# Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with MJ led (or 35k 5mm) leds



## AuroraLite (Sep 19, 2005)

*Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with high output 5mm leds*

Hi, all!

Got home today early for a change, after reading KevinL post about 35k led vs other leds in led section and some struggle deep within (for like, 5 minutes)--I had decided to mod the SF A2 Aviator into a hybird with 35k mcd leds. 

The result is definitely satisfying and the process is fun(but part of it is a pain in the behind). :laughing: :devil: 

Swapping the leds in a SF A2 probably has been done and mentioned in the past, and the following is just some pictures and description of how a dummy do it  

*Update 23/9/05*--I have finally decided to switch in the MJ uncut leds into the SF A2 led swap mod. The main reason behind this is the level of overdrive a led could take--if my calculation is correct, then the 35k or original leds are driven pretty hard at 78ma. 

It might work well with the original leds, but there is an uncertainty about how much the 35k could take or how long will it last at that level.

For me, since this light will become part of my EDC inventory, though the 35k is truly amazing in terms of its very tight concentrated beam, I cannot bear this uncertainty/risk that these leds' output might diminish over time(or in a short frame of time). 

Thus, I have decided to swap in the *MJ uncut leds for the SF A2*, which is more floodish but just about as bright. More pictures at the end. 






First, unscrew the led ring from the bezel. Slowly wiggle the led ring out.






The led ring without the anode ring. This is the only painful part of the whole process, to undo the anode contact ring from the led ring. I have so much respect for the SF quality of work, even for a small piece, it is well designed and so securely attached together.






This is the anode ring that has been taken off the led ring. You probably have to take it out to mod the leds properly. The trick is to use a solder wick to absorb all the solder off where it is connecting the anode ring and led ring. Then put the solder iron on top of the little tab and wiggle it loose from where it is...finally use a real sharp knife to slowly pill the anode ring off the led ring while heating it up with a solder iron. Be very careful since both the layout of led ring and the anode ring are both quite delicate. If you destroyed either one or damaged it too badly, there is no turning back!! :devil:

Another easier route could be done if you just snap the legs of the original leds and solder the new one on top...but you'd better be lightning quick, since there is hardly any solder connecting the leds to the led ring.






Swapping the leds in process. I have measured the three little SMD resistors mounted before the leds, and each is 33.3 ohm. And when I engage the first stage of the switch, the voltage supply is around 6v. So if the Vf of this 35k is around 3.4v(Got these leds from a fellow flashaholic friend, Aw), then the V drop by resistor will be around 2.6v; and the I for each led will be around 2.6v/33.3ohm=78ma each. Definitely overdriven if the spec is at 20ma nominal for most leds, but further research will need to be done for a long term effects. So far so good.  

Also, depending the leds that you plan to put in, you might have to dremel the protroding latch at the botton of the led flat, so it could fit into the led holes on the A2 bezel.






Viola, it works! Do check the new leds that you plan to swap in before you solder them on, and double check again with supply 3 x 1.5v to the led ring.






Another view from the back of the led ring


Comparisons, all pictures used the same exposure and shutter speed settings:




Original SF A2 vs Attitude





Original SF A2 vs 26k modded Attitude





SF 35k leds A2 mod vs Attitude, it just completely blows it out of water...and the 35k seems to be quite narrow in terms of its beam characteristics.





SF 35k leds A2 mod vs ARC AAA rev4(with Nichia CS, Issac, thanks for the correction  )

*Yet another swap*
As stated in the update at the beginning of this post, finally, I have decided to put in the MJ uncut leds. They are more capable of handling long term overdrive so as long it is under 100ma. Assuming its nominal Vf is around 3v(which IIRC, it does not have as high Vf as normal 5mms), then the drive level is about ~90ma. Here are some comparison pictures of the SF A2 with MJ leds:




Original PT attitude, a comparable output to the original A2




SF A2 with MJ led, this picture does not do a complete justice of the level of light it gives...but comparing it to 35k, it is quite flood-ish and the light generated is about the same(or just a little less, from my naked eyes). Still, a really good improvement over common 5mm leds(which PT attitude is comparable to the original SF A2)




SF A2 35k leds mod, notice the beam is tight and the darker area unlit by this tight beam.




SF A2 MJ uncut leds mod, note the flood beam also covers the unlit area not lit by the 35k. And I am a lot of comfortable with this mod, knowing this tool will perform well and I can count on it when needed to.  


Thank you for reading, hope yod have enjoyed the pix!


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## leukos (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

AuroraLite,
Great post! I have zero soldering skills, so let me know if you would ever do this mod for other CPFers and what you would charge. I would love to have some newer LEDs put in a couple of my A2s!


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## wquiles (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Great mod - thanks for the pictorial walk-through 

Will


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## greenLED (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

I luv your Dummy guides! Thanks for doing this for those of use with limited modding skills.


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## Krit (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

I see 100 mA LED in Dat2Zip and thinking to replace to A2'led. A2 can use with 2*r123a and still over drive stock led, so I will replace with 100 mA led to obtain more current. Now I get 100 mA led in my hand but I have no time to change it.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Leukos,
Thanks for the kind inquiry, flashaholism is mainly a hobby, and I have no idea how much should a mod like this would go for. I have heard it cost a rediculous amount for a new ring of leds(something almost the price for a new A2?), but it doesn't really require excellent solder skill and it will be silly to pay so much for a mod like that. Probably patienence and time are what one needs more for this. Anyway, if time ever permits(which is not very likely for the next few months)...keep in touch. :wave: 


Wquiles,
No, thank _you_ for reading! 


greenLED,
As always, I am truly thankful for your kind support. I don't think there is ever a modder who has no skill, but just modder who hasn't discovered his/her skill. Besides, my easy mods are hardly comparison to those who had set foot and make history on CPF. My kudos to all those contributing mod masters! :rock:


Krit,
I redo my calculation and if my assumptions are correct about the Vf of those 35k(around 3.4v), then they are overdriven at around 78ma each. The uncut 5mm Mj leds are probably great candidates for this mod then, since it will probably still be overdriven but not to the max. Please do show us your result when you are done! :naughty:


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## AW (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Auroralite,

Very nice mod indeed. I guess you'll have to swap them again for the 40K mcd 5mm LED very soon since they are now available from the same manufacturer.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Haha, Aw!

