# 2 stage Clicky tailcap for 6p/G2?



## prof student (Jul 12, 2011)

Greetings. I am looking for a tailcap OR transform the stock Surefire tailcap (6p &/or G2) into a 2 stage tail cap. I will be using a Malkoff drop. 


Questions are:

What tailcaps exist? 
Is there anything to transform the OEM tailcaps into a 2 stage light?
What would the "low" setting be at on either modification? 
Would this also work in incand? 

Thanks.


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## nfetterly (Jul 12, 2011)

AW developed tailcap "guts" that were 3 level with a soft start, he sold them and they were also on lighthound.com. There were two models if my memory serves me right, one for surefire clicky and one for surefire twisty. This was originally developed for high power incan bulbs - there are posts in AWs original thread that I know I made concerning their applicability on LEDs, what I remember is they WILL NOT work on a single cell, they will work on multiple cells, but I cannot remember if it worked on 2 CR123s, it would work with 2 rcr123s (or 2 18650s) I believe.

Do not believe settings were adjustable, but never saw that question before in AWs thread.


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## Roger999 (Jul 12, 2011)

A McE2S switch turns it into the 2 stage light, but there aren't many around, and much less people who are willing to part with it.


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## kramer5150 (Jul 12, 2011)

Roger999 said:


> A McE2S switch turns it into the 2 stage light, but there aren't many around, and much less people who are willing to part with it.


 

this was the one I was thinking of too... OP it was sold through sandwich shoppe. Its not a clicky though, pres lightly for low press firmly for high. Twist the Z41 a little for low, tighten it all the way for hi. Its a GREAT UI... IMHO.

These were hard to find 3-4 years ago, impossible to find now. About as impossible to get as a Malkoff MD2 in gray type III.


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## Erzengel (Jul 13, 2011)

The two stage switch of the AZ2-S should work.


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## prof student (Jul 13, 2011)

nfetterly said:


> AW developed tailcap "guts" that were 3 level with a soft start, he sold them and they were also on lighthound.com. There were two models if my memory serves me right, one for surefire clicky and one for surefire twisty. This was originally developed for high power incan bulbs - there are posts in AWs original thread that I know I made concerning their applicability on LEDs, what I remember is they WILL NOT work on a single cell, they will work on multiple cells, but I cannot remember if it worked on 2 CR123s, it would work with 2 rcr123s (or 2 18650s) I believe.
> 
> Do not believe settings were adjustable, but never saw that question before in AWs thread.


 

Thanks for the tip nfetterly. Is this the one that you are talking about?: http://www.lighthound.com/AW-Softst...P--C--M-series-Tailcaps-version-B_p_2923.html

I just emailed AW regarding if it can be used on an LED. Hopefully he will reply soon.


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## prof student (Jul 13, 2011)

Erzengel said:


> The two stage switch of the AZ2-S should work.



I don't think I have heard of these. Where do you get them? How reliable are they? 

Thanks.


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## Maxbelg (Jul 13, 2011)

I don't have a AZ2-S so have a few questions: If the threads are like on the LX2, A2L they are trapezoid threads and won't work very well on a 6P even if they fit. Can you confirm that the tailcap fits Erzengel?


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## kramer5150 (Jul 13, 2011)

Erzengel said:


> The two stage switch of the AZ2-S should work.



x2... the OP in this thread here was able to use it on a solarforce L2 . Although he does not comment on how precise/snug the fit is.

The L2 does not have square or trapezoid tailcap threads.


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## prof student (Jul 13, 2011)

kramer5150 said:


> x2... the OP in this thread here was able to use it on a solarforce L2 . Although he does not comment on how precise/snug the fit is.
> 
> The L2 does not have square or trapezoid tailcap threads.



What do you mean about square or trapezoid tailcap threads?


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## prof student (Jul 13, 2011)

nfetterly said:


> AW developed tailcap "guts" that were 3 level with a soft start, he sold them and they were also on lighthound.com. There were two models if my memory serves me right, one for surefire clicky and one for surefire twisty. This was originally developed for high power incan bulbs - there are posts in AWs original thread that I know I made concerning their applicability on LEDs, what I remember is they WILL NOT work on a single cell, they will work on multiple cells, but I cannot remember if it worked on 2 CR123s, it would work with 2 rcr123s (or 2 18650s) I believe.
> 
> Do not believe settings were adjustable, but never saw that question before in AWs thread.



Well, AW replied and said it will NOT work with LEDs.  

Any other ideas guys????


