# How many lumens is enough lumens?



## ev13wt

I understand you can never have enough lumens... But how much is enough for certain tasks? Lets leave out S&R and tactical use.

Lets not focus in throw vs. spill too much in each scenario, although of course you can give a preference. 
Max Lumens the light should have: 



Walking the dog in suburbia?

Camping site?

General in-house use?

2 day blackout?

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night?

Walking in the woods?

EDC?


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## petr9999

my opinion

Walking the dog in suburbia? 

10k

Camping site?

1k

General in-house use?

1k

2 day blackout?

1k

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night?

1k

Walking in the woods?

5k

EDC?

never enough (never know how many you will need )


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## StarHalo

Most everyone is going to give you numbers that are way too high; almost everything you've listed could be covered with not more than 25 lumens (dog walking excepted), and you'll still be on the same set of batteries when they've had to change out several times..


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## brianna

I have a Surefire E1B 110 lumen's. I have found this to be enough for all your above situations. Inside the house the 5 lumen setting was plenty.

Camping, in the house, flat tire, walking in the woods I have found a headlamp works best. I have a surefire minimus 100 lumen and rarely use the top setting.


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## S1LVA

I find that 150,000 lumens is a sufficient amount for general tasks :devil:

Seriously though... A light with 3 well spaced modes can be an ideal EDC. My Alpha XM-L from Darksucks is MY ideal EDC. Low is great for most tasks; medium is excellent for when I need more punch; and high is insanely bright for lighting up a huge outdoor area or just showing off 

Just my 2 cents.
S1LVA
:wave:


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## greenlight

For most of my applications I would say that 10 would be sufficient, however I like them all focused in the same direction for what appears to be a bright beam.


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## jmpaul320

50-100 imho is enough, except for dog walking maybe 200... but if you want to be really spechal, you need 2000 lumens.


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## reppans

StarHalo said:


> Most everyone is going to give you numbers that are way too high; almost everything you've listed could be covered with not more than 25 lumens (dog walking excepted), and you'll still be on the same set of batteries when they've had to change out several times..


+1

I use my lights for everything OP listed. I use Moonlight and 3 lm the most....guess I like letting my night vision work for me. A 100 lumen max is nice to have but I really only need to use that for spotting deer in the woods or riding a bicycle at speed at night.

I have a 450lm light running on 2x14500s, but IMHO, the work/hassle/costs of lithium primary and Li-ion rechargeables is really subject to the laws of diminishing returns. I like 1xNiMh the best.

(interesting, I walk my dog on 0.3 or 3 lumens. I especially prefer to be discrete when my dog does his business on neighbors lawns)


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## eh4

42 of course.

Realistically some light with a user interface that lets you easily shift brightness according to what you're doing, looking down and close, then looking far away and then back to the trail or task in front of you.

Fractions of a lumen for when you're eyes are dark adjusted, maybe 10-30 for doing lots of things effectively, maybe 100-300 or more with throw for finding something or someone lost in the distance or dealing with a momentary crisis. 

I think that a range of settings from less than a lumen to something around 100 lumens is really great, with 2-30 lumens being used most of the time. 
Something with a range from ember, to candle, to torch is about perfect, bonfire is fun but rarely needed.


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## bbb74

My opinion:

Walking the dog in suburbia?
100. 2000 for fun.

Camping site?
For headlamp, 100 would be fine. For lighting up gazebo/tarp etc - 500-1000 (total, from multiple sources)


General in-house use?
50

2 day blackout?
50

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night?
50 to fix it. 5000 if you are scared or there are growling noises, or a zombie outbreak at the same time.

Walking in the woods?
3 if i'm wanting some night vision. 100 if i don't care about night vision. 800 to throw.

EDC?
100


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond

Walking the dog in suburbia?
- I don't have a dog but I would imagine 25 would be more than sufficient for suburbia (ie: streets and sidewalks). For rural maybe 50 would be better.

Camping site?
- I would say 10-25 would be good for personal use around a campsite. 25-50 if you want to illimuinate for more than one person.

General in-house use?
- 0.001 - 5 lumens for around the house at night. 50-100 if you need to illuminate for work.

2 day blackout?
- 10 lumens should be more that ample for illuminating each room.

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night?
- 25-50 to illuminate work area, although I would want more to make sure people see me so closer to 50-100.

Walking in the woods?
- Personal taste but I find 100+ lumens is my personal minimum for forest walks. Preferable would be 300 lumens that can reach out and touch the trees in the distance. If any critters are going to be coming at me I want to be able to see eyes at a distance.

EDC?
I want something with a range from at least 1-150 lumens for EDC with a minimum of 3 levels. More levels is better. Infinite variable is best.

Note: The are my honest answers to the OP question. In general having more lumens on tap in every outdoor situation is the best for me. 1500+ lumens out in the woods is awesome, turning day into night. For most of the other situations having a top of 200-500 lumens will always come in handy.


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## Burgess

Purty' Near anything I do (at night)

is quite adequately managed with 1 to 25 Lumens.


If a light is bright enough to make yer' eyes "stop down", then it's just WASTED !


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## riccardo.dv

bbb74 said:


> Walking the dog in suburbia?
> 100. 2000 for fun.
> Camping site?
> For headlamp, 100 would be fine. For lighting up gazebo/tarp etc - 500-1000 (total, from multiple sources)
> General in-house use?
> 50
> 2 day blackout?
> 50
> Car breaks down? Flat tire at night?
> 50 to fix it. 5000 if you are scared or there are growling noises, or a zombie outbreak at the same time.
> Walking in the woods?
> 3 if i'm wanting some night vision. 100 if i don't care about night vision. 800 to throw.
> EDC?
> 100



Totally agree but the edc. You'll never know how many lumens you'll need, so higher is better for me (with good spaced levels)


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## 901-Memphis

I think 100 is the magic number for most things. I don't find needing more than 200 for most things.


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## HotWire

I find small lights (like the G2) with 100 lumens or less is enough if I can get the light on the spot where I need it. Bright lights are for fun! Or search & rescue. I have 3,000 lumen lights, but... just in case it gets *really* dark!


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## Obijuan Kenobe

Having entered the flashlight world relatively late compared to most around here, I have a rather fresh opinion that seems to find resonance on CPF if you look for it. 

