# Led Lenser P14 VS Solarforce L2, and some questions



## lightseeker2009 (Aug 6, 2009)

I've bought the Solarforce L2 with a 220 Lumen LC-1 R2 single mode 3V-18V Led. Im using it with three rechargeble 18650 batteries. I was very happy with it but not so much anymore:mecry:The reason is that I've just today received my LED Lenser P14. And to be honest, its much brighter than the Solarforce.

My question is the following: How sure are we as customars that we get what we pay for? 

The P14 is only 180 Lumens on max mode. Its indicated on the packaging. Now to be very honest, I'm sure that my P14 is twice as bright as my Solarforce, and that is not at its max setting, but on high. Now they say on high the lumens output is about 75% that of the max setting. It feels to me that I own a only 100 lumens Solarforce while it was suposed to be 220 lumens.

Am I doing something wrong?

I did manage to find a 500 Lumens led drop in for my Solarforce on E-Bay but that must still be delivered. I will be very disappointed if this 500 Lumens Led only puts out 250 Lumens in the end. But for that I will have to wait and see.


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## Nyctophiliac (Aug 6, 2009)

Much as I like Led Lensers, it occurs to me that you must be comparing the throw of the P14 - i.e. at maximum focus - with the solarforce. The P14 hotspot will probably be brighter than the Solarforce one, but with less overall light coming out of the business end. Being optically focused like this it will be a real thrower. All the Lenser P and T lights have this focus for throw/flood operation. 

For instance, my Malkoff drop in puts out more light than my KD drop in, but with an aspherical lens, the KD will have a very tight bright hotspot, and will throw way farther. ( This is in the same Mag 3D housing )

I think you cannot compare directly a lensed type beam with a reflectored beam, as they have completely different characteristics.

They sound like two very good torches to me. 

Vive les differances!

I had a look at the MCE 500 lumen lots on ebay - they look very nice. Please post when you get them.


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. I almost thought I will get no replies since I'm too new on this forum.

But to come back to you. It was still daytime when I got the P14 so I did not compare them to see which is the better thrower. I just looked at their brightness against a wall inside my house. Its not even close. The P14 wins hands down. I agree that you can't compare two flashlights with different focus systems, but its very clear that the P14 is a lot brighter, and that with "only" 135 lumens on its second most powerfull setting. Makes you wonder.


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## HKJ (Aug 6, 2009)

lightseeker2009 said:


> I've bought the Solarforce L2 with a 220 Lumen LC-1 R2 single mode 3V-18V Led. Im using it with three rechargeble 18650 batteries. I was very happy with it but not so much anymore:mecry:The reason is that I've just today received my LED Lenser P14. And to be honest, its much brighter than the Solarforce.



Try using it with 16340 or CR123 batteries, it does not reach full brightness on 18650 batteries.
You can see my measurement with a 18650 battery in it here, after doing this graph I checked it with 2x16340 batteries and its output increased to be more in line with TK11 and RRT-2.


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## csshih (Aug 6, 2009)

well, he's using 3x18650.  I'd think that'd be enough for the driver.


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## HKJ (Aug 6, 2009)

csshih said:


> well, he's using 3x18650.  I'd think that'd be enough for the driver.



If the 3x18650 are used at the same time, then *yes!* But the standard L2 can only load one 18650 at a time.


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 6, 2009)

No I've bought it with a lot of extra parts. I did not know at the time of buying how good these new led flashlights are. I do own a 17 led handheld lantern with "superbright" led's so I never thought a LED could be so good. Therefore I also ordered two cell extenders for the Xenon HQ-12 550 lumens globe to work as its a 12 Volt globe. And a D36 head to accomodate the HQ-12. But I was very dissapointed as the globe went the moment I touched the clicky switch. Must say it was superbright for those few milliseconds!

The reason for this post is not to badmouth Solarforce. I mean I did put a replacement globe into it. So its not original equipment. For the price I think Solarforce is excellent. But I really don't think the R2 globe is 220 Lumens. Not by a mile.


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## Marduke (Aug 6, 2009)

Another case of believing advertising at face value...


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 6, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Another case of believing advertising at face value...


