# DBS V2 (with R2 Cree/ DI) Comparison Review



## selfbuilt (Jan 30, 2008)

_*REVIEWER’S NOTE:*This is my preliminary comparison of the new Dereelight DBS V2 compared to the original edition. The EDGETAC RaidFire Spear is also included for comparison purposes in the runtimes and output._ 

For a detailed comparison to all the other thrower lights in my collection, please see:
Thrower review: DBS, Spear, MRV, Tiablo, Regal & clones: THROW, RUNTIMES, BEAMSHOTS! 











As you can see, the new V2 is shorter than the original, with a slightly different design to the bezel and tailcap. Also features a removable wire clip.






Light comes in the standard Dereelight presentation box with with cut-out padding, basic instruction manual, spare parts (o-rings, tailcap cover, switch replacement, clip bezel & screws). 











As you can see, unlike the original DBS, the tailcap screw threads are now anodized on both the battery tube and tailcap of the V2. This allows you to lock-out the light – a nice feature. :thumbsup:






Switch now comes with a spring for battery contact. This wasn’t needed previously as the extra contact spring in the original body tube helped press the battery against the contact plate in the tailcap. Although not shown in the pics, the threads between top of the battery tube and the head are also anodized.

A comment about the tailcaps: although not shown, the new V2 has a raised tailcap switch compared to the original. This makes it easier to activate the forward clicky. 











The quality of the machining and anodizing has definitely improved from the original DBS. Although I’m a fan of the darker black finish anyway, you can see for yourself that the earlier machining marks and “splotchiness” of the original anodizing are no longer present on the new V2. The lettering is also considerably sharper looking. :thumbsup:

*Weight (without battery):*
Dereelight DBS V2: 194g
RaidFire Spear: 191g	
Dereelight DBS: 221g
Lumapower MRV: 195g
Tiablo A8: 151g

As you can see, the weight of the DBS V2 has dropped to within the range of the other throwers. Still a bit “top-heavy” compared to the Tiablo or Raidfire, it is improved over the original DBS.

I haven’t taken disassembled pics, but the reason for the lower weight and height comes from the removal of the extra contact surface/spring at the top part of the battery tube (i.e. the positive terminal of the battery now makes direct contact with the pill spring). I’ve always maintained that the extra contact surface in the original DBS was just another potential source of problems – glad to see they have removed it. 

_*The rest of this review will focus on the new continuously variable switch (“DI”) with the new R2 bin Cree emitter.*_

*Initial Throw Observations:*

Throw values are the square-root of Lux measurements taken at 1m using a light meter. Note that my lightmeter tends to report lower absolute values than most, but I have verified it is linearly responsive over the range of intensities in question.

*Dereelight DBS DI – R2 (18650-only) Throw Lux @ one meter:*
18650 x 1 on high (100%): 23,900 Lux (* but not for long, see below)
18650 x 1 on med (50%): 13,100 Lux
18650 x 1 on low (5%): 980 Lux
*Dereelight DBS 3-Stage - Q4 (18650-only) Throw Lux @ one meter:*
18650 x 1 on high: 21,200 Lux
18650 x 1 on medium: 10,500 Lux
18650 x 1 on low: 1,830 Lux
*RaidFire Spear – Q5 (18650-only) Throw Lux @ one meter:*
18650 x 1 on high: 24,000 Lux
18650 x 1 on low: 360 Lux

** Note that the DI circuit quickly drops ~10% from the initial output/throw levels reported above within the first 2 minutes, then settles into regulation. See my runtimes below for more info.*

*Overall Output:*

It is very difficult to accurately guage differences in overall output among these lights, since so much of their output is dedicated to "throw". I've attempted two methods: a ceiling-bounce test and my home-made milk carton lightbox. For the ceiling-bounce test, the light meter is placed on the floor of a small windowless room, and the flashlight is placed in candle mode nearby, shining upwards toward the ceilling. For the lightbox method, I use the same standard setup as I do for runtimes (see below for a description).






_As you can see, initial output of the DBS V2 with the R2 Cree/DI circuit is intermediate to my old Q4 3SD and the RaidFire Spear. But again, initial output quickly decays to approximately Q4 3SD level (see runtimes below)._

*Runtimes:*

Runtimes charts are slightly different from my other reviews - since my home-made milk carton lightbox doesn't accurately capture overall output on these intense throwers, I have adjusted all my relative output numbers to initial throw (measured as the squareroot of Lux @1m). This allows you to directly compare the relative throw of each light over time on the graphs below (although you can't directly compare these graphs with my other reviews).






