# Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP1



## HKJ (Feb 16, 2013)

[SIZE=+3]Charger Xtar VP1[/SIZE]










Xtar has made some good LiIon chargers, this is their latest model, introduced in January 2013. It has two channels each with a voltmeter and 3 current settings.















It comes in a box made of plastic with a view to the charger and specifications on the back.






In the box is the charger, a power supply, a car adapter, a instruction sheet and a warranty card.
The power supply I got was with US plug, but universal voltage (100-240VAC 50/60Hz).






The charger has a DC connector for power input.













The slots has raised battery connections, i.e. flat top batteries can be used. The slider works very smooth, with 16340 batteries the pressure is a bit low, but enough to get a connection. The maximum length is enough to take my longest battery, i.e. more than 70 mm. There is also a clear marking of polarity.
I will say that these slots work very well for the supported battery sizes.






On the top of the charger is a switch to select charge current, it can select between 0.25A, 0.50A and 1.00A, the current will be the same in both slots.












The display is the a new feature for Xtar and with the exception of hobby chargers, I do not know of other chargers with this resolution.
Everything is, of course, shown on the display and not with leds: The voltage of each battery, the selected charge current and the charge state.
I have found two minor cosmetic details with the display. The first one is the background lightning, if the display is looked at from most angles it has a bright white border. The second detail is the "charge finished" signaling, there is no indicator to show when the charge is finished, you have to look at the fill state in the battery symbol, when all five bars are steady, the battery is finished. I would have preferred a more clear indication.
The voltmeter has a good precision, when charging it will show slightly above the battery voltage, as expected. Sadly it will not really work above 4.20 volt (It will show one value and then stop updating).






Xtar has recently started adding a product verification code to their equipment. This code can be verified on their website.
But either my charger is a fake or there is some problem with the verifications system. My label has 3 groups of 6 digits, on the website you have to use 4 groups of 5 digits?


























The charger can handle 70 mm long batteries, inclusive flat top cells.



[SIZE=+2]Measurements[/SIZE]



Below 2.0 volt The charge current is between 2 and 3 mA. 
Between 1.5 volt and 2.0 volt the battery symbol will flash. 
Between 2.0 and 2.9 volt the charger current is about 42mA/42mA/72mA in the 3 current ranges. 
Above 2.9 volt the regular CC/CV is used, se curve below. 
Without power if will discharge the battery with about 0.5mA. 
With power it will charge with about 0.5 mA when the battery is full. 
Build in voltmeter is +0.015 volt at 0.25A 
Build in voltmeter is +0.025 volt at 1.00A 
The voltmeter can show voltages above 4.20 volt, but lock up and will not update anymore, before voltage is below 4.20 volt again. 
The voltmeter will only be enabled with battery voltages above 1.5 volt. 
Charge will restart if battery voltage drops to 3.9 volt. 
The charger will restart when a battery is inserted or power is cycled. 
Because each channel is independent, the different voltages varies between the channels with a small amount. 








The first charge curve is at the lowest charge current, it is a perfect CC/CV charge with termination at about 45mA. This is good, but a slightly lower termination current would have been better.






Increasing the current to 0.5A, does also give a perfect CC/CV curve. The termination current is again about 45 mA at this current it is very good.






Same at 1A, notice that the termination current is increased to about 75mA, again a very good performance.






The second channel looks just as good as the first channel.






Running both channels at the same time, does not change the curve, i.e. the channels are independent.






A 2600mAh battery will, of course, charge faster.






A smaller battery, works just as well.






My old worn down 16340 IMR cell is charged just as nice as any other battery.






One more try with the old 16340 cell, this time at 1A (Some other brand told me that this was not allowed with their charger).
With the VP1 there is no problem, it is just charged with a good CC/CV.

That it is a old worn out cell can also be seen on the voltmeter, the voltage will drop significantly within a couple of minutes, when the charge current is stopped.






When the charger is powered on, it will use some time to initialize, then the current will be slowly ramped up to the full charge current.
It is possible to change the charge current before it starts charging, but because it always power up at 0.25A it is not required.






It is also possible to change the charge current during charge.






Here is a voltmeter test, while charging at 1A. There will be some voltage drop in the connection to the battery, this also means that the error will be less at lower charge currents.


Testing the mains transformer with 2500 volt and 5000 volt between mains and low volt side, did not show any safety problems.



[SIZE=+2]Conclusion[/SIZE]

This charger does a perfect CC/CV, making it a fast charger or at least as fast as possible without cheating. With currents from 0.25 to 1A it covers many of the common batteries sizes, only exception is 26650 batteries and with a piece of tinfoil it is possible to charge one in the charger. I like the voltmeter, this makes it easy to see the charge state and also possible to spot a worn down battery.
I could have wished for a better "finished" indication and I would also like a larger range on the voltmeter, say from 0.00 volt to 4.35 volt.

I will rate this charger as very good.

Is this charger better than SP2? The charging is about the same, the advantages are from the voltmeter and from the lower charge current. The voltmeter is a nice feature for me, I am too lazy to check with a voltmeter each time I charge, now I can just look at the display. The 0.25A current makes it possible to charge 10440 cells and is slightly better for 16340 and some 14500 batteries. For me this makes the VP1 slightly better than SP2 and it will replace my SP2 as my most used charger.

For people that wants 4.20 volt on their batteries, this is not the charger, this charger uses the correct algorithm and the battery voltage will drop slightly below 4.20 volt when the charge is stopped.



[SIZE=+3]Notes[/SIZE]

I did all the tests at 110 VAC, because I bought the charger from US and got a US power supply.

Here is an explanation on how I did the above charge curves: How do I test a charger


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## cyclesport (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Thanks for yet another great detailed review HKJ! I've been waiting for this unit to become available for awhile (although I had wished for a four bay)and plan to buy one in the near future. Somewhat surprised there hasn't been more interest it it at this point.


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## RI Chevy (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Thank you for doing this for us! :thumbsup:


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## donn_ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Great review...thanks.

I got my Xtar chargers yesterday, including this one, and really like them.

I charged two pairs of cells on the VP1; 18650s (@1A) and 18490s(@0.5A). On each pair, the battery indicator kept flashing the last bar after the voltmeter reached 4.20. I waited 10 minutes to see if they would go all steady, but they did not. My Fluke read the 18650s at 4.09V and the 18490s at 4.18V.

I took an old over-discharged 26650 and tried it in the SP2. Its voltage was 1.04V before I started it on the 2A setting. It sat for 20 minutes before the LED went to red. It did, however, charge the cell normally after that waiting period.

I haven't charged a cell on the WP2 II yet, but I used a charged 18650 to recharge my cell phone via the USB outlet. Very handy feature.

All in all, I'm impressed with the Xtar chargers. I particularly like the faster charging rates. I also like the rubber feet. They keep the chargers in place better than most.

I tried to register them on the Xtar website, as suggested on the warranty cards, but could not find the feature on the site.


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## HKJ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



donn_ said:


> I charged two pairs of cells on the VP1; 18650s (@1A) and 18490s(@0.5A). On each pair, the battery indicator kept flashing the last bar after the voltmeter reached 4.20. I waited 10 minutes to see if they would go all steady, but they did not. My Fluke read the 18650s at 4.09V and the 18490s at 4.18V.



A real CC/CV charger is not finished when it reached 4.20 volt, as you can see on my curve, the charger may need an hour more.


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## donn_ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> A real CC/CV charger is not finished when it reached 4.20 volt, as you can see on my curve, the charger may need an hour more.



Sure enough. I put the 18490s back on the charger, and after about 20 minutes the indicators went steady. They clocked 4.195 on the DMM.

Can you describe the use of foil in charging 26xxx cells? Are you using it so the contact will reach the positive end of the cell?


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## HKJ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



donn_ said:


> Can you describe the use of foil in charging 26xxx cells? Are you using it so the contact will reach the positive end of the cell?



It is not the positive contact, but the negative (At least when the cell has a large top):






It will depend on the wrapping, some of my 26650 did not need the tinfoil.


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## __philippe (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Another HKJ's superbly illustrated measurement/test/review, thanks.

Hints to manufacturer for the next XTAR VP1 mark II iteration, which is sure to follow in a few months (weeks?)

- add one latching green LED per channel to provide positive charge termination signal
- allow actual voltage display over the 4.20 V present limit
- fix cosmetic blemish around display bezel 
- introduce a 4-bay version ?
- lower current price..?

Cheers,

__philippe


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## vali (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> For people that wants 4.20 volt on their batteries, this is not the charger, this charger uses the correct algorithm and the battery voltage will drop slightly below 4.20 volt when the charge is stopped.



On the other hand, charging like this the batteries will last longer. I remember one thread in the forum that stated something like charging up to 4.15 or so will double the battery cycles. Tried to find that, but no luck  (maybe it is my memory playing tricks on me)


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## Mr Happy (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> It is not the positive contact, but the negative (At least when the cell has a large top):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Just a note for anyone thinking about this. I my experiments with aluminum foil I have found the electrical contact to be slightly high resistance and unreliable due to the oxide layer coating the foil. For better results try to use tinned copper foil or something similar with a more conductive surface.


