# ZebraLight SC51c High CRI Release



## Lance Carbuncle (Apr 19, 2011)

I just browsed the Zebralight website and saw that they have a pre-order page up for a High CRI light. I was hoping it would be using a Nichia 119, but any High CRI light I can get my hands on is ok with me. 

The emitter is a luxeon rebel 85 CRI 4000k. Anyone know much about this emitter? I haven't heard much about luxeon's lately.

I searched and didn't see anyone mention this, so hopefully this isn't a duplicate post. 

Lance


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## Brasso (Apr 19, 2011)

85 CRI isn't exactly High in my opinion. Still, if they don't jack up the price, it will be a nice tint.


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## pjandyho (Apr 19, 2011)

I think 85 CRI is not enough to entice me over the massive drop in lumen. I am quite used to 93 from my HDS clicky. Either they give me higher CRI or higher output over CRI. I have so far been happy with the neutral white offerings from ZL and would most likely order neutral white over the high CRI if I needed another.


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## Lance Carbuncle (Apr 19, 2011)

The 85 CRI rating could be misleading. The Nichia 119 H1 is the highest rated CRI emitter they make and it is also listed at 85 CRI. This is a guaranteed minimum, and typical performance is 92-93 CRI.


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## JA(me)S (Apr 19, 2011)

Relevant SC51c Specs:


 LED: Philips LUXEON Rebel (*Typical CRI 85*, color temperature 4000K)
Light Output
High: H1 *130* Lm (0.9 hrs) or H2 *63* Lm (2.4 hrs) / *80* Lm (1.7 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe
Medium: M1 *29* Lm (9 hrs) or M2 *14*Lm (24 hrs)
Low: L1 *2.8 *Lm (3 days) or L2 *0.3* Lm (16 days)
 Light output are out the front (OTF) values. Runtime tests are done using Sanyo 2000mAh Eneloop AA batteries.
 130, 80, 29, 14 and 2.8 Lumen output levels are current regulated. 63 and 0.3 Lumen output levels are PWM generated.
 
Beam Type
80° spill beam spread
11° (3.8 feet at 20 feet) hot spot
 

Note: the SC51w is at 172 Lm on H1 with a 4200k XP-G *Typical CRI 75*.:shrug:

- Jas.


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## pjandyho (Apr 19, 2011)

Lance Carbuncle said:


> The 85 CRI rating could be misleading. The Nichia 119 H1 is the highest rated CRI emitter they make and it is also listed at 85 CRI. This is a guaranteed minimum, and typical performance is 92-93 CRI.


Thanks for clearing that up. I wasn't aware of it honestly.


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## GeoBruin (Apr 19, 2011)

Perhaps I'm missing something, but wont the rebel throw a little better than the XPG assuming the same reflector is used? The perceived drop in brightness may not be that bad if it throws a little better.


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## B0wz3r (Apr 19, 2011)

That sounds pretty fantastic... I might just be willing to give up my SC50w+ in favor of one of these, which would actually be brighter when I'm not running a 14500. While it's nice to have the extra output the li-ion offers, the short run-time can be a drag sometimes.


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## RobME (Apr 19, 2011)

Bodes well for things to come. Production commences late June 2011, AA only (so far). Hi CRI at their prices? Seems like a winner, but I'll wait for the CR123 version.


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## hazna (Apr 19, 2011)

Thats a big drop to the lumens with the high CRI. It's good to see that the colour temperature isn't too warm.


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## Brasso (Apr 19, 2011)

The drop really isn't that much. It will be barely noticeable. But if it actually has a 90+ CRI at that temp it will be fantastic.


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## Rod911 (Apr 19, 2011)

I cannot confess to knowing the technical details fully, but from reading the datasheet (I think this is the right one), makes it an interesting choice of LED. Also, I do prefer the 4000k CCT. The beamshots of the high CRI 3000k lights are too warm for my liking.

I thought I read a post here some where saying that a 4*AA light is in the works from ZL. If they use this LED in that light, there's a pretty good chance I'll buy it. I can't convince myself to purchase the AA model considering I have the SC51w already.


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## damn_hammer (Apr 19, 2011)

fyi regarding pre-ordering with zebralight. i pre-ordered the h51w directly from zl, and folks in the u.s. were getting there's from u.s. dealers well before mine arrived from china. not sure if this is always the case with pre-order or not. i'm really interested in this high cri light, but will likely wait until it shows up at a dealer.


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## B0wz3r (Apr 19, 2011)

RobME said:


> Bodes well for things to come. Production commences late June 2011, AA only (so far). Hi CRI at their prices? Seems like a winner, but I'll wait for the CR123 version.



I guess you already have an investment in 123 based lights? Now days, with the newest light technologies and battery chemistries, 123's no longer have any advantage over AA's.



Brasso said:


> The drop really isn't that much. It will be barely noticeable. But if it actually has a 90+ CRI at that temp it will be fantastic.


 
+1 I like the idea of the 4K color temp, 3K is too warm in my opinion.


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## calipsoii (Apr 19, 2011)

First, hats off to Zebralight for investigating emitters with a higher CRI. As someone who basically doesn't buy cool white lights anymore, I'm always happy to see more warm offerings. :thumbsup:

That said, I don't think they should call this a "High CRI" light. 85CRI is not high. It's slightly better than average, but not to the point where you're going to take one look and say "Oh wow, it's just like an incandescent!". If anything, the 4000k color temperature will leave more of an impression than the CRI rating.

Eagerly awaiting some beamshots. Neutral Rebel emitters have such a nice creaminess to them.


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## Harry999 (Apr 19, 2011)

Very interesting! I may well be ordering a new ZL light soon.

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## srfreddy (Apr 19, 2011)

Based on what people have said, 85 vs 90 CRI is unnoticable, and within boundaries of normal differences in LEDs. I must say though, that 130 Lm. is lower than I thought...


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## candlelight001 (Apr 20, 2011)

What's the practical, on the ground difference between the High CRI and their current "w" series neutral lights? I've got an H51w and an H30w, both seem pretty great for outdoor color rendition.


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## Lance Carbuncle (Apr 20, 2011)

damn_hammer said:


> fyi regarding pre-ordering with zebralight. i pre-ordered the h51w directly from zl, and folks in the u.s. were getting there's from u.s. dealers well before mine arrived from china. not sure if this is always the case with pre-order or not. i'm really interested in this high cri light, but will likely wait until it shows up at a dealer.



Well, before I started this thread, I decided to preorder it, hoping it would show up before June.... I got a ship notice YESTERDAY  .


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## damn_hammer (Apr 20, 2011)

nice. it still might be june before you get it though.  seriously though, please share you impressions when it arrives. thanks. if you have a sc51w, or h51w as a comparison would be ideal.


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## chenko (Apr 20, 2011)

Wow, this sounds cool... or warm actually...!! But now I can't decide between SC51w and SC51c. And no, I'm not buying both.


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## Paul_in_Maryland (Apr 20, 2011)

My family's three Fenix TK20 lights (now discontinued) have the highest CRI (to my eyes) of any LED I've seen. Can anyone tell me what the TK20's CRI was? I know that the emitter was an XR-E, and the stated color temperature was, I think, 4200K.


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## Sparky's Magic (Apr 20, 2011)

I'm still infatuated with my recently acquired SC60W; another SC60,(C). 1x18650 will be fantastic. The SC60W. really is a beautiful 'light that looks, feels & behaves like a custom light at about 1/3 the cost of a reasonable custom.

What will be interesting for me, and I guess be another chapter in my learning curve, is how well the two SC60s compare (?). I make the 60W. very close to 4,000K.; in fact, the beam laid up alongside Malkoff's M31W. has to my eye the exact same tint. How much difference will a boost in color rendering make in the real world? All, of course, depending on Lillian Z/L and whether the SC60 gets the nod for high CRI: Personally I couldn't think of a better host, with its' longer runtime (18650) & larger reflector for perhaps 160L. ...I've got my hand up, Lillian.:twothumbs


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## JA(me)S (Apr 20, 2011)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Can anyone tell me what the TK20's CRI was? I know that the emitter was an XR-E, and the stated color temperature was, I think, 4200K.



From Cree's XR-E datasheet: "Typical CRI for Cool White & Neutral White (3,700 K – 10,000 K CCT) is 75."

Hope that helps.

-Jas.


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## calipsoii (Apr 20, 2011)

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> My family's three Fenix TK20 lights (now discontinued) have the highest CRI (to my eyes) of any LED I've seen. Can anyone tell me what the TK20's CRI was? I know that the emitter was an XR-E, and the stated color temperature was, I think, 4200K.


 
Favorite emitter of all time.


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## davidt1 (Apr 20, 2011)

chenko said:


> Wow, this sounds cool... or warm actually...!! But now I can't decide between SC51w and SC51c. And no, I'm not buying both.



SC51c puts you in a rare and special club of high CRI owners. There could be other improvements as well, such as a stiffer switch button that does not turn on by accident easily.


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## damn_hammer (Apr 20, 2011)

davidt1 said:


> SC51c puts you in a rare and special club of high CRI owners. There could be other improvements as well, such as a stiffer switch button that does not turn on by accident easily.


 
davidt1- is the stiffer switch button based in fact, or pure speculation on your part?


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## davidt1 (Apr 20, 2011)

damn_hammer said:


> davidt1- is the stiffer switch button based in fact, or pure speculation on your part?



Speculation.


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## Starchaser (Apr 20, 2011)

damn_hammer said:


> davidt1- is the stiffer switch button based in fact, or pure speculation on your part?





davidt1 said:


> Speculation.



Hopefully that speculation, or other fix will become a reality, then I'll buy one too.


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## B0wz3r (Apr 20, 2011)

I've had very little problem with 'hot-pocket's from my SC50w+, but then again, I really only wear cargo/tactical shorts and pants. I never wear tight fitting jeans or slacks.

I'm very excited by this light; I will be ordering one as soon as I can afford it. I'm not at all concerned by the lower lumen specs... it will be brighter than my SC50w+ which is my primary EDC, and I find I rarely need more light than it can put out for my typical EDC tasks.


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## pjandyho (Apr 20, 2011)

davidt1 said:


> SC51c puts you in a rare and special club of high CRI owners. There could be other improvements as well, such as a stiffer switch button that does not turn on by accident easily.


 


davidt1 said:


> Speculation.


 
Considering that Zebralight uses a set of press hold and click, double click commands to operate the UI, it would not seem to serve the purpose well by building a stiffer button. The only way to go about the accidental switch activation is to recess the switch slightly deeper, and if met with built limitations would then be to raise the wall around the switch.


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## Lance Carbuncle (Apr 20, 2011)

Really? How hard is it to take a quarter turn out of the cap and lock out the switch before you put it in your pocket..... a couple times and it becomes second nature.


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## Starchaser (Apr 20, 2011)

Lance Carbuncle said:


> Really? How hard is it to take a quarter turn out of the cap and lock out the switch before you put it in your pocket..... a couple times and it becomes second nature.



Hard enough that I don't want to have to take extra steps when I want light, and again when I want to turn my light off, and put it away. Apparently many others feel the same way. It has nothing to do with second nature, or muscle memory. 

If I was going to throw it in a bag or something I probably wouldn't mind the extra steps to insure against accidental activation, but I don't want to have to deal with that when it comes to my EDC.

I will say that I have been EDC'ing an H51w, for a while now clipped to my front pocket, and have had no accidental activations. This is because of the different location of the switch than the SC51w, and because it is recessed a little deeper all the way around.

YMMV


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## pjandyho (Apr 20, 2011)

Lance Carbuncle said:


> Really? How hard is it to take a quarter turn out of the cap and lock out the switch before you put it in your pocket..... a couple times and it becomes second nature.


 
It's not a matter of hard. It's a matter of being unwieldy. If I need light urgently I don't see why I need to remember to tighten the tailcap. Also, I don't see why I must be forced to live with a poor design.


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## pjandyho (Apr 20, 2011)

Starchaser said:


> This is because of the different location of the switch than the SC51w, and because it is recessed a little deeper all the way around.


 
Was there a repositioning of the switch? I would be interested to know. I may consider buying one if the switch was recessed further.


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## RonReagan (Apr 21, 2011)

I think he was talking about the headlamp version and how the switch is at the top which makes it harder to activate accidentally. I haven't heard anything about switches yet, but can't wait for reviews on this. Been wanting to take the dive into CRI for awhile.


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## Starchaser (Apr 21, 2011)

pjandyho said:


> Was there a repositioning of the switch? I would be interested to know. I may consider buying one if the switch was recessed further.



No... I was referring to the switch on the H51w being located on the end of the light making it less likely to accidentally activate vs. the SC51w having the switch on the side making it easier to accidentally activate the light.


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## pjandyho (Apr 21, 2011)

Starchaser said:


> No... I was referring to the switch on the H51w being located on the end of the light making it less likely to accidentally activate vs. the SC51w having the switch on the side making it easier to accidentally activate the light.


 
I see. I have the H51Fw and H501w. Love them both. There are times I left it in my pocket or bag without locking out the tailcap but it did not get switched on. Don't have such luck with the SC50w+. I sold it off after about a week of ownership.


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## B0wz3r (Apr 21, 2011)

pjandyho said:


> It's not a matter of hard. It's a matter of being unwieldy. If I need light urgently I don't see why I need to remember to tighten the tailcap. Also, I don't see why I must be forced to live with a poor design.


 
I'd hardly call it a poor design. The problem really seems to be how much other stuff is in the same pocket, and how close-fitting are the pants the pocket is in. I've been EDC'ing my SC50w+ as my primary light for close to 8 mos. now, and have only two, maybe three times, where it's activated in my pocket. I've even had my H51w activated inside the small organizer pocket inside the side cargo pocket on a pair of my tactical pants, when there's been other things in the main compartment of the pocket, so it's not the design of either that is or is not flawed, rather than the method of carry that works more or less well with either model of light.


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## pjandyho (Apr 21, 2011)

B0wz3r said:


> I'd hardly call it a poor design. The problem really seems to be how much other stuff is in the same pocket, and how close-fitting are the pants the pocket is in. I've been EDC'ing my SC50w+ as my primary light for close to 8 mos. now, and have only two, maybe three times, where it's activated in my pocket. I've even had my H51w activated inside the small organizer pocket inside the side cargo pocket on a pair of my tactical pants, when there's been other things in the main compartment of the pocket, so it's not the design of either that is or is not flawed, rather than the method of carry that works more or less well with either model of light.


 
There is nothing in my pocket. What I did was clip the SC50w+ on the rear pocket of my tactical pants or jeans, and since the switch is facing my butt the light got switched on sometimes when I sit down. I then switch it over to the front pocket made for pistol magazine thinking it will rectify the problem. No luck also. What's more embarrassing was when I was talking and bragging to my local Surefire dealer about how good Zebralights are when he pointed to my pocket telling me that my Zebralight was on. Within that night of talking to him that SC50w+ activated twice in my pocket. That's embarrassing.


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## JA(me)S (Apr 21, 2011)

pjandyho said:


> What's more embarrassing was when I was talking and bragging to my local Surefire dealer about how good Zebralights are when he pointed to my pocket telling me that my Zebralight was on.


Kinda gives new meaning to the old phrase: "What's that in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?":naughty:

-Jas.


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## pjandyho (Apr 21, 2011)

JA(me)S said:


> Kinda gives new meaning to the old phrase: "What's that in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?":naughty:
> 
> -Jas.


 
LOL! Kind of.


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## Potato42 (Apr 21, 2011)

I have shied away from more zebralights because of the far-too-easy-to-press switch issue. I love my ZL headlamps, but it's a pain to remember to loosen/tighten the tailcap every time. I live with it because I like the rest of the light and because I don't EDC my headlight currently. It's in my bag anyway so after getting it out yet another step to tighten it isn't as irritating. What really bugs me is when I don't remember, or if I stuff it in my pocket right after using it, then the light most certainly comes on at some point. Another issue is if I let someone borrow it. It becomes yet another thing to get them up to speed on, and the light goes from being a useful tool to a battery burning liability in their mind. I like stuff that just works. I wont buy one of their standard torches for EDC until I stop hearing complaints about how easy the switch is. Right now the Klarus lights are looking like a good alternative, they just need better tints.

I am excited to see that a major manufacturer is stepping up to high CRI lights though. I hope they sell well if for no other reason than to keep the high CRI trend coming!


