# looks like the dbs is still the king of throw



## grass disaster (Sep 14, 2008)

i can't believe it's been able to hold on for this long.


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## Gator762 (Sep 14, 2008)

grass disaster said:


> i can't believe it's been able to hold on for this long.



Umm, OK :drunk:

You have anything to back up your claim? You have the new MRV sidekick and DBS V2?


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## alex_ny (Sep 14, 2008)

Gator762 said:


> Umm, OK :drunk:
> 
> You have anything to back up your claim? You have the new MRV sidekick and DBS V2?


 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/207469


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 14, 2008)

1 review is a bit too early to call it over.

Give it a little more time, then perhaps so.


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## LukeA (Sep 14, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> 1 review is a bit too early to call it over.
> 
> Give it a little more time, then perhaps so.



Is the MRV SK going to get brighter?


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 14, 2008)

Yep







No not really.


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## WadeF (Sep 14, 2008)

It's pretty easy people. The DBS clearly has a larger reflector. They both use Cree Q5's at 1.2A. How can the MRV SK beat the DBS with a smaller reflector? I'm surprised it beats a Tiablo A9, but it probably edges out the Tiablo because the Tiablo is 1A I believe, the MRV 1.2A.

I got lucky when I decided to pass on the MRV, Tiablo, and go for the DBS. If I had bought the MRV and Tiablo first, I would have had to buy the DBS too.  Still waiting for something to beat it, then I'll have to consider picking it up.


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## DArklite (Sep 15, 2008)

Glad I went for a DBS too.
Looks like the Sidekick needs some further quality control after reading that review.


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## tricker (Sep 15, 2008)

NO, the rapidfire spear still is and always has been so.....sorry to burst your bubble

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190999


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## DArklite (Sep 15, 2008)

tricker said:


> NO, the rapidfire spear still is and always has been so.....sorry to burst your bubble
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190999



The DBS was running on a Q4 in that test. With a Q5 it smoked the Spear.
Well, the RaidFire Spear, anyway.. is this Rapidfire spear a new bubble-bursting secret weapon?


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## WadeF (Sep 15, 2008)

tricker said:


> NO, the rapidfire spear still is and always has been so.....sorry to burst your bubble
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190999


 
I think that was a DBS v1 with the non-AR lens and a Q4. The DBS v2 has a AR coated lens. I have the DBS v2 and it out peforms my Spear slightly with a Q5, and a bit more with the Dereelight limited R2 pill. Hopefully Dereelight will be able to source more R2's in the future. In addition to throw I find the DBS much more comfortable to carry, thanks to the pocket clip, and more comfortable in hand and in operation. 

Considering Dereelight will continue to put out updated pills I don't see how these other throwers will ever beat it unless they go with a larger reflector or optic.


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## ergotelis (Sep 15, 2008)

DBS V1 does not have an AR coated lens?
I should buy one i guess!


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## WadeF (Sep 15, 2008)

ergotelis said:


> DBS V1 does not have an AR coated lens?
> I should buy one i guess!


 
At some point some of the DBS v1's may have started shipping with AR lenses. It may depend on when you got your DBS v1. I think the AR lenses were available around the time the DBS v2 was released. I ordered spare AR lenses from Alan to install in my DBS v1. I'm trying to remember the gain, it was around 5-10%. So say 20,000LUX to 21,000-22,000LUX. In the real world it isn't that noticeable, but every little bit helps right?


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## selfbuilt (Sep 15, 2008)

WadeF said:


> I think that was a DBS v1 with the non-AR lens and a Q4. The DBS v2 has a AR coated lens. I have the DBS v2 and it out peforms my Spear slightly with a Q5, and a bit more with the Dereelight limited R2 pill.


Since it's my review in question, a little clarification from the source: 

The DBS Q4 is indeed a V1 with original lens
The DBS V2 (with AR lens) and the R2 DI pill is also included in that review, and the Q5 Spear still outperforms it slightly at 1 meter (likely because the DI is not driven as hard as the 1SM or 2SD pills). I believe a few others have reported the same thing - the DI is not driven as hard.
Note that those results are all based on peak center throw @ 1 meter. It's possible that throw at further distances may be different (I expect the DBS to edge ahead, frankly).
Since the Spear is now no longer in production, and the DBS comes with harder-driven pills, I think its safe to say the DBS is still the throw king at the moment. Obviously, we'll need to see more samples of the MRV-SK, but ernsanada's numbers are typically very consistent with mine (i.e. his light meter reads slightly lower than mine, but consistently so).


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## WadeF (Sep 15, 2008)

Selfbuilt, yeah, the DI pills don't seem to get up to 1.2A. Also some of the R2's seemed to not perform as well as others. Maybe some had really high Vf? I ordered 2 or 3 of the R2 pills from Dereelight. Also some pills / Cree's seem to focus better than others. I assume you have played around with how the pill is screwed in and adjust it for best focus and maximum throw? With my CL1H's I've been able to go from 7,000 lux to 10,000 lux by adjusting the focus. The DBS is the same story, and often the CL1H Dereelight pills focus tigher than the DBS Dereelight pills. The CL1H pills get the LED farther into the reflector for a tighter focus, but you have to make sure the CL1H pill is insulated from the reflector. Have you tried this with your DBS?

My DBS with a 3SD Q5 and 3SD R2 both edge out my Spear the R2 more so. I never got more than 25,000lux at one meter out of my Spear, it settles down to able 23,000 after a couple minutes. My DBS R2 will peak near 30,000LUX with a fresh 18650, and settles down to about 28,500LUX after a couple minutes. My DBS Q5 would be around 26,000lux and settle down to around 24,500lux after a couple minutes. 

I got to compare my DBS v2 3SD R2 WH with another Raidfire Spear at the last Photon Fest and my DBS was beating it out, not by a lot, but enough to be noticeable. We were shining them out into the black hole as they call it at Milky's place.  Lighting up a field and comparing the hot spots at about 600+ feet.


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## ergotelis (Sep 15, 2008)

WadeF , do you know what you have just done?? :huh:
You made me order one from flashlightlens.com just a minute ago! 

I guess using the 7882 sku circuit with the DBS i can achieve 30000lux and more, why lose that 10% from the lens? :devil:


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Sep 15, 2008)

I've been looking at the DBS for a long time. Amazingly I actually have some self control. I am sure CPF members will cure me of that affliction. 

