# Why some sellers don't sell their lights outside US?



## lengendcpf (Oct 17, 2009)

Sorry to ask, saw a lot of things in the CPFM, but hate it when find some a line, "CONUS ONLY"..

Yes, I stay in Singapore.

Is there a reason why some sellers don't post outside US?

Isn't it the same thing, just go to the post office, write down the address and drop it into the mailbox?

Regards


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## EngrPaul (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



lengendcpf said:


> Isn't it the same thing, just go to the post office, write down the address and drop it into the mailbox?
> 
> Regards


 
For some people, the post office may be 10 or more miles away.

Then you have to go during work hours, take time off of work.

Wait in line, fill out forms, and lie about it being a gift.

It costs a lot more to ship overseas. Then take the increased risk of delivery failure.

Sell to the USA? Print a label from your computer, walk out to the mailbox. Package will get there safe 99.9% of the time, and my conscience is clear.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Customs, scammers and hassle. You can click and send parcels international using flat rate boxes too. But you run the risk of getting the box ran over by a tractor anyways.


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## lengendcpf (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



EngrPaul said:


> For some people, the post office may be 10 or more miles away.
> 
> Then you have to go during work hours, take time off of work.
> 
> ...


 
Isn't overseas shipping, also can just print out a label, walk to the mailbox and drop it? Cause I also received such parcels too.

Of course, overseas shipping is more expensive, but the buyers will pay for it anyway..


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## EngrPaul (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



lengendcpf said:


> Isn't overseas shipping, also can just print out a label, walk to the mailbox and drop it?


 
For USPS, you can print out the mailing label and custom forms, however you must get the customs box attachment and special packaging from the post office and present the package to them in person, if you are a residential customer.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



EngrPaul said:


> For USPS, you can print out the mailing label and custom forms, however you must get the customs box attachment and special packaging from the post office and present the package to them in person, if you are a residential customer.



weird, I recieved a package that way from telno_cowboy and he lives like miles from the post office.


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## lengendcpf (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



EngrPaul said:


> For USPS, you can print out the mailing label and custom forms, however you must get the customs box attachment and special packaging from the post office and present the package to them in person, if you are a residential customer.


 
So meanng, as long as overseas shipping, the sender needs to make a trip to the post office??

If like this, I understand, why "CONUS ONLY"..

Paul, thanks for explaining to me..


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## EngrPaul (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

@Random,

When you are a RESIDENTIAL customer, it's much different than if you have a customer account or ship internationally on a regular basis through USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc.

When I ask an overseas buyer to pay the real cost I incur to ship the package, they always get mad and say nevermind. So I stopped offering it altogether.


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## [email protected] (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



EngrPaul said:


> @Random,
> 
> When you are a RESIDENTIAL customer, it's much different than if you have a customer account or ship internationally on a regular basis through USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc.
> 
> When I ask an overseas buyer to pay the real cost I incur to ship the package, they always get mad and say nevermind. So I stopped offering it altogether.



ah I see. I don't see why people complain. Most of the time a flat rate box or envelop will cover it.


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## lengendcpf (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Just to show our mailbox in Sngapore.







It have 2 slots, one for local and one for overseas.

As long, we know the costs and affixed the right amount of postage, we can just drop it inside, without going to the post office.

Unless it's for big item, we can't use this.. But we can go to the post office to drop bigger items into bigger bin..

Unless it's super big, then we must talk to the staff there..


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## EngrPaul (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

"With the exceptions noted below, a mailer may not deposit a First-Class Mail International item that requires a completed customs form into a collection box, lobby drop, Automated Postal Center (APC) drop, Postal Service lobby, Postal Service dock, or other unattended location. *Mailers must present such **items to a Postal Service employee at a Post Office facility or other location **as designated by the postmaster.* The Postal Service returns improperly presented items to the sender for proper entry and acceptance."

Source: http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/immc2_020.htm


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## EngrPaul (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



lengendcpf said:


> Just to show our mailbox in Sngapore.


 
Here's my "Other Countries" mailbox...


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## Black Rose (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I don't know what's more maddening, sellers that specify CONUS only or sellers that will ship from the US to anywhere in the world but Canada.
That's an odd one to me :thinking:


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## lengendcpf (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



Black Rose said:


> I don't know what's more maddening, sellers that specify CONUS only or sellers that will ship from the US to anywhere in the world but Canada.
> That's an odd one to me :thinking:



Haha..


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## LumenHound (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



EngrPaul said:


> For USPS, you can print out the mailing label and custom forms, however you must get the customs box attachment and special packaging from the post office and present the package to them in person, if you are a residential customer.


 
That's odd. Section 123.5 Place of Mailing reads...

*123.5 Place of Mailing*





Except as specified in items a and b below, a mailer may_ not_ deposit a postal item that requires a completed customs declaration form into a collection box, lobby drop, Automated Postal Center® (APC®) drop, postal lobby, postal dock, or other unattended location. In addition, items that require a customs declaration are precluded from pickup service as defined in 215.3, 225.2, and 235.2. Mailers must present such items to a Postal Service employee at a Post Office facility or other location as designated by the postmaster. The Postal Service will return improperly presented items to the sender for proper entry and acceptance. Exceptions are as follows:
Express Mail International® shipments paid through an Express Mail corporate account (EMCA).
Express Mail International and Priority Mail International™ items that have the mailing label, customs declaration (including an electronic round stamp), and postage prepared and paid online through Click-N-Ship® service on usps.com, through the eBay/PayPal integrated shipping solution, or through an authorized PC Postage® vendor Web site.
 
That b exception sound clear to me. Use USPS's click-n-ship or other authorized web site and your good to go. Print, stick on bubble envelope or small packet, then drop in corner mailbox. What could be easier?

About 3 years ago I spent 15 minutes talking on the phone to a USPS customer service rep about various shipping levels from the US and when I asked then about US residents always having to go to their local post office to mail International stuff I was told that that's just not the case.

I was also told that it was always a good idea to phone the customer service folks at USPS for clarification on any and all of the mailing regulations. I was given the impression by the USPS rep that many of the staff of small local post offices are not always up to date on what can and can't be shipped and that if there was ever a problem then the customer should immediately ask the clerk to call the customer service hotline for clarification.


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## jtr1962 (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



EngrPaul said:


> Here's my "Other Countries" mailbox...


Reminds me of my local PO. It takes an hour to get serviced on a good day, three hours on average, and don't ask during Christmas holiday (i.e. if you get on line at 8 AM you _might_ be serviced before the doors close at 5 PM-the line can stretch for 5 blocks outside the door). Lines like this are the reason many people here say CONUS only.

Note however that I have dropped small padded envelopes with customs forms into the mailbox and not had any problems. But anything larger than 13 ounces, either domestic or international, _must_ be mailed in person.


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## TITAN1833 (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

The only thing I can add here is:If you print a label online that is not proof of posting,
here in the UK for proof of posting you've got to take a trip to the PO and get the cert signed and stamped,
without that any claim for Insurance would be moot as they ask for the cert as proof you shipped the item,
who knows anyone could print a label but not physically ship it


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## EngrPaul (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



LumenHound said:


> \
> b. Express Mail International and Piority Mail International™ items that have the mailing label, customs declaration (including an electronic round stamp), and postage prepared and paid online through Click-N-Ship® service on usps.com, through the eBay/PayPal integrated shipping solution, or through an authorized PC Postage® vendor Web site.
> 
> 
> That b exception sound clear to me.


 
Express/Priority Mail International is more expensive than First Class International, which most buyers want because it's cheaper. Like I said, most sellers don't want to pay the high shipping costs.


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## addictedmatt (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Shipping cost, lack of tracking, time spent at post office. Last time I sent a light to Australia it cost $56, and I spent half an hour in the Post office. They didn't know what forms I needed, ( I filled out three different forms before the decided which was correct ) and then gave me a price of almost $100. I asked him to find something cheaper, and after 5 minutes and asking the other workers ( we had to wait for them to finish with their customers) he came up with $56. It isn't worth the hassle for a $30 light, however when asked nicely in a PM, I have always agreed to ship overseas, and to Canada.


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## LumenHound (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



lengendcpf said:


> Sorry to ask, saw a lot of things in the CPFM, but hate it when find some a line, "CONUS ONLY"..
> 
> Yes, I stay in Singapore.
> 
> ...


Web based postal cost to ship up to 4 pounds (1.8 kilos) inside a free USPS supplied Priority Mail small flat rate box that's 5-3/8 inches by 8-1/2 inches by 1-3/4 inches (13.7 cm by 21.6 cm by 4.4 cm) comes to $12.30 US to ship half way around the world to Singapore.

USPS customers can get the small flat rate boxes free at any post office or they can even have a case of ten boxes shipped to their home at no cost whatsoever to them by the USPS.

I think this amount of shipping cost isn't outlandish so long as there is $25 US or more worth of stuff to be shipped. 
It would be good for a multi-item purchase like a small flashlight, 2 or 3 emitters or stars, and a few optics or reflectors. An order like that would easily fit into a small Priority Mail flat rate box


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## tx101 (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

At the end of the day, it is up to the seller whether he/she wants to ship
overseas.
What mystifies me is why is it so much hassle for the Post Office 
*staff* to get the right Customs forms and the right method of shipping ?
Is that not supposed to be their job ?


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## flashfan (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I go to the US post office periodically, and at the branch I go to, a lot of stuff is automated. The clerk punches in the destination, and the various options/prices for shipping pop right up. So far (knock on wood), I haven't had any problems with wrong customs forms and the like.

What bothers me is that the post office _changes_ rules and fees so often these days, it's hard to keep up. In the "old days," it seemed like rates and rules stayed the same for years and years at a time. Now, you know it will change at least once a year. 

What I find useful is the USPS website. It takes extra time, but when mailing something new/different, I've usually been able to find the information I need before going to the post office (so no unpleasant surprises). I don't do click-n-ship, but do know that extra discounts apply. Also very convenient.


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## Barbarian (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



tx101 said:


> At the end of the day, it is up to the seller whether he/she wants to ship
> overseas.
> What mystifies me is why is it so much hassle for the Post Office
> *staff* to get the right Customs forms and the right method of shipping ?
> Is that not supposed to be their job ?


Good point, but the average postal worker has very little intelligence or pride in their job. There are many reasons why the USPS lose money quicker than a drunk at a casino, but stupid employees has to be at the top of the list. I know several carriers and they do nothing but complain about their workplace, and in particular, their supervisors. I will stop with my comments here as I can go on and on about the USPS.


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## jtr1962 (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



Barbarian said:


> Good point, but the average postal worker has very little intelligence or pride in their job. There are many reasons why the USPS lose money quicker than a drunk at a casino, but stupid employees has to be at the top of the list. I know several carriers and they do nothing but complain about their workplace, and in particular, their supervisors. I will stop with my comments here as I can go on and on about the USPS.


To add to that, what about the famous "Post Office shuffle"? At my local PO (and many others according to people I know), no matter how long the lines are or how few windows are open, the employees go about their business with a distinct lack of urgency. I'm not talking about keeping things slow enough to avoid silly mistakes. Rather, after they weigh your package, they'll sloooooowly shuffle over and drop it in the outgoing mail bag. Ditto for any other movements they make. I understand not moving so fast that you make silly mistakes, but most of the time the employees seem to be in slow motion. But yes, one of the major reasons USPS is losing money is indeed _some_ of their employees. Not all by any stretch, but it seems those who deal directly with customers are purposely slow, incompetent, uncaring, and generally go through their work as if in a daze. Now I know for the most part working at the PO is a boring, very repetitive job. And maybe that's the problem. Instead of having everyone do only one thing for _years_, maybe employees should be moved around the system a bit. One week you're a package handler, next week you run a window, after that maybe you deliver mail, etc. Besides giving employees a better idea of how the entire operation works, it would alleviate the boredom and stagnation which I suspect is the root of the problem of uncaring, lackadaisical employees. Actually, lots of businesses _used to _ do exactly this. Nowadays it seems they would rather keep someone doing the exact same thing for their entire career.


