# How tough are Surefire's incandescent bulbs?



## ebow86 (Jul 1, 2011)

I have my share of surefire incandescent lights and lamps, but to be perfectly honest, none of those lights have ever taken hard drops and abuse, admittedly I baby them most of the time. But I'm always wondering to myself, how tough, or fragile, are surefire lamps in general when it comes to hard drops and abuse? I always wonder when I'm using my surefire incans, particularly when thinking of life and death situations, would this bulb blow if I droped it here? How much abuse could this lamp take?

I would like to hear some of you guys story's about how much abuse your surefire incandescent lights have taken and whether your lamps have stood up to abuse over the years or did they fail you?


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## shao.fu.tzer (Jul 1, 2011)

Well... I can't speak for Surefire, since I only keep a few SF incans around actually loaded with bulbs and have yet to really drop one, but I remember dropping a few Mag minis and killing them back in the day when I was a kid... Anytime you add glass to the equation, you're going to experience breakage somewhere down the line after a drop on a hard surface... Lenses included...


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## angelofwar (Jul 1, 2011)

I've had a few instaflash on fresh cells, but, having dropped plenty of incan SF's, I've never had one break from droppage.


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## fivemega (Jul 1, 2011)

*In general, low wattage bulbs (Small fillaments) can take harder impacts but if bulb is *ON* then chance of surviving is very tiny.
It is possible to make 2 different bulbs with exact same envelope size, same wattage and same voltage but different fillament shape. One could have better resistance to impact but other will have different beam shape. Carley is maker of $urefire bulbs with great engineering for best combination of reliability and excellent beam quality.*


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## Mike Docherty (Jul 1, 2011)

I've been using personal and issued surefire lights as a cop for almost 18 years. My lights (and various partners and teamates) have been dropped numerous times. All my carry lights have bezels that are so dented that I can't use any of the fancy bezel rings that have become available lately. I also used them as dedicated and field expedient weaponlights on rifles, pistols, shotguns, and submachineguns. I've seen lenses crack but I never saw a bulb break due to dropping or weapon recoil.


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## ^^Nova^^ (Jul 1, 2011)

I dropped a 9P that was on (running a Lumens Factory bulb) and it blew about a second after the light hit the concrete. I had it tucked under my arm and it slipped out. Not sure if SF bulbs would be any more robust under those circumstances.

Cheers,
Nova


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## curtispdx (Jul 1, 2011)

I've broken three P91s from dropping them from about hip-height and onto asphalt or vinyl flooring.


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## oldways (Jul 2, 2011)

Broke one MN15 (running) with a 4 foot drop on concrete.


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## ebow86 (Jul 2, 2011)

Seems like experiences are split so far. Can someone explain in detail the difference in durability between a hot filament and a cool one? Why is a hot filament more pone to breaking than a cold one?


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## oldways (Jul 2, 2011)

Cause it is almost melted??


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## wuyeah (Jul 3, 2011)

My A2 is full of scars and have dropped number of times. During running and off. On concrete, ceremic tile, outdoor rocks....etc.
I am still on its original bulb. body are dent and chipped though.


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## yellow (Jul 3, 2011)

when I started using my 6R/P, it once slipped out ouf my hand and dropped onto concrete.
The LA was destroyed - that white material fixing the bulb cracked to pieces.
But that was quite some time ago, I think they are now somehow "shock isolated" (?)

PS: that way I learned that a light does not have to fall down and I did succeed ... 
... at least the few times it happened again, I was able to move my leg in between and ease the 1st impact. 



Mike Docherty said:


> All my carry lights have bezels that are so dented that I can't use any of the fancy bezel rings that have become available lately.


on my orange 6P - which did not hit ANYTHING - I did not put overeadys bezel ring on. 
When a guy I recommended a 6P noticed at his light about one half of the bezel was already bent, I checked mine and it also had a dent. Could install the ring, but at one spot there is this ugly bending.
I really hate the new heads. I think they decreased ruggedness. 
And You can forget about "ease" of changing the front glass, when that lip is bent. 
I want the much better looking, way more rugged "old" round bodies back. Had to change lenses 2 times and it worked, so whats the gain of the Hex-ones?

Without overready`s bezel ring, no P60 Style SF light is "complete"


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## jh333233 (Jul 3, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> Seems like experiences are split so far. Can someone explain in detail the difference in durability between a hot filament and a cool one? Why is a hot filament more pone to breaking than a cold one?


 i dont know whether i am true or not
BUT imo:
Hot filament is softer than Cold filament, just like a solid wax and melting wax
that it have a higher chance to deform than a cold filament as it is softer
while cold filament is a solid
but i havnt burnt any bulb with G2 yet, maybe due to shock absorption by the body


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## Chrontius (Jul 5, 2011)

Pretty good.

