# Why the favoritism?



## AardvarkSagus (Jun 1, 2007)

I have an interesting question to pose. I don't want to start any flame wars here, that is not my intention. I am just wondering about one certain little aspect of our current flashlight prejudice. I see an entire host of people ascribing to the doctrine of Surefire, Hoards of people joining the relatively recent upheaval of the Fenix cult (both companies have respect from me and I have my own personal favorite lights from each) but another company that I feel does a pretty good job gets ignored. What about Pila? Why is it that any Pila thread I see here gets ignored by the masses? I just did a fairly extensive review of the Pila GL2 with the Cree LED module. I personally thought it was a fantastic light. Why is it that I so rarely see anyone here talk about them? I first started liking Pila from the reviews on flashlightreviews.com. I saw the runtimes of the luxeon LED module and couldn't believe how perfect the regulation was. That's the way I like my lights. Why is it that so few people notice them?

Of course the likely scenario is that this thread will also die since it is about Pila. That is the way things seem to go.


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## mossyoak (Jun 1, 2007)

i guess pila isnt that appealing to people, becasue other wise it would be popular, we dont purposely ignore certain companies products.


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## ACMarina (Jun 1, 2007)

What do they have to offer that others don't?? I could be pursuaded to like any light, but to find a place in the "favorite" list it has to be exclusive in some way..


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## AardvarkSagus (Jun 1, 2007)

mossyoak said:


> i guess pila isnt that appealing to people, becasue other wise it would be popular, we dont purposely ignore certain companies products.


Yeah, I know nobody is intentionally trying to boycott them, I am just trying to find out what about them doesn't appeal to the masses.


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## BUZ (Jun 1, 2007)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Yeah, I know nobody is intentionally trying to boycott them, I am just trying to find out what about them doesn't appeal to the masses.




Gr8 review, IMO the new pilas aren't very attractive (think that's why most tend to ignore them) however I could be wrong!


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## AardvarkSagus (Jun 1, 2007)

BUZ said:


> Gr8 review, IMO the new pilas aren't very attractive (think that's why most tend to ignore them) however I could be wrong!


Thanks!
As for the aesthetics, that'd be an opinion that I hold differently then. I find the Pila's to be uniquely refreshing by not looking like every other light on the market.


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## vic2367 (Jun 1, 2007)

i also dont like the looks of the pila line,,,,just me though,,,


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## BUZ (Jun 1, 2007)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Thanks!
> As for the aesthetics, that'd be an opinion that I hold differently then. I find the Pila's to be uniquely refreshing by not looking like every other light on the market.



To each his own! One thing I do like about them is that they are built like tanks! :thumbsup:


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## fieldops (Jun 1, 2007)

I think certain products capture people's attention in different ways. surefire has an excellent history and was one of the first on the block for innovative lights. Fenix has about the quickest time to market with new products developed from consumer input and new LEDs. Pila is fine, but just has not become a favorite of most customers. Sometimes, it does not even have to be the best product to be popular. It could be said that beta was the better VCR, but VHS became the standard. You never really know how people will react to market offerings.


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## Ogg Vorbis (Jun 1, 2007)

Well it sounds like a good light but with so many others out there i guess it falls down to personal taste, and i personally am not taken in by it's design. To be honest, i've never heard of Pila untill now, but i'm pretty new to CPF...

I'll definatly keep an out out for their products though


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## easilyled (Jun 1, 2007)

It seems to be a very robust, well-built light.

However the design of Surefire lights is much more pleasing to me
personally.

I like the angles, edges, knurling, switches, clips, in fact everything
about the Surefire design - also the fact that one can play lego with
so many different lights in the Surefire range and other ranges designed
around the E-series lights like McGizmo's Aleph-series, Vital-Gear bodies,
Balrag bodies and a whole host of enticing parts by TB, Leef, Mirage-Man etc.


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## mchlwise (Jun 1, 2007)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Thanks!
> As for the aesthetics, that'd be an opinion that I hold differently then. I find the Pila's to be uniquely refreshing by not looking like every other light on the market.



They certainly are unique. 

Personally, I look at them and quickly say "Eeew. No." :shakehead


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## greenLED (Jun 1, 2007)

AardvarkSagus said:


> ...I am just trying to find out what about them doesn't appeal to the masses.


I've been trying to figure that one out for a looooong time. Maybe I'm biased (after all I have 2 GL3's and a GL4), but Pilas are incredibly well made (think Swiss engineering), offer a wide variety of options and accessories, are flexible on the use of primary or rechargeable batteries, and a long list of other features. And all that without the high price tag that some customs or other "common" manufacturers have.

:shrug: I simply don't get it, but I do try to point them out when people ask about potential lights they could get. From the reviews I've seen, the new GL2 with Cree drop-in is a superb light, and yet it doesn't get as much attention as other "lesser" lights.

Incidentally, I do own several other brands, including SF, Fenix, Nuwai, etc.


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## sygyzy (Jun 1, 2007)

Has Pila done anything new since their batteries and lights came out 2-3 years ago? Maybe that's the problem. I don't know.

Also, I want to know what Fenix lights are so popular? They seem to be yet another cheap manufacturer, but everyone loves them. Before I left, there were only a handful of fly by night mfg's and only half of those got any talk on this forum. The rest were ignored.

Now there are dozens of them and everyone is excited about the lights. What happened?


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## kelmo (Jun 1, 2007)

I got in way to deep with my Surefire collection before I found out about Pila products. I personally like there look. I just can't justify collecting a new line of lights. They are just like potatoe chips, you just can't have one...


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## powernoodle (Jun 1, 2007)

I don't think that anyone has anything against Pila. Rather, it has (what seems) a rather limited number of retail outlets, limited "buzz" on CPF or elsewhere, and (again, its seems to me) no products which cannot be found at SF or elsewhere. 

I could be way off the mark here, but I've been around here for a little while now and can't name you even one Pila light. There just has never been any compelling reason for me to get excited about Pila.

Edited to add:



> Also, I want to know what Fenix lights are so popular?



