# Actual Lumen Readings in 10.5in Sphere.



## bigchelis

Hi all,

I was fortunate to have learned a couple things from MrGman and he set me up with a 10.5in Sphere. Now, I can keep track of lights with bezels up to 2.5in. You can read about how my IS Sphere is made in MrGmans Sticky on post #3 and on. All the L2 hosts and 6P hosts have UCL lens and flush bezels.



*Sphere of Truth*​*P60 Drop-ins*
*Hosts ___________Drop-in___________________ Cells____________ Lumens____ Time______ 5m lux__1m lux (cal)*
Malkoff MD2________ M60_____________________ 2 AW CR123__________215.4______10 sec_________________________
TLS 2.5 Turbo____Nailbender XP-G R4____________1 IMR 18650__________271.5______1 sec________1,026____25,650___
_________________*1.4A Driver*_____________________________________241.5_____ 30 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________233.1______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________226.9______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________225.4______3 min_________________________
TLS 2.5 Turbo____Nailbender XP-G R4____________1 IMR 18650__________253.1______1 sec_________873_____21,825___
_________________*1.2A Driver*_____________________________________231.5_____ 30 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________223.1______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________215.4______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________212.3______3 min_________________________
TLS 2.5 Turbo_____Stock XR-E Q5________________1 IMR 18650_________ 159.2______1 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________144.6_____ 30 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________142.4______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________140.9______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________139.5______3 min_________________________
Surefire C3______Thrunite XP-G R5 1A Model_______2 AW 17500_________ 190.0______1 sec_________________________
Solarforce L2_____Anto XP-G R4_________________ 1 IMR 18650_________286.2 _____ 1 sec_________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 286.9_______30 sec_______________________
________________________________________________________________298.5_______1 min________
________________________________________________________________292.3_______2 min_______
________________________________________________________________288.5_______3 min__________
Solarforce L2_____Anto XP-G R4_________________ 1 IMR 18650___________326.9 ______ 1 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 310.8_______30 sec_______________________
_____________________*Arctic Silver 5* _______________________________304.6_______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________297.7_______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________294.6_______3 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________291.5_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Anto XP-G R5_________________1 AW 2600mAh________339.2 ______ 1 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 291.5_______30 sec_______________________
_____________________*SAMPLE #1*___________________________________286.9_______1 min________________________
__________________________________________________________________280.8_______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________________________278.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Anto XP-G R5_______________1 IMR 18650___________353.8 ______ 1 sec_________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 296.2_______30 sec_______________________
_____________________*SAMPLE #1* _________________________________291.5_______1 min________________________
________________________________________________________________284.6_______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________280.8_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Anto XP-G R5____________2 Surefire CR123_________292.2 ______ 1 sec_________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 237.7_______30 sec_______________________
_____________________*SAMPLE #1*_________________________________240.0_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 250.0_______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________249.2_______3 min________________________
________________________________________________________________256.2_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Anto XP-G R5_______________1 IMR 18650_________ 358.5 ______ 1 sec______313________7,825___
_______________________________________________________________ 319.2_______30 sec_______________________
_____________________*SAMPLE #2*_________________________________314.6_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________309.2_______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________306.9_______3 min________________________
________________________________________________________________303.8_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Anto XP-G R5______________1 AW 2600mAh________353.8 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 313.1_______30 sec_______________________
_____________________*SAMPLE #2* ________________________________310.0_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________304.6_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________302.3_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________300.0_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Anto XP-G R5_____________1 AW 2600mAh_________353.3 ______ 1 sec_________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 321.5_______30 sec_______________________
_____________________*SAMPLE #2*_________*Artic Silver 5*_____________ 315.4_______1 min________________________
________________________________________________________________308.5_______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________306.9_______3 min________________________
________________________________________________________________303.8_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Anto XP-G R5_____________1 AW 2600mAh_________369.2 ______ 1 sec_________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 000.0_______30 sec_______________________
_____________________*New V1.1*_________*Double Copper* _____________000.0_______1 min________________________
_____________________*Sample #1*____________________Pending_______ 000.0_______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________000.0_______3 min________________________
________________________________________________________________000.0_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Dereelight XR-E R2________1 IMR 18650____________237.7 ______ 1 sec______384______9,600____
_________________ *1.2A Driver, 3 mode*____________________________ 223.3_______30 sec_______________________
_________________*Orange Peel Reflector*___________________________ 217.7_______1 min_______________________
________________________________________________________________213.8_______2 min_______________________
________________________________________________________________211.5_______3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Solarforce XR-E R2_________2 AW 17500____________192.3 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 180.8_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*3.7~8.4V input________________________*179.2_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________176.2_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________175.4_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Solarforce XR-E R2_________1 AW 2600mAh_________218.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
___________________*Low Voltage*_____________1.6A at tail___________ 217.7_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*.09~4.2V input_______________________*218.5_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________216.2_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________216.9_______3 min________________________
______________________________________________________________219.2_______4 min________________________
Javelin 3AA_______Solarforce XR-E R2_________3 NiMH AA Tenergy ______ 190.0 ______ 1 sec_____________________
___________________*Low Voltage*_________________________________ 172.3_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*.09~4.2V input_______________________*172.3_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________180.0_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________184.6_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________184.6_______4 min________________________
Javelin 2AA_______Solarforce XR-E R2_________2 NiMH AA Tenergy ______ 97.7 ______ 1 sec_____________________
___________________*Low Voltage*_________________________________ 96.2 _______30 sec_______________________
________________________*.09~4.2V input______________________*96.2 _______1 min________________________
______________________________________________________________96.2 _______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________95.4 _______3 min________________________
______________________________________________________________95.4 _______4 min________________________
Javelin 1AA_______Solarforce XR-E R2_________1 NiMH AA Tenergy ______ 56.2 ______ 1 sec_____________________
___________________*Low Voltage*_________________________________ 56.2 _______30 sec_______________________
________________________*.09~4.2V input_______________________*56.2 _______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________56.2 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________56.2 _______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________56.2 _______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Dereelight XP-G_________1 AW 2600mAh___________303.1 ______ 1 sec________________________
___________________*Low Voltage*___________1.86A at tail____________ 280.8_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*.09~4.2V input______________________ *276.2_______1 min________________________
______________________________________________________________272.3_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________266.2_______3 min________________________
Javelin 3AA________Dereelight XP-G_________3 NiMH AA Tenergy________ 336.2 ______ 1 sec_____________________
___________________*Low Voltage*___________1.72A at tail____________ 293.8_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*.09~4.2V input_______________________*282.3_______1 min________________________
______________________________________________________________270.8_______2 min________________________
______________________________________________________________265.4_______3 min________________________
Javelin 3AA________Dereelight XP-G_________3 NiMH AA Duracell________ 283.8 ______ 1 sec_____________________
___________________*Low Voltage*_________________________________ 263.8_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*.09~4.2V input________________________*259.2_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 253.8_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 251.5_______3 min________________________
Javelin 2AA________Dereelight XP-G_________2 NiMH AA Duracell________ 246.9 ______ 1 sec_____________________
___________________*Low Voltage*_________________________________ 226.9_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*.09~4.2V input________________________*222.3_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________220.0_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________216.9_______3 min________________________
Javelin 3AA________Nailbender XP-G R4_____ 3 NiMH AA Tenergy________ 303.8 ______ 1 sec______230_______5,750____
___________________*Low Voltage*_________________________________ 276.9_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*1.3A At LED__________________________*269.2_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________260.0_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________255.4_______3 min________________________
Javelin 3AA________Nailbender XP-G R4_____ 3 NiMH AA Tenergy________ 324.6 ______ 1 sec______231_______5,775____
___________________*Low Voltage*_________________________________ 306.2_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*1.3A At LED________________Arctic Silver 5_____________*297.7_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________286.2_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________278.5_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________272.3_______4 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________267.7_______5 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Dereelight MC-E____________ 1 IMR 18650_________ 489.2 ______ 1 sec_______210_______5,250___
_______________________________________________________________ 439.2_______30 sec_______________________
_________________*2.5A driver from Shinningbeam* _________________________________435.4_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________410.0_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________398.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Dereelight MC-E____________ 1 IMR 18650_________ 553.8 ______ 1 sec_______272_______6,800___
_______________________________________________________________ 510.0_______30 sec_______________________
_________________*2.5A driver from Shinningbeam* _________________________________494.6_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________480.8_______2 min________________________
________________________*Arctic Silver 5*___________________________________________473.1_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________466.9_______4 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________463.1_______5 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____ Dereelight MC-E____________ 1 IMR 18650_________ 530.8 ______ 1 sec_______514______12,850___
_______________________________________________________________ 493.1_______30 sec_______________________
_________________*2.5A driver from Shinningbeam* _________________________________486.9_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________480.8_______2 min________________________
________________________*Arctic Silver 5*___________________________________________473.8_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________468.5_______4 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________465.4_______5 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Dereelight MC-E__________2 AW 2600mAh _________ 463.1 ______ 1 sec_______156_______3,900___
_______________________________________________________________ 416.2_______30 sec_______________________
______________________*2.1A driver Stock* _________________________________________393.8_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________365.4_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________348.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Dereelight MC-E__________2 AW 2600mAh _________ 523.1 ______ 1 sec_______204_______5,100___
_______________________________________________________________ 467.7_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.1A driver Stock* ______________________________________ 463.8_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________456.9_______2 min________________________
________________________*Arctic Silver 5*___________________________________________453.8_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________450.8_______4 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________448.5_______5 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Dereelight MC-E__________3 AW 17500____________ 485.4 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 463.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.1A driver Stock* ______________________________________ 457.7_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________450.8_______2 min________________________
________________________*Arctic Silver 5*___________________________________________447.7_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________445.4_______4 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____Dereelight MC-E__________2 AW 2600mAh _________ 470.8 ______ 1 sec_______417______10,425___
_______________________________________________________________ 420.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.1A driver Stock* ______________________________________ 414.6_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________406.9_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________402.3_______3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____Dereelight MC-E__________2 AW 2600mAh _________ 468.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 428.5_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.1A driver Stock* ______________________________________ 426.9_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________423.1_______2 min________________________
________________________*Arctic Silver 5*___________________________________________420.0_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________417.7_______4 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________416.2_______5 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____Dereelight XR-E R2_______ 2 AW 2600mAh _________ 225.4 ______ 1 sec_______529______13,225___
_______________________________________________________________ 213.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*1.2A Single Mode* ______________________________________ 209.2_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________204.6_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________202.3_______3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____Dereelight XR-E R2_______ 2 AW 2600mAh _________ 140.8 ______ 1 sec______2,500_____62,500___
_______________________________________________________________ 137.7_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*1.2A Single Mode* ___________*Aspherical Installed*__________ 135.4_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________133.8_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________133.1_______3 min________________________
Javelin 3AA________DX MC-E______________ 3 NiMH AA Tenergy_________403.1 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________*3 Mode* ______________________________________ 398.5_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*_________________________________________________ *380.8_______1 min________________________
_____________________*Sample #1*_________________________________________________363.8_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________350.0_______3 min________________________
Javelin 3AA________DX MC-E______________ 3 NiMH AA Tenergy_________443.1 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________*3 Mode* ______________________________________ 403.8_______30 sec_______________________
________________________*_________________________________________________ *371.5_______1 min________________________
_____________________*Sample #2*_________________________________________________357.7_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________344.6_______3 min________________________
Solarforce L2 UCL___Nailbender SST-50__________1 IMR 18650__________ 500.0 ______ 1 sec____212_________6,300____
_______________________________________________________________ 435.4_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.5A 3 mode driver* _____________________________________422.3_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________410.0_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 403.1_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender SST-50__________1 IMR 18650__________ 505.4 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 465.4_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.5A 3 mode driver* ____________*Arctic Silver 5*____________454.6_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________443.1_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 436.2_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 430.8_______4 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____Nailbender SST-50__________1 IMR 18650__________ 499.2 ______ 1 sec____425________10,625____
_______________________________________________________________ 433.1_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.5A 3 mode driver* _____________________________________423.8_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________416.9_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 413.8_______3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____Nailbender SST-50__________1 IMR 18650__________ 498.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 440.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.5A 3 mode driver* ____________*Arctic Silver 5*____________436.2_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________429.2_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 426.2_______3 min________________________
Seraph SP-9_______Solarforce XP-G_____________3 AW 17500__________ 320.8 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 280.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*______________________________________*____________270.8_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________260.8_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 254.6_______3 min________________________
Seraph SP-9_______Solarforce XP-G_____________3 IMR 16340__________ 321.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 283.1_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*______________________________________*____________273.8_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________263.8_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 260.0_______3 min________________________
Seraph SP-9_______Solarforce XP-G____________1 AW 2600mAh_________ 223.8 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 231.5_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*______________________________________*____________238.5_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________200.0_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 199.2_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_______Solarforce XP-G__________3 IMR 16340__________ 317.7 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 289.2_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*______________________________________*____________286.2_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________283.8_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 282.3_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_______Solarforce XP-G__________3 IMR 16340__________ 318.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 300.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Arctic Silver 5____________________*_______________298.5_______1 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________296.4_______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 293.1_______3 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 291.5_______4 min________________________
Dereelight DBS______Nailbender XP-E R3_________ 2 IMR 16340_________ 246.9 ______ 1 sec_______510______12,750___
_______________________________________________________________ 216.2_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Arctic Silver 5* _________________*850mA at tail*__________212.3_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________209.2_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________207.7_______3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS______Nailbender XP-E R3______1 AW 2600mAh _________ 179.2 ______ 1 sec_____________________
_____________________*Arctic Silver 5*_______________________________179.2_______30 sec_______________________
________________________________________________________*950mA at tail*_______179.2_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________177.7_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________177.7_______3 min________________________
Solarforce Skyline I______XR-E R2_____________1 AW 2600mAh_________ 121.5 ______ 1 sec_______753______18,825___
_______________________________________________________________ 123.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_______________*_______________________________________ 125.4_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________126.2_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________125.4_______3 min________________________
Solarforce Skyline I______XR-E R2___________2 CR123 Primaries_________147.7 ______ 1 sec_______800______20,000___
_______________________________________________________________ 143.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_______________*_________________*___________*_________ 144.6_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________148.5_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________149.2_______3 min________________________
Solarforce Skyline II______XR-E R2___________2 CR123 Primaries________ 185.4 ______ 1 sec_______527______13,175___
_______________________________________________________________ 176.2_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_______________*_________________*___________*_________ 177.7_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________179.2_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________184.6_______3 min________________________
Solarforce Skyline II_____XR-E R2_____________1 AW 2600mAh__________147.7 ______ 1 sec_______294_______7,350___
_______________________________________________________________ 146.2_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_______________*_______________________________________ 144.6_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________143.8_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________143.8_______3 min________________________
Solarforce Masterpiece_____XR-E R2___________2 IMR 16340____________226.2 ______ 1 sec_____1,947______48,675___
_______________________________________________________________ 215.4_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_______________*_______________________________________ 213.1_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________211.1_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________210.0_______3 min________________________
Malkoff VME Twistie____M30 XR-E Q5__________1 IMR 16340____________294.6 ______ 1 sec_______________________
_______________________________________________________________ 263.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_______________*_______________________________________ 254.6_______1 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________245.4_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________241.5_______3 min________________________
Malkoff VME Twistie____M30 XR-E Q5__________1 IMR 16340____________313.8 ______ 1 sec______208_______5,200___
_______________________________________________________________ 273.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Arctic Silver 5___*__________*1.68A at tail*_______________ 263.8_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________254.6_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________250.0_______3 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________245.4_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL________M30 XR-E Q5________1 AW 2600mAh___________ 300.8 ______ 1 sec______179_______4,475 ___
_______________________________________________________________ 276.9_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Arctic Silver 5___*__________*1.86A at tail*_______________ 272.3_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________266.2_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________263.8_______3 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________262.3_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL________M30 XR-E Q5_________ 1 AW 17670____________ 300.0 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 272.3_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Arctic Silver 5___*__________*1.80A at tail*_______________ 267.7_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________262.3_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________259.2_______3 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________256.9_______4 min________________________
UBH Body w/spacer_____M30 XR-E Q5_________ 1 AW 17670____________189.2 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 183.1_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Arctic Silver 5___*__________*__________*_______________ 182.3_______1 min______________________
_________*The 100+ loss in lumens was due to E-series clicky*________________________179.2_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________179.2_______3 min________________________
UBH Body_____________M30 XR-E Q5___________2 AA NiZn ____________189.2 ______ 1 sec________________________
________________*3.5v Input = 1A at the tail*_________________________183.1_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Arctic Silver 5___*__________*__________*_______________ 182.3_______1 min______________________
______________*I swapped to a old school twistie__________*________________________179.2_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________179.2_______3 min________________________
Malkoff VME Twistie____M30 XR-E Q5__________1 IMR 16340____________230.8 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 216.2_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Sample #2___*________________________________________210.0_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________205.4_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________196.9_______3 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________193.1_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL________M30 XR-E Q5__________1 AW 2600mAh_________ 222.3 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 220.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Sample #2___*______________*1A at the tail*______________ 219.2_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________216.9_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________215.4_______3 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________215.4_______4 min________________________
Malkoff MD2__________M30 XR-E Q5__________ 1 AW 2600mAh_________ 210.0 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 201.5_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*___Sample #2___*______________*1A at the tail*______________ 198.5_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________197.7_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________195.4_______3 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________192.3_______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________M60LLF_____________ 2 AW 2600mAh_________ 80.8 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 81.5 _______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_______________*____________*124mA at the tail*____________81.5 _______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________82.3 _______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________82.3 _______3 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________82.3 _______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________M60LF______________ 2 AW 2600mAh_________ 155.4 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 155.4 _______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_______________*____________*283mA at the tail*____________155.4 _______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________156.2 _______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________156.9 _______3 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________156.2 _______4 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL__________M61_____________2 Surefire CR123__________ 300.0 _______1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 274.6 _______30 sec_______________________
________________*Sample #1_______________*_________*690mA at the tail*____________272.3 _______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________270.8 _______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________267.7 _______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL__________M61_______________2 IMR 16340___________ 320.0 _______1 sec____200______5,000______
_______________________________________________________________ 286.2 _______30 sec_______________________
________________*Sample #1_______________*_________*540mA at the tail*____________282.3 _______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________278.5 _______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________276.2 _______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL__________M61_____________3 Surefire CR123__________ 317.7 _______1 sec_______________________
_______________________________________________________________ 284.6 _______30 sec_______________________
________________*Sample #1_______________*_________*543mA at the tail*____________283.1 _______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________278.5 _______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________274.6 _______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL__________M61_______________2 IMR 16340___________ 000.0 _______1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 000.0 _______30 sec_______________________
________________*Sample #2_______________*_____________*mA at the tail*___________ 000.0 _______1 min______________________
__________________________________*Pending**_____________________________________000.0 _______2 min______________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________000.0 _______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 2 AW 2600mAh_________ 396.2 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 349.2_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*1.5A Single Mode___*___________*822mA at the tail*___________340.8_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________331.5_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________326.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 1 AW 2600mAh_________ 332.3 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 314.6_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*1.5A Single Mode___*___________*1.35A at the tail*____________312.3_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________306.9_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________302.3_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5________2 RCR123 Primaries_______ 363.8 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 306.9_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*1.5A Single Mode___*_____________________________________ 293.8_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________282.3_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________262.3_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 2 AW 2600mAh_________ 403.1 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 350.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*1.5A Single Mode___*___________*822mA at the tail*___________343.8_______1 min______________________
________________________*Arctic Silver 5*__________________________________________335.5_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________331.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 2 AW 2600mAh_________ 371.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 331.5_______30 sec_______________________
_________________________*1.5A 3 MODE___*________________*3 MODE*_________________327.7_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________321.5_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________320.8_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________ 1 AW 2600mAh_________ 238.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 237.7_______30 sec_______________________
_________________________*1.5A 3 MODE___*________________*3 MODE*_________________221.5_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________221.5_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________221.5_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Thrunite XP-G R5_________2 RCR123 Primaries______ 313.1 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 262.3_______30 sec_______________________
_________________________*1.5A 3 MODE___*________________*3 MODE*_________________251.5_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________*Humm Noise*_____________________________ 211.5_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________ 185.4_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Deal Extreme XP-G________2 AW 2600mAh_________ 312.3 ______ 1 sec________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 260.0_______30 sec_______________________
_________________________*3.6V~18V___*_______________*Turned blue* ________________251.5_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________241.5_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________236.9_______3 min________________________
Surefire 6P_________LumensFactory R2_________ 2 AW 17670___________ 209.2 ______ 1 sec________________________
____*D36 Bezel by Lumens Factory*__________________________________197.7_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*_________________________________________*__________ 193.8_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________190.8_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________189.2_______3 min________________________
*Surefire C2 UCL*__*Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5*____*1 AW 2600mAh*________ 1050.8 ______ 1 sec____283_______7,075_____
Brass+McClicky__________________________________________________ 1057.7_______30 sec______________________
___________________________3.2A at the tail_______________________________________ 1050.0_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________1050.0_______2 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 1050.0_______3 min_______________________
*Surefire C2 UCL*____*Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5*____*1 IMR 18650*________ 1260.8 ______ 1 sec____351_______8,775_____
Brass+McClicky__________________________________________________ 1190.8_______30 sec______________________
___________________________4A at the tail________________________________________ 1155.4_______1 min______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________1118.5_______2 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 1098.5_______3 min_______________________
*Surefire C2 UCL*____*Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5*____*2 IMR 18650*________ 826.2 ______ 1 sec_________________________
____________________4500 WARM/Regulated________________________ 801.5_______30 sec______________________
____________________________1.32A at the tail_____________________________________ 793.1_______1 min______________________
______________________Moddoo Zero resistance Mod_________________________________783.1_______2 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 776.9_______3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender Linger_________1 IMR 18650____________576.9 ______ 1 sec____________________
__________________________*Dual Warm XP-G*______________________ 492.3 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*Arctic Silver 5_______*____________________*2.8A at the tail*___________ 478.5 _______1 min______________________
____________________________________*Stock Twistie*______________________________ 466.2 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 458.5_______3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender Linger_________1 IMR 18650____________616.9 ______ 1 sec____________________
__________________________*Dual Warm XP-G*______________________ 510.0 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*Arctic Silver 5_______*____________________*2.8A at the tail*___________ 497.7 _______1 min______________________
_________________________________*Brass+McClicky*______________________________ 486.2 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 477.7_______3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender Linger_________1 IMR 18650____________673.0 ______ 1 sec____________________
__________________________*Dual COOL XP-G *______________________ 592.3 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*_______*_____________*2.8A at the tail*______________________________ 577.7 _______1 min______________________
____________________________________*Stock Twistie*______________________________ 562.3 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 546.2_______3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender Linger_________1 IMR 18650____________715.4 _______1 sec____________________
__________________________*Dual COOL XP-G *______________________ 583.8 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*_______Arctic Silver 5_____*___*2.8A at the tail*_______________________571.5 _______1 min______________________
____________________________________*Stock Twistie*______________________________ 553.8 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 545.4_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender Linger_________1 IMR 18650____________723.1 _______1 sec____________________
__________________________*Dual COOL XP-G *______________________ 574.6 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*_______Arctic Silver 5_____*___*2.8A at the tail*_______________________554.6 _______1 min______________________
_________________________________*Brass+McClicky*_______________________________540.0 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 533.1_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender SST-90_________1 IMR 18650___________ 738.5 _______1 sec____________________
_________________________DD*_____________*______________________688.5 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*___*4.91Aat the tail*_______________________________________ 656.9 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*Stock Twistie*________________________________________ 645.4 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 638.5_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender SST-90_________1 IMR 18650___________ 1176.2 _______1 sec____________________
_________________________DD*_____________*______________________893.1 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*___*4.91Aat the tail*_______________________________________ 856.2 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*Brass+McClicky*______________________________________ 836.2 _______2 min_____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 826.2_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender SST-90_______1 AW 2600mAh___________1047.7 _______1 sec_______________________
_________________________DD*_____________*______________________887.7 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*____*4Aat the tail*_________________________________________ 854.6 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*Brass+McClicky*______________________________________ 816.2 _______2 min_____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 816.2_______ 3 min_______________________
Solarforce L2P UCL_____Nailbender SST-90_________1 IMR 18650________ 638.5 _______1 sec________________________
______________________2.8A Driver*_____________*__________________ 603.8 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*___*2.73A* *at the tail*_______________________________________ 583.1 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________ 563.1 _______2 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 547.1_______ 3 min_______________________
Solarforce L2P UCL_____Nailbender SST-90_______1 AW 2600mAh________ 679.2 _______1 sec________________________
_______________________2.8A Driver*_____________*_________________ 624.6 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*____*2.6A at the tail*_______________________________________ 600.0 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________ 575.4 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 561.5_______ 3 min_______________________
Solarforce L2P UCL_____Nailbender SST-90______2 Surefire CR123________ 693.1 _______1 sec_____253_______6,325_____
_______________________2.8A Driver*_____________*_________________ 621.5 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*____*2.8A at the tail*_______________________________________ 596.1 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________ 564.6 _______2 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender XRE-E R2 Optic_____2 IMR 18650________ 292.3 _______1 sec_________________________
_________________________*_______________*______________________253.1 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*750mA* *at the tail*_______________________________________240.0 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________ 232.3 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 230.8_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____Nailbender XRE-E R2 Optic_____2 IMR 18650________ 290.8 _______1 sec________________________
_________________________*_______________*______________________253.8 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*750mA* *at the tail*_______________*Arctic Silver 5*___________ 245.4 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________ 239.2 _______2 min_____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 238.5_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____NeoFab D1000_______________1 IMR 18650________ 241.5 _______1 sec________________________
________________*Optic XP-E R3 Regulated at 1A__________*_________ 217.7 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*1.01A* *at the tail*_______________________________________ 223.8 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________222.3 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________222.3_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____NeoFab D1000_______________2 IMR 18650________ 251.5 _______1 sec____240_______6,000_____
________________*Optic XP-E R3 Regulated at 1A__________*_________ 226.9 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*________________________________________________________ 226.2 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________223.8 _______2 min_____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________222.3_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____NeoFab D1500_______________1 IMR 18650________ 393.8 _______1 sec____________________
_______________*Optic XP-G R5 Regulated at 1.5A__________*_________357.7 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*1.5A* *at the tail*________________________________________ 355.4 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________351.5 _______2 min_____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________346.9_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____NeoFab D1500_______________2 IMR 18650________ 412.3 _______1 sec____275_______6,875_____
______________*Optic XP-G R5 Regulated at 1.5A__________*_________ 354.6 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*____________675mA at tail*_______________________________________ 353.8 _______1 min______________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________347.7 _______2 min_____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________346.2_______ 3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_____NeoFab D1500_______________2 IMR 18650_________415.4 _______1 sec______________________
______________*Optic XP-G R5 Regulated at 1.5A__________*_________ 361.5 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*____________675mA at tail*_______________________________________ 356.9 _______1 min______________________
________________*Moddoo Zero Resistance TailCap Installed_*________________________ 354.6 _______2 min_____________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 353.1_______ 3 min_______________________
Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple______1 IMR 18650________ 723.8 _______1 sec________________________
Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 cool 3mode_______________________ 641.5 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*____________*________________2.8A at tail_______________ 629.2 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________618.5 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________613.8_______ 3 min________________________
Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple______1 AW 2600mAh______682.3 _______1 sec________________________
Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 cool 3mode_______________________ 622.3 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*____________*________________________________________ 613.8 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*________________2.7a at tail_____________606.2 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________597.7_______ 3 min________________________
Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple_______1 IMR 18650_______680.8 _______1 sec________________________
Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 warm 3mode______________________580.8 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*____________*________________________________________ 548.5 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*________________2.8a at tail_____________523.8 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________523.2_______ 3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_______Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 18650________ 447.7 _______1 sec_________________________
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________365.4 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*1.1A at the tail*_________________________________________352.3 _______1 min________________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*____________________________________343.8 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added_____________________________________________ _________________________ 339.2_______ 3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS________Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 16340________404.6 _______1 sec____504______12,600______
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________354.6 _______30 sec_______________________
Smooth Reflector_*_______*__*1.1A at the tail*_________________________________________346.2 _______1 min________________________
_____________________________*_____________*____________________________________340.8 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added_____________________________________________ _________________________ 338.5_______ 3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_______Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 18650________ 334.6 _______1 sec_________________________
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________274.6 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*1.3A at the tail*_________________________________________268.5 _______1 min________________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*____________________________________261.5 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added_____________________________________________ _________________________258.5_______ 3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS________Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 16340________337.7 _______1 sec____927______23,175______
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________274.6 _______30 sec_______________________
Smooth Reflector_*_______*__*1.3A at the tail*_________________________________________270.0 _______1 min________________________
_____________________________*_____________*____________________________________265.4 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added_____________________________________________ _________________________262.3_______ 3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________2 NiMH Tenergy AA________249.2 _______1 sec_________________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________233.8 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*1.25A at the tail*________________________________________232.3 _______1 min________________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*____________________________________ 230.0 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 228.5_______ 3 min________________________ Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________1 NiMH Tenergy AA________193.8 ________1 sec________________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________173.1 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*____________________1.97A at tail__________166.9 ________1 min_______________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________161.5 ________2 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________156.9_________3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31___________2 NiZn AA____________ 323.1 _______1 sec_________________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________289.2 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*____________________1.1A at tail___________ 282.3 _______1 min________________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________273.8 _______2 min________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 273.8_______ 3 min________________________ Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31___________1 NiZn AA____________ 234.6 ________1 sec________________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________230.8 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*____________________2.45A at tail__________ 226.9 ________1 min_______________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________ 223.8 ________2 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________ 220.0_________3 min_______________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________2 Energizer L91 AA________246.2 _______1 sec____________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________232.3 _______30 sec___________________
______________*________*__*1A at the tail*___________________________ 230.8 _______1 min___________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________228.5 _______2 min___________________
_______________________________________________________________ 226.9_______ 3 min______________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________1 Energizer L91 AA________182.3 ________1 sec__________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________157.7 _______30 sec_______________
______________*________*____________________1.8A at tail___________155.4 ________1 min_____________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________153.8 ________2 min_______________
_______________________________________________________________153.8_________3 min______________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31_____2 Energizer Alkaline AA_______ 249.2 _______1 sec_____________
___________________________*_______________*____________________235.4 _______30 sec_________________
______________*________*____________________1A at tail_____________233.1 _______1 min__________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________230.8 _______2 min__________________
_______________________________________________________________ 228.5_______ 3 min__________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31_____1 Energizer Alkaline AA_______ 186.2 ________1 sec________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________159.2 _______30 sec________________
______________*________*____________________2.1A at tail___________ 150.0 ________1 min________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________ 138.5 ________2 min________________
_______________________________________________________________ 133.1_________3 min________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31_________1 Surefire CR123_________ 246.2 ________1 sec________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________234.6 _______30 sec________________
______________*________*____________________1.2A at tail___________ 232.3 ________1 min________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________ 229.2 ________2 min________________
_______________________________________________________________ 228.5_________3 min________________






















*______________________________________________________________________________________________*
*________Surefire lights stock and modded____________________*
*Light_____________________LED_____________ Cells____________ Lumens____ Time___5m lux__1m lux (cal)__*
KL4 by DarkZero_____________P7 DD_____________1 IMR 16340_________484.6______1 sec_________________________
Vital Gear 1cell body___________________________*2.5A at tail*__________419.2______30 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________393.8______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________378.5______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________366.2______3 min_________________________
KL4 by DarkZero_____________P7 DD_____________1 IMR 18650_________574.6______1 sec_________________________
Fivemega 1 18650 ________________________________________________484.6______30 sec_______________________
________________________________________________________________452.3______1 min_________________________
Surefire A2 RED______________Stock________2 CR123 Thrustfires_________90.8______1 sec__________________________
____________________________________________*8.4V Input*__________ 87.7______30 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 86.2______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 85.4______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 85.4______3 min_________________________
Surefire A2 White LED's________Stock________2 CR123 Primaries_________98.5______1 sec__________________________
____________________________________________6*V Input__*__________ 95.4______30 sec_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 95.4______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 93.8______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 93.1______3 min_________________________
Surefire LX2________________Stock__________2 Surefire CR123__________249.2______1 sec_____376______9,400_______
_______________________________________________________________ 245.4______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 243.1______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 239.2______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 237.7______3 min_________________________
Surefire LX2________________Stock____________2 IMR 16340____________251.5______1 sec_________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 245.4______30 sec________________________
_________________________________________ 497mA at tail___________ 243.1______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 240.0______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 238.5______3 min_________________________
Surefire X300_______________Stock__________2 Surefire CR123__________210.8______1 sec_____336______8,400_______
_______________________________________________________________ 206.9______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 206.9______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 204.6______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 203.1______3 min_________________________
Surefire L2____________Stock Luxeon_________2 Surefire CR123__________169.2______1 sec_________________________
___________________Stock Reflector________________________________ 163.8______30 sec________________________
_________________________________________1.25A at tail_____________162.3______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 160.0______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 160.0______3 min_________________________
Surefire L2____________Stock Luxeon__________2 IMR 16340____________ 260.0______1 sec_________________________
___________________Stock Reflector________________________________ 222.3______30 sec________________________
_________________________________________1.65A at tail_____________216.9______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 211.5______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 211.5______3 min_________________________
Surefire E2L__________Stock Luxeon_________2 Surefire CR123___________110.8______1 sec_________________________
*Outdoorsman*__________Stock Optic_________________________________110.0______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 110.0______1 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 110.0______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 110.0______3 min_________________________
Surefire U2 Ultra____________Stock__________2 Surefire CR123__________133.1______1 sec__________________________
_______________________________________________________________ 117.7______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________122.3______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________119.2______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________117.7______3 min_________________________
Surefire U2 Ultra_________MC-E Warm________2 Surefire CR123__________351.5______1 sec____197________4,925_____
*AaronM custom*___________________________Uses Stock Driver________ 316.9______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________309.2______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________1A at tail_____________ 308.5______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________306.2______3 min_________________________
Surefire L2______________MC-E Warm________2 Surefire CR123__________416.9______1 sec__________________________
*AaronM custom*____________2s2P__________Uses Stock Driver__________415.4______30 sec_________________________
_________Huge Copper Heatsink_____________________________________415.4______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________1A at tail_____________ 414.6______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________413.8______3 min_________________________
Surefire L2____________SST-50 Cool________2 Surefire CR123___________ 540.0______1 sec_____166_______4,150_____
*AaronM custom*______________Surefire TiR Optic______________________497.7______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________478.5______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________2.2A at tail____________456.9______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________450.0______3 min_________________________
Surefire L2____________SST-90 Cool________2 Surefire CR123___________ 803.1______1 sec_____156_______3,900_____
*AaronM custom*________Reflector___________________________________725.4______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________701.5______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________2.6A at tail____________675.4______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 666.2______3 min_________________________
Surefire L4__________MC-E K-bin Neutral__________1 AW 17670__________287.7______1 sec____63________1,575_____
*AaronM custom*___________________________Uses Stock Driver_________ 281.5______30 sec________________________
Reflector_________________________________________________________280.0______1 min_________________________
_________________________________________1.3A at tail______________276.2______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 276.2_____ 3 min________________________
Surefire KL4_________Ostar QY-bin Neutral________2 AW 17500__________406.2______1 sec____54________1,350_____
*AaronM custom*_______6die LED____________________________________ 390.0______30 sec________________________
Reflector_________________________________________________________380.0______1 min_________________________
UBH-body__________________________________2.29A at tail____________372.3______2 min________________________
____________________________Got Super hot and turned off_____________000.0_____ 3 min________________________
Surefire L4____________K2 TFFC_______________2 AW CR123____________231.5______1 sec____*524________13,100*
*AaronM custom*___________________________________________________226.9______30 sec________________________
Reflector is Aftermarket_____________________________________________224.6______1 min_________________________
__________________________________________.55mA at tail____________221.5______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 219.2_____ 3 min________________________
Surefire E2e___________XP-G R5 Cool________1 Thrustfire 17670_________299.2______1 sec________________________
*KuKu drop-in*__________________Single Mode________________________ 257.7______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________253.8______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________1A at tail_____________ 252.3______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 252.3______3 min________________________
Surefire E2e___________XP-G R5 Cool________1 Thrustfire 17670_________339.2______1 sec________________________
*KuKu drop-in*______________________3 Mode________________________ 275.4______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________265.4______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________1.39A at tail___________261.5______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 260.0______3 min________________________
Surefire L4__________MC-E K-bin Warm_________2 IMR 16340____________416.2______1 sec_____163________4,075____
*Milky Goosamer*__________________________________________________396.9______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________386.2______ 1 min_________________________
___________________________________________1.3A at tail____________370.0______ 2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 365.4______3 min________________________ 
Surefire L1__________XR-E R2 DD______________1 AW 17670____________391.5______1 sec_____*593___14,825___*_
*Milky L1 ExTreme*_________________________________________________346.2______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________340.0______ 1 min_________________________
_____________*Huge Copper Heatsink*___________2A at tail_____________336.9______ 2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________333.8_______3 min________________________
Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________1 IMR 16340__________ 722.3______1 sec________________________
*Milky RoomSweeper*______________________________________________ 526.9______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 513.1______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________3.5A at tail___________ 511.5______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 504.6______3 min________________________
Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________1 IMR 16340__________ 784.6______1 sec________________________
*Milky RoomSweeper*_______________________________________________538.5______30 sec________________________
__________________E-series Twiste__________________________________526.2______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________3.5A at tail____________517.7______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 507.7______3 min________________________
Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________ 2 NiZn AA __________ 584.6______1 sec________________________
*Milky RoomSweeper*______________________________________________ 523.8______30 sec________________________
__________________E-series Twiste_________________________________ 481.5______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________1.8A at tail___________ 466.2______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 468.5______3 min________________________
Surefire M6 KT-4_______P4 SOB1000 Tower________6 Surefire CR123______ 120.0______1 sec_________________________
*JustinCase made drop-in*__________________________________________ 114.6______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________113.8______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________112.3______2 min_________________________
Surefire KT-2_________P4 SOB1000 Tower_________2 AW 2600mAh_______ 159.2______1 sec_________________________
*JustinCase made drop-in*__________________________________________ 149.2______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________147.7______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________147.7______2 min_________________________
Surefire KT-4_______XP-G R4 SOB1227 Tower_______3 AW 2600mAh_______169.2______1 sec_________________________
*JustinCase made drop-in*__________________________________________ 150.0______30 sec________________________
Fivemega Megallenium_____________________________________________ 148.5______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________146.9______ 2 min________________________
Surefire KL4__________Luxeon 5W stock_______2 Surefire CR123__________121.5______1 sec_________________________
*UBH body w/twistie*_______________________________________________109.2______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 107.7______ 1 min________________________
__________________________________________1.43A at tail____________105.4______ 2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 105.4_______3 min________________________
Surefire KL4__________Luxeon 5W stock_________1 AW 17670___________ 124.6______1 sec_________________________
*UBH body w/twistie*_______________________________________________110.8______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 107.7______ 1 min________________________
___________________________________________1.8A at tail____________103.1______ 2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 103.1_______3 min________________________
Surefire KL4__________Luxeon 5W stock_________2 AW 17500___________ 160.8______1 sec_________________________
*UBH body w/twistie*_______________________________________________131.5______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 127.7______ 1 min________________________
__________________________________________1.1A at tail_____________126.2______ 2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 126.2_______3 min________________________


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Lights with 1500+lumens were measured with 24.5in Sphere!!

*___________Maglight builds/drop-ins__________________________*
*Light_____________________LED_____________ Cells____________ Lumens____ Time___5m lux__1m lux (cal)__*
Electrolumens Tripple_________3P7 DD___________3 IMR 18650___________914.6______1 sec_________________________
4C Mag_____________________*Drop-in________*______________________ 893.1______30 sec_______________________
*Sample #1*_______________________________________________________ 883.1______1 min________________________
________________________*1.8A at the tail*____________________________833.1______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________823.1______3 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________807.7______4 min________________________
Electrolumens Tripple_________3P7 DD___________3 DX C cells___________897.7______1 sec_________________________
_____________________*Drop-in________*____________________________ 883.8______30 sec_______________________
*Sample #2*_______________________________________________________ 870.0______1 min________________________
________________________*1.8A at the tail*____________________________841.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________825.4______3 min________________________
Electrolumens Tripple_________3P7 DD___________3 AW C cells___________856.2______1 sec_________________________
4C Mag_____________________*Drop-in________*______________________ 843.8______30 sec_______________________
*Sample #2*_______________________________________________________ 820.0______1 min________________________
_________________________*1.6A at tail*______________________________ 789.2______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________758.5______3 min________________________
Malkoff Mag Drop-in_________P7 2.8A driver______2 AW 18650____________ 463.1______1 sec________________________
2D Mag___________________________*________*______________________ 389.2______30 sec_______________________
*_________*_______________________________________________________ 392.3______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 393.1______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 390.8______3 min________________________
Malkoff Mag Drop-in_________XP-G R4__________4D Alkalines____________ 164.6______1 sec________________________
4D Mag___________________________*________*______________________ 139.2______30 sec_______________________
JustinCase swapped out the P4 for XP-G_______________________________ 136.2______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 133.8______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 132.3______3 min________________________
Nailbender_________________P7 DD_________1 AW 2600mAh____________ 682.3______1 sec________________________
1D Mag Sample #1____________________*________*____________________ 626.2______30 sec_______________________
*_________*_____________________________________3.45A at tail_______ 618.5______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________590.0______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________588.5______3 min________________________
Nailbender_________________P7 DD___________1 IMR 26650____________ 770.8______1 sec________________________
1D Mag Sample #1____________________*________*____________________ 676.2______30 sec_______________________
*_________*_____________________________________3.65A at tail_______ 656.9______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________639.2______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________605.4______3 min________________________
Nailbender_________________P7 DD___________1 IMR 18650____________ 661.5______1 sec________________________
1D Mag Sample #2____________________*________*____________________ 627.7______30 sec_______________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 613.8______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________592.3______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________577.7______3 min________________________
Nailbender_________________P7 DD___________1 IMR 26650____________ 643.1______1 sec_____550_______13,750____
1D Mag Sample #2____________________*________*____________________ 600.0______30 sec_______________________
*_________*______________________________________2.8A at tail_______ 583.8______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________580.0______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________579.2______3 min________________________
MaSha_1_______________SST-50 5A___________2 IMR 26500____________1000.8______1 sec_____828________20,700___
2C Mag 5~6A fully regulated____________________*________*____________ 933.1______30 sec_______________________
*_________*_______________________________________3.22A at tail______903.8______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________877.7______2 min________________________
_______________Huge Copper Heatsink_______________________________ 861.5______3 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________836.2______4 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________823.8______5 min________________________
MaSha_1_______________SST-50 5A___________2 DX C cells_____________984.6______1 sec_________________________
2C Mag 5~6A fully regulated____________________*________*____________ 904.6______30 sec_______________________
*_________*_______________________________________2.44A at tail_____ 881.5______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________850.0______2 min________________________
_______________Huge Copper Heatsink_______________________________ 839.2______3 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 817.7______4 min________________________
MaSha_1____________3 XP-G R5's DD__________1 IMR 26500___________1053.8______1 sec_________________________
1C Mag_____________________________________*________*____________ 457.7______30 sec________________________
*_________*_______________________________________5.19A at tail_____486.2______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________486.2______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________486.9______3 min_________________________
MaSha_1____________3 XP-G R5's DD__________1 DX C cell____________1008.5 ______1 sec_________________________
1C Mag_____________________________________*________*____________ 530.8______30 sec________________________
*_________*_______________________________________5A at tail________573.8______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________575.4______ 2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________568.5______ 3 min_________________________
Ti-force _______________SST-90 5A___________1 IMR 26650____________ 1076.9______1 sec_________________________
2D Mag Regulated at 5A______________________*________*______________797.7______30 sec________________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 784.6______ 1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________757.7______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________738.5______3 min________________________
Ti-force _______________XP-G R5 DD___________1 IMR 26650___________ 342.3_______1 sec________________________
2D Mag ___________________________________*________*______________329.2______ 30 sec________________________
*_________*_________________________________1.44A at tail___________ 326.2______ 1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________321.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________320.0______3 min________________________
Teralux TLE-300M-EX_________3 XR-E R2__________4D Alkalines___________608.5______1 sec________________________
4D Mag_____________________Drop-in__*_______*______________________ 522.3______30 sec_______________________
*_________*_______________________________________________________ 504.6______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 485.4______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 473.8______3 min________________________
Teralux TLE-5-EX____________ XR-E Q5___________2 AA Eneloops__________81..5______1 sec________________________
2AA Mini Mag________________Drop-in__*_______*_______________________ 80.8______30 sec_______________________
*_________*________________________________________________________79.2______1 min________________________
__________________________________________________________________72.3______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________________________70.0______3 min________________________
3C Mag____________________ P7 DD__________3 NiMH AA Tenergy________676.2______1 sec________________________
Assembled by Me_____________________*_______*______________________587.7______30 sec_______________________
*_________*_______________________________________________________555.4______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________522.3______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________521.5______3 min________________________
MacCustoms______________P7 2.8A driver_________AW C cell____________567.7______1 sec________________________
1D NascarFade____________________*________*_______________________ 534.6______30 sec_______________________
*_________*_____________________________________2.2A at tail________ 474.6______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________400.8______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________391.5______3 min________________________
MacCustoms______________P7 2.8A driver_________IMR 26500___________ 790.0______1 sec________________________
1D NascarFade____________________*________*_______________________ 635.4______30 sec_______________________
*_________*____________________________________3A at tail___________624.6______1 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 611.5______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 601.5______3 min________________________
Nailbender_________SST-50 DD w/D2flex_________1 IMR 26500__________ 986.9______1 sec_____956_______23,900____
1C Mag _____________________________*________*____________________ 979.2______30 sec_______________________
KD V3 Smooth Reflector__________________________4.55A at tail________ 880.0______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________848.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________823.8______3 min________________________
Nailbender_________MC-E Warm 2S2P____________2 IMR 26500__________ 566.9______1 sec_____694_______17,350____
2C Mag _____________1.4A driver_____________*________*______________ 560.0______30 sec_______________________
*_________*___________________________________1.33A at tail_________ 556.9______1 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 548.5______ 2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________545.4______3 min________________________
Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________1839.4_____ 1 sec____1,396_______34,900___
Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________1511.5_____23 sec________________________
3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________1479.4_____30 sec________________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 1417.4______1 min________________________
___________________Aluminum Version______________________________ 1346.3______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 1300.5______3 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 1282.4______4 min________________________
Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________2110.1______1 sec___1396_____34,900_______
3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________2061.9_____ 30 sec_______________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 1935.8______1 min________________________
___________________*COPPER Version*_______________________________ 1802.8______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 1754.6______3 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 1715.6______4 min________________________
Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________2362.4______1 sec________________________
3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________2087.2_____ 30 sec_______________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 1997.7______1 min________________________
__________________*COPPER Version*FRANKENLIGT*__________________ 1919.7______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 1857.8______3 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 1816.5______4 min________________________
Lambdalights___________SST-50____________3 NiMH C Tenergy__________ 818.5_____ 1 sec________________________
2D Mag _____________VARAPower1000_____________*________*__________741.5_____30 sec________________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 721.5______1 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 696.9______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 687.7______3 min________________________
Lambdalights___________SST-50___________3 NiMH C Accupower_________ 877.7_____ 1 sec_____1,203_______30,075__
2D Mag _____________VARAPower1000_____________*________*__________746.2_____30 sec________________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 720.8______1 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 665.4______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 629.2______3 min________________________
Lambdalights_______SST-50*DOME*_________3 NiMH C Tenergy__________1057.7_____ 1 sec_____899________22,475___
2D Mag _____________Direct Drive_____________*___________*__________901.5_____30 sec________________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 873.8______1 min________________________
________________________________________________4.23A at tail_____ 836.2______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 821.5______3 min________________________
Lambdalights_____SST-50*DOMELESS*_______3 NiMH C Tenergy__________ 785.4_____ 1 sec___2,300________57,500____
2D Mag _____________Direct Drive_____________*___________*__________684.6______30 sec________________________
*_________*______________________________________________________ 646.2______1 min_________________________
________________________________________________4V input_________ 634.6______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________ 629.2______3 min_________________________
2D LED Mag________Stock Rebel____________2 NiMH C Tenergy___________ 115.4______1 sec____80_________2,000____
__________________________________*________*______________________ 96.2_______30 sec_______________________
*_________*__Stock Deep Rebel Mag Reflector___________________________ 92.3_______1 min_______________________
_____________________________________________ 800mA at tail________ 86.9_______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 85.4_______3 min________________________
2cMag by PCC________2 K2 DD__________________5 NiMH 2/3A___________549.2______ 1 sec___1,118______27,950___
__________________________________*________*______________________ 461.5______ 30 sec______________________
*_________*__Stock Deep Rebel Mag Reflector___________________________ 446.9_______1 min_______________________
_____________________________________________ 1.1A at the tail_______ 429.2_______2 min_______________________
_________________________________________________________________ 424.6_______3 min______________________
Electrolumens 2D Blaster______MC-E DD__________3 NiMH C cells_________ 753.8______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 580.8______30 sec_______________________
*Stock aluminum heatsink*____________________________________________548.5______1 min________________________
____________________________________By PCC_______________________ 523.8______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 519.2______3 min________________________
 
Electrolumens 2D Blaster______MC-E DD__________3 NiMH C cells_________ 774.6______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 625.4______30 sec_______________________
*Huge Copper heatsink*______________________________________________613.8______1 min________________________
____________________________________By PCC_______________________ 605.4______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 606.2______3 min________________________














*___________Production & Limited Runs_______________________*
*Light_____________________LED_____________ Cells____________ Lumens____ Time___5m lux__1m lux (cal)__*
ArcMania_________________Ostar SMT__________1 AW 2600mAh_________ 405.0______1 sec____394______9,850_______
*SF III*_____________________*______________*_______________________ 368.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________362.3______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________352.3______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________343.8______3 min________________________
Damascus Naithawk_________XR-E R2__________CR123 Primary__________ 144.6______1 sec____62_______1,550_______
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 142.3______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________141.5______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________141.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________140.0______3 min________________________
Damascus Naithawk_________XR-E R2___________IMR 16340_____________202.3______1 sec____85_______2,125_______
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 200.8______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________196.9______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________189.9______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________186.9______3 min________________________
DEFT FTP_________________XR-E R2________4 AA NiMH Tenergy_________ 259.2______1 sec_____5,300______132,500___
_________________________*_*Lumens done w/no aspheric_______________ 240.0______30 sec_____lux w/Aspheric_______
*________*________________________________________________________235.4______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________224.6______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________223.1______3 min________________________
Download______________SST-50 2.8A___________IMR 18650_____________604.6______1 sec________________________
Thrustfire 18650 Hosts________*______________*______________________ 524.6______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________500.0______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________479.2______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________475.4______3 min________________________
EagleTac P100A2___________XP-E __________2 AA NiMH Tenergy__________176.9______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 54.6_______1 sec________________________
EagleTac P20A2___________XP-G R5_________2 AA NiMH Tenergy_________ 230.0______1 sec_____134______3,350_____
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 219.2______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________218.5______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________216.9______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________214.6______3 min________________________
EagleTac P100C2___________XP-E__________2 Ultrafire CR123____________200.8______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 191.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________190.0______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________188.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________186.9______3 min________________________
EagleTac T20C2___________XP-G R5_________1 AW 2600mAh____________ 318.5______1 sec_____626______15,650_____
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 287.7______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________283.8______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________280.0______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________277.7______3 min________________________
EagleTac T20C2___________XP-G R5_________2 IMR 16340______________ 316.2______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 286.9______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________282.3______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________281.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________276.2______3 min________________________
EagleTac P20C2___________XP-G R5_________1 AW 17670______________ 330.0______1 sec_____330________8,250___
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 311.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*_________Does the same lumens with 2 li-ons_________________ 306.9______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________302.3______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________300.0______3 min________________________
EagleTac P100A___________XR-E Q5_________1 AA NiMH Eneloop_________ 123.1______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 111.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________108.5______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________105.4______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________103.8______3 min________________________
EagleTac M2xC4__________3 XRE-R2_________2 AW 2600mAh___________ 652.3______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 603.8______30 sec_______________________
*________*___w/diffuser 1sec=546 lumens______________________________595.4______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________584.6______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________579.2______3 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________573.8______4 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________569.2______5 min________________________
Electrolumens EDC P7________P7 DD_________1 AW 2600mAh____________ 731.5______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 617.7______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________597.7______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________584.4______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________581.5______3 min________________________
Electrolumens EDC P7________P7 DD__________1 IMR 18650_____________ 793.1______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 613.8______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________604.6______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________589.2______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________582.3______3 min________________________
Electrolumens ____________XP-G____________1 AW 2600mAh____________297.7______1 sec____216________5,400_____
DaCree XP-G______________*______________*________________________ 275.4______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________275.4______1 min________________________
_________________________________________1.2A at tail______________ 271.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________269.2______3 min________________________
Electrolumens ____________XP-G____________1 AW 2600mAh____________302.3______1 sec____219________5,475_____
DaCree XP-G____________Arctic Silver 5__*____*________________________ 284.6______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________282.3______1 min________________________
_________________________________________1.2A at tail______________ 279.2______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________277.7______3 min________________________
Epsilon ED-P72____________P7_____________2 AW 2600mAh____________ 549.2______1 sec_____630______15,750_____
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 516.2______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________505.4______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________496.9______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________490.8______3 min________________________
Fenix TK40______________MC-E____________8 NiMH Eneloop____________ 570.8______1 sec_________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 552.3______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________543.8______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________542.3______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________553.1______3 min________________________
Fenix LD10______________XR-E Q5____________1AA NiMH Eneloop________115.4______1 sec_________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 106.2______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________103.8______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________101.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________100.8______3 min________________________
Fenix LD10______________XR-E Q5_____________1 AW 14500____________247.7______1 sec_________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 245.4______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________240.0______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________233.8______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________227.7______3 min________________________
Fenix LD01_______________XP-G____________1AAA NiMH Eneloop________ 96.9_______1 sec_________________________
Dandism installed an XP-G_______*______________*____________________ 91.5_______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________89.2_______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________87.7_______2 min________________________
Fenix MC10______________XR-E R2____________1AA NiMH Eneloop________124.6______1 sec________________________
Fenix MC10_w/diffuser____ XR-E R2____________1AA NiMH Eneloop________109.2______1 sec________________________ 
Leggion II _______________SST-50_______________3 18650_____________ 645.4______1 sec_________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 546.9______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________535.4______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________530.8______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________523.1______3 min________________________
LiteFlux LF3xT___________XP-G R5____________1 CR123 Primary__________238.5______1 sec_________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 186.9______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________186.9______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________186.9______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________186.9______3 min________________________
LiteFlux LF3xT___________XP-G R5____________1 IMR 16340_____________257.7 ______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 230.0______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________223.8______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________218.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________214.6______3 min________________________
LiteFlux LF2xT___________XR-E R2______________1 AAA Alkaline_________ 56.2_______ 1 sec________________________
LiteFlux LF2xT___________XR-E R2_______________1 AAA li-on___________133.1_______1 sec________________________
*LensBright CR123 Mini___XR-E R2____Wide____Surefire CR123_______164.6______1 sec_____________________*
*LensBright CR123 Mini___XR-E R2___Focused__ Surefire CR123_______89.2_______1 sec_____________________*
LumaPower Signature_______SST-50__________1 AW 2600mAh____________329.2______1 sec____241__________6,025___
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 300.8______30 sec_______________________
*________*____________Turbo Bezel__________________________________ 292.3______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________289.2______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________281.5______3 min________________________
LumaPower Signature_______SST-50__________1 AW 2600mAh____________328.5______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 302.3______30 sec_______________________
*________*____________Small Bezel__________________________________ 296.9______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________290.8______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________286.9______3 min________________________
Malkoff WildCat Tripple_____3 XP-G_____________3 CR123 Primaries_______792.3______1 sec____487__________12,175__
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 762.3______30 sec_______________________
*________*__________________________________1A at tail______________ 758.5______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________750.0______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________744.6______3 min________________________
Malkoff WildCat Tripple_____3 XP-G______________2 AW 17500___________769.2______1 sec_________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 741.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*_________________________________1.22A at tail_____________747.7______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________741.5______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________735.4______3 min________________________
Malkoff WildCat Quad_____4 XR-E WARM_________2 AW 18500___________ 495.4______1 sec_________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 494.6______30 sec_______________________
*________*________________________________________________________493.1______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________489.2______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________486.9______3 min________________________
Malkoff Hound Dog________XP-G @1.5A______4 CR123 Primaries__________ 362.3______1 sec_______________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 321.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*____521mA at the tail_____________________________________ 319.2______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________317.7______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________315.4______3 min________________________
Malkoff Hound Dog________XP-G @1.5A_________2 IMR 18650____________ 362.3______1 sec____800_______20,000____
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 321.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*____680mA at the tail_____________________________________ 319.2______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________316.9______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________314.6______3 min________________________
Microfire Aspheric_____Golden Dragon_________2 Surefire CR123___________98.5______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*________________________94.6______30 sec_______________________
*________*______Focused for throw____________________________________93.1______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 90.8______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 90.8______3 min________________________
Microfire Aspheric_____Golden Dragon_________2 Surefire CR123___________163.1______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*________________________159.2______30 sec_______________________
*________*______Wide not focused____________________________________152.8______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 152.3______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________ 152.3______3 min________________________
VB-16 M9_____________MC-E_________________2 IMR 18650_____________570.8______1 sec____671_______16,675_____
1.45A at the tail_______________*______________*_____________________553.1______30 sec_______________________
*_____________________*__________________________________________546.9______1 min________________________
A Mag UCL lens fits=22~25 more lumens_______________________________543.8______ 2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________540.8______ 3 min________________________
VB-16 R2____________XR-E R2______________1 AW 2600mAh____________ 250.0______1 sec____485_______12,125_____
1.2A at the tail_______________*______________*______________________243.8______30 sec_______________________
*_____________________*__________________________________________239.2______1 min________________________
100% identical OTF lumens with 2 IMR 16340's__________________________236.2______ 2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________233.1______ 3 min________________________
VB-16 M16____________XR-E R2______________2 CR123 Primaries________ 288.5______1 sec____152________3,800_____
1.25A at the tail_______________*______________*_____________________260.8______30 sec_______________________
*_____________________*__________________________________________254.6______1 min________________________
small 20mm bezel__________________________________________________251.5______ 2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________250.0______ 3 min________________________


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

And a new era begins...

Thanks!


----------



## MrGman

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Congrats big C. I believe you can use a larger font to make it easier to read. Its going to be a lot of tiny text in the long run otherwise. Can't wait to see the readings on the new Malkoff M61. I am now 2K miles east of where I was.


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



MrGman said:


> Congrats big C. I believe you can use a larger font to make it easier to read. Its going to be a lot of tiny text in the long run otherwise. Can't wait to see the readings on the new Malkoff M61. I am now 2K miles east of where I was.



sorry to see you go, G. You won't be forgotten!

Thank you for getting our successor set up!


----------



## icaruz

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Congrats BigC for your new toy. BTW why is it the reading for Anto XP-G is lower on your IS compare to the readings taken by MrG. also the triple P7 is not that powerful after all.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



icaruz said:


> Congrats BigC for your new toy. BTW why is it the reading for Anto XP-G is lower on your IS compare to the readings taken by MrG. also the triple P7 is not that powerful after all.


 

MrGman tested another identical build Tripple P7 at the SJ, CA meet and greet and it made 1150ish OTF at 10 or 30 seconds too and made by ModaMag I believe. So, my OTF for the Electrolumens is IMHO perfect considering the current at the tail was 1.8A when it could have been much higher. The LED ZEP 3 P7 drop-in for my M6 that read 1700 OTF was getting 30 or so watts, while this Electrolumens is barely at 20 watts.

My readings are just a bit low for that Anto P60 drop-in one, but all else should be spot on. MrGman helped me measure this drop-in in my 10.5in Sphere and if you see at 1~2 mintues the OTF numbers actually went up again.

The Thrunite P60 drop-in makes 220ish OTF in a another hosts, but in the C3 it performs poorly. My guess is no UCL lens, but still not even close to 260 OTF like the another sample tested.


----------



## Nitroz

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*


----------



## MrGman

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



icaruz said:


> Congrats BigC for your new toy. BTW why is it the reading for Anto XP-G is lower on your IS compare to the readings taken by MrG. also the triple P7 is not that powerful after all.


 
That IMR battery was acting funky when we took his readings. You will notice that the reading actually comes up for the 1 minute mark. This was not a mistake or typo in the recording of the data. It came up. I don't know if we used the same battery or what I did that was different at the time when I took my readings. But I trust his sphere readings.

My Thrunite XP-G has been rather disappointing in total output. I haven't gotten it to go any where near the readings of Csshih. I can't help but wonder if his was a hand picked unit but without testing several side by side at the same time it would be hard to say.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



csshih said:


> sorry to see you go, G. You won't be forgotten!
> 
> Thank you for getting our successor set up!


 


Hi Craig,


I know you have a bunch of items for me to test and expand my list

PM me when you will have time to schedule a pick up.


----------



## Mjolnir

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

With fully charged cells, I am measuring about 4.4 volts at the tail. Did you not charge your cells fully? 
Also, is the 3853L really brighter than the 3854L? That doesn't really make sense, I would think it would be the other way around. 

These are OTF lumens, right? What reflectors were you using for the maglite mods?


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I'm very interested in the 1C\2C SST-50 mags. Shame about the incandescent's low output and quick drop. I had a passing thought yesterday that it would be cool to sell my DBS\SST-50 and build a bigger, better, higher output setup with either a SST-50\90 LED or a really high power incandescent for 20 minutes of awesome lumens. Given past history, 'passing thoughts' turn into a marketplace listing in about a week and a half, so I'll have time to wait for the SST-50 mag results.

And if you still have a raw spreadsheet form, you might consider saving it to google docs (very easy and fast) and putting a link in the OP; it would really help as readers could sort the lists and find stuff more easily, especially as the list grows.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Josh did you send your Deree VBS sst-50 in for testing? I might be interested in it depending on the #'s 

Is it a different tool that tests lumens and lux?


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I haven't yet, it's hard to convince myself to get rid of it for 4+ days unless I know a new flashlight is on the way. Hopefully I can send it in next week before the urge to sell and upgrade is too strong, but I always procrastinate PMing big C 

Lumens are overall brightness (essentially the number of photons coming out of the front end of the light). Lux is a measure of how intense the hotspot is (i.e. how far it will throw). Big hotspot + high lumens = low lux. Small hotspot + high lumens = high lux.


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Great job Jose...
Hope the mods sticky this one too.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Mjolnir said:


> With fully charged cells, I am measuring about 4.4 volts at the tail. Did you not charge your cells fully?
> Also, is the 3853L really brighter than the 3854L? That doesn't really make sense, I would think it would be the other way around.
> 
> These are OTF lumens, right? What reflectors were you using for the maglite mods?


 
They were all topped off...

With 4.33A vs. your 4.4A it is not much different, wouldn't you agree? (in regards to 3854 H right) Now, if you got that with the 3853 H then I may have to redo it with new batteries or a new bulb.

That is why some ROP's were tested with 26650's and some with my IMR 18650's. 

I know what you mean about the 3854L vs. 3853L, the 54L had more current yet less OTF I used a KD V3 reflector for all the tests, except the WA1185 had a metal OP reflector.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hi all,

I finally tested the first ever 2C Mag with a regulated 5~6A driver made by Ma_Sha1. I managed to fit 2 of my IMR C AW 26500 cells in it:thumbsup:

Over 900 lumens at turn-on aka 1 second.



Edit: The IMR C cells wer not topped off. They are charging and when they hit 4.21V I will re-test the SST-50. At least the DX C li-on cells are delivering the juice at 2.5A~2.8A....


EDIT #2.

I finally got the IMR C cells at 4.21v each and my tail cap current was 3.22A. The OTF lumens are 1000.8 Out the front. Even at 1 minute I still get over 900 OTF lumens. It does get toasty at 5 minutes as I expected.


----------



## ma_sha1

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Big C., Congrats for being the new owner of the 10.5in Sphere! 
I am glad that I didn't disappoint you, Yeah!!!, over 1000 OTF LED Lumens to top your charts. 
It's very close to Mag 1185 out put based on your numbers, same as what I observed & it rivals the throw of mag1185 as well. 

I like the compact form of C mag, as the D mag tube is a bit too thick for my hand. I am going to make a Quad XPG on Mag C next, going to try out the 4x LXP optics which I heard good things about. 

Maybe you can ask dcaprilia who bought my 7xXPG mag 2C (Driven to 1 Amp by Blue Shark) to borrow for a test? I believe it is still the brightest LED flashlight even made on Mag C: 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/251539

I think it may give you >1700 OTF lumens, possibly beat your 3xP7 on M6, I am not sure but certainly would like to see. It looked to me about 2x as bright as this SSR-50 on 2C/5-6A, but eyes can be deceiving sometimes.

I need to get a better AMP meter, would you mind to tell me what model of your meter is? IS it a clamp style?


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I used a Fluke meter that my cousin has now, but I replaced it with one from Lowes. The one from Lowes is called "Ideal 61-340". My cousing said the Fluke was a couple hundred bucks some years ago and since I had both meters for at least a month at the same time I did do many current readings and both meters gave me identical numbers. The Lowes Ideal brand is $65ish with CA tax so very inexpensive, but not clamp meter.

In fact; my cousing is a Snap-on tool maniac and he said the Fluke he had was more consistant than the Snap on brand one. I showed him the Ideal one from Lowes and he couldn't believe how dead on the readings were; especially considering the inexpensive price.:twothumbs


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hey Mods! Why isn't this thread a sticky?


----------



## Mjolnir

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> They were all topped off...
> 
> With 4.33A vs. your 4.4A it is not much different, wouldn't you agree? (in regards to 3854 H right) Now, if you got that with the 3853 H then I may have to redo it with new batteries or a new bulb.
> 
> That is why some ROP's were tested with 26650's and some with my IMR 18650's.
> 
> I know what you mean about the 3854L vs. 3853L, the 54L had more current yet less OTF I used a KD V3 reflector for all the tests, except the WA1185 had a metal OP reflector.
> 
> bigC



Is that KD reflector one with a 16mm opening or an 8.3 mm opening? If it is the larger one, then it would obviously lose some lumens that would be going out the front in a different reflector with a smaller hole.
Sorry for all of the questions, and thanks allowing us to finally determine the actual output of the ROP.
I don't see why you are disappointed with these; IMO 500+ OTF lumens from an incandescent light is plenty, especially with a nice full spectrum and good color rendering.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Mjolnir said:


> Is that KD reflector one with a 16mm opening or an 8.3 mm opening? If it is the larger one, then it would obviously lose some lumens that would be going out the front in a different reflector with a smaller hole.
> Sorry for all of the questions, and thanks allowing us to finally determine the actual output of the ROP.
> I don't see why you are disappointed with these; IMO 500+ OTF lumens from an incandescent light is plenty, especially with a nice full spectrum and good color rendering.


 

It is the one with the 15mm opening. I did have the fivemega 2in Deep, but no longer....

I will have to re-test those in the next month with a appropriate reflector and only IMR C cells


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hi all,

I just got to test this KL4 Surefire bezel fitted with a P7 by DarkZero. The P7 is direct drive and the current was in fact 2.5A at the tail with an IMR 16340. The body was a vital gear single cell hosts.

I really didn't expect anything above 350 OTF lumens considering even the Malkoff Drop-in P7 DD P60's hesitated to hit this number and only hit 380 with a IMR 18650....Well without further due here are the OTF lumens:

*Surefire KL4 w/ P7 DD___________Mod by DarkZero on KL4 bezel_____1 IMR 16340 w/2.5A_______________ 484.6____________1 sec*
Surefire KL4 w/ P7 DD____________ Mod by DarkZero on KL4 bezel_______1 IMR 16340 w/2.5A________________ 419.2____________30 sec
Surefire KL4 w/ P7 DD____________ Mod by DarkZero on KL4 bezel_______1 IMR 16340 w/2.5A________________ 393.8____________1 min
Surefire KL4 w/ P7 DD____________ Mod by DarkZero on KL4 bezel_______1 IMR 16340 w/2.5A________________ 378.5____________2 min
Surefire KL4 w/ P7 DD____________ Mod by DarkZero on KL4 bezel_______1 IMR 16340 w/2.5A________________ 366.2____________3 min

The bezel is the one talked about here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/210710



EDIT: I finally tested a WA1185 w/ 3 IMR 16340 cells......Surefire M3.


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/260325

Test this. NOW.



> Triple-XPG R5 Direct Drive ~1400 lumen - $144
> High performance drop-in for P60/D26 applications


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



joshconsulting said:


> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/260325
> 
> Test this. NOW.


 

I would love to. The last R2 version did 560 OTF, considering how much more efficient is it logical to assume 700 OTF from the XP-G variant????


I think 700 OTF is possible, but that would be an insult if it did 700 or 800 considering it is sold as 1400 emitter lumens.

Still;
If anyone wants to test their drop-in I am very interested.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


----------



## ma_sha1

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Big C,

I got in touch with the buyer of my 7 XPG Mag2C, he is interested in sending this light to you to test OTF lumens. (7 XPG driven to 1AMP by Blue Shark). https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/251539

I believe this is the brightest LED light on Mag C. It doesn't throw as far as the SSR-50, but it looked to me about 1.5-2x the OTF lumens over the SSR-50/5Amp light, so I think it's going to be >1500 OTF at least.
I'd love to see it run & tested on 3x AW IMR123, as I sold the light with 3x RCR18350 in there for longer run time, 
I think the IMR 123s are necessary to unleash the full lumen potential of this light. 

Are you interested in testing it & sending back to his friend in US? (He is not in the US). 

If yes, could you give me the address to ship to *or PM him and arrange shipping directly with him* (CPF Handle *dcaprilia*)? Could you let me know what's the the testing turn-around time? (The time in your hands), He would like to be turned around ASAP. 

I am willing to cover your return postage & insurance to get the light shipped back to his friends.


Thanks

Ma


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Do you have any SureFire Turbohead lamp assemblies to test? Or any Lumens Factory TH lamps for SureFire?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## Moddoo

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I would love to. The last R2 version did 560 OTF, considering how much more efficient is it logical to assume 700 OTF from the XP-G variant????
> 
> 
> I think 700 OTF is possible, but that would be an insult if it did 700 or 800 considering it is sold as 1400 emitter lumens.
> 
> Still;
> If anyone wants to test their drop-in I am very interested.:thumbsup::thumbsup:



Using some rough numbers, I think these should maintain over 1000 OTF for a few minutes.
This is multiplying in the 88.7% optic efficiency, and 90% for 60C Junction temp. (- glass transmission??)

But, hey, we can guess all day long, and it doesn't mean squat really.

I'll send you one sometime soon.

Currently planning on building my own sphere.
I'll need a bit of advice, so that we can ensure mine is accurate.

Thanks for keeping the testing going.
I like the layout of the thread so far also.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Do you have any SureFire Turbohead lamp assemblies to test? Or any Lumens Factory TH lamps for SureFire?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


 

I used to have a KT4 with pretty much all the Surefire bulbs, but not anymore.

My KT-1 also is no longer with me, but it was fiitted with a IMR700 lamp for added throw IMHO at least. 

My buddy has the D36 Surefire M3 bezel, so technically I can put some surefire lamps in that right????

I also have a TLS M body with 18650 extentions to run those Surefire Lamps with eighter AW 2600mAh cells or IMR 18650 cells, but I have noticed the shock isolation ring takes up 15~20% of the lumens. I think it is a combination of the shock isolation and the lack of UCL lens in those stock KT4 and M bezels from Surefire.

We saw this again while testig Kramer5151 P60 drop-ins in his Surefire M2, I warned him it would happen and sure enough it did. We actually measure his drop-in then swap on a Solarforce bezel w/UCL lens and SS flat ring and we get 20% more OTF lumens.


EDIT: For this reason alone I think the best bezel to test Surefire Lamps is the KT-1 or KT-2 because they don't have that shock isolation...Then I would have to figure out a way to put a UCL lens or what that be cheating...


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Cheating. I'm surprised at the few people who use UCLs. It's like moving up an entire binning in brightness.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



joshconsulting said:


> Cheating. I'm surprised at the few people who use UCLs. It's like moving up an entire binning in brightness.


 
The reason I say cheating is because to put a UCL lens in a KT-4 or M size bezel is a lot more difficult then if you did it to a Solaforce or 6P bezel. I think the average person will not go through all the trouble, but then again this is Candlepowerforum


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I have a 1C Mag made by Nailbender with an SST-50 direct drive and a D2flex switch installed. The switch was my attemp to regulate the current.


I used a DX C un-protected cell and got great results...., but I know the IMR C cell can deliver more juice. When I put a IMR C cell at 4.21V ( topped off) the color of the beam goes from normal vanilla/green to BLUE. I don't want to kill my LED, but I want to test the SST-50 on high mode with IMR C cell.

My solution is to test a depleted IMR C cell. I can however test the SST-50 1C Mag on the 2nd from highest mode and no blue tint. Here are my results with a topped off IMR C cell and 2nd level.

725ish turn-on and 632 at 3 minutes. Not bad considering it is not the highest mode.


EDIT: Well; I did the SST-50 1C Mag on high with IMR C cell at 4.10V and you can see my list for the OTF #s...


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Spent some time at Joses place last night... showing him some DIY tricks and measuring some of my lights. Hopefully he'll get off the couch and upload the Lumen data... LOL

Pics of us modding his TLS M-series beast.






Measuring some of my lights. I think many of you will find this data very useful, since none of these lights are modded in any way. I did not use IMR cells either, except for the SF-A2, where we measured output with both IMR and Ultrafire blue cells.






Noteworthy performances (from my memory):

SF-A2-INCAN = ~90 Lumens after 3 minutes, output did not significantly change with IMR-16340 cells. Rock Solid regulation, on par with any LED and under-rated by SF.

SF-E2L-Outdorsman (KX2 Dual-mode head) = ~100 Lumens after 3 minutes. Solid regulation and under-rated by Surefire.

ITP-A3-EOS = This little bugger was a big surprise. It maintained ~75L after 3 minutes.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

The Aviator is in post #2 as it is mostly incan.

The Surefire Outdoorsmand is in post #1. 


I will re-test the ROP's with an OP reflector that has an opening about half the size of the KD v3 15mm one. It is soo small that the ROP bulbs barely fit..just barely. I will use topped off IMR 26650's since they provide the most current and double check the voltage and current every time.:thumbsup:


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> The Aviator is in post #2 as it is mostly incan.
> 
> The Surefire Outdoorsmand is in post #1.
> 
> 
> I will re-test the ROP's with an OP reflector that has an opening about half the size of the KD v3 15mm one. It is soo small that the ROP bulbs barely fit..just barely. I will use topped off IMR 26650's since they provide the most current and double check the voltage and current every time.:thumbsup:


 
I notice you tested a Javelin (a personal fav.) with an MC-E drop in. Did you do anything special to heat sink it? Any chance I could get you to run a test with 2 X L91's? That's what I use.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



recDNA said:


> I notice you tested a Javelin (a personal fav.) with an MC-E drop in. Did you do anything special to heat sink it? Any chance I could get you to run a test with 2 X L91's? That's what I use.


 

I tested 2 different DX P60 MC-E drop-ins. Both are the 3 mode ones and both make 350ish OTF with a IMR 18650.

But,

One makes 50ish more lumens with a Javelin and 3 NiMH AA cell vs. the other sample. I labeled them #1 and #2 to show they are completely different drop-ins. I just put cooper tape ( alot) around the drop-in till it fits snug. I dont have L91 cells?

The DX drop-ins are good up to 4.2V, but topped off AA NiMH are about 1.45V under no load.

Jose


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

3854 Low updates:

When I first tested the ROP 3854L it was with 2 IMR 18650 and while the current was identical I got more lumens out the front with the bigger IMR 26650. I used a 8mm (really small hole) MOP reflector for the IMR 26650 tests. For the IMR 18650 tests I used a KD V3 15mm reflector.




*2C Mag w/ROP__________ROP 3854L _________2 IMR 18650 AW cells w/2.08A__234.6____1 sec*
2C Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854L ___________2 IMR 18650 AW cells w/2.08A_____220.0_____30 sec
2C Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854L ___________2 IMR 18650 AW cells w/2.08A_____216.9_____1 min
2C Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854L ___________2 IMR 18650 AW cells w/2.08A_____213.8_____2 min
2C Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854L ___________2 IMR 18650 AW cells w/2.08A_____211.5_____3 min
*2C Mag w/ROP__________ROP 3854L _________2 IMR 26650 w/2A____________296.2____1 sec*
2C Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854L ___________2 IMR 26650 w/ 2A_______________272.3_____30 sec
2C Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854L ___________2 IMR 26650 w/ 2A_______________267.7_____1 min
2C Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854L ___________2 IMR 26650 w/ 2A_______________261.5_____2 min
2C Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854L ___________2 IMR 26650 w/ 2A_______________261.5_____3 min

I re-tested the WA1185 with topped off IMR C 26500 cells. Each cell was at 4.22v each and I got 3.6A at the tail. After 3 minute run I checked the current and it was 3.3A.

*2D Mag w/bi-pin kit_____WA1185__________3 IMR 26500 AW cells drained a bit __1080____1 sec
*2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________3 IMR 26500 AW cells_____________1175.4_______30 sec
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________3 IMR 26500 AW cells_____________1145.4_______1 min
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________3 IMR 26500 AW cells_____________1113.1_______2 min
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________3 IMR 26500 AW cells_____________1085.4_______3 min
*2D Mag w/bi-pin kit_____WA1185__________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell __1246.2_____ 1 sec*
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185___________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell______1007.7______30 sec
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185___________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell______973.1_______1 min
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185___________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell______953.1_______2 min
2D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185___________3 IMR 26500 3.6A & topped off cell______922.3_______3 min



Regards,
bigC


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I tested 2 different DX P60 MC-E drop-ins. Both are the 3 mode ones and both make 350ish OTF with a IMR 18650.
> 
> But,
> 
> One makes 50ish more lumens with a Javelin and 3 NiMH AA cell vs. the other sample. I labeled them #1 and #2 to show they are completely different drop-ins. I just put cooper tape ( alot) around the drop-in till it fits snug. I dont have L91 cells?
> 
> The DX drop-ins are good up to 4.2V, but topped off AA NiMH are about 1.45V under no load.
> 
> Jose


 
I may have used the wrong item number. I was referring to the 1.7 volt Energizer Ultra Lithium AA primaries. I figure I can get almost the voltage from two batteries that you get from 3 ( I forgot you're using more powerful rechargeable batteries than Eneloops). The Javelin is a little long with three batteries. Whatever the output is I'm thrilled with it with my Dereelight XP-G drop in.

I'll have to get some copper tape if I try an MC-E. I never thought it would be possible to run an MC-E with fewer than 4 AA's.


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Any chance of getting a Quark MiNi with a 123 and RCR123 in there? From my calculations, it should make 236 OTF with an RCR, handily beating the Rosimen. I'm trying to convince myself to switch from my K-106 to the Quark, but I love the GITD switch and reflector on the K-106, and the memory mode is awesome - I virtually never use anything but high, so the quark's turning on low is a big disadvantage. Plus, I already have several 14500 batteries. The only advantage is that the Quark is slightly smaller, but I'm not sure that's worth the loss of instant high, halved battery life, and an extra $50 for a light + batteries. Even with the short battery life, it has roughly equal output to the K-106. I just can't see myself leaving a $12 light that I never worry about losing. It's perfect in every way.

