# Fire-Foxes III compared to Magic Scorpion 40W and 85W Ebay HID...



## jayrob (Jun 14, 2012)

Got my FF3 today from Lips' GB... 

It is so small and lightweight!











I'm using the new 3400mAh Panasonic cells for the FF3 as well as the Magic Scorpion 40W... (NCR18650B)

Does the FF3 have a little whine? Yes it does...

Is it a little 'floody'? Yes it is...

Does it matter? *Not at all!* 

The palm trees are about 200 yards away:














It out shines and out throws both of the other lights shown. Even the 85W ebay HID, which is quite disappointing for the ebay HID performance...

I think it's actually a great thing that it has a lot of spill in my opinion. It doesn't take away from the throw. Maybe it could have even better throw, but in comparison to these other lights, it wins! (IMO)

It's more dramatic in person vs the pictures...

So small!

Thanks so much for the GB! :thanks:





*Update:*

See here for updated comparison beam shots after changing the bulb color temp to 4300K for the Ebay HID:  (and my Mag HID mod too) 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...85W-Ebay-HID&p=3964916&viewfull=1#post3964916


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## mvyrmnd (Jun 14, 2012)

Awesome. Mine's somewhere between Miami and Sydney as I write this...

I can't wait.


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## jmpaul320 (Jun 14, 2012)

I got mine yesterday. What a great light. Color temp is just right too


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## mohanjude (Jun 14, 2012)

I got mine from Ma - I can do a comparison between FF3 and Magic Scorpion 65W.. I know which one will win.. FF3 due to its compact size..


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## jayrob (Jun 14, 2012)

Sure would like to see comparison beam shots between the FF3 vs the Scorpion 65W...

I was going to get the Scorpion 65W, but opted for the 40W because I figured with the supply capacity, 40W might be good. It is a nice light for the price and I'm very happy with it...


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## scheven_architect (Jun 14, 2012)

Too bad i ordered the 85w a few months ago...


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## jayrob (Jun 14, 2012)

*I've got some good news *for the Ebay HID lights! 

Just swapped out my ballast and bulb with a 4300K and it is a huge improvement!

I'll get a beam shot when it gets dark to compare, but I can tell in room light that it seems twice as bright...

And it was a 75W ballast/bulb instead of the 85W that I removed!

I had messaged the seller to ask if they can provide a custom ballast/bulb at 4300K, and it's the hot ticket for $31 bucks.

Also, if you do this, take note that there is excess lubricant on the inside of the head of the light, so you can clean all of that off with isopropyl alcohol because I noticed that it was smoking the lubricant during my burn in with reflector off... (make sure to clean the bulb with alcohol too just in case)

One more tip. There is a little room for 'tweaking' the bulb centering when you install the new ballast/bulb. So naturally if you get it perfectly centered, your light will perform better.

I'll post a beam shot tonight...


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## scheven_architect (Jun 14, 2012)

I would probably ruin my light trying to change bulb and ballast  still remains humonguous light so even it would perform 2 times better than the FF it still is huge.Maybe i should have considered that better before buying


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## jayrob (Jun 14, 2012)

Well in case you want to swap out the ballast/bulb, it's really easy, and can be done in a matter of about 5 minutes or less...

They have a video:


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## LuxLuthor (Jun 14, 2012)

Great review shots of that FF-3. I need to send payment to Lips after I get totals for everything. I thought he said he might have had some spare parts, and I asked him if he thought we should grab any spare things while the gettin's good--if he has them in hand.


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## jayrob (Jun 15, 2012)

LuxLuthor said:


> Great review shots of that FF-3. I need to send payment to Lips after I get totals for everything. I thought he said he might have had some spare parts, and I asked him if he thought we should grab any spare things while the gettin's good--if he has them in hand.




:thanks:

I just took three more comparison shots because I swapped out the stock ballast/bulb with a 4300K 75W for the Ebay HID... (same for my 75W Mag HID mod)

As the pictures will show, the (now 75W) Ebay HID will do better. Which it should. Since it has a larger reflector.