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## 1wrx7 (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I use three different PO's depending on what I'm doing. The one in my town that I have to go to to pick up packages if they have delivery confirmation is very busy and slow It's also about 6 miles farther away than the closest one to me. I use the closest one to me on my own time... they have great service:thumbsup: I also have one right near my work that is very convient for me except for one employee... I have several words to describe him, but I'll keep them to myself. I heard some of the women I work with talking about someone at the PO badly... and I knew who they were talking about immediately:shakehead

I've never had a problem with shipping to non US CPF members, but I've used the online international quoted rates and have had to come out of pocket to cover actual shipping costs. Anything but first class type shipping is rediculously expensive. When I sell things I list my price as shipped in the CON US. I'm useually willing to ship international at the buyers cost, but when I do I have no seller protection through PayPal:thinking: Thankfully all my packages have made it to were they were going and 98-99% of CPF are good people. I still wonder if this is the time I get screwed whenever I ship international.


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

All I know is that us non-US CPFer's miss out on a lot of cool stuff!

:nana:


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## Curious_character (Oct 17, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I frequently send small packages all over the world. As long as it weighs less than 13 oz., I can put it in my residential mailbox for pickup, drop it into a curbside mail box, or drop it into the drive-through box at the post office just like any other mail. The only thing I have to do different from U.S. shipping is to attach a customs tag that takes a couple of minutes to fill out -- and of course use more postage. For packages less than 4 lb., you use the small customs form 2976. I pick up a handful at the post office once in a while to keep a supply on hand, but you can probably order them from USPS via the web if an occasional trip to the P.O. is too much hassle.

Anything over 13 oz. has to be hand delivered to a postal clerk at the post office, not to your residential carrier, if the postage is in the form of stamps instead of a postal meter. (Don't get me started on the stupidity of that rule. But it *is* the rule.) This is true for both U.S. and foreign shipments.

There aren't any reasonably priced options, though, for sending something overseas with tracking or delivery confirmation. I've had very few packages go astray, but one with a customs tag saying "flashlight" might not do so well when sent to less developed countries. That's the real down side to shipping overseas.

c_c


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## Monocrom (Oct 18, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



jtr1962 said:


> Reminds me of my local PO. It takes an hour to get serviced on a good day, three hours on average, and don't ask during Christmas holiday (i.e. if you get on line at 8 AM you _might_ be serviced before the doors close at 5 PM-the line can stretch for 5 blocks outside the door). Lines like this are the reason many people here say CONUS only.


 
That's why I never used the post office in the old neighborhood. Flushing went downhill nearly 20 years ago. :thumbsdow

I actually drive out to the post office located inside Roosevelt Field mall. Sometimes it gets busy, but usually I'm in & out in literally 5 minutes.

As far as "CONUS Only" goes, some sellers are afraid of getting scammed.


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## Crenshaw (Oct 20, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



DimeRazorback said:


> All I know is that us non-US CPFer's miss out on a lot of cool stuff!
> 
> :nana:



we sure do...

although it doesnt hurt to ask the seller if the item isnt moving, and you're one of the few that wants it. 

I ship almost exclusively by registered mail, cos i can never figure out how much in stamps to affix anyway

Crenshaw


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## Kiessling (Oct 20, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Usually, asking nicely will work despite the dreaded "Conus only". Also, paying for the expense of money AND time is a solution. After all, the risk of being scammed by CPFers is rather minimal.
bernie


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## LuxLuthor (Oct 20, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

You would think that the USA would have a very easy mailing system setup for overseas, but they don't for the cheaper first class methods.

As others have said, I can do a small flat rate box or envelope sent priority mail at $13.50 and have all the customs questions answered, label printed, and hand it to my daily postman who comes to my home.

For the cheap first class, I have to fill out a manual form and then take it to the post office...which wouldn't be the end of the world, except that the 3 post offices within a half hour of driving time all have horrible service. They have huge long lines and maybe 1 or 2 clerk windows open. If you get one person from a law office who is sending 100+ certified mail envelopes out, that will tie up that window for at least 30-40 mins. They don't call to the back for more support when these blockages in the system happen, and they show no human concern about how long the lines get or how upset the customers.

The last time I HAD to use the Post Office, including the time leaving my house, finding parking, paying for parking, waiting to mail my box and drive home took a total of 1 hour 45 minutes.....but it is very frustrating time which makes it seem like days.

Basically if someone wants to buy something from me overseas/Canada/Mexico, I ONLY send Priority Mail rate, or not at all. I don't care....and it's not personal against any of the members here.


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## xcel730 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I'm in the NYC vicinity and all the post office that are conveniently located near my home or work is overcrowded with customers and have small number of staffs that take their sweet time working. On number of ocassions, I tried to avoid the crowds by going to the post office 30 minutes before they were opened, but still, there were a few people that were ahead of me waiting. 

Sometimes I would eat the cost and ship my items via FedEx or UPS. However, FedEx charges ridiculous amount for international shipping. Anything than weighs more than a paperclip cost over $100+ for international shipping.


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## dano (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Here's my two big reasons for selling CONUS, only:

1. Asking me to lie on Customs forms, which I won't do.

2. The USPS forms and wait time to process those forms at the P.O., though, now, the USPS wants all those forms filled out via internet, and a printed confirmation has to be brought to the post office.


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## Cahl (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



dano said:


> Here's my two big reasons for selling CONUS, only:
> 
> 1. Asking me to lie on Customs forms, which I won't do.
> 
> 2. The USPS forms and wait time to process those forms at the P.O., though, now, the USPS wants all those forms filled out via internet, and a printed confirmation has to be brought to the post office.


1. Have you ever been told "if you don't lie, I won't buy it!"? I won't complain when people write a lower price on the package, but if they don't, well I have no problems with that. It *is* against the law 

2. I can understand this, if the post office is "out of the way". But if the option is not getting any buyers .. or filling out a few forms .. well ..

I never knew you guys could just print and wait for pickup. Here we have to go to the post office no matter what 

Our mailboxes are *a lot* smaller than in Singapore:


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## Casper507 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Other than lights there are many things you would need a license to ship to singapore or any other country. For instance I saw a Aimpoint M3 gun sight on ebay and a customer asked how much shipping was to Taiwan. An Aimpoint sight has protected technology in it and must have a license to be shipped out of the US declaring things such as use/end user etc.


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## gadget_lover (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

My reason is vary simple.

If I have to sue to get my money (from the insurer or the buyer) then I want to be able to do it in a local US court.

If I ship to Singapore and the buyer is a flake (it happens) then it's very difficult to resolve the problem.

Conus as opposed to "US"? Well, I don't know the laws in the territories that are not in the states, and there are so few Hawaiian and Alaskans that they can be handled on a case by case basis.

My last ebay sale was supposed to be US only. The address I shipped to ended up being a remailer. The $400 item was shipped out of country without my knowledge. I used PayPal and insurance since they would provide some assurance if the deal went bad. The seller did eventually try to get me to refund the money, but I was able to provide 10 Megapxel close-ups of the item including serial number.  He quietly disappeared. 

Daniel


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## kramer5150 (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I have received and sent FAR to many open/empty packages with contents missing. I don't trust foreign or domestic customs.


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## Cahl (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



kramer5150 said:


> I have received and sent FAR to many open/empty packages with contents missing. I don't trust foreign or domestic customs.


By that logic you should never bring any luggage when you go on vacation 



> According to the Ponemon Institute, more than 10,000 laptops are reported lost at the 36 largest airports in the US each week


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## dano (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



Cahl said:


> 1. Have you ever been told "if you don't lie, I won't buy it!"? I won't complain when people write a lower price on the package, but if they don't, well I have no problems with that. It *is* against the law
> 
> *Yup...several times, or the buyer disappears.*
> 
> ...


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## Cahl (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Wow, several times? Well, then they are jerks. Could ask for address-verified Paypal only I suppose .. not that it is any guarantee, but it will help.

So the reason we do not get any packages .. we are jerks, hehe


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## 65535 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



Cahl said:


> Wow, several times? Well, then they are jerks. Could ask for address-verified Paypal only I suppose .. not that it is any guarantee, but it will help.
> 
> So the reason we do not get any packages .. we are jerks, hehe



I think he means dishonest customs and shipping personnel.


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## wykeite (Jan 13, 2010)

*International shipping*

There seems to be a great reluctance by some U.S. members selling items to ship overseas, I'd like to be able to understand this.

I've shipped many things to the States and it's no more hassle than shipping within the U.K., the only different thing is that I have to spend half a minute filling in a CN22 and I keep plenty of those at home.

Does USPS put extra hurdles in the way of overseas shipments?

With the cost of items sold here being 1.5 to 2x the price of things in the U.S. we potentially will pay more for used or even new articles. It pains me sometimes to see items for sale (CONUS only) unsold for days, undergoing numerous price drops when I would gladly pay the initial asking price along with any extra shipping costs. Just seems economically unsound to me that the seller is prepared to lose that money.

The last one that I PM'd asking to ship overseas suggested I use a forwarding service. It sold for $50 less than the original asking price that I was happy with.

This isn't a rant, I'd just like a better understanding. Lost in the mail doesn't really work, it's very rare.

Thanks guyslovecpf


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## Niconical (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

For post sent within the USA senders can hand their package to the postal worker at their home or work, but for international they have to go to the post office. This can be a problem for many as the USA is a big place and outside of the cities the nearest post office could be a long drive away. Also it seems USPS offices sometimes have long queues and waiting times. Another reason is familiarity. You might be used to posting to other countries, but most people aren't, and probably don't have the time to learn. 

There will of course always be some who don't want to ship out of the USA because they're not aware that there actually is anything outside of the USA, other than signs on the map saying "here be dragons", but that attitude is rare on CPF, and is hardly exclusive to Americans anyway. 

After a while though (well, I do anyway) you get a feel for the sellers who do and don't, and tend to gravitate to their threads if you see one. 

If you want something on the Marketplace that is marked as CONUS only, it doesn't hurt to ask. If the answer is no, move on politely to the next thread


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## CathastrophiX (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

+1


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## Black Rose (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



Niconical said:


> There will of course always be some who don't want to ship out of the USA because they're not aware that there actually is anything outside of the USA, other than signs on the map saying "here be dragons", but that attitude is rare on CPF, and is hardly exclusive to Americans anyway.




Nice one Nick


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## Eric242 (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

I do understand a person doesn´t want to wait in line for half a hour - even though I don´t understand why USPS postal offices do that to their customers. I´ve never had to wait any longer than 10 minutes and that´s quite rare to happen. It´s either the USPS employees doing a messy job or USPS doesn´t employ enough poeple to get the job done in time. Sometimes it is the "additional paperwork" for international shipping that keeps the seller from shipping international. Even though with the stuff shipped from one CPF member to the next CPF member you just have to use the CN22 form and it takes about 10 seconds to fill it out. 

Anyway, after all it is everyones right to keep their sales lokal for whatever reason. I respect that even though I don´t understand the reasons sometimes.

Eric


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

There have been many topics on this subject, and why people don't want to deal with the US Post Offices in person. Do a search. In a nutshell, it takes me 15 minutes each way driving to the post office, then there is at most 1 or 2 windows open, and often 15-20 people in line. You get one person with a bunch of certified letters from a legal office, or a shopping cart full of boxes, and you could be waiting in line for over an hour. Then there is an obnoxious and extrememly efficient city parking ticket troll making chalk marks on car tires, and who takes great joy in passing out $40 tickets for being in your spot for longer than the posted 30 minutes. I was getting in my car as he kept writing up the ticket a couple years ago.

