# Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)



## flashlife (Nov 23, 2008)

Just found these online:
A pair of 1AA Husky 'keychain' lights that look alot like a Nuwai style.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...d=10053&productId=100652638&N=10000003+90401#

*Does anyone have any experience with them?*

For $5.00 per pair, they probably can't be too exceptional...but then
Husky lights have been the talk of CPF lately.

These are "Online Only" with $6.50 shipping = $11.50 total.


----------



## Mr Happy (Nov 23, 2008)

*Re: Harbor Freight 1AA Lights (pair)*

Just thought I'd mention...that's not Harbor Freight, that's Home Depot... :thinking:


----------



## flashlife (Nov 23, 2008)

*Re: Harbor Freight 1AA Lights (pair)*



Mr Happy said:


> Just thought I'd mention...that's not Harbor Freight, that's Home Depot... :thinking:



Yup! DOH !!

Can't seem to change the thread title so I edit/added a 'disclaimer'.
Sorry.


----------



## Nake (Nov 23, 2008)

*Re: Harbor Freight 1AA Lights (pair)*



flashlife said:


> Yup! DOH !!
> 
> Can't seem to change the thread title so I edit/added a 'disclaimer'.
> Sorry.


 
When you go to edit, hit "Go Advanced" and you can change the title.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 23, 2008)

*Re: Harbor Freight 1AA Lights (pair)*



Nake said:


> When you go to edit, hit "Go Advanced" and you can change the title.



Thanks, Nake...did that!


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Nov 23, 2008)

I am guessing 0.5watt LEDs in them or 5mm ones for that price.

(changed title to match posters changed title)


----------



## AFAustin (Nov 23, 2008)

Nice find (this will probably be moved to CPFMP "Good Deals"). Thanks for posting it.

I wish you could pick these up at the store and avoid shipping---that would really make them a heckuva bargain.


----------



## sol-leks (Nov 23, 2008)

the build looks nice, they actually look a bit like a light i just bought recently online. I really like the look detachable strap.


----------



## Beamhead (Nov 23, 2008)

They seem to resemble the Fenix L1P.


----------



## p1fiend (Nov 23, 2008)

http://www.blackfriday.info/sales/homedepot-black-friday-ad.html

These two lights will be part of the HD black friday sales for $4.97 a pair.


----------



## Illum (Nov 23, 2008)

I don't recall seeing them when I went to Home depot yesterday:thinking:


----------



## kramer5150 (Nov 23, 2008)

Looks a lot like a rebrand of this...
http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0275488

















-15L
-5-6 hour run times off alkaline
-Horrid failure prone reverse clicky
-Good regulation
-Smooth floody beam
-plastic lens/reflector
-no water resistance
-purple color tint

I have had 2/3 of these lights fail, in total $18 to get one good light. IMHO your $$$ is better spent on an E01, Gerber tempo or SL Microstream. Lighthound sells the streamlight nano for $5.99, IMHO thats a better deal.

Although $5 for a pair seems tempting, assuming you can get one of them to work.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 23, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I don't recall seeing them when I went to Home depot yesterday:thinking:



They're " Online Only"...not stocked in the store...


----------



## flashlife (Nov 23, 2008)

kramer5150 said:


> Looks a lot like a rebrand of this...
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0275488
> -15L
> -5-6 hour run times off alkaline
> ...



Yep, looks the same...thanks, Kramer.
At MicroCenter are they package where you can actually handle them? ...
or do they use that nuclear-reactor-shielding-material-plastic-clamshell that takes a chainsaw to open??

Will another clicky or an IQ switch fit the tail to replace the stock horrid one??


----------



## kramer5150 (Nov 23, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Yep, looks the same...thanks, Kramer.
> At MicroCenter are they package where you can actually handle them? ...
> or do they use that nuclear-reactor-shielding-material-plastic-clamshell that takes a chainsaw to open??
> 
> Will another clicky or an IQ switch fit the tail to replace the stock horrid one??



They are blister packed IIRC, just hanging on peg-board.
I couldn't figure out how to get the switch pill out, I think its pressed in.

Highly unrecommended... not even to tinker/play with. the thread machining on these lights is terrible to say the least.


----------



## p1fiend (Nov 23, 2008)

flashlife said:


> They're " Online Only"...not stocked in the store...


 
Please click my link and then "Ad scans".

These WILL BE IN STORES, but since they are black friday items, you obviously won't see them until black friday. They are one time buy items, not something HD regularly stocks.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 25, 2008)

kramer5150 said:


> Looks a lot like a rebrand of this...
> http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results.phtml?product_id=0275488
> ...(Pics Omitted)
> -15L
> ...



I was by Microcenter today and stopped in and found the light Kramer5150 reviewed above. Luckily, some were not in blister packs, so I could handle them. I dropped in the Energizer lithium from my 1AA EDC to shine this cheapy around the store, test the clicky, etc. The light seems dim for only 5-6 hr off an alkaline...and purple, as Kramer said, and the threading did, in fact, suck. The body is thin Al and the price was $6.99. They came in black and a bright blue body color. The display said "Inland Ultrabright 1 LED", but no flashlights come up when I Google that.

These 'open', handleable lights did not have the keychain lanyard like the Home Depot lights show, but the Micro Center also had the same light, blister packed, with the keychain.

Soooo, bottom line, after looking closely at these little beamers, I wouldn't buy one for $6.99...but I might spring to the 2-for-$4.97 at Home Depot, *IF* they have them in the store, where I can test'em in the parking lot right after I buy them. My local HD, this AM, was unsure-to-doubtful if these lights would actually be available in the store during the Black Friday sale...I'll have to go there and check.


----------



## AFAustin (Nov 25, 2008)

flashlife,

Good of you to update us. Thanks.


----------



## snowlover91 (Nov 28, 2008)

So did anyone get these from HD? I am gonna check ours out and see if they are there, was advertised in our paper.


----------



## Tekstyle (Nov 28, 2008)

I just bought one this morning. the built quality is kind of cheap. but not like it will break under abuse. It's not that bright, but it works fine if you are trying to find something at night in your car or something. I tried to disassemble the head but the board seems to be stamped to the housing. you might need to drill the spots to remove and replace the LED. I am not sure if there's a LED driver. however, there's some space between where the board contacts the battery and the level of the LED.


----------



## snowlover91 (Nov 28, 2008)

Tekstyle said:


> I just bought one this morning. the built quality is kind of cheap. but not like it will break under abuse. It's not that bright, but it works fine if you are trying to find something at night in your car or something. I tried to disassemble the head but the board seems to be stamped to the housing. you might need to drill the spots to remove and replace the LED. I am not sure if there's a LED driver. however, there's some space between where the board contacts the battery and the level of the LED.


 
What would you estimate the lumens at, and what type batteries do these use? Thanks for the help, I might try them out or may stick with my Nitecore D10 on the way!


----------



## Tekstyle (Nov 28, 2008)

They use 1AA. I would say less than 40 lumen. so something similar to a super bright 5mm. 

does anyone know if there's a focused optic that will fit into the housing so i can make this a thrower? Someone said it's very similar to another flashlight above....


----------



## davidt1 (Nov 28, 2008)

I bought a pair today. Can't complain for the price. It's brighter than my Streamlight Nano. The throw is longer too. With the AA battery, I don't feel guilty playing with it all the time.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 28, 2008)

Kramer5150 said "15L" on the MicroCenter light he has...I assume that's 15 lumens, and from the look of the HD lights they're very similar, if not identical to the one he reviewed. 

The LED in the MicroCenter light looked a lot like the one in my RR 2AAA, which is a half watt.

Bright Guy specs say the Streamlight Nano is 10 lumens, so that fits what Davidt1 said.

BTW, it undoubtably DOES have a driver, since white LEDs take about 3.2V min., and you can't get that from 1AA.


----------



## kwalker (Nov 28, 2008)

I picked up 3 packs of these this morning (6 lights for $15) and I'll put one in each car because they have low enough light so it isn't distracting to drivers yet bright enough to see things clearly. The others I'll give away and put one in wife's purse. I also own the River Rock 1AA (like it a lot) and the light output of the Husky seems about 1/2 of the RR. The Husky seems solid, but obviously the build quality isn't up to most CPF'ers standards - it should be able to handle some abuse though.
Hey, it's a light that cost $2.50 and I feel it's much better than the many 9, 12, 19 LED lights out there that cost more money.


----------



## boss429 (Nov 29, 2008)

Here's a link to some pics I took of the 1AA lights taken apart. scroll down 4-5 pictures.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res1yioa/id1.html


----------



## mikekoz (Nov 29, 2008)

I bought a pack of these at the HD in Jacksonville, NC. Pretty nice for $2.50 each! They are bright enough for finding your way around at night, or for looking for things in your car. They have a nice smooth beam also which is really surprising! Neither of mine seen to have a purple tint. The build quality is OK, but the switch may give problems down the road. It has an odd feel to it. The threads need to be cleaned and lubed. The lanyard on one of mine broke! Oh well!! Still glad I got them!

Mike


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 29, 2008)

I picked up a pair this morning. Feels light and cheap compared to a Fenix L1T but not too bad for a $2 flashlight. Light output is slightly better than a Fenix E01. I put it at no more than 15 to 20 lumens. Heres where it gets really bad though. With the supplied heavy duty battery the curent draw is 650 ma. With an alkaline the current draw is 850 ma. So we are talking aprox. 1.25 Watts draw and I would say at best less than 0.1 watt is making it to the LED. I'm guessing the run time wont be much more than an hour. 

Just from changing the battery a few times the threads on the tail cap are getting shiny and rough. But hey. We are flashaholics. Buy a few packs of them. Give them away. Put one in your collection but don't tell anyone it only cost $2. Looking at the husky side by side next to a fenix L1T from a few feet away its hard to tell them apart.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 29, 2008)

I did some more playing around with this husky. I took the head off and connected it up to a variable power supply. Theres something really strange going on with these. At 1.5 Volts the current draw is 850 ma. Slowly decreasing the voltage, at somewhere around 1.3 volts the current draw abruptly drops to about 120 ma with only a very slight change in light output. So with a fresh battery something in the boost circuit is being severely overdriven or saturated. The I continued to decrease the voltage further and the light stays lit right down to 0.2 volts but its getting pretty dim by then. I guess the run time will be considerably greater than the hour or so I stated in my last post.


----------



## tarponbill (Nov 29, 2008)

I got a couple of packs, perfect 'car glove box light'... Stuck a Lithium in them and in the glove box. Not that bright, but works inside the car and bright enough for minor car repair.

For $2.50 how can you go wrong.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 29, 2008)

I got a pair this AM.
WATCH THAT CLICKY !! 
I had to return the 1st pair, since one had a flaky switch (Kramer5150 warned us ! )...anyway the light wouldn't turn OFF, even tho' the switch clicked OK. SO try'em in the parking lot before you drive off.

Out put is about like my RR 2AAA, but the color is whiter and the hotspot is more defined.

An OK buy for $2.50 each.

BTW, having handled this one and the MicroCenter light, I'd say this one is 'better'. The body is heavier alum., color is better, etc. And the prices is right ($2.50 ea at HD vs $#6.99 at MicroCenter).
But the threads DO need cleaning, the O-rings lubing (beeswax is good), etc.


----------



## led4me (Nov 29, 2008)

I bought these yesterday. For $5 for 2, I like it. Brightness as others have said already is similar to RR 2AAA but overall beam is not as wide. The threads are rough and one of the O-rings broke. I couldn't remove the emitter, it turns in place and won't come out.

I charged up some nimh and ran both of them for 1 hour. Then I recharged the nimh in my LaCross bc900. The charger put back 256mah and 249mah. These numbers seem too good based on what Holepuncher was measuring. Any one else with measurements for these lights?


----------



## Photon Joe (Nov 29, 2008)

I got two of these yesterday and posted this morning wondering if anyone else had seen them or had them.
I have no equipment other than a VM so I just tried different batteries in them with varying levels of volts and they fire up bright as they get all the way down to a very low level of juice.
They had to be cleaned before the switches worked right but no problems now.
I thought they looked like fenix but the emitter is strange looking, very small like a 2mm cloudy yellow bubble.
I have no idea what kind of LED is in them.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 29, 2008)

led4me said:


> I bought these yesterday. For $5 for 2, I like it. Brightness as others have said already is similar to RR 2AAA but overall beam is not as wide. The threads are rough and one of the O-rings broke. I couldn't remove the emitter, it turns in place and won't come out.
> 
> I charged up some nimh and ran both of them for 1 hour. Then I recharged the nimh in my LaCross bc900. The charger put back 256mah and 249mah. These numbers seem too good based on what Holepuncher was measuring. Any one else with measurements for these lights?


 
As I said after the battery voltage drops to around 1.3 volts the current draw drops abruptly (its almost like a switch is thrown) so your numbers are probably right. I'll run one till it goes dead and do some measuring.

If you want to get at the emitter just screw the head off. Place it on a hard table with the lens facing up. Get something round, plastic or wood, a little smaller than the lens and push down against the lens hard. The lens, reflector and "barrel" will push out. The barrel is two circuit boards on both sides of a small round plastic cylinder. One circuit board has the led soldered to it. The other is the driver which is a minimal circuit consisting of a small surface mount transistor (it may be some kind of chip - hard to tell) an inductor and a capacitor - hence the poor efficiency and performance.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 29, 2008)

For reference. As I said in an earlier post the husky draws upwards of 800 ma and then drops off. A Fenix E01 draws about 70 ma and is only a little dimmer than the husky. A fenix L1T V2 draws 1.2 A on high and about 160 ma on low. On low the brightness of the L1T blows away the husky by a long shot. 

If the efficiency was on par with the other lights I mentioned, the husky would be a great light for the money - maybe even for twice the money. Right now though I consider it a dim battery eater.


----------



## toolpig1 (Nov 29, 2008)

My local HD had a giant pile of these. I bought one pack, but haven't tried them yet. The emitter looks very similar to the one in my RR 2AAA 0.5 watt.


----------



## DaveG (Nov 29, 2008)

I also got a pack for $5,for the price better than expected.


----------



## Magnus1959 (Nov 29, 2008)

Guess I'm gonna have to check at my Home Depot to see if they have them. Price sounds right.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 29, 2008)

I measured the current on mine at 120ma with a new alkaline in it.

I was gonna run an Energizer e2 lith. primary in it, but if it draws a gazillion ma when over 1.2 v...maybe I'll just stick to cheap alkys.

It won't be my EDC, but for $2.50...


----------



## flashlife (Nov 29, 2008)

Magnus1959 said:


> Guess I'm gonna have to check at my Home Depot to see if they have them. Price sounds right.




The HD flyer at my store says the sale runs thru Mon, Dec 1.
I guess after that you gotta buy'em online-only...and with ~$7.50 shipping, I wouldn't bother.

So Get'em NOW, if you're gonna !! 


BTW the online SKU number to punch into the HD website search is *91072*.


----------



## Magnus1959 (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the information.


----------



## boss429 (Nov 30, 2008)

These are way to cheap to try to take apart. The switches on mine work great+:thumbsup:-$2.50


----------



## Yukon_Jack (Nov 30, 2008)

Before reading this thread, I bought two packs of these lights from Home Depot. I checked all four out in the car before leaving and found two of them had a very nice tint and I was quite pleased with the brightness. Two of them had a blue/purple tint and one of these wouldn't turn off - although the clicky seems to work just fine. I returned two and kept two. 

I cleaned up and lubed the two I kept and play with them all day. Personally, I have never seen a $2.49 led light that used one AA that is even remotely as good as these (provided you make sure they initially work). I didn't have all day, but I burned one for over an hour and it appears to be regulated. Anyway, at these prices they will make a most excellent backup light in the car and kits. I'm not convinced they are reliable enough for a primary EDC - but time will tell. I must say that the clicky feels very solid.

So - I went back to Home Depot and bought 10 more packs for a total of 20 more lights. Out of these 20 - one didn't work. Out of these 20 I found 10 that had a pretty good color and were considerably brighter. I kept 10 for a total of 12 I'm keeping.

I've taken all of the keepers apart and cleaned up the threads and lubed them. Been playing with them all day and no failures. I must say that they are plenty bright enough for a 1AA - great for walking outside or inside. I personally think they are an absolute steal. The fact that they use AA batteries is what sold me on them since I just can't stand all the cheap 3 AAA floating around. 

The construction/assembly of these lights is very poor. I found plastic bits in them and the coating on the threads comes off after just a little use. However the 12 keepers I have all cleaned up nicely and everything screws on nice and tight. 

I got one right next to me at the moment and its been going for about 2 hours now. Can't tell by eye that its dimmer. ZERO heat from the head. In fact, after an hour burning, if can't tell any difference in temperature between the head or the tail. I mean, this thing put out zero heat. Its obviously underdriven which should make for a more reliable light from my experience.

All in all, I would say that this little 1AA light is probably the BEST deal on an LED flashlight that I have ever seen. If you have the time to be picky and get a few of the better ones, they are an outstanding value. The only caveat I have is that I will not know if their clicky and electrics are reliable until I've used one for a long time. I'll let you know if I start getting any failures. Still, I have had clicky failures on $100 plus light more often than I care to mention or think about. I have a feeling that these lights are eventually going to go down as a BEST deal.


----------



## Skibane (Nov 30, 2008)

flashlife said:


> I measured the current on mine at 120ma with a new alkaline in it.



That's exactly what I measured, too.

That's roughly 24 hours of run-time from a single AA alkaline - and as previous stated, with pretty decent brightness regulation.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 30, 2008)

Well I don't know whats up with mine. Both initially draw upwards of 800 ma initially and then drop down to about 220 ma. Thats it. Home depot is 3 minutes from my house. I'm going pick up 2 more packs and see if they do the same thing. I swear though I'm not going there just for these lights. Theres other things I need there for around the house :thinking:


----------



## flashlife (Nov 30, 2008)

Yukon_Jack said:


> ...
> So - I went back to Home Depot and bought 10 more packs for a total of 20 more lights. Out of these 20 - one didn't work.
> 
> The construction/assembly of these lights is very poor. I found plastic bits in them and the coating on the threads comes off after just a little use. However the 12 keepers I have all cleaned up nicely and everything screws on nice and tight.


Thanks, Jack, for that 'statistical' analysis. Since we're playing the odds here with this light, your buy of 20 is the largest "sample size" we've had. And the odds are better than I thought.

I also found plastic bits in the screw threads of the tailcap and head. It appears that the guts of these little beamers are simply pressed in and the threads shear off bits from the plastic disks which form the base of the head/driver and tail switch. I lubed mine with beeswax/vaseline mix and they works very smoothly now. My pair are keepers. 

These, as I've said before, are listed as non-Black Friday items, for "online only" sale on the HD website. SO even after Dec 1, you can still get'em for $4.97 per pair. Maybe, if you buy some other stuff from HD-online along with the lights, the shipping won't eat your lunch so badly.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 30, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I did some more playing around with this husky. I took the head off and connected it up to a variable power supply. Theres something really strange going on with these. At 1.5 Volts the current draw is 850 ma. Slowly decreasing the voltage, at somewhere around 1.3 volts the current draw abruptly drops to about 120 ma with only a very slight change in light output. So with a fresh battery something in the boost circuit is being severely overdriven or saturated. *The I continued to decrease the voltage further and the light stays lit right down to 0.2 volts* but its getting pretty dim by then. I guess the run time will be considerably greater than the hour or so I stated in my last post.



*Holepuncher, what's the lowest voltage they'll turn on at ?*

Since they will run from .2V up, that's really good useage of the battery...BUT if they won't start below say 1.0V, that's not as good.
Can you set your powersupply to 1.5V, then slowly decrease the voltage while clicking the light on and off 'til it won't fire up anymore?

Let us know.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 30, 2008)

Ok I picked up 4 more and they all do the same thing with a fresh alkaline - excessive draw at first. The do not seem to do this with the junk batterys that come with it. Anyone that tried measuring the current draw - Did you use the mA range or the A range on your meter? I used the 10 A range when I did it. I now tried the mA range and get reading around what you guys got. This is because the lower mA ranges have a higher internal resistance. Try it on the A Range.

Edit:
Just want to point out that I see this effect both with a battery in the light and measuring the current at the tail end with a digital multimeter and when the head is connected to the variable power supply which has built in volt and ammeters. Since I have six lights here that do this I'd be willing to bet all that everyone elses does it too.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 30, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Holepuncher, what's the lowest voltage they'll turn on at ?*
> 
> Let us know.


 
I tried it with 3 different heads. Two of them would still turn on at around 0.7 volts. The other would go down to about 0.5 but it would not start every time. Keep in mind though that battery voltage sags under load and then recovers somewhat so as they say mileage mat vary.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 30, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I tried it with 3 different heads. Two of them would still turn on at around 0.7 volts. The other would go down to about 0.5 but it would not start every time. Keep in mind though that battery voltage sags under load and then recovers somewhat so as they say mileage mat vary.



Thanks, .5-.7V start-up is pretty good. Appreciate your taking time to check the start-up, and checking that wierd new battery draw. I checked mine on the 200ma range and it drew 120 ma with a new alkaline.
On the 10A DMM range, it drew .2A. (?) 

If someone can get the driver out, and decipher the driver circuit diagram, we might could figure out why it draws high at >1.5V.

Holepuncher, one final (I swear!) request:
If I read you right, a new alk. *keeps* the current at ~800ma? ie, it doean't just start at 800 the quickly drop back to 120. 
If it starts high with a new alk. then drops back quickly, drop in a AA lithium e2 primary batt and see if the current *stays ~800ma*. Liths linger a long while above 1.5 (typ. ~1.7V ?) that would tell us that it is, indeed, the voltage, not just some odd driver timing issue.

Thanks!


----------



## tarponbill (Nov 30, 2008)

What's the mod potential? I may try my very first mod to another LED since these are so cheap. Anyone get the board out yet?

UPDATE:
Should have asked, how did you get the complete module out, did you just punch it out from the lens end, with something like a wood dowel. I pushed real hard and it still didn't break loose. I will see if I can't get a wood dowel tomorrow and try a hammer -- LOL.

Not expert on the disassembly side yet. Sacrifice for the cause.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 30, 2008)

Yukon_Jack said:


> I didn't have all day, but I burned one for over an hour and it appears to be regulated.


 
These are in no way shape or form regulated. If they were, when I connected them to a variable power supply and slowly reduced the voltage the current draw would have increased as the voltage dropped, but instead the curent decreased. What is probably going on is that with a fresh battery the circuit is grossly inefficient. As the battery drains and the current draw decreases the losses in the circuit decrease as well resulting in a little better efficiency making it appear somewhat regulated. I'm sure the engineers did not plan it that way though.


----------



## flashlife (Nov 30, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> These are in no way shape or form regulated. If they were, when I connected them to a variable power supply and slowly reduced the voltage the current draw would have increased as the voltage dropped, but instead the curent decreased. What is probably going on is that with a fresh battery the circuit is grossly inefficient. As the battery drains and the current draw decreases the losses in the circuit decrease as well resulting in a little better efficiency making it appear somewhat regulated. I'm sure the engineers did not plan it that way though.



