# The Malkoff M61!



## Liteskr42

*when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

When do you guys think Malkoff Devices will upgrade their dropins to at least xre-R2? I have seeen a cpl CPFrs have them but no mass production. It would be real cool if they went to XPG but at least R2 in XRE would be nice. I want one but would wait if an upgrade was within a month . Would hate to get one and then have new ones come out. Anyone heard anything?


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## yalskey

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Yeah, I would like to know the same thing. What do they use now? Q5's?


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## Dead_Nuts

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I too am anxiously awaiting upgraded emitters in Gene's products.

BUT, I understand him taking his own sweet time about it. He has built a reputation in the tactical community for bullet-proof products. I'm talking folks who would have used nothing but Surefire just a few short years ago. People whose lives depend on their equipment.

With those kinds of expectations and the pressure to perform, you tend to take your time and get things right.


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## JohnF

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I don't know about his P60 drop ins, but his new 2-3D Mag drop in with XPG is sure a thing of beauty in beam, tint, output, and build quality-wise.

John F


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## yalskey

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



JohnF said:


> I don't know about his P60 drop ins, but his new 2-3D Mag drop in with XPG is sure a thing of beauty in beam, tint, output, and build quality-wise.



Yeah, I was just checking those out. Anybody know the bin of the emitter he's using? It says it's 260 lumens out-the-front... so I'm guessing that is about 340-ish emitter lumens?

BTW, not to hijack this thread but can anyone provide a link to a simple graph that shows mA on one axis and emitter lumens on the perpendicular axis? Like for a given emitter, if I put int 800 mA, what emitter lumens do I get? I have never been able to find those charts. I've found super complex charts on cree's website, but nothing my little mind could handle.


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## THE_dAY

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

yalskey, the only chart I have is for the xpg R5, found it somewhere here on the forum:


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## bdusseau

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I was told yesterday that:"I just talked with Malkoff today and it will be March before we get the new M60's in stock.

They are swapping over to the new design with XP-G emitter with reflector"
Can't wait.


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## mwaldron

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



bdusseau said:


> They are swapping over to the new design with XP-G emitter with reflector"
> Can't wait.



So they're dropping the optic on the M60s? 

I hope they have a great reflector setup, I love my optic. Not to mention they also rely on the optic to provide a lens for the MD2...


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## Sgt. LED

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Gene used to use reflectors.


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## RichS

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



mwaldron said:


> So they're dropping the optic on the M60s?
> 
> I hope they have a great reflector setup, I love my optic. Not to mention they also rely on the optic to provide a lens for the MD2...


 
Agreed - I love the beam the Malkoff P60 w/ optic delivers. It easily beats my best P60 w/ reflector dropin (Dereelight) in terms of throw and overall beam quality while maintaining plenty of usable spill. 

Besides that, I would hate to see a complete move to reflectors simply due to the efficiency loss in comparison to an optic. Besides sending more light OTF, it seems like the right optic would be able to better focus an XPG for more throw.


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## Alberta-Blue

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



RichS said:


> Agreed - I love the beam the Malkoff P60 w/ optic delivers. It easily beats my best P60 w/ reflector dropin (Dereelight) in terms of throw and overall beam quality while maintaining plenty of usable spill.
> 
> Besides that, I would hate to see a complete move to reflectors simply due to the efficiency loss in comparison to an optic. Besides sending more light OTF, it seems like the right optic would be able to better focus an XPG for more throw.


 
Im going to give Gene the benefit of the doubt and say that he knows what he is doing. The fact is that I doubt an optic exists yet that can do for an XP-G what Genes optic does for the XR-E, hense why he is still using them.

Also when it comes to tactical lighting solutions, throw isnt everything. Your not going to be engaging a subject at 300m using a P60L/M60 style drop in, IF your using the visable light spectrum at all.

The reason for the more difuse hotspot on the SF products (and I SUSPECT on Malkoff's) is to find the right compromise between throw and flood so that you have the most usable tac light possible. Most officers that I know prefer to have the SF P60L style beam... just a whole lot brighter, which is why so many officers were drawn to Malkoff's M60.

Ill be in for am XP-G M60 and M30 when they are released


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## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Hmm, interesting . I thought the whole idea of the optics was to remove the fragile glass window from the reliability equation? They just came out with the eseries VME head and now they are gonna switch to reflectors and glass?

3 months estmate , add another 1-2 months more onto that for real world Murphys law delays and we are looking at Spring. Hmmm, maybe I should just get one.....thats a lifetime in flashlight time. But then its gonna be the same issue again, there will be a whole new generation of briter more efficient leds beyond the XPG .


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## yalskey

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



THE_dAY said:


> yalskey, the only chart I have is for the xpg R5, found it somewhere here on the forum:



Thanks my friend... that's basically what I'm looking for.

Anyone know where to find all the other emitter / bin charts like this?


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## funkymonkey1111

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

did you ask anyone at Malkoff, instead of seeking speculation from an internet board?


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## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



funkymonkey1111 said:


> did you ask anyone at Malkoff, instead of seeking speculation from an internet board?


 
I have had some recent correspondence with G. Malkoff and can relate that the following is correct:



Alberta-Blue said:


> The fact is that I doubt an optic exists yet that can do for an XP-G what Genes optic does for the XR-E, hense why he is still using them.


 
He is currently working on an XP-G reflector design due to the optic situation as above. He is also working on some new XPG-specific driver designs for both the M60 and M30, which was of great interest to me.

He has given me permission to post this information but wanted me to add that he has stated that everything is still in R&D and has not yet been finalized.



RichS said:


> I love the beam the Malkoff P(editM)60 w/ optic delivers. It easily beats my best P60 w/ reflector dropin (Dereelight) in terms of [...] overall beam quality while maintaining plenty of usable spill.


A big +60 here. :huh:


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## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Nah, I didnt , I just love specualtion and unsubstantiated rumors!!!!! It makes for such tasty entertaining reading dont ya think??:devil::nana:


Thanx for doing my work for me Kestrel!!

Unfortunately I still cant seem to make a decision to wait or not. :shakehead If its all still in R/D then maybe I will jsut get one


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## Dude Dudeson

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Ooooh, M-60 with XP-G and a REFLECTOR!

The one and only thing I've disliked about my M-60 is it just plain looks like crap (while installed) compared to the stock P-60L. That white plastic ring with the three holes in it - ugh, cheapo looking! I've wished so many times that thing was black instead of white. But of course the unit is just so awesome you live with that.

If Gene can make the XP-G work as well, let alone better, with a reflector I will be all over it!


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## brianch

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I'm still waiting for my well regulated 3 stage R5 drop-in. Common! Somebody make one!


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## MrGman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I have had the same info from Gene as well but I was keeping it mumm. I spoke with him on the phone before Christmas. Since he is letting the cat out of the bag then I guess its okay now. He is working on a reflector that is specifically matched or will be matched to the XP-G to give it a good beam pattern and not just throw the XP-G into something that is already out there. It won't work with his current optics. It will use a driver specific to its lowered voltage needs and being the type of guy he is, he want's to make sure it works right and is going to be something worth having before he puts it out on the market. I will add that he told me specifically he was able to get more than 300 out the front lumens on the prototype he was working on at very reasonable current drive. Since he is using the integration sphere system I set up and gave him, it would be hard for me to doubt those readings. So something awesome is on its way. Just a question of what that final beam pattern will look like. something with over 300 real OTF lumens at the power consumption of what the previous M60's were would be a very nice improvement. 


"Liteskr42: 3 months estmate , add another 1-2 months more onto that for real world Murphys law delays and we are looking at Spring. Hmmm, maybe I should just get one.....thats a lifetime in flashlight time. But then its gonna be the same issue again, there will be a whole new generation of briter more efficient leds beyond the XPG . This is almost Surefire type dillema here:scowl: "

Isn't this a little bit much to complain that something you shouldn't even know about yet is taking too long to come to market and comparing it to a company who puts things in sales brochures that you may not ever get to see or comes out 2 years later? There's no dilemma here (or dillema either). A lot of early to market production models of a new type of LED typically aren't all that impressive compared to those who take their time, do their homework and take full advantage of the new model's characteristics and then put out an outstanding product somewhat later. Yeah so maybe they will really be out in May, so what. If he told you they were coming out last June, and didn't then you would have something to gripe about. If you are saying but some better LED will come along by May and he should have used that instead, your really just being ridiculous and a little obnoxious for no good reason. Those who rush off to market with supposedly "cutting edge" technology oftern wind up just bleeding all over their production floor. :shakehead G.


That being said, Gene, hurry up, I know I need 2 of them.


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## Dude Dudeson

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



MrGman said:


> I will add that he told me specifically he was able to get more than 300 out the front lumens on the prototype he was working on at very reasonable current drive.



Well there's a future sale right there! Ah, but what will I do with my current M-60 - I know, I'll have to buy another host for it and relegate it to another backup light, oh boy, that's it, I am now CORRUPTED!

I was up to six lights, gave two away and sold one, now I'm down to three, but pretty much plan on buying a couple more Quark Mini 123's, or maybe just one more and an AA version for the hell of it, crap I'm starting to become a true flashaholic - which I define as having way more lights than one actually needs.

Well I'm pretty much already there!


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## Alberta-Blue

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



MrGman said:


> ... That being said, Gene, hurry up, I know I need 2 of them.


 
Amen... I love Gene's stuff. Im in for 1 or 2 of em as well. Any word on an M30 R5? :huh:


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## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Thanx for the extra input MrGman. Not trying to be obnoxious and I apologize to all if I am coming across that way. 
After reading yours and others reviews/reports on Malkoff dropins and such I realized they are the "cream of the crop" in dropins. My inability to make a decision and my severe lack of funds are my issues and I didnt mean to come across as complaining about Mr. Malkoffs products or business. I was merely just lamenting on my plight which will keep me up at night until I finally make a decision. I missed a used M30 on the MP yesterday . I am gonna end up getting an M60 or M30 but once again there is another of my personal dilemmas. The M30 is great on 1 18650 but cant run on primaries. The M60 has a broader voltage range but that would mean I have to get more parts and more batts. then there is the Flood vs. 8 degree optiq. I love lights but cant make a decision to save my proverbial ***!!!


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## yalskey

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Liteskr42 said:


> Thanx for the extra input MrGman. Not trying to be obnoxious and I apologize to all if I am coming across that way.
> After reading yours and others reviews/reports on Malkoff dropins and such I realized they are the "cream of the crop" in dropins. My inability to make a decision and my severe lack of funds are my issues and I didnt mean to come across as complaining about Mr. Malkoffs products or business. I was merely just lamenting on my plight which will keep me up at night until I finally make a decision. I missed a used M30 on the MP yesterday . I am gonna end up getting an M60 or M30 but once again there is another of my personal dilemmas. The M30 is great on 1 18650 but cant run on primaries. The M60 has a broader voltage range but that would mean I have to get more parts and more batts. then there is the Flood vs. 8 degree optiq. I love lights but cant make a decision to save my proverbial ***!!!



Yeahhhhhh.... maybe you shouldn't take this to seriously... it's flashlights dude, not a Mexican soap opera


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## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

HAHA I know dude!!! I have OCD so when I get on a new obsession or "hobby" I go way over the deep end. 
I do appreciate everyones input though


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## MrGman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Liteskr42 said:


> Thanx for the extra input MrGman. Not trying to be obnoxious and I apologize to all if I am coming across that way.
> After reading yours and others reviews/reports on Malkoff dropins and such I realized they are the "cream of the crop" in dropins. My inability to make a decision and my severe lack of funds are my issues and I didnt mean to come across as complaining about Mr. Malkoffs products or business. I was merely just lamenting on my plight which will keep me up at night until I finally make a decision. I missed a used M30 on the MP yesterday . I am gonna end up getting an M60 or M30 but once again there is another of my personal dilemmas. The M30 is great on 1 18650 but cant run on primaries. The M60 has a broader voltage range but that would mean I have to get more parts and more batts. then there is the Flood vs. 8 degree optiq. I love lights but cant make a decision to save my proverbial ***!!!


 
just leave out the " :scowl: " sign and you will not be perceived as being pi$$ed off. As to the personal dilemma, welcome to the club. I have 27 lights because I can't let go. Soon to be 29 I guess. You can run the M60 off of the 18650 battery at mildy reduced output and longer run time. For my first general purpose light or for my main EDC general carry light I would always pick the medium thrower over the pure flood. I have 3 flood lights and I use them, but in my pocket is an M60 type light that always gets used first. Hope that helps.


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## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

It does help alot. I found the beam shots you did and they put the different beam characteristics into perspective. 
Its really the battery support right now. I have a bored C2 coming and have a cpl 18650s already. That would support the M30 dropin but I always think about SHTF scenarios and not having a charger available and needing to use primaries for a bit. Thats where the M60 would come in. I am starting to hedge toward the M60 and though it would be slightly lower output on 1x18650 the ability to use primaries and maybe upgrade to an A19 xtender and 2x18650s or 18500s would be nice. 

Smiley has been removed from original post , I gotta stop using those stupid things hehe


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## baterija

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

As soon as he can identify an effective optic. The optic is part of what makes that beam people love. He also designed his own line of hosts around using an optic, since they have no lens.


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## tolkaze

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I can't wait, suppose it's 3 months till he gets it all perfected, another month for first production run. Add a month or two for possible delays, and we should just be getting to autumn or winter here in australia. Perfect for flashaholics. 

I do love my M60 now, and hope that the new one is as good, or better than it currently is (i know it most likely will be) I just hope that reflector + smaller appeture of the MD2 won't be a problem. Either way, I'm on board for 2 + 2 hosts (and maybe a wildcat before that gets updated too)

Good work Gene!


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## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I love Malkoffs current drop ins, cant help but drool over the new designs. I have wanted to see a reflectored M60 for a while now in something besides a p7. Will be in for at least one for sure. Dont ever plan on getting rid of my old faithful M60 modded 6p, it still rocks no matter what comes down the pike next! Time to build some new hosts.


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## Deputy T.

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I am in full support of Gene taking as much time as it takes for R & D on the XPG models of his drop-in. I for one hope that it doesn't mean the end to the XRE line up. I'd like to see those in production for years to come, or at least until another narrow beamed emitter comes around fill in the optic niche.

My concern now is with the Maglite drop ins, of which this discussion is surprisingly lacking in updated news. Has anyone heard from Gene as to when the next run of XPGs is due to come out. I missed out on the first batch and and have been checking in constantly hoping to get my hands on one. I've heard that some people may have had issues with the 2-3 cell models. Is there problems delaying additional releases. Like I said I'm all for proper development on the M60's, but I hope the Maglite drop in production doesn't get completely cast aside because of this.

Now to get back to baseless rumors and speculations where the real meat of any forum discussion is at...I'm exited to see what replaces the _P7_ Maglite drop ins. Is anyone else crossing their fingers for a SST-50, or dare I say SST-90...


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## dcycleman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I just really want one of those orange hosts that he is sold out of, I check for them like every day. that paired witht his hi low switch and 300 otf lumens would be swell


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## tolkaze

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Yeah, i was also looking for the Orange EMS MD2's, was gonna pair it with a M60LL or maybe ask for a custom M60WLL... Fill it full of trits, and make it my emergency light

Edit: Will the xp-g's come out with a LL as well? maybe more efficient, like... 9+ hours on 2 cr123's


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## Outdoors Fanatic

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I'm done with P60's! Gene should come out with a line of tower modules for SureFire Turboheads...


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## Gene43

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I can comment that there is a grain of truth to these rumors!


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## bkumanski

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Deputy T. said:


> Now to get back to baseless rumors and speculations where the real meat of any forum discussion is at...I'm exited to see what replaces the _P7_ Maglite drop ins. Is anyone else crossing their fingers for a SST-50, or dare I say SST-90...




+1! SST dropins for mags would be killer!


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## MrGman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I'm done with P60's! Gene should come out with a line of tower modules for SureFire Turboheads...


 

That would be a crime against technology. 
Kind of going backwards to put high power LEDs on a tiny little tower going up into a shallow reflector, when there are better options. Not robust and rugged at all (for the LED). Now putting one in a D36 size head with a deeper reflector and better all around heat sinking mass, that would be a serious option.


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## Policetacteam

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

This is such great news! 300 OTF lumens and a reflector will have me buying 2 more M60's for sure. My M4 uses Gene's M60's and Gene's only! I cannot wait to see the new set ups! Keep up the great work Gene! Please do not rush perfection!!!


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## nanotech17

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

i sure hope the new drop in can fit in the VME head.


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## signal 13

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Gene should come out with a line of tower modules for SureFire Turboheads...


 
I would definitely be first in line for one of these! 



