# Bin Coding: Color, Flux and Vf Charts and Links for Popular White LEDs



## DFiorentino

http://sites.google.com/site/kineticparadox/LED-Bin-Coding-Charts

I was tired of looking up these charts online or in pdf format, so I put these charts together. 

Enjoy...

-DF






Below are links to the manufacturer web pages that you can find more detailed information as well as other datasheets relating to each product. 

Technical & Manufacturer Links:

ANSI C78.377-2008

Bridgelux LED Arrays

Luminus PhlatLight

 Philips Lumileds

Cree XLamp

SSC Acriche

SSC Z-Power

Osram


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## evan9162

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

your "new luxeon" link points to the cree image.


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

 

Thanks for noticing...all fixed now. 

-DF


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## 2xTrinity

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

hahaha... the bin on the Seoul chart closest to natural sunlight (warmest tint on the blackbody curve -- probably around 5000K) is called SUN


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## Long John

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

:goodjob:, much more easier, DF 

Best regards

____
Tom


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## jumpstat

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Thanks for the info.....cheers


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## NeoteriX

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Which Cree bin do the Fenix's carry.


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## LITEmania

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

:goodjob::goodjob::goodjob:


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## JanCPF

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Excelent! This should be a sticky.


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Flux and Vf data added for one stop shopping. 

-DF


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## EngrPaul

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

***Added to FAVORITES***


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## FlashCrazy

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Definitely needs to be a sticky! Great work! :goodjob:


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## Rob187

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

One of the most useful reference posts ever! Thanks.


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## Norm

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



FlashCrazy said:


> Definitely needs to be a sticky! Great work! :goodjob:


+1


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Luxeon Rebel data added...


-DF


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## kungfufyter

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

thanks for the great info!

errr...n00b question here: why do the charts for the cree XRE have 2 letter bins (W + another letter), but all manufacturers refer to T-bin or U-bin?


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## johnny13oi

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

What are the Vf of the osram ostars? I tried searching on google but could not find the answer .. thanks


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## SQ40

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



FlashCrazy said:


> Definitely needs to be a sticky! Great work! :goodjob:


 
+1 and Updated as new stuff comes out..


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



kungfufyter said:


> thanks for the great info!
> 
> errr...n00b question here: why do the charts for the cree XRE have 2 letter bins (W + another letter), but all manufacturers refer to T-bin or U-bin?



I think you might be mixing color coding with luminous flux coding. I'm guessing you mean something like a SSC P4 U-bin which would be equivalent to a Q2 or Q3 Cree XR-E in luminous flux.

-DF


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



johnny13oi said:


> What are the Vf of the osram ostars? I tried searching on google but could not find the answer .. thanks



I've searched as well and it doesn't seem like the Ostars are binned by Vf. :shrug: I've updated above with the datasheet Vf info for both XR-E and Ostar.

I'll try and keep it updated. 

-DF


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## LED_Thrift

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



FlashCrazy said:


> Definitely needs to be a sticky! Great work! :goodjob:


 
+1

This is GREAT info, and all in one place. Thank You, Thank You, Thank You 
Really helpful. 

Thrifty


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## greenLED

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Wow, make this a sticky, please!!

:twothumbs and :thanks: for the hard work on these!


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## LED_Thrift

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



greenLED said:


> Wow, make this a sticky, please!!


 
*+1 * for making this a sticky


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## yellow

grat tread,
great info
--> sticky, 2


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## coyote

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

great thread. many thnx!

yes to sticky.


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## taschenlampe

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Great idea! Thank you! :thumbsup:

There is a minor error in the flux bin list of the Rebel M and N bin – 
10.0 should be 100.0 .


Thanks again
tl


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## redlaw55

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Disabled ActiveX and saved the photos.

Thank you.


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



taschenlampe said:


> There is a minor error in the flux bin list of the Rebel M and N bin –
> 10.0 should be 100.0 .



 DOH!

Fixed and added some upcoming XR-E bins.