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## HKJ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Mr Happy said:


> Just a note for anyone thinking about this. I my experiments with aluminum foil I have found the electrical contact to be slightly high resistance and unreliable due to the oxide layer coating the foil. For better results try to use tinned copper foil or something similar with a more conductive surface.



Probably a good idea, but be careful, I have cut my fingers on real copper foil a lot of times.


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## donn_ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

This is how I'll charge larger cells:


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## psychbeat (Feb 16, 2013)

*Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Can u bridge the channels to charge @2 amps? 
I assume this is probably a bad idea


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## HKJ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



psychbeat said:


> Can u bridge the channels to charge @2 amps?
> I assume this is probably a bad idea



Without knowing the circuit and that it can handle it, it is a bad idea.


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## neutralwhite (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

hi dear HKJ, excuse me for any confusion, - in your review you stated " For people that wants 4.20 volt on their batteries, this is not the charger, this charger uses the correct algorithm and the battery voltage will drop slightly below 4.20 volt when the charge is stopped. "



so would this be fine enough to charge an AW 3100mAh 18650 battery?.
its a 3.7v battery right which charges up to 4.2v correct?.
what will the charger read when fully charged ?. 3.7? / 4.20?

thanks.


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## HKJ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



neutralwhite said:


> hi dear HKJ, excuse me for any confusion, - in your review you stated " For people that wants 4.20 volt on their batteries, this is not the charger, this charger uses the correct algorithm and the battery voltage will drop slightly below 4.20 volt when the charge is stopped. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, it will be perfectly fine to charge any 3.6 volt or 3.7 volt LiIon battery.

During charge it will go up to 4.20 volt, but when charge is finished it will probably drop to 4.19 or 4.18 volt (Depending on age and size of battery).

Me remark above was because some people believes that a fully charged battery has to read 4.20 volt. That is not correct, the charger has to use 4.20 volt and that is not the same.


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## neutralwhite (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

many thanks, about to order this charger, thanks to you!. lol.
the Fenix ARE C1 is gone, again thanks to you.

your a credit to cpf !. thank you for your time, and this clear cut review. 

goodnight.


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## Husker (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

OK...So where do I order this from? I will Google but if you have a recommendation, lay it on me please.
Great review, I was waiting for your review before pulling the trigger on my 1st charger-->:goodjob:


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## donn_ (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

I got mine from illuminationgear.com. Good selection, service and prices.


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## ggroyal1117 (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

I have been using my VP1 for about one month. It works great on all of my 18650 batteries.
Thanks for the excellent review.


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## neutralwhite (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

ebay uk.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170989071058





Husker said:


> OK...So where do I order this from? I will Google but if you have a recommendation, lay it on me please.
> Great review, I was waiting for your review before pulling the trigger on my 1st charger-->:goodjob:


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## Husker (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Never mind???


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## LEDAdd1ct (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Thank you, HKJ.

A real CC/CV charger, like the Pila, with a display. 

Only time will tell whether this is reliable, but initial results look good!


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## holylight (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

good review as usual, tyvm. brother u got time, can u review this http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-Charger&p=4137834&highlight=maha#post4137834

it is very interesting charger with break in function to restore battery's life.


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## ArcticHighlander (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



donn_ said:


> I got mine from illuminationgear.com. Good selection, service and prices.



Same here. Very good service and prices.


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## Darkmoonsun (Feb 16, 2013)

*Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

I got this charger from illumination gear as well. Absolutely fantastic service during and After purchase help as well!


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## Verndog (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Illuminationgear has them on backorder. SBFlashlights.com has them for the same price and is an authorized dealer, that is where I just ordered mine.


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## Changchung (Feb 16, 2013)

*Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> [size=+3]Charger Xtar VP1[/size]
> 
> Xtar has recently started adding a product verification code to their equipment. This code can be verified on their website.
> But either my charger is a fake or there is some problem with the verifications system. My label has 3 groups of 6 digits, on the website you have to use 4 groups of 5 digits?



Mmm... How can you confirm that your is not fake???

Thanks again for this good job...


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## holylight (Feb 16, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Changchung said:


> Mmm... How can you confirm that your is not fake???
> 
> Thanks again for this good job...
> 
> ...



should be qc not done....... rush product out


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## candle lamp (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Excellent test review as always. Thanks a lot for your doing this great work. HKJ!  :goodjob: :thumbsup:

I'm waiting for this nice charger.


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## HKJ (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Changchung said:


> Mmm... How can you confirm that your is not fake???



I cannot, but I bought it from an authorized dealer and it is probably to early for fakes.


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## neutralwhite (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

i think its a system mix up, something minor. 
i just ordered one off ebay. 
thanks again HKJ.



HKJ said:


> I cannot, but I bought it from an authorized dealer and it is probably to early for fakes.


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## TK41 (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

I really wish they had a more affordable 1 bay version of this. $50 is just too much for 1 18650 that I would charge maybe every 2 weeks-1 month. At that price point, I may as well just buy CR123s since the savings of using a rechargeable are negated by the cost of the charger.


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## Husker (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

*1st REAL Flashlight-Charger-Batteries...Got a feeling it won't be my last-->*

Ordered: OSTS TN31mb, Xtar VP1, & 6 Protected 3400mAh 18650 Li-ion Batteries.

When my charger & batteries arrive, what current setting (0.25A 0.50A 1.00A) should I use for the 1st time charge and then future charges, any advice/tips to help the batteries last I should know about?


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## HKJ (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Husker said:


> *1st REAL Flashlight-Charger-Batteries...Got a feeling it won't be my last-->*
> 
> Ordered: OSTS TN31mb, Xtar VP1, & 6 Protected 3400mAh 18650 Li-ion Batteries.
> 
> When my charger & batteries arrive, what current setting (0.25A 0.50A 1.00A) should I use for the 1st time charge and then future charges, any advice/tips to help the batteries last I should know about?



With 3400mAh batteries you can always use 1A, using 0.25A or 0.50A will not damage the battery, but might be hard on your patience.

The best advice is to avoid storing batteries in a hot place, temperatures above 40 centigrades increases wear on the batteries.


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## donn_ (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



donn_ said:


> I tried to register them on the Xtar website, as suggested on the warranty cards, but could not find the feature on the site.



Xtar replied to my email about registration.

http://www.xtarlight.com/en/07-new/p-001-1.asp?id=25


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## __philippe (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Husker said:


> *1st REAL Flashlight-Charger-Batteries...Got a feeling it won't be my last-->*
> 
> Ordered: OSTS TN31mb, Xtar VP1, & 6 Protected 3400mAh 18650 Li-ion Batteries.
> 
> When my charger & batteries arrive, what current setting (0.25A 0.50A 1.00A) should I use for the 1st time charge and then future charges, any advice/tips to help the batteries last I should know about?



see also HKJ's very own charging table :thumbsup:


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## Husker (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> With 3400mAh batteries you can always use 1A, using 0.25A or 0.50A will not damage the battery, but might be hard on your patience.
> 
> The best advice is to avoid storing batteries in a hot place, temperatures above 40 centigrades increases wear on the batteries.



I figure with two sets (3+3) I would have a set ready for rotation, time would not be a factor, my (newbie train of thought) thinking would be slow charging is better??

Would storing the batteries in the refrigerating be the best place?


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## HKJ (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Husker said:


> I figure with two sets (3+3) I would have a set ready for rotation, time would not be a factor, my (newbie train of thought) thinking would be slow charging is better??



The batteries are rated for 1.6A charging and 500 cycles, I doubt you get get much advantage from charging below 1A.




Husker said:


> Would storing the batteries in the refrigerating be the best place?



The problem with the fridge is humidity, batteries does not like corrosion! But the chemicals in the battery will last longer in the fridge.


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## Husker (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> The batteries are rated for 1.6A charging and 500 cycles, I doubt you get get much advantage from charging below 1A.
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Would storing the batteries in the refrigerating be the best place?
> ...



1A will be the setting I use...Thanks for helping-->:thumbsup:

I'll seal them in a Ziploc for the fridge.


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## Changchung (Feb 17, 2013)

*Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

50$ is to much for me right now... I will keep with my chargers and checking them with my DMM 


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## holylight (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> The batteries are rated for 1.6A charging and 500 cycles, I doubt you get get much advantage from charging below 1A.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



keep in dry box for storing camera than 
they keep humidity away


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## Changchung (Feb 17, 2013)

*Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



holylight said:


> keep in dry box for storing camera than
> they keep humidity away



I storage my batts in sealed box with a little bag of silica inside...


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## shelm (Feb 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Thanks for the review!!
I'll be back with questions when i have some. And the charger


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## Colonel Sanders (Feb 20, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Nice charger! However, for larger cells I think I'd stick with the SP2. It'll charge two 26650s or even two 32650s without any tinfoil, wires, spacers or other trickery. Plus, it'll do 2a.

But for anything else this VP looks awesome.


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## donn_ (Feb 20, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Colonel Sanders said:


> Nice charger! However, for larger cells I think I'd stick with the SP2. It'll charge two 26650s or even two 32650s without any tinfoil, wires, spacers or other trickery. Plus, it'll do 2a.



Hopefully the next version of the SP2 will include a display.


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## democopy (Feb 22, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

HKJ, good information!