Gene43 said:


> I can comment that there is a grain of truth to these rumors!


 
I just love it when Gene drops by with a short line that gets us all fired up! :twothumbs



Policetacteam said:


> This is such great news! 300 OTF lumens and a reflector will have me buying 2 more M60's for sure. My M4 uses Gene's M60's and Gene's only! I cannot wait to see the new set ups! Keep up the great work Gene! Please do not rush perfection!!!


 
I have an M60 on my SF952 on my short barrel AR...LOVE IT! Can't imagine using anything else.


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## Moka

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Gene43 said:


> I can comment that there is a grain of truth to these rumors!



Gene, never get tired of your one line comments... :twothumbs
Would obviously prefer details 

I look forward to seeing what you can do with new emitters on an M30 for single RCR purposes =D I've got a 3P clone begging for a brighter (and throwier please) dropin :thumbsup:


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## Max_Power

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Has anyone found a removeable diffuser for MD2/3/4 form factor? I'd love to have throw with the option of flood.


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## Paul_in_Maryland

*MD2/3/4 diffuser*



Max_Power said:


> Has anyone found a removeable diffuser for MD2/3/4 form factor? I'd love to have throw with the option of flood.


For anyone willing to convert their MD2/3/4 to "all flood, all the time," check out the diffuser lenses at flashlightlens.com.


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## jmcf1949

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



MrGman said:


> just leave out the " :scowl: " sign and you will not be perceived as being pi$$ed off. As to the personal dilemma, welcome to the club. I have 27 lights because I can't let go. Soon to be 29 I guess. You can run the M60 off of the 18650 battery at mildy reduced output and longer run time. For my first general purpose light or for my main EDC general carry light I would always pick the medium thrower over the pure flood. I have 3 flood lights and I use them, but in my pocket is an M60 type light that always gets used first. Hope that helps.


 

What sort of reduced output and run time can be expected from an M60 and a 18650 battery?

Thank you,

Jim - Semper Fi


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## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



jmcf1949 said:


> What sort of reduced output and run time can be expected from an M60 and a 18650 battery?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Jim - Semper Fi



Just happened to do a runtime with an 18650 in my MD2, using bounce with a light meter, and over a period of 105 minutes output dropped 13%. Starting output lux number with the 18650 was the same as using two 18500's. Pretty outstanding. 

Bill


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## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Just happened to do a runtime with an 18650 in my MD2, using bounce with a light meter, and over a period of 105 minutes output dropped 13%. Starting output lux number with the 18650 was the same as using two 18500's. Pretty outstanding.


Now this is what I've been talking about. :twothumbs Much thanks.

Edit: Jim, I have more info on what you are interested in a recent post of mine in the master M60 & M30 Runtimes thread.
Here's my post, which includes a few beamshots for illustration:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3147114&postcount=177

(BTW what you are asking about is a reasonably popular configuration for the Malkoff M60, and one that I like quite a bit. However, this has been covered in a number of other threads and I don't really want to pull this thread off-topic. I'd be happy to PM you a few links on this if you'd like.)


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## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Kestrel said:


> Now this is what I've been talking about. :twothumbs Much thanks.
> 
> Edit: Jim, I have more info on what you are interested in a recent post of mine in the master M60 & M30 Runtimes thread.
> Here's my post, which includes a few beamshots for illustration:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3147114&postcount=177
> 
> (BTW what you are asking about is a reasonably popular configuration for the Malkoff M60, and one that I like quite a bit. However, this has been covered in a number of other threads and I don't really want to pull this thread off-topic. I'd be happy to PM you a few links on this if you'd like.)



Took me a while to be a believer. I just could not imagine that the M60 would hold up that well with one 18650, compared to my M30 with the same brand 18650. Essentially they both have the same runtime with mostly full output, and the M60 can run in my Little Twisty for 15-20 minutes in regulation, using a Powerizer RCR123. Draw from battery is only 1A with one Li-Ion. The one advantage of the M30 is being able to use two Eneloop NiMh AA's for about 130 lumens or so, in regulation for 1/1/2 hours with a 6% drop in output over that time.

Bill


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## jmcf1949

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Thank you all very much for the info. I too can't believe the M60 does so well on one 18650. Gene's stuff is amazing. I'm proud every day to have a Malkoff on my belt.

Regards,

Jim - Semper Fi


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## Policetacteam

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Is it just me or do you all find your selves checking this particular post daily for any new updates!?! This is some of the most exciting Malkoff news!!! Bring it Gene!!!


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## Deputy T.

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Check it? I've made it my homepage!


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## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Gene43 said:


> I can comment that there is a grain of truth to these rumors!



Talked to Gene today. Exciting stuff coming up. More than one grain of truth to the rumors. Don't think he is ready to let it all out now, but I am really excited. Don't forget, he will be at SHOT the week of the 18th. Maybe he will give us some clues then. 

Bill


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## Policetacteam

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



> Check it? I've made it my homepage!


 
So true brother!!!


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## Policetacteam

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

So I have been doing more homework on the new XPG's. These really look to be exciting news for the LED world. Aside from the basic elements what do you all see as major benefits of the XPG over what is, and has been, previously available to us!?!


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## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Policetacteam said:


> So I have been doing more homework on the new XPG's. These really look to be exciting news for the LED world. Aside from the basic elements what do you all see as major benefits of the XPG over what is, and has been, previously available to us!?!



Out front would be longer runtime and more output, at the same current to the LED, than an Cree XR-E.

Bill


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## Bullman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I am pumped, got my upgrade back from Gene the other day and I go back to work tomorrow night, I might have to work a little traffic. I love my Maglight now.


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## jslappa

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

There will always be a market for the current M60 and M30. I have been on the lookout for a nice M60W for a buddy, and I have seen that both the M60 and M30 tend to sell for $45, with ease. Since they are $55 new, you'll only be out about $10 for the luxury of using one until the XP-G arrives. Buy whichever one you want now, then sell it in the MP for about $45. You're out just ten bucks in the end.


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## tolkaze

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

That's assuming they hold their value when a newer module comes out. Unless they have something unique (like beam shape due to optic rather than reflector) then they may drop in price, and the MP might be flooded with second hand M60's when people want to get the new one,


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## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Bring on the dirt cheap M60's in the market place. Still looking forward to new designs.


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## Policetacteam

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



> Out front would be longer runtime and more output, at the same current to the LED, than an Cree XR-E.


 
That is too cool! When we are getting LED's that are more powerful and even more energy saving then previous models that is something to be pumped about! 

My team did an entry into an apartment complex tonight after a standoff with an armed subject with felony warrants. As we flowed through this apartment complex room by room, apartment by apartment I was relieved to know that my rifle and what's on it, Gene's M60, was good to go! Having confidence in your training and your gear gives you some peace of mind!

In reference to the M60's possibly dropping in price once the XP-G's arrive...I highly doubt it! I do not see the demand for M60's and M30's dropping any. There will be the lines of people, myself included, waiting for a new XP-G but the M60 / M30's aren't going anywhere. I would highly doubt that you will see them in the CPM for any less than the $45 we are now seeing. If so I will be buying those up quickly!!!


----------



## SavageBaer

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Well, I've got to make my 1st post sometime!

I'm really excited to see what Gene comes up with for the XP-G!! I absolutely love my M60


----------



## Policetacteam

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Welcome to the addiction SavageBaer! I've found that flashlights and all of their accessories are worse than guns, knives, and cigars because generally they are more affordable!


----------



## j3bnl

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Looking forward to see what Gene eventually releases.
I would suspect that he will continue making the optic variety of drop-ins simply because of his excellent MD2 which has no lense of its own. 
Of course it is possible that Gene could source a suitable lense and supply it with the MD2.


----------



## MrGman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

There are lenses available from flashlightlens dot com that will go right in. If Gene doesn't already have a lense option to go in front of any module he makes with a reflector that will need one, I am sure he will find a suitable one. 

A module with a reflector that would need a front glass lense would be awesome to have a AR coated lense in front of it. They are already out there so this isn't really a concern.


----------



## zwerky

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



nanotech17 said:


> i sure hope the new drop in can fit in the VME head.




+1 !


----------



## MrGman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



zwerky said:


> +1 !


 

Now do you guys really think Gene is going to make a module that isn't compatible with his own host bezel/head. Especially when the VME head is designed to take P60 type drop in modules, mostly his!

That's like hoping the pope would do a "catholic" mass on Sunday morning, as if he would do anything else. :thinking:


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



MrGman said:


> Now do you guys really think Gene is going to make a module that isn't compatible with his own host bezel/head. Especially when the VME head is designed to take P60 type drop in modules, mostly his!
> 
> That's like hoping the pope would do a "catholic" mass on Sunday morning, as if he would do anything else. :thinking:



Actually, I think he might use a 26mm reflector, particularly if we expect some thrown with the XP-G. Who knows, maybe a new MD head with larger window opening, and look at all those SF, and SF clone bezels out there. Now, don't beat me up. :devil:

Bill


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I want a XP-G in a M60LL.


----------



## Chrontius

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I want _three_ XP-Gs in an M60H. :nana:


----------



## Bright_Light

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Woods Walker said:


> I want a XP-G in a M60LL.


 
Yeah, same here.... I want a decently bright light with a SUPER long runtime. We just have to be patient.


----------



## Deputy T.

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Has anyone heard and seen anything from the SHOT show to provide and insight?


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Just happened to do a runtime with an 18650 in my MD2, using bounce with a light meter, and over a period of 105 minutes output dropped 13%. Starting output lux number with the 18650 was the same as using two 18500's. Pretty outstanding.
> 
> Bill



With M60:
IME, 2x18500 config was brighter than 1x18650. 

However, I get better runtimes with the latter than with the former. I use unprotected Panasonic 2900 mAh cells in 1x18650. Of course you can visually tell when it drops below 3.7V (Unlike with 2x18650 cells)


----------



## flatline

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



etc said:


> With M60:
> IME, 2x18500 config was brighter than 1x18650.



With fresh cells, both will start out regulated, so shouldn't the output be roughly the same?

I'm clearly missing something here.

--flatline


----------



## Alberta-Blue

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Deputy T. said:


> Has anyone heard and seen anything from the SHOT show to provide and insight?


 
anyone?

Hey Gene... No that shot is over is there any chance of getting more details on your new XP-G M60/M30 series??


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



flatline said:


> With fresh cells, both will start out regulated, so shouldn't the output be roughly the same?
> 
> I'm clearly missing something here.
> 
> --flatline



And it was very similar but M60 on 2x18500 was clearly brighter by a small margin than on 1x18650, I would say the difference was about 180-200 lumens vs standard 235 lumens. There is something about 2-cell configuration that makes it run in this "Turbo"-like mode that you cannot get on 1 cell.

As I said, the cool thing about 18650 cell is that you can use unprotected high-capacity cells at almost 3000 mAh, not AW cells that are still stuck at 2600 mAh. 
Secondly, at lower voltage and lower lumens you get better runtime and non-using protected cells, you get a long tail between 3.7V, which it gets out of regulation and 3.5V, when it's discharged. The practical thing about it, it won't suddenly cut off on you like AW cells, this can be *vital* in mission-critical environments where I would never use protected cells to begin with (and may not Li-IOn at all) 
The third cool thing about it, it's very compact versus 9P form factor.
Lastly, 18500 are still kind of low capacity, they are just very slightly smaller than 18650 but the capacity is still only 1500 mAh, whereas 18650 is pushing 3,000 mAh. So you get longer (regulated) runtime with 1x18650 versus 2x18500, albeit slightly fewer lumens.

I would post a pic of the two side by side but I just traded my M60 module for M60L and no longer have it. But it makes sense, think about it - of course it should run brighter on 8.4V versus 4.2V, even in regulation.


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



etc said:


> And it was very similar but M60 on 2x18500 was clearly brighter by a small margin than on 1x18650, I would say the difference was about 180-200 lumens vs standard 235 lumens.
> [...]
> I would post a pic of the two side by side but I just traded my M60 module for M60L and no longer have it. But it makes sense, think about it - of course it should run brighter on 8.4V versus 4.2V, even in regulation.



FWIW the lightmeter data that I have seen on this (1 large LiIon vs 2 LiIon and the M60):

Bullzeyebill: zero difference
DHart: ~10% difference (M60 was ~10% brighter on 2x LiIon vs 1x18650 IIRC)
I have my M60 beamshot photos of both configurations posted here. I find it extremely difficult to discern any visible difference in output for my M60 between these two configurations. Maybe it depends on the Vf of the individual LED in each M60 module? :shrug:

If others are interested the main thread for this aspect is the Malkoff M60 & M30 Runtimes thread IMO, there is a lot of info there.


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Did anybody see a Malkoff booth at the Shot Show? Maybe he would have shown some proto-types there and give us a peek at some new goodies.


----------



## MrGman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

M60__from Regulated power supply,
Volts___amps___watts______,
3.0_____0.09____0.27__,
3.2_____0.22____0.70__,
3.5_____0.38____1.33__,
3.6_____0.51____1.84__,
3.8_____0.66____2.51__,
4.0_____0.86____3.44__,
4.2_____1.08____4.54__,
4.5_____0.85____3.83__,
4.7_____0.88____4.14__,
5.0_____0.80____4.00__,
5.5_____0.74____4.07__,
6.0_____0.69____4.14__,
7.0_____0.60____4.20__,
7.9_____0.56____4.42__,
8.0_____0.53____4.24__,
8.4_____0.50____4.20__,
8.5_____0.49____4.17__,
9.0_____0.47____4.23__,

This is my data on power consumption of an M60 using a DC power supply. At 3.8V its down to 2.5 watts and at 6V its steady over 4 watts. I have measured the lumens output but never published it and the M60 is definitely dimmer off of a 3.8V lithium ion battery. It won't hold the 4.2V under load so its not going to be as bright as with a pair of CR123 or higher voltages. An M60 is about 50 lumens lower in output but will run longer off of an 18650 battery.


----------



## jp2515

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Deputy T. said:


> Has anyone heard and seen anything from the SHOT show to provide and insight?





Alberta-Blue said:


> anyone?
> 
> Hey Gene... No that shot is over is there any chance of getting more details on your new XP-G M60/M30 series??





kyhunter1 said:


> Did anybody see a Malkoff booth at the Shot Show? Maybe he would have shown some proto-types there and give us a peek at some new goodies.



CALM DOWN GUYS!! 

I did speak to Gene at the 4Sevens & MattK parties and heres the short/long of it:

He's still working on the XP-G and he will have a testing prototype out soon. I can say that Gene did show us his working sample that he had. One word: BRIGHT! except it has a more intense flood when compared side by side to a M60. For you reflector fans out there, yes it will be all reflctor, no optics. 

That's all I can say based on my short time looking at the light. Hoping Gene will pop in here and post more info. THANKS Gene!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Did the reflectored design still have his standard M60 solid Brass heatsink with the reflector built into it instead of the optic?



jp2515 said:


> CALM DOWN GUYS!!
> 
> I did speak to Gene at the 4Sevens & MattK parties and heres the short/long of it:
> 
> He's still working on the XP-G and he will have a testing prototype out soon. I can say that Gene did show us his working sample that he had. One word: BRIGHT! except it has a more intense flood when compared side by side to a M60. For you reflector fans out there, yes it will be all reflctor, no optics.
> 
> That's all I can say based on my short time looking at the light. Hoping Gene will pop in here and post more info. THANKS Gene!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



kyhunter1 said:


> Did the reflectored design still have his standard M60 solid Brass heatsink with the reflector built into it instead of the optic?



Yes. Gene is still working on the module design, so nothing is final yet. The reflector is unique and Gene may want to talk about that later. Re an earlier question, Gene did not have a booth at SHOT.

Bill


----------



## Vesper

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



MrGman said:


> M60__from Regulated power supply,
> Volts___amps___watts______,
> 3.0_____0.09____0.27__,
> 3.2_____0.22____0.70__,
> 3.5_____0.38____1.33__,
> 3.6_____0.51____1.84__,
> 3.8_____0.66____2.51__,
> 4.0_____0.86____3.44__,
> 4.2_____1.08____4.54__,
> 4.5_____0.85____3.83__,
> 4.7_____0.88____4.14__,
> 5.0_____0.80____4.00__,
> 5.5_____0.74____4.07__,
> 6.0_____0.69____4.14__,
> 7.0_____0.60____4.20__,
> 7.9_____0.56____4.42__,
> 8.0_____0.53____4.24__,
> 8.4_____0.50____4.20__,
> 8.5_____0.49____4.17__,
> 9.0_____0.47____4.23__,
> 
> This is my data on power consumption of an M60 using a DC power supply. At 3.8V its down to 2.5 watts and at 6V its steady over 4 watts. I have measured the lumens output but never published it and the M60 is definitely dimmer off of a 3.8V lithium ion battery. It won't hold the 4.2V under load so its not going to be as bright as with a pair of CR123 or higher voltages. An M60 is about 50 lumens lower in output but will run longer off of an 18650 battery.



