# Masks thread



## bykfixer (Apr 13, 2020)

So now that the pandemic has the world wearing masks, elastic in stores is the new toilet paper as millions are diy-ing them. 

Let's see those masks. 






My default was an ordinary bandana, but Mrs. Fixer is making me a manly man red neck approved mask with John Deere tracker hats plastered all over it. 





Lets see what other flashaholics are sportin during this pandemic. (or after the dust settles)


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## bigburly912 (Apr 13, 2020)

You have to give them the eye when you are going after that last can of Campbell’s chunky sirloin.


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## knucklegary (Apr 13, 2020)

A few more and y'all can make a posse :devil:


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## RedLED (Apr 13, 2020)

Just some basic 3M N95 maskes I had at the desert house for some reason, I Can't remember. I Dont fix things anymore, and I have not done yard work since the 70's so I really cannot say why they were here but I'm glad I have them.


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## ven (Apr 13, 2020)

Choice of 2(well 3 actually) in work









I do have some filtered ones as well, but i look even more like an alien! Maybe not a bad thing:nana:


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## scout24 (Apr 13, 2020)

My son has been 3D printing mask blanks for commonly available 2"x2" replaceable air purifier filters. He's adding elastic and some foam as a seal. No pic of his old man... :nana: I'm using blue surgical masks over a very full beard just as a reminder not to touch my face, I know it's ineffective but it's taken me 2 1/2 years to grow. Anything more than a grocery run a week, I might shave it. Or if I needed to go to Wally World... 

https://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad56/scout24cpf/Screenshot_20200413-154940_Message.jpg


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## Poppy (Apr 13, 2020)

This one was posted as a joke...
just remember... Brown goes in back 





This is not a particularly good picture, I'll have to get a better pic





I gave one of these to my MD Friend, and kept two more should my family need them. I got them after 9-11 when my wife was getting panicky due to all the RED and Yellow Alerts that were continually interrupting TV shows.


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## ven (Apr 13, 2020)

Visibility from your underpants ,looks better than my work mask!! :laughing:


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## bigburly912 (Apr 13, 2020)

ven said:


> Visibility from your underpants ,looks better than my work mask!! :laughing:



no crap!! yeah, i went there


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## Poppy (Apr 13, 2020)

ven said:


> Visibility from your underpants ,looks better than my work mask!! :laughing:





bigburly912 said:


> no crap!! yeah, i went there



LOL... you guys are nuts!


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## Poppy (Apr 13, 2020)

Have you guys seen this one?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1242828550329307136


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## knucklegary (Apr 13, 2020)

I had CVS security following me around the store, guess they thought I was planning to hiest the box of prunes

Mod, please let me know if the image is too big, this is my first attempt 

Thx.. Byk for the tutorial!


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## Hooked on Fenix (Apr 14, 2020)

Been using surgical masks found in a bunch of emergency survival kits and N95 masks I bought in 2007 to filter ash and smoke during the Witch Creek fire. Can't buy new masks as Home Depot, Lowes, and Harbor Freight donated all of them to hospitals. Not planning on donating mine as there are several family members that are immune compromised including me. Definitely prefer to err on the side of caution when going to see a doctor right now. I think it's pretty messed up to have the stores donate all the good masks, require you to wear one in public, tell people they can make one out of clothes, and then start blocking off the clothing section in stores calling it nonessential.


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## bykfixer (Apr 14, 2020)

knucklegary said:


> I had CVS security following me around the store, guess they thought I was planning to hiest the box of prunes
> 
> Mod, please let me know if the image is too big, this is my first attempt
> 
> Thx.. Byk for the tutorial!



It's that Carhartt hat covering your chrome dome that makes them suspicious KG. 

Mrs Fixer made a couple for me to share at work. 




Farmer Brown and proper Scotsman style


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## knucklegary (Apr 14, 2020)

Haha!! The flannel does look comfy


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## Poppy (Apr 14, 2020)

Hey that lady has some talent!
:thumbsup:


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## ven (Apr 14, 2020)

Poppy said:


> Hey that lady has some talent!
> :thumbsup:



I was thinking the exact same


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## bykfixer (Apr 14, 2020)

So far so good. 





Kinda hard to enjoy my 10am cigarette though.


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## bigburly912 (Apr 14, 2020)

You gotta learn to smoke it with your ear or eye.


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## ven (Apr 14, 2020)

Thats because you should be vaping

:nana:


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## bykfixer (Apr 14, 2020)

Hmmmm


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## markr6 (Apr 14, 2020)

Poppy said:


> I gave one of these to my MD Friend, and kept two more should my family need them. I got them after 9-11 when my wife was getting panicky due to all the RED and Yellow Alerts that were continually interrupting TV shows.



I haven't seen anyone wear something like this yet, but my friend said he saw some guy at the grocery store wearing a WWI style gas mask with the canister hanging from the hose. That had to be a joke, but you never know.

I wore one of these just yesterday while spraying some camping equipment with permethrin. Not sure it was necessary, but I had it so why not. They're actually very comfortable with the big strap that goes on your head and elastic around neck.


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## bykfixer (Apr 14, 2020)

This? 




Nah





Yeah Better


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## ven (Apr 14, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Hmmmm






:twothumbs


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## scout24 (Apr 14, 2020)

https://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad56/scout24cpf/20200414_123010.jpg

I need a cool mask. Blue surgical ain't gonna do... Just kidding. I don't leave the house enough to justify it.


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## wacbzz (Apr 14, 2020)

You’ve got that cameo hat like KG, Scout. You’d better stay out of CVS!


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## wacbzz (Apr 14, 2020)

knucklegary said:


> Mod, please let me know if the image is too big, this is my first attempt
> 
> Thx.. Byk for the tutorial!



Perhaps a tutorial for the rear of us? I tried posting a photo the same way I do in the UG, but it doesn’t work up here...


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## bykfixer (Apr 14, 2020)

Hmmm, how much light penetrates my farmer Brown mask?





None when held up to the sun today at 5 PM east coast time.

We did a plugger test with prototypes. If you can blow out a match while wearing it, you can spread the germs. 
If you cannot breath while wearing it, you will die so that aint no good either. 

Final product does not let you blow out a match but air still comes in fairly well. Sunshine test cemented our thoughts that droplets should not escape.


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## Poppy (Apr 14, 2020)

markr6 said:


> I haven't seen anyone wear something like this yet, but my friend said he saw some guy at the grocery store wearing a WWI style gas mask with the canister hanging from the hose. That had to be a joke, but you never know.
> 
> I wore one of these just yesterday while spraying some camping equipment with permethrin. Not sure it was necessary, but I had it so why not. They're actually very comfortable with the big strap that goes on your head and elastic around neck.


I had four of these and went to the Home Depot to get spare filters for them, and the shelves were bare. No masks, no spare filters. I imagine that they only had a dozen in stock to begin with. The gas mask may not have been a joke, just all that he had and ... what the heck! If you want to protect yourself the surgical mask and cotton cloth mask won't do much. Even the N95 masks are not effective, (for protecting oneself) unless it is fitted properly, and has a tight seal. These masks are MUCH easier to set with a tight seal.

I wore the one with the green nose today. It was 47 degrees F this morning, and I wore a hoodie, and a gortex raincoat over it. I was fine while shopping. But at the checkout I started working up a sweat. Those masks become uncomfortable when you are hot. I could feel the wetness where the mask made a seal against my skin. At first I was uncomfortable taking forced inhales, but after a bit I became accustomed to it, and it was no big deal.

I don't think that anyone looked at me in particular. I do have to say, that I felt safe. When I went to my car I opened the trunk and put the food in. Non perishables to the left, perishables to the right. I took my raincoat off, pulling the sleeves inside out, and folding it into itself, and threw that into the trunk. When I got home, I brought the perishables into the mudroom, sprayed bleach disinfectant on my boots and put them out into the sun to dry. I then brought the perishables into the kitchen, and sterilized the outside of each package before putting it into the fridge. Then I took my shower. Today I did laundry.

Tomorrow (24 hours later) the product in the trunk should be safe. It'll be brought in, and put away, maybe wiped down first. Probably overkill, but what the heck, I spend more time, wasting time than being productive.


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## knucklegary (Apr 15, 2020)

:nana::nana::nana::nana::devil:


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## RedLED (Apr 15, 2020)

Today, my wife cut up one of her bras to use as as masks. The problem is they are too big, and I Can't unhook the thing.


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## Johnnyh (Apr 15, 2020)

RedLED said:


> Today, my wife cut up one of her bras to use as as masks. The problem is they are too big, and I Can't unhook the thing.



🤣[emoji23]🤣[emoji23] Just trying to picture this has me laughing...


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## ven (Apr 15, 2020)

Johnnyh said:


> 藍[emoji23]藍[emoji23] Just trying to picture this has me laughing...



Forget picturing, we need a video


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## Johnnyh (Apr 15, 2020)

ven said:


> Forget picturing, we need a video



There ya go!


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## wacbzz (Apr 15, 2020)

Thank you KG.

postimages.org first.


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## bykfixer (Apr 15, 2020)

Kharma is such a strange beast. 

Yesterday Mrs Fixer made sure everybody working in her store had a nice, washable mask. 
Today corparate deemed her non-essential. 

Now I say strange beast because corparate had passed out a bunch of cheesy masks about as effective as panty hose. 
Yup bare no expense for your staff, right? So had they deemed her non essential just two days ago the entire staff would be facing dozens of strangers on a daily basis in one of the largest outbreak areas in our state. Such is the irony. 
What's that saying? "No good deed goes unpunished"? 

We'll be ok, she's just bummed to be stuck at home for the next while. I suppose I'll come home from work to croche'd slippers, doggy jackets, table cloths, curtains, and who knows what. 

Last evening I remembered a 77 year old dude at my work and asked Mrs. Fixer if she could make just one more mask. He's a really awesome dude and it weighed upon my heart we had not made one for him. 





She made this one for him. 
He stands about 6.5' tall and at 77 could beat three of us pups in basketball by himself. The look on his face was as if it were made out of solid gold. His eyes watered briefly until he contained himself. It made my year.


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## RedLED (Apr 15, 2020)

Fixer, it takes an MBA in order to make a decision like what they did to Mrs. Fixer.


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## bykfixer (Apr 15, 2020)

She's safer now. They did us a favor red. 
She sets to my left making baby booties, gulp. Mechanically that is a distinct unlikely for us as we are both missing stuff for that to happen. Perhaps a young coworker has one in the oven?


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Apr 15, 2020)

Photo Credit - 

Jason Hui


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## scout24 (Apr 15, 2020)

Taking NO chances!


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## ironhorse (Apr 15, 2020)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Photo Credit -
> 
> Jason Hui




No Hardhat?
Steel toe boots?
Elbow and knee pads?


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## Poppy (Apr 16, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Kharma is such a strange beast.
> 
> Yesterday Mrs Fixer made sure everybody working in her store had a nice, washable mask.
> Today corparate deemed her non-essential.
> ...


That was really nice of you and the Mrs. :thumbsup:

I'm wondering where is she getting such a neat variety of flannel?

Hmmm, have all of your flannel PJ's suddenly turned into shorts?


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## bykfixer (Apr 16, 2020)

She made quilts for her boys when they were real young. Her 22 and 23 year old boys that is. 

The mask thing started out as swatches of doggy pattern and kitty patterns of hearts and bows for some ladies she works with. But then found a cache of plaid flannel in her stockpile of fabric. Then there were a few square feet of John Deere tractor print fabric left. 

The hardest part was finding the elastic. It's a new phenomenon accross vuh-jin-yuh to diy masks so toilet paper is easier to find than elastic lately


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Apr 16, 2020)

Back in the day, I'd meet fellow gym-rats five days a week and that was after a full day's work. But when the Lovely Mrs Gardiner would take me in to the fabric store I could feel my will to live draining into the floor. All I wanted to do was lie down and sleep...... probably would've never woken up. :sleepy:


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## Poppy (Apr 16, 2020)




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## jabe1 (Apr 17, 2020)

Bykfixer, which pattern is the Mrs using?
time to re-learn sewing...


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## ven (Apr 17, 2020)

Got to wear safety glasses now..............





I am smiling under the mask.........honest:nana:


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## idleprocess (Apr 17, 2020)

About 6 months ago the SO had some testing done and the clinic told her in alarming tones that she had latent TB _(something that was known, *and they were informed* of prior)_ and they gave me a surgical mask advising me in solemn tones I should wear it in her presence at all times. I wore it out of the clinic to save time explaining to them that after _years_ of living together it hadn't been an issue. I deposited it in the center console after the novelty wore off then eventually disposed of it as recently as 3 months ago.

I've got some low-grade 3M dust masks around - one of them even that gold star of quality N95 - but they've been in the garage for years and their thin rubber straps will surely fail if stretched.

Looks like I'm going to be wearing a 3M half-face respirator around in public with long-expired generic vapor cartridges _for some time_ unless the supply situation changes and I can source a more suitable soft/reusable mask that can accept some sort of filter insert _and has exhalation valves_ since fogging one's glasses is for chumps.


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## scout24 (Apr 17, 2020)

The fogging glasses issue is absolutely no joke, if anyone has a solution for that, you'd probably make a lot of people happy....


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## bykfixer (Apr 17, 2020)

The solution to fogged glasses? 
Wait for it……

Don't wear glasses.

Nah, seriously when I did wood working without adequate ventalation I wore goggles. My Rx for a stigmatism aint very strong so I got used to the blur. 

I'll post something asap jabe.
Edit: 
Here ya go jabe1
https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Cloth-Face-Mask/


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## ven (Apr 18, 2020)

scout24 said:


> The fogging glasses issue is absolutely no joke, if anyone has a solution for that, you'd probably make a lot of people happy....



If the mask is closed around nose, a tad higher up. Rest safety glasses on mask(slightly at base) this helps prevent fogging. But yes its a pain, so much so after i told work these are useless. They then told us not to wear glasses on safety grounds. New ones are on order, maybe they will be goggles........I had suggested a face guard(like Jason is wearing). I do believe they are far better and offer more protection all round. Might not be easy to fit with a hard hat though. Also with the face shields, easy to re-use by a simply wash/disinfect. It helps stop people touching their face 100's of times a day moving, fidgeting with glasses, masks! IMHO they cause more issues than not, i have never touched my face more when wearing a flimsy next to useless mask we have been given.


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## bigburly912 (Apr 18, 2020)

My wife was flipping through the news channels this morning and a poor girl on CNN had a paper type mask on that wasn’t even covering her nose and flipping around everywhere.


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## Poppy (Apr 18, 2020)

Fogged glasses are a PIA
I think goggles are even worse.

Has anyone tried this?
http://www.armorall.com/products/wipes/glass-cleaner-with-anti-fog


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## ven (Apr 18, 2020)

bigburly912 said:


> My wife was flipping through the news channels this morning and a poor girl on CNN had a paper type mask on that wasn’t even covering her nose and flipping around everywhere.




Its a tough one, even with the right PPE, not knowing how to use/wear makes it useless. Even health carers dont get it right, after all we are only human. In fact front line workers are still not getting adequate PPE here . Very frustrating, we have 56 health workers now passed away due to covid19. Giving their lives to help others. This will be all over the world and not just UK.

Very sad times.


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## bigburly912 (Apr 18, 2020)

ven said:


> Its a tough one, even with the right PPE, not knowing how to use/wear makes it useless. Even health carers dont get it right, after all we are only human. In fact front line workers are still not getting adequate PPE here . Very frustrating, we have 56 health workers now passed away due to covid19. Giving their lives to help others. This will be all over the world and not just UK.
> 
> Very sad times.



It really is. Shame somebody didn’t help that poor girl out too. We had a little fabric shop in the next town over making masks for people with a pocket to hold a filter. They put a thick cotton filter in sort of like you would use in the backing of a shadow box or similar display. They work well (functional/wearability wise) and were cheap. No way to put them on wrong either. My wife ordered a bunch of them off of Facebook to give out to people just so they’d have something. What kills me is people throwing blame around like this could have been prevented. There is NO way to stop this thing and it’s just unfortunate. Help your neighbors if you can folks.


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## ven (Apr 18, 2020)

Agree bigburly, it would have helped if China would have been more honest and contained it late last year. Instead of playing it down, which the WHO no doubt played their part to. Its too late now as its everywhere, or if its not yet, it will be. There is no escaping it, it may take a while . The worrying thing is so far, there is no evidence about immunity. So if you get it, recover, you could catch it again! 

Its awesome what your wife is doing, also mr fixer and mrs fixer. Every little helps and shows how awesome humans can be! Until there is a vaccine (already producing before fully testing to save time down the line), we have to work together, help each other where we can. If everyone just did a small thing, it ends up being a huge dfference.

Stay safe bb


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## jabe1 (Apr 18, 2020)

Thanks for the info. I researched and found a few I like. We’re going to try a few with some minor modifications; I want a removable nose pinch wire, and a pocket type so we can add extra filter material. 
I read recently that reusable grocery bags that aren’t the shiny kind are made of the same material as the n95 masks, a different thickness, but same weave; those, I have in abundance.


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## bykfixer (Apr 19, 2020)

Mrs Fixer made a couple of slight mods too Jabe. More about custom size of fit and length of elastic. Yours sound more practical. It is a mask afterall. Well done. Please share your recipe when done. 

Right now in central Va USA everybody is dealing with allergies. I watched over paving a roadway for 2 days and saw lots of masks. Most had then around their neck though. The way it worked was if/when one started to feel symptomatic of a respiratory illness they wore their face covering for that day. Go home, wake up next day feeling ok then go back to work with a mask. A few were like me, where they had stopped taking claratin recently because their vehicles windshields were not coated yellow each morning. Welp there is something in the air that still has had a few of us sneezing and wheezing so out of courtesy the mask gets deployed at times. 

It's easy to stay 6 feet apart when you work out doors but the bosses want us to wear masks when life puts us within 6 feet of each other. Some comply, some don't. But it is interesting to see what folks choose to cover their face with during the pandemic. Favorite sports team, leopard prints, generic cloths etc. I'm starting to see more and more surgical masks. Once the numbers in the US began to show things seemingly were not overwhelming medical facilities I felt a little calmer about wearing a surgical mask since I did not want to be a reason a medical worker does not have one. Right now I still feel that way, but soon I'll pursue some just because they're so convenient. 

For now a home made mask will do or a bandanna.


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## SCEMan (Apr 19, 2020)

So far my wife and I haven't had to wear masks when on our daily walks as we pick empty areas and change sides of the street if we encounter anyone. Of course, on trips to get supplies we wear masks. But our weather forecast is for temps in the 80-90s next week and that won't make for pleasant walking. I guess we'll be walking after dinner. Time to charge up the flashlight batteries...


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## idleprocess (Apr 19, 2020)

Grabbed some cr_ppy KN95 masks since the *masks in public* mandates are surely coming:






And yeah, just as cr_ppy as I remember: _hello fogged glasses_ no matter how hard you try. Hopefully some better options will become available.


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## scout24 (Apr 19, 2020)

I have found breathing in through my nose and exhaling through my mouth, downward, helps some with the fogging. PITA for sure.


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## knucklegary (Apr 19, 2020)

idleprocess said:


> Grabbed some cr_ppy KN95 masks since the *masks in public* mandates are surely coming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those are some cool classic lookin Ray Bans!


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## Poppy (Apr 19, 2020)

A real N95 mask has a exhaust valve, which may be helpful.


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## idleprocess (Apr 19, 2020)

knucklegary said:


> Those are some cool classic lookin Ray Bans!


I've got something like 10 years on those frames. Not sure if I'll be able to update the prescription, which is unfortunate since they were the best Rx lenses I've ever had.



Poppy said:


> A real N95 mask has a exhaust valve, which may be helpful.



Aye, however they're presently _unobtanium_ through retail channels.


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## bykfixer (Apr 19, 2020)

So I got to pondering what a cool cat would wear in a pandemic in previous decades. 





1930's
1934 American Optical welders sunglasses and a blue bandana





1950's
1959 Bausch & Laumb wayfarers (later named Ray Ban wayfarers) and a checkered bandana





1970's
1971 American Optical pilot shades and a red bandana……

I wonder what Elvis would wear


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## RedLED (Apr 20, 2020)

Elvis would have had white leather with a fringe, and silver studs with rhinestones, and his initials.


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## knucklegary (Apr 20, 2020)

Poppy said:


> A real N95 mask has a exhaust valve, which may be helpful.



I hope to see the exhaust valve masks soon.. 
If mandated do you think they'll be handed out "free" as a courtesy at stores entrances


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## nbp (Apr 20, 2020)

knucklegary said:


> I hope to see the exhaust valve masks soon..
> If mandated do you think they'll be handed out "free" as a courtesy at stores entrances



Ha. No. It’s much more fun to require people to use something they can’t possibly source. 

Joking aside, I think that’s a good part of why they say just use anything you have: actual N95s are like hen’s teeth and should be saved for those who really do have sick people coughing in their faces. 

I have some customers asking me to wear a mask when I visit their house. My buddy’s wife is sewing reusuable cloth masks with all kinds of fun prints. I had her make me one with Space Invaders characters on it, haha. I got it today, I’ll have to post a pic later. Should be more comfortable than a bandanna.


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## KITROBASKIN (Apr 20, 2020)

Year plus ago we picked up filter masks from Home Depot (I believe). Used to always get the yellow twin elastic bands because a beard and a mask don't play well together. So this time we bought a dozen or so N95 because of the exhaust valve feature making it easier to breathe out without fogging, etc. *Now* there is guilt and social pressure because I am denying a healthcare worker a needed protective device by wearing it. So old motorcycle Aerostich fleece wind triangle it is. Anyone here ever buy from Aerostich? They had interesting catalogues.

Thing about exhaust valves is, if you are trying to not infect others, seems like the unfiltered exhalation could transmit microdroplets...


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## idleprocess (Apr 20, 2020)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Thing about exhaust valves is, if you are trying to not infect others, seems like the unfiltered exhalation could transmit microdroplets...



The common designs I've seen look to direct exhalation downwards, likely robbing it of both spread and velocity


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## nbp (Apr 20, 2020)

Yeah some N95 have valves, some do not. The good full face respirators are WAY easier to breathe in and out through and are much more comfortable for wearing during something like demolition or painting. But if you wear one to the Walmart you look like a maniac. Lol


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## bykfixer (Apr 20, 2020)

Battery failed on my digital thermometer so I ventured out to score a battery. Made a call or three to source one since a new thermometer is more rare than unicorns right now. 





1983 Maui Jim's and a flag bandanna to dash in and out of a CVS. 

Get back home and the thermometer still said low battery, even with two different new cells. Uh oh. Could be a problem later. That will not do. 
Went out to my truck and grabbed my handy dandy concrete thermometer. Under the tongue said I'm 85 degrees farenheit. Hmmm, under my pit said 97.5. Mrs Fixer said moms add 1 degree when using under the arm pit. 