Someday when the warm XP-Gs come out, it might convince me to switch over. The warm color of my (soon to be shipped out) DBS\SST-50 had noticeably better CRI then my K-106, and made it look slightly blue in comparison.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I don't have the Quarks anymore and I think Craig might have sent them back already too.


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

It should be noted that the module used in this 3AA javelin host setup....


Javelin w/ DX MC-E drop-in______ P60 DX MC-E 3 mode #2________ 3 NiMH Tenergy AA cells _____________ 443.1____________1 sec
Javelin w/ DX MC-E drop-in________ P60 DX MC-E 3 mode #2_________ 3 NiMH Tenergy AA cells ______________ 403.8____________30 sec
Javelin w/ DX MC-E drop-in________ P60 DX MC-E 3 mode #2_________ 3 NiMH Tenergy AA cells ______________ 371.5____________1 min
Javelin w/ DX MC-E drop-in________ P60 DX MC-E 3 mode #2_________ 3 NiMH Tenergy AA cells ______________ 357.7____________2 min
Javelin w/ DX MC-E drop-in________ P60 DX MC-E 3 mode #2_________ 3 NiMH Tenergy AA cells ______________ 344.6____________3 min

Came from a DX SKU:18857, which specs a M-WC BIN. This SKU # uses a different BIN than the bare MCE module by itself.

Thanks BC for the clarification.


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I don't have the Quarks anymore and I think Craig might have sent them back already too.


no.. not yet :naughty:

up for some testing of some xp-g eagletacs? (still waiting for them to arrive)

WOW! that's allot added to the thread since I last looked. :thumbsup:


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hey BC....
What did we measure OTF for the ITP-A3-EOS / Duraloop AAA?

I thought it was ~80 Lumens.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I forgot to post that one...


*ITP A3 EOS_____________________XP-E_________________________ 1 AAA Duraloop NiMH_____________________ 80.0____________1 sec*
ITP A3 EOS_____________________XP-E_________________________ 1 AAA Duraloop NiMH_______________________75.4____________30 sec
ITP A3 EOS_____________________XP-E_________________________ 1 AAA Duraloop NiMH_______________________73.1____________1 min
ITP A3 EOS_____________________XP-E_________________________ 1 AAA Duraloop NiMH_______________________70.8____________2 min
ITP A3 EOS_____________________XP-E_________________________ 1 AAA Duraloop NiMH_______________________70.0____________3 min
*ITP A3 EOS_____________________XP-E________Med Mode_______ 1 AAA Duraloop NiMH_______________________19.2____________1 sec*
*ITP A3 EOS_____________________XP-E________Low Mode_______ 1 AAA Duraloop NiMH_______________________1.5_____________1 sec*


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hi all,


I just got on loan from Craig the Xtar TZ-50. It is a fully regulated SST-50 with a 2.5A driver. It doesn't have a UCL lens and if you have one of these expect at least 20 more OTF if you add one.

Here is the original thread on this light in the market place:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=211427


Here are my results for that one:
*Name of light__________________LED Type ________________Batteries ________________Lumens __________ Time*
Xstar TZ-50_________________________SST-50 w/2.5A driver____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650 w/1.31A____________ 463.8_________________1 sec
Xstar TZ-50_________________________SST-50 w/2.5A driver____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650 w/1.31A____________ 384.6_________________30 sec
Xstar TZ-50_________________________SST-50 w/2.5A driver____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650 w/1.31A____________ 378.5_________________1 min
Xstar TZ-50_________________________SST-50 w/2.5A driver____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650 w/1.31A____________ 370.8_________________2 min
Xstar TZ-50_________________________SST-50 w/2.5A driver____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650 w/1.31A____________ 363.1_________________3 min
Xstar TZ-50_________________________SST-50 w/2.5A driver____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650 w/1.31A____________ 363.1_________________4 min


----------



## sfca

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



csshih said:


> up for some testing of some xp-g eagletacs? (still waiting for them to arrive)



+1 on that!
And one of Anto's R5 drop-ins.

With this SST-50 w/ 2.8A driver in DBS bezel, turn-on lumens will be the same as a P60 correct?

I'm sure lumens will not change but lux will. And the greater heatsinking means less loss of output.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Looking forward to the TK40 results. Is it still coming soon (with 8aa, not 6aa, right?)?


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



was.lost.but.now.found said:


> Looking forward to the TK40 results. Is it still coming soon (with 8aa, not 6aa, right?)?


 


I think it uses 6 AA


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I think it uses 6 AA


 
Are you thinking of the ITP A6 Polestar? The TK40 most definitely uses 8aa, with an option for only 4.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Update.


I just tested the DEFT FTP. My IS Sphere couldn't fit the bezel with the aspheric lens, so I took the readings without it. This new model was designed to be used that way so its okay.

Here are the numbers:
*DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric_____________ 4 Eneloop Pack______________________ 259.2________________ 1 sec
*DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric______________ 4 Eneloop Pack_______________________ 240.0________________ 30 sec
DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric______________ 4 Eneloop Pack_______________________ 235.4________________ 1 min
DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric______________ 4 Eneloop Pack_______________________ 224.6________________ 2 min
DEFT FTP___________________________R2 w/ No Aspheric______________ 4 Eneloop Pack_______________________ 223.1________________ 3 min


----------



## rookiedaddy

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> *EagleTac T20C2________________________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________ 318.5________________ 1 sec*
> EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________287.7________________ 30 sec
> EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________283.8________________ 1 min
> EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________280.0________________ 2 min
> *EagleTac P20C2________________________XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________330.0________________ 1 sec*
> EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________ 310.8________________ 30 sec
> EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________ 307.7________________ 1 min
> EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________ 303.1________________ 2 min
> EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________ 299.2________________ 3 min


bigchelis, if you run T20C2 MKII on 2 IMR 16340, will the output be same with P20C2 MKII?


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

If you have the batteries I'd love to see both Eagletacs with IMR 18650 and 2 x IMR 16340 and 2 x Rcr 123


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

The EagleTac P20C2, which I tested with 2 IMR 16340 cells will not fit the 18650 cells at all. It does fit AW 17670 cells, so I will do a runtime with that one.

The EagleTac T20C2 I tested with a single 18650 I can re-test with 2 CR123 IMR 16340's. 

The great news is I can confirm that all the EagleTacs have some type of UCL lens included. Maybe thats why the lumens are soo great.


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

nice! make sure to mark the eagletacs as the MK II models 

.. hmm, try the T20C2 with 123s, also?


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> The EagleTac P20C2, which I tested with 2 IMR 16340 cells will not fit the 18650 cells at all. It does fit AW 17670 cells, so I will do a runtime with that one.
> 
> The EagleTac T20C2 I tested with a single 18650 I can re-test with 2 CR123 IMR 16340's.
> 
> The great news is I can confirm that all the EagleTacs have some type of UCL lens included. Maybe thats why the lumens are soo great.


 

I also wondered if there is any output difference between AW 18650 2600 (which you tested in the T20C2) vs AW IMR 18650. I thought the IMR might provide higher output but obviously far less runtime. I'm even curious how it runs on 2 ordinary CR123a primaries. I know it's a lot to ask but if you have the time the results may be illuminating.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I took readings on the EagleTac XP-G models with the AW 17670 on the P20C2 and 2 IMR 16340 cells for the T20C2. Not much change at all and the lumens stay about the same.

*Name of light__________________LED Type ________________Batteries ________________Lumens __________ Time*
*EagleTac T20C2_________MKII___________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________ 318.5________________ 1 sec*
EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________287.7________________ 30 sec
EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________283.8________________ 1 min
EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________280.0________________ 2 min
EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________1 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________277.7________________ 3 min
*EagleTac T20C2_________MKII___________XP-G R5___________________2 IMR 16340 __________________________ 316.2________________ 1 sec*
EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________2 IMR 16340___________________________ 286.9________________ 30 sec
EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________2 IMR 16340___________________________ 282.3________________ 1 min
EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________2 IMR 16340___________________________ 281.5________________ 2 min
EagleTac T20C2_________________________XP-G R5___________________2 IMR 16340___________________________ 276.2________________ 3 min

*EagleTac P20C2_________MKII___________XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________330.0________________ 1 sec*
EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________ 310.8________________ 30 sec
EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________ 307.7________________ 1 min
EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________ 303.1________________ 2 min
EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5_____________________2 IMR 16340 ________________________ 299.2________________ 3 min
*EagleTac P20C2_________MKII___________XP-G R5________________1 AW 1600mAh 17670 ____________________330.0________________ 1 sec*
EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5________________ 1 AW 1600mAh 17670 ____________________ 311.5________________ 30 sec
EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5________________ 1 AW 1600mAh 17670_____________________ 306.9________________ 1 min
EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5________________ 1 AW 1600mAh 17670 ____________________ 302.3________________ 2 min
EagleTac P20C2________________________ XP-G R5________________ 1 AW 1600mAh 17670 ____________________ 300.0________________ 3 min


----------



## rookiedaddy

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

wow... thanks bigchelis. looks like this P20C2 is being driven harder than the T20C2. Wonder if EagleTac will chime-in on what's going on here since both is advertised to use the same C1200 III driver.


----------



## [email protected]

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



rookiedaddy said:


> wow... thanks bigchelis. looks like this P20C2 is being driven harder than the T20C2. Wonder if EagleTac will chime-in on what's going on here since both is advertised to use the same C1200 III driver.



Both models should be the same. I'm just guessing - but it might be a variance in quality from Cree.


----------



## MrGman

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Yeah, this is a less than 5% variance on a sample base comparison of one model each. I tested two Thrunite drop in modules and one was over 300 and the other around 220 lumens, course the one I "bought" was the lower output one. :mecry:. So I wouldn't get to excited about this. Test 10 samples of each and then see how the fall out goes for more of a reality check.


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Thanks! I appreciate the extra effort. Very surprising info. You may want to edit your P20 data. You posted P20C2 with 18650 but I think you meant 17670 right?


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



recDNA said:


> Thanks! I appreciate the extra effort. Very surprising info. You may want to edit your P20 data. You posted P20C2 with 18650 but I think you meant 17670 right?


 


That is correct. Thank you.


----------



## daimleramg

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hey Big C,

Have you received the sample from moddoo yet? I have received mine and it is very bright. The only way I can test this is when I use the ceiling bounce technique with the triple XPG R5 and my Wolf-Eyes Storm R2, the room is brighter with the triple XPG R5. But very very floody even with my clear narrow optics, my Storm has a small pronounced hotspot and generous amounts of flood.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



daimleramg said:


> Hey Big C,
> 
> Have you received the sample from moddoo yet? I have received mine and it is very bright. The only way I can test this is when I use the ceiling bounce technique with the triple XPG R5 and my Wolf-Eyes Storm R2, the room is brighter with the triple XPG R5. But very very floody even with my clear narrow optics, my Storm has a small pronounced hotspot and generous amounts of flood.


 
I have not received the Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 yet:shrug:

I do have to test the:

 Anto P60 XP-G R5 drop-in
Dereelight P60 MC-E with 2.5A driver
Dereelight P60 MC-E with 2.1A driver
Solarforce Masterpiece and a couple others.


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

thank you for the new results! 

the lummi wee SS is rated to 50 lumens


----------



## psychbeat

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

NB D-36 SST50 in 26650fivemega!!

Im going to get one this week either way but
am curious if anyone is sending you one.
sorry if its been done already- didnt see it.
thanks!!


----------



## MrGman

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

My new Anto XP-G R5 is very bright. My semi new Thrunite XP-G is dead. Tried to run it at the 9V it says its rated for with a dc supply at 9v even and flash the driver went out. Useless. The Anto was compared to it before it died and it was definitely much brighter. The XP-G has a very useful overall beam. Take readings with the 4.2 lith ion and just a quick read with the 6V battery pair big C. Too see if the brightness changes at all. I couldn't see any different on the power supply from 4.5V to 7.5V in a quick read but of course that's just an eyeball. You got the latest and greatest sphere O truth. :thumbsup:


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Great work BC (& MrG too).

your hard work is very appreciated


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I will test the Anto XP-G R5 with both IMR 18650 and 2 new CR123 Primareis:wave:



I just tested my Dereelight MC-E P60 drop-in. Originally it had a 2.4A driver, but I now has the shinningbeam 2.5A driverr; which have 3 modes. I used my 6P bored (18650) and the bezel has a UCL lens.

Here is what I got:
*Surefire 6P w/UCL____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650________________________ 489.2________________1 sec
*Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________439.2_______________ _30 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________435.4_______________ _1 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________410.0_______________ _2 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________398.5_______________ _3 min


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I finally got a chance to test the Anto P60 drop-in. I used the same hosts, UCL lens, and IMR 18650. Interesting to note that with 2 primaries (top of the input voltage) the Anto P60 1.4A module performs poorly compared to just a single IMR 18650.

I can't account to why the lumens drop so much after 1 second. I am not recording peak intant lumens, that is actually the number that pops up at turn-on aka. 1 second reading.

With the Anto P60 XP-G R4 I would get 1.43A steady at the tail. With the new XP-G R5 I get a solid 1.401A at the tail. 

Here it goes:
*Name of light__________________LED Type ________________Batteries ________________Lumens __________ Time*
*Solarforce w/ UCL_________________ Anto P60 XP-G R5__________________ 1 IMR 18650______________________ 353.8_________________1 sec*
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5__________________ 1 IMR 18650_______________________296.2_________________ 30 sec
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5__________________ 1 IMR 18650_______________________291.5_________________ 1 min
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5__________________ 1 IMR 18650_______________________284.6_________________ 2 min
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5__________________ 1 IMR 18650_______________________280.8_________________ 3 min
*Solarforce w/ UCL_________________ Anto P60 XP-G R5__________________ 2 Primaries_______________________292.2_____________ ___ 1 sec*
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5___________________2 Primaries________________________237.7____________ ____ 30 sec
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5___________________2 Primaries________________________240.0____________ ____ 1 min
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5___________________2 Primaries________________________250.0____________ ____ 2 min
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5___________________2 Primaries________________________249.2____________ ____ 3 min
Solarforce w/ UCL___________________Anto P60 XP-G R5___________________2 Primaries________________________256.2____________ ____ 4 min
*Anto P60 w/L2 ________________________ XPG-R4 ___________________ 1 IMR 18650 w/ 1.43A ________________ 286.2 ________________ 1 sec*
Anto P60 w/L2 _________________________ XPG-R4 ____________________1 IMR 18650 w/ 1.43A _________________ 286.9 ________________ 30 sec
Anto P60 w/L2 _________________________ XPG-R4 ____________________1 IMR 18650 w/ 1.43A _________________ 298.5 ________________ 1 min
Anto P60 w/L2 _________________________ XPG-R4 ____________________1 IMR 18650 w/ 1.43A _________________ 296.9 ________________ 1.5 min
Anto P60 w/L2 _________________________ XPG-R4 ____________________1 IMR 18650 w/ 1.43A _________________ 292.3 _________________2 min
Anto P60 w/L2 _________________________ XPG-R4 ___________________ 1 IMR 18650 w/ 1.43A _________________ 288.5 _________________3 min
Anto P60 w/L2 _________________________ XPG-R4 ___________________ 1 IMR 18650 w/ 1.43A _________________ 283.1 ________________ 4 min


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

wow! thanks for all those readings :thumbsup:


the solarforce turbohead is the Pro-I, and it runs brighter on 2 rcrs  :naughty:


RA clicky 140 -- got a 142 OTF reading.. LOL nice! psst - the liteflux lf2xt TI is a XP-G R5


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



csshih said:


> wow! thanks for all those readings :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> the solarforce turbohead is the Pro-I, and it runs brighter on 2 rcrs  :naughty:
> 
> 
> RA clicky 140 -- got a 142 OTF reading.. LOL nice! psst - the liteflux lf2xt TI is a XP-G R5


 

Thanks.

What is the brand of the Damascus light?


----------



## Anto

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I can't account to why the lumens drop so much after 1 second. I am not recording peak intant lumens, that is actually the number that pops up at turn-on aka. 1 second reading.



PM'ed you. I believe this problem might be isolated to your module due to a slight ground revision.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



psychbeat said:


> NB D-36 SST50 in 26650fivemega!!
> 
> Im going to get one this week either way but
> am curious if anyone is sending you one.
> sorry if its been done already- didnt see it.
> thanks!!


 

Nope...Not yet.

The only one tested was the SST-50 with 2.5A driver from shinningbeam.com and it was absolutely awesome at 470 OTF and over 400 at 4 mintues in P60 6P type hosts with IMR 18650.

If you get it we can test it. The next time there is a Bay Area BBQ, I will take the IS Sphere and we can see how bright it is or you can ship it to me if you can't wait. Some DD D36 SST-50 inspite of the big IMR 26650 cell the current may be well below 4A which might help in the OTF department. My particular SST-50 in P60 DD format was pulling 5.8A which really hurt in the OTF that is why I sent it back for 2.5A driver. You may also experience switch meltdowns at those high current temperatures.



bigC


----------



## psychbeat

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Id be happy to send it to yah after I get it 
to satisfy my curiosity and maybe a few others out there?


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> Thanks.
> 
> What is the brand of the Damascus light?



it's the new NAITHAWK brand, see here:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=213486


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

@ Anto... wow that XPG-R4 looks like a winner.
I am running an R4 off a 4x7135 board, with rev-polarity diodes bypassed and am very happy with the result. Hopefully I can get it in the sphere of truth II soon.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Update:

I have been reading about the DBS hosts being able to make more lumens vs. a 6P type hosts due to the added surface area ect....

Well I got a stock DBS MC-E; it comes with a 2.1A MC-E able to run up to 14v. I used a 6P vs. DBS hosts and with the same cells I got more OTF lumens initally and throught the 3 minutes runtime too:twothumbs

*Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.______Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 463.1________________1 sec
*Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 416.2________________30 sec
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 393.8________________1 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 365.4________________2 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 348.5________________3 min
*Dereelight DBS hosts_________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________ 470.8________________1 sec*
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 420.8________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 414.6________________1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 406.9________________2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 402.3________________3 min


----------



## flashfiend

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Now I really want to get my direct drive DBS sst50 tested.


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

MORE lumens with the DBS? I assumed there would be fewer with the deeper reflector but that there would be less of a lumen drop from temperature. Now I'm even more interested in 2.5/2.8/IMR DD/LiPo DD SST-50 GJ results with the DBS


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



joshconsulting said:


> MORE lumens with the DBS? I assumed there would be fewer with the deeper reflector but that there would be less of a lumen drop from temperature. Now I'm even more interested in 2.5/2.8/IMR DD/LiPo DD SST-50 GJ results with the DBS


 

Well,,

I did manage to test my Nailbender drop-in SST-50 with 2.5A driver. Anto didn't pot it after all, but this allowed me to use the pill in the DBS:thumbsup:

*Name of light__________________LED Type ________________Batteries ________________Lumens __________ Time*
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________499.2_________________ 1 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________433.1_________________ 30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________423.8_________________ 1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________416.9_________________ 2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________413.8_________________ 3 min

Here is what it did before in MrGmans 6in IS Sphere in a 6P type hosts, but in both cases with the same IMR 18650. You should also note that both the L2 and the DBS have AR coated lens.
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____470__turn-on____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____450__20 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____444__30 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____430__60 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____416__120 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____407__180 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____405__240 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass.


----------



## dandism

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

BigC, will there be a San Jose area lumen measureing meet? :naughty:


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Interesting, it seems the DBS reflector collects more of the light but I would have thought the output would drop less. Do you have any thermal paste to try putting around the base of the reflector where it fits into the body, and possibly where the P60 module screws into the reflector? That seemed to help thermal conductivity on mine.

Also, was yours the stock AR glass or a replacement? The stock apparently has a 95-96% transmission, and isn't quite up to par with flashlightlens.com's lenses. Jay also told me that there were issues with milky lenses, but those were supposed to have been fixed.

Either way, no big difference. Quite an impressive output scraping 500, the 2.8 would likely get 530ish on turnon


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

MMM Dereelight with Nailbender SST-50....how in the world am I going to justify buying another flashlight. Let's see...the bathroom in the playroom hasn't got a flashlight...err the garage doesn't have a flashlight...Nailbender to my pocket Quark to the garage!

Now that I think about it I'm waiting until the new Dereelight tactical tailcap is available. Too hard to push the clicky and I never use flashlights to tailstand.


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



dandism said:


> BigC, will there be a San Jose area lumen measureing meet? :naughty:



lol,


----------



## flashfiend

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

BigC, can you PM with your general location in SJ? Do you live in the southern part or northern part? I feel like with me living in San Leandro I am close but yet so far. I really want to see if the DBS changes your initial findings with the direct drive sst-50. In my case I'd be using a protected battery and not IMR (current ?heat? shouldn't spike so fast). I should have a nailbender/FM sst-90 DD mag setup to test as well very soon.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Craig,

I have a Dereelight R2 with Aspherical of my own now

I been doing beamshoots at 200yards with the Dereelight and the DEFT FTP and I can't see one brighter at that distance than the other.


Maybe I need to test those Aspherical monsters at 400 yards to see which is the obious thrower.

bigC


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Got a lux meter?


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

perhaps the rubber pre-colliminator needs playing with. I accidentally bumped it before.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



csshih said:


> perhaps the rubber pre-colliminator needs playing with. I accidentally bumped it before.


 

Thanks,

I will try messing around with the pre-colliminator and see if it clearly beats the Dereelight Aspherical at 200 yards.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Finally I got to measure the Fenix TK40 MC-E. Really nice light if I may add.





Here are all the lights added as of last night.


*Name of light__________________LED Type ________________Batteries ________________Lumens __________ Time* 
*Fenix TK40_____________________________ MC-E_________________________8 Eneloops_______________________ 570.8_________________1 sec*
Fenix TK40______________________________MC-E_________________________8 Eneloops________________________552.3_____________ ____30 sec
Fenix TK40______________________________MC-E_________________________8 Eneloops________________________543.8_____________ ____1 min
Fenix TK40______________________________MC-E_________________________8 Eneloops________________________542.3_____________ ____2 min
Fenix TK40______________________________MC-E_________________________8 Eneloops________________________553.1_____________ ____3 min
*4D Mag Terralux TLE-300M-EX_____________3 R2_________________________4D Alkalines______________________ 608.5_________________1 sec*
4D Mag Terralux TLE-300M-EX______________3 R2__________________________4D Alkalines______________________ 522.3_________________30 sec
4D Mag Terralux TLE-300M-EX______________3 R2__________________________4D Alkalines______________________ 504.6_________________1 min
4D Mag Terralux TLE-300M-EX______________3 R2__________________________4D Alkalines______________________ 485.4_________________2 min
4D Mag Terralux TLE-300M-EX______________3 R2__________________________4D Alkalines______________________ 473.8_________________3 min
*MiniMag AA w/Terralux TLE-5EX___________Q5__________________________ 2 AA Eneloop_____________________81.5_________________ 1 min*
MiniMag AA w/Terralux TLE-5EX_____________Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________80.8_________________ 30 min
MiniMag AA w/Terralux TLE-5EX_____________Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________79.2_________________ 1 min
MiniMag AA w/Terralux TLE-5EX_____________Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________72.3_________________ 2 min
MiniMag AA w/Terralux TLE-5EX_____________Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________70.0_________________ 3 min
*Fenix LD10_____________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop____________________115.4__________________ 1 sec*
Fenix LD10______________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop_____________________106.2_________________ _30 sec
Fenix LD10______________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop_____________________103.8_________________ _1 min
Fenix LD10______________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop_____________________101.5_________________ _2 min
Fenix LD10______________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop_____________________100.8_________________ _3 min
*Regal EDC______________________________Q5_______________ ____________2 AA Eneloop______________________100.0________________ 1 sec*
Regal EDC______________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________ 90.8________________ 30 sec
Regal EDC______________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________ 88.5________________ 1 min
Regal EDC______________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________ 86.9________________ 2 min
*ITP A2 EOS_____________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________70.0_________________ 1 sec*
ITP A2 EOS_____________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________ 66.2_________________30 sec
ITP A2 EOS_____________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop______________________ 65.4_________________1 min
*EagleTac P10A__________________________ Q5___________________________2 AA Eneloop_____________________123.1_________________ 1 sec*
EagleTac P10A___________________________Q5_________________ __________2 AA Eneloop______________________111.5________________ _30 sec
EagleTac P10A___________________________Q5_________________ __________2 AA Eneloop______________________108.5________________ _1 min
EagleTac P10A___________________________Q5_________________ __________2 AA Eneloop______________________105.4________________ _2 min
EagleTac P10A___________________________Q5_________________ __________2 AA Eneloop______________________103.8________________ _3 min
*Jetbeam Jet-i V3_________________________R2_____________________ ______2 AA Eneloop_____________________117.7_________________ 1 sec*
Jetbeam Jet-i V3__________________________R2____________________ _______2 AA Eneloop______________________117.7________________ _30 sec
Jetbeam Jet-i V3__________________________R2____________________ _______2 AA Eneloop______________________116.2________________ _1 min
Jetbeam Jet-i V3__________________________R2____________________ _______2 AA Eneloop______________________113.8________________ _2 min
Jetbeam Jet-i V3__________________________R2____________________ _______2 AA Eneloop______________________113.8________________ _3 min
*Tiablo TL-1 V.2__________________________Q5___________________ ________ 2 AA Eneloop_____________________80.0_________________ 1 sec*
Tiablo TL-1 V.2___________________________Q5__________________ _________ 2 AA Eneloop______________________76.2_________________ 30 sec
Tiablo TL-1 V.2___________________________Q5__________________ _________ 2 AA Eneloop______________________74.6_________________ 1 min
Tiablo TL-1 V.2___________________________Q5__________________ _________ 2 AA Eneloop______________________73.1_________________ 2 min
Tiablo TL-1 V.2___________________________Q5__________________ _________ 2 AA Eneloop______________________72.3_________________ 3 min
*NiteCore EZAA__________________________Q5__________________ _________ 2 AA Eneloop_____________________103.1_________________ 1 sec*
NiteCore EZAA___________________________Q5_________________ __________ 2 AA Eneloop_____________________104.6_________________ 30 sec
NiteCore EZAA___________________________Q5_________________ __________ 2 AA Eneloop_____________________104.6_________________ 1 min
NiteCore EZAA___________________________Q5_________________ __________ 2 AA Eneloop_____________________104.6_________________ 2 min
*Fenix LD01 Mod________________________XP-G R5_______________________1 AAA Eneloop____________________ 96.9_________________ 1 sec*
Fenix LD01 Mod_________________________XP-G R5_______________________1 AAA Eneloop_____________________ 91.5_________________ 30 sec
Fenix LD01 Mod_________________________XP-G R5_______________________1 AAA Eneloop_____________________ 89.2_________________ 1 min
Fenix LD01 Mod_________________________XP-G R5_______________________1 AAA Eneloop_____________________ 87.7_________________ 2 min
*2D Mag w/ Malkoff_____________________P7 Drop-in_______________________2 AW 18650______________________ 463.1_________________1 sec*
2D Mag w/ Malkoff______________________P7 Drop-in________________________2 AW 18650______________________ 389.2_________________30 sec
2D Mag w/ Malkoff______________________P7 Drop-in________________________2 AW 18650______________________ 392.3_________________1 min
2D Mag w/ Malkoff______________________P7 Drop-in________________________2 AW 18650______________________ 393.1_________________2 min
2D Mag w/ Malkoff______________________P7 Drop-in________________________2 AW 18650______________________ 390.8_________________3 min
*Surefire U2 Ultra_______________________ Stock________________________2 CR123 Primaries__________________ 133.1_________________1 sec*
Surefire U2 Ultra_________________________Stock_______________ _________2 CR123 Primaries___________________ 117.7_________________30 sec
Surefire U2 Ultra_________________________Stock_______________ _________2 CR123 Primaries___________________ 122.3_________________1 min
Surefire U2 Ultra_________________________Stock_______________ _________2 CR123 Primaries___________________ 119.2_________________2 min
Surefire U2 Ultra_________________________Stock_______________ _________2 CR123 Primaries___________________ 117.7_________________3 min
*Megalenium w/SOB Tower_____SOB 1227 XP-G R4 by JustinCase__________ 3 AW 18650______________________169.2_________________1 sec*
Megalenium w/SOB Tower_______SOB 1227 XP-G R4 by JustinCase____________3 AW 18650______________________150.0_________________3 0 sec
Megalenium w/SOB Tower_______SOB 1227 XP-G R4 by JustinCase____________3 AW 18650______________________148.5_________________1 min
Megalenium w/SOB Tower_______SOB 1227 XP-G R4 by JustinCase____________3 AW 18650______________________146.9_________________2 min
*Surefire M6 w/ SOB Tower_____SOB 1000 P4 by JustinCase________________??????????______________ _______120.0_________________1 sec*
Surefire M6 w/ SOB Tower_______SOB 1000 P4 by JustinCase_________________??????????_____________ _________ 114.6_________________30 sec
Surefire M6 w/ SOB Tower_______SOB 1000 P4 by JustinCase_________________??????????_____________ _________ 113.8_________________1 min
Surefire M6 w/ SOB Tower_______SOB 1000 P4 by JustinCase_________________??????????_____________ _________ 112.3_________________2 min
*Mag 4D w/Malkoff P4 mod_____JustinCase put an XP-G R4 in lieu of P4______ 4D Alkaline_____________________ 164.6_________________1 sec*
Mag 4D w/Malkoff P4 mod_______JustinCase put an XP-G R4 in lieu of P4_________4D Alkaline______________________139.2_______________ __30 sec
Mag 4D w/Malkoff P4 mod_______JustinCase put an XP-G R4 in lieu of P4_________4D Alkaline______________________136.2_______________ __1 min
Mag 4D w/Malkoff P4 mod_______JustinCase put an XP-G R4 in lieu of P4_________4D Alkaline______________________133.8_______________ __2 min
Mag 4D w/Malkoff P4 mod_______JustinCase put an XP-G R4 in lieu of P4_________4D Alkaline______________________132.3_______________ __3 min


----------



## MrGman

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

DANNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGG big C, your just going to town on all these readings. Great job.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Big C, very nice work. While we may not all say it all the time, your thread gets tons of views and I'm sure I speak for everyone here that this public service is very much appreciated.

A couple questions/observations, on the TK40, I noticed the lumens started to rise at 3 minutes, do you think the batteries started to get warm and perform better as the light began to warm? Second, on the LD10, I believe that should be 1xAA, either that or the sender had the LD10 head on an LD20 body (LD10 - 1xAA, LD20 - 2xAA).

Thanks for all you do!!


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Where did those so-called 630 OTF lumens claimed by the Fenix go?


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Surprising that the AW/XP-G R4 and SSC P4 U2 towers measured so low. When I ceiling bounced those and other similar towers, they were all comparable to or brighter than a Malkoff M30. Also, I measured the drive current from the drivers to the LED. To get 170 OTF lumens from an XP-G R4, the drive current would have to be closer to about 750mA (assuming 30% optical losses from the reflector and the window), whereas I measured 1196mA drive current from the SOB1227. Similarly for the P4 tower, I measured 964mA drive current from the SOB1000. The P4 is a U2-bin from Photonfanatic, so it should be up to spec, meaning at least 100 emitter lumens at 350mA. To get 120 OTF lumens, the drive current would have to be around 700mA, again assuming 30% optical losses.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Where did those so-called 630 OTF lumens claimed by the Fenix go?


 
Even Light Reviews measured 626 (obviously VERY close to 630), but then I'm not an expert on the complexities of an IS.

http://www.light-reviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=122


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Justin Case said:


> Surprising that the AW/XP-G R4 and SSC P4 U2 towers measured so low. When I ceiling bounced those and other similar towers, they were all comparable to or brighter than a Malkoff M30. Also, I measured the drive current from the drivers to the LED. To get 170 OTF lumens from an XP-G R4, the drive current would have to be closer to about 750mA (assuming 30% optical losses from the reflector and the window), whereas I measured 1196mA drive current from the SOB1227. Similarly for the P4 tower, I measured 964mA drive current from the SOB1000. The P4 is a U2-bin from Photonfanatic, so it should be up to spec, meaning at least 100 emitter lumens at 350mA. To get 120 OTF lumens, the drive current would have to be around 700mA, again assuming 30% optical losses.


 
Justin,
The KT-4 bezels I am not sure are AR coated. More importantly the Surefire KT-4 bezels have a shock isolation that in M series bezels for example we loose at least 15~20% OTF lumens.

Jaudice will have a KT-2 bezel which doesn't have that shock isolation ring and he said it might even have AR coated lens too. Once John gets them we can re-test and you can expect those lumens to go up:twothumbs


----------



## jaundice

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Justin Case said:


> Surprising that the AW/XP-G R4 and SSC P4 U2 towers measured so low. When I ceiling bounced those and other similar towers, they were all comparable to or brighter than a Malkoff M30. Also, I measured the drive current from the drivers to the LED. To get 170 OTF lumens from an XP-G R4, the drive current would have to be closer to about 750mA (assuming 30% optical losses from the reflector and the window), whereas I measured 1196mA drive current from the SOB1227. Similarly for the P4 tower, I measured 964mA drive current from the SOB1000. The P4 is a U2-bin from Photonfanatic, so it should be up to spec, meaning at least 100 emitter lumens at 350mA. To get 120 OTF lumens, the drive current would have to be around 700mA, again assuming 30% optical losses.


 
Justin;

Those towers were tested in a KT4 turbohead. BigChelis' data suggests that the foam shock-isolation causes an additional 10% light loss. This is due to the black foam absorbing so much light. I can retest those towers using a KT1/2, and we'll see what they read.

I agree that visually, those towers seem brighter. 

-John


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



was.lost.but.now.found said:


> Even Light Reviews measured 626 (obviously VERY close to 630), but then I'm not an expert on the complexities of an IS.
> 
> http://www.light-reviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=122


 

If they measure instant-peak no doubt it will be way over 600 OTF, but I don't like to do those measurements because instant peak is between 0~1 sec. I rather do the 1 second reading because our eyes will actually see the 1 second reading.

The TK40 is very stable with little if any drop. The MC-E is regulated and you can see the lumens go up after turn-on due to that.


----------



## jaundice

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

BigC;

Funny, we posted almost exactly the same substance from our conversation last night.

Alternately, we could test the tower alone, without a turbohead, for another reading?

-John


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



MrGman said:


> DANNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGG big C, your just going to town on all these readings. Great job.


 


I think I am going over doing it.:sick2: I will have another Anto XP-G R5 for re-testing soon. As you saw the lumens on mine dropped super fast compared to the R4 sample.


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Can you test just the bare tower? That would be interesting to see what the lumens loss is when you then add a KT1/2 or a KT4 TH.

It must be some serious loss. Just on paper, you'd think that an XP-G R4 driven at ~1200mA would deliver about 2.7 * 130 = 350 emitter lumens. So we are looking at ~50% loss. Same for the P4 tower -- 230 emitter lumens down to 120 OTF lumens.

So it would be cool if you had a suite of SureFire THs -- KT1/2, KT4, SRTH, and TRTH -- for testing to identify which one has the least loss due to structural masking.

Another interesting thing to examine would be the loss when using an incandescent tower, instead of an LED tower. Thus, test a bare MN20, for example. Then attach various SF THs and re-test.

Regarding SF's Pyrex/Boro windows, I can see the telltale greenish tinge of an antireflection coating on the window for a Z44. I don't see anything for the KT THs. However, SF's web site states that the KT1/2 THs use an "optically coated" window. No such claim for the KT4.

So perhaps the KT1/2 is the superior TH vs the KT4 in terms of light transmission and heat sinking.

Edit: I note that the SureFire 2008 Illumination Tools catalog says that the KT4 TH uses a "coated" window.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Last night we tested Kramer5150 P60 R2 drop-in in a 6P hosts with UCL lens and it was 200 OTF. Then we put on a M2 stock bezel and we got 170ish OTF. 

Krammer5150,

Was it an R2? and can you give the exact OTF lumens just by switching bezels please.

Thanks,
bigC


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

The M2 bezel is the current version of the Z32 shock bezel, correct? So it suffers about 15% loss vs the Z44? Or is that a Z44 with a UCL (presumably from flashlightlens.com) in place of the stock coated Pyrex/Boro?


----------



## jaundice

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Justin Case said:


> Can you test just the bare tower? That would be interesting to see what the lumens loss is when you then add a KT1/2 or a KT4 TH.


 
Sure, I'll do that the next time I head over to BigC's. I'm interested in seeing the results, as well. 



Justin Case said:


> So it would be cool if you had a suite of SureFire THs -- KT1/2, KT4, SRTH, and TRTH -- for testing to identify which one has the least loss due to structural masking.


 
I have a KT1/2 and the KT4 which was used for testing last night, so a comparison will be easy. Tracking down a SRTH and/or TRTH will be a little more difficult. Unless you want to let us borrow yours for a testing session. :naughty: (No worries if you don't. I consider those sufficiently irreplaceable that I probably wouldn't let them out of my sight, personally)



Justin Case said:


> Another interesting thing to examine would be the loss when using an incandescent tower, instead of an LED tower. Thus, test a bare MN20, for example. Then attach various SF THs and re-test.


 
Okay, I can do that, too, next time I test. I don't have an MN20 handy, but I do have an 1185 on a FM MN tower, which I think will do nicely. 




Justin Case said:


> So perhaps the KT1/2 is the superior TH vs the KT4 in terms of light transmission and heat sinking.


 
I'm beginning to think that's the case. Further testing will reveal the answer, I'm sure.

-John


----------



## jaundice

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Justin;

One additional variable we didn't control for in last night's testing is that your R4/SOB1227 tower was on a crenelated KT4 bezel, which will create additional light loss, since the crenelations by necessity protrude into the IS. Your P4/SOB1000 tower was tested in my other KT4, which as the smaller crenelations.

BigC mentioned last night that have even a millimeter of black flashlight body protruding into the sphere caused a measureable decline in light. The black surface absorbs that much reflected light in the sphere, preventing it from being read in the meter.

-John


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> Last night we tested Kramer5150 P60 R2 drop-in in a 6P hosts with UCL lens and it was 200 OTF. Then we put on a M2 stock bezel and we got 170ish OTF.
> 
> Krammer5150,
> 
> Was it an R2? and can you give the exact OTF lumens just by switching bezels please.
> 
> Thanks,
> bigC



The module that did 200OTF with your UCL/solarforce bezel was a DX sku.12501, Q2-5A BIN XR-E. I ran it with 2x16340, non-IMR cells in my M2 host body.

When I put the stock M2 bezel back on Lumen output dropped to 170L OTF. So 30L is lost inside the shock isolation bezel.

@Justin_Case: The M2 bezel is completely OEM stock, Pyrex lens, non-coated.

I didn't do an extended 3 minute run, just glanced at the lumen output after ~15 seconds in each case.


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Where did those so-called 630 OTF lumens claimed by the Fenix go?




Its not specified anywhere but I suspect most manufacturers who publish OTF lumens, measure "instant peak". That is a semi-fictional output value. The light bursts on for a millisecond. That millisecond is enough time to register a peak-value by the Ft-candle meter, but no where near long enough duration for the human brain/eyes to detect.

Publishing instant-burst Lumens is a very common practice (I suspect). Its very clear, from the measured data who publishes burst measurements and who does not.

Thanks Jose for hosting yet another great mini-meet!!! we got to play around with a lot of great lights.


----------



## dandism

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

It was a fun mini-meet. Thanks Jose :twothumbs.
btw, I think I left a p10a and ld10 box at your apt.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



dandism said:


> It was a fun mini-meet. Thanks Jose :twothumbs.
> btw, I think I left a p10a and ld10 box at your apt.


 
You sure did.


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Your data has lots of interesting stuff in it.

The SF U2A clocks in at ~130 lumens initially. I've measured about 915mA drive current for one of the Seoul P4 U2As. How much loss do you think you get going from emitter to OTF lumens for the U2A? 20%? 30%? If it's 30%, the emitter could be a U1 bin. If it's 20%, it could be a T1 bin.

The Malkoff Mag drop-in shows a sudden drop in initial output followed by fairly steady running. It would be interesting to try NiMH cells instead of alkalines to see if the drop is from battery voltage sag. With such a massive copper heat sink, I wouldn't think that the lumens drop is from heat. I also thought that Malkoff Mag drop-in was a 2D-3D drop-in. Am I misremembering?


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

@Justin_case... I was very impressed with your handiwork. great DIY skills my friend!!:thumbsup:


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

kramer5150, thanks for the kind words.

Jaundice, it will be interesting to see how the lumens output holds up vs time when you use your KT1/2 TH. I measured a significant difference in heat sinking capability for the KT1/2 vs KT4 in this post.


----------



## Dole

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Deleted


----------



## sfca

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Excuse me as I ask around for answers!

Since this _is_ the spot for discussion & IS readings of the new Eagletacs; opinions on lux between the XPG and R2 models?
Hotspot is bigger, but quoted lux @ 1m(sorry can't find a definitive lux page :sigh measurements [for OP reflector] fall from 15,000 to 8,000 lux. 

Those that can compare does this correlate with what you see with your own eyes [for Smooth reflectors]?

I'm also curious about A) Hotspot size & B) Lux between these 3 similar models
T20C2 XPG
Anto's R5 P60
& E2DL ("200 lumen" version) - _*I miss my E2DL :mecry: I think I'm going to get another one! When I do I'll send it in.

*_


----------



## jaundice

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Justin Case said:


> The Malkoff Mag drop-in shows a sudden drop in initial output followed by fairly steady running. It would be interesting to try NiMH cells instead of alkalines to see if the drop is from battery voltage sag. With such a massive copper heat sink, I wouldn't think that the lumens drop is from heat. I also thought that Malkoff Mag drop-in was a 2D-3D drop-in. Am I misremembering?


 
Justin;

The drop-in is marked 2-4D cells. I have an email out to Malkoff asking specifically about the driver. No word yet on the voltage specs, output, etc.

-John


----------



## jaundice

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Justin Case said:


> Jaundice, it will be interesting to see how the lumens output holds up vs time when you use your KT1/2 TH. I measured a significant difference in heat sinking capability for the KT1/2 vs KT4 in this post.


 
Yes, that will be my next round of testing. I think we'll get some good data.

-John


----------



## sfca

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

You know what I just realized? We need volunteers to send in their:

2008 120 lumen E2DL(s)
2009 120 lumen E2DL(s)
2010 200 lumen E2DL(s)

& 2010 200 lumen LX2(s)

*Let's solve the mystery once and for all!! :laughing:*


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



sfca said:


> You know what I just realized? We need volunteers to send in their:
> 
> 2008 120 lumen E2DL(s)
> 2009 120 lumen E2DL(s)
> 2010 200 lumen E2DL(s)
> 
> & 2010 200 lumen LX2(s)
> 
> *Let's solve the mystery once and for all!! :laughing:*


 
MrGman measured his 2009 E2DL 120 lumen light and it was 200ish OTF.

A new LX2 Surefire hasn't been measured by us and I would like to see what they do as welll. My guess is at least 200 OTF, but no more than 300 OTF.:thinking:


----------



## Databyter

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Cool comparisons although you have the 9 aa solution for 1185 listed as

*3D Mag w/bi-pin kit_____WA1185____________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack ________716.2____1 sec*
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________643.8____30 sec
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________619.2____1 min
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________607.7____2 min
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________606.2____3 min
3D Mag w/bi-pin kit________WA1185______________9 eneloops w/ 12.6v pack____________606.9____4 min

It should be 10.8 V. 

This is a great chart! I believe the accuracy is very good.
I believe my 9AA pack puts out a bit more more lumens than this now that I have put in a soft start switch, I think it really helped the current, and I already had the tailspring mod. 
This kind of chart is great for comparitive putposes though. I'm seeing the 3IMR's put out more lumens for M*G 85, but now that mine is crazy bright with the new switch, I'd rather stick with some batteries I don't have to baby sit, and can run down a bit in a pinch. For that purpose alone I think it has more "usable" run-time than the 3 IMR's
I can't wait to try the 1909 and Hikari bulbs in my MaG85 Build with my new low resistance fix. I was pulling 3.1 amps at the tail, now I'm pulling 3.35 at the tail. It's a very noticable increase in lumens (800 lumens to 1200 lumens estimated at bulb per destructive chart)
Thanks for this great roundup, I think this is gonna have to be added to my bookmarks.


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Any chance of getting a Quark Mini 123 on CR123/RCR123s? I'm thinking of getting one, but I'll probably wait 1-5 months until the neutral XP-Gs come out.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



joshconsulting said:


> Any chance of getting a Quark Mini 123 on CR123/RCR123s? I'm thinking of getting one, but I'll probably wait 1-5 months until the neutral XP-Gs come out.


 

I tested the Quark Mini 123 with a Primary:
*Quark Mini 123_________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary________________142.3_________________1 sec
*Quark Mini 123__________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary__________________138.5_________________30 sec
Quark Mini 123__________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary__________________136.9_________________1 min
Quark Mini 123__________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary__________________136.9_________________2 min
Quark Mini 123__________________________XP-G R5_________________ 1 Surefire CR123 Primary__________________136.9_________________3 min


MrGman tested the same one I have with a IMR 16340, but they are not designed or made to run off li-on or iMR rechargeables.

Here are MrGmans readings:
Quark 123 Mini_High_________200__turn-on_____________1XIMR16340_________________________ ________,
Quark 123 Mini_High_________192__60 sec_____________1XIMR16340________________________ _________,
Quark 123 Mini_High_________190__120 sec____________1XIMR16340_________________________ ________,


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



joshconsulting said:


> Any chance of getting a Quark Mini 123 on CR123/RCR123s? I'm thinking of getting one, but I'll probably wait 1-5 months until the neutral XP-Gs come out.


 

I wonder if Quark drivers drove the XP-G at higher amps if the tint wouldn't be so green?


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



recDNA said:


> I wonder if Quark drivers drove the XP-G at higher amps if the tint wouldn't be so green?



The XP-G is 'specced' for 350 ma with a max of 1.5a; RCRs drive it around 1.25a, CR123s around 900-100 ma - it should be more then enough current, if anything they're being overdriven. I think it's simply a product of the manufacturing process; it's entirely possible that 4sevens is buying cheaper binnings with more variance and less pure white to cut costs down to the $50 mark. XP-G lights are still pretty hard to find, the costs don't seem to be dropping as much as expected.

@bigc: It would be awesome if someday you got numbers for a K-106 on a 14500. I measured 1.3a at the tailcap, which for a Q5 would be somewhat less output then a 1.25a XP-G. But a bad driver and poor reflector (my K-106 is heavily textured) could cut down output significantly.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Thanks to JustinCase and Josh I have took the leap of faith in search of more lumens and purchased some Arctic Silver 5. I purchased mine at my local Fry's Electronics and it is $9ish with tax and you only get a tiny tiny 3.5grams

I put that compound around the Nailbender P60 SST-50 2.5A pill.







I can tell you that I felt the bezel noticeably warmer (which it certainly did) at 3 minutes, but I rather show you how it affected lumens.
I used the same IS Sphere, the same DBS Dereelight Hosts, and the same IMR 18650. I know it is not much gain, but every little helps.


*Dereelight DBS hosts____________ _Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A_____________1 IMR 18650_______________________499.2_________________ 1 sec*
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________433.1_________________ 30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________423.8_________________ 1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________416.9_________________ 2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_______________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_______________________413.8_________________ 3 min
*Dereelight DBS hosts_____________ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A____________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5____498.5_________________1 sec*
Dereelight DBS hosts_w/Artic Silver 5_ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5______440.8_________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts_w/Artic Silver 5_ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5______436.2_________________1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_w/Artic Silver 5_ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5______429.2_________________2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts_w/Artic Silver 5_ Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________1 IMR 18650_____w/Artic Silver 5______426.2_________________3 min


----------



## saabluster

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I know it is not much gain, but every little helps.


 I have always been in the "every little bit helps" camp. I just love seeing hard facts to back it up. Thanks!


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

So show  I'm excited to learn.

Also, remember that thermal paste takes some practice and experience to do correctly. I've done it 30+ times myself, and I'm still learning. The general rule is that less is more and you never, ever let it touch your hands. Wash your hands in rubbing alcohol (preferably 99% isopropanol), and completely clean the threads on the pill and reflector with a soft, lint-free cloth and alcohol. Apply a small amount and use a finger covered in saran wrap to spread it around the threads. Then screw it in and unscrew it a couple of times so it's evenly distributed before tightening it very snugly.

If you really want the very best results, use Arctic Silver MX-3 instead of AS5, but it's expensive (20-25$ per tube) and HORRIBLY hard to put on. It clumps together and is sticky; it's more like taffy then thermal paste. I've done it many, many times and it took me over 45 minutes to recoat my graphics card last night after a benchmark run. I'm not even sure I could apply it effectively to the threads.

AS5 is nice in that it's partially liquid. If your new and having a hard time with it, heat a cup of water in the microwave and soak the tube in it for a few minutes before using it - it'll make it more fluid and less viscous.

Just thought I'd post this for people new to thermal paste and wondering how to apply it or what kind to buy 

EDIT: Saw you edited in results. Not bad, but I personally think you would see a bigger difference when holding it in your hand. For your listed results, the greatest thermal barrier is still between the flashlight body and the ambient air; air is a good insulator, so the body has a hard time transferring the heat away and a lot of heat has to be transferred from the pill to the body to get the temperature high enough to transfer the heat to the atmosphere. If you were holding the light, your hand would provide a thermal pathway, and the thermal gradient between the P60 pill and the reflector would be of greater significance.

Testing with a fan or other means of active cooling would be a way to test this theory.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I decided to put the Arctic silver 5 to one more reading to see if it is consistant using another hosts.

MrGman measured my SST-50 P60 NB 2.5A in my Solarforce L2 hosts. The hosts had the tactical Solarforce clickie in MrGmans tests.

I used a Surefire 6P hosts w/ Solarforce L2 bezel with UCL lens. I used an IMR 18650 and a Surefire twistie stock tail cap. I put more cooper tape and litteraly forced it in the 6P. I put more Arctic Silver too then tested it for OTF lumens and here is my results. I did notice the tube by the tailcap was warm and not just the bezel

*Surefire 6P w/UCL lens___________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A_____________ 1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5 ____505.4_________________ 1 sec*
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____465.4_________________ 30 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____454.6_________________ 1 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____443.1_________________ 2 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____436.2_________________ 3 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL lens_____________Nailbender SST-50 w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650_____w/Arctic Silver 5 _____430.8_________________ 4 min


Previously in MrGmans test:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/229135
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____470__turn-on____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____450__20 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____444__30 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____430__60 sec,____________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____416__120 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____407__180 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 
Nailbender SST50_P60_H_____405__240 sec,___________1_IMR 18650__________Solarforce L2 with AR coated glass. 

Oh and I did test the SST-50 in the 100% same format as MrGman did. In my 10.5in IS Sphere this is what I got. Pretty much identical except my turn-on lumens were higher, but you can at least see how much better the overall performance is with the Arctic Silver 5.
1 sec = 500
30 sec = 435.4
1 min = 422.3
2 min = 410
3 min = 403.1


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hardly a fair test with the 6P vs a L2P, might want to try the 6P without AS5 to see if the extra mass is what's causing the boost instead of the AS5.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



joshconsulting said:


> Hardly a fair test with the 6P vs a L2P, might want to try the 6P without AS5 to see if the extra mass is what's causing the boost instead of the AS5.


 
You are correct.. I can do the L2 test again, but this time add AS5 to it like I did with the 6P. :thumbsup:


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I have always used AS5 in my builds, that plus a couple dabs of CA to hold the parts together, since AS5 is not an adhesive.

Hope it works for you as well as it has for me.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

This is the 1st time I use AS5 and I been putting on my Test Subjects by using pliers to hold the pills. The only time I touch that compound is when I screw it in, but clean my fingers on the outside of the reflector. Of course I then wash my hands clean of all AS5. 

This is how my P60 Pills look when I am done and how they look when on the DBS Turbo bezel. Any advise is welcomed. I don't know if I am using too much, but it makes my lumens remain high throught the runtime:twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I wanted to let others see how much Arctic Silver 5 has helped me. First; let me explain that I use as many insider pointers (learned here at CPF).

My bezels are Solarforce w/flat stainless ring
My bezels are equipped with UCL AR coated lens
I use 3M cooper around the P60 modules
I use top quality cells AW 2600mAh or IMR 18650
I will from now on use Arctic Silver 5 when possible.
Now here are my latest findings:
*Surefire 6P w/UCL____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A______________ 1 IMR 18650________________________ 489.2________________1 sec*
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________439.2_______________ _30 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________435.4_______________ _1 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________410.0_______________ _2 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650_________________________398.5_______________ _3 min
*Surefire 6P w/UCL___________ Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_______________1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 553.8________________1 sec*
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________510.0________________30 sec
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________494.6________________1 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________480.8________________2 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________473.1________________3 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________466.1________________4 min
Surefire 6P w/UCL_____________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________ 1 IMR 18650___w/Arctic Silver 5_________463.1________________5 min
*Dereelight DBS______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_____ 530.0________________1 sec*
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 493.1________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 486.9________________1 min
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 480.8________________2 min
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 473.8________________3 min
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 468.5________________4 min
Dereelight DBS_______________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.5A_________________1 IMR 18650____w/Arctic Silver 5_______ 465.4________________5 min



Previously; I had tested my Dereelight P60 drop-in regulated at 2.1A. I tested with just cooper tape in my 6P bored +18650 ext. I re-tested it with Arctic Silver 5 and the initial lumens went way up. Look how the lumens don't drop as much too. I think this AS5 helps the P60 drop-ins the most, but it helped my DBS bezel lego's a bit as well.



*Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.______Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 463.1________________1 sec*
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 416.2________________30 sec
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 393.8________________1 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 365.4________________2 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 348.5________________3 min
*Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.______Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5__ 523.1________________1 sec*
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____467.7________________30 sec
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____463.8________________1 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____456.9________________2 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____453.8________________3 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____450.8________________4 min
Surefire 6P w/ 18650ext.________Dereelight P60MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5____448.5________________5 min






*Dereelight DBS hosts_________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650__________________ 470.8________________1 sec*
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 420.8________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 414.6________________1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 406.9________________2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___________________ 402.3________________3 min
*Dereelight DBS hosts_________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A___________ 2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5__468.5________________1 sec*
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 428.5________________30 sec
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 426.9________________1 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 423.1________________2 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 420.0________________3 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 417.7________________4 min
Dereelight DBS hosts__________Dereelight P60 MC-E w/2.1A_____________2 AW 2600mAh 18650___w/Arctic Silver5___ 416.2________________5 min


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

being a tinker, i'm not sure I want to open your DBS anymore


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

*GULP*

That's a MASSIVE amount of AS5. For a CPU, which has an area of roughly 2 square inches, I use a dollip about the size of a grain of rice. And a reflector\P60 pill is a lot smaller then 2 square inches. AS5 is designed to fill microscopic gaps in the surface, and can actually act as an insulator if it's too thick. I've fried a CPU by putting too much of it on.

But, since it seems to be working, it must still do the trick. Since flashlights deal with far less heat at lower temperatures with rougher construction, maybe you do need more to plug gaps. Still, it's a lot 

Either way, glad to see it's helping quite a bit in P60 format.


----------



## saabluster

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I wanted to let others see how much Arctic Silver 5 has helped me.


BigC there is something wrong in that 6p comparison. AS5 will not affect the turn on numbers. It won't have much affect at 30 sec either. Something is amiss. 

This is pure speculation but maybe it is helping electrically.:shrug: FYI that is way way way too much AS5 on that. I don't think is will cause a problem like it would with a CPU but there is just no need for that much.


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

holy crap... thats a LOT.

Something strange is going on, it shouldn't have that much of an impact on instant peak readings, when the LED temperatures are cool and equal.

oops saab beat me to it.


----------



## MrGman

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I was thinking the same thing as well, that the electrical conduction must be getting better to cause turn on readings to get better like that. I could see that with that generous amount that the conduction into the host shell inner wall is being improved somewhat with all that Silver paste. Goes to show you how resistive a mechanical contact is even with generous surface area.

but also if he went from a solarforce host with the clicky switch to a real Surefire 6P twistie tailcap switch that uses all that surface area of the spring loaded plate for the electrical return contact versus the little spring loaded internal switch contact of a Solarforce unit that is probably 100 milliohms of contact resistance, that would make a difference also. It all adds up.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Thank you all for the tips. I guess it was alot since I ran out now


When I screw in the MC-E 2.1A pill by Dereelight in my P60 reflector a lot of it gutted out. I used the left over to put around the cooper tape and outside the bezel too. It is not pretty, but as many of you saw the performance was better. In fact, one peculiar thing is that I notice the tailcap is warm too. 

Krammer5150 we need to test your 2.5A M bin P60 DX drop-in before and after we apply AS5 to see if you get the same results. 

Here is how it looked during testing in my 6P with twistie tailcap:


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Yuk... LOL I don't know if I want to do that to my light.

You should also be aware that it gets really runny when it warms up. its like dried toothpaste when cool, but quickly liquefies when warm. I dont know what would happen if that stuff were to run down on the +B.

I think there are metallic particles in AS5, that might scratch the UCL coating of you try and wipe it off your lens. I am not sure if its good for the threads either.

I only use a tiny dab of it between the LED and brass pill.

:green:


----------



## FroggyTaco

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

AS5 is slightly capacitive so it could be allowing more current draw as well the improved heat sinking.

Josh..you have to remember the clamping pressure associated with CPU to HSF/WB mounts. These drop-in are not being pressed together any where near what a CPU is.

IIRC, one of the beast thermal greases for large "voids" is one of the ShinEtsu variants.

p.s. Josh isn't it Arctic Cooling MX-3 instead of Arctic Silver? Even since IC7 Diamond has been released I haven't looked back on my PC builds so I haven't watched any recent developments.

Travis


----------



## FroggyTaco

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



kramer5150 said:


> I think there are metallic particles in AS5, that might scratch the UCL coating of you try and wipe it off your lens. I am not sure if its good for the threads either.
> :green:



The "particles" are silver hence the name & excellent thermal transfer properties.


----------



## MrGman

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Is some of the "liquid" part of that going to outgas over time and fog over the lens? That is a heck of a lot.


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



FroggyTaco said:


> AS5 is slightly capacitive so it could be allowing more current draw as well the improved heat sinking.
> 
> Josh..you have to remember the clamping pressure associated with CPU to HSF/WB mounts. These drop-in are not being pressed together any where near what a CPU is.
> 
> IIRC, one of the beast thermal greases for large "voids" is one of the ShinEtsu variants.
> 
> p.s. Josh isn't it Arctic Cooling MX-3 instead of Arctic Silver? Even since IC7 Diamond has been released I haven't looked back on my PC builds so I haven't watched any recent developments.
> 
> Travis



I don't think the clamping pressure is a big issue. Like BigC said, the dropins are being jammed in quite hard. A few months or so ago I did some tests with a Heatkiller v3 waterblock and i7 CPU with a screw-in backplate to see how temperature varied, and it really didn't make much of a difference all the way up to where the cooler wasn't being held down much more then the weight of the block. You are correct, it's Arctic Cooling instead of Arctic Silver (same brand name, different product line), I just got used to the convenience of writing it as AS. I haven't tried the ShinEtsu series as it tends to be more expensive without benefits for CPUs, but if it can bridge larger gaps it would indeed do better. I thought about IC7 Diamond for my main build, but initial reviews didn't really show it beating MX-3.

One way to test if electrical conductivity is a factor would be to try AS Ceramic, it's designed to be non-conductive so you would have to remember to leave a space bare for electrical contact. Also, online you can get 12 or 20 gram tubes for ~$10-12, a lot cheaper then the 3.5g.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I just purchased another tube of AS5. I figured the hight current P60 pills benefit great, but what about low current builds.

I have a DeCree XP-G by Electrolumens. The lens is not UCL AR/coated:sick2:, but using the same topped off AW 18650 2600mAh cell I re-tested it with AS5 around the pill section.







The improvements were not as super as the high powered MC-E or SST-50 pills, but it helped.:thumbsup:

*Electrolumens DeCree XP-G________XP-G with 5 degree Optic________ 1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A____________ 297.7_________________1 sec
*Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic__________ 1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A_____________ 275.4_________________30 sec
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic__________ 1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A_____________ 275.4_________________1 min
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic__________ 1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A_____________ 271.5_________________2 min
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic__________ 1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A_____________ 269.2_________________3 min
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic__________ 1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A_____________ 269.2_________________4 min
*Electrolumens DeCree XP-G________XP-G with 5 degree Optic____1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A___w/ArcticSilver5__302.3________________1 sec*
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic_______1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A___w/ArcticSilver5__ 284.6_________________30 sec
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic_______1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A___w/ArcticSilver5__ 282.3________________ 1 min
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic_______1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A___w/ArcticSilver5__ 279.2_________________2 min
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic_______1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A___w/ArcticSilver5__ 277.7_________________3 min
Electrolumens DeCree XP-G__________XP-G with 5 degree Optic_______1 AW 2600mAh cell w/ 1.2A___w/ArcticSilver5__ 276.2________________ 4 min


----------



## SCEMan

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I wonder how the CL1Hv4 & MC-E would improve from AS5 treatment since it seems to have better heatsinking than a 6P?


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



SCEMan said:


> I wonder how the CL1Hv4 & MC-E would improve from AS5 treatment since it seems to have better heatsinking than a 6P?


 

Maybe Craig will let me tamper with his Dereelight hosts for testing.:naughty:


----------



## ma_sha1

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Big C., 

I just made a Triple XPG R5 with LXP optics, direct drive on Mag 1C using DX C-lion. It's crazy bright & I think it might beat out the SSR-50 5A mag. The host is bored to accept 26mm IMR 25500. 

I am interested in sending to you for a test. Would you compare Dx C-lion & IMR 26500 the same way you did with the SSR-50 & post the numbers next to the SSR-50 light. I'd like to have two > 1000 lumen OTF lights side by side on your chart  

let me know


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



ma_sha1 said:


> Big C.,
> 
> I just made a Triple XPG R5 with LXP optics, direct drive on Mag 1C using DX C-lion. It's crazy bright & I think it might beat out the SSR-50 5A mag. The host is bored to accept 26mm IMR 25500.
> 
> I am interested in sending to you for a test. Would you compare Dx C-lion & IMR 26500 the same way you did with the SSR-50 & post the numbers next to the SSR-50 light. I'd like to have two > 1000 lumen OTF lights side by side on your chart
> 
> let me know


 

Send it on over. PM SENT.

The 3 XP-G R5 is suppose to be more efficient than the SST-50 at 5A now we can conclude without a doubt if it is brighter too.

bigC


----------



## saabluster

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



ma_sha1 said:


> The host is bored to accept 26mm IMR 25500.


Man if an IMR 25500 won't get your blood pumping you've got problems.


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I'd like to see a 5x or 6x XP-G setup in a 26650 host. The efficiency of the XP-Gs at <1A draw is amazing. More efficiency means more light and less heat. It would cost quite a bit, though. I'm halfway tempted to buy some parts and start trying it myself, but I've gone down that slippery slope before with various other hobbies, and it's a place I don't want to be. I always end up spending three times as much as I should and losing all my free evenings.


----------



## Locoboy5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Where did those so-called 630 OTF lumens claimed by the Fenix go?



That 630 lumen rating is a factory rating from Fenix and, as with most factory light output ratings, is generally marketing over-hype. Thus, that's why I basically ignore all factory provided ratings. That goes for my Fenix TK40 too, which was the one that was tested for this thread last week. When I was shopping for it I pretty much ignored the 630 lumen spec.

That brings up the point of whether it *really* matters or not. I've been using my TK40 for about five months now and not once have I ever thought, "gee I wish that this was brighter" during use. So, whether it actually puts out 630 lumens as stated boldly by Fenix or 550 lumens as measured by Bigchelis last week, does it really matter in real world use? To me, not really because the light works very well for my personal use. In an ideal world, the flashlight manufacturers would have an independent certified lab do all their light output measurements. That seems to be an impossibility though.

Thank you Bigchelis for being a warm host last week. Your tests are a *HUGE* eye opener for me in terms of how much these manufacturers over-hype their light specs. They really should get their act in gear.

Also, on the subject of Arctic Silver 5, I bought a tube of it for my 4D cell Maglite with the Terralux TLE-300M-EX that you tested. Without the thermal compound, the body of the light did not get warm at all when using it on high mode. With it, the body does get quite warm after a few minutes of use, so it does work and work well at dissipating heat. The tests that you did last week were with the Arctic Silver 5.

I bought the same size tube that you did but I got mine at Radio Shack. It also was $9.50:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2216879


----------



## jirik_cz

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Locoboy: just wondering how old is your TK40? Is it from the early batches with K-bin or newer with M-bin?


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I doubt that Arctic Silver 5 is really necessary. You can save your money and use Arctic Alumina compound or Ceramique.

I tabulated thermal conductivities of the various Arctic XX products here.

Arctic Silver 5, 8.89 W/m-K
Arctic Alumina compound, >4W/m-K
Ceramique, >5.08 W/m-K

Thermal resistance is given by bond line thickness/(thermal conductivity * effective contact area).

I did a back of the envelope calculation for an LED turbo tower in a KT1. The contact area is an annulus (a ring) with OD ~0.8" and ID ~0.6". Thus, the contact area is pi*(0.8^2 - 0.6^2) = 0.88 sq in = 0.00057m^2. If we use Arctic Silver 5 compound, we have a thermal conductivity of 8.89 W/m-K. If we assume a bond line of 5 mil (0.000127 m), we get a thermal resistance of 0.025 C/W. So it looks like the thermal resistance is essentially nil, meaning you should get good heat flow from the tower to the TH and thus good heat sinking by the TH.

The 5 mil bond line assumed above is probably larger than actual since the LED tower is pressed tightly against the under surface of the TH. However, you could have 5 mil slop in the threads of your pill and in the fit between the TH and the flashlight neck. Regardless, the thermal resistance isn't overly sensitive to the bond line thickness (linear dependence). We could double the bond line (and 10 mils is a big gap) and the thermal resistance will become 0.05 C/W for the above turbo tower calculation. Still negligible.

The thermal resistances for the other compounds scales with their thermal conductivity. Thus, for AA compound, the thermal resistance is <0.056 C/W. For Ceramique, it is <0.044 C/W.

BigC, your setups most definitely will have far more contact area than what I've used here for an LED turbo tower in a KT1. Probably orders of magnitude more. Any minor differences in thermal conductivity for Arctic Silver 5 vs some other magic goop is completely swamped by the huge contact area.

Keep the bond line thin and the contact area large and you probably can use toothpaste.


----------



## MrGman

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Is the Alumina and Ceramique thermal compounds electrically conductive? Aren't these both insulators? Putting them on the threads of the pill might make for a very resistive path. In other places it may not matter but the way big C slathers it on he may find he has an open or highly resistive circuit and a very dim light using these, yes?


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

The pill's electrical contact to the TH reflector is irrelevant. That's not part of the flashlight circuit path. The ground path is pill shell to flashlight tube neck. You are right regarding avoidance of using electrically insulating goops elsewhere, such as on the outside of the TH and pill where they may contact the flashlight neck.

Still, IMO it is overkill and unnecessary to slather the head all over with thermal compound. Even for what I would guess to be a large bond line, you need only a square inch or so of contact area to reduce thermal resistance to a negligible level. Thus, I'd put thermal compound only on the TH threads that connect to the rest of the flashlight. I'd leave the remainder of the TH clean. All of that excessive compound is just a mess that is going to cause other problems.

It would be interesting to test for any lumens output difference when using Arctic Silver 5 vs AA compound.


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

So the Mini on High with an IMR 16340 would run about 15 min total? (I know not to run it for 15 min straight. I mean the total of let's say 5 three minute runs)?

Is there any clue when the IMR is getting too low? I noticed mine is at 3.7 v yet high is still maximum brightness.

I assume on a conventional RCR123 it wouldn't be discernably brighter than with a primary?


----------



## psychbeat

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

no its waaay brighter on high with a regular rcr than with a primary.
15min or so sounds about right runtime wise. Ive had mine on for about that
long using on my bike but was mooooving and I sprayed water on it 

my NB sst50 is showing up today I think so Im gonna stop by rat shack
n get sum AS5. Ill try not to slather it toooooo much but I know it will
be tempting!!


----------



## ky70

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Am I reading this right? On a cr123, the Romisen RC-N3 pushes out more lume than a qmini 123 (150 v. 142)? I wonder what the Romisen would do on a rcr123?


----------



## psychbeat

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

silly ? but do u guys think AS 5 would do anything for a qmini123?
I use mine with 16340 pretty much exclusively:devil:
a little on the threads might help transfer heat to the body?
 or maybe just make a mess....


----------



## Locoboy5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



jirik_cz said:


> Locoboy: just wondering how old is your TK40? Is it from the early batches with K-bin or newer with M-bin?



Gee, I don't know. I bought it in October 2009. It is serial number 1N7J5A00407 if that helps.


----------



## daimleramg

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> *2D Mag w/ROP__________ROP 3853H _________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/3.34A__379.2____1 sec*
> 2D Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3853H ___________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/3.34A_____349.2_____30 sec
> 2D Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3853H ___________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/3.34A_____339.2_____1 min
> 2D Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3853H ___________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/3.34A_____315.4_____2 min
> 2D Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3853H ___________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/3.34A_____304.6_____3 min
> *2D Mag w/ROP__________ROP 3854H _________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/4.33A__710.0____1 sec*
> 2D Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854H ___________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/4.33A_____658.5_____30 sec
> 2D Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854H ___________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/4.33A_____617.7_____1 min
> 2D Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854H ___________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/4.33A_____563.8_____2 min
> 2D Mag w/ROP____________ROP 3854H ___________2 IMR 26650 AW cells w/4.33A_____538.5_____3 min


 

Did AW finally get some 26650 in production? or is this just a typo :green:


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



daimleramg said:


> Did AW finally get some 26650 in production? or is this just a typo :green:


 
its a typo..


the AW IMR 26500 were used and IMR 26650's. 

Thanks,
bigC


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



ky70 said:


> Am I reading this right? On a cr123, the Romisen RC-N3 pushes out more lume than a qmini 123 (150 v. 142)? I wonder what the Romisen would do on a rcr123?




No BC forgot an "R". The RC-N3-Q5 did those numbers with an Ultrafire blue RCR123. Its not very bright with a primary CR123, maybe 85 Lumens ballpark.


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

oops, is it just me or did you lost some readings in the first post?


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



csshih said:


> oops, is it just me or did you lost some readings in the first post?


 

I saw that last night, I didn't do anything on my end.:shakehead

It would really be a pain if I have to re-type all those lights:scowl:


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I saw that last night, I didn't do anything on my end.:shakehead
> 
> It would really be a pain if I have to re-type all those lights:scowl:



*cough*

http://docs.google.com


----------



## ky70

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



kramer5150 said:


> No BC forgot an "R". The RC-N3-Q5 did those numbers with an Ultrafire blue RCR123. Its not very bright with a primary CR123, maybe 85 Lumens ballpark.


 
OK, thanks for clearing that up. I have the mini 123 and have been tempted to get the rc-n3 (in part because of your great review) and 150 lumens on primary would have made that a must buy.


----------



## ma_sha1

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I saw that last night, I didn't do anything on my end.:shakehead
> 
> It would really be a pain if I have to re-type all those lights:scowl:




Perhaps save a copy in MS word as back-up, Cut & paste back in if things like this happen again?


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I prefer to use various bbcode writers found on the web, but if this situation is not resolved and you have to type it up, I'll make a backup on my site.


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

IMO, entering the data in Excel makes much more sense. That will allow you to do any sort of calculations on the data, such as inverse square law extrapolations and curve fitting of any lux data. Word is not a database or a spreadsheet, while Excel can do both adequately enough.

It's easy enough to take the Excel cells and post them to CPF as a jpeg or gif.


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Actually, it's maddeningly hard to post a table. Using either a screenshot or print to image means you print the image, crop it, save it, upload it to imageshack, and hotlink it. It's not *that* long, but having to repeat it every time you make a change gets old fast.

And the worst part? No text search. That pretty much kills it, with a decent number of lights it would quickly get very frusturating to find a specific one, compared to text where you can simply hit ctrl+f.


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

It's easy to add an Excel table. You run MWSnap, crop the area of interest, and save it to a file. Upload it to a photo hosting site and link it. It's not a one-step process of cut-and-paste, but it isn't "maddingly hard" either. It's up to bigC how frequently he wants to update the data. If he does it once or twice a week, I hardly see what the big deal is.

It get's more complicated when the table starts to get big and exceeds the size of one screen. I'd probably post the Excel sheet in sections, a la what Lux Luthor does with his destructive incan tables. You could also link the Excel data to a Word file. Thus, the data is always entered into Excel to take advantage of Excel's calculating and database functions, while it gets tabulated in Word for listing on CPF.

You can add a link to download the spreadsheet file itself. Easily searchable and sortable and extendable. Let's you do all sorts of calculations on the data. Add your own columns, such as head diam, type of optical system (e.g., reflector or TIR), etc.


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

you can convert the excel table to HTML and host it on a website.

I can do that


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

The above two posts combined essentially describe Google Docs, which I and (mostly) Jose are currently trying to get working.


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



csshih said:


> you can convert the excel table to HTML and host it on a website.
> 
> I can do that



It's easy. Excel 2007 has various Save As... file formats for the web.


----------



## dirtech

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

This is a great reference, and just wanted to say thanks for your efforts in providing it.
:twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Justin Case said:


> It's easy. Excel 2007 has various Save As... file formats for the web.


 


I have Excel 2007, but when I click on save-as all my options are excel type files. None are for web based save-as formats

PM me the steps for MWcrop you mentioned please.

bigC


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I have Excel 2007, but when I click on save-as all my options are excel type files. None are for web based save-as formats
> 
> PM me the steps for MWcrop you mentioned please.
> 
> bigC


That's not really a good option. You have to find a file hosting site, then save upload and re-link every time you change something. If your hosting it on a CPFers website, they either have to give you the password or you have to pm them to update the site each time you want to change something. Google docs is a much better option; just post the link you pmed me in the first post.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



joshconsulting said:


> That's not really a good option. You have to find a file hosting site, then save upload and re-link every time you change something. If your hosting it on a CPFers website, they either have to give you the password or you have to pm them to update the site each time you want to change something. Google docs is a much better option; just post the link you pmed me in the first post.


 

I want to post the actual spreadsheet on this site, not the link.:thumbsup:


----------



## wapkil

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I want to post the actual spreadsheet on this site, not the link.:thumbsup:



Yup, I agree that google docs may be handy here.

I believe everyone with google e-mail account also has an google docs one. You simply go to http://docs.google.com, log in with your e-mail account login and password, select upload button of the left to upload your excel file, select it from the files list and finally chose "get the link to share" from the share button on top. It works like any other file-sharing website and does a pretty decent job converting various formats to something readable with a browser.

With default options, if you post the link, people will have read only access to it. It should look like this random .xls that I uploaded a few minutes ago.


----------



## csshih

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Justin Case said:


> It's easy. Excel 2007 has various Save As... file formats for the web.



lol, I meant the hosting part.


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> I want to post the actual spreadsheet on this site, not the link.:thumbsup:



I'm still not sure what you want to do. Here's your main options, pick one and explain or tell me what I'm missing 

1. Host spreadsheet on a file upload site like Mediafire. Requires that you save, upload, and re-link every time you change something. Requires that anyone viewing the spreadsheet download it before opening (security risk, hassle for those viewing), and forces users to go through Mediafire ads and launch pages.

2. Host spreadsheet as a file on a CPF hosted website like csshih's. Requires that you save, PM csshih, and send him the file every time you change something unless he decides to give you the password and admin console for his website, or (unlikely) a custom security tool that lets you update that page alone. Requires that anyone viewing the spreadsheet download it before opening (security risk, hassle for those viewing).

3. Host spreadsheet as a HTML file on CPF hosted website like csshih's. Requires that you save, PM csshih, and send him the file every time you change something unless he decides to give you the password and admin console for his website, or (unlikely) a custom security tool that lets you update that page alone.

4. Host spreadsheet as a HTML file on a custom free hosting site. Requires a lot of initial setup time and upkeep. Requires that you save, upload, and re-link every time you change something.

5. Host spreadsheet as a HTML file on your computer using IIS7 or Apachie. Requires a LOT of initial setup, lots of security knowledge and effort to avoid potential attacks on your computer, and is probably against your ISP policy (your internet may be cut off). Easy to update, just save the file in the right directory.

6.  Host spreadsheet in Google Docs with a permanent link in the first post. Every time you save changes they are automatically added. No security risk, viewers can see the page instantly without skipping through advertisements or launch screens.

Let me know which options your considering and I may be able to help you out without all the communication issues :thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

So,

Option #6 sounds like the easy way. I will update the lumens thread manually and have my entire file linked via Googledocs.com in case somebody wants to click over to view all the readings.

Thanks,
bigC


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

JustinCase,

I followed your steps and since I will just add to my list it seemed like a easy and good way to go with MWSnap. I will not modify since the readings are what they are. 

Thanks for the help.:thumbsup:

I added a couple more lights too.


----------



## headophile

this makes me feel even better about my tk40 :twothumbs 

the results speak much about the quality of the light. there was hardly any drop in brightness after 3 mins where almost every other light shot down drastically. the output was also very close to the number stated by fenix and beats many other mc-e and even sst-50 lights. 

thanks for testing it


----------



## joshconsulting

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> JustinCase,
> 
> I followed your steps and since I will just add to my list it seemed like a easy and good way to go with MWSnap. I will not modify since the readings are what they are.
> 
> Thanks for the help.:thumbsup:
> 
> I added a couple more lights too.



Boo, now I can't find lights with ctrl + F 

Oh well, spreadsheet should help with that  It will likely mess up Google Search results, though.

Also, always use PNG for graphics. It produces a smaller file with 100$ quality instead of the artifacts JPEG produces. JPEG is designed for photographs with millions of colors; PNG is designed for graphics with a few hundred but that have straight lines and smooth gradients that need to be preserved with lossless compression.


----------



## ma_sha1

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> JustinCase,
> 
> I followed your steps and since I will just add to my list it seemed like a easy and good way to go with MWSnap. I will not modify since the readings are what they are.
> 
> Thanks for the help.:thumbsup:
> 
> I added a couple more lights too.




Congratulations Big C, Excel sheet looks great, just a little low in resolution, a bit fuzzy looking. *Also, Excellent idea that you added 5 Meter Lux! *
with both Lumen & 5M lux, people can get a good idea of both total out put and the throw.

I am making a DEFT clone with SSR-50, hope to over drive it
to 6A or so, I'll have to send it in then . I think 5M lux won't be in Deft level but hope to beat regular Aspherical 2500 lux, with a spot 4x bigger,
might be more practical as a search light.


----------



## Justin Case

Have you ever tried measuring the lux from an automobile headlight? Or tried to measure the output from a bare automotive bulb in the IS?


----------



## MrGman

_"Congratulations Big C, Excel sheet looks great, just a little low in resolution, a bit fuzzy looking. *Also, Excellent idea that you added 5 Meter Lux! *_
_with both Lumen & 5M lux, people can get a good idea of both total out put and the throw."_

Yes this is a great combination and very good work that you are doing, but you still have to go out and find a real job that pays money. Maybe some one from Surefire will see your work and want to hire you. 

Your table of data is going to be very big very soon. May want to limit each actual post size to 200 lines or something like that to prevent it from crashing and burning. 

It would be great to have 5 meter lux readings next the lumens readings for as many as you have time for. 

