# need your opinion about best locking/closing mechanisms for me



## tubed (Mar 14, 2014)

I"m somewhat new to knives. 
I'm looking for 2 actually -Blade size 2-3" for both. One for general work (yard/house/boat), one more for sailing but both will be used a lot on boats, which brings up my question. 

I want not only easy one-hand opening but safe/easy one hand closing. On sailboat, other hand is usually grabbing rope or rail. And things can be very/suddenly unsteady. I've been researching quite a bit and here's what i've learned so far. Tell me what you think:
-I don't want a backlock knife as that (often) needs two hands. Although I am considering a little SOG blink as a tiny third knife option.
- I don't want a liner lock knife because my thumb has to cross the blade path while disengaging.
-I think I want a side lock like the benchmade Axis system
- An assisted opener would be good for two reasons. 1. quick easy open 2. the spring holds the blade out a bit after the lock is disengaged preventing it from closing before i'm ready (this would be really important in a liner lock knife, not so important (and maybe bad) in a side lock knife.

Knives currently under consideration:
General work - mini-griptillion, mini- barrage (max $), Gerber mini-swagger (blade too pointed). SOG twitch 1 or 2.
Sailing - Buck 753 Redpoint rescue knife (long story) I already have a standard small sailing tool with blade, marinspike

Any opinions on your favorite "one hand closer" would be appreciated.


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## schizeckinosy (Mar 14, 2014)

My favorite one handed closer was the old Gerber Bolt action lock on the side of the knife, but sadly that is not produced anymore. I suppose the Axis lock is similar to that. I would not rule out the liner lock though. Taking the Kershaw Blur out of my pocket, I verify that the choil, not the blade, impacts the thumb when closing. Still, you are right that the side locks would be safer.


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## 8steve88 (Mar 14, 2014)

tubed said:


> I"m somewhat new to knives.
> I'm looking for 2 actually -Blade size 2-3" for both. One for general work (yard/house/boat), one more for sailing but both will be used a lot on boats, which brings up my question.
> 
> I want not only easy one-hand opening but safe/easy one hand closing. On sailboat, other hand is usually grabbing rope or rail. And things can be very/suddenly unsteady. I've been researching quite a bit and here's what i've learned so far. Tell me what you think:
> ...



You seem to have it pretty well researched, the mini Griptilian is a very popular choice, I only have experience with the Chinese made Enlan and Ganzo Axis lock copies and they work great so the Benchmade versions should be very good. I don't know how well the SOGs would hold up to heavy work.
For the Sailing aspect you'll need a steel that won't rust, you could go the fixed blade - Spyderco Enuff Sheepsfoot there are many Spydercos with non-rust H-1 steel but all are backlocks apart from that one.
There's the new Spyderco Tusk with Marlinspike and shackle key, bit spendy though at $400.
Good luck with your knife hunt.


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## tubed (Mar 14, 2014)

thanks for the input.
Since I posted this I went to a camping store and was finally able physically try out some of these knives I had previously just watched video reviews of.
WOW
I actually found:
- side locking mechanisms (mini-barrage) were hard for me. I have big hands (and a messed up thumb) and I had trouble holding onto the knife well while pushing that button and then trying to use my index finger to move the blade.
-I think non- asssisted knives may be better for me in terms of closing as you can snap it closed sometimes
- Even though I don't want a long blade (more to injure me and scare people), smaller knives are hard to hold/use one-handed. I may have to re think this.
- I had way more trouble with thumb studs than I thought. They're so close to the handle that to get my thumb on them with some strength, I begin to lose grip with rest of hand. I'm thinking about a "flipper" style knife now.

I just came across the Emerson wave opening feature thing on the Kershaw site. Anyone have any expericence with that?


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## jabe1 (Mar 15, 2014)

The best true one handed knife that I know of, disregarding a butterfly, is the Okapi 3 star ratchet knife. Opens and closes with one hand, and locks the blade in place. It is not the best steel, or the most modern of components, but it does open and close one handed, and has a functional blade.
That being said, I would be looking for a simple liner or frame lock folder made of a high quality stainless steel. Try the Spyderco Salt series.
The Emerson opener is great if you always keep the knife in your pants pocket and always want it to open when you remove it. Besides that, it is just another liner lock knife (in my opinion). I own one, and will own more, but they take some getting used to.


