# Milky Candle Pilot Run... (MC2 Teaser Photos)



## milkyspit (Nov 12, 2003)

*VERY IMPORTANT UPDATE 2/23/2005!* I'm locking this thread since it's getting pretty long. *From this point forward, you can follow the MC2 and Milky Tester in the new thread I've started over here. Thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif*

*Update 9/8/2004:* I just posted a couple teaser photos of the MC2. They're at the bottom of the thread. (Well, at least they are for now!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

As things progress, I'll eventually open a new thread specifically for the MC2. When that happens, I'll announce it in THIS thread so anyone tracking this one will be aware of the new one. Until then, feel free to continue posting here! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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*Milky Candle Pilot Run... (Original Post)*

Q: Can anyone guess what this is? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
A: The *Milky Candle*! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Top view:






Side view:





Evolution:





*Some Quick Specs:*
_(summarized from posts lower in the thread)_

Three brightness settings...

"High" runs at roughly Arc-AAA brightness for 43 hours on fresh cells.

"Medium" runs just bright enough to see everything in an average-sized room for 166 hours on fresh cells.

"Nightlight" mode runs bright enough to see everything in at least a 6 foot radius with dark-adapted eyes, for 1000 hours on fresh cells.

All three levels are current regulated, meaning equal brightness for pretty much the entire runtime. As the batteries reach the end of their service life, the Milky Candle drops into direct drive mode, meaning several more hours of gradually diminishing light. (Maybe dozens of hours in nightlight mode.)

Tailcap...

Like a SureFire tactical switch. Twist on, twist off, press for momentary activation. No lockout mode, but switch is inset to minimize accidental activation.

Ability to drain spent 123 cells...

The Milky Candle can run cells that don't even light up the SureFire Hurricane Lamp 12B. Once a pair of cells can no longer run in the Milky Candle at any brightness level, at least one is likely to measure flash amps of 0.01A or less.

Credits...

I've spoken with a number of people over the past few months, and their ideas helped gel the details of the Milky Candle as it presently exists. Too numerous to list, really, but you folks know who you are. Refinement of the Milky Candle will continue based on feedback from the pilot run. Thanks guys!

Doug Owen answered the call for a super efficient regulation circuit meeting particular benchmarks of brightness and runtime. He's designed a great "engine" for the Candle while paying attention to keeping it affordable. He's also been a mentor for me on production issues... no, more like a father... and as with all father-son relationships, sometimes he pisses me off. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif But he's brutally honest and deserves a great deal of credit for his efforts.

_The story continues. More details throughout the thread in subsequent posts._


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## shiftd (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

WOOOW /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Nice, neat and clean /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

what is it called again??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
it is the milky.... (dunno the rest /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) !!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Sigman (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Alrighty...you've finished/perfected the candle!! Congrats, could be a great emergency light...need to seal up that circuit though, eh? I know, I didn't need to say that...gonna sell them? How much? Runtime? Switch? Different colors available? Looks rugged, I like the PVC!

Where's that original thread...off to look...


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## Rothrandir (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

very nice! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

need to start making a couple hosts... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
these could make *excellent* gifts! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Marked (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

It's a gAs?


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## MR Bulk (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Heh heh, very nice Scott, if I were to buy one I would only have to get one a those cheep plastic flame-shaped frosted globes to fit over it, you know, to "complete" the look. Glad to see it come to fruition.

In fact once price is announced I am probably in for a couple.


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## hotbeam (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Introducing... the long awaited.... :hold_breath:... *MilkyCandle* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. More details please. Paypal on the ready /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## silvercloud (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Nice work Scott. Perfect for the Holidays. They would work great as lights for the window sills, without the cords.


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## Steelwolf (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Pipe bomb with a warning LED!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Well done Scott. Nice and neat. Although I must ask where you managed to find those screw-on caps. My local hardware store said no one produced PVC screw-on end caps under 80mm.

Beautiful work. More details please. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## koala (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I like it! Great use of *host* there!


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## yclo (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

It's something similar to this!





Bigger picture

Nothing special on my one though. Just old Arc rev1 circuit and 123.

-YC


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## CiTY (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott, nice job, just in time for Christmas lites in the window, or even neater, replace the led with RGB for the holiday season. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif What are your price points?


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## rodfran (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Looking good! Ready and waiting for more details. Good work, Scott!


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## Zelandeth (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Ohhh....okay, I want one...

Nice to see this project still evolving, has moved on a fair bit since the start hasn't it! 

Oh, and below is the original link that I EVENTUALLY found the other day. Amazing what turns up when you clean up all the random bits of paper floating around ona desk isn't it.

LED DIFFUSER COVERS...FINALLY


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## John Frederick (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

If the price is right I'm in for a few. I'd also be interested in one that I could plug into the wall. My children have an extraordinary ability to break night-light bulbs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
Overall, a great job!


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## LEDependent (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Heyy, I was gonna say pipe bomb...


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Looks GRRRREAT Scott!

Will it suck a 123 pretty much dry?

If so, you know I gotta have one!


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## balticvid (Nov 12, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

OK Scott......we're waiting.......... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif

What is it? 
I'll have to go with a sanitized pipe bomb, with a warning light....and when it start to flicker....


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smoker5.gif


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I know what it is. It is the famous "Milkey Candle". It's mission in life was supposed to be to look cool while milking the last drop of energy out of dead 123s....

If that is still the mission, I WANT!!!!

(will find a way to finance it!!!)


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## milkyspit (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

*PlayboyJoeShmoe* and *hotbeam*, right! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's the... drumroll please...

*"Milky Candle!"* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Yes, Playboy, it will suck a 123 cell completely dry if you let it. Your DMM might not even pick up any energy left in the cell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Details on the way, but first to catch up on some posts...

*Sigman*, thanks for the kind words. Yes, there will be some epoxy potting over the circuit to protect it, but the photos are so much cooler without it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif The potting is also optional (maybe discouraged?) if you're a tinkering type and might want to mod the circuit to use a different LED, tweak the output levels, etc. In that case you'd just have to be more careful with your Candle. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif Other details and photos of the tailcap switch coming in my next post...

*Rothrandir*, I hope you _will_ make some hosts! Let's talk offline about that possibility, sir. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

*Marked*, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

*MR Bulk*, mod away! It's a pilot run... tinkering strongly encouraged. And if you find some great flame tops for the Candle, please share! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

*silvercloud*, we've been using a prototype around here for weeks now as a nightlight in the windowsill next to my 18 month old's bed. Sometimes I take night walks in the backyard. From the darkness of the yard, I can clearly see the tiny through the upstairs window. IMHO it would make a great holiday light, but I'm afraid we can't yet produce the quantities needed to do more than a window or two per person! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

*Steelwolf*, the local hardware superstore has a box full of those couplings. I think they're 3/4 inch inner diameter if I recall correctly? So in metric, that's something like 19-20mm. The whole thing is sold as a unit, and is considered a coupling of some sort. Each endcap has a hole through it as shown in the photo. If you seriously want some, please PM me and I'll send a few your way at cost.

*yclo*, that thing's cool! Yours is kind of like the Milky Candle's short brother after he took steroids and bulked up. Don't blind yourself! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif What type of PVC hardware is that? Never seen that one before.

*CiTY*, anyone getting a Milky Candle has the option of having an RGB LED used in place of the "stock" white one, so long as they're willing to pay the additional expense or provide their own. It also might delay theirs from being built by a little, in order to get the part. BTW, thank you for the compliment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*rodfran*, thanks. You've been a cheerleader for so long, you definitely deserve one. There... the first one's allocated! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

*Zelandeth*, sounds like my desk! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif Interesting link you found, because they look like exactly the same diffuser that will come with the Milky Candle in this run. Take a look...






*John Frederick*, I hope the price is right! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif More on that shortly, so stay tuned. There won't be all that many in the pilot run, though, so you might have to wait longer to get "a few." Sorry, but this one won't plug into the wall unless you buy a wall wart adapter and do a little surgery. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif But as a nightlight it *will* last nearly half a year on one set of batteries, so maybe the plugging in isn't all that important? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

*LEDependent, shiftd, koala, balticvid*, thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


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## NewsFlash (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I hope to get in on this too, at least 1 unit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


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## kitelights (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I want several to give as Christmas gifts.


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## The_LED_Museum (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

And I'll need one to put on my website. That's bound to get a few people asking about (or wanting) them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
As long as you don't mind the 

*USER-MODIFIED AND
HOMEMADE LIGHTS*
_Non-rated informal analysis only_

header displayed above the Milky Candle listing on my left-frame menu after I add it to the page. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## Lux_Luminous (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Nice work! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Add me to the list of future "Milky Candle" owners!

(will there be a special CPF edition?)

PayPal is at the ready . . . 


"Lux"/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


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## MR Bulk (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Hay! I spoke to Milky today and I do think I'm _*in*_ for a couple!!!


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## ufokillerz (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

waiting as well =)


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## Banshee (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I'm in for 2....need something for all these "spent"123's


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## milkyspit (Nov 14, 2003)

*More Specs...*

Okay folks. Here's some more information. First, a look at the tailcap...

Frontal View:






From an Angle:





The tailcap behaves eerily similar to the tactical-style SureFire switches. Twist on, twist off, and while off the metal portion you see can be pressed inward for momentary activation. The switch is inset to minimize accidental activation, although sadly, there is no real "lockout" feature. (Given the long runtime and cool operation, lockout might not be all that important.)

The switch at the head, near the LED, controls brightness. To the left is the medium setting, enough light to dimly illuminate an average-sized room. This is a good setting for extended power outages, as it's a nice combination of just enough brightness with extended runtime. 166 hours on fresh cells.

Moving the level switch all the way to the right (it's a three position switch) activates the high setting, which provides roughly the same amount of light as an Arc-AAA. In a pinch, this setting could be used just as you would a normal flashlight, or in the more typical "candle" application, it will illuminate an average-sized room well enough to see the furniture, faucet, er, toilet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif, or whatever, even if your eyes aren't dark adapted. It would work for mood lighting or a shorter power outage. This setting offers the shortest runtime. 43 hours on fresh cells.

The middle position on the level switch puts the Milky Candle into a nightlight mode. This setting is downright miserly on power consumption, and if you want to suck every last bit of juice from those mostly-spent 123 cells, this setting will do the trick! With dark-adapted eyes you'll be able to see everything in the room in at least a 6 foot radius using the nightlight mode, and it'll keep running for 1000 hours on fresh cells. Put another way, that means 8 hours per night, every night, for four full months and part of a fifth.

For what it's worth, my kids (18 month old and 3.5 year old) use the Milky Candle as their nightlight, and it's still on its first set of batteries.

Regardless of setting, the Milky Candle is *current regulated*, meaning the *brightness level remains constant* for pretty much the entire runtime. At the tail end, when the batteries can no longer drive the chosen level in regulation, the Milky Candle switches to direct drive mode, which means several more hours of diminishing brightness. You might see some mild flickering during the few minutes when the Candle is falling into direct drive.

There's no battery indicator on the Milky Candle, but there *is* a way to get a sense of how much juice the cells have left. If you move the switch from medium to high and the brightness doesn't noticeably increase, that would tell you your cells are pretty much spent. Even then, though, nightlight mode might keep running for dozens of hours. How many dozens? I've never had the patience to find out!

If you run the Milky Candle in this way, high to medium to nightlight, when all is said and done at least one of your cells will be dead as a doornail, barely registering any flash amps at all on a DMM. Mine typically read 0.01A. Maybe lower. As I said, I never had the patience to run 'em all the way dead in nightlight mode!

The bottom endcap unscrews to change the batteries.

In closing for now (more specs to be posted soon), I'll mention an unintentional test we did at our recent NJ PhotonFest 2 ("PF2"). One of the lights on loan from McGizmo had dead batteries, so we changed them, then put the "dead" cells into a SureFire Hurricane Lamp 12B. None of us had ever seen the Hurricane Lamp in action. We positioned the bulb, snapped the lid shut, and... nothing. That was a bummer. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

Then out of curiosity, we took the same cells and put them in the Milky Candle. Bingo! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Not only did they work, but they ran in regulation *at all three output levels*. That seemed a pretty good testimonial for the Milky Candle!


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## milkyspit (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

A couple clarifications...

Earlier I told *CiTY* that an RGB LED like the ones dat2zip sells could be installed in place of the "stock" white Nichia. That MIGHT be true, but I can't verify it without specs for that RGB LED, which so far I haven't been able to find. So for now, please don't count on it.

I also mentioned to *Sigman* that an unpotted board would allow the user to replace the LED. Technically that's true, but I'd discourage the practice, as it's VERY tricky surgery. The bridge that makes positive battery contact lives in that same area, and the chance of destroying LED, board, and/or bridge is high. You know the line... don't try this at home! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

That said, an unpotted board *will* allow some modification to the resistor values, which in turn would cause the Milky Candle to operate at different brightness levels from the "stock" three.


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## 4x4Dragon (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

okay, okay, i think i'll have to have one as well!


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## kitelights (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

I'm very impressed. I've been following this since the beginning with great interest. Having gone through the hurricane here in VA where 90% of the state lost power (1.8 million) and about 50% remained without power for 1 to 2 weeks, I am interested in giving these to family and friends as Christmas gifts. Bad winters here usually mean 1 - 4 days of lost power once or twice a season.

Throw 'em in a drawer. No worrying about cells leaking or going bad for 5 - 10 years! And on medium setting they'll last over 2 weeks on the same set of batteries. Great job!


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

Milkey,

A couple of times now you've typed "batteries" (more than 1?). This might pose a problem if both 'spent' 123s didn't come out of the same light????


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## milkyspit (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

[ QUOTE ]
*PlayboyJoeShmoe said:*
Milkey,

A couple of times now you've typed "batteries" (more than 1?). This might pose a problem if both 'spent' 123s didn't come out of the same light????



[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, Playboy. What tends to happen (even if both cells DID come from the same light) is that one runs down to nothing, and the other still has some life to it. But due to the Vf of the Nichia, by that point current flow will be VERY limited and the Milky Candle won't produce much more than nightlight-level illumination. So there's no danger of any nasty lithium explosions or anything.

What I've done for more than a month now is keep a little bin of partially drained 123 cells. I test each one on my DMM for flash amps... that test only takes a second or so per cell. I write the flash amps "bin code" on the side of each cell with a Sharpie marker. Then, when it's time to reload the Milky Candle (which doesn't happen very often!), I try to choose a pair of cells with similar flash amps. Meanwhile, I test the old cells to see if they're truly dead or not; if one still has some juice left, I mark it as above and put it in the battery bin.

Sorry for the long-winded explanation. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif The short answer would be: no problems! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Doug Owen (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... **SPECS POSTED***

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*

Three brightness settings...