*As you can see, initial output drops rapidly within the first 2 minutes, and then settles into regulation around the level of my Q4 3SD circuit. * This will be a disappointment for those that expected greater output due to the higher output bin (R2), and the expectation that the DI circuit would be harder-driven than the old 1.0A 3SD. 

*Beamshots:*

Up close beamshots at ~1 meter from a white wall, to show you the different overall patterns. 

















My camera is set to automatic white balance, and the real difference between the lights is not shown in the pics above. In real life, this WH tint bin R2 is quite yellow-green compared to the premium WC Q4 on the left. I would say my WH R2 sample looks very similar to ernsanada’s samples. 

*DI Circuit User Interface*

The DI circuit is continuously variable with preset levels of 5%, 50%, and 100% output.
Double-tap the switch within 1 sec to get it to start ramping. Light begins at the lowest level and ramps up.
Light ramping pauses at 5%, 50%, and 100% levels for 2 secs each time, and flashes off to let you know you are there (i.e. 1 flash at 5%, 2 flashes at 50%, and 3 flashes at 100%).
To set the light at any given level, simply turn it off when you reach the desired output.
Light has a memory mode – it remembers the last level you left it at when you turn it back on. 
Light uses PWM for low modes. I have measured the freq at 121 Hz in all low modes, including during ramping.






In the figure above, I compare the ramping sequence to that of the LiteFlux LF5 and EDGETAC NiteCore DI. Note that I have reformulated my ramping graphs in terms of % relative output (i.e. % of max output) to allow you to more easily compare the rates and characteristics of the ramps.
_
As you can see, the ramp is fairly quick and roughly visually linear, except for the 2 sec pauses at 5%, 50%, and 100% output levels (vertical lines at these points are to illustrate the flashing that occurs)._

_*Preliminary conclusions:* (I've only started playing with the light, so these will be updated ...)_

So far, the V2 seems to be a considerable improvement on the original DBS in every way – machining, anodizing, length, weight, and ease of action of the switch. Well done! :thumbsup:
Inclusion of the belt clip is a good idea, and seems to work well in my initial testing.
The new R2 Cree (WH tint bin) coupled with the continuously variable (DI) circuit is a bit of a disappointment. Initial output is about what I expect from a Q5, and it quickly drops down to a Q4 level when it enters regulation after ~2 mins. :shakehead
Current users of the various Q4 or Q5 digital circuit DBS' are likely to be disappointed by the output and tint of the R2 (although non-premium tint was advertised in advance). Light does seem to be a WH tint.
The DI interface works well, but output and runtime suggest that it is NOT driven harder than the original 1.0A 3SD. Throw junkies might want to stick with the harder driven 2SD (2-stage digital) circuit (which is supposedly 1.2A).
PWM frequency on the DI circuit is a minimally respectable 121 Hz. Personally, I find anything lower than this distracting in every day use. Note than my 3SD Q4 had an undetectably high level of PWM in comparison (i.e. >1 kHz)
My DI R2 pill also produces a lot more "whine" or buzzing in low modes than my 3SD Q4 did, despite the much lower PWM.

More to come ...


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## StefanFS (Jan 30, 2008)

Fantastic! You are a very sharp individual. You always try your best to convey what you observe. No guessing games.
I haven't received my DBS V2 yet, but I'm already building two pills for it with CREE Q5 and various drivers.
Stefan


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## JKL (Jan 30, 2008)

Very interesting, as usual




.

Thanks Selfbuilt .


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## marc123 (Jan 30, 2008)

Thank you for the excellent review selfbuilt.


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## I came to the light... (Jan 30, 2008)

Do you think you could pop a 3SD or 2SD 1.2A pill into a V2 to the throw to the V1 when the circuitry is the same?

Thanks for the great review :twothumbs


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## WadeF (Jan 30, 2008)

Great review as always selfbuilt!  You need a Q5 WC digital pill to test. 

I have a couple R2 DI's on the way, and a R2 3SD. I'll see if the R2 3SD does better than the DI. 

Hopefully I'll get my DBS v2, no tracking action since it left China, hopefully it isn't lost.