Thanks for posting this. I was recently searching for this kind of data on the M60. Running it on a 1x18650 is enjoy the fact it falls out of regulation and dims over time. Gives a nice heads-up on the state of the battery.


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Thanks. 



Bullzeyebill said:


> Yes. Gene is still working on the module design, so nothing is final yet. The reflector is unique and Gene may want to talk about that later. Re an earlier question, Gene did not have a booth at SHOT.
> 
> Bill


----------



## MrGman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Vesper said:


> Thanks for posting this. I was recently searching for this kind of data on the M60. Running it on a 1x18650 is enjoy the fact it falls out of regulation and dims over time. Gives a nice heads-up on the state of the battery.


 
your welcome. This data is not new. Its posted on page one of my Actual lumens thread that is stickied up top, along with lots of other data. Whenever I have technical data I usually update it to posts 1, 2 or 3 of that thread.


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Thanks for the data.

That confirms what I suspected visually - M60 on 1x18650 = 180 lumens, M60 on 2x18500 = 230 lumens. But on 3x123 primaries looks like it's even brighter.


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I really like the beam of Gene's optic M60 and M30. I have one of each in warm. While I know people will like the XP-G reflector versions, I got rid of all my reflectored drop-ins after I got my M60. I will stay with the M60W and M30W I have now until Gene comes out with an XP-G W optic drop-in. If not, and my current drop-ins are evenually rendered truly obsolete (to me) by having more efficient options that do what I need better (which right now will be KX TIR optic lights: smaller, upgradeable, and have the beam I want) then I will eventually sell my C-series hosts. 

But I know there ARE optics that work well with the XP-G and more will come out in the next year, so after I have a couple of my E-series upgraded to XP-G warm, then I expect to see a nice thrower Malkoff XP-G optic.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Blindasabat said:


> I really like the beam of Gene's optic M60 and M30. I have one of each in warm. While I know people will like the XP-G reflector versions, I got rid of all my reflectored drop-ins after I got my M60. I will stay with the M60W and M30W I have now until Gene comes out with an XP-G W optic drop-in. If not, and my current drop-ins are evenually rendered truly obsolete (to me) by having more efficient options that do what I need better (which right now will be KX TIR optic lights: smaller, upgradeable, and have the beam I want) then I will eventually sell my C-series hosts.
> 
> But I know there ARE optics that work well with the XP-G and more will come out in the next year, so after I have a couple of my E-series upgraded to XP-G warm, then I expect to see a nice thrower Malkoff XP-G optic.



You might like this reflector that Gene is coming out with for the XP-G. Top quality, and from a top quality designer, from what I hear. It astounded me when I saw it.

Bill


----------



## gsxrac

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Trying to help my uncle build a weaponlight for his Benelli I was going to tell him to go ahead and pick up an M60 but maybe he should wait a month or two  Not to mention I am in need of two M60's myself cant wait for an XP-G!!!


----------



## v188

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Bullzeyebill said:


> You might like this reflector that Gene is coming out with for the XP-G. Top quality, and from a top quality designer, from what I hear. It astounded me when I saw it.
> 
> Bill



Outstanding! I'm just waiting for the announcement. It will be a top quality deisgn and no doubt it's from a top quality designer. 

Dumb question, but I assume it'll work with a SF 9P along w/6P?

(Work gives me 123 for free, so i don't worry about them)


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Malkoff site is out of M30s and M60s. Its been that way for quite some time now. I am thinking it is that way and is gonna stay that way because of the "new" dropins they are working on? It makes sense to stop making the current version if a new one is coming. But if they are just in the prototype phase why stop producing the current models? It could be a bit of time until the new ones are perfected. i would get an M60 in the meantime if they were available, I know they are that good . I always miss them when they hit the Marketplace , they go fast and they hold their price also. If I ma gonna pay within a few dollars of full retail i would rather get it direct from Malkoff and get the service along with it. So does anyone know if the M60/M30 witrh optics will be restocked soon on the Malkoff site or is that it?


----------



## jorn

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

M30F,M30WF,M60F,M60L,M60LF,M60LL,M60WF,M60WLF is still in stock. 

Just got a M60WLF and i prefer it over my M30W in my little twisty. Long runtime and just as bright as my M30W (with a sanded mag-lite lens for flood). I guess the homemade diffusor "eats" a lot of lumen


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I know Gene will make a killer new drop-in with the XP-G. I just prefer the entire beam of the current versions with the tapering spill that no reflector can duplicate. All reflectors cut off the spill with a sharp edge that is un-natural & distracting to me when hiking and especially when mountain biking. I have used my M60W in a Vital Gear F2 host thumbsup strapped directly to my helmet and it works great because of the combination of a good spot that covers just the trail ahead of me (what I need to see most when traveling at speed on singletrack) combined with quickly tapering off spill to reduce the over-illumination of close-up foliage along the side of the trail and especially overhead that are not only distracting, but due to their proximity to my head and the helmet mounted light, appear very bright and hurt my night vision. I prefer them to appear in the spill more gradually as they do with my M60W, which works very well. 
So as good as I know the new reflectored version will be for general use, I vote for, and will likely wait for an optic version with quickly tapered off spill (and a warm emitter) for my uses. 
I don't claim to speak for everyone, just placing my vote for what works for me. 


Bullzeyebill said:


> You might like this reflector that Gene is coming out with for the XP-G. Top quality, and from a top quality designer, from what I hear. It astounded me when I saw it.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I like the idea of a reflectored XP-G R5, but then his MD2 and VME heads will require a lens.

Will he drive them at the normal 1A or can we expect 1.2A~1.4A:twothumbs


----------



## funkymonkey1111

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

to those in the know-does the update mean there won't be any regular old p60s made anymore?


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Blindasabat said:


> I know Gene will make a killer new drop-in with the XP-G. I just prefer the entire beam of the current versions with the tapering spill that no reflector can duplicate. All reflectors cut off the spill with a sharp edge that is un-natural & distracting to me [...] So as good as I know the new reflectored version will be for general use, I vote for, and will likely wait for an optic version with quickly tapered off spill (and a warm emitter) for my uses.


My opinion as well. I've been using Malkoffs for a while now but not long ago tried out one of the generic "R2"s for a few weeks. I found it distracting and found myself missing that smooth transition between hotspot and spill that the M60 optic generates.


----------



## jorn

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Wont the small opening in the md2 /valiant head block off some light when using a drop in with a reflector? Or is the unique reflector made for working flawlessly with the small opening? 

I would guess the reflector has to be lesser in diameter than a normal p60 to let all the lumen out trough the small opening in the head.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



bigchelis said:


> I like the idea of a reflectored XP-G R5, but then his MD2 and VME heads will require a lens.
> 
> Will he drive them at the normal 1A or can we expect 1.2A~1.4A:twothumbs



I asked Gene that question about higher current to LED, and he seems to be thinking about it, but I would not want to second quess him right now. Heat sinking is really important here, and he will want a reliable XP-G module. The MD2 reflector works with his new reflector, but he is still working on it.

Bill


----------



## mwaldron

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Bullzeyebill said:


> You might like this reflector that Gene is coming out with for the XP-G. Top quality, and from a top quality designer, from what I hear. It astounded me when I saw it.
> 
> Bill



I'm giving Gene the benefit of the doubt, but I really really like that 8 degree optic...


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

AAAGH!! This is making me want an M60 even more but I dont think I would be happy with a flood version. :sigh:


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Reflector vs optic - I totally don't see what's wrong with the current M60** configuration, why fix what's not broken? 
The transition from spot to flood is indeed good, I never thought of it this way.
I will probably keep my M60** modules.


----------



## Axion

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

When there is an M60W XPG I will be in line to buy one. That said I've really grown fond of the beam pattern of my M30W and my M60LW and I hope there is eventually an XPG module offered with an optic. I just think that these optics give the most real world useful beam pattern.


----------



## starburst

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I have three Q5's behind optics, but still use my m60 Q2/reflector!!
If Gene hits the beam and tint of the older Q2 reflector design you will 
love it. With a R5/reflector I can see a lot of Q5/optics on break.

I been waitin for this baby!! :twothumbs


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Can you post pics?


quote:
m60 Q2/reflector


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I know that there is only so much room inside the M60 heatsink for a reflector, but I hope that Gene does not make the diameter of the reflector so small because of the MD2 and VME heads that it will punish most Surefire host users. What would be the point of a reflectored M60 with a tiny reflector inside a SF 6P? Maybe Gene should consider two versions of the new drop ins, one maximized for his own hosts, and the other finely tuned for SF P60 style hosts.


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

oh. I didnt realize that Malkoff dropins have a smaller "face" than regular P60 dropins? I dont think I have ever seen an M60 or such in a SF head?


----------



## flatline

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Where would I look to see beamshots of the M60 and M60F?

My search-fu is weak this morning...

--flatline


----------



## brunt_sp

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

From an email from Gene : Expect to see some M61 XP-G prototypes begin to trickle out in 2-3 weeks. :twothumbs


----------



## dcycleman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

sweet, hope he restocks the 2 stage switches for the ems light soon, really wanting one of those.


----------



## sfca

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



brunt_sp said:


> From an email from Gene : Expect to see some M61 XP-G prototypes begin to trickle out in 2-3 weeks. :twothumbs



What do you mean by prototypes? As in working but not 100% final product.


----------



## dirtech

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Glad I picked up the last M60W in stock, but looking forward to the new ones as well.


----------



## brunt_sp

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Here's the full email for those who didn't receive it :

Hello All,
As most of you may know or suspect, Malkoff Devices is updating the current M60 models to the Cree XP-G LED. In anticipation of this we are liquidating some overstock items. We currently have the M60LL and M60LF on sale for $39.00 USD. When the current stock is gone, it is gone.
Expect to see some M61 XP-G prototypes begin to trickle out in 2-3 weeks. I don't have any specs for these yet. Expect them to be brighter and more efficient than the current M60's. Have a Great Day!
Thanks, Gene
www.malkoffdevices.com


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

It is sort of fun watching this develop. 

Bill


----------



## FrankW438

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



brunt_sp said:


> Here's the full email for those who didn't receive it :
> 
> Hello All,
> As most of you may know or suspect, Malkoff Devices is updating the current M60 models to the Cree XP-G LED. In anticipation of this we are liquidating some overstock items. We currently have the M60LL and M60LF on sale for $39.00 USD. When the current stock is gone, it is gone.
> Expect to see some M61 XP-G prototypes begin to trickle out in 2-3 weeks. I don't have any specs for these yet. Expect them to be brighter and more efficient than the current M60's. Have a Great Day!
> Thanks, Gene
> www.malkoffdevices.com



Awww, MAN! I _just_ bought two drop-ins this month (M60W, M30W)! Now I have to scrape together some more cash to buy something new and brighter?

Gene, you're an evil, evil man! 

But in a good way.:thumbsup:

-- Frank


----------



## v188

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Oh well, I just can't wait. New cool toys from Gene.


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I can handle an XP-G R5 M61, but man I don't know what I will do when he releases the XP-G Wildcat:mecry:

This will be my downfall for sure, now just hoping my wallet can handle it.


----------



## rdrkt

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Will any of these new lights be brighter than my current M60 MC-E?


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



rdrkt said:


> Will any of these new lights be brighter than my current M60 MC-E?


 
Not brighter, but more efficient.

If I recall the M61 prototype is said to turn-on at 300ish OTF, but knowing Gene he will likely advertise the warmed up reading a couple mintues later. He does this for his MD4 wildcat and I rather have the warm OTF numbers:thumbsup:


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I like that he's calling them the M61. :thumbsup: So appropriate.


----------



## KDOG3

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Did he mention whether or not he would have multi-mode versions that would work in SF lights?


----------



## jorn

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



dcycleman said:


> sweet, hope he restocks the 2 stage switches for the ems light soon, really wanting one of those.


Ordered a hi/lo ring + a nice edc clip from jsburlysflashlights today


----------



## Chris H

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Apologies for my lack of knowledge here, but will a M60L work in the little twisty with primaries and if so roughly what brightness and runtime could I expect? I ask as the M60L currently in my 6P host will need another home when Gene releases these! Thanks


----------



## Max_Power

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The M60 works fine on 3V, although noticeably dimmer than at 3.8V. As Gene Malkoff's website says, the M60 drops out of regulation at 3.8V, so it gets dimmer on lower voltages.

Indeed, I would prefer to run the M60 or M60L in the Valiant instead of an M30. I ran an M30 in my Valiant for a while and found it got too hot to hold after a minute or two.


----------



## Policetacteam

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



> It is sort of fun watching this develop.
> 
> Bill


 
Its fun and very interesting! It is the evolution of a growing small business!!! Gene has found a demanding market for his products and when you couple that with amazing customer service, the best built (American made) products, and the ability to listen to what your customers are asking for and give it to them you have a business that will be around for a long time!


----------



## Vesper

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I'm really looking forward to the initial comparison beamshots, as well as what kind of head will be available to accommodate the reflector rather than the optic. It can't be the same head as is currently available, can it?


----------



## jp2515

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Vesper said:


> I'm really looking forward to the initial comparison beamshots, as well as what kind of head will be available to accommodate the reflector rather than the optic. It can't be the same head as is currently available, can it?



The M60 and the M61 look totally different (based on Gene's M61 sample)


----------



## ionizedsky

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



jp2515 said:


> The M60 and the M61 look totally different (based on Gene's M61 sample)



Umm.. So do you have a photo of this??


----------



## jorn

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Max_Power said:


> The M60 works fine on 3V, although noticeably dimmer than at 3.8V. As Gene Malkoff's website says, the M60 drops out of regulation at 3.8V, so it gets dimmer on lower voltages.
> 
> Indeed, I would prefer to run the M60 or M60L in the Valiant instead of an M30. I ran an M30 in my Valiant for a while and found it got too hot to hold after a minute or two.


 
I also prefer the m60 (wlf) over my m30w in a valiant. only because of runtimes. I don't think the m30+valiant is to hot to handle. it gets hot , but nowhere near uncomfortable hot.


----------



## jp2515

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



ionizedsky said:


> Umm.. So do you have a photo of this??



Nope but probably someone else does


----------



## Paulinski

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Awesome. I'm looking forward to M61


----------



## potatoheadUK

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I'm really looking forward to the M61's too.

Just got the email from Malkoff that they are now starting to liquidate old stock to make room and the M61 XP-G prototypes should begin to trickle out in 2-3 weeks. :twothumbs

Still no specs tho


----------



## Max_Power

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



jorn said:


> I also prefer the m60 (wlf) over my m30w in a valiant. only because of runtimes. I don't think the m30+valiant is to hot to handle. it gets hot , but nowhere near uncomfortable hot.



I am running my Valiant with an RCR123 so the M30 was at full power 

It still gets toasty with a primary cell but it's more manageable.


----------



## jorn

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Max_Power said:


> I am running my Valiant with an RCR123 so the M30 was at full power
> 
> It still gets toasty with a primary cell but it's more manageable.


Cant save the world with primary's, rcr is my only choice. In fact I have bought a single 123 primary only once, and i still haven't used it.


----------



## flatline

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



jorn said:


> Cant save the world with primary's, rcr is my only choice. In fact I have bought a single 123 primary only once, and i still haven't used it.



I keep 123 primaries in the streamlight mounted on my Glock. That's the only light I have that absolutely must work after it's sat unused on the shelf for 12 months.

For all other lights it's rechargeable cells.

--flatline


----------



## Max_Power

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Yeah, on weapon lights the gradual decline in brightness is greatly preferable to the sudden unexpected darkness as the rechargeable cell's protection circuit shuts down the power.


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

............


----------



## Max_Power

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I just posted this in the photo section, but it seems fairly on-topic here too. 

I got a new light box and my first subjects were my EDC lights: 
a warm white wildcat head on a black MD3 body, and 
a warm white flood M60WF on an MD2 body in natural Aluminum. 






http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4321763766/

I've got an MD4 body with no emitter, and an MD2 with only a Surefire 80-lumen P6LED module.
Both are crying out for a nice warm-white XPG module.
How about a triple or quad emitter wildcat for the MD4?

The high/low ring might need a larger resistance value to properly dim the XPG. On the MD4 the low beam is still pretty darn bright, for example.

We certainly live in interesting times!


