# P90 vs P91



## aares (May 1, 2007)

Is the P91 *that* much brighter than the P90? I understand its ~95 lumens more, but I couldnt find any versus beamshots so I am asking now. Thanks!


----------



## Omega Man (May 1, 2007)

I think it's floodier, that's what my eyes tell me. It doesn't throw any farther, just makes more light, if that's not an oversimplification. I used to bring the P91 camping, but even using 2x17670s, I'd rather have 1 hours runtime with the P90, than 40 mins with the P91.


----------



## mdocod (May 1, 2007)

The P90 on 3 CR123s is more like 125 lumen, while the P91 on 3 CR123 is more like 250 lumen. Like omega_man said, the P91 is a flood light, while the P90 is focused. On CR123s the difference is that the hot spot is bigger with similar intensity. If you run the P91 on rechargable Li-Ion cells, it runs nearly 400 lumen, totally blowing a P90 away.


----------



## Patriot (May 1, 2007)

I think Surefire's figures are 105 for the P90 and 200 for the P91. I'm with Omega man in that I'd rather have the P90 and get an hours worth of output.

Another option are the lamp assemblies offered by Lumens Factory. Their lamps seem to brighter and and or more efficient. The ES-9 will give you more lumens for more time, although their figures are slightly over rated. 

http://lumensfactory.com/products.php?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=3


----------



## nobody (May 1, 2007)

mdocod nailed it - P91 on Li-ions - the output is WHITE and WIDE. It is hard to describe. My wife says it is "LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS" and "TURN IT OFF". P9 + A19 + (2) 17670's + P91 is a combination that just has to be tried to really be appreciated.


----------



## Owen (May 1, 2007)

http://www.knivesandtools.com/de/he...hlight1=20msfp90.jpg&flashlight2=20msfp91.jpg

I keep this site in my favorites, labeled "beamshot database".


----------



## mdocod (May 1, 2007)

> The ES-9 will give you more lumens for more time, although their figures are slightly over rated.



it will run longer, but it won't be brighter. sorry. The P90 is about 20-30% brighter than an ES-9. The ES-9 uses about 30-40% less energy.


----------



## Patriot (May 1, 2007)

mdocod said:


> it will run longer, but it won't be brighter. sorry. The P90 is about 20-30% brighter than an ES-9. The ES-9 uses about 30-40% less energy.


 
Isn't that goofy that they rate that lamp assembly at 150 lumens? Geez, talk about over rating.


----------



## Omega Man (May 2, 2007)

nobody said:


> mdocod nailed it - P91 on Li-ions - the output is WHITE and WIDE. It is hard to describe. My wife says it is "LOUD AND OBNOXIOUS" and "TURN IT OFF". P9 + A19 + (2) 17670's + P91 is a combination that just has to be tried to really be appreciated.


 Here here. Nuthin says luvin like a C3 with A19 and 2x17670's lighting up a field/forest/driveway.


----------



## Bob K (May 2, 2007)

Deleted


----------



## mdocod (May 2, 2007)

> Isn't that goofy that they rate that lamp assembly at 150 lumens? Geez, talk about over rating.



actually, lumensfactory lamps are validly rated, and conservative in their own right... LF gives bulb lumens at a particular voltage, while SF gives conservative average torch lumens. Both methods are completely valid and reasonable in my opinion. LF ratings are nice because they list bulb voltage, CCT, lumens, and life, all on their website for all to see and plainly state that they are bulb lumens. With the information LF gives us, it is much easier to estimate real world values in different configurations, SF gives us a lot less to work with, but they do rate their bulbs very conservatively.


----------



## batman (May 2, 2007)

are the lumens factory bulbs for the executive and 6P/9P lights as robust as the surefire original lamp assemblies?


----------



## Glen C (May 2, 2007)

Batman, in the E series the Surefire base is made of plastic, the Lumens Factory is made of aluminium. The D26 LF series is well made, seems the equal of Surefire to me. There are more comments on LF quality in their thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/144248

I would second Mdocod's comments on LF, as a dealer I have found them very upfront and honest, I think the spec sheet on their website speaks volumes towards that, how many other do similar?


----------



## mdocod (May 2, 2007)

> are the lumens factory bulbs for the executive and 6P/9P lights as robust as the surefire original lamp assemblies?



yes and no... Both lamps are built incredibly well and should survive impacts. LF assemblies are solidly and accurately built. They have an overall good track record of coming from the factory with the bulbs well aligned, providing beautiful beam patterns that are nice and round with tons of throw. Both SF and LF have had lamps make their way into customers hands that weren't "perfect." SF did a lot of work coming up with an awesome set of lamps that have very high reliability, and so did LF, read here: http://www.lumensfactory.com/design_concept.htm ... 