My son needed one as well so I lurked online for concrete temp reader probes. I kept getting hits for meat thermometers. Box stores showed dozens in stock for pickup at local stores. Venture back out? Well it was raining so most home and gardners should be still dinking coffee and waiting for the rain to stop. 

Just in case I'll wear the good mask. The farmer Brown one with a slice of home hepa filter sandwiched between the 2 layers of cloth. Sun pops out. Uh oh must hurry before the crowd arrives. Sun glare on shiney roads. Aaaauuuugh!! 





2005 Ray Ban wayfarers with shatter resist polarized Zeiss glass Rx lenses for the glare and a home made hepa filter mask for peace of mind.

Glad I had my good mask. It seemed like half the county had the same idea. Well, about 50 people in the store and most wearing masks. Again I noticed seniors not wearing them. Mrs. Fixer ventured off to house plants while I drooled over grills. I grabbed a couple meat thermometers in the grill section and met her on the way out with some flowering bushes for her flower garden. Got in car, opened meat thermometer, stuck it under my tongue, 98.6, nice. 
Due to the novel corona thing I had spritzed the packages with a homemade peroxide applicator.


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## SCEMan (Apr 20, 2020)

Just returned from weekly trip to Trader Joe's market. Sign outside door states a mask must be worn to enter, and employees are all wearing masks now too. No customer reusable shopping bags allowed in the store. Store provides paper bags at no charge.


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## knucklegary (Apr 20, 2020)

I believe masks will be part of the "new normal" in the furure..
Food For Less grocery store was handing out dispenser type disposable masks to customers not wearing one..
While another grocery store could care less about masks. They have signs above produce asking customers to slip a plastic bag on hands while molesting their veggies and melons.. So, go figure..


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## bykfixer (Apr 20, 2020)

If it helps slow the spread, cool.


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## nbp (Apr 20, 2020)

These are by far the most comfortable and allow the best breathing, but you look crazy going in a store with them, so I decided against it.  Notice my lockdown buzzcut... have gone back to just buzzing off all my hair like I did when I was a kid since there's no salons open.




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Here is the fun mask my buddy's wife made. Should be more comfy for wearing at my customer's house tomorrow. 




[/IMG]


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## scout24 (Apr 21, 2020)

NBP- Cannondale bike frame? I've been rocking that buzz cut (with what's left) for many years...


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Apr 21, 2020)

nbp said:


> These are by far the most comfortable and allow the best breathing, but you look crazy going in a store with them ......



Nope! Not crazy by a long-shot. If you want to see some crazy, watch this. - 

Be warned, the video makes a hard right turn toward the political. Don't watch after the crazy masks portion if you're easily melted.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QyrSMfZ6cY&t=0s


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## bykfixer (Apr 21, 2020)

https://www.demilked.com/funny-coronavirus-diy-masks/
Here's some more mask humor……


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## KITROBASKIN (Apr 21, 2020)

What CPF member said that some reusable grocery bags use the same material as some real protective masks? Well I forgot when going out shopping this day to bring anything to cover the face, then saw our grocery bags in the truck that look like they are made of some kind of Tyvek. Boy, I was barely able to (somewhat) tie the handles behind my head but it worked like a charm; no inhalation or exhalation restriction. Goofy looking? You bet. Beats the tar out of using a mid-height basketball shoe though.


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## wacbzz (Apr 21, 2020)

You’re going to get the “okay” anyway...:ironic:


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## nbp (Apr 21, 2020)

scout24 said:


> NBP- Cannondale bike frame? I've been rocking that buzz cut (with what's left) for many years...



I used to do a lot of cycling in my late teens and early twenties. I got that on ebay way back. It’s a Cannondale frame in cutaway view/halved with stickers on it showing all the various construction techniques used to build the frames in the factory. I think it was a promotional piece for a bike shop at one time. It makes for great wall art as it lays flat so it ends up as art in various places. Right now it decorates one of the walls in my little office. 

Indeed, the buzz is definitely low maintenance!

My Space Invaders mask was plenty comfortable to wear for several hours today, so that was good.


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## ven (Apr 22, 2020)

I think scout asked about fogging of glasses. Today we have been given new glasses in work which are anti fog. The brand is Riley and look quite expensive for a safety glass. Will upload pic in afternoon (about 8hrs). They work anyway, impressed. We have to wear these at all times with the mask now on. 

Cheers , stay safe CPF


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## Poppy (Apr 22, 2020)

ven said:


> I think scout asked about fogging of glasses. Today we have been given new glasses in work which are anti fog. The brand is Riley and look quite expensive for a safety glass. Will upload pic in afternoon (about 8hrs). They work anyway, impressed. We have to wear these at all times with the mask now on.
> 
> Cheers , stay safe CPF


Ven,
I hope those fog free glasses work.

When I wear my goggles with my yellow (see better night vision glasses) I look like an Ant Man, especially if I have a hood on. I notice that a couple of people LOOK, but don't stare. Whatever.. I don't care.

At any rate, regarding fogging glasses, If I were to wear this regularly, I would ruin my glasses, and cut the bridge of them to make them fit the nose piece better so that they would sit lower.

Come to think of it, I do have inexpensive clear safety glasses, that I might alter.

Regarding the exhaust on this pair of respirator, the breath exhaust is at the bottom, so as to reduce glass fogging.


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## scout24 (Apr 22, 2020)

nbp said:


> I used to do a lot of cycling in my late teens and early twenties. I got that on ebay way back. It’s a Cannondale frame in cutaway view/halved with stickers on it showing all the various construction techniques used to build the frames in the factory. I think it was a promotional piece for a bike shop at one time. It makes for great wall art as it lays flat so it ends up as art in various places. Right now it decorates one of the walls in my little office.
> 
> Indeed, the buzz is definitely low maintenance!
> 
> My Space Invaders mask was plenty comfortable to wear for several hours today, so that was good.



Cool! 👍 And thanks, Ven. Looking forward to pics.


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## ven (Apr 22, 2020)

I will post a few pics in an hour or so. 
Hopefully allowed , here is a quick link to the said glasses .
I can delete if not 
https://www.riley-eyewear.com/safety-glasses/stream

I have had them on for near 8hrs, there has been ever so slight fogging at times on the outer edges . But it’s a huge improvement over the other safety glasses. It’s a recommend from me so far, it’s not been an issue all day . Quite impressed !

Now in the description I noticed it mentioned an anti fogging coating applied to both sides. So it’s got me thinking, can this be purchased and applied to normal glasses? If so, that might be worth a go to.


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## scout24 (Apr 22, 2020)

Thanks for the link, I'll read up on them later.


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## bykfixer (Apr 22, 2020)

https://www.google.com/search?q=wha...e&ie=UTF-8#kpvalbx=_jz-gXuOgBY2eytMPnJWE-A458

Toothpaste, rain x and shaving creme.


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## ven (Apr 22, 2020)

scout24 said:


> Thanks for the link, I'll read up on them later.




Your welcome, here is a few pics, warning......may contain a good luckin *beep*


























There are string attachments for the stems, so can hang around neck. Also a nice little bag to keep them safe in.


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## bykfixer (Apr 22, 2020)

Mrs Fixer was at it again. 





This time the ear cover quick remove type with a personal touch. 
Note, the non-fog'd glasses thanks to a minty fresh coating of Colgate tootpaste. 





Here's the liner. 
I had 2 odd sized filters going unused so, why not?


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## scout24 (Apr 22, 2020)

Byk- I was waiting for a boots on the ground report. Te toothpaste works?


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## knucklegary (Apr 22, 2020)

Byk, where there's a will there's a way.. born from necessity 👍


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## bykfixer (Apr 23, 2020)

I remember Rain-X anti fog works on under water goggles but in a pinch the toothpaste trick is so far so good. 
Probably have to retreat each time I clean my glasses I suppose.


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## bykfixer (May 1, 2020)

A lady at work who supplies our personal protective equipment asked if I needed masks for our project staff. I said "sure" basically knowing we're covered (no pun intended). She asked what we have been using up to now. I showed her the mask I posted in #90. She did the whole "where, how much" and all that. 

Mrs Fixer did one more. This one the words are hidden until it is deployed. 




The bottom one. 
The top one is mine and after a few days required a second stitch along the bottom.


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## ven (May 1, 2020)

Very , i am sure mrs fixer can make one with flashaholic on for you


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## bykfixer (May 1, 2020)

I considered that early on Ven but the essential personnel thing was a hit with my comrads. So we made more. I was the designer, she was the fabricator. 
Several folks have "essential personnel" stickers plastered on vehicles, tractors and what not as well. Folks mentioned marketing but Mrs Fixer and I were paid way more than money with the smiles and thank you's.






I keep one fastened to my shirt via a top button so it can be quickly deployed. Much more comfy than the draped around my neck thing. When wearing it makes my ears all poke out like but if I'm wearing a mask it's for over fashion any day.


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## idleprocess (May 1, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Several folks have "essential personnel" stickers plastered on vehicles, tractors and what not as well.



I've got mixed feelings on that. I'm "essential" per the CISA guidelines, performing systems support for applications that provision critical communications infrastructure. Save for the fact I haven't been to the office for nearly 2 months, my job hasn't much skipped a beat. In fact my vehicle is averaging _weeks per gallon_ as little as I go any further than 200 meters from my house on foot. And based on what I'm seeing, all I accomplished by printing out said letter was sacrificing toner, paper, and some watt hours. As such I'd feel a little silly donning such a thing as a reasonably well-compensated IT professional in a stable role risking pretty much nothing working from home.

There are certainly others out there for whom there's some new sense of purpose suddenly being cast an _essential employee_, some recognition of the necessary roles they play in society, and possibly winning some respect for what can be thankless, invisible, dangerous - even at the best of times - and poorly-compensated jobs in our economy. So if an OTR truck driver, sanitation worker, lineman, grocery store clerk, hospital employee, maintenance personnel, etc dons the badge _good for them_.


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## bykfixer (May 2, 2020)

The stickers started as a joke on my end. When I received a congratulations from a government agency stating since we in the construction industry have shown we can meet the governments guidelines we have earned the priveledge to keep our jobs. 
Then there was the period we had to don our papers showing that we had the legal right to be out of our homes. 

I handed out stickers to grocery clerks, ems workers, truck drivers, drug store workers and the mailman as thank you cards. It's not some self importance badge. If anything it's a way of saying to the government "You need me a lot worse than I need you right now".


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## Dave_5280 (May 2, 2020)

I bought some masks online and filed the receipt as a claim on my pretax flexible spending account at work and was reimbursed. I’m going to try the same with hand sanitizer and gloves next.


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## bykfixer (May 2, 2020)

My company wrote us an email saying certain "over the counter" items formerly not covered were allowble during the pandemic. No list was attached but it told me you may be right Dave. 

But they are providing those of us not working from home masks, wipes and hand sanitizer. I only use the clorox wipes they provide because I already had masks and home made purrel. I just add the stuff to my medicine closet for next years cold and flu season. The masks they provide are not very good so I'll use those next pollen season.


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## bykfixer (May 7, 2020)

A coworker was concerned about his company not providing decent masks so I gave him my John Deere one. He's a big ole country boy anyway so it was a nice fit to his personality.


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## bykfixer (May 30, 2020)




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## Fish 14 (May 30, 2020)

My wife and I refuse to comply with the mask REQUIREMENT. We've been in dozens of stores without one and will continue to do so.


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## bykfixer (May 31, 2020)

Tied a strip of throw away plastic bag to each side to keep the cheap kind around the neck before entering a place that requires a face covering. 

You can manipulate these for easier breathing and no fogging eye covers. Afterall, if you need a mask you need eye covering too. 





Easy on the neck too. 
I think I'll mail one to my governor to make sure he doesn't forget his in the car next time he's out glad handling the public posing for selfies and kissing babies


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## knucklegary (May 31, 2020)

I like the plastic idea, it can also double as dog doo pick-up.. Actually all these damn masks are full of it (-;


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## bykfixer (May 31, 2020)

Time will tell KG. 

I just saw a neighbors elderly mom pass by without a mask on but was wearing one when she entered his house. She uses a cane now so I'm supposing there's an underlying health issue that has her extra cautious. She's a retired nurse. 

Meanwhile some one within ear shot sounds like they are making ready for a zombie attack. Sounds like a. 357 actually. 

I have a couple of 3.5" x 6.0" US flags on a stick in my home I'm thinking of fashioning into a face covering. Just alligator clip some elastic to wrap around the ears……
Edit: sewed on End edit. 

And now the lady just left the neighbors house without a mask on carrying a plastic dish I speculate she brought over at some point and now says "don't be a bum son, give me back my Tupper Wear". lol 
Meanwhile I hear the sound of a. 38 off in the distance. Dude must've dialed in the. 357 and now is focusing on the backup.


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## bykfixer (Jun 7, 2020)

Will it work? 





Looks like it will





USA USA USA


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## lion504 (Jun 9, 2020)

Probably not, unless your goal is spreading patriotism. 

Fabric likely too porous, and doesn't seal good on sides and top.

"The researchers used an aerosol mixing chamber to produce particles ranging from 10 nm to 6 μm in diameter. A fan blew the aerosol across various cloth samples at an airflow rate corresponding to a person's respiration at rest, and the team measured the number and size of particles in air before and after passing through the fabric. *One layer of a tightly woven cotton sheet combined with two layers of polyester-spandex chiffon* -- a sheer fabric often used in evening gowns -- filtered out the most aerosol particles (80-99%, depending on particle size), *with performance close to that of an N95 mask material*. Substituting the chiffon with natural silk or flannel, or simply using a cotton quilt with cotton-polyester batting, produced similar results."

Purchased some spandex chiffon at JoAnn Fabrics. Pretty hard to work with, since it's slippery and slightly elastic. But the masks came out pretty good.


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 9, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Will it work?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very Patriotic. But one or two layers of flags won't be effective. Sadly very difficult to reproduce the layers of an N95 or KN95 or FFP2 commercial masks with what is most commonly available as raw materials to skilled individuals for DIY projects. 

Though again, as others have said, Mrs. fixer has made some very nice masks.


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## bykfixer (Jun 10, 2020)

Thanks


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## bykfixer (Jul 5, 2020)

My local grocery store had these US made masks for 99 cents each. (10 pack for $9.99)





There were 4 people checking customers out. I bought 5 packs and gave each cashier a pack while keeping one for giving away to people at my work.


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## Katherine Alicia (Jul 5, 2020)

My partner and I wearing ours a couple of weeks ago


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 5, 2020)

Katherine Alicia said:


> My partner and I wearing ours a couple of weeks ago



Do you walk around all day saying - "Arg matey."?  

:welcome:


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## KITROBASKIN (Jul 5, 2020)

Ah the pirate life for thee.. 
Here in USA, it's so typical that many will take an adversity and make it an avenue of self expression. Of course many will find a way to make money off of those desires to show one's self. Wondering if different areas of USA have different levels of mask individuality. Even more so wondering how other countries in the world do it. Is there a lot of 'mask fashion' going on in Russia, Latvia, Korea, Costa Rica?


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## Monocrom (Jul 5, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> My local grocery store had these US made masks for 99 cents each. (10 pack for $9.99)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Okay, I'm genuinely concerned. KN95s are Made in China. Not America. The U.S. market was recently flooded with fake KN95 masks. There's really only two ways to tell. Both result in ruining a mask from the pack. I actually made a video on my YouTube channel on how to tell if you get fake KN95s vs. real ones. But I won't link it here, as I don't want to be accused of self-promotion on CPF. So I'll link a couple of different videos from different content creators that show the two methods. I hope you got the real thing. But that price for a 10 pack of KN95s sounds far too low. 

LINKS ~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zex4DuB7apA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2vnoRuZ3Cs


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## Katherine Alicia (Jul 5, 2020)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Do you walk around all day saying - "Arg matey."?
> 
> :welcome:



well No, but now that you mention it, I`m sure I can adopt it!


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## bykfixer (Jul 5, 2020)

Opening the package I see they are Chinese made. No matter Mono because I poked a hole in mine so I can smoke while wearing it.

Good ole American know how
https://www.facebook.com/eatcallahans/videos/286535589423224?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo


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## Modernflame (Jul 5, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> My local grocery store had these US made masks for 99 cents each. (10 pack for $9.99)



That kind is savage on the backs of my ears. Maybe I just have a really big face that stretches the mask, but those things pull my ears so hard that I look like someone left the car doors open. Still trying to find the ideal mask.


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## Poppy (Jul 6, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Opening the package I see they are Chinese made. No matter Mono because I poked a hole in mine so I can smoke while wearing it.
> 
> Good ole American know how
> https://www.facebook.com/eatcallahans/videos/286535589423224?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo



bykfixer,
That's funny!!!


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## Monocrom (Jul 6, 2020)

Modernflame said:


> That kind is savage on the backs of my ears. Maybe I just have a really big face that stretches the mask, but those things pull my ears so hard that I look like someone left the car doors open. Still trying to find the ideal mask.




Sounds like you have a large face. KN95s tend to wear a bit big on an average Adult Man's face. Etsy.com is a good place to look for XL sized masks. They're going to be the hand-sewn/ re-usable variety. You want to look for one with a nose-wire and a filter pocket mentioned in the listing. The problem with Etsy is they let literally anyone open up a shop on the website. Before the pandemic hit and I started buying up masks on Etsy, my satisfaction with the far too many shops I'd ordered from in the past through Etsy.... 40%. Since buying up masks, it's gone up to 60%.

Size listings are also subjective as hell based on individual sellers. One seller's Olson style mask listed as an "XL," is going to be an "L" from quite a few other sellers offering the same style of mask. Thankfully, I've waded through the cesspool that is (sometimes) Etsy. 

Check out the following two shops on there. I'm not affiliated with either one. I've only purchased masks from both shops in case a neighbor or acquaintance should ever need a true XL size mask.

ElfinForestCreations

QuarantineQuarafts 

BTW, Etsy also has shops that sell filters of all kinds. Both commercial and homemade ones too. (Some that are even washable and re-usable.) Since I don't wear an XL mask, I'm worried if a recommend shops on there that sell filters, the ones for your mask might be too small. You'll have to judge the proper size for yourself. 

Hope this helps.


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## Monocrom (Jul 6, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Opening the package I see they are Chinese made. No matter Mono because I poked a hole in mine so I can smoke while wearing it.
> 
> Good ole American know how
> https://www.facebook.com/eatcallahans/videos/286535589423224?vh=e&d=n&sfns=mo




That's definitely Meme worthy.


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## bykfixer (Aug 1, 2020)

Do masks help keep from spreading a virus? 

You decide

https://www.popularmechanics.com/sc...9/blowtorch-coronavirus-face-mask-experiment/

Please don't try this at home.


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## raggie33 (Aug 1, 2020)

mask or no mask. trust the experts! if ya want something fixed call me . if ya need medical advice as a docter.dont be afraid to admit your wrong. listen to experts not some guy on the internet


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## idleprocess (Aug 1, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> Do masks help keep from spreading a virus?
> 
> You decide
> 
> ...



Ah, _Uncle Rob's Life Tips_ - amusing, opinionated, and gasoline is almost always involved.


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## cy (Aug 1, 2020)

CDC just published an article this month (May 2020) in which they review all scientific and medical studies from the 1940's to the present and conclude that masks have "no effect" on the transmission of viruses.
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article


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## cy (Aug 1, 2020)

clothe face masks are next to worthless with 97% pass through .. 

STUDIES SHOW Penetration of cloth masks by particles was 97%! So they're telling us to wear masks to possibly not breath in 3% of harmful particles?!? They said masks do more harm than good, democrat governors trying to kill us?! 

A cluster randomised trial of cloth masks compared with medical masks in healthcare workers
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/5/4/e006577.full.pdf

Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

Nature - Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face masks
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2

https://www.who.int/publications/i/...of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak


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## harro (Aug 2, 2020)

They’re mandated here as of midnight tonight, although Melbourne and environs have had that mandate for the last couple of weeks. The state of Victoria has a population split of roughly 5 Million people for Melbourne and surrounds, the rest of the state totalling approximately 1 Million people. In country Victoria, we have been quite lucky, with few cases. Melbourne has been locked down with travel very much restricted, although like anywhere else, we get the freedom of expression people, and COVID naysayers, etc. The one thing both cloth and paper masks will effectively stop, is a $200 fine for not wearing one.


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## cy (Aug 2, 2020)

Lockdowns do NOT reduce fatalities in the long run. (The proof is in.)

https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden

Deaths will plummet on their own. Hospitalizations will plummet on their own.
Lockdown. Don't lockdown. It's doesn't matter.

The virus will run its course. The same as the annual viral season has run its course for all of recorded history.

Just live your lives.


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## bykfixer (Aug 2, 2020)

When I first started this thread not much was known about how this novel virus was spread. Was it like a flu virus? One that causes a head cold? What climate could it survive in and for how long? Not much was known at that time. So a place here at CPF to discuss home made approaches to face coverings was begun while there was not a lot of medical type face coverings available. Now that there are plenty of choices it comes down to whether you choose function or fashion to halt droplets leaving your person when unable to stay the reccomended 6-8' (2-2.5m) apart. 

It might not be possible to know how well covering our faces to stop our droplets from becoming air born from a statistical perspective since so many choose to not wear one, so I added a demonstration video that has nothing to do with rules, regulations, statistics or anything else except to show the mask your dentist wore before the pandemic was to stop their droplets from getting on you. 

This thread has nothing to do with whether you should or shouldn't be required to cover your face. Hopefully it'll stay that way.


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## nbp (Aug 2, 2020)

Agreed, thank you Bykfixer. Cy, it might be good for you to relax a bit. You’ve made your opinion clear in the other CV19 thread. This thread is about showing your masks, not the efficacy of lockdowns or social distancing. Thanks.


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## Kestrel (Aug 2, 2020)

Please correct postings that have a picture size of greater than 800x800; otherwise they may be deleted as I on occasion lack the patience to politely edit posts, simply to facilitate poster compliance with forum rules. This can also include quotes containing oversized pics.

Thank you & best regards.


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## bykfixer (Aug 2, 2020)

Recently a prominent doctor tossed out the notion of eye coverings in addition to face coverings. It kinda surprised me that it took so long to mention since prior to the pandemic studies showed folks who wear glasses tend to get less head colds. Being the novel corona is in the same family it was surprising up to now no real talk about eye protection was taking place. 