My Mag mod has a smaller reflector vs the FF3, but still does better since it is 75W vs 42W for the Fire-Foxes III... (I think the Mag mod wins over all 3 here) 














Having the 4300K bulbs made all the difference in the world! 

I like the beam profile of my Mag mod best, but the size/weight + cool factor of the FF3 is amazing! 

And it compares side by side with the 75W lights...





*Here's the Ebay HID* before and after side by side:


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## scheven_architect (Jun 15, 2012)

Ty for your detailed information/beamshots/links!
A few questions:

Could you send me a link where to buy the bulb/ballast you bought?
How much better is the throw with the new bulb/ballast, because pictures often are misguiding + different color temperature might be misleading as well.
How much runtime does a firefoxes III has?

Appreciate your help!


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## jayrob (Jun 15, 2012)

scheven_architect said:


> Ty for your detailed information/beamshots/links!
> A few questions:
> 
> Could you send me a link where to buy the bulb/ballast you bought?
> ...



The pictures don't even do it justice! 

Visually, it seems twice as bright after the 4300K swap...

Plus I got my bulb perfectly centered on the re-install, and I really love the Ebay HID light now!

I mean it's huge, but it has a very nice beam and throw. Plus the modes, and other safety features. Not too bad at all now that it has the 4300k bulb. 

I'll message you with a link to the ebay seller that I bought from because it seems to be against the rules to post links to sales sites. In fact, I just was in contact with them to ask about 85W 4300K, and they said they can get them for me for the same price...

About the Fire-Foxes III. Just Google "Fire-Foxes group buy' and you will find the link to all the specs. 

It has protection and low battery indicator. So the best cells are the new Panasonic 3400mAh 18650's. (NCR18650B) The light takes 4 cells.

Lips said about 65 minutes with Panasonic 3100mAh cells. So figure about 10% longer with the 3400mAh cells...

Anyway, I believe it's not against the rules to post a picture of the specs:


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## scheven_architect (Jun 15, 2012)

Sounds like it's worth the 30$. I am quite happy with the brightness of my 85W but it can never be bright enough . Also the color seems to be much more pleasant!
Maybe i'll buy a compact HID in a few years, probably even brighter and or smaller. Now i can't really justify the cost.
But it sounds that with the bulb upgrade the ebay HID beats the fire fox hands down (although being 3 times bigger)


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## Patriot (Jun 15, 2012)

A ton of spill from that 75W Ebay swap. Kudos to them for a really well done video also. After catching that huge moth next to lens in your photo the skyfish maniacs are going to flood your PM box. :laughing:

Great comparisons!


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## jayrob (Jun 15, 2012)

I was wondering when anybody was going to mention that moth...








scheven_architect said:


> Sounds like it's worth the 30$. I am quite happy with the brightness of my 85W but it can never be bright enough . Also the color seems to be much more pleasant!
> Maybe i'll buy a compact HID in a few years, probably even brighter and or smaller. Now i can't really justify the cost.
> But it sounds that with the bulb upgrade the ebay HID beats the fire fox hands down (although being 3 times bigger)



Yes I would say the 4300K ebay mod now beats the FF3, but it should, because of more power, and a larger reflector...

One thing not shown in beam shots, is the dot at close range. The FF3 blows them all away. It is perfectly centered and nice and round. Similar to a really bright LED. I'm guessing it's due to a perfectly set bulb position in a very well designed reflector made specifically for HID:










I can't believe how much light the Fire-Foxes III puts out. It seems like more than the 42W spec says.

It's so small and lightweight too. And I should also mention that it warms up twice as fast as the other lights I compared it to, including the Magic Scorpion...

The quality of the finish, and the workmanship is the highest. It is perfection!

It is comparable in brightness and throw to the larger, more powerful lights that I showed. 

At this point, it seems impossible to be any better. (size vs brightness)

Because if you go for more power, you will sacrifice run time and/or size...


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2012)

jayrob said:


> At this point, it seems impossible to be any better. (size vs brightness)
> 
> Because if you go for more power, you will sacrifice run time and/or size...



This has always been the case, yet, the performance of HID's still improves and the size of the lights continue to shrink


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## jayrob (Jun 15, 2012)

BVH said:


> This has always been the case, yet, the performance of HID's still improves and the size of the lights continue to shrink



And now it's at the point that they need to start shrinking the batteries!



