# MC-E 5A tint comparison. Modded Mag SSC P7 & MC-E beamshots!



## StefanFS (Dec 3, 2008)

About a week and a half ago CPF user eprom asked me if I was interested in doing comparative beamshots with one of his CREE MC-E 5A J-bin emitters. It piqued my interest and eprom sent me a sample. eprom's sales thread for the MC-E 5A. 
 
I used the following flashlight builds:

2D Maglite with 2S2P CREE MC-E 5A, J bin @ 3.4A. OP reflector.
2D Maglite with 2S2P CREE MC-E WC, M bin @ 3.4A. OP reflector.
1D Maglite with SSC P7 DSWOI @ 3.2A. OP reflector.
3D Maglite SSC P7 CSXOI @ 3.2A. OP reflector.
4D Maglite with OSRAM 64440 IRC 50W halogen bulb.
Dereelight DBS V2 CREE R2 WC @ 1.2A. 

Pic of the lights will come tomorrow...

The OSRAM hotwire and the DBS are included to make it an even number and to give a perspective of the amount of light these high power led Maglites produce. The OSRAM hotwire is about ten times more powerful in output compared to the DBS, so it's a low and a high in relation to the MCE-E/SSC P7 Maglites.

The Maglites with SSC P7 & CREE MC-E can be found in these threads:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/212835
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/195358

The J-bin MC-E 5A emitter has 25% less output compared to the M-bin MC-E WC and SSC P7 DSWOI. But it does hold it's ground against the more powerful bins. In my opinion the light from the 5A is pleasant but not necessarily any better for rendering colors, penetrating fog/rain etc. It's more of a preference, if you like a warmer light from your flashlight this emitter is really good, the best warm emitter I have seen. Very much recommended for those who crave warm light.

It's four settings. Intermediate throw at ~100 m, lighting up a meadow, penetrating dense vegetation, lighting up an enclosed space. There are lots of different colours in the settings, so watch the details.
It's also drizzling rain/ice crystals and there's some ice fog. Really bad damp winter weather.



*Setting 1.*

































































*Setting 2.*





















































*Setting 3.*

Just a shot into some dense forest vegetation. ~40 meters to the farthest details in the hotspots.
















































*Setting 4.*



















































--------------------------------------------​ 
Two shots side by side up in the sky to show how the core beams look in rain and fog. Pretty interesting how the beams disperse in the fog.


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## StefanFS (Dec 3, 2008)

Reserved for further info..


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## jirik_cz (Dec 3, 2008)

Great beamshots, thanks!

The 5A Cree tint looks really nice.


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## StefanFS (Dec 3, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> Great beamshots, thanks!
> 
> The 5A Cree tint looks really nice.


 
Yes it does. I'm impressed by it actually. Thanks!


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 3, 2008)

Note to self:

Find MC-E 5A's!


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## bf1 (Dec 3, 2008)

Great shots!
Many thanks!


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## mudman cj (Dec 3, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> Note to self:
> 
> Find MC-E 5A's!



They are available right now in Custom & Mod B/S/T. I have one on order already and it should be here any day now.


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## Morelite (Dec 3, 2008)

Excellent beamshots and a great post. I too really like the looks of those MC-E 5A's :goodjob:


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## Aircraft800 (Dec 3, 2008)

the MC-E 5A seems to be the better of the LED's as far as color retention. It's weird, the Incan seemed to mess up the blue of the doors, but the light has a huge spectrum  I guess it's all preference, the throw didn't seem to suffer like I thought it would.

Great Beamshots!


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## bxstylez (Dec 3, 2008)

niiiiiiiiiiice SHOTS!

.


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## toby_pra (Dec 4, 2008)

Wonderful beamshots...

Many thanks for sharing Stefan!


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## eprom (Dec 4, 2008)

Stefan, you are amazing. Thanks for your effort. If you give permission, I want to use these beamshots for my local store.