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## kramer5150 (Jul 13, 2011)

Here you go...

Standard cut thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_thread#Form

trapezoidal cut thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapezoidal_thread_forms

The latter are better at transmitting heavy torque loads, because it is a shallower "angle" that the transmitted thread force must "combat". A square cut thread transmits a tension/compression load without having to "pass through" the triangular geometry. I am using the wrong words here completely... and I apologize... but I hope this makes sense.

In the CPF world, square cut threads are preferred. Although I am not exactly sure why. The Surefire/solarforce.... even Ultrafire (triangular) threads to me "feel" just as nice as the square cuts in my collection.


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## Maxbelg (Jul 13, 2011)

Trapezoidal threads are preferred for switches because they have less friction and are tougher. Although some makers try to tell us that trapezoid threads are always preferred I have to disagree. For threads that are not supposed to loosen easily (bezel etc) more friction seems better. I think Surefire got it right with the LX2/A2L with trapezoid threads for the tailcap and V-threads for the head.

I was really excited about this tailcap on a 6P, but if the levels are close together it makes little sense as in the link from #9


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## Brasso (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm actually surprised that this particular niche in the market hasn't been exploited yet.


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## kramer5150 (Jul 15, 2011)

Brasso said:


> I'm actually surprised that this particular niche in the market hasn't been exploited yet.



I guess its because there are dozens of multi-mode dropins readily available. its basically just the Malkoff fans that would find it useful... I think


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## think2x (Jul 15, 2011)

I would love to make my C2/M61HCRI a two stage light.


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## nfetterly (Jul 15, 2011)

prof student said:


> Well, AW replied and said it will NOT work with LEDs.
> 
> Any other ideas guys????



I'll give this a shot tomorrow. I know AW did not develop these for LEDs and they are kind of an expensive option and the soft start was really for the incans...., unless he's changed it I'm over 95% positive it will work with a multi cell LED setup.

The one in the link was the one.


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## novice (Jul 17, 2011)

The McE2s was actually for the e-series lights. It was the McC2S that was for the 6P/G2 series.

The maker of those aftermarket switches stopped making them, I have heard, because Surefire claimed they were a patent infringement, and threatened legal action. SF did, however, allow the maker to sell the rest of the already-manufactured inventory.

There might also be the possibility of using the tailcaps from either the G2x Pro, or 6Px pro:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...X-Pro-Thread&p=3554281&viewfull=1#post3554281

see post #262 of the afore-mentioned thread. Forgive me for being too lame to know how to link to that specific post.


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## Roger999 (Jul 17, 2011)

novice said:


> The McE2s was actually for the e-series lights. It was the McC2S that was for the 6P/G2 series.
> 
> The maker of those aftermarket switches stopped making them, I have heard, because Surefire claimed they were a patent infringement, and threatened legal action. SF did, however, allow the maker to sell the rest of the already-manufactured inventory.
> 
> ...


 The 2 mode function of the G2X/6PX Pro is in the head not the tailcap.


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## kosPap (Jul 18, 2011)

Brasso said:


> I'm actually surprised that this particular niche in the market hasn't been exploited yet.



haha! I tried cornering the market but I had no chance....

Anyway *prof student* see my sig for a way to make one of your own.....get a solarforce L2 tailcap, an SMD resistor and some 2-stage swwitches from DX....


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## Max_Power (Jul 18, 2011)

This is why I buy the Malkoff bodies instead of SureFire - I like the 2-stage resistor dimmer that is independent of the tail switch. Sure, PWM might give a little more runtime, but the flicker drives me nuts.

The 2-stage "push harder on the tailswitch for full power" mode sounds interesting, but how do you latch low or high with that interface?


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## jellydonut (Jul 18, 2011)

Brasso said:


> I'm actually surprised that this particular niche in the market hasn't been exploited yet.


 It's because Surefire has patented it.


kramer5150 said:


> I guess its because there are dozens of multi-mode dropins readily available. its basically just the Malkoff fans that would find it useful... I think


 Not really. The two-stage UI is ridiculously superior to the annoying, dime-a-dozen click-to-change lights.

Personally I use a Kroma tailcap on my 6P, which has turned it into my light of choice. I barely ever use any other lights any more.

One of the weaknesses is that it will not work on an 18650 body, be that a bored body, or a Malkoff 6P-compatible body. Only 17mm bodies.. I guess because of the way it contacts the body, dunno. The other is obviously that the tailcap is not for sale anywhere. Surefire won't sell it to you. They'll force other manufacturers to stop selling clones, but they refuse to sell it themselves. I'd tell you how I really feel but that belongs at CPFU...