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## ZNickey (Mar 16, 2014)

tubed said:


> I"m somewhat new to knives.
> I'm looking for 2 actually -Blade size 2-3" for both. One for general work (yard/house/boat), one more for sailing but both will be used a lot on boats, which brings up my question.
> 
> I want not only easy one-hand opening but safe/easy one hand closing. On sailboat, other hand is usually grabbing rope or rail. And things can be very/suddenly unsteady. I've been researching quite a bit and here's what i've learned so far. Tell me what you think:
> ...




My 2 ¢...

Your idea to have a general usage EDC and a boat EDC is a great idea...the ideal characteristics of each knife are wildly different and so you can get a knife made for each.

*Boat*
For knives in saltwater, Spyderco really leads the way as they have so many options in tried, tested, and affordable designs. While their marine-capable steel gets all of the press, they are also using component parts with materials like titanium so the components themselves do not wear over time and result in failure.

Characteristics that I would call ideal is going to be a hawkbill blade or a blade with a blunted tip in a steel like H1 or N680, which is hardened with nitrogen and is subsequently sporting extreme corrosion resistance that other steels cannot match. 

I mention a hawkbill specifically because it is an EXTREMELY aggressive cutter, and it's design dramatically reduces the chance of one stabbing themselves in the event of loss of control. Also, a fully serrated knife is also very useful for the application of being on a boat and cutting rope. So a serrated hawkbill is going to tear through the fibrous objects you see in marine usage...it will cut these objects with dramatically less force than other knives, at a much quicker speed. The advantage of that is when you are using the knife in an environment when you are more likely to lose control, if you are using a knife with less physical force, the slip of control can mean significantly less bad outcome and the reduced effort can help reduce the chance of a slip. It's the same logic of how the worst kitchen injuries come from dull knives because people use more force, slip, and make a worse wound.

In that sense, the Spyderco Tasman Salt is hard to beat...the yellow handle especially for visibility. Add a lanyard with a flotation device and you are golden. The Spyderco Salt 1 has a sheepsfoot blade which has a semi-blunted tip.

While these items are lockbacks, I would not worry too much about the closing aspect...you can close them without crossing the blade portion of the handle and close them in a fashion that if you fall or get jerked that you arent going to close on your hand. 

Beyond all though, I would strongly advise two-handed closing whenever there is a chance of significant vibration...and depending on the knife, even going as far to tighten the pivot so that the blade cannot move freely. Even the best one-handed closers are going to still have risks that come with any time a blade is allowed to swing freely...that risk is best reduced when both hands are used to avoid any point in which the blade is moving freely in such a fashion. A sheath is also useful. When I am out on the water and doing activities on more rough seas, I actually have a sheath for the Pacific Salt I generally carry so that it can be carried locked open on my belt as a fixed blade to avoid having to open/close during frequent usage when we're bouncing up and down.


*General Use EDC
*The nitrogen steels are great for marine usage, but when corrosion resistance is not pivotal, they are not the ideal steels because they do not have the edge retention and toughness that some other common steels do. For general usage, edge retention and toughness are the top choices...your usage will determine which is most important. I would say avoid SOG unless you go for their high end knives.

For general usage, the Benchmade Mini Ritter Griptilian is hard to beat. The AXIS lock is fantastic, the S30V blade steel is arguably one of the best knife steels ever invented, and the edge geometry is fantastic. As a high-flat grind, it can perform both heavy duty utility and fine slicing, which most knives cannot do. AXIS is the easiest one-handed closer of any common system. The standard Mini Grip is also a great knife, but the blade of the Ritter is a dramatic improvement and IMHO one of the best blades on any mass production knife...it is so good it literally rivals knives that cost 3x+!

Spyderco's Delica is also fantastic...if you are looking for a tool primarily to cut beyond everything else, one in the ZDP-189 or Super Blue steel is going to give almost shocking edge retention. The standard base VG-10 steel is also outstanding, and when toughness is also needed, it is hard to beat. VG-10 is also very easy to sharpen.

As far as assisted openers go, they can be useful but really accomplish no more or less than a well-designed manual folder. In some cases, they can make closing a pain. It's pretty easy to become proficient with whatever folder you choose, so if you like the designs of one but are unsure of the lock, I would not let that discourage you if it is a good knife.