Which version of the DBS has the absolute best throw? I know the smooth reflector (SMO) is key. The only limitation is, I will use rechargeables. I don't care if it is 18650, RCR123, 17670 or some other variant. As long as it is rechargeable.


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## selfbuilt (Sep 15, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Selfbuilt, yeah, the DI pills don't seem to get up to 1.2A. ... I assume you have played around with how the pill is screwed in and adjust it for best focus and maximum throw? ...The CL1H pills get the LED farther into the reflector for a tighter focus, but you have to make sure the CL1H pill is insulated from the reflector. Have you tried this with your DBS?


I've played with the focus of my DI R2 pill, and ~24,000 initial lux at 1m is the best I can get it (which is the same as my stock Q5 Spear). But the DI drops off slightly in output over the first few minutes, allowing the Q5 Spear to pull ahead. My R2 DI was one of the first ones available (I don't have a CL1H or any of the pills to compare).

In actual use, it's hard to see much of a difference between the lights. My Spear has a slightly cool premium white tint, and the R2 is a very warm WH, so it's actually kind of hard to compare (the cool white typically looks brighter to the eye, the WH shows more definition on trees/grasses, etc). 

Frankly, I'm happy to have either one on me. And the Q5 Tiablo A9 is no slouch either.


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## WadeF (Sep 15, 2008)

That the good thing with the DBS, or problem, it is so highly configurable and adjustable we will all get different results depending on how we have it set up. However, I feel the DBS can be configured to out perform the Raidfire, and other throwers, which puts it at the top of the list for me.


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## Ctrain (Sep 15, 2008)

Just ordered 1...
AND... It'll be here tomorrow!!!!!!:nana:


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Sep 15, 2008)

Which version of the DBS has the absolute best throw? I know the smooth reflector (SMO) is key. The only limitation is, I will use rechargeables. I don't care if it is 18650, RCR123, 17670 or some other variant. As long as it is rechargeable.

So which one?
DBS D1 or DBS V2
1S or 1SM-1 or 1SM-2 or 3SD or 3SM


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 15, 2008)

I think V2 1S....
But I am still unsure myself. I will have to wait till I sell some more stuff to find out 100%. TITAN?


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## WadeF (Sep 16, 2008)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> Which version of the DBS has the absolute best throw? I know the smooth reflector (SMO) is key. The only limitation is, I will use rechargeables. I don't care if it is 18650, RCR123, 17670 or some other variant. As long as it is rechargeable.
> 
> So which one?
> DBS D1 or DBS V2
> 1S or 1SM-1 or 1SM-2 or 3SD or 3SM


 
Right now I'd recommend the DBS V2, use 18650's, and go with the 1S or 3SD pills (these are 1.2A). I've heard some people say the 1S tend to be a bit brighter than the 3SD, but they are both rated at 1.2A, and I haven't confirmed it myself.


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## Glenn7 (Sep 16, 2008)

I just bought a 1S pill and it is brighter than my 3SD pill (even though all pills are suppose to be 1.2A) - after all I bought it for a thrower so I don't really use any low setting - I have better lights for that with better spill for medium to close work


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 16, 2008)

Great point!
1S :devil:


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## Axion (Sep 16, 2008)

Glenn7 said:


> I just bought a 1S pill and it is brighter than my 3SD pill (even though all pills are suppose to be 1.2A) - after all I bought it for a thrower so I don't really use any low setting - I have better lights for that with better spill for medium to close work



Do you think the 1S pill actually drives harder, or is it just emitter variance?


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## Glenn7 (Sep 16, 2008)

Axion said:


> Do you think the 1S pill actually drives harder, or is it just emitter variance?


could be variance - but my theory is (and it may be flawed) that the less mufflers (or resistances) the more Ooomf! :naughty:


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Sep 16, 2008)

Deerelight.com said:


> 1S(1-stage) cree XR-E Q5 Pill
> 
> o Input Range: 2.8~4.2V
> o Output Range: 1.2A
> ...


Th e 1S Q5 is 1.2A. First Pill


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## jirik_cz (Sep 16, 2008)

tricker said:


> NO, the rapidfire spear still is and always has been so.....sorry to burst your bubble
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190999



Sorry to burst YOUR bubble. But after comparing DBS V2 and Spear in a real world there is still only one throw king. And it is not the Spear  As selfbuilt said, measuring lux from 1 meter might be inaccurate for throwers.


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## IcantC (Sep 16, 2008)

I want a DBS soooooooo bad, but really have no use at all for it. It throws great, but I never need to light up anything at that range.


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## mechBgon (Sep 16, 2008)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> Th e 1S Q5 is 1.2A. First Pill


 
I did a little searching, but I bet someone can answer this directly: so does the 3SD pill maintain its output level on 18650, or does it gradually ramp down? Dereelight's wording suggests that it maintains it, but I thought I read otherwise in reviews :thinking:


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## WadeF (Sep 16, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> As selfbuilt said, measuring lux from 1 meter might be inaccurate for throwers.


 
This is a point some of us have brought up before. My Raidfire Spear has a larger hot spot than my DBS. When you shine at something off in the distance the Raidfire Spears's hot spot will be larger than the DBS's hot spot, which allows the DBS to maintain a higher LUX value over distance. I think a distance of 3 meters would more accurately compare the throwers. When I took 1 meter readings and farther readings, the difference between the DBS and Spear got larger, in the DBS's favor.


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## L.E.D. (Sep 18, 2008)

The DBS is indeed still the king of throw, and is a great light.


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## StefanFS (Sep 18, 2008)

The best feature of the DBS is the possibility to use different dropin pills/modules in it, my personal favourites are my FluPIC+Q5 WG pill and my NJG 18+Q5 WG (SKU 7882 on DX) pill. It's also a very robust design with 3 mm thick glass lens and massive reflector for heat dissipation.

Stefan


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## UlrikJ (Sep 18, 2008)

How would the DBS V2 do it performance wise against a SSC P7 light like Ultrafire WF-1000L SSC P7-C or MTE M4-2 SSC P7-C ???

