# NiteCore D10 & EX10 Reviews: RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS, COMPARISONS & more!



## selfbuilt (Jul 10, 2008)

_*UPDATE MARCH 26, 2010: *The D10 has been replaced with a new "special edition" that lacks the continuously-variable interface but adds strobe and SOS support. Check out my detailed review of the D10SP for more info._

_*UPDATE Sept 24, 2008: *To see how these Cree Q5 versions stack up against the new Golden Dragon Plus versions, check out that review thread. _

*Warning: Picture and text heavy!*

_*Reviewer's Note: *This is a multi-part review. In Part I of this review, I give an overview of the build characteristics of the D10 and EX10 together, since the circuits are the same, as are most of the general build elements. Detailed comparison reviews of each light to their respective peers are presented in Part II & III (with beamshots, throw/output numbers, runtimes, etc.). In Part IV, I've done a preliminary discussion of both lights. The NiteCore D10 and EX10 were kindly provided for review by EDGETAC and 4sevens of 4sevens.com._

*Part I - Common Build and Features*







The new NiteCore D10 and EX10 were developed by EDGETAC in collaboration with David (4sevens), and build on the original NiteCore Defender Infinity and Extreme designs. These new lights contain a few innovations rarely seen in mass-produced lights - most especially a MCU (microprocessor controller unit) interface with the innovative McGizmo "piston drive" design that doesn't use a clicky switch. Scroll down for a detailed discussion of the features and functions of the lights.






New NiteCore packaging has been revised to a simpler design consistent with other lights in this price point (D10 shown above). Although the "high quality" box label is likely to produce a few chuckles, it is certainly not a misnomer - the lights are very well made. Package contains a manual, warranty case, and extras include a wrist strap and spare o-rings. The wrist strap seems to be of very high quality and is more useful than the tactical hand cord supplied with the original NDI (seems to be made from a similar quality paracord material).

Body design is smaller than most 1xAA and 1xCR123A/RCR lights, since no tail switch is required. Weights and dimensions (length x width) were measured on my samples as follows:
D10: 42.1g, 89.1mm x 20.3mm
EX10: 41.0g, 76.2mm x 21.5mm






Fit and finish is excellent on my samples - lettering is very clear and sharp, and anodizing is flawless (D10 shown above). Note the knurling is more aggressive than any other Chinese-made light I've seen. This is the first time it really feels like actual knurling (not as severe as Surefire lights, though).






The EX10 (shown above) comes with a stainless steel bezel retaining ring. Since this protrudes a little further than the D10 opening, overall spillbeam width is slightly reduced on the EX10. Beam patterns are otherwise identical since they apparently use the same reflector (which appears to be identical to the original NDI). Scroll down to Parts II & III to see comparisons of the D10 and EX10 with other lights in their classes.










Both lights use a premium white WC-tint Cree Q5 emitter with textured reflector. Both my samples featured emitters with the traditional "yellow" backing around the die (i.e. as opposed to the "silver" versions that come from the Asian Cree assembly plant). There is a small scratch on the reflector of my D10 sample near the emitter - it is not as noticeable as the pic shows, and doesn't interfere with the beam pattern. 

*Piston Drive*

The way the lights work is that the battery is enclosed within a "piston" sleeve which is then in turn pressed against a thick brass contact ring in the head (which should help insure a greater contact interface than a traditional clicky). Switching thus occurs entirely in the head, and current runs through the sleeve and not the body. The contact ring is spring-mounted, and in combination with the MCU can produce different modes and features depending of degree of pressing. This innovative design also allows you to utilize the lights in a couple of different ways (i.e. as both a "twisty" and "clicky" light) - more on that in a moment.










The piston has an o-ring near the protruding button end, to insure a good seal for water-proofness. This also adds a little resistance to the motion (although the springs in the base of the piston and the head are providing most of that). *Note that currently-shipping lights are using an overly viscous lube on this o-ring that is causing the piston to seize or stick for some users, leading to inconsistent switching.* This is easily fixed by simply wiping off the excess lube upon receipt (and ideally re-applying a lower viscosity lube). David (4sevens) recommends Deoxit, but I find my radio shack Teflon lube works just as well (the one that comes in their "precision oiler"). Again, as usual, less is more when it comes to lubing. 

I find the piston-press in general to have good resistance and tactile feel - and while somewhat stiff, it is not overly hard to press when properly lubed. It may take some getting used for those who have only used traditional clickies. The traverse depends on what mode the light is in, as you will need to press further for additional features when in momentary-on mode (again, scroll down for a discussion of the interface). Typically, the traverse is further than on most MCU lights I've used (e.g. Novatac, LiteFlux LF5XT), but still quite familiar feeling.

*User Interface*

The UI is actually quite straightforward and easy to use. For a good instruction on how to use it, see 4sevens video guide here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irqhuV8Xo_A

I'm going to describe it in some detail here, because there are a few quirks that some have noted. These are not "bugs" per se, but your enjoyment of the light will be enhanced if you understand what it is doing and why (so you don't accidentally wind up doing somethin you don't want). If you are familiar with the NiteCore NDI and Extreme, you'll find this is basically just a revised interface that uses the tail-press instead of a head twist to activate and change states.

I'll start with the head fully tightened against the body. In this mode, a "click" (i.e. a press and rapid release) of the protruding piston button will turn the light on and leave it on. To jump to the minimum setting, simply double-click (i.e. press and release rapidly twice). To jump to the max setting, hold on the second click of the double-click - what's known as "click-press" for you Novatac fans (i.e. rapid press and release followed by a sustained press). After a 0.5 sec delay, the light will jump to max. 

To get the light to ramp up or down, simply press hold the piston button at any time when in fully tightened mode. To get the light to ramp in the other direction, just release and press hold again to re-start the ramp the other way. Note the you may need to do this re-start the ramp after using the "shortcut" double-click or click-press to jump to the extremes (i.e. the light "remembers" the last direction of the ramp, so may not be able to ramp any further in that direction, requiring you re-start it going the other way). This is not a "bug" per se, but a number of users have objected to it. Not a big deal for me personally. 

*If you are having problems in getting to the various modes consistently, a likely issue is not clicking/pressing quickly enough.* It's important to move rapidly between clicks and presses. Users of Novatacs will be familiar with this. 

The other way to run the light is as a "twisty" - tighten the light and turn it on, then back off on the head until the light turns off. You can now turn off and on by a twist of the head. But the light also works as a momentary-on this way - press on the piston button to temporarily activate the light, release to turn off. Note the momentary-on level will be whatever you last used when the light was on. You can still jump to max output in momentary-on mode by further depressing the piston button to as far as it will go, and holding it there. The light will jump to max in 0.5 secs.

This later point is significant, because it reveals how the MCU is responding to press depth. When fully tightened, the light is acting like a sustained partial press of the of the piston button. This means that the fully functionality of the multi click/press routines of the fully tightened head are available in momentary mode - but you will need to move quickly between half and full presses of the piston button. For example, to jump to low in momentary mode (i.e. double-click when fully tightened), you would need instead to hold at half-press, rapidly full press back to half-press twice, ending on sustained half-press. Same goes for ramping, etc. Tricky, but do-able with some practice. Personally, I wouldn't bother - I prefer running the light fully tightened and forgoing momentary-on.

*Memory Mode*

A more significant issue for some, this streamlined interface also has a memory mode that "remembers" only the last level you were in when you turn it off, and always comes back on at this level. This means that if you custom-set your output during the ramp but subsequently jump to min or max at some point, you are now memorized at the new min or max level and your custom-set level is gone. Unlike the more complicated lights that let you pre-set and memorize a number of output modes (usually accessed through multiple click to twist "switches" - like the Novatac, JetBeam IBS, LiteFlux, etc), these NiteCore lights simply retain the last output state - period.

*Lock-out*

Note that although it's been reported you could "lock-out" the light by unscrewing the head further, this is not a true lock-out. With sufficient pressure on the piston button, I was always able to activate the lights - right up to the point when the head is completely unscrewed. The reasoning is presumably that you are not likely to activate the light with the head significantly unscrewed (i.e. need greater and greater pressure on the piston to activate). But at no point are you insured of no activation, at least in my experience of these samples.

------------------------------------

*Part II: NiteCore D10 Comparison Review*

For a detailed EX10 review, see Part III below.

Some additional D10 build pics:


















To compare it to other members of its class, I've chosen (from left to right), the D10, NiteCore Defender Infinity, Fenix L1D, JetBeam Jet-I IBS, and Jet-II PRO.






*Comparison Beamshots*

All lights are on 100% on 2650mAh NiMH (Duracell), about 0.5 meters from a white wall. 




























As you can see, the beam profile is virtually identical to the NDI (as expected, given the same reflector). The D10 is perhaps somewhat less ringy, but this may just be individual variation (my pre-production NDI is smooth as butter, for ex. ).

*Testing Method:* All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's flashlightreviews.com method. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for the extended run Lo/Min modes which are done without cooling.

Throw values are the square-root of lux measurements taken at 1 meter from the lens, using a light meter.

*Throw/Output Summary Chart:*






On the face of things, it looks like the D10 is brighter than the NDI on 14500 on max, and about the same on standard batteries (NiMH/alkaline). Note that this is based on initial brightness though - scroll down to runtimes for a more thorough investigation. 

Low mode is definitely lower on the D10. Throw is also consistent with output between the models.

*Variable Output Ramping*






Although the manufacturer quotes 4 secs for the ramp, it's more like ~5-6 secs in my testing, which makes it about ~2 secs faster than the NDI.

*Output/Runtime Comparison:*

First, a comparison of all batteries on Max:






And now the detailed breakdown compared to the competition:


















































*Output/Runtime Comments:*

Although initially brighter on max on 14500, the D10 fairly quickly drops down to the max regulated level of the NDI.
On NiMH and 14500, runtime characteristics seem exactly the same between D10 and NDI, when matched for initial output
D10 runtimes are lower on alkalines - likely due to Vf variation among emitters. 

*UPDATE:* Added a second D10 to most of the Hi and Med comparisons above (labelled as #2 on the graphs). As you can see, max output was lower on this sample, but runtime was higher. This likely reflects Vf differences between the emitter samples.

----------------------------------------

*Part III: NiteCore EX10 Comparison Review*

For a detailed D10 review see Parts II above.

Some additional EX10 build pics:










To compare it to other members of its class, I've chosen (from left to right), the EX10, Fenix P2D, NiteCore Extreme, JetBeam Jet-II PRO IBS, Novatac 120P, LumaPower Incendio.






*Comparison Beamshots*

All lights are on 100% on RCR (AW Protected, 3.7V), about 0.5 meters from a white wall. 




























*Testing Method:* All my output numbers are relative for my home-made light box setup, a la Quickbeam's flashlightreviews.com method. You can directly compare all my relative output values from different reviews - i.e. an output value of "10" in one graph is the same as "10" in another. All runtimes are done under a cooling fan, except for the extended run Lo/Min modes which are done without cooling.

Throw values are the square-root of lux measurements taken at 1 meter from the lens, using a light meter.

*Throw/Output Summary Chart:*






Clearly, the EX10 is not as bright in initial output as the Extreme on either battery type. This is not surprising, given the smaller mass of the EX10 and the need to limit heat production. 

Like the D10/NDI comparison, low mode is definitely lower on the EX10 than Extreme. :thumbsup:

EX10 throw is a lot less than the Extreme, due to its smaller reflector (equivalent to the D10/NDI).

*Variable Output Ramping*






As you can see, ramping time is consistent with the Extreme at ~5 secs.

*Output/Runtime Comparison:*







































*Output/Runtime Comments:*

Although not as bright as the Extreme on either CR123A primaries or RCR, the EX10 seems to have the exact same runtime characteristics as the Extreme when matched for initial output

--------------------------

*Part IV: Preliminary Discussion*

*General Observations*

The new NiteCores represent an innovative build in the relatively inexpensive (~$55) mass-produced light market. Both lights feature a variant of the McGizmo piston drive design (i.e. no clicky switches). The user interface is an update of the existing NiteCore NDI and Extreme designs, with an emphasis on keeping it simple and uncluttered. The main difference is the "clicky-like" interface over the twist-switching of the earlier lights, but there's also a few new features thrown in (which may or may not appeal to all - see below for further comments).

*Output and runtime efficiency*

*In terms of output/runtime efficiency, these lights are basically the same as the previous NiteCore offerings (NDI and Extreme).* As my runtime graphs show quite clearly, the D10 and EX10 have virtually identical runtime characteristics as the earlier models. The only real difference is in the max and min output, and even here the difference is not typically huge.