_I find that the main missing niche in the realm of custom lights is the super low._ Moonlight is low enough that you CAN'T read without putting the light very near the page. Moonlight is low enough that you can put the LED next to the eye of a sleeping baby, and nothing happens. Moonlight low is pimp.

Even the McGizmo lights (Don is perhaps the undisputed KING of Ti EDC light making) lack a real moonlight low. I would go so far as to say that many folks have never had a moonlight level at their disposal, and thus have no idea how useful it is. I guess making an efficient driver with this level range is not cake, but they are out there in various forms...just not in many high end customs. 

So for me, you need three levels. I can imagine ideally the current range on a Nichia 219 (for example) at 1mA, 350mA, and 1.2A. Moonlight, flashlight, and BOOM. Flashlight...around 150 lumens. And BOOM does not need to be more than 1000 lumens ever. If it's bright in daylight...what more could you want?

Just my two cents.

obi


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## petr9999

i thought he meant the top end, not bottom... sorry


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## whill44

That is until now (well for me anyway) the Jetbeam RRT01 go's so low it's useless but oh so nice to look at. Just got it today and I truly believe the hunt for my edc light is over with for now. 





Obijuan Kenobe said:


> Having entered the flashlight world relatively late compared to most around here, I have a rather fresh opinion that seems to find resonance on CPF if you look for it.
> 
> _I find that the main missing niche in the realm of custom lights is the super low._ Moonlight is low enough that you CAN'T read without putting the light very near the page. Moonlight is low enough that you can put the LED next to the eye of a sleeping baby, and nothing happens. Moonlight low is pimp.
> 
> Even the McGizmo lights (Don is perhaps the undisputed KING of Ti EDC light making) lack a real moonlight low. I would go so far as to say that many folks have never had a moonlight level at their disposal, and thus have no idea how useful it is. I guess making an efficient driver with this level range is not cake, but they are out there in various forms...just not in many high end customs.
> 
> So for me, you need three levels. I can imagine ideally the current range on a Nichia 219 (for example) at 1mA, 350mA, and 1.2A. Moonlight, flashlight, and BOOM. Flashlight...around 150 lumens. And BOOM does not need to be more than 1000 lumens ever. If it's bright in daylight...what more could you want?
> 
> Just my two cents.
> 
> obi


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## GunnarGG

Burgess said:


> Purty' Near anything I do (at night)
> 
> is quite adequately managed with 1 to 25 Lumens.
> 
> 
> If a light is bright enough to make yer' eyes "stop down", then it's just WASTED !



+1

The darker it is the less lumens is needed.
The only times that I use max on my brighter lights (200-500 lumens) is when I use it in daytime or other good illumination to look into dark holes, under the hood and similar situations.

Edit: Just found this post that I think nicely descibes how much use you can have from just a little light when it is really dark around you:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...arry-a-light&p=3931119&viewfull=1#post3931119


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## ev13wt

eh4 said:


> 42 of course.



 Nice choice!!!



So I guess we could say a nicely spaced light with a low low 0.01 to 2 (moonlight mode), 10, 50, 100-200 light can cover about 85% of our flashlight needs?


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## Lou Minescence

I have found moonlight to 800 lumens would be an ideal amount of light for EDC. Yea mostly the lower modes are used for general tasks, but I have found a need for brightness when dealing with cars. Standing on the side of the road broke down or next to a dog you want to be seen. If you do not have a light shining out 400 or more lumens, traffic does not pay much attention to you. All traffic notices 800 lumens and will slow down. That's my experience.
If I was not going to be encountering cars, probably moonlight to 300 lumens is plenty.


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## rambo180

petr9999 said:


> my opinion
> 
> Walking the dog in suburbia?
> 
> 10k
> 
> Camping site?
> 
> 1k



what is "k"?


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## rambo180

S1LVA said:


> I find that 150,000 lumens is a sufficient amount for general tasks :devil:
> 
> Seriously though... A light with 3 well spaced modes can be an ideal EDC. My Alpha XM-L from Darksucks is MY ideal EDC. Low is great for most tasks; medium is excellent for when I need more punch; and high is insanely bright for lighting up a huge outdoor area or just showing off
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> S1LVA
> :wave:



whats the max lumens on your torch? it would be nice to know how many lumens you consider insanley bright. i'm after an insane torch


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## ev13wt

rambo180 said:


> what is "k"?



K is "Kilo" = x1000


1K is 1000.


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## FPSRelic

Walking the dog in suburbia? 65 lumens. Enough to light up any dark alley quite well. Also morethan enough to light up the path ahead and surrounds.

Camping site?: Depends on the site. One that's pitch black would need no more than a few lumens to navigate around. 10 - 15 lumens for a better lit camp

General in-house use?: 10 - 15 lumens is more than enough for me

2 day blackout?: Only a few lumens. With everything pitch black, youur eyes adjust, and you need less light to see. Runtime is more important

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night? 10 - 15 lumens

Walking in the woods? 65 lumens will light up a dark wood for me

EDC? Something that has the greatest range of outputs/runtimes. You never know what you'll come across or need.


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## TEEJ

Lumens is not meaningful without beam shape info.

For example, 100 L focused tightly is plenty of light close up on a small target of interest, but woefully inadequate on a large distant target.

Example, I have a 131 Lumen Maglite 3 D LED that can throw ~ 3-400 yards. The beam will illuminate a small circle at that range, but, will leave my feet in the dark, and be worthless to use to walk with. If I aim the little circle of light down at my feet, its too tightly focused to give a useful flood, and there's little useful light to see a path/avoid roots, etc.

If I use a Zebralight SC600 it has a broad pool of light, and is excellent for lighting a path for a walk, etc....but its worthless to see any detail over ~ 60 yards away, etc.


IE: A lot of lumens, spread out over a large area, results in a small lux result...so you see a wider area, but dimly, compared to a the same lumens concentrated into a tight beam...so you see only a little patch of light, but with a higher Lux value.

For most tasks, I'd rather light up a wider area and see more context for my environment. If we agree that we see best in daylight...I think its silly to pretend that less light than that is good. Ideally, it would look like we were in day light if we had to see something.

Anything less than that is a compromise in vision.

As making everything around us lit up as if it were daylight is not typically practical, we compromise and talk about what we can get away with, not about what is truly ideal.


To that end, if you think about the OP...the better question is how many LUX is enough for each task....not lumens. That will account for the beam distribution...as its applicable to the scenario...if you need to see a small or large area, it doesn't matter...as WHY you need to see it, for what purpose, will typically dictate how well lit you need it to be, and the value that describes that is Lux, better than lumens.

