# XeVision XeRay group buy feeler



## LED61 (Sep 26, 2006)

I just got off the phone with Dan since I was one of the unlucky late comers to miss his group buy for the XeRay 50 watt. He made no promises, did not push for, nor did he suggest I start this feeler, but he went along with the idea. So, here it is, does anyone have interest in acquiring one of these fabulous lights ? for those unfamiliar with it, details here

http://www.aerovisions.com/hid/hid_searchlights.html


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## tonyd (Sep 26, 2006)

I would think about this with a 100 Watt version:rock:


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

Did he give any indication of what the Group buy price would be?
I would think thats a critical piece of the equation for me at least.

If the price is good, I would definatly consider it.

Would it be based off the price of the last GB?... 

How long does it typically take for these GB's to play out from when they start till the time you actually get your product?


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

tonyd said:


> I would think about this with a 100 Watt version:rock:



I still think making a device that covers "more of a span" is the most appealing and more valuable to me. It would be much more useful for paramedics, firemen, police etc etc. 
One that will burn at a lower wattage to give me great "even all night" runtime or be able to kick into overdrive and "style and profile" for the rare times of when you want to show off or search great distances.

The negative to these type of lights would be that one the one hand If I had a light that would do both 35 and 50 watts removes the need for me to buy of them.. on the other hand it would entice many to buy that would not buy either.

But at any rate.. if this is our only choice I suspect that many "like myself" would want to buy if the price is enticing like in these group buys.

I would be interested in the 50/75watt version too especially if the battery were even bigger.


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## LED61 (Sep 26, 2006)

Dan did not make any promises nor did he give a price. Just assuming any group price would be better than retail or maybe even beat the $100 CPF discount he offers is enough to post in the thread if you're interested or not.


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## windstrings (Sep 26, 2006)

Well I just read the entire Thread from the last group buy.. "I almost didn't find it.. it was so old"... it was very informative.. because of reading it.. hopefully I won't be re-asking many of the questions again since they were addressed in that thread.. I encourage all newbies "as myself" who are interested to read and learn. 

My hats off to Dan for being so patient with all the questions and endurance to educate so many people from differing knowledge bases.

I understand any reluctance you may have Dan to start up another one of these as it must be take tremendous energy from you to deal with all the issues and misunderstandings.

My only thoughts are to encourage you to march on if you have the time and guts to do it again!...

These type of one on one intimate exchanges with you is what allows your product to shine and excel above the other competitors.

A similiar sacrific is done by Rock Stars who must travel and spend time away from thier families to promote thier songs and spread thier fame.
Few do well without stirring excitement of thier product.

I for one appreciate your consideration to offer another Group Buy and I also fully understand if you decline or think the time is bad for now.

Thanks for being so active on this forum.. its really a luxury to be able to ask questions from "the man" and get honest feedback so quickly.


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## windstrings (Sep 28, 2006)

why do I get the feeling that if you would have specified 75 watts instead of 50, this thread would be taking off!

I wonder if he would consider a 75watt GB?..if so, we should start another thread.


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## lasercrazy (Sep 28, 2006)

This would do much better if it was in the Groupbuy/Passaround section. Also if it had prices.


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## windstrings (Sep 29, 2006)

the prices part is critical.. its not fair to ask for "true" buyers when the price is not even noted. Not many people will sign a blank check.

If this is a serious question and you want serious answers... we need a price.


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## LED61 (Sep 30, 2006)

The feeler was not really for a specified price as I stated at the beginning of the thread Dan made no promises, including that of throwing a group buy. He offers a $100 discount right off the bat for CPF'rs from the $895 retail. Obviously the group buy price would beat that but probably not go as low as the previous group buy price of around $600. Assuming a price range of $600 to say $750, again with no promises attached, woud you be interested ? Nonetheless, I will pm Dan and let him know people would like to see a price.


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## windstrings (Sep 30, 2006)

yes I am.. if I could get a commitment for sure of how long the GB will last and price of course, I am even willing to send payment to lock in the deal.

I am ready to by soon, unless I have something concrete as to why I should wait.

There are other lights out there being upgraded this very moment that may be a tasty deal.. but who knows when they will materialize and I really like the xevision anyway. 

