# Fenix L0D-CE Comparison Review



## UnknownVT (Jan 29, 2007)

The long awaited Fenix Digital L0D CE Cree XR-E based 1x AAA light -
on loan through the kind courtesy of 4sevens (http://Fenix-Store.com)

with accessories -





included: pocket-clip, split (key)ring and spare O-ring.

Size -




the L0D-CE is a fraction longer than my L0P-SE - and looking at the photo more closely one can see the head on the L0D-CE is just a bit longer.

The L0P-SE head will fit on the L0D-CE body - but not the other way round.. the threads seem to want to bind - and I tried more than once - but I did not want to force anything.

Heads -





*Part 1* - 
compared to a L0P-SE (mod with UWAJ - about as good a LuxIII for this application) using Alkaline AAA

vs. Fenix L0P-SE Special both on default/Medium -







It's pretty obvious that the Cree based L0D-CE is quite a bit brighter.

vs. Fenix L0P-SE Special both on Low







similar difference in brighteness on the Low.

vs. Fenix L0P-SE Special both on High







So - not surprisingly the Cree based L0D-CE shows similar gain in brightness at all three levels over the L0P-SE (with UWAJ mod)

I have heard some ask is the default/Medium level on the L0D-CE as bright as the High on a L0D or L0P-SE?

L0D-CE on Medium vs. Fenix L0P-SE Special on High







simple answer is Yes.....

Cree dark halo - well there is a very slight hint of a dark halo - like there is a less so hint on the L0P-SE (LuxIII) - 
- if one looks carefully at the head - the reflector goes up to nearly the LED dome, hardly showing any of the silver surround - 
so the dark halo is very slightly there - probably will only bother the most critical.

Current draw readings -
AAA alkaline battery 1.418V open-circuit

Medium = 0.28A
Low = 0.13A
High = 0.75A

*Part 2* - using *3.7V Li-Ion* rechargeable *10440* - in Post #*14*

*Part 3* - "Practical" *Stairway* beamshots -in Post #*39* 

*Part 4* - L0D-CE on primary *alkaline* AAA vs. Fenix P1D-CE on primary *lithium* CR123A - in Post #*49*


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 29, 2007)

Great stuff!


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## daveman (Jan 29, 2007)

Sweetness, the thing's barely longer than the tiny P1.


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 30, 2007)

Mmm...

- Chris


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## 9volt (Jan 30, 2007)

fenix-store has/had them


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## LEDninja (Jan 30, 2007)

A bunch of people has got them & posted their impressions on this thread:

Fenix L0D CE – A quick first look and my impressions
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=150553

Still waiting for mine but Canada Customs is in the way.

EDIT

*L0D-CE*
Current draw readings -
AAA alkaline battery 1.418V open-circuit

Medium = 0.28A
Low = 0.13A
High = 0.75A

My curent draw at the battery for the *L0P-SE Special on UWAJ*

Alkaline AAA 1.516V Open-Circuit
NiMH AAA 1.344V o-c

Medium
Alk =0.28A
NiMH = 0.27A

Low
Alk = 0.13A
NiMH = 0.13A

High
Alk = 0.82A
NiMH = 0.80A

Looks like runtimes will be the same with the CE having a bit more on high.

---

The description said lobster claw so I paid an extra $6 for a pocket clip. Now I have 2. Time to find out what other AAA lights a Fenix pocket clip will fit.


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## frisco (Jan 30, 2007)

Is the UWAJ a stock emitter for the LOP-SE?

Just wondering why you would do a back to back against a modded light?

Sorry if this sounds stupid..... I'm not familiar with the LOP-SE

Thanks, frisco


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## wojtek_pl (Jan 30, 2007)

Soo.. There is no 'lobster claw' key chain clip ? Pity...


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## UnknownVT (Jan 30, 2007)

*frisco* wrote: _"Is the UWAJ a stock emitter for the LOP-SE?_
_Just wondering why you would do a back to back against a modded light?_
_Sorry if this sounds stupid..... I'm not familiar with the LOP-SE"_

No, the UWAJ is not a standard emitter for the L0P-SE (that is why I made it clear it is a "UWAJ *Mod*") -
and reason I used it is simple - it's the closest light I have.
(there is also a secondary reasoning - that a UWAJ is probably as good a LuxIII as one could use in the L0P-SE application - so one is comparing the new Cree against the best of Luxeon III's)

I gave the link to the full review of that Fenix L0P-SE Special (link) in my opening post above, 
and if you care to please take a look specicfically at Post #*22* (link) in that review thread - 
that is a direct comparison of the L0P-SE Special (with UWAJ mod) to a *stock L0P-SE* - 
which shows there was very little difference between it and the Stock version.


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## gadgetnerd (Jan 30, 2007)

I got my L0D-CE today and will try to post a few beamshot comparisons with my L0D.

In the mean time here's my take:

- Very much brighter than the L0D for any given level
- Wider less intense hotspot and much brighter spill than other fenix lux lights.
- My L0D-CE has slightly greenish beam with a few ringy artifacts (much less severe than my P1D-CE). Interestingly there is actually a small dark spot right in the centre of the hotspot. 
- PWM frequency is the same as the L0D (ie annoyingly slow)

In terms of overall light output (and allowing for differences in beam characteristics as described above)
- L0D-CE medium = L0D high 
- L0D-CE low = L0D medium
- L0D-CE high > L1T high (all 3 comparisons running freshly charged NiMH)

Recent experiences have taught me to set my expectations a bit lower with new fenix lights, but I have to say I'm very impressed with this one. L0D is officially retiring from EDC duty after only 5 weeks!


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## BobbyRS (Jan 30, 2007)

Great review! I would be interested in seeing the beamshots and comparisons with a Li-Ion 10440 cell in the L0D CE vs. the L0D. Plus, since I have a Millermod L0P, I would like to see the comparison to that as well if anyone can produce. Again, great review.


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## EngrPaul (Jan 30, 2007)

All three pictures look the same to me 

I had the same brightness results fitting Seoul emitters into my Fenix AAA's, but a smoother beam like stock.

But this thread is not about me... thanks for another exclellent review!


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## redduck (Jan 30, 2007)

Does L0D CE has a better regulation? I understand L0D is not regulated.


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## UnknownVT (Jan 30, 2007)

*BobbyRS* wrote: _"I would be interested in seeing the beamshots and comparisons with a Li-Ion 10440 cell in the L0D CE vs. the L0D."_

Your wish is (almost



) my command....

*Part 2* - L0D-CE on (AAA size) *3.7V Li-Ion 10440* -

Let's play in more "serious" company - how about the stunning Cree based Fenix P1D-CE?

L0D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion 10440 vs. Fenix P1D-CE on primary CR123A both on High







The L0D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion 10440 is brighter than the fabuolous P1D-CE on a primary CR123A - this is pretty remarkable for a light that's using an AAA battery.......

OK, not fair - the L0D-CE is using a 3.7V Li-Ion and the P1D-CE is not..... so....

L0D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion 10440 vs. Fenix P1D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123 both on High







amazingly the L0D-CE still looks brighter to me - maybe the hotspot is not quite as concentrated - 
so _speculation/guesswork_ - either the regulating circuit is not quite allowing the P1D-CE to be direct-driven, or maybe the Cree XR-E is a brighter bin?

