# How you identify a high drain device?



## roadwarrior (Oct 12, 2015)

I am curious to know how you guys identify a "high drain" device?

I own a radio scanner and I am mulling over whether it is justified for me price wise to go with Enenloop 2100 cycle or Eneloop Pros for everyday use....

I read somewhere that anything that uses up batteries within an hour of continuous use, is a high drain device and anything else would be considered a low drain device. 

Any truth to that?

Thanks.


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## Kitchen Panda (Oct 12, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> I am curious to know how you guys identify a "high drain" device?
> 
> I own a radio scanner and I am mulling over whether it is justified for me price wise to go with Enenloop 2100 cycle or Eneloop Pros for everyday use....
> 
> ...


 

I would agree with that. Anything that discharges a secondary battery in less than even 4 or 5 hours, I think qualifies as "high drain". Often portable batteries are rated at an 8 or 10 or 20 hour discharge capacity. "2500 mA-hr " in a battery spec sheet usually implies something more like 125 mA for 20 hours, instead of 2.5 amps for an hour - and if it can give you 25 amps for 6 minutes, it's a super premium design that's boasting about its ultra-high-rate discharge (and probably so specialized for the duty as to be not as useful for more moderate discharge applications.)

Bill


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 12, 2015)

What load does your scanner place on a battery and what batteries do you normally use...alkalines?

For a NiMH battery, I'd say 3 amps and above would be a high drain on them and certainly would be for an alkaline battery.

Like Bill states, you've got remote controls, wall clocks and thermostats that don't do more than a couple hundred milliamps. 

I've got a Marantz RC5000 (Philips Pronto) LCD remote and I go through NiMH quicker in that than I do on this wireless RF keyboard and mouse, so they're lower drain devices than the remote, but things are relative.

Alkaline<NiMH<ICR li-ion<hybrid li-ion<IMR li-ion<IFR li-ion...or something along those lines.

Chris


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## roadwarrior (Oct 12, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> What load does your scanner place on a battery and what batteries do you normally use...alkalines?
> 
> For a NiMH battery, I'd say 3 amps and above would be a high drain on them and certainly would be for an alkaline battery.
> 
> ...



I don't know if this answers your question, but reading the owner's manual and looking at the scanner it requires 5V DC - 1000ma. Could not find anything detailing "load" on batteries.

I exclusively use 2300mAh NiMH batteries right now. Currently using a set of four CORUN 2300mAh that came with the unit and a set of four Energizer 2300mAh I purchased to rotate them out with. 

My scanner is the Uniden HomePatrol 2.


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 12, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> I don't know if this answers your question, but reading the owner's manual and looking at the scanner it requires 5V DC - 1000ma. Could not find anything detailing "load" on batteries.
> 
> I exclusively use 2300mAh NiMH batteries right now. Currently using a set of four CORUN 2300mAh that came with the unit and a set of four Energizer 2300mAh I purchased to rotate them out with.
> 
> My scanner is the Uniden HomePatrol 2.



1A at 12vdc, or 12w. Assuming the batteries are in series, then 1.2*4=4.8v, so 12w/4.8v would be 2.5A to get to 12w, all things being equal. If you figure that NiMH are closer to 1.30v-1.35v when fully charged, you might get by with a bit less 'current.' If you're running them in a 2S2P configuration, then the current has to go up to make that 12w level, which could in fact, be more than what the unit actually needs.

Now, I'm an English Lit. and Communications major, so I don't vouch for any of the above, as being gospel.

I like the Energizer 2300s and we're confident that they're FDK (Eneloop) technology, although maybe not pure clones like the Duracell Ion Core batteries we love.

If you're charging them up often due to usage, you might go for the Eneloop Pros, for the slightly higher capacity.

Chris


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## roadwarrior (Oct 12, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> 1A at 12vdc, or 12w. Assuming the batteries are in series, then 1.2*4=4.8v, so 12w/4.8v would be 2.5A to get to 12w, all things being equal. If you figure that NiMH are closer to 1.30v-1.35v when fully charged, you might get by with a bit less 'current.' If you're running them in a 2S2P configuration, then the current has to go up to make that 12w level, which could in fact, be more than what the unit actually needs.
> 
> Now, I'm an English Lit. and Communications major, so I don't vouch for any of the above, as being gospel.
> 
> ...



Due to being a noob to the world of rechargeable batteries and associated chargers, I have not kept track of how much use I get before needing to recharge. Today, I began to though. Put in the set of fully charged CORUNs and noted the time and date. 

I do not run the scanner continuously 24/7, more like in intervals the of 2 to 6 hours a day. Maybe more on days I am at home all day. Either way, it does get shut off at some point. 

I'll see how many days of usage I get from today on forward and that way I'll have better understanding of what my capacity need may be.

Thanks for the feedback Chris!