How does the XTAR SP2 compare?


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## HKJ (Feb 23, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



democopy said:


> HKJ, good information!
> 
> How does the XTAR SP2 compare?



I do write about the SP2 in my conclusion above.


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## neutralwhite (Feb 27, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

did you know if you press the button on it for like 3 seconds, it switches off. 
don't know if that switches just the display off and still charges somehow maybe, or complete off. 
thanks.


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## verge (Feb 27, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



donn_ said:


> Xtar replied to my email about registration.
> 
> http://www.xtarlight.com/en/07-new/p-001-1.asp?id=25



What VIP membership registration?

Why VIP membership registration and not just Product registration? 

Do I have to pay to be eligible for VIP membership? Is VIP membership free?


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## RI Chevy (Feb 27, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

I read somewhere that Xtar shut that VIP product registration down on their website.


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## __philippe (Apr 4, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

to: HKJ/Admin

Any chance to correct the post Title to read "Xtar *VP1" *instead of VP as it stands now ?
Searches with "VP1" argument will miss this absolute "must read" test/review, which is an absolute shame....:shakehead.

Pretty please ?

__philippe


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## HKJ (Apr 4, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



__philippe said:


> to: HKJ/Admin
> 
> Any chance to correct the post Title to read "Xtar *VP1" *instead of VP as it stands now ?
> Searches with "VP1" argument will miss this absolute "must read" test/review, which is an absolute shame....:shakehead.
> ...



Fixed. Thanks for the saying it.


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## __philippe (Apr 4, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> Fixed. Thanks for the saying it.



Ta ! :thumbsup:


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## __philippe (Apr 4, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



__philippe said:


> Ta ! :thumbsup:



Well, maybe that was slightly premature...only post #1 shows *VP1* in the Title, all following posts still show VP..(instead of VP1)..and the term "VP1" does not get indexed for this thread.

Perhaps a matter for the Admin to look into?


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## HKJ (Apr 4, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



__philippe said:


> Well, maybe that was slightly premature...only post #1 shows *VP1* in the Title, all following posts still show VP..(instead of VP1)..and the term "VP1" does not get indexed for this thread.
> 
> Perhaps a matter for the Admin to look into?



The local search index does not index anything below 4 characters, use the google search for shorter words.

I do not see the significance of changing the title for the other posts. As long as the thread title is changed, listings will show VP1.

If you want to complain to an admin, use the "Questions/Problems/Suggestions" section.


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## __philippe (Apr 4, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Not complaining, ... but this is just baffling...

As of now, a CPF "Search Title Only" for "*VP1*" (_*3 characters*_, BTW) does correctly returns the following three "VP1" threads
(while it was definitely missing HKJ's thread before my post #52 was created)

_<Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP1 
<Started by HKJ, 02-16-2013 07:05 PM_
_
<Xtar Vp1 
<Started by holylight, 03-13-2013 06:13 AM _
_
<XTAR VP1 Two Bay LCD Charger 
<Started by Ualnosaj, 02-11-2013 11:18 PM_

Was I hallucinating in post #55 ?

Anyway, All is well now...


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## alexandrul (Apr 4, 2013)

__philippe said:


> Well, maybe that was slightly premature...only post #1 shows *VP1* in the Title, all following posts still show VP..(instead of VP1)..and the term "VP1" does not get indexed for this thread.



You can alter the title of your posts in advanced mode, since each post is allowed to have a personalized title. I guess only an admin can update the title of all posts in this thread.


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## subwoofer (Apr 4, 2013)

Great review and detailed testing. Thanks HKJ.

One of the WP II's important features for me is the USB output option. It doesn't look like the VP1 includes this feature. Can you confirm if there is or isn't a 5V USB output function.

(I frequently use the WP II to charge my Galaxy Nexus from 18650s)


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## HKJ (Apr 4, 2013)

subwoofer said:


> Great review and detailed testing. Thanks HKJ.
> 
> One of the WP II's important features for me is the USB output option. It doesn't look like the VP1 includes this feature. Can you confirm if there is or isn't a 5V USB output function.
> 
> (I frequently use the WP II to charge my Galaxy Nexus from 18650s)



There is no usb output.
I have added a section to my website with usb power, but because it is not relevant for flashlights, I do not post it here.


----------



## Geogecko (Apr 4, 2013)

HKJ, that is awesome, I've been looking for something like those battery boxes.

Any way you can add navigation to your pages? Sometimes I bookmark a charger or something, then want to go back and look at something else, but have to just delete the address in the bar. Just a suggestion. Love your reviews.


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## HKJ (Apr 4, 2013)

Geogecko said:


> Any way you can add navigation to your pages? Sometimes I bookmark a charger or something, then want to go back and look at something else, but have to just delete the address in the bar. Just a suggestion. Love your reviews.



I have been meaning to do that for a long time, but I always have something else that must be done first .


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## Geogecko (Apr 4, 2013)

No worries, just me being lazy!


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## HistoryChannel (Apr 4, 2013)

Kinda of a weird question but if I had one of these VP1's plugged into my car's Aux power port, would it drain the car battery to the point it wouldn't start? 

How about if I put 2 3400 mAh batteries in it to charge and left it without running the engine say for a day or 2.


----------



## Geogecko (Apr 4, 2013)

I don't think you'd have a problem charging a pair of batteries over the course of two days. A typical car battery capacity is huge, maybe 100+ Ah, or 100,000mAh. So two 3,400mAh batteries charged once would be close to 7,000mAh. That's like 7% of the car battery capacity.

Now as far as leaving them charging unattended, not sure I'd recommend that!

Disclaimer: Lead acid batteries typically used in automotive applications are not meant to be fully, or really even partially discharged. Car batteries are meant to provide a massive amount of amperage, for a very short time, in order to start the car. Marine grade lead acid batteries are designed to be discharged in a way similar to regular battery use, as they are used for electric trolling motors.


----------



## HistoryChannel (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks, I won't intentionally leave the batteries in but in case I forget.


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## HKJ (Apr 5, 2013)

HistoryChannel said:


> Kinda of a weird question but if I had one of these VP1's plugged into my car's Aux power port, would it drain the car battery to the point it wouldn't start?
> 
> How about if I put 2 3400 mAh batteries in it to charge and left it without running the engine say for a day or 2.



I have not measured on the standby power consumption of the VP1, but for charging it is possible to estimate energy.

A small car battery is 30Ah at 12 volt, this is 30*12 -> 360Wh.
A LiIon battery has up to 12Wh, assuming a efficiency of 80%, a charging of two batteries will need 2*12/0.8 -> 25Wh.

This will not run the battery down, but if you car has a small battery and just has enough energy to start in the morning, I would not do. For a car with a larger battery there is no problem.


----------



## holylight (Apr 5, 2013)

Xtar can produce such fine chargers, hope their chargers sale can give them more resources to carry out research in flashlight that can surprise us.


----------



## Geogecko (Apr 5, 2013)

I edited my original post with a couple of things regarding battery discharging of automotive batteries.


----------



## vorsmann (Jul 14, 2013)

At the top of the charger switch for the charging current, it can choose between 0.25A, 0.50A and 1.00A, the current will be equal in both slots. Question two channels dependent or separate? thank you


----------



## HKJ (Jul 14, 2013)

vorsmann said:


> At the top of the charger switch for the charging current, it can choose between 0.25A, 0.50A and 1.00A, the current will be equal in both slots. Question two channels dependent or separate? thank you


The two channels shares the current setting, i.e. they will always charge at the same current, but the actual charger circuit is separate, i.e. the two batteries are charged independently.


----------



## vorsmann (Jul 14, 2013)

I understand Thanks. I just ordered myself a charger [h=2]Xtar VP1[/h]


----------



## jhn.holgate (Jul 14, 2013)

I have one of these on the way also. If voltage & polarity are correct, can I use a higher amp rated power supply? (I only ask to save having yet another power supply taking up room on the floor!! - there's already a 2amp 12V supply that powers my hobby charger and a disk drive...so if the plug fits I thought I might as well use that...)


----------



## mattheww50 (Jul 14, 2013)

You can almost always use a higher amp rated power supply subject to two provisions:

1). Both the original supply and replacement have regulated output. Otherwise the large supply may deliver more voltage to the device then it was designed for. Most unregulated supplies have
a substantial drop in output voltage between no load and full load.

2). The draw from the larger supply is within the regulation limits. Many regulated power supplies have minimum current draws to remain in full regulation. Going from a 1 amp to a 2 amp supply for example won't be a problem, but going from a 1 amp to 20 amp supply might be.


----------



## jhn.holgate (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks Matthew. Both my MH-C9000 and disk drive power supplies measure 12.11 and 12.04 respectively with no load so I would assume they are regulated supplies and as both are rated to 2 amps, I would assume they are interchangeable with one another. Assuming the VP1 power supply is similar I should be good to go. A few less power supplies messing up the floor shall be excellent!


----------



## gopajti (Jul 15, 2013)




----------



## __philippe (Jul 15, 2013)

Nice picture, Gopatji !

BTW, since you are usually well informed about manufacturers imminent releases, is this some subtle hint at a possible forthcoming XTAR VP1 upgrade ?