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Max_Power said:


> I just posted this in the photo section, but it seems fairly on-topic here too.
> 
> I got a new light box and my first subjects were my EDC lights:
> a warm white wildcat head on a black MD3 body, and
> a warm white flood M60WF on an MD2 body in natural Aluminum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4321763766/
> 
> I've got an MD4 body with no emitter, and an MD2 with only a Surefire 80-lumen P6LED module.
> Both are crying out for a nice warm-white XPG module.
> How about a triple or quad emitter wildcat for the MD4?
> 
> The high/low ring might need a larger resistance value to properly dim the XPG. On the MD4 the low beam is still pretty darn bright, for example.
> 
> We certainly live in interesting times!



Gene brought his prototype MD4 Wildcat with three XP-G's to the 4-7's, and MattK parties. Bright sucker and he is still working on it. Not sure if he is considering warm white XP-G's

Bill


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Bullzeyebill said:


> Gene brought his prototype MD4 Wildcat with three XP-G's to the 4-7's, and MattK parties. Bright sucker and he is still working on it. Not sure if he is considering warm white XP-G's
> 
> Bill


 

I guess thats what happens when 600 OTF lumens is not enough in a small 6P type light. 


There are warm XP-G variants now????


----------



## Max_Power

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I'm waiting for the neutral/warm XPGs to become available before I buy any more emitters. After using the Malkoff M30W, M60W, M60W MC-E, and the Wildcat in warm white, I just can't see throwing away money on lights that don't have anything in the yellow-brown-red spectrum. The small perceived difference in raw power is completely worth the huge improvement in color fidelity.

I recently got a Nailbender SST50 M3 head for use on a shotgun. Even though it is not warm white, it tends toward the warm side of cool white, and has enough yellow in it to make wood look pretty recognizable. 

I'm almost ready to try a high-CRI LED light, but they are all so darned expensive, if you can find one at all.


----------



## v188

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Question for those more knowledgeable: Will the new Malkoff M61 (XP-G) put our more light than his MD3/4 Wildcat with ~ 550 lumens? 

Or should one expect more light with his new XP-G versus a lesser Malkoff type, such as more lumens than from Mc-E?


----------



## tolkaze

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

XP-G M61 will probably have an output somewhere between the current M60 and the M60 MC-E 

M60 ~220ish
M61 Probably turn on around 300ish and maybe drop a bit
M60 MC-E turn on above 400 and maybe drop a bit

Edit: or... alternatively, the M61 may put out less light for longer... being a more efficient emitter. So could be between 200 and 250 but for longer than the current M60's on high


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Alright Gene, it's time for the prototypes to start trickling out.


----------



## Gene43

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



kyhunter1 said:


> Alright Gene, it's time for the prototypes to start trickling out.


 
I will be putting up some new specs and pictures on the M60 page of the website in the next few days.


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Gene43 said:


> I will be putting up some new specs and pictures on the M60 page of the website in the next few days.


let me be the first to say...
*WOOT!!!*


----------



## tolkaze

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

This may have been asked, but is there going to be an upgrade to the M30 range? or will the M61 be efficient enough to cover both bases? Just thinking about 1xCR123 lights (my new favourites) and in particular a twisty paired with either M61, or whatever replaces the M30


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

You told me just what I wanted to hear! :twothumbs



Gene43 said:


> I will be putting up some new specs and pictures on the M60 page of the website in the next few days.


----------



## KDOG3

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Hey Gene! Can you say if there will be a multi-mode version? Like low med hi or vice versa? I think it may be a good idea since with these emitters putting out screamin' lumens its good to have a "midrange" output level. Just wonderin'!

I'm just ITCHIN' to see what you come up with! I'm thinking a C2HA or C3HA would be perfect for this thing!

( I also like your quote at the bottom of your home page! )


----------



## v188

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I can't wait!!!! The three levels is a great idea, also.


----------



## Search

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Malkoff M61!!!!!


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Search said:


> Malkoff M61!!!!!



He must be working on that web page as we speak because the description tells about the standard XR-E LED. Not ready yet.

Bill


----------



## Search

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Bullzeyebill said:


> He must be working on that web page as we speak because the description tells about the standard XR-E LED. Not ready yet.
> 
> Bill



I noticed that. "The LED is a Cree XRE" .. Wait what lol


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I had a sneaking feeling he would inset the reflector into the heatsink on the new reflectored design. This would give the M61 the room to install a ucl lens for use in his MD2 hosts without adding the extra thickness for a lens.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



kyhunter1 said:


> I had a sneaking feeling he would inset the reflector into the heatsink on the new reflectored design. This would give the M61 the room to install a ucl lens for use in his MD2 hosts without adding the extra thickness for a lens.


 


True,

And the reflector looks more narrow than a standard P60 reflector too. I bet this is to allow the MD2 bezels to be used without blocking the light.:twothumbs


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

That is a bet you would win. I would prefer a full diameter reflector inside the heatsink for my SF hosts. It appears he has optimized these for the MD2 hosts. Beamshots please Gene..........



bigchelis said:


> True,
> 
> And the reflector looks more narrow than a standard P60 reflector too. I bet this is to allow the MD2 bezels to be used without blocking the light.:twothumbs


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



kyhunter1 said:


> I would prefer a full diameter reflector inside the heatsink for my SF hosts.


I would have preferred it that way as well, for the same reason. :sigh:


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Maybe he will offer more than one style? How about one for his own hosts with a lens already built in, and another optimized for SF style p60 hosts?


----------



## hk dave

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Malkoff website was just updated with the M61.


----------



## Deputy T.

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Were there any for sale. It almost seems he's in the middle of updating the site, since the description is that of the M60.


----------



## BigMHoff

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

M61 Mod to fit Surefire
This is the Malkoff Devices P60 style dropin with solid brass heatsink construction. This design utilizes a Cree 8 degree optic. The optic has a very nice balance between throw and spill. It is an outstanding room lighter and short to medium spotter. It was designed specifically for use in SureFire 6P, 6Z, C2, M2 and G2 flashlights. It may or may not fit other models. The input voltage is 3.8 - 9 volts. Below 3.8 volts it will drop out of regulation and run direct drive. The output is 235+ lumens. The current draw is only 750ma at 6 volts. The runtime is 1 1/2+ hours on 2 CR123 primary batteries. It will easily illuminate objects at 350+ feet and will blind opponents within a 100 foot radius. The LED is a Cree XRE 7090.

A fitting ring is required if used with a shock-absorbing head (ie M2).

NEED REAL SPECS!!! ARGGHHHH!!!!


----------



## jimmy1970

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Sure looks pretty!!:laughing:

I want one!! When do the warm ones hatch???

James....


----------



## slappomatt

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

yeah bummer about the reflector. I was finally sold on getting one of the M30's for my C2 to have a quality light engine in it. the reflector is small as it is. smaller isnt a good thing. and I was hoping for an optic to try those out. now we have a XP-G with a reflector like every other drop in on the market. other than the nice brass housing there really isn't much differentiating this from a sea of LED drop-in's for half the price.


----------



## v188

Kestrel said:


> I would have preferred it that way as well, for the same reason. :sigh:


 
I sure hope that pictures isn't the final/only product. I want to use his M61 with a SF 6P or maybe buy a 9P. I don't want to have a smaller head with less light. 

Gene, don't let us down, make a 61 version like the 60, more power, longer operation,.... you know, a Malkoff!!!!!!


----------



## v188

duplicate


----------



## r_x

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Looks like the new specs are up;

The output is approximately 280 lumens. The current draw is only 650ma at 6 volts. The full output runtime is approximately 2 hours on two CR123 primary batteries with a nice long taper as voltage drops. It will easily illuminate objects at 350+ feet and will blind opponents within a 100 foot radius. The LED is a Cree XP-G.


----------



## 3000k

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

will this throw better than the old tir optic?


----------



## r_x

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



3000k said:


> will this throw better than the old tir optic?



It states the same 350+ feet as the original M60, so it looks like it might throw the same but possibly it will have a larger hotspot because of the emitter?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Funny as hell how people are griping about a drop in they havent even seen/felt/used yet! 

This is why most makers keep things quiet until release. 

The man, Don McLeish, designed the reflector, I promise most users will be happy. :devil:

I for one am quite excited.


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Will most likely buy one, but I admit that I am kinda dissapointed with the smallish reflector. For those that seen the proto at SHOT, what was the beam like? Maybe the beam quality will surprise us even with the reflector issue.


----------



## Search

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I'm assuming the throw of the M60 with a bigger hot spot, more spill, and no rings.

I, for one, cannot wait.


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Assuming the throw is at-least equal to the former M60, and a big smooth hotspot with no rings or artifacts in the beam, I would be very happy with that. :twothumbs



Search said:


> I'm assuming the throw of the M60 with a bigger hot spot, more spill, and no rings.
> 
> I, for one, cannot wait.


----------



## Search

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I say that because my NB R4 throws pretty well, the same as my E2DL actually. It just has a much bigger hot spot and a lot of spill.

The reflector of the M61 is a little different, but we'll have to see. I'm just hoping.



kyhunter1 said:


> Assuming the throw is at-least equal to the former M60, and a big smooth hotspot with no rings or artifacts in the beam, I would be very happy with that. :twothumbs


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Me too. From the specs I just got thru looking at on the website, it looks like Gene has geared this drop in more towards a longer runtime than achieving max brightness. I like the fact of getting two hours of regulated runtime on primaries, this is a big plus. With it not being driven real hard, overall emmitter life longevity should be good with this drop in too. 



Search said:


> I say that because my NB R4 throws pretty well, the same as my E2DL actually. It just has a much bigger hot spot and a lot of spill.
> 
> The reflector of the M61 is a little different, but we'll have to see. I'm just hoping.


----------



## Search

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I can't wait to see how it acts with an 18650. 



kyhunter1 said:


> Me too. From the specs I just got thru looking at on the website, it looks like Gene has geared this drop in more towards a longer runtime than achieving max brightness. I like the fact of getting two hours of regulated runtime on primaries, this is a big plus. With it not being driven real hard, overall emmitter life longevity should be good with this drop in too.


----------



## ginaz

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

"The man, Don McLeish, designed the reflector"

i saw how small it was but then i figured if anyone can get a good beam out of that...


----------



## KDOG3

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The size of the actual reflector portion reminds me of the McR-20. That baby had plenty of throw while still providing good spill. I'm hoping for a more throw oriented module. This thing in a bored C3-HA with 2x18500s' would ROCK. Heck, with the runtime stated a C2-HA would be cool. But I'm hoping for a multi-mode version.


----------



## kramer5150

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Do you all think the new reflector will allow light to emit past the M2 bezel? The depth of the M2 bezel blocks a lot of light from the current crop of modules.


----------



## 270winchester

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I wonder if Gene is gonna ensure the bezel and the body gap no longer has a gap.

DOn't get me wrong I have quite a few Malkoff dropins, but I was hoping that the gap issue would be addressed since he is changing the generation of the lights.


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The Malkoff gap is there for a reason. I have personally never seen anymore than a 1/16" gap out of several dropin/host combos. The gap ensures that the drop in is securely seated and has the best electrical/thermal conduction. I had a off brand 6p clone one time where they had milled too far into the body, and a Malkoff would not get the proper fit. In other words, it would not work. I had to build up the extra space so the M60 would fit properly. If Gene does away with the "gap", alot of people will start having problems, since Malkoff dropins do not use the larger outer spring. 



270winchester said:


> I wonder if Gene is gonna ensure the bezel and the body gap no longer has a gap.
> 
> DOn't get me wrong I have quite a few Malkoff dropins, but I was hoping that the gap issue would be addressed since he is changing the generation of the lights.


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

So Close I can Taste It!!

I am definitley getting one but I have to ask,

I have a P60 with XPG running at 1.2a. The Malkoff will only be pulling 650ma? With such an awesome heatsink as this why not push it a bit harder? I am not saying overdrive it but couldnt it run well at 750 or 850? More output still no heat problems? The 2 hr runtime at full is great and the voltage range is fantastic for me also . Just wondering why Gene goes so conservative in the current draw with such a great heatsink host? 

This should be 280 OTF though right?


----------



## seale_navy

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

yeah i just saw it on the website..it styling looks like pelican M6 HA III...

hehe hopefully there is M61L or something soon... and reviews by cpfer...


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

If Gene says 280, it will be atleast that and maybe more. The voltage range and runtime is very nice from what I can tell. With the input voltage at 3.4v, and the obvious lower vf of the xpg led's, this should regulate nicely on a single 18650. I was a little surprised too by it not being driven harder. 300 OTF would have been nice....



Liteskr42 said:


> So Close I can Taste It!!
> 
> I am definitley getting one but I have to ask,
> 
> I have a P60 with XPG running at 1.2a. The Malkoff will only be pulling 650ma? With such an awesome heatsink as this why not push it a bit harder? I am not saying overdrive it but couldnt it run well at 750 or 850? More output still no heat problems? The 2 hr runtime at full is great and the voltage range is fantastic for me also . Just wondering why Gene goes so conservative in the current draw with such a great heatsink host?
> 
> This should be 280 OTF though right?


----------



## Paulinski

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I can't wait.

I have a bored Surefire 12P with two 18650 waiting for it


----------



## Yoda4561

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I can't wait for the neutral emitter XPG's to come out. With the low minimum regulated voltage it will go great with single LiIon celled lights.


----------



## Owen

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

For the people equating current draw with current to the emitter:
If you figure in an estimated 3.3V forward voltage for the LED at drive level, the voltage drop of the batteries under load to ~5.5V total, and a converter efficiency of 85%, 650mA from 2x123 should still result in ~900mA to the emitter.
edit: based on the numbers we're being given for the M61, it looks like roughly a 20% increase in brightness, with a 15% increase in runtime over the current M60.
Guess we'll know what the beam looks like when we see some beamshots. 


I'll probably hold out for a M61WL...probably:laughing:


----------



## flatline

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



kyhunter1 said:


> If Gene says 280, it will be atleast that and maybe more. The voltage range and runtime is very nice from what I can tell. With the input voltage at 3.4v, and the obvious lower vf of the xpg led's, this should regulate nicely on a single 18650. I was a little surprised too by it not being driven harder. 300 OTF would have been nice....


 
Do you honestly think you'd notice the difference between 280 and 300 OFG lumens? 

Thanks to the way our eyes work, a 7% increase of intensity will only look maybe 4% brighter which is probably well below our threshold of detection.

Anyone now what the threshold of detection is for the human eye to notice one light being brighter than another? 20%? 30%?

--flatline


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Dont get me wrong, I know from reading dozens of threads on CPF that the human eye needs a big jump in output to be detectable and though I always love more output like all of us I understand the relationships and balance of output/runtime/efficiency and such. I was just curious as to why the seemingly very conservative approach by Gene though I understand the desire for nice long flat steady runtimes and I myself am drawn to that also. I myself have moved beyound all the barn burners that run for 30 mins and drop like a stone and/or overheat in the process. My interests now tend to be drawn to a quality product deisgned and made in the USA with some real thought and skill involved in its creation.
Also there is some ignorance on my part with this stuff. I just cant seem to lock down the formulas and equations on this stuff like Owen did . I appreciate that breakdown and 800-900ma to the emitter is great , I just cant do the math to get to hese numbers. I just see 650ma and compare it to another number of 1.2a, complete ignorance on my part

So how long will I have to stare at the Malkoff site and the 0 Units In Stock for??? heheh:candle:


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I had a chance to mess around with the new XP-G drop-in at SHOT and I think Gene has a real winner here. The hotspot is a little wider than on the standard M60 and the beam is a good deal smoother. I have a good feeling that it will satisfy both white-wall hunters and users alike. No doubt this is due to Don McLeish being a genius at making reflectors! Have faith in Gene and Don, because the new XP-G module will be incredible!


----------



## knightrider

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> I had a chance to mess around with the new XP-G drop-in at SHOT and I think Gene has a real winner here. The hotspot is a little wider than on the standard M60 and the beam is a good deal smoother. I have a good feeling that it will satisfy both white-wall hunters and users alike. No doubt this is due to Don McLeish being a genius at making reflectors! Have faith in Gene and Don, because the new XP-G module will be incredible!



This is good to hear. I sent back my M60 standard right when I first got it. The beam was terrible, rings like crazy and badly centered led. I was very disappointed with it at the time as I had so much anticipation built up from the forum. Exchanged it for the M60F and really like that one, it's great indoors, mega flood.

Glad he is going with a reflector! Optics are ok, but I'm way more interested in reflectors.

This is great news to me. I'll probably give the M61 a try.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

As I posted earlier, I saw two of Gene's prototypes, one in an MD2, and one in a Surefire C2. They were both bright, I did not compare it to an M60, but there seemed to be more spill, and a huge center spot. Hard to describe and I am no doubt missing something. I think that the reflector is managing the beam shape well, and Gene noted that Don (McGizmo) had designed the reflector especially for him Maybe a little more spill when used in the C2. Gene said he was still working on it. He had to do some work on the M60 circuit to have it properly work with the lower vf XP-G. He said the porotootypes were running it at 1 amp to the LED, and that final product would not be below 1 amp to LED.