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## selfbuilt (Jan 30, 2008)

Thanks for the support everyone. :wave:



StefanFS said:


> Fantastic! You are a very sharp individual. You always try your best to convey what you observe. No guessing games.
> I haven't received my DBS V2 yet, but I'm already building two pills for it with CREE Q5 and various drivers.


Thanks Stefan - and I'm looking forward to your detailed review too!  



I came to the light... said:


> Do you think you could pop a 3SD or 2SD 1.2A pill into a V2 to the throw to the V1 when the circuitry is the same?


I would expect the V1 and V2 lights would perform about the same with the same pill installed (but I'll confirm that with mine when I get the chance). Unfortunately, I don't have one of the 1.2A 2SD pills to test. I guess we'll have to wait until WadeF's V2s show up ...


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## WadeF (Jan 30, 2008)

I'm also excited to see if I get much of a gain by replacing my DBS V1's lens with a new AR coated lens. I think that's why the Raidfire is close to the DBS V1, the Raidfire supposedly has a AR coated lens, while the DBS v1 did not. 

I think the biggest gain with the DBS v2 is just the redesign of the light itself. DBS v1 and DBS v2 should be virtually identical in throw (assuming they both have the new AR coated lens) if they are using the same pills.


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## StefanFS (Jan 31, 2008)

WadeF,
I believe the RaidFire has some AR coating, but it's unlikely that it's a multicoat (three layers on each side). The same goes for most more 'expensive' throw lights, probably including version 1 of the DBS, MRV and Tiablo A8/A9. They seem to have single layer, clear, AR coating. Calling that ultraclear glass with AR is unfortunate. Quality and thickness of the glass is also a factor. Multicoated high quality glass is very expensive. As an example, when I put UCL or UCL-type lenses in my D-minis, Tiablos and MRVs output went up by 8-10%. 
Stefan


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## cat (Jan 31, 2008)

Good point. 
Yet UCL / flashlightlens.com seems inexpensive. Are their UCL lenses multicoated?


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## StefanFS (Jan 31, 2008)

cat said:


> Good point.
> Yet UCL / flashlightlens.com seems inexpensive. Are their UCL lenses multicoated?


 
UCL is multicoated. Very expensive in relation to the cost of ordinary glass that is. It'll be interesting to see what kind of lens the new DBS V2 has.
Stefan


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## climbinglife (Jan 31, 2008)

Any idea what the runtimes would be on Primaries using the 1sm pill?


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## selfbuilt (Jan 31, 2008)

Not sure about the AR coatings of any of these lights really, but I agree the UCL lenses do provide a signficant benefit over basic ones. 

By the way, I notice my RaidFire seems to resist surface dust better than the others. :thinking: I wonder if their exterior "diamond-coating" reduces electrostatic attraction?



climbinglife said:


> Any idea what the runtimes would be on Primaries using the 1sm pill?


I have the original 2SM pill (Q2 emitter), and time to 50% was 1:43 on Energizer primaries, and 2:57 on 18650. Regulation was a bit unusual on primaries, but standard semi-regulated decay on li-ion. See runtimes plots here.


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## cat (Jan 31, 2008)

Stefan said:


> UCL is multicoated. Very expensive in relation to the cost of ordinary glass that is.



Yes, expensive as a manufacturing cost. It seems inexpensive to me compared to other MAG hotwire parts. 



selfbuilt said:


> Not sure about the AR coatings of any of these lights really, but I agree the UCL lenses do provide a signficant benefit over basic ones.
> 
> By the way, I notice my RaidFire seems to resist surface dust better than the others. :thinking: I wonder if their exterior "diamond-coating" reduces electrostatic attraction?



That's interesting. I wonder what it is that they've used. :thinking:


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## MstrHnky (Jan 31, 2008)

so only the 2SD is driven at 1.2A, and not the 3SD?

i think my mind is made up on which WC Q5 to get now.


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## Steve L (Jan 31, 2008)

MstrHnky said:


> so only the 2SD is driven at 1.2A, and not the 3SD?
> 
> i think my mind is made up on which WC Q5 to get now.


No, the only difference is the 3SD has medium. All the digital pills are driven at 1.2a(I'm not sure about the DI).


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## WadeF (Feb 1, 2008)

Got my DBS v2 today. I got a DI R2 and 3SD R2 DBS pills and the 3SD beats the DI as far as LUX. This could simply be due to one focusing a little tighter than the other, or the 3SD R2 has a lower Vf, OR the 3SD gets more current to the R2 than the DI pill is.  

