# Boost your thor! 15MCP -> 25MCP ?



## andrewwynn (May 25, 2006)

Ok.. LarryK getting into trouble again with spotlights.. he brought down his thor '15MCP' light the other day with the idea of re-working the two switches to add in a series set of NiMH batteries to boost the voltage. 

After looking at the circuitry i came up with the schematic above. 

The lamp is a bizarre thing i've never seen before.. the filament is actually one long filament split in two.. wired in series.. for 'low beam'.. both filaments are lit in series.. for high beam.. one filament is shorted out and only the higher wattage part is used.. see the diagram. 

through a very helpful coincidence, they used 2 separate SPDT switches.. so it's possible to re-wire as shown above with NO additional hardware or external modification. 

We tried with 4 cells.. don't recommend that unless you are taking pictures. 

doing the math, and using their certainly optimistic but nonetheless 'baseline' '15MCP'.. 

with the stock unit i will estimate 13.3MCP with the voltage drop we measured at the lamp.. 

Adding in ONE 1.2V cell.. 18.6MCP

Adding in TWO cells.. 25.5MCP.. should be quite white and bright! 

Adding in three cells.. good luck.. 33.7 MCP.. 

Four cells.. 43MCP for 1/100th of a second :-D

If the lamp is rated at 100hrs.. you should be able to get away with 2-3cells overdrive... especially if you warm up the filament on the NEW 'low beam' before kicking in high beam. I forget the voltage that Newbie was it? was pushing the thor to with the boost driver. 

Well.. this is a pretty dirt-simple mod to make a really cheap light quite likely twice as bright. 

I put in a 'preheater' option that uses the low filament to warm up the main filament so you don't hit it with 50A or whatever it takes to start the lamp cold.. but i don't think it's necessary.. 

If you follow the circuit you will see that the 'low' switch becomes on/off and the 'high' switch becomes the 'high/low' selector. 

If you have it in 'high' and turn it on.. expect to buy a new lamp. 

Using NIMH cells the risk of over discharge is not very high.. but be aware that the 'high' is meant for momentary bursts not full time operation.. it would not be a bad idea to incorporate some type of low-voltage sensor or cut out for the NiMH cells. 

Hope somebody can take advantage of the circuit.. The light does not have enough output or beam quality for me to mess with.. I'm all about the LK14 instead. 

-awr


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## mdocod (May 25, 2006)

I never thought of adding a NIMH cell in series with a lead-acid battery- I guess the idea of mixing chamistries is a little weird to me.... But a good 10AH D cell NIMH should drain at a similar rate as the SLA- I would expect... I may just have to try this mod sometime soon... Any suggestions on where to buy, or how to build a little 2-3 D cell carrier that can handle some serious current?


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## andrewwynn (May 25, 2006)

It was weird to me also.. but unimportant when you consider the way it's used.. it can NOT be used start to finish.. you will have problems when the NIMH deplete before the SLA.. eventually the NIMH would drop to zero and reverse charge if you left it on and in 'high'.. it's definitely a 'know what you are doing' scenario.. fortunately.. it's not very hazardous.. you'd just ruin your cells. 

It really doesn't matter that the NIMH drain faster.. you will just loose your 'boost'.. the idea is.. using boost as afterburner only. 

The best solution for the 2-D NIMH (or subc).. probably get a pack with spade lugs on it built.. or at least with some 12-14 ga wire you can add them.. you just need a single spade female on one side and a double-headed spade female on the other (neg) side. You can do testing with some heavy duty magnets.. soldering a wire to some steel or using crimp on steel spades is a good way to do easy testing. 

-awr


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## mdocod (May 25, 2006)

good call- I happen to have a large stash of hard drive neodynium magnets around here-- somewhere, lol.... If I ever get around to trying it- i'll certainly take beam-shots, (I have some weird affixiation to taking beamshots).


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## andrewwynn (May 25, 2006)

you like beamshots.. check out http://rouse.com/beams especially the last few pages with the 14,000 lumen LK14! 

PS.. be VERY careful wiring.. and triple check that the switches are BREAK before MAKE or you'll short out your NIMH pack flipping from low to high beam. 