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## more_vampires (Oct 12, 2015)

So this thing isn't portable really? You could get a plugin DC power supply and straight skip the batteries for 100% runtime?

Some are fixed output, some are adjustable. It'd be simply a matter of hooking the leads and not blowing polarity (and your scanner.)

Just keep the batteries for power outages? Nice to have that option, too.


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 12, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> Due to being a noob to the world of rechargeable batteries and associated chargers, I have not kept track of how much use I get before needing to recharge. Today, I began to though. Put in the set of fully charged CORUNs and noted the time and date.
> 
> I do not run the scanner continuously 24/7, more like in intervals the of 2 to 6 hours a day. Maybe more on days I am at home all day. Either way, it does get shut off at some point.
> 
> ...



Much like flashlight geeks doing runtime tests with their lights and batteries, you should start tracking things and then swap in some of the better batteries, to see if they make a difference.

You also might want to invest $20 into some Energizer Lithium Ultimates and stash them away for a rainy day. Higher voltage at ~1.80v than alkalines and NiMH and they have a 500 year shelf life, or something like that.

Chris


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## roadwarrior (Oct 12, 2015)

more_vampires said:


> So this thing isn't portable really? You could get a plugin DC power supply and straight skip the batteries for 100% runtime?
> 
> Some are fixed output, some are adjustable. It'd be simply a matter of hooking the leads and not blowing polarity (and your scanner.)
> 
> Just keep the batteries for power outages? Nice to have that option, too.



Yes, it is portable. Also some features will become disabled if charged batteries are not inside of it. So it works best if you have batteries in it at all times. It also uses the batteries as an anti-corruption fail safe for the installed SD card in case the unit abruptly loses DC power or gets improperly shutdown. It comes with a USB cable one can use to externally power the unit, however even when doing that, you need to have a charged set of batteries inserted if you want to use all its features. Which mainly are a record and playback feature for transmissions received. 

Also, the drawback of using the USB cable all the time is reduced portability.


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## sidecross (Oct 12, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Much like flashlight geeks doing runtime tests with their lights and batteries, you should start tracking things and then swap in some of the better batteries, to see if they make a difference.
> 
> You also might want to invest $20 into some Energizer Lithium Ultimates and stash them away for a rainy day. Higher voltage at ~1.80v than alkalines and NiMH and they have a 500 year shelf life, or something like that.
> 
> Chris


'Lithium iron disulfide batteries lose 0.6% per year at 21 C (room temperature)...' http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf


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## roadwarrior (Oct 12, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Much like flashlight geeks doing runtime tests with their lights and batteries, you should start tracking things and then swap in some of the better batteries, to see if they make a difference.
> 
> You also might want to invest $20 into some Energizer Lithium Ultimates and stash them away for a rainy day. Higher voltage at ~1.80v than alkalines and NiMH and they have a 500 year shelf life, or something like that.
> 
> Chris



I will look into it the Lithium batteries, however one thing I will have to be cognizant of is; the scanner is capable of in unit charging of NiMH batteries only, so if I accidentally hit the wrong button, I will have catastrophic results. 

In case you are a wondering why I don't just charge my NiMH cells in the charger...the unit's charger is timer based, not smart and it is widely believed in scanning circles it is taboo to use the scanner to charge your batteries. There has been incidents of folks blowing up their scanners and or experiencing all manner of bad issues involving batteries getting overcharged in their scanners.

My experience here has also educated me to the benefits of using a smart charger to better prolong and condition batteries, so in unit charging is a no go for me.

At this point I am just trying to determine how much mah I need. Pros are pricey, but doable if I end up justifying the need. However, I don't want to spend the money if 2000mAh/2100 cycles Eneloops will do the job just as well or close to. Anything that can get me a few days to a week's use or maybe more if I am lucky would be great in my book. Not trying to get a set of batteries to last me a month....would be a awesome, but I understand there are always limitations to everything.


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 12, 2015)

sidecross said:


> 'Lithium iron disulfide batteries lose 0.6% per year at 21 C (room temperature)...' http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/lithiuml91l92_appman.pdf



I was joking, but I think that they're up over 20 years now, so I really don't think it matters if you're over 50. 20 years is 12%. 

Chris


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## sidecross (Oct 12, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I was joking, but I think that they're up over 20 years now, so I really don't think it matters if you're over 50. 20 years is 12%.
> 
> Chris


I am over 70 years old and I hope I not to expire until spring time.


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## more_vampires (Oct 13, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I was joking, but I think that they're up over 20 years now, so I really don't think it matters if you're over 50. 20 years is 12%.
> Chris





sidecross said:


> I am over 70 years old and I hope I not to expire until spring time.



