# New Twist! :) Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?



## Stress_Test (Jul 8, 2009)

All the lights I have are LED, unless I put the stock bulb back in one of the Mags. I've focused on LED lights for their efficiency, but I've read several of the incan vs. led threads here, and hey, I want to keep an open mind.

I scoffed at the whole "neutral white" emitter advantages back when the TK20 was first introduced, but curiosity got the better of me and I eventually ordered one, and now I'm very glad that I did!

So, I want to try out an incan now just for the sake of a learning experience. The catch is, I'm looking for something that's satisfying but still entry-level, meaning no 123a batteries and reasonable cost (sorry, SureFire). 

I don't think a Mini-Mag is going to quite fit the bill. But at work I have a Pelican Stealthlite (which is hardly used) that takes 4AAs. I would just bring that one home, but technically it has to stay there since I don't actually own it. But anyway, that's kind of along the lines of what I'm thinking of. Something simple that still hits the sweet spot. (and I'd rather not get into Mag mods at this point).

So are there any good options out there that you guys would recommend?

Thanks!


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## Wattnot (Jul 8, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

I can only speak from my limited experience but a Mag 85 is always fun. Then there's the ROP. If you're talking about smaller I like the Wolf Eyes Raider with the Lumens Factory HO9 or EO9 module. That runs on 2 18500s which you may already have. If you don't like it you can drop an LED module in and forget we ever talked!

What's great about the Mag85 and the ROP is the wall of light. Massive flood and throw too. Any LED that know as a wall of light is usually bested by either of those. 

Here is a thread that should get you even more interested:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/173535

There are LEDs in there as well but the incans in the bottom half of the shots should really get your filament going!


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## Black Rose (Jul 8, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

If you had a light that takes P60 drop-ins, you could simply buy an incan lamp assembly that matches the battery power you have on hand.

Since you said no CR123A batteries, I think it's safe to say you don't have a P60 light.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 8, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Definitely for your entry "amusement" level, the ROP which is a Pelican potted "drop-in" bulb that replaces the stock bulb is the best choice. There's a whole thread about it.

This thread gives a list of parts. 6 x AA Eneloops will work fine.

You can click on my sig thread to see where I put it as a ranking.


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## jar3ds (Jul 8, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

ROP HI ---> Mag85 ---> Sky 

thats the path i took.... i'd love to get some crazy hotwire rolling again... but I have too many projects going to start another!


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## mdocod (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Welcome to the incandescent side of life!

You have become accustomed to the higher efficiency advantage and lower voltage requirements of LED lights. So I'll just lay it out for your honest like: You aren't going to find an incan in a 2xAA platform that can compete with any reasonable LED in this class. We pretty much either have to use many NIMH cells (6+) or a few li-ion cells to make incandescent worth running. (it almost has to be rechargeable, the cost of operation on a powerful incandescent with primary cells would make these impractical for most of us, though there are many people who use primary CR123s to run these in cost-no-object applications where simplicity is key). Incandescent fun starts around 6V and goes up from there. (this isn't to say that higher voltage always means brighter as it depends on power consumption of the bulbs, but more importantly, that bulb designs below 6V often take significant hits in efficiency and color temperature to have reasonable bulb life). 

For portable/EDC size incans, you'll need lithium chemistry of some sort to make it happen, for larger configurations, NIMH cells are possible. 

Alkaline is considered a big no-no for a good performer as the discharge behavior is spread across such a wide range of operating voltage, considering then that most incans are directly driven from the power source, and that output changes to a power of ~3 with changes in voltage, we need our power source to have as stable an operating voltage as possible for good performance. 

-Eric


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## lctorana (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

You said "no Mag mods", so it seems to be vaguely implicit that you want something pocket-size. You didn't mention a budget either, so the dartboard will be hard to hit wearing a blindfold.

I recommend 2 x IMR16340 cells and a Lumens-factory drop in (the HO-9, EO-9 or IMR-9 in brightness order), and depending on your budget, put them in either:

a Surefire 6P if you're well coined-up
a Hemse if you're not.
These are twisty hosts whose switches can take the current draw of the IMR-9. Not a bad start.


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## Chrontius (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

The Princeton Tec Torrent?

8 AAs, $30-40, and the output of a 9P or so. Also waterproof to SCUBA depths. Fits all your stated requirements.

Ignoring your specific requests, I love my ROP and I love my 9z. A P91 in a 6P (or clone) with IMR batteries is one _heck_ of a surprise when you turn it on for the first time.


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## bxstylez (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

get a SF E2e for about $60-70
a LF IMR-E2 bulb for about 20
2x AW's IMR-16340 cells, for about 20

and u get 350 lumens of incandescent joy!


enjoy the following beamshots...



 

 

 



.


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## Stress_Test (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

The size of the light doesn't really matter in this case, 'cause it's not like I'll be edc'ing this anyway.

The Torrent looks promising, and the price is right (Is this an updated version of the Surge? Or just something similar?).

I'm thinking either something like that, or possibly something that uses 18650s, because I use them in my TK11 also.


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## flashfan (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

I second Chrontius' suggestion, the Princeton Tec Torrent (formerly the Surge) as a "stock, entry level" incandescent that still has a certain "wow" factor.

I have only the "old" Surge models, but assuming the Torrent performs as well or better, I don't think you'll be disappointed. _Very, very bright for its cost and size, with an amazingly "white" beam for an incandescent._

If you're looking for something smaller, check into the Princeton Tec Rage. Takes four AAA batteries and is only $10.95 at BrightGuy. Incredibly bright for a such a small, economical light that uses common AAA batteries.