These comparison beamshots at comparable levels are a good way to see/compare the Cree "dark halo" - the L0D-CE seems to have minimized it....

How about as good as a Luxeon III based light can get for now - the Fenix P1D (without CE designation) -

L0D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion 10440 vs. P1D also on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123 both on High







I don't like using the term "blow away"....
... so someone else can say it





This is a truly remarkable performance from such a dimunitive light -
I called my Fenox L0P-SE special (UWAJ) a gem among jewels of a light -
I am running out of superlatives for this L0D-CE

Current draw -
10440 Open-Circuit voltage = 4.03V
Medium = 0.38A
Low = 0.17A
High = 1.11A


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## frisco (Jan 30, 2007)

Hey Unknown, Thanks for connecting the dots for me. Great work!

Thanks, frisco


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## Stingray (Jan 30, 2007)

How does the LOD-CE compare to the PID-CE with both on primaries


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## cheapo (Jan 30, 2007)

you mind testing the runtime on high with li-ons?


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## Mike abcd (Jan 30, 2007)

Mine just arrived. It took 6 days to travel the 800 miles from Atlanta vs 10 days for my P1D CE shipped over Christmas. Weird because I get USPS first class mail deliveries from other vendors in 2-3 days from all over the US.

I just did some VERY crude measurements on total output. I've got an Extech meter but used a large styrofoam cooler that I haven't cut holes in yet for the light being tested or the light meter. The meter sensor is hung by its' cord vertically at the mid point on the "short" side near the bottom. I just laid the top of the cooler on at a slight angle to make enough space to shove the head into the cooler and aimed the LED at the far opposite corner near the bottom. No light is striking the sensor directly and moving the aiming point around only gives a few per cent variation.

I did say it was crude 

Comparisons are to my P1D CE readings on medium assuming the P1D CE is 59 lumens. The L0D CE used a 1000 mA Maha Powerex AAA that was charged last night and was run in the L0D CE 2-3 minutes before the test.

L0D CE Lumens
Primary ~13
Low ~5-6
High ~40

I think all of these measurements are about 10% low because my P1D CE appears to be an overachiever. Mine measures at least 10% higher Lux @ 1 meter than the one tested by Doug at flashlightreviews.com (3000 vs 2700 on high, 1600 vs 1400 on primary). The crude total output tests I've done so far comparing it to my other lights vs FR and other tests seem to confirm the total output is also 10% higher. L0D CE on high reads within a few per cent of my SL PP 4AA Luxeon that I picked from 6 that I bought as gifts and looks to be 40-44 lumens although the SL absolutely kills it on throw.

I also have an L0P SE but comparisons to that are pretty worthless as it only puts out about 60% (throw and output) of what FR got. I've been trying to get 4sevens to replace it for a month now but he still hasn't responded on that or to my request over 2 weeks ago for a new body for my P1D CE with VERY loose threads.

A few other impressions. Threads seem very tight and it looks like it will work reliably with one hand which is a first for me on a Fenix twistie.

I never liked my L0P SE. Not only was it much dimmer than others tested but the overall beam diameter was so large that the spill intensity was VERY low and basically worthless on Primary and low. The L0D CE has a MUCH smaller total beam diameter and the spill is MUCH brighter and looks very useful even on the lower settings. The beam is very similar to my P1D CE, relatively speaking although the hot spot seems a more diffuse and less intense with a larger portion of the output in the spill. First impression is that even the low on my L0D CE will be FAR more useful than primary on my L0D SE. Same thing for the medium vs high comparison. Heck the low on the L0D CE looks fairly usable compared to high on my L0P SE...

PWM rate on primary/low is 100 Hz which is the same as my L0P SE. Strobe rate is 8 HZ, same as P1D CE. Measured with an optical tachometer I use for checking rotor speed on r/c helis.

Mine seems to have a bit more beam artifacts than UnkownVT's beam shots but I'm not a white wall hunter and I doubt it will bother me in actual use. My P1D CE doesn't.

I'll try to measure Lux @ 1 meter later and might do a run time on primary to get a look at the regulation which I expect to be far from flat even on NiMH.

Overall, definitely a keeper and it looks like it will kick my Nichia modded gen 2 Dorcy AAA out of my pocket. that's something my L0P SE couldn't do. Hopefully 4sevens will eventually do something about my L0P SE and I can sell it at a loss. Otherwise I'll try modding it with an SSC P4 either making it useful or putting it out of its' misery...

Mike


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## nightstalker101 (Jan 30, 2007)

The listed current draws are:

Current draw -
10440 Open-Circuit voltage = 4.03V
Medium = 0.38A
Low = 0.17A
High = 1.11A

When useing the Ultrafire AAA lithium ion battery, whouldn't the current draw be 2.22C (Isn't this pushing it?)


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## paulr (Jan 30, 2007)

(Note: this has turned into a mini-review but I'll leave it here for now instead of posting a separate review thread, since lots of people are getting these lights and having too many separate review threads probably isn't good).

Mine just arrived. It's sure bright for such a tiny light, and that's with an Eneloop NiMH cell that I haven't even charged! (They come pre-charged in the package). Informal ceiling bounce test makes me estimate it puts about about 1.5x as many total lumens as my stock L1p. The hotspot is larger and less intense than the L1p's so the L1p will have more throw. The L0D-CE hotspot seems to darken slightly in the center, no big deal. Its spill beam is much brighter than the L1p, which I like. After about 1.5 minutes on "high" it was noticably warm in my hand, but certainly not uncomfortably so.

It came with a pocket clip, a small split ring (not pre-attached to the light), and a spare O-ring. It did NOT come with a lobster claw clip--maybe some people got lucky and received those. It wasn't advertised as coming with one so no problem, it woulda been nice though. The "head" section is about 3 cm long, i.e. the seam between the head and body is almost in the middle of the light, unlike (say) the Arc AAA whose head is way at the front. This has an interesting consequence, that the pocket clip pretty much has to attach to the head section rather than the body section, and that means if the light is clipped to a ballcap, the clip immobilizes the head and so you have to somewhat awkwardly reach back to the tail section to turn the light on and off. Not a really big deal, but overall, the pocket clip is sort of an afterthought, it looks weird on the light (shiny against black), and it bangs into the little hex bumps when you turn the bezel. I put it on the light at first but have now removed it. It's conceivable that I'll put it back later, but it's somewhat more awkward than the clip on an Arc. 

The split ring also wasn't attached to the light when it arrived (it was in a tiny ziploc bag along with the pocket clip and spare o-ring). I had to put it on myself, a somewhat awkward operation without a split ring pliers (I used a SAK pliers and a small screwdriver). It would be nice if they did this at the factory.

The UI is fairly ok for a light this small. I don't see much need for multiple levels in bigger lights but for an EDC like this, being able to control the intensity-runtime tradeoff is worthwhile. I could do without the blinking and SOS modes. The PWM flickering is very noticable when you move the light around, or sort of subliminably noticable in normal use--if you look at the light (not straight into it of course) it seems to shimmer a bit. It also acts like a strobe if something is moving while you're illuminating it, which is weird. Obviously I'd prefer that they use reduced current instead of PWM both to eliminate the flicker and to run the LED and battery more efficiently, but I can understand if there's technical obstacles to getting P1D-like circuitry into the L0D's smaller space. The strobe effect was noticable when I stood the light in candle mode in the bathroom and took a shower, and later used the light to get up in the middle of the night for a glass of water. The strobing froze the water as it was coming out of the shower and faucet. It's a "digital" way of looking at things that I'd rather not get used to. The saying goes: all the world's an analog stage, and digital circuits only play bit parts.

