# Powertools, Man



## ElectronGuru (Oct 7, 2012)

Most powertool threads revolve around battery harvesting, so heres one about the tools themselves.

I grew up using metal bodied drills. One speed, forward only, no brake, a button to keep the trigger engaged, and a bowl full of chuck keys. When I was old enough to start investing in my own power tools, I picked out a drill with all the modern conveniences. Variable speed trigger, brakes to stop the drill when released, 2 speed transmission, keyless chuck, reverse, 7 setting clutch, and most of all, batteries. At the risk of overstating things, I waited as long as I could, then bought the best I could (dewalt 14.4).

Fast forward 20 years, the drill etc are still going strong. Save new batteries and one new motor, the entire set is fully functional, with another 10 years in it. Including the breaking of hundreds of Z41 tailcaps a year (custom bit). But looking around at the current power tool market, my trusty companion is simply obsolete. Really really obsolete. Impact drive, hammer drill, extra tranny speed, 15 extra clutch settings, lithium ion batteries, brushless motors, built in LEDs, instant chuck. 

Half the size/weight at twice the power. Techno-lust aside, it simply isn't practical _not_ to upgrade.


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## orbital (Oct 8, 2012)

+ 

I'm not sure if I need _anothe_r cup of coffee after reading your OP,, or _one less_??

..anyway, I still like corded stuff, call me old fashion.
My heavy drill is a corded Dewalt DWD110K (for larger duties only)

my cordless one is weak,, and that's exactly what I want in it.


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## TedTheLed (Oct 8, 2012)

yeah you dont mention weight or foot pounds. I like my old plug in 3 pound makita impact drivers for EVERYTHING.


Powerful efficient impacting 88.5 ft.lbs. (1,062 in.lbs.)
True variable speed (0-3,200 RPM) for controlled fastening.
Compact design and weighs only 2.9 lbs.
Externally accessible brushes for easy serviceability and dual ball bearings for longer tool life.
Rubberized pistol grip for more comfort, control and reduced operator fatigue.

I also have a the model under/before this one, I dont have the model number but it is the exact same only without the metal hang clip thing, slightly less powerful which is handy for smaller screws and bits..


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## Up All Night (Oct 8, 2012)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> I'm not sure if I need _anothe_r cup of coffee after reading your OP,, or _one less_??
> 
> ...



So, that's DC for untethered fun and AC to get it done?.............That's been my experience!


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 8, 2012)

TedTheLed said:


> yeah you dont mention weight or foot pounds. I like my old plug in 3 pound makita impact drivers for EVERYTHING.
> 
> Powerful efficient impacting 88.5 ft.lbs. (1,062 in.lbs.)
> True variable speed (0-3,200 RPM) for controlled fastening.
> Compact design and weighs only 2.9 lbs.



That's part of my shock/excitement. The latest 18/20v cordless are 1500 in/lb, 3300rpm (with 3 speed/scale trigger for even more control), 5in long, 3 lbs with battery and enough run time for hundreds of screws. It's nuts!


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 8, 2012)

Yep, back when I was doing commercial electric rough in 5 years ago I used 18v nicad Bosch gear, best stuff I could get at the time. A new 18v lithium ion equivalent feels like it's half the weight, a feather almost compared to the older nicad stuff, and the torque/RPM values aren't sacrificed for it. The newest brushless stuff is good for either 50% more runtime or more power, it's really impressive. I use a 12v, 960 in/lb bosch PS41 impact for diy projects around the house, and it's really impressive for its size and battery. What's more impressive is the only thing bigger on the new 18v ones is the battery, and the weight difference is moot holding both in your hands. The 18v has about 1400 inch lbs and way more runtime. I like my little mini-impact driver though, it's easy to control and just looks so damn adorable, i've not found it wanting for power with any reasonable fastener either.


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## 880arm (Oct 8, 2012)

My first "real" cordless was an 18V DeWalt that I purchased around 15 years ago and I (over)worked it nearly to death doing electrical work running nearly any type of auger bit or hole saw you can imagine. Since that time I have accumulated over a dozen or so of their 18V (along with a few 14.4's) tools so I'm pretty heavily invested in the "old" technology. I don't do electrical work any more so there's no chance I'm going to wear any of them out but the batteries may become a concern someday. However, I think they will continue to support the older style for a while.