To simplfy things further, as guidelines, there are published standards for the Lux recommended for many tasks, including emergency egress lighting, crawlspaces, and a great number of occupational and residential tasks.


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## Cataract

Most of these tasks could be accomplished with even 1 lumen -if the ambiant light level is low enough- but I personally want something that can give me up to 180-200 lumens.

Walking the dog in suburbia = 5 to 100

Camping site = 0.02 to 5

General in-house use = 0.005 to 50

2 day blackout = 0.005 to 50 

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night = 100-200 just to be seen

Walking in the woods = 0.02 to 200 (skunk prevention)

EDC = 0.02 to 180-200.


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## skyfire

about 100-150 lumens max is all i would want, but for all of the tasks mentioned above, 50 lumens is very sufficient.


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## JerryM

For many years for general home use, camping, hunting, and fishing I have been satisfied with the old incandescent mag lights. I doubt any were as much as 100 lumens. Most of the time the mini mag was completely sufficient.
I think that 50 lumens or less would take care of everything I am likely to need. For long term power outages I want something that will not use the batteries very fast so maybe 1.5 lumens or less for that.

More is not better in many situations, and in fact sometimes more is less. I am persuaded that if I had a mini mag it would take care of all my personal needs since I am not in the rescue or LE business. I like to see bright lights, but when I need one I do not look for the brightest, but something in the 25 - 50 lumen range. 

Jerry


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## Vish

Understand that everyone is entitled to their opinions. here's mine. 10 Lumens. Why? I have a fenix E 01. Its "Never say die". I use it for lot of uses... well built. serves all purpose that i use it for. In close quarters. I do not intend to use it for far distance lighting nor i have a use. Its easy to EDC. I vote for it.


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## Closet_Flashaholic

Burgess said:


> Purty' Near anything I do (at night)
> 
> is quite adequately managed with 1 to 25 Lumens.
> 
> 
> If a light is bright enough to make yer' eyes "stop down", then it's just WASTED !



Actually, getting my eyes to "stop down" is important to me and not wasted because I am farsighted and with a brighter light I can focus on objects closer without the need for reading glasses (that I may or may-not have nearby).:huh:


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## reppans

Closet_Flashaholic said:


> Actually, getting my eyes to "stop down" is important to me and not wasted because I am farsighted and with a brighter light I can focus on objects closer without the need for reading glasses (that I may or may-not have nearby).:huh:



That's an interesting point - smaller "apertures" should have a greater depth of field. I gotta try that out tonight. 

However, for me, charging and changing batteries is still more of PITA.


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## Burgess

Good Point.

I know ALL ABOUT having to wear Reading Glasses ! 

Since my cataract surgery, i am Farsighted.

Am now 20-20, or Better (at distance).

But anything closer than ~40 centimeters (16 inches)
requires my +2.00 reading glasses.

Otherwise, I simply canNOT FOCUS ! 

Having better light lets me "cheat" a bit, in the marginal area.


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## think2x

Walking the dog in suburbia?...........200

Camping site?................................20-30

General in-house use?....................10-20

2 day blackout?.............................10-20

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night?..20

Walking in the woods?....................100

EDC?


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## Malamute

I've found 25 to be way plenty for most of my use. I have an E2E that I use more than anything, and use the 25 lumen lamps. I find the 50's are more than I need for much of anything. I use the 50's a bit, when camping in the mountains and woods in grizzly country, but just for a "bump in the night" light, but in reality, the 25 does just about as well. Too much light just seems to wipe out my night vison worse, and wash out the area in glare and doesn't really give more practical usable light for me. I keep a 50umen lamp in my spares carrier for a spare, but havent really found much that I need a 50 for in the E2E, other than wanting to have a light bright enough to momentarily blind someone in a defensive mode. I dont have much need for that where I live, just when visiting in more "civilized" areas of the country. I have a 120 lumen lamp for a 6P, but reserve it exclusively for any time I may want to blind someone in a questionable situation.

I mentioned the 120 lumen lamp to a friend that was a Sheriffs deputy at the time. He said "Why, the 50's are plenty to completely blind someone long enough to do what you need to do". I agree with that, but already have the 120, so just keep it for emergencies. I may not replace it if it went out.

It doesn't take much illumination to see animal eyes, they glow with very little light, and pretty far out from you.

I use a cheap Coleman headlamp on low setting for work a lot, and it seems to be capable of most of my camp chores, and getting firewood in at night in the winter at home. I use the medium setting once in a while, but not often. I dont know what lumen level those are. Don't think I've ever used the high setting yet, other than looking around the yard to see what it would do.


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## chmsam

It's surprising how many people only look at one side of things, even when we're well versed in the topic.

While I fully agree that most general tasks can be handled with lights from perhaps running as few as 5 lumens to say a high of 100 lumens or so, no one has mentioned that there are times when you need 200 lumens and often much more *to be seen*.

20, 50, or even 100 lumens will not get the attention of drivers at night if you are working on your car at roadside. I have seen situations where road flares and most flashlights of less than 200 lumens were useless and could make you seem virtually invisible. 

These are situations where you must grab the attention of others quite close to the point of having to blind them. Remember that the vast majority of drivers are behaving as clueless idiots. They're in their own little zone and are seeing nothing farther than the end of the hood of their car. 

There are other situations -- when you are lost, when you are injured, when you are walking on a rainy night and a driver comes at you, etc.


So, reading a book in your tent at night? A few lumens are plenty.
Checking on the barbecue at night? 50 lumens will do nicely.
Walking the dog on an unlit road in the country at night with no traffic? 50 to 100 lumens should handle it even if the dog gets off lead for a bit.

However, broken down at the side of a dark, busy highway on a dark and rainy night? 200 to 500 lumens is only a start. Been there, done that. Trust me when I say that even 100 lumens will be a joke. It's no fun having cars and semis not seeing you or ignoring you as they pass within 10 feet of you at highway speeds. Gimme 200 as a start and I'd like more lumens than that standing at the ready. 


Remember that lights not only let you see but that they also let you be seen.


