# DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO >50,000 lux @ 1 meter!



## ma_sha1 (May 3, 2010)

I've being wanting to make another SST-90 with higher drive current than IMR 26650 DD, which only gave me 4-5A. 
Tired of waiting for 9A CC driver, I decided to give the 4xAA a try after seeing overdog got 9A.

The goal is a thrower, A couple of things & specs: 

1, Use 4xEneloop AA to DD SST-90, heard good things from overdog build
2, Make it 1.5D, incase I want to get longer run time, it'll fit IMR 26650 for DD.
3, Use Mag Rebel SMO deep reflector, heard good things from Techjunkie builds
4, DIY Mag 1.5D by cutting from the tail & re-joint the body using hand tools. This way, no need to re-locate 
the switch & the thread is intact, so no need to re-thread the mag as I can't do that without a lache. 
This has never been done before, not that I am aware of at least. 

I've done a few mag cut down from the switch end when no focus is needed: 
(https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/254481)
but in this case, the longer Rebel SMO reflector would need to retain the mag focus ability to find the 
best focal point, so I needed a new way to cut the mag down without messing with the top half. 

I don't have a lot of time, so I am doing this by phase, may take a few weeks. 

*Phase I. Mag 2D cut-down to make 1.5D Quard Bored Host. *

Mark the cutting location on 2D mag(Left), Right = Mag 1.5D 1185 as control.






First cut, pretty rough around the edges:





To bore out one end, I taped my drill to constant on, tape marked the depth on the grinder & went at it:





This only took 20 min, actually much easier than I thought:





Now, you want to make sure it's a bit taller, as the next step is to 
grind down the tail end & inserted into the enlarged body tube. 





The finished host, The grinding of the end & inserting tail end to the body was much harder than I anticipated 
to make a clean connection. Due to the large diameter, I could not grind the tail end perfectly. 
There's a visible scar that i could not get rid off upon joining the two sections. 

So I decided to allow the joint to have a small gap, then glued an GITD O-ring in the gap to 
cover up the flaws: 






Didn't have a picture here but I also Quad bored the tube before re-join the tail section, 
(I broke a round 10mm diameter metal file in half, stick it into the drill to do the quard bore)
so that I could insert the 4xAA DEFT battery holder (left over from the MagDEFT project) with 4xEneloop AAs. 

This host is the one on the right, I felt bad that I had to cover-up the joint with an o-ring, 
so I decided to dress-up the DIY body with the fancy FM head. 

This was all I could finish so far, hopefully, I have more time this coming weekend. 
can't wait to get a focusable SST-90 into the Mag Rebel SMO deep reflector. 

Stay-tuned.


*Phase II. 1x26650 DD set-up with Rebel SMO beam shots. *

First, solder up with 20G Teflon wire & then Arctic Silver glue down to the brightlumen's SST-90 magD heat sink. 
To make the heat transfer really really well & the actic silver as thin as possible, I pressed the LED down while curing.
I grind off the rim so that that heat sink could go inside the tube. 






I also rind off the bottom "skirt" of the heatsink, because the heat sink couldn't sit low enough 
with the "skirt" on to achieve optimal focus. There's is no room for any driver, as the reflector is deep & 
the heat sink is long, when I press it in for optimal focus, the skirtless heat sink is pretty much sitting on 
top the switch, with minimal space just enough to fold the wires. 





This will give you an idea how deep the heat sink has to go in, it's about half of an inch! 





I found out that the optimal focus point is at the bottom of the hole, the heat sink led post does not 
go into the hole. But it's necessary to open the hole up to allow the post go in first before tighten the 
reflector. This way, you can back-out the led to focus point but the reflector has been perfectly centered. 









I never got any luck with getting a natually low Vf SST-90, this is no exception,
I tested my SST-90 glued to heat sink with IMR 26,650 & AW IMR 26,500, in both cases,
I got about 3.5A. WTF? This is not acceptable, as there's no way I could get up to 9A with 4AA
with a high Vf SST-90.

*Electrical Shock Therapy** to lower Vf.*

It's time to take some risk, I decided to take the matter into my own hands to lower the lED Vf. I remember seeing a post by Techjunkie that his SST-90 vf dropped quite a bit after accidentally over shot with current into the 14Amp range. 