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## B0wz3r (Apr 21, 2011)

Not sure what to tell you guys, but 'hot-pockets' with my Zebralights has been a very, very, rare occurrence for me.


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## Brasso (Apr 21, 2011)

I just received a notice that my SC51c has shipped. Perhaps they had some pre-order inventory on hand.


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## pjandyho (Apr 22, 2011)

Brasso said:


> I just received a notice that my SC51c has shipped. Perhaps they had some pre-order inventory on hand.


 
Thought they say it's in June? Nah... You're just getting a repackaged SC51w.


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## Brasso (Apr 22, 2011)

Don't tell me that. Now I'm going to have a complex with whatever light they send me.


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## pjandyho (Apr 22, 2011)

Brasso said:


> Don't tell me that. Now I'm going to have a complex with whatever light they send me.


 
I was just pulling your legs. If I have to fathom a guess, I would say they are just merely updating the shipping status to 'Shipped' but the light may not ship immediately. Most likely it would be shipping direct from China which might take a couple of weeks to a month or more depending on airport customs over there. My H51Fw took a total of 5 1/2 weeks to reach me from China counting from the date it was shipped.


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## JohnF (Apr 22, 2011)

Yep, I ordered one last week, just got the 'shipped' notice, and it did ship from China. I'll not be holding my breath. My guess would be 2-3 weeks, but maybe longer.

----edit---
Forgot to ask, this says 14500 'not supported'. Can I assume that means not supported as in 'POOF', or not supported as in 'use at your own risk'?

John F


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## Gregozedobe (Apr 23, 2011)

JohnF said:


> Forgot to ask, this says 14500 'not supported'. Can I assume that means not supported as in 'POOF', or not supported as in 'use at your own risk'?


 
Given that the significantly lower llumens of the SC51c is almost certainly because the special high CRI LED can only cope with a limited amount of current (as well as lower efficiency) I suggest that it might be a bad idea to run it on a 14500 if it is brighter (and if it isn't brighter, why bother with the higher voltage but lower capacity battery ?).


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## JohnF (Apr 23, 2011)

Gregozedobe said:


> Given that the significantly lower llumens of the SC51c is almost certainly because the special high CRI LED can only cope with a limited amount of current (as well as lower efficiency) I suggest that it might be a bad idea to run it on a 14500 if it is brighter (and if it isn't brighter, why bother with the higher voltage but lower capacity battery ?).



All of the SC51's are 'not supported' for 14500, not just the high CRI version. Must be using a different driver in the whole line.

John F


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## JohnF (Apr 23, 2011)

Unintentional double post.


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## sale (Apr 24, 2011)

I'm going to place a preorder, but I know nothing about "high" CRI-LEDs, so this may sound odd.. 

Zebralight is going to use Philips LUXEON Rebel LED. Is it reasonable for this price category or is there some better choices, but for some reason ZL won't use them?


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## Brasso (Apr 24, 2011)

That led is the only current option in that temperature range.


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## Lance Carbuncle (May 1, 2011)

I got a notice on Saturday that I have a package from Zebralight waiting for me at the post office


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## B0wz3r (May 1, 2011)

Those of you who are getting one right away, let us know what you think of it and how it compares to any other ZL's you may have.


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## JA(me)S (May 1, 2011)

^^ Yeah, what he said! Ooh, and get your cameras out too - we are craving beam shots with nicely colored objects in 'em!


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## dealgrabber2002 (May 1, 2011)

I really want to know how SC51c compares to SC51w. I am very fond of neutral and find warm really red/orange to me. I wonder how's the color rendering between the SC51c and SC51w.


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## StandardBattery (May 1, 2011)

This is pretty exciting, these were not supposed to ship so early. I wonder why they decided to put it in a flashlight first?


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## Chongker (May 2, 2011)

Ohh great, this pushed me over the edge, 'ordered' one. Hopefully it does turn out to be the high CRI light and not a mistakenly sent neutral/warm SC51w

Can't wait! =D


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## flatline (May 2, 2011)

dealgrabber2002 said:


> I really want to know how SC51c compares to SC51w. I am very fond of neutral and find warm really red/orange to me. I wonder how's the color rendering between the SC51c and SC51w.



I would suspect that the SC51 is their best selling platform and that is why they chose it for their first high CRI offering.

Just a guess.

--flatline


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## Harry999 (May 2, 2011)

So are the High CRI SC51s actually in production and shipping? The Zebralight website still details a late June production commencement date? This is the only thing stopping me ordering. I don't like to pay for preorders when there are things I need to buy immediately...


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## Lance Carbuncle (May 2, 2011)

I picked up the light today from the post office. Need to wait to dark to play around, but I am afraid I have never taken beamshot pics. First impressions is that the color is extremely close to the SC51w (side by side) it is just a little on the yellow side compared to the SC51w, very similar though. Not knowing the real differences in the emitter size and spread, I can say that the high CRI light is definitely more spotty than the SC51w. at ten feet, the hotspot is about a third smaller (just my rough guess) but actually appears to my eyes to be as bright, or maybe a little brighter. So I guess less lumens OTF, but a little more focused. 

I have switched back and forth looking at stuff in the house, but don't see much of a color difference when looking at objects. I will have a look outside when it gets dark and see what differences I can see when looking around in the garden.


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## StandardBattery (May 2, 2011)

Too bad... that's a disappointing report. Sounds to me like they need a different LED. Maybe inside you lack the proper shades to be impressed, we're all waiting with bated breath for the outdoor report.


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## JohnF (May 2, 2011)

Well, my SC51C arrived today as well. I bought the original CR123A ZebraLight headlamp right after it was released, and that is my only Zebra. Lately I've gotten a few high CRI lights - a P60 drop in from nailbender, the Linger (2xXPG using the 90 CRI min.) and an SST-50 D36 drop in from nailbender that is rated at 85 CRI but is probably much higher.

Both of those are 3000k color temp, so very much warmer than the high CRI Rebel in this Zebra, which looks like a neutral emitter, rated at 4000k.

I very much like this light so far (it'll be going with me for my nightly walk tonight.) I still have to learn the sub-level programming. In the next day or two I'll take some beam shots concentrating on color rendition vs. my other high CRI lights.

I think this Rebel is going to be VERY popular - I've got a 3AAA with a neutral Rebel LED, non-high CRI, and there seems to be virtually no efficiency loss with the high CRI that is so common with other high CRI emitters. So far, in a dark closet, this thing is fantastic. The beam characteristics are similar to a regular Rebel - very smooth transition from hot to spill, whereas the XPG's have a much more defined hot spot. The beam is very much to my liking. 

If the colors pop as I think they will, this light will be a must-have for neutral tint / high CRI lovers. More later...

John F
LV, NV


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## flatline (May 2, 2011)

A good way to compare your high CRI against a regular neutral is to go shine your lights on a book shelf. The different colored spines should show the obvious difference in CRI.

--flatline


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## StandardBattery (May 3, 2011)

Thanks JohnF, now you've added the suspense. I've already ordered mine so I'll be able to see for myself in a few days. It could be ZebraLight is on a real role with SC60w, SC51c. and the SC600 on the way. I'm really liking their stripes.


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## the.Mtn.Man (May 3, 2011)

Lance Carbuncle said:


> I have switched back and forth looking at stuff in the house, but don't see much of a color difference when looking at objects.


In my experience, the difference in color rendering between a high CRI and low CRI emitter should be immediately obvious. Perhaps 85 isn't quite high enough to be "high CRI".


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## Chongker (May 3, 2011)

I've received a notice from ZL that my SC51c has shipped, now only to wait and see for myself. Hope it doesn't take too long to get over here, and that customs don't decide to be a pain


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## flatline (May 3, 2011)

the.Mtn.Man said:


> In my experience, the difference in color rendering between a high CRI and low CRI emitter should be immediately obvious. Perhaps 85 isn't quite high enough to be "high CRI".


 
This was my experience also when comparing my high CRI HDS to my 5A and 5C tinted lights. There was no question in my mind which light had better color.

Even if 85 isn't "high CRI" (which I don't believe it is...I consider 90+ to be high CRI), it's still an improvement over the mid-70ish CRI that more typical emitters have.

--flatline


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## Lance Carbuncle (May 3, 2011)

I took a walk in the garden last night with my warm and high CRI Zebras. It is hard for me to describe the difference, but I really do like the new light. I don't see a lot of difference with green and red's, but there is some. The earth tones such as leafs and soil, definitely pop better. You can see the subtle shade differences with the high CRI, where under the warm, it all looks the same color. This is my first high CRI light, so I don't have any other comparison. The beam its self is really nice. the spot isn't as big, but is does have a more gradual spread. I didn't notice any significant overall brightness in the garden between the two (both on fresh eneloops) Bottom line is I do like the new light and would rather walk outside with it than the SC51w. If there was a huge price difference, I might think differently, but since they are priced the same, I don't see any reason to pick the w over the c light.
I am a newbie with lights and don't feel I have enough experience to really compare lights beyond my first impressions. Heck, I could be color blind for all I know  Hopefully others with more respected opinions will chime in. 

Lance
'


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## dealgrabber2002 (May 4, 2011)

Lance Carbuncle said:


> First impressions is that the color is extremely close to the SC51w (side by side) it is just a little on the yellow side compared to the SC51w, very similar though.



If they are extremely close, I rather go with the SC51w because it has better output.


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## fnj (May 4, 2011)

JohnF said:


> All of the SC51's are 'not supported' for 14500, not just the high CRI version. Must be using a different driver in the whole line.
> John F



In another place, ZebraLight says that 14500s won't make SC51's go poof. Removal of 14500 support appears to be more a matter of policy. There are issues of certain 14500s not fitting properly.


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## hazna (May 4, 2011)

Lance Carbuncle said:


> I took a walk in the garden last night with my warm and high CRI Zebras. It is hard for me to describe the difference, but I really do like the new light. I don't see a lot of difference with green and red's, but there is some. The earth tones such as leafs and soil, definitely pop better. You can see the subtle shade differences with the high CRI, where under the warm, it all looks the same color. This is my first high CRI light, so I don't have any other comparison. The beam its self is really nice. the spot isn't as big, but is does have a more gradual spread. I didn't notice any significant overall brightness in the garden between the two (both on fresh eneloops) Bottom line is I do like the new light and would rather walk outside with it than the SC51w. If there was a huge price difference, I might think differently, but since they are priced the same, I don't see any reason to pick the w over the c light.
> I am a newbie with lights and don't feel I have enough experience to really compare lights beyond my first impressions. Heck, I could be color blind for all I know  Hopefully others with more respected opinions will chime in.



I'm no expert on CRI, but I feel warm/neutral tints bring out greens and browns on foliage better. However their colour rendition of other colours (such as blues) are no so good. Maybe you should compare your sc51w and sc51c with some other colours?


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## Brasso (May 4, 2011)

I don't think it's a matter of them not rendering blue as well, it's just that cool led's tend to over exagerate blues. However, at a 4000k teimp, it's probably rendering it accurately, if not somewhat towards favoring blue.


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## srfreddy (May 4, 2011)

From what I've seen, High CRI's are superior to normal neutrals in their brown rendering.


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## B0wz3r (May 4, 2011)

Brasso said:


> I don't think it's a matter of them not rendering blue as well, it's just that cool led's tend to over exagerate blues. However, at a 4000k teimp, it's probably rendering it accurately, if not somewhat towards favoring blue.


 
Yep, this is exactly right... the reason we see a given color as what it is, is because that is the wavelength of light that it reflects, everything else is absorbed by the material. Since cool tints are bluish, they tend to make blue things look brighter.

The same is true for brownish colors; brown is a combination of red and green and neutral tint lights tend to put out more wavelengths in those ranges, so those colors look better as a result.

The perfect high CRI light would produce a beam that puts out an equal amount of light in all wavelengths to most accurately represent the color properties of whatever it shines on. Unfortunately, LED's (and even incans) just don't work that way... Sunlight is really the only thing that does.


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## JohnF (May 4, 2011)

I've temporarily given up trying to show CRI differences between emitters photographically. The closest I got to being able to show it was by shooting a color chart used for my noise reduction program, Noise Ninja. But, the light output has to be equal for the emitters you are trying to guage, and the white balance setting becomes problematic.

So, it comes down to my eyes. In a dark closet, try picking out a dark navy blue from black. Pretty much impossible with a cool white emitter. Possible with a warm or neutral emitter with enough light output. Very easy with a 'high CRI emitter.' Browns show very differently as well - the rocks in my yard show noticeable differences between lights. 

I'd be a little careful about trusting the CRI ratings for various emitters. The SST-50 3k color, 85 CRI still, to my eye, is at least as good if not better than the 90-rated XPG's as far as color rendition.

I like the Rebel used in the SC51c (4k temp, 85 CRI) a LOT. Colors pop, but whites are much more white than my 3k high CRI emitters. 

John F


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## JA(me)S (May 4, 2011)

JohnF said:


> So, it comes down to my eyes. In a dark closet, try picking out a dark navy blue from black.


I just had vision, as my high CRI appreciation matures and I begin to understand the subtleties and nuances of the various emitters, of my beautiful bride of 18 years finally losing patience in my hobby and yelling (right after the hushed silence of nightfall) just loud enough for all of our neighbors to hear:

"James! - It's time you come out of the closet!!"


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## Brasso (May 4, 2011)

That's too funny. My wife just gives me funny looks anymore.


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## JohnF (May 4, 2011)

JA(me)S said:


> I just had vision, as my high CRI appreciation matures and I begin to understand the subtleties and nuances of the various emitters, of my beautiful bride of 18 years finally losing patience in my hobby and yelling (right after the hushed silence of nightfall) just loud enough for all of our neighbors to hear:
> 
> "James! - It's time you come out of the closet!!"


 
Wife & I just had our 18th, and she did flush me out of the closet last night. That is really funny...


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## JA(me)S (May 4, 2011)

JohnF said:


> Wife & I just had our 18th, and she did flush me out of the closet last night. That is really funny...



Congratulations! 18 years is quite an accomplishment these days!

Ok, back on topic... Do you have an SC51w, and if so, would you agree with Lance's assessment on brightness?



Lance Carbuncle said:


> I didn't notice any significant overall brightness in the garden between the two (both on fresh eneloops)



- Jas.


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## OfficerSheepDog (May 4, 2011)

No matter how bad you think your pictures are please post, I would love to see them.


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## B0wz3r (May 5, 2011)

Oh man... I have GOT to get me one of these lights... I can't afford a Ra right now, as much as I'd love to have one (and the new high CRI models STILL haven't made an appearance) so I have to find some way to beg or borrow enough scratch to get me one of these...

Anyone want to buy a well used and well cared for SC50w+ with only one tiny little ding on it, and a small scratch on the steel of the bezel, to help me towards this goal? 

John, thanks for letting us know how your new light looks to you... I really don't think I'd like one of the warm high CRI lights, but the color temp on this one looks just about perfect. Thanks for sharing.


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## Harry999 (May 5, 2011)

Thank you to those of you who have been kind enough to post their comments on the new SC51c here.

I have just placed my order.

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## calipsoii (May 5, 2011)

Ugh, getting so tempted to order one of these for 3 reasons:

1) I love the rebel beam pattern, it's smooth and creamy
2) 4000k is a good color temp
3) None of you guys have posted beamshots yet!! :hairpull:

Let's see if my willpower survives the day...


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## flatline (May 5, 2011)

calipsoii said:


> 1) I love the rebel beam pattern, it's smooth and creamy



I've been noticing that that all my non-cree lights have nicer beams than my cree lights. Anyone know why this is?

--flatline


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## the.Mtn.Man (May 5, 2011)

flatline said:


> I've been noticing that that all my non-cree lights have nicer beams than my cree lights. Anyone know why this is?


 It depends on what you mean by "nicer". It could just be that you're not especially fond of the Cree "look".


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## Bass (May 5, 2011)

I own a couple of McGizmo offerings with High CRI (Nichia LEDs) and they are fantastic. I would go with CRI above output anyday. Once you have experienced the difference you will not look at LED's the same again.

The fact that these are neutral (ish) in colour temp - 4000K - makes them really interesting. I'm not a lover of 'incan' brown but that is just my personal taste. I am amazed nobody has done high CRI headlamp type lights before, seems the obvious choice to me. Good job ZebraLight.