"High" runs at roughly Arc-AAA brightness for 43 hours on fresh cells.

"Medium" runs just bright enough to see everything in an average-sized room for 200 hours on fresh cells.

"Nightlight" mode runs bright enough to see everything in at least a 6 foot radius with dark-adapted eyes, for 1300 hours on fresh cells.



[/ QUOTE ]

While I didn't measure the current on the prototype I sent you, I'm sure of the parts I used. There's some variation between LM334s of course, but I'm using a large batch (meaning they should be fairly close to each other). I just measured 6 other circuits and confirmed the currents are what I designed, a bit over 30 mA on high, 7.6 mA on medium and 1.25 mA on low.

This means the above time estimates are very close to what might expect on high (perhaps a little long?), but overstated for medium (by say 15%) and very over stated for low (maybe 30%?).

You'll recall the target for low was 1000 hours, not 1300. FWIW, I'm running low on the 51 ohm resistors I have been using for the low range. The replacements I ordered are 47 ohms, not 51, for a tad more light (and closer to the 4:1 current ratio, 'two f stops') but still able to make the 1000 hour spec. Besides, 47 ohms is a much more colorful resistor (yellow, violet, black, gold rather than green, brown, black, gold)....... I intend to build the 15 boards for the pilot run with this new value as the resistors just arrived this evening.

I suggest more conservative run time estimates are in order.

Doug Owen


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## Doug Owen (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

[ QUOTE ]
*CiTY said:*
Scott, nice job, just in time for Christmas lites in the window, or even neater, replace the led with RGB for the holiday season. 

[/ QUOTE ]

As I told Scott off line, since the RGB LED contains the drivers for the diodes, they won't work on a current limited supply (unless the current is high enough).

The circuit could be modified to drive one, but only at the light level they're designed to (no dimming).

I'm assuming the RGB LED you're talking about is the two pin version that self flashes, not the four pin version that allows controlled drive to each color. If this is wrong, then the circuit can indeed drive *one* color to any three levels. Another switch could be added to select the color you want to drive of course.

Doug Owen


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## Doug Owen (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

[ QUOTE ]
*John Frederick said:*
I'd also be interested in one that I could plug into the wall. My children have an extraordinary ability to break night-light bulbs.


[/ QUOTE ]

John,

Interesting prospect. How's your soldering? I have a different version of the circuit board, it's about .5 by 1.25 inches and could easily be attached to the outside of a 'wall wort' with velcro. If you can handle the soldering, you can get a DC wall wort in the 4 to say 9 volt range (at at least 50 mA), cut the output leads and solder them to the pads on the board.

Otherwise it has the same multi current switch (the 3 currents can be changed of course), and it could be built with 'any' color or beam angle LED you wish.

Send me a PM and we'll 'discuss' it.

Doug Owen


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## Doug Owen (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

[ QUOTE ]
*Lux_Luminous said:*
(will there be a special CPF edition?)



[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, it's more like "CPF *only* edition" as I see it, at least at this point.....

Doug Owen


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## Doug Owen (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

[ QUOTE ]
*kitelights said:*

Throw 'em in a drawer. No worrying about cells leaking or going bad for 5 - 10 years! And on medium setting they'll last over 2 weeks on the same set of batteries. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, at 7.6 mA, run time will be a bit over (1300/7.6) 171 hours. This is more like one week than two. Unless you were talking 50% duty cycle (only on a night)?

Otherwise, yes, a 'hurricane light' was the goal, at least from my end. While a Li battery has advantages, in some cases an alkaline battery (say four D cells or a 'lantern battery') would offer shelf life nearly as long and considerably longer run time (like ten times longer.....).

Doug Owen


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## TheFire (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

So... now that these are so incredibly cool, where do I get my hot little flashaholic hands on one? I really think this is a great idea, now I want to test it out in person! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Paul


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## TheBeam (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

Mr. Spit,

I would like to say congratulations on this project. I have been following it all along and had nothing to contribute until now.

I think I need one of these also. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## milkyspit (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*Doug Owen*, you know your parts, of course. But my estimates are indeed based on what I was able to measure in the latest prototype: a tad under 30mA on high, 6.5mA on medium, and 1.0mA on nightlight. I specifically based the estimates on observed values so NOT to inflate them. It might be fair to say the prototype was an anomoly or even that there was some unknown resistance introduced into the measurement (seemingly not much from the DMM, though... a Fluke 77 set to the "10A" range), but the math on the above values supports my figures. If they do need to drop, it doesn't materially change the value of the light. I'll take new measurements with the boards once they return, and for now will update the estimates with ranges where appropriate.

As for the RGB LED issue, I didn't understand your offline statement on that, but in the interest of being conservative, I did mention in my clarification several posts previous to this that the RGB LED, pending additional data, shouldn't be counted on to work in the Milky Candle.

My read of *kitelights'* post was that he meant running the Milky Candle only at night. Using your conservative runtime figure and estimating 8 hours' usage per night (yes, could be anything from 8 to 12, but you already covered the 12 case), he'd get 3 weeks on one set of cells.

Your statement on alkaline cells surprised me, as it's my understanding that lithium cells enjoy lower self-discharge rates as well as greater temperature stability, the latter possibly being significant during a cold weather power outage. You're right, of course, that 4D cells have a much greater energy reserve than a pair of 123's, at the expense of a much larger light.

*All*, anyone who's been following Milky Candle development over the long haul knows that Doug Owen graciously stepped forward to design a circuit to my specifications for the Milky Candle, drawing on what for all indications is a tremendous expertise in such areas. My hat's off to him on a job well done. In addition, he's served as a mentor of sorts and lent his accumulation of wisdom on various issues, as the need arose.


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## milkyspit (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*All*, I'm tired! Gonna sleep. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif

But sometime tomorrow I'll post the all-important *ordering info* for this pilot run of Milky Candles, plus some more info and maybe another photo or two.

Stay tuned! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Doug Owen (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
*Doug Owen*, you know your parts, of course. But my estimates are indeed based on what I was able to measure in the latest prototype: a tad under 30mA on high, 6.5mA on medium, and 1.0mA on nightlight. I specifically based the estimates on observed values so NOT to inflate them. It might be fair to say the prototype was an anomoly or even that there was some unknown resistance introduced into the measurement (seemingly not much from the DMM, though... a Fluke 77 set to the "10A" range), but the math on the above values supports my figures. If they do need to drop, it doesn't materially change the value of the light. I'll take new measurements with the boards once they return, and for now will update the estimates with ranges where appropriate.

As for the RGB LED issue, I didn't understand your offline statement on that, but in the interest of being conservative, I did mention in my clarification several posts previous to this that the RGB LED, pending additional data, shouldn't be counted on to work in the Milky Candle.

My read of *kitelights'* post was that he meant running the Milky Candle only at night. Using your conservative runtime figure and estimating 8 hours' usage per night (yes, could be anything from 8 to 12, but you already covered the 12 case), he'd get 3 weeks on one set of cells.

Your statement on alkaline cells surprised me, as it's my understanding that lithium cells enjoy lower self-discharge rates as well as greater temperature stability, the latter possibly being significant during a cold weather power outage. You're right, of course, that 4D cells have a much greater energy reserve than a pair of 123's, at the expense of a much larger light.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, and I know my design (or at least think I do). And like I said, I did measure half a dozen 'identical' circuits yesterday. I also recall the same numbers on the prototype of my former layout I sent you a month or so back (the one in the center of your photo), have you measured that one? Something is amiss here, I'll be looking to check the latest prototype out when it gets back to me. For sure the ratios you cite above are a problem. 

I'm sorry, I though I was clear enough WRT the RGB issue, "it won't work with the circuit as designed", no need for additional data as I see it. I hope I set that straight?

As to 'days' of runtime, I count 24 hours in each one. My definition of emergency lights are 'until the emergency is over', that is hurricane lamps are generally lit and serve as a central point (usually at 'room temperatures') until the situation is over. I think that if you're going to express the time in a total of partial days, honesty requires you to specify such and name the hours per day it's lit. No big deal, just a difference in definitions I guess.

The self life of alkaline cells is suitable for this use, IMO. Useful run time after seven years or so of storage. In general, I think size of such lights isn't a prime consideration, but that's a trade off for sure. I only suggested it as a possible alternative. Still do.

Doug Owen


----------



## PeterW (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

Wonderul news, great design. How robust do you think it is, e.g. if you accidentally knocked it off a table?? 

Any idea about when they will be ready, how many you will do and how much you'll be charging?? 

Cheers to EVERYONE involved!!!

PEterW

PS I hope my name is on the list for the first run?! ;-)


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*PeterW*, thank you for the kind words. Yes, Doug made some great contributions with his circuit and suggested a couple interesting ideas, like the fixed brightness steps in factors of 4 currentwise rather than a continuous dimmer. And various others offered their thoughts on everything from the housing to the color of LED. You're right. Thanks EVERYONE. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As far as when they'll be ready? That depends in part on Doug. Yesterday I mailed a batch of bare circuit boards to him for assembly. I know he was hoping to build the boards right after the Thanksgiving holiday, then get them back to me. I hope that's still true.

As soon as I receive the boards, they'll go in the housings, and we'll be set. Fingers crossed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Remember, this is a pilot run, which means among other things that we're doing a limited quantity build of 15 Candles.

As far as your request, well... I'll see what I can do. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

*Edit:* Forgot about your robustness question. If the circuit is potted, the Milky Candle ought to survive a routine fall with no problems. Without the potting it would be somewhat more fragile, but chances are fairly good that it would still be okay.


----------



## ufokillerz (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

didnt you say that photon fest 2 attendees got first dibs? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Rothrandir (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

my head is beginning to reel with ideas /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rant.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif

when are these curcuits going to be ready? :distressed: :anxious: :impatient:


----------



## rodfran (Nov 15, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

To Scott, Doug Owen, and everyone involved-Great work!
The three level lighting is a great idea.
I have some used 123`s ready and waiting.


----------



## JTT (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

Milkyspit,

Like others I've been following the Milky Candle for quite some time also. Your first run sounds pretty small (which is understandable), but as soon as you "crank up production", I certainly would like to get a couple.

I think that from a practical standpoint this is a GREAT light. Emergency light, nightlight, mood light, flashlight, etc. 

I appreciate the work that you and Doug Owen and anyone else have put into this and look forward to the day when they will be available in reasonable quantities! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

JTT - Newbie


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*ufokillerz*, I'm trying dude! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

*rodfran*, you've been a big cheerleader for this effort for a looooonnnng time. It's appreciated! Keep saving those 123's. You're first on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*JTT*, thanks for your kindness. The goal of the pilot run is to get some Milky Candles into peoples' hands, then get feedback on how they work for them. The feedback gives an opportunity to fix any rough edges, then make a bunch more that are even better. It's a neverending process, I guess. But the pilot run ought to be good! At least from my perspective; I'm very happy with the latest prototype, which is essentially identical to what will come out of the pilot run. My kids love it, too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Hang in there, and you'll end up getting your Milky Candle(s) even if you don't make it into the "pilot 15".


----------



## PeterW (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

What is the input voltage range of the candle as designed. You could also offer an AA powered light to complement the 2 CR123 one. Lots more people have AA's including rechargables. Maybe 1AA if is is possible, don't want the thing to be too tall (also 1AA ought to give enough charge?).

Cheers again!

PEterW


----------



## Doug Owen (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

[ QUOTE ]
*PeterW said:*
What is the input voltage range of the candle as designed. You could also offer an AA powered light to complement the 2 CR123 one. Lots more people have AA's including rechargables. Maybe 1AA if is is possible, don't want the thing to be too tall (also 1AA ought to give enough charge?).

Cheers again!

PEterW 

[/ QUOTE ]

Peter,

Actually the original design was based on three NiMH cells, a 'happy accident' voltage wise. This very close match of Vf to battery voltage (combined with the 'flat' discharge of the NiMH) makes honest efficiencies of 90% possible, even routine.

I typically get 50 plus continuous hours at a bit over 30 mA per charge on 3 1700 mAh NiMH cells. I've got one with a couple dozen cycles at least.

More over, at the end of life 'direct drive' causes shutdown about the time the cells reach the 'time to recharge' point. It's almost impossible to hurt them by over discharge.

That said, the battery (whatever it is) needs to stay at least .1 Volt above Vf for this circuit to maintian regulation. This means one AA cell will have to be done another way. 3 NiMH is 'perfect', four alkalines 'very good'.

Cheers back at ya....

Doug Owen


----------



## PeterW (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

3AA..... sounds like a a perfect excuse to use a 3toD adapter to yield a nice short squat light?? It won;t fall over that easily.

PEterW


----------



## Doug Owen (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

[ QUOTE ]
*PeterW said:*
3AA..... sounds like a a perfect excuse to use a 3toD adapter to yield a nice short squat light?? It won;t fall over that easily.

PEterW 

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting idea! I've been using the square four cell holder (with 'snap clip' on top) for some time for that very reason.

Thanks for sharing...now I gotta buy me a couple of those adapters....

Doug Owen


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*PeterW*, I think Doug already mostly answered the voltage range question. The key is for the input to supply at least 0.1V more than the output needs. So the range is variable, based on what's on the output side. Also, you'd want to keep input voltage fairly close to what you need (just a little higher) to maximize efficiency.

In the Milky Candle as designed for the pilot run, the input could be anything from roughly 3.5V and up.

So long as the pilot run goes well, there will almost definitely be other variations on the Milky Candle itself, plus Doug has been experimenting with some nifty modular circuits built on a 9V battery clip, that can be snapped onto various battery packs. Hopefully, a little something for everybody! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Regarding those 3-to-D adapters, the only problem is the resistance they add to the circuit on the input side, wasting some power and possibly causing the batteries to fall out of regulation sooner. At 30mA the holder's resistance won't hurt nearly as much as in a higher-powered light, but if you get unlucky with a relatively high Vf LED and are running rechargeables, it just might not work at all.

There's been much discussion around CPF about those particular holders as well as fixes for the resistance problem.

Physically, it would be an interesting holder for the light, already cylindrical and not too tall. Just gotta do a minor mod to it to get the negative contact to the top of the holder rather than the bottom.

Hmm... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## Mark_Larson (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

Someone mind telling me what this mod offers me in comparison to a CMG Infinity that has a runtime of 43 hours on a fresh AA? (As opposed to 40-something hours with a fresh CR123A claimed for the milky candle)


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*Mark*, the Milky Candle will be quite a bit brighter, plus it can be set to one of the lower brightness levels to stretch the runtime out much farther if desired. Also, the Milky Candle is regulated, meaning the amount of light at the 40th hour will be the same as at the first hour of operation. The CMG Infinity claims to be "regulated" but actually drops a fair amount in brightness during its runtime.