__philippe


----------



## gopajti (Jul 15, 2013)

Hi philippe, thanks. Now XTAR working on WP2s, XP4, and they are planned other chargers in this year, but I'm not heard upgraded version of VP1.


----------



## jCAGLS (Jul 23, 2013)

> When the VP1 is on standby, place the over discharged battery into the channels (battery�s
> voltage≤ 2.0 V) correctly, and the VP1 will start the cell activation automatically. If the battery
> voltage is lower than 1.5 V, no battery information will be displayed on the corresponding LCD, but
> it still in activation state. When the battery voltage over 1.5 V, the charger can display the real-time
> ...



I have some older AW IMR 1600 mah batteries that have a shortened capacity and one of the reasons I purchased this charger. What indicates this charger to be in stand by mode?


----------



## beamshots (Jul 23, 2013)

Hi. It is good for a 18650 to charge always at 1A, or lower is better (for life of the battery). What is the recommendation? Thanks Dave


----------



## HKJ (Jul 24, 2013)

jCAGLS said:


> What indicates this charger to be in stand by mode?




The display for that channel is off. 
You can see it is finished charging when no segments in the battery is flashing.


----------



## HKJ (Jul 24, 2013)

beamshots said:


> Hi. It is good for a 18650 to charge always at 1A, or lower is better (for life of the battery). What is the recommendation? Thanks Dave



I do always use 1A, this is a good rate for just about any 18650 cell. For the Panasonic 2900mAh and 3100mAh this is slightly to high, but not enough to really worry about.


----------



## recDNA (Jul 26, 2013)

I just got my vp1 today. The last 30-45 minutes of charging a voltage of 4.20 is displayed yet the battery could be anything from 4.14 to 4.17 volts when tested with a meter as soon as the charger displays 4.20 volts. This is logical since the battery symbol still shows that the battery is not fully charged yet. (missing 1 bar). When charge was completed both battery values on the charger dropped from 4.20 to 4.19 yet one battery was at 4.17 volts and the 4.18 volts when measured with a fluke meter. It looks to me like the voltage display shows the actual battery voltage for a second when battery is first inserted then the display switches to charge voltage then supposedly (but inacurately) displays actual battery voltage when charging is compete.... or is my vp1 defective? 

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2


----------



## HKJ (Jul 27, 2013)

recDNA said:


> I just got my vp1 today. The last 30-45 minutes of charging a voltage of 4.20 is displayed yet the battery could be anything from 4.14 to 4.17 volts when tested with a meter as soon as the charger displays 4.20 volts. This is logical since the battery symbol still shows that the battery is not fully charged yet. (missing 1 bar). When charge was completed both battery values on the charger dropped from 4.20 to 4.19 yet one battery was at 4.17 volts and the 4.18 volts when measured with a fluke meter. It looks to me like the voltage display shows the actual battery voltage for a second when battery is first inserted then the display switches to charge voltage then supposedly (but inacurately) displays actual battery voltage when charging is compete.... or is my vp1 defective?



It sounds ok to me.
The charger uses a constant current charging, not a pulsing charging, i.e. any meter will show a higher voltage when the charge current is on. The buildin meter will show slightly higher due to losses in internal connections, than an external meter.


----------



## MBentz (Jul 27, 2013)

Is there any reason to buy this charger over any of the hobby chargers in the same price range?


----------



## HKJ (Jul 27, 2013)

MBentz said:


> Is there any reason to buy this charger over any of the hobby chargers in the same price range?



Two channels and much easier to use (Less key presses, build in trays).


----------



## MichaelAng (Jul 27, 2013)

HI,

Just got this charger and couldn't find any thing said of it being able to charge RCR123 batteries. 

Any idea? I don't want to risk any explosion. My RCR 123 are 3V type.

Thanks


----------



## HKJ (Jul 28, 2013)

MichaelAng said:


> HI,
> 
> Just got this charger and couldn't find any thing said of it being able to charge RCR123 batteries.
> 
> Any idea? I don't want to risk any explosion. My RCR 123 are 3V type.



Being the 3V type, the answer is probably not.


----------



## __philippe (Jul 28, 2013)

MichaelAng said:


> HI,
> 
> Just got this charger and couldn't find any thing said of it being able to charge RCR123 batteries.
> 
> ...



Michael, which brand/type of 3V RCR123 are you talking about ?

Usually Li-ion RCR123, such as well-known AW's IR 123(750mAh), for instance, are rated *3.7V.*

__philippe


----------



## lebox97 (Jul 29, 2013)

Sorry, no - you cannot charge LiPo *3.2v* cells with a Li-ion *3.7v* charger.

* RCR123/R123 *LiPo (LFP) *"3.0v/3.3v"* (nominal voltage) charge up to 3.6v

* 16340* (123 size) Li-ion "*3.6/3.7*" (nominal voltage) charge up to 4.2v

what adds to confusion is people throw the names around interchangeably/generically - note the AW's are 3.0v "R123" - and NOT 3.7v.
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?125353-NEW-R123-with-safe-chemistry

they very different chemistry and voltage, for different applications - requiring very different chargers (or one that has a select switch such as the* XTAR MP2*)

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/lithium_based_batteries


Cheers




MichaelAng said:


> HI,
> 
> Just got this charger and couldn't find any thing said of it being able to charge RCR123 batteries.
> 
> ...


----------



## HKJ (Jul 29, 2013)

lebox97 said:


> Sorry, no - you cannot charge LiPo *3.2v* cells with a Li-ion *3.7v* charger.
> 
> * RCR123/R123 *LiPo (LFP) *"3.0v/3.3v"* (nominal voltage) charge up to 3.6v
> 
> * 16340* (123 size) Li-ion "*3.6/3.7*" (nominal voltage) charge up to 4.2v



That is not even fully correct. All the cells are LiIon cells and there are not 2 types as you writes, but 3 types, the last being "LiCoO2 with diodes".
I did write a small article about this: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?366975-CR123A-and-rechargeable-substitutes


----------



## lebox97 (Jul 29, 2013)

thanks HKJ, but the context of my response was to answer - 
"can a XTAR VP1 3.6v charger charge a 3v battery", the answer is no, it is a different chemistry (type) battery.

Cheers





HKJ said:


> That is not even fully correct. All the cells are LiIon cells and there are not 2 types as you writes, but 3 types, the last being "LiCoO2 with diodes".
> I did write a small article about this: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?366975-CR123A-and-rechargeable-substitutes


----------



## HKJ (Jul 29, 2013)

lebox97 said:


> thanks HKJ, but the context of my response was to answer -
> "can a XTAR VP1 3.6v charger charge a 3v battery", the answer is no, it is a different chemistry (type) battery.



If he has this type of "3v" battery:






He can, that was the reason for my first response ("Probably not"), because it is only one of many batteries marked with 3V.

And this battery is also the reason your answer is not complete.


----------



## MBentz (Jul 29, 2013)

HKJ said:


> Two channels and much easier to use (Less key presses, build in trays).



But the hobby charger is significantly better? I only ask because I was into electric R/C for a while and never considered using magnets in alligator clips to charge my flashlight batteries. For $120 you can get a good hobby grade charger that can charge two batteries at once. (NiMH, LiPo and LiFe) In fact, if you ran your batteries in a series, I suppose you could charge up to six LiPos at once. http://www.amainhobbies.com/product...Multi-Chemistry-Balance-Charger-5A-3S-40W-x-2


----------



## HKJ (Jul 29, 2013)

MBentz said:


> But the hobby charger is significantly better? I only ask because I was into electric R/C for a while and never considered using magnets in alligator clips to charge my flashlight batteries. For $120 you can get a good hobby grade charger that can charge two batteries at once. (NiMH, LiPo and LiFe) In fact, if you ran your batteries in a series, I suppose you could charge up to six LiPos at once. http://www.amainhobbies.com/product...Multi-Chemistry-Balance-Charger-5A-3S-40W-x-2



I would say the VP1 is best, because batteries fits directly in it and you need a maximum of two keypresses to charge any battery, but that is only for charging LiIon. For many other jobs the hobby charger is better.

It is a bit like asking what is best "adjustable spanner" or a "fixed spanner", as long as it fit the fixed is best, in all other cases the adjustable is best.

And hobby chargers are much cheaper than the one your link to, the start at about $25 (That model requires external power supply).


----------



## MBentz (Jul 29, 2013)

It does require an external power supply (whoops, missed that) but there are not many that are high quality while being able to charge two batteries at once. I guess what I meant to ask was, as far as the actual charging algorithms go, isn't the hobby charger going to be better?


----------



## HKJ (Jul 29, 2013)

MBentz said:


> It does require an external power supply (whoops, missed that) but there are not many that are high quality while being able to charge two batteries at once.



The $25 model requires external power supply, the one you linked has a build in power supply. You get get four channel hobby chargers, I sometimes uses this rig:








MBentz said:


> I guess what I meant to ask was, as far as the actual charging algorithms go, isn't the hobby charger going to be better?



No, they are exactly them same, as long as you want to charge to 4.2 volt.


