# Why the dislike for LED LENSER?



## rambo180 (May 8, 2012)

Just thought I'd throw this out there. LED LENSERS are quiet popular in Australia, along with Maglites. Convince me to buy a Klarus XT11 instead!!
_
I have some ideas, but just wondering why people don't like Lensers? Yes I know they're expensive and only run on alkalines. Is it because they have the zoom (zoom wastes light?)? Any other reasons?_


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## CTR (May 8, 2012)

I don't think it's a dislike of LENSERS, but its just the competition is miles ahead of them and you can get better torches for the price. They are well made, but bang for buck they don't stack up well.

I was asked by Lenser when they were in their infancy to become their UK distributor, but worked out the numbers and it wasn't really feasible. Quality of the lights are very good, good machining etc but as I say, technology wise they have a bit of catching up to do.


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## Kevinkw1 (May 8, 2012)

Definitely relatively expensive for what they are. I have a mt7, that goes for around $100 - $130 in aus. It was the first torch after my mag lights. I thought it was good, but then got got the disease and got a eagletac g25c2 which is about the same price. The difference is huge in terms of build quality and ui. I'm pretty sure the ano on the led lenser is not type 3, as it nicks easy. I quickly gave my led lenser to the wife as a hand me down! Shhhh, she thinks it's the best!


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## Viking (May 8, 2012)

CTR said:


> Quality of the lights are very good



Not my experience.
Led Lenser might look and feel like good Quality , but they really aren't , not in my experience anyway.


To judge whether a flashlight is good Quality or not , you have to use it outside your home.
For example as a worklight. I did ,and after about 3 weeks the light began to flicre.
In my experience very few brands are suitable as working lights , and Led Lenser is unfortunately not one of them.


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## eh4 (May 8, 2012)

I Don't Like LED LENSOR because the are sitting on the zooming led patent and there are much better lights out there that could otherwise have this feature. 
I don't understand why the zoom hasn't been licensed put in use with other makers.


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## Cataract (May 8, 2012)

I think -in some cases- on this side of the pond, they are still being associated with Coast who where their associates for a while and make (made?) lower quality lights. The other reason would be the price since they're made in Germany rather than China. They do make some lower quality lights -the small ones- and there could be a larger number of people who tried those rather than the expensive ones. I'm very satisfied with my M7R so far and it's been over a year now. I did have a few switch problems with my P3 that came back to normal after screwing the plastic switch retainer in. I won't complain since it cost 14$ and still works.


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## Fireclaw18 (May 8, 2012)

*LED Lensers tend to be overpriced for what you get. For instance, LED Lensers have*:
1. Many LED lensers are direct drive single mode lights with no regulation. This means they dim rapidly as the battery runs down.
2. The few regulated models tend to only have high-med-blinky modes... similar to what is found on many budget $10 lights and far inferior to the modes and UI found on high-end lights.
3. They have plastic optics and reflectors. Many other high-end lights have coated glass optics with metal reflectors.
4. Dated LEDs which produce far less light than the latest LEDs found in other lights. Here I suspect it may be a conscious decision on LED Lenser's part. Their main feature is the zoom which does better with older, but higher surface brightness, LEDs.
5. Type II anodizing which wears through rapidly and looks like crap after minimal use. Inferior to Type III hard anodize which is standard on other lights of similar price.
6. Switches that tend to wear out and break.
7. Does not tailstand.
8. Not waterproof (understandable, because making a zoom light waterproof causes issues with the zoom mechanism self-cycling due to vacuum pressure).
9. No support for li-ion batteries. A AA-sized LED Lenser only runs on AA.... it won't take 14500, etc. Not much of an issue for a typical user, but it is a big issue for flashlight enthusiasts found on these forums.

The only thing LED Lensers have that makes them stand out is the superior zoom mechanism. They hold the patents to it so this feature is unique. Without the zoom mechanism the rest of the light is really no better than a cheap budget light you can buy for 1/5 the price. 

The LED Lenser zoom mechanism is fairly good. On my LED Lenser, light output does not noticeably diminish zooming from spot to flood in a ceiling bounce test. Pretty impressive considering that on all the cheap clones using aspheric lenses light output dims dramatically when doing the same. However, despite the good zoom mechanism, the rest of the light just isn't good enough to overcome the price. You can buy much better and more functional high end lights without the zoom for the same price.

For the price of an LED Lenser you can buy a different brand of light, that is waterproof, looks better, has a much longer lasting finish, has 4x the light output, many more modes, a much better UI, and can throw nearly as far. Why would you want to buy a Lenser?


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## AFKAN (May 8, 2012)

There maybe far better lights out there now but at the time they were responsible for my flashlight fetish 

Still carry a V2 as an EDC along with my Scorpion


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## cccpull (May 8, 2012)

I like Led Lensers and find the quality good. That said, the new Coast lights seem to offer a nicer beam.
Coast was simply the USA distributor for Led Lenser. 
Led Lenser is a German Co., but the lights are made in China. So are the new Coast lights, for that matter.

If you like flood to throw lights(and I do), Led Lenser and Coast make some of the best readily available. As for price, like everything else, shop around.


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## Bigmac_79 (May 8, 2012)

My main dislike for Led Lenser is that they have a patent on the aspheric focusing mechanism, which means they can keep other companies from making similarly focusable lights and keep their own prices high. Don't get me wrong, I believe they are well within their rights to do this, and there is nothing wrong or even unordinary about it. I just selfishly don't like it


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## Ezeriel (May 8, 2012)

1: no regulation :duh2:
2: poor quality
3: not water proof
4: and the price is how much???


pfft..!


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## Fireclaw18 (May 8, 2012)

rambo180 said:


> _...__
> I have some ideas, but just wondering why people don't like Lensers? Yes I know they're expensive and only run on alkalines. Is it because they have the zoom (zoom wastes light?)? Any other reasons?_



Actually the zoom is the only thing on an LED Lenser that makes the light stand out. Apart from the zoom, LED Lensers have the features of a typical $10 budget light. The problem is the zoom alone is just not enough to justify paying 4x, 5x or even 10x the price of a budget light.


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## Viking (May 8, 2012)

Cataract said:


> They do make some lower quality lights -the small ones- and there could be a larger number of people who tried those rather than the *expensive ones*.



Just for the record. Mine was a V2 Triplex , certainly not a cheap flashligt. 
In Denmark it cost 70 dollars.



Fireclaw18 said:


> 6. Switches that tend to wear out and break.



I had swich issues as well , forgot to mention that in my first post


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## dudemar (May 8, 2012)

Cataract said:


> The other reason would be the price since they're made in Germany rather than China.



Made in China, designed in Germany and Leatherman is the parent company based in Portland, OR. They make decent lights. I plan on visiting the retail store when I move up there next year.


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## Fireclaw18 (May 8, 2012)

Cataract said:


> ...They do make some lower quality lights -the small ones- and there could be a larger number of people who tried those rather than the expensive ones...



My only current Lenser is a relatively small one. It's a AA-sized P5, with the flood to throw. Still not a cheap light as it cost around $50. I also have several older LED Lensers (that really impressed me at the time because my prior flashlight experience with with Maglites and Inovas).

For the features my P5 does have the light disappoints: single mode with no regulation, Type II anodize that looks great the day you buy the light but wears quickly, relatively dim light output, can't run on li-ion cells, and can't tailstand. Bigger and dimmer with less throw than a Sipik 68 that costs 1/5 as much. The Lenser does not impress.


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## Tuikku (May 8, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> 6. Switches that tend to wear out and break.



My first light ever to break a clicky and believe me, I have some REALLY cheapy ones also...


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## välineurheilija (May 8, 2012)

I have the hokus fokus and the p2. I used to have the v2 i remember it having a led called callium or something like that  i would not buy another led lenser because of the price and as i checked out the new double lense models (cant remember the model numbers) but they were quite crappy in terms of finish on the lights


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## MattSPL (May 8, 2012)

I have an LED Lenser P7.

I've used it as a work light as an electrician for about 2 years. And it has seen lots of bad falls, some in excess of 9ft.
The battery holder broke off the tail cap after a short time, but the light still worked perfectly until a month or 2 ago when the high and low settings became a bit hit and miss. Sometimes it would select high on every click, rather than high or low.
It has also seen large amounts of dust and dirt.

I had an Inova X5(which i lost), and a T2 as work lights also. They feel much better built and withstood the same abuse.


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## ev13wt (May 8, 2012)

I don't like the name. Even the name sunwayman is better than led lenser, and I think that is the worst name ever. But since its a chinese brand its kinda cute, so excusable.

The preceeding comment should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Kevinkw1 (May 8, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> *LED Lensers tend to be overpriced for what you get. For instance, LED Lensers have*:
> 1. Many LED lensers are direct drive single mode lights with no regulation. This means they dim rapidly as the battery runs down.
> 2. The few regulated models tend to only have high-med-blinky modes... similar to what is found on many budget $10 lights and far inferior to the modes and UI found on high-end lights.
> 3. They have plastic optics and reflectors. Many other high-end lights have coated glass optics with metal reflectors.
> ...



Nicely summarised Fireclaw! Ya, admit that the zoom is kinda cool, its like having an inbuilt diffuser. You would think they would license it out to make some extra cash, but maybe they asking too much?


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## Jash (May 8, 2012)

I've had two Led Lensers. After the flood/throw novelty wore off I gave both of them away, nuff said.


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## TadpolePilot (May 8, 2012)

Zoom feature is on a $17.00 light out of China that is powered by AAA, 18650 and the best for me 26650.


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## baterija (May 8, 2012)

Kevinkw1 said:


> Nicely summarised Fireclaw! Ya, admit that the zoom is kinda cool, its like having an inbuilt diffuser. You would think they would license it out to make some extra cash, but maybe they asking too much?



Given the long list of other weaknesses, I'm actually not surprised they don't license it. It's their sole competitive advantage. It's might be ugly for them when the patent protection expires.


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## Fireclaw18 (May 8, 2012)

On my cheap budget zoom lights like the Sipik 68 or Romisen RC29 the optic is a simple aspheric lens and nothing else. On my LED Lenser P5 it is a rather complicated engineered plastic lens that actually wraps completely around the emitter. When the simple aspheric lights are zoomed from flood to spot, half the lumens are lost inside the bezel resulting in a very dramatic decrease in overall output immediately noticeable in a ceiling bounce test. Amazingly, when I try the same test with my Lenser P5 there appears to be no noticeable reduction in output regardless of whether the lens is in flood or spot mode. The engineered optic seems to be quite a bit more efficient than a plain aspheric lens.

Still, even with the impressive zoom lens setup, Lensers have far too many disadvantages and are lacking too many features to stand up to other flashlights in the same price range. Informed flashlight owners tend to avoid LED Lensers with good reason.


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## Kevinkw1 (May 8, 2012)

baterija said:


> Given the long list of other weaknesses, I'm actually not surprised they don't license it. It's their sole competitive advantage. It's might be ugly for them when the patent protection expires.



The funny thing is that they have such market penetration to the general public but! They are in so many "retail" stores like the "king of knives" and other "tobacco" stores in Australa. They must offer some awesome incentives to make these places become their dealers.