I've knocked around my fair share of Surefires while the bulb was cold, and my only bulb ever blown in the course of normal use was a well-used P61 flashed by a hot-off-the-charger B65


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## angelofwar (Jul 5, 2011)

Chrontius said:


> Pretty good.
> 
> I've knocked around my fair share of Surefires while the bulb was cold, and my only bulb ever blown in the course of normal use was a well-used P61 flashed by a hot-off-the-charger B65


 
Actually, P61's (for what ever reason) have been known to consistenly go "poof" on the B65. I couldn't beleive it when I read it either, but it's well documented. Do a search for "P61 B65", plenty of reading going back quite a few years.


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## Double_A (Jul 6, 2011)

Many moons ago I had the 500l lamp on my M6 explode about 10 mins after power-up. SF got a batch of bad ones, they had to replace the whole head as glass had coated the reflector. That is why I have a gray HA body and a blk head.


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## maxspeeds (Jul 6, 2011)

Double_A said:


> Many moons ago I had the 500l lamp on my M6 explode about 10 mins after power-up. SF got a batch of bad ones, they had to replace the whole head as glass had coated the reflector. That is why I have a gray HA body and a blk head.


 
I don't think I've ever seen a black M6/KT4 head. Do you mind sharing a pic with us? I wonder if it's type II or type III coating?


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## HotWire (Jul 6, 2011)

I have never had a Surefire bulb break because of impact. I have, however, instaflashed my share of bulbs from using the wrong battery. Since then I've learned to search CPFs for proper bulb/battery combination. No recent instaflashes! Surefire makes good equipment.


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## ebow86 (Jul 6, 2011)

maxspeeds said:


> I don't think I've ever seen a black M6/KT4 head. Do you mind sharing a pic with us? I wonder if it's type II or type III coating?


 
It isn't black, sometimes surefire HAIII is a very dark grey that can sometimes appear black.


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## jh333233 (Jul 6, 2011)

seems KT4 are only available in gray, HAIII, noted by SF
http://www.surefire.com/KT4-HA-TurboHead-Conversion
btw, imo i never think my HA3 C2 appears black


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## ebow86 (Jul 6, 2011)

jh333233 said:


> seems KT4 are only available in gray, HAIII, noted by SF
> http://www.surefire.com/KT4-HA-TurboHead-Conversion
> btw, imo i never think my HA3 C2 appears black



Surefire's shade of HAIII changes from batch to batch over the years. I have seen some lights that are natural HAIII that under certain lighting you could swear are black, but their not.


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## Size15's (Jul 7, 2011)

Just because I'm pedant and like banging my head against walls...

The KT4 is NOT a TurboHead.

The KT4 is a 'conversion' kit. It is "Kit, TurboHead, No.4". The KT4 TurboHead conversion kit features the Millennium TurboHead and the MN15 & MN16 Lamp Assemblies. The KT4 is ONLY for three-SF123A Millennium Series models such as the M3, M500A and M900A.

As for black Millennium TurboHeads...
When the Millennium Series forend WeaponLights were first introduced they were black rather than natural HA.
If this link works - here is a very old photo

The M3 and M6 proto-types were also black:


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## ebow86 (Jul 7, 2011)

Al, those bodies look like typical type III but the bezel of the M2 looks awful shiny and purplish almost like its typeII. Maybe its just the lighting.


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## Size15's (Jul 7, 2011)

Happy to debate which parts are type II vs HA but its all Black. No question.


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## ebow86 (Jul 7, 2011)

Size15's said:


> Happy to debate which parts are type II vs HA but its all Black. No question.


 
No debate here I take what you say as gospel.


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## ampdude (Jul 8, 2011)

The Surefire incan lamps are pretty tough for high output bulbs. I don't worry too much about burning them out under normal use, and I try not to beat them up too much when they are on, but I've never destroyed one under normal use.


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## yellow (Jul 8, 2011)

ampdude said:


> burning them out under normal use


so, not killing the bulb/LA from impact, but just having the bulb  from normal use?
Then You simply seem not to use the lights on a regular basis.


iirc the normal lifetime (for the "normal bulbs) is guaranteed like something "about 20 hrs", yes?
On my 6R and the 9Ns, I would give the ones I used a good 80-100 hours, but not longer. 
And this for most every bulb in 10-15 years of use ...


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## ebow86 (Jul 8, 2011)

yellow said:


> so, not killing the bulb/LA from impact, but just having the bulb  from normal use?
> Then You simply seem not to use the lights on a regular basis.
> 
> 
> ...


 
There is no "gurantee" from any manufacturer when it comes to a bulbs lifespan. There are many variables when it comes to how long a bulb will last. I feel it's safe to say that generally speaking, surefire lamps tend to last between 20 to 40hrs on average, depending on the bulb in question and other factors.


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## Darien (Jul 8, 2011)

The M3 and M6 proto-types were also black:



[/QUOTE]

 Type II or HA who cares, I wish they would make a few more of them just like those. Thanks for sharing! Never knew the 3 was a 1 and 6 a 2. 