It's just amazing that the switches built in are pre-made for this mod! 

Actually.. hell even if you don't do the mod.. you should re-arrange the wires so that the left switch is on/off and the right is high/low.. the current arrangement is pretty silly IMHO. 

simply move the 'low beam' leg from the 'low' switch to the 'NC' leg of the 'high' switch.. then remove the jumper between the commons from the 'high' switch.. you then have to add in a jumper from the NO side of the low switch to the common of the high switch.. that easy..

then you will have a 'high/low' selector.. and an 'on/off' switch. 

-awr


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## mdocod (May 25, 2006)

one of the first things I did to my thor is redo the wiring to the bulb such that I could run both filaments simultaniously- also replaced all the internal wire with 14GA- which made a noticable improvement.. I did a few other things too- which can be seen in the second link in my sig, hehe.... I can always add more toggles or switches for more mods...


There has been a discussion running in the batteries/electronics section about displacing the 7AH SLA with NIMH packs.... seems to me like a 14.4V NIMH pack might crank these bulbs pretty nicely... might need to rest the cells for a day or 2 to keep from instaflashing however. We really just need a booster with soft-start available for these things. Would be much more managable.


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## andrewwynn (May 25, 2006)

i thought about re-wiring to have both filaments.. but that was vetoed because of the shield.. i'd rahter overdrive the high filament more than waste energy on the shielded one.. it's an interesting thought though. 

It's a low-end light though.. the beam quality yikes.. but a lot of light for the $ and worhthy of these 'gimme' mods. 

-awr


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## mdocod (May 25, 2006)

I was contimplating mounting an Osram 12V100W in there... but i'm having a hard time convincing myself that it is the best idea- I am a bizzare one that really likes the half-moon flood that the low-beam generates... It's a more usefull output for flooding a field or a backyard in front of you- then you can switch to high beam or both beams to really check something out spacific.

I saw those LarryK14 shots compared to other spotlights-- the thing is utterly jaw-dropping...


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## andrewwynn (May 25, 2006)

jaw dropping that is for certain! i agree there could be useful featues of the shaded filament.. for flooding a field i use an X990 :-D if i want a 'dead spot' i use a maxabeam.. for shock and awe.. LK14! 

-awr


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## larryk (May 26, 2006)

There's a ton of room in the cavity behind the 15 MCP Thor's reflector for an extra booster battery pack. I can't speak for the 10 MCP Thor without the extention on the head though. As far as using a 12 cell 14.4 volt pack you should be fine. That is how my Collins Dynamics is set up from the factory, and also uses automotive bulbs. You might even be able to get away with 13 cells at 15.6. AWR and myself tested 4 nimh batteries plus the 12 volt SLA and flashed the bulb. The nimh's were right off the charger though giving a nominal voltage of 16.8. I like your idea of modding it to use the Osram 100 watt bulbs. I just thought it would be neat to have a boost button.


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## nemul (May 26, 2006)

i might have to try this on my 10mil... 
try it with a 160watt H4 that's on ebay!!!


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## lasercrazy (Jun 4, 2006)

Any shots of the actual switch and how it's wired. Maybe my brain is just asleep or something but I'm having a hard time imagining how the wires are hooked up.


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## andrewwynn (Jun 5, 2006)

Using that schematic.. here are a couple 3D models to describe them:











Description: 

Red is Bat+.. Blue is Bat -.. Green is 'low' and orange is 'high'. 

what was the 'low' switch is the left and what was the 'high' is in the center.. on the right, the circle represents the lamp. 

In the before picture.. red is common on both switches.. and only one side of the SPDT is used.. on and off.. with the 'low' (left switch) turned on.. current goes through the green wire only to the low terminal and goes through both filaments.. they are in series so each gets only partial voltage and you get 'low output'... when the high switch is turned on.. the low switch is ignored.. on or off it doesn't matter.. Bat+ goes directly to the high terminal.. shorting out the low filament regardless of the low switch. 

Ok.. in the After. the 'low' switch on the left becomes 'on/off'.. supplying power neg. of the booster battery and to the 'low' side of the 'high-low' switch.. the common of the 'high-low' switch goes to the HIGH filament terminal. 