Having said that, I have been thinking about getting a smaller and lighter 12V drill to bridge the gap between my 7.2V cordless screwdriver and the 18V drills.

On a related note, how did we ever survive before cordless drills and screwdrivers?


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 8, 2012)

Hand crank drills  More cordless than cordless.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 8, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> I like my little mini-impact driver though, it's easy to control and just looks so damn adorable, i've not found it wanting for power with any reasonable fastener either.





880arm said:


> Having said that, I have been thinking about getting a smaller and lighter 12V drill to bridge the gap between my 7.2V cordless screwdriver and the 18V drills.



The new 12v lithiums have nearly the power of NiCad 18's, in some cases more (drill -> impact). For light to medium jobs, its all that you need. By the old scales, the DCS310 (for example) shouldn't even be possible.




880arm said:


> On a related note, how did we ever survive before cordless drills and screwdrivers?



We used a boatload of nails


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## orbital (Oct 8, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> Hand crank drills  More cordless than cordless.



+

Remember these,,,







put the ncr18650a next to it to show it's mine:lolsign:


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## 880arm (Oct 8, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> We used a boatload of nails



Ain't that the truth. Tasks like hanging drywall or building a deck were drastically different then.

When I was 17 years old (way back in the 80's) I can remember when my dad bought a Black & Decker cordless drill. I think it was a 4.8V model and had virtually no power but I loved using it for installing car stereos and other small tasks like that.


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## 880arm (Oct 8, 2012)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Remember these,,,
> 
> ...



Orbital thanks for posting that. The Yankee Screwdriver was exactly what I was thinking of when I posed that question earlier. Although it's not the same, I still have a Klein "spinner" screwdriver that I use to this day.


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## jabe1 (Oct 8, 2012)

My Yankee screwdriver still sees some usage, along with a nice old draw knife, and some block planes.

Last year I got an 18v Milwaulkee lithium set, and it blows away my 10yr old Porter Cable!


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## HighlanderNorth (Oct 9, 2012)

I'm not even a carpenter, but I bought my 1st home in 2003, and I already had a pro grade 14.4v Porter cable cordless drill, so I started buying LOTS of power tools for my home, and for winter work jobs indoors. I learned not to buy cheaper homeowner grade tools most of the time, so I have the following:

1. Ridgid 18V Ni Cad hammer drill/driver(572 in/lbs) from late 2003
2. Ridgid 18v Ni cad circular saw(came with above tool^)
3. Ridgid 14.4v Ni Cad impact driver(850in/lbs) Rarely ever use it!
4. Ridgid plug in Jigsaw
5. Ridgid plug in orbital sander
6. Milwaukee plug in Sawzall
7. Ryobi plug in sander/polisher(hardly use)
8. Porter cable plug in detail sander(hardly use)
9. Ridgid plug in laminate cutter(hardly use)
10. Makita angle grinder
11. Porter Cable 14.4v cordless driver/drill(gave to Mom)
12. Porter Cable Air compressor
13. Porter Cable pro grade pneumatic Brad nailer(hardly use)
14. Porter Cable pro grade pneumatic Finish nailer(hardly use)
15. Ridgid magnesium 3 1/2" pneumatic Framing nailer(hardly use)
16. Ridgid pneumatic Narrow crown stapler(hardly use)


I am forgetting something, but I cant figure out what it is. Anyway, I like the newer Li Ion cordless tools, especially the Milwaukee drills with their brushless design, and usually superior torque, plus they are lighter than ever, smaller too, yet have like 700 in/lbs torque. Thats great for a cordless drill. I also want one of the Fein multimaster type tools that cuts, sands, etc. I tried one of them out, and it pretty nice. It does stuff that no other tool can. I also want a nice router, as I thought my laminate cutter might work as a light router, but it doesnt have the power(total waste of money)


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## TedTheLed (Oct 9, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> That's part of my shock/excitement. The latest 18/20v cordless are 1500 in/lb, 3300rpm (with 3 speed/scale trigger for even more control), 5in long, 3 lbs with battery and enough run time for hundreds of screws. It's nuts!



start naming names! I didnt think they were that light either ie. 3 lbs or under.. Meanwhile Ill go check out Makitas latest battery powered offerings...