Sounds like a simple boost circuit...which makes sense in a light this cheap..
maybe a 2-3 component "Joule Thief" type. ?? ...like this one:
http://cappels.org/dproj/ledpage/leddrv.htm


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 30, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Holepuncher, one final (I swear!) request:
> If I read you right, a new alk. *keeps* the current at ~800ma? ie, it doean't just start at 800 the quickly drop back to 120.
> If it starts high with a new alk. then drops back quickly, drop in a AA lithium e2 primary batt and see if the current *stays ~800ma*. Liths linger a long while above 1.5 (typ. ~1.7V ?) that would tell us that it is, indeed, the voltage, not just some odd driver timing issue.
> 
> Thanks!


 
Ask anything you want. I'm having a ball with these pieces of junk. When I connect these to the variable supply I get 800ma at 1.5 Volts. As I decrease the voltage, somewhere right around 1.3 volts the current draw just suddenly and abruptly drops to around 200 ma. I have not tried measuring for a long period with an alkaline in the tube to see how long it maintains the high draw as I'd have to handhold the test leads there all that time. I'm crazy but not that crazy. I think I have a couple of lithiums but I dont think they are brand new. I'll check and maybe try them.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 30, 2008)

flashlife said:


> If someone can get the driver out, and decipher the driver circuit diagram, we might could figure out why it draws high at >1.5V.


 
You must have missed one of my earlier posts where I mentioned I had the driver out and what it consisted of.


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 30, 2008)

Ok. I pulled the driver out and I almost have the schematic of it done. I have to go out for a couple of hours and I'll finsh later.

flashlife: do you (or anyone else here) have a way to post a picture if I email it to you. I have no way of posting the schematic. I have web space with Verizon but right now I have no FTP software on my computer


----------



## flashlife (Nov 30, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Ok. I pulled the driver out and I almost have the schematic of it done. I have to go out for a couple of hours and I'll finsh later.
> 
> flashlife: do you (or anyone else here) have a way to post a picture if I email it to you. I have no way of posting the schematic. I have web space with Verizon but right now I have no FTP software on my computer



Thanks, Holepuncher...yes, I can post the schematic.
I just sent you a PM, etc, with the 'where to send it' info.

BTW, I use "Photobucket" as a free image host, it's a free sign up, easy, and you don't need FTP or any software.
Link: http://photobucket.com/


----------



## flashlife (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)- Pics & Driver Schematic*

Thanks to *Holepuncher's* hard work, here are the schematic and a close-up of the driver. 
I added an insert-blowup of the 3-pin IC.
I Googled "2100 LED Driver" and variations, but got no relevant hits.

Anyone know what a "2100A" is??
The other #'s in the IC (?) appear to be: "0814/36".

Perhaps, if there's room, someone could switch out that 1uH coil for a 10uH and get more OOMPH!

Thanks, Holepuncher for decoding the circuit and snapping the pics. :thumbsup:

*1. Schematic:*






*2. Driver & LED Boards:*


----------



## flashlife (Nov 30, 2008)

Holepuncher,
Now that I look closely, that IC doohicky looks like it has *4 pins*, 3 on one side, 1 on the other. Does it? The "4th pin" I see off the lower left corner 
of the IC may just be a solder covered board trace. (?)


----------



## Holepuncher (Nov 30, 2008)

Excellent job on the pics flashlife. Had I known you were going to work with the pics I would have sent a better one. I figured we dont want to be posting mega-files here so I set my SLR to its lowest quality and resolution. Some day when I'm not playing with flashlights I'll figure out how to really use that camera.

The center pin is internally connected to the center tab on the opposite side so there really are only three connections to it. I guess its sort of a heat sink. I'll try and play with it some more during the week and see what else I can figure out. Maybe I'll try changing some component values like the inductor as you mentioned.


----------



## Magnus1959 (Nov 30, 2008)

Picked up a pair today. Waiting to get my Fenix E01 in to compare with.


----------



## bobo383 (Nov 30, 2008)

I snagged the pair for $4.99 on black Friday. I'm glad I did not give them for stocking stuffers! One works fine, but the other has gremlins in the switch and won't reliably cut off. I got them because they looked so much like my Fenix I couldn't resist. The quality is pretty poor though. 

However the one that works -- No complaint so far.


----------



## 1996alnl (Nov 30, 2008)

Even though it's the price of a good cup of coffee and a donut i still wouldn't recommend these.
They're junk. I bought a pack and gave it to my kids,by the end of the day the switch was toast on one of them and the other one would flicker on and off as though there was a bad connection.Checked the whole thing over put a new battery in it and it would work okay then it would get warm and the same problem.
My kids are facinated with my "real" lights that's why i bought them these but i think i'll look elsewhere.


----------



## Woods Walker (Nov 30, 2008)

I was in HD today buying some junk and checked them out. However didn't get these as I stopped buying cheap junk lights.


----------



## Skibane (Nov 30, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Anyone that tried measuring the current draw - Did you use the mA range or the A range on your meter? I used the 10 A range when I did it. I now tried the mA range and get reading around what you guys got. This is because the lower mA ranges have a higher internal resistance. Try it on the A Range.



Went back and checked again, using two entirely different DMMs - Both DMMs still read 120 mA, regardless of whether measured on 200 mA full-scale range or 10 amp full-scale range.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 1, 2008)

120ma is about right for a half watt LED on a 1 cell boost circuit I think. I am guessing the 800ma reading someone else had was a bad circuit non typical.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 1, 2008)

There must be some variation in these. I bought a pack today (sample of two). I measured the current draw on mine (10 A range) using:


fresh heavy duty cells supplied (1.6 V)
a fresh alkaline (1.6 V)
a super freshly charged Eneloop hot off the charger (1.45 V)
One of the lights consistently measures between 170 and 180 mA, while the other is between 180 and 190 mA (higher currents at higher voltages).

Both lights have a blue/purple tint and a reasonable beam pattern. For $5 a pair, I might buy some more. The advantage is that if you lose one or break it you won't cry.


----------



## Yukon_Jack (Dec 1, 2008)

Time will tell if these lights have any durability. I have a total of 12. The best out of 24 that I tried. These 12 represent the best beam color and clicky. 

Out of 24, two were faulty. One was the clicker which woudln't turn off and the other was some problem in the head since it wouldn't light up even with a clicker that I knew worked. These problems were instantly obvious and did not "develop" after use. A full day and ahalf of playing with them all and no problems incountered. I must admit that the clicky so far has been more reliable than the clickies I've had on some much more expensive flashlghts. In fact - I'd be interested in hearing from someone who had taken one of these apart to explore if the clicky is garbage and doomed to fail?

Our of the 24, there were probably 8 of them that had an unacceptable color and/or brightness - to the point that I would not even give them as gifts. On the other hand, I purchased 8 of the 3D Maglites in LED at Lowe's and found them all functioned perfectly and all had acceptable color/brightness and returned none of them. The 3D Mags were on sale for $14.95 which is considerably less than they want for just the 3 Watt Mag LED bulb. Go figure - both sold at the same store.

I figure the Mag lites will make an exellent CAR light/club or emergency house light with about a day and ahalf worth of usable light - enough to walk out of a bad situation, light up a flat tire area, or do repairs. I'll be giving those to friends for Christmas since they are an absolutely great functional durable light for the average person - and not bad for my own purposes.

I'll be handing out the 1AA lights as presents to co-workers and will keep a couple for myself.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)- Pics & Driver Schematic*



flashlife said:


> Thanks to *Holepuncher's* hard work, here are the schematic and a close-up of the driver.
> 
> I Googled "2100 LED Driver" and variations, but got no relevant hits.
> 
> *1. Schematic:*


I don't think U1 is anything fancy like an LED driver. I think it is something simple like a transistor, but I'm trying to figure exactly what it could be.

It seems as if the circuit operates like this:



U1 is initially not conducting
C1 charges up through L1 and DIODE until U1 turns on
DIODE now becomes reverse biased and the capacitor discharges through D1 (LED)
When the voltage on C1 drops below a threshold, U1 turns off
U1 turning off causes L1 to dump its current through DIODE into C1 raising its voltage
U1 turns on again while C1 discharges through the LED and the cycle repeats

I'm thinking U1 is some kind of FET, since if the capacitor were to discharge through U1 it would waste a lot of energy, so the "gate" terminal must presumably be high resistance.

If the above circuit operation is correct, I am also not quite sure how it starts up. Something seems not quite right, but I can't pin it down...


----------



## Robocop (Dec 1, 2008)

You know for the cost I really do not believe any of these would be an incredible performer and honestly none should expect otherwise. I will say however that it was lights exactly like these cheap items here that taught me much about tinkering and modding.

If nothing else buy a few and play with them.....try modding them with other circuits or light engines or even try using the existing circuit to drive a better emitter. There have been many times simple,cheap lights such as this brought me many hours of plain old fun just by tearing them up and "trying" to make them better. Sometimes I made them better and sometimes I scrapped the whole thing but again it was fun and a learning experience none the less.

If nothing else I learned through trial and error that there really is a difference between most cheap lights and mid range lights that "look" the same on the outside. I learned to appreciate just about any light regardless of cost and had just as much fun tearing up my crappy lights as I did using my better ones.

With this light you could use the body for a host and even strip the anodizing and polish it for a different look. Swap the emitter with a basic luxeon and maybe even frost that reflector for a smoother beam. I plan on buying a few just to see if I have anything else that will fit inside and if not then I will use the parts for something else whenever I can......I believe that a true flashaholic can find a prize in almost any light if they look at it right.....but then again I am kind of weird so forgive my late night ramblings...


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)- Pics & Driver Schematic*



Mr Happy said:


> I don't think U1 is anything fancy like an LED driver. I think it is something simple like a transistor, but I'm trying to figure exactly what it could be.
> 
> It seems as if the circuit operates like this:
> 
> ...



These little booster circuits are typically blocking oscillators and lot of them start up from inherent electrical noise...either transistor leakage, external noise inducing a small current in the inductor , or a spike from the switch when it's clicked on. It just takes a little starting noise to kick the thing into oscillation.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

If U1 is an NPN transistor, you might get this circuit, but I'd think you'd need a base resistor to limit the base current. ??? Someone with a prototype board, build this and tell us if it works.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

mr happy and flashlife: I still have not figured out what the mystery device is, but I can tell you this. The circuit still functions with the capacitor removed - the led just gets slightly dimmer. What I will do later is measure the frequency of the pulses with my oscilloscope at the bottom of the inductor with and without the capacitor. If the frequency changes then maybe the capacitor is being charged and discharged for timing purposes - but I think its just a smoothing/filter capacitor. 

Flashlife: I messed up on the schematic. Its says the inductor is 1 Uh. I have no idea what the value of it is. The drawing program puts a default value of 1 uH on inductors. Maybe you can edit that out. I'll see if there is a marking on it but my guess is it would be more in the range of 10 - 100 uH. Also I think your NPN schematic could not possbly work. The base would have excessive current supplied to it (maybe even enough to  it) and what would turn it off? If it is an NPN the inductor would have to be connected to the collector. A mosfet is a possibility. Maybe I will unsolder it and see if I can figure out what it really is.

I still don't understand why I'm the only one seeing the initial high current draw with a fresh alkaline. Once it gets past that though everything is fine. I left one of these running all night and it was still shining this morning.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> ...
> 
> Flashlife: I messed up on the schematic. Its says the inductor is *1 Uh*. I have no idea what the value of it is. The drawing program puts a default value of 1 uH on inductors. *Maybe you can edit that out.* I'll see if there is a marking on it but my guess is it would be more in the range of *10 - 100 uH*.



Holepuncher,
I edited the pics to show the inductor as "X uH", ie , unknown.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Holepuncher,
> I edited the pics to show the inductor as "X uH", ie , unknown.



Ok Great. 

If you give me a compelling reason that the NPN version might work I can breadboard it easy enough. I'm at work now but I'm sure I'll have some more info about the circuit this afternoon.

In the mean time lets put our heads together on this. We need to find a good emitter on a 17mm round board for under $5. Then If we can figure a mod to the circuit to get a several hundred ma into the emitter we can have a 75+ Lumen screamer for under $10. Sadly I don't think we will be able to get that much from that circuit.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Ok Great.
> 
> If you give me a compelling reason that the NPN version might work I can breadboard it easy enough. I'm at work now but I'm sure I'll have some more info about the circuit this afternoon.
> 
> In the mean time lets put our heads together on this. We need to find a good emitter on a 17mm round board for under $5. Then If we can figure a mod to the circuit to get a several hundred ma into the emitter we can have a 75+ Lumen screamer for under $10. Sadly I don't think we will be able to get that much from that circuit.


Sorry, I don't have a compelling reason that the NPN circuit might work.
In fact, I doubt it...too much base current. (??)

One thing to try, is to cut one of the LED leads and measure the LED current. That'd give you some idea of the drive you might get for a brighter LED, Luxeon, etc. 
And rather than breadboarding the NPN circuit, you might just de-solder the U1 part and solder in a good old 2N2222, and see what happens. 

Just ideas...you're the one with the soldering iron.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> The circuit still functions with the capacitor removed - the led just gets slightly dimmer.


Ah, thank you. I was wondering about that.

The puzzle about that capacitor is that if it is a reservoir capacitor then the voltage on terminal 3 of U1 is going to hover around the Vf of the LED, and therefore is going to be higher than the voltage reachable by terminal 1 when there is a conduction path between terminals 1 and 2.

What we need is a device that is conducting between 1 and 2 when V3 is higher than V1, and which turns off sharply when V3 becomes lower than V1. That would allow inductor current to build up while the capacitor is discharging through the LED, and would direct the inductor current through the diode to recharge the capacitor as soon as the capacitor voltage dropped low enough. An SCR maybe?

An oscilloscope trace at both terminals of U1 would sure be interesting...


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> An oscilloscope trace at both terminals of U1 would sure be interesting...


 
Ok I'm home now. I'll go downstairs in a little while and a) try and get a picture of the scope traces and b)measure the current into the LED.

I have never taken a picture of a scope trace. Can it even be done since in reality the trace is a dot moving across the screen? 

If I'm successful will you post the pics again flashlife?


What would you guys do. Its a beautiful day here in Rhode Island. Thus far this season I have raked about thirty bags of leaves. I have about 20 more to go. If the wife come home and finds me playing with a flashlight the roof might blow off the house.


----------



## Illum (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)- Pics & Driver Schematic*



Mr Happy said:


> I don't think U1 is anything fancy like an LED driver. I think it is something simple like a transistor, but I'm trying to figure exactly what it could be.




I'm looking up SOT-233 4 pin ICs....is the center pin [or rather, tab] Vout or GND?


----------



## Magnus1959 (Dec 1, 2008)

> Both lights have a blue/purple tint and a reasonable beam pattern.


Mine was white but my E01 came with a purple tint.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)- Pics & Driver Schematic*



Illum_the_nation said:


> I'm looking up SOT-233 4 pin ICs....is the center pin [or rather, tab] Vout or GND?


 
The center tab and the middle pin are internally connected on the device so the best I can tell its a 3 terminal device with the tab also being a heat sink


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

OOPS. 1 down, 5 to go. I was taking the oscilloscope measurments and trying to operate the camera and the probe slipped and . It dont work anymore:thumbsdow. Have to take another one apart. $2.50 down the drain. I wont be able to sleep tonight


----------



## davidt1 (Dec 1, 2008)

You guys lost me with all the circuits and stuff. My local HD still about 30 packs of them. Although the pair I bought work fine, I am not sure I will buy another pair. The clicky design on the tail sucks big time. This applies to all tail end clickly designs. Twisty on the head would be a better design. You are supposed to point the light at a source away from you. Unless you are using two hands, that can't be done with tail end clicky.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 1, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> You guys lost me with all the circuits and stuff.


Sorry about that 



> My local HD still about 30 packs of them.


Yeah, mine had stacks of them yesterday.



> You are supposed to point the light at a source away from you. Unless you are using two hands, that can't be done with tail end clicky.


In theory, you hold the light in your fist at shoulder height, fingers outward, thumb towards you, and click on with the thumb. Some lights make this much easier than others of course.

Personally I don't like tail switches either. I think they are used because they are easy to manufacture, not because they are ergonomically sound. I am always on the lookout for lights with side switches like Mags have.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> You guys lost me with all the circuits and stuff. My local HD still about 30 packs of them. Although the pair I bought work fine, I am not sure I will buy another pair. The clicky design on the tail sucks big time. This applies to all tail end clickly designs. Twisty on the head would be a better design. You are supposed to point the light at a source away from you. Unless you are using two hands, that can't be done with tail end clicky.


 
I cant believe all the people complaining about a $2 flashlight. Come on. Complaining that its a rear clicky!!! Why did you buy it? I have a solution for you. Turn the switch on and leave it on. Twist the head and now you have a twisty. When you twist the head the end of the barrel disconnects from the circuit board much the way most twistys work.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> ...The clicky design on the tail sucks big time. This applies to all tail end clickly designs. Twisty on the head would be a better design. *You are supposed to point the light at a source away from you. Unless you are using two hands, that can't be done with tail end clicky.*


Try it like this...this is a Microstream, but applies well to 'recessed' tail clickies, like on the HD lights:





Photo courtesy of BrightGuy.com.


----------



## Photon Joe (Dec 1, 2008)

The HD near me only had six left so I got them all.
Only one had an iffy switch but a cleaning fixed that,
in fact after cleaning them all they were all brighter and very reliable.
I will keep three for glove box, loaner, and edc (for those who ask for a light for a minute) and keep my regular edc's out of the hands of the heathen. 
The others I will give as gifts, since all non flashies 
I have shown them to _love _them. 
They will then stop asking me for a loaner


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Ok I'm home now. I'll go downstairs in a little while and a) try and get a picture of the scope traces and b)measure the current into the LED.
> 
> I have never taken a picture of a scope trace. Can it even be done since in reality the trace is a dot moving across the screen?
> 
> ...



*Scope Trace Photo: *
Put the camera on a tripod, it's gotta be absolutely still.
Set a very slow shutter speed or equivalent.
Turn OFF the camera flash.
Stabilize the scope trace until there's no movement (jiggling, etc).
Set the scope for high brightness and high contrast, if it has those options.
Click away.
----------
The camera will 'average' the moving dot if the sweep rate is fast enough and the camera speed is slow enough. 
It's like taking pics off a TV...it'll work. 

*Pic Posting:* _Yes_, just email'em to me, along with any comments about how you want'em shown ( ie, 'blow this part up', 'emphasize that', 'lighten/darken/gamma-correct', etc). Or just leave it up to me.
I'll be glad to post them.

*Raking Leaves vs Analyzing Circuitry:*
This is the hard one... BUT, remember, this is a hobby. 
Don't get in trouble with "the Boss". :naughty:

*Off Topic:*
I managed to get a Streamlight Microstream today ( "It's my birthday, Sweetie!:mecry: " ). 
What a neat little light!
It absolutely outshines these HD cheapies...but they're fun to play with.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

flashlife said:


> I managed to get a Streamlight Microstream today ( "It's my birthday, Sweetie!:mecry: " ).
> What a neat little light!
> It absolutely outshines these HD cheapies...but they're fun to play with.


 
Happy birthday. 

I sent the pics. Post however you want or whatever way is easiest. Or, Maybe you could superimpose them on the schematic and it will be easier to visualize.

Oh yeah. She did not come home yet but I ran out and did one bag of leaves just so it looks like I did something. Now back to the more important stuff:thinking:


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Happy birthday.
> 
> I sent the pics. Post however you want or whatever way is easiest. Or, Maybe you could superimpose them on the schematic and it will be easier to visualize.
> 
> Oh yeah. She did not come home yet but I ran out and did one bag of leaves just so it looks like I did something. Now back to the more important stuff:thinking:



Thanks!

You're living a dangerous life there, Puncher. 

I got'em, pics will be up shortly...


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm getting to old for this stuff guys. My eyes suck. I have two, thats right two pairs of reading glasses on my head trying to see this tiny crap on that ciruit board. I'm only 49. Hate to see when I hit 60.

Anyway I have more info. There is know way the unidentified part is a transistor or a mosfet. I was holding out hope for a mosfet on mr happy's suggestion but it aint so. It gets even stranger though.

I cut the trace on the board going to the pin marked 3 on the schematic. Led does not light. I grounded pin 3. Led does not light. I connected pin 3 directly to the + 1.5v power source. The led lights. By accident I shorted pin 3 to pin 1 and the led lights :thinking:. Either way though the led is not as bright as with pin 3 connected normally.

This should be easy for me! I'm an electronic engineer and have been playing with electronics since I was 9. I must be getting old because I'm stumped. For sure its some kind of driver/boost chip. The normally connected pin 3 would suggest a feedback signal for regulation but the light is definetly not regulated. 

Waiting for some suggestions.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher's scope waveform check of U1:


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

Great job there on the pics flashlife. We make a great team.

You asked about the led current. Its only about 25 mA:mecry:. But, theres always a but, when I get that initial 800 ma current draw its up around 50 ma.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

OK then...
U1 is an *IC driver* of some sort.
Perhaps *this one* (scroll down about 1/3 page for info),
with an extra cap and diode. (???)

http://www.talkingelectronics.com/projects/LEDTorchCircuits/LEDTorchCircuits-P1.html
Pics follow:









The PDF info sheet from Prema is here:
http://www.prema.com/pdf/whiteleddriver.pdf

Nifty little chip...wonder where we can get some "samples" ??
As shown in the bottom pic, the driver supplies about 20ma, IIRC, but with the cap and isolation diode that might jump to your measured 25ma.

However, looking closer at it, I don't think the inductor, etc of the PR4401 are conected like the HD light diagram. ???


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 1, 2008)

Ah, flashlife got in ahead while I was composing this post, but I'll go ahead and post it anyway. More thoughts are better than fewer.

So OK, the slope of the bottom line on the inductor side trace shows there is some resistance between pins 1 and 2. I read the trace as showing that as the current builds up in the inductor, the voltage on pin 1 slowly rises above ground. When the voltage reaches some threshold the pin 1-2 connection goes open circuit and the inductor discharges through the diode into the capacitor, producing the large voltage spike seen.

The trace on the LED side shows the spike as it happens, followed by the reservoir voltage on the capacitor slowly discharging through the LED. Pin 3 does appear as if it would be some kind of feedback signal to regulate the voltage.

Could the mystery chip be some kind of custom chip? Or is it some really simple mass market LED driver chip that exists due to the desire of everyone to produce cheap LED flashlights these days?


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

flashlife said:


> OK then...
> U1 is an *IC driver* of some sort.
> Perhaps *this one*


 
Well it must be somthing along those lines but our beast does not have a direct vcc connection.

Now looking at our scope traces, the one on the right shows the voltage across the led. It sits mostly at the forward voltageof the led and gets a steady pulse each time the inductor dumps. What we need to do to get more current into the led is increase the amplitude of those blips or the width of those blips.