-DF


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## Kiessling

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

GOOD work there !!! :thumbsup:
Thanx for doing this. I especially like the combined bin pic of all the LEDs of interest to us. Great reference.

bernie


P.S.: moved to the right forum .. this thread needs to be found


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## tnuckels

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Let me also thank you for corralling this information in one place. Now, if I was just up to the task of truly understanding it all … so much homework to do …

_My question regards an update to my Pelican 2390 I’m considering. Not knowing the bin or current the LuxIII inside the Pelican is running at, how safe am I to assume replacing it with one of the P4s that Fred is offering (V, W, or X) will be worth my efforts? _

_While the process is intriguing, I want to notice an improvement at the end of the day._

*Never mind, Fred set me straight, as I was confusing color bins with fulx bins. It's all alphabet soup from here ...*


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## Wok

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Di,

Thanks for this.

*Open Request*: Does anyone have data for Cree Q2/Q5 relating emitter current Vs efficiency?...or a formula I can utilise?

I am trying to find a 'sweet spot' to maximise output for a given heatsink....multiple emitters is not an issue.

TIA.......eng hoe


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## Darell

*Re: Bin Coding Color Charts (Luxeon, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



JanCPF said:


> Excelent! This should be a sticky.



Agreed! It is now.


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## kurni

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

I hope it's not too late to thank you.


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## koala

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

I have loaded this post numerous times, all I can say is Thank You and Good Job!


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## taschenlampe

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



koala said:


> I have loaded this post numerous times, all I can say is Thank You and Good Job!


 
+1 :thumbsup:

Would be nice to add the Luxeon K2 with TFFC White bin structure if possible.

Thanks again
tl

Edit: Could it be that it is the same as Luxeon I, III, V (Current)?


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

I'll see if I can find some time this weekend and make some updates. I'm planning on taking the old Luxeon overlay plot off the charts since I don't think it's really needed anymore.

-DF


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## J.D.

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

really great info - thanks a lot :twothumbs


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Color charts updated.

Flux and Vf chart will be updated next...

-DF


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Another chart added. Additionally, all charts updated again with BBL and CCT lines.

Flux and Vf posted.

More to come later when I get some more "free" time.

-DF


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## donn_

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

This is a question, but I have a question on how to determine the 2-letter bin of an Ostar, out of its entire number.

LE UW E3B-PZQZ-4C8F is what's on the label from Digikey.


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## kurni

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxI/III/V/K2/Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4/Acriche, Os*

Would someone clarify the labelling for SSC P4 please? I can see the compartments, but no labels.

Many thanks,
Kurni


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



donn_ said:


> This is a question, but I have a question on how to determine the 2-letter bin of an Ostar, out of its entire number.
> 
> LE UW E3B-PZQZ-4C8F is what's on the label from Digikey.




From page 2 of OSTAR datasheet: 


Ordering Information said:


> _Note:The above Type Numbers represent the order groups which include only a few brightness groups (see *page 6* for explanation). Only one group will be shipped in each packing unit (there will be no mixing of two groups in each packing unit). E.g. LE UW E3B-PZQZ-4C8F means that only one group PZ, QX, QY or QZ will be shippable for any one packing unit.
> In order to ensure availability, single brightness groups will not be orderable.
> 
> In a similar manner for colors where chromaticity coordinate groups are measured and binned, single chromaticity coordinate groups will be shipped in any one packing unit . E.g. LE UW E3B-PZQZ-4C8F means that only 1 chromaticity coordinate group -4C to -8F will be shippable (see *page 5* for explanation).
> In order to ensure availability, single chromaticity coordinate groups will not be orderable._



From Page 6 of the OSTAR datasheet:


Brightness Groups said:


> _Note:The standard shipping format for serial types includes a family group of only a few individual brightness groups. Individual brightness groups cannot be ordered._



Summary: What you receive will be luck of the draw, according to what Digikey has in stock.

-DF


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxI/III/V/K2/Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4/Acriche, Os*



kurni said:


> Would someone clarify the labelling for SSC P4 please? I can see the compartments, but no labels.
> 
> Many thanks,
> Kurni



Oops, my fault.  Should be fixed now. Thanks.

-DF


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## DFiorentino

*Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Ostar)*

Some charts altered for title formating. New Ostar chart added. Flux and Vf charts updated. Web links also added at the bottom of the first post.

-DF


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Thanks Bernie! 

:thumbsup:

-DF


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## LED Zeppelin

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Thanks for this thread DF!