I know that the SSC P7 diode is quite stronger performance wise than the Cree Q5 but why is the DBS V2 then more expensive ??? 
​


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## PhantomPhoton (Sep 18, 2008)

UlrikJ said:


> How would the DBS V2 do it performance wise against a SSC P7 light like Ultrafire WF-1000L SSC P7-C or MTE M4-2 SSC P7-C ???
> 
> I know that the SSC P7 diode is quite stronger performance wise than the Cree Q5 but why is the DBS V2 then more expensive ???
> ​



The DBS is designed for throw and it will stomp those P7 lights in throw. The P7 uses 4 dies to achieve high brightness and to get throw you want the smallest emitter area possible.
Why is it more expensive? One word.. Quality. Better body, finishing, anodizing, electronics and a far superior reflector.

I'm also surprised that the DBS has held the crown for so long. Coming up on a year I think. I have an "old" V1 w/ Q4 3SD module and when R2s (or maybe new osram golden dragons) become available for the DBS I'm very likely to buy another.


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## UlrikJ (Sep 18, 2008)

Okay. Thanks for the answer.

I am also very happy with the quality of my CL1H V4!

But the P7 lights must produce a lot more light based on the lumen rating. So the P7 lights are better to light up the nearest area where the DBS V2 is a dedicated thrower - right ?


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## WadeF (Sep 18, 2008)

UlrikJ said:


> So the P7 lights are better to light up the nearest area where the DBS V2 is a dedicated thrower - right ?


 
Yup, the P7 lights give you more lumens, but in a floodier and wider beam (in general). I like my P7 lights for walking, as a head lamp on my kid's stroller, etc.  I find for night time walking the low modes works fine, and allows for less heat, and longer run times (obviously).

Comparing my MTE P7 light from DX to the DBS, the MTE P7 light is a POS. The quality of the DBS far exceeds it, and that's what you are paying for.


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## Phaserburn (Sep 18, 2008)

My DBS is getting a makeover; got a 5A led and 18650 extender on it's way. I know the 5A is a Q2 vs Q5, and it runs at an amp instead of 1.2, but the increase in color and depth and super runtime are attractive for outdoor use. And as with all Deree's, I can swap back ala lego.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 18, 2008)

just because you have more lumens,does not mean you'll get more throw.You also need a reflector to help throw the light out,like the DBS does very well IMO.
I owned a 1000 lumen "more like 800" wiseled tactical,man that thing would light up a football pitch.But belive or not it did not throw as far my DBS.
Also I would like to say my 3SD pill seemed brighter than my 1S pill,I may have hit the lottery with the 3SD:shrug:

To end IMO the DBS is staying put for now,it would need a newly designed reflector "very deep one at that" to out throw a DBS.
And I can assure you when that happens,I'll be  
Who knows maybe Alan has something up his sleeve


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## Burgess (Sep 18, 2008)

Is it really true that the (3SD) 5A Q2 
runs at One Amp, instead of 1.2 amps for the Q5 version ?


I didn't notice that on their website. 



Gee, just when all this "DeereLight" stuff was starting to make sense to me . . . .


:sigh:
_


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 18, 2008)

Burgess said:


> Is it really true that the (3SD) 5A Q2
> runs at One Amp, instead of 1.2 amps for the Q5 version ?
> 
> 
> ...


If it helps the 3SD 5A Q2 is 1.2A,as stated on dereelight website.The 1SM AND 3SM pills are 1.0A
To make it easier thus:
1S Pill 1.2A
1SM Pill 1.0
3SD Pill 1.2A
3SM pill 1.0A


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## Burgess (Sep 18, 2008)

Ahhh, just as i thought !


Thank you for clearing that up, Titan.


:twothumbs
_


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## IcantC (Sep 18, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> If it helps the 3SD 5A Q2 is 1.2A,as stated on dereelight website.The 1SM AND 3SM pills are 1.0A
> To make it easier thus:
> 1S Pill 1.2A
> 1SM Pill 1.0
> ...




That is helpful, too bad there is no 5A Q2 1S pill. I would want the thrower to be single mode.

I was reading selfbuilts thrower review, is there a huge difference in throw between the Q5 and Q2? Then I rather get the Q5, otherwise I will get the Q2 due to warm tint.

Also in the 3SD pill, is high mode first?


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## IcantC (Sep 18, 2008)

BTW this is the original DBS shots, I was wowed by them.

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=169676


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## richardcpf (Sep 19, 2008)

IcantC said:


> I want a DBS soooooooo bad, but really have no use at all for it. It throws great, but I never need to light up anything at that range.


 
You can use it for long-range target identification or search and rescue. :thumbsup:


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## BMF (Sep 19, 2008)

Looks like the new Solarforce L900 is the new king of throw, see #31 and #35

Pics not clickable when using Google Translation.


It's a little too long with 3x18650 but it throws father, brighter with bigger hot spot than A9.


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 19, 2008)

BMF said:


> Looks like the new Solarforce L900 is the new king of throw, see #31 and #35
> 
> Pics not clickable when using Google Translation.
> 
> It's a little too long with 3x18650 but it throws father, brighter with bigger hot spot than A9.



I have an L900 on order because it looks so promising, because I have the T700 from them so I know their quality, and because the form factor is not a problem for me. However we will have to actually see it in action before we crown a new king.

I suspect that the DBS admirers are considering a "king of throw" within a range of form factor and style. They also seem to enjoy the option of upgrades. I have no problem with this.

Let's face it, the real king of throw would be a 30 megawatt argon laser, but we are not likely to be carrying one around in our pocket. 

Best regards,
DGM


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## saabluster (Sep 19, 2008)

BMF said:


> Looks like the new Solarforce L900 is the new king of throw, see #31 and #35
> 
> Pics not clickable when using Google Translation.
> 
> ...


Sorry but I would not say that it throws farther using those pictures. He clearly used a longer exposure on the P7 picture. I have no doubt that it puts out more overall light but I question the claim of more throw.


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 19, 2008)

duplicate post from when the server re-booted just as I posted.


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 19, 2008)

saabluster said:


> Sorry but I would not say that it throws farther using those pictures. He clearly used a longer exposure on the P7 picture. I have no doubt that it puts out more overall light but I question the claim of more throw.


 
I see now, it is a matter of distance. My needs are a balance of distance, size of hot spot and brightness at that size. Again, just my personal needs, but I think I understand your definition now for "king of throw".