My unit just says L0D (not CE) on the light and the package is an L0D package that has a sticker on it saying it's a CE. I dunno if they'll update the engraving later. I can tell it's not a Luxeon by looking at the small square LED die. The build quality is about like my L1p, i.e. no obvious loose threads or outside finish probs, but not at the level of something like an HDS. There are some machining marks inside the battery tube and like the L1p, the switch is just a center spot and contact ring on a PCB, a little bit cheesy especially for a high-current light like this. But given how many L1p's are out there operating ok, I guess it's functional at least in the near term. Actually I wonder whether those contacts are more subject to wear because of the twist switch than the L1p (where you make and break that contact only on changing the battery, and rely on the clickie for turning the light on and off).

Overall length is just a mm or two longer than the Arc AAA (including the keychain lug), and a tad shorter than the Peak Matterhorn 3-led, so the length is fine. It is noticably thicker than those two other lights though. I haven't yet compared the weights. IMO it's largish but not unacceptably so for use on a keychain (I'd say the same thing of even the Arc, and currently have a pair of coin lights on my keychain). The extra thickness for the battery tube seems unneeded (the hex flats could instead have been a round tube of smaller diameter). On the other hand since the light is black and is so small, it's easy to misplace, something I for some reason didn't find as much of an issue with the Arc. Since there's extra metal in it maybe there's someplace to mill a slot for a tritium marker. That would make the light much easier to find in the dark. I hope they offer it in natural finish and even in silver color (if possible) soon.

The Arc AA-style tailstand thing works ok, though the little cutout where the split ring nestles so you can stand it flat has a sharp corner that can catch the inside of your pocket or even nick your finger. I don't want to whack it with a file because that would cut through the HA finish. Maybe they could round off that corner a little before they apply the HA coating.

This Li10440 stuff scares me a bit, it sounds like the light is basically running direct drive and the cell is putting out way more than the LED's Vf, the LED is overdriven outside of spec and the cell itself is unprotected and delivering current at around 2.5C. The overdrive even applies for low and medium brightness modes, i.e. the LED is getting slammed with that high current during the "on" parts of the PWM cycle. All in all I'd treat the 10440-L0D CE combination as a minuature USL, i.e. an impressive but potentially dangerous gadget intended more for exhibitions than for normal use as a flashlight.

Potential buyers: I want to emphasize that this is a great little light, all the things I'm complaining about are just quibbles. No matter how good something is, there are always ways to make it better, and part of flashaholism is the never-ending search for such improvements.


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## paulr (Jan 30, 2007)

double post due to server probs removed.


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## luigi (Jan 30, 2007)

UnknownVT: Thanks for the review and the pictures!
Great job!

Do you have runtimes with the 10440 in high / low modes and compared to a lithium AAA ?

Luigi


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## Glen C (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks Unknown, very informative. May I ask how far from the wall were the lights in the beamshots? Thanks


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## hurld (Jan 30, 2007)

Thanks for all the reviews, this sounds like an awesome little flame thrower. Mine was just shipped today, now the dreaded WAIT! I also ordered some 10440 batts with a charger, are these really safe to use in this light? And if I run them till the light dims will this still be at a safe level (2.75 v ?)for the unregulated 10440's or because this light was desighed for 1.5v batts will it dim at about 1 volt and trash my 10440's ? Thanks Doug


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## Doug S (Jan 30, 2007)

The last scenario: *because this light was desighed for 1.5v batts will it dim at about 1 volt and trash my 10440's * 

I have never quite understood which part of ''do not discharge Li-ion cells below 2.5V'' people have trouble understanding. 
While it would be technically feasible to design a driver circuit to recognize whether it was being driven by an alkaline vs a Li-ion and behave accordingly, I am confident that this particular light is not so designed.



hurld said:


> Thanks for all the reviews, this sounds like an awesome little flame thrower. Mine was just shipped today, now the dreaded WAIT! I also ordered some 10440 batts with a charger, are these really safe to use in this light? And if I run them till the light dims will this still be at a safe level (2.75 v ?)for the unregulated 10440's or because this light was desighed for 1.5v batts will it dim at about 1 volt and trash my 10440's ? Thanks Doug


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## paulr (Jan 30, 2007)

The HDS EDC lights figure out what battery type you're using through voltage measurements, and they also have temperature sensors. They're also pretty expensive compared with these Fenixes, and quite a bit bigger. 

I'm very reluctant to use 14500 or 10440 li cells in anything or have them around the house, just because of the likelihood (murphy's law) that if I have any of those cells, someone (maybe me) will eventually put them into a device (like a digicam) that expects ordinary AA's or AAA's and is destroyed by the higher voltage. The L0D-CE/10440 combo sounds like quite a dazzle bomb but maybe they could choose a different cell type.


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## UnknownVT (Jan 30, 2007)

*UnknownVT* wrote: _"Current draw -_
_10440 Open-Circuit voltage = 4.03V_
_Medium = 0.38A_
_Low = 0.17A_
_High = 1.11A"_


From current draw above - 
if we can assume the light is in direct-drive with 3.7V Li-Ion 10440 -
that's 4.03V (or perhaps 3.7V under load) at 1.11A ....

Now look at the Cree Specs - 
_EDIT - this is the latest Cree Spec_ - thanks to WildChild in another thread for bringing this to my attention - 
NOTE: the *retroactive* Max DC forward Current -







The Maximum spec'd forward current is supposed to be 1,000mA (latest specs) -
this means the Cree XR-E LED is over-driven beyond its specs on a 10440 Li-Ion by at least 10%. 
This is not good news - and I probably would not suggest using 10440 in the L0D-CE regularly.

My guess to why this sample may be drawing such high current could be the LED has a particularly low Vf? and may be that's why it's so bright?


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## gadgetnerd (Jan 31, 2007)

The literature with the light states a max input voltage of 3.3V, so I guess you're taking chances with a 3.7V (>4V off charger) Li-Ion. I'm not gonna bother, it's plenty bright with a 1.2V NiMH and very bright with a 1.7V Lithium.


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## UnknownVT (Jan 31, 2007)

*gadgetnerd* wrote: _"The literature with the light states a max input voltage of 3.3V"_

You're right -





so the 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 exceeds the input voltage range of the instruction sheet - therefore its use is probably not recommended by Fenix.

My current draw of 1.11A on High also means that it exceeds the maxumum DC forward current of the Cree spec by 11% - 
so another reason why the 10440 probably should not be used on any regular basis.


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## Robocop (Jan 31, 2007)

I am curious about these AAA Li-Ion 4.2v rechargeables used in this light as I have 4 of these batteries. I wonder if anyone will ever offer a true 3 volt AAA rechargeable such as has been done with the ever popular 123 size 3 volt rechargeables. I am not even sure if it is possible or even practical to make a 3 volt rechargeable AAA however if it can be done with the Li-Ion 123 then could it not be done with any other size Li-Ion?

It seems as if this would almost be the perfect match for this new light however unless it were in high demand I honestly do not think any maker will try to offer such a battery.......Regardless this is a very interesting thread and really shows how far our hobby has come. Can you imaging this light being shown here 2 years past....we would all be crazy trying to gobble all of them up......as if we are not doing that already....hehe

As always nice review and thanks for all the hard work on your review.