The cure for death has been "any day now" for quite some time.  The cure for stupidity, well... I won't hold my breath on that one. Curing death is easier


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## MidnightDistortions (Oct 13, 2015)

Basically a test run is the best way to determine if your device is high drain or not. In actuality if you are finding yourself replacing the batteries quite often, more than you think you should that's when it would be a good idea to consider getting higher capacity batteries. They do have fewer cycles so you would have to keep that in mind. Some people don't mind the fewer cycles and extra costs for a little more run time. In a high drain flashlight it could mean having an extra 10+ minutes run time before the batteries go out so it could matter depending on the job you are using the flashlight for. Or in a weather radio, having that extra capacity could mean the difference between keeping the device running longer and the batteries running out when you need it the most.

I dedicated my only set of Duraloops to my TN4A light since the light uses a lot of mA and whenever i get the Nitecore EA41, i'll most likely buy a set of 8 Eneloop Pro and then another set of 8 of a different brand such as Duracell.


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## roadwarrior (Oct 13, 2015)

MidnightDistortions said:


> Basically a test run is the best way to determine if your device is high drain or not. In actuality if you are finding yourself replacing the batteries quite often, more than you think you should that's when it would be a good idea to consider getting higher capacity batteries. They do have fewer cycles so you would have to keep that in mind. Some people don't mind the fewer cycles and extra costs for a little more run time. In a high drain flashlight it could mean having an extra 10+ minutes run time before the batteries go out so it could matter depending on the job you are using the flashlight for. Or in a weather radio, having that extra capacity could mean the difference between keeping the device running longer and the batteries running out when you need it the most.
> 
> I dedicated my only set of Duraloops to my TN4A light since the light uses a lot of mA and whenever i get the Nitecore EA41, i'll most likely buy a set of 8 Eneloop Pro and then another set of 8 of a different brand such as Duracell.



Yeah, running my test now. But I am starting to lean towards the higher mAh Pros anyway, we'll see what my test produces. I am even thinking of maybe getting a set of Imedions to mix in too. 

I would also prefer to go strictly LSD. As far as the cycles, it has been stated on here that while 2100 cycles sounds awesome on it's face, the reality is 500 cycles would "probably" be more than enough too in someone's lifetime, so cycle life is not that much of a concern with me when it comes to the Pros. 

I did read Maha adversities a 1000 charges with their Imedions though and at 2400mAh I figure they are worth a look and try....


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 13, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> Yeah, running my test now. But I am starting to lean towards the higher mAh Pros anyway, we'll see what my test produces. I am even thinking of maybe getting a set of Imedions to mix in too.
> 
> I would also prefer to go strictly LSD. As far as the cycles, it has been stated on here that while 2100 cycles sounds awesome on it's face, the reality is 500 cycles would "probably" be more than enough too in someone's lifetime, so cycle life is not that much of a concern with me when it comes to the Pros.
> 
> I did read Maha adversities a 1000 charges with their Imedions though and at 2400mAh I figure they are worth a look and try....



I have 8 Imedions that I got back in early 2012 and while they're decent batteries, they're not exactly on par with either the Eneloops (standard/Pros) or the GP ReCyKos in my 1 year shootout.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ut-Eneloops-GP-ReCyKos-and-Imedions-it-s-done!

Just go to Target, Home Depot, ChinaMart, CVS, Walgreens or Toys R Us and buy the Duracell branded Ion Core AAs and be done with it. Toys R Us runs sales on them from time to time. $11 per quad is the standard MSRP.

Chris


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## roadwarrior (Oct 13, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I have 8 Imedions that I got back in early 2012 and while they're decent batteries, they're not exactly on par with either the Eneloops (standard/Pros) or the GP ReCyKos in my 1 year shootout.
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ut-Eneloops-GP-ReCyKos-and-Imedions-it-s-done!
> 
> ...



Interesting test, thanks for sharing. Must say I am disappointed the Imedions were no bueno after a year compared to the Eneloops. 


I spied some of those Duracells a few a days ago while I was at Wal-Mart, I have read on here they are basically "Duraloops", but correct me if I am wrong, they are not LSD correct? 

Out of convenience and due to all the positive reviews I have seen on them here, I planned on picking up a quad at Wally World just because. 

Based on your feedback, I may just end up scratching the Imedion idea all together and getting the Duraloop quad to try instead along with some Pros then...


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 13, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> Interesting test, thanks for sharing. Must say I am disappointed the Imedions were no bueno after a year compared to the Eneloops.
> 
> 
> I spied some of those Duracells a few a days ago while I was at Wal-Mart, I have read on here they are basically "Duraloops", but correct me if I am wrong, they are not LSD correct?
> ...



Imedions are 'tweeners.' They held about 68% of their charge, but the GPs and Eneloops held closer to 83% and 86% IIRC. The Imedions do have a bit more capacity, but they're not 2400mAh, even out of the packs.