----------



## gopajti (Aug 31, 2013)




----------



## Outlander (Sep 7, 2013)

HKJ said:


> That is not even fully correct. All the cells are LiIon cells and there are not 2 types as you writes, but 3 types, the last being "LiCoO2 with diodes".
> I did write a small article about this: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?366975-CR123A-and-rechargeable-substitutes



So...can you charge aw icr123 3.7v 750mAh batteries in this?


----------



## HKJ (Sep 7, 2013)

Outlander said:


> So...can you charge aw icr123 3.7v 750mAh batteries in this?



Yes, if they really are 3.7 volt batteries with a 4.2 volt charge requirements as the ICR and 3.7 volt marking suggest. Not all RCR123 batteries are correctly marked.


----------



## Human Exhaust (Sep 12, 2013)

HKJ you are my new man crush. I bought my vp1 based on your review and I couldn't be happier.


----------



## RI Chevy (Sep 12, 2013)

Welcome to the forum! :welcome:

Join the crowd.


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## cactus man (Sep 22, 2013)

Thanks HKJ for the review.
I found the charger on amazon.com
Interesting their "package" did not include the 12V power cord.

I also found it very interesting that XTAR has a "fraud code"
I can't recall any other company or product that offers a verification code.
Well done XTAR!!!

I typically use only 18650 protected batteries.
My other charger is the Intellicharger I4 which also works quite well.

I now prefer the VP1 since you can monitor the charging voltage and gain an idea as to
when the battery charge cycle is completed. This is superior to the infamous LED only indication.


Cactus Man


----------



## HKJ (Sep 22, 2013)

cactus man said:


> Interesting their "package" did not include the 12V power cord.



That is very common, usual the dealer can order with or without car power adapter.


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## lowks (Sep 22, 2013)

Cactusman I believe you meant to say you prefer the VP1 right and not the XP1?


----------



## tony_roti (Oct 22, 2013)

Hi HKJ

I just ordered this charger for me. Until it arrive, one question:
What is the lower limit of the measured voltage?

This is an excellent review by the way. Very detailed.
Thanks.

LE: It just arrived and I saw written on the back box: >1.5V
Excelent piece of hardware. I'm very happy with it. So lazy too to check the battery voltage with a multimeter.


----------



## tony_roti (Oct 23, 2013)

HKJ said:


> Xtar has recently started adding a product verification code to their equipment. This code can be verified on their website.
> But either my charger is a fake or there is some problem with the verifications system. My label has 3 groups of 6 digits, on the website you have to use 4 groups of 5 digits?



There is no problem with the verification system. The code can be checked as follows:
If your code looks like this:
xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx = 3 groups * 6 digits = 18 digits + two spaces betwen groups = 20 digits.
On the website the code must be written like this:
xxxxx x_xxx xxxxx _xxxx = 4 groups * 5 digits = 20 digits, where the underlines should be replaced with spaces.


----------



## HKJ (Oct 23, 2013)

tony_roti said:


> There is no problem with the verification system. The code can be checked as follows:
> If your code looks like this:
> xxxxxx xxxxxx xxxxxx = 3 groups * 6 digits = 18 digits + two spaces betwen groups = 20 digits.
> On the website the code must be written like this:
> xxxxx x_xxx xxxxx _xxxx = 4 groups * 5 digits = 20 digits, where the underlines should be replaced with spaces.



This does not really change my point. If you have 3 groups the web page is also supposed to have 3 groups, or they must supply a explanation with the charger or on the web page.


----------



## flyback (Oct 23, 2013)

This thing should be able to charge 32650 batteries if you used an adapter to hook the batteries to it, correct?


----------



## tony_roti (Oct 23, 2013)

HKJ said:


> This does not really change my point. If you have 3 groups the web page is also supposed to have 3 groups, or they must supply a explanation with the charger or on the web page.



You're right about this. They must supply a explanation for all products that they sell with verification code.
I figured out myself when I tried to check the xtar B20 flashlight and the mp1s charger.

Best regard.


----------



## Disciple (Nov 13, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



psychbeat said:


> Can u bridge the channels to charge @2 amps?
> I assume this is probably a bad idea





HKJ said:


> Without knowing the circuit and that it can handle it, it is a bad idea.



Is this possible to determine from an examination of the circuit? It would be rather handy to be able to charge a 26650 at 2A.


----------



## Disciple (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

HKJ, I think you have the equipment to answer this: how efficient is the VP1 running off 12V input? How many watt hours will the charger draw to put 20 watt hours into a pair of 18650's?


----------



## HKJ (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Disciple said:


> HKJ, I think you have the equipment to answer this: how efficient is the VP1 running off 12V input? How many watt hours will the charger draw to put 20 watt hours into a pair of 18650's?



I do definitely have the equipment and you asked at the right time (I have just finished testing a charger, i.e. my equipment was idle).

I have started this test:
"index";"time";"dateTime";"Current";"Voltage";"PSV";"PSA";"PSW";"PSAh";"PSWh";"MathAvgCurrent"
1;0;14-11-2013 18:20:40;0,360036;3,3521;11,989;0,344;4,124216;0,0000503;0,0006026;0,360036
2;0,9;14-11-2013 18:20:41;0,806289;3,4132;11,989;0,644;7,720916;0,0002113;0,0025328;0,5831625
3;1,8;14-11-2013 18:20:42;0,979084;3,4609;11,989;0,811;9,723079;0,000414;0,0049636;0,7151363
4;2,7;14-11-2013 18:20:42;0,975039;3,4685;11,989;0,809;9,699101;0,0006163;0,0073884;0,780112
5;3,6;14-11-2013 18:20:43;0,975206;3,4718;11,989;0,811;9,723079;0,000819;0,0098191;0,8191308
6;4,5;14-11-2013 18:20:44;0,975394;3,4735;11,989;0,811;9,723079;0,0010218;0,0122499;0,8451747
7;5,4;14-11-2013 18:20:45;0,976185;3,4749;11,989;0,811;9,723079;0,0012245;0,0146807;0,8638904
8;6,3;14-11-2013 18:20:46;0,976582;3,476;11,989;0,812;9,735068;0,0014275;0,0171144;0,8779769


With two 3100mAh batteries in the charger and 1A charge current.
I expect a result in about 4 hours.


----------



## Disciple (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Thank you!


----------



## Disciple (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

A little late to mention it, but I guess for peak efficiency it would be best to have the display off.
If it is not, perhaps as a separate test you could check the momentary draw with display on and off?


----------



## HKJ (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Disciple said:


> A little late to mention it, but I guess for peak efficiency it would be best to have the display off.
> If it is not, perhaps as a separate test you could check the momentary draw with display on and off?



The display does not turn off.


----------



## Disciple (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> The display does not turn off.



What happens when you hold the mode button for a few seconds? On mine the display goes dark but I think it continues to charge. Holding it again turns the display back on. It may be that this turns off the charging as I haven't tested it, but it behaves as though it is in the middle of a cycle. I'm going to test it on mine now; I'll see if with the display off if it charges a cell.


----------



## HKJ (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Disciple said:


> What happens when you hold the mode button for a few seconds? On mine the display goes dark but I think it continues to charge. Holding it again turns the display back on. It may be that this turns off the charging as I haven't tested it, but it behaves as though it is in the middle of a cycle. I'm going to test it on mine now; I'll see if with the display off if it charges a cell.



You are correct, it does turn off, but the change in current is small about 15mA.








Total 2.511Ah and 30.104Wh used from the 12 volt power supply

The last few lines of my log:

"index";"time";"dateTime";"Current";"Voltage";"PSV";"PSA";"PSW";"PSAh";"PSWh";"MathAvgCurrent"
14576;13117,5;14-11-2013 21:59:17;0,000622;4,183;11,988;0,019;0,227772;2,5113434;30,1039236;0,0006181
14577;13118,4;14-11-2013 21:59:18;0,000621;4,183;11,987;0,019;0,227753;2,5113481;30,1039806;0,0006182
14578;13119,3;14-11-2013 21:59:19;0,000615;4,183;11,988;0,019;0,227772;2,5113528;30,1040371;0,0006183
14579;13120,2;14-11-2013 21:59:20;0,000614;4,1829;11,988;0,019;0,227772;2,5113576;30,1040937;0,0006185
14580;13121,1;14-11-2013 21:59:21;0,000611;4,1829;11,988;0,019;0,227772;2,5113623;30,1041506;0,0006186
14581;13122;14-11-2013 21:59:22;0,000618;4,1829;11,988;0,019;0,227772;2,5113671;30,1042081;0,0006188


----------



## Disciple (Nov 14, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Thanks again!


----------



## bobstay (Nov 15, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

If my maths is right, this comes out as roughly 80% efficient, which doesn't seem bad.

(I guessed an average of 3.9V, and did: power into 18650s = 3.9V x 6.2Ah = 24.2 Wh)

I think to get a properly accurate value for the power into the batteries, though, you would have to create another column in the data: Power into battery (by multiplying each Current x Voltage value), and integrate that over the whole time of the log. Any chance you could either do this, or provide the full data file, so I can do it?


----------



## HKJ (Nov 15, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



bobstay said:


> If my maths is right, this comes out as roughly 80% efficient, which doesn't seem bad.
> 
> (I guessed an average of 3.9V, and did: power into 18650s = 3.9V x 6.2Ah = 24.2 Wh)
> 
> I think to get a properly accurate value for the power into the batteries, though, you would have to create another column in the data: Power into battery (by multiplying each Current x Voltage value), and integrate that over the whole time of the log. Any chance you could either do this, or provide the full data file, so I can do it?