Thanks for spec. At any rate, I will just keep my solder iron hot and ready! :devil: :laughing:


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## IsaacHayes (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Correction to first post: ArcAAA rev4 uses a Nichia CS LED.  Not sure if it's a U-bin they use, but I have some U-bins that I'll be putting into my arcaaa. Now THAT's going to be hard!!

BTW not sure why the andode ring was removed, but then again I don't have an A2.  I've done 5/8 led Xnova led replacements, and once you get used to it, it's just time consuming (desoldering 16 leads, then heating up the holes 16x to slide the led in, then anothe 16 times to add more solder to finish them up!) (I can't find my desoldering braid)


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## AuroraLite (Sep 20, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*



IsaacHayes said:


> Correction to first post: ArcAAA rev4 uses a Nichia CS LED.  Not sure if it's a U-bin they use, but I have some U-bins that I'll be putting into my arcaaa. Now THAT's going to be hard!!
> 
> BTW not sure why the andode ring was removed, but then again I don't have an A2.  I've done 5/8 led Xnova led replacements, and once you get used to it, it's just time consuming (desoldering 16 leads, then heating up the holes 16x to slide the led in, then anothe 16 times to add more solder to finish them up!) (I can't find my desoldering braid)



IssacHayes,

Thank you for the correction, post corrected! 

The reason for removing the anode ring is because there are three tongues that sprung out from the ring as contacts to the body. And those three tongues are covering where the solder points for the three leds at the base of the led ring. 

Certainly, one could use brute force to bend those tongues backwards and try to access the leds...but I worry the fact that it will be bent out of shape permanently and even then, it would be harder to solder those leds straightly lined up and all approximately equal in height when the tongues are in the way. 

What I did after removing this anode ring is, to de-solder the leds, then replace those with three new leds that all has very identical lenght of trimmed legs. 

Afterwards, solder the new leds onto the led rings, and finally, place the led ring flat on a glass, heat up the solder point to get each of them to adjust for striaghtness and the height. As you have said, it is not a really that difficult of work, but do needs patience and time... :sweat: :laughing:


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## IsaacHayes (Sep 21, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Ah I see. A2 seems like a really cool light. I'd like to see a light with luxeon & reflector, and with 5mm led all around the bezel up close by the lens. You could have a rotating collar like the U2 that would select between white led, red, green, UV, etc  Crazy Idea but it'd be like every A2 rolled into one.

I'm almost done with my ArcAAA Nichia CS swap. I had to re-solder the wires of the inductor back to the inductors SMD base(the part that is soldered to the board)!!! Actually I think the wires were originally spot welded/melted. You can see the details of it here.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 21, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Isaac,

Maybe all the flashaholics think alike? I did make some prototype of what you have mentioned(not as crazy as four colors with bezel twisiting operation, which btw, a really cool idea) with 2 leds and a luxeon in the middle. Turns out the bezel is too small for such mod, but now that you have mentioned it...I think I ought to give it another try! :naughty: 

A2 indeed is a really cool light...but somehow, my local flashaholic friend and I are having conspiracy theory that maybe SF will come out with a new light, similar to A2, but with lux in the middle and different colored leds as back up/option in the reflectors...for example, Lux III or V in the middle with IR leds or red leds...SF, are you listening?

Btw, I am thinking yet another swap for the A2 35k...maybe with the Mj led uncut this time--Krit got a really good and valid point, after some reading and researching, it seems the Mj leds are more durable in a long, long run for overdriving. What do you all think?  


I had seen the similar ARC AAA led swap in the past, and I am sure the result should be quite satisfying. Very informative thread, a future project I shall pick up in the future.


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## makar (Sep 21, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Great thread :thumbsup:
How will this modification affect the runtime compared to the standards sf version?


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## js (Sep 21, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Great thread, AuroraLite!

Thanks for posting this.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 21, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Makar and Js,

Thanks for reading! AFAIK, this 35k leds have a nominal Vf of 3.4v and if the original leds do have the same or similar Vf and the spec I forward as 20ma, then the runtime should remain the same or somewhat similar. From FLR site, it has stated that the leds are not regulated, so it will just drop very gradually from beginning to 50% in 15 hours.

Actually, what I'd like to know is whether there is a way to guesstimate as how many hours of leds usage is equal to incan usage for the A2?


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## IsaacHayes (Sep 21, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Auroralite - Perhaps take one of those cheap china lights on ebay/etc that have like 32 or whatever LEDs in them. Get one that has a side clicky switch. Swap the switch for a 2 stage switch like people do for the QIII. (only this one will be on the side barrellel, so you can wire up it to switch between 5mm and luxeon, instead of a resistor). Then hack out the LED board and leave only the outermost ring of LEDs. Then find a reflector (IMS?) 17mm/20mm/27mm etc that fits in the center. Get some aluminum and mount an emitter and grind it to fit in the head. Drill holes for wires, Wire up the 5mm ring, and the luxeon. drop in the reflector, Artic Aluminua/silver Epoxy the aluminum HS into the head, solder the wires to the 2 stage switch. And there you have a dual 5mm/luxeon home made light! I'll leave the color of LEDs (and rotating collar LED selector) up to you to figure out!  Actually 360nm fox UV would be cool in a A2....

As for swapping out the 35k for MJLED, well those are speced at 100ma or so, so I'd think they'd tolerate the higher "overdrive" levels of the A2 better, and perhaps make more light (they have a wider beam angle) too. That or put some Nichia CS U-rank LEDs in. Those would be just as bright/brighter than the 35k and at over drive levels they don't dim down/fade like the 35k does over time.


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## Krit (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

I carry A2 along the beach at night and the led light is not enough for my safety walking. I found sea snake at beside the beach, and difficult to see what it is. I step over the snake and I just know that it is not the string.

I come back and think A2 is the multipurpose light for me and led mode is just suit for camp life or close up work. It's not suit for safe walk in total dark area which we do not clear enough.

I see the uncut 100 mA MJled and think the way to mod to the brighter led mode for A2. This should be the A2 which best for me and I can use other mini led in latent area instead.