Justin the sphere is 10 inch inner diameter (roughtly) with a 3.5 inch port. Couldn't fit a car headlight in the opening, at least not in the original configuration. Without the reflector assembly on these new lamps the reading would be off and no way representative of what "out the front" would be coming through the exterior lense. Having to put the actual lamp inside the sphere would require recalibration and it might actually start melting the styrofoam.


----------



## Justin Case

MrGman said:


> _"_Justin the sphere is 10 inch inner diameter (roughtly) with a 3.5 inch port. Couldn't fit a car headlight in the opening, at least not in the original configuration. Without the reflector assembly on these new lamps the reading would be off and no way representative of what "out the front" would be coming through the exterior lense. Having to put the actual lamp inside the sphere would require recalibration and it might actually start melting the styrofoam.


 
I didn't ask about putting an entire headlight in the sphere. I asked about putting the bare bulb in for testing. In any case, it doesn't seem feasible since it seems to require putting the bulb inside of the sphere, rather than just through a port. Lux testing of a car headlight, however, doesn't require a sphere.


----------



## SCEMan

Question I haven't seen asked:

How would repeating a reading (e.g. 30 sec duration) a few minutes later affect the lumens score?

In other words, is it the battery (IMR, etc.) and/or heat that causes the largest lumen drop. And what score will "resting" the light result in? 

I typically use the HIGH mode on my lights for 1-3 mins. at a time and it would be interesting to see how much drop occurs when HIGH is reused after interruption by periods of non-use (or lower mode use).

Hope this makes sense...


----------



## bigchelis

I see the excell sheets perfectly clear in my phottobucket, but when I past them in the thread they come out fuzzy:sick2:


----------



## MrGman

Justin Case said:


> I didn't ask about putting an entire headlight in the sphere. I asked about putting the bare bulb in for testing. In any case, it doesn't seem feasible since it seems to require putting the bulb inside of the sphere, rather than just through a port. Lux testing of a car headlight, however, doesn't require a sphere.


 

with so many different headlight configurations nowadays wasn't sure. These new ones with removable "bulb" and not a fully sealed lamp assembly would go in, but yes, it would require recalibrating the sphere as it would interfere with the internal reflections. That is a lot of work.


----------



## sprinkle

bigchelis said:


> I see the excell sheets perfectly clear in my phottobucket, but when I past them in the thread they come out fuzzy:sick2:




Try saving the image of the speadsheet as a .PNG instead of a JPG and then uploading to photobucket. I have had luck with that when posting photos to sites.


----------



## joshconsulting

sprinkle said:


> Try saving the image of the speadsheet as a .PNG instead of a JPG and then uploading to photobucket. I have had luck with that when posting photos to sites.



Take a look at my post 

There are a couple of reasons the images look clearer in photobucket, such as photobucket compressing them after you upload, but the bottom line is that posting graphics in JPEG is a no-no.


----------



## sprinkle

joshconsulting said:


> Take a look at my post
> 
> There are a couple of reasons the images look clearer in photobucket, such as photobucket compressing them after you upload, but the bottom line is that posting graphics in JPEG is a no-no.




Oops, missed that in your post. But now there is 2 votes for PNG :twothumbs


----------



## joshconsulting

sprinkle said:


> Oops, missed that in your post. But now there is 2 votes for PNG :twothumbs








http://lbrandy.com/blog/2008/10/my-first-and-last-webcomic/


----------



## kramer5150

Hey Jose which version Romisen RC-T6 did you test? the DX XRE-Q4 version or the KD XRE-Q5?

I like designs that under drive the LED slightly in favor of cooler running regulated output.

thanks


----------



## recDNA

I remember you told me that the Javelin with 2 X IMR 14500 didn't have the maH umph nor the heat sinking metal for an MC-E but I see the Javelin w 3 X Tenergy w the DX MC-E producing great output on your chart! Would the Dereelight MC-E drop in be expected to be less succesful than the SX in the same set up?

Are 3 X Tenergy 1.7 a that much stronger than 2 X AW IMR 14500?

You just smear the arctic silver on the back of the reflector then drop it in or do you copper tape it first?

*Thanks again* for your great work hear. I love seeing those lux ratings as well. The DEFT is over one hundred and thirty thousand lux? OMG I need to save up.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> I remember you told me that the Javelin with 2 X IMR 14500 didn't have the maH umph nor the heat sinking metal for an MC-E but I see the Javelin w 3 X Tenergy w the DX MC-E producing great output on your chart! Would the Dereelight MC-E drop in be expected to be less succesful than the SX in the same set up?
> 
> Are 3 X Tenergy 1.7 a that much stronger than 2 X AW IMR 14500?
> 
> You just smear the arctic silver on the back of the reflector then drop it in or do you copper tape it first?
> 
> *Thanks again* for your great work hear. I love seeing those lux ratings as well. The DEFT is over one hundred and thirty thousand lux? OMG I need to save up.


 

The Javelin bezel I think could be a lot smaller and still fit the P60 drop-ins. I have to put about 1/4 in additional copper tape to make it fit snug. The Tenergy NiMH AA cells should sag less then the IMR 14500, but I can test the 2.5A Dereelight drop-in to see how it does in a Javelin w/Tenergy AA's.

Jose


----------



## bigchelis

kramer5150 said:


> Hey Jose which version Romisen RC-T6 did you test? the DX XRE-Q4 version or the KD XRE-Q5?
> 
> I like designs that under drive the LED slightly in favor of cooler running regulated output.
> 
> thanks


 

I actually purchased that light on Ebay a while ago and the seller advertised them as XRE-Q5. I paid over $100 dollars for it, but back then I didn't know about CPF


----------



## joshconsulting

Any chance of an iTP A1 EOS Q5 or R2 Ti? I think a lot of people around here would like to see how it compares to the Mini.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> The Javelin bezel I think could be a lot smaller and still fit the P60 drop-ins. I have to put about 1/4 in additional copper tape to make it fit snug. The Tenergy NiMH AA cells should sag less then the IMR 14500, but I can test the 2.5A Dereelight drop-in to see how it does in a Javelin w/Tenergy AA's.
> 
> Jose


 

I don't have the Javelin ext. tube for 3 batteries so I'm more interested in the 2 X IMR 14500 set up but thanks anyway.


----------



## bigchelis

Hi all,

I just tested Ma_Sha 1C Tripple XP-G R5. It has a flawless beam and white white tint, really white. It is direct drive and pulls above 5A on a topped off DX or IMR C cell. It didn't perform like we expected it too, but Ma will re-do the things he knows how and upon re-test we will see how this build evolves and hopefully others can learn from his trials.


----------



## recDNA

Oh, I meant to ask, if you use copper tape & arctic silver do you just butter the silver on top of the copper or do you put silver on the reflector, then add copper, then more silver?


----------



## jirik_cz

Just wondering what kind of reflector did new EagleTacs with R5 have? OP or SMO?


----------



## bigchelis

jirik_cz said:


> Just wondering what kind of reflector did new EagleTacs with R5 have? OP or SMO?


 

All the EagleTac XP-G R5's had OP.


----------



## jonnyfgroove

recDNA said:


> I don't have the Javelin ext. tube for 3 batteries so I'm more interested in the 2 X IMR 14500 set up but thanks anyway.



Where can I find IMR 14500 cells?

Thanks to everyone involved with all the testing, it is fascinating stuff! :rock:


----------



## bigchelis

I just tested the Anto XPG-R5. It is bright.


----------



## recDNA

jonnyfgroove said:


> Where can I find IMR 14500 cells?
> 
> Thanks to everyone involved with all the testing, it is fascinating stuff! :rock:


 
I only assumed there are IMR 14500. AW makes an unprotected 14500 but it is Li Ion. My mistake. I wonder why they don't make them?


----------



## psychbeat

mannnnn those anto drop-ins are SLAMMIN!

the XP-G s2 version is gonna b insane when they're available.

thanks for the tests!!

I still need to stop by ratt shack for some AS 5!

people can hate on it but ima slather my SST drop-in.

the #s dont lie!
:twothumbs


----------



## headophile

kramer5150 said:


> Hey Jose which version Romisen RC-T6 did you test? the DX XRE-Q4 version or the KD XRE-Q5?
> 
> I like designs that under drive the LED slightly in favor of cooler running regulated output.
> 
> thanks



hey bro, just a quick question if you don't mind. 

i was under the impression that most of the lights tested here like the eagletac m2xc4 are fully regulated unless otherwise specified (dd). yet many of them decreased in output sort of drastically after x minutes and they weren't even pumping out that much lumens for the type of emitter/s they are using. compared to, say, the tk40 which is an overachiever of sorts in terms of brightness yet it holds that brightness, presumably, for the entire regulated runtime.

is this all just heat playing a factor in performance or am i missing something else? thanks.


----------



## Egsise

It is impossible to do search when the readings are in picture.


----------



## bigchelis

I got the new Solarforce XP-G R5 P60 drop-in and it comes with a Smooth Reflector, but the beam is ringy like an R2:shakehead

Now from my Testing the drop-in doesn't work soo good with a single cell. The input voltage is 4.2v~18, but 2 or 4 cells work best.

Another thing I discovered is that the LumensFactory Seraph 9P type hosts somehow doesn't dissipate heat as well as the 6P.


----------



## joshconsulting

Egsise said:


> It is impossible to do search when the readings are in picture.



Someone else shares my concerns 

Jose sent me a google docs link which I'm using to search for now, but it's going to become outdated fast. We need an updated Google Docs link in the first post


----------



## ray2010

I have a question about the EagleTac T20C2 XP-G R5 and the EagleTac P20C2 XP-G R5 readings of 15650 and 8250 respectively at Cal 1 meter lux. Were both lights using the smooth reflector or the textured reflector?


----------



## bigchelis

ray2010 said:


> I have a question about the EagleTac T20C2 XP-G R5 and the EagleTac P20C2 XP-G R5 readings of 15650 and 8250 respectively at Cal 1 meter lux. Were both lights using the smooth reflector or the textured reflector?


 

both had an OP reflector and while they make similar OTF numbers the bigger reflectored variant made more lux as expected:thumbsup:


I now only do 5 meter readings and calculated 1 meter readings for the many reasons already exausted in this site.


----------



## csshih

bigC, since it's a p60 dropin, try it with other reflectors. :naughty:


----------



## bigchelis

csshih said:


> bigC, since it's a p60 dropin, try it with other reflectors. :naughty:


 

I might as well try your Solarforce XP-G R5 drop-in in Dereelight DBS and TLS 2.5in too. Sorry, but I couldn't resist the temptation of using AS5


----------



## jirik_cz

bigchelis said:


> both had an OP reflector and while they make similar OTF numbers the bigger reflectored variant made more lux as expected:thumbsup:
> 
> I now only do 5 meter readings and calculated 1 meter readings for the many reasons already exausted in this site.



It is interesting, that mev did measure completely different numbers. I measured my T20C2 R5 with OP from 4 meters and calculated 1 meter reading is also only around 8000 lux...


----------



## csshih

bigchelis said:


> I might as well try your Solarforce XP-G R5 drop-in in Dereelight DBS and TLS 2.5in too. Sorry, but I couldn't resist the temptation of using AS5



no worries. as5 is good in moderation! :twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

jirik_cz said:


> It is interesting, that mev did measure completely different numbers. I measured my T20C2 R5 with OP from 4 meters and calculated 1 meter reading is also only around 8000 lux...


 

I get 5 meters away from the lux meter and the value I get I multiply it by 25. That is what I think I should be multiply to. What x value do you use?


----------



## bigchelis

kramer5150 said:


> Hey Jose which version Romisen RC-T6 did you test? the DX XRE-Q4 version or the KD XRE-Q5?
> 
> I like designs that under drive the LED slightly in favor of cooler running regulated output.
> 
> thanks


 

Kramer5150,

When I purchased this light a long time ago It was being advertised as 1200 lumens I just checked on Ebay and they still say 1200 lumens, but the price has dropped in half.


----------



## aurum

When I bought my T6 it was being advertised as 1600 lumens  -> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170383677058&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

btw have you already checked the Trustfire 1200? Appears to be much brighter than the T6






cheers

EDIT: Do know the real Output of these SST-90 WM Emitters @2.8A : http://www.4sevens.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=sst-90&x=0&y=0 thx


----------



## bigchelis

aurum said:


> When I bought my T6 it was being advertised as 1600 lumens  -> http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170383677058&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
> 
> btw have you already checked the Trustfire 1200? Appears to be much brighter than the T6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers
> 
> EDIT: Do know the real Output of these SST-90 WM Emitters @2.8A : http://www.4sevens.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=sst-90&x=0&y=0 thx


 

I did test a 2D Mag with what I think was one of those high bin SST-90s.

It had 2 shinningbeam 2.5A drivers sandwich together and gave 5A constant current. lumens were 780ish~730ish and it never really drop much after 3 or even 10 minutes. The 1sec reading was 1000ish OtF, but by 2 seconds the lumens dropped to 780ish range:shakehead The 2D Mag had a britelumens heatsink and ran off an IMR 26650 cell. I even tested it with 3 Titanium 12,000mAh NiMH cells and no change in lumens. The body and bezel did get hot as expected with all those watts.


----------



## joshconsulting

http://www.lighthound.com/MKN-SST-90-MOD-Flashlight--one-26650-Battery-SST-90-LED_p_3479.html



> This flashlight starts life as a respectable MC-E LED flashlight, and is then upgraded with a new converter and an incredibly bright SST-90 LED. This flashlight has been tested at 729 REAL Lumens, and blows away flashlights that are rated at 900 lumens. The 26650 battery provides an incredibly long run time, and the convenience of charging a single battery for 2 full hours of usage on high, over 40 hours on medium, and hundreds of hours on low. The excellent heatsinking provides virtually no fade due to heat and the flashlight can be run for extended periods without overheating.


It appears they are direct-driving a SST-90 off of a Li-ion 26650 in a body with 'excellent heatsinking'. Wonder how it would do.

Oh, and I know I've asked this before, but I'll keep repeating it until I get a response - have you ever tried using an active cooling method, preferably holding the head of the light or at least having a fan on it to see how it affects lumens drop?


----------



## recDNA

joshconsulting said:


> http://www.lighthound.com/MKN-SST-90-MOD-Flashlight--one-26650-Battery-SST-90-LED_p_3479.html
> 
> 
> It appears they are direct-driving a SST-90 off of a Li-ion 26650 in a body with 'excellent heatsinking'. Wonder how it would do.
> 
> Oh, and I know I've asked this before, but I'll keep repeating it until I get a response - have you ever tried using an active cooling method, preferably holding the head of the light or at least having a fan on it to see how it affects lumens drop?


 
I love pocket rockets. Oh man if this is as good as it looks....


----------



## bigchelis

joshconsulting said:


> http://www.lighthound.com/MKN-SST-90-MOD-Flashlight--one-26650-Battery-SST-90-LED_p_3479.html
> 
> 
> It appears they are direct-driving a SST-90 off of a Li-ion 26650 in a body with 'excellent heatsinking'. Wonder how it would do.
> 
> Oh, and I know I've asked this before, but I'll keep repeating it until I get a response - have you ever tried using an active cooling method, preferably holding the head of the light or at least having a fan on it to see how it affects lumens drop?


 

Actually Mrgman would just place the lights in front of the IS Sphere, but I actually hold them with my hand with emphasis on the bezel in hopes of helping with the heat. 

I don't have any other cooling method, but it would be nice



EDIT: just looked at that SST-50 light at lighthound.com and it seems to me too much money for no regulation. It also looks like its an EDC type light, but when you see how big those 1C Mags are you realize this thing is much bigger than the picture. For $200 I rather have the Dereelight DBS w/SST-90 by NB with 2.8A driver.


----------



## joshconsulting

recDNA said:


> I love pocket rockets. Oh man if this is as good as it looks....



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/263156

I'm going to have a very hard time holding back on that. A MiNi sized light with a SST-50 pumping out 500+ lumens? Yes please. Even I think a 4.4a DD is too much for that size of a host, but I think 2.8A would be sufficiently cooled as long as your holding it. With a 2.8A high, 1A medium, and .02a low, you could have a 500 lumen, 12 minute high, 200 lumen, 35 minute medium and 3-5 lumen, 30 hour low. And if you swapped it for a primary and stuck to medium\low, you could see a 200 lumen\1.5h or 3-5 lumen\100 hour low. Sadly, none of the drivers have that good of spacing, but the 2.8a\1.1a\.5a doesn't look too bad.

Another reason we need Jose to see what holding a light does for cooling. The KL4 would be the perfect candidate, but any of the smaller lights with an extended drop would be best (anything that drops a lot beyond 30 seconds).


----------



## joshconsulting

bigchelis said:


> Actually Mrgman would just place the lights in front of the IS Sphere, but I actually hold them with my hand with emphasis on the bezel in hopes of helping with the heat.
> 
> I don't have any other cooling method, but it would be nice


Ah, so you already hold all of the lights while testing? Makes sense, would also explain why AS5 helps you out so much



> EDIT: just looked at that SST-50 light at lighthound.com and it seems to me too much money for no regulation. It also looks like its an EDC type light, but when you see how big those 1C Mags are you realize this thing is much bigger than the picture. For $200 I rather have the Dereelight DBS w/SST-90 by NB with 2.8A driver.


I agree completely. I've decided that anything over 1x14500 is too big to EDC comfortably, which is why I've been taking a hard look at CR123 lights. And anything I don't EDC might as well be in Mag size with some serious output, I would look in the 24-35w HID range. Something like http://www.batteryjunction.com/n30-3161.html would be a good option, very cheap as well. You should test one of the lower-end HIDs sometime, or would they melt a hole in the styrofoam sphere?


----------



## psychbeat

So I got sum AS 5 n SLATHERED up the outside of my NB sst50
drop-in and both sides of the aluminum strip Ive been jamming in my
C2. My pill is locktited and it seemed like it would be a hassle to 
break it loose to add the AS5 to the threads. Im wondering if it was an
important part of the slathering process:ironic:

Its pretty messy now so I hope not...

its also really cold in my house - 49 deg so
Im having a hard time testing if the host is warming up more
than usual.. its a regulated 2.5 and never really gets that hot.

smothered n covered....:thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

psychbeat said:


> So I got sum AS 5 n SLATHERED up the outside of my NB sst50
> drop-in and both sides of the aluminum strip Ive been jamming in my
> C2. My pill is locktited and it seemed like it would be a hassle to
> break it loose to add the AS5 to the threads. Im wondering if it was an
> important part of the slathering process:ironic:
> 
> Its pretty messy now so I hope not...
> 
> its also really cold in my house - 49 deg so
> Im having a hard time testing if the host is warming up more
> than usual.. its a regulated 2.5 and never really gets that hot.
> 
> smothered n covered....:thumbsup:


 
I think the main heatsinking benefits of the AS5 are to apply it on the actual threads. I just rubbed the AS5 on the outside to dry my fingers off. Since I was going to use soap to wash my hands I might as well salvage the left over AS5 on the outside of the bezel, but I don't think it matters.

I can un-screw the pill from the reflector with some force, but I will admitt I have some slightly higher than normal strengh, so don't feel bad. After you man handle the pill out I removed the gunk (glue) that nailbender uses from the threads both on the pill and reflector because that glue is not conductive and you will notice it might not light up when you re-assemble it. MrGman actually pointed that out to me as I was scratching my head as to why the SST-50 wouldn't work after I put a smooth reflector. It was the dam glue.


----------



## psychbeat

rad thanks!
ill scrape off +save whats on there so I can get sum grip 
on er n then reapply.
Ill make a scratch in it before taking apart so
I know how far to screw it back in.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

I have been scrolling through this thread to find some discussion re the Malkoff M30 you tested with a AW 17670 and an IMR 16340. Quite a difference in startup lumens between the two, the IMR 16340 showing about 100 lumens more output, and holding quite well through the 4 minute run, considering the reduced heat sinking ability of the little VME body. Was wondering if some of the difference is the twisty setup of the VME body, providing little or no resistance compared to the 17670 body tailcap setup. Might be interesting to test the M30 in a Malkoff MD2 with the Kroll switch switched out for a stock Incandescent Mini mag AA tailcap, which will fit, and a LiCo 18650 Li-Ion and an IMR 18650. That almost 300 lumen output for the M30 in the VME body with the IMR 16340 was very interesting.  

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

Bullzeyebill said:


> I have been scrolling through this thread to find some discussion re the Malkoff M30 you tested with a AW 17670 and an IMR 16340. Quite a difference in startup lumens between the two, the IMR 16340 showing about 100 lumens more output, and holding quite well through the 4 minute run, considering the reduced heat sinking ability of the little VME body. Was wondering if some of the difference is the twisty setup of the VME body, providing little or no resistance compared to the 17670 body tailcap setup. Might be interesting to test the M30 in a Malkoff MD2 with the Kroll switch switched out for a stock Incandescent Mini mag AA tailcap, which will fit, and a LiCo 18650 Li-Ion and an IMR 18650. That almost 300 lumen output for the M30 in the VME body with the IMR 16340 was very interesting.
> 
> Bill


 
Bill,

I am still trying to decipher what happened there. My plan is to test the VME M30 with AS5 first, then I will try it with another hosts. I will try the M30 in a 6P hosts with the same AW 17670 cell with a Surefire 6P twistie to see if part of the problem is the E-series clickies.

More to come


----------



## joshconsulting

I love how real world readings, instead of reducing everything to nice, simple results introduce more variables and uncertainty then theoretical mathematics. But at least we know the base numbers we're working off of. I'm doing my best to avoid filling this thread with multi-page posts full of endless, rambling speculation, but it's a challenge at times


----------



## psychbeat

I just got really messy scraping all the glue off of the pill
on my NB SST-50 and added more AS 5 to the threads.
I forgot to make marks on the pill and reflector -
so I just screwed it all of the way in.
there's no rings so I guess its ok?
I filled the little groove that runs around the outside of
the reflector and stuffed another slathered aluminum 
sheet in there. 

what a mess- its on my hardwood floor next to my bed:sick2:!

it does heat up faster now tho for sure..

if I get a turbo head at some point Ill just buy a new
drop=in rather than trying to take this one apart and
leabing grey fingerprints allover my house n phone n 
keyboard n.....
:twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

I just tested these huge P7 and MC-E lights. Not exactly 700 lumens, but at least they have a nice beam with good throw. I used topped off cells on these and only the Reflex had a UCL lens.


The New Reflex light I actually tested it with a AW 18650 and 2 CR123 Primaries, but the lumens were identical.

*I have to fix the Reflex LED type, they are 3 Rebel LED's.*


----------



## LeifUK

Excellent information but the black on green font is almost unreadable as it is so small and lacks contrast.


----------



## bigchelis

LeifUK said:


> Excellent information but the black on green font is almost unreadable as it is so small and lacks contrast.


 

It was worse before

There is very little options when it comes to uploading a spreadsheet to this forum. I have exausted all possible options and this one seems to be the easiest, but its not perfect.


----------



## joshconsulting

bigchelis said:


> It was worse before
> 
> There is very little options when it comes to uploading a spreadsheet to this forum. I have exausted all possible options and this one seems to be the easiest, but its not perfect.



To be honest, I preferred plain text to this. At least it was searching. But the Google Docs link does somewhat solve the problem, and screenshots look nice. Making the images larger or with less info per square inch would make them more readable.


----------



## KDOG3

Wasn't there a LX2 measurement somewhere?


----------



## ray2010

I'm interested in the EagleTac P20A2 vs. the Dereelight Javelin on 2AA and 3AA. You have the lumens recorded. By any chance, do you have the lux readings at 5m or 1m? Thanks!


----------



## bigchelis

Hi all,

I have an a rare Malkoff M30 that keeps giving me 1.6A~1.8A at the tail with a single li-on cell. Is this normal, I think not. last year I had 2 other M30's and they were 1~1.2A at the tail, but this one was purchased about 4 months ago.

I keep getting about 300 OTF lumens in my 6P, VME Twistie hosts, and UBH body. If I use a E1b clickie I still get 300ish OTF lumens on turn-on, but when I put a Surefire HA Gray E-series clickie I get around 100 less lumens or more. Now, If I leave the HA Gray E-series clickie on and twist to turn-on the light (while using the UbH body with AW 17670) I get back to the usual 300ish OTF lumens. I didn't realize the E-series clickies could have that much resistance.







*Are any of you getting that much current at the tail with your M30?*


----------



## FroggyTaco

Want me to send you my about 4 month old M30 to test?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

I am getting 1.25 or so Amp draw with my M30 using a single LiCo LiIon. You have a seriously high amp draw M30, which is not bad, but needs good heat sinking. The IMR RCR123 is certainly able to handle the high draw, and will obviously give better runtime than the LiCo RCR123. Twisty will out do a clicky, any day, for less resistance, which will equal more runtime with the M60 series, and more output for the M30. The VME twisty should even have less resistance due to not having a spring at the tail end.

Bill


----------



## Justin Case

I put mine on a lab bench supply. At 3.7V, I get about 1.4A draw. At 4V, I get about 1.6A. What Li-ion are you using? The less voltage sag that you get, the higher the tail current draw.


----------



## bigchelis

Justin Case said:


> I put mine on a lab bench supply. At 3.7V, I get about 1.4A draw. At 4V, I get about 1.6A. What Li-ion are you using? The less voltage sag that you get, the higher the tail current draw.


 

I am using IMR 16340 by AW
AW 17670 li-on
AW 2600 mAh, 18650

The current is nearly identical on all when I use E1b clickie or 6P twistie stock.


----------



## FroggyTaco

I am seeing 1.434A draw.
The resting voltage of the AW 18650 2.6 is 4.030.

Travis


----------



## Bullzeyebill

In your first post, this thread, you posted 1.60A using the AW 17670 in a UBH body. Using the VME Twisty body you posted 1.1-1.2A's with AW's IMR 16340. The Malkoff M30 is drawing more amperage with a LiPo 17670 than the IMR 16340, of course different bodies.

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

Bullzeyebill said:


> In your first post, this thread, you posted 1.60A using the AW 17670 in a UBH body. Using the VME Twisty body you posted 1.1-1.2A's with AW's IMR 16340. The Malkoff M30 is drawing more amperage with a LiPo 17670 than the IMR 16340, of course different bodies.
> 
> Bill


 

In the 1st post I used the UBH body and stuck the IMR 16340 in there and got 1.2A. Then I put it in my 6P and got 1.6~1.7A, technically I can't measure the current in the Malkoff VME Twistie so I put the least minimun current which was obtained using a UBH body with spacer.

I re-tested the current with the same UBH and AW 17670 and I still get 1.7A. But when I use the IMR 16340 + the 17670 UBH Spacer my current is 1.3A or back to the lower numbers I saw when I made the 1st post. I put the single CR123 spacer + IMR 16340 in the UBH body and the current is back up to 1.6A:shrug:

Are the UBH spacer suppose to mess with the current? I didn't think so, but I keep getting less current at the tail with the bigger spacers

I have to go back and fix the 1st post because although with UBH and 17670 spacer I get 1.2A max, in the VME Twistie body I bet its closer to 1.6~1.8A like it is in my 6P.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

Re: my M30 with high current....

I just got some Ultralast Green AA Ni-Zn cells with 1.6V each. I put 2 of them in my UBH E-series body with 3.5v~3.8V input and I get 1A steady at the tail:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

Now my lumens are less, but consistant with what is expected at the new lower voltage input.

Test hosts had the UBH body w/Malkoff VME/ plus E1b clickie.
1 sec = 220.8
30 sec = 206.2
1 min = 198.5
2 min = 196.2
3 min = 196.2
4 min = 193.1


----------



## psychbeat

Ive been using some NIZN AA batts in one of my headlamps
and they're holding up great!
I like that the voltage is closer to alky and the 
runtime seems pretty good too.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

bc, try that with some Eneloops.

Bill


----------



## Bullzeyebill

bigchelis said:


> In the 1st post I used the UBH body and stuck the IMR 16340 in there and got 1.2A. Then I put it in my 6P and got 1.6~1.7A, technically I can't measure the current in the Malkoff VME Twistie so I put the least minimun current which was obtained using a UBH body with spacer.
> 
> I re-tested the current with the same UBH and AW 17670 and I still get 1.7A. But when I use the IMR 16340 + the 17670 UBH Spacer my current is 1.3A or back to the lower numbers I saw when I made the 1st post. I put the single CR123 spacer + IMR 16340 in the UBH body and the current is back up to 1.6A:shrug:
> 
> Are the UBH spacer suppose to mess with the current? I didn't think so, but I keep getting less current at the tail with the bigger spacers
> 
> I have to go back and fix the 1st post because although with UBH and 17670 spacer I get 1.2A max, in the VME Twistie body I bet its closer to 1.6~1.8A like it is in my 6P.
> 
> bigC



Interesting. What are you using for a spacer? Mine is a SF branded spacer that appears to be solid aluminum.

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

Bullzeyebill said:


> Interesting. What are you using for a spacer? Mine is a SF branded spacer that appears to be solid aluminum.
> 
> Bill


 

I have the Dspec UBH E-series complete system that you get spacers along with the 9P type body.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/d.speck/UBH-Infopage/


----------



## recDNA

Since I got no reply about the L2M I went with the L2 in gunmetal. Hope I made the right move.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> Since I got no reply about the L2M I went with the L2 in gunmetal. Hope I made the right move.


 


Those are good hosts and they offer gun metal 18650 extentions too.


Make sure to get the flat stainless bezel and UCL lens to make it better.


----------



## recDNA

Terrific duh I thought it took 18650 as is. 
It actually says:

Solarforce L2
Uses a P60 dropin that allows for virtually limitless options in output and design
This build your own package begins at a base price for the host only, options such as dropin, battery and charger should be added to suit your own needs

*Host includes:*

Solarforce L2-CH Tactical Head
Solarforce Battery Tube, fits 1x18650, 2xCR123, 2xRCR123
Solarforce L2-S1 Reverse Click Tailcap

*So why do I need an extension tube? Or...do you mean to facilitate 2 X 18650?*


I did buy the SS bezel but not the lens. Does SB sell the lenses too?


----------



## Justin Case

bigchelis said:


> In the 1st post I used the UBH body and stuck the IMR 16340 in there and got 1.2A. Then I put it in my 6P and got 1.6~1.7A, technically I can't measure the current in the Malkoff VME Twistie so I put the least minimun current which was obtained using a UBH body with spacer.
> 
> I re-tested the current with the same UBH and AW 17670 and I still get 1.7A. But when I use the IMR 16340 + the 17670 UBH Spacer my current is 1.3A or back to the lower numbers I saw when I made the 1st post. I put the single CR123 spacer + IMR 16340 in the UBH body and the current is back up to 1.6A:shrug:
> 
> Are the UBH spacer suppose to mess with the current? I didn't think so, but I keep getting less current at the tail with the bigger spacers
> 
> I have to go back and fix the 1st post because although with UBH and 17670 spacer I get 1.2A max, in the VME Twistie body I bet its closer to 1.6~1.8A like it is in my 6P.
> 
> bigC



I'm not sure I follow the various combos that you've examined.

I thought that the UBH was a single piece host with a battery tube about 100mm long, to fit 3x123A or other combos that add up to ~100mm.

How do you get a "single CR123 spacer + IMR 16340" to fit in the UBH? Similarly, how do you get "UBH and AW 17670" to fit? In both cases, it would seem that you are still short by a 123A spacer.

Is your UBH actually 2x123A in length, with a 1x123A extender piece? If that's the case, that's probably why an "IMR 16340 + the 17670 UBH Spacer" gives you only 1.3A.


----------



## bigchelis

Justin Case said:


> I'm not sure I follow the various combos that you've examined.
> 
> I thought that the UBH was a single piece host with a battery tube about 100mm long, to fit 3x123A or other combos that add up to ~100mm.
> 
> How do you get a "single CR123 spacer + IMR 16340" to fit in the UBH? Similarly, how do you get "UBH and AW 17670" to fit? In both cases, it would seem that you are still short by a 123A spacer.
> 
> Is your UBH actually 2x123A in length, with a 1x123A extender piece? If that's the case, that's probably why an "IMR 16340 + the 17670 UBH Spacer" gives you only 1.3A.


 

I can fit the single CR123 spacer + the IMR 16340 to test for current only and I cant use it like that with the tailcap.

The UBH E-series is in fact a 9P size with a bunch of dummy cells to run virtually any cell combo, but as I have found out using the 2 cr123 size dummy cell + IMR 16340 cell gives me less current and less OTF lumens. 


Honestly; I am having trouble keeping track of all the numerous combos I have tried already too.


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force is helping me with my spreadsheet picture quality. 

Check out the 1st post for a sample.. It looks like it should be easier on the eyes.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> ti-force is helping me with my spreadsheet picture quality.
> 
> Check out the 1st post for a sample.. It looks like it should be easier on the eyes.


 
I have no problem reading them even on my Droid screen Someday it will be nice when you can use a chart with text so it is easier to search for data.


----------



## jabe1

recDNA said:


> Terrific duh I thought it took 18650 as is.
> It actually says:
> 
> Solarforce L2
> Uses a P60 dropin that allows for virtually limitless options in output and design
> This build your own package begins at a base price for the host only, options such as dropin, battery and charger should be added to suit your own needs
> 
> *Host includes:*
> 
> Solarforce L2-CH Tactical Head
> Solarforce Battery Tube, fits 1x18650, 2xCR123, 2xRCR123
> Solarforce L2-S1 Reverse Click Tailcap
> 
> *So why do I need an extension tube? Or...do you mean to facilitate 2 X 18650?*
> 
> 
> I did buy the SS bezel but not the lens. Does SB sell the lenses too?



Yes, to be enable use of 2X18650. Lso BigC is right, get the UCL lense and stainless flat bezel. :thumbsup:


----------



## daberti

@Bigchelis

I wonder if it is possible to have EagleTac T20C2 MkII readings at medium output

TIA


----------



## Justin Case

bigchelis said:


> I can fit the single CR123 spacer + the IMR 16340 to test for current only and I cant use it like that with the tailcap.
> 
> The UBH E-series is in fact a 9P size with a bunch of dummy cells to run virtually any cell combo, but as I have found out using the 2 cr123 size dummy cell + IMR 16340 cell gives me less current and less OTF lumens.
> 
> 
> Honestly; I am having trouble keeping track of all the numerous combos I have tried already too.



I thought you were getting the lower tail current measurement with the IMR16340 + 17670 spacer.


----------



## recDNA

jabe1 said:


> Yes, to be enable use of 2X18650. Lso BigC is right, get the UCL lense and stainless flat bezel. :thumbsup:


 
I see they have one almost the right size at flashlightlens. I'll measure my lens when I get it to be sure. I doubt I'd ever go to 2 X 18650 unless a SST-50 pill comes out that produces a nice round beam sans artifacts from the L2.


----------



## bigchelis

daberti said:


> @Bigchelis
> 
> I wonder if it is possible to have EagleTac T20C2 MkII readings at medium output
> 
> TIA


 

I dont have the Eagletacs anymore they were loaners only for testing.


----------



## bigchelis

Justin Case said:


> I thought you were getting the lower tail current measurement with the IMR16340 + 17670 spacer.


 


The lower current was with the IMR16340 + 17670 spacer

You say tomatoe I say tomato:laughing:


IMR 16340 + 2cr123 size spacer = same difference I think


----------



## Justin Case

"2 cr123 size dummy cell + IMR 16340 cell"

Confusing terminology. It sounded as if you were using two spacers, which could increase your parasitic resistance, leading to lower current draw. 17670 spacer <> 2 CR123 spacer, except for length.


----------



## bigchelis

Justin Case said:


> "2 cr123 size dummy cell + IMR 16340 cell"
> 
> Confusing terminology. It sounded as if you were using two spacers, which could increase your parasitic resistance, leading to lower current draw. 17670 spacer <> 2 CR123 spacer, except for length.


 

Yeah, I know.....but if you look at my new graph I still have the current backwards on them Got to fix the new spreadsheet now. :laughing:


----------



## daberti

bigchelis said:


> I dont have the Eagletacs anymore they were loaners only for testing.


 
I see 
Thanks anyway


----------



## ma_sha1

Big C, The new table looks awesome :thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

Hi folks,

Thanks to Aaron I now have 7 custom Surefire E-series lights to test. This is the holly grail of customs with SST-50, SST-90, K2, MC-E's in warm flavors and much much more.

I don't have the OTF readings yet, but here is something to let you know what I mean...


----------



## joshconsulting

I envy you. So much. I expect OTF readings in the next hour or two. I will be waiting :scowl:


----------



## bigchelis

Well here are my 1st couple lights tested. I have never seen MC-E or SST-50's behind a stock Surefire TiR Optic, yet they focus and look perfect. 

The MC-E Warm K-bins may not be lumen mosters but dam do they have a near perfect flawless beam, not to mention they are L4 type Surefires too.


----------



## Justin Case

What kind of beam pattern do you get with the mod'ed U2 Ultra? Is the beam wider than stock, which I measured to be about the same as a standard P60 drop-in? I would expect much more of a flood beam, vs with the Seoul P4. What hot spot lux do you get with the MC-E?

Unless you really want a flood beam, it would seem to me that an XP-G is a better choice, especially now that they are available in warm and neutral tints (neutral tint available in R5 flux bin). My XP-G R4 mod has a 40% brighter hot spot vs stock.


----------



## joshconsulting

OK, what's with the 803 lumens OTF reading coming from a SST-90 @ 2.6A? The SST-90 is roughly the same or slightly less then the SST-50 at 1-5A, why is it pushing so many more lumens then everything else at that amp reading?

I, too, am interested in the TIR optics - do you have any way to get the lux readings for the SST-50\90 Lumamaxes?


----------



## Egsise

bigchelis said:


> Well here are my 1st couple lights tested. I have never seen MC-E or SST-50's behind a stock Surefire TiR Optic, yet they focus and look perfect.
> 
> The MC-E Warm K-bins may not be lumen mosters but dam do they have a near perfect flawless beam, not to mention they are L4 type Surefires too.


Warm or neutral white MC-E?
You say warm but there's neutral in the spreadsheet?


----------



## MrGman

That 800 lumen reading from the SST-90 with 2 CR123 primaries seems just too good to be true? Didn't know you could pull 2.6 amps out of primaries. Would like to see beam comparison of all of those. Where is the ole backyard of truth when I need it? 

Got to find a way to get some good comparative beamshots of those things big C. 

Great work by the way.


----------



## joshconsulting

Wait a minute. Were you measuring amperage under 4.2v or 6v? If it was 6v, 2.6A x 6v = 15.6W, 2.6A x 4.2v = 10.9W. Could explain the output differences. [email protected] = [email protected]



> Didn't know you could pull 2.6 amps out of primaries.


Apparently, well-built primaries can handle 2-4C, 3-6A. Seems hard to believe, not much info on primary amperage capacity.


----------



## Egsise

The 1 sec readings are interesting but pointless imho, the 30sec-3min readings give much better readings what to compare.


----------



## bigchelis

I can take lux readings later on tonight and see if I can sneak some time for beamshoots. 

The current I took was under no load. 

AaronM sent me his collection of lights with a sheet sheet describing them, on some MC-E's he put warm on others neutral indicating to me less lumens than cool white variants, but more importantly the tint change.

I have seen other E-series mods with XP-G or R2 behind the TIR Optic, but never an SST--50 or MC-E and to have them focus with no uggly donut is beyond me.


----------



## bigchelis

Here are the last 3 lights tested. 

The KL4 bezel which housed the Ostar 6 die was smoking hot and turned off on its own at 2.5minutes which is good cause I could barely hold it due to heat. After 1 minute of cooldown it turned back on and the lumens were back to normal, but I dont want to take the risk of damaging it so 1~2 minute readings is it.

The K2 L4 light is pushing only half an amp with 2 primaries and has a McR20 reflector with SOB1200 driver.


----------



## bigchelis

Justin Case said:


> What kind of beam pattern do you get with the mod'ed U2 Ultra? Is the beam wider than stock, which I measured to be about the same as a standard P60 drop-in? I would expect much more of a flood beam, vs with the Seoul P4. What hot spot lux do you get with the MC-E?
> 
> Unless you really want a flood beam, it would seem to me that an XP-G is a better choice, especially now that they are available in warm and neutral tints (neutral tint available in R5 flux bin). My XP-G R4 mod has a 40% brighter hot spot vs stock.


 


I don't have a stock U2 to compare, but AaronM got the MC-E working with the mult-level driver and it works just like stock. The warm MC-E makes it a real bonus and the hotspot is very small, but not intense bright like those R2 P60 drop-ins. I will definitely get lux readings and a beamshoot on this one. This one also has a tiny x in the center of the beamshoot that is slightly noticeable.


----------



## sfca

Somebody send it one of Thrunites 1.5A XPG drop-ins!

Whats up with the original drop-ins eh? First 260, then 230 and here I see 190..
Makes me wonder if I should grab the first batch.


----------



## bigchelis

sfca said:


> Somebody send it one of Thrunites 1.5A XPG drop-ins!
> 
> Whats up with the original drop-ins eh? First 260, then 230 and here I see 190..
> Makes me wonder if I should grab the first batch.


 

I would like to test a 1.5A version see if it finally helps them make 300 OTF.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Justin Case said:


> Unless you really want a flood beam, it would seem to me that an XP-G is a better choice, especially now that they are available in warm and neutral tints (neutral tint available in R5 flux bin).


Are you sure? Who sells an XP-G drop-in with a warm beam?


----------



## FroggyTaco

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Are you sure? Who sells an XP-G drop-in with a warm beam?



http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=218933

And this announcement:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/266104


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I would like to test a 1.5A version see if it finally helps them make 300 OTF.


 

I'm REALLY interested in this one! I hope someone sends you one to test sooner rather than later. I need a single mode P60 and I was just about to order the Dereelight R5 for single 18650 before I read about this Thrunite drop in.

I wonder if two AA Lithium L91 primaries can provide the 1.5 amps needed to run this critter? If it's good I could put it in an L2 or a Javelin.


----------



## RichS

Thanks for including serveral popular incan hotwires in this bigchelis! For the WA 1111 listing, I think you meant to say SureFire 9P, as a 6P wouldn't hold 2x18500s. 

Is there any way we could get the incan lumen charts posted or even sticky'd in the incandescent forum? It's the first I've seen these, but I didn't think to look on the LED forum for incan lumen readings.

Thanks again for your work!

-Rich


----------



## bigchelis

RichS said:


> Thanks for including serveral popular incan hotwires in this bigchelis! For the WA 1111 listing, I think you meant to say SureFire 9P, as a 6P wouldn't hold 2x18500s.
> 
> Is there any way we could get the incan lumen charts posted or even sticky'd in the incandescent forum? It's the first I've seen these, but I didn't think to look on the LED forum for incan lumen readings.
> 
> Thanks again for your work!
> 
> -Rich


 

Rich,

The 6P was 18650 bored and had a Solarforce Extention 18mm size. This is how I was able to test it with 2 18500 cells.

I can put them up in the Incan section for you. I take the advise of all and try to follow the good suggestions. I re-tested all my ROP and WA85 Mag builds with a thin 8mm reflector oppening to prove it made no difference in OTF lumens vs. the 16mm KD V3 reflectors. A ton of work, but it proved in my builds that at least the size of the hole in the reflector didnt affect OTF. 

bigC


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

OK, so we can't yet buy a warm drop-in...but at least the warm emitters have been released.



FroggyTaco said:


> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=218933
> 
> And this announcement:
> 
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/266104


----------



## daimleramg

bigchelis said:


> I would like to test a 1.5A version see if it finally helps them make 300 OTF.


 

I would like to see the results too, but I wonder if it will still perform with one 18650 @4.2V or will it need atleast 6V to achieve max output? Reason I'm bringing this up is because Solarforce's drivers that allow 2 or more li-ion cells seem to behave that way.


----------



## bigchelis

daimleramg said:


> I would like to see the results too, but I wonder if it will still perform with one 18650 @4.2V or will it need atleast 6V to achieve max output? Reason I'm bringing this up is because Solarforce's drivers that allow 2 or more li-ion cells seem to behave that way.


 

I have a sample comming soon:thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

I decided to add the beamshoots of AaronM's Custom lights here. I took 5 meter and 1 meter shoots. Exposure was identical for both, but I tried to find the sweet spot for the 1 meter to show the beam shape.

*Here is the SF III*








*Here is the Surefire U2 with MC-E*








*Surefire KL4 with 6die Osram*








*Surefire KL4 K2 TFFC McR20 reflector *


----------



## bigchelis

*KL4 MC-E K-bin Neutral with reflector and stock driver*









*Surefire Milky Gossamer MC-E with stock TirOptic*









*Surefire L2 SSR-50 on L1 bezel*








*Surefire L2 SST-90 *


----------



## recDNA

BigC,

Could you tell me the method you use when measuring lux with a luxmeter? (yes I understand measuring lumens is a different matter but you do sometimes measure lux as well).

Do you simply place the flashlight 1 meter from a white wall, turn it on high, then aim the light meter (I assume also 1 meter away from wall?) at the spot on the wall?

Thanks


----------



## Superorb

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Is there somewhere where you tested the 3-mode drop-ins on medium and low as well? I'm finding it impossible to hunt down a drop-in with the output numbers I'm looking for.


----------



## one2tim

Wow! Less then 400 lumen from the sf-III. Back then in the sales thread there were talk about almost 1000 lumen, and when i finally got it and compared it to some other lights i Got kinda disapointed. This explains it.


----------



## bigchelis

one2tim said:


> Wow! Less then 400 lumen from the sf-III. Back then in the sales thread there were talk about almost 1000 lumen, and when i finally got it and compared it to some other lights i Got kinda disapointed. This explains it.


 

I actually expected it. MrGman tested 2 high dollar Osram 6 die lights in the past and they were equally dissapointing. In fact, any Osram LED light me or him have tested has always been less than stellar.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> BigC,
> 
> Could you tell me the method you use when measuring lux with a luxmeter? (yes I understand measuring lumens is a different matter but you do sometimes measure lux as well).
> 
> Do you simply place the flashlight 1 meter from a white wall, turn it on high, then aim the light meter (I assume also 1 meter away from wall?) at the spot on the wall?
> 
> Thanks


 


I don't do 1 meter readings.... I only do 5 meter readings and calculate for 1 meter. I put the Lux Meter exactly 5 meters away and since my meter captures and holds the highest value I take a minute or so untill it captures the highest lux.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



Superorb said:


> Is there somewhere where you tested the 3-mode drop-ins on medium and low as well? I'm finding it impossible to hunt down a drop-in with the output numbers I'm looking for.


 

The reason I don't test for Med or Low is because only the high numbers are the exagarated lumens and for some reason even those DX lights are honest when they advertise the low and med.

When you see a light advertise Med and Low lumens they pretty much are honest there because underdriven a particular LED will be almost perfect paper spec lumens and with low output comes less heat. With Less heat the lumens stay put, unlike the high modes where it drops. In a nutshell this is why I don't test for low or med. 

bigC


----------



## Superorb

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> The reason I don't test for Med or Low is because only the high numbers are the exagarated lumens and for some reason even those DX lights are honest when they advertise the low and med.
> 
> When you see a light advertise Med and Low lumens they pretty much are honest there because underdriven a particular LED will be almost perfect paper spec lumens and with low output comes less heat. With Less heat the lumens stay put, unlike the high modes where it drops. In a nutshell this is why I don't test for low or med.
> 
> bigC


I understand that, but usually I can't even find output numbers for med/low modes on P60 drop-ins, they only mention the max on high.


----------



## recDNA

Hey BigC. This is an amazing resource. Have you asked the mods to make it a sticky?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> Hey BigC. This is an amazing resource. Have you asked the mods to make it a sticky?


 
Not yet,

I will ask as soon as I get 100 samples tested:laughing:


----------



## jhc37013

Hey bigchelis this is great stuff please keep up the great work, any chance you will get a chance to test the E2DL 200lm version just by ceiling bounce I guess it is around 240-250 but would love some real data.

I love that E2L at 110 lumens and keeping it throughout the 4min test and I always assumed the stock U2 to be around 140 looks like I was close.

Come to think about it a stock E1B on primary would be cool to, sorry to ask to increase your workload if it's even possible you can get these to test but you do such a great job and this should for sure be a sticky, its classic already.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> Not yet,
> 
> I will ask as soon as I get 100 samples tested:laughing:


 
Well if you are looking for things to get you there I'd be curious to see some of the exact same measurements you did with the L2 with special coated lens compared to the stock lens that comes with the L2. 

Why do you think the Malkoff M30 with the little VME twistie you tested with one 16340 produced more lumens than the same Malkoff drop in in a conventional host?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> Well if you are looking for things to get you there I'd be curious to see some of the exact same measurements you did with the L2 with special coated lens compared to the stock lens that comes with the L2.
> 
> Why do you think the Malkoff M30 with the little VME twistie you tested with one 16340 produced more lumens than the same Malkoff drop in in a conventional host?


 

It did about the same in the 6P vs. the Malkoff Twistie. It only did bad in the UBH E-series hosts due to the lower current via the dummy cell in place plus the gray HA E-series clickie. *I later ran the same test on the UBH with the same 17670 cell and an E1b tail cap and the lumens went up about 100.*


----------



## bigchelis

The M30 I have I realized or learned 2 important things.

The E-series clikie was doing something that the OTF lumens dropped 100ish..
2nd using long dummy cells like the 17670 + IMR 16340 = less current at the tail.
Now, don't ask me why but when I swaped the tailcap for an E1b and used only 1 CR123 dummy spacer both the current at the tail and the lumens were closer to 300 like it is with the 6P and Twistie by Malkof.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

Here are a couple more. I got the new Nailbender XP-E R3 drop-in and the new Thrunite XP-G R5 drop-in with 1.5A claimed. It does 1.35A at the tail with a single cell so not sure if it hits the 1.5A at the LED, but the OTF lumens show good things.

*Thrunite is back with a vengeance.*


----------



## recDNA

How about with 1 X IMR18650? I don't like using an extender.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> How about with 1 X IMR18650? I don't like using an extender.


 



I have the results as I tested it with many cell configurations and topping them off after each test takes a while. I also have a 2nd sample to test to make it complete.

Updates hopefully tonight.

bigC


----------



## MrGman

big C tell us more about the thrunite with the 1.5 amp driver. Waht's its full voltage rating and where can we get that. Thanks, and keep up the good work but don't melt down that sphere testing them stinkin incans. G.


----------



## sfca

I thought that with Anto's 1.4A XPG P60, running this with CR123a's wouldn't be recommended.

Waiting on an answer/reply but if it turns out not so (logic would tell me it is so) then this looks like a good deal!

In that case if there's an easy aftermarket-Optic kit (or any way to increase throw) please let me know!!!







FlashCrazy said:


> The input voltage range is 2.7-9 volts. However, *to get full output you need to use 2 x CR123a or 2 x RCR123 batteries.* With a single 18650, the output will be down about 25-30% and will not be regulated.
> ThruNite will soon release a version that will give full output on a single 18650, but will have a max allowed voltage of 4.2V. This version will first be available in the 3 mode option.



Does the above mean BigChelis has the above noted version or that the one tested isn't _really _running at full output?


----------



## Superorb

MrGman said:


> big C tell us more about the thrunite with the 1.5 amp driver. Waht's its full voltage rating and where can we get that. Thanks, and keep up the good work but don't melt down that sphere testing them stinkin incans. G.


Flashlight Connection sells the Dereelight/Thrunite drop-ins. They're a vendor here.


----------



## MrGman

Superorb said:


> Flashlight Connection sells the Dereelight/Thrunite drop-ins. They're a vendor here.


 

I found it there. so the question is does the Thrunite XPG pill fit into the Dereelight V3 flashlight that takes the Dereelight XPG? Or is it incompatible. The dereelight XPG for the V3 is 1.2 amps. would be interesting to run this and keep the Dereelight XPG for back up. ???

Thanks big C.


----------



## 357mag1

In Jay's thread on the Thrunite XP-G 1.5A he mentioned it would not be full bright running on one Li-ion cell. 
Looks like it is doing pretty well in these test.


----------



## joshconsulting

Jose, I think we need to find a better way of measuring lux. The inverse square law is designed to work in a theoretical world with an infinitely small point source, not real-world physics with a large source. The more focused the thrower and larger the reflector\less collimation of the beam the farther off the lux readings will be. Additionally, focusing issues with beam crossing and diverging light patterns could be messing up the results. All of those are helped with 5 meter readings instead of 1 meter (hence why they better mirrior real-world objective results) but even a 5 meter reading could be off by a significant amount (10%+). The most obvious way to increase accuracy would be by measuring lux from a farther distance, but ambient light issues would start to cloud the accuracy of results. It may be that we need to adjust lux readings based on the ratio of light source diameter vs. hotspot diameter at, say, 10 meters. We would also have to add an exception for lights with over-focused beams with reverse-divergent collimation. The most accurate possible method would be to measure the lux at the intended target distance and adjust backwords to a 1m reading, but depending on the accuracy of your meter and availibility of a large, open, dark area, that may be difficult or impossible.

Just a few thoughts I figured I'd throw out.

Also, do you feel like testing an AKOray K-106? It's 2.2 oz including battery, so I can send it across the country for less then a dollar. I'm betting it makes 155-160 OTF. My Quark MiNi 123 with RCRs is awesome, so I won't miss the light while your testing, and shipping is dirt cheap (<$2 both ways) so I can pick up the tab. Lux readings would be nice as well, it seems to be a reasonably impressive thrower.


----------



## 276

MrGman said:


> I found it there. so the question is does the Thrunite XPG pill fit into the Dereelight V3 flashlight that takes the Dereelight XPG? Or is it incompatible. The dereelight XPG for the V3 is 1.2 amps. would be interesting to run this and keep the Dereelight XPG for back up. ???
> 
> Thanks big C.



I don't have one of the new Thrunite XPG drop-in's but i do have the older 3- mode and it does work in my XPG DBS. The threads on the pills are a little different. The pill screws almost all the way in in the DBS but i still have the same beam.


----------



## bigchelis

Todd from Illuminationgear.com sent me 2 Thrunite XP-G R5 1.5A versions for testing. They are here:
http://www.illuminationgear.com/145071.html

They are suppose to be 1.5A, but I have found with a single cell they fall short of 1.5A at the tail. The OTF lumens however are really impressive. 

The voltage is 2.7v~9v, but with a single cell li-on they do not run at full output. I know they are suppose to, but they don't.

I will post all my results shortly.


----------



## bigchelis

I would like to thank Todd from illuminationgear.com for sending me these 2 Thrunite samples. Todd assured me he didn't cherry pick them too.:twothumbs


I don't know if the current at the LED is 1.5A. I also noticed with primaries CR123/RCR 123 type the output was much much less with both the single mode and 3 mode Thrunite drop-ins. This leads me to conclude that the driver works best at 8V input +. Maybe JustinCase can explain this better. 








Note: With a single AW 2600mAh 18650 the light would blink/flash here and there. The 3 mode with primaries and a single AW 2600mAh made that humm Noise. It is actually a loud hummming noise that I am pretty sure we all have heard before.


----------



## bigchelis

The XP-G R5's by Thrunite are now almost 400 real out the front lumens. I still have another amazing light to talk about. The Quark AA XP-G R5 by 4Sevens. MrGman tested it in the past with NiMH AA cell, but I had to re-test it with li-on 14500.

Here is what MrGman tested in the past:
Quark AA mini_High___________68__turn-on_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
Quark AA mini_High___________65__60 sec_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
Quark AA mini_High___________64__120 sec____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
Quark AA mini_Med___________20__turn-on_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
Quark AA mini_Low,____________2.3__turn-on____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,





Here is 300 plus real lumens from a Keychain light:thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

I also tested the ITP collection of XP-E R2 lights. They are new and offer a tiny, but intense hotspot with those smooth reflectors


----------



## daimleramg

daimleramg said:


> I would like to see the results too, but I wonder if it will still perform with one 18650 @4.2V or will it need atleast 6V to achieve max output? Reason I'm bringing this up is because Solarforce's drivers that allow 2 or more li-ion cells seem to behave that way.


 



bigchelis said:


> I have a sample comming soon:thumbsup:


 

I expected it won't run at full power with only one cell, this seems common with broad voltage drivers. I hope there will be a 4.2V max version, that way we can get the same brightness for us guys that like single cell hosts.


----------



## Superorb

357mag1 said:


> In Jay's thread on the Thrunite XP-G 1.5A he mentioned it would not be full bright running on one Li-ion cell.
> Looks like it is doing pretty well in these test.





bigchelis said:


> Todd from Illuminationgear.com sent me 2 Thrunite XP-G R5 1.5A versions for testing. They are here:
> http://www.illuminationgear.com/145071.html
> 
> They are suppose to be 1.5A, but I have found with a single cell they fall short of 1.5A at the tail. The OTF lumens however are really impressive.
> 
> The voltage is 2.7v~9v, but with a single cell li-on they do not run at full output. I know they are suppose to, but they don't.
> 
> I will post all my results shortly.



There's a 2.7-4.2v Drop-in made for 1x18650 coming out later this week that will be full output, I can't wait!!


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I don't do 1 meter readings.... I only do 5 meter readings and calculate for 1 meter. I put the Lux Meter exactly 5 meters away and since my meter captures and holds the highest value I take a minute or so untill it captures the highest lux.


 
So you take the lux figure from 5 meters and multiply it by 25?


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> The XP-G R5's by Thrunite are now almost 400 real out the front lumens. I still have another amazing light to talk about. The Quark AA XP-G R5 by 4Sevens. MrGman tested it in the past with NiMH AA cell, but I had to re-test it with li-on 14500.
> 
> Here is what MrGman tested in the past:
> Quark AA mini_High___________68__turn-on_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
> Quark AA mini_High___________65__60 sec_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
> Quark AA mini_High___________64__120 sec____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
> Quark AA mini_Med___________20__turn-on_____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
> Quark AA mini_Low,____________2.3__turn-on____________1AA Tenergy NiMH___________________________,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is 300 plus real lumens from a Keychain light:thumbsup:


 
300 lumens from the AA Mini? I thought I remembered it being much less with the Mini 123 using an IMR123? Shouldn't that be even brighter than a 14500?


----------



## joshconsulting

I agree with the RCR123 vs 14500. It's hard to believe the 123 is barely making 200 OTF while the 14500 does 323. My 123 draws 1.31A, the AA would have to be pushing 2A to make that much OTF. That's well above the discharge limit for 14500 LiPo cells, and seems like it would burn up an XPG in that small of a host.

Is it possible you got a high vF or faulty 123? Any tailcap readings on the 14500? It seems hard to believe that the lights could vary so wildly - the batteries are the same capacity with similar discharge curves.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> 300 lumens from the AA Mini? I thought I remembered it being much less with the Mini 123 using an IMR123? Shouldn't that be even brighter than a 14500?


 

It should, but remember with a CR123 Mini it is designed for li-on or primaries.....These AA mini's are designed for a much broader voltage input and my guess is it is going direct drive, which is why its sooo bright and hot to the tough.:laughing:


----------



## bigchelis

joshconsulting said:


> I agree with the RCR123 vs 14500. It's hard to believe the 123 is barely making 200 OTF while the 14500 does 323. My 123 draws 1.31A, the AA would have to be pushing 2A to make that much OTF. That's well above the discharge limit for 14500 LiPo cells, and seems like it would burn up an XPG in that small of a host.
> 
> Is it possible you got a high vF or faulty 123? Any tailcap readings on the 14500? It seems hard to believe that the lights could vary so wildly - the batteries are the same capacity with similar discharge curves.


 


I will try and take tailcap readings, but how. Its a twistie on off with no tailcap. 

Anybody can please shed some light on this???? How do you do these tailcap current readings with no tailcap?


----------



## MrGman

bigchelis said:


> It should, but remember with a CR123 Mini it is designed for li-on or primaries.....These AA mini's are designed for a much broader voltage input and my guess is it is going direct drive, which is why its sooo bright and hot to the tough.:laughing:


 

actually I think the AA mini's are designed for a lesser voltage range, not a "broader" voltage range. Probably the reason the mini is so bright with a 3 plus Volt 14500 battery is that the circuit is a boost for voltages from 0.7 up to 1.7 (approximately) and that driving it with 3V or so is going way above the boost. Current does not have to be in the 2 amp range, it only has to be 1.5 amps range, approximately. It could be 1.44 amps, it could be 1.56 amps, maybe 1.62. Doesn't have to be 2 amps to get this output level. 

You run the risk of destroying the driver by continuing to drive something designed to take 1 AA battery with up to 1.7V with a 3V or more lithium ion battery. You won't know till its too late.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> It should, but remember with a CR123 Mini it is designed for li-on or primaries.....These AA mini's are designed for a much broader voltage input and my guess is it is going direct drive, which is why its sooo bright and hot to the tough.:laughing:


 

Oh, it's a Quark Mini AA.

For some reason I thought this was a regular AA Quark, and I was just about to order one if it had that kind of performance. During the 3 minute test, it doesn't look like OTF lumens suffer much at all from the heat. Thermal transfer must be pretty good with that light? I'm guessing you used your hand to draw some heat from the light?


----------



## joshconsulting

MrGman said:


> actually I think the AA mini's are designed for a lesser voltage range, not a "broader" voltage range. Probably the reason the mini is so bright with a 3 plus Volt 14500 battery is that the circuit is a boost for voltages from 0.7 up to 1.7 (approximately) and that driving it with 3V or so is going way above the boost. Current does not have to be in the 2 amp range, it only has to be 1.5 amps range, approximately. It could be 1.44 amps, it could be 1.56 amps, maybe 1.62. Doesn't have to be 2 amps to get this output level.
> 
> You run the risk of destroying the driver by continuing to drive something designed to take 1 AA battery with up to 1.7V with a 3V or more lithium ion battery. You won't know till its too late.



If it was getting 330 OTF with 1.44A, why would a 123 MiNi be getting 200 OTF with 1.31A? Even without thermal issues, it would have to have 2.17A assuming a 1:1 scaling between power and brightness (NOT happening with an XP-G at these levels). If all readings were accurate and mine and your quarks identical, the drive current would likely have to approach 2.5A. That or something was wrong with your MiNi 123.

Jose, it's not too difficult to take tailcap readings. Unscrew the head from the body. Set the head down flat on a level surface. Put the battery in, positive touching the head, and slide it sideways so there's a small gap between the battery and the side of the tube. Take a wire, and push it down snug against the head on the inside of the tube. Use a voltmeter to touch the negative battery contact and the wire. Current will flow from the battery's positive terminal into the head, through the LED, then back out the side of the head through the wire into the voltmeter.

You can see an inner circle and outer circle in the head - the inner circle (where the positive battery contact touches) is positive. The outer circle, which the body tube is designed to make contact with when screwed in tightly, is negative. If you use a wire and voltmeter to complete the circuit between the negative outer circle and the negative battery terminal instead of the body tube, you can get an accurate amp reading.

Sorry if that was confusing. I can try to get a picture if you want.


----------



## sfca

Hmm.. It looks like fully optimized for 18650 or not, CR123s are not the way to go - even for this version. 
Just like Anto's 1.4A drop-in; the drop is quite a lot.

Guess I'll _have _to get a charger come summer.:sigh:

_Any aftermarket Optics around that we can stick on this or any other P60 drop-in?:thinking:
_


bigchelis said:


> I don't know if the current at the LED is 1.5A. I also noticed with primaries CR123/RCR 123 type the output was much much less with both the single mode and 3 mode Thrunite drop-ins. This leads me to conclude that the driver works best at 8V input +.





Superorb said:


> There's a 2.7-4.2v Drop-in made for 1x18650 coming out later this week that will be full output, I can't wait!!


----------



## recDNA

MrGman said:


> actually I think the AA mini's are designed for a lesser voltage range, not a "broader" voltage range. Probably the reason the mini is so bright with a 3 plus Volt 14500 battery is that the circuit is a boost for voltages from 0.7 up to 1.7 (approximately) and that driving it with 3V or so is going way above the boost. Current does not have to be in the 2 amp range, it only has to be 1.5 amps range, approximately. It could be 1.44 amps, it could be 1.56 amps, maybe 1.62. Doesn't have to be 2 amps to get this output level.
> 
> You run the risk of destroying the driver by continuing to drive something designed to take 1 AA battery with up to 1.7V with a 3V or more lithium ion battery. You won't know till its too late.


 
For 300 lumens from a AA mini I'll gladly take the chance of toasting it BUT only if we're absolutely sure that's a correct reading. I'd love to see a beamshot of the AA with 14500 next to the CR123 with IMR123. If the AA mini is much brighter I'm buying one.  Otherwise not.

Now I'd prefer the titanium version but I assume output would suffer with titanium.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*how about 260+ OTF lumens from 1 non-lithium AA?*

Any day now, I'll receive my 3-level Dereelight 0.9-4.2V XPG-R5 drop-in, direct from Dereelight in Asia. I've read, somewhere, that it will draw 1.8A from a AA cell--presumably, from a NiMH cell like a Sanyo Eneloop. Mine will be used in a FiveMega 1xAA body and powered by a nickel-zinc (NiZn) AA cell that should deliver 1.55 to 1.6V under a 1.8A load for the first minute. I hope to see at least 260 out-the-front lumens at 1 minute.

I can't think of another 1xAA body that can accept a P60 drop-in. Can anyone? The only alternative I'm aware of is to use a FiveMega 1x18500 body and fit it with some kind of sleeve to keep the AA from rattling.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: how about 260+ OTF lumens from 1 non-lithium AA?*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Any day now, I'll receive my 3-level Dereelight 0.9-4.2V XPG-R5 drop-in, direct from Dereelight in Asia. I've read, somewhere, that it will draw 1.8A from a AA cell--presumably, from a NiMH cell like a Sanyo Eneloop. Mine will be used in a FiveMega 1xAA body and powered by a nickel-zinc (NiZn) AA cell that should deliver 1.55 to 1.6V under a 1.8A load for the first minute. I hope to see at least 260 out-the-front lumens at 1 minute.
> 
> I can't think of another 1xAA body that can accept a P60 drop-in. Can anyone? The only alternative I'm aware of is to use a FiveMega 1x18500 body and fit it with some kind of sleeve to keep the AA from rattling.


 

From my testing, they do pull 1.8A with a single li-on IMR 18650 or 3 NiMH AA cells. Once the voltage input drops to about 3.8~4v, the current drops to the intended 1.2A and stays pretty much there. 

I was told they go Direct Drive at or near 4.2V input, which it looks like it does.


----------



## bigchelis

Hi all,

I re-tested the Thrunite XP-G R5 1.5A models with 2 IMR 16340 cells to see how they perform. Also, I put Arctic Silver 5 on the threads of the single mode only. This time I put a tiny bit just around the threads because it really is messy stuff. It improved just a tiny bit, not much.


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: how about 260+ OTF lumens from 1 non-lithium AA?*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Any day now, I'll receive my 3-level Dereelight 0.9-4.2V XPG-R5 drop-in, direct from Dereelight in Asia. I've read, somewhere, that it will draw 1.8A from a AA cell--presumably, from a NiMH cell like a Sanyo Eneloop. Mine will be used in a FiveMega 1xAA body and powered by a nickel-zinc (NiZn) AA cell that should deliver 1.55 to 1.6V under a 1.8A load for the first minute. I hope to see at least 260 out-the-front lumens at 1 minute.



1.8A at 1.6V is about 2.9W of power to the LED. Factor in driver efficiency (let's say it is 90% efficient to be generous), and the LED gets about 2.6W of power. Looking at the If vs Vf curve for the XP-G, Vf~3.25V and If~0.8A fits. At 0.8A drive, you'd probably get about 280 emitter lumens, so most likely less than the 260 OTF lumens you desire. But still good output.


----------



## psychbeat

*Re: how about 260+ OTF lumens from 1 non-lithium AA?*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Any day now, I'll receive my 3-level Dereelight 0.9-4.2V XPG-R5 drop-in, direct from Dereelight in Asia. I've read, somewhere, that it will draw 1.8A from a AA cell--presumably, from a NiMH cell like a Sanyo Eneloop. Mine will be used in a FiveMega 1xAA body and powered by a nickel-zinc (NiZn) AA cell that should deliver 1.55 to 1.6V under a 1.8A load for the first minute. I hope to see at least 260 out-the-front lumens at 1 minute.
> 
> I can't think of another 1xAA body that can accept a P60 drop-in. Can anyone? The only alternative I'm aware of is to use a FiveMega 1x18500 body and fit it with some kind of sleeve to keep the AA from rattling.



those are the new low voltage ones that are supposed to work at full 
output with a single 18650 right?
we need to get one of those to BIG C!!
bring on the XPG output wars!!
:devil::devil::devil::devil:


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: how about 260+ OTF lumens from 1 non-lithium AA?*



psychbeat said:


> those are the new low voltage ones that are supposed to work at full
> output with a single 18650 right?
> we need to get one of those to BIG C!!
> bring on the XPG output wars!!
> :devil::devil::devil::devil:


 


I did test the low voltage Dereelight XP-G R5 They go DD with 4.2V and 1.8A at the tail readings were had.


----------



## psychbeat

oooops I was thinking of the low voltage thrunite- still sleepy
long night


----------



## bigchelis

psychbeat said:


> oooops I was thinking of the low voltage thrunite- still sleepy
> long night


 

The low voltage Thrunite XP-G R5 at 1.5A would be interesting to test. Considering the current one is at 400 real OTF lumens....

Maybe someone will send one in.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

I don't think we are going to be able to determine if some of the low voltage XP-G drop ins are running in regulation or DD until we see some longer runtimes to 50%. To many variable here, heat, capacity of cells and their ability to handle current. We need BigWaffles back to do some runtime graphs.

Bill


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> The low voltage Thrunite XP-G R5 at 1.5A would be interesting to test. Considering the current one is at 400 real OTF lumens....
> 
> Maybe someone will send one in.


 
400 lumens - wow ...and I have another brand in the mail - darn.


----------



## bigchelis

I have the Deal Extreme XP-G R5 4~18v drop-in too.


It does 250ish OTF lumens, but the current is really hight at the tail with a single cell and the color shifts to blue. At which point the lumens drop in half. It does this with 2 li-on cells too.


I will try a bit of AS5 see if that helps if so I will post my results.


----------



## jirik_cz

Congrats to Thrunite for 400 turn-on OTF lumens. Unfortunately it looks like the output is dropping pretty quickly.


----------



## recDNA

If the low voltage Thrunite gets 400 lumens from a single IMR18650 I'm in...and out. I'm in for the drop in and out of the house if wifey catches me ordering another P60 when I have one on the way already!


----------



## don.gwapo

recDNA said:


> If the low voltage Thrunite gets 400 lumens from a single IMR18650 I'm in...and out. I'm in for the drop in and out of the house if wifey catches me ordering another P60 when I have one on the way already!


Ha ha same here bro. No wifey but the mom & dad will. .


----------



## ky70

Hello,
can someone explain why the output for the ITP a1 would be so dramtically differen. When powered by the IMR 16340 vs. The RCR123?


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

ky70 said:


> Hello,
> can someone explain why the output for the ITP a1 would be so dramtically differen. When powered by the IMR 16340 vs. The RCR123?


 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/161536

IMR is designed for higher current and suffers less from voltage sag. In the correct application, using IMR can actually yield better mAH even though rated capacity is lower than a comparable conventional RCR123.


----------



## ky70

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/161536
> 
> IMR is designed for higher current and suffers less from voltage sag. In the correct application, using IMR can actually yield better mAH even though rated capacity is lower than a comparable conventional RCR123.


 
Thank you, but I'm still shocked to see that the IMR put out double the output of an RCR. Shouldn't the output be basically the same when put inside a light like the ITP A1? This light shouldn't be powerful enough to show any material differences in output between these two platforms should it? 

I may see the issue here...it says RCR 123 *Primary.* When I see *RCR*, my mind immediately says Li-on rechargeable, but this is likely not a rechargeable based on the output figures (which still seem low even if using primaries).


----------



## bigchelis

a Primary CR123/RCR only has 3V.

An IMR 16340 provides 4.21v input with little if any voltage sag under load. 

The readings happen this way with almost any light tested. Even the Thrunite XP-G R5 1.5A version suffered this fate. Don't worry just get some IMR 16340's and you are good to go. If you like the AW CR123 li-ons those are good too.

bigC


----------



## ekengle

bigchelis said:


> a Primary CR123/RCR only has 3V.
> 
> An IMR 16340 provides 4.21v input with little if any voltage sag under load.
> 
> The readings happen this way with almost any light tested. Even the Thrunite XP-G R5 1.5A version suffered this fate. Don't worry just get some IMR 16340's and you are good to go. If you like the AW CR123 li-ons those are good too.
> 
> bigC



So will the IMR 16340's be better to use than the AW RCR123 black labels in a 6P or will it make a difference? How about with 18500's in a bored 9P? This would be the 3 mode 2.7 - 9V. 

What about with this new low volt model, 18650 IMR or AW 2600?


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

bigchelis said:


> a Primary CR123/RCR only has 3V.
> 
> An IMR 16340 provides 4.21v input with little if any voltage sag under load.
> 
> The readings happen this way with almost any light tested. Even the Thrunite XP-G R5 1.5A version suffered this fate. Don't worry just get some IMR 16340's and you are good to go. If you like the AW CR123 li-ons those are good too.
> 
> bigC


 
That's incorrect. RCR tops out at 4.2V, just like IRM, with a nominal average of 3.7V under load IIRC.


----------



## bigchelis

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> That's incorrect. RCR tops out at 4.2V, just like IRM, with a nominal average of 3.7V under load IIRC.


 

When I put RCR in the chart I meant CR123 Primaries like the Surefire brands. Sorry for the confussion.

Look at the Quark 123Mini. It does a whole lot more OTF with IMR 16340 vs. the Surefire stock CR123.


----------



## ti-force

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> That's incorrect. RCR tops out at 4.2V, just like IRM, with a nominal average of 3.7V under load IIRC.


 

He's actually talking about primaries. Granted, he's calling a primary an RCR. I also consider an RCR to be a rechargeable 16340 Li-Ion, but I knew what he meant, and it doesn't help that 16340's are called 123's by one company, 16340's by another, and RCR123 by another. Kind of confusing really.

*EDIT*
Sorry Big C; you and I were typing at the same time (about five words per minute with my dumbphone).


----------



## polkiuj

RCR123 = Rechargeable CR123. Heh~

Dun worry about that, everyone makes mistakes.

On another note, regarding the QMiNis, shouldn't the MiNi AA and MiNi 123 use the same driver (So should the Preons). The only explanation for the high lumens is the Vf is extremely different. 

Anyone can clear that up?


----------



## bigchelis

polkiuj said:


> RCR123 = Rechargeable CR123. Heh~
> 
> Dun worry about that, everyone makes mistakes.
> 
> On another note, regarding the QMiNis, shouldn't the MiNi AA and MiNi 123 use the same driver (So should the Preons). The only explanation for the high lumens is the Vf is extremely different.
> 
> Anyone can clear that up?


 

The Mini123 I would imagine would have nominal voltage inputs from 3V~4.2v while the Mini AA is 1.5~4.2v. Maybe 4sevens can aswer the question, but yes I could have a lucky low Vf.

I have the 2 Preon pen bezels as I type and was planning on testing them with the li-on AAA version:devil: I bet they will get hot hot hot.

bigC


----------



## jaundice

*Re: how about 260+ OTF lumens from 1 non-lithium AA?*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> I can't think of another 1xAA body that can accept a P60 drop-in. Can anyone? The only alternative I'm aware of is to use a FiveMega 1x18500 body and fit it with some kind of sleeve to keep the AA from rattling.


 
I have an Aleph 1x17500 body. Couple this with a VME head, and you'd have a AA body that will use a P60 drop-in.

-John


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> The Mini123 I would imagine would have nominal voltage inputs from 3V~4.2v while the Mini AA is 1.5~4.2v. Maybe 4sevens can aswer the question, but yes I could have a lucky low Vf.
> 
> I have the 2 Preon pen bezels as I type and was planning on testing them with the li-on AAA version:devil: I bet they will get hot hot hot.
> 
> bigC


 
Now the question is are they all like that or is the one you tested a fluke?


Also BigC could you do me a favor? (actually at least the 5th favor!) and measure the output of the P20C2 with 2 CR123A? 

Trying to decide if it's worth buying a 17670. I don't have any 17670 and I only have one IMR16340.


----------



## bigchelis

I got on loan another Malkoff M30 sample. This one was solid 1A at the tail with a single IMR 18650 or with a AW 2600mAh 18650. It doesn't get hot and the lumens are no where near as high.

Please note: The Sample #2 Malkoff M30 made more lumens in a 6P hosts with Twistie stock tailcap vs. the MD2 and the VME Twistie body.


----------



## bigchelis

Here are a couple more new tests.lovecpf


----------



## ti-force

I think the main thing that impresses me about the LD10 on a 14500, is the fact that it only dropped 20 OTF lumens, on high, in a 3 minute runtime:thumbsup:.

With that kind of output, from such a small light, I expected the lumens to drop rather quickly.


----------



## Superorb

bigchelis said:


> Here are a couple more new tests.lovecpf



Do you ever test the medium/low modes on a multi-mode light?


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

Superorb said:


> Do you ever test the medium/low modes on a multi-mode light?


 

See post 303.


----------



## Superorb

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> See post 303.


Ah, yes. I also responded to him, but he ignored me or didn't see my post. It's exceedingly difficult to find actual outputs for P60 drop-ins in low and medium, especially when I'm trying to locate a LOW low mode.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

Superorb said:


> Ah, yes. I also responded to him, but he ignored me or didn't see my post. It's exceedingly difficult to find actual outputs for P60 drop-ins in low and medium, especially when I'm trying to locate a LOW low mode.


 
Good point, now I see what you are asking (had to go back and re-read myself).

I guess you could always do what I am considering, and that is to just buy it and send it to him with a specific request to measure low/med/etc. So far I don't see any measurements for the RRT-0, and I'm toying with sending mine for measurement. The only problem is I don't know if I can live without it for the time it will be gone:mecry:.


----------



## Superorb

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> Good point, now I see what you are asking (had to go back and re-read myself).
> 
> I guess you could always do what I am considering, and that is to just buy it and send it to him with a specific request to measure low/med/etc. So far I don't see any measurements for the RRT-0, and I'm toying with sending mine for measurement. The only problem is I don't know if I can live without it for the time it will be gone:mecry:.


I think the closest I am to finding one is the Thrunite XP-G which claims 3 Output Modes H>M>L - 100% > 40% > 1% = 300L > 120L > 3L

But, that drop-in is made for 2 cells, and I only run 1x18650. They're coming out with a 2.7-4.2v for a single 18650 this week or next, so I can't wait for that to be available.


----------



## bigchelis

Superorb said:


> I think the closest I am to finding one is the Thrunite XP-G which claims 3 Output Modes H>M>L - 100% > 40% > 1% = 300L > 120L > 3L
> 
> But, that drop-in is made for 2 cells, and I only run 1x18650. They're coming out with a 2.7-4.2v for a single 18650 this week or next, so I can't wait for that to be available.


 

I already returned the Thrunite 3 mode. I will try and measure the multi-modes for you folks, but just the turn-on only.:thumbsup:

The LiteFlux lite I just tested is like a 30 mode light and almost impossible to use. It is really something a little too sophisticated for me, so that one I will likely not do the multi-mode readings.


----------



## Superorb

bigchelis said:


> I already returned the Thrunite 3 mode. I will try and measure the multi-modes for you folks, but just the turn-on only.:thumbsup:
> 
> Fine by me  Thanks.


----------



## bigchelis

I wanted to update my liteflux posts.


