# 100W Ballast (80W Output) & Light Kit



## stollman (Mar 18, 2010)

Hello fellow CPF brethren. I am currently working on making a 200W Vector 192 BFL (Big _______ Light). Over the past 2 months I have been scouring the Internet, and found a distributor in China who sells YAO ballasts along with bulbs. I contacted YAO to confirm some of the specifications of their 100W ballast.

*For Your Information……..*

Manufacturer:
*· *YAO HID, http://www.yao-hid.cn/

YAO 100W Ballast:
· Mfg P/N: YAO-E-100W/10-18V-HID
· Input Voltage: Min 10V/ Max 18V 
· Efficiency: 85-90% per YAO
· Output to Bulb (at 14.8V battery input): 86 watts per my test on 04/25/10 (77 Volts at 1.12 amps)
· Current Rating: 8.5 Amps 
· Operating Temp: -40 - +85
· Ballast Dimension: See Pic 
*·* Warranty: 12 months

Temperature Test.
I used (2) 12v, 7 amp hour SLA batteries and a Fluke Temperature Gage to take measurements: The room temperature was 70 degrees Fahrenheit. Each 12V battery ran the ballast between 15-16 minutes. You definitely want to mount these on the outside of the light! I also plan to install spacers between the ballast and Vector 192 host to allow for better air flow (cooling).
o 10 Minutes: 111 Degrees
o 15 Minutes: 117 Degrees
o 20 Minutes: 120 Degrees
o 25 Minutes: 130 Degrees
o 30 Minutes: 132 Degrees

Distributor in China:
· Company: Wonper
· Contact: Jerry Shen (Jie Shen)
· Email: [email protected]

100W Kit:
· Includes (1) 100W Ballast and (1) 100W Bulb. Any temp (i.e. 4300k) and configuration (i.e. H7) is available. Bulb is generic (rated 3000 hrs).

Cost (USD):
· $155.00 for (2) Kits – (2) 100W Ballast and (2) 100W Bulb
· $50.00 for Air Shipping (delivery in 1 week after shipment)
· Western Union Fee: $14.00

Payment Terms:
· Distributor accepts only Western Union
· Payment made to: Jie Shen, No.1 Fengqing Street, Haiyan, Zhejiang, China (Seller address not really required by Western Union. They assign a control number for the Seller to claim their money)

Comments:
· My HID Background: I personally own an L35, Oracle 35W, Mule 35/80W, Barn Burner 80W
· I am not recommending the Distributor mentioned above. I am just passing on his information in this posting. Another supplier (Spark Electron) quoted the same ballast kit at $190.00 for two units. 
· I would say these are not the best quality ballasts (Barn Burner ballast from XeVision is far superior), but they are inexpensive. 
· Performance and endurance of the ballast and bulb are unknown, but YAO is a good company in my opinion (I own their 35/80W Mule).
· I did not actually test/measure the output watts of the ballast because high voltage scares me. I am relying on what YAO told me. I will say the bulb gets freak’in bright!
· Regarding my transaction with the Distributor, Jerry has been very good in communicating back and forth via email answering various questions. Once he received payment, he shipped my order within a few days.
· YAO makes a 24v version of this ballast that will put out 100 watts from what they told me. The downside besides the size of a 25.9v battery is its cost. The cost of a 5.7ah, 25.9v battery is a little over $200 from BatterySpace.com, making it somewhat cost prohibitive in my book. You can purchase a 14.8V, 5ah from HobbyKing.com for $30 bucks. For a VEC192 mod, you’ll want to use two batteries. Two 14.8V HobbyKing batteries will fit inside the Vector 192 host.
· YAO recommended using a 14.8V battery with their 10-18v ballast. I am considering one of the following:

Battery Option #1:
· Flightmax, 4S1P, 14.8V, 5000mah, 15C constant, 20-22C Burst, 140 x 34 x 52, $30.00
· http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6500

Battery Option #2:
· Rhino, 4S1P, 14.8V, 4900mah, 20C constant, 30C Burst, 165 x 32 x 42, $51.95
· http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7299

Battery Option #3:
· Blue Lip, 4S1P, 14.8V, 5000mah, 20C constant, 20-40 Burst, 148 x 50 x 35, $44.70
· http://www.hobbypartz.com/83p-5000mah-4s1p-148-20c.html
















Closing Comments: 
* I hope to have my Vector mod done in a few weeks. 
* I’ll post a thread on how I built it and some 16k lumen (hopefully) output shots. 
* Expected build cost including light, ballast kits, lith batteries, and misc parts is around: $380.00 USD


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## SmurfTacular (Mar 18, 2010)

lol, BFL. Love the name.