Bill


----------



## rumack

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I was hoping for a bigger jump in output, too. Not that I consider the M60 any slouch in output, but the way my eyes are calibrated I need a good jump in output to register as a significant difference. At least we can be assured that if Gene says 280 lumens, it will be at least 280.

Someone earlier in the thread questioned if there will be a multiple mode M61. I doubt it, unless Gene has solved that issue. I asked him over a year ago about multi mode dropins and he said he had no such plans because the multi mode drivers were not reliable enough for him. I was disappointed, but I appreciate that Gene wants each thing he makes to be as solid as a rock and everything I have seen from him has been just that.

And now that I have been bitten by the neutral/warm tint bug, I am very anxious to see the warm M61's announced. :devil:


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

This is the kind of input we have been waiting on. :twothumbs 



carrot said:


> I had a chance to mess around with the new XP-G drop-in at SHOT and I think Gene has a real winner here. The hotspot is a little wider than on the standard M60 and the beam is a good deal smoother. I have a good feeling that it will satisfy both white-wall hunters and users alike. No doubt this is due to Don McLeish being a genius at making reflectors! Have faith in Gene and Don, because the new XP-G module will be incredible!


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*





Bullzeyebill said:


> As I posted earlier, I saw two of Gene's prototypes, one in an MD2, and one in a Surefire C2. They were both bright, I did not compare it to an M60, but there seemed to be more spill, and a huge center spot. Hard to describe and I am no doubt missing something. I think that the reflector is managing the beam shape well, and Gene noted that Don (McGizmo) had designed the reflector especially for him Maybe a little more spill when used in the C2. Gene said he was still working on it. He had to do some work on the M60 circuit to have it properly work with the lower vf XP-G. He said the porotootypes were running it at 1 amp to the LED, and that final product would not be below 1 amp to LED.
> 
> Bill


----------



## mwaldron

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Well the good news is I'll be able to wait until the reviews and beamshots start coming in before I get tempted to place an order since the M61 isn't what I'm after. 

Now since the M61's out of the bag, let's talk about the M61W.....


----------



## KDOG3

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Argh. So its MORE floody than the M60? Dang. I was hoping for a throwmonster...


----------



## Policetacteam

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I just got my first look at the M61! Wow!!! I cannot wait to see how this drop-in performs. I'm kind of surprised about the amount of disappointment from alot of members! We haven't even seen the beam shots yet guys...let's try and not get our panties in a bunch just yet! Have some faith in Gene. I'm sure if we were happy with the original M60 this will be a major improvement on an already legendary drop-in!


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Policetacteam said:


> I cannot wait to see how this drop-in performs. I'm kind of surprised about the amount of disappointment from alot of members! We haven't even seen the beam shots yet guys...let's try and not get our panties in a bunch just yet!


+1 here. It's easy to second guess (I'm guilty on this too), but it seems like GMalkoff has put a lot of effort into getting his right. The market for the M60 was people who really *use* their units, and I expect that the M61 will be a user as well. I admit it looks a little unconventional, but I have high hopes - the contributors to this one are tops from what I gather. :huh:


----------



## Rothrandir

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> I had a chance to mess around with the new XP-G drop-in at SHOT and I think Gene has a real winner here. The hotspot is a little wider than on the standard M60 and the beam is a good deal smoother. I have a good feeling that it will satisfy both white-wall hunters and users alike. No doubt this is due to Don McLeish being a genius at making reflectors! Have faith in Gene and Don, because the new XP-G module will be incredible!



Poor Gene, Carrot was harassing him the entire week trying to get Gene to sell him the M61 prototype.


As far as my take on the M61? More output, more runtime, and a better beam pattern.
I don't see how anyone could possibly complain...


----------



## TriChrome

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The input voltage seems to have changed to 3.4v minimum (used to be 3.6 or 3.7 I thought). Does this mean I can use it in a C2 host with a single 18650 and get very good runtime numbers out of it without any loss of lumens (versus a 2x RCR/CR123 setup)?


----------



## smokelaw1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Rothrandir said:


> As far as my take on the M61? More output, more runtime, and a better beam pattern.
> I don't see how anyone could possibly complain...


+1

My ONLY complaint withthe more recent M60's I own (I have a number, going back to some of the very first hand builts) is that it was TOO much focused on throw to be an all around user. It is fantastic for what I use it for (an outdoor, throwier mid brightness light). The M61 looks like it will fit the bill as a perfect all arounder in a 2X123 host. I look forward to it.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



TriChrome said:


> The input voltage seems to have changed to 3.4v minimum (used to be 3.6 or 3.7 I thought). Does this mean I can use it in a C2 host with a single 18650 and get very good runtime numbers out of it without any loss of lumens (versus a 2x RCR/CR123 setup)?



The M60 voltage range is 3.8-9volts. Sounds like the M61 would work pretty well with one 18650.

Bill


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Rothrandir said:


> Poor Gene, Carrot was harassing him the entire week trying to get Gene to sell him the M61 prototype.



:lolsign: that's true...


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

You obviuosly didnt offer him a large enough sum Carrot!!! Everything is for sale for the right price:naughty:


----------



## Ggmesquita

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The M61 is GREAT news!
I`ve emailed Gene a couple of months ago asking about a xp-g dropin. They said they were working on it...
Now, with such a low minimum input voltage, do you guys think there would be room for a M31 at this point?
I wish there were 2 versions of it. A SUPER thrower and a SUPER flood.
Let`s wait and see 
Gg


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Probably not. I am aware of the way the human eye percieves increase in brightness. The way your eyes percieve light, is that it takes a 4x increase in actual brightness to appear 2x as bright too your eyes when you compare one light to another. Draw two squares side beside, one 2"x2", and one 4"x4". Most people will say that the last is twice the area of the first because of their eyes perception. The area of the first is 4 square inches, the second is 16 square inches. Doubling the sides gives a 4x times increase in area. Your eyes percieves brightness of light the same way. In other words, you have to really increase brightness before it is noticeable to our eyes. You are exactly right in that 20 extra lumens is probably not noticeable, but it would have been nice. With the hope of an excellent runtime of 2 hrs. @ 280 lumens, and a really nice beam as others have stated, I will have *NO* complaint at all. The M61 is different, but Im sure it will be a keeper when Gene get's done working his magic. I plan on buying atleast 1 for sure when they come available. 



flatline said:


> Do you honestly think you'd notice the difference between 280 and 300 OFG lumens?
> 
> Thanks to the way our eyes work, a 7% increase of intensity will only look maybe 4% brighter which is probably well below our threshold of detection.
> 
> Anyone now what the threshold of detection is for the human eye to notice one light being brighter than another? 20%? 30%?
> 
> --flatline


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

It does sound like the M61 will work with RCRs so that an M31 may not be needed.
Maybe that will open up the possibility of a SureFire specific (or other normal 26mm diameter P60 host) non-MD2 version with full 26mm width optics (either an optic or reflector) to take advantage of the larger area (and more specifically, Depth) to make a throwier version. Maybe an M26 or M61T.

Given the 30% (ish) efficiency increase in XP-G over XR-E, 280L OTF makes sense. He also stated he will drive it about the same at 1A. It's an R4 or R5, not an S2 or S3.

note: I think THROWIER is a CPF invented word.


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I don't think a larger reflector version is necessary. The current M61 is quite excellent already.


----------



## signal 13

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I can't wait to get my hands on a few of these bad boys! Just when I thought the M60 was the final answer, out comes the M61. Higher output & longer runtime! Waiting impatiently


----------



## dirtech

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Can't tell. Does it have a built in lens?


----------



## Alberta-Blue

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I am SO im for one!!!


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

EDIT: No assuming your talking about the M61 drop in and not the photo in your post. The M61 has a built in recession for the user to put a lens in for use in MD2 or VME hosts. 



dirtech said:


> Can't tell. Does it have a built in lens?


----------



## defloyd77

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

A few questions for you guys, first is the reflector specially made for the M61 or is it one that is in one of Don's other lights? I've been watching the Haiku XP-G thread, man that beam is amazing! Second, being driven at a lower current, having less power wasted as heat and having an aluminum reflector to add to the drop in's head extracting ability, would these be capable of being run in a Surefire G2 without the aluminum head?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



defloyd77 said:


> A few questions for you guys, first is the reflector specially made for the M61 or is it one that is in one of Don's other lights? I've been watching the Haiku XP-G thread, man that beam is amazing! Second, being driven at a lower current, having less power wasted as heat and having an aluminum reflector to add to the drop in's head extracting ability, would these be capable of being run in a Surefire G2 without the aluminum head?



The M61 is not being driven at "lower current". It is being driven at about 1000mA's to the LED, the same as the M60. It could be driven lower in an M61, or M61LL format if they were made available.

Bill


----------



## defloyd77

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Bullzeyebill said:


> The M61 is not being driven at "lower current". It is being driven at about 1000mA's to the LED, the same as the M60. It could be driven lower in an M61, or M61LL format if they were made available.
> 
> Bill



"The current draw is only 650ma at 6 volts. The full output runtime is approximately 2 hours on two CR123 primary batteries with a nice long taper as voltage drops."


----------



## 270winchester

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



defloyd77 said:


> "The current draw is only 650ma at 6 volts. The full output runtime is approximately 2 hours on two CR123 primary batteries with a nice long taper as voltage drops."


I thought current draw on the batteries is not the same as the driving current to the LED. :think:


----------



## defloyd77

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



270winchester said:


> I thought current draw on the batteries is not the same as the driving current to the LED. :think:



It's not, I'm not sure if the 650 is to the LED or not (pretty sure it is), but the current to the LED will always be less than draw on the batteries.


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

You guys have to cut this crap out!!! You is confusing me again!!!:duh2: 

Can a knowledgable flashlight geek please spell it out for us ?


----------



## Gene43

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

At 6v input: The current draw from the batteries is approx 650ma. The current to the LED is approx 1000ma. 

It is a Don McLeish custom made reflector specifically for the M61.

Thanks, Gene


----------



## brunt_sp

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

:bow:


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Thank you Gene!!!!!!!!!




Soooooo, waddya think March or so for these badboys?:huh: :naughty:


----------



## fespo276

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Any ballpark as to when these will go on sale? I am doing alot of sitting around lately monitoring this thread and refreshing the Malkoff site!!!! 

Edit: Sorry, I think Liteskr42 and I posted at the same time.....


----------



## flatline

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



defloyd77 said:


> but the current to the LED will always be less than draw on the batteries.



Your statement is true if you're strictly speaking of boost circuits.

For buck circuits, unless the circuit is horribly inefficient, you should expect the current at the power source to be less than the current at the LED.

Try to think of things in terms of power rather than current. The driver and LED consume power from the batteries. Since power is the product of current and voltage, if voltage increases, current decreases to achieve the same power.


--flatline


----------



## defloyd77

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



flatline said:


> Your statement is true if you're strictly speaking of boost circuits.
> 
> For buck circuits, unless the circuit is horribly inefficient, you should expect the current at the power source to be less than the current at the LED.
> 
> Try to think of things in terms of power rather than current. The driver and LED consume power from the batteries. Since power is the product of current and voltage, if voltage increases, current decreases to achieve the same power.
> 
> 
> --flatline



Hmm, I did not know this, thanks!


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

It's on the web site right now, but appears to be sold out (of course)

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m61-mod-to-fit-surefire-p-7.html?zenid=kdt2q9ukv123e7smb8619li3l2


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



etc said:


> It's on the web site right now, but appears to be sold out (of course)
> 
> http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m61-mod-to-fit-surefire-p-7.html?zenid=kdt2q9ukv123e7smb8619li3l2



Thank God, I would hate to think that Gene's stuff does not sell. Also gives us a chance to get feedback from the buyers of the M61.

Bill


----------



## Search

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

It was sold out when he first put it up. It's just there for a heads up.

Gene probably doesn't care to write a code or some website crap for "Not ready for sale, how do ya like me now".


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I heard the turn-on lumens are 300 plus OTF at 1A to the LED, but of course Gene advertises the conservative 260 OTF numbers


I wonder if he will do some custom variants with 1.4A to the LED????


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Betcha the marketplace is gonna be flooded w M60's. 

Anyone know what size window would fit perfect in there?

Be sweet if Gene sold sapphire windows for M61's. 

Hint hint.


----------



## jimmy1970

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



PoliceScannerMan said:


> Betcha the marketplace is gonna be flooded w M60's.
> 
> Anyone know what size window would fit perfect in there?
> 
> Be sweet if Gene sold sapphire windows for M61's.
> 
> Hint hint.


I think Gene will have to at least provide an AR coated glass lens to satisfy an MD2/3/4 owner/buyer.

James....


----------



## mwaldron

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



PoliceScannerMan said:


> Betcha the marketplace is gonna be flooded w M60's.



I hope so, I'd like another cheap M60W!


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I dont think you will see many M60s comeup for sale. People are hanging on to them for their unique qualities. Its still a great p60 dropin. I keep missing them when they do pop up they go fast. :shakehead


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Would probably have to be on starvation before I would consider giving up mine. :mecry:BTW, mine is a hand picked model!



Liteskr42 said:


> I dont think you will see many M60s comeup for sale. People are hanging on to them for their unique qualities. Its still a great p60 dropin. I keep missing them when they do pop up they go fast. :shakehead


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



kyhunter1 said:


> Would probably have to be on starvation before I would consider giving up mine. :mecry:BTW, mine is a hand picked model!


 

Oh yeah, well my M30 pulls 1.5A at the tail with a single AW 17670. Off course it does go down to 1.2~1.3A after a while, but I am rewarded with more lumens than the average drop-in. It gets warm too.

Now; how about them M31 drop-ins:candle:


----------



## v188

I wonder how most people use their M60 Malkoff, and of course the new M61 when available? Do you suppose most are used with a Surefire P6? My guess is, that'd be the most popular usage.

I've been pondering getting a Surefire P9 just for the new M61. I'm guessing it'll become my new duty light. I'm not a flashaholic, but I'm thinking the run time with 3 cr123 should be really nice with the new M61?


----------



## Swedpat

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Deleted, wrong thread.


----------



## mwaldron

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



v188 said:


> I wonder how most people use their M60 Malkoff, and of course the new M61 when available? Do you suppose most are used with a Surefire P6? My guess is, that'd be the most popular usage.



I use my M60W in a SF 6PD with a Z49.

I would like to get a SF D3 (preferable) or 9P for increased runtime but I'm also really looking at the Lumens Factory Seraph SP-6 and SP-9. I really like the Seraph styling but I've read a few reviews in the past that imply they're pretty low quality. They're cheap enough that I'll probably get one myself to find out once I pick my next drop-in. 

I'd really love to find a 2-mode host for the M60W but I just don't like the MD2...


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Everything is for sale Kyhunter1!!!:devil: It's just a matter of finding the right price 

Think about it Hmmmm.....?


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Would take *alot* more than I paid for it as one of it's caliber would be very hard to replace, even then the :sick2: feeling would be hard to live with. 



Liteskr42 said:


> Everything is for sale Kyhunter1!!!:devil: It's just a matter of finding the right price
> 
> Think about it Hmmmm.....?


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



bigchelis said:


> Now; how about them M31 drop-ins:candle:


I've been thinking about this, it seems to me that the M30 was created to run at maximum on a 3.7v LiIon (~240 lms on 3.7v, ~160 lms on 1xCR123/~2.5v), while the M60 was created to run at nominal with 2x CR123's (~5v) and up. The M60 is generally borderline on a single (large) 3.7v LiIon, running _near nominal_ to _somewhat below nominal_ output at the beginning of the discharge. My guess is that the M61 should now run very well on a 3.7v LiIon (G. Malkoff has stated via e-mail correspondence late last year that we should expect the M60 replacement to be an even better match to a single LiIon than the M60 was due to the slightly lower Vf of the XP-G). This pretty much takes it to M30 territory IMO, somewhat replacing the requirement for an M31.

So here is my wish:

I think there is a need for an *M21* instead of an M31. Now that we should be getting excellent M61 performance on 3.7Vin, I think that perhaps there could be more of a need for excellent *2.5v* performance - 1x CR123 or 2xAA. This would be a perfect complement to the M61 IMO.

Anyway, just the combination of idle speculation by me as well as wishful thinking. FWIW... :tinfoil:

:candle::candle: M21 :candle::candle:


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The M21 idea is a good one, especially for his twisty keychain style lights. I really dont like carrying rechargeables in my edc pocket light, so that would fit the bill perfectly. That would elimenate alot of cpf market for the new AA SF Outdoorsman too. 