 
I just hope that does not apply to the Fenix TK40. Its still on its way to me via US airmail. But I've read so many great reviews about it that I'm sure it will be a 600+ lumen flashlight as advertized. Can't wait to get it, still have a week to go, apparently


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## HKJ (Aug 6, 2009)

lightseeker2009 said:


> No I've bought it with a lot of extra parts. I did not know at the time of buying how good these new led flashlights are. I do own a 17 led handheld lantern with "superbright" led's so I never thought a LED could be so good. Therefore I also ordered two cell extenders for the Xenon HQ-12 550 lumens globe to work as its a 12 Volt globe. And a D36 head to accomodate the HQ-12. But I was very dissapointed as the globe went the moment I touched the clicky switch. Must say it was superbright for those few milliseconds!
> 
> The reason for this post is not to badmouth Solarforce. I mean I did put a replacement globe into it. So its not original equipment. For the price I think Solarforce is excellent. But I really don't think the R2 globe is 220 Lumens. Not by a mile.




As I wrote above I measured the R2 module to just about the same as some other light with 200+ lumen, i.e. it can not be very far off.

But, the eye is easy to fool, do you only look at the bright spot or do you try to evaluate all the light? Some lights are concentrating the light in a thing beam and looks much brighter than other lights. Try comparing the following graph, with the one above. This one shows lux (Brightness) and lights like TK11 and RRT-2 are much better at concentrating the light, than the lights (I do not know how Led Lenser rates):


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## jake25 (Aug 6, 2009)

I think that w/ 3x18650 and a "blue" labeled LC-1 1 Mode R2 dropin the overall output is on par with any other flashlight out there. Anything between 200-250 lumens is "nearly the same". Albiet not the same but a 250 lumen light is not going to be "2x" as bright as a 200 lumen light.

With 3x18650 the LC-1 has the same output as most other Q5 lights, Fenix TK11, Fenix P3D, Eagletac P10C (I own the P10C and they're pretty much the same), etc etc. If you are disapointed w/ the LC-1 of the L2 you might be disapointed with anything else.

Or on the other hand you are doing as HKJ is saying that you are only looking at the focused spot and not looking at the flood. With daylight it's hard to really measure/notice the flood of lights due to your eyes.


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 6, 2009)

jake25 said:


> If you are disapointed w/ the LC-1 of the L2 you might be disapointed with anything else.
> 
> With daylight it's hard to really measure/notice the flood of lights due to your eyes.


 
No I won't be disappointed with anything else. The P14 impressed me a lot and I'm sure the TK40 that on its way will impress me even more.

Okay, night have passed so I could do proper testing and I can confirm that the P14 are brighter at its second most powerfull setting. I also closed the door in one very dark room and could clearly see a difference. And when I hold in the switch, well its very very bright. 

I will try to take a photo or two for the one's that might be interrested tonight.


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## jake25 (Aug 7, 2009)

lightseeker: What I meant is that you're going to be disappointed with any other Q5 light since they have roughly the same output.

Again are you looking at ceiling bounce or just the hotspot?


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 7, 2009)

If you mean by ceiling bounce the total light in the room, yes. I did not compare their spot brightness, allready convinced.

its just sad to know you've paid R493.00 for a flashlight, the P14, that is better than a upgraded flashlight totalling R1600.00 in parts and accesories . But I'm sure it will last me a lifetime so I will learn to live with it. 

I've decided to take of the cell extenders of the L2 and drive it with only one battery. Its now a very compact still very bright flashlight that will be left in my car for emergencies. 

I just thought I'd share my experience with everyone. 
You can't make a mistake with the P14. The only thing I would like to chance is the way the switch operates. I would have loved to have max power on the second click allready. For max power you need to keep the button pressed in. I don't like that very much.


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## jake25 (Aug 7, 2009)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/213123

For reference.


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 7, 2009)

Thanks. I've just read it. I'm sure I will break it but I will ask an electronics shop if they would be able to do the mod for me.


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## Metatron (Aug 7, 2009)

lightseeker2009 said:


> If you mean by ceiling bounce the total light in the room, yes. I did not compare their spot brightness, allready convinced.
> 
> its just sad to know you've paid R493.00 for a flashlight, the P14, that is better than a upgraded flashlight totalling R1600.00 in parts and accesories . But I'm sure it will last me a lifetime so I will learn to live with it.
> 
> ...


led lenser make excellent lights. period. now i have to chuckle when u say u spent R1600 on lights and stuff, it takes me back 35 years when i bought a new volvo six cylinder for R1000 when they decided to leave south africa...