Almost every one of their new offerings has something very cool about it. The EO, for example, is not spendy, and gives several hours of flat output on a easy-to-find AAA. The P1 when it came out was (as still is), very small and very bright and a great EDC light. The L0D CE is a small, multilevel light that is freakishly bright. All of the Fenix Crees are scary bright for that matter. I could go on and on. And Fenix markets them incrementally, so that each light is one step "better" than its predecessor, giving me an "excuse" to buy almost every new light. Throw in the well-liked vendors of Fenix here at CPF and you have a winning combo. For months now, I've EDC-ed nothing but Fenix lights despite the fact that I have more than my fair share of EDC lights to choose from. (see link in sig line). Its because they make great lights.

JMO. :thumbsup:

cheers


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## greenLED (Jun 1, 2007)

sygyzy said:


> Has Pila done anything new since their batteries and lights came out 2-3 years ago? Maybe that's the problem. I don't know.


They split from WE-style looks and now have their own style. Their new LA's are far superior from the original ones, they offer Cree drop-ins... heck, they even have a programmable controller add-on for their lights (aka CODEX).

Like I said, :shrug:


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## knot (Jun 1, 2007)

Ultimately, all I care about is performance - so I put an LED drop-in in my minimag. Now all I wish for is a pocket clip for my minimag. If I had the money, I would perhaps care more about style.


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## bondr006 (Jun 1, 2007)

Very nice review. Where can you find these lights. I'd be interested in at least looking at one.


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## WadeF (Jun 1, 2007)

sygyzy said:


> Also, I want to know what Fenix lights are so popular? They seem to be yet another cheap manufacturer, but everyone loves them. Before I left, there were only a handful of fly by night mfg's and only half of those got any talk on this forum. The rest were ignored.


 
Why Fenix lights are so popular? For the money the are good quality, they offer a lot of output for the money, they have great run times for the money, they are very small and easy to carry. Did I mention they're a great deal? 

I think the masses would prefer a light like the P1D-CE which can easily be carried, put on a key chain, etc, yet puts out a lot of light, over a tactical flash light that could take a bullet, be run over, sink deeper into the water, and maybe be a little brighter. 

I know for me, while I think the big tactical lights are cool, I'd rather have something as small as possible with a lot of output. The Fenix's exceed my needs and aren't hard on my wallet. I think this is why they are so popular.


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## BlackDecker (Jun 1, 2007)

I don't see this as any favoritism towards Surefire or Fenix. A lot of us here get our flashlight info from flashlightreviews.com. From scanning the reviews there, there isn't much offered by Pila. They don't seem to offer the variety, price, or quick-to-market items that Fenix offers.


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## Archangel (Jun 1, 2007)

knot- People don't buy Pila torches for style. They buy them because they can be counted on to get the job done in the worst of situations.


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## greenLED (Jun 1, 2007)

WadeF said:


> I think the masses would prefer a light like the P1D-CE which can easily be carried, put on a key chain, etc, yet puts out a lot of light, over a tactical flash light that could take a bullet, be run over, sink deeper into the water, and maybe be a little brighter.


Interesting thought... that makes me think that the bulk of CPF is now shifting onto a "mass" mentality (which is not necessarily a bad thing, of course). But, as you and Archangel point out, there are more specialized niches where a Fenix simply wouldn't be a reliable light.

Incidentally, and since we're talking about niches... Pila clickies are "stiff" because they're designed to not activate with undewater pressure. That is, if you're a diver in the middle of a covert mission, you don't want your light turning on when you're submerged and approaching your target... that'd be bad ju-ju. 

A Fenix light might not even be able to withstand the pressure of a deep-water dive, much less provide this built-in feature designed to increase the safety of underwater "operators". That's not to say Fenix are subpar, I'm trying to clarify the differences in their target users. For those of us who don't dive at night to plant mines, a Fenix may fill our needs.

That said, I like to use "overengineered" items for regular use & abuse, because they provide me with a safety net because of their added durability and reliability. ...and I also carry AA-based Fenixes now and then. 



Bondr006, JonSidneyB (jsburlysflashlights.com) is an outstanding Pila dealer. I wouldn't have a link in my sigline if I thought any differently (And, no, I'm not commercially associated with him, or get anything in return. I've personally met Mr. & Mrs. Pila and I know they're committed to making top-notch products.)


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## luigi (Jun 1, 2007)

+1 to your question.
I also wrote a review of the GL2 with Cree and the Codex module, got a moderate number of responses but my impression was that there was no interest for the light.
I'm as puzzled as you are because Pila's are built as strong as Surefires and they have many interesting models and very good prices. 

Mistery.

Luigi


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## Art Vandelay (Jun 1, 2007)

Since you asked, I thought about getting a Pila once, but I decided to go with a Surefire. The shape of the Pila looked like it would be uncomfortable in my pocket. With the Surefire I can clip the light so the head is on the outside. Also, the Surefire was not bigger on the tail end. I thought the increase in diameter on the end would be an annoyance if I carried it in my pocket.

I do like one option Pila gives. Having LED lights on the one end and an incandescent on the other sounds cool.


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## thesurefire (Jun 1, 2007)

I just don’t see what they do that I don’t have another light for already, and I don’t have any desire to own one because there are so many new, unique and innovative lights I don’t have.

Before you tell me the idea of lighted tail caps is such a great one, tell me why it’s any different then putting a filter over a normal light source. If anything it strikes me as stupid because then there are twice as many things to break and you can turn the light on the wrong way and shine it in your face, or give away your position. 

I don’t like the fact that they (or most parts) are made in china. 

I also think the lights are ugly:green:. They look like lopsided barbells to me. 

I do like the fact that they are developing rechargeable battery technologies.

Prices are too much to warrant anything but the highest quality. For the price of a GL-2 I could have a surefireG2, a drop-in Cree module, and a box of batteries.

I REALLY don’t like their warranty. If they had a lifetime warranty I probably would buy one. 1 month on batteries, 1 year on chargers and programmable modules, and 2 years on everything else is not enough. I want a tool to last a lifetime, not 2 years.

If surefire had only had a 2 year warranty I would be out lots of money re-buying broken lights:mecry:. If their lights were of superior quality why wouldn’t they carry a superior warranty? :thinking:


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## MarNav1 (Jun 1, 2007)

I didn't know Pila made lights, I thought they made batteries and chargers
only. Who sells them? I haven't noticed them in the websites I frequent the most. Where are they made?