Enter the face shield. It can accomplish a lot of things all in one product. I'll mention Mrs Fixer here. She has major hearing loss and depends on lip reading a lot. Clear face shields help there. Your iPhone may not like the 'mask' at facial recognition. Perhaps the face shield will aid with that. They are certainly less restictive for breathing. It can also help others see smiles on peoples faces, it halts droplets from becoming horizontal projectiles from sneezing or coughing. Actually the wearer will see how much it halts. They generally don't have a lot of fogging issues. They protect your eyes too. They are fairly easy to find online for a couple of bucks each for a cheap plastic kind with elastic headband. 
My only qualm with the face shields I own are how the head band interferes with my prescription glasses. But if you don't wear glasses they are fairly comfy. So my point is perhaps we will be seeing more face shields in use and this may be a good place to discuss the work arounds for folks who wear glasses, have a ginormous dome, want to wear a ball cap with theirs or other issues that plague the alternative to 'masks'.


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## Kestrel (Aug 2, 2020)

cy said:


> CDC just published an article this month (May 2020) in which they review all scientific and medical studies from the 1940's to the present and conclude that masks have "no effect" on the transmission of viruses.
> https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article


I just read that entire article in detail with the suspicion that its conclusion was not as overarching as you make it to appear.

Your provided summation is inaccurate enough to be misleading in at least *four* major factors, for those who take forum posts at face value and do not examine the citation in detail. For one example, *the article was not a review by the CDC as you claim, it was a instead a review by a postgraduate student in Hong Kong, China* - /big/ difference. 

I could go on with a detailed critique of the article (an aspect I have had 30 years of professional training in), but please keep in mind that I am not here to debate specifics, I am here to moderate discussion threads - so replies to my post are not needed.

We had some issues in the prior thread with these sorts of posts, so staff will be less indulgent of them here.
A wider variety of speculation is often more welcome in the CPF Underground.

Thank you & best regards,


----------



## Kestrel (Aug 2, 2020)

As a public service announcement, members need to keep in mind that there can often be a disconnect between summary posts and linked supporting content.

Without reading in detail, things are often not as simple / cut&dried as they appear to be, and this can often be made worse by *confirmation bias.*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

For anyone with an interest in this thread topic, I would *HIGHLY* recommend a review of the Wiki article I have linked to; the synopsis of which I am quoting below;

Thank you & best regards,




Wikipedia said:


> *Confirmation bias* is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information that confirms or supports one's prior beliefs or values.[1]​ It is an important type of cognitive bias that has a significant effect on the proper functioning of society by distorting evidence-based decision-making. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. For example, a person may cherry-pick empirical data that supports one's belief, ignoring the remainder of the data that is not supportive. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. The effect is strongest for desired outcomes, for emotionally charged issues, and for deeply entrenched beliefs.
> 
> Confirmation bias is a broad construct covering a number of explanations. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).
> 
> ...


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## bykfixer (Aug 2, 2020)

Nessicity is the mother of invention, right? 

Well thanks to inventions prior to me and a bit of internet searching I came up with a bykfixer mod to a face shield so it can be comfortably worn with readers, shades or prescription glasses. 

Things needed: 
Oridinary hole puncher
Thin plastic face shield
Scissors



So to put on a ball cap (or helmet/hard hat) I trimmed about 1/2" off the top of a "face shield" brand shield so my ball cap can go on my melon without shoving down on the shield. (just trim off the part that says face shield)





See how high up the top is? 






Next I punched two holes side by side on both sides of the shield. 





Then I fed the arms of my glasses into the holes and that was that. 





Here ya go. 
The shield is way more clear than appears. Face part blurred by photo editor in case my mug is on the side of a milk carton or post office wall somewhere.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 2, 2020)

I heard somewhere that they are saying now that the virus can be airborne NOT in a droplet form such that the particle size could be smaller than a mask can stop. A particle that small could navigate around a face shield too as you breath and move around and with breezes.


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## Monocrom (Aug 2, 2020)

Cloth face-masks which incorporate a filter pocket, stuffed with a good disposable filter (such as a disposable PM2.5 filter, which BTW is easily available online) and that have a nose-wire as part of the design for that much needed tight fit on the face.... can help protect both the wearer and others around them. This information is out there. I'm not going to bother posting a bunch of links that only help support my point of view while leaving out dissenting links. Anyone wanting to educate themselves, can do so.

As far as masks go. Received a comment on one of my mask videos on YouTube. Thanks to a technique I demonstrated, one of my Subscribers was actually able to determine that the KN95 masks sold through a very popular department store in his country.... are all fakes! 

I advised him to contact the local news and report the story. This is a huge scandal. The sooner those fakes are pulled from store shelves, the better! One of my videos may have prevented another round of outbreaks in a foreign country. Screw views or subscriber counts, that's far more important.


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## Kestrel (Aug 2, 2020)

I'm going to go out on a limb here & guess the fake N95's came from China ?


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## idleprocess (Aug 2, 2020)

Kestrel said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here & guess the fake N95's came from China ?



Given that KN95 is a Chinese standard (very comparable to N95 when competently-executed) I'd be less than shocked if the forgeries also came from China. Myself I've sourced two batches of KN95s, with the early batch being clearly superior.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 3, 2020)

Thank you for pointing out, bykfixer, that this is not the place where we come together to mask-debate.  




bykfixer said:


> When I first started this thread not much was known about how this novel virus was spread. Was it like a flu virus? One that causes a head cold? What climate could it survive in and for how long? Not much was known at that time. So a place here at CPF to discuss home made approaches to face coverings was begun while there was not a lot of medical type face coverings available. Now that there are plenty of choices it comes down to whether you choose function or fashion to halt droplets leaving your person when unable to stay the reccomended 6-8' (2-2.5m) apart.
> 
> It might not be possible to know how well covering our faces to stop our droplets from becoming air born from a statistical perspective since so many choose to not wear one, so I added a demonstration video that has nothing to do with rules, regulations, statistics or anything else except to show the mask your dentist wore before the pandemic was to stop their droplets from getting on you.
> 
> This thread has nothing to do with whether you should or shouldn't be required to cover your face. Hopefully it'll stay that way.


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## bigburly912 (Aug 3, 2020)

I’m so ugly when I started wearing a mask my company gave me a raise. 🙁


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## knucklegary (Aug 3, 2020)

:laughing:


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 3, 2020)

I wonder how deaf people that lip read are dealing with this mask business.... talk about double deaf.... yikes!


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## ironhorse (Aug 3, 2020)

Not deaf, profound hearing loss in both ears due to medical issues. Right ear is useless. I have implants which help, but no where near to normal in hearing.
I didn't think that I read lips, until everybody put on masks. Guess what, I did read lips and didn't realize it. I'm lost now.


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## Sos24 (Aug 3, 2020)

ironhorse said:


> Not deaf, profound hearing loss in both ears due to medical issues. Right ear is useless. I have implants which help, but no where near to normal in hearing.
> I didn't think that I read lips, until everybody put on masks. Guess what, I did read lips and didn't realize it. I'm lost now.



So sorry to hear of your trouble. I know there are some masks with clear plastic for that exact reason, but unfortunately that only helps if the people you are interacting with have and wear them.


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## KITROBASKIN (Aug 4, 2020)

Sos24 said:


> So sorry to hear of your trouble. I know there are some masks with clear plastic for that exact reason, but unfortunately that only helps if the people you are interacting with have and wear them.



Purchased a box (24) of ClearMask; something around $3 per. Not made for my big nose. Nice side ventilation (no trying to breathe through 3+ layers of fabric, causing most of the breath to go up, down and around, depending on how ill fitting. I am certainly no expert) but more free exchange than most masks if they are fitted properly to the face, exhalation valves notwithstanding. Curiously the mask began to smell of plastic after a while, then the smell receded. Maybe I got used to it? I was bicycling some; sufficient air to exercise but the warm behind the mask next to lips was noticed. The suspension (EZ Adjuster) is good; much better than pulling the ears. It was also large enough to have the top part go over the bike helmet (important to keep the mask stable as it is rather rigid unlike more flexible fabrics). The box says not medical but the website describes how useful they are to medical people: 

 Single use only. Latex-free. Anti-Fog. Protection complies with applicable ASTM level 3 standards for fluid resistance and flammability. Recommended for use indoors at room-temperature in ventilated, low-humidity environments.

 There's an informational slip of paper inside the box giving specifications, with a stamp showing Quality Control passed on July 10, 2020 and clearly stating made in China, though no sign of origin on website that I could find, or on the exterior of the box. 

Given that I work with special education students, including sometimes autistic spectrum, kinders and can get called in when a kiddo becomes unregulated, I thought it might be useful for them to see more of my normal face (such as it is), but really it is not normal looking. We will see how it works where the rubber meets the road soon enough. After labor day, schools may go to hybrid with students attending in person. I'm ready to kick the tires and light the fires, whatever maskage. Our district is supplying masks to staff but not students. They'll need to provide their own.

"Good Housekeeping" article on these kinds of masks:

https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/health/g33471599/best-clear-face-masks/


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## raggie33 (Aug 4, 2020)

a town a few towns from me started school again first day a student is tested postive now the entire class is in quatine


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## bykfixer (Aug 4, 2020)

Good info KB


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## Monocrom (Aug 6, 2020)

Kestrel said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here & guess the fake N95's came from China ?



Yes. However, the real ones do too. 
That's the aggravating part.


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## Kestrel (Aug 6, 2020)

Monocrom said:


> Yes. However, the real ones do too.
> That's the aggravating part.


Well that's certainly odd; I just checked my inventory of N95's, and my two brands were manufactured in Mexico and the US.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 6, 2020)

Kestrel said:


> Well that's certainly odd; I just checked my inventory of N95's, and my two brands were manufactured in Mexico and the US.


Not necessarily it depends on when they were made as production of goods has moved out of the US to China and Mexico as time has progressed and trade agreements have changed. They are now making TV sets in Mexico with parts from China instead of making them in China totally. It is possible that the same company now owns a plant in Mexico and also has had them made in China either at one time or now.


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## Kestrel (Aug 6, 2020)

I confess to being a bit tongue-in-cheek; all of my N95's were purchased near the end of this February, and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that those production lines (i.e. in the US & Mexico) haven't shut down since then ?

I think that anyone who buys China-mfg PPE shouldn't be surprised when they get the manufacturing quality, QC, and QA that they purchased.
You many not receive what you want, but you do get what you buy.


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## lion504 (Aug 6, 2020)

At the beginning of the pandemic, N95s were sold out and cloth masks weren't available (due to lack of demand). So I resorted to making my own. My DIY efforts produced a quality mask, but each one took a really long time. Painstakingly long. But I cranked out about 2 per family member. And they served us very well (so far). Now that the kids are going back to school, we needed ~5 per child. The thought of cranking out double digit masks by hand before the first day of school caused night sweats... 

Fortunately, after only a little research, I discovered that the market has improved substantially. We were quickly and easily able to locate some reputable and established USA vendors making N95-like cloth masks (with inventory) at a price and quality at least equivalent to (if not better than) DIY. Very pleased. Capitalism at its finest!


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## idleprocess (Aug 6, 2020)

My present setup _(I have two)_, arrived at after considerable trial-and-error:







Inner soft respirator w/ exhaust valves
Inner modified _monolithic_ KN95 respirator to serve as primary filter media
Outer surgical mask

The underlying reasoning for this insanity was to _first_ deal with the relentless tendency of all other masks I've tried to fog my glasses, _second_ improve upon the horrific "activated carbon" filters that nearly all the cheap soft respirators ship with and _third_ filter my exhalation.

On the first point it's reasonably successful - I'm not required to perch my glasses precariously far out on my nose. Glasses rarely fog but short of an actual proper flexible seal it's inevitable that they fog occasionally. Breathing effort is acceptable. Yes, I've read all the tips on how to keep your glasses from fogging with sewn masks and the either don't work, are seemingly written by people that don't actually wear eyeglasses/are unworkable in practice, or demand unacceptable additional work on my part to address a *fundamental design flaw*. Also, the wraparound design is more stable and secure.

On the second point, the basic KN95 monolithic respirator has become rarer - or at least good ones have. I purchased 10 from the local Asian market in March and have depleted 6 either using as intended or in the course of using them as filter media. I more recently procured another 10 from Amazon which might pass the "candle test" but are clearly inferior to the first batch with 1 less layer and less substantial overall construction; I expect their working lives to be shorter. After ~8 hours usage I air these out in my garage for a few days once or twice before discarding them. I procured a 3/4" arch punch to speed the modification process and cut cleaner holes for the exhaust valves; I would have preferred a papercraft punch ala Fiskars but the market doesn't seem to make anything in 3/4" with sufficient _throat depth_.

On the third point, the basic surgical mask protects others from me and fulfills a requirement to filter exhaust some of the places I go. It also means that I always have a backup mask if needed. Surgical masks are also fairly easy to find.



If this drags on for another year I hope that industry will come up with something like a low-profile full-face CPAP mask that addresses issues of air leakage, comfort, minimizes obstruction, is possibly transparent, and robust serviceable filter media is readily available. There are some _crowdfunded_ concepts that hit some of these points but to me they're still well short of the mark and/or gimmicky _(the one with UV-C lights is hilarious - who doesn't want a pair of Li-Po cells strapped to their face?)_


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## Monocrom (Aug 6, 2020)

Kestrel said:


> Well that's certainly odd; I just checked my inventory of N95's, and my two brands were manufactured in Mexico and the US.



Okay, that's not a good sign. I actually have a video on my main YouTube channel in which I show the two different ways to tell if one's KN95 masks are real or fake. I don't want to be accused of self-promoting my channel here on CPF so here's a link to one method that other content creators have posted as well. 

The other test is to cut into the mask. You're looking for a melt-material. It looks like brand spanking new, white parchment paper. It'll look like one layer. But upon closer examination it's going to be two layers pressed together. Take a lighter to those pressed-together layers. The material should melt. If it burns, catches on fire; you have a fake mask. Unfortunately using either technique to test a batch of masks means ruining one mask to be sure the others are real. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zex4DuB7apA


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## idleprocess (Aug 6, 2020)

Monocrom said:


> Okay, that's not a good sign. I actually have a video on my main YouTube channel in which I show the two different ways to tell if one's KN95 masks are real or fake.



I suspect you're talking past each other. Kestrel has consistently been mentioning N95 (the NIOSH standard) while you and I are talking about KN95 (the Chinese GB2626-2006 standard): comparable but slightly different standards when competently executed. As far as I know, KN95s were only very recently were they allowed to be imported to the United States and are pretty much only sold as casual PPE outside of professional/medical supply chains.


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## Kestrel (Aug 6, 2020)

Kestrel said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here & guess the fake N95's came from China ?





Monocrom said:


> Yes. However, the real ones do too.
> That's the aggravating part.





Kestrel said:


> Well that's certainly odd; I just checked my inventory of N95's, and my two brands were manufactured in Mexico and the US.





Monocrom said:


> Okay, that's not a good sign. [...]


Sorry, I've tried to make my point in an understated fashion, but I guess something lacked in the delivery;

What I meant is that my real masks that meet the specification, came from the US & Mexico.

For the people who purchased China-mfg masks and received fake ones that did not meet the comparable standard - well, they got /exactly/ what they bought.


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## Kestrel (Aug 6, 2020)

idleprocess said:


> I suspect you're talking past each other. Kestrel has consistently been mentioning N95 (the NIOSH standard) while you and I are talking about KN95 (the Chinese GB2626-2006 standard): comparable but slightly different standards when competently executed.[...]


Yes, thx. That last part drills down to the point I've been trying to make politely - without needing CPF staff to moderate my posts, lol.

I believe that anyone purchasing a China-mfg respirator mask should not have the expectation that it meets any standard whatsoever.


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## idleprocess (Aug 6, 2020)

Kestrel said:


> I believe that anyone purchasing a China-mfg respirator mask should not have the expectation that it meets any standard whatsoever.


The first batch I bought probably met KN95 standards _(reasonably robust construction, well-packaged, included a certificate)_; the second batch not so much. My exposure being considerably less than _occupational_, I just want a filter media that's robust enough to last for 2 or more ~8-hour periods since I'm only occasionally venturing out in public and generally for no more than 60 minutes at a time. If sewn masks worked for me I'd be using them with blue shop towel inserts, which are comparable-_ish_ to N95 media, bountiful, and cheap enough that tossing them after each use isn't painful on the wallet.

I would _not_ rate the design of the semistandard KN95 respirator equivalent to the typical N95 respirators that one could source as recently as February-March at the likes of Home Depot. Better than a sewn mask for sure, but just not the same as the actual 3D-formed respirators.


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## bykfixer (Aug 7, 2020)

I'm going to pose the question "why do you wear a mask" with another sub question; for incoming or outgoing virus? 

By the time New York was stuck with massive numbers and the predictions were likened to being in a Costco and by the time I left 2 people would be dead with 14 having gotten sick in that Costco (based on statements like 2.2 million will die in the next 30 days), my thoughts were "incoming" virus. At the time medical gade face coverings were pretty rare in my area. Even dust masks were gone from store shelves. And thermometers? Forget that, those are like toilet paper. 

Mrs Fixer and I set out to create some medical grade-ish face covers and distribute them to loved ones and coworkers to ensure everybody in our circle was protected during the "45 days to slow the spread" period. At some point it became reccomended (then later mandated) to have prtoections for "outgoing" virus due to a large portion of aysymptomatic folks spreading the virus. So we sought out or created dentist type face covers and that's where we still are. 

At one point I bought some KN95 masks to give away and gave away most but the common reaction to the medical grade-ish and those KN95's was "I can't breath with that on". Realizing you do get used to the reduced airflow after a while it is not something most _want _to get used to so they end up wearing a cloth face cover. Now that cases are rising again it seems the public has gone back to wearing face covers for "incoming" again. 

Hence why I posed the question above. I'm just curious what other folks have in mind regarding face covers.


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## Katherine Alicia (Aug 7, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> I'm going to pose the question "why do you wear a mask" with another sub question; for incoming or outgoing virus?
> 
> Mrs Fixer and I set out to create some medical grade-ish face covers and distribute them to loved ones and coworkers to ensure everybody in our circle was protected during the "45 days to slow the spread" period.



My intention from the start was outgoing, I`m of the philosophy that if I`m meant to catch it I will, even if I hid under my bed all day! but I couldn`t live with the idea that I`d hurt someone else. And similar to yourself, when it first really took off and all the hand sanitizer vanished everywhere except eBay at £20+ for a 50ml bottle! I bought 20x 100ml spray bottles and filled then with 90% IPA and made the rest up with water (you Need some water for it to work!), and the rest was glycerine to stop hands drying out. and also gave them away to friends an family and neighbors with a promise of a refil anytime they needed one. (I had gallons of 99.9% IPA for circuit board cleaning).
Same as the masks, I would hate to think that one of my friends or neighbors had gone down with it and I did nothing to help stop it happening when I could.
it`s quite funny with the masks though, even when I cough I still cover my mouth with my hand! LOL


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## Poppy (Aug 7, 2020)

Initially I wore a half face respirator, with eye glasses, a gortex rain-coat with hood up, for self protection.
I didn't leave my property, except to get food, every 7-10 days.
When I went shopping, it was either pick up at store, with online pre-order, or go during "senior hours" which are first thing in the morning, after covid had a chance to die off during the night, and there is limited access so that the number of patrons is reduced during that time.

Now... I wear a surgical mask, which is much more comfortable.
Not so much to protect others, as I have been tested three times and have been negative each time. Each member of my family has tested negative also. Since I associate with no one outside of my family group, it is very unlikely that I will get the virus.

I wear the mask for two reasons. 
1. It is required by law.
2. It maintains conformity, and others wear mask when in public (which helps to protect me and my family).

Recently I have made multiple mid-day runs to Target, and/or the Home Depot, and universally everyone is wearing a mask.
I have had to tell a number of people... "Hey! We're supposed to maintain 6 feet, right?" 

The old people who used to congregate inside Dunkin Doughnuts, now sit outside, about 2 feet apart, with out masks. 
And young teens gather there sitting on the ground, in a close circle, again... without masks (or at least without them pulled up).


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## Poppy (Aug 7, 2020)

Although a few months ago, New Jersey's numbers were among the worst in the country, they are now one of the best. That has allowed me to relax a bit regarding quality of mask wearing, and therefore a surgical mask.

A recent survey of parents in my community, showed that 81% plan to send their kids to school, when it opens. I suspect that our numbers will go off the charts shortly after that happens, and I'll go back to full protective gear, to protect ME when I go out into public.


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## idleprocess (Aug 7, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> I'm going to pose the question "why do you wear a mask"



Masks are required by local authorities and businesses
Wearing a face mask that filters one's inhalation and exhalation meaningfully reduces the odds of transmitting or contracting the virus

On the latter point, I seem to be _asymptomatic_ - or nearly so - with a large number of respiratory conditions while those around me get ill.



bykfixer said:


> with another sub question; for incoming or outgoing virus?


Both. While my efforts revolve significantly around _incoming_, I wear the outer surgical mask for _outgoing_ even when I'm somewhere that's not picky about them. The _filtration_ effectiveness of a surgical mask is marginal relative to N95/KN95/FFP2/PM2.5/etc media, but much of the point is to intercept exhaled water droplets (which basic cloth masks are effective at) or rob them of their velocity so any viral particles exhaled within fall out of the air quickly.


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## ven (Aug 7, 2020)

Had this for a couple of weeks now, keep in car in its little carry bag. Handy for nipping in shops etc






Quite comfy to. Its good enough to retain any cough being quite thick, so should help protect others if ever required(hoping not!)

Stay safe and have a great weekend CPF


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## SCEMan (Aug 7, 2020)

bykfixer said:


> I'm going to pose the question "why do you wear a mask" with another sub question; for incoming or outgoing virus?
> Hence why I posed the question above. I'm just curious what other folks have in mind regarding face covers.



Here in SoCal, the virus is surging most everywhere so we feel very much at risk in public (being in the late 60's bracket and my wife with a history of respiratory problems). From the start, we've worn N95 masks when shopping indoors and surgical or cloth masks outdoors in open areas where social distancing is practiced. While walking in our largely empty neighborhoods we aren't masked, but carry them if needed. As the infection/death rate hits new highs almost daily, we can't afford to take chances.


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## bigburly912 (Aug 8, 2020)

https://apple.news/AisURKy_uS9OkcWMItP-8cA


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## LeanBurn (Aug 9, 2020)

I live in a rural setting. Other than that I don't go out.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 13, 2020)

What do ya'll think of this video? 

 

Asking for a friend.


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## idleprocess (Aug 13, 2020)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> What do ya'll think of this video?