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## Xygen (Jan 31, 2007)

Robocop said:


> I wonder if anyone will ever offer a true 3 volt AAA rechargeable such as has been done with the ever popular 123 size 3 volt rechargeables.


I don't think there will be a high demand, because there are no primary 3.0V AAA's which it can replace.
But I'm looking forward for my LOD-CE. I like it to have a low output, because most of my other lights are just too bright for some tasks.
Thanks for the review Vincent! :goodjob:


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## Robocop (Jan 31, 2007)

Xygen you are probably correct on that however it would be perfect it seems for the circuitry and limitations of this light......maybe using this same design on a 2 AAA body would hit that "sweet spot" so to speak. I am also looking forward to my LOD-CE however I am trying to hold out until the natural color is available....I have had much better results with the finish holding up on the natural versions. I am giving it a week and then if not available the stress of waiting will win me over...hehe


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## Flying Turtle (Jan 31, 2007)

I'm still a little bothered that the low will not be low enough. Not a big drawback, though. Not sure if I can wait for the competition to come through.

Geoff


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## paulr (Jan 31, 2007)

The low of this light is fine from the point of view of being too powerful to use at night. You can always put your finger over the bezel to dim it too. What I'd really like is a low with about the same lumen output but with a wide, no-hot-spot flood beam. That would require a different setup, like the Surefire A2 having an incan bulb for throw and three 5mm leds for flood. I guess a 1aaa light is too small for anything like that but it would be great if Fenix made an A2-like version of the L2P, with a 30mm turbohead and Cree for throw, and three 5mm or 3mm leds for close-up low powered flood.

For battery runtime I think they could make the L0P CE low power lower. Right now they have 10-20-40 lumens or thereabouts, a 2x increase at each increment. I'd make it 2.5-10-40 for a 4x increase at each increment. I'd also get rid of the strobe or else slow it down a bit. Its current speed and duty cycle is near useless, it's like the light is on but flickering. And I'd either get rid of the SOS or decrease its brightness so that it can run at least an entire night on a cell.


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## cdosrun (Jan 31, 2007)

I think the problem with making the light any dimmer is in Fenix's choice of PWM frequency. At 100Hz, it is too low to dim the light any more than they do without creating even more visible flicker. Obviously, the larger the difference between maximum and minimum output on a purely PWM controlled light, the more noticeable the flicker in the low modes.

To make a really usable low, I think some sort of current control is required, possibly combined with a bit of PWM to retain colour tint (like the HDS?).

As for the strobe; I don't know about the L0D-CE, but on my P1D-CE it is quite disorientating, try walking towards it in complete darkness (it may just be me) it could be that was the intention rather than as a warning strobe.

Andrew


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## Moat (Jan 31, 2007)

Just a wild guess/thought on my part (and maybe DougS or Newbie would care to comment) - it seems like the simple addition of a small cap somewhere on the driver's output would smooth the transients of the PWM's pulse, and lessen/eliminate the "flicker effect" in the low modes...?? 

Hmmm... I smell a mod...


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## cdosrun (Jan 31, 2007)

Irrelevant. Doug posted below.

Andrew


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## Doug S (Jan 31, 2007)

I haven't specifically looked at this particular light's circuit but it should be possible with the addition of one capacitor and one diode. While this would cost about 8-10% in electrical I/O efficiency this would be more than offset by the electrical to light efficiency gain on low and medium. You would be stuck with that 8-10% loss on high. Unfortunately, if the frequency is low enough that it bothers some people, the required capacitor value would need to be very large and thus preclude this as a viable mod.



Moat said:


> Just a wild guess/thought on my part (and maybe DougS or Newbie would care to comment) - it seems like the simple addition of a small cap somewhere on the driver's output would smooth the transients of the PWM's pulse, and lessen/eliminate the "flicker effect" in the low modes...??
> 
> Hmmm... I smell a mod...


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## UnknownVT (Jan 31, 2007)

*Part 3* - "Practical" *Stairway* beamshots -

Please see "Practical" Beamshots? for a repository of standardized beamshots which are directly comparable.








The NiMH appears to be brighter than the plain alkaline - I think this stands to reason - the alkaline is not fresh out of the package - but the one used for the beamshots (only a few minutes) but it probably is just over its initial peak high.
NiMH basically can deliver higher currents for more sustained periods - hence its better brightness despite having a lower open-circuit voltage.







on 3.7V Li-Ion rechargeable 10440 (_*NOT*_ recommended for regular use) -compared to the fabulous P1D-CE I thnk we may have a new stairway champ?

Notice that the P1D-CE has a noticably more concentrated/brighter hotspot - so it will definitely out-throw the L0D-CE. The L0D-CE has a much smaller reflector - which spreads its light out more - hence brighter side-spill making it better for the stairway shot.


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## paulr (Jan 31, 2007)

I'm confused, I thought the p1d-ce used current reduction (not pwm) for dimming. I figured it did that by adding a capacitor to integrate the pwm pulses, something that wouldn't fit in the smaller L0D. 

Nice stair shots, vt.


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## Lite_me (Jan 31, 2007)

Robocop said:


> Xygen you are probably correct on that however it would be perfect it seems for the circuitry and limitations of this light......maybe using this same design on a 2 AAA body would hit that "sweet spot" so to speak.* I am also looking forward to my LOD-CE however I am trying to hold out until the natural color is available....*I have had much better results with the finish holding up on the natural versions. *I am giving it a week* and then if not available the stress of waiting will win me over...hehe


Robocop: Are you just waiting for them to show up on the (Fenix-Store) web site? I contacted 4sevens about the possible availability of Natural finish L0P CE's and this is what he had to say.... this was on Tue. Jan 30th....

Dennis,

I would not hold your breath. Fenix is building their own finishing plant to do all their
finishes and until then they will not be releasing new natural lights. My guess is 
late February at the earliest - if they do it at all.

Regards,
David

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I ordered some Black ones.


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## Lite_me (Jan 31, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> *Part 3* - "Practical" *Stairway* beamshots -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This is _*insane*_ out of a single AAA light. Even at 3.7v. 
I'm just thinking back when I used to carry a Solitaire around. How things have changed!


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## Glen C (Jan 31, 2007)

Unknown, thanks for the stair shots. Your reviews have tipped me over the edge and I have bought one


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## paulr (Jan 31, 2007)

After having it just over 24 hours I'm insanely pleased with this little marvel. It's a real technical breakthrough, even more than the L1p was. The small incandescent flashlight is now an obsolete device except for cost reasons, and even those will probably diminish pretty soon. 

I ordered the L0D/CE because I had temporarily lost my L1p (now found) and needed a replacement and thought I'd try an AAA model as a change of pace. But I think it obsoletes the L1p and I don't feel much need for an L1D-CE. I think Fenix's next light should be a long-throw "turbohead" version of the L2p, using a Cree emitter and a 30mm or so reflector, with an interchangeable body tube to run on 1AA at reduced max lumens if necessary. The turbohead L2p won't need multiple modes or brightnesses since that's what the L0D-CE is for. If it's to have a dim mode at all, it should use three wideangle 5mm or 3mm leds separate from the high power emitter, like a Surefire A2.