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## Krit (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

AuroraLite, I do not change my A2's led yet. I have every thing in my hand now but I'm in my hard luck from termite in my house. :-(


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## AuroraLite (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

Krit,

I managed to put 3 Mj uncut led with 40 ohms each, powered by 4x1.5v batteries to simulate the 3 leds ring in A2. The result is a splash of creamy white light. I think I am at an intersection to decide whether to keep those 35k in the A2, knowing that it is quite overdriven and destined to diminish overtime, or simply to put in the 3 Mj leds. The pros about the 35k over the Mjs is that it does give a very concentrated beam shot(like behind an optics) vs Mj's 'wall of light'...current 5mm leds inherently will be no where near as bright as the current lux, and the focused beam pattern does have its appeal over a flood light for me.

How would you all choose if you are in my shoes?

Btw, take your time, Krit, no worries or anxiety attack!


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## Krit (Sep 23, 2005)

*Re: Dummy reference guide to SF A2 modding with 35k 5mm leds*

AuroraLite, in my opinion, propose of use is major decision supporting. I think the stock led is not throw enough for walking so I will change to uncut MJ for good throw as I rough test.

For your objective, 35K led makes a smooth plenty light in close up use. So, if the led cost is not too high. You can change them after diminish.

Thanks for your auxiliary.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 23, 2005)

Krit,

I finally swtich the 35k leds to MJ uncut leds for the SF A2. It is a decision mostly based on reliability, since this light will become part of my regular EDC inventory and I cannot bear in mind that uncertainty/possibility that its output might diminish over time.

The result is just as impressive, more flood this time and remains a significant improvement over the original SF A2.


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## KevinL (Sep 23, 2005)

Whoa.... I was just going to say "hold your decision" because I might have something next week for you. 

If you think the 35Ks are impressive.. just wait 

But good point, the reason why I am not even modifying my A2 at all is that it is a light I need to depend on. I don't think my own skills are good enough to provide GUARANTEES, compared to the automated assembly lines and extensive testing SF does.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 23, 2005)

KevinL,

Haha...if you have something good up your sleeves, I am all ears(or hands)! 
The reliability is a real issue, and I think any SF buyers will acknowledge that when they make their SF purchase. And that is the reason why I have not only one or two A2s with me...before I am bold enough to mod this one. 

Meanwhile, I will keep my solder iron hot and ready! :naughty: 

Btw, what's the verdict as the best solution for a rechargable A2s? I have read from your cool thread about 'A2 convert', and will the 2x3v li-ion rechargable be the best/safest option? I am still not ready to risk this light with 2xR123 just yet...


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## KevinL (Sep 23, 2005)

You guys will find out the exact nature of the beast next week when I get my first look at it. More than one A2 - you are a flashaholic indeed! The only modded SFs I keep around are my collector's editions. My KL1-SG has a new RY0J LED for example, but my working KL1-HA has its original yellowish LED. Much as I dislike the tint..


Anyway, still driving my A2 on 2xCR123. Regulation helps take away the pain because the light remains brilliantly white till the cells are ready to die. If I think I'll be using the light for extended periods of time, I bring my U2 instead with its 18650 high cap lithium ions.


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## wquiles (Oct 1, 2005)

AuroraLite,

I got my A2 today and as I expected, the "normal" LED's that come with it have that awful "angry blue" tint which I hate so much (too used to the Luxeons, I suppose). 

Which of these mods that you have done you feel gives you the closest to true "white" tint? From the pictures I would guess the uncut MJ's, but wanted to ask to be certain.

Will
(A2 ready to be LED modded!)


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## AuroraLite (Oct 5, 2005)

Hi, Will. :wave:

Haha...another A2 modder! 

Actually, believe it or not, the 'whitest' I have ever seen is actually 3 26ks Chinese leds put together in a PT attitude mod that I have done. It is like the X0 tint driven at 750. Not warm, not cold, just perfect. 

But the only worries I have about is its dimishing output when overdriven as featured in the 'Head to head' thread. And that is why I have went for the MJs, it is a little creamy and a very slight hint of green, but heck, it is such a huge improvement over the original angry blue/purple that it is well worth the effort.

The most 'throw' actually comes from the 35k, but as I have mentioned in the thread, I'd worried about it's long term unknown performance when overdriven at ~80ma, and it is angry blue like the originals. But the beam it so tight that it actually can throw a little.

Btw, I took out the A2 with MJ leds for a night hike in pitch dark, it is really a cool 'tool' since I can identify/see pretty well within 20+ feet with the leds, and the incan could lit up the path if the throw is needed. And for close up work, the leds are really bright and quite comfortable to read with.

Anyway, good luck to your mod, and show us your mod when it is done!


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## farscape105 (Oct 11, 2005)

Sorry about being off topic. Have some newbie questions about poor mans A2, the TT 2L. I just have a little experience with mods. Modded a SL keymate with MJLED which is sweet. I put Dorcy Spyder bulb in my TT 2L and would like to replace the 3 led's in TT2l also. Any advice on TT 2L mod? Which would be better Nichia CS or MJLED's? Would I have to put in any resisters or just solder in new led's?


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## AuroraLite (Oct 11, 2005)

Farscape105,

This TT2L project seems to be a fun one, and unfortunately I don't have one to give you straight answers, but...

1) Are the original leds setup parallelly or in series?

2) Are there any resistor(s) soldered with each/group of the leds? What are their/its value? And how are their setup(one resistor for each led, or one resistor to a group of paralleled leds, etc)?

3) MJ is a bright flood of light(mine has a very small hint of green/yellow, but overall it is a huge improvement on the angry blue tint. But if you like more 'throw' or concentrated beam, seems like the Nichia is a better choice. And depending which one you like better, we might have to solder in a resistor(SMD or regular, depending the room we have) in the mod if it is directly driven by the 2 Li batteries.


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## wquiles (Oct 11, 2005)

AuroraLite,

I am almost ready to modify my A2 - I am too tired of the angry blue tint!. 

Some additional questions:
- Regarding the LED's, how are they wired? Series or parallel?
- Assuming parallel, are the batteries (2x3V) driving each LED individually with a current limiting resistor? 
- You mentioned 40ohms above for the MJLED - what was the stock value?

Thanks in advance,

Will


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## AuroraLite (Oct 11, 2005)

wquiles said:


> AuroraLite,
> 
> I am almost ready to modify my A2 - I am too tired of the angry blue tint!.
> 
> ...



Hi, Will.

The original leds each has a 33.3 ohm resistor soldered in front, and each set of resistors and leds are wired parallel with each other.

