the North American Arms Guardian .32 is always on me somewhere,
usually left ankle. The knives are Benchmade Rukus and Mini=Rukus. Leatherman Charge XTi in black.
Surefire U2.
This would raise a few eyebrows in Britiain or Australia.


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