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## LED-holic

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Some of the images are no longer displaying. Imageshack is not the most reliable image hosting service.

Perhaps the images could be hosted on a more reliable service / servers.


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*



LED-holic said:


> Some of the images are no longer displaying. Imageshack is not the most reliable image hosting service.
> 
> Perhaps the images could be hosted on a more reliable service / servers.



Any recommendations? I've only ever used Imageshack, but admit that it does tax the nerves from time to time.

-DF


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## Calina

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

I think you have to connect to your account from time to time to keep it alive.


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## Lite_me

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

I've had my uploaded pics 'disappear' for a period of time at Imageshack but always return when checked sometime later. :thinking:


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*



Lite_me said:


> I've had my uploaded pics 'disappear' for a period of time at Imageshack but always return when checked sometime later. :thinking:



Yep, same thing I experience. I guess just server overload at that time. :shrug:

-DF


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## jmizzlefoshizzle

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Can you give me a simplified order of brightness in general for the various types of LED's. 123456 and so on? I cant understand all of the charts and numbers. I'm a newbie to the world of light. Thanks:twothumbs


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## Marduke

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*



jmizzlefoshizzle said:


> Can you give me a simplified order of brightness in general for the various types of LED's. 123456 and so on? I cant understand all of the charts and numbers. I'm a newbie to the world of light. Thanks:twothumbs



They have a pretty good rundown in the Welcome Mat.

In short, the Cree XR-E series, the Luxeon Rebel series, and the Seoul SemiConductor (SSC) P4 series are the common, higher efficiency, high power LED's.


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*



jmizzlefoshizzle said:


> Can you give me a simplified order of brightness in general for the various types of LED's. 123456 and so on? I cant understand all of the charts and numbers. I'm a newbie to the world of light. Thanks:twothumbs



Unfortunately, it's not as simple as listing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...100,000. However, once you get a grasp of madness behind binning and the codes each manufacturer uses, the "flux" chart in post #1 will pretty much answer your question. 

If I get some free time in the next couple weeks, I'll try to update the charts again...

-DF


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## X_Marine

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Well I have most saved and printed and after a cpl years it is actually making more sense.

Now I need to do a simple color bar in PS with a vague ref to Cool/Neutral/Warm and ask you to label it for me. 
That gets used loosely and sometimes in contradiction I believe simply from a lack of understanding. It always seems backward to me.

Ok I gave it a stab in my delirious state.. lol







Let me if this is close and I'll do a better ver and post to PhotoBucket.

Thanks again for putting this together, excellent reference. :thumbsup:
X/BillyD..


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## kurni

*Sunlight vs. Cree 5A Q2 vs. RB100*

*Ignore the post below the red line*

I have just overloaded myself with CRI thread, and I know now that my findings and photos were inaccurate. I am leaving them here however to show you where _*not*_ to go, as well as raising the topic because it is relevant. I do not want to discuss CRI here because this thread is not about CRI.


 I tried to argue that Cree bins between 3A and 5A would provide near-perfect colour rendition. Although I didn't utter the term "colour rendition", that was what I actually meant. I have learnt from the thread that my argument was false.
I relied on photos to support my argument. I have learnt from the thread this method was misleading.
I relied on 1 object with a very limited colour range to deduce the quality of various lights (5A, sunlight, RB100). I have learnt that this method was false. Just now I used different objects and deduced different conclusions.
 The only argument that I am making right now is that my previous argument is false. I cannot put forward any other arguments because CRI is too complex for me to understand; at least for now.

Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead any of you; I didn't know any better.

========================

I don't know what bin my P2D RB100 is; but my Dereelight is 5A Q2

Dereelight, sunlight, RB100





Underexposed





Comparison





To my surprise sunlight has more red than 5A or sunlight has less green than 5A. Obviously sunlight has more blue than 5A; this finding shifted my preference from warm white to natural white. Originally I though 5A is not as warm as sunlight but apparently it's too warm.

Do you think Cree 3A would be closer to sunlight?

PS: it's amazing how far the sun is without any reflector; when compared to _what-we-thought-to-be-the-great-LED-technology_ with smooth reflector at around 10-20cm from the object.

Many thanks,
Kurni


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## MSI

*Re: Sunlight vs. Cree 5A Q2 vs. RB100*

Thanks for the great shots Kurni!!


