# Drive with blue headlights in Tennessee, get a ticket



## PhotonWrangler

This is going to be a huge can of worms. How does one determine how blue-ish a headlight really is, and where is the cutoff between street legal OEM HID headlights and aftermarket retrofits and blue-tinted halogens?


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## Alaric Darconville

PhotonWrangler said:


> This is going to be a huge can of worms. How does one determine how blue-ish a headlight really is, and where is the cutoff between street legal OEM HID headlights and aftermarket retrofits and blue-tinted halogens?



All I can say is "good" (or maybe, "it's about time!").

Go to www.danielsternlighting.com, read the treatises and the regulations there, and you'll see how one makes those determinations and sets the cutoff. 

This is a good article to start with: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/blue.html

It does seem that they are prosecuting these according to the wrong law-- it's not that "only law enforcement vehicles are allowed lighting that appears blue", rather that "all vehicle headlights must emit white light". (When have you seen a police car with blue headlights? It can't and won't happen as that vehicle will not be road legal.)


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## PhotonWrangler

I'm in complete agreement that those deep blue and pueple halogen bulbs are silly and dangerous, and they only _reduce_ usable visibility and increase glare (not to mention shortening the life of the bulb with excess heat). And yes, they should not be prosecuting under the "only the police can use blue" law - they should be treating it as a headlamp that does not meet DOT specs.


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## Benson

PhotonWrangler said:


> This is going to be a huge can of worms. How does one determine how blue-ish a headlight really is, and where is the cutoff between street legal OEM HID headlights and aftermarket retrofits and blue-tinted halogens?


Well, they're not going by conformity to headlight regulations (which actually do specify chromaticity limits), but by claiming the headlights are blue lights, as reserved by law to police vehicles.


If your bulbs (even if HIDs or having blue-tinted glass) do conform to the color regs, you should have no problem beating it in court, as the color defined for a white bulb can't possibly be blue. But I suspect these mostly won't be ticketed in the first place. If they are, then yeah, it opens a can of worms that will procede to crawl over the whole enforcement push.

If your bulbs are the crazy 10000K HIDs, yeah, they're blue, and I'm pretty sure you can't get out of it, even though it's a long way from the intent of the blue-lights-are-for-cops law -- at best, you'll get off the hook for that and they'll prosecute you for illegal headlights. No worm-can here.

If they're in-between -- bluer than the headlight regs permit, but definitely a cool tint of white rather than anything honestly describable as blue -- I'd say there's some chance of being ticketed and some chance not, even for the same headlights. Between the huge advantage given the state in infraction cases (whether fair or not), and the lack of solid evidence you can bring without proving yourself in violation of headlight regs, I imagine the officer's judgment will be upheld 99% of the time; there's no way these cases can really do any worm-opening.

If you're asking whether officers will be issued a breathalyzer equivalent for measuring CCT or full chromaticity... well, of course not. That would be helpful if you wanted to enforce the headlight regs, but I'm sure the reason they're going with the blue lights law in the first place is because they want to keep it a simple visual judgment so they can make money from tickets without paying for test equipment.


Anyway, I think I'm going to go design and market snap-on "Tennessee orange" covers that go over your blue-filtered halogens to avoid getting busted while driving through Hazzard -- I mean Robertson -- county. Should sell like hotcakes. 

As for the argument that this will do some good... Really? You mean the people paying $100 or more up-front to "upgrade" their car with glare-spattering blue HIDs will all of a sudden stop when they get hit with a $250 fine for having their headlights "too bright" (you _know_ that's what they'll say they were ticketed for!)? Yeah, they're violating the regulations (the DOT headlight regulations, anyway), so I'm _not_ saying they shouldn't be busted for it, but I'm skeptical as to what actual effect this will have in making the roads safer.


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## jtr1962

There's a difference between obnoxious deep blue or purple headlights versus lights with just enough blue coating to make them appear white, rather than yellow. I hope the law distinguishes between that difference, or they'll be ticketing cars with factory OEM HIDs as "too blue". I also wonder exactly how they're going to enforce this law without equipping every patrol car with a color temperature meter. If they're only going to go after the extreme cases like 10000K blue, or green or purple or whatever other colors are currently "fashionable", then it couldn't happen soon enough. I'm personally sick and tired of people blinging up their cars to the point that aesthetics trumps safety or functionality.


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## 65535

$250 isn't nearly enough for the tools driving around with blue or other off colored headlights. It's easy enough to tell the difference between OEM HID (or even a good retrofit job) and illegal HID/over tinted halogens.
I personally hate blue and purple lights, I once saw a guy driving with lights that were probably these. 

http://gothidxenon.com/images/webpurppp.jpg

Same color at least.


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## PhotonWrangler

jtr1962 said:


> I hope the law distinguishes between that difference, or they'll be ticketing cars with factory OEM HIDs as "too blue". I also wonder exactly how they're going to enforce this law without equipping every patrol car with a color temperature meter.