We don't know the conditions of those shots regarding distance, however he clearly used identical exposures. You can tell by all the distant building lights or street lights that show up around the borders and in the darker areas. If the exposures were greatly different, those lights would look very different in color, saturation and general appearance.

We will have to wait for more results from known distances etc. before making any conclusions, but one thing is certain - the L900 is very interesting to me for my daily use at night on patrol.

Best regards,
DGM


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## StefanFS (Sep 19, 2008)

An SSC P7 Maglite driven at 2.8-3A with a smooth reflector easily outperforms the better throwers like the DBS and RaidFire Spear, the P7 Mag puts a hotspot ?four times? the size that of the Spear on a treeline in my link below, that's at 250 meters. Even a smaller P7 light with OP reflector manages to light up the treeline at that distance, it just doesn't have a defined round hotspot.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198549

And yes, the DBS V2 and the Raidfire Spear are very close in performance when you actually go out in the woods and use them in real life dark conditions, see here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/190499

/Stefan


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## UlrikJ (Sep 19, 2008)

What about the big reflector on the Ultrafire WF-1000L SSC P7-C --> http://www1.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_15572_6.jpg
That is bigger than the DBS V2 reflector but WF-1000L wont throw further ?


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## Glenn7 (Sep 19, 2008)

removed - Photo didn't work


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 19, 2008)




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## TITAN1833 (Sep 19, 2008)

UlrikJ said:


> What about the big reflector on the Ultrafire WF-1000L SSC P7-C --> http://www1.dealextreme.com/productimages/sku_15572_6.jpg
> That is bigger than the DBS V2 reflector but WF-1000L wont throw further ?


No it wont,for one it's OP and two it has a shallow reflector


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## Biont (Sep 19, 2008)

There might be a new winner soon:


https://www.candlepowerforums.com/t...king+7x24+to+make+bodies+of+Spartanian&page=5



TITAN1833 said:


> Let me ask a question? will it beat my DBS? non has yet!!
> even some HID


 



neoseikan said:


> It will beat DBSwith no doubt.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 19, 2008)

Biont said:


> There might be a new winner soon:
> 
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/t...king+7x24+to+make+bodies+of+Spartanian&page=5


Yeah waiting for that one,very interesting


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## Biont (Sep 19, 2008)

TITAN1833, I wasn't aware that that was also your post. Funny coincidence. I am new to this light-o-mania and after lame 1 lumen commercial plasticky flashes, whatever I see in this forum makes me drool and go berserk about it.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 19, 2008)

Biont said:


> I am new to this light-o-mania and after lame 1 lumen commercial plasticky flashes.


I know what you mean,led flashlights are moving very fast.
You can now get 0.2 lumens upto 180 ish lumens in one flashlight.
BTW :welcome:


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## WadeF (Sep 19, 2008)

Biont said:


> There might be a new winner soon:
> 
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/t...king+7x24+to+make+bodies+of+Spartanian&page=5


 
I'll believe it when I see it, but if it would take 3 P7's with some big fancy reflector, a big light to support all the batteries and power they would need, what's the point? Might as well grab a big old 10MCP spot light. 

Also the 1 meter reading maybe misleading, they should take a reading at 3-5 meters.


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## DArklite (Sep 19, 2008)

Wade, my feelings exactly.
for around $60 shipped you can grab a POB HID spotlight which will send the DBS, Spear, etc. wimpin'.


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## Zafar (Sep 19, 2008)

whats a POB HID spotlight ?

can you give a link?

Thanks


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## DArklite (Sep 19, 2008)

Zafar said:


> whats a POB HID spotlight ?
> 
> can you give a link?
> 
> Thanks



http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/eighth/powhid.htm for photos and a review.

or search eBay for reputable sellers; I got mine new here at the Marketplace.
Also, check out the Spotlights and HID Flashlights forum here at CPF for more info.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 19, 2008)

DArklite said:


> Wade, my feelings exactly.
> for around $60 shipped you can grab a POB HID spotlight which will send the DBS, Spear, etc. wimpin'.


Yeah,but not
exactly pocketable


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## WadeF (Sep 19, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Yeah,but not
> exactly pocketable


 
Is the LEGION II: A 3*18650 SSC P7going to be pocketable? I think the point was if you're going to take a jump in size, over the DBS, to be able to beat it, it kind of defeats the point of the DBS, which is a pocketable thrower. Once you get above pocket size, you might as well grab a HID, etc.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 19, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Is the LEGION II: A 3*18650 SSC P7going to be pocketable? I think the point was if you're going to take a jump in size, over the DBS, to be able to beat it, it kind of defeats the point of the DBS, which is a pocketable thrower. Once you get above pocket size, you might as well grab a HID, etc.


Good point,but my post was in response to this qoute[for around $60 shipped you can grab a POB HID spotlight which will send the DBS, Spear, etc. wimpin'.]

As to the LEGION II will it be pocketable I doubt it,I am just interested in it's development.


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## tx101 (Sep 19, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Good point,but my post was in response to this qoute[for around $60 shipped you can grab a POB HID spotlight which will send the DBS, Spear, etc. wimpin'.]
> 
> As to the LEGION II will it be pocketable I doubt it,I am just interested in it's development.



Hey Titan, Im feeling slightly inadequate now 
Whats a POB HID ??? (future purchase perhaps)


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 19, 2008)

tx101 said:


> Hey Titan, Im feeling slightly inadequate now
> Whats a POB HID ??? (future purchase perhaps)


power on board HID 35w,there is a link a few post above yours.
[edit]#64


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## WadeF (Sep 19, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Good point,but my post was in response to this qoute[for around $60 shipped you can grab a POB HID spotlight which will send the DBS, Spear, etc. wimpin'.]
> 
> As to the LEGION II will it be pocketable I doubt it,I am just interested in it's development.


 
Hehe, the quote you were responding too was a response to my comment about it basically being too large to be pocketableto, which you responded "Yeah, but not exactly pocketable" which was the point we were already making.  May want to read back through our comments.


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## BlueBeam22 (Sep 19, 2008)

I have the POB HID (Power On Board HID Spotlight), it is amazing.
It has a laser like beam (I have a green laser) and illuminates objects up to 1 mile away. You can put a small spot on trees 1/2 a mile away with it, or light up low level clouds. I have a 10 million candlepower spotlight and it only seems to have about 1/2 the throw of the POB. The POB's beam in the night sky is visible far away. I highly recommend the POB. You can get it on Ebay for around $50 (it is the red and black one).