(but add capacity as well) 

But yes of course your right. And advancements continue to be made in batteries too...


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## scheven_architect (Jun 15, 2012)

jayrob said:


> The quality of the finish, and the workmanship is the highest. It is perfection!
> 
> At this point, it seems impossible to be any better. (size vs brightness)



stop, it hurts


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## Thatspec (Jun 15, 2012)

Jayrob, can you say the step down to 24W after the FF3 has been on a while is noticeable when it happens? I think mine did it last night but it's hard to tell much difference, it must be a gradual decrease. So far at least I've never seen a sudden decrease in brightness. I haven't run it for more than 15 minutes at a time yet but my batteries were quite warm at that point, will try a longer run tonight (if I can stay awake until it gets dark, getting old isn't for sissies)...


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2012)

Noticeable like night and day. It's not a ramp down, it's sudden and very noticeable. In my 70 degree F garage, stationary, with no wind cooling it occurred in 5.5 minutes. You can also hear the step down "click".


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## jayrob (Jun 15, 2012)

Hmmm... Yeah I've not even run mine that long yet! Lol...

Just doing these test comparisons.

*Edit:* So I did test to see how long it takes to kick down, and mine 'clicked down' at 8 1/2 minutes in room temp. (75 degrees)

The 24W mode is still very bright! 



Thatspec said:


> Jayrob, can you say the step down to 24W after the FF3 has been on a while is noticeable when it happens? I think mine did it last night but it's hard to tell much difference, it must be a gradual decrease. So far at least I've never seen a sudden decrease in brightness. I haven't run it for more than 15 minutes at a time yet but my batteries were quite warm at that point, will try a longer run tonight (if I can stay awake until it gets dark, getting old isn't for sissies)...



On another point, Phil Ament showed me a link to a discussion about this thread here at CPF:
Public version of the CPF porter: Fire PK magic fire PK 85 watts

It's a discussion of this very thread over at the forum where all the FF3 people hang out, including the designer of it.

I guess per Google translate, we are 'foreigners' Lol!

There is one person that says 'the hands of the foreigners is really big'...






Thanks for the link!


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2012)

Just completed another step-down test with the light in constant motion simulating use. Got 6 minutes + or - 10 seconds in a 70 degree house.


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## scheven_architect (Jun 15, 2012)

Jayrob the bulb you replaced was a 85W ebay with a 'lower' 75W bulb/balast, what value of the ebay HID is overrated the bulb or the balast? The beamprofile improved as well (FFIII looks really smooth btw)?


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## jayrob (Jun 15, 2012)

scheven_architect said:


> Jayrob the bulb you replaced was a 85W ebay with a 'lower' 75W bulb/balast, what value of the ebay HID is overrated the bulb or the balast?



The only thing I know for sure, is that the ballast obviously must put out more current for higher rating...

I would guess that the bulb might also need to be equivalent. 

I will take a guess that my 4300K ballast/bulbs that I got (marked 75W), may actually be 85W??

But I don't know. I just say that because when I built my Mag HID mod, the 75W (8000K) ballast/bulbs that I got, gave an initial 7.5 Amps battery current draw on start up. Then the ballast quickly brings the HID bulb into full power within about 8 to 10 seconds. At that point, it draws 5.5 Amps steady.

But these new ones I got (4300K), just might really be 85W ones, because the current draw after warm up, is about an Amp more. (6.5 Amps)


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## scheven_architect (Jun 15, 2012)

These are some beamshots i took with my HID. It should be 85W/6000K, when warmed up the light doesn't seem really cold and blue compared to your pictures, so i don't know if that is the camera or mine is warmer than yours.


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## jayrob (Jun 15, 2012)

scheven_architect said:


> These are some beamshots i took with my HID. It should be 85W/6000K, when warmed up the light doesn't seem really cold and blue compared to your pictures, so i don't know if that is the camera or mine is warmer than yours.



Yeah it looks good in your pictures so it would be impossible to be sure unless the two were side by side...