I've gained about 2,500-3,000LUX with the DBS v2 3SD R2 over my DBS v1 with my best performing Q5 pill.


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## marc123 (Feb 1, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Got my DBS v2 today. I got a DI R2 and 3SD R2 DBS pills and the 3SD beats the DI as far as LUX. This could simply be due to one focusing a little tighter than the other, or the 3SD R2 has a lower Vf, OR the 3SD gets more current to the R2 than the DI pill is.
> 
> I've gained about 2,500-3,000LUX with the DBS v2 3SD R2 over my DBS v1 with my best performing Q5 pill.


 
Thats good news, can't wait for the review...:twothumbs


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## adamlau (Feb 2, 2008)

I have been always a bit wary of multi-mode assemblies. Additional circuitry normally leads to increased resistance ,which in turn leads to lower overall output. It is why I have found the 1S pills to be consistently brighter than any of the others (though I have yet to drive the 1SM-2 at 14.8V).


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## WadeF (Feb 2, 2008)

adamlau said:


> I have been always a bit wary of multi-mode assemblies. Additional circuitry normally leads to increased resistance ,which in turn leads to lower overall output. It is why I have found the 1S pills to be consistently brighter than any of the others (though I have yet to drive the 1SM-2 at 14.8V).


 
Next time Dereelight has R2's I'll have to try a 1S with an R2.  

With the R2 I put together (it's a big sloppy) I sometimes short out the pill, but sometimes only what I can describe as a partial short. The LED still comes on, but I can't change modes and it will be stuck in high. This is a 3SD pill that I transplanted my own R2 WG onto. The interesting thing is when this happens, it is brighter than when all 3 modes work. So there is potential for the emitter to be brighter than it is normally when set to MAX on the 3SD. I'm not sure what kind of current is hitting the emitter when this happens, it may be enough to shorten the life. I just need to try and insulate whatever is shorting out better, but it is an interesting side effect.


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## selfbuilt (Feb 8, 2008)

Just a quick update: I've tested the PWM frequency, and it is *121 Hz* in all low modes. I consider this minimally acceptable personally.

Actually, it's kind of cool watching the frequency graphs as the light goes through its ramping sequence - the freq stay the same, but the duty cycle widens as the perceived intensity goes up (just as you would expect on most PWM lights). First time I've got to see this in action on a ramping light (the NiteCore is too a high a freq for me to detect).


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## MstrHnky (Feb 8, 2008)

i'm going to buy one as soon as alan confirms that the PWM frequency has been adjusted. he said to check back around the 15th.

i really can't wait for this light as it will "complete" my collection... for a few weeks anyway. :laughing:


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## CandleFranky (Feb 8, 2008)

MstrHnky said:


> i'm going to buy one as soon as alan confirms that the PWM frequency has been adjusted. he said to check back around the 15th.


Where is your problem with the actual 121 Hz? Can you see a flicker? I have the CL1H 3SD, but cannot find any problems. The flicker is invisible for my eyes.


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## selfbuilt (Feb 8, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> Where is your problem with the actual 121 Hz? Can you see a flicker? I have the CL1H 3SD, but cannot find any problems. The flicker is invisible for my eyes.


FYI, my Q4 3SD for the DBS has a MUCH higher frequency - well over 1KHz, since I can't detect it by eye or by instrument.

121 Hz is fairly noticeable in comparison, but not horribly so.


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## Stereodude (Feb 8, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> Just a quick update: I've tested the PWM frequency, and it is *121 Hz* in all low modes. I consider this minimally acceptable personally.


Interesting, my 3SD Q5 is 94Hz. :sick2:


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## ernsanada (Feb 8, 2008)

I put my 3SD Cree XR-E WC Q5 in my DBS V2 and now it's stuck in high only. It was working OK until yesterday. I removed the battery and I think I'll let it sit for 24hrs and see what will happen.

A couple of days before I put my 3SD Cree XR-E Q4 in my DBS V1 and the light was stuck in what looked like PWM mode. The beam was pulsating. I could go to all 3 levels but the beam was still pulsating. I tried it in my DBS V2 and the same thing. I waited a day and still the same thing.