But is seems we aren't even that far yet since this is just a feeler.

If you guys move this thread to the GroupBuy area.. make sure you put a notation on this thread first.
And I will let you know if I jump the gun and buy somewhere else before all this finally gets off the ground.


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## toolboy (Sep 30, 2006)

I just got done looking over on flashlight forum and man did they question Dan about his comments about the Razorlite and Razorbeam. There was talk about a group buy over there also for the BB, but it didn't go so well. Don't be surprised if Dan doesn't want to mess with another one. I really appreciate that he allowed me to get one in the original BB sale. Sorry for all the guys who missed out because you have definitely missed out, the BB is for real. I love mine and will never part with it. Thanks Dan except now every other light I own seems dim and sits at home while the BB gets to go out and play.


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## windstrings (Sep 30, 2006)

yea.. I read all that too...
It does peeve you off when you are questioned and you have gone out of your way to maintain a perfect track record and people treat you like a novice that is trying to muscle in.

I know they were just trying to protect thier people, but I found absolutely no untactful manners used that should have upset them.

I see nothing wrong in questioning statements of quality made from unfounded statements of a manufacterer... and he didn't even direct it a any specific company.... he only implied he resented companies throwing around the term of "being aircraft quality" without having to prove it.....
Polarion instantly put themselves on equal ground in the aviation business with a few simple words that no one challenged.

Xevision is all about aircraft stuff... the handheld spotlights is a new experiment for them. Probrably alot more hassle and less lucrative than sticking on a corporate level where the big bucks are.

Its true, we are fortunate to be able to benifit from true "aviation" qualitity parts being put into a mere handheld spotlight without it costing a fortune.


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## LED61 (Sep 30, 2006)

Me? I am new at the forum and did not know he was bashed and so I can see why he does not want to do another one. Yeah, i'm sorry I missed on the group buy if only I had been there..that's the way it goes I guess.


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## A96Honda (Oct 1, 2006)

how much do these bad boys usually run?


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## cue003 (Oct 1, 2006)

A96Honda said:


> how much do these bad boys usually run?



$895 is the MSRP for the light.

Curtis


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## Lips (Oct 1, 2006)

windstrings said:


> yea.. I read all that too...
> 
> 
> Problem is.. it sounds like they didn't really know him over there and some of thier moderators are not as mature as CPF's... not to start a war or anything.. but the moderators either break or make a forum, and that may the the reason people aren't as active over there. They need to accept the responsibility for treating new business so rudely and acting like they are a wolf..... fear can make you miss the real thing baby!





The vast majority (members + mods) are very active happy members at CPF as well. Sounds from your post you are more interested in stirring the pot than talking*/*getting lights... 


.


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## windstrings (Oct 1, 2006)

Lips said:


> The vast majority (members + mods) are very active happy members at CPF as well. Sounds from your post you are more interested in stirring the pot than talking*/*getting lights...
> .



Funny you say that.. If a Gb posted today.. my money would be in today!
Actually.. I take that back.. I am seeking the 75 watter.

But it does sound like I offended you.. sorry.. didn't mean to.

Xevision obviously was unknown on the other forum and they grilled him pretty good.
The did such a good job that now they may withdraw completely from the handheld light business and stay with a more professional "Non retail" crowd.

I wouldn't blame them a bit... dealing with people direct can be cruel.

Its their loss that they grilled him so, but even the people at CPF who admired and appreciated his product may also suffer.


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## WAVE_PARTICLE (Oct 1, 2006)

windstrings said:


> ......Its their loss that they grilled him so, but even the people at CPF who admired and appreciated his product may also suffer.


 
The pot continues to stir..... :shakehead


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## windstrings (Oct 1, 2006)

Lips... I suppose your right... My conversation was not aiding this thread.

This subject same into being because the author of this thread discovered "why" Xevison is reluctanct to participate in GB's.. at least on FF.

It appears he is open to another one this forum providing there are interested people since he is not addressed the same way here.
I believe I read he needs at least 20 people to initiate one.. and those will need to be people who are willing paying customers.

I also see no point at least on my behalf to rehash what damage has already been done in hopes it will just go away.
I have no way of knowing if the person who did the offense has done any attempts to make recompense...
But it would only be professional to do so since his track record is impecable here at CPF, that should buy some credence.