The spec of the 'uncut' MJs are found as the 5mm 100ma as in the following ISP:

http://www.powerleds.com/

Thanks to Wayne(btw, can you tell I am a total dummy in EE), he had told me the sweet info about these leds, and that it might have degradation as shown in 'head to head' thread if we go above or close to 100ma.

Earlier in the thread, I had the calculation as ~90ma to each of the MJs(assuming its Vf is around 3v)in theory. 

Yet, I had recently ran a very identical setup of 3 sets of MJs and each as a 32ohm(22+10) in front of it, on a bread board.

Driven by 4x1.5v(6.2v measured) alkaline, IIRC, the numbers of ma was much smaller, something around 50ma to each MJ. Certainly, a 2x123 probably might yield a higher current, but it is more likely that the current should still be within the safety limit of 100ma.

And that was what I did to my swap, just the MJ leds with no change on the resistor values. So far, after a few sets of batteries, it continus to work like a charm.

Good luck to your mod!


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## FredM (Oct 13, 2005)

So the anode ring is no longer used? How is it originally attached to the LED ring? Solder points?

Once the anode ring is off further swapping of LEDs in and out will be easy correct?


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## wquiles (Oct 13, 2005)

OK, so I just finished my own A2 LED upgrade thanks to AuroraLite :bow:

I went from a nasty case of really angry blue LED's to a creamy, white, close to X1 tint (a hint of green), and on top of everything, they are no longer seriously over-driven.

Here are some pictures of me playing with the stock LED module against a white background. It is hard to tell from this picture, but the angry blues are really nasty!







I first try with some Nichia LED's from the 2nd group buy, but these still have too much blue on them:






I then try the recent 35K LED's that I got from here in the forum (thanks KevinL), and these were much more white, almost perfect. Although the picture shows then different brightness, the truth is that the beam/angle is different on both and that is why the 35K's look dimmer than the Nichias, but they simply have more trow:






and for those who have not open the A2's head, it is pretty impresive on the inside:






I made a lot of current & voltage measurements and found that the A2 is seriously over-driven (in my humble opinion). In order not to hijack AuroraLite's thread, I am starting a new thread on the LED area just to talk about the drive levels in these LED's and my findings.

Thanks AuroraLite for inspiring me to modify and improve my A2 :bow:

Will


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## js (Nov 21, 2005)

wquiles or AurorLite,

What is the best, safest, and gentlest way to remove the LED ring from the head once you remove the three screws? I started to try to get the ring out of my HA BLK A2 last night, and it wouldn't come out easily, so I decided I had better wait for some advice. I'm not in any hurry here, and I have the utmost respect for my two A2's.

So I await your advice! TIA!


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## wquiles (Nov 21, 2005)

Jim,

Yes, it is a tight fit due to the LED's. It has been a little while, but I think I just used some strong thin pliers and pulled straig up. It is very hard to break anything 

When you are done putting new LED's/resistors, they LED ring will also go back with some force. Tight tolerances I guess 

Will


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## js (Nov 21, 2005)

Where on the ring should the top and bottom jaws be aligned? Anywhere on inside and anywhere on outside? Or from a screw hole to the inside? Or what?


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## wquiles (Nov 21, 2005)

I am pretty sure I used one of the screw holes along with the inner (main lamp) hole to grab the module.

You will be fine. Just go slow 

Will


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## js (Nov 22, 2005)

Thanks, Will! I'll give it a try.


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## AuroraLite (Nov 22, 2005)

Hi, Js and Will. :wave:

A little late to the party, but I could confirm I too do use the same method to pull the ring out(thin pillers grabbing by the screw hole and main bulb hole)

I think part of the reason is because of the leds catching itself onto the led holes. Wiggle the ring a little while pulling it out should do it.


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## Arkayne (Dec 8, 2005)

Time to bump the thread!

Do they have those high mcd LEDs in *RED*? I'd love to do this mod!


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## AuroraLite (Dec 9, 2005)

Arkayne,

Thank you for the bump. 

Hardly use the red leds, but I shall look around and if I find anything, I shall let you know. 


#########################

Meanwhile, I have been struggling for the longest time--should I or should I not to mod this A2 into a Lux light(while keeping the 3 seperate 5mm in a different color)?

Right now, after much thinking and talking to others, the light seems to be rather perfect by itself, and there is no real urgert to mod it. But the debate continues when it comes to the reliability issue of a bulb(and replacement cost) vs a lux....

What do you guys think?


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## Arkayne (Dec 9, 2005)

I was wondering, do you think the SF RED LEd ring has different resistor values than the white?


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## AuroraLite (Dec 10, 2005)

Arkayne,

I do have one A2 in Red as well(stock red led), but it is not with me. I should be able to check it in a day or two, and I will post my findings here soon.

Meanwhile, if anyone owns a Red A2, please jump in to contribute.


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## leukos (Dec 10, 2005)

If memory serves me, my red LED ring has the same resistor values as the others, 33ohm.


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## Arkayne (Dec 11, 2005)

hmmmmmm I'm reading 100.4 ohms on my red ring. Can someone clarify this?


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## AuroraLite (Dec 12, 2005)

Arkayne,

Finally get to my A2 porcupine with Red leds, and I can now confirm that SF indeed do use 100 ohm resistors for the red led rings (I had taken a picture with a magnifying glass as well as measuring it).

With two pretty full 123 batteries(5.95+ v), the voltage dropped across one single resistor is 3.85v. That in turns give us 38.5 ma. So I believe each red led is driven at ~38.5ma.

Another observation is that, unlike my black A2, which all the screws(negatives) are interconnected with an outter ring of copper; each of the red led is connected to the negative via each screw individually and seperately. 

That really doesn't matter much to the operation of the red leds, except when you do try to measure the voltages, then you have to make sure you connect all the negatives via each different screw holes seperately to get a correct reading.

In short, if you do intend to swap the leds into another color(for ex, MJ leds), then you might have to switch the resistor to a different values to get the full benefit/brightness of the new leds.


####################

Another confirmation with my uncut MJ leds mod (on the black A2 which has 33.3 ohm resistors), the voltage dropped across the resistors are 2.613v. And the current driven to each of the MJ leds should then be ~78.5ma(which is overdriven, but should be quite safely overdriven with no ill effects).

Hope this helps!


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## Arkayne (Dec 12, 2005)

Ahh man, replacing those dinky resistors may turn out to be more work than I bargained for. I'll just keep an eye out for a spare LED ring so I can make an MJ White ring.

thanks for the help!