*D10 (relative to NDI): *

Identical max output on standard batteries (NiMH/Alkaline)
Slight increase in max output on 14500, but this rapidly drops off to match the max regulated output of the NDI.
Lower min output on all battery types. :thumbsup:
D10 had reduced runtimes on alkaline in my first sample - likely due to Vf variation among samples (confirmed by EDGETAC). 
UPDATE: I've run a number of tests with another D10, and you'll see max output is ~10% less - but with corresponding longer runtime. 
Ramping time shortened by ~2 secs (i.e. ~5-6 secs on my D10)
*EX10 (relative to Extreme):*

Reduced max output on both primary CR123A and RCR, as expected for a smaller build light.
Min output is also noticeably lower on both battery types. :thumbsup:
Output/runtime virtually identical at all levels tested on both battery types (up to the max of the EX10, of course).
Ramping time virtually the same (i.e. ~5-6 secs on my EX10)

_*UPDATE July 14, 2008:* There has been some discussion of relative output of the D10 and EX10 to each other and the NDI and Extreme. EDGETAC confirms that the D10 is the same circuit as the NDI, so any difference you see here (e.g. higher initial output on my first D10 sample) is just natural variation among emitters (specifically Vf, which isn't being binned here). My second D10 shows this quite clearly - max output is even lower than my NDI sample, but the runtime characteristics are still exactly the same (i.e. lower output, more runtime). This illustrates that its not output bin that is the issue, but Vf.

The Extreme uses a different circuit with a higher maximum output. The D10/EX10/NDI are all limited in terms of their max output. This is not really an issue for me - I'm always been concerned of overheating in such small lights when run to such extreme levels, so this seems quite reasonable and prudent. But because of the Vf differences, it's possible that you may have a D10 or EX10 that is quite close to the Extreme initially on Li-ion. Note though that the Extreme maintains its initial output level is highly regulated fashion, whereas the D10/EX10/NDI all drop down to a lower regulated level in my testing._

Based on my recent lightbox calibration to the Novatac 120P, I would estimate my *D10/EX10 lights produce on initial brightness at Max ~110-130 lumens on primary NiMH/CR123A batteries, and ~130-165 lumens on Li-ion rechargeable 14500/RCR.* However, as the runtime graphs show, output on Li-ion drops off over the first few minutes to a regulated level that is remarkably close to the output of NiMH/CR123A (i.e. ~110-135 lumens, I'd estimate). :kiss:

*Interface differences*

As mentioned, the main UI difference from the earlier NiteCores is the clicky-like interface over the head twist switch. "Shortcuts" to quickly access min and max are also now available, although these will erase any pre-set output mode if you jump to them (i.e. light can only remember last mode it was in). Strobe mode has been removed.

The other main difference is that momentary-on is only available in the "twisty" mode of the new lights (i.e. head loosened). Although the ramping and min shortcut are technically still available in this mode, it is somewhat tricky to activate them given the need to perform multiple half and full quick and long presses. IMO, the light is really designed to run in head fully tightened mode, where it is relatively easy to use the whole feature set (i.e. ramp, max and min shortcuts). This is not a great loss to me, and I'm happy to run my light this way. 

This new UI makes it a lot easier to ramp the brightness now, as it can all be done with one hand.  However, the inability to keep a "user defined" level is frustrating for some (before, you could easily twist back forth from user defined to max - now, jumping to max will erase user defined). Personally, I'm finding this to be an acceptable trade-off in my early EDCing experience, but I'll keep you posted as I play with it more.

In comparison to other multi-level lights, the NiteCores are designed for relatively simple and straight-forward operation. But if you like the ability to set multiple independent light modes that you can rapidly switch between, you are out of luck here. For that, I suggest you check out my comparison reviews for discussions of the JetBeam IBS lights, Novatac 120P, or LiteFlux LF5XT. 

Personally, I tend to prefer the more versatile multi-level lights with multiple presets. But the simple UI and easy of use of the NiteCores tend to keep drawing me back for EDC purposes. And with the new one-handed ramping on the D10/EX10, the loss of presets is not as big an issue. Of course, YMMV ... 

*Handling differences*

I personally like longer 1AA lights with some knurling, since I typically use them in an overhand way with thumb on the switch (and I have large hands). On that front, the increased knurling on these new lights definitely helps with grip. But I find the EX10 a bit small to carry this way - you are better off using a cigar-type grip given its small size.

I also like the smooth bezel openings in the front, as I found the NDI's crenelated bezel could sometimes get caught on my holder (I typically use a Fenix 1AA or 1CR123A holster, depending). Although the EX10 steel bezel ring is visually attractive, I find it reduces the spillbeam width slightly and introduces an ever-so-slight halo effect during close-up use. Minor issues to be sure, but when coupled with the overall length and hand grip option, I prefer the D10 personally.

FYI, I don't find the piston resistance to be a problem, after cleaning and properly lubing both lights. I recommend everyone do this upon receipt of their lights.

*Issues*

A minor issue that may need some tweaking involves the brass ring in the head. In case of inconsistent switching, it may need to be adjusted by opening the gap using a fine tip screwdriver or other device (i.e. if the piston sleeve isn't making full contact with it). I didn't have any problems on my D10, but I did notice an issue on my EX10 - a "clicking" sound was heard in the head upon release of the piston switch, and the light was not always disengaging. 

I quickly realized the problem - the brass contact ring wasn't always springing back up smoothly after the piston release, but getting stuck or popping up with a delayed reaction (hence the clicking sound). In my case, the problem was easily solved by applying a generous portion of the same low viscosity Teflon lube around the outside of the ring and working it in by repeatedly pressing on the ring. That did the trick for me, but in more severe cases you may need to disassemble the head to more thoroughly lube the spring below this contact ring. This can done by unscrewing the steel retaining ring in the bezel of the EX10 using your thumb or a piece of cloth. The lens and bezel o-ring can then be removed, and the light engine will just fall out the front of the bezel.

Note that I don't consider either this or the overly viscous piston lube issue described earlier to be major problems. IMO, almost all mass-produced lights come with inappropriate lubing (more typically a lack of it). The point here is that with this innovative design, poor lubing may lead to switching/contact issues. EDGETAC is well aware of the issue, and I'm sure they will respond with better lube for the next batch of lights produced. Regardless, I always recommend a proper cleaning and lubing of all new lights as a matter of course.

Another point is the low-level current draw when the piston is making contact but the light is off. This is common in all "on-demand" electronic switches, since the circuit needs constant power to be able to respond to a pressure change at any time (as opposed to traditional clickies, that only complete the current when activated). Eventually, this will drain your battery - but in a properly designed light, it shouldn't be a problem for many months at least. I'm not sure what the estimated current draw is on these lights when off, and unfortunately haven't figured out yet how to get my DMM to directly read it on my samples ... anyone else managed to get a reading yet? :thinking:

*Final (Prelimnary) Word*

Readers of my reviews will know that while I typically like lights with multiple set-able states (e.g. Novatac 120P, JetBeam IBS, etc.), I have still tended to prefer to EDC my NiteCore NDI.

I haven't played with these new NiteCore lights long enough yet to say whether or not I prefer the UI over the original NDI/Extreme interface. There are pros and cons both ways - time will tell.

But there's no denying that build quality is certainly top-notch on my samples, as good as you could find in this price range. :twothumbs A piston drive on a mass-produced, inexpensive light is enough to justify one of them on the novelty of that feature alone!

I will update this review with more comments as I EDC them a bit more! :wave:

*UPDATE July 11, 2008:* EDGETAC confirms the D10 and NDI use the same circuit, which explains my nearly identical output/runtime results.

*UPDATE July 14, 2008:* Additional runtimes for a second D10 added, showing that max output for these lights is somewhat variable (likely due to Vf variation) - but the output/runtime characteristics are highly conserved.

*UPDATE Sept 24, 2008:* Comparison of these Cree Q5 versions to the new Golden Dragon Plus versions is available here.

*UPDATE MARCH 26, 2010: *The D10 has been replaced with a new "special edition" that lacks the continuously-variable interface but adds strobe and SOS support. Check out my detailed review of the D10SP for more info.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 10, 2008)

Per request, here are the runtimes for first D10 sample for all battery types on one graph:






Don't have as many tests for ~50% modes, but here goes:


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## liteMANIAC (Jul 10, 2008)

Wow thanks for the excellent reviews. Very well done :thumbsup:


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## HKJ (Jul 10, 2008)

Very nice review.

But maybe it would be a good idea to add some information about the standby current, a battery lifetime of max. 1/2 year (if your do not twist it off) will be an issue for some people.


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## THE_dAY (Jul 10, 2008)

The mother of all reviews!


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## lightsandknives (Jul 10, 2008)

Well done! Excellent review.


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## primox1 (Jul 10, 2008)

WHOOAAAAA...what a killer review.
Thanks for all your *hard work*!!!!!!!

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## HoopleHead (Jul 10, 2008)

:thumbsup: stellar as always, thanks for a great resource!


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## FEATHERSTONE (Jul 10, 2008)

Outstanding and GREATLY appreciated. 
Does anyone have a outside beam shot of the EX10?, been wondering what it looks like with spill and throw.


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## DM51 (Jul 10, 2008)

That is a very fine review indeed - great work. Moving it to the Review section now.


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## Niconical (Jul 10, 2008)

Thank you for the excellent review


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## tsask (Jul 10, 2008)

Excellent work!!!! Wonderful review!!! Thanks!!!!


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## LG&M (Jul 10, 2008)

Outstanding job :thumbsup: I appreciate your work and the fact your output rating is consistent and can be compared to your other reviews. Thank you. A lot of people here talk about how hard the piston is to push. I have not had this problem but I think you are right about the lube.


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## AFAustin (Jul 10, 2008)

selfbuilt,

Thanks so much for another of your detailed and comprehensive reviews---very welcome indeed for these much discussed new lights.

I've only just skimmed your fine work so far, but very interesting that your D10 on a 14500 has a pretty good edge on the EX10 on an RCR123A, both as to output and (especially) as to runtime. Any guess if that is the "Cree lottery", or a function of the cell type, or...? To my naked eye, my EX10 (on an RCR123A) outthrows my D10 (on a 14500), with the D10 having a slightly larger and less intense hotspot, along with a wider spillbeam.

Thanks again for your superb work!

Andrew


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## Crenshaw (Jul 10, 2008)

Thank you! numbers! yay!

nice to see that the low on the Ex10 really is LOW...

Crenshaw


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## selfbuilt (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks for postive comments everyone. :grouphug:



THE_dAY said:


> The mother of all reviews!


Yeah, you'd think I get paid by the word or something. :laughing:

FYI, I don't plan to have this level of detail in all my future reviews. But given the near hysteria levels of posts about these lights, I figured I needed to be as comprehensive as possible. 



HKJ said:


> But maybe it would be a good idea to add some information about the standby current, a battery lifetime of max. 1/2 year (if your do not twist it off) will be an issue for some people.


A good point - added to the review. But has anyone actually measured the standby current draw yet? I've tried with my DMM, but no dice so far.



LG&M said:


> A lot of people here talk about how hard the piston is to push. I have not had this problem but I think you are right about the lube.


My D10 is was pretty smooth right out of the box, but my EX10 was very stiff. Amazing the difference after a clean and proper lube. I suspect the red o-ring on my EX10 is also a bit thicker and stiffer than the clear o-rings on the D10, but I don't know if all EX10s come that way. 



AFAustin said:


> I've only just skimmed your fine work so far, but very interesting that the D10on a 14500 has a pretty good edge on the EX10 on an RCR123A, both as to output and (especially) as to runtime. Any guess if that is the "Cree lottery", or a function of the cell type, or...? To my naked eye, my EX10 (on an RCR123A) outthrows my D10 (on a 14500), and the D10 has a slightly larger and less intense hotspot along with a wider spillbeam.


You have a good eye for spoting that so fast Andrew. Yes, I suspect it is indeed the Cree Vf lottery at work. Usually I find that affects primaries more than Li-ions - which may also explain why my EX10 on CR123A is no brighter than my D10 on NiMH (I would have expected a little more, typically). But output/runtime efficiency is an exact match to my Extreme, so obviously it can't be too far out of whack.

FYI, I have received a second D10 that I purchased from 4sevens (for a gift), and I must say its output and beam pattern is virtually indistinguishable from the D10 I've reviewed here. They've certainly done a good job on sourcing WC tints.


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## LEDdicted (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks for your great review Selfbuilt. I tend to wait for your review before I make a decision on a light purchase.


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## gunga (Jul 11, 2008)

Excellent review as always Selfbuilt. Thank you so much for the service to the community.

BTW, I'm using superlube grease on my piston o-ring. It seems to work well, but the spring tension on mine (especially the longer travel EX10) is pretty high, so the thumb strains to keep the piston depressed. Does anyone else notice this?


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## HKJ (Jul 11, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> A good point - added to the review. But has anyone actually measured the standby current draw yet? I've tried with my DMM, but no dice so far.



I have . 


With a 1.2 Volt NiMH battery the standby current is 500uA
With a 3 Volt lithium the standby current is 190uA
With a 3.7 Volt LiIon the standby current is 120uA

All measurements done on the D10, and are rounded values.
The NiMA and LiIon value was about the same on EX10.


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## Mostly (Jul 11, 2008)

Thank you *selfbuilt*! Excellent review! I wanted a D10 before, and now I _REALLY _want one.  I'm impressed with the output/runtime of the L1D Q5, too--I'd heard how efficient L1D is, but it's nice to see it charted this way next to other Q5s. Makes me want to gift my older L1D and get the Q5 L1D for myself. 