4x7, if you're reading this, can you cancel my still-pending (and unpaid) L0D order, #9453? That's the one I entered incorrectly for snail mail payment. I later entered a 2nd order with Paypal which has been fulfilled and that's the light I'm using now.


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## EsthetiX (Jan 31, 2007)

Lite_me said:


> This is _*insane*_ out of a single AAA light. Even at 3.7v.
> I'm just thinking back when I used to carry a Solitaire around. How things have changed!



I happen to know several people who still carry solitaires around lol


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## ernsanada (Jan 31, 2007)

EsthetiX said:


> I happen to know several people who still carry solitaires around lol



You need to flash the LOD CE at them and convert them over to the "Shiny Side!".


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## EsthetiX (Feb 1, 2007)

ernsanada said:


> You need to flash the LOD CE at them and convert them over to the "Shiny Side!".




...dont have one yet


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## BobbyRS (Feb 1, 2007)

Hey don't slam the solitaires. I actually still have one. Of course my sons like to play with it though. I thought about swapping the bulb out for a led upgrade, but just can't seem to pull the trigger on the costs. I would rather use that money for something new.  

UnkownVT, again great job on the information and pics. You are making it incredibly hard for me to resist the L0D CE. I have a Millermod L0P 3-Stage, I am still wondering if the L0D CE is still really worth the money for me to upgrade to.....


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## UnknownVT (Feb 1, 2007)

*Part 4* - L0D-CE on primary *alkaline* AAA vs. Fenix P1D-CE on primary *lithium* CR123A - 

not exactly a fair fight... but hey -
*Stingray* wrote: _"How does the LOD-CE compare to the PID-CE with both on primaries"_
patients(sic) is a virtue - or just people detained in hospital?

L0D-CE on alkaline vs. Fenix P1D-CE on primary CR123A 
both on *Medium*







like I said not a fair fight - obviously the P1D-CE is brighter......

L0D-CE on alkaline vs. Fenix P1D-CE on primary CR123A 
both on *High*







as above.....

So is the Medium of the P1D-CE as bright as the high on the L0D-CE?
L0D-CE on alkaline *High* vs. Fenix P1D-CE on primary CR123A *Medium* -







in a word yes - the P1D-CE on Medium is brighter than the L0D-CE on high... but this is still crazy/amazing - 
the L0D-CE is a single AAA alkaline powered light.

Notice the beam quality of the L0D-CE compared to the P1D-CE.


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## Mike abcd (Feb 1, 2007)

I've done a couple of run time tests on high on the L0D CE using Maha Powerex 1000 mAH with two different batteries.

Both were fully charged on a BC-900, left on the charger for 1-2 hours after the fast charge completed and tested within 15 minutes after being removed. Unloaded initial voltage on both was 1.47 V.

Both tests gave ~66 minutes to 50%. Output dropped to about 85% in the first 8 minutes and then ran pretty flat until it started to roll off more quickly a little before the 1 hour mark. 

Rough measurements; 81% at 40 minutes, 79% at 50 minutes. 77% at 55 minutes, 74% at 60 minutes, 50% at 66 minutes.

Since over discharging a *single *NiMH cell has very little effect on it, I kept it running in one test and found that the level started dropping a little more slowly after it hit ~30% at ~70 minutes. At 75 minutes, it was down to ~11 %. At that point, I switched it to the low setting and output dropped to ~5% of the initial high reading. At about 85 minutes it was at ~3%. At that point I took it and walked around my dark house for about 5 minutes. It was pretty dim but still enough to find your way around in doors and slightly brighter when switched to medium or high.

I got around 380 lux @ 1 meter initially but that's only a rough reading. It might be higher and I plan to check it again being a lot more careful with measuring the distance and alignment than I was in the 2 run time tests.

Based on these run times on high and some rough output measurements on all 3 levels I posted, I'd guess 3 hours on medium and 6 hours on low would be fairly safe bets.

Overall I'm impressed by both the L0D CE run times and the Maha Powerex 1000 mA AAA batteries.

Mike


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## paulr (Feb 1, 2007)

Mike, I'd be interested in alkaline and L92 lithium primary tests if you have some of those cells around. Or I guess I could send you some, or donate a few bucks towards your buying some.

My own informal test with an Eneloop AAA (mfgr date 8/2006, "800 mAH"): played with the light for some indeterminate amount of time, then ran it on "high" til it was noticably dim (about 30 minutes). Then turned off the light and let it rest a little, but it was still pretty dim on all settings and got dimmer rather quickly, i.e. no long "tail" or extended operation at low power, a little bit disappointing but ok. I then put the cell on my BC900 charger (measured initial voltage: 0.86V) and it accepted 850 mAH of charge which means the cell capacity is probably closer to 700-750 mAH. Still pretty good, and the low self-discharge claim seems to be true, I probably got at least 45 minutes of "high" runtime from the 8/2006 dated cell straight from the package without my charging it up first. 

I have some Titanium "1000 mAH" that I think I measured at 900 mAH while back, pretty impressive, so maybe I will switch to those (self-discharge not an issue since I expect to use this light a lot). I also have some Soshine "900 mAH" which tested at around 600 mAH, heh.


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## Moat (Feb 1, 2007)

Doug S said:


> You would be stuck with that 8-10% loss on high.



Thanks, Doug. Probably not worth the 8-10% "hit", then.

My thoughts (probably erronous, for a variety of reasons!) were based on what I percieve as a "slow" (non-instantaneous) ramp-up/down of brightness, when switching on/off various 1AAA lights I own (Dorcy, ARC, Gerber), and thought it may have to do with a stored charge in the SMT caps used in those circuits (IIRC - a SMT cap soldered directly across the cathode/anode legs of the ARC's LED, for example). I might just be percieving the resistive "ramp" of the mechanical switch itself, tho - vs. the "choppier" PWM switching of, say, a LOD-CE. Or a chemical hesitation in the batteries' current delivery. Or...?

Excellent review, Vincent - makes it difficult to resist picking up one of these little dazzlers, and tinkering myself! Sorry if I dragged the thread a bit off-topic.


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## paulr (Feb 1, 2007)

I'm not sure why an 8-10% hit would be needed -- does the P1D CE have an 8-10% hit? I'm presuming that the converter has a power mosfet output stage. There should not be a diode involved. Just monitor the total amount of charge going into the capacitor.


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## Doug S (Feb 1, 2007)

paulr: depending on what the stock output stage looks like, you may be correct.



paulr said:


> I'm not sure why an 8-10% hit would be needed -- does the P1D CE have an 8-10% hit? I'm presuming that the converter has a power mosfet output stage. There should not be a diode involved. Just monitor the total amount of charge going into the capacitor.


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## Doug S (Feb 1, 2007)

.


Moat said:


> I might just be percieving the resistive "ramp" of the mechanical switch itself, tho - vs. the "choppier" PWM switching of, say, a LOD-CE. Or a chemical hesitation in the batteries' current delivery. Or...?


One way to sort this out is to tie it to the end of a couple of feet of string and have an assistant twill it at a fast rate in a dark room. It should be more evident whether the PWM is a sharp on/off or not.


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## Mike abcd (Feb 1, 2007)

paulr said:


> I'd be interested in alkaline and L92 lithium primary tests if you have some of those cells around. Or I guess I could send you some, or donate a few bucks towards your buying some.
> ...