Thanks Again, 
EpRoM


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## nanotech17 (Dec 4, 2008)

:wow: what a hard working Stefan :twothumbs
:thanks:a lotzzz


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## Daniel_sk (Dec 4, 2008)

I am amazed by the excellent tint of the MC-5E 5A LED. Great beamshots :thumbsup:. I wish there was a flashlight that I could buy with this emitter without modding. Or a drop-in of some sort...


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## Hallmcc (Dec 4, 2008)

Would you be in a position to post a photo of the A-5 and the R2 aimed at the blue doors at the same time?

It appears that the MC-E A-5 J bin brings out the reds and greens while the other white lights bring out the blue.

I am curious if the combination of the two will blend and deliver a truer night photo or if the R2 will over power and erase the tint inprovement. I am working on a deep sea video light so this happens to fall within my field of interest at the moment.

Thank you in advance!


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## wquiles (Dec 4, 2008)

Stefan - FANTASTIC job on the beamshots - thanks much 

Will


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## geek4christ (Dec 4, 2008)

Very nice, Stefan. Thanks for the comparison shots.


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## StefanFS (Dec 4, 2008)

Daniel_sk said:


> I am amazed by the excellent tint of the MC-5E 5A LED. Great beamshots :thumbsup:. I wish there was a flashlight that I could buy with this emitter without modding. Or a drop-in of some sort...


 
You can do it! Start modding away.



wquiles said:


> Stefan - FANTASTIC job on the beamshots - thanks much
> 
> Will


 They were better than I expected, thanks. Try one in comparison to the cooler bins, you'll be surprised.


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## 2xTrinity (Dec 4, 2008)

Hallmcc said:


> Would you be in a position to post a photo of the A-5 and the R2 aimed at the blue doors at the same time?
> 
> It appears that the MC-E A-5 J bin brings out the reds and greens while the other white lights bring out the blue.
> 
> ...


I've tried this out, and the Neutral + Cool is no better.

I've used every LED from awful WC and cooler bins (>7000k), to 8B extremely warm white bins (eg, <2650k). IMO the 5A is the sweet spot for accurate color rendition from a single emitter in almost all circumstances. 

The only better source I've seen are the High CRI SSCs, at similar color temp. There you get a marginal improvement in CRI, in exchange for half the efficiency. Not worth it IMO.

IMO the next best is the 6C bin, which is slightly warmer at 3700k. All my current MC-Es fall into this range (though I have some 5As on the way), because this was the closest bin to neutral at the time I ordered from cutter. Rendition here is closer to the halogen. 

The ultra warm LEDs are better than I expected -- I'd say CRI is significantly better than warm white CFLs, but I'd only use those if you specifically want warm white. I prefer neutral white color temp (3500-4500k) in general. The reason I bought the warm whites is to make bike lights as the warmer white doesn't irritate the eyes of oncoming drivers as much.


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 4, 2008)

MMMMMMMMmm

Take the reflector out of my LD01, use that room for a heatsink, slap a MC-E on top of it, run it on what cell though?

Short short short runtime! Which is actually good since it can't cook it'self to death in the 4 minutes it is on. :laughing:

I am not really suggesting this BTW.


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## Hallmcc (Dec 4, 2008)

2xTrinity said:


> I've tried this out, and the Neutral + Cool is no better.


 
Thank you!


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## cfromc (Dec 4, 2008)

Thank you for the beam shots. They are very much appreciated!


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## gillestugan (Dec 6, 2008)

Great beamshots. I was looking at the shots, compating tints. When I got to the close-up forest pictures I thought -This looks just like the forests here in Sweden! 
I didn't think of the the typical Swedish red cottage with white corners seen in the first pictures, as I was watching the tints too closely. haha

How do you percieve the relative output of the lights? 
The WC looks much brighter than the 5A, but is it as much brighter to the eye as it is to the camera?


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## StefanFS (Dec 6, 2008)

gillestugan said:


> Great beamshots. I was looking at the shots, compating tints. When I got to the close-up forest pictures I thought -This looks just like the forests here in Sweden!
> I didn't think of the the typical Swedish red cottage with white corners seen in the first pictures, as I was watching the tints too closely. haha
> 
> How do you percieve the relative output of the lights?
> The WC looks much brighter than the 5A, but is it as much brighter to the eye as it is to the camera?