More than 5 months into this pandemic and that video _still misses the point_ that masks intercept the water droplets that respiratory bugs hitch a ride in on the way out of the lungs, which even sewn masks are reasonably effective at intercepting. Heck, professional N95/N100 filter media has pores larger than the COVID-19 virus, but it's what medical professionals use outside of self-contained/positive-pressure Level B/Level A PPE for far more intensive hazards. Also of note perfection isn't the goal for low-risk non-occupational exposure, just meaningful reduction of transmission and reception since it's thought to take thousands of viral particles ingested in a very short period and common pathway for an infection to take root.


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## Katherine Alicia (Aug 14, 2020)

I`m going to my father in laws funeral next week, and apparently gloves as well as masks have to be worn throughout the entire thing, including in the car.
It`s probably so they don`t have to deep clean after every service because normally as you`re leaving new people are coming in (it`s a bit conveyor belt really).
I`m not sure I like the idea of wearing gloves for a few hours in this heat!


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## KITROBASKIN (Aug 14, 2020)

idleprocess said:


> More than 5 months into this pandemic and that video _still misses the point_ that masks intercept the water droplets that respiratory bugs hitch a ride in on the way out of the lungs, which even sewn masks are reasonably effective at intercepting. Heck, professional N95/N100 filter media has pores larger than the COVID-19 virus, but it's what medical professionals use outside of self-contained/positive-pressure Level B/Level A PPE for far more intensive hazards. Also of note perfection isn't the goal for low-risk non-occupational exposure, just meaningful reduction of transmission and reception since it's thought to take thousands of viral particles ingested in a very short period and common pathway for an infection to take root.


"With meaningful reduction" being the operative phrase here. But the comparison is very telling; just wish a well fitted N95 mask without exhalation valve, demonstrated by just talking would have been included. The fellow was blowing out pretty hard. Hopeful though, that this video will quell the holier than thou, excoriating pronouncements of the 'superior' cloth mask with the superhero filters.


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## bykfixer (Aug 14, 2020)

idleprocess said:


> More than 5 months into this pandemic and that video _still misses the point_ that masks intercept the water droplets that respiratory bugs hitch a ride in on the way out of the lungs, which even sewn masks are reasonably effective at intercepting.



Exactly!!


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## knucklegary (Aug 14, 2020)

^^ +1.. well said Idle


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## raggie33 (Aug 14, 2020)

idleprocess said:


> More than 5 months into this pandemic and that video _still misses the point_ that masks intercept the water droplets that respiratory bugs hitch a ride in on the way out of the lungs, which even sewn masks are reasonably effective at intercepting. Heck, professional N95/N100 filter media has pores larger than the COVID-19 virus, but it's what medical professionals use outside of self-contained/positive-pressure Level B/Level A PPE for far more intensive hazards. Also of note perfection isn't the goal for low-risk non-occupational exposure, just meaningful reduction of transmission and reception since it's thought to take thousands of viral particles ingested in a very short period and common pathway for an infection to take root.


duh! i could not resist lol


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## idleprocess (Aug 14, 2020)

KITROBASKIN said:


> "With meaningful reduction" being the operative phrase here. But the comparison is very telling; just wish a well fitted N95 mask without exhalation valve, demonstrated by just talking would have been included. The fellow was blowing out pretty hard.



That video demonstrates interception - or lack thereof - of _vape pen smoke_, which almost certainly has different characteristics than exhaled water vapor.

More objective comparisons of performance:






KITROBASKIN said:


> Hopeful though, that this video will quell the holier than thou, excoriating pronouncements of the 'superior' cloth mask with the superhero filters.


Better filter media _is better filter media_, which mostly matters for occupational exposure. But if using something perceived to be better than 2 layers of cloth _(not used at the expense of medical workers, emergency responders, others facing *occupational* exposure)_ is what it takes for someone to wear a mask, why not?

I do wish I'd stop being subject to _wunderkind_ crowdfunding pitches on the likes of for nanotech-infused antiviral masks, UV-C masks, what look to be anti-pollution masks shoehorned into a bad CPAP mask design, and other snake oil. I _*would*_ like to see a decent CPAP-like design _(lightweight rigid mask, low-profile, around-the-head strap, generous flexible seals, decent/serviceable media)_ emerge from this insanity since just about every facemask I've seen or tried has an _improvised_ feel to it.


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## turbodog (Aug 15, 2020)

Katherine Alicia said:


> I`m going to my father in laws funeral next week, and apparently gloves as well as masks have to be worn throughout the entire thing, including in the car.
> It`s probably so they don`t have to deep clean after every service because normally as you`re leaving new people are coming in (it`s a bit conveyor belt really).
> I`m not sure I like the idea of wearing gloves for a few hours in this heat!



Probably most _any_ glove will suffice. Find some thin, breathable black cloth gloves and nobody will notice. Throw some latex gloves in your pocket in case someone wants to push the issue.


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## nbp (Aug 15, 2020)

I don’t quite understand the glove obsession. I don’t think people stop to think about how gloves work. They end up being a buzzword to signal “safety”. For a lengthy situation like that where people are touching many surfaces, gloves are pointless. The virus doesn’t leave your through your hands so it’s not like you’re “containing it” inside the glove. Anything you touch that is contaminated will contaminate your gloves or bare hands equally. Gloves only work if they are discarded immediately (and properly) after touching something yucky. I see people wearing gloves (to make me feel safe of course) but cross-touching absolutely everything. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining; those gloves aren’t keeping you or me any safer. Just wash your dang hands. Fortunately, most people don’t have critical thinking skills so they see gloves and are effectively pacified by the policies meant to protect them from all the scary things.


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## Katherine Alicia (Aug 15, 2020)

turbodog said:


> Probably most _any_ glove will suffice. Find some thin, breathable black cloth gloves and nobody will notice. Throw some latex gloves in your pocket in case someone wants to push the issue.




Yeah, I might do something like that actualy, we have a bunch of gloves on order now anyway, it just seems a bit over the top really.

LOL, I had to laugh the other day when out shopping, I saw someone pull down their mask to pick their nose! I mean really digging in there trying to get a winner, completely shameless, and then put the mask back on and commence shopping again. it was a real WTF moment for me, I kinda expected hidden cameras.
it really is a good argument for wiping down all your food as soon as you get home, covid or not, who wants That!??? :eeew:


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## Monocrom (Aug 15, 2020)

idleprocess said:


> I do wish I'd stop being subject to _wunderkind_ crowdfunding pitches on the likes of for nanotech-infused antiviral masks, UV-C masks, what look to be anti-pollution masks shoehorned into a bad CPAP mask design, and other snake oil. I _*would*_ like to see a decent CPAP-like design _(lightweight rigid mask, low-profile, around-the-head strap, generous flexible seals, decent/serviceable media)_ emerge from this insanity since just about every facemask I've seen or tried has an _improvised_ feel to it.



Agreed. Though unfortunately, I don't see that happening. The individuals most active out there are the con-men trying to promote masks that common sense should tell folks aren't going to work. Problem is, seems common sense is so frighteningly rare nowadays that it's considered a Super Power among those who possess it.


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## Lynx_Arc (Aug 15, 2020)

Logically speaking which is a "safer" surface for the virus to camp out on... a glove or a hand that has been washed with soap recently?


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## Katherine Alicia (Aug 15, 2020)

Lynx_Arc said:


> Logically speaking which is a "safer" surface for the virus to camp out on... a glove or a hand that has been washed with soap recently?




well I don`t really know enough about that sort of thing to say in all honesty, but I would Imagine/Guess that a glove would be probably safer since a hand may have soap residue on it still and our own microbes would probably give it a hard time too.
but those are the rules, we all have to wear gloves at the funeral as well as masks, which is going to get really messy if people start crying and want to blow noses etc...


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## knucklegary (Aug 15, 2020)

Wrestled with the pooch and after 5mins finally got it on her muzzle

..turned my back to get camera.. :shrug:


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## Greta (Aug 15, 2020)

Got my new mask this past week. Actually very good quality!


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## KITROBASKIN (Aug 15, 2020)

From the esteemed idleprocess:

"Better filter media _is better filter media, which mostly matters for occupational exposure. But if using something perceived to be better than 2 layers of cloth (not used at the expense of medical workers, emergency responders, others facing *occupational* exposure) is what it takes for someone to wear a mask, why not?"


__The vape video clearly shows how most exhalation goes around, not through the mask. Adding more layers, whatever the quality or permeability, will further impede exhalation by the wearer through these homespun public-use masks. So yes, (boastfully) crowing about that kind of mask-belief may help others buy into that con.

And now that the main viral shutdown thread here on cpf has resumed I will endeavor to not continue this line of opinion here, on the fixer's thread. 
_


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## knucklegary (Aug 15, 2020)

^^ Lookin good Greta.. I wouldn't get anywhere near your bubble!


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## raggie33 (Aug 15, 2020)

are all 3 ply mask the same ? they sure look to be the same


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## raggie33 (Aug 17, 2020)

im 95 percent sure my freind has covid 19 . what scares me she is a teacher. ill let you know more when i find out mynother freinds are now better but they said it was the hardest thing they been thru


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## Whitelight1 (Aug 17, 2020)

I don't wear masks. Yesterday I went to Lowes, Home Depot, Target, a gardening store, and a carpeting store. The workers at Home Depot don't wear them in the garden center. People don't wear them at the smaller self owned stores like the gardening store or the carpeting store, but they have one handy in case someone is wearing one when they come in to make them feel better. I am going to work at the office (attorney) in a few hours to do some paperwork for some people, we never wear masks. We always shake hands. We go about our lives and all those stores I mentioned never have even asked me to wear a mask.

The latest crap they are feeding us I saw 3 days ago....except it was finally true. Wearing masks long periods will give you upper respiratory illnesses (like wearing a cpap) and also mask mouth (similar to meth mouth but from your mask drying out your mouth and rotting your teeth).

So even though it is mandated in my county to wear one, when I pass another no mask wearing person we smile, knowing the truth about the entire control the population issue and walk on by. My best friend has Covid and she has not left her house in weeks. We're all going to get Covid. it's just when.


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## bykfixer (Aug 18, 2020)

Having trouble remembering to carry a face cover when you leave home? 





Tie a 6-8" (30-40cm) string to the ear straps and wear as usual when needed. 





When not required it's easy to carry.


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## markr6 (Aug 18, 2020)

I started wearing a mask everywhere a couple weeks before it was mandatory. But I'm not sure it helps because...


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## raggie33 (Oct 4, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

Was in walmart this am the store greeter asked a jerk to wear a mask he just cused at her and walked in.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Oct 4, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*



raggie33 said:


> Was in walmart this am the store greeter asked a jerk to wear a mask he just cused at her and walked in.



If I was a Walmart manager, I'd instruct the greeters to ask - "Good morning. Did you forget your mask?" After posing that question, the greeter's responsibility is complete.

It should not be the responsibility of the greeters to request that customers abide by the state's/store's mask policy. That task should fall to someone much further up the store's pay scale.


----------



## raggie33 (Oct 4, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

I agree 100 percent . Poor greater has a tough job in today's world with covid


----------



## PhotonWrangler (Oct 4, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

Wal-Mart greeters need one of these - 

(Click)---Fwoosh---thwap!


----------



## Poppy (Oct 4, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

LOL... that looks like a Dude Perfect stunt!


----------



## bykfixer (Oct 4, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

I'm noticing the words "dust mask" on a lot of packaging lately. Then the obligitory fine print "does not prevent spread of disease" or similar. 

At my local Food Lion they have a (Mrs Fixer term) mask nazi assigned at the entrance. I call them "the hall monitor" or "safety patrol" my grade school days. And they do offer a "dental mask" type face cover to those without one. Most come prepared. My twin brother was in the store while I was. He dresses like Darth Indiana Jones. Darth Vader gater, big ole black NRA shades and a black Indiana Jones hat. He says he likes going into stores now for the privacy. But he also wears safety yellow reflective clothing so he kinda stands out really.


----------



## Poppy (Oct 4, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

Months ago, Dr Campbell of youtube fame spoke of it being a good idea to keep one's hair short, and or wearing a hat.
Corona, can adhere to hair.

Also the use of goggles, or at least eye-glasses, may also be helpful/protective to oneself to reduce the chance of becoming infected by way of the eyes.

Yeah... the obligatory fine print is everywhere... "Don't climb on this ladder after consuming alcohol... warning falling hazard!"

I wonder if our UK friends see as much fine print "cover your a$$" as we see over here in the US.
Their laws make for fewer frivolous lawsuits than ours.


----------



## raggie33 (Oct 4, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*



PhotonWrangler said:


> Wal-Mart greeters need one of these -
> 
> (Click)---Fwoosh---thwap!



I want one lol


----------



## idleprocess (Oct 5, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*



bykfixer said:


> I'm noticing the words "dust mask" on a lot of packaging lately. Then the obligitory fine print "does not prevent spread of disease" or similar.



The face masks being marketed to the general public can perhaps _aspire_ to level C and would not be appropriate for anything approaching occupational exposure. Thus, one imagines the lawyers are suggesting it's best to disclose to the buyer that there are no guarantees that some mediocre dust/surgical/_{Vague*Something*}_95 mask doesn't meet any real standards.


----------



## LeanBurn (Oct 5, 2020)

Whitelight1 said:


> I don't wear masks. Yesterday I went to Lowes, Home Depot, Target, a gardening store, and a carpeting store. The workers at Home Depot don't wear them in the garden center. People don't wear them at the smaller self owned stores like the gardening store or the carpeting store, but they have one handy in case someone is wearing one when they come in to make them feel better. I am going to work at the office (attorney) in a few hours to do some paperwork for some people, we never wear masks. We always shake hands. We go about our lives and all those stores I mentioned never have even asked me to wear a mask.
> 
> The latest crap they are feeding us I saw 3 days ago....except it was finally true. Wearing masks long periods will give you upper respiratory illnesses (like wearing a cpap) and also mask mouth (similar to meth mouth but from your mask drying out your mouth and rotting your teeth).
> 
> So even though it is mandated in my county to wear one, when I pass another no mask wearing person we smile, knowing the truth about the entire control the population issue and walk on by. My best friend has Covid and she has not left her house in weeks. We're all going to get Covid. it's just when.




Ditto.


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 8, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*



bykfixer said:


> I'm noticing the words "dust mask" on a lot of packaging lately. Then the obligitory fine print "does not prevent spread of disease" or similar.
> 
> At my local Food Lion they have a (Mrs Fixer term) mask nazi assigned at the entrance. I call them "the hall monitor" or "safety patrol" my grade school days.



Call them what you will, they have a tough job to do. Dealing with one, obnoxious, selfish piece of humanity who if he or she lived in a different country, might find himself in handcuffs being tossed into a cage for a significant length of time like they do in Qatar. 

Also, considering what the actual Nazis did, it's more than a bit offensive that there are others who refer to these employees as such.

Helped an INFJ with deformed genitals and an Oliver Hardy moustache to murder millions of innocent people *vs.* Politely reminding customers to please do the right thing. Yeah, I just don't see the similarities. Maybe that's just me though.


----------



## raggie33 (Oct 8, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

I will wear a scuba suit if it would keep others safe


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Oct 8, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

I just returned from shopping at a local Albertsons. Upon entering the building another male shopper with his mask underneath his chin, greeted me with a smile and said - "Take your off your mask, man!" 

I replied - "I know, I hate wearing one, but it's not the hill worth dying on." He smiled again and said - "Yeah, I guess not."


----------



## SCEMan (Oct 10, 2020)

Looks like we'll be flying to visit my daughter and family for Christmas and was wondering what mask type would be best for air travel. I typically wear an N95 in risky environments but this wouldn't be suitable for extended use on the plane (although I will wear it in the airport).


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 18, 2020)

SCEMan said:


> Looks like we'll be flying to visit my daughter and family for Christmas and was wondering what mask type would be best for air travel. I typically wear an N95 in risky environments but this wouldn't be suitable for extended use on the plane (although I will wear it in the airport).



The softer material KN95 masks protect just as well as an N95, and are great for extended use. Unfortunately, you do have to watch out for fakes. Thankfully there is an easy test to tell the real thing from the fakes. Order a pack of 5 or 10. Take one out of the pack. Hold it carefully by the ear-loops. Get someone to pour a bit of water inside of it. Keep holding it. After literally a minute or two, if you see water droplets forming and falling from the mask, yours are fake. The real ones won't leak at all. 

Also, get another one that's dry, cut it open. You should see something that looks a bit like brand new parchment paper. Nice and white. It'll appear to be one piece. But in reality will be two very thin layers. That's the melt material. Take a lighter and apply it to the material. It should simply melt. If it flames up like an ordinary piece of paper, the mask is fake. Only ways to tell if you got real ones or if you got tricked into buying fakes. Yeah, you ruin the tested masks. Small price to pay to know for certain though. 

Also, sorry for a bit of a late reply. Awhile back I did a video on YouTube demonstrating this method in a bit more detail. My mask videos are the most popular ones on my channel. I've been busy fielding questions from anxious individuals. Including one very unfortunate case of a teacher who tested his KN95 mask after finding my video. However, this was after he spent hours in a crowded setting teaching others. His mask leaked, even though he mentioned being very careful with it. I could tell he wanted some reassurance and comfort. It's gut-wrenching when you have none to give. I don't sugar-coat anything _that_ important. I told him to no longer use the KN95s he got as part of the same pack, and that he needed to get himself tested immediately. When you have real ones, they're great protection and they feel very comfortable even with hours of continued wear. Speaking from experience.

Best bet will be any online, legitimate, medical supply warehouse. A general online search is a good idea. Even then, best to still test out the ones you get. Really hope this helped.


----------



## SCEMan (Oct 18, 2020)

Monocrom said:


> The softer material KN95 masks protect just as well as an N95, and are great for extended use. Unfortunately, you do have to watch out for fakes. Thankfully there is an easy test to tell the real thing from the fakes. Order a pack of 5 or 10. Take one out of the pack. Hold it carefully by the ear-loops. Get someone to pour a bit of water inside of it. Keep holding it. After literally a minute or two, if you see water droplets forming and falling from the mask, yours are fake. The real ones won't leak at all.
> 
> Also, get another one that's dry, cut it open. You should see something that looks a bit like brand new parchment paper. Nice and white. It'll appear to be one piece. But in reality will be two very thin layers. That's the melt material. Take a lighter and apply it to the material. It should simply melt. If it flames up like an ordinary piece of paper, the mask is fake. Only ways to tell if you got real ones or if you got tricked into buying fakes. Yeah, you ruin the tested masks. Small price to pay to know for certain though.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the detailed response. Much appreciated.


----------



## TONY M (Oct 19, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*



Monocrom said:


> Also, _*considering what the actual Nazis did,*_ it's more than a bit offensive that there are others who refer to these employees as such.



I personally don't see the big issue that some people have wearing masks. Even the asthmatic friends of mine are very happy to wear masks to protect themselves and others, it's really a non issue for most people I've talked to because they feel it's the right thing to do and at most is a mild inconvenience for them. 

Although before I was born my home town was devastated by Nazi bombing, and I have to say that being asked to wear a mask by a individual at a shop door who is tasked with customer safety isn't exactly a big inconvenience at all.  Stopping a car for red traffic lights is a greater inconvenience isn't it? Yet few people make a fuss over them these days.




Monocrom said:


> ...to murder millions of innocent people *vs.* Politely reminding customers to please do the right thing. Yeah, I just don't see the similarities. _*Maybe that's just me though. *_



_*It isn't just you.*_


----------



## 5S8Zh5 (Oct 20, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*

As a result of this co vid, I started wearing a mask while cleaning the kitty litter lol.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (Oct 20, 2020)

*Re: Coronavirus - II*



5S8Zh5 said:


> As a result of this co vid, I started wearing a mask while cleaning the kitty litter lol.



You need a respirator to do that


----------



## idleprocess (Oct 20, 2020)

Monocrom said:


> The softer material KN95 masks protect just as well as an N95, and are great for extended use. Unfortunately, you do have to watch out for fakes. Thankfully there is an easy test to tell the real thing from the fakes. Order a pack of 5 or 10. Take one out of the pack. Hold it carefully by the ear-loops. Get someone to pour a bit of water inside of it. Keep holding it. After literally a minute or two, if you see water droplets forming and falling from the mask, yours are fake. The real ones won't leak at all.
> 
> Also, get another one that's dry, cut it open. You should see something that looks a bit like brand new parchment paper. Nice and white. It'll appear to be one piece. But in reality will be two very thin layers. That's the melt material. Take a lighter and apply it to the material. It should simply melt. If it flames up like an ordinary piece of paper, the mask is fake. Only ways to tell if you got real ones or if you got tricked into buying fakes. Yeah, you ruin the tested masks. Small price to pay to know for certain though.



It's pretty simple to do this with one mask - water test first with a small quantity of water, then if it passes cut a sample from the _dry_ upper portion of the mask to perform the flame test.

I've procured KN95s 3 times. Two appear to be genuine (tested one lot) and one I'm so sure is fake I'm not going to bother testing them.


----------



## bykfixer (Oct 25, 2020)




----------



## Monocrom (Oct 28, 2020)

Well.... Literally just got off the phone with my best friend of 30 years. 

Give you guys one guess why I'm making a personal post in this thread.

His boss knew that a certain employee who works with my best friend and others, was infected. But kept his mouth shut because he's one of those individuals who thinks Covid-19 is a joke. Yeah, no one at that place of business is laughing now. Both my best friend and his wife have a couple of pre-existing health conditions. 

I'm going to end this post now, because otherwise I'm very likely to post something _far_ from Family Friendly if I keep going.


----------



## PhotonWrangler (Oct 28, 2020)

bykfixer said:


>




Wait! Covid was standing on the grassy knoll?! :tinfoil:


----------



## bigburly912 (Oct 28, 2020)

Monocrom said:


> Well.... Literally just got off the phone with my best friend of 30 years.
> 
> Give you guys one guess why I'm making a personal post in this thread.
> 
> ...



Serious question and not stirring the pot. Did this business not require masks? I’ll keep your friends in my thoughts.


----------



## raggie33 (Nov 7, 2020)

Things will be better now . science can fix this so someday mask will only be worn in Madre gras or halloween


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 8, 2020)




----------



## knucklegary (Nov 8, 2020)

Byk, and here I thought you deleted the posts.. 

I am beginning see the new light :candle:


----------



## ledbetter (Nov 8, 2020)

bykfixer said:


>


Looks like the mask is wet with tears. Why you crying?


----------



## knucklegary (Nov 8, 2020)

I don't think you're seeing tears of joy..

Byks mask is more than likely saturated with vomit


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 8, 2020)

I just wondered how many here even knew what that means. (referrence to the show Dallas)
It was actually fresh out of the plastic package to be used for a grocery store trip where it looked like March all over again. 
Panic shoppers galore. But this time it looked like they were thinking the Frito Lay factory and Pepsi plant are closing soon. lol. Good gosh the carts were all bursting with Cheetos and Dr Pepper. I guess they got tired of Ramen noodles and Red Baron frozen pizzas. 