I lucked out and bought mine at the Marketplace. Keep an eye out, might be more now and again.



Max_Power said:


> The 2-stage "push harder on the tailswitch for full power" mode sounds interesting, but how do you latch low or high with that interface?


 Regardless of the thread title, it is not a clicky, but a twist tailcap. Pressing only gives you momentary light. To get constant light, you twist. Same goes there.. twist slightly for the low level, twist all the way for high.


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## mbw_151 (Jul 18, 2011)

Be careful about the selection of dropin for use with a resistor tailcap. Some lower output dropins will not function on low with a resistor tailcap. I had this experience with a Malkoff M61WLL in a VME head on an LX2 body and tailcap, no output on low. A M61W worked just fine, producing full output on high and a low comparable to the stock LX2 head. I was hoping to obtain this great UI in a lower output long running light with a warm tint, but no dice.


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## prof student (Oct 13, 2011)

Hmm...so, after searching on & off for almost 3 months, still nothing I can find to make a Malkoff in a Surefire a 2 stage light. 

a) Does anyone have any other ideas, on how to make it a clickly 2 level light?

b) what about still using a Malkoff product, but using a different host then, that will allow the Malkoff to be a 2 level light with a clickie tail cap. 

Anyone???


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## jellydonut (Oct 13, 2011)

I stand by my earlier suggestion of trying to track down a Kroma tailcap.


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## Mikeg23 (Oct 13, 2011)

As kospap mentioned there is the option of soldering in a resistor like people used to do with z57 tail cap.
This is not truly a clicky but rather click to change modes and twist for on/off


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## Mikeg23 (Oct 13, 2011)

prof student said:


> b) what about still using a Malkoff product, but using a different host then, that will allow the Malkoff to be a 2 level light with a clickie tail cap.


 
absolutely the MD2 body with hi/low ring will do what you want and it is similar in size to the 6P. Mine was a little bit shorter than 6P/Z58 but then when I took the shrouded tailcap off the MD2 and put on the Z58 the malkoff became quite a bit shorter.


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## dirtech (Oct 15, 2011)

prof student said:


> Well, AW replied and said it will NOT work with LEDs.
> 
> Any other ideas guys????



Just tried a m61w with an aw switch. Worked fine. Not sure if the levels are the same as the m61 driver may affect the driver in the switch or maybe they compete with each other.


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## prof student (Oct 21, 2011)

jellydonut said:


> I stand by my earlier suggestion of trying to track down a Kroma tailcap.



I haven't seen any Kroma tailcaps lately at all. 

How does it work? Is it a 2 stage clicky? High/low or low/high? How reduced is the low? Is it 50% of the high, or 25%, etc...? 

Thanks.


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## prof student (Oct 21, 2011)

Mikeg23 said:


> As kospap mentioned there is the option of soldering in a resistor like people used to do with z57 tail cap.
> This is not truly a clicky but rather click to change modes and twist for on/off



Uhm....yeah.....I am a little inept when it comes to trying stuff like that, soooooo....hence why I was looking for an already built tail cap for a Surefire, or a body that can host a Malkoff drop in and achieve the same results I am looking for.


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## prof student (Oct 21, 2011)

Mikeg23 said:


> absolutely the MD2 body with hi/low ring will do what you want and it is similar in size to the 6P. Mine was a little bit shorter than 6P/Z58 but then when I took the shrouded tailcap off the MD2 and put on the Z58 the malkoff became quite a bit shorter.



So, a [email protected] body,hi/low ring, and a Z58 tail cap WILL change it to a clicky 2 stage tail cap? Or do you have to twist the bezel or something?


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## prof student (Oct 21, 2011)

dirtech said:


> Just tried a m61w with an aw switch. Worked fine. Not sure if the levels are the same as the m61 driver may affect the driver in the switch or maybe they compete with each other.



Oh really????? Hm.....either AW didn't see if it worked, or he just thought it shouldn't work? lol

So, you put the AW inside guts in the tail cap and did it turn it into a 3stage light as it was originaly built for? Or a 2 stage? Any idea at what reduced lumens the lower stage(s) run(s) at? 

Thanks.


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## Mikeg23 (Oct 21, 2011)

The MD2 with high/low ring makes it so that the click is just on/off to achieve high you just tighten up the bezel if you want it to be on low you just loosen the bezel a bit


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## jellydonut (Oct 23, 2011)

prof student said:


> I haven't seen any Kroma tailcaps lately at all.
> 
> How does it work? Is it a 2 stage clicky? High/low or low/high? How reduced is the low? Is it 50% of the high, or 25%, etc...?
> 
> Thanks.