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## BGater (Jun 1, 2007)

Maybe its just the looks, first thing that catches my interest in a torch is the looks. Not that Pila is bad looking,they just dont trip my primer for some reason. Im probably missing out on some good lights. I also refuse to buy any more plastic body lights from any maker. I know some good ones are out there, I just dont like plastic. As long as we are happy with the lights we have and use, its all good. :shrug:


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## carrot (Jun 1, 2007)

Fenix was the first manufacturer to offer a good quality Luxeon 1AA light, the L1P in 2005. From there their popularity grew because their reputation for high quality at low cost generated a lot of buzz here and they extended their product line. Then came all the copycats and clones, some of which offer possibly "better" features, some of which are just plain worse. 

As for Pila, they make great lights, but it seems that a lot of people are looking for pocketability nowadays, especially with the new-fangled Cree and Seoul lights. Also, Wolf-Eyes, their biggest competitor due to the similarity of design, has a much greater distribution channel.


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## AardvarkSagus (Jun 1, 2007)

I know one place that they can be found is http://www.jsburlysflashlights.com/

Pila seems to be introducing things that no one ever hears of. I am surprised to see how many people are saying "Pila Who?" There aren't too terribly many lights out there that can begin to compete with the customizability of the Codex module and as far as Lego's goes...Pila's entire line is Modular. There are quite a few options to choose from. 

That being said, I hear what you are saying about the warranty. I love the security that a lifetime warranty gives, I just don't see myself needing to use it any time soon. These things are built to last it appears.


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## IMSabbel (Jun 1, 2007)

@ to OP:

Looking at that review, its an ugly brick, so obviously its not competing with the fenixs of the world.
So if you mention engineering quality as a peek, then you have to battle vs the surefire guys. And i guess that would go into the terrain of religious disputes...

This is no special olympics. There is no "somebody bothered to make it, so people have to love it" caveat.


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## Casual Flashlight User (Jun 1, 2007)

I only have eyes for Arc and HDS.

Other brands don't really interest me, so I'm unlikely to be browsing threads about "Rexlight's" or whatever...it's nothing personal. 


CFU


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## brightnorm (Jun 1, 2007)

I would say the main factors in Pila's relative lack of popularity are aesthetics (their somewhat "clunky" design) , incandescent beam "philosophy" (as of a couple of years ago) and price, especially for their batteries.

I had a PilaGL4 and G2/G2R. They were solid as a rock and built to last, if a bit bulky, but the beams were deliberately very wide so as to illuminate a large area. (I'm speaking of the incandescent models). At that time I considered Surefire (P60, P61 and up) a better compromise between throw and spread.

Pila's rechargeable batteries are among the best protected cells being produced, and their new two-independent channel chargers are very highly rated by Silverfox and others. Pila batteries have an enviable record of reliability and safety, but they are not cheap.

As for Fenix, their responsiveness to CPF user input and extraordinarily quick design-to-market time, along with a very favorable price/quality ratio have put them deservedly near the front of the (imported) pack.

For example, what light from any other manufacturer can equal the P3D-CE in diminutive size/weight, brightness level choice and ease of selection, ruler flat regulation (lithium primaries), extended runtime (over 2 hours flat output at max setting 120+ lumens), build quality (except for somewhat below par HA III), and reasonable price?

I usually carry a Fenix P1D-CE or P3D-CE as secondary light sources when hiking, but I don't depend on them for critical tasks because their reliability has not yet been proven, and their construction, while very good, isn't as robust as some of the top lights like the HDS line.

Brightnorm


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## greenLED (Jun 1, 2007)

brightnorm said:


> I had a PilaGL4 and G2/G2R. They were solid as a rock and built to last, if a bit bulky, but the beams were deliberately very wide so as to illuminate a large area.
> ...


BN, glad you're logged in finally. 

The new Pila lamp assemblies have a narrower beam; they're also much brighter and whiter than the original ones.


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## regulator (Jun 1, 2007)

*I really like the G2...*

I wanted a light that would run on the 18650 rechargable lithium batteries and the Pila G2 fit the bill. Surefire did not have anything I was looking for. I never really looked at Pila's until seeing a review right here of the G2. I think that you really appreciate them once you hold one and feel the quality. The chargers are a notch above the others as well.

Is is not a pocket light though. The shape does not slide in well - but it feels SO great in the hand. It is very balanced and solid. The beam on it is fantastic and much better than other lights I have used. The runtime is very good on the 1 cell also. And I hear there is a new LED Cree module that will be REGULATED using only the one 18650 battery!!! One is available with multiple outputs too - gotta get one!!!!!!


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## bones_708 (Jun 1, 2007)

For me it would be price and/or availability. They are not that widely sold and you have few options on who to buy from, sales, ect. They are also not inexpensive which makes me less likely to pick one up when they are basically in the same market as surefire. If I saw one cheap I would grab it but why go out of my way?


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## greenLED (Jun 1, 2007)

bones_708 said:


> They are also not inexpensive which makes me less likely to pick one up when they are basically in the same market as surefire.


 SF's are more expensive than Pila, and yet you are less likely to pick Pila over SF when price is considered?


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## waterboiler (Jun 1, 2007)

For me it is about access to 'play' with the lights before purchase. There are two places locally that carry SF and one that has Fenix. Nobody that I have found has Pila. I looked into Pila stuff a while back - seen some great reviews and was keen to buy a few, problem was that I was going to have to buy sight unseen.

Nothing against Pila or some of the other quality brands, it just comes down to availability for me. I use/collect/play with what I can get my hands on easily. I guess instant gratification plays a role here - while I have orderd a few lights on-line, for the price I like to see what I am getting first.


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## pec50 (Jun 1, 2007)

CFP has evolved, or perhaps changed is a better verb, over the years. Most of the early activity was generated by first responders, technical developers, and the like. Posts were typically technical, Surefire and ARC were the epitome of flashlight engineering, and the weighting of led vs. incandescent posts was quite the opposite of what we now see. Some legacy systems have garnered a following here, but each brand, including Pila, has seen its day on CPF as it introduced an innovation. I don't believe there is blatant favoritism, but rather a congenial history often favoring the early innovators and supporters of CPF. Posts like yours help to shape the thinking here so please continue your reviews.