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## Sintro

*Please note, I am pretty bad at seeing in the dark, don't know why, I have blue eyes though. I used to be play hide and seek, and I'd pick a spot that no one could see me in, I would look at my own hand and stuff. Yet others could see me as if there was weak moonlight shining at me....*

Walking the dog in suburbia?...........*I believe that you need at least 200, though an xml flashlight with a medium deep reflector would be alot better, driven fairly good, getting about 700 otf lumens. This is great because it gives you ample spill, with a hotspot for long distance stuff.*

Camping site?................................*I would think that 50 lumens would be the mininum. I would want a lamp actually, such is that 300 lumen rayovac one.*

General in-house use?....................*Something around 50 lumens is fine for something like working under the sink. Though tint has a lot to do with that kind of situation. Working in the attic needs someting like 150.*
2 day blackout?.............................*You'd be suprised at this. My brother, mom and I were stuck in a 2 day black out. And our light source was just 3 candles, well, specifically those like 48 hour liquid emergency candles. Though they were almost less bright than a regular birthday candle. We'd kept 2 in the living room, and one in the bathroom. We were able to do things like play monopoly and read with this. If I was by myself, I would've wanted like 3 of those 300 lumen rayovac lanterns because I am freaked out by darkness....*

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night?.....*75-200 lumens would be good for this, it depends on the color of the wheel, if it's black or silver. Theres the scary factor again for this situation, you are on the side of a road in the middle of the countryside, and you have to face a wheel with the forest behind you, just ripe for the murdering wanderer...*

Walking in the woods?....................*Some people might be content with 100 lumens, I myself prefer something with a medium 400 lumen mode, then a high/turbo mode of 800 to see long distance stuff if you get to a field. I have coyotes i my area, and they'll get within about 20 feet of me and my dog, but as soon as I shine my light directly in their eyes, they run a way, especially strobe! My area has a ton of buckthorn too, so that makes it harder to see, so I HAVE to have a TON of light. If I was in a pine forest, I would just need like 200 lumens.*

EDC? .........*I'd want something that has a variable brightness, like total variable, 0-1000 lumens. Though, my budget would never allow for something that good. It should have something under 30 lumens, then 150/200 lumens/ then 500.*

I myself tend to like as much lumens as I can get for the task, because I just feel safer having a bright light. Also, I'm usually with another person, so I want to impress them . It all depends on what type of wood you are in too.​


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## Daekar

"Enough" is really subjective, as the hugely varying numbers indicate. If "enough" means sufficient to get the job done and you're not checking on cattle or searching for something in a wide area, 150 lumens is enough to do practically anything if you live in the country where we have real dark. For most tasks, 25 lumens is enough or even too much. The moral of the story is that different amounts are necessary for differenr stuff in different places.


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## TEEJ

sigh.

This should be about lux not lumens.


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## ev13wt

TEEJ said:


> sigh.
> 
> This should be about lux not lumens.



Yes, we have established that on the previous page. But since I wasn't thinking when I made the thread its now too late.

But you can give your *recommendations in lux* if you may. 

Doo eett


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## fyrstormer

In the sage words of some anonymous military guy, "there is no such thing as overkill; there is kill, and failure to kill."

You have enough lumens if you can see what you need to see. You have too many lumens if you're blinded by the backscatter.


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## Colonel Sanders

Last night I walked the dog with a Barn Burner 8500L, a Mac's Customs 3840L, a modded X10 1300L, and an SC600 750L. So that's 14,000L+ to walk the dog. Coulda used a little more though. :devil:


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## Sub_Umbra

How many lumens is enough lumens?

The *wide range* of answers above is interesting. Humans (and their needs) are extremely varied, as are visual acuity and other factors less often considered like *Light Culture* and what kind of *concentration skills* the user has at his disposal in any given situation.

I suspect that there may be no definitive answer.


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## HK45

A light that goes from about 4 to 200 works for me.


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## chmsam

Sub_Umbra said:


> How many lumens is enough lumens?
> 
> The *wide range* of answers above is interesting. Humans (and their needs) are extremely varied, as are visual acuity and other factors less often considered like *Light Culture* and what kind of *concentration skills* the user has at his disposal in any given situation.
> 
> I suspect that there may be no definitive answer.



People will choose what they _think_ they need based only on the equipment they have seen and used and the situations they have been in. Those choices seem to me to be actually fairly limited and understated.

Once you see more, learn more, know more, then you tend to be more open to things and to think about being better prepared.

That's what's great about this forum.


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## texas cop

I guess I'll jump in and give it a try. I like about 5-10 when I'm walking around the house at night. 50-200 does about everything outside in as most of my lights are a mix of throw and flood. A little more throw and I could probably get away with less lumens but I like the spill, its amazing what you can walk right past. Big warehouse, alley way or dark backyards I like 2000 lumens or more. Now a little secret keep one eye closed to keep some night vision and use that light like a camera just a few flashes here and there to get a picture of whats around.


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## trevordurden

I'd say after 25 lumens, beam pattern starts to become more important than output. I'd rather have a 75 lumen wide flood beam than a 100 lumen throw beam for everyday tasks.

Tint also becomes important at higher lumens too.


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## Johnbeck180

I'd say 170-200 lumens is more than enough for most tasks. Heck, I'd even go as far as to say a good 120 lumens is enough. This coming from a guy who used to think that he had to have a light with at least 300 lumens.

Also agree with Trevordurden ^^^^ beam patter is important, I like a smooth transition from hot spot to spill.


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## Fireclaw18

How many lumens are enough? Eleventy-Billion!:nana:. Yes, I'll know my flashlight is bright enough when I can point it at the moon and see the moon light up.

On a more serious note though I find 500 is enough for most tasks. For Reading or walking around the house at night 5 lumens is enough. For walking outside without dark adapted eyes to take out the trash 100 works. But if I want to have enough light so I can see the slugs on the bricks without stepping on them, 500 works much better.

Checking the wooden beams in the celing for leaks during a rainstorm? 100 isn't enough. 500+ works much better.

I typically use my EDC light either as a reading light at night or in very short bursts at max power. Currently I'm using a modded Sipik 58 with reflector, 2.8 amp driver, and XM-L T6 3c neutral emitter. I find the ring-free neutral tint beam with wide hotspot very useful.

Beam pattern and tint are increasingly important. I used to love having max lumens with cool white tint, but now I prefer neutral tints and their ability to better distinguish colors. Lack of distracting rings also helps in making it easier to see what I'm looking at.