I figured I had nothing to loose and run 2 RCR's in the light. The 3SD are recommended to run only a 18650 batttery. I figured maybe the module was stuck and the extra voltage might get it back to normal. I ran the light for about 5 seconds and now the pulsating stopped, all levels seem to be OK.

I'm not sure though if the beam is still as bright as before. The only way to tell is to take a lux reading of it.

My lux reading before was 18,500 lux @ 1 meter.

Now, 9140 lux @ 1 meter.

The positive is at least I got the pulsating to stop.


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## MstrHnky (Feb 8, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> Where is your problem with the actual 121 Hz? Can you see a flicker? I have the CL1H 3SD, but cannot find any problems. The flicker is invisible for my eyes.



i've heard too many people report that there is a flicker, on low and only if you wildly flash the light around, but on a $125 flashlight, i will wait till i get alan's approval before i jump in. 

maybe if i bought one today, it wouldn't bother me, but i'm not willing to take that risk.


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## WadeF (Feb 8, 2008)

ernsanada said:


> I put my 3SD Cree XR-E WC Q5 in my DBS V2 and now it's stuck in high only. It was working OK until yesterday. I removed the battery and I think I'll let it sit for 24hrs and see what will happen.


 
Sounds like you are shorting out the pill. Is it a CL1H pill, or DBS pill? Does it have an insulating washer on it? Do you have it screwed in really tight? Try screwing it in all the way, but not tight. Or back it off just a bit.


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## ernsanada (Feb 8, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Sounds like you are shorting out the pill. Is it a CL1H pill, or DBS pill? Does it have an insulating washer on it? Do you have it screwed in really tight? Try screwing it in all the way, but not tight. Or back it off just a bit.



It's the DBS pill that came with my DBS V1.

I backed it out a little and now it works.

Thanks Wade!


Do you think the same thing happened to my 3SD Cree XR-E Q4 pill? The pill shorting out causing it to pulsate?


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## WadeF (Feb 8, 2008)

ernsanada said:


> Do you think the same thing happened to my 3SD Cree XR-E Q4 pill? The pill shorting out causing it to pulsate?


 
Maybe. I've noticed that over tightening them can cause problems. 

Also when it shorts out like that it seems to get brighter. I have a 3SD pill that I put a R2 WG into and since I didn't do as clean of a job as Dereelight it shorts out more easily if I tigthen it too much. When this happens it gets brighter and I get like 29,000-30,000LUX.  When I back it out so all 3 modes work I get around 26,500-27,000LUX on high. 

Not sure if it's going into direct drive or what.


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## CandleFranky (Feb 9, 2008)

MstrHnky said:


> i've heard too many people report that there is a flicker, on low and only if you wildly flash the light around, but on a $125 flashlight, i will wait till i get alan's approval before i jump in.


As far as I know, Dereelight set the frequency lower because of a noise. You definitly cannot see the flicker in real use. And in high mode there is no flicker at all. 

:thinking:


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## selfbuilt (Feb 9, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Maybe. I've noticed that over tightening them can cause problems. ... Not sure if it's going into direct drive or what.


Interesting observation. My original Q4 3SD was defective upon arrival, and all I got was one mode direct drive (although it was not as bright as expected - less than my Q2 2SM). Screwing the pill in and out didn't make a difference in that case, so the circuit arriver permanently toasted.

Never had a problem with the replacement Q4 3SD Alan sent. But I'm surprised to hear some of the Q5 3SD have such a low PWM freq. My Q4 3SD shows no visible signs of PWM, which is the way I like it 

Anyone else measure the PWM of their lights? FYI, you can a method here (scroll down for the alternate sound card hook-up method that I commonly use).


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## Stereodude (Feb 9, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> Anyone else measure the PWM of their lights? FYI, you can a method here (scroll down for the alternate sound card hook-up method that I commonly use).


I measured the PWM of my 3SD Q5 pill using an oscilloscope, but I haven't measured my two other slow PWM disasters (Rexlight 2.0 & Jetbeam C-LE v1.0) I don't have any other lights with visible PWM, so I'm not interested in their PWM frequency at all.


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## Stereodude (Feb 9, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> As far as I know, Dereelight set the frequency lower because of a noise. You definitly cannot see the flicker in real use. And in high mode there is no flicker at all.
> 
> :thinking:


You need to preface your comment with what pill, and which version of it you have. My 94Hz 3SD Q5 is completely unusable to me in anything but high due to the PWM.