However I did notice that all of those pictures looked yellowish. So it could be the camera or exposure...


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## Richie086 (Jun 15, 2012)

Hi Jayrob, thanks for all the work to put this thread together. A really great job and some wonderful HID's you've got there.


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## Thatspec (Jun 15, 2012)

Hey Thanks BVH, I'm running at 45-50 degrees typically. It's Juneuary here:shakehead. Maybe I'm just missing the step down, will pay closer attention tonight.

Do you think English to Chinese translates this poorly with G-translate also? "eBay HID weak burst, not much we heavenly goods"


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## jayrob (Jun 16, 2012)

I'll bet they made that comment before I posted the updated pictures after the 4300K bulb swap... 





Richie086 said:


> Hi Jayrob, thanks for all the work to put this thread together. A really great job and some wonderful HID's you've got there.



Your welcome!

Glad you like the comparisons...


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## Fusion_m8 (Jun 16, 2012)

Hi jayrob:

could you PM the name of the ebay seller where you got the 75w/85w 4300K ballast?

Thanks.


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## scheven_architect (Jun 16, 2012)

jayrob said:


> Yeah it looks good in your pictures so it would be impossible to be sure unless the two were side by side...
> 
> However I did notice that all of those pictures looked yellowish. So it could be the camera or exposure...



You're unmodded ebay light was blueish for the naked eye? Mine is at worst a slight tint of green when warmed up but not at all blue.


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## jayrob (Jun 16, 2012)

Yes mine was blue just like the picture...

Those pictures actually are very close to how it looks in person (the color), but in person, the lights seem much brighter than the pictures show...





Fusion_m8 said:


> Hi jayrob:
> 
> could you PM the name of the ebay seller where you got the 75w/85w 4300K ballast?
> 
> Thanks.



PM incoming...


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## scheven_architect (Jun 16, 2012)

Might have been an underpowered one you had, but like you say only by comparing them in person it would be properly visible if there is any difference.


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## Thatspec (Jun 16, 2012)

OK guys, I did see the step down to 24W on the FF3, along with the audible click at about 13 minutes of walking around in 55-60 degrees. It's still darn bright though, after a minute I couldn't remember how much brighter it had been. It was pretty hot after 30 minutes, I was keeping my hand further back toward the tail for comfort. Also heard the click when it was off and cooling, assuming this was the temp reset. 

Jayrob, your magmod looks awesome I've got to resist getting one of those 75W bulb/ballast combos but if I see the right host... (hmmm, FM is having that big sale:laughing


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## jayrob (Jun 17, 2012)

Thatspec said:


> OK guys, I did see the step down to 24W on the FF3, along with the audible click at about 13 minutes of walking around in 55-60 degrees. It's still darn bright though, after a minute I couldn't remember how much brighter it had been. It was pretty hot after 30 minutes, I was keeping my hand further back toward the tail for comfort. Also heard the click when it was off and cooling, assuming this was the temp reset.
> 
> Jayrob, your magmod looks awesome I've got to resist getting one of those 75W bulb/ballast combos but if I see the right host... (hmmm, FM is having that big sale:laughing



Thanks for the compliment! :thanks:

Details of the build shown *here...*


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## mvyrmnd (Jun 18, 2012)

Mine arrived today. I've taken a few comparison photos 

From left to right: Arlec Spotlight fitted with a 6000K 55W HID kit, FFIII, Jetbeam M1X V1 (3x18350) and my Mac's 3300L.











It's a very broad selection of lights, my biggest light, my newest, my only LED thrower and a massive flood monster. 

What this little comarison will show is just how capable the little FFIII is 

The tree is 120m away. A control shot is pointless as it would only be black  All the photos were taken with an iPhone 4S, on HDR mode and the exposure upped (all by the same amount) to get it a bit closer to real life.

55W HID Spotlight





FFIII





M1X





3300L





The 3300L puts out a huge amount of light, but it's all out of answers at 25m. The FFIII has quite a wide hotspot thanks to the OP reflector, but for lighting up a footy oval without making your arm tired, it's just magic. It's a little bit ridiculous seeing that amount of light coming from something so small. The M1X is outclassed in every way and it's clearly obvious that the 55W Spotlight's 7" reflector outguns eveything else.