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 9, 2012)

All the big players really, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita, etc. Really the biggest factor is how much you like each tool's ergonomics and how invested you are in a battery system. All the ones over 1400 inch lbs I've seen are just over 3 pounds, but the 1200 and under ones don't even hit 3 with the battery. The 12v tools are only 2 pounds or so, but the new 18's with the slim/lightweight battery packs are only a pound heavier and actually balance better. 

http://www.makita.com/en-us/Modules/Tools/ToolDetails.aspx?ID=549992

http://www.makita.com/en-us/Modules/Tools/ToolDetails.aspx?ID=24056

and my cute little 12v. Handy little thing. http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductDetail.aspx?pid=PS41-2A#specs


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## HighlanderNorth (Oct 9, 2012)

TedTheLed said:


> start naming names! I didnt think they were that light either ie. 3 lbs or under.. Meanwhile Ill go check out Makitas latest battery powered offerings...



Check out the Milwaukee cordless offerings now, they are still the only brand that offers brushless motors I believe, and they are about the most powerful as far as torque is concerned as well. Milwaukee has been around a LONG time, and they make fantastic tools.


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## TedTheLed (Oct 9, 2012)

ok, so far got this Makita, comes closest to electrons description; I use only impact drivers, dewalt has a much more expensive one, but is only a driver, and not as powerful! 

Till I check out the Milwaukee, Im gettin this one 


Makita LXDT04CW 18-Volt Compact Lithium-Ion Cordless Impact Driver Kit
Product Features
Makita-built 4-pole motor delivers 1,420 inlbs of Max Torque
Compact design at only 5-7/16-Inch long and weighs only 2.8 lbs for reduced operator fatigue
Variable speed design (0-2,300 RPM & 0-3,200 IPM) covers a wide range of fastening applications
Convenient 1/4-Inch hex one-touch chuck for quick bit changes.
Built-in L.E.D. light with afterglow illuminates the work area
$170 at amazon , free ship.


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 10, 2012)

Try one with an impact rated spade bit sometime, it'll surprise you. Just don't try a self feeding spade, they don't work as well as the old style ones with impact drivers. I've used cheap junk hex shaft spades with mine and it's really fast, and on the rare occasion you make the bit bind the impact will engage and prevent kickback and get the bit spinning again.


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## RBR (Oct 10, 2012)

.....


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## orbital (Oct 10, 2012)

+

Now I'm all fired up on the _*Milwaukee *_*FUEL* Series,,,,,damn


_hmm, you can never have too many tools!_


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## TedTheLed (Oct 10, 2012)

why? its bigger and with 
less power than the smaller lighter ones above..


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 10, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> All the big players really, Bosch, Dewalt, Milwaukee, Makita, etc. Really the biggest factor is how much you like each tool's ergonomics and how invested you are in a battery system.



Yeah, I can't get past the grip feel on the DeWalts.

1st impression, the big brands have their emphases like so:*
Mikita* - 1st with the new tech
*Milwaukee* - Most variations/models
*DeWalt* - Long research/development
*Bosch* - ?​

There are also smaller brands like *Hilti* that I'm still figuring out.


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## skyfire (Oct 11, 2012)

im almost too embarrassed to say but im still using a 9.6v makita! the batteries cant even hold a charge anymore. and will self discharge in a day. LoL
luckily, ive only needed it for those occasional small jobs, and projects. ive been meaning to great a new drill forever now, but have never put in the research.
like EG did, i going to go for the latest and greatest. 9.6v on bad batteries literally was not cutting it. heheh

i do need a belt sander for a house painting side job. maybe there will be a nice powertool set for sale at home depot...


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 11, 2012)

HighlanderNorth said:


> they are still the only brand that offers brushless motors I believe



I believe the sequence went like: makita -> milwaukee -> dewalt

Basically, makita comes out with some hot new feature on a few things, milwaukee pushes it to a whole new line of new tools, and then dewalt adds it to a few select tools. Ie, makita are the innovators, and milwaukee the risk takers (go big or go home). Then dewalt and bosch seem to pick and choose from there.




orbital said:


> Now I'm all fired up on the _*Milwaukee *_*FUEL* Series,,,,,damn



The marketing from the big companies seems to create more confusion than it solves. Milwaukee got big into lithiums, changing from V to M on the lines/batteries, and now uses FUEL to mean brushless. DeWalt is more clear with BL on the motors, but less so with batteries. The latest slide in 18's are called 20's, apparently to differentiate from 18, but the new 10.8's are called 12's for the same reason?




skyfire said:


> 9.6v on bad batteries literally was not cutting it.