Panasonic owns the Eneloop brand, but FDK owns the technology and plant, again IIRC, so FDK is able to sell their batteries to other people, who then relabel them. 

We're almost positive that Duracell relabeled Gen. 2 Eneloops, hence the term 'Duraloop.'

We're mostly sure that Duracell is relabeling the 2400mAh-2500mAh Eneloop XX/Pros as 'Ion Core.'

I had put a quad away for 1 year and was discharging them a couple of months back, so see what was left, but my power had a brown out and my Maha reset, so I lost that data, but voltages were up over 1.30v, so they would have probably done well.

Remember, the Eneloop XX/Pros are rated for 500 cycles and not the 2100 cycles that we see in the Gen. 4 standard Eneloops, but at 2500mAh vs. 2000mAh, they have 25% more capacity. They do self discharge a bit faster, but nowhere as fast as an HSD (high discharge battery.)

They're the safe bet right now and they're ubiquitous. Also, at $11 per quad, they're not that expensive.

Chris


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## roadwarrior (Oct 13, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Imedions are 'tweeners.' They held about 68% of their charge, but the GPs and Eneloops held closer to 83% and 86% IIRC. The Imedions do have a bit more capacity, but they're not 2400mAh, even out of the packs.
> 
> Panasonic owns the Eneloop brand, but FDK owns the technology and plant, again IIRC, so FDK is able to sell their batteries to other people, who then relabel them.
> 
> ...



Will definitely give the Ion Cores a try. Did some more checking on them after my last post and they are indeed advertised as LSD!! 

As far the 500 cycle Pros, I am good with that. If I can get 5 to 10 years out of them I am happy. 

This place :rock: for getting feedback and enableing people to make informed decisions!!! 

I thank you much sir!


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## KeepingItLight (Oct 13, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> As far the 500 cycle Pros, I am good with that. If I can get 5 to 10 years out of them I am happy.



CPF member, and NiMH expert, Power Me Up has performed extensive cycle testing with both regular Eneloops and Eneloop Pros. He reports that you will not get close to 500 cycles out of the Pros. You may get as few as 150 to 200 cycles, more if you limit charging and discharging levels. If you limit charging levels, of course, you will not get all of the extra capacity!

Given the higher price of the Pros, I have decided that regular Eneloops are the best fit for many of my applications. In certain flashlights, however, I value the longer runtimes. In those, I am using the Pros, even though the current demands of the flashlights are low enough that I could run on regular Eneloops.


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## roadwarrior (Oct 13, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> CPF member, and NiMH expert, Power Me Up has performed extensive cycle testing with both regular Eneloops and Eneloop Pros. He reports that you will not get close to 500 cycles out of the Pros. You may get as few as 150 to 200 cycles, more if you limit charging and discharging levels. If you limit charging levels, of course, you will not get all of the extra capacity!
> 
> Given the higher price of the Pros, I have decided that regular Eneloops are the best fit for many of my applications. In certain flashlights, however, I value the longer runtimes. In those, I am using the Pros, even though the current demands of the flashlights are low enough that I could run on regular Eneloops.



Kind of disappointing to hear one may get only 150 to 200 cycles out the Pros, but that's still 3 to 4 years of use (give or take) "if' you end up having to recharge once a week. I know that pales in comparison to regular Eneloops though.....

I am in day two of testing a set of 2300mAh batteries in my application, so once that is done I would be better informed on what my particular mAh needs are. Price wise I would be happy to go with regular Eneloops, but if the 2300mAh I am testing now does not end up lasting me long, then obviously going down to 1900-2000mAh will not be good. 

Fortunately, Chris turned me on to the Duraloops, so there is always that avenue as well. 


As silly as it sounds, I have read so much GREAT reviews and feedback on Eneloops in general, I kind of just want to join the club and say I own a set at this point, so I can be  like you guys.... 


In all seriousness, please keep the feedback coming, the battery education I have received here has been priceless.


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## more_vampires (Oct 13, 2015)

I ditched high self discharge NiMH a few years ago and it was the best thing ever. Should have done it the moment Eneloops first came out.

I replaced a pile of failing batteries that couldn't hold any usable charge longer than maybe a week and a half. After the switch, smoooooooooth sailing!

A stack of AA and AAA white jacket Eneloops and Eneloop charger.... quite possibly my best flashlight purchase ever.

If I somehow lost them all, I would simply buy more. Can't beat the best.


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## magellan (Oct 13, 2015)

Great info, there. I have some of both so will probably just stick with the regulars at this point.


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## KeepingItLight (Oct 13, 2015)

Here are some of the threads I have bookmarked. Click the




symbols to open the respective threads.