Do you sell these only in pairs? Or can I buy just one ballast and one bulb?


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## XeRay (Mar 18, 2010)

YAO 100W Ballast:
· Mfg P/N: YAO-E-100W/10-18V-HID
· Input Voltage: Min 10V/ Max 18V 
· Efficiency: 85-90% per YAO
· Output (at 14.8V battery input): 80 watts per YAO
· Current Rating: 8.5 Amps 
· Operating Temp: -40 - +85

Mike,

Based on 14.8 Volts input and 8.5 amps above, that would be about 126 watts. Maybe that's starting amps.

Assuming that 8.5 is not the steady state current but the 100 watts is input wattage at SS and 80 is output wattage, the ballast is 80% efficient not 85-90%. I would find anything higher than 85% to be doubtful because of the expensive components required to do it. I doubt they have a planar core transformer inside. The center section of the ballast case being thick and no fins is likely where the more traditional wound transformer is located. 
Without a high frequency and very efficient planar transformer anything better than 85% is extremely unlikely. And the other more expensive components push the likelihood down to the 78-83% as the probable range. They try to keep costs down and sell prices down to make it possible to move some volume in the very price sensitive lower end markets.


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## stollman (Mar 18, 2010)

To: Smurftacular

I am not a seller. If you have an interest in purchasing (1) unit, you can email the Distributor in the post. 

To: Xeray

Yea Dan, I expect the the ballast to be 80ish% efficient, and the percentage YAO told me may have some marketing fluff in it. I was going to have one of my electrician buddies test the output based on BVH's "how to" thread, but when he saw the 23kv high voltage warning on the output side, he said nah baby nah. Needless to say, if a trained electrician is worried about getting fried, I ain't gonna try it. Your comment on its market placement and construction is probably accurate based on your experience. I figured for the price ($200) for two kits, and my application, it was worth giving it ago. I still have an eye out for a true 100W output, 12v kit. I've got an extra VEC 192 stowed away for that day.


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## liteitup (Mar 18, 2010)

FYI that bulbs appears to be the exact same bulb(judging from the packaging) that are shipped with the 35w and 55w chinese kits... i kind of question that bulb living at 80bulb watts so id be cautious with it... check out morepowers thread where his generic china bulb got distorted running at high wattage. it may be rated for a 100 watt ballast (doubt it) but just watch the arc chamber for distortion and bulging.


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## stollman (Mar 20, 2010)

Reply to Liteitup:

I compared the "100W" Chinese bulb to my 50W Fatboy. The node in the Chinese bulb is a little smaller than the Fatboy.


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## liteitup (Mar 20, 2010)

stollman said:


> Reply to Liteitup:
> 
> I compared the "100W" Chinese bulb to my 50W Fatboy. The node in the Chinese bulb is a little smaller than the Fatboy.



well thats promising hopefully they did design the bulb around that power level!


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## lasersandlights (Mar 25, 2010)

Is this the highest possible in an HID configuration for a light? How many lumens does this have and how does it compare in output to a 50W or 70W light?


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## XeRay (Mar 25, 2010)

stollman said:


> Reply to Liteitup:
> 
> I compared the "100W" Chinese bulb to my 50W Fatboy. The node in the Chinese bulb is a little smaller than the Fatboy.


 
There is a direct correlation between arc chamber size and power handling capability also arc chamber glass thickness. The fatboy should not be run past 80 watts for good life (acceptable) and reliability. Based on what you are saying they might be "good" for 70-75 watts but not with any good reliability beyond that. I guess if they are cheap enough who cares unless they take your ballast out with them when they do go.


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## stollman (Mar 25, 2010)

Reply to lasersandlights:

I have not found a 12v ballast that puts out more than 80 watts. There may be some out there, but I have not been able to find them. They do make 24v ballasts that will put out 100 watts, the battery is much larger and more costly than the 12v, making home built mods too expensive in my book.

