# What is the best charger and 18650's for the money?



## CJT (Sep 28, 2014)

Hi everyone, I have been reading and reading post trying to determine what exactly I should buy. I'm going into the HVAC field and want to have some good lights to work with. I have read through HJK's very informative post but I couldn't find anything on what someone might recommend as they all appear to have a con to them, some are excellent but have a slow charge rate etc. For instance the Nitecore D4 charges at .750 with 2 cells and .375 with 4 cells. Is it better to charge the batteries at a slower rate even though they can handle a 1 amp? How do you determine amp draw on the flashlight? I've been looking at a Thrunite TN12 and perhaps even a headlamp and want a high capacity battery for maximum runtime. I'd be thankful for anyone able to point me in the right direction or help me out.


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## oKtosiTe (Sep 29, 2014)

It's a bit like asking "what's the best car?". There's a reason there are thousands of different models out there.
I think the Xtar VP2 is a very decent charger and it can be had for about $35 now. 
EagleTac makes good protected 18650's that are relatively small and therefore have broad compatibility, but they are nowhere near the cheapest.


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## richardcpf (Sep 29, 2014)

+1 on the Xtar VP2. As of now it is one of the best the charger available. 

As for batteries, any protected cell based on the Panasonic 3400mAh is considered very good. For less than $10 each I would get these.

Of course there are other good chargers and batteries in the market but I think these two offers the best quality and value for the money, you can't go wrong.


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## sgt253 (Sep 29, 2014)

+2 on the Xtar VP2. Love mine.


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## oKtosiTe (Sep 29, 2014)

As for your other question: yes, it is generally easier on Li-ion cells to be charged at lower currents, but it can be convenient not to have to wait up to ten hours for a full charge. (i4/D4, I am looking at you.)


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## markr6 (Sep 29, 2014)

Another vote for the VP2. Buy once, cry once. VP2 + a set of the popular NCR18650B is a good start for most lights. I only buy unprotected batteries, so we're talking about $18 for a set.


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## zebraa (Sep 29, 2014)

I vote for the XTAR VP2 charger, it's very good. For protected batteries, get some Protected 3400mAh NCR18650Bs from Mountain Electronics, as their prices are very fair (oKtosiTe linked them). The Panasonics can be charged at 1 amp (this is below their standard charge rate), which means they will be done charging in just a few hours.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 29, 2014)

I think a quality charger should use the CC/CV algorithm for LiIon cells. For that I also go with the XTAR VP2 - or (now that I see it's available) the VP4 if you need to charge more cells if you need.

I've been very happy with my Panasonic based 3400 18650 cells. If you need more power and want to go IMR the Sony VTC5 and the eFest purple are great cells.


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## zebraa (Sep 29, 2014)

The VP4 is good but it is not a 4-bay version of the VP2. It has less features.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 29, 2014)

Yes - you are right. I actually have the VP1 which has all the features I need at the moment. The VP4 appears to be the 4-bay version of the VP1.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?389994-XTAR-VP4-4-Bay-Lithium-Ion-Charger


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## CJT (Sep 29, 2014)

So how do you determine amp draw of a flashlight? Thank you for the recommendations.


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## zebraa (Sep 29, 2014)

CJT said:


> So how do you determine amp draw of a flashlight? Thank you for the recommendations.



I found this page very helpful on this very subject:
http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/Measurement UK.html


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Sep 29, 2014)

CJT said:


> So how do you determine amp draw of a flashlight? Thank you for the recommendations.



For your purposes and the lights you are looking at now I think the 3400mAh is the better bet. A protected cell is also safer while you are just getting into the area of LiIon cells. Remember safety is the most important thing.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries/

Read, learn and be safe. (Just don't become paranoid as it's not that bad)


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## CJT (Sep 29, 2014)

markr6 said:


> Another vote for the VP2. Buy once, cry once. VP2 + a set of the popular NCR18650B is a good start for most lights. I only buy unprotected batteries, so we're talking about $18 for a set.



Why do you use unprotected batteries? I was under the assumption that the protected batteries would be better. Thank you again for information..


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## thedoc007 (Sep 29, 2014)

CJT said:


> Why do you use unprotected batteries? I was under the assumption that the protected batteries would be better. Thank you again for information..



Again, neither type is "better" than the others. Protected cells are inherently more complicated, larger, and have at least slightly higher internal resistance. Unprotected cells are less safe, if you abuse them. You can permanently damage the cell simply by over-discharging it, and should it short circuit, you are gonna have a bad day. But they can deliver more current, are a simpler design (fewer things to go wrong, a protection circuit can fail) and fit better in some lights. 

The VP2 is a solid charger. I've been very happy with my Nitecore I4 and D4 chargers, too, but they are slower. If you plan ahead, this is no problem at all, but if you need a fast charge, the Nitecore's are NOT the way to go.

My personal recommendation would be the SoShine 18650, available at Illumination Supply. For a beginner, who is just learning about lithium-ion, protected cells are a good idea. The SoShines are shorter than most protected cells, which maximizes compatibility with a wide variety of lights. They are also pretty inexpensive - $8.50 each if you use the standard coupon code. I have purchased more than 20 of them, and all of them have worked as advertised.


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## markr6 (Sep 30, 2014)

CJT said:


> Why do you use unprotected batteries? I was under the assumption that the protected batteries would be better. Thank you again for information..



thedoc pretty much summed it up with those advantages. And I have absolutely no concerns since all my lights, mainly Zebralights, let you know when the battery is getting close to being over-discharged. Heck, I rarely get even down to 3.6v let alone 3v or 2.5v! I had to TRY to hit the warning once time just to make sure it works. It does. And even my other lights like Fenix PD32UE drops down to medium when it can no longer support high mode, so time to recharge. As for overcharging, maybe on a $1 ebay charger, but even then I found those to be fine, terminating under 4.2v.


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## CJT (Sep 30, 2014)

Okay, so I'll start off with some protected cells I'm thinking till I better understand the batteries. Has anyone had any luck buying batteries off of Amazon? I found these, but wanted some input before I bought anything. From what I've read I need to stay away from eBay because of fakes, just want to make sure I stay with reputable dealers. So Illumination Supply and Mountain Electronics are both reputable dealers?


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## ChrisGarrett (Sep 30, 2014)

I buy from these guys:

http://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/batteries.html?___store=default

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/opencart/index.php?route=product/category&path=59_88

You want 'made in Japan' Panasonic NCR18650Bs, not China.

Chris


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## pipes (Oct 2, 2014)

Seems like a super deal on those batteries. Most other places are asking 14-24 for 3400 mah. And most are rebranded Panasonics anyway as I understand.


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## thedoc007 (Oct 2, 2014)

CJT said:


> Okay, so I'll start off with some protected cells I'm thinking till I better understand the batteries. Has anyone had any luck buying batteries off of Amazon? I found these, but wanted some input before I bought anything. From what I've read I need to stay away from eBay because of fakes, just want to make sure I stay with reputable dealers. So Illumination Supply and Mountain Electronics are both reputable dealers?



Yes, they are reputable. Not only that, they both have great prices and customer service.

The batteries you linked to on Amazon are unprotected cells...as long as you are aware of battery safety, and know that your light will take the shorter cells, they will be good cells for you.


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## SureAddicted (Oct 4, 2014)

Don't know about the best, but out of the mass produced chargers, the Soshine chargers (H4) offer more than either xtar or nitecore.
Being able to set charge current for each individual slot is a big deal for me, neither xtar or nitecore have this feature.
Plus it will charger batteries from 26650 all the way down to AAA.