I only own one light with a Luxeon Rebel emitter in it and it is brilliant - nice creamy tint, very smooth beam profile, subtle hotspot and artifact free. The Luxeon emitters get a bit overlooked compared to the CREE's because they are not as efficient, can't be driven as hard and generally produce less Lumens. It's a shame they are great LEDs.

I'm keen to read some more user experiences. Thanks guys!


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## StandardBattery (May 5, 2011)

Bass said:


> ... I am amazed nobody has done high CRI headlamp type lights before, seems the obvious choice to me. Good job ZebraLight.
> ....


 Just so you know; this is a ZebraLight Flashlight, not headlamp. That might be coming soon.


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## StandardBattery (May 5, 2011)

I thought I might have mine today, but no show... Maybe I'll get it tomorrow.


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## OfficerSheepDog (May 5, 2011)

I hope for you that it comes in the mail tommorow!

Now you must promise us beamshots or we will contemplate bad things!


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## ZebraLight (May 6, 2011)

Harry999 said:


> So are the High CRI SC51s actually in production and shipping? The Zebralight website still details a late June production commencement date? This is the only thing stopping me ordering. I don't like to pay for preorders when there are things I need to buy immediately...



The SC51c is not in production yet. We had a small batch preproduction run to verify the new reflector designed for the rebel. 
That 'late June' has been moved to 'late May'.


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## Bass (May 6, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> Just so you know; this is a ZebraLight Flashlight, not headlamp. That might be coming soon.


 
Does it not come with a headstrap and attachment


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## hazna (May 6, 2011)

Hi zebralight, any chance these high CRI emitters will also make it into the H51 series? I would definitely been keen for a headlight version. I wear glasses and I find the SC51 series 'side mount' results in too much refraction


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## ZebraLight (May 6, 2011)

hazna said:


> Hi zebralight, any chance these high CRI emitters will also make it into the H51 series? I would definitely been keen for a headlight version. I wear glasses and I find the SC51 series 'side mount' results in too much refraction



All models with xp-g emitters will have a 'c' version in the future.


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## calipsoii (May 6, 2011)

ZebraLight said:


> All models with xp-g emitters will have a 'c' version in the future.



lovecpf


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## flatline (May 6, 2011)

ZebraLight said:


> All models with xp-g emitters will have a 'c' version in the future.


 
This is great news!

--flatline


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## gunga (May 6, 2011)

Woah! I will have to check these out. Great Job Zebralight!


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## JA(me)S (May 6, 2011)

- Jas.


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## JohnF (May 6, 2011)

Wow, so I got a 'pre-production'? It sure looks production to me, everything is about perfect.

It does come with a head strap, so it must be a headlamp, no? Not a wide beam pattern, but does that make it not a headlamp? I've got the original reflector-less ZL, their very first model. Still use it often.

I'll give color rendition shots one more try.

John F


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## JA(me)S (May 6, 2011)

JohnF said:


> I'll give color rendition shots one more try.


Yes, please do... at this point, I'll take a good pencil sketch rendition...

- Jas.


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## hazna (May 6, 2011)

ZebraLight said:


> All models with xp-g emitters will have a 'c' version in the future.



w00t! Fantastic news! Zebralight gotta be one of my favourite brands, now.


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## Harry999 (May 7, 2011)

ZebraLight said:


> The SC51c is not in production yet. We had a small batch preproduction run to verify the new reflector designed for the rebel.
> That 'late June' has been moved to 'late May'.


 
Thanks for letting us know Zebralight. I have placed my preorder anyway. I will also order a floody High CRI headlamp when it is available.

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## OfficerSheepDog (May 7, 2011)

Zebralight Post some Beamshots please, And some of the cool whites vs neutrals vs your high cri's

Its the only thing stopping me from ordering one.


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## Illumination (May 7, 2011)

OfficerSheepDog said:


> Zebralight Post some Beamshots please, And some of the cool whites vs neutrals vs your high cri's
> 
> Its the only thing stopping me from ordering one.



Yes. Zebralight should post pictures of all of their variants (W, WF, C, etc.). I can't figure out which one to get so I haven't bought any...


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## StandardBattery (May 9, 2011)

I was under the mistaken impression, that my light had shipped from Texas, but of course it shipped from China, and just got out of Beijing on the 7th, so it will be a while yet before I get it. I kept wondering why it was not here yet, and finally went back to the shipping notice and decoded the complicated instructions to track the package. A nice click this link would have been nice... the only link in the email produced just some error-message. I'll check in a few days to see if it only works once some information is entered in North America. 

For some reason I'm pretty excited to try this one out. Maybe now I can relax since it know it will be a few days to a week plus before I get it.


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## Brasso (May 9, 2011)

Mine just arrived this afternoon. It has a very nice tint. Very nice. I compared it to my Malkoff M61w, the cooler version. and although they compare favorably in tint, the Rebel has nicer color rendition. Mind you, the difference doesn't jump out at you, but it is noticeable. The M61w puts out great light as well, but there is a noticeable bit of blue in it that is absent in the Zebralight. It really is like a piece of the sun.


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## StandardBattery (May 9, 2011)

Brasso said:


> Mine just arrived this afternoon. It has a very nice tint. Very nice. I compared it to my Malkoff M61w, the cooler version. and although they compare favorably in tint, the Rebel has nicer color rendition. Mind you, the difference doesn't jump out at you, but it is noticeable. The M61w puts out great light as well, but there is a noticeable bit of blue in it that is absent in the Zebralight. It really is like a piece of the sun.


 
OK now... I'm back to really wanting this light!!! Where are located, are you in North America?


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## Glock27 (May 9, 2011)

http://www.zebralight.com/SC51c-AA-Flashlight-85-CRI_p_54.html

They're in Irvine, TX.

G27


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## Brasso (May 9, 2011)

I'm in Alabama.


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## moshow9 (May 9, 2011)

Brasso said:


> I'm in Alabama.


 Just to approximate/gauge it, what was your order date? I'd like to think mine will arrive tomorrow, but that is wishful thinking on my part. Realistically, I think I am looking at the time frame posted by StandardBattery.


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## StandardBattery (May 10, 2011)

Brasso said:


> I'm in Alabama.


 Nice! OK my original ship notice was on the 3rd, left Beijing on the 7th, so it's possible I will get it this week... but I have to stop hoping... it will come when it comes.... most important is that I like it...


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## Brasso (May 10, 2011)

I ordered it on April 3rd.


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## Lighthearted1 (May 12, 2011)

Waiting for a H60c... Hoping.....


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## low (May 12, 2011)

Lighthearted1 said:


> Waiting for a H60c... Hoping.....



That would be nice.


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## azzid (May 13, 2011)

> All models with xp-g emitters will have a 'c' version in the future.


sc60c ftw!


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## hatman (May 13, 2011)

ZebraLight said:


> The SC51c is not in production yet. We had a small batch preproduction run to verify the new reflector designed for the rebel.
> That 'late June' has been moved to 'late May'.


 
ZebraLight, does the 51c have the same old switch or an improved one similar to the SC600?


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## ZebraLight (May 13, 2011)

hatman said:


> ZebraLight, does the 51c have the same old switch or an improved one similar to the SC600?



The 51c uses the same switch design as the other 51s.


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## hatman (May 13, 2011)

ZebraLight said:


> The 51c uses the same switch design as the other 51s.



Thank you.


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## Kalsu (May 13, 2011)

I was reading on here about the SC600 and how they redesigned the switch so that it is more recessed and the button is 40% harder to press. Does anyone know if that same switch design will be incorporated into the SC51c?


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## JA(me)S (May 13, 2011)

wade11a said:


> I was reading on here about the SC600 and how they redesigned the switch so that it is more recessed and the button is 40% harder to press. Does anyone know if that same switch design will be incorporated into the SC51c?





ZebraLight said:


> The 51c uses the same switch design as the other 51s.



ZL just answered a couple of posts prior to yours.

- Jas.


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## Paolos (May 13, 2011)

Guys, I was looking at buying my first zebra light and decided on the regular sc51. My query is the actual colour of the flashlight itself, not the light. In some pictures they are black, other times they are green, yet there are never any choices for body colour. I heard that they are actually all a gun metal grey colour and depending on the light or the quality of the camera they appear differently. Is this the case?


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## Kalsu (May 13, 2011)

JA(me)S said:


> ZL just answered a couple of posts prior to yours.
> 
> - Jas.


 

I missed that post. Thanks.


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## st_burt (May 13, 2011)

Paolos said:


> Guys, I was looking at buying my first zebra light and decided on the regular sc51. My query is the actual colour of the flashlight itself, not the light. In some pictures they are black, other times they are green, yet there are never any choices for body colour. I heard that they are actually all a gun metal grey colour and depending on the light or the quality of the camera they appear differently. Is this the case?


 
I have 6 Zebralights, and they're all the same natural HA colour (green/grey). I've never heard of a black ZL, although that doesn't mean there isn't one. I'm pretty sure it's just differences in pictures though, and all the lights are green.


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## Brasso (May 13, 2011)

I have two of them, and have had several others. They have all been a shade of HA green, but not all the identical shade. Some of the early ones had an almost glossy finish, and the later ones more of a rough feel. They are similar, but not exact duplicates.


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## Harry999 (May 14, 2011)

I've just had my shipping confirmation. Thanks Zebralight!

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## low (May 17, 2011)

WHAT!!!!!! Still no beamshots! There has to be someone here that has a SC51w to compare with the SC51c by now. 
Please if you do not have pics, whats your take on it? Is there a big difference in output between the two? 
Enquiring minds wanna know!

Low


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## StandardBattery (May 17, 2011)

low said:


> WHAT!!!!!! Still no beamshots! There has to be someone here that has a SC51w to compare with the SC51c by now.
> Please if you do not have pics, whats your take on it? Is there a big difference in output between the two?
> Enquiring minds wanna know!
> Low


I think they are on the slow boat, not the airplane.


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## low (May 17, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> I think they are on the slow boat, not the airplane.



A very slow boat indeed.


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## StandardBattery (May 20, 2011)

*IT'S HERE *


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## JA(me)S (May 20, 2011)

Congrats! - now the looong nine hours till sunset... keep us posted!


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## pjandyho (May 20, 2011)

Is it very warm in tint or is it closer to neutral white? Let us know please.


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## calipsoii (May 20, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> *IT'S HERE *


 
Take pictures. Report back. Win acclaim.


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## low (May 20, 2011)

All I really need to now is, are there a big difference on high 1 and high2 between the SC51w and the SC51c. 
If there is not that big of a difference, it is a no brainer for me.
Thanks,

Low


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## Chongker (May 20, 2011)

Got mine today!. Verdict is, pretty good. Still prefer the beam on my Malkoff M61 HICRI (XPG), but this is good too. The colors don't pop out quite as much IMHO, though the slightly cooler tint is quite interesting. I've always been an incan fan, so warmer LED tints don't bother me at all, though I can see the attraction in the Rebel's tint for those who don't like the classic, glowing, warm, "yellow" tint (I really am biased here )


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## mrlysle (May 20, 2011)

Paolos said:


> Guys, I was looking at buying my first zebra light and decided on the regular sc51. My query is the actual colour of the flashlight itself, not the light. In some pictures they are black, other times they are green, yet there are never any choices for body colour. I heard that they are actually all a gun metal grey colour and depending on the light or the quality of the camera they appear differently. Is this the case?



I have a SC51 and a SC60w and they're not EXACTLY the same color. You'll be hard pressed to get matching tints with HA if I understand the process correctly. Nevertheless, I feel both of my Zebralights are beautiful in fit/finish.


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## moshow9 (May 20, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> *IT'S HERE *


 
Woohoo, mine arrived today too. I'm at work and without any AA batteries.


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## Chongker (May 20, 2011)

Just a few pics for comparison all pics with exposure adjusted so brightness looks about equal between the different lights for all the photos, but WB set to daylight for CCT and CRI comparisons.

The lights:







From left to right: Sunwayman V10R Ti, Dereelight Javelin with Malkoff M31w, ZL SC51c, Solarforce L2X with Malkoff M61 HICRI and lastly an old G3 with LF incan dropin.



Control shot:








Sunwayman first of all. A good light by all means, just deserves a better LED IMHO:








M31W next, here mostly to show that low CCT doesn't necessarily confer high CRI:








The light everyone is interested in now, the SC51c. IMO the colors do pop out more than with the neutral XPG, though the difference isn't as noticeable as with the cool white XPG:








My favourite LED of the lot, the XPG high CRI in a Malkoff M61 :thumbsup::








For reference's sake, a 100 CRI incan, and but of course nothing can really replace a well driven incan in my heart. Though if you look back, the 90+ CRI XPG is pretty darn good  Look at those colours pop!










To finish off, a look at the rebel:









Hope this helps some people! Not the best at beamshots and this is by no means a comprehensive review. Just as a reference point in case people are interested. Sorry I can't comment on the SC51w as I don't have one. Enjoy!

Patrick


Note: I realise now looking at the photos that I probably should have bounced the lights so there is less difference in beam profiles, and could have included more green, but this was quick and dirty, so please don't take things out on me too hard :nana:


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## JA(me)S (May 20, 2011)

:kewlpics::thanks:

- Jas.


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## calipsoii (May 20, 2011)

Nice beamshots, thank you! :thumbsup:

At 85CRI I wasn't expecting amazing color rendering, and these shots pretty much confirm that. If anything, it'll be the 4000k that really makes this light easy on the eyes (especially compared to that 6500k SWM).

I would like to see a *tiny* bit more red in the tint though. The Rebel looks like it suffers from the same problem as the neutral Crees: a bit too green in the 4000k range. The only company that seems to make a 4000k LED with any red in it is Luminus.


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## Chongker (May 20, 2011)

Someone needs to take this thing outside! Don't have the time to do it myself tonight. The 5+ hour runtime on my Malkoff M61 HICRI setup was amazing on my last walk, though it's size in prohibitive for EDC. Was considering transferring it to a good ol' 6P, but the ZL fills that spot in nicely now, competing with the much more expensive Sunwayman (planning for a mod in due course)


I do agree the rendering isn't the most amazing I've seen, but it's still a small step up from the neutral crees. On white wall hunting, it does seem quite green as you said, more so that the neutral XPG in the M31, though when shining on colourful things, I do notice a slight improvement in differentiating different shades of the same colour, like greens and reds, though the difference is probably not dramatic enough to convert neutral lovers from the lower CRI yet still very efficient neutral XPGs. The 90+CRI XPG, however, is exceptional, if you don't mind warm tints.



EDIT: Just noticing how bad the light coming from my bathroom light looks XD


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## StandardBattery (May 20, 2011)

*NICE PICS *Chongker!!




JA(me)S said:


> Congrats! - now the looong nine hours till sunset... keep us posted!


Count down started.



calipsoii said:


> Take pictures. Report back. .....


I set up for a controlled indoor shot, hope it works, it rainy cloudy and I'm sick, so getting a good control shot may not have been possible tried a few things and also did a flash shot for the control. Have not checked the control shots yet.



moshow9 said:


> Woohoo, mine arrived today too. I'm at work and without any AA batteries.


I was caught without batteries as well. Funny I have my battery waiting for the SC600 and I have not even ordered it yet, but nothing for the SC51c, I was probably figuring I'd just rob something else but for for pictures I should be better prepaired. Put a couple Powerex in the charger, I hope they will be good by dark. I might be able to start with something else if needed.

I'm busy with a few other things right now so I have not opened the package yet, because once I do I won't get anything else done.

Hopefully Chongker's pictures have allowed everyone to relax a bit... now the pressure is off me. Which is good as I've never attempted beam shots before and I'm not going to dig out the tripod or SLR so this might be a little challenging.

If my Indoor shots workout, maybe I'll venture outside maybe for a couple.


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## Chongker (May 20, 2011)

Blasphemy! Not having batteries to power every light imaginable :nana:


Hopefully you'll be able to take some better shots highlighting what this LED can or can't do. Outdoor shots would be great, seeing how this thing renders trails would probably be more informative than seeing how it renders my bathroom's bath products


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## moshow9 (May 20, 2011)

FWIW, while small, the difference between the SC51w and SC51c is noticeable as there is a bit more pop with the High CRI. To my eyes the beam also appears to be cleaner on the High CRI and it has a slightly smaller/tighter hotspot. I don't know if I'll continue to own both (have 2 SC51w's), but I think I'll like the SC51c more. Now to wait until dark.