Does anyone know a good way to convince one's wife that ~$110 for a couple of new flashlights really isn't that much? :shakehead


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## Burgess (Jul 11, 2008)

Wow !


Incredible job here, SelfBuilt !


:twothumbs


:goodjob::kewlpics::thanks:
_


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## Philbee (Jul 11, 2008)

Once more a great review. :twothumbs

 for the battery fund in appreciation of the hard work you do.


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## Rob187 (Jul 11, 2008)

Another superb selfbuilt review.

Thanks for your work.


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## Grateful Ned (Jul 11, 2008)

Superb work, selfbuilt. You da greatest. 

:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:

Hopefully the Nitecore folks will be addressing the brass ring-contact issue with the next batch. The lube issue we can all deal with ourselves. I'll be buying at least a couple of both lights.

...and waiting for the EX20 (CR123 *x 2*) of course....


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## LowBat (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks Selfbuilt! You posted just the graph I was looking for; a comparison of the D10 to the L1D-Q5 using a 2650 NiMH. Now I know when the D10 is ramped down to 85% to match the L1D's output the runtime is nearly identical.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 11, 2008)

..
:twothumbs Selfbuilt  Extremely Thorough review .... not a thing left out !

You must do product reviews for a living - if not - you could !

Thank you for recognizing the need to be so detailed in your review on these new lights that are so popular. Everyone was waiting anxiously for such a review. You covered All the issues and questions about the new *Smart PD* design.

I very much appreciate the generosity of ALL our reviewers !

I think I'll have to donate to your *Battery Fund* - sig line

 .... from NDY in fla. / for your *TIME* and batteries.


 TooManyGizmos .... Thanks You ....
.


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## LowBat (Jul 11, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> I think I'll have to donate to your *Battery Fund* - sig line


I didn't notice the battery fund on first read.  :thanks: :goodjob:


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 11, 2008)

..
:twothumbs.. YES ... I'm glad he put that in his Sig. line at the bottom.

He made it very easy for us - goes directly to a page listing ALL his reviews - with *Cash* and *CreditCard* Donation buttons at the top - sending you directly to PayPal site.

*I think ALL our reviewers should do that !
*
They ALL deserve funding for their time and expenses for our benifit !

Please help em - to keep the reviews coming !
.


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## Rzr800 (Jul 11, 2008)

TooManyGizmos said:


> ..
> :twothumbs.. YES ... I'm glad he put that in his Sig. line at the bottom.
> 
> He made it very easy for us - goes directly to a page listing ALL his reviews - with *Cash* and *CreditCard* Donation buttons at the top - sending you directly to PayPal site.
> ...


 
Very much agreed and I just wanted to thank you also for including our (obsolete) Jetbeams in your comparison charts. Not much love out here lately for the old or new models; yet it is nice to compare same with the D10 in our hands sans any further word concerning the future of the line itself or even further review of the latest IBS model.

You're the man! :thumbsup:


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## simple (Jul 11, 2008)

LowBat said:


> I didn't notice the battery fund on first read.  :thanks: :goodjob:


 
Why I can't find the link?

Oh, great review!


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## TooManyGizmos (Jul 11, 2008)

simple said:


> Why I can't find the link?
> 
> Oh, great review!




Very Last line of the looong first post

bottom of page

about here
.


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## m16a (Jul 11, 2008)

Great review selfbuilt. Thanks for the hard work and effort:thumbsup:


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## selfbuilt (Jul 11, 2008)

gunga said:


> BTW, I'm using superlube grease on my piston o-ring. It seems to work well, but the spring tension on mine (especially the longer travel EX10) is pretty high, so the thumb strains to keep the piston depressed. Does anyone else notice this?


Yes, actually, I do notice my EX10 has more resistance when using in momentary mode, causing thumb strain for sustained momentary on. Don't know if that's specific for the model design, or just a firmer spring that particular piston. :shrug:



HKJ said:


> With a 1.2 Volt NiMH battery the standby current is 500uA
> With a 3 Volt lithium the standby current is 190uA
> With a 3.7 Volt LiIon the standby current is 120uA


Thanks HKJ. Unfortunately, both my DMMs are unreliable for current draw measures. Even on 10A channel, I can tell from my light meter that output is reduced when the DMM completes the circuit, suggesting a fair amount of resistance (although that could be in my test leads). But while I don't trust my absolute numbers, I have noticed that the 1.2V NiMH produces ~4x the standby current of the 3.7V 14500, so that tracks with your results.

Out of curiosity, what are you current draws on Max output for those batteries?



LowBat said:


> Thanks Selfbuilt! You posted just the graph I was looking for; a comparison of the D10 to the L1D-Q5 using a 2650 NiMH. Now I know when the D10 is ramped down to 85% to match the L1D's output the runtime is nearly identical.





Mostly said:


> I'm impressed with the output/runtime of the L1D Q5, too--I'd heard how efficient L1D is, but it's nice to see it charted this way next to other Q5s. Makes me want to gift my older L1D and get the Q5 L1D for myself.


Yeah, the L1D is a great performer. But before you trade in your older ones for the Q5, you might want to check out my Fenix comparison review. In 1AA form, there's not a very great difference in output between the models (need to run in 2AA or 1xCR123A to really see it). Plus the runtime of the Rebel versions was definitely better than the Crees in my testing.



Rzr800 said:


> Very much agreed and I just wanted to thank you also for including our (obsolete) Jetbeams in your comparison charts.


I wouldn't say they are obsolete just yet.  

But it is exceedingly difficult to design a circuit that is efficient on all battery types at all points in the variable output, AND that runs at maximum possible battery output. In JetBeam's case with the IBS, they opted to produce max output on 3.0-3.7V, but this apparently led to their known efficiency problems on 1.2V NiMH in the med-hi output range. 

In contrast, NiteCore opted to limit max output on 3.0-3.7V, and has managed to maintain excellent output/runtime efficiency through the available range on all battery types. Everything involves a trade-off, I suppose. But it provides choice for consumers!


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## AFAustin (Jul 11, 2008)

selfbuilt, 

 for the "battery fund".

Thanks again for all your terrific work!

Cheers,

Andrew


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## Steve L (Jul 11, 2008)

simple said:


> Why I can't find the link?
> 
> Oh, great review!


It's the last item in selfbuilt's signature line at the bottom of all his posts


> Round-up reviews: Multi-stage 1AA, "Thrower" MRV-class, and 1xCR123A/RCR. Latest review: NiteCore D10 & EX10.
> A list of all my CPF reviews is available here. _Now gratefully accepting __donations__ to my battery fund! :wave:_


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## JKL (Jul 11, 2008)

:thumbsup: Great review !

JKL


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## m16a (Jul 11, 2008)

One more quick question. You say in your review that according to your novatac calibrated lightbox, the D10/EX10 is 150-165 lumens on max with a rechargeable li-on? I trust your judgment, but is this really accurate? 150lm from a 14500 is very good in my humble opinion.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks for your donations everyone  - I would have replied by e-mail individually, but my ISPs SMTP server is down this morning.

FYI, EDGETAC has confirmed for me that the NDI and D10 uses the same circuit, hence the identical runtime performance. As to the lower performance of my D10 on alkaline, they suggested that's due to Vf variation among the emitters. Makes sense.

I do have a second D10 that I purchased, so I'll do some alkaline tests on that one to compare later (lightbox currently tied up with my LF5XT). 



m16a said:


> One more quick question. You say in your review that according to your novatac calibrated lightbox, the D10/EX10 is 150-165 lumens on max with a rechargeable li-on? I trust your judgment, but is this really accurate? 150lm from a 14500 is very good in my humble opinion.


It is hard to know beyond the calibration standard of the 120P (i.e. 120 lumens on CR123, and ~125lumens on RCR). But the relationship is remarkably good <120, so I suspect that it holds up quite well for the area just above that range.

*FYI, ~150-165 lumen estimate is for initial output only *(just clarified in post #1). If you look at the regulated output of the graphs on max, it appears to be closer to ~120-135 lumens once it levels off. This underscores the importance of doing runtimes to measure output throughout the run, and not just at initial turn-on.


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## Rzr800 (Jul 11, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> "...I wouldn't say they are obsolete just yet.  ..."


 


I used to tell my customers that an item had become obsolete when the manufacturer informed me that they would no longer be available when the current supply was exhausted (which is obviously a worldwide phenomena nowadays).

That's why I am so appreciative of the fact that you have included these lights in your graphs for comparison; as it is difficult enough to explain this 'newest' model with no advance or current specific info evidently forthcoming...not to mention the difference in regulation between a very hard driven (IBS); fairly hard driven (original Jet I Pro albeit with more eficient R2) and "well" regulated Nitecore.

Obviously, I'd like to see somebody lend or give you a brand new Q5 Pro IBS for even a short comment in regards to your observations...yet believe me, I'm happy with all the hard work that you've done to date and am able to most likely 'cipher' between the lines because of that generosity.


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## orbital (Jul 11, 2008)

+

selfbuilt,

_*thanks*_ for all the fantastic/professional reviews, along with the time you put in. 
I always look forward to your take on lights, the beamshots and runtime graphs.

 for your battery fund.


~ my EX10 has become my EDC...:thumbsup:


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## m16a (Jul 11, 2008)

After seeing a vid of an extreme L0D CE test where it was shot with a .22 rifle, I was wondering. Selfbuilt, you do such excellent reviews, would you ever consider doing stress tests?:naughty:


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## LED-holic (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks *selfbuilt* for the excellent review!!!!


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## amanichen (Jul 11, 2008)

Thanks for the runtime graphs!

I was _almost_ seduced by the D10, until I saw the graphs. The driver appears to be a funky combination of a PWM + boost circuit (http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2552316&postcount=108), and from the runtime graphs selfbuilt posted above, the D10 just doesn't seem to have very good partial output efficiency. This is consistent with the waveform graphs that Tohuwabohu posted - at part output the LED is getting a high voltage, but at a low duty cycle. At full load, the light is getting a higher duty cycle, with a lower voltage. At partial output the LED the voltage spikes are so high that the combined effect of PWM and boost worse than just PWM because the LED is operating so far up on its V-I curve.

I was hoping for more than a +20 minutes going from 100% to 85% on NIMH batteries. To me, partial output efficiency is one of the biggest reasons to get a multi level light. I think I'll pass on the Nitecore until when/if the circuit is replaced with a more efficient one.


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## DavidD (Jul 11, 2008)

amanichen said:


> I was hoping for more than a +20 minutes going from 100% to 85% on NIMH batteries. To me, partial output efficiency is one of the biggest reasons to get a multi level light. I think I'll pass on the Nitecore until when/if the circuit is replaced with a more efficient one.



I will admit that I have absolutely no understanding of those other graphs depicting something regarding PWM, but I don't think the above statement regarding its lack of efficiency is correct.

The Fenix circuits are regarded as having some of the best efficiency available. One aspect possibly is that they aren't Boost/Buck (can't properly/fully use li-ion). When the NC D10 was reduced from 100% to 85%, matching the output of the L1D, the runtime was nearly identical (little less). Sure, it _only_ gained 20 minutes, but ended up nearly matching the amazing Fenix circuit, all while retaining the ability to fully use li-ions. How is this not "efficient"?


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## primox1 (Jul 11, 2008)

When I run the EX10 on max for 5 minutes or so, the head gets pretty warm....even after the first minute I feel the heat coming through. 

Selfbuilt...how warm/hot does either unit get when running them on max for the amt of time you did? Is it a conern?

Thanks


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## amanichen (Jul 11, 2008)

DavidD said:


> I will admit that I have absolutely no understanding of those other graphs depicting something regarding PWM, but I don't think the above statement regarding its lack of efficiency is correct.
> 
> The Fenix circuits are regarded as having some of the best efficiency available. One aspect possibly is that they aren't Boost/Buck (can't properly/fully use li-ion). When the NC D10 was reduced from 100% to 85%, matching the output of the L1D, the runtime was nearly identical (little less). Sure, it _only_ gained 20 minutes, but ended up nearly matching the amazing Fenix circuit, all while retaining the ability to fully use li-ions. How is this not "efficient"?


You are correct about the 85%. I guess I have should emphasized that my concern for the 50% range. Unfortunately the only runtimes for 50% are on alkalines, but they show that the L1D is better. The D10 and L1D start at a similar output, and the D10 stops well before the L1D - almost half the runtime.

I understand the alkaline results can't be translated into NIMH results, but the overall trends should stay the same.

I predict that the L1D for the 50% runtime graph (if Selfbuilt does one) will last longer than the D10 on NIMH cells. I'd love to be proven incorrect because everything else about the D10 makes me want to buy it. My only sticking point is partial output efficiency.