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## IsaacHayes (Dec 12, 2005)

Arkayne: Try www.lsdiodes.com for the THC3 Red Leds. They are 100ma Reds supposed to be really bright.


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## AuroraLite (Dec 12, 2005)

Arkayne,

Issac's suggestion look quite promising, so it is definitely worth looking into. Also, IIRC, wquiles had also done the same mod here, and he might have switched his resistor value(for using with rechargables?)--might want to pm him for his opinion. 


Issac,

I remembered seeing those THC3 leds somewhere, and they look awfully similar to the ISP 5mm 100ma (MJ uncut). Did ever you try to compare them side by side? And what are their differences?


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## IsaacHayes (Mar 30, 2006)

heh, just getting back to this thread. I believe they are the same. I have not compared them I don't have them both. But I would imagine they are the same... MJLED I belive was selected bins with low Vf so DD 3volts they would be brightest.


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## wquiles (Mar 31, 2006)

AuroraLite said:


> Arkayne,
> 
> Issac's suggestion look quite promising, so it is definitely worth looking into. Also, IIRC, wquiles had also done the same mod here, and he might have switched his resistor value(for using with rechargables?)--might want to pm him for his opinion.


Indeed, I did replace the resistors with higher values when I swaped the OEM white LED's for 35K's from KevinL - details are shown in this post. I went from the 33ohms to 110ohms, which give me excellent results with the rechargable cells that I always use (MP700's from AW).

After months of use and at least 40 cycles through the MP700's, I still recommend using larger resistors if using rechargables in the A2 

Will


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## AuroraLite (Apr 1, 2006)

Thank you guys for the replies, I can't talk for long now(in a rush to go), but I do have some SMJ enrouted to me as of now...and I look forward to putting them in my A2...

The fun just never ends, and I will report back with the new results. :devil:


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## flashlight (Apr 6, 2006)

Would the SMJ LEDS be better than the 40K ones?


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## wquiles (Apr 6, 2006)

flashlight said:


> Would the SMJ LEDS be better than the 40K ones?


Better in what way?

Will


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## AuroraLite (Apr 6, 2006)

Flashlight,

:wave:

Hmmm, good question, and I honestly can't say I know. 

From what I read, the SMJ uncut is simply a 4 die 5mm led that has a 35 degree viewing angle and rated at 15 lumens(!) at 80ma. 

I figured that even if it might not be driven at full 80ma(more or less), and the lumens rating might suffer--but with three of them put side by side with a reflective surface, it will still be a truck load of lumens coming out from the business end for 5mms. :rock:


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## wquiles (Apr 6, 2006)

In terms of brightness, I recently swaped 35K's for the older SMJLED and the brightness went up significantly. In terms of heat (being able to run at higher current for longer times), I expect that the SMJLED will do better than the 35K (or 40K, although I don't yet have any 40K's yet).

Will


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## AuroraLite (Apr 6, 2006)

Wquiles,

That was the path that I took as well--swapping out the 35k for the MJ leds, and I was happy with the result ever since. One of the major consideration/reservation I had with the 35k, IIRC, is the output after overdriving at an exteneded period of time. 

The MJ I was told to be ok to be overdriven at 100ma, and my meter told me it is at around 78ma each in the A2. So the MJs are probably a more long-term viable option than the 35k.

Now only if I could put in the SMJs... :devil: And I will report back for the result.


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## wquiles (Apr 6, 2006)

AuroraLite said:


> That was the path that I took as well--swapping out the 35k for the MJ leds


My apologies. I did swap 35K's for MJLED's, but not in my A2, but in my POP-driven G2 LED Module . My A2 still has the 35K's and the larger (110ohm) resistors so even with the rechargable batteries I am doing fairly good (40mA max) so far - later on if one of them ever dies, I will put MJLED's to replace them 

EDIT: On this post I talked about my bench measurement where I found the nedd to increase resistance value when using rechargable CR123 LiIon cells. After using my A2 for a while, even at 40mA to each one of the 35K LED's, I am beguining to think that part of the reason the LED's on the A2 last so long is that the LED's are pressed into the solid metal head/reflector assembly and that this does provide for an excellent path for heat disipation. Anyone else agrees?

Will


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## flashlight (Apr 7, 2006)

Thanks for all the replies guys.  Now all I need to do is to get an A2 & someone to change out the LEDs for me.


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## lasercrazy (Apr 7, 2006)

I just replaced the angry blue leds in my A2 last night with some SMJ leds. It has a very bright and even flood of light now.


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## AuroraLite (Apr 7, 2006)

Will,
I tend to agree--I remembered using the original leds for extended period of time and having it becoming warm in hand...

Flashlight,
Good luck to your future mod, and I assure you won't regret it... :naughty: 

lazercrazy,
Ahhh...man, you beat me to it! Any comparison beamshots?


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## 03lab (Apr 10, 2006)

Will the SMJLED fit the A2 without any further modification the way they come from Lambda? Anything else to watch out for? Thanks!!


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## AuroraLite (Apr 11, 2006)

03lab,

:wave:

I have played with the SMJ from lambda, and there are two things that you might need to watch out for:

1) Make sure you are getting the *uncut* version of the SMJ, orelse, you will be stuck with a really really wide flood of light and three really really faith rings of light...(believe me, I had tried when I first got them) and what I am getting now are the uncut version of SMJ.  

2) if you look at my pictures, I had actually dremelled/sand down the ledge at the base of the leds. For this, you have to be extra careful not to sand too much(just enough for the leds to fit thru the opening of the reflector will be fine) orelse permanent damage will be done to the leds.


Good luck with the mod!


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## IsaacHayes (Apr 11, 2006)

Just got done with doing this. I was able to remove the leds easily from the topside by heating both legs at once and pulling up on the led. They came off in about 2secs of heat. I then soldered on new (place trimed leads over solder holes, heat, push down), added some extra solder from the top, then from the back I was able to put my iron tip (flat skinny tip) between the anode contacts to smooth out the solder.

You need to grind off the bottom ledge or lip that the leds have. The ones I put in place, were wide front, and not tapered like the stock ones, but the only thing you have to do to make fit is remove the lip around the bottom. I noticed the stock leds had been sanded on the sides, but they didn't have lips on the bottom anyway from what I could tell. They sanded up way high. I just ground the lip off the bottom, this way it looks better and is all that is needed. Now from looking at the bezel they look un-touched normal leds.