If I get a chance, I'll waste an Alkaline for you  I don't expect it to be pretty on high though... Just be warned I only have some energizers that have been in the fridge for 2 years or more or some "off labels" I got from Advanced Auto at 24 for $4.88 that seem fine where I use them(remote controls, etc) but I've never tried to test.

I've never tried a Lithium "1.5 V" primary and am unlikely to although I've been tempted to throw a set in my SL PP 4AA Lux for emergency use only. For the EDC use the L0D CE will see, the higher capacity NiMH AAA will work well for me. I top them off a few times and then cycle them to avoid "memory effects" and always leave the house with a battery close to or fully charged.

Mike


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## UnknownVT (Feb 1, 2007)

*paulr* wrote: _"My own informal test with an Eneloop AAA (mfgr date 8/2006, "800 mAH"): i.e. no long "tail" or extended operation at low power, a little bit disappointing but ok. "_

I think this is pretty typical of NiMH discharge - 
they seem to be able to dump their power/current close to the peak until depleted (similar to lithium battery behavior)

*paulr* wrote: _"I have some Titanium "1000 mAH" that I think I measured at 900 mAH while back, pretty impressive, so maybe I will switch to those (self-discharge not an issue since I expect to use this light a lot). I also have some Soshine "900 mAH" which tested at around 600 mAH, heh."_

WalMart has some "off-brand" *Sakar* *1000mAh* NiMH rechargeable AAA @ $4.95 for a pack of 4 - might be worth checking out since they are so inexpensive.

They also have the Ray-O-Vac Hybrid (low self-discharge) *AA* (2100mAh) and *AAA* (800mAh) both @ $8.95 for 4-pack.


----------



## paulr (Feb 1, 2007)

The Soshines were somehting like $3.99 for 4 from Emilion and I expected them to be way below their specification and sure enough I wasn't disappointed. I'm still using them in my mp3 player and they're fine for that, I just have to charge them a little more often than I'd have to charge higher capacity cells, no big deal. The nicest thing about them is they came in a plastic snap case like the larger cases that Thomas Distributing sells/gives away for four AA cells. Somehow it's harder to find cases like that for AAA's. Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced the one I got with those Soshine cells. It's around the house someplace (I think) so hopefully it will turn up.

Mike_abcd, I bought a 4-pack of L92 AAA lithium primaries a while back and have used one of them, leaving three, of which I think I'd like to hold onto two (one as a backup for the L0D and one for hmm, maybe backup for the backup--originally I'd thought to put it in my Peak Matterhorn 3-led but now I'm realizing that light is pretty much obsoleted by the L0D-CE). So I'm happy to send you the remaining one if you want to test it. These have an initial voltage of about 1.7V so I'd be interested to see if they start out brighter than the NiMH cells and if they stay that way. 

(further) Hmm, it would really be best if you could test an L92 on "high" to exhaustion and test another at various settings. I guess I could send two of my remaining three, or just donate towards your buying a pack. They're $8.99 per 4-pack at batteryspecialists.com including shipping.


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## paulr (Feb 1, 2007)

Close-up of LED die from my L0D-CE:


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## ratbert42 (Feb 4, 2007)

BobbyRS said:


> Hey don't slam the solitaires. I actually still have one.



I use mine to carry a spare AAA for my Arc AAA-P.


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## thezman (Feb 4, 2007)

What's the SOS speed and interval on this light. Is it slow and drawn out like on the P1DCE.


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## thezman (Feb 5, 2007)

I thought this was a 5 level light, but you only mentioned 3 of them in this review.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 5, 2007)

*thezman *wrote:* "*_I thought this was a 5 level light, but you only mentioned 3 of them in this review.




"_

Please read the instruction sheet in post #*29* (link).

The 5 modes are Medium(default), Low, High, Strobe, SOS -
I have photographed and measured current draw for Medium, Low and High -

I would be very grateful for _YOUR_ advice on how to still photograph, and take current draw readings (with a simple DMM) for the strobe and SOS modes



.


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## BrightGal (Feb 5, 2007)

thezman said:


> I thought this was a 5 level light, but you only mentioned 3 of them in this review.



How rude!


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## paulr (Feb 5, 2007)

The L0D CE SOS has a pretty long pause between SOS groups but I think that's logical given how small the battery is, and given that it uses full brightness to send the pulses. It has to keep the overall duty cycle low enough that it can keep sending SOS all night long (say 8 hours) on one battery, so it can attract tramp steamers to your rescue while you sleep next to your beached shipwreck.


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## thezman (Feb 5, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> *thezman *wrote:* "*_I thought this was a 5 level light, but you only mentioned 3 of them in this review.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I never asked you to do that. I asked about the interval on the SOS mode.(post #61)
It seems the interval on the SOS mode on the P1DCE was too long and I wanted to know if this light had the same spacing.
Post #62 was just a playful jab to get your attention.  

The instruction sheet on page 29 does not mention the SOS interval time.

And thank you paulr for answering my simple question.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 5, 2007)

*thezman* wrote: _"I never asked you to do that. I asked about the interval on the SOS mode.(post #61)_
_Post #62 was just a playful jab to get your attention.



_

_The instruction sheet on page 29 does not mention the SOS interval time."_

I saw your Post #*62* as a separate post to your post #*61* - 
I was replying to your post #*62* which had _NOTHING_ referencing the SOS question - and quoted your post #*62* to be clear.

- one can easily edit any of one's own posts to add comments/addendums so that they are obviously related. 

Unless there is a quote or some reference - 
I can't tell (or assume) a separate post is related.


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## BrightGal (Feb 5, 2007)

thezman said:


> Post #62 was just a playful jab to get your attention.



How weasel like!


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## thezman (Feb 5, 2007)

Well I'm just going to have to add more of these     to my posts.

I was on a quest for information that wasn't included on the review and meant no ill will towards anyone.


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## BrightGal (Feb 5, 2007)

thezman said:


> Well I'm just going to have to add more of these     to my posts.
> 
> I was on a quest for information that wasn't included on the review and meant no ill will towards anyone.



Thanks thezman; that's what we wanted to hear.


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## paulr (Feb 5, 2007)

The SOS mode of the L0D CE uses high power, as can be seen by shaking the light up and down in SOS mode and not seeing multiple images from the PWM. The strobe mode is sort of similar, flashing on and off at maybe 30% duty cycle(?). The strobe pulses are way too long to freeze action like a real strobe light. The PWM modes actually do a lot better for that.


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## Ralls (Feb 5, 2007)

I just got my L0D-CE today in the mail and it is totally awesome--I can't stop playing with it! I'm using Rayovac Hybrid rechargeables, so therefore I can play with it as much as I want and not feel guilty!:laughing: 

I'm very impressed with this little light. The machining and the hard anodize are both very good. I love the split ring design that allows it to stand on its tail. The user interface is super easy to use and it works well using it one-handed. Fenix definitely has a winner on their hands. I like this light much better than the Arc AAA-P that I use to own (not saying the Arc is a bad light) and they are both about the same price. 

Thank you UnknownVT for the excellent review, you did indeed push me over the edge. Thanks to 4sevens as well for excellent service. I am now anxiously awaiting my L1D-CE.


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## Flying Turtle (Feb 6, 2007)

Has anyone compared the real world throw of this little giant on high level to any other lights of similar output? Of course you have. I'm trying to imagine how well it will work in my backyard. Does it have more punch that a Civictor (probably) or a 3AA MiniMag for example? Thanks.

