# Mods for Old 6 Volt Rectangular Base Flashlight



## ryles (Feb 15, 2010)

A good friend of mine just gave me an old 6 volt flashlight that belonged to his Grandparents. This light takes the 6 volt rectangular battery with the screw top posts. It has a round 4" or so primary light that takes a normal maglite type bulb. It also has a red light on the tail end that takes a screw in type bulb.

My question is what can I do to this light to keep it relatively stock but make it much brighter. The lens is glass and the reflector is aluminum.

I am trying to source an alkaline 6volt battery and I just purchased a 4D cell xenon bulb. I think this should help.

I'd really like to soup it up a bit so when we go camping next I can bring it out and give him a little wow. The light has sentimental value as it means a lot that he gave this light to me so I don't want to change the stock look at all.

Has anyone ever "hollowed" out one of these 6 volt rectangulars and stuffed it with NiMh? Maybe then I could build a ROP type light out of it? What about one of the ROP bulbs with just the normal 6v alkaline?

Thanks,

Ryles


----------



## lctorana (Feb 15, 2010)

Are the reflector and bulbholder metal or plastic?


----------



## ryles (Feb 15, 2010)

The reflector is aluminum. The lens is glass. The bulb holder is a plastic "nut" that screws into the aluminum reflector.

I swapped out the old p12 bulb for a 4d mag lite xenon bulb (4.8v) and it is much better. Of course if I can make it brighter still......


----------



## lightseeker2009 (Feb 16, 2010)

Don't know how big is the insides but if you can put in a 7.2V Nimh battery pack driving a 6volt Phillips HPR71 bulp. Its really a very bright upgrade


----------



## Conte (Feb 17, 2010)

I've hollowed out and rigged the batteries before. 

I did it using a plastic Rayovac, I cut the top off and wired some blade connectors so I could drop in a small 6v 4ah SLA battery. After I would use some electrical tape to seal the top back on in such a way I could take it apart again if I had too. 

If you installed a pair of life-po4 cells in there, you'd get a good useable voltage for jsut about any 6 volt light.

What I ended up doing in the end, was just duct taping the top screw plate to the top of a large 6v 20ah SLA battery. 

I have an old Metal "Big Jim" that uses Par36 bulbs. I dropped a 25w hex flood bulb in there. I usually keep it in the back of my SUV during the summer and use it when loading my quad or bike onto my trailer in the dark.


----------



## Kestrel (Feb 17, 2010)

ryles said:


> I am trying to source an alkaline 6volt battery and I just purchased a 4D cell xenon bulb. I think this should help.
> [...]
> What about one of the ROP bulbs with just the normal 6v alkaline?


 


ryles said:


> I swapped out the old p12 bulb for a 4d mag lite xenon bulb (4.8v) and it is much better. Of course if I can make it brighter still......


I think that the highest-output bulb option without changing the voltage (and staying with the drop-in PR-base bulb format) is to use the Pelican 3753-H Xenon, it's something like ~*1.8A* / 4.8V compared to your current upgrade bulb, the 4-cell Mag Xenon (~*0.8A* / ~4.8V). This discharge rate is very demanding on alkaline chemistry and your cells won't last long. If you go up-voltage to 7.2v and go for NiMH rechargeable (which have much better performance under high drains than alkalines), then you're talking ROP for some serious output (500-1000 lumens or so), however that is a pretty fundamental change to your light. No big deal if that's what you want - and I do love ROP's BTW (I've put together two lights for friends using ROP-L's and a few more using 3753-H's as well.)

Check out *this thread* I did with the Pelican 3753-H @ 4.8v.
(I'm guessing ~250 lumens or so, perhaps ?twice? the output of your current 4-cell Mag Xenon bulb?)

Here are some beamshots I did a while back, comparing the *standard (Krypton)* 4-cell Mag bulb to the Pelican 3753-H:
*Stock Mag 4D bulb*__________________*Pelican 3753-H*









The Mag Xenon should be somewhat better than the Mag Krypton, but the 3753-H should be another step up from there.