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## CJT (Oct 4, 2014)

Ended up ordering the Xtar VP2 charger and a set of the SoShine 3400 mah 18650 to go with a Thrunite TN12 2014 from Illumination. Just got it yesterday so I haven't got to play with it much, but the little I have all I can say is wow.


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## pipes (Oct 5, 2014)

I just picked up the nitecore d4 and some keeppower 3400's from them, came in today. Very happy so far.


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## Tapis (Oct 8, 2014)

SureAddicted said:


> ... out of the mass produced chargers, the Soshine chargers (H4) offer more than either xtar or nitecore.


Thanks, it's good to know. We have extensive reviews here, but I never saw any side by side comparison that could help non-specialists like myself make the final purchase decision.


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## oKtosiTe (Oct 9, 2014)

SureAddicted said:


> Don't know about the best, but out of the mass produced chargers, the Soshine chargers (H4) offer more than either xtar or nitecore.
> Being able to set charge current for each individual slot is a big deal for me, neither xtar or nitecore have this feature.
> Plus it will charger batteries from 26650 all the way down to AAA.


But it got a pretty bad review from HKJ.


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## pipes (Oct 9, 2014)

I chose to stay away from soshine batteries as well personally.


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 9, 2014)

pipes said:


> I chose to stay away from soshine batteries as well personally.



I know it's a small sample size, but I bought a pair of Soshine/Orbtronic protected 16340s and one literally took a dump on me and died completely after 2-3 months. They were cheap and the second one charges up to 4.10v after a couple of years, but I haven't been back for another taste and won't.

Chris


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## thedoc007 (Oct 9, 2014)

I can only speak regarding the SoShine 3400 mAh 18650, but I do have a larger sample size. More than 20, and never a single problem. Still think they are the best value out there, for standard cells.


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 9, 2014)

thedoc007 said:


> I can only speak regarding the SoShine 3400 mAh 18650, but I do have a larger sample size. More than 20, and never a single problem. Still think they are the best value out there, for standard cells.



If you must have protected cells, they might be a bargain.

Me personally? I'm running naked cells and just paid $7.75 ea. for four Samsung 25-Rs for my new M.E. modified SupFire M6, so even with multi-cell lights, I'm foregoing PCBs on the cells themselves. The light has a low voltage cutoff and rampdown, so maybe that's enough?

Livin' the fast life in the big city, I guess?

Chris


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## SureAddicted (Oct 10, 2014)

oKtosiTe said:


> But it got a pretty bad review from HKJ.



That is for the H2 charger, not H4.
Also have never had an issue with Soshine 18650s, 3100 and 3400.
I also don't agree with some of the things HKJ says in that review, he goes on to say that charging a 2000 mAh eneloop only charges at 1000 mAh, and states that "this is not very good".
I highly disagree with him on that point, I have charged eneloops at 2A, they came off the charger red hot, way too hot to handle and I'm positive that decreased cycle life by a fair margin.


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## HKJ (Oct 10, 2014)

SureAddicted said:


> I also don't agree with some of the things HKJ says in that review, he goes on to say that charging a 2000 mAh eneloop only charges at 1000 mAh, and states that "this is not very good".
> I highly disagree with him on that point, I have charged eneloops at 2A, they came off the charger red hot, way too hot to handle and I'm positive that decreased cycle life by a fair margin.



I will insist that only filling a battery half up (or even less) is "not very good". I did not complain about 1A charge current (Look at the unit mA*h* is capacity, mA is current).
Anyway, eneloop is rated for 2A charge current as can be seen in the datasheet.


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## mcnair55 (Oct 10, 2014)

Need a box of popcorn for this.:devil:


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Oct 10, 2014)

My two cents on Soshine stuff is that it is cheap junk. This comes from my experience with their products from a few years back. I bought a 4-bay charger and some RCR123 cells. The cells were pretty junky and didn't last long. The charger always got the cells warm during charging. I wasn't sure that it was overcharging the cells at first but some of my 18650 cells were experiencing severely shortened runtimes. It was then that I saw they were terminating the cells around 4.25-4.3 volts - basically killing them.

HKJs review shows that the charger is still overcharging the cells to 4.3+ volts.

Regardless of your short term experiences with this charger/cells you will experience shortened lifetime of your cells.

Don't claim that this charger is as good as a Pila, XTAR, Nitecore (I still wouldn't buy a nitecore charger as I think they are junk too, but better than the Soshine). You are wasting your money now because you will just be buying new cells/chargers down the road - the ones you should have bought in the first place.


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## SureAddicted (Oct 10, 2014)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> My two cents on Soshine stuff is that it is cheap junk. This comes from my experience with their products from a few years back. I bought a 4-bay charger and some RCR123 cells. The cells were pretty junky and didn't last long. The charger always got the cells warm during charging. I wasn't sure that it was overcharging the cells at first but some of my 18650 cells were experiencing severely shortened runtimes. It was then that I saw they were terminating the cells around 4.25-4.3 volts - basically killing them.
> 
> HKJs review shows that the charger is still overcharging the cells to 4.3+ volts.



It's funny, over the years I never experienced warms cells coming off any of my soshine chargers, and I've owned/used a lot of the chargers out on the market.
Cheap junk? I'm guessing you'd speak more favorable about ****fire batteries and chargers.
It's been anything but short term, and I haven't experienced short battery life yet.
You're writing off a company because you had a dud charger years back...
The charger I was referring to is the H4, not the H2 that was reviewed. The H2 is inferior to the H4.
In fact, the only time I've ever heard a bad comment about soshine batteries was from present company, wow!
Try not to assume next time.


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## Tapis (Oct 10, 2014)

I had also the impression that Soshine improved a lot during the last few years, and am willing to trust the brand. I guess a review of the H4 charger is a must have now


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## HKJ (Oct 10, 2014)

Tapis said:


> I guess a review of the H4 charger is a must have now



I have put in a order for the H4, but I do not expect to publish a review before December or January.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Oct 10, 2014)

SureAddicted said:


> It's funny, over the years I never experienced warms cells coming off any of my soshine chargers, and I've owned/used a lot of the chargers out on the market.
> Cheap junk? I'm guessing you'd speak more favorable about ****fire batteries and chargers.
> It's been anything but short term, and I haven't experienced short battery life yet.
> You're writing off a company because you had a dud charger years back...
> ...



I do not assume - I go from previous experience and buy products that I know work. If a product is a piece of junk it goes to reason that their newer products are still sub-par.

I go with proven technologies. 

If HKJ's review shows otherwise then I will take back my comments.


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## HKJ (Oct 10, 2014)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> I do not assume - I go from previous experience and buy products that I know work. If a product is a piece of junk it goes to reason that their newer products are still sub-par.
> 
> I go with proven technologies.
> 
> If HKJ's review shows otherwise then I will take back my comments.



I am curios what my test will show, Soshine products are a bit up and down, some are good, some not. The H2 was definitely not good, but the H2 V2 did fix many of the problems.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Oct 10, 2014)

I look forward to your review. The most important thing to me are a good CC/CV profile and proper termination voltage.

i bought the new Opus you reviewed because of it ability to test Ir and capacity testing. Based on your testing showing the PWM charging method used and the high peak voltage hits during the PWM cycles I don't think I would use it daily.


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## marinemaster (Oct 12, 2014)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I buy from these guys:
> 
> http://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/batteries.html?___store=default
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link.


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## WFJ (Oct 13, 2014)

There is no best, only the most suitable.
Maybe you can have a try with Enova All-80, it can charge 8PCS 26650/18650 batteries at the same time, but its charge current is 675mAh, will take some times.