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## GeorgePaul (Jun 1, 2007)

waterboiler said:


> For me it is about access to 'play' with the lights before purchase. There are two places locally that carry SF and one that has Fenix.



+1. I like to try things before I buy them. The only high end lights that are available around here (SoCal), as far as I know, are Inova, SureFire, Streamlight and Pelican. waterboiler -- Who sells Fenix lights in your area?


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## waterboiler (Jun 1, 2007)

GeorgePaul,

I am located near Toronto Ontario and for once being in Canada is not handicap for one of my interests. A local vendor has a 'booth' in a consignment-type shop near by and carries the Fenix stuff. Pretty good prices ( for Canada ) and seems to get the new stuff pretty fast too. This has not been good for my pocket book or flashlight problem


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## Archangel (Jun 1, 2007)

Since when is quality engineering a perk? I understand the "good enough" mentality, but just because Joe User doesn't see the need *for him* or want to spend the money for something that is designed and built to a higher standard, he shouldn't act like the need isn't out there. Last weekend's camping trip proved just fine that i need a torch that can take some abuse. (pause) That was a bit of a rant. Back to the original topic, Surefire and Fenix enjoy a near-constant buzz on CPF; call it critical mass. Other - i think more deserving - companies such as Pila, Central Tools and Heliotek are not blessed with that.


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## knot (Jun 1, 2007)

Archangel said:


> knot- People don't buy Pila torches for style. They buy them because they can be counted on to get the job done in the worst of situations.



For me, it would be for style. The minimag is ugly in comparison but gets the job done. In fact, I used this minimag to splice together and bypass the heater core hose together when my heater core in my truck went out. It now sports a terralux drop in.


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## BSCOTT1504 (Jun 1, 2007)

I think that Surefire gets a lot of buzz on CPF because most of us own at least one , and I for one feel they are worth every dime of their price! The look, the feel, the performance, and the quality of Surefire torches speaks for itself. Fenix lights are small, well-made, bright and affordable. I think their size appeals to a lot of people. I am personally buying more EDC size lights because I use them more. I'm sure that Pila makes fine lights and if more CPFers owned them there would be more threads!


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## TORCH_BOY (Jun 1, 2007)

I've noticed that [email protected] isn't as popular as before


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## greenlight (Jun 1, 2007)

I likes what I likes!


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## greenLED (Jun 1, 2007)

TORCH_BOY said:


> I've noticed that [email protected] isn't as popular as before


Their "new" LED line is vastly overwhemled by the march of technology coming from other companies. The 2AA minimag, which is still a light I cherish, is not even aesthetically pleasing in its LED form.


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## regulator (Jun 1, 2007)

I really like that the Pila G2 was designed to work with a 18650 battery. Many two Cr123 lights aren't. The 18650 provides a lot of power in a single rechargable lithium ion battery.

I'll be honest, before receiving my Pila there was nothing that overwhelmed my about the lights from pictures and readings. What is strange is that they are much nicer in person than in any pictures. Once you hold one in your hand and see the quality you can really appreciate they light (kinda like some high end watches). I have many lights and I think it is by far one of the best built and has a fantastic beam!

Another comparison: I think that Fenix lights offer a great light with some great features and some of the best electronics for the price (I just received a P3D that I like very much). But if you compare a Fenix to an Inova, you will find the Inova built better (but I think Fenix has better electronics and features). I think that Pila is on another level even compared with an Inova.


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## Handlobraesing (Jun 2, 2007)

I too notice favorable bias towards Fenix here too and unfavorable bias towards Mag, which can be seen by heading like [email protected], comments like "Innovation through litigation" etc.


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## knot (Jun 2, 2007)

regulator said:


> I really like that the Pila G2 was designed to work with a 18650 battery. Many two Cr123 lights aren't. The 18650 provides a lot of power in a single rechargable lithium ion battery.



I wonder if anyone makes, or could make, an 18650 body for a minimag head and tailcap. My terralux might love that or maybe too much voltage. Yeah I know, different thread.....


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## bones_708 (Jun 2, 2007)

greenLED said:


> SF's are more expensive than Pila, and yet you are less likely to pick Pila over SF when price is considered?


Yep, because I can walk into a shop and see what I'm getting, not look at a picture on a web site. There is also the great resale on all SF so you can change your mind and not lose to much. There is a much greater sales volume so you can at time get pretty good deals. Finally I know SF lights, have used them, and am comfortable with them. Pila I would have to get used to and there isn't a big reason for me to go out of my way to do so.


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## brightnorm (Jun 2, 2007)

greenLED said:


> BN, glad you're logged in finally.
> 
> The new Pila lamp assemblies have a narrower beam; they're also much brighter and whiter than the original ones.


 
Thanks. I can only log in within a post, and it never remembers me so I have to log in every time. The new Pilas sound interesting.

Brightnorm


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## AardvarkSagus (Jun 2, 2007)

brightnorm said:


> Thanks. I can only log in within a post, and it never remembers me so I have to log in every time. The new Pilas sound interesting.
> 
> Brightnorm


I am getting that same issue. New security measures possibly?

Out of curiousity, is there anyone here who likes the looks of the Pila products but doesn't purchase them for other reasons? Most people seem to be saying either "Who are they?" or "I don't like find them aesthetically pleasing."


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## Art Vandelay (Jun 2, 2007)

brightnorm said:


> Thanks. I can only log in within a post, and it never remembers me so I have to log in every time. The new Pilas sound interesting.
> 
> Brightnorm


Have you tried deleting your cookies, then restarting your browser and logging back on? That worked for me.


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## cy (Jun 2, 2007)

we all vote with our wallets!


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## mdocod (Jun 2, 2007)

Pila does have 1 significant advantage over stock SF lights.. and that is the compatibility with 18mm diameter rechargable cells. However...

One of the things that confuses me entirely, is the GL2 and GL4 lineup, which seems to ship entirely with 6V and 12V lamps, but they they suggest that it can be run on 1x or 2x 600P cells, underdriving either to a semi-dismal yellow, and they consider that a "good" configuration. The GL3 is the only one in the lineup that ships with an appropriate lamp for running li-ion cells.