Kestrel said:


> I've been thinking about this, it seems to me that the M30 was created to run at maximum on a 3.7v LiIon (~240 lms on 3.7v, ~160 lms on 1xCR123/~2.5v), while the M60 was created to run at nominal with 2x CR123's (~5v) and up. The M60 is generally borderline on a single (large) 3.7v LiIon, running _near nominal_ to _somewhat below nominal_ output at the beginning of the discharge. My guess is that the M61 should now run very well on a 3.7v LiIon (G. Malkoff has stated via e-mail correspondence late last year that we should expect the M60 replacement to be an even better match to a single LiIon than the M60 was due to the slightly lower Vf of the XP-G). This pretty much takes it to M30 territory IMO, somewhat replacing the requirement for an M31.
> 
> So here is my wish:
> 
> I think there is a need for an *M21* instead of an M31. Now that we should be getting excellent M61 performance on 3.7Vin, I think that perhaps there could be more of a need for excellent *2.5v* performance - 1x CR123 or 2xAA. This would be a perfect complement to the M61 IMO.
> 
> Anyway, just the combination of idle speculation by me as well as wishful thinking. FWIW... :tinfoil:
> 
> :candle::candle: M21 :candle::candle:


----------



## dragon434

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

omgg when is this gonna come out, im going to trinidad on the 24th for some hunting... im gonna be so mad if i dont get this intime!!!!!!

im trying to buy a m60 just incase it dosent... i took a the m60 MC-E there last time but not enough throw

pleaseeeeee:mecry:


----------



## tundratrader

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I am sure these will rock. I am a user. Not a white wall hunter. I want a bright and bulletproof light. That is what Gene has designed again. He has even given us more runtime on primaries. I run my M60's with 18650's and they work forever. I took one in on my fire helmet a few weeks ago with primaries. The G2L-FYL melted some and it was probably stupid to even try it but the malkoff is still perfect. I completely sunk my MD2 awhile back and didnt realize I had left out the gasket. I shook the water out of the m60 and dried it and fired it right back up. You will be hard pressed to find a higher quality product or a better person to deal with. 

It really pisses me off that people are ripping on these and dissapointed before anyone has even tried one. 

Zach


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



tundratrader said:


> It really pisses me off that people are ripping on these and dissapointed before anyone has even tried one.



Yes, have some faith in Gene and Don! I have seen the product with my own eyes and I say it is phenomenal... an all-round improvement! :twothumbs


----------



## Vesper

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Looking forward to the M61W. I'm sure it's going to be fantastic as usual. I love the looks of the little thing too - it's going to look pretty damn cool in my MD3.


----------



## potatoheadUK

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I'm really looking forward to seeing these surface, and some side-by-side comparisons.

The sheer quality of my M60's would lead me to beleive that a collaboration with Don can only improve things further still.

.... now if Don could weave his magic and coax a M60/M61 Style beam pattern out of the MC-E with Gene's uber quality..... Hmmmm...... is it impossible??


----------



## Raymond3

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Gene and his wife are just the best folks you could ever hope to deal with. And his products are of the very highest quality. I have used M60s in about 6 various forms and they have always performed when they were years old exactly as they did when brand new. I think so highly of them that when I set up a back-up duty-carry for my LEO brother, the M60, (in a Surefire naturally) with it's rock solid reliability was my first and only choice. My wife's favorite flashlight is a simple G2 (light, easy to use etc) with a M60WLF. My only heartbreak with a Malkoff ever was when, during a silly lapse of consciousness, I put my bright and beautiful custom M60 MCE Direct Drive (he won't make any more so don't ask) into a higher voltage configuration than it's 18650 home, and  then :mecry:.

As for confidence, I now have a 6p, Z3 and C2 all empty of their previous drop-ins waiting for three new ones from Gene Malkoff. What else can I say?


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



tundratrader said:


> It really pisses me off that people are ripping on these and dissapointed before anyone has even tried one.
> 
> Zach


And any dissenters with their own opinions will be shot? A new and/or different design or configuration may not be for everyone's specific needs. If they say so, deal with it. They (most that I've read) are opinions based on known facts. E.X. a reflector is going to be a reflector.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Blindasabat said:


> And any dissenters with their own opinions will be shot? A new and/or different design or configuration may not be for everyone's specific needs. If they say so, deal with it. They (most that I've read) are opinions based on known facts. E.X. a reflector is going to be a reflector.



I will reserve my opinions and considerations until I either have a new Malkoff XP-G, or read some reviews. Must say, I have seen the prototype, and it looked ok to me in a restaurant enviornment, which clearly is not the best place to evaluate a light. When I see figures for lux, and center beam diameter, for example, plus other tersted info, then I will have some information to make some conclusions. Until then I am shooting in the dark, and will not make snap judgments.

Bill


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Dissenters should indeed be shot. There's nothing to evaluate, besides how the drop-in looks, which is the shallowest and worst evaluation anyone can do. Appearances can be deceiving and in fact constantly are. How something looks does not necessarily dictate how it works.


----------



## jp2515

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

As I mentioned in another thread, the M61 should be out soon (enough) and then everyone can buy one and make their own informed review instead of guessing on a item that hasn't been released yet.


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The only things people have been 'judging' (the ones I've seen or paid any attention to at least) are the known facts. It has a reflector. We know that for a fact. What I and at least one other poster like about the M60 is the tapering off spill with out a sharp cut-off that both of us (one apparently a firefighter...) said was distracting in our use of lights. It is by no means a criticism of the new design for those that like and want a reflector. But for those of us that see it as a characteristic we don't like, we have voiced or opinions (not trashing or trying to suppress other's opinions BTW) and like I said earlier, VOTED for a future optic version. I ignore (as anyone should) comments on outright performance, lumens, lux, what the he** ever else is not known yet, as I know (and I have also said before) it will be a very nice drop-in for those that want what it is, but until I see a feature that fixes the one thing I don't like about it, then I will continue to use the two Malkoffs I have now. 

I support Gene since his are the only drop-ins I trust and I love the beam from the optics he uses. But if all we ever did was bow to Gene and tell him that everything he made was perfect in every way for every use for every user, he wouldn't know how to improve them or release different versions for other people's uses.

Is this not a forum where we discuss what we know, ask questions about what we don't, and sometimes even speculate about everything?

It pisses me off that somebody would get pissed off about others discussing cold hard facts and having opinions about those facts. Make sure you first understand and are clear about what you are getting pissed off about. And don't claim that people are trashing something that they are just discussing known characteristics of. I don't recall reading anyone 'trashing' the pending product, just discussing it.


----------



## Alberta-Blue

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Like I said earlier, I am going to give Gene the benefit of any doubt thats exists with the M61.

His stuff has always been good enuff for me to trust with my life and his M61 will be next in my duty light as soon as I can get my hands on it.

And if we are going strictly off looks.... I thinks it looks petty sweet :thumbsup:.


----------



## Dead_Nuts

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Silly discussing characteristics of a product not yet in production.

I'm reasonably certain that Gene knows what characteristics made his previous products desirable. I doubt he's willing to compromise at this point.

I'll just wait and see.


----------



## Blindasabat

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

1. That's half of what we do here on CPF and have been doing for this entire 250+ post thread. 

2. What is silly about discussing KNOWN characteristics? UNknown, I can understand, but KNOWN ones? 

I really believe people are not actually reading or bothering to understand others' posts. "Don't let the facts get in the way of your own opinion?"


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Thank you blindasabat for making it clear to others that everyone has the right to there own opinion about the M61. I liked the old style, very anxious to try out the new style M61 and will most likely love it too. I have asked Gene multiple times in the past about reflectored M60's and he could not do one at that time. Maybe he has multiple style M61's up his sleeve?


----------



## Dead_Nuts

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Blindasabat said:


> 1. That's half of what we do here on CPF and have been doing for this entire 250+ post thread.
> 
> 2. What is silly about discussing KNOWN characteristics? UNknown, I can understand, but KNOWN ones?
> 
> I really believe people are not actually reading or bothering to understand others' posts. "Don't let the facts get in the way of your own opinion?"


1. I disagree. We don't know the "characteristics" of unreleased items. What we might know are "specifications", etc. Kind of like knowing the horsepower rating of next years car, but then having a discussion about how poorly it handles. Can't be done with any degree of accuracy.

2. I really have no idea what you are talking about as far as known and unknown. If you mean the unknown characteristics of beam intensity, pattern and shape - then yes - that is what I was reffering to. Those characteristics cannot be known until the final product is out. 

As far as my opinion, well it is what it is. I don't apologize for it and I don't try to stop others from expressing theirs. My comments were not targeted at you personally and I'm sorry if you thought so. But I've been around here long enough for folks to know that I don't EVER engage in personal attacks or attempts to squelch others' speech.

If there are 'facts' of yours that I should have considered prior to me posting my opinion; I assure you I already did. They just didn't change my mind.


----------



## Outlander

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I've been a longtime lurker here. I bought a M60 drop-in after a lot of research on this forum and I've been very happy with it. Well, after a few months, it quit working. I sent Cathy an e-mail and she said she was sorry about the trouble I was having and told me to send it in and she would give me a replacement. 

After record speed, I received my new drop-in today with a note. The note said that they were really sorry about the trouble I had and that they were upgrading their m60's to m61 and that she sent me that one. 

WOW!! It's customer service like this that will keep me coming back for more. Not to mention, a terrific product.


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Jesus!!!! Do you people really have this much time on your hands to bicker about this stuff? why does every thread on here degenerate into mindless bickering and who gets the last word? This is supposed to be FUN and ENTERTAINING isnt it?????? (someone said that to me once so I am just sending it back out there:naughty

Seriously you all are giving me a freakin' headache. I get home from a work day from hell and I hope there is exciting news about these damn dropins and instead I have to sift thru this crap:thumbsdow 
Ugh, I think I will go watch T.V.


----------



## Ggmesquita

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Liteskr42 said:


> Jesus!!!! Do you people really have this much time on your hands to bicker about this stuff? why does every thread on here degenerate into mindless bickering and who gets the last word? This is supposed to be FUN and ENTERTAINING isnt it?????? (someone said that to me once so I am just sending it back out there:naughty
> 
> Seriously you all are giving me a freakin' headache. I get home from a work day from hell and I hope there is exciting news about these damn dropins and instead I have to sift thru this crap:thumbsdow
> Ugh, I think I will go watch T.V.


----------



## DM51

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Liteskr42 said:


> Do you people really have this much time on your hands to bicker about this stuff?


Good question. Would those involved kindly stop it.


----------



## Bimmerboy

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Outlander said:


> After record speed, I received my new drop-in today


BEAMSHOTS!!!... please, of course.


----------



## bigchelis

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Outlander said:


> I've been a longtime lurker here. I bought a M60 drop-in after a lot of research on this forum and I've been very happy with it. Well, after a few months, it quit working. I sent Cathy an e-mail and she said she was sorry about the trouble I was having and told me to send it in and she would give me a replacement.
> 
> After record speed, I received my new drop-in today with a note. The note said that they were really sorry about the trouble I had and that they were upgrading their m60's to m61 and that she sent me that one.
> 
> WOW!! It's customer service like this that will keep me coming back for more. Not to mention, a terrific product.


 

Well since you have had both.. What do you think about the differences in beams? Does the new one seem noticeably brighter?

Cool pictures too.:thumbsup:


----------



## yuk

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Bimmerboy said:


> BEAMSHOTS!!!... please, of course.


+100 Please? :naughty:


----------



## ginaz

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Blindasabat said:


> ...It pisses me off that somebody would get pissed off...



indeed

let's wait for the beam shots shall we? the reflector was designed specifically for this dropin by the best in the biz. just because you haven't liked a reflector yet doesn't mean you never will


----------



## da.gee

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Uh oh, a bunch of my M60s just broke. :devil:


----------



## tolkaze

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Ha, I was the opposite, I was a fan of reflectors, until I got the M60, then I was a fan of both. 

I really like the xp-g as an emitter so far, and have only seen a few examples of reflectors for them. Until I hold one of the M61's I won't know for sure if I will love it, but so far, it looks great, will go perfectly with another MD2, and I know the quality is awesome, so will buy one regardless and find out for myself what the beam looks like

Edit: *



An M61 Lens, or suitable equivalent, is required for use in the Malkoff MD2 and Elzetta flashlights.

Click to expand...


*As for the lens, maybe it has been asked already, but what materials are being used? what size is it if we were to seek an alternative (i.e. UCL / Coated or other) and will they be sold seperately or bundled with the dropin?*
*


----------



## DaveTheDude

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Personal thanks to Mr. Gman for the concise but lucid update on Gene's work in progress. (No pun intended.)

Now that we all know it's going to be a few months before Gene releases his next whiz-bang drop-in module, be grateful that you now have time to budget for what is likely to be one of 2010's must-have purchases.


----------



## signal 13

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Outlander said:


>


 
OMG! This makes me wish I was having a Malkoff malfunction right about now :mecry:


----------



## scot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Just received my M61 this afternoon. Nice!! I've got 5 variations of the M60 plus his XP-G for a 2-3 D cell. I like the new M61!!!!....definitely has a bigger hot spot and more spill. Will have to wait till after dark to really compare to my other dropins though.
For me it's definitely a keeper!!!


----------



## dirtech

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



scot said:


> Just received my M61 this afternoon. Nice!! I've got 5 variations of the M60 plus his XP-G for a 2-3 D cell. I like the new M61!!!!....definitely has a bigger hot spot and more spill. Will have to wait till after dark to really compare to my other dropins though.
> For me it's definitely a keeper!!!



OMG! HOW did you do it! Are you family or something? Beamshots to dispell the arguers please.


----------



## v188

Mines in the mail today!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Outlander said:


>


Now that, sir, is a great first post. :welcome:


----------



## bc5000

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

So these are out of stock but yet they are shipping.

Or did I miss a pre-order.


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Yeah what's the Dillyo? Is this some sort of sick joke?

I aint laffin' Bro':scowl:

Now if they is replacing defective units with M61s that would lead me to believe malkoff is not still tweaking things . I seriously doubt Malkoff would send a possibly problematic prototype to a customer to replace a defective unit. Unless it was expressedly stated that it was a prototype to the customer. 

So whats the deal? Is this a dissemination of prototypes to certain individuals with upper level status at Malkoff? as was hinted at by Gene hisself?


----------



## Gene43

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I have let a few go early. I will have a good group of them to put on the website in the next couple days.


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

HeHE. I didnt mean my post to come across as a negative though reading it now it seems that way to me. Though I am secretly excited to get a response I do apologize .Thank you for the info Gene 

Time to brew some coffee and send someone to buy some No-Doze pills.


----------



## scot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The M61 in my 6P with Surefire primaries sure looks brighter than my M60 in the MD3 with fresh 18500's. Bigger hot spot, more spill....very smooth with absolutely no rings. 
Checking both lights on a citrus tree, the M61 seems to give me more realistic colors... greens and orange look more green and orange and not washed out. That and the increased lumens/runtime are definitely worth it for me!!!
I may just have to get a 2nd one for my MD2


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I just got home after hanging out with a fellow flashaholic and showing off my M60 and look what I find waiting for me on my doorstep!






Thanks so much Gene and Cathy for getting one of these to me so early... I am going to go out and test it now...

First impressions, it has an enormous, extremely bright hotspot, which, dare I say, far superior to the laser focus of the M60 for most uses. It definitely has lost some throw in the transition to reflector but I think the majority of people will be happier, as the wider hotspot makes the light more useful when not trying to light up skyscrapers. Those who want the best throw possible will continue to cherish their M60's (and I'll continue to use the crap out of mine) but all in all the M61 is incredible. Both have a place in any flashaholic's lineup but I think the M61 will be a real crowd pleaser! The beam is smooth and gorgeous and strongly reminiscent of the L2 and L4, a great big wall of light with a real kick to it. It appears to be a good deal brighter than the M60 as well. IMHO the XP-G is one of the best things to happen in LED technology in a long time and Malkoff's M61 XP-G just reinforces my opinion.

I also accidentally just looked into the M61 and there's a great big blob obstructing my vision...

I'm going to have to buy one to put in every one of my C-series Surefires now...


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Hi guys, I'm back. In my testing tonight the M60 gave a bit of tunnel vision compared to the M61 for walking around in the dark, but the M61 was perfect and there was light EVERYWHERE. I also tested the M60 vs. the M61 against trees, etc, that were several hundred feet away and I could make out details as well with the M61 as the M60, although the M60 clearly does throw more light forward. In fact, I preferred the M61 over the M60 due to the wider beam, which allowed me to get a better sense of my surroundings and my target's surroundings. Now, in using both together I was able to see plenty more details, so perhaps we need a two headed host that runs the M60 and M61... Also, without either I would have been unable to see a feral cat sneaking up on me in an alleyway from several hundred feet away. After he realized I had superior firepower he backed down, slinking off in the other direction, allowing me to safely avert confrontation and undeniable danger.