There are a few more beamshots in my thread that I've referenced.
Hope this helps,
K


----------



## Kestrel (Feb 17, 2010)

ryles said:


> The bulb holder is a plastic "nut" that screws into the aluminum reflector.


I think I know what this looks like - I have a few cheapie lights on my work desk right now that use the exact same configuration.

There is a good chance that an ROP-low (Pelican 3854-L) could melt/deform your plastic bulb holder. I ran the 3753-H (~half the output of the ROP-L) in a plastic bulb receptacle (a bicycle headlight) for one hour and got very slight deformation in the plastic, although there was substantial spring pressure involved with that configuration which made the situation worse.

IMO the 3753-H is the maximum that this particular part might be able to take.


----------



## lctorana (Feb 17, 2010)

Basically, I agree with Kestrel.

The alkaline battery should cope with a 1.8A drain (after all it has 2 massive F cells in parallel) but it's a pretty expensive battery to drain that quickly.

Here's another idea, picking up earlier poster's thoughts.

Empty the cells out of a dead lantern battery, and replace them with a 7.2V NiMH RC pack, or six NiMH cells (6 x AA, Sub-C, C, D or even F will fit), and replace the globe with a:

Philips HPR71 if you are in Australia or Europe
Pelican 3854L if you are in North America
Reflectalite GH44 if you are in the UK
All three will give an identical result, and will be an astonishing increase over ther 4-cell Mag Xenon.

I wouldn't go any angrier than that, these represent about as far as you can go with a plastic collar.


----------



## Radiophile (Feb 17, 2010)

I saw a rechargeable lantern battery at Walmart this past hunting season. The box was open so I took a look at it, and it looked just like a regular spring terminal lantern battery. It was SLA and I would have bought it if I had a decent flashlight that took that kind of battery.


----------



## C.F.Burgess Battery (Feb 18, 2010)

We have a plastic "battery box" that attaches to our Radar Lite available ... you can then use what ever configuration you'd like to use ...

What manufacturer is the lantern ?

The Burgess lanterns came with either a 6v Sealed beam (TW3) or with a 6v reflrctor/bulb (TW5) ...

Our current Lanterns have Sealed beam or Krypton bulb our a LED unit light ...


----------



## ryles (Feb 18, 2010)

So my first choice would be to pick up a SLA 6 volt rectangular battery if I can find one. I already have a couple of the smaller square 6 volt SLA's and charger. Does the SLA handle the high current drain better than Alkaline?

Cost of Alkalines is not a major issue as I don't see myself using this light all the time. I have many other lights that I would grab before this one. Of course if I get it bright enough that might change.

Another good choice would be to obtain a battery box and stuff it with alternative batteries.

Third choice would be to hollow out existing batter as I would need to come up with a way to reseal it that didn't look ugly but would allow me access into it for charging.

Sounds like the 3853 bulbs are the way to go. Are these 4.8 volt or 7.2 volt bulbs? I've seen both quoted.


----------



## Kestrel (Feb 18, 2010)

ryles said:


> So my first choice would be to pick up a SLA 6 volt rectangular battery if I can find one. I already have a couple of the smaller square 6 volt SLA's and charger. Does the SLA handle the high current drain better than Alkaline?
> [...]
> Sounds like the 3853 bulbs are the way to go. Are these 4.8 volt or 7.2 volt bulbs? I've seen both quoted.


That SLA rechargeable sounds interesting - I'm guessing it will hold up better than alkalines (most modern chemistries do), but someone else here will know more. *Does anybody know the voltage under load of a 6V SLA?* This could change the equation, perhaps the 3854 might be a better choice than the 3753 if a 6V SLA suffers less voltage drop under a heavy load compared to a 6V alkaline, requiring the higher voltage bulb.