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## Burgess

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Very interesting and helpful thread.


Thank you to everyone for your time and efforts.


:twothumbs


:goodjob:
_


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## kurni

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

I just fixed post 56 because it was wrong.


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## jashhash

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

We all know that LED efficiency is decreased as drive current is increased. The fact that All these LED manufacturers bin their LED's at different driving currents means the reported efficiency data is incomparable from one LED to the next. In an ideal situation all LED's should recieve an efficiency calculation at a specified current like 100mA for example.


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## eangler

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

This is an excellent post. Very useful for noobies like me for sure. I wonder if you have the two spreadsheet like files in excel or csv format or something like that? I would like to build my own database and it would save me some typing.

Thanks.


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## bshanahan14rulz

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

great post, sticky vote.


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## milkyspit

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

DiFiorentino, any chance you could add the Luminus Phlatlight bins as well as the latest tint binning to come from Cree for the XP-G product line?

:bow: :bow:


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## Gryloc

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

DFiorentino,

I love this thread (so useful and time saving). You saved me from searching through the many pdf datasheets of different brands and types on the web. 

Sorry to bug you, but could you please repair or re-post some of the pictures in your main post. The thumbnails (and the links) are not showing up. Thanks, and keep up the great work! :twothumbs

-Tony


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Hmm, been a little while since I posted or even logged on for that matter. 

I'll see what's up with the links and whatnot this weekend. Work and migraines are keeping me down at the moment.

-DF


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## Blindasabat

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Hope you feel better soon. Take care of yourself!


DFiorentino said:


> I'll see what's up with the links and whatnot this weekend. Work and migraines are keeping me down at the moment.
> 
> -DF


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

OK, this weekend didn't happen as I intended as I worked straight through it. But, while I'm at it, is there any other LED bins people would like me to add/update? I heard a request for Luminus. Any others?

-DF


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## vestureofblood

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Let me start by saying this is a useful thread I hit it often. Right now I seem to be having some trouble with a couple of the pics though. The cree cool white and a couple of others. They only show a red X on my screen and when I click all that appears is the image shack home page, no picture.


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Fixed some of the links, added some links, updated the flux and vf charts. I'm still trying to free up some time to finish the remaining bin charts. 

-DF


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## vestureofblood

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts, Links (Luxeon, XLamp, SSC Z-Power/Acriche, Os*

Thanks for the update. I use this thread often. I have never been able to find color charts with the actual colors in them anywhere else.


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## DFiorentino

Please note the change in thread title. 

I'm working on the remaining charts right now. 

-DF


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## DFiorentino

Okie Dokie, after inputting some 500+ coordinates, I think I'm done for the day. The ANSI and MPL-EZW/MC-E charts are up with some other tidbits and corrections added. Next up (I have no idea when), Luminus charts...

-DF


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## Al Combs

Thank you and great work you've done over the years on your LED Bin Coding thread. +1 to vestureofblood's comments about the usefulness of this thread. I refer to it constantly as well.:thumbsup: Much more useful than the b&w cie charts you can download from the LED manufacturers. Can't wait to see the ones for Luminus.

I did notice one thing. The chart for "Osram Ostar (LE W Exx)" is a duplication of the "Ostar (LE CW Exxx) (Warm White)" chart. I paged through the list on imageshack but could only find a preliminary version of it overlaid on an old style Luxeon chart. I still have the original one I downloaded from this thread with the overlaid color temperature index markers if you need it.


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## DFiorentino

Fixed the Ostar link. I'm not sure why Imageshack is randomly dumping my pics... :shrug:


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## THE_dAY

Just wanted to give my thanks!

Really appreciate the hard work you've done to bring all this valuable information together in one place!


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## DFiorentino

Luminus chart added...

-DF


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## DFiorentino

Some more corrections made and Bridglux LED Array data posted.

OK, I think I'm done for a little while... :sweat:

-DF


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## baterija

DFiorentino said:


> Some more corrections made and Bridglux LED Array data posted.



Many thanks for the work on one of my most references threads. lovecpf


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## rayman

This charts are really great. I use them all the time when buying new emitters. Great work, very useful :twothumbs.

rayman


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## Midnight Oil

I posted the following in a thread in the General Flashlight Discussion section, but it seems the thread has not been active for a while, so I thought I reproduce it here so I can be educated. My post is regarding member Illum's earlier post... 