I rigged up two of my 3V LPFe04 26,650 to shock the LED while watching the Amp.
The battery was at 3.1V each, so the shock is conducted at 6.2V Direct Drive.

I gave it 3 short busts of 10 sec. 10 sec & 20 sec, while allowing it to cool in between. 
The shock current went through the LED was 15 Amp. 







Wola, it worked! 
The SST-90 Vf was lowered & I am now getting 5 Amp with IMR 26650 4.1V DD. 
This is the condition (IMR 26,650 at 4.1V-4.0v) that the following beam shots vs. Mag 85 were conducted,
which runs on 3x17670 @ 4.1V.





At 5 Amp, Auto Exposure Point & Shoot








Beam shots are indoor at about 18ft, manual step down to super low exposure, 
1/1000, F2.6. ISO400. mag 85:






Step down to super low exposure, 
1/1000, F2.6. ISO400. SST-90 Mag Rebel Deep SMO IMR 26650 DD, 5 Amp:
It has a very tight hot spot, smaller than Mag85 hotspot & also has a very bright corona around it. 
The small hot spot is more obvious in person than in the picture.
I was amaze at how tight the beam is as well as how nice the beam is, without OP,
it doesn't need OP treatment at all, that's 30% free lumen right there.







Same condition, with the two stacked on top of each other, With the Deep Rebel Mag SMO, 
The SST-90 had already out thrown the Mag 85 using IMR 26,650 DD.







*Summary of Phase II:*

Beating the Mag 85 is no small task. Mag85 is my fav. incan of all time, with a smaller filament, it throw better than 
ROP Hi, mag 5761 as well as FM1909 which put out a lot more lumens but with a large filament. It is the only incan 
hot wire I've kepted as a bench mark for my LED mods. In a previous light I made & Sold : 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/259302

It was a SSR-50 that was driven to 5 Amp, which later was measured by Big C to be >1000 OTF lumens & 
~20,700 Lux @ 1 meter. Look for the one listed: ma_sha1 2C mag with SST-50
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/260659

In the mean time, at the end of my MagDEFT build(https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3367972)m
I measured the Mag85 throw to be 23750 lux @ 1 meter. 

Which means that this SST-90 with the Rebel SMO at 5Amp (out throws the Mag85) will out throw 
my previous SSR-50 at 5Amp (DX OP P7 reflector, which was a darn good reflector already).

Everyone knows that it's much harder to made a big die throw further than a smaller die, the difference made 
here would have to come out from the the Mag Rebel SMO deep reflector, which is nothing short of amazing,
amazing throw with a amazing beam quality. Did I say amazing?


*Phase III. Beef up the DEFT 4xAA holder try to get more AMP.

*Stay tuned, hopefully I get some time on Sunday to do this. The DEFT 4xAA holder is cheaply made,
only gives 2AMP on DD with 4x Eneloop in stock form, will need some serious work to get to the 8-9A range.


Here is the finished battery holder, it took more work than I thought it would, 
I spent half a day on this battery holder conversion & made into an all copper construction, ultra low resistance piece:





With the 4AA in series, the set-up measured 5.65V total. At start-up, the current measured at just over 8Amp, 
but dropping quickly. But the time I got my camera ready & took a picture, it's around 7.7 Amp. 






Curious to see how much improvement over the IMR 26,650 DD, I took out my DX lux meter & measured lux @ 5 meters. 
Then converted back to Lux @ 1 meter for both 26,650 DD & 4AA Eneloop DD.

1.5D Mag SST-90, Rebel SMO IMR 26,650 DD:........................... 5 Meter Lux: 1350:...................1 Meter Lux 33,750
1.5D Mag SST-90, Rebel SMO 4xAA Eneloops DD:....................... 5 Meter Lux: 1800: ..................1 Meter Lux 45,000 

Compares to some of other reflector based throwers I posted previously at the end of MagDEFT thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/268894
1.5D *Mag 1185* 3x17670:.........................................5 Meter Lux: 950;.................... 1 Meter Lux 23750
5xCree WF500 2x18500: ..........................................5 Meter Lux: 1130;....................1 Meter Lux 28250

All I can say is Wow, 45,000 Lux with a big SST-90 & 2" Reflector, that's a real thrower!
Again, DX lux meter tend to read low by 20%-40% depends on who you ask, 
So the real lux of this light driven by fresh 4xAA Eneloops is easily over 50,000 lux.