One thing I'm thinking is the diode in schematic is just a general pupose 1N4148. Maybe one of those low forward drop rectifiers would improve things a little (schotty or something like that I think they are called)

We'll see if anyone else chimes in with some ideas.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

I just realized I must be losing my mind. I have 6 fenix flashlights (including the L2D Q5) several Inovas, several River Rocks and the list goes on. And here I am trying to make a $2 flashlight kick butt.:shakehead


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Here's a comparison of the standard PR4401 circuit vs the HD circuit, if it used a PR4401:

*Standard PR4401:*






*'HD version' using PR4401 (changed or added parts in Green)*:





Wonder if it would work with the inductor between Vcc and the batt. , the diode & cap added, etc ??

I'm a chemist, not an EE...Soooo, you 'sparkys' maybe figure it out from the PR4401 block diagram.:thinking:


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I just realized I must be losing my mind. I have 6 fenix flashlights (including the L2D Q5) several Inovas, several River Rocks and the list goes on. And here I am trying to make a $2 flashlight kick butt.:shakehead


Ah, but it's about the journey not the destination. There's no challenge involved in buying ready made lights. You switch them on, they work, OK, what's next?


----------



## tarponbill (Dec 1, 2008)

I would say that the mystery circuit is voltage sensitive, tries to maintain a constant voltage across the LED, when it falls below a threshold, dumps another slug of current through the inductor into the cap. The fact there is no resistor in the ground side of the LED, strongly suggests it's voltage sensing. Must be a resistor divider inside the chip to drop the voltage down for switching ... probably just be a transistor junction internal to the chip as the switch, pretty rough I would think. Since there is apparently no +V connect to the chip, my guess would be just a transistor doing the switching. Also explains why the cap is needed, to smooth out switching.

Might explain why the variation in readings amongst different lights, the switching junction voltage would be fairly temperature sensitive.

The scope trace across the LED shows a down droop that triggers the chip to turn on and energize the inductor.

It's pretty straight forward, just a switching chip of some sort. Charge up the inductor, then let it flywheel into the LED and cap, until the voltage drops below the trip threshold. -- Wash rinse, repeat.

If we could know what chip it was, it would be a lot easier. Mostly just guessing here ---


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I just realized I must be losing my mind. I have 6 fenix flashlights (including the L2D Q5) several Inovas, several River Rocks and the list goes on. And here I am trying to make a $2 flashlight kick butt.:shakehead



*It's the "CHALLENGE" thing.* :naughty:

Yeah, probably more trouble than it's worth.

Easiest mods for more brightness are probably:
1. Substitute more inductance. (200 - 500uH ?)
2. Substitute a 50uF cap for the 10.

Here ends the analysis, for me.

If anybody does get more zoom out of it, please come back and update us.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Wonder if it would work with the inductor between Vcc and the batt. , the diode & cap added, etc ??
> 
> I'm a chemist, not an EE...Soooo, you 'sparkys' maybe figure it out from the PR4401 block diagram.:thinking:


 
Do you just mix chemicals together any old way. If you connect electronic parts together any old way you get sparks and 's.

You are quite good at manipulating pictures though:laughing:

I'll have to study the pr4401 but I dont think it will work connected any other way.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Ah, but it's about the journey not the destination. There's no challenge involved in buying ready made lights. You switch them on, they work, *OK, what's next?*



*Next:*
_* (During the Day)*_
1. Compare the new light to each of your old lights by wall hunting, ceiling bounce, etc...then...
2. Having the comparative brightness data from 1., measure the tail-cap current of all your lights, and calculate their relative efficiencies.
3. Compare the efficiencies in 2. vs your new light. Better?
4. Shine the new light up and down the dark hallway 'til you wife/GF complains.
5. Blind the dog 'til your wife/GF complains.
*Then*
*(When it gets dark outside)*
6. Redo the comparison you did in 1. above, in the backyard, lighting up trees, the patio, the pool, etc.
7. Light up the neighbors' houses and trees until the Police arrive...:shrug:


----------



## flashlife (Dec 1, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Do you just mix chemicals together any old way. If you connect electronic parts together any old way you get sparks and 's.
> 
> You are quite good at manipulating pictures though:laughing:
> 
> I'll have to study the pr4401 but I dont think it will work connected any other way.



Thanks. 

No, I did my any-old-way mixing back in my youth (~1963), when the 'authorities' were more tolerant of backyard smoke, and teenage hijinks. 

Electronics has been a hobby for several years, especially since "home chemistry" has a bad connotation.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 1, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Ah, but it's about the journey not the destination. There's no challenge involved in buying ready made lights. You switch them on, they work, OK, what's next?


 
Whats next? Well that depends. Some where in an earlier post I mentioned finding a high power emitter to fit this light. Out of the question with this driver. Never get enough out of this driver although a more efficient emitter could be beneficial but probably not worth it. Right now I have the led from the board I  'ed connected to my variable supply running at 80 ma in the reflector. Compared to the stock light its quite bright. I'll let run overnight and see if there is any noticeable color shift or dimming. 

Now it may be possible to change one or two things on the driver to get 80 ma out of it. If I or "WE" come up with something it could turn this into a much nicer light if only for the fun of it.

So the question is: How many here are interested in modding their light?


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 1, 2008)

Well, I think I am going to buy a few more of them on the way home from work tonight. The way I figure it, I could not buy the emitter, inductor and capacitor separately for $2.50 so if nothing else I can use them for parts to play with. One thing I might use them for is to practice small scale soldering.


----------



## Sir Lightalot (Dec 1, 2008)

I picked a pair of these up yesterday and I'm very satisfied. They turned our to be very nice lights after being cleaned and lubed. The pair i got had very warm tints to my surprise. I find it hard to believe they are only driven at 25ma as they are definatly brighter than my E01 which is also driven at 25ma. 
Anyone want to try to mod one with an XP-E?


----------



## tspikewell (Dec 1, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)- Pics & Driver Schematic*



flashlife said:


> Thanks to *Holepuncher's* hard work, here are the schematic and a close-up of the driver.
> I added an insert-blowup of the 3-pin IC.
> I Googled "2100 LED Driver" and variations, but got no relevant hits.
> 
> ...




Hi All.

Thought I'd give you all my two cents worth and thanks for the schematic.

From what I see, this U1 is a enhancement mode FET. Until the gate voltage is applied at 03, there is no current path between 01(source) and 02(drain). As soon as 03 reaches the Vg, the enhancement mode is entered and the path between 01 and 02 is formed. Here's how I think it works:

On startup, U1's 01 and 02 are not continuous, but as soon as voltage at 03 reaches Vcc-Vd, the gate closes the 01 to 02 path, causing the circuit to instantly change to a high current, short circuit through the battery and the inductor to ground. Now that all the current is flowing through that pathway, the voltage at 03 falls below Vg, causing the gate to open the 01 to 02 pathway, instantly switching from a short circuit to a working circuit sending it's large current to flow through the diode (protection diode) and through the LED and smoothing capacitor. Now the voltage at 03 rises again, causing the 01 to 02 path to "short circuit" and high current to build in this short circuited loop, and the cycle repeats itself.

Changing the inductor, Vl=L*di/dt, would cause a higher voltage across it, and therefore a higher current when the switch occurs. Unfortunately, I think that is the easiest way to increase the current, which is what you would want to do to increase the light output.

We know that these white LED's require 3.7 volts to operate, so the average voltage of this circuit must be in that ballpark.

The diode keeps the current from flowing backwards.

I have purchased a supply of these and have only opened one package. Yes, the threads are awfully dry, and a quick brushing took care of that. Also, the edge on the caps is sharp and not necessarily chamfered the right way, so a quick spin of an x-acto knife has added a nice chamfer. One of my lights is drawing 130mA, blue beam and not well focused. The other light is drawing 86mA, has a nice white light, and is well focused. The caps are a joy to remove and replace and don't pinch the o-rings once a light coating of lubricant is applied to the threads and o-rings.

cheers.

tspikewell

(also very tired of multiple LED, three-AAA powered lights)


----------



## toolpig1 (Dec 2, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I just realized I must be losing my mind. I have 6 fenix flashlights (including the L2D Q5) several Inovas, several River Rocks and the list goes on. And here I am trying to make a $2 flashlight kick butt.:shakehead


 
I have followed this thread with great amusement. Never have I seen any flashlight on CPF receive such vigorous and thorough analysis. I was reading the above quote just as my wife asked why I waste money on junk flashlights when I have so many really good ones.
I don't know. Here's my review: It's a POS that's certainly worth $2.49, but I returned them.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

toolpig1 said:


> I have followed this thread with great amusement. Never have I seen any flashlight on CPF receive such vigorous and thorough analysis. I was reading the above quote just as my wife asked why I waste money on junk flashlights when I have so many really good ones.
> I don't know. Here's my review: It's a POS that's certainly worth $2.49, but I returned them.



Wow see whats happening here. This light has warped everyones mind because his last statement makes no sense. Then he wasted time and gas returning them. Was he expecting the equivalent of a $50 fenix light? Lets face it. There are worse lights you can buy for 3 times the price. When I get this $2 light to blow the doors off my L2DQ5 he'll come crawling back


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

Success. I unsoldered the chip from the board and have it on the breadboard and playing with various component values. I have reached 100ma into the LED. With the reflector on the LED it blows away the stock light with a nice round center hotspot to boot.

:nana: to the naysayers and party poopers

Oh Yeah. Almost forgot. I have identified the chip and have the data sheet on it. If anyone wants it PM me.


----------



## danielo_d (Dec 2, 2008)

toolpig1 said:


> I have followed this thread with great amusement. Never have I seen any flashlight on CPF receive such vigorous and thorough analysis. I was reading the above quote just as my wife asked why I waste money on junk flashlights when I have so many really good ones.
> I don't know. Here's my review: It's a POS that's certainly worth $2.49, but I returned them.



Have we forgotten the Dorcy 1AAA? I modded several of my Dorcys to 1/2 Watters just for s&g's. [Quite a few members modded their dorcys to 1watters.] 
Of course I bought a pair of these Husky 1AAs! Currently still playing with 'em un-modded. 
Just biding my time til the I can no longer resist the mod urge. :nana:
Regards, Everyone!

Oh, good work, Holepuncher!
Expect a PM in a bit. =)


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

danielo_d said:


> Have we forgotten the Dorcy 1AAA? I modded several of my Dorcys to 1/2 Watters just for s&g's. [Quite a few members modded their dorcys to 1watters.]


 
+1 on what danielo wrote. I thought thats what these forums were about - some people like to mod lights. Why risk an expensive light thats probably already plenty bright to start with.

I think these huskys are a good platform for mods. They are nice looking, slightly well made and I picked up two more today for a total of eight. All have worked fine except for the one I 'ed. No bad switches that some are complaining about. Recently I bought a fenix that did not work right.


----------



## toolpig1 (Dec 2, 2008)

Holepuncher, no disrespect intended. I can appreciate the fun you guys have tinkering with these cheap lights. For me, a guy who uses them right out of the package (except for an easy drop-in), it's a different situation. I've realized that if I add up what I've spent on crappy lights, it probably amounts to a couple of fantastic Eagletacs. Yikes!

BTW- I'm a 10 minute walk or 2 minute drive from Home Depot. My profession as a contractor has me stopping in there frequently. No need to make a special trip to return a $5 item.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

Toolpig. I was just kidding with you. Thats why I put the smile at the end. I just found it funny that as a flashaholic you knowingly bought a cheap light and then took it back and you metioned your wife questioning why you buy them. I think I have at least 20 cheap lights thrown in a drawer never to be used again and I'm sure I'll be adding more to the junk collection.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 2, 2008)

Holepuncher,
Go ahead and tell us how you got *100ma* into the LED. :shrug:
I might try it one one of mine.
Also, just 'cause I can't resist, post a link to that chip datasheet or email it to me
and I'll try to post it...or at least tell us what it is so we can research it.

I guess you saw this thread, where Yukon-Jack got 6 hrs bright and 8 more moon-mode out of the stock light...not bad for $2.50, as has been said many times here. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/214629


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

Flashlife

I did not think too many would be interested in the data sheet other than myself, you and mr happy so I figured you guys could just contact me. Just google AIC1642 for the pdf file. I'm still working out a few details on the 100ma mod but it involves a larger cap, a schotty diode in place of the existing diode and resistor divider in the "feedback" path.

Yeah I seen yukon jacks post. I dont know why no one else is getting the initial high draw but I picked up two more today and they do it as well. But as I said in an earlier post once it gets past that everything is fine and I had one of these running for over 10 hours and it was still going pretty good.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

One significant thing I have discovered. By just substituting the larger capacitor and the schottky diode the circuit becomes well regulated. As I lower the supply voltage the current draw goes up and the led current remains nearly constant and likewise as I increase the supply the current draw goes down right up until 3 or so volts at which point the driver shuts down and the led remains lit via direct drive through the inductor.

I wish someone else would breadboard this thing. Two heads are better than one and I'm willing to bet there is a simple under $1 mod here that will at least double the brightness of this light, improve the regulation and improve the efficiency. I'm working on it but I could use some help. Stop shining your flashlights around the back yard and get to work here.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

I forgot to mention in my last post. Just substituting the larger cap and the diode increases the current to the led. I did not measure but it is brighter. So, that in itself is a good simple mod as it provides regulation as well. I have been playing with the feedback path and there is where I get a big increase in led current but I seem to lose the regulation.


----------



## darknessemitter (Dec 2, 2008)

One odd thing I've noticed is that some of these lights have slightly smaller emitters. The dome is the same size but the phosphor coated part is smaller; I am not sure if the actual die itself is a different size. 

I have a couple of both, and there doesn't seem to be an obvious difference between them in output. At first I thought maybe the larger one would be a multi-die LED like in the River Rock 2xAAA, but it looks like both versions in the Husky have only one pair of conductor wires in the die. 

Overall, I'm fairly pleased with these lights considering the price. I like to think of them as a VERY cheaply made version of the Inova X1 Gen 2 (well more like the Gen 2 than the Gen 1 or 3). A handy low output 1xAA light that you don't have to worry about losing.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 2, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I wish someone else would breadboard this thing.


I'm sorry, but I'm at work for another few hours and after I get home I'll still need to find some time to play 

I noticed the example circuit includes an input bypass capacitor on the supply side that the light does not apparently have. I wonder if you have tried that and found it to make any difference?


----------



## Illum (Dec 2, 2008)

toolpig1 said:


> I have followed this thread with great amusement. Never have I seen any flashlight on CPF receive such vigorous and thorough analysis.



boy have you missed out on some of the nicest threads this forum have come to pass:thumbsup:

I love threads like this...this is what CPF was about before everything became a performance issue:twothumbs

Literally edge of seat reading since page 1


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

Mr Happy:

Take a leave of absence. The hell with work. This is more important. Call in sick. Lie. Say there was a death in the family. Fake your own death.:sick2:

I'll tell you what I did in case you have one of those protoboards with all the holes in it. Unsolder + remove everything except for the driver chip. Take three short pieces of #22 wire, tin the ends and tack them to the 3 pins of the chip then plug the whole thing into the breadboard. Worked out great.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 2, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I forgot to mention in my last post. Just substituting the larger cap and the diode increases the current to the led. I did not measure but it is brighter. So, that in itself is a good simple mod as it provides regulation as well. I have been playing with the feedback path and there is where I get a big increase in led current but I seem to lose the regulation.




_*Holepuncher*_,
For the sake of us parts-poor-wannabe modders, that don't have any Schottkys lying around, tell us approx. what value cap increases the LED current (up to 50mA or so?), *with the original diode in place*...:naughty:.

That would be a quick-n-easy mod to do to get more output...I think.

_Or ...to re-phrase_:
"If you could *ONLY* change the cap, what cap value would *you* use to increase the output?"

BTW, do you lose the good regulation if you just increase the cap and don't add the schottky?

(Please):twothumbs

Thanks.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 2, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> boy have you missed out on some of the nicest threads this forum have come to pass:thumbsup:
> 
> I love threads like this...this is what CPF was about before everything became a performance issue:twothumbs
> 
> Literally edge of seat reading since page 1


 
Thank you. I was starting to question my sanity. So is my wife.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 2, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Mr Happy:
> 
> Take a leave of absence. The hell with work. This is more important. Call in sick. Lie. Say there was a death in the family. Fake your own death.:sick2:
> ...



I think we all owe *Holepuncher* a gigantic round of *applause* for the effort he's put into trying to make these the brightest, most well regulated 2.5-buck lights in the known universe. :twothumbs :twothumbs :twothumbs :goodjob:

Thanks !!


----------



## Illum (Dec 2, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Thank you. I was starting to question my sanity. So is my wife.



most threads Mr. Happy participates usually turns out alot of technical oriented information, reminds me of user NewBie before he retired from the forum

According to NewBie [citation link here: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/zetex.htm ]


NewBie said:


> The ZXSC310 is an extremely low end converter chip, used in many very cheap Chinese flashlights, and runs under 0.36 dollars each in the US, and even cheaper in Asia. It doesn't take very long for even a slow person to realize why, since they are trying to maximize their profit margins. This helps to make it one of the most popular converter/switcher chips on the market for very low end flashlights.



It seemed fitting to probe Zetex's indexes for chips...so here goes

could the driver be any of these?
ZXSC380 - Cost Effective Single Cell LED Driver [info] [datasheet pdf]




ZXLD381FHTA - Single or Multi Cell LED Driver Solution - Zetex Semiconductors
[datasheet here]
On page 5, the schematic looks very familiar to the one flashlife posted


----------



## toolpig1 (Dec 2, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> boy have you missed out on some of the nicest threads this forum have come to pass:thumbsup:
> 
> I love threads like this...this is what CPF was about before everything became a performance issue:twothumbs
> 
> Literally edge of seat reading since page 1


 
I must admit, this is the most fascinating thread I've seen in the relatively short period of time since finding CPF. I feel somewhat like an intruder coming between Flashlife and Holepuncher in their quest to dissect and improve this lowly little light. I've often wondered why guys purchase fairly decent lights only to tear them apart. It makes a heck of alot more sense to start with a $2.50 light. I wanted to reply to your comment about everything being a performance issue. It does seem to be about lumens and beamshots these days, although the manufacturers are certainly feeding the frenzy. What do I know, I still really like my propoly 4AA luxeon.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 2, 2008)

toolpig1 said:


> ... I feel somewhat like an intruder coming between Flashlife and Holepuncher in their quest to dissect and improve this lowly little light. I've often wondered why guys purchase fairly decent lights only to tear them apart. It makes a heck of alot more sense to start with a $2.50 light. I wanted to reply to your comment about everything being a performance issue. It does seem to be about lumens and beamshots these days, although the manufacturers are certainly feeding the frenzy. What do I know, I still really like my propoly 4AA luxeon.



You're not an intruder, all ideas and comments are welcome, to my mind. 

It's like holepuncher said a few posts back (paraphrasing):
If you can do a $1 mod on a $2.50 light and wind up with a bright, pretty-regulated, longish-running light, then that's $3.50 (+labor) well spent.

...and look at all the fun we're having...

Regarding performance, lumens, beamshots...don't forget "which anodize does it have?", "will it scratch up in your pocket?", and my favorite: " It's a great light! It's got 500 lumens, 39 modes, and runs for 3.6 minutes on an AA !"


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 2, 2008)

flashlife said:


> "which anodize does it have?"


I don't think this one has any anodizing. As far as I can tell it is just black paint. If you test the "Husky" logo on the side with a meter probe it is bare conductive metal. I guess it's time to clean off the paint and get out the home anodizing bath...


----------



## JWP_EE (Dec 2, 2008)

I used the Zetex ZXSC300 a few years ago to built my own LED light. It used an external FET transistor. The ZXSC380 has incorporated the FET inside it. It is a great little chip to play around with.


----------



## toolpig1 (Dec 2, 2008)

flashlife said:


> " It's a great light! It's got 500 lumens, 39 modes, and runs for 3.6 minutes on an AA !"


 
I nominate the 2008 quote of the year!


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> I think we all owe *Holepuncher* a gigantic round of *applause* for the effort he's put into trying to make these the brightest, most well regulated 2.5-buck lights in the known universe. :twothumbs :twothumbs :twothumbs :goodjob:
> 
> Thanks !!



Well while we're at it lets give Flashlife round of applause for starting this thread. I think a lot of us have had some good fun and amusement here. Plus we're learning.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> _*Holepuncher*_,
> For the sake of us parts-poor-wannabe modders, that don't have any Schottkys lying around, tell us approx. what value cap increases the LED current (up to 50mA or so?), *with the original diode in place*...:naughty:.
> 
> That would be a quick-n-easy mod to do to get more output...I think.
> ...



I have to steal some various capacitors from work today and play around some more. What I am using right now is a 220uF and its rated 50v so its bigger than the whole board. I think it will work with something smaller. theres probably some value at which further increases will make little difference. As far as Schottkys, their not hard to find or expensive. Any electronics store/distributor should have them. Not sure about Rad Shack. If you have a trashed solar garden light you will more than likely find one in it. Its used to isolate the solar cell from the battery at night. I'll have more info this afternoon I hope.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I don't think this one has any anodizing. As far as I can tell it is just black paint. If you test the "Husky" logo on the side with a meter probe it is bare conductive metal. I guess it's time to clean off the paint and get out the home anodizing bath...



I'm pretty sure these are anodized. It does not peel/flake off like paint when you scratch it and how/why did they "paint" the inside of the tube so well and not get paint on the places were there needs to be electrical contact? The husky logo was engraved on there

What the heck are you doing here talking about anodizing. You are supposed to be doing some testing on this thing. Its hard to find good help these days

Edit. Actually after taking a close look with good light and a magnifier you might be right. Looks like paint.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

toolpig1 said:


> I I feel somewhat like an intruder coming between Flashlife and Holepuncher in their quest to dissect and improve this lowly little light.



Gosh Darn it. Could you please refrain from calling it a lowly light. It hurts my feelings . 
Chime in anytime toolpig. No intrusion on your part.:thumbsup:


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I have to steal some various capacitors from work today and play around some more. What I am using right now is a *220uF and its rated 50v so its bigger than the whole board.* I think it will work with something smaller. theres probably some value at which further increases will make little difference. As far as Schottkys, their not hard to find or expensive. Any electronics store/distributor should have them. Not sure about Rad Shack. If you have a trashed *solar garden light* you will more than likely find one in it. Its used to isolate the solar cell from the battery at night. I'll have more info this afternoon I hope.



Thanks, *Holepuncher*. Yes, as luck would have it, I *do* have some disfunctional solar lights (don't we all?). 
I'll rip into one.
Regarding that 220uF cap, if you can 'borrow' some *tantalum* caps, they're usually smaller, and probably 10V is enough of a rating. But then, you're the EE, so you know all this.

Thanks, *Toolpig1*, for the 'nomination'.
I'm just full of good quotes...in fact, my wife tells me I'm "full of it!" quite often.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Thanks, *Holepuncher*. Yes, as luck would have it, I *do* have some disfunctional solar lights (don't we all?).
> I'll rip into one.
> Regarding that 220uF cap, if you can 'borrow' some *tantalum* caps, they're usually smaller, and probably 10V is enough of a rating. But then, you're the EE, so you know all this.



Yeah I have a yard full of dysfunctional solar lights that either dont work at all or light for 15 minutes and then go out, plus a box of no good ones downstairs.