The advent of lithium has made the new 10/12's competitive with older 14/18's. You should have a grand time upgrading with any of the brands.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 11, 2012)

Impact drivers have gotten so powerful that screws are no longer able to keep up, literally shearing off under the strain. Like LEDs with medium and low modes, the latest models from the big three now include power settings. Here's a nice review showing the difference:


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 11, 2012)

And just think that's a solid 1/4 inch hex shaft that just got twisted into two pieces. I've watched videos of how fast the 12v vs 14 and 18 v impacts were, and it seems like the speed/ amount of strain on the fasteners goes up way faster than the maximum torque value might imply. In that sense I'm happy to see brushless is making multi-speed impacts easier to implement, since it's just a command to the motor's ESC and not a mechanical transmission. I'd say 1500 inch lbs is almost too much power for a 1/4 inch bit unless you're only using it for extra speed with those huge decking screws into wood.


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## HighlanderNorth (Oct 11, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> And just think that's a solid 1/4 inch hex shaft that just got twisted into two pieces. I've watched videos of how fast the 12v vs 14 and 18 v impacts were, and it seems like the speed/ amount of strain on the fasteners goes up way faster than the maximum torque value might imply. In that sense I'm happy to see brushless is making multi-speed impacts easier to implement, since it's just a command to the motor's ESC and not a mechanical transmission. I'd say 1500 inch lbs is almost too much power for a 1/4 inch bit unless you're only using it for extra speed with those huge decking screws into wood.



Yep.

About 5 years ago I bought a Ni Cad 14.4 volt Ridgid impact driver with around 850 in/lbs, and its been powerful enough to do anything I've needed it to do so far. Keep in mind, through the gear ratios, these impact drivers are significantly more powerful than the cordless drill/drivers. Today's 18-20 volt drills run around 550-700 in/lbs. My 9 year old Ridgid Ni Cad 18v hammer drill/driver is listed at about 570in/lbs ot torque, and thats been powerful enough to drill through concrete with fairly large masonry bits, and it been powerful enough that I could install aluminum or steel threaded gutter spikes into every gutter on many client's homes, usually without having to switch batteries! Its never been stifled by any bit or nut I've thrown at it.

So, do we really need 1500 in/lbs? If you need that much torque, you are likely working with very large nuts and bolts, so much so that you probably wont be able to take advantage of the full twisting power without breaking your wrist with one of these little impact drivers! Or bending/breaking the driver's shaft.


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 11, 2012)

Ahh, that's one of the nice things about Impacts, there's little to no torque feedback to the user, only a mild pulsing sensation at most. I get way less wrist torquing than I do from a little 80 inch/lb pocket screwdriver, and compared to a 600 in/lb 18v hammerdrill it's less than pulling the trigger with an empty chuck.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 11, 2012)

HighlanderNorth said:


> So, do we really need 1500 in/lbs? If you need that much torque, you are likely working with very large nuts and bolts, so much so that you probably wont be able to take advantage of the full twisting power without breaking your wrist with one of these little impact drivers!



That's supposed to be one of the pluses of impacts. Torque is charged into a spring and then released against the bit without twisting against your hand.

Breaking the lock-tight on so many tailcaps has gotten painful, so this is the first feature I jumped at. Can't wait to see if it really works.


Here's a video that shows the difference (motor vs motor+impact). Pay particular attention to his grip:


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## kaichu dento (Oct 11, 2012)

orbital said:


> Remember these,,,


Wow - nostalgic to say the least, but it still looks pretty modern compared to the one of my dad's that I used to use all the time!



ElectronGuru said:


> The new 12v lithiums have nearly the power of NiCad 18's, in some cases more (drill -> impact). For light to medium jobs, its all that you need.





HighlanderNorth said:


> Check out the Milwaukee cordless offerings now, they are still the only brand that offers brushless motors I believe, and they are about the most powerful as far as torque is concerned as well. Milwaukee has been around a LONG time, and they make fantastic tools.


I've been using the Milwaukee M12 lineup for a couple years now and it was the torque that convinced me that they hadn't gone over to making toys for the homeowner. Great torque, smooth keyless chuck that doesn't tear up your hand and built in reserve meter so you can quickly determine whether or not to recharge. 