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## Hill (May 4, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*

nice idea cutting from the tail. I've done several mag D cutdowns by the decapitation method, but like your idea since it retains the focusing function and leaves the switch hole intact. 

Another way to cover the joint is to use bicycle inner tube cut to size. It slides on easily since the inside is powder coated, but stretches nicely to fit the mag body and gives great grip. I've done that with all my C and D cell lights. I used it on one mod where I dremmeled the switch hole too big so the rubber boot kept falling out. I just covered it with the grippy and presto - no more issues. Cheap and very functional.


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## ma_sha1 (May 4, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*

Thanks,

This is a learning exp., my first tail cut mag D, gave me some confidence for c mag cuts in the future.


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## Dave 88 (May 5, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*

I would love to see what kind of beam you get with the rebel reflector. 

Right now I have my SST-90 3D mag running with 3 tenergy nimh D cells. I have seen just over 9A on a fresh charge with them. You should get some good #s out of 4AA, just less runtime. 

I am waiting on an aspheric lens and sku 18841 reflector from DX. I want to see how the beam looks with each of those too. I tried to buy the rebel reflector but was told they are not for sale seperate!


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## ma_sha1 (May 5, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*



Dave 88 said:


> I would love to see what kind of beam you get with the rebel reflector.
> 
> Right now I have my SST-90 3D mag running with 3 tenergy nimh D cells. I have seen just over 9A on a fresh charge with them. You should get some good #s out of 4AA, just less runtime.
> 
> I am waiting on an aspheric lens and sku 18841 reflector from DX. I want to see how the beam looks with each of those too. I tried to buy the rebel reflector but was told they are not for sale seperate!



I am surprised that 3D 3.6V could get 9A? What model of amp meter are you using? 
MY 4.2v IMR 26650 & AW IMR 26500 only gave me 4-5A. But you never know, it's a Vf lottery with SST-90. 

Yes, 4AA will be short run time, that's why I cut the host 1.5D instead of 1D, so that I can load up an IMR 26650 to give the light a long run time option. 

As far as rebel reflector, I wish they sell separate too, had to take it out of rebel mag but I used the mag body for MagDEFT mod, so nothing went to waste. 

I believe Techjunkie already got some beam shots on the rebel reflector, looked very nice.


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## Dave 88 (May 5, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*

I have an el-cheapo multimeter from DX XL830L is the # on it. It may be way off but I am kinda hoping that its close enough. I am using some thicker wires to take the readings 14awg to handle the currents. I have also modified the switch a little bit in hopes to lower its resistance. 

The lens and reflector came in today. The lens was a waste. It does focus well but requires the head to be completely unscrewed. As for the aspheric, well thats already been said before. 

As for the Vf of my SST-90 FWIW I got mine from 4sevens

Don't mean to steal your thread

GL with the build

Dave


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## Al Combs (May 7, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*

Very inventive of you to make a homemade 1.5 D like that. Can't wait to see the beamshots from it. Does the Deft battery holder have the B- pickup on the front end? Just wondering if you get electrical continuity through the JB-Weld joint, or by the switch. Another subscribe for me.



ma_sha1 said:


> 1, Use 4xEneloop AA to DD SST-90, heard good things from overdog build


Have you seen the Silverfox NiMH shoot out thread? I mention it because I think it's possible that Eneloops are a little too good for a direct drive setup like this. They put out over 1 volt under a 10 amp load for more than half of the discharge cycle. As one possible alternative, Sanyo's 2700 mAh were at the top of the list for capacity among all the batteries he tested. More importantly, at the 10 amp load they have 0.1 volt less output than the Eneloops. Overdog mentions in post #22 of his 1D thread he's using an "almost cheap" 2500 mAh AA in his setup. The higher capacity cells seem to generally have higher internal resistance.


