# 2000 watt short arc



## Davekan (Dec 19, 2012)

The price on the 2000w bulb is a lot less than I thought. I think I just may put this in a 16" reflector abd see what it does.
Bulb link http://stage-engineering.ru/sites/default/files/device_additional_files/imported/osram_xstage.pdf

The reflector is Optiforms P-60 with 2.5 inch hole. 16" dia, 60mm fl.


I think this will be very bright, though not portable..

Thanks Dave


----------



## BVH (Dec 19, 2012)

What are you going to use to ignite and power the lamp? Be sure to employ personal safety when handling the lamp. There's probably at least 60 PSI inside when cold and many hundreds of PSI when running. Don't let the UV burn you.


----------



## Davekan (Dec 19, 2012)

I may go with deep cycle lead acid. It would be pure dc, the voltage would be just about right for short runs. Perhaps 4 of them 2s 2p.


----------



## BVH (Dec 19, 2012)

Not sure about your reply. You'll need a constant current, 2000 Watt Arc Lamp power supply with ignitor to ignite and power up the lamp. Do you have one?


----------



## Davekan (Dec 19, 2012)

I do have ignitor. The lamp does not need exactly 23 v. I may get a proper lamp supply, if the price is not crazy.
the ones I hve seen cost $ 4000. That is a complete joke.


----------



## BVH (Dec 19, 2012)

The lamp needs precision delivered constant current once it's warmed up and it needs a temporary boost of power during warm up. You will not be be able to drive the lamp directly from batteries nor from a conventional DC power supply. Look on Ebay for Arc Lamp Supplies but I've never seen one over 1000 Watts.


----------



## Davekan (Dec 19, 2012)

Well, thats the answer I was waiting for. My only choise is a proper lamp power supply. Thanks for clearing that up BVH, before
I bought the wrong stuff. I ill get a Xenon lamp power supply, big enough for that lamp. You are saving my time and money.

Dave


----------



## get-lit (Dec 19, 2012)

Davekan said:


> I do have ignitor. The lamp does not need exactly 23 v. I may get a proper lamp supply, if the price is not crazy.
> the ones I hve seen cost $ 4000. That is a complete joke.



That sounds about right. It costs that much because Xenon lamps require expensive components to handle all of the operating requirements. Xenon lamps are low voltage with high current that must be regulated. It's the high current regulating components that are expensive. Additionally there are various boost phases that a separate booster circuit must handle during and after ignition from a separate ignitor. All three components must work in conjunction with each other, perfectly timed, without frying each other, and so there's also components to keep them isolated to just their function. If you take a look at Osram's "Guidelines for Power Supplies and Igniters" (FO GL-10), you'll see how much planning and work is put into Xenon power supplies. There's only a few companies out there that can get it right. Your best bet is to watch ebay for a used one. Sometimes you can get one for under a grand. The voltage of the lamp should not be altered, as it's optimized for the dosage of voltage carrying elements within the lamp in conjunction with gap. It doesn't take much variance from the required power supply criteria to greatly shorten the life of the lamp, cause arc instability, or damage the lamp outright. Those Xstage lamps cant be beat.


----------



## Davekan (Dec 19, 2012)

I have just read this, and now I know why. http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/documents/ENGR_BLTN11.161355cc-1d94-4996-b6cd-a3001fea6f1a.pdf

Thanks for all the insite. 

Dave


----------



## BVH (Dec 19, 2012)

The Voltage the lamp ends up "requiring"/running at is the sum of 3 main factors. Arc gap, gas fill composition and gas fill pressure. Learned that from the guys at A.R.C. I sincerely wish you luck in finding a 2KW supply. I look on ebay pretty much daily and have been for at least 8 months at arc lamp supplies and I've not seen one yet over 1KW. Be sure not to get one for Mercury or Mercury Xenon if you're going to use that particular pure Xenon lamp. Most supplies are specific for one or the other but there are some "universal" units for both. Also, most of the newer supplies (1985 and newer) do not have built-in ignitors. The ignitors ended up in the separate lamp housings.

This is the 1KW supply I ended up getting off ebay recently. It even came with a 450 Watt lamp as a bonus! Got it for $1050 to my door.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oriel-66022...056?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item460a9595a8

For scale, the lamp housing is about 19" tall.