Illum, 

I'm new to led flashlights. I just received my ET P100A2 NW and I like it very much; it's a great deal for the price. Despite my newly given "enlightened" status, I'm still very much in the dark. I have several questions, after reading your post with the pictures showing different emitters coated with different amount of yellow phosphor.

1. What other parameters beside the amount of yellow phosphor determine the color bin and thus the tint of a led? If the amount of yellow phosphor is the only factor that determines its tint, why are the NW and WW leds usually of a lower flux bin compared to their cool counterparts? Why don't one get say a XP-E R2 NW or WW just by slapping more yellow phosphor onto an otherwise CW led? Or is it that the very process of putting on more phosphor decreases the light output of the led, lowers its efficienty, and thus bump down its flux bin?

2. For mid-range lights (talking about cost) , why are the NW and WW leds usually one or even two flux bins lower than the CW leds? Is it because there is less demand for them as they don't appear to be as bright?

3. What is it about the led manufacturing process that is so variable that there is a color bin lottery? Why don't manufacturers just make and sell them in separate color bin batches?

Thanks for your time.


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## eatkabab

excellent work! I thank you very much for this condensed information.


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## flashflood

Just discovered this wonderful thread.

Question: is there any good way to determine the tint of a light you already have? I have lights of many different tints, and I'd like to "bin" them to quantify which tints I like. It seems like just eyeballing it -- that is, comparing what the light looks like shining on the wall to the various squares on the ANSI tint chart on my computer screen -- wouldn't be very accurate.

Any suggestions for how to do better?


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## yellow

I think - with our eyes - it not possibe to do any more than put them into classes:

cold - neutral - warm


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## robrick

When selecting paint colors for interiors, we select them under the light that will be used. Different colors and different paint formulas are affected differently. Two paint chips of the same colar made by two different companies may look the same under one light source, and different under another light source. At night are we looking for color accuracy, or max light for enhanced vision?


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## DFiorentino

robrick said:


> At night are we looking for color accuracy, or max light for enhanced vision?



You tell me. Different applications require different tools. Given today's technology you'll have to pick between max lumen output or optimal color rendition. I'm highly indecisive which is why I'm a neutral LED fan and split the difference.  Seriously though, I always make this recommendation to friends: going the distance = max lumens/cool, need to see what is in front of you = max color rendition/warm, don't want to pick sides = Switzerland/neutral. (No disrespect meant to the Swiss.)

-DF


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## fishnugget

This is very helpful as I am currently trying to find the difference between Cool White and Neutral White LEDS.


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## aae55555

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Thanks, great thread this!! +1 Vote for sticky


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Does anyone care about/use the Flux/Vf charts anymore? They're currently not up to date and I was just wondering if I should go ahead and update them (they're getting a bit cluttered) or just remove them. Anything else I should do/add/update/modify/improve...?

-DF


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## LEDAdd1ct

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

I care! Please don't remove them. If you want to organize them or update, cool, but I find this is a resource I come back to now and again.


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



LEDAdd1ct said:


> I care! Please don't remove them. If you want to organize them or update, cool, but I find this is a resource I come back too now and again.



Okie dokie. I'll get them updated in the next day or so...

-DF


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## Calina

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Thank you.


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## Curt R

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Yes to the update. The charts are very important. 
THANK YOU!

Curt


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## kurni

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



DFiorentino said:


> Does anyone care about/use the Flux/Vf charts anymore? They're currently not up to date and I was just wondering if I should go ahead and update them (they're getting a bit cluttered) or just remove them. Anything else I should do/add/update/modify/improve...?
> 
> -DF


 
I still refer to it from time to time  Thanks for the post.


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## THE_dAY

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



DFiorentino said:


> Okie dokie. I'll get them updated in the next day or so...
> 
> -DF


 
Thank you very much for your hard work, it is a great reference!


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## DFiorentino

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

So timing with me is kinda reverse Star Trek code...hours become days and days become weeks.  (You're a fan if you know immediately which movie I'm referring to.)