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## lctorana (Jul 9, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Stress_Test said:


> The size of the light doesn't really matter in this case, 'cause it's not like I'll be edc'ing this anyway.


 
In that case, I don't understand the objerction to Mag mods.

The Mag85, in particular, is a joy to own and use. It is a superb yard torch to keep by the backdoor for everyday use.


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## 325addict (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

as mdocod already pointed out, two penlites just won't start the fun. You need two Li-ion batteries (7.2V) to have real fun....

The light it all started for me was a cheap Ultrafire WF-501B with a 9V lamp assembly drawing 1.3 Amps(!) in it. 

WHOW! That little baby is BRIGHT! but.... has only 20 minutes of runtime from the crappy Ultrafire RCR123s I got with it.... 

Best way is: find a decent 3X CR123A host and get two 17500s. I like the Surefire C3 Centurion HA most for this purpose, but... that one is expensive indeed. It's possible to go the cheap way, by ordering this one:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...em=&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT&salenotsupported

Get rid of that stock lamp and buy a P90. Yes, that's Surefire indeed, but this Lamp Assembly is worth every penny that's spent on it!

These hosts even accept 2X 18500! They have 1500mAh capacity, and will power a P90 for well over an hour. A smart buy is to go straight for the good quality of AW cells. You won't regret that decision.

Just put in that P90 and the two 18500s, click that reverse-clickie that's standard on these hosts, point it at the wall and... instant satisfaction for not too much money 

Timmo (an all-time incan-fan, that JUST bought a SF U2 Ultra....).


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## RyanA (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

You can actually use a WA1185 bulb in a Surefire G3 or 9p, you'd need to use a specific reflector and very specific set of batteries. This should blow away just about any small led light you know of, it won't run very long though.


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## mdocod (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Since you already have the 18650 on your platter for your TK11 just stick with that size cell and move up to a longer host for more cells. 2 minimum but there are also 3 cell configurations possible. 

A pair of 18650s driving just about any "9V" tactical lamp is fun, I'd say shoot for something in the 400-1000 bulb lumen range. 

For reasonable price, something like a SolarForce or Seraph would probably be the best route. I have some solarforce pieces and parts and they seem reasonable, I'm a bit partial to the Seraph for incan builds as it supports a wider range of lamp options without compatibility conflicts (speaking primarily here of the D36 line of mini-turbo lamps). 

A pair of quality protected 18650s, a D36 lamp, like say, an EO-9L or IMR-9L, an SP-9 (xenon version), 1 cell extender, and D36 head adapter, would all run right around $100 plus some shipping costs. What makes this a nice "intro" platform is that you have lots of room to play- in fact, nearly every common tactical lamp and li-ion battery configuration is possible on the Seraph line. You can even use the included D26 xenon lamp with the 2x18650s and swap back and forth with the D36 lamp (have a high and low output option of lamps to start with).. Then later on down the road, add to the collection with say, some more lamps, or maybe a KT4 turbo-head kit from SureFire... 

-Eric


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## Stress_Test (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



lctorana said:


> In that case, I don't understand the objerction to Mag mods.
> 
> The Mag85, in particular, is a joy to own and use. It is a superb yard torch to keep by the backdoor for everyday use.



Heh, guess I should clarify. I mean that I don't want to get into something (yet) that I'd have to custom modify. I'm looking for something that's relatively plug and play for now.

Also, I'm not expecting 2000 lumens or anything, just something that has useful output. I kinda hit the wall on the "brighter and brighter" buying phase when I got the TK11, because to get an led that's significantly brighter than that, it'd take a quad-die (which I don't really want to spring for; waiting for more efficient single-die).

I'm thinking I may start with the 8AA Torrent. But quick question on that: If it's two banks of 4AA in series (6 volts), will it run at similar brightness on 4 Nimh, due to the Nimh ability to supply more current than alkaline? ie, if the bulb is drawing an amp, then two banks of 4AA means only 500ma per bank, which is within limits of alkalines. But if I'm using just one bank of 4 Nimh, won't they be able to handle the full amp by themselves?


Anyway, if I get this light and it's enough to stoke the fire, then we'll see about the more high powered and $$$ stuff :devil:


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## 325addict (Jul 10, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

A-Ha! You already have some 18650s.... then, you need this el-cheapo host for the D26 platform:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Ultrafire-G120-1...QQptZLHQ5fDefaultDomainQ5f0QQsalenotsupported

for just $ 15,- you have the right host. Then buy the P90 I mentioned before, swap the lamp assemblies (I don't regard this as "modding", as it's done withing 30 seconds, and you don't have to change anything to the flashlight).

Then put in two 18650s and the fun is ready to start 

Timmo.


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## Black Rose (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

I received a couple Spiderfire X-03 (Solarforce L2) incan lights today with the 7.4V 10W incan drop-ins - $14.99 (shipping incl) off of eBay.

I only bought the incan version to get the hosts cheaper, but I have to say as a predominantly LED guy, I like them.

I'm running them on a pair of 16340 cells and it's quite impressive.


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## yellow (Jul 11, 2009)

to stay at the size of light You are used to, 
You could try to get the 18650 Streamlight Scorpion w. stinger bulb-mod.
Very nice. Out of my 2*CR123 / 1*18650 incans the brightest





aaaaaaaaahhem:


> enjoy the following beamshots...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know this shot.
Its from S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Clear Sky
(at least it looks like)


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## ElectronGuru (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Man, thats some kind of beamshot location!



mdocod said:


> You have become accustomed to the higher efficiency advantage and lower voltage requirements of LED lights. So I'll just lay it out for your honest like: You aren't going to find an incan in a 2xAA platform that can compete with any reasonable LED in this class. We pretty much either have to use many NIMH cells (6+) or a few li-ion cells to make incandescent worth running.