Reply to XeRay:

The seller of the ballast & bulb kit said the bulb could handle 80 watts. I also contacted two Ebay sellers of the same bulb, and they too said it would handle 80 watts, but the life of the bulb would be noticeable impacted. My application is to light up large areas in caves for video work. I only plan on operating the light up to 10 minutes at a time. Based on this, the Chinese bulbs that came with the kit may work out fine. When I build the light, I’ll do some run tests to see if there is any bulb deformation. If I were going to operate the light at a longer runtime (30+ minutes), then I would probably go with the Philips Fatboys (adds $230 to the build cost for two bulbs and wire assemblies).

Question: Do you trust what the Ebay sellers told you about the bulbs running at 80 watts?
Answer: Questionable. I’ll see how well the bulbs hold up during some run tests.


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## XeRay (Mar 25, 2010)

stollman said:


> I have not found a 12v ballast that puts out more than 80 watts. There may be some out there, but I have not been able to find them. They do make 24v ballasts that will put out 100 watts, the battery is much larger and more costly than the 12v, making home built mods too expensive in my book.


 
The higher the wattage the harder it is to do with 12V. 75-80 watt is the practical limit at 12V and still be able to manage the heat from efficiency losses.


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## Morepower! (Mar 26, 2010)

XeRay said:


> The higher the wattage the harder it is to do with 12V. 75-80 watt is the practical limit at 12V and still be able to manage the heat through efficiency losses.


 
That is interesting because that explains alot about what I have experienced while mucking around with these ballasts. The rated input voltage on the one's I have is between 9V and 36V. If I try running them @ high wattage @ 12V they are not happy, they seem to run hotter(which I just thought was my imagination) and they don't have a nice crisp tone to them. But when I increase the input voltage to 14.8V they seem much happier.


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## cccpull (Mar 26, 2010)

stollman said:


> Reply to lasersandlights:
> 
> I have not found a 12v ballast that puts out more than 80 watts. There may be some out there, but I have not been able to find them. They do make 24v ballasts that will put out 100 watts, the battery is much larger and more costly than the 12v, making home built mods too expensive in my book.



Why not just run your 2-12volt sla batteries in series and have your 24 volts.


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## stollman (Mar 26, 2010)

To: CCCPULL

Why not just run your 2-12volt sla batteries in series and have your 24 volts?

Yes, you could do this, and SLA's are inexpensive. They are also bulky and heavy.

As it applies to a Vector 192 Mod (my application), which has twin beams:
* (2) SLA batteries will not fit in the Vector host. The added bulk greatly affects portability, since the batteries would have to be staged in a backpack or something.
* Adding another 7ah SLA adds another 5 pounds. I am not interested in hauling around 10 lbs of batteries besides having to carry a light.
* You could only run (1) light at a 100w output. I am trying to power (2) lights at once. Using two 14.8v LiPo batteries to power two bulbs/ballasts, I'll get 160w output. Two Flightmax 5000mah LiPo batteries will fit inside the Vector 192 host.

If you are modifying a light that only has one reflector (i.e. Thor), the two SLA's will not fit in the Thor host either, so again you'll have to put them in a backpack or something. Seems like an ackward arrangement to me.


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## cccpull (Mar 26, 2010)

stollman said:


> To: CCCPULL
> 
> Why not just run your 2-12volt sla batteries in series and have your 24 volts?
> 
> ...



I have a Pro Favorite 20 million deal and at 10.5 lbs it's already a monster to tug around. Now your Vec192 plus the external ballasts must be at close to 12-13lbs.. This is not going to be a light to take your dog for a walk, this will probably end up being a set down and point light. The reason I mentioned the extra sla was because you seem to already have 2, and I would think you could attach a battery box to the bottom of the Vector. It would be the more economical (battery-wise) route to get your 24 volts and arrive at your 200 watt goal.
It's already heavy, big, and bright, so it would be heavier, bigger and much brighter. Just a thought.


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## stollman (Mar 26, 2010)

To: CCCPULL

I am dumpng the SLA and going with (2) Flightmax, 5000mah, 14.8v LiPo batteries to power two ballasts. They both will fit inside the host. That will dump a considerable amount of weight by getting rid of the 5 lbs SLA. The ballasts will add a little weight, but not too much. The light is bulky due to the twin reflectors, but it should be reasonably portable (less weight than the original light with the SLA). I'm trading off output for weight. I would also mention the 12v, 7ah SLA only ran the ballast for 15 mintues before the voltage dropped off. I hope to get a longer runtime with the 14.8V LiPo's (waiting for them to ship from HobbyKing).