 
Röda stugor med vita knutar finns det gott om här.

The MC-E M-bin WC output ~25% more light the the J-bin 5A. I do notice in use that the M-bin WC and the different SSC P7 D****I are brighter, it's very close to the pics. One of my favourite emitters is the SSC P7 DSWOI, it's the best for my needs and I like how it render colours. It's close to daylight. I have great hopes for MC-E M-bin WG or WH (when I find some). The MC-E 5A is for those who like warmer tints.

Stefan


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## gillestugan (Dec 6, 2008)

WG M-bin is available from led-tech.de My uncle just received two for a bikelight project. Shipping was about one week. 

I'm planning on borrowing one of the emitters and do some testing next week. Mostly to test different reflectors and lenses. Looking one more narrow than the boom (not much chance) and one really wide.

/Anders

(If anyone wonder what was written in swedish, it translates: "there are lots of cottages with white corners here" Most rural buildings in sweden are painted like the cottage in the pictures, so this is no surprice)


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## VidPro (Dec 6, 2008)

if i hold my breath for long enough does it turn blue like that too 

gotta LOVE these pictures, nothing could be more realistic looking , :twothumbsStefanFS

there is no blue food  (george carlin)

it has often seemed to me that as the "lumens per watt" goes up, the singularity of the color goes up too :-(
i would like to see them RETAIN more of the color rendition as they increase the output , as you can observe OUTDOORS, the depth and dimentionality of the forest dissapears when you have no colors, while having OUTPUT is really neeto, when trying to see one thing OVER another out there, haveing everything in blue/gray scale contrast is not as helpfull as it seems to seeing things like wildlife. when your in the woods, you got green stuff and brown stuff, but a BLUE light? hey make sence of that  *color contrast* is VERY usefull in seeing, not just meter numbers.


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## StefanFS (Dec 7, 2008)

VidPro, 
I'm not only looking for max raw output. I also gravitate towards emitters I think most accurately recreate daylight conditions, and right now those tend to be SSC SWO/SVO and CREE WG/WH for me. The CREE MC-E 5A is impressive in what it does, but it has been a trend lately to shift interest to warm emitters and a tradeoff in output. That's not my mug of beer, but I'm sure lots of people love it for what it does.

Stefan


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## Nos (Dec 7, 2008)

cutter sells K-bin 5C MC-E's thats only 60 lumens less than WC M 

btw, would it make sense to order from cutter now? :candle:


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## wquiles (Dec 7, 2008)

StefanFS said:


> VidPro,
> I'm not only looking for max raw output. I also gravitate towards emitters I think most accurately recreate daylight conditions, and right now those tend to be SSC SWO/SVO and CREE WG/WH for me. The CREE MC-E 5A is impressive in what it does, but it has been a trend lately to shift interest to warm emitters and a tradeoff in output. That's not my mug of beer, but I'm sure lots of people love it for what it does.
> 
> Stefan



Stefan,

Looking at the OSRAM incandescent shots above, to me it looks like the only light that truly shows accurate colors at night. The only other shot that comes close to the same color rendition is the MC-E 5A. Do you not consider the incandescent OSRAM light to be the bar for accurate color rendition? Maybe this is very subjective after all 

I already build a light with an SSC SWO tint and it still looks way too typical LED bluish/green, and at night the incandescent from my SF M6 (MN21) was the only one that had true color representation:

Surefire M6, with HDM6 Regulated/Rechargeable LiIon pack, MN21 bulb (approx 600 lumens):







Custom 1xD, MOP reflector, UCL glass, single 18650 LiIon cell (about 2.7-3 amps using 4xAA) D2Flex on MAX:






Custom P7 light on the right, Surefire M6 on the left:






Maybe I am just too far biased into the incandescent camp 

Will


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## StefanFS (Dec 7, 2008)

Will,

I know there's been a debate on CPF for a long time regarding colour rendition, sometimes a heated debate. It's also been somewhat of a trend lately to use warmer emitters.