BTW in your post, you wrote '3853', that's not correct & it's easy to mix the numbers up:
*3753 (comes in the Pelican '3754' pack), 4.8V 1.8A bulb*
3854 (~6 V Pelican bulb set) - most common ROP bulb, great with 6x NiMH @ ~7 to ~7.2V
3853 (~7 V Pelican bulb set) - less common ROP bulb, good with 2x IMR @ ~7.5V
#1 is what I was recommending for a minimal mod prior to more extensive modifications.


----------



## lctorana (Feb 18, 2010)

Don't get too excited - SLA batteries are not made in the size you want.


----------



## ryles (Feb 18, 2010)

Thanks to everyone on this thread. Based on Kestrel's previous threads I have ordered a set of the 3754 bulbs (to get the 3753). You are right, I had the numbers confused. I've been doing a ton of reading on Pelican bulbs, amps, 6v power drops, etc. So I'm going to try the 3753 bulb with a regular 6 volt rectangular battery. I will persue hollowing out the old dead battery as well. Perhaps I can get a couple of clips that I can rivet on that would clamp it back together. But if the alkaline holds up reasonably well I might just stop there and start thinking about a ROP. Once I get the 3753 I will post pictures and beamshots if I can figure out how to shoot those affectively.

Ryles


----------



## Howecollc (Feb 18, 2010)

C.F.Burgess Battery said:


> We have a plastic "battery box" that attaches to our Radar Lite available ... you can then use what ever configuration you'd like to use ...


*I assume this is the battery box you were referring to:*





I have a Burgess Radar Lamp Copper Hanging Lantern that would look great on top of this box with an SLA battery inside.
What are the interior dimensions of the box?
Do the posts of a 918 alkaline battery pass thru holes in the lid of the box (it seems they would be a little short), or are there permanent posts in the lid which connect via wires to the posts of the battery inside?
I took a look at your website; where can I get this box, and for how much?


----------



## C.F.Burgess Battery (Feb 19, 2010)

The posts are a fixture to the lid of the box ...

The inside of the box has 2 compartments designed to hold either 2x 6v springtops , 1x 6v springtop and some "emergengy" whatnots ...
We also have a 4x D cell holder to fit in the case ...

The website is under construction and my son is currently in Chicago Childrens Hospital ... give us a few days and we'll get the info up ...

Thanks !
dave


----------



## Howecollc (Feb 19, 2010)

Thank you for the information, I'm in no rush.


----------



## ryles (Feb 19, 2010)

This is exactly the box I need. How much is it? How do I order one?


----------



## lctorana (Feb 19, 2010)

I'd be in for a few - hotwiring PAR36 lanterns is my main interest.


----------



## Howecollc (Feb 20, 2010)

For anyone not familiar with the spring top 6 volt SLA rechargeable battery, it is exactly the same size as the traditional 6 volt heavy duty/alkaline battery which is used in many lanterns.






Whereas the 6 volt alkaline batteries actually only put out around 4.8 volts when placed under load, the SLA batteries put out a full 6 volts when under load. You would, therefore, have to choose bulbs accordingly. 

All the various manufacturers of spring top SLAs seem to offer them in the same 5.0Ah capacity. A look at the specs for the PowerSonic 650LS shows a maximum discharge current of 15 amps, and a runtime of 1 hour with a 3.0 amp load. You can use two of these batteries in parallel in the Burgess battery box mentioned above, which would yield 10Ah of capacity.

Runtime and current handling capability wouldn't be the issue with *ryles* light; there's only the question of how much heat the bulb socket can take. You could easily push a 3854 High, but for how long? For quick bursts, you could probably get away with it.


----------



## DaveG (Feb 20, 2010)

C.F.Burgess Battery said:


> The posts are a fixture to the lid of the box ...
> 
> The inside of the box has 2 compartments designed to hold either 2x 6v springtops , 1x 6v springtop and some "emergengy" whatnots ...
> We also have a 4x D cell holder to fit in the case ...
> ...


 That sounds like what I am looking for also.Thanks Dave.


----------



## lctorana (Sep 2, 2010)

C.F.Burgess Battery said:


> The posts are a fixture to the lid of the box ...
> 
> The inside of the box has 2 compartments designed to hold either 2x 6v springtops , 1x 6v springtop and some "emergengy" whatnots ...
> We also have a 4x D cell holder to fit in the case ...
> ...