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 7, 2009)

Yes, times have chanced.


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## jake25 (Aug 7, 2009)

I'm beginning to suspect you have a faulty dropin, lightseeker. I think what I'll do is send you another dropin

There is just no way the LED Lenser P14 is 2x as bright as the Solarforce L2. I'm not trying to defend the Solarforce in anyway, but if you think the R2 driven at ~1.0A is 1/2 as bright as the P14 you must have a faulty product.


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks for the offer but I've allready ordered a 500Lumens LED from e-bay. I'm sure that might do the trick


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## Marduke (Aug 8, 2009)

lightseeker2009 said:


> Thanks for the offer but I've allready ordered a 500Lumens LED from e-bay. I'm sure that might do the trick



You do realize that 500 "eBay lumens" are approxately 150 "real lumens", right?


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 8, 2009)

Marduke said:


> You do realize that 500 "eBay lumens" are approxately 150 "real lumens", right?


 
Well, that is why I started this thread. How do we know if something advertized is going to be like they claim its going to be?

As promised, here is some beamshots. I must say that I'm not totally satisfied with the quality of the photos. I don't know if I had to change settings on my camara or what but the first photo for instance was taken with my 82 Lumen Xenon flashlight and on the photo it looks better compared to the other two more powerfull flaslights but it actually lackt far behind in real life.











The second photo is with the L2. I like its spot focus combined with a bit of flood.










Here is the P14. Its focus is not so good as the reviews I've read suggested.











Okay, maybe not twice as brite but remember I can't hold in the button while taking the photo so this is at 75% power, ie: 135 Lumens. At full power it really looks a lot brighter.


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 8, 2009)

No man

I've posted the photos correctly, why can't it be seen?


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## jake25 (Aug 8, 2009)

lightseeker2009 said:


> No man
> 
> I've posted the photos correctly, why can't it be seen?




The photos must be uploaded onto something like photobucket.


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 8, 2009)

Okay. I've read the FAQ and it say You must click on "manage your attachements" But I don't see such a button anywhere. I'm also a member with another forum but there I can see and use the manage your attachment button. 

But I will then try the photobucket way.


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## Marduke (Aug 8, 2009)

lightseeker2009 said:


> Well, that is why I started this thread. How do we know if something advertized is going to be like they claim its going to be?



First off, NEVER, EVER, no matter what, buy ANY light off eBay. That is the first mistake in a recipe for disaster and/or disappointment. The sells have no idea what they are selling, and will put outrageous specs and infactual information up to sell any piece of crap they can get their hand on.

Look at lights which have been reviewed by respected reviewers, and buy from trusted dealers who actually know what they are selling.


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## Linger (Aug 8, 2009)

Jake - awfully generous of you. another reason I love cpf.



lightseeker2009 said:


> Well, that is why I started this thread. How do we know if something advertized is going to be like they claim its going to be?



It never will be. Advertizing is not truth telling. I suspect you probably haven't been disillusioned yet with the realization that 'the news' is a product to sell you to the companies that run their commercials.

anyway, simple rule, everything you see is lies except for reviews here on CPF.


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## csshih (Aug 8, 2009)

linger said:


> Jake - awfully generous of you. another reason I love cpf.



:thumbsup:



linger said:


> It never will be. Advertizing is not truth telling. I suspect you probably haven't been disillusioned yet with the realization that 'the news' is a product to sell you to the companies that run their commercials.
> 
> anyway, simple rule, everything you see is lies except for reviews here on CPF.


well, 4Sevens lights are also rather well rated


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## [email protected] (Aug 9, 2009)

Marduke said:


> First off, NEVER, EVER, no matter what, buy ANY light off eBay. That is the first mistake in a recipe for disaster and/or disappointment. The sells have no idea what they are selling, and will put outrageous specs and infactual information up to sell any piece of crap they can get their hand on.