I dont have any higher value tantalum caps available. I tried the circuit with a 22uf Tantalum and it did not seem to work very well at all. Could be the tantalum cap was really old or the fact that tantalum caps are notoriously flaky devices. Any way I have 22uf, 47uf and 100uf electrolytics in my pocket to try later.

6.3 volts would probably be high enough voltage rating for the cap

Edit. Forgot to mention. Later, if I have time I may take some beamshots comparing the stock light to the led on the breadboard being driven at 80 to 100ma. You will have to post them for me. I know, I'm a pain. I should find some FTP software so I can do it myself but as you know I have been busy with this light and pretending I'm raking leaves as well.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

You know, I am risking my life for you guys and I hope you appreciate it. I used to smoke 4 or 5 cigarettes a day. Since I started playing with this light, the ashtray on my workbench needs emptying every day. Sometimes I have to light one because my cat likes to help me whatever I do and he walks on everything on the bench, knocks things over, and rubs his face against mine and the only thing that will get rid of him is if I blow smoke in his face. By the way the cats name is Phoenix. Should I change the spelling?


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Yeah I have a yard full of dysfunctional solar lights that either dont work at all or light for 15 minutes and then go out, plus a box of no good ones downstairs.
> 
> I dont have any higher value tantalum caps available. I tried the circuit with a 22uf Tantalum and it did not seem to work very well at all. Could be the tantalum cap was really old or the fact that tantalum caps are notoriously flaky devices. Any way I have 22uf, 47uf and 100uf electrolytics in my pocket to try later.
> 
> ...



No sweat, I'll be glad to post the pics...no pain. You're the one doing all the hard work! 
Guess I'll have to go rummage around in my electronics parts boxes, sacks, drawers, etc to find some caps.

Oh, BTW, as I said earlier, Photobucket.com is a great place to store photos for these forums. Free sign-up, and no FTP software required. You just click "Choose Files", and it uploads them automatically. Then a simple click copies the photobucket URL so you can paste it between your




notations in your CPF post. My main problem, tho', is uploading the pic then noticing that I need to edit it again!...so, I have to upload, etc at least twice...but that's just me, being too quick with the click.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> You know, I am risking my life for you guys and I hope you appreciate it. I used to smoke 4 or 5 cigarettes a day. Since I started playing with this light, the ashtray on my workbench needs emptying every day. Sometimes I have to light one because my cat likes to help me whatever I do and he walks on everything on the bench, knocks things over, and rubs his face against mine and the only thing that will get rid of him is if I blow smoke in his face. By the way the cats name is Phoenix. Should I change the spelling?



Cats are like that, we have 4...3 outdoor and one indoor. You can't walk in the backyard without tripping over a cat.

Yes, you should change the spelling of Phoenix to...*Rodney*.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Yes, you should change the spelling of Phoenix to...*Rodney*.


 
Rodney? OK I'l Bite. Who's Rodney?


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 3, 2008)

Well I managed to disassemble a head and get the circuit out without too much damage, but not as neatly as you (Holepuncher) did. How did you do it, with circlip pliers maybe? I couldn't find any way to grab the plastic spacer from the inside and pull it.

Once I got the thing apart it was too late to do any more. I'll have to see about unsoldering it tonight.

I look at these things and wonder how they managed to solder them in the first place. They have to be mass produced, and yet I can't guess what machine could make such fiddly connections with component leads and hookup wire all joined to the same pad. Theres no obvious mechanical means to hold all the parts in place while the solder solidifies.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Well I managed to disassemble a head and get the circuit out without too much damage, but not as neatly as you (Holepuncher) did. How did you do it, with circlip pliers maybe? I couldn't find any way to grab the plastic spacer from the inside and pull it.


 
I think you missed an earlier post. Take a wooden or plasic dowel. Set the head on a hard surface with the lens facing up. Put the dowel against the lens and keep tapping the dowel to drive the lens, reflector, spacer and circuit board straight down. I have done 3 of them this way. Yeah its crazy the way they soldered these together. Surprising that the chip is surface mount but the all the rest of the stuff is not. I can just picture someone pulling their hair out after 8 hours of soldering these things all day.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *flashlife*
> _Yes, you should change the spelling of Phoenix to...*Rodney*. _
> 
> Rodney? OK I'l Bite. Who's Rodney?


First name that came to mind...I was just being a smart*ss.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

FlashLife: I emailed some beamshots for you to post. I got a lot to learn about taking beamshots. All shots were taken at F4.5, 1/8S, ISO800


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

I'll give some info on the beamshots here.

I modded one of the lights and put it back together. I took separate beam shots of the stock light, the modded light plus one of a fenix L1T V2 which this husky looks so much like. The Fenix is set on its low mode which is rated at 16 lumens! That tells a lot about the light output of the stock light. I also took a shot of both the stock light and the modded light together.

Flashlife: If you can do it we need to update the schematic. In the light I modded I put in a 22uf tantalum cap that I removed from a scrapped radio. A 47uF would be better but I could not find one. Show the diode as a schottky. Then remove the connection between the Led/capacitor and replace it with a resistor called R. Then add a resistor between the resistor/chip connection and ground an call it 1000 ohms. Then we'll go from there


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> In the light I modded I put in a 22uf tantalum cap that I removed from a scrapped radio. A 47uF would be better but I could not find one. Show the diode as a schottky. Then remove the connection between the Led/capacitor and replace it with a resistor called R. Then add a resistor between the resistor/chip connection and ground an call it 1000 ohms. Then we'll go from there


I didn't manage to get a voltmeter on the output yet. What voltage does it seem the chip is trying to regulate to? I'm guessing perhaps 3.7 V, or is it lower? I thought of temporarily replacing the LED with a lowish value resistor to get a better voltage reading without loading the output down so much.

Another Q: the coil in mine doesn't seem to have any markings on it. How does one estimate its value?


----------



## danielo_d (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> ... Any way I have 22uf, 47uf and 100uf electrolytics in my pocket to try later.
> ....



Holepuncher, just make sure they're Hi Power Caps that are charged prior to putting them in your pocket... :nana:

I'm just enjoying all the info being shared in this thread! 

Keep up all the good work everyone.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I didn't manage to get a voltmeter on the output yet. What voltage does it seem the chip is trying to regulate to? I'm guessing perhaps 3.7 V, or is it lower? I thought of temporarily replacing the LED with a lowish value resistor to get a better voltage reading without loading the output down so much.
> 
> Another Q: the coil in mine doesn't seem to have any markings on it. How does one estimate its value?


 
You ask two difficult questions. Keeping in mind that the led is a current driven device, you are on the right track. You will find the answer to the first question by, as you said by disconnecting one leg of the led and putting a resistor in its place. I dont remember what it put out in that fashion. Like any regulator though I found that putting a divider from the output to the feedback I could raise the output and in this case up to about 6 volts.

As far as the inductor I have no clue either. Guessing by its size and using simple logic I would guess somwhere in the range of 10 to 50uH. Hows that for an answer. I did substitute 100uH and 1000uh. Both gave less output to the Led.

Wheres Flashlife. I'm waiting for him to post the beamshots. Sleeping on the jod I guess.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

danielo_d said:


> Holepuncher, just make sure they're Hi Power Caps that are charged prior to putting them in your pocket... :nana:
> 
> quote]
> 
> I have gotten so many shocks in my life it would not even faze me. How do you think I got the way I am now.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> ...
> Flashlife: If you can do it we need to *update the schematic*. In the light I modded I put in a 22uf tantalum cap that I removed from a scrapped radio. A 47uF would be better but I could not find one. Show the diode as a schottky. Then remove the connection between the Led/capacitor and replace it with a resistor called R. Then add a resistor between the resistor/chip connection and ground an call it 1000 ohms. Then we'll go from there



*Holepuncher:*
Trying not to be anal, but... 
Rather than get it _wrong_ *several* times, I've posted a pic of the original schematic, with connection nodes numbered in *blue*.

*Please reply with where the changes are to be made:*
*1.*"Then remove the connection between the _*Led/capacitor*_ and replace it with a resistor called R." 
*Which Led/capacitor nodes are to be replaced with R?* *Does R go between 4 & 5?*

2. "Then add a resistor between the *resistor/chip connection* and ground an call it 1000 ohms" 
*Which node(s) is/are the resistor/chip connection?*..*.4&5?, 6&7?*

{Schematic deleted...see post #159 for the mod. schematic}

I'l update the schem. (Schottky, 22uF, add 'R', 1k, etc) and edit or delete this one, and post the 'modded schematic' once I've got it right.

I s'pose I could have asked all these questions in a PM, but...what the hey! everyone's watching, and hopefully having as much fun as I am. :twothumbs


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair) - (BeamShots)*



Holepuncher said:


> I'll give some info on the beamshots here.
> I modded one of the lights and put it back together. I took separate beam shots of the stock light, the modded light plus one of a fenix L1T V2 which this husky looks so much like. The Fenix is set on its low mode which is rated at 16 lumens! That tells a lot about the light output of the stock light. I also took a shot of both the stock light and the modded light together.
> ...



*Holepuncher's beamshots of the Home Depot 1AA (HD1AA):*
(Camera settings: F4.5, 1/8S, ISO800)

*1. Contenders*






*2.Stock HD1AA*





*3.Modded HD1AA*






*4. Both (Stock & Modded) HD1AA*





*5. Fenix L1T (low mode = 16 lumens) for comparison*


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> ...
> Wheres *Flashlife*. I'm waiting for him to post the beamshots. Sleeping on the jod I guess.



Hey, I'm here ! Crunching photos, decoding schematics, consulting with the King of Sweden, etc...wait a second, Jennifer Lopez is calling!...later...


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Please reply with where the changes are to be made:*
> *1.*"Then remove the connection between the _*Led/capacitor*_ and replace it with a resistor called R."
> *Which Led/capacitor nodes are to be replaced with R?* *Does R go between 4 & 5?*
> 
> ...


I can help:

Place resistor R between points 3 and 4. Connect 1k (1000 ohm) resistor between 3 and ground.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 3, 2008)

Beamshots: 

Wow, that's a big improvement over the stock light. Not bad for a tiny emitter costing a few cents.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I can help:
> 
> Place resistor R between points 3 and 4. Connect 1k (1000 ohm) resistor between 3 and ground.


 
Mr Happy got it. See you guys dont need me:mecry:


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Beamshots:
> 
> Wow, that's a big improvement over the stock light. Not bad for a tiny emitter costing a few cents.


 
Yeah. But do you see the Fenix L1T rated at only 16 lumens on low. We got some work to do here guys. Long way to go.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)-Mod. Schematic*

Holepuncher's schematic of the modded HD1AA:
("R" and "1k" are new, diode is now a Schottky, Cap changed to 47uF)


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

I've got to watch out here. A few more posts and I will become a full fledged flashaholic :twothumbs:drunk:

Anyone following this thread know the tricks to taking beamshots. Those came out awful. Of course flashlife edited them and probably ruined them on me

I have a Pentax SLR. I put it in manual mode took a few shots and adjusted the exposure time to get something reasonable but left it in auto focus. Maybe I should have used manual focus:thinking:


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)-Mod. Schematic*



Cap changed to 22uF)
[/quote said:


> Great except cap should be 47uF tantalum. I used 22 because thats all I had. It works better with 47 uF aluminum electrolytic than the 22uF tantalum so I assume 47uF tantalum will be even better.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

For added weirdness in the HD1AA saga, I just dissassembled one of mine and "*WTF ?*"... it had *NO 10uF cap* !!. 
On the backside of the _LED board_, there was a tiny SMD component, I think a cap, but no way big enough to be 10uF!
The driver board only had the coil, diode, and IC !! Hello?? 
I went back to check the driver photo (post #58), and yours shows an electrolytic cap on the frontside.

Anyway, I scrounged up a 22uF cap, a 1N5817 schottky diode from a dead solar light...wired it all up and it's _brighter_. But not as much improvement as the one you did, Holepuncher, shown by your beamshots.
Guess I'll go back and add that resistor-divider pair...*BTW what's the value of "R" ???*


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)-Mod. Schematic*



Holepuncher said:


> Great except cap should be *47uF tantalum*. I used 22 because thats all I had. It works better with 47 uF aluminum electrolytic than the 22uF tantalum so I assume 47uF tantalum will be even better.



Schematic corrected... 



Holepuncher said:


> ...Anyone following this thread know the tricks to taking beamshots. Those came out awful. Of course *flashlife* edited them and probably ruined them on me...


Yeah, always blame it on the Texan !!


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> For added weirdness in the HD1AA saga, I just dissassembled one of mine and "*WTF ?*"... it had *NO 10uF cap* !!.
> On the backside of the _LED board_, there was a tiny SMD component, I think a cap, but no way big enough to be 10uF!
> The driver board only had the coil, diode, and IC !! Hello??
> I went back to check the driver photo (post #58), and yours shows an electrolytic cap on the frontside.
> ...


 
Wow that interesting. Can you take a pic of that board. There are no surface mount parts other than the chip on the three that I have taken apart. Dont underestimate SMD caps.

Heres what I found on the "R". Values in the range of 150 to 220 give the highest led current but with poor regulation. Values say around 100 to 150 give less led current but with some regulation. Values of 0 to 100 give good regulation but even less current. 

I'm exhausted from this. I'm not playing with it at all tomorrow. You guys take over for one day and come up with something. I have to straighten out my workbench. It hasn't been this messy since I invented the light bulb

By the way. Great job as usual on the pics


----------



## Illum (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> For added weirdness in the HD1AA saga, I just dissassembled one of mine and "*WTF ?*"... it had *NO 10uF cap* !!.
> On the backside of the _LED board_, there was a tiny SMD component, I think a cap, but no way big enough to be 10uF!



look anything like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/KEMET-TANTALUM-CAPACITORS-10uF-25V-SMD--(100-PCS)_W0QQitemZ360108448081QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081118?IMSfp=TL081118119001r8078

http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Uf--25V--10%...temQQimsxZ20081121?IMSfp=TL081121104001r28952

turns out theres alot of 10uF Tantalum SMTs out there...hmmm, wonder why they would convert the driver over...I thought electrolytic caps are cheaper


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Wow that interesting. *Can you take a pic of that board*. There are no surface mount parts other than the chip on the three that I have taken apart. Dont underestimate SMD caps.
> 
> Heres what I found on the "R". Values in the range of 150 to 220 give the highest led current but with poor regulation. Values say around 100 to 150 give less led current but with some regulation. Values of 0 to 100 give good regulation but even less current.
> 
> ...



Thanks, for the "R" range.
I'll see if I can get a pic of the back of the LED board, showing the SMD cap.

BTW, after my "add 22uF + schottky" mod, the *light drew* *140ma vs 120ma* before the mod. What does yours draw now with the mod?

Also, with your mod, what's the *LED current* now?


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Thanks, for the "R" range.
> I'll see if I can get a pic of the back of the LED board, showing the SMD cap.
> 
> BTW, after my "add 22uF + schottky" mod, the *light drew* *140ma vs 120ma* before the mod. What does yours draw now with the mod?
> ...


 
I just checked it now. Its drawing 340 ma which is about what I was seeing on the breadboard (actually I remember seeing 380 on the breadboard) I cant easily measure the led current in the modded light but on the breadboard it was in the range of 80 to 95ma dpending on its mood. It was a little flakey. Put the resisors in there and if you can get one use a 47uF

Edit: Not to insult anyones intelligience but before you put the resistors in there you have to first cut the trace going from the led back to the chip


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> look anything like this? http://cgi.ebay.com/KEMET-TANTALUM-CAPACITORS-10uF-25V-SMD--(100-PCS)_W0QQitemZ360108448081QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081118?IMSfp=TL081118119001r8078
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/10-Uf--25V--10%...temQQimsxZ20081121?IMSfp=TL081121104001r28952
> 
> turns out theres alot of 10uF Tantalum SMTs out there...hmmm, wonder why they would convert the driver over...I thought electrolytic caps are cheaper



That's _somewhat_ like the one on the back of my LED board, but mine is smaller, I think. Mine had solder pads that cover the ends and top also, so the solder fillets cover the whole ends of the cap and overflow onto the top of the ends. I'll have to take a pic.:thinking:


----------



## Illum (Dec 3, 2008)

flashlife said:


> That's _somewhat_ like the one on the back of my LED board, but mine is smaller, I think. Mine had solder pads that cover the ends and top also, so the solder fillets cover the whole ends of the cap and overflow onto the top of the ends. I'll have to take a pic.:thinking:



in fact, it might be better that you do...theres more than one size of SMTs


----------



## JWP_EE (Dec 3, 2008)

I use 10uf 10V ceramic capacitors on my board designs at work. They are a Z5U capacitor in an 0805 package. Thats 0.08" by 0.05".


----------



## flashlife (Dec 3, 2008)

JWP_EE said:


> I use 10uf 10V ceramic capacitors on my board designs at work. They are a Z5U capacitor in an 0805 package. Thats 0.08" by 0.05".



I looked up the 0805 package and it looks like the one on my board.
I'll take a pic tomorrow and see if I can decipher any symbolization on it.
It might make sense that they'd go to SMD caps, since they're easier to machine solder ( reflow, wave solder, etc), and that could be done before the LED is mounted to the other side of the board. ...cheaper in the long run, maybe, than a radial lead electrolytic.
Tho' I've never known asian factories to worry about labor costs...labor's cheap there. Maybe it's as Mr Happy said earlier, you'll go nuts trying to hand solder these things.


----------



## JWP_EE (Dec 3, 2008)

If the capacitor is a ceramic it won't have any marking on it. The only way to find the value would be to remove it and measure it with a capacitance meter. Even SMT resistors don't have value marking when they get down to the 0402 size.


----------



## Sir Lightalot (Dec 3, 2008)

So does anyone know what emitter is used in this? is it a nichia or just a generic half-watt? 
IIRC Fenix's low is about 25ma (LxT is a bit higher) so a more efficient emitter should make this thing really shine along with the circuit changes.


----------



## Illum (Dec 3, 2008)

I don't recall if nichia had made half-watts, if they did a slight purplish tint would have certainly confirmed it


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Sir Lightalot said:


> So does anyone know what emitter is used in this? is it a nichia or just a generic half-watt?
> IIRC Fenix's low is about 25ma (LxT is a bit higher) so a more efficient emitter should make this thing really shine along with the circuit changes.



This is no 1/2 Watt emitter. Above 100ma it turns bluish and light output starts to level off. Most 5mm leds have a narrow viewing angle. This one is somwhere in the range of 90 to 120 deg. I agree with a better emitter with a little more drive current but a better emitter will cost at least as much as the light.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Ok Guys the verdict is in. When I went to bed last night I took the modded light and a stock light with me . I turned off the light and handed both to the wife and asked which ones better. She instantly picked the modded light. It definetly has a hotter spot and the bounce lights up the room much more. I got up in the middle of the night and turned the modded light on in the hallway and for a split second it seemed blinding. On the down side, before I went to bed I took them both outside and aiming at things 75 to 100 Ft away the difference was less obvious.

Maybe in a few days I'll see if theres a way to put a better driver chip in there. This one is probably at its limit.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

JWP_EE said:


> If the capacitor is a ceramic *it won't have any marking on it*. The only way to find the value would be to remove it and measure it with a capacitance meter. Even SMT resistors don't have value marking when they get down to the 0402 size.



*JWP_EE*,
Right....since I don't have access to a cap-meter, we'll never know. 
But, I'll just _assume_ it's a 10uF, and with my new 22uF added in parallel, it all comes to 32 uF total...close enough. 
Now I just have to round up some resistors for the bias network.

*Holepuncher*,
You mentioned the "R value vs regulation quality". 
With R in the range of 150 to 220 ohms, does the voltage, current, and/or output droop badly as the battery depletes?


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Holepuncher*,
> You mentioned the "R value vs regulation quality".
> With R in the range of 150 to 220 ohms, does the voltage, current, and/or output droop badly as the battery depletes?



Well I simply cant do extensive testing on these matters. Making it more difficult is even though my variable power supply has fine and coarse voltage adjustments its difficult to set precisely under 1.5V. Once the large cap is added to the stock light it becomes well regulated. Adding the resistors cuts the feedback voltage making the chip try to output a higher voltage and hence we get higher current into the led. Now we are pushing things to the limit of the chip/inductor combination. As battery droops the chip simply cannot drive the inductor any harder so we lose regulation. My best guess is down to about 1.2 volts you wont see much change in output but there will be some loss. I used 180 ohm. Thats what I had in a 1/10 watter. I'm wondering if the 2 resistor values should be multiplied by 10. The 180 + 1000 is actually wasting 3 or 4 ma of led current.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> ...My best guess is down to about 1.2 volts you wont see much change in output but there will be some loss. I used 180 ohm. Thats what I had in a 1/10 watter. I'm wondering if the 2 resistor values should be multiplied by 10. The 180 + 1000 is actually wasting 3 or 4 ma of led current.



Thanks, for all your hard work. :twothumbs

It makes sense that if the chip voltage sensitive (rather than current), then multiplying by 5 or 10 would be OK.

Assuming an LED Vf of 3.5V (more or less), then I=V/R = 3.5/1180 = 3mA for the 1000 and 180 combo.

If we multiply by say 5, then 3.5 / (5000 + 900) = 0.6mA...which may drive the LED a little harder, and/or add to the runtime. (?)

I'll try to tweak the resistor network to see what I get.


----------



## JWP_EE (Dec 4, 2008)

As long as the input impedance of pin 3 of the chip is at least 10X the resistors then you should fine. If it is just a sense input then it should be many many K ohms. Like maybe 100K and it won't load the resistor divider.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> It makes sense that if the chip voltage sensitive (rather than current), then multiplying by 5 or 10 would be OK.
> 
> Assuming an LED Vf of 3.5V (more or less), then I=V/R = 3.5/1180 = 3mA for the 1000 and 180 combo.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah I would try it at 5X. What JWP_EE said is correct but its probably better not to go too high. These types of circuits can be noisy unless properly laid out and if the impedance at the sense point is too high noise pickup is more likely. Getting an extra 3ma into the led is not going to make much difference but every little bit helps.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Ok Now for my next trick. Against my better judgement I ordered an LTC3400 (google it) boost converter just for fun. Whats it going to do for us? Just about nothing other than I think a few of us have learned some things here and now we can learn some more. 

I dont think we will get any more brightness as we are at the limit of what a 5mm led can do. Unless I'm wrong I dont think there is a 5mm led on the planet that can put out much more than 15 lumens or so even when overdriven. If there is one let me know.

The LTC3400 is probably a much better designed device and the performance should be more predictable and efficient. Won't have to guess at resistor values. Plus it only needs a 3uf cap and the diode is not necessary but optional. They say it can output 600ma but I think thats with higher input voltage than 1.5V. I have not totally studied all the details yet. Handling and soldering the part should be lots of fun. Its only 0.1 in long with lead spacings of 0.035"


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Ok Now for my next trick. Against my better judgement I ordered an LTC3400 (google it) boost converter just for fun. Whats it going to do for us? Just about nothing other than I think a few of us have learned some things here and now we can learn some more.
> ...