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## StandardBattery (May 20, 2011)




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## StandardBattery (May 20, 2011)

I'm still very impressed with the Sundrop and really surprised with the color of the SC60w on H1. These images accurately reflect what my eyes see. I looked at a lot of artwork which to me is the ultimate test for High CRI and and I looked at general stuff. 

The H51c is impressive compared to regular lights. What is not shown here is how consistent the CRI on the SC51c is for the different levels. So far this is my greatest surprise and what I think really separates it from the other simply warm or neutral lights. I think this makes it a very good EDC light, and I think I would take it over the SC51w. I didn't dig out my SC51w as with a herd of Zebra it gets hard to recognize their different stripes after a while. I might do that in the future if there are more questions. It might be interesting to note the lumen output differences. I do wish the SC51c had a bit more output, I look forward to a SC31c or and 18650 variety.

Should I try for outdoor shots?


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## OfficerSheepDog (May 21, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> Should I try for outdoor shots?



Is that a legitimate question? You realize who you are talking too? OF COURSE OUTDOOR BEAMSHOTS! :kewlpics:

Looking foward to em! Thanks =D


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## Brasso (May 21, 2011)

That SC60w on high does produce some nice looking light. Hard to tell the difference between it and the SC51c. I'm tempted to get one, but the fact that it can't take flat button cells is holding me back.


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## JA(me)S (May 21, 2011)

Thanks Standard Battery for posting these shots - a lot of questions have been answered by your work. If this is your first attempt at beamshots, you have done an incredible job!

For some reason, I tended to focus on the two pieces left of the Crown Royal - maybe because those are known colors to me. It was here I felt the SC51c compared very favorably with the Sundrop. Both seemed to pick up the color gradients within these two pieces very well.

I agree with you (and am a little surprised) at the SC60w's H1 color rendition performance. 

Rarely do I actually laugh at a comment within a post, but this line produced a good chuckle!


StandardBattery said:


> I didn't dig out my SC51w as with a herd of Zebra it gets hard to recognize their different stripes after a while.


 
However, I know there are folks here within CPF that would love to see the SC51w and SC51c compared - myself included. I think there are those trying to decide between these two lights specifically... and shots comparing the color rendition and beam profile among these two lights would be helpful.

Again, :goodjob: with the amazingly detailed :kewlpics: 

- Jas.


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## StandardBattery (May 21, 2011)

JA(me)S said:


> Thanks Standard Battery for posting these shots - a lot of questions have been answered by your work. If this is your first attempt at beamshots, you have done an incredible job!
> ....
> Again, :goodjob: with the amazingly detailed :kewlpics:


Thanks for the king words, it was interesting, I'm glad they worked out as well as they did, and that you found it useful. I found it quite interesting, but I've been interested in tints and color for a long time. This task was a one reason to have so many ZebraLights I guess. Maybe I've got a really good SC60w, or maybe I should buy a backup ASAP!



JA(me)S said:


> .....
> However, I know there are folks here within CPF that would love to see the SC51w and SC51c compared - myself included. I think there are those trying to decide between these two lights specifically... and shots comparing the color rendition and beam profile among these two lights would be helpful.
> ....


 
I'm surprised there are not more comments so maybe everyone is now satisfied and moved on to the next big thing like the SC600. 

I still have the items setup so maybe after dark I'll compare the SC51c and SC51w. I'm still thinking about how to do outdoor shots... seems very difficult without using a tripod and a good location. I can be a bit picky; the indoor shots push the limits of hand-held, outdoor just may not be possible with these small lights.


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## JA(me)S (May 21, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> I'm surprised there are not more comments...


Spring weekend...I bet you'll get more requests later - right people?

 - Jas.


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## StandardBattery (May 21, 2011)

ZebraLight SC51w color test with same scene. 

I have included here a new SC51c shot at the same exposure but I move the hotspot more out of the frame for a more even illumination and better contrast.

Since the Spill on the SC51w is quite a bit dimmer I've shot the scene with the same exposure (scene will be darker), and with adjusted exposure (apparant brightness should be similar) as compared to the original SC51c. This difference was about 2/3 of a stop so that the different between the spill on the w and c versions. The brighter spill on the new SC51c is a definite improvement over the SC51w for EDC a near field work in my view. 

Note: once resized, and saved as jpg the exposure difference (brightness), does not exactly match the original.

The color temperture of the 51c is definetly more towards neutral which is also nice.


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## low (May 21, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> I'm surprised there are not more comments so maybe everyone is now satisfied and moved on to the next big thing like the SC600.




Hey my man, THIS is the next big thing. Performance over power anytime.


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## StandardBattery (May 21, 2011)

low said:


> Hey my man, THIS is the next big thing. Performance over power anytime.


 
Well you're right about that. ... Checking outdoor photos now. It started raining though, I'll have to run out again to get a better subjective interpretation.


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## StandardBattery (May 21, 2011)

Here are some REALLY poor outdoor shots... hopefully I can get better ones later, or someone else can... I'll try to do some subjective testing so I can comment. Sory but it was much harder to control the test outside, and it started raining which I had not counted on.


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## JA(me)S (May 21, 2011)

StandardBattery,

Of the two interior SC51w pics - which was closer to what your eye registered (I know, very subjective...)

I don't know what I'm more impressed with:


your new found gift at interior color rendition comparison shots
the SC51c's beam profile and over all balance (with decent CRI)
the fact that, after 24 week-end hours, the Crown Royal looks to be untouched...
- Jas.


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## StandardBattery (May 21, 2011)

I went out again and took a few more shots, they turned out maybe a little better, but I don't think enough to warrant posting. Within range the two lights are pretty close outdoors. I don't know that one would really benefit from one light over the other, at least not in the green/brown environment. I happen to think the SC60w beats them both outdoors, but that's maybe partly due to it's output.


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## StandardBattery (May 21, 2011)

JA(me)S said:


> StandardBattery,
> 
> Of the two interior SC51w pics - which was closer to what your eye registered (I know, very subjective...)
> 
> ...


 
Well I probbaly should have had some scotch. 

While I've never done beam shots, or flashlight illuminated images, I've taken a few pictures in my day. The hard thing is working with the crippled awkward interfaces of small pocket cameras... and not using a tripod when I know I should be.... but it can be liberating to break all the rules and say good enough.

_>Of the two interior SC51w pics_
They both look pretty much the same to me if I ignore the area with the glare from the hotspot and the different in framing/size, so I'm not sure how to answer that.


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## pjandyho (May 22, 2011)

Thank you StandardBattery. Although I am hard pressed to tell the difference in color rendition between both the SC51w and SC51c, I do know that I prefer the more floody beam of the SC51c from your outdoor beam shots.


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## StandardBattery (May 22, 2011)

pjandyho said:


> Thank you StandardBattery. Although I am hard pressed to tell the difference in color rendition between both the SC51w and SC51c, I do know that I prefer the more floody beam of the SC51c from your outdoor beam shots.


I think from the pictures the most accurate judgement one can make is color temperature being higher on the SC51c (compared to w), but it's really hard to do any type of color rendoring conclusion because the brightnesses and color temps are different. One would probably need to be photograhing a color chart and we'd all need color calibrated displays.

Overall the SC51c appears to have several subtle differences that make for a better all round EDC light. As you mentioned the beam is floodier, it does not actually cover a much bigger radius; technically it is probably nearly identical except the spill is quite a bit brighter, so in theory more of the radius is useful. The hotspot is also more diffused and the transition is much nicer. The color temp is slightly cooler, and spectrum balance is at least as good if not better. So like I mentioned, between the two I think the SC51c is the winner. I need to do a few most tests for throw. Outdoors it was harder to see a difference in the beams color characteristics, so I'll want to experiment with that a bit more as I have time.


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## pjandyho (May 22, 2011)

I had actually sworn not to buy any SC50 or 51 series since I dislike the switch as it gets activated too easily in my pocket, but your beam shots and description of the SC51c's beam characteristics cause me to want to make an exception for this time round and just get the SC51c. Maybe I should wait for the SC60c? Or H51c?


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## StandardBattery (May 22, 2011)

I might do the white wall shot to show the basic beams tonight if I have time . I'm going to be very busy this week. I definetly think they need to get this LED in an H model. It's kind of sad the first time I pull the SC51w out of the box it's been beat out by it's young brother. Oh well in a couple of days, back in the box of history it goes I guess.


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## curtis22 (May 22, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> [deletia]


What was the camera's color balance setting? Thanks for the pictures.


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## StandardBattery (May 22, 2011)

curtis22 said:


> What was the camera's color balance setting? Thanks for the pictures.


 Daylight


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## low (May 22, 2011)

Thank you StandardBattery It all helps. I really like the fact that it has more spill. 
Now if that slow boat will get here....

Low


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## B0wz3r (May 22, 2011)

StandardBattery said:


> I
> Overall the SC51c appears to have several subtle differences that make for a better all round EDC light. As you mentioned the beam is floodier, it does not actually cover a much bigger radius; technically it is probably nearly identical except the spill is quite a bit brighter, so in theory more of the radius is useful. The hotspot is also more diffused and the transition is much nicer.


 
Thanks for that info... my current pocket EDC is an SC50w+ and I use diffusion film on it to spread the hotspot and make it floodier. It sounds like the 51c is even better for that kind of beam profile, which is what I really prefer in an EDC light.


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## Harry999 (May 23, 2011)

My SC51c had arrived today but it is back at the depot. I can't pick it up until Wednesday unless I can sneak out of work tomorrow which is unlikely. Oh well I should have it in two days...

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## akajimmy (May 24, 2011)

I just ordered one. Can't wait to try it out. My first zebralight too.


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## Stanley_BA (May 24, 2011)

Is there any difference in power noticable between the SC51w and SC51c ? Because I don´t see any on the beamshots. But 172lm vs. 130lm should be visible or? So can you see a difference when you compare them side by side?


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## tre (May 24, 2011)

Thanks guys for all the pics.

Chongker, where did you get a Malkoff M61 with a high CRI emitter? Did you do a custom job yourself?


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## Brasso (May 24, 2011)

Malkoff M61hcri at Illuminationsupply


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## pjandyho (May 24, 2011)

tre said:


> Thanks guys for all the pics.
> 
> Chongker, where did you get a Malkoff M61 with a high CRI emitter? Did you do a custom job yourself?


 


Brasso said:


> Malkoff M61hcri at Illuminationsupply


 
M61HCRI. Love it! It's tint is warm in the 3000k range but is still very nice. Seems to be available only at Illumination Supply. I don't even see it in Malkoff's website.


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## StandardBattery (May 24, 2011)

Stanley_BA said:


> Is there any difference in power noticable between the SC51w and SC51c ? Because I don´t see any on the beamshots. But 172lm vs. 130lm should be visible or? So can you see a difference when you compare them side by side?


 It's a good question. If you look at the second set of pictures comparing the SC51c and SC51w you'll see I took too shots of the SC51w because the SC51c has a noticable brighter spill (2/3 stop) so indoors to be the SC51c looks brighter than the SC51w, the opposite one might expect from the specs. Outdoors the difference is not as noticeable, but for some reason I don't find the brighter hotspot on the SC51w has any real noticable increase in throw. 

So at least on my samples, both running 2700mAh Powerex NiMh cells; the SC51c I would have to say appears brighter. Also, just in general knowing my other lights I would say my SC51w is not reaching 170lm on a NiMh cell. Maybe I'm spoiled though and I need to recalibrate my eyes.

Luckily my EDC is the SC60w, a REAL burner and just one of the best EDC lights I've had. Also strange, but so far no accidental activation as it rides in the cargo pocket after a couple weeks. I put the SC51c in the opposite pocket the other day, and accidental activation on the first day. I'd definetly lockout the the SC51 series lights.


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## Glock27 (May 24, 2011)

When will the SC60c be available?

G27


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## hazna (May 25, 2011)

I'm waiting for a H51c!


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## Lighthearted1 (May 25, 2011)

I am waiting for the H600c! (Neutral high CRI XM-L headlamp x 18650) if they ever create one (I know, Cree has to invent the emitter first). Well maybe a H600w is not too far off. (Spark is working on SD5 AAx2 right now).


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## pjandyho (May 25, 2011)

I am waiting for all the C. Then I will decide which one to get. Maybe a few of them.


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## Chongker (May 25, 2011)

Lighthearted1 said:


> I am waiting for the H600c! (Neutral high CRI XM-L headlamp x 18650) if they ever create one (I know, Cree has to invent the emitter first). Well maybe a H600w is not too far off. (Spark is working on SD5 AAx2 right now).


 

Actually, if you look at cree's website, under the Easywhite XML section, there IS a 90+ CRI XML (technically speaking)

It's still called an XML but it's actually a quad die under the hood, so might pose some problems with focusing.


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## Chongker (May 25, 2011)

pjandyho said:


> M61HCRI. Love it! It's tint is warm in the 3000k range but is still very nice. Seems to be available only at Illumination Supply. I don't even see it in Malkoff's website.


 

Yup, the M61HCRI is currently exclusive to Craig at Illumination Supply. I think he got Gene to custom make some for him specifically in a couple of batches. They're pretty limited, so I'm glad to have one, though I now wish I had bought 2 or 3


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## pjandyho (May 25, 2011)

Chongker said:


> Yup, the M61HCRI is currently exclusive to Craig at Illumination Supply. I think he got Gene to custom make some for him specifically in a couple of batches. They're pretty limited, so I'm glad to have one, though I now wish I had bought 2 or 3


 You could actually order some more from Craig. He is nice to deal with and as long as there are requests for it, I am sure he would try to fulfill the orders. I am thinking of ordering one more but I am not sure if I would like to try the 3700K neutral white this time round. I have a 4000K M61W on the way from him so I will see how it turns out.


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## Chongker (May 25, 2011)

Yea, agree that Craig is great to deal with, though the shipping and import tax is slightly prohibitive when I buy from the States. I've got an M31W and I can definitely say I prefer the HCRI, though that's just me.

But anyway, getting OT here.

Had the chance to handle an SC51w as well, and I can confirm that I like the tint on the C much better. The neutral XPG just looks kinda greenish in comparison, and missing some of the magenta that's in the C. Difference in brightness was not noticable (or just barely), I wonder if runtimes will be the same though?

And also, just looked at the Easywhite XML datasheet again, they come in either 6V or 12V Vf, so they are ruled out unless ZL completely redesigns their circuits. I guess those LEDs are more targeted towards fixed lighting.


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## Kalsu (May 25, 2011)

I just got my SC51c out of the mail. It is well put together and the anodizing looks great. The beam in the SC51c, to me, looks slightly warmer than my SC60w. It is definitely cooler than my Quark AA warm though. I really like the way the SC51c reproduces colors though. The colors seem very natural and "sun" like. I think it will find its way into my pocket a lot.


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## low (May 25, 2011)

I have another question for you SC51c owners. How is the spacing with the light. On paper it seems as if the M1 and M2 are pretty close together. And quite a big jump from L2 to M2. How is it in real life?

Low


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## Harry999 (May 26, 2011)

I finally picked up my SC51c today. I really like it. Even in daylight you could see the colour rendering was much better than my SC51. 

In all honesty I prefer it to my High CRI clicky because the beam is less focused and not a warm red. This is going to be one of my regular edc lights.

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## Brasso (May 26, 2011)

Just fyi, but I've had many Zebralights, and sometimes they seem finicky about turning on. The problem I've found is that they are shipped with grease on the contact points. Use some deoxit on a Qtip and clean the contact points in the tailcap, spring, and inside the body at the head. This will not only make the light 100% to use, it will usually make it brighter as well.


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## JA(me)S (May 26, 2011)

Good to know - thanks for the tip Brasso!

- Jas.


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## B0wz3r (May 26, 2011)

low said:


> I have another question for you SC51c owners. How is the spacing with the light. On paper it seems as if the M1 and M2 are pretty close together. And quite a big jump from L2 to M2. How is it in real life?
> 
> Low



Here's the specs from ZL's website:

Light Output
High: H1 130 Lm (0.9 hrs) or H2 63 Lm (2.4 hrs) / 80 Lm (1.7 hrs) / 4Hz Strobe
Medium: M1 29 Lm (9 hrs) or M2 14 Lm (24 hrs)
Low: L1 2.8 Lm (3 days) or L2 0.3 Lm (16 days)

On average it takes a 3x increase in the physical intensity of light for us to perceive a doubling in brightness (brightness is the perceptual/experiential correlate of intensity). So, the jump between L1 and L2 should be pretty significant - a perceived increase of several times, and the same for the L1 to M2 jump. The jump from M2 to M1 should be noticeable enough to make a difference, but not tremendous. (On my SC50w+ the M2 to M1 jump is 18 to 36 and it is noticeable; the only way it really makes a difference is indoors, so that M2 tends to be better for me for my indoor use, while M1 works better for me for my outdoor use.) If H2 is set to 63 then the jump from M1 to H2 should look just about twice as bright, and the jump from H2(63) to H1 should appear about half again as bright.