It has nothing to do with the filling out the paperwork form.


----------



## LumenHound (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

Wykeite, read through this thread from last October. 
It will shed a fair bit of light on the subject.


----------



## Curious_character (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

I do a lot of international shipping.

First off, you don't need to wait in line at the P.O. unless your parcel weighs more than 13 oz. If it does, you have to wait in line even to send it domestically unless you use a postage meter. I just attach the appropriate customs sticker (Form 2976 for items weighing less than 4 pounds) and put it in my mail box or drop it in the box at the post office. So the only difference in sending small parcels internationally is a couple of minutes to fill out the customs form (pick up a handful next time you're at the P.O.) and a bit more postage.

UPS and FedEx require several copies of a commercial invoice to be enclosed, and they have some rules about what can be sent in an envelope or box. I find it to be a lot more hassle than USPS but, of course, you do get tracking and guaranteed delivery.

c_c


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



Curious_character said:


> I do a lot of international shipping.
> 
> First off, you don't need to wait in line at the P.O. unless your parcel weighs more than 13 oz. If it does, you have to wait in line even to send it domestically unless you use a postage meter. I just attach the appropriate customs sticker (Form 2976 for items weighing less than 4 pounds) and put it in my mail box or drop it in the box at the post office. So the only difference in sending small parcels internationally is a couple of minutes to fill out the customs form (pick up a handful next time you're at the P.O.) and a bit more postage.
> 
> ...



Apparently there is variability among the various PO branches. I have confirmed numerous times asking my local postman, & other temps that fill in, and calling the local P.O., that they *WILL NOT ACCEPT* a First Class package (under or over 13oz) that has the manually filled out 2976 Customs form, even if I personally hand it to them. It MUST be taken to the local Post Office. --this form is the problem:







They *do accept their "Click-N-Ship" Priority Mail labeled *(domestic & interantional) boxes that have the customs info printed and incorporated on the label which I sign and date (and which I use domestically if more than 13oz). There is not a Click-N-Ship option at the USPS website for First Class Mail.

See this post by Paul from that other thread which seems to reinforce my experience.



EngrPaul said:


> "With the exceptions noted below, a mailer may not deposit a First-Class Mail International item that requires a completed customs form into a collection box, lobby drop, Automated Postal Center (APC) drop, Postal Service lobby, Postal Service dock, or other unattended location. *Mailers must present such **items to a Postal Service employee at a Post Office facility or other location **as designated by the postmaster.* The Postal Service returns improperly presented items to the sender for proper entry and acceptance."
> 
> Source: http://pe.usps.gov/text/imm/immc2_020.htm


----------



## Curious_character (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

Egad, right you are. I've been getting away with it for years, and in fact dropped one off at the P.O. yesterday -- please don't tell my local P.O.!

c_c


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Jan 13, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

Where I live in Australia if I want to post anything, be it letter or package I have to go to the post office so I guess I'm used to going there. 

No way would our postman ever accept anything going the other way, he just delivers.

From the descriptions here I can see why you blokes don't like to do it but fortunately some of your businesses get the process dead right and that's probably why 4sevens is the only US business I've ever bought any torches and parts off. No questions about international shipping, the shipping is included in the price and I just order, pay and the goods come to my door half a world away, same goes with a number of the hong kong torch sellers.

I've now got so used to that ever-so-easy "international shipping included" process that now whenever a US torch website has a process to go through for an international shipping quote I just close the page and don't bother with that seller or product. So even buyers can get used to doing things the easy way and not be bothered when there's a bit of extra legwork.

Something I've been wondering is whether US buyers also have an "international shipping" aversion to actually buying something from overseas sellers on the CPF Market Place? Like if I wanted to sell a torch I didn't like, would I basically only be advertising to Aussie buyers or would US ones think about it too?


----------



## Niconical (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> Something I've been wondering is whether US buyers also have an "international shipping" aversion to actually buying something from overseas sellers on the CPF Market Place? Like if I wanted to sell a torch I didn't like, would I basically only be advertising to Aussie buyers or would US ones think about it too?


 
Some might be put off buying from you due to the time it would take for them to get their package (we all want our flashlight stuff yesterday), and some might hesitate depending on the declared value and concerns about it getting held up. However, I've not seen much evidence on the MP of buyers intentionally avoiding a seller just based on location or nationality. In general, whatever you're selling, there will be a buyer (if the price is right) and that buyer could be from anywhere.


----------



## Vesper (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

Shipping a lot of stuff, my wife's business stopped shipping outside US for the most part. The endless problems with customs, lost and stalled packages, lack of trackability and fraud, and the extra time and effort don't make it worth the hassle. UPS and Fed EX are prohibitively expensive as an alternative. So some just sense or have experienced this and don't want to go there. Plus, there be dragons.


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

Customs seem to cause so many problems for some countries don't they. I guess we're lucky, Australian Customs don't touch any package worth a thousand or less.


----------



## Niconical (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

Same here. Unless you write "contents: drugs 'n' guns" on the box, Spanish customs don't seem interested in personal packages. 
Some Euro countries do get hit hard though.


----------



## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> Customs seem to cause so many problems for some countries don't they. I guess we're lucky, Australian Customs don't touch any package worth a thousand or less.



I've had a couple of packages opened for inspection but so far nothing's been confiscated and I haven't had to pay any duty. My Spy007 box arrived a bit beaten up with packing tape wrapped around the openings and sure enough, there was a customs inspection form inside the box. I also bought a Caly3 which was inspected by customs but the knife was deemed legal (I asked the seller to tighten the pivot before shipping). I think Aussie customs are doing a good job and don't worry about my packages getting lost in the mail.



> Something I've been wondering is whether US buyers also have an "international shipping" aversion to actually buying something from overseas sellers on the CPF Market Place? Like if I wanted to sell a torch I didn't like, would I basically only be advertising to Aussie buyers or would US ones think about it too?



I've noticed most buyers responding to things I've put up for sale are from Europe or the UK. Maybe that's just because lights are more readily available in the US and the extra shipping costs on top of my sale prices make them look elsewhere.


One thing that annoys me is online sellers who only ship internationally using EMS and refuse to post by lower cost methods, even if the merchandise being bought is a fraction of the cost of the EMS shipping. I tried to buy about US$5 of merchandise from an online seller this morning and saw on their shopping cart there was no low cost shipping option and they wanted about US$25 for EMS. I sent them an email asking if they could post via airmail and they refused. They've definitely lost a customer here.


----------



## JaguarDave-in-Oz (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



UnderTheWeepingMoon said:


> I've had a couple of packages opened for inspection but so far nothing's been confiscated and I haven't had to pay any duty. My Spy007 box arrived a bit beaten up with packing tape wrapped around the openings and sure enough, there was a customs inspection form inside the box. I also bought a Caly3 which was inspected by customs but the knife was deemed legal (I asked the seller to tighten the pivot before shipping). I think Aussie customs are doing a good job and don't worry about my packages getting lost in the mail.


yeah sorry, my words were muddy, I was actually referring to the fact that they don't hold mail items up to impose duty and tax unless they are valued over a grand unlike the petty taxing that seems to go on in the UK and parts of Europe.

But yes, on the other hand, everything coming into Australia by mail is screened and is subject to potential x-ray and/or opening for inspection for prohibited imports and quarantine or for under declaring value.


----------



## LEDninja (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



UnderTheWeepingMoon said:


> One thing that annoys me is online sellers who only ship internationally using EMS and refuse to post by lower cost methods, even if the merchandise being bought is a fraction of the cost of the EMS shipping. I tried to buy about US$5 of merchandise from an online seller this morning and saw on their shopping cart there was no low cost shipping option and they wanted about US$25 for EMS. I sent them an email asking if they could post via airmail and they refused. They've definitely lost a customer here.


They probably got hit by SCAMMERS in the past.

Scammers orders goods from a different country.
Wait till goods arrive in customs. Wait another 2 weeks. Complain to Credit card company/Paypal goods were not sent.
Seller was not able to provide proof of delivery. Credit card company/Paypal withdraws money from seller's account, reimburses scammer.
Scammer gets his money back, goes down to customs to collect goods.

One CPF member got double scammed. Scammer contacted him saying goods were lost. The trusting CPF member sent replacement goods. Scammer withdraws money then collects both sets of goods.
Admits to the scam after, even taunts the CPF member "What are you going to do about it"

DX ships registered mail if package is over $10. Signature required (proof of delivery). Unfortunately that is not offered by Canada Post (and I suspect USPS) for regular mail.
Fedex, UPS etc clears customs and require signature (proof of delivery). Unfortunately for buyers, in addition to extra shipping costs, there is customs brokerage costs.


----------



## UnderTheWeepingMoon (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



LEDninja said:


> They probably got hit by SCAMMERS in the past.



It's always the minority making life hard for the majority. :sigh:


----------



## T0RN4D0 (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

Trading without any confirmation and paypal can be pretty hazardous. Both parties have about 0 proof about sending, not sending, receiving or not receiving anything, and the mail goes through a lot of hands that probably know that too. I'm thinking, the postman could simply take all the yellow envelops that i receive from HK, and i couldn't do a thing about it. Well, i would probably get reimbursed by the seller, but then the seller couldn't do a thing about it. 


And don't get me started on customs, our guys sniff out everything, because anything above 30$ (shipping included) gets taxed. And you have to pay them to tax you lol, now thats a sweet deal.


----------



## AvroArrow (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



JaguarDave-in-Oz said:


> yeah sorry, my words were muddy, I was actually referring to the fact that they don't hold mail items up to impose duty and tax unless they are valued over a grand unlike the petty taxing that seems to go on in the UK and parts of Europe.
> 
> But yes, on the other hand, everything coming into Australia by mail is screened and is subject to potential x-ray and/or opening for inspection for prohibited imports and quarantine or for under declaring value.



Wow! You Aussies get a $1,000 AUD limit?!? (~$930 USD) We Canadians get nailed for taxes on anything over $20 CAN (~$20 USD currently), unless it's a "gift" where they bump it "up" to $60 CAD. Of course it's not every single time, depends on the Customs agent that happens to be reviewing your package at the time. I know Germany also has a pretty low import limit before taxation too. I wonder how high the US limit is for importing goods into the US.

Similar to you, if we want to send anything more than a standard 1st class mail letter and we have to go to the Post Office or more often than not a 3rd party Postal Outlet (usually inside a large shopping mall, supermarket, or pharmacy/drug store) to send it. What's also retarded about our postal system is that it is cheaper for me to send an un-insured package to the US than within Canada, sometimes twice as much if I'm sending to the other side Canada.

But I do sympathize with the Americans that have to wait up to 1hr in line plus a long drive to get there. I don't think I've had to wait more than 20mins max at even the busiest of postal outlets. Then again, we have a lot of these little postal outlets (they are privately run, almost like a franchise or something) everywhere instead of large government run central Post Offices. There's one within a 5min drive of my home and another one within a 5min walk from my work.


----------



## DimeRazorback (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



UnderTheWeepingMoon said:


> I've had a couple of packages opened for inspection but so far nothing's been confiscated and I haven't had to pay any duty. My Spy007 box arrived a bit beaten up with packing tape wrapped around the openings and sure enough, there was a customs inspection form inside the box. I also bought a Caly3 which was inspected by customs but the knife was deemed legal (I asked the seller to tighten the pivot before shipping). I think Aussie customs are doing a good job and don't worry about my packages getting lost in the mail.



My Emersons also get inspected, but they pass.

For some reason, all of my 4sevens packages do too lately :shrug:


----------



## dano (Jan 14, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*

At least at my P.O.'s they will not accept any international packages unless the forms are filled out via the USPS internet pages; they no longer accept the hand written forms.