Flux and Vf charts somewhat updated. Philips newer Luxeon product line, Bridgelux Arrays and some of the newer SSC Acriches use part numbering to distinguish their bin structure. I wasn't about to copy every part number as it's just easier to go straight to the PDF datasheets off the manufacturers website (manufacturers links provided in the first post). Also, it seems that SSC has finally adopted ANSI tint bin structure, but of course they have to use they're own coding. I'll make up some new color charts when I get a chance. They're kind of a pain in the butt and they give me headaches from staring at all those stupid coordinates, so it will probably be next week sometime. (Which might mean next month.)

-DF


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## brted

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*

Just in case you want to do even more work, it looks like Osram is easing into ANSI as well. They have diced and sliced the ANSI quadrangles with their own codes, at least for cool (ultra) and warm white golden dragons. 

Is Philips even producing anything usable in flashlights anymore?

I appreciate what you're doing. Your Cree tint chart is all over the internet. I don't know what I could do to help, but if copying the coordinates to a spreadsheet helps, I could give that a shot.


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## DFiorentino

Trying something new...

http://sites.google.com/site/kineticparadox/LED-Bin-Coding-Charts

I've got my existing charts uploaded. Next up is my CBA testing. Then I'll work back to the binning charts to add and/or update.

-DF


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## Al Combs

*Re: Bin Coding: Color, Flux, Vf Charts (LuxeonI-III- V-Rebel, XR-E, SSC P4, Ostar)*



DFiorentino said:


> So timing with me is kinda reverse Star Trek code...hours become days and days become weeks.  (You're a fan if you know immediately which movie I'm referring to.)
> 
> -DF


That's easy, ST-II: The Wrath of Kahn. My personal favorite from the movie series. Not counting the newer Chris Pine prequel which was also great.



DFiorentino said:


> Trying something new...
> 
> http://sites.google.com/site/kineticparadox/LED-Bin-Coding-Charts
> 
> I've got my existing charts uploaded. Next up is my CBA testing. Then I'll work back to the binning charts to add and/or update.
> 
> -DF


I wanted to say thanks for the CBA battery tests. This is a much needed resource that no one else has done since SilverFox. I still refer to his NiMH shootout all the time. But it's nice to see some more current batteries in the mix. Many thanks!:twothumbs

I'm a little surprised this hasn't generated more interest. I'm guessing people just aren't aware of its existence, yet. I looked for it over in the electronics and battery forum and didn't see it. Then I checked 'latest started threads' in your profile and there it was. A five day old post isn't good enough to be on the first page of threads I guess. I hope they make it a sticky over in the battery forum so people will see it.


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## yellow

.

I constantly keep coming back to this thread, ...
... now being forced to search for it in unforgiven's sticky thread at the beginning of that sub-forum... 

could this thread not be made sticky, please?

+ DFiorentino, could You try to keep it updated also?


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## uk_caver

I find the image below quite useful, given that different CREE LEDs still get rated in different colour schemes, for things such as trying to pair an XP-E and an XP-G so they're close enough to blend nicely.
It's an overlay image of the two different binning schemes for cool white, with the images scaled so that the grid lines match up accurately (though the color temperature lines don't match perfectly).


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## Calina

I can't see anything.


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## uk_caver

Any better now (different name, JPG rather than GIF, added 'www.' to path in link)?

The first image worked fine for me, so I can't easily work out what the problem was.


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## Calina

Yes, I see it now. Thank you.


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## holygeez03

Some of the images can't be found for me... are others experiencing any problems? If so, can someone re-post them on a different image hosting site and re-link?

Thanks.


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## uk_caver

_For me, at the moment,_ the bridgelux cool+neutral images from post #1 seem absent (without error messages/images), and it's odd that the html source seems to include two images for each of those empty positions.
Mind you, the source also has two images referenced for xlamp cool white but only one visible (_to me, at the moment_).


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## DFiorentino

After stepping aside for awhile I see that both Imageshack and Google are having issues saving my images. It's on my to do list to at least restore what I had in both instances. As for updating, I'll see. I'm getting life back under control, but my schedule is fluctuating between days and nights currently.


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## jimmy5

mkay, i'm definitely missing something... where does the name ssc-p7 derives from? in a Flux chart above, the P letter somehow only has 32 lumens?


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