Obviously the end-user could use a 9V lamp in the GL4 that would be whiter on the 2x600P setup, or could swap in a 3.7V D26 for the GL2 from another brand.. but with pila being "in the market" for rechargeable configurations, they really should build the configuration with optimal performance on rechargeables in mind. Wolf-Eyes is offering configurations that are pre-configured with 3.7V for 1 cell and 9V for 2 cell (168A size) that are better for that very reason IMO. 

As it stands right now. The *best* 18mm compatible configurations available are the leefbodies using SF compatible parts. The reason I say that this is the *best* is that when you buy these parts, you are buying pieces that are compatible with hundreds of possible "Surefire world" configurations. Choosing the appropriot lamp assembly and cells becomes the users responsibility, but at least the user gets optimal results with the setup, and can lego his/her way up or down to all sorts of various configurations. 

So... for optimal accessibility, compatibility, lego-ability, the SF route is the way to go. Next in line is building up on the Wolf-eyes linup, mostly just because of accessibility. The reputation of PTS and their great support for these lights has spread around here. 

In all cases, using Pila cells/charger for any 18mm setup is usually the best route.

well that's how I see it.


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## LED61 (Jun 2, 2007)

I have a Pila GL4. It's a good light but ugly looking, don't really care for it. My incan lineup also includes a couple SF M6's, which are a delight to hold and behold, and, my very favorite carry friendly Wolfeyes Raider. This last little light will use a couple rechargeable 18500's with a lumens factory EO-9 and is a real beauty. I am also in line for the WE lion M300, which I'm sure will also be very pleasing. 

I seem to be in most people's camp here about the lack of good looks with the Pila lights.


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## phil_vr (Jun 2, 2007)

Favoritism is an extention in many aspects of life. Flashlights could not be
an exception. 

Picture this:
You walk in a car dealership (preferably used ones - for variety)..
Normally your eye will fall first to your favorite brands like BMW, Mercedes,
Audi and I can guess that Hyundai and Chevy would be your last looks
(speaking hypothetically always - people tastes vary)..
Its all cars.. and it might be the shape, or the feel, the performance, or
just plain old stupid human taste and what catches the eye.. 

Coming back to our light passion, in absolute darkness even a Solitaire
might prove handy and so usefull. But in a camping it will definitelly not
get any attention or WOW effect by stunned people (like a disguised Mag85
would).

I love the feel of Maglites and their craftmanship even if I hate their performance
(aside mods of course). I love SF because of a more balance and "different" 
feel than all the rest of the lights, plus their support and extravaganza of 
parts and Lego features. Pila's look nice too and I will definitelly try them out
first chance, but like I mentioned above.. its all about people and their
likings. 

I will buy 2D plastic noname lights any moment of the day, for collecting, for
experimenting or moding, for fun, for their shape, for everything.. to me
a light is a light. My all around working and do-it-all house light its a Mini
Maglite with Niteize - just because I love the runtime and I-dont-care-if-it-
gets-scratched feature that this worn out light gives me. 

Hope those words give a good answer to your question..


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## brightnorm (Jun 3, 2007)

Art Vandelay said:


> Have you tried deleting your cookies, then restarting your browser and logging back on? That worked for me.


I cleared cache but I have so many cookies for sites that I use that I 'd rather login each time rather than lose them all. I thought about asking Sasha to "terminate" me completely, then let me re-register using my current username/password.

Brightnorm


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## Icebreak (Jun 3, 2007)

I remember when there was a pretty big buzz about Pila's. I thought they were interesting because of the power source. Some of the guys explained that these torches were not typical of ChinaLights. 

I now have a GL4 but only because some very kind CPFer sent me one. I was surprised by the machine quality. Very nice action on the threads. The anodize appears to be a good quality Type III. The amber LEDs in the switch can be useful. It's a very heavy light. The beam is wide and fairly bright. It sits on the bookshelf in my office in case of emergency.



greenLED said:


> The new Pila lamp assemblies have a narrower beam; they're also much brighter and whiter than the original ones.



Good to know. I also didn't know they could take pressure at scuba depths.



mdocod said:


> One of the things that confuses me entirely, is the GL2 and GL4 lineup, which seems to ship entirely with 6V and 12V lamps, but they they suggest that it can be run on 1x or 2x 600P cells, underdriving either to a semi-dismal yellow, and they consider that a "good" configuration. The GL3 is the only one in the lineup that ships with an appropriate lamp for running li-ion cells.



I did not know that. This explains why the GL4 doesn't WOW me. Maybe I'll try a new LA.


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## GeorgePaul (Jun 3, 2007)

brightnorm said:


> I cleared cache but I have so many cookies for sites that I use that I 'd rather login each time rather than lose them all.


Some browsers, such as Mozilla Firefox, will allow you to delete selected cookies.


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## leukos (Jun 3, 2007)

Like others have said, I never tried a Pila light because I didn't like the look of them. To be fair, I have never handled one. But since most of my purchases are made online, what I see influences if I purchase it. I've handled enough lights that I'm pretty sure I know what I need/like for my uses. I don't like lights that are too heavy because the walls are machined too thick. I do like a durable light though. The accessories and options for the Pila line are very clever. However, I will probably always choose something like the SF G3 over the Pila GL3, or the M3 over the GL3. There is a finesse to the G3 or M3 that makes them durable but not overly heavy. It seems like an elf vs. orc type thing. 

Side note: My one experience with Pila has soured my taste for them. They didn't know their product very well when they had the BC2 charger. I have two dead 150s batteries and four others with diminished capacity due to the extremely high charging current of the BC2. That was about $160 invested in their products that I regret.


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## dudemar (Jan 10, 2008)

Old thread, but I want to add my thoughts.

The Pila GL3 is hands down the best $130 I have spent on a flashlight, including the batteries and charger. It's been dropped many times and it still retains waterproof capability, I'm running the incan bulb close to 30 hours, I've dropped it in a toilet full of urine along with a pair of exposed 300P's, overheated the rechargeables with a LF EO-9, banged it against metal surfaces numerous times, and this thing still shines.

Heck I'm about to buy my fourth one pretty soon!

Dudemar


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## MikeLip (Jan 10, 2008)

Just looked at Pila USA website - their LEDs are Luxeons? Could that be part of the problem? I have no problems with their looks - I like them. But I'm not going to buy a new Luxeon light. I'd buy one used (just did - SF L2), but not new.