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## dc38 (May 8, 2012)

Well, I'm still in the process of planning on modding my P7 lenser...Lemme tell you, the wiring is a nightmare. (not really, but the internals of the light are pretty much garbage.) Until I can get a new driver and a way to make the current switch work with it and my xml to fit into the pill, I don't really touch this light anymore. The only real thing that sells this light was mentioned above, the "patented focus" lens. Aside from that...half the pill is freaking plastic! :thumbsdow On top of that, all the other faults were mentioned above. However, If i can fit just the right emitter in there, this host may have the potential to be ranked among the top throw kings  (an xml may be too large, so maybe an r5 or r2 will have to do )


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## utlgoa (May 8, 2012)

I own an Olight SR90, Fenix TK35, HID Onboard, Nitecore TM-11 and a Coast HP17, and none of them comes close to the LedLenser X21.


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## somnambulated (May 9, 2012)

Kevinkw1 said:


> The funny thing is that they have such market penetration to the general public but! They are in so many "retail" stores like the "king of knives" and other "tobacco" stores in Australa. They must offer some awesome incentives to make these places become their dealers.



Just to echo this, Tobacco stores here in the States carry junk knives and lights. Not sure if it's the same overseas, but remember MSRP doesn't always have much to do with what the retailer paid for the item. 

Via iPhone & Tapatalk


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## Jash (May 9, 2012)

utlgoa said:


> I own an Olight SR90, Fenix TK35, HID Onboard, Nitecore TM-11 and a Coast HP17, and none of them comes close to the LedLenser X21.



I've seen both the SR90 and X21 in action. Your SR90 must be stuck on low.


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## somnambulated (May 9, 2012)

Jash said:


> I've seen both the SR90 and X21 in action. Your SR90 must be stuck on low.



Also note that he's comparing $90 flashlights to the $300 Lenser...


Via iPhone & Tapatalk


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## eh4 (May 9, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> Actually the zoom is the only thing on an LED Lenser that makes the light stand out. Apart from the zoom, LED Lensers have the features of a typical $10 budget light. The problem is the zoom alone is just not enough to justify paying 4x, 5x or even 10x the price of a budget light.



Exactly, they are sitting on their laurels and keeping other makers from using a very common sense feature. BS!!!


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## rambo180 (May 9, 2012)

Awesome replies. Thankyou to everyone, I have learnt a lot about quality and specs, and most importantly learnt what NOT to buy! I will no longer wonder why none of the other high-end manufacturers don't sell zoom flashlights.


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## JulianP (May 9, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> The LED Lenser zoom mechanism is fairly good. On my LED Lenser, light output does not noticeably diminish zooming from spot to flood in a ceiling bounce test.


I don't have a Led Lenser, but even with my rudimentary understanding of optics this puzzles me. Surely if you spread the same lumens out to a wider area, the beam must get a bit dimmer. What am I missing?


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## Bigmac_79 (May 9, 2012)

JulianP said:


> I don't have a Led Lenser, but even with my rudimentary understanding of optics this puzzles me. Surely if you spread the same lumens out to a wider area, the beam must get a bit dimmer. What am I missing?



The idea behind a ceiling bounce test is that the light is spread over the whole room, so you can make a visual comparison of the the overall amount of light coming out the front. You're correct that when moving from spot to flood, the light is spread out over a larger area and each place hit by the light will receive less light than it did while being hit with the spot. I believe Fireclaw18's point was that when shining the light on the ceiling, the ambient brightness in the room didn't change much when switching between spot and flood. This would mean that the focusing system is equally efficient in both positions, letting the same amount of light out the front (instead of more getting caught inside the head in one position).

I have tested my Led Lenser P7 in my home made light box, and the output graphs were almost identical on spot and flood, so I'd agree with Fireclaw18's observation that the overall light coming out the front is consistant in both spot and flood.


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## rambo180 (May 9, 2012)

cccpull said:


> Not really, you learned about biases.



True. I've now developed a bias towards other flashlights. I have a cheapie (but still bright) 3xAA with zoom, certainly part of the charm of zoom is pure novelty in my opinion.


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## cccpull (May 9, 2012)

rambo180 said:


> True. I've now developed a bias towards other flashlights. I have a cheapie (but still bright) 3xAA with zoom, certainly part of the charm of zoom is pure novelty in my opinion.



It has it's use, try working close-up and see how much easier it is to focus on your work when in flood mode.

Nothing wrong with cheapie's. I have some that make the me think twice about the money spent on the so called better quality/hyped-up stuff.

Enjoy the hobby.


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## utlgoa (May 9, 2012)

Jash said:


> I've seen both the SR90 and X21 in action. Your SR90 must be stuck on low.



I wasn't refering to lumen output.

Watch this video and be reminded that Led Lenser is more than just an LED and a Orange Peel Reflector.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRGoxOpAuns


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## yliu (May 9, 2012)

In europe they seem to be just as popular if not, even more popular than Maglites.

I don't like them mostly because of their poor value. You can get lights with better build quality, more light output for the same money. Here, the Led Lenser M7 costs just a little less than a Olight M31! For the price of the M7 I can buy a Olight M20X, or a Fenix TK21 etc.

For the price of the X21, you can get a Fenix TK70 and still have enough to get a LD20. Just add a little bit more money, you get the Olight X6 Marauder w/ 5000 lumens.
If Led Lenser had just upgraded the chip from the XRE to an XML, it would make their light more appealing.

I also had a bad experience with my P7, it was accidentally dropped from roughly 1m height to concrete, and it stopped working. I've dropped my LD20 quite a few times from both higher and lower heights onto hard surfaces and it still works.

Really the only selling point of Led Lenser would be the focusing system, which does not appeal to everyone. Although I find the complete flood beam to be useful indoors and for close range tasks, I still tend to gravitate towards the traditional beam profile.

Although some of their new products such as the P3 AFS P.


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## Fireclaw18 (May 9, 2012)

JulianP said:


> I don't have a Led Lenser, but even with my rudimentary understanding of optics this puzzles me. Surely if you spread the same lumens out to a wider area, the beam must get a bit dimmer. What am I missing?



There are two measures of light output: "lux", which is the intensity of the beam... how far the light can throw, and "lumens", which is the total amount of light coming out of the light. A light with a highly focused beam but no spill might have high lux and low lumens. Conversely a floodlight with no spot might have very high lumens but low lux.

The goal of a ceiling bounce test is to try to get a rough comparison of the lumens coming out of the light. Inside a dark room, while standing, hold the light in hand and point it at the ceiling. Then look at an object on the floor and try to measure its brightness (do not look at the spot on the ceiling). Doing this I cycled the zoom mechanism back and forth on my P5 while looking at the floor and saw no noticeable dimming suggesting that light output (lumens) was about the same in both modes.... much different from the budget clones which use a simple aspheric and see dramatic dimming when in spot mode.


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## kaichu dento (May 9, 2012)

The many times I've looked at them in the store displays and the few that I've owned have earned my dislike for the tints used and the beam patterns.

I have lots of lights, too many actually, and no need for any more of these.


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## nbp (May 9, 2012)

easilyled said:


> I can't see anything biased about the very reasoned reply that Fireclaw gave in post #7



Indeed. This has been one of the most objective, civilized discussions on the Lensers I have seen in a long time. I have found it an excellent read, and when the question pops up about Lensers in the future (and it WILL), I will likely link this thread. The points stated, particularly in that post by Fireclaw, were spot on and well explained.


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## greenlight (May 9, 2012)

I have the BMW lenser single AAA clickie light which I bought here from a group buy: 



It doesn't have a lanyard attachment, but other than that it is a great little light with a very useful and tight spot beam and a sensitive forward clickie that is comfortable to use. 

What's not to love about this flashlight?


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## greenlight (May 9, 2012)

.....


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## my#1hobby (May 9, 2012)

I have an LED Lenser P7 that I got on Amazon for $35 and I think it's a great little light, It packs a lot of power for a 4x AAA light. I use eneloops in it and it seems to hold its brightness for a long time, but on alkalines it does drop in brightness pretty quick. It's just as bright as my Stinger 180 lumen C4 LED too.


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## easilyled (May 9, 2012)

greenlight said:


> I have the BMW lenser single AAA clickie light which I bought here from a group buy:
> It doesn't have a lanyard attachment, but other than that it is a great little light with a very useful and tight spot beam and a sensitive forward clickie that is comfortable to use.
> 
> What's not to love about this flashlight?



Just about everything that Fireclaw18 pointed out in post #7.

From your picture it doesn't appear to be able to be attached to a keychain and its not tailstanding. 
Its probably not waterproof, not regulated, not HAIII and probably only has a plastic optic or lens.

However apart from that, I'm sure its absolutely outstanding.


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## utlgoa (May 9, 2012)

Led Lenser will always be " The eight hundred pound gorilla in the room"


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## Kilted (May 10, 2012)

Check out;
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/technologie_index.php?id=tec_design

Testing:
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/pruefverfahren.php?id=quali_pruef

Candela, lumen, lux;
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/candela.php?id=led_candela

They are regulated just not the way you expect
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/smart.php?id=smart

Regulation Demo1
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/slt_demo.php

Regulation Demo2
http://www.zweibrueder.com/ENG/technologie/m7_demo.php

As for those who complain about the lack of regulation, seems you got a short memory, many quality lights of the past were direct drive, I have a Barbolight dive light that is direct drive.


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## Fireclaw18 (May 10, 2012)

Kilted said:


> ...
> 
> 
> As for those who complain about the lack of regulation, seems you got a short memory, many quality lights of the past were direct drive, I have a Barbolight dive light that is direct drive.



Key words: "_of the past_". 

Nowadays, if I'm going to spend $50 or more on a light I expect it to have regulation and a variety of modes. After having experienced lights with good regulation and awesome UIs such as Zebralight and Jetbeam or even Spark and Thrunite, going back to a light with one mode and no regulation is unacceptable. Furthermore, when I buy a quality light I expect it to have a great UI that allows me to easily access the modes I want. "High --> med --> blinky" might be expected for a $10 budget light, but is simply unacceptable on a light costing $50 or $100.

The only kind of light I'd consider running unregulated would be something going all out for max power like an Elektrolumens Big Bruiser. LED Lensers with their old emitters, plastic pills, and low amp draws definitely don't fall into that category.


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## enomosiki (May 10, 2012)

Kilted said:


> As for those who complain about the lack of regulation, seems you got a short memory, many quality lights of the past were direct drive, I have a Barbolight dive light that is direct drive.



"_Many quality lights of the past were direct drive"_ because sufficient technology did not exist back then.

Twenty to thirty years ago, when direct-drive incandescent flashlights were dominant, necessary electronics that could fit inside a flashlight did not exist. Nowadays, we have such things that are smaller than a coin and dirt cheap.

The point here is that, for what LED Lenser prices its products, they do not deliver comparable features or performance when pitted against other flashlights that can be found for cheaper.

Every time I come upon the flashlight section in any hardware stores and spot LED Lenser products, I can't help but to shake my head at the price tag.


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## rambo180 (May 10, 2012)

nbp said:


> Indeed. This has been one of the most objective, civilized discussions on the Lensers I have seen in a long time. I have found it an excellent read



+1 Interesting, informative and enjoyable.