Very well said. You need voltage to get compelling output and color from a filament, which can't compete with simple and cheap (unless maybe you've got a 6D?). If I were putting something together for neighbor that was familiar, easy to use, plug-and-play, light weight, less work than a mess of AAs, and slightly exotic, I would go:

Mag 2C
3 x IMR16340 batteries
adaptor tube and spring (I can mail you both)
WA1331 bulb (the best color bulb from the best color line up of bulbs)
FM bulb adaptor
Glass lens
and if you want to run it for any length of time, aluminum reflector​
Total price with 3 bulbs, about $55. Or just get a 2 or 3 x CR123, but you've already excluded such things.


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## Stress_Test (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



yellow said:


> to stay at the size of light You are used to,
> You could try to get the 18650 Streamlight Scorpion w. stinger bulb-mod.
> Very nice. Out of my 2*CR123 / 1*18650 incans the brightest



Whoa, wait... the Streamlight Scorpion can use an 18650? I thought those were CR123a only. 

If there's a Streamlight option, that would be pretty good because I think the local gun shop sells Streamlights 

***EDIT***

Okay, did some checking and I think I follow you now. You're saying, get the Scorpion, which should be able to fit an 18650 (in place of 2 cr123a), and use the bulb from a Stinger, which is driven by 3 Nimh cells, which should be approximately the same voltage as the single lithium-ion. Do I have it right? This sounds pretty cool...


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## mdocod (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

I don't think the scorpion is bored for an 18650, you would want to use a strion. 

I honestly don't think either of these options is a smart recommendation for someone wanting to see "what the incan fuss is about" coming the standpoint of a TK11. The TK11 will grossly overpower most 2xCR123/1x18650 incan configurations. Why bother?


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## Chrontius (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Stress_Test said:


> Heh, guess I should clarify. I mean that I don't want to get into something (yet) that I'd have to custom modify. I'm looking for something that's relatively plug and play for now.
> 
> Also, I'm not expecting 2000 lumens or anything, just something that has useful output. I kinda hit the wall on the "brighter and brighter" buying phase when I got the TK11, because to get an led that's significantly brighter than that, it'd take a quad-die (which I don't really want to spring for; waiting for more efficient single-die).
> 
> ...



Also possible with the 4 NiMH, but you have the problem of the nominal voltage not being as high. Your light won't be as bright at first with NiMH, but you can definitely run it with four NiMH and the light will float, too.

The Scorpion 18650 trick is worth trying once I get some li-ions.


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## Stress_Test (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



mdocod said:


> I don't think the scorpion is bored for an 18650, you would want to use a strion.
> 
> I honestly don't think either of these options is a smart recommendation for someone wanting to see "what the incan fuss is about" coming the standpoint of a TK11. The TK11 will grossly overpower most 2xCR123/1x18650 incan configurations. Why bother?



Don't worry, I knew going into this that it'd be tough to out-lumen the TK11, size for size, without getting into something custom or expensive. This is more of an investigation into the aesthetics of an incan light vs. led, not so much a raw performance competition. 

For example, I also have a TK20, and in a lot of ways I prefer it over the TK11 due to the pleasing beam color and the comfortable grip. I was using the TK20 in a dark backyard, with a light rain falling, on low(!), and it was still great! Enough light to keep an eye on the dogs and not freak out the neighbors, at only 45 lumens. 

So if a Scorpion or Strion mod on a single 18650 will put out ~60 lumens OTF, then I'd still consider that pretty good. I live in a city neighborhood, so running around with a 200+ lumen light is pretty much only good for pissing off the neighbors! :laughing:


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## jaundice (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

I was in a similar situation to you; I had a bunch of high-brightness LEDs (~250 lumens) and wanted to see what incans are all about. I looked into it, as you are doing, and pretty much came to the conclusion that Mdocod says above: these days, the only reason to go incan is to get extreme brightness and/or throw for less money than LED. Otherwise, a garden variety LED just kills an incan, except in color, and the newer warm LEDs are rapidly catching up.

To that end, I ended up going for a Surefire M6 (and later, a Megalenium) running an 1185. That's out of your price range. Second to that, build at ROP running two 18650s in a 2C or 2D cell maglite. Although I prefer the 2C, the 2D is cheaper/less hassle.  You'll get ~80% of the output of an 1185 for a lot less $$.

You'll need:

2D Maglite $20
ROP bulbs $10 from Lighthound
Kaidomain 8.3mm Cam reflector $9.99
Borofloat lens $6.25 from Lighthound
2 x 18650 batteries 
a 4 inch piece of 3/4 inch PVC pipe ~$1
two 3/4 inch PVC pipe couplers ~$2
Kaidomain golden shorty tailspring $3.99 (not absolutely necessary, but handy)

the couplers go on the end of the PVC pipe, which is then slid into the battery compartment of the 2D maglite, and slide in the charged 18650s. Swap out the lens and reflector with the new ones, and insert the ROP high bulb. You're ready to go!

Good luck!

-John


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## bullfrog (Jul 11, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Surefire A2 Aviator and pick your favorite LED color. Add AW IMR RCR123s so you get free lumens.

After you've had fun w that, add the strion socket/bulb mod for a bit more power and cheapo bulbs ($4.99 at YCS).