Good trick ! But at 1.2 MHz switching freq, it'll interfere with your AM radio, set to those oldies Rock 'N Roll stations.  OK, just don't house it in a plastic pill box, and it should be shielded enough. :twothumbs


----------



## JWP_EE (Dec 4, 2008)

Just a thought.

Have you tried a lower value inductor?

If I look at the spec for the ZXLD381 a lower inductance value gives a higher output current. I can't say that I understand why and this chip may not work the same as the ZXLD381, but you did state that a larger inductor value made the output go down.

It might be worth a try.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

JWP_EE: I have boatloads of everything else but I dont have an abundance of inductors to try or else I would have tried others.

Flashlife: Well it will be shielded by the flashlight tube. I dont think I have an AM radio in the house that works anyway. Did you do the resistor mod yet?

For laughs I hooked up a cree XRE to the breadboarded light. I was getting 135 ma into the XRE. Because its a power led the forward voltage of the cree remains lower than these 5mm's at low currents hence the higher current. The thing was lighting up the room. Those XRE's are amazing. Quite bright at even 30ma and blinding at 700ma. Now dont go getting any ideas about putting one of them in your $2 flashlight. They cost about $7.50 each. Dont tell anyone though. I put one in a $12 Dorcy.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 4, 2008)

JWP_EE said:


> As long as the input impedance of pin 3 of the chip is at least 10X the resistors then you should fine. If it is just a sense input then it should be many many K ohms. Like maybe 100K and it won't load the resistor divider.


According to the data sheet Holepuncher found the input current on the sense pin is in the 50-100 uA range. It doubles as voltage sense and also power supply for the chip. Based on the 10x ratio, it seems that at least 1 mA should be flowing through the voltage divider.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 4, 2008)

JWP_EE said:


> Just a thought.
> 
> Have you tried a lower value inductor?
> 
> ...


I was thinking about this last night. From the data sheet the inductor switch has a constant 7.5 us on time.

To get the most output we need the maximum current through the inductor before it turns off, since stored energy is proportional to current squared.

With a 100 uH inductor and using dI/dt = V/L with a 1.5 V supply, it gives

dI/dt = 1.5 / 100e-6 = 15,000 A/s at turn on.

In 7.5 us, the current would reach approximately 7.5e-6 x 15,000 = 0.11 A (making a gross assumption of linearity over that time period). Since we know we can get more than 0.11 A from our 1.5 V cell, it seems to make sense that a smaller inductor switched more frequently would deliver more power per pulse, because the current would reach higher values. Assuming the inductor doesn't saturate and is able to store all that energy that would be a good thing I believe. (And assuming it doesn't destroy the FET switch inside the chip.)

The data sheet says the oscillator has a fixed frequency of 100 kHz, so it it was running all the time with 7.5 us on and 2.5 us off that would define the upper limit on output power and current.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> JWP_EE: I have boatloads of everything else but I dont have an abundance of inductors to try or else I would have tried others.


I have an idea to try winding some using ferrite beads or toroids. I tried to buy some recently for another project, but Radio Shack have none, and Fry's don't have a big selection. I manage to buy one FT-50-43 toroid (it cost as much as this whole flashlight!) and I think I can at least wind something useful on that. (But based on my post above the inductance is likely to be too high. I'm going to get mH rather than uH based on a few calculations.)

It looks like I'll have to order on line to get a good choice of ferrite cores and beads of different materials.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> It looks like I'll have to order on line to get a good choice of ferrite cores and beads of different materials.


 
A little confused on that. Why buy cores and beads and wind them when you can just buy ready made inductors that are probably far superior quality than the ones in the stock husky for less than $1. Or is just for the challenge of it?


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Slightlty OT here because it involves another flashlight.

I've have had several of these rayovac single AAA lights laying around in a drawer. They cost around 2.99 at walmart. Sharp little things come in anodized blue, green, red and others. They look sort of like the AAA minimags but shorter. Anyway they have no reflector but instead a lens. Light output is feeble. You would have trouble finding a keyhole with it.

Well I had to open one up today. It has the chip and a really cheap axial inductor and nothing else - no capacitor. So I added the diode and a 10uf capacitor. Its at least three times as bright now. Now I have to do all of them.

For 10 cents worth of parts why didnt they just include these and charge 20 cents more for the light. Makes no sense.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> In 7.5 us, the current would reach approximately 7.5e-6 x 15,000 = 0.11 A (making a gross assumption of linearity over that time period). Since we know we can get more than 0.11 A from our 1.5 V cell, it seems to make sense that a smaller inductor switched more frequently would deliver more power per pulse, because the current would reach higher values. Assuming the inductor doesn't saturate and is able to store all that energy that would be a good thing I believe. (And assuming it doesn't destroy the FET switch inside the chip.)


 
Dont forget to take into account that the crappy FET in that chip has an on resistance of 2 ohms which is very significant with a 1.5v power source


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> A little confused on that. Why buy cores and beads and wind them when you can just buy ready made inductors that are probably far superior quality than the ones in the stock husky for less than $1. Or is just for the challenge of it?


It's just for fun and education. I've always had a hankering to do more experimenting with electronics. Plus some of the circuits I've been looking at require ferrite core transformers with different windings and turns ratios. 

My reading on the subject suggests there is more to selecting the right inductor than just the inductance value, and I wonder if it is really always possible to buy just the coil or transformer you need as a mass produced part for every application? (With the right core material, frequency range, Q value, power handling, and other parameters...?)

If you buy things ready made, you have to know in advance exactly which part you need, or if you don't know, you have to order a selection of parts to switch in and out to find which works best. If you didn't get the right parts first time you have to order again and have another mailing delay. At least if you wind your own test coils you can unwind and rewind as many times as you like giving you more scope to tune things.

I guess it would be great to have a nice big parts bin to hand. Unwisely I threw a lot of stuff out last time I moved and now my parts bin is bare. :mecry:


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Dont forget to take into account that the crappy FET in that chip has an on resistance of 2 ohms which is very significant with a 1.5v power source


Thanks. I did forget about that.


----------



## Magnus1959 (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm enjoying reading this thread. Very entertaining guys!


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Inductors:
If we're talking low uH's here then a toroid may be overkill...just wind a freestanding coil like for an FM tramsmitter...only bigger.
A .5" long X .5" dia, 20 turn aircore coil is 3.4uH. 

Coil Calculator here:
http://www.crystalradio.net/professorcoyle/professorcoylecyl.shtml

That .5X.5 may be a little cramped but one could wind it around the whole board so it just fits inside the plastic spacer, etc. And, of course, since this isn't rocket science, one could just scramble 20-40 turns around your thumb, hot melt glue it in a few places to keep it together and jam it in there. 

Where's my duct-tape??!!

Anyway, winding toroids is a pain in the...you know !


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Slightlty OT here because it involves another flashlight.
> 
> I've have had several of these rayovac single AAA lights laying around in a drawer. They cost around 2.99 at walmart. Sharp little things come in anodized blue, green, red and others. They look sort of like the AAA minimags but shorter. Anyway they have no reflector but instead a lens. Light output is feeble. You would have trouble finding a keyhole with it.
> 
> ...



*Holepuncher,*
Without your mod, how does the walmart 1AAA compare to a Dorcy 1AAA, gen 1 (no lens)? And then how 'bout after your mod vs Dorcy1AAA?

*Another* $2-$3 flashlight mod...Oh NO !! :naughty:
*
Also*, no, I haven't added the resistors to the HD1AA yet...a bad head-cold and soldering irons don't mix well for me.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> ...
> If you buy things ready made, you have to know in advance exactly which part you need, or if you don't know, you have to order a selection of parts to switch in and out to find which works best. *If you didn't get the right parts first time* you have to order again and have another mailing delay. At least if you wind your own test coils you can unwind and rewind as many times as you like giving you more scope to tune things.
> ...



It's like buying plumbing parts at Home Depot...always plan of going back a 2nd time to exchange that part you *thought* would fit for one that actually does...Uhhhh, make that "a 3rd time".


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Help Can someone tell me how multi-quote works


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Holepuncher,*
> Without your mod, how does the walmart 1AAA compare to a Dorcy 1AAA, gen 1 (no lens)? And then how 'bout after your mod vs Dorcy1AAA?
> 
> *Another* $2-$3 flashlight mod...Oh NO !! :naughty:
> ...


 
I have never seen a dorcy 1AAA. If I can find one I'll go buy one tomorrow just for you and let you know. The sacrifices I make for you guys. The only dorcy's I have are the 3XAA's with direct drive with the K2 Led's


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Magnus1959 said:


> I'm enjoying reading this thread. Very entertaining guys!


 
Yeah Right. And your probably telling everyone you know there is this handfull of idiots on CPF that got their hand on a $2 flashlight and think its the best thing since sliced bread. 

Glad your enjoying it. Stick your 2 cents in now and then. There's no end in sight on this one


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I have never seen a dorcy 1AAA. If I can find one I'll go buy one tomorrow just for you and let you know. The sacrifices I make for you guys. The only dorcy's I have are the 3XAA's with direct drive with the K2 Led's



*Don't bother*...they're sometimes (usually) at walmart ( ~$7), but the ones there now are gen 3-4 with a hideous lens (spot shooter) and about half the power of the reflectored gen 1. Forget that one, seriously. 

Quickbeam's review of both old and new versions, here:
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/dorcy_aaa.htm


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> It's just for fun and education. I've always had a hankering to do more experimenting with electronics. Plus some of the circuits I've been looking at require ferrite core transformers with different windings and turns ratios.
> 
> My reading on the subject suggests there is more to selecting the right inductor than just the inductance value, and I wonder if it is really always possible to buy just the coil or transformer you need as a mass produced part for every application? (With the right core material, frequency range, Q value, power handling, and other parameters...?)
> 
> ...


 
Fun and education. Thats a good enough answer for me. Look at the crazy crap I've done with this light so far. And I'm not done yet. I hear you the throwing out stuff. Man, the stuff I've thrown out over the years only to wish 6 months later that I kept it.

I think though that no matter what we do with this light, using the same driver chip, we are not going to get too much more light output than what I have already done. I'm sure though that efficiency and runtime can be further improved.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Fun and education. ...
> I think though that no matter what we do with this light, using the same driver chip, we are not going to get too much more light output than what I have already done. I'm sure though that efficiency and runtime can be further improved.



OK, *serious*-mod-time now...
What if...somebody added an *external drive transistor* (2N2222 ?), using the chip output as the base drive for the 2222? Could you get upwards of 1A?
'Course, you'd need other minor circuitry (base current limiting, etc), but ... ??
Like this...sorta...maybe...you EE's correct this at will.


----------



## Illum (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> OK, *serious*-mod-time now...
> What if...somebody added an *external drive transistor* (2N2222 ?), using the chip output as the base drive for the 2222? Could you get upwards of 1A?
> 'Course, you'd need other minor circuitry (base current limiting, etc), but ... ??
> Like this...sorta...maybe...you EE's correct this at will.



hmmm...can a 2n2222 fit on the board? 
it seems the SMT solderpads could be put to use...heck, if your really serious about this just migrate the 2N2222 and the tantalum to the LED's PCB, it seems like it has plenty of room 


flashlife said:


> *2. Driver & LED Boards:*


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Don't bother*...they're sometimes (usually) at walmart ( ~$7), but the ones there now are gen 3-4 with a hideous lens (spot shooter) and about half the power of the reflectored gen 1. Forget that one, seriously.
> 
> Quickbeam's review of both old and new versions, here:
> http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/dorcy_aaa.htm


 
You know something Flashlife. I hate you:laughing:. I was all set to go out and buy a cheap flashlight. You wetted my appetite. Then you tell me dont bother. Well you know what! Now Because of you Im going tomorrow and buy something anyway. AND it will probably cost me more than $7.99. I have had my eye on the River Rock 2C. I have 5 or 6 river rocks and they are impressive for the money. If they dont have that then I'll have to get the Inova Bolt 2AA. Waste of money but I have both of the other Inova Bolts and well what can I say. Part of the collection. Actually the Inova Bolt 2XCR123 is pretty impressive. The Inova 2XAAA is, well lets just say it leaves a lot to be desired. Im sending you the bill for whatever I buy.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> OK, *serious*-mod-time now...
> What if...somebody added an *external drive transistor* (2N2222 ?), using the chip output as the base drive for the 2222? Could you get upwards of 1A?


Good thought, but you seem to have put the transistor in the wrong place. The current being switched goes through the coil and the chip, following path 9-1-2. So you'd want to put the switching transistor between points 1 and 2 where the chip's internal FET is now, and switch the transistor using pin 1 of the chip.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> OK, *serious*-mod-time now...
> What if...somebody added an *external drive transistor* (2N2222 ?), using the chip output as the base drive for the 2222? Could you get upwards of 1A?
> 'Course, you'd need other minor circuitry (base current limiting, etc), but ... ??
> Like this...sorta...maybe...you EE's correct this at will.


 
Flashlife. What would happen if I mix together Ammonia, Bleach, Drano, super glue, paint thinner, acetone and garlic powder.

Your idea about adding the 2n2222 has merit. BUT IT WONT WORK. First of all the base drive would be backwards. The inductor would be pulled low when it should go high. So you would need an inverter on the base drive. Second - the VCE Sat of the transistor needs to be taken into consideration. There are some low VCE transistors that might work but a high performance mosfet would be a better choice. Getting a mosfet to turn on at 1.5V gate voltage is another story though

All I know about you is that you are a chemist with a budding interest in electronics. Your way of thinking about electronics is impressive. Keep at it. You have potential.

Edit: I glanced at your schematic before my post and immediately envisioned it as Mr Happy described. I think flashlife meant to draw it the correct way but he had NaChGpWxH2O on his mind


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Good thought, but you seem to have put the *transistor in the wrong place*. The current being switched goes through the coil and the chip, following path 9-1-2. So you'd want to put the switching transistor between points 1 and 2 where the chip's internal FET is now, and switch the transistor using pin 1 of the chip.





Holepuncher said:


> Flashlife. What would happen if I mix together Ammonia, Bleach, Drano, super glue, paint thinner, acetone and garlic powder.
> 
> Your idea about adding the 2n2222 has merit. BUT *IT WONT WORK*. First of all the base drive would be *backwards*. The inductor would be pulled low when it should go high. So you would need an inverter on the base drive. Second - the VCE Sat of the transistor needs to be taken into consideration. There are some low VCE transistors that might work but a high performance mosfet would be a better choice. Getting a mosfet to turn on at 1.5V gate voltage is another story though.



*"Wrong place !"..."it wont work!"..."backwards"! ???
*Boy ! are you guys picky and hard to please...OK...other than those little quibbles, what's wrong with it?:thinking:

Actually, after I posted the so-called schematics, I realized that there might be a _*tiny issue*_ with the 2222 hook-up.oo:

And, come to think of it, we're (I'm) probably trying to gold plate a pig here. I think you're right, Holepuncher, that we've wrung all the juice that we're gonna get from this turnip....unless Mr Happy can wind some super toroids and get further improvement...

And also, *Holepuncher*, if you just gotta go buy a new cheap flashlight (on my nickel), you could do worse than the RR 2C. I have the 2AAA and the 1AA (both re-branded Nuwai's). I don't have an Inova Bolt, but I got my mom (age 88) a Radiant 2AA which she loves. If you're gonna put it on my bill, let my give you my card #...it's a simple anagram so that the letters may be easily converted into numbers:
_"there is no money in this account"_.
OK, go shopping... 

I don't know about garlic powder, but if you mix bleach and ammonia, prepare to abandon the house for a couple of hours...*do not linger* !
That combo makes *NO2 gas*...let me save you the Google:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_dioxide
*SERIOUSLY...NO2 is very toxic*, not a good mix to try.
And do not confuse it with N2O, which is laughing gas...not the same thing.
Also, adding acetone will liberate chlorine (Cl2) gas, which is a poison gas used in WW I. Both these, NO2 and Cl2, irritate the lungs to the point that they secrete a lot of fluid to try to cleanse themselves, which would be OK except for the fact that you drown in your own fluids.
_Don't try this at home, we're professionals!_

OK, I'll stick to the chemistry and let you lightning-rod types shuffle the electrons. 
 
Edit: As a general rule, *don't mix anything with bleach* ( or swimming pool chlorine), both are bad-actors and the results can kill you....painfully.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Flashlife. I could not even quote your last post. I couldn't. I fell on the floor laughing.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Flashlife. I could not even quote your last post. I couldn't. I fell on the floor laughing.



I take that as a compliment...Thanks.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

Hey. Nobody congragulated me on becoming a flashaholic. Whats up with that?


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Hey. Nobody congragulated me on becoming a flashaholic. Whats up with that?



We were busy...uhhhh..mixing stuff.

Congrats !! :twothumbs ...now, when can we expect your simple circuit mod which will allow our E01's to throw like a Jetbeam?


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> We were busy...uhhhh..mixing stuff.
> 
> Congrats !! :twothumbs ...now, when can we expect your simple circuit mod which will allow our E01's to throw like a Jetbeam?


 
Well I have not figured out how to get an E01 apart yet without ruining it. Take yours apart and tell me how and then I'll take it from there.

Oh And by the way! A head cold is no ecxuse. Happens to the best of us!!!!


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 4, 2008)

flashlife said:


> I don't know about garlic powder, but if you mix bleach and ammonia, prepare to abandon the house for a couple of hours...*do not linger* !
> That combo makes *NO2 gas*...


It does? Maybe your post was in jest, but ammonia and bleach are both basic, while NO2 is an acid gas. Mixing ammonia and bleach may produce many dangerous fumes, but I don't believe NO2 is one of them.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 4, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> It does? Maybe your post was in jest, but ammonia and bleach are both basic, while NO2 is an acid gas. Mixing ammonia and bleach may produce many dangerous fumes, but I don't believe NO2 is one of them.



I was NOT jesting.
It's not an acid base reaction, the bleach (sodium hypochlorite) oxidizes the ammonium hydroxide (NH4OH) into NO2, chloramine, hydrazine, chlorine, water, sodium salts, etc. The first 4 of those are toxic. And although NO2 is mildly acidic, it's not very water soluble, so it quickly saturates the solution (turning it red-orange) then bubbles out as a gas. The other products of the reaction are colorless.

You're right, though, that it creates many dangerous fumes, and all are nasty.


----------



## Illum (Dec 4, 2008)

I like how the topic veered off the electronic highway and into the chemist's pool, can we get the thread back on the fast lane with a little transition from kitchen chemistry to etching PC boards?


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 4, 2008)

now what you need is a group buy on drop in circuits and LEDs costing $7 so you can make this $2.50 light into a $10 light you can buy already made from the same place the other parts come from


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> so you can make this $2.50 light into a $10 light you can buy already made from the same place the other parts come from



That would be no fun. Plus if I bought the $10 light I'd be right back where I started from taking that one apart.:sick2:


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> That would be no fun. Plus if I bought the $10 light I'd be right back where I started from taking that one apart.:sick2:


but then you could spend another $7 in parts to make that equal a $20 prebuilt light.:thumbsup:


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I like how the topic veered off the electronic highway and into the chemist's pool, can we get the thread back on the fast lane with a little transition from *kitchen chemistry* to etching PC boards?


Hey, that's *bathroom chemistry*...since lots of housewives have thought,
" Hey, bleach cleans the toilet, and ammonia cleans the toilet!...what if I use them both at the same time? .... (cough!..cough!)...

But, you're right...back to lights and circuits....


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

Well the LTC3400 arrived at work this morning (on the house of course). Oh Boy! I really did it this time. Its slightly bigger than a pin head. I'll Take a pic of it when I get home. I'm going to need an electron microscope to solder it 
Flashlife: Is there any chemical I can soak this thing in to make it swell to say 3 times its current size?


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Well the LTC3400 arrived at work this morning (on the house of course). Oh Boy! I really did it this time. Its slightly bigger than a pin head. I'll Take a pic of it when I get home. I'm going to need an electron microscope to solder it
> Flashlife: Is there any chemical I can soak this thing in to make it swell to say 3 times its current size?



Seen the comercials for "*Enzite*" ? It's supposedly a "natural enhancer", that makes "things" bigger.
'Course, I'd use that gizmo from "*Honey I Shrunk the Kids*!"...just plug it in backwards. 

I think you said you're in your 40's, and used reading glasses. (?) Sooo, get yourself one of these, I use it for all my microscopic needs...like finding my "thing" if I forgot to take my Enzite.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37586


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Seen the comercials for "*Enzite*" ? It's supposedly a "natural enhancer", that makes "things" bigger.
> 
> I think you said you're in your 40's, and used reading glasses. (?) Sooo, get yourself one of these, I use it for all my microscopic needs...like finding my "thing" if I forgot to take my Enzite.



Your funny. Yep In my LATE 40's and need reading glasses. I dont own a pair. I refuse to admit I need them. I use my wifes' (early 50's).

I dont have that problem of finding my "thing". My wife came up with the name "holepuncher" many years ago. She thinks that I have a very big flashlight. Maybe she needs to have her eyes checked :devil:


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

Flashlife. I sent you an email


----------



## Illum (Dec 5, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Hey, that's *bathroom chemistry*...since lots of housewives have thought,
> " Hey, bleach cleans the toilet, and ammonia cleans the toilet!...what if I use them both at the same time? .... (cough!..cough!)...
> 
> But, you're right...back to lights and circuits....




can you tell I'm not a chemist?:nana:
I use scrubbing bubbles in the bathroom...for both porcelain and tile, bleach exists in the laundry room and ammonia haven't been used for years...that stuff lingers in the air too long


----------



## JohnR66 (Dec 5, 2008)

*What is the LED in this?*

I was going to get the $10 six pack, but they sold out. I ended up with these. They both work okay for me. Throw is better than the 5mm ones anyway and it has a good spill circle for close up work. The clicky is rather loud. With my DVM on 10 amp scale, I got 140ma from the heavy duty battery when it was new. Runtime is very good. No drop after an hour of use.

Sorry if covered earlier, but his is a long thread for this light  Someone thought it is a .5 watt LED. I see only the two bond wires, so it seems not to be a multi chip. Any ideas on the LED?


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Slightlty OT here because it involves another flashlight.
> 
> I've have had several of these *rayovac single AAA lights* laying around in a drawer. They cost around 2.99 at walmart. Sharp little things come in anodized blue, green, red and others. They look sort of like the AAA minimags but shorter. Anyway they have no reflector but instead a lens. Light output is feeble. You would have trouble finding a keyhole with it.
> 
> ...



Holepuncher's little Rayovacs, and LTC3400 (with friends) - 

*Rayovacs:*






*LTC3400:*


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

*Re: What is the LED in this?*



JohnR66 said:


> ...
> 
> Sorry if covered earlier, but his is a long thread for this light  Someone thought it is a .5 watt LED. I see only the two bond wires, so it seems not to be a multi chip. *Any ideas on the LED?*


Consensus seems to be that it's a .5W generic LED...like the RR 2AAA.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)-Little Rayo Mod?*

*Holepuncher*,
If you punch the lens out of those little Rayovacs, do they make an OK-output light...maybe like a E01, 
or Infinity Ultra?

I was thinking about getting one (or 2) and do your cap+diode mod, but without the lens (hate'em). Is it worth it?