Summing the file I got 21.7 watt into the batteries.
If you want the file to play with, just send your email address (Use PM or the email address on my website) and I will zip the file and send it to you.


----------



## bobstay (Nov 15, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Ok, so that makes 72% efficient. Still not too bad.

I don't need the file, I just wanted the result


----------



## qazx (Nov 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Does the charger remember the amp setting selected the next time a battery is put in, even if unplugged after the last use?

i would just be using the 1Amp setting and it would be a bit annoying to have to keep selecting it everytime and i sometimes have to move my chargers between different sockets.

thanks


----------



## HKJ (Nov 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



qazx said:


> Does the charger remember the amp setting selected the next time a battery is put in, even if unplugged after the last use?



The setting is remembered as long as there is power on the charger.

When powered on it always starts at 0.25A (this is safest).


----------



## qazx (Nov 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Ah, ok. i will have to find a socket i can leave it plugged in to when i get it.

ta


----------



## Disciple (Nov 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Pushing the button twice really isn't that hard even for a clown like me. At worst you forget and it takes longer for the cells to charge. Because it defaults to the low setting there is no risk of forgetting and charging a small cell too quickly.


----------



## qazx (Nov 17, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Disciple said:


> Pushing the button twice really isn't that hard even for a clown like me. At worst you forget and it takes longer for the cells to charge. Because it defaults to the low setting there is no risk of forgetting and charging a small cell too quickly.



All true, but these days i highly value simplicity especially for everyday things.
maybe its because of years navigating through menus and sub menus on microsoft smartphones, cheap alarm clocks and other things just to do something basic.


----------



## Disciple (Nov 18, 2013)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

I can appreciate that position. If you want only 1A charging and you are willing to give up the voltage meters consider the Soshine SC-S1max V3 -- you get four 1 amp charging channels, car (12v) and wall power, and it costs only $24.33 shipped from FastTech (with discount code).


----------



## AWE (Dec 3, 2013)

HKJ said:


> Sadly it will not really work above 4.20 volt (It will show one value and then stop updating).



Hi, actually it reads voltages above 4.2V, but it doesn't charge above this value. I charged a battery on a MP1 and put it on the VP1, to my surprise it read 4.24V, (which is actually kind of disappointing for the MP1, as it didn't even show a green LED, so charging was still in progress).

I will post a picture later, it's on my other computer.


----------



## RI Chevy (Dec 3, 2013)

Interesting. Just acts as a voltmeter I guess.


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## AWE (Dec 4, 2013)

Here's the pic:


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## Disciple (Dec 4, 2013)

HKJ didn't say it wouldn't read above 4.2v, but rather: "It will show one value and then stop updating." (As you quoted.) You don't seem to be describing or demonstrating anything different. If your 4.24v source changes voltage while still connected does the display update?


----------



## AWE (Dec 4, 2013)

I just want to say that it shows the real battery voltage, nothing different to demonstrate 

But, now I'm worried about my MP1 charger, as I started to build some trust in xtar quality, but this particular little charger might have an issue or something, as it didn't even finish charging the battery and the voltage was already 4.24V, I wonder what it would've shown if I had the patience to leave the battery in until the LED was green... Not really happy with it...

Btw and to answer your question, after a couple hours, it updated the reading accordingly as the battery lost some juice, I'm perfectly happy with the VP1 overall, seems one of the better chargers on the market at the moment.


----------



## Disciple (Dec 4, 2013)

OK, just confirming. I have a VP1 too and it seems good, but it is my first lithium ion charger so I can't compare it to others.


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## RI Chevy (Dec 4, 2013)

I would rate the VP1 charger right there with the Pila. The VP1 is really battery friendly!


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## BarryH (Dec 4, 2013)

AWE - Keep in mind that while it is convenient to use the voltage display to check battery voltages, it is not a necessarily an exact, accurate voltage reading compared to a high quality, and more expensive volt meter. Your battery could indeed be at 4.20v even though the VP1 display was showing 4.24v

On my new VP1 I just tested a couple different batteries voltages and then tested them with a more precise (and calibrated) Fluke meter. In each case my VP1 was consistently showing a voltage reading .03v higher than what my much more expensive Fluke meter showed.

This was not during a charge cycle, but just using the VP1 to display the battery voltage at rest.


----------



## OneBigDay (Dec 6, 2013)

I just picked up one of these from Oveready a week or so ago and have run many cells through it already. *This is an awesome charger*. Simple to use yet multiple charging currents, display is pleasant and easy to read, and the springs mean I don't have to rig up spacers to charge different length cells. The icing on the cake for me is that this charger charges the closest to the correct voltage without going over; it does this better than any other charger I've owned. It does perfect on IMR cells and 26650's too!

I have a Pila IBC charger and although it is a decent charger, no display, slow, and it always undercharged my cells (4.16-4.18 was "finished"). I had to rig up jumpers to charge 26650's, so it had room for improvement.

I often used the various battery space "Smart Chargers" (i.e. Battery Space CH-L3718). They only charge 1 cell at a time but I am space constrained and they are small and easy to pack up and put out of sight. Only downside to these is that they tend to overcharge my cells, especially IMR cells (to 4.24 or even 4.25).

Just wanted to add another endorsement to the XTAR VP1 charger. Progress I think for Liion charging!


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## tony_roti (Dec 9, 2013)

BarryH said:


> AWE - Keep in mind that while it is convenient to use the voltage display to check battery voltages, it is not a necessarily an exact, accurate voltage reading compared to a high quality, and more expensive volt meter. Your battery could indeed be at 4.20v even though the VP1 display was showing 4.24v
> 
> On my new VP1 I just tested a couple different batteries voltages and then tested them with a more precise (and calibrated) Fluke meter. In each case my VP1 was consistently showing a voltage reading .03v higher than what my much more expensive Fluke meter showed.
> 
> This was not during a charge cycle, but just using the VP1 to display the battery voltage at rest.



I agree with BarryH. My VP1 charger shows a voltage reading .02 higher than my multimeter does.
And it acts like a voltmeter. I was able to display a voltage higher than 4.20V with a cell charged in other charger (MP1S).


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## ToneDeath (Dec 27, 2013)

Does anyone know of a upgraded version or any new style Xtar VP1 chargers that will be shown at the CES 2014 show?


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## ODJOE (Dec 27, 2013)

great detailed review i;ll be getting one on payday
thanx joe


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## applevalleyjoe (Jan 4, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> It is not the positive contact, but the negative (At least when the cell has a large top):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thaks for the clarification. As a follow p, are there any chargers out there dedicated to the 26650 and 36650?


----------



## HKJ (Jan 4, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



applevalleyjoe said:


> Thaks for the clarification. As a follow p, are there any chargers out there dedicated to the 26650 and 36650?



Yes, but not all of them are good, you can check my review list: http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/indexBatteriesAndChargers UK.html
Note: The Efest LUC V4 is supposed to be fixed, I will be running new tests on it.


----------



## __philippe (Feb 1, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



__philippe said:


> Another HKJ's superbly illustrated measurement/test/review, thanks.
> 
> Hints to manufacturer for the next XTAR VP1 mark II iteration, which is sure to follow in a few months (weeks?)
> 
> ...



He,he...looks like Xtar did indeed follow up, a mere ten months later, on a few suggestions of mine from this modest proposal.....

http://i59.tinypic.com/b3v9cp.jpg 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-VP2-charger&p=4372110&viewfull=1#post4372110

Cheers,

__philippe


----------



## RI Chevy (Feb 1, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

 Waiting for this _NEW_ charger to be thoroughly tested by HKJ.  I like the updates, but they need a 4 bay charger.


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## dkswoleja (Feb 9, 2014)

I am revealing my "rookie" experience with this question, will the VP1 charger charge AA AAA batteries. I am looking to purchase my first 18650 for flashlights, and from 2 days of searching I think I will go with the Orbtronic 3400's, but need a good charger to go with them. Besides the VP1, what other chargers are top notch that have the display screen?


----------



## candle lamp (Feb 10, 2014)

dkswoleja said:


> I am revealing my "rookie" experience with this question, will the VP1 charger charge AA AAA batteries.


If AA and AA batteries are ICR or IMR (charge voltage 4.2V) cells, VP1 will charge them.


----------



## HKJ (Feb 10, 2014)

Maybe it will be a good idea to add that AA is called 14500 and AAA is called 10440 when they are LiIon, i.e. 4.2 volt.


----------



## __philippe (Feb 12, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



applevalleyjoe said:


> Thaks for the clarification. As a follow p, are there any chargers out there dedicated to the 26650 and 36650?



There is one 26650 candidate I heard of lately...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-VP2-charger&p=4372110&viewfull=1#post4372110

Cheers,

__philippe


----------



## Hot Brass (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

Just charged a single brand new Samsung 20R 18650,using the left side,display shows four bars and the fifth is flashing,voltage shows 4.20V.....been like that for maybe 10 minutes,so will it shut off on it's own? Thanks,HB


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## HKJ (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Hot Brass said:


> Just charged a single brand new Samsung 20R 18650,using the left side,graoh shows 4 bars and the fifth is flashing,voltage shows 4.20V.....been like that for maybe 10 minutes,so will it shut off on it's own? Thanks,HB



Yes it will, but it can be more than an hour.


