# Looking for a small headlight with more throw



## BIGaudioDYNOMITE (Feb 1, 2006)

Yesterday I went running with my Petzl Tactikka plus and I needed a lot more throw to look further ahead. Now I am looking for an alternative but I would like to keep the small form factor and either AA or AAA batteries.

Looking forward to your answers.


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## UltraRunner (Feb 1, 2006)

I use a Petzl Myo XP, 3 AA's and love it. I run night trails and ultra's with it and is has great throw.

Others like the Princeton Tec Apex LED Headlamp, 4 AA's.

For what it's worth, I always carry a backup handheld, currently a Gerber LX 3 Tactical. Only turn that on for really bad weather (fog) or tricky route finding.

GSB


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## Flying Turtle (Feb 1, 2006)

Check out the River Rock 2 AAA headlamp at Target. It's $15 and has high and low modes. Don't really know if it would be an improvement, but it's a nice little lamp for the money. Some of the review sites might help.

Geoff


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## ACMarina (Feb 1, 2006)

What kind of application are you using a headlamp for?


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## greenLED (Feb 1, 2006)

ACMarina beat me to it. 

Camping, running, hunting?
Long runtime important?
Size matters?

If you really want throw you'll need an incan headlamp. There are a couple of nice "hybrids" (incan/LED) available.


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## mrme (Feb 1, 2006)

For running, I would definitely get something with as little weight on the front as possible and a top strap. That would almost certainly mean a rear battery compartment. 

If you are running on roadways, an LED has that blue tint that gets noticed. However, you are cometing with vehicle headlights and no headlamp can ever keep up. There is no such thing as night vision if you see high power lights anywhere in your field of vision, so go for power (not generally a good idea with headlamps). 

PrincetonTec recently came out with a 3 watt LED headlamp that you might consider. I think it is called the Apex. 
The Myo Xp might be worth considering, but its top strap is pretty lame. 

I generally prefer incadescents for higher power, so I don't own any of the lights mentioned above. If you are running in the woods, you should seriously consider a regulated incadescent. The loss of depth perception and glare you get from LEDs are not problems when running along a road, so a high power LED would work fine there.

Good luck.


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## BIGaudioDYNOMITE (Feb 1, 2006)

*Application*

My applications vary; Camping, running and around the house. Mrme hit the nail on the head with the loss of depth perception, and I think a regulated incadescent might be the way to go. If I would want to keep the small and light form factor what would be the best options?


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## k1_ (Feb 2, 2006)

On the depth-perception issue, one thing I've noticed is that it seems to have more to do with the beam originating around your eyes, and less to do with color (LED vs. incan).

An easy and cheap way to enhance depth perception when you run in dark places is to wear a Tikka or other cheap LED headlamp as a belt. You'll probably still want something on your head to see where you're looking, but the light emanating from your belly button helps a lot by creating shadows on bumpy stuff.

Yeah, I run in the dark a lot.
k1


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## BIGaudioDYNOMITE (Feb 3, 2006)

*Great tip*

Thanks K1 that is a great tip, I am definetly going to try that!


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## ggb (Feb 4, 2006)

Interesting thread!

I have read with much interest in particular K1.

I run in the dark a lot in this season, and I run a lot in the wood, in this days with snow on the trails too!

I'm testing some headlamps for this use, *PT EOS*, *Petzl Myolite 3*, *Petzl Tikka Plus* (newer, + 80% brighter), and, in this days, latest purchase, *Petzl Tikka XP*.

In wood it's important to see little thinks on the trail, example a root, stones under the leafs, and other thinks, this for not stumbling, for this reason a good light quality is useful, more than the powerful.
For me it's important also a beam not too much narrow, for example, if there is a tree down (or a big limb) in the middle of the trail and you are running, is more useful a wide beam rather than a narrow beam, because you see in less time were you pass.

Sometimes I run in large trails, but other times I run in little little trails, or off trail, and these points are much important.

I hope you understand all... with my poor English!!! 

*PT EOS* has the best light quality between my headlamps, the only problem is its narrow beam, but I will change soon stock optic with IMS 17mm reflector.

*Petzl Myolite 3*, the weight is more high than other my headlamps, but its weight is good for a hybrid headlamps, a benefit is than if you use long beam there is not a little time limit, like, for example, Myo XP (20 seconds), but I prefer lamps more lightweight for running.
For me this lamp is good for hiking.
One note: a strange view effect there is when I switch from led light to halogen light after a long time with led light, this halogen light is much more depth, but is yellow, the first sensation is than it's less bright, however after few seconds my eyes adapts to this light and I see very well. 