----------



## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 19, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> I have the POB HID (Power On Board HID Spotlight), it is amazing.
> It has a laser like beam (I have a green laser) and illuminates objects up to 1 mile away. You can put a small spot on trees 1/2 a mile away with it, or light up low level clouds. I have a 10 million candlepower spotlight and it only seems to have about 1/2 the throw of the POB. The POB's beam in the night sky is visible far away. I highly recommend the POB. You can get it on Ebay for around $50 (it is the red and black one).



I almost bought two of those POB because of the penetrating power. There are some operational concerns with these lights that kept me from going through with it.

First is the weight and bulk of these lights, 8 lbs. Not friendly for a security tour, but your needs may be ok with this.

Second is not being able to have rapid, frequent duty cycle. Once you turn it on, leave it on till you don't need it for a couple of minutes. You will damage the bulb if you do a "hot re-strike" I think they call it.

Third is the battery in these POB units has most probably rotted now. They have been out of production for some time and most people seem to report needing to replace the battery. Still not a bad deal if you want an HID light, the total price is still attractive.

They are powerful lights, but frankly, the higher output LED lights at medium distance are a much better option. If you really need to put light on a target at 1 mile, the HID lights do that best at the moment. (just give it time)

Frankly, I have seen beam shots comparing the Solarforce T700 and several other LED lights to an HID lamp, and I do not have any HID envy. Again, I am not looking at one mile distances.

Best regards,
DGM


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## BlueBeam22 (Sep 19, 2008)

DigitalGreaseMonkey,

Wow, I didn't know the POB lights are out of production, does that mean that they will soon be unavailable?

I agree with you, I don't like how it has to be left off for a few minutes before turning it on so I don't instant-restrike the bulb, and how it has to be left on for a minute or so before turning it off.

I highly recommend the Coleman 530 lumen CREE XR-E Tri-star LED spotlight, as it throws for at least 1/4 of a mile, has a perfect round white beam, and has the brightest spill I have ever seen from any light. It is by far the longest throwing LED light I have ever seen and it out throws some of my 1 and 2 million candlepower spotlights. It is rechargeable and is supposed to last 2.5 hours on a full charge (I have used mine for about 1 hour straight and it didn't dim at all). It is very small and lightweight compared to the POB so I think it is a great choice for anyone looking for a high power flashlight with less bulk than a big spotlight. I bought mine at Sears for $60.


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 19, 2008)

BlueBeam22 said:


> DigitalGreaseMonkey,
> 
> Wow, I didn't know the POB lights are out of production, does that mean that they will soon be unavailable?
> 
> I agree with you, I don't like how it has to be left off for a few minutes before turning it on so I don't instant-restrike the bulb, and how it has to be left on for a minute or so before turning it off.



Yes, the POB branded lights are all from old production. A huge pile of them were sold off cheaply at Sam's club, then Sam's unloaded the remainders very cheaply. Most of the ones you see on Ebay etc were picked up that way. (They paid in the neighborhood of $20 each or less.)

The light itself is still manufactured I think, and shows up as a Vector branded unit or even Black & Decker I believe. Of course, they are more money, but they are new. (or at least new-ish)



> I highly recommend the Coleman 530 lumen CREE XR-E Tri-star LED spotlight, as it throws for at least 1/4 of a mile, has a perfect round white beam, and has the brightest spill I have ever seen from any light. It is by far the longest throwing LED light I have ever seen and it out throws some of my 1 and 2 million candlepower spotlights. It is rechargeable and is supposed to last 2.5 hours on a full charge (I have used mine for about 1 hour straight and it didn't dim at all). It is very small and lightweight compared to the POB so I think it is a great choice for anyone looking for a high power flashlight with less bulk than a big spotlight. I bought mine at Sears for $60.


LED lights are becoming more mainstream. That Coleman looks interesting, although for my application I need more lumens. It is amazing what can be done with a standard LED if you have a great reflector. The reflectors are so important to the end result. They really need to be custom designed for a particular kind of beam.

Best regards,
DGM


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## Biont (Sep 20, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Is the LEGION II: A 3*18650 SSC P7going to be pocketable? I think the point was if you're going to take a jump in size, over the DBS, to be able to beat it, it kind of defeats the point of the DBS, which is a pocketable thrower. Once you get above pocket size, you might as well grab a HID, etc.



Depends on the pocket. But definitely not a EDC.

It will have a brand new reflector designed specially for the SSC P7 led.
The body will hold 3*18650. But side by side. The possible sizes :
Dia. - About 52mm (Head). About 44mm (Body)
Len. - About 168mm. (maybe less between 13-15 cm)
Multilevel by an advanced UI. More than 40000 lux. 

Not designed to be a thrower but it should throw.
Perfect to keep in the car. 

ps: few people needs a thrower to be pocketable by the way, maybe that's why DBS still holds the crown.


----------



## French_Candle (Sep 20, 2008)

what could be the next generation thrower in the same size of the DBS ? it will use P7 ? , cree MC-E ?


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## BMF (Sep 23, 2008)

BMF said:


> Looks like the new Solarforce L900 is the new king of throw, see #31 and #35
> 
> Pics not clickable when using Google Translation.
> 
> ...




Solarforce L900 is on Kai now for a few dollars cheaper.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 23, 2008)

BMF said:


> Solarforce L900 is on Kai now for a few dollars cheaper.


Nice light,but it will not throw father than the DBS for one it has a shallow reflector"look at post #35 pic one" than the DBS and that spot is going to spread out the farther it goes.Like it has been said it is not just about lumens,you need to keep the spot very tight for long distance throw.


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 24, 2008)

BMF said:


> Solarforce L900 is on Kai now for a few dollars cheaper.



Yes, I just noticed that. The Solarforce Store includes a charger and three 18650 batteries with the light. (if I read it correctly) I don't know if Kai is doing the same, but then if you already have all the chargers and batteries you want, it is a moot point. 

Again, I expect this to be a medium range light, not a laser like the DBS. I need to punch through parking lot light dazzle at medium range with a nice wide hot spot. I find narrow hot spots to be less useful to me for quick scene appraisal.