Maybe it is time to retire the light collection, because the M61 is all I need!


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

WARNING: the Malkoff M61 drop-in may cause uncontrollable smiles and gleeful cackles.


----------



## Alberta-Blue

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Hehehehe... I am so anxious about the release of the M61 I am about ready to poop myself!!!


----------



## johnny0000

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Holy smokes....I just got the willies reading your review. Can't wait until my friendly forest trails feel the wrath of the M61.


----------



## defloyd77

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> Also, without either I would have been unable to see a feral cat sneaking up on me in an alleyway from several hundred feet away. After he realized I had superior firepower he backed down, slinking off in the other direction, allowing me to safely avert confrontation and undeniable danger.



Glad to see you are okay! Did you life flash before your eyes or your light flash before it's eyes?


----------



## signal 13

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Alberta-Blue said:


> Hehehehe... I am so anxious about the release of the M61 I am about ready to poop myself!!!



And I thought I was the only one!


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Some of the pics in the other posts are not showing up to me. I see Carrots photo of him holding his light, but the others are a no go. Am I the only one? You all have really got my paypal trigger finger itching now. Hopefully we will soon have some nice beamshots!


----------



## brunt_sp

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

So does it come with an installed lens for use in the MD2/3/VMS or is it removable? Carrot's photo is the only one that's showing for me also.


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Mine did not come with a glass window, but I understand that it will be offered with a separate lens optionally to be used with the VME and MD hosts. It has an indentation for a glass window to be inserted.


----------



## wingnutLP

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I know that this is early to ask but any news on roughly how long it might be before a neutral variant is released Gene?

I am not sure wether to wait or not!!

Thanks


----------



## Croyde

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Gene advised me that a warm white variant is a possibility as and when Cree make them available.

Personally, I am holding out for the updated Wildcat :twothumbs


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Beamshots?


----------



## Yoda4561

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> The beam is smooth and gorgeous and strongly reminiscent of the L2 and L4, a great big wall of light with a real kick to it. It appears to be a good deal brighter than the M60 as well. IMHO the XP-G is one of the best things to happen in LED technology in a long time and Malkoff's M61 XP-G just reinforces my opinion.



Do you have an M60F to compare the beam to?? Interested in how the new reflector pattern fits between the old M60 and M60F optics. With the increased output and wider beam profile maybe it eliminates the need for two different reflectors?


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Yoda4561 said:


> Do you have an M60F to compare the beam to?? Interested in how the new reflector pattern fits between the old M60 and M60F optics. With the increased output and wider beam profile maybe it eliminates the need for two different reflectors?


I am sorry, I do not have an M60F. I don't believe I have ever even seen beamshots of the M60F.

When I spoke to Gene he mentioned that the M61 would probably replace both the M60 and M60F, which might answer your question.


----------



## Yoda4561

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> I am sorry, I do not have an M60F. I don't believe I have ever even seen beamshots of the M60F.
> 
> When I spoke to Gene he mentioned that the M61 would probably replace both the M60 and M60F, which might answer your question.



Cool stuff  Now for cree to get on the ball with those Neutral White emitters.


----------



## wacbzz

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

For those special enough to already have them, is there ANY sign of that donut hole in the M61 that was/is so prevalent with the M60??

Here's many fingers crossed hoping not...:sweat:


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I don't know what donut you are talking about, if you mean the slightly dim spot in the center of the hotspot at certain distances on the M60 then yes, the donut is gone on the M61.

But I wouldn't call it a donut... it's barely noticeable and I had to look for one...


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



wacbzz said:


> For those special enough to already have them, is there ANY sign of that donut hole in the M61 that was/is so prevalent with the M60??


Argh, lost my longer post.

I'm reasonably certain that the M61 can't exhibit this, as it is not using the M60 optic. The occasional slight 'donut' in the M60 hotspot has also been described as a slight 'hollow area', I've handled a number of M60's by now and some have not had this, others were barely noticible. Per a post from Gene M, this was due to destructive interference from the optic on some units.

Edit: LOL, carrot got there first, but only because my earlier reply got lost in the transmogrifier. ;-)


----------



## wacbzz

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> I don't know what donut you are talking about, if you mean the slightly dim spot in the center of the hotspot at certain distances on the M60 then yes, the donut is gone on the M61.
> 
> But I wouldn't call it a donut... it's barely noticeable and I had to look for one...



It's extremely noticeable in mine - and I do call it a donut. It reminds me of the SF L4. The fact that it is there in many M60's should not be discounted simply because you had to "look for one." How many people posted here on CPF about that very thing?

But that _is_ great news that it doesn't exist.:thumbsup:


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I don't know what your M60 looks like but on mine I can hardly see a dimmer spot in the middle. The M60 is the only one I own and the only one I've really played with. So please excuse me for believing my M60 is representative of a whole.

Don has really worked some reflector magic here with the M61. It's pretty much my ideal beam, a big wide hotspot with bright flood while still maintaining excellent throw. It is gorgeous with soft edges and no artifacts.


----------



## wacbzz

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I as well have a huge "half moon" dark spot in my M60L, but that didn't dissuade me from purchasing more M60's from Gene. He puts out an excellent product and I cannot wait to get the M61.


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> Don has really worked some reflector magic here with the M61. It's pretty much my ideal beam, a big wide hotspot with bright flood while still maintaining excellent throw. It is gorgeous with *soft edges* and no artifacts.


:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs


----------



## Alberta-Blue

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Alberta-Blue said:


> Hehehehe... I am so anxious about the release of the M61 I am about ready to poop myself!!!


 
I couldnt hold it anymore... :toilet:... !!

Come on Gene... I have my finger on the trigger... gimme a target!!


----------



## Yucca Patrol

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Does anybody know if the lens necessary for the MD2 host will be included or will that have to be bought in addition to the M61?


----------



## jimmy1970

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Yucca Patrol said:


> Does anybody know if the lens necessary for the MD2 host will be included or will that have to be bought in addition to the M61?


 There will be a extra charge for the lens. 

James....


----------



## scot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

My M61 didn't come with a lens, when they're available I'll pick one up for my MD2. No big deal to me!!


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

May I suggest flashlightlens.com?


----------



## Yucca Patrol

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Well, I think it is somewhat lame that people who spend extra $$$with Malkoff to buy a genuine Malkoff MD2 host will have to spend even more to make it work with a new genuine Malkoff drop-in.


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I bet they will work something out like including a window with the MD2 hosts rather than with the dropins. . They are trying to get things launched this week from what we have been told by the main man himself. Give them a chance . I dont think I have heard or read one bad experience with Malkoff just the opposite I have seen 110% above and beyond in CS and product quality and I cant wait to start doing business with this American Company starting with the M61. 

Another M60 came up in the BST and lasted 8 mins. I missed it again


----------



## Owen

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Well, that's a no win situation. People who buy them for a SF aren't going to want to pay extra for a lens they don't need being incorporated into the cost of the drop-in itself. I don't. 
I'd like a M61WL when available for a C2, and will probably end up with a M61W in a VME bezel on a E2DL body. Lenses aren't free, so I'd expect to pay for the one I'll need, and _not_ for one I don't.
Sounds pretty fair to me.


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Buying a lens is the cost of progress. You don't like it, you don't have to buy a M61...


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Yes, thats why I said maybe they will include it with the MD2 hosts which have a smaller opening on the business end . If you already have a SF I would think your stock window will work? I dont think I have read where it is confirmed these need a custom window ? I could be wrong and missed it though. 

Maybe Gene will pipe in on it?


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The only times you'll need the window is on lights or bezels specifically designed for Malkoff's drop-ins. As in, any light with a big gaping hole in the head. All stock Surefires will work just fine.


----------



## scot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The M61 works fine with a stock lens for the 6P or Centurion.


----------



## DimeRazorback

Well I don't think this has been posted yet, but here it is.

Not yet available, but pictures and info is good enough for now!

The Malkoff M61!


----------



## Ronin

There is a thread here:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/256118


----------



## carrot

Yes, I already posted my opinions in the other thread:



carrot said:


> I just got home after hanging out with a fellow flashaholic and showing off my M60 and look what I find waiting for me on my doorstep!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much Gene and Cathy for getting one of these to me so early... I am going to go out and test it now...
> 
> First impressions, it has an enormous, extremely bright hotspot, which, dare I say, far superior to the laser focus of the M60 for most uses. It definitely has lost some throw in the transition to reflector but I think the majority of people will be happier, as the wider hotspot makes the light more useful when not trying to light up skyscrapers. Those who want the best throw possible will continue to cherish their M60's (and I'll continue to use the crap out of mine) but all in all the M61 is incredible. Both have a place in any flashaholic's lineup but I think the M61 will be a real crowd pleaser! The beam is smooth and gorgeous and strongly reminiscent of the L2 and L4, a great big wall of light with a real kick to it. It appears to be a good deal brighter than the M60 as well. IMHO the XP-G is one of the best things to happen in LED technology in a long time and Malkoff's M61 XP-G just reinforces my opinion.
> 
> I also accidentally just looked into the M61 and there's a great big blob obstructing my vision...
> 
> I'm going to have to buy one to put in every one of my C-series Surefires now...





carrot said:


> Hi guys, I'm back. In my testing tonight the M60 gave a bit of tunnel vision compared to the M61 for walking around in the dark, but the M61 was perfect and there was light EVERYWHERE. I also tested the M60 vs. the M61 against trees, etc, that were several hundred feet away and I could make out details as well with the M61 as the M60, although the M60 clearly does throw more light forward. In fact, I preferred the M61 over the M60 due to the wider beam, which allowed me to get a better sense of my surroundings and my target's surroundings. Now, in using both together I was able to see plenty more details, so perhaps we need a two headed host that runs the M60 and M61... Also, without either I would have been unable to see a feral cat sneaking up on me in an alleyway from several hundred feet away. After he realized I had superior firepower he backed down, slinking off in the other direction, allowing me to safely avert confrontation and undeniable danger.
> 
> Maybe it is time to retire the light collection, because the M61 is all I need!





carrot said:


> WARNING: the Malkoff M61 drop-in may cause uncontrollable smiles and gleeful cackles.


----------



## DimeRazorback




----------



## Vermonter73

:thumbsup: Hopefully the M31 will be along soon. I have an extra MD2 that's waiting for it.


----------



## jac2001

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

_Does anyone have beamshots yet??_

_M61 v. M60._

_Pppllease!!:naughty:_

_J_


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I've been looking for my tripod, can't find it, so no beamshots yet...


----------



## JNewell

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> I am sorry, I do not have an M60F. I don't believe I have ever even seen beamshots of the M60F.
> 
> When I spoke to Gene he mentioned that the M61 would probably replace both the M60 and M60F, which might answer your question.


 
I'd be really interested in any follow-up on this...


----------



## morrisgarages

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



jac2001 said:


> _Does anyone have beamshots yet??_
> 
> _M61 v. M60._
> 
> _Pppllease!!:naughty:_
> 
> _J_




Yes please!!!!!!:twothumbs M61 vs. M60! If the M61 out lights my M60 then its off to ebay for my 2 month old M60.:naughty:


----------



## morrisgarages

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



carrot said:


> I also tested the M60 vs. the M61 against trees, etc, that were several hundred feet away and I could make out details as well with the M61 as the M60, although the M60 clearly does throw more light forward...



Sorry, I just read this now. If the M60 is still a better thrower than the M61 then I'll stick with my M60.:thumbsup: I actually want a little bit more throw out of my M60 to make it an absolutely perfect, reliable, all around light.


----------



## steveG

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Wow, I just saw this thread and caught up!

Will there be a replacement for the M60LL? Is it possible that it will run even longer!?


----------



## stallion2

has the UI been changed? as far as i know the only options for an M30/60 are a switch ring which would only work in an MD2, or an Elzetta that has some tail switch that allows switching modes.


----------



## LumenMan

Vermonter73 said:


> :thumbsup: Hopefully the M31 will be along soon. I have an extra MD2 that's waiting for it.


 
With the new M61, you may not need a M30 or M31. I believe that the voltage operating range of the M61 is around 3.4-9 volts :thumbsup:


----------



## Schuey2002

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Can't wait to get my hands on a M61!!

.

+1000 on those beamshots..


----------



## seale_navy

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

carrot no need for a tripod... just put the camera on some book or something...

we wouldnt mind hehe


----------



## Schuey2002

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Yeah. Just prop that camera on something and start snapping away...


----------



## etc

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



morrisgarages said:


> Sorry, I just read this now. If the M60 is still a better thrower than the M61 then I'll stick with my M60.:thumbsup: I actually want a little bit more throw out of my M60 to make it an absolutely perfect, reliable, all around light.



I might get the new M61, but I will definitely keep my M60/M60L/M60LL.


----------



## Raymond3

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

My new M61s came today. They are hand marked on the side. The center hot spot is larger than the M60 with 8% optic, but every bit as bright. The spill is the most even of any that I have ever seen, and bright. 

The regulation must be really wonderful because there is no apparent loss of lumens between 3.7 and 6.0 volts. I think that there might be a slight increase at the 8.4 and 9 volt level, but not much.

Color tint is white but slightly on the warmer side than any other R5 that I have, and very pleasing. The beam is brigter and total radius is smaller than the same LED in a Quark mini ti AA run with fresh 14500. Reported lumens is 260 to 270 OTF of that light. So, I think that the it is over the stated 260 actual OTF lumens of the M61. The beam is noticably brighter than several other generic R5 drop ins all run on fresh primary batteries from the same batch. 

I keep coming back to look at the spill. It is the nicest I have seen with no donuts or fade rings at all. The hot spot has a very nice transition from hot to spill. GREAT JOB GENE and DON.


----------



## Liteskr42

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

M61s PLURAL????


What the #$%& ?


Did these go up and seel out already? I been cheking 20 times a day for Gods' sake!!

Oh, well, when these come up tonite after I go to bed 11:20pm EST maybe someone can buy an extra one and resell it to me with a 10% fee added on for their troubles cause I know I will miss this run with work or the need for sleep


----------



## v188

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I won't give a technical review of the M61 that came in the mail today, except to say WOW!!!

I've got several M60's, that I use as a LEO. I'll be retiring the M60's and be picking up another M61. The wall of light is awesome, it's everything my M60 is plus even more. It's a true wall of light. On a regular cul de sac, I can light up 3-4 houses down. Not just light up but actually use well enough to look for things/people/threats, etc.

Gene has hit a true walk off home run with this light.


----------



## Woods Walker

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Will the M61L still work in a plastic SF light without heat issues? Thinking that or the M61LL to replace my P60L in my G2Z.


----------



## NotRegulated

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Was there any talk or indication that Gene will make an M61LL or keep the original M60LL?


----------



## jp2515

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*


----------



## FredericoFreire

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Does the M61 comes closed on the front with the front lens? It will work on MD2 flashlights without any additional parts?


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

The M61 is not closed on the front and will need an additional glass window


----------



## v188

Question: What's easiest way to get hi/low with malkoff m60/61 lights? I've got several 2 cell CR123 Surefires I'm using with M60's, but would like a 3 cell SF 9P type light, and get hi/low.

Do I need to buy a non-Surefire body? Buy a SF body and separate switch?

I've got the M60/61 units on hand, to use, just wondering about the bodies/switches.

Anybody help a guy out.


----------



## carrot

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Hi/low switch: http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/highlow-bezel-switch-for-md2-p-58.html


----------



## Vermonter73

LumenMan said:


> With the new M61, you may not need a M30 or M31. I believe that the voltage operating range of the M61 is around 3.4-9 volts :thumbsup:



I'm running an M60 with a single 18650. It drops out of regulation for most of the runtime, and it's not as bright as if it were run off two cells. For this application it's fine. However, I'd like an M31 for max brightness and regulation.


----------



## swrdply400mrelay

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



v188 said:


> Question: What's easiest way to get hi/low with malkoff m60/61 lights? I've got several 2 cell CR123 Surefires I'm using with M60's, but would like a 3 cell SF 9P type light, and get hi/low.



http://www.brigadeqm.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/store/level4c.tam?M5COPY.ctx=29932&M5.ctx=29932


----------



## carrot

stallion2 said:


> has the UI been changed? as far as i know the only options for an M30/60 are a switch ring which would only work in an MD2, or an Elzetta that has some tail switch that allows switching modes.