Please understand, I don't mean to condemn the CMG Infinity. They're nice small, long runtime lights. I personally use an Infinity Ultra-G often; it's one of my favorites.


----------



## Mark_Larson (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

I see. So the primary advantage of this mod is the ability to run long on used CR123A's, right? Have there been any tests with a used 123 from, say, an Arc LS?


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*Mark*, you're basically right. The primary advantage is that the light runs for a long time at constant brightness, period. This pilot run happens to use a pair of 123 cells, but there's no reason the same circuit couldn't run from 4AA, or 4D, or 3 NiMH rechargeables, or 6V lantern battery, or even a 9V transistor radio battery... and eventually, it probably will! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The 123 cells are as good a place to start as any, given the number of us flashaholics that go through piles of 123's in our high end flashlights. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Regarding the test of cells used first in an Arc LS, I've done some of that informally, but it's tough to do a "definitive" test because we're not all running the Arc LS. Each light will run the cells down to different points. However, in nightlight mode the Milky Candle operates on less than 1.5mA of current flow, which would be an impossibly low amount of current for pretty much any of the Luxeon-based lights to use. Put another way, by the time the cells can only generate 1.5mA of current flow, the Milky Candle is probably the only light that will be able to do anything useful with it. Note that I really hate to make this sort of statement, because as soon I do, someone's bound to find a case where I'm wrong! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Oh well. Hopefully you follow the point.

As to the specific question, how long could those "spent" Arc LS cells run the Milky Candle? Well, let's suppose for sake of argument that the Arc LS sucks 95% of the total energy out of the 123 cell before dropping into moon mode. That's pretty good. But the Milky Candle's nightlight mode is designed to run for 1000 hours or more on fresh cells. Taking 5% of that figure, one might reasonably expect the Milky Candle to run in nightlight mode for 50 hours with those 95% spent cells. Or it might run for 10 hours at the medium output level, or possibly even 1-2 hours at the highest output level.

With incandescent lights, like the SL Scorpion or most of the SureFire product line, there's no doubt that the Milky Candle can still run for a LONG time from the point where the cells won't run the incandescent light.

I don't even *have* an Arc LS! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif Hmm... care to send me some cells to test? This could be interesting.


----------



## Doug Owen (Nov 18, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

[ QUOTE ]
*PeterW said:*
3AA..... sounds like a a perfect excuse to use a 3toD adapter to yield a nice short squat light?? It won;t fall over that easily.


[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't get Peter's excellent suggestion out of my head today, something was bugging me..... Then it hit me, how about the one D cell flashing strobe? 

"safety strobe" 

I had a cheap version, one I paid $6 or so for year ago, which I dug out and sure enough, plenty of room. I pulled the flasher circuit out and epoxied the regulator board to the contact board in the bottom of the housing, then cut a 'fingertip size' window in the clear (inner) cover to access the switch.

If I can figure out how to post photos, I'll put one or two up. Anyone who knows how want to PM me your email address?

Now if the 3 AA to D adapters I ordered this morning will just get here.....

So, does anyone know where we can get a pile of these strobe flashers cheap? They seem ideal; waterproof, small, stable, even has a magnet!

Anybody know a source?

Doug Owen


----------



## PeterW (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

Good to hear my idea is a good one! If you go into production with it, I would sure like to be on the list! I trust the light output of it is still reasonably diffused? Using 3 2.2Ah NiMH, this thing ought to burn forever.......

Cheers again

PEterW

PS We in the UK are being warned about possible blackouts this winter, so a long life light could be just the ticket!


----------



## Mark_Larson (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

You know, i would love a light like this one to give to my family in Africa, but they would probably remember to light up a real candle first. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Maybe if i can get in on the production run (if there ever is one) i'll mail it to them from here... hmm


----------



## Doug Owen (Nov 19, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

[ QUOTE ]
*PeterW said:*
Good to hear my idea is a good one! If you go into production with it, I would sure like to be on the list! I trust the light output of it is still reasonably diffused? Using 3 2.2Ah NiMH, this thing ought to burn forever.......



[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, your idea, you gotta get one.

Deal is we gotta find a source of the body at a reasonable price. Hopefully someone here in CPF land will know of one and tell us?

It seems diffuse (there's a fair bit of distortion in the cheap plastic lenses), but I also left enough room for the 'cliplite' diffuser if needed. 

There's also enough room for a LS in there as well......

Doug Owen


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*All*, to avoid potential confusion, I just started a new thread for Doug Owen's work on his "safety strobe" mod. You can access that thread over here. Doug provided some photos of his work thus far, which I included in the initial post. Just an FYI!

Meanwhile, I have some super secret good news about the Milky Candle to announce shortly. I could tell you now, but then I'd have to kill you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Seriously, I'll get the info posted, er, possibly tomorrow so I can get some sleep! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif Plus it's contingent on how many chores my wife gives me.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Gene (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

Sounds real GOOD Milky! Can't wait.


----------



## CiTY (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

Milkyspit, any thoughts of putting in a photo sensor to automatically turn on at night?


----------



## milkyspit (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...*

*CiTY*, I was thinking about that as being a later enhancement when first refining the concept, then conveniently forgot all about it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

The main issue would be to avoid circuitry that would cause additional current draw from the batteries, because that would defeat the purpose of the photocell in the first place. I can envision a great way to add sort of a "reverse photoresistor" to make the feature work, but don't know if such a component even exists. By "reverse photoresistor" I mean a photoresistor whose resistance INCREASES rather than decreases in the presence of light.

*All*, this seems as good a time as any for an update. I've got 11 units of the eventual 12 that will go to others in this pilot run complete. The 12th unit has a bad LED that somehow needs to be replaced; well, the LED's not exactly "bad," but its output is noticeably dimmer than the others.

For those 11 good units, the final step will be to pour some casting resin onto the circuit boards as a potting compound. Then done! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's Candle Time! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...RGB LED Testing.*

Hello. DeWayne here. I noticed the comments about the possible use of an RGB flasher LED in the thread, and, as I've been playing with 120V nitelite ideas, thot I could post my observations.

I just tested an RGB Led on a constant current source, at about 35ma. The tricky bit is that, unlike a standard LED, the load is constantly changing, and can be from almost nothing to 100MA with all three elements on full.

The LED could go 'bang' if the 'off' voltage goes too high. The good news, tho, is that my informal testing on the ChiWing (Ebay CWIHK) version of theses is that it will withstand at least 7.2V (2 Li cells) in it's off state.
And when it's on, if it has current limiting, it just dims down a bit as each element gets an equalish share of the 30ma. But it's still way bright and plenty entertaining..
Even setting it to 4ma it still runs, and is still rather bright. I only have a couple, but will be receiving 100 in the next week, so will be more inclined to bang a few. 
I'd definitely try it. Milkyspit, drop me an address, and I'll mail you a few to torture when they get here, if you'd like. The 'published' specs are wrong, so we have to use the empirical method. (AKA 'let the smoke out...')
On two cr2032 direct, it's painful to watch and gets warm. But doesn't fail..

Yours, drs the crazed..


----------



## milkyspit (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...RGB LED Testing.*

*drs2000*, PM sent! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## rodfran (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: More Specs...RGB LED Testing.*

Hey Scott, pic looks great!


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Photocell/revised ooopsie thanks Doug!*

Re: Photocell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif I've thought of something that should work here and be a net gain in battery life.

It's a constant current setup, LM334, IIRC.???

Break the neg leg of the LED and put a N-Channel power mosfet (VN2222 or whatever) source to the LED and drain to battneg, with a CDS photocell from the FET gate to ground, and a 500K/1 meg variable resistor from FET gate to batt+.

This will steal the tiniest amount of power to 'bias' the photocell and FET all the time, but at less than 100th the drain of the LED on low. The photocell when lit has a low value, which will overpower the 500K and keep the LED off.
When a CDS photocell gets dark, it's resistance shoots waaay up, allowing the 500K to pull up the FETs gate, which will turn it into a low value resistor in series with the LED.
(About 1-2 ohms when fully on.)
The CDSes I've played with measure less than 1K with good light, to 1meg or so in good dark. Start with the resistor in the middle. (Turning it all the way down while the CDS is well lit could let the smoke out of the CDS...) Adjust the 500k to get a good value of turn-on light level. It'll turn on gradually with this design, as the ambient light fades. You can then take out the resistor, measure it, and put in a fixed resistor of close value. As an example of power drain, if you end up with a 220K resistor value, when off, it'll draw about .000035 amps, or .035ma. With a 100K, about .07ma. Compare to 1 to 30ma when on for the LED and the photocell circut will add less than .001ma to that. I like FETs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ASCII? (Had to use . for a spacer to get my G out there.)

Batt+ ---Existing circuit---+LED----S-FET-D---Batt-
.....................................................G
Batt+ ---500K or 1Meg var resistor-----|--CDS Cell--Batt-

BTW, PM received and replied. If you want me to toss in a couple of FETS and bits for the above when I send the LEDs, just ask. I may try this out tomorrow, if it's calm at work.

Any thots?
DRS crazed technician and programmer and such. But to quote my buddy, 'My favorite programming language is solder!'. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## ufokillerz (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

milkycandle!! lolz is it limited to 1 per person that call dibs? =p i could use 2. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Stanley (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

*sigh* I just told myself, "No more flashlights"... Ok but technically this is a candle, right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Here's my contribution too, Milky... How much and where do I send the check? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Doug Owen (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

[ QUOTE ]
*drs2000 said:*
Re: Photocell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif I've thought of something that should work here and be a net gain in battery life.

It's a constant current setup, LM334, IIRC.???

Break the neg leg of the LED and put a N-Channel power mosfet (VN2222 or whatever) source to the LED and drain to battneg, with a CDS photocell from the FET gate to ground, and a 500K/1 meg variable resistor from FET gate to batt+.


ASCII? (Had to use . for a spacer to get my G out there.)

Batt+ ---Existing circuit---+LED----D-FET-S---Batt-
.....................................................G
Batt+ ---500K or 1Meg var resistor-----|--CDS Cell--Batt-



[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting idea, however the configuration isn't quite right (I think), the Drain goes to the circuit minus (don't break the LED lead).

The FET will, of course need to be selected for good saturation (low Vds) at 30 mA with only 'most' of a marginal battery (say 3.3 Volts?) for Vgs.

Thanks for sharing.

Doug Owen


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

[ QUOTE ]
*Doug Owen said:*
Quoting DeWayne's misteak:

Break the neg leg of the LED and put a N-Channel power mosfet (VN2222 or whatever) source to the LED and drain to battneg, with a CDS photocell from the FET gate to ground, and a 500K/1 meg variable resistor from FET gate to batt+.


ASCII? (Had to use . for a spacer to get my G out there.)

Batt+ ---Existing circuit---+LED----D-FET-S---Batt-
.....................................................G
Batt+ ---500K or 1Meg var resistor-----|--CDS Cell--Batt-



[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting idea, however the configuration isn't quite right (I think), the Drain goes to the circuit minus (don't break the LED lead).



The FET will, of course need to be selected for good saturation (low Vds) at 30 mA with only 'most' of a marginal battery (say 3.3 Volts?) for Vgs.

Thanks for sharing.

Doug Owen 

[/ QUOTE ] 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gifDuhoh!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jpshakehead.gif

Dang. Got it right in the text description, and blew it in the 'ASCII' version. My bad... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Thanks for the correction. Will edit my post to swap those leads.

As for the saturation thing, it -looks- like most of the vn2222 and/or 2N7000 parts will be 'on' enuff at 3.3vgs to drop only .1v or so at 30ma. Of course, if you buy surplus stuff like I do, the reason they'd be surplus is that they're out of spec on the high side for gate threshold;-).
The 2N7000 looks ok at 3.3 or so, tho it'd probably be dropping .2v if the current was 30ma. And the LED itself would be dropping off, too. That is at the bottom end of the VGS range, tho, so it's close. The reason for picking those parts was twofold: they're TO-92 and I've got some. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
A nice logic-level or 3V logic-level FET in that small, 4-legged package would be much better and close in size, without being surface mount. Better threshold, better RDSon.
I'll play this weekend and see what it does..

Enjoy the lights! DRS the crazed. 
(My new motto: If I make a misteak, I just throw it on the barbie and eat my words. At least I hope they're rare.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

*drs2000* and *Doug Owen*, if we can collectively get this photoresistor enhancement worked into the Milky Candle circuit and the additional parts don't cost too much and it doesn't adversely affect brightness or runtime by more than a trivial amount and it works as advertised, I think it would be a great enhancement. Lots of "if's" I know, but those are the hurdles that exist. I'm optimistic that this can work, as it would be neat! Fits well with the concept of a long-running form of room illumination, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Thanks, too, to *CiTY* for suggesting this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

One important question that hasn't been addressed yet: when the circuit falls into direct drive as the power source drops too low in voltage, will this subcircuit continue to work?


----------



## Doug Owen (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*

One important question that hasn't been addressed yet: when the circuit falls into direct drive as the power source drops too low in voltage, will this subcircuit continue to work?


[/ QUOTE ]

That's what we're 'talking' about, actually. It's going to be a race. While we've got to look into it, I think for two 123 cells it's not a big issue, but when you don't have 'battery to burn' the drops will kill ya.

I tried this with the FETs I had (2N7000???) and gave up. I was working with 3 NiMH cells and couldn't live with the drops. It sounds like time to revisit the issue. For sure FETs exist that work fine at voltages even lower (at very low currents).

It's also possible the other kind of FET (enhancement mode) might end up the ultimate circuit. Since the channel becomes a physical limit, they 'self limit' current, 30 mA (or so) is a typical value for TO-92 parts. This could reduce the (single level) candle to a FET, resistor, photocell, LED and battery.......

Food for thought.

Doug Owen


----------



## Doug Owen (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

[ QUOTE ]
*Doug Owen said:*
It's also possible the other kind of FET (enhancement mode) might end up.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew that was backwards as soon as I screwed up and sent it, honest I did.... Not that it really matters, the 7000s are enhancement mode, I suggest depletion mode....or the other way....

Doug Owen


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

[ QUOTE ]
*Doug Owen said:*
It's also possible the other kind of FET (enhancement mode) might end up.... 

[/ QUOTE ]

I knew that was backwards as soon as I screwed up and sent it, honest I did.... Not that it really matters, the 7000s are enhancement mode, I suggest depletion mode....or the other way....