In short, I like it a lot


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## jayrob (Jun 18, 2012)

Nice comparisons!

I like that Arlec mod. I built a similar spot light for KuanR, and still have it for him because he is out of the area and has not taken delivery yet...

But I didn't want to use it in my comparisons, because it just wasn't fair. It's a 100W 4300K with a 7" reflector that would just crush these smaller lights:










Details of the build shown *here...*

P.S. Can you PM me a link to where you got your host for the large yellow? I like that voltage indicator you have on there. Is that what that is? I would like to learn more about that build!


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## BVH (Jun 19, 2012)

Being the tinkerer and skeptic I am, I wanted to be sure my FF3 was putting out as advertised! First, it is definitely regulated. (Not that I had any question about this but always nice to confirm) As Voltage dropped while in use and fully warmed up, Amperage increased and the calculation always resulted in the same Watts (Input). When Voltage hit 13.00, Amps was 4.02 for a total Input Watts of 52.26. Using the familiar ballast efficiency of 80%, my FF3 is putting out 41.81 Watts to the bulb. Now for the usually disclaimer: Output is AC so to be 100% accurate, I'd need a special $2500+ meter capable of simultaneous, very high count Amp and Volt readings and of determining Power Factor Correction. But for us, it's close enough. Not sure why the Chinese translated FF3 thread was referring to something about a 5 Amp manual setting (by-passing step down)? They see 5 Amps and probably more like 8-9 Amps for a micro-second on start up but will never see 5 Amps when running after warm up. Not even when the cells are nearly empty at 3.0V.

After testing, I took it outside and with a 500-700 foot overcast ceiling, I could easily see a soft glow on the cloud bases.


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## jayrob (Jun 19, 2012)

BVH said:


> Being the tinkerer and skeptic I am, I wanted to be sure my FF3 was putting out as advertised! First, it is definitely regulated. (Not that I had any question about this but always nice to confirm) As Voltage dropped while in use and fully warmed up, Amperage increased and the calculation always resulted in the same Watts (Input). When Voltage hit 13.00, Amps was 4.02 for a total Input Watts of 52.26. Using the familiar ballast efficiency of 80%, my FF3 is putting out 41.81 Watts to the bulb. Now for the usually disclaimer: Output is AC so to be 100% accurate, I'd need a special $2500+ meter capable of simultaneous, very high count Amp and Volt readings and of determining Power Factor Correction. But for us, it's close enough. Not sure why the Chinese translated FF3 thread was referring to something about a 5 Amp manual setting (by-passing step down)? They see 5 Amps and probably more like 8-9 Amps for a micro-second on start up but will never see 5 Amps when running after warm up. Not even when the cells are nearly empty at 3.0V.
> 
> After testing, I took it outside and with a 500-700 foot overcast ceiling, I could easily see a soft glow on the cloud bases.



Good to know, thanks for measuring battery current draw...

At full charge what was it drawing from the batteries after warmed up? Maybe 3.5 Amps?


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## BVH (Jun 19, 2012)

I'm using AW IMR 1600's and had about 7 minutes run time on the batteries prior to the test so I don't know what steady Amps are with topped off cells. But I'm sure your 3.5 is in the ball park, maybe even a bit less.


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## jayrob (Jun 19, 2012)

Good to know...

:thanks:


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## Colonel Sanders (Jun 19, 2012)

My FFIII is clocking in at 224k lux at 1m and eating 18350 cells (not a typo...kids don't try this at home) at a clip of 4 every 10:51. Lovin' me some FFIII!!! :bow:


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## jayrob (Jun 19, 2012)

I've got 8 of those new Panasonic 3400mAh cells...  (NCR18650B)

They are really nice cells.

The Fire-Foxes III is unbelievable!


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## jayrob (Jun 21, 2012)

Worthy of the double post...

I just got news that the ebay seller has listed the lights with 4300K bulbs now.

I asked them to also list the bulb replacements for 4300K because of lots of people that already have the lights and want to get replacement bulbs. 