Its not my business directly, other than I share the frustration of the damage it has caused.

Although that person quite possibly just got off on the wrong foot with Dan and his senitments may not be reflected by the whole forum, nor did he possibly mean to come off that way.

So giving eveyone the benifit of a doubt... everyone has a right to have a bad day and to misunderstand once or twice and to be misunderstood.

Possibly all that is under the bridge and this can all me mended for the sake of everyone.

I certainly have no interest in aiding to hate and discontent and it makes it no fun to be on the forum.. except for trolls.

I hereby a ceasing from this discussion and if anyone follows with a rebuttal, I will not comment as I'm sure it will be hard to bite my tongue, but oh well.
I think everyone is sorry for the misunderstanding.. so lets move on....

*and back to the business at hand....*
I for one want a 75 watt Barn Burner.... I will only settle for the 50 Watt if I hear Dan say there 75 watters are no longer an option.

Back in July, it sounded like they were about 2 months away from production, but something has fouled up the progress.

As far as price..it appears its obvious that the GB price "for the 35 or 50w" will be something below the regular discount of 895.00 minus 100.00 CPF discount... we just don't know how much yet.

As far as I am concerned if you want a light with bulletproof quality and fierce performance.. this light cannot be beat for the price.
I have been doing alot of digging this week and I know of nothing else more powerful without spending tons more money.

Just as in buying computers.. there is always better coming around the corner, but if you wait, there will be a better one behind that one too.

So I'm electing to buy within a few days unless this will not be an option and I have to go to plan B.


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## lasercrazy (Oct 1, 2006)

The BB is a VERY long time away for any of the non 50 watt group buy participants. The upgrade kits even for the 50w GB are a decent time away.


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## windstrings (Oct 1, 2006)

lasercrazy said:


> The BB is a VERY long time away for any of the non 50 watt group buy participants. The upgrade kits even for the 50w GB are a decent time away.



You may be right... I am going by memory here.... post # 130 here

Unless I misunderstood that post or there is a more recent one, or he could things could have changed by now.


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## windstrings (Oct 6, 2006)

Well GB's are more of an introductory.... to get the word out about a new product campaign.

Although it was eluded to in previous posts that another GB may be pending, I talked with Dan "as I made my purchase today" and at this time he is indicating not so... at least not in the immediate future..


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## aryntha (Oct 7, 2006)

Since I keep on missing HID GB's, I'd be interested.


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## FILA BRAZILIA (Oct 8, 2006)

I am ineterested indeed. Although; depending on GB price. With a good price, I`M IN!!!:naughty: :naughty:


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## FILA BRAZILIA (Oct 9, 2006)

I am VERY interested in GB, if the 75W Barn Burner is offered, and i believe many more agree in that!!  So Xevision; please offer this one to us :thumbsup:


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## karlthev (Oct 9, 2006)

Hmmm, I COULD be interested....  


karl


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## windstrings (Oct 9, 2006)

This is funny!... this thread has been around for a bit yet with little or no interest to speak of.....

Just tell someone they can't have something and everybody wants it!...

I hope Dan is not offended with me speaking what I know... if so, I hope he comes out here and clears the air.


I'm afraid to say anymore than I've already said about this issue, because I suppose Dan could change his mind.... but I wouldn't hold your breath.

I hate to speak for him based on a mere phone call, so I suppose until he gets out here and makes a statement, .......its never over till the Fat Lady sings! 

They have been vasilating between developing even "better" lights with better options such as dual mode outputs, low drain circuit boards, button switches instead of rocker top prevent accidental turn on while in the case, etc etc, while at the same time are contemplateing "getting out of the spotlight business altogether" and only supply parts.
Thier primary money maker is Aviation... not spotlights per se.

Presently they keep getting hanged up on production due to some of the parts not being thier own... ie: bulbs etc.

I had a nice phone call with him and he seems very personable and spent a bit of time with me on the phone even though I know he was neck-deep in crocodiles that day I purchased my light.

I know Dan would like to be able to literally make every part in house to have total control over quality and production.
If that happens, due to their spirit of excellence I have witnessed thus far, they may make a phenominal light better than anyone's expectations.
At this point in the past, he has had to "alter" some of the parts to make them better since they were not available the way he really wanted them in a reasonable time frame... promises promises you know!