The model I tested :that light has been upgraded to a XP-G R5 w/ 1C tint by Kuku.

Now it makes sense why it was almost 260 OTF with an IMR 16340.

I will have the chart updated later.


----------



## recDNA

Hey! It's been almost a week! How about my lumens "fix" for the day?

Any chance of getting some of the SST-50 complete flashlights to test? I was thinking about the LumaPower Signature or the Tiablo AS-50? Any of them really. I'd also be curious about the Ultrafire SST-50 that BatteryJunction has.


----------



## ti-force

recDNA said:


> Hey! It's been almost a week! How about my lumens "fix" for the day?
> 
> Any chance of getting some of the SST-50 complete flashlights to test? I was thinking about the LumaPower Signature or the Tiablo AS-50? Any of them really. I'd also be curious about the Ultrafire SST-50 that BatteryJunction has.



I asked a fellow CPF member if he'd be interested in sending his Lumapower Signature SST-50 to BigC, but he said he couldn't part with it for that long. I'd be interested to know what it makes, but I'm not interested enough to actually buy one so....


----------



## recDNA

ti-force said:


> I asked a fellow CPF member if he'd be interested in sending his Lumapower Signature SST-50 to BigC, but he said he couldn't part with it for that long. I'd be interested to know what it makes, but I'm not interested enough to actually buy one so....


 

I would have thought the dealers would be happy with the attention a mention in this thread brings. I thought THEY would lend one to BigC


----------



## ti-force

They probably would if they knew it would bring a positive review in this thread. I don't mean that BigC would give a false review or anything, but exactly the opposite. He reveals the *TRUTH, *and I think some people are scared of the truth. Maybe that's keeping them from sending lights. I mean, the largest part of the market will probably buy them as advertised. Just a thought; I don't know. I wish they would though, that would be great:thumbsup:.


----------



## daberti

bigchelis said:


> I wanted to update my liteflux posts.
> 
> 
> The model I tested :that light has been upgraded to a XP-G R5 w/ 1C tint by Kuku.
> 
> Now it makes sense why it was almost 260 OTF with an IMR 16340.
> 
> I will have the chart updated later.


 
Light will be dispatched on Monday


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hi Bigchelis. I noted that you rated the Eagletac T20C2 Mark II R5 at over 15000 lux yet light-reviews.com at only 8180. That's quite a difference. Are you measuring something different than they are? Now my old R2 version of the T20C2 is rated at over 15000 lux. I just wonder if the two were mixed up or something?


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



recDNA said:


> Hi Bigchelis. I noted that you rated the Eagletac T20C2 Mark II R5 at over 15000 lux yet light-reviews.com at only 8180. That's quite a difference. Are you measuring something different than they are? Now my old R2 version of the T20C2 is rated at over 15000 lux. I just wonder if the two were mixed up or something?


 

At first I was doing the actual 1 meter readings...Then folks explained why that don't work at all for higher lux lights and things get all mixed up.

So, I just do 5 meter readings with the meter exactly 5 meters and take up to 3 minutes untill I get the highest possible lux readings. My meter is set to capture the peak and hold that value on the screen untill a higher lux is captured. I then get that number and multiply by 25 for 1 meter calculated. 

I did get 8250 calculated 1 meter lux for the smaller bezel variant: the P20A2 XP-G R5.


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



bigchelis said:


> At first I was doing the actual 1 meter readings...Then folks explained why that don't work at all for higher lux lights and things get all mixed up.
> 
> So, I just do 5 meter readings with the meter exactly 5 meters and take up to 3 minutes untill I get the highest possible lux readings. My meter is set to capture the peak and hold that value on the screen untill a higher lux is captured. I then get that number and multiply by 25 for 1 meter calculated.
> 
> I did get 8250 calculated 1 meter lux for the smaller bezel variant: the P20A2 XP-G R5.


 
So shouldn't you delete the lux values in question? 

I hope you get the chance to add lux values for all the lights you work with in the future. Many times I care more about lux than lumens. Like I already have a P20C2 and I like it so much I was thinking about buying a T20C2 but only if the throw is better than any of my other XP-G R5's. If the value reported on light-reviews is accurate it's Ok but not spectacular. If it actually produced 15000 lux I would have ordered one before typing this reply!

I really appreciate all the work you do to produce this thread. It allows all of us to make informed decisions on our purchases!


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



recDNA said:


> So shouldn't you delete the lux values in question?
> 
> I hope you get the chance to add lux values for all the lights you work with in the future. Many times I care more about lux than lumens. Like I already have a P20C2 and I like it so much I was thinking about buying a T20C2 but only if the throw is better than any of my other XP-G R5's. If the value reported on light-reviews is accurate it's Ok but not spectacular. If it actually produced 15000 lux I would have ordered one before typing this reply!
> 
> I really appreciate all the work you do to produce this thread. It allows all of us to make informed decisions on our purchases!


 


I was going to do actual 1 meter lux readings, but if you check out the reviews on the DEFT in regards to lux you will see that they are more exact/realistic if you do calculated readings. 

I still do actual 5 meter lux readings to lights worth it. Just the 1 meter lux is calculated.


----------



## MrGman

The five meter readings are good legit readings of all of these lights. With a big enough sample base you can get some good idea of how well they really perform. Big C should keep doing them all at this value. It really is more meaningful and accurate.

Keep up the good work Big C.


----------



## jirik_cz

Still there must be an error in EagleTac XP-G R5 lux measurements (IMHO). I can easily understand that typo or other error could happen in such a vast number of measurements.

1) numbers from other people are much different
2) those values are just unrealistic for XP-G and relatively small textured reflector

My numbers (measured from 4 meters and converted)
P20A2 R5 OP ~ 3100 lux
T20C2 R5 OP ~ 8000 lux


----------



## Nitroz

I might send you my Aleph III head/pineapple combo with a Flupic and a XP-G r4 to test if you're not to busy. PM me.


----------



## bigchelis

Nitroz said:


> I might send you my Aleph III head/pineapple combo with a Flupic and a XP-G r4 to test if you're not to busy. PM me.


 

PM Sent...


Aleph III heads are the Turbo heads right? More throw and just for kicks how hard is that XP-G R4 being driven? 

I like Aleph bodies too, they are slim and great EDC hosts for my E-bezels.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

jirik_cz said:


> Still there must be an error in EagleTac XP-G R5 lux measurements (IMHO). I can easily understand that typo or other error could happen in such a vast number of measurements.
> 
> 1) numbers from other people are much different
> 2) those values are just unrealistic for XP-G and relatively small textured reflector
> 
> My numbers (measured from 4 meters and converted)
> P20A2 R5 OP ~ 3100 lux
> T20C2 R5 OP ~ 8000 lux


 
My lux readings were done at 5 meters, not 4.

Also, my meter can capture peak lux and hold that value. If you use a meter that can't hold the peak lux, it would be alot less lux.

MrGman can cetainly explain this better, but without the peak/hold lux feature you will not get the highest possibe lux reading. I also take about 2 or 3 mintues and just move the light around untill I get the highest possible lux value with each light.


The two eagletacs have a huge difference in reflector size too.






bigC


----------



## recDNA

It shouldn't matter how far away you were. He divides by 16. You divide by 25. You should both get the same answers. 

Earlier you said when you measured T20C2 lux you did it the wrong way - from ONE meter. It was before you learned about doing it from 5 meters. That would explain why your lux reading was way off for that particular model. Not for ALL of the models you've measured lux in.

Light-reviews.com posted virtually the same lux readings the other poster mentioned.


----------



## recDNA

MrGman said:


> The five meter readings are good legit readings of all of these lights. With a big enough sample base you can get some good idea of how well they really perform. Big C should keep doing them all at this value. It really is more meaningful and accurate.
> 
> Keep up the good work Big C.


 

I don't believe Bigchelis measured the T20C2 from 5 meters (if I understood his post correctly). He measured it from one meter. I think it may have been before Bigchelis modified his system for measuring lux. The r2 version is around 15,000 lux. How could the R5 version be as high with a larger led and the same size reflector?


----------



## Nitroz

bigchelis said:


> PM Sent...
> 
> 
> Aleph III heads are the Turbo heads right? More throw and just for kicks how hard is that XP-G R4 being driven?
> 
> I like Aleph bodies too, they are slim and great EDC hosts for my E-bezels.
> 
> bigC



Yes, I guess you could say the Aleph III is a turbo head, 38mm reflector. It is being driven by a flupic and burst is 1.2 amps.

Here's a picture of my pineapple Aleph III.


----------



## joshconsulting

Just got my new MiNi 123, and it seems to have an even lower vF then my previous one. Current draw measured 1.33A peak with a fresh AW RCR123.

What's even more impressive is that a partially drained 2.95v RCR123 still had 1.22A - that's very impressive at a lower voltage, especially given battery sage under load at near 2C draws.

All this just makes it seem near-impossible that the AA (with the exact same battery capacity and sag, with supposedly the same LED\binning\etc.) could somehow pump out over 50% more light. Current-wise, it would be well north of 2A, quite a bit outside the max draw of 1.5A on LiPo 14500s. So either the 123 had something go wrong or had a very high vF, or the AA is unsafe to use with 14500s.

Any updates on other quarks that could be tested, or current draw for already-tested ones? I know I've posted this before (I have a hard time parting :thinking but I would be willing to send mine in for testing if no one around you has one.


----------



## joshconsulting

Selfbuilt finally got around to reviewing the MiNis (http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3355926).

He got the exact same lightbox readings (12.5) for the MiNi 123 on RCR and AA on 14500. I know a lightbox is nowhere near as accurate as your sphere, but the lights have a basically identical beam pattern. I think you need another 123 sample, I'm still positive it should be matching up with the AA for output.


----------



## recDNA

joshconsulting said:


> Selfbuilt finally got around to reviewing the MiNis (http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=3355926).
> 
> He got the exact same lightbox readings (12.5) for the MiNi 123 on RCR and AA on 14500. I know a lightbox is nowhere near as accurate as your sphere, but the lights have a basically identical beam pattern. I think you need another 123 sample, I'm still positive it should be matching up with the AA for output.


I finally figured out how to measure amps at the tail and I measured 1.33 amps in my mini with imr123


----------



## recDNA

Nitroz said:


> Yes, I guess you could say the Aleph III is a turbo head, 38mm reflector. It is being driven by a flupic and burst is 1.2 amps.
> 
> Here's a picture of my pineapple Aleph III.


That us one NICE LOOKING flashlight. WOW


----------



## Nitroz

recDNA said:


> That us one NICE LOOKING flashlight. WOW



Thanks! One of these days I am going to send it off for some special anno treatment.

The combination of parts make a really nice light. The XP-G in the Aleph 3 head is excellent! It might not have a super tight spot, but it is a great combination of spot and spill, and the turbo at 1.2 amps from the flupic push out some decent lumens.


----------



## recDNA

Nitroz said:


> Thanks! One of these days I am going to send it off for some special anno treatment.
> 
> .


 

Don't do it! That's like giving a gorgeous actress lip collagen injections!


----------



## Noctis

You never tested the Moddoo Triple XP-G yet right?
All these things about P60 size Triple/Quad lights putting out 1200+ lumens gets me all excited, but I'm a little curious to know how much of that makes it OTF and how long it stays there.


----------



## psychbeat

they're hard to find too!

Ill be watching for this test as well:twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> You never tested the Moddoo Triple XP-G yet right?
> All these things about P60 size Triple/Quad lights putting out 1200+ lumens gets me all excited, but I'm a little curious to know how much of that makes it OTF and how long it stays there.



Moddoo mentioned he would send me a sample when he had a chance. We will have to wait and see. 

I did test a Tripple XP-G 1C Mag by Ma_sha1. It does 500ish OTF due to heat off an IMR 26500. It actually performed better with a DX C cell due to more cell sag. The XP-G R5's in this build were also direct drive.

Jose


----------



## daberti

@bigchelis
Did you receive my shipment?


----------



## bigchelis

daberti said:


> @bigchelis
> Did you receive my shipment?


 

I sure did:thumbsup:


Is it suppose to be working with a single cell only?

With a single AW 26000mAh 18650 the Lumapower SST-50 pulls 1.4A and does 330ish OTF. I was going to put 2 IMR 16340's to see if the current goes up, but I will hold off untill I confirm with you.

Thanks,
bigC


----------



## daberti

bigchelis said:


> I sure did:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> Is it suppose to be working with a single cell only?
> 
> With a single AW 26000mAh 18650 the Lumapower SST-50 pulls 1.4A and does 330ish OTF. I was going to put 2 IMR 16340's to see if the current goes up, but I will hold off untill I confirm with you.
> 
> Thanks,
> bigC


 
It is endorsed for 2xRCR123 AND 2x IMR 16340 either. Yet notice that there is no low battery warning though 
Did you test it with Small Head or Turbohead?
Have you upgraded you flowchart yet?

Just asking

EDIT:
2 x 18,500 x 3 or 123A/16340 possible with the optional (but not yet available) extension tube.
Voltage range: 3.3 to 12V

EDIT 2:
If feasible I'd like also outputs for other levels


----------



## bigchelis

daberti said:


> It is endorsed for 2xRCR123 AND 2x IMR 16340 either. Yet notice that there is no low battery warning though
> Did you test it with Small Head or Turbohead?
> Have you upgraded you flowchart yet?
> 
> Just asking
> 
> EDIT:
> 2 x 18,500 x 3 or 123A/16340 possible with the optional (but not yet available) extension tube.
> Voltage range: 3.3 to 12V
> 
> EDIT 2:
> If feasible I'd like also outputs for other levels


 
I wanted to test it with as many cells as possible to then upgrade the table of lights first. I will also have to do lux at 5 meters considering it has a turbo head.

Stay tunned.

bigC


----------



## daberti

bigchelis said:


> I wanted to test it with as many cells as possible to then upgrade the table of lights first. I will also have to do lux at 5 meters considering it has a turbo head.
> 
> Stay tuned.
> 
> bigC



I'll stay 
Thanks


----------



## bigchelis

These are new lights I added to the list.


----------



## bigchelis

I have the following lights or lamps to be tested ...



LumensFactory 700 lumen D36 drop-in
IMR 350 lumen E2e
LumaPower SST-50 tactical Signature series
IMR 500 lumen P60 drop-in with 2 IMR 16340's
????????????


----------



## csshih

lol, I wonder what that last entry is.


----------



## Noctis

Me thinks you need to test more pocket "nukes" like this one:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238745

For those of us who are truly insane and "need" the ability to light up everything on this side of the equator...in a convenient pocket size ofc.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Me thinks you need to test more pocket "nukes" like this one:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/238745
> 
> For those of us who are truly insane and "need" the ability to light up everything on this side of the equator...in a convenient pocket size ofc.


 
SSR-90 or SST-90 at 9A Nailbender is getting them at 1500~1800 OTF now...

So, in a Mag D size with 3 NiMH D cells they make 1800 turn-on lumens. I would love to get one from him in this format to see how much it drops after 3 or 5 minutes.

Now: the handheld single 18650 cell in the thread looks like fun, but I would bet at 3 minutes it would leave us feeling a bit less excited. Remeber this is 40 watts in a little 6P type light I have been proven wrong many times before. The Ma_Sha1 2C SSR-50 I purchased because I thought no way in hell it makes 1000 OTF, or will even sustain those numbers for long. I was very wrong as it did 800 plus even after 5 minutes and I stopped testing because it kinda stopped dropping in OTF numbers at that point.

bigC


----------



## ma_sha1

I agree, the Mag C I did had a big 2" copper heat sink to the head. 
and the power is only 5 AMP, that's already a lot of heat.

Some have had questions if the SST-90, 9Amp by Molives 1xIMR 18650 
would be lower if read by others with a better Amp meter? 

With my SSR-90, 1xIMR 26650 only gives me 4Amp. (I have the same Amp meter as Big C)
Even if the AW IMR 18650 is better, to double that is hard to comprehend, unless he had a super low Vf LED somehow. 

When such small light is run at such high power, the lumen limiting step 
will be heat dissipation ability. Bigger paper spec often do not translate into bigger OTF. 

I would anticipate that after 3 minutes, the small SST-90 light may drop 
below 1000 level. So it may not be as "pocket nuke" as one might think after real OTF measurements.


I wold love to see some hand held HID lights being tested (flashlight type, not spot light with big reflector), 
as the big power LEDs are approaching the 24W/35W HID flashlight level of throw.


----------



## MrGman

ma_sha1 said:


> I agree, the Mag C I did had a big 2" copper heat sink to the head.
> and the power is only 5 AMP, that's already a lot of heat.
> 
> Some have had questions if the SST-90, 9Amp by Molives 1xIMR 18650
> would be lower if read by others with a better Amp meter?
> 
> With my SSR-90, 1xIMR 26650 only gives me 4Amp. (I have the same Amp meter as Big C)
> Even if the AW IMR 18650 is better, to double that is hard to comprehend, unless he had a super low Vf LED somehow.
> 
> When such small light is run at such high power, the lumen limiting step
> will be heat dissipation ability. Bigger paper spec often do not translate into bigger OTF.
> 
> I would anticipate that after 3 minutes, the small SST-90 light may drop
> below 1000 level. So it may not be as "pocket nuke" as one might think after real OTF measurements.
> 
> 
> *I wold love to see some hand held HID lights being tested (flashlight type, not spot light with big reflector), *
> *as the big power LEDs are approaching the 24W/35W HID flashlight level of throw.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Big C can't test anything over about 1500 lumen range in his sphere and the radiant energy of some of those HID's will probably burn the styrofoam. Need a bigger sphere or a "real" Integration sphere for testing 24 to 35 watt HID's.
> 
> Another CPF member was saying they make 2 foot outer diameter styrofoam spheres, that would probably bump up the measurable range of big lights considerably but I would still worry about starting them burning from what comes out of an HID light.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

I'm by no means an expept in HID spotlights, but mine puts out less heat than some of the incans I've handled in the past, presumably due to the increased efficiency of HID over conventional incan.


----------



## MrGman

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> I'm by no means an expept in HID spotlights, but mine puts out less heat than some of the incans I've handled in the past, presumably due to the increased efficiency of HID over conventional incan.


 
Its not just the IR heat off the housing, its all that radiant energy in the beam. I used to test lamps in the lab and had to be careful that I didn't set things on fire that were within 2 feet. So I made sure I set up a viewing target that was about 10 feet away. Things on a test bench within 1 foot would start smoking in less than 30 seconds with some of the lights I tested.

There's UV energy in those beams and IR. A lot of them don't have a good UV filter in the front lense. There was the guy on this forum I read about a month ago who gave himself a sun burn testing an HID light for 5 minutes. 

Don't want to see big C's sphere start turning brown or melting on the inside from an oops, didn't know that could happen moment. 

Some one may come along and say that a 25 to 35 watt HID isn't going to damage the Styrofoam, and I'm wrong. I say test that theory on your own sphere. I put too much work into getting big C's set up to see it ruined.


----------



## bigchelis

Thanks for the info MrGman.


The only 20~55 HID lights I have seen are huge and have what appears to be 6in bezels, so they wouldn't fit anyways.

To be safe I will only test 10 or 15 watt HID lights, but off course the bezels would have to be 2.5in or smaller. I think there are some 1D Mag HID 10watt lights here that MacCustoms sells, but asside from his I don't know of many that are small.

MrGman,

Would you say 15watt HID is okay?


----------



## ma_sha1

Due to the higher efficiency, 35W HID would generate less heat than a 35W Incan. I see a 55W Incan tested on BigC list, thus 35W HID should not be a problem. One can always test on an extra piece of styroform before stick into the sphere. 

I can't imagine 15W hid be a problem. 

I didn't know the 2.5" size limit. so the HIDs are out as the 24W/35HID flashlight (not spot light) usually has 3-4inch head, so they won't fit.

Heat =IR
UV is not heat & do not ignite fire. UV damages DNA & cause "Burn" to biological tissues is not the same thing as "heat burn" & would not ignite styroform. It may turn it yellow over time, but some has anti uv chemical in it to allow it stay white. Otherwise, might turn yellow over time under sun light.


----------



## ti-force

I don't think I'd try it BigC. It's yours, and you can certainly do with it what you want, but I'd suggest buying another sphere and trying it on that one. The one you have now is pretty much irreplaceable, for quite a few different reasons. It's just not worth it in my opinion. *Would anyone like to donate towards the purchase of a BigC HID sphere???? If so, and if I'm thinking like BigC would on this one, the new sphere would also be able to measure 1500+ lumens*


----------



## csshih

but then we'd need for it to be calibrated against a lab IS again, one which we don't really have access to anymore.


----------



## ti-force

It could be calibrated using numerous reference lights measured in the 10.5" sphere. It should be close using reference lights with varying bezel sizes, shouldn't it? The real IS being gone is one of the things I meant by "irreplaceable"


----------



## MrGman

from ma_sha1 "UV is not heat & do not ignite fire. UV damages DNA & cause "Burn" to biological tissues is not the same thing as "heat burn" & would not ignite styroform. It may turn it yellow over time, but some has anti uv chemical in it to allow it stay white. Otherwise, might turn yellow over time under sun light."


UV light helps accelerate the decomposition of a lot of organic materials. the turning "yellow" of the sphere is the exact thing we don't want to happen, it would ruin it.

Its not the "heat" coming from the consumption of 25 or 35 watts of electrical power making the head hot I am so much worried about. Its the more efficient radiant energy causing damage such as turning the sphere yellow or brown where the beam hits.


You have seen demonstrations where some one sets newspaper on fire with a flashlight because he set it right up against the head and it was the heat off the lamp that set the paper on fire. I tested some HID lights in the past and the _beam _was causing things to smoulder a foot and a half away. 

15 watt HID is close but under your 1500 lumen limit big C. Anything over that is going to exceed you meter's range. 

as to building a bigger sphere and calibrating it off of this one. The further you get from the original calibration source the less accuracy you have.


----------



## bigchelis

Here are my latest tests with incandescent lamps. 

If you look at the MN16 tests the peak lumens were 340 with the KT-2 bezel, but then with a KT-4 Surefire M6 it drops to 289 at turn-on. This further validates why I don't like the shock isolation lumen robbers. The KT-2/KT-1 bezel can still gain as much as 10% more OTF lumens accross the board if it had a UCL lens, but the one I tested was stock.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

I get lower bounce with light meter readings when I compare the KT1/2 with the KT4, same MN bulb, the KT4 showing lower lux numbers because of its deep set reflector. Actually what you are really losing is spill, the huge center spot still comes through. I also notice lower bounce lux readings using a Malkoff M61 in the MD2, with its smaller bezel opening, compared to a SF P6 size bezel opening, both using glass windows.

Bill


----------



## Mihakinen

A big thank you for providing the Preon 1 and iTP A3 lumens with Li-ion cells, I was always wondering how much light I get from these two. As a side-note I'd like to add that I've been operating these two lights with 10440 for some time now, everyday usage limited to 3mins on high. Haven't noticed any changes in tint and although they get pretty hot, holding them tightly helps with the dissipation.

Keeping the heat issue in mind, I'd like to ask if you re-did those tests with the same used batteries after letting the lights cool down. Did you get the same drop in output per minute as before? I'd like to know if this drop is because of the heat build-up or because of the battery discharging so if you can, please post any findings on that matter.

Thanks again.


----------



## bigchelis

Mihakinen said:


> A big thank you for providing the Preon 1 and iTP A3 lumens with Li-ion cells, I was always wondering how much light I get from these two. As a side-note I'd like to add that I've been operating these two lights with 10440 for some time now, everyday usage limited to 3mins on high. Haven't noticed any changes in tint and although they get pretty hot, holding them tightly helps with the dissipation.
> 
> Keeping the heat issue in mind, I'd like to ask if you re-did those tests with the same used batteries after letting the lights cool down. Did you get the same drop in output per minute as before? I'd like to know if this drop is because of the heat build-up or because of the battery discharging so if you can, please post any findings on that matter.
> 
> Thanks again.


 


The iTP A3 is out of my hands now. Just check the current when the cell is topped off. Then re-check it 3 or 4 minutes later. Ideally; the current will be higher to make up for the less voltage input, but I bet this will not be the case.


----------



## bigchelis

I got the Lumapower VX from DaBerti.

The Lumapower VX with SST-50 is advertised as 500 lumens and has an ST-03 Turbo bezel, which is how I tested both lumens and lux.

Here are my results: Thank you Dan for sending the light for testing.






http://www.lumapower.com/


----------



## don.gwapo

Ooops... now it's clear for me that the vx ultra is clearly beaten by thrunite's 1.5a drop in. Glad didn't pull the trigger on that light before. :sick2:.


----------



## daberti

don.gwapo said:


> Ooops... now it's clear for me that the vx ultra is clearly beaten by thrunite's 1.5a drop in. Glad didn't pull the trigger on that light before. :sick2:.



I guess you're making some mess 
D-Mini VX Ultra SST-50 is way more hardly driven than the Signature VX SST-50 (the flashlight I sent to BigC). There is no way the drop-in you mention could even approach the lm figures of D-Mini VX Ultra SST-50 

@BigC: whilst waiting for lower levels outputs, and for the scores with the other head as well, what do you think about the tint of the Signature SSC-50?


----------



## bigchelis

daberti said:


> I guess you're making some mess
> D-Mini VX Ultra SST-50 is way more hardly driven than the Signature VX SST-50 (the flashlight I sent to BigC). There is no way the drop-in you mention could even approach the lm figures of D-Mini VX Ultra SST-50
> 
> @BigC: whilst waiting for lower levels outputs, and for the scores with the other head as well, what do you think about the tint of the Signature SSC-50?


 

The tint on the SST-50 is on the white/green side. I did put the small bezel on it to test, but the OTF results were nearly identical. I will take the low levels tonight. 

I wish it was driven harder say 2.5A at least, then for less fun it has the low modes.


----------



## daberti

bigchelis said:


> The tint on the SST-50 is on the white/green side.
> I wish it was driven harder say 2.5A at least, then for less fun it has the low modes.


 
Tint: same thought of mine.
2.5A: it would have been feasible with turbohead, yet plain unfeasible with the normal one (read: thermal problems). Beyond this, Ricky wanted this flashlight to endorse the widst possible range of cells: >2A means roughly you can use 18650 and 2xIMR 16340. And this for an EDC would not be acceptable.


----------



## bigchelis

daberti said:


> Tint: same thought of mine.
> 2.5A: it would have been feasible with turbohead, yet plain unfeasible with the normal one (read: thermal problems). Beyond this, Ricky wanted this flashlight to endorse the widst possible range of cells: >2A means roughly you can use 18650 and 2xIMR 16340. And this for an EDC would not be acceptable.


 

Oh, I see. I had not thought of that before. Yes, for 2 primaries or 2 CR123 protected AW cells you would benefit from the low current. Also, the beam is really nice with the turbo head, and plenty floody with the small bezel.


----------



## don.gwapo

Sorry double post.


----------



## don.gwapo

daberti said:


> I guess you're making some mess
> D-Mini VX Ultra SST-50 is way more hardly driven than the Signature VX SST-50 (the flashlight I sent to BigC). There is no way the drop-in you mention could even approach the lm figures of D-Mini VX Ultra SST-50
> 
> @BigC: whilst waiting for lower levels outputs, and for the scores with the other head as well, what do you think about the tint of the Signature SSC-50?


 
Ooops... my bad. I thought that was the D-mini. .


----------



## bigchelis

I finally finished all the tests on the Lumapower SST-50 light.

Here it goes: Please note that the lumens stay a bit higher with the smaller bezel vs. the Turbo bezel.:thinking:


----------



## daberti

bigchelis said:


> I finally finished all the tests on the Lumapower SST-50 light.
> 
> Here it goes: Please note that the lumens stay a bit higher with the smaller bezel vs. the Turbo bezel.:thinking:



Quite the hell of a darn good job. Enough to make me prepare a gift for you, More later....

Probably smaller bezel screws a little deeper than TH.

EDIT:
now it is later 
I'd like to make a donation to BigC if he agrees. I really appreciate his work and I guess it takes time and money as well.
For Admins: that's why I post my offer here and not in B/S/T section, if you find it inappropriate, please move my post accordingly. Thanks.

So, everyone has read about his Lumapower Signature VX SST-50 test. Flashlight is brand new and comes with both heads, also this has been said.

I'll repeat: if BigC says "ok lets go on" I'll put this flashlight on sale at 110USD. I'll eat PP fees and shipment costs. 40USD will be donated to BigC.

BigC, I'm waiting for your words


----------



## bigchelis

Sounds good to me


Now, should I send this back to you or wait for someone to purchase it and send it to them with the new box and assesories.


----------



## daberti

bigchelis said:


> Sounds good to me
> 
> 
> Now, should I send this back to you or wait for someone to purchase it and send it to them with the new box and accessories.



@BigC
Just wait for someone to purchase and send it to him/her.
For sake of transparency I'm readily available to payments made to your own PP account.

@ everyone 
BigC said ok.
So, folks don't miss the option of getting a very good flashlight with both flood head and turbohead at a very good price and tested by BigC; and to help him keeping on :thumbsup:


----------



## psychbeat

wow! thats awesome ^^^^

what a kool idea- next time people have a custom light
to sell they should have it tested and then give a % to BIG C.

kinda like a BIG C certified lights thing...

also,

Im saving for a warm R3 linger special and

will send it in for testing if you havent tested one in warm yet.

gotta get paid first


----------



## bigchelis

psychbeat said:


> wow! thats awesome ^^^^
> 
> what a kool idea- next time people have a custom light
> to sell they should have it tested and then give a % to BIG C.
> 
> kinda like a BIG C certified lights thing...
> 
> also,
> 
> Im saving for a warm R3 linger special and
> 
> will send it in for testing if you havent tested one in warm yet.
> 
> gotta get paid first


 

If it is the XP-E R3 you are talking about I tested the single XP-E R3 and it does right around 200 OTF, but when pushed hard like 1.8A hard it does 260 OTF. I think you 2 of them will likely hit 400 OTF, but if you had the XP-G R4 model then 500 OTF might happen more easily.

bigC


----------



## psychbeat

the new warm/neutral XP-G (I thinks its R3) one!!

Im hoping its close to 500 w AS-5.

its gonna be the perfect trail flood light for my bike and
area light for digging. I dont have any warm lights yet
but they seem like they'll be better in the woods-
I hope..


----------



## JB

bigchelis said:


> I finally finished all the tests on the Lumapower SST-50 light.
> 
> Here it goes: Please note that the lumens stay a bit higher with the smaller bezel vs. the Turbo bezel.:thinking:



Thanks for this test bigC and also to daberti for providing the light.

bigC, have you tested it's cousin: the Lumapower D-mini VX Ultra? Curious how that compares in brightness since people say that it is driven harder than the Signature SST-50.


----------



## bigchelis

I really wanted the D-mini Ultra too, but I don't know the drive current at the LED or any specs on it. I can see 500 OTF if it is driven at 2.8A.


----------



## daberti

JB said:


> Thanks for this test bigC and also to daberti for providing the light.
> 
> bigC, have you tested it's cousin: the Lumapower D-mini VX Ultra? Curious how that compares in brightness since people say that it is driven harder than the Signature SST-50.



Roughly speaking you should expect 400-430Lm OTF (bare minimum) as a rough estimate.
This is MY OWN opinion.


----------



## recDNA

Any chance of gettin you to add lux readings to thse new lights? Especially lights designed to throw like the Microfire Aspheric. For throwers lux more important than lumens.


What is an "E2 IMR 350 lumen dropin"? I know what an E2 is but I don't know who makes the IMR 350 lumen?


----------



## Noctis

I would push for doing a series of tests on the readily available drop-ins(Nailbender, Dereelight, Thrunite) in the same host(I would suggest the Surefire 6P bored body by virtue of the fact that ElectronGuru/Moddoo seems to have an infinite supply of them).

lux readings would definitely be a big plus in seeing how each one potentially throws.

I would also compare some readings with and without copper tape to make a snug fit. As the primary downfall of P60 drop-in modules would be the part where only the upper portion of the reflector makes contact with the host body, and it would be interesting to see how the tape would affect thermal transfer and in effect, lumens output.


----------



## JB

bigchelis said:


> I really wanted the D-mini Ultra too, but I don't know the drive current at the LED or any specs on it. I can see 500 OTF if it is driven at 2.8A.



According to this post by them: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showpost.php?p=2429997&postcount=119 , the LED is driven at 2.2A.

What would be your OTF estimate at 2.2A?


----------



## rickypanecatyl

Big C - any chance you got lux measurements of the signature SST 50 with the turbo bezel? I was wondering how big a difference it made ...


----------



## hoongern

recDNA said:


> What is an "E2 IMR 350 lumen dropin"? I know what an E2 is but I don't know who makes the IMR 350 lumen?



I would say that it's a Surefire E2 [/E2E/E2D] running a LumensFactory IMR-E2 (7.4V, 350 Lumens) Lamp Assembly. Really bright - I was considering this setup a while back.


----------



## bigchelis

rickypanecatyl said:


> Big C - any chance you got lux measurements of the signature SST 50 with the turbo bezel? I was wondering how big a difference it made ...


 

That is the lux with the turbo head. We have to keep in mind that the SST-50 is huge compared to an R2 and thus to trully have a ton of throw it needs to keep the same ratio of emitter surface area to reflector that the smaller D36 R2 type of lights have.

The small bezel is almost the size of E1e incan bezel and all flood, so I didn't bother taking lux readings.

I don't have the microfire aspheric anymore, and you are correct considering what it is I should have taken the lux.


----------



## bigchelis

hoongern said:


> I would say that it's a Surefire E2 [/E2E/E2D] running a LumensFactory IMR-E2 (7.4V, 350 Lumens) Lamp Assembly. Really bright - I was considering this setup a while back.


 

That is correct. Its the Lumens Factory IMR lamp, but at 30 minutes or less my AW 17500 cells stop delivering juice and lights out.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

bigchelis said:


> That is the lux with the turbo head. We have to keep in mind that the SST-50 is huge compared to an R2 and thus to trully have a ton of throw it needs to keep the same ratio of emitter surface area to reflector that the smaller D36 R2 type of lights have.
> 
> The small bezel is almost the size of E1e incan bezel and all flood, so I didn't bother taking lux readings.
> 
> I don't have the microfire aspheric anymore, and you are correct considering what it is I should have taken the lux.


 
Wow! So that means that even with the turbohead on it wouldn't throw near as far as my XP-G RG Eagletac TC?


----------



## Noctis

Did the Malkoff M61 get tested yet? Can't seem to find the thing.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Did the Malkoff M61 get tested yet? Can't seem to find the thing.


 

Not yet. Everytime I want to they are sold out. Plus; with only 1A I already know it will do around 300 OTF and hold it pretty steady.

What I am working on now is measuring the LamdaLights VarPower 2000. It is a 3D Mag with SST-90 and it runs off 4 NiMH C cells for 10A at the LED:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

It already measures above 1500 OTF lumens, but I am working on getting the peak lumens with 3 or 4 minute runtime. I should have these numbers by next Friday. This light is just freaking amazing and it is the reason why the SR90 didn't impress me when I saw it.

http://www.lambdalights.com/varapower.html


----------



## kramer5150

bigchelis said:


> Not yet. Everytime I want to they are sold out. Plus; with only 1A I already know it will do around 300 OTF and hold it pretty steady.
> 
> What I am working on now is measuring the LamdaLights VarPower 2000. It is a 3D Mag with SST-90 and it runs off 4 NiMH C cells for 10A at the LED:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs
> 
> It already measures above 1500 OTF lumens, but I am working on getting the peak lumens with 3 or 4 minute runtime. I should have these numbers by next Friday. This light is just freaking amazing and it is the reason why the SR90 didn't impress me when I saw it.
> 
> http://www.lambdalights.com/varapower.html



Is this the one Gordon brought on the night hike? I thought his was a 4D?
I concur... its an AMAZING light. The UI is KILLER too.

Click button for on, rotate button for output adjustment. Everyone is familiar with the dimmer rheostat in their dining room, thats what this reminded me of.

Looking forward to your results

**EDIT**
Oh CRAP... Its only $175!!!??... I thought it was in the $300's
:thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

kramer5150 said:


> Is this the one Gordon brought on the night hike? I thought his was a 4D?
> I concur... its an AMAZING light. The UI is KILLER too.
> 
> Click button for on, rotate button for output adjustment.
> 
> Looking forward to your results
> :thumbsup:


 

Nope: I purchased my own.

It has a deep Mag Rebel reflector, so the heatsink sits about half inch into the Mag tube. This makes the bezel and switch area equally hot while testing. 

These are 3D Mags which run on 4 NiMH C cells with spacer. 

Here is what it does on the 2nd from highest mode: Again, not the high mode.:nana:

*1385.4 **1 sec*
*1260.0 **30 sec*
*1200.0 **1 min*
*1068.5 **2 min*
*1038.5 **3 min*
*1013.1 **4 min*


----------



## JCD

I would be interested in seeing how different bezel rings affect output. Does an aftermarket stainless ring on a 6P, for example, increase the total light output by reflecting more light? Does a crenelated 6PD have reduced output compared to a regular 6P? How much difference does bezel ring selection make?


----------



## bigchelis

JCD said:


> I would be interested in seeing how different bezel rings affect output. Does an aftermarket stainless ring on a 6P, for example, increase the total light output by reflecting more light? Does a crenelated 6PD have reduced output compared to a regular 6P? How much difference does bezel ring selection make?


 

Crenealted bezels like the 6P defender do take lumens away, but only from the spill.

MrGman already made note of this and it is why I only use flat stainless steel rings for all my 6P tests. Oh, and of course he was the one who got me to switch to UCL AR coated lens too. I don't think I own a light without it. 

Flat bezels (metal) vs. Flat bezels (plastic inser) = this I have not tested for comparison, but I do not have the later.


bigC


----------



## rickypanecatyl

BigC - how does that switch work on the Lambdalight? I was reading their website and it almost seemed to imply that 1000 lumens was the minimum output and 2,000 was the maximum?

Do you think it can run AW 26650 IMR's?


----------



## bigchelis

rickypanecatyl said:


> BigC - how does that switch work on the Lambdalight? I was reading their website and it almost seemed to imply that 1000 lumens was the minimum output and 2,000 was the maximum?
> 
> Do you think it can run AW 26650 IMR's?


 

The switch is a thing of beauty and genius. You push on/off. It will always turn-on the last setting. Then you just twist righ or left. Right for more light left for less. It is identical to a U2 or Spy5 Spy7 lights you see here where you just twist a knob to control brightness.

The 10A at the LED also means you get a switch that is designed for those high currents and at the price he offers It is the least expensive I have ever seen any light of that caliber.

bigC


----------



## gswitter

kramer5150 said:


> Is this the one Gordon brought on the night hike? I thought his was a 4D?


It just looks like a 4D because of the FM deep reflector/extension. 

The initial run of the VaraPowers was based on the incan Mags - either 4x NiMH C cells in a 3D host (also runs fine with lower output on 3x D NiMH cells), or 4x NiMH D cells in a 4D host.

He's now using the Mag Rebel LED hosts (for those awesome reflectors), so the design has changed a little. The Mag Rebel reflector is a big improvement, but comes at the cost of compatibility with other aftermarket Mag reflectors (like the FM 2" deep).


----------



## rickypanecatyl

bigchelis said:


> What I am working on now is measuring the LamdaLights VarPower 2000. It is a 3D Mag with SST-90 and it runs off 4 NiMH C cells for 10A at the LED:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs
> 
> It already measures above 1500 OTF lumens, but I am working on getting the peak lumens with 3 or 4 minute runtime. I should have these numbers by next Friday. This light is just freaking amazing and it is the reason why the SR90 didn't impress me when I saw it.
> 
> http://www.lambdalights.com/varapower.html



Do you have any idea of the throw/lux on this light? Would it be reasonable to assume the SST 50 version would throw farther as it's a smaller LED in the same size reflector?


----------



## bigchelis

rickypanecatyl said:


> Do you have any idea of the throw/lux on this light? Would it be reasonable to assume the SST 50 version would throw farther as it's a smaller LED in the same size reflector?


 


I will get the 5 meter lux, but yes it is safe to assume the SST-50 will have more lux.


----------



## recDNA

rickypanecatyl said:


> Do you have any idea of the throw/lux on this light? Would it be reasonable to assume the SST 50 version would throw farther as it's a smaller LED in the same size reflector?


How fast does it get too hot to handle? Any idea of approximate runtime?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> How fast does it get too hot to handle? Any idea of approximate runtime?


 
I should be releasing my info soon, but at 3 minutes its time for a lower mode. It gets hot, but that knob makes it as easy as just turning down to a lesser output say 1200 lumens


The lux at 5 meters is impressive and 1 meter calculated only to DBS R2. And this is with an SST-90, which is alot of throw for a super big LED.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

A couple weeks ago I went on a night hike with a group of CPF members. Craig had the SR90 and Gswitter had the VaraPower 2000. I thought wholly cow these SST-90's are awesome, but liked the VaraPower more because too me it appeared brighter. Next thing you know I purchased my own. 

The VaraPower2000 is made by Lambdalights:
http://www.lambdalights.com/varapower.html

It is a 3D Mag powered by 4 NiMH C cells = 5.6~6.7v topped off cells. I did test it with 3 NiMH D cells too, but its underdriven at 4.2v. Its wired direct drive with an adjustable knob like the SPY07 lights.

Here are my results: *OH yeah almost 35K 1 meter lux too.*


----------



## MrGman

1538 lumens is the max your sphere system/meter can read. I believe that light puts out more and the meter is simply maxxed out. You need for these guys to chip in and get you the bigger 24 inch sphere system so you can read lights up over 3500 lumens.


----------



## ti-force

MrGman said:


> You need for these guys to chip in and get you the bigger 24 inch sphere system so you can read lights up over 3500 lumens.



I second that motion, and so move to offer $15 from myself to get things started:thumbsup:


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

How much dinero? Maybe CPF will chip in a banner ad that will link to some sort of donation account.


----------



## MrGman

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> How much dinero? Maybe CPF will chip in a banner ad that will link to some sort of donation account.


 

I have been told that the 24" styrofoam sphere is in the $120 price range and I don't know if that includes shipping.


----------



## ma_sha1

bigchelis said:


> A couple weeks ago I went on a night hike with a group of CPF members. Craig had the SR90 and Gswitter had the VaraPower 2000. I thought wholly cow these SST-90's are awesome, but liked the VaraPower more because too me it appeared brighter. Next thing you know I purchased my own.
> 
> The VaraPower2000 is made by Lambdalights:
> http://www.lambdalights.com/varapower.html
> 
> It is a 3D Mag powered by 4 NiMH C cells = 5.6~6.7v topped off cells. I did test it with 3 NiMH D cells too, but its underdriven at 4.2v. Its wired direct drive with an adjustable knob like the SPY07 lights.
> 
> Here are my results: *OH yeah almost 35K 1 meter lux too.*




Big C, That looks like a great light. The Mag Rebel reflector is a real winner. I am surprized you only got 35K @ 1 meter but it looked brighter than SR90? as SR90 was measured by others to be 112K @ 1 meter . I wonder if the SR90 was on high? Or was the battery partially discharged? The SR90 with a fully driven SST-90 & a huge 4" SMO reflector should have 2-3x the throw.

I just finished a light with similar set-up, SST-90/mag rebel Deep SMO,
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/273748

Using DX lux meter:
With 1x26650 DD, I got 34K @ 1meter
With 4xEneloops, I got 45K @ 1 meter, starting out at 8.13 Amp. 

With DX meter reading low than those expensive lux meters, 
I estimated it should be easily >50K @ 1 meter. 

Do you know what bin of the SST-90 was used?
What heat sink was used?
Could you still adjust focus? I cold just my focus & get very tight spot.

Just curious, as the meg Rebel SMO should be able to do more.


----------



## ti-force

MrGman said:


> I have been told that the 24" styrofoam sphere is in the $120 price range and I don't know if that includes shipping.



Yeah, it would be safe to assume a total price of about $220 with shipping and everything. I know that's high, but that size sphere is considered oversized, so the s/h is really expensive. I have the exact cost wrote down at home from when I was pricing them. I'll try to find it when I get home.

Now if we can get people to be as generous with a small amount of money, as BigC has been with his time and knowledge. I don't think people realize just how much time is required to do everything BigC does. From un-boxing the lights, all the way to boxing them back up, driving to the post office; waiting in line to pay for shipping and then dropping them off 

Think about it guys, and while you're thinking about it, here's something else to consider for anyone whose had BigC test a light for them. If I'm not mistaken, it costs $250 and up to have a light tested by a company that does this stuff for a living.


----------



## bigchelis

ma_sha1 said:


> Big C, That looks like a great light. The Mag Rebel reflector is a real winner. I am surprized you only got 35K @ 1 meter but it looked brighter than SR90? as SR90 was measured by others to be 112K @ 1 meter . I wonder if the SR90 was on high? Or was the battery partially discharged? The SR90 with a fully driven SST-90 & a huge 4" SMO reflector should have 2-3x the throw.
> 
> I just finished a light with similar set-up, SST-90/mag rebel Deep SMO,
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/273748
> 
> Using DX lux meter:
> With 1x26650 DD, I got 34K @ 1meter
> With 4xEneloops, I got 45K @ 1 meter, starting out at 8.13 Amp.
> 
> With DX meter reading low than those expensive lux meters,
> I estimated it should be easily >50K @ 1 meter.
> 
> Do you know what bin of the SST-90 was used?
> What heat sink was used?
> Could you still adjust focus? I cold just my focus & get very tight spot.
> 
> Just curious, as the meg Rebel SMO should be able to do more.


 

I do the 5 meter lux and calculate for 1 meter. I do not actually take the 1 meter reading because it was considered not as consistant as doing say 5 meters and calculating back to 1 meter.


The SST-90 I was told is 10A at the LED (I haven't confirmed this yet)
You can adjust the focus too and yes surprisingly I get a tiny hot spot.
The heatsink must be good and appears longer then the normal ones used as it goes way down into the tube by the switch. I think Lambda makes his own to work with the switch knob he uses.
We did beam shoots in the middle of the hike and towards the end, so it could be the SR90 had too much action that night which might have made it appear less bright by the time I got to see it.
 
I will top off the NiMH C cells and try the actual 1 meter reading to see if I get higher lux readings.




*I have the VaraPower 1000 the SST-50 in the same Rebel deep reflector comming today as a loaner from GSwitter.* lovecpf


----------



## calebra

i must say my 4D varapower by Lambda is the ducks nuts, just awesome power from the lowest of low's to the highest of highs!


----------



## flashfiend

MrGman said:


> 1538 lumens is the max your sphere system/meter can read. I believe that light puts out more and the meter is simply maxxed out. You need for these guys to chip in and get you the bigger 24 inch sphere system so you can read lights up over 3500 lumens.



Good to know. I was wondering why the FM1909 bulb measured exactly the same as the varapower sst-90. I wonder what the real lumen comparison is? It's funny to think of this but if they were the same output-wise, the sst-90 is drawing 9-10amps (@4.8v) while the FM1909 draws 5.4amps (@11.1v). For me it makes the LED-incan comparison a little more level.


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> Good to know. I was wondering why the FM1909 bulb measured exactly the same as the varapower sst-90. I wonder what the real lumen comparison is? It's funny to think of this but if they were the same output-wise, the sst-90 is drawing 9-10amps (@4.8v) while the FM1909 draws 5.4amps (@11.1v). For me it makes the LED-incan comparison a little more level.


 

What I do is put the light into the sphere and as soon as I get a reading which is 17sec for the FM1909 and about 23 seconds for the VaraPower2000. So, yes they make similar OTF numbers but then the runtime puts it back on perspective.


bigC


----------



## MrGman

bigchelis said:


> What I do is put the light into the sphere and as soon as I get a reading which is 17sec for the FM1909 and about 23 seconds for the VaraPower2000. So, yes they make similar OTF numbers but then the runtime puts it back on perspective.
> 
> 
> bigC


 
for those who may not know what that means. The meter reads overload and he is waiting for it to come down to the threshold where it will actually give numbers. So if it takes 17 seconds for one light to come down while its output is diminishing from warm up and battery sag versus another that takes 23 seconds to give a real reading, the one at 23 second was obviously brighter for a longer period of time or maybe just held its brightness level longer due to better heat control. That's why we need at the very least a 16 inch size sphere which is the last one I had but since big C is in to testing these latest mega lights and now there are so many out there, in order to do it right he really needs to jump right into the 24 inch diameter sphere which should put him up over the 4000 lumen readable range without pegging the meter. I hope this makes sense to every one.

In the meantime, he has donated a heck of a lot of his time and shouldn't have to pay for everything himself. tell em where to send donations to big C.


----------



## ti-force

MrGman said:


> In the meantime, he has donated a heck of a lot of his time and shouldn't have to pay for everything himself. tell em where to send donations to big C.



:twothumbs

+ 1 Let us know where to send money; I'll donate the first $15 to you BigC. You've done a lot for me(and others), and I really appreciate it:thumbsup:.


----------



## ti-force

Okay, I found my notes for the sphere pricing. I was wrong on the price. It's the 30" sphere that's so expensive to ship. The shipping alone is $100 for the 30" sphere.

The pricing for the 24" sphere is as follows:
Sphere: $85.00
Shipping and handling: $23.23
Total= $108.23

$108.23 + 10%(possible price increases) = $119.05
$119.05 - $15.00(my donation) = $104.05

Okay people, the target goal here is to raise at least $100.00 more for BigC. Anything over $100.00, IMO, is rightfully deserved by BigC. I'd also like to take this moment to thank MrGman also. If it weren't for him, all of this probably wouldn't be possible:twothumbs. Selfless actions like you guys have made are the reason why lovecpf.


----------



## flashfiend

bigchelis said:


> What I do is put the light into the sphere and as soon as I get a reading which is 17sec for the FM1909 and about 23 seconds for the VaraPower2000. So, yes they make similar OTF numbers but then the runtime puts it back on perspective.
> 
> 
> bigC



What about runtime? FM 1909 draws 5.4 amps from a 2300mah pack and this light draws 10 amps from possibly a 4500mah pack. Am I missing something here? They're fairly similar.


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> What about runtime? FM 1909 draws 5.4 amps from a 2300mah pack and this light draws 10 amps from possibly a 4500mah pack. Am I missing something here? They're fairly similar.


 

You are missing the total power or watts with no load.

At 1st glace one might think they are very similar in watts (no load)

The FM1909 with 12.4V input and 5.4~5.6A at the tail is around 65 watts of power.

The Lambda VaraPower2000 is 5.6V input and pulls 10A and I thought wholly crap thats 56 watts, but no. I learned today the VaraPower has a circuit built in that drops the voltage input so the output is constant.. I will have to take the builder on his word and assume its 10A at the LED for a total of 30 watts on high mode. I am confused on this now that I tried to explain it I just took the tailcap reading on my vARaPower2000 with 4 NiMH C cells it gets 8A at the tail. The voltage may be bumped down or up depending on the cylce of the cells voltage input. Confused yet?

Gswitter, if you are around maybe you can better explain this since you enlightened me on this issue.


Overall yes the FM1909 and the Varapower make similar OTF numbers, but the SST-90 does it at 50% less the power consumption.


----------



## flashfiend

BigC, you talked about runtime not power and efficiency. Certainly the LED is more efficient but it doesn't run for much longer.


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> BigC, you talked about runtime not power and efficiency. Certainly the LED is more efficient but it doesn't run for much longer.


 

I tested the fivemega FM1909 for 15 minutes continuous before:twothumbs


The lambda VaraPower 2000 I have to try and recored the 3 minute intervals because I can't just got that long without going to low or off.

I did use it on high till the cells drained to break them in (new NiMH cells) and as soon as it looked dim on high it was time to charge. It took nearly a whole day to re-charge.

bigC


----------



## flashfiend

bigchelis said:


> I tested the fivemega FM1909 for 15 minutes continuous before:twothumbs
> 
> 
> The lambda VaraPower 2000 I have to try and recored the 3 minute intervals because I can't just got that long without going to low or off.
> 
> I did use it on high till the cells drained to break them in (new NiMH cells) and as soon as it looked dim on high it was time to charge. It took nearly a whole day to re-charge.
> 
> bigC



Yeah, I'm just going by runtime for these. Sounds like you've tested the FM1909 quite extensively. 

Can you clarify about continuous use on the Lambda? You say you can only record for 3min intervals and then you say you ran it until the light dimmed noticeably on high. Just wondering exactly what you mean by that. Btw, sorry about cell re-charge. It sure is a PITA.

Also, I'm willing to contribute $5 to the sphere fund but not because of testing but because of your generosity with the copper tape a few months back and because you're an overall cool guy. :twothumbs

Additionally, if your sphere is limited to 1500+ lumens, how was MrGman's 6in sphere able to record 1700+ lumens for the LEDZep 3xP7?


----------



## MrGman

flashfiend said:


> Yeah, I'm just going by runtime for these. Sounds like you've tested the FM1909 quite extensively.
> 
> Can you clarify about continuous use on the Lambda? You say you can only record for 3min intervals and then you say you ran it until the light dimmed noticeably on high. Just wondering exactly what you mean by that. Btw, sorry about cell re-charge. It sure is a PITA.
> 
> Also, I'm willing to contribute $5 to the sphere fund but not because of testing but because of your generosity with the copper tape a few months back and because you're an overall cool guy. :twothumbs
> 
> Additionally, if your sphere is limited to 1500+ lumens, how was MrGman's 6in sphere able to record 1700+ lumens for the LEDZep 3xP7?


 
the LEDZep was not tested in the 6 inch sphere I had at work, it was tested in the 16 inch sphere I built at home and calibrated using lights I cross reference from the sphere at work. the bigger the sphere, the lower the total light sensed at the meter. That 16 inch inner diameter made a big difference to that of a 12 or 10 inch inner diameter sphere that uses the same meter. The one at work was a completely different system and had a much wider range of readings it was capable of but we never put anything with more than 1.5 inch diameter head in the opening because that was its size. I only tested small lights at work.


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> Yeah, I'm just going by runtime for these. Sounds like you've tested the FM1909 quite extensively.
> 
> Can you clarify about continuous use on the Lambda? You say you can only record for 3min intervals and then you say you ran it until the light dimmed noticeably on high. Just wondering exactly what you mean by that. Btw, sorry about cell re-charge. It sure is a PITA.
> 
> Also, I'm willing to contribute $5 to the sphere fund but not because of testing but because of your generosity with the copper tape a few months back and because you're an overall cool guy. :twothumbs
> 
> Additionally, if your sphere is limited to 1500+ lumens, how was MrGman's 6in sphere able to record 1700+ lumens for the LEDZep 3xP7?


 

MrGman had a 16.5in Sphere we were using for testing in the Garage of thruth. The bigger 16.5in Sphere can measure 3000ish OTF lumens vs. my 10.5in; which is limited to 1530ish. We use the same meter.

The Lambdalight gets super hot at 3 minutes, so I do just 3 minute runtimes and let it cool. Then do it again and again and again till I got the cells below 1v. This took all evening and well into the night. Lucky for me some good stuff on T.V. was on.


Thanks for the $5 dollar offer


----------



## smokelaw1

ti-force said:


> Okay people, the target goal here is to raise at least $100.00 more for BigC. Anything over $100.00, IMO, is rightfully deserved by BigC. I'd also like to take this moment to thank MrGman also. If it weren't for him, all of this probably wouldn't be possible:twothumbs. Selfless actions like you guys have made are the reason why lovecpf.


I got $25 for you. Let me know where to send PP, please? Directly to BigC? PM me, please, i don't always check back to this thread.


----------



## bigchelis

Okay I will use this spot to track the donations towards the 16.5in Sphere. paypal is [email protected] 


*SmokeLaw1 = $25= completed.*
_*Flashfriend = $5 = completed.*_
*Ti-force $15 = completed.*
*calebra= $50 = completed.*
*FroggyTaco $10 = completed.*
*Vortus $5 = completed.*
*MiniLux $25 = completed.*
Hi Folks....

The new paypal balance is $132.75.


----------



## flashfiend

bigchelis said:


> MrGman had a 16.5in Sphere we were using for testing in the Garage of thruth. The bigger 16.5in Sphere can measure 3000ish OTF lumens vs. my 10.5in; which is limited to 1530ish. We use the same meter.
> 
> The Lambdalight gets super hot at 3 minutes, so I do just 3 minute runtimes and let it cool. Then do it again and again and again till I got the cells below 1v. This took all evening and well into the night. Lucky for me some good stuff on T.V. was on.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the $5 dollar offer



Are you saying it's too hot to handle and use after 3min?


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> Are you saying it's too hot to handle and use after 3min?


 


Yup. If I had gloves maybe I could go longer. The good news is it has plenty of lower modes while it cools. I think 5 min on max is normal for almost all my high powered LED lights. 

My M6 3 P7 LED zep build also could go 5 min Max as was the 5 R2 version of his. Even the SST-50 2C Mag I tested Ma_Sha1 at 5.5a gets similarly hot at 5 minutes. Oh, and the Fivemega FM1909 at 10 mintues I had to hold it by the tailcap area due to the extreme heat it puts out. Im surprised I havent had any cell failures with the torture testes I put my cells through.


----------



## FroggyTaco

bigchelis said:


> Okay I will use this spot to track the donations towards the 16.5in Sphere. paypal is [email protected]
> 
> 
> SmokeLaw1 = $25
> Flashfriend = $5
> Ti-force $15
> whose next????



$10.00 from me!


----------



## ti-force

BigC!!


I used the "Personal", "Gift" option so no fees are deducted. It would be great if everyone could do this, but if not, maybe the additional 10% included in the target goal will cover it.

This is great guys! SmokeLaw1(showoff j/k ), Flashfiend and FroggyTaco, thanks guys:thumbsup:. We're getting closer and this is going to be great. Really opening a door for BigC to test these new high power lights.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> Okay I will use this spot to track the donations towards the *16.5in Sphere*. paypal is
> [/LIST]



You gotta think big BigC. Was the 16.5" a typo? The 24"OD(22" ID) would give you plenty of room to grow on:naughty:. I know it's big, but the odds of you pegging your meter with the 24" sphere any time soon are slim to none.


----------



## flashfiend

bigchelis said:


> Yup. If I had gloves maybe I could go longer. The good news is it has plenty of lower modes while it cools. I think 5 min on max is normal for almost all my high powered LED lights.
> 
> My M6 3 P7 LED zep build also could go 5 min Max as was the 5 R2 version of his. Even the SST-50 2C Mag I tested Ma_Sha1 at 5.5a gets similarly hot at 5 minutes. Oh, and the Fivemega FM1909 at 10 mintues I had to hold it by the tailcap area due to the extreme heat it puts out. Im surprised I havent had any cell failures with the torture testes I put my cells through.



Wow, all your answers are really muddying up what to do with my recently acquired Elephant II. I can't decide whether to go LED or Incan.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Can't you do both? Just swap the internals?


----------



## MrGman

big C you really want to go with the 24 inch sphere, I believe that's the outer diameter and the inside would be around 22 or 22.5 inch. These bigger and bigger mega lights you like to test would have a better chance to work and get good readings in this sphere. I know its going to take up a little more space but for all the testing you do and we both know your going to test lights like its going out of style, that's what you need. 

You can dooooooo iiiiiiiitttttttttttttt.


----------



## calebra

donation for sphere sent lads, gotta thank bigC for his work!


----------



## bigchelis

bigchelis said:


> Okay I will use this spot to track the donations towards the 16.5in Sphere. paypal is [email protected]
> 
> 
> *SmokeLaw1 = $25= completed.*
> Flashfriend = $5
> *Ti-force $15 = completed.*
> *calebra= $50 = completed.*
> *FroggyTaco $10 = completed.*


 
Thank you all very much. Milky might chip in too, but with a twist. He will explain latter.



This is what I have so far $100.:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs Well; $97.95 to be exact!!

We need a bit more and I will get the Jumbo 24in Sphere with 4500+ OTF capability.


----------



## Vortus

How big of a light (physical size) will be able to be tested in the new sphere?


----------



## bigchelis

Vortus said:


> How big of a light (physical size) will be able to be tested in the new sphere?


 

I will get the 24in or the 30in and the port hole will be 4 inches. So, pretty much all lights will be tested. There are some HID Spotlights that still wont fit, but thats a small compromise.:thumbsup:


----------



## Vortus

Then put me down for 5 bucks too. As I am interested in seeing some of the bigger lights. Esp the Wayne's Blaster NG.


----------



## bigchelis

Vortus said:


> Then put me down for 5 bucks too. As I am interested in seeing some of the bigger lights. Esp the Wayne's Blaster NG.


 

Your $5 dollars has been received and noted as completed.

Flashlightfriend, I got yours too. 

*Total is now $107.75 paypal balance*. 

Thank you,
bigC


----------



## smokelaw1

bigchelis said:


> I will get the 24in or the 30in and the port hole will be 4 inches. So, pretty much all lights will be tested. There are some HID Spotlights that still wont fit, but thats a small compromise.:thumbsup:


 
Not to mention I think HIDs are more consitent and predictable. That's awesome news. 



Vortus said:


> Then put me down for 5 bucks too. As I am interested in seeing some of the bigger lights. Esp the Wayne's Blaster NG.


 
Yeah, I am excited to see how some of the super lights stack up!!


----------



## MrGman

Vortus said:


> How big of a light (physical size) will be able to be tested in the new sphere?


 

Ideally the opening of the sphere should be 6 times less than the inside diameter. It really should not be less than 4 times. A 12 inch sphere (inner diameter) ideal port size would be 2 inch opening, maximum would be 3 inch. A 22 inch sphere divided by 4 is 5.5 inches but I recommend to go 22/5 for 4.4 to 4.5 inches max for good results. That would be the bezel total width diameter to get the head right up to the entry plane but not cross into the inside wall of the sphere itself. If it breaks through the plane you can actually see the numbers drop as the light starts hitting the side of the bezel and ruins the total reflections to provide for maximum "Integration". Plus it will be able to handle higher wattage incan lights as well.


----------



## bigchelis

MrGman said:


> Ideally the opening of the sphere should be 6 times less than the inside diameter. It really should not be less than 4 times. A 12 inch sphere (inner diameter) ideal port size would be 2 inch opening, maximum would be 3 inch. A 22 inch sphere divided by 4 is 5.5 inches but I recommend to go 22/5 for 4.4 to 4.5 inches max for good results. That would be the bezel total width diameter to get the head right up to the entry plane but not cross into the inside wall of the sphere itself. If it breaks through the plane you can actually see the numbers drop as the light starts hitting the side of the bezel and ruins the total reflections to provide for maximum "Integration". Plus it will be able to handle higher wattage incan lights as well.


 

Good to hear. I was afraid the 24.5in would be hard pressed for 4.5in port.


----------



## bigchelis

bigchelis said:


> Okay I will use this spot to track the donations towards the 16.5in Sphere. paypal is [email protected]
> 
> 
> *SmokeLaw1 = $25= completed.*
> _*Flashfriend = $5 = completed.*_
> *Ti-force $15 = completed.*
> *calebra= $50 = completed.*
> *FroggyTaco $10 = completed.*
> *Vortus $5 = completed.*
> *MiniLux $25 = completed.*
> *Hi Folks....*
> 
> *The new paypal balance is $132.75.*


----------



## calebra

c'mon people, its all well and good us all needing to know the truth, so keep the donations coming, hmm, dont see any retailers donating either. :shakehead


----------



## bigchelis

Here is the VaraPower1000 by lambdalights. It is a 2D Mag with 3 NiMH C cells with the same knob switch that controls both the levels and the on/off functions.

I also tested a P7 direct drive with 3 NiMH AA Tenergy Cells.


NOTE: The lux is a little less then the SST-90 VarPower2000 variant. I guess the brute 700 extra lumens will do that!!!


----------



## bigchelis

calebra said:


> c'mon people, its all well and good us all needing to know the truth, so keep the donations coming, hmm, dont see any retailers donating either. :shakehead


 

Once I hit $200 I will order the 24in Sphere:thumbsup: 

Oh and all of my lights I actually purchased just for testing too. There were about 2 dozen provided temporarily by Craig too. 


I will have a Milky Custom E-Series Cremator with R2 direct drive to test soon. Scott, mentioned its the most extreme heatsinking he has ever done or outsourced. :twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs Did I mention the L1 can fit a AW 17670 cell


Oh and a local guy has a Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 too. I plan to really get these 2 lights tested by next Friday or sooner.


----------



## calebra

wouldnt mind seeing the results from the SFIII range...perhaps there is someone living nearby...


----------



## bigchelis

calebra said:


> wouldnt mind seeing the results from the SFIII range...perhaps there is someone living nearby...


 

The SFIII is the ARcMania SMT LED light powered by an 18650 right?

If so it has been tested already thanks to AaronM for sending it to me.


----------



## calebra

bigchelis said:


> The SFIII is the ARcMania SMT LED light powered by an 18650 right?
> 
> If so it has been tested already thanks to AaronM for sending it to me.


ahh ty for that, a bit disappointing to say the least, it was meant to be around the 1000L mark.


----------



## calebra

BigC, are you sure when you tested the SF III SMT that you had it on high for the test?


----------



## gswitter

Thanks for posting the VP1K results. It's good to see how the AccuEvolutions performed. I think the extra sag is a reasonable trade-off for the lower self-discharge.

Based on side-by-side comparisons with my Lambda Revolution 3C (that MrGman tested at ~750), your result for the VP1K are about what I expected.

Did you happen to test the AccuEvolutions with the VP2K?

I've hesitated ordering any Tenergy C's, because they've had such a mixed reputation here. Wish there were more NiMH C options.

Lambda has said that since he's pushing the emitters so hard, using D cells instead of C's with the same PWM rates was often too much. I'm curious about Sub C's though. There's better high current options in that size. Might be time to order 4x Elite 5000's.

$25 sent for the bigger sphere fund.


----------



## bigchelis

calebra said:


> BigC, are you sure when you tested the SF III SMT that you had it on high for the test?


 


Absolutely it was on high, but it has probably the best construction and attention to detail I have ever seen. 

To be fair all Osram LED's me or Mrgman have tested have been nothing but dissapointment in terms of OTF. If ArcMania uses an SST-50 in the future the results will be spectacular for sure.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

gswitter said:


> Thanks for posting the VP1K results. It's good to see how the AccuEvolutions performed. I think the extra sag is a reasonable trade-off for the lower self-discharge.
> 
> Based on side-by-side comparisons with my Lambda Revolution 3C (that MrGman tested at ~750), your result for the VP1K are about what I expected.
> 
> Did you happen to test the AccuEvolutions with the VP2K?
> 
> I've hesitated ordering any Tenergy C's, because they've had such a mixed reputation here. Wish there were more NiMH C options.
> 
> Lambda has said that since he's pushing the emitters so hard, using D cells instead of C's with the same PWM rates was often too much. I'm curious about Sub C's though. There's better high current options in that size. Might be time to order 4x Elite 5000's.
> 
> $25 sent for the bigger sphere fund.


 


Gswitter I got the $25 for the 24in Sphere thank you:thumbsup:


I did test my Lambda Varapower2000 with both NiMH C cells and your tailcap (the copper resistance modded). The OTF results suffered greatly with both cells and I was in the 1000 OTF range just by a tailcap switch.

I put the stock (no resistance) tailcap back on and the lumens were right back in the 1500~1300 OTF range. 



bigC


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> Once I hit $200 I will order the 24in Sphere:thumbsup:


 for $16 - with no way to do "personal" transfers over here, I hope at least $15 arrive at your end...



bigchelis said:


> Oh and a local guy has a Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 too. I plan to really get these 2 lights tested by next Friday or sooner.


Looking forward to that one! 
To my naked eye it is quite close to my 24W Xenide with diffuser (and smokes the nalibender SST-90 drop-in ).


----------



## calebra

bigchelis said:


> Absolutely it was on high, but it has probably the best construction and attention to detail I have ever seen.
> 
> To be fair all Osram LED's me or Mrgman have tested have been nothing but dissapointment in terms of OTF. If ArcMania uses an SST-50 in the future the results will be spectacular for sure.
> 
> bigC


yep, i hear ya, btw, i have his sst-50 and his osram 15w and they are both very different animals...


----------



## gswitter

bigchelis said:


> I did test my Lambda Varapower2000 with both NiMH C cells and your tailcap (the copper resistance modded). The OTF results suffered greatly with both cells and I was in the 1000 OTF range just by a tailcap switch.
> 
> I put the stock (no resistance) tailcap back on and the lumens were right back in the 1500~1300 OTF range.


Let me get this straight... you tested your VP2K with the copper-strapped tail cap from my VP1K and the output dropped by a third? And that drop occurred with both the AccuEvolution and the Tenergy cells?


----------



## calebra

gswitter said:


> Let me get this straight... you tested your VP2K with the copper-strapped tail cap from my VP1K and the output dropped by a third? And that drop occurred with both the AccuEvolution and the Tenergy cells?


Lambda does mention in his thread that HIS tailcap is instrumental in output and shouldnt be altered for various reasons ...


----------



## bigchelis

gswitter said:


> Let me get this straight... you tested your VP2K with the copper-strapped tail cap from my VP1K and the output dropped by a third? And that drop occurred with both the AccuEvolution and the Tenergy cells?


 

Yup.

Lambda mentioned the current can go as sky high as 15A if I use that copper mod tailcap and suggested I stick to the stock one:laughing:


----------



## FroggyTaco

calebra said:


> Lambda does mention in his thread that HIS tailcap is instrumental in output and shouldnt be altered for various reasons ...



I would love a link to his thread.


----------



## calebra

FroggyTaco said:


> I would love a link to his thread.


http://flashlightnews.net/forum/index.php?board=43.0


----------



## bigchelis

bigchelis said:


> bigchelis said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I will use this spot to track the donations towards the 16.5in Sphere. paypal is [email protected]
> 
> 
> *SmokeLaw1 = $25= completed.*
> _*Flashfriend = $5 = completed.*_
> *Ti-force $15 = completed.*
> *calebra= $50 = completed.*
> *FroggyTaco $10 = completed.*
> *Vortus $5 = completed.*
> *MiniLux $25 = completed.*
> *RedfishBluefishe $10 = completed*
> *Elho $16 = completed*
> *Gswitter $25 = completed.*
> Total $182.93
> 
> 
> Thank you all for helping me keep this thread going.....it will get interesting now that we can test the big lights too.
Click to expand...


----------



## FroggyTaco

calebra said:


> http://flashlightnews.net/forum/index.php?board=43.0



Thanks...I would never have found it since I only troll here.


----------



## Noctis

elho said:


> To my naked eye it is quite close to my 24W Xenide with diffuser *(and smokes the nalibender SST-90 drop-in* ).


I'll fix that in short order:devil:.

Did you use the Direct Drive or regulated? Single or multi mode? What kind of switch, battery, reflector?


----------



## gswitter

bigchelis said:


> Lambda mentioned the current can go as sky high as 15A if I use that copper mod tailcap and suggested I stick to the stock one:laughing:


Yeah, I remember that... I just didn't expect the copper-strapped VP1K tail to have that much less resistance than the modded VP2K tail. I forgot about the delay in bigC's reading with the VP2K, too. Maybe we can get him to try that again when he gets the bigger sphere set up.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> Okay I will use this spot to track the donations towards the 16.5in Sphere. paypal is [email protected]
> 
> 
> *SmokeLaw1 = $25= completed.*
> _*Flashfriend = $5 = completed.*_
> *Ti-force $15 = completed.*
> *calebra= $50 = completed.*
> *FroggyTaco $10 = completed.*
> *Vortus $5 = completed.*
> *MiniLux $25 = completed.*
> *RedfishBluefishe $10 = completed*
> *Elho $16 = completed*
> *Gswitter $25 = completed.*
> Total $182.93
> 
> 
> Thank you all for helping me keep this thread going.....it will get interesting now that we can test the big lights too.




:twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

I want to thank each and every person who contributed to the purchase of the 24.5in Sphere.

I placed the order and I will be able to test the big lights in about a week. My 1st lights are the Howitzer 3 MC-E moster light and the SR90 SST-90 search light.:thumbsup:


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> I want to thank each and every person who contributed to the purchase of the 24.5in Sphere.
> 
> 
> 
> I placed the order and I will be able to test the big lights in about a week. My 1st lights are the Howitzer 3 MC-E moster light and the SR90 SST-90 search light.







Sweet!:thumbsup:

Hey, would you mind taking an ID measurement for me after it arrives? When you have a chance of course :thumbsup:.


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force said:


> Sweet!:thumbsup:
> 
> Hey, would you mind taking an ID measurement for me after it arrives? When you have a chance of course :thumbsup:.


 

Most definitely.


Oh and I confirmed that the Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 is ready for me to pick-up Wednesday 7:30pm. So, by 11pm my time I plan to have the results published for all to see.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

Please post a link to the new thread (i.e. Actual Lumen Readings in 24.5 in sphere) here once you have it.:twothumbs


----------



## MrGman

ti-force said:


> *SmokeLaw1 = $25= completed.*
> _*Flashfriend = $5 = completed.*_
> *Ti-force $15 = completed.*
> *calebra= $50 = completed.*
> *FroggyTaco $10 = completed.*
> *Vortus $5 = completed.*
> *MiniLux $25 = completed.*
> *RedfishBluefishe $10 = completed*
> *Elho $16 = completed*
> *Gswitter $25 = completed.*
> Total $182.93
> 
> 
> :twothumbs


 

With all the guys who have benefitted from these readings you think more would chip in a mere $5.00 each and get this thing up over the top so big C can take more readings with the bigger sphere. A big congrats to those who stepped up.


----------



## Nitroz

PP sent! It's not much but every little bit counts.

I know I have gleaned a lot of valuable information from your testing and it's great to have people like you to invest your time to provide us with such useful information. I am sure I will use your services soon.

Thanks!:thumbsup:

P.S. I can't wait to see what the triple will do.


----------



## Moddoo

bigchelis said:


> Most definitely.
> 
> 
> Oh and I confirmed that the Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 is ready for me to pick-up Wednesday 7:30pm. So, by 11pm my time I plan to have the results published for all to see.



:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Cool man,

I've been too swamped to make an "extra" to send you

I keep my personal DD XPG triple close by at all times. 

I'll have something new to send you in a few weeks.

Also, I am setting up my own sphere, and would like to confirm that a few lights are testing the same between us.

looking forward to the results.


----------



## bullettproof

On my Lambda Vara 1000 I did the copper wire mod to loose resistance and the performance dropped a lot.I did an ohm test on the spring and its only 1ohm which is amazing.The spring Lambda uses is very good in the tail for sure.

Also Big C Vara 1000 was only pulling 2.6A at the tail and still getting 876 OTF which is amazing.

Im pulling right at 5.1A at the tail fresh off the charger.I have to go down 2-3 levels to keep the SST50 from turning blue. I would say mine is 1k+ Lumens.

I have learned that when charging these Tenergy C cells in series that they like to be charged at 1.5A .I haven't gone higher then that. I can see and notice a difference with output and run time.The MFG. says you can charge them at 3A Max. So if you have a fulla djustable charger like I do give it a try.


----------



## bigchelis

bullettproof said:


> On my Lambda Vara 1000 I did the copper wire mod to loose resistance and the performance dropped a lot.I did an ohm test on the spring and its only 1ohm which is amazing.The spring Lambda uses is very good in the tail for sure.
> 
> Also Big C Vara 1000 was only pulling 2.6A at the tail and still getting 876 OTF which is amazing.
> 
> Im pulling right at 5.1A at the tail fresh off the charger.I have to go down 2-3 levels to keep the SST50 from turning blue. I would say mine is 1k+ Lumens.
> 
> I have learned that when charging these Tenergy C cells in series that they like to be charged at 1.5A .I haven't gone higher then that. I can see and notice a difference with output and run time.The MFG. says you can charge them at 3A Max. So if you have a fulla djustable charger like I do give it a try.


 


I didn't have a chance to test the VARA1000 with a normal tailcap and its back in the owners hands. The good news is Lambda said he would build another one for me and I can take off the center gel like material to see how it affects lumens. I will have to wait a couple months for that one, but at least I get to potentially ruin it with no prejudice.lovecpf


----------



## bullettproof

The Varas are very nice I dont think I could replace it and buy another for the same price from any other Custom Modder on here for its price and features.There are 38 Levels of brightness total yes I counted lol.


----------



## bigchelis

I have been itching to test this Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 real bad. This drop-in is all that and more way more wayyyyyyy more


----------



## psychbeat

dooooooood,
thats INSANE- who says p60s cant do 1000 OTF!
for direct drive its amazing the 3min is so steady..
Im wondering if that van isle quad is gonna be any brighter..

hey BIGC-

would you be into testing a dual XPG R2 4000k Linger Special 2.8A reg?
its kinda small potatoes after that modoo tho.. great tint for muddy
trails compared to the R5s.

Ill send $ for the postage obviously and will make a 10$ contribution
towards setting up the new sphere etc.
there's already AS-5 on the threads 

if you do want to test it shall I send a host too or just
the module?

I also could send an NB 2.5A reg SST50 5700k but I think youve tested
one of those before.

lemme know!


----------



## bigchelis

psychbeat said:


> dooooooood,
> thats INSANE- who says p60s cant do 1000 OTF!
> for direct drive its amazing the 3min is so steady..
> Im wondering if that van isle quad is gonna be any brighter..
> 
> hey BIGC-
> 
> would you be into testing a dual XPG R2 4000k Linger Special 2.8A reg?
> its kinda small potatoes after that modoo tho.. great tint for muddy
> trails compared to the R5s.
> 
> Ill send $ for the postage obviously and will make a 10$ contribution
> towards setting up the new sphere etc.
> there's already AS-5 on the threads
> 
> if you do want to test it shall I send a host too or just
> the module?
> 
> I also could send an NB 2.5A reg SST50 5700k but I think youve tested
> one of those before.
> 
> lemme know!


 

I never thought a P60 could do 1000 OTF, much less stay so stable. 

Send me that Linger Special maybe its a 600 OTF monster. I did test my SST-50 2.5A regulated, but they will all vary a tiny bit. Since you are sending the linger to me go ahead and send the SST-50 too. That way you will know what yours make. 


You can send just the drop-ins or the hosts too, its up to you. I have bored 6P hosts with UCL lens just in case your hosts doesnt have that AR coated lens.


bigC


----------



## csshih

bigchelis said:


>



..........................


----------



## bigchelis

OPPS!!!!!!!!!


Correction:

The cell I used for the Tripple XP-G R5 was an AW 18650 2600mAh not an IMR 18650.

The current at the tail with the AW 2600mAh cell was only 3.2A. With an IMR 18650 its 4A, but I still have to test it and it should be at least 100 more OTF lumens.

bigC


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> I have been itching to test this Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 real bad. This drop-in is all that and more way more wayyyyyyy more



Nice work Moddoo:twothumbs. I'm glad to see someone get everything right and succeed with a P-60 drop-in of this stature:thumbsup:.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Looks like Moddoo can double his asking price and still have a line around the block for these monsters! Unbelievable performance. :devil:


----------



## kramer5150

Question about the L4 Lumamax, K2-TFFC that did ~225 L...
-Was it stock or modded?
-It did those numbers with only 550mah at 8.4V, those are malkoff M60-Q5 efficiency numbers.

Very impressive, I had no idea these were that bright, that efficient, and are RCR123 capable.
With that tight throwing optic, I might have to put this one on my radar.

:twothumbs


----------



## kramer5150

csshih said:


> ..........................



x2...!!! are you freeking kidding me!!! No thermal output drop in a light that small!!!

wow... just WOW!