On my SC50w+ the H1 is 107 and the M1 is 36, and sometimes I find that while M1 is not bright enough, H1 is too bright. For me at least, this smaller jump from M1 to H2(63) means that the H2(63) setting will be more useful to me. Also, on the SC50w+, I find the jump from L2 to L1 to be too much sometimes as well; the lower L2 and L1 on the 51c and the smaller jump to L1 from L2 might be a nicer spacing to my eyes.

In short, based on my experiences with my 50w+, my knowledge of psychophysics and visual perception, and the published specs of the 51c, I'd say the spacings will appear more evenly distributed to most people than the spacings on the 50w+. (I haven't thought to compare these numbers above to those of my H51w (which has identical settings to the SC51w), but if I get the chance to do so, I'll let you know how it seems.



Brasso said:


> Just fyi, but I've had many Zebralights, and sometimes they seem finicky about turning on. The problem I've found is that they are shipped with grease on the contact points. Use some deoxit on a Qtip and clean the contact points in the tailcap, spring, and inside the body at the head. This will not only make the light 100% to use, it will usually make it brighter as well.


 
Thanks Brasso, that's a good tip. I need to order some maintenance supplies for my lights, and was planning on getting some deoxit, but now I think I should probably also get some nyogel for them too, and stop using lower quality, readily available alternatives I already have on hand that I don't have to order or pay for.


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## StandardBattery (Jun 2, 2011)

From Headlamps forum; the high CRI ('c' option), presuming same Rebel LED, is now available in a couple headlamps listed for Pre-Order.


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## Harry999 (Jun 2, 2011)

Thanks for letting us know, Standard Battery. I have just ordered the H51Fc and the H51c. I really like the SC51c I already have and I can see the two headlamps respectively making great reading and general use lights. The quality of the beam is just great on the SC51c. It is very different to the SC51 although I like that as well. Way to go, Zebralight!


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## EV_007 (Jun 3, 2011)

... must resist. (Looking away from the light.)


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## Harry999 (Jun 4, 2011)

Believe me that this is the first Zebralight offering that has caught my eye in some time. I love that ZL are prepared to provide High CRI lights in flashlight and headlamp form. 

The SC51c has become my go to edc light. I know that ZL always provides an excellent quality tint and the UI is one of the best.

Even better ZL continue to push the envelope with the new models they have let us know are in development.

Can you tell I am a fan?

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## BARBARIAN-X (Jun 4, 2011)

Am I missing some benefit to this light that I am not aware of? If you're trying to achieve un-tinted color reference levels you need a light that is between 5400K - 6500K with a minimum of 90 CRI. This light does not have either of those so what is so special about it?


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## Harry999 (Jun 4, 2011)

I am not sure of the science and technical specifications behind it but I have tested the SC51c against my other ZL warm lights and my Quark Neutral White. My SC51c was definitely better for colour rendition. I also preferred the SC51c to my HDS high CRI clicky and twisty.

Of course that could just be how my eyes react to the tint and beam of the SC51c...

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## low (Jun 4, 2011)

B0wz3r said:


> In short, based on my experiences with my 50w+, my knowledge of psychophysics and visual perception, and the published specs of the 51c, I'd say the spacings will appear more evenly distributed to most people than the spacings on the 50w+. (I haven't thought to compare these numbers above to those of my H51w (which has identical settings to the SC51w), but if I get the chance to do so, I'll let you know how it seems.





Thanks B0wz3r,

That helps alot, it will be my next light to get! 

Low


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## packer (Jun 5, 2011)

*SC51c vs. SC51w*

I understand the differences and tradeoffs in the c vs. w versions of the SC51 lights - higher CRI but lower lumens vs. lower CRI vs. higher lumens. For those of you with both of these lights, what are your thoughts? The SC51w seems to get great reviews for its neutral tint, so is the c's color rendition really that big of a step up? Is the loss of lumens (40 or so) pretty insignificant? I guess what I'm wondering is, does the introduction of the SC51c pretty much obsolete the w version or what? Just tell me which one to buy!!! People on here seem to prefer the newer c version, but I'm just wondering if that's because it's hot off the production line...


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## low (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: SC51c vs. SC51w*



packer said:


> I understand the differences and tradeoffs in the c vs. w versions of the SC51 lights - higher CRI but lower lumens vs. lower CRI vs. higher lumens. For those of you with both of these lights, what are your thoughts? The SC51w seems to get great reviews for its neutral tint, so is the c's color rendition really that big of a step up? Is the loss of lumens (40 or so) pretty insignificant? I guess what I'm wondering is, does the introduction of the SC51c pretty much obsolete the w version or what? Just tell me which one to buy!!! People on here seem to prefer the newer c version, but I'm just wondering if that's because it's hot off the production line...




The one thing that caught my eye was the fact that the spill is brighter than on the SC51w while still having a hotspot. Good for what I want to do with it.


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## hatman (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: SC51c vs. SC51w*



packer said:


> I understand the differences and tradeoffs in the c vs. w versions of the SC51 lights - higher CRI but lower lumens vs. lower CRI vs. higher lumens. For those of you with both of these lights, what are your thoughts? The SC51w seems to get great reviews for its neutral tint, so is the c's color rendition really that big of a step up? Is the loss of lumens (40 or so) pretty insignificant? I guess what I'm wondering is, does the introduction of the SC51c pretty much obsolete the w version or what? Just tell me which one to buy!!! People on here seem to prefer the newer c version, but I'm just wondering if that's because it's hot off the production line...



Good question -- anyone else have an answer?


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## B0wz3r (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: SC51c vs. SC51w*



packer said:


> I understand the differences and tradeoffs in the c vs. w versions of the SC51 lights - higher CRI but lower lumens vs. lower CRI vs. higher lumens. For those of you with both of these lights, what are your thoughts? The SC51w seems to get great reviews for its neutral tint, so is the c's color rendition really that big of a step up? Is the loss of lumens (40 or so) pretty insignificant? I guess what I'm wondering is, does the introduction of the SC51c pretty much obsolete the w version or what? Just tell me which one to buy!!! People on here seem to prefer the newer c version, but I'm just wondering if that's because it's hot off the production line...


 
The loss of about 40 lumens will be noticeable, but in terms of how much difference it is, it won't be that much of a difference.

I don't think the 51c makes the 51w obsolete; I'd say it makes the plain old 51 obsolete, but that's just my opinion. The thing to keep in mind is what do you use your light for? If you want something with more punch and throw, then the w is clearly the model for you. But, if you want better color perception, and your primary uses for your EDC light don't require much throw, or if you're in the medical profession, the 51c is the better light.


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## Harry999 (Jun 5, 2011)

The answer low gave about spill is a good one. Even though this is not a flood beam I was able to use it to read after putting it in a nitecore headband. 

I have compared the SC51c to my SC31w which had a much higher lumen level than the SC51w. To my surprise I still found 
the SC51c to be the more pleasant light to use.

The SC31w is definitely brighter but you can definitely see the higher CRI beam producing a better visual effect. It is difficult to describe and it could just be my personal perception.

However, I like it enough to have placed a preorder for the H51c & the H51Fc...


Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


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## Filip (Jun 27, 2011)

Someone may find this useful: Fenix P2D's holster is a perfect holster for SC51.

(Sorry if this was mentioned already.)


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## igoman (Jun 27, 2011)

How does the ZB SC51c compare to Fenix LD10-r4, witch is rated about the same(132) lumens? Output, spill, throw?


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## Tuikku (Jun 27, 2011)

I´m a bit confused between w & c beam profiles.
Which one of these had bigger hotspot, I would quess SC51w?
If rebel SC51c has smaller hotspot, yet brighter flood, would it still be your choice beamwise? Not considering CRI or lumen output?

I´m having terrible time making choices, sorry lovecpf


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## B0wz3r (Jun 27, 2011)

Tuikku said:


> I´m a bit confused between w & c beam profiles.
> Which one of these had bigger hotspot, I would quess SC51w?
> If rebel SC51c has smaller hotspot, yet brighter flood, would it still be your choice beamwise? Not considering CRI or lumen output?
> 
> I´m having terrible time making choices, sorry lovecpf


 
In short, yes. I prefer as even an illumination I can get for a small EDC light, as 95% of the things I use it for are within 10' - 15' of me. I dislike even floody lights that have a very bright hotspot and a dim spill; I'd rather have less difference between them, and even better, the less defined the hotspot is, the better.


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## flatline (Jun 27, 2011)

B0wz3r said:


> In short, yes. I prefer as even an illumination I can get for a small EDC light, as 95% of the things I use it for are within 10' - 15' of me. I dislike even floody lights that have a very bright hotspot and a dim spill; I'd rather have less difference between them, and even better, the less defined the hotspot is, the better.


 
You should get an LF5XT. Its beam gradually dims from the center to the edge. It's not a perfectly even beam like the H501, but there is no defined hotspot at all.

-flatline


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## B0wz3r (Jun 27, 2011)

flatline said:


> You should get an LF5XT. Its beam gradually dims from the center to the edge. It's not a perfectly even beam like the H501, but there is no defined hotspot at all.
> 
> -flatline


 
That'd be great if I could find one... But I'm not about to spend more time than I have watching the marketplace for one. I'm pretty satisfied with the lights I have. I just wish LiteFlux would come back into the business with some new lights.


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## SaturnNyne (Jun 28, 2011)

B0wz3r said:


> I dislike even floody lights that have a very bright hotspot and a dim spill. . . .


Heh, that description hurt my head and confused me a little. :thinking: If a light has a bright spot and dim spill, doesn't it fail the definition of a floody light?


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## B0wz3r (Jun 28, 2011)

SaturnNyne said:


> Heh, that description hurt my head and confused me a little. :thinking: If a light has a bright spot and dim spill, doesn't it fail the definition of a floody light?


 
Sorry, I meant to say "I even dislike floody lights that have a very bright hotspot and a dim spill."


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## edc3 (Jul 9, 2011)

I got my SC51c last Saturday. After having done the requisite white wall hunting and a fair bit of real world use, I really like it. The tint is just about perfect - maybe just a touch warmer than my H31W (my only other neutral tinted light). The beam is excellent - one of the best I've seen. The hotspot is a little bigger than my H31W (X-PE) and the spill relative to the hotspot appears brighter. The transition from spot to spill is nice and smooth. The color rendition, though slightly better than my H31W and worlds better than any of my cool white emitters, is not as good as my High CRI Clicky, though it has a much better beam and tint than the Clicky. My Quark prism fits it very well, transforming the SC51c into mini, diffused angle light.












I've had a couple of pangs of buyer's remorse, wondering if I should have bought the SC51W, but I think the tradeoff of efficiency for slightly higher CRI and the excellent beam pattern is worth it. I wish I had the money to buy both. 

Here are some quick shots comparing the SC51c with a High CRI Clicky and a cool white Quark AA.

*Quark AA Cool White*





*SC51c*





*High CRI Clicky*


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## low (Jul 9, 2011)

edc3 said:


> My Quark prism fits it very well, transforming the SC51c into mini, diffused angle light.




Thanks for the pics, there great. But will you post a picture of the S51c and the S51c with difusser???
Thanks,

Low


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## edc3 (Jul 9, 2011)

low said:


> Thanks for the pics, there great. But will you post a picture of the S51c and the S51c with difusser???
> Thanks,
> 
> Low


 
Thanks for the comment. Sure. I assume you mean beamshots, right? I'll try to take some comparisons with and without the Prism tonight.


----------



## low (Jul 9, 2011)

edc3 said:


> I assume you mean beamshots, right?



Why yes, how silly of me to not have mentioned beamshots. 

Low


----------



## edc3 (Jul 10, 2011)

Here you go low:

*No diffuser





Diffuser




*


----------



## low (Jul 10, 2011)

edc3 said:


> Here you go low:



Why thank you edc3, by the way the beamshots look it appears that perhaps 1/4 to 1/3 of the output is lost due to diffusing.
Does it look that way in real life?
Thanks,

Low


----------



## edc3 (Jul 10, 2011)

Yes, it's definitely loosing some output. On the Prism, the light has to travel through a plastic lens, bounce off the mirror and exit through the diffuser, no doubt with losses at each point. But it will do until I find a straight through diffuser.


----------



## trickyvic (Jul 13, 2011)

Damn, I really starting to like this light. I wish GG would get them in, right now the only place I can find them is directly through ZL.


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## edc3 (Jul 13, 2011)

I bought mine from Illumination Gear. It was my first order from them, but I was very happy with their service. Got a good price with CPF discount too.


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## trickyvic (Jul 14, 2011)

edc3 said:


> I bought mine from Illumination Gear. It was my first order from them, but I was very happy with their service. Got a good price with CPF discount too.


 
Cool, how do I go about getting the CPF discount?


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## edc3 (Jul 14, 2011)

Here's what I was told: "Just place CPF and your CPF name in comments field of shopping cart". Good luck!


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## damn_hammer (Jul 15, 2011)

trickyvic said:


> Damn, I really starting to like this light. I wish GG would get them in, right now the only place I can find them is directly through ZL.


 
i ordered my sc51c directly from zl, it shipped from texas and got to nc in 3-4 days. not sure why the hesitation to order direct.


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## Diablo_331 (Aug 23, 2011)

This thread is a little old but I thought it was worth bringing back to say that after a few months of research I finally decided on and ordered a HC51c! I also picked up a P-7 suspension clip and a bunch of different Lighthound split rings and Mcgizmo clips in all different sizes.


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## ebow86 (Aug 23, 2011)

I am very close to pulling the trigger on one of these as well. Seems to have a really nice tint, and I like the spacing of the modes and AA format. What I'm curios about is the reliability and durability over the long run. I don't have any experience with zebralights, but the overall build seems to be quite good.


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## Brasso (Aug 23, 2011)

I use the light around the house at night. It's excellent for that purpose. The tint is fantastic. It has a couple of things I don't like. The tailcap is a bit glitchy and it tends to turn on in my pocket. This is why I don't edc it.


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## Diablo_331 (Aug 24, 2011)

Can you please clarify? Is the lockout feature "glitchy" or is it the buttons fault for turning on in your pocket?


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## Brasso (Aug 24, 2011)

If you lock out the tail cap it won't come on. But if you don't, it can. It's done this to me about 3 times before I stopped carrying it. If you don't mind loosening the tail cap, no problem.


----------



## Diablo_331 (Aug 24, 2011)

That's what I thought you meant. Thanks for making it clear. Cheers!


----------



## pjandyho (Aug 24, 2011)

Brasso said:


> If you lock out the tail cap it won't come on. But if you don't, it can. It's done this to me about 3 times before I stopped carrying it. If you don't mind loosening the tail cap, no problem.


 
That was exactly my experience. By the 3rd time it turned on in my pocket I stopped carrying the SC50w+ and sold it away. I like my lights to be at the ready, not always to have to remember to lock and unlock the tail cap. It is just too unwieldy. If I have to lock out every time I keep it, I might as well just throw it in my bag. All I wished is for ZL to make the switch a little more recessed like the SC600 and I will get the SC51c in a heartbeat.


----------



## GaAslamp (Aug 24, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> What I'm curios about is the reliability and durability over the long run. I don't have any experience with zebralights, but the overall build seems to be quite good.



I recently purchased an H51c, and I think its build quality is top notch. The hard anodizing seems very tough, and the fit & finish is great. I'll have to wait and see about long-term reliability, but from what I've seen, I expect it to be very durable. The only thing I wonder about is the switch boot because I'm not sure how I'm supposed to replace it (the same appears to be true of the SC51c). :shrug: Perhaps due to the unibody construction, it is not designed to be replaced, which might be workable since the switch doesn't move much and therefore doesn't put much wear & tear on the rubber.



Brasso said:


> I use the light around the house at night. It's excellent for that purpose. The tint is fantastic.