Doug Owen 

[/ QUOTE ]

See.. I'm contagious! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I will dabble with it this weekend. I do have some RFP12n10L parts that will work at 3V OK, tho they're
TO220 parts. Will look at some of the laptop harddrives and see if they've got any of those lo-volt parts.
May have to add a 220K or so under the CDS so that the dark voltage goes hi enuff, yet keeps the sunny voltage below vgsthreshold. The constant current FET trick I think has too much drop to be a good battery killer, tho I've seen it used for LED current limit somewhere. It's always fun to try and extract the last bit out of a battery. My little Shorelite VX-1 with run at least down to 60mv on a AAA. And have useable light at 100mv+.

Well, back to da grind.

Yours, DRS the crazed.
(Here's a wacky thot: Toss a little LR-44 in series with the gate of the FET as a bias source. Would last for years, and give a Vgs of well over 4V. Is that wacko or what! (Was a trick used in the tube days in some portable radios, with a mercury cell. Lasted for ages.. In this circuit, it'd pull less than 1ua.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## CiTY (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

I thought this thread needed a kick start for being dormant for 2-3 weeks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Doug Owen (Dec 12, 2003)

*Re: More Specs.../Photocell*

[ QUOTE ]
*drs2000 said:*
[(Here's a wacky thot: Toss a little LR-44 in series with the gate of the FET as a bias source. Would last for years, and give a Vgs of well over 4V. Is that wacko or what! (Was a trick used in the tube days in some portable radios, with a mercury cell. Lasted for ages.. In this circuit, it'd pull less than 1ua.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting idea!

Fun area, there's sure to be an elegant solution somewhere...

Doug Owen


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 14, 2003)

*Photcell test setup +RGB prelim results*

I'm back! 

Emailed Doug and we've been exchanging notes. I'll be testing this stuff for real shortly, I think..

By the way, the Chi-Wing stuff showed up, so I should be dropping those bits in the mail this week.(Doug, Scott, Craig)

I cobbled up the photocell circuit as earlier shown, using a 470K resistor, a 2N7000 and a scavenged CDS photocell from a photorelay kit bought at Fry's. (Mumble giant mumble store didn't have any mumble cells.) 

CDS cell measured about 10K in well lit office light. measured over 4M in pretty good dark. Tested with a tired CR2032 cell, open circuit 3.2v, loaded with white led and photocell circuit, 2.9v. Worked well, dropped about .1V at the worst case, and .02v or so at higher voltages. Will test with Doug's curcuit soon, hopefully.

As for RGB, it looks like it'll work ok, but even better for a nightlight if you cheat and hang a blue or white LED diretly in parallel with the RGB one. This way, when the RGB one is in dimming or flashing mode and in it's off state, the other LED will turn on, so you always have light. Also it's a good way to run RGB's in series. (See our shop Xmas tree for example..)

Well, back to work. 

Happy blinking!

yors, drs the crazed.


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Photcell test setup +RGB final results.*

DeWayne again. Mailed off those parts to Doug and Scott. Hope they're useful!

I assembled the Milkyboard (TNX, Doug!) and tested it with an RGB LED. Works ok, but does pulsate a bit, as the LED changes it's load drastically. If you add another standard LED in series with a small diode in parallel with the RGB LED, as the RGB goes off, the other LED turns on, keeping the load more constant, and providing light at all times. Plus more flashing. I used a teal blue/green for a very bright and festive effect. Runs at all settings of the Milky, too. (Teal and RGB LEDs in your pkgs, btw.)

Added the photocell unit to the Milkyboard. (Included in Scott's pkg) Works ok. Does tend to see itself, so you may have to mask the photocell with some heatshrink or such. I have the milky version running with the RGB/teal combo at 1.3ma setting with 2 CR2032 batts, and my original photocell board with 1.3ma white and one CR2032. Will see how long they run. The single CR2032 has run for a week now, at about 8-10 hrs a day on time. Still going.

You can't call the RGB nightlight dull... Makes patterns on the far wall, even at 1.3ma. At 7ma and 30ma it's quite eye-catching.

Hope you guys like the bits! Happy Holidays!

Yours, drs the crazed.


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Should I post pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

BTW, I decided to try snapping some macro pix of the photomod prototype and the 'clean' version with the Milkyboard, both room lit and self lit. Should I post these?

Some pix include my mini-fluorescent emergency lights, and a Dorcy AAA for size..

drs the crazed. (Off to read da roolz about pixposting...)


----------



## Doug Owen (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Should I post pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

[ QUOTE ]
*drs2000 said:*
BTW, I decided to try snapping some macro pix of the photomod prototype and the 'clean' version with the Milkyboard, both room lit and self lit. Should I post these?


[/ QUOTE ]

DeWayne,

My, oh my, you must be new around here...you have photos, know how to post them and didn't? 

Please do so. Quick, before you gotta duck.....

And thanks for the parts, I'll be looking out for them.

Doug Owen


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Should I post pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

Doug Owen said:


>DeWayne,

>My, oh my, you must be new around here...you have photos, know how to post them and didn't? 

>Please do so. Quick, before you gotta duck.....

I'm slow, but I eventually catch on... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Read the FAQ and have got the idea. I'll have to do it tonite, as the pix are on that machine. The sony mcd-400? did a pretty decent macro bit, and not bad on the self-lit stuff. (It's not easy trying to shoot with a digital camera with blinky colorstuff.)

I'll get to it, then..

Let me know how you like the bits! 
They went out today at the SFO PO First Class. Here's hoping you get 'em b-4 New Years! Padded brown envelope.

Happy Holidays! DRS the crazed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Should I post pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

*drs2000*, many thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yes, please post the photos. Yippee, more photos! If you need help getting 'em posted, PM me.


----------



## ufokillerz (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Should I post pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

are all the units spoken for? =p


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 22, 2003)

*WARNING! Lotsa pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

Ok, here we go::::

Got the pix down from 1.5M to 20K. Suffered a bit in the process, but that's what happens..
Installed FTP on this machine and got it working.. Pix are up.. Now the new stuff:

Here's a pic of the 'Breadball' design prototype photocell unit in action: (Not much action, tho, as it's in light.)






Another angle:






And with a $1.00 light for size reference:






Note the extremely high-tech and precision made battery holder. (1 dinky bulldog clip, 1/4th of a business card.)

Now for the Milkycandle electronics, with the added photocell mod. (Modded Dorcy AAA + $1.00 light for ref.)






'Nother angle:






OK. Those were the room lit pix. Here are the pix with only the units themselves for illumination. The Milkycandle unit is driving one RGB flasher in parallel with a teal blue/green LED. The Breadball's driving an 8000mcd white. Both units are running about 1.3ma thru the LEDs.






Another....






and the final.....







Hope these were amusing!!

Yours, DRS the crazed..

P.S. Milkyspit, you've got one of the little photocell boards in your box, and you and Doug have both RGBs and teals in the packages.. Have fun!!

Yours, DRS the hope I didn't fry anyone's connection..


----------



## Doug Owen (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: WARNING! Lotsa pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

Way cool. Love the 'shade tree mechanic' aspect. I assume you've saved the other 3/4 of the card?

Thanks.

Doug Owen


----------



## rodfran (Dec 26, 2003)

*Re: WARNING! Lotsa pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

Received milkycandle today! Mighty fine work. Thanks to Scott and everyone involved in this project. Now I just wait until dark. I`ve got one happy 12 year old here!


----------



## ufokillerz (Dec 26, 2003)

*Re: WARNING! Lotsa pix of Photocell +RGB ?*

nooo lolz, i never got contacted, that means i dont get one =p =(


----------



## drs2000 (Dec 26, 2003)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

[ QUOTE ]
*Doug Owen said:*
Way cool. Love the 'shade tree mechanic' aspect. I assume you've saved the other 3/4 of the card?

Thanks.

Doug Owen 

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad you liked my 'Modern Art'. And while I didn't save the whole business card, I did use it on a couple of items.. And, of course, the first piece I tore off was too short, anyway.. That's ok, tho, as the first batch of cards from this vendor, paid for by the City and County of San Francisco, spelled Francisco as Fracisco. So I have lots of fodder for my experiments..

When I was a kid, I was hell on shoeboxes, too. Every one had holes cut in it and wierd doodads attached.. Still gotta find a good use for all of these Altoid tins, too.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

By the way, both the 'freeform' light and the Milkycandle version are still running nicely on the first set of batts. The single CR2032 on the prototype has over 100 hours lit, and the 2 CR2032s on the Milky about 50..
The Milky flashes away merrily all night long..

Do you get your envelope yet??

Yours, DRS the crazed..


----------



## ufokillerz (Jan 1, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

got mine today after nagging scott for quite sometime =p thanks =) great work guys


----------



## JTT (Jan 13, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Milkyspit,

Having seen your post in the "Emergency Lantern For Long ..." thread, I would again like to express my interest in getting a couple of MilkyCandles. If you are ever going to do another run, I would certainly like an opportunity to get two. I think that you have designed a winner!

Thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

JTT


----------



## Empath (Jan 14, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Scott, I don't know when you'll finalize plans for this, but when you do, and they're available, I'd appreciate you getting word to me in case I don't catch it in time.


----------



## kfasold (Jan 14, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Also made it here based on the "Emergency Lantern For Long..." thread, and I'd definitely like to purchase a couple if you 'gear up' for a run.

Thanks.


----------



## springnr (Jan 14, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Ditto, I'm interested in a couple. Build it yourself kit would work too.


----------



## Gene (Jan 14, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Thanks to my friend Milky, I also have a "MilkyCandle". This thing has been running almost nonstop for almost two weeks on a couple of old, tired 123 cells and it is still bright! This is a great emergency light and a great 123 drainer! Nice work Scott!


----------



## balticvid (Jan 15, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Scott

When ever you have a couple available, I'd like to put
my order for two.

They turned out nice.

Walt

PS. When is our next meeting? Any ideas yet...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Jan 15, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

*springnr*, the kit idea's come up before, though most people seemed to want a preassembled unit. But a kit is certainly possible! Great idea. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

*Walt* (balticvid), thanks for the compliment! Doug Owen deserves a pat on the back, too. You're on the wait list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Regarding the next NJ PhotonFest, KartRacer31 is doing the scheduling on PF3, and wants to have it as soon as the weather gets warm enough to stay outside for a while. Maybe sometime mid- to late-February? Or March, depending on mother nature. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

*All*, one thing holding up another run (second pilot run? first production run?) is a source of the little round circuit boards. I sanded the last bunch myself to make them round (they were rectangular to begin with), and Doug Owen hand soldered the components onto them. Going forward, I either *need to recruit more volunteers* to spread the work, *or find a contract circuit assembly house* to build a bunch. Anyone willing to help and/or know of a company that might give us a reasonable deal? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

For volunteers with sanding and board assembly, I could offer a free fully-assembled Milky Candle for every so many boards completed. (Exactly how many is open for discussion.)

It's also worth mentioning that other versions of the Milky Candle are possible. The circuit can run on other battery configurations, and Doug Owen has even been playing with modular circuits built on a 9V battery clip, to be clipped to whatever battery holder you like. Radio Shack sells several styles of battery holders with 9V clips on them. Of course, you wouldn't end up with the same PVC housing used in this particular version, so it's a matter of preference.

I even put together an experimental candle over the Christmas holiday built inside a dollar store 2AA Christmas candle! I'll probably do a brief writeup on that one at some point, complete with a few photos.

And *drs2000* "the crazed" has been playing with some variations to the circuit, including one that incorporates a photocell. Drs, wanna put together some boards? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

As a starting point, people seem to like this PVC housing... at least I *think* they do! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## this_is_nascar (Jan 15, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Scott, I really need to express my sincere appologize to you. You went out of your way to take care of me and I have yet to thank you or post any general information here. I have to tell you the Candle is awesome and is now my new emergency light. It also serves as my "getting dressed in the morning light". The runtime is unmatched and it's just a great overall light. Thanks again.


----------



## drs2000 (Jan 15, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Milkyspit said:
<font color="red">And drs2000 "the crazed" has been playing with some variations to the circuit, including one that incorporates a photocell. Drs, wanna put together some boards? </font>

Actually, I enjoy building little boards. Doug's board was quite nice, and my 14 year old daughter helped, and enjoyed it as well. Sure! The only odd thing about this, tho, is that with the light a 'starved' 5mm white will put out, combined with a photocell, makes this thing a terrible (non) user of batteries.. Someone with a light that kills a couple 123s in an hour, that saves 'em for this, will have a lifetime supply in a week!!

My 'scatter' assembled dumb prototype, running at about 1ma, has been running for 30 days on one CR2032 and is still putting out quite useable light. I'm still fine tuning the 2 cell version, so it's not quite as good, but, frankly, it'll still run for months on 123s... I think it may be too good to use up batteries.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(BTW, Doug, did you get those parts?)

Scott, did you try any of the RGBs yet? Make for a rather non-boring nitelite..

If you do want boards assembled, tho, let me know. Good practice recognizing components and stuffing boards for Nora, and I enjoy it as well. She's already modded her first flashlight.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Found some ultra-low threshold VN2222s, and plan to order some and mess. They'll cut the standby drain by quite a bit on the two-cell unit. Have you tried that board I sent ya?

Yours, DRS looking at a small pile of bits from Moses, Electrolumens and Wayne for funzies.. Gotta dust off the old slobberiron..


----------



## Interlude (Jan 28, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Hello there thread, what are you doing down here?


----------



## milkyspit (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

*Flattening Some 123 Cells*

I've got a real world data point to report. For a long time now I've been preaching about how the Milky Candle can run for hours on cells that pretty much no other light can use. That was, after all, one of the key design goals, and Doug specifically considered it in designing the circuit.

But I'd never *really* put it to the test, so earlier this week I grabbed the two worst condition 123 cells from my "discards" bin. BEFORE running in the Milky Candle, both cells registered flash amps of only 0.01A. That's pretty dead!

(For those unfamiliar with the flash amps concept, take a look at this thread.)