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## CandleFranky (Feb 9, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> You need to preface your comment with what pill, and which version of it you have. My 94Hz 3SD Q5 is completely unusable to me in anything but high due to the PWM.


Stereodude, I have the actual (newest) version of the CL1H 3SD Q5 pill. 

WHY is your 3SD Q5 "completely unusable"? The PWM is only used in low and medium mode and under normal circumstances NOT visible for human eyes.


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## Stereodude (Feb 9, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> Stereodude, I have the actual (newest) version of the CL1H 3SD Q5 pill.
> 
> WHY is your 3SD Q5 "completely unusable"? The PWM is only used in low and medium mode and under normal circumstances NOT visible for human eyes.


Maybe the PWM isn't visible to your human eyes, but it most certainly is to mine. :sigh:


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## CandleFranky (Feb 9, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> Maybe the PWM isn't visible to your human eyes, but it most certainly is to mine. :sigh:


It's not just your imagination? Is this possible at all? Perhaps you have a 3SD which PWM is slower then mine. I cannot detect the flicker, and my wife isn't able too. :shrug:


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## selfbuilt (Feb 9, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> It's not just your imagination? Is this possible at all? Perhaps you have a 3SD which PWM is slower then mine. I cannot detect the flicker, and my wife isn't able too. :shrug:


PWM below ~100Hz is certainly very noticeable. If your 3SD is like mine, then the PWM is >1kHz and not noticeable. However, the PWM on my DI (120Hz) is certainly noticeable. Stereodude's 94Hz would be very noticeable and distracting.

In practical use, I've always found <100Hz PWM very annoying - especially if you are watching a moving object, like an animal. It gives you something of that rave "strobe" effect. This is part of the reason why I switched from my Fenix L0D to Jet-u - a much higher PWM.


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## CandleFranky (Feb 9, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> PWM below ~100Hz is certainly very noticeable. If your 3SD is like mine, then the PWM is >1kHz and not noticeable. However, the PWM on my DI (120Hz) is certainly noticeable. Stereodude's 94Hz would be very noticeable and distracting.


If there is a real problem, Alan should send him another pill for free. 

My CL1H is brandnew, I can see the single dots of light when I throw my arms around me. But in normal use, I can see no flicker. Furthermore I have to remark, that I use my CL1H mostly in high mode, because it is more a thrower then an EDC for me. My new Fenix L1D Q5 (L2D/P2D) uses a different approach of regulation. What about the Fenix T1?

*Btw:* I have only an OP-reflector for my CL1H, but I am thinking about the SMO. Who has any experiences with both? Pros and cons?


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## Tubor (Feb 9, 2008)

Another super review thanks! I quite like this one but can't buy them all, yet


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## Stereodude (Feb 9, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> It's not just your imagination? Is this possible at all? Perhaps you have a 3SD which PWM is slower then mine. I cannot detect the flicker, and my wife isn't able too. :shrug:


No, it's not my imagination. Yes it's possible. The commonly accepted "model" of the human eye is derived from the average of a lot of people. However, there is a lot of variation from person to person in their eyesight.


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## Stereodude (Feb 9, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> *Btw:* I have only an OP-reflector for my CL1H, but I am thinking about the SMO. Who has any experiences with both? Pros and cons?


I have both. The SMO is pretty ringy. It's on the left in this shot. The right is the SMO reflector in the Regalight WT1 v2.


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## CandleFranky (Feb 10, 2008)

Stereodude said:


> No, it's not my imagination. Yes it's possible.


Then Dereelight should *not* use such low frequencies, which can be potentially seen by the human eye!!! But high frequencies seems to make a sound, as I know, this was the background for going lower. 

Perhaps it is better not to use PWM at all. There is a good regulation and no flicker in a Fenix L1D/L2D/P2D Q5. A way to go for Dereelight?



Stereodude said:


> I have both. The SMO is pretty ringy. It's on the left in this shot. The right is the SMO reflector in the Regalight WT1 v2.


And I have thought that the WT1 reflector is ringy. Where does all the rings come from, bad reflector manufacturing? :shakehead

Which reflector would you prefer in a CL1H? I think the OP is less ringy, but has an lower overall output and no real advantages in the spill?! :candle:


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## WadeF (Feb 11, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> And I have thought that the WT1 reflector is ringy. Where does all the rings come from, bad reflector manufacturing? :shakehead
> 
> Which reflector would you prefer in a CL1H? I think the OP is less ringy, but has an lower overall output and no real advantages in the spill?! :candle:


 
I think the main reason for the rings is the Cree emitter itself. Turn on a Maglite, even worse beam, not because Maglite designed a bad reflector, but because the incan bulb creates an ugly beam when used with a smooth reflector.