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## jupello (May 10, 2012)

Actually the discussion IS pretty biased. 
-When they say that most Led Lensers have have no regulation, they are talking about the OLD models.
-When they say that all the regulated Led Lensers have just high-med-blinky modes similar to the DX cheapies, they are lieing.
-Then they compare the optic material to reflector and lens materials.. like comparing apples to oranges.
-No support for Lithium-ion batteries? That's a lie too. Just choose a Led Lenser model that do support them, if that's what you want. 
..and so on and so on.. I don't know why I even bother replying to these anymore..


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## Fireclaw18 (May 10, 2012)

jupello said:


> Actually the discussion IS pretty biased.
> -When they say that most Led Lensers have have no regulation, they are talking about the OLD models.
> -When they say that all the regulated Led Lensers have just high-med-blinky modes similar to the DX cheapies, they are lieing.
> -Then they compare the optic material to reflector and lens materials.. like comparing apples to oranges.
> ...



*Re: lack of regulation*:
I just checked on the LED Lenser website for their list of current models. I assumed that all lights with single modes had no regulation and all lights with multiple brightness have regulation. I counted 9 regulated models and 8 unregulated models. They also have 6 current keychain lights (none of which are regulated) and 6 current large heavy duty lights (all of which appear to be regulated). Result is about an even split, with just very slightly more regulated lights.

My own experience is with the LED Lenser P5, which is listed on their website as one of their current models. Despite costing over $50, it has just one mode and no regulation. The P5's lack of key features make it look very overpriced when I compare it to other high-end lights.

I know that some of the earlier (from a year or two ago) LED Lensers with regulation just had high-med-blinky. I don't have an up-to-date regulated model so can't confirm whether they have improved on that. However, I can confirm that their lights are distinctly lacking in some modes desired on EDC lights. They don't have a low mode or moonlight mode. On some models the lowest they go is 30 lumens. This seems far inferior to something like a Jetbeam RRT-01 that can go from nothing to 550+ lumens and anything in between.

*Re: Plastic reflector material*:
Plastic is inferior for some uses because it's softer than glass and more likely to scratch. It also can be less efficient than high quality coated glass in transmitting light. On the other hand, LED Lenser optics are generally of excellent quality due to their unique zooming mechanism and carefully engineered optics. Frankly, if I could get an LED Lenser's zooming optics as part of a Jetbeam or Zebralight I'd jump on it and would be perfectly happy with the plastic optics.

*Re: Support for lithium-ion batteries*: For my EDC light, I want a pocket rocket that runs on 16340 or 14500 and gets substantially brighter performance on them than on alkaline cells. LED Lenser makes ZERO models that do this. When I put a 14500 in my Sunwayman I get 3x the light output as on regular AA. Try the same in an LED Lenser and the light won't run at all.

The only LED Lenser models that support li-ion batteries are their line of rechargeable lights that have an "r" at the end of their model numbers. These lights give the same light output as their non-rechargeable versions running on alkalines. They run longer... not brighter. This is unacceptable to me. Why should I settle for 100 lumens or 150 lumens with an LED Lenser when I can get 550 lumens from a smaller and more compact Jetbeam that has better controls?


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## LEDninja (May 10, 2012)

The LED Lenser is a German company. CPF is an American website.

LED Lenser have terrible distribution in North America. Used to be sold through Coast Cutlery. "Would you like a flashlight with your knife and fork set sir/madam? Just in case there is a power failure while you dine." They are doing their own distribution now but they are not readily available - at least not all models.

Their early models use weird batteries. Meaning very expensive disposable flashlights when people can not find replacement batteries.

Their early models are not waterproof.

Their specs are bad especially for runtime. Worse than DX or fleabay on that front.

They do not have regulation circuits. They get dimmer and dimmer and dimmer. Their newer models that have regulation circuits are not sold in North America.

Once a company got a bad reputation it takes a long time to convince people they have changed their ways.


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## Mar (May 11, 2012)

I dislike them so much that I had two which I give as a gift. Now I need to order another for myself and you can get them for a decent price.


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## [email protected] (May 11, 2012)

double post


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## [email protected] (May 11, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> No support for li-ion batteries. A AA-sized LED Lenser only runs on AA.... it won't take 14500, etc. Not much of an issue for a typical user, but it is a big issue for flashlight enthusiasts found on these forums.



What about the *P5R*? it uses a 14500 Li-Ion cell :thumbsup:

I'd own an LED Lenser if the opportunity arose but I'm not fond of many of their battery configurations and would definitely have to modify at least some small aspect of the light to remedy this...





Fireclaw18 said:


> Key words: "_of the past_".
> 
> Nowadays, if I'm going to spend $50 or more on a light I expect it to have regulation and a variety of modes. After having experienced lights with good regulation and awesome UIs such as Zebralight and Jetbeam or even Spark and Thrunite, going back to a light with one mode and no regulation is unacceptable.



Some people still approve of such a simplistic design, I believe it's called the "KISS principle" the more technology (and features) packed into a device the more opportunity for something to go drastically wrong causing a malfunction


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## Fireclaw18 (May 11, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> What about the *P5R*? it uses a 14500 Li-Ion cell :thumbsup:



Output is still far too low: 200 lumens on a 14500? Yuck! That's what I expect to see on a regular AA. I'm spoiled by XP-G and XM-L lights and expect to see 450+ lumens when I put in a 14500.



> Some people still approve of such a simplistic design, I believe it's called the "KISS principle" the more technology (and features) packed into a device the more opportunity for something to go drastically wrong causing a malfunction



And yet despite having extremely simple construction, often with just one mode and no regulation, LED Lensers are not known for their durability. I've had a switch break in a lenser. Other people in this thread have had Lenser's break: either their switches or the light ceasing to function when dropped a short distance. And of course, anyone who has tried EDCing an LED Lenser for even a short time knows how awful the Type II anodize looks after a couple months in the pocket. EDC a Fenix for 6 months and it looks brand new. EDC a Lenser for the same period of time and it looks like its been through a war. For the price they charge LED Lenser should upgrade to Type III hard anodize.


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## TwitchALot (May 11, 2012)

Don't forget that lack of regulation is a much bigger issue here. Running on direct drive means that on NiMH, Lensers will run dim because the voltage isn't there. On Lithium (AA), they're overdriving the LED and reducing its lifespan by putting too much voltage. Li-Ion will blow it. Essentially, their non-regulated models are BEST suited for Alkalines, which are BEST suited for low current applications - which their lights are not.

But even so, with a beam profile like the Coast lights I've seen, I've be more tempted to throw them at the wall until they break. But then, I'm a certified flashaholic.


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## Blitzwing (May 11, 2012)

They are the "great" light that folks who don't know about flashlights buy.... Often well overpriced in stores here in Australia, too.


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## bkumanski (May 11, 2012)

TwitchALot said:


> Don't forget that lack of regulation is a much bigger issue here. Running on direct drive means that on NiMH, Lensers will run dim because the voltage isn't there. On Lithium (AA), they're overdriving the LED and reducing its lifespan by putting too much voltage. Li-Ion will blow it. Essentially, their non-regulated models are BEST suited for Alkalines, which are BEST suited for low current applications - which their lights are not.
> 
> But even so, with a beam profile like the Coast lights I've seen, I've be more tempted to throw them at the wall until they break. But then, I'm a certified flashaholic.



Correct me if I am mistaken, but don't NiMh batteries run higher voltage under load than alkalines? My experience with these DD 3 and 4 cell lights has been much brighter performance with NiMh than alkalines because of the voltage sag of alkalines. In addition, regulation isn't really needed with this battery type as the battery itself is quasi regulated. I like DD lights for their simplicity, but I understand the cost issue. In theory, DD lights should be less expensive, not more.


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## my#1hobby (May 11, 2012)

TwitchALot said:


> Don't forget that lack of regulation is a much bigger issue here. Running on direct drive means that on NiMH, Lensers will run dim because the voltage isn't there. On Lithium (AA), they're overdriving the LED and reducing its lifespan by putting too much voltage. Li-Ion will blow it. Essentially, their non-regulated models are BEST suited for Alkalines, which are BEST suited for low current applications - which their lights are not.


This isn't true, my P7 runs much better on eneloops and has better output vs alkalines. On alkalines, the output drops quicker.


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## Fireclaw18 (May 11, 2012)

jupello said:


> -When they say that all the regulated Led Lensers have just high-med-blinky modes similar to the DX cheapies, they are lieing.



Having just reviewed the LED Lenser website I see that they do have some models that seem to have more modes than just high-med-blinky (though even these "advanced" models don't have low or moonlight). These are the modes with their "advanced" UI. Unfortunately, the only models with that UI are their lines of "full-sized" and "heavy duty" lights. They don't make a single EDC sized pocket carry light (ie 14500 or 16340 size) that has more than high-med-blinky.

It's too bad. I'd be tempted to buy an LED Lenser M1 (their only CR123 light) if it could use 16340, had moonlight mode, had at least an XPG or higher emitter, and had type III anodize.


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## TwitchALot (May 11, 2012)

my#1hobby said:


> This isn't true, my P7 runs much better on eneloops and has better output vs alkalines. On alkalines, the output drops quicker.



Well, there is obviously a point where alkalines can't maintain the voltage compared to an Eneloop. But a fresh alkaline can provide sufficient voltage and higher voltage than an Eneloop. Of course, the Alkalines rapidly lose voltage at higher current, but this really depends on the mode you're using and battery state. But yes, at high current, alkalines will lose output faster. At lower currents, they will outperform Eneloops.

"Correct me if I am mistaken, but don't NiMh batteries run higher voltage under load than alkalines? My experience with these DD 3 and 4 cell lights has been much brighter performance with NiMh than alkalines because of the voltage sag of alkalines. In addition, regulation isn't really needed with this battery type as the battery itself is quasi regulated. I like DD lights for their simplicity, but I understand the cost issue. In theory, DD lights should be less expensive, not more."

It depends on the load. At higher currents, yes, but for a short time the Alkaline will outperform the Eneloop. At lower currents Alkalines have the edge. But don't forget runtime.


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## Dr. Strangelove (May 11, 2012)

I don't really have any "dislike" for them, just indifference. They don't seem to offer anything that excites me. However, I was looking for a headlamp for the emergency kit in my car and I was able to get an H7 at a good price. I agree with most of the reviews I've read on CPF listing its strengths and weaknesses, and it will never replace my SureFire Saint, but I think it's more than adequate for its intended purpose.

(I should also mention that it's a back-up to my other car lights which are a SureFire Fury and Fenix E21, plus my 2 or 3 EDC lights.)


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## Mooreshire (May 11, 2012)

At $75 from Amazon with free shipping I'm actually kind of interested in the H14. Anyone have any experience with it in a real life situation? Seems to me to be one of very few headlamps to offer 0-100% dimming, which I personally like quite a bit.


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## davyro (May 12, 2012)

I own a T7 & a M14 but since i became a member of CPF & started to learn a little bit about lights i've not looked at another Lenser.That says everything for me.