The tint is good for 4000K, and its spectrum has just the right amount of red relative to blue for accurate color rendering--that's nearly twice as much red as typical neutral white LEDs, but less than most other high-CRI LEDs that make everything look too reddish.



Brasso said:


> It has a couple of things I don't like. The tailcap is a bit glitchy and it tends to turn on in my pocket. This is why I don't edc it.



I heard about this issue, and it was one reason (though hardly the only one) I got an H51c instead. By the way, I EDC my H51c primarily as a hand-held flashlight, and have not had any issues with it turning on in my pocket (I'll make a custom holster for it soon, but it's done well with pocket-carry in any case). Using it in my hand has been just dandy. I have to hold it slightly low so as to not block the beam, but otherwise it's just like pointing a pistol--no harder or more limiting than using any other hand-held flashlight. The fact that it also makes a better headlamp and task light is an added bonus. I think that more people should opt for an H51c for EDC and general use, as opposed to just a headlamp.


----------



## Brasso (Aug 24, 2011)

> I think that more people should opt for an H51c for EDC and general use, as opposed to just a headlamp. Reply Reply With Quote Blog this Post .



If the H version would have been available at the time I made my purchase, I would have done this as well.


----------



## hatman (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm not a big fan of ZL's SC51C.

I bought it thinking I would use AA alkalines with it.

Oddly, mine isn't very bright with alkalines -- not nearly as bright as with an AW 14500.

I tried it for dog walking in the neighborhood and in a park. Not so good.

I went back to my Thrunite 1AA. Ah, now I can see much better.

I wrote Marshall at GG, who said it's designed to work with alkalines, so I really don't know what to think.

It's cute, small and the tint is good, but it's not for me.


----------



## ebow86 (Aug 24, 2011)

hatman said:


> I'm not a big fan of ZL's SC51C.
> 
> I bought it thinking I would use AA alkalines with it.
> 
> ...



Hatman, no matter what Zebralight says, the light isn't going to run ok with alkalines, espically turbo mode. Alkalines can't hold their voltage underload. Considering how inexpensive NIMH batteries and chargers are, I highly recommend you throw the alkalines in the trash and get yourself some eneloops, or atleast some energizer lithiums. What Zebralight _should_ be saying when advertising the SC51's is "Designed to work with alkalines, but for best performance use lithium or NIMH".


----------



## edc3 (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm still carrying my SC51c as my everyday pocket light. I'm running it on Sanyo XX 2500mAh. It's plenty bright for most everyday tasks. I actually use the low and medium more than the high. I carry it when walking, but always carry a more powerful light just in case I need it. I LOVE the tint. It's spoiled me for cool white LEDs.

I've had the light come on in my pocket 3 or 4 times in a couple of months. It's a problem, but not a huge one. I'm too lazy to lock out the tailcap and unlock for use.

@hatman - I don't think it's odd that a light would be brighter on a 3.7v battery than a 1.5v battery. :shrug:

Be careful using 14500 in it since Zebralight sates its Operating Voltage Range at 0.7V - 2.5V. You'll probably damage the LED or the driver at 3.7v. 

I was under the impression that the AA Zebralights were optimized for NiMHs. Their runtime tests usually use Eneloops.


----------



## Diablo_331 (Aug 24, 2011)

edc3 said:


> I'm still carrying my SC51c as my everyday pocket light. I'm running it on Sanyo XX 2500mAh. It's plenty bright for most everyday tasks. I actually use the low and medium more than the high. I carry it when walking, but always carry a more powerful light just in case I need it. I LOVE the tint. It's spoiled me for cool white LEDs.
> 
> I've had the light come on in my pocket 3 or 4 times in a couple of months. It's a problem, but not a huge one. I'm too lazy to lock out the tailcap and unlock for use.
> 
> ...


 
I was under the same impression. Maybe not?

Sent from Colby's Samsung Infuse 4G


----------



## B0wz3r (Aug 24, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> What Zebralight _should_ be saying when advertising the SC51's is "Designed to work with alkalines, but for best performance use lithium or NIMH".


+1!

I only use Duraloops or L91's in my lights, except for the ones that are also specifically designed to also be able to use 14500's. Even then, sometimes 14500's aren't the best cell for my needs. 

Don't *EVER* use alkalines in a high quality light.



edc3 said:


> I'm still carrying my SC51c as my everyday pocket light. I'm running it on Sanyo XX 2500mAh. It's plenty bright for most everyday tasks. I actually use the low and medium more than the high. I carry it when walking, but always carry a more powerful light just in case I need it. I LOVE the tint. It's spoiled me for cool white LEDs.



My EDC light for nearly a year now has been an SC50w+ and nothing has come close to displacing it so far. I'm hoping to get an SC60w or an SC51c at the beginning of next month though, and either of those would take its place.



edc3 said:


> I've had the light come on in my pocket 3 or 4 times in a couple of months. It's a problem, but not a huge one. I'm too lazy to lock out the tailcap and unlock for use.



It's been even less for me. I think maybe five times in the last year. However, I'm almost always in cargo/tactical shorts or khakis with cargo pockets, which aren't as tight as jeans or slacks, so I'm sure that's been a big help with that.



edc3 said:


> @hatman - I don't think it's odd that a light would be brighter on a 3.7v battery than a 1.5v battery. :shrug:



Not at all, that's what higher voltage does for you, supply more power to the emitter in any given period of time.



edc3 said:


> Be careful using 14500 in it since Zebralight sates its Operating Voltage Range at 0.7V - 2.5V. You'll probably damage the LED or the driver at 3.7v.
> 
> I was under the impression that the AA Zebralights were optimized for NiMHs. Their runtime tests usually use Eneloops.


 
This is my understanding as well. Even if you don't  your light, you'll void your warranty by using 14500's in it.


----------



## edc3 (Aug 24, 2011)

B0wz3r said:


> +1!
> 
> I only use Duraloops or L91's in my lights, except for the ones that are also specifically designed to also be able to use 14500's. Even then, sometimes 14500's aren't the best cell for my needs.
> 
> Don't *EVER* use alkalines in a high quality light.



I like the fact that I can use AA alkalines if I have to, but I would *never *run alkalines in my AA lights if I have NiMH or 1.5v lithium available.




Diablo_331 said:


> ...
> 
> Sent from Colby's Samsung Infuse 4G



I want an Infuse. :mecry:


----------



## hatman (Aug 24, 2011)

edc3 said:


> I'm still carrying my SC51c as my everyday pocket light. I'm running it on Sanyo XX 2500mAh. It's plenty bright for most everyday tasks. I actually use the low and medium more than the high. I carry it when walking, but always carry a more powerful light just in case I need it. I LOVE the tint. It's spoiled me for cool white LEDs.
> 
> I've had the light come on in my pocket 3 or 4 times in a couple of months. It's a problem, but not a huge one. I'm too lazy to lock out the tailcap and unlock for use.
> 
> ...


 
I use lithium rechargeables in all the lights in my signature.

I don't use Eneloops; they would be even less bright, yes?


----------



## GaAslamp (Aug 24, 2011)

hatman said:


> I'm not a big fan of ZL's SC51C.
> 
> I bought it thinking I would use AA alkalines with it.
> 
> Oddly, mine isn't very bright with alkalines -- not nearly as bright as with an AW 14500.



Alkalines can only deliver so much current for a very short period of time, which is why ZebraLight uses Eneloops for their output and runtime figures (and they don't hide the fact). Maybe you should, too.



hatman said:


> I tried it for dog walking in the neighborhood and in a park. Not so good.
> 
> I went back to my Thrunite 1AA. Ah, now I can see much better.



Let's be fair here. :tsk: You're comparing a flashlight that is optimized for more accurate color rendering against another that is optimized for maximum output. If you instead compared the regular SC51 with the ThruNite 1AA (using Eneloops), then you wouldn't notice much of a difference (in total output, beam patterns aside), if any, even though the 1AA uses an XM-L emitter.



hatman said:


> I wrote Marshall at GG, who said it's designed to work with alkalines, so I really don't know what to think.



It is indeed designed to work very well with alkalines, and in my experience it makes the most out of the limited capabilities of this battery chemistry. But nobody at ZebraLight or in this thread ever claimed that it could achieve its advertised performance (based on Eneloops) using alkaline cells--that was your interpretation of a statement made by a retailer, who technically did not say anything incorrect.



hatman said:


> It's cute, small and the tint is good, but it's not for me.



That's fine, and there are plenty of people for whom it's a great fit, although it should be noted that virtually all of them use Eneloops or Energizer Ultimate Lithiums rather than alkalines.



ebow86 said:


> Hatman, no matter what Zebralight says, the light isn't going to run ok with alkalines, espically turbo mode. Alkalines can't hold their voltage underload.



I don't think that ZebraLight has ever made such a claim, anyway.



B0wz3r said:


> Don't *EVER* use alkalines in a high quality light.



I've done so, but only out of curiosity and under limited, controlled conditions. I wouldn't want an alkaline cell to leak and ruin my flashlight!


----------



## ebow86 (Aug 24, 2011)

"I don't think that ZebraLight has ever made such a claim, anyway." 


If you would have taken the time to read through the thread before posting you would have seen that Zebralight has advertised this light as being "optimized for *alkaline* and Nimh". If it isn't in this thread then I know it's in one of the zebralight sc threads, marshall from goingear mentions it more than a few times on youtube


----------



## Diablo_331 (Aug 24, 2011)

edc3 said:


> I want an Infuse. :mecry:


 
Save yourself the trouble. Crashes too often.

Sent from Colby's Samsung Infuse 4G


----------



## GaAslamp (Aug 24, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> "I don't think that ZebraLight has ever made such a claim, anyway."
> 
> If you would have taken the time to read through the thread before posting you would have seen that Zebralight has advertised this light as being "optimized for *alkaline* and Nimh". If it isn't in this thread then I know it's in one of the zebralight sc threads,



Well, the flashlight IS optimized for alkaline and NiMH (and lithium primaries) and the narrow voltage range that they occupy, in that it makes the most out of what each chemistry has to offer. The fact that the alkaline chemistry has so little to offer in comparison to the others is not their problem. Have they ever actually claimed that the flashlight can deliver the same performance with alkaline cells as with other types? If so, then SHAME on them, but if not (I haven't seen it) then it's just a rather tremendous leap of wishful thinking taken by those who either know little about battery chemistry or believe in miracles. 



ebow86 said:


> marshall from goingear mentions it more than a few times on youtube



Does he actually say that alkaline cells work just as well as NiMH cells? If so, then he's wrong and is misrepresenting the product. And if not, well, SOMEBODY is misinterpreting something somewhere because I haven't seen any such claims from the manufacturer.


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## GaAslamp (Aug 24, 2011)

ebow86 said:


> marshall from goingear mentions it more than a few times on youtube



Alright, so I watched several SC51-related videos on Going Gear's YouTube channel, and found the following that were relevant (there may well be more):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtLm9Xn64e8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8IbX0tvQLg

In these two videos at least, he primarily emphasizes that performance will be worse with lithium-ions since the flashlight is not optimized for them. That's actually mostly true in comparison to Eneloops (although performance is still good), except for the highest mode, where a 14500 cell offers 39% greater brightness for about the same run time.

The problem is that he keeps mentioning alkalines and rechargeables (NiMH) in the same breath with no distinction made between them, which implies, whether deliberately or otherwise, that their performance is similar, when obviously that is NOT true. So he did not explicitly make a false claim, but implicitly made one while talking about something different (but related).

While this does not contradict what I said about ZebraLight, the manufacturer, having never made such a claim (to my knowledge), it is an example of a retailer spreading misinformation about a product they are selling. :shakehead I'm going to give Going Gear the benefit of the doubt and assume that this was not deliberate, but it is misleading and should be clarified.

hatman, if this is what you went by (or any other direct communications with Going Gear), then I'm afraid that you were misled by the retailer.  My point was that the SC51 series delivers what the manufacturer claims, based on my own experience (with the H51 series, but it uses the same circuitry), but it requires Eneloops (or equivalent) or lithium primaries to reach its potential. You could also use Li-ion 14500 cells, as you've already tried, which contrary to Going Gear's claims work quite well, although ZebraLight currently "washes their hands" of this practice due to their concerns about the safety of the cells on the market.


----------



## Lite_me (Aug 24, 2011)

hatman said:


> I use lithium rechargeables in all the lights in my signature.
> 
> *I don't use Eneloops; they would be even less bright, yes?*


No! It will be brighter on Eneloops. The driver is tweaked for them. It may work on 3.7v Li-ion but it is not designed to do so and they are not supported. It could damage the driver. Use at your own risk.


----------



## GaAslamp (Aug 25, 2011)

Lite_me said:


> No! It will be brighter on Eneloops. The driver is tweaked for them.



That's not true for the H1 mode (the highest) of the SC51, at least according to these tests:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...XP-E-Neutral)-1xAA-Reviews-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS

The 14500 Li-ion makes the SC51 (R4 edition) 39% brighter on H1! oo: Now, with the SC51*c* I couldn't say for sure, but it seems bright enough according to hatman when he tried this combination:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-CRI-Release&p=3727479&viewfull=1#post3727479

Eneloops are at least as bright and last longer on every other mode, however. So whether 14500 support would be worthwhile hinges entirely on the importance of extra brightness (and about equal run time) on H1.



Lite_me said:


> It may work on 3.7v Li-ion but it is not designed to do so and they are not supported. It could damage the driver. Use at your own risk.



That's good advice in general, and I'd follow it myself just to be safe, although it may actually work in practice, based on some statements coming directly from ZebraLight:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-mean-better&p=3636577&viewfull=1#post3636577
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-mean-better&p=3636714&viewfull=1#post3636714
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-mean-better&p=3637190&viewfull=1#post3637190

That said, regarding the SC51*c* specifically, I'd be concerned about the fact that the Rebel emitter it uses can only take less than half the maximum current of the XP-G that is used in the other two models. Because the 14500 is not officially supported, there may not be sufficient protection for the emitter. ZebraLight does not appear overly concerned about this in the posts referenced above, but if I were going to use 14500 cells in the SC51c, then I'd contact ZebraLight directly regarding these concerns.

In my opinion, it's just easier and safer to stick with Eneloops.  I could be wrong, but I doubt that the "c" model would be any brighter with 14500 cells because it already appears to be maxed out on H1 on Eneloops as it is. Why ZebraLight went with the high-CRI Rebel instead of its higher-output Rebel ES counterpart (same color temperature and spectrum) is still a bit of a mystery, although they probably had their reasons.


----------



## edc3 (Aug 25, 2011)

GaAslamp said:


> That's not true for the H1 mode (the highest) of the SC51, at least according to these tests:



I think Lite_me meant brighter than alkaline.



> ...Why ZebraLight went with the high-CRI Rebel instead of its higher-output Rebel ES counterpart (same color temperature and spectrum) is still a bit of a mystery, although they probably had their reasons.


Interesting. Have to do some reading about that LED.


----------



## hatman (Aug 26, 2011)

GaAslamp said:


> That's not true for the H1 mode (the highest) of the SC51, at least according to these tests:
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...XP-E-Neutral)-1xAA-Reviews-RUNTIMES-BEAMSHOTS
> 
> ...


 
Note that ZL's answer is that the company is concerned about lithium ion cells in general -- NOT just for use in the 51c series.


That is the main reason I decided to try a 14500 after my disappointing results with alkaline.


As I mentioned, I use lithium ions in all my lights. It doesn't make sense to get Eneloops and a new charger just to accommodate one light.


If you enjoy the 51C, that's fine. But I bring this up so that perhaps the next person can make a more informed decision than I did. For me, the value of this light's excellent tint is overshadowed by its relatively weak output.


----------



## GaAslamp (Aug 26, 2011)

edc3 said:


> I think Lite_me meant brighter than alkaline.



Perhaps that was the intended comparison, and it would be true, but hatman was talking about Li-ions in the sentences quoted by Lite_me, so that was the basis of comparison that I did.



edc3 said:


> Interesting. Have to do some reading about that LED.



If you mean the high-CRI Rebel ES, it offers about 33% greater efficiency and about 50% greater maximum output in comparison to the standard Rebel (like comparing the XP-G to the XR-E). Maybe they just weren't available due to the requested volume being too high or low.



hatman said:


> Note that ZL's answer is that the company is concerned about lithium ion cells in general -- NOT just for use in the 51c series.