----------



## LuxLuthor (Jan 15, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



dano said:


> At least at my P.O.'s they will not accept any international packages unless the forms are filled out via the USPS internet pages; they no longer accept the hand written forms.



It really is funny how many variations there seems to be from one Post Office to the next.


----------



## Essexman (Jan 15, 2010)

*Re: International shipping*



Niconical said:


> signs on the map saying "here be dragons",


 
Oh good, they've added my wife to the map of the UK ? :twothumbs





[runs away and hides, just incase she reads this post - only joking dear, I love you really :kiss:]


.


----------



## KD5XB (Feb 19, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

What irritates ME is the guy who tries to tell me they don't ship out of the United States when New Mexico HAS BEEN A STATE SINCE 1912 and a territory of the United States before that!


----------



## 65535 (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

New Mexico is conus, it's a state, you should probably deal with people with a higher IQ...


----------



## KD5XB (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I've had it happen more than once!


----------



## computerpro3 (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I live in the ghetto of Cincinnati, and going to the post office is minimum a 45 minute task, even if just shipping a simple package within the USA. The workers are incredibly slow, overly entitled women who couldn't care less about customer service. I've had them go on break in the middle of my transaction when there was no replacement worker to back them up, leaving a line of 25+ people waiting with no service.

God forbid I need to ask for customs forums - when I ship overseas, it's minimum a 1.5 hour affair after waiting in lines and dealing with the complete morons that work there.

When you factor in the increased cost (sometimes hugely), increased time, and increased blood pressure, it's simply not worth it to me to ship internationally.


----------



## Monocrom (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



computerpro3 said:


> I live in the ghetto of Cincinnati, and going to the post office is minimum a 45 minute task, even if just shipping a simple package within the USA. The workers are incredibly slow, overly entitled women who couldn't care less about customer service. I've had them go on break in the middle of my transaction when there was no replacement worker to back them up, leaving a line of 25+ people waiting with no service.


 
You don't have to live in a ghetto to get p*ss poor customer service from the Post Office. I stopped using the HUGE post office located near 34th street in Manhattan after that same "break" bull$#^% was pulled on me. And I was the very next customer on the line. 

Nothing wrong with taking a break. But freaking Hell, get someone to cover your damn window! Another postal worker was standing nearby. I called her over, explained what had happened, and even she was shocked by her co-worker's lack of professionalism. She was the one who went and found someone to cover the guy's window. Mr. Break just took off when he felt like it.

That post office has other issues. Despite being big, it's poorly run. 

The best one I've found is the one that's actually located in the basement of a mall.


----------



## orbspeed1 (Feb 22, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I cant believe the US has such a backwards and useless mailing system I know we all complain about the system here in the UK Ie 10 windows and only 2 open but atleast the staff seem to know what they are doing(usualy).

Last year I worked for a company that banked its takings through the post office so I would go there at least 3 times a week only ever got long ques at lunch time or christmas, typicaly in and out in under 10mins. But 1 thing that did suprised me was the amount of people that posted stuff over sea atleast 1 in 10.


If the US postal system and rates are realy that bad or unrealistic have you told them do they know.

http://faq.usps.com/eCustomer/iq/usps/request.do?create=kb:USPSFAQ&forward=inquiryType

Tell them it may get better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## snakebite (Feb 22, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

any more if i cant ship it through usps click and ship with carrier pick up it wont happen.
it can be a huge pain in the *** to go to the local post office anymore for many reasons already stated.
this means at minimum priority mail for anything.
at least i can do the customs forms online for international packages.for small,light(pardon the pun) stuff its viable to ship international.things like led's,polymer capacitors for motherboards,ect.
and as with others here i WILL NOT lie on the form to save you duty on your end.take it up with your elected officials!not my problem.


----------



## orbspeed1 (Feb 22, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Ok had a little look at paypal US site heres there list of aproved counties.
 

*Send and Receive Payments Securely Worldwide*








Whether you're buying soccer shoes from Chile, a cell phone from China, or selling surfboards in Costa Rica, PayPal works for you. With a network of more than 190 countries and regions, and in multiple currencies, PayPal reaches across the globe to give you or your business a way to pay or get paid.
*PayPal Localized Sites - Your Customized Total Payment Solution*







Argentina




Australia




Austria




Belgium




Brazil




Canada




China
 





France




Germany




Hong Kong




Italy




Japan




Mexico




Netherlands
 





Poland




Singapore




Spain




Switzerland




United Kingdom




United States
 

*Send. Receive. Withdraw.*

*Send. Receive. Withdraw to a Local or U.S. Bank Account or a card.*

Send and receive payments in these countries. Withdraw from your PayPal account to your in-country bank account or to a U.S. bank account. In addition, withdraw to a credit, debit, or prepaid card in countries marked with a (



).






Czech Republic




Denmark




Finland




French Guiana




Greece




Guadeloupe




Hungary




India








Indonesia




 





Ireland




Israel








Luxembourg








Malaysia








Martinique




New Zealand




Norway




Philippines








Portugal
 





Reunion




Slovakia








South Korea




Sweden




Taiwan




Thailand




Turkey




 
*Send. Receive. Withdraw to a U.S. Bank Account, a card, or via a Check.*

Send and receive payments in these countries. Withdraw from your PayPal account to a U.S. bank account or request a check from PayPal. In addition, withdraw to a credit, debit, or prepaid card in countries marked with a (



).






Chile








Ecuador
 





Jamaica




Uruguay




 
*Send. Receive. Withdraw to a U.S. Bank Account or a card.*

Send and receive payments in these countries. Withdraw from your PayPal account to a U.S. bank account. In addition, withdraw to a credit, debit, or prepaid card in countries marked with a (



).






Bulgaria








Costa Rica




Cyprus








Dominican Republic




Estonia








Gibraltar




 





Iceland








Latvia








Liechtenstein








Lithuania








Malta








Romania




 





San Marino








Slovenia








United Arab Emirates








Venezuela
 
*Send. Receive. Withdraw to a local bank account.*

Send and receive payments in these countries. Withdraw from your PayPal account to an in-country bank account. 






Vietnam


*Send Money to Anyone in the Growing PayPal Network*







Albania




Algeria




Andorra




Angola




Anguilla




Antigua and Barbuda




Armenia




Aruba




Azerbaijan Republic




Bahamas




Bahrain




Barbados




Belize




Benin




Bermuda




Bhutan




Bolivia




Bosnia and Herzegovina




Botswana




British Virgin Islands




Brunei




Burkina Faso




Burundi




Cambodia




Cape Verde




Cayman Islands




Chad




Colombia




Comoros




Cook Islands




Croatia




Democratic Republic of the Congo




Djibouti




Dominica




El Salvador




Eritrea




Ethiopia




Falkland Islands




Faroe Islands




Federated States of Micronesia




Fiji




French Polynesia
 





Gabon Republic




Gambia




Greenland




Grenada




Guatemala




Guinea




Guinea Bissau




Guyana




Honduras




Jordan




Kazakhstan




Kenya




Kiribati




Kuwait




Kyrgyzstan




Laos




Lesotho




Madagascar




Malawi




Maldives




Mali




Marshall Islands




Mauritania




Mauritius




Mayotte




Mongolia




Montserrat




Morocco




Mozambique




Namibia




Nauru




Nepal




Netherlands Antilles




New Caledonia




Nicaragua




Niger




Niue




Norfolk Island




Oman




Palau




Panama




Papua New Guinea
 





Peru




Pitcairn Islands




Qatar




Republic of the Congo




Russia




Rwanda




Saint Vincent and the Grenadines




Samoa




São Tomé and Príncipe




Saudi Arabia




Senegal




Seychelles




Sierra Leone




Solomon Islands




Somalia




South Africa




Sri Lanka




St. Helena




St. Kitts and Nevis




St. Lucia




St. Pierre and Miquelon




Suriname




Svalbard and Jan Mayen Islands




Swaziland




Tajikistan




Tanzania




Togo




Tonga




Trinidad and Tobago




Tunisia




Turkmenistan




Turks and Caicos Islands




Tuvalu




Uganda




Ukraine




Vanuatu




Vatican City State




Wallis and Futuna Islands




Yemen




Zambia
 






Paypal protection is for all these counties there are no exclusions.
below is pappal US protection eligibility.
 




*11. Protection For Sellers.* 

*11.1 What is PayPal seller protection?* 
Protection for Claims, Chargebacks, or Reversals based on the following reasons:


Unauthorized Transaction
Item Not Received
 Seller protection is available for eligible payments from buyers in any country.
*11.2 How much protection is provided by PayPal seller protection?* 
PayPal will protect you for the full amount of the eligible payment and waive the Chargeback Fee, if applicable. There is no limit on the number of payments for which you can receive coverage.
*11.3 What are the eligibility requirements for PayPal seller protection?* 
You must meet all of the basic requirements listed below: In addition, you must meet the Item Not Received requirements to be covered for Items Not Received and the Unauthorized Transactions requirements to be covered for Unauthorized Transactions.
*Basic Requirements:* 


Ship the item to the shipping address on the “Transaction Details” page.
Respond to PayPal’s requests for documentation and other information in a timely manner.
The item must be a physical, tangible good that can be shipped.
Your primary residence, as listed in your PayPal Account, must be in the United States.
 *Item Not Received Requirements:* 


 The payment must be marked “eligible” or “partially eligible” for seller protection on the Transaction Details Page.
 You must have a Proof of Delivery.
 You must ship the item within 7 days of receipt of payment. Or, if the payment is for pre-ordered or made-to-order goods, shipment is required within the timeframe specified in your item listing.
 *Unauthorized Transactions Requirements:* 


 The payment must be marked “eligible” for seller protection on the Transaction Details Page.
 You must have a Proof of Shipment or a Proof of Delivery.
 *11.4 What is “Proof of Shipment”?* 
Online or physical documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:


The date the item is shipped.
The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/state or zip code (or international equivalent).
 *11.5 What is “Proof of Delivery”?* Online documentation from a shipping company that includes all of the following:


The date the item is delivered.
The recipient’s address, showing at least the city/state or zip code (or international equivalent).
Signature Confirmation for payments of $250 USD or more (see Foreign Currency Equivalents below).
 *11.6 What is “Signature Confirmation”?* 
Online documentation that can be viewed at the shipping company’s website and indicates that the item was signed for on delivery.
*11.7 What are examples of items/transactions that are not eligible for seller protection?* 


Claims or Chargebacks for Significantly Not as Described.
Items that you deliver in person.
Intangible items, licenses for digital content, and services.
Payments through PayPal Direct Payment or Virtual Terminal.
 *11.8 Seller Protection Policy Definitions.* 


“Chargeback" means a challenge to a payment that a buyer files directly with his or her credit card company.
"Claim" means a challenge to a payment that a buyer files directly with PayPal.
“Item Not Received” means a challenge from a buyer claiming that the item purchased was not received.
"Reversal" means a challenge to a payment that a buyer files directly with his Bank, or is initiated by PayPal.
“Transaction Details Page” means the page that includes the transaction information and can be accessed by logging into your PayPal Account.
“Unauthorized Transaction” means a challenge from a buyer claiming that he or she did not make the payment, and that the person who made the payment was not authorized.


In short other than a trip to the post office its safe to ship to the above places and you get paypal protection.
So if you have the time and the buyer will pay whats stopping you!!!!!!!!!!

You may sell faster or get full asking price how many times do you see price drop in the sales threads!!!!!


----------



## photonwave (Feb 22, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I'll sell wherever. Ask me to lie on a customs form and I'll refund your cash.

It's that simple for my business. I'm only selling LED horticultural panels, most places that I'm aware of don't really have a tax or import duty on those.


----------



## Empath (Feb 22, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



orbspeed1 said:


> In short other than a trip to the post office its safe to ship to the above places and you get paypal protection.
> So if you have the time and the buyer will pay whats stopping you!!!!!!!!!!



