# MAG BORING-I BUILT MY OWN MILL-PICT!



## Northern Lights (Jul 17, 2007)

I did not like being dependent on only one or two people willing to bore Mag Lights. Besides the cost is noticeable. Locally no machinist was up to the job without wanting their pockets lined with gold, and some had outlandish explanations of what was required to mill the familiar bi, tri and quad channels.

I had hand bored a quad once. It was a lot of work and looks uneven but the light functions. So I bought a cross vise, $45, some metal, bolts and nuts, $35 and an expensive cutter $39. I had the drill. I got a single purpose-milling machine for about $120.
Post #21 below has all the pictures click here or scroll down


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## Raoul_Duke (Jul 18, 2007)

Wow, Thats Cool.

What size Mag can the cross vice go up to, or can you do it in stages?


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## Northern Lights (Jul 18, 2007)

Raoul_Duke said:


> Wow, Thats Cool.
> 
> What size Mag can the cross vice go up to, or can you do it in stages?


It easily does 2D, Should be able to do 3D and would have to stage it a little for a 4D.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 18, 2007)

WOW, now that's awsome. I'm not quite getting how you get the grooves so even. The light body goes in the vise? Then are you sliding over a long bit so it takes out the groove from the side of the bit? Seems like the long bit or the tube would vibrate....but that is a hell of a result. 

I'd love to get a better idea how you did all the part of this.


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## koala (Jul 18, 2007)

Wow I like this kinda of stuff, we need more pictures! very cool!


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## Northern Lights (Jul 18, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> WOW, now that's awsome. I'm not quite getting how you get the grooves so even. The light body goes in the vise? Then are you sliding over a long bit so it takes out the groove from the side of the bit? Seems like the long bit or the tube would vibrate....but that is a hell of a result.
> 
> I'd love to get a better idea how you did all the part of this.


The frame is obviously just rectangular frame. The cross-slide vise can positioned anywhere on it. the two end posts are threaded. A 1/2 inch bar transversses the end posts. The bar floats inside two 1/2 square tube connectore that ride on the end posts. Elevation is set with nuts on the posts. One end bar has offset a brass tube as a bearing for the extension shaft. A second bearing floats on the cross bar (in red) and can be secured in position with a lock screw. The mag tube goes over the cutter and cross bar; the cross bar and cutter are inside the mag tube. Then it is all positioned on the vice. Mag tube is hand indexed in the vice. Cranking the cutter into the wall cuts the Mag tube. The length of cut is determined by cranking the "y" axix crank. Releasing the jaws and backing off the cut allows you to turn the tube to index the next cut. The cutting shaft has some stroke movement, determined by the location of the second bearing.
Buiding it was actually pretty quick.. This is the second version. 1st version held a Dremel extension cutter. Not enough torque with that. I let the cross bar float with the Dremel and used hand pressure to determine stroke and depth. Final version the vice does it and that is what I first imagined anyway.
The trick is to set the vice jaw edges parallel with the cross bar. Second feat of engineering was making the bearing parallel to the cross bar and perfectly aligned to each other. They are soldered to their slides. The cutter is expensive and is 19mm in diameter, same as any "A" cell.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 18, 2007)

I just realized why it does not vibrate! No matter how well I center the cutter in the extension shaft, it is always a little off-center. So for every rotation it only takes a small bite. It is the same principle as a mill cutter that cuts on the tip of a bit on part of the rotation.


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## Aircraft800 (Jul 18, 2007)

WOW! 

I can't believe how straight your cuts are! I can't believe the tool doesn't drift more. I guess aluminum is pretty soft anyway.

Nice Job, you could probably sell a few of these here, or your services.


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## wquiles (Jul 18, 2007)

Very clever - nice job 

Will


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## Icebreak (Jul 19, 2007)

The bores look accurate. I'll chime in a +1 on the crafty nature of the device. A few more attached production pad modules and you will be able to build custom motorcycles and rocket launched gliders.