It's the good old Surefire two-stage momentary switch;

Press slightly for momentary low
Press fully for momentary high

Twist slightly for constant-on low
Twist fully for constant-on high

You can find the 6P-compatible two-stage tailcap on the Kroma, the Vampire, and the AZ2. If you keep an eye out on the CPF Marketplace, you might be able to buy one separately. That's how I found mine.


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## BIGLOU (Oct 23, 2011)

Since we are on the 2 stage clicky subject does anybody know if the Elzetta tailcaps fit 6P bodies? There are tailcaps with differrent functions available i.e. clicky, twisty, hi/low and hi/strobe. The Elzetta is one light that I don't have yet and is on my "get list". I have seen the Elzetta tailcaps sold seperately. I might have to order one and find out.


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## greatscoot (Mar 18, 2012)

Tried the 2 stage Elzetta tailcap on my Z2. Tailcap fits but (bummer) does not work.


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## yifu (Mar 19, 2012)

McGizmo used to make two stage McEs2 switches. There's a pair available installed in a Z41 here. http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/sh...cky-2-Stage-60ohm-McC2S-Switches-Modded-Z41-s


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## yifu (Mar 21, 2012)

Ohps, they are sold now. I thought at 100 dollars each for a tailcap they would last a little while but apparently not. Well, they are the only and the best dual stage switch for Surefire hosts and have been out of production for 7 years so they are very rare indeed.


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## Rat6P (Mar 22, 2012)

I am certain I read some where on CPR, or maybe else where that the Jetbeam PC25 tailcap worked on C or P series.
Would give it more than 2 modes though.

Edit: Credit to fyrstormer. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?324243-Jetbeam-PC25-Review


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## Tana (Mar 23, 2012)

Anyone using Croma, Vampire or AZ2 tailcap to add dual stage to aftermarket modules (like Malkoff), can you shed the light which modules are those?

There is a similar thread to this in LED Flashlights discussions and I now have AZ2 tailcap that I would like to use with Malkoff dropins... maybe even open in and try to replace the resistor so I can achieve maybe 50 lumens on low with M61 and still not worry that something would burn inside and ruin the tailcap completely...


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## flashlight nut (Oct 14, 2013)

Sorry to revive an old thread but wanted a conclusive answer. I have multiple 6Ps with high output, aftermarket drop ins. I love the UI on the LX2 and thought the UI would make the 6Ps perfect. Researching led me to this thread so I called Surefire to inquire about purchasing tailcaps from either the Kroma, AZ2 or Vampire. The rep told me that the 2 stage function for these lights are in the head, not the tailcap. This tread states otherwise. Has anything change in the design of these flashlights or is the rep just plain wrong?


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## ElectronGuru (Oct 14, 2013)

Check the product description. Two stage + 'press further' is in the cap:

The Kroma's tactically-correct two-stage pushbutton tailcap switch activates the light: press for momentary-on in your selected color mode, press further and always get the high-output white spot beam; twist to get constant-on low beam in your selected color/IR mode, twist further to select the constant-on high-output white spot beam.


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## Mikeg23 (Oct 14, 2013)

As far as Surefire is concerned it's a combination of the head and tail cap because on thier two stage lights the low mode is regulated. If you put the tail cap on a light that is not designed for it you still get low and high but low is simply running the light out if regulation, which is not as efficient.

At least this is the way I understood it based on what I have read.


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## gsr (Oct 15, 2013)

I picked up a Malkoff M361N LMH for my 6P that is equiped with a Z59 clicky tailcap. This gives me the ability to quickly reach the mode I want with soft presses, then a harder press to click the switch to constant on. In this case, the modes are controlled in the head. This is my solution to the 'how do I get multiple modes with a Malkoff drop in and a clicky tail switch' conundrum.


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## flashlight nut (Oct 15, 2013)

One last question. Are the tailcaps on the Kroma, AZ2 and Vampire the same tailcap? If so, does it have a number designation such as Z## ?


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## sween1911 (Oct 17, 2016)

jellydonut said:


> I stand by my earlier suggestion of trying to track down a Kroma tailcap.



Years and YEARS later, I finally tracked down this post. I have a Malkoff M61N in my 6P and am awaiting a Kroma tailcap I just purchased to duplicate your setup.


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