*Petzl Tikka Plus* is a good headlamp for running, the quality light is not the best, it's little bluish, but the eyes adapts fast to this light.
This lamp is lightweight, its beam is very wide (I like this feature), if there isn't need of depth view this is a good headlamp for running and it has great autonomy.
Usually I use medium setting, it's enough for most situations, high occasionally, and low when I run on main roads or... on the snow! (for snow refraction) 

*Petzl Tikka XP*, for me this lamp is very adaptable to many situations, I like diffuser use, occasionally boost mode is useful, its light quality is less good than EOS quality light, but it's a good lamp for general purpose!
Its features are like Petzl Myo XP, less powerful, but more lightweight, so don't need top strap like Myo!
Its waterproofing is not like EOS, EOS is very good in this feature, but it is already good!
I'm testing this headlamps, I will write my personal impressions. 

Other than these headlamps I have two other, an older Petz Zoom (companion of 1000 adventures! But now it "rests" in my car, for emergency), great lamp but today too heavy and with poor autonomy, and another anonymous led headlamp, low cost, but low quality! (in particular poor light quality). 
It has been a mistaken purchase!

Bye 
Luigi


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## dfred (Feb 4, 2006)

k1_ said:


> On the depth-perception issue, one thing I've noticed is that it seems to have more to do with the beam originating around your eyes, and less to do with color (LED vs. incan).
> 
> An easy and cheap way to enhance depth perception when you run in dark places is to wear a Tikka or other cheap LED headlamp as a belt. You'll probably still want something on your head to see where you're looking, but the light emanating from your belly button helps a lot by creating shadows on bumpy stuff.



That's an interesting observation. I often wear small headlamps "upside down" around my neck for reading, cooking, or other more sedentary activities. I find it more comfortable not to have the pressure of the strap around the head when it's not needed. And perhaps related to your comments about depth-perception, I find reading with a headlamp around my neck easier on my eyes for some reason. Perhaps there's less glare off the paper when the light comes at more of an angle to the viewing axis.





ggb said:


> I hope you understand all... with my poor English!!!



Your English is quite good, thanks for taking the time to post your impressions of all these headlamps! You apparently have a nice collection going. 

The only word I'm thinking you might be misusing is "autonomy" . When you say a light has good autonomy, do you mean that it is good enough to use with no other lights? That is the closest to the meaning of the word autonomy. Or do you mean that it is well-designed and has good ergonomics?


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## hank_moon (Feb 4, 2006)

autonomy = runtime (basically)


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## JonSidneyB (Feb 5, 2006)

Hmmm, 

Thats the first explanation of wanting throw in a headlamp that made sence to me. 

I have found that things seemed to work best with a flood for a head lamp and if you need throw, have it in the handheld.

I do understand what you are saying here. I noticed this thread because I have seem many people want a headlamp reach further but when out in the wild the quickly appreciate flood. I guess rules of thumb do not always fit.


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## ggb (Feb 5, 2006)

*My English errors and... Tikka XP test!*



hank_moon said:


> autonomy = runtime (basically)



Thanks Hank_moon!  

@Dfred: The meaning is this, "runtime", I have translated exactly like I say in italian (autonomia -> autonomy), and this is an error!  
I'm sorry!

Yesterday I have tested my Tikka XP while a run, I have run in wood for about one hour and twenty minutes, in the dark, the conditions were much difficult for snow, ice, mud, a lot limbs down, it was first hard test for my Tikka XP, and... result is very good!

Its light is less white than EOS, but I see trail colors good, without diffuser beam is depth about that of EOS, diffuser is very good, but lose little brightness, so brightness with diffuser is equivalent to a lower level without diffuser, I hope you understand me...
Example: brightness without diffuser and in medium mode, is equivalent to brightness with diffuser in high mode, ok?

I have used all modes of this lamp, and they are useful in much different situations.

In main trails I have used low mode without diffuser, in medium trails I have used medium mode, with or without diffuser (but if I use diffuser I must switch on high mode), in little trails or off trail, or there were obstacles in trail, I have used high mode, with or without diffuser.

Brightness whitout diffuser in low mode is more than EOS brightness in low mode, in medium mode is about equivalent to EOS in medium mode, and in high mode EOS is best. 

I can combine three modes (or four modes, with boost mode, in this mode without diffuser the beam is very depth, with diffuser you illuminate an entire dark parking!) with or without diffuser use, these combinations are very useful.

Hard side of test has been when for too mud I have had to pass off trail, in wood where there were many limbs down, many stump of trees cut, and many of this things under the leafs, in this situation I have used high mode, with and without diffuser, result has been very good!