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## jbviau (Jul 11, 2008)

primox1 said:


> When I run the EX10 on max for 5 minutes or so, the head gets pretty warm....even after the first minute I feel the heat coming through.
> 
> Selfbuilt...how warm/hot does either unit get when running them on max for the amt of time you did? Is it a conern?
> 
> Thanks



Anecdotally, I left my EX10 on high for 10 minutes in candle mode yesterday, and when I grabbed it afterward it was quite hot. Not "yank your hand away in pain" hot (i.e. I didn't drop it), but uncomfortably hot all the same. The battery inside was pretty hot also. Probably if I'd been holding the light during those 10 min. the light wouldn't have heated up as much. I'm guessing selfbuilt used a fan, but I'm sure he'll say one way or the other pretty soon.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 11, 2008)

amanichen said:


> I predict that the L1D for the 50% runtime graph (if Selfbuilt does one) will last longer than the D10 on NIMH cells. I'd love to be proven incorrect because everything else about the D10 makes me want to buy it. My only sticking point is partial output efficiency.


Thanks for the clarification amanichen. I understand what you are getting at, unfortunately I haven't done NiMH runtimes lower than ~85% yet (where the NDI does remarkably well).

I agree that the L1D is likely to be the clear output/runtime performance champ at lower modes, due to current-controlled circuit. Historically, I have stuck with alkalines for low mode runtimes for a simple reason - I don't mind if the cells run down.  But I'm reluctant to let any of my NiMH run unattended, as it's really bad for NiMH to be completely depleted (and it's hard to accurately predict when a lower output mode runtime will come to an end). But as I've noticed in general, runtime on primary cells (be they alkaline or CR123A) tend to be greatly affected by Vf (which is not controlled for on any of these lights, AFAIK). 

But this is an important issue, so I think it probably is worth sacrificing a cell or two. . I have one Sanyo eneloop that accidentally got discharged completely and was left sitting that way for awhile. I've tested its self-discharge, and I know it doesn't hold its charge as well as healthy cells anymore. I was going to try and rehabilitate it, but instead I'll use it for some ~50% mode testing first.

To make this "fair", I'll try to match the D10 and NDI to the L1D's medium mode, which is ~50% max output. I'm in the middle of testing a few other lights, so it might be a couple of days before I can update. I'll keep you posted!


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## primox1 (Jul 11, 2008)

jbviau said:


> Anecdotally, I left my EX10 on high for 10 minutes in candle mode yesterday, and when I grabbed it afterward it was quite hot. Not "yank your hand away in pain" hot (i.e. I didn't drop it), but uncomfortably hot all the same. The battery inside was pretty hot also. Probably if I'd been holding the light during those 10 min. the light wouldn't have heated up as much. I'm guessing selfbuilt used a fan, but I'm sure he'll say one way or the other pretty soon.


 
Thanks for sharing. 
10 minutes seems rather quick for a light to get _that_ hot. 
So lets say if it ran unattended for ~30 minutes, with no "cooling." Would this cause any problems with the life of the LED or anything else? :thinking:


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## Tohuwabohu (Jul 11, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> ...
> Thanks HKJ. Unfortunately, both my DMMs are unreliable for current draw measures. Even on 10A channel, I can tell from my light meter that output is reduced when the DMM completes the circuit, suggesting a fair amount of resistance (although that could be in my test leads). But while I don't trust my absolute numbers, I have noticed that the 1.2V NiMH produces ~4x the standby current of the 3.7V 14500, so that tracks with your results.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what are you current draws on Max output for those batteries?
> ...


According to my measurements on max. brightness with my bench power supply the current draw at 3.8V is 0.55A. It increases with increasing or decreasing voltage from this point. This could be the bend in your runtime graphs.
Maximum current draw is approximately 2A at 1.1V.
Voltage can be decreased to 0.2V without the light shutting off but it is only glowing very dim then. 0.8V are needed to turn on the light.

My standby current measurements are 0.12mA at 4V and 0.58A at 1.2V.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 11, 2008)

jbviau said:


> Anecdotally, I left my EX10 on high for 10 minutes in candle mode yesterday, and when I grabbed it afterward it was quite hot. Not "yank your hand away in pain" hot (i.e. I didn't drop it), but uncomfortably hot all the same. The battery inside was pretty hot also. Probably if I'd been holding the light during those 10 min. the light wouldn't have heated up as much. I'm guessing selfbuilt used a fan, but I'm sure he'll say one way or the other pretty soon.


The EX10 will get quite warm unattended, but it's not as bad as the Jet-II IBS models (which run at higher currents for greater brightness). 

As a general rule, I don't ever recommend running any light at its max output unattended - better to save that for lower output modes, and keep max for when you are holding it (or there's some other form of cooling, such as on a moving bike, etc.).


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## bdws1975 (Jul 11, 2008)

would it be possible to see comparison beamshots between the D10 and the EX10? If it's not needed due to comparable output, then please disregard. 

Take care,
brett


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## HKJ (Jul 11, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> Out of curiosity, what are you current draws on Max output for those batteries?



I have done some current measurements at max output:

D10
1.2V 1.8A
3.7V 0.49A

EX10
1.2V 1.8A
3V 1.37A
3.7V 0.6A


The measurement at 1.2V was quite unstable.
Also note that the EX10 and D10 has different current draw at 3.6V (I used the same battery)
All voltages are battery nominal voltage, not actual voltage!!!

All measurement are done with a Fluke 189 meter at the 10A range.


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## Splunk_Au (Jul 12, 2008)

So the Max is 100% right? Roughly what % is your Hi and Med brightness levels?


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## mr.snakeman (Jul 12, 2008)

Great review, Selfbuilt. On my two the D10 has about twice the spring travel of the EX10, making it "feel" harder. Both have equally thick red o-rings on their respective pistons and throw and color are almost identical- the D10 has a slightly, very slightly, larger beam spread. All in all, a couple of well built and very fun lights.:thumbsup:


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## Mostly (Jul 12, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> Yeah, the L1D is a great performer. But before you trade in your older ones for the Q5, you might want to check out my Fenix comparison review. In 1AA form, there's not a very great difference in output between the models (need to run in 2AA or 1xCR123A to really see it). Plus the runtime of the Rebel versions was definitely better than the Crees in my testing.



Thanks for the info... I didn't know the Q5 had that (slightly) shorter runtime. I guess I already knew I didn't _need _a new Q5 L1D, though I do already have an L2D body I could use with it too. I don't seem to use the L2D body as much as I thought I would though. 

Back on topic--now all I need to save up for is the D10!


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## sb_pete (Jul 12, 2008)

Great review as always Selfbuilt. Thanks and keep up the great work!
-Pete


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## Rzr800 (Jul 12, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> "... But I'm reluctant to let any of my NiMH run unattended, as it's really bad for NiMH to be completely depleted...*But this is an important issue*, so I think it probably is worth sacrificing a cell or two. . *I have one Sanyo eneloop that accidentally got discharged completely* and was left sitting that way for awhile. I've tested its self-discharge, and I know *it doesn't hold its charge as well as healthy cells anymore*..."


 
Question:

There are at least a few of us up here who continually question the feasibility of even Li-ion battery protection in a >$50 torch...or better yet *NiMh* protection if manufacturers (evidently) feel that relying on 'protected' Li-ions is all that is needed for both optimum safety and general cell health.

I feel that this issue issue is somewhat akin to the most recent lack of advance lights for review shipped the very day that they are introduced...in that but of a few of us up here seem to be fighting for even the _basics_ to be included as part of the entire 'CPF package' (if you will) with simple battery protection circuitry _seemingly_ a no-brainer expectation.

Again, I hate to get in trouble for pointing out the obvious...yet if selfbuilt is willing to state it also in regards to cells that I frankly paid good money for and would like to _forget_ about when using (or not using) my torch over a long period of time or during emergencies...then let's get some kind of idea as to what it truly costs to *add* this peace of mind to what is already an extremely expensive item outsourced overseas.

It's being done on even smaller lights costing much less and I'm just not of the opinion that it's rocket science or even a budget buster on the engineering side. Love my D10...yet there is absolutely no reason that I should have to even consider battery protection in these lights...other than my fellow CPF members worrying more about UI (quote/unquote) "problems" than what they _could_ have if they indeed spoke up more about this issue.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 12, 2008)

bdws1975 said:


> would it be possible to see comparison beamshots between the D10 and the EX10? If it's not needed due to comparable output, then please disregard.


They are pretty much identical, except the EX10 has a bit narrower spillbeam as I noted in the review (due to the bezel ring). If I get a chance, I'll try to update with a pic.



Splunk_Au said:


> So the Max is 100% right? Roughly what % is your Hi and Med brightness levels?


You can derive relative % brightness by looking at my relative output scale. For all intents and purposes, it is reasonably linear over the range reported here. So, for ex, the EX10 "med/hi" is about 42/60, or 70% of max.



mr.snakeman said:


> Great review, Selfbuilt. On my two the D10 has about twice the spring travel of the EX10, making it "feel" harder.


Interesting ... doesn't seem to be a clear consensus one model or the other (most others have felt the EX10 was stiffer). May just be relative spring stiffness.




Rzr800 said:


> There are at least a few of us up here who continually question the feasibility of even Li-ion battery protection in a >$50 torch...or better yet *NiMh* protection if manufacturers (evidently) feel that relying on 'protected' Li-ions is all that is needed for both optimum safety and general cell health.


As I recall, a number of people objected to the low voltage Li-ion protection in the original NDI, since it could lead to inappropriate early termination. Since most people use protected cells anyway, I agree it's probably not needed - and difficult to implement well (Li-ion only lights, like my Horus FD-1.3, were another matter - much easier to do there).

But I presume the issue you mean here is NiMH protection specifically - and that's actually a very good idea in my view (although I don't know how hard it would be to implement in a multi-power light). FYI, I've just started testing my LF5XT and was surprised to see it has NiMH low voltage protection (i.e. shuts down the light when output decreased to ~25% or so - DMM read 1.15V on the battery immediately afterwards). So it looks like that light has it ...


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## CandlePowerForumsUser (Jul 12, 2008)

Awesome review, it was a pleasure reading it. You sold me the NDI Extreme.

I was considering the new PD ones but I wasn't sure how the UI would function. Now I understand and I prefer the Extreme's UI. 

Thanks!

:thumbsup:


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## selfbuilt (Jul 12, 2008)

Just updated the main post with the Hi mode alkaline runtime test on a second D10 sample:






Click your browser reload if you don't see the trace for the second D10.

As you can see, runtime on this sample was back into the expected range. All part of the Vf lottery I guess - at least it doesn't seem to be an issue for performance on rechargeable cells (NiMH/Li-ion).



CandlePowerForumsUser said:


> I was considering the new PD ones but I wasn't sure how the UI would function. Now I understand and I prefer the Extreme's UI.


I haven't decided which UI I prefer yet. But I'm continuing to EDC one of the PD lights, so we'll see ...


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## Rzr800 (Jul 12, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> "...As I recall, a number of people objected to the low voltage Li-ion protection in the original NDI, since it could lead to inappropriate early termination. Since most people use protected cells anyway, I agree it's probably not needed - and difficult to implement well (Li-ion only lights, like my Horus FD-1.3, were another matter - much easier to do there).
> 
> But I presume the issue you mean here is NiMH protection specifically - and that's actually a very good idea in my view (although I don't know how hard it would be to implement in a multi-power light). FYI, I've just started testing my LF5XT and was surprised to see it has NiMH low voltage protection (i.e. shuts down the light when output decreased to ~25% or so - DMM read 1.15V on the battery immediately afterwards). So it looks like that light has it ...


 

As far as I can tell (and I am no circuit engineer) the above light not only offers _both_ Li-ion _and_ NiMh circuitry protection...but it actually _warns_ the user before he or she even _arrives_ at that point!
This, to me, is not a matter of screwing with the simplistic nature of the torch...but a feature that CPF members simply don't _demand_ in their torch discussions to begin with...because they're much to busy talking about "oh...and I absolutely _hate_ it when I have to push that button twice!..." in regards to a light that isn't even _designed_ that way for good reason! :sigh:

To give yet another example....how many members took Jetbeam to task http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=176875&page=8 for the design of their switches over all this time even after BOG claimed that they receive very few, if any, back. JB announces a _new_ switch and (hold the phone) makes it even _forward_ activated...the thread goes deader than a doornail for days on end!

I don't ever blame Jetbeam or even 4sevens for 'passing' on some of the harder questions asked (many times there are a _lot_ of them and it is simply impossible) but I believe that we are our own worst enemies when it comes to exactly what we would like to see in these lights and even how they are marketed to us (see the fate of the newest Jet I Pro).

Manufacturers and distributors aren't up here to hold our hands over _pages and pages_ of "if I only didn't have to(s)..." they're here to determine what means the _most_ to us and deliver it. 

And if simply protecting our batteries is asking to much of those fixated elsewhere...then maybe I really don't understand the flashaholic syndrome to begin with.


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## gadgetnerd (Jul 12, 2008)

As someone who's ruined a few cells overdischarging them, I appreciate the option of battery protection if it's there. And in the LF5XT it actually is an option, which can be disabled. Can't say fairer than that. Then again there are people object to even having the choice. Go figure.


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## DM51 (Jul 13, 2008)

Very good post, Rzr800.


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## amanichen (Jul 13, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> Click your browser reload if you don't see the trace for the second D10.
> 
> As you can see, runtime on this sample was back into the expected range. All part of the Vf lottery I guess - at least it doesn't seem to be an issue for performance on rechargeable cells (NiMH/Li-ion).