Kershaw's Chive and Leek are great knives, but their standard steels are a real letdown in terms of performance. They do make them in some better steels on select models (S30V, D2, CPM-154, ZDP-189 among others), but these are generally limited editions in which prices are a good bit higher. KershawGuy sells a lot of factory blems and often has the S30V Leeks for a killer good price.

Pro-Tech's 2-inch 'Cali-legal' Sprint is simply outstanding and can be had in a carbon fiber for under $120. I would argue that the steel used (CPM-S35VN) is (next to ELMAX) the best all-around steel one can get on a folding knife for general usage. Like most Pro-Techs, the quality is outstanding as is the blade design.


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## tubed (Mar 17, 2014)

thanks Znickey
lots to think about. I checke out the Ritter griptilian. Love it. looks great.
I may have some more questions after a bit more searching.
I am beginning to think that given my slightly messed up R thumb, the Spydercos may be a better option. I'm leaning towards a Tenacious for now.
Any experience with flipper opening knives?


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## 8steve88 (Mar 18, 2014)

Flipper is my favourite method of opening a knife, Enlan EL-01 for choice, some need cleaning and lube before they are completely flippable without a wrist flick but they all wear in nicely with some use.
Kershaw Speedsafe knives are a good choice as well, not as delicate as some make out. If a spring snaps then Kershaw is more than willing to send you a replacement spring, even to the U.K. so the U.S.A. should be no problem. ZT makes some tough speedsafe flippers.
At the other end of the price range (mid to some) is the Spyderco Southard flipper.


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## tubed (Mar 18, 2014)

8steve88 said:


> Flipper is my favourite method of opening a knife, Enlan EL-01 for choice, some need cleaning and lube before they are completely flippable without a wrist flick but they all wear in nicely with some use.
> Kershaw Speedsafe knives are a good choice as well, not as delicate as some make out. If a spring snaps then Kershaw is more than willing to send you a replacement spring, even to the U.K. so the U.S.A. should be no problem. ZT makes some tough speedsafe flippers.
> At the other end of the price range (mid to some) is the Spyderco Southard flipper.



Thanks 
that Southhard looks perfect --but (for now) a bit too expensive.
Do you know of any flippers that don't have a frame or back lock? It's not super important but i'm trying to find knives where my fingers don't cross the blade path. like the benchmade axis lock or the Spyderco Manix2


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## 8steve88 (Mar 19, 2014)

tubed said:


> Thanks
> that Southhard looks perfect --but (for now) a bit too expensive.
> Do you know of any flippers that don't have a frame or back lock? It's not super important but i'm trying to find knives where my fingers don't cross the blade path. like the benchmade axis lock or the Spyderco Manix2




The only one that I can think of as the moment is the SanRenMu 9054MUC-GP but it's a slipjoint -






It has an ingenious mechanism where the liners are sprung and press on the blade givibg a really strong lock up but being readily closable.
.
This should give you an idea how it works, simple idea looks complicated but it really isn't. -




.
The detente that holds it open and closed stops it flipping freely, or so I've heard, I've got two in the post so I'll be able to tell myself in a week or two.
Those two "tongues" cut into the liners force the detente balls, on the end of the tongues, to engage with the tang of the knife. If they were "adjusted" by a bit of careful bending so that the grip wasn't as strong they would flip beautifully. All it needs in it's unmodified state is a bit of wrist action and it flips perfectly, the video will show that, at ~$14 shipped get one anyway.
.


Don't let the fact that it's a slipjoint put you off it really is a good locking system, I have the SanRenMu M1 and the SanRenMu 7053DUC-GVI both have this system and they lock up very well, both open and closed.


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## carrot (Mar 19, 2014)

Spydercos are really the easiest opening knives out there. After owning many, many, many knives I've come to the conclusion that the only knives I can consistently, quickly and safely open are Spydercos. The big round hole makes them fast to deploy and the handles are outstanding in bad conditions. 

I too would recommend you take a look at the Salt knives. They are made out of H1 steel and titanium and will never rust. In serrated form they easily out-cut any other knife out there. A serrated Tasman Salt will cut through nearly anything in a single slice. And Spyderco is also the only manufacturer who services and resharpens serrations as part of their customer service.