One the other hand.... they may shut the whole "non lucrative" spotlight thing down altogether due to thier small company being spread so thin and just stick with what they do best?

There is also the consideration that making spotlights and selling them while supplying parts to other companies making spotlights could be a conflict of interest.
Those who would want to buy parts would be a buyer and a competitor all at the same time!

I do appreciate the attitude that says, "if we can't do it perfect, we don't want to do it at all".

Until they decide, I suppose all we can do is cheer them on in hopes they will continued the good thing they have started.

With their aviation background, thier main forte seems to be able to make a hand held light that performs like you ripped it off a plane "when you turn it on".
I don't see any other companies in this price range dareing to deal with the heat with these types of wattages (50 & 75) and supply a decent battery and case to go along except Xevision.

If you want to spend over 2000.00, you can look at the 75W Maxabeam.
Although a beast of a light and a legend in its time, you are dealing with older technology.. they haven't even upgraded thier batteries from NiCad yet?
I think they were "so far" ahead they didn't have any competition till now...
competition is a good thing.. it forces upgrades!

I like the idea of having an aircraft quality light in my hand!


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## larryk (Oct 9, 2006)

The MaxaBeam is a totally different type of spotlight, it uses a short arc bulb that turns on instantly, similar to a LED light, it even has a strobe function. Although it is rated at 75 watts, a 35 watt HID spotlight will blow it away as far as lumen output, even a 24 watt HID light will output more lumens. It's forte is being able to concentrate their lumens to an extremely tight focus that will throw as far as you can see. If you put it in flood mode it is not very impressive. They have been very slow to upgrade there battery options, but you can now order NimH and Li-Ion battery packs. The original Maxabeam used a SLA battery pack.


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## windstrings (Oct 9, 2006)

Seems I remember reading about short Arc.... seems it makes alot of heat or something?
I'm too lazy to go dig, but thanks for that info.. I was unaware of its technology.. I assumed it was really really bright they way folks talked, but maybe not.
I would sure hate to buy one of those on ebay for 450.00 and then add 800.00 for a LiIon battery pack and charger just to find all that out after the fact!

Instant on is really nice... once the HID's are warmed up, they do a pretty good job of being instant on if you don't let them cool for too long, but I also understand thats hard on some systems to be turning then on and off frequently without a rest?

Of course its also fun to turn on an HID and watch folks go "whoa!" and then watch them as it gets even brighter!

-------
Ok..I lied.. I did just a little digging! https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/126758 post#3
Good reading:



> The BB will destroy the MB in Total output but it's highly unlikely it would come anywhere near the throwing capability of the MB.





> Indeed Maxabeam is more powerfull as it comes to throw: Xenon short arc (is not HID!) has much higher surface brightness, but is much less efficient!
> 
> The barn burner puts out a +8000 lumens at 75 watts I beleve. The short arc lamp used in MB is rated at 1000 lumens at 75 watts !


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## XeRay (Oct 9, 2006)

windstrings said:


> Presently they keep getting hanged up on production due to some of the parts not being thier own... ie: bulbs etc.


 
Never had a problem keeping any of our bulbs in stock. We currently have about 2,000 of them instock. Problems have really only been the DC-DC charger which was finally resolved (not shipped yet) and some issues with the charge PCB for a couple of people. I don't like NOT being in control of the whole package.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 9, 2006)

Dan, how many of the Philips DL-50 bulbs do you have (if you prefer to keep that private, that fine...just curious since they never show up on EBay or a google search)?

I'm keeping my fingers crossed on our 50W GB upgrade to the Barn Burner getting closer to reality.


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## FILA BRAZILIA (Oct 10, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> Dan, how many of the Philips DL-50 bulbs do you have (if you prefer to keep that private, that fine...just curious since they never show up on EBay or a google search)?
> 
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed on our 50W GB upgrade to the Barn Burner getting closer to reality.