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## mcnair55 (May 13, 2012)

davyro said:


> I own a T7 & a M14 but since i became a member of CPF & started to learn a little bit about lights i've not looked at another Lenser.That says everything for me.



You were there perfect punter because they are miles ahead of the competition with slick marketing and top quality display stands.They shift a load of product through the safety/engineers merchant channels.


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2012)

davyro said:


> I own a T7 & a M14 but since i became a member of CPF & started to learn a little bit about lights i've not looked at another Lenser.That says everything for me.




And yet despite being a member of the CPF community long enough to be fully aware of the short commings of their product I'm strangely drawn to the T7 as a mod/host/project base 


Each to their own I guess...


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## Outdoorsman5 (May 15, 2012)

Mooreshire said:


> At $75 from Amazon with free shipping I'm actually kind of interested in the H14. Anyone have any experience with it in a real life situation? Seems to me to be one of very few headlamps to offer 0-100% dimming, which I personally like quite a bit.



I used an LED Lenser H7 for a while, but ended up giving it to my son. I bought it as a running light, but found it be way too bulky. Also, the light was nice & bright at first, but since it was not regulated it got more & more dim as time past....unacceptable. Also, the tilt mechanism (adjusts the light up & down) was too flimsy (and is a common complaint with this light). It broke with very little use, and luckily we were able to exchange it for another one at Lowes. Still, I never much liked the light because it was big, bulky, & uncomfortable to wear. After I gave it to my son he used it mostly for reading at night, and then began to complain that it was not comfortable. It now sits in a drawer. I gave him one of my floody Zebralight headlamps, and he loves it. I love my Zebralights way more than the Lensers. The ZL's are smaller, lighter, brighter, waterproof, run on a single cell, and have regulated output which means the light doesn't dim at all until the batteries are close to dead then they step down in brightness. 

The H14 you are considering is even larger & heavier than the H7, so my bet is that it is even less comfortable. One argument against the Zebralight is that it's not zoomable. BUT, if you put an H51 on one side of the head band and a floody H502 on the back then you'd still have a smaller & lighter set up with both flood & spot. Just rotate the headband around to switch between the two. This is a huge improvement over the H7 or H14; however, it'd be more expensive. I did this on a couple of camping trips with my H51w and H501w, and liked it. But to tell you the truth I now prefer just having a flood light on my head, and a throwy light in my pocket. It's so small & lightweight that you almost don't even notice it's on your head.

Led Lensers are what got me interested in flashlights again, so I'm glad they exist. Since I've found better quality I won't buy another one.


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## david57strat (Jul 28, 2012)

baterija said:


> Given the long list of other weaknesses, I'm actually not surprised they don't license it. It's their sole competitive advantage. It's might be ugly for them when the patent protection expires.



Agreed. I wonder when that patent protection (for the focusing technology) will expire; because it'd sure be nice to see this feature incorporated into other makers' lights. 

The focusing feature, the ability to use readily available batteries (in a pinch), and the fact that I was able to get a really good price for it, were the main draws for me, for this light (I have the P7). 

Until another company comes out with the focusing feature that works this well, or better, I'll still entertain buying more of their lights, but being very careful with how I treat them; but then, I pretty much baby all of my lights (But none of them are shelf queens. They get used), so this wouldn't be much of a an adjustment.

Fortunately, for all of us, we have thousands of makes and models to choose from; but I have yet to see one that does everything. If we could get the focusing abilities of the LED Lenser, with the compactness of (for instance) an Eagletac D series light, in a type 3 anodized body, the output of a Fenix TK70, and SOMEHOW fully waterproofed, that'd be nice. Tall order, huh? You never know. Just ten or fifteen years ago, probably no one would have believed that we'd have pocketable 500 plus lumen lights available to us, let alone at an affordable price point. For the longest time, Maglite was it. They had no competition to speak of.

Anything is possible. Just give it enough time, and it'll probably become available. In the meantime, we keep collecting our toys, each one of them, having it's own unique features. That's half the fun of being a flashaholic, anyway, right?


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## lwknight (Jul 28, 2012)

> I used an LED Lenser H7 for a while, but ended up giving it to my son. I bought it as a running light, but found it be way too bulky. Also, the light was nice & bright at first, but since it was not regulated it got more & more dim as time past....unacceptable. Also, the tilt mechanism (adjusts the light up & down) was too flimsy (and is a common complaint with this light). It broke with very little use, and luckily we were able to exchange it for another one at Lowes.



I have had the H7 mounted on my hardhat for a year now and I use it almost daily. Battery pack in back keeps it from being front heavy. Batteries are free where I work so I burn then every chance I get. Still working like new.
And yes it has been thoroughly abused on my hardhat in the nuke power plant.

This is the light that got me researching led flashlights and WOW I was amazed at how far the technology had advanced.
Now I want one of everything and 2 of some.


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## andurilgc (Jul 29, 2012)

rambo180 said:


> Just thought I'd throw this out there. LED LENSERS are quiet popular in Australia, along with Maglites.



I would say those brands just have better local distribution channels than their competitors in Oz. Consumer awareness and times change...


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## 1c3d0g (Jul 29, 2012)

Poor quality, for one. My friend has a led lenser, and once he saw how dim his light really was compared to similar-priced ones, he realized he got an overpriced toy. The price vs lumens ratio alone doesn't make sense, let's not even talk about the other shortcomings.


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## rambo180 (Jul 29, 2012)

1c3d0g said:


> Poor quality, for one. My friend has a led lenser, and once he saw how dim his light really was compared to similar-priced ones, he realized he got an overpriced toy. The price vs lumens ratio alone doesn't make sense, let's not even talk about the other shortcomings.



Despite everyone's feedback, mostly not very positive, *I'm actually considering buying one*!!
LENSER P7. 4xAAA, 200lumens. 

BUT, the *shelf price is $149.95, I'm paying around $35*. So I reckon thats ok. Especially if I'm aware of it's shortfalls. The huge markup on cost/sale price is definatley evident.



> I would say those brands just have better local distribution channels than their competitors in Oz. Consumer awareness and times change...



Yes. I agree. In my experience, the general public in Oz go to get their tactical style lights from King of Knives and camping stores. I have only ever seen them stock Mag, Lenser and Inova. Lenser has a professional display window with an impressive colour scheme and shiny flashlights.


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## moozooh (Jul 29, 2012)

rambo180 said:


> Despite everyone's feedback, mostly not very positive, *I'm actually considering buying one*!!
> LENSER P7. 4xAAA, 200lumens.
> 
> BUT, the *shelf price is $149.95, I'm paying around $35*. So I reckon thats ok. Especially if I'm aware of it's shortfalls. The huge markup on cost/sale price is definatley evident.


 You can get a ThruNite T21, or a JetBeam BC10, or a Balder SE-1 XM-L, or maybe even a second-hand ZebraLight SC51 for essentially the same price (35 to 40 USD). They're all much smaller, lighter, brighter, waterproof, and run regulated. Even if you get something cheaper than it usually is, it may still be a bad purchase. 4xAAA for something a single AA or a CR123 can do these days is ridiculous.


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## mikekoz (Jul 29, 2012)

I bought a Coast H7 a few weekends ago from Lowes. Have been eying it for some time, and finally decided to buy it. Figured I could always return if it stunk!! I own several other LED Lenser/Coast/Eddie Bauer lights (All the same thing!), and some I did not like, not because they were poor quality, but they used odd batteries. I have a few that use 3 N cells, and I have no clue why I bought those!! I also have some that use one or 2 AA and these I like. I did not pay more than 20-25.00 for any of them, so I would say those were not overpriced. Now back to the HP7! I was pleasantly surprised at this light! First of all, the finish on it is top rate. It was rated as 251 lumens on high, and 58 on low, and I believe this to be accurate. The focusing mechanism on this light is unparalled. This is the only light I have ever purchased that does this correctly. Push the head out, and it has a beam pattern just like a flashlight with a standard reflector, pull it back, and it lights up an entire room! No moonbeam or spot on the wall when you want some throw. It is not regulated, but I am using 4 AAA Nimh cells in it, which will give me a constant brightness for an hour or so I would guess. It is also possible that a non-regulated light may have its uses. If it runs for the 5 hours 45 minutes it claims, that would be great in some situations, even if the brightness is not constant. If it was regulated, it may run for 1-2 hours at full brightness , then just taper off, maybe not giving you as much light. If you were caving, just a little bit of light would be all you need to find your way. I paid $50.00 for this light, and while I think it may be about $10.00 overpriced, I still do not think it was a bad deal. I do not agree with some folks here that say the $10.00 cheapie lights or DX lights are better quality. I think LED Lenser/Coast lights are better quality than your standard Energizer and Rayovac lights, but not quite as good as say, Inova. I do agree that some are overpriced. I looked up that LX1, and while it seems like a nice light, I would not pay anywhere near $300.00 for it (or ANY flashlight actually). Anyhow, just thought I would give my 2 cents on this, whatever it is worth!!


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## moozooh (Jul 30, 2012)

LED Lenser's site claims they measure the runtimes on the lowest output until it reaches 1 lumen. Rather sadistic testing conditions for an unregulated light.


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## Quiksilver (Jul 30, 2012)

Hopefully since Leatherman has purchased LED Lenser (http://www.leatherman.com/about/release?id=36) we'll get some improvement in that area toward more modern lights.

Keep in mind, a lot of the boutique manufacturers we like, don't have a business that can scale up to really reach the mainstream market at a reasonable price. Fenix broke in, but at least down here they're still far behind LED Lenser, Inova, Coast.


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## adyscarborough (Jul 30, 2012)

had an led lenser p3 and a p7...... used the p3 on a keyring for work.... still going after a year.. the p7 i used for waling the dog, i thought it was bright until i changed to an olight m3x and an xtar wk 26, both li ion powered... the olight simply blows the p7 off the face of the earth.... SO DOES THE WK26 AND THAT IS ABOUT A THIRD OF THE SIZE AND WEIGHT..... ENOUGH SAID!!


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## rambo180 (Jul 30, 2012)

sure they're brighter and smaller and better quality and cheaper and waterproof and many other fantastic things. but if you want something of reasonable mid-quality that runs on *alkalines* and has* focus*, olight and fenix and zebra don't got it


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## moozooh (Jul 31, 2012)

Sipik SK68 does that but has basically the same problems as the Lenser. Still considered a better purchase in enthusiast circles, since for 35$ you can get four of them and a pack of spare alkalines.


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## rambo180 (Jul 31, 2012)

moozooh said:


> for 35$ you can get four of them and a pack of spare alkalines



Fair enough. Seems like a darn good buy for $9. Shame I just bought a LENSER.


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## rambo180 (Aug 3, 2012)

So I just bought my first LENSER. 

P7 for $26. I am very happy with my purchase (82% discount off $RRP).

Pros:
The focus is unbelievable. Minimal lumens lost at maximum throw. _*VERY good focus system. *_They have the focus perfected.
Nice simple interface with no strobe.
Runs on alkalines
Good holster

Dislikes:
It will scratch easy and isn't waterproof.
Its a little heavy for only 200 lumens
A few unwanted rings in the beam and at full zoom the hotspot is LED square shaped. 
*RRP is unbelievably high at $149.95. *I wouldn't even pay half that.*

For the price ($26) with a quality focus system, I consider this a very good purchase.*


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## Assimilator1 (Aug 8, 2012)

So if Led lenser aren't considered much good, which makes are?