Mr Burgess,

Any update on availability of the battery boxes, or even complete Radar Lites?


----------



## Hack On Wheels (Sep 2, 2010)

lctorana said:


> Mr Burgess,
> 
> Any update on availability of the battery boxes, or even complete Radar Lites?



Ditto that. I'm looking at hollowing out a MN918 battery once it's drained, but a proper box that I could fit with other cells would be a much nicer solution. A photo of how the cells sit inside would also be nice to see.


----------



## DaveG (Sep 2, 2010)

lctorana said:


> Mr Burgess,
> 
> Any update on availability of the battery boxes, or even complete Radar Lites?


 
Thanks for bringing this back to life,I would like to get my hands on a battery box.


----------



## ampdude (Sep 3, 2010)

That SLA battery is interesting, too bad it is NiMh I would be taking it out all the time to charge it. It would probably be worth it if there was one available in Ni-Cad. In the 6 volt lantern lights sometimes you can get away with using a 3 cell krypton Mag bulb. I think I have a 4 cell xenon in mine right now and an Energizer alkaline battery with F cells. I've had it in the vehicle for a long time as an emergency backup light.


----------



## poormanq45 (Sep 3, 2010)

Why not go with 2S3P 26650s? That would make the most sense to me and should fit the case.

That would give you 7.4~8.4V and ~12000mAh

Then upgrade the base to a ceramic one and build a ROP!

That would be cool to have 3~4 hours of ROP power!!!


----------



## broadgage (Dec 7, 2012)

Any news on availability of new, old style radar lites ?
I have tried the link in a previous post but it only seems to lead to a lot of not very relevant adverts.

And yes I know that this is a long dormant thread, but saw no point in starting another.


----------



## DaveG (Dec 9, 2012)

I am still looking for that battery box,its just what I need for my old Eveready/Big Jim light.


----------



## StorminMatt (Dec 21, 2012)

ampdude said:


> That SLA battery is interesting, too bad it is NiMh I would be taking it out all the time to charge it. It would probably be worth it if there was one available in Ni-Cad.



I know this is an old thread. However, SLA is NOT a NiMH battery. SLA = Sealed Lead Acid battery. This SLA lantern battery is really nothing more than a miniature 6V car battery (cars actually had 6V electrical systems 'way back when'). But the acid is either in the form of a gel ('Gel Cell'), or absorbed into fiberglass (AGM, or absorbed glass mat battery). Because the acid is gelled or absorbed, and the battery sealed, the battery can be run in any position without any worry of spilling (unlike a conventional flooded lead acid automotive battery, which can spill of not vertical). Of course, because of the different chemistry and voltage, a NiMH charger won't work. A smart automotive trickle charger with a 6V setting would be the best way to charge this sort of battery.

Speaking of lantern batteries, I've actually seen adaptors that will accommodate four D batteries in order to run a lantern. Such a setup will provide less voltage than a sealed lead acid battery. But it will be able to provide at least as much current as a sealed lead acid (and MUCH more than an alkaline). So it would still work well with a high-power bulb. Also, this setup will have higher capacity than a sealed lead acid battery (8-10AH, depending on the D cells vs 5AH for a sealed lead acid).


----------



## broadgage (Oct 14, 2013)

Any news on the availability of new, old style Burgess radar lites ?
I believe that it was proposed to start production again ?
The link in post 16 now only leads to some not very relevant adverts.


----------



## billttmore (Aug 6, 2014)

Just bought 2 old radar lites in mint condition at salvation army. The battery box converter seems like a great idea I may have to see if I can build one if there are none available...looks like the burgess battery website never quite made it!


----------



## Timothybil (Aug 6, 2014)

Sounds like a job for a part printer - anyone have one who is up to the challenge? It should be relatively easy to get the dimensions needed from a 918 battery and throw together a CAD drawing. Would be a nice winter project.


----------