Right, but that doesn't necessarily mean that 14500 cells won't work despite the lack of official support. ZebraLight seems to imply that the circuit-level support that had been designed into the SC51's predecessors is still there, just ignored.



hatman said:


> That is the main reason I decided to try a 14500 after my disappointing results with alkaline.



Out of curiosity was the SC51c bright enough for you when using a 14500? It may be just as bright with Eneloops (even though the regular SC51 is not on H1).



hatman said:


> As I mentioned, I use lithium ions in all my lights. It doesn't make sense to get Eneloops and a new charger just to accommodate one light.



Understood, it's not the right flashlight for you, for a variety of reasons.



hatman said:


> If you enjoy the 51C, that's fine. But I bring this up so that perhaps the next person can make a more informed decision than I did. For me, the value of this light's excellent tint is overshadowed by its relatively weak output.



And what I'm doing is further informing people that its output is not nearly as weak when running on an Eneloop (or a lithium primary cell) as opposed to an alkaline cell. That doesn't help you one bit, unfortunately, but it may help others.


----------



## hatman (Aug 26, 2011)

GaAslamp said:


> Perhaps that was the intended comparison, and it would be true, but hatman was talking about Li-ions in the sentences quoted by Lite_me, so that was the basis of comparison that I did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's not bright enough with a lithium ion, either.


----------



## GaAslamp (Aug 26, 2011)

hatman said:


> It's not bright enough with a lithium ion, either.



Then it *probably* wouldn't be bright enough for you with an Eneloop, either, even if that were a viable option for you.  So we know that 130 lumens is not bright enough for you, much less whatever you managed to get out of using an alkaline cell, and more generally that people who are looking at the SC51 series should keep in mind that the SC51c gives up 42 lumens to the SC51w and 70 lumens to the SC51 on their highest-output modes (as the published specs indicate). I'm sorry you had to find out the hard way. It still outputs more lumens than most 1xAA flashlights, though, with the notable exceptions of the other SC51 flashlights and the ThruNite Neutron. By the way, my point all along has not been to contradict you (if it's not bright enough for you, then it's not bright enough for you), but to put things into perspective in order to be fair to all.


----------



## Diablo_331 (Aug 26, 2011)

Deleted


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## hatman (Aug 26, 2011)

Thank you.

My point, all along, has not been to get into it with the fans of this light, but to let potential buyers know that this model is aimed at those who want a certain tint at the expense of light output, which may be less than they think.


----------



## Brasso (Aug 26, 2011)

Fair enough. Most people who prefer the light for it's tint are past the point of chasing meaningless lumens anyway.


----------



## kaichu dento (Aug 26, 2011)

hatman said:


> For me, the value of this light's excellent tint is overshadowed by its relatively weak output.





Brasso said:


> Most people who prefer the light for it's tint are past the point of chasing meaningless lumens anyway.


 I can voice support for both of these opinions and see it as a personal choice. Brasso pretty well summed up my feelings on the issue, while at the same time I like to know if a light is going to be weak enough to be unusable. Still think I'll find myself with an SC51c before too long...


----------



## low (Aug 27, 2011)

Well, the way I see it is that you only lose on H1. Which I very seldom use.


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## B0wz3r (Aug 27, 2011)

kaichu dento said:


> I can voice support for both of these opinions and see it as a personal choice. Brasso pretty well summed up my feelings on the issue, while at the same time I like to know if a light is going to be weak enough to be unusable. Still think I'll find myself with an SC51c before too long...


 
+1. I'm planning on getting an SC51c as a new EDC to replace my SC50w+. The C will actually be brighter on H1 than my w+, which is already plenty of light for 90% of my EDC needs.

Tint and beam profile are far more important IMO, than absolute brightness. Sure, it's fun to pull out a small(-ish) light and blow people's minds with how bright it is, but for pure practicality, brighter is NOT always better.


----------



## hatman (Aug 27, 2011)

B0wz3r;3729704Tint and beam profile are far more important IMO said:


> My exact thoughts when I bought my SC51C.
> And if it had a more powerful beam, I wouldn't be exchanging it.
> 
> I'm looking at perhaps an SC51W or SC31W. Or I may just hold off for an SC600W, whenever that comes out.
> ...


----------



## ebow86 (Aug 27, 2011)

Tint and color rendition beats shear output any day in my opinion .


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## Diablo_331 (Aug 27, 2011)

I got to use my SC51c from dusk until dawn last night. The beam and tint are perfect for my use, a small edc light, mainly for use within 10 meters or so. Both reds and blues seem to stand out more than any other led that I have yet seen. That was a must for me as I check hydraulic fluid levels often and this may make it easier on the eyes. I used it outside on trees, mailboxes, cars, and the like when I went on a midnight walk. I may end up using this more on the job and report back.


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## Brasso (Aug 27, 2011)

I can't really see where someone really needs more output than this light can provide in a single AA form. It is what it is. An edc pocket light. Personally, I've found that for daily edc, 60-80 lumens at max is all I need, and usually more than I need.


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## Diablo_331 (Aug 27, 2011)

I agree. It's dark outside again so I've been messing with it some more and I'm really liking the medium high for most things out to a few meters and beyond. I like the simple UI. Short click for high. Hold for low. Click twice for medium. I only wish the clip had a crossbar up toward the top to be more functional when used with a clip. Anyone know of any other clips available for the sc51 series?


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## GaAslamp (Aug 28, 2011)

Diablo_331 said:


> I got to use my SC51c from dusk until dawn last night. The beam and tint are perfect for my use, a small edc light, mainly for use within 10 meters or so. Both reds and blues seem to stand out more than any other led that I have yet seen. That was a must for me as I check hydraulic fluid levels often and this may make it easier on the eyes.



What I like the most about its emitter (Luxeon Rebel LXM3-PW51) is that it has such a natural balance between colors. There is a bit too much spectral yellow overall, which brings its CCT down to 4000K, but otherwise it renders colors very much like sunlight. :thumbsup: In comparison to lower-CRI neutral white LEDs it has significantly greater red output--just slightly greater proportionally than sunlight, as can be seen in the photos in the following posts (skip the commentary if you prefer--sunlight is always first and the H51c/SC51c is always last):

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...igh-CRI-quot&p=3723336&viewfull=1#post3723336
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...With-Filters&p=3727509&viewfull=1#post3727509

For further comparison, most other high-CRI neutral white LEDs used in other flashlights have even greater red output. While this can make colors "pop" even more and appear more pleasing in the view of some, in my opinion it makes them less accurate (using sunlight as an ideal reference), despite their often higher CRIs (CRI does not tell the whole story with regard to accuracy--color balance is just as important, if not more so).



Diablo_331 said:


> I used it outside on trees, mailboxes, cars, and the like when I went on a midnight walk. I may end up using this more on the job and report back.



Please do, if you get a chance. In addition to its exceptionally high degree of color rendering accuracy, to my eyes the emitter of this flashlight "punches above its weight" with regard to perceived brightness (i.e. looks brighter than expected) under dark conditions outside and at a given output level. I have a theory involving scotopic and mesopic vision and high CRI (regarding LEDs specifically) that would seem to explain my observations, but it would be nice to find out if others have noticed the same effect (especially since we all see a bit differently).


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## GaAslamp (Aug 28, 2011)

JA(me)S said:


> 130, 80, 29, 14 and 2.8 Lumen output levels are current regulated. 63 and 0.3 Lumen output levels are PWM generated.


(quoted from ZebraLight's website)

What's interesting is that I can visually detect PWM on the 14 lumen mode, but NOT the 0.3 lumen mode. I'm not complaining because the PWM is unnoticeable except when I'm waving the flashlight in front of my face (slightly averted) or illuminating moving fan blades, but I'm not convinced that the advertised specs are accurate in this regard. :thinking: Has anybody else made the same observations?



JA(me)S said:


> Note: the SC51w is at 172 Lm on H1 with a 4200k XP-G *Typical CRI 75*.:shrug:



CRI doesn't tell us much--it's the emission spectrum (relative power distribution according to wavelength) that really matters.

Here is the spectrum of a typical 75 CRI XP-G emitter (neutral white is the green curve):






And here is the spectrum of the emitter used in the SC51c/H51c:





See how all phosphor-based white LEDs have a deficiency in spectral cyan at around 475-500 nm? In this case, the 85 CRI Rebel has about twice the output at these wavelengths (which happen to closely correspond to the peak sensitivity of human scotopic or rod-based night vision, by the way). This is probably where most of the increase in CRI is achieved, but it's also probably not nearly as important for color rendering accuracy as the balance between blue and red. If you look at the area of the graph around 650-700 nm (orange-red to deep red), the Rebel has a lot more red, which significantly changes how it renders colors. From my personal observations, its overall balance between blue and red is very similar to that of sunlight (see the examples referenced in my last post), while that of neutral white XP-Gs is short on red, throwing off the balance between blue and red as well as green and red, making many colors look too bluish or greenish (albeit not nearly as much as typical cool white LEDs do).



calipsoii said:


> First, hats off to Zebralight for investigating emitters with a higher CRI. As someone who basically doesn't buy cool white lights anymore, I'm always happy to see more warm offerings. :thumbsup:
> 
> That said, I don't think they should call this a "High CRI" light. 85CRI is not high.



It is high for 4000K LEDs, and CRI does not truly quantify color rendering anyway because the ideal reference it uses is a moving target, changing according to the CCT. The reason it is easier (and therefore more common) for 3000K LEDs, for example, to have high CRIs is that the significant deficiency in spectral cyan that all phosphor-based white LEDs have to a greater or lesser degree carries less weight at lower CCTs. In other words, from the point of view of those who use sunlight as their ideal reference for natural color rendering, the CRIs of warm white LEDs are being measured against an easier and inherently less accurate standard. This means that generally speaking (remember, it's the spectrum that ultimately matters, not CRI), having a high CRI means less in the case of warm white LEDs.



calipsoii said:


> It's slightly better than average, but not to the point where you're going to take one look and say "Oh wow, it's just like an incandescent!".



The SC51c's LED is not like an incandescent light bulb at all, but it is more like sunlight, and significantly more accurate in its color balance than other neutral white LEDs I've used or seen, *regardless of CRI*. That's right, most other neutral white LEDs (and all of the ones currently used in flashlights) that have *higher* CRIs tend to substantially overemphasize red and/or orange in comparison to sunlight. Their CRIs are higher because they do slightly better in the spectral cyan range of the spectrum, which is less important for color rendering, and because their spectral curves more closely resemble that of an ideal 4000K incandescent source overall. What the SC51c's LED does at the same CCT, however, is render colors more like sunlight does at about 5800K, only with a mild yellowish tint that betrays its 4000K CCT. While it is not perfect, in my opinion it comes the closest to the color rendering of sunlight, even at only 85 CRI (because CRI--a single number--doesn't tell us much).

And by the way, I took one look and said "Oh wow, that's how colors are supposed to look!" oo:



calipsoii said:


> If anything, the 4000k color temperature will leave more of an impression than the CRI rating.



Yes, the 4000K CCT makes more of a difference than just CRI, but its *color balance* makes a greater visible difference than either. Its higher-than-average CRI of 85 is coincidental and makes some sense when analyzed in detail, but doesn't tell us a whole lot.



calipsoii said:


> Neutral Rebel emitters have such a nice creaminess to them.



Not only that, while the normal-CRI (70-75) neutral white Rebels are still deficient in the red range, they have a better overall color balance than neutral white XP-Gs. The reason the XP-Gs score at least as high in CRI, however, is that their spectral cyan deficit is less pronounced. This is yet another example where CRI (even at the same CCT in this case) doesn't necessarily tell us which LED has superior color rendering.


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## thaugen (Aug 28, 2011)

How do the Philips LUXEON Rebel LED's compare to the Cree XP-G for efficiency and long term endurance? I love my H51fw with the Cree XP-G Neutral White LED, but don't know anything about the Luxeon...


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## GaAslamp (Aug 28, 2011)

thaugen said:


> How do the Philips LUXEON Rebel LED's compare to the Cree XP-G for efficiency



The Rebel is more comparable to the XP-E due to its smaller die size. Its highest flux bin (cool white) measured at 350 mA lies between Q2 and Q3 using Cree terminology. However, because of the Rebel's significantly lower forward voltage (per current), it's actually a lot more efficient than that in terms of electrical power--more efficient at lower brightness levels than even the top XP-G flux bins. oo: Where the Rebel falls a bit short is at higher brightness levels because its efficiency drops off more quickly and its maximum forward current is only 700 mA in comparison to the XP-E's 1000 mA.

By the way, the Rebel ES with its larger die is more comparable to the XP-G. Without going into great detail (unless you want me to ), it shares similar advantages and disadvantages as the Rebel vis-à-vis the XP-E. For some reason ZebraLight decided to go with the high-CRI Rebel instead of the analogous Rebel ES, and the maximum output of the SC51c/H51c suffers as a result. They must have had their reasons, but in any case the flashlight's efficiency is still very high on the medium and low modes (and would be much higher still with a cool white version, easily beating even the cool white XP-G R5 in efficiency on those modes).



thaugen said:


> and long term endurance?



The Rebel is rated identically to its closest Cree counterpart, the XP-E--70% lumen maintenance at 50,000 hours and a 700 mA drive current.



thaugen said:


> I love my H51fw with the Cree XP-G Neutral White LED, but don't know anything about the Luxeon...



The Rebel and Rebel ES are good LEDs. While they don't have the top-end performance of their Cree competitors, they handily beat them in actual power efficiency at lower (but quite useful) brightness levels. For small high-end flashlights competing in terms of maximum brightness for size, Cree's offerings are obviously heavily favored, but Rebels are ubiquitous just about everywhere else, from high-output (relatively speaking) mass-market flashlights to special-purpose flashlights of all kinds, including the SC51c/H51c (high-CRI Rebel model), of course. For some reason they seem to generally have a bit more red and less green in their spectra as well (at normal CRIs), which for most people means that they're more likely to have nicer tints and slightly better color rendering at higher CCTs (note that this costs the Rebel some efficiency and brightness, as generating red involves greater energy loss than generating green, and green makes for higher brightness in addition--since Cree is usually shooting for absolute maximum brightness per die size, it's no wonder that their LEDs are more frequently green-tinted ).


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## B0wz3r (Aug 29, 2011)

GaAslamp knows what he's talking about guys... trust him. We had a long discussion about this in another thread, and he knows his stuff. We're on the same page with this stuff, just that he's the physicist, and I'm the psychophysicist!


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## thaugen (Aug 29, 2011)

Thank you GaAslamp for your thoughtful, thourough and very helpful reply...you really know your stuff! 

Now I need to decide between the Zebralight SC51c, SC51w or the new Eagletac D25A mini or D25C mini (neutral) for my pocket EDC...decisions, decisions, decisions...


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## Harry999 (Aug 29, 2011)

GaAslamp,

I too thank you for that detailed explanation above as well as the one in the HDS thread. I agree with you that the Zebralight 'c' models are all pleasant to use and do seem to punch above their weight in perceived brightness.


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## kaichu dento (Aug 29, 2011)

B0wz3r said:


> +1. I'm planning on getting an SC51c as a new EDC to replace my SC50w+. The C will actually be brighter on H1 than my w+, which is already plenty of light for 90% of my EDC needs.
> 
> Tint and beam profile are far more important IMO, than absolute brightness. Sure, it's fun to pull out a small(-ish) light and blow people's minds with how bright it is, but for pure practicality, brighter is NOT always better.


I've been getting plenty of brightness out of all my lights and like you, I focus my needs based more upon tint, beam pattern, and most definitely, UI, than I do on maximum output capability.


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## Bass (Aug 29, 2011)

GaAslamp said:


> Rebel falls a bit short is at higher brightness levels because its efficiency drops off more quickly and its maximum forward current is only 700 mA


 
I must have miss-read the data sheet. I thought max forward current was 1000 mA but the Rebels were _binned _at 700 mA. Could you point me to the correct part of the data sheet? Thanks!


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## B0wz3r (Aug 29, 2011)

Bass said:


> I must have miss-read the data sheet. I thought max forward current was 1000 mA but the Rebels were _binned _at 700 mA. Could you point me to the correct part of the data sheet? Thanks!


 
This could mean that ZL is overdriving them a bit? Especially considering the reports they seem brighter than their spec?