You should be able to get a user A2 cheap on the marketplace, maybe even with the strion mod already.

I'm not an incan guy and this is the only dive I took and was pleased.


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## ZMZ67 (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Although it is not in the brightness class of the lights previously mentioned the Princeton Tec 40 may be worth a look.Not a barnburner by any means but it is inexpensive and can use a variety of easy to find bulbs.Spare parts and a choice of OP or smooth reflectors are available providing the opportunity to experiment a little.http://www.brightguy.com/ is a good place to look but of course there are many other retailers.


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## yellow (Jul 13, 2009)

the Scorpion 18650 w. Strion bulb and ceramic Strion bulb holder is (was?) a special version, offered at some shops like lighthound.
It outshines an original 6P easily.

Compared to a high powered (single die) led, its the usual:
shorter range: the led seems brighter + nicer beam
beam set to spot: the incan throws more distance and everything looks more "alive".
... thanks to the whiter light, the led _seems_ brighter

real con: the incan runs for the typical 50 mins only

I agree that in 1*18650 (2*CR123, 2*AA) the led offers more bonus, but the OP asked for models to compare. Larger lights, especially ROP and such, surely are nice, but one has to tote them around ...


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## lctorana (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



yellow said:


> Larger lights, especially ROP and such, surely are nice, but one has to tote them around ...


 
Actually, no one doesn't. Not always. Larger lights don't have to be carried.

They can live by your back door, in the shed, in the garage, in the boot of your car, in the glovebox, always ready for service. EDC is only a tiny proportion of torch usage for some people.

This raises the great question of "what do you want it for?"

If it is for pocket carry, then there are many excellent suggestions already made, including my own in post #7.

If not, a RoP or Mag85 is truly hard to beat.


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## RyanA (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Pocketable 85's are out there. Also easy to "build".


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## Patriot (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

My first pick would be the mag85 but you don't want a mag sized light, which is really needed to fully enjoy that bulb. 

My second pick would be the A2 Aviator. It probably won't "wow" you but it's pocketable and satisfying to use an incan that doesn't dim. 

Or you could go with something plug & play that takes 18650 cells.
http://www.pts-flashlights.com/products/product.aspx?pid=1-140-20-73-6230


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Stress_Test said:


> I live in a city neighborhood, so running around with a 200+ lumen light is pretty much only good for pissing off the neighbors! :laughing:



No quad emitter/Hotwire Maglites for you! pity... nothing satisfies like pulling a trigger on a 10/20w+ incandescent flashlight :devil:


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## RyanA (Jul 13, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Patriot said:


> My first pick would be the mag85 but you don't want a mag sized light, which is really needed to fully enjoy that bulb.



Lies! It's even more fun in a G3!:naughty:

...for all of five minutes


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## ElectronGuru (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



ElectronGuru said:


> Mag 2C
> 3 x IMR16340 batteries
> adaptor tube and spring (I can mail you both)
> WA1331 bulb (the best color bulb from the best color line up of bulbs)
> FM bulb adaptor



I got questions on this, so here's a guide:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/236731


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## KevinL (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Stress_Test said:


> Heh, guess I should clarify. I mean that I don't want to get into something (yet) that I'd have to custom modify. I'm looking for something that's relatively plug and play for now.



Plug and play would be the ROP. Designed for those who don't want to have to fiddle with a soldering iron (myself included). 

Change the PR bulb for the ROP bulb, change reflector to metal, change glass lens. Stick six NiMH or 2x18650 in the rear and away you go  fifteen minutes max.....including coffee break. 

(you may need to deanodize tailcap if you use the 2C Maglite - unless you buy one of the prefabricated 'extended tailcaps').


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## Stress_Test (Jul 19, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Okay, I just pulled the trigger on an order for a Princeton Tec40 from Brightguy! I went this route because it's pretty low buck, and I wasn't sure I wanted to deal with the 8 battery setup of the Torrent. Also, it shows that it takes a PR type bulb, which gives lots of options (as ZMZ67 pointed out). I've already got a 4-cell Magnum Star bulb on hand, along with two krypton 3-cell bulbs leftover from a Mag, which ought to be able to handle the slight overdrive of 4 Nimh. This light looks like it'll be a fun starting point.

On a side note, I noticed something interesting that was completely coincidental. I was hanging up some jeans and I was lighting the room with an L2D. I noticed that one pair appeared to be just light blue, but I knew that in daylight they are blue with a dusty brown tint (due to the threading). It was freaky not being able to see the brown tint in the jeans in the light of the L2D. I've never noticed anything like that before. 

Unfortunately, I didn't even have an incan light on hand (unless I wanted to put on of the old 40w bulbs back in the overhead fixture), so I got the next best thing: a TK20. This light seemed to show the brown-ness in the jeans a little better, but it was hard to tell if I was really seeing it or if it was just due to the color of the light; but it was better than the L2D.

Soooo, I'll be repeating this test when I get the Tec40. Maybe there really IS something to this whole color rendering / spectrum thing! 


BTW, thanks for the tip below (and to every one else too for providing ideas!)




ZMZ67 said:


> Although it is not in the brightness class of the lights previously mentioned the Princeton Tec 40 may be worth a look.Not a barnburner by any means but it is inexpensive and can use a variety of easy to find bulbs.Spare parts and a choice of OP or smooth reflectors are available providing the opportunity to experiment a little.http://www.brightguy.com/ is a good place to look but of course there are many other retailers.