I had my doubts about whether they would work, but in the interest of science I gave it a try. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Well, first of all they worked. I decided to switch the Milky Candle to "nightlight" mode (the lowest output setting) and see how long it would continue to run. After 48 continuous hours (or was it 72? lost track) the Candle was still going strong. Sometime during the next day, the Candle went out. That seemed pretty good for cells that were pretty much running on fumes! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Afterward, I did a postmortem on the cells. Oddly enough, they still registered 0.01A flash amps. However, when I tested the voltage they gave me a surprise. One cell had an unloaded voltage of *2.14V*, and the other measured *1.88V*. To appreciate this, please note that the typical service life for a 123 cell only sees its unloaded voltage drop from maybe 3.2V to 2.8V. The voltage tends to remain pretty steady, even when the cells have basically nothing left. That's why measuring flash amps is so much more useful as an assessment of a 123 cell's condition. I've *never seen 123 cells with such low voltages* as the ones that ran dead in the Milky Candle. So apparently the Milky Candle did its job! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*On the Order Process That Never Was*

When we put together some boards for the initial pilot run of Milky Candles, the original idea was to open some sort of order process. But reality soon hit. Other than the few boards Doug and I kept for ourselves, we had just 12 to distribute. Meanwhile, they were all spoken for as quickly as they could be built! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

We wanted to get these mostly in the hands of known modders or 123 cell enthusiasts, in an attempt to get some feedback from the pilot run, make whatever improvements were necessary, and move on. But I had also pledged that anybody attending the two NJ Photon Festival events I hosted last autumn would have priority in getting a Milky Candle. By the time the supermodders, 123 nuts, and Photon Fest requestors were taken care of, we were out of Milky Candles from the run! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

All is not lost for those who didn't get in on this first batch, however. I've been keeping a wait list based on requests PM'd to me, emailed, or posted in this thread. Those on the list will get first dibs on the next batch. And there WILL be a next batch, although exactly when remains a mystery. The more interest is expressed, the more an order of new circuit boards can be justified, or (gasp!) even an order placed with some sort of circuit assembly shop. It all depends on the scale we're talking about. Barring that, I'll need to get better with my soldering skills, or I'll need to get Doug inspired (he hand soldered all the boards for the pilot run, all you recipients!), or we'll need some folks with good soldering skills to volunteer their assistance. Same story for sanding the boards into a round shape, which we'll need done if we can't justifying paying the extra for the board manufacturer to do it.

That pretty much brings things up to date. If you're interested in a Milky Candle (or more of 'em, if you already got one), please be sure to let me know. If you can help with assembly, please let me know that as well. And if you're super anxious and just can't wait for another run, I can possibly put something together in a different housing; PM me about that.

Sorry to EVERYONE about the non-order process! It really wasn't planned to go that way, but live and learn I guess. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

Sorry, too, for the couple people who still don't have their pilot run Milky Candles! Long story, and all of it my fault. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif But you'll have 'em VERY soon.

As for the pilot run recipients, hope they're working out for you. The reports I've heard from a couple recipients were very good.


----------



## drs2000 (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Milkyspit sed:
<font color="red"> Barring that, I'll need to get better with my soldering skills, or I'll need to get Doug inspired (he hand soldered all the boards for the pilot run, all you recipients!), or we'll need some folks with good soldering skills to volunteer their assistance. Same story for sanding the boards into a round shape, which we'll need done if we can't justifying paying the extra for the board manufacturer to do it.
</font>

Remember, I'll be happy to assemble and solder boards, and may have an idea for the rounding part. (Little board clamp rigged to a grinder on a properly placed pivot point, so you just roll it past the wheel a few times 'til she's done.

I'll even send you a better picture of the ones I built for testing so you can see that I can solder..

Still dabbling with the emergency stuff. See my posting to the Lantern section. Hope to have enuff stuff scattered around to shoot pix of in the next few days to make wasting a mini-CDR worthwhile. Or erasing a CDRW. (Camera uses these. Lost the software CD, and Sony doesn't post the drivers online, so I have to finalize and use the CD instead of USB transfer.. Oh, well..) I'll try to make a couple more coins tomorrow.. Handy.. Keep on mashing those 123s flat!

DRs the crazed..


----------



## wasabe64 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Rehotocell +RGB ?*

Milkyspit,

I'm in for two when the next batch gets started.


----------



## PeterW (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

What sort of cost are we talking abou for the milky candle?? I will definately go for one.

Cheers, I bet it'll be worth the wait.

PEterW


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

The ones made for the pilot run cost folks $23 each plus shipping. My goal is to keep the price near that level for the next run as well... a lot will hinge on how inexpensively I can source various parts.


----------



## wasabe64 (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Did I mention that I can solder? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If you need someone to help assembling boards, let me know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Kercheval (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

I would be interested in a couple of these, Scott.

These would even be fine in kit form. I have an electronic work bench of sufficient sophistication to deal with this.

jbk


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Wasabe64, CalgaryGuy, Vifam, Kercheval, you're all on the wait list. Thanks for letting me know.

PeterW (as well as several others), you've been on the list for a while... just never happened to mention it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Looks like I'd better start thinking about getting some more circuit boards ordered and built. Man, I really dislike sanding those darned little boards into a round shape, but I do like the results! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So far, from all that I've heard, the recipients of the first pilot run of Milky Candles all seem to be making good use of them. They haven't really reported back to this thread, but most PM'd and/or emailed me to let me know how they were doing. The next run will make a few minor improvements, but otherwise be built using the same general design...

From the side, with interesting camera-induced halo. Sandals not included. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif






Closeup, full brightness.





Side view in nightlight mode (the lowest brightness setting).


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

I am interested in one or two.


----------



## evanlocc (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

And count me in 1 or 2 too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## kfasold (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Please please tell me I'm already on the list for a couple!!(from earlier in this thread -- January I think)


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Kfasold, you're in! (And yes, you've been on the list for a while.) January 14th... "definitely like to purchase a couple." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Pi_is_blue and evanlocc, you're both on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I just reorganized the list last night so it would be a little easier for me to follow. Right now there are requests for 50 Milky Candles, which certainly sounds encouraging for getting some more boards built. (The Milky Candle in the PVC coupler housing, as shown in all the photos throughout this thread, has at its heart a little round circuit board.) No doubt a few of those requests will end up being cancelled, which happens with pretty much any build around here, but still it sounds like pretty good volume to justify another run. Now to put my thinking cap on and get ready to place an order for those boards...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Mar 10, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

BTW I have one and must say it was The implement I reached for during a recent overnight power outage. Set it up and left it running in the back bathroom where our daughter refused to go by herself without "a candle"...


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Folks, we've reached a milestone of sorts. Nascar has decided to sell his Milky Candle. This is the first time a Milky Candle has appeared in B/S/T. His post is over here.


----------



## bucken (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Milkyspit,
I'd be interested in one, whenever you get ready.


----------



## Erik Johnson (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Has an amber LED been considered? I know adding any options to a run complicates matters, but amber should give a nice warm candle-like effect. Of course nothing beats white for true emergency lighting.

Count me in for a candle; two if you decide to offer different colors.

Erik.


----------



## Doug Owen (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

[ QUOTE ]
*Erik Johnson said:*
Has an amber LED been considered? I know adding any options to a run complicates matters, but amber should give a nice warm candle-like effect. Of course nothing beats white for true emergency lighting.



[/ QUOTE ]

More importantly (at least IMO) is it will also run on a *single* 123 cell, not two.....

Doug Owen


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Bucken, you're added to the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Erik Johnson, you're on the list, too. I put you down for two if we offer different colors. Tentatively speaking, I don't see much of a problem in doing that.

Regarding the amber LED, I did some testing with amber, yellow, and wide angle orange LEDs while playing around with some Milky Candle prototypes. Ultimately I ended up sticking with white for the initial pilot run, as it was brighter than the others. But Doug's right in saying the colored LEDs have their advantages, one biggie being the need for only one 123 cell. I've been looking for a really compelling single cell tube to use with such lights. Guess I could simply use the same PVC coupler with a spacer inside, but it would be neat to get the thing smaller. I believe Doug has built some prototypes inside 35mm film canisters?

I've also toyed with a socketed LED, allowing the user to use any LED they want, and easily switch to something different later. It does work! but complicates assembly a little, and makes the LED itself more prone to damage since it's not potted in place. So there are ups and downs to this approach, just like anything I guess.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


----------



## maddog (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

put me down for 2 please


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Maddog, you're on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## TheFire (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

If I'm not already there, I'd like to get onto the list... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## maddog (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
Maddog, you're on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gifYEAH!.........THANKS


----------



## jdriller (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Milky,
Put me on the list for one.

Thanks


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

TheFire, you're already on the list... from all the way back in November! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Looks like you JUUUUSSSST missed out on the initial pilot run, sorry about that dude. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Jdriller, you are now on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## ufokillerz (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

still interested in 1 =P a new one heh. Will PF4 attendees get first dibs? =D


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Forgot to mention, I got an update from one of the initial recipients this morning. I'll keep the person anonymous for now since I haven't had a chance to ask about sharing it...

"Milkycandle doing great! My wife uses it as a book light as to not to wake me otherwise I'd be a grumpy b**tard if I don't get my sleep. It still is on the same set of OLD batteries since I recieved it from you. It makes a good light to navigate around the house at night, it puts out plenty of light to get around. Thanks again."

For other recipients of the initial batch, send me your feedback if you have a spare moment! Always happy to hear how the little guys are doing out in the real world, and maybe your comments can help fine tune the design. Send me some PM! Many thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 21, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Man, Ufo, you already got one! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

But yes, happy to oblige. But PF4 can't happen until we get PF3 out of the way! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes, I always try to take care of Photon Fest attendees who express interest.

As for those who simply can't attend Photon Fest (which is in New Jersey after all, and some of you aren't even on this continent!), don't worry. The next run may take a little while to get together, but I'll try to build more Milky Candles so hopefully everyone can get what they want. Geez, I'd better ask MR Bulk how HE does it! This is pretty daunting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif


----------



## Sprocketman (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Scott, please put me down for two from the next run if you have not already. I am actively looking for a host between the Brunton Lamplight and the Energizer 2 in 1 that you put me on to.

Randy


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Randy (Sprocketman), you're listed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just to clarify for others: Randy and I have been swapping PM's regarding his interest in modding a different host using a Milky circuit. The Milky Candle itself doesn't need a host, it's a complete light on its own.


----------



## springnr (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

I've been looking for a really compelling single cell tube to use with such lights.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you can live with orange the waterproof match container that holds two spare 123s should have room for a circuit and cell. I've seen Brass match containers but don't know if 123s fit in them.


----------



## Judgedog (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

I'd like to be added to the list, please!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Judgedog, got it. You're on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## PeterW (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Cool product, people even praise it when it is shipped with 'flat' batteries!!

PeterW 
(On the list and waiting his turn for one!)


----------



## rodfran (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Hi Scott,I just wanted to tell you my milkycandle is alive and doing well. As a night light or power failure light it is the greatest! I just can`t believe how long it runs on a pair of used 123`s.Looks like you have plenty of customers for the first production run. They will be getting a top notch light.Also, the portability of the milkycandle is nice. Other night lights are plugged into the wall. With the milkycandle, you can take it with you.


----------



## kubolaw (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

List, what list?! I don't know how I miss things like this. If not too late as usual, please add me to "the list" also!

John


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Rodfran, glad to hear it's working out for you, and I'm very appreciative of your kind words. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Sounds like it's doing its intended job pretty well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Kubolaw, you're not too late this time. You're on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

This ain't no VIP, but the wait list is now up to *60 Milky Candles.* Yikes! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

This is going to take a while, but plans are already underway for getting another run together that ought to get Milky Candles into everyone's hands. Just not sure how quick it'll happen, but I'll do my best. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Plus for any newbies (or folks who want to upgrade their request) the list is still open! I'll try to make a few extra to cover latecomers.


----------



## brightnorm (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Scott,

Please put me down for two. Will you PM us when you want payment?

Brightnorm


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Brightnorm, I've got you down for 2. Actually, you've been on the list since November, another one of the near-misses from the pilot run I'm afraid. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Yes, I'll contact folks about payment. You'll have some time to get funds together, as the boards will take a while to get ordered, then assembled. I'll keep folks posted each step of the way via this thread. _(Note to all: mark this thread as one of your favorites to receive the status updates!)_


----------



## Xrunner (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Scott, I would like a spot on the list too please. Thanks

-Mike


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Xrunner, you're in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## batterystation (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Not sure how I missed this cool thing, but I would like to have two of them if possible. Please email me when and where to send funds. Thanks. Kevin


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Kevin, it's an honor sir. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif You're on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

The direct-entry URL for the Milky Candle is http://ledmuseum.jpoproductions.com/milky.htm if anyone's interested.
This page is not finished yet, and it's not even linked to the rest of my website yet, so this is kind of like a preview. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(Edit: about an hour fourteen minutes later)
The page is now linked to the rest of my website.
It's still not done yet, but I think I have the basics covered. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Vifam (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

Is it possible to run Milky Candle with 1x123 cell and 1x123 spacer?


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

Vifam, well, uh, yes... sort of. With this particular version of the Milky Candle running a white Nichia, a single 123 cell would light the Nichia, but not at full brightness. I'm not even sure it would be running in regulation; might be direct drive, meaning the LED would gradually dim over time. So the bottom line is that yes, in a pinch you could certainly do that, but you won't get the full benefit of the Milky Candle.

With a different color LED, such as red, orange, and perhaps a few others, you could definitely run at 1x123 with all the benefits (high/medium/low brightness, regulated output, etc.).

The housing I've been using is great for 2x123 and I suppose by request I could install a different color for 1x123 operation, so long as you don't mind the extra space inside the tube.


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

As suggested I try, I removed the diffusing cap, set the Milky Candle to "medium", and placed it at bedside last night. It was not so bright that it interfered with sleep, but it was bright enough to find and use the bathroom at night with.

I placed the results of this "test" on my Milky Candle web page, as I think they are significant enough to merit such mention.


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

Craig, thank you for your review. I know these things take you some time to prepare, and lots of us appreciate it. In the case of the Milky Candle specifically, your efforts will help folks understand what a Milky Candle really is far better than they otherwise might. Thank you sir! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Using the diffusers tends to give more light to the sides, while removing the diffusers reflects more light off the ceiling. The latter works best with a ceiling that's white or offwhite, or at the very least painted with semigloss or some other reasonably reflective surface. Otherwise the diffusers might be better.

In our house the ceilings seem to do a good job reflecting light, so I often find even the nightlight setting to be enough for getting around in the wee hours.

Just make sure you don't accidentally... uh, hydrate your Candle! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

It'll handle a couple raindrops, but isn't really designed to be waterproof (fluidproof?), as you noted in your review. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## snook (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

This is exactly what I've been looking for.

Great idea, and nice execution!

Could I please order two of these?

Please add me to your list.


.
.
.
.


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

Snook, you're on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And thank you for your kind words. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
Craig, thank you for your review. I know these things take you some time to prepare, and lots of us appreciate it. In the case of the Milky Candle specifically, your efforts will help folks understand what a Milky Candle really is far better than they otherwise might. Thank you sir! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
You're more than welcome Scott!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I tried the same test as I did the night before last, only last night I kept the Milky Candle on "low".
Here's an excerpt from what I posted to the Milky Candle page on my website this morning:
_
Although I could shine it like a flashlight to find my way to the bathroom, find the commode, sit, then set it on the counter to do my business & flush, then use it like a flashlight again and find my way back to bed; it was overall a bit more difficult than it was with the unit set to "medium". If you use your Milky Candle for this purpose and keep it on "low", set it to "medium" when you first sit up in bed and pick it up; do your thing, and then set it back to "low" when you return to bed. 
_


----------



## Interlude (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run...*

I feel like I might be on the list already, but if not, please put me on /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Gene (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

I've had one now for a few months and the thing really grows on you! I like it and it is a super 123 cell drainer. The "nightlight" or low setting doesn't work any longer and I rarely used it but it would be nice if it still worked. I've been looking and looking for a cap that would fit over the entire top and protect the LED and double as a diffuser. No luck. I did discover that a 1 1/2" schedule 40 plumbing slip cap works great as a protective cap and slips right over the top and is tight. I sanded down the top so it's now flat and it even makes for a more stable base when slipped over the bottom of the MC when it's in use.