For lower modes, I think the best system might be very high PWM like in the Nanjg 105c driver. I'm not a fan of the tint-shift that some of my current controlled lights give at lower brightness settings (such as my SC600 going from a beautiful pure white beam at 750 lumens to an ugly slightly green beam at low lumens).


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## JerryM

Why do folks think they need ultra power to walk their dogs?
Thanks,
Jerry


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## Lou Minescence

JerryM said:


> Why do folks think they need ultra power to walk their dogs?
> Thanks,
> Jerry



There are times I let my dog explore off leash where it is safe from cars. She may be 200 yards away and alerting me. I want to be able to see what is going on without question.
For other times on leash walking down roads, the cars slow down for bright lights. If I hear a car moving fast around a corner,I light up the whole road before the car is close. They always slow down thinking they are going to meet up with another vehicle. Safety for me and my dog. I suppose I don't need any lumens at all, but what fun would that be ?
But that's just me.


----------



## Jvalera

Despite having several blasters, I actually prefer my old SF KL3 30 lumen head and the 100 lumen SF L4 Lumamax for around inside the house. BTW I still 
have a Streamlight cyclone for reading pocket books in the car with no heat or duration issue's.


----------



## Tiresius

You can never have enough lumens...I go anywhere from 1 lumens to 1200 lumens. It really depends on where and how you're using your lights. For biking, I use 1200 lumens for the front and a low strobe mode for my rear. But sometimes I use only 500 lumens when going against traffic so I don't blind oncomming traffic.


----------



## JerryM

Thanks, Lou.
Jerry


----------



## Bigpal

My LD20 is perfect for me for all of those situations. It's bright enough at 180 lumens to walk the dog and disorient if needed. The medium and low settings for everything else. It's the perfect size for me and it lasts a long time.

If I need more, I take the TK45.


----------



## SimulatedZero

Honestly, it depends alot on the situation. But, for walking my dog I use 300 lumens from my TK15. My dog is a basset hound and likes to take off and run. I have spent more than a few nights trying to keep up with her through thick woods. 300 lumens with some good throw is right around the sweet spot for penetrating thick underbrush. 

Camping= 3 - 150 (mostly 3 - 75)

House= 3 - 75

2 Day Black Out= 0 - 3 (Battery conservation, around here you don't know when the lights comeback on)

Car trouble= 300 (Engines are dark and dirty and tend to absorb light. Really, 400 might be better)

Walking in woods= 0 - 50 (though I always keep a tac light on me in case SHTF)

EDC= 100 (E11) Just enough light and throw to be used in case of an emergency and be adequate as a sub-tactical light.
= 35 for general use

I know you said ignore Tactical uses but, as much light as possible really. There have been situations where I wish my TK41 was brighter or threw farther. Unfortunately those situations will always happen no matter how much light you have. You can't have a light that is purpose built to every scenario. Because so many scenarios require opposite things.


----------



## Flying Turtle

For my general around the house use I seldom need more than about 50 lumens, and most of the time get by with 3 or less. There's always scenarios where more might be needed, but these times rarely occur.

Geoff


----------



## mookins

*Lumens and lux*

Lumens is the "amount" of light and lux is the distribution of that "amount" of light. The larger the area, the less lux for a given amount of lumens to begin with.Lux is the perception of brightness and is the most important factor for illumination of stuff.A good example of recommended lux values for various tasks can be found at the following URL. It also includes a lux calculator based on some parameters which include the distance of the illuminated object and the dispersion angle of the light from the source. http://www.ledrise.com/shop_content.php?coID=19Another list of recommended lux values can be had at the following URL.http://www.greenlux.com.au/recommended-light-levels-for-various-tasks-and-activities/


----------



## OccupationalHazard

Everyone is always going to go way on the high side but in honesty I would say:


Walking the dog in suburbia? 70 lumens

Camping site? 150 lumens

General in-house use? 30 lumens

2 day blackout? 300 lumens 

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night? 70 lumens

Walking in the woods? 300 lumens

EDC?[/QUOTE]


----------



## Slazmo

*Re: Lumens and lux*

EDC........................................... 6 to 50 (Inova X1 fits the bill)

Walking at night in suburbia?........... 6 to 50 (depending on situation)

Camping site?................................>50 (Flood - spill lighting prefered)

General in-house use?.................... 30

2 day blackout?............................. 30 - 50

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night?.. 50 - 100

Walking in the woods?.................... 100 - 800 (EA4 should find weird things)

I guess it all comes down to runtime, EDC you want a usable amount of runtime, in the woods / bush you want reliable runtime, car breaks down you want batteries in that torch to have not leaked, with Bugout situations you want super reliable torch with easily accessible batteries that aren't too confusing or hard to replace in pitch black darkness situations.


----------



## rmteo

*Re: Lumens and lux*

Looks like only one poster (mookins) understands the issue. It is all about lux (intensity) and not about lumens.


----------



## markr6

*Re: Lumens and lux*

I rarely find myself going beyond the 400 lumens on my PD32UE. Just depends on the situation. I think most of the previous responses cover each specific task well.


----------



## JCD

*Re: Lumens and lux*



rmteo said:


> Looks like only one poster (mookins) understands the issue. It is all about lux (intensity) and not about lumens.



It's primarily about lux if you're looking _at_ something. It's primarily about lumens if you're looking _for_ something (or navigating).


----------



## rmteo

*Re: Lumens and lux*



JCD said:


> It's primarily about lux if you're looking _at_ something. It's primarily about lumens if you're looking _for_ something (or navigating).


Really?? How so??


----------



## Lou Minescence

There seems to be a certain balance between lux, throw, and lumens people expect. The exact balance would be subjective to each person.
I expect a big lumen light to have a high lux value and a longer throw. That may not always be true but that is what I would expect.
Enough lumens ? Never enough !
But I say 800 lumens, 300 - 400 meters throw with 20k lux is good.


----------



## JCD

*Re: Lumens and lux*



rmteo said:


> It's primarily about lux if you're looking _at_ something. It's primarily about lumens if you're looking _for_ something (or navigating)
> 
> 
> 
> Really?? How so??
Click to expand...


At any given level of luminous flux, increasing illuminance (unit: lux) means that more of the total light is being concentrated into a particular area. We think of this as the hotspot. So if the hotspot gets smaller, the illuminance increases. That's great if we are looking _at_ something, because we already know where we need to point our light to see what we want or need to see. We can get away with very little luminous flux if it is concentrated into a sufficiently small area.