Two tools I prefer to have a cord though are my Sawzall and circular - DeWalt DWS 535.


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## TedTheLed (Oct 11, 2012)

nah, you just back off on the variable speed, that lessens the impact, you dont need to twist nuthin off..you dont have to go fast..just take it easy..

added: just saw the video above..heh, I know whats happening there: the screw got hot from the first in and out! On the third insertion it started melting the resins in the wood, then when it stopped, the resins started to cool, and it was heck to withdraw..
..also note the short length of actual thread in the vid. try 6 inches of threaded screw in and out like that, it gets hot -- but not if you go slowly.

(thats what she said)


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## HighlanderNorth (Oct 11, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> Ahh, that's one of the nice things about Impacts, there's little to no torque feedback to the user, only a mild pulsing sensation at most. I get way less wrist torquing than I do from a little 80 inch/lb pocket screwdriver, and compared to a 600 in/lb 18v hammerdrill it's less than pulling the trigger with an empty chuck.



Even at 1500in/lbs it doesnt twist your wrist? I havent used mine to try and loosen any really rusted or large bolts, so I havent experienced any any frozen nuts or bolts. I use my ratchet and sockets for bigger stuff. But when I have used my lower powered drill/driver to loosen some bolts and when I catch a tight one, the drill twists my wrist around if I dont have the clutch set up properly.


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 11, 2012)

No, the impact mechanism takes care of that. It works essentially the same way an air impact wrench does, and those put out in excess of 6000 inch pounds, there's a very short impulse and then the tool goes slack, and repeats that a few thousand times a minute. there's never any constant torque on your wrist, just some vibration, which is mostly damped by the tool's weight and some tricks in the impact mechanism's design. I don't want to give the idea that it's superior to a drill in every way, but when it comes to high torque, no-pilothole fastening it's a much kinder tool to use for your arm. This video with a milwaukee impact driver vs a top of the line drill/driver (festool is high $$$ stuff) should illustrate the difference better than I can explain it in words. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGzSu5jgmPQ&feature=relmfu edit: and I see this is the same video that EG posted on the previous page, didn't see him edit that one.


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## kaichu dento (Oct 11, 2012)

TedTheLed said:


> just saw the video above..heh, I know whats happening there: the screw got hot from the first in and out! On the third insertion it started melting the resins in the wood, then when it stopped, the resins started to cool, and it was heck to withdraw..


Nope - you don't know what's happening there because you forgot to watch the whole video and placed your presumptive reasoning in the place of observation and practical logic. 
The impact driver was able to withdraw the screw immediately following the non-impact driver twisting the piece of wood around, not to mention the users wrist. What's happening there is the difference between straight torque and the way an impact driver works.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 11, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> I see this is the same video that EG posted on the previous page, didn't see him edit that one.








Yoda4561 said:


> I don't want to give the idea that it's superior to a drill in every way



Impact drivers are the hot new tool and guys are hoping they will also replace their drill. So far, the big things an impact driver can't do are 1) clutch settings for consistent power limits (perhaps less important with the 3 speed trigger) and 2) a proper bit vice. All the impacts use a 1/4 bit or socket (3/8, 1/2). Its a big reason impacts are shorter, but this also allows bits to move about:




It may not matter for quick and dirty, but its not ideal for fine control; pilot holes and such.


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## HighlanderNorth (Oct 11, 2012)

Is there an impact driver that has the option of shutting off the impacts for use as a drill or driver for smaller screws?


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## DutchR (Oct 11, 2012)

Im a master BMW tech, and if you want something abused for power tools, look no further.



I just recently bought new cordless guns for work....


Snapon's lithium 18volt 1/2" impact. is. amazing. seriously.:huh: it has SCARY power. battery life is crazy.
http://image.snapon.com/international/pdf/ct7850nocompetitive_npa.pdf


I also purchased a Snapon screw gun/driver,

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=740395&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog


and its brother- a little cordless impact that runs off the same batteries.

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=740376&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog



yes- they are expensive. yes they probably aren't needed for normal use that most people need.


BUT- when efficiency equals profits made, tools have no price on the cost of business.