I see Olite, Jetbeam & Fenix mentioned, any others?

Was considering the Led lenser P5 (105 lumens version), or maybe the Maglite XL200 (anyone know what these are like btw?)

Cheers, a torch newbie


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## Norm (Aug 8, 2012)

Assimilator1 said:


> So if Led lenser aren't considered much good, which makes are?
> 
> I see Olite, Jetbeam & Fenix mentioned, any others?
> 
> ...



:welcome:

Your post will take us away from the original topic.

I suggest you post your question in Recommend Me a Light For...


Norm


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## Assimilator1 (Aug 9, 2012)

Norm said:


> :welcome:
> 
> Your post will take us away from the original topic.
> 
> ...



Err, ok will do, but seeing as I was going to buy a Led lenser I think my question was relevant to this thread , & saying 1 make is rubbish & not suggesting an alternative seems like 1/2 an answer .


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## Norm (Aug 9, 2012)

Assimilator1 said:


> So if Led lenser aren't considered much good, which makes are?
> 
> I see Olite, Jetbeam & Fenix mentioned, any others?
> 
> ...





Assimilator1 said:


> Err, ok will do, but seeing as I was going to buy a Led lenser I think my question was relevant to this thread , & saying 1 make is rubbish & not suggesting an alternative seems like 1/2 an answer .



My suggestion was because you mentioned other brands and as I said that would take the thread off topic.

Norm


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## rambo180 (Aug 10, 2012)

Norm said:


> My suggestion was because you mentioned other brands and as I said that would take the thread off topic.
> 
> Norm



*Assimilator if you post a thread in the "reccomend me" section, PM me and i'll personally tell you a little about the P5s, XLs, Fenix AAs etc.

*About the P5, the first page of this thread will tell you about it - main thing is that it and the Mag have focus. Nothing else does. The P5 isn't waterproof and not as bombproof as other models, but each to thier own. Don't pay retail price. Some of the other brands mentioned do make better quality which I would strongly consider of you don't want the great and exclusive focus feature of LENSERs.

I have the P7 which is the larger version of the P5. Get one from ebay with a holster and its not a bad buy in my opinion, but others say they're overpriced and only mid-quality. We'll talk about the other brands elsewhere.


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## harro (Aug 11, 2012)

I guess if you dont like em, you dont buy em. You pays your money, and makes your choice!? Like anything, they have their place in the big picture.


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## easilyled (Aug 12, 2012)

harro said:


> I guess if you dont like em, you dont buy em. You pays your money, and makes your choice!? Like anything, they have their place in the big picture.



Well, yes of course.

However the purpose of the thread was to determine if the less than stellar perception on CPF of LED LENSER was justified or not.


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## mikekoz (Aug 12, 2012)

All I can comment on is the ones I have purchased. All the LED Lenser/Coast/Eddie Bower lights I have bought have been worth what I paid for them. They are not my favorite brand. I wish they would make more 1AA, 2AA, 2C, 2D cells lights and ditch the battery holders. The most $$$ I have ever paid for one is the Coast HP7, which I mentioned in an earlier post. This light is bright, simple 2 mode interface, focuses unlike ANY light I have owned or read about, has a nice finish, and came with the nicest holster I have ever received with a light. It's weakness is the battery holder and the use of AAA's. The battery holder seems pretty well made, but is still plastic. You break it, you have no more light. AAA's are low capacity cells and are not my first choice for powering a light like this, but I will admit, I do like the size, and making it a 2C light would make it a bit larger. If the runtime (5 hours 45 minutes on high, 10 on low) on this is accurate, that would be another plus. It is rated by FL1 standards, so I may have to give it a hands on test!


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## xcel730 (Aug 28, 2012)

I never owned a LED Lenser before, so I really can't comment. I've seen them often enough in my local stores that I always associated them as lower end (my own prejudice).

In terms of focusability, LensLight also uses optics to focus the beam from flood to spot. I wonder if there are any other companies that consider to make something similar. I like the concept of focusing system, but there aren't many out there to choose from.


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## Fireclaw18 (Aug 28, 2012)

xcel730 said:


> I never owned a LED Lenser before, so I really can't comment. I've seen them often enough in my local stores that I always associated them as lower end (my own prejudice).
> 
> In terms of focusability, LensLight also uses optics to focus the beam from flood to spot. I wonder if there are any other companies that consider to make something similar. I like the concept of focusing system, but there aren't many out there to choose from.



I have a lenslight mini and a LED lenser P5. They definitely aren't the same in mechanism.

*Lenslight mini*: high-CRI XPG. Lens system appears to be a conventional aspheric lens. No reflector or backplate... the entire star is visible. Half the lumens are lost inside the bezel when the light is cycled to spot mode. Output has no visible rings in any focusing setting. Very large and heavy for what it does... it's as heavy as my SC600 even though the lenslight runs on 1xCR123. Feels durable with heavy thick sidewalls. Does not tailstand, 2 brightness settings, no tailcap lockout. Forward clicky could easily turn on accidentally in pocket. Twist zoom mechanism deposits grease onto the telescoped portion of the light when zoomed to spot mode. This grease is unfortunately right where my hand to tends to land. Wiping it away doesn't help because each time the light is cycled, a fresh layer of grease is deposited.

*LED Lenser P5*: Cool white Cree emitter (not sure what kind. Maybe an XRE). Unique focusing system consisting of an engineered plastic lens that wraps around the LED. LED is not mounted on a conventional star. Instead the LED sits on a post that protrudes into the pocket in the lens. Total lumen output remains virtually constant regardless of whether the light is cycled in zoom or spot mount. Compared to the lenslight, the LED lenser feels very flimsy and cheaply built. Single mode direct drive with no driver. Not waterproof.

Of the 2, I actually think the Lenser P5 is a better light for what it does. The lenslight is too big and heavy, is not suitable for pocket EDC due to lack of tailcap lockout, has a really awful plastic clip, and makes a mess with its grease deposits whenever the zoom mechanism is cycled.

There are LOTS of inexpensive budget lights with aspheric zoom optics. The most popular of which is probably the Sipik SK68 and related clones. There aren't many high-end brands with zoomable optics: LED lenser, lenslight and Wolf Eyes are the only brands I can think of.


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## rambo180 (Aug 29, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> There aren't many high-end brands with zoomable optics: LED lenser, lenslight and Wolf Eyes are the only brands I can think of.




Maglite should be in that list too. Most definatley!


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## Fireclaw18 (Aug 29, 2012)

rambo180 said:


> Maglite should be in that list too. Most definatley!



I wouldn't consider maglite "high end" as their lights are quite inexpensive. Also only their incandescent lights have a viable focusing mechanism. Their LED lights use conventional stars and reflectors with a simple flat plastic lens.... nothing that would allow them to cycle between flood and zoom like a real optic.


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## rambo180 (Aug 29, 2012)

Fireclaw18 said:


> I wouldn't consider maglite "high end" as their lights are quite inexpensive. Also only their incandescent lights have a viable focusing mechanism. Their LED lights use conventional stars and reflectors with a simple flat plastic lens.... nothing that would allow them to cycle between flood and zoom like a real optic.



*So you're saying the focus on LED mags isn't good when compared to traditional incan mags?* I did not know that. I've only owned many incan mags.


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## outdoormanZ (Aug 30, 2012)

Ezeriel said:


> 1: no regulation :duh2:
> 2: poor quality
> 3: not water proof
> 4: and the price is how much???
> ...



Also other reasons why not popular in China:
1.advertisement is false,especial the website banner picture.
2.The drive current is not CC,output is not so stable.


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## Fireclaw18 (Aug 30, 2012)

rambo180 said:


> *So you're saying the focus on LED mags isn't good when compared to traditional incan mags?* I did not know that. I've only owned many incan mags.



With an incan mag the light source is the filament of the light bulb. This emits light in every direction from a point source and is on a stalk (the stem of the light bulb) so can sit above a parabolic reflector. The light is focused by moving the reflector up and down which shifts the focal point of the reflector on and off the bulb's filament. Because the light source is raised above the base of the reflector the light can be cycled out of focus while still emitting virtually all of its light into the reflector.

With an LED mag, the light source is a square chip (the LED) that is mounted on a flat aluminum or copper plate (called a "star"). The reflector sits on top of the star. The light is emitted upwards from the square chip. Because the light source is not mounted on a stalk and because the star is blocking the reflector, it is not possible to retract the reflector behind the LED to take the light out of focus. The best an LED Mag can do as far as focus goes is very slightly adjusting the elevation of the reflector to raise it above the LED. This can only be done a tiny amount though because otherwise the LED would fall below the reflector and almost all the light would be lost. Net result is the focus is basically a joke.

Given how light is emitted from LEDs and how LEDs are usually mounted, the most economical way to make a zoomable LED light is vis an aspheric lens (the back of the lens is flat, but the front is curved and has a focal point). The aspheric lens is mounted on a sliding bezel. Extending it puts the lens' focal point on the LED and results in a focused in image of the chip and maximum throw, but a lot of light is absorbed into the side of the bezel and lost. When the bezel is retracted, the image unfocuses into flood mode and less light is lost into the bezel. The closer the lens can retract to the LED the wider the flood mode will be.


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## SHTorch (Sep 2, 2012)

I currently own a V2 Model led lensor as my brightest torch. After reading through this forum I understand the shortcomings of this light and I am currently looking to upgrade to something for everyday carry. That being said I enjoyed reading this forum and learned a lot from it. I had no idea there was a difference in focusing incandescents and LEDs though it really makes sense. My V2 has no focusing capability and it only operates on one "high setting" of 95 lumens. I still like this light as it was a gift from my mom (she knows I love flashlights) and will probably keep it as a backup around the house.


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## leon2245 (Sep 3, 2012)

jupello said:


> Actually the discussion IS pretty biased.
> -When they say that most Led Lensers have have no regulation, they are talking about the OLD models.
> -When they say that all the regulated Led Lensers have just high-med-blinky modes similar to the DX cheapies, they are lieing.
> -Then they compare the optic material to reflector and lens materials.. like comparing apples to oranges.
> ...






fireclaw18 said:


> I just checked on the LED Lenser website for their list of current models.* I assumed *that all lights...



Hahahaha LED Lenser is number one in Ukraine!


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## rambo180 (Sep 3, 2012)

SHTorch said:


> I currently own a V2 Model led lensor as my brightest torch. After reading through this forum I understand the shortcomings of this light and I am currently looking to upgrade to something for everyday carry. That being said I enjoyed reading this forum and learned a lot from it. I had no idea there was a difference in focusing incandescents and LEDs though it really makes sense. My V2 has no focusing capability and it only operates on one "high setting" of 95 lumens. I still like this light as it was a gift from my mom (she knows I love flashlights) and will probably keep it as a backup around the house.



Keep it for sure. 95lumens for the little v2 isn't embarassing at all. Sure there are better, but there are certainly weaker lights out there too!