You rule out the lock back under the wrong assumptions -- Spyderco's lock backs are expressly designed as a one-handed locking mechanism. They have a strong detent so they are difficult to open accidentally and an audible click that assures you that it is locked, every time. Closing it is as simple as squeezing the back lock, flicking your wrist, then closing the blade fully once you move your fingers out of the way. There are lots of videos on YouTube. 

Finally, I would rule out assisted opening mechanisms completely. The springs that actuate the assisted opening mechanism on many knives are especially prone to rust and the assist spring makes the knives tricky and fiddly to close. I have dropped an assisted more than once trying to close it one handed, but I have never dropped a Spyderco lockback.


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## tubed (Mar 19, 2014)

Thanks again.
Yes. .. I think i have completely given up on assisted openers. Seems unnecessary these days.
The flipper mechanism interests me a lot too.
I saw a Benchmade axis flipper (300sn) that looked almost perfect for me ( i like 3 inch blade and big handle) but in a review video I saw something troubling (that I don't understand). The review showed that the knife can open a bit with only minimal pressure on the flipper. I thought the Axis lock locked it closed as well as open. That should'nt happen, should it?? 
Any Benchmade 300sn owners out there?

Here are the knives on my possible list now: (this is for a really general (not dedicated boating) knife, - garden, ropes, camping, woods, odd jobs, a little boating)
Benchmade mini griptillion - with the spyderhole/sheepsfoot blade
Benchmade Axis Flipper (300SN) - unless it does not lock closed, don't want it opening in my pocket. I've read lots of horror stories
Spyderco Manix2 - has a side lock like Benchmade
Spyderco Tenacious - lots cheaper and (like Carrot said) maybe liner locks (sorry, back locks) are ok
Spyderco Southard - if i hit Powerball


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## ZNickey (Mar 19, 2014)

tubed said:


> thanks Znickey
> lots to think about. I checke out the Ritter griptilian. Love it. looks great.
> I may have some more questions after a bit more searching.
> I am beginning to think that given my slightly messed up R thumb, the Spydercos may be a better option. I'm leaning towards a Tenacious for now.
> Any experience with flipper opening knives?



Honestly, any of the modern one-handed mechanisms are pretty easy to master. It's more just the learning curve than anything else. I personally find flippers to be the most difficult...and AXIS the easiest since you do not need to use the thumb stud to open it. As a big frame lock user, most of my knives are thumb stud openers. I strongly prefer a hole or stud to a flipping mechanism...I also do not like how the flippers feel in the pocket as much as a more sleek, compact knife.

Spyderco makes a great knife. The Tenacious is awesome for the money. With that said, it's not going to give much in terms of edge retention compared to the higher end Spydercos that use steel like VG-10, which offers dramatically improved edge retention and toughness. While people do not talk much about VG-10, it is an exceptional steel, very underrated, and Spydero heat treats it in a fashion that pushes it to the max.

I also think the sabre grind on the Delica/Endura is partly what makes it so awesome. While not as great a slicer as a full flat grind, it's a beefy grind, maximizes tip robustness, provides great edge retention, and can take some pretty bad abuse without rolling/chipping.

If you are really stuck on what to do for an EDC, a Spyderco Delica or Mini Griptilian (Ritter ideally) is where you cannot go wrong for value vs performance and it's a great carry companion. Both knives at around 3 inches are capable of fine work, heavy work, carry well, are affordable, use great steels, and are easy to upkeep. They are so great that they perform on a level of most knives that cost twice as much or more.


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## tubed (Mar 19, 2014)

thanks
this is how my flashlight "problems" started. I wanted one perfect high quality universal light I could use for everything. I now have about 7 great lights (more to come). I'm guessing that within a year I'll have a dedicated boating knife, a midsize general purpose, and I'm now interested in small pocket knife too (like the soon to be Kershaw Ember)

Oh, and do you know, does the axis lock lock the knife closed as well as open>?


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## ZNickey (Mar 19, 2014)

tubed said:


> thanks
> this is how my flashlight "problems" started. I wanted one perfect high quality universal light I could use for everything. I now have about 7 great lights (more to come). I'm guessing that within a year I'll have a dedicated boating knife, a midsize general purpose, and I'm now interested in small pocket knife too (like the soon to be Kershaw Ember)
> 
> Oh, and do you know, does the axis lock lock the knife closed as well as open>?