Darien


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## Retinator (Jul 8, 2011)

I've been using my P60'd G2's for a little over 2 years, and blew my first bulb a couple of months ago.

Before it's death, it's been dropped, once into a spray of liquid propane while filling a tank in near 0-visibility (spit valve).

They've been kicked, rolled and all sorts of things.

Near it's death, the beam went weird (out of alignment filiment), and was very blotchy, shortly after, on the same day, it blew.
But it lasted around 2 years, eating a set of cells once a month on average.

I'd say it did pretty good.


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## sween1911 (Jul 22, 2011)

Size15's said:


> Just because I'm pedant and like banging my head against walls...
> 
> The KT4 is NOT a TurboHead.
> 
> ...


 
WOW! Those are nice! And you do see them black in the old weaponlight pics! I've seen other pics with those pieces in the same color.

Many times, I've referred to the Millenium Turbohead as the KT4.  Mea Culpa, it won't happen again!

I've been pretty rough on my SF's and haven't yet seen a lamp blow from impact. At some point, I had a P60 stop working, but I don't recall it being immediately after an impact.


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## h2xblive (Jul 26, 2011)

I've never had a SureFire light die on me or blow when dropped, but I don't use SureFire incandescent much. I did drop a first generation G2 onto carpet from about 5' up and the beam ended up slightly distorted, ie had ring artifacts.


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## Double_A (Aug 4, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> It isn't black, sometimes surefire HAIII is a very dark grey that can sometimes appear black.


 
It's black, not very dark grey. I've got pictures but can't post directly here I guess? They have to be linked?

Back on topic I bought ten E2e's for my guys and the guys at the factory. In the 4+ years I worked there after I purchased them, two lamps were replaced. IIRC both were from the same guy, who dropped them.

If somebody wants to shoot me a pm and can post on their site for me I'll send them the pictures. But they look just like Size15 posted. This was Dec 2000. I always assumed the head was off a weapons light as the sent me the head the same day I called and received it the following day. My M6 Millennium is serial #A000348


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## jh333233 (Aug 5, 2011)

They are extremely tough, even EMP couldnt fry em 
Best choice for Post-nuke survival


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## ebow86 (Aug 9, 2011)

Double_A said:


> It's black, not very dark grey. I've got pictures but can't post directly here I guess? They have to be linked?
> 
> Back on topic I bought ten E2e's for my guys and the guys at the factory. In the 4+ years I worked there after I purchased them, two lamps were replaced. IIRC both were from the same guy, who dropped them.
> 
> If somebody wants to shoot me a pm and can post on their site for me I'll send them the pictures. But they look just like Size15 posted. This was Dec 2000. I always assumed the head was off a weapons light as the sent me the head the same day I called and received it the following day. My M6 Millennium is serial #A000348


 
Mmm, I guess the black bezels are quite rare. There is however, certain batches of Natural HA grey that's so dark you could swear it's black., which I incorrectly figured was the case here.


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## ampdude (Aug 9, 2011)

I once dropped an MN03 from about three feet onto a hard shelf, it bounced and then it landed on the carpet. Worked fine afterwards. There are some touchier bulbs something like that would destroy, though for the most part bulbs are fairly shock proof when not running.


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## River17 (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't have much experience with the abuse of a _variety _of SF incans, but the E2E that I often carry has been dropped anywhere between 2 and 12 feet onto all kinds of hard surfaces quite a number of times and I have yet to see any damage to the bulb... or any serious harm to the light itself, for that matter.

I have always been a WARM-blooded (get it? warm? har har...) incan guy at heart, but over the last year or so I - like so many before me - have slowly succumbed to the siren call of LEDs and their numerous fancy qualities. I will admit that I now EDC an E1L and use a variety LEDs for most utility purposes. But for the longest time I carried one of my 10 or so 6Ps everywhere I went... always that same one. Now, if that light were my child I would have long ago been sent away for the absurdly harsh abuse I've put it through. With all the drops, bangs, scrapes, dunkings, and even the running-over or two that my 6P has been through it has yet to fail me a single time. I've done everything short of _intentionally _attempting to destroy it, and have never had the slightest problem with lamp durability (or lack thereof). I am truly proud to own a 6P with that beauuuutiful "crossed silver/gray" worn look, and even more proud that every bit of worn finish was the result of my demanding use of it and its subsequent refusal to let me down.

I'm sure however that one could have a very tough lamp but a drop at just the right angle/height/surface and the thing would break into a million pieces. I'm sure too that there is the occasional "glitch" in the manufacturing process - it happens to even the best and most careful of manufacturers - that results in a poorly-tempered lamp that is just _asking _to be broken. I am very thankful however that I have yet to experience it for myself... perhaps that is from a combination of good luck and good lamps, but hey I'll take it!


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