At the checkout the seasoned citizen check out lady said "I think Covid finally killed Luke". (referrence to the show General Hospital where they killed off Luke a couple of times)


----------



## bykfixer (Nov 8, 2020)




----------



## knucklegary (Nov 8, 2020)

^ Verified :lolsign:


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 20, 2020)

bigburly912 said:


> Serious question and not stirring the pot. Did this business not require masks? I’ll keep your friends in my thoughts.



Very sorry for the long delay in replying.
Please check your PM Inbox. 
Thank you for keeping my friends in your thoughts.
It is genuinely appreciated.


----------



## bykfixer (May 23, 2021)

With all of the mandates being lifted I was just curious if folks still cover their face in gas stations or grocery stores. 

I've relegated to dental masks as they are fairly comfy for brief periods of an hour or less. Meanwhile many businesses are still requiring employees to wear them. 

I still wear one. How about you?


----------



## Katherine Alicia (May 23, 2021)

Yup, and will continue to wear one for a month or two after my second shot (June 7`th). Personally I hope it catches on and becomes a courtesy thing like it is in Japan, got a cold? Wear a mask, it`s polite.


----------



## jabe1 (May 23, 2021)

I still wear one when I’m indoors with others not from my family. I imagine that many of those not wearing masks are the unvaccinated who were anti mask in the first place. I can’t risk the health of the children that I come in contact with.


----------



## SCEMan (May 23, 2021)

Yep. Still wear one indoors in public venues. Was at an outdoor wedding last Friday and only a couple folks wore masks. Pretty windy day I doubt there was any risk.


----------



## PhotonWrangler (May 23, 2021)

SCEMan said:


> Yep. Still wear one indoors in public venues. Was at an outdoor wedding last Friday and only a couple folks wore masks. Pretty windy day I doubt there was any risk.



I was at a store yesterday where they dropped the mask reqirement for fully vaccinated people. Everyone (including me) was still wearing them.


----------



## Lynx_Arc (May 23, 2021)

It's wonderful to see people's faces again here after suffering with a faceless society for over 9 month.


----------



## JimIslander (May 23, 2021)

Never wore one out of doors (not required where I live, ever). Good science that it was never necessary out of doors. Since vaccination I don't wear one in stores that don't require it. If the store asks for it, I will definitely wear one. But almost none are in my State. About 6 COVID deaths per week in our state. Population, just over 5M.

Remember, there was no vaccine for the Spanish Flu. No masks were being worn in 1921. We'll all get there.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (May 23, 2021)

JimIslander said:


> Never wore one out of doors (not required where I live, ever). Good science that it was never necessary out of doors. Since vaccination I don't wear one in stores that don't require it. If the store asks for it, I will definitely wear one. But almost none are in my State. About 6 COVID deaths per week in our state. Population, just over 5M.
> 
> Remember, there was no vaccine for the Spanish Flu. No masks were being worn in 1921. We'll all get there.



No masks!? How did they virtue-signal? :laughing:


----------



## KITROBASKIN (May 23, 2021)

JimIslander said:


> Remember, there was no vaccine for the Spanish Flu. No masks were being worn in 1921.



This site requires registration:

https://newsela.com/videos/vid-mask...sk6w_GH86KW_9saQEDixGg_253OAplyWLLdD2Y5W5xqyI

NARRATOR: Welcome to the Museum of Artifacts That Made America and the story of a piece of personal protective equipment that divided the nation.
From February 1918, to April 1920, the world was gripped by one of the deadliest pandemics in human history. Caused by a virus, Spanish influenza spread rapidly. Infecting one third of the world's population and killing up to 50 million people.
Although the name suggests that the virus originated in Spain, scientists think it could have begun in Great Britain, China, or even the United States.
In America, public health experts made a number of recommendations to curb the spread of the virus, including the closure of schools, social distancing measures, and the wearing of face masks in public. Sounds familiar, right?
The San Francisco mask ordinance signed by the mayor in October 1918 was the first order requiring the wearing of face masks in public in the United States. Mask slackers who refused faced a fine or up to 10 days in prison. The Red Cross manufactured and distributed masks. Some were made of gauze and other porous materials, which we now know rendered them ineffective.
Many people saw wearing a mask as a patriotic duty and complied. The Seattle Daily Times even ran a story on women in the city who had decorated their masks with chiffon. But some people complained that face masks were a violation of personal freedoms. Still, San Francisco's mask ordinance remained in effect for what seemed to locals like a never-ending four weeks.
When the ordinance expired, people rejoiced in the streets by throwing their masks in the air. Some US physicians would later lay blame for a second wave partly at the hands of those who touched and adjusted their face masks or cut holes in them to smoke cigarettes.
Fast forward 100 years, and wearing a mask is, once again, a highly contentious issue.


----------



## bykfixer (May 23, 2021)

Good story Kitro. 

Mrs Fixer and I went to a few stores today and most patrons had face covers.


----------



## idleprocess (May 23, 2021)

The state mask mandate in Texas was ended in March. Now TX localities are forbidden from enforcing mandates. I suspect that both are _trailing_ measures - COVID-19 hospitalizations + deaths are down, vaccinations are ongoing (something like 30% of the state is now fully vaccinated), flu season has ended, and those that are going to socially distance and wear face masks will likely continue to do so. I sincerely hope that we are indeed back to normal and flu season is relatively uneventful.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan (May 23, 2021)

This lady in the grocery store today who was maskless, said something about me being maskless. LOL!!


----------



## raggie33 (May 25, 2021)

im vacanted fully woohoo i never need protection any more. but im wearing mask just incase .


----------



## Katherine Alicia (May 25, 2021)

From what I can tell there`s been some sort of new "alert" that was kinda hidden, about the new Indian variant and some stuff said about muslims and hijabs, I didn`t catch all of it, there were travel alerts for certain parts of the UK as well.
all I could think was "here we go again", I`m starting to feel a little jaded about the whole thing now.
My daughter was sent home from school today in tears (the day before she finally leaves anyway) because 2 people she sits next to have it, so she`ll miss her school leavers assembly because of it, all because they made the lateral-flow tests Optional.


----------



## PhotonWrangler (May 25, 2021)

Katherine Alicia said:


> From what I can tell there`s been some sort of new "alert" that was kinda hidden, about the new Indian variant and some stuff said about muslims and hijabs, I didn`t catch all of it, there were travel alerts for certain parts of the UK as well.
> all I could think was "here we go again", I`m starting to feel a little jaded about the whole thing now.
> My daughter was sent home from school today in tears (the day before she finally leaves anyway) because 2 people she sits next to have it, so she`ll miss her school leavers assembly because of it, all because they made the lateral-flow tests Optional.




What are lateral-flow tests?


----------



## raggie33 (May 25, 2021)

wow the second shot is kicking my butt


----------



## raggie33 (May 25, 2021)

ps dont let this discroage you .its worth it


----------



## PhotonWrangler (May 25, 2021)

Look at the bright side - now you know that you didn't get a placebo! From the people I know who've had 0+*symptoms from the second shot, those symptoms are usually gone in a day or so.


----------



## raggie33 (May 25, 2021)

the person giving it was new . she seemed scared i told her she did a great job .


----------



## Katherine Alicia (May 26, 2021)

PhotonWrangler said:


> What are lateral-flow tests?




these: https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesse...-a-rapid-lateral-flow-device-lfd-test-at-home
they`re free and kids are supposed to test 3 times a week, the result is posted to a .Gov website, but they made it optional, so now all the lazy or "special snowflakes" are spoiling it for the rest of the kids that are taking the tests, there`s only a 70% take-up.
It should have never been optional.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (May 26, 2021)

Katherine Alicia said:


> these: https://www.nhsinform.scot/illnesse...-a-rapid-lateral-flow-device-lfd-test-at-home
> they`re free and kids are supposed to test 3 times a week, the result is posted to a .Gov website, but they made it optional, so now all the lazy or "special snowflakes" are spoiling it for the rest of the kids that are taking the tests, there`s only a 70% take-up.
> It should have never been optional.



So, are they supposed to test or are the tests optional? Why do you feel free to ascribe laziness to all those that choose to not participate in an optional testing program? That's a very broad brush you're painting with. Labeling people as special snowflakes is nastiness not worthy of CPF.


----------



## Katherine Alicia (May 26, 2021)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> So, are they supposed to test or are the tests optional? Why do you feel free to ascribe laziness to all those that choose to not participate in an optional testing program? That's a very broad brush you're painting with. Labeling people as special snowflakes is nastiness not worthy of CPF.




well that`s where you`re wrong Again! I actually Speak to some of the other Moms at the school and know for a fact that it`s laziness and can`t be bothered or "my special snowflake isn`t going to...", I think you should know by now that I choose my words carefully. But as always, you`re so eager to try pick a fight or prove a point, that completely overlook the simple things that ultimately undo you and make you look silly.
now kindly go bother someone elses leg


----------



## orbital (May 26, 2021)

+

Katherine, at what point are you comfortable with 'enough's enough's' on testing.

please understand, I'm not cornering you on this



****
a 'snowflake' in the US is different than one in the UK


----------



## raggie33 (May 26, 2021)

at least we can all agree a rubiks cube is cubed shaped


----------



## Katherine Alicia (May 26, 2021)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Katherine, at what point are you comfortable with 'enough's enough's' on testing.



When everything that can be reasonably done, Is being done to keep our children safe. 
Laziness or Exceptionalism is no excuse.


----------



## Greta (May 26, 2021)

Katherine - CPF has a wide variety of members that hold many different opinions. In most cases, none are wrong. Especially when the opinions come from different countries, cultures, and sources. 

I have to agree with Chance here... _"__That's a very broad brush you're painting with. Labeling people as special snowflakes is nastiness not worthy of CPF."


_Please be mindful of that in your future posts. And if you find this topic too volatile for you, the best thing to do is step away... or take it to the Underground.


----------



## bykfixer (May 26, 2021)

Wasn't this once a mask thread?


----------



## archimedes (May 26, 2021)

Katherine Alicia said:


> ... removed quote.....



Please re-read the "single most important rule of the Underground" ... it's the first one listed, in *red,* on the front login page. Thanks in advance


----------



## scout24 (May 26, 2021)

:laughing: We're now "If you're vaccinated, no mask required" here in Pennsylvania. Adoption of that as policy is slow, with some businesses not taking their Masks Required signs down, and employees still masked. A slow but welcome return to "normal"...


----------



## raggie33 (May 26, 2021)

im going to wear a mask till the country is 90% vaccinated. i hate wearing them but i would hate to cause anyone health issues


----------



## archimedes (May 26, 2021)

bykfixer said:


> Wasn't this once a mask thread?



Yes, it would be good to return to the thread topic now.

A reminder that discussion here on CPF should be focused on the issues, in other words, on "the post, not the poster" .... In today's unfortunately hyper-politicized environment, it is worth glancing at one's post on anything controversial, and if there is heavy use of the word *"you"* then perhaps the argument is getting overly personalized.

There are plenty of other forums for that type of discussion, while instead we would like to keep CPF friendly and inviting to all. Polite disagreement and reasoned debate is perfectly fine, but there is no need for unpleasant interactions here.

Much thanks !


----------



## knucklegary (May 26, 2021)

After a small scuffle with a surfboard I'm wearing masks with no argument


----------



## wacbzz (May 26, 2021)

Wrong thread. Sorry.


----------



## bykfixer (May 26, 2021)

knucklegary said:


> After a small scuffle with a surfboard I'm wearing masks with no argument


Doh!! Ouch. 

I saw one the other day where the mask was the face of a hockey player. You my friend could sell that photo.


----------



## knucklegary (May 26, 2021)

The good news is I can now loogie 20ft!

Byk, it only hurts when I laugh


----------



## knucklegary (May 26, 2021)

... right into a glass of apple beer!


----------



## bykfixer (May 26, 2021)

That'll look good on your tombstone KG


----------



## raggie33 (May 26, 2021)

dont forget your mask which i do most the time.


----------



## Greta (May 27, 2021)

We've been without masks here in Arizona for quite some time now and our numbers are just about negligible. Hell, I don't even have the county website bookmarked anymore. :shrug: - Life is definitely NORMAL here again! And my daughter and I have finally planned a trip to Vegas in July. We both have our vaccination cards if required but don't expect to have to produce them. It is *SO AWESOME* to be able to plan something and have something to look forward to! AND - my husband has been called back to work at Home Depot after being on furlough for almost a year now because they have finally removed their mask mandate. Life is good... again. Thank The Powers That Be.


----------



## bykfixer (May 27, 2021)

My state drops the 6' rule and capacity rule tomorrow. I think there are still some mask rules remaining like riding on mass transit. If I recall correct the vac rate is over 40% in my state. 

We've been a while between rain events so the air is pretty dusty with oak and grass pollens. It's not unusual to see folks walking around outside with masks on.


----------



## raggie33 (May 27, 2021)

anyone face and nose itch like crazy with mask? im sure its psychological


----------



## PhotonWrangler (May 27, 2021)

Actually the more I think about not touching my face, the more I feel a need to touch it. It's an odd conundrum.


----------



## bykfixer (May 28, 2021)

We're still not supposed to touch our face? Oops. 
I thought that rule went away with the antacid pill cure.


----------



## knucklegary (May 28, 2021)

This morning sitting in traffic watching a good lookin blonde driving a Lexus scratching inner sinus with her index finger. I'm thinking how happy she is about CA lifting mask mandate 

I stopped wearing conundrums years ago (;


----------



## Poppy (May 31, 2021)

Last week I was in the supermarket, wearing a mask. I had to sneeze. What a dilemma!


----------



## Lynx_Arc (May 31, 2021)

bykfixer said:


> We're still not supposed to touch our face? Oops.
> I thought that rule went away with the antacid pill cure.



You either need arms 6 feet long or have to be vaccinated outside or some other nonsense to pick your nose.


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## idleprocess (May 31, 2021)

I'm about 50/50 on wearing a face mask myself these days. If a place requires it (i.e. Costco, pharmacy) I wear it, otherwise I'm apt not to - been fully vaccinated for more than a month now and the inconvenience is, well, _inconvenient_.


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## raggie33 (May 31, 2021)

i was at store the other day and this daamn talking cat told me to check the margin


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## Greta (Jun 1, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> I'm about 50/50 on wearing a face mask myself these days. If a place requires it (i.e. Costco, pharmacy) I wear it, otherwise I'm apt not to - been fully vaccinated for more than a month now and the inconvenience is, well, _inconvenient_.



I went to a local apothecary to get my vaccine - and didn't wear a mask either time. No one said a word. The pharmacy tech behind the glass was not wearing one either. I used to have a mask stuffed in my purse - just in case. I threw it away last week.


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## idleprocess (Jun 1, 2021)

Greta said:


> I went to a local apothecary to get my vaccine - and didn't wear a mask either time. No one said a word. The pharmacy tech behind the glass was not wearing one either. I used to have a mask stuffed in my purse - just in case. I threw it away last week.



Even if the epidemic keeps on a downward trajectory it's going to be a while until I can ditch mine.


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## turbodog (Jun 1, 2021)

Greta said:


> I went to a local apothecary to get my vaccine - and didn't wear a mask either time. No one said a word. The pharmacy tech behind the glass was not wearing one either. I used to have a mask stuffed in my purse - just in case. I threw it away last week.



Some corporate places are still hardcore. Local apple store is appt only, temp checking, mask wearing, and occupancy limits.


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## bykfixer (Jun 2, 2021)

On my commute to work I stop at an interstate rest stop and take a short stroll. Until today there were usually at least half of the people there wearing masks. Today nobody wore one. That kinda surprised me actually. 

The case count was below 50 in my state yesterday. They said it was a record low. (46 iirc) So I suppose from day one there had been 47+?…… we were hovering well over 1000 cases a day for a good long time.


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## raggie33 (Jun 2, 2021)

i plan to wear. my mask till december becuase around that time of year mask fogs my glasses up


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## Poppy (Jun 2, 2021)

turbodog said:


> Some corporate places are still hardcore. Local apple store is appt only, temp checking, mask wearing, and occupancy limits.


Hmmm, I wonder if that is a marketing ploy?
We are also overly concerned about cyber security.

You are safe with us!


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## turbodog (Jun 3, 2021)

Poppy said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if that is a marketing ploy?
> We are also overly concerned about cyber security.
> 
> You are safe with us!



My gut feeling (follow the money) says it's corporate legal dept. We've not seen the c-19 lawsuits yet. MS also has the lowest c-19- vaccinated rate in the nation.


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## Poppy (Jun 3, 2021)

turbodog said:


> My guy feeling (follow the money) says it's corporate legal dept. We've not seen the c-19 lawsuits yet. MS also has the lowest c-19- vaccinated rate in the nation.


So true! Lawsuits are sure to be coming. :thumbsdow


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## bykfixer (Jun 3, 2021)

Some ginormous companies have safety divisions in order to reduce insurance costs be it liability insurance or less costly for the part they absorb when providing insurance to employees. Although I work as an idependent outside of corparate walls I'm supposed to check my temperature each morning and fill out a "fit for duty" form.


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## idleprocess (Jun 3, 2021)

turbodog said:


> My guy feeling (follow the money) says it's corporate legal dept. We've not seen the c-19 lawsuits yet. MS also has the lowest c-19- vaccinated rate in the nation.



Employee retention in retail, food service, hospitality has been _tenuous_ of late; a masking policy may be one of the things that prevents attrition from spiking.


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## raggie33 (Jun 3, 2021)

have 160 n95 mask coming got em for 24 bucks


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## raggie33 (Jun 5, 2021)

my llife is so lame i got excited about my new mask lol. btw there so darn much better then the ones ive been gtting. but they went up like 400 percent in a few days


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## nbp (Jun 5, 2021)

You could have bought a few nice cloth ones for $20 and been washing and reusing them this past year and never had to order more. Then price increase doesn’t matter!


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## raggie33 (Jun 5, 2021)

nbp said:


> You could have bought a few nice cloth ones for $20 and been washing and reusing them this past year and never had to order more. Then price increase doesn’t matter!



i guess if i hand wash them. my ashing machine timer is messed up laundry day sucks. i have to move it thru its cycles manualy. plus id use more water these mask was like 14 cents a price or so.


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## nbp (Jun 5, 2021)

I just toss ‘em in with my towels and then let them air dry. Easy. Anyways, I’m not using them nearly as much now so it’s kind of a moot point.


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## raggie33 (Jun 5, 2021)

true story i never once in my life seprated my laundry i just throw it all in the machine and hope for the best. lol ps i have no idea at all what seting to use on my washing machine. and i leave my cloths in dyer to i wear them lol im a mess


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## JimIslander (Jun 5, 2021)

I only used two masks this entire time. I fly a lot, so I have had to wear them for long periods. I just wash them in the hotel. They dry by morning.

For a couple of months most stores have reduced their mask requirements. Since the CDC statement about no masks for vaccinated people, about 95% of our stores have dropped mandatory mask requirements.

At the beginning of all this my sister was terrified that we would wear masks the rest of our lives. I reminded her that the 1919 flu killed 50-100 million people, and they never had a vaccine. They weren't wearing masks in 1921.


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## LeanBurn (Jun 6, 2021)

I only wear a mask for maybe 5 mins per week, as to avoid fines when I go into stores. As a result the original paper mask I had in 2020 still works. I have a clear chinsheild mask I wear if I am in a store for any longer. The moment the fine thread decreases I will be maskless once again.


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## bykfixer (Jun 7, 2021)

The Mrs and I went into a Target store yesterday maskless. Asking an employee where the aloe vera is it turned out I knew the lady, yet did not know who she was until she pulled her mask down. Some people are easy to recognize to me even with the partial face covering. But some apparently are not. Eh, plus I did not have my glasses on but wore some Foster Grant sunglasses instead. 

I did feel awkward at the checkout counter knowing the mask is to prevent me from spreading the virus to another. I often walk around stores with it pulled down until I approach a person who will likely be on the outskirts of my 3 foot circle. Often the person running the cash register is less than 6 feet away.


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## turbodog (Jul 22, 2021)

First, I'm putting this in the 'masks' thread as vaccines/masks/corona all sort of blend together topic-wise.

Second, the tone in this thread is pretty subdued, and *my hope is that I can post this and that tone will continue*.

Now to the actual post...

Most of you have probably noticed the increase (again) in cases. This is a heads up in case you are not paying attention to just exactly what the numbers are doing and HOW they are doing it.

As most know, from prior posts, I am in MS. As of yesterday, we've seen a *700% increase in exactly the last 30 days*. The _rate_ has never, never, been this high. Other southern/red states are seeing even worse increases. Currently, the gross numbers resulting from this are still manageable, but just barely. Blue states are doing better, but my prediction is that those states' time is coming, just delayed a little... a trend that has played out time and time again.

Why is this important? Because the numbers that I am tracking are all pointing to this fall/winter being even worse that 2020.

MS already has several of its largest hospitals on *diversion *(as in shut down to ALL incoming new patients regardless, even ambulance/gunshots/covid/heart attacks/etc). Other major ones literally have 1-2 ICU beds available, and a half dozen 'regular' beds for non-ICU patients.

When you combine the delta variant with 1) mask usage dropping like mad 2) emotional/mental fatigue as it relates to countermeasures 3) flu increase due to 1&2 4) flu increase due to almost certainly declining flu vaccine uptake 5) covid vaccine uptake has flatlined... ALL this points to a very, very nasty fall/winter in store for us.

I urge everyone to get your covid/flu vaccine. And yeah, the old argument about covid being survivable (mostly) applies... but that's the wrong angle to look at this from. That assumes you can RECEIVE care. Healthcare resources are finite, and speaking frankly from the ~6 close family members in healthcare... the medical community is really tired.

The past surges did not continue forever (countermeasures were applied eventually), but delta spreads so MUCH faster than before... it appears that it will spread faster than we can respond emotionally, politically, and medically.


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## idleprocess (Jul 22, 2021)

turbodog said:


> 2) emotional/mental fatigue as it relates to countermeasures


Been observing this myself. Masks are rare - even among retail/service-sector staff. Retail customers are back to crowding one another. Restaurants and other public gathering places are operating at close to capacity.

Short of the plexiglass barriers and ~10% mask usage, the public in the DFW area has decided that the pandemic is over.



turbodog said:


> 5) covid vaccine uptake has flatlined... ALL this points to a very, very nasty fall/winter in store for us.


Yeah, just about any imaginable incentive that can be offered has been at just about every novel 'pop up' site that can be imagined.



turbodog said:


> I urge everyone to get your covid/flu vaccine. And yeah, the old argument about covid being survivable (mostly) applies... but that's the wrong angle to look at this from. That assumes you can RECEIVE care. Healthcare resources are finite, and speaking frankly from the ~6 close family members in healthcare... the medical community is really tired.


