# 55W versus 35W HID?



## kramer5150 (Dec 31, 2009)

Do they use the same bulbs, only difference is the drive current from the ballast? Or are they actually different bulbs?

If the bulbs are different, do the 55W bulbs have a larger point source with the same surface brightness? Or is the point source the same size but brighter?

I am trying to DIY a cloud scorcher, and the increased lumen output of a 55W setup would be nice, but not if it is at the expense of output Lux. I want a pencil-beam out the front.

thanks in advance.


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## BVH (Dec 31, 2009)

Not that I've seen them all but all of the so-called Ebay kit bulbs, whether included with the 35 Watt kits or the 55 Watt kits that I've seen have pretty much the same arc gap. Maybe Dan will chime in here.


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## Patriot (Dec 31, 2009)

Kind of makes me wonder if the ebay kits are all 35W bulbs that are just being over driven by under-performing "55W" ballasts. My off the hip guess is that the arc gap is very slightly larger on higher output bulbs. The "100W" bulb in the 84W Blitz had a slightly larger gap than my 35W lights and I'm guessing that the 50W Fatboy probably has slightly more gap as well.


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## kramer5150 (Dec 31, 2009)

Patriot said:


> Kind of makes me wonder if the ebay kits are all 35W bulbs that are just being over driven by under-performing "55W" ballasts. My off the hip guess is that the arc gap is very slightly larger on higher output bulbs. The "100W" bulb in the 84W Blitz had a slightly larger gap than my 35W lights and I'm guessing that the 50W Fatboy probably has slightly more gap as well.



I was reading an older thread, how a couple members are overclocking their ballasts to about 50 watts, with just a pot adjustment and some added resistors. The Stanley HID runs at about 50 watts for its initial warm up.

It got me thinking... what the heck am I paying for:thinking:?


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## Patriot (Dec 31, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> It got me thinking... what the heck am I paying for:thinking:?




Longevity


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## jcw122 (Dec 31, 2009)

That sounds like a cool project...

All I can say is I know an eBay one I inquired about was 35w. I want to replace my Stanley's bulb, but from what I understand, the light initally boosts the light to around 60w then back down to 35w, so I dunno if having a bulb only rated for 35w will be good or not.


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## Patriot (Dec 31, 2009)

jcw122 said:


> That sounds like a cool project...
> 
> All I can say is I know an eBay one I inquired about was 35w. I want to replace my Stanley's bulb, but from what I understand, the light initally boosts the light to around 60w then back down to 35w, so I dunno if having a bulb only rated for 35w will be good or not.




That wattage of the bulb in the Stanley is ideal, though the color temperature is a bit cool. Some people have installed warmer 4300K 35W bulbs. Overdriving the bulb to 50-60W during the initial start up will not hurt it.


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## XeRay (Dec 31, 2009)

BVH said:


> Not that I've seen them all but all of the so-called Ebay kit bulbs, whether included with the 35 Watt kits or the 55 Watt kits that I've seen have pretty much the same arc gap. Maybe Dan will chime in here.


 
Yes, they use the same bulbs for both, even though they label some as 50 or 55W. It is just "marketing" of the same bulb.

Patriot, the fatboy DL50 actually has a 3.9mm arc gap while std bulbs of quality pedigree have a 4.2mm gap.


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## jcw122 (Dec 31, 2009)

Patriot said:


> That wattage of the bulb in the Stanley is ideal, though the color temperature is a bit cool. Some people have installed warmer 4300K 35W bulbs. Overdriving the bulb to 50-60W during the initial start up will not hurt it.



What is the wattage of the bulb in the Stanley though? I know the light is rated at 35w, but what I'm wondering is if it uses a higher wattage rated bulb (if there is such thing) so that it can safety overdrive the bulb.


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## Patriot (Jan 1, 2010)

jcw122 said:


> What is the wattage of the bulb in the Stanley though? I know the light is rated at 35w, but what I'm wondering is if it uses a higher wattage rated bulb (if there is such thing) so that it can safety overdrive the bulb.




It's almost surely a 30-35W bulb. Using a 50W bulb for example would actually decrease performance. Where HID is concerned it's always better to slightly overdrive a bulb than underdrive it. Overdriving results in increased performance but reduced lifespan. Since HID bulbs are often rated to 2000-3000 hours it's of little consequence if you overdrive one and only get 1000-1500 hours.