Another hard test has been running on the snow in the trails, there were many tracks, this tracks in the snow are ice holes, but snow around the tracks is more soft, hard test for my feet and my ankles, in this case is much important to see well where are or where are not the hole tracks!

Tikka XP has been behaved very well in this situation too! 

I have used boost mode too, very bright, it is only 20 seconds, but it is enough for to see where you want to go.

My only doubt if this: the gear in rear of lamp have 10 positions for lamp inclination, but for running I must to use the ninth position and after tenth position it go out from the gear, this is for open the lamp and to change the cells, but if you are not careful this is pestering, however with the tenth position you illuminate very close. 

This headlamps fulfill my expectations, EOS have best light quality than this, Myolite 3 have more beam depth (with halogen bulb), Tikka Plus have best wide beam, more bright than Tikka XP beam with diffuser, but... if I must choose only one lamp from all my headlamps, I choose Tikka XP!

Ok, if there is EOS with diffuser and boost mode I choose EOS, but... there is not, so I choose Tikka XP!

Bye 

PS: you tell me if there are other my translation errors please, or you don't understand...


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## Hoghead (Feb 5, 2006)

ggb

Thank you! Your posts are very informative.


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## ggb (Feb 5, 2006)

Hoghead said:


> ggb
> 
> Thank you! Your posts are very informative.



Thanks Hoghead! 

I will write my impressions about EOS with IMS 17mm reflector, using this lamp while night trail running.

Bye


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## dfred (Feb 5, 2006)

*Re: My English errors and... Tikka XP test!*



ggb said:


> Thanks Hank_moon!
> 
> @Dfred: The meaning is this, "runtime", I have translated exactly like I say in italian (autonomia -> autonomy), and this is an error!
> I'm sorry!



Ah... I can see how the use of "autonomia" for "runtime" in Italian does have some relation to the word "autonomy" in English. In English it is strange to say an inanimate object has autonomy, but okay to say something like: a light with good runtime gives the person using it more autonomy.

No apology needed... With words derived from so many different languages, English can be complicated even for native speakers.

I also agree that your posts are both understandable and informative, thanks!


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## kiwi hunter (Feb 5, 2006)

Thanks gbb for your tikka XP summary. :rock:

I have been going nuts lately trying to decide on which small headlight to carry as well, and I think I am getting to brain overload as just when I think I have it sorted - an updated product comes along eg. the new PT Quad or now the petzl zipkas with new super bright LED

I think the tikka XP will likely be the 'one' as its flexibility is probably its best strength. The ability to diffuse the light for close up work, the ability to boost for a quick view down a track is normally all I need, plus the other modes for normal travel, small form factor, and so on. If you have to have ONE, then I don't think you can beat this combination. 

I still have reservations about its lack of power regulation as seen in the www.flashlightreviews.com, as its normal discharge curve means that at lot of its inital power is lost relatively quickly....down to 75% after less than an hour...but thats life. Tikka XP with reg must be the one (but again, some people are happy without)

This has been a good thread by all.

:thanks:


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## k1_ (Feb 6, 2006)

Since we started out talking about more throw, I thought I'd share an experience with my new headlamp. It's a 4W LED light from Vicious Power, and a bit pricey compared to the XPs and Tikkas.

I was out on an expedition this past weekend, mtn biking and hiking all night long. I ran the headlamp off a set of 4 lithium AA primaries, pretty much on full power the whole night.

But the most amazing thing was the power of the light on high. A lot of the time I kept the light on low because that was enough light for what we were doing, but in a couple situations where we were trying to find trailheads (or lost trails...) I would fire it up to high and light up the forest around us.

Granted, it ain't like the 100W hotwires some of the other guys talk about, but at 80g for the lamp and another 100g or so for the batteries, this thing was amazing.

k1


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## bonhomme (Feb 7, 2006)

I have the streamlight argo HP.
I replaced the luxeon I side emitter with a luxIII from a nuwai QIII: the sidespill (i think this the word for flood?) is good for walking on the low setting, on the high setting: wow!
The trow (how far it shines?) is better than my QIII!
Good regulated for +-4h on high on 2 123Acells.

Sorry for the poor english.
Greetings Marc


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## jar3ds (Feb 9, 2006)

the argo HP can run on 17650 li-ions too... i think if you need a cheap high output - long life headlamp the argo HP is a good buy!


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## ggb (Feb 11, 2006)

Thank for appreciated comments to my tests explanation! 

@Dfred:

"Autonomy" in Italian is similar to "autonomy" in English, but it's for inanimate objects too, for example I can say "I don't need money of my parents, I have my money autonomy!" (is this phrase right in English?), but I say also "My car autonomy, with fuel in its tank, is long..." (for fuel price in Italy this is a... very good quality for a car!!!  ), do you understand me? 