The slice of the population that's going to get vaccinated already has and the mass-media appeals have moved the easily reconcilable population. _Individual engagement_ is what will be required to move the needle at this point.



turbodog said:


> The past surges did not continue forever (countermeasures were applied eventually), but delta spreads so MUCH faster than before... it appears that it will spread faster than we can respond emotionally, politically, and medically.


My father has a saying about large-scale _market availability_ crises like this: _First it's an economic problem, second it's a political problem, finally it's a *physical* problem_. The market manages scarcity in the first stage via pricing and other _Laissez-faire_ rationing. In the second stage the issue becomes of sufficient concern that the government steps in to attempt to avert a crisis, rationing via more overt means outside of normal market dynamics. In the third stage the crisis has spiraled out of control and *nothing* can make the good at the root of the crisis satisfactorily available until conditions change, a substitute is made available, or an adaptation is developed.

I sincerely hope that we don't reach the physical _problem state_ any more than we already have.


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## turbodog (Jul 22, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> ...
> 
> My father has a saying about large-scale _market availability_ crises like this: _First it's an economic problem, second it's a political problem, finally it's a *physical* problem_. The market manages scarcity in the first stage via pricing and other _Laissez-faire_ rationing. In the second stage the issue becomes of sufficient concern that the government steps in to attempt to avert a crisis, rationing via more overt means outside of normal market dynamics. In the third stage the crisis has spiraled out of control and *nothing* can make the good at the root of the crisis satisfactorily available until conditions change, a substitute is made available, or an adaptation is developed.
> 
> I sincerely hope that we don't reach the physical _problem state_ any more than we already have.



Yes. But what I'm seeing now is that due to delta, the game has changed. Delta's moving faster than physical can mitigate. Vaccines take 2 shots and don't fully protect till weeks after shot #2.

There is a very small, rapidly closing, window to get ahead of this. I'm urging all to do so immediately.

*And MS published new numbers since my earlier post... our 700% in 30 days has been replaced by 800% increase in the past 31 days. It's literally exploding.*


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## ledbetter (Jul 23, 2021)

With a third of the country unwilling to get vaccinated and mask use careless at best, the Delta variant will spread in a very short time period for a third wave. It’s likely deaths won’t be as dramatic as previous. Herd immunity may happen sooner than expected with the majority of the unvaccinated getting the virus. Some historic similarities to the end of the Spanish flu (which probably came from Kansas).
And just curious, why is it ok to call it the Delta variant because it came from India, but it’s not ok to call it the Wuhan or Chinese virus?


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## Celery (Jul 23, 2021)

Alpha, beta, gamma, etc. 
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html



ledbetter said:


> And just curious, why is it ok to call it the Delta variant because it came from India, but it’s not ok to call it the Wuhan or Chinese virus?


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## ledbetter (Jul 23, 2021)

Thanks for the speedy link celery. It’s the alphabet!


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## turbodog (Jul 23, 2021)

And MS published new numbers today... our 700% in 30 days has been replaced by 800% increase in the past 31 days. And now 900% in 32 days. The rate of gain is increasing, both in raw numbers and percent.


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## idleprocess (Jul 23, 2021)

turbodog said:


> And MS published new numbers today... our 700% in 30 days has been replaced by 800% increase in the past 31 days. And now 900% in 32 days. The rate of gain is increasing, both in raw numbers and percent.



Denton County TX has seen an uptick per their own statistics. 1 March 6033 cases, low point 6 July 1444 cases, today (23 July) 2410 cases - up 66.9% from the low point using simple math. The ~25% vaccination rate does not impress but that doesn't include the vaccines sought outside of county efforts.

Filtering Google's inbuilt dashboard data for the last 30 days shows the trend a bit more clearly.

Microcovid suggests that the county vaccination rate is 47% and that a typical trip to the megalomart is but a moderate risk wearing a KN95 mask while everyone else cruises the aisles unmasked; treble if one also forgets one's mask.


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## bykfixer (Jul 23, 2021)

Oh No!! The Delta Variant!! 
Run for the hills………

The news says it's bad. The government says hunker down again. And we all know the news wouldn't lie and the government would never distort the facts. Nah. 

Not sayin' take this whole thing lightly. Just sayin' it's no time to panic (yet again).

Wait……there's more……the Delta Plus. 

Back during the Spanish flu period the initial one hardly affected the elderly. The thinking is now that the plague of 1890 was actually an original version and those who did not die from it were immune to the 1916 version. Ah, but Mother Nature had a more sinister plan. Phase 2. The 1917 wiped out the young and sickly. Phase 2 took out grownups and middle aged folks. By 1920 another version began offing the elderly. Then in the 1930's, the 50's, the 70's (when the US government required vaccinations, some of which were spoiled or contained live virus), and in the 1990's my more seasoned coworkers were dropping like flies. Bring on the Spanish flu part 7. I was down for three weeks with that one and took months to recover. 

In other words this new virus is going to mutate from now on. Some versions will be bad. Some not so bad. Then just when you think it's over or perhaps had a calm period WHAM!! It's like a Rocky movie or a Rolling Stones farewell tour……

I still keep masks near, stay 6 feet from others and continue to live like it's flu seaon and my elderly parents would be killed by it. Yet I do not live in fear that my neighbor or that stranger in the checkout line not wearing a mask is a death sentence. Life's too short for that.


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## jtr1962 (Jul 23, 2021)

turbodog said:


> As most know, from prior posts, I am in MS. As of yesterday, we've seen a *700% increase in exactly the last 30 days*. The _rate_ has never, never, been this high.


I also noticed that your state has the dubious honor of having the lowest vaccination rate in the country. That undoubtedly accounts for those numbers.



> Why is this important? Because the numbers that I am tracking are all pointing to this fall/winter being even worse that 2020.


We're on the same page. I'm actually starting to stock up on essential items out of fear that supply lines may be disrupted this fall/winter for weeks, perhaps longer.



> When you combine the delta variant with 1) mask usage dropping like mad 2) emotional/mental fatigue as it relates to countermeasures 3) flu increase due to 1&2 4) flu increase due to almost certainly declining flu vaccine uptake 5) covid vaccine uptake has flatlined... ALL this points to a very, very nasty fall/winter in store for us.


The only hope to avoid this is if we can somehow convince the holdouts to get vaccinated. And also go back to mask mandates yesterday. I haven't stopped wearing one, but I noticed even in NYC where compliance has mostly been great mask usage is now dropping off dramatically. And our numbers are up, also. We bottomed out at 0.5% positive in late June. Now we're at 2% and rising. So no, Delta isn't going to spare us. It'll probably have far less effect here due to the higher numbers of vaccinated, but a wave is coming, no doubt about it.



> I urge everyone to get your covid/flu vaccine. And yeah, the old argument about covid being survivable (mostly) applies... but that's the wrong angle to look at this from. That assumes you can RECEIVE care. Healthcare resources are finite, and speaking frankly from the ~6 close family members in healthcare... the medical community is really tired.


I got my second shot on Monday. My mom will get hers when she sees her doctor soon. Regarding covid being generally survivable, let's not be lulled into a false sense of complacency. Right now with current treatments I'm roughly estimating the case mortality rate at perhaps 0.5%. However, as you said, this assumes you'll receive medical care if you get it. If numbers keep rising, that's not a valid assumption. Without any treatments whatsoever, this disease appears to have a case mortality rate in the 5% to 10% range (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm basing this on the percent of hospitalized patients who died in NYC in the early stages when we really had no treatments. It was frightening.



> The past surges did not continue forever (countermeasures were applied eventually), but delta spreads so MUCH faster than before... it appears that it will spread faster than we can respond emotionally, politically, and medically.


The viral load for delta is about 1,000x that of original covid. This thing is spreading like crazy.


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## turbodog (Jul 23, 2021)

jtr1962 said:


> I also noticed that your state has the dubious honor of having the lowest vaccination rate in the country. That undoubtedly accounts for those numbers.
> 
> ...



My prediction is that you can add 'at this time' to your sentence. So far, states that patted themselves on the back didn't miss the party... they just arrived late.

My bet is that the more vaccinated (blue) states spike also... just slightly later.

The short version is that we can talk about causes/preventions/risks/etc (the input side of the equation), but the output side is that hospitals are filling up more NOW than in 2020 this time.

Also, RSV, for some unknown reason is widely prevalent, further consuming resources.

Covid/Flu shot and go on about your business...


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## jtr1962 (Jul 23, 2021)

I don't disagree. The open question is how bad will this get in the blue states versus the red states? Our numbers have already been ticking up for a month.

I'm really, really concerned about what may happen to the supply lines. That's literally keeping me up at night.


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## bykfixer (Jul 24, 2021)

Note to self: 
Buy toilet paper. Lot's of toilet paper……soon.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 24, 2021)

Reading the linked story on Delta yesterday - Doctor Gottlieb said we're already well into it and it will probably peak next month or during September. 

https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2021/07/23/gottlieb-this-delta-wave-may-end-sooner-than-we-think-n404194


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## raggie33 (Jul 24, 2021)

freind just died of covid 19


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## turbodog (Jul 24, 2021)

Very unfortunate. Sorry for you and their family.


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## turbodog (Jul 24, 2021)

Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Reading the linked story on Delta yesterday - Doctor Gottlieb said we're already well into it and it will probably peak next month or during September.
> 
> https://hotair.com/ed-morrissey/2021/07/23/gottlieb-this-delta-wave-may-end-sooner-than-we-think-n404194



I haven't taken the time to add some additional calculations to my delta model, but reading this article makes me think...

Does 'ending in aug/sep' (which they call sooner than we think) mean what's implied... that infections will be low.

Or... since it's spreading faster than any variant so far... does this mean it will end sooner because it will have literally burned through the remaining vulnerable population (which is still a LOT of people)?


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Jul 24, 2021)

turbodog said:


> I haven't taken the time to add some additional calculations to my delta model, but reading this article makes me think...
> 
> Does 'ending in aug/sep' (which they call sooner than we think) mean what's implied... that infections will be low.
> 
> Or... since it's spreading faster than any variant so far... does this mean it will end sooner because it will have literally burned through the remaining vulnerable population (which is still a LOT of people)?



My take on the doctor's opinion is we already have a lot of people infected with Delta that haven't been counted as Delta positive, and therefore it's on its way to winding down over the next two months. I didn't interpret his opinion as Delta infections are or will be low, just that it's winding down not ramping up.


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## raggie33 (Jul 24, 2021)

turbodog said:


> Very unfortunate. Sorry for you and their family.



he was a super nice man ive been a family freind for years. oddly enough he loved flashlights he always seemed to enjoy seeing my lights. he was a few decades older then me. i was shocked when he got covid and more so to find out he died


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## Poppy (Jul 25, 2021)

turbodog said:


> I haven't taken the time to add some additional calculations to my delta model, but reading this article makes me think...
> 
> Does 'ending in aug/sep' (which they call sooner than we think) mean what's implied... that infections will be low.
> 
> Or... since it's spreading faster than any variant so far... does this mean it will end sooner because it will have literally burned through the remaining vulnerable population (which is still a LOT of people)?



My take is that it is spreading faster than expected and the surge that was expected to occur in September, will occur sooner, and will peak sooner. He didn't touch on how many will be infected at the time of the peak, nor did he discuss any predictions of whether, or how overwhelmed, our hospitals may be at the time of the peak. He did mention that we have treatments, and knowledge of how to treat that we didn't have during the initial surge.

He mentioned that there is a LOT we DO NOT KNOW about where we are in the pandemic because there isn't enough testing going on; and that the CDC should do more cohort studies, including trying to determine how effective the current vaccines are, at reducing the levels of virus shed, of those who were vaccinated. In particular, he stated that we do not know, how much a vaccinated person, who has a delta break through infection, will shed delta virus, and the amount when asymptomatic, vs symptomatic. He stated that the delta variant produces 1000 times shedding than the original does.

I read the hotair article, than the cbs article it linked to, and then watched the squawk-box video.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jul 25, 2021)

Clearly the the threadstarter is ok with the bend in content here. 

Hopefully most places will continue to let people decide whether to mask up or not, whether to vaccine or not, whether to stay home or not, and toilet paper panic is ever-so 2020 history in the rear-view mirror.

Our wonderful beloved rabbit injured herself which required some veterinarian visits. In the clinic lobby most people were maskless, including staff. But in the small exam room, son (under 12 years old) and I (Pfizer vax'd) used masks as a courtesy even though the techs were without. The vet was behind a mask. 

Maybe 10% masked at stores, higher percentage of staff than customers. Went to a party yesterday. One family was masked until eating time, then they never put them back on; Perhaps 60 people inside and outside a co-worker's home.


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## Poppy (Jul 25, 2021)

I too have worn a mask as a courtesy. Not so much anymore.

Doctor Gottlieb spoke to the need to educate on the difference in Quality of masks, and that the cloth ones do not offer protection, but that for protection one should use a N95 mask or better.

For the most part I have worn a surgical mask, which is good for protecting others from me, but not so good to protect me from others. 
It was easily proven to myself.

Early on when I was very concerned about getting infected and bringing it home, I rarely left my property, except to go food or toilet paper shopping. When I did, I wore a half face respirator. When I walked through the soap section of the store, I didn't smell a thing. Later, when I was wearing a surgical mask, I could smell all of the soaps, and flowers (in the small floral section). It was very obvious which mask gave better protection.


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## turbodog (Jul 25, 2021)

Poppy said:


> ...He stated that the delta variant produces 1000 times shedding than the original does.
> 
> ...



Those are the rough numbers I have seen also... and they are reasonably peer-reviewed so I feel they are more or less accurate.

That said... masks will become less useful if everyone infected is basically a super-spreader. And given the mental/physical fatigue, the days of widespread masking are probably over unless people start dying in the streets.

I see more and more get the shot, but it's a trickle. We need lines at vaccine locations again.


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## idleprocess (Jul 25, 2021)

turbodog said:


> We need lines at vaccine locations again.



There wasn't a line in _March_ and _April_ when I got my shots.

We'll see if there's a bump when the vaccines are fully certified.


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## Poppy (Jul 25, 2021)

I got mine in January and February. There was limited availability and went be appointment only. There was a constant flow of people through the pharmacy, but since it was scheduled, there wasn't much of a line.

I agree with the sentiment that we need lots of people getting vaccinated NOW!

Both here and abroad!


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## turbodog (Jul 25, 2021)

This applies to the delta variant and the official thread title.

If delta's viral loads are 1000x other variants... then

1. Masks will certainly be less effective, probably a lot less.

2. However, if they are only effective in the low single digits... that's still important given the extremely rapid rise of delta cases. In essence, their raw number effectiveness becomes useful due to how bad delta is.

Another week should be interesting.


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## idleprocess (Jul 25, 2021)

turbodog said:


> This applies to the delta variant and the official thread title.
> 
> If delta's viral loads are 1000x other variants... then
> 
> ...



A sub-100% is better than a 0% reduction. Of course throw more cr_p at something imperfect and eventually something gets through. It would help if people would select masks on basis of effectiveness rather than whatever trendy print _(or kickstarter hucksterism)_ they feature and N95/KN95/FFP2/P100 are a very solid step up from cloth and surgical masks.

But it's mid-2021, the populace is tired of masks and all the various mitigation practices, a majority of those who are going to get vaccinated likely have, and the willingness to enact and enforce the sort of mandates everyone grumbled about in 2020 is immensely reduced. So I expect Delta to do what it will do and countermeasures will be both reactive and _phoned in_.


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## bykfixer (Jul 30, 2021)

The original concept was that a face cover thwarts propellents from travelling as far when expelled from the person. Thereby reducing the likliehood of droplets making it more than say, 2 feet (or less). And with another person standing say 4 feet away it meant viral load would not actually travel far enough to reach another person. Alpha, Beta, Delta…whatever. 
Has this new variant somehow magically managed to become like smoke and just woft through the air despite the physical barrier of a face cover catching moisture droplets? 
Has the CDC suddenly discovered (gasp) that inoculation or not it travels from person to person? That despite their best efforts, a large slice of the population does not have direct access to said inoculation? Particularly the disenfranchised community where many have to walk everywhere they go? 

I still see about a 50/50 ratio of folks wearing face covers nearly everywhere I go. The troubling aspect is how many wear one while crossing the parking lot only to remove them when they arrive indoors. It's not uncommon to see people (alone) drive up and park their car wearing a face cover, walk to the building wearing the cover then removing it once they are in the congregate setting. That is completely backwards. But it's pretty common here where I live.


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## idleprocess (Jul 30, 2021)

bykfixer said:


> The original concept was that a face cover thwarts propellents from travelling as far when expelled from the person. Thereby reducing the likliehood of droplets making it more than say, 2 feet (or less). And with another person standing say 4 feet away it meant viral load would not actually travel far enough to reach another person. Alpha, Beta, Delta…whatever.
> Has this new variant somehow magically managed to become like smoke and just woft through the air despite the physical barrier of a face cover catching moisture droplets?
> Has the CDC suddenly discovered (gasp) that inoculation or not it travels from person to person? That despite their best efforts, a large slice of the population does not have direct access to said inoculation? Particularly the disenfranchised community where many have to walk everywhere they go?
> 
> I still see about a 50/50 ratio of folks wearing face covers nearly everywhere I go. The troubling aspect is how many wear one while crossing the parking lot only to remove them when they arrive indoors. It's not uncommon to see people (alone) drive up and park their car wearing a face cover, walk to the building wearing the cover then removing it once they are in the congregate setting. That is completely backwards. But it's pretty common here where I live.



Viral load for _delta_ is immensely greater than the _alpha_ strain that was previously dominant, which combined with its tendency to produce breakthrough infections means that the vaccinated can spread it around even if asymptomatic.

The initial guidance on mask usage was - as we could easily deduct _then_ and know _now_ for certain - a gambit to keep citizens from snapping up all the medical-grade PPE before it could be diverted to the healthcare system. First the guidance was masks aren't necessary, then the slow pivot towards cloth/surgical masks, finally the obvious admission that superior media performs better than inferior filter media - even if worn imperfectly - but please please don't horde ≥N95 PPE.

Plenty of _logistical_ barriers to getting vaccinated - transportation as you have mentioned but also lack of internet access, lack of a smartphone, and the devilishly difficult task for many of taking time off work both in terms of securing permission and the pain of lost wages. That's in addition to the _conceptual_ hurdles that a large slice of the populace is facing.

Apparent mask usage is perhaps 10% in the small slice of the DFW area I roam around - and most of that is _establishment staff_. Maybe it's the region's miserable heat ~6 months of the year, but pretty much no one is walking across parking lots with a mask on.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jul 30, 2021)

Government is trying to make it easier for the logistical factors by offering money.
The main issue as seen behind this device is firstly one of trust in the establishment, trust in the government, trust in doctors, trust in Big Pharma, trust in what is primarily income focused humans and (most scary) those who crave control over all known existence. That is why it is still hoped that most of us will be given the choice to follow authority or not. It is not a challenge to look in the past to see greed and lust for power messing things up for people.

Over abundance of caution seems to be the driving force with this ‘vax’d must wear masks thing’. We don’t want to go back to lockdown protocol again, like other areas of the world are doing.


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## idleprocess (Jul 30, 2021)

KITROBASKIN said:


> The main issue as seen behind this device is firstly one of trust in the establishment, trust in the government, trust in doctors, trust in Big Pharma, trust in what is primarily income focused humans and (most scary) _*those who *_*crave control over all known existence*. That is why it is still hoped that most of us will be given the choice to follow authority or not. It is not a challenge to look in the past to see greed and lust for power messing things up for people.


Emphasis added. While I don't doubt this is a widely-held perception, I'm at a loss where it comes from. Best I can tell public health officials from the top down are primarily acting within their lanes in the interest of their _chartered_ goals. While there have been strident disagreements over the scope and necessity of their actions and there have been economic casualties along the way, I just don't get the sense that they're trying to usurp duly-authorized authority and _control_ anyone's lives beyond measures needed to mitigate this pandemic. 

I do wonder if the success of public health measures are their own worst enemy. Witness the great chest-beating gnashing of teeth bloviating over *how those scientists got it wrong*. The initial worst-case back-of-the-napkin projections missed the mark ... because we took countermeasures and learned more along the way, greatly changing subsequent projections.

Effectively *nobody* likes the pandemic countermeasures. I'm a recovering pro introvert and _*I*_ don't like social distancing, wearing an inconvenient and uncomfortable face mask in public, 'zoom parties'/IM's poorly substituting for get-togethers, and spending almost 18 months largely confined to my neighborhood. There's no _constituency_ for these things - it's natural to dislike and wish for them to end. But transforming this into a persecution narrative is a step too far in my view.


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## nbp (Jul 30, 2021)

It's not hard to see where the issues come from. People now freak out about absolutely anything that is proposed by someone from the party they don't align with. They don't see anything as just being normal human issues; every single thing must be the result of a political angle. You can thank social media allowing people to consume only the information that supports the views they already have (slanted, slightly off or downright incorrect) and big tech algorithms that feed users increasingly volatile information with each click to keep them hooked for much of this dumpster fire. So here we are. And with 40% of of people unwilling to vaccinate this virus isn't going anywhere so just get used it I guess.


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## KITROBASKIN (Jul 30, 2021)

Yeah idleP, that comment was more global than referring to health officials specifically. It has been very sad to see the ugliness that has been directed towards some of them. 

But in addition to the pursuit of the mighty dollar (or Euro, or Yuán) as well as the lust for control, it is no surprise that some people love to sound like an expert; love to tell others how to live, love to have the attention, regardless of political affiliation or adherence to accuracy.

As far as COVID vax safety, seems like people should have the right to question long term safety to this day. Just because I and many others are 'good to go', that doesn't mean everything is awesome necessarily. While hopefully no one thinks it will cause a situation as depicted in the book/movie "I Am Legend", we can remember the tragedy of thalidomide...


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## bykfixer (Jul 30, 2021)

So if every human on planet earth receives the amount of inoculation reccomended by the particular manufacturer would this novel virus just burn out and go away? 
Or would it continue to jump from person to person and eventually mutate into a version that hosts would no longer be able to fight off?


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## turbodog (Jul 30, 2021)

KITROBASKIN said:


> ... we can remember the tragedy of thalidomide...



Yes, but that and c-19 vaccine are fundamentally different technologies. Like comparing carbon-zinc and lithium cells. Same use case, but wildy different tech.

Edit... and of note, Thaliomide is still around and on the WHO's list of essential drugs.