If we are looking _for_ something, then we don't know where we need to point the light to see the object of interest. A small hotspot just makes it difficult to search, since a smaller area is illuminated. In such cases, instead of concentrating our light, we want to spread it around a large area area, which decreases illuminance. Because we want to illuminate a larger area, we need increased luminous flux (unit: lumen), even if we don't want or need high illuminance.

Intuitively, we know that a light that is all throw with no spill is useless for walking through an unfamiliar forest. Likewise, a flood light isn't useful if we want to get a good look at an object 150 meters away.

Illuminance and luminous flux are closely related. We can't have one without the other. Sometimes we want to maximize illuminance, given our level of luminous flux. Other times we want to minimize illuminance, given our level of luminous flux. For most tasks, it is desirable to neither maximize nor minimize illuminance, since this allows us greater versatility with our light.


----------



## Colonel Sanders

*Re: Lumens and lux*

How many lumens is enough? :thinking: Well, I'm up to over 17,000 with one of my lights....I'll let you know if I ever reach "enough". :candle:


----------



## Burgess

*Re: Lumens and lux*

:candle:


For *me* . . . .

-- Indoors: 10 Lumens (or less) is quite sufficient for most tasks


-- Outdoors: (i live in a very rural area) 10 Lumens for walking around.

And 100+ Lumens if i hear a " WhatTheHellWasTHAT ? " noise !


----------



## StarHalo

*Re: Lumens and lux*



Burgess said:


> -- Indoors: 10 Lumens (or less) is quite sufficient for most tasks



Yup, you never really get beyond medium mode indoors, with the majority of use on low.

And I don't like anything over ~5000 lux in an EDC; a big, broad beam is best for general use.


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## jwrebate

A few points and an illustrative story:

The great thing about LED lights today is that we have a choice of output in a single flashlight. in the "olden days" (10-20 years ago) of flashlight technology, variation in incandescent output involved changing light bulbs. In other words, if you wanted the option to put out 10, 50, and 200 lumens, you carried 3 lights unless you had a fancy surefire with a main bulb and a secondary high output bulb. The fact that current LED lights can be programmed to put out any level of light (of course limited maximally by the led emitter itself and the power source) represents an incredible step forward in flashlight technology.

If you are using rechargables and are not in a "survival type" situation, I see absolutely no reason why you should purposely select a light that has a lower maximum output of less than X lumens. If you have a flashlight that can put out 50000000 lumens but also has a low mode of 5 lumens, you don't have to use the insanely bright max mode, BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE THAT OPTION. Options are good. 

Now the story

Case in point, I was taking a walk with my mom around our city one night where a fair amount of construction was going on. I was carrying my edc, a 4 sevens quark 123^2 with an XML LED and pushing 350 OTF lumens. I was using the low mode at the time for general navigation (no streetlights due to the construction) I was crossing the street (lined on both sides with concrete construction barriers) at a red light when a man in a mercedes talking on his cell phone drinking a soft drink and looking at his GPS comes barreling around a curve in the road at about 55 MPH (speed limit is 40 and he doesn't even notice the red light). I didn't have time to get out of the way completely but I did have time to twist the head on the light with my thumb and forefinger bringing up the max 350 lumens. One split second tap on the reverse clicky and the light was in strobe mode. The driver slammed on the brakes and managed to hit me gently enough to cause only a hairline fracture in my ulna and some moderate bruising and swelling on my arm and leg. I am convinced that I would not be writing this post today if I did not have a light bright enough to make the @#$hole pay attention to me and stop. I did not need the 350 lumens on that walk, until I REALLY needed it. 


The moral of the story can be summed up in an old saying:

Its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it

PS: The flashlight also hit the car and was knocked out of my hand and onto the ground. Like me the light was also banged up but ok and still functioning! It rides in my pocket every day like a trusted friend


----------



## Burgess

to jwrebate --


Welcome to CandlePowerForums !


:welcome:


Glad to hear your story had a happy ending.


Stay safe.


----------



## inetdog

jwrebate said:


> I am convinced that I would not be writing this post today if I did not have a light bright enough to make the @#$hole pay attention to me and stop.



Reminds me of a bicycle tail light discussion ages ago. One friend was in favor of the leg-attached moving light or the blinking rear light "so a driver can tell that it is a bicycle." 
Other friend, who was a high power advocate before the LED and CandlePower days, replied "I don't want the driver to think I am a bicycle. I want him to think that I am a motorcycle, or even better a semi, so that he will try to avoid hitting me."


----------



## TEEJ

*Re: Lumens and lux*



rmteo said:


> Looks like only one poster (mookins) understands the issue. It is all about lux (intensity) and not about lumens.



LOL

REALLY?

You might want to scroll through and recount again.


----------



## TEEJ

jwrebate said:


> A few points and an illustrative story:
> 
> The great thing about LED lights today is that we have a choice of output in a single flashlight. in the "olden days" (10-20 years ago) of flashlight technology, variation in incandescent output involved changing light bulbs. In other words, if you wanted the option to put out 10, 50, and 200 lumens, you carried 3 lights unless you had a fancy surefire with a main bulb and a secondary high output bulb. The fact that current LED lights can be programmed to put out any level of light (of course limited maximally by the led emitter itself and the power source) represents an incredible step forward in flashlight technology.
> 
> If you are using rechargables and are not in a "survival type" situation, I see absolutely no reason why you should purposely select a light that has a lower maximum output of less than X lumens. If you have a flashlight that can put out 50000000 lumens but also has a low mode of 5 lumens, you don't have to use the insanely bright max mode, BUT YOU ALWAYS HAVE THAT OPTION. Options are good.
> 
> Now the story
> 
> Case in point, I was taking a walk with my mom around our city one night where a fair amount of construction was going on. I was carrying my edc, a 4 sevens quark 123^2 with an XML LED and pushing 350 OTF lumens. I was using the low mode at the time for general navigation (no streetlights due to the construction) I was crossing the street (lined on both sides with concrete construction barriers) at a red light when a man in a mercedes talking on his cell phone drinking a soft drink and looking at his GPS comes barreling around a curve in the road at about 55 MPH (speed limit is 40 and he doesn't even notice the red light). I didn't have time to get out of the way completely but I did have time to twist the head on the light with my thumb and forefinger bringing up the max 350 lumens. One split second tap on the reverse clicky and the light was in strobe mode. The driver slammed on the brakes and managed to hit me gently enough to cause only a hairline fracture in my ulna and some moderate bruising and swelling on my arm and leg. I am convinced that I would not be writing this post today if I did not have a light bright enough to make the @#$hole pay attention to me and stop. I did not need the 350 lumens on that walk, until I REALLY needed it.
> 
> 
> The moral of the story can be summed up in an old saying:
> 
> Its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it
> 
> PS: The flashlight also hit the car and was knocked out of my hand and onto the ground. Like me the light was also banged up but ok and still functioning! It rides in my pocket every day like a trusted friend



Glad you're OK-ish!