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

Milky, put me down for one, if available. Thanks,

Bill


----------



## Doug Owen (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Gene said:*
The "nightlight" or low setting doesn't work any longer and I rarely used it but it would be nice if it still worked. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Gene,

This is most disturbing. While it's always possible I put a bad solder joint into one of the boards, I did check them all fairly carefully and it's been a long time since I've messed up such a simple solder job. Looking at the board layout, it would have to be one end or the other of the 47 ohm resistor. It's the center of the three to the left of the LED and behind the switch if you hold it with switch in front, the only one with a yellow stripe next to violet.

The resistor itself (a carbon film unit running at a very small fraction of ratings) could of course have failed. It could also be a mechanical stress issue to do with the potting itself (none of the prototypes were potted, and I'm unsure of exactly what Scott ended up using after he'd assembled them).

Anyway, check it out. If you'd care to PM me, I'm happy to help sort it out (and very interested in what could have failed). If you'd like to send it to me, I'm pretty sure I can fix it, even if it's potted in from the top (that is I should be able to effect repair from the under side).

Like I said, the circuit and board are designed to be long lived, to loose such a function on even one of such a small lot is a big concern to me.

Thanks for bringing it up, please keep me advised?

Doug Owen


----------



## Doug Owen (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

As a follow up, it should be easy enough to measure the 47 ohm resistor. It's fairly easy to find the switch terminals on the bottom of the PCB. With the switch in the center (low) setting you should measure the 47 ohms from the center pin to the ring around the edge of the board that mates up with the copper foil strip from battery minus.

If you measure it at those two points we have a real corker here as the 47 ohms is 'in circuit'.......

Speak up if you have problems.

Doug Owen


----------



## MY (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

Mr. Spit, please put my name on the list. Looks like I have been throwing away "perfectly good" 123s for some time.

Thanks.


----------



## rfdancer (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

I may be on the list, but if not then please put me down for two.


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

Whew! Take a few days away from my fellow flashaholics, and get buried in a flurry of posts! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

Let's see here...

*Interlude*, for some reason you weren't on the list... but now you are! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*Gene*, sorry to hear about your broken nightlight mode. I looked at all the boards myself and Doug's soldering seemed first rate. Plus I tested each Milky Candle multiple times both before and after potting. How yours ended up like that is beyond me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It's possible that the additional potting you did might have jarred something loose, or perhaps you got a defective resistor. Should be fairly easy to fix for someone with decent soldering skills. If you try it yourself, just be VERY careful when unscrewing that top endcap, as it's possible that a drop or two of potting compound might be stuck to the copper contact strip running from the bottom, and you don't want to rip that by accident!

BTW, thanks for the status report, and the kind words. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Bullzeyebill*, you're listed for one. Thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

*Doug*, I used a relatively thin layer (1/8 inch deep?) of clear casting resin for potting, and tested all the units both before and after the potting (as mentioned above). Gene added some epoxy potting mixed with glow powder (I think), though I'm not clear on how that would have damaged anything. Good thought on measuring the resistance from the battery contact points!

*MY* and *rfdancer*, got it. You're both on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## Gene (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

Hi Doug,
You and Scott are too kind! Let me explain this further. No Doug, your soldering is not at fault at all here. What the problem is, is the switch will no longer slide over to the nightlight mode. It switches freely between the right or high mode and to the middle or medium mode but just won't slide any further to the left or nightlight mode. Something's blocking it and I don't want to try and force it over. I lubed the switch with some LPS greaseless electrical cleaner/lube but it didn't help and I can't see anything blocking it. 

As Milky alluded to, I did go over the potting with a heavy coat of green glow powder mixed with clear nail polish. It's pretty neat in that the top will now glow so you can locate the MC when it's turned off in the dark. All three modes worked fine after I coated it for a good long while. It just recently wouldn't switch over any longer to the nightlight mode.

Like I said earlier, I really like and use this thing a lot and you guys did a great job! I've taken it camping several times and it really has been a useful tool. If you gents have any thoughts on how to maybe get the switch freed up, I'd appreciate it.


----------



## kongfuchicken (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

Why am I always so late to notice?!?
Please put me down for one of these if still available.
TY


----------



## Doug Owen (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

[ QUOTE ]
*Gene said:*
Hi Doug,
You and Scott are too kind! Let me explain this further. No Doug, your soldering is not at fault at all here. What the problem is, is the switch will no longer slide over to the nightlight mode. It switches freely between the right or high mode and to the middle or medium mode but just won't slide any further to the left or nightlight mode. Something's blocking it and I don't want to try and force it over. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Gene,

Thanks for the update. This makes a bit more sense, although you're confused about the switch, the center position is low, medium is to one side (adds 10 ohms), high the other (adds 2.2 ohms). In each case this is in addition to the 47 ohms always 'in circuit'. You're missing either high or medium. If you have a meter, you can measure the current at the bottom end (between the foil strip and the minus end of the lower cell) to tell which.

It must be something mechanical fouling the action. I suspect there's a bit of fingernail polish in the works? Can you see anything? Is the black part of the switch totally free of epoxy and your fingernail polish/glow powder? If so, we should be able to carefully remove the top of the switch, disassemble a new one, and rebuild yours in place (since it's potted, it'll be tought to remove the lower body).

Anyway, double check what range you lost, we may be able to sort it out yet.

Nice to know one of my solder joints didn't cause the problem....this time...

Doug Owen


----------



## milkyspit (Mar 31, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

kongfuchicken, you're on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## olephart (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

If the list is still open, I would like two.

Thank you.


----------



## milkyspit (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

Olephart, you're on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Things are progressing, but slowly. I've been tinkering with some enhancements for the next run, muahahahahahaaaaa... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## daloosh (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

I've been reading and watching this thread for many months now, and it took this long to come to the conclusion that I need one of these! Please add me to the list if possible.
Thanks
daloosh


----------



## milkyspit (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

Daloosh, you're now on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## rfdancer (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS)*

Scott - The longer this takes the more I want. Please add one more to my request if it's not too much trouble. Thanks


----------



## Blades (May 1, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Anymore info on the single cell 123a's in a film canister lights??



Blades


----------



## milkyspit (May 1, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Rfdancer, you got it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Blades, right now the circuit in the Milky Candle won't boost the voltage, so a single 123 cell won't drive the LED at full power. However, you could easily attach an LED to a 123 cell and run it in direct drive inside a film canister... it wouldn't be regulated, but should keep running for a pretty long time. In Milky Candle terms, a fresh 123 cell would probably run at roughly the Milky Candle's "medium" output level, and gradually drop its output closer to "nightlight" level. Hope this helps! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## naromtap (May 1, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

If you see the bandwagon it's normally too late....hey Milky am I in time for a candle?


----------



## milkyspit (May 1, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Naromtap, you're not too late. You are now on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I've been keeping a standing wait list for anyone interested in Milky Candle(s) from the next run. When the time comes, I'll be contacting the folks on the wait list for first dibs, and only offer them for general sale if the number of units built exceeds the number sold through the wait list. IMHO it's the fairest way to handle things.


----------



## Blades (May 1, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Thanks for the info Scott. Do you have room for one more on your list??
let me know.



Blades


----------



## milkyspit (May 1, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Blades, sure. You're in, sir! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Blades (May 2, 2004)

*Re:Flattened some 123 cells.*

Thanks!! 


Blades


----------



## The_LED_Museum (May 2, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Personally, I think the Milky Candle is a fantastic creation, and I'm very pleased that Scott is building them.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crackup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## DoubtingBeliever (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Milky,
I'm new to this group and enjoying things like your creation immensely. Any chance of still getting on the list for a candle?

Het beste,
Roger


----------



## milkyspit (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Roger, sure. You're listed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Turd_Ferguson (May 8, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Would you mind putting me on the list for the next batch of candles? I seem to be collecting quite a few batteries that I'd like to try get every last drop out of. This seems like the ticket to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## milkyspit (May 9, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

TwoGun, got it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Thanks for the kind words, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## DSpeck (May 10, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Milkyspit, please add me to your waiting list for the 'Candles. I would like 2 or 3 of them. They'd be great as camping nightlights.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## flashworm (May 10, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

milkyspit, count me in for 2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## milkyspit (May 10, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

DSpeck and flashworm, got you both on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## MY (May 11, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

OK, I have talked myself into needing one. Please put me on the list.


----------



## milkyspit (May 12, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

MY, you're listed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## rfdancer (May 26, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Scott what's the status of the MilkyCandle? It's been almost a month and a half since you've posted anything on it.


----------



## naromtap (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Milky can you put me down for a couple of these?

Cheers,

Pat.


----------



## Corolla (Jun 12, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

I probually missed it but what is the (expected)price?


----------



## milkyspit (Jun 12, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Naromtap, you're down for a couple. Thanks for your support! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Corolla, the first run sold for $23 each plus shipping, give or take a dollar or so due to fluctuations in parts cost. For the next run, which will involve a much larger number of Milky Candles, a completely new and more efficient circuit is being designed. Price? My guess is that it will end up falling somewhere in the $29-39 range per unit. Please don't hold me to that! But right now I think that's a pretty safe estimate, and as always I'll try to bring the price as low as feasible.

BTW, everyone on the wait list will be offered the new units as they become available, in the order that folks joined the list. Some people have been waiting a VERY long time! Hopefully they'll be pleased with the product.

Anyway, thanks all for your patience! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## oscartrucker (Jun 12, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

dear sir please include me for 2 units.thanks


----------



## felder (Jun 12, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Stick me on the list for two of these please.


----------



## milkyspit (Jun 12, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Oscartrucker and felder, you're both on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## TheBeam (Jun 12, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Put me on for one.


----------



## AK (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Please put me down for one as well.


----------



## milkyspit (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

TheBeam, you've been on the list for a while. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Still on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

AK, you're listed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Minjin (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Just checking to make sure I'm on the list... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Two comments. First, if you're going to use a white LED, please leave the option for the user to solder on a red LED and switch. This would make a great nightlight and red would be a little better in that respect. More efficient and better on the eyes.

Secondly, what do you guys think about using other batteries with this? I inevitably have a bunch of batteries that come from lights that I'm sure still have more juice in them. If at all possible, I'd like to solder on a plug to allow external battery packs. Do I really need to worry about making sure that the batteries are all at the same charge? If I have a whole bunch of old AAs(lets say 12) and I divide them into three banks of four in series, do I really need to worry about one bank eventually trying to charge the other bank?

The other benefit of having an external plug would be to make it easy to use with rechargeables and a solar cell. 

I dun know. Just thinking aloud.

Thanks.

Mark


----------



## milkyspit (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Minjin, yup, you're on the list! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regarding the red LED, I was originally thinking along the lines of having a socket for the LED itself, so the user could choose whichever one they wanted. The downside to the socket is that it makes assembling the boards a little more troublesome, and the socketed connection itself is inherently less reliable than an LED soldered directly into the board. Plus my own testing and that of a few others found that a white LED driven at VERY low levels, provides plenty of light and runs for a LOOOOONG time! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif The initial pilot run of Milky Candles was running its lowest setting, "nightlight mode," for roughly 1000 hours in regulation using a fresh pair of 123 cells, and the new circuit will run for much longer than even that. Then again, there's no technical reason that the circuit couldn't use pretty much any LED... white, red... even a Luxeon driven at very low levels! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

I suppose maybe I could have a certain number of boards available with a red LED rather than white? Or maybe sell the boards themselves for those inclined to tinker? I don't have any sense of how much interest there might be in those options. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Regarding other battery configurations, the new circuit will actually accommodate pretty much any configuration within reason. It'll be a buck switching topology, so the main requirement would be that the voltage supplied exceed Vf of the LED... otherwise the circuit would fall into direct drive. So with a white Nichia, 2x123 works, as would 4AAA, 4AA, 4C, 4D, 6AA, 3x123, 2xCR2, and many more. It's the housing itself that is specifically designed for 2x123.

I'll follow MR Bulk's lead in saying flat out that this 2x123 run will most likely be followed with another iteration of the Milky Candle powered by the same circuit, but in a totally different configuration, heh heh... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## TheBeam (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Thanks for remembering me. I would also be interested in a plain board. This sound very interesting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Testing. CPF down?

Bill


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

It seems Sasha was messing with the colors. 
Back on topic: when is the current expected delivery date for these?


----------



## sotto (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Dear Mr. Spit:

I want a Milky Candle.

Thanks.
sotto


----------



## Doug Owen (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

[ QUOTE ]
*Minjin said:*

Two comments. First, if you're going to use a white LED, please leave the option for the user to solder on a red LED and switch. This would make a great nightlight and red would be a little better in that respect. More efficient and better on the eyes.

Secondly, what do you guys think about using other batteries with this? I inevitably have a bunch of batteries that come from lights that I'm sure still have more juice in them. If at all possible, I'd like to solder on a plug to allow external battery packs. Do I really need to worry about making sure that the batteries are all at the same charge? If I have a whole bunch of old AAs(lets say 12) and I divide them into three banks of four in series, do I really need to worry about one bank eventually trying to charge the other bank?


[/ QUOTE ]

Mark,

Interesting thoughts. Red LEDs, of course, have another advantage in that they can be driven from a single 123 cell (in fact the second cell in the MC is a 'waste' in this use). And yes, they make great nightlights. I've got half a dozen spread aournd the house, they need charging once a month (except the ones with photocells, which go two months).

And for sure there's nothing sacred with the 2X123 configuration, any source .1 Volt or more higher than Vf will work fine. If the goal is to drain old cells dry (and it sounds like it is) I see nothing wrong with not matching cells. A large series/parallel bank like you propose should be fine.

As a suggestion, since you can solder, why not go to WorldTorch and order the DIY kit for four dollars (including shipping)? It has all the parts I used in the original MC circuit (except the center off switch, a 'Radio Shack' part), even includes a white LED to get you going. You get a small (roughly 3/4 by 1/2 inch) perf board assembly at any of the three original currents (or any other you'd like if you supply the resistor), all three if you supply a center off switch.