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## ma_sha1 (May 7, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*



Al Combs said:


> Very inventive of you to make a homemade 1.5 D like that. Can't wait to see the beamshots from it. Does the Deft battery holder have the B- pickup on the front end? Just wondering if you get electrical continuity through the JB-Weld joint, or by the switch. Another subscribe for me.
> 
> Have you seen the Silverfox NiMH shoot out thread? I mention it because I think it's possible that Eneloops are a little too good for a direct drive setup like this. They put out over 1 volt under a 10 amp load for more than half of the discharge cycle. As one possible alternative, Sanyo's 2700 mAh were at the top of the list for capacity among all the batteries he tested. More importantly, at the 10 amp load they have 0.1 volt less output than the Eneloops. Overdog mentions in post #22 of his 1D thread he's using an "almost cheap" 2500 mAh AA in his setup. The higher capacity cells seem to generally have higher internal resistance.



Thanks, I hope to be able to work on it this weekend. The DEFT battery holder have pos. & neg. all on one end, will need to be re-wired so that negative is at bottom, also beef it up with copper plates to replace those thin springs to handle 10A with ease. 

As for eneloop, I am only worried about if not able to go up to 9A,
if I end up with too high of Amp, the stock springs would probably give enough resistance to bring it back, so restraining from excessive "resistance mod" would likely to provide the fine tuning needed.


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## Al Combs (May 8, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*



ma_sha1 said:


> Thanks, I hope to be able to work on it this weekend. The DEFT battery holder have pos. & neg. all on one end, will need to be re-wired so that negative is at bottom, also beef it up with copper plates to replace those thin springs to handle 10A with ease.


So if you rewire the holder, how do you get the current to pass the JB-Weld joint? But on second thought, it seems more likely you made a taper and hammered it together with a block of wood. More details please.



ma_sha1 said:


> As for eneloop, I am only worried about if not able to go up to 9A, if I end up with too high of Amp, the stock springs would probably give enough resistance to bring it back, so restraining from excessive "resistance mod" would likely to provide the fine tuning needed.


It could work the other way to where you randomly get an LED with a vF so high that 4 Eneloops aren't enough. I'm sure you'll monitor the first power-up through your ammeter.


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## ma_sha1 (May 8, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*



Al Combs said:


> So if you rewire the holder, how do you get the current to pass the JB-Weld joint? But on second thought, it seems more likely you made a taper and hammered it together with a block of wood. More details please.
> 
> It could work the other way to where you randomly get an LED with a vF so high that 4 Eneloops aren't enough. I'm sure you'll monitor the first power-up through your ammeter.



I've done enough cut & re-join to have worked out the JB weld trick. 
never spread JB weld all the way around & risk of cutting off the electrical path. In stead, Put JB weld on 3 -4 sections & leave the rest bare, that way, when you press it in, only half of the bare alu. has JB weld.

After cure, apply additional around the inside sim all around, usually there's a small gap, it will not go in deep,
but will seal the sim for water tightness. 

As far as Vf, I am trying out the Trick that Techjunkie discovered, i.e. hit it with super high current in short burst to lower the vf. I have not had luck getting a low Vf SST-90 natually.

I just finished seeting it up with 26,650 DD. Will post to the bottom of Post #1, this way, al the info are in place post. The Deep Rebel SMO is amazing...


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## Al Combs (May 8, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*

Double post :whoopin:


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## ma_sha1 (May 8, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S*

What do you mean double post? 

I edited the same thread, just added additional info to post #1 so that it's easy to read the whole thing vs. look for new updates searching through the thread, is Editing original post considered rule violation? 

:thinking:


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## Noctis (May 8, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut-down Mag 1.5D SST-90 ~2000 Lumens Rebel Mag Deep Reflector for throw*



ma_sha1 said:


> I've done enough cut & re-join to have worked out the JB weld trick.
> never spread JB weld all the way around & risk of cutting off the electrical path. In stead, Put JB weld on 3 -4 sections & leave the rest bare, that way, when you press it in, only half of the bare alu. has JB weld.
> 
> After cure, apply additional around the inside sim all around, usually there's a small gap, it will not go in deep,
> ...


I'm personally tempted to try something like that myself on my Nailbender SST-90 Direct Drive module.