----------



## Nitroz

bigchelis said:


> OPPS!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> Correction:
> 
> The cell I used for the Tripple XP-G R5 was an AW 18650 2600mAh not an IMR 18650.
> 
> The current at the tail with the AW 2600mAh cell was only 3.2A. With an IMR 18650 its 4A, but I still have to test it and it should be at least 100 more OTF lumens.
> 
> bigC



Wow! That is amazing from just a regular AW cell, now I want one!

How long can it keep that output going? Is that a DD drop-in?


----------



## smokelaw1

I want a Modoo so bad! 1000 stable OTF in a pretty stock-looking 6P? I love that flashlight technology is advancing fast enough to give me giggle fits a couple times a year still. The throw of the Varapower 2K with the dome popped off the led did it to me just at the end of last week!


----------



## yalskey

You know you're a flash-a-holic when...



smokelaw1 said:


> ...gives me giggle fits a couple times a year...


----------



## gswitter

bullettproof said:


> Also Big C Vara 1000 was only pulling 2.6A at the tail and still getting 876 OTF which is amazing.
> 
> Im pulling right at 5.1A at the tail fresh off the charger.I have to go down 2-3 levels to keep the SST50 from turning blue. I would say mine is 1k+ Lumens.


I wouldn't base anything on the current readings at the tails of the VaraPowers. They're direct driven with PWM so the current draw from the battery isn't constant. The sampling rate of just about any multi-meter (not to mention the refresh rate of it's display) is going to be nowhere near as high as the PWM interval rate. How a meter handles current readings that fluctuate much faster than it's sampling rate is anyone guess and probably varies from meter to meter. The VaraPowers are also very sensitive to changes in resistance, and testing current at the tail will likely add some, thereby reducing current.

Every output level of the VaraPowers is current limited by PWM. Lambda mentioned that the max duty cycle that his circuit allows is 99.9%, and a duty cycle that high might allow for accurate current measurements at the tail, but it also might not. Obviously, running on 4.8V, the highest level of the VP2K will be nowhere near 99.9% duty cycle, but the highest level of the VP1K might get up there. Lambda also mentioned that some of the SSR-50's he used had lower than expected Vf, and would overheat when direct-driven by 3x NiMH C cells. So the duty cycles of the highest level of those VP1K's that use the lower Vf emitters will be throttled back.


----------



## csshih

bigchelis said:


> The cell I used for the Tripple XP-G R5 was an AW 18650 2600mAh not an IMR 18650.



ah, let me reiterate...



csshih said:


> ..........................


----------



## Noctis

kramer5150 said:


> x2...!!! are you freeking kidding me!!! No thermal output drop in a light that small!!!
> 
> wow... just WOW!


Kinda makes me wonder how my custom Triple XP-G will perform in comparison.


----------



## bullettproof

ti-force said:


> Nice work Moddoo:twothumbs. I'm glad to see someone get everything right and succeed with a P-60 drop-in of this stature:thumbsup:.




Now that is what I call impressive heat sinking the numbers dont even drop


----------



## FroggyTaco

It just goes to show how important properly heatsinking the led is.


----------



## ti-force

bullettproof said:


> Now that is what I call impressive heat sinking the numbers dont even drop





FroggyTaco said:


> It just goes to show how important properly heatsinking the led is.



+ 10 again:twothumbs. Now, can I get a amen??!!. Seriously though, and yes I'm repeating myself here, but excellent work Moddoo!!!
Also, I think you've started something:bow::bow::candle:


----------



## MrGman

to help put it into perspective, Moddoo has now been able to create a real 1000 lumen out the front light that draws about 12 watts from the batteries that previous LED light configurations using multiple LEDs could not do just a few short years ago running 15 to 20 watts of power. they consumed the power but then you would find out a dissappointing 600 ish lumens that was fading down into the 550 range and really just wasting power. 

It typically takes a 80 to 100 watt light bulb to make a good clean 1000 lumens depending on color temp rating and brand. 

I would love to see the beam pattern on this, is it mostly floodacious? 

Big congrats to Moddoo regardless.


----------



## don.gwapo

Amazing output from moddoo. Wish they were made and sold not in limited production. And everybody here in cpf will be very very happy having this including those who have it already.


----------



## Moddoo

Thanks for all of the kind words guys.

You make it all worth it.

more goods on the way soon.


----------



## bullettproof

Moddoo said:


> Thanks for all of the kind words guys.
> 
> You make it all worth it.
> 
> more goods on the way soon.




You got to figure a way to produce these things. If you do I want one le tme know.:twothumbs


----------



## psychbeat

yeah Im not gonna hold my breath ...
really would like one of these too.

BIG C, I sent you that Linger dual XP-G R2 4000k module
today + 20$ towards the new sphere and return postage
(should only be a couple bux)

I hope it does close to 500OTF at turn on
its 2.8A and looks somewhat (ceiling test)
brighter than my 2.5A sst50 which is 5700k
it gets warm but Ive run it till cutoff with no
problems.

thanks for all of the work!


----------



## bigchelis

You guys want more? Here is the Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 with IMR 18650.


*1260 real OTF Lumens!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## BigHonu

Damn, those are some impressive numbers! Thanks for the work bigc! Great job Moddoo!


----------



## bigchelis

Here are more:


The Mac Customs 1D Mag that looks like it has a Rainbow color fade. It is the one shown to be the lenght of a $1 dollar bill. I get more current and lumens with a single IMR 18650 and IMR C cell vs. a black AW C cell.

I tested another Electrolumens 3 P7 drop-in for Mag lights. The 1st sample I tested a while ago is brighter and has higher current too. What is suprprising is that it gets more current and brighter with the DX protected 25500 cells.


----------



## bigchelis

Now the rest for today:


Download SST-50 light. It has 3 modes and is a Thrusfire thin 18650 light from DX that is Type III and modded by Download. It pulls 2.8A on high and gets warm too.

I got also the EDC P7 by Wayne from Electrolumens. It pulls 4A upon turn-on with an IMR 18650:devil:


----------



## daimleramg

bigchelis said:


> You guys want more? Here is the Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 with IMR 18650.
> 
> 
> *1260 real OTF Lumens!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


 

Are you able to check with larger cells like AW's 26500 or BS's 26650?


----------



## bigchelis

daimleramg said:


> Are you able to check with larger cells like AW's 26500 or BS's 26650?


 

It is not my drop-in and I bet the current would go up with a bigger IMR 26650 or 26500 cell. Plus; I don't have a Fivemega hosts to do so.

bigC


----------



## FroggyTaco

bigchelis said:


> It is not my drop-in and I bet the current would go up with a bigger IMR 26650 or 26500 cell. Plus; I don't have a Fivemega hosts to do so.
> 
> bigC



And moddoo stated in the original thread that an IMR 18650 was pushing the limits of the XP-G's direct driven & suggested that even an 18650 IMR was probably too much current to be considered "safe".


----------



## rickypanecatyl

Do you have a pic of Moddo's 3 XPG light and the heatsinking? (Or is that classified? )


----------



## Nitroz

rickypanecatyl said:


> Do you have a pic of Moddo's 3 XPG light and the heatsinking? (Or is that classified? )



Drool away.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

Wow!!!!


----------



## RedfishBluefish

rickypanecatyl said:


> Wow!!!!


 
Wow's right, fantastic work Moddoo and great job BigC! Thanks MrGman for giving historical perspective, it seems that we are in the "Golden age of Luminosity", can’t wait to see what the next year produces.


----------



## elho

Noctis said:


> Did you use the Direct Drive or regulated? Single or multi mode? What kind of switch, battery, reflector?


 Single mode direct drive, labeled as 700 Lumens. Reflector is default OP, but that is irrelevant, no human can tell the difference in Lumens between OP or smooth with his naked eyes.
The other factors are not too relevant either, because they are identical. Its an OVEREADY SureFire C2 with McClicky, UCL lens and AW P18650 2600mAh cell. Pretty much the same thing as bigchelis used for the measurement.
And the situation does not change if the SST-90 uses an AW IMR cell, the Moddoo triple still wins easily. :thumbsup:


----------



## elho

bullettproof said:


> Now that is what I call impressive heat sinking the numbers dont even drop


You can blindly tell whether there is a triple or any normal drop-in in a host, just by feeling the balance of the host.
Now that is _*cough*_ massively _*cough*_ impressive heatsinking! :twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

psychbeat said:


> dooooooood,
> thats INSANE- who says p60s cant do 1000 OTF!
> for direct drive its amazing the 3min is so steady..
> Im wondering if that van isle quad is gonna be any brighter..
> 
> hey BIGC-
> 
> would you be into testing a dual XPG R2 4000k Linger Special 2.8A reg?
> its kinda small potatoes after that modoo tho.. great tint for muddy
> trails compared to the R5s.
> 
> Ill send $ for the postage obviously and will make a 10$ contribution
> towards setting up the new sphere etc.
> there's already AS-5 on the threads
> 
> if you do want to test it shall I send a host too or just
> the module?
> 
> I also could send an NB 2.5A reg SST50 5700k but I think youve tested
> one of those before.
> 
> lemme know!


 

I just tested this drop-in in my Surefire 6P hosts, UCL lens, IMR 18650 cell, and stock twistie tailcap. I saw the AS5 on the threads and added copper tape for a snug fit in my 6P.

So far it does 576 OTF lumens and the beam tint is really warm too.:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs. I can only imagine it would be 600ish if it had cool 6500k color.

Total Results pending!!!!


----------



## bigchelis

Moddoo posted the resistance of some 6P tailcaps and the McClicky + Brass he and Electroguru offer seem to be the best.

I tested this Nailbender Linger Special P60 drop-in. It is 2 XP-G's that share the P60 reflector and regulated at 2.8A via driver.


Here are my results and it is consistant with Moddoo's discoveries regarding tailcap resistance.:thumbsup:






Please note: The reflector and pill are screwed together with AS5 for added heat transfer and I added copper tape for a snug fit in my 6P.


----------



## elho

MrGman said:


> I would love to see the beam pattern on this, is it mostly floodacious?



Definitely, yes.
I will have beamshots ready sooner or later (of all optics options, too).


----------



## psychbeat

bigchelis said:


> Moddoo posted the resistance of some 6P tailcaps and the McClicky + Brass he and Electroguru offer seem to be the best.
> 
> I tested this Nailbender Linger Special P60 drop-in. It is 2 XP-G's that share the P60 reflector and regulated at 2.8A via driver.
> 
> 
> Here are my results and it is consistant with Moddoo's discoveries regarding tailcap resistance.:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please note: The reflector and pill are screwed together with AS5 for added heat transfer and I added copper tape for a snug fit in my 6P.



RIPPPIIING!!

my EG C2 has a McClicky in it so Ill be getting ~500 WARM out
on the trail. even though technically the 3B tints dont have
a higher CRI Ive done some outdoor testing and its WAAYY
easier to see mud n roots with the 3B 4000k tint over the 
regular cooler tint leds. subjective CRI I guess but real world
CRI is more like it. 

thanks dood!


----------



## daguy80

How hot does the linger dual xpg drop-in get? What kind of lux numbers does it get?


----------



## French_Candle

hello bigchelis !!
thank you for your fantastic job.
Have you measured the lux of the triple XP-G?
:twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

I want to thank all of you who donated towards the bigger sphere purchase. I got it today and wholly cow its big. 

Before I begin the long task of calibrating it I wanted to show for size referrrence the oroginal 10.5in vs. the 24.5in Sphere.

The port hole in the big sphere is 4.5in and barely allows the Howitzer light to fit. The Howitzer uses 3 MC-E driven at full power.







Here is the tally of the donations and the contributors that made it happen. P.S.The zebra longchair was my girls Idea



*SmokeLaw1 = $25= completed.*
_*Flashfriend = $5 = completed.*_
*Ti-force $15 = completed.*
*calebra= $50 = completed.*
*FroggyTaco $10 = completed.*
*Vortus $5 = completed.*
*MiniLux $25 = completed.*
*RedfishBluefishe $10 = completed*
*Elho $16 = completed*
*Gswitter $25 = completed.*
*JVOT $ 50 = Completed*
*Psychbeat $20 = Completed*
*Nitroz $4*
*Total $263.93 at this rate I can have my meter re-calibrated in 6 months.*


----------



## bigchelis

French_Candle said:


> hello bigchelis !!
> thank you for your fantastic job.
> Have you measured the lux of the triple XP-G?
> :twothumbs


 

It is a wall of light!!! I can do it, but it will be very little for sure or will it


----------



## daguy80

bigchelis said:


> It is a wall of light!!! I can do it, but it will be very little for sure or will it


Can you measure the lux for the linger dual xpg drop-in as well?


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> P.S.The zebra longchair was my girls Idea



I was just about to rib  you until I read the p.s.


----------



## bigchelis

This is the 1st set of lights I have tested with the 24.5in Sphere. It appears to be just right, but I may tweak a bit more which will result in as much as 1% difference.

For now its good to go. I did test the Lambda VARA2000 and it is over 1800 OTF at 1sec and still is 1550ish at 20 seconds:twothumbs. The Vara2000 is the brighters light I have tested and using the same calibration, 24.5in Sphere, and Meter it is still brighter then the SR90 and Howitzer. 








*NOTE:* I removed the tactical bezel from the Olight SR90, but managed to keep the glass in place. The lumens go up about 200 OTF. I suspect the tactical teech are taking up a little bit of the spill area because the lux figures where identical with/without tactical teeth bezel.


----------



## bigchelis

The Calculated 1 meter Lux figures for Moddoo and Linger Special:

Modoo Tripple with IMR 18650 = 8775
Modoo Tripple with AW 18650 = 7075
Linger Special with IMR 18650 = 2500


----------



## don.gwapo

Big C,

Have you tested the Nailbender Custom Lites SST-90 drop-in for OTF? Sorry if I miss it. Thanks.


----------



## flashfiend

BigC, Are you going to be testing the FM1909 bulb again as well? I thought that also hit the limit on the 10.5in Sphere. Just wondering what the max numbers for that bulb are.


----------



## bigchelis

don.gwapo said:


> Big C,
> 
> Have you tested the Nailbender Custom Lites SST-90 drop-in for OTF? Sorry if I miss it. Thanks.


 


The SST-90 by Nailbender: I never had a chance to test or sample one yet.


My FM1909 is gone. I was thinking of testing it again, but I really need that voltage regulator to do it justice.


----------



## flashfiend

bigchelis said:


> The SST-90 by Nailbender: I never had a chance to test or sample one yet.
> 
> 
> My FM1909 is gone. I was thinking of testing it again, but I really need that voltage regulator to do it justice.



Well that's a bummer about the FM1909. What setup did you have it in and what regulator were you thinking of using?

Btw, summer break is approaching and I have both the FM1909 and the Nb sst-90 (de-domed though) and would be interested in setting up an appointment for testing. I am a little apprehensive about putting an incan in the new IS setup. I don't want to be responsible for damaging the new sphere.


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> *The SST-90 by Nailbender: I never had a chance to test or sample one yet.*
> 
> 
> My FM1909 is gone. I was thinking of testing it again, but I really need that voltage regulator to do it justice.


I'll send you my direct drive light once I can get the switches to stop melting down.


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> Well that's a bummer about the FM1909. What setup did you have it in and what regulator were you thinking of using?
> 
> Btw, summer break is approaching and I have both the FM1909 and the Nb sst-90 (de-domed though) and would be interested in setting up an appointment for testing. I am a little apprehensive about putting an incan in the new IS setup. I don't want to be responsible for damaging the new sphere.


 

Let me know when you are ready and we can test those.

JustinCase has these regulators he purchases from AlanB. What it does is buck the voltage so that the incandescent lamps get a constant voltage input. It is a regulated incandescent:thumbsup: I think this way the FM1909 would show 2000 OTF and stay put too.

bigC


----------



## flashfiend

Yeah I was looking at getting an AlanB regulator for an Elephant II build I'm considering but unfortunately he is understandably unavailable and the list is long. I am willing to wait if he would consider adding me to the list.

I would love to see what the FM1909 could do in a regulated setup but as far as I understand this requires 4x IMR cells (or a 4D FM AA adapter) to have sufficient voltage to run correctly.


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> Yeah I was looking at getting an AlanB regulator for an Elephant II build I'm considering but unfortunately he is understandably unavailable and the list is long. I am willing to wait if he would consider adding me to the list.
> 
> I would love to see what the FM1909 could do in a regulated setup but as far as I understand this requires 4x IMR cells (or a 4D FM AA adapter) to have sufficient voltage to run correctly.


 
No waiting required just shoot Justin Case a PM and he should have enought to set you up ASAP.

4 IMR C cells fit nice in a 3D Mag:twothumbs


----------



## flashfiend

I believe Justin Case is using the JimmyM not the Alan B regulator. They are similar but different. JimmyM uses a modifiied stock switch as a base and Alan B uses an aluminum sled to house the switch.

Btw, can you clarify in your incan thread which are the true measurements for the Poor Man 1909?


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> I believe Justin Case is using the JimmyM not the Alan B regulator. They are similar but different. JimmyM uses a modifiied stock switch as a base and Alan B uses an aluminum sled to house the switch.
> 
> Btw, can you clarify in your incan thread which are the true measurements for the Poor Man 1909?


 

Both are. One was with a stock 2D Mag and the other was a 2D Mag with KIU Socket which is suppose to have less resistance and if you notice the lumens went up too.


----------



## flashfiend

bigchelis said:


> Both are. One was with a stock 2D Mag and the other was a 2D Mag with KIU Socket which is suppose to have less resistance and if you notice the lumens went up too.



I guess when I say true I should have said highest. I wonder what the beam pattern difference was between the JC5607 and the FM1909?


----------



## bullettproof

I have been playing around with the SST90 D36 dropin which is DD. I have been able to get as much as 5.5A out of it doing some tricks. I must say that theis dropin is only good for upto 4A of current anymore and the light will start to loose OTF Lumens from heat issues.If you use Copper Tape or Arctic Silver Im sure it would help.

My conclusion running a FM D36 Host and 1x26650 battery is the light works awesome between 3.5A-4A .It is definitely brighter then the sst50 version NB offers.If I had to do it again I would go with the 90 first in SMO.

The highest bin 90 at 3.2A is 1000Lumens at the emmiter. If I had to guess I would say the light is around 700+ OTF which isnt bad for a light thats only 6" long.


----------



## flashfiend

My experience is the same as bulletproof, 4 amps out of a DD sst-90. IMO this is sufficient for a P60 drop-in unless better heatsinking were provided.


----------



## bullettproof

FM D36 SST90 DD 1x26650 

The hotspot is huge on this light and it throws Amazing the SST90 just throws with lots of spill.The D36 performs much better then any D26 Ive seen.
Beam Shot





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## bullettproof

Macs EDC SST50 2.8A IMR Battery

Awesome pocket rocket almost identical in size to a RA Clicky.Heatsinking is awesome with Mac's custom heatsink!!!
Notice how even the beam is the reflector is deeper then most lights its size but op.Very nice spill beam and overall quality.


HI 2800MA IMR battery




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Medium 1400ma




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

LO 300ma




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## flashfiend

That Mac light sure is handsomely bright.


----------



## bullettproof

Yes it is I would say its 600 otf lumens it reminds me of a Linger R5 but with 25% more throw.As you can see it has lots of flood but the reflector gives it such a nice transition it appears to be brighter in closer distances due to its strong flood.


----------



## daguy80

Big C, 
Have you measured the lux numbers for the Thrunite xpg 1.5 p60 drop-ins?


----------



## bigchelis

daguy80 said:


> Big C,
> Have you measured the lux numbers for the Thrunite xpg 1.5 p60 drop-ins?


 

Its an OP P60 reflectored XP-G, so not much different then the already tested XP-G Nailbender, Anto, Dereelight, and Thrunite.


----------



## bigchelis

I got this light, but I don't recall what it is or who to send it back to.:laughing:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=226754


What I do remember is that it has an XP-G R5 with a 1.5A driver and I was expecting 400 OTF. Here is what it did with a UCL lens, stock lens, and 2 different cells.







Here are some pics of the light to help identify it: Please help.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> I got this light, but I don't recall what it is or who to send it back to.:laughing:
> 
> 
> Here are some pics of the light to help identify it: Please help.



 Now that's when you know you're testing a *LOT* of lights.


----------



## FroggyTaco

bigchelis said:


> I got this light, but I don't recall what it is or who to send it back to.:laughing:
> 
> Travis Dawes,
> PM me as I do not have your address and need the info on this light.
> 
> 
> What I do remember is that it has an XP-G R5 with a 1.5A driver and I was expecting 400 OTF. Here is what it did with a UCL lens, stock lens, and 2 different cells.
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some pics of the light to help identify it: Please help.



PM sent..That is funny & scary at the same time!


----------



## bullettproof

Big C I would bet that light you just tested has an R4 in it not R5.


----------



## bigchelis

bullettproof said:


> Big C I would bet that light you just tested has an R4 in it not R5.


 

It was sold as an XP-G R5. I did notice the heatsink...well its not there. Seriously; it has a paper thin heatsink and some thermal paste to help with the heat. On the plus it is really nice and feels good in the hand. The tail end is 6P compatible and you can put a G2 UCL lens from lighthoud.com too.


----------



## bullettproof

No good heat sink poor performance.I bet if it had a nice big chunk in there it would had done better.Proof is the Moddoo 3X.


----------



## QtrHorse

Edited Post


----------



## Noctis

bullettproof said:


> No good heat sink poor performance.I bet if it had a nice big chunk in there it would had done better.Proof is the Moddoo 3X.


Even if it's driven at 1.5A, isn't heatsinking a little overkill with a single XP-G?
My M61 only draws about 0.9A, but it barely even gets warm after 10 minutes.

I'd only be concerned about heatsinking at 2A or more.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Even if it's driven at 1.5A, isn't heatsinking a little overkill with a single XP-G?
> My M61 only draws about 0.9A, but it barely even gets warm after 10 minutes.
> 
> I'd only be concerned about heatsinking at 2A or more.


 

From .9A to 1.5A its a whole other animal. I have noticed that anything at 1A and up needs to have a good amount of effective heatsinking. For SST-50 and SST-90 Mag builds so far offer the best hosts because you can stuff them with massive heatsinks.





Oh, I just remembered... I had a 1D Mag R2 built by Nailbender and powered by a li-on D cell. This build had a 1.4A driver and made 160~170 OTF, then I sent it back to him for a 1.2A driver swap and I got 240 OTF.


----------



## 021411

bigchelis, how do I go about sending you some stuff to measure? I'll kindly donate to the cause as well..

1. Thrunite Catapult V2
2. Nailbender SST-90 P60 one mode regulated drop-in
3. Surefire X300
4. Surefire LX2
5. Malkoff M61 drop-in

I couldn't find #3+4 on your list of tested lights...


----------



## FroggyTaco

He will just PM you his address & then it's on! Doesn't get any easier actually. I have done this twice already.

He hasn't tested 3,4,or 5 IIRC.


----------



## recDNA

BigC - How long were you able to run the Moddoo triple XP-G before it got too hot?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> BigC - How long were you able to run the Moddoo triple XP-G before it got too hot?


 


It was on loan to me so I did just up to 3 minutes. 

The Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 doesn't even get warm...not even with the IMR 18650. I don't know why, but it just doesn't get warm:thinking:


----------



## bigchelis

021411 said:


> bigchelis, how do I go about sending you some stuff to measure? I'll kindly donate to the cause as well..
> 
> 1. Thrunite Catapult V2
> 2. Nailbender SST-90 P60 one mode regulated drop-in
> 3. Surefire X300
> 4. Surefire LX2
> 5. Malkoff M61 drop-in
> 
> I couldn't find #3+4 on your list of tested lights...


 

PM sent.


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> It was on loan to me so I did just up to 3 minutes.
> 
> The Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 doesn't even get warm...not even with the IMR 18650. I don't know why, but it just doesn't get warm:thinking:


(With an evil air)This pleases me.:devil:

I'm thinking another Triple using a pure copper heatsink would be overkill compared to the original with an aluminum heatsink.

I'd love to stick an SST-90 emitter on that heatsink and see how it handles the heat.


----------



## 021411

Big C... PM replied. It's happening!!! I'm boxing up the stuff right now. 

Here's what he is getting for testing since these are what I use for work. Hosts are as-in with no modifications so this is the real deal without fluffing (UCL's, aftermarket switches, etc). 

1. Solarforce L2P host with Nailbender SST-90 one mode regulated drop-in. The one mode drivers are 2.8A iirc.. 
2. Thrunite Catapult V2 
3. Surefire Z2 host with Malkoff M61
4. Surefire X300 weapon light (rated "110" lumens)
5. Surefire LX2 (rated "200 lumens")


----------



## recDNA

Thanks! I've been anxious to see the data on exactly what you have! That's like my darn wish list sitting in front of me. 4/5 are the 4 lights I'm thinking of buying right now. The Nailbender SST-90 was the first on my list. I'm very curious to see how it does.


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> The Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 doesn't even get warm...not even with the IMR 18650. I don't know why, but it just doesn't get warm:thinking:


Oh, it does. I'm only using it with AW P18650 as per specs (and prefer the average output they provide for a longer time over the short peak of the IMR cells anyway), but it does get pretty warm during constant handheld use and quite hot if you put it aside for one or two minutes or so.
Not that you can not hold it at that point, but you know that you better firmly hold it to get the heat away from the host.
And the host getting hot actually is what one would expect from working heatsinking.


----------



## elho

Ok, decided to do a quick test run, Moddoo Triple on a AW P18650 in OVEREADY SureFire C2 with McClicky sitting on its clip on a table:

1min feeling a slightly higher temperature at the head
2min head and body warm
3min head hot, body warm
4min head quite hot (after 5 seconds of holding it starts to hurt)


----------



## recDNA

elho said:


> Ok, decided to do a quick test run, Moddoo Triple on a AW P18650 in OVEREADY SureFire C2 with McClicky sitting on its clip on a table:
> 
> 1min feeling a slightly higher temperature at the head
> 2min head and body warm
> 3min head hot, body warm
> 4min head quite hot (after 5 seconds of holding it starts to hurt)


 

Thanks. Maybe your amps at the tailcap are higher than BigC's? That would explain the difference.

Unfortunately, it's only curiosity that makes me ask. They're all sold out anyway aren't they?

BTW, do you know if it is possible to purchase a McClicky with brass all assembled without sending him a tailcap to mod? In other words does he make any from a Surefire tailcap then sell them all assembled? Seems like kind of a pain to send in my tailcap and the diy instructions sound too hard too me. I'd rather keep my normal twisty tailcap for my 6P and have the option of using the McClicky when and if I like.

Very nice of you to run that test. Thanks again. You're lucky you got one!


----------



## bigchelis

I was concerned the bezel and body werent getting warm with the Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5, but then the OTF numbers told me not to worry. I did notice the body of the C2 and the bezel equal temperature on the sample I borrowed. At 3 minutes with that IMR cell it started to get warm, but the linger special 2.8A gets warmer to the feel.


I wouldn't worry about the lack of heat on the Moddoo Tripple because the OTF lumens are spectacular, but it is driving me crazy trying to explain why.


----------



## Casper507

bigchelis said:


> I got this light, but I don't recall what it is or who to send it back to.:laughing:
> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=226754
> 
> 
> What I do remember is that it has an XP-G R5 with a 1.5A driver and I was expecting 400 OTF. Here is what it did with a UCL lens, stock lens, and 2 different cells.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some pics of the light to help identify it: Please help.


Wow, Who, what where and how much? I haven't seen this one before. The switch and grip ring look distinctive.


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> I was concerned the bezel and body werent getting warm with the Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5, but then the OTF numbers told me not to worry. I did notice the body of the C2 and the bezel equal temperature on the sample I borrowed. At 3 minutes with that IMR cell it started to get warm, but the linger special 2.8A gets warmer to the feel.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't worry about the lack of heat on the Moddoo Tripple because the OTF lumens are spectacular, but it is driving me crazy trying to explain why.


I believe you answered this yourself.

When I mentioned the utter lack of heat from my Malkoff M61 which was drawing about 0.89 amps, you said there was a big jump in heat generation from 0.9A to 1.4A.

Since you were drawing 3.2A in your test, each emitter would get less than 1.1A.

I'd say your current draw is great for maximum efficiency. At 4.5A draw, the lumens might drop a whole lot faster with more heat.


----------



## elho

recDNA said:


> Thanks. Maybe your amps at the tailcap are higher than BigC's? That would explain the difference.


Unless my light magically cleaned itself during the last days instead of getting worse, no. Back then, when bigchells posted his (lower than expected) current reading, I did measure mine and it was right about the same level. I thought I also did post that either here or in the Triple thread, but can not quickly find it now... :thinking: :sigh:



recDNA said:


> They're all sold out anyway aren't they?


 The last batch of the 30 units that are going to be made still has to be made, but they're all reserved and the waiting list is triple (pun intended ) that number ever since it has been closed half a year ago, or something.
I'm just happy that I did say "I'll take an XP-G unit once you make one" at the time of the second XP-E batch. 



recDNA said:


> BTW, do you know if it is possible to purchase a McClicky with brass all assembled without sending him a tailcap to mod?


Yes it is. I was confused by the different colored tailcaps having disappeared a while back, too, but that just means than you can't choose between different shades of factory HA anymore. (Instead of having to decide whether gray1, gray2 or one of green1 to green4 will probably match your body best.  But that is of no concern to you with a 6P anyway.)



recDNA said:


> Very nice of you to run that test. Thanks again.


No problem, that was a quick one anyway. I still have to do beamshots - been intending to do since I received the Triple, but either had no time (in the evening or the next morning ) or it was raining like the last nights.


----------



## Noctis

Hi Jose,

I was wondering if you got my light yet(Surefire 6P w/NB SST-90 DD). Beamshots would be wonderful if you have the time.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Hi Jose,
> 
> I was wondering if you got my light yet(Surefire 6P w/NB SST-90 DD). Beamshots would be wonderful if you have the time.


 

I got it. The McClicky gets rid of the resistance really well too. I tested my Nailbender Linger special regulated 2.8A and with your tailcap it makes the tint turn-blue, but with stock twistie it runs perfect.:thinking:


----------



## bigchelis

Here is the Malkoff Devices WildCat XP-G R5 Tripple


I don't have AW 18500 cells to test, but I am working on that.:thumbsup:


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> The McClicky gets rid of the resistance really well too. I tested my Nailbender Linger special regulated 2.8A and with your tailcap it makes the tint turn-blue, but with stock twistie it runs perfect.:thinking:


Yes, the stock Z41 twisty turned out to have a relatively high resistance, when Moddoo did a comparison.
What indeed makes me wonder, too, is that this should of course make no difference with a regulated light. :thinking:


----------



## Noctis

elho said:


> Yes, the stock Z41 twisty turned out to have a relatively high resistance, when Moddoo did a comparison.
> What indeed makes me wonder, too, is that this should of course make no difference with a regulated light. :thinking:


It's never really been clear to me how regulation works, but I suspect all it does is to limit the current running through rather than keeping the current from falling below a certain level.

If the resistance is high enough to restrict the current draw down to about 2 amps, then the module would only draw 2 amps even if it's regulated for 2.8A.

But if the resistance is near zero(say, with a solid piece of copper instead of a spring) and the light would draw 10A in direct drive, then regulation would force the current to drop to 2.8A.

That's what I'm thinking anyways. It would be interesting to put regulation on the Moddoo Triple so that it runs with 4.5A and then lower the resistance down to nothing. At the very least that ought to minimize sag from the battery while making sure it doesn't draw enough current to damage the emitters or the battery.


----------



## jaundice

bigchelis said:


> Here is the Malkoff Devices WildCat XP-G R5 Tripple
> 
> 
> I don't have AW 18500 cells to test, but I am working on that.:thumbsup:


 
Jose;

Do you need me to bring over a pair of IMR 18500s? I'd be happy to do so, later this week. I'd love to get a chance to check out the Wildcat Triple in person.

-John


----------



## elho

Noctis said:


> It's never really been clear to me how regulation works, but I suspect all it does is to limit the current running through rather than keeping the current from falling below a certain level.


That depends on the type of regulation, you described a buck regulator (or a linear one, which limits current by burning excess voltage).
The whole point however is, that it as you say is supposed to limit the current to 2.8A at which the two XP-Gs are not supposed to become blue unless something is wrong.
There might be a problem with heatsinking of that particular drop-in (was it installed without the outer spring to have the brass base make direct contact with the host?) or it might be an unlucky pick of very different Vf for the LEDs so that one of them gets a notably higher current and turns blue, or.... :thinking:
If it was a fundamental problem of a LiIon cell having too low a voltage to go into regulation with that driver, then 2xCR123 should, even when sagging down quite a bit, have high enough a voltage to reach regulation and would make the LEDs turn blue, too. With probably quite some happpy Linger Special users on 2xCR123 out there, that theory sounds unlikely. Also note that the Z41 twisty turned out quite bad, a Z59 clicky is much closer to a McClicky, so it is also likely, that Z59 (and other non-SureFire) users could face that problem with LiIon cells which also does not seem to be the case.



Noctis said:


> It would be interesting to put regulation on the Moddoo Triple so that it runs with 4.5A and then lower the resistance down to nothing. At the very least that ought to minimize sag from the battery while making sure it doesn't draw enough current to damage the emitters or the battery.


No. You first have to lower resistance in the host before it draws that much.  You of course can not reduce it to noting and it will not affect battery voltage sag (unless you lower the internal resistance of the battery), only total voltage sag as seen from the LEDs.


----------



## bigchelis

Okay just a quick update:


I have a Nailbender Cool White Tint Linger Special and tested it stock as received from Nailbender. My unit has a 2.8A driver too.


I put a McClicky switch and the tint turns blue:mecry:, then I put Arctic Silver 5 on the threads and I get less lumens:mecry::mecry::mecry:


I changed hosts bezels and multiple clickies/twisties to try and see whats wrong, but I still get 2.8A at the tail and the lumens are still less then when I got it.



bigC


----------



## gswitter

I imagine this has been covered elsewhere, but I'm curious...

I assume the Linger Special has the LEDs wired in parallel like the Moddoo triple? Do either the Linger Special or the Moddoo triple do anything to limit the current to the individual LEDs? Do the builders do anything to ensure the Vf of the LEDs are balanced?


----------



## bigchelis

Here is a Nailbender SST-90 P60 drop-in with a UCL lens and 6P hosts (bored for 18650 cells). The owner sent it with copper tape and AS5 on the threads so, I never tested it without those things.


----------



## bigchelis

Here is my Nailbender Linger Special cool tint with 2.8A driver, which provides 1.4A to each XP-G R5. 

Please Note: That the AS5 readings were taken after the tint turned blue. I shut it off right away, but it should have never happened because its regulated and 2nd it may explain why I get less overall lumens.






The warm Linger Special with same 2.8A driver


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> Here is a Nailbender SST-90 P60 drop-in with a UCL lens and 6P hosts (bored for 18650 cells). The owner sent it with copper tape and AS5 on the threads so, I never tested it without those things.


I feel so proud:twothumbs.
Though it seems like running the Li-Co cell is more beneficial in the long run due to less sag and heat.


----------



## gswitter

bigchelis said:


> Please Note: That the AS5 readings were taken after the tint turned blue. I shut it off right away, but it should have never happened because its regulated and 2nd it may explain why I get less overall lumens.


And, again, I'll ask...

Are the emitters on the Linger Special wired in parallel? (Attempting to drive them at 2.8A suggests they are.) And, is the current to the individual emitters limited in any way? (I doubt it.) So did Linger, Nailbender or whomever put those emitters on the board check the Vf of the emitters to ensure they were equal (or extremely close)?

At 2.8A, you're close to the recommended limit for the XP-G. If there's a significant difference in Vf of the two emitters (and at 1.4A, even a small difference can be significant), one of the emitters is probably drawing significantly more current than the other, overheating and there's your angry blue.


----------



## bigchelis

gswitter said:


> And, again, I'll ask...
> 
> Are the emitters on the Linger Special wired in parallel? (Attempting to drive them at 2.8A suggests they are.) And, is the current to the individual emitters limited in any way? (I doubt it.) So did Linger, Nailbender or whomever put those emitters on the board check the Vf of the emitters to ensure they were equal (or extremely close)?
> 
> At 2.8A, you're close to the recommended limit for the XP-G. If there's a significant difference in Vf of the two emitters (and at 1.4A, even a small difference can be significant), one of the emitters is probably drawing significantly more current than the other, overheating and there's your angry blue.


 

The only way to get the 2 XP-G R5's to work off a single cell is if they are wired in parallel. I highly doubt that Nailbender would have matched to the best of his ability two emitters with close vf and this is probably why I saw the blue tint. 

I didn't think that having one emitter with more vf (even just a bit) would have caused such a disparity in current dristribution, but it makes perfect sense now. Otherwise; a regulated 1.4A XP-G R5 would never have turned blue.


----------



## elho

Noctis said:


> Though it seems like running the Li-Co cell is more beneficial in the long run due to less sag and heat.


Definitely. At 30 seconds, the difference in Lumens already is less than 10% and IIRC 10% difference is what it takes for a human to actually recognize (or even tell apart? :thinking.
Either way, the IMRs are nice to get a high peak reading, but in practice the runtime advantage of the LiIons is a much stronger argument.

Nice to see the nailbender drop-ins to hit the magic 1000 Lumen mark, even if just briefly. :thumbsup:


----------



## elho

gswitter said:


> And, again, I'll ask...


Two posts before your first question which I also just read:


elho said:


> it might be an unlucky pick of very different Vf for the LEDs so that one of them gets a notably higher current and turns blue



And to specifically answer all of your questions:
The LEDs are in parallel, there is no "extra current limiting" (which in fact would be individual drivers). Linger had the idea to cram two XP-Gs into one reflector opening and approached nailbender with that idea, who picked it up and started to build the "Linger Special" as he liked the result.
I'm pretty sure nailbender does no Vf testing, I previously approached him about the possibility of it, but he refused to do the extra work of testing a whole bunch of LEDs instead of just taking the next one on the roll.
Given how interest in his drop-ins has risen since then, he would not have the time to do anything like that these days either.
But most importantly, he is very helpful, so if you have a problem like that with one of his drop-ins, approach him and I am sure he will find a solution for it.


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> The only way to get the 2 XP-G R5's to work off a single cell is if they are wired in parallel.


No, you could design a driver with two individual 1.4A outputs, or simply connect two individual 1.4A drivers in parallel to the battery and connect one LED to each. In practice just wiring them in parallel to an existing single driver is of course a lot easier.



bigchelis said:


> I didn't think that having one emitter with more vf (even just a bit) would have caused such a disparity in current dristribution


Just a bit obviously does not make such a dramatic difference, or every Linger Special out there had that problem. I think Vf can vary quite a bit and that drop-in might be a very unlucky pick of one LED with relatively high Vf and another with relatively low Vf. Put together you suddenly get quite a difference.
Furthermore, the higher currents you deal with (at such low voltages), the more difference a slight difference in resistance makes.


----------



## psychbeat

Nice to see the nailbender drop-ins to hit the magic 1000 Lumen mark, even if just briefly. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]


Yeah! PROPS to Noctis too for the research and BURNING sh!t up!!
:twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

elho said:


> No, you could design a driver with two individual 1.4A outputs, or simply connect two individual 1.4A drivers in parallel to the battery and connect one LED to each. In practice just wiring them in parallel to an existing single driver is of course a lot easier.
> 
> 
> Just a bit obviously does not make such a dramatic difference, or every Linger Special out there had that problem. I think Vf can vary quite a bit and that drop-in might be a very unlucky pick of one LED with relatively high Vf and another with relatively low Vf. Put together you suddenly get quite a difference.
> Furthermore, the higher currents you deal with (at such low voltages), the more difference a slight difference in resistance makes.


 
Maybe I should bug Nailbender for an exchange and perhaps the next one will be somewhat better:naughty:


----------



## psychbeat

i still think it would be cool on the Linger if there was
a way to shorten the reflector and add some kind of 
copper slug to it...
the reflector dosent need to be big since its a flood 
light anyways right?

just an idea...

hope my warm one never turns blue on me 

probably safe - ive run it til cutoff multiple times..


----------



## Moddoo

I have not tried the linger special unit yet.

But, I do want to bring up 1 important feature:

The 2 XPG are mounted on a single board, and this board only has a solder connection to about 1/2 of the thermal pad on each emitter.

This means that the heat from the emitters cannot be drawn away as well as it can be when a single emitter has complete contact to the MCPCB.

This may be part of the problem that you are seeing.


----------



## csshih

elho said:


> Definitely. At 30 seconds, the difference in Lumens already is less than 10% and IIRC 10% difference is what it takes for a human to actually recognize (or even tell apart? :thinking.



more like 30%, it feels. :shrug:


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> Maybe I should bug Nailbender for an exchange and perhaps the next one will be somewhat better:naughty:


 

Hey BigC! How about updating your data in GoogleDocs?


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I have been itching to test this Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5 real bad. This drop-in is all that and more way more wayyyyyyy more


 
I can't tell you how broken hearted I am that I missed out on this one.


----------



## JCD

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Deleted


----------



## Nitroz

recDNA said:


> I can't tell you how broken hearted I am that I missed out on this one.



You and everyone else.


----------



## bigchelis

Nitroz said:


> You and everyone else.


 


Well the you better sign up for the XP-G R5 Quad....Its not Moddoo's but at $155 you get 4 XP-G R5's driven at 1A~1.2A each so no problem using big IMR 26650 cells

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/267366


----------



## gswitter

bigchelis said:


> The only way to get the 2 XP-G R5's to work off a single cell is if they are wired in parallel. I highly doubt that Nailbender would have matched to the best of his ability two emitters with close vf and this is probably why I saw the blue tint.


 There are drivers out there (like Surefire's Lux V drivers from the KL4, U2, etc) that could easily drive a pair of XP-G's in series with a single Li-ion.

Ultimately the angry blue you're seeing is a heat sinking issue, but it's likely accelerated by a difference in Vf of the two emitters.



> I didn't think that having one emitter with more vf (even just a bit) would have caused such a disparity in current dristribution, but it makes perfect sense now. Otherwise; a regulated 1.4A XP-G R5 would never have turned blue.


The XLamp binning sheet shows the Vf bins have a range of .25V. I doubt the distribution is even throughout that range, but pair enough emitters together without matching the Vf's and you'll eventually get a pair with a significant difference.

Now consider the Vf/If graph in the XP-G data sheet. If you start with a pair of emitters at opposite ends of their Vf bin (the aforementioned difference of .25V) and you drive them in parallel at 2.8A, the difference in If could be nearly an amp. Ouch. Even a difference in Vf @ 350mA of .1V would result in a difference in If when driven to a combined 2.8A of 300-400mA, and one of the emitters will be seeing 1.6A. 

There's nothing inherently wrong with the Linger Special, but driving it at 2.8A doesn't leave enough headroom to accommodate these differences in Vf.


----------



## jac2001

021411 said:


> Big C... PM replied. It's happening!!! I'm boxing up the stuff right now.
> 
> Here's what he is getting for testing since these are what I use for work. Hosts are as-in with no modifications so this is the real deal without fluffing (UCL's, aftermarket switches, etc).
> 
> 1. Solarforce L2P host with Nailbender SST-90 one mode regulated drop-in. The one mode drivers are 2.8A iirc..
> 2. Thrunite Catapult V2
> 3. Surefire Z2 host with Malkoff M61
> 4. Surefire X300 weapon light (rated "110" lumens)
> _*5. Surefire LX2 (rated "200 lumens")*_


----------



## 021411

BigC, my lights should be delivered today. Shoot me a pm when you get them. I'll send you the donation and return shipping $$.


----------



## orbital

+

Big C, thanks for your work on the lumen readings.

*Please *consider making this list alphabetical,
getting serious _vertigo_ scrolling through the list...:duh2:


----------



## ti-force

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Big C, thanks for your work on the lumen readings.
> 
> *Please *consider making this list alphabetical,
> getting serious _vertigo_ scrolling through the list...:duh2:



An alphabetical list sounds like a good idea. Why don't you get started on that? The list is already there.:thumbsup:


----------



## flashfiend

ti-force said:


> An alphabetical list sounds like a good idea. Why don't you get started on that? The list is already there.:thumbsup:



No way to use data sort to accomplish this?


----------



## ti-force

flashfiend said:


> No way to use data sort to accomplish this?



Not with the spreadsheets I made for BigC. I made them in Photoshop from scratch. If BigC wants to, that's fine, but personally I'm just thankful that he's giving us all of this data. I know it would be nice to have it sorted somehow, but I really don't think BigC has found anything that works with this forum and doesn't take more time to enter the data than to measure the data.


----------



## bigchelis

It is a ton of data and I was thinking of organizing it better.


P60 drop-ins
Mag builds
Stock lights by Alphabetical order
Thats about it, since most everything falls in these 3 categories.


----------



## flashfiend

How about LED category?


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

bigchelis said:


> It is a ton of data and I was thinking of organizing it better.
> 
> 
> P60 drop-ins
> Mag builds
> Stock lights by Alphabetical order
> Thats about it, since most everything falls in these 3 categories.


 
Likey!


----------



## ti-force

flashfiend said:


> How about LED category?



Wouldn't that still require scrolling through the entire list to find the brand? If it's going to be done, I think alphabetical by manufacturer (in each category) would probably be best. Just my opinion.


----------



## ti-force

Double post. Darn dumbphone.


----------



## flashfiend

ti-force said:


> Wouldn't that still require scrolling through the entire list to find the brand? If it's going to be done, I think alphabetical by manufacturer (in each category) would probably be best. Just my opinion.



Sure if I cared about manufacturer. But I want to compare LED performance in different host types (i.e. P60, Mag) not manufacturer


----------



## ti-force

flashfiend said:


> Sure if I cared about manufacturer. But I want to compare LED performance in different host types (i.e. P60, Mag) not manufacturer



I'd be willing to bet most people who read this are more interested in seeing how a light that they can purchase will perform, so are you saying those people should have to know what emitter is in the light, search that emitter, then sort through that to find the light they're interested in?:thinking:


----------



## psychbeat

^^word!

I like the host category idea.

I also like how our ole P60 modules
are keeping up with and even beating 
a lot of the larger stock lights.

Im so attached to my EG C2 Id hate to have
to give it up and its lighter to just carry extra 
18650s if I need runtime. I figure a C2 with
2 extra 18650s is lighter and easier to deal with
than a TK40 and about the same output with
a good module.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> It is a ton of data and I was thinking of organizing it better.
> 
> 
> P60 drop-ins
> Mag builds
> Stock lights by Alphabetical order
> Thats about it, since most everything falls in these 3 categories.


 
If you do it in Excel or even Word you could easily upload the file into GoogleDocs allowing quick search. Of course you could just type it into a post also but then it's tough to format.


----------



## ti-force

Categorizing by LED type would probably work in the p-60 category, but I don't think all of the lights should be categorized that way. IMO


----------



## ti-force

psychbeat said:


> I also like how our ole P60 modules
> are keeping up with and even beating
> a lot of the larger stock lights.



That's what happens when you do everything right like Moddoo (thermal management and everything else. .....)


----------



## flashfiend

ti-force said:


> I'd be willing to bet most people who read this are more interested in seeing how a light that they can purchase will perform, so are you saying those people should have to know what emitter is in the light, search that emitter, then sort through that to find the light they're interested in?:thinking:



Sure. Let's say I'm looking to purchase a new light with the latest LED and I want to compare that LED's performance in different hosts or by manufacturer. This will let me know which host allows the best performance for that LED.


----------



## ti-force

flashfiend said:


> Sure. Let's say I'm looking to purchase a new light with the latest LED and I want to compare that LED's performance in different hosts or by manufacturer. This will let me know which host allows the best performance for that LED.



But wouldn't it be more organized (easier to find) if the results in each category were listed alphabetically in this order: brand (manufacturer), model then emitter? BigC always specifies the emitter type anyway. This will probably get interesting with the custom lights, but..... 

If it were organized by emitter, you end up with lots of lights that are organized like this: ssc, sst, xp-e, xp-g, xr-e........ and so on.


----------



## flashfiend

No because I'm comparing the emitters within the manufacturer/host category instead of comparing emitter performance between manufacturer/host.


----------



## ti-force

flashfiend said:


> No because I'm comparing the emitters within the manufacturer/host category instead of comparing emitter performance between manufacturer/host.



Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You're saying you don't care what host the emitter is in, you're only concerned with the emitter performance? If so, this makes no sense whatsoever to me; there are so many different variables to consider that this would tell you very little. I thought this whole thread was created to show the performance of different lights as a whole (an assembled light), and occasionally testing different variables to see what the difference is, how much of a difference that change makes, and whether that change had a positive or negative effect (on that same assembled light). This tells us how bright these lights are as a whole and how well they can sustain that brightness. No two lights are going to be exactly the same anyway, but this gives us a rough idea of what to expect.


----------



## flashfiend

I'm concerned how an emitter performs between different manufacturers and hosts. Where do I say that I don't care what host the emitter is in? By grouping them by emitter it's easier for me to compare manufacturer/host. For example, let's say I want to compare the performance of an sst-90 in a 4Sevens Maelstrom vs. an Olight SR90. If you arrange by manufacturer I have to go to the 4Sevens portion of the sheet and then to the Olight portion of the sheet to make the comparison. If arranged by emitter you can compare in the same section of the sheet.


----------



## Kindle

recDNA said:


> If you do it in Excel or even Word you could easily upload the file into GoogleDocs allowing quick search. Of course you could just type it into a post also but then it's tough to format.




Doing it as an .xls would also allow you to sort it by whichever criteria you desire.

Making both flashfiend AND ti-force happy.


----------



## flashfiend

Kindle said:


> Doing it as an .xls would also allow you to sort it by whichever criteria you desire.
> 
> Making both flashfiend AND ti-force happy.



:grouphug: Can't we all just get along?


----------



## ti-force

flashfiend said:


> I'm concerned how an emitter performs between different manufacturers and hosts. Where do I say that I don't care what host the emitter is in?



You said it right here:


flashfiend said:


> No because I'm comparing the emitters within the manufacturer/host category instead of comparing emitter performance between manufacturer/host.



That last part: "instead of comparing emitter performance between manufacturer/host." To me, that sounds like you're saying you're not comparing emitter performance between the different brands and or models of lights, but it doesn't really matter now because apparently that's not what you meant.




flashfiend said:


> By grouping them by emitter it's easier for me to compare manufacturer/host. For example, let's say I want to compare the performance of an sst-90 in a 4Sevens Maelstrom vs. an Olight SR90. If you arrange by manufacturer I have to go to the 4Sevens portion of the sheet and then to the Olight portion of the sheet to make the comparison. If arranged by emitter you can compare in the same section of the sheet.



Yeah, having to use your mouse to scroll from one categorized section to another is so labor intensive that I'm not sure I could handle it. Try going to the first page of this thread and organizing all of those readings some how. Now that's going to be labor intensive. It wouldn't be quite as bad if the categorization of these readings would have been implemented when this thread was first started, but now it's all piled up.

BigC, I appreciate what you're doing and I know first hand how much time is consumed doing what you do, so organize them however you like. I'll use the information either way, even if I have to scroll a little bit:thumbsup:.


----------



## ti-force

flashfiend said:


> :grouphug: Can't we all just get along?



:grouphug:


----------



## elho

flashfiend said:


> I'm concerned how an emitter performs between different manufacturers and hosts.


Fair enough, but others might be concerned about other things. Like finding the brightest light in the P7/MC-E/SST-50 emitter class not concerned at all which of these similar in performance LEDs it actually uses. Or finding out what the currently brightest P60 drop-ins after 3 minutes runtime are.
Or simply seeing which the 3 brightest lights bigchells tested so far are.
And so on. Any sorting or grouping will favour one or the other use case, but alphabetically is at least better than random and intuitive as to where on the list you can expect to find a light.

The only way to make everyone happy would be to make things flexible by making it one line per light (and the 1sec. 30sec, 1min, ... Lumen readings a coloumn of their own), adding a type coloumn (to designate P60 drop-ins or Mag builds like suggesed above). Then everyone could quickly apply his own sorting and filtering in the spreadsheet or on the exported data.


----------



## flashfiend

I reply to your sarcasm with another :grouphug:.

Hey, I appreciate what bigC has done as much as anyone, I guess I'm looking for something different than most users when I look at them. bigC can arrange in whatever way he sees best.


----------



## ti-force

flashfiend said:


> I reply to your sarcasm with another :grouphug:.
> 
> Hey, I appreciate what bigC has done as much as anyone, I guess I'm looking for something different than most users when I look at them. bigC can arrange in whatever way he sees best.



I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. I apologize if I came across that way.


----------



## flashfiend

No apologies necessary. It's all peace in the Middle East.


----------



## bigchelis

Im not ready to show the graph for my complete runtimes, but for now here is a teaser:

The M61 = 300 OTF
The Surefire LX2 = 249.2 OTF
The Surefire X300 = 210 OTF 



bigC


----------



## 021411

bigchelis said:


> Im not ready to show the graph for my complete runtimes, but for now here is a teaser:
> 
> The M61 = 300 OTF
> The Surefire LX2 = 249.2 OTF
> The Surefire X300 = 210 OTF
> 
> 
> 
> bigC


:twothumbs


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> Im not ready to show the graph for my complete runtimes, but for now here is a teaser:
> 
> The M61 = 300 OTF
> *The Surefire LX2 = 249.2 OTF*
> The Surefire X300 = 210 OTF
> 
> bigC



Hmmm I wonder how a creemator would compare in the same IS..


----------



## 021411

Hurry and get my other lights done!! :nana: The numbers so far kick butt.


----------



## bigchelis

sfca said:


> Hmmm I wonder how a creemator would compare in the same IS..


 

I am told I should have a Surefire L1 Milky R2 this Saturday soooo you will know soon.:devil:



Oh, but this cremator is copper heatsinked and driven at 1.5A~2A


----------



## bigchelis

Malkoff M61 with UCL lens added in a 6P hosts.


A really great drop-in with low current yet very bright.:thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

Here is the rest of them for today:

NOTE: The Thrunite SST-50 is a real bummer. It does get warm to the touch and inspite of 17 watts of power it only does 600 lumens. For the record it should be doing at least 800 OTF at those power levels.


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> Malkoff M61 with UCL lens added in a 6P hosts.
> 
> 
> A really great drop-in with low current yet very bright.:thumbsup:


Hmm, but how would it do with an AW 18650 2600mAh cell?


----------



## nodoubt

bigchelis said:


> Here is the rest of them for today:
> 
> NOTE: The Thrunite SST-50 is a real bummer. It does get warm to the touch and inspite of 17 watts of power it only does 600 lumens. For the record it should be doing at least 800 OTF at those power levels.


yeah big bummer on the cat v2.......
i was hoping it would be slightly underrated, not wayyy overrated....:shakehead
that stinks...maybe somebody else has another one to donate, and MAYBE the one you tested was an oddball.....


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

nodoubt said:


> yeah big bummer on the cat v2.......
> i was hoping it would be slightly underrated, not wayyy overrated....:shakehead
> that stinks...maybe somebody else has another one to donate, and MAYBE the one you tested was an oddball.....


 
So the one he tested AND the one light-reviews.com tested were both odd balls? I think that would be a serious sign of poor quality control.

http://www.light-reviews.com/thrunite_catapult_v2/


----------



## jirik_cz

Seems like SST-50 lights are more overrated than other lights


----------



## don.gwapo

Big C, what's the otf of the nailbender sst-90 drop-in in regular 18650 not in imr? Thanks.


----------



## 021411

big C, could u please test the Nailbender with the included batteries? I run them on primaries...


----------



## bigchelis

The Nailbender SST-90 Regulated with 2 CR123 primaries and AW 2600mAh 18650 is next


----------



## bullettproof

don.gwapo said:


> Big C, what's the otf of the nailbender sst-90 drop-in in regular 18650 not in imr? Thanks.



It shouldn't make a difference its regulated and AW 2600 is good to 5.2A.


----------



## bullettproof

Im picking up an LX2 tomm. Great numbers the XRE is putting out and with the TIR you cant go wrong.


----------



## bullettproof

jirik_cz said:


> Seems like SST-50 lights are more overrated than other lights




You have to drive the SST50 correctly and have ample heat sinking for it to perform correctly.

My DD SST90 D36 pulled 4A on a fresh 26650. And my Lambda pulls 5.05A on a SST50 and I can assure you my Lambda Mag seems much brighter then any light I have had. Although Big C Lambda 50 only did 877 OTF I talked to the builder and he said that his 50 was a 5700K version and that the 6500K versions were definitely brighter.Not to mention he was only getting 2.6A at the tail.I have noticed that there seems to be lots of variables in VF with the SST50 and 90 Led.They seem to be hit and miss we all prefer a lower VF but it seems like luck to get those. Luckily my Lambda has a great Led:thumbsup:


----------



## bullettproof

Big C test the LX2 on some AW RCR123 please.


----------



## bigchelis

bullettproof said:


> Big C test the LX2 on some AW RCR123 please.


 

Is this possible?

I only have IMR 16340's, but I do not know if the LX2 is designed for 8.4v input.


----------



## bullettproof

bigchelis said:


> Is this possible?
> 
> I only have IMR 16340's, but I do not know if the LX2 is designed for 8.4v input.



I have the E2DL which is the same light and have run nothing but RCR123 and IMR in it. Also most people are using RCR123 in the LX2. There is numerous posts with people using them.

Ive have used at least 30 charges on my AW RCR123 in my E2DL and 2 on my IMR's

LX2 RCR123 Thread below

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBwQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.candlepowerforums.com%2Fvb%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D241138&ei=SHMJTLzgKMX7lwfnobS1Dg&usg=AFQjCNEHX6_Xd1Mcl-nJZQnyZVgZpS85xQ


----------



## 021411

You can try it.. Just keep your eye on it just in case it goes  for some reason. Otherwise you'll have to dip in your cookie jar for another one.


----------



## bigchelis

021411 said:


> You can try it.. Just keep your eye on it just in case it goes  for some reason. Otherwise you'll have to dip in your cookie jar for another one.


 

I will try it, but if the lumen output spikes down I will cancell the test ASAP:twothumbs


The SST-90 P60 2.8A drop-in you sent me pulls just 2.7A which is less then the IMR 18650, but you are rewarded with more lumens.

I did test your drop-in with 2 CR123 primaries you sent and it pulls alot of current for 2 cells and gets warmer too, thus I only ran for 2 minutes.


----------



## bullettproof

I wouldnt sweat it at all when I get my LX2 tomm I assure you I will throw some RCR's in it as soon as I get it


----------



## bullettproof

Its amazing what voltage does and how lower current can even increase lumens. You have to find the sweet spot !!!


----------



## bigchelis

bullettproof said:


> Its amazing what voltage does and how lower current can even increase lumens. You have to find the sweet spot !!!


 

That is true. Sometimes 2.5A~2.7A is perfect, but go a bit more like 2.8A and poof: you missed the sweet spot.


----------



## bullettproof

bigchelis said:


> That is true. Sometimes 2.5A~2.7A is perfect, but go a bit more like 2.8A and poof: you missed the sweet spot.



Its kind of like a Woman:devil: to much and they dont like it to little and they dont like it


----------



## bigchelis

It looks like Surefire finally understood that there are folks like us that will use rechargeable cells because this new LX2 is fully regulated with both primaries and rechargeables.

I was shocked to discover that I got nearly 100% identical output with both Surefire CR123 Primaries and IMR 16340's.

My guess is Surefire got a hold of some very low vF Cree XR-E R2's and it appears they are driven at 1A or so.


----------



## ThruNite

bigchelis said:


> Here is the rest of them for today:
> 
> NOTE: The Thrunite SST-50 is a real bummer. It does get warm to the touch and inspite of 17 watts of power it only does 600 lumens. For the record it should be doing at least 800 OTF at those power levels.


 
we test the light.and get the results is : 1Acurrent at tail cap operated by 12v. If you have a power switch, You can find the results, It should have not so much high power of 17W. as to lumens. I can not say more. since we have not got sphere. so we just mark the LED lumens is 1000lumens from the LED spec. if we drive the LED current is 3.5+/-0.1A

THanks !


----------



## 021411

bigchelis said:


> It looks like Surefire finally understood that there are folks like us that will use rechargeable cells because this new LX2 is fully regulated with both primaries and rechargeables.
> 
> I was shocked to discover that I got nearly 100% identical output with both Surefire CR123 Primaries and IMR 16340's.
> 
> My guess is Surefire got a hold of some very low vF Cree XR-E R2's and it appears they are driven at 1A or so.


----------



## Noctis

ThruNite said:


> we test the light.and get the results is : 1Acurrent at tail cap operated by 12v. If you have a power switch, You can find the results, It should have not so much high power of 17W. as to lumens. I can not say more. since we have not got sphere. so we just mark the LED lumens is 1000lumens from the LED spec. if we drive the LED current is 3.5+/-0.1A
> 
> THanks !


Interesting. However, the current tested isn't exactly the current running through the emitter. BigC tested the same current with different tailcaps on my light, but got drastically different results.

As for the one LightReviews tested, I believe it was mentioned that the dome was sitting slightly off of the emitter.

Perhaps the emitter was simply poor quality.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Interesting. However, the current tested isn't exactly the current running through the emitter. BigC tested the same current with different tailcaps on my light, but got drastically different results.
> 
> As for the one LightReviews tested, I believe it was mentioned that the dome was sitting slightly off of the emitter.
> 
> Perhaps the emitter was simply poor quality.


 

I will say that the Catapult does have a super tight small tiny hotspot and even if its only 550~600 lumens it still has its purpose. I wish they would allow for IMR 26500 use (DX C cells).

bigC


----------



## nodoubt

bigchelis said:


> I will say that the Catapult does have a super tight small tiny hotspot and even if its only 550~600 lumens it still has its purpose. I wish they would allow for IMR 26500 use (DX C cells).
> 
> bigC


does it have a somewhat usable spill though with the hs being so tight ??


----------



## JB

nodoubt said:


> does it have a somewhat usable spill though with the hs being so tight ??



Yes the spill is quite usable IMO.


----------



## bullettproof

Surefire Kicks *** !!!!

I mean they really do there homework when it comes to R&D

Companies need to start rating lights like SF. For instance the M3LT coming out is rated at only 400 Lumens. But I can assure you it will at least be 400 Lumens if not 550 or who knows maybe even more.They really work there lights over and Im positive that the heat sink on this new light is gonna be really good.


----------



## jhc37013

Nice numbers on the LX2 I thought mine also was around 250, my E2DL looks identical in output so I'm guessing they would probably be the same.


----------



## recDNA

jirik_cz said:


> Seems like SST-50 lights are more overrated than other lights


 

I'll tell you what...my gunmetal 6P with Nailbender SST-50 is NOT overrated. It rocks. It blows away my hosts containing MC-E (except the giant sized ones) and I can leave it in the car because it takes primaries (I don't trust Li Ions in a car in summer heat). I do need to get some Arctic Silver for it though. I don't want to toast that gorgeous pill. 

I just wish I could find an inexpensive 26650 host to try it in. (Like L2p priced).


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I will say that the Catapult does have a super tight small tiny hotspot and even if its only 550~600 lumens it still has its purpose. I wish they would allow for IMR 26500 use (DX C cells).
> 
> bigC


 

Hey BigC - you give specs on a Nailbender 1D Maglite with 26650 and P7 led. Does somebody sell a tricked out Maglite like that or are there instructions someplace how to modify the head of a Maglite to take a Nailbender pill? I'd love to try my Nailbender SST-50 with a 26650.


----------



## bullettproof

After having both 26650 and 26500 lights for some reason the AW 26500 always pulls more power.I dont think the orange 26650 batteries are that great.I think AW needs to make a 26650 for sure.


----------



## Noctis

recDNA said:


> Hey BigC - you give specs on a Nailbender 1D Maglite with 26650 and P7 led. Does somebody sell a tricked out Maglite like that or are there instructions someplace how to modify the head of a Maglite to take a Nailbender pill? I'd love to try my Nailbender SST-50 with a 26650.



I believe Nailbender makes those himself. You'd have to talk to him about it.

I'm not sure how willing he is to make something really CUSTOM custom due to his limited amount of time.

I would just give member ma_sha1 a PM and see if he can hook you up. He did a few maglite mods with the SST emitters.


bullettproof said:


> After having both 26650 and 26500 lights for some reason the AW 26500 always pulls more power.I dont think the orange 26650 batteries are that great.I think AW needs to make a 26650 for sure.


Wouldn't mind that either, but I don't think AW is interested since that's been "in progress" for about a year with no updates from what I've been able to find on the subject.

The 26650 doesn't pull more power, but that could be fixed with a low resistance mod. The capacity however is nothing to scoff at. At 4000mAh, it far outstrips the 26500 cell's 2300mAh capacity by far.

I'll have to wait until I have my FM 1x26650 host to be sure, but I believe the IMR chemistry should at least let it draw more current than my AW 18650 2600mAh cell, and that ought to be enough really.

Unless you're using a maglite with a switch that can handle the high current, a current of more than 5A should be unnecessary.

A P60/D36 host wouldn't have adequate heatsinking to handle more than 4A of current. At least nobody is producing heatsinks for those hosts.


----------



## bigchelis

I got this Milky light from Scott Saturday afternoon to show at the BBQ Meet in San Jose.

It is an L1 with stock Tir Optic. It is focusable and has an XR-E R2. In the past MrGman measured one with a 1.3A accorn driver and at turn-on it was 243 OTF lumens (no warm or extended runtimes were recorded).

Scott put a huge copper slug as a heatsink in this L1 build because the R2 is direct driven off AW 17670 cell. Yup, this L1 fits a 17670 cell and pulls 2A at turn-on


----------



## bigchelis

I got to see another Thrunite Catapult V2, which I was told was the new and improved 2 mode version. 

Note: The Leggion II SST-50 got that 645 OTF reading, but was down to 550ish OTF a split second later. It did maintain its output better after that huge drop.


----------



## bigchelis

Here are the smaller lights tested yesterday


----------



## flashfiend

Wow, that milky xr-e is amazing. I wonder what the lux numbers are and what magic he can do with the sst-series lights.


----------



## recDNA

bullettproof said:


> You have to drive the SST50 correctly and have ample heat sinking for it to perform correctly.
> 
> My DD SST90 D36 pulled 4A on a fresh 26650. And my Lambda pulls 5.05A on a SST50 and I can assure you my Lambda Mag seems much brighter then any light I have had. Although Big C Lambda 50 only did 877 OTF I talked to the builder and he said that his 50 was a 5700K version and that the 6500K versions were definitely brighter.Not to mention he was only getting 2.6A at the tail.I have noticed that there seems to be lots of variables in VF with the SST50 and 90 Led.They seem to be hit and miss we all prefer a lower VF but it seems like luck to get those. Luckily my Lambda has a great Led:thumbsup:


 
You're lucky to even HAVE a Lambda. Whenever I go to their site they're out of stock. If you could only have one would you take the Lambda SST-90 or the Lambda SST-50? I can't even afford ONE but I do intend to buy ONE so the question is WHICH???? (If they're ever in stock again.)


----------



## recDNA

Did you measure the Lux of Milky's L1?


----------



## recDNA

With all the guys doing custom work here you'd think someone could make some 1 X 26650 sized aluminum tubes with threads at each end for a tailcap and a head. Bare aluminum would suffice. It doesn't seem like it would cost much to do that?


----------



## bigchelis

Here are the 1 meter calculated lux readings taken at 5 meters and calculated back.

Note: I topped off the cells or used the cell package that I know delivers the most lumens to then take my lux readings.



Surefire LX2 = 9,400 lux
Malkoff M61 = 5,000 lux
SST-90 Nailbender P60 = 6,325 lux
Thrunite V2 SST-50 = 40, 350
Surefire X300 = 8,400 lux
*Milky L1 Extreme = 14, 825*


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> Here are the 1 meter calculated lux readings taken at 5 meters and calculated back.
> 
> Note: I topped off the cells or used the cell package that I know delivers the most lumens to then take my lux readings.
> 
> 
> 
> Surefire LX2 = 9,400 lux
> Malkoff M61 = 5,000 lux
> SST-90 Nailbender P60 = 6,325 lux
> Thrunite V2 SST-50 = 40, 350
> Surefire X300 = 8,400 lux
> *Milky L1 Extreme = 14, 825*



Mind I ask size of hotspot comparison between LX2 and the Milky L1?


----------



## milkyspit

sfca said:


> Mind I ask size of hotspot comparison between LX2 and the Milky L1?



It should be the same... same TIR optic used in each. The ML1x is focusable though, so it could have been focused a little differently depending on BigChelis' personal preference.


----------



## bullettproof

recDNA said:


> You're lucky to even HAVE a Lambda. Whenever I go to their site they're out of stock. If you could only have one would you take the Lambda SST-90 or the Lambda SST-50? I can't even afford ONE but I do intend to buy ONE so the question is WHICH???? (If they're ever in stock again.)



The Lambda Kicks *** for sure mine is ungodly bright and Throws Awesome the new deep reflector that Mag lite is making is super deep.

Its kind of a toss up between the 50 and 90 the 50 is only a 2D and you can run it on level (38) which is HI for 1 hour straight it gets warm but not hot .The heat sinking is some of the best Ive seen.The 90 model is brighter but you only get 23 minutes on level (38) HI and its a bigger 3D Mag. So its a toss up long run time and 1k OTF lumens in a shorter mag in the 6500k version. Or bigger Mag shorter runtime and Monster Lumens.

In all honesty I had the option to pick the 90 model but went ahead and got the 50 version based on its practicality. I have played with a few other SST50 Mags and I must say that the Lambda seemed brighter and more heat efficient.

These Lambdas are gonna be very hard to come across and at his price with the features you get it tops everyone elses Mags on the market for price and excellent quality.


----------



## bigchelis

milkyspit said:


> It should be the same... same TIR optic used in each. The ML1x is focusable though, so it could have been focused a little differently depending on BigChelis' personal preference.


 

Guilty:

I started with the bezel on the L1 all the way down and twisted out till the lux were at the highest. I guess thats the benefit of having a focusable L1.



I did just test the Malkoff Tripple XP-G R5 and got 12,175 lux:twothumbs


----------



## flashfiend

bigchelis said:


> ...
> I did just test the Malkoff Tripple XP-G R5 and got 12,175 lux:twothumbs



I didn't think the XP-G's had that kind of throw in them. What is the host for that Malkoff?


----------



## bigchelis

flashfiend said:


> I didn't think the XP-G's had that kind of throw in them. What is the host for that Malkoff?


 

Its the Malkoff WildCat. It is like having 3 Malkoff M61's pointing in the same direction.

I used the MD3 hosts with 2 AW 17500 cell.


----------



## FroggyTaco

flashfiend said:


> I didn't think the XP-G's had that kind of throw in them. What is the host for that Malkoff?



It's not really a "host" but a integral head that can be used on malkoffs own bodies. 

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/malkoff-wildcat-head-p-70.html?zenid=8a2vabqqnimbmha29hrvbpuu36


----------



## flashfiend

FroggyTaco said:


> It's not really a "host" but a integral head that can be used on malkoffs own bodies.
> 
> http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/malkoff-wildcat-head-p-70.html?zenid=8a2vabqqnimbmha29hrvbpuu36



Proprietary? Bummer.


----------



## FroggyTaco

flashfiend said:


> Proprietary? Bummer.



Why bummer? It's how a manufacturer makes sure their product is properly used. It's a really well built & engineered illumination device.


----------



## bigchelis

The MD3 and MD4 bodies tailcaps are compatible with all Surefire P and G series.

So, at least you could use your McClickies with the Malkoff bodies.:twothumbs


----------



## recDNA

bullettproof said:


> The Lambda Kicks *** for sure mine is ungodly bright and Throws Awesome the new deep reflector that Mag lite is making is super deep.
> 
> Its kind of a toss up between the 50 and 90 the 50 is only a 2D and you can run it on level (38) which is HI for 1 hour straight it gets warm but not hot .The heat sinking is some of the best Ive seen.The 90 model is brighter but you only get 23 minutes on level (38) HI and its a bigger 3D Mag. So its a toss up long run time and 1k OTF lumens in a shorter mag in the 6500k version. Or bigger Mag shorter runtime and Monster Lumens.
> 
> In all honesty I had the option to pick the 90 model but went ahead and got the 50 version based on its practicality. I have played with a few other SST50 Mags and I must say that the Lambda seemed brighter and more heat efficient.
> 
> These Lambdas are gonna be very hard to come across and at his price with the features you get it tops everyone elses Mags on the market for price and excellent quality.


 

It's getting so every single flashlight I want to buy is always sold out.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> Its the Malkoff WildCat. It is like having 3 Malkoff M61's pointing in the same direction.
> 
> I used the MD3 hosts with 2 AW 17500 cell.


 

So the Wildcat = more lux for throw

Moddoo triple = more lumes for flood?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> It's getting so every single flashlight I want to buy is always sold out.


 

Don't worry he is making more, but with a twist. Just go to his website and send him an email. Tell him you want the updated version from what I have. 

After he saw my OTF numbers Lambda started working on improving the heatsinking. He will be making the heatsinks bigger and better and did I mention copper You do have to request for the copper in you email, but I know at his prices it will be a bargain for sure. 

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

Just in case some of you missed the pictures of the Milky L1 Extreme with copper.....


----------



## recDNA

How about a focused vs flood beamshot?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> How about a focused vs flood beamshot?


 

They would be identical to any LX2, but more intense hot spot.


I will try to do some tonight at 3 meters and 5 meters:thumbsup:


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> Here is a Nailbender SST-90 P60 drop-in with a UCL lens and 6P hosts (bored for 18650 cells). The owner sent it with copper tape and AS5 on the threads so, I never tested it without those things.


Just out of curiosity, is that a 3 minute continuous runtime?

I only ask because I was sure the light would be too hot to hold beyond 45 seconds with the IMR cell.

I believe I left a note saying that running the light beyond that time could risk damaging the emitter, and my light has been forming this weird yellow donut in the middle of the hotspot 15 seconds after turn on. It goes away when I turn it off, but it always comes back.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Just out of curiosity, is that a 3 minute continuous runtime?
> 
> I only ask because I was sure the light would be too hot to hold beyond 45 seconds with the IMR cell.
> 
> I believe I left a note saying that running the light beyond that time could risk damaging the emitter, and my light has been forming this weird yellow donut in the middle of the hotspot 15 seconds after turn on. It goes away when I turn it off, but it always comes back.


 
Yes, I ran it continous for 3 minutes

It didn't get hot..I have tested lights that get hot and that one runs warm. What I do is hold it by the bezel with my hand wrapping it 360 degrees to help dissipate heat. If I would have turned it on and just held it by the body I am sure it would have got warmer~hot, but I held it by the bezel to allow my body to disssipate heat.

Holding it by the bezel when I test other lights have become too hot too hold, but not yours at all. One of the hottest P60 drop-ins I ever tested was the Moddoo Tripple XP-E and that one even by the bezel I coudn't hold or barely at 2 minutes. Which was why I was shocked when the Tripple XP-G R5 ran a bit warm if that. Don't worry if I had noticed it got too warm I would have stopped the test.

bigC


----------



## 357mag1

My Nailbender SST-90 was in a Fivemega 26500 body with his tailcap and a McClicky switch. I closed it in a 3M handgun case without locking out the tailcap. The McClicky switch is so sensitive closing the case apparently turned it on. I decided to add another light to the case about 20 minutes later. As soon as I opened the case I could smell something hot (like slightly charred electronics). The light had gone off as I opened the case so it wasn't immediately apparent what had happened. I had to run and grab gloves to handle the light and get the battery out of it.
I thought I might have destroyed the drop-in and the IMR 26500 battery. They both still seem to work fine after cooling off. 

Not something I would recommend but it says a lot for the battery's toughness and the Nailbender module.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> They would be identical to any LX2, but more intense hot spot.
> 
> 
> I will try to do some tonight at 3 meters and 5 meters:thumbsup:


 
Does an ordinary LX2 focus? I thought it had a fixed focus.


----------



## bullettproof

recDNA said:


> Does an ordinary LX2 focus? I thought it had a fixed focus.



Its fixed.


----------



## recDNA

bullettproof said:


> Its fixed.


 

That Milky L1 really does look cool....but then all his stuff does.


----------



## Noctis

357mag1 said:


> My Nailbender SST-90 was in a Fivemega 26500 body with his tailcap and a McClicky switch. I closed it in a 3M handgun case without locking out the tailcap. The McClicky switch is so sensitive closing the case apparently turned it on. I decided to add another light to the case about 20 minutes later. As soon as I opened the case I could smell something hot (like slightly charred electronics). The light had gone off as I opened the case so it wasn't immediately apparent what had happened. I had to run and grab gloves to handle the light and get the battery out of it.
> I thought I might have destroyed the drop-in and the IMR 26500 battery. They both still seem to work fine after cooling off.
> 
> Not something I would recommend but it says a lot for the battery's toughness and the Nailbender module.


Impressive, but Dave still reminds me that I'm pushing my module far beyond what he ever intended it to go through.

He says that the lens loosened up and that an air bubble seeps under it as the light heats up, then disappears as the emitter cools and the lens adheres again.

Sad, but it sounds like I'll need another module. Given that I was going into forbidden territory, I had expected it would happen at some point.

The beam certainly seems dimmer than it used to be, but it might still be usable if I can somehow pop the dome off without damaging the emitter, then I can have quite the pocket thrower. I'm not really counting on it though. It sounds like a tiny bit of adhesive came loose around the edge. I doubt I can pull it off without part of the emitter coming out with it.

I'll simply use my next module as is. Hopefully using it as intended will prevent any further mishaps while still providing me with enough current draw to make it worth using direct drive over regulated.


----------



## recDNA

What is it that you did other than accidentally leaving the light on too long?


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

Regarding the Catapult / SST-50 discussion, can I ask about a couple things that were mentioned in passing that I felt deserved a little more discussion?

First, there definitely appears to be something going on with the SST-50 emitters. A casual glance through the entire thread shows very few of them make it past the output of typical MCE/P7 emitters, when on paper they should far surpass them. Is there some explanation for this that can be attributable to the emitter class as a whole?

Second, someone mentioned that throwers don't score as well as flood lights. This theme has rang true over and over. My guess is that even when considering the light that actually gets into the sphere, the photons from a tightly focused thrower maybe just don't bounce around as well (and thereby getting to the sensor) as those from a floody light where the light is already entering at more of an angle.

I'm by no means the light expert, I just notice the trends and comment on them.


----------



## uncle wong

Thrunite have 3 type of drop-in 

1)18650 battery only drop in (2.7-4.2V) (3 mode)
2)4v-13v multilevel drop in ( 3 mode)
3)2.7-9v single stage drop in (1 mode)

Any chance to test Thrunite 18650 battery only drop in (2.7-4.2V) (3 mode) ??


----------



## bullettproof

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> Regarding the Catapult / SST-50 discussion, can I ask about a couple things that were mentioned in passing that I felt deserved a little more discussion?
> 
> First, there definitely appears to be something going on with the SST-50 emitters. A casual glance through the entire thread shows very few of them make it past the output of typical MCE/P7 emitters, when on paper they should far surpass them. Is there some explanation for this that can be attributable to the emitter class as a whole?
> 
> Second, someone mentioned that throwers don't score as well as flood lights. This theme has rang true over and over. My guess is that even when considering the light that actually gets into the sphere, the photons from a tightly focused thrower maybe just don't bounce around as well (and thereby getting to the sensor) as those from a floody light where the light is already entering at more of an angle.
> 
> I'm by no means the light expert, I just notice the trends and comment on them.