 
LexLuthor, there is a man from Australia (fellow CPFer), he sells some DL50 bulbs, here
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=135195 Fila


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## Lips (Oct 10, 2006)

FILA BRAZILIA said:


> LexLuthor, there is a man from Australia (fellow CPFer), he sells some DL50 bulbs, here
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=135195 Fila




Same guy is selling them on EBAY for $52 a piece if you buy two: free shipping... I just bought two for my new-to-me used Xeray... 


windstrings - congratulations on your new purchase. Having just acquired a Xeray I hate to hear they are considering dropping the spotlight line. One thing to consider though is repeating everything you hear will guarantee you that next time you will hear less and less. For you and me let's hope they stick with it... :thumbsup: 


.


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## XeRay (Oct 10, 2006)

FILA BRAZILIA said:


> LexLuthor, there is a man from Australia (fellow CPFer), he sells some DL50 bulbs, here
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=135195 Fila


 
That is NOT the same bulb we use. That is the "newer" DL50 which has a much smaller arc chamber (like std. D2S) and cannot handle being run at 75W for the BB. Look at the photos on ebay, you will see the obvious differences compared to the bulb we use on the BB.


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## FILA BRAZILIA (Oct 10, 2006)

OK, XeRay  Thanks for the information.
BTW, do you think it is possible that you will offer the XeVision BB in a GB? 
If you do, count me in!  Fila




XeRay said:


> That is NOT the same bulb we use. That is the "newer" DL50 which has a much smaller arc chamber (like std. D2S) and cannot handle being run at 75W for the BB. Look at the photos on ebay, you will see the obvious differences compared to the bulb we use on the BB.


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## windstrings (Oct 10, 2006)

Well here is the ebay pic..
The only other pic I know about of the older DL-50 is here.

I can't see to much other than the base is abviously different.. the GE is blocking the best view of the DL, but I'm sure he's right... I just want to be able to recognize the differences.


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## windstrings (Oct 10, 2006)

Lips said:


> For you and me let's hope they stick with it... :thumbsup:
> .



Well, I totally agree with any decisions they really feel they have to make. Trying to do too many things at once makes it where you do nothing efficient.
The "Jack of all trades, master of none thing".

Although I don't know whats on the horizon with these other companies, I really think they have an edge to a market that people will want.
Making a light as bright as the BB thats light and easy to carry, with a good recharge system is something every Firefighter, Police, Coast Guard, Navy, Military, and remote emergency services... of course true light junkies would want.

With my limited vision, I see a tremendous market out there.
No one else is making a light like this.. they have an edge on the market if they can produce it.

And your're right, I'm sure I said too much... sometimes information keeps people from assuming the worst and brings understanding if they are trying to deal or negotiate with them.
I'm always trying to be tooo helpful.


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## XeRay (Oct 10, 2006)

windstrings said:


> Well here is the ebay pic..
> The only other pic I know about of the older DL-50 is here.
> 
> I can't see to much other than the base is abviously different.. the GE is blocking the best view of the DL, but I'm sure he's right... I just want to be able to recognize the differences.


 
That is not a DL-50 that is a GE D2S. You will soon know (see) what we supply with a BB since you bought one for your 50 watt XeRay. The difference will be quite obvious to you when you see it.


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## XeRay (Oct 10, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> Dan, how many of the Philips DL-50 bulbs do you have (if you prefer to keep that private, that fine...just curious since they never show up on EBay or a google search)?
> 
> I'm keeping my fingers crossed on our 50W GB upgrade to the Barn Burner getting closer to reality.


 
After we get the DC-DC adapters done and out we will be ready for the upgrade project. We will offer it only once.

We have 30 or so of that bulb instock. We will bring in another large quantity shortly.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 10, 2006)

FILA BRAZILIA said:


> LexLuthor, there is a man from Australia (fellow CPFer), he sells some DL50 bulbs, here
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=135195 Fila



Thanks, but I prefer dealing with Dan, and the XeRay company.


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## FILA BRAZILIA (Oct 10, 2006)

I agree with you on that one, LexLuthor  





LuxLuthor said:


> Thanks, but I prefer dealing with Dan, and the XeRay company.