Companies like Fenix seem to update their product on an hourly basis, always chasing the latest tech. Surefire is known for rock solid reliability, and they market the heck out of their lights. Heck, they're even (grudgingly it seems, but still) moving towards Cree. Maybe you can drop a Cree into a Pila, but unless I can buy it that way out of the box, sorry. Can't be bothered when there are so many others WITH Crees.

So, update that emitter (or tell me that they can be purchased that way) and I'll give one a shot!


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## divine (Jan 10, 2008)

You should post beamshots in your reviews.

I came in here, read that you were disappointed in the response to your review, I clicked on the link to your review, it had a couple pictures of lights... I scrolled to see how it performed and it wasn't there. At that point, I knew what the light you were reviewing looked like and I was done reading. :shrug:

Now, had it been a light I own, or I knew I was interested in buying before seeing your review, I probably would have read it all.


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## dudemar (Jan 10, 2008)

MikeLip said:


> Just looked at Pila USA website - their LEDs are Luxeons?



Click on "Pila Shop" and the Cree is available. Actually, the OP reviewed a GL2 w/Cree!:thinking:



MikeLip said:


> Could that be part of the problem? I have no problems with their looks - I like them. But I'm not going to buy a new Luxeon light...
> 
> ...So, update that emitter (or tell me that they can be purchased that way) and I'll give one a shot!



You won't regret it!:thumbsup: www.bugoutgearusa.com has really good deals, buy a GL2 or GL3 Cree w/recharge kit and you'll get free shipping!

Dudemar


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## Icebreak (Jan 10, 2008)

Since my last post in this thread we did have a power outage at the office and the GL4 served well. Some of the other guys used it to find their flashlights. Since then I've installed the LumensFactory EO-9L 450 lumen LA. It's now much, much brighter and tighter. This lamp selection may not be best for all emergency situations but for the initial stages of a power outage it's great. The GL4 is ready to go and I did use the tailcap LEDs during the outage. It's heavy so this is going to stay in the office. I prefer Surefires or Customs to take with me. If I need high power incandescants I bring a HotWire or two.

The SFs and Customs have superior purchase over the GL4. In a pinch the GL4 could be used as a striking tool to beat your way through a sheet rock wall.


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## adamlau (Jan 10, 2008)

The Imperatore looks interestings, commendable specs...


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## woodrow (Jan 10, 2008)

AardvarkSagus said:


> I have an interesting question to pose. I don't want to start any flame wars here, that is not my intention. I am just wondering about one certain little aspect of our current flashlight prejudice. I see an entire host of people ascribing to the doctrine of Surefire, Hoards of people joining the relatively recent upheaval of the Fenix cult (both companies have respect from me and I have my own personal favorite lights from each) but another company that I feel does a pretty good job gets ignored. What about Pila? Why is it that any Pila thread I see here gets ignored by the masses? I just did a fairly extensive review of the Pila GL2 with the Cree LED module. I personally thought it was a fantastic light. Why is it that I so rarely see anyone here talk about them? I first started liking Pila from the reviews on flashlightreviews.com. I saw the runtimes of the luxeon LED module and couldn't believe how perfect the regulation was. That's the way I like my lights. Why is it that so few people notice them?
> 
> Of course the likely scenario is that this thread will also die since it is about Pila. That is the way things seem to go.


 
I think some of the veterans show favoritism for Surefire, because like myself (though I am by no means a cpf veteran) Surefire's were the lights that allowed us to be flashaholics. Back in the late 80's there were not a lot of high output lights out there.

I think Fenix has a lot of following because it is the first High output light many new flashaholics buy, and they have a great dollar to---output/size ratio.

The only Pila I have had was the GL4, and it was a nice light, but for me, the shape did not work too well. Also, you do not hear a lot from their vendors on cpf.


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## KeeperSD (Jan 11, 2008)

greenLED said:


> They split from WE-style looks and now have their own style. Their new LA's are far superior from the original ones, they offer Cree drop-ins... heck, they even have a programmable controller add-on for their lights (aka CODEX).
> 
> Like I said, :shrug:


 
do you know any more information on the split between the two companies, i assume at one stage they were pretty closely affiliated if not the same company since the older style Pila is exactly the same as the current WE.


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## dudemar (Jan 11, 2008)

KeeperSD said:


> do you know any more information on the split between the two companies, i assume at one stage they were pretty closely affiliated if not the same company since the older style Pila is exactly the
> same as the current WE.



I'm not too sure, but you can email Pila or WE to try and find out! I'd like to know.

Dudemar


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## KeeperSD (Jan 11, 2008)

i was hoping GreenLED might know a little more :thinking: 
If not one of the dealers might chime in with a response


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## dudemar (Jan 11, 2008)

I'll email Pila tomorrow, it's 2 am and I'm dead tired.

Dudemar


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## Saiga (Jan 11, 2008)

After all this, i just had to take a look. Has anyone noticed, they look like rifle scopes ?


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## HoopleHead (Jan 11, 2008)

hate the looks.


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## IcantC (Jan 11, 2008)

Never head of or seen Pila until this thread. For the price, I rather buy a SF and drop in a Cree(6P with Q5). Most of the guys use SF, so we can easily swap parts. Not to mention can find replacement parts on the fly or over the phone from SF right away. Not making this a SF vs anything thread. Just stating for that price, I doubt I would get it. If it was slightly cheaper, I would definately try it out.


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## spoonrobot (Jan 11, 2008)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Why is it that so few people notice them?



I think you got a fairly stand response to your review thread. Unless the light is a "hot" item at the time or has some unexpected problems/features most review threads about other lights generally don't make it to page two.

There are a few different popular thread cliques on this forum and yours just wasn't in one of them. Nothing wrong with that at all, just not as popular as some other lights.


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## dudemar (Jan 11, 2008)

IcantC said:


> Never head of or seen Pila until this thread. For the price, I rather buy a SF and drop in a Cree(6P with Q5). Most of the guys use SF, so we can easily swap parts. Not to mention can find replacement parts on the fly or over the phone from SF right away. Not making this a SF vs anything thread. Just stating for that price, I doubt I would get it. If it was slightly cheaper, I would definately try it out.



That's because you never handled one. Trust me, once you get your hands on a Pila you'll like it.