FWIW, I too have the 'two color bug' and have built several versions of this circuit that feature just this (two LEDs and a switch to select them), including one that has snap connectors on it so you can clip it on a 3 or 4 AA cell holder (or a 9 volt battery in a pinch). Not all that useful, but fun to play with.

FWIW, my favorite power source remains 3 NiMH cells. Honest efficiencies over 90% are easily possible. It's also interesting at 12 Volts with 3 (white) LEDs in series.

So, that's my advice, get the DIY kit and invent a candle of your own......

Doug Owen


----------



## milkyspit (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Sotto, I added you to the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Pi, sometime this summer... although I'll be trying for sooner rather than later.

Minjin, one more thing I forgot. With a red LED, it would indeed (at least I'm pretty sure) run in regulation on a single 123 cell, plus with the new circuit, the 2x123 configuration would dramatically extend the runtime.


----------



## rfdancer (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

I'd second the thought from Doug Owen, install two led's, one white and one red, with a selector switch to select the one you wish to use. That would be a very nice addition. Either that or make some available in white and some in red so people can buy two!!


----------



## ws (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Put me down for two in the second run. White LEDs. PM also sent. Thank you.


----------



## ksbman (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

I'd like to get on the list for three, please.


----------



## milkyspit (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

ws and ksbman, you're both on the list. Many thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

I don't rate homemade, modified, and other non-commercial products on my website, but if I did rate them, I'd probably give the Milky Candle 4 1/2 stars. The only thing I can readily see that would knock half a star off is that the Milky Candle is not water-resistant. But for its primary intended use, I don't think it really needs to be.

My page about the Milky Candle is *right here* if you haven't already seen it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## naromtap (Aug 4, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Good review!


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

I've really got to stop reading those reviews. I know this is the tail end of the tail end but . . .could you put me down for one or two? TIA, LT


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

ROFL! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Lunal_Tic, you're in. I've got you down for two units. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## beamer (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Can I still get on the list for two?


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Beamer, sure thing! I'm not sure what shipping to Guam will cost, but for now, you're on the list. Thanks dude! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Scott,

Thanks for the late entry. I know I read it someplace in the previous 21 pages but can't find it now, will it run on one cell and a dummy(and no I don't mean me)? 

Later,
LT


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

LT, the new circuit that will make its appearance in the next build of the Milky Candle should run fine with a single 123 cell plus a spacer, but won't drive the MC at "high" brightness. It would quite possibly drive it at "medium" and definitely would work at "low." So yes, in a pinch a single 123 cell would be fine, but 2x123 would give you the full benefit of the MC circuit plus allow the device to discharge the cells more deeply.

On the other hand, the same circuit driving a red LED (I'm mulling over building a certain number with red rather than white LED) would work absolutely fine with a single 123 cell.

Hope that helps! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## rfdancer (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Ohhhhh. Scott, if you decide to do a red one, add me to that list as well.


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Thanks for the info Scott. I was just wondering how I would handle the "odd man out" syndrome. I use a lot of 1 cell lights; so I probably won't have many evenly discharged cells to put in the light. I was concerned it might not work right. As for red, hmm that sounds very interesting. (Please stop coming up with new ideas, at least until I get the first units. At this rate I'll never be able to complete the requests.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Later,
LT


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

I've been out of new CR123A cells for a month or two, so I've been feeding used, pretty much dead ones to my Milky Candle.

The "high" mode typically doesn't work well (not at its designed power), but "medium" and "low" work fine, for at least several days per set. So I know it suckles the last milliamp out of them, and I don't feel guilty about getting rid of them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Very often one cell runs dead before the other, so I built myself a quick-n-dirty "Milky tester" that shows at a glance whether a cell is suitable to run in the Milky Candle. Seems to work pretty well, and it means that in a couple seconds I can tell whether I should toss both cells, or keep using one of 'em. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## rfdancer (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Pictures and instructions please!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


----------



## wholeflaffer (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Please put me on the list for one. Thanks!


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

Flaffer, you're on the list my friend. Thank you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

[ QUOTE ]
*rfdancer said:*
Pictures and instructions please!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay Richard, if you were kidding then you REALLY got me, 'cause I just posted a writeup on the Milky Tester that I made! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Anyway, didn't want to pollute this particular thread, so anyone interested can find the Milky Tester writeup, complete with several photos, over here.

It slices! It dices! It cooks a rotisserie chicken! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif Oops, too many infomercials during late night modding sessions. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Well, take a look if you like! Here's a quick little teaser photo...







/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## rfdancer (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: Milky Candle Pilot Run... (SOME NEW PHOTOS).*

No, I wasn't kidding. Thank you.


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Aug 20, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott,

I was tinkering with another project and thought of something. Will a plastic 35mm film can fit over the MC? Also do you think it would be hard to put a photo sensor on it to make it automagically come on when it gets dark? This could end up being my bestest travel buddy.

TIA,
LT


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 21, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

LT, a film canister probably won't fit over the top of the MC (I'll check it out later), but oddly enough, the plastic cap from a bottle of Coca Cola does! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif At least it does with the bottles they sell here in the States. I believe someone in another thread mentioned that a particular brand of bottled water has a translucent cap, so maybe that would be the way to go with a travelin' MC. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

To make the bottle cap fit, the stock endcap needs to be unscrewed, which would leave the circuit board free. Because the circuit board needs to sit firmly against the battery tube for good electrical contact, a little modding might be necessary to make some kind of little pillar, or spacer or something, so the bottle cap would pin the board against the battery tube when screwed down. Also, the switch would be UNDER the bottlecap, so you'd need to unscrew it to change the output level. Maybe that's not such a big deal if you're happy with one particular brightness level and don't change it often.

Now, regarding the photo sensor, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif I think it's definitely doable, but not in time for this next build. The circuit for the second run of Milky Candles (MC2?) is very different from the old one, and since the design is essentially complete and testing well, I'd be hesitant to go back and rework it at this point. I do know some people had built prototypes of modded first generation circuits that incorporated photocells, and they did seem to work. Maybe the MC3 will see such a feature in the production build... hmm... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

As it is, MC1 could run in nightlight mode for 1000 hours, so leaving it on all the time actually isn't that big a deal. And MC2 just might run a little bit longer than MC1 did... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Aug 22, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott,

I didn't realize the MC was so small; looks bigger in the pix. I could probably mod the film can the way I have for my old infinity, knock a 20mm hole in it an "friction fit" it to the head. I'm just trying to keep the little guy safe from inadvertant trips to the floor and spreading the light around a bit. As for the photo cell, sorry, I didn't mean for you to have to do it. It's just an errant thought that leaked out of my head, besides I'm photon cheap. 

Only 41 days in nite mode, hmm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif not sure that's enough. My beef jerky supply is 45 days. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Guess I'll have to carry a <red> MC too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

I'm really looking forward to these. Thanks again,
John


----------



## Hallis (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

n00b here. This is actually my first post on this forum. I'll take one of the MC2's. In your tester thread you meantioned you might include a testor at an additional little charge? If it's not over $10 i'll take one of those also. Does this price include the 2x123 cells? If not where can i purchase them and the appropriate charger if applicable. 

Im sorry if this all has already been answered but i didnt want to read every post in 23 pages. lol, just tried to get as many juicy bits as possable.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Hello Hallis, and welcome to CPF! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif I've got you on the list for two MC2's and possibly a tester. As far as the 123 cells, the MC2 is designed to take ordinary, non-rechargeable 123's, although I guess it would also work fine with the rechargeable variety. However, rechargeables aren't a requirement, so they're not included with the MC2, and neither is a charger. You could inquire at JSBurlys.com about rechargeable 123 cells if you like.

As far as regular (non-rechargeable) 123 cells, I'd say the two best sources would be BatteryStation.com for $1 each (special price extended to CPFers) or SureFire.com for $1.25 each in boxes of 12, with free shipping if your total order is large enough.

I suspect that many folks will use their 123 cell discards from other lights in the Milky Candle, and they should work well in there. I've been doing that for quite a while now, and I can get a few days of full brightness, or weeks (months?) in nightlight mode from cells that have already become too weak to operate in some of my other 123 cell lights. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, thanks for your interest! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## Hallis (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

thanks for the reply Milkyspit, hehe but i only need one MC2. Are there any pictures of the revised prototype or an expected arrival date of the first production models? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Or do the pictures in your opening post reflect the end result of what the MC2 will look like also?

P.S. Im really pushing for one of those testers /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott, put me down for a battery tester, depending on price. Thanks,

Bill


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Hallis, my bad! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif For some reason my eyes saw ONE, but my brain read TWO. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

I've got a prototype here that's functionally very similar to what the production MC2 will be, but it uses a couple different parts from what the production model will have. As for the remainder of the light, it will be in the same housing as MC1, so overall it'll look pretty much the same.

As far as arrival date, I've been trying for sometime by the end of the summer, or early autumn at latest. Some of this depends on coordinating with the schedules of others who also have their own projects to tend to, but I'm doing the best I can on that.

Bill, you're down for a tester. Heck, I didn't even decide to MAKE these, and already people are asking for them! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif Now I know what MR Bulk must feel like. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


----------



## Hallis (Aug 23, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Thanks Scott. don't rush. I've got plenty of time. Looks like these testors are fairly popilar. And they arent even out for purchase lol. If you can throw one together for me it doesnt really matter to me what color the LED is. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Kevin K (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott, Is it possible for me to get on the list for 1 Milky Candle ? Thanks.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Sure Kevin, got ya on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Kevin K (Aug 24, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Thank you Scott. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## felder (Aug 26, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I'll take a tester if they are made available.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Felder, I noted in the list that you want a tester. Yes, I'm leaning toward making them available as well, though probably an optional add-on. Anybody with a decent digital multimeter (DMM) can measure the flash amps on their 123 cells to figure out if they'll still run in the Milky Candle, but the tester does make the task quick and painless. I've been using my little prototype tester for a while now, and it's been great so far.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Hallis (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Man i cant wait to get my hands on one of these /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gifWill give me the excuse i need to order those Li-Ion 123's and buy a whole bunch of CR123's from Battery Station


----------



## PeterW (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I ran up a very crappy milky-tester. You have to hold the wires to the cell ends..... where the hell do you get CR123 battery holders?!?!?!?!

I tried some flat CR123's, around 0.1 flashamps (approx 9A new). And it lit the tester. Then I shortcircuited the cell with some wire and held it for a good minute.... FLAT!!!

And the darn thinggave the same answer. These CR123 take a lot of killing, suppose only the milky candle can finish them off properly?!

Cheers

PEter

PS Any idea about costings of the candle/tester as yet??


----------



## Hallis (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Only thing im really worried about is the FBI or US Customs thinking that Scott is mailing massive ammounts of pipe bombs,, lol.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Peter, I'm glad you got similar results with your homemade Milky tester. Now I know I'm not crazy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

A battery with flash amps reading of 0.1A *will* successfully function in the MC2. Of course, you wouldn't expect the runtime of a fresh cell, but it would still give you at least a few hours on high or a few DOZENS of hours in nightlight mode. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Digikey carries the 123 cell holders. They're listed as Digikey part number "BH2/3A-2-ND" and cost $0.73 each, with quantity discounts starting at a minumum quantity of 10. The thing that really stinks, though, is the shipping you'll pay if that's all you order... shipping will cost way more than the holders themselves! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Group buy? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Pricewise, I won't have a final number until I've got all the parts here... but pressed for a guess, I'd say the MC2 will end up in the $29-39 range, and the tester perhaps $10-15. The price on the tester is IMHO a little high, but the main issue is that it requires some tedious assembly, which will take time. Also, the little box itself comes from Radio Shack and is priced a little higher than I'd like to see. But maybe I'll figure out a revised design that's easier to slap together... if so, I will of course push the pricing lower. One of the goals here is to avoid the high price tags of the boutique lights here on CPF. Don't get me wrong; I really appreciate those lights, as well as the efforts of their creators, and like many around here have bought more than a few! But the point of the Milky Candle is to keep the pricing somewhat lower. It's always a balancing act between getting good quality components, earning a teensy bit for my own labor (gotta take my wife out to dinner once in a while, or she might cutoff my flashlight purchases!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif and meanwhile making the end result affordable for as many as possible.

Okay, I'm rambling. Sorry about that! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

Hallis, imagine how much worse the pipe bomb thing would be if I were mailing out Milky Candles built in GALVANIZED pipe! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif


----------



## MSaxatilus (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## wasabe64 (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*

Hallis, imagine how much worse the pipe bomb thing would be if I were mailing out Milky Candles built in GALVANIZED pipe! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd LOVE one in galvanized pipe! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


----------



## Hallis (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

[ QUOTE ]
*wasabe64 said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*

Hallis, imagine how much worse the pipe bomb thing would be if I were mailing out Milky Candles built in GALVANIZED pipe! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd LOVE one in galvanized pipe! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

lol so would I, talk about a durable light, But that would drive the price up for materials as well as manufacturing since galvanized pipe is just a little harder to cut than PVC. And then he'd REALLY catch holy hell from the FBI. lol.

I dont wanna pay $40 just to see Milky have to deal with the FBI.. hmmmm... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleye11.gif lol na,, id rather have my candle. lol


----------



## sotto (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Can I please have mine in polished copper pipe with my name engraved on the side in antique cursive script?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## Hallis (Aug 27, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

lol,, probably not but im sure you can get PVC white and your name on the side in near illegable black sharpie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I'd like one of the CR123A cell testers, please.

On at least a couple of occasions, I've put used CR123A cells in my Milky Candle, only to have it go out not too far down the road because one of the cells pooped out a lot more quickly than the other.

Please PM me with price and availability.


----------



## PeterW (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Excellent news. Yes I am about to try to make a 123 holder by chopping down an AA holder and reassembling with epoxy. Also I have just lashed up a 6 CR123 holder for another project I am going to to post in the next day or so.

PEterW


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Craig, PM sent! Hope it helps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Hallis (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

yay for MC2's, /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif hope the boards get done soon


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
Craig, PM sent! Hope it helps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
PM replied to, and Paypal on the Waypal!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/happy14.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## maddog (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

could you show an up dated list?

cuz, i should be there .......just want to be sure.

thanks


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Maddog, you're on the list for two Milky Candles. No worries! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

In case the above few posts between Craig (The_LED_Museum) and me confused anyone, they involved building a custom Milky tester for him. He's one of the small number of recipients of the initial pilot run of Milky Candles (I'll call them MC1 to avoid confusion with the upcoming build). I'd be happy to build a Milky tester for any other recipients of an MC1 candle, though they'll be hand-built on a case-by-case basis, so the cost might be a little higher than if I were mass producing them. Still, MC1 owners, PM me if you're interested in a tester! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for the vast majority of you who are patiently waiting for MC2 (and *THANK YOU* for your patience), it's looking more and more like I'll end up offering these testers as an optional purchase. Actually, the tester itself is undergoing some revision, and at the time of MC2 release I may have a better, more versatile tester capable of checking ALL your 123 cells, heh heh. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

Wait, did I say that out loud? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Hallis (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

nice nice. very much looking forward to getting my pipe-bo... i mean, MC2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## maddog (Aug 31, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

cool....thanks


----------



## The_LED_Museum (Sep 2, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Received my Milky Tester a little awhile ago; thank you Scott!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
PM sent, BTW.