A2 is pretty neat light. I wish it had a luxeon though as the main beam!


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## AuroraLite (Apr 11, 2006)

Isaac,

Man, you speak my mind! :rock:

For the longest time, I was battling myself to whether I should put in a lux V or lux III in there for its main beam...but luckily, fellow local flashaholics had managed to calm me down and convince me not to do it.

But for what it's worth, I really wish SF will put a lux III or lux V in the middle and to shorten the length of A2(since now without the regulator) to E2E size. Now that'd be a great improvement(call it A2L or A3 or A5....)

Another spin to it will be to give the main beam also high-low and with three bright 5mms in different color...so now we not only have one really, really robust light, but 2 seperate independent light systems with different colors.


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## 03lab (Apr 11, 2006)

AuroraLite said:


> 1) Make sure you are getting the *uncut* version of the SMJ, orelse, you will be stuck with a really really wide flood of light and three really really faith rings of light...(believe me, I had tried when I first got them) and what I am getting now are the uncut version of SMJ.



Thanks, that's exactly what I needed to know. Can't wait to finally mod mine.  I'll let you know how it turned out.


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## IsaacHayes (Apr 11, 2006)

Aurora: the K2 kroma is the closest to that. 2 level luxIII, red/blue seletable leds. I'd rather have red/UV leds though. It doesn't use a reflector for the luxeon, but I've heard it actually has sidespill with the optic...


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## PoliceScannerMan (Apr 11, 2006)

Isaac, 
I sanded those leds to try to "Smooth" out the beam, stock they come perfect and round. I sanded them then buffed them to a shine on the light you modded for me...


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## IsaacHayes (Apr 11, 2006)

Ah, that makes more sense. I was thinking at first before I took them out that they were melted from the heat of the bulb. Then I saw they were sanded. I thought that's odd.. But the tops weren't sanded so I figured it wasn't to smooth out the beam!


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## AuroraLite (Apr 12, 2006)

03lab,
Good luck! :thumbsup:

PoliceScannerMan and IssacHayes,
Hmm....that's keen observation. I'd never noticed that in the past about the 'sanded' parts, will it be possible the sanded parts at the side is to avoid the ugly beam artifacts?

I read about the kroma and played with a prototype a little while ago, to some degree it does answer my prayers, yet how I only wish they could make it a little smaller to be pocketable in my dress pants for work.


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## lasercrazy (Apr 16, 2006)

Sorry no comparison shots. Did you put them in your A2 yet? They don't have the throw of the original leds but they do have the even flood I was looking for.



AuroraLite said:


> Will,
> I tend to agree--I remembered using the original leds for extended period of time and having it becoming warm in hand...
> 
> Flashlight,
> ...


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## AuroraLite (Apr 17, 2006)

Lazercrazy,

Haha...funny that you mentioned this, over the weekend I got a chance to put the new SMJ uncut into my A2. I was quite happy with the mod, though there is a slight scrafice on the 'throw'(which is not much to begin with anyway). The SMJ is wider in viewing angle(35 degrees) when compared to original MJ uncut(25 degrees), but from my eyes, I am more than sure that the SMJ does give higher and whiter output than the MJ(also confimred in my MJ uncut and SMJ uncut Minimag mods).

Another minor details I would like to contribute is the *height of the 5mms up into the reflector*, which now my newly put in leds are sitting rather high up(where the ledge/base of 5mm is almost at the opening). I am not 100% whether this way or to let the 5mm sit lower will be 'better', but I am sure it does affect the beam characteristic. 

My educated guess is that if you are using 5mms that has wider angle of viewing, then it will more likely to be more affected by the height of where it sits in the reflector...I might re-mod the light once again just to experiment with the height. 

Anyhow, I did manage to take a few pix for the SMJ and MJ A2 comparison, and I will put em up sometime after at the front page.


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## AuroraLite (May 5, 2006)

Ok, I finally finished modding the SMJ leds in A2, and the result is floody beam with an improvement on the overall output vs MJ(of course, a lot white/brighter than the original leds in SF A2), and I love the tint of the new SMJ as well since it is whiter and cooler than the creamy yellowish tint of MJ leds.

*I measured around 208ma current drawn(1.04v dropped across a 5 ohm resistor) for 3 SMJ leds at the tailcap with two 3.2v Panasonic CR123 batteries (around 70ma to each led).* And as a comparison to Js measurement for a normal SF A2, he got a measurment of 110ma from a tailcap reading for his normal white SF A2.

The height of how high the led sits in the A2 reflector does play a big part, and I found that generally speaking, it seems to achieve the best 'throw'(or best hotspot lux reading) when the emitter pad is almost flush(or just a hair width higher) with the lower opening to the led.

Also, in discussion with Js in his great A2 thread in general discussion (The SF A2), I kept on wondering the question--*how much led usage time will cut into(used up) the remaining incan usage time left?* :thinking:

Today, I did two experiments, one is to find out when the incan fails to regulate, the V of the battery and the other is how many hours of SMJ led usage time will cost my SF A2 fails to lit up the incan. 

For first set of my old batteries(which was originally in my A2 already), I run the A2 with incan until it fails to regulate(or fail to regulate when I turn it off and on), and I measure the V of the battery, and they read around 2.75v each(panasonic CR123).

Then, I put in two brand new panasonic 123 batteries(~3.26v ea) and turn on solely the led on A2, and after each hour usage of led, I would turn on the incan for approximately 5 secs to see whether it will fail the regulation. Then way, I would know how many hours of SMJ led usage will make my SF A2 incan fail to start...

After 9 hours of continuous use of SMJ leds in my A2, the incan failed to start/regulate.(but after 8 hours, the incan lit up perfectly for the 5 sec test). The V of batt reads ~2.645v each. So it probably will be safe to assume the incan will stop working sometime after 8 hours straight usage of SMJ leds.

If we were to assume the incan usage time is perfectly 50 mins, and conservatively, the 8 hours of SMJ leds usage will cost the A2 fail to lit up/regulate its incan...then *my rough educated guess will be for every 1 hour of SMJ leds usage in my SF A2, it will cost approximately 6.25 min of incan runtime.*  

I will do more testing to confirm about this finding, and *if anyone is interested in helping with the incan/led usage time test for your normal or modded A2, do feel free to let me know.*


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## wquiles (May 5, 2006)

I always wondered about this. Really good data - thanks!