So that should be easy to find soon enough with a search for 'HID flashlight bulb 4300k'...


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## hahoo (Jun 21, 2012)

where can you buy this light ?


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## jayrob (Jun 21, 2012)

hahoo said:


> where can you buy this light ?



Which one? Fire-Foxes?


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## hahoo (Jun 21, 2012)

yeah...


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## jayrob (Jun 21, 2012)

hahoo said:


> yeah...



Since they don't like us to quote sale sites, you can just Google 'Fire-Foxes Group Buy'

Then you will see a link to the GB that Lips did...

From there, you can try to see if he is going to possibly do another GB, because there was a huge savings. Not only that, but these are just about impossible to get.


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## jmpaul320 (Jun 21, 2012)

i ran my ff3 infront of my air conditioner tonight for 20 mins lol .... no step down


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## jayrob (Jun 21, 2012)

jmpaul320 said:


> i ran my ff3 infront of my air conditioner tonight for 20 mins lol .... no step down



Mine stepped down after 8 1/2 minutes in normal room temp...

But the 24W is still very bright!

Can't believe this little cannon...


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## Colonel Sanders (Jun 22, 2012)

My top 4 lights right now are Barn Burner, Maxabeam, FF3, Mac's Customs 3840L.


Not bad company for the little guy.


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## jayrob (Jun 22, 2012)

Colonel Sanders said:


> My top 4 lights right now are Barn Burner, Maxabeam, FF3, Mac's Customs 3840L.
> 
> 
> Not bad company for the little guy.



Yeah hanging out with the big boys!

It's getting all the attention because of how bright it is, along with it's incredibly small size. 

But I should mention that the Magic Scorpion is also a very nice 40W HID!  (IMO)

It is comparable in throw, with a deeper reflector. The one thing that really stands out to me, is how quite the ballast is for the Scorpion...


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## mvyrmnd (Jun 22, 2012)

I've decided that the 3300L and the FFIII are a good match. Easily handheld, each hugely powerful, once a wall of light and the other with some punch.

I've been running on AW IMR 1600's. Mine stepped down after 9 mins while tailstanding on the kitchen table. The light cut out after 25 mins, the batteries came out at 3.5, 3.5, 3.1 and 2.6 volts. It appears I have one weak battery, but the circuit seems to be able to monitor them individually and cut out to protect the weaker cell. The others still had a good 20% left in them.


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## BVH (Jun 22, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> ............... The light cut out after 25 mins, the batteries came out at 3.5, 3.5, 3.1 and 2.6 volts. It appears I have one weak battery, but the circuit seems to be able to monitor them individually and cut out to protect the weaker cell. The others still had a good 20% left in them.



I would guess that each cell is not monitored for voltage but that the LVC circuit tripped on overall pack low Voltage. Further guessing that each of your cells recovered to your measured Voltage total of 12.7V in the time it took you to get them out and measure them but that the LVC tripped at 12V.


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## mvyrmnd (Jun 22, 2012)

I guess that'd be more likely 

So if my weak cell got much weaker it'd be over discharging and pushing the safety limits.

Time for new batteries!


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## BVH (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes, a very good point you make. LVC is not fool-proof protection for unprotected cells in Series. Best to charge all four cells in the same charger at the same time - even though the charger might have four independent circuits and you may get varying finish voltages. They're bound to be close, though. Or better yet, parallel charge them in a custom made cradle as I do.


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## mvyrmnd (Jun 23, 2012)

BVH said:


> Yes, a very good point you make. LVC is not fool-proof protection for unprotected cells in Series. Best to charge all four cells in the same charger at the same time - even though the charger might have four independent circuits and you may get varying finish voltages. They're bound to be close, though. Or better yet, parallel charge them in a custom made cradle as I do.



I've built a parallel charger for my unprotected 32650's I use in my 3300L to ensure they're properly balanced. They go in the same and come out 0.1V different. Not bad by my reckoning.

I do charge the 4 IMR's in the same charger and they all come out within 0.05V of each other, but it seems this one cell in particular is a bit weak.