If the high/low switch is in 'high' the current path is through the boost battery.. if the high/low switch is in the 'low' position, the current goes directly to the high filament terminal. 

That should make things more clear.. mind you this is an example.. the exact ckt you need to measure continuity.. especially to make sure that the switches are break before make.. if not .. the boost battery would be shorted out when switching between high and low beam. 

I would not recommend going straight to high beam, at least not with a dead cold filament.. warm up the filament in low than kick in high beam. 

-awr


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## LumenHound (Jul 3, 2006)

Super Duper Mod.
Thor to Ultra Thor.

Bump.


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## LED BriCK (Jul 29, 2006)

I just found this thread after buying the Sport Spot 15,000,000 Power Series from Sam's Club, which I think is a rebranded Thor (or at least Thor-type), and I have a few questions about this mod. Please forgive my noobness...
1) Would it be possible to do this with AA NiMH, or don't they have enough capacity to make it worthwhile? How much mAH should I be looking for?
2) How do you check to see if the switch is break before make, and what can I expect to blow up if I get it wrong and short the booster cells?
3) Finally, what do I need to know about making a holder for the cells? I didn't really understand what you guys were saying about magnets and spade lugs, and the comment about it needing to "handle some serious current" has me thinking I can't just stick some cells in there. 
Thanks for any advice! This mod has me kind of excited to try! :twothumbs


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## LumenHound (Jul 29, 2006)

We need to know if you own a multimeter?


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## LED BriCK (Jul 29, 2006)

LumenHound said:


> We need to know if you own a multimeter?


Yes, I do. I think I have everything I need except a pre-made cell carrier and know-how. I was hoping I could take the DC charge cable out of it's storage compartment on the side and just stick the cells in there, even with some kind of rudimentary contacts I could just electrical tape onto the poles of the cells for a quick-and-dirty boost. Certainly if a more elegant solution presents itself in the future, I could upgrade, but for now, I just want to see the light!


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## typhoon (Jul 30, 2006)

Hello-

I just got my 160/100 H4's in the mail. Yup- kinda expensive at 40 bucks a pop. But what the hell....
Swapped bulbs the the OEM H4 and Tried it. Holy Sh&t.. is this thing bright. I would estimate at least a 3000' throw. I will try the measure thing using Google Earth tomorrow. 

But I was thinking.... I was going to mod the light using the schematic up higher in the thread... And it dawned on me.. Why hasn't any one dumped the 12V SLA for a 14.4V battery pack from a Craftsman rechargable drill. 

I could use some feedback on the 14.4 thing so I figured I ask...


Thanks

B


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## kinseykaylor (Jul 31, 2006)

typoon, 
I have the same question about ni mh's in spotlights, espcially when modded with HID's. I think it would be cheaper to load it up with ni mh's to increase runtime and output verses HID

Like the 20mil candle twin VEctor. On a diffent thread they were talking about modding to HID, It seams it would be cheaper to just upgade to Ni mh. prolly get same run time and instant on
Does anyone know where to get lots of cheap c or d Ni mh's?:lolsign:


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## typhoon (Jul 31, 2006)

How many ni mh's would be needed? They are not cheap so I will have to research this. I think I saw ni mh's in "D" size listed on battery web page but it's on the offuce PC so I will check tomorrow.

The lowest cost HID I heard of is something like 200 bucks for the kit. Ouch!!!!

I will post the link in the AM if I remember

B


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## larryk (Jul 31, 2006)

12 Ni-Mh batteries would work just fine as long as you buy good batteries that can handle high current. If you go with inexpensive cells you will be disappointed. Trust me I've been there.