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## turbodog (Jul 30, 2021)

bykfixer said:


> So if every human on planet earth receives the amount of inoculation reccomended by the particular manufacturer would this novel virus just burn out and go away?
> Or would it continue to jump from person to person and eventually mutate into a version that hosts would no longer be able to fight off?


Glad you asked this as I was just going to mention it.

In short, pretty much. It would be a race between vaccination efforts/progress and virus mutation(s). But eventually, vaccines would prevail.

It's a race right now, except a large portion of the US has decided to sit down when the gun went off in protest of the race organizer.


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## turbodog (Jul 30, 2021)

On a 'good' note... my prelim data says the July 4 peak has _started_ to abate. However, we have a LONG want to go before we are at a safe rate... we are still well into the 'swamp healthcare' danger zone. And we've got plenty of superspreader events coming up.


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## bykfixer (Aug 3, 2021)

Yesterday I heard an explanation of the Delta that made sense. At least to me. 
A virologist was on a radio show explaining why it's more contagious.

Think about a water drop with one grain of salt. That would be the original version. The Delta would be like the same drop with 6 grains of salt. Hence the term viral load.

Now some speculate if one gets a small load, say one grain of salt they may be able to fight it off better than receiving say 300 grains of salt. So ten droplets of delta would have many more times a viral load as ten droplets of the original.

That is why many are saying only the N95 is enough. By the way the doctor also said the original version is called the Wuhan with the first mutation being called Alpha. Apparently there are a few Alpha varients. Beta too. Doctors called them various other names that make sense to doctors but the greek letter seems to be used for laymen to easier understand.

It also seems the varients are a virus self survival thing, kinda like other life forms evolve. I suppose we call it mutation because that sounds more drastic. And like the Spanish flu did this one is adapting in ways that folks that were not seemingly affected before are now such as folks under 12 years old.

Now the information that seems to be secret is the hospitalization and death rate. The Delta is less deadly by statisics. Partly because of treatments and partly because, at least in America the most vulnerable have largely been inoculated. Yet this one is like the ones before it….it can still kill yorass if you have certain health issues. It seems in youth the obescity thing is a factor. Athsma is also an issue with youngsters according to the virologist.

So, continue wash your hands, stay 6 feet apart and wear a face cover when congregating close to people. And live as normally as you can.


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## idleprocess (Aug 3, 2021)

bykfixer said:


> It also seems the varients are a virus self survival thing, kinda like other life forms evolve. I suppose we call it mutation because that sounds more drastic.


Since viruses _exist to replicate _making an unimaginable number of themselves in the process any mutation that increases this replication potential without otherwise hampering viability and spread will swiftly out-reproduce other strains. Mutation is simply the genetics term for the process that causes this; because viruses make so many copies of themselves - hijacking the genetic machinery of the host cell in the process - errors in replication inevitably occur.



bykfixer said:


> That is why many are saying only the N95 is enough


Cloth masks, surgical masks, gaiters, bandanas, unrated dust masks, even cloth masks with N95/KN95/FFP2-rated inserts were all primarily meant to slow the spread, and mostly of benefit when infected individual wore them effectively to protect others, which so many did not. Better-fitting PPE ala purpose-built N95/KN95/FFP2 masks or half-face respirators with similar or better cartridges (ala the aforementioned and N100/P100) offer reasonable protection to the wearer, however they must form a decent seal and be handled carefully.



bykfixer said:


> Now the information that seems to be secret is the hospitalization and death rate.



I was actually trying to find similar information earlier today and couldn't find much anything - in particular the hospitalization rate among the vaccinated. Best I got was an article on Ars Technica:



> As of July 26, the CDC had recorded 6,587 breakthrough infections that resulted in hospitalization or death among 163 million fully vaccinated people, Dr. Fauci noted. That works out to just 0.004 percent of fully vaccinated people getting a severe breakthrough infection.
> [...]
> In the past, Fauci and Walensky have noted that _un_vaccinated people account for 97 percent of COVID-19 hospitalizations and over 99 percent of COVID-19 deaths in the country.



Either statistic represents a very low rate of hospitalization for the vaccinated.



bykfixer said:


> So, continue wash your hands, stay 6 feet apart and wear a face cover when congregating close to people. And live as normally as you can.



This.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Aug 4, 2021)

Looks like this mask and vaccine ordeal is turning into a big mess. Going off of the CDC's recommendations that have no force of law, many states and cities have decided to require that people must be vaccinated and show proof of it or get tested once or twice a week (probably at their own expense) and wear masks in order to get or keep a job, go to the gym, store, movies, etc.. They just screwed the pooch. The common person is thinking, "If the vaccine works, why do I have to wear a mask, and if I have to wear a mask anyway, what is the point of risking my health on an experimental vaccine that doesn't even have FDA approval." People are going to revolt over this. The unions have already started. Rioting has started in France over this and they don't have all the laws we have making this entirely illegal. 

Let's discuss the legality of making someone take a vaccine against their will. The vaccine isn't FDA approved. It's experimental. It requires a signed informed consent agreement before they can give you the vaccine. For a private business, this may or may not be illegal as they may be able to list being vaccinated as a job requirement for getting the job. However, if it isn't in the contract, they may be liable for unlawful termination of current employees. If current employees are fired because this is a government mandate, liability also goes to the government entity that enacted the mandate as they would have violated contract law under Article 1 Section 10 of the U.S. Constitution: "No state shall...pass any... law impairing the obligation of contracts". If they charge for testing and it's a choice between paying each week for a test or getting an experimental vaccine that requires informed consent, they could be charged with extortion, at least in California. California Penal Code Section 522 says, "Every person who, by any extortionate means, obtains from another his signature to any paper or instrument, whereby, if such signature were freely given, any...demand, charge, or right of action created, is punishable in the same manner as if the actual delivery of such debt, demand, charge, or right of action were obtained." Then we have HIPPA, which you would think would protect your privacy from being forced to give personal medical information away. There is an exemption for protecting the public health so that is debatable. The 4th Amendment protects your right to be secure in your papers and effects against unreasonable searches and seizures without a warrant or probable cause so going to a system where you have to show your papers is illegal, discriminatory, and downright wrong. In short, get ready for a lawsuit bonanza, public officials fired or jailed over this, and most importantly, a work strike and the fallout from more people not working or producing goods.

All that said, I am fully vaccinated, but I am against anyone who would force someone to put something into their body against their will by threatening them with their careers and livelihoods. That is sick and wrong and deserves the full retaliation from all whom it affects. As far as masks go, I have a neurological disorder that the doctors have spent over 5 years trying to diagnose and has started causing breathing problems. If someone tries to force me to wear a mask, I will sue them into the poorhouse for violating the ADA.


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## nbp (Aug 4, 2021)

I feel like we have gotten way off the original topic and this thread has become a catch all for C19 discussions. Let’s keep this one for mask ideas and applications. I believe there was another one highlighting the vaccine efforts we can bump up.


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## Poppy (Aug 4, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> Looks like this mask and vaccine ordeal is turning into a big mess. Going off of the CDC's recommendations that have no force of law, many states and cities have decided to require that people must be vaccinated and show proof of it or get tested once or twice a week (probably at their own expense) and wear masks in order to get or keep a job, go to the gym, store, movies, etc.. They just screwed the pooch. The common person is thinking, "If the vaccine works, why do I have to wear a mask, and if I have to wear a mask anyway, what is the point of risking my health on an experimental vaccine that doesn't even have FDA approval." People are going to revolt over this. The unions have already started. Rioting has started in France over this and they don't have all the laws we have making this entirely illegal.
> 
> Let's discuss the legality of making someone take a vaccine against their will. <SNIP>


People are stupid!

At this point in time, it is unfathomable to me, that anyone needs an explanation of the need of the vaccination to eradicate this virus. Nor do I understand why people won't get vaccinated, if for no other reason than to help protect the little ones who CAN NOT get vaccinated.

Those who thought that wearing a single layer cloth bandana, or even a surgical mask would protect them don't have the intellect to understand what they were being told. Again, and again, they were told to wear a face covering, to protect others. Many people falsely believed that it would protect them. That is NOT what they were told.

Now that N95 masks are available, finally we are being told that if one wants personal protection, he/she should use a N95 rated mask. Still a single layer mask is helpful to reduce the spread to others, although it offers little protection to the wearer.

Regarding legal issues presented:
Lawyers are experts at arguing either side of an issue.
Many lawyers are ready to argue that it is not illegal to limit employment regarding vaccinated or not.

Certainly "Not fully approved" may be the strongest argument for some, but I believe that the evidence leading to full approval greatly out-weighs, the stringent timeline requirements of full approval. There have been millions of people vaccinated with no counter effects.


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## scout24 (Aug 4, 2021)

Poppy- You're allowed your opinion. By that token, so is everyone else, even if there is disagreement. Calling people stupid because they do not agree with you won't fly here, whatever my personal feelings are. We used to be able to have civilized discourse in this country, I know you remember it. Back on track...


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## KITROBASKIN (Aug 4, 2021)

Today was the first staff day for upcoming school year (elementary). Heard a new term; those who do not wish to identify as vaccinated. Turns out they must be in the pool of employees who will have to take a COVID test, random chosen 25% of them each week. Outdoors is maskless. Refusal to wear a mask indoors by a student is considered a dress code violation (parent picks up child). An employee who refuses to wear inside goes into a due process kind of thing. And a visitor/family member of student must go through a sequence/passage to enter the facility and be wearing a mask for the 2nd door to be buzzed open. If the visitor takes off the mask in a building and refuses to wear one, the office is to be notified and the sheriff's office will be called if noncompliance continues. Let's hope we all get along and the perceived threat greatly diminishes.


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## raggie33 (Aug 4, 2021)

ive been wearing this since it all started


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## Poppy (Aug 4, 2021)

Hi Scout24,
Sorry, I forgot your name, that is one of my greatest weaknesses.

I wasn't calling HOF stupid. In fact, I don't think he is stupid. When he wants to make an argument, he often backs it up with facts. It wasn't personal. 

Generally speaking, I think that a huge percentage of our population, are actually stupid, or in other words do stupid things, without giving consideration to their actions. Someone posted here, a statistical study, that I don't recall exactly, but the reading level of the average American is below 3rd grade level and their comprehension is so low that they can't follow a thought beyond a paragraph or two. That is shockingly sad.


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## raggie33 (Aug 4, 2021)

everyone is a idiot and a genius


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## idleprocess (Aug 4, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> The common person is thinking, "If the vaccine works, why do I have to wear a mask, and if I have to wear a mask anyway, what is the point of risking my health on an experimental vaccine that doesn't even have FDA approval."


The messaging on masks has _always_ been tortured. 

The carrot that was dangled early this year that you could drop the mask if you got vaccinated was _at best_ ill-advised. Of course, the reason for the change in guidance was simple - if not unpopular and often distorted - _the nature of the virus has changed for the worse_.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 5, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> everyone is a idiot and a genius


Hence my username.


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## ledbetter (Aug 5, 2021)

The genius part is if you’ve read the book; the idiot part is if you’ve only watched the movie.


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## bykfixer (Aug 5, 2021)

My company started a return to work policy July 12th. 
Yesterday they declared everybody indoors has to wear a 3 layer mask. 
Man, it sure was quiet in there today as the WFH crowd held a mutiny. 

I went to Harbor Freight to buy some watch repair tools and they have 10 packs of dental masks for 99 cents. A year ago they were $2 each one when you could find them. Remembering the toilet paper scare I bought 3 boxes to add to my approx 350 or so I already have (along with last years toilet paper horde). Heck, I've been using them for wood working, for when the pollen gets ridiculous and at other times long before the pandemic and right now they're dirt cheap! 

Oh, at my office the few who showed up were not wearing face covers. Even the guy who always wears one said "screw that, I'm done wearing one"……I chuckled and said "but, but, but it's for the children"……he said "screw them too, and grandpa and grandma, read my lips no more mask".


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## turbodog (Aug 5, 2021)

bykfixer said:


> ...Now the information that seems to be secret is the hospitalization and death rate. The Delta is less deadly by statisics. Partly because of treatments and partly because, at least in America the most vulnerable have largely been inoculated....



I've not looked outside MS for stats, but the ones for here are available.

That said... even if hospitalizations are less (from a percent standpoint), the gross numbers are rising so quickly that it can (and is) consuming all healthcare resources.

We are seeing levels _now_ that rival the worse from ~dec2020, and we are still on the way up, rising very quickly, so quickly my math model keeps breaking every few days.


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## turbodog (Aug 5, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> ...Let's discuss the legality of making someone take a vaccine against their will. The vaccine isn't FDA approved. ...
> 
> ... but I am against anyone who would force someone to put something into their body against their will by threatening them with their careers and livelihoods. That is sick and wrong and deserves the full retaliation from all whom it affects. ...



Approval is largely moot. FDA is gonna pass it, and word is withing ~30 days.

The carriers are forcing stuff into people's bodies against their will... stuff that can take careers, livelihoods, and even their lives.


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## turbodog (Aug 5, 2021)

nbp said:


> I feel like we have gotten way off the original topic and this thread has become a catch all for C19 discussions. Let’s keep this one for mask ideas and applications. I believe there was another one highlighting the vaccine efforts we can bump up.


sorry. i was sort of 'going down the thread'.


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## knucklegary (Aug 5, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> everyone is a idiot and a genius





KITROBASKIN said:


> Today was the first staff day for upcoming school year (elementary). Heard a new term; those who do not wish to identify as vaccinated. Turns out they must be in the pool of employees who will have to take a COVID test, random chosen 25% of them each week. Outdoors is maskless. Refusal to wear a mask indoors by a student is considered a dress code violation (parent picks up child). An employee who refuses to wear inside goes into a due process kind of thing. And a visitor/family member of student must go through a sequence/passage to enter the facility and be wearing a mask for the 2nd door to be buzzed open. If the visitor takes off the mask in a building and refuses to wear one, the office is to be notified and the sheriff's office will be called if noncompliance continues. Let's hope we all get along and the perceived threat greatly diminished





Chauncey Gardiner said:


> Hence my username.


Forrest Gump "Stupid is as stupid does"


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## raggie33 (Aug 5, 2021)

i love you all but when i see the maskless i think to self avoid this human. im a dumbass but i wear a mask


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## raggie33 (Aug 5, 2021)

truly 95 percent of people in the usa have a higher education then me. hect maybe even 98 percent . im pure dumbass i admit it


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## raggie33 (Aug 5, 2021)

ps most day i end the day thinking to self wtf is wrong with me!


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## turbodog (Aug 5, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> truly 95 percent of people in the usa have a higher education then me. hect maybe even 98 percent . im pure dumbass i admit it



For someone to admit their limitations and ask for help/explanations puts you above most people I know.


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## knucklegary (Aug 5, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> truly 95 percent of people in the usa have a higher education then me. hect maybe even 98 percent . im pure dumbass i admit it


Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups


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## Hooked on Fenix (Aug 6, 2021)

We had a death in the family not long ago. They had gotten the vaccine shot within 24 hours and died from it. Some of my family decided not to get the shot. Two have cancer and a weakened immune system, my sister and her kids have severe allergies. These family members are all in high risk categories that taking the vaccine could harm them. They are not idiots for weighing the options and choosing for themselves not to take the vaccine. To force my sister to take a vaccine against her will and that could kill her or lose her job taking care of my autistic brother is insane. I don’t recognize this country anymore as the land of the free. Anyone here that thinks everyone needs to be forced to take the shot or lose their job needs to stop drinking the koolade. You are advocating for the firing of and possible death of my family.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 6, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> We had a death in the family not long ago. They had gotten the vaccine shot within 24 hours and died from it. Some of my family decided not to get the shot. Two have cancer and a weakened immune system, my sister and her kids have severe allergies. These family members are all in high risk categories that taking the vaccine could harm them. They are not idiots for weighing the options and choosing for themselves not to take the vaccine. To force my sister to take a vaccine against her will and that could kill her or lose her job taking care of my autistic brother is insane. I don’t recognize this country anymore as the land of the free. Anyone here that thinks everyone needs to be forced to take the shot or lose their job needs to stop drinking the koolade. You are advocating for the firing of and possible death of my family.


Some people paint with the broadest brush possible. They don't give any appearance of having compassion or understanding for those that they disagree with.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 6, 2021)

ledbetter said:


> The genius part is if you’ve read the book; the idiot part is if you’ve only watched the movie.


Book purchased. Thanks for the heads-up.


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## KITROBASKIN (Aug 6, 2021)

Isn't now the rationale for wearing a mask?:
Slow down transmission to lessen the chance for new scary variants.
Save the lives of vaccine refusers.
Not overwhelm medical facilities.


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## xxo (Aug 6, 2021)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Isn't now the rationale for wearing a mask?:
> Slow down transmission to lessen the chance for new scary variants.
> Save the lives of vaccine refusers.
> Not overwhelm medical facilities.



15 days to slow the spread!


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## turbodog (Aug 6, 2021)

xxo said:


> 15 days to slow the spread!



On anything of this nature, there will be hits/misses from a PR/communications perspective. That said, it's hard to know how many lives the 15 days saved... and how many new variants were NOT spawned from it.

It's got to be really tough, communicating a difficult & nuanced message in a more of less universal way in a manner that's easily understood, not misunderstood, is complex enough to be thorough, and short enough to not make people lose interest. And all while various media/news outlets are often (purposefully) misquoting you.


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## bykfixer (Aug 6, 2021)

The message was perfectly simple. 
Stay 6' apart, wash your hands, cover your face in a crowd. Oh and DON'T TOUCH YOUR FACE. 

The scarf lady (Dr Byrx), and the then vice president laid out clear, concise language every afternoon around 4:30.


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## turbodog (Aug 6, 2021)

Do we really have to go through this stuff again? A year or so later? Really?


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## turbodog (Aug 6, 2021)

xxo said:


> The definitive science on masks from Dr Fauci:




*This video goes way over the line into irresponsible.* The ~20 seconds I saw were sound snippets, taken out of context, at an unknown time, about an unknown conversation, regarding who knows what variant.


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## boo5ted (Aug 6, 2021)

xxo said:


> The definitive science on masks from Dr Fauci:




Clear as mud.


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## Poppy (Aug 6, 2021)

Today the NJ Governor announced that all K-12 students, and staff, will be required to wear a mask in school. There are exemptions. This is a reversal of an earlier position, due to the increased infection rate.


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## Chauncey Gardiner (Aug 6, 2021)

turbodog said:


> Do we really have to go through this stuff again? A year or so later? Really?


No, you and anyone else that desires to may skip ahead or are free to read elsewhere. Do you really think being condescending adds to any members enjoyment? Really?


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## nbp (Aug 6, 2021)

No, we're not going to debate these same old nonsense claims, or the thread will be closed.


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## turbodog (Aug 7, 2021)

Poppy said:


> Today the NJ Governor announced that all K-12 students, and staff, will be required to wear a mask in school. There are exemptions. This is a reversal of an earlier position, due to the increased infection rate.



Our neighbor state, Arkansas, is going through the same thing. Governor actually passed a law prohibiting masks. Then had to work on calling a special session to undo that mistake. Unreal.


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## bykfixer (Aug 7, 2021)

Well just about 45 days ago the thing seemed to be going away. Well maybe 60 or 75, but my point is it looked like we could all relax and get on with normal life again. Even the states with the most restrictions were relaxing them. In my state the emergency declaration expired at the end of May and in response was crickets chirping.

Then that pesky Delta thing showed up and the wheels on the bus are going round and round again. Here we are a year and a quarter later having a similar discussion.

Same bat time, same bat channel.

At my work, the building has engineers on one floor, insurance folks on another and the atf on the top one. The only people wearing masks indoors are the cleaning crew who have been since the while thing began. Inoculated folks are revolting like that burn your bra movement back in the what, 60's? 70's? 

I have kept a mask with me, ready to deploy for over a year now. Mrs Fixer too. It is what it is. We discuss the so-called science versus the so-called propaganda among friends and family but we also take the whole thing pretty serious while trying to live life as close to normal as practical figuring at least a couple more years of this mess as the virus continues in self preserve mode. Just like that one did 100 years ago.


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## ledbetter (Aug 7, 2021)

Mask usage now appears to be class based where the upper classes, who are usually vaccinated, go without a mask, flaunting their immunity, their health insurance, and their access to therapeutics like Regeneron. Whereas the working classes are mostly masked, working in the service industry which is obviously up close and personal with the public. In addition, the working classes generally have poor health insurance, if any, and may be living in more crowded homes.


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## knucklegary (Aug 7, 2021)

ledbetter said:


> Mask usage now appears to be class based where the upper classes, who are usually vaccinated, go without a mask, flaunting their immunity, their health insurance, and their access to therapeutics like Regeneron. Whereas the working classes are mostly masked, working in the service industry which is obviously up close and personal with the public. In addition, the working classes generally have poor health insurance, if any, and may be living in more crowded homes.


We're all created equal but some are more equal than others.. George Orwell


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## raggie33 (Aug 7, 2021)

im poor super poor. im fully vacanted .i wear my mask still


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## Poppy (Aug 7, 2021)

ledbetter said:


> Mask usage now appears to be class based where the upper classes, who are usually vaccinated, go without a mask, flaunting their immunity, their health insurance, and their access to therapeutics like Regeneron. Whereas the working classes are mostly masked, working in the service industry which is obviously up close and personal with the public. In addition, the working classes generally have poor health insurance, if any, and may be living in more crowded homes.


Nonsense. The vaccine is free to everyone.


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## nbp (Aug 7, 2021)

Hah!! That's funny. I work across many communities in my area, both upper class and working class, both red and blue. The upper class neighborhoods and have invariably followed the more stringent guidance and adhered to mask policies carefully throughout this entire thing. I also saw good adherence in lower class urban areas. The people who were absolutely the most resistant to direction are the working/middle class suburban and rural white folks.


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## bykfixer (Aug 9, 2021)

I went back to phase 1 at work today during an e-meeting. I invited a young intern to view my screen so he wouldn't have to log in on his and so I could introduce him to the client. The idea was he stay at arms length but he kept getting frustrated about what others on the other end were saying. He kept getting close to my screen (as in close to me), unmuting and speaking to the crowd. 

I pulled out my portable fan, muted and said "dude, the fan says back away from the boss". He kept getting annoyed and kept up his interuptions. I muted him mid sentence and turned on the fan blowing air away from me. Figuring he'd get the hint but never did I went off screen and put on a dental mask. 

So there I was leading a meeting with a mask on. Thing is on the other end were 5 fellows literally rubbing elbows. The client leader turned off his screen breifly and muted his mic. When he returned they were wearing dental masks too. 

My boss was in another town attending the meeting via telephone. After the meeting I got a text saying "bravo" about the mask. The intern got one scolding him for being an @$$ during the meeting and not wearing a mask while within 6' of a coworker. 