AXIS holds knives closed using one of the strongest mechanisms to do so that is not a back lock. It does not physically "lock" the knife shut (only automatics physically "lock" it shut to a point in which it cannot be freely opened until the lock is disengaged by pressing the button to start the spring/torsion bar opening mechanism). Back locks and spine locks historically have the strongest closed retention by default (other than something using an automatic/button system, of course). Still, AXIS is very strong and AXIS locks only open when the user intentionally opens them.

There are well over 10 common ways makers use to keep knives closed when closed to prevent it opening in a pocket...provided it is a good knife from a good maker, it will function flawlessly. Cheaper knives on the other hand are nowhere near as reliable or consistent.




The pursuit for the perfect EDC with a knife is probably like what I imagine to be with a flashlight (I am much bigger on knives). Many of today's knives are overly large, too bulky, too heavy, use a blade so thick it slices terribly, and use locks so (unnecessarily) strong they lose practicality. Many use the "Americanized Tanto," which I think is the most useless single development ever in the history of modern knives. These features are most commonly found on knives advertised in a "tactical" sense. I don't think they are very useful for general purpose EDCs, and find them to have limited practicality in general. That's just me...opinions on this vary.

For a general usage EDC, I think around 3-3.5 inches is ideal, and rather than brute strength, good design is what should allow the knife to work well. Edge geometry is huge, as the design of the blade will determine how effective and efficient the knife is at cutting. A good blade steel will allow the knife to be set at a fine angle without the edge easily damaging and help ensure tip integrity. Good ergos will allow a user to reduce the chance of injury from a 'slip'. A good pocket carry system, opening mechanism, and lock all make general use of the knife more enjoyable, safer, and much easier in the grand scale of things. 

The Ritter Grip's blade is so great because it uses a "high flat grind"...this grind gives both strength and slicing power, allowing the Ritter to fill its true multi-usage role as an EDC. The Benchmade Grip with the round hole uses a hollow grind...while an excellent slicer, this blade grind is the weakest of modern grinds and the edge will deform quicker under usage and the physical integrity of the blade is lesser because more steel is removed than with a flat, convex, Scandi, sabre grind, etc. I think flat and sabre grinds are better choices for general usage knives personally because hollow grinds simply dull too fast, the edges tend to sustain more serious deformation (chipping instead of rolling), and tend to result in tips with lesser strength than other grinds.

Two other knives I forgot to mention are the Spyderco Sage 2 Titanium and Pro-Tech TR-3 Integrity. The latter is my favorite production knife. Both of these are titanium frame locks (AKA Reeve Integral Locks) similar to what is used on the Chris Reeve Sebenza. Both of these two knives are fabulous and IMHO are some of the best values on the world of knives and are the respective companies at their finest. (The TR-3 Integrity is in CPM-S35VN steel, which is an added bonus as it is a fantastic steel and IMHO one of the best all-around knife steels ever made next to ELMAX.)


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## tubed (Mar 19, 2014)

thanks for all that
more to research!!


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## Samlittle (Mar 20, 2014)

ZNickey said:


> Two other knives I forgot to mention are the Spyderco Sage 2 Titanium and Pro-Tech TR-3 Integrity. The latter is my favorite production knife. Both of these are titanium frame locks (AKA Reeve Integral Locks) similar to what is used on the Chris Reeve Sebenza. Both of these two knives are fabulous and IMHO are some of the best values on the world of knives and are the respective companies at their finest. (The TR-3 Integrity is in CPM-S35VN steel, which is an added bonus as it is a fantastic steel and IMHO one of the best all-around knife steels ever made next to ELMAX.)



+1 on the Spyderco Sage 2 - among so many other Spyderco options. Available in the $ 160 +/- range. The Spyderco Tusk was mentioned above as salt water knife - good choice and though pricey not so bad as was indicated - currently going from $ 210.00 to $ 240+/-. You need to shop around.