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## KevinL (Jul 20, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Stress_Test said:


> Soooo, I'll be repeating this test when I get the Tec40. Maybe there really IS something to this whole color rendering / spectrum thing!
> 
> 
> BTW, thanks for the tip below (and to every one else too for providing ideas!)




CRI (Color Rendering Index) is real, and it will bite you 

(coming from a photographer)

It seems to be quite visible with video cameras as well. I only dabble a little in video, but from a quick glance, a tungsten light source looks better on my video camera than some LEDs. Then amongst the LEDs, there are better options, and poorer options.


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## Dude Dudeson (Jul 22, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



KevinL said:


> CRI (Color Rendering Index) is real, and it will bite you
> 
> (coming from a photographer)
> 
> It seems to be quite visible with video cameras as well. I only dabble a little in video, but from a quick glance, a tungsten light source looks better on my video camera than some LEDs. Then amongst the LEDs, there are better options, and poorer options.



Even being a newbie here and with high performance lights I've already seen that.

Buddy (got a surefire before me and got me into them) has E2E incandescent, I got a 6PL later.

Him = 60 lumens, me = 80.

Well it seemed to me his had more light, and BETTER light.

Granted, he's at a major runtime/battery disadvantage, but like tube guitar amps there's something to be said for the old ways...


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## KiwiMark (Jul 22, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Dude Dudeson said:


> Him = 60 lumens, me = 80.



Wow, those seem like low numbers compared to my dimmest Maglite . . . mind you my dimmest Maglite ain't exactly standard 

Then there's my brightest Maglite - pushing over 6000 Lumen and drawing over 200W of power. I don't get a lot of run time out of that one though. :shakehead


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## half-watt (Jul 22, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

i know that you said no "123a". however, there are relatively inexpensive options (~$88) - just hear me out:

Without even considering Li-ion rechargeables, let's just look for a moment at Lithium primaries. 

Ask yourself how often are you going to burn through a set (let's say, two) of CR123A cells? Once every couple of weeks? That's ~50 cells a year at one dollar per cell from BatteryJunction for decent Titanium cells; a bit more if you want Duracell, Energizer, or Surefire (12cells for about $21 or less - check BrightGuy.com or BatteryJunction.com).

If you're going to be using primarily LED lights and less frequently the Incand. light, then you may use even fewer CR123A cells.

If you think that you might like to try a 2xCR123A cell light, how 'bout a Surefire? Yes, I know what you said, but here's an inexpensive one: the SF G2 Nitrolon (~$36USD). I've added a 3-level AW Softstart switch (from Lighthound.com, ~$52USD). This set-up has made me really enjoy Incands for more than just very bright output (like fr/my ROP and FiveMega bodies+LumenFactory high-output lamps).

I find the G2+Softstart with either the standard lamp ***'y or a high-output lamp (SF or LumenFactory) a truly enjoyable light to use. On low, it's a bit more yellowish, but very kind to the eyes when indoors or using it for proximity lighting. On Medium the color of the light "whitens" right up and is so bright that I only occasionally need High - which means that the 2xCR123A cells last longer. This setup (G2 plus AW Softstart switch) costs about $88 (~$36 for the Surefire G2 and ~$52 for the switch - both w/o shipping costs and sales tax).

I've even added a clip off of a Pelican PM1 1xCR123A light under the bezel of the G2 (it needed just a very wee bit of Dremel work to open the ID up enough to fit over the threads onto which the stock bezel screws down onto). 

just a thought. maybe not your first incand (especially if you want extremely bright output), but something to keep in mind for an EDC incand. 

I've also done the same AW Softstart switch mod for a G3 - very nice also, but a longer light, obviously, and a bit more difficult to "pocket" or clip to the belt as an EDC, but still very EDC-able, depending upon what you normally wear.

Another small EDC incand is the Aurora Hot-wire mod for the 2xAA MiniMagLite, but here you'll need 2x14500 (Li-ion rechargeable) cells to power it. I purchased the parts for the mod from Lighthound.com. 

A Surefire E1e Executive Elite incand with a 1xRCR123A cell and a LumenFactory high-output lamp is nice also. Cost is a bit more though since, besides the light, you'll need to purchase an appropriate Li-ion charger and some RCR cells.


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## KevinL (Jul 22, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Dude Dudeson said:


> Even being a newbie here and with high performance lights I've already seen that.
> 
> Buddy (got a surefire before me and got me into them) has E2E incandescent, I got a 6PL later.
> 
> ...



Try the ROP.... tons of light, tons of cheap, ends up (give or take) about the same price as a 6PL 

Oh, incandescent, yes. Driven hard, you can get maybe 600-700 lumens of incandescent love. 

I'd use that as my video light if I needed one 

Oh yeah, to the OP. If you are still looking for more adventure, try the Surefire G3. Or C3 with P91 lamp. Great way to fly....STILL a great way to fly!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 22, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



half-watt said:


> i know that you said no "123a". however, there are relatively inexpensive options (~$88) - just hear me out:
> 
> Without even considering Li-ion rechargeables, let's just look for a moment at Lithium primaries.
> 
> ...


It is possible to use the AW Softstart with extreme high-output *IMR* setups?


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## Krispy (Jul 22, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

OK. I vote for Wolf-Eyes Sniper with WE 3.7 volt lamp & Lion 18650 (AW). $35.96 with CPF discount (Pacific Tactical Supply). Comes with LED tailcap. Cheap Aviator alternative with more power and run time.

Add another $30.00 bucks for battery & charger (Lighthound).