Dudemar


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## dudemar (Jan 20, 2008)

KeeperSD said:


> do you know any more information on the split between the two companies, i assume at one stage they were pretty closely affiliated if not the same company since the older style Pila is exactly the same as the current WE.



I emailed Pila, turns out WE and Pila co-designed their respective lights: in other words it's not one company or the other's design! In 2003 Pila split from them completely and decided to go their own path. In 2006 Pila made design revisions, giving its lights their unique looks.

Hope this helps.

Dudemar


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## z282z06 (Jan 20, 2008)

Am I correct in assuming the GL2 costs as much as a Surefire M6?


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## Lobo (Jan 20, 2008)

z282z06 said:


> Am I correct in assuming the GL2 costs as much as a Surefire M6?



The most expencive GL2 configuration at bugoutgear goes for 140USD, the M6 399USD from Surefire's site. So, no.


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## Wattnot (Jan 20, 2008)

dudemar said:


> I've dropped it in a toilet full of urine along with a pair of exposed 300P's, overheated the rechargeables with a LF EO-9, banged it against metal surfaces numerous times, and this thing still shines.


 

Okay, this had BETTER NOT show up in the "for sale" section!!! 

:nana:


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## EntropyQ3 (Jan 20, 2008)

greenLED said:


> Interesting thought... that makes me think that the bulk of CPF is now shifting onto a "mass" mentality (which is not necessarily a bad thing, of course). But, as you and Archangel point out, there are more specialized niches where a Fenix simply wouldn't be a reliable light.
> 
> Incidentally, and since we're talking about niches... Pila clickies are "stiff" because they're designed to not activate with undewater pressure. That is, if you're a diver in the middle of a covert mission, you don't want your light turning on when you're submerged and approaching your target... that'd be bad ju-ju.
> 
> A Fenix light might not even be able to withstand the pressure of a deep-water dive, much less provide this built-in feature designed to increase the safety of underwater "operators". That's not to say Fenix are subpar, I'm trying to clarify the differences in their target users. For those of us who don't dive at night to plant mines, a Fenix may fill our needs.


And I dare say that 99.99% of the flashlight nerds hanging out here are not covert-op divers. For us, that stiff clicky is simply awkwardly stiff and serves no useful purpose whatsoever, not that "useful" even enters into the picture for many collectors. But it serves as an example that designing a flashlight for a niche may well make it less optimal for other, more common, situations.




> That said, I like to use "overengineered" items for regular use & abuse, because they provide me with a safety net because of their added durability and reliability. ...and I also carry AA-based Fenixes now and then.


Overengineered is fine. But _where_ should the flashlight be overengineered? That is the question.
For me, light output - runtime - light weight - small size - electrical reliability - mechanical integrity, all of these matter.

Klingon style design, or catering to the Rambo wanna-be - no thanks. Instant turn-offs. 
Outlandish output claims designed to wow the gullible are also something that detracts from a brand, no matter how appealing the light otherwise, because it signals a lack of integrity and giving priority to chasing fools in order to separate them from their money.
Collectors lights? No. I don't regard myself as a collector even though I buy more than I need. A light has to appeal on merits rather than uniqueness, and an important merit is value.
Oh, and since I don't check cattle-fences at night, throwers and Lux values are curiosities that while I see their value for the few, I regard as being of interest in a historical perspective rather than a practical one for myself. This is, after all, the age of single AAA lights outputting 50-150+ lumen, from a package weighing 25g including battery... 

Being a new poster, are my priorities a problem for the oldtimers here?

CPF is open to the public, and such arenas change and evolve. For better or worse - of course, in the eyes of the oldtimers, the continous influx of clueless newbies is a problem, since the same issues get regurgitated over and over. OTOH for someone who enters the arena at the Cree Q5, LowSelfDischarge NiMH level, seeing opinions put forward that made sense as little as two years ago feels strangely disconnected from todays reality.

From a newbie perspective, if anything is strange here, it is rather the collectors (always weird in the eyes of the public ), and the testosterone haze that seems to emanate from those who oddly connect flashlights with violence, guns and knives.


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## dudemar (Jan 20, 2008)

Wattnot said:


> Okay, this had BETTER NOT show up in the "for sale" section!!!
> 
> :nana:



...actually it's on sale just for you!


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## Any Cal. (Jan 20, 2008)

I have no experience w/ Pila lights. I did buy one WolfEyes. My only beef with them is that they are so much larger/heavier than they need to be. If I could get either w/ a head that was not much larger than the main portion of the body, I would buy tons of them. I really like the light, but my 2 cell WE Explorer was almost as difficult to carry as a 2c [email protected]. Why go to the trouble? 
As far as 18650 compatibility, that is an extreme specialist's niche. Most drivers for LEDs want less than 3.5 volts or more than 4.2. That leaves you w/ Incan only, with no easy replacement w/ primaries. It seems like this is only really important for 3 cell and larger lights, which make up a smaller segment of the market.


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## xevious (Jan 20, 2008)

Pila lights are super rugged and definitely feel like it. Their click switches are excellent and the click action is better than the one found on the Surefire U2 (discounting the U2 reliability problem).

The shape is a little odd... but kind of cool. Like a SAAB.  Not as grippy as a Surefire. I put o-rings in the 4 barrel grooves of the GL-3 to solve that problem. It's also a bit on the heavy side, though it makes for a more formidable club.

I've got the GL-3 with Xenon 9V incandescent module and it puts out a very good floody beam. I do wish Pila made the GL series with a 2 stage clicky... It wouldn't be hard to do and would be appealing for those not interested in the lofty priced Codex module. Otherwise, I think they're under appreciated on CPF.


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## greenLED (Jan 21, 2008)

dudemar said:


> ...actually it's on sale just for you!


I'll keep that in mind...


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## dudemar (Jan 21, 2008)

greenLED said:


> I'll keep that in mind...



Mine's definitely a keeper... pee and all!

Ok I'm being silly. Jokes aside, I still love and use the light.

Dudemar


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## KeeperSD (Jan 22, 2008)

dudemar said:


> I emailed Pila, turns out WE and Pila co-designed their respective lights: in other words it's not one company or the other's design! In 2003 Pila split from them completely and decided to go their own path. In 2006 Pila made design revisions, giving its lights their unique looks.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Dudemar


Thanks for the info, interesting to know.