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## tubed (Mar 21, 2014)

(after even more research)
This is insane! (but a lot of fun) So many variables. The transition from flashlights to knives is very organic.
I was already to pull the trigger on a Spyderco manix 2 only to figure out that there are 2 versions. (acutally 3 if you count the XL). A regular and a "lightweight" - as far as I can tell, the exact same knife only one has a metal liner and the other doesn't -- one is 5 oz one is 2 and change. 
I like the idea of heavy solid knife more but I'll be using this mostly in Summer with shorts and don't want it pulling my pants down. Ha.

Its now very clear that like flashlights - you just have to jump in at some point and start using, then you truly figure out what you want/need. Now I have to decide, do I jump in cheap or expensive.


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## carrot (Mar 21, 2014)

I have both Manix 2s. I vastly prefer the Manix Lightweight, but it doesn't feel as rock solid as the standard Manix 2. The handles are a little bit flexy if you squeeze them but I've never once thought the handles were too weak for any actual cutting chores. If you are used to beefy knives, though, the Manix Lightweight will feel flimsy. But it's never let me down.

That said, the Manix Lightweight is my top choice for a lightweight folder when I am wearing shorts as you'll forget it's there but you have a full-sized knife with a full-sized handle with all the confidence and security that lends. The shape of the grip feels like it is custom made for your hands and you can easily choke up higher on the blade for precision tasks.

The price is good and the blue translucent handles are cool. The locking mechanism isn't as easy to actuate as the Axis but it's theoretically stronger (the solid metal backstop and ball bearing are stronger parts than the bars that Benchmade uses) and won't wear out from heavy use in the same way (coil springs have better longevity than the Omega springs used by Benchmade). But- you can still use the locking mechanism very easily with a a little bit of practice.


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## ZNickey (Mar 21, 2014)

tubed said:


> (after even more research)
> This is insane! (but a lot of fun) So many variables. The transition from flashlights to knives is very organic.
> I was already to pull the trigger on a Spyderco manix 2 only to figure out that there are 2 versions. (acutally 3 if you count the XL). A regular and a "lightweight" - as far as I can tell, the exact same knife only one has a metal liner and the other doesn't -- one is 5 oz one is 2 and change.
> I like the idea of heavy solid knife more but I'll be using this mostly in Summer with shorts and don't want it pulling my pants down. Ha.
> ...




I like my Manix Lightweight a lot...they designed the knife exceptionally well, the lock is fantastic, the erogs are great, and the color is awesome...but I absolutely HATE the steel (Carpenter's BD1) and wish they offered it in VG-10, CPM-154, CPM-S30V/S35VN, ELMAX, CTS-XHP or something along those lines. I think it is the worst-performing steel found on any of Spyderco's performance EDC knives in terms of edge retention...which is a big letdown from Spyderco as they are a company known for using high-end and even exotic steels. While easy to sharpen, it loses its razor edge super fast, and doesn't do well keeping a workable utility edge compared to many other knives in this price range. I would say that I have to sharpen/polish BD1 steel about 3-5 times as often as Spyderco's CPM-S30V (found on the standard Manix Mini...which I do not own but I do own a Paramilitary 2 and numerous other Spydercos in CPM-S30V.) I would estimate my Spyderco Delica in ZDP-189 or ParaMilitary in Bohler M390 steel (or any of their S90V models) can do about 10-20 times the cardboard cutting work of BD1 before needing sharpening, for comparison...possibly even more given how dramatic the difference in wear resistance is (even though the rockwell hardness of M390 and BD1 are very close.)

With all that said, Spyderco spoils us. The VG-10 and CPM-S30V steels which are their most commonly used steels are both outstanding steels that make dramatic improvements over older stainless steels. Spyderco has mastered the heat treatment of these steels and really push them to their limits, giving fantastic edge retention, toughness, and corrosion resistance. So while BD1 steel isn't as bad at my first statement makes it to be, I think it can get annoying after one uses VG-10, S30V, CPM-154, etc. for an extended period of time and gets used to the properties those steels have. So I would not let the steel necessarily dissuade you...but if you want a knife for heavier usage that gives notable edge retention and toughness under heavy usage, BD1 arguably is not it.