Ok, no apology! 

@Kiwi hunter:

I think than Petzl products are very good, but if I must choose between Tikka Plus and PT Quad, I prefer Quad, this lamp is more waterproof, but... for now PT have not a headlamp like Tikka XP, a lamp for many purposes, but lightweight (there is Apex, very good lamp, but it is not lightweight!).
However for now I have not tested waterproofness of my Tikka XP, but seem good, best of Tikka Plus for example, not like PT EOS, but already good!

If I test this lamp under the rain, after I write my impressions here.

For discharge curve I have read flashlightreviews too, but I've used my Tikka XP, for now, for about 4 hours, in 3 runs, temperature from (about) 5° C to -2° C, but I don't see a significant light decrease, perhaps my eyes has adapted to light decrease, but, when I'm running, trails viewer is still good...

However I love always more this little headlamp! 

Yesterday evening I have made last run, I run in trails near a river (Ticino river, at the end of Maggiore Lake in north-west side of Italy), I have looked an animal, perhaps a dog (wild dog? I don't think a wolf!!!), and boost mode is useful in these situation, but it (for an animal is right "he" or "it"?) is run far fastly, and I have not seen good it, in those woods there are many boars too, I have seen only a great dark animal, but, I repeat, boost mode has been very useful!
(Ok, I run always with a little pepper spray and a little penknife in my pockets, I apply a old Latin proverb: _"si vis pacem para bellum"_, "if you want the peace... prepare the war"!  ) 

This lamp is now "my official headlamp", soon I will use it for hiking in mountain, in particular in a wilderness area in Italy, is this, it's a national park, I love this area, there are mountains on the borders and there is many vegetation in the center, seem like to be in... a little rainforest (but with our vegetation), but in a normal trekking, the use of a headlamps is not intensive, usually the use is only for little movements in the dark, I walk in the daylight and not in the night, so headlight usually is only for soft purposes, but this year I have some projects, one is with my friend Oliviero Bellinzani, a mountain climber without a leg, two Oliviero's photos (res. 1024x768): one and two, and in this are me and Oliviero on the top of Torrone di Nav (2832 mt), in Italian side of Switzerland (to be more precise, in the north of Canton Ticino, or, in English, "Ticino Canton"), this last photo is a shot made with self-timer.

With Oliviero, we want made a long trail (if "made" is not right for this meaning, I mean "made the trail" like "walking in the trail", if this is a mistake, you say to me this thing, please...  ) , in spring or in autumn (in summer is too warm!), it's the Sentiero Bove, in total 24 hours of walking, 4700 mt of total height difference, more than 10 mountain tops, some pieces of this trail are dangerous.
Mountain guidebook say the time for this trail is 3 days, but we want made it in 2 days, it's not the first time than a man made this trail in 2 days, but... it's the first time than a man without a leg made this trail in 2 days!!!

For this reason, we will walk in early morning, in the darkness, before sunrise, the path is very difficult and dangerous, and in these initial sides of the path I think than a good headlamps, but lightweight, is very important!

Ok, I wrote a lot, as usual I hope that all is understandable!

Bye!


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## dfred (Feb 13, 2006)

ggb said:


> @Dfred:
> 
> "Autonomy" in Italian is similar to "autonomy" in English, but it's for inanimate objects too, for example I can say "I don't need money of my parents, I have my money autonomy!" (is this phrase right in English?), but I say also "My car autonomy, with fuel in its tank, is long..." (for fuel price in Italy this is a... very good quality for a car!!!  ), do you understand me?
> 
> Ok, no apology!



Yes, I agree the words are very much related. Regarding the phrase about money... In English one might say monetary autonomy or financial autonomy instead of money autonomy. Basically it is more proper to use an adjective (monetary or financial) rather than a noun (money) to describe the type of autonomy. But, as I said before, your English is perfectly understandable. If you keep posting such long and informative messages I'm sure it will continue to improve! 

It looks like you live in a very beautiful area. Those climbing/hiking pictures are great, thanks for posting them. I've done a lot of hiking and a little climbing -- and I'm very impressed with your climbing partner Oliviero! Next time I'm feeling tired on a hike, I'll think of him!


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## recon3295 (Apr 2, 2013)

I have had no trouble with the "throw" on my Tikka Plus 2. I do a lot of night running and hiking and this light has never disappointed me.


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## DIΩDΣ (Apr 4, 2013)

Recon brought this thread back from the grave... Think the discussion is a bit out of date.


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