A OP is less ringy because it is textured and scatters the light resulting in a cleaner beam. I don't think a OP has less overall output, just a less focused beam so the hot spot won't be as intense and won't throw as well, but the hot spot will be larger, and the spill will be brighter.


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## Stereodude (Feb 11, 2008)

CandleFranky said:


> Which reflector would you prefer in a CL1H? I think the OP is less ringy, but has an lower overall output and no real advantages in the spill?! :candle:


So far I prefer the OP in the CL1H, but I haven't really used it for anything since it's basically just sitting waiting for a new pill. It's possible once I actually start using it I may feel differently.


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## WadeF (Feb 11, 2008)

You can do what I do, have 3 CL1H's and have one loaded with a smooth reflector, another with a OP reflector, etc.  

I have a V1, V2, and V3 CL1H.


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## StefanFS (Feb 13, 2008)

The DBS V2 with 3SD R2 WH pill has arrived. It throws 25 500 Lux @ 1 meter. My super pill, FluPIC + Q5 WG 'only' throws ~30 000 Lux. The driver in my 3SD pill definitely uses PWM below 100 Hz on low & medium. It's very noticeable. 
Stefan


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## selfbuilt (Feb 13, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> The DBS V2 with 3SD R2 WH pill has arrived. It throws 25 500 Lux @ 1 meter. My super pill, FluPIC + Q5 WG 'only' throws ~30 000 Lux. The driver in my 3SD pill definitely uses PWM below 100 Hz on low & medium. It's very noticeable.
> Stefan


Thanks for the update Stefan - glad to hear the light made it to Sweden. :twothumbs

Your light meter values are usually pretty close to mine, so it's good to see things are fairly consistent. Based on WadeF's numbers, the 3SD R2 is definately driven a bit harder than the DI R2 (which I have), so everything tracks there. Can't wait to see your custom pill results!

A pity about the low PWM freq on your 3SD, though. :thinking: I know there's been some discussion in this thread about the lowering being due to reducing low mode "whine", but that's certainly not true in my particular case - my DBS V2 with DI R2 buzzes a lot louder in low modes than my DBS V1 with 3SD Q4 does (which has an undetectable high freq PWM). Of course, this is apples-to-oranges, as the DI is different circuit than the 3SD. How is the whine on your 3SD R2 Stefan? 

Unfortunately, there seems to be a little too much variability in the various circuits Dereelight is using, from batch to batch. In any case, they really need to get the PWM freq back up, IMO.


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## StefanFS (Feb 13, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> A pity about the low PWM freq on your 3SD, though. :thinking: I know there's been some discussion in this thread about the lowering being due to reducing low mode "whine", but that's certainly not true in my particular case - my DBS V2 with DI R2 buzzes a lot louder in low modes than my DBS V1 with 3SD Q4 does (which has an undetectable high freq PWM). Of course, this is apples-to-oranges, as the DI is different circuit than the 3SD. How is the whine on your 3SD R2 Stefan?


 
My 3SD pill/module does have a buzzing sound on low & med. Nothing on high level. I guess I'll keep the pill as it is for the time being. I do have some more premium Q5, both WC & WG, which will be used with a boost driver. I'm convinced that this reflector should be able to produce significantly better numbers.

I have also done a runtime on high, output drops 9.5% during the first five minutes. Total runtime is 92 minutes. A flat curve after the initial drop, abrupt shutoff at 92 min.
Stefan


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## StefanFS (Feb 13, 2008)

I just finished this little monster pill (OK, so I still need to coat it in JB Weld and solder a better spring on it) and it's a fabulous photon weapon. It does what I thought the reflector could do with a properly driven CREE Q5: It produces ~38 500 Lux in throw at one meter with a lowly CREE Q5 WG driven at 4.03 V and ~1250 mA. It's stunning!










Edit!
This is the driver used:
http://www.kaidomain.com/WEBUI/ProductDetail.aspx?TranID=3151
and a runtime from another light..
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2123140&postcount=105


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## J.D. (Feb 13, 2008)

WOW 
well done :thumbsup:.
What board is this ?