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## Hot Brass (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> Yes it will, but it can be more than an hour.



Thanks! This is the first time I had ever tried charging a single battery on the VP-1,usually two,so everything is o.k.....I will wait. Thanks,HB


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## HKJ (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



Hot Brass said:


> Thanks! This is the first time I had ever tried charging a single battery on the VP-1,usually two,so everything is o.k.....I will wait. Thanks,HB



It does not matter if your charge one or two batteries. Battery type, age and charge current affect the time. 
This charger uses CC/CV charging, when the voltage reach 4.20 volt it starts on the CV (Constant voltage) phase. I you need the battery fast you can remove it now, it will be 80% or more charged (Except for very old batteries).


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## Hot Brass (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> Yes it will, but it can be more than an hour.



Thanks.....it did stop charging about five minutes after my last post. 4.20V. HB


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## Husker (Mar 26, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*



HKJ said:


> It does not matter if your charge one or two batteries. Battery type, age and charge current affect the time.
> This charger uses CC/CV charging, when the voltage reach 4.20 volt it starts on the CV (Constant voltage) phase. I you need the battery fast you can remove it now, it will be 80% or more charged (Except for very old batteries).



I guess it's true...You learn something everyday. I've been removing soon as it reaches 4.20...Thanks for feeding my brain today.


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## RI Chevy (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

If your using a VP1 charger, they usually come out when finished at 4.19v's. At least mine do.


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## neutralwhite (Mar 27, 2014)

*Re: Review of / Measurement on Charger Xtar VP*

+1.

same usually.



RI Chevy said:


> If your using a VP1 charger, they usually come out when finished at 4.19v's. At least mine do.


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## tobrien (Apr 3, 2014)

HKJ, I'm gonna buy a VP2 this week and have a question for you. 

I have three AW 17670s (protected) for my Surefire M6 rechargeable pack. Is it safe to charge two of the cells for the one light in a VP1 and charge the third cell in the VP2 to save time? I'm really asking if the XTAR VP2 charges the same as my VP1 if you have any idea for that. 

I think because they're both XTAR chargers they'll charge 4.2v cells the exact same way. Your thoughts?

Edit: or I could charge two of the cells in the VP2 and one cell in the VP1. Whatever works.


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## HKJ (Apr 3, 2014)

tobrien said:


> I have three AW 17670s (protected) for my Surefire M6 rechargeable pack. Is it safe to charge two of the cells for the one light in a VP1 and charge the third cell in the VP2 to save time? I'm really asking if the XTAR VP2 charges the same as my VP1 if you have any idea for that.
> 
> I think because they're both XTAR chargers they'll charge 4.2v cells the exact same way. Your thoughts?



I have not checked the VP2 yet, but I expect it will be very equal to VP1 in charging performance. The only difference will be tolerances on the reference (That does also exist between different chargers of the same model) and maybe different termination current.

As long as you use protected batteries I would not worry about it.


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## tobrien (Apr 3, 2014)

HKJ said:


> I have not checked the VP2 yet, but I expect it will be very equal to VP1 in charging performance. The only difference will be tolerances on the reference (That does also exist between different chargers of the same model) and maybe different termination current.
> 
> As long as you use protected batteries I would not worry about it.


thank you for the response, that's just what I wanted/needed to know. Thanks man!


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## jdonner (Jun 22, 2014)

I don't understand the purpose of the voltage displays if they stop updating after 4.2v. Does that mean that it can happily continue to charge your batteries beyond that without you knowing it? But if stops at 4.2v, how do you know the condition of the batteries?


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## HKJ (Jun 22, 2014)

jdonner said:


> I don't understand the purpose of the voltage displays if they stop updating after 4.2v. Does that mean that it can happily continue to charge your batteries beyond that without you knowing it? But if stops at 4.2v, how do you know the condition of the batteries?



I would expect it is linked to the charging function, i.e. it stops updating when the charging stops.
And if you put a battery in with higher voltage, it will update once, showing the voltage.


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## UnderPar (Sep 11, 2014)

HKJ said:


> [SIZE=+3]Charger Xtar VP1[/SIZE]
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## Husker (Sep 11, 2014)

UnderPar said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums



?????


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## Husker (Jul 3, 2016)

Would it be safe to let Panasonic-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-3500mAh-10A-18650 batteries charge overnight?


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## Offgridled (Jul 3, 2016)

I wouldn't sleep well.


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## HKJ (Jul 3, 2016)

Husker said:


> Would it safe to let Panasonic-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-3500mAh-10A-18650 batteries charge overnight?




I do that fairly often.


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## Husker (Jul 3, 2016)

Offgridled said:


> I wouldn't sleep well.





HKJ said:


> I do that fairly often.



Thank-U, for quick response.


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## Dr. Mario (Jul 3, 2016)

Personally I don't do that with bare cells, even though I will admit I do that with my smartphone(s), it's also to recalibrate the smart BMS (battery management system) in it so it doesn't go down fast and hard due to confusion in battery state of charge.

What you want to do is up to you but I'd recommend to check to make sure the battery charger is smart enough (ie. contains an actual microcontroller chip) to hold off recharging process once the battery is full so you don't accidentally overcharge the battery - like this charger (I have Xtar VP2 Plus Master and I trust it enough). Lithium-ion cells like to go unstable once overcharged too far (which can happen with dumb chargers, particularly the questionable Chinese clones).


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## Husker (Jul 3, 2016)

Dr. Mario said:


> Personally I don't do that with bare cells, even though I will admit I do that with my smartphone(s), it's also to recalibrate the smart BMS (battery management system) in it so it doesn't go down fast and hard due to confusion in battery state of charge.
> 
> What you want to do is up to you but I'd recommend to check to make sure the battery charger is smart enough (ie. contains an actual microcontroller chip) to hold off recharging process once the battery is full so you don't accidentally overcharge the battery - like this charger (I have Xtar VP2 Plus Master and I trust it enough). Lithium-ion cells like to go unstable once overcharged too far (which can happen with dumb chargers, particularly the questionable Chinese clones).



How do I determine if mine is a Chinese Clone?


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## ven (Jul 3, 2016)

HKJ said:


> I do that fairly often.




:tsk:









So do i sometimes...............on a lower rate and usually left for 6hrs or so

We are bad a55es


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## HKJ (Jul 3, 2016)

ven said:


> :tsk:



As long as you uses a good charger and good batteries, the risk is fairly minimal.


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## Dr. Mario (Jul 4, 2016)

Husker said:


> How do I determine if mine is a Chinese Clone?



It may not be a simple answer (as in you can never judge the book by its cover), but here goes; you may have to monitor the terminal voltage nearing completed charging cycle with DMM connected to the battery in the charger (be it wire or metal strip connected to test lead). If the charger has USB port, and you have inexpensive USB multimeter, use that for input current measurement - ampere should drop down to 200 milliamp (mA) or lower before a decent charger stops charging the cell. Monitor voltage - it will usually be 4.2 to 4.4 Volts while charging, and will quickly drop to 4.2 Volts (it should be 4.2 Volts, not higher).

If it's SO cheap (like $5 or so), I'd be wary as it's usually dumb charger - you will have to do testing on your part to be sure you can trust it - if you can't trust it while testing it, there's how-to so you can make a dummy Lithium-ion battery on Google to test it, if you're handy with soldering iron. It's rare to find $5 software-defined chargers (as they're usually bulk-purchased, ie. group buys). The software-defined charger is usually $15 or more (due to price of simple microcontroller which may or may not matter - most ARM microcontrollers are usually under $5 anyways - it's also the charging circuit that's a bit complex, so it costs a bit).


----------



## Gauss163 (Jul 4, 2016)

Husker said:


> Would it be safe to let Panasonic-Sanyo-NCR18650GA-3500mAh-10A-18650 batteries charge overnight?



It is not wise to charge Li-ion cells unattended, except if those cells are components of a complete professionally designed battery subsystem (e.g. laptop batteries which have multiple levels of failsafe protection implemented). The more you do so the more you risk an uncontrolled fire, such as this hobby shop that burned down when the owner stepped away for 10 minutes while some packs were charging.


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## Husker (Jul 5, 2016)

ven said:


> So do i sometimes...............on a lower rate and usually left for 6hrs or so



The charger has 0.25-0.5-1.0 Current settings. Is it better to charge an 18650 unprotected @ 0.25 instead of 1.0....I'm guessing it's better on the battery if ya have the time and can monitor the charger...I know it was best to charge a car battery at lower current but what about these-->:thinking:


----------



## Husker (Jul 5, 2016)

Dr. Mario said:


> It may not be a simple answer (as in you can never judge the book by its cover), but here goes; you may have to monitor the terminal voltage nearing completed charging cycle with DMM connected to the battery in the charger (be it wire or metal strip connected to test lead). If the charger has USB port, and you have inexpensive USB multimeter, use that for input current measurement - ampere should drop down to 200 milliamp (mA) or lower before a decent charger stops charging the cell. Monitor voltage - it will usually be 4.2 to 4.4 Volts while charging, and will quickly drop to 4.2 Volts (it should be 4.2 Volts, not higher).
> 
> If it's SO cheap (like $5 or so), I'd be wary as it's usually dumb charger - you will have to do testing on your part to be sure you can trust it - if you can't trust it while testing it, there's how-to so you can make a dummy Lithium-ion battery on Google to test it, if you're handy with soldering iron. It's rare to find $5 software-defined chargers (as they're usually bulk-purchased, ie. group buys). The software-defined charger is usually $15 or more (due to price of simple microcontroller which may or may not matter - most ARM microcontrollers are usually under $5 anyways - it's also the charging circuit that's a bit complex, so it costs a bit).