No kidding, I like simple solutions that work well and are built with a minimum of finance. :thumbsup:

- Jeff


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## Northern Lights (Jul 19, 2007)

Icebreak said:


> The bores look accurate. I'll chime in a +1 on the crafty nature of the device. A few more attached production pad modules and you will be able to build custom motorcycles and rocket launched gliders.
> 
> No kidding, I like simple solutions that work well and are built with a minimum of finance. :thumbsup:
> 
> - Jeff


I experimented with an old body I have here. Then did the 2D you see. I was still learning the peculiarities of the machine, e.g. alignment, indexing, depth of cut, etc. There are imperfections due to my inexperience, evenson the job looks acceptable and my 9x GP 2000 pack fit into it. Next one should even be better now I understand its working better.


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## PEU (Jul 19, 2007)

very nice machine!

TIP: If you want more rigidity, make the axe as short as possible.


Pablo


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## Northern Lights (Jul 19, 2007)

PEU said:


> very nice machine!
> 
> TIP: If you want more rigidity, make the axe as short as possible.
> 
> ...


That is what the floating second bearing allows me to do. I can move it and use the lock screw to secure it. The distance from that bearing to the cutter is the most minimal, I can bring it up to the point the shart starts to flare. That added the rigidity. One test run was done before I added it and it was obvious the shaft had vibration and wobble so I immediately added the second bearing. I aligned it to the original bearing on the shaft then soldered it to its carrier.


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## Ledean (Jul 20, 2007)

Very innovative job. 
Still not sure if I understand it totally.Would appreciate a few more pictures.
Ledean


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## scott.cr (Jul 22, 2007)

You're a maniac dude! I love it!! Hahaha...

With a $29 spin index this machine might have been even cheaper and more accurate, but you'd still need to clamp the end of the light opposite the end in the spin index (simple).


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## PhotonAddict (Jul 22, 2007)

I apologize for the OT question, but what is a spin index jig used for?



scott.cr said:


> You're a maniac dude! I love it!! Hahaha...
> 
> With a $29 spin index this machine might have been even cheaper and more accurate, but you'd still need to clamp the end of the light opposite the end in the spin index (simple).


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## ddaadd (Jul 22, 2007)

I have to ask if your family looks on in bewilderment as you craft your device?

Not understanding your flashlight hobby in the first place, much less the 
lengths you are willing to go to pursue your passion?

Pay no attention as they huddle and whisper looking at you, as you have
truly arrived as one of us.....:naughty:

+1 with an "atta boy"

:twothumbs


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## Northern Lights (Jul 22, 2007)

scott.cr said:


> You're a maniac dude! I love it!! Hahaha...
> 
> With a $29 spin index this machine might have been even cheaper and more accurate, but you'd still need to clamp the end of the light opposite the end in the spin index (simple).


That is reasonably priced. I imagine you are suggesting indexing the light body in the spin index and putting the index into the cross slide vice. I actually was looking at a spin index that was cross slide capable, but it was too pricey.
You obviously realize that the spin index on a cross slide mounted on a lathe bed would be ideal. It would have to be offset to the center head. Depending on how stable you could hold the cutting shaft in the jaws would determine whether you would need the rail that extends through the light. That was the main problem several machine shops had with the concept of turning this project. None could figure how to hold the cutter stable. One agreed with my suggestion of stablizing the cutter by having in on a shaft that went from chuck to a bearing point on the other end of the light. Or you could build additional bearings for the shaft on a rail going through the light if making a cutter in the center of a shaft is too expensive. 
Well, that idea is what you see in my "erector set" mill. 
I am looking for a used lathe head and bed, not much else is needed, a few used tools shops here have such things very cheap. Before I do that I need to get around to boring a few more bodies for my projects; I am behind schedule with this hobby, you know.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 22, 2007)

ddaadd said:


> I have to ask if your family looks on in bewilderment as you craft your device?
> 
> Not understanding your flashlight hobby in the first place, much less the
> lengths you are willing to go to pursue your passion?
> ...


Thank you, but my family is over that by now... 
Do you really think that is what they are whispering about?:huh: Oh, My Gosh! I thought they were talking about the weather!


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## scott.cr (Jul 23, 2007)

PhotonAddict said:


> I apologize for the OT question, but what is a spin index jig used for?