Light that resemble daylight work best for me , daylight is in the neighborhood of 5000 to 6500 K in differing conditions (where 6500 K would be an overcast day). My eyes are adapted to that type of light through evolution, and for me it simply works best. CREE WG/WH or SSC SWO/SVO are in that neighborhood of ~5500-6000 K. My OSRAM Mag is a toy for me due to it's warm output, some colours seem false, just look at the leaves and other brown hues.

It might not be the optimal CRI figures from a CREE WG/WH or SSC SWO/SVO, but when you consider CCT and colour appearance models the cooler light works better as a visual aid at night. If the lightsource is excessive in either the red or blue it might not matter much if it score hight on the CRI index.

Don't get me wrong here, I hate the blueish shimmer from 8000K emitters or HID up in the same region. It's my preference to use these emitters, but there's also are good reasons for it in my opinion.

Stefan


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## wquiles (Dec 7, 2008)

Gotcha - thanks. Definitely a mater of preference - a very subjective mater indeed 

The good thing is that we have available so many LED's to match our likes and dislikes, and your awesome work with all of these surely helps many to select one over the other. 

Keep up the good work dude, and again, great job with the night beamshots :twothumbs

Will


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## StefanFS (Dec 7, 2008)

It's absolutely a matter of preference. I could present arguments to support either side of this subject. The point is that there are good lines of reasoning available for both camps in this. I do believe that there has been some instances of exaggerating the merits of one type over the other on CPF. Especially the fog/rain/adverse conditions argument for the warmer emitters.


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## StefanFS (Dec 17, 2008)

The phosphor of the warm emitter is more 'yellow-orange' than the MC-E WC to the right.


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## zhouling (Dec 23, 2008)

sure, great shots!! DBS is till strong, I think, more focused


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## Mettee (Dec 23, 2008)

Stephan,

What type of OP reflector do you use? I purchased a FM one figuring it would be great...well it put out half as much light as the stock mag reflector. Do you see the same results with yours? Your shots seem like the light thrown is still very bright, and it goes a good distance.

Drew


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## StefanFS (Dec 23, 2008)

Mettee,
I mainly use the reflectors Kaidomain sell. They are from a leading manufacturer. The last iteration, v. 3.1, throw almost as good as the prevoius version that had a little less structure on the coating. Output is very good, what is lost in throw is made up by much brighter spill. With both versions I get about 20 000 lux in throw as opposed to the stock smooth that throws around 26-28 000 lux. But spill light is ~30% brighter.
The newest (3.1) from Kai has a slightly bigger hotspot and a smoother beam with both SSC P7 and Cree MC-E.

/Stefan


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## mcmc (Dec 23, 2008)

wquiles said:


> Stefan,
> 
> Looking at the OSRAM incandescent shots above, to me it looks like the only light that truly shows accurate colors at night. The only other shot that comes close to the same color rendition is the MC-E 5A. Do you not consider the incandescent OSRAM light to be the bar for accurate color rendition? Maybe this is very subjective after all
> 
> ...




Hey Wquiles - nice shots! (and nice house!)
The M6 with rechargeables looks pretty nice. I guess stock SF Incans still have something to give the latest and greatest single LEDS a run for their money with =)

I noticed that the white balance changed from shot to shot. I am very interested in trying out an SW0 tinted SSC P7, but with the cost of these multi-die emitters being in the range of $25-$30, to be able to get a good idea of the tint beforehand would be awesome.

Would you possibly be able to take beamshots with the white balance locked in? Daylight would probably be best. Also, if you could possibly take them with the exposure compensation lowered a notch, perhaps 2/3 of a stop (2 ticks). That way we could see more of the beam and its tint, rather than the blown hotspot.

Of course only if you have time, that is =) That would be awesome though. :twothumbs


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## wquiles (Dec 23, 2008)

mcmc said:


> Hey Wquiles - nice shots! (and nice house!)
> The M6 with rechargeables looks pretty nice. I guess stock SF Incans still have something to give the latest and greatest single LEDS a run for their money with =)
> 
> I noticed that the white balance changed from shot to shot. I am very interested in trying out an SW0 tinted SSC P7, but with the cost of these multi-die emitters being in the range of $25-$30, to be able to get a good idea of the tint beforehand would be awesome.
> ...