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## BVH (Jan 1, 2010)

jcw122 said:


> What is the wattage of the bulb in the Stanley though? I know the light is rated at 35w, but what I'm wondering is if it uses a higher wattage rated bulb (if there is such thing) so that it can safety overdrive the bulb.



JC, all HID bulbs are safely and seriously overdriven during start up. The Stanley just a bit more than others because of their boost system. So instead of the 2500 hours of life, you might get only 1500 hours - that is, if the rest of the light lasts that long, which it probably wont. The short answer is, don't worry about it.

Thanks, Dan!


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## Patriot (Jan 1, 2010)

XeRay said:


> Yes, they use the same bulbs for both, even though they label some as 50 or 55W. It is just "marketing" of the same bulb.
> 
> Patriot, the fatboy DL50 actually has a 3.9mm arc gap while std bulbs of quality pedigree have a 4.2mm gap.




Thanks for entering in here Dan. I almost missed your post until I saw Bob's recent post. I think you've keyed in on an important specific here and that's "quality pedigree." If I'm going to compare different bulbs it doesn't help much for me to be looking at the $10 bulb in my Costo vs. a 50W Osram. So, just out of curiosity how does a 50W Fatboy produce more light than a 35W Osram for example if the arc gaps are similar? What is actually happening at 50W inside of a bulb that isn't happening at 35W, which allows more light to be produced? Is the arc "fatter" since the wattage is higher?

Thanks Dan.


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## BVH (Jan 1, 2010)

Patriot, I remember back during the first Shootout 3 evening. Mr Ted Bear took shots of the Xeray 50 Watt light with a G.E bulb and then again with the FatBoy. We might have even had the Asian bulb that came stock in an Asian version of the Xeray light. In our opinions on that night, all of us thought the GE bulb produced a bit more light and/or it was a bit less green than the Fatboy - both being driven at 50 watts. I think we gathered again on another night (Shootout 3B?) or Jeff did another shoot by himself, can't quite remember. But Dan had sent him a BarnBurner so more shots were taken and there was a guessing game on CPF as to what the new mystery light was.

I think we have been "conditioned" over time, to think that the Fatboy produces more light because we are so used to talking about it and seeing it in uses over 50 watts - where it begins to shine - no pun intended. At 50 Watts, it is not being overdriven like the GE is so it is logical to think that it is not going to be as bright at 50 watts as the GE is.

IIRC, Dan sold the Xeray 50 Watt with the GE bulb as standard. You could opt for the Fatboy if you wanted for the same cost. I would guess that he used the GE because it was brighter in this application and/or it cost less.


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## jcw122 (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for the information BVH and Patriot, and sorry for the slight threadjack


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## BVH (Jan 1, 2010)

Me thinks we're all a bit guilty of thread-jacking here.


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## vee73 (Jan 1, 2010)

What I have measured the impact on the efficacy of light is a bulb or ballast exchange.
35W burner, and Ballast: 29000 Lux.
55W Ballast 35W burner: 30500 Lux.
55W ballast and the burner: 42400 Lux.
35W Ballast 55W burner: 40800 Lux.

Bulbs were these:
http://kauppa.erikoistekniikka.com/xenon-muutossarjat-c-43.html


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## Isthereanybodyoutthere (Jan 1, 2010)

vee73 said:


> What I have measured the impact on the efficacy of light is a bulb or ballast exchange.
> 35W burner, and Ballast: 29000 Lux.
> 55W Ballast 35W burner: 30500 Lux.
> 55W ballast and the burner: 42400 Lux.
> ...



Ok i am no expert 
So when i see these numbers ,combined with this statement 
(Patriot, the fatboy DL50 actually has a 3.9mm arc gap while std bulbs of quality pedigree have a 4.2mm gap.)

correct me where /if i am wrong 

Lux is a amount of light on a specific area ,,Right ??

Lumen is the TOTAL amount of ligt emitted ,,right ??

a small arc will give more light on a smaller area /better throw ,,right??

so the numbers that indicate more lux with the 55Wat bulbs could be because of the smaller arc 
but it could be that the 35watt bulb with the same ballast would/could give more lumens than the 55 watt ,only not as tight focused ,,right??


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## vee73 (Jan 1, 2010)

My way of measuring (lightbox) measures the total amount of light. I declare the Lux because I do not have a Lumen meter.


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