I can certainly see why many people would enjoy a long distance laser for certain applications. That just does not fit my use model at this time.

Best regards,
DGM


----------



## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 24, 2008)

Deleted double post due to server re-set.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 24, 2008)

DigitalGreaseMonkey said:


> Yes, I just noticed that. The Solarforce Store includes a charger and three 18650 batteries with the light. (if I read it correctly) I don't know if Kai is doing the same, but then if you already have all the chargers and batteries you want, it is a moot point.
> 
> Again, I expect this to be a medium range light, not a laser like the DBS. I need to punch through parking lot light dazzle at medium range with a nice wide hot spot. I find narrow hot spots to be less useful to me for quick scene appraisal.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you said here,the solarforce or ultrafire 1000L are great lights for med distance a cheaper alternative to a wiseled tactical maybe:thinking:
Although not in the same league as the tactical,but just as useful IMO.


----------



## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 24, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> I agree with what you said here,the solarforce or ultrafire 1000L are great lights for med distance a cheaper alternative to a wiseled tactical maybe:thinking:
> Although not in the same league as the tactical,but just as useful IMO.



I just took a look at the Wiseled Tactical, holy smokes! For a compact size, that is an awesome output, but at roughly $600 US, I think I will stick with my little Solarforce lights, even though they are not optimized for size. 

Best regards,
DGM


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 24, 2008)

The wiseled tactical 1500 lumens model sure is a retina burner,I owned the 1000 lumen version and that was no slouch either.


----------



## TITAN1833 (Sep 24, 2008)

DigitalGreaseMonkey said:


> I just took a look at the Wiseled Tactical, holy smokes! For a compact size, that is an awesome output, but at roughly $600 US, I think I will stick with my little Solarforce lights, even though they are not optimized for size.
> 
> Best regards,
> DGM


Have you looked at the ultrafire 1000L it is shorter than the solaforce.


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## jirik_cz (Sep 24, 2008)

Probably in two weeks I'll make some comparison of DBS, A9, Supertac, T700, L900, MVP, 1000L and some other lights. :naughty:


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 24, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> Probably in two weeks I'll make some comparison of DBS, A9, Supertac, T700, L900, MVP, 1000L and some other lights. :naughty:


That will be cool,the supertac looks a interesting light even though it reminds me of a bell :devil:


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## jirik_cz (Sep 24, 2008)

I didn't see Supertac yet. But my friend says that it has bigger(plastic) reflector than DBS. Maybe if they've used SSC P4 U2 instead of Luxeon K2 it would be better than DBS...


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 24, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> Probably in two weeks I'll make some comparison of DBS, A9, Supertac, T700, L900, MVP, 1000L and some other lights. :naughty:



I look forward to your carefully controlled tests! I have already made the jump with the L900 so it will be very interesting to see if my intuition holds up to actual testing. I am really enjoying the T700, just looking for larger hot spot with a little more mid-range punch. That large and relatively deep reflector is promising. We shall see. 

Best regards,
DGM


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 24, 2008)

Review of the supertac
here


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Sep 24, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Have you looked at the ultrafire 1000L it is shorter than the solaforce.



Size is not really a concern for me, within reason. I can see why you suggest the slightly shorter Ultrafire 1000L because of my exclamation about the Wiseled. The Wiseled is quite a bit smaller than even the Ultrafire. I gambled on the Solarforce L900 because of the larger reflector, three 18650 cells and my experience with the T700.

Now, we don't know how all these design choices add up in the final implementation. It might be a spectacular failure, but based on my experience with the T700, I don't expect that outcome. Again, time will tell.

Best regards,
DGM


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 24, 2008)

Still waiting to pick up the DBS.


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 24, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> Still waiting to pick up the DBS.


If you wait a couple of weeks,I'll try and help you out


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 24, 2008)

Awesome!


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## TITAN1833 (Sep 24, 2008)

sgt-led watch the MP,your name will be mentioned


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 24, 2008)

I am at work thursday afternoon friday all day saturday all day and till noon sunday.

Just to let you know!


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## 5.0Trunk (Sep 24, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> sgt-led watch the MP,your name will be mentioned



It's waiting for you Sgt. LED! Go check...


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## Sgt. LED (Sep 24, 2008)

Holy cow!
I can't believe that just happened. 

He made me an incredible gesture and I was away from the CPU and now the thread is closed!

Man I BLEW IT!

:mecry:


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## jirik_cz (Oct 3, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> Probably in two weeks I'll make some comparison of DBS, A9, Supertac, T700, L900, MVP, 1000L and some other lights. :naughty:



I'm sorry guys, my friend that owns these lights had a car accident (fortunately he is fine, but car is totaled) so we will have to postpone the action.

From what he said L900 has the best throw from all P7 lights he has (various DX lights). But it has not better throw than T700 and that also means that it doesn't have better throw than DBS. So the DBS is still the king. At least he said that L900 hotspot is really massive, much bigger than DBS has.


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Oct 3, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> I'm sorry guys, my friend that owns these lights had a car accident (fortunately he is fine, but car is totaled) so we will have to postpone the action.
> 
> From what he said L900 has the best throw from all P7 lights he has (various DX lights). But it has not better throw than T700 and that also means that it doesn't have better throw than DBS. So the DBS is still the king. At least he said that L900 hotspot is really massive, much bigger than DBS has.



This tracks with my experience with the L900 and T700. For the first minute or two the L900 is more impressive, but thermal throttling happens very quickly with my copy and the T700 comes out on top. I am in the process of asking to return the L900 for a second T700. That probably expresses my opinion best of all.

Edit: The dimming I experienced was due to dirty contacts, cleaned all batteries, all contacts in all lights, now there is no worrisome dimming of the L900. In fact brightness in all the lights improved a bit. My conclusion remains the same though, the T700 is the better thrower of the two lights by a good margin. The L900 is my room sweeper for interior tours, but I always have the T700 on my belt for those times when I need to penetrate dazzle.

Best regards,
DGM


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## jirik_cz (Oct 3, 2008)

I'm little bit surprised with "thermal throttling" because this light looks big enough to dissipate all heat. When I'll get one I'll make runtime graph and we will see


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Oct 3, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> I'm little bit surprised with "thermal throttling" because this light looks big enough to dissipate all heat. When I'll get one I'll make runtime graph and we will see



Edit: Decided to update this post since I discovered that the L900 was dimming due to dirty contacts. I spent a while cleaning all batteries and all contacts in the lights and tested again. No more worrisome dimming of the L900.