It's everyone's own choice, what chances they'll take, but, a couple of recent threads in the MarketPlace Jeers forum shows some vulnerabilities the sellers may not wish to ignore.


----------



## nfetterly (Feb 22, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I usually ship / sell overseas - if I have a particularly nice light and will ship overseas than someone from overseas will usually snatch it up. I do think I will have to re-think it though to only selling to folks with a good record (I've never checked) - but those are usually the ones interested in a +$300 light anyway.

Last time around I shipped registered mail at request of European member (whose wife works in post office). Relatively cheap versus insured rout BUT - lots more regulations - I had the wrong type of tape on the package, a different form required.... I usually fill out the forms while I wait in line.

I did miss out on 2 packages from Europe - one never showed (about 3 months now) - we reached a equitable solution on that one. But one package arrived and the item (lanyard) was missing - envelope had ripped open. No good solution on that one.

Yes it's a pain. But typically yes it's worth it for a quick sale at reasonable asking price. For a $15 or $20 bezel - it would be a pain in the a**.


----------



## Monocrom (Feb 22, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



Empath said:


> It's everyone's own choice, what chances they'll take, but, a couple of recent threads in the MarketPlace Jeers forum shows some vulnerabilities the sellers may not wish to ignore.


 
Found one of those threads you mentioned. 

If I ever get to the point where I decide to sell some of my lights, it'll be CONUS only with postal money orders.


----------



## QtrHorse (Feb 22, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I personally have no problem shipping outside the US. I always give the buyer the option of the exegerated insurance that is normally associated with shipping something out of the US. They always decline.

I have been selling and buying for many years and have never had bad feedback or had someone file a claim with PP. 

I recently had a Russia buyer purchase something from me for $33 shipped. He declined the insurance or tracking info because it would have doubled the cost. He then files a claim almost exactly one month later because he had not received the item. I'm not sure what actions PP will take but I did at least save my Post Office receipt that shows I sent something to Russia two days after he paid. I also have his emails that state he refused insurance or any other tracking info. Hopefully that will be enough for PP to decide in my favor.

I believe it is incidents like this that keep people from wanting to ship out of the US. At least if you ship something in the US, you can purchase a signature confirmation for less than $1 if you choose.


----------



## KD5XB (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Personally, I don't think PayPal protects anybody -- buyer OR seller. Recently, I bought some eyeglasses online -- bad mistake, won't do that again. Anyway, the seller refunded me $15, sent it to my PayPal account. Of course, it never showed up. Protection for the buyer? Guess not.

As for protecting the seller -- take a look in the "Cheers & Jeers" forum and you'll see all kinds of examples where PayPal refunded money -- or not -- and none of it makes any sense, unless you consider that PayPal isn't a bank and doesn't want to be bothered with problems between individuals.

I occasionally use PayPal to send money, but I would never try to receive money through PayPal, it's just too risky. Again, the proof is in the "Cheers & Jeers" forum.


----------



## Praxis (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

I will ship overseas, but generally only for more expensive items ($100+). The amount of time necessary to fill out customs forms is pretty much the same regardless of the cost of the item. I hate spending 30 minutes filling out forms for a $20 item. 

Also, I will only ship overseas if the buyer knows what he/she is doing. They have to pick up the actual shipping costs and use a USPS service that comes with tracking. They also have to be okay with me getting insurance for the full value of the item. If they don't want to do that, no deal.

As far as post offices go, my local one about a mile away is pretty good. Usually a short wait and the 4-5 staff there all know me. The regional post office a few miles away, on the other hand, is a real nightmare. Rarely more than one or two clerks in duty and hugh lines. The regional PO's hours are much better, but I try to avoid that place at all costs.


----------



## wykeite (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



QtrHorse said:


> I personally have no problem shipping outside the US. I always give the buyer the option of the exegerated insurance that is normally associated with shipping something out of the US. They always decline............ (Big snip).
> 
> I believe it is incidents like this that keep people from wanting to ship out of the US. At least if you ship something in the US, you can purchase a signature confirmation for less than $1 if you choose.


 
Can't remember the offer of exagerated insurance:tinfoil:, thank goodness it arrived safely and quickly(6 days to the UK). One of the good guys here.



Praxis said:


> I will ship overseas, but generally only for more expensive items ($100+). The amount of time necessary to fill out customs forms is pretty much the same regardless of the cost of the item. I hate spending 30 minutes filling out forms for a $20 item.
> 
> Also, I will only ship overseas if the buyer knows what he/she is doing. They have to pick up the actual shipping costs and use a USPS service that comes with tracking. They also have to be okay with me getting insurance for the full value of the item. If they don't want to do that, no deal.
> 
> As far as post offices go, my local one about a mile away is pretty good. Usually a short wait and the 4-5 staff there all know me. The regional post office a few miles away, on the other hand, is a real nightmare. Rarely more than one or two clerks in duty and hugh lines. The regional PO's hours are much better, but I try to avoid that place at all costs.


 
I see no problem with your terms.

********************

I'm sorry to hear about the problems you have with USPS perhaps Royal Mail and Post Office aren't so bad:devil:.

Anyway, cheers to those that sell international from the U.S.

To those that don't, you could have sold it for more y'all :nana:.


----------



## photonwave (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



wykeite said:


> Can't remember the offer of exagerated insurance:tinfoil:, thank goodness it arrived safely and quickly(6 days to the UK). One of the good guys here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, I have two locations - USA and UK. This way I can at least handle the EU at a decent cost, and service the CONUS cheaply as well.

Trying to get a location in Australia next.


----------



## LightBen (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

There are several reasons why my business does not ship outside of the USA and Canada:

When selling a wide variety of items, it becomes an enormous hassle to determine the postal regulations in other nations. Some countries require certain types of goods to be insured for their full value, whether your customer wants to pay for insurance or not. Other countries have insane regulations. Going from memory, Italy officially bans the importation of any toys not made wholly of wood, any bells or musical instruments, clocks and clock parts, albums of any kind, typewriter ribbons, etc. It becomes a burden to check for these sorts of regulations for every item sent to every foreign customer.

Returns (if the seller allows them) are a hassle.

VERY often, buyers become angry when you quote them the true cost to ship to their nations. A shipment that costs $12 in the US can easily cost $50+ to a foreign nation. This does not even take into account the additional time it takes for the seller to complete any customs declarations. 

We have lost money too many times on shipping to foreign nations. You might get an initial quote from the USPS of $10 to ship an item and pass this along to your customer. Then you learn that you MUST ship that particular item via a specific service to comply with postal regulations and, by the way, the shipping is now $30.

I am willing to make exceptions for certain customers and certain items, but generally it's not worth the hassle.

-Ben


----------



## KD5XB (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



Praxis said:


> As far as post offices go, my local one about a mile away is pretty good. Usually a short wait and the 4-5 staff there all know me. The regional post office a few miles away, on the other hand, is a real nightmare. Rarely more than one or two clerks in duty and huge lines. The regional PO's hours are much better, but I try to avoid that place at all costs.



Go try and buy a couple of IRC's -- International Reply Coupons -- from any of them. If it's like the Post Offices in my area, you'll get answers ranging from "those are no longer used anywhere" to "yes sir, how many do you need?" IRC's are supposed to be available anywhere there is a demand, but some of the postal employees will tell you anything to keep from selling them.


----------



## wykeite (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



LightBen said:


> There are several reasons why my business does not ship outside of the USA and Canada:
> 
> When selling a wide variety of items, it becomes an enormous hassle to determine the postal regulations in other nations. Some countries require certain types of goods to be insured for their full value, whether your customer wants to pay for insurance or not. Other countries have insane regulations. Going from memory, Italy officially bans the importation of any toys not made wholly of wood, any bells or musical instruments, clocks and clock parts, albums of any kind, typewriter ribbons, etc. It becomes a burden to check for these sorts of regulations for every item sent to every foreign customer.
> 
> ...


 
Thank you very much and goodnight Sir.


----------



## Illum (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

Increased liability in terms of items getting lost, delays in transit, seizure in customs [you should see some of the things that gets sold in the US...] 

Higher shipping per pound weight means less revenue...for such matters some company simply prefers to deal with domestic markets. the US of A has always been accustomed to domestic commerce...that'll change in the coming decade in which US may be forced to accept a new scope of global commerce...a topic too political to sustain peacefully upstairs


----------



## wykeite (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



Illum said:


> Increased liability in terms of items getting lost, delays in transit, seizure in customs [you should see some of the things that gets sold in the US...]
> 
> Higher shipping per pound weight means less revenue...for such matters some company simply prefers to deal with domestic markets. the US of A has always been accustomed to domestic commerce...that'll change in the coming decade in which US may be forced to accept a new scope of global commerce...a topic too political to sustain peacefully upstairs


 
Please expand if you can, it doesn't make much sense at the moment. In fact it's drivel and hasn't anything to do with the OP.


----------



## Apollo Cree (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*

A buddy of mine was trying to ship a package to someone in Saudi Arabia. He put the correct mailing info on it. 

Apparently, because it didn't have a "zip code" at the end of the international address, the idiot operating the mail sorting machine would type the zip code on the return address in, and the package would come back to his own address. Apparently, the operator has to enter a zip code within a certain time or he gets a reprimand, and he doesn't get any reprimand for routing the package incorrectly. 

He had to go to the post office three times, check with the droid behind the counter, verify the addressing was correct, and leave it at the counter. The package kept getting returned to his return address.


----------



## photonwave (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



Apollo Cree said:


> A buddy of mine was trying to ship a package to someone in Saudi Arabia. He put the correct mailing info on it.
> 
> Apparently, because it didn't have a "zip code" at the end of the international address, the idiot operating the mail sorting machine would type the zip code on the return address in, and the package would come back to his own address. Apparently, the operator has to enter a zip code within a certain time or he gets a reprimand, and he doesn't get any reprimand for routing the package incorrectly.
> 
> He had to go to the post office three times, check with the droid behind the counter, verify the addressing was correct, and leave it at the counter. The package kept getting returned to his return address.



Hey! That sounds like my experience with DHL!


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## QtrHorse (Feb 23, 2010)

*Re: Why some sellers don't sell their lights/stuffs outside US?*



wykeite said:


> Can't remember the offer of exagerated insurance:tinfoil:, thank goodness it arrived safely and quickly(6 days to the UK). One of the good guys here.


 
That's because I have never had anyone ask for insurance or delivery confirmation that was out of the US. I leave it up to the buyer. I almost always list the terms in my FS threads. I give the buyer the option of insurance and delivery confirmation. Only a few US buyers even choose the option. 

Yes, you were one of the many non US buyers that had no problems. The one incident that I listed is the only one in my entire time selling items.

I have actually had great luck with shipping times out of the US. Many of the items I recently shipped have arrived in 6-7 days. I consider that fasat shipping for out of the US.


----------



## uknewbie (Aug 27, 2011)

*International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I recently contacted Bob at RMSK to try the already difficult task of actually buying a product from Peak. No joy as he will not ship to the UK, as this is too much hassle, apparently.

What is the problem here? This seems annoyingly common, especially when posting from the USA. What year is this?

China ships items all over the world in enormous numbers, and shipping across Europe is now easier than ever.

Do companies just have so little need for business nowadays that they can turn it away?

How hard is it to fill out a little slip and take your sales to the post office, or have them collected?

I would gladly pay the extra shipping costs!


:shakehead :shakehead :shakehead


----------



## Norm (Aug 27, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I've had no trouble (if you discount slow delivery) dealing with Peak direct. Talk to Curt Or Robyn.
Norm


----------



## beerwax (Aug 27, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

i get all sorts of stuff from all over the world but hardly ever fom the usa cos they dont like to . but sometimes someone there will and for the same shipping costs the rest of the world charges. ive seen surveys of americans where they are asked if they know where country 'x' is and you get somefunny answers.