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## gaussman (Sep 3, 2012)

Hi mates this is my first post.
I also noticed that they are not very well considered. Tha main reason I think was the non regulated output on P series.
I own a M7 and I think it's my most versatile flashlight.
Expecially when used to work near a wall or a panel the missing hot spot is really useful.
On the other side the the throw is outstanding if compared to other flashlights.

Of course I'd really like to be able to chose the output mode...I mean...
I know LL chosed output "curve" to increase runtime, but I think may people would like to access a real constant current mode.


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## jukeboxx (Oct 19, 2012)

So from reading this thread I feel the main reason IMO that LED Lenser lights are disliked is because they are not regulated, and the beam dims out pretty easy. I would like to add that I own a p7 and v2 which have worked very well for me in the past till now. The LED Lenser v2 is my edc at work at night for 1 year now, and i have not noticed the light dimming at all until at least 2 months of edc use. The p7 is my home flashlight which i have had for 2 years with no issue from the advanced focusing or dimming. Both my flashlights have taken hard drops over and over, and both have been under water for a short time with now problems. So as of now I really like LED Lenser flashlights, but I am also new at this so my mind might change if I want a heavy duty torch. 

thanks for reading


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## Chicken Drumstick (Oct 19, 2012)

I've been reading up on Led Lenser lights quite a bit recently. And I'm amazed at some of the claims made by forum users.

I don't own a Led Lenser, I do own some higher end lights and some budget lights. But I reckon a Led Lenser will be my next purchase.

For why?

Partly interest, but also I truly don't believe all the rubbish that so many seem to feel the need to post about them.

1. Some Led Lensers are regulated.
2. Some use lithium batteries
3. Many can be had (UK) for half the price of a 4Sevens light


And besides, other lights aren't always constant current regulated, Crelants for instance. And I'm willing to be a good few p60 drop ins are no better than direct driven lights either or fall out of regulation early if driving the LED hard.


Maybe I'll eat my words, guess we'll know when I buy one


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## mikekoz (Oct 19, 2012)

Couldn't regulation also be a disadvantage in some situations? For example, take two lights, A and B. A is regulated and puts out 200 lumens for 2 hours. B also puts out 200 lumens, but claims to run for 4 hours. True, light B would not put out 200 lumens over a period of 4 hours, but you get more runtime. This may be useful if you do not need 200 lumens for the entire time the light is on. You may be lost in the woods, in a cave, or just afraid of the dark! :devil: You would not need a lot of lumens to light your way in a really dark place. Also, I use several non regulated lights, and I can use them for days, weeks even, before I notice a drop in output. This is probably due to the fact I only use them a short period of time each time I pick them up, and the batteries get some rest. It is also possible, in my case, that since I use NIMH cells in my non-regulated lights, that gives them a measure of regulation. I still prefer a light be regulated, mainly because it seems you get what you pay for , lumen wise, with them, but it is not as big of a deal for me.


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## yliu (Oct 19, 2012)

mikekoz said:


> Couldn't regulation also be a disadvantage in some situations? For example, take two lights, A and B. A is regulated and puts out 200 lumens for 2 hours. B also puts out 200 lumens, but claims to run for 4 hours. True, light B would not put out 200 lumens over a period of 4 hours, but you get more runtime. This may be useful if you do not need 200 lumens for the entire time the light is on. You may be lost in the woods, in a cave, or just afraid of the dark!



This is why different brightness settings are useful.


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## mikekoz (Oct 19, 2012)

yliu said:


> This is why different brightness settings are useful.



True, but then you are doing manually what the light is doing automatically anyway! :thinking: Plus, if you lower the brightness on both lights, the same would still apply.


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## jukeboxx (Oct 19, 2012)

Chicken Drumstick said:


> I've been reading up on Led Lenser lights quite a bit recently. And I'm amazed at some of the claims made by forum users.
> 
> I don't own a Led Lenser, I do own some higher end lights and some budget lights. But I reckon a Led Lenser will be my next purchase.
> 
> ...



I believe you well be happy with the pocket sized models like the v2. I just ran mine for 2 hours straight last night on stored AAA battries i had for a year, and did not notice a big difference in dimming. YMMV


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## parnass (Oct 19, 2012)

I just gifted away a LED Lenser 1AA David 15 I used for several years and it worked very well. It employed a forward clicky tail switch with momentary action at a time when most other Chinese-made lights used reverse clickies. The David 15 worked reliably and I had no complaints with it.

My only other LED Lenser was a 4AAA "frogman-type" Luxeon light. It was waterproof and had a stainless steel head. It worked fine until I dropped it from a 3 foot height. That broke a solder connection which I repaired.


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## moozooh (Oct 20, 2012)

mikekoz said:


> True, but then you are doing manually what the light is doing automatically anyway!



If you want the light to make decisions for you, sure, that works I suppose.

I'm afraid the economy argument doesn't work in most cases, though. If the output setting you're using—say, 200 lumen—is still equally useful after having been dimmed to 100 lumen, it only means you never needed the other 100 for that task, thus wasting battery power. When the output goes below being useful (let's say you're on a bike and <90 lm is not enough), you have to switch to the higher setting that'll drain your battery faster—if there even is a higher setting in the first place. Either way you're stuck between having extra battery drain and extra headache of readjusting the constantly changing output. Whereas if you had a 100 lm setting that remained throughout the battery life you would never had to worry about either problem. This only applies if your flashlight has more than two modes, though, because otherwise you're going to have a lot of extra battery drain regardless.

The argument does work if you want to drain the last little bits of your battery on the lowest mode(s). Only then it makes sense from the economy standpoint.


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## Rat6P (Oct 20, 2012)

LED LENSER aren't that bad. If we could compare all lights without factoring price into the equation they would be far from the bottom, but not at the top (IMHO).

The problem is (especially in Australia) they are a rip off. They are good lights. They are simply not worth the asking price here in Oz. (With a couple of exceptions - they do have some nice headlamps)

For those of us who live in Australia this should come as no surprise (especially if you live in that big western state), as Aussies generally pay extortionist prices when buying retail. There are a few exceptions, and a few good online stores that challenge this but it really is shocking how much we have to shell out.
And for the moment this will continue as the general public don't seem to know any better and are happy to part with their hard earned cash too easily.

Luckily our dollar is relatively strong and you have the option to buy what I consider better brands for fairer prices from over seas. Even factoring in shipping this route is often financially more sensible.
That said there are some online stores based in Oz that do have competitive prices already for some of the more popular and well known brands here on CPF.

I just wish the retailers would stop raping us with Surefire prices. 
My intention here is not to start a particular brand bashing post but point out a similar trend in the flashlight industry with a more well known brand here on CPF.
Personally I love SureFire, but in my opinion they are not worth the asking price of retailers in Oz. Just like LED LENSER. Unfortunately retailers in other countries are prohibited from shipping most Sure Fire products over seas. (God Bless CPFMP and CPF members!!!!).

If LED LENSER tickles your fancy go for it. Part of the fun of this hobby is amassing a collection of sorts. Your tastes, preferences and opinions will change gradually and its all good.

Just promise me one thing - If you live in Oz, don't buy anymore LED LENSER retail. Get it from overseas. Same goes for SureFire


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## jellydonut (Nov 3, 2012)

Finally got to give led lensers a shot after only reading about them thus far. My impressions, from the viewpoint of mostly using malkoff and surefire:

- The output varies from 'decent' to 'really poor', going from small to large lights. Their fat, 8xAA lights produce the same output as their smaller lights, which make them seem silly and oversized.

- The lack of regulation is not as annoying as with, say, a maglite, since LEDs are kinder to batteries. It is, however annoying in the same way. Just not as egregious as with alkaline incans.

- Reliability is better than expected. The lights have been used as work lights by non-owners for years and the anodizing is almost gone. These lights rarely have problems, except for the tail switch commonly failing. Led lenser actually uses forward clickies, and they degrade gracefully. That is to say, when the latching fails, the light still works, and the switch turns into a momentary switch.

- Not impressed by the lack of a spring in the head.

- The flood-to-spot mechanism works surprisingly well. The flood is proper floody with no donut hole, and the spot is akin to a malkoff m60 with more rings. (i dont care about 'beam prettiness and prefer smooth reflectors, ymmv) every point in between min and max adjustment is, however, useless. Full of dark spots and usually a huge donut hole.

Basically i think more lights should have that feature, and not just these outdated ones.


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## matt4350 (Nov 5, 2012)

I have a Lenser X14. I bought it after only owning mags, so it was my introduction to LEDs. I'm not in a good position to compare this light with others, but there's a few points worth mentioning from my use of it. 

I use the light for police work, and I find it useful to go from spot to flood. I only use it at either end of the possible, as in-between seems a bit pointless. I did a test on the ceiling, and noticed no difference in the amount of light between either end of the focus. The light seems tough enough, it's hit concrete and asphalt from chest height a few times with no problems but the finish has sustained a few dings. With this light, I can choose between constant current or the "power saver" mode. A selling point for me was that the light runs on AA batteries. I've noticed almost no difference between the so-called "turbo" mode and "high", but the "low" setting is great for close-up work. The light does seem to lack many options I'm now only just starting to learn about, although it does suit the purpose for which I bought it.

Thanks to these forums, I'm starting to get an interest in other lights. I've decided to "upgrade" from the Lenser soon, I was quite ignorant of what was out there at my time of purchase. I'm of the opinion that while my Lenser is certainly adequate, there is better available, and I'll keep the Lenser as my house light. 

I've also used the Lenser M7R, it seems to be a handy, attractive light but it's a little small for my liking (although quite a few of my workmates like them for just that reason).

From my very limited knowledge, I'd say that a Lenser is fine if it suits your task, although I don't believe they're worth the price. I paid just over 200 dollars for my X14 (that's about the normal price in Australia) so I've learned I should have shopped around a bit and looked at some other brands.


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## FPSRelic (Nov 6, 2012)

matt4350 said:


> I have a Lenser X14. I bought it after only owning mags, so it was my introduction to LEDs. I'm not in a good position to compare this light with others, but there's a few points worth mentioning from my use of it.
> 
> I use the light for police work, and I find it useful to go from spot to flood. I only use it at either end of the possible, as in-between seems a bit pointless. I did a test on the ceiling, and noticed no difference in the amount of light between either end of the focus. The light seems tough enough, it's hit concrete and asphalt from chest height a few times with no problems but the finish has sustained a few dings. With this light, I can choose between constant current or the "power saver" mode. A selling point for me was that the light runs on AA batteries. I've noticed almost no difference between the so-called "turbo" mode and "high", but the "low" setting is great for close-up work. The light does seem to lack many options I'm now only just starting to learn about, although it does suit the purpose for which I bought it.
> 
> ...



LED Lensers are very popular with Australian Police. I'm not sure if it's because they have flood/throw characteristics with the ability to take more common batteries, or simply because they're the big name in tactical lights you see whenever you walk into a camping store. Regardless of the reason, if they work for you and all those other guyswho are supposedly in a situation where their life depends on their light, I say keep it up.


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## Samy (Nov 6, 2012)

FPSRelic said:


> LED Lensers are very popular with Australian Police. I'm not sure if it's because they have flood/throw characteristics with the ability to take more common batteries, or simply because they're the big name in tactical lights you see whenever you walk into a camping store. Regardless of the reason, if they work for you and all those other guyswho are supposedly in a situation where their life depends on their light, I say keep it up.