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 11, 2012)

Very long auger bits, large hole saws, mixing thick materials (thinset, large containers of paint, etc), and grinding wheels aren't their forte. In fact don't even bother trying to mix a bigger can of paint than 1 gallon or any amount of thinset, it'll just go into impact mode and you won't get anywhere. Also if you're working in a location that demands quiet, while the impact mechanism on these small drivers isn't that loud of itself, when it gets coupled into a finished wall or sheetmetal during a renovation in a working office space, putting dozens or hundreds of fasteners with an impact while folks are trying to work 20 feet away on spreadsheets and things can be rather aggravating. (on the flipside if it's a situation where the tool gets you out of their hair that much faster it's not such a bad tradeoff.)


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 11, 2012)

HighlanderNorth said:


> Is there an impact driver that has the option of shutting off the impacts for use as a drill or driver for smaller screws?



Yes, there are some newer models that have this function. Makita and Bosch have one, I'm not sure about others. I'm unsure how practical it is exactly since you're always going to have more runout with an impact's hex chuck. With smaller screws feathering the triggers (which are pretty nice these days) is usually a better option. Drilling smaller holes with an impact only usually doesn't cause problems, since a sharp drill bit doesn't provide enough resistance for the impact mode to kick in most of the time. The only issue is finding a high quality hex-shaft drill bit that's long enough. The impact rated ones from dewalt work well though they're rather short, but if you just need a hole in a 2x and don't need it to look perfect a normal impact driver works fine.


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## RBR (Oct 12, 2012)

.....


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## TedTheLed (Oct 12, 2012)

kaichu dento said:


> Nope - you don't know what's happening there because you forgot to watch the whole video and placed your presumptive reasoning in the place of observation and practical logic.
> The impact driver was able to withdraw the screw immediately following the non-impact driver twisting the piece of wood around, not to mention the users wrist. What's happening there is the difference between straight torque and the way an impact driver works.



No, whats happening here is youre alienating me with your obnoxious attitude and insubstantial posts..


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## HighlanderNorth (Oct 12, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> Yes, there are some newer models that have this function. Makita and Bosch have one, I'm not sure about others. I'm unsure how practical it is exactly since you're always going to have more runout with an impact's hex chuck. With smaller screws feathering the triggers (which are pretty nice these days) is usually a better option. Drilling smaller holes with an impact only usually doesn't cause problems, since a sharp drill bit doesn't provide enough resistance for the impact mode to kick in most of the time. The only issue is finding a high quality hex-shaft drill bit that's long enough. The impact rated ones from dewalt work well though they're rather short, but if you just need a hole in a 2x and don't need it to look perfect a normal impact driver works fine.




My desire and concern about the ability to switch off the impacts on an impact driver was more because of experiences I've have when trying to remove or install a small machine screw or any type of screw for that matter, with a slot or Phillips bit with the impact kicking in and causing the bit to constantly slip off the screw. This happened a few times when I didnt have my drill handy and tried to use the impact driver instead. It would be much more practical and convenient to be able to switch it off occasionally.

**To dutch rudder: I wasnt even aware that Snap On made their own brand of drills and carpenter type power tools. I figured they might carry another brand on their trucks, like maybe Hilti or Milwaukee, but didnt know they made their own, or carried their own brand name in these tools.


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## TedTheLed (Oct 12, 2012)

i dont think the impact is the problem with slipping out of slotted and philips screws. I find its more my aim. Its especially difficult driving slotted since any variation from parallel with the screw will result in the bit lifting one side from the slot, and then slipping out, not as critical with philips, but still possible. keep it parallel and keep up constant pressure,(even if with one finger only!  ) and it shouldnt slip, the impact should help, if anything, not hinder...like using a hand impact driver with a hammer to break a stuck nut or screw..
..and I try to use square drive screws, very easy to not slip!

added: I have a 30 year old battery powered AEG drill with built in clutch adjustment, but I just found this; add-on clutch for drivers, stick it in the chuck, new to me! not adjustable apparently, though:


The DEWALT DWHJHLD Impact Clutch Tip Holder has an internal clutch mechanism that delivers 5X longer bit Life. It has a robust shank for use in an Impact Driver or Screw Gun. It has an on and off switch that allows the user to determine torque delivered to work piece. Turn ON to minimize bit stripping, bit breaking and screw stripping, turn OFF to fully utilize the torque of your impact driver or screw gun.
$10 bucks. at the 'zon.