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## oKtosiTe (Oct 14, 2014)

WFJ said:


> There is no best, only the most suitable.
> Maybe you can have a try with Enova All-80, it can charge 8PCS 26650/18650 batteries at the same time, but its charge current is 675mAh, will take some times.


Heh, that one slipped by me somehow, but let's just say it looks... familiar.


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## thedoc007 (Oct 14, 2014)

oKtosiTe said:


> Heh, that one slipped by me somehow, but let's just say it looks... familiar.



Me too, first time I've ever heard of it. Seems like a great charger, if you have tons of cells to charge at once. I might have gone with that instead of a couple I4s, if I had known about it back then.


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## Tapis (Oct 14, 2014)

WFJ said:


> Maybe you can have a try with Enova All-80, it can charge 8PCS 26650/18650 batteries at the same time, but its charge current is 675mAh, will take some times.


Reviewed by HKJ here ---> http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Enova All-80 UK.html


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## HKJ (Oct 14, 2014)

Tapis said:


> Reviewed by HKJ here ---> http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Enova All-80 UK.html



And if there are questions to the review, they can be asked here on CPF in my review thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?390924-Test-Review-of-Charger-Enova-All-80


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## Andrew LB (Oct 15, 2014)

oKtosiTe said:


> As for your other question: yes, it is generally easier on Li-ion cells to be charged at lower currents, but it can be convenient not to have to wait up to ten hours for a full charge. (i4/D4, I am looking at you.)



10 hours? eh? I have a Nitecore D4 and it only takes a few hours to charge a pair of 18650's. I know the current is less if charging more than 2 cells but i've never had it take as long as you say. Maybe 5 hours if they're all really discharged. I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I only power my D4 with a 12v 4amp linear laptop power supply. Which reminds me of a while back reading that some guy was wanting to use a PC ATX power supply for his charger... not a good idea. Switching power supplies typically have far dirtier power which can cause chargers to misread that a battery is finished charging causing over or under charging.


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## HKJ (Oct 15, 2014)

Andrew LB said:


> 10 hours? eh? I have a Nitecore D4 and it only takes a few hours to charge a pair of 18650's. I know the current is less if charging more than 2 cells but i've never had it take as long as you say. Maybe 5 hours if they're all really discharged. I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I only power my D4 with a 12v 4amp linear laptop power supply. Which reminds me of a while back reading that some guy was wanting to use a PC ATX power supply for his charger... not a good idea. Switching power supplies typically have far dirtier power which can cause chargers to misread that a battery is finished charging causing over or under charging.



A bit about 5 hours for two empty 3100mAh batteries and about 10 hours for 4 empty 3100mAh batteries.
The internal power supply in i4/D4 is a switching power supply and most plug packs are also switching power supplies, i.e. I would not expect problems from that. A PC power supply may have problem if the load is to small, it often needs a minimum load to be stable.


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## oKtosiTe (Oct 15, 2014)

Andrew LB said:


> 10 hours? eh? I have a Nitecore D4 and it only takes a few hours to charge a pair of 18650's. I know the current is less if charging more than 2 cells but i've never had it take as long as you say. Maybe 5 hours if they're all really discharged. I'm not sure if it makes a difference, but I only power my D4 with a 12v 4amp linear laptop power supply. Which reminds me of a while back reading that some guy was wanting to use a PC ATX power supply for his charger... not a good idea. Switching power supplies typically have far dirtier power which can cause chargers to misread that a battery is finished charging causing over or under charging.


What HKJ said. Again, the i4 (and AFAIK the D4) charges at an average of 375mA when all slots are occupied.
When accounting for a certain amount of energy loss, 10 hours of charging is not unrealistic for a truly empty 3100/3400mAh cell.

The very first time I charged my four brand new 18650's for my brand new TM11 (two years ago), I had a hard time bringing up the patience, but it's never been an issue since: I have never drained a Li-ion cell below 3.2V and usually top them up every few days. My current EDC is 1x18650 and even accepts some cells I tore out of a laptop battery, so now I don't really care either way; I have plenty of cells to cycle. Ignoring the VP2 I recently purchased.


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## Tapis (Oct 15, 2014)

oKtosiTe said:


> Ignoring the VP2 I recently purchased.


Sorry, what do you mean by that? I just bought an xstar VP2 and thought it's one of the best two slots chargers.


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## thedoc007 (Oct 15, 2014)

Tapis said:


> Sorry, what do you mean by that? I just bought an xstar VP2 and thought it's one of the best two slots chargers.



If you read his post, he explained why. He has plenty of cells to use while others are charging, so he has no need for the VP2, the Nitecore chargers are already meeting his needs. Doesn't say anything about the quality of the VP2 either way.

And yes, the *Xtar* VP2 is an excellent charger.


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## oKtosiTe (Oct 15, 2014)

thedoc007 said:


> If you read his post, he explained why. He has plenty of cells to use while others are charging, so he has no need for the VP2, the Nitecore chargers are already meeting his needs. Doesn't say anything about the quality of the VP2 either way.
> 
> And yes, the *Xtar* VP2 is an excellent charger.


Exactly: I could cycle my cells easily with the (slower) i4 if I had to (if I had no VP2). But I do have a VP2, and use it nearly every day now. Very happy with it.
Sorry if I was unclear.


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## Tapis (Oct 17, 2014)

@oKtosiTe - Thanks for the clarification 



thedoc007 said:


> And yes, the *Xtar* VP2 is an excellent charger.


Sometimes, newbies seek reassurance for their purchases


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## ChrisGarrett (Oct 17, 2014)

Tapis said:


> @oKtosiTe - Thanks for the clarification
> 
> 
> Sometimes, newbies seek reassurance for their purchases



I've had my VP2 for a good six months and it's working very well. The one knock on it is that it slightly undercharges cells, which is ultimately better for them, but right now, I'm using my NiteCore i4 v2 to charge up all four of my Samsung 25-Rs, so I can have them all done at the same time and get them closer to 4.20v.

Both have their places.

Chris


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## outdoorguy82 (Oct 18, 2014)

Has anyone here tried the Fenix ARE-C2 charger?


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## les_garten (Jul 17, 2015)

I have a Pila charger, is there any reason to replace my Pila with something like the Xtar VP2?


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## thedoc007 (Jul 17, 2015)

les_garten said:


> I have a Pila charger, is there any reason to replace my Pila with something like the Xtar VP2?



Does the Pila (unspecified model) meet all your needs? If so, then you don't need a new one. If not, the VP2 is excellent...it is my absolute favorite lithium-ion charger. It allows you to charge anything from 10440 to 26650 with appropriate current. It allows you to use 3.8 volt (4.35 max), 3.6/3.7 volt (4.2 max), and LiFePO4 (3.6 max) all in one unit. But you may or may not need all those features...


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## les_garten (Jul 17, 2015)

thedoc007 said:


> Does the Pila (unspecified model) meet all your needs? If so, then you don't need a new one. If not, the VP2 is excellent...it is my absolute favorite lithium-ion charger. It allows you to charge anything from 10440 to 26650 with appropriate current. It allows you to use 3.8 volt (4.35 max), 3.6/3.7 volt (4.2 max), and LiFePO4 (3.6 max) all in one unit. But you may or may not need all those features...



It's a Pila IBC, I thought there was only one Pila?

Well I was thinking of getting rid of a bunch of chargers and going Nitecore D4 or Xtar Vp2 because they can do all the Chemistry formulations.

I didn't want to dump the Pila if it was still the Grail charger as it once was.