A spin index could be used to rotate the tube at precise 120-degree increments. The first flute could be cut arbitrarily, the second and third would be cut 120 and 240 degrees from the first flute respectively.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 25, 2007)

The Pictures you ask for:


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## cnjl3 (Jul 25, 2007)

That is one 'awesome' set up
Saves you some 'coin' for other priorities.
A true flashaholic.
:thumbsup:


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 26, 2007)

I have never seen a cutting tool like that. Where do you find those bits?


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## modamag (Jul 26, 2007)

*Northern_Lights:* That's one heck of a creative machine. :twothumbs

*Lux:* ebay is your friend (@ 1/5 price).


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## NotEnoughLight (Jul 26, 2007)

Modamag, is there a specific name for those cutting tools? I'm getting drill bits in my ebay search


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## Northern Lights (Jul 26, 2007)

modamag said:


> *Northern_Lights:* That's one heck of a creative machine. :twothumbs
> 
> *Lux:* ebay is your friend (@ 1/5 price).


I NEED TO ADDRESS THIS AGAIN, I WONDER IF A MODERATOR COULD COMMENT.
I am *Northern Lights,... northern_lights* is not me, that person came long after me. When you post your user name is underlined and these two look the same. That has confused some people. The computer does not differentiate the capitals but does que off the underscore!


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2007)

Northern Lights said:


> I NEED TO ADDRESS THIS AGAIN, I WONDER IF A MODERATOR COULD COMMENT.
> I am *Northern Lights,... northern_lights* is not me, that person came long after me. When you post your user name is underlined and these two look the same. That has confused some people. The computer does not differentiate the capitals but does que off the underscore!



You may want to contact the mods directly, I doubt they will see this post....but, what is the description of those type of bits? I never saw one like that before, and don't know what to call them when searching.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 28, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> You may want to contact the mods directly, I doubt they will see this post....but, what is the description of those type of bits? I never saw one like that before, and don't know what to call them when searching.


Plasmaman found these, looks like the real McCoy:
 
I prefer the steel cutter because it takes smaller chips, bites that is, and is less likely to chatter. Also does not chatter because the extension fitting is slightly off center so a deeper bite at part of the rotations
http://www.atigarryson.com/Catalog/Bu_Catalog.asp
http://www.atigarryson.com/Catalog/BU_Detail.asp?id=490


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 28, 2007)

Sweet! Thanks!

This was another site that had some of these too. The 19mm is likely a 3/4" bit. Doing a google for *3/4" cylindrical bur* gives a pretty good list.

http://www.carbidebur.com/shapes/saburs.htm


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## DonShock (Jul 29, 2007)

Northern Lights said:


> That is what the floating second bearing allows me to do. I can move it and use the lock screw to secure it. The distance from that bearing to the cutter is the most minimal, I can bring it up to the point the shart starts to flare. That added the rigidity. One test run was done before I added it and it was obvious the shaft had vibration and wobble so I immediately added the second bearing. I aligned it to the original bearing on the shaft then soldered it to its carrier.


Another possible suggestion to increase the rigidity occurred to me as I was looking at your pictures.

I am assuming you move the extension shaft lengthwise through your bearings as you cut, so at some points, there could be a fair amount of distance between the mill and your second bearing. One idea I had while looking at your pictures would be to add a third bearing on the shaft of the mill itself, between the mill head and head of the extension shaft. If you let the square side of the bearing float on the square shaft, instead of being fixed in position like your existing bearing, it would always be supporting the mill at the minimum possible distance for minimal flexing. And the distance between the mill and the bearing would always be the same so whatever flexing there was would stay consistant as the mill is moved lengthwise through the light. This might produce smoother results.

I am thinking about building one of these rigs myself. I already have the cross slide table sitting around unused. I bought one for a benchtop drill press and it was too large to use.