Thanks...What is DMM?...I'm up for trying this just so I know what I have.


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## RI Chevy (Jul 5, 2016)

Digital multi meter


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## Husker (Jul 5, 2016)

Gauss163 said:


> It is not wise to charge Li-ion cells unattended, except if those cells are components of a complete professionally designed battery subsystem (e.g. laptop batteries which have multiple levels of failsafe protection implemented). The more you do so the more you risk an uncontrolled fire, such as this hobby shop that burned down when the owner stepped away for 10 minutes while some packs were charging.



So, soon as the battery gets to 4.2 on the charger get it off or risk damage to it or other things...Thanks for the Tip.


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## ven (Jul 5, 2016)

Husker said:


> The charger has 0.25-0.5-1.0 Current settings. Is it better to charge an 18650 unprotected @ 0.25 instead of 1.0....I'm guessing it's better on the battery if ya have the time and can monitor the charger...I know it was best to charge a car battery at lower current but what about these-->:thinking:



No it's not better really with all things considered . I tend to use 1a per cell generally , if I am charging my vape cells I use the 1.5a (on capable chargers not this one)which is still perfectly fine . 

0.25a is too low and slow, that setting is good for smaller cells like 10440 to name one, some even use that setting as a gentle charge for 16340's and 14500's. I prefer the 0.5a rate for those types.

So I would advise the 1a rate on the vp1 for your 18650 cells. Not too harsh, will charge in a respectable time.

Monitoring can be over kill on every charge, with new gathers intend to test the voltage before and after a few times. I will then leave it in the charger for sometimes a few hours and again check the voltage. This tells me it is not trickle charging the cell. Of course anything can fail, so periodic checks are always a good practice to get into. Call it a calibration check!


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## ven (Jul 5, 2016)

Husker said:


> So, soon as the battery gets to 4.2 on the charger get it off or risk damage to it or other things...Thanks for the Tip.



In real life it's unrealistic to be there every time waiting and watching for it to temrinate the charge. If it makes you feel more confident check once terminated . Check the voltage, place back in fully charged, maybe leave for 30m and check voltage again. This should prove that the charge has terminated, bare in mind the charger specs usually are + or - 0.05v so 4.15v - 4.25v is in spec ! Closer to the 4.25v every charge will take a few cycles of the cell life, although again in real life you won't notice years on in use. IMO anyway


----------



## Husker (Jul 5, 2016)

ven said:


> No it's not better really with all things considered . I tend to use 1a per cell generally , if I am charging my vape cells I use the 1.5a (on capable chargers not this one)which is still perfectly fine .
> 
> 0.25a is too low and slow, that setting is good for smaller cells like 10440 to name one, some even use that setting as a gentle charge for 16340's and 14500's. I prefer the 0.5a rate for those types.
> 
> ...





ven said:


> In real life it's unrealistic to be there every time waiting and watching for it to temrinate the charge. If it makes you feel more confident check once terminated . Check the voltage, place back in fully charged, maybe leave for 30m and check voltage again. This should prove that the charge has terminated, bare in mind the charger specs usually are + or - 0.05v so 4.15v - 4.25v is in spec ! Closer to the 4.25v every charge will take a few cycles of the cell life, although again in real life you won't notice years on in use. IMO anyway



This is the information I needed...Thank-U Very Much-->:twothumbs


----------



## Gauss163 (Jul 5, 2016)

Husker said:


> So, soon as the battery gets to 4.2 on the charger get it off or risk damage to it or other things...Thanks for the Tip.



No, that was not the point at all. Rather, the point of always charging attended is that if anything goes wrong then then you will probably quickly notice it and will have the opportunity to manage it before it gets out of control (e.g. before it turns into a raging inferno such as the above-linked hobby shop fire). This is impossible if no one is nearby to notice the failure.


----------



## Gauss163 (Jul 5, 2016)

ven said:


> No it's not better really with all things considered . I tend to use 1a per cell generally , if I am charging my vape cells I use the 1.5a (on capable chargers not this one)which is still perfectly fine.



But slower charging is always better for the health of the cell. Too fast charging is one of the major factors in cell degradation.



ven said:


> Monitoring can be over kill on every charge...



One should never charge loose cells unattended in consumer-grade chargers. If anything goes wrong you have a nontrivial risk of a serious fire, whereas that risk is almost completely eliminated if someone is nearby to manage any failures.


----------



## ven (Jul 5, 2016)

Gauss163 said:


> But slower charging is always better for the health of the cell. Too fast charging is one of the major factors in cell degradation.
> 
> 
> 
> One should never charge loose cells unattended in consumer-grade chargers. If anything goes wrong you have a nontrivial risk of a serious fire, whereas that risk is almost completely eliminated if someone is nearby to manage any failures.




1a is not too fast charging though, 0.25a is ridiculously slow to charge at that rate. Why anyone would want to charge a cell over probably 10hrs+ is beyond me.....Not as if it degrades noticeably , not as if they are expensive either. Have to be realistic here and 0.25a is not IMO.

Agree, however most people have a life and have better things to do than sit watching a charger for 3hrs.....or at least I would like to think they do :laughing: Your an intelligent man mr gauss, you know far more imtrecate details on chemistry and charging than me......and it will stay that way . But again we have to be realistic, if you know your equipment and have tested it(yes anything can fail, what happens if I fall down the stairs and break my neck! which is far more likely to happen in the home , trips/falls kill millions each year in the home). I digress, my point is just simple, use common sense, test your equipment and stay in your comfort zone. Don't take uneccsesaty risks, depending on circumstances, leaving a charger that's trusted for a short period is not critical . 

If someone wants to count charge cycles, note down every voltage each time, see if they only get 754 part cycles instead of 766, by using 0.5a instead of 1a then great for them, I have hair to wash :laughing: ........ok I don't have much hair .


----------



## ven (Jul 5, 2016)

No reply from mr gauss yet......is he checking his charger voltages 



Kidding of course as I know mr gauss likes the last word  and its vens bed time anyway!


----------



## sidecross (Jul 5, 2016)

I charge all my batteries in a spare room with a 'fire alarm' about 12" above the chargers; i am always present in the house during battery charging. 

I charge 18650 at 1 amp and 26650 at 2 amps. It is worth mentioning that it is good practice to check exterior of battery for wear and cracks on the cell's wrapper and other components. 

As an aside, one reason I do not like protected batteries is the lack of an easy check and test of the 'protection circuit'. To assume the protection circuit is functional seems to me no difference than charging batteries unattended.

The best safety method is a fully functioning human being with good information and judgement. :thumbsup:


----------



## Gauss163 (Jul 5, 2016)

ven said:


> If someone wants to count charge cycles, note down every voltage each time, see if they only get 754 part cycles instead of 766, by using 0.5a instead of 1a then great for them...



The cycle life loss can be much more dramatic. If you charge too fast you can decrease your cycle life by a factor of 10 or more. We wouldn't be making such a big fuss about that if it was only a trivial difference. Not to mention that very fast charging also is less safe.


----------



## ven (Jul 6, 2016)

Agree , but that is very fast charging which for me is 3a or more. Even 2a on an INR (take a 25r for one example) is not crazy high. 

I will say again 1a is perfectly fine and certainly not a too high or fast charge rate on the vp1. Fast charge rates from manufacturers that I have seen , tend to be between 3-4a (as a max)and that to me is a fast charge and no doubt reduce the cycle life of that cell. I am sure many who change cells frequent will not be over concerned about fast charging their cell for convenience , then recycling the cell every 6month. We are falking a few dollars here, not a huge investment . Decent charger, decent cells from reputable shops, not fire cells with 700mah at 2a on an opus . The cells are very hardy and will take much more abuse than we throw at them . By that I in no way imply to abuse them or not take care! 

I agree mr gauss , my point is just being realistic about it. 1a is just a moderate rate, I charge my INR vape cells at a meagre 1.5a and I have not noticed any less vape time over 6 months . These cells are rotated and used daily, cost here in the UK around £10 for 2. There is no way I am going out of my way, waiting twice the time to finish topping the cell up to save 10%. 300 full cycles, maybe 700 part cycles or 630 part cycles. I have no problems with anyone who has this as a concern, their choice but to me it's 100% irrelevant to my life style, uses and cost. 

On the vp1



My daily work use vp1 which tops my pany BD's from usually 3.9v to 4.2v every day mon to fri , ready for some triple nichia goodness to make jobs easier on the eye.


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