Wolf-Eyes flashlights have a satisfying heft & feel to them. I recently (downgraded ?) from supersniper config (2 x 18650 with extension tube and Surefire P-91 bulb). Rather ungainly and not pretty, but bright.

The Sniper has a nice white beam for an incan with a nice large hotspot and smooth transition to spill (very Surefire-like).

I scuffed up the clear plastic LED cover with a scotch brite pad to smooth out the beam. I have the red LED tailcap. Very useful for preserving night vision.

Sometimes less is more. The out the from lumens is 100 or so but seems brighter. The general rule for incans is "the fun starts at 9 volts", but this is the exception that proves the rule.

Wolf-Eyes was my first introduction to incans, based on MDOCOD's & PaulInMaryland's posts.

I believe that the only way to go with incans is lithium ion's power density.

Those 3v camera batterys are just too expensive to be practical in a non tactical environment.


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## FlashKat (Jul 22, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> It is possible to use the AW Softstart with extreme high-output *IMR* setups?


 Yes it is possible.. I am using the AW soft start with 3 IMR16340 batteries driving a FiveMega G4 D26 Sunlight using a 1185 lamp.


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## half-watt (Jul 23, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> It is possible to use the AW Softstart with extreme high-output *IMR* setups?



all i know is that, IIRC, the specs on the switch(including electronics, of course) is 75W. i forget the voltage range (i think +30VDC max, *BUT* better check me on this as i may be thinkin' of another product). 

so, just don't exceed max V and P limits. actually, since i don't know how much, if any, of a safety margin is designed in here, nor do i know the recommended MAX continuous P limits, you may not want to reach that 75W P limit. of course, it might be perfectly safe for continous use (greater than 5 or 10 minutes, let say) at 75W.

contact Lighthound.com for a better answer.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 23, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



half-watt said:


> all i know is that, IIRC, the specs on the switch(including electronics, of course) is 75W. i forget the voltage range (i think +30VDC max, *BUT* better check me on this as i may be thinkin' of another product).
> 
> so, just don't exceed max V and P limits. actually, since i don't know how much, if any, of a safety margin is designed in here, nor do i know the recommended MAX continuous P limits, you may not want to reach that 75W P limit. of course, it might be perfectly safe for continous use (greater than 5 or 10 minutes, let say) at 75W.
> 
> contact Lighthound.com for a better answer.


Thanks man! I don't even have any lamps that's above 30 watts, so I should be fine.


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## Akarusa (Jul 25, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

I built my first incan last month. One of AlanB's regulators dropped into a 2D Mag with 2x unprotected LiIon D-cells and a Philips 5761 regulated to 7.2v. Started my first fire with it just this morning, I did.
:twothumbs


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## Stress_Test (Jul 25, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Well, I got the Tec40 and I've been trying it out, so here's the first report 

I loaded up the light with Rayovac Hybrids. I knew that the alkalines would probably be brighter initially, but I wanted to go straight for the nimh. The beam was a warmer color than I was expecting, but I'm guessing that was due to the lower voltage (they were about 1.34 when I put them in). The xenon Magnum Star bulb may give a whiter output, but I'm going to stick with the stock bulb for a while. 

After getting used to the warm beam color, I actually find it nice; like fire light. I haven't run around with it outside yet but in some cases even indoors I notice the improvement in the color rendition. I've got an olive drab brown coat that looks kind of grey-ish in led light, but the incan really shows the color better. 

BTW, I went on the Cree website again and looked at the CRI for the XR-E series. The data sheets states that BOTH cool and neutral white have a typical value of 75(!). The warm white only goes to 80. That's worse than I remembered, but given that info it's no wonder the incan makes things look better!

(but I'm still using my led lights for edc for the sake of efficiency and compactness  ) 

Next up I'm thinking about ordering some more 18650 cells and putting them into a 2C Mag I've got, along with a Radioshack 6-cell bulb (also on hand). I initially didn't think this would be worth doing due to lower voltage, but after reading that "incan guide" thread, it sounds like it does work, so I think I'll give it a shot!


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## DimeRazorback (Jul 25, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Being an LED kinda guy myself, I would definitely recommend a Surefire A2.

You still have LED's and it is a great incan to kick off with!

I'm now looking at getting more incans :devil:

Including the M6


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## Beamhead (Jul 25, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Streamlight TL3.


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## Boy SureFire (Jul 26, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

SF E1e:thumbsup:


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## Linger (Jul 26, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

I'm in a similar situation to OP being a LED user, except I recently recieved a Lumensfactory Eo6 d26 drop-in (solarforce L2 host). Lots of warm-tint lumens there.

I'm looking for more incan goodness in p60 format. So the FM bi-pin adapters seem excellent. Question is which one, the 1.5 or the G4 2.5 The smaller has the Nite offered FM1760 custom bulb which looks hot. But the G4 seems to offer more configurations.

I realise i'll need an extender to really make these sing, haven't decided if it'll be a 16340 x or a 18650x. Can i keep the feel of the light small with 2x 18650? dunno, it might have to be the smaller 16340 extender.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 26, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



linger said:


> I'm in a similar situation to OP, except I recently recieved a Lumensfactory Eo6 d26 drop-in. Lots of goodness there. I've also got a Underwater Kinetics D4 sunlight halogen, which is pretty cool.
> 
> I'm looking for more incan goodness in p60 format. So the FM bi-pin adapters seem excellent. Question is which one, the 1.5 or the G4 2.5 The smaller has the Nite offered FM1760 custom bulb which looks hot. But the G4 seems like more configurations.
> 
> I realise i'll need an extender to really make these sing, haven't decided if it'll be a 16340 x or a 18650 x I've got larger incans (like 12v SLA car chargers) but that's not the same as a pocket or 'tactical' light. So can i keep the feel of the light small with 2x 18650? dunno, it might have to be the smaller .5 extender.