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 12, 2012)

Dutch rudder said:


> Snapon's lithium... yes- they are expensive. yes they probably aren't needed for normal use that most people need. BUT- when efficiency equals profits made, tools have no price on the cost of business.



These look great. As you point out, price is only one part of value. Do we know if they make these themselves?




Yoda4561 said:


> The only issue is finding a high quality hex-shaft drill bit that's long enough. The impact rated ones from dewalt work well though they're rather short, but if you just need a hole in a 2x and don't need it to look perfect a normal impact driver works fine.



Sounds like a plan.




RBR said:


> Hilti is making very reliable, professional machines and became *the* synonym for hammer drills in Germany, Austria and Switzerland.



In the US market, the US brands show everything they have. Makita seems to have only a fraction of their total catalog. Not sure about Bosch. A perspective on the broader EU market would be awesome. It looks like some of the US brands are there, but presumably as also rans.




HighlanderNorth said:


> My desire and concern about the ability to switch off the impacts on an impact driver was more because of experiences I've have when trying to remove or install a small machine screw or any type of screw for that matter, with a slot or Phillips bit with the impact kicking in and causing the bit to constantly slip off the screw.



Screws are the whole point of impacts. The back and forth of the action is supposed to enhance grip on the screw, reducing spin outs and stripping. Maybe its an early model or a weird design?


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## kaichu dento (Oct 12, 2012)

TedTheLed said:


> No, whats happening here is youre alienating me with your obnoxious attitude and insubstantial posts..


If you go read both of our posts again you'll see that you jumped to the wrong conclusion and I simply corrected it.



TedTheLed said:


> The DEWALT DWHJHLD Impact Clutch Tip Holder has an internal clutch mechanism that delivers 5X longer bit Life. It has a robust shank for use in an Impact Driver or Screw Gun. It has an on and off switch that allows the user to determine torque delivered to work piece. Turn ON to minimize bit stripping, bit breaking and screw stripping, turn OFF to fully utilize the torque of your impact driver or screw gun. $10 bucks. at the 'zon.


Looks pretty neat and I suppose if you're already using a bit holder this could take its place while adding to the life of your bits too. Do you already have one of these?


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 12, 2012)

That bit holder as far as I know is mostly for guys doing hvac or other projects with lots of metal on metal fastening, it soaks up just enough of the excess impact when the screw bottoms out to prevent stripping threads accidentally(I'm sure you still can if you try on thinner sheet metal). You'll find with the impact rated bit holders, you'll usually need a pair of pliers to remove the insert bits, they hold TIGHT to make sure they never fall out unintentionally.


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## DutchR (Oct 12, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> These look great. As you point out, price is only one part of value. Do we know if they make these?



The little guns are made in (gulp) china, but the big guns (3/8 and 1/2) are built in the US. my buddy is a snap on dealer, if y'all want a "cash deal" I can get you hooked up on any snap on goodies you want. Just give me a part number or description and ill get you hooked up with him.


honestly though, your hard pressed to find an electronic piece not made in freakin china. It sucks, but the quality IS there in these guns.

Admin note: Take not that your handle has been changed to something more family friendly - Empath


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## Up All Night (Oct 12, 2012)

LOL! "Dutch rudder". Awesome handle brother!!:laughing:


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## Empath (Oct 12, 2012)

Up All Night said:


> LOL! "Dutch rudder". Awesome handle brother!!:laughing:



Your handle has been changed to DutchR .


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## HighlanderNorth (Oct 12, 2012)

ElectronGuru said:


> These look great. As you point out, price is only one part of value. Do we know if they make these themselves?
> 
> 
> 
> ...






You must be referring to large, deep Phillips or square drive screws, because if you are using a standard slotted bit to try screwing in a relatively small machine screw with a fairly shallow slot, while the impacts start kicking in and vibrating the bit and twisting back and forth at high speed, its almost impossible to keep the bit in the slot!


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## Yoda4561 (Oct 13, 2012)

I've had much more luck driving a slotted wood screw (of the 2-3 inch variety) than with a drill. Once the screw is started the impact makes it easy to stay lined up with the slot. For fine machine screws I'd agree that yes, most impacts are too much tool for the job. At that level a hand screwdriver or lightweight, clutch equipped driver is best. I've used my impact with screws down to P1 size, I wouldn't try any smaller than that unless I was just trying to remove one, and then with some trigger finessing only.