Power Me Up said:


> Out of curiosity, I decided to run a cycle life test to compare the high capacity Eneloop XX to the Turnigy 2400. In Australia at least, the Eneloop XX cells are quite expensive - about 30% more than regular Eneloops and they rarely go on special. Regular Eneloops are often on special at less for an 8 pack than the Eneloop XX cells cost for a 4 pack! The Turnigy 2400 cells on the other hand are quite cheap. Ignoring shipping costs, they're cheaper than regular Eneloops even when the Eneloops are on special.
> [Many charts and other info deleted for brevity.]​
> Overall, I'd say that this is a disappointing result for the Eneloop XX. Unless the absolute maximum capacity is required, I would generally recommend the Turnigy 2400 cells ahead of the Eneloop XX cells - particularly considering the large price difference!





gooseman said:


> In March 2014 I purchased a pack of 8 new eneloop XXs (4HR‐3UWX) from "large online retailer" (before Panasonic rebranding).
> 
> I have been using my Maha MH-C9000 to charge them at 1000ma for the past 16 months. I use all 8 batteries and then recharge them, so they are getting even wear.
> 
> ...





Power Me Up said:


> In the testing that I've done - that others have already pointed to, I found that the cycle life of the Eneloop XX cells was nowhere near as good as the regular Eneloop cells. The results that I've obtained are only directly applicable to the testing method that I used, but I would be surprised if you could find a usage scenario under which the Eneloop XX cells performed anywhere nearly as well as regular Eneloops when it comes to cycle life.
> 
> I don't think that charging them at 1000 mA on the C9000 would likely cause a (significant) reduction in cycle life - the 100 mA top off for 2 hours might cause a little degradation, but I think that if the cells were being deeply discharged, that's much more likely to be the cause of them developing high internal resistance so quickly.


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 13, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> Kind of disappointing to hear one may get only 150 to 200 cycles out the Pros, but that's still 3 to 4 years of use (give or take) "if' you end up having to recharge once a week. I know that pales in comparison to regular Eneloops though...



That's just one guy doing an accelerated test, with a smallish sample size, so take it with a grain of salt. Sanyo/Panasonic have stated 500 cycles and they've been pretty accurate and consistent with their capacity ratings, so I have no problem believing that 500 number, but that's just me.

500 vs. 2100 cycles? Sorry, but they're not supposed to be as sturdy as the standard Eneloops and even if you get 250 cycles, that's once a week for 5 years. Generally, you don't wear them out via cycle number, you wear them out because they develop a high internal resistance and become tough to charge up.

Finally, we're seeing Chinese made Eneloops for the Asian and Oceania markets and those seem to b somewhat inferior to the Japanese made batteries.

My Sanyo 2700mAh HSD AAs lasted just about 3 years before the IRs got so high that my Maha and LaCrosse chargers can't charge them up, but my Rat Shack 15 minute IC3 charger can. I wouldn't buy them again and I wouldn't buy the AccuPower 2900mAh HSD AAs, or the 1200mAh AAAs either, although they're just barely over the 2.00v IR level for the Maha.

Chris


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## MidnightDistortions (Oct 13, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> Yeah, running my test now. But I am starting to lean towards the higher mAh Pros anyway, we'll see what my test produces. I am even thinking of maybe getting a set of Imedions to mix in too.
> 
> I would also prefer to go strictly LSD. As far as the cycles, it has been stated on here that while 2100 cycles sounds awesome on it's face, the reality is 500 cycles would "probably" be more than enough too in someone's lifetime, so cycle life is not that much of a concern with me when it comes to the Pros.
> 
> I did read Maha adversities a 1000 charges with their Imedions though and at 2400mAh I figure they are worth a look and try....



It's always good to have a set of 4 or 8 Eneloop Pro depending on your usage, i already got the AAA ones mostly for my T7 but i'm attempting to space the cells out some, once my crap cells are worthless i'll pick up some Eneloop Pro or maybe some Duraloops which are good as well.



roadwarrior said:


> Kind of disappointing to hear one may get only 150 to 200 cycles out the Pros, but that's still 3 to 4 years of use (give or take) "if' you end up having to recharge once a week. I know that pales in comparison to regular Eneloops though.....
> 
> I am in day two of testing a set of 2300mAh batteries in my application, so once that is done I would be better informed on what my particular mAh needs are. Price wise I would be happy to go with regular Eneloops, but if the 2300mAh I am testing now does not end up lasting me long, then obviously going down to 1900-2000mAh will not be good.
> 
> ...





ChrisGarrett said:


> That's just one guy doing an accelerated test, with a smallish sample size, so take it with a grain of salt. Sanyo/Panasonic have stated 500 cycles and they've been pretty accurate and consistent with their capacity ratings, so I have no problem believing that 500 number, but that's just me.
> 
> 500 vs. 2100 cycles? Sorry, but they're not supposed to be as sturdy as the standard Eneloops and even if you get 250 cycles, that's once a week for 5 years. Generally, you don't wear them out via cycle number, you wear them out because the develop a high internal resistance and become tough to charge up.
> 
> ...