----------



## brembo (Aug 27, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I just checked USPS rates for a 5x8x2 (inch), max 4 pounds and it's ~13 dollars. So it's not too bad. I do not know anything about customs or tariffs once it leaves the US however. For a laugh fire up UPS international delivery...whoa expensive.

uknewbie-

If you are wiling to do the research for what kind of customs paperwork/fees are involved I would have no problem being the intermediary for a international shipment. Ship to me, then I'd turn around and ship to you, no upcharge on my end, just cover all expenses.


----------



## Napalm (Aug 27, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

Laziness and their internal market being large enough to sustain them.

Nap.


----------



## mvyrmnd (Aug 27, 2011)

Napalm said:


> Laziness and their internal market being large enough to sustain them.
> 
> Nap.


 
I think you're on the money. The rest of the world have to ship globally in order to be able to sell their stuff. There isn't a huge market in Australia for $500 torches  . If I want to sell a light an any reasonable amount of time, I have to be willing to ship overseas. Folks in the U.S. can simply not bother because there's enough of a market locally.

I don't know how the system works over there, but for me to ship internationally only requires one extra piece of paper and a bunch of extra dollars. The process is no more difficult than sending a birthday card to my mum.


----------



## Z-Tab (Aug 27, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

A lot of people and companies, when scammed, are scammed by international buyers. That's a big part of it. There's a general feeling that shipping internationally puts the seller at greater risk, and when dealing with Paypal or Credit Card companies, that is almost always true; very few buyers are willing to pay the $30-40 premium to get tracking that is available within the US for less than $1. When dealing with large companies, or sales agents, that concern is lessened.

Obviously, there's not a greater number of scammers internationally, the system is just easier to exploit.


----------



## Sparky's Magic (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

4Sevens ship internationally, have some fine products and charge NO freight. These guys provide an excellent service, superb after-sales back-up and are at all times helpful and courteous. 

I had occasion to return a small 'light; no hassles, just friendly old fashioned service. They replaced the light and refunded my return freight from _Australia! _I'm sure on this deal they would have lost money: What they did get is a return customer and a pretty happy one at that.


----------



## FlashKat (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

It also depends where you live in the U.S.A, since some post offices are very busy. I have to wait in line for an hour sometimes to ship internationally.


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## AaronG (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



Sparky's Magic said:


> 4Sevens ship internationally, have some fine products and charge NO freight. These guys provide an excellent service, superb after-sales back-up and are at all times helpful and courteous.
> 
> I had occasion to return a small 'light; no hassles, just friendly old fashioned service. They replaced the light and refunded my return freight from _Australia! _I'm sure on this deal they would have lost money: What they did get is a return customer and a pretty happy one at that.


 
I've been very happy with 4sevens. I wish they sold all the stuff I wanted just because of the free shipping and great service 

Usually that little slip of paper comes with a premium handling charge because the shipping charge is usually five times more than the actual shipping charged by USPS.


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## z17813 (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



FlashKat said:


> It also depends where you live in the U.S.A, since some post offices are very busy. I have to wait in line for an hour sometimes to ship internationally.



I think this is a fair point. A friend of mine who lives stateside often has to wait 60-90 minutes at his post office. I don't blame him for not wanting to deal with the stuff around. Living is Australia I'm always happy to see people shipping internationally, but I don't blame them if they aren't willing to, usually there is someone else willing to take my cash.


----------



## Morelite (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I have mailed several lights internationally and have done all the shipping online with USPS and just dropped them in the mailbox with no need to visit the PO.


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## fivemega (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



FlashKat said:


> I have to wait in line for an hour sometimes to ship internationally.


*This is very small part of international shipping problem from USA.*



Z-Tab said:


> There's a general feeling that shipping internationally puts the seller at greater risk, and when dealing with Paypal or Credit Card companies, that is almost always true; very few buyers are willing to pay the $30-40 premium to get tracking that is available within the US for less than $1.


*While you can get delivery confirmation inside USA for $0.80

Also, shipping to some countries are too risky to worth their business.*



Morelite said:


> I have mailed several lights internationally and have done all the shipping online with USPS and just dropped them in the mailbox with no need to visit the PO.


 
*And if buyer claims that he hasn't receive the package and opens a paypal dispute? Can you track the parcel? Do all international buyers willing to pay premium for insurance or tracking service? USPS doesn't even offer some services to few countries simply because their postal service is not reliable or safe.*


----------



## bansuri (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



uknewbie said:


> I recently contacted Bob at RMSK to try the already difficult task of actually buying a product from Peak. No joy as he will not ship to the UK, as this is too much hassle, apparently.


That it is a hassle is not apparent. Ask him. He is a member here also, look in the Peak subforum.



uknewbie said:


> What is the problem here? This seems annoyingly common, especially when posting from the USA. What year is this?


I can only speak for myself, 1 ebay sale took months to arrive to Australia, my loss. An order from Cutter took a little over 7 months to arrive. As a private individual I'm unable to absorb any losses as I don't sell that much.




uknewbie said:


> China ships items all over the world in enormous numbers, and shipping across Europe is now easier than ever.


RMSK is a small firm that sells some lights for Peak in the US, China is a country.
Bob is not in Europe so he will not benefit from the new ease of shipping there.



uknewbie said:


> Do companies just have so little need for business nowadays that they can turn it away?


Doubtful, more than likely it is a matter of risk factors and cost.



uknewbie said:


> How hard is it to fill out a little slip and take your sales to the post office, or have them collected?


Not hard at all, it's doubtful that is the problem.



uknewbie said:


> I would gladly pay the extra shipping costs!
> 
> 
> :shakehead :shakehead :shakehead



Your collection of Straw Man and other invalid arguments have gotten you no closer to your goal, Contact CPF member DUMDUM for answers regarding RMSK shipping or member Curt R and browse around here. 

Or you could go all CPF member Jimmy1970 on the issue and start your own store and be the EU distributor for Peak! We know there is at least a small demand in the EU and elsewhere, you would of course get samples and promos........

My guess is that it is primarily a question of risk/reward, not laziness.

(for the record, this post wouldn't have read much differently if it had been a thread about UK ONLY sales. People have their reasons.)


----------



## HarryN (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



Sparky's Magic said:


> 4Sevens ship internationally, have some fine products and charge NO freight. These guys provide an excellent service, superb after-sales back-up and are at all times helpful and courteous.
> 
> I had occasion to return a small 'light; no hassles, just friendly old fashioned service. They replaced the light and refunded my return freight from _Australia! _I'm sure on this deal they would have lost money: What they did get is a return customer and a pretty happy one at that.



I am afraid that your example just makes it all that much more obvious why people don't ship internationally. Wire transfers to AUS are ridiculously expensive and shipping costs are roughly what you would expect for shipping something literally around the world. That being said, I have a supplier in AUS that is absolutely fabulous and it is worth my time and money to keep working with them.

4Sevens obviously takes their image quite seriously, so they were willing to loose money on doing business with you to keep all customers happy and retain corporate good will. Other companies also take their image quite seriously, and they seen long shipments as more likely a loose - loose.

My personal experience is that if you are going to do business in a continent, you really need someone there working for you. It can be a part time person, but there are just too many opportunites for things to go wrong even when you are trying really hard.


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## bedazzLED (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

Ordering Peak lights and getting them delivered to Australia is no problem. 

I just contacted Peak directly, spoke to Robyn, ordered the lights I wanted and 4 weeks later they arrived.

There is only one dealer I have ever had a wee problem with; he who shall not be named; everybody else has been fine.


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## uknewbie (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

RMSK was used here as an example as my most recent instance of this issue, they are by no means alone in this regard.

This does seem an issue common to the USA however, as I have no issue getting things shipped from China, quite often with free delivery.

*Just frustrating that there still seems to be a blanket ban on shipping anywhere outside the US by some companies, when others are happy to do it.*

Incidentally, some time ago I started a thread about best places to buy in the UK, in case anyone would find it useful who has not already seen it. 

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?316218-Buying-options-in-the-UK


----------



## Samy (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I have purchased from GoingGear.com, 4Sevens.com & last week Zebralight.com and all have been pleasant to deal with. It takes 2-4 weeks for a light to turn up, but it's worth the wait as such lights are simply not available in local stores. If a U.S.A online store doesn't charge extra and ship to Australia, then i consider it laziness. GoingGear.com charge extra for shipping to Australia and rightly so and are absolutely fantastic to deal with. I bought my Klarus and also my TK-41 from them this year & it only took about 2 weeks. They will get my repeat business. 

cheers


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## uknewbie (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



Samy said:


> I have purchased from GoingGear.com, 4Sevens.com & last week Zebralight.com and all have been pleasant to deal with. It takes 2-4 weeks for a light to turn up, but it's worth the wait as such lights are simply not available in local stores. If a U.S.A online store doesn't charge extra and ship to Australia, then i consider it laziness. GoingGear.com charge extra for shipping to Australia and rightly so and are absolutely fantastic to deal with. I bought my Klarus and also my TK-41 from them this year & it only took about 2 weeks. They will get my repeat business.
> 
> cheers


 
Exactly.

All these problems and risks are overcome by many good companies in the USA, so does make you doubt them when presented by others.

Just seems lazy and/or poor customer service.

I have a Jetbeam RRT-21 coming just now from Bug Out Gear for example. No issues, paid the postage for international shipping, simple.

I think if I ran my own business I would happily sell to anyone willing to buy


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## uknewbie (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



bansuri said:


> Your collection of Straw Man and other invalid arguments have gotten you no closer to your goal, Contact CPF member DUMDUM for answers regarding RMSK shipping or member Curt R and browse around here.



I did email Bob, when I asked about why he did not ship internationally he replied.... too much hassle. That was it. Nothing else. Not interested in explaining what hassle, expressing regret, suggesting alternatives, nada. You are not from the USA? Not interested then.

Oh and I have tried both your other suggestions, to no avail.

I would probably never buy from Peak now even if they did get a proper website and shipped abroad as their attitude to selling is so poor.


----------



## uknewbie (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



brembo said:


> uknewbie-
> 
> If you are wiling to do the research for what kind of customs paperwork/fees are involved I would have no problem being the intermediary for a international shipment. Ship to me, then I'd turn around and ship to you, no upcharge on my end, just cover all expenses.


 
Thank you, a very generous offer. You are the type of person that makes this forum really work.

:bow::bow::bow:


----------



## Samy (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

The other option is to get one of the USA address forwarding services.

cheers


----------



## calipsoii (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

As I understand it, there is nothing so hard about shipping internationally from the US except that the package has to be dropped off in person, and that can sometimes take a while. Other than that, the USPS is one of the premier postal systems in the world and the thought of ordering something online and having it arrive in 2 days absolutely blows me away.


----------



## Changchung (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I am not in USA, but I think that the problem is UK, I send a watch to a costumer Jun 13 and he did not receive it yet, I send a lot of item to USA and maybe take a little longer that a regular international shippment but not so long. BTW, the costumer open a paypal complain and their take my money, and I am sure that he will receive the watch soon...


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## jackbombay (Aug 28, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I sell my homemade product all over thew world and only charge the actual chipping cost to anywhere outside the USA, but I will say that international shipments are notably more likely to get lost and more likely to get damaged in transit than domestic shipments, with the latest round of lost/delayed/late packages I've starting to get pretty bummed about shipping internationally.

My $.02


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

This same topic was discussed at length 1-2 years ago. Only the high end USPS Express Mail International or Global Express shipping is trackable. Without confirmation tracking, there is no way to prevail as a seller in an insurance claim. Those methods start at $35 for the first pound.

There are a number of countries (Germany, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Australia, or China (with PayPal Premier account)) that have dramatically preferential laws in the event that a claim is filed....especially if PayPal was used for purchase.