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## LED BriCK (Aug 4, 2006)

LED BriCK said:


> I just found this thread after buying the Sport Spot 15,000,000 Power Series from Sam's Club, which I think is a rebranded Thor (or at least Thor-type), and I have a few questions about this mod. Please forgive my noobness...
> 1) Would it be possible to do this with AA NiMH, or don't they have enough capacity to make it worthwhile? How much mAH should I be looking for?
> 2) How do you check to see if the switch is break before make, and what can I expect to blow up if I get it wrong and short the booster cells?
> 3) Finally, what do I need to know about making a holder for the cells? I didn't really understand what you guys were saying about magnets and spade lugs, and the comment about it needing to "handle some serious current" has me thinking I can't just stick some cells in there.
> Thanks for any advice! This mod has me kind of excited to try! :twothumbs


 


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *LumenHound*
> _We need to know if you own a multimeter?_
> 
> ...


 
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be a nag, but I'm thinking this may get buried if I don't it! TIA!


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## LED BriCK (Aug 21, 2006)

Another thing, I understand the 15MCP claim to be overstated, but has anyone actually measured stock and boosted output?


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## Ra (Aug 21, 2006)

Well LED BriCK,

I can at least tell you what the output is of the stock version..

But I think you'll be a little dissapointed: I measured 3 Thors before modding them :

Using callibrated equipment one measured close to 400,000 cp.. (YEP... 0.4 million cp !!).. The other two just over 380,000 cp.

Halogen bulbs just don't have super high surface brightness.

I cannot tell you anything about the output of the boosted version but my guess is that they will end up somewhere in the 650,000-800,000 cp region.

Although the lumens output rises at the same rate as the cp-output, you cannot and may not compare the two !! Lumens-output and cp are two different things !!

Regards,

Ra.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 21, 2006)

Andrew, that is the first time I saw the .mac website/space....so slick, and yet one more thing for us PC users to be jealous of. I'm so close to going over to MAC.


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## LED BriCK (Aug 21, 2006)

Damn, Ra, ignorance on my part was bliss- I guess I shouldn't have asked! I eyeballed it compared to a "2MCP" and it didn't look 7.5 times as bright, so I figured it wasn't really 15,000,000, but I never would have guessed what you measured. Oh, well, it's still the brightest thing I own, but I wish I could afford a HID or xenon short-arc!


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## Ra (Aug 22, 2006)

Well LED BriCK,,

In fact the values I measured on these Thors are the highest values I ever measured comming from a halogen portable spotlight.
I also measured smaller spotlights, I think like the 2 Mcp one you mentioned, and I got an average of about 150,000 cp with one exeption at 200,000 cp!!

And here I'm only talking about lights with high-quality reflectors and bulbs !!

But apart form that: They ofcource have massive lumens-output...

I don't know what your modding skills are but you also can try to fit a bipin (GY6.35) halogen projection bulb: More lumens and more surface brightness: 1 million cp is possible to reach without the boost-option. 12volt 100watt is rated 3600lumens: that is an impressive 36 lumens/watt ! (Osram HLX 64625)

A problem with these bulbs is that the filament is smaller than the H4- filament of the standard Thor-bulb and is placed horizontally: Imperfections in the reflector-form will have a larger negative effect on the cp-output!

Another advantage: They run well on the 12volt SLA.. And even with the boost mentioned above they give better performance. BUT ... DON'T BOOST THEM WITH MORE THAN ONE CELL NIMH !! I could be wrong but I think with one cell lifespan will probably be reduced to about 10hrs or so. With two cells about 0.1 seconds??

Ofcource modding the Thor with HID is more expensive but has huge advantages: Higher lumens output at lower watts, higher cp-output: my HID-Thor reaches 4.5 million cp's/6000 lumens at high power (65 watts). You'll have much longer bulb life. And don't forget: HID gives you its rated output troughout the battery-charge. And they have higher colortemp (closer to daylight 4300K) There are HID-bulbs up to 10,000K colortemp but above 6,000K they become annoying blue! (and have lower lumens above 4300K)

The halogen Thor begins to dimm slowly directly after startup because of the increasing internal resistance of the battery!!

Regards,

Ra.


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## LED BriCK (Aug 22, 2006)

The bipin halogen projection bulb sounds tempting. I don't claim to have much modding skill, but I can cut, strip, and solder wire if it's something as simple as that. Do you know where I could get the supplies? I assume I'd need a socket and bulb and need to figure some way to fix it in the light.

The HID mod sounds really tempting, but I don't know the first thing about HID and wouldn't know where to begin.


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