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## B0wz3r (Aug 29, 2011)

Bass said:


> I must have miss-read the data sheet. I thought max forward current was 1000 mA but the Rebels were _binned _at 700 mA. Could you point me to the correct part of the data sheet? Thanks!


 
This could mean that ZL is overdriving them a bit? Especially considering the reports they seem brighter than their spec?


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## GaAslamp (Aug 30, 2011)

Bass said:


> I must have miss-read the data sheet. I thought max forward current was 1000 mA but the Rebels were _binned _at 700 mA. Could you point me to the correct part of the data sheet? Thanks!



Thanks for catching that! It turns out that there are two data sheets (I forgot ) that apparently describe two different types of Rebels (non-ES). The one that I was using, DS63.pdf, is for the "Illumination Portfolio" series, while the other, DS64.pdf, is for the "General Purpose White Portfolio" series. The maximum forward current of the former is 700 mA, with a footnote saying that it can sustain 1000 mA for up to 60 seconds (Table 5 on page 8), while the maximum forward current of the latter is 1000 mA (Table 5 on page 7), so I guess we're both partly right depending on which Rebels we're talking about. However, they are all binned at 350 mA, while the Rebel ES is binned at 700 mA (see DS61.pdf, page 3).

With these corrections/additions noted, what I said earlier in comparing Rebel LEDs to Cree LEDs still applies. The General Purpose White Portfolio Rebels are slightly more extreme, actually, being even more efficient at lower output (with both slightly higher flux and slightly lower forward voltage per current) and less efficient at high outputs.

The LXM3-PW51 LED used in the SC51c/H51c belongs to the Illumination Portfolio series (which seems to be more focused on lighting quality), so its maximum forward current (sustainable for greater than 60 seconds) is 700 mA. Due to its high CRI, its minimum luminous flux at 350 mA is only 75 lumens (85 lumens typically), which according to the more familiar (to most of us) Cree binning system is approximately equivalent to P3 (although it gets a lot better in power efficiency at lower drive currents, as mentioned previously). Rebels can do significantly better in terms of output, but this one is not designed for maximum output, of course.



B0wz3r said:


> This could mean that ZL is overdriving them a bit?



According to the graphs in the data sheet, the LXM3-PW51's maximum sustainable output (at 700 mA) is typically 147 lumens at the emitter. The question is whether 130 OTF lumens can be achieved with 147 emitter lumens. Given the quality of the materials used in the SC51c/H51c's optics, theoretically it is achievable, as there is nearly negligible loss from the flat glass and the reflectance of aluminum can be near 90%.



B0wz3r said:


> Especially considering the reports they seem brighter than their spec?



At least to me, H1 doesn't seem brighter than 130 lumens in a comparative indoor ceiling-bounce test. Where it seems brighter than it should be is outside in dark conditions and after my eyes have had some time to become at least somewhat dark-adapted. I use mesopic vision all the time in amateur astronomy, so it's got me wondering whether this has anything to do with the phenomenon I'm seeing, given the SC51c/H51c's increased output at wavelengths near the peak sensitivity of the rhodopsin used in our rod-type photoreceptors.


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## B0wz3r (Aug 30, 2011)

GaAslamp said:


> I use mesopic vision all the time in amateur astronomy, so it's got me wondering whether this has anything to do with the phenomenon I'm seeing, given the SC51c/H51c's increased output at wavelengths near the peak sensitivity of the rhodopsin used in our rod-type photoreceptors.


 
Sounds like the best explanation to me. My wife and son are really into amateur astronomy, and she has gotten quite good at finding deep sky objects without any computerized assistance. We've got a 10" (or 12", I can't remember which) dobsonian reflector and some good eyepieces, and in a good location can find stuff down to about a 12 magnitude. I try to keep at the mesopic level myself, otherwise I cant read, write, see charts, stuff like that. That's why I've been advocating the use of the green lights; I've found they work much better for me than the red ones do for that.

I'm jonesing bad now for a 51c...


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## GaAslamp (Aug 30, 2011)

B0wz3r said:


> My wife and son are really into amateur astronomy, and she has gotten quite good at finding deep sky objects without any computerized assistance.



It's always heartening to hear about fellow star-hoppers who aren't completely dependent on computerization. :thumbsup:

I'll send you a PM about the astronomy stuff so that we don't go completely off-topic. 



B0wz3r said:


> I'm jonesing bad now for a 51c...



For those who desire a flashlight that renders the vast majority of colors more like midday sunlight under a clear blue sky than any other current flashlight that I know of, the 51c would be it (you might also want to look at the newer Nichia 083b-based versions of the McGizmo SunDrop--it's probably superior but I can't vouch for it due to my lack of personal experience with it). By the way, I'm still experimenting but the 51c's color rendering can possibly be improved with a Lee #053 Paler Lavender or Lee #503 Quarter New Colour Blue filter, which removes the excess yellow and orange in its spectrum. While a similar result could theoretically be achieved by using the appropriate filter with any other LED, the effect on brightness would be far more devastating.

On the other hand, those who desire a flashlight that will make colors noticeably "pop" would probably be better off with a high-CRI warm white or a really high-CRI (>90) neutral white flashlight because of their higher ratios of red to blue and green. There is no magic involved in any of this--for most people, more red means more "pop" (but not more accuracy if sunlight color rendering is your goal). The 51c may disappoint if you're looking for something vastly different from ordinary neutral white flashlights, as many of those render colors fairly well already, relative to sunlight, and the 51c's improvements can often be subtle.

That said, the improvements are still noticeable and can be appreciated by some--I've sold all of my other neutral white flashlights, but carry my H51c around at all times. In fact, I have now taken to loading it with an Eneloop instead of the customary lithium primary (that I usually use for EDC purposes) because I keep wanting to use this flashlight for everything around the house--my other flashlights are being cruelly neglected! :tsk:

The bottom line is that some people will wonder what the big deal is about and regret their purchase, while others will love it and wonder where it's been all their lives--that's just how people are.  Hopefully I've been able to take detailed descriptions of color rendering to a whole new level, though--that's the best I can do. :shrug:


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## kaichu dento (Aug 31, 2011)

GaAslamp said:


> For those who desire a flashlight that renders the vast majority of colors more like midday sunlight under a clear blue sky than any other current flashlight that I know of, the 51c would be it (you might also want to look at the newer Nichia 083b-based versions of the McGizmo SunDrop--it's probably superior but I can't vouch for it due to my lack of personal experience with it). By the way, I'm still experimenting but the 51c's color rendering can possibly be improved with a Lee #053 Paler Lavender or Lee #503 Quarter New Colour Blue filter, which removes the excess yellow and orange in its spectrum. While a similar result could theoretically be achieved by using the appropriate filter with any other LED, the effect on brightness would be far more devastating.
> 
> The bottom line is that some people will wonder what the big deal is about and regret their purchase, while others will love it and wonder where it's been all their lives--that's just how people are.  Hopefully I've been able to take detailed descriptions of color rendering to a whole new level, though--that's the best I can do. :shrug:


That'll be cool to hear how the filters do for customizing it to your needs - think you'll start a thread with beamshots? 

As far as the bottom line part, isn't that just how it goes? Some people get all excited over the newest brand of ketchup while others are shrugging their shoulders at a space shuttle reaching Alpha Centauri.


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## B0wz3r (Aug 31, 2011)

GaAslamp said:


> Hopefully I've been able to take detailed descriptions of color rendering to a whole new level, though--that's the best I can do. :shrug:


 
Indeed you have.  Very informative and useful.

Now if only we could find a talented industrial designer, to go with our physics and vision science knowledge and expertise, and someone who wouldn't mind putting up the backing to start our own flashlight company, I'd bet we could come up with some pretty cool stuff!


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## scout24 (Aug 31, 2011)

Lots of very good, detailed info in this thread! I'm a huge fan of the scXXw's, but the sc51c is beginning to grow on me... Not too long ago, 130lm was looked upon as magic, and certainly not at this high CR-I level... 130 is still 130, lots are brighter, but that's not always the answer. I think this was marketed at those who know exactly what they're buying...


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## Harry999 (Sep 1, 2011)

scout24 said:


> Lots of very good, detailed info in this thread! I'm a huge fan of the scXXw's, but the sc51c is beginning to grow on me... Not too long ago, 130lm was looked upon as magic, and certainly not at this high CR-I level... 130 is still 130, lots are brighter, but that's not always the answer. I think this was marketed at those who know exactly what they're buying...


 
+1


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## Glock27 (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm still hoping for an SC60c High CRI Release.

G27


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## EV_007 (Sep 5, 2011)

Warm is good. High CRI is better. 

Someone should make a High CRI sticky listing the various makes and models or a sub group dedicated to the High CRI lights in the LED section? 

I can see it now... "High CRI lights, bridging the gap between the incan and LEDs. Best of both worlds."


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## flatline (Sep 6, 2011)

EV_007 said:


> Warm is good. High CRI is better.
> 
> Someone should make a High CRI sticky listing the various makes and models or a sub group dedicated to the High CRI lights in the LED section?
> 
> I can see it now... "High CRI lights, bridging the gap between the incan and LEDs. Best of both worlds."


 
Personally, I'd love to see a high CRI LED sub-forum. that way folks who don't care, wouldn't get involved in the threads.

--flatline


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## liquidsix (Sep 12, 2011)

flatline said:


> Personally, I'd love to see a high CRI LED sub-forum. that way folks who don't care, wouldn't get involved in the threads.
> 
> --flatline



+1

High CRI LED topic threads should diverge from the general LED topic threads forum the way LED and Incandescent topic threads diverged into their own sub forums oh so long ago (before I joined CPF anyways).

Apologies for continuing to be off topic. We were talking about the SC51c ...


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## applevision (Sep 18, 2011)

This is an amazing thread! I learned a lot and am just about ready to pull trigger on either the SC51c or the H51c... or both. My only hesitation: maybe the XPG or XML high CRI will be out soon and then these will be upgraded to that? Does anybody know if that is in the works anytime soon? If so, it could help balance the only slight negative with this emitter: slightly lower output. Still, I know that the relative output would be lower than the non-high CRI version of the same emitter, but the absolute output might be closer to 180+ lumens... But if these are far away, then I might just do it!


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## Diablo_331 (Sep 19, 2011)

I would be highly disappointed if ZL were to change the led in the sc51c. It's fine the way it is for my uses. I don't find that I need anymore light and the beam is just right.


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## hazna (Sep 19, 2011)

applevision said:


> This is an amazing thread! I learned a lot and am just about ready to pull trigger on either the SC51c or the H51c... or both. My only hesitation: maybe the XPG or XML high CRI will be out soon and then these will be upgraded to that? Does anybody know if that is in the works anytime soon? If so, it could help balance the only slight negative with this emitter: slightly lower output. Still, I know that the relative output would be lower than the non-high CRI version of the same emitter, but the absolute output might be closer to 180+ lumens... But if these are far away, then I might just do it!



High CRI xpg's are around, however I believe zebralight chose not to go with the xpg, as the colour temperature was too warm.


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## applevision (Sep 19, 2011)

Diablo_331 said:


> I would be highly disappointed if ZL were to change the led in the sc51c. It's fine the way it is for my uses. I don't find that I need anymore light and the beam is just right.


 


hazna said:


> High CRI xpg's are around, however I believe zebralight chose not to go with the xpg, as the colour temperature was too warm.



Thanks, guys. VERY helpful. I am getting one today! 
Update: just ordered the H51c (same emitter just in the headlamp format which I adore) from goinggear--there is a great CPF discount. Whoo hoo!


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## B0wz3r (Sep 19, 2011)

hazna said:


> High CRI xpg's are around, however I believe zebralight chose not to go with the xpg, as the colour temperature was too warm.


 
That's my understanding as well. The power spectrum of the Rebel in the SC51c is more even than that of the XPG high CRI emitters.


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## Diablo_331 (Sep 19, 2011)

applevision said:


> Thanks, guys. VERY helpful. I am getting one today!
> Update: just ordered the H51c (same emitter just in the headlamp format which I adore) from goinggear--there is a great CPF discount. Whoo hoo!



The more I think about it, the more I regret not getting the h51c. The ZL mod thread has so many inovative ways to use the h51.


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## miyagi (Sep 19, 2011)

Sorry to chime in... in an ackward fashion... I am debating if h51c or h51fc would work better for baby's diaper change in the middle of the night. I am leaning more towards the h51c but would h51fc be a better alternative? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated and thank you in advance. Seriously, I was thinking the "w" would suffice but "c" would better illustrate the poop color??? :sick2:


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## Diablo_331 (Sep 19, 2011)

You could get the h51c and put a film diffuser on it. Makes it two lights in one.


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## miyagi (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks Diablo.


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## Diablo_331 (Sep 19, 2011)

miyagi said:


> Thanks Diablo.



You're welcome Miyagi. Search for the "Changing LED Tint With Filters" thread for an affordable DIY solution for tint changing and diffusing. Big thanks to Derek Dean for putting that thread together btw.


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## applevision (Sep 23, 2011)

Just have to update my main fellas... got the H51c today and I am deeply impressed. This emitter (which is why I am posting here--same as the SC51c) is spectacular. Compared to my H501w, it is MUCH better at rendering color--I am amazed. I would say--and please forgive me, HDS junkies--it's as good or BETTER than my HDS ECD High CRI--Yipes! I will say that I do have a renewed appreciation for the pure floodiness of the H501w, however. This light has a beautiful beam, but it is a traditional beam with a reflector, and thus hotspot + spill. This makes it a better caving light possibly, and better for medium to long distances, of course, but actually makes me like it less for the late night close up tasks that I use my H501w for--like reading books! So now... I am already getting hungry for the H502c (XM-L)... which you can read abou here!

What an amazing time to be a flashaholic!

p.s. I did a comparison between the SC50w and the HDS High EDC here, in case you are interested.


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## kaichu dento (Sep 23, 2011)

Apple, thanks for the links!


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## edc3 (Sep 23, 2011)

I'm glad you like your H51c, applevision. I'm hoping mine will be delivered today. I've never had one of the pure flood ZLs, but I have a Saint Minimus and its beam pattern is excellent. I'll probably add some DC Fix to my H51c. I really want to find or make a good removable diffuser solution for my ZL headlamps. Something as functional as the Surefire F04.


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## applevision (Sep 23, 2011)

edc3 said:


> I'm glad you like your H51c, applevision. I'm hoping mine will be delivered today. I've never had one of the pure flood ZLs, but I have a Saint Minimus and its beam pattern is excellent. I'll probably add some DC Fix to my H51c. I really want to find or make a good removable diffuser solution for my ZL headlamps. Something as functional as the Surefire F04.



Oh! Thanks, edc3--this is a neat idea. I might get some DC Fix as well, very clever. Thanks guys!


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## applevision (Sep 23, 2011)

Oops! Double post!


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## eh4 (Oct 23, 2011)

From GaAslamp's graph: http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2592/lxm3pw51.png
if I'm understanding it right it looks like SC51c would deliver more light with a 450nm red filter than other lights...

edit, no I'm not understanding this right, looks like I have it backwards with wavelength/color, red at long end and blue at short. ugh.

It's the warm tints that will give brightest red light with filter, or longest run times at lower settings with red filter, but the high CRI still looks like the best all around compromise.
I found links for 600nm filters, I still don't get the link removal thing quite so I won't bother linking, but I'm not affiliated with Anyone.


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## tbenedict (Nov 10, 2011)

Brasso said:


> Just fyi, but I've had many Zebralights, and sometimes they seem finicky about turning on. The problem I've found is that they are shipped with grease on the contact points. Use some deoxit on a Qtip and clean the contact points in the tailcap, spring, and inside the body at the head. This will not only make the light 100% to use, it will usually make it brighter as well.



I noticed this a couple of times on the one I just got. I thought the battery had run down (reduced high) and started noticing some flickering. Just rubbing the tube lip on my thumb cleared it up and made it much brighter. (had to do this a couple of times)

I'm guessing the best around the house substitute for deoxit would be rubbing alcohol on a Q-tip?


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## shelm (Dec 1, 2012)

Does anyone know when the SC51 was released as opposed to the SC51c High CRI Release?
Maybe from that time difference we could draw a conclusion for the SC52 and the SC52c?


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## Brasso (Dec 1, 2012)

The only high cri xml is about 3k, and knowing Zebralight, they won't use it. They never use anything that warm.


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