Though that second video Techjunkie made seems to recommend against that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9WaHtmDrFM&feature=response_watch

I'm guessing there's a very real risk of frying the emitter with this method(especially on an emitter not attached to a proper heatsink). It might be less painful on a bare emitter, but I'm not sure I want to completely kill a $65 module for the sake of slightly better draw on just that module alone.

I'm thinking slathering the entire inside of my 6P host with DeOxit Gold would be good for starters, and maybe replacing the tailcap spring with a gold spring later on if I'm still not "seeing the light". Should be good enough if my goal is to only draw 5-6A from an IMR 18650 battery right?

P.S.
Sorry for the hijack.


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## HarryN (May 8, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S*

Hi nice build.

We used to "burn in" leds all of the time to get the Vf down, but it was performed slightly more gently than the electro shock approach.  
We just ran it at the rated drive current for 24 hours and it usually dropped down about as far as it is going to go. It is a lot easier to get an AC drive that will keep up for 24 hours than a DC battery pack version, but at 9 amps - who knows.

I can't argue with success, esp. since that LED has been tested higher before, its just a matter of keeping it from frying a bond wire.


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## Al Combs (May 8, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S*



ma_sha1 said:


> What do you mean double post?


No I didn't mean you. I posted #9 and left the room with the editor I launched the *Quote* window from still open. An hour later I refreshed and saw your post as still being the last. Dummkopf that I am, I thought I remembered posting some other thread.:shakehead Sorry for the confusion.


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## aurum (May 8, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S*



> We just ran it at the rated drive current for 24 hours and it usually dropped down about as far as it is going to go.



Could you describe the heatsinking you've used for the burn in? thx


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## ma_sha1 (May 9, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S*

Finally finished. Read up on the "Phase III", which is at bottom of post #1.
I was able to get 8Amp with 4xEneloops DD. & the Lux is more than 50,000 lux at 1 meter!


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## moviles (May 10, 2010)

nice homemade battery holder







ma_sha1 said:


> *Electrical Shock Therapy** to lower Vf.*
> 
> It's time to take some risk, I decided to take the matter into my own hands to lower the lED Vf. I remember seeing a post by Techjunkie that his SST-90 vf dropped quite a bit after accidentally over shot with current into the 14Amp range.
> 
> ...





 6.2v direct drived with lifepo4?
that therapy has a lot of risk for the led, the high resistance of the wires of your tester have saved the led

please don't try that with thick wires,the current draw will be much higher, I think the led maybe don't will survive :duck::duck::duck:


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## ma_sha1 (May 10, 2010)

moviles said:


> nice homemade battery holder
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, the wire to the alligator clamp were hot to the touch after 20 sec. shock therapy.
Actually, it went as high as 18Amp when I first tried it with 2 battery at 6.5V (I had another pair that was freshly charged up). before I decided to hook up these two that were a bit discharged for "safer" shocking. 

The lifepo4 was rated at 10A max, so I was almost doubling that, but very brief, the battery didn't get hot.


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## Techjunkie (May 10, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> I am surprised that 3D 3.6V could get 9A? What model of amp meter are you using?
> MY 4.2v IMR 26650 & AW IMR 26500 only gave me 4-5A. But you never know, it's a Vf lottery with SST-90.
> 
> Yes, 4AA will be short run time, that's why I cut the host 1.5D instead of 1D, so that I can load up an IMR 26650 to give the light a long run time option.
> ...


 
Post number 8 of my Big Red thread has whitewall beamshot comparisons that include the SST-90 in the Mag Rebel reflector. Running that emitter at a regulated 8.4A in that reflector has to be seen to be believed. It puts every other LED torch that I own to shame, and that's a LOT of lights.

Here's an animated GIF comparing a traditional P7 @ 2.8A in a 53mm MOP reflector to the SST-90 @ 8.4A in the Mag Rebel, and finally the PH7388 incan driven to the edge in a 53mm MOP refelctorj. All shots 50ft from target, ISO400, 2sec, F14, WB5200K:








moviles said:


> nice homemade battery holder
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Completely agreed!



ma_sha1 said:


> Yes, the wire to the alligator clamp were hot to the touch after 20 sec. shock therapy.
> Actually, it went as high as 18Amp when I first tried it with 2 battery at 6.5V (I had another pair that was freshly charged up). before I decided to hook up these two that were a bit discharged for "safer" shocking.
> 
> The lifepo4 was rated at 10A max, so I was almost doubling that, but very brief, the battery didn't get hot.