Buy a Leef Body 2x18500 + 2x18500 IMRs + LF IMR-9. You can get them all from Lighthound.

Cheers


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## Linger (Jul 26, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Buy a Leef Body 2x18500 + 2x18500 IMRs + LF IMR-9. You can get them all from Lighthound.
> 
> Cheers



hrm, why a new leef body instead of extender to go with my 18650 host?

and can you say why you like lf imr-9 over a fm d26adapter?

I asked which FM d26 adapter as it'll be cheaper to buy replacement bulbs over complete LA's. The 2.5mm (G4) or the 1.5.


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## Boy SureFire (Aug 6, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

uuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhh I hope this thread isn't dead:sigh:


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## Monocrom (Aug 6, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

One vote for a Mag623.... Although Smokey the Bear gonna hate you if you go into the woods with it.


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## Boy SureFire (Aug 6, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

I wonder how he got the name "smokey" 
P.S. puff and pass is what i think they use to call it in the 70s


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## Stress_Test (Aug 22, 2009)

*Re: Okay incan fans, what's a good (fun) intro light for an led-only guy?*

Well, I think that deep down inside, we all knew how this was going to end up...................

















Yeah baby!!! :devil:



You all have convinced (corrupted???) me to get my very first SureFire! 

Funny little side story about how I got it: I called the local gun shop and asked if they carried the 6P. The lady there quoted me a price of $79 for the standard and $99 for the Defender... I was thinking  ! After much thought that night, I decided heck with it, I want my instant gratification rather than waiting on mail order (which is about $62). 

I drove to the shop this morning, and it turned out that she was quoting me prices for the LED models, which made more sense. I looked around the display case and didn't see an incan 6P. I was debating whether or not to just go ahead and get the LED model (and an incan lamp later) when I spotted a 6P original on the wall rack... the last one!! And it was only $59! And to make it even sweeter, the guy didn't charge me sales tax for some reason! Not like they needed the money; this place has been making piles of money hand over fist since the election. But it was still a nice gesture. 

BTW, I'm not much of a gun person but I browsed the selection while I was there. I was tempted by a Savage(?) .22 Magnum bolt action rifle with red fiber optic sites, but I didn't get it. I'm kinda wondering now if I should've picked that up too, heh heh. Maybe I'll go back in the next few days and snag it if it's still there.

Anyway, back to the light. I love it. There's not a whole lot left to say :thumbsup: I admire its simplicity and good machining. I even like the way it smells! (haha, you might be a flashaholic if....) 

I have 17670s and charger enroute from 4-Sevens. Next I gotta pick out a 3.7V lamp; Lighthound has a pretty good selection. I've been checking out the LumensFactory stuff but some of them are out of stock. I'll see what I can snag.

Thank you everyone! (I think!  )

lovecpf


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## 325addict (Aug 23, 2009)

Now you got a 6P, and want it really bright? Take a P90 lamp assembly, and two AW protected 16340s.... half an hour of very bright light (really waayyy brighter than the P60) will be yours 

Want it even brighter? :devil:
Take a P91 and two IMR 16340s :devil: :devil:
Ten minutes of insane bright light will be the result :thumbsup:

For the second mod, make sure you didn't buy a very old 6P with the Lexan lens... it must have a GLASS lens for this, otherwise it will melt down!

Timmo.


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## ElectronGuru (Aug 23, 2009)

+1 on the two IMR 16340s

And check with Nite/FiveMega when you're ready for 1000 lumens....


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## 325addict (Aug 23, 2009)

Exactly... all you need is an M6, with FiveMega Bi-pin adapter and Fivemega 3X 17670 adapter... maybe add an AW soft start and then you're ready to go: put in a WA 1185 in that bi pin holder and... WHHOWWW, that's _light!_

1234 Bulb-lumens if overdriven to 10.8V :thumbsup:

This was the winning combination in DM51's excellent M6 "shoot-out"-thread.

Timmo.


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## RichS (Aug 24, 2009)

325addict said:


> Exactly... all you need is an M6, with FiveMega Bi-pin adapter and Fivemega 3X 17670 adapter... maybe add an AW soft start and then you're ready to go: put in a WA 1185 in that bi pin holder and... WHHOWWW, that's _light!_
> 
> 1234 Bulb-lumens if overdriven to 10.8V :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


 
Just bear in mind that the WA 1185 bulb pulls 3.35A at 10.8V, which is over the 2C max for typical 1600mAH 17670 cells. This is why I opted to use the LF M6-R instead with this configuration. The M6-R only draws 2.1A, and throws like crazy. 

-Rich


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## Phaserburn (Aug 24, 2009)

Let me propose something simple, cost effective and easy to do:

Ultrafire WF-500 - $25

Unlike many UF lights, this one is of very good quality and finish; and not even for the price, either.

2x18650s power it. It's extremely bright, and throws very well but with a nice, clean, useful beam. I believe this is an incan sleeper here on CPF. It draws around 3A, so with 2600 cells you'll probably get around 40+ mins runtime. At over 20W, this light is every bit as powerful and then some as many others mentioned more frequently.

Options:

UCL (mag D size) - $5
Lumens Factory bulb HO-R5, rated at 630 bulb lumens (brighter, whiter and longer lasting) - $20 note: the factory bulb is no slouch. They are very cheap as well. I have the LF, and keep the factory bulb as backup.