If the international buyers are willing to pay the $14 Priority Mail International (not all are), we can include the customs form in the printed label and hand it to our local postman. For First Class, we must waste the time, gas money, and time waiting in line at local post offices that have abysmal service. My round trip mileage is 14 miles, plus at least 90 minutes to get there and wait in line. You may see that as laziness. I see it in terms of significant uncompensated expenses.

Even with Priority Mail International, we have nothing to give either party reassurance if they don't receive it in a timely manner. If some companies (GoingGear.com, 4Sevens.com, Zebralight.com, etc.) are making it look easy you can be sure that they are doing enough overall volume to make the cost of losses/refunds justified. It is unrealistic to expect smaller businesses or custom modders to provide the cheerful service once they have been burned from international sales gone bad.

For me personally, the straw that broke selling the custom battery packs I used to weld internationally was three of them sent to a person in Malaysia. After a month they filed and won a PayPal dispute, claiming non-receipt since all I had was the proof of shipping. A month later they sent me an email that they received them and had a question how to charge them. I replied that I would be happy to respond once they sent the payment back again...this time as a "Payment Owed" PayPal category. I never heard from them again, and never got their payment. That was it for me. I'm sure Peak, FiveMega and others have their own experiences.


----------



## dandism (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

Yup, it comes down to the price being too high for trackable shipping. Some people are fine with paying extra, most think it's too expensive.


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## uknewbie (Aug 29, 2011)

dandism said:


> Yup, it comes down to the price being too high for trackable shipping. Some people are fine with paying extra, most think it's too expensive.


 
I don't think in many cases it is as this is never offered to find out if the customer is willing to pay or not.


----------



## brembo (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



uknewbie said:


> Thank you, a very generous offer. You are the type of person that makes this forum really work.
> 
> :bow::bow::bow:


 
The perk in it for me would that I could "inspect" the light before shipping it on.


----------



## bansuri (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

While Changchung, jackbombay,LuxLuthor, and others have offered valid, rational explanations for limited shipping options, it appears that uknewbie is stuck on a single explanation for anyone not shipping abroad. 



uknewbie said:


> Just seems lazy and/or poor customer service.



It is easier to apply a non-sequitur to a complex issue than try to understand the many, varied, and complex causes.


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## lightfooted (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



uknewbie said:


> I don't think in many cases it is as this is never offered to find out if the customer is willing to pay or not.



But how would you know that they didn't have the option before you were ever aware of them and sold a total of one light over six months or something similar? Volume is what allows larger stores to do things the small custom shops and people selling out of their homes simply can't afford.


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## JacobJones (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

And many of the USA dealers charge extortionate shipping fees. I wanted to purchase a sunforce hid spotlight from northerntool, so I emailed them to ask if they could ship to the uk and how much it would cost.... They quoted 70 dollars just for shipping and handling. I used the calculator thing on the usps website and they could have sent it for about half that. Getting hid spotlights from America is a pita. Only way to get good hid spotlights here in the uk is spend a fortune on ridiculous shipping fees or build them yourself.

Yet some us dealers (one that comes to mind is shiningbeam) have excellent shipping fees and don't make a fuss about sending internationaly. It actually worked out cheaper for me to buy an ITP A3 EOS from shiningbeam including shipping costs rather than buying from a UK dealer. 

Conclusion: a lot of us sellers need to work on international shipping.


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## bansuri (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

Sounds like a good time for a UK flashoholic to to open a torch shop!


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## Nyctophiliac (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

The problem with shipping stuff from America is the UK Customs. They look out for parcels from USA with a zeal that can only be bordering on obsession. Every time I have ordered expensive packages from US ( I.E. over $100 ) I have had the customs charge me the extra VAT incurred ( not a problem ) and a hefty handling charge from the Post Office.

When I order equivalent products from Korea or China, the Customs seem to ignore them entirely. 

UK based dealers, of which there are many and they are mostly excellent, also have to pay import duty and so the total we pay on some items from them is more than if we were to order from China direct.

I have come to terms with the cost, and although there may be cheaper ways to get things, I find I like to patronize UK dealers like Flashaholics and Taclight and the rest. For a start you get your lights sooner, and also helps me to prevent the heartache of a letter from the Customs man.

However to use the Peak analogy, I do wish one of the UK Dealers would contact Peak for some of the inventory available, I'd love a QTC LOGAN right now!

Welcome to Walmart.


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## JacobJones (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I've been lucky so far, I've ordered several things from the us and I've not been hit with customs fees. 

I just wish some of the uk sellers would stock some hid spotlights. In the end I bought a Thor x colossus and a 75 watt HID kit because it seemed like the only way to get a decent hid spotlight that didn't cost a fortune.


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## Empath (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

Three threads have been merged as being the same rant/discussion. This is a topic that keeps repeating. A review of a few topics in the Jeers Forum will offer several reports from both individual and dealer interstate sales that have ended up showing the ease with which dishonest "buyers" have ripped off honest international sellers.

If I was selling, I might "as a favor", ship abroad for those willing to pay the additional expenses of tracking and insuring. Otherwise, I wouldn't even consider those outside my country as part of my customer-base. Their happiness, as a customer, wouldn't be a consideration.


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## Grizzlyb (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

What I can't understand is this: 
In the same period (few weeks ago) I bought a Blackhawk Flashlight Holder for my Tactical Light from the US, value $ 16.80 shipping was. . . .$28,00 !!!! 
And 2 pouches and a holster from Hongkong. Value $ 18,00, shipping was $2.00) 
Both paid with Visa up front, Hongkong delivery took 6 days, US delivery took 4 weeks. 
Possibly no one cares, but my business will never more go to the US, but Hongkong. 
I am just a small fish in a big ocean, but in fact, there are a lot of fishes like me and in the end, every country needs export.

So, why does it (most of the time) take so long when I order from the US, and what's the thing about these hugh shipping costs.


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## uknewbie (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



Empath said:


> Three threads have been merged as being the same rant/discussion. This is a topic that keeps repeating. A review of a few topics in the Jeers Forum will offer several reports from both individual and dealer interstate sales that have ended up showing the ease with which dishonest "buyers" have ripped off honest international sellers.
> 
> If I was selling, I might "as a favor", ship abroad for those willing to pay the additional expenses of tracking and insuring. Otherwise, I wouldn't even consider those outside my country as part of my customer-base. Their happiness, as a customer, wouldn't be a consideration.


 
Because you don't agree does not make this thread or mine a "rant" :shakehead

If you ran a business and were happy to exclude the rest of the world as potential customers, then that is up to you. The rest of us don't need to agree, and many companies in the USA and elsewhere in the world definitely do not.

Yes this topic keeps repeating, so do TONS of others, and will continue to, as you probably know. Difference is, some get called rants or closed/merged, while others don't, also in a repeating fashion!


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## uknewbie (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



LuxLuthor said:


> For me personally, the straw that broke selling the custom battery packs I used to weld internationally was three of them sent to a person in Malaysia. After a month they filed and won a PayPal dispute, claiming non-receipt since all I had was the proof of shipping. A month later they sent me an email that they received them and had a question how to charge them. I replied that I would be happy to respond once they sent the payment back again...this time as a "Payment Owed" PayPal category. I never heard from them again, and never got their payment. That was it for me.



You could insist that all purchases are sent with a fully trackable service. If the customer is not willing to pay for this, or their country does not offer it, then do not sell, rather than just never selling to anyone anywhere outside your own country.

You could have had the same problem if you sent those battery packs to someone in the USA without tracking. The issue there was you not having proof of receipt, not where you sent it.


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## nfetterly (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

There is a thread that is a sticky on the top of the Custom B/S/T - with "Thief" in the title, haven't seen it referenced in the last two pages on this thread. Myself I've sold quite a few custom lights overseas, buying them I am far more hesitant as I've had two not arrive (one I REALLY wanted too). For myself in the future I'll believe I'll only sell to someone with an established track record here. It is a PITA these days going to the post office - the have played around with the customs forms and sometimes you use one form, sometimes it's a different form. When you filled out all the information standing in line to hear that you have the wrong form filled out (now I sound like I'm whining). I always at least pay for "proof of shipping" so at least the buyer knows I sent him something - if nothing arrives then it is lost.

I cannot remember who it is, but there is a member in Belgium that buys nice lights (believe it was my Ti Nautilus be bought) who's wife works in the Belgian post office. He asked for the package to be sent registered. Sort of a cheaper way to get good handling (my deal extreme packages are LOCKED at the USPS when sent registered), now the problem with that - if you don't realize it is that you need to use paper tape only - so that they can stamp registered all over it and you know it hasn't been tampered with. Selling expensive lights - it opens up the market to sell overseas. But only if you end up with the money.


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## bansuri (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



uknewbie said:


> Because you don't agree does not make this thread or mine a "rant" :shakehead
> 
> If you ran a business and were happy to exclude the rest of the world as potential customers, then that is up to you. The rest of us don't need to agree, and many companies in the USA and elsewhere in the world definitely do not.
> 
> Yes this topic keeps repeating, so do TONS of others, and will continue to, as you probably know. Difference is, some get called rants or closed/merged, while others don't, also in a repeating fashion!


 


bansuri said:


> While Changchung, jackbombay,LuxLuthor, and others have offered valid, rational explanations for limited shipping options, it appears that uknewbie is stuck on a single explanation for anyone not shipping abroad.
> 
> 
> 
> It is easier to apply a non-sequitur to a complex issue than try to understand the many, varied, and complex causes.


 
Thus "rant". People give you calm, logical explanations, you don't accept them. 
I get it, someone on the Internet doesn't agree with you and it makes you mad, but there is a strong possibility that you are not right in your conclusions. 
What if your job didn't give you your check this week because a package had gone missing? Then it would be personal and you'd have a different view. 
I know this won't convince you though. Perhaps try googling eBay Italy delivery scam and check out the horror stories. 
Here, I'll do it for you.


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## jasonck08 (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



uknewbie said:


> You could insist that all purchases are sent with a fully trackable service. If the customer is not willing to pay for this, or their country does not offer it, then do not sell, rather than just never selling to anyone anywhere outside your own country.
> 
> You could have had the same problem if you sent those battery packs to someone in the USA without tracking. The issue there was you not having proof of receipt, not where you sent it.



The only fully reliable trackable service is a non-government carrier aka (Fedex, UPS, DHL). Unless you have a large discount with one of these companies, shipping starts at around $50-60 for a 1lb package! Several times I've sent things Express or Priority or Registered mail and never had a delivery scan and this happens far too often. One time I sent an Express mail (EMS) package to a middle eastern country and didn't have a single scan once it reached that country!

I ship most orders via USPS First Class International, and I'm able to do this because it seems the majority of CPF'ers are good honest people. I've had very few reported losses in the 100's of orders sent in the last year. Patience and Honesty are key for buyers if they want people to ship internationally. I know I personally don't really like getting emails from buyers asking "where is my item" when its only been 2-3 weeks. Sure internationally shipping usually takes 1-3 weeks, but I've had it take 5-6 weeks on numerous occasions.


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## uknewbie (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



bansuri said:


> Thus "rant". People give you calm, logical explanations, you don't accept them.
> I get it, someone on the Internet doesn't agree with you and it makes you mad, but there is a strong possibility that you are not right in your conclusions.
> What if your job didn't give you your check this week because a package had gone missing? Then it would be personal and you'd have a different view.
> I know this won't convince you though. Perhaps try googling eBay Italy delivery scam and check out the horror stories.
> Here, I'll do it for you.


 
You really ought to read more carefully. My thread was making reference to a business. Not one guy selling the odd item on the MP, or small time from home modders. Companies.

I worked for many years in a purely distance selling business and trust me when I say that I am well aware of the risks of doing so, but it can be done.