 
For clarity's sake, I never recommended hitting the LED with that much voltage. I was measuring 14A current draw at a mere 4.2V!

If you continue to run your LED for extended runs at the 7A+ current that you are getting now, I predict that after a few full battery discharge/rechage cycles you will see even higher current draw on a full charge, probably ~9A if your torch's resistance (and your DMM leads resistance) is/are very low. A metal tab and a clamp meter, as in my videos would measure even higher current because that eliminates the additional resistance of the DMM + leads.

Congratulations on your build. I am sure that you will continue to REALLY like it for a very long time.


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## ma_sha1 (May 10, 2010)

Nice beam shots & thanks for your experiments on the Rebel reflector,
def. a winner. As far as 14Amp, I am not recommending either. But to be honest, damaging led has more to do with heat sinking. It went for 18Amp for 10 sec. at first & I didn't even see a hint of blue tint shift, so I suspect that with active cooling, I could probably runs a SST-90 at 14 Amp constant. 

Maybe something later to experiment about, I've just retired another light which had a top bin SSR-90, 
I've been thinking about making it with active cooling lately. 

Yes, I'd love to see this go up to 9A after some use. My meter is the same as BigC, I tried Clamp meter & didn't like 
it, BigC recommended this meter & it's as accurate as fluke according to him.

If I use beefy wires without the tip on this meter,, the amp will go up, but I am not sure it's real, I didn't want inflate the Amps.


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## Al Combs (May 10, 2010)

I find the whole phenomena of the change in Vf very interesting. When I first read Techjunkie's account of this, I checked a DSVNI P7 I've been using for close to a year. It still read 3.28 volts at 2.82 amps. The same exact thing it was a year ago. I've been working on my own SST-90 using DIWdiver's 10 amp linear regulator. I first turned it on through my ammeter with the 500K pot turned all the way to minimum. It read 3.02 volts at 714 ma. With the potentiometer turned to the middle it read 3.61 volts at 4.80 amps. At maximum it's 3.88 volts at 10.25 amps. That's just shy of 40 watts for the LED.:devil: Since the 4 Sanyo 4/5-SubC NiCads I'm using read 4.96 volts under load, the total of the LED and the regulator is actually a tad over 50 watts.:devil::devil:

After playing with it for maybe a half day, it now reads 2.94 volts at the same 714 ma minimum setting and 3.54 volts also at the same 4.80 amps with the dial at the half way point. That's a change of 0.08 & 0.07 volts respectively. Granted it's not much, but it's a total runtime of maybe 20 minutes at different levels. I never did measure the voltage at the original 10.25 amps setting so I don't know how much it might have dropped. I was preoccupied with the current and the heat. I'll have to check it again in a few months to see if it continues to drop.

It does seem to be a peculiarity of Luminus LED's. I wonder why Cree's and SSC's don't exhibit this behavior? Do the burn them in for a few minutes at high power for a failure test? Or is it just a different manufacturing process that prevents it. Either way, I don't really care. This SST-90 is monster bright however they do it.


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## ma_sha1 (May 11, 2010)

Don't know about Cree, but SSC might have something to do with that they bin the Vf & sell by Vf bin.

My wild guess is that in order to bin them, they'll have to stabilize the Vf first, Can't bin the Vf if it changes each time after you test it.

SST/SSR leds aren't sold by Vf bins, might not have gone through the same "Vf stabilization" process, 
but I really wish they did, would be a lot easier for DD use if we could get low Vf bins.


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## HarryN (May 11, 2010)

*Re: DIY Cut Mag 1.5D SST-90 2000 Lumen Rebel Mag Deep SMO Reflector vs. Mag 85 Beam S*



aurum said:


> Could you describe the heatsinking you've used for the burn in? thx



Hi, we used to run them on fairly large heat sinks, so over heating was not an issue. You can do it any way you want, it is just more convenient to have an AC supply, as 24 hours of cell power is a lot.