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## thedoc007 (Jul 17, 2015)

les_garten said:


> It's a Pila IBC, I thought there was only one Pila?
> 
> Well I was thinking of getting rid of a bunch of chargers and going Nitecore D4 or Xtar Vp2 because they can do all the Chemistry formulations.
> 
> I didn't want to dump the Pila if it was still the Grail charger as it once was.




The VP2 is not a universal charger like the D4...it will not charge NiMH cells. 

If your cells are strictly lithium-ion, the VP2 definitely is more flexible. It also seems to be more consistent...there have been reports of the D4 undercharging (while this is MUCH better than overcharging, many find it annoying).

The D4 would give you more slots...if you don't mind a wait, it does a great job on both (li-ion and NiMH) types of cells.

Neither charger requires spacers...that would be a nice perk for either, compared to the Pila IBC.


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## les_garten (Jul 18, 2015)

thedoc007 said:


> The VP2 is not a universal charger like the D4...it will not charge NiMH cells.
> 
> If your cells are strictly lithium-ion, the VP2 definitely is more flexible. It also seems to be more consistent...there have been reports of the D4 undercharging (while this is MUCH better than overcharging, many find it annoying).
> 
> ...



Glad you pointed that out. I'm keeping a Maha C9000 for NiMH. The spacers are buggin on me as well.

I don't need 4 slots really.


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## SilverFox (Jul 18, 2015)

Hello Les garten,

I still value my Pila charger and use it frequently. No issues.

However, you can never have enough chargers...  

Tom


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## les_garten (Jul 18, 2015)

SilverFox said:


> Hello Les garten,
> 
> I still value my Pila charger and use it frequently. No issues.
> 
> ...



Heh! You would think that...

But I just inventoried mine and figured I had 5 chargers and really only need 2 and I could have even more Chemsitry's covered. So thought I could sell 4 of them and use the cash to buy the VP2.


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## HKJ (Jul 18, 2015)

SilverFox said:


> However, you can never have enough chargers...



I do not agree with that


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## les_garten (Jul 18, 2015)

HKJ said:


> I do not agree with that



Dude, you got to have some storage challenges...

On another note, can you recomend a good quality 18500 that is short for it's size?


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## HKJ (Jul 18, 2015)

les_garten said:


> On another note, can you recomend a good quality 18500 that is short for it's size?



Unprotected cells are short: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Sanyo UR18500F 1700mAh (Red) UK.html


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## les_garten (Jul 18, 2015)

HKJ said:


> Unprotected cells are short: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Sanyo UR18500F 1700mAh (Red) UK.html



I would need them protected.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Jul 18, 2015)

Just to add to the Pila discussion. I used to have two of them and they were (and no doubt still are) great chargers. They use proper CC/CV curves and treat cells very well. The only reason I made the switch to the Xtar was for the reasons others mentioned above - the spacers. It was driving me nuts after a while using the spacers to charge my smaller cells. One other reason was charge currents - I need a 0.25A to charge up my 10440 cells and the Pila charged a little too strong for them.

I have a Xtar VP1 and it's been a great charger. My cells have shown great longevity with this one. I also recently had the need to start charging 26650 cells so I picked up a VC4 - it's a bit slow on the bigger cells but that is not a problem for me - and it can do LiIon and NiMH at the same time.


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## les_garten (Jul 19, 2015)

I am trying to decide between the Xtar VC4 and VP2.

I have a Maha C9000

I am not sure whether I even have the need for IFR capability.

I mainly can see a need for ICR and IMR for sure.

Any suggestions? All things being equal I am leaning towards the VC4

What is a good charger for the VC4 that is reasonably priced?


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## thedoc007 (Jul 19, 2015)

les_garten said:


> I am trying to decide between the Xtar VC4 and VP2.



If you plan to keep the Maha, you already have NiMH well covered. 

You said before you don't need the four slots, so I'd definitely go with the VP2. It gives you maximum flexibility (choice of charge currents), and minimum fuss (you don't have to worry about using certain slots for small cells, for example). You also don't have to worry about finding the right USB power supply.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Jul 19, 2015)

I agree with theDoc007. I have the VP2, VC4 and the D4. The VP2 is hands down my favorite. Although it does not do NIMH, it has consistently provided the most accurate charging and longest life of my cells. The D4 consistently overcharges the NIMH, and even though the display on the VC4 was touted as the latest/greatest/etc, the VP2 is better.(as I write this, my preference for the VP2 is mostly subjective), but I would rather charge 2 cells at a time in the VP2 than 4 in theVC4....


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## les_garten (Jul 19, 2015)

thedoc007 said:


> If you plan to keep the Maha, you already have NiMH well covered.
> 
> You said before you don't need the four slots, so I'd definitely go with the VP2. It gives you maximum flexibility (choice of charge currents), and minimum fuss (you don't have to worry about using certain slots for small cells, for example). You also don't have to worry about finding the right USB power supply.





Crazyeddiethefirst said:


> I agree with theDoc007. I have the VP2, VC4 and the D4. The VP2 is hands down my favorite. Although it does not do NIMH, it has consistently provided the most accurate charging and longest life of my cells. The D4 consistently overcharges the NIMH, and even though the display on the VC4 was touted as the latest/greatest/etc, the VP2 is better.(as I write this, my preference for the VP2 is mostly subjective), but I would rather charge 2 cells at a time in the VP2 than 4 in theVC4....



Thanks Gents!


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## kkay (Aug 2, 2015)

outdoorguy82 said:


> Has anyone here tried the Fenix ARE-C2 charger?



I have that charger, and it is very good. I have only used 18650 batteries on it though. I also have the VP2, and I like it a little better.


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## Brett H (Dec 11, 2015)

I am a newbie here and I first want to thank everyone for the info on these chargers. I am interested in a good Li-ion charger and this Xtar VP2 sounds like a great choice. I was wondering if anyone can offer any suggestions as to the best place to buy this charger? I have found one place in particular, but I wanted to make sure I am being respectful of any policies with regards to posting links.


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## ChrisGarrett (Dec 11, 2015)

Brett H said:


> I am a newbie here and I first want to thank everyone for the info on these chargers. I am interested in a good Li-ion charger and this Xtar VP2 sounds like a great choice. I was wondering if anyone can offer any suggestions as to the best place to buy this charger? I have found one place in particular, but I wanted to make sure I am being respectful of any policies with regards to posting links.



Where do you live?

The price has dropped on the VP2, to the point where I see them for ~$35. I paid $51 w/12vdc car adapter when they first came out, from Mountain Electronics in Seattle.

http://www.mtnelectronics.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=79&product_id=188

Chris


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## Brett H (Dec 12, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> Where do you live?
> 
> The price has dropped on the VP2, to the point where I see them for ~$35. I paid $51 w/12vdc car adapter when they first came out, from Mountain Electronics in Seattle.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply Chris. I live in South Florida (just outside of Fort Myers). I found the VP2 for a sale price of $27.92 (listed reg. price is $34.90) with free shipping which is pretty comparable to the price you stated. It says it comes with a US / EU / JP AC adapter as well as the car adapter.


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## Short_Circuit (Dec 12, 2015)

Brett H said:


> Thanks for your reply Chris. I live in South Florida (just outside of Fort Myers). I found the VP2 for a sale price of $27.92 (listed reg. price is $34.90) with free shipping which is pretty comparable to the price you stated. It says it comes with a US / EU / JP AC adapter as well as the car adapter.