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## Northern Lights (Jul 29, 2007)

DonShock said:


> Another possible suggestion to increase the rigidity occurred to me as I was looking at your pictures.
> 
> I am assuming you move the extension shaft lengthwise through your bearings as you cut, so at some points, there could be a fair amount of distance between the mill and your second bearing. One idea I had while looking at your pictures would be to add a third bearing on the shaft of the mill itself, between the mill head and head of the extension shaft. If you let the square side of the bearing float on the square shaft, instead of being fixed in position like your existing bearing, it would always be supporting the mill at the minimum possible distance for minimal flexing. And the distance between the mill and the bearing would always be the same so whatever flexing there was would stay consistant as the mill is moved lengthwise through the light. This might produce smoother results.
> 
> I am thinking about building one of these rigs myself. I already have the cross slide table sitting around unused. I bought one for a benchtop drill press and it was too large to use.


 
No, the cutter is not moved back and forth in the bearings as I cut, could do that but I don't. The vise is a cross slide and the feed is done with one of the axis cranks (you know that but for others still looking over this beast I tossed that in). But I know what you are saying; I left the forward bearing float on the square guide at first, the reason that it can be moved and also why the vice can be mounted differently by repositioning it on the frame is to accomodate longer tubes. I also can use a longer shaft and repositiong the bearing close to the cutter. This way the machine is very adaptable. When in use I run the cutter on the shaft as close to the forward bearing as possible. The shaft has a taper so you cannot get all the way up to the cutter with the bearing. The way it is set up now I believe will take care of up to 3D cells. I wanted the machine to be able to take on a 4D although at this time I have no plans to have one myself.
edit
DON! I just got a brainstorming idea! From your suggestion. You would not need the one axis on the vice if you floated a third or made the second bearing longer and floated it. Once you positioned the tube you could do the entire feed by using the cutter shaft. Good idea but I prefer the control of fixing the bearing and shaft and feeding the tube using the vice axis. But your idea fixes a big problem! The combined lengths of the shaft and travel of the vice can be coupled togther for 4D, I do not think I can do a 4D without stepping the tube in the vice because the travel should be shorter than the 4D.


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## TrekJeff (Aug 3, 2007)

Very nice, the bit looks like some of the ones made at Gar Tool in Alma MI. Very nice boring jig. I would suggest tacking the corners to ensure it all stays square, all in all, great work!!:thumbsup:


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## Christexan (Aug 4, 2007)

Great job! I'd rebuild it using box-frame pre-holed tubing rather than the L tubing (wrote up a long description, but if you have no intention of rebuilding it, then figure no point in reading about it), box frame would be much more torque resistance and sag resistant, but other than that it's great! 
That, and I'd put in a couple of opposing diagonal spans to guarantee it stays square under stress (right-angle crosspieces with one mounting point allow the frame to go trapezoidal, a couple of opposing diagonals (I'd put them past the ends of the user area, extending the long spans, and use flat plate, in summary version). Just some suggested improvements if anyone else is considering such a project, or for a "V2" of it. Won't cost much more, but give a tremendously more stable frame. 
Just my suggestions, not being critical at all though, very creative and does the job!


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## Northern Lights (Aug 4, 2007)

Suggestions are much appreciated. I have to do a tri bore on a mag charger then see what the machine did to respond to that job. I am taking the suggestions and my experiments and plan in the distant future to build "markII" on an old lathe bed, using the head to turn the cutter. I figure and old bed stripped of accessories would be pretty cheap. I have seen some in used tool shops.


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## katsyonak (Jan 3, 2008)

Good job! very innovative indeed :thumbsup:


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## Jenova (Jan 3, 2008)

That is sweet man  You interested in some work ?


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## Northern Lights (Jan 4, 2008)

Jenova said:


> That is sweet man  You interested in some work ?


No, it is time consuming and you should see the hole I bored through the last tube I was working on. It is easy to make a mistake if you are distracted.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 4, 2008)

Northern Lights said:


> No, it is time consuming and you should see the hole I *bored through the last tube* I was working on. It is easy to make a mistake if you are distracted.



LOL! You may have invented a new heat dissipating system!


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## Northern Lights (Jan 4, 2008)

LuxLuthor said:


> LOL! You may have invented a new heat dissipating system!


LOL? Just keep laughing, mine is the last laugh!
As I promised when I tire of this contraption and its evil rituals I am sending it to dwell with you; it has an appetite for Mag Instrument aluminum. One 3D = One baggie of aluminum chips!

You can handle the fan mail.