This is the crux of the problem. Perception of color temperature is subjective and can even be shifted by staring at another light source while writing the ticket. While the purple lights need to go, there's going to be an issue with those lights that are on the borderline between (subjective) white and blue.


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## Alaric Darconville

Benson said:


> Well, they're not going by conformity to headlight regulations (which actually do specify chromaticity limits), but by claiming the headlights are blue lights, as reserved by law to police vehicles.


Then they should issue TWO tickets-- one for the impersonation of a law enforcement officer / operation of a vehicle with the unauthorized designation of an emergency vehicle, and one for the LACK OF HEADLIGHTS.

The headlights can't be both headlights and illegal police lights. After all, police cars are ultimately CARS and must have working headlights.



> If they're in-between -- bluer than the headlight regs permit, but definitely a cool tint of white rather than anything honestly describable as blue -- I'd say there's some chance of being ticketed and some chance not, even for the same headlights. Between the huge advantage given the state in infraction cases (whether fair or not), and the lack of solid evidence you can bring without proving yourself in violation of headlight regs, I imagine the officer's judgment will be upheld 99% of the time; there's no way these cases can really do any worm-opening.



This is your worm-can getting opened-- another thing where the courts take the officer's word of his perception of a vehicle having blue lights when it can be proved that the lights meet the DOT standard. 

One of those times where you want to take your ticket to a jury trial (in matters exceeding $20.00 and whatnot) rather than traffic court.


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## Benson

Alaric Darconville said:


> Then they should issue TWO tickets-- one for the impersonation of a law enforcement officer / operation of a vehicle with the unauthorized designation of an emergency vehicle, and one for the LACK OF HEADLIGHTS.
> 
> The headlights can't be both headlights and illegal police lights. After all, police cars are ultimately CARS and must have working headlights.


I love it! 



> This is your worm-can getting opened-- another thing where the courts take the officer's word of his perception of a vehicle having blue lights when it can be proved that the lights meet the DOT standard.


No, that was my first bullet-point -- and like I said, I don't _think_ they'll be issuing tickets on ones that do meet the DOT standard. If they do, worms aplenty!

The point you quoted is about ones that may or may not be perceived as blue (i.e. may by the officer, may not by the driver), but _can't_ be proven to meet the DOT standard because they actually don't...



> One of those times where you want to take your ticket to a jury trial (in matters exceeding $20.00 and whatnot) rather than traffic court.


Absolutely. But still, at least in my state, infraction cases (even with a jury trial) are conducted with civil rules (preponderance of evidence vs. reasonable doubt) and with the presumption that a sworn officers testimonyis both honest and accurate until proven otherwise -- and the only way to prove your lights aren't blue is with chromaticity test results which (in this case) also prove your lights violate DOT regs.

Which, of course, is why, even if you go with technically illegal headlights (e.g. unapproved bulb type to improve illumination, or clean HID projector retrofits), you're definitely best off keeping all testable metrics within specs, just in case.


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## PhotonWrangler

Benson said:


> Which, of course, is why, even if you go with technically illegal headlights (e.g. unapproved bulb type to improve illumination, or clean HID projector retrofits), you're definitely best off keeping all testable metrics within specs, just in case.



Amen. Praise the Ford.


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## jonnycat

*Moderation - post deleted. - DM51*


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## DIY Lumens

Alaric Darconville said:


> This is your worm-can getting opened-- another thing where the courts take the officer's word of his perception of a vehicle having blue lights when it can be proved that the lights meet the DOT standard.
> 
> One of those times where you want to take your ticket to a jury trial (in matters exceeding $20.00 and whatnot) rather than traffic court.



It doesn't surprise me that we're talking about Tennessee, because that state has a very bad habit of charging people arbitrarily and letting them fight it (at a cost of $thousands) in court. Even if you win your case, you still lose and the state wins.

I would like to see every-weekend rallies of people with blue and purple headlights, stopping just short of the county line and spending lots of money in the adjoining counties.

I don't care for blue and purple headlights either, but this sounds like the kind of official harassment and stretching of a law that Tennessee is known for. Kinda' like pulling over a lone car on a rural county road and using an obscure law as the basis for declaring the interior of the car a "public area" so they can search it without permission, which Tennessee cops also do.


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## Robin24k

I remember back in 1998 or so, I got stopped because of the OEM HIDs in a 1997 Lincoln Mark VIII. After a little explaining that they were OEM, I was on my way.

I think this is something where common sense should be applied. If you put something in isn't white, or do something that is just just asking for trouble, don't complain when you get what you are looking for.


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## kaichu dento

I got blasted by a set of blue headlights on the way out of town the other night and everytime I see those things I wonder why they were ever allowed to equip vehicles with them in the first place.


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## mistergenius

*Drive with blue headlights in Tennessee get a ticket*

Renting a car/driving definitely has its merits. On our last trip, we rented a car. We didnt use it all the time, but when we did it was nice. If I find a good deal again, Im going for it


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## Apollo Cree

I'd like to see them bust people driving cars with OEM HID lights as well. Get those #[email protected]#$)(!! things off the road.


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