I should also mention that many of the 1980's supplies are advertised as 208-220Volt AC input but their T1 transformers are multi input-tap and can usually be changed to 230 and or 240 Volt AC by moving one of the main input leads that comes off the on/off breaker to a different input tap. Not an arc lamp supply, but I just got a Sorensen 40V/70 Amp variable DC supply that is rated up to 230V input based on multiple T1 taps. I took a chance and carefully tried it on my 240 Volt service and it is working fine. I have it set for its' max of 230 Volt input.


----------



## Davekan (Dec 20, 2012)

Sure looks like a good score you got there. I like the Xstage 2000w bulb because of the universal burning position, and super high brightness. I do not want to get a power supply that takes
3ph power, and the big ones all do. There is a crazy 500 watt bulb that may work well with your new purchase. Osram xbo 500w rc ofr it has 260000/cm^2

Dave


----------



## get-lit (Dec 20, 2012)

Yep, that's de facto dream lamp for CP with Xenon.


----------



## BVH (Dec 20, 2012)

Is there an equivalent/similar version in 1000 Watt?

EDIT: I see there is nothing close to it.


----------



## get-lit (Dec 21, 2012)

I don't think the XBO 500 W/RC OFR has been available for a long time now. The Ushio PN# 5000362 is same lamp, but with 1200 hours instead of 200.


----------



## BVH (Dec 21, 2012)

I did some searching yesterday and you're right, no joy out there for that lamp.


----------



## nealitc (Jan 3, 2013)

An option (that would require some engineering) would be to use (one or more) switching supplies, could do this in current-limited configuration instead of ballast, you would need to build the ignitor (isolator) and boost circuits. The MeanWell 2.4Kw and 3Kw single-phase units are <$500 new.


----------



## get-lit (Jan 3, 2013)

You have links to those current limiting converters? The Meanwell website is atrocious, everything's just all batched together as a series of articles, can't find a damn thing on there.


----------



## nealitc (Jan 3, 2013)

Sorry, don't have specific reference handy - saw some examples for Li battery charging systems using MeanWell supplies. Those guys (I think e-bike and RC mainly) also modded the supplies for limiting, reverse engineering complete schematics. Without mod to supply, may be able to use the remote voltage sense and load sharing leads within some ranges, though experimentation would be requires, as you state the doc sux. Fun! (For now, I'm buried in TVS-3s and old 400Hz gen sets...)


----------



## Davekan (Jan 3, 2013)

For now I have sent out some emails to proper manufactures. The newer ones weigh much less than the old Irem, and Strong that I
have seen. The old ones can be had for $ 1000 or less, but weigh 200+ lbs. I do not want a power supply that I can't lift over my head.
There is a guy on youtube, That ran a 1000 watt bulb with a cheap arc welder. See link.
http://benkrasnow.blogspot.ca/2010/10/diy-searchlight-housing-for-1000w-xenon.html

Perhaps a much better arc welder will work. The one he used cost only $ 100.


Anyways I wait for my sent out price requests.

Dave


----------



## Davekan (Jan 4, 2013)

How about this http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-in-1-STAH...Inverter-Welding-Machine-Welder-/370630495958

It will put out 140 amps all day.

Dave


----------



## Davekan (Mar 6, 2016)

Great news. I have managed to get a proper 3000 watt short arc power supply. For now I have ordered a new 2000 watt bulb from the bay for cheap. I will use it for testing. If that works well, I will
then get Xstage 2000, or 3000 watt bulb for some serious cp.

Dave


----------



## FRITZHID (Mar 6, 2016)

And only in 3 years since the last post! Congrats, hope your project comes to fruition! <subscribed>


----------



## Davekan (Mar 7, 2016)

Yes there has been some procrastination, but the project will move quickly now, as I have the supply now. I do have spider, and 3 axis focus ready. Also Aximax for cooling.

Dave


----------



## FRITZHID (Mar 7, 2016)

Cool! Looking forward to your build


----------



## PolarLi (Mar 7, 2016)

Thanks for the update! I think your future looks bright :naughty:


----------



## Davekan (Apr 6, 2016)

Here is the new 2500 watt bulb.






[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## get-lit (Apr 7, 2016)

That lamp is only 230mm long and no anode base.. What lamp is that?


----------



## FRITZHID (Apr 7, 2016)

get-lit said:


> That lamp is only 230mm long and no anode base.. What lamp is that?



I was wondering that as well. Never seen a non-capped SA bulb before.


----------



## PolarLi (Apr 7, 2016)

Me too... Certainly an interesting lamp! I have never seen a single ended xenon that big. Seems to be a pretty short arc too.


----------



## get-lit (Apr 7, 2016)

I've seen single ended lamps without anode base by ASL but only up to 2200W. I'd been interested in these lamps by ASL, being so small and lightweight for this output, but I'd been weary of threads about reliability.