Yeah i wouldn't worry too much about the cycle usage on the Pros. If anything i've seen traditional HSD 2400mAh cells last 8 years. The thing is though you could use the regular Eneloops in high drain devices and over time they will hold out longer than the Pro but it's like Duracells claim that they will last 5 years. The reduced cycle usage is mostly repeat discharge/charge and most likely if you let the cell rest an hour in between heavy discharging and charging and the process doesn't generate too much heat your ok and i wouldn't be surprised if Eneloop Pros can average out to about 5-6 years. Although that's a hopeful claim probably but still if you properly take care of the cells they should last longer .


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## KeepingItLight (Oct 14, 2015)

My approach is to take the cycle estimates for all Eneloops with a large grain of salt. They are produced as a result of accelerated testing in ideal laboratory conditions. Constant, moderate temperature is maintained, as are low to moderate charge and discharge currents. If I recall correctly, they are even run through a special charge cycle every 50th cycle.

I don't expect for a minute to be able to match the number of cycles specified for either regular Eneloops or Eneloop Pros. For lack of a better estimate, I have divided the specs in half. If I can get 1000 cycles out of my regular Eneloops, and 250 out of my Pros, I will be satisfied.


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## roadwarrior (Oct 14, 2015)

CORUN 2300mAh results are in:

Over the course of two days (27 hour time frame give or take), I accumulated 8 hours and 42 minutes of use before the scanner indicated a low-battery warning and recommended I recharge or switch out the batteries. Kind of disappointed that was all I could get out of them.....:sigh:

Put in my Energizer 2300mAh and began logging times today for that set.

However, I just realized something today. 

I am using an Energizer Pro model CHPRO wall-wart "dumb" charger. So I have no idea what my actual capacity is on these sets when I start out. 

The Maha C9000 is still in the Amazon wish list, along with some other items waiting to go into the cart after some OT pay I have coming to me. So, this whole test be may be for nothing considering the batteries I am using are not properly being discharged, cycled or conditioned.  

Another issue I thought about is I have no idea how low the capacity is in the batteries when the scanner's "low-warning" is triggered. I can't let it drain completely, because that will cause an improper/sudden power shutdown on the scanner, which in turn could corrupt my installed SD card. 

If this test is any indication of what I may be looking at cycle wise.....I could be looking at having to recharge 3 or more times a week.  

This sucks.


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## KeepingItLight (Oct 14, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> If this test is any indication of what I may be looking at cycle wise.....I could be looking at having to recharge 3 or more times a week.
> 
> This sucks.



Sounds like you might prefer the Pros.

I have another idea. This one needs confirmation from someone who is more knowledgeable than I am.

Your batteries are in relatively constant use. You charge them, use them, and start again after just a couple of days. I wonder whether you need low self-discharge at all. 

Eneloops, and other LSD batteries, trade capacity for low self-discharge. There are non-LSD batteries that have higher capacities than the 2550mAh of an Eneloop Pro. Perhaps you would be better off using those. I cannot recall precisely, but I think I have read about capacities around 2900mAh and possibly higher.

An example where this makes sense is in the photography business. A professional photographer may run several "strobes" (i.e., flash units) during a shoot, and drain them all in a single session. No need for low self-discharge there. It's better to have the extra capacity. The professional has to recharge every night anyway.

In your case, however, you need 3 days worth of runtime. Does that call for LSD? I don't know. My idea could be crazy! Hopefully, someone else will comment.


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## MidnightDistortions (Oct 14, 2015)

roadwarrior said:


> CORUN 2300mAh results are in:
> 
> Over the course of two days (27 hour time frame give or take), I accumulated 8 hours and 42 minutes of use before the scanner indicated a low-battery warning and recommended I recharge or switch out the batteries. Kind of disappointed that was all I could get out of them.....:sigh:
> 
> ...



Chances are is that you are not getting the full capacity of the cells, using dumb chargers won't help either. If you got a multimeter what is the reading on those cells when you pull them out? 

Here's a general guideline at resting voltages,

1.32v or higher - fully charged
1.29v - 75% charged
1.26v - 50% charged
1.23v - 25% charged
1.20v or lower - empty

If the cells are showing higher than 1.23v it might be possible that those cells are not functioning well, either from high IR or they have been damaged in some way, or the cut off voltage is higher than what NiMH cells are capable of doing. I would wait until you get the Maha charger to see how well those cells are performing. The other thing you might consider is getting some 2700mAh PowerEx cells, https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=PowerEx+2700mAh if you are looking to regularly use this device on batteries. Otherwise if you don't plan on using the device long with each day you can go with the Eneloop Pro. I would wait though to do a test on your cells with the Maha charger or just get some white Eneloops, you can get that with the charger BQ-CC17 which would be the cheapest method to go for now.