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)-Little Rayo Mod?*



flashlife said:


> *Holepuncher*,
> If you punch the lens out of those little Rayovacs, do they make an OK-output light...maybe like a E01,
> or Infinity Ultra?
> 
> I was thinking about getting one (or 2) and do your cap+diode mod, but without the lens (hate'em). Is it worth it?


 
You cant take out the lens. The lens snaps in the front of the head and that is what holds the rest uf the stuff in the head. I suppose you could glue it. BUT - They do have a reflector in there but the led does not protrude to much into it. The end result is you get the bright well defined round spot but also a little bit of spill. I thing its not bad. After the mod this is just as bright as the E01 and I think the beam is better than the E01 with its oblong purple center spot. Go for it. What have you got to lose. Maybe i'll send you a beam shot later.

By the way. I just got back from target. You owe me $27 for the Nightfire 2C. Cash only please. I'll be checking my mailbox.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Holepuncher's little Rayovacs, and LTC3400 (with friends) -


 
Oh Man. Looking at that Pic of the LTC3400. What did I get myself into? I Can't solder that.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)-Little Rayo Mod?*



Holepuncher said:


> ....You owe me *$27 *for the Nightfire 2C. Cash only please. I'll be checking my mailbox.



*$27 !!?* * For a FLASHLIGHT !??*

You can get a perfectly good plastic one from Harbor Freight for *$1.99* !! 

Here you are with the new light which I *authorize* (cap and spicy shirt not included)::naughty:


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Oh Man. Looking at that Pic of the LTC3400. What did I get myself into? I Can't solder that.


Check out jkgamm041's videos on YouTube (e.g. this one). He's an *artist *when it comes to hand soldering of SMT parts. However, I notice he cheats by only soldering big parts. Maybe we should contact him and ask him to demonstrate a little part like that LTC3400 :devil:


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Oh Man. Looking at that Pic of the LTC3400. What did I get myself into? I Can't solder that.



*Tiny !? *You call that *Tiny !??*
Here's tiny...
I worked with these little guys for 12 years. 

an SEM photo of a VCSEL chip (Vertical Cavity Surface Emitting Laser), 
beside a common household *ant* : (Chip .010X.010X.006")





And chip arrays of VCSELs (bottom) and fiber-optic detectors (top), next to grains of common *table salt*:


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

*Re: Home Depot 1AA Lights (pair)-Little Rayo Mod?*



flashlife said:


> *$27 !!?* *For a FLASHLIGHT !??*
> 
> You can get a perfectly good plastic one from Harbor Freight for *$1.99* !!


 
Oh Wow. I'm going back to target and return it. What was I thinking.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

Ok Guys. Scratch the LTC3400 Idea. I lined the chip up on the round board in such a way that it aligned with two pads on the board and tacked it down with solder. Then for the other two connections needed I soldered two pieces of 30 ga wire to the leads on the chip. I was then going to bend those wires and attach them to some free pads on the board. Did the first one fine. When I did the second one the lead broke right off the chip:mecry:. THEY DONT MAKE EM LIKE THEY USED TO!!!

I have worked with surface mount chips before but not that small. Oh well anyone got a plan B.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> ... When I did the second one the lead broke right off the chip:mecry:. THEY DONT MAKE EM LIKE THEY USED TO!!!
> I have worked with surface mount chips before but not that small. Oh well anyone got a plan B.



Solder-blob to the 'stub' and hope for a good connection....


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Solder-blob to the 'stub' and hope for a good connection....


 
There is no !#&%^ stub. It pulled right out from inside the chip. I think it was defective from the start. See. It wasn't my fault. I'm sending it back to Linear Technology with a nasty letter.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> There is no !#&%^ stub. It pulled right out from inside the chip. I think it was defective from the start. See. *It wasn't my* *fault*. I'm sending it back to Linear Technology with a nasty letter.



*Yeah, Yeah, we've all heard that before:*

*"It's not my fault!...It's not my fault!"* 
(Han Solo, Star Wars, Episode IV)

"*It wasn't my fault*, sir, please don't deactivate me. I told him not to go, but he's faulty, malfunctioning. 
Kept babbling on about his mission. "
(C3PO, Star Wars, Episode IV)

"They told me they fixed it! I *trusted* them to *fix* it! *It's not my fault*!"
(Lando Calrissian, Star Wars Episode V)

"*It's all Obi-Wan's fault.* He's jealous. He's holding me back. "
(Anakin Skywalker, Star Wars, Episode II)

*Way to go, Han !*


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Yeah, Yeah, we've all heard that before:*
> 
> *Way to go, Han !*


 
I take it you like star wars. I always liked star trek better.

So whats your favorite cheap (< $15) little single cell light. Sounds like you like the E01. I'd have to say mine is the Coast - dont know the number but it uses 4 AG13 batterys. Blows away the E01 at $9.99


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I take it you like star wars. I always liked star trek better.
> 
> So whats your *favorite cheap (< $15) little single cell light*. Sounds like you like the E01. I'd have to say mine is the Coast - dont know the number but it uses 4 AG13 batterys. Blows away the E01 at $9.99



*Fav Cheap Little 1xxx <$15:*

Well, it was the *E01*, til a few days ago (Dec 1st) when I got a Streamlight *Microstream*...but that one may be a dollar or so more than your <$15.

The *HD1AA* you've been so diligently upgrading has to be a fav of sorts, cause it performs well for next-to-no bucks, couldn't pass up a $2.50 deal!

Way back (2006), it was the fabled *Dorcy 1AAA*, but techno-stuff advanced and I upgraded to a *RR 2AAA* (oops, 2 cells, not 1). 

Then I got a *Coast David 19*, 1W, 1AA, (oops, $29), and EDC'd it until I got the Microstream.
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/coast_round-up.htm#LL7847 (mine was black).

I got the E01 'cause it was cheap, well reviewed, and I had to get a Fenix _someday_. 
I got the Microstream also 'cause it was cheap, well reviewed, and I had to get a Streamlight _someday_.
I got the HD1AA 'cause I whined:"Honey! It's _TWO_ lights for _5 bucks_! What can it hurt?!" 

But right now...Microstream. 

I was a big Trekkie when the original 1st ran on TV. In grad school (1971), Star Trek re-runs showed on 2 cable channels: 11am to noon, and then noon-1PM...so I'd take a long lunch break from the lab everyday, go home and watch 2 hours of STrek !
I think that may have contributed to my subsequent divorce...:thinking:

One thing I liked about Kirk, his philosophy was "If it's a threat, blast it!"

None of the later Picard PC baloney "It has a right to live too! Just because it destroys whole planets, that's no reason to...Blah, Blah."

Go Kirk!!:twothumbs


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 5, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Fav Cheap Little 1xxx <$15:*
> 
> Well, it was the *E01*, til a few days ago (Dec 1st) when I got a Streamlight *Microstream*...but that one may be a dollar or so more than your <$15.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah Kirk was the best. The star trek movies were great too. Wrath of Kahn rules. Ricardo was awesome. 

Not familiar with the microstream but isn't that a 2 cell. 

The E01 is Cute but leaves a lot to be desired. Nicely made though. If your going to mention more expensive ones the LD01 blows them all away.

The HD1AA for $2.50. Absolutely amazing how some of the hardcore, nothing but the best will do, my flashlights better than yours, flashaholics put this thing down and found every little fault with it as though they were avoiding stepping in dog crap. For me as a mildly crazy flashaholic and the general public you cant go wrong with one of these. Lets face it. Years ago the most popular flashlight aimed at the general public were something like $1.99 evereadys that you when you turned them on and slapped them in your palm a few times you might get a little light out of them. I'll keep a few HD1AA's scattered around the house in drawers. They will be there when I need them. They put the 1.99 flashlights of yesteryear to shame especially in build quality that the junkies were so critical of on this one.

How bout the nanolight. Had my eye on that


----------



## Illum (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Oh Man. Looking at that Pic of the LTC3400. What did I get myself into? I Can't solder that.



do we really have to use the LTC3400 for the prototype? or are there any other options? [say this?]

I dont think micro SOT-223s can be soldered by hand, not by the off the shelf irons here, none of the tips are narrow enough. A bit of flux then heat maybe, but these chips disintegrate internally if you apply heat to the pins too hot or too long...I've destroyed alot this way....


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Yeah Kirk was the best. The star trek movies were great too. *Wrath of Kahn* rules. Ricardo was awesome.
> 
> Not familiar with the *microstream* but isn't that a 2 cell.
> 
> ...



*Khan:*
Wrath of Khan was the best ST movie of the bunch, and better than most, if not all, the TV episodes. Gotta whup together one of those Genesis machines!  Kirk showed real flashaholic spirit when he "modded" the Kobayashi Maru problem, "adjusting" the parameters so he could pass. 

Best speech, Khan quoting Melville, Moby ****: 
"_To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart, 
I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!_..." 
No better death-speech anywhere. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------
*Microstream:*
The Microstream is a hot number!
http://www.brightguy.com/products/Streamlight_MicroStream_LED_Flashlight.php
1AAA, runs 4 hr on a energizer L92 lithium, bright as the RR 1AA 1 watt (which is a Nuwai X-1), 
small as your finger, $16.

Review here: http://www.light-reviews.com/streamlight_microstream/
Mine has none of the 'bad' attributes cited by light-reviews.

CPF Review here:https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/183590

It's my EDC. So, like a true-believer, I'll say:* "You gotta GET ONE!!"*
SL also makes the Stylus Pro, which is essentially a Microstream with an extra battery (2AAA).
-------------------------------------------------------------------
*$1.99 Evereadys*:
The old, made-in-the-USA, nickel plated brass lights (~1940's-50's) were great and reliable lights. 
As a kid I spent hours using my grandfather's old Sears light as a "ray gun", pushing the button to get a pulse of "light-rays". 
One like this:






It probably cost two or three bucks in 1949...and's worth $100's now.:sigh:
The death of the reliable $2 light was *plastic*, and cheap asian workmanship. Plastic bodied lights with cheap "switches" are the slap-it-around-til-it-lights kind you're talking about, I think.

The HD1AA is worlds above those, and they're great beater lights.
Yep, there are 'flashlight snobs'- "most lumens, best anodize, most throw, best titanium finish, 13 minute runtime on 2XCR123...blah, blah..."
But everyone of them probably has a 9LED, 3AAA, $4 light stashed away...that he's ashamed he bought, and won't mention in public. 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*Streamlight Nano:*
I don't have any experience with it, but it gets good reviews here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/207400

For $7-$8, what can I lose?....Yeah, I know: $7 or $8 bucks! But from the reviews, probably not a risk. Wish it used LR44's though...3X the mAH of the LR41.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 5, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> do we really have to use the LTC3400 for the prototype? or are there any other options? [say this?]
> 
> I dont think micro SOT-223s can be soldered by hand, not by the off the shelf irons here, none of the tips are narrow enough. A bit of flux then heat maybe, but these chips disintegrate internally if you apply heat to the pins too hot or too long...I've destroyed alot this way....



Where I worked as an engineer for about a bazillion years, we soldered those using 63/37 *solder paste*. Dab it on the pads, dab it on the leads, mate the two together, and gently blast with a heat gun...it's called 'solder reflow'. 
A hot-plate will work too, but it'll reflow all the solder on the board.
You can make little sheetmetal cones to narrow the heat gun's hot air and control it better than a hot-plate.

If the part is small enough, and you can heat all the pads & leads at the same time, the surface tension of the molten solder will drag the part and center it perfectly on the pads.


----------



## Illum (Dec 5, 2008)

I'm well aware of reflow soldering...I was referring to hand soldering by iron
For components that small some people will say its best to flood the contacts with solder then wick the excess off...or if you have a solder remover. I've never tried that sort of thing before, could it work?

the heat gun seems like an interesting way to solder...but your gonna have to use one with a very small output port, the only heat gun I've seen is the ones you hit heatshrink with, blowing with that and you might blow away your chip. I have no idea where to get a "heat gun stylus"


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 5, 2008)

Do please look at the link in my post up thread. Watch, and marvel.

It's a myth that soldering small pins requires a small tip.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

Soldering a part like this is a piece of cake IF: you are soldering it to an appropriate properly layed out circuit board and you have some soldereing experience. I have 40+ years of soldering experience. I have hand soldered a 64 pin SMD that had 0.025" lead pitch. Not easy but doable. The problem here is I was trying to work with our existing board.

Now I could design a board for it and have some made but thats a little extreme for a $2 light. On the other hand it would not cost me a cent. Several times a year at work we have some boards made up usually multiple designs on the same panel and usually a quanity of 25 panels and they are always 4 layer designs. Quite often I have snuck in a design for my home projects on an empty corner of the panel. The boss doesnt mind as long as I am not adding 50 sq inches to the board or something. I end up with 25 boards when I only need one or two.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Khan:*
> Wrath of Khan was the best ST movie of the bunch,
> "_To the last, I will grapple with thee... from Hell's heart,
> I stab at thee! For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee!_..."
> ...


Yep. Wrath of kahn was great. I bought it back then on VHS (barbaric) and now I have it on DVD. Have to watch it every once in a while. And everything about kahn was great from beginning to the speech.

I'm sort of a flashlight snob. I have over fifty lights, none costing more than $60 or so but at least half cost more than $25. They all have batterys in them but I dont use the nice ones for anything. If I need a light for some project I'm doing I grab a cheapo. I bought the nightfire yesterday - I have no use for it but I love it.

I have developed a fondness for the HD1AA. I dont know how anyone can say its poorly made especially for $2. Its a work of art at that price. I have had one in my pocket everday since you started all this. Its been turned on and off at least 25 times a day (a few of those times I actually needed to use it), dropped down a flight of stairs and rolled off the table by my cat and it still works perfect. Would I put my LD01 or E01 or L1T in my pocket all day. NO WAY.

I'll look into the microstream when I order a nanaolite


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> do we really have to use the LTC3400 for the prototype? or are there any other options? [say this?]
> 
> ....


 That part looks like a complex circuit. The 3400 may not have been the best choice. Here is what happened. I was at work and needed to make an order from DigiKey for some parts I needed for work. At the last minute I thought let me take a quick search for a driver chip. Well that quick search ended up being 45 minutes. Yes there are quite a variety of them available in various packages and specifications. But it was which ones in stock, which ones you need to buy a minumum of 200, which one cost $2, which one cost $8 etc etc. So I just said the heck with it - 3400 it is and added it to the list and here we are. The part cost me nothing so nothing lost nothing gained.

So unless someones got an idea we are dead in the water. Its not worth it for me or anyone to order another driver chip for $1 to $10 and pay shipping on top of that. Of course if someone has a good electronics distributor nearby and can get one that way. 

Could always ask for samples from Linear, TI etc if anyone wants to do that.


----------



## davidt1 (Dec 6, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Khan:*
> Wrath of Khan was the best ST movie of the bunch, and better than most, if not all, the TV episodes. Gotta whup together one of those Genesis machines!  Kirk showed real flashaholic spirit when he "modded" the Kobayashi Maru problem, "adjusting" the parameters so he could pass.
> 
> Best speech, Khan quoting Melville, Moby ****:
> ...



I love my Nano. The best tool is one that's always there when you need it. My Nano is on my watch band. I don't even have to search for my keychain or reach into my pocket to find it when I need it. The rated 8 hour run time is very modest. I have run it constantly for 16 hours with usable output. 

If the Microstream was 3'' or less long, it would be perfect for me as I am looking for a backup light to keep in my wallet. This is why I am looking into buying a Fenix LD01.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 6, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Soldering a part like this is a piece of cake IF: you are soldering it to an appropriate properly layed out circuit board and you have some soldereing experience. I have 40+ years of soldering experience. I have hand soldered a 64 pin SMD that had 0.025" lead pitch. Not easy but doable. The problem here is I was trying to work with our existing board.
> 
> Now I could design a board for it and have some made but thats a little extreme for a $2 light. On the other hand it would not cost me a cent. Several times a year at work we have some boards made up usually multiple designs on the same panel and usually a quanity of 25 panels and they are always 4 layer designs. Quite often I have snuck in a design for my home projects on an empty corner of the panel. The boss doesnt mind as long as I am not adding 50 sq inches to the board or something. I end up with 25 boards when I only need one or two.



Back when I was making LED lights from scratch, I made my own PC boards, in a one-off, labor intensive kinda way. 
These were simple 1 or 2 transistor circuits based on the Brinkman design.
http://edusite10.tripod.com/led3/brink/brinkmann.gif

If I only wanted one, then I'd layout the board with thin ink or pencil lines that separated it into square and rectangular pads. Then using a Dremel tool with a thin cut-off wheel, I'd cut thru the upper surface copper along the lines to form the board.

If I needed several, I'd cover the board with vinyl electrical tape, draw the 
cut-lines on the tape, and cut thin strips (~1/64) along the lines with an X-acto knife and peel out the strips. This left the cut-lines as exposed copper which I'd then etch out using ferric chloride or dilute nitric acid.

These worked well and I could make them about 3/8"X1/2" on 1/32" double sided PC material. SInce I didn't have any way to do photoresist, this worked for me, for LED lights and more complex regenerative short wave receivers. Tedious, but fun.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 6, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> I love my Nano. The best tool is one that's always there when you need it. * My Nano is on my watch band*. I don't even have to search for my keychain or reach into my pocket to find it when I need it. The rated 8 hour run time is very modest. I have run it constantly for 16 hours with usable output.
> 
> If the *Microstream was 3'' or less long*, it would be perfect for me as I am looking for a backup light to keep in my wallet. This is why I am looking into buying a Fenix LD01.



*Davidt1,*
That's a clever use of the Nano. How is it attached to the watchband?
I zoomed the pic, but can't really tell...zip-ties? It's very slick. 

The Microstream is 3.5" long X .6"dia...maybe a bit too chunky for wallet carry. (?)


----------



## davidt1 (Dec 6, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Davidt1,*
> That's a clever use of the Nano. How is it attached to the watchband?
> I zoomed the pic, but can't really tell...zip-ties? It's very slick.
> 
> The Microstream is 3.5" long X .6"dia...maybe a bit too chunky for wallet carry. (?)



Yes, those are zip ties wrapped around a piece of rubber wrapped around the watch band. I can put an AA battery in my wallet, so a flashlight with a diameter of 10.5 mm or less would fit. It would have to be less than 3'' long though. 

The slick factor wears out in a few days. It's the usefulness factor that I appreciate everyday.

Thanks for the comments.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Back when I was making LED lights from scratch, I made my own PC boards, in a one-off, labor intensive kinda way.
> These were simple 1 or 2 transistor circuits based on the Brinkman design.
> http://edusite10.tripod.com/led3/brink/brinkmann.gif


 
I gave up trying to make my own PCB's way back in my late teens. Too much trouble and mess. Much easier to have them made the way I do now:nana: 
And I get an absolutely flawless silkscreened soldermasked board:nana::nana::nana: 4 Layers to boot:nana::nana::nana::nana:

Cover the board with electrical tape. Must have taken hours

BTW there in nothing showing up on your link.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 6, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I gave up trying to make my own PCB's way back in my late teens. Too much trouble and mess. Much easier to have them made the way I do now:nana:
> And I get an absolutely flawless silkscreened soldermasked board:nana::nana::nana: 4 Layers to boot:nana::nana::nana::nana:
> 
> Cover the board with *electrical tape. Must have taken hours*
> ...



No, the taping is quick...each board just 3/8X1/2" and I only made about 2-3 at a time. :

*WTF!?* Here's the link to the whole Brinkman section:
http://edusite10.tripod.com/led3/brink/brink.html


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 6, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I gave up trying to make my own PCB's way back in my late teens. Too much trouble and mess. Much easier to have them made the way I do now:nana:


But that is a teeny bit expensive if you have to pay for the order, especially with a minimum quantity of 25 or so. Like what was done in this thread, which is another adventure that has just run and run. 

I tried making PCBs as a teenager too. It is kind of fun if you like chemistry. *flashlife*, have you tried the laser printer method for putting the etch screen on PCBs? You print your layout mirror image on a laser printer, and then transfer it onto the board with an iron for etching. It gives you neat layouts with no complex photoetching required.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *WTF!?* Here's the link to the whole Brinkman section:
> http://edusite10.tripod.com/led3/brink/brink.html


 
Ok It worked. 

Hey remember that really dumb idea you had about the 2n2222. :laughing:I was thinking about that. I might try something later on the breadboard but with a PNP instead.

But, The wife wants me to light the woodstove, put christmas decorations outside, bring firewood in etc,etc. She does not understand there are far more important thing in life than that crap.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> But that is a teeny bit expensive if you have to pay for the order, especially with a minimum quantity of 25 or so. Like what was done in this thread, which is another adventure that has just run and run.
> 
> Yeah But I'm not paying. Typically we have a run of boards made. Overall the board will be about 12" x 12" with 3 or 4 different boards on it sometimes more. Typical cost is around $2000 but we end up with about 100 (or more) boards so the end cost is about $20 ea.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 6, 2008)

When I go shopping today, I have to get some form of magnification so I can take a soldering iron to that board. My eyesight is really not up to fine detail any more. :mecry: A binocular microscope would be nice, but I might have to compromise a bit...

I have a modification idea to try on the circuit, but I won't embarrass myself by revealing it until I have tried it out.

BTW, holepuncher, I tried pushing the circuit out with a wooden dowel like you said, and it worked fine.  But in your picture you have separated the boards from the spacer ring and made it look like you did it without cutting any wires... :huh: That's quite a puzzle how you did that


----------



## Light Sabre (Dec 6, 2008)

FYI: My last major job used ExpressPCB - Free PCB layout software - Low cost circuit boards - Top quality PCB manufacturing. 3 PCB's for around $51. Turn around was pretty quick. You download their free PCB layout software, you lay out your board, you upload the layout to their website, and you get a price quote (silk screen was extra, etc) and delivery date right after you uploaded your layout. We never had a problem with their PCB's. Worked great. Excellent board quality. :thumbsup:


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I have a modification idea to try on the circuit, but I won't embarrass myself by revealing it until I have tried it out.
> 
> BTW, holepuncher, I tried pushing the circuit out with a wooden dowel like you said, and it worked fine.  But in your picture you have separated the boards from the spacer ring and made it look like you did it without cutting any wires... :huh: That's quite a puzzle how you did that


 
Aw come on dont be like that. Reveal the idea So what if it dont work. I tried things that didn't work and ed things etc. For that I wont tell you how I separated the ring. 

OK I'll tell you. On one I sliced the ring vertically and slid the wires out the crack. On another I soldered and resoldered.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 6, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Aw come on dont be like that. Reveal the idea So what if it dont work.


Well...my idea is to remove the capacitor and the diode from the circuit. Detach the sense input on the IC from its current location and connect it instead to the positive supply rail from the battery. Reconnect the LED between the base of the coil and ground. Possibly reconnect the cap across the battery supply as a bypass cap.