Geoff


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## paulr (Feb 6, 2007)

As I remember the Civictor is pretty similar to the L1p, or just a little bit dimmer. I compared the L0D CE with my L1p and I'd say the lumen outputs were pretty similar but the L1P having a tighter beam and therefore more throw. The difference is not gigantic though. The L0D CE certainly beats the pants off the 1 watt Luxeons that were highly sought after a couple of years ago.

I will say that the L0D CE's throw is pretty much stomped by the PT Tec 40, a 4AA halogen light with a mid-sized reflector that's probably about 20 times the size of the L0D CE. Again the Tec 40 doesn't vastly outclass the L0D's lumen output, but it's beam is much more controlled by the big reflector.

I think the L0D's beam is just fine. Even in my well-lit urban neighborhood it easily makes a visible lit-up area on a building across the street, something a 5mm led has no hope of doing. It is probably enough to make out a house number from the curb in the suburbs on a dark night, maybe one of the more common situations that calls for a small light with a lot of throw. If I were delivering pizzas and had to do this all the time though, I'd bring a bigger light.


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## LEDninja (Feb 6, 2007)

Got my L0D CE today. I was initially quite impressed but a little less so after it got dark.

Beam:
Mine has a very wide hotspot about double the width of my L1P. Wider than my L0P SE. Wider than a SMJLED/Gelbrite with a faceted reflector. One of the reasons I got the L0D CE was for the brighter spill but the wide hotspot makes me less reliant on the spill.
The spill is not as even as I hoped. It feels brighter towards the edges and dimmer towards the center just outside the hotspot. The transition is fairly smooth and the dimmer center is mild - not a strong dark ring like my Fenix E1. Not noticable unless I am 'white wall hunting' but all the walls in my flat have off white walls. Thought it was an optical illusion at first, but when I tilt the light at close range I can move the dark area outside the hotspot.
Overall the beam pattern is not bad. I guess I got spoiled by the near perfect beam pattern of my L1P/L0P SE/Gelbrite/My Little Friend.

Brightness:
On the same setting, all levels are clearly brighter than my L0P SE. It is hard to compare different levels - L0D CE medium to L0P SE high - the hotspot of the L0P SE is brighter but the spill of the L0D CE is brighter. Ditto L0D CE against my L1P.
I felt my L0P SE a little dim on the default setting, wanted a brighter light and the L0D CE delivers.

Tint:
Not as yellow as my L1P/L0P SE but not the blue white of non Luxeon LEDs. Only slightly cooler than my My Little Friend (TWOJ)*** so I guess 'XO' tint. I think Cree calls it 'WD'.

Other things:
I found out the hard waythe L0P SE low is too bright for discreet reading of menus in restautants and programmes at concerts. The L0D CE will be worse.
Strobe is annoying.
SOS is too slow.

The L0D CE will be my goto EDC (not in my pocket yet, still playing with it).
The L0P SE will be backup on my backup keychain.
The UK 2AAA eLED is my main keychain tag. It is easier to reach for it than to fumble for my keys. And it is my last resort all night light.

*** Wayne let it slip he had TWOJ at the beginning of last year and TXOJ toward the end of the year. So I guess I got TWOJ in my MLF and recent purchasers got TXOJ. That is why manufacturers never commit to any bin - they never know what they will get next.


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## WildChild (Feb 6, 2007)

UnknownVT, do you have a standard L0D to take measurement of the current on all levels with 10440? After some reading on Li-Ion cells, a saw a lot that most of them are rated for a 2C maximum discharge current. I contacted AW about the cells I bought from him and he said 600 mA MAX. As with your readings on the L0D-CE, primary and low levels are within the range but the high level is more around 3C/4C which should be way too much. Based on this, the L0D-CE (and probably the L0D too) on 10440 is a primary/low light with high beeing for very short bursts (I would say under 1-2 minutes) and not too often. Can anyone comment more on this?


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## BrightGal (Feb 6, 2007)

I've heard of this 2C Max discharge rate before. But, something puzzles me. When the RAW (from Orb Flashlights) first came out, it was a direct drive and ran on high only; this light must have as high or even a higher discharge rate than the L0D CE on high. Yet, I have never heard of a RAW owner having battery problems.

Where is this Max 2C discharge coming from besides AW?


----------



## paulr (Feb 6, 2007)

The Orb uses an RCR2 which has about 2x the capacity of a 10440, I thought.


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## UnknownVT (Feb 6, 2007)

*WildChild *wrote: _"UnknownVT, do you have a standard L0D to take measurement of the current on all levels with 10440?"_

I do not have a L0D.

But I do have a Fenix L0P-SE Special (link) with LuxIII UWAJ mod

I measured the current with 2 separate 10440's
Open-Circuit = 3.98V and 4.13V - currents were the same -
Medium = 0.38A
Low = 0.17A
High = 1.10A

These readings of my Fenix L0P-SE Special seem basically the same as those of the L0D-CE as in Post #*14* 

*WildChild *wrote: _"After some reading on Li-Ion cells, a saw a lot that most of them are rated for a 2C maximum discharge current. I contacted AW about the cells I bought from him and he said 600 mA MAX. As with your readings on the L0D-CE, primary and low levels are within the range but the high level is more around 3C/4C which should be way too much."_ 

On High this L0P-SE special the current would also seem too much.
The two 10440's I have (on loan) are 320mAh capacity - so the current draw on High is close to 3.4C


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## WildChild (Feb 6, 2007)

BrightGal said:


> I've heard of this 2C Max discharge rate before. But, something puzzles me. When the RAW (from Orb Flashlights) first came out, it was a direct drive and ran on high only; this light must have as high or even a higher discharge rate than the L0D CE on high. Yet, I have never heard of a RAW owner having battery problems.
> 
> Where is this Max 2C discharge coming from besides AW?



It always depend of the cell but 2C seems the average I saw at many places. A 10440 datasheet (powerizer) I found gives a ~700 mA max discharge rate. 

Also, see this post from Newbie:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1258756&postcount=15

[EDIT]
On my L0D with 10440 (I managed to insert the leads of my DMM to measure current):

Open voltage: 3.96V
Capacity: 320mAh

Primary: 0.42A
Low: 0.18A
High: 1.23A (Way over the usual 2C MAX rating of 10440 cells)
[/EDIT]


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## LEDninja (Feb 6, 2007)

BrightGal said:


> When the RAW (from Orb Flashlights) first came out, it was a direct drive and ran on high only; this light must have as high or even a higher discharge rate than the L0D CE on high. Yet, I have never heard of a RAW owner having battery problems.


I do not think so.
UnknownVT measured the current on high at 1110 mA.
If we look at Newbie's voltage vs. current of thr XR-E here
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=138503
Voltage under load is 3.3V
If we substitute a Luxeon K2 for the XRE (blue line instead of red line) we see a current of only 200mA!!! at 3.3V.
Now K2 have a high Vf and the XRE low.
If I assume a LuxIII is half way between a K2 & XRE, at 3.3V I would get 650mA, within the spec.. 
Thus I think we can get away with DD a RAW or L0D but not the L0D CE. The Orb has the additional advantage of using smaller batteries with less oomph which would limit the voltage and current further.