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## FILA BRAZILIA (Oct 10, 2006)

windstrings;

I am interested in the XeVision BB version.
Could you tell us how this works (I understand that you have 1 BB in order)?
You receive the 50W version first, and later, the upgrade-kit will be delivered, right? So you must do the upgrade work yourself?
I can`t see the BB version on their website www.xevision.com. I suppose I have to mail xevision to order the BB. 
Can I ask you, windstrings, how much you paid for the BB? Fila


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## windstrings (Oct 10, 2006)

FILA BRAZILIA said:


> windstrings;
> 
> I am interested in the XeVision BB version.
> Could you tell us how this works (I understand that you have 1 BB in order)?
> ...



I don't have a BB.. just the 50W on order.


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## karlthev (Oct 17, 2006)

Well, I'm sorta known on CPF on the LED side but certainly not the HID side!! Is there to be a group buy considered? I have merely read some but certainly not a heckuva lot on the 35 and 50 XeVision and just spoke (rather briefly I might add!) with Dan a few minutes ago. I told him I needed to read a bit...Nice light of highest quality it seems! "Barn Burner"???? Group buys??


Karl


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## mikebrooke (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm definitely in for a 75 watter!


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## windstrings (Oct 25, 2006)

The only way I see to get a BB is the buy the 50 watter and upgrade when the one time offer is presented by Dan. 

Post # 40


> After we get the DC-DC adapters done and out we will be ready for the upgrade project. We will offer it only once.



Unless your willing to take your chances that they will be offered "after" the upgrade project, this may be your only window.

Only Dan can say if they will ever be offered again after that, but at this point, it doesn't look too good.

Don't say I didn't warn you if you forever lose your chances to get a BB from Xevison.


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 25, 2006)

Yeah, the more I think about it...after just buying an additional Barn Burner from Chris Dallas, I think it would be smart to get the upgrade parts for the 50W GB one I have also.


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## LED61 (Oct 25, 2006)

Windstrings, I've tried to pm you several times but no go I don't know why. Thanks though and enjoy!!


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## windstrings (Oct 25, 2006)

LED61 said:


> Windstrings, I've tried to pm you several times but no go I don't know why. Thanks though and enjoy!!



Humm.. sorry... I get them from others.. I wonder whats up?


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## TeflonBubba (Nov 6, 2006)

Interested in BB.... any chance there's a second chance? Thanks


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## karlthev (Nov 7, 2006)

I had expressed interest earlier--this is one great light--but, is there a "group buy" in progress here or....??? And, what is the final cost....???


Karl


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## BVH (Nov 7, 2006)

No GB that I know of. The option, at one time, was to buy the 50 watt with the DL50 installed and then buy the upgrade kit (ballast) when Dan released them. I'm not sure if the offer is available to any of us late-comers? I don't remember the CPF cost of the 50 Watt?

Dan?

Seeing the BB in person and in action again has renewed my interest in getting one.


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## windstrings (Nov 7, 2006)

BVH said:


> I'm not sure if the offer is available to any of us late-comers? I don't remember the CPF cost of the 50 Watt?
> 
> Dan?
> 
> Seeing the BB in person and in action again has renewed my interest in getting one.



100.00 CPF discount and then add about 70.00 bucks for the DL-50 bulb unless Dan has changed the price.

So that puts it at about 865.00 total. The kit will be in the 325 - 350 range "unless that different now too" and that gives you a 75W ballast and another DL-50 bulb. I"m sure if you don't want the bulb, you wouldn't have to pay for it.
I just hate to have that much invested in a light and not be able to find another bulb years later if something happened.


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## senecaripple (Nov 7, 2006)

why was this thread posted if there was never an intention for this groupbuy? what exactly was the reason for this "feeler"?


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## lasercrazy (Nov 7, 2006)

Dan never said there was a GB that was going to happen, I don't know why a feeler was even posted.


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## windstrings (Nov 7, 2006)

lasercrazy said:


> Dan never said there was a GB that was going to happen, I don't know why a feeler was even posted.



I think it all started with a phone call to Dan.. Dan made no promises at all, but since Dan didn't say "not to do the feeler" the author started one in hopes it would stir enough interest in hopes Dan would see it was a worthy effort.

I did warn several times it was a slim venture.

During the initial post until now, I spoke with Dan maybe 3 times and I remember he is a bit nervous about just anybody using the BB for liablity reasons.

CPF folks are more knowledgable "usually" and can handle to technicals of changing batteries.. initial hookup, bulb changes etc.. but not every layperson seems to be able to pull that off without doing something bass ackwards!