If you'd had the light on say 4,000 lumens, and simply swung it up at him, he might have even seen you soon enough to not hit you at all of course...as the time to stop from 55 mph (~88 feet per second) is critical.


----------



## JCD

inetdog said:


> Reminds me of a bicycle tail light discussion ages ago. One friend was in favor of the leg-attached moving light or the blinking rear light "so a driver can tell that it is a bicycle."
> Other friend, who was a high power advocate before the LED and CandlePower days, replied "I don't want the driver to think I am a bicycle. I want him to think that I am a motorcycle, or even better a semi, so that he will try to avoid hitting me."



I used to subscribe to the philosophy of "other friend" until a far too close call motivated me to reevaluate my rear lighting configuration. Both philosophies have merit, depending on the riding environment.

When the speed limit is high relative to cycling speed, it is important that motorists approaching from behind can tell from a distance that they are approaching a bicycle so they can anticipate closing the gap much more quickly than if it were a motorcycle or car. (Blinking lights should be supplemented with constant on lights to make distance easier to gauge for approaching motorists.)

When speed limits and cycling speeds are closer, bright, constant on lights help cyclists command more respect from motorists.

Like with most things, there is no single practice that is best for all situations.


----------



## reppans

^^ Now that's a great observation! Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## TEEJ

Very true.

As a light source in of itself has no scale, and if assumed to be from a larger source (Truck, etc) then a smaller source will be interpreted as further away. For example: There are cases where a driver saw another car's reverse lights, and thought they were distant headlights, and that they had more time before they approaching car would get to them......only to find that they were MUCH closer reverse lights, too late to avoid a collision. 

For this reason, adding the lighting of the TERRAIN is best for approaching motorists, as they see the CONTEXT of the approaching obstacles. IE: A scale to the object is provided, and appropriate reaction time can be more accurate. If they see the bike and the road/curb/curve/intersection etc, they have the best chance of correctly deciding on what degree of swerving, braking, etc, would be better. A brightly lit area draws attention, as the eye naturally goes to the "hot spot". Adding a beacon and/or strobe to the terrain lighting FURTHER draws the eye to it, as motion also attracts attention. 

If the light illuminates the bike itself, that allows a sense of scale (They know about how big a bike is...) and therefore a sense of distance to it. If the terrain is also illuminated, its adds information as to what they might hit or miss if they try to avoid the bike, as well as adding a larger attention getting area to get their attention in the first place, and so forth.


----------



## Slidder

I subscribe to jwrebates comment "Its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it"

After reading through this thread, and as a noob, is there a flashlight out there that can do both, 1) flood > wide dispursement for walking distances up close and 2) throw > narrower when you need to see further down the trail. Perhaps a head that you can rotate to go from wide to narrower, or do you need two, one that can go wide, another for distance. Any suggestions ???


----------



## StarHalo

Slidder said:


> is there a flashlight out there that can do both



A floody light with a very high high mode; that's why the Zebralights are so popular.


----------



## Slidder

StarHalo said:


> A floody light with a very high high mode; that's why the Zebralights are so popular.



When you say high mode are you referring to something like 8-900 -- lumens OTF or even more. 

Appreciate your responce


----------



## TheSeeker

Which color zebralight is preferred for use as a work around the house and walk the dog type light? More lumens or more natural color?


----------



## StarHalo

Slidder said:


> When you say high mode are you referring to something like 8-900 -- lumens OTF or even more.



The more the merrier; the Zebralight SC52 nudges past the 500 lumen mark when powered with a Li-ion, for a 1xAA light, that's fantastic. The SC600II's 900 lumens is better obviously, assuming you have the extra pocket space and don't mind Li-ion -only operation. 

The only truly flood-and-throw option is HID; these are usually quite large, they burn through batteries quickly, and you can't turn them on/off quickly. The Stanley model in my sigline is roughly eight pounds and about the size of a basketball, however it has a massive 160-degree spill with a hotspot that lights objects a half mile away. Hence the phrase "big gun light".

Focusing mechanisms are generally frowned upon because they don't work well with LEDs and tend to be unreliable/aren't sealed so well.


----------



## Vortus

After discovering that 1000+ is needed to overcome ambient light when under a semi trailer during the day and still see what I want to see. Minimum i'd go with is about 10 or 20 lumen. Moonlight or firefly is useless to me.


----------



## Slidder

Thanks Star, appreciate the feedback. 8lb HID is definately out the question for me.. lol 

Watching a few video's on utube, some that look like potential for what I'am looking for are 
Zebra sc600 This one seem to have good fill and considerate it a mid range
Fennix tk35 ^^ sames as above
Xtar s1 >>> Like the fact its beam is not intense and seems to blend with the good fill and has really good reach
Jetbeam RRT 3 >>> Like the good fill on this one but has really good reach 

Am I on the right track, any other suggestions.


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## StarHalo

The ideal solution is two lights. Your floody/close up light just needs to have good low modes and a broad beam; The thrower will have a narrow beam and need the insane output.


----------



## AloofObserver

I'm no expert by I'd go with these figures (min-max):

Walking the dog in suburbia? 30-200 lumen

Camping site? 1-350 lumen

General in-house use? 1-100 lumen

2 day blackout? 1-350 lumen... 

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night? 30-600 lumen

Walking in the woods? 100-600 lumen

EDC? 1-600 lumen... ideally you want as many modes as is practical.

I tend to agree with some of those saying that setting a max is misguided. It's better to have more than enough than not enough. My figures however are assuming that nothing exceptional is going to happen so the max is the point beyond which I suspect you will not need more.


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## Sukram

We can make a bright light dimmer, but we can't always make a dim light brighter


----------



## degarb

The lumen number depends on the optic. A better question is needed lux, then how much juice you allow your self to spend which then allow you to widen the optic (hotspot and corona). The more electrons you have to spend, the more flood you can afford to buy. Detail vision, is concentrated in the center of vision (say, 15 ish degrees, from my research).