Not trying to discourage you from the VP2 if that's what you want but I've found the Nitecore D2 to be an excellent charger for all my 18650's and 14500's and it will do others as well. It's fairly slow as chargers go I think but that doesn't bother me especially as you can get them for $15 on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Nitecor...77db7ab&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=151904529413


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## Brett H (Dec 12, 2015)

Short_Circuit said:


> Not trying to discourage you from the VP2 if that's what you want but I've found the Nitecore D2 to be an excellent charger for all my 18650's and 14500's and it will do others as well. It's fairly slow as chargers go I think but that doesn't bother me especially as you can get them for $15 on ebay
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Nitecor...77db7ab&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=151904529413


Thanks Short Circuit. I really don't yet have my mind set on a specific charger. I am very open to any input provided here and just hope to make the most informed decision I possibly can. My sole reason for considering the VP2 over other chargers mentioned, is with regards to what has been offered on this thread. The consensus on this thread seems to favor the VP2, with the D4 also being a good choice. I know if I go with the VP2, I will need a separate charger for NiMh's, but I must admit that Crazyeddiethefirst's comments about the D4 and the VP2, has me leaning towards the VP2 and a separate NiMh.


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## kellyglanzer (Dec 12, 2015)

VC2 PLUS is the new std now Boyz.


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## 5S8Zh5 (Dec 12, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> The price has dropped on the VP2, to the point where I see them for ~$35. I paid $51 w/12vdc car adapter when they first came out, from Mountain Electronics in Seattle...


I paid $26.79 shipped Jan 16, 2015 from gearbest and got it less than a month later Feb 11.


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## Brett H (Dec 12, 2015)

The one I found claims to be a US distributor called XtarDirect. Does anyone have any experience with this company? Also, in a CPF review on the VP2, it was suggested that a multi-meter would be a good addition to purchasing the VP2. Any suggestions on a brand?


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## kellyglanzer (Dec 12, 2015)

Xtardirect dot Com is great. I have bought there many times.


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## kellyglanzer (Dec 12, 2015)

Seriously guys. Look at the VC2 PLUS.


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## Brett H (Dec 12, 2015)

The VC2 Plus is preferred over the VP2?


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## kellyglanzer (Dec 12, 2015)

TC-CC-CV charging for Li-ion battery and pulse charging for Ni-MH/Ni-CD battery. You can mix and charge all kinds of batteries together.

It is xtar latest and greatest charger. It is also the promoted charger by the boys at Oveready. You can see it on their Web page. That speaks volumes to me.


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## kellyglanzer (Dec 12, 2015)




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## Brett H (Dec 13, 2015)

kellyglanzer said:


> TC-CC-CV charging for Li-ion battery and pulse charging for Ni-MH/Ni-CD battery. You can mix and charge all kinds of batteries together.
> 
> It is xtar latest and greatest charger. It is also the promoted charger by the boys at Oveready. You can see it on their Web page. That speaks volumes to me.



Thanks for the info, I just wish I had inquired sooner! I recently placed an order with Illumination Supply that shipped on Friday and they sell the VC2 for $24. I hope this is not overkill, but I am now thinking of getting both the VP2 and the VC2 Plus, with the VC2 Plus being a dedicated NiMH charger?


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## kreisl (Dec 13, 2015)

kellyglanzer said:


> VC2 PLUS is the new std now Boyz.





kellyglanzer said:


> Xtardirect dot Com is great. I have bought there many times.





kellyglanzer said:


> Seriously guys. Look at the VC2 PLUS.





kellyglanzer said:


> TC-CC-CV charging for Li-ion battery and pulse charging for Ni-MH/Ni-CD battery. You can mix and charge all kinds of batteries together.
> 
> It is xtar latest and greatest charger. It is also the promoted charger by the boys at Oveready. You can see it on their Web page. That speaks volumes to me.





kellyglanzer said:


>



Awesome your enthusiasm for the shop XTARDIRECT, thanks for the strong recommendation!
I have the XTAR MC1 PLUS on order from a Chinese e-vendor. Flexible Liion battery size charging, including 18650's, fast and safe from a USB port? It can't get better than that!! :twothumbs


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## verdum (Dec 13, 2015)

Ordered & received XTAR VP2 and Liitokala 500, Opus 3100 is still on the way. But as far as MC3000 is released I think it will be the only I'll use.


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## markr6 (Dec 13, 2015)

Opus 3100 v2 was $34 on Amazon for the past couple days. Back up to $53 or so. I was temped to get a second one, but was able to talk myself out of it!


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## kreisl (Dec 13, 2015)

verdum said:


> Ordered & received XTAR VP2 and Liitokala 500, Opus 3100 is still on the way. But as far as MC3000 is released I think it will be the only I'll use.


Also welcome on CPF!

I had several C600, C3100, C4000, VP2, XP4, i4, Lii500, WF188. Nice compact chargers. They are now in the homes of their new owners and hopefully get more use there. On my total list of related electronic stuffz i classified them as "_NAK_" :wave:, some of them went dead classified under "_RIP_". 

Tbh these days i am having a blast  with my mc3k test unit but i also decided to keep some small 4-bay lcd mc charger for portability reasons. (secret model, can't disclose, sollie hh)


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## verdum (Dec 13, 2015)

Thanks. I'm not going to sell my current chargers until MC3000 arrived and I'm sure it works great.
Also definitely will stay with some of 1slot chargers like miller ML102 and/or xtar mc1+.
I've also ordered few LiitoKala 100 chargers during the latest sales


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## uofaengr (Dec 14, 2015)

markr6 said:


> Opus 3100 v2 was $34 on Amazon for the past couple days. Back up to $53 or so. I was temped to get a second one, but was able to talk myself out of it!


I saw that too and was very tempted, but decided my D4 is still good enough.


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## HippieTom (Dec 14, 2015)

Hi. Sorry if i post this in a wrong place, but didn't want to make a new thread with this little question. 

I am considering to buy the LG MJ1 3500mah batteries. I have the Nitecore I4 charger, but i dont know if it is a good combo? Are unprotected and high drain cells good to go with my charger?


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## ChrisGarrett (Dec 14, 2015)

HippieTom said:


> Hi. Sorry if i post this in a wrong place, but didn't want to make a new thread with this little question.
> 
> I am considering to buy the LG MJ1 3500mah batteries. I have the Nitecore I4 charger, but i dont know if it is a good combo? Are unprotected and high drain cells good to go with my charger?



Yes, the Nitecore i4 v.2 is more than adequate, if not a bit slow to charge things up. I have an i4 v.2 and while it's not my everyday charger, it works and can run off of a 12vdc solar panel, or a car's cigarette socket, with adapter, in a pinch.

If you charge two of cells up at once, you can get a 750mA charging rate, four will a yield 375mA rate. People who run monster lights, with their typical 4x18650s, or people who vape, might need a higher rate found in the Xtar VP2 and Opus BT 3100/3400 chargers, but 1A is what many chargers have for a high rate.

If you deplete the MJ1s enough and you're charging up four of them at once, it's going to take you a lot of hours, so be aware.

There's a trick to the i4, v2 and it has to do with charging slots and I think it goes something like this:

If you're only doing two cells, bays 1&3, or bays 2&4, will offer up slower overall charging since there is an on/off duty cycle between them. They still charge at the same 750mA rate, but since one is off while the other is on, you get a longer charge duration.

Bays 1&2, 2&3, 3&4 and 1&4 each apply the charge consistently over time during the charge cycle, is how I understand it and finish in less time.

I wrote this info on the back of my i4 in silver Sharpie just to have it handy down the road.

A couple of reviews and Selfbuilt touches upon this in the first review:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...arger-Review-(V2)-current-voltage-comparisons

http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review Charger Nitecore Intellicharger i4 UK.html

Good luck, Chris


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## HippieTom (Dec 14, 2015)

Thanks, Chris. Great info.