Italy has some pretty unique issues which is why many companies will not delivery there, but will to the rest of Europe. Italy is by no means representative.

So, no, you do not "get it". Your attempt at sounding patronising does not help either. Feel free not to agree, or cite reasons why you think something may be the case, but try to relax as you do it.


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## uknewbie (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



jasonck08 said:


> The only fully reliable trackable service is a non-government carrier aka (Fedex, UPS, DHL). Unless you have a large discount with one of these companies, shipping starts at around $50-60 for a 1lb package! Several times I've sent things Express or Priority or Registered mail and never had a delivery scan and this happens far too often. One time I sent an Express mail (EMS) package to a middle eastern country and didn't have a single scan once it reached that country!.



Would not be the first time I have paid this or more for delivery. It often still works out cheaper or may be the case that I cannot buy the item elsewhere. You can check in advance what if any scans/updates the item will receive in your destination country and decide on that basis whether to ship there or not, which I think is reasonable.

That is not what often happens though. Some companies just are not interested in considering shipping anywhere outside the USA, ever.


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## bansuri (Aug 29, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

Uknewbie, many, many reasons have been cited and last I saw you stuck by your initial conclusion of lazy/bad CS, so we'll have to just disagree on this one. 
Cheers!

Welcome to Walmart


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## matrixshaman (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



Grizzlyb said:


> What I can't understand is this:
> In the same period (few weeks ago) I bought a Blackhawk Flashlight Holder for my Tactical Light from the US, value $ 16.80 shipping was. . . .$28,00 !!!!
> And 2 pouches and a holster from Hongkong. Value $ 18,00, shipping was $2.00)
> Both paid with Visa up front, Hongkong delivery took 6 days, US delivery took 4 weeks.
> ...


 
Oddly even though something is handled by the USPS when it comes from Hong Kong the shipping cost from Hong Kong to a U.S. destination (just as an example) is very low cost. In fact I'd say it's probably cheaper to ship from Hong Kong to New York than it is from California to New York. Obviously when something is shipped Internationally if the sending country has an economy that is far different than the receiving country you'll see a big difference in rates. I've often wondered how that works as far as USPS having to handle mail from overseas when the postage is paid and collected in Hong Kong at their low rates.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



JacobJones said:


> And many of the USA dealers charge extortionate shipping fees. I wanted to purchase* a sunforce hid spotlight from northerntool,* so I emailed them to ask if they could *ship to the uk and how much it would cost.... They quoted 70 dollars just for shipping and handling. I used the calculator thing on the usps website and they could have sent it for about half that. *Getting hid spotlights from America is a pita. Only way to get good hid spotlights here in the uk is spend a fortune on ridiculous shipping fees or build them yourself.
> 
> Conclusion: a lot of us sellers need to work on international shipping.



If you are going to make specific claims, you should expect that someone will check your assertions.

You will note that I enlarged the text, and added links first to that specific light at Northern Tools, then to the USPS shipping page to UK.

On the NT site, you will see they list the shipping weight as 15 pounds. Next we go to the USPS link, and when you select "Large Package" the next screen asks for the box measurements. Wouldn't it be an amazing coincidence if I just happened to have a Northern Tool HID box to be able to take the measurements? :devil:

I do, and they are 13 inches x 11 inches x 10 inches. Now despite the fact that the actual mailing box with packing would be even larger than the product box, go ahead and input those size measurements with the 15 pounds, and see what mailing prices you get. Well, if you can't be bothered, I did it for you. 

*Priority Mail International* (which has no tracking) is $71.20 at the Post Office, or $67.64 which with packing and handling comes out to your quoted $70.

*Express Mail International *(which does provide tracking) is $97 & $90 respectively.

*Conclusion: Your shipping quote was spot on, and you intentionally misrepresented the scenario to score conversation points. Bad form sir. Bad form.*


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



uknewbie said:


> You could insist that all purchases are sent with a fully trackable service. If the customer is not willing to pay for this, or their country does not offer it, then do not sell, rather than just never selling to anyone anywhere outside your own country.
> 
> You could have had the same problem if you sent those battery packs to someone in the USA without tracking. The issue there was you not having proof of receipt, not where you sent it.



I could insist that all purchases are sent with a minimum of Express Mail International which costs $32 for 1 pound, $36 for 2 pounds, $41 for 3 pounds, and represents a significant expense for a $40-60 battery pack. In reality, I continued to sell to some CPF members who are well known and have established a respected reputation here...but I had to make my official policy a consistent, blanket policy.

I would not have had the same problem if I sent the item within the USA. Apparently you did not read the part in my last post where I talked about a number of countries having very protective laws if there is a dispute with someone living there. We don't have that obstacle with payment disputes as the example I gave shipping to Malaysia. A free Delivery Confirmation with online Priority Mail is adequate confirmation that the other USA party received the item (unless it is a higher dollar amount).


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## iapyx (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



LuxLuthor said:


> I could insist that all purchases are sent with a minimum of Express Mail International which costs $32 for 1 pound, $36 for 2 pounds, $41 for 3 pounds, and represents a significant expense for a $40-60 battery pack. In reality, I continued to sell to some CPF members who are well known and have established a respected reputation here...but I had to make my official policy a consistent, blanket policy.
> 
> I would not have had the same problem if I sent the item within the USA. Apparently you did not read the part in my last post where I talked about a number of countries having very protective laws if there is a dispute with someone living there. We don't have that obstacle with payment disputes as the example I gave shipping to Malaysia. A free Delivery Confirmation with online Priority Mail is adequate confirmation that the other USA party received the item (unless it is a higher dollar amount).




I can aknowledge this. I had a 3 pound package (UB3T) sent from Boston to The Hague (Netherlands) and it cost 41 USD. (only 29 Euros) It could not be sent for less.


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## uknewbie (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



bansuri said:


> Uknewbie...we'll have to just disagree on this one.


 
I don't agree to that


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## Grizzlyb (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

matrixshaman, 
Thanks for the explanation, I didn't think of it that way. 
For us Europeans, stuff in the US is much cheaper. 
The extreme shipping US costs force us to buy from Hongkong, (even when we don't like it). 
An other strange thing thou, When I buy stuff from Amazon, the shipping is about the same as from China. 
I bought some guitar building books, and had to pay about $3,00 for shipping. So apparently it is not only UPS?


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## Mr Bigglow (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

Eurofolks pay more due to duty, tariffs, and taxes- plus inefficient vendors who know they can charge more.

Another reason US companies won't/don't sell to us foreigners (I'm a Canadian) is due to a mistrust amounting to fear. And for some reason, that particularly applies to Texas. Since the WWW got started, I have made perhaps a dozen attempts to buy something from that many Texas companies and just been told "nope!" I love Texas and Texans by the way, but that is a fact.


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## Grizzlyb (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I always pay up front, so that shouldn't be a problem. 
Probably with a lot of US vendors, the "hassle" scares them of ?
I never had this problem in any other country. I order stuff from Australia, Korea, Spain, Italy Greece, GB, Germany, France, never had a problem.


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## shao.fu.tzer (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I've been shipping to international peeps since 2005 and have only lost 2 packages... I would prefer if buyers used a traceable shipping option, but I always offer cheap shipping as well to save them money. I haven't had a single Paypal dispute raised against me since I've been selling in the MP. If one is ever raised against me (and it's inevitable), then I may be forced to change my international shipping policies. For anyone who's interested the packages that were unaccounted for were shipped to Australia and Malaysia. 

Shao


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## uknewbie (Aug 30, 2011)

shao.fu.tzer said:


> I've been shipping to international peeps since 2005 and have only lost 2 packages... I would prefer if buyers used a traceable shipping option, but I always offer cheap shipping as well to save them money. I haven't had a single Paypal dispute raised against me since I've been selling in the MP. If one is ever raised against me (and it's inevitable), then I may be forced to change my international shipping policies. For anyone who's interested the packages that were unaccounted for were shipped to Australia and Malaysia.
> 
> Shao


 
Kudos to you. Point well made. I have never had a package not reach it's destination, including many I have sent to flashaholic friends in the USA.

I also had a very nice transaction with DimeRazorBack who sent me a mint Jetbeam M1x from sunny Australia, no problems.

Would be nice to see universal world trading, professional and enthusiast alike.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



Mr Bigglow said:


> Eurofolks pay more due to duty, tariffs, and taxes- plus inefficient vendors who know they can charge more.



They chose their destiny. It does remind me of how many INSIST that I mark the amount as <$5 and "gift" so they don't have to pay duty....like it is their right to demand. LOL!



Mr Bigglow said:


> Another reason US companies won't/don't sell to us foreigners (I'm a Canadian) is *due to a mistrust amounting to fear. *And for some reason, that particularly applies to Texas. Since the WWW got started, I have made perhaps a dozen attempts to buy something from that many Texas companies and just been told "nope!" I love Texas and Texans by the way, but that is a fact.



If I had been drinking coffee when reading that, I would have sprayed it onto my keyboard. That is absolutely preposterous. 

Several of us have given clear-cut, respectful, and legitimate reasons that international shipping can have significant obstacles, based on real-life experiences. 

To see the same people continuing to troll-post on the same issue, ignore the legitimate responses, and now seeing someone interjecting emotional "due to a mistrust amounting to fear" says more about the person writing that than any seller in the USA. 

I'm a "yankee" living in Connecticut, who's heart lies in Texas. I'm telling you right now, *don't mess with Texas.* They are the last remaining bastion of what this country was founded upon.


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## LuxLuthor (Aug 30, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

I'm now hoping that a mod will realize this thread has run its course, and put it out of its misery.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



Grizzlyb said:


> matrixshaman,
> Thanks for the explanation, I didn't think of it that way.
> For us Europeans, stuff in the US is much cheaper.
> The extreme shipping US costs force us to buy from Hongkong, (even when we don't like it).
> ...


 
I believe a lot of things you get through Amazon come from individuals and you may not know where they are located. Amazon can also have some really low or even free shipping prices. I think they have figured out ways to do this and I think some of it is because they have shippers all over the globe. So your $3 shipping might have been low because it was routed through some nearby location. Other possibility is that media mail (like books) is one of the few things that can be shipped in the U.S. at very very low cost compared to other things.


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## matrixshaman (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*



LuxLuthor said:


> I'm now hoping that a mod will realize this thread has run its course, and put it out of its misery.


 
Ahh yea Lux - always wanting to have the last word .... 

LOL. But yeah I agree this has been discussed enough in the past to get cross eyed over.


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## uknewbie (Aug 31, 2011)

LuxLuthor said:


> I'm now hoping that a mod will realize this thread has run its course, and put it out of its misery.


 
Why? If you don't feel a thread is of any interest to you then don't read it, why would you want it closed?

What is the point in a discussion forum where discussion is prohibited?

Jeez, there are tons of threads I think are pointless, I don't chime in and ask they all get closed. Poor show.


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## DM51 (Aug 31, 2011)

*Re: International Shipping - What's so hard???*

The topic is probably worth revisiting from time to time when security procedures and/or other circumstances change, to allow the question to be re-asked and re-answered in light of such changes. 

Very clear illustrations have been given of the hoops that members in some countries have to jump through in order to ship items overseas, and the pitfalls they face when they do it. These difficulties are familiar to those who have been members here for some time and have encountered reluctance on the part of some US sellers (for example) to ship to overseas customers. The majority of members understand those difficulties; but ultimately, it is immaterial whether they understand them or not, because however loud they complain about it, it's not going to change - a seller cannot be *obliged* to ship items overseas if he considers the risks unacceptable.

Further discussion at this stage is unlikely to be worthwhile, as it has all been said; there's no point in running around in circles and clouding the issue. We'll close the thread for the time being, with a view to re-opening it at some point in the future if circumstances change.


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