Thank you. That is my next door neighbor's house - he is also a flashaholic, so he does not mind me using his house for "target" practice!

I would really love to take those pics again, but that P7 was a customer's custom project and I no longer have it. When I do the next set of pictures, I will sure lock down the white balance in between pictures  

Will


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## Kestrel (Jul 2, 2010)

OK, bumping this thread for a question.

I'm trying to choose an MC-E for my SF L2 mod, but this other thread confused me even more. I imagine that there are new MC-E bins available since either of these threads were active (end of 2008), so any assistance would be *greatly appreciated*.

My goal is either something on the warmish side of neutral, or towards the neutral side of warm - the really warm tints that I've seen elsewhere look too yellow for my tastes, and even the well-driven incans are too warm for me. (Also, I don't want to loose more lumens than I have to.) The *5A* beamshots on page one look very nice and I am leaning in that direction:






Can you folks recommend an up-to-date *neutral-to-warm* MC-E bin & tint for my modest project?

Thank you,
K


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## Kestrel (Jul 7, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> OK, bumping this thread for a question.
> 
> I'm trying to choose an MC-E for my SF L2 mod, but this other thread confused me even more. I imagine that there are new MC-E bins available since either of these threads were active (end of 2008), so any assistance would be *greatly appreciated*.
> 
> ...


Nobody has an opinion on MC-E's these days? :candle:


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## ti-force (Jul 8, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> Nobody has an opinion on MC-E's these days? :candle:



Newark has some K-bin 4500k emitters, but I don't think they specify the actual tint bin.

http://www.newark.com/jsp/search/br...tions=false&ref=globalsearch&_requestid=46474



Cutter has some 5A and 5C tint K-bin emitters.

http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=Cree+MCE+Multichip

I can't think of anywhere else to look.


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## StefanFS (Jul 9, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> Nobody has an opinion on MC-E's these days? :candle:



The MC E package is still very useful. Many vendors are offering different tints.

I'm still using my MC E lights with different tints. It's a versatile and abuse-friendly package. A favourite along with the SSC P7.


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## Mettee (Jul 9, 2010)

Stefans back!


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## wquiles (Jul 9, 2010)

StefanFS said:


> The MC E package is still very useful. Many vendors are offering different tints.
> 
> I'm still using my MC E lights with different tints. It's a versatile and abuse-friendly package. A favourite along with the SSC P7.



+1

I know the tendency seems to always have the newest/brightest LED on the planet (and nothing wrong with that!), but the truth is that those "old" P7 and MC-E are awesome, and give a great amount of lumens for most applications, and in fact still being too bright for many more!

In fact, to this day, my favorite non-flashaholic mod to make is a 1xD host, using Eric's (mdocod) 3xAA battery carrier, doing DD (Direct Drive) of a P7. It is simple, fast/easy to build, reliable, and plainly just works 

Will


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## ti-force (Aug 13, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> OK, bumping this thread for a question.
> 
> I'm trying to choose an MC-E for my SF L2 mod, but this other thread confused me even more. I imagine that there are new MC-E bins available since either of these threads were active (end of 2008), so any assistance would be *greatly appreciated*.
> 
> ...



Did you find a vendor that's offering these emitters in the tint bin you're after, as well as the latest, greatest flux bin ? If so, what vendor?


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## Kestrel (Aug 13, 2010)

ti-force said:


> Did you find a vendor that's offering these emitters in the tint bin you're after, as well as the latest, greatest flux bin ? If so, what vendor?


Hi, thanks for the check-up, :wave:

Not yet, I've been busy on a few other things and this upgrade has been sitting in a drawer for the last month or so. I do need to get back to this - I haven't yet sourced the MC-E that I need for this light.


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## Justin Case (Aug 13, 2010)

Check with nailbender. IIRC, he has some 5A MC-Es.


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