Holy cow.

I don't know I'm willing to play a lottery that big. I just hope the performance on NIMHs is more consistent =)


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## selfbuilt (Jul 13, 2008)

DM51 said:


> Very good post, Rzr800.


Ditto. 



amanichen said:


> I don't know I'm willing to play a lottery that big. I just hope the performance on NIMHs is more consistent =)


I'll keep you posted, but I don't expect much of a difference on a regulated NiMH mode (based on results to date and my experience with other lights). It seems to be primary cells that are most effected by Vf in these newer multi-power light.

But this raises another point related to Rz800's comments about what we as a community prize. In the early LED lights, we were lucky if most manufacturers even went for defined output bins. Over the last year or so, it's become commonplace to specify tint bin. Are we finally getting to the point where we will expect/require consistent Vf bins too?

Certainly among modders, we always went for defined Vf bins to best match with a given circuit. I can forsee a day where manufacturers will pick up on this and source what the community wants (assuming they get the feeback that consistent Vf matters). I have a dream ...


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## amanichen (Jul 14, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> But this raises another point related to Rz800's comments about what we as a community prize. In the early LED lights, we were lucky if most manufacturers even went for defined output bins. Over the last year or so, it's become commonplace to specify tint bin. Are we finally getting to the point where we will expect/require consistent Vf bins too?


I don't care about WHAT bin, as long as they're the same. If the bins on all the lights are different, then it would be unethical for a manufacturer to publish a specific set of runtime and brightness numbers (a range would be more appropriate.) While it's not a light manufacturer's job to educate people about LEDs, it is in their best interest to be truthful about the complete products they produce, regardless of how each individual component performs.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 14, 2008)

I've justed updated the main post with some Hi and Med mode runtimes of a second D10 sample on a number of batteries. As you'll see, max output was noticeably less than my first one - almost 10% in some cases. But the runtime characteristics are still exactly the same (i.e. lower output, more runtime). This illustrates that its not output bin that is the issue, but Vf variation.

I think the take home message here is that since the emitters are not being binned for Vf, there is some understandable natural variation. And I don't think its fair to single NiteCore out for this - it's common practice among almost all the mass-produced lights. I think if we want more consistency in terms of Vf, this is message we should be relaying back to all manufacturers. 

These results also help to explain the variation seen by other members here (including nearly as great initial output of D10/EX10s as the Extreme in some cases on Li-ion). But note that the Extreme maintains its initial output level in a highly regulated fashion, whereas the D10/EX10/NDI all drop down to a lower regulated level in my testing. If I were to estimate lumen output of the regulated modes, I'd say the D10/EX10/NDI drop down to ~110-130lumens (depending on sample and battery), whereas my Extreme runs regulated at ~170-175 lumens on both battery types.

I've also done a few med modes on a Sanyo Eneloop - not surprising, the Fenix's current-controlled low modes remain the king:






Anyway, that's going to have to do for updates to these lights for the moment - I'm busy working on my LF5XT review.


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## Rzr800 (Jul 15, 2008)

Thanks for the Vf vs output bin explanation and real life example in terms of (finally) determining exactly what is important to us and what is not up here on CPF.

I imagine that a lot of members would just as soon 'sticky' the above and even quick link it every time a perceived difference is brought forward or a manufacturer/distributor vendor questioned on these matters.

Off topic...yet I equate this apparent unwillingness to develop a meaningful dialogue among all of us to my years past frustrations involving the offroad community.

Nearly everybody in offroading felt that it was their 'right' to receive more and more public land for ORV access...yet not a one of them was willing to discuss just what exactly that access should look like or consist of on a united front...nor what they were willing to actually _pay_ in order to make their desires a reality within the framework of what was truly workable.

Thanks again for making us understand the issue here, selfbuilt and hopefully opening our eyes as to how indeed these things get changed to everybody's benefit.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 15, 2008)

Rzr800 said:


> yet not a one of them was willing to discuss just what exactly that access should look like or consist of on a united front...nor what they were willing to actually _pay_ in order to make their desires a reality within the framework of what was truly workable.


I think you hit the nail on the head there, Rz800. If things like output, tint, and Vf binning matter to us, then we will need to pay more for it. Obviously, manufacturers have gotten that message very clearly for output bins. Tint bins are starting to become quite well specified too. But the extra costs involved for defined Vf bins is pretty much unknown at this point.

I can see where having reliable availability of defined output, tint and Vf bins simultaneously could be quite difficult for the light makers, if not impossible. It's one thing to do a custom run of a small number of lights off one reel of Cree emitters. But I can't imagine the logistics of sourcing consistent triple-bins for mass-produced lights.

I suspect we will likely have to make due with Vf variability, but perhaps someone with more knowledge of the ins-and-outs of the flashlight making business (especially emitter part sourcing) could comment ...


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## Rzr800 (Jul 15, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> "...If things like output, tint, and Vf binning matter to us, *then we will need to pay more for it*..I can see where having reliable availability of defined output, tint and Vf bins simultaneously could be quite difficult for the light makers, if not impossible. It's one thing to do a custom run of a small number of lights off one reel of Cree emitters. But I can't imagine the logistics of sourcing consistent triple-bins for mass-produced lights...I suspect we will likely have to make due with Vf variability..."


 
It reminds me of the LiteFlux thread where guys were (evidently) specifying (and receiving) individualized tint.

I would imagine that anything could have a price put on it if, as you say, anybody even bothered to comment on this desire...yet I think manufacturers and even more so distributors get a little bunt out on what would _seem_ to be the obvious:

Anything out of the norm beyond the often ridiculousness of customer service (which, I'm sorry, but vendors often bring on themselves)....you're going to have to pay for.

Heck, we don't even many times offer to meet these guys half-way on some of these costs and tend to lean towards just the opposite:

"How can I get that for next to nothing...or better yet...'free' "? 

(sorry to go off-topic; yet even reviews aren't necessarily free....and I'll unashamedly use that segway to plug your battery fund and at least 'appear' to be getting back on track... )


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## brucec (Jul 15, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> *Warning: Picture and text heavy!*
> A minor issue that may need some tweaking involves the brass ring in the head. In case of inconsistent switching, it may need to be adjusted by opening the gap using a fine tip screwdriver or other device (i.e. if the piston sleeve isn't making full contact with it). I didn't have any problems on my D10, but I did notice an issue on my EX10 - a "clicking" sound was heard in the head upon release of the piston switch, and the light was not always disengaging.
> 
> I quickly realized the problem - the brass contact ring wasn't always springing back up smoothly after the piston release, but getting stuck or popping up with a delayed reaction (hence the clicking sound). In my case, the problem was easily solved by applying a generous portion of the same low viscosity Teflon lube around the outside of the ring and working it in by repeatedly pressing on the ring. That did the trick for me, but in more severe cases you may need to disassemble the head to more thoroughly lube the spring below this contact ring. This can done by unscrewing the steel retaining ring in the bezel of the EX10 using your thumb or a piece of cloth. The lens and bezel o-ring can then be removed, and the light engine will just fall out the front of the bezel.
> ...



Thanks for the advice as I had a similar problem with the piston releasing on one of my EX10s. However, I would like to warn everyone that there is a potential danger if this is not fixed properly. I worked in the lube without full disassembly and got the piston working more smoothly. But, as it turns out, not smoothly enough because the piston must have popped back at some point (in my backpack). I don't know how long it had been on (max), but it was *one hot potato* when I finally discovered it. I was barely able to touch it long enough to turn it off and the battery label had partly melted off! Anyways, after a full overhaul and lube job, it seems to be behaving itself. I am still not confident to leave it in clicky mode, but thankfully, I prefer momentary anyways. Hope this helps save some lights and backpacks!


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## cave dave (Jul 16, 2008)

Back in the day HDS used to offer Programability, Flux, Tint and Vf upgrades at about $20 for each one if I recall. 
So the HDS EDC U60XRGT cost about $80 more than a B42, IIRC.

Who is willing to do that on a chinese $54 light?


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## Rzr800 (Jul 16, 2008)

cave dave said:


> Back in the day HDS used to offer Programability, Flux, Tint and Vf upgrades at about $20 for each one if I recall.
> So the HDS EDC U60XRGT cost about $80 more than a B42, IIRC.
> 
> *Who is willing to do that on a chinese $54 light?*


 
Great point and one that should probably be a 'sticky' in terms of answering future questions. I think the problem here centers around the fact that CPFer's feedback concerning these items centers around raw complaints...rather than any opportunity for manufacturers or distributors to actually provide these options through true quality CPF suggestions followed by a "put your money where your mouth is" standard fee structure.


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## LED-holic (Jul 16, 2008)

Great info. 

With regards to the nimh self-protection, it would be nice to have, but for me, it's not a big priority.

The reason I say this is because I EDC my D10, and as soon as the light isn't as bright on max any more, I charge the Eneloop. Same on my L1D, and other lights.

Battery protection might be a good idea for a light that might get accidentally activated and left that way, but for my personal usage, I'm not willing to pay a lot more money for this feature.


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## gottawearshades (Jul 18, 2008)

So many threads on these lights, I wasn't sure where to post this comment!

I do want to say, thanks, Selfbuilt, you reviews rock.

One of my own impressions. I purchased the EX10 a couple of weeks ago, and just recently decided to also buy a D10. The efficiency on lithiums (my AA choice - I don't work with rechargeables much) is not great, but I prefer the UI to the Fenix L1D and I thought I should have one good multimode pocket light that runs on AAs just in case some apocalypse destroys all the 123A cells.

Anyway, it's amazing how different the beams are, even though they have the same emitter and the same reflector.

The EX10 is not bad, like several other good quality Cree lights I have, with one dark ring around the hot spot but then a more-or-less-uniform corona. The D10 is butt ugly, with more dark rings and a downright splotchy corona.

I don't get it. 

So, just my $.02.


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## selfbuilt (Jul 18, 2008)

LED-holic said:


> With regards to the nimh self-protection, it would be nice to have, but for me, it's not a big priority.


FYI, for those for whom this is a priority, check out my new LiteFlux LF5XT review. 



gottawearshades said:


> The EX10 is not bad, like several other good quality Cree lights I have, with one dark ring around the hot spot but then a more-or-less-uniform corona. The D10 is butt ugly, with more dark rings and a downright splotchy corona.


Since the reflectors are identical, I'm guessing the issue is in the height adjustment of the reflector around the emitter. I've noticed a fair amount of variability among NDIs (which again use the same reflector). A pity the D10/NDI is not user adjustable.


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## underconstruction (Jul 19, 2008)

*Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*

I haven't seen any reported. I'd like to know what the current is a the lowest setting on the D10. I am really on the fence about buying this light and want to make sure that its low is low enough and not too blue.


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## HKJ (Jul 19, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



underconstruction said:


> I haven't seen any reported. I'd like to know what the current is a the lowest setting on the D10. I am really on the fence about buying this light and want to make sure that its low is low enough and not too blue.



I checked the current drain from the battery:
NiMH: 24 mA
LiIon: 7.2 mA


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## underconstruction (Jul 19, 2008)

I haven't seen anyone take a current measurement in ma of the d10 on its lowest mode. Does anyone have any data?


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## LED-holic (Jul 19, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



underconstruction said:


> I haven't seen any reported. I'd like to know what the current is a the lowest setting on the D10. I am really on the fence about buying this light and want to make sure that its low is low enough and not too blue.


The lowest low on the D10 is just about low enough for anyone I can imagine. And no blueness tint at all.

If you need lower you should buy a maglite solitaire and use it with a half dead battery. :laughing:


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## AFAustin (Jul 19, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



underconstruction said:


> I haven't seen any reported. I'd like to know what the current is a the lowest setting on the D10. I am really on the fence about buying this light and want to make sure that its low is low enough and not too blue.



I've been really pleased with the low on both my EX10 and my D10. Don't know what the current is, but it passes my real world test---works great as a read-in-bed-without-disturbing-the-sleeping-wife light. In contrast, my Fenix EO1 is too bright for that assignment. The EX10/D10 low provides a little less total output than my CMG Infinity (not Ultra), with a brighter, more defined spot and a narrower spill beam. Low is a bit dimmer on CR123As or eneloops than on li-ion cells. And, the beam is not blue.


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## Tubor (Jul 19, 2008)

I really like how the D10 has a really nice low (1/3 that of the Nitecore DI woohoo!) on normal batteries OR 14500's! That is pretty amazing really! Nice and bright too. :thumbsup:


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## kaichu dento (Jul 20, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



underconstruction said:


> I haven't seen any reported. I'd like to know what the current is a the lowest setting on the D10. I am really on the fence about buying this light and want to make sure that its low is low enough and not too blue.


About the only way to make the low setting lower would be to turn it off!


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## Tohuwabohu (Jul 20, 2008)

underconstruction said:


> I haven't seen anyone take a current measurement in ma of the d10 on its lowest mode. Does anyone have any data?



Here are some results of my EX10 on lowest setting:

```
V     mA
0.8   48
1.2   30
1.5   22
1.8   18
3.0   10.5
3.7    8.5
3.9    7
4.2    9
```


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## LED-holic (Jul 21, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



kaichu dento said:


> About the only way to make the low setting lower would be to turn it off!