EDIT.. I see there is a single ended 3000W by ASL. Also that looks like an Osram base. It's quite the mystery lamp.


----------



## Davekan (Apr 7, 2016)

I fell out my chair when I saw this. I looks like a giant UHP bulb. Anyways it has S-90 burn position, and very small gap for this wattage.

Here is the make of the bulb. Also called Osram xbo 2500W HY PER





[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## PolarLi (Apr 7, 2016)

Davekan said:


> I fell out my chair when I saw this.



I can see why. Looks like quite the unique lamp to say the least!


----------



## get-lit (Apr 7, 2016)

Ah is was an Osram base. I saw this one on ebay but couldn't find info about it anywhere and didn't see it was single ended because in the photos it was in the protective wrap. Any idea what the arc gap and current control range is?

EDIT.. Found a spec sheet for a XBO 2200 W/HP OFR and it compares well to the XStage 2000W. Same arc gap and nominal lumen output as the XStage 2000W, 10% less efficient, and 10% less peak operating current but it's a 40% smaller lamp.

Appears to be a series. I'd like to find out more about these lamps...
XBO 1200 W/HP OFR
XBO 1600 W/HP OFR
XBO 2000 W/HP OFR
XBO 2200 W/HP OFR (Spec Sheet)
XBO 2500 W/HP OFR
XBO 2900 W/HP OFR (Spec Sheet)
XBO 3000 W/HP OFR

2500W is probably the highest being single ended.


----------



## Davekan (Apr 8, 2016)

The gap is 3.6 mm. Here is the service card.





[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## get-lit (Apr 8, 2016)

These combinations of arc gap and peak current make these the second most intense series of Xenon lamps right after XStage. Small size compared to lamps in this output range. I'm surprised I hadn't come across these before. Excellent find!


----------



## Davekan (Apr 8, 2016)

I guess the best part, in this case is the cost per luman. 100000 lumans for $ 20.

Dave


----------



## get-lit (Apr 9, 2016)

The lamp is like tires on a car. Power supply/igniter is $$$$


----------



## Davekan (Apr 9, 2016)

Just setting the focus limits, Would 10 mm total be enough, and should I bias it a 60/40 toward the vertex. Note the reflector has 60 mm focal length.
The 10 mm travel is for Z travel axis. 


Thanks Dave


----------



## get-lit (Apr 9, 2016)

Generally allow enough focus adjustment to accommodate the housing's construction tolerance plus the lamp's construction tolerance. 10mm seems enough. But extra on the Z axis, just in case. If the extra on the Z axis overly complicates the alignment configuration, stick with 10mm adjustment range but with the adjustment range centered further into the reflector and use shims to bring the Z-axis adjustment range out as needed. This is not a standard of any sort but I think a nice simple solution. This solves the issue of larger adjustment ranges affecting finite precision adjustment ability.


----------



## PolarLi (Apr 10, 2016)

Did you mean focus stop for initial lamp alignment? For that 10 mm sounds good. Of course, that depends how close to focal point you manage to get the lamp on the first try.
Now, If you plan to defocus the light as an feature, I actually used 10 mm focus offset in my 60 mm focal length, 14" reflector, and lamp with similar arc gap. That was enough to go from pin point, to a big donut.


----------



## Davekan (Apr 10, 2016)

Thanks for the input guys. I will be able to get the tip of the cathode very close to the focal point right from the start. It will be controlled by 3 small stepper motors on a 3 axis stage taken from a Zeiss microscope. All the travel limits have to have mechanical limits to prevent damage to the bulb. The X-Y will be +- 3 mm, and the Z will be +- 5 mm.


Thanks Dave


----------



## get-lit (Apr 10, 2016)

I'd tossed around idea of the 3 axis steppers. Very cool.


----------



## Davekan (Apr 10, 2016)

To be honest, the decision was easy. I do not want my hands near the running bulb. Also filtered air will be in that area, and I don't want any holes back there. I will post some pictures soon. It looks like a giant Maxa Beam. I think will call it Maxa Monster. It will have a huge umbilical cord though.

Dave


----------



## Davekan (Apr 22, 2016)

This is my new 3 axis stage. It is much smaller than the microscope one I was going to use.


----------



## FRITZHID (Apr 22, 2016)

Davekan said:


> This is my new 3 axis stage. It is much smaller than the microscope one I was going to use.



Nice! Those 3 axis micro tables are sweet.


----------