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## Steve L (Feb 13, 2008)

Hi Stefan, Very nice! Did the focus change with the monster pill(Is the emitter farther inside the reflector- smaller hotspot)? Do you think the difference is attributed to higher voltage or current? Thanks


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## selfbuilt (Feb 13, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> I just finished this little monster pill (OK, so I still need to coat it in JB Weld and solder a better spring on it) and it's a fabulous photon weapon. It does what I thought the reflector could do with a properly driven CREE Q5: It produces ~38 500 Lux in throw at one meter with a lowly CREE Q5 WG driven at 4.03 V and ~1250 mA. It's stunning!


What can I say Stefan ... :wow::wow::wow::bow::bow::bow:

I saw your updated MRV thread on this driver, and was curious to see what it would do in a DBS. Hmmm, I've got an old defective DBS pill lying around here somewhere ... maybe I should pick up one of those drivers.


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## WadeF (Feb 13, 2008)

So when can we purchase monster pills from you Stefan?


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## StefanFS (Feb 13, 2008)

Steve L said:


> Hi Stefan, Very nice! Did the focus change with the monster pill(Is the emitter farther inside the reflector- smaller hotspot)? Do you think the difference is attributed to higher voltage or current? Thanks


 
I attribute it to the fact that the emitter gets a verified ~1.25A and a higher voltage. The emitter is hard to get 'unfocussed' as it focusses itself in the reflector. It just can't go any further. I don't think that the stock driver supply the emitter with 1.2A, also the voltage might be a few tenths of a volt to low. But Alan did warn about the higher vf of the R2 emitters.




selfbuilt said:


> I saw your updated MRV thread on this driver, and was curious to see what it would do in a DBS. Hmmm, I've got an old defective DBS pill lying around here somewhere ... maybe I should pick up one of those drivers.


 
You need to get a lot of those drivers, they are great. Works with lower voltages if needed. They are a bit finicky to get to work properly, I use the higest setting possible without high pitched tones! High pitched tones means the driver is over it's capacity, so it's tuned by ear. I tuned it down a bit to spare the driver, 35 000 Lux is enough! I had it up to 42 000 Lux but it got really hot and it squealed so it's not recommended.

This is it, I won't post anymore here and mess up your thread. I have a sort of hybrid review in progress on this light. Part review, part mod/something and part massive outdoors beamshot comparison to the Spear & my Tiablo A9. 



WadeF said:


> So when can we purchase monster pills from you Stefan?


 
 Sorry, you'll have to do it yourself, I'm all out of Q5 and drivers. It was a pain to solder it all together. We have to start terrorizing Alan about some serious drivers in his pills, more voltage and no PWM!

Stefan


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## orbital (Feb 13, 2008)

+

StefanFS, your mods. are fantastic!!

:bow::bow::bow:
:bow::bow:
:bow:


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## selfbuilt (Feb 13, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> You need to get a lot of those drivers, they are great. Works with lower voltages if needed. They are a bit finicky to get to work properly, I use the higest setting possible without high pitched tones! High pitched tones means the driver is over it's capacity, so it's tuned by ear. I tuned it down a bit to spare the driver, 35 000 Lux is enough! I had it up to 42 000 Lux but it got really hot and it squealed so it's not recommended.


Thanks for the tip, sounds like a fun experiment. I've got a bunch of Q5s (and various drivers) waiting for mods, but just haven't found the time lately. It's all I can do to keep up on some of the new lights coming in. But I definitely need to hunt around for that defective pill - a perfect candidate for an upgrade.



> This is it, I won't post anymore here and mess up your thread. I have a sort of hybrid review in progress on this light. Part review, part mod/something and part massive outdoors beamshot comparison to the Spear & my Tiablo A9.


Please feel free to "mess" up my threads with type of info any time you want! :laughing:

Seriously, all your work deserves its own thread - which I'm eagerly waiting to see.


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## cat (Feb 14, 2008)

Well done, Stefan, good. 



StefanFS said:


> We have to start terrorizing Alan about some serious drivers in his pills, more voltage and no PWM!



Well, it seems like they're available, like all they'd have to do is find out where kai gets them [?] and they could buy them by the hundred.


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## Dr. Leo Marvin (Mar 25, 2008)

Can anyone tell me the lux readings of the dbs v2 with the textured reflector? Thanks!


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