For now I won't bother too much. I know I get a solid 20mins out of them, and will just avoid running it until shut off. Once I buy 4 new, dedicated cells for the FFIII I'll look into a dedicated, parallel, charger for them.


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## jmpaul320 (Jun 23, 2012)

anyone running the new panasonic 3400mahs? just wondering how much more runtime you are getting and how the cells run?

Im running sanyo 2600s now, they seem to fit better in the battery case... i tried aw3100s, they were a tight fit... i noticed running the sanyos, the light seems to get a little hotter faster... its the same thing when i run a single sanyo 2600 in a different light as well... maybe the discharge current is slightly higher from these cells?


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## mvyrmnd (Jun 23, 2012)

If that were the case, the IMR's I'm using would be getting toasty.

It's possible the lower the internal resistance of the cell (IMR is much lower than LiCo) the lower the temp of the cell when under load.

The 2600 would have a higher IR than the 3100, therefore run hotter under high load.


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## alby26 (Jun 26, 2012)

The firefoxes is incredible bright for its size, i need to buy one :naughty: !


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## Colonel Sanders (Jun 27, 2012)

mvyrmnd said:


> If that were the case, the IMR's I'm using would be getting toasty.
> 
> It's possible the lower the internal resistance of the cell (IMR is much lower than LiCo) the lower the temp of the cell when under load.
> 
> The 2600 would have a higher IR than the 3100, therefore run hotter under high load.



Yep. +1 :thumbsup: As well as the increased voltage sag (over a lower resistance cell) resulting in a higher amperage demand from the ballast. The FF3 is a VERY well regulated light so higher current would be the result of high resistance cells, not low resistance.


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## jayrob (Jun 27, 2012)

jmpaul320 said:


> anyone running the new panasonic 3400mahs? just wondering how much more runtime you are getting and how the cells run?
> 
> Im running sanyo 2600s now, they seem to fit better in the battery case... i tried aw3100s, they were a tight fit... i noticed running the sanyos, the light seems to get a little hotter faster... its the same thing when i run a single sanyo 2600 in a different light as well... maybe the discharge current is slightly higher from these cells?



I have the Panasonic 3400's, but have not done any comparisons with other cells...

I can tell you that they fit perfectly, and they seem to be awesome. But I have no current draw testing or anything like that. I would venture a guess that they will be among the best though!

Maybe we can talk Colonel Sanders into doing some testing! 

He showed some good testing on the Feilong 32650's that I carry here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?337710


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## Colonel Sanders (Jun 27, 2012)

*"Maybe we can talk Colonel Sanders into doing some testing!"*

That wouldn't be hard to do! :thumbsup: That is, of course, if the slow boat from China ever arrives. I'm still running on 18350s.


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## scheven_architect (Jun 27, 2012)

There now appears to be a 85W 4300k bulb as well


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## jayrob (Jun 27, 2012)

scheven_architect said:


> There now appears to be a 85W 4300k bulb as well



Yep... Good news for Ebay HID lights!

I asked them to put the 4300K bulbs/ballasts in their site because there are a bunch of people that already have the lights. I asked for the latest 85W, which I ordered at the same time...


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Colonel Sanders said:


> *"Maybe we can talk Colonel Sanders into doing some testing!"*
> 
> That wouldn't be hard to do! :thumbsup: That is, of course, if the slow boat from China ever arrives. I'm still running on 18350s.



Ok, my first test is done on a new bare Panasonic 3400. At a 4a load it holds voltage like an IMR cell. Starting voltage was 4.22v and I ended at 2.75v....how about *3305mah?!?* Again, that's at a *4a load* on a brand new cell with no cycles. If it's like most cells I've tested, it should pick up a little more with several more cycles.

Most impressive was it's ability to maintain voltage. :bow: Think of it as a hybrid IMR cell with 3400+ capacity. 

I am extremely pleased with this initial testing to say the least.

These cells should provide the FFIII better than 1 hr runtime even if the hot temp kickdown is prevented.


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## Phil Ament (Jul 23, 2012)

Colonel Sanders said:


> These cells should provide the FFIII better than 1 hr runtime even if the hot temp kickdown is prevented.