My theory is that connecting the LED directly to the coil will drive it in pulse mode, but you can do this to LEDs and sometimes they run brighter that way than with the equivalent average current. In addition we eliminate any power loss that was wasted in the diode. Connecting the IC sense input to the positive supply will make it run at its maximum rate all the time, and it will hopefully get enough power from the lower voltage input to switch the FET. The input bypass cap will bypass noise from the inductor round the IC and perhaps help to stabilize the IC circuitry.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Well...my idea is to remove the capacitor and the diode from the circuit. Detach the sense input on the IC from its current location and connect it instead to the positive supply rail from the battery. Reconnect the LED between the base of the coil and ground. Possibly reconnect the cap across the battery supply as a bypass cap.
> 
> My theory is that connecting the LED directly to the coil will drive it in pulse mode, but you can do this to LEDs and sometimes they run brighter that way than with the equivalent average current. In addition we eliminate any power loss that was wasted in the diode. *Connecting the IC sense input to the positive supply will make it run at its maximum rate all the time,* and it will hopefully get enough power from the lower voltage input to switch the FET. The input bypass cap will bypass noise from the inductor round the IC and perhaps help to stabilize the IC circuitry.


 
Well if you go back to where I posted about the Rayovac lights and found they were connected as you describe with no diode and cap. Adding the diode and cap made them much brighter. Your theory about pulse mode maybe correct if you could get the chip/inductor to deliver a longer pulse into the led. 

Connecting the sense to the supply --- I tried that. I have not been able to figure out how that sense actually works. Connecting it to the + Batt gives less output. Logic would suggest that connecting it to ground would give the highest output but that is not the case either. The only thing that seemed to increase the output was the feedback divider resistors.

Let me know what happens


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

Light Sabre said:


> FYI: My last major job used ExpressPCB - Free PCB layout software - Low cost circuit boards - Top quality PCB manufacturing. 3 PCB's for around $51. Turn around was pretty quick. You download their free PCB layout software, you lay out your board, you upload the layout to their website, and you get a price quote (silk screen was extra, etc) and delivery date right after you uploaded your layout. We never had a problem with their PCB's. Worked great. Excellent board quality. :thumbsup:


 
Yeah I heard their pretty good for the hobbyist but the $51 is for 3 tiny boards and their software is limited to only two layers. Where I work we use 4 layers. I use Circuit Maker 2000 software which I believe is obsolete or they went out of business. Wasn't too expensive. If I rememer it was somewhere in the $300 to $400 range.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 6, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> But that is a teeny bit expensive if you have to pay for the order, especially with a minimum quantity of 25 or so. Like what was done in this thread, which is another adventure that has just run and run.
> 
> I tried making PCBs as a teenager too. It is kind of fun if you like chemistry. *flashlife*, have you tried the *laser printer method for putting the etch screen on PCBs?* You print your layout mirror image on a laser printer, and then transfer it onto the board with an iron for etching. It gives you neat layouts with no complex photoetching required.



*No ! I'd forgotten about that!* I may have to give it a shot....but, not paying attention like I should, I don't know whether my printer is a laser or an inkjet. DOH! Oh well, I can get Staples, or Office Depot to print stuff out on their laserjets for me.

What media/paper to do print it on? Regular copy paper, vellum...What?


----------



## flashlife (Dec 6, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Ok It worked.
> 
> Hey remember that really dumb idea you had about the *2n2222*. :laughing:I was thinking about that. I might try something later on the breadboard but with a *PNP* instead.
> 
> But, The wife wants me to light the woodstove, put christmas decorations outside, bring firewood in etc,etc. She does not understand there are far more important thing in life than that crap.



PNP...NPN...PDQ...You Guys are so touchy! 

Yeah, that could solve the so-called "polarity problem" ! "...Backwards..."!, etc. 

See, when you live a 'primitive' life, using words like "woodstove" and "firewood", you don't have enough "leisure" time to pursue more _artistic endeavors_ like circuit design, flashlight modification, and plinking cans with a .22.


----------



## JWP_EE (Dec 6, 2008)

I went back to the spec for the AIC1642. BTW: you never did tell us how you identified the chip. Was the number marked on the bottom?

After read the spec a few times I believe I know how the sense pin works. The sense is just an enable for the 100KHz OSC. The idea being if this part is used for something that doesn't need much current then the FET is turned off by gating off the OSC. This saves power because the switching circuit is turned off when it is not needed. When the voltage drops low enough the OSC and switching circuit is turned back on to replenish the charge on the cap.

In a flashlight the current draw should be enough so the OSC is never turned off and the chip runs in continuous conduction mode. And if it is turning off it is probably because of the 100KHz on/off timing and the value of the inductor that is being used.

I also noticed if I don't slow down on my post I will be labeled a "Flashaholic" and I am not so sure I can carry that weight on my shoulders yet.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 6, 2008)

JWP_EE said:


> I went back to the spec for the AIC1642. BTW: you never did tell us how you identified the chip. Was the number marked on the bottom?
> 
> After read the spec a few times I believe I know how the sense pin works. The sense is just an enable for the 100KHz OSC. The idea being if this part is used for something that doesn't need much current then the FET is turned off by gating off the OSC. This saves power because the switching circuit is turned off when it is not needed. When the voltage drops low enough the OSC and switching circuit is turned back on to replenish the charge on the cap.
> 
> ...



*Too Late!!* Your in depth analysis of the inner workings of a $0.25 driver for a $2.00 Chinese flashlight makes it clear to all who see...*you are a flashaholic !!* Welcome to the obsession. 

_______________________ <- standard, sane folks, Here

_______________________ <- point of no return, Here

*--------------------------* <- JWP_EE, Here.


*BTW*, I think you're right, the AIC doc seems to make a big point of only turning on the osc. 'when needed'.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 6, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Connecting the sense to the supply --- I tried that. I have not been able to figure out how that sense actually works. Connecting it to the + Batt gives less output. Logic would suggest that connecting it to ground would give the highest output but that is not the case either. The only thing that seemed to increase the output was the feedback divider resistors.


 I think the sense input does double duty as feedback and also power supply to the chip. I recall you mentioned up thread somewhere about needing sufficient voltage to drive the gate of the FET. Well I have an idea that the chip uses the high voltage on the sense input to help drive the FET harder. If that is the case, then it would follow that connecting the sense to a lower voltage such as + Batt would reduce the efficiency. The voltage divider would optimize the system by providing a balance between a high enough input voltage for good operation, but low enough to drive up the output of the regulator.

See, I said I didn't want to embarrass myself with an idea that might not work 



> Let me know what happens


When I find some way to work on the tiny boards, will do.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

JWP_EE said:


> I went back to the spec for the AIC1642. BTW: you never did tell us how you identified the chip. Was the number marked on the bottom?
> 
> When the voltage drops low enough the OSC and switching circuit is turned back on to replenish the charge on the cap.
> 
> I also noticed if I don't slow down on my post I will be labeled a "Flashaholic" and I am not so sure I can carry that weight on my shoulders yet.


 
I happened to stumble onto the AIC1642. After that I stumbled on to about 4 or 5 more chip data sheets from various companies - different part#' but almost identical chip and specifications. I have them written down somewhere but I can't seem to find them. I'll post the numbers later.

What you said about the voltage dropping low enough and the osc turn back on is what one would expect. Howevr from breadboarding this thing that is not the case. The pin wants to be at some voltage around 3 or so volts. Raise it much more than that and it shuts down. Like wise lowering it it shuts down.

Now hurry up and respond to my post so you can become a flashaholic. Lets get this show on the road.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

flashlife said:


> See, when you live a 'primitive' life, using words like "woodstove" and "firewood", you don't have enough "leisure" time to pursue more _artistic endeavors_ like circuit design, flashlight modification, and plinking cans with a .22.


 
Wow. Can you plink cans in your back yard? Around here you would be hung and burned at the stake if you even brandished a firearm in your yard. I have to pay $165 per year for membership to a private gun club to do my shooting. Of course not too many years ago when I was crazier I would just shoot the .22's downstairs with my wife upstairs screaming the whole time.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 6, 2008)

I just checked the mail and a fenix P2D was in there. I swear I did not order it

Dang Fenix's dont come with battery's. Now I have to disable one of my others.


----------



## Illum (Dec 6, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> I just checked the mail and a fenix P2D was in there. I swear I did not order it
> 
> Dang Fenix's dont come with battery's. Now I have to disable one of my others.



EDIT: I was joking
Before I buy something like that, I would usually have on in my own collection


----------



## flashlife (Dec 7, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Wow. *Can you plink cans in your back yard*? Around here you would be hung and burned at the stake if you even brandished a firearm in your yard. I have to pay $165 per year for membership to a private gun club to do my shooting. Of course not too many years ago when I was crazier I would just shoot the .22's downstairs with my wife upstairs screaming the whole time.



*Backyard...not likely*.  This suburb of Dallas even prohibits bow & arrows, slingshots and BB guns.

We have a small cabin-in-the-woods in SE Oklahoma, in a 'colony/village' that has it's own 0-100meter range. Very informal, bring your own cans, targets, etc, and police up you own trash. No range officials or other controls. Usually I'm the only one there, so I drive downrange to the backstop/berm to shoot various handguns at 0-20m. I'm hell on tin cans. 

What I've always wanted, but can't afford, is 2500 acres in the SW somewhere (NM, AZ ?). If the 2500 is square, you could build a cabin in the center and be 1 mile from your nearest boundary. THEN I could plink from the back porch, without disturbing nor endangering the neighbors.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 7, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> oh good, it arrived safely
> Merry Christmas



*Now, THAT's a friendly gesture ! 

Kudos to you, Illum! * :twothumbs

( My "wish list" will arrive at your house via FedEx early Monday.)


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> oh good, it arrived safely
> Merry Christmas


 
Thanks very much. I guess in return I'll have to send you that Nightfire 2C. Keep checking your mailbox.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Backyard...not likely*.  This suburb of Dallas even prohibits bow & arrows, slingshots and BB guns.
> 
> We have a small cabin-in-the-woods in SE Oklahoma, in a 'colony/village' that has it's own 0-100meter range. Very informal, bring your own cans, targets, etc, and police up you own trash. No range officials or other controls. Usually I'm the only one there, so I drive downrange to the backstop/berm to shoot various handguns at 0-20m. I'm hell on tin cans.
> 
> What I've always wanted, but can't afford, is 2500 acres in the SW somewhere (NM, AZ ?). If the 2500 is square, you could build a cabin in the center and be 1 mile from your nearest boundary. THEN I could plink from the back porch, without disturbing nor endangering the neighbors.


 
Hell on tin cans Ha!. I USED to be pretty good with a Ruger MKII with just the iron sights. Not any more. Have to use the ol red dot. With something like a 357 or 9mm now I just like to hear it go boom. I'm lucky if I hit somewhere on the target frame never mind the target. Maybe I should see if my eye doctor can help.

I hate those people that can plink from their porch.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

Well its a snowy morning here in little o'l RI. So whats a guy to do. Play with flashlights of course. I have a new invention. I took the driver chip and inductor from a HD1aa and surgically stuffed them into a PR13 incandescant bulb base and topped it with a K2 led (wasn't going to waste a cree). Then I put it in a Mag 2D. Pics to follow on my next post after I get some FTP software going on my computer. If I cant do it you can be expecting an email flashlife


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

Ok Hope I do this right. First pic is of the chip with the inductor soldered to it.









Next is the completed package







Probably getting around 250 ma into the K2. If the capacitor and diode were in there as well I'll bet it would be close to 500ma but there is no heatsinking on the led. Gets a little warm at 250. Seems pretty bright. At least as bright as a stock 2d mag. With tight focus I can see this thing throwing a few hundred feet or more. 

Flashlife. I posted the pics without you. I knew I could do it


----------



## flashlife (Dec 7, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Ok Hope I do this right. First pic is of the chip with the inductor soldered to it.
> ...
> Flashlife. I posted the pics without you. I knew I could do it



Good deal on the pics.

Only thing is:
Use your photoshop, picture editor, etc to "resample" (preferable) or "resize" to 640 wide max. Then we won't have to scroll sideways to see it all. 

If you don't have a good editor, and you're using Windows, you can resize using MS Photo Editor...just resize to 50%X50%.


----------



## Illum (Dec 7, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Now, THAT's a friendly gesture !
> 
> Kudos to you, Illum! * :twothumbs
> 
> ( My "wish list" will arrive at your house via FedEx early Monday.)



I was joking, I guess the crackup smilie doesn't get the point through:laughing:
I would if I could just for what he gave to this thread though

well done on the soldering Holepuncher, why not use a low current inductor [the one that gets confused with ceramic resistors?] it would be a heck of alot more space saving than the ferrite cores. might want to level the resolution to 800x800 as per forum regulations, not that it matters much at the moment

Come to think of it, the only PR can mods I've done is stuffing a resistored 10mm white LED in and back fill with epoxy, I feel so embarrassed posting this now


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

OK. Flashlife and Illum_the_nation. I fixed the pic. PICKY, PICKY, PICKY


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I
> Come to think of it, the only PR can mods I've done is stuffing a resistored 10mm white LED in and back fill with epoxy, I feel so embarrassed posting this now


 
10mm LEDYou should be embarrassed:thumbsdow

Just Kidding. This was actually almost as easy as what you did.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 7, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Just Kidding. This was actually almost as easy as what you did.


Easy? Easy? You are making me cry.

I am seriously impressed by that PR13 assembly :bow:

The last time I did any electronic soldering was in 1979. Getting those little parts into a PR13 base is like getting a ship in a bottle, only in miniature. I don't think anyone would have imagined it 30 years ago.

Maybe there's a trick to it, like do you tack them together (Blu Tack?) to keep them fixed in position before soldering?


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Easy? Easy? You are making me cry.
> 
> I am seriously impressed by that PR13 assembly :bow:
> 
> ...


 
I'm serious. This was simple although my 49 year old eyes are not what they used to be. No glue was used. I soldered the inductor to the chip as seen in the pic. Next I attached the 3 leads seen in the pic. Next the side that has only one lead was inserted into the PR base. I heated the center contact of the PR and pushed the lead through it. That left me with the other two leads sticking out of the PR, one of which got soldered to the PR case along with the negative side of the LED. That left the one lead which was then formed and soldered to the led positive.

So easy a caveman could do it


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 7, 2008)

I always wanted to make pr2 base modules but getting slugs to dissapate the heat to the bulb case from the LED and finding circuit able to push enough current to a high power emitter while getting proper focus in most non LED lights can be a mess. I have soldered 3-4 5mm LEDs to pr2 bases with dropping resistors for 3-4 cells lights several times but the output of them is dissapointing in lights.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I always wanted to make pr2 base modules but getting slugs to dissapate the heat to the bulb case from the LED and finding circuit able to push enough current to a high power emitter while getting proper focus in most non LED lights can be a mess. I have soldered 3-4 5mm LEDs to pr2 bases with dropping resistors for 3-4 cells lights several times but the output of them is dissapointing in lights.


 
This actually focuses nice in the mag 2D. When I defocus though I get the typical beautiful mag artifacts - rings, holes, clamshell shapes, cigar shapes, star shapes etc. Getting a little heat too. Its running at about 3/4 watt but does not seem too hot. Not seeing any dimming or tint shifts but if it 's who cares. Its only a lowly K2


----------



## Illum (Dec 7, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> I always wanted to make pr2 base modules but getting slugs to dissapate the heat to the bulb case from the LED and finding circuit able to push enough current to a high power emitter while getting proper focus in most non LED lights can be a mess. I have soldered 3-4 5mm LEDs to pr2 bases with dropping resistors for 3-4 cells lights several times but the output of them is dissapointing in lights.



One of the main reasons why I stuck to 10mm LEDs, at 20ma they don't fry themselves that easily...unless you managed to overload the resistor with a FUBAR voltage



Holepuncher said:


> 10mm LEDYou should be embarrassed:thumbsdow
> 
> Just Kidding. This was actually almost as easy as what you did.



http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3125355
anyone here remember the TLE-1 Spotmiser from Terralux? 
no? well here's what it looked like


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 7, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> This actually focuses nice in the mag 2D. When I defocus though I get the typical beautiful mag artifacts - rings, holes, clamshell shapes, cigar shapes, star shapes etc. Getting a little heat too. Its running at about 3/4 watt but does not seem too hot. Not seeing any dimming or tint shifts but if it 's who cares. Its only a lowly K2


I put a dropin magled in a roughneck 2D incan that focuses and another magled dropin in a kids power rangers 2AA light but I had to drill the bulb holders on both lights to accommodate. Focusing incans are easy to make dropins for. I have a whole bunch of PR bulbs I could use for bases but I need to pick up some cheap emitters and stars to practice with.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 7, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> One of the main reasons why I stuck to 10mm LEDs, at 20ma they don't fry themselves that easily...unless you managed to overload the resistor with a FUBAR voltage
> 
> http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3125355
> anyone here remember the TLE-1 Spotmiser from Terralux?
> no? well here's what it looked like


 
I bought some very similar 10mm led's from Marlin P. Jones a few years ago. Dont know if they were the exact same thing you mentioned but they claimed something like 28K mcd and they probably are for a few hours.

Anyway I have a small room downstairs that I turned into a storage room. It is very WHITE. I put white cabinets on the walls white cabinets on the floor with a white countertop on those, white drop ceiling and white vynil
flloor. My Wife complained that when you walk into this room from my garage you can't turn the light on till you reach the other side of the room. So it took one of the 10mm leds and wired it into the 12VDC from the alarm sytsem and ran it at 25Ma attached it to the ceiling and it was great and it ran 24/7 . Lit up the room. After a month it slowly dimmed to the point that it looked like a star in the sky. I put another one in and ran it at only 15 ma. Same thing happened. Chinese Crap. I have a K2 in there now running at 50 ma and its been fine for over a year.


----------



## JWP_EE (Dec 7, 2008)

I soldered a red LED and series resistor to a PR bulb about 20 years ago. I still use it in a 2X AA light when I am out for the evening with one of my telescopes.


----------



## LightObsession (Dec 8, 2008)

These ain't no Fenix L1Ps! Not by a long shot.

I picked some up today at Home Depot and they're good for $2.50 each, but the tint, beam shape/quality and throw are obviously better on my two year old Fenix L1P than on the Huskies, but I'm not buying Fenix lights as gifts for people who will likely loose them.


----------



## gratewhitehuntr (Dec 8, 2008)

flashlife said:


> But everyone of them probably has a 9LED, 3AAA, $4 light stashed away...that he's ashamed he bought, and won't mention in public.
> -----



no:sick2:

no

maybe:ironic:


----------



## Skyeye (Dec 8, 2008)

I just got back from Home Depot. They had about 10 of the twin pack 1AA's. I believe that the finish is more of a powder coating. The lanyard is cheap but it does have a quick release. The beam is not bad out the box and I probably won't mod mine. Click cap bothers me though as it makes a lot of noise when pressed. Probably will go south quickly. Nice light for stocking stuffer.


----------



## lumenal (Dec 12, 2008)

I browsed through 6 or 7 packages of these lights today...out of the 100 or so on display at the local Home Depot.

From what I could see, the LEDs in these lights look eerily similar to the LEDs used in the RiverRock 2xAAA lights. :thinking:


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 12, 2008)

Well, I finally found some time to dismantle one of the circuit boards and breadboard it. Here are my results so far.

Firstly, tried for myself the idea of eliminating the capacitor and diode, and just connecting the LED directly between the coil and ground. It lit up, but not as brightly as the stock configuration. I also tried replacing the 10 uF cap with 47 uF in the stock configuration, but it didn't make any difference to the brightness.

The voltage divider on the feedback pin as described by Holepuncher definitely works best for increasing the brightness. By connecting a pot and watching the brightness on a light meter, I found a 3:1 ratio gave maximum output. I settled on a combination of 1k and 2.7k as a result, scaling the feedback voltage by about 3/4.

Here are some measurements that I made.

With heavy duty cell supplied (1.44 V no load)

Stock: relative brightness 100, current draw 0.18 A

With voltage divider: relative brightness 115, current draw 0.24 A

With a fresh alkaline cell (1.53 V no load)

Stock: relative brightness 100, current draw 0.17 A

With voltage divider: relative brightness 140, current draw 0.32 A

So it appears the regulation is quite good in the stock configuration. At higher supply voltages the brightness remains the same and the current draw is lower.

It also can be seen how LED efficiency is much lower at higher drive levels. The brightness only increased by 40% although the supply current almost doubled.

Maybe next I'll try to hone my soldering skills by making the voltage divider modification on a circuit board and reassembling a light.


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 12, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Well, I finally found some time to dismantle one of the circuit boards and breadboard it. Here are my results so far.
> 
> I also tried replacing the 10 uF cap with 47 uF in the stock configuration, but it didn't make any difference to the brightness.
> 
> ...



Hmmmm. Interesting. I found that the stock light has zero regulation. The addition of the larger cap made the light brighter, not dramatic but noticeable and gave it very good regulation. I still have one of these apart on my bench. Have to try it again.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 12, 2008)

Holepuncher said:


> Hmmmm. Interesting. I found that the stock light has zero regulation. The addition of the larger cap made the light brighter, not dramatic but noticeable and gave it very good regulation. I still have one of these apart on my bench. Have to try it again.


Maybe I am overstimating the range of regulation based those two data points. I will do more tests too.

I should also mention that I was using a big 10 uF 35 V electrolytic rather than the tiny stock one, for ease of plugging into the board. Perhaps the big one was working more efficiently? (Lower ESR?)


----------



## flashlife (Dec 12, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> ...
> 
> The voltage divider on the feedback pin as described by Holepuncher definitely works best for increasing the brightness. By connecting a pot and watching the brightness on a light meter, I found a 3:1 ratio gave maximum output. I settled on a combination of 1k and 2.7k as a result, scaling the feedback voltage by about 3/4.
> 
> ...



*Is a 40% increase in brightness at ~2X the current draw worth it ??*
If the brightness doubled, I could see it...but 40%?? 
Seems like that would eat batteries without much visible difference. ??


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 12, 2008)

flashlife said:


> *Is a 40% increase in brightness at ~2X the current draw worth it ??*
> If the brightness doubled, I could see it...but 40%??
> Seems like that would eat batteries without much visible difference. ??


 
I'm shocked at you for saying that. The guy that started all this. You should be burned at the stake at midnight

Who cares if it eats batterys. These lights are not worth playing with other than for the fun and education of it. I think a few of us, myself included had some fun and learned a little. I think though, my beamshots show I doubled the light output. I dont think theres anyway to improve the efficiency without changing the driver chip.


----------



## Hondo (Dec 12, 2008)

I thought I would add, since one of the most common failure modes on these is the switch, and it is a bit firm to operate, that I like these much better as twisties. After cleaning and lubing, the head makes a very nice twisty switch, just leave the tailcap on and tight. Works just like a Fenix AAA light. Twisting the tailcap does not work so well, it starts making contact over a wide range of engagement. I now have 10 of these in good order and had to return 4 for various reasons. My current draws range from 110 to 190 mA, BTW.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 12, 2008)

Hondo said:


> I like these much better as twisties. After cleaning and lubing, the head makes a very nice twisty switch, just leave the tailcap on and tight.