The SST 50 & 90 like to be driven hard and most Manufacturers are only pushing them at 80%.Although they are pushing them at 80% the lumen outputs aren't 80% there more like 50-60% The only way to make these SST led's really go is 5A on the 50 and 10A on the 90.They do not disappoint when driven at spec.Until Manufacturers start building proper heats sinks better drivers and cut resistance your not gonna see them perform to there potential unless you buy Custom.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

bullettproof said:


> The SST 50 & 90 like to be driven hard and most Manufacturers are only pushing them at 80%.Although they are pushing them at 80% the lumen outputs aren't 80% there more like 50-60% The only way to make these SST led's really go is 5A on the 50 and 10A on the 90.They do not disappoint when driven at spec.Until Manufacturers start building proper heats sinks better drivers and cut resistance your not gonna see them perform to there potential unless you buy Custom.


 
That implies that the Luminus data sheet is wrong since it has a rather linear slope to it.


----------



## jirik_cz

bullettproof said:


> The SST 50 & 90 like to be driven hard and most Manufacturers are only pushing them at 80%.Although they are pushing them at 80% the lumen outputs aren't 80% there more like 50-60%



Sorry, but that is not true. The efficiency of all LEDs decline with higher current. So when driven at 80% of max current you probably get around 85-90% of lumen output.


----------



## psychbeat

I think its just that you CAN drive them easily
to 5 and 10 amps where the MCE gets overwhelmed and
less efficient above 3ish.

thats my guess.. 

the SST beam and tints in general are really nice
but below 3 amps probably not any brighter than
an MCE


----------



## bullettproof

A SST50 at 3.5A is 80% give or take and only makes 550-600 lumens .You take the same Led and drive it at 5A spec which is only another 20% increase in current you will get a 75% increase in lumens output which will be right at 1000 otf. That is a huge difference in output for such a small amount of extra current.

The only problem with the input I'm giving is that there are factors always involved.I'm basing this off of the Catapult figures and a custom 5A mag heat sinking resistance batteries will all be factors. Now to truly test my theory one would need to take the same light and drive it at 3.5A then 5A and see what the true differences are.This would be the only way for exact figures.


BIG C care to chime in:thumbsup:


----------



## bullettproof

jirik_cz said:


> Sorry, but that is not true. The efficiency of all LEDs decline with higher current. So when driven at 80% of max current you probably get around 85-90% of lumen output.



See my above post.

I disagree if that were the case these SST50 lights would be putting out 800 OTF at 3.5A. I know of no SST50 light making those numbers at that low of current.I could be wrong but I would like to see which light.


----------



## jirik_cz

That is just against the nature of leds. Check the test of SST-90 by JTR1962. (or a test of any other LED)

Measured luminous flux at 8A was 1966 lumens and at 10A was 2294 lumens. That is ~86% luminous flux when driven with 80% current...

The key to relatively low OTF numbers of SST lights is heat and possible exaggeration of specifications by Luminus.


----------



## elho

357mag1 said:


> My Nailbender SST-90 [...]
> I thought I might have destroyed the drop-in and the IMR 26500 battery. They both still seem to work fine after cooling off.


Is it a direct-drive one?
The LEDs seem to be fairly robust, the cases where people damaged their nailbender drop-ins due to heat AFAIK all were due to killing the driver (or desoldering parts).


----------



## Noctis

bullettproof said:


> See my above post.
> 
> I disagree if that were the case these SST50 lights would be putting out 800 OTF at 3.5A. I know of no SST50 light making those numbers at that low of current.I could be wrong but I would like to see which light.


Wouldn't that number be closer to 700 OTF lumens? I generally like to assume that only 70-75% of the emitter lumens actually makes it OTF, though that depends on the host, reflector, and lens.

I think your expectations are unreasonably high. A Nailbender SST-50 regulated at 2.8A makes 550 OTF lumens. 3.5A is only 0.7A higher current draw, not too much higher. If you expect the OTF lumens to rise by 250 with only a 0.7A higher draw, then wouldn't the OTF number for a 5A draw be 1300 OTF lumens?

Realistically, I think the OTF numbers would be closer to 675 OTF lumens @ 3.5A


----------



## bullettproof

Noctis said:


> Wouldn't that number be closer to 700 OTF lumens? I generally like to assume that only 70-75% of the emitter lumens actually makes it OTF, though that depends on the host, reflector, and lens.
> 
> I think your expectations are unreasonably high. A Nailbender SST-50 regulated at 2.8A makes 550 OTF lumens. 3.5A is only 0.7A higher current draw, not too much higher. If you expect the OTF lumens to rise by 250 with only a 0.7A higher draw, then wouldn't the OTF number for a 5A draw be 1300 OTF lumens?
> 
> Realistically, I think the OTF numbers would be closer to 675 OTF lumens @ 3.5A



I dont think you read all the posts. Start back up and read down.


----------



## Noctis

bullettproof said:


> I dont think you read all the posts. Start back up and read down.


Ah.

But 550-600 OTF lumens at 3.5A still seems a bit off.


----------



## bigchelis

The only SST-50 builds I have tested that performed relatively great were custom builds. The factory ones can't keep up. Fortunately for us we know of a few custom builders here and elsewhere where we can get these SST-50 builds ala carte!


Ma_Sha 2C Mag SST-50 at 5A = 1008 OTF 


EX: a Nailbender 1C Mag SST-50 with D2flex 
4.55A = 986 OTF
3.77A = 725 OTF
1.8A = 483 OTF 


I will say that the custom Mag SST-50's tested get hot around the bezel even at 3.7A, but similar lights like the Leggion II and the Thrunite do not. I get happy when I see the heat transfer is succesfull. The only exception is the Moddoo Tripple XP-G, which didn't get hot and still performed:thinking:


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> The only SST-50 builds I have tested that performed relatively great were custom builds. The factory ones can't keep up. Fortunately for us we know of a few custom builders here and elsewhere where we can get these SST-50 builds ala carte!
> 
> 
> Ma_Sha 2C Mag SST-50 at 5A = 1008 OTF
> 
> 
> EX: a Nailbender 1C Mag SST-50 with D2flex
> 4.55A = 986 OTF
> 3.77A = 725 OTF
> 1.8A = 483 OTF
> 
> 
> I will say that the custom Mag SST-50's tested get hot around the bezel even at 3.7A, but similar lights like the Leggion II and the Thrunite do not. I get happy when I see the heat transfer is succesfull. The only exception is the Moddoo Tripple XP-G, which didn't get hot and still performed:thinking:


Only thing that might explain that is the copper. Admittedly most of it is aluminum, but the copper probably soaks up more heat than the heatsink itself.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Only thing that might explain that is the copper. Admittedly most of it is aluminum, but the copper probably soaks up more heat than the heatsink itself.


 


True!!!!!

I wish the Thrunite and others used copper or at least massive heatsinks. I rather have a bigger heatsink then fins and a pretty light


----------



## bigchelis

I wanted to test my Milky L1 Extreme with AA cells to see if it performed and if so at what current.


It works and works really good with those new Ni-Zn AA and will give me a couple days of runtime with my AA Tenergy 2600mAh cells!


----------



## kengps

BigC....sorry if I missed it, but did you get a Lux number for the Moddoo triple? I want to know how well it throws.


----------



## HarryN

Hi, thanks to all who have made this listing possible.

I had a chance to see the smaller sphere in action last weekend at the get together, and it was pretty interesting. One of the challenges of using a sphere like this is getting the light scattered and re-collected to the sensor, regardless of the output and beam shape.

This next paragraph might sound like a criticism, its not. Having access to this sphere and data are extremely helpful - a flashlight guy's dream.  I just want to point out some possible reasons why some lights might not measure exactly what people expect.

Commercial spheres are solid with a special inner surface to scatter the light, with relatively no loss outside of the sphere. The sphere being used here, while quite good, isn't perfect. 

The walls are sort of translucent, not entirely reflective / diffractive.
- In a light that puts out a highly concentrated beam (high lux), it will naturally measure lower than the same lumen output from a floodier beam. This is pretty much unavoidable, and you can see it watching the beam profile on the far wall of the sphere.
- More light is going to be lost from a high output light than a low output light, although this can be callibrated out.

The results are still very useful, and it is really cool to watch the glowing ball on the table. Thanks for the access.


----------



## FroggyTaco

HarryN said:


> Hi, thanks to all who have made this listing possible.
> 
> I had a chance to see the smaller sphere in action last weekend at the get together, and it was pretty interesting. One of the challenges of using a sphere like this is getting the light scattered and re-collected to the sensor, regardless of the output and beam shape.
> 
> This next paragraph might sound like a criticism, its not. Having access to this sphere and data are extremely helpful - a flashlight guy's dream.  I just want to point out some possible reasons why some lights might not measure exactly what people expect.
> 
> Commercial spheres are solid with a special inner surface to scatter the light, with relatively no loss outside of the sphere. The sphere being used here, while quite good, isn't perfect.
> 
> The walls are sort of translucent, not entirely reflective / diffractive.
> - In a light that puts out a highly concentrated beam (high lux), it will naturally measure lower than the same lumen output from a floodier beam. This is pretty much unavoidable, and you can see it watching the beam profile on the far wall of the sphere.
> - More light is going to be lost from a high output light than a low output light, although this can be callibrated out.
> 
> The results are still very useful, and it is really cool to watch the glowing ball on the table. Thanks for the access.



All excellent & quite observant points. Since I was helping BigC last Sat. I agree with your assessment. On the plus side, his larger sphere should help mitigate some of the issues, but the translucent issue will still be there. At least all these lights have been measured in the same sphere so the error is "consistent".

Travis


----------



## jirik_cz

HarryN said:


> The walls are sort of translucent, not entirely reflective / diffractive.
> - In a light that puts out a highly concentrated beam (high lux), it will naturally measure lower than the same lumen output from a floodier beam. This is pretty much unavoidable, and you can see it watching the beam profile on the far wall of the sphere.
> - More light is going to be lost from a high output light than a low output light, although this can be callibrated out.



I don't think that this is an issue. The reflectivity of the styrofoam sphere is lower, but it is the same on the whole surface. So the beamshape should not affect the reading. And this could be easily compensated by a calibration.

But there might be another problem - the reflector. A flashlight with a big reflector will affect the reading, because the reflector has higher reflectivity than styrofoam.


----------



## bigchelis

I thought about this too because I really wanted to give those awesome throwers the benefit of a doubt. Then I remembered my P60 Turbo head shoot out. Where the lux from my P60 pills went from 8k~30k lux. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/263517

What was the outcome, well the lumens went up or stayed the same


I know the only way to really test this theory is to get another super thrower light with SST-50 and about 1000 OTF lumens. Then be able to put a turbo head on it and a normal flood bezel to test the before and after. This is what I did already and I actually got the opposite results, but the lights tested were in the 200~500 OTF lumens range. One was the Nailbender SST-50 P60 drop-in, so at least I used the SST-50.


More to come:thumbsup:


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I thought about this too because I really wanted to give those awesome throwers the benefit of a doubt. Then I remembered my P60 Turbo head shoot out. Where the lux from my P60 pills went from 8k~30k lux.
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/263517
> 
> What was the outcome, well the lumens went up or stayed the same
> 
> 
> I know the only way to really test this theory is to get another super thrower light with SST-50 and about 1000 OTF lumens. Then be able to put a turbo head on it and a normal flood bezel to test the before and after. This is what I did already and I actually got the opposite results, but the lights tested were in the 200~500 OTF lumens range. One was the Nailbender SST-50 P60 drop-in, so at least I used the SST-50.
> 
> 
> More to come:thumbsup:


 
I hope somebody sends you a Flydragon. That should throw and I'm dying to see the lux numbers. I could care less about the lumens in an aspheric model.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> I hope somebody sends you a Flydragon. That should throw and I'm dying to see the lux numbers. I could care less about the lumens in an aspheric model.


 


I am actully meeting a member in person soon. He will bring that monster to my home for some interesting data. He said he has both the aspheric and normal reflector, which will allow us to see how much that aspheric robs.

The LensLight Mini did 80ish OTF lumens when focused and 160ish OTF when wide. So, that R2 driven at 1.2A normally would make 220~240 OTF had it had a reflector.

Time will tell


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I am actully meeting a member in person soon. He will bring that monster to my home for some interesting data. He said he has both the aspheric and normal reflector, which will allow us to see how much that aspheric robs.
> 
> The LensLight Mini did 80ish OTF lumens when focused and 160ish OTF when wide. So, that R2 driven at 1.2A normally would make 220~240 OTF had it had a reflector.
> 
> Time will tell


 
If it produces > 100,000 lux I could care less how many lumens get through! The nice thing is you have the option of using the normal reflector when flood is needed.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> If it produces > 100,000 lux I could care less how many lumens get through! The nice thing is you have the option of using the normal reflector when flood is needed.


 

I didn't know that its suppose to do that much lux


----------



## MrGman

jirik_cz said:


> I don't think that this is an issue. The reflectivity of the styrofoam sphere is lower, but it is the same on the whole surface. So the beamshape should not affect the reading. And this could be easily compensated by a calibration.
> 
> But there might be another problem - the reflector. A flashlight with a big reflector will affect the reading, because the reflector has higher reflectivity than styrofoam.


 

Reflectors in the lamp are not really an issue at all. Any light that comes back to the opening port of the sphere and into the light's reflector point back into the LED and bounce around the walls of the reflector in such a way that minimizes them coming back out. Those that do come back with a significant loss. Its a very low percentage. You should look at the LED and reflector as one total light source into the sphere and not affecting the readings all that much as change in the overall reflectivity of the sphere. They are a second order effect at best.

Besides the whole point of the larger sphere was to minimize effects at the opening port. The larger the sphere in regards to the opening port the less percentage effect it has. The reflectivity of the glass probably has more effect than anything else but still even that is limited. The total integration area of the inside surface of the sphere versus the very small area squared of the port makes it less important. 


the surface area of the 24 inch sphere if its actually around 23 inch diameter on the inside is no less than 1661 inches. The square area of the port opening is somewhere between 9 and 15 square inches (I don't remember exact diameter of the hole. That ratio is no worse than 0.009 to 1 or basically less than 1 %. Its 0.9% at best and could be less. So how can the reflector that may not fill that 1% area, with a potentially higher reflectivity really have that much of an effect versus the 99 plus % of the entirety of the sphere wall surface area? This is why we want the big sphere for these lights.


----------



## noleincol

Has anyone determined an instrumented drop in lumens and increase in lux from SST-50/90 dome removal ? If so, what would the percentages be?


----------



## bigchelis

noleincol said:


> Has anyone determined an instrumented drop in lumens and increase in lux from SST-50/90 dome removal ? If so, what would the percentages be?


 

I did. Kevin from Lambdalights.com sent me a 2D Mag SST-50 powered by 3 NiMH Tenergy C cells I get 4.23A at the tail with both dome and domeless SST-50.


----------



## bigchelis

I got my tests done and have to say I prefer the domeless SST-50.

The Reflector I used was a KD V3 Smooth. I bet the lux would have been more if I had a Deep Rebel Reflector that comes with the LED Mags.

I don't have pictures, but if you have seen a Dereelight Aspherical R2 DBS the throw and beam narrow is almost identical. The SST-50 Mag however has a perfect beam and with 600 plus lumens it is super impressive.



With the dome:

Lumens are greater
no heat on bezel/tube
less lux
I can test topped off cells and no loss in lumens
tint does turn kinda blue, but the lumens stay high so I kept the test going. The tint turns white after 30sec.
With NO dome:

Lumens are less
Bezel/tube get hot or warm
3X more lux
Tint turns blue with topped off cells and I got 300 or so lumens.
At 4V total the lumens stayed consistant and no blue.
I think I need a bigger heatsink now to re-test.


----------



## noleincol

Bigchelis, thank you for the quick response. I have ordered a VP 2K from Lambda and was debating the dome issue. Your testing reports a 25% reduction in lumens, but a 150% increase in lux, would validate removing the dome is worth the trade off.


----------



## bigchelis

noleincol said:


> Bigchelis, thank you for the quick response. I have ordered a VP 2K from Lambda and was debating the dome issue. Your testing reports a 25% reduction in lumens, but a 150% increase in lux, would validate removing the dome is worth the trade off.


 

I am glad I removed it, but it looks like it needs more heatsinking now. I am working on putting a bigger heatsink in it and see if that 25% drop is lowered to like 15%.


I will warn you that once you remove the dome it makes it inpractical for indoor use. I think it makes it a perfect outdoor type light now. I get 600 plus OTF, plus a super intense hotspot with laser like beam which offers alot of throw.

bigC


----------



## noleincol

For indoor use I use an Malkoff M60. The increased throw outdoors with dome removed VP 2K is welcomed but at the expense of how much spill?


----------



## recDNA

I hope somebody sends you one of those Torchlite 26650 flashlights with the SST-50 to test!


----------



## rickypanecatyl

BigC - did you have the newer copper heat sink in the Varapower 1k with the removed dome?

Did you test the lux on the 2k w & w/out the dome?


----------



## bigchelis

rickypanecatyl said:


> BigC - did you have the newer copper heat sink in the Varapower 1k with the removed dome?
> 
> Did you test the lux on the 2k w & w/out the dome?


 

No and No.

The SST-50 2D Mag Lambda sent me had the standard heatsink and normal reflector ( not deep rebel one).

The SST-90 VARA2000 I sold to pay for the new copper version: which I think will be ready soon.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

Thanks for the fast response!

Waiting for your test to order a 4500K, VP2K w/ copper heat sink and rebel reflector! Hoping for near Catapult throw with dome and DBS R2 aspheric throw with it off:huh:


----------



## Noctis

Hi Jose,

I was wondering if you could do a simple little "test" for me.

I wanted to see the lumens output of a drop-in module(preferably nailbender's) with ONLY AS5 on the pill. And then in a separate test, see the output of the same module wrapped with ONLY copper tape until it's a very snug fit(i.e. you have to kind of ram the drop-in inside the head).

I'm starting to think that the AS5 I'm using might actually be getting in the way of thermal transfer.


----------



## Glenn7

bigchelis said:


> I will warn you that once you remove the dome it makes it inpractical for indoor use.
> bigC



I have a VP 2000 with the dome off - dont forget that you can defocus the head, yes not perfect for the white wall hunters in profile but it makes it not too bad IMO for flood (giving you the best of both worlds) I have a FM 2.5" head on mine which gives it a brilliant heatsink and I have never seen an led light throw like this one ever - I will have to get some pix of the throw up somewhere as one of the sheds where I work is 375 meters (1230 feet) long and its nothing for this puppy also I can see it light up a bridge across the river from my work at about 800 meters  

BTW its a 4x D using new Tenergy cells :wave: whats an SR90 :thinking: :nana:


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> True!!!!!
> 
> I wish the Thrunite and others used copper or at least massive heatsinks. I rather have a bigger heatsink then fins and a pretty light


 
Ya but all the copper can do is transfer the heat more effectively TO the aluminum. Then it has to go from the aluminum to your hand. Your hand conducts heat away better than the air unless the air is moving or very cold. I would think a big copper heatsink should make the bezel heat up more and fast not less.


----------



## FroggyTaco

recDNA said:


> Ya but all the copper can do is transfer the heat more effectively TO the aluminum. Then it has to go from the aluminum to your hand. Your hand conducts heat away better than the air unless the air is moving or very cold. I would think a big copper heatsink should make the bezel heat up more and fast not less.



That is exactly what you want....More heat in the bezel & tube means less heat around the emitter. Then you can place your hand on the tube or bezel as you see fit.


----------



## Noctis

recDNA said:


> Ya but all the copper can do is transfer the heat more effectively TO the aluminum. Then it has to go from the aluminum to your hand. Your hand conducts heat away better than the air unless the air is moving or very cold. I would think a big copper heatsink should make the bezel heat up more and fast not less.


Actually that's not the case.

If you lifted a copper block and then lifted an aluminum block of the same size, you'll notice the copper block will be much heavier.

If you think of the copper as a sponge, it's much denser than aluminum and can soak up more heat. So it'll take a while before that copper heatsink becomes "full", which gives the entire light more time for the heat to dissipate before the metal around the emitter is saturated with heat.


----------



## recDNA

FroggyTaco said:


> That is exactly what you want....More heat in the bezel & tube means less heat around the emitter. Then you can place your hand on the tube or bezel as you see fit.


 
I'm aware of that. Noctis is making a different argument entirely. 

My argument is that since the specific heat of copper is LOWER than the specific heat of Aluminum it takes LESS energy to heat copper so copper heats up FASTER and transfers heat to Aluminum QUICKER not slower. Copper isn't like a sponge that absorbs heat and holds it. It is a conductor that conducts heat AWAY from the LED and TO the aluminum bezel faster so the flashlight should feel warm faster and this is a GOOD thing since it is conducting the heat away from the LED faster.

Hey Big C - gonna test a M3LT?


----------



## Noctis

recDNA said:


> I'm aware of that. Noctis is making a different argument entirely.
> 
> My argument is that since the specific heat of copper is LOWER than the specific heat of Aluminum it takes LESS energy to heat copper so copper heats up FASTER and transfers heat to Aluminum QUICKER not slower. Copper isn't like a sponge that absorbs heat and holds it. It is a conductor that conducts heat AWAY from the LED and TO the aluminum bezel faster so the flashlight should feel warm faster and this is a GOOD thing since it is conducting the heat away from the LED faster.
> 
> Hey Big C - gonna test a M3LT?


I don't know, I always had it in my head that if you heated aluminum and copper of the same size and then left them both to cool, the copper would be warmer than aluminum.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Noctis said:


> I don't know, I always had it in my head that if you heated aluminum and copper of the same size and then left them both to cool, the copper would be warmer than aluminum.



Because copper stores more & dissipates slower IIRC.


----------



## Noctis

FroggyTaco said:


> Because copper stores more & *dissipates slower IIRC*.


Hmm, that seems to conflict with what recDNA says about the faster heat conductivity of copper.

Or does the dissipation only *seem* slower *because* the copper stores more heat while the heat dissipation rate into the air remains the same for both metals?

All the finer details are beyond my understanding, but I do notice this:
In high end custom made lights where cost efficiency isn't a concern and the limit is based solely on how much money you're willing to throw at it, a copper heatsink is favored over aluminum.

I can only take a leap of faith that there is a very good reason for that, and so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my custom Triple XP-G module will be a nice solid block of copper:devil:.


----------



## recDNA

I agree...because the copper will transfer the heat away from the pill to the bezel and aluminum body faster than aluminum keeping the OTF lumens more from dropping too rapidly.

Honestly, copper doesn't store heat. Bricks store heat.

BTW, my 6P with Nailbender SST-50 is discernably brighter with the McClicky than the Z41. I'll be darned if I can figure out why. I can't believe the Z41 offers much resistance. Not even 1 Ohm.


----------



## AlphaZen

With this thread being 27 pages long, I am hoping for an answer to a simple question without having to sift through the entire thread.

Are all of the lights tested documented and updated on the first page?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

AlphaZen said:


> With this thread being 27 pages long, I am hoping for an answer to a simple question without having to sift through the entire thread.
> 
> Are all of the lights tested documented and updated on the first page?



I can answer your question based on my checking, which you can do too. Last updates for posts 1 seem to be noted, at the bottom of the first post, as March 2010. Through the past 3 months their have been updates in various posts, but not added to the first, or second post yet. I have not read through every post so checking on my own, or your own, is the answer to your question.

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

I just started a new job and been busy digesting new information.

The 1st page has not been updated for some time because I want to re-list it with search function and organize it better.


I do have some more cool test subjects:

Nailbender Optic XR-E R2 280 OTF lumens
NeoFab D1500
Some other drop-ins


----------



## psychbeat

oooh Im excited to see the Neo module!


----------



## AlphaZen

Bullzeyebill said:


> I can answer your question based on my checking, which you can do too. Last updates for posts 1 seem to be noted, at the bottom of the first post, as March 2010. Through the past 3 months their have been updates in various posts, but not added to the first, or second post yet. I have not read through every post so checking on my own, or your own, is the answer to your question.
> 
> Bill


Thank you.



bigchelis said:


> I just started a new job and been busy digesting new information.
> 
> The 1st page has not been updated for some time because I want to re-list it with search function and organize it better.
> 
> 
> I do have some more cool test subjects:
> 
> Nailbender Optic XR-E R2 280 OTF lumens
> NeoFab D1500
> Some other drop-ins


Sounds great. The search function would be perfect.


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> I just started a new job and been busy digesting new information.
> 
> The 1st page has not been updated for some time because I want to re-list it with search function and organize it better.
> 
> 
> I do have some more cool test subjects:
> 
> *Nailbender Optic XR-E R2 280 OTF lumens*
> NeoFab D1500
> Some other drop-ins



I know exactly what you mean. I'm starting a new job soon too! 
Looking forward to that!!


Hmmm.. that mention of the XR-E drop-in has peaked my interest. From the beamshot I saw.. it looks like the E2DL...!
LX2 is ~250 - this should be same lux in P60 package. Awesome!


----------



## sfca

Don't mind if I ask here - what should a SST-50 driven at 2.8 & 2.5A make at the LED (emitter lumens)

Am I supposed to take 500-600 X 1.4 (and 1.6)?


----------



## bigchelis

So now I officially have a lot of test subjects just waiting for me to tests

D1500
D1000
KUKU E-series warm drop-in XP-G
KUKU E-series cool XP-G 3 mode
Anto XP-G R5 bigger copper version V.1.
???


----------



## ti-force

sfca said:


> Don't mind if I ask here - what should a SST-50 driven at 2.8 & 2.5A make at the LED (emitter lumens)
> 
> Am I supposed to take 500-600 X 1.4 (and 1.6)?



You're on the right track. You're taking the minimum luminous flux for a WJ bin emitter (500) and the maximum (600) luminous flux and using the Relative Luminous Flux vs Forward Current chart to get a rough estimate of emitter lumens. From looking at the chart, I think you're correct to multiply by 1.4 for the 2.5A drive current and around 1.6 for 2.8A drive current.

For what it's worth, I have a Tiablo A9 that I modded with an SSR-50 (WJ bin) and a 7135 based driver that's delivering around 3.1A to the emitter, with UCL glass and it makes 562.4 OTF at 1 sec and drops to 521.2 at 3 minutes with an AW IMR 18650.


----------



## SCEMan

ti-force said:


> You're on the right track. You're taking the minimum luminous flux for a WJ bin emitter (500) and the maximum (600) luminous flux and using the Relative Luminous Flux vs Forward Current chart to get a rough estimate of emitter lumens. From looking at the chart, I think you're correct to multiply by 1.4 for the 2.5A drive current and around 1.6 for 2.8A drive current.
> 
> For what it's worth, I have a Tiablo A9 that I modded with an SSR-50 (WJ bin) and a 7135 based driver that's delivering around 3.1A to the emitter, with UCL glass and it makes 562.4 OTF at 1 sec and drops to 521.2 at 3 minutes with an AW IMR 18650.


 
Have you modded the tail switch? If not I wonder how long it will last as the A8/A9s have a reputation for failing prematurely.


----------



## ti-force

SCEMan said:


> Have you modded the tail switch? If not I wonder how long it will last as the A8/A9s have a reputation for failing prematurely.



Yes I replaced the factory 2-mode switch with the same switch that comes in the Quark Tactical lights. I ordered them from KD and the only difference is the Quark switches have two tabs on the bottom of them to position them correctly on the board. They seem to be good switches and so far it's holding up well. Also, the Tiablo tactical switch (forwarding/momentary) has a great deal of resistance compared to my modded switch.


----------



## bigchelis

Here are the D1500 and D1000 readings.


----------



## frosty

That's very impressive. How does it compare to a M61. I've checked the list on the first post but can't see it. I'm fairly sure I've seen you refer to it.


----------



## icaruz

BigC,

How is the fitment of the Neofab dropin in the 6P bored tube?


----------



## bigchelis

icaruz said:


> BigC,
> 
> How is the fitment of the Neofab dropin in the 6P bored tube?


 

They fit great. A perfect fit. I did add some copper tape for a snug fit and in my L2 by Solarforce it would not light up without the copper tape.


----------



## bigchelis

The KuKu E2e/E2 drop-ins. The 1A model appears to be just as bright as the 1.4A model.


----------



## neoseikan

Hi, BigC, is E series dropin popular as the P series?
What's its diameter?


----------



## bigchelis

neoseikan said:


> Hi, BigC, is E series dropin popular as the P series?
> What's its diameter?


 

The E-series drop-ins are a bit less popular, but with good demand. Here is the sales thread:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=229715

I paid $45 for one of these in brass, but in copper I would be willing to pay $75.

After seing how awesome the copper works I think it is a must. You seen this before I bet Sorry, but I think I have posted these about 100 times now.:nana: Still an XR-E R2 at 390 OTF and 14.5k lux is freaking amazing. 

The optic you use on the D1500 is an 8degree right? I would love to see a 1~3 degree version?


----------



## neoseikan

The one I used is a 5 degrees one.
Keep looking for better throw.
Do you think I can use the same optic/ driver in the E series dropin?


----------



## SCEMan

Thanks for the info. I'm going to try an IMR 18650 in my DBS SMO (ucl) with a NB SST-50 2.8A DD (3-level) and see if there's much difference over my AW 2600s. I plan on using High mode sparingly so heat shouldn't be a problem (I hope)...



ti-force said:


> Yes I replaced the factory 2-mode switch with the same switch that comes in the Quark Tactical lights. I ordered them from KD and the only difference is the Quark switches have two tabs on the bottom of them to position them correctly on the board. They seem to be good switches and so far it's holding up well. Also, the Tiablo tactical switch (forwarding/momentary) has a great deal of resistance compared to my modded switch.


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> Here are the D1500 and D1000 readings.




Impressive!

Supposed to be optimized with 2XCR123?


----------



## ti-force

SCEMan said:


> Thanks for the info. I'm going to try an IMR 18650 in my DBS SMO (ucl) with a NB SST-50 2.8A DD (3-level) and see if there's much difference over my AW 2600s. I plan on using High mode sparingly so heat shouldn't be a problem (I hope)...



These are the results with the same light using an AW 2600mAh 18650:

1 Sec: 526.1
30 Sec: 518.8
1 Min: 511.5
2 Min: 503
3 Min: 501.8



Here are the AW IMR 18650 results again:

1 Sec: 562.4
30 Sec: 541.8
1 Min: 533.3
2 Min: 526.1
3 Min: 521.2



Here are the results for the AW 2600mAh using the factory forwarding tailswitch:

1 Sec: 469.1
30 Sec: 426.7
1 Min: 419.4
2 Min: 410.9
3 Min: 409.7



Here are the results for the AW IMR 18650 using the factory forwarding tailswitch:

1 Sec: 470.3
30 Sec: 401.2
1 Min: 391.5
2 Min: 397.6
3 Min: 391.5

As you can see, the numbers take a pretty good hit with the factory switch. At 30 seconds it's down almost 100 OTF with the 2600mAh in combination with the factory switch and the IMR run is down 140 OTF at 30 seconds with the factory switch. 7135 based drivers are usually affected more with added or reduced resistance than other driver types, so the factory switch may not have as large of an impact on other lights.

I have another factory forwarding switch that I installed on this light just to see what it would do and all it does is flicker some. My guess is that switch is on its way out if it sees much use in the future.


----------



## sfca

ti-force said:


> For what it's worth, I have a Tiablo A9 that I modded with an SSR-50 (WJ bin) and a 7135 based driver that's delivering around 3.1A to the emitter, with UCL glass and it makes 562.4 OTF at 1 sec and drops to 521.2 at 3 minutes with an AW IMR 18650.



Hmm... That seems a bit low. Est 25% losses thats 752 @ the emitter. Is there an explanation for this?


----------



## ti-force

sfca said:


> Hmm... That seems a bit low. Est 25% losses thats 752 @ the emitter. Is there an explanation for this?



I'm sure there's an explanation for this, but I don't have it. All I can say is that the datasheet numbers aren't absolute. They look real good on paper, but paper doesn't create light..... well, if you mix paper with high heat you can get fire, which could result in light  LOL......

Take a look at the SST-50 lights on the first page.


----------



## SCEMan

Thanks for the feedback - much appreciated.



ti-force said:


> As you can see, the numbers take a pretty good hit with the factory switch. At 30 seconds it's down almost 100 OTF with the 2600mAh in combination with the factory switch and the IMR run is down 140 OTF at 30 seconds with the factory switch. 7135 based drivers are usually affected more with added or reduced resistance than other driver types, so the factory switch may not have as large of an impact on other lights.


----------



## recDNA

I'm amazed the D1500 outthrows the D1000. How would the M60 rate (not the M61)?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> I'm amazed the D1500 outthrows the D1000. How would the M60 rate (not the M61)?


 

My M30 at 313 OTF lumens = 5.2k lux at 1 meter
My Dereelight OP P60 R2 1.2A 237 OTF lumens = 9.6k lux at 1 meter


My M30 is brighter due to its 1.8A of current off IMR 18650 in a 6P hosts. The M60 is identical, but less lumens and throw due to the 1A driver.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force said:


> Yes I replaced the factory 2-mode switch with the same switch that comes in the Quark Tactical lights. I ordered them from KD and the only difference is the Quark switches have two tabs on the bottom of them to position them correctly on the board. They seem to be good switches and so far it's holding up well. Also, the Tiablo tactical switch (forwarding/momentary) has a great deal of resistance compared to my modded switch.


 


Where is the link to this switch?

Is it a simple bolt-on to 6P's?

Thanks,
bigC


----------



## Bullzeyebill

sfca said:


> Hmm... That seems a bit low. Est 25% losses thats 752 @ the emitter. Is there an explanation for this?



Heat losses are at play after the 1 second reading. Better to use, say a 30 second number, then compare the 3 minute reading to that.

Bill


----------



## elho

elho said:


> MrGman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would love to see the beam pattern on this, is it mostly floodacious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely, yes.
> I will have beamshots ready sooner or later (of all optics options, too).
Click to expand...


Took a while while it was either raining or I lacked the time, but now I've got them ready as promised: beamshots of the Moddoo Triple-XP-G (and others).


----------



## recDNA

elho said:


> Took a while while it was either raining or I lacked the time, but now I've got them ready as promised: beamshots of the Moddoo Triple-XP-G (and others).


 

Great pics! What is the "narrow optic" you used with the Moddoo triple?


----------



## bigchelis

I got a Moddoo Zero Resistance tailcap brass insert. I didn't know if it would make a difference on regulated lights, so I decided to find out. The D1500 by Neofab is 100% regulated at 1.5A at the LED. It salvages a couple lumens, now off to the Direct Drive drop-ins:twothumbs


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> I got a Moddoo Zero Resistance tailcap brass insert. I didn't know if it would make a difference on regulated lights, so I decided to find out. The D1500 by Neofab is 100% regulated at 1.5A at the LED. It salvages a couple lumens, now off to the Direct Drive drop-ins:twothumbs


Or you could try Moddoo's regulated drop-in.

I don't think direct drive is necessary, you just need something that pulls more than 3 amps...with good heatsinking.

It would also be interesting to see if you could lower resistance in the overall setup to get 5+ Amps out of an AW 18650 2600mAh cell. I know VanIsleDSM planned to make a 1400mAh per LED option for his copper version(5600mAh total draw), but I'm not sure a single AW 2600 cell can even discharge that much current.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> Where is the link to this switch?
> 
> Is it a simple bolt-on to 6P's?
> 
> Thanks,
> bigC



I'm not really familiar with the 6P's, so I can't really say if it will work or not. It's just a bare switch with 2 legs that have to be soldered. Click here for the KD link.

I used one of my Tiablo A9 two-mode switches, removed the switch from the board and replaced the switch with one of the KD switches. There was a little more to it than that, but it's pretty straightforward.

KD Switches:










Modded Tiablo Switch:


















Tiablo Modded Switch on Left, Quark Tactical/Turbo Switch on Right: (notice the resemblance )


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> I got a Moddoo Zero Resistance tailcap brass insert. I didn't know if it would make a difference on regulated lights, so I decided to find out. The D1500 by Neofab is 100% regulated at 1.5A at the LED. It salvages a couple lumens,


I think it would have been more interesting to see the difference vor the single cell setup, at the high voltage of two cells compared to Vf, there is ample headroom for the driver to work even with higher resistance. On a single cell, right on the edge of dropping out of regulation, things are different though.



bigchelis said:


> now off to the Direct Drive drop-ins:twothumbs


Please also compare to the McClicky tailcap with at least one of them (preferably one pulling a high current).


----------



## rickypanecatyl

bigchelis said:


> After seing how awesome the copper works I think it is a must. You seen this before I bet Sorry, but I think I have posted these about 100 times now.:nana: Still an XR-E R2 at 390 OTF and 14.5k lux is freaking amazing.


 

I missed this!! Where can I get a 390 OTF R2 at 14.5K lux?

Big C - any chance you've gotten your rebel reflector, copper heat sink Lambda yet?


----------



## bigchelis

rickypanecatyl said:


> I missed this!! Where can I get a 390 OTF R2 at 14.5K lux?
> 
> Big C - any chance you've gotten your rebel reflector, copper heat sink Lambda yet?


 

The XRE-R2 L1 build was made by Milky. Now that he has done one he said he can duplicate it alot easier. My bet you would wait alot less for it. The lux numbers are super high compared to my other lights because the Surefire TiR optic just works at throw and the R2 is being driven at 1.8A~2A. At those current levels the copper slug helps alot.

The Lamda VARA200 copper version with modified heatsink design should be ready by the 1st week of July and I was told to expect 2000 OTF lumens. One way to find out

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

I can re-test the Linger Special regulated at 2.8A with the Moddoo ZEro Resistance mod..Maybe 800 lumens are possible now.


----------



## ptolemy

bigchelis said:


> This is the 1st set of lights I have tested with the 24.5in Sphere. It appears to be just right, but I may tweak a bit more which will result in as much as 1% difference.
> 
> For now its good to go. I did test the Lambda VARA2000 and it is over 1800 OTF at 1sec and still is 1550ish at 20 seconds:twothumbs. The Vara2000 is the brighters light I have tested and using the same calibration, 24.5in Sphere, and Meter it is still brighter then the SR90 and Howitzer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NOTE:* I removed the tactical bezel from the Olight SR90, but managed to keep the glass in place. The lumens go up about 200 OTF. I suspect the tactical teech are taking up a little bit of the spill area because the lux figures where identical with/without tactical teeth bezel.


 


bigchelis said:


> I can re-test the Linger Special regulated at 2.8A with the Moddoo ZEro Resistance mod..Maybe 800 lumens are possible now.


 
i wonder if running 18650x3 instead of d lions would give xtar better lumens


----------



## recDNA

Can the Lambda 2000 throw like the SR90?


----------



## FroggyTaco

recDNA said:


> Can the Lambda 2000 throw like the SR90?



If you remove the dome that is on top of the LED it greatly increases throw. If it is enough to take a SR90, I do not know for sure but IIRC it does that task fairly well.


----------



## bigchelis

When I get mine if I remove the dome it may give me 3x more throw and put it right in that SR90 or more throw range.


----------



## smokelaw1

I have the dome off the LED on mine, and it throws like the ****ens. I don't have a SR90 (just too big for me to need), but I honeslty don't know how it could throw too much better, the light is so perferlty collimated in the Lambda, with just the right spill...it really is an amazing beam. Might be a touch too throw-centric for most uses, but when you need to reach out....it sure reaches.


----------



## Noctis

FroggyTaco said:


> If you remove the dome that is on top of the LED it greatly increases throw. If it is enough to take a SR90, I do not know for sure but IIRC it does that task fairly well.


The question is:
*Why* would anyone *want* to do *this* terrible *thing*?

You have to keep in mind that while lux increases, lumens will decrease.

I don't remember by how much, but I suspect it's a sizable chunk, as my dedomed SST-90 just doesn't look as bright as my domed one, even though the dedomed emitter draws more current.

Wouldn't it be simpler to use the SST-50 variant for more throw? It throws just as far without pumping out twice as much heat.

Sure the dedomed light throws farther, but stick a piano convex lens in front of the domed light and it will throw just as far. You get a laughable amount of throw by doing both, but then you may as well use a laser pointer.


----------



## FroggyTaco

LOL you make it sound like I am molesting the LED or something. 

If I want more flood, I will get another Wildcat once I can have a neutral option. Also no SST-50 domed or other wise is gonna deliver around 2K OTF lumens so that is why I am choosing to do it. 

BTW how does the undomed LED draw more current? My understanding was you only lost lumens.

Travis



Noctis said:


> The question is:
> *Why* would anyone *want* to do *this* terrible *thing*?
> 
> You have to keep in mind that while lux increases, lumens will decrease.
> 
> I don't remember by how much, but I suspect it's a sizable chunk, as my dedomed SST-90 just doesn't look as bright as my domed one, even though the dedomed emitter draws more current.
> 
> Wouldn't it be simpler to use the SST-50 variant for more throw? It throws just as far without pumping out twice as much heat.
> 
> Sure the dedomed light throws farther, but stick a piano convex lens in front of the domed light and it will throw just as far. You get a laughable amount of throw by doing both, but then you may as well use a laser pointer.


----------



## daimleramg

FroggyTaco said:


> LOL you make it sound like I am molesting the LED or something.
> 
> If I want more flood, I will get another Wildcat once I can have a neutral option. Also no SST-50 domed or other wise is gonna deliver around 2K OTF lumens so that is why I am choosing to do it.
> 
> BTW how does the undomed LED draw more current? My understanding was you only lost lumens.
> 
> Travis


 



saabluster said:


> I think it would be better to start out with an LED made to be without a dome.


----------



## Noctis

FroggyTaco said:


> LOL you make it sound like I am molesting the LED or something.
> 
> If I want more flood, I will get another Wildcat once I can have a neutral option. Also no SST-50 domed or other wise is gonna deliver around 2K OTF lumens so that is why I am choosing to do it.
> 
> BTW how does the undomed LED draw more current? My understanding was you only lost lumens.
> 
> Travis


Erm, I doubt you'll get 2k lumens from a dedomed 90. In fact, the spec for the already dedomed emitter says that it's 1800 emitter lumens at 9A, which probably comes out to about 1400 OTF lumens(wild guess at 25% lumen loss).

Wouldn't it be more efficient to have maybe 1,000 OTF lumens with a 5A draw? The heat would be less, leading to longer continuous runtimes with less lumen loss.

Dedoming the LED didn't increase the current draw, it's just that I have some copper wire strands soldered to the spring of the drop-in module to increase the current draw, while my domed module is simply run as is without any resistance mods.

The dedomed emitter draws 4.5A from an IMR 26650 cell while the domed emitter gets 3.5-4A from an IMR 18650. The domed module is clearly brighter than the other.


----------



## recDNA

Noctis said:


> Erm, I doubt you'll get 2k lumens from a dedomed 90. In fact, the spec for the already dedomed emitter says that it's 1800 emitter lumens at 9A, which probably comes out to about 1400 OTF lumens(wild guess at 25% lumen loss).
> 
> Wouldn't it be more efficient to have maybe 1,000 OTF lumens with a 5A draw? The heat would be less, leading to longer continuous runtimes with less lumen loss.
> 
> Dedoming the LED didn't increase the current draw, it's just that I have some copper wire strands soldered to the spring of the drop-in module to increase the current draw, while my domed module is simply run as is without any resistance mods.
> 
> The dedomed emitter draws 4.5A from an IMR 26650 cell while the domed emitter gets 3.5-4A from an IMR 18650. The domed module is clearly brighter than the other.


 
So a copper spring would work even better?


----------



## Noctis

recDNA said:


> So a copper spring would work even better?


Actually it's copper wire soldered to the spring, and I wouldn't recommend doing it.

In a roundabout way, I suspect the higher current led to extreme heat, which loosened the dome on the emitter, which was why I popped it off in the first place.

Also, if the resistance gets too low when direct driving with an IMR 18650 cell, you could instantly fry the emitter. I only use the module with my 26650 host because the battery has a lower discharge rate than the IMR 18650.


----------



## MrGman

recDNA said:


> So a copper spring would work even better?


 
ever notice that no one makes/uses plain or pure copper springs for electrical contacts? Haven't seen any in a flashlight yet. Not in any type of electrical contact. hhhhmmmmmm. 

They don't really work, first off your making a galvanic cell with other metals, such as Aluminum. Aluminum will sacrifice. Copper will corrode, usually very limited but much greater in the presence of moisture. It builds up a patina layer that stops further corrosion but that changes contact resistance a whole bunch. So if there is moisture and you have a galvanic cell, now you have a voltage drop just for that. Mechanical issues to make a stable spring are there as well. Berylium copper alloys make for great contact springs. Too bad they are toxic and no one wants to risk using them in a low budget commercial application. Thus we have steel springs and the moddoo all brass zero resistance switch. 

Not saying it can't be done but there is a reason why you don't see it already.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

How about a flat copper spring? They could be dressed up ever so often with dextroit gold. Just thinking out loud here.

Bill


----------



## FroggyTaco

This light in my opinion has nothing to do with efficiency. I will buy a Wildcat for efficiency. I am after max throw with a substantial hotspot in a "affordable" package & I don't care about run time. However this light has 32 brightness levels, so I could easily obtain the whole 5A w/ 1K lumens thing if I so desired.

If you look at this post in this thread you will see that 1K from a SST-50 OTF initially is possible & the new lights have a copper heatsink which will only improve things. Also UCL is being employed vs borofloat which helps a little as well. 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3420904&postcount=785

Either way BigC is getting essentially the same light & he will test it domed & undomed so we can all see just what the real numbers are. Either way I am gonna have a lot of light coming out of a "3D Mag"

Travis



Noctis said:


> Erm, I doubt you'll get 2k lumens from a dedomed 90. In fact, the spec for the already dedomed emitter says that it's 1800 emitter lumens at 9A, which probably comes out to about 1400 OTF lumens(wild guess at 25% lumen loss).
> 
> Wouldn't it be more efficient to have maybe 1,000 OTF lumens with a 5A draw? The heat would be less, leading to longer continuous runtimes with less lumen loss.
> 
> Dedoming the LED didn't increase the current draw, it's just that I have some copper wire strands soldered to the spring of the drop-in module to increase the current draw, while my domed module is simply run as is without any resistance mods.
> 
> The dedomed emitter draws 4.5A from an IMR 26650 cell while the domed emitter gets 3.5-4A from an IMR 18650. The domed module is clearly brighter than the other.


----------



## recDNA

Please be sure to post beamshots! I like drooling with envy.


----------



## recDNA

MrGman said:


> ever notice that no one makes/uses plain or pure copper springs for electrical contacts? Haven't seen any in a flashlight yet. Not in any type of electrical contact. hhhhmmmmmm.
> 
> They don't really work, first off your making a galvanic cell with other metals, such as Aluminum. Aluminum will sacrifice. Copper will corrode, usually very limited but much greater in the presence of moisture. It builds up a patina layer that stops further corrosion but that changes contact resistance a whole bunch. So if there is moisture and you have a glavanic cell, now you have a voltage drop just for that. Mechanical issues to make a stable spring are there as well. Berylium copper alloys make for great contact springs. Too bad they are toxic and no one wants to risk using them in a low budget commercial application. Thus we have steel springs and the moddoo all brass zero resistance switch.
> 
> Not saying it can't be done but there is a reason why you don't see it already.



Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Forgot to respond to your post.

I am not the builder so I don't make the choices but I can see a few reasons why.

Mine is gonna be a 4500K & those SBT's only go down to 5700K.

Also these lights are pushing up to 12-13.5A through the LED & the SBT notes state the absolute max is 9A.


----------



## Moddoo

Hey Big C,
Nice to see that you have a ZeroRez tail to play with.

Do you have any high current lights to try this on?


----------



## bigchelis

Moddoo said:


> Hey Big C,
> Nice to see that you have a ZeroRez tail to play with.
> 
> Do you have any high current lights to try this on?


 

The only higher current drop-in I have now is the Linger Special regualted at 2.8A. 

On another note:
Here is the SSR-90 65k I am getting from Lambdalights for testing.

I expect mid next week I will have the results for the potential 2000 lumen monster. 

_*COPPER!!!!*_


----------



## recDNA

Heatsink looks great! Lambda SST-90 Mag is just so darn big.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> Heatsink looks great! Lambda SST-90 Mag is just so darn big.


 

It is a 3D Mag and next to other lights in its lumen range like the SR90 and howitzer it looks and feels tiny


----------



## recDNA

Oh I agree. I've just moved on from giant lights because smaller ones are so bright now. You know if he could do it with a 2 X D Maglite I'd be in. 3 X D is just too big...and as I've said before...the SR90 meant for Paul Bunyan - not ordinary sized humans.


----------



## Noctis

Any chance you'll be testing the new Moddoo works?

Specifically the production Triple XP-G regulated and the M2-50.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Any chance you'll be testing the new Moddoo works?
> 
> Specifically the production Triple XP-G regulated and the M2-50.


 

If anybody sends one in = no problemo


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> If anybody sends one in = no problemo


I don't think I could bear to part with it...at least until I get my light from Milky.

Until then, someone would have to pry my M2-50 from my cold dead fingers:devil:.


----------



## recDNA

I can't wait to compare the throw of my M2-50 with my Nailbender SST-50. Not really a fair fight because the Nailbender is a 3 mode regulated but the Nailbender is much more practical and blows away my small mc-e lights.


----------



## sfca

Hey has anybody ever tested the lux of the Nailbender XR-E optic drop-ins? 
I swear I've seen it *somewhere*.. I'd be so embarrassed if it was in my dreams!

What's this M2-50 everybody's talking about?


----------



## bigchelis

sfca said:


> Hey has anybody ever tested the lux of the Nailbender XR-E optic drop-ins?
> I swear I've seen it *somewhere*.. I'd be so embarrassed if it was in my dreams!
> 
> What's this M2-50 everybody's talking about?


 

My Nailbender XR-E R2 8 Degree Optic does 290 OTF and 6k or so lux at 1 meter. Yes, the smooth OP P60 reflectors still have more lux and throw(8~9K at 1meter).

To be fair my M30 and M60's have similar throw, but that is expected considering they both use 8 degree optic. I expected more throw, but the beam is soo nice and tight that its hard to complain.

bigC


----------



## ElectronGuru

sfca said:


> What's this M2-50 everybody's talking about?


----------



## recDNA

What a tease!


----------



## bigchelis

ElectronGuru said:


>


 \


I always disliked these bezels due to the stock lens and shock isolation which combined would rob as much as 20% of the OTF lumens. 

It looks like you not only took care of those 2 issues, but you manage to put a bigger heatsink in there to accomodate the SST-50 emitter


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> My Nailbender XR-E R2 8 Degree Optic does 290 OTF and 6k or so lux at 1 meter. *Yes, the smooth OP P60 reflectors still have more lux and throw(8~9K at 1meter).*
> 
> To be fair my M30 and M60's have similar throw, but that is expected considering they both use 8 degree optic. I expected more throw, but the beam is soo nice and tight that its hard to complain.
> 
> bigC



You mean the smooth/OP reflectors with the XR-E or XP-G (or both!). 
290 OTF.. that's more lumens but less lux? That does seem kinda odd 

...
Ahhh I see the description for the XP-G reflector
_*This is a picture of the new reflector made for the Cree XPE & XPG This gives a very smooth and concentrated hotspot.*_

XP-G beamshot and XR-E optic beamshot; both look very concentrated indeed.


----------



## sfca

ElectronGuru said:


>







That is... _incredible_.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> It is a 3D Mag and next to other lights in its lumen range like the SR90 and howitzer it looks and feels tiny



BigC - a long time ago you tested some drop in with different hosts and the Seraph didn't do as well as the other host (I think a 6P).
Do you have any idea why the Seraph didn't do as well? It may have even been a test bt Gman, I can't recall.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> BigC - a long time ago you tested some drop in with different hosts and the Seraph didn't do as well as the other host (I think a 6P).
> Do you have any idea why the Seraph didn't do as well? It may have even been a test bt Gman, I can't recall.


 

*I was confused myself. The Seraph had an UCL lens too and I expected the same OTF results, but it consitantly gave less:shrug:*







The 290 OTF XR-E R2 is from Nailbenders new Optic, which is not for XP-G's. The XR-E R2 is driven at 1.3A at the LED, which is why the lumens are soo high. My M60's are about 230 OTF at 1A at the LED, so to see almost 300 OTF is expected considering the increase in current.

The P60 reflectored XP-G R5's at 400ish lumens with OP reflectors give out 5k~6k 1 meter lux.

In P60 Style the KIng OF Throw is still a smooth P60 reflectored XR-E R2 at 9k 1m lux.


----------



## recDNA

G


bigchelis said:


> *I was confused myself. The Seraph had an UCL lens too and I expected the same OTF results, but it consitantly gave less:shrug:
> QUOTE]
> *
> *Maybe it was the clickie. Do you remember if you tried the twisty?*


----------



## sfca

Thanks BigC!

M2-50 looks nice.. but I'm a clicky kinda guy. How about a C2-G?


----------



## rickypanecatyl

Big C - when you get your Lambda any chance you can post some beamshots with and without the dome on? I'm getting one WITH the dome though I think I'll end up removing it. Since it's not reversable I'm curious what the difference is before I do it


----------



## Bullzeyebill

You guys talk to Lambda about removing the dome?

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

Bullzeyebill said:


> You guys talk to Lambda about removing the dome?
> 
> Bill


 

He builds them dome free, but then I can only test it in that configurations. 


The SST-50 = 3X the throw 

Does anybody know if the throw is just as amazing when you remove the dome on the SST-90?


----------



## Glenn7

bigchelis said:


> Does anybody know if the throw is just as amazing when you remove the dome on the SST-90?



oh yeah! like an HID :thumbsup:


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> He builds them dome free, but then I can only test it in that configurations.
> 
> 
> The SST-50 = 3X the throw
> 
> Does anybody know if the throw is just as amazing when you remove the dome on the SST-90?


A dedomed SST-90 will throw further than a domed SST-50.

The difference is apparent with an aspheric.


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> A dedomed SST-90 will throw further than a domed SST-50.
> 
> The difference is apparent with an aspheric.


 

Let me re-state my question.....

My SST-50 from Lambdalights.com did 3x more throw when I removed the dome.

My question is = will this happen to the SSt-90 too or not as much?

Thanks,
bigC


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> Let me re-state my question.....
> 
> My SST-50 from Lambdalights.com did 3x more throw when I removed the dome.
> 
> My question is = will this happen to the SSt-90 too or not as much?
> 
> Thanks,
> bigC


Yes, but I'm not sure how big the difference is compared to a dedomed SST-50.

But again, my dedomed 90 throws further than my domed 50, so that should at least give you a good idea.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Noctis said:


> Yes, but I'm not sure how big the difference is compared to a dedomed SST-50.
> 
> But again, my dedomed 90 throws further than my domed 50, so that should at least give you a good idea.



Wouldn't that be a more impressive statement if the dedomed 50 out threw the domed 90? 

Is that what you meant?


----------



## rickypanecatyl

I don't know... I guess I have expectations for the 50 for throw as its a smaller die


----------



## FroggyTaco

rickypanecatyl said:


> I don't know... I guess I have expectations for the 50 for throw as its a smaller die



Ummm...even though the 90 is 9mm² & the 50 is 5mm² the surface brightness is higher on the 90 so it should throw better than the 50.

Plus there is double the lumens being thrown down range.


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> With the dome:
> 
> Lumens are greater
> no heat on bezel/tube
> less lux
> I can test topped off cells and no loss in lumens
> tint does turn kinda blue, but the lumens stay high so I kept the test going. The tint turns white after 30sec.
> With NO dome:
> 
> Lumens are less
> Bezel/tube get hot or warm
> 3X more lux
> Tint turns blue with topped off cells and I got 300 or so lumens.
> At 4V total the lumens stayed consistant and no blue.
> I think I need a bigger heatsink now to re-test.



Any scientific reason for the no-dome effects? With a lower-driven light safe to assume effects will be equivalently less.
I should go find some beamshots!


----------



## rickypanecatyl

My guess would be more of the emittor light hitting the Mag reflector. With the dome on, much of the light may bypass the reflector


----------



## bigchelis

You can now use find feature on 1st page.:thumbsup:

Organized by P60 drop-ins, Surefire lights, Mag builds, and production lights.


----------



## MrGman

Good work bigC. At some point in time you are going to have to go on to "Part 2". When the mods tell you its time, you should reserve the first 3 posts in the new thread right away and transfer all of your collection of readings that are gathered into the various pages into the first 3 posts to have on page one. Try and have them sorted out as best possible in the posts so you can just add new numbers into them as appropriate for the type of light they are. If you need 4 posts or so, so be it. The new one will get the sticky and link to the old one. It can only get bigger with all the lights you are testing. The more the merrier. 

Keep up the great work but don't let this consume you.


----------



## AlphaZen

bigchelis said:


> You can now use find feature on 1st page.:thumbsup:
> 
> Organized by P60 drop-ins, Surefire lights, Mag builds, and production lights.


Well done, sir. :thumbsup: I do see some lights that were on the list that are no longer on the list, such as the Quark lights. :shrug:


----------



## smokelaw1

ElectronGuru said:


>


 
Sorry to hijack AND waste more thread space with this...but WOWOWOWOWOW! Did this already come up for sale and get sold out? 

OMG. Mewant! Meneed! More soon?


----------



## bigchelis

AlphaZen said:


> Well done, sir. :thumbsup: I do see some lights that were on the list that are no longer on the list, such as the Quark lights. :shrug:


 


I still need to add about 20 lights...so those will come soon.


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> I still need to add about 20 lights...so those will come soon.




Ahh! I see the lux #s for Neofab's drop-in. :thumbsup:
So Anto's XP-G R5 still reigns supreme in lux for XP-G drop-ins, even with TIR and 1.5A.. 


_Edit: Heads up you mislabeled the D1000 as XP-G_


----------



## bigchelis

sfca said:


> Ahh! I see the lux #s for Neofab's drop-in. :thumbsup:
> So Anto's XP-G R5 still reigns supreme in lux for XP-G drop-ins, even with TIR and 1.5A..
> 
> 
> _Edit: Heads up you mislabeled the D1000 as XP-G_


 

Thanks,

I just fixed it. The XP-E is not good for throw:shakehead


----------



## recDNA

I was fortunate enough to win an LX2 Lumamax in Greta's last contest and I'd LOVE to have Milky make it into a thrower like yours with that big heatsink but when I checked out Milky's thread I saw there is an endless waiting list of guys waiting for THEIR special mod. Oh well, the LX2 is darn good as is and I am a lucky guy to score one gratis!


----------



## Bullzeyebill

My wife won an LX2 at MattK's SHOT party this year, and gave it to me. Bless her heart. Yes it is truly a very bright light, and my bounce with lightmeter has it right up their with Gene's M61 is output bounce lux numbers. I mean to say that my LX2 may be putting out approximately 260 lumens at startup. This number is an estimate and is compared to other LED lights that I own, including Gene's M60's and his M61. I, of course, do not own an IS and who knows what it would measure in one.

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> I was fortunate enough to win an LX2 Lumamax in Greta's last contest and I'd LOVE to have Milky make it into a thrower like yours with that big heatsink but when I checked out Milky's thread I saw there is an endless waiting list of guys waiting for THEIR special mod. Oh well, the LX2 is darn good as is and I am a lucky guy to score one gratis!


 

Even better, there is a new ez900 R2 that is smaller and suppose to offer alot more throw. At least that is the talk around here.

Milky said there is an old Lux Optic Surefire used a while ago. He said with that optic and a K2 TFFC at 2A it should be alot more narrow beam and less spill then even my L1 Extreme.


So, now you have 2 more options to think about. I myself want to purchase a few ez900 R2's to try them out in Mag builds.

bigC


----------



## AlphaZen

bigC,
This is an amazing resource and a huge effort on your part. It is very much appreciated.


----------



## sfca

AlphaZen said:


> bigC,
> This is an amazing resource and a huge effort on your part. It is very much appreciated.



Yes.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> Even better, there is a new ez900 R2 that is smaller and suppose to offer alot more throw. At least that is the talk around here.
> 
> Milky said there is an old Lux Optic Surefire used a while ago. He said with that optic and a K2 TFFC at 2A it should be alot more narrow beam and less spill then even my L1 Extreme.
> 
> 
> So, now you have 2 more options to think about. I myself want to purchase a few ez900 R2's to try them out in Mag builds.
> 
> bigC



There's always something better coming down the pipeline eventually. But your L1 extreme would suffice for now!


----------



## sfca

I gotta question for all: How can we get the math for differences in output between the same light?

There are regulated lights tested at increased output with different batteries; 1 battery type will run at lower amps (eg. 2.0 vs 2.2) then the other but produce more lumens. 

This curiosity was originally perked by the LX2's 249 lumens @ 800-850mah. 
How do we use the data sheets from Cree to get this result? IIRC the Milky Creemator was tested at less but it's driven harder.


_P.S. I don't like math_


----------



## bigchelis

sfca said:


> I gotta question for all: How can we get the math for differences in output between the same light?
> 
> There are regulated lights tested at increased output with different batteries; 1 battery type will run at lower amps (eg. 2.0 vs 2.2) then the other but produce more lumens.
> 
> This curiosity was originally perked by the LX2's 249 lumens @ 800-850mah.
> How do we use the data sheets from Cree to get this result? IIRC the Milky Creemator was tested at less but it's driven harder.
> 
> 
> _P.S. I don't like math_


 



The Creemator MrGman tested was around 240 OTF and had a XR-E Q5 driven at 1.3A via Accor driver and 2 Surefire CR123 primaries.


Also, the vf varies from on LED to the next even if they are the same bin.


----------



## ti-force

sfca said:


> I gotta question for all: How can we get the math for differences in output between the same light?
> 
> There are regulated lights tested at increased output with different batteries; 1 battery type will run at lower amps (eg. 2.0 vs 2.2) then the other but produce more lumens.
> 
> This curiosity was originally perked by the LX2's 249 lumens @ 800-850mah.
> How do we use the data sheets from Cree to get this result? IIRC the Milky Creemator was tested at less but it's driven harder.
> 
> 
> _P.S. I don't like math_



Like BigC said, there are a lot of variables. You could probably get a rough estimate if you had all of the info needed to make these calculations. Emitter bin, emitter Vf, battery Vf, battery If, driver efficiency etc....... You would need this info for a light with know OTF lumens, and for the light in question too. Or, you could just say, light A puts out X amount of lumens, so since light B has the exact same components, it should be close to the same output with all things being equal .


----------



## milkyspit

sfca said:


> I gotta question for all: How can we get the math for differences in output between the same light?
> 
> There are regulated lights tested at increased output with different batteries; 1 battery type will run at lower amps (eg. 2.0 vs 2.2) then the other but produce more lumens.
> 
> This curiosity was originally perked by the LX2's 249 lumens @ 800-850mah.
> How do we use the data sheets from Cree to get this result? IIRC the Milky Creemator was tested at less but it's driven harder.
> 
> 
> _P.S. I don't like math_




The LX2 measurement of 800-850mA (not mah, which is a rating of battery capacity) was battery draw. The LX2 circuit converts excess voltage into additional current. Making a few reasonable assumptions, that would suggest the LX2 delivers something around 1.2A to its LED. Since its LED is likely an R2 bin, one would expect it to deliver additional output... in fact, if the Creemator tested had an R2 rather than Q5 bin and everything else about the light was identical, one would expect to see 255 lumens out the front.


----------



## JB

Hi BigC, by any chance have you tested the Olight M21 or M20 R5?


----------



## bigchelis

JB said:


> Hi BigC, by any chance have you tested the Olight M21 or M20 R5?


 

Not yet!!!!


If anybody has one; send it on over. If they are anywhere near as good as the EagleTac XP-G lights then 300 OTF guranteed.


----------



## JB

I believe the EagleTac version is driven harder, not surprised it can hit 300 OTF (they claim 380 emitter lumens). The M20 R5 is a claimed 320 emitter lumens.


----------



## bigchelis

Here it is folks: the Lambdalights VARA2000 didn't let me down. 

The aluminum and copper OTF readings were taken with the same Tenergy C cells topped off, the same meter, the same 24.5in Sphere, and the same tester (me). The copper version is $20 dollars more and worth its weight in gold.

*Light_____________________LED_____________ Cells____________ Lumens____ Time___5m lux__1m lux (cal)__*
Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________1839.4_____ 1 sec____1,396_______34,900___
Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________1511.5_____23 sec________________________
3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________1479.4_____30 sec________________________
*_________*__________________________________________________ ____ 1417.4______1 min________________________
___________________Aluminum Version______________________________ 1346.3______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 1300.5______3 min________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 1282.4______4 min________________________
Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________2110.1______1 sec________________________
3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________2061.9_____ 30 sec_______________________
*_________*__________________________________________________ ____ 1935.8______1 min________________________
___________________*COPPER Version*_______________________________ 1802.8______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 1754.6______3 min________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 1715.6______4 min________________________


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> Here it is folks: the Lambdalights VARA2000 didn't let me down.
> 
> The aluminum and copper OTF readings were taken with the same Tenergy C cells topped off, the same meter, the same 24.5in Sphere, and the same tester (me). The copper version is $20 dollars more and worth its weight in gold.
> 
> *Light_____________________LED_____________ Cells____________ Lumens____ Time___5m lux__1m lux (cal)__*
> Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________1839.4_____ 1 sec____1,396_______34,900___
> Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________1511.5_____23 sec________________________
> 3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________1479.4_____30 sec________________________
> *_________*__________________________________________________ ____ 1417.4______1 min________________________
> ___________________Aluminum Version______________________________ 1346.3______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 1300.5______3 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 1282.4______4 min________________________
> Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________2110.1______1 sec________________________
> 3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________2061.9_____ 30 sec_______________________
> *_________*__________________________________________________ ____ 1935.8______1 min________________________
> ___________________*COPPER Version*_______________________________ 1802.8______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 1754.6______3 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 1715.6______4 min________________________


Hmm, what about a copper version of the Varapower 1000 with an SST-50 emitter? I wouldn't mind seeing if the copper has any significant impact on a low current draw light.

Oh, and would this be the first 2000 lumen light you've tested?


----------



## bigchelis

Noctis said:


> Hmm, what about a copper version of the Varapower 1000 with an SST-50 emitter? I wouldn't mind seeing if the copper has any significant impact on a low current draw light.
> 
> Oh, and would this be the first 2000 lumen light you've tested?


 

The copper I think helps in all lights. Just look at the Anto P60 drop-ins.


This is the 1st 2000 plus lumen light I test. Hotwires would certainly provide us with more lumens, but the 24.5in sphere will not survive.


Oh, and the copper VARA2000 heatsink is only 1.58in long. I have an SSR-90 that I hope to put a 2in~3in long heatsink just like the VARA2000. Of course Kevin does alot of neat tricks to LED, Star, and heatsink to get those OTF lumens soo high.


----------



## Noctis

bigchelis said:


> The copper I think helps in all lights. *Just look at the Anto P60 drop-ins.*
> 
> 
> This is the 1st 2000 plus lumen light I test. Hotwires would certainly provide us with more lumens, but the 24.5in sphere will not survive.
> 
> 
> Oh, and the copper VARA2000 heatsink is only 1.58in long. I have an SSR-90 that I hope to put a 2in~3in long heatsink just like the VARA2000. Of course Kevin does alot of neat tricks to LED, Star, and heatsink to get those OTF lumens soo high.


Uhh, not to sound like a pessimist, but aren't those numbers more or less the same for the Thrunite 1.5A drop-in?

I'm actually surprised the lumens output drops at all considering the emitter is mounted on a copper slug. But then again, I feel that copper heatsinking is just overkill unless you're pushing more than 2 amps.

Still, I feel tempted to buy myself a Vara2000 even though I know full well I'm not going to have much opportunity to use it unless I sign up as a police officer or something.

Considering a small M2-50 head alone would cost me $170, it just seems like a no-brainer to spend a mere $50 more for twice the lumens.


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> You can now use find feature on 1st page.:thumbsup:


 Great! That makes things easier and is much more convenient.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> Here it is folks: the Lambdalights VARA2000 didn't let me down.
> 
> The aluminum and copper OTF readings were taken with the same Tenergy C cells topped off, the same meter, the same 24.5in Sphere, and the same tester (me). The copper version is $20 dollars more and worth its weight in gold.
> 
> *Light_____________________LED_____________ Cells____________ Lumens____ Time___5m lux__1m lux (cal)__*
> Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________1839.4_____ 1 sec____1,396_______34,900___
> Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________1511.5_____23 sec________________________
> 3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________1479.4_____30 sec________________________
> *_________*__________________________________________________ ____ 1417.4______1 min________________________
> ___________________Aluminum Version______________________________ 1346.3______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 1300.5______3 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 1282.4______4 min________________________
> Lambdalights___________SST-90____________4 NiMH C Tenergy__________2110.1______1 sec________________________
> 3D Mag _____________VARAPower2000_____________*________*__________2061.9_____ 30 sec_______________________
> *_________*__________________________________________________ ____ 1935.8______1 min________________________
> ___________________*COPPER Version*_______________________________ 1802.8______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 1754.6______3 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 1715.6______4 min________________________





BigC,

Is this the custom light you've been working on? The one you started a thread about in the Homemade and Modified section, where you planned to use the same exact emitter etc..., but change only the heatsinks out? If not, were both of these lights the same light and you swapped the emitter onto each heatsink before testing, or is this two different lights with the same type of components, but different components none the less. I.E., different driver, different emitter, different switch etc.... etc.....? Just curious.


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force said:


> BigC,
> 
> Is this the custom light you've been working on? The one you started a thread about in the Homemade and Modified section, where you planned to use the same exact emitter etc..., but change only the heatsinks out? If not, were both of these lights the same light and you swapped the emitter onto each heatsink before testing, or is this two different lights with the same type of components, but different components none the less. I.E., different driver, different emitter, different switch etc.... etc.....? Just curious.


 

No, this VARA2000 is semi-production by lamdalights.com.

I did manage to score just yesterday some SSR-90 65k top bin's for my personal project. I will be meeting with another member this weekend to decide how to cut the copper/aluminum for max heatsink size. Lamda did give me his personal specs on his heatsink to make things easier for me.


Lamda also just confirmed his heatsinks are right under a 1in long. I plan to skip the side switch and add another inch or two by doing so. Heavy = yes, but hopefully it will result in similar 2k OTF readings.

bigC


----------



## kramer5150

KILLER....
Copper (the right grade) is a superior thermal conductor... just getting the heat out and away from the heat source, I haven't found a better material. Numbers don't lie.

I have had to resort to copper heatsinking as a last resort on many thermal designs at work (SMT ASICS), copper saved the project and was worth the added expense.

Thanks for doing this Jose.... thats a kick a$$ light too btw.


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> The Creemator MrGman tested was around 240 OTF and had a XR-E Q5 driven at 1.3A via Accor driver and 2 Surefire CR123 primaries.
> 
> Also, the vf varies from on LED to the next even if they are the same bin.










ti-force said:


> Like BigC said, there are a lot of variables. You could probably get a rough estimate if you had all of the info needed to make these calculations. Emitter bin, emitter Vf, battery Vf, battery If, driver efficiency etc....... You would need this info for a light with know OTF lumens, and for the light in question too. Or, you could just say, light A puts out X amount of lumens, so since light B has the exact same components, it should be close to the same output with all things being equal .










milkyspit said:


> The LX2 measurement of 800-850mA (not mah, which is a rating of battery capacity) was battery draw. The LX2 circuit converts excess voltage into additional current. Making a few reasonable assumptions, that would suggest the LX2 delivers something around 1.2A to its LED. Since its LED is likely an R2 bin, one would expect it to deliver additional output... in fact, if the Creemator tested had an R2 rather than Q5 bin and everything else about the light was identical, one would expect to see 255 lumens out the front.



Of course  _Chargers _charge at ma_H_.
I was suspecting that I kept staring at the graph on the XR-E data sheet and I'm like it can't be 800-850mA..!? 

Thanks guys!!



lovecpf


----------



## bigchelis

I just did the 5 meter lux on this new VARA2000; which has the dome on still and the Rebel Mag reflector.

Note: 1m lux is cal off 5m. Without the dome this VARA2000 may actually hit 100k lux at 1m.

5m=1,966

*1m Lux = 49,150*


----------



## recDNA

What would be the approximate price increase per unit to make copper heatsinks instead of aluminum for big lights like the varapower 2000?


----------



## ti-force

recDNA said:


> What would be the approximate price increase per unit to make copper heatsinks instead of aluminum for big lights like the varapower 2000?



I think BigC said the copper heatsink adds $20 to the cost per light.


----------



## recDNA

ti-force said:


> I think BigC said the copper heatsink adds $20 to the cost per light.



Wow. That IS expensive. I can see why a manufacturer wouldn't want to go there for the few customers who would know the difference.


----------



## smokelaw1

It looks pricey until you see the difference it makes!! My next varapower will have the copper, with dome on. I love the dome off for shear insane trhow, but I think I might use it even more with the dome on.


----------



## FroggyTaco

That is correct. The current surcharge is 20.00. 

However there was some commentary about unexpected difficulties machining the copper & broken cutting bits...etc 

So the price may be going up with the next round of lights. This is my pure speculation though.

All I can say is buy it if you have the chance..It's amazing.....especially since I can go from 0.1 lumen to about 2K lumens with the flick of my finger.

Also this light "needs" the copper. The SST-90 is being pushed to the max on fresh batteries. Ordinary lights that are being held to a much lower current draw don't need it.


----------



## ti-force

recDNA said:


> Wow. That IS expensive. I can see why a manufacturer wouldn't want to go there for the few customers who would know the difference.



Yeah, it's just not cost effective for most applications. I can see it on custom lights, but not mass production lights unless it's not much copper. I mean, they could do it, but more money could be made by using aluminum like they've been doing for a while now.


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

Big C, how is the turn on measurement affected so incredibly much by the copper? That is, I wouldn't think there would be so much difference in the 1 sec readings. Going off the SST-90 data sheet one could expect a textbook maximum drop in flux of about 23% going clear from 25 Celcius to 150 Celcius. You're seeing a nearly 13% drop at 1 sec. Based on temperature alone, that would correlate to a 65 C increase in 1 second . At the 4 minute mark lumens are down 25% which is literally off the chart - which demands the assumption that the copper mounted led is at a perfectly room temperature 25C (not plausible), and the emitter mounted on aluminum is at >150 Celcius. 

How is this possible? I know, numbers don't lie; I'm just confused and would love the input from those who know much more about this than I do.


----------



## ti-force

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> Big C, how is the turn on measurement affected so incredibly much by the copper? That is, I wouldn't think there would be so much difference in the 1 sec readings. Going off the SST-90 data sheet one could expect a textbook maximum drop in flux of about 23% going clear from 25 Celcius to 150 Celcius. You're seeing a nearly 13% drop at 1 sec. Based on temperature alone, that would correlate to a 65 C increase in 1 second . At the 4 minute mark lumens are down 25% which is literally off the chart - which demands the assumption that the copper mounted led is at a perfectly room temperature 25C (not plausible), and the emitter mounted on aluminum is at >150 Celcius.
> 
> How is this possible? I know, numbers don't lie; I'm just confused and would love the input from those who know much more about this than I do.



This is why I asked about whether this is the same light or not. You can see that the light with the copper heatsink is definitely not dropping in lumens nearly as much as the aluminum heatsink light, and the copper light is probably creating more heat, so the copper is definitely superior, but these are two different lights here, with quite a few variables. I might be wrong, but if BigC were to swap the copper heatsink into the aluminum heatsink light (using the same emitter that's in the aluminum heatsink light), I just don't think we would see very much of an increase in lumens at turn-on at all. It should definitely sustain it's output better, but I just don't see an increase over what it makes at turn-on.

Look at the data sheet for the SST-90. Just say both lights use an emitter that has a WN Flux bin. The minimum luminous flux at 3.15A is 1000 emitter lumens, but the maximum at 3.15A is 1200 emitter lumens. Just say the emitter in the aluminum heatsink light is on the low side of the luminous flux rating and the copper heatsink emitter is on the high side of the luminous flux rating. I say that would explain the difference in output.

Like I said, I might be wrong. Maybe MrGman can comment on this. I'm sure he knows.


----------



## bigchelis

The new Copper VARA2000 is a 2nd sample, not the same LED as the aluminium sample #1.

That said. They use the same bin SSR-90 with 65k color. 

Lamda (Kevin) did modify the way he puts the SSR-90 on the heatsink and a couple more small changes which also helped. Since we went with copper on this new sample he made a couple changes that enabled the lumens to be even higher then copper alone.

The obious is the polishing of the copper heatsink


----------



## was.lost.but.now.found

Ok, that makes sense. So you can only compare a light to itself relative to the original reading.

Aluminum drop from 1 sec to 4 min: 30.3%

Copper drop from 1 sec to 4 minutes: 18.7%

And for all you numbers geeks like me:

Obviously, the gain decreases the longer it has been on because the copper becomes saturated with heat; nevertheless the gain is very visible.


----------



## ti-force

was.lost.but.now.found said:


> Ok, that makes sense. So you can only compare a light to itself relative to the original reading.
> 
> Aluminum drop from 1 sec to 4 min: 30.3%
> 
> Copper drop from 1 sec to 4 minutes: 18.7%
> 
> And for all you numbers geeks like me:
> 
> Obviously, the gain decreases the longer it has been on because the copper becomes saturated with heat; nevertheless the gain is very visible.



Yes, I believe so. It's not just limited to variables between emitters either. The driver, switch etc... etc.... I believe the right way to do it, is to do what BigC is in the process of doing. He's building a light to test the difference between the copper and aluminum. He will use one light (same body, same switch, same emitter etc... etc....) and just swap the heatsink. I believe that will give us more accurate results.

Nice work with the numbers, although I expect the percentage of drop for the copper heatsink to be even lower when the exact same components are used. I say this because the emitter that's currently on the copper heatsink might be producing more heat than the emitter that's on the aluminum heatsink light. What I mean is, the copper heatsink may be heating up at a faster rate than the aluminum heatsink due to higher levels of heat. I don't know this as a fact though, and this is purely speculation on my part.


----------



## recDNA

Well if we really want to follow this to its logical conclusion consider that the heatsink must _transfer_ the heat _away_ from the emitter to do its job. Now it's not going to take long before the copper is hot but now it must transfer all that heat to the _aluminum _body. So if we really want fast heat transfer we should use a copper body too! But now where is lots of that heat going to go? (fins can only do so much because still air is an insulator - not a conductor) 

Your hand. So the real goal seems to be to burn your hand faster!


----------



## kramer5150

recDNA said:


> Well if we really want to follow this to its logical conclusion consider that the heatsink must _transfer_ the heat _away_ from the emitter to do its job. Now it's not going to take long before the copper is hot but now it must transfer all that heat to the _aluminum _body. So if we really want fast heat transfer we should use a copper body too! But now where is lots of that heat going to go? (fins can only do so much because still air is an insulator - not a conductor)
> 
> Your hand. So the real goal seems to be to burn your hand faster!



thats right... the copper ONLY serves as the conductor, to move and relocate the heat from the source. Its not an emissive component. For that, the host needs sufficient surface contact with the copper, and the host itself will need to possess sufficient properties as an emissive radiator to its surroundings.

I am not sure if an all copper host would be ideal, since copper itself is not a black body radiator. But I don't think anyone has yet tried, in a high-heat design... so it has yet to be dis-proven.

Better get bigchelis some oven mitts.