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## Brett H (Dec 15, 2015)

I placed an order today for not one, but two Xtar VP2 chargers from Xtar Direct  Thanks to all here who provided some much-needed, qualified input. Now I need to determine what would be most suitable for a NiMH charger.


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## ChrisGarrett (Dec 15, 2015)

Brett H said:


> I placed an order today for not one, but two Xtar VP2 chargers from Xtar Direct  Thanks to all here who provided some much-needed, qualified input. Now I need to determine what would be most suitable for a NiMH charger.



It's a good solid charger that has come down in price since I first bought mine.

There are other chargers that do more, but the VP2, especially in tandem, is quite flexible.

Pretty much any of the three chemistries/voltages can be charged up and with the three charging rates, any cell from a 10440-26650 can be safely charged.

Plus, they come with a 12vdc car adapter.

Chris


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## Brett H (Dec 15, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> It's a good solid charger that has come down in price since I first bought mine.
> 
> There are other chargers that do more, but the VP2, especially in tandem, is quite flexible.
> 
> ...





Thanks Chris,

Sounds like exactly what I am looking for in my first charger. I tend to favor simple functionality and reliability. Now I need to do some searching here and determine the most suitable charger for the Eneloops that USPS will hopefully be delivering soon.


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## hauer (Dec 16, 2015)

richardcpf said:


> +1 on the Xtar VP2. As of now it is one of the best 18650 charger available.
> 
> As for batteries, any protected cell based on the Panasonic 18650 3400mAh is considered very good.
> 
> Of course there are other good chargers and batteries in the market but I think these two offers the best quality and value for the money, you can't go wrong.



Thanks for your recommended. I've used Xtar VP2 for a year and it is still work well


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## markr6 (Dec 16, 2015)

Still loving the Opus 3100. Just topped off some NCR18650GA in a hurry at 1500mA. Could have done 2000mA but Sanyo's standard charge for this cell is 1675mA so figured I would stay under that.

I also ran a charge-test overnight on three 18650B cells that were made in 2013 and 2014. All between 3378mAh and 3386mAh. Good stuff!


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## Brett H (Dec 17, 2015)

markr6 said:


> Still loving the Opus 3100. Just topped off some NCR18650GA in a hurry at 1500mA. Could have done 2000mA but Sanyo's standard charge for this cell is 1675mA so figured I would stay under that.
> 
> I also ran a charge-test overnight on three 18650B cells that were made in 2013 and 2014. All between 3378mAh and 3386mAh. Good stuff!




Do you like the Opus 3100 equally as well for charging NiMH batteries?


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## markr6 (Dec 17, 2015)

Brett H said:


> Do you like the Opus 3100 equally as well for charging NiMH batteries?



I hardly use it for them. The few times I did, I didn't have any problems. But for NiMH I typically use my MAHA 801D since it's nice and easy for up to 8 cells. I don't really care about the numbers anymore since Eneloops hold their capacity well over the years.


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## ven (Dec 17, 2015)

Brett H said:


> Do you like the Opus 3100 equally as well for charging NiMH batteries?




I have charged my loops on the opus a few times issue free, all good


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## KeepingItLight (Dec 17, 2015)

I bought the *Opus BT-C700*, which is a dedicated NiMH/NiCd charger/analyzer. It won't do Li-ion.

It is pretty cheap these days, and got good a review from HKJ. When I compared that review with HKJ's review of the *Opus BT-C3100 v2.2*, I concluded that the C700 did a better job with NiMH. I can't remember the details anymore, so check both reviews.

For Li-ion, the mini-review by Bill Cushman led me to believe that the *LiitoKala Engineer Lii-500* would be my pick over the C3100. I have never used either.

At present, the *Nitecore DigiCharger D4* is all I have for Li-ion. It does not have any analyzer functions. The only reason I purchased it is because Illumn did not have any Xtar models on the day I was a walk-in customer. The D4 gets the job done, and can display voltage, current, and mAh for each of its four channels.

After the software is fixed, I will take a long look at the *SkyRC MC3000* analyzer. It will be hard to resist.


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## markr6 (Dec 17, 2015)

I was about to get an Xtar VC2 Plus today as a travel charger (2 slots for NiMH or Li-Ion), but the lack of a voltage readout killed the deal. That time remaining is stupid. I like a voltage readout so I can check voltage instead of lugging around a DMM in a pinch.


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## Brett H (Dec 17, 2015)

KeepingItLight said:


> I bought the *Opus BT-C700*, which is a dedicated NiMH/NiCd charger/analyzer. It won't do Li-ion.
> 
> It is pretty cheap these days, and got good a review from HKJ. When I compared that review with HKJ's review of the *Opus BT-C3100 v2.2*, I concluded that the C700 did a better job with NiMH. I can't remember the details anymore, so check both reviews.
> 
> ...





Much appreciated info KeepingItLight and a Joe Bonamassa fan as well!! I just received two Xtar VP2s today from Xtar Direct; some amazingly fast service I might add (3 days from order date - California to Florida)! Since the VP2s charge Li-Ion, a dedicated NiMH such as this would be perfect for my needs.


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## KeepingItLight (Dec 17, 2015)

Brett H said:


> Much appreciated info KeepingItLight and a Joe Bonamassa fan as well!!



Yeah, the version of Forever Young I have linked right now in my signature is one of my favorites. By the time the second chorus comes around you realize the vocalists have something special going on, and then Joe powers into a tasteful solo where he stays on the melody, and avoids overplaying. 

Very nice stuff.


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## Brett H (Dec 20, 2015)

*Opus BT-C700 *is on the way and to arrive tomorrow. Thanks for the input KeepinItLight!


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## djdawg (Dec 20, 2015)

I take it that of post in this thread , that the Pila charger is still a recommended charger ??


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## KeepingItLight (Dec 21, 2015)

djdawg said:


> I take it that of post in this thread , that the Pila charger is still a recommended charger ??



I hope you will check back in after you have used it a few times. Let us know what you think.

Enjoy!


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## l0h (Dec 21, 2015)

Please forgive me for may be an obvious (or stupid) question. I am new to the world of Li-Ion rechargeable batteries. Until now I used the regular batteries in my light, but finally decided to look at cost effective option.

I just received a brand new Xtar VP2 charger and two brand new 18650 Nitecore NL188 (3200 mAh, 3.7V) batteries as a gift.
http://charger.nitecore.com/product/18650-li-ion-battery-nl188

Last night, following the instruction that came with VP2 charger, I moved the voltage option switch to the middle (to choose 3.6V voltage option) and chose the 0.25A as a charge current setting. Connected VP2 to the power and installed two Nitecore batteries in to the slots. Then I left it charging overnight .

In the morning I found that the red led became green (indicates that the charge is complete). That was a good sign.
But I was surprised to see the reading on the VP2 display. For both slots it showed *4.19*V.
Again, maybe I am missing something or/and reading this incorrectly, but my assumption was that the charge on that battery should be *3.7*V.

Does it mean that VP2 is overcharging my batteries? I really want to believe that it is not the case and I am just wrong.

May I ask the experts to explain this situation or/and point to what I understand/did wrong.

Kind Regards,
l0h


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## JB (Dec 22, 2015)

l0h said:


> In the morning I found that the red led became green (indicates that the charge is complete). That was a good sign.
> But I was surprised to see the reading on the VP2 display. For both slots it showed *4.19*V.
> Again, maybe I am missing something or/and reading this incorrectly, but my assumption was that the charge on that battery should be *3.7*V.
> 
> Does it mean that VP2 is overcharging my batteries? I really want to believe that it is not the case and I am just wrong.