LEDs are made by depositing a variety of thin, epitaxial layers on a wafer. After the deposition process is finished, the wafer is annealed. (heat treated) This heat treatment, along with the design of the device, can substantially affect the Vf and its stability. I suspect that the burn in process helps stabilize the same things that the anneal is supposed to do, but that is of course just conjecture on my part.

5 years ago, I would not put any LED in a light that didn't go through a 24 hour burn in, as the Vf drop was substantial (regardless of brand). I know that Lumileds has done a lot of work to reduce the Vf for all of their products, and I imagine that Cree has as well. Frankly, I haven't tested the Vf characteristics of the Rebel recently, but it is in the long term plan.

The tweeking to make the LED die stable electrically and optically requires a lot of R&D. There aren't that many firms with the resources to optimize this area, especially with a relatively new product like the Luminus package. Lumileds has been making 1x1mm die since at least the late 90s, and I think Cree since about 2003 or 2004. You would expect them to be pretty decent at it by now.


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## HarryN (May 11, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> Don't know about Cree, but SSC might have something to do with that they bin the Vf & sell by Vf bin.
> 
> My wild guess is that in order to bin them, they'll have to stabilize the Vf first, Can't bin the Vf if it changes each time after you test it.
> 
> ...



They don't stabilize the LED Vf in order to sell them. They do a very quick test - a couple of milliseconds, and use that reading.

The only firm that I have ever seen actually bin by Vf in common power LEDs was Lumileds, and they have pretty much shifted focus towards their 17 flavors of white.


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## Al Combs (May 11, 2010)

HarryN said:


> The only firm that I have ever seen actually bin by Vf in common power LEDs was Lumileds


SSC bins their LEDs by Vf as well.


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## HarryN (May 11, 2010)

Al Combs said:


> SSC bins their LEDs by Vf as well.



Thanks for that info Al.


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## David Gretzmier (May 12, 2010)

I love the pics ma sha- just found this thread. the instructions should read- take your drill and tape it on, then using your boot, hold the drill to the coffee table and grind out mag light... you kill me man. what will you do when you buy a lathe?


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## ma_sha1 (May 12, 2010)

David Gretzmier said:


> I love the pics ma sha- just found this thread. the instructions should read- take your drill and tape it on, then using your boot, hold the drill to the coffee table and grind out mag light... you kill me man. what will you do when you buy a lathe?



You forget to mention wear "dress shoes" for the photo part 
lathe is out of questions for now, wife already tried to kick my operations out of the basement to the Garage, need to keep it at a minimum & tuck the tools away when done. I have thought about a lathe a few times...
Right now, my answers is "look dear, there's nothing going on down here..."


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## Techjunkie (May 12, 2010)

David Gretzmier said:


> I love the pics ma sha- just found this thread. the instructions should read- take your drill and tape it on, then using your boot, hold the drill to the coffee table and grind out mag light... you kill me man. what will you do when you buy a lathe?


 
+1


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## ma_sha1 (May 12, 2010)

I am glad you guys are having fun, How about I coin down a more professional term:

"Arm & Leg Lathe"


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## l_____l (May 12, 2010)

Absolutely stunning read! I remember the old days of _shocking_ an old NiCad battery back to life, but this beats all get out! I am curious though, in the picture where you have the emitter in a clamp, ...text reads, "_To make the heat transfer really really well & the actic silver as thin as possible, I pressed the LED down while curing._" How hard are you pressing on the SST-90's dome (lens)?  From the pdf files I've read from all LED manufacturers, they say do *not* apply pressure to the lens. 
Anyhow, I thought it might be better to use a small thin wall socket to apply pressure to the _frame_ itself, while leaving the lens (dome) untouched. See pic below...if it worked....






OK, pic worked! :thumbsup: Another option would be to apply 4 points of pressure to the substrate itself. However, being the frame *is* mounted to the substrate, and I have yet to find a *square socket*, :duh2: ...well, you understand! Nonetheless, something this small may require a piece of copper tubing as opposed to a _thin wall socket_. Something thin enough to not touch the lens, yet able to catch the 4 corners of the frame. 