I have concluded 1000 candela (center brightness lux at 1 meter) is minimal for arm length work (I like and need good detail; however, you may be happy with less if you are more interested in movement than detail, contrast and color.). This, 1000 candela, we achieved in 2005 with the lux1 (and good reflector) and a good sized battery source. At double this distance, 4x the lux (called the inverse square law). At triple arm length (rougly 9 foot), 9x this lux, and 16x this lux for 12 foot. Beyond this, yes you can see, but I would not stake my reputation on seeing everything one see's in the daytime. 

Personally, I won't mess with lights that cannot produce a steady amount of light for at least 8 hours. By doing this, I can use the lights on a daily basis, and thus, will have them charged and within arms reach in an emergency. For decades I had 1-2 running lights, but every emergency, the batteries were dead, the unit was corroded, or I could not remember where I had them stored. Since the high powered leds hit stores in 2005, and the advent of lights that run 8 hours (you must mod out the batter supply of cheaper 3 AAA lights), I am never without light.


----------



## xevious

*Re: Lumens and lux*

I'm in agreement that any good quality 3-mode (minimum) light with several modes ranging from 10~25 lumens low to 120~200 lumens high will be plenty capable of dealing with all of the scenarios outlined. And if you want to step up a little from there, get a continuously variable light so you can adjust for exactly the amount of light you really need.


----------



## bluemax_1

Slidder said:


> I subscribe to jwrebates comment "Its better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it"
> 
> After reading through this thread, and as a noob, is there a flashlight out there that can do both, 1) flood > wide dispursement for walking distances up close and 2) throw > narrower when you need to see further down the trail. Perhaps a head that you can rotate to go from wide to narrower, or do you need two, one that can go wide, another for distance. Any suggestions ???


Sounds like the Eagletac G25C2-mkII with the flip-up diffuser is right up your alley.

XM-L2 emitter, close to 1000 lumen output. 20,000cd for throw, flip the diffuser down and you've got a nice area flood. Decent mode spacing from ~7 lumens to almost 1000.


Max


----------



## degarb

*Re: Lumens and lux*



JCD said:


> It's primarily about lux if you're looking _at_ something. It's primarily about lumens if you're looking _for_ something (or navigating).




I like, and am struck by, this thumbnail summary.


----------



## earthman

I've just got a Thrunite TN12, the lowest setting of 0.3lm is just about right for me, when trying to get to the toilet in the middle of the night without fully waking yourself up. LOL
It's other outputs of 20,280,800 and 1050 seem to cover everything else that I need a torch for.


----------



## ForrestChump

More.


----------



## bright star

I find 10 to 700 lumens more than covers;s everything. That being said i have 2900 lumen;s on standby, You know just in case.


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## jorn

Walking the dog in suburbia? 
-around 100-200 if it,s well focused.

Camping site? around 2 -15, max 15 if its a floody one. Dont want high lux to screw my (or other pepoles) night adapted eyes too much. 

General in-house use? 
-Plenty. Got all this ambient light at home to overcome, and no nightvision is needed later. 

2 day blackout? 
-Live in the arctic, so use candles, will also help with heating. In summer we got the sun up 24h a day so it wont turn dark anyway. In my 36 years, the longest blackout i have seen was 12 hours, so i have yet to experience a 2 day one 

Car breaks down? Flat tire at night? 
-A lot, More is better. Not to see what im doing, but for the other cars to see me sitting next to the car. And if i need a light, it means its a time of the year when it's cold outside, so it's nice to have a bright "handwarmer".

Walking in the woods?
-same as camping. Prefer my night adapted eyes over any light. So the light is used only to light up my steps right in front of me. 
It lets me see waypoints like mountaintops etc kilometers away. If you play around with tousands of lumens, you will only see whats in your "small" bubble of light. In general if im outdoors for a long period, less is more. My two worst walks down from a mounitian was when i only had a one mode 50K lux handheld, and once a friend of mine had a 2000 lumen one, with bad pwm on the low modes. So had to choose between pest or cholera...

EDC?
0,1 - 100, (aaa keychain lights)


----------



## JerryM

StarHalo said:


> Most everyone is going to give you numbers that are way too high; almost everything you've listed could be covered with not more than 25 lumens (dog walking excepted), and you'll still be on the same set of batteries when they've had to change out several times..



I agree. Some of the stated numbers are actually a disadvantage.
Jerry


----------



## Bob57

25 to 200 outside each night going to the barn or to my truck, 1000 or more when I hear or think I hear critters in the night. 
Living out in the sticks I want to see more then just eye reflections I wanna see what those eyes are on at 100 yards. 
I've had power outages for days so I have many forms of light besides rechargeable, and oil lamps with mantles also produce heat.


----------



## recDNA

For a floody light I like close to 1000. For a focused beam I like 500.


----------



## Anybodysguess

I have a fenix E41 floody with a hot spot for throw, 1000 Lumens on Turbo.

I have found this sufficient for anything I have wanted to do, reaches as far as you want it to for all normal situations, nice flood for closer. Its low is only 20, but I have a 5 lumen capable (still not quite low enough) floody edc (Olight oPen) that I use when I need less.


----------



## wjv

I live in a semi-rural area (1 acre lots)

When I walk my dog I'll use between 20-50 lumens depending on the flashlight (LD22 @50 lumens, LD50 @25 lumens)

Inside the house it's typically 25 lumens or less.

Power outage - 10-50 lumens depending on the size of the room.

Our "house lights" are a 50 lumen MagLite (3xAAA) and a couple Fenix LD22s (3, 50, 105, 215 lumens)

Camp site 50-200 lumens depending on activity

Inside lava tubes 100-200 lumens with a floody beam

Walking in the woods 100-300 depending on environment, density of trees and such.

Reading a menu in a dark restaurant 1-5 lumens

Reading a book @ home or in the camper 30-50 lumens - floody

EDC is my Spark SG5 (1, 8, 40, 110, 280 lumens) and is a pseudo mule. The reflector is dull grey, not silver/chrome.

Have several lights with more lumens (i.e. 1,800 lumen LD50), but have not yet found an actually legitimate use for the higher setting other than "just having fun". . If I worked in search & rescue or as a cop I could see actually needing a light with 800+ lumens.


----------