It's the camping store syndrome, there's a lot of marketing that goes into them and people just take the marketing for it's word. LED Lenser are every where the general public will see them in Australia. Only an extremely small group of people have heard of most of the brands regularly mentioned on this forum, that includes Surefire.

cheers


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## luisugueto90 (Nov 6, 2012)

I will start by saying that i have absolutely NO experience with the lights i've read you guys are used to, the "seriously fancy light that require a certain amount of snob when you mention them" lights. By this I mean no offense, and it is absolutely normal, as it happens in every single hobby where someone starts getting "boutique" items that are extremely high performance. Trust me, i've been into every single expensive sport or hobby you can think of, and even know I won't have lights as a hobby I do use them a lot. I also enjoy thoroughly investigating on the web before I buy stuff, and see what people use or think of everything, to get the best items i can. What i'm trying to say is, when you have a forum like this, you'll always have people who are extremely serious about their stuff and start to be extremely picky about minuscule details that 99.5% of the people wouldn't even notice - i.e. special batteries, plastic lenses, reflectors, and the one that has impressed me most, beam tints. I won't say there aren't fair points and actual truth behind these statements and details, but regular people don't know about any of this. What i'm trying to do here is to reduce the bias in this thread -and the others about Led Lenser I also read- In the form of a more "Average joe" point of view.

I don't own a Led Lenser, but a few of my camping, fishing and hunting buddies do. I joined this forum very recently when investigating for the purchase of a higher performance light. Between my considerations I had Inova, Maglite (I have a bunch of them, but I was looking at the new magtac), Surefire and Led Lenser. All of which, for me and my friends, are extremely high performance, hellishly bright and very well built. When I found this forum and started investigating ad it brought to light all those flaws and disadvantages of the Led Lenser I wouldn't have noticed otherwise, and you're absolutely right, they are on a much lower value compared to others. But haven't you wondered that maybe the lights they offer are aimed at a different target than the light nuts on this place?? They work just fine for what and who they were designed for, bringing much more performance than a regular light, even if the comparable brands do actually pack way more performance for a similar pricepoint, but that's only something the informed minority of people in this place knows.

I agree that they would be way better if they improved certain aspects, and they can step it up a notch and have more than just the focus system as an advantage, but hey, they're still selling a bunch of lights. Speaking on my behalf, I'm glad I went back to buying Surefire as they're still the best in my book. I'm also gonna keep having my Mag LEDs, which I consider high performance, despite them being cheap and having plastic reflectors or what not lol, nothing will ever be as reliable as a D cell Mag. I would also consider buying a Led Lenser one day, although they will be on the lower half of my list. 


Just my 2 cents...


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## Outdoorsman5 (Nov 6, 2012)

LED Lenser has a few powerful things going for them which lends to their success. 
1) Patent - They have a patent on their Throw to Flood mechanism which works very very well I must say (I have owned 8 of em over the years.) The newer models are quite a bit better than their older models. The flood now is almost perfect and very nice looking. The spot has some useable spill; where as, the older models didn't.
2) Marketing - LED Lenser has some very very effective marketing, and they are everywhere. Unfortunately most of their marketing has been very misleading and/or untrue (lumens & runtimes,) but the unsuspecting customer took it to be true. I have noticed though that their newer models have more realistic performance stats...so they have & are improving.
3) General ignorance - Most people couldn't care less about flashlights, and rarely give them a second thought....until they need one. But since 99% of the folks out there don't care that much, they just don't know what's available. Most are used to the low output & low runtime of an old Maglite. When they stumble upon an LED Lenser (in Home Depot or Lowes or Target) then they suddenly think they've found something special & incredible. Well, they have found something special, but since they don't know what else is out there (because that's all that's on the shelf) they get sucked into lower quality with a price tag that suggests higher quality. Since most of them have never heard of Surefire, Sunwayman, Foursevens, Eagletac, Olight, Zebralight, Armytek, Jetbeam, Klarus, Thrunite, etc. then they just don't know that "better quality" exists for the same prices or less. This happens in lots of industries though, and LED Lenser is very successful at it.

I wish LED Lenser made lights that not only had their excellent throw to flood, but also were better quality. They have a corner on the "Throw to Flood" market which no one can touch since they have their patent. I just wish they'd cater to those of us that care about better build quality, better detail, better battery options, smaller size & weight, better output options, realistic prices, etc. BUT, the truth is at the momement* they don't really need to care about those things *that much because most of their customers don't know enough to care....unless they become enlightened as most of us have here on CPF . 

I have a friend that has a passion for iPhones. I couldn't care less about them. But, I get it. His phone is far superior to my cheap droid, and he loves his phone. He uses it a ton, loves how crisp & perfect it is, and he can't wait to get the next one. Again, I get it, but I just don't share the passion for em. It burns him up that I bought a cheap straight talk LG droid, and I just laugh about it. He makes fun of me for being cheap, and I make fun of him for how much he is spending....oh well. I see the difference though, and his phone blows mine away in terms of overall quality & function. I want one now, but don't want to pay those kinds of prices. 

The mistake that is being made by many is that they are paying "iphone" prices for a cheap "straight talk droid" when they buy an LED Lenser, AND THEY DON'T REALIZE IT. The only benefit they are getting with their money is the "throw to flood" function, and they are only getting mediocre quality with the rest of the light for that price tag.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Nov 6, 2012)

Do you have any links for these false/misleading advertising claims?


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## Outdoorsman5 (Nov 6, 2012)

Chicken Drumstick said:


> Do you have any links for these false/misleading advertising claims?



Nope, but I have a spreadsheet on my phone where I've kept data on my lights that says "105 lumens with battery life of 120 hours" all on 3 AAA batteries. Got that off the packaging...and that performance ain't possible. Ok, I understand the arguement that the light will run down to something like .000001 lumen & run at that level for something like 115 hours, but that's not exactly what they were advertising. Again they appear to be cleaning this up, and I have a new found respect for them. I just wish they'd make their quality match their price tag...especially since they have the excellent throw to flood functionality.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Nov 6, 2012)

Chicken Drumstick said:


> Do you have any links for these false/misleading advertising claims?



Oh look, here's one - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000MTIFUQ/?tag=cpf0b6-20

This light is similar to the first ones I bought from them back in the mid 2000's. This add says:

*"Coast LED Lenser 7438 LED Flashlight Tactical Focus Beam"
**Product Features*



Up to 115 lumens of light output and 52 hours of battery life
Beam distance of up to 722 feet
Lightweight and durable aluminum body, 5 inches
Rear on/off switch
3 AAA batteries (included)

If you ever saw a company advertising like that on CPF then they'd take it in the teeth.


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## Chicken Drumstick (Nov 6, 2012)

Outdoorsman5 said:


> Nope, but I have a spreadsheet on my phone where I've kept data on my lights that says "105 lumens with battery life of 120 hours" all on 3 AAA batteries. Got that off the packaging...and that performance ain't possible. Ok, I understand the arguement that the light will run down to something like .000001 lumen & run at that level for something like 115 hours, but that's not exactly what they were advertising. Again they appear to be cleaning this up, and I have a new found respect for them. I just wish they'd make their quality match their price tag...especially since they have the excellent throw to flood functionality.



Thing is though, how and where to rate that run time actually stops? So long as Led Lenser were consistent across all of their lights then it meant their figures where directly comparable across their range.

As for the lumen claims... well if it makes that number then it makes it. As I've said before GM claim 505hp and 26mpg for a Corvette, doesn't mean it'll do both at the same time.


-- BTW I'm not saying it's right, just it isn't a simple situation and without guideline makes it impossible to please everyone.


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## Outdoorsman5 (Nov 6, 2012)

Chicken Drumstick said:


> Thing is though, how and where to rate that run time actually stops? So long as Led Lenser were consistent across all of their lights then it meant their figures where directly comparable across their range.
> 
> As for the lumen claims... well if it makes that number then it makes it. As I've said before GM claim 505hp and 26mpg for a Corvette, doesn't mean it'll do both at the same time.
> 
> ...



Being consistant is a good thing, and being comparable to their other lights is helpful. But, they were still being misleading as crap. HOWEVER, they are learning their lessons, and have realed it in a good bit.

Advertising does point to the heart of a company though, but you are right. It is not a simple situation since there are no clear guidelines for these things.


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## Verndog (Nov 13, 2012)

I bought my Lenser MT7 about a year ago (same as P7 with 220 lumens, strobe and dimer) as I was starting to get into the newer LED from the older maglight days. After getting a couple Fenix lights I find myself grabbing for those when walking the dog or cruising the property, but I still like the Lenser MT7 and the fact it has some features the others dont. At full throw you can see way further then any other light I own (that will likely change when my LD-41 arrives), and at full flood it has an awesome circle of bright light within 20 feet or so for closer viewing or finding stuff. The problem is those 2 things are needed less then 20% of the time (outdoors), and the inbetween times the light struggles to find an optimum setting for combination flood/throw. 

I also like the variable dimming feature and the ability to finding the right amount of light needed and I see no drop off running Nimh batteries

Bottom line, for $60.00 I think it was an OK deal, and cool to have along with other lights. As a daily go to light, for my needs there are definitely better choices.


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## AutoTech (Nov 13, 2012)

I've got led lenser to thank (hmm, is that the right word) for getting into flashlights. I bought one of their pen torches for inspections and think I was looking online for batteries and charger ideas when I came accross this site. At the time I was going to buy a P7 and next thing I know I've got loads of alternatives and I'm on first name terms with my postman!

They are a bit of a nearly light for me, nearly good but just lacking. It's like that penlight, perfect grip, lovely beam (on flood) but pathetic output! On the other hand I bought a 4sevens preon 2 and don't use that for work either, it's amazing output but it's more slippery than an eel in a bucket of oil. It the lenser had the output of my preon I'd be loving it for work!


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## HaileStorm (Nov 13, 2012)

I don't dislike them... I just go for something else. But I probably would've paid for one if I hadn't known better. I used to find them quite interesting, in fact.


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## StorminMatt (Nov 15, 2012)

mikekoz said:


> I wish they would make more 1AA, 2AA, 2C, 2D cells lights and ditch the battery holders. The most $$$ I have ever paid for one is the Coast HP7, which I mentioned in an earlier post. This light is bright, simple 2 mode interface, focuses unlike ANY light I have owned or read about, has a nice finish, and came with the nicest holster I have ever received with a light. It's weakness is the battery holder and the use of AAA's. The battery holder seems pretty well made, but is still plastic. You break it, you have no more light.