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## MidnightDistortions (Oct 14, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> Sounds like you might prefer the Pros.
> 
> I have another idea. This one needs confirmation from someone who is more knowledgeable than I am.
> 
> ...



So far the PowerEx 2700mAh cells are the best ones i have heard of, unless someone else have found higher capacities that are just as reliable.


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## roadwarrior (Oct 14, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> Sounds like you might prefer the Pros.
> 
> I have another idea. This one needs confirmation from someone who is more knowledgeable than I am.
> 
> ...



Yep, anything less than high capacity batteries will seem to induce constant recharging. However, without the proper charger, its a guessing game right now. 

May have to do a 180 and forget about the LSD preference and go with strictly HSD higher capacity as my priority. 

Once I get my charger, I am thinking of initially trying both though. As is in a set of Pros and some 2700 Powerex.


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## roadwarrior (Oct 14, 2015)

MidnightDistortions said:


> Chances are is that you are not getting the full capacity of the cells, using dumb chargers won't help either. If you got a multimeter what is the reading on those cells when you pull them out?
> 
> Here's a general guideline at resting voltages,
> 
> ...



No voltage meter in my inventory.  

I will definitely look into the Powerex cells. LSD may not be as important as I thought in my application. 


Due to not having the proper charger yet, once I do get it, I may just get a set of both Pros and Powerex to try and go from there. 

I will post the Energizer run times, if for anything to see how they compare to the CORUNS. 


Thanks a million guys!


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## roadwarrior (Oct 15, 2015)

Pulled the trigger today on a quad of Eneloop Pros AAs and a quad of Maha Powerex 2700mAh AAs. 

Will also be running over to Wally World this weekend and see about picking up a quad of Duracell 2400mAh Ion Core AAs aka, "Duraloops". 

Thanks for all the help guys! :thanks:


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## Kurt_Woloch (Oct 20, 2015)

Going with the original question, there are some criteria which for me makes a device a high-drain one:
A high drain device would be:
- any device that comes with rechargeable batteries (vs. alkalines or even zinc-carbon)
- any device where the manufacturer recommends using rechargeable batteries (vs. alkalines)
- any device where rechargeable batteries give a longer runtime per charge than alkalines (OK, this one is hard to judge since it also depends on the capacities of both)
- any device that hits rechargeables so hard that it's not even able to display 100% capacity with all rechargeables (some digital cameras do this)
- any device where alkalines typically last only a few months or less (this, however, is dependent from personal usage patterns, not so much of the device itself unless the device is absolutely unable to use up a battery that fast, such as a wall clock)

But these criteria say nothing about the decision between regular Eneloops or Eneloop Pro's / Duraloops except for some extreme cases, since the difference between these two types of battery rather has to do with cycle life and life per cycle, which is rather up to your personal preferences. Do you prefer a battery that lasts a bit longer at the cost of cycle life, or a battery that lasts a bit shorter, but will serve you for a long time? In this case, the drain level of the device is almost no indication of which battery would be advisable.

In your case with the scanner, regular Eneloops would give you maybe 7-8 hours of runtime, while the Pros give you 9-10 hours. However, if you use up 7.7 hours of runtime per day, which basically means you have to recharge the batteries every day, regular Eneloops should last you about two years (at least those of the current generation) while you may have to replace the Pro's after only 6 months of service. It depends on you if it's worth it to you to have that extra bit of runtime...

Another tip of mine in this case would be that if you really nearly use up a charge in the course of a day, you should routinely take out and recharge the batteries at a set time of day, i.e. when you go to sleep (unless you have to use the scanner during the night as well). This should prevent the batteries from running too low, which improves their cycle life (unless you fully discharge them on charging them every time, but I'd strongly advise against doing that).

The high drain thing is more at play if you want to decide between NiMh and Alkaline batteries, or between Alkalines and Lithium primaries, because in that case the drain rate makes a huge difference... Alkalines will last a bit longer than NiMh's in low drain devices, but much shorter in high-drain ones, while the capacity of Lithiums is much more constant, similar to NiMh's, but they only pay off in certain cases.


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## roadwarrior (Oct 20, 2015)

Good info. I already decided to go the higher mAh route. Longer run times is my preference right now. Of course that may change with time if the costs of replacing batteries start out weighing my desire for longer run times... 

I am hoping the investment I made in the Maha might offset some of those replacement costs by prolonging my batteries. If I can get 3 to 4 years out of a quad of Pros, I would be happy. As far as my HSDs, 6 months to a year would be nice.....but only time will tell with those. I get about 2-3 days of battery use out of my scanner, which for me equals about 8-9 hours of on and off use. I am not an all day listener...At most it may be 4-5 hours on a heavy listening day, most days it 2-3 hours. 