However- LF lamps have been designed with more output and less bulb life in mind. This is a trade off, well worth it IMO. Most LF bulbs are rated ~20 hours, while most SF bulbs are rated around 50 hours. But the life of a bulb is very dependent on how you choose to power it. Driving a SF P91 on a pair of 18650s will drop it's life expectancy to about 10 hours.


----------



## mdocod (May 2, 2007)

in response to the original question... I found some old picts I had taken of a G90 verses a P91.. the G90 is a G&P lamp that is pretty comparable to a P90 performance wise. these comparisons are with li-ion cells, so the difference is a little more dramatic than it would be on primaries.


----------



## Destroid Monster (May 2, 2007)

mdocod said:


> However- LF lamps have been designed with more output and less bulb life in mind. This is a trade off, well worth it IMO. Most LF bulbs are rated ~20 hours, while most SF bulbs are rated around 50 hours. But the life of a bulb is very dependent on how you choose to power it. Driving a SF P91 on a pair of 18650s will drop it's life expectancy to about 10 hours.



Would driving a MN15 or MN16 on two(2) 18650 shorten the lifespan of the respective LAs? Blowing a $25+ LA away for 10 hours doesn't sounds very economical to me.


----------



## mdocod (May 2, 2007)

I say *about* 10 hours because there are a lot of variable that effect tactical lamp life. It seems that SF also probably understated average life expectancy of their bulbs as well. 

10 hours doesn't sound like much, but when you stretch it out, and use it a few minutes at a time, it can last some people years on a flashlight.

assuming that the MN15 and MN16 are "50 hour" bulbs on CR123s... a MN15 would become more like 35 hours, and the MN16 something like 10-20 hours.(I come up with 12.5).

It's worth it because on 18650s, something like an MN16 is WAY brighter than it would have been on CR123s


----------



## LED61 (May 2, 2007)

As long as the topic has shifted to LF lamps VS SF lamps, I will mention that I am so very pleased with the LF lamps thus far. However, I believe they have less lifespan than the SF lights, maybe because they are more overdriven ? Having said that though they are a lot cheaper and come very well presented in their neat cases.


----------



## Telkin (May 2, 2007)

+1 for LF LA's. They're high quality and I have received nothing but great service from them even with a simple shipping mishap. Can't wait for their M series to come out so I can buy more.


----------



## Geologist (May 2, 2007)

Keep in mind that the lumen ratings for the SF lights have been measured out the end of the light with a integrating sphere. IIRC, an empirical value of about 60% can be applied to "bulb lumens" to get an idea of how much light comes out once you stick on the reflector, lens, etc. If that is the case, a P91 at 205 lumens (flashlight output) would equal to about 340 bulb lumens. Just a thought....

I see no real difference in max throw between the P90 and P91 - just more light - I carry my C3 with a P91 and 2XPila 150S - and have the P90 with 6 primaries in the spares carrier. I really like the recharable C3/P91 setup! I also often use the P90 in a C2 with 2XR123 protected cells - I have also had good luck with this as well.


----------



## LED61 (May 3, 2007)

This is all true, but even so a real life comparison using a LF EO9 with two Wolfeyes 18500's and a WE Raider, the 380 bulb lumens will be 250 out the end and will be brighter and whiter than the P91 in a 9P with primaries. You can also use the previous WE setup with primaries in a zap, and the light is just a tad longer than a SF U2. Amazing combo and bang for the buck!!


----------



## Strauss (May 3, 2007)

LED61 said:


> This is all true, but even so a real life comparison using a LF EO9 with two Wolfeyes 18500's and a WE Raider, the 380 bulb lumens will be 250 out the end and will be brighter and whiter than the P91 in a 9P with primaries. You can also use the previous WE setup with primaries in a zap, and the light is just a tad longer than a SF U2. Amazing combo and bang for the buck!!


 
Yes, but put that P91 on primaries and see what happens


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (May 3, 2007)

Strauss said:


> Yes, but put that P91 on primaries and see what happens


We all know what happens... You get lousy 20 min max runtime with a horrible discharge curve.


----------



## Alteran (May 3, 2007)

You can run the P91 on 3 RCRs? Wouldn't that blow it? How about the P90? Would either of them work on 2 RCRs?


----------



## mdocod (May 3, 2007)

> You can run the P91 on 3 RCRs?


no, not sure where you read that, someone may have mistakenly meant CR123 primaries. 

The P90 can be driven by 2 RCR123s safely, but not the P91..

please click on the link in my sigline to see what works and doesn't work and why.


----------