Hi there Colonel


When you mention the above I was just wondering if you had something particular in mind when it comes to preventing the thermal protection kickdown from activating, as I would be extremely interested in finding out just exactly how this may be implemented!


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## jmpaul320 (Jul 23, 2012)

I held mine in front of the ac and it didn't step down. I wonder once winter comes if we can expect long runtimes on high outside


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## jayrob (Jul 23, 2012)

Colonel Sanders said:


> Ok, my first test is done on a new bare Panasonic 3400. At a 4a load it holds voltage like an IMR cell. Starting voltage was 4.22v and I ended at 2.75v....how about *3305mah?!?* Again, that's at a *4a load* on a brand new cell with no cycles. If it's like most cells I've tested, it should pick up a little more with several more cycles.
> 
> Most impressive was it's ability to maintain voltage. :bow: Think of it as a hybrid IMR cell with 3400+ capacity.
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting back with your results!

I could tell from use that they were awesome cells, but it's good to see some real testing to verify...


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Phil Ament said:


> Hi there Colonel
> 
> 
> When you mention the above I was just wondering if you had something particular in mind when it comes to preventing the thermal protection kickdown from activating, as I would be extremely interested in finding out just exactly how this may be implemented!



Check out post #5 is the following thread... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...he-woods-II-SR51-vs-Firefox-I-vs-Fire-Fox-III

I'm thinking about a modified version of this. By modified I mean I think I can find a better insulator. I wonder how hot it gets between the reflector and board? I can do some testing and if it's not too tremendously hot I would like to use a piece of spray foam insulastion (the stuff in my walls and in my attic.) Closed cell spray foam has an R-value of 6.6/in. I haven't tested yet but I'd venture to say that it can take heat up at least over 300 degrees though I'm just guessing at this point.


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## Phil Ament (Jul 23, 2012)

Colonel Sanders said:


> Check out post #5 is the following thread... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...he-woods-II-SR51-vs-Firefox-I-vs-Fire-Fox-III
> 
> I'm thinking about a modified version of this. By modified I mean I think I can find a better insulator. I wonder how hot it gets between the reflector and board? I can do some testing and if it's not too tremendously hot I would like to use a piece of spray foam insulastion (the stuff in my walls and in my attic.) Closed cell spray foam has an R-value of 6.6/in. I haven't tested yet but I'd venture to say that it can take heat up at least over 300 degrees though I'm just guessing at this point.



Thanks a lot for the information Colonel, as I do appreciate it. I had actually already been aware of the post that you refer to above, however I had thought that maybe you had come up with an alternative solution. I too know that with an AC on it this would most probably either delay or totally prevent it, however I had also presumed that by mounting an air conditioner on it that my runtime may be significantly reduced! I also had thought that it may just make it a little bit harder to carry, mainly due to my rather small hands. Anyway I would really love to be kept informed about any of your solutions and their corresponding results, which I am also quite certain that you would be performing with absolute military precision!


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## Phil Ament (Jul 23, 2012)

Hey Colonel

Please don't take this the wrong way because it is just a little tip, and I am not trying to be a smart a#@e in any way. Are you aware of the fact that you can actually link directly to a specific post, just like this! All you have to do is to copy the link from the actual post number that is situated on the right hand side of the page of the specific post that you want the link to direct you to. Anyway I hope that it may come in quite handy!


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## Colonel Sanders (Jul 23, 2012)

You know, I had kinda forgotten about that. Thanks! 

You can also do this


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## BVH (Jul 23, 2012)

Hey Phil, what's happening with Mr. Stanley?


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## gerryccw (Sep 4, 2012)

Great review, I have mine FF-3 since 3weeks ago, It's Awesome!!!.. 
after light it on, just feel all LED flashlight seems downgrade of flashlight. :devil:
anyway, It's different grade of product, I still love my LED flash light for most of reason. 
however, if there is a competition, I will get my FF-3 for it !.


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## BeastFlashlight (Mar 27, 2013)

This thread is dead so I prob won't get an answer but does anybody know how FF3 and Magic Scorpion 65w compare as far as heat sinking goes? Of course Magic Scorpion has to have better heat sink but is it by a lot or just by a little?


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