At the end of the day, _heat sink compound_ does nothing, unless it's *thin* and hard pressed to the heat sink. 

Thanks for the post, as it was a wonderful read! I wish I had the wherewithal ($) to do just some of the things I have read! 

BTW, have you seen the 5AH 36650 D size Li-Ion batteries yet? Would make a nice _"direct drive" _1D Mag! Or 2 each @ 8.4V with a proper driver in a 2D Mag! :thumbsup: No more small batteries to try and make a big one! 

Thanks for your time in reading my post. If you feel I should keep my thoughts to myself, feel free to PM me and say so. I *will* oblige. After all, my mother (RIP) always told me to "_sit down and shut up_". I hope that didn't mean "forever". :scowl:

Take care,

-Pace


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## ma_sha1 (May 12, 2010)

You are totally welcome to post here. 

SST-90 use glass lens, others like Cree/SSC use gummy doom or plastic lens. Pressing down on the SST-lens gave me no issues. But I wouldn't do it on gummy/plastic lens.


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## l_____l (May 12, 2010)

ma_sha1 said:


> You are totally welcome to post here.
> 
> SST-90 use glass lens, others like Cree/SSC use gummy doom or plastic lens. Pressing down on the SST-lens gave me no issues. But I wouldn't do it on gummy/plastic lens.



WoW! Outstanding! I've read that most "domes" are silicon based, (soft, do not touch!). If the Luminus product does have a glass lens, then there is *no* reason to purchase an emitter from anyone else! Whatsoever! 

I've read horror stories on the "Glock Talk" forums about the lens (dome) falling off the emitter on modded Streamlites. Although under warranty, that kind of failure is inexcusable! 

Nevertheless, did you like my idea about "_4 point pressing on the frame"_ concept? 

You are absolutely right about pressing hard and thinning the heat compound between the device and it's heat sink!! 

Most people are clueless when it comes to "_thermal conductivity". _

Anyhow, I'm looking to build a light based on a Mag host. I'd prefer it to be DD (direct drive). Why DD?....because it can be *done* and done *right!*

I could just give up and buy a 35W HID from: http://www.easy-motorcycle.com/35w-28w-hid-xenon-torch-flashlight-w6600mah-battery-p-91.html

Than again, "why"? 

I'd rather learn more!!!

I'll start with: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.13336

What I DON'T know, is just how far to take an LED! For example, 3x NiMH in a SSC P7 "pill"....should I use an L or J suffix device?? (I know the difference) I= 3.25-3.5V, J= 3.5-3.75V. Then again, will my _"blind date"_ wanna call a Taxi? 

It's all good! I've found a place to where I can work my brain! 



-Pace


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## ma_sha1 (Aug 6, 2010)

After reading Big C's post about copper vs Alu. heat sink SST-90 Vara2000,
I was a bit curious why would copper be that much brighter at turn on?
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3443534&postcount=910

So here it s, the curiosity got the better of me, I bough Big C's Copper version of Vera2000 & test for my self vs. my SST-90 Brihtlumen Alum sink SST-90.

Both light are SST-90 top bin with mag Rebel Deep SMO. 





Visually, the two light appears equally bright. 
I measured Lux @ 5 meter & then converted to lux @ 1meter

Mag 1.5D SST-90 Rebel SMO Brightlumen's Alu. Sink: 5 Meter 1700 1 meter lux 42,500 

Vera2000 Mag 3D SST-90 Rebel SMO Copper Sink 5 meter lux 1850, 1 meter lux 46,250.

The Lambda Vara2000 is 9% Brighter

Wola, you say, BigC is right, the copper sink is better. 

Not so fast! I measured tail cap Current, (Both Lights are direct drive)

My SST-90 Alum Sink 4XAA Eneloop measured 8.35Amp at turn on
Vara2000 SST-90 Copper sink 4x5000mah Nimh measured 9.87Amp at turn on 

The copper sink light has 18% more current at turn on!

*Conclusion: *
The Copper Sink makes NO Difference for Turn on Lumens. 
The increased OTF Lumens observed by BigC was likely resulted from 
AMP differents between the two Vara2000 light measured.

Copper sink would probably cause the light to drop lumens slower over time, but should not affect Turn on Lumens.


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