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force said:


> Yes, I believe so. It's not just limited to variables between emitters either. The driver, switch etc... etc.... I believe the right way to do it, is to do what BigC is in the process of doing. He's building a light to test the difference between the copper and aluminum. He will use one light (same body, same switch, same emitter etc... etc....) and just swap the heatsink. I believe that will give us more accurate results.
> 
> Nice work with the numbers, although I expect the percentage of drop for the copper heatsink to be even lower when the exact same components are used. I say this because the emitter that's currently on the copper heatsink might be producing more heat than the emitter that's on the aluminum heatsink light. What I mean is, the copper heatsink may be heating up at a faster rate than the aluminum heatsink due to higher levels of heat. I don't know this as a fact though, and this is purely speculation on my part.


 


This is my on going project. The person making me the CNC copper slug heatsinks said his drill bits or cutting *thingies* broke...dam copper

Then he replaced the bits and said he has to catch up on backed up work before helping me with my project. :shakehead

Luckily; a local CPF member and I are meeting this Sunday to discuss and look at all the parameters involved in making these heatsinks. We currently have all the materials from hosts, cell, reflectors, SSR-90's, but we just need to purchase some raw copper. Then this CPF member will cut the heatsinks at his house. 

So, for the sake of this community I took the liberty of going 2 different routes to get the same net project finished to see once and for all if copper is better then brass, but I suspect we can say its better then aluminum.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

I decided to test my stock 2D LED Mag.

Surprisingly the OTF lumens are almost identical with 2 and 3 NiMH C cells:twothumbs 

2D LED Mag________Stock Rebel____________2 NiMH C Tenergy___________ 115.4______1 sec____80_________2,000____
__________________________________*________*______________________ 96.2_______30 sec_______________________
*_________*__Stock Deep Rebel Mag Reflector___________________________ 92.3_______1 min_______________________
_____________________________________________ 800mA at tail________ 86.9_______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _______________ 85.4_______3 min________________________


----------



## kramer5150

bigchelis said:


> I decided to test my stock 2D LED Mag.
> 
> Surprisingly the OTF lumens are almost identical with 2 and 3 NiMH C cells:twothumbs
> 
> 2D LED Mag________Stock Rebel____________2 NiMH C Tenergy___________ 115.4______1 sec____80_________2,000____
> __________________________________*________*______________________ 96.2_______30 sec_______________________
> *_________*__Stock Deep Rebel Mag Reflector___________________________ 92.3_______1 min_______________________
> _____________________________________________ 800mA at tail________ 86.9_______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ _______________ 85.4_______3 min________________________



These #s match my personal observations. I am running the 2D-Rebel pill in a Minimag host. On a cold start ceiling bounce, OTF Lumens match my 110L E2L. Output drops a slight but noticeable amount once the MM bezel heats up. At ~100L its a good around the house / garage light for the $$$


----------



## recDNA

Hey BigC,

Have you ever tested the Nailbender DD 3 mode SST-50 D26 in a 6P with IMR18650? I could only find your readings with 26650 and it's just too expensive to buy a host to handle one or to mod a Maglite to do it.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> Hey BigC,
> 
> Have you ever tested the Nailbender DD 3 mode SST-50 D26 in a 6P with IMR18650? I could only find your readings with 26650 and it's just too expensive to buy a host to handle one or to mod a Maglite to do it.


 


I had one sample ( ironically my own), but the vf was super super low on that SST-50. If you recall I later returned it to Nailbender for his 2.5A driver and the lumens went up not down.

This was the D26 SST-50 DD off IMR 18650 pulling 5.68A at the tail = not bueno.


----------



## bigchelis

There is a new Modoo Tripple XP-G R5 fully regulated heading my way.:nana::nana::nana:

not mine of course, but equally excited!!!


----------



## bigchelis

Another update:

There is also a Milky Roomsweeper SST-50 direct drive on its way to me too.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I had one sample ( ironically my own), but the vf was super super low on that SST-50. If you recall I later returned it to Nailbender for his 2.5A driver and the lumens went up not down.
> 
> This was the D26 SST-50 DD off IMR 18650 pulling 5.68A at the tail = not bueno.


 
Why is it a bad thing that it was pulling over 5 amps? I would think that would make it very bright? Of course you know it wasn't as bright as it should be but I would just think that it is good for a DD SST-50 or SST-90 to pull a lot of amps.

You do have a huge edge over the rest of us because if you get an LED that doesn't seem as bright as it should be you can actually TEST it and find out!

I actually have the 2.8 amp 3 mode SST-50 and I'me thrilled with it but I have been yearning fof another NB product.

BTW, you shouldn't brag about getting another Milky masterpiece when most of us can't get to first base!


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> Why is it a bad thing that it was pulling over 5 amps? I would think that would make it very bright? Of course you know it wasn't as bright as it should be but I would just think that it is good for a DD SST-50 or SST-90 to pull a lot of amps.
> 
> You do have a huge edge over the rest of us because if you get an LED that doesn't seem as bright as it should be you can actually TEST it and find out!
> 
> I actually have the 2.8 amp 3 mode SST-50 and I'me thrilled with it but I have been yearning fof another NB product.
> 
> BTW, you shouldn't brag about getting another Milky masterpiece when most of us can't get to first base!


 

5.68A on the SST-50 in a Mag D hosts with copper slug = might be enough to dissipate heat and 1000 plus lumens are possible and were with the Ma_Sha1 2C SST-50 I tested.

5.68A = P60 drop-in was too much heat for that little module. 


I think somebody should send me their SST-50 2.8A regulated NB drop-in to compare it against the already tested 2.5A model I tested.

MILKY made me wait too, but finally the wait is over

bigC


----------



## sfca

bigchelis said:


> I think somebody should send me their SST-50 2.8A regulated NB drop-in to compare it against the already tested 2.5A model I tested.



Sigh... Not here yet. Big things happening too on the life front.

Anybody else got one to send in? Have 2 to test is much better then just 1


----------



## recDNA

sfca said:


> Sigh... Not here yet. Big things happening too on the life front.
> 
> Anybody else got one to send in? Have 2 to test is much better then just 1


 
Sorry but I use mine every day.


----------



## bigchelis

Hello all,

I got the Moddoo Tripple in warm 4500k color. This one is fully regulated and a work of art.






















*Surefire C2 UCL*____*Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5*____*2 IMR 18650*________ 826.2 ______ 1 sec_________________________
____________________4500 WARM/Regulated________________________ 801.5_______30 sec______________________
____________________________1.32A at the tail_____________________________________ 793.1_______1 min______________________
______________________Moddoo Zero resistance Mod_________________________________783.1_______2 min_______________________
_______________________________________________________________________________ 776.9_______3 min_______________________


----------



## daimleramg

Moddoo's Triple XPG R5 direct drive stayed at a constant 1050 lumens for 3 mins with AW's 18650 LiCo cell. Wondering why this version with a driver doesnt have flat regulation within the first 3 mins.


----------



## don.gwapo

bigchelis said:


> *Surefire C2 UCL*____*Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5*____*2 IMR 18650*________ 826.2 ______ 1 sec_________________________
> ____________________4500 WARM/Regulated________________________ 801.5_______30 sec______________________
> ____________________________1.32A at the tail_____________________________________ 793.1_______1 min______________________
> ______________________Moddoo Zero resistance Mod_________________________________783.1_______2 min_______________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________ 776.9_______3 min_______________________


 
This drop-in really impresses me from the V1 to V3. But unluckily missed to get one. Wonder if "kerberos0023" custom triple can match the lumen output of the direct drive and regulated triple of moddoo's. Wish someone will send you kerberos version for you to test and compare it to the moddoo.


----------



## Armed_Forces

daimleramg said:


> Moddoo's Triple XPG R5 direct drive stayed at a constant 1050 lumens for 3 mins with AW's 18650 LiCo cell. Wondering why this version with a driver doesnt have flat regulation within the first 3 mins.




The direct drive triple has the superior thermal path because it omitted the MCPCB. In order to get a constant/regulated light output you have to add the requisite circuitry/components and for that you need a board, thus bringing back the MCPCB. Despite this added thermal resistance the lumen drop is lower than any other P-60 module I've ever seen at this wattage. Very impressive to say the least!


----------



## csshih

great work you've been doing bigC!!! :twothumbs


----------



## kramer5150

bigchelis said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I got the Moddoo Tripple in warm 4500k color. This one is fully regulated and a work of art.
> 
> 
> *Surefire C2 UCL*____*Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5*____*2 IMR 18650*________ 826.2 ______ 1 sec_________________________
> ____________________4500 WARM/Regulated________________________ 801.5_______30 sec______________________
> ____________________________1.32A at the tail_____________________________________ 793.1_______1 min______________________
> ______________________Moddoo Zero resistance Mod_________________________________783.1_______2 min_______________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________ 776.9_______3 min_______________________





:twothumbs

800Lu / 11Watts = *72 Lumens per Watt* consumed

Pretty good efficiency overall:thumbsup:

Another Moddoo winner


----------



## bigchelis

kramer5150 said:


> :twothumbs
> 
> 800Lu / 11Watts = *72 Lumens per Watt* consumed
> 
> Pretty good efficiency overall:thumbsup:
> 
> Another Moddoo winner


 

And thats with the warm model, which I must admit looks alot brighter than a cool WildCat XP-G tripple.

The cool XP-G R5 from moddoo should be at least 100 more OTF lumens, which would put it at 81 lumens per watt or better:thumbsup:


----------



## bigchelis

I have tested Kramer5150's A2 RED in the past and it was fully regulated with 2 CR123 primaries or rechargeables. I then got a White LED version, but when I put some rechargeables the tint turns angry blue.

For now: I was able to test it with primary CR123's at 3.10V each.

Kramer5150; mine is brighter:touche:



Surefire A2 RED______________Stock________2 CR123 Thrustfires_________90.8______1 sec__________________________
____________________________________________*8.4V Input*__________ 87.7______30 sec_________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 86.2______1 min_________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 85.4______2 min_________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 85.4______3 min_________________________
Surefire A2 White LED's________Stock________2 CR123 Primaries_________98.5______1 sec__________________________
____________________________________________6*V Input__*__________ 95.4______30 sec_________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 95.4______1 min_________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 93.8______2 min_________________________
__________________________________________________ ______________ 93.1______3 min_________________________


----------



## Moddoo

bigchelis said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I got the Moddoo Tripple in warm 4500k color. This one is fully regulated and a work of art.
> 
> 
> *Surefire C2 UCL*____*Moddoo Tripple XP-G R5*____*2 IMR 18650*________ 826.2 ______ 1 sec_________________________
> ____________________4500 WARM/Regulated________________________ 801.5_______30 sec______________________
> ____________________________1.32A at the tail_____________________________________ 793.1_______1 min______________________
> ______________________Moddoo Zero resistance Mod_________________________________783.1_______2 min_______________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________ 776.9_______3 min_______________________



Thanks guys for all of the comments.

What I really like about this test, is that I now have a solid "calibration number" to base my own sphere testing on.

I should be able to rely on my numbers within a few percent now.

Really nice to see that it only drops about 6% while it warms up. It will drop very little after that. Continuous use of this model is possible while walking outdoors.(depending on ambient temp and wind, etc) The host temp stabilizes after a few minutes.


----------



## bigchelis

The Milky E1e RoomSweeper build with a SST-50 and a huge copper heatsink is bright. Over 500 OTF even after 3 minutes


----------



## recDNA

Must get a little toasty in your hand.


----------



## milkyspit

recDNA said:


> Must get a little toasty in your hand.




BC will have to comment on that... his hands after all! ...but when testing the light, I was surprised that it didn't get hotter, faster. Eventually it will of course get hot, but the entire light tends to warm at more-or-less the same time rather than having all the heat concentrate in the head alone. I believe the excellent heatsinking in this particular build is responsible for that. I personally found the light very comfortable after even a few minutes of continuous run (but maybe I'm a freak) and given the light's design as an instrument for overwhelming light delivered in short intervals, it seems to do nicely for the intended purpose. :naughty:


----------



## recDNA

milkyspit said:


> BC will have to comment on that... his hands after all! ...but when testing the light, I was surprised that it didn't get hotter, faster. Eventually it will of course get hot, but the entire light tends to warm at more-or-less the same time rather than having all the heat concentrate in the head alone. I believe the excellent heatsinking in this particular build is responsible for that. I personally found the light very comfortable after even a few minutes of continuous run (but maybe I'm a freak) and given the light's design as an instrument for overwhelming light delivered in short intervals, it seems to do nicely for the intended purpose. :naughty:


 
Single mode?


----------



## milkyspit

recDNA said:


> Single mode?




Yes... again, for the intended application single light is the most appropriate design.

That said, the light could go dual brightness via dual stage tailswitch... that's always a possibility.


----------



## recDNA

Well it's definitely a "hot" little flashlight. Great work as usual.

And if you ever get the urge to build one of these again I have an LX2 waiting!


----------



## kramer5150

bigchelis said:


> I have tested Kramer5150's A2 RED in the past and it was fully regulated with 2 CR123 primaries or rechargeables. I then got a White LED version, but when I put some rechargeables the tint turns angry blue.
> 
> For now: I was able to test it with primary CR123's at 3.10V each.
> 
> Kramer5150; mine is brighter:touche:
> 
> 
> 
> Surefire A2 RED______________Stock________2 CR123 Thrustfires_________90.8______1 sec__________________________
> ____________________________________________*8.4V Input*__________ 87.7______30 sec_________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 86.2______1 min_________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 85.4______2 min_________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 85.4______3 min_________________________
> Surefire A2 White LED's________Stock________2 CR123 Primaries_________98.5______1 sec__________________________
> ____________________________________________6*V Input__*__________ 95.4______30 sec_________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 95.4______1 min_________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 93.8______2 min_________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 93.1______3 min_________________________




Aah yes... But Sir lord of the sphere can yours do.... THIS:devil:...?






R2D2 likes night vision 





Yeah the RCR123 cells do over-drive the LEDs, but yours is the first case I have read of them severely over-driving them:thinking:. Many members use their A2s like me with RCR123 cells, with no ill-effects.

I think there is a way to change SMT resistors and mod the LED ring to drive the Nichias at a lower current. But, I think primaries work best in the A2 for the added run time (3 times as long as RCR123).

I wonder if using cheaper non-IMR cells like mine will help?

It would be interesting to see if our results will be the same swapping our lamps... I'm willing to bet its your white LEDs giving you a ~10L boost.


----------



## bigchelis

Here is what the Milky SST-50 Copper RoomSweeper does:


Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________1 IMR 16340__________ 722.3______1 sec________________________
*Milky RoomSweeper*______________________________________________ 526.9______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 513.1______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________3.5A at tail___________ 511.5______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 504.6______3 min________________________
Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________ 2 NiZn AA __________ 584.6______1 sec________________________
*Milky RoomSweeper*______________________________________________ 523.8______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 481.5______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________1.8A at tail___________ 466.2______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 468.5______3 min________________________



Please note: The UBH- E series body allows me to use 2 AA cells with E-head/tail. When I put the M61 and E1b tailcap I get nearly 100% identical OTF vs. in an 6P with zero tolerance tailcap.

But

With this SST-50 the same E1b tailcap takes away almost 200 OTF lumens vs. the twistie. I had noticed this before when testing my M30 that pulls 1.8A and a different E-series clicky too. It seems these twisties are better at higher current. I bet the McClicky E-series mods will be even better too. Anybody want to donate one to find out??? PM me. please!!


----------



## Bullzeyebill

kramer5150 said:


> Yeah the RCR123 cells do over-drive the LEDs, but yours is the first case I have read of them severely over-driving them:thinking:. Many members use their A2s like me with RCR123 cells, with no ill-effects.
> 
> I think there is a way to change SMT resistors and mod the LED ring to drive the Nichias at a lower current. But, I think primaries work best in the A2 for the added run time (3 times as long as RCR123).
> 
> I wonder if using cheaper non-IMR cells like mine will help?
> 
> It would be interesting to see if our results will be the same swapping our lamps... I'm willing to bet its your white LEDs giving you a ~10L boost.



The red LEDs each have a 100ohm resistor, more than enough to protect the LEDs with the over current of the RCR's. They do end up brighter than on two CR123's, but I think that they handle the over voltage better than the white's which have fairly low resistors; can't remember the ohm rating. The whites certainly add the 10 lumens. 

During the lightmeter benchmark passaround years ago, one of the passaround lights was McGizmo's A2 with the LED ring removed, and we tested the lights for lux with our various lightmeters. Later all the the lights were tested in an IS by a reputed lab, and the A2, at the time tested at 68 lumens without the LED ring. Batteries were all primary cells. Re the A2, a fresh bulb might have tested higher.

Bill

correction made re lumen output of A2


----------



## milkyspit

bigchelis said:


> ...It seems these twisties are better at higher current. I bet the McClicky E-series mods will be even better too.[/SIZE]




BC, couple thoughts. First, the above statement is absolutely true... the culprit is resistance. In electronics, the impact that resistance plays increases geometrically with current... the amount of input power in watts that ends up lost, is equal to I^2R, which in English reads, "current (in amps) squared, times resistance (in ohms)." So as current increases, the losses increase dramatically.

One thing you might try in your E1B tail: get a piece of heavy copper braid as uses in desoldering tape, tuck one end under the bottom of the tailspring, and loop the other end over the top of the tailspring... make sure the top will get pinned directly under the cells. See if that helps. The braid will drastically increase the current-carrying capacity of the spring (reducing its resistance) and just might show some benefit. Of course, the clicky core itself will remain as a source of potentially high resistance, but at least you'll eliminate one of the sources that way. It would be an interesting test to see the difference that copper braid might make.

BTW, look to the extreme hotwire crowd for inspiration here as they've been addressing this sort of issue for years.

As for your results, I never would have imagined your Room Sweeper would go over 700 lumens, even momentarily, on an IMR16340. That warms the heart. (No pun intended!) 

My guess would be that most of the dropoff you're seeing in the tests is a result of the cells themselves being unable to keep up for long... and the tailswitch resistance doesn't help, either.


----------



## kramer5150

bigchelis said:


> Here is what the Milky SST-50 Copper RoomSweeper does:
> 
> 
> Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________1 IMR 16340__________ 722.3______1 sec________________________
> *Milky RoomSweeper*______________________________________________ 526.9______30 sec________________________
> ________________________________________________________________ 513.1______1 min_________________________
> ___________________________________________3.5A at tail___________ 511.5______2 min________________________
> ________________________________________________________________ 504.6______3 min________________________
> Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________ 2 NiZn AA __________ 584.6______1 sec________________________
> *Milky RoomSweeper*______________________________________________ 523.8______30 sec________________________
> ________________________________________________________________ 481.5______1 min_________________________
> ___________________________________________1.8A at tail___________ 466.2______2 min________________________
> ________________________________________________________________ 468.5______3 min________________________



Number crunching some efficiencies out of these measurements:

1xIMR16340 at 2 minutes, 511Lu:
3.5A x 4.2V = 14.7 Watts
This yields *34.7 Lumens / Watt*

2xAA at 2 minutes, 466Lu:
1.8A x 3.2V = 5.7 Watts
This yields *81.7 Lumens / Watt*

Based on Lumens/Watt, the efficiency its more than double using the 2AA setup.

Why is there such a HUGE difference? I expect thermal losses to play a factor... but more than double? Something doesn't add up...?
Curious... can an IMR16340 withstand a 3.5A load and survive with any kind of life expectancy at that rate?

thanks!! Great work guys, always learning something new on CPF.


----------



## Yoda4561

Here's my guess, it's the current capability of the IMR battery hurting more than helping. It's able to push a huge amount of current, thus generating more waste energy as heat, both at the tailcap and at the LED, since the heatsinking can't keep up with that excess heat generation for more than a second or so, you see that really bad looking Lumens/watt figure at similar output levels.

edit: Regarding current draw, just went to look it up. I know it was high but couldn't remember the exact figure. I've seen 8c thrown around, so 4.4 amps is the max operating current these can take. 3.6 is fairly high, so the cycle life probably won't be great, but I'd wager in excess of 100 charges.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

kramer5150 said:


> Number crunching some efficiencies out of these measurements:
> 
> 1xIMR16340 at 2 minutes, 511Lu:
> 3.5A x 4.2V = 14.7 Watts
> This yields *34.7 Lumens / Watt*
> 
> 2xAA at 2 minutes, 466Lu:
> 1.8A x 3.2V = 5.7 Watts
> This yields *81.7 Lumens / Watt*
> 
> Based on Lumens/Watt, the efficiency its more than double using the 2AA setup.
> 
> Why is there such a HUGE difference? I expect thermal losses to play a factor... but more than double? Something doesn't add up...?
> Curious... can an IMR16340 withstand a 3.5A load and survive with any kind of life expectancy at that rate?
> 
> thanks!! Great work guys, always learning something new on CPF.



Could be that as heat drops power, the current also drops, using the IMR. No such issue with the zn AA's that can not deliver that kind of initial current to the LED. Thinking out loud here.:thinking:

Bill


----------



## milkyspit

Yoda4561 said:


> Here's my guess, it's the current capability of the IMR battery hurting more than helping. It's able to push a huge amount of current, thus generating more waste energy as heat, both at the tailcap and at the LED, since the heatsinking can't keep up with that excess heat generation for more than a second or so, you see that really bad looking Lumens/watt figure at similar output levels.
> 
> edit: Regarding current draw, just went to look it up. I know it was high but couldn't remember the exact figure. I've seen 8c thrown around, so 4.4 amps is the max operating current these can take. 3.6 is fairly high, so the cycle life probably won't be great, but I'd wager in excess of 100 charges.




I'd agree with just about all of that, with the exception of the head end heatsinking not keeping up. Look at the IMR readings AFTER that initial reading... output remains higher than in the AA case, and more importantly, hardly budges at all over the entire three minutes.

I think the IMR cell is simply starting at an insane rate of current draw but very quickly (within seconds) sags badly... and it's a glass half full vs. half empty kind of thing in that you could conclude the IMR cell can't maintain its current flow adequately well, or you could conclude that even with the dropoff, it still manages to do markedly better than the AA cells through the entire test, and does so in a much smaller form factor. Both are true! Just depends how you want to look at it.

Also, the lumens per watt calculations aren't quite right as I suspect neither cell holds those voltages under load... I know for sure the IMR is nowhere near 4.2V under load... and the current draw is continually decreasing as well, especially in initial seconds of the run.


----------



## Yoda4561

That's something I kind of glossed over while thinking about it, tests on direct drive SST-50's have shown hundreds of lumens can potentially be lost by using a stock tailcap at high currents (due to higher resistance as the tailcap heats up??) . For some reason I keep associating the roomsweeper with an ssc P7, I bet low resistance tailcap mods will provide big benefits with that IMR battery.


----------



## HeyGuysWatchThis

Forgive me if I missed it, but has the Quark Mini 123 with the original neutral white emitter (from December) been tested? I'm curious what mine puts out compared to the regular ones.


----------



## bigchelis

HeyGuysWatchThis said:


> Forgive me if I missed it, but has the Quark Mini 123 with the original neutral white emitter (from December) been tested? I'm curious what mine puts out compared to the regular ones.


 

I have it, but I need to update my list. The thruth is there are at least 20~40 lights I still need to put on the lists. This is just time consuming.


The good news is that I did test it and its just a little bit less.

For now the super duper bright and exotic lights get 1st priority


Lucky for you the answer is here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/278032


----------



## bigchelis

Here is the Milky Roomsweeper with the already published OTF numbers when I used the stock clickie tailcap. Now; I re-tested with a E-series twistie.


Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________1 IMR 16340__________ 722.3______1 sec________________________
*Milky RoomSweeper*______________________________________________ 526.9______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 513.1______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________3.5A at tail___________ 511.5______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 504.6______3 min________________________
Surefire E1e___________SST-50 DD______________1 IMR 16340__________ 784.6______1 sec________________________
*Milky RoomSweeper*_______________________________________________538.5______30 sec________________________
__________________E-series Twiste__________________________________526.2______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________3.5A at tail____________ 517.7______2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 507.7______3 min________________________


----------



## hoongern

kramer5150 said:


> Number crunching some efficiencies out of these measurements:
> 
> 1xIMR16340 at 2 minutes, 511Lu:
> 3.5A x 4.2V = 14.7 Watts
> This yields *34.7 Lumens / Watt*
> 
> 2xAA at 2 minutes, 466Lu:
> 1.8A x 3.2V = 5.7 Watts
> This yields *81.7 Lumens / Watt*
> 
> Based on Lumens/Watt, the efficiency its more than double using the 2AA setup.
> 
> Why is there such a HUGE difference? I expect thermal losses to play a factor... but more than double? Something doesn't add up...?
> Curious... can an IMR16340 withstand a 3.5A load and survive with any kind of life expectancy at that rate?
> 
> thanks!! Great work guys, always learning something new on CPF.



For the IMR16340, at 3.5A (6C discharge), they aren't 4.2V, but actually closer to 3.6V (I'm trying to find AW's discharge graph, but his thread seems to have disappeared).

However, I'm a bit mystified by the current readings from the 2xAA. If you look at the SST-50 specs, the highest bin is rated at 425lm @ 1.75A, with Vf ~ 3.2V. (which is about what you'd get with 2xAA @ 1.8A)

To produce 585 LED lumens (not even talking about OTF here), you'd need 2.4Amps to the LED.

On the other hand, at 3.5Amps (from the IMR16340), you get 808 LED lumens according to the SST-50 datasheet, which seems about correct.


----------



## bigchelis

hoongern said:


> For the IMR16340, at 3.5A (6C discharge), they aren't 4.2V, but actually closer to 3.6V (I'm trying to find AW's discharge graph, but his thread seems to have disappeared).
> 
> However, I'm a bit mystified by the current readings from the 2xAA. If you look at the SST-50 specs, the highest bin is rated at 425lm @ 1.75A, with Vf ~ 3.2V. (which is about what you'd get with 2xAA @ 1.8A)
> 
> To produce 585 LED lumens (not even talking about OTF here), you'd need 2.4Amps to the LED.
> 
> On the other hand, at 3.5Amps (from the IMR16340), you get 808 LED lumens according to the SST-50 datasheet, which seems about correct.


 


The 2 AA NiZn cells are 3.6V input ( no load) 

3.8V * 1.8A = 6.84 WATTS ( no load )

It seems that underdriven these high power emitters run more efficient. AT under 7 wats of power this AA NiZn combo nets 500ish OTF overall and I like those numbers. 

The Malkoff Wildcat Tripple at 8~9watts = 750~800 OTF when those XP-G's are underdriven at 900mA each.


This versatility is why I like direct drive builds!!!!


----------



## hoongern

bigchelis said:


> The 2 AA NiZn cells are 3.6V input ( no load)
> 
> 3.8V * 1.8A = 6.84 WATTS ( no load )
> 
> It seems that underdriven these high power emitters run more efficient. AT under 7 wats of power this AA NiZn combo nets 500ish OTF overall and I like those numbers.
> 
> The Malkoff Wildcat Tripple at 8~9watts = 750~800 OTF when those XP-G's are underdriven at 900mA each.
> 
> 
> This versatility is why I like direct drive builds!!!!



Whoops, I was a bit mistaken - I was looking at the wrong bin. The specifications of the SST-50 show the following:

WJ bin Flux @ 1.75 A : 500-600 LED lumens

I guess that if the SST-50 in that build is a top-bin one, then 500 OTF would be possible w/ 1.8A.

WJ bin Flux @ 3.5A: 190%, i.e. 950 -1150 LED lumens

My guess is that the heat kills the OTF lumens with the IMR cell... The flux ratings are at 25 degrees celcius.

(Also, for reference, Ni-Zns run about 1.7V each at 1.5Amp discharge. At 1.8Amps, it'll probably be ~ 1.6V each, just a guess. Looks like you have a low Vf emitter)


----------



## elho

daimleramg said:


> Wondering why this version with a driver doesnt have flat regulation within the first 3 mins.


Because the first minutes is all about heat. If you took measurements at e.g. 10 and 20 minutes, you would see the difference for sure.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> The 2 AA NiZn cells are 3.6V input ( no load)
> 
> 3.8V * 1.8A = 6.84 WATTS ( no load )
> 
> It seems that underdriven these high power emitters run more efficient. AT under 7 wats of power this AA NiZn combo nets 500ish OTF overall and I like those numbers.
> 
> The Malkoff Wildcat Tripple at 8~9watts = 750~800 OTF when those XP-G's are underdriven at 900mA each.
> 
> 
> This versatility is why I like direct drive builds!!!!


 
I agree. When the goal is blow em away output DD is best.


----------



## milkyspit

hoongern said:


> I guess that if the SST-50 in that build is a top-bin one, then 500 OTF would be possible w/ 1.8A.



I can assure you that it is! That is, unless my supplier flat-out lied to me, which is highly unlikely.

At 3.5A on the SST-50 the scaling factor appears to be roughly 1.8 (=180%). From my experiences with SST-50 so far, most WJ bin tend to sit toward the low end of the range for brightness... so at 3.5A, I would expect to see 500 x 1.8 = 900 lumens at the emitter. That seems entirely plausible given what BC was observing.

At 1.8A, the scaling factor is probably closer to 1.10. Assuming bottom-of-bin as above, that suggests 550 lumens from the emitter.

It's also likely the meter itself introduced some added resistance in the circuit, which means the actual current draw in both cases was probably a bit higher than measured... not dramatically higher, but a little. So both lumen ratings above are probably a bit low. In the case of 3.5A, the heat probably did de-rate the output... again, not dramatically, but a little.



hoongern said:


> My guess is that the heat kills the OTF lumens with the IMR cell... The flux ratings are at 25 degrees celcius.



I suspect at 3.5A that heat does play a role, but only minor... and whatever role it plays exists from the very beginning. The big drop from 1s to 30s is a lot simpler to explain than that: the IMR cell cannot sustain that sort of current draw for more than a few seconds before the voltage under load sags enough to bring down the current, and hence the output. That's supported by the discharge curve of pretty much any lithium-chemistry cell: in the first instants of the run, the cell's voltage drops my roughly 10% before settling into a very flat discharge for most of the remaining runtime. That's exactly what we see here.



hoongern said:


> (Also, for reference, Ni-Zns run about 1.7V each at 1.5Amp discharge. At 1.8Amps, it'll probably be ~ 1.6V each, just a guess. Looks like you have a low Vf emitter)



Thanks for the link to the graph! That's handy. :thumbsup:

The graph seems to show 1.6V for most of the cell's runtime at 1.5A discharge. I'd respectfully suggest that 1.8A pulls things down closer to 1.5V, although you're right, in the first seconds of the run your voltage guesstimates are probably about right.

Yes, the emitter has a particularly low Vf. That's no accident! With this Room Sweeper Special Reserve, as with just about all the builds in the Milky Labs, I hand-selected the emitter for best match to the light and its intended circuit (in this case direct drive) and power source. I design lights in terms of the overall system rather than a collection of individual components. Wrote a very long-winded post about the design methodology years ago when I introduced the Project-M family.

Most important to me in this case: hope BigChelis likes his Room Sweeper!


----------



## derpilgerer

nice work at all.

Can't wait for the Kerberos triple measurement.


----------



## bigchelis

In regards the the Milky RoomSweeper there is a big problem I have:

My other half saw it Now; she said I better leave it with her. She 1st confiscated my M30 w/VME twistie keychain and now she is begging for this roomsweeper. 

I guess another roomsweeper might be needed for me nowlovecpf


----------



## recDNA

Are you going to test a production Maelstron G5? There were claims of additional output in the production model.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> Are you going to test a production Maelstron G5? There were claims of additional output in the production model.


 

I think Ti-Force did a review on it and he has a IS Sphere that MrGman helped him calibrate. Check the reviews section I am sure its there with all the OTF numbers too.:thumbsup:


----------



## recDNA

His are prototype model readings as are those in the other review there.


----------



## bigchelis

Somebody sent me the Kerberos0023 Tripple XP-G R5 P60 drop-in to test out. The unit I just tested is a cool tint with 3 modes. I actually purchased the warm model and will test it when I get it.

I added some copper tape for a snug fit and while I do have the Moddo Zero tolerance tailcap mod it will not work on this L2 hosts I suspect another 50 lumens or more is possible if I could use his zero tolerance mod. I didn't apply AS5 eighter because I didn't get permission.

Here is the thread on these:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/277951

It does 221 OTF lumens on Med ~ steady
It does 32 OTF lumens on Low ~ steady

I tested a UCL difused lens from flashlightens.com on High, med, low, and on high I loose about 30 lumens, but on med and low its practically the same OTF lumens














Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple______1 IMR 18650________ 723.8 _______1 sec________________________
Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 cool 3mode_______________________ 641.5 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*____________*________________2.8A at tail_______________ 629.2 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________618.5 _______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________613.8_______ 3 min________________________
Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple______1 AW 2600mAh______682.3 _______1 sec________________________
Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 cool 3mode_______________________ 622.3 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*____________*________________________________________ 613.8 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*________________2.7a at tail_____________606.2 _______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________597.7_______ 3 min________________________


----------



## derpilgerer

> I do have the Moddo Zero tolerance tailcap mod it will not work on this L2 hosts



Did u use a L2P or L2 ?

But the Tailcap fits? Only the Twisty don't work?

I planned a upgrade for my L2P with the moddoo twisty


----------



## bigchelis

derpilgerer said:


> Did u use a L2P or L2 ?
> 
> But the Tailcap fits? Only the Twisty don't work?
> 
> I planned a upgrade for my L2P with the moddoo twisty


 

I used a L2. 

I do want to get a HA Type III Natural L2P, but I dont have it yet.


----------



## don.gwapo

bigchelis said:


> Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple______1 IMR 18650________ 723.8 _______1 sec________________________
> Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 cool 3mode_______________________ 641.5 _______30 sec_______________________
> ______________*________*__*____________*________________2.8A at tail_______________ 629.2 _______1 min________________________
> __________________________*_____________*______________________________________618.5 _______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ _____________________________613.8_______ 3 min________________________
> Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple______1 AW 2600mAh______682.3 _______1 sec________________________
> Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 cool 3mode_______________________ 622.3 _______30 sec_______________________
> ______________*________*__*____________*________________________________________ 613.8 _______1 min________________________
> __________________________*_____________*________________2.7a at tail_____________606.2 _______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ _____________________________597.7_______ 3 min________________________


 
I've been planning on getting this drop-in but after I saw the OTF I was disappointed. I will now get the Nailbender's sst-90 DD which is cheaper and just the same OTF as kerberos version.


----------



## hoongern

milkyspit said:


> I can assure you that it is! That is, unless my supplier flat-out lied to me, which is highly unlikely.
> 
> At 3.5A on the SST-50 the scaling factor appears to be roughly 1.8 (=180%). From my experiences with SST-50 so far, most WJ bin tend to sit toward the low end of the range for brightness... so at 3.5A, I would expect to see 500 x 1.8 = 900 lumens at the emitter. That seems entirely plausible given what BC was observing.
> 
> At 1.8A, the scaling factor is probably closer to 1.10. Assuming bottom-of-bin as above, that suggests 550 lumens from the emitter.
> 
> It's also likely the meter itself introduced some added resistance in the circuit, which means the actual current draw in both cases was probably a bit higher than measured... not dramatically higher, but a little. So both lumen ratings above are probably a bit low. In the case of 3.5A, the heat probably did de-rate the output... again, not dramatically, but a little.
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect at 3.5A that heat does play a role, but only minor... and whatever role it plays exists from the very beginning. The big drop from 1s to 30s is a lot simpler to explain than that: the IMR cell cannot sustain that sort of current draw for more than a few seconds before the voltage under load sags enough to bring down the current, and hence the output. That's supported by the discharge curve of pretty much any lithium-chemistry cell: in the first instants of the run, the cell's voltage drops my roughly 10% before settling into a very flat discharge for most of the remaining runtime. That's exactly what we see here.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the link to the graph! That's handy. :thumbsup:
> 
> The graph seems to show 1.6V for most of the cell's runtime at 1.5A discharge. I'd respectfully suggest that 1.8A pulls things down closer to 1.5V, although you're right, in the first seconds of the run your voltage guesstimates are probably about right.
> 
> Yes, the emitter has a particularly low Vf. That's no accident! With this Room Sweeper Special Reserve, as with just about all the builds in the Milky Labs, I hand-selected the emitter for best match to the light and its intended circuit (in this case direct drive) and power source. I design lights in terms of the overall system rather than a collection of individual components. Wrote a very long-winded post about the design methodology years ago when I introduced the Project-M family.
> 
> Most important to me in this case: hope BigChelis likes his Room Sweeper!



Thanks for all the clarification! Yeah, I guess that the meter may have put in some resistance as well. I would still like to find out at what point the current readings were taken. Of course, it would be awesome if we had current readings for 1sec/30sec/1/2/3min as well


----------



## kramer5150

kramer5150 said:


> These #s match my personal observations. I am running the 2D-Rebel pill in a Minimag host. On a cold start ceiling bounce, OTF Lumens match my 110L E2L. Output drops a slight but noticeable amount once the MM bezel heats up. At ~100L its a good around the house / garage light for the $$$




After a brief PM exchange with another member... I was reminded that my minimag reflector is not stock. I used a knife & dremel to remove ~1mm off the base of the reflector. I did it to try and make the light turn ON with a little less bezel twist rotation. It has the added benefit of seating the LED deeper into the reflector dish. I do not know if it improves the optical efficiency... but its definitely not stock, and its probably worth noting. I just re-did my ceiling bounce comparison, and with 2 freshly charged energizer 2450 cells I get nearly the same Lumen output as my E2L. Maybe the E2L is _very slightly _brighter, but not by much.

Further comparing it against my ITP A3-EOS which did 78L in the sphere, there is no contest, the MM is considerably and noticeably brighter than 78L.

So between these 2 references, the MM is definitely closer to 110L than 78L. Hence my ~100L estimation.


----------



## bullettproof

That tripple didnt do any better then a linger.


----------



## recDNA

That's why I'm less enamored of regulation than most users here. A lot more output from unregulated and easier to tell when they need batteries.


----------



## psychbeat

yeah I was hoping with that heatsink the KERB module
would've done better...

Im gonna stick with my warm Linger for a while then....

unless that VI quad ever happens...


nice to be saving the $$$

seems like a Q mini 123 and bored C2 with a Linger has
most of my needs met right now.


----------



## Noctis

psychbeat said:


> yeah I was hoping with that heatsink the KERB module
> would've done better...


One member mentioned that his soldering was sloppy and weak. I assume that if the rest of the module had the same lack of attention to detail, that might explain the rapid drop in output despite the heatsinking. If the emitters weren't properly attached with a high quality thermal epoxy, the heatsink may as well be a hollow brass pill.



> Im gonna stick with my warm Linger for a while then....
> 
> unless that VI quad ever happens...


Given the lack of posting activity by VanIsleDSM, that doesn't seem likely. I suspect there might be some serious real life issues there. His profile seems to suggest that he might view the forums every 2 weeks, so I would think the worst case scenario is out of the question:huh:.


----------



## rockledlight

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

With fully charged cells, I am measuring about 4.4 volts at the tail. Did you not charge your cells fully? 
Also, is the 3853L really brighter than the 3854L? That doesn't really make sense, I would think it would be the other way around. 
These are OTF lumens, right? What reflectors were you using for the maglite mods?


----------



## psychbeat

I was out of the country n offline for a couple weeks and
thought - oh man I wonder where I am on the VI DSM module
list...

ohh well- sometimes its nice to know what you've got is pretty
close to the top of the heap and that you can hold off for a couple 
of more months til something comes out that justifies an 
upgrade...

that said, I wouldnt mind a DD moddoo module:sick2: or a varapower
but those are a bit large for me (i use my lights on my bike mostly
or backpacking)

maybe AW will come out with a SUPER 18650 or something else
cool will happen soon like S2 XPGs or R5 XREs or the XM.

til then Ima chill for a min.


and back on topic-
someone should send in a Magicshine headlamp
to test. theyre pretty dang bright


----------



## bigchelis

Hi folks,

So FlashCrazy the US delear for Dereelight and others sent me a Smooth DBS reflector and the SST-50 pill to test out.
http://flashlightconnection.com/Dereelight-Flashlights-c1/

1st I tested the smooth reflector in my DBS and found the lux more then doubled Its a huge difference too. It gets closer to Tiablo A10 status


*Now the XR-E R2 with DBS and smooth reflector does the same lumens, but the lux at 1 meter is 35,625!!*:thumbsup:

Dereelight DBS_____Dereelight XR-E R2_______ 2 AW 2600mAh _________ 225.4 ______ 1 sec_______529______13,225___
__________________________________________________ _____________ 213.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*1.2A Single Mode* ______________________________________ 209.2_______1 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________204.6_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________202.3_______3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____Dereelight XR-E R2_______ 2 AW 2600mAh _________ 140.8 ______ 1 sec______2,500_____62,500___
__________________________________________________ _____________ 137.7_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*1.2A Single Mode* ___________*Aspherical Installed*__________ 135.4_______1 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________133.8_______2 min________________________
________________________*___________*___________________________________________133.1_______3 min________________________


----------



## bigchelis

Here I tested the WARM KemBeros XP-G R4 3 mode WARM drop-in!!

Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple______1 IMR 18650________ 723.8 _______1 sec________________________
Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 cool 3mode_______________________ 641.5 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*____________*________________2.8A at tail_______________ 629.2 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*______________________________________618.5 _______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________613.8_______ 3 min________________________
Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple______1 AW 2600mAh______682.3 _______1 sec________________________
Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 cool 3mode_______________________ 622.3 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*____________*________________________________________ 613.8 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*________________2.7a at tail_____________606.2 _______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________597.7_______ 3 min________________________
Solarforce L2 UCL_____Kerberesos0023 Tripple_______1 IMR 18650_______680.8 _______1 sec________________________
Stock clicky________tripple XP-G R5 warm 3mode______________________580.8 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*____________*________________________________________ 548.5 _______1 min________________________
__________________________*_____________*________________2.8a at tail_____________523.8 _______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________523.2_______ 3 min________________________


----------



## ElectronGuru

Moddoo just hit some screaming numbers from a Peak Logan xpg/8 driven by an IMR. I'll see if I can arrange a test unit for the full eval.


----------



## Noctis

ElectronGuru said:


> Moddoo just hit some screaming numbers from a Peak Logan xpg/8 driven by an IMR. I'll see if I can arrange a test unit for the full eval.


I hope the emitter itself wasn't screaming.


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> sent me a Smooth DBS reflector and the SST-50 pill to test out.
> [...]
> 
> 1st I tested the smooth reflector in my DBS and found the lux more then doubled


I am slightly confused, so was that a smooth XR-E reflector and a SST-50 pill that have nothing to do with each other or did you use the smooth SST-50 reflector with your XR-E pill, which would make the result even more suprising? :thinking:


----------



## bigchelis

elho said:


> I am slightly confused, so was that a smooth XR-E reflector and a SST-50 pill that have nothing to do with each other or did you use the smooth SST-50 reflector with your XR-E pill, which would make the result even more suprising? :thinking:


 

In the past I did a P60 Turbo head shoot out, but I used only OP reflectors for both the TLS 2.5in bezel and the Dereelight DBS bezel.

The OTF lumens were the same with smoth or OP bezel so I didn't bother with recording that. I expected more throw, but not more then twice.


FYI: The DBS Dereelight has far far far more throw then the D36 drop-ins. 

I was doing lux readings with 2 SST-50 pills equally matched in the lumen department. One inside the Fivemega D36 hosts and the other in the Dereelight DBS hosts. Both had smooth reflectors too. The DBS has more then double the lux and the hotspot is half the size too.

bigC


----------



## elho

I know about the former Turbohead shootout, I am confused about the current DBS setup(s) that you have. But maybe my question was confusing, too, so let me try again:

Did the Dereelight DBS XR-E R2 with smooth reflector that you tested in post #994 use a smooth Dereelight DBS XR-E reflector or a smooth Dereelight DBS SST-50 reflector?

(The former sounds reasonable (but who knows what happens, unless you try), but with you mentioning getting a Dereelight smooth reflector and SST-50 pill in one go confused me. But maybe the trick is that you have both smooth reflectors. :thinking



bigchelis said:


> 2 SST-50 pills equally matched in the lumen department. One inside the Fivemega D36 hosts and the other in the Dereelight DBS hosts. Both had smooth reflectors too.


So in that case the DBS used a smooth Dereelight DBS SST-50 reflector (the XR-E would have a too small hole), right?


----------



## bigchelis

elho said:


> I know about the former Turbohead shootout, I am confused about the current DBS setup(s) that you have. But maybe my question was confusing, too, so let me try again:
> 
> Did the Dereelight DBS XR-E R2 with smooth reflector that you tested in post #994 use a smooth Dereelight DBS XR-E reflector or a smooth Dereelight DBS SST-50 reflector?
> 
> In post #994 the OTF readings were done with OP reflector and the lux readings were also done with smooth reflector. I just put them for reference on the previous lux numbers vs. now with smooth and these are all the old readings. I will post new ones with new SST-50's tonight.
> 
> (The former sounds reasonable (but who knows what happens, unless you try), but with you mentioning getting a Dereelight smooth reflector and SST-50 pill in one go confused me. But maybe the trick is that you have both smooth reflectors. :thinking
> 
> Yeah, I do have the Dereelight SST-50 P60 pill 2.5A regulated but still haven't had time to publish readings on it. Lets just say it gets toasty
> 
> 
> So in that case the DBS used a smooth Dereelight DBS SST-50 reflector (the XR-E would have a too small hole), right?


 
The Dereelight DBS SST-50 comes with OP reflector, but Jay sent me a smooth at my request. In OTF lumens it doesn't matter which one I use, but only the beam and lux change.


----------



## red02

In this thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/216817 and according to Jay from flashlightconnection the DBS XRE R2 with XRE SMO gets about 2k lux at 5m. What do you think this difference is due to?


----------



## bigchelis

red02 said:


> In this thread https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/216817 and according to Jay from flashlightconnection the DBS XRE R2 with XRE SMO gets about 2k lux at 5m. What do you think this difference is due to?


 

I got 1425ihs at 5 meters and calculated back to 1meter.

My XR-E R2 pulls 1.2A at the tailcap, but I have read where others see 1.3A with their dereelight XR-E R2's. 

I think its possible, especially if you have a super low vF like some of those I have been testing from Milky and NB.


bigC


----------



## red02

bigchelis said:


> I got 1425ihs at 5 meters and calculated back to 1meter.
> 
> My XR-E R2 pulls 1.2A at the tailcap, but I have read where others see 1.3A with their dereelight XR-E R2's.
> 
> I think its possible, especially if you have a super low vF like some of those I have been testing from Milky and NB.
> 
> 
> bigC


Is a 60% difference in lux just attributed to just Voltage differences between the LEDs and a tenth of an amp?

Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly does the amperage at the tailcap tell you? Is it the power that goes to the LED, or is just what the driver draws before loses?

Its disappointing to hear that the DBS doesn't really have as much 5m lux with a reflector that I read it had...


----------



## bigchelis

red02 said:


> Is a 60% difference in lux just attributed to just Voltage differences between the LEDs and a tenth of an amp?
> 
> Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly does the amperage at the tailcap tell you? Is it the power that goes to the LED, or is just what the driver draws before loses?
> 
> Its disappointing to hear that the DBS doesn't really have as much 5m lux with a reflector that I read it had...


 


I read about 30% less lux with my set-up. I wonder where the 575lux at 5meters escaped to.


----------



## bigchelis

The new Dereelight SST-50 Cool tint. It has 3 modes and is fully regulated at just 2.5A.

Here is what it does:
Surefire 6P UCL_______Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 18650________ 447.7 _______1 sec_________________________
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________365.4 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*1.1A at the tail*_________________________________________352.3 _______1 min________________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*____________________________________343.8 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added______________________________________________________________________ 339.2_______ 3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS________Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 16340________404.6 _______1 sec____504______12,600______
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________354.6 _______30 sec_______________________
Smooth Reflector_*_______*__*1.1A at the tail*_________________________________________346.2 _______1 min________________________
_____________________________*_____________*____________________________________340.8 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added______________________________________________________________________ 338.5_______ 3 min________________________


----------



## bigchelis

Hi all,

Jay at Flashlightconnection sent me these new XR-E R2 lights to test. I wasn't too excited, but once I turned these on and was like 
http://flashlightconnection.com/VB-16-Flashlights-c33/

I like XR-E R2's driven hard with corresponding heatsinking. These new VB lights do both really well. They drive those little XR-E R2's at 1.2A~1.3A and it appears they got the heatsinking right too.

In the picture below you can see the side switch which is only used to go from low to high, but the clicky tailcap turns it on/off. It seems like infinite modes, but I am sure there are like 30 or so. 






VB-16 M9_____________MC-E_________________2 IMR 18650_____________570.8______1 sec____671_______16,675_____
1.45A at the tail_______________*______________*_____________________553.1______30 sec_______________________
*_____________________*__________________________________________546.9___ ___1 min________________________
A Mag UCL lens fits=22~25 more lumens_______________________________543.8______ 2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _______________540.8______ 3 min________________________
VB-16 R2____________XR-E R2______________1 AW 2600mAh____________ 250.0______1 sec____485_______12,125_____
1.2A at the tail_______________*______________*______________________243.8______30 sec_______________________
*_____________________*__________________________________________239.2___ ___1 min________________________
100% identical OTF lumens with 2 IMR 16340's__________________________236.2______ 2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _______________233.1______ 3 min________________________
VB-16 M16____________XR-E R2______________2 CR123 Primaries________ 288.5______1 sec____152________3,800_____
1.25A at the tail_______________*______________*_____________________260.8______30 sec_______________________
*_____________________*__________________________________________254.6___ ___1 min________________________
small 20mm bezel_____________________________________________ _____251.5______ 2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _______________250.0______ 3 min________________________


----------



## mfrey

bigc,

When you get your hands on the M31, would you please take output and current draw measurements with a single cell in the various chemistries at 1.2, 1.5, and 1.6V?

I'm really curious to see how these perform on one cell. Thank you.


----------



## bigchelis

mfrey said:


> bigc,
> 
> When you get your hands on the M31, would you please take output and current draw measurements with a single cell in the various chemistries at 1.2, 1.5, and 1.6V?
> 
> I'm really curious to see how these perform on one cell. Thank you.


 

Will do:thumbsup:

Im curious myself how it will perform with the various cell lego options out there. I just saw the houndog thrower by Gene with 1.5A 38mm reflector.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

Curious Big C - did you ever test your copper Varapower 2000 w/out the dome? I just got my Tenergy C's from BJ (3 weeks after I got my Lambda light BTW!) and the light is awesome but also real floody  I was hoping someone else could test it first


----------



## FroggyTaco

rickypanecatyl said:


> Curious Big C - did you ever test your copper Varapower 2000 w/out the dome? I just got my Tenergy C's from BJ (3 weeks after I got my Lambda light BTW!) and the light is awesome but also real floody  I was hoping someone else could test it first



I need to get off my butt & send my domeless version to him for testing.


----------



## bigchelis

rickypanecatyl said:


> Curious Big C - did you ever test your copper Varapower 2000 w/out the dome? I just got my Tenergy C's from BJ (3 weeks after I got my Lambda light BTW!) and the light is awesome but also real floody  I was hoping someone else could test it first


 

Im just not brave enough right now.

Maybe FroggyTaco can post some pics for us.


----------



## red02

This is going to be an odd request, but can you test the DBS XRE R2 set up in a SST50 SMO reflector?

Theoretically it should fit even though the SST50 has a larger die and would have a 10deg larger emission angle. Jays from Flashlightconnection says this should work but now the question is how well.


----------



## bigchelis

red02 said:


> This is going to be an odd request, but can you test the DBS XRE R2 set up in a SST50 SMO reflector?
> 
> Theoretically it should fit even though the SST50 has a larger die and would have a 10deg larger emission angle. Jays from Flashlightconnection says this should work but now the question is how well.


 

Jay sent me a DBS Smooth Reflector for the SST-50 pill I been testing as a package/set. The Reflector made for the SST-50 (I presume thats what I have) and I put my old XR-E R2 Dereelight pill in there.


With the new DBS Smooth Reflector(that came with the SST-50 from Jay) the XR-E R2 does 35, 625 lux.
In the past in a XR-E R2 OP Reflector the same pill did 13,225.


----------



## red02

bigchelis said:


> Jay sent me a DBS Smooth Reflector for the SST-50 pill I been testing as a package/set. The Reflector made for the SST-50 (I presume thats what I have) and I put my old XR-E R2 Dereelight pill in there.
> 
> With the new DBS Smooth Reflector(that came with the SST-50 from Jay) the XR-E R2 does 35, 625 lux.
> 
> In the past in a XR-E R2 OP Reflector the same pill did 13,225.



Wow, thanks. It looks like I didn't understand which SMO you tested, but since theres only one available... argh my reading comprehension fails me again. 

Are those figures calculated from 5m lux?


----------



## Midnight Oil

Thanks, Red.

I've found BigC's thread.

Thanks, BigC.

Will everyone rush to get the SST SMO to increase the throw of their DBS R2s?


----------



## red02

Midnight Oil said:


> Thanks, Red.
> 
> I've found BigC's thread.
> 
> Thanks, BigC.
> 
> Will everyone rush to get the SST SMO to increase the throw of their DBS R2s?



.... At lease these reflectors can be restocked.


----------



## Midnight Oil

BigC,

3 more quesitons. 

Does the R2 have more rings in the SST SMO than it does in the XRE SMO?

I think it was joshconsulting, among others, who tried a SST 50 in the XRE SMO and found the beam to be pretty much ring free. Is that the case with the SST 50 in the SST SMO?

Would you find out the lux reading for a Nailbender XPG-R4 @ 1.2A in the SST SMO? I hear this setup gives a R2 beam profile but increased lux.

Thank you!


----------



## bigchelis

Midnight Oil said:


> BigC,
> 
> 3 more quesitons.
> 
> Does the R2 have more rings in the SST SMO than it does in the XRE SMO?
> 
> I think it was joshconsulting, among others, who tried a SST 50 in the XRE SMO and found the beam to be pretty much ring free. Is that the case with the SST 50 in the SST SMO?
> 
> Would you find out the lux reading for a Nailbender XPG-R4 @ 1.2A in the SST SMO? I hear this setup gives a R2 beam profile but increased lux.
> 
> Thank you!


 


The 1 meter lux readings I use are done at 5 meters, then I calculate backwards.
I never had a chance to try/test the XRE-R2 Smooth Reflector.
The single Die SST-50 in the designed SST-50 SMO Reflectors gives out a really nice beam with slight rings, but not obious. Actually really nice because its a single die vs. quad.
I only tested the XP-G R5 from Dereelight in Smooth Reflector, but the rings and beam were fugly. The SST-50 smooth looks alot nicer, but the lumens are not much higher as you saw.
The Dereelight P60 SST-50 pill provides for a nice beam with the Smooth reflector. The sample I got pulls only 1.1A with 8.4V input which makes it 9 watts or so under load.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

Here are the final readings of the Dereelight SST-50 P60 pill with DBS SST-50 Smooth Reflector and in P60 D26 OP reflector set-up too.


Surefire 6P UCL_______Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 18650________ 447.7 _______1 sec_________________________
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________365.4 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*1.1A at the tail*_________________________________________352.3 _______1 min________________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*____________________________________343.8 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added_____________________________________________ _________________________ 339.2_______ 3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS________Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 16340________404.6 _______1 sec____504______12,600______
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________354.6 _______30 sec_______________________
Smooth Reflector_*_______*__*1.1A at the tail*_________________________________________346.2 _______1 min________________________
_____________________________*_____________*____________________________________340.8 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added_____________________________________________ _________________________ 338.5_______ 3 min________________________
Surefire 6P UCL_______Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 18650________ 334.6 _______1 sec_________________________
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________274.6 _______30 sec_______________________
______________*________*__*1.3A at the tail*_________________________________________268.5 _______1 min________________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*____________________________________261.5 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added_____________________________________________ _________________________258.5_______ 3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS________Dereelight SST-50__________2 IMR 16340________337.7 _______1 sec____927______23,175______
2.5A regulated_______________*_______________*____________________274.6 _______30 sec_______________________
Smooth Reflector_*_______*__*1.3A at the tail*_________________________________________270.0 _______1 min________________________
_____________________________*_____________*____________________________________265.4 _______2 min________________________
AS5 added_____________________________________________ _________________________262.3_______ 3 min________________________


----------



## bigchelis

I have to test another L2 type bezel with MC-E Direct Drive again.


This time the L2 bezel has copper and wired 2s2P thanks to AaronM.


Sneak peak at whats to come = efficiency is the goal here!


----------



## SCEMan

Wow. Glad I've got the Nailbender SST-50 (2.8A) pill in my DBS SMO not the Dereelight...

Dereelight DBS_____Nailbender SST-50__________1 IMR 18650__________ 499.2 ______ 1 sec____425________10,625____
__________________________________________________ _____________ 433.1_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.5A 3 mode driver* _____________________________________423.8_______1 min_______________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________416.9_______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________ 413.8_______3 min________________________
Dereelight DBS_____Nailbender SST-50__________1 IMR 18650__________ 498.5 ______ 1 sec________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________ 440.8_______30 sec_______________________
_______________________*2.5A 3 mode driver* ____________*Arctic Silver 5*____________436.2_______1 min_______________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________429.2_______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________________ 426.2_______3


----------



## bigchelis

Hello all,

While we all want the absolute brightest it is also good to have efficiency too. AaronM used alot of copper as seen in the previous posts. He got the stock L2 bezel and put copper heatsink and installed a MC-E Warm 2s2p. With just 6v input and 1A at the tail this light is only operating at 6 watts (no load).


Many XP-G R5 lights at 6 watts make nearly 100 less OTF lumens. EX: The new Malkoff houndog which operates at 6watts = 325 OTF (advertised by Gene). 


Surefire L2______________MC-E Warm________2 Surefire CR123__________416.9______1 sec__________________________
*AaronM custom*____________2s2P__________Uses Stock Driver__________415.4______30 sec_________________________
_________Huge Copper Heatsink_____________________________________415.4______1 min_________________________
___________________________________________1A at tail_____________ 414.6______2 min_________________________
________________________________________________________________413.8______3 min_________________________


----------



## Nitroz

Wow! That L2 is nice and stable and the mod look excellent!

Nice work AaronM!


----------



## psychbeat

^^^and its warm?!

looks great!


is it just a one off custom?


----------



## Nitroz

psychbeat said:


> ^^^and its warm?!
> 
> looks great!
> 
> 
> is it just a one off custom?



I think he has done a few.

Mods like these make me wish I could afford a mill and a lathe.:sigh:


----------



## bigchelis

Member PCC made this 2C Mag with twin K2 TFFC emitters with 3 degree narrow optics. Here is the build thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/283381




I tested this before with 2 li-on 18650 cells and got 2.8A at the tail. The OTF lumens were 580ish, so not much more OTF lumens but the watts/power was 22watts (no load).

I then decided 8V input was too much and wanted to feed it 5.5~7V. I found that 2/3A NiMH cells are perfect match for fitting 5 of these in this Mag. I use 5 NiMH cells for 7V input and get 1.1A at the tail and right under 8watts total. Each emitter is being driven at roughly 1A at the LED.

I like throw and this light puts out a warm tint and throws really far. At 27k lux it is no slouch and yet has alot of spill:twothumbs












2cMag by PCC________2 K2 DD__________________5 NiMH 2/3A___________549.2______ 1 sec___1,118______27,950___
__________________________________*________*______________________ 461.5______ 30 sec______________________
*_________*__Stock Deep Rebel Mag Reflector___________________________ 446.9_______1 min_______________________
_____________________________________________ 1.1A at the tail_______ 429.2_______2 min_______________________
_________________________________________________________________ 424.6_______3 min_______________________


----------



## PCC

Two extenders? I guess a 3C Mag would be the perfect host for this?

Glad to see that you've worked out the power equation on that light. Now I'm starting to think that I need one, too!


----------



## bigchelis

PCC said:


> Two extenders? I guess a 3C Mag would be the perfect host for this?
> 
> Glad to see that you've worked out the power equation on that light. Now I'm starting to think that I need one, too!


 

PCC,

I actually have an extra 2 set of optics and then you would just need the K2's from photonphanatic. 

Ready for you to pick up Sunday:wave:


----------



## PCC

You're killing me, BigC!  Dang it, now I need to spend even more money...:mecry:


----------



## kramer5150

Wow this thread has taken off!! I only wish I could afford some of the things shown here.

Great work bc and all the others who have contributed thus far.


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> With the new DBS Smooth Reflector(that came with the SST-50 from Jay) the XR-E R2 does 35, 625 lux.


Ah, that also answers my previous question, so it was a XR-E in the _SST-50_ smooth reflector. That was the part that I, just like red02, was unsure about.

Now it would be nice if you had an old XR-E smooth reflector to compare... 



bigchelis said:


> [*]The single Die SST-50 in the designed SST-50 SMO Reflectors gives out a really nice beam with slight rings, but not obious. Actually really nice because its a single die vs. quad.
> [*]I only tested the XP-G R5 from Dereelight in Smooth Reflector, but the rings and beam were fugly. The SST-50 smooth looks alot nicer, but the lumens are not much higher as you saw.


And how does the beam of the XR-E in the SST-50 smooth reflector look?


----------



## recDNA

rickypanecatyl said:


> Curious Big C - did you ever test your copper Varapower 2000 w/out the dome? I just got my Tenergy C's from BJ (3 weeks after I got my Lambda light BTW!) and the light is awesome but also real floody  I was hoping someone else could test it first


 
I'd appreciate comment from anyone who owns a Lambdalight...

How can can you run the Varapower 1000 on the highest setting before it gets too hot to handle?

How can can you run the Varapower 2000 on the highest setting before it gets too hot to handle?

Thanks


----------



## bigchelis

The DBS proprietary XR-E R2 smooth Reflector I never had sorry.


The DBS SST-50 smooth reflector gives alot of throw when you stick a XR-E R2 pill in there instead and the beam is a bit ringy, but nicer then the DBS SMO XP-G R5 model and alot nicer then P60 R2 SMO too. I would say well worth upgrade. Now, we have to ask for an EZ900 R2 in there to compare.


The copper VARA2000 has a 5min tops on high.


----------



## rickypanecatyl

recDNA said:


> I'd appreciate comment from anyone who owns a Lambdalight...
> 
> How can can you run the Varapower 1000 on the highest setting before it gets too hot to handle?
> 
> How can can you run the Varapower 2000 on the highest setting before it gets too hot to handle?
> 
> Thanks


 
I have the varapower 2000 with copperheat sink - w/4 tenergy 5000 cells it lasts about 25 minutes on high. Mine certainly is not too hot to handle after 5 minutes but it is really warm. That's of course when I hold the area around the heatsink. Normally I'm holding the flashlight farther back and feel almost no heat at all. 
I do have the 4,500K bulb - don't know if that would make a difference...


----------



## Cole07

Have you tested a new KX4 bezel from Surefire? I would really like to know the numbers on that one :twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

Cole07 said:


> Have you tested a new KX4 bezel from Surefire? I would really like to know the numbers on that one :twothumbs


 


I would like to know too.

Somebody send me one please...


----------



## Cole07

Just for kicks and giggles I am going to guess its about 180 lumens. Just by looking at it. Now I really want to know what the real numbers are


----------



## recDNA

U


rickypanecatyl said:


> I have the varapower 2000 with copperheat sink - w/4 tenergy 5000 cells it lasts about 25 minutes on high. Mine certainly is not too hot to handle after 5 minutes but it is really warm. That's of course when I hold the area around the heatsink. Normally I'm holding the flashlight farther back and feel almost no heat at all.
> I do have the 4,500K bulb - don't know if that would make a difference...



Yes but it might still toast the l.e.d. if the bezel gets that hot. Great output though and even at half power. It really is an ingenious design.

Any answers on the varapower 1000?


----------



## FroggyTaco

recDNA said:


> U
> 
> Yes but it might still toast the l.e.d. if the bezel gets that hot. Great output though and even at half power. It really is an ingenious design.
> 
> Any answers on the varapower 1000?



I also have a Vara 1000 pre production model. It differs in that it uses a modified mag switch that operates just like a mag switch. I can leave that on hi without it ever overheating significantly.


----------



## recDNA

FroggyTaco said:


> I also have a Vara 1000 pre production model. It differs in that it uses a modified mag switch that operates just like a mag switch. I can leave that on hi without it ever overheating significantly.



How does throw compare to 2000?


----------



## bigchelis

I got one of those KL4 bezels that are advertised as 100 lumens and Luxeon 5 Watts.

It seems to be regulated even with 2 li-ons. It runs warm, but hot with 2 AW 17500 cells.

Surefire KL4__________Luxeon 5W stock_______2 Surefire CR123__________121.5______1 sec_________________________
*UBH body w/twistie*_______________________________________________109.2______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 107.7______ 1 min________________________
__________________________________________1.43A at tail____________105.4______ 2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 105.4_______3 min________________________
Surefire KL4__________Luxeon 5W stock_________1 AW 17670___________ 124.6______1 sec_________________________
*UBH body w/twistie*_______________________________________________110.8______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 107.7______ 1 min________________________
___________________________________________1.8A at tail____________103.1______ 2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 103.1_______3 min________________________
Surefire KL4__________Luxeon 5W stock_________2 AW 17500___________ 160.8______1 sec_________________________
*UBH body w/twistie*_______________________________________________131.5______30 sec________________________
________________________________________________________________ 127.7______ 1 min________________________
__________________________________________1.1A at tail_____________126.2______ 2 min________________________
________________________________________________________________ 126.2_______3 min________________________


----------



## don.gwapo

Hoping somebody will send you the mg p-rocket sst-50 cool & neutral whites for you to test bigc. Wish it will hit 500-400 otf coz i'm interested in this budget light. .


----------



## KDOG3

Has any measurements been done on Ra's? I'm wondering what the 170T actually puts out, since I just ordered one!


----------



## bigchelis

KDOG3 said:


> Has any measurements been done on Ra's? I'm wondering what the 170T actually puts out, since I just ordered one!


 


Aren't the Ra's typically low current stuff?

Which one did you purchase?


If its just a 3~5watt light its likely close to whats advertised. Now if it has a P7, MC-E, or SST type emitter then the numbers are all over the place and thats where the builder and components play a bigger role.


----------



## KarstGhost

don.gwapo said:


> Hoping somebody will send you the mg p-rocket sst-50 cool & neutral whites for you to test bigc. Wish it will hit 500-400 otf coz i'm interested in this budget light. .


 
+1 

I've been thinking of ordering the neutral version myself. I'm looking for a search light with a nice tint.


----------



## bigchelis

When I got home from work I got an un-expected surprise..A Malkoff package. I didn't order anything so I was confused

It was an M31 Thank you Gene.......:thumbsup:


I have AA type hosts for this, but decided to test in a 6P since its the most universal and likely candidate for most of us. The new M31 operates at low power/watts, but surprisingly alot of lumens for such low power.

NOTE: The M31 is rated up to 3.3V input, but I tested this sample with 2 NiZn 1.8V each for testing purposes only. 

Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________2 NiMH Tenergy AA________249.2 _______1 sec__________
___________________________*_______________*____________________233.8 _______30 sec_________
______________*________*__*1.25A at the tail*________________________ 232.3 _______1 min__________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________230.0 _______2 min__________
_______________________________________________________________228.5_______ 3 min__________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________1 NiMH Tenergy AA________193.8 ________1 sec__________
___________________________*_______________*____________________173.1 _______30 sec_________
______________*________*____________________1.97A at tail__________166.9 ________1 min________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________161.5 ________2 min________
_______________________________________________________________156.9_________3 min________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31___________2 NiZn AA____________ 323.1 _______1 sec__________
___________________________*_______________*____________________289.2 _______30 sec_________
______________*________*____________________1.1A at tail___________ 282.3 _______1 min__________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________273.8 _______2 min__________
_______________________________________________________________ 273.8_______ 3 min__________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31___________1 NiZn AA____________ 234.6 ________1 sec________
___________________________*_______________*____________________230.8 _______30 sec_________
______________*________*____________________2.45A at tail__________ 226.9 ________1 min_________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________ 223.8 ________2 min__________
_______________________________________________________________ 220.0_________3 min__________


----------



## rickypanecatyl

recDNA said:


> U
> 
> Yes but it might still toast the l.e.d. if the bezel gets that hot. Great output though and even at half power. It really is an ingenious design.
> 
> Any answers on the varapower 1000?


 
I was wondering about that! It is easy to be out of touch with how hot the bezel is as its most comfortable (at least to me) to hold it further away.

I know everyones application is different; I tend to run it full power for just 30 seconds or so and then crank it way down to about 400 lumens or so and then crank it back up when I need to see farther. I'm playing with my night vision when I do that. Without a doubt, 400 lumens with night vision is brighter in my perception than 2000 lumens with shrunken pupils.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> When I got home from work I got an un-expected surprise..A Malkoff package. I didn't order anything so I was confused
> 
> It was an M31 Thank you Gene.......:thumbsup:
> 
> 
> I have AA type hosts for this, but decided to test in a 6P since its the most universal and likely candidate for most of us. The new M31 operates at low power/watts, but surprisingly alot of lumens for such low power.
> 
> NOTE: The M31 is rated up to 3.3V input, but I tested this sample with 2 NiZn 1.8V each for testing purposes only.


 
I wonder if 2 X AA L91 lithium primaries would toast it?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> I wonder if 2 X AA L91 lithium primaries would toast it?


 

There is one way to find out!!!!

Im heading to Frys after work to stock up on some cells to continue testing this M31.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

recDNA said:


> I wonder if 2 X AA L91 lithium primaries would toast it?



See this for info on cells for M31.

Bill


----------



## mfrey

L91 lithium primaries are 1.5V each. Rechargeable lithium cells at 3.7 nominal V are not acceptable for the M31 but two L91s are within the voltage parameters for the unit.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

mfrey said:


> L91 lithium primaries are 1.5V each. Rechargeable lithium cells at 3.7 nominal V are not acceptable for the M31 but two L91s are within the voltage parameters for the unit.



What link in post 1051 says. This has been discussed before in the M31 thread. Lots of info re battery requirements there, and from Gene himself. Actually the L91 has a higher no load voltage of 1.8 volts, though they are considered 1.5 nominal. See here and scroll down.

Bill


----------



## mfrey

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. I thought they topped at 1.5V.

Maybe Gene should change his description of the module though if they are unacceptable for use: "It is ideal for use with one CR123 primary, *two 1.5v AA lithiums*, or two rechargeable AA NIMH batteries."


----------



## recDNA

Bullzeyebill said:


> What link in post 1051 says. This has been discussed before in the M31 thread. Lots of info re battery requirements there, and from Gene himself. Actually the L91 has a higher no load voltage of 1.8 volts, though they are considered 1.5 nominal. See here and scroll down.
> 
> Bill


 
I mean no offense but if you know the answer could you simply state whether or not it is safe to use 2 X L91 or it is not? Perhaps I am dense but I do not see a definitive answer at either of the links you cited.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

recDNA said:


> I mean no offense but if you know the answer could you simply state whether or not it is safe to use 2 X L91 or it is not? Perhaps I am dense but I do not see a definitive answer at either of the links you cited.



The link to Malkoff's web site says, in effect, that it can be used with two 1.5 volt lithium AA cells, so yes, ok to run with 2X L91, which are 1.5 volts, nominal, each. 

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

Well I already tested with L91's and a bunch more AA cells. I will publish tonight.

bigC


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> Well I already tested with L91's and a bunch more AA cells. I will publish tonight.
> 
> bigC



Great! I was disappointed to see the m31 doesn't really fit the javelin without monkeying around to get a good ground connection.


----------



## mfrey

bigchelis said:


> Well I already tested with L91's and a bunch more AA cells. I will publish tonight.
> 
> bigC



I'm definitely looking forward to the results. Thanks again, bigc, for what you personally invest in these tests.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> Well I already tested with L91's and a bunch more AA cells. I will publish tonight.
> 
> bigC


 
Hey BigC - I might be losing it but I could have sworn you did a test of a Maelstrom G5. I can't find it anywhere? I know others have tested it but I prefer to always use your numbers for the sake of consistency.


----------



## FroggyTaco

recDNA said:


> Hey BigC - I might be losing it but I could have sworn you did a test of a Maelstrom G5. I can't find it anywhere? I know others have tested it but I prefer to always use your numbers for the sake of consistency.



A test was done with a pre-production prototype(I was assisting in the testing) but the results were far from ideal with that particular sample after trying virtually all battery configurations allowed.


----------



## recDNA

FroggyTaco said:


> A test was done with a pre-production prototype(I was assisting in the testing) but the results were far from ideal with that particular sample after trying virtually all battery configurations allowed.


 
As far as I can tell nobody has actually gotten 350 otf lumens from it.


----------



## bigchelis

I went to Wallmart and a local Frys, but I couldn't find any Eneloop AA cells. Sorry folks. Here is what I do have:

Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________2 NiMH Tenergy AA________249.2 _______1 sec_________
___________________________*_______________*____________________233.8 _______30 sec___________
______________*________*__*1.25A at the tail*_________________________232.3 _______1 min________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________230.0 _______2 min___________
_______________________________________________________________228.5_______ 3 min______
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________1 NiMH Tenergy AA________193.8 ________1 sec_______
___________________________*_______________*____________________173.1 _______30 sec________
______________*________*____________________1.97A at tail__________166.9 ________1 min___________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________161.5 ________2 min__________
_______________________________________________________________156.9_________3 min_______
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31___________2 NiZn AA____________ 323.1 _______1 sec________
___________________________*_______________*____________________289.2 _______30 sec_________
______________*________*____________________1.1A at tail___________ 282.3 _______1 min______________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________273.8 _______2 min________________
_______________________________________________________________ 273.8_______ 3 min_____________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31___________1 NiZn AA____________ 234.6 ________1 sec_____
___________________________*_______________*____________________230.8 _______30 sec_________________
______________*________*____________________2.45A at tail__________ 226.9 ________1 min_________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________ 223.8 ________2 min_________________
_______________________________________________________________ 220.0_________3 min_________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________2 Energizer L91 AA________246.2 _______1 sec____________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________232.3 _______30 sec___________________
______________*________*__*1A at the tail*___________________________ 230.8 _______1 min___________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________228.5 _______2 min___________________
_______________________________________________________________ 226.9_______ 3 min______________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31________1 Energizer L91 AA________182.3 ________1 sec__________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________157.7 _______30 sec_______________
______________*________*____________________1.8A at tail___________155.4 ________1 min_____________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________153.8 ________2 min_______________
_______________________________________________________________153.8_________3 min______________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31_____2 Energizer Alkaline AA_______ 249.2 _______1 sec_____________
___________________________*_______________*____________________235.4 _______30 sec_________________
______________*________*____________________1A at tail_____________233.1 _______1 min__________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________230.8 _______2 min__________________
_______________________________________________________________ 228.5_______ 3 min__________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31_____1 Energizer Alkaline AA_______ 186.2 ________1 sec________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________159.2 _______30 sec________________
______________*________*____________________2.1A at tail___________ 150.0 ________1 min________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________ 138.5 ________2 min________________
_______________________________________________________________ 133.1_________3 min________________
Surefire 6P UCL_________Malkoff M31_________1 Surefire CR123_________ 246.2 ________1 sec________________
___________________________*_______________*____________________234.6 _______30 sec________________
______________*________*____________________1.2A at tail___________ 232.3 ________1 min________________
Moddoo Zero Tolerance_________*_____________*_____________________ 229.2 ________2 min________________
_______________________________________________________________ 228.5_________3 min________________


----------



## PCC

You should have mentioned that you were looking for Eneloops. I had two of them, brand new, in my bag when I was at your place.


----------



## Moddoo

Just FYI,

The tailcap mod is called a *"Zero Resistance"* mod

"Zero Tolerance" likely came to your brain from the knife world.


not a big deal, Just wanted to point it out.

Thanks for the testing man!


----------



## recDNA

Do you think 2 x NiZn put the M31 into direct drive?

I must say I am disappointed with the performance with 1 x CR123


----------



## Bullzeyebill

recDNA said:


> Do you think 2 x NiZn put the M31 into direct drive?
> 
> I must say I am disappointed with the performance with 1 x CR123


. 

The thing is one NiZn can maintain 1.6 volts flat out for awhile under a load, so the voltage is not sagging with two of them at only 1A draw. The current is hitting the LED at probably better than 1A, but also seems to show a regulated output, with initial drop below the 1 second mark though this is probably due to the NiZn ability to hold voltage under a load. I would like to see an extended runtime using these cells. These NiZn cells are very strong, obviously more powerful than one CR123, which drops voltage quickly, at 1.2A draw. I think that Gene's ideal setup for safe running of the M31 is the use of one CR123, two NiMh's, or two primary Lithium AA's. The Lithium AA's can not hold a candle (LOL) to the NiZn's, even though their startup (no load) voltage is the same.

Bill

Bill


----------



## MrGman

recDNA said:


> Do you think 2 x NiZn put the M31 into direct drive?
> 
> I must say I am disappointed with the performance with 1 x CR123


 

Based on the reduction of current to 1.1A with 2 NiZn I would say no its not over driving it. If the current draw were to start going back up with increased voltage you would know it was past regulation into direct drive. Does not appear to be doing so. This appears to be an optimum way to get over 300 lumens out of this light on 2 AA battery configuration. Paul in Maryland should now be living in ecstaticville.


----------



## mfrey

MrGman said:


> Paul in Maryland should now be living in ecstaticville.



LOL! :laughing: I love that place. I'd move there if I could afford the property taxes.


----------



## recDNA

MrGman said:


> Based on the reduction of current to 1.1A with 2 NiZn I would say no its not over driving it. If the current draw were to start going back up with increased voltage you would know it was past regulation into direct drive. Does not appear to be doing so. This appears to be an optimum way to get over 300 lumens out of this light on 2 AA battery configuration. Paul in Maryland should now be living in ecstaticville.


 
When I add up the cost of a new charger, the batteries themselves, and the M31 it just doesn't seem like I'm improving enough on the Dereelight Javelin drop in with RCR123 or 1 X 14500 with a dummy enough to buy the Malkoff. Add that cost to the possibility of toasting the board and not being able to return it since I ran it over spec and I deduce I'm better off waiting for a more efficient LED to be released by Cree.

Gene won't miss my purchase. Anything he releases is sold out. I think it's a cult thing.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

MrGman said:


> Based on the reduction of current to 1.1A with 2 NiZn I would say no its not over driving it. If the current draw were to start going back up with increased voltage you would know it was past regulation into direct drive. Does not appear to be doing so. This appears to be an optimum way to get over 300 lumens out of this light on 2 AA battery configuration. Paul in Maryland should now be living in ecstaticville.



Yes the current draw from NiZn's is ok, but that boost circuit sure is not "boosting" LOL


----------



## MrGman

Bullzeyebill said:


> Yes the current draw from NiZn's is ok, but that boost circuit sure is not "boosting" LOL


 

If you are being serious and you mean because the source input voltage of the batteries is right at the point where the boost circuit does not have to raise the output voltage from the input voltage, you are most probably right. Plotting the actual current draw from a variable DC power supply running the module would show the exact cross over point.

Needless to say, this is a most awesome set up.

2 AA batteries providing 323 lumens at turn on, and rechargeable to boot, that you can top off everyday and not have to throw away after one use. Somebody must be moving to ecstasyville. 

And getting 249 real out the front lumens out of 2 off the shelf alkalines or 2 NiMH rechargeables was unheard of 2 years ago. And is still a very good level. As wonderful as the M30 was, it certainly did not do that. This M31 is the emergency flashlight dream to run off 2 Alkaline batteries and put out that kind of turn on light output. From what I see it will work and put out the type of useable light most of us want off of 2 AA's of any of the chemistries out there except for those 14500 lithium ions. The output is very respectable off of 1 of any of these AA batteries.