Will


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## cue003 (Jun 22, 2006)

Auroralite,

PM sent.


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## IsaacHayes (Jun 22, 2006)

Just did a swap again, and it had yellow-green leds originally. I measured the resistor and came up with a value of around 68ohms or so. So this is inbetween the normal white/blue/green and red values. Tailcap resistor was around 10 ohms. I don't think they are being overdriven super hard, but the leds are probably right around spec I'd say. 40k LEDs were used. I put glow epoxy on the back of them first, and wow does it glow good.

The new 131 lm/watt Cree's should be good, as people say they are really white and as bright as a SMJLED, but with a single die so it will throw far. Just found out about those recently.


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## AuroraLite (Jun 22, 2006)

cue003,

PM replied.


Issac,

Thank you for chiming in! I have done a few led/incan runtime-tradeoff test since then, and discovered that, more realistically, *every one hour of led use(modded with SMJ) will lead to approximately 7 min of decrease in incan runtime.*

Those leds that you have proposed sounded mighty good...and am still quite happy with my SMJ mod with the light, a great amount of light increase and more flood coverage overall...but I would also love to mod another A2 with powerful 5mms that have more 'throw' someday. 

I too used glow powder on my SMJ, and if anyone take a closer look into them, there are area which the GID light will actually pass directly to the front. The glow is so strong that I could even read with it if I am in total darkness! :thumbsup:


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## leukos (Jun 22, 2006)

GITD is great mod for the A2!


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## wquiles (Jun 22, 2006)

That GITD is COOL !!!

Will


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## cue003 (Jun 22, 2006)

how long does the GITD last...especially in green?

Where do I find the SMJ uncut LED's? Do I also need different resisters?

Would like to hear more about the 131 lm/watt Cree's. Where do I get those?

Thanks.

Curtis


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## oregonshooter (Aug 27, 2006)

Hello,

I've been reading this thread on changing the LEDs in an A2 and wondered if you think it would be a straight switch from my factory RED leds to these...http://www.lsdiodes.com/shop/index....&products_id=36

As I understand it, the factory has 100ohm resisters and using non-rechargeables (6v) would still keep me safe with the rated 2v forward peak these are rated for?

Thanks for any suggestions. I'm just looking for more output for walking the dog and camping. The factory bulbs are a just a hair too dim.

-Jim
__________________


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## marxs (Aug 28, 2006)

I believe greenled is getting one a2 with the THC3 white ones on it to test. I havent heard much about it but i would indeed like to see how bright this one goes.


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## AuroraLite (Aug 29, 2006)

Curtis,

Sorry for the much belated reply, just read your post now.  

The green GID did shine really bright at first(you could even read with it for the first 5 min), and eventually dim down. But it could still be remain noticeable after at least a few hours to dark adjusted eyes.

The SMJ leds from either Lambda or Sandwich Shoppe, and you will not need to swap the resistor value(unless you plan to use it with li-ion rechargables)

I too would like to hear more about those powerful 5mms development, and making my A2 even more useful in their 5mm than the past. 




cue003 said:


> how long does the GITD last...especially in green?
> 
> Where do I find the SMJ uncut LED's? Do I also need different resisters?
> 
> ...


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## AuroraLite (Aug 29, 2006)

Hi, Jim.

The link didn't work for me, but I am guessing you are referencing to the 5mm Red THC3 LED? The unfortunate thing is I am not 100% what is the spec for the factory SF red led Vfs, but I am guessing it should be around 3v? And these THC3 red seems to have lower than usual spec of 2.4v(and no spec for the max Vf).

I think one sensible thing to do is simply email the folks at lsdiodes to ask about their red THC3 max Vf and if it is on or above 3v, then it should be a pretty safe and simply swap. 

Btw, your A2 tailcap stands work really well on mine(a friend who had also designed a comparable tailstand which works equally well), I do highly recommend it. 





oregonshooter said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been reading this thread on changing the LEDs in an A2 and wondered if you think it would be a straight switch from my factory RED leds to these...http://www.lsdiodes.com/shop/index....&products_id=36
> 
> ...


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## AuroraLite (Aug 29, 2006)

I remembered once the question was raised about the difference between the THC3 and old SMJ, and IIRC, they are virtually quite similar in many aspect. I too would love to see any actual difference bewteen this and the new SMJ. Please do keep us posted. 




marxs said:


> I believe greenled is getting one a2 with the THC3 white ones on it to test. I havent heard much about it but i would indeed like to see how bright this one goes.


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## oregonshooter (Aug 29, 2006)

Thanks a bunch Auroralite! I'll see what they say. I'm not an electronics guy (my area is 13.8KV-120VAC) but what am I missing as far as needing more forward Vf than 2volts?

I take it it's not simple Ohms law here? I just figured 100ohmx3 into 6v = 2Vd?

Assuming they are series connected.


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## AuroraLite (Aug 29, 2006)

Jim,

When it comes to EE, I am dumb as a post to say the least. :huh: 

For the SF A2, each resistor is soldered next to an led, and each of these sets of led/resistor lies parallel to each other.

So if we were to take the full advantage of the THC3 red leds, and drive them at spec(2.4v, 80ma), then we'd expect a volt drop across each resistor as 3.6v.

For V = IR, R = 45ohms for each resistor.

If we don't bother to mod the resistors(and leave it at stock at 100 ohm each), then the current supplied to each led will be less which I = 36ma(underdriven at half of its spec).


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## oregonshooter (Aug 29, 2006)

Oh, Now I see. I thought people where saying that you could change them out direct without changing the resisters and you would be using max power. I guess they were saying that it would still be safe using the oversized 100ohms.

So is changing the resisters that big? Anyone know what wattage I need?

Maybe the THC3 is not a good choice as another if I want to stay stock on the resisters?

PS. I emailed them about Vfp, no word yet.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 1, 2006)

Jim,

I remembered hearing people who had used bigger resistor to solder onto the ring(for the ease of soldering), but the stock ring use SMD resistors which are quite small in size. 

The wattage of the resistor should not be a big issue since the current flowing thru is not that much. For the THC3 red led example, if the voltage dropped across the resistor is 3.6v, and the current going thru it is 80ma, then a resistor that could handle 0.288W will be just fine(which IIRC those SMD resistor should be able to handle).