----------



## Hallis (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

So how many people are on the list for the MC2? hope im on for the next run of them.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Hallis, I'm not sure how many PEOPLE are on the list, but there are 117 units requested on the wait list as of this moment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif But no worries, the idea is to have enough components on hand to accommodate everyone who wants the MC2. It might take a while to get yours built if you're on tail end of the list, but you'll definitely get it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Hallis (Sep 3, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Alrighty. Just give me the word when you're ready to rock. If they arent too hard to assemble maybe you could sent out MC2 Kits. And just let us assemble them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif If that doesnt give away any design secrets anyway.


----------



## Hallis (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

How's things Scott? I just realized you said 117 units. thats a pretty nice run /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Ralf (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott,

whats the schematic difference to the MC1 ciruit?

Just newly interested in low power LED lights as 
I have build myself a DIY pak-lite and came across
this huge thread /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers
Ralf


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Ralf, the MC2 uses a completely different circuit. MC1 was using a low drop out (LDO) linear regulation circuit, while MC2 will use a switching downconverter to make more efficient use of the batteries. Hope I've got my terminology right! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*







The above teaser photo is the first view of an early prototype MC2 completely built and running. (Plus I just thought the halo effect was kinda cool.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I'm presently ironing out a couple remaining issues as far as the new board, after which it will be time to place the big, scary order. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Biggest build I've ever done by far, and it makes me nervous. But the board does seem to work nicely, and so far it's been meeting all expectations with flying colors. I have no idea what the usual turnaround time might be to order a bunch of circuit boards and have them assembled, but soon, hopefully, cross your fingers...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif

Here's another view of the MC2 prototype, this time with a MiniMag standing to the left to give you a sense of the relative size of the housing.






As far as the Milky Tester, at this moment Craig of The LED Museum has the only working prototype. Meanwhile, I'm putting together a more advanced version that I'm hoping will allow testing of 123 cells for fitness to use in ANY light... well, that might be a bit of a stretch, but the advanced version will be switch selectable to test a 123 cell for suitability in the MC2 in nightlight mode, in the MC2 running at highest brightness, and to see if the cell's sufficiently fresh for use in higher demand 123 cell lights, like SureFire incandescents, Arc LS, etc.

So things are moving along... slowly, but surely! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, got a couple "distractions" in the meantime, one being my wife is 7 months pregnant with our third child (so I spend some time playing "Mr. Mom" to let her rest), the other being that I'm in the midst of a job search.

Say, anybody in northern NJ or eastern PA got a job for me? I'm a computer programmer with a variety of technical and managerial skills. I just want a job within reasonable commuting distance that earns me enough to pay the bills. (Well, hopefully the bills plus a bit extra for a rainy day.)
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## MSaxatilus (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Thanks for the update Scott. 

If I hear of anything on the job front, I'll let you know.

Congrats on the new addition to the family. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif


----------



## Ralf (Sep 9, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott, thanks for the information.

Cheers
Ralf


----------



## iceweasel (Sep 10, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Looks great so far Scott. Hang in there.

Best wishes,
russell


----------



## Hallis (Sep 17, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Thanks orthe updated pics scott. If you were in Texas i could help you fin a job but im afriad i dont know of anything in NJ. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Oh, Have you ever been to Lombardi's Pizzaria in NY? I only see it on fod network specials every other time i turn on the TV, lol.


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Oct 30, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Any updates? My pile of used 123a batteries is growing ever larger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

[ QUOTE ]
*Pi_is_blue said:*
Any updates? My pile of used 123a batteries is growing ever larger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been ironing out a couple issues that ironically appeared when I wasn't even looking for them. One is that I may have FINALLY found a long-sought-after switch for the MC2, and the other is that I may have found a brighter, more efficient LED for it. Doing some in-house testing with the LED, and the switch is on order. After that, it's off to the big, bad world of board manufacture and contract assembly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Got a much better update, too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Look over here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif


----------



## Hallis (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Ahh, updates is good, been wondering if you'd forgoten all about the MC2 or not. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Shane


----------



## Neg2LED (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Milky, ok ya got me, i want one!

neg


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Neg, you're now officially on the wait list. Hoping to crank out enough MC2's for everyone pretty soon... until then, hang tight! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## HarryN (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Ok Scott - Put me on the list for 2 each. I have seen the light - or lack thereof. (2x 123 version)


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

HarryN, I've got you listed for 2 of the "MC2" Milky Candles as of this moment. If I misread your request, please leet me know! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## oldtimer (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I didn't read the whole thread but what's the price on one of these things? I'm interested in one.


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

B2p, the exact price for the MC2 build hasn't been finalized, but I'd guess it would be somewhere between $25 and $40. That said, one goal of the project is to keep the cost as low as possible, so I'll do my best on that front.

If you tell me how many you think you might like, I'll add you to the wait list. Either way, thanks for the interest! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott,

Will you notify us when you're ready to do the dirty or will we need to keep checking back here? I really don't want to miss these.

Thanks,
LT


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

LT, well... both! Here's how to make sure you don't miss the MC2 build, in three easy steps... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

1. Make sure you're receiving email updates to this thread by clicking on the "Favorite Thread!" link at the bottom left of this page.

2. When we're ready for prepayments, I'll post to this thread... actually, I'll probably start a new thread but link to it from this one, so everybody knows about it.

3. I'll also start PMing folks when the time comes, but it IS a pretty large list at this point, so in the event that I miss you, you'll still know when it's time for prepayments from this thread.

It remains to be seen whether I'll just start processing the whole list (well over 100 units) at once, MR Bulk style, or subdivide it into groups of 25 or so, like Darkzero did with his sputtered Mag reflectors. But one way or another, I'll get it done! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW, thanks, everybody, for your patience. I'm trying to deliver you a really nice product that even goes beyond the capabilities of the original Milky Candle, and that's taken more time than I thought. Hopefully, though, you'll find the resulting product worth the wait!


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Thanks for the info. I'll keep my eyes open.
-LT


----------



## Neg2LED (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Milky: i read the thread, and it turns out that the MilkyCandle is just a Supa-Low-Drop-Out Regulator, right?

if so, i could prolly whip me up one!

Square Torg, here i come!

neg


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 16, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Neg, you must have been up all night reading the entire thread! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

The original Milky Candle contained an LDO circuit. The upcoming MC2 will *not* use such a circuit. On 2x123 the old circuit was actually pretty inefficient, believe it or not. The new circuit will make better use of the energy left in those cells. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif

And what the heck does "Square Torg" mean? I thought "Torg" WAS a square in Swedish.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


----------



## Neg2LED (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

i mean torch - torch, torg - same diff??

neg


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Did this die or get continued in a different place. I'm still interested if it's still a go.

-LT


----------



## diggdug13 (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I'd like to be added to the list for 2 please. Hopefully I'm not too late.

doug


----------



## Hallis (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Yah Scott *poke poke* whats up? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif

Shane


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Thanks for the poke Shane! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Diggdug13, you're not too late... I've got you added to the list for two MC2's. Thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lunal_Tic... and all others who have shown EXTREME PATIENCE with me and my ever-so-slow tinkering... THANK YOU for that! I vow that the MC2 will indeed become a reality, and you folks are going to be glad you waited for it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif But life's intervened with a newborn from around Halloween and a new job from around Thanksgiving, plus the much harder-than-expected task of transitioning from being a home-based computer consultant to a 9-5 fulltime employye of someone else's company again! I still don't have the schedule straight, and one of the casualties has been the amount of time I get to mod. Another has been sleep... very bad! I really need to right the ship quickly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

But I'm hopeful! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

As for the MC2: it's gone through some growing pains. Would you believe that I've had a couple prototypes provided by one of our little communities more well-known circuit designers for a number of months now, but still haven't nailed down the final details of the MC2? Sad but true! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I can tell you this: it's looking like the MC2 will be a fairly radical departure from the original Milky Candle... in a good way! I've revisited virtually every aspect of the design, from the level selection switch (which now looks like it's going to be a "Nuwai-style" multiple state pushbutton), to the LED (I'm presently favoring some really nice 10mm LEDs that I uncovered by accident, with great output and a beautiful hotspot... and unlike all others I've seen in this size category, this one still only requires 20mA of current flow!), to the housing itself. On this last point, the PVC tubes have served me well and I've got about 80 of them stockpiled for MC2 builds, but recently discovered a completely different housing that promises to be much shorter, a little wider, easier to build out, easier to weatherproof, and cooler looking. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif And what is this magical alternative housing? Of all things... it's a pencil sharpener! With the sharpening part removed, of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The circuit itself, as it stands in the prototypes I've got, is a thing of beauty. Believe it or not, between the new circuit and the new 10mm LED, the MC2 will be able to provide more light with less current flow, and run as much as 50% longer than the original! For perspective, remember that the original was capable of running in regulation in nightlight mode for 1000 hours... now add 50% to that figure, and the new circuit becomes quite remarkable! Hope I haven't pissed off the designer with my delays, but it's an inherent character trait of mine: as a friend once said of me, I'd sooner release nothing at all than release a crummy product. That's why I didn't take prepayment from you guys! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif I knew something like this would probably happen. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## jbfla (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Let me add to your workload..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Add me to the list for one MS2.

JB


----------



## Codeman (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I"m happy to wait for it to be right.


----------



## MrMom (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I'm in.


----------



## Lunal_Tic (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

No worries here Scott. The extra time allows me to build up the proper amount of fodder for this little critter.

-LT


----------



## diggdug13 (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott, 
thank you for addding me, I'm a very very patient man (comes from being in the Military and all the dang lines) so take all the time you want.

doug


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

MrMom and jbfla, thanks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif You're both down for one MC2 apiece.


----------



## HarryN (Feb 17, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott, when you get a chance, can you update the first post with an overview of Q / A ? I have read this long post before, but I am sure I am missing things - like 1 x 123 or 2 x 123 ?, etc.


----------



## alauda (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I have been following this for ages. Could you please put me down for. 

The whole project has been fascinating. Wish I had your knowledge.

Tony


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

alauda, got you added to the list. Many thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

HarryN, dumb question: what do you mean? I should add a FAQ to the initial post covering various questions that have been addressed throughout the thread?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Since this thread was originally about the prior version of the Milky Candle, and it's become pretty long, what I may do this weekend is put together the FAQ that (I think) Harry's suggesting (great idea!) and place it in the start of a new thread specifically for the MC2 and the Milky Tester. Hmm...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


----------



## XFlash (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Sir,
Could you put me down for one.
Thank You


----------



## karlthev (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I couldn't seem to find a post for the cost (??)but, please put me down for two anyway!


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

XFlash and karlthev, you're both on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Incidentally, anticipate a cost of roughly $40 for the MC2. I can't guarantee the price will be within that limit, but I'm about 80% certain the final price will be lower... so if you estimate using that number, you should be in good shape when it comes time for payment! Besides... $40 is a nice, round number, and I like round numbers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## MY (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

I would like two please.

Regards.


----------



## karlthev (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Thanks! Round numbers (particularly the ones you used) are just fine!


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Got ya, MY.


----------



## gl22man (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Milky please put me down for 2 and send pm when ready for paypal,as i have a bad memory and may forget..By the way i have the master blaster that you built out of the EL blaster jr. . This is one hella bright light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Mike..


----------



## Fat_Tony (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Hi, Scott. I know that I am really late to this party, but I just started reading the "Homemade and Modified lights" forum recently. I find this project/product to be fascinating. I was wondering if you would do me a huge favor, and put me down for 4 MC2s? TIA, Scott.


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Fat_Tony and gl22man, got you guys covered. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Off topic, but... gl22man, so you've got the Master Blaster, eh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif It's designed to throw caution to the wind and just pump out as many photons as possible... you know, the "good 'til it's gone" philosophy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif Have fun with it... and here's one bit of trivia... the beam it pumps out is easily over 7000 lux at one meter in intensity, which is roughly the same as MR Bulk's famous (around CPF at least) Space Needle II mods, which were (and still are!) some of the longest-throwing LED lights ever made. Use it proudly! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Fat_Tony (Feb 22, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott, due to my extremely short attention span, when I asked last week to be put on the list for 4 MC2s, I also forgot to ask if you could put me down for 4 Milky Testers, too. Please let me know if this is possible. TIA again, Scott.


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 22, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Fat_Tony, duly noted. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## XFlash (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Hi Scott,
Same for me I forgot about the Milky Tester.
Could you add 1 to my MC2? 
Thanks Again


----------



## Hallis (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott,

Bump my order up to 2, still with 1 Milky Tester, and i'd recomend starting a NEW thread before a mod locks this one and starts it themselves. this way you can have the initial post and everything.

Shane


----------



## Bogus1 (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott,

Please add me to the MC2 list for 1 unit. I must say I initially scoffed at the MC as perhaps the least sexy item in these threads only to realize later it may be the most practical. It's a pleasure reading your threads. Thanks


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

XFlash, Hallis, and Bogus1, your requests as far as MC2 and Milky Tester (MT?) have all been added to the list.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Bogus1, I appreciate the kind sentiments plus your honesty. The concept has always been function over form, though I'll admit that the MC2 is likely to be a sexier beast (relatively speaking of course) than its predecessor. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I will say this: PVC tubing really grows on you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

Believe it or not, I have a one-of-a-kind light called the "Ghetto L1" here at the Milky labs... it uses a Fraen LP optic, a surprisingly bright Q2H star (like a QX0H under the new binning system), the ACTUAL BOARD from a gutted SureFire L1 flashlight (hence the name), and a ghetto tactical tailcap with twist on/off, and push for momentary activation. It runs on a single 123 cell just like the SureFire L1, and it's surprisingly bright! I actually find this light to be very useful. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Hallis, you're right. I'll start a new thread momentarily...


----------



## Vifam (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Scott,
I don't remember if I did, please add me to the list for one Milky Tester. I'm still on the list for one Milky Candle, right?


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Arriving Soon...*

Yessir Jason, you're still on the list for one MC2, and now I've added a request for 1 Milky Tester. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

You're also the last person to get a post into this thread! I'm locking it since it's getting pretty long. *From this point forward, you can follow the MC2 and Milky Tester in the new thread I've started over here. Thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif*


----------