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## Art Vandelay (Jan 22, 2008)

EntropyQ3 said:


> This is, after all, the age of single AAA lights outputting 50-150+ lumen, from a package weighing 25g including battery...


What light is that?


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## IMSabbel (Jan 22, 2008)

L0D-q5 with 10440.

On high, it is easily as bright as a P3D-Q5 on high (not turbo). 
Less throw, of course, but having them right next to each other right now, its about the same total flux.


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## EntropyQ3 (Jan 22, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> What light is that?


My LOD-Q4 with a Li-Ion cell puts out more light on high than the Fenix L2D-Q5. I don't use it like that, have no particular need for the output, and don't want to perform such acts of cruelty to the cell. With NiMH, the LOD, the LumaPower Avenger, the LiteFlux LF2, MRJ Extreme, even the cheap and cheerful Kaidomain buckle light give outputs in the 40 - 80 lumen range, and some do 100+ with LiIon and regulation the LOD lacks.

The point being - I look at lights like Pila and a host of others and wonder why on earth I would lug around all that weight. The GL2 is 170 g without batteries. Half a pound with. And that's the lightest. Why, when the Fenix P3D is less than 50 g without batteries, and can withstand ridiculous punishment as shown in some threads here on CPF. It's just dead weight.

It used to be that lights needed to be big to house the batteries necessary to power incandescent bulbs at decent outputs and runtimes. Today I can light up a large hall with a single AAA LED light. 

It used to be that the lights needed throw because the output simply wasn't sufficient to do the job at all unless the light was strongly focussed. Today, the output is there, and having a throwy light with a high hotspot to spill contrast is in many (most?) situations a downright liability because the eyes adjust to the extreme brightness of the hotspot.

The game changes.


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## dudemar (Jan 22, 2008)

KeeperSD said:


> Thanks for the info, interesting to know.



No problem.:thumbsup:



EntropyQ3 said:


> The point being - I look at lights like Pila and a host of others and wonder why on earth I would lug around all that weight. The GL2 is 170 g without batteries. Half a pound with. And that's the lightest. Why, when the Fenix P3D is less than 50 g without batteries, and can withstand ridiculous punishment as shown in some threads here on CPF. It's just dead weight... The game changes.



I find myself hard pressed to use a Fenix as an optional club. There's a very good reason why there's all that dead weight!

Again it's all subjective. _You_ might prefer a less massive light, while I would use a heavier light. Fenix only offers LED's, while others might prefer an LED and incan option. While the LOD-Q4 is compact you're not going to get as much throw with its bezel diameter, either.

Dudemar


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## Icebreak (Jan 23, 2008)

EntropyQ3 said:


> The game changes.



Yes, it does and it can be exciting. One thing that seems to stay the same is that different individuals prefer different lights. For many members, a wide range of illumination tools for different activities is preferred.


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## AardvarkSagus (Aug 6, 2008)

Wow, coming back to this thread from a long hiatus really reminds me how much I like my Pila still. Not an EDC light to be sure, but definitely has it's place. Time to go find some good 18650's and a charger.


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## cernobila (Aug 6, 2008)

Pila....It was one of my original choices when I wanted something more suitable for my needs than Surefire had available. I needed a light that is strong, has good lamps available for it, is reliable, not very expensive and has very good run times on rechargeables.....oh yeah, and is responsive to customer needs and wants.....and is easier to find and purchase......It was down to either the Pila or WE, I had a look and at the time found at least a number of the requirements to heavily favor the WE. The rest is history.....Today, the situation is very similar and still favors the WE imho. Pila is a good quality light, but for me, not quite the overall package I was and am looking for.


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## Metatron (Aug 6, 2008)

AardvarkSagus said:


> I have an interesting question to pose. I don't want to start any flame wars here, that is not my intention. I am just wondering about one certain little aspect of our current flashlight prejudice. I see an entire host of people ascribing to the doctrine of Surefire, Hoards of people joining the relatively recent upheaval of the Fenix cult (both companies have respect from me and I have my own personal favorite lights from each) but another company that I feel does a pretty good job gets ignored. What about Pila? Why is it that any Pila thread I see here gets ignored by the masses? I just did a fairly extensive review of the Pila GL2 with the Cree LED module. I personally thought it was a fantastic light. Why is it that I so rarely see anyone here talk about them? I first started liking Pila from the reviews on flashlightreviews.com. I saw the runtimes of the luxeon LED module and couldn't believe how perfect the regulation was. That's the way I like my lights. Why is it that so few people notice them?
> 
> Of course the likely scenario is that this thread will also die since it is about Pila. That is the way things seem to go.


i guess if u cant attach a light to a water cooled machine gun then it isnt worth much, lol, thats why the yanks salivate over surefires, so they can be seen armed to the teeth.
i spent 12 years in a fighting unit, never once even dreamed about putting a torch on the end of my assault rifle, talk about a death wish


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## american lockpicker (Aug 6, 2008)

If they weren't Made in China I probably would consider getting one.


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## Metatron (Aug 6, 2008)

american lockpicker said:


> If they weren't Made in China I probably would consider getting one.


as opposed to being built by underpaid mexicans?


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## Icebreak (Aug 7, 2008)

Easy there, Metatron. Flashlights, manufacturers and country of origin are viable topics of discussion. Citizens, social groups and individuals can be problematic topics of discussions. Just a friendly nudge.


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## monkeyboy (Aug 7, 2008)

AardvarkSagus said:


> Wow, coming back to this thread from a long hiatus really reminds me how much I like my Pila still. Not an EDC light to be sure, but definitely has it's place. Time to go find some good 18650's and a charger.



I got myself a GL3 with the latest pila cree Q5 dropin. I use the Pila as a high output assembly and the Surefire P60L dropin as a low output assembly. I have to agree that it's a bit over engineered and heavy but at least I know it can take a good beating. It's also 20m water resistant (or so the website says). I'm using AW's 18500 with mine.


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## Kiessling (Aug 7, 2008)

Metatron ... what Icebreak said. Please tone it down, your posts are stimuli for conflict which is unnecessary.

In addition to that ... this thread is not a good candidate for resurrection or zombification. 

It is thus closed.

bernie


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