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## Lips (Mar 27, 2010)

.





The manufacturer (they make automotive ballast & related and are not listed in the thread, yet!) list the black finned ballast as



input 9 - 16 volts
normal 13.5 volts
temp -40 to 105 c
Max Input Current 9 amps dropping in 2 seconds to 3.2 amps for normal current...


I don't have a stock ballast (unmodified) in hand to test output but I'm wondering if normal operating current is 3.2 amps could the ballast put out 75w to the bulb? Given that it's an automotive ballast it would have to be off-road to be street legal? 

Somebody put a meter on it! It's a nice ballast!





.


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## liteitup (Mar 27, 2010)

you should see close to true MAH ratings with those lipos... 

In my project i have a cheap ebay lipo (40 bucks for 2 14.8v 4000mah) and i can pull 3600 mah out of them safely when one of the cells reaches 3.2 volts, but its not worth it to risk cycle life to try and get the last 10%.


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## liteitup (Mar 27, 2010)

Lips said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



not exactly sure what your trying to say here? but number one, none of these hid kits would be street legal ""technically"", unless your car came with hids factory and you didnt exceed the wattage of the factory kit. 

secondly 16volt input is max and 3.2 amps would only be 51 watts. not sure where the 75 watts comes from in your example? the 3.2 amps would have to be at a higher input voltage, 24 volts would give you 76 watts to the ballast.


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## XeRay (Mar 27, 2010)

Lips said:


> input 9 - 16 volts
> normal 13.5 volts
> temp -40 to 105 c
> Max Input Current 9 amps dropping in 2 seconds to 3.2 amps for normal current...
> ...


 
3.2 X 13.5 = 43 watts input 35-37 watts output, depending on efficiency.


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## SmurfTacular (Mar 29, 2010)

So, can anyone with legitimate evidence say that these actually output 80W? I want to buy this but I don't want to take the risk of it being under spec.


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## stollman (Mar 29, 2010)

I was going to have my electrician buddy use BVH's procedure for checking output, but when he saw the high voltage warning of (23kv), he backed out. If he wasn't going to risk it, neither was I. Regarding the 80 watts, I am going off what the manufacturer told me. I'm going to build a Vector 192 and will post some beam shots against my 80W Mule and Barn Burner in a couple of weeks.


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## Morepower! (Mar 30, 2010)

stollman said:


> I was going to have my electrician buddy use BVH's procedure for checking output, but when he saw the high voltage warning of (23kv), he backed out. If he wasn't going to risk it, neither was I. Regarding the 80 watts, I am going off what the manufacturer told me. I'm going to build a Vector 192 and will post some beam shots against my 80W Mule and Barn Burner in a couple of weeks.


 
Tell your buddy it is only a 23KV pulse to light the bulb(not disimilar to piezo ignition for the BBQ), SS voltage is 90-100V AC. I copped I hit from the pulse once through a break in some insulation in one of the meter probes, it really didn't phase me. I would have thought it would have been much worse than it was. So tell him to measure that puppy !


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## stollman (Apr 25, 2010)

I went out and bought a clamp meter today to measure the output to the bulb....

77 Volts at 1.12 amps - 86 watts

I'll be posting my build notes on my Vector 192 mod in a couple of days. Not as pretty as BVH's, but it should put out a tad over 16000 lumens


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## XeRay (Apr 25, 2010)

stollman said:


> I went out and bought a clamp meter today to measure the output to the bulb....
> 
> 77 Volts at 1.12 amps - 86 watts
> 
> I'll be posting my build notes on my Vector 192 mod in a couple of days. Not as pretty as BVH's, but it should put out a tad over 16000 lumens


 
How did you measure the output volts ?? It is likely AC as well ??


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## stollman (Apr 26, 2010)

Output is AC

I bought a clamp meter from Lowes and used it to measure the amps and volts to the bulbs. The amp part was easy. Just ran the red lead wire to the bulb through clamp section.

The volts was a little more challening. I used two wires, stripped both ends and then stripped a section out of the middle. I used the wires to bridge the connection between the bulb connectors and the ballast connectors. Then I used the AC meter function & probes to measure the voltage from the stripped center section of the wire. I followed BVH's procedure, which worked well.


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