If this light came out 5 years ago goes would be begging to buy them at $250 a pop, for such versatility.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

MrGman said:


> If you are being serious and you mean because the source input voltage of the batteries is right at the point where the boost circuit does not have to raise the output voltage from the input voltage, you are most probably right. Plotting the actual current draw from a variable DC power supply running the module would show the exact cross over point.



Yes, I was serious, and yes, outstanding performance though I am not use to seeing this with AA cells. Also, that must be a tough little driver.

Bill


----------



## recDNA

Ya but the voltage is over spec so if you toast the board you're out $70 plus 2 X NiZn + a charger you don't need any more.


----------



## MrGman

recDNA said:


> Ya but the voltage is over spec so if you toast the board you're out $70 plus 2 X NiZn + a charger you don't need any more.


 

Needs more testing from bigC with more turn ons with fresh off the charger Nickel Zinc batteries but I have the feeling that 2 of those batteries in series are not that bad under load with the voltage sag they have. I am sure someone can provide a chart of the voltage sag of 2 NiZn batteries at a 1 amp load, 1.25 amp load, and 1.5 amp load?


----------



## recDNA

Just doesn't seem much better than the Dereelight Javelin R5 drop in that puts out about the same output on an RCR123 or 3 X AA.


----------



## Wiggle

Edit: sorry wrong thread.


----------



## nanotech17

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

can someone loan bigchelis one of those modded Novatac 120T with K2 TFFC TVOD or UVOE with UCL lens?
thanks.


----------



## daberti

@BigC
I wonder if you tested EagleTac T20C2 MkII with neutral white emitter


----------



## bigchelis

daberti said:


> @BigC
> I wonder if you tested EagleTac T20C2 MkII with neutral white emitter


 

Not yet?

Do you have one for me:naughty:


IMHO the eagletac lights with XP-G's are nice performers in the OTF department and they have many user friendly atributes. The UI is great on them too.


----------



## daberti

bigchelis said:


> Not yet?
> 
> Do you have one for me:naughty:
> 
> 
> IMHO the eagletac lights with XP-G's are nice performers in the OTF department and they have many user friendly atributes. The UI is great on them too.



Maybe I'll have one in some time hence.
Yes, this flashlight rocks with XP-G, yet I cannot stand their colour temperature, that's why I ordered the NW module


----------



## ma_sha1

After reading BigC's post about copper vs Alu. heat sink SST-90, I was not convinced copper be that much brighter at turn on.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...&postcount=910

So here it s, the curiosity got the better of me, I bought BigC's Copper version of Vera2000 to test against my SST-90 Brihtlumen Alu. sink SST-90 Mag 1.5D

Both lights are SST-90 top bin with mag Rebel Deep SMO. 






Visually, the two light appears equally bright. 
I measured Lux @ 5 meter & then converted to lux @ 1meter
*
Mag 1.5D SST-90* Rebel SMO Brightlumen's *Alu. Sink*: *1 meter lux 42,500 *
*Vera2000 Mag 3D* SST-90 Rebel SMO *Copper Sink*: * 1 meter lux 46,250*

The Lambda Vara2000 3D is 9% Brighter than My Mag 1.5D. 
Wola, you say, BigC is right, the copper sink is better! 
*
Not so fast!* I measured tail cap Current(Both Lights are direct drive)

My SST-90 Alum Sink 4XAA Eneloop measured *8.35Amp* at turn on
Vara2000 SST-90 Copper sink 4x5000mah Nimh measured *9.87Amp *at turn on 

The copper sink light has 18% more current at turn on!

*Conclusion: *
The Copper Sink makes NO Difference for Turn on Lumens. 
The increased OTF Lumens observed by BigC was likely resulted from 
AMP difference between the two Vara2000 lights he tested.

Copper sink may cause the light to drop lumens slower than the alu. over time but should not affect Turn on Lumens.


----------



## bigchelis

The VaraPower2000 uses a PWM that while you see the current super high that will not be the case by the time it hits the LED. All I know is that the light will run somewhat regulated at 30Watts. So, I think the voltage is reduced/increased to keep the light steady at 30 WATTS.

GSwitter was able to explain this to me and Lamdalights (kevin) tried too, but I still need an edumacation on this. All I know is that tailcap current to extimate watts/power is not going to work on this VARA2000 like a plain DD SSR-90 build because the light has a PWM.

bigC


----------



## ma_sha1

I measured the Amp with the Vara2000 turned to Max. I.E. PWM @ 100% open. 

That's same as Direct Drive, no regulation.

What you said is true when the knob is turned to lower out put level. The lower level of PWM (Pulse-width modulation) is achieved by quickly tun the light off/on many times per second, thus reduce average lumens out but amp doesn't go down, , thus lower level amp measurement don't correlate with power out. 

However, at 100% max PWM level, it's the same as Direct Drive W/O regulation, the light is running at 9.87 Amp full power, 100% open.


----------



## ti-force

In reference to the copper vs aluminum heatsink Varapower 2000 results:

Quote taken from this post, in this thread.



ti-force said:


> I questioned whether those results would mislead people or not. I posted in that thread hoping to help people understand that those are *two different lights*. What I mean is, the lights have the same *type* of components, but not the *exact same* components. I'm afraid that comparison was flawed from the beginning. There are far too many variables to call that a fair comparison.
> 
> Both lights are using the same emitter type, and both emitters have the same flux binning, but to be fair (and to eliminate variables), the exact same emitter needs to be used during testing for each heatsink type. Let me show you what I mean, and this is only taking into consideration the differences between one emitter and another, again the same type and flux bin, but two different emitters.
> 
> The minimum luminous flux for an SST-90 at 3.15A is 1000 emitter lumens, while the maximum is 1200 emitter lumens at 3.15A. That alone is a possible 200 lumen difference between two emitters that have the exact same flux bin, and the difference could possibly be greater than the datasheet specifies. Let's say the emitter in the aluminum heatsink light is on the low side of the luminous flux rating, and the emitter in the copper version is on the high side of the luminous flux rating; that could easily explain the majority of difference in output.
> 
> Look at the 1 sec reading. The fact that the copper version is almost 300 OTF lumens higher at 1 second should throw up a red flag instantly. There's no way almost 300 OTF lumens is being lost due to aluminum vs copper within 1 sec of turn-on. Now figure in driver variables, switch variables, human error etc., etc., and you can see how the results are not a fair comparison of aluminum vs copper, and that's not even taking into consideration that the guy at Lambdalights did other modifications to improve the output of the copper version for BigC (see this post)
> 
> * BigC is currently working on a light for a true comparison test, and if he uses the exact same light,  swapping only the emitter between the two heatsinks for the test, then the results will be more accurate. I feel like the copper will prove to be advantageous in reducing OTF losses due to heat after possibly a few seconds, but it just isn't feasible that an increase in OTF lumens could be seen at 1 second due to the use of a copper heatsink.*


----------



## elho

ma_sha1 said:


> The Copper Sink makes NO Difference for Turn on Lumens.


Of course. Logic dictates that at turn on, both lights and all their components are at room temperature and it can not make a difference. Sure, 1 sec is already 1 sec after turn on, but heat does not travel that far that fast.



ma_sha1 said:


> Copper sink may cause the light to drop lumens slower than the alu. over time but should not affect Turn on Lumens.


And that is the great thing about it. Turn on is one insignificant split second during ones long use of a flashlight. If turn on Lumens mattered that much, we would be using photo flashlights and not torch ones. 

So, what to do with those numbers is to take the 4 minute readings, set them in relation to the 1 second readings and then compare those.

Doing so gives the aluminium light being down to 70% whereas the copper is only down to 81% of the turn on Lumens after 4 minutes. This still does not take into account any other modifications of the copper light, but if you still assume a higher drive current for the copper variant. which means more heat being generated, you would have to expect it to drop more rather than less, if copper did not make a difference.


----------



## bigchelis

The answer as to which is better is currently in progress.

PCC already made the aluminum heatsink for me and he designed it so that I could swap the identical emitter on the copper and then the brass heatsink.

This project has taken me 2 months now as the 1st challenge was that I could only find SSR-90 56k, but I was firm on getting 65k tint variants and I got them finally.

Then my CNC buddy couldnt do the heatsinks due to backlog of work....

Then PCC who lives locally stepped up to help me out with these heat designs and even made them modular for me. I really want to thank PCC publically for all the hours he spent already on these and the design which is freaking amazing how easy I can later just swap emitters from heatsink to heatsink.

Like Ti-force said I will use the same 3D Mag, Cells, lens, reflector, ect...The only thing that will change is the heatsink. I will of course recored the current at the tailcap.

bigC


----------



## PCC

The copper was ordered late last week and should be shipping tomorrow. I'm hoping to have a working C110 copper heatsink by this coming weekend, depending on when it arrives. I have also ordered some silicon 24G wire in the hopes that three strands will be able to carry the load, up to 12A, without melting the insulation but four strands will easily carry the load if need be but these won't ship for two more weeks. Sorry this is taking so long. Work and family are getting in the way, but, I'm not complaining.

BC, if you run 3D NiMH cells then the heatsink will heat up slower than if you run it on 4C NiMH. I think that the 4D NiMH cells will not sag low enough to not cause the LED to turn blue but 4C should do it. We'll have to try it to see what happens. If worst comes to worst we can run it on two wires which will limit the current to around 9A, which is what we saw last weekend during initial testing of this light on four cells. On three cells it should run around 5-6A.


----------



## ti-force

BigC and PCC:

It doesn't matter to me how long it takes you guys to get the results. No rush from me; I'm just grateful you guys are making sacrifices so the rest of can sit here stuffing our faces with popcorn . Seriously though, thank you both for spending your time and money so everyone can benefit from the results :twothumbs. BTW, if I run out of popcorn, I'll just start on cookies or doughnuts .


----------



## elho

PCC said:


> TIf worst comes to worst we can run it on two wires which will limit the current to around 9A, which is what we saw last weekend during initial testing of this light on four cells. On three cells it should run around 5-6A.


It would probably be both easier to skip the cells and run some heavy gauge wires out the tail to a lab powersupply that gets you whatever current you want. (Just be sure to carefully set the voltage that gives the desire and not use the current limit for that, as SSTs tend to pull more when they get hot.)
This would also improve the experiment as such, as it takes out the cells along with their sag as another variable.


----------



## HeyGuysWatchThis

elho said:


> It would probably be both easier to skip the cells and run some heavy gauge wires out the tail to a lab powersupply that gets you whatever current you want. (Just be sure to carefully set the voltage that gives the desire and not use the current limit for that, as SSTs tend to pull more when they get hot.)
> This would also improve the experiment as such, as it takes out the cells along with their sag as another variable.


 
Now that guy's thinking! Great idea, since as you said, elho, we're not testing batteries here.


----------



## ti-force

Indeed, the fewer the variables the better. Problem is, not everyone has an expensive bench power supply at their house. But maybe BigC or PCC has one.


----------



## PCC

ti-force said:


> Indeed, the fewer the variables the better. Problem is, not everyone has an expensive bench power supply at their house. But maybe BigC or PCC has one.


That's the problem. I don't have one and I'm pretty sure that BC doesn't, either. If someone can suggest an inexpensive one or a way to regulate the power from one of those bench power supplies that provide 14V at up to 10A (which I have to power my hobby battery charger) then we're all ears. I could then rig something up in the tail cap that I had cut for the tailcap switch. I know that this is the ideal way but we're working on tight budgets here. Anyone in the SF Bay Area want to loan us their bench power supply for some testing?


----------



## FroggyTaco

Well how much does a bench power supply cost?

Maybe we can do the donate thing like we did for the larger I.S.

Travis


----------



## recDNA

Any plan to test the hounddog? I'm very curious to see if lux varies with battery config. Lumens is secondary to me but will reveal which combo of batteries works best.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> Any plan to test the hounddog? I'm very curious to see if lux varies with battery config. Lumens is secondary to me but will reveal which combo of batteries works best.


 

Me too. I was concerned when it was asked to compare it against 15k lux at 1 meter lights....M5 Maelstrom.

*The HoundDog* I expect to have at least 20k lux at 1 meter and 350 OTF or more. 

Who wants to send one over?????????:naughty:


----------



## MrGman

bigchelis said:


> Me too. I was concerned when it was asked to compare it against 15k lux at 1 meter lights....M5 Maelstrom.
> 
> The WildCat I expect to have at least 20k lux at 1 meter and 350 OTF or more.
> 
> Who wants to send one over?????????:naughty:


 

you mean the Hound Dog and not the Wildcat in this instance. You believe the Hound Dog to have at least 20K lux at 1 meter. Since it has a light orange peel reflector it may be less but since its sooooo deep maybe more? It sure looks good. It has pretty flat current regulation so I don't expect output to vary within the given battery power range its allowed to have.


----------



## jefft

BigC, I have a Hound Dog if you want me to drop it by sometime...


----------



## recDNA

25 K lux is my magic number


----------



## bigchelis

jefft said:


> BigC, I have a Hound Dog if you want me to drop it by sometime...


 

Jeff,

Nice to hear from you. I sent you a PM already and if you have some other cool stuff I can borrow those lights too.

Thank you,
bigC


----------



## Notsure Fire

recDNA said:


> 25 K lux is my magic number



Sounds about right


----------



## gswitter

ma_sha1 said:


> I measured the Amp with the Vara2000 turned to Max. I.E. PWM @ 100% open.
> 
> That's same as Direct Drive, no regulation.


Little late chiming in here...

Max is not 100% duty cycle on the four cell Vara2000. I don't think Lambda's ever divulged his settings, and they vary from light to light. He has mentioned that his circuit is capable of a 99.x% duty cycle, but only _some_ of the three cell lights will see that. With all of the reductions in resistance, he's found some low Vf SST-50's that can't even handle ~100% duty cycle on three NiMH C cells in the Vara1000. :huh:


----------



## bigchelis

I borrowed this light for testing. I will test the lux next, but for now here you go::::::::


Malkoff Hound Dog________XP-G @1.5A______4 CR123 Primaries___________________________ 362.3______1 sec_______________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 321.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*____521mA at the tail_____________________________________ 319.2______1 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________317.7______2 min________________________
_________________________________________________________________315.4______3 min________________________


EDIT:

Malkoff Hound Dog________XP-G @1.5A_________2 IMR 18650____________ 362.3______1 sec____800_______20,000____
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 321.5______30 sec_______________________
*________*____680mA at the tail_____________________________________ 319.2______1 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _______________316.9______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _______________314.6______3 min________________________


----------



## MrGman

that's a big woof woof aarghhhhhooooooooooooooooooo! to Gene Malkoff and the Hound Dog. :twothumbs

Great Work Big C. I assume the 20,000 is the calculated 1 Meter lux from the 800 lux at 5 meters?


----------



## PCC

PCC said:


> The copper was ordered late last week and should be shipping tomorrow. I'm hoping to have a working C110 copper heatsink by this coming weekend, depending on when it arrives.


The copper came in yesterday while I was at work. I cut off a 2.3" chunk of it and have started to work on it this morning. Facing operations on both ends are done and now the laborious chore of turning it down to fit snugly inside of the Mag tube. I then need to mill out a pocket for the positive terminal and the groove for the wiring as well as drilling and tapping eight holes in this thing. Problem is, I need to leave for work in a few minutes and tomorrow Mrs PCC took the day off (it's my normal day off tomorrow) so that we can take the kids out for some back to school shopping so I will not have another opportunity to work on this again until Saturday afternoon. I'm hoping to get it finished by this coming Sunday morning to give to BC for an aluminum vs copper heatsink shootout. Stay tuned...


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I borrowed this light for testing. I will test the lux next, but for now here you go::::::::
> 
> 
> Malkoff Hound Dog________XP-G @1.5A______4 CR123 Primaries___________________________ 362.3______1 sec_______________________
> __________________________*______________*_______________________ 321.5______30 sec_______________________
> *________*____521mA at the tail_____________________________________ 319.2______1 min________________________
> _________________________________________________________________317.7______2 min________________________
> _________________________________________________________________315.4______3 min________________________
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Malkoff Hound Dog________XP-G @1.5A_________2 IMR 18650____________ 362.3______1 sec____800_______20,000____
> __________________________*______________*_______________________ 321.5______30 sec_______________________
> *________*____680mA at the tail_____________________________________ 319.2______1 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ _______________316.9______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ _______________314.6______3 min________________________


 

So pretty comparable to G5? I was hoping for more throw. Oh well...


----------



## Bullzeyebill

recDNA said:


> So pretty comparable to G5? I was hoping for more throw. Oh well...



You have to look beyond lux to appreciate throw. I have a three inch reflector and run an early Seoul P4 that puts out 42,000 lux pencil beam. Which light do you think would give me more light/information out there, the Seoul P4 in the 3 incher, or the HoundDog with its 20,000 lux and its huge center spot?

Bill


----------



## recDNA

I already have lights in the 20,000 lux range. I had hoped for more. The one with 40,000 lux throws further. The HD is obviously more practical but I've got that covered.


----------



## PCC

The 3D Mag is done, for now, with both an aluminum and a copper heatsink. Awaiting test results from BC, which should take a day or two. When we tested this light earlier it made around 1600 lumens but that dropped rather quickly, probably because the batteries needed to be charged. When I left BC's place the batteries were in the charger.


----------



## bigchelis

PCC said:


> The 3D Mag is done, for now, with both an aluminum and a copper heatsink. Awaiting test results from BC, which should take a day or two. When we tested this light earlier it made around 1600 lumens but that dropped rather quickly, probably because the batteries needed to be charged. When I left BC's place the batteries were in the charger.


 

PCC made this build possible which I think was phenominal in its modularity.

The VARA2000 Copper used a .90in long copper slug as heatsink and same bin and tint SSR-90, but this PCC built Copper SSR-90 Mag uses a 2.5in or so long copper slug. We drove the SSR-90 at (50watts no load) for 6 minutes with 3 minutes on/off period. PCC also used it quite a bit at 20 watts or so to break in the emitter.

The SSR-90 I was told needed a break-in period to trully come to life. We did just that. Put alot of miles on it with lower current. Then I put 2 hot/cold cyles of 6 minutes total at a whopping 50watts(no load). After this I was ready to test for OTF lumens.

Here you go:

Hi all,

I used a 2D Mag Rebel hosts instead of the black 3D. This was due to keep the total power under 30 WATTS.


2D Mag Rebel hosts
Stock rebel reflector cut to fit
Copper heatsink
3 Tenergy NiMH C cells topped off at 1.43V each.
6.6A at the tail
small magnet as tailcap/spring = less resistance (i think)
AS5 as thermal paste
Here are the Copper readings given the test conditions outlined above:

*1 SEC = 2247.7 *
*30 SEC = 2217.9*
*1 MIN = 2133.0*
*2 MIN = 2025.2*
*3 MIN = 2013.8*
*4 MIN = 1970.2*

*Next comes the OTF numbers, but with the aluminum heatsink. Hopefully in the next couple weeks the brass heatsink OTF numbers too.*


----------



## Bullzeyebill

How does the 2D Mag Rebel host keep the power under 30 watts? Built in resistance?

Bill


----------



## FroggyTaco

Bullzeyebill said:


> How does the 2D Mag Rebel host keep the power under 30 watts? Built in resistance?
> 
> Bill



3 C cells in a 2D mag instead of 4 C cells in a 3D mag


----------



## recDNA

What would happen if you ran it for 15 minutes straight? Would the led ?

Oh, and while you have the set-up....could you measure lux too?






bigchelis said:


> PCC made this build possible which I think was phenominal in its modularity.
> 
> The VARA2000 Copper used a .90in long copper slug as heatsink and same bin and tint SSR-90, but this PCC built Copper SSR-90 Mag uses a 2.5in or so long copper slug. We drove the SSR-90 at (50watts no load) for 6 minutes with 3 minutes on/off period. PCC also used it quite a bit at 20 watts or so to break in the emitter.
> 
> The SSR-90 I was told needed a break-in period to trully come to life. We did just that. Put alot of miles on it with lower current. Then I put 2 hot/cold cyles of 6 minutes total at a whopping 50watts(no load). After this I was ready to test for OTF lumens.
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I used a 2D Mag Rebel hosts instead of the black 3D. This was due to keep the total power under 30 WATTS.
> 
> 
> 2D Mag Rebel hosts
> Stock rebel reflector cut to fit
> Copper heatsink
> 3 Tenergy NiMH C cells topped off at 1.43V each.
> 6.6A at the tail
> small magnet as tailcap/spring = less resistance (i think)
> AS5 as thermal paste
> Here are the Copper readings given the test conditions outlined above:
> 
> *1 SEC = 2247.7 *
> *30 SEC = 2217.9*
> *1 MIN = 2133.0*
> *2 MIN = 2025.2*
> *3 MIN = 2013.8*
> *4 MIN = 1970.2*
> 
> *Next comes the OTF numbers, but with the aluminum heatsink. Hopefully in the next couple weeks the brass heatsink OTF numbers too.*


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> What would happen if you ran it for 15 minutes straight? Would the led ?
> 
> Oh, and while you have the set-up....could you measure lux too?


 


With 3 NiMH C cells I feel confortable running it for 15~20 minutes because the overall wattage under no load is well under 30 watts and with load I am sure alot less. 

The OTF numbers were amazing, but the light doesn't get hot. I was surprised it stayed kinda warm to the touch. With 4 NiMH Cells I didn't want to hold it after 1 minute cause it was smoking hot.


I will take lux numbers tonight with the copper slug, then switch to the aluminum heatsink and see what happens.

bigC


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> With 3 NiMH C cells I feel confortable running it for 15~20 minutes because the overall wattage under no load is well under 30 watts and with load I am sure alot less.
> 
> The OTF numbers were amazing, but the light doesn't get hot. I was surprised it stayed kinda warm to the touch. With 4 NiMH Cells I didn't want to hold it after 1 minute cause it was smoking hot.
> 
> 
> I will take lux numbers tonight with the copper slug, then switch to the aluminum heatsink and see what happens.
> 
> bigC



Thanks.


----------



## bigchelis

Here are my lux readings on the PCC 2D Rebel Copper heatsink. 



1825 at 5 meters.....

45,300 lux at 1 meter


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> Here are my lux readings on the PCC 2D Rebel Copper heatsink.
> 
> 
> 
> 1825 at 5 meters.....
> 
> 45,300 lux at 1 meter


 
:devil:

Das is good!


----------



## PCC

Have you tried it outdoors, yet? That light is impressive outdoors and it just lights up the street almost like a car headlight does.


----------



## psychbeat

I hope someone sends in a zebralight sc60.

Im waiting on the HL version which should have the same output.

Id guess 250ish after 30sec?


----------



## bigchelis

PCC said:


> Have you tried it outdoors, yet? That light is impressive outdoors and it just lights up the street almost like a car headlight does.


 

When I had the Deft FTP on loan it lid up a nice spot at 200 yards (Google maps). Now; down the street at the same spot I light up the block :thumbsup:

It is a good hiking light now...we need another Hike meet in San Jose:twothumbs


----------



## recDNA

Now when somebody copies it for under $100 I'm in business. I have a $100 limit. Keeps me out of trouble for the most part. On a couple of occasions I broke my rule and ended up regretting the purchases not just because of expense but because for one reason or another I was actually disappointed in the products.

With the exception of the Fenix TK40 I haven't tried a light yet that struck me as actually being worth over $100 to me. Now I know you'd go broke handbuilding quality merchandise at those prices so I just have to stay away from what I consider "collector" quality flashlights.

All of that said - this one really sounds great! :twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

I will post pictures later on and a new secret CBT-90 Copper VARA2000 Frankenlight comming my way on loan from lambdalights.com

90~100k lux off the same SST-90 type off emitter and the same deep rebel reflector with same control knob.


The PCC built SSR-90 2D/3D Mag is going to be more then that just in parts. The SSR-90 65k tint (impossible to get, but try), the copper slug, UCL lens, 2D Rebel Mag, Rocker switch, AS5 tube, teflon coated wire, time to fabricate all this ect.......$100 dollars would be the deal of the year.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> The PCC built SSR-90 2D/3D Mag is going to be more then that just in parts. The SSR-90 65k tint (impossible to get, but try), the copper slug, UCL lens, 2D Rebel Mag, Rocker switch, AS5 tube, teflon coated wire, time to fabricate all this ect.......$100 dollars would be the deal of the year.


 

Oh I know that. I enjoy seeing the pics and reading the stats. That will have to do. Great stuff.


----------



## ti-force

BigC,

I know I remember you testing an Olight SR-90, but I can't seem to find it. Am I missing it somehow? I just finished testing one of the new SR-91's, and I wanted to compare for giggles .


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force said:


> BigC,
> 
> I know I remember you testing an Olight SR-90, but I can't seem to find it. Am I missing it somehow? I just finished testing one of the new SR-91's, and I wanted to compare for giggles .


 

I sure did: I still have to put them on my thread.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> I sure did: I still have to put them on my thread.



Sweet! Thanks! I thought I was going crazy or something. Here's a link to the SR-91 review if you're interested.


----------



## FroggyTaco

I finally got around to doing some beam shots of both my V2k & prototype V1K.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3522049#post3522049


----------



## ma_sha1

Big C, 

Can your sphere measure over 3000 OTF? I am planning on the Full Copper heat-sinked Tri SST-90 to get back to the top of your chart.
I am anticipating ~4000 Lumens OTF (~6000 led lumens), but not sure if you sphere can measure that high? 

I like that you re-organized the charts. If you list the lights by OTF numbers from big to small in each category, it'll be more interesting. 
It'll motivate people to send lights in & get to the top of your chart :devil:


----------



## bigchelis

ma_sha1 said:


> Big C,
> 
> Can your sphere measure over 3000 OTF? I am planning on the Full Copper heat-sinked Tri SST-90 to get back to the top of your chart.
> I am anticipating ~4000 Lumens OTF (~6000 led lumens), but not sure if you sphere can measure that high?
> 
> I like that you re-organized the charts. If you list the lights by OTF numbers from big to small in each category, it'll be more interesting.
> It'll motivate people to send lights in & get to the top of your chart :devil:


 


If I recall It should be good up to 4500 OTF lumens.


Good idea on the charts too. The lights would be bragging rights for the manufacturers, so I dont know how great that would be. Now; if it would be DIY sub 4500 lumens lights in order then the chart might be fun.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> If I recall It should be good up to 4500 OTF lumens.



BigC,

20,000 divided by your constant will give you your max OTF capabilities.


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force said:


> BigC,
> 
> 20,000 divided by your constant will give you your max OTF capabilities.


 

Yeah, but Im at work and my home laptop has my constant synchronized with a spreadsheet and I cant remember right now. 


Thanks,
bigC


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> Yeah, but Im at work and my home laptop has my constant synchronized with a spreadsheet and I cant remember right now.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> bigC



Should be around 3000 OTF with your 24" sphere.


----------



## bigchelis

The 24in Sphere can measure up to 4587 OTF lumens:wave::wave::wave:


Now: I got a 2D Electrolumens with MC-E. The heatsink I noticed was really not to my liking so, I asked PCC if he can make me a heatsink with his copper slugs. Since it was DD off 3 NiMH C cells I figured the copper slug would be nice.

Here are some heatsink pictures and lumens before and after:
Electrolumens 2D Blaster______MC-E DD__________3 NiMH C cells_________ 753.8______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 580.8______30 sec_______________________
*Stock aluminum heatsink*____________________________________________548.5_ _____1 min________________________
____________________________________By PCC_______________________ 523.8______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _______________ 519.2______3 min________________________

Electrolumens 2D Blaster______MC-E DD__________3 NiMH C cells_________ 774.6______1 sec________________________
__________________________*______________*_______________________ 625.4______30 sec_______________________
*Huge Copper heatsink*______________________________________________613. 8______1 min________________________
____________________________________By PCC_______________________ 605.4______2 min________________________
__________________________________________________ _______________ 606.2______3 min________________________














*Here is the original heatsink leaning on the new and improved heatsink.*


----------



## PCC

Dang, that thing looks ugly (the copper one). That's part of the reason I never took pictures of it. It was a bear to make and caused me to throw a few fits. I'm glad you like it and good to see the numbers from it. That Ledil optic throws a really nice beam. Looks like I'm going to be ordering one or two for myself but I need to find a good host for it.

BTW, I found out that the Blaster head is thread compatible with my old, pre-D MagLite. Interesting...


----------



## bigchelis

PCC said:


> Dang, that thing looks ugly (the copper one). That's part of the reason I never took pictures of it. It was a bear to make and caused me to throw a few fits. I'm glad you like it and good to see the numbers from it. That Ledil optic throws a really nice beam. Looks like I'm going to be ordering one or two for myself but I need to find a good host for it.
> 
> BTW, I found out that the Blaster head is thread compatible with my old, pre-D MagLite. Interesting...


 

When I tested with the original heatsink I didnt use the front lens, but when I took the new OTF readings I did. Plus, I have to re-measure with no lens and sub C NiMH by Tenergy. The current is actuall the same as the full size C's. I just looked at my notes and originally I actuall tested with those Tenergy Sub C's, not full size variants. So, I have to re-test for consistantcy and duplicate the test with the same variables (minus the heatsink of course).


more on that later


----------



## FroggyTaco

PCC said:


> Dang, that thing looks ugly (the copper one). That's part of the reason I never took pictures of it. It was a bear to make and caused me to throw a few fits. I'm glad you like it and good to see the numbers from it. That Ledil optic throws a really nice beam. Looks like I'm going to be ordering one or two for myself but I need to find a good host for it.
> 
> BTW, I found out that the Blaster head is thread compatible with my old, pre-D MagLite. Interesting...



Need a 2D mag with the rebel reflector?


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> The 24in Sphere can measure up to 4587 OTF lumens:wave::wave::wave:



My 24" sphere is good to 2985 OTF; your constant is lower than mine.


----------



## ma_sha1

The copper heat sink looks like an Overkill for MCE. 
But for Triple SST-90, it'll be a different story :devil:





bigchelis said:


> The 24in Sphere can measure up to 4587 OTF lumens:wave::wave::wave:
> 
> 
> Now: I got a 2D Electrolumens with MC-E. The heatsink I noticed was really not to my liking so, I asked PCC if he can make me a heatsink with his copper slugs. Since it was DD off 3 NiMH C cells I figured the copper slug would be nice.
> 
> Here are some heatsink pictures and lumens before and after:
> Electrolumens 2D Blaster______MC-E DD__________3 NiMH C cells_________ 753.8______1 sec________________________
> __________________________*______________*_______________________ 580.8______30 sec_______________________
> *Stock aluminum heatsink*____________________________________________548.5_ _____1 min________________________
> ____________________________________By PCC_______________________ 523.8______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ _______________ 519.2______3 min________________________
> 
> Electrolumens 2D Blaster______MC-E DD__________3 NiMH C cells_________ 774.6______1 sec________________________
> __________________________*______________*_______________________ 625.4______30 sec_______________________
> *Huge Copper heatsink*______________________________________________613. 8______1 min________________________
> ____________________________________By PCC_______________________ 605.4______2 min________________________
> __________________________________________________ _______________ 606.2______3 min________________________
> 
> 
> 
> *Here is the original heatsink leaning on the new and improved heatsink.*


----------



## ma_sha1

deleted duplication


----------



## PCC

^^^ ma_sha1 is so convinced that the copper heatsink is overkill that he had to post it twice  Looking at the numbers you can see that the copper heatsink really does help when you get past about 1 minute. Those numbers might improve if bigchelis carefully removes the LED and applies some Arctic Silver underneath the star.



FroggyTaco said:


> Need a 2D mag with the rebel reflector?


Thanks! Are you going to the next SheDevil GTG? LMK how much you want for it. I was going to wait for the next Black Friday Lowe's sales to pick one up but I'm definitely interested in yours.


----------



## FroggyTaco

I am going to the GtG & consider it a donation to flashlight science.

p.s. It has the Minimag module in it currently.


----------



## PCC

Sweet! Pricing that even my wife can't complain about. Yes, all in the name of science. I'll even name it after you if you want unless you want a specific name for it.

I'm envisioning an MC-E wired 4S, Ledil optic, copper/aluminum hybrid heatsink, TaskLED MaxFlex driver, two big Li-Ion cells. Should be fun! :devil:


----------



## bigchelis

Hi all,

I am giving up the Spheres. It just eats up too much of my time and I neglected other important things in my life.

I want to thank MrGman for his help and everybody else on this forum for sending in lights and contributing info/data for the testing. I will update the 1st page with a bunch of lights that I still havent put up there. They are mainly the quarks and other low lumen lights.

Plus; Ti-Force does a way way better job using an identical Sphere with those fancy mancy pictures

Thank you,
Jose


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am giving up the Spheres. It just eats up too much of my time and I neglected other important things in my life.
> 
> I want to thank MrGman for his help and everybody else on this forum for sending in lights and contributing info/data for the testing. I will update the 1st page with a bunch of lights that I still havent put up there. They are mainly the quarks and other low lumen lights.
> 
> Plus; Ti-Force does a way way better job using an identical Sphere with those fancy mancy pictures
> 
> Thank you,
> Jose




BLASPHEMY!!! It's blasphemy I tell you! (j/k  ) But BigC, at least think on it for a couple of days, and then maybe a couple more days. I understand where you're coming from though, and you of all people know what's best for yourself, but at least hang on to it for a while before you part with it. You know you'll get a light every now and then that you just gotta know what it makes OTF ...........:candle:

BTW, even with my fancy schmancy pictures, I still haven't put in the amount of time and effort that you have by testing all of those lights. You've done an outstanding job ........................

But seriously, just take a break without parting with it and really give it some thought. You know how much trouble it is to get this kind of accuracy.


----------



## ma_sha1

bigchelis said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am giving up the Spheres. It just eats up too much of my time and I neglected other important things in my life.



Wow, big shocking statement! Are you checking into a Sphere rehab? :devil:

Just kidding, Good call, glad you are still aware of the right priorities.

Thanks for all the measurements done.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am giving up the Spheres. It just eats up too much of my time and I neglected other important things in my life.
> 
> I want to thank MrGman for his help and everybody else on this forum for sending in lights and contributing info/data for the testing. I will update the 1st page with a bunch of lights that I still havent put up there. They are mainly the quarks and other low lumen lights.
> 
> Plus; Ti-Force does a way way better job using an identical Sphere with those fancy mancy pictures
> 
> Thank you,
> Jose




Nobody does a better job than you.
I'll really miss your work.
I hope you'll still have time to post once in a while. You've helped me out on several occasions.

Thanks Jose


----------



## SCEMan

bigchelis:

Congrats on returning to a "normal" life. Unfortunately your testing will be sorely missed by all at CPF...

Thanks for all your time and effort!


----------



## ti-force

Jose,

I've been thinking more about this situation and I can see where all of this has taken a toll on your personal life. Something I've noticed is how our work is appreciated by a lot of people, but it's almost like certain individuals expect it, almost like they think its owed to them or something :shakehead.

Anyway, I've learned that you can't please everyone, and you'll run yourself crazy (and destroy your personal life) trying to. If you decide to keep the sphere, just remember that it's your choice what you test. If there's a light that you want to test, test it. If you only want to test for OTF lumens and not Lux, then do that. In the end, the decision is yours and I've found that it's more enjoyable if you test what *YOU* want to test and not everything that everyone wants you to test. I mean, after all, we're not getting paid to do any of this, in fact it's actually an expense, and it ends up costing us money to share these results.

Best of luck either way.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Just thought I would offer to be the west coast sphere man if you were interested in me care taking the measuring for a bit.

Travis


----------



## bigchelis

I have a last minute light that I tested. It was an XR-E R2 EZ900 purchased from DX on a 20mm board here: Item number 15943
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15943

I purchased 4 of these Stars for testing if they actually can throw. They can throw, but since I got them from DX its likely a low bin Q5 or worse.

Sample 1: Nailbender helped me out and put it inside a D26 P60 drop-in with a 1.3A driver. It does 210 OTF and drops a little bit. I didnt take the lux and I couldnt tell which threw further when compared to an Dereelight XR-E R2 EZ100. The hotspot was a tiny bit smaller in doors.

Sample 2: Nailbender put it in a KT-1 Tower for me, with the same 1.3A driver as the P60 drop-in. This one made barely 150 OTF and dropped really fast from there. The lux were equally disapointing at just 4,125 at 1 meter.

Sample 3: I had some extra parts and PCC helped me assemble this set-up. Its just a 2D LED Rebel light. We used a aluminum heatsink left-over from the SSR-90 testing and as you can imagine the lumens were alot better. I got 247.7 turn-on and then the lumens hovered around 220 for the next 3 minutes. The kicker is the Rebel Deep Mag Reflector focuses the beam really well into a tiny tight super intense hotspot. I got 57,500 lux at 1m. I think this is definitely more throw then XR-E R2 Aspherics I have had in the past.

Sample 4: was donated to PCC for???


----------



## PCC

bigchelis said:


> Sample 4: was donated to PCC for???


I still haven't decided what I want to do with that one, yet. I know that it is best used for a throwerm, but, if you recall, I'm not one for throwers. I just might put it into my TLS TX3 head as that is my only true turbo head so far and it should make it even better for throw, but, I don't know. I guess I can put together a 2D MagLite with the Rebel reflector and go for throw that way.


----------



## MrGman

bigchelis said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am giving up the Spheres. It just eats up too much of my time and I neglected other important things in my life.
> 
> I want to thank MrGman for his help and everybody else on this forum for sending in lights and contributing info/data for the testing. I will update the 1st page with a bunch of lights that I still havent put up there. They are mainly the quarks and other low lumen lights.
> 
> Plus; Ti-Force does a way way better job using an identical Sphere with those fancy mancy pictures
> 
> Thank you,
> Jose


 
Thanks for all the hard work that you did Jose. You put together a big body of work that will be out there for a long time as a great testament to your dedication to shedding truth on the lights. It is a lot of work and I can totally understand the need to step away from it after a while. 

Are you selling off the spheres/meter to free yourself to someone who just can't wait to be the new lumen's master? As long as you have them in the house there will always be that guy who wants one more test by special request. 

Congratulations on your new found freedom, G.


----------



## GoldenF1

Thank you for posting this, it really helped me.

Now i need to find the money to buy it with. :ironic:



Thanks for your work again.


----------



## bigchelis

Here is the 2D Mag xr-e ez900


----------



## ti-force

This light was modded by CPF member Vestureofblood, then sent to me for OTF testing in my 16" sphere system. With permission from BigC, I'm posting my results for this light here.

*Light:* Surefire E2DL
*Emitter:* SSR-90
*Battery:* 2- AW IMR 16340's
*Battery Voltage:* Cell #1 = 4.206v; Cell #2 = 4.216v


1 Sec______631.5
30 Sec______603.6
1 Min_______592.7
2 Min_______579.4
3 Min_______570.9


----------



## Anto

That is BAD ***. DD I'm assuming? What's realistic runtime on that?

Jose - Thanks for all your time & effort! Your work is greatly appreciated!


----------



## ti-force

Anto said:


> That is BAD ***. DD I'm assuming? What's realistic runtime on that?
> 
> Jose - Thanks for all your time & effort! Your work is greatly appreciated!



I'll let Vestureofblood answer with specifics, but it's not DD


----------



## vestureofblood

Thanks Big C and to ti-force for doing this for me.


The E2DL has a 3 mode buck converter with a high of 3.1A that is powered by 2 IMR 16340s.


----------



## wyager

vestureofblood said:


> Thanks Big C and to ti-force for doing this for me.
> 
> 
> The E2DL has a 3 mode buck converter with a high of 3.1A that is powered by 2 IMR 16340s.



oo:
WOW!
I imagine the throw isn't great?


----------



## sfca

ti-force said:


> This light was modded by CPF member Vestureofblood, then sent to me for OTF testing in my 16" sphere system. With permission from BigC, I'm posting my results for this light here.
> 
> *Light:* Surefire E2DL
> *Emitter:* SSR-90
> *Battery:* 2- AW IMR 16340's
> *Battery Voltage:* Cell #1 = 4.206v; Cell #2 = 4.216v
> 
> 
> 1 Sec______631.5
> 30 Sec______603.6
> 1 Min_______592.7
> 2 Min_______579.4
> 3 Min_______570.9




Beautiful! The specs don't show too much drop but it must get hot.


----------



## ti-force

sfca said:


> Beautiful! The specs don't show too much drop but it must get hot.



I figure roughly 10-11 watts. It gets pretty toasty :devil:


----------



## vestureofblood

wyager said:


> oo:
> WOW!
> I imagine the throw isn't great?


 
Thanks 

Actually the throw is better than you would think. The reflector I used in this is fairly deep for it size 15MM (Kl4 is like 10ish I think). The hot spot is very large even at close range an in the open is indistinguishable. However by brute force this light crashes its way smoothly and evenly through the darkness for about 65 yards.


----------



## wyager

Very cool.


----------



## TITANER

recDNA said:


> Nobody does a better job than you.
> I'll really miss your work.
> I hope you'll still have time to post once in a while. You've helped me out on several occasions.
> 
> Thanks Jose


 Yes,good job:thumbsup:,very helpful test and info.Also hope you'll still have time to post once in a while.Thank you bigchelis .


----------



## TITANER

vestureofblood said:


> Thanks
> 
> Actually the throw is better than you would think. The reflector I used in this is fairly deep for it size 15MM (Kl4 is like 10ish I think). The hot spot is very large even at close range an in the open is indistinguishable. However by brute force this light crashes its way smoothly and evenly through the darkness for about 65 yards.


 Wow,sounds good


----------



## recDNA

Thanks for the mea-sure-ments! (sing previous sentence in your imagination to Bob Hope's _Thanks for the Memories_) I wonder where _VoB_ got the driver and what its specs are?



ti-force said:


> This light was modded by CPF member Vestureofblood, then sent to me for OTF testing in my 16" sphere system. With permission from BigC, I'm posting my results for this light here.
> 
> *Light:* Surefire E2DL
> *Emitter:* SSR-90
> *Battery:* 2- AW IMR 16340's
> *Battery Voltage:* Cell #1 = 4.206v; Cell #2 = 4.216v
> 
> 
> 1 Sec______631.5
> 30 Sec______603.6
> 1 Min_______592.7
> 2 Min_______579.4
> 3 Min_______570.9


----------



## caall99

Have you taken a look at the MG P-rocket and X-thrower with SSt-50s? I wonder where those two would end up on this list.


----------



## bigchelis

caall99 said:


> Have you taken a look at the MG P-rocket and X-thrower with SSt-50s? I wonder where those two would end up on this list.


 

About 400~500 OTF lumens. In order to get huge OTF lumens with those SST-50 or SST-90 emitters you need alot of heatsink material and those 18650 hosts you mentioned are 6in type aka: small. Plus, while the throw should be more then 5~6K, I thought it will be much more then that. I think most of us here consider throw lights at 20~30k lux at the very least.

bigC


----------



## recDNA

Hi BigC! Nice to see you back. 

You're the lumens-meister around here. To my eyes in a C2 a P91 bulb looks brighter to me with 2 X IMR16340 than a Nailbender 2.8 amp 3 mode SST-50 on high with 18650. Am I nuts?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

recDNA said:


> Hi BigC! Nice to see you back.
> 
> You're the lumens-meister around here. To my eyes in a C2 a P91 bulb looks brighter to me with 2 X IMR16340 than a Nailbender 2.8 amp 3 mode SST-50 on high with 18650. Am I nuts?



Not nuts, just abi-normal like the rest of us flashaholics. LOL

Bill

ps. I like a nice bright P91 myself.


----------



## recDNA

Bullzeyebill said:


> Not nuts, just abi-normal like the rest of us flashaholics. LOL
> 
> Bill
> 
> ps. I like a nice bright P91 myself.



Well the spill of the SST-50 may be brighter but the hotspot looks dimmer.


----------



## recDNA

Ti-Force was kind enough to mod my Titanium Quark 123 head (with 123 X 2 body)with the Shiningbeam 1.4 amp driver and I'm here to tell you that the results were SPECTACULAR! 

___________Ti-Force/ShiningBeam 1.4A Mod, AW 17670____________

_______________1 Sec_____321.2___________
______________30 Sec_____272.7____________
______________1 Min______265.5____________
______________2 Min______259.4____________
______________3 Min______257_____________

_________Factory Driver, AW RCR123_______________

______________1 Sec_____219.4__________
_____________30 Sec_____200____________
______________1 Min _____196.4__________
______________2 Min _____191.5__________
______________3 Min _____190.3__________

The Quark 123 still has a nice low and medium and now max is not only blazin the green tint is now replaced by the color of newly fallen snow! I can still use it with RCR123 and the short body with only a tiny drop in output:

1.4 amps at the tailcap with 17670
1.3 amps at the tailcap with RCR123


Jealous? :nana:



Thanks Again Ti-Force!


----------



## ti-force

recDNA said:


> Thanks Again Ti-Force!





You're welcome . I'm glad you're happy with your light. Enjoy :thumbsup:.


----------



## recDNA

We didn't know how lucky we were when getting updates virtually every day on the hottest new items. I'm intrigued by the lux and lumen ratings of some of the new p60s coming out these days. I've read rave reviews of the manafont t6 and I wonder about the malkoff xml drop in m91. Lots of new fenix a d 4sevens coming out too. I don't know if we can always trust the supposed ansi numbers quoted...like what the heck is ansi otf? I know what ansi is and what otf is but is ansi otf at 3 min or 10 min or initial otf? I trust our intrepid spheresters more than advertised numbers.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## Calina

recDNA said:


> We didn't know how lucky we were when getting updates virtually every day on the hottest new items.


 
Don't worry, we knew ! :naughty:


----------



## ti-force

I'll probably never be able to put in the amount of work BigC has in this thread, but I do have some Maelstrom S12 OTF data to post, so stay tuned. It will probably be tomorrow night before I get it posted, though.


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force said:


> I'll probably never be able to put in the amount of work BigC has in this thread, but I do have some Maelstrom S12 OTF data to post, so stay tuned. It will probably be tomorrow night before I get it posted, though.


 
I was really temped to purchase the S12 myself to see what it did in OTF.

MOre importantly; I wanted to take out the driver and run it direct drive.

bigC


----------



## LichtAn!

bigchelis said:


> I was really temped to purchase the S12 myself to see what it did in OTF.
> 
> MOre importantly; I wanted to take out the driver and run it direct drive.
> 
> bigC


 
I'd love to see results of that.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I was really temped to purchase the S12 myself to see what it did in OTF.
> 
> MOre importantly; I wanted to take out the driver and run it direct drive.
> 
> bigC


 
I was thinking that a 3 volt LiFePO4 would make a good power source for a DD XM-L. What do you think?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> I was thinking that a 3 volt LiFePO4 would make a good power source for a DD XM-L. What do you think?
> 
> Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk




For a DD SST-90 = yes, but no way an XM-L will handle it.


----------



## Yoda4561

Folks have run them unresistored off a 4.2v IMR18650, pushing the upper limits, but with a 3-something volt LiFe they shouldn't have any trouble at all. Pretty sure we lost a number of pertinent posts, but here's one. http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?306783-XM-L-and-an-IMR-18650 I think some folks tried the 26650 batteries, but there wasn't enough voltage sag and they instaflashed the LED. Off the IMR18650's I think a few went blue (if the thermal path wasn't ideal) but didn't most didn't seem to suffer permanent damage.


----------



## ti-force

bigchelis said:


> I was really temped to purchase the S12 myself to see what it did in OTF.
> 
> MOre importantly; I wanted to take out the driver and run it direct drive.
> 
> bigC


 
This S12 is a loaner, so no modding this one . CPF member Got Lumens? was kind enough to send his light to me so we can all know how it performs :thumbsup:. I didn't have a chance to finish testing last night (life called), but I hope to finish up tonight and post my results. I will say this, the S12's output after 3 minutes runtime on high is greatly affected by the temperature of the the light (pretty much expected from something that's thermally controlled). The cooler you can keep the light, the better the light sustains its high output. I'm also testing to see if added resistance has a negative affect on output. 

This light would get extremely hot if it didn't have thermal regulation, so if you decide to dd one, I would expect it to get real hot within a few minutes, maybe less. It would be extremely bright for a short period of time, especially for such a compact light.


----------



## ma_sha1

recDNA said:


> I was thinking that a 3 volt LiFePO4 would make a good power source for a DD XM-L. What do you think?


 
The Lifepo4 is 3.3-3.4v normally w/o load, too close to XML-vf. When under load, the battery voltage will drop & Led vf will rise. Single Lifepo4 will not poof the XML, just the opposite, it'll not be able to provide enough Amps to get to the 3A spec, probably a lot less. It's not a good solution due to under drive not over drive XML in DD. 

Single IMR 26500 & 26650 are 4.1v os so normally, DD get 3-4 Amp on several XMLs I tested & for a few other XMLs, it went up to 6 Amp. It takes very small vf. difference to see huge current variations under single IMR. 

Since XMLs are not binned by Vf like P7 used to be, one can not manage Direct Drive as confidently as P7.


----------



## recDNA

7


ma_sha1 said:


> The Lifepo4 is 3.3-3.4v normally w/o load, too close to XML-vf. When under load, the battery voltage will drop & Led vf will rise. Single Lifepo4 will not poof the XML, just the opposite, it'll not be able to provide enough Amps to get to the 3A spec, probably a lot less. It's not a good solution due to under drive not over drive XML in DD.
> 
> Single IMR 26500 & 26650 are 4.1v os so normally, DD get 3-4 Amp on several XMLs I tested & for a few other XMLs, it went up to 6 Amp. It takes very small vf. difference to see huge current variations under single IMR.
> 
> Since XMLs are not binned by Vf like P7 used to be, one can not manage Direct Drive as confidently as P7.


 
Thanks for the explanation. I thought that th voltage of the lifepo being close to the Vf of tbe xml made it ideal. I thought it was powerful enough not to sag much but Ilack the experience that you have. I've been trying to think of a build that would suit lifepo so I could try a safer chemistry. I'll have to wait for a qualified builder to come along. I figured DD would be easier to build but that imr cells would toast the led.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## ti-force

S12 OTF measurements can be found here.


----------



## Yoda4561

recDNA said:


> 7
> 
> Thanks for the explanation. I thought that th voltage of the lifepo being close to the Vf of tbe xml made it ideal. I thought it was powerful enough not to sag much but Ilack the experience that you have. I've been trying to think of a build that would suit lifepo so I could try a safer chemistry. I'll have to wait for a qualified builder to come along. I figured DD would be easier to build but that imr cells would toast the led.
> 
> Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk



Just going by the Cree vf:current spec sheet and assuming 3.0-3.2v under load for the cells, you "should" run between 280-600 lumens depending on the particular LED's exact vf and battery condition. This puts the drive current between 1amp (3.0v) and 2 amps (3.2v) As long as you're not looking for max output, it should be a nearly ideal direct drive battery, since there's almost no way it should overdrive the LED.


----------



## bigchelis

Its been a while, but to revive this sticky thread I have a cool light for testing. I will post the number on Saturday.

The VaraPower1000 by Lamdalights.com = whats different about it????? 


*The Hosts is a 3C Mag now. No more D size.*
*The heatsink is pure copper*
*The emitter is a XM-L 6T*
*Direct Copper to LED reflow*
*Driven hard...reall hard*
*60~80K lux at 1M is predicted*
*1000 OTF at least is expected*
*Uses Deep Rebel Reflector*
There is a 2C Mag VaraPower 2C in testing and specs are not finalized, but I hope to test that one too. Please note: these are usually sold out quick, so if you want one you have to check his site regularly. 

There is a 2C Mag XM-L that will not have the 33 VaraPower modes, but will offer 3A to the LED from 1.2V~2.8V; I have been waiting since late last year for this one too. I have my paypal ready for this one for sure.


----------



## recDNA

People in this thread know as much about flashlight output as anyone anywhere so could someone answer this question? How is it possible that the thrunite catapult v3 is rated under 770 ANSI lumens even though the emitter is driven at 3.5 amps yet the fenix tk35 is rated over 800 ANSI lumens though very likely driven at lower amperage? Is ANSI bogus or has Fenix discovered something nobody else knows?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


----------



## bigchelis

Hi all,

The Lamdalights 3C VaraPower had a loose ground connection. Which is fine since they are not for sale yet, till Kevin feels they are perfect.

Instead, I got the 2C XM-L low voltage input. This one is designed to run 3A at the LED with 1V~3V inputs and is fully regulated.

I did a quick test and get *620 OTF lumens* on a fresh pair of NiMH C cells by Tenergy with 4.25A at the tailcap.

I will be doing alot of testing on this one. So, stay tunned.

3A at the LED
XM-L 6T
Copper heatsink
Copper to LED bonding
Full power from 1 or 2 NiMH C cells.
Can use Alkalines at reduced output.


----------



## recDNA

I don't know if anybody is still .doing tests these days but I can think of one I'd LOVE to see. I'm very curious if running a finned P60 head makes any real difference in the output of a high powered drop in in a room at room temperature. find it hard to believe that the increase in surface area is great enough to dissipate enough heat to matter without adding a fan or cold temp to help carry the heat away. Still air is a very poor conductor of heat. I don't like the looks or feel of heavily finned heads but if they really make a significant difference that is translated into the output curve I'd love to see it.


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> I don't know if anybody is still .doing tests these days but I can think of one I'd LOVE to see. I'm very curious if running a finned P60 head makes any real difference in the output of a high powered drop in in a room at room temperature. find it hard to believe that the increase in surface area is great enough to dissipate enough heat to matter without adding a fan or cold temp to help carry the heat away. Still air is a very poor conductor of heat. I don't like the looks or feel of heavily finned heads but if they really make a significant difference that is translated into the output curve I'd love to see it.


 

I honestly think those type of bezels provide Zero benefit to maintain lumen output. I think adding copper to the base where the LED sits is where all the attention should be put. Like the new coppper P60 hosts from Fivemega. More not less!!!

Maybe they do get rid of the heat, but that means the LED has to get hot for the bezel to work right? I rather keep it cool or spread the heat over more material. 

If anybody has a bezel like this send it in please. I can do a before and after test to prove or disprove if they actually work. 

bigC


----------



## ma_sha1

Agree with Big C, Fins are for "marketing", may be better looking but they are useless for heat dissipation w/o air flow, unless one wave it fast back & forth . Useful for Bikelight as it's in fast moving air. 

One of the old Thermo profile thread had busted the myth on finning of mag headThe finned one actually performed worth as it lost mass)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?115232-Mag-Thermal-Profile

P60 is no different, best is to hold it where it's hot & let it transfer heat away via. blood circulation, in such case a smooth surface provide larger contact area, thus faster heat transfer.


----------



## bigchelis

Now; regarding the Low Voltage input 2C XM-L by Lamdalight.com. This light has almost flat output and with such low voltage input I think its a record.

4.25A at tailcap at 1sec and 5.20A at tailcap at 10min. I used 2 NiMH C cells by Tenergy. I still need the alkaline OTF numbers and 1 NiMH C cell test too.

The 2C XM-L should be able to operate at similar output with just 1 NiMH C cell, we will have to see.

639.3 1 sec
639.3 30 sec
638.1 1 min
650.0 2 min
640.5 3 min
633.3 4 min
629.8 5 min
629.8 6 min
632.1 7 min
632.1 8 min
629.8 9 min
632.1 10 min


----------



## ti-force

I'm actually surprised that the output isn't higher, since the light has a larger head/reflector and is being driven at a higher drive current. My Quark Turbo made 600 OTF at 2.1A drive current.:thinking:


----------



## bigchelis

ti-force said:


> I'm actually surprised that the output isn't higher, since the light has a larger head/reflector and is being driven at a higher drive current. My Quark Turbo made 600 OTF at 2.1A drive current.:thinking:


 
*I think these type of drivers are usually less efficient*. 

I have a PCC built 1D Mag with 2.8A shinning beam driver and it nets me only 560~580 OTF lumens with Deep Reflector.

Then I tested another 3D Mag by PCC that is powered by the same 2.8a driver and deep reflector and its 680ish OTF. Both builds pull 2.88ish at the tailcap with identical voltage input.


Maybe some of the light escapes from the base and doesnt make it out the front since these builds use Deep rebel reflector. 


bigC


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> I honestly think those type of bezels provide Zero benefit to maintain lumen output. I think adding copper to the base where the LED sits is where all the attention should be put. Like the new coppper P60 hosts from Fivemega. More not less!!!
> 
> Maybe they do get rid of the heat, but that means the LED has to get hot for the bezel to work right? I rather keep it cool or spread the heat over more material.
> 
> If anybody has a bezel like this send it in please. I can do a before and after test to prove or disprove if they actually work.
> 
> bigC



Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> *I think these type of drivers are usually less efficient*.
> 
> I have a PCC built 1D Mag with 2.8A shinning beam driver and it nets me only 560~580 OTF lumens with Deep Reflector.
> 
> Then I tested another 3D Mag by PCC that is powered by the same 2.8a driver and deep reflector and its 680ish OTF. Both builds pull 2.88ish at the tailcap with identical voltage input.
> 
> 
> Maybe some of the light escapes from the base and doesnt make it out the front since these builds use Deep rebel reflector.
> 
> 
> bigC



It's really nice to have such large output with safer battery chemistry. I wish more manufacturers would build lights capable of over 600 lumens with no fear of explosions (RCR) or poison gas venting (IMR).


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> It's really nice to have such large output with safer battery chemistry. I wish more manufacturers would build lights capable of over 600 lumens with no fear of explosions (RCR) or poison gas venting (IMR).




This is the only light in existence or to ever exist that I know of, that will allows 10 plus watts of power from just 1V~3V input. I have seen other drivers that can generate 5 watts off .8V~3V, but thats about it.

So, for me to see over 10watts off just 2 or 1 NiMH C cell I am excited, but nature of the beast makes it less efficient or I been told.

bigC


----------



## Nitroz

bigchelis said:


> This is the only light in existence or to ever exist that I know of, that will allows 10 plus watts of power from just 1V~3V input. I have seen other drivers that can generate 5 watts off .8V~3V, but thats about it.
> 
> So, for me to see over 10watts off just 2 or 1 NiMH C cell I am excited, but nature of the beast makes it less efficient or I been told.
> 
> bigC


 
I can imagine that the cells are not to happy, but true flashaholics tend to abuse things. 

I am amazed to see this so soon. I thought it would be a little longer before 1 or 2 NiMh would be pushing this kind of output.

I wish I had one of those boost boards. I would love to run a 1 D Saft cutdown with a rear clicky.


----------



## elho

bigchelis said:


> I am giving up the Spheres. It just eats up too much of my time and I neglected other important things in my life.


 
Aww, sad news.  But I do understand the reasons for it very well (just look how long it has taken me to find the time to pick up reading this thread again).

Many, many thanks for the massive amounts of work and time that you invested into providing us with the numbers we were dying for!


----------



## elho

recDNA said:


> To my eyes in a C2 a P91 bulb looks brighter to me with 2 X IMR16340 than a Nailbender 2.8 amp 3 mode SST-50 on high with 18650. Am I nuts?


No, you are just mislead by your eyes. You even already know the answer:



recDNA said:


> Well the spill of the SST-50 may be brighter but the hotspot looks dimmer.


The hotspot of a P91 is indeed notably brighter, as can also be seen outdoor beamshots (P91 with 2x18500 and nailbender DD SST-50 there).
But that only means that it throws better, it has better Lux readings. Lumens take the complete light output into account and the hotspot is just a tiny spot compared to the large circle that the spill is (when projected on a wall or something).
A brigther hotspot just takes some more light in that tiny area, a brighter spill needs a lot of light spread out over that large area. Thus, for Lumens, a little brighter spill means more than a notably brighter hotspot.
And the SSt-50 drop-in just has that brighter spill (even notadly brighter ).

All that said, the P91 on two li-ion cells is still quite impressive and great to educate non- and newbie-flashaholics who think that it was because of the LED that bright flashlights exist. :naughty:


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Also, there is something about that High CRI, yellowish incan beam that seems to print over most LED light beams even when they have the same lux readings, also there can be more lumens in that same incan beam (wider hotspot) compared to many LED flashlight beams.

Bill


----------



## recDNA

elho said:


> No, you are just mislead by your eyes. You even already know the answer:
> 
> 
> The hotspot of a P91 is indeed notably brighter, as can also be seen outdoor beamshots (P91 with 2x18500 and nailbender DD SST-50 there).
> But that only means that it throws better, it has better Lux readings. Lumens take the complete light output into account and the hotspot is just a tiny spot compared to the large circle that the spill is (when projected on a wall or something).
> A brigther hotspot just takes some more light in that tiny area, a brighter spill needs a lot of light spread out over that large area. Thus, for Lumens, a little brighter spill means more than a notably brighter hotspot.
> And the SSt-50 drop-in just has that brighter spill (even notadly brighter ).
> 
> All that said, the P91 on two li-ion cells is still quite impressive and great to educate non- and newbie-flashaholics who think that it was because of the LED that bright flashlights exist. :naughty:



Yes, I'm running my P91 on 2 X 18500 these days so that explains why it looks brighter to my than my 2.8 amp SR50. I had no idea it threw so well. I was very impressed with the beamshot of the Neofab legion II. The huge flashlights and HID's are not my cup of tea but I'm always looking for something wicked bright that is no bigger than a 2 X D Maglite.


----------



## bigchelis

All my warm lights look brighter to my eyes and now I need to get a high CRI XP-G build put together to see what all the fuss is all about.

bigC


----------



## shieng

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*

I'll send you one sometime soon.

Link removed
Currently planning on building my own sphere.
I'll need a bit of advice, so that we can ensure mine is accurate.so cheap and nice.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*

shieng, are you serious? If your comments re sphere were not there this post would have been deleted as spam and you would have been banned. I will be watching further posts by you.

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*

I purchased a Quark Mini 2*AA because I read Ti-Force reviews and it seemed like a small EDC type light that can use readily available AA cells....



Quark Mini 2*AA____________XP-G R5______________2 NiMH Platinium____________157.1______1 sec___________________
.950mA at the tail_______________*______________*__________________________144.0______30 sec__________________
*_____________________*________________________________________________140.5___ ___1 min_________________
_______________________________________________________________________ 140.5______ 2 min____________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________140.5______ 3 min____________________
_______________________________________________________________________ 135.7______ 4 min____________________






Quark Mini 2*AA____________XP-G R5______________2 NiZn AA_________________202.4______1 sec___________________
1.125A at the tail_______________*______________*__________________________185.7______30 sec__________________
*_____________________*________________________________________________183.3___ ___1 min_________________
_______________________________________________________________________ 181.0______ 2 min____________________
__________________________________________________ _____________________178.6______ 3 min____________________
_______________________________________________________________________ 176.2______ 4 min____________________


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*

Here is what is next to test. Hopefully in 2~3 weeks.

PCC made the Huge Copper Heatsink for me. Then Lamdalights is making the SST-90 copper plug to mount the LED to copper!!! So, without PCC or Lamda I wouldn't be able to do this. Plus; I been wanting to see 1500 plus OTF from an L1 platform for a while now. 


Surefire L1 bezel
Copper heatsink
Copper to LED bonding
SST-90 3A then again at 6~8A via burn-in
Direct Drive off IMR 18650
Top heavy for sure
Sneak Peak


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*

Is that a Kroll tailcap switch? If so, I'm wondering how it will handle the current.

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Is that a Kroll tailcap switch? If so, I'm wondering how it will handle the current.
> 
> Bill


 
yes, the Kroll switch is not that great for high current. 

For OTF testing I will be using an E-18650 hosts with IMR 18650 cell. The tailcap has a McClicky and I am expecting melting a couple and then doing a Zero Tolerance somehow after.

bigC


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*



bigchelis said:


> The tailcap has a McClicky and I am expecting melting a couple and then doing a Zero Tolerance somehow after.
> 
> bigC



LOL. :thumbsup:

Bill


----------



## PCC

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*



bigchelis said:


> yes, the Kroll switch is not that great for high current.
> 
> For OTF testing I will be using an E-18650 hosts with IMR 18650 cell. The tailcap has a McClicky and I am expecting melting a couple and then doing a Zero Tolerance somehow after.
> 
> bigC



Glad to see that you can use that heatsink.

I know that McClickies are relatively cheap, but, you should save yourself the money and frustration by going straight to the ZT switch. It was a PITA to remove the melted switch in Steffan's DD SST-50 light that I fixed last year. If you need assistance with getting something made then please let me know.


----------



## recDNA

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*

I'd love to try one of those FETtie switches if they were more plentiful.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*



recDNA said:


> I'd love to try one of those FETtie switches if they were more plentiful.


 
I agree. Those FETtie switches are awesome. I will have a 6000 Lumen SST-? build in 1 month to test out that will have a FETtie switch due to the high current.

For now this is the business end of the SST-90 Pocket Rocket by Lamdalights(Kevin). I should have it tested by this Friday!!!! My only issues is the tailcap, but I might have to rig something together just to have some numbers for you all.


Look Mom "No STAR"


----------



## ti-force

*Re: Multifunctional Dog*

Definitely gonna bring a new meaning to the term "pocket rocket".


----------



## recDNA

That copper/led setup is a thing of beauty! You can't get 6 - 8 amps from that protected battery can you?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> That copper/led setup is a thing of beauty! You can't get 6 - 8 amps from that protected battery can you?


 
Nope. With that AW 17670 Protected cell it already does 5A at the tail and thats with no "burn in". 

For testing it will be an IMR 18650 which I suspect will generate 6A or more. I also have some 2/3A NiMH cells and 3 of these will give way more current then IMR 18650.

I really hope it breaks 1500 OTF, 10sec at least:candle:

bigC


----------



## recDNA

> I also have some 2/3A NiMH cells and 3 of these will give way more current then IMR 18650.



What are 2/3A NiMH cells?


----------



## bigchelis

recDNA said:


> What are 2/3A NiMH cells?


 
As most people know in terms of OTF lumens due to cell sag the NiMH chemistry is still KING. My SST-90 2D Mag and 3D Mag builds all perform much better when powered by NiMH cells vs. IMR 26650/IMR 26500. 

The 2/3A NiMH cells are rated for 30A and are about the size of a single CR123 Primary, but a tad shorter. I can probably fit 3 of them in a 18650 tube for testing or will make it happen without the tailcap. 

In my tests these little cells always produce more tailcap current then the IMR 18650 or even IMR 26500. They are so small and the voltage input is the same, yet they are awesome. I use them to break in SST type of emitters too. 4 of them can be used to overdrive SST-90 emitters to "burn it in" These are the cells I let another CPF member borow to burn in his 4Sevens S12 and from his thread he went from 3.5A to 7A after "burn in"

bigC


----------



## ebow86

I apologize in advance guys, this is an awful big thread and I may have missed what I'm looking for. I am looking for the OTF readings on the Malkoff M61W, particually running on primaries. I have the 4000K version, so I don't know if there's any difference between the different temp M61W's as far as output goes. Reason I ask is I have an M61W 4000K that gene rates at 220 lumens but I was thinking that looked a little conservative.


----------



## recDNA

bigchelis said:


> As most people know in terms of OTF lumens due to cell sag the NiMH chemistry is still KING. My SST-90 2D Mag and 3D Mag builds all perform much better when powered by NiMH cells vs. IMR 26650/IMR 26500.
> 
> The 2/3A NiMH cells are rated for 30A and are about the size of a single CR123 Primary, but a tad shorter. I can probably fit 3 of them in a 18650 tube for testing or will make it happen without the tailcap.
> 
> In my tests these little cells always produce more tailcap current then the IMR 18650 or even IMR 26500. They are so small and the voltage input is the same, yet they are awesome. I use them to break in SST type of emitters too. 4 of them can be used to overdrive SST-90 emitters to "burn it in" These are the cells I let another CPF member borow to burn in his 4Sevens S12 and from his thread he went from 3.5A to 7A after "burn in"
> 
> bigC


 

I've heard of 2/3 C before but not 2/3A. So these things would fit in a Solarforce L2p body tube right? And they are about 3 volts each? How do you charge them?


----------



## AlphaZen

bigchelis said:


> I will update the 1st page with a bunch of lights that I still havent put up there. They are mainly the quarks and other low lumen lights.


 
bigC,
Do you still have this data available? I have been trying to find the #'s on the Quark Mini AA with the 14500 and can't find it anywhere. I know you had it on there at one point. Thanks,
-zen


----------



## bigchelis

AlphaZen said:


> bigC,
> Do you still have this data available? I have been trying to find the #'s on the Quark Mini AA with the 14500 and can't find it anywhere. I know you had it on there at one point. Thanks,
> -zen


 
I might still have it. I think it was 300 OTF or a bit more since it goes Direct Drive....



The Malkoff M61W I have not tested, but Gene has a Sphere and he most likely reports the warm 1 or 2 minute reading so, his numbers are honest real OTF readings. The only times it varies is when some emitters have unusual low vF, but other than that what you see is what you get with him.

bigC


----------



## FroggyTaco

recDNA said:


> I've heard of 2/3 C before but not 2/3A. So these things would fit in a Solarforce L2p body tube right? And they are about 3 volts each? How do you charge them?



Umm they are 1.2V like all Nimh cells.

http://www.batteryjunction.com/intellect-1600-23a.html

Travis


----------



## bigchelis

FroggyTaco said:


> Umm they are 1.2V like all Nimh cells.
> 
> http://www.batteryjunction.com/intellect-1600-23a.html
> 
> Travis


 
Thanks Travis,

Thats exactly what they are and I use my Energizer Universal NiMH Charger.

bigC


----------



## bigchelis

Hi all,

Just a quick test with no cells topped off I am getting over 1050 OTF lumens at 8seconds. Tailcap current off IMR 18650 that was not topped off was 4A. 

Still; I can't do a full 3 minute test till I get a ZeroTolerance Tailcap. PCC informed me of how difficult it was last time to remove a melted one.


----------



## bigchelis

Here are the problems I foresee in hitting 1500 OTF lumens.


Needs a UCL lens = as much as 10% more OTF lumens
Needs Aluminum body. Currently; it has a Titanium
Needs a ZeroTolerance Tailcap = McClickies have melted on me at 4.5A or so.
bigC


----------



## warmurf

Incredible!! Love these SST-90s. You got my attention on mentioning a new light coming that is 5000+ lumens- please share with us alll more on that when it comes along!!


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## vestureofblood

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hi bigC,

Do you happen to have a LUX reading on a Quark AA2 with the R5? Also when you measure lux is there any special setup required or do you just fire the beam into to the censor @ 1M in a dark room? I am trying to calibrate my meter and quark AA2 is the only production light I have 

EDIT: I would also like to know if in the case of a focusable light am I suppose to focus the die projection @ 1M rather than where it would actually be if I was shooting as far as possible?


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## psychbeat

I'm pretty sure most people do the lux @5 meters and calculate what the 1meter would be from that since ALOT of lights need the space for the beam to focus. 

I don't know the formula off hand but I'm sure it's around here somewhere.


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## psychbeat

Hey guys- just a warning on over applying AS-5 to p60 modules. 

I guess some creeped into the threads of my Linger module that Big C tested and caused it to dim n flicker. I sent it back to NB thinking the driver was bad. 

I had it slathered pretty good - guess its a bad idea to go crazy with it.


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## Yoda4561

AS5 is both non conductive and slightly capacitive. It's also only useful between very tight, almost microscopic gaps. If you need to fill a gap thicker than a sheet of paper you need to use a metal tape or foil of some kind + the thermal grease.


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## psychbeat

^^ word.

If you look on some of the earlier pages in this thread Big C 
used quite a lot on some of the modules he was testing and 
did get improved results. I did the same but it eventually migrated
to the threads on the pill and caused my drop-in to flicker and 
dim. just a smidge on the outside of the copper tape is probably
best.


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## handlerchelsea

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*






They looked like rectangular shape to me, not square 
Just kidding.

Corvette6769,
The original version of PLI was also in the $57 range, but later on I lowered the price of PLI due to the camo color. Back then MC-E costs less than SST-50, the body of PLI also costs less than P-rocket. If it costs me more on this new product why should I sell it for less profit? I'm not in the business for charity, and I'm certainly not wealthy enough to do that. Just try to have my ends meet each day.

Some people like 5700k color, others like 6500k,3000k and 4500k. Not possible for me to make P-Rocket in all different color range and have everyone pleased. Like you said, you can find lights on DX cheaper and brighter, which is great. But Shiningbeam.com is not DX, we are an American company and we can't survive on 10% profit like the retailers do in China. If you are not happy with our products' quality and price, just simply don't buy them.


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## vestureofblood

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Hi BigC,

Are you still doing this type of testing?

Have you tested any XML U2 maglites? If so what is roughly the output @ 3A?

Thanks


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## PocketBeam

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

Seems this isn't being updated any more. Sadly. Maybe it is time to un-pin it?


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## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



PocketBeam said:


> Maybe it is time to un-pin it?



No.

Bill


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## elsayedhussin

Great work BC (& MrG too).

your hard work is very appreciated


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## cland72

bigchelis said:


> Surefire LX2________________Stock__________2 Surefire CR123__________249.2______1 sec_____376______9,400_______
> __________________________________________________ _____________ 245.4______30 sec________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 243.1______1 min_________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 239.2______2 min_________________________
> __________________________________________________ ______________ 237.7______3 min_________________________



As someone who recently purchased a used Surefire LX2, this makes me very happy. Looks like approx 240 lumens of output (initially) from a light rated for 200 lumens.


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## bigchelis

cland72 said:


> As someone who recently purchased a used Surefire LX2, this makes me very happy. Looks like approx 240 lumens of output (initially) from a light rated for 200 lumens.




The most impressive thing is that Surefire LX2 you can put a L1 XR-E bezel on it. Run a factory IMR 16650 cell and you will get close to 13.5K lux or so and about 300 real out the front lumens. That was my favorate Lego. Not very efficient since its direct drive and 1.6~1.8A but soo much lux from small bezel is cool.


best,
bigC


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## hkcvietnam

I believe this is the brightest LED light on Mag C. It doesn't throw as far as the SSR-50, but it looked to me about 1.5-2x the OTF lumens over the SSR-50/5Amp light, so I think it's going to be >1500 OTF at least
I think so


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## jon_slider

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*

I am not having any luck searching for lumen readings for the 2014 Fenix E05 aluminum, the Olight i3s, and the Thrunite Ti3 Titanium
can you link me to actual lumen tests for those 3 lights please? Im looking to see the readings with standard Duracel aaa alkaline batteries
thanks!


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## RickZ

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



rickypanecatyl said:


> Josh did you send your Deree VBS sst-50 in for testing? I might be interested in it depending on the #'s
> 
> Is it a different tool that tests lumens and lux?



Technically it depends on how you measure it. Sphere readings like this won't test for lux, but lumens can be measured the same way lux is, if you basically average the intensity and size. Technically it is more accurate to do sphere but 2dimensional readings for lumens are possible. To save time, I believe ansi uses that measurement, not a sphere. 

I know the haters gonna start, but lumens and lux are essentially the same thing without being related at all.
Because it is the same thing, you can take it and measure it using the same tool. Different ways of measuring lumens greatly distorts the numbers, which are further distorted by atmosphere. Some lights are theoretically measured based on LED since measuring takes too much time.


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## SemiMan

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



RickZ said:


> To save time, I believe ansi uses that measurement, not a sphere. .



Ansi uses lux, because that is what the measurement is .... at what distance can you achieve a certain lux value. Sphere testing of a flashlight is great for specs, but not terribly useful on its own for a flashlight.





RickZ said:


> I know the haters gonna start, but lumens and lux are essentially the same thing without being related at all.
> Because it is the same thing, you can take it and measure it using the same tool. Different ways of measuring lumens greatly distorts the numbers, which are further distorted by atmosphere. Some lights are theoretically measured based on LED since measuring takes too much time.



- Are haters knowledgeable people?
- You can't use the same tool. One requires a meter to measure the amount of light in a defined area. One require the amount of light in a defined area AND a precision method to take multiple measurements over a large spherical surface. It's like saying you can measure speed with a stop-watch ... or with a tape measure. Of course you need both to measure speed.
- Different ways of measuring lumens DOES NOT distort the numbers. There are right ways, and wrong ways, and numbers are not distorted, they are right or wrong ... and not impacted by the atmosphere unless foggy or polluted
- Lux and Lumens are about the same as mass and density ... i.e. not at all really.

Semiman


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## Lumencrazy

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



RickZ said:


> Technically it depends on how you measure it. Sphere readings like this won't test for lux, but lumens can be measured the same way lux is, if you basically average the intensity and size. Technically it is more accurate to do sphere but 2dimensional readings for lumens are possible. To save time, I believe ansi uses that measurement, not a sphere.
> 
> I know the haters gonna start, but lumens and lux are essentially the same thing without being related at all.
> Because it is the same thing, you can take it and measure it using the same tool. Different ways of measuring lumens greatly distorts the numbers, which are further distorted by atmosphere. Some lights are theoretically measured based on LED since measuring takes too much time.




??????? Whoa!!! Is this a new science? Better contact Cree, Osram, Phillips and etc., and let them know they are all doing it wrong.


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## RickZ

It's like talking to college kids. You guys completely agree with the truth in my comment, but don't know how to read it in a way you understand. Sorry we are having a hard time communicating. If I make some videos, I'll show you what I mean.


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## RickZ

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



SemiMan said:


> Ansi uses lux, because that is what the measurement is .... at what distance can you achieve a certain lux value. Sphere testing of a flashlight is great for specs, but not terribly useful on its own for a flashlight.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Are haters knowledgeable people?
> - You can't use the same tool. One requires a meter to measure the amount of light in a defined area. One require the amount of light in a defined area AND a precision method to take multiple measurements over a large spherical surface. It's like saying you can measure speed with a stop-watch ... or with a tape measure. Of course you need both to measure speed.
> - Different ways of measuring lumens DOES NOT distort the numbers. There are right ways, and wrong ways, and numbers are not distorted, they are right or wrong ... and not impacted by the atmosphere unless foggy or polluted
> - Lux and Lumens are about the same as mass and density ... i.e. not at all really.
> 
> Semiman



First quote, then wtf are ansi 'lumens', and for the rest, try reading my comment slowly, and don't skip over major parts of the sentences that you completely over-elaborated on and went on and on to take a couple hours explaining what took me 5 seconds.

Further the "new science" is called common sense, you take light-all-over-the-place, and turn it into an average, and bam, one unit to another. It's like taking mass, and roughly estimating density based on knowledge the object is spherical and how much pressure is on the ground the object is sitting on.

And yes, my point well proven, haters weren't smart this time.


Please stop being so ridiculously negative in your reaction to my comments. It's become an extreme nuisance.


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## sticktodrum

Subbed.


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## Bullzeyebill

Easy guys. Attack the post, not the poster.

Bill


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## SemiMan

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



RickZ said:


> Further the "new science" is called common sense, you take light-all-over-the-place, and turn it into an average, and bam, one unit to another. It's like taking mass, and roughly estimating density based on knowledge the object is spherical and how much pressure is on the ground the object is sitting on.
> 
> Please stop being so ridiculously negative in your reaction to my comments. It's become an extreme nuisance.



- As you have stated, lux and lumens ARE NOT the same thing just like mass and density are not. One is a base unit, one is not and you cannot convert from one to the other without a ton of other knowledge.

For your knowledge, which appears to be lacking, the ANSI FL1 standard, which is for flashlights uses BOTH lumens in an integrating sphere and beam distance which is based on at what distance is the lux at a given standard. There is not magic and knowing one provides you with no knowledge for the other.

Semiman


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## Bullzeyebill

*Re: Actual Lumen Readings by bigchelis in 10.5in Sphere.*



SemiMan said:


> For your knowledge, which appears to be lacking, ...........
> Semiman



Enough of this nonsense. Re-read CPF Rule 4. I'm not going to link it for you. 

Bill


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