That's it. Plug and play. Easy to reload outside if needed, too (no batt carriers, etc.).


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## nfetterly (Aug 24, 2009)

325addict said:


> Now you got a 6P, and want it really bright?
> 
> Want it even brighter? :devil:
> Take a P91 and two IMR 16340s :devil: :devil:
> ...



This is what I did for a nice short light (I prefer 2x18650 with FM1794 bulb). I also use the AW 3 level soft start in the tail.

For more P91s I posted a WTB & picked up P91s for 2x$15 and 1x$15.

I've never run it flat out, but I can walk the dogs a few nights (using light occasionally) no problem.

For EASY & BRIGHT - it's the way to go - post a WTB & pick up the IMR 16340s.


If you are sold on that then get the soft start, 2x18650 body, FM D26 & FM1794 (see NITE) bulbs.


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## NE450No2 (Aug 25, 2009)

Stress Test

I think you made an excellent choice.

While my favorite everyday, carry everywhere light is a SF A2, I would have recommended any Sure Fire that uses the P60 series bulb.

I am still using the first 2 that I bought back in 1986 or 87.

For a fella on a budget the G2.

For the Handgun Shooter a Z2, GZ2, or M2.

For the Classic the 6P.

You cannot go wrong with any of them.

I prefer to stay with regular 123 primarys.

With them, when you pick the light up you know it will golw in the dark.

I would get a SF Spares carrier, with an extra bulb, and batteries and keep in with your 6P.

Then you have a "system" that will never let you down.


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## Stress_Test (Aug 29, 2009)

Okay, I got a Lumens Factory EO lamp, and combined it with an AW 17670 battery. It's rated at 190 but that must have been tested with a bench top power supply or something. It's actually about the same brightness as the stock bulb or the 65 lumen low of the TK11 (the TK11 may be just a tad dimmer; hard to say with the different color temp).

The output is still pretty good though for most cases. I haven't done any runtime checks yet so I don't know how long it'll run. But wow, the light quality is really good! After using this light for several minutes, when I switched back to one of the led lights I was like :mecry:

I can't wait to take this thing camping and try it out in the woods!


On a side note, I tried the 17670 with the stock 6V bulb, and it was actually pretty decent! The output looked to be about half (~25 to 30 lumen maybe) and the color temp was still pretty good. I didn't check, but I imagine the runtime would be pretty good for this setup. Might be a good choice for someone looking for a longer running, incan EDC.


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## Black Rose (Aug 29, 2009)

Interesting. I am considering getting the LF EO-4 to get a better quality drop-in than the $3 - $4 incan drop-ins I currently have that came with my Spiderfire L2 lights.

But even with those I am pleasantly surprised with these incans, even though the hotspot on a white wall is rather odd shaped.


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## mdocod (Aug 30, 2009)

Stress Test, 

Sometime, you might try the Wolf-Eyes version of the 3.7V D26 lamp. (make sure to order with the SF spring option)... I've heard that they've done a pretty good job with that lamp and is one area where the LF lamps don't compete as well....

The LumensFactory 3.7V lamps have been sort of hit and miss. 

Great example of how I just know they are under performing, take a ES-9 and compare side-by-side to an HO-4, both rated for 150 lumens, the ES-9 appears notably brighter. 

I guess optimizing low voltage high current bulb designs is pretty difficult. I'd like to see those bulbs scrapped and re-done, but considering the application for such a bulb, I think a filament design based on a regular 3-cell flashlight bulb (~0.8A) would probably be a bigger hit, as it would be more efficient and help fill a long-runtime low output incan gap. 

To see the thing really scream, a pair of IMR16340s as others have suggested really opens up the door to major lumens. Even the SR-9/P90 class of bulbs will likely appear notably brighter than the EO-4.


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## Stress_Test (Sep 3, 2009)

Okay, I took some current readings from the tail of the body to the negative end of the battery (AW 17670). Battery voltage was about 4.14V.

Lumens Factory E04: 2.3A (!)

SureFire P60: 0.95A

These were just brief, initial readings, not sustained; only held long enough for the meter to settle out.

No wonder the E04 burns through the battery fast! 

I'm going to try using just the P60 and the 17670 for a while, 'cause I'd rather have more runtime. For me, anything less than an hour run time is really starting to limit the usefulness, and <30min falls into the "toy" category (not that there's anything wrong with that!)


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Sep 3, 2009)

Stress_Test said:


> Okay, I took some current readings from the tail of the body to the negative end of the battery (AW 17670). Battery voltage was about 4.14V.
> 
> Lumens Factory E04: 2.3A (!)
> 
> ...


The P60 is designed for 6V setups, a single 17670 doesn't have enough voltage so performance will be atrocious. Get the SR-4 for similar P60's output and runtime on a single AW 17670 cell. Or the ES-4 for even longer runtime...


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## Black Rose (Sep 4, 2009)

Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Get the SR-4 for similar P60's output and runtime on a single AW 17670 cell. Or the ES-4 for even longer runtime...


SR-4 and ES-4 are no longer listed on the LF site.


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## TheInvader (Nov 26, 2009)

Funnest light would be a ROP mag mod.
Cheap, easy to build if you use 123's.

Acquire a 2C maglite, get some PVC, insert 3 CR123's, buy a Pelican 3854 bulb set (lo and high) and use lo for more runtime, high for more lumens.
Produces around 800 torch lumens on a good day.
Total cost: $50 including 2C host and bulbs.


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