Btw, any word from the vendor about the leds?


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## oregonshooter (Sep 1, 2006)

Nope, no answer.  Thanks for the added info though. I'll post the Vfmax here if I get it.


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## oregonshooter (Sep 10, 2006)

Well, I decided to buy them and try it anyway. Should have them in this next week. I'll post a beam shot against my standard red LEDs that I just finished sanding with 2000grit SP. Really smoothed out the beam and took 10 minutes!


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## Matt-man (Sep 21, 2006)

I just performed this mod on my A2. I used uncut SMJs that I got from the Sandwich Shoppe. I did have to grind down the ledge at the base of the LEDs, which I did by chucking each one in my drill and hitting it with a small file. Other than that I just swapped them straight in, and was done in about an hour. I found the easiest way to solder in the new LEDs was to put the LED ring flat on my bench, and then the new LEDs would stand up mostly straight when I put their leads into the holes. 

I'm happy with the results; there's definitely more light output and a nice floody pattern as noted above. Tint is pretty much unchanged from the stockers, which is fine since I wasn't unhappy with it before.

Many thanks for posting the guide. I've got glow powder on the way too but the LEDs arrived today and I couldn't wait.


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## AuroraLite (Sep 21, 2006)

Matt-man,

Happy to see it works for you! And I can promise you the GID powder will definitely makes it even cooler! :naughty: Btw, not to sound too much like an ad(which it is anyway), do check out Oregonshooter's A2 standing tailcap--I personally do like it a hack lot better than the original.

Jim,

How's the red THC3 coming along? Let us know and please do post some comparison beamshots!


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## oregonshooter (Sep 21, 2006)

It's done and working great. GreenLED is going to get it Friday to add to his beam shot comparisons.


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## Matt-man (Sep 21, 2006)

AuroraLite said:


> Happy to see it works for you! And I can promise you the GID powder will definitely makes it even cooler! :naughty: Btw, not to sound too much like an ad(which it is anyway), do check out Oregonshooter's A2 standing tailcap--I personally do like it a hack lot better than the original.



The tailcap guard is next on my list!

I also followed your link to the Mini-mag modding guide, which inspired me to throw one of my extra SMJs (I bought a 5-pack) into the 20+ year old Mini-mag that was sitting in a drawer. Direct drive, just trimmed the leads and drilled the reflector, works great. The AAA Mini-mag is next to go under the knife.


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## Phredd (Apr 19, 2007)

AuroraLite,

Thanks so much for posting this guide. I just finished the mod on my A2. [pat on back] I swapped the LEDs without removing the anode ring. Great smooth flood!

Phredd


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## Masque (Mar 4, 2008)

So, two years on, what's the latest/greatest LED I should be looking at for improving the A2's white LEDs? For that matter, red wouldn't hurt my feelings....


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## oregonshooter (Mar 4, 2008)

I've had my TH3 in red transplant for a while now and would highly recommend it. Look up user greenLED and his review of several LED transplants to see them.

http://www.lsdiodes.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=14


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## maxspeeds (Aug 5, 2008)

Bringing this thread back to life. Has anyone tried Nichia 310CS or 310DS leds? What is everyone's experiences with warm white 5mm leds? I'd like something along the lines of SVO or SRO tint, in relation to seoul emitters. Thanks in advance!


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## mitch79 (Sep 27, 2008)

I've ordered some warm white Nichia NSPL-500S led's from ledtech.de . I'll post results when I get them.

I really wanted to try some THC3 led's as they look nice and warm from the beam shots I've seen here.
Unfortunately it appears LSDiodes has gone out of business. 

The aim of this mod is to have white led's with a ~3300K colour temperature to match the main lamp.
I'm also changing the SMD resisters to 100R for operation with rcr123's.


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## mitch79 (Oct 26, 2008)

As per my post above I modded the LED ring of my A2 with Nichia NSPL-500S warm white LED's and 100 Ohm 0805 SMD resistors.

Current draw with AW's RCR123's and the 10 Ohm tailcap resister in series;

Fully charged, 4.16V per cell;
116mA. Or *38.67mA* per LED.

Fully discharged, 3.5~3.6V per cell;
84mA, or *28mA* per LED.

Nichia LED's are rated for 30mA nominal, 40mA max.

As promised here's the beam shots.

Camera set to daylight white balance, f/2.8 0.5sec exposure. Background is a white sheet.




*Stock white A2 with SF Primary's.*




*Nichia warm white LED's, 100R resistors, AW RCR123's.*




*LF HO-A2 bulb in modded A2 for colour reference.*


I really like these warm white LED's. no more blue!!

They do have a yellow cast to them compared to daylight, although not as much as the pictures depict.
It really does look like an extension to the main lamp, with a very similar colour temperature, just less lumens. 

I couldn't be happier with my rechargeable warm white A2 :twothumbs


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## Evil Twin (Oct 28, 2008)

I have a red led A2 being shipped to me that I really want to use rcr123s in. 

My question is since the red led A2s come with 100 ohm resistors, do I have to replace them with even higher value resistors in order to use the rechargeable cells (without overdriving the leds)?


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## mitch79 (Oct 28, 2008)

Red LED's have a lower forward voltage then whites so yes, I'd say you will have to change the resisters to run RCR-123's. 
IDK what value, might need to experiment a bit


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## type-x (Nov 3, 2008)

So just to clarify everything about the a2 with red leds, is that if you were to install a 35k mcd led it will be underdriven unless you go to a smaller resistor? also the only leds I have found here in Perth are 30k mcd is it even worth a try on the a2 with red leds?


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## mitch79 (Nov 3, 2008)

Depends. Are the new LED's also red, or white?
If your just swapping to new red LED's it should be fine.
If your swapping you red LED's to white ones it will be under driven on primary cells but just about perfect for use with RCR-123's.


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## type-x (Nov 3, 2008)

mitch79 said:


> Depends. Are the new LED's also red, or white?
> If your just swapping to new red LED's it should be fine.
> If your swapping you red LED's to white ones it will be under driven on primary cells but just about perfect for use with RCR-123's.


 Ahhhh ok then that clear things up thanks, yeah I was referring to replacing the red leds.


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## LED61 (Nov 19, 2020)

Bringing this thread back to life. After a few years, what is the whitest and brightest LED mod on the A2 ?


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