No one else is doing a light of this caliber because of heat issues. Although Dan is willing to warrant up to 60 minutes continuous runtime, there are still many issues of liablity that can some up with a light of this power and heat.

After reading what the Short arcs do and the heat they produce, I'm not sure it would be any worse than owning one of those?

I keep hearing rumous of razorlite coming out with 105 watter, we'll see if thats a pipe dream and if it has klingon warship heatfins or if you have to keep your spray bottle water mister handy or not! :laughing:
The fact that I haven't heard any more, tells me they may be having troubles.
If you ever do get that much power, then you have to have an even bigger battery or better technology to have decent runtimes, you will most likely have extra weight also.
They already have questionable runtimes even with thier lower watts.

The Xeray seems to have everyone else beat in the battery department... except that a change is a tad cumbersome to pull off in a hurry.

At one time Dan was going to offer an even bigger battery to add another 30 mins runtime for the BB that was going to be produced until there was realization that the BB would most likely not be able to handle the heat for 90 minutes, so that was bagged.

I personally would love to have the extended battery for my 50Watter, but I think Dan realizes people would use it with the BB and void the warranty, or at best it would become a nightmare figuring out what was a real warranty issue verses abuse.

He has also stated that the people who bought the 50Watters would be first in line to get thier opportunity to purchase the upgrade which includes the 75 watt ballast.

That offer has not yet happened.

So I can only conclude that if a GB is possible, no one would be able to get thiers until "after" the other folks got their upgrade first.

I can also only assume the parts are not yet available, else the 50W owners would have already been offered the deal.

And lastly, I also assume and conclude "all of which can be wrong and only Dan can say the real deal" that if a BB GB was offered at this time, it may be a bit premature and Dan would only be bombarded with questions, phone calls and emails.

GB's are tremedous work. As as stated before, its easy for all the time and attention to go to the folks "us" that are getting the product for the cheapest and leave no or little time for regular customers who are paying full price on a daily basis off the CPF grid as well as other products in aviation.

More conjecture:
If there is only so much time and no person employed just to handle the GB, Dan may feel he would be overwhelmed to do a GB and his regular responsibilties too.

All of my statements are pure conjecture..... 
Only Dan knows what is practicle and what he is willing to do at this time.

I have never heard him say he will "not" do a GB, but usually GB's are mean't to introduce a new product without a track record to stir interest and excitement. In that scenario, people have to take a greater risk to buy without reviews availiable.

In this case... we would all be blessed if he even offers it at all at regular price.. let alone a GB price.

The BB has already developed quite a reputation up to this point and nothing can touch it. I think the regular price at one time was going to be set at about 1200.00

Only Dan knows if he will have mercy on us and actually give a GB.... but like I said before.... don't hold your breath.


I decided not to take any chances and purchased the 50W with the DL-50 bulb. Dan did promise a upgrade would be available, he never promised a BB GB or even that it would be for sale... I'm not taking any chances!

The price is really not much different... if you buy a 50Watter now... and you get your 100.00 cpf discount, thats 795.00 plus about 70.00 more for the DL-50 bulb... now your up to 865.00.
Even if the kit cost 350, that would be a total of 1215.00.. still cheaper than buying it at regular price and you have an extra bulb to boot because the kit comes with a bulb.

LIke I said.. I'm not taking any chances...
To each his own.... Every man for himself!!!! :touche:


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## windstrings (Nov 7, 2006)

deleted.....Server was too busy and caused a double post.


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## LED61 (Nov 7, 2006)

I don't see a reason to be annoyed with this feeler. It is just that--a feeler. One that took long time to get rolling from the original post until the virtues of the light became more evident in CPF. It is stated very clearly at the beginning of the thread that Dan made no promises at all. But from the moment he agreed to the feeler he probably considered a group buy. A group buy is not in progress, and I myself don't know if there will be one, as I stated at the beginning of the thread. But at least there is a chance.

BTW, the feeler was for the XeRay 50, not the barn burner. We would all be very very lucky if this product was offered in GB again for the reasons Windstrings has outlined.


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 8, 2006)

windstrings said:


> ...a pipe dream and if it has *clingon *warship heatfins...



That post was entirely too long, but one thing immediately jumped out of the jumble of words.