I wonder, have you measured the current draw with the head untwisted? Even though it may not light up, there may still be enough residual current drain through the partial thread contact to drain the battery while switched off.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 12, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> I wonder, have you measured the current draw with the head untwisted? Even though it may not light up, there may still be enough residual current drain through the partial thread contact to drain the battery while switched off.


the contact for the negative power is on the circuit board to the top of the tube so unscrewing the top enough should break the circuit.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 12, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> the contact for the negative power is on the circuit board to the top of the tube so unscrewing the top enough should break the circuit.


On my lights, "unscrewing the top enough" results in a quarter inch gap between the head and the last screw thread. Until someone comes up with force field generated air molecule screw threads, this isn't going to be possible


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 12, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> On my lights, "unscrewing the top enough" results in a quarter inch gap between the head and the last screw thread. Until someone comes up with force field generated air molecule screw threads, this isn't going to be possible


the three I have left about one turn and they are off unless you push on the head then maybe 1/4 to 1/2 more turn.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 12, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> the three I have left about one turn and they are off unless you push on the head then maybe 1/4 to 1/2 more turn.


I wonder, have you measured the current draw with the head untwisted? Even though it may not light up, there may still be enough residual current drain through the partial thread contact to drain the battery while switched off.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 12, 2008)

I will measure all 3 lights.... ok here goes.

first one..... nothing
second one..... nothing
third one...... nothing
meter is a craftsman 82209 auto ranging on 400maDC scale. 
The last light surges to ~450ma when turned on dropping to 135.6ma after the inductor charges up.


----------



## Hondo (Dec 12, 2008)

I am not sure how there could be any drain. The neg. path as Lynx_Arc says, is from the outer trace on the PC board to the end of the bat. tube. The theads in the head only contact the edge of the board and the plastic cylinder it is seated on. All of my lights turn on and off with only about 1/8 of a turn or less. Pushing or bending the head sideways will give momentary activation, and an additional 1/2 turn out will prevent any activation. I get exactly the same feel and behavior as my Fenix twisties. YMMV.


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 13, 2008)

Hondo said:


> I am not sure how there could be any drain. The neg. path as Lynx_Arc says, is from the outer trace on the PC board to the end of the bat. tube. The theads in the head only contact the edge of the board and the plastic cylinder it is seated on.


Ah, I see my mistake. I somehow was fixated on the positive battery button and not the negative edge of the tube. Forget I said anything...


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 13, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Ah, I see my mistake. I somehow was fixated on the positive battery button and not the negative edge of the tube. Forget I said anything...


you can sit on my side then.... I have done that a few times in the forum lately too :laughing: If the finish on the threads on the inside of the head wore down it could make possibly make contact with the edge of the circuit board and then through the tube and then you would have that problem.


----------



## LightObsession (Dec 15, 2008)

One of my four is DOA. It appears that the head won't screw down all the way.


----------



## boss429 (Dec 15, 2008)

LightObsession said:


> One of my four is DOA. It appears that the head won't screw down all the way.


 
Clean the threads if you haven't already.:tinfoil:


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 15, 2008)

LightObsession said:


> One of my four is DOA. It appears that the head won't screw down all the way.


Psst.... you are supposed to check all the lights before you leave the home depot parking lot.... I am guessing about 25% of these are bad and chances are if you buy 4 you will need to have one replaced but they will give you your money back and you get another package and hope you get a good pair or can go to the service desk and get the one good one of the two you had to trade in.


----------



## george9c1 (Dec 17, 2008)

Didn't review the whole thread to see if this has been posted but these lights are now marked down to 2.97 a pack in my area. I picked up two packs and checked them in the parking lot as recommended. First pack.... two dead lights. Second pack, two working lights. Got my money back on the dead ones, and brought the survivors home for testing. One is significantly brighter and draws 170 mA, the other draws 150 mA. 

When I get tired of playing with them as is I'm going to try making one into a pure flood light by removing the reflector and using a spacer and sleeve arrangement between the board and battery/body tube . I'm geussing an o ring behind the lens should provide enough backspacing for the emitter.


----------



## Beamhead (Dec 17, 2008)

$2.97 a pack here too.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 18, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Psst.... you are supposed to *check all the lights before you leave the home depot parking lot*.... *I am guessing about 25% of these are bad* and chances are if you buy 4 you will need to have one replaced but they will give you your money back and you get another package and hope you get a good pair or can go to the service desk and get the one good one of the two you had to trade in.



Lynx, your stats are about right. I got 2 pair for $2.97/pair this AM and one had a bad switch.
Earlier, I bought one pair and one was bad...2 bad out of 6 = *33% flaky*. Stocking stuffers...


----------



## turbosteve (Dec 19, 2008)

Just finished reading all 11 pages of this, sheesh I feel I need to send christmas cards out now after reading so much form some people. I picked up 4 packs of these at 2.97 from my Hd and I guess I'm luck because all 8 fired right up and have endured many on off clickies. I beamed compared all 8 and decided on 2 for me  1 for each of my cars and 4 as stocking stuffers. I was quite amazed in the color differences between all 8 lights, I noted 1 lights in the 3000k range all the way with 2 or so in the 6500k+ range starting to get a bit blue. 

I'd like to take a quick sec and thank Holepuncher and flashlife for all thier informative banter and testing. It was this back and forth that made me drive 20+ miles in my lunch break to the HD to buy them.

Now if I could just figure out how to make the easy mods you all are talking about in laymens terms I'd be doing good. Both in this light and the Rayovac 1AAA mod mentioned in post https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2725927&postcount=190 by Holepuncher. I bought one of these a few days ago and couldn't help myself tearing it apart (I'm aparrently not as lucky as you because I COULD not get my head apart without the tin snips).

Keep up the good work!

Steve


----------



## LightObsession (Dec 20, 2008)

I forget, can these use lithiums so they can be left in the car in the winter?


----------



## Holepuncher (Dec 20, 2008)

Boy these Husky lights sure are husky. A couple of nights ago I was out on my deck and I set one of these husky's down on the table. Yesterday it started snowing here. By nightime there were a few inches. I looked out on the deck and the snow on the table was glowing and I realized I left the light out there all that time. I said the hell with it I'm not going out there now. I just retrieved it now from under almost a foot of snow. It was still glowing a little. I think they should triple the price of these things.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 20, 2008)

LightObsession said:


> I forget, can these use lithiums so they can be left in the car in the winter?


they should be ok with lithium but not lithium ion. at $1.50/light (if you get them at $2.97/pack) the battery would cost as much or more than the light


----------



## turbosteve (Dec 20, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> they should be ok with lithium but not lithium ion. at $1.50/light (if you get them at $2.97/pack) the battery would cost as much or more than the light


 
Why would these not be good for use with L-ION? I've put one in there and ran it for about 30 minutes and yanked it back out yesterday. I was hoping there would be a noticable brightness increase from the voltage but sadly nothing noticable.

Steve


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 21, 2008)

turbosteve said:


> Why would these not be good for use with L-ION? I've put one in there and ran it for about 30 minutes and yanked it back out yesterday. I was hoping there would be a noticable brightness increase from the voltage but sadly nothing noticable.
> 
> Steve


because the circuit isn't designed to put out much, the LED cannot take too much either. It is a waste of time to try to power any LED under a watt with a lithium ion IMO.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 21, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> ...It is a waste of time to try to power any LED under a watt with a lithium ion IMO.



I run both my E01 and Microstream on lithium primaries...mainly for the extended runtime...and the reduced weight.


----------



## davidt1 (Dec 21, 2008)

flashlife said:


> I run both my E01 and Microstream on lithium primaries...mainly for the extended runtime...and the reduced weight.



Do you have a Streamlight Nano by any chance? The Nano and the E01 are both 10 lumen lights. I wonder how they compare in brightness and throw. I have and love the Nano for quick, up-close tasks. I will head to Lighthound soon and might pick up the E01 for $12, if it's brighter and throws longer than the Nano. Thanks.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 21, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> *Do you have a Streamlight Nano by any chance? *The Nano and the E01 are both 10 lumen lights. I wonder how they compare in brightness and throw. I have and love the Nano for quick, up-close tasks. I will head to Lighthound soon and might pick up the E01 for $12, if it's brighter and throws longer than the Nano. Thanks.



*Sorry, I don't have the Nano*. I suspect that since the E01 is a AAA light and the Nano runs on LR41 cells, the E01 will run much longer than the Nano.
The E01 is essentially the Fenix version of the Arc, IMO.

Many folks have compared the E01 to fauxtons, etc, saying they have about equal brightness...at first...but then the E01 outlasts them, having 10-20 hr runtime. For $12, I'd say go for the E01, and get a couple of e2 Energizer lithiums for it. 

If you want more throw and brightness, at a cheap price, I'd say you should look at the Streamlight Microstream. It's a "big flashlight in a small package", with throw and brightness suitable for EDC, forward momentary and clickie, and only about 3/4" longer than the E01. 
$16 at BrightGuy and Lighthound.

I retired my old Coast 1.25 watt 1AA light for the Microstream, and am happy with the change. The E01 stays on my keychain, and the Microstream in my pocket. BUT, if I had to pick only one small bright, cheap light...I go with the Microstream.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 21, 2008)

flashlife said:


> I run both my E01 and Microstream on lithium primaries...mainly for the extended runtime...and the reduced weight.


lithium ion are rechargables..... not primaries. I agree lithium primaries are worth using on all but throwaway and giveaway lights that can handle them properly. I would have lithiums (not lithium ion) in a lot of my stuff if I didn't mind the extra cost over finding alkalines on sale for 25 cents each or less vs $1-$2 for lithiums. Until I get a good income I will use alkalines in a few things lithiums in very select things and nimh in everything else I can use them in.


----------



## flashlife (Dec 21, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> *lithium ion *are rechargables..... not primaries. I agree lithium primaries are worth using on all but throwaway and giveaway lights that can handle them properly. I would have lithiums (not lithium ion) in a lot of my stuff if I didn't mind the extra cost over finding alkalines on sale for 25 cents each or less vs $1-$2 for lithiums. Until I get a good income I will use alkalines in a few things lithiums in very select things and nimh in everything else I can use them in.



Right, Lynx...I misread your post as meaning Li primaries...my bad.


----------



## Photon Joe (Dec 21, 2008)

I made one of mine all flood by grinding the tube on the back of the reflector down untill it was almost gone.
Then sanded the reflector surface with 400 grit sand paper until it no longer reflected much,if any,
and placed an O-ring in front of the lens to take up some of the space made from grinding the tube part down so that the battery could make contact with the springs again.
This allows the LED to protrude farther into the reflector and sans reflection it is now all smooth flood.
Maybe some extra water resistance due to the O-ring between lens and housing ?


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 21, 2008)

flashlife said:


> Right, Lynx...I misread your post as meaning Li primaries...my bad.


no problemo.... but I do think it is funny that putting a $2 battery in a $1.50 light is a good thing :ironic:


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 21, 2008)

Photon Joe said:


> I made one of mine all flood by grinding the tube on the back of the reflector down untill it was almost gone.
> Then sanded the reflector surface with 400 grit sand paper until it no longer reflected much,if any,
> and placed an O-ring in front of the lens to take up some of the space made from grinding the tube part down so that the battery could make contact with the springs again.
> This allows the LED to protrude farther into the reflector and sans reflection it is now all smooth flood.
> Maybe some extra water resistance due to the O-ring between lens and housing ?


I have ground down a reflector to fit a luxeon LED but have been trying to mod the circuit to get enough power out of it to drive the lux brighter than the stock LED which I put in a 9v light that had a red LED.


----------



## LightObsession (Dec 22, 2008)

Lynx_Arc said:


> no problemo.... but I do think it is funny that putting a $2 battery in a $1.50 light is a good thing :ironic:



The use of the lithium battery in the cheap light is to allow it to stay in the car in very cold weather and still function. Alkalines would be dead at 0 F.

I asked the question, because in the headlamp thread, it had been inferred that unregulated lights (Black Diamond Spot) don't handle the higher voltage of the lithiums very well, maybe this only applies to 3 AAA headlamps and not to 1AA hand lights.


----------



## turbosteve (Dec 22, 2008)

flashlife said:


> For added weirdness in the HD1AA saga, I just dissassembled one of mine and "*WTF ?*"... it had *NO 10uF cap* !!.
> On the backside of the _LED board_, there was a tiny SMD component, I think a cap, but no way big enough to be 10uF!
> The driver board only had the coil, diode, and IC !! Hello??
> I went back to check the driver photo (post #58), and yours shows an electrolytic cap on the frontside.


 
I second this, I opened one of mine yesterday to breadboard and play around and found no cap on the main board and a tiny smd component on the LED board. I going to go try another one here soon and see if its the style everyone else is seeing.

Steve


----------



## turbosteve (Dec 22, 2008)

One other quick comment about this LED, a couple of weeks ago I bought a 4 pack of Brinkmann GO-LEDs from RadioShack for $2 and harvested the LEDs and parts for other projects (minimag retro) and when I disassembled the Husky light yesterday I see that the LED looks pretty much identical and it was not a great LED for boosting up it was unappreciative with my mods (limited knowledge here mind you).

Steve


----------



## mikekoz (Dec 22, 2008)

I am not sure if this has been posted here (there is no way I am reading all of these posts!!), but last weekend I was in the Home Depot in Wake Forest, NC, and they had these things down to $2.97!!!:thumbsup: 


Mike


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Dec 22, 2008)

LightObsession said:


> The use of the lithium battery in the cheap light is to allow it to stay in the car in very cold weather and still function. Alkalines would be dead at 0 F.
> 
> I asked the question, because in the headlamp thread, it had been inferred that unregulated lights (Black Diamond Spot) don't handle the higher voltage of the lithiums very well, maybe this only applies to 3 AAA headlamps and not to 1AA hand lights.


I am not sure alkalines would be dead at 0F but probably would be unable to put out much till you warmed the light up some. The 3AAA lights are sometimes direct drive or resistored lights and their poorer design depends on the internal resistance of alkalines to reduce the current to the LEDs preventing excessive overdrive. At times manufacturers recommend not to drive lights with rechargables because the overdrive can heat up things and a short in the circuits could cause things to melt and lawsuits have become more frivolous on everything. Some lights that recommend you not to use rechargables have been said to work just fine with them. I have a conspiracy theory that since they came with *free* batteries putting the disclaimer encourages people to buy more batteries like the ones it came with


----------



## Mr Happy (Dec 22, 2008)

LightObsession said:


> The use of the lithium battery in the cheap light is to allow it to stay in the car in very cold weather and still function. Alkalines would be dead at 0 F.
> 
> I asked the question, because in the headlamp thread, it had been inferred that unregulated lights (Black Diamond Spot) don't handle the higher voltage of the lithiums very well, maybe this only applies to 3 AAA headlamps and not to 1AA hand lights.


I believe these particular 1AA lights are regulated, and so should be OK with the higher lithium voltage. They are cheap enough anyway that if something should go wrong there is not much lost.


----------



## bobo383 (Dec 23, 2008)

A couple weeks ago, the Beaumont Home Depot still had piles of these lights and I bought a few pair. After reading of the price drop (on this great site), I went out to get some more. There were none left on Saturday.

Bummer, they're kind of cool and definitely low-buck.


----------



## Tiff (Dec 23, 2008)

They had boxes of the Husky 1xAA lights and on sale for $2.97 per pkg! That's pretty cheap! So we bought a bunch. Then we went back and bought some more. They say about 1 in every 3 lights is defective. So we just opened them in Home Depot and returned all the ones that didn't work right then and there.
The light has a purplish tint, but ok for some uses like a nightlight. Of all teh ones we have they all have a purple tint.
Maybe they are Husky Golden Dragons?


----------



## Woods Walker (Dec 23, 2008)

I hate you all. Said I would not get any of these but for under 3 bucks got 2 sets. Of the first set one worked for a few clicks before the clicky went DOA. The other is good so far. Got the 2nd set for a stocking stuffer so don't know.


----------



## LightObsession (Dec 24, 2008)

For better odds of getting working lights, get the ones with a smaller gap between the head and body when looking them over in the packages in the store.

The lights with the larger gap between the head and body seem to be DOA, at least the only one I bought that was DOA had the larger gap and the head wouldn't screw down far enough.


----------



## Tiff (Dec 24, 2008)

Also check to make sure the LED is centered. We found a lot of them were not centered and those didn't work out so well either.


----------



## NotASolder (Dec 28, 2008)

Any hope for tail switch upgrades? Cosmetic upgrades? Everytime I click the switch on I feel I'm going to rip the rubber. Will any of those aftermarket greeg GID boots fit?

BTW, I just got mine last week and they were marked $5.97 in the flashlight aisle and $4.97 right next to the main entrance. I must have missed the $2.97 signs 

About twice as bright as my (former) EDC Inova X1 Mk III.

Must...go back... for more.


----------



## bobo383 (Jan 7, 2009)

Looks like the same light on ebay for $8 each - bummer. My Home Depot has been out of the cheap guys for a while. Wish I had bought more. They're perfect little lights for keychains, truck interior, kids, etc. 

http://cgi.ebay.com/1W-LED-Flashlig...3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Jan 7, 2009)

I still haven't figured out how to mod the circuit. I am thinking about instead putting in a resistor and a lithium ion AA I picked up and power a luxeon or cree. I have pretty much grown beyond 5mm based lights for most uses as luxeons are now as cheap as they were 2 years ago. I miss my L1P I lost a year ago these lights reminded me how nice it was.


----------



## ronald (Feb 3, 2009)

this cheap light gets more use than all my other lights. just enough light and tough too. my son's just got left in his pants pocket in the washing machine and STILL works!


----------



## Backpacker Light (Feb 5, 2009)

ronald said:


> this cheap light gets more use than all my other lights. just enough light and tough too. my son's just got left in his pants pocket in the washing machine and STILL works!


 
Great to hear it passed the washing machine test, which all of our true pocket EDC lights must endure.

12 pages and counting, this thread will continue forever.

I also wish I had purchased more of these lights. I got 3 pairs at the original $5 price, but HD credited me the difference when they went on sale for $3/pair a couple days later. 
I needed to return 2 defective lights (out of the 6) that were not worth keeping (the head would not tighten down enough to turn on). 

I was going to buy a bunch more at that price, but by then, they were all gone!!


----------



## danielo_d (Feb 5, 2009)

Backpacker Light said:


> ...
> 
> I was going to buy a bunch more at that price, but by then, they were all gone!!



Same here! I only got three pairs. First pack was normal price, but got the latter packs at the discounted price. 
Luckily I didn't have to make any returns. 
Gave three of the lights away... thinking they will always be stocked by HD. 

 Mad at myself for being so naive! [sp?]

Anyway, my 7 year-old daughter loves it! I took back my 2AA MiniMag that had the old NiteIze 3LED drop in. The Husky suits her much better. 





Backpacker Light said:


> ...
> 12 pages and counting, this thread will continue forever.
> ...


LOL! 

Danielo


----------



## Backpacker Light (Feb 6, 2009)

danielo_d said:


> Gave three of the lights away... thinking they will always be stocked by HD.


 
Same here. This was the perfect gift light for a non-flashaholic. Low cost (very low cost in this case-$1.50/each), LED bulb for long battery life, in a common AA battery form function, and needing only one AA at that, for those people who must scramble to find 3-4 working batteries in their entire household when the lights go out. 

Am I the only one who feels a little funny giving a $50 light to a person who might use it a half dozen times a year? I love to give flashlights out to all my friends/relatives (and they know it), but it's difficult to find a $5-$10 light that is not a worthless piece of crap.

Believe it or not, I live within a 20 minute drive of 6 different Home Depots. To this day, as I make my occasion walk-through of their flashlight aisle to review their current offerings, I still keep hoping to come across a leftover box of these great "Black Friday" lights. I would buy them all, and give them all away (except one to play with).


----------



## Radiophile (Apr 27, 2009)

I've been using one of these lights every night at work and I still smile each time I use it. I can't get over how well it works for what it cost, which is why I bought it in the first place. I needed a flashlight that wouldn't bother me if i lost it at work.

It's the brightest of the two packages that I opened, and it's just the perfect amount of light for what I need. I cleaned the threads, lubed them and the o-rings, put a new alkaline battery in it, and since then it's worked every time I clicked the switch.

Great throw, decent spill, $1.50 well spent.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Apr 27, 2009)

I tried modding the circuit to boost it to use a cree P4 and failed to get any more current out of it. They are decent lights for the price


----------



## C-Beam (Nov 28, 2009)

I bought 8 of them at the $2.97 price last year and gave 2 to a friend. We've been using them since then with no problems. I use a 14500 since it increases the output by about 30%.


----------



## Skibane (Nov 30, 2009)

This light makes a pretty decent host for a UV LED as well - No circuit modifications needed.


----------



## C-Beam (Nov 30, 2009)

You have the funniest avatars, Skibane. 

I bought an O-light T-series clip and it works PERFECTLY. Like it was made for this light. The part that clasps the barrel fits in the little grooves on the head. I clip in on my hat and have a $7.50 headlamp. Yeah, I scratched it getting it on. It's stiff!


----------



## bobo383 (Dec 2, 2009)

Wow, the clip does look it like belongs there! I actually like the scratch...


----------



## Hondo (Dec 3, 2009)

You will do better to snap those type of clips on from the side rather than try to slide them from the end. The only scratches will be in the groove. Same for removing them, put a small screwdriver in the top of the clip and jerk it straight away from the tube. I have gotten pretty good at it with the Gerber Infinity ones, which would probably work on this light too.


----------



## bobo383 (Dec 6, 2009)

Hey CBeam, I have one of these with a messed up switch but the head is scratch free. Send your address if you want it & I'll put it in the mail to ya.


----------



## C-Beam (Dec 7, 2009)

Hondo said:


> You will do better to snap those type of clips on from the side rather than try to slide them from the end. The only scratches will be in the groove. Same for removing them, put a small screwdriver in the top of the clip and jerk it straight away from the tube. I have gotten pretty good at it with the Gerber Infinity ones, which would probably work on this light too.



I thought about it, but I didn't want to risk bending my $5 clip. 

When I put it on bobo's head that he so generously offered, I'll file down the sharp point and use some lube.


----------



## Hondo (Dec 9, 2009)

Best of luck, should come out better that way.

But food for thought: If the ears of the clip yield when snapping it on, it is too weak to work properly as a clip. More importantly, that is the way they are installed by the manufacturers of the lights, so you can be sure it is designed to handle that much flex without yielding.


----------



## C-Beam (Dec 13, 2009)

Update on these lights - I found them being sold this year in a pack of 3 with 3 other, larger LED lights for $9.99. Even if you toss out the 3 large lights (which are an led cluster powered by 3xAAA in a holder), that's still $3.50 apiece. They are anodized red, blue, and black.

Also, battery station is running a special on the clips, $3 apiece.


----------



## Hondo (Dec 14, 2009)

I saw that package too. There are a couple of differenced from this light, though. They are not branded Husky, but they use the same cut-down 5mm LED/reflector combination. Also, they have a different body style, no flats and more knurling. Still looks like a good deal, even without a clearance price, especially if you can find a use for the 6-LED/3xAAA lights.


----------



## bobo383 (Dec 28, 2009)

Ah, crud... I got one of the OLight clips and the part that hugs the light is too wide, won't fit in the channel of the light. Now to file it down...


----------