If you are in a really dark environment, the L900 throws an impressive ball of light for quite a distance. If you have some local dazzle interfering with your vision, the T700 is the best choice between the two.

I have seen beam shots comparing the T700 and DBSv2, they really do compete, although the hot spot on the T700 is quite a bit larger. Three emitters helps a great deal.

Best regards,
DGM


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## jirik_cz (Oct 3, 2008)

DigitalGreaseMonkey said:


> None of these high output lights are designed properly for continuous duty it seems. Looking at the run time graphs on this review: http://www.light-reviews.com/solarforce_t700/ It appears that the T700 has an optimal thermal envelope at about %50 output (level 4 setting). You get nearly ruler flat run time for a solid five hours.



The drop in brightness is not caused by heat but just because the light has not driver with flat regulation.


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Oct 3, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> The drop in brightness is not caused by heat but just because the light has not driver with flat regulation.



If the driver will not do regulation, why would the 50% power level run almost perfectly flat for five hours? Will the lithium cells hold voltage that well for five hours?

Best regards,
DGM


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## jirik_cz (Oct 4, 2008)

Cells hold voltage better under lower load. Maybe it is semi-regulated or something. I've made runtimes with and without active cooling and runtime graph was always the same.


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Oct 4, 2008)

jirik_cz said:


> Cells hold voltage better under lower load. Maybe it is semi-regulated or something. I've made runtimes with and without active cooling and runtime graph was always the same.



Hmmm, good to know. Maybe this L900 is hackable, if only I could figure out how to get into that throat section. I will examine it more carefully under magnification later. I don't want to destroy the thing within the first week. 

Thanks,
DGM


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## DigitalGreaseMonkey (Oct 4, 2008)

Double post after server re-set.


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## riceboy72 (Oct 8, 2008)

I'm such a lucky guy! I came home from work last night and on the counter was a wrapped box, with a card from my girlfriend. I opened it up and it was a Dereelight DBS - the light I'd been drooling over! She was going to give it to me at Christmas, but decided to give it to me as a thank you for taking care of her after a recent surgery.

All I can say is oh.my.gosh. I'm in love. I thought the Tiablo A9 was one hell of a thrower, but this thing outdoes it easily. The Tiablo is a great flashlight, but now I know why the DBS has taken the title of king of throw.

Long live the king!


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Oct 8, 2008)

riceboy72 said:


> I'm such a lucky guy! ...on the counter was a wrapped box, with a card from my girlfriend. All I can say is oh.my.gosh. I'm in love. I thought the Tiablo A9 was one hell of a thrower, but this thing outdoes it easily. The Tiablo is a great flashlight, but now I know why the DBS has taken the title of king of throw.
> 
> Long live the king!



Ooooh! You're in so much trouble. Your girlfriend gives you a flashlight and then you proclaim your love . . . to the flashlight! :duck:


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## orbital (Oct 8, 2008)

riceboy72 said:


> I'm such a lucky guy! I came home from work last night and on the counter was a wrapped box, with a card from my girlfriend. I opened it up and it was a Dereelight DBS - the light I'd been drooling over! She was going to give it to me at Christmas, but decided to give it to me as a thank you for taking care of her after a recent surgery.
> 
> All I can say is oh.my.gosh. I'm in love. I thought the Tiablo A9 was one hell of a thrower, but this thing outdoes it easily. The Tiablo is a great flashlight, but now I know why the DBS has taken the title of king of throw.
> 
> Long live the king!



+ 

Lucky man!

~ Depending on the pill your using, and how far the emitter is 'into' the reflector, the DBS can shine 300 yards or more.

If you didn't get an OP reflector, consider it, the throw will be less but the beam is _booming_!!

Hopefully Alan will develop a pill with the MC-E....:devil:


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## MoreLumens4Me (Oct 9, 2008)

I am wondering if Dereelight is going to come out with a next generation of this light; because if I got it I wouldn't want something outdated. Thanks for any help. It looks like a very nice light. And I was also wondering if the OP reflector comes with it or if you have to buy it separately.


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## Axion (Oct 9, 2008)

OP reflector is separate but only $20 not bad at all IMO. Also if anything better comes out the pills are upgradeable so it only costs you $30 to get back up to speed, once again not bad. And a hidden bonus, that I'm appreciating more since I chipped the lens on one of my lights, is that fact they sell spare lenses for $5.


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## hertz (Oct 9, 2008)

I see Solarforces being talked about. It's a bit of a funny design, but any chance of getting an L1200 in there for comparison? It seems to throw pretty nicely...


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## 1203 (Oct 9, 2008)

Good thread.


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## jenskh (Oct 9, 2008)

Here is my DBS:
*Destination* - Norway
The item (RT005152379HK) left Hong Kong for its destination on 9-Oct-2008


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## riceboy72 (Oct 9, 2008)

Question for those of you with the DBS - mine has a shadow in the middle of the hotspot, and I don't know what it is. I've looked and searched through CPF but can't find any real info on it. 

Is this normal, or should the middle of the hotspot be clean with nothing in it? I can see it only when I hit something flat, like the side of the house or a distant fence. Enough to bug me because I know it's there, but I won't worry about it too much if it's normal. It probably doesn't help me when I noticed my Regalight WT-1 or Tiablo A9 don't have shadows in the middle of the hotspot.

Any help is appreciated.


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## lightmyway (Oct 9, 2008)

Mine also has a shadow in the middle of the beam ,probably the design of the reflector,its only noticeable if your looking for it,for the amount of light it throws its of little concern,On the other hand if its a simple adjustment or something i'm all ears....


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## 5.0Trunk (Oct 9, 2008)

I believe you can try to adjust the pill out a little to eliminate the shadow. (Screw the pill out a bit and try)


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## lightmyway (Oct 9, 2008)

5.0Trunk said:


> I believe you can try to adjust the pill out a little to eliminate the shadow. (Screw the pill out a bit and try)


Yes i think that helps eliminate the shadow I,ll have to wait until dark to see if it effects the throw,thanks for the tip.