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## ZNickey (Mar 21, 2014)

I should also add that it is worth noting that it is hard to quantify edge retention because the material that is being cut has a dramatic impact on what happens to the edge, and each steel does better with certain materials. Cardboard is brutal because it is quite abrasive...steels with low wear resistance will dull quickly and dramatically because the abrasiveness of cardboard deforms the edge as you cut it...some of the newest steels with ultra-high wear resistance will almost not be impacted. Rockwell hardness only tells us so much about edge retention...

Something like M390 or CPM-S90V are capable of cutting objects that tend to severely dull blades with minimal edge deformation (dulling)...they are monsters when it comes to cutting cardboard and other objects. While their rockwell hardness is often no greater than many low-end steels (often 'only' around 60), it is their compositions and carbide sizes/distributions which gives this steel incredible capability to be minimally-affected by even highly abrasive objects. A M390 blade at 60 HRC outperforms most other steels greater than 65 HRC...a M390 or S90V blade combined with good edge geometry will have edge retention that is almost shocking. They can go all day and then some... So Rockwell Hardness has some limitations. While my ZDP blades are around 64-66 HRC, my M390 blades at 60-62 consistently outperform them (and most every other steel.)

Steels with very low wear resistance are going to be severely dulled by something like cardboard as it will quickly deform the edge (just a few cuts of thick cardboard will often dramatically dull it and kill the razor edge.) Steels like M390 are liked so much because they are capable of cutting through almost anything a general usage knife will see, without the edge suffering the severe deformation. So depending on the cutting you do and the amount of edge retention you want, the steel itself can make a dramatic difference.


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## dss_777 (Mar 22, 2014)

So I guess if you're going to actually USE your knives, it would be nice to know how to keep them sharp.

:thumbsup:


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## tubed (Mar 23, 2014)

As of right now --- and this could change by morning. I'm in love with the benchmade axis flipper. ($$$$) I like the Manix's a lot but now i'm thinking an 8 inch knife is a little big. The BM is closer to 7" 
i think i might get 3 knives (eventually)
A (smaller) spyderco persistance ($35); a really small, SOG twitch 1, and eventually a Benchmade axis. Then again, the Manix is made in the town my wife grew up in....it's karma.


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## ZNickey (Mar 24, 2014)

You'll really like the 300 and the Manix. The 300 is a cool flipper in the sense that it still has thumb studs and the studs are very easy to use (a lot of flippers do not have them or have them and they are hard to use.) The 300's 154CM and Manix's CPM-S30V are fantastic steels, the knives are ergonomic, the locks are great, the edge geometry is fantastic, the handle materials rock...you really can't go wrong with them and you won't be able to go without it! 

But if you do get either of them, I dare say you won't use the Twitch much, or at all...once one gets a Benchmade or Spyderco and experiences the premium steels, fantastic ergonomics, and fantastic edge geometry...well...it's hard to go back! IMHO, the similar-sized Spyderco Delica is a few tiers of quality & performance above the Twitch for essentially the same price (the ZDP or SuperBlue Delica arguably quite a few tiers more.) If you are looking at a $50-60 2.7-ish inch compact folder, the Delica is so much nicer than most other knives in that category that it often isn't even really comparable, IMHO. If you get a chance, I highly recommend handling one as I would argue it is one of THE premier folding knives made (and without doubt it is the knife that really changed the world in that it made legal, one-handed opening knives a common feature of pocket knives!)


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## tubed (Mar 24, 2014)

thanks Znickey
It is now clear to me why folks have so many knives - much like flashlights. there's not really a single perfect one .... so we buy a bunch but we keep looking.
What i was thinking about with the twitch was that i should have one very small knife (in addtion to the others) for my version of an EDC. (I actually have a Gerber Curve multi tool on my keys with about a 1/2" blade) Most of my life I'm inside so i wanted something quite small -- probably go in the pocket, not clipped. Now thinking about a Kershaw chive but the blade's a bit too pointed. I know spyderco makes them that small too. (manbug, etc). I'm just a sucker for the flipper.


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## 8steve88 (Mar 25, 2014)

There's always the Spyderco Domino flipper. Domino Always supposing the Censorship driven forum filter will display the link.


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## tubed (Mar 26, 2014)

boy, just when i thought i'd scoped out every flipper there was... I thought the Southhard was the only Spyderco flipper.
Still haven't pulled the trigger on anything yet. I think I enjoy the hunt.
I just saw two quite negative reviews of the BM 300sn flipper I had my heart set on. 
Now leaning more towards the Manix 2. This Domino looks perfect.... except the price tag.