Hi, 4.20V is the correct termination voltage for a 18650 battery. Secondly, after a period of rest (after finished charging) it is normal to see the voltage drop very slightly - hence you saw the reading of 4.19V.

3.7V is the nominal voltage of the battery. It does not mean the fully charged voltage. Basically, your VP2 charger is working perfectly (and it is a very good charger).

Also, in future you can use 1.00A current to charge the 18650. Using 0.25A means it will take a long time to fully charge.


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## ven (Dec 22, 2015)

+1

1a all the way for 18650's , .25 will take for ever !!!


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## Milw light (Dec 24, 2015)

ChrisGarrett said:


> I buy from these guys:
> 
> http://www.illumn.com/batteries-chargers-and-powerpax-carriers/batteries.html?___store=default
> 
> ...


Possible big problem there. I ordered Panasonic NCR18650B's & they took a real long time to arrive. They were advertised as made in Japan. When I got em the battery said made in Japan & the little battery boxes said made in China. I think they are counterfeit, the + top is slightly different than known original batteries. They had 3.6 volts & charged right up. BTW, I think the batteries were shipped from China.


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## ven (Dec 24, 2015)

Any pics? i have not seen any fake pany B cells tbh, sure some or maybe even all pany are now made in china or a factory was being built to support demand! stand to be corrected of course. Just recall reading about it some time back...........

Also as pretty much everything is made in china, there would be no real reason to doubt because the box has come from there.............imo anyway.


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## bbb74 (Dec 24, 2015)

Milw light said:


> Possible big problem there. I ordered Panasonic NCR18650B's & they took a real long time to arrive. They were advertised as made in Japan. When I got em the battery said made in Japan & the little battery boxes said made in China. I think they are counterfeit, the + top is slightly different than known original batteries. They had 3.6 volts & charged right up. BTW, I think the batteries were shipped from China.


Maybe the boxes were made in china?

I've only just received my first 18650s - keepower Panasonic ga's. They said assembled in china from cell and protection circuit made in Japan.


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## ateupwithgolf (Dec 29, 2015)

I have an Olight M3XS-UT on the way with 4 Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh cells (got these from Mtn Electronics). Two questions. 1. Should these fit? 2. I have a Nitecore i2 (2014) version that I paid $9.99 for. Would anyone recommend a VP2 charger over what I have and if so, why? Thanks!


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## LightMagic (Dec 29, 2015)

I use Nitecore D4. Works fine. Like the lcd display vs those cheap "ultrafire" that i have been using Haha


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## ChrisGarrett (Dec 29, 2015)

ateupwithgolf said:


> I have an Olight M3XS-UT on the way with 4 Panasonic NCR18650B Protected 3400mAh cells (got these from Mtn Electronics). Two questions. 1. Should these fit? 2. I have a Nitecore i2 (2014) version that I paid $9.99 for. Would anyone recommend a VP2 charger over what I have and if so, why? Thanks!



I'm using a VP2 as I type. It's a nice, but dated charger. Very flexible for most all li-ion types and sizes going forward. Can't go wrong if you want to spend the $35 on it.

The NC i2 works, but is slower.

Chris


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## ven (Dec 30, 2015)

As Chris said, off the top of my head! voltage read out, 0.25/0.5/1a charge(latter quicker charging) settings for both bays, then 4.35v support if/when needed. Better build and still a nice simple display and UI via a single button. 

I dont have an i2, i have an i4...........its been stashed away now for..............a long time! no contest imho, chalk and cheese but for cheap safe charger, the i2 makes a great choice compared to some stuff out there!!! 

Other than the advantage of quicker charge times over the i2, its the V read out that sold it to me..........so useful!!

Its always a good idea imo to have more than one charger, for an obvious reason(failure) but maybe a place of work as well as home uses(save having to take it with you as an example).


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## BuildingSerenity (Dec 30, 2015)

I just have to figure out the voltages and amp settings for my batteries...


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## fractal (Dec 30, 2015)

There is no such thing as the perfect charger. It is all about what is important to you.

I was going to buy a VP2 until I noticed it had switches and I did not want to have to deal with fiddling with the charger just charge some batteries. The voltage display would be nice.

I bought an I4. It is almost as fast as the VP2 when charging one or two batteries and I rarely (never so far, but never say never) have charged more than two at a time. It will also charge two x 28650 batteries at a time, not that I have ever charged more than one at a time.

So, while the vp2 can charge three different types of batteries at three different rates and has a nicer display, the i4 will charge two almost as fast and can charge four batteries if you are not in any hurry. It will also charge two 28650's at a time if that is important to you. And, most importantly to me, you just plug it in and go with no buttons and switches to fiddle. All you have to remember is to use the two outside slots if charging two batteries. Not too hard to remember since that also provides the best cooling.


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## ckeilah (Apr 21, 2016)

I just bought a Nitecore D4 (like the i4 but with a digital display) for silly cheap (about $25 delivered) compared to what we used to pay for chargers in the early 2000s. I can hardly imaging how a charger could get better than this little guy, at least for 18650s, and the usual AA ni(cad/mh) cells. I may change my tune after having used it for a while, but it's great so far: charges four 3Ah 18650s in ~4hrs, shows stats on the charging and batteries during and after charging, takes up little space and doesn't require a wall-wart. I need to marry 3 cells for one of my devices, so this works much better than a 2-cell charger.


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## billcoe (Apr 21, 2016)

Nice^^. It looks like the Nitecore D4 is relentlessly knocked off. Near identical packaging. You might check on that screaming deal. Some details here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/44203


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## Animalmother (Apr 21, 2016)

How is this charger?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KW2ZDHQ/?tag=cpf0b6-20

i ordered that one before I researched, something I rarely do.


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## ChrisGarrett (Apr 21, 2016)

Animalmother said:


> How is this charger?
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KW2ZDHQ/?tag=cpf0b6-20
> 
> i ordered that one before I researched, something I rarely do.



They're decent, capable, inexpensive chargers, but they're not revolutionary in any regard.

Kind of like vanilla ice cream. When it's good, it's very good, but it's not winning any culinary award.

Chris


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## Animalmother (Apr 21, 2016)

A long as is it charges good without over charging of harming the battery I am a happy camper. I don't need a illuminated blue screen or fancy futures. Unless I'm missing something in charger logic. Good example by the way lol.


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## swan (Apr 22, 2016)

A very good charger i can recommend is a Liitokala lii 500 4 bay charger which i am very happy with and only cost $27 from fasttech.
It can charge all 4 cells at 1 amp and has a digital readout for cell capacity and test modes, volts, time on charge, resistance values and charge current can be set from 300- 1000 mA which i think for the price is hard to beat.
And for some good value cells i picked up 4 x genuine 18650 sanyo ncr18650bf at $17 they are great value which i use in my larger lights and use my more expensive ncr ga,s for my zl sc600 mk3. In case anyone is wondering all the cells i have purchased from fasttech have all been genuine which include panasonics,sanyo awt nitecore and jetbeam.


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## markr6 (Apr 22, 2016)

The D2 and D4 chargers are just TOO SLOW. I could get by with a 700mA setting, but 1000mA is key. They have neither. 325mA or 500mA is a deal breaker. Usually I'm not in a rush, but why not just get it done and over with. 1A is nowhere "hard" on a battery either, so no argument there.


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## Animalmother (Apr 22, 2016)

markr6 said:


> The D2 and D4 chargers are just TOO SLOW. I could get by with a 700mA setting, but 1000mA is key. They have neither. 325mA or 500mA is a deal breaker. Usually I'm not in a rush, but why not just get it done and over with. 1A is nowhere "hard" on a battery either, so no argument there.