Kidding aside; maybe someone will want a 3D bright aluminum finish quad-bore to shorten past the new "vent system" to an odd size, I kept the tube.

One thing I noticed is that in many cases a quad-bore will also handle tri-bore needs too, that is my tri-pack of A size (18mm) would slide into the 4 bore. It is a shot at a universal host.


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 4, 2008)

Northern Lights said:


> LOL? Just keep laughing, mine is the last laugh!
> As I promised when I tire of this contraption and its evil rituals I am sending it to dwell with you; it has an appetite for Mag Instrument aluminum. One 3D = One baggie of aluminum chips!
> 
> You can handle the fan mail.



:thumbsup: :kiss:



Northern Lights said:


> One thing I noticed is that in many cases a quad-bore will also handle tri-bore needs too, that is my tri-pack of A size (18mm) would slide into the 4 bore. It is a shot at a universal host.



True. I have done that too.


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## EXPY (Jan 6, 2008)

The cutter looks like a carbide die grinder burr, Harbor Freight or Grainger. ~$10.

Excellent and creative machine!!!


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## Torque1st (Jan 8, 2008)

Nice machine!:twothumbs

Some things to consider: "V" shape vise jaws would help center and align the flashlight bodies. Your bit extender can be sandpapered down in diameter so that the bearing can move closer. The shank length on the burr can be reduced to move the cutter closer to the bearing. With just one part of the burr doing the cutting it can be rotated occasionally to bring up a new edge if necessary. WD-40 is a great cutting fluid to keep aluminum from building up on the tool.

Happy Milling!!!


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## Northern Lights (Jan 8, 2008)

Torque1st said:


> Nice machine!:twothumbs
> 
> Some things to consider: "V" shape vise jaws would help center and align the flashlight bodies. Your bit extender can be sandpapered down in diameter so that the bearing can move closer. The shank length on the burr can be reduced to move the cutter closer to the bearing. With just one part of the burr doing the cutting it can be rotated occasionally to bring up a new edge if necessary. WD-40 is a great cutting fluid to keep aluminum from building up on the tool.
> 
> Happy Milling!!!


"*V" shape vise jaws* : I presume you mean channling the jaws in line with the direction of the tube. Not necessary and a limitation. The tube rests on the top of the track, setting it down on the track and closing the jaws aligns it automatically. Alignment of the guiede shaft to the X direction of the vice is critical and adjustable at the guide bar slides. Although I do not foresee using other diameter tubes, channeling the jaws would prevent that. The Cross slide vice moves in the (X,Y) plane and the square guide shaft moves in the (Z,X) plane, that is up and down. These three direction allow exact placement inside the tube of the cutter so as to be linear and square to the tube.

*the bearing can move closer* : No, it cannot move closer to the square guide shaft. The diameter of the cutting bit does not allow that. The cutter is set to barely clear the shaft and the diameter of the cutter determines the height of the bearing over the guide shaft. The bearings slide on the squae shaft and the cutter is parallel to the guide shaft. The cutter and guide go inside and through the tube.

*move the cutter closer to the bearing : *Than is not how it works, the cutting shaft floats in the bearing. There is play in the shaft in relation to the position of the bearing. All that needs to be done is to push the shaft forward or backwards. The play is determined by the position of either or both bearings which can be moved on the square guide shaft. There is a slight taper at the end of the extension that can be reduce to move the cutter closer to the bearing but that is not necessary and contrary to design. There is no chatter now. The taper allows backward pressure to tighten the shaft in the front bearing. It is designed to work that way. Sanding (not machining?) it down would allow the cutter to chatter even if slightly closer; the taper tightens the rotation in the bearing when there is rear thrust on the shaft. I designed it that way.

*one part...doing the cutting...* *rotated occasionally : *The burr is not stroked back and forth it is rotating under the power of a half inch drill. The entire burr cutts as it should. It is positioned stationary in relation to the X direction;the cross slide moves the tube accross the cutter parallel to it, that is lengthwise. The Y direction controls depth of the cut.

I use WD40 or cutting oil.