Been playing more with the charger than the scanner lately.


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## Kurt_Woloch (Oct 21, 2015)

Well, if you can get 3-4 years out of a quad of Pros, in my opinion, depends on how heavily they get used. As far as I can tell, you now have 4 sets of batteries... the Energizers, the CORUN's, the Powerex's and the Eneloop Pro's. How do you rotate those now? Are you using the two newly bought quads alternatingly, or are the other two quads still in the mix as well? Also, do you use the batteries for the scanner only or also for other devices?

If we assume that you rotate between the Eneloop Pro's and the Powerex's now, each of those two quads would get a cycle about every 5 days, so each set does 73 cycles a year. So 3 to 4 years out of a quad of Pros would be 220-290 cycles. You might get that, but only if you don't totally drain the batteries every time. I don't know how much charge is left when the low battery indicator comes on (ever tried for how much long the scanner continues to run once that happens?). The rated cycle count of 500 would give you 7 years, while the tested cycle count of about 150 would give you 2 years. As for the Powerex's, I couldn't find any info on how many cycles they are rated for, but if you put them at 6 months to a year, that would correspond to only 36 to 73 cycles. I don't know if they will do that much less cycles than an Eneloop Pro... maybe you'll get 40% less, but I haven't seen a NiMh battery rated below 300 cycles, though there may be some that are actually that bad. ;-)


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## roadwarrior (Oct 21, 2015)

Kurt_Woloch said:


> Well, if you can get 3-4 years out of a quad of Pros, in my opinion, depends on how heavily they get used. As far as I can tell, you now have 4 sets of batteries... the Energizers, the CORUN's, the Powerex's and the Eneloop Pro's. How do you rotate those now? Are you using the two newly bought quads alternatingly, or are the other two quads still in the mix as well? Also, do you use the batteries for the scanner only or also for other devices?
> 
> If we assume that you rotate between the Eneloop Pro's and the Powerex's now, each of those two quads would get a cycle about every 5 days, so each set does 73 cycles a year. So 3 to 4 years out of a quad of Pros would be 220-290 cycles. You might get that, but only if you don't totally drain the batteries every time. I don't know how much charge is left when the low battery indicator comes on (ever tried for how much long the scanner continues to run once that happens?). The rated cycle count of 500 would give you 7 years, while the tested cycle count of about 150 would give you 2 years. As for the Powerex's, I couldn't find any info on how many cycles they are rated for, but if you put them at 6 months to a year, that would correspond to only 36 to 73 cycles. I don't know if they will do that much less cycles than an Eneloop Pro... maybe you'll get 40% less, but I haven't seen a NiMh battery rated below 300 cycles, though there may be some that are actually that bad. ;-)



Actually as of right now, just three. Energizers, Duracell and the CORUN. Supposed to be getting my Pros and Powerex today from Amazon. 

I have been rotating them out as I get the low-battery alert from the scanner. Got the CORUN in it now with the Energizers and Duracells stored fully charged, waiting for use. 

The batteries only get used in the scanner. 

This was the discharge mAh on the Duracells after the low-battery alert on the scanner:
1-18
2-164
3-141
4-135

Have not discharged the others after the low battery alert to see what hey have left. 

Kind of been discussing that with some other members over here too:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...H-C9000-today!-But-I-need-some-beginners-help


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## b.have (Feb 1, 2020)

Kurt_Woloch said:


> Going with the original question, there are some criteria which for me makes a device a high-drain one:
> - any device that comes with rechargeable batteries (vs. alkalines or even zinc-carbon)
> - any device where the manufacturer recommends using rechargeable batteries (vs. alkalines)
> - any device where rechargeable batteries give a longer runtime per charge than alkalines (OK, this one is hard to judge since it also depends on the capacities of both)
> ...



I just wanted to thank [name]Kurt_Woloch[/name] for these great tips. I'm new to LI-ION rechargeable technology and have made some spectacular purchasing blunders for which I could kick myself for not having researched where the PROS gather to discuss what I now realize is an impossibly technical range of products no amateur should spend even one dollar on before researching thoroughly first: This forum, in other words (I just registered).

I'm a disabled senior who lives below the poverty line and am that very person who "use up [to] 7.7 hours of runtime per day" -- more, in fact, and everyday -- living in a derelict house with no electricity and no gas (but a hot water heater that PG&E inexplicably has allowed to remain on!). 

I'm here to hunt down the cheapest way to keep a SmartPhone online 8+ hrs/day, everyday -- and various portable lighting devices lit in a minimum of 4 points in this house so I don't keep injuring myself when darkness sets in -- as well as different flashlights (I'm a nighttime reader).

Better late to have discovered candlepowerforums than never (HIGH DRAIN indeed). Wonderful post, thank you again.


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