I agree!!

I've left my D10 on low and not even realized it was on, because it is so low.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 21, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



LED-holic said:


> I agree!!
> 
> I've left my D10 on low and not even realized it was on, because it is so low.


Probably one of the only led light packing a punch that has a low that you can actually look at the reflector and not be blinded!


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## selfbuilt (Jul 22, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



kaichu dento said:


> Probably one of the only led light packing a punch that has a low that you can actually look at the reflector and not be blinded!


Following up on a question in my LF5XT review thread, I can match the min output levels of my various lights to my Novatac 120P in my lightbox.

My LF5XT min has almost identical output to my Novatac level #10, which is rated at 1.9 lumens.

My original NDI min was a good match to level #9, 1.3 lumens. 

And my D10/EX10 min is a good match to level #5, 0.33 lumens, or #6 0.47 lumens, depending on the battery.

Cheers! :wave:


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## m16a (Jul 22, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



selfbuilt said:


> Following up on a question in my LF5XT review thread, I can match the min output levels of my various lights to my Novatac 120P in my lightbox.
> 
> My LF5XT min has almost identical output to my Novatac level #10, which is rated at 1.9 lumens.
> 
> ...



So are you saying that the EX10/D10 low is less than a lumen? Thats amazing!!! I wonder why they rated it at 3 and 5 lumens when its a good deal lower...:shrug:


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## selfbuilt (Jul 22, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



m16a said:


> So are you saying that the EX10/D10 low is less than a lumen? Thats amazing!!! I wonder why they rated it at 3 and 5 lumens when its a good deal lower...:shrug:


That's exactly what I'm saying. 

I suspect NiteCore doesn't have access to a calibrated lumen integrative sphere to test, so they wanted to be be conservative in their numbers. But those are the corresponding output levels of these 1AA lights relative to the Novatac published specs.


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## m16a (Jul 22, 2008)

*Re: Has anyone done current measurements on the D10 lowest setting?*



selfbuilt said:


> That's exactly what I'm saying.
> 
> I suspect NiteCore doesn't have access to a calibrated lumen integrative sphere to test, so they wanted to be be conservative in their numbers. But those are the corresponding output levels of these 1AA lights relative to the Novatac published specs.



two words....

thats

amazing.


Seriously... These lights come up with something to amaze you even more every time new stuff comes up about them


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## amanichen (Jul 22, 2008)

I hate to be a pest, but any chance of a 50% output runtime of the DX10 on a NIMH?


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## selfbuilt (Jul 22, 2008)

amanichen said:


> I hate to be a pest, but any chance of a 50% output runtime of the DX10 on a NIMH?


Already done on Eneloops:







I don't plan to do any other NiMH medium runs, but you could estimate other capacity NiMH based on these. I find my eneloops have ~2100mAh capacity, according to my Maya charger.


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## amanichen (Jul 22, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> Already done on Eneloops:
> 
> I don't plan to do any other NiMH medium runs, but you could estimate other capacity NiMH based on these. I find my eneloops have ~2100mAh capacity, according to my Maya charger.


Sorry, I meant the second D10 you received, the one with the different Vf on the LED. If you don't want to or don't have time that's fine. You've already done more than your fair share of runtimes :laughing:


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## Buffalohump (Jul 23, 2008)

Just found out about these new lights now.... needed info and of course I went straight to the reviews section and hey presto, another superb review from selfbuilt!

Much appreciated as always!


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## TodToh (Jul 26, 2008)

Hi every one
I love my D10 and use it everyday but when i bought it,
the PD tail switch is silver polish colour and now it turn to
darker and darker colour.
Is this normal ?


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## jbviau (Jul 26, 2008)

TodToh, that happened to me on my first EX10. The button part of the piston is nickel-plated, and apparently the plating can tarnish in some cases. Mine became a dull brass color--kind of nice actually! It wouldn't wash off. I posted about this last week in one of the threads but didn't get any responses. As far as I know, 7777 and Nitecore haven't addressed the issue yet. In the meantime, if you google "nickel tarnish" or something like that I'm sure you'll find suggestions about how to remove the tarnish. Anyone else experience this?


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## kaichu dento (Jul 27, 2008)

I like tarnished silver and nickel.

The chain I wear has been virtually black for years from working at the hot springs. Maybe I'll try taking my PD out and put it in the rock lake!


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## cave dave (Jul 27, 2008)

This is a really great review, with so much info its practically overwhelming.. Would it be possible to get all the D10 measurements on a single graph with no other flashlights?

That way we could easier compare alk, nimh (lsd and hicap), liion to each other.


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## selfbuilt (Aug 6, 2008)

cave dave said:


> That way we could easier compare alk, nimh (lsd and hicap), liion to each other.


Just added to post #2, but here's a copy:


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## diff_lock2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Does this mean the fenix is a lot more efficient?


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## mighty82 (Aug 14, 2008)

diff_lock2 said:


> Does this mean the fenix is a lot more efficient?


Yes. Fenix lights are more efficient than most other lights, especially in lower modes because they use current regulation instead of pwm. 4sevens told us the D10 would not use pwm, but it does anyway


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## selfbuilt (Aug 14, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> Yes. Fenix lights are more efficient than most other lights, especially in lower modes because they use current regulation instead of pwm. 4sevens told us the D10 would not use pwm, but it does anyway


Quite true, it's hard to match the output/runtime efficiency of the Fenix current-controlled modes. But the flipside is that the Fenix circuitry can't do really low Lo modes - for that, you need to look at PWM lights.


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## mighty82 (Aug 14, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> Quite true, it's hard to match the output/runtime efficiency of the Fenix current-controlled modes. But the flipside is that the Fenix circuitry can't do really low Lo modes - for that, you need to look at PWM lights.


Yes, current high performance led's starts loosing efficiency when they get below about 20(?)ma. But the zebralight H50 is current regulated and can still get much lower than any fenix without loosing efficiency. Maybe it's using a combination of current regulation and pwm? No visible pwm though. :thinking:


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## 4sevens (Aug 14, 2008)

mighty82 said:


> Yes. Fenix lights are more efficient than most other lights, especially in lower modes because they use current regulation instead of pwm. 4sevens told us the D10 would not use pwm, but it does anyway


It does not use pure PWM as some lights do. It is voltage regulated in conjunction with PWM, thus the ability to run on li-ions


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## diff_lock2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Maybe I should have got a fenix 1xAA light instead of a D10. But the D10s UI seemed better.

Oh well.

At the least I ordered a L2D at the same time.


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## LED-holic (Aug 14, 2008)

diff_lock2 said:


> Maybe I should have got a fenix 1xAA light instead of a D10. ....


Why? :thinking:


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## diff_lock2 (Aug 14, 2008)

Run time at med.


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## LED-holic (Aug 15, 2008)

diff_lock2 said:


> Run time at med.


Ok thanks for the clarification.

Truth be told in practical use it's not really that noticeable. I usually ran my L1D on low or high, and partly in med. With the D10 I run min or max, and occasionally ramp to medium. Overall I haven't noticed that the D10 is drastically more power hungry than the L1D.


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## jzmtl (Aug 24, 2008)

Is there an ETA for 120P min runtime? I would imagine it will take quite some time to measure.


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## selfbuilt (Aug 24, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> Is there an ETA for 120P min runtime? I would imagine it will take quite some time to measure.


Yeah, I won't be doing that any time soon, I'm afraid.  Just too many other lights to test.


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## diff_lock2 (Aug 28, 2008)

Just got my D10, the PD system really feels solid compared to the L2D I also just got. Also what is missing from the L2D is memory. I have to cycle through the mods to get to what I want, but that is not really an issue because the cycle order seems logical.


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## Oink (Aug 28, 2008)

Eagerly soaking up useful information... Thank you very much. I have a D10 coming, but am holding the order for a L2D/L1D until it gets here.


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## eebowler (Sep 24, 2008)

selfbuilt: Thank you  :bow:

Reading up on the D10, I thought it was my fantasy light become reality. I'm still in awe at the greatness of the D10 and still lusts after it but, will have to hold back those desires for now as your runtime plots revealed to me that the D10 doesn't compare too well against the L1D in high and medium modes even though they are at about the same output levels. Though I have rechargeables, I do desire high efficiency and the ability to have 'decent' runtimes on alkalines and the D10 doesn't seem to be there as yet 

Thanks again for all your efforts.


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## DualMonitors (Sep 24, 2008)

eebowler said:


> selfbuilt: Thank you  :bow:
> 
> Reading up on the D10, I thought it was my fantasy light become reality. I'm still in awe at the greatness of the D10 and still lusts after it but, will have to hold back those desires for now as your runtime plots revealed to me that the D10 doesn't compare too well against the L1D in high and medium modes even though they are at about the same output levels. Though I have rechargeables, I do desire high efficiency and the ability to have 'decent' runtimes on alkalines and the D10 doesn't seem to be there as yet
> 
> Thanks again for all your efforts.




Mmm... selfbuilt: as these are plots of the D10 with the Q5, these run times would not apply to the Golden Dragon Plus, right? so if one were to be considering the D10GDP versus the L1DQ5, it would be still more or less an "unknown"?

or, would you suggest that the run times of the D10GDP would be very similar to the D10Q5 so the L1DQ5 is still way way ahead as your graphs show?

thx in advance for doing so much hard work for all of our benefit!


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## Marduke (Sep 24, 2008)

DualMonitors said:


> Mmm... selfbuilt: as these are plots of the D10 with the Q5, these run times would not apply to the Golden Dragon Plus, right? so if one were to be considering the D10GDP versus the L1DQ5, it would be still more or less an "unknown"?
> 
> or, would you suggest that the run times of the D10GDP would be very similar to the D10Q5 so the L1DQ5 is still way way ahead as your graphs show?
> 
> thx in advance for doing so much hard work for all of our benefit!



Ask and yee shall receive
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/206986

You can translate between the D10GDP to the D10Q5 or NDI to L1DQ5 between the two reviews.


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## selfbuilt (Sep 24, 2008)

Marduke said:


> Ask and yee shall receive
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/206986


Thanks Marduke, you beat me to it. 

I just realized I should add that link to the first post, to make it easier to find. Thanks for the reminder!

Cheers!


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## vitekboi (Sep 26, 2008)

i know this is a dumb question but, are the high outputs only showing about 50-60 lumens for all the flashlights on eneloops?


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## selfbuilt (Sep 26, 2008)

vitekboi said:


> i know this is a dumb question but, are the high outputs only showing about 50-60 lumens for all the flashlights on eneloops?


No, it's a good question. 

My output values are not lumens but rather relative output values for my home-made milk carton "integrating sphere" (with a light meter stuck inside). 

I have calibrated my setup against the defined output lumens of my Novatac 120P. As long as you believe the Novatac is indeed 120 lumens on max, then you can covert my scale using the formula described in my post here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2531171&postcount=2

Simply put, 50-60 on my scale would appear to be ~100-120 estimated lumens.


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## DualMonitors (Sep 27, 2008)

quite a newbie here, so pardon please my elementary question. as much as i admire the NiteCore D10GDP, as well as the more spread out beam as opposed to the D10Q5's beam, i cannot help but feel seriously disappointed that the battery run times of the D10 is rather poor compared with others of the same ilk.

that said, i did order mine already, yet, it is a fair comparison with its peers and i don't see why others are not also disappointed as well to some degree.

run time is a high priority parameter, much as lumens and beam patterns are. it is not a detail or a minor item. a company who is as detailed oriented as NiteCore should think long and hard about getting run times in the area of, say the top 25th percentiles?

is that a fair thing to expect? again, i bought one but these feelings continue to linger. of course, there is no perfect light for everything, but having run times that are relatively poor compared with peers is just something that i didn't expect from this company.

hope i'm being fair and not overly negative.


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## selfbuilt (Sep 27, 2008)

DualMonitors said:


> quite a newbie here, so pardon please my elementary question. as much as i admire the NiteCore D10GDP, as well as the more spread out beam as opposed to the D10Q5's beam, i cannot help but feel seriously disappointed that the battery run times of the D10 is rather poor compared with others of the same ilk.
> 
> that said, i did order mine already, yet, it is a fair comparison with its peers and i don't see why others are not also disappointed as well to some degree.


Actually, compared to its class of continuously-variable lights, the D10 is actually pretty standard or ahead of the curve. If you check out my other reviews, you'll see the D10-Q5 efficiency is pretty much the same as the LF5XT and the ITP C7, and a bit more output/runtime efficient than the JetBeam 1AA IBS lights. I grant you my D10-GDP seems somewhat less efficient, but that's a reflection of the emitter.

I imagine you are referring to the Fenix L1D? It's not really a fair comparison, since Fenix uses an optimized current-controlled circuit that only has a handful of output states compared to the hundred of possible D10 outputs. Also, the Fenix can go anywhere near as low as the D10 or the other PWM-based lights.

It's really a question of the feature set. If you want continuously-variable with true lows, you need to go for PWM (which is less efficient than current-controlled). If you want the best runtime, you'll need to go with a light that's been optimized for a few specific levels (e.g. Fenix, Olight, etc.).