Thanks for clearing that up, I don't mind the wait but I really appreciated the input, it's exactly what I wanted to hear. I thought was more to the way they charge then just being slow(like overcharging or discharging on cheap chargers). I already bought the D2 as I didn't know better but as long as it's functions good I don't mind any performance boosts. I just don't care much for faster charging unless it's a 5000mah 11.1v Lipo brick then i will start to give notice. Thanks again friend.


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## gvp9000 (May 8, 2016)

Just received my first 18650 charger after reading this thread.
It's a xtar vp2 charger.

Very useful feature the 1A charging.
Very fast charging.

Thank you all.


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## verytom (Oct 20, 2016)

I bought an XTAR VC4 based on the review I saw here
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?400085-Test-Review-of-Charger-Xtar-VC4/

The charger and box ETC all looks the same as the review except that the XTAR logo on the charger itself is larger than the one pictured in the review.
The first thing that surprised me is that it charges only, there is no capability to cycle or test the batteries.

I put in 4x partially charged 18650's and they started to charge, after a few hours I checked on the cells and they were very hot, too hot to handle, a checked the voltage and a couple were at 4.22V (charged showed 4.2V) and the charger was still putting 0.5A into them, the other two were at 4.13V (charger showed 4.1V) being charged at 0.5A and pretty hot also. So the charger appears to be getting the voltage right but isn't it supposed to throttle down the current when the cells get above 4V?

I'm wondering if mine is fake or if all the XTAR's are like this of if mine is a fake?

Any recommendation for a better charger that does 4x NIMH and LiIon cells from AAA to 18650 and preferably has at least a disccharge/charge test cycle?


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## HKJ (Oct 20, 2016)

I wonder why you say yo buy based on the review and then is surprised when it is charge only? Did you measure to see that the charger was using 0.5A, the review explains that the current dial shows maximum charge current, not actual charge current.
The only batteries that gets hot on the charger is usual damaged batteries.


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## ven (Oct 20, 2016)

verytom said:


> Any recommendation for a better charger that does 4x NIMH and LiIon cells from AAA to 18650 and preferably has at least a disccharge/charge test cycle?



Opus bt c3100 v2.2 / 3400 does all you want, good value as well.


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## tatasal (Oct 20, 2016)

ven said:


> Opus bt c3100 v2.2 / 3400 does all you want, good value as well.



I just saw the Opus v2.2 BT-C3100 is right now in a flash sale at Gearbest for $29.99.


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## Lexel (Oct 20, 2016)

Read my thread about fake nitecore chargers 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...hargers-even-in-very-big-stores-D4-and-others

Panasonic NCR18650B with PCB can be ordered for less than 5$ a cell here, choose location USA
http://www.gearbest.com/batteries/pp_189833.html?wid=21

I vote for the Klarus CH4S or Xtar VP2 as they can charge 3.2, 3.7 and 3.8V batteries
http://lygte-info.dk/review/Review%20Charger%20Klarus%20CH4s%20UK.html


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## verytom (Oct 20, 2016)

I probably should have digested the full review rather than just look at the pretty graphs and the conclusion. Good point I didnt meaure the current, i was quite keen on getting the batteries out of the charger.
I guess i was just expecting similar features to the Nicad/NiMH accu charger i have which has temp sensors and test/refresh functions as that is about 10 years old now.
The cells may be a bit damaged, i am trying to assess/recycle a bunch of cells harvested from computer battery packs. The Xtar appears to be quite useful for putting some initial charge in a cell that has been sitting around for too long, i might end up keeping it just for that as other charges tend to refuse to do this
I have just bought the opus so i will see how i go with that one.


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## tripplec (Oct 21, 2016)

SureAddicted said:


> That is for the H2 charger, not H4.
> Also have never had an issue with Soshine 18650s, 3100 and 3400.
> I also don't agree with some of the things HKJ says in that review, he goes on to say that charging a 2000 mAh eneloop only charges at 1000 mAh, and states that "this is not very good".
> I highly disagree with him on that point, I have charged eneloops at 2A, they came off the charger red hot, way too hot to handle and I'm positive that decreased cycle life by a fair margin.



I have the Soshine H4 charger, and yes I saw his review. Of the three chargers I have I use it 99.9% of the time now for Eneloops AA & AAA as well as 18650's and never experience any issues including overheating which the I328 always overheats my ennloops unless the charge is set not more than 500mA rate. I don't trust it at all. I keep it should I want to analyse and refresh capacity which I haven't used for since I bought that charge. NOT RECOMMENDING the IQ-328 but the H4 is very very good. Reviews are fine but what works well is what counts and it does work very well. Been using it for 2 years at least now.

Oh don't waste your money on a 2 cell charger. A 4 cell is a must have!!


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## verytom (Nov 9, 2016)

I ended up getting an Opus v2.2 BT-C3100 and for me it is definitely worth the slightly higher cost than the XTAR VC4. The Opus comes with a proper mains adapter, can charge or discharge 4 channels at 1A (2 channels at 2A), and has test/refresh functions, it also shows the information i want e.g., actual current etc. It means I can give away my old accucell a700bc to a friend whereas with the XTAR I'd be inclined to keep the accucell for AA/AAA NiMH cells.

The XTAR can only charge 2 channels at 1A, 4 channels it drops to 0.5A, the discharge current is even less than the charge current I believe. I also find the display pretty annoying, it's nice that they try to get the current/voltage/ and capacity all displayed at the same time but I much prefer to see actual digits rather than indicative dials, plus only 2 channels are displayed at one time. Furthermore the XTAR charges only, there is no facility to discharge, cycle or test the cells. It comes with no mains adapter, just a (nice) cable USB cable which you need to plug into a 2A phone charger which you hopefully already own.

I like the bag that comes with the XTAR though, I'm going to keep it as the Opus fits nicely inside it 

IMHO both the Opus and especially the XTAR are too aggressive with how much current they push in to the cells at the end of the charge cycle as I am finding some cells can get pretty hot towards the end of the charge cycle. In comparison my SkyRC D100 charger, drops off the current more when the cells get above 4V so even if charging at 1.5A the cells do not get hot.


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## HEDP (Nov 28, 2016)

markr6 said:


> The D2 and D4 chargers are just TOO SLOW. I could get by with a 700mA setting, but 1000mA is key. They have neither. 325mA or 500mA is a deal breaker. Usually I'm not in a rush, but why not just get it done and over with. 1A is nowhere "hard" on a battery either, so no argument there.




So what would you recommend?


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## HEDP (Nov 28, 2016)

billcoe said:


> Nice^^. It looks like the Nitecore D4 is relentlessly knocked off. Near identical packaging. You might check on that screaming deal. Some details here: http://budgetlightforum.com/node/44203




Shoot, mine looks like the fake one. But I ordered it in Aug 2015...... 



Mines for sure a fake then?


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## MNDan (Jan 10, 2017)

The picture on their website shows the power plugin port as a match for the fake one, so who knows???

http://charger.nitecore.com/product/digicharger-d4


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## markr6 (Jan 10, 2017)

I'm pretty trusting and feel like I'll never get a fake charger. But I do like how Xtar has the scratch-off code which you can use to validate online and make sure it's authentic.


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## xdayv (Jan 18, 2017)

MNDan said:


> The picture on their website shows the power plugin port as a match for the fake one, so who knows???
> 
> http://charger.nitecore.com/product/digicharger-d4




+1. So if it's the one in the official website, how come it will be the fake version? :thinking:


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