One prototype did move the shaft back and forth while it rotated the cutter also. Then as now overall the length of the cut is set by the vice moving the tube in the X direction. In this model there is a little bit of play for back and forth movement of the shaft depending where you set the bearings. I use that back and forth positioning not for cutting but to be able to reach the various lengths of tubes.

Take another look, I think your perception of how it works is not fully in view.


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## Torque1st (Jan 8, 2008)

I know exactly how it works, I have been designing and building machine tools and other machines for years as an Engineer. I have my own 20/24 x 60 lathe and small mill at home for my use.

The V-jaws would center the tube no matter how big it was as long as the V-is high enuf in the jaws. V-jaws are commonly used to hold round objects for machining. Channeling the jaws (V-jaws) would not restrict you to one size of tube. Setting the tube down on the base of the vise is ~OK but unnecessary and requires realignment of the cutter with the center of the tube when tube diameter is changed. Flat jaws holding a round object can allow the workpiece to shift or come out of the fixture during machining.

Sanding the drill extension is acceptable in a home shop to reduce the diameter slightly instead of machining. Obviously machining would be better but not necessary with the device you have. The drill extension could still have a slight taper left in it to reduce radial clearances during cutting. Wear in the bearing will eventually do this for you tho.



> the bearing can move closer : No, it cannot move closer to the square guide shaft.


Sorry, you misunderstood. The bearing could move closer to the cutting tool. Supporting the cutting tool as closely as possible is best for accuracy and repeatability. Reducing the length of the burr would also reduce the unsupported length. 



> one part...doing the cutting... rotated occasionally :


This is in reference to your comment about being unable to precisely center the burr in the extension. The drill extension is not a precision part.

The main limitations at present to your material removal rates are the stiffness of the cutter and guide shaft as well as the flat jaws and guide bar supports.


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## Northern Lights (Jan 8, 2008)

thanks for clearifying, I know it is difficult to explain everything you want to say in a short forum reply. I can make more sense of what you wrote. Jim Jones and I had a discussion like this once and found we were on the same track, just mis-read each other and that lead to a lot of discussion and now we are great associates.
I intend to rebuild yet another model of this machine and use an old lathe bed and I certainly am going to print your comments and consider them when building it.


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## Torque1st (Jan 8, 2008)

No problems. Your machine as-is will do well for machining an occasional body. A lathe with a carriage may be overkill unless you are looking to do a lot of production. Many machines to perform an occasional operation are made in-house from common materials just like yours. 

Walt Disney made his first animation stand for cartoon production from an old lathe bed stood up vertically bolted to a floor stand using the carriage modified for vertical movement. His machine had a few flaws until I corrected them years later. It made a lot of cartoons and may have even done some of his animated movies tho. Everything is digital nowadays.

A set of V-groove soft jaws could be made from Delrin or Nylon to hold the body securely and avoid marring the surface.


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## Northern Lights (Jan 9, 2008)

Torque1st said:


> No problems. Your machine as-is will do well for machining an occasional body. A lathe with a carriage may be overkill unless you are looking to do a lot of production. Many machines to perform an occasional operation are made in-house from common materials just like yours.
> 
> Walt Disney made his first animation stand for cartoon production from an old lathe bed stood up vertically bolted to a floor stand using the carriage modified for vertical movement. His machine had a few flaws until I corrected them years later. It made a lot of cartoons and may have even done some of his animated movies tho. Everything is digital nowadays.
> 
> A set of V-groove soft jaws could be made from Delrin or Nylon to hold the body securely and avoid marring the surface.


INCREDIBLE! I remember seeing that machine on a TV special when I was young, the late 50's or early 60's on black and white TV! I have a good memory and when something strikes my intrest I will usually remember it in detail and for decades. For some reason learning how he made cartoons like the animated movies stuck with me and IIRC that machine or a descendant of it was use to to create the effect of relative motion between foreground, middle ground and background in animated movies like Snow White.
As we get off topic I will leave it with one comment and that is CPF brings together a lot of different avocations and makes the world so small. All over flashlights, who would have believed it.


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## cat (Jan 9, 2008)

Yes! With the technical stuff there is probably scope for even more collaboration here. Electronics, machining/fabrication, software / embedded software, software for charging, "Programmable Incan Regulator", and so on.


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