Basically I keep one in my shirt pocket, one hanging on the wall of my cubicle and have a 10 pack locked in a desk drawer. 
Aint no shame in my view. Vax'd, not vax'd, I don't care, I'm just back to doing my part to slow the spread (phase 2).


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## idleprocess (Aug 9, 2021)

nbp said:


> Hah!! That's funny. I work across many communities in my area, both upper class and working class, both red and blue. The upper class neighborhoods and have invariably followed the more stringent guidance and adhered to mask policies carefully throughout this entire thing. I also saw good adherence in lower class urban areas. The people who were absolutely the most resistant to direction are the working/middle class suburban and rural white folks.


Places where I'm likely to see low customer mask usage: liquor stores, Wal-Mart, Target, sit-down restaurants, home improvement stores. Places where I'm more likely to see higher customer (but not May 2020 levels) mask usage: grocery stores of all varieties, Costco, and surprisingly _Petsmart_. Staff seems more likely to wear masks if they're in a high-volume customer-facing role - i.e. cashiers regardless of the establishment.

With some reluctance I've ordered more KN95 masks from a trusted supplier to modify as primary filter media; a ¾" stirrup punch does an adequate job of punching a hole for _ersatz_ RZ mask check valves.


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## Poppy (Aug 9, 2021)

Good for you Mr Fixer!
I think/hope that there will be a turn-around, that people will start to wear masks in public crowded places, but that it will likely take a little more time, and/more scary hospitalization statistics.

Last week I entered a Walmart in Philadelphia, and there was a gent standing at the door handing out surgical masks, apologizing that it was a store requirement. "Thanks! No Problem!"

I've become comfortable not wearing a mask, knowing that I am 2 shot vaccinated. Now that studies have shown, that even the vaccinated may become a non-symptomatic carrier, I don't mind wearing a mask to protect others.

Today I entered a restaurant equipment store, and there was a great big sign on the door... "please put on a mask before entering the store"

I pulled my mask out and put it on... no biggie.
There was one customer, and three employees. None had a mask on!

I guess the sign was old.
I kept my mask on, just to send a message.

lol... I doubt the message was received.


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## Poppy (Aug 9, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> Places where I'm likely to see low customer mask usage: liquor stores, Wal-Mart, Target, sit-down restaurants, home improvement stores. Places where I'm more likely to see higher customer (but not May 2020 levels) mask usage: grocery stores of all varieties, Costco, and surprisingly _Petsmart_. Staff seems more likely to wear masks if they're in a high-volume customer-facing role - i.e. cashiers regardless of the establishment.
> 
> With some reluctance I've ordered more KN95 masks from a trusted supplier to modify as primary filter media; a ¾" stirrup punch does an adequate job of punching a hole for _ersatz_ RZ mask check valves.


I agree with your observations on current mask usage.

I too recently got a little more mask prepared.
I had four half face respirators, but gave one to my doctor friend, back in March 2020, when the virus hit the fan. There are four in my household. I now have four half face respirators, and additional replacement filters for them.

On my list of things to get are more N95 filters that are more socially acceptable, and easier to breath through. Honestly, I sense my heart rate increase when wearing the "Darth Vader" mask.

There is no doubt in my mind that the half face respirators are more effective. While wearing one (properly) I can't smell anything, except my own bad breath if I didn't brush my teeth. 

My daughter suggested that we stock up some, of the items that became unobtainable.


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## idleprocess (Aug 9, 2021)

Poppy said:


> On my list of things to get are more N95 filters that are more socially acceptable, and easier to breath through. Honestly, I sense my heart rate increase when wearing the "Darth Vader" mask.
> 
> There is no doubt in my mind that the half face respirators are more effective. While wearing one (properly) I can't smell anything, except my own bad breath if I didn't brush my teeth.


I find the half-face respirators with P100 filters easier to breathe through than everything else - suspect it's because of the considerably larger surface area.

The _smell test_ is futile for me - my sense of smell has always been largely absent.


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## Poppy (Aug 9, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> I find the half-face respirators with P100 filters easier to breathe through than everything else - suspect it's because of the considerably larger surface area.
> 
> The _smell test_ is futile for me - my sense of smell has always been largely absent.


Really? Maybe my filters are clogged! They have been in some contaminated areas.

My surgical masks are much easier to breath through. Much of the air is not filtered because it leaks through, around my nose and mouth. The N95 and KN95 masks fit better and offer more resistance to breathing than the surgical masks.

I'll try swapping in new filters, and maybe I'll wear my half face respirator more often.


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## idleprocess (Aug 10, 2021)

Poppy said:


> My surgical masks are much easier to breath through. Much of the air is not filtered because it leaks through, around my nose and mouth. The N95 and KN95 masks fit better and offer more resistance to breathing than the surgical masks.


To be fair... 

I've worn _just_ a surgical mask but a handful of times so I've got little basis for comparison
The slightly greater number of times I wore a cloth mask, it had an improvised insert of _shop towels,_ supposedly on par with N95 but a tad laborious to breathe through
Thanks to monolithic masks fogging my glasses like that's their primary design goal, I've only rarely worn just a KN95 or KN95 + surgical mask; >95% of the time it's a modified KN95 with exhale vents behind a surgical mask. Walking around a flat area it's OK but climbing stairs I'm suddenly acutely aware of its presence.
I wore a vented N95 once for an extended shopping expedition, beneath a surgical mask


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## Poppy (Aug 10, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> To be fair...
> 
> I've worn _just_ a surgical mask but a handful of times so I've got little basis for comparison
> The slightly greater number of times I wore a cloth mask, it had an improvised insert of _shop towels,_ supposedly on par with N95 but a tad laborious to breathe through
> ...


I wonder if this mask would offer a better fit around your nose and cheeks, so that there would be less eye glass fogging. Certainly it would offer better protection for YOU, but you'd still have to cover the exhalation to protect OTHERS.


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## Poppy (Aug 10, 2021)

This Parcil Safety unit says that it *can be used with glasses* and goggles. Does it do better than the 3M units? I don't know; perhaps it is just marketing. I chose to NOT get it because it uses proprietary filters. I suspect that replacements may be more expensive. 

The 3M units do not make any statement about glasses.









Parcil Safety Half Face Reusable Respirator and Organic Vapor Gas Mask-T-60 - The Home Depot


The T-60 half face gas mask by PARCIL DISTRIBUTION is an innovative modular design new to the respirator and safety mask space. The T-60 half face respirator has many characteristics that make it the new market leader in respiratory protection. The T-60 gas mask comes with proprietary threaded...



www.homedepot.com





.


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## ledbetter (Aug 10, 2021)

There’s a few brandless models of k95s that have a more pouch shape, kind of like a jock strap for your face, that are noticeably easier to breathe with than the standard model. I’ve bought some samples from the Anaconda that I’m testing for an upcoming trip. I would prefer to purchase a 3M product, but find them difficult to breathe with after a few minutes.


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## Cyclops942 (Aug 10, 2021)

With my beard, any mask with the ear loops is, at best, an attempt at theater.

I use a ScotteVest mask for when I am required to wear a mask, which actually creates a far better seal than any paper/fabric mask could ever hope to do, and it has a pocket in the proper location to hold an extra filter (on top of the two layers of fabric that make up the pocket itself).

If a business owner wants me to wear a mask, and I want to do business with them, I will wear a mask. Hey, their house means their rules. I figure my (sensible) choices are to either comply with the request/requirement to wear a mask, or turn around and leave. Thankfully, I work from home, so I don't have to wear a mask at work.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Aug 13, 2021)

Cyclops942 said:


> With my beard, any mask with the ear loops is, at best, an attempt at theater.
> 
> I use a ScotteVest mask for when I am required to wear a mask, which actually creates a far better seal than any paper/fabric mask could ever hope to do, and it has a pocket in the proper location to hold an extra filter (on top of the two layers of fabric that make up the pocket itself).
> 
> If a business owner wants me to wear a mask, and I want to do business with them, I will wear a mask. Hey, their house means their rules. I figure my (sensible) choices are to either comply with the request/requirement to wear a mask, or turn around and leave. Thankfully, I work from home, so I don't have to wear a mask at work.


If a business wants me to wear a mask, I'll wear a face shield. I can't breathe longer than 10-15 minutes wearing a mask, which is why I got fully vaccinated in the first place. At all my doctor's offices and at hospitals, I have to wear a surgical mask. An N95 would be better, but that makes it take less time before I have to take it off. I go to the bathroom or in the hall to take it off when I must catch my breath. That's the best I can do. I got an email saying that the hospitals are now requiring all visitors to be vaccinated and wear masks. Our local schools are requiring students, teachers, parents, and all employees to wear masks and all employees must be vaccinated. That didn't go over well at the board meetings. I heard of one parent who had a medical condition that made him not able to wear a mask and said so who was taken out in handcuffs. He's suing the school for violating Brown v. Board of Education, segregating out people who can't wear masks from accessing the school. That is also a violation of the Assistance with people with Disabilities Act of 1990, denying access to the disabled. Not to mention the governor of California is still under an injunction from issuing these executive orders not based on a law so they have no force of law. That guy is going to have a field day in court.

If you want people to wear masks for the public safety, fine. If you want people to get the vaccine for public safety, fine. But if you offer no exemptions for people with genuine medical disabilities that prevent them from visiting their children in school or saying goodbye to a dying loved one, you're going to pay big time. This will not stand. It's going to be challenged immediately. They kicked the hornet's nest. Step back and see what happens.


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## jtr1962 (Aug 13, 2021)

A respirator is a good alternative for those who may find a mask uncomfortable for long periods, or have medical conditions. I might start wearing mine if this gets much worse.

BTW, from what I'm seeing a lot of the fuss over masks and vaccines in schools is going to be moot soon anyway. This will repeat around the country ad nauseum. Unfortunately, measures like masks or vaccines are only effective if most people follow them. Since it seems to be the case that they won't, here we go with another year of remote learning.


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## idleprocess (Aug 13, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> If a business wants me to wear a mask, I'll wear a face shield. I can't breathe longer than 10-15 minutes wearing a mask, which is why I got fully vaccinated in the first place. At all my doctor's offices and at hospitals, I have to wear a surgical mask. An N95 would be better, but that makes it take less time before I have to take it off. I go to the bathroom or in the hall to take it off when I must catch my breath. That's the best I can do.


There's definitely *something* to wearing a mask for a period of time. I can manage walking around and light activity, but beyond that - loading a Costco run into the car, especially stairs - and wow does that breathing resistance become _profoundly noticeable_. I suspect that it's surmountable but I've not worn masks consistently enough to make headway.



Hooked on Fenix said:


> I heard of one parent who had a medical condition that made him not able to wear a mask and said so who was taken out in handcuffs. He's suing the school for violating Brown v. Board of Education, segregating out people who can't wear masks from accessing the school. That is also a violation of the Assistance with people with Disabilities Act of 1990, denying access to the disabled.


I do not believe they will get any traction on those fronts. Odds are it will be dismissed with a summary pre-trial motion - if they can even find a lawyer to take the case in the first place. A _declared public health emergency_ will likely override those concerns: a temporary inconvenience for the benefit of society at large.


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## turbodog (Aug 14, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> ...
> 
> A _declared public health emergency_ will likely override those concerns: a temporary inconvenience for the benefit of society at large.



Yup. In MS, the health dept, in an emergency, has VAST powers, even those of arrest.


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## Poppy (Aug 14, 2021)

This morning's news reported that the New York PD, and the New York health department will be enforcing mask mandates. I guess the health dept there has similar powers of enforcement.


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## bykfixer (Aug 14, 2021)

Return of the mask nazis 😱

In my state a bit over a year ago the mask mandate was put in place due to a-symptomatic folks passing it to others. Anybody remember that? But then the shot came about and everybody acted like the a-symptomatic spread was gone. 

Now during the period called 30 days to slow the spread some character had stated a million people would die in the US in 30 days, everybody put face covers on to avoid catching this thing. But after a little while nobody was suddenly keeling over in the grocery store so the general public stopped covering up their face for the most part. For some reason those same folks have not understood that the face covering is to lessen the likliehood that the wearer spread to virus to others. 

The mask mandates were never about avoiding the wearer catching the virus. They were (and are again) about the wearer spewing virus laiden droplets towards others. It's pretty basic really. 

Now I definitely understand the concern of others not wanting to catch this bug. And that is why to this day I stay 6 feet away, and when unable to wear a dental mask. The government does not have to make me do that. But when I see those elected officials not covering their face (or deplying one when the cameras are rolling) then tell me I have to? …… nope I care enough about the lady at the checkout counter or the Fed Ex driver to do what I do despite those lame-o hacks in official capacity's.


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## turbodog (Aug 14, 2021)

We are having a bit of a showdown in MS over countermeasures. The governor is playing politics and won't take a leadership position. All the while we are 5 days from our hospital system collapsing.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Aug 14, 2021)

idleprocess said:


> I do not believe they will get any traction on those fronts. Odds are it will be dismissed with a summary pre-trial motion - if they can even find a lawyer to take the case in the first place. A _declared public health emergency_ will likely override those concerns: a temporary inconvenience for the benefit of society at large.


In the case of California, the "declared public health emergency", aka mask and vaccine mandates is nullified by a judge's injunction banning the Governor from issuing any executive order not based on existing law without going through the legislature. The mandates have no power of law. That fact should help in cases against the mandates. The same governor making these mandates could be thrown out of office as early as next month. If this happens, those in power may change their tune and step back from forcing people to do things they don't want to do. You can only push people so far before they kick you out of office and sue you into oblivion.


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## idleprocess (Aug 14, 2021)

bykfixer said:


> Return of the mask nazis


Indeed.



bykfixer said:


> The mask mandates were never about avoiding the wearer catching the virus. They were (and are again) about the wearer spewing virus laiden droplets towards others. It's pretty basic really.


When the primary choice in 'PPE' is _meh tier_ - bandanas, T-shirts, gaiters, cloth masks _(whose print seems to be the primary design consideration)_, surgical masks - generally worn in a perfunctory fashion, source interception is about the best you can hope for.

Meanwhile the likes of KN95, FFP2, KF94 have been varyingly available this entire time _(and even N95s are available again)_ which offer the wearer reasonable protection in general public if worn consistently.



bykfixer said:


> But when I see those elected officials not covering their face (or deplying one when the cameras are rolling) then tell me I have to?


Bad examples for sure. But why fixate on that? It's a far lesser hypocrisy than certain immunities, tax treatment, and taxpayer largesse that they often enjoy.



bykfixer said:


> I care enough about the lady at the checkout counter or the Fed Ex driver to do what I do despite those lame-o hacks in official capacity's.


Same. I occasionally dropped out of usage circa May through mid-June but resumed the habit when out in public late June onward.


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## idleprocess (Aug 14, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> In the case of California, the "declared public health emergency", aka mask and vaccine mandates is nullified by a judge's injunction banning the Governor from issuing any executive order not based on existing law without going through the legislature.


So that impacts the state's ability to enact such mandates using implied emergency powers. What of localities?


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## jtr1962 (Aug 14, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> If this happens, those in power may change their tune and step back from forcing people to do things they don't want to do. You can only push people so far before they kick you out of office and sue you into oblivion.


And the flip side of that is incurring the wrath of people like myself who want a return to normalcy, have been diligently doing what they told us from day one, and have had it with this pandemic being stretched out by those crying about their supposed rights. First off, your rights end where your actions can potentially harm others. Second, all this fuss about a piece a cloth. _A piece of cloth. _Give me a break.

Additionally, you have overstretched medical personnel who are exhausted with what they now rightly see as preventable cases. I really hope a lot of these medical personnel just collectively decide to walk off the job in states where large numbers of people refuse to take measures needed to just stop this thing once and for all. These people made their bed, now let them sleep in it.


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## xxo (Aug 14, 2021)

jtr1962 said:


> And the flip side of that is incurring the wrath of people like myself who want a return to normalcy, have been diligently doing what they told us from day one, and have had it with this pandemic being stretched out by those crying about their supposed rights. First off, your rights end where your actions can potentially harm others. Second, all this fuss about a piece a cloth. _A piece of cloth. _Give me a break.


 
Yeah screw rights! Maybe we will handle the next pandemic like the CCP and just send in the military and shut down everything, stop all travel, tear up roads, lock people in their homes/weld apartment building doors shut and open up mass crematoriums. We can cancel/disappear anyone who asks questions or objects, censor all social media and the government officials/big tech and the media can gaslight to their little hart's content. The authorities can go door to door and take all of the cats and dogs can be brutality killed and maybe they will shoot on sight anyone find see not wearing a mask. It will be great!


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## turbodog (Aug 14, 2021)

Hooked on Fenix said:


> In the case of California, the "declared public health emergency", aka mask and vaccine mandates is nullified by a judge's injunction banning the Governor from issuing any executive order not based on existing law without going through the legislature. The mandates have no power of law. That fact should help in cases against the mandates. The same governor making these mandates could be thrown out of office as early as next month. If this happens, those in power may change their tune and step back from forcing people to do things they don't want to do. You can only push people so far before they kick you out of office and sue you into oblivion.


Maybe MS is doing better than CA in that respect. Public health emergency is at discretion of state medical office, not the governor.


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## jtr1962 (Aug 14, 2021)

xxo said:


> Yeah screw rights! Maybe we will handle the next pandemic like the CCP and just send in the military and shut down everything, stop all travel, tear up roads, lock people in their homes/weld apartment building doors shut and open up mass crematoriums. We can cancel/disappear anyone who asks questions or objects, censor all social media and the government officials/big tech and the media can gaslight to their little hart's content. The authorities can go door to door and take all of the cats and dogs can be brutality killed and maybe they will shoot on sight anyone find see not wearing a mask. It will be great!


Your rights end where someone else's begin. Period. And the governments of every country, including every democracy, have very broad powers in a public health emergency. You don't like it, there are countries you can relocate to without functioning governments where you can pretty much do as you please. Afghanistan sounds good right about now. Or maybe Somalia. Antarctica is the ultimate for no government as no country has claim to it.



Mask mandates are not unconstitutional, the DOJ says in a blistering 157-page rebuttal to a man who sued the CDC and 7 airlines


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## Poppy (Aug 14, 2021)

Years ago, seat belt laws made wearing them mandatory. I argued that they shouldn't make their use a law, but rather... the public should be educated of their benefits, and the public would choose to wear them.

I proposed that with each time the vehicle goes through inspection, that the owner should sit through a 15 minute video, showing how seatbelts saved lives, or dismemberment.

I lost the argument. They have been accepted.


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## raggie33 (Aug 14, 2021)

i do admit the motor cycle helmet law i didnt agree with at first but now im onld i understand ps when the car. hit me i should of been dead just pure luck my head injury was pretty much nothing compared to the rest of my body. but i still doknt wear a helmet. i admit im a idiot lol


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## jtr1962 (Aug 14, 2021)

Poppy said:


> Years ago, seat belt laws made wearing them mandatory. I argued that they shouldn't make their use a law, but rather... the public should be educated of their benefits, and the public would choose to wear them.
> 
> I proposed that with each time the vehicle goes through inspection, that the owner should sit through a 15 minute video, showing how seatbelts saved lives, or dismemberment.
> 
> I lost the argument. They have been accepted.


I agree with you on seat belts. A person not wearing a seat belt can only harm themselves. Sure, do public service announcements on why you should wear a seat belt but stop short of mandating them. Ditto for motorcycle helmets. Same for child bicycle helmet laws. I'm all for choice when that choice only affects the person making it.


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## jtr1962 (Aug 14, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> i do admit the motor cycle helmet law i didnt agree with at first but now im onld i understand ps when the car. hit me i should of been dead just pure luck my head injury was pretty much nothing compared to the rest of my body. but i still doknt wear a helmet. i admit im a idiot lol


I never wore a bicycle helmet and never will. I've thoroughly researched them. Studies show they're not particularly effective in most types of bicycle crashes, and just about useless in the bicycle-motor vehicle crashes which constitute over 90% of the cyclist fatalities which occur in the US.

Motorcycle helmets are a different story. They're designed to protect against much more severe crashes than bicycle helmets. And motorcycles move at much higher speeds than a bicycle. I would definitely wear a motorcycle helmet if I rode a motorcycle, whether it was required or not.


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## raggie33 (Aug 14, 2021)

jtr1962 said:


> I never wore a bicycle helmet and never will. I've thoroughly researched them. Studies show they're not particularly effective in most types of bicycle crashes, and just about useless in the bicycle-motor vehicle crashes which constitute over 90% of the cyclist fatalities which occur in the US.
> 
> Motorcycle helmets are a different story. They're designed to protect against much more severe crashes than bicycle helmets. And motorcycles move at much higher speeds than a bicycle. I would definitely wear a motorcycle helmet if I rode a motorcycle, whether it was required or not.


i was going pretty fast on my bike it was a eletric bike. damn thing was crazy fast for a bike


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## jtr1962 (Aug 14, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> i was going pretty fast on my bike it was a eletric bike. damn thing was crazy fast for a bike


Maybe a motorcycle helmet would have been a good idea then.


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## xxo (Aug 14, 2021)

jtr1962 said:


> Your rights end where someone else's begin. Period. And the governments of every country, including every democracy, have very broad powers in a public health emergency. You don't like it, there are countries you can relocate to without functioning governments where you can pretty much do as you please. Afghanistan sounds good right about now. Or maybe Somalia. Antarctica is the ultimate for no government as no country has claim to it.
> 
> 
> 
> Mask mandates are not unconstitutional, the DOJ says in a blistering 157-page rebuttal to a man who sued the CDC and 7 airlines


 
What rights? In your little dream world you have no rights – only the government and their oligarch partners have rights. In America the government was created to serve the people with our consent not rule over us.


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## jtr1962 (Aug 14, 2021)

xxo said:


> What rights? In your little dream world you have no rights – only the government and their oligarch partners have rights. In America the government was created to serve the people with our consent not rule over us.


OK, buddy. You have no interest in having any kind of an honest discussion with your ongoing character assassination of anyone who disagrees with you. The discussion's over. Blocked.


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## raggie33 (Aug 14, 2021)

ok lets lighten the mood who wants some watermelon? and ice cold budwiesier ?


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## jtr1962 (Aug 14, 2021)

raggie33 said:


> ok lets lighten the mood who wants some watermelon? and ice cold budwiesier ?


I'll take the Bud.


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## turbodog (Aug 14, 2021)

Bud? Nope. I prefer... Corona!


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## raggie33 (Aug 14, 2021)

turbodog said:


> i must try coronq i must also try that drink that comes in a pouch which i cant recall its name right now


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## raggie33 (Aug 14, 2021)

crown royal damn brain fart


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## Mister Ed (Aug 15, 2021)

This thread is closed. If you wish to discuss it further go to the underground.


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