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## riceboy72 (Oct 9, 2008)

Thanks for the tip! How far out do you unscrew it? Just a few turns, or?


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## Glenn7 (Oct 9, 2008)

half to three quarters of a turn out fixes the dark hole :wave:


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## jenskh (Oct 14, 2008)

jenskh said:


> Here is my DBS:
> *Destination* - Norway
> The item (RT005152379HK) left Hong Kong for its destination on 9-Oct-2008


My DBS arrived today:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs
In this tread http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=181716i you can se my initial experiences.

Now I am sitting here and wondering about what variant to take on my evening trip. 
Hmm... I guess I will go for max throw tonight:twothumbs


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 14, 2008)

jenskh said:


> My DBS arrived today:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs
> In this tread http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=181716i you can se my initial experiences.
> 
> Now I am sitting here and wondering about what variant to take on my evening trip.
> Hmm... I guess I will go for max throw tonight:twothumbs


congrats jenskh,
go with the old 3SD pill 26.000 lux :thumbsup:


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## riceboy72 (Oct 17, 2008)

It's going to be clean up the DBS and lube it night when I get off work. Quick question - is there a need to put a little bit of lube in the threads of the pill and reflector, or do I run the risk of it oozing out if too much is applied and possibly entering the reflector, making lube unnecessary? I've only unscrewed it a few times trying to get rid of the donut, but I don't know if it needs lube at all.


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 17, 2008)

No! do not put lube on the pill or reflector 
Btw if you back the pill off by say half a turn you can get rid of the hole in the spot quite easy,it's just trial and error.


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## phantom23 (Oct 22, 2008)

"*looks like the dbs is still the king of throw"

*Maybe not...https://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16537


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 22, 2008)

Well for $36.00 I'll take the plunge :twothumbs

and I'll let you know.

BTW phantom23 have you got one?


----------



## IcantC (Oct 22, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Well for $36.00 I'll take the plunge :twothumbs
> 
> and I'll let you know.
> 
> BTW phantom23 have you got one?


 
Well let us know!

Just posting a link, doesn't make it better haha.

We need real world outside comparisons .


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 22, 2008)

IcantC said:


> Well let us know!
> 
> Just posting a link, doesn't make it better haha.
> 
> We need real world outside comparisons .


Just a guess here! if it only drives say 900ma then it would not be close to the DBS i.e power+reflector=throw


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## phantom23 (Oct 22, 2008)

With 42x59mm reflector it seems to be better than DBS - 38,8x46mm. Besides you can buy another driver (7882 for example) and get 1,2A. Huge reflector and Cree R2 driven @ 1,2A for ~ $40? Nice...


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## ergotelis (Oct 22, 2008)

Where did you find the dimensions of the reflector?BTW, what is the difference between 801 and 802?
Also, does it have a true R2 or an "overclocked" one?


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## phantom23 (Oct 24, 2008)

Here and here. "Lighting range at night can reach about 500 meters"!!!:huh:

"Overclocked" R2 is Q5 and it's still quite bright.


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 24, 2008)

what is the price in $$$$ for the 802 I cant see it on that site :sigh:


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## phantom23 (Oct 24, 2008)

I can't see the price for 801 as well... But there's one at DX - $38,90. IMO 802 is a little bit ugly...


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## phantom23 (Oct 25, 2008)

And 2x18650 version


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 27, 2008)

Guys we have a new king, R.I.P DBS.
new king of throw


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## WadeF (Oct 27, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> Guys we have a new king, R.I.P DBS.
> new king of throw


 
Does that come with a pocket clip?


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 27, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Does that come with a pocket clip?


No! but it does come with factor 50 sun block


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## artec540 (Oct 27, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> No! but it does come with factor 50 sun block



I don't care what you say, that is NOT a flashlight!


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## Coaster (Oct 27, 2008)

WadeF said:


> Does that come with a pocket clip?



Nope just a holster, you'll need a strong belt though! :thumbsup:


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 27, 2008)

artec540 said:


> I don't care what you say, that is NOT a flashlight!


 IMO I define it so 



Coaster said:


> Nope just a holster, you'll need a strong belt though! :thumbsup:


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## owner (Oct 28, 2008)

The build quality of DBS V2 is highly admired here. But when I got a new one with this lens, you could imagine how disappointed I was.


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## Coaster (Oct 28, 2008)

owner said:


> The build quality of DBS V2 is highly admired here. But when I got a new one with this lens, you could imagine how disappointed I was.



Wow I thought they were supposed to pack the lens _inside_ the box on it's way over from china!


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## owner (Oct 28, 2008)

Coaster said:


> Wow I thought they were supposed to pack the lens _inside_ the box on it's way over from china!


I took the lens out of the torch head (not that easy). I cleaned it with no success.


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 28, 2008)

Coaster said:


> Wow I thought they were supposed to pack the lens _inside_ the box on it's way over from china!


They are packed installed in the DBS then placed in a foam insert placed in a box.:thinking:

@owner although I feel your frustration,we are not discussing mishaps here,I suggest you contact Alan at dereelight I'm sure he will put it right.


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## owner (Oct 28, 2008)

TITAN1833 said:


> They are packed installed in the DBS then placed in a foam insert placed in a box.:thinking:
> 
> @owner although I feel your frustration,we are not discussing mishaps here,I suggest you contact Alan at dereelight I'm sure he will put it right.


Due to no good replacement for this lens available, I got my money back from Alan. I will re-consider to buy one if a solution is there, though.


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 28, 2008)

owner said:


> Due to no good replacement for this lens available, I got my money back from Alan. I will re-consider to buy one if a solution is there, though.


shame you did not post about it earlier,I have a spare.


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## Glenn7 (Oct 28, 2008)

same here owner - I have a spare - shame that you didnt speak up first


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## owner (Oct 28, 2008)

Glenn7 said:


> same here owner - I have a spare - shame that you didnt speak up first


There are at least 2 different batches of DBS V2. I looked at the company logo on the torch body and it looked like the following:




I purchased my torch in this month.


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 28, 2008)

whatever the batch or logo,:thinking:
the lens are all the same size :twothumbs


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## owner (Oct 29, 2008)

Whatever the batch or logo, the lens are all the same size, with different 'ultra-clearness'.
There should be better quality control.


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