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## ZNickey (Mar 26, 2014)

If you like the Domino, it's a great investment in an EDC that will last decades!

The Domino is nicer to EDC than the 300 IMO because the 300 is a very thick knife and can be uncomfortable at times...it's also a little heavier and it tends to 'poke' a little through pocket at times. I like my 300, but I like the Domino a lot better. And while the 154CM on the 300 is really nice steel, the CTS-XHP on the Domino is outstanding (as is their full flat grind.) You can often find them lightly used on knife forums for very reasonable prices and you can save a ton and still get an almost-new knife. I've seen it new for as little as $160 and used for as little as $90...finding such prices takes a little hunting, but is really doable.

The Domino also uses the titanium Reeve Integral Lock (AKA frame lock), which I think is the best locking mechanism for a folder made when reliability, longevity, strength, tolerances, and ease of usage is desired.

But the Domino is a seriously awesome knife and one of the best EDC knives Spyderco has ever made IMHO (and they've made many!) Even the most discriminating of knife nuts can't say enough good things about it. If you like it, my vote is to get that (even if you only buy 1 knife instead of two...as it will do well in almost any role.) You wont regret it, and you will fall in love with the steel and the quality of the total package!


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## tubed (Mar 26, 2014)

thanks for that.
yes. at this point if you were to add up all the qualities i'm looking for from perfect size, weight, opening style, carry-ability,this would be it (the Domino). and yes - at this point, 150 vs 200 for a knife I hope to own/use for decades is not a big deal. Part of me wants to buy 20 knives but another part wants to just find one perfect knife. (same with flashlights).

time to chew on it some more. the BM300 beats it a bit on asthetics-- it's just so cool looking. But from what i've seen in reviews it has some significant flaws (poor action, heavy weight, thick). 
I've been looking on Amazon, BladeHQ, Knifeworks -- any other suggestions?


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## ZNickey (Mar 26, 2014)

The Domino is the knife that can fill virtually any role a daily carry knife is supposed to, and do it really well. They make a Blue version which looks cooler than the black. Beyond cosmetics, the Domino is in every way a better knife than the 300...it's not even really a comparison due to such significant improvements IMO. After the short-term looks factor wears off, what will last forever is the amazing XHP steel, superior edge geometry with a full flat grind, the Reeve titanium lock which gives the tightest and most enduring lockup in the industry, better ergonomics, easier opening/closing with the flipper or the manual hole, a better pocket clip design and a much more comfortable carry, and they ability to detail strip the knife 100% yourself for cleaning and tuning and easily being able to reassemble.

If you are stuck due to how many different models or certain features there are, I think the Domino is your knife based on your performance criteria. I've carried my 300 like maybe 3 times...I like the knife but hate the form factor and how it 'pokes'.

Some others are GP Knives, Adams KnifeWorks, HKS, BladeForums, KnifeForums, KnifeCenter, Cutlery Shoppe, Plaza Cutlery, True North Knives

Some offer the ability to return/exchange for free if the knife is unused. You could always buy from one of them and try a Domino, although I will wager you a large sum of money that you keep it, love it, and never look back...


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## tubed (Mar 27, 2014)

you're a very good salesman
thanks


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## SubLGT (Sep 15, 2015)

ZNickey said:


> ...(The TR-3 Integrity is in CPM-S35VN steel, which is an added bonus as it is a fantastic steel and IMHO one of the best all-around knife steels ever made next to ELMAX.)...



The CPM-S35VN steel is also found in the Spyderco Native-5 folding knife. It sells for about the same price ($90) as the similarly sized Benchmade Mini Griptilian (with 154CM steel)


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## Spade115 (Sep 15, 2015)

Have you thought of an Auto?
S&W makes a decent knife, and they have a lock incase you want to put it in your pocket wont slice into your leg.


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## ellaanbeauty (Sep 21, 2015)

dss_777 said:


> So I guess if you're going to actually USE your knives, it would be nice to know how to keep them sharp.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Yes, can't agree more with you.
Only when we own something belong to ourselves will we value it can learn more about how to protect it.


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