There are exceptions to that rule, it is possible to get a bargain or two on 'Fleabay' if you're in the right place at the right time (and know your product), for example the yellow/green Avaitor A2s purchased by DimeRazorback were almost half local retail (shipped), my Maglites were a similar cost saving exercise :thumbsup:


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 9, 2009)

I bought my TK40 on E-Bay. I must still receive it though. The only reason why I bought it there is because its seemed like the easiest way to import it. This was my first item ever ordered myself internationally. Unfortunately there is no shop in South Africa that sells TK40's, so I "had to" buy on E-Bay. If I could have bought one locally I would have, even if it might have been a little bit more expensive.


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## [email protected] (Aug 9, 2009)

lightseeker2009 said:


> I bought my TK40 on E-Bay. I must still receive it though. The only reason why I bought it there is because its seemed like the easiest way to import it. This was my first item ever ordered myself internationally. Unfortunately there is no shop in South Africa that sells TK40's, so I "had to" buy on E-Bay. If I could have bought one locally I would have, even if it might have been a little bit more expensive.



Do a bit more looking first and you will find:

http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=696

http://goinggear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=102



www.[B]lighthound[/B].com/Fenix-*TK40*-Cree-MC-E-Flashlight-HA-III-Black-Finish_p_428.html

_All of these have had positive feedback from CPF'ers._


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## csshih (Aug 9, 2009)

alrighty, here are some beamshots with quite a few popular 1-2 celled lights,also posted on my t20c2 thread.
there is a solarforce dropin the CL1H...

CL1H is the host..I have a Solarforce LC-1 3 Mode in there, the MD2 is also a host.. I have a Malkoff M60 in there.





On High:

Tiablo A9, Hoyttech HL-1, Eagletac T20C2, Fenix TK11, Barbolight T-04, Dereelight CL1H V4 W/LC-1 3 mode dropin, Malkoff MD2 w/Malkoff M60 dropin















On Low:


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 9, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Do a bit more looking first and you will find:
> 
> http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=696
> 
> ...


 
Yes, but at the time I don't think I was a member here yet, or still very new. I once tried to import a green laser for one of my airguns from more than one supplier and was always stopped at the last step as "we don't currently send these items to your country" So I did not even try it with this flashlight. But thanks for the links. They will be used next time around


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## Marduke (Aug 9, 2009)

lightseeker2009 said:


> Yes, but at the time I don't think I was a member here yet, or still very new. I once tried to import a green laser for one of my airguns from more than one supplier and was always stopped at the last step as "we don't currently send these items to your country" So I did not even try it with this flashlight. But thanks for the links. They will be used next time around



Green lasers are banned from import in many countries. Flashlights aren't.


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## lightseeker2009 (Aug 9, 2009)

I'f I only knew sooner...
But I will keep holding thumps that the E-Bay supplier is not a fake:thumbsup:
Can't wait to get it.


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## Tom_123 (Aug 9, 2009)

I did some comparison for an educated guess:

2-minute runtime of the following lights:
LedLenser P14, 4 x AA Eneloops
Solarforce L2 with a 5 mode R2 drop in of unkown origin, Solarforce 18650 battery 
(not sure if it is a Solarforce or a DX drop in)
Olight M20 R2, 2x CR123
Wolf-Eyes Sniper MC-E, Solarforce 18650 battery.






If you prefer numbers, here’s an extract from the table:






So from the lights I own, I’d say the LedLenser P14 has the edge in turbo mode.
But turbo mode of the P14 just works with momentary and so
it is pretty useless for most of the jobs.

At High mode it is in the range with the common Q5/R2 lights and it is in no way
twice as bright as these other lights.
So I’ with Jake and my best bet would be that you got a faulty L2 drop in.
More so as the L2 1 mode drop ins are known to be brighter than the 5 mode drop ins.

Because of the zoom feature of the P14 it is anyway hard to compare this light visually 
with common lights with an OP reflector.
Even my test set up has some problems here and I got a deviation of about 10%
within the zoom range.







Hope that helps somehow

Thomas


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## jake25 (Aug 9, 2009)

Tom , to further your point, I believe you're using only 1x18650 which runs it in Direct Drive. While lightseeker is going 3x18650 which will give it full power (210 lumens tested by Gman) which runs the dropin in regulation.


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