It's KLINGON....dude...with a "K"

Cling is what Saran Wrap does with salad bowls. Get with the program.


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## windstrings (Nov 8, 2006)

LuxLuthor said:


> That post was entirely too long, but one thing immediately jumped out of the jumble of words.
> 
> It's KLINGON....dude...with a "K"
> 
> Cling is what Saran Wrap does with salad bowls. Get with the program.



Fixed.... 865 + 350 is not 1165 either.. its 1215.00

you missed that mistake?.. what am I paying you for?


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## LuxLuthor (Nov 8, 2006)

Oh there were many other mistakes, typos, math errors...but of course the only one that mattered was a Star Trek error. 

:lolsign:


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## windstrings (Nov 8, 2006)

n'


LuxLuthor said:


> Oh there were many other mistakes, typos, math errors...but of course the only one that mattered was a Star Trek error.
> 
> :lolsign:



Don't even go there about my grammar and typos... we may have to hire someone else too to keep up with that!


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## toolboy (Nov 17, 2006)

If Dan promises to only make them once more, I'd take 10, no joke. Top that.


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## windstrings (Nov 17, 2006)

Hey.... big spender!... got me beat!


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## windstrings (Jan 29, 2007)

Deleted....


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2007)

The BB GB has nothing whatsoever to do with the 50W upgrade. As such, if Dan wants to use an old thread to do a new GB upgrade (which seems stupid to me), then this is the correct thread where the promise was made (post #64 on page 3) for 50W buyers to get the BB upgrade with names listed on page 2; Post #55. Thank God Windy has saved the day for all those not able to read the forums on their own.


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## windstrings (Jan 29, 2007)

Deleted....


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2007)

As I told you in my 6 PM's to you on this subject, I asked Dan if he wanted help notifying the 50W GB participants, and he said he did not want or need me to do that. So your calling him and putting him "on the spot" and then resurrecting 4 threads with the same incorrect thread link was way over the top.

The people who bought the 50W light are adults. If they want to upgrade to the BB, they should be following the Spotlight and GB sections of the forum, at least once a month.

There is no need to check it every day as you think is critical. Once the GB Upgrade which has been talked about for 2 months is finally posted, those eligible will have another 10-14 days to see it and get the upgrade. While Dan could have bumped his Nov 30th thread, he made a new one specific to the upgrade which made perfect sense.

I don't object to you helping people out, but I made it perfectly clear what Dan's intentions were in my 6 PM's to you, with your question after question and your feeling slighted, and yet you still had to make your phone call, and then do the same post in 4 separate threads....despite you not even being in the 50W GB. 

If you feel the need to be the saviour of all eligible upgraders, why not do it as BVH did....with PM's to them linking one of these threads? It worked for BVH to you. That's my whole point...and you know the other issues about this light's safety, and the upgrade only belonging to those who actually purchased a 50W XeRay that I told you about in the PM.

Anyway, sorry to crap in your threads Dan. I did my best to follow your wishes and intentions.


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## windstrings (Jan 29, 2007)

Deleted....


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2007)

I was trying to follow Dan's very clear intentions in his PM to me, which I shared with you over and over. You on the other hand, had to make sure your own personal agenda and crusade was put forward as the most important issue. I'm sure Dan is thrilled....and I'm sure he will jump at the chance for more GB's on good old CPF's. Nice job dude, you got your way!


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## LED61 (Jan 29, 2007)

Windy, Thanks for the heads up and trying to be helpful.


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## windstrings (Jan 29, 2007)

Deleted....


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 29, 2007)

I'll also remove this one post as a quid pro quo after seeing Windy deleting his plethora of posts.


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## windstrings (Jan 29, 2007)

Deleted....


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## windstrings (Jan 30, 2007)

Deleted....


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## LED61 (Jan 30, 2007)

Let it rest Windy, I think this whole thing was overblown out of proportion in the first place. I haven't seen Dan come into the thread complaining in any way and he's been online.

And just to set things straight, this is my thread that I initiated a while back with Dan's full consent.


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## windstrings (Jan 31, 2007)

Sounds like I'm the only one who was thrown off course, so I removed all the other posts... I guess everyone that needs to know already knows.
Sorry about the confusion....


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