And it's a good point to raise - on their own, runtime graphs give the misleading impression that the continuously-variable lights are substandard. They aren't, just differently optimized.


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## ironhorse (Sep 29, 2008)

I received my EX10 GD Plus, Saturday. It took me a couple of days to get used to the UI, but now it is second nature. 
I am used to using a mini mag with 3 led or my 3d mag.
I love the low setting, and I took it out at night and shined it on my neighbors garage and it has as much throw as my 3d mag does.
This light has a new home in my pocket and I could not be happier with it.
One thing I did not want is strobe, sos or anything like that.


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## cheetokhan (Sep 29, 2008)

ironhorse said:


> I received my EX10 GD Plus, Saturday. It took me a couple of days to get used to the UI, but now it is second nature.
> I am used to using a mini mag with 3 led or my 3d mag.
> I love the low setting, and I took it out at night and shined it on my neighbors garage and it has as much throw as my 3d mag does.
> This light has a new home in my pocket and I could not be happier with it.
> One thing I did not want is strobe, sos or anything like that.



I'll see your bet and raise you one- tailstanding!
I like my EX10 for everything you just said and the fact that it tailstands so perfectly. I'd really like to see more lights with the flat metal tailswitch design. 
I've seen a few other people state that they like the old fashioned rubber covered switch better, but my thumb very much prefers the EX10 Piston Drive.


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## kaichu dento (Sep 29, 2008)

ironhorse said:


> I received my EX10 GD Plus, Saturday. It took me a couple of days to get used to the UI, but now it is second nature.
> I am used to using a mini mag with 3 led or my 3d mag.
> I love the low setting, and I took it out at night and shined it on my neighbors garage and it has as much throw as my 3d mag does.
> This light has a new home in my pocket and I could not be happier with it.
> One thing I did not want is strobe, sos or anything like that.


Plus you forgot to mention how much better it fits in your pocket than the 3d mag! :twothumbs


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## ironhorse (Sep 30, 2008)

kaichu dento said:


> Plus you forgot to mention how much better it fits in your pocket than the 3d mag! :twothumbs


Yes, I have never done that. My EX10 is with me ALL the time.


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## litetube (Sep 30, 2008)

Oh how I wish I could go back to that glorious day when I went from a minimag to my first high performance light. You know it has never been as good as that day. Does anyone else remember? I find now though I still enjoy getting the latest and greatest, I am never wowed ,amazed and thrilled like I was that night so long ago ......
The EX10/D10 series came pretty close though:thumbsup:


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## ironhorse (Oct 1, 2008)

litetube said:


> Oh how I wish I could go back to that glorious day when I went from a minimag to my first high performance light. You know it has never been as good as that day. Does anyone else remember? I find now though I still enjoy getting the latest and greatest, I am never wowed ,amazed and thrilled like I was that night so long ago ......
> The EX10/D10 series came pretty close though:thumbsup:


Remember. Do I ever. Well it has not been a week yet.:huh:


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## kaichu dento (Oct 1, 2008)

litetube said:


> Oh how I wish I could go back to that glorious day when I went from a minimag to my first high performance light. You know it has never been as good as that day. Does anyone else remember? I find now though I still enjoy getting the latest and greatest, I am never wowed ,amazed and thrilled like I was that night so long ago ......
> The EX10/D10 series came pretty close though:thumbsup:


I remember being just blown away by all the Maglite products, until the incredibly disappointing Solitaire came out... :mecry:

Then I got a Zero Gravity 1xAAA, then an L0D Q4, both of which sent my over the top! :twothumbs


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## FsTop (Oct 7, 2008)

One minus with these lights is the included lanyard, which pretty much sux.

The clip on it barely fits into the holes in the tailcap, prevents it from easily tail-standing, chews up the anodizing, pokes you when it is in a pocket, and is generally a useless PITA. It's a throwaway, IMHO. 

It would be much better if it had a thin attachment cord instead of the clip, as JetBeam includes with their lights.


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## geek4christ (Oct 9, 2008)

FsTop said:


> One minus with these lights is the included lanyard, which pretty much sux.
> 
> The clip on it barely fits into the holes in the tailcap, prevents it from easily tail-standing, chews up the anodizing, pokes you when it is in a pocket, and is generally a useless PITA. It's a throwaway, IMHO.
> 
> It would be much better if it had a thin attachment cord instead of the clip, as JetBeam includes with their lights.



I actually really like the lanyard. I like the high-quality clip and the adjuster on it. Keeps me from dropping it while walking.

I know some people are getting around some of the issues you mentioned with the clip by using a small split ring to attach it to the light.


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## selfbuilt (Oct 9, 2008)

geek4christ said:


> I actually really like the lanyard. I like the high-quality clip and the adjuster on it. Keeps me from dropping it while walking.
> 
> I know some people are getting around some of the issues you mentioned with the clip by using a small split ring to attach it to the light.


Likewise here - I also find the lanyard to be of high quality, but the attachment point in not useful (similar problem with the original NDI). A small split ring is the best way to attach it.


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## FsTop (Oct 10, 2008)

A even better way to attach a lanyard is to replace it with one that came with my JetBeam MkIBS. It has a thin nylon cord that doesn't interfere with the button.

Don't get me wrong, I like the D10 a LOT, but if the lanyard requires a small split ring, one should have been included, IMHO.


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## gorkon (Oct 16, 2008)

First off, great review (as always!).

I just received my D10 GDP and I am very impressed with this light. I posted my comments about the GDP in the LED Flashlights forum (EX10 GDP....) so I won't go into that here.

However, the PD system is unique and the light is very well built. I do have inductor whine on max, which I can hear very clearly, but otherwise, this light will get a lot of use for the following reasons:

1) Momentary operation (great for night walking)
2) One handed brightness operation. Just used this feature in the closet, looking for my lanyard material and I could easily set the light level I needed quickly.
3) Memory function
4) Quiet switch (no clicks)
5) Simple but functional UI. I adapted to it in about 5 mins.
6) One of the smallest AA's around (I'll be running eneloops exclusively)

I highly recommend this series of lights and I've had/have many. I will continue to use my Fenix's (LODCE will remain my EDC) and beloved Arc LSH-P, but this light is right up there with the best.


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## GarageBoy (Oct 24, 2008)

How is everyone carrying their Nitecore PDs?


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## kaichu dento (Oct 24, 2008)

GarageBoy said:


> How is everyone carrying their Nitecore PDs?


In my back pocket with a bit of nylon string hanging out to grab onto. Tried it with a clip and didn't take but a couple hours before I snagged it on something and flipped it out of my pocket. :shrug:

The clip is probably fine for most people, but if you're really active the string out of the pocket is great for retrieval. :twothumbs


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## bluecrow76 (Oct 24, 2008)

GarageBoy said:


> How is everyone carrying their Nitecore PDs?



Nitecore D10 in an Inova X1 holster. It's the same thing I used to carry my Fenix L1D in.

EDIT: Another thread should probably be started to talk about this so we don't hijack this review thread.


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## selfbuilt (Oct 24, 2008)

bluecrow76 said:


> EDIT: Another thread should probably be started to talk about this so we don't hijack this review thread.


Don't worry about it - carry info is good to have in the thread. For what its worth, I carry my PD10 in the original Fenix 1AA-size flashlight holster (the original model, not the new LD10 style with a flap). 

I've used this same style holster over the years for all my 1AA EDC carry lights - NDI, Rexlight, JetBeam MK & CLEs, etc.


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## Brangdon (Oct 25, 2008)

I keep my D10 loose in my front left pocket, next to my mobile phone and keyring. (The phone has a screen protector, and I'm not otherwise overly precious about scratches.)

The supplied lanyard is too bulky for me to carry EDC. I've removed the clip and attached it to a loop of paracord inner thread, for a home-made lanyard. This is thin enough that I can carry it in my wallet, in a coin compartment, and attach it when I need it. I don't usually bother. (One drawback is that I don't have any break-away safety feature; copy this at your own risk.)

Initially I kept the torch in "momentary on" twisted out mode. I'm now carrying it in screwed-in mode. I suspect it won't switch itself on accidentally, but it if does, I'll notice just before I go to bed (because I keep it on a bedside table overnight), and it should be on the dimmest setting so shouldn't have flattened the battery. I'm using Eneloops so I don't mind if I waste some of the charge.


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## JohnnyDeep (Oct 25, 2008)

I carry the EX10 with the new pocket clip and a short lanyard loop attached to the clip, the same way I carry the McLux lights.


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## brighterisbetter (Nov 1, 2008)

Thanks selfbuilt for this review. I'm finally keychaining an EX10. Boy, I forgot how nice the hotspot-to-spill beam transition of a Novatac can be, I almost regret selling mine now.


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## selfbuilt (Nov 1, 2008)

brighterisbetter said:


> Thanks selfbuilt for this review. I'm finally keychaining an EX10. Boy, I forgot how nice the hotspot-to-spill beam transition of a Novatac can be, I almost regret selling mine now.


The SSC beam is hard to replace. If the Cree rings get to you, the GDP version of the EX10/D10 is very nice.


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## EngrPaul (Nov 1, 2008)

D10 with official NiteCore pocketclip:


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## srvctec (Nov 3, 2008)

Excellent review as always selfbuilt!:thumbsup:

Soooo, after all this time since the review, do you like the D10 enough to EDC it over the NDI or do you still EDC the NDI? The reason I ask is I have EDCed my NDI since I got it in December of last year and use it daily. For me, it's the perfect light in that I can adjust the output to whatever I like and know exactly what level it will come on in (head loosened- my chosen level, head tightened- high). However, I've been following the D10 since it was announced and have thought I might want one because of the reliability of the PD system. One almost doesn't need momentary on when it's so easy to just click on, click off with the D10.

My only concern and hesitation for getting a D10 is the fact that it doesn't/can't come on at the same level every time like my NDI, it just comes on at the last level used. At first I thought this would be a deal breaker for me, but now am not so sure. For one thing, the D10 has a much lower low, which I think would be nice. And all level changing can be done with one hand, which is another nice feature.

Your thoughts on my dilemma would be appreciated!

Keep up the good work!


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## selfbuilt (Nov 3, 2008)

srvctec said:


> Soooo, after all this time since the review, do you like the D10 enough to EDC it over the NDI or do you still EDC the NDI? ... For one thing, the D10 has a much lower low, which I think would be nice. And all level changing can be done with one hand, which is another nice feature.


Although I have carried a number of lights on me as EDC when testing, I now default to the D10 GDP as my main EDC.

Like you, I was a fan of the NDI interface, and had many of the same concerns about switching for the D10. But I find I really like the lower low and ability to ramp one-handed. This really compensates for not having the same preset at all times - it's very easy to adjust. In fact, typically I ramp it back down to low before turning off, so that it always comes on this way. And the shortcuts to min and max are also extremely useful.

As for the Cree vs GDP, I could go either way - but I tend to prefer the smooth beam of the GDP for around the house stuff at night.

Hope that helps!


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## srvctec (Nov 3, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> As for the Cree vs GDP, I could go either way - but I tend to prefer the smooth beam of the GDP for around the house stuff at night.
> 
> Hope that helps!



It *does* help- thanks! I read your review on the GDP, but still think I'll go with the Cree since I'm
not bothered by the cree rings.

Thanks again!


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## jdong (Nov 3, 2008)

Just as an update, I got my D10-GDP over the weekend, and had some time to play around with it.

I really do like the beam -- its smoothness is great, and I can't take good enough images to do it justice. When next to my OLight T15 (Q5) the smoothness does make a big difference. I think it's fair to say the pattern resembles that of those SSC P4 lights like the LumaPower LM31/LM33's.

Does it make a difference? IMO yes, particularly at lower brightness levels, when you're trying to illuminate things close by (i.e. looking for something you lost), it's much more usable than the Cree pattern. However, the hotspot doesn't hold as tightly as the Cree and if you're trying to throw long distances, the Cree will beat it hands-down. However, IMO as an EDC close-range illumination is the name of the game. When driven at max compared to a Cree driven at max, IMO the GDP's color rendition is a bit warmer and more "realistic" though it's hard to discern that difference on photo. Also, there is NO blueness or purpleness at any level in my testing.

Something odd that maybe a light guru can shed some... light... on, when whitewall hunting the Cree looks "warmer" tinted than the GDP, which looks really cool white. However, when shining like a wood surface or something else colorful, the GDP seems to display its colors much more realistically while the Q5's portrayal looks somewhat pale.


As far as inductor whine, it is present on highest on NIMH, disappears about two steps down from highest. No big deal to me -- I am pretty sensitive to high pitched noises but this doesn't bother me at all unless I hold the light right up to my ears on max brightness. I find myself mostly using around 75% brightness anyway so it's less of a deal.

The UI is great -- by far the best light UI I've used so far. Easy to switch, rapid switching on and off doesn't activate some secret hidden SOS mode, fully one-handed operation. The grip is also very great -- the knurling is perfect. IMO the D10 is just the right size -- I would imagine the EX10 too small to confidently grasp.