Agreed 100% on the battery holders. I myself have a Coast PX25. In alot of ways, it's a GREAT light. I like the fact that it is relatively small in size and puts out the kind of light that it does. But that stupid red and black AAA battery holder is a piece of GARBAGE! Specifically, there is a wire that goes the length of the thing on one of the three posts between the bottom and top of the thing. And the solder joints at either end of this wire just LOVE to give out. The problem seems to be that this section of rigid wire is soldered to a PCB at either end of the holder. And the deflection of the (plastic) holder which results from installing and removing batteries (which cyclicly stretches and relaxes the holder) seems to put a load on these solder joints. This causes them to fatigue and break. Mine gave out shortly after I bought the thing. So I called Coast. Luckily, they were willing to warranty it and send me another holder. But that one was actually bad right out of the box! I ended up resoldering it. And it seems to be holding OKAY. But needless to say, I don't have a tremendous amount of faith in the thing. I won't EVER take it out on a night hike with me without a backup light. And that's not really the way I like to feel about a flashlight. It's too bad, especially considering that this light is actually quite good in all other ways.

Interestingly, when I called Coast to get a replacement battery holder, they basically told me that the 3xAAA battery holder is a trouble spot in alot of their lights, and that they are working on a new battery holder. Hopefully, they can remedy this problem once and for all. Hopefully, they will both incorporate larger solder joints AND a wire which allows expansion of the holder.

I have been thinking about buying the new, $49, 1000 lumen Coast HP550 at Costco. But I know that it uses AA batteries, which means that it has a battery holder. And I don't know that this one will be any more trustworthy than the one in my PX25. On the other hand, maybe they have already addressed this.


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## bedazzLED (Nov 15, 2012)

I don't dislike Led Lenser lights and I do have a few of them. For example, I have the MT7 and it's quite a good light, and the H7 is a great headlamp, but the simple fact is, as already stated, they are simply over-priced compared to the competition, and there are simply better lights out there at a much more competitive price.

There is one BIG advantage of Led Lensers though.

When my kids go on school camps, I tend to give them either the P5, P6, P7 or the MT7 as they like the zoom facility on them, they last a reasonable amount of time, they are a safe chemistry, they are pretty bright and if they damage/lose one, then I won't be too concerned. Imagine giving the kids a Surefire light and they lose it?

MAJOR LOSS!!!!!


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## StorminMatt (Nov 15, 2012)

bedazzLED said:


> but the simple fact is, as already stated, they are simply over-priced compared to the competition, and there are simply better lights out there at a much more competitive price.



Have to agree about this one. After all, where do they get off asking $100 more for an HP21 than a Fenix TK70? On the other hand, it will be interesting to see how things go with this 1000 lumen HP550 that they're selling at Costco for $49. THAT actually sounds like a good value, provided it holds up. And for $49, I would certainly take a chance on it. But apparently, the Costco stores in my area are probably not going to get it until next week. We'll see then.


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## utlgoa (Nov 25, 2012)

*FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

http://www.ledlenser.com/flashlight/full-size/m7rx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbadGXJgXPg&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAKqLStuuH0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_giJkdL-uI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyzAmoYdh9c


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## Fireclaw18 (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

Interesting.

If it's doing 600 ANSI then it's probably using an XML emitter. Has LED Lenser finally decided to use a current emitter?


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## Blitzwing (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

I remain sub-awed....


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## ILIKEFLASHLIGHTS (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

I like Led Lenser lights. I have 2 of them. But I do think they are overpriced when it comes to retail price. And there are a lot of budget lights on the market that cost a lot less that will smoke em in brightness and in throw.


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## AnAppleSnail (Nov 25, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

235mm ANSI throw? An excellent unit goof. It seems to be their standard offering with an Xm-l and 18650. Is the M series even constant-current regulated? I'm glad they've released with the XM-L. Finally.


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## hellokitty[hk] (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*



Blitzwing said:


> I remain sub-awed....


I'm also not quite impressed.


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## LEDburn (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

What a great thread. (Sarcasm detector on?)

LED Lenser suck. Seriously. Having a LED Lenser as my first "good" light seems novel now. 

Have you even owned any other brand?

I have owned several LL's and currently own many other brands too. 
I can safely say that unless something seriously changes (I doubt it ever will) then there will never be another one of their poor performing lights being added to my collection.

Do some more research and you will see just like I, and MANY others, have that they really are a rip-off in most countries and perform worse than something half the price more often than not.

BTW youtube links...seriously? They're that good yet you can't even say a word of your own on the subject. Pathetic.


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## Jay611j (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*



Fireclaw18 said:


> Interesting.
> 
> If it's doing 600 ANSI then it's probably using an XML emitter. Has LED Lenser finally decided to use a current emitter?


Coast just came out with a 1000 lumen light with an XM-L so I wouldn't doubt it if they did.

Coast HP550 thread


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## Quiksilver (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

Remember Lenser is a subsidiary of Leatherman now.

Leatherman seems to be a little more keyed in to the hobbyist/trend-setter market than LED Lenser was under its own management.

Result: They may be taking notes from the flashlight enthusiast community and trying to incorporate some of those trend-setting features into more 'everyday consumer' accessable price points. 

They already have a robust distribution system, so if they can start sending some real high quality high value lights down that distribution system, they could be a powerhouse this decade. 

Hopefully they get their premier lights off that silly AAA platform and do some work on the light engines to bring them into the 21st century. 

I'm hopeful for LED Lenser, but as of yet none of their offers excite me.


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## mvyrmnd (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

What annoys me is they list the emitter as "High end power LED"

Why not just list the actual emitter rather than vague nonsense?

I like to know what I'm spending (wasting) my money on...


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## THE_dAY (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

Haha the fourth link, the nerf gun with the light on it, was funny, poor little kid screaming at the end, all in good fun though.


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## utlgoa (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*



LEDburn said:


> What a great thread. (Sarcasm detector on?)
> 
> LED Lenser suck. Seriously. Having a LED Lenser as my first "good" light seems novel now.
> 
> ...



*Don't be a Hater!

*http://www.ledlenser.com/about/awards


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## Bwolcott (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

what doesnt impress me is the 230 dollar price tag lol


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## keenism (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

*golf clap* Shame I've spent my money on brands doing a bit better job of keeping with the times...

edit: IPX4 ....doesn't even deserve the golf clap, I do have a pen with a similar magnetic holder...not sure about using that as a charging method.


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## Fireclaw18 (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*



keenism said:


> ... IPX4 ....doesn't even deserve the golf clap ...



There's a reason zoomable lights tend to not be waterproof. Cycling the zooming mechanism changes the internal volume of the light. This changes the relative air pressure inside the light compared to that outside the light. If the light were completely air-tight, pressure would not be able to equalize and vacuum action would cause the bezel to return to whichever position it was in when the battery compartment was closed. This is a bad thing.

If you want a completely water-proof air-tight light, you should not look for a zoomable light.


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## keenism (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: FOR ALL YOU HATERS....The Led Lenser M7RX*

I can think of several solutions that would seal off the light once its zoom level is chosen, I assume their engineers could as well.


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## tankmatt (Jan 5, 2013)

*No love for Led Lenser?!?*

Hi all.
I'm a newbee - so probably missing something, but what's the issue with led lenser.
I have been looking at the M7RX & the X7R. To me they seem like quality lights (newbee?!). The idea of optical lenses makes sense, and the focusable beam seems useful.
So, why no love for Led Lenser


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## Newuser01 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?337898-Why-the-dislike-for-LED-LENSER

And do a little google search like this : "site : http://www.candlepowerforums.com led lenser M7RX X7R"

and see what you come up with.... Generally LED Lenser lights are regarded as follows.


> *LED Lensers tend to be overpriced for what you get. For instance, LED Lensers have*:
> 1. Many LED lensers are direct drive single mode lights with no regulation. This means they dim rapidly as the battery runs down.
> 2. The few regulated models tend to only have high-med-blinky modes... similar to what is found on many budget $10 lights and far inferior to the modes and UI found on high-end lights.
> 3. They have plastic optics and reflectors. Many other high-end lights have coated glass optics with metal reflectors.
> ...





> 1: no regulation :duh2:
> 2: poor quality
> 3: not water proof
> 4: and the price is how much???
> ...


led lenser M7RX cost $230 + shipping.
led lenser X7R cost $180 + shipping. 
WOW, Let me go buy some lottery tickets and I'll be back! 
This is the kind of $ some would spend on SureFire lights.


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## eusty (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

Having bought a lenser as my first light I was pretty impressed, but after more lights I agree with the view that they are overpriced and under spec compared to others in the market.

Sent using Tapatalk 2.


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## jellydonut (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

The only thing they have going for them is the flood-spot alternation, which is actually pretty good in my book.

In terms of quality, durability, reliability, and what you get for your dollar.. They're some of the worst out there.


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## mcnair55 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

Probably one of the best at marketing,there display stands have "Buy me now" written all over them.Check out the display option videos they have available.They dominate many markets throughout the world.They make you feel you bought something special.You get a nice black box and a nice holster and generally something like a carabiner from the showcase stand,buying from the floor stand you get it in a test it blister.


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## gravelmonkey (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

I don't really get all this complaining that "its not water-proof", surely the comprimise of an excellent focusing mechanism is a decrease in water-resistance...? Having had a look, water is more likely to get in the switch mechanism of my P7 than at the head.

Other than that, agree the tech is a bit old for the price and build quality is "acceptable".

GM


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## yliu (Jan 6, 2013)

*No love for Led Lenser?!?*

Even with their regulated lights, the regulation isn't so good and output tend to drop with use. 

The biggest problem is the high price... You can buy much better lights with better performance.


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## tankmatt (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

Thanks for the input guys...

Certainly more issues than I was expecting. I might take a closer look into a fenix tk35.


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## Tybo22 (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

No love here !!! Got a MR7 for my birthday took it back 2 days later. LED Lenser is a jack of all trades...master of none. It has flood and throw but does neither well. Direct drive is a no no for me as is not being able to use lithium batteries. On top of that they have poor regulation and they use out dated led's.


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## firelord777 (Jan 6, 2013)

*No love for Led Lenser?!?*

Currently, Led Lenser isn't good, I would even say, at all, compared to other options. Unless they pull themselves together and stop overpricing lights and make them better, we won't be changing our opinion anytime soon.

No offense to led Lenser owners.

One day, I has my Klarus XT20, and I was walking outside. Some random guy hollers if I had a led Lenser. I was like..um..heck no! I showed then XT to him and he was just stunned, even more when I told him the price! Even though $150 is a lot for the average person (I got the light for review, because I simply don't have that kind of money laying around), he said he should have bought the Klarus. His eyes gleaned when I told him it was waterproof, and explained what regulation is and the whole deal.

He said he was going to join CPF under the name of homesecurity - something, but I never saw him after that.

Cheers


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## Al_D (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

There is such a bewildering array of better alternatives to anything Led Lenser has to offer in its line-up-- In almost every respect expect, as mentioned above, marketing. Their placement in venues of manly pursuits is aggressive and persuasive to the uninitiated. With that brand-visibility they've seemingly found the 'balls' to charge the prices for their products that (more) deserving companies do.
Don't get me wrong, if I see someone, especially someone I did not expect to be so inclined, pull out a light for a task I recognize that person's foresight to be prepared with an appropriate tool-- regardless of it's maker.


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## tankmatt (Jan 6, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*

I guess I should look into klarus also.
Joining this forum may end up costing me lots...


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## Al_D (Jan 7, 2013)

*Re: No love for Led Lenser?!?*



tankmatt said:


> I guess I should look into klarus also.
> Joining this forum may end up costing me lots...



"May"?


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