I started a discussion on driving 1.5V lights with li-ons here:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=151662


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## WildChild (Feb 6, 2007)

Take a look at my reply just over yours! I got 1.23A on High with L0D and 10440. Being direct-drive with those cells the Lux 3 is overdriven too! L0D and L0D-CE are Li-Ion flashlights if you want a bright primary mode and brighter low mode. High is more to impress people or very quick uses when a bright light is needed! As I said it also seems that it overdrives the 10440 cell itself too...



LEDninja said:


> I do not think so.
> UnknownVT measured the current on high at 1110 mA.
> If we look at Newbie's voltage vs. current of thr XR-E here
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=138503
> ...


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## BrightGal (Feb 6, 2007)

paulr said:


> The Orb uses an RCR2 which has about 2x the capacity of a 10440, I thought.



The RCR2 and 10440 capacities are pretty close, both arournd 320MaH.


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## BrightGal (Feb 6, 2007)

LEDninja, interesting point about the difference in Vf between the Lux and Cree; but, I don't think it's enough to make a major difference regarding the light's current draw on high with a liIon battery. Both lights will draw more than 2C.

It does offer a plausible explanation why my LOD CE gets hotter much faster than my Lux-based LOD.


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## jashhash (Feb 14, 2007)

Would it be possible to add a small resistor to the 10440 to limit it's draw to around 800 ma?
Also does anyone know how deeply the 10440 would be discharged before the light drops out of regulation?


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## iowatollah (Feb 25, 2007)

Thank you Unknownvt and Paulr for the valuable information on the LOD-CE that should be at my door any day. My friends are becoming budding flashiholice with my Fenix hand me downs with this fast paced technology. Though I know it has been mentioned I have no idea where to buy a 10440 LI-ion? You all know why I need one. Also, does it need a dedicated charger?
Scott


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## al2k (Feb 26, 2007)

iowatollah said:


> ...I have no idea where to buy a 10440 LI-ion? You all know why I need one. Also, does it need a dedicated charger?
> Scott


I bought mine here: AW's 10440 Combo Pack


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## tusenkonstnar (Aug 10, 2007)

How does the Lod-ce compare to the new Arc AAA-P?


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## PocketBeam (Aug 10, 2007)

So, can the 10440 be used in the L0D? Will it just shorten the life of the LED? Or is it only safe for short bursts, i.e. under ten minutes? And I think I saw that you can only use High mode, right?

So, is there another light that can use the 10440?


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## UnknownVT (Aug 10, 2007)

PocketBeam said:


> So, can the 10440 be used in the L0D? Will it just shorten the life of the LED? Or is it only safe for short bursts, i.e. under ten minutes? And I think I saw that you can only use High mode, right?


 
Please take a look at this long thread over in the LED flashlight section -

Anyone kill their L0D-CE with 10440's yet?


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## UnknownVT (Aug 10, 2007)

tusenkonstnar said:


> How does the Lod-ce compare to the new Arc AAA-P?



The Fenix L0Dce is noticeably brighter than the current production ArcAAA-P.

I do not have a direct comparison - 
but the Fenix L0P-SE Special  (Luxeon based) - was a lot brighter than the ArcAAA-P, 
and in turn the L0Dce is a lot brighter than the L0P-SE.

Two sets of comparisons - 

Fenix L0P-SE Special vs. (current production) ArcAAA-P









and from this review -

L0Dce vs. Fenix L0P-SE Special both on High








There are more direct comparison beamshots with the ArcAAA-P in the Fenix L0P-SE Special review at the the medium and low levels.


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## PocketBeam (Aug 10, 2007)

Thanks, Looks like so far no burn outs after continuous usage for at least four charge cycles. And it seems only the Q2 has mode problems where High and one other mode works. I.e. High and Med or High and Low.

That is tempting... I wonder if a premium rebel would do as well.


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## tusenkonstnar (Aug 11, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> The Fenix L0Dce is noticeably brighter than the current production ArcAAA-P.
> 
> I do not have a direct comparison -
> but the Fenix L0P-SE Special  (Luxeon based) - was a lot brighter than the ArcAAA-P,
> ...



Thanks a lot for your input! 
I have ordered an Lop-CE and i own an arc aaa-p (not latest production but an old ne from 2004). I can se that the difference is huge. (the LoP-CE should be somewhere in the same area as the Arc 4+ then I guess). 

/


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## tusenkonstnar (Aug 12, 2007)

A little oftopic, but....
Does the LOD-CE go into som kind of moonmode as the Arc AAA does? Does it step down from the choosen setting when battery hasn't got power enough?


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## UnknownVT (Aug 12, 2007)

tusenkonstnar said:


> A little oftopic, but....
> Does the LOD-CE go into som kind of moonmode as the Arc AAA does? Does it step down from the choosen setting when battery hasn't got power enough?


 
It's not off-topic -

Please take a look at graphs in chevrofreak's

Fenix L0D CE runtimes


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## tusenkonstnar (Aug 17, 2007)

Now I have got the L0D-CE and I'm very satisfied. I have compared it to my Arc 4+ and is a little surprised, I have expected the L0D to give a little more total amount of light [50 Lumens vs 32(?) Lumens] but I can't se any difference at all between them in total output (for example directing the beam towards a white roof in a dark room and se how much it lightens up the room). 

The only difference is that when trying to see something far away the arc4+ has a better spot and lights it up more. Anyway the L0D-CE will be enough in most cases, and it is smaller and has more runtime on the highest level.

Anyone else that has compared them and can comment on the 50 vs 32 lumens? 

BR


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## UnknownVT (Aug 18, 2007)

tusenkonstnar said:


> Anyone else that has compared them and can comment on the 50 vs 32 lumens?


 
That's a 56% increase in brightness - it should be discernable.

For example if you look back at the first/opening post (#*1* link) of this review I have comparisons with the Fenix L0P-SE "Special" - which is rated about 30 lumens on High.

With the L0Dce also on High - the side-by-side comparison beamshots certainly show a noticable difference.

However compare the *Default - Medium* level on the L0Dce (rated at about 20 lumens) with the High on the L0P-SE - there seems to be less discernable difference - yet the difference is also about 50%.

But Arc are normally a bit more "accurate" with their brightness/lumens ratings compared to other manuafctures, who tend to just quote the "potential"/spec'd lumens output at the LED, and not necessarily the actual lumens out from the front of the flashlight.

Bear in mind the L0Dce is running on a humble AAA whereas the Arc 4+ uses Lithium CR123A.


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## tusenkonstnar (Aug 20, 2007)

Any Idea of the throw in L1D-CE compared to Arc4+? 
(I would say that the Throw in my L0D-CE equals the throw in my Arc4+ if i run the arc on level 3-4)


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## UnknownVT (Aug 20, 2007)

tusenkonstnar said:


> Any Idea of the throw in L1D-CE compared to Arc4+?
> (I would say that the Throw in my L0D-CE equals the throw in my Arc4+ if i run the arc on level 3-4)


 
It should be pretty obvious I do not have an Arc4+ , so I would not know:sigh:.

However, I do have a direct comparison between the L1Dce and the L0Dce in this review -

Fenix L1D-CE Comparison Review 

If you want to do more of an apples-to-apples comparison try these 1x CR123A lights (reviews linked) -

Fenix P1ce Special Edition Q2 

Fenix P1D-CE 

Fenix P2Dce 

Fenix P2Dce Special Edition Q2


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