Oh yeah, so far I haven't found any quirkiness with the piston-drive on the factory lube.


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## lebox97 (Nov 7, 2008)

awesome job!

any chance you have same "all battery type" charts for LOW mode?




selfbuilt said:


> Per request, here are the runtimes for first D10 sample for all battery types on one graph:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## selfbuilt (Nov 7, 2008)

lebox97 said:


> any chance you have same "all battery type" charts for LOW mode?


No, I don't typically do low modes on anything other than Li-ion, if that. Low modes are problematic to do because they tie up the lightbox too long, and would damage any NiMH cells by letting them run down to zero (I watch the Med-Hi runs to stop them before that happens).


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## JackJ (Nov 7, 2008)

Thanks so much for these incredibly detailed reviews! I've purchased a D10 based on your work, and I'm very happy with it.

While I almost hate to point it out, I see a small typo in the chart below. Looks like the 50% runtime on 14500 should read "2 hr 42 min to 50%"

I only noticed because I'm awaiting my first 14500 cells and wanted to get a glimpse of the performance. 

I'm about to PayPal your battery fund--I'm glad there's a way I can support your work for our community.

Thanks again!

Jack



selfbuilt said:


>


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## selfbuilt (Nov 7, 2008)

JackJ said:


> While I almost hate to point it out, I see a small typo in the chart below. Looks like the 50% runtime on 14500 should read "2 hr 42 min to 50%"
> 
> I'm about to PayPal your battery fund--I'm glad there's a way I can support your work for our community.


Thanks for spotting that - just fixed it (press your browser reload to see the updated graph).

And thanks for considering my paypal battery fund! :wave:


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## lebox97 (Nov 7, 2008)

understandable...
what about doing for one alkaline?
it would be helpful to know how long it will stay in regulation+ if needed (cave or wilderness survival, etc)




selfbuilt said:


> No, I don't typically do low modes on anything other than Li-ion, if that. Low modes are problematic to do because they tie up the lightbox too long, and would damage any NiMH cells by letting them run down to zero (I watch the Med-Hi runs to stop them before that happens).


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## bluecrow76 (Nov 7, 2008)

Chevrofreak already did a bunch of runtimes on all these different batteries as well. Use the link below:
*Nitecore D10 and EX10 runtimes *


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## bluecrow76 (Nov 7, 2008)

Between selfbuilt's review and chevrofreak's runtime tests, I was convinced I NEEDED one... of each! :twothumbs


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## lebox97 (Nov 7, 2008)

ahhh - WOW!

*D10 LOW (from Chevrofreak chart) *
Energizer E2 Lithium "6 days 2 hours 42 minutes 52 seconds to 50%"
Duracell Ultra "4 days 11 hours 30 minutes 41 seconds to 50%"
Duracell 2650mAh NiMH "4 days 4 hours 1 minute 15 seconds to 50%"
AW 750mAh protected 14500 "4 days 1 hour 27 minutes 22 seconds to 50%"

SWEET!



bluecrow76 said:


> Chevrofreak already did a bunch of runtimes on all these different batteries as well. Use the link below:
> *Nitecore D10 and EX10 runtimes *


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## selfbuilt (Nov 7, 2008)

lebox97 said:


> ahhh - WOW!


Yeah, Chevro's detailed runtimes are very useful - we generally get close agreement on results.

FYI, I am doing an impromptu non-lightbox low mode runtime of the 2AA D20 on regular duracell alkalines (sitting in my closet as a night light). It's been running for almost 10 days straight now, and still going. Since the D20 low mode is about the same as the D10, I expect we are probably getting toward the end of its run ... we'll see.


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## jdong (Nov 9, 2008)

Interesting observation on the D10-GDP: When running off NIMH, the inductor whine on high stops just about 15 minutes before the light would lose regulation and rapidly drop down to its 'moon' intensity (on high) -- ironically enough I'm finding it to be a bonus battery indication feature! If there's one thing to complain about with these really nicely regulated lights, they get too close to the bright-bright-bright-POOF behavior near the end of their runtime


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## srvctec (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks selfbuilt for your input regarding the concerns I had about going from an NDI to the D10 as EDC (a few posts up). I've had it for 3 weeks and absolutely love it! The one handed brightness adjustment makes it better than the NDI and the clip is also a nice added accessory. *Really* glad I got one. I retired my NDI to my briefcase in the event something should happen to my D10 while at work, I'll have a fantastic main EDC backup.


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## Long RunTime (Jan 4, 2009)

primox1 said:


> WHOOAAAAA...what a killer review.
> Thanks for all your *hard work*!!!!!!!
> 
> :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


+1, bought my EX 10 after reading this. Now got the NDI stuck in my mind


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## wiktor (Jan 26, 2009)

newbie here.... and i've been scratching my head for a few weeks with a small problem.

I got a SmartPD D10 about a month ago and it appeared to be everything I had been looking for in a flashlight. Small, bright, AA instead of CR123A. Strangest thing has been happening though... after a week or so, the battery is dead. The only reason this is strange is because I haven't been using the flashlight. It's not like I've been leaving it on and forgetting about it, it really just dies after a week. A new battery and it works great (for a week). I'm thinking that either a) I am needing to monkey with the thing or b) something it busted with it and I need to send it in for a replacement.

Any of you smart cats have any advice?

Thanks in advance.


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## 2manybikes (Jan 26, 2009)

wiktor said:


> newbie here.... and i've been scratching my head for a few weeks with a small problem.
> 
> I got a SmartPD D10 about a month ago and it appeared to be everything I had been looking for in a flashlight. Small, bright, AA instead of CR123A. Strangest thing has been happening though... after a week or so, the battery is dead. The only reason this is strange is because I haven't been using the flashlight. It's not like I've been leaving it on and forgetting about it, it really just dies after a week. A new battery and it works great (for a week). I'm thinking that either a) I am needing to monkey with the thing or b) something it busted with it and I need to send it in for a replacement.
> 
> ...


 
Exactly what kind of battery are you using ? Is it stored at room temperature?


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## wiktor (Jan 27, 2009)

I use regular old alkaline AA's; they are readily available and free to me. I know I'm not going to get quite the same life out of the batteries but I'm not using the flashlight before it goes "dead."

As far as temp, it my EDC so the Florida "winters" throw harsh temperatures in the 70-45 degree range at the light.


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## 4sevens (Jan 27, 2009)

wiktor said:


> I use regular old alkaline AA's; they are readily available and free to me. I know I'm not going to get quite the same life out of the batteries but I'm not using the flashlight before it goes "dead."
> 
> As far as temp, it my EDC so the Florida "winters" throw harsh temperatures in the 70-45 degree range at the light.


Are you storing it in "momentary" mode (head backed off 1/4 turn after off)
or "clicky" mode? The clicky mode will draw a very very small amount of current.
Also, what brand AA alkalines?


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## wiktor (Jan 27, 2009)

Nope.. wasn't storing it a 1/4 turn. Will do now. Battery brands have varied; once with a Duracell and once with some generic Kodak battery. Like I said, I get them for free and I understand that some have more juice than others but either way, I'd assume it would last more than a week or so before it dies especially considering I don't really use it.


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## HKJ (Jan 27, 2009)

wiktor said:


> Nope.. wasn't storing it a 1/4 turn. Will do now. Battery brands have varied; once with a Duracell and once with some generic Kodak battery. Like I said, I get them for free and I understand that some have more juice than others but either way, I'd assume it would last more than a week or so before it dies especially considering I don't really use it.



Your have to be careful with this kind of high power light, it can drain a new AA battery in about 20 minutes and a old AA might not be able to sustain full power for more than a few minutes.
The standby drain on this light will takes months to drain a battery. Try setting the light on low power and turn it off with a press. Then check once a day if it still has power, if it only last a week or two, you light has a fault.


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## wiktor (Jan 27, 2009)

Will try; thanks for the advice. Does storing it when it backed off a 1/4 turn make a much bigger difference in power consumption (or lack there of)?


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## 2manybikes (Jan 27, 2009)

wiktor said:


> Nope.. wasn't storing it a 1/4 turn. Will do now. Battery brands have varied; once with a Duracell and once with some generic Kodak battery. Like I said, I get them for free and I understand that some have more juice than others but either way, I'd assume it would last more than a week or so before it dies especially considering I don't really use it.


 
How many times did this happen to you? 

Are you 100% sure the free batteries are not used or old? I have had brand new alkalines lose a lot in about a year.


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## HKJ (Jan 28, 2009)

wiktor said:


> Will try; thanks for the advice. Does storing it when it backed off a 1/4 turn make a much bigger difference in power consumption (or lack there of)?



i do not have my numbers here, but when it is sufficient backed off, the standby power is zero.
If you are using the light often, there is no reason to back it off, but if your only use it occasional and expect the batteries for last more than 1/2 year, your need to back it off.


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## wiktor (Jan 29, 2009)

Yeah the batteries are issued from the paraloft (supply department for the unenlightened). Brand new, never used. Like I said, it's happened twice.

HKJ, I agree, it shouldn't be much. Plus, by keeping in my pocket backed off (I have to back it off about 3/4 of a turn to have it in momentary mode), I get a great deal more grit into the threads. I'm trying to keep the parts that need to be clean, clean.


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## hdiller (Jan 30, 2009)

I am new to the forum and found this review excellent. Thank you for taking the time to conduct the comparison. It has validated my opinion on the D10.


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## jdong (Feb 9, 2009)

A two-months-into-ownership (or a bit more) report on my D10-GDP, I still love it. I just had a bit of a connectivity issue last week; the positive battery contact on the head was corroded a bit. I'm not sure if that's just because I've been using it quite heavily, but a bit of deoxit fixed it up quite nicely.

I also at the same time wiped out the initial deoxit lubing I did and applied a fresh thin coat, and the difference in the switch action was VERY noticeable.


I'd have to conclude that this flashlight especially is not a zero-maintenance flashlight (well, no flashlight really is). Some periodic cleaning/re-lubing is needed to keep it running in tip-top shape.


Overall of all the flashlights I own, this is my favorite unit by far. In fact the only one I can honestly say after 2 weeks of EDC with keys and other objects, looks every bit like new.


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## cave dave (Feb 28, 2009)

another ~3 month user report in.

Mine D10 worked well straight out of the box so I never relubed it at the time like many did. I did add writeright to the lens to tame the cree, I don't mind the loss in throw.

For the first months of ownership I would often not get the double clicks fast enough and just though it was my slow hands and the UI required response time was a bit to fast. Well just for kicks the other day I took it apart and relubed it with "Dupont 100% Teflon Drivetrain Lubricant". Wow! The improvement in the switch action was spectacular. Since the button rebounds faster it is much easier for me to get the double-clicks fast enough for the UI.

The link above is to some old catalog specs, I believe it was discontinued years ago. The "drivetrain" version is thicker than an oil but thinner than a grease. I use the grease version on threads and O-rings. But the thinner "Drivetrain" is great for the Piston!

I also did a brightness comparison of low and high to various levels on my new RA clicky. The Ra is supposed to be calibrated OTF lumens.

Using Ra levels as comparison:
D10 on max = about 90 lm with eneloop
D10 on lowest = about 0.7 lm


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## bullfrog (Feb 28, 2009)

cave dave said:


> I also did a brightness comparison of low and high to various levels on my new RA clicky. The Ra is supposed to be calibrated OTF lumens.
> 
> Using Ra levels as comparison:
> D10 on max = about 90 lm with eneloop
> D10 on lowest = about 0.7 lm



Glad to hear you are enjoying the D10 - just orered one last night and also thinking of picking up a Ra Clicky tactical this week so a comparison is great.

Looking at comparing the output - so the Ra blows the D10 away? Which model were you using?

Thanks!


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## Ty4752 (Mar 5, 2009)

Deleted.


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## TNYankee (May 27, 2009)

New member, here. I just wanted to say "thanks" to all those posting their D10 experiences here. I just received mine a couple days ago, and am quite happy with it. After reading the post above about slow double & triple clicks being solved by a different lube, I think I may try that after using it for a few more weeks. Good idea!


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## AFAustin (May 28, 2009)

Double post ("Database Error")


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## AFAustin (May 28, 2009)

Welcome to CPF, TNY. Hope you enjoy yourself around here, and don't forget to......hold onto your wallet!


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## burntoshine (Aug 14, 2009)

can anyone out there help me find some good NON-SILICONE o-rings for the piston on my Nitecore EX10 Q5?

more info on my problem here. read post #37

help is much appreciated!!


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## Rion (Aug 14, 2009)

HKJ said:


> Your have to be careful with this kind of high power light, it can drain a new AA battery in about 20 minutes and a old AA might not be able to sustain full power for more than a few minutes.
> The standby drain on this light will takes months to drain a battery. Try setting the light on low power and turn it off with a press. Then check once a day if it still has power, if it only last a week or two, you light has a fault.



I have this draining problem from the day I bought it, kept changing new batt. Standby at most last 1 week. Yes, I know, very bad. I have always been wondering till now. Long time since I last search around for solutions about this problem.

How long is the warranty? Wonder if i can get RMA.

Edit: Found warranty length, 1 year from purchase.


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