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## RBR (Oct 13, 2012)

.....


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 16, 2012)

DutchR said:


> The little guns are made in (gulp) china, but the big guns (3/8 and 1/2) are built in the US.



We'll take every bit we can get.




RBR said:


> And i think that also buying habits have a big impact on market shares in the respective markets too. What "Buy US" is in USA is "Buy German" at this end here, not only for powered tools but also for other machinery and hand tools.



The the US culture is based on other cultures. Like the UK seems to be into financial and related services, which we are, while Germany seems to have a deep manufacturing culture, which we also have. The later seems to be waning, though not without a fight.




TedTheLed said:


> start naming names! I didnt think they were that light either ie. 3 lbs or under..



So my *DCF895* has arrived. For reasons only a marketer could understand, its not available with one of each battery (only 2 of either), so finding a dealer that would mix was a challenge, the result is worth it. Each battery size gives the tool a different personality, just from the difference in weight.

Drills can be shifted to a lower gear to get more torque. First impression, more torque with impacts requires more speed (kind of like small high revving engines).


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## Echo63 (Oct 17, 2012)

I bought a Ryobi one+ drill kit a while back, and the drill is great - it came with two small batteries (1.4ah)
Then I bought the HID spotlight, then a circular saw, then a Impact Wrench (1/2" drive rattlegun), then the jigsaw, mitre saw, planer, chainsaw, sander, a bunch of batteries, hedge trimmer, the 6 bay charger and the little impact driver (1/4" hex drive).

Honestly the tool I use most is the impact driver - it makes doing up screws so easy, it's almost fun - it can pop the heads of some screws though
i typically use the drill for pilot holes, then just drive the screws in with the impact driver.
the chainsaw is a bit slow, but works, and is still quicker than an bowsaw or axe.
i keep the impact wrench in the car for changing tyres - with a 4 wheels laid out, and a trolley jack I can change all 4 tyres on my car in about 6 mins, another 2 mins to go round and torque them up with a torque wrench and I'm done !
the hedge trimmer works as well as any corded unit I have tried, and I don't have to drag a cable across the yard and worry about severing it.

The Xenon light is a pretty cool light if you have the batteries and charger, otherwise it's a bit pricey - it throws a nice floody beam that will illuminate most of a footy oval (150odd meters in a nice wide beam)


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## orbital (Oct 20, 2012)

+

Had a very specific job to do today & my cordless drill was worthless,,,so enough is enough!
Ordered up a *HITACHI DV18DBL* drill {Brushless motor, optical switch}

Has both _clutch_ &_ hammer/impact_ functionality


http://www.hitachipowertools.com/index/main-navigation/tools.aspx?d=1,6,37&p=816







edit: went w/ the *DV18DBL* instead


​


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## kaichu dento (Oct 20, 2012)

That's going to be a great drill, and maybe become a family heirloom too!


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## TedTheLed (Oct 21, 2012)

no, it says lifetime. that means one, doesnt it?


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## kaichu dento (Oct 21, 2012)

TedTheLed said:


> no, it says lifetime. that means one, doesnt it?


But if it's good enough then the warranty won't matter! I'm sure no one would offer a Till the End of Time warranty, although it would be cool if they did!


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## orbital (Oct 22, 2012)

+


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## TedTheLed (Oct 22, 2012)

very exciting. though I see it weighs 3.7 pounds..
my makita 6950 weighs less than 3, and pretty much compares with the hitachi, except for the cord..
the trigger is very smooth and holds speed easily. if you want more power there is the 6952, exactly the same looks except has a belt hook. neither has needed new brushes, yet... the cost is less than half the hitachi, and there is no vulnerability to EMP from the sun or bombs, so unless you really cant use an extension cord..and gamma rays are not a prob..


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## orbital (Nov 4, 2014)

+ 2 year update.. 

re: *HITACHI DV18DBL *brushless 18V drill

This drills' been solid in every use I'v put it through, runtime is terrific & the fan cooled charger is fast (3.5A)
From drilling into tile, to cutting off a metal piece on a dock, no problems to report
*The multitude of speeds & the torque from the brushless motor is key*

*Build quality, runtime and overall handling are it's strongpoints.*

One thing I'd like to see adjusted... clutching could go even lighter for smaller situations. That's it


_________ Save yourself time & just get brushless tools straight away :thumbsup:


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