The M61 works the same, and it has made my Surefire C2 from a never carried but prized light to a favorite and now an EDC in my bag.


----------



## v188

swrdply400mrelay:

Great looking option, but it specifically says for incan lights only, NO Led's. Too bad it looked promising.

Too bad the Malkoff hi/lo won't work on a SF.


----------



## Rothrandir

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

You should be able to use an MD2 head with a Malkoff 3cell body/tailcap shouldn't you?


----------



## LumenMan

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Liteskr42 said:


> M61s PLURAL????
> 
> 
> What the #$%& ?
> 
> 
> Did these go up and seel out already? I been cheking 20 times a day for Gods' sake!!
> 
> Oh, well, when these come up tonite after I go to bed 11:20pm EST maybe someone can buy an extra one and resell it to me with a 10% fee added on for their troubles cause I know I will miss this run with work or the need for sleep


 
They're in stock now so go get your M61 lumen launcher !!


----------



## yuk

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Just ordered mine! :twothumbs


----------



## Paulinski

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



yuk said:


> Just ordered mine! :twothumbs



Same here....


----------



## bc5000

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Is there a discount code at Malkoff ?

ETA-Never mind, tried CPF and it worked. Who'd have thought.


----------



## johnny0000

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I'm in!!!!!!!!! Looks like they just sold out........JUST KIDDING!!!!!! Hurry up and get them before they're gone!


----------



## Brasso

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Just got mine. Still had some at 5:24pm C.


----------



## jasong911

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Just as good as scoring an Atwood!


----------



## bc5000

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

 for one M61.


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Just gave my paypal finger some trigger time!


----------



## TriChrome

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Just ordered my first Malkoff. I hope they're as good as everybody says. Since there's 12 left now it looks like I got lucky number 13!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Ordered mine!!!


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



jac2001 said:


> _Does anyone have beamshots yet??_
> _M61 v. M60._
> _Pppllease!!:naughty:_


+61, yes please.


----------



## optodoofus

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

I've been checking compulsively all week. They weren't up an hour ago, but went back there just now and scored an M61 and an MD2.

Sweet.

optodoofus


----------



## signal 13

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Just checked and they're SOLD OUT!!! Seriously?


----------



## SavageBaer

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Sold out in under an hour! I was in class when i got the email and when I got out to order one, they were gone!! Impressive. If anybody ordered extras let me know


----------



## stallion2

carrot said:


> The M61 works the same, and it has made my Surefire C2 from a never carried but prized light to a favorite and now an EDC in my bag.


 
well i'm about to order one right now...they're in stock. 

i just want to be absolutely sure this is true:
the M30, M60, M61 & eventual M31 have no means for a multi-mode setup EXCEPT:
1) MD2 w/ switch ring
2) Elzetta w/ its tail cap

thats it...nothing else that i'm aware of, right?

i press this question again and more emphatically because it still makes me shake my head at the thought...w/ all we've seen in the last few years, we still only have 2 options for changing modes w/ Gene's lamps.

i would probably get a lot more use out of my M30 as an EDC but i don't like to carry the MD2 a lot because of the risk of scratching the exposed optic (and its kinda heavy for its size) and i believe the Elzetta also has the exposed optic. my M60 is in my CL1H and that would get a lot more use if i could have a low mode.

*$#[email protected]%&*&*$@#@!*&*#@!*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
*IT WENT OUT OF STOCK WHILE I WAS POSTING ABOVE*


----------



## JNewell

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

They're back in stock today. :thumbsup:


----------



## JNewell

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



signal 13 said:


> Just checked and they're SOLD OUT!!! Seriously?


 


SavageBaer said:


> Sold out in under an hour! I was in class when i got the email and when I got out to order one, they were gone!! Impressive. If anybody ordered extras let me know


 
Whoa / wow. I just checked out and got an email confirm timed at 18:41 ET. I must have gotten just about the last one.


----------



## da.gee

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Damn! I was picking up the kids! Missed out.


----------



## curtispdx

*$#[email protected]%&*&*[email protected]#@!*&*#@!*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
*IT WENT OUT OF STOCK WHILE I WAS POSTING ABOVE*[/QUOTE]



Haha. I got the email too and saw that there were only four left at the time... How many did he start out with today?


----------



## JNewell

curtispdx said:


> *$#[email protected]%&*&*[email protected]#@!*&*#@!*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
> *IT WENT OUT OF STOCK WHILE I WAS POSTING ABOVE*


 



> Haha. I got the email too and saw that there were only four left at the time... How many did he start out with today?


 

Dunno...but there will be more...


----------



## JNewell

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



da.gee said:


> Damn! I was picking up the kids! Missed out.


 

There will be more, no question...sign up for another email...


----------



## dragon434

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

edit- nevermind


----------



## yuk

I just got this email form Gene:


> Hello All,
> I would like to thank everyone for their patience with the M61. I will
> continue to get some out as quick as humanly possible. They will be going
> into full production soon and will hopefully be widely available in *6-8 weeks*. Thank You for your support!
> Thanks, Gene
> www.malkoffdevices.com


----------



## JNewell

yuk said:


> I just got this email form Gene:


 
Yeow. I wonder if that means all the ones shipped today are still "built by Gene"?


----------



## kyhunter1

Most likely. Definitely if they have M61 hand engraved on them.


----------



## Policetacteam

I can't believe I got the email stating th M61 was in stock. Within minutes of getting online to order it was already out of stock! Are you kidding me!?! Man that sucks! Back on the waiting list!!! :shakehead


----------



## DM51

I'm merging this with the other (large) Malkoff M61 thread, but the combined thread will have this title, which is more appropriate now the M61 has been released.


----------



## dirtech

I checked immediately when I got the the email via my blackberry. 10 in stock. Now that I'm home, they are all gone.:mecry:


----------



## paintballdad

ARGHH!!! Got the damn email minutes after i left for Costco..........


----------



## dragon434

Policetacteam said:


> I can't believe I got the email stating th M61 was in stock. Within minutes of getting online to order it was already out of stock! Are you kidding me!?! Man that sucks! Back on the waiting list!!! :shakehead



i feel your pain ;(


----------



## Flashlightboy

I placed my order within 3 mins of getting the email and there were 50 in stock at that time. By the time I finished and checking the screen again they were down to 29 and the rest is history.

Oh, did I mention that I got one?!?!?!?!?!


----------



## 276

Why did i have to go to work today:shakehead


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

In all my excitement of scoring a M61, I forgot to order a M61 window and gasket for the MD2, so I had to place another order. 

I made a note, so maybe Cathy will combine my two orders.


----------



## ionizedsky

For those who already got there M61 modules and have a M60 can we please get some comparison photos please... I think someone might have had some up at one point using flicker but they seem to not be working...


----------



## bc5000

I was thinking there would lot more available than just 50. I bought 17 just to give to family and friends next Xmas.





Just kidding. :devil:


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*Re: The Malkoff M61 and multiple levels*



stallion2 said:


> i just want to be absolutely sure this is true:
> the M30, M60, M61 & eventual M31 have no means for a multi-mode setup EXCEPT:
> 1) MD2 w/ switch ring
> 2) Elzetta w/ its tail cap
> 
> thats it...nothing else that i'm aware of, right?


Isn't there a continuously adjustable tailcap for Surefire C bodies? I think it's sold by Lighthound.


----------



## Policetacteam

bc5000,

So YOU are the reason I missed out! Please tell me you are yanking our chains about buying 17! If you are serious you are a cruel cruel man / or woman! 
:sigh:


Just noticed the Just Kidding! :devil: Again...even crueler!! :devil::devil::devil:


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: The Malkoff M61 and multiple levels*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Isn't there a continuously adjustable tailcap for Surefire C bodies? I think it's sold by Lighthound.



http://www.lighthound.com/UNIQ-Cont...ire-C-M-P-Z-and-other-Flashlights_p_2302.html

I have one. Requires at least 6 volts to operated reliably. Allows a regulated flashlilght circuit to run in regulation at any chosen level. SF thread compatable.

Bill


----------



## Liteskr42

Thats friggin awesome. I didnt even get a ******* chance. I have been checking for friggin' day after f'n day . Staying up 2-3 hours late every nite . And they come up at 6pm on friday. Thats just great . 

I cant stand this crap anymore. I am ******* done with this crap:thumbsdow

fanatastic, ejoy the M61s . I have had enough of this bullshit


----------



## jabe1

If anyone gets one and has a Dereelight XP-G drop-in, could you do a comparison please?


----------



## bc5000

Policetacteam said:


> bc5000,
> 
> So YOU are the reason I missed out! Please tell me you are yanking our chains about buying 17! If you are serious you are a cruel cruel man / or woman!
> :sigh:
> 
> 
> Just noticed the Just Kidding! :devil: Again...even crueler!! :devil::devil::devil:





I come close to not even ordering one. I've been happy with my M60. Something just pulled me in.


----------



## LumenMan

bc5000 said:


> I was thinking there would lot more available than just 50. I bought 17 just to give to family and friends next Xmas.
> 
> *Can I be your friend ?!? *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding. :devil:


----------



## Liteskr42

I can tell ya one thing I aint waiting another 6-8 weeks. 

I thought it was a "Couple of Days" on Monday . Kept checking as best I could at the cost of many things. Really put an effort into this . Cpl days go by and then some more time and still nothing then boom witout warning. I'm sorry to be so bitter here but I really feel strung along here and after waiting patiently for WEEKS on this one specific thing to get shafted. I think I am throwing in the towel on this stuff . Be checking on the Market this weekend I am dumping what I have cheap. I do my best to support what I believe in but this is defeating and not fun in the least .This just isnt worth the effort


----------



## DimeRazorback

:thinking:

Nobody can help the fact that they are a highly sought after item. I wanted one but missed out...

There was never a guarantee that you would get one, so I don't see why your so disheartened.

Cheer up champ! :thumbsup:


----------



## kyhunter1

I feel your pain. This thread has really built alot of hype, and now that some were made available, there already gone. That stinks. Gene should really beef up production of his most popular items, as he is almost always sold out...... He is definitlely losing out on alot of potential sales and profit because of this, and Im sure that many are turned off to his products because of it too. I have been frustrated before too with this. I still love most of his products and plan to continue buying, as they are always worth the money and wait. 



Liteskr42 said:


> Thats friggin awesome. I didnt even get a ******** chance. I have been checking for friggin' day after f'n day . Staying up 2-3 hours late every nite . And they come up at 6pm on friday. Thats just great .
> 
> I cant stand this crap anymore. I am ******* done with this crap:thumbsdow
> 
> fanatastic, ejoy the M61s . I have had enough of this bull****


----------



## nanotech17

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

so many stories but the beamshots are still zilch.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

kyhunter1 said:


> I feel your pain. This thread has really built alot of hype, and now that some were made available, there already gone. That stinks. Gene should really beef up production of his most popular items, as he is almost always sold out...... He is definitlely losing out on alot of potential sales and profit because of this, and Im sure that many are turned off to his products because of it too. I have been frustrated before too with this. I still love most of is products and plan to continue buying, as they are always worth the money and wait.



Gene's products have never ever been setup for high volume sales. He builds some then sells some. Loyal buyers have understood this and have lived with it. He is able to manage his inventory this way, I think, and not end of with too many unsold products. I've been a CPF member for a few years now and can not and will not complain about delivery of products from our CPF members. I don't even complain about SF's lag is product deliveries.

Bill


----------



## kyhunter1

I understand his reasoning, and my post was coming from a business standpoint. As I have said before, his stuff is awesome, and worth the wait. 




Bullzeyebill said:


> Gene's products have never ever been setup for high volume sales. He builds some then sells some. Loyal buyers have understood this and have lived with it. He is able to manage his inventory this way, I think, and not end of with too many unsold products. I've been a CPF member for a few years now and can not and will not complain about delivery of products from our CPF members. I don't even complain about SF's lag is product deliveries.
> 
> Bill


----------



## dwminer

Well I'll keep trying and maybe some day I will own an M61.


----------



## bestcounsel

wow, this is crazy.....ive been watching this for some time....

thank GOD i like optics and not reflectors.....


----------



## Policetacteam

> I can tell ya one thing I aint waiting another 6-8 weeks.
> 
> I thought it was a "Couple of Days" on Monday . Kept checking as best I could at the cost of many things. Really put an effort into this . Cpl days go by and then some more time and still nothing then boom witout warning. I'm sorry to be so bitter here but I really feel strung along here and after waiting patiently for WEEKS on this one specific thing to get shafted. I think I am throwing in the towel on this stuff . Be checking on the Market this weekend I am dumping what I have cheap. I do my best to support what I believe in but this is defeating and not fun in the least .This just isnt worth the effort


 
Trust me...I feel your pain! But think of it this way...this is America where anyone can make a hobby into a business and eventually into a thriving business!!! Gene has created a product, and now numerous products, that are in such high demand that the minute they show up on the internet they sell out! Every person on this forum wishes they had that problem!!! I know I do! Does it suck missing out...YES it does...but that is life. The world will keep spinning and more M61's will eventually become available...patience my friend! Patience!!! 

Now c'mon...some beam shots please!


----------



## FrankW438

PoliceScannerMan said:


> In all my excitement of scoring a M61, I forgot to order a M61 window and gasket for the MD2, so I had to place another order.
> 
> I made a note, so maybe Cathy will combine my two orders.


I didn't even notice the link for the M61 Lens and Gasket when I ordered mine last night. We were headed out the door for dinner when I got the email notification. My wife surprised the hell out of me and *told me to order one.* I was overwhelmingly surprised to (A) see the M61 was in stock and (B) have my lovely bride insist that I purchase one. I guess I was so shocked I forgot about ordering a lens. I sent Gene and Cathy an email about my oversight. Hopefully they reply before they ship my M61.

BTW - I can't express how proud I am of my wife. She's the one that actually clicked on the PayPal button for me. Is she fishing for a big Valentine's present? Guess I better go shopping today!

-- Frank


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*Your wife insisted you buy it?*



FrankW438 said:


> My wife surprised the hell out of me and *told me to order one.* I was overwhelmingly surprised to (A) see the M61 was in stock and (B) have my lovely bride insist that I purchase one....
> 
> BTW - I can't express how proud I am of my wife. She's the one that actually clicked on the PayPal button for me. Is she fishing for a big Valentine's present? Guess I better go shopping today!


Um, does she have a sister? A clone?


----------



## Alberta-Blue

Woohoo.... got one of the releases from work!!! Fluked out and checked at exactly the right time and boom boom boom....got er!!!


----------



## dcycleman

Hey, he's not doing this on purpose. He's a small manufacturer of fine things. Gene doesnt have the resources that surefire has, hell, surefire has the resources and is even worse in that manner. People getting all wound up over it is just a compliment to the quality of his work. Heck I've been waiting two months for the two stage switch to get in stock, my ems md2 host is just sitting there. oh well, in time.


----------



## JNewell

Liteskr42 said:


> Thats friggin awesome. I didnt even get a ******* chance. I have been checking for friggin' day after f'n day . Staying up 2-3 hours late every nite . And they come up at 6pm on friday. Thats just great .
> 
> I cant stand this crap anymore. I am ******* done with this crap:thumbsdow
> 
> fanatastic, ejoy the M61s . I have had enough of this bullshit


 
Tell us how you _really_ feel?


----------



## Dead_Nuts

I, too, am disappointed that I missed the email notice. But there will be more and I have other diversions to hold me over until the next batch.


----------



## Dead_Nuts

I was wrong! There was no email notification -- even though I had signed up for one -- just an apology about lack of stock (after they sold out). That really does suck! So, those of us who took the time to ask to be notified were never even given a chance to get in on this early run.

That's not taking care of the folks who helped him get to where he is, IMHO.


----------



## paintballdad

Liteskr42 said:


> Thats friggin awesome. I didnt even get a ******* chance. I have been checking for friggin' day after f'n day . Staying up 2-3 hours late every nite . And they come up at 6pm on friday. Thats just great .
> 
> I cant stand this crap anymore. I am ******* done with this crap:thumbsdow
> 
> fanatastic, ejoy the M61s . I have had enough of this bullshit



WOW! You sound like a kid throwing a fit because they didn't get what they wanted. And what crap are you talking about? That he's just a small manufacturer that's trying to keep up with the demand for his products as best as he can? Or the crap that he won't release a product that doesn't meet his standards? What manufacturer wouldn't want to be able to supply the demand for his products. I'm sure Gene is doing everything he can to get more of his products in the hands of his customers . So, why not just sit back and relax like the rest of us and have a bit of patience.


----------



## Kestrel

+1 here, I'm surprised at some of these posts, fellas. :shakehead This is a *hobby*, not *the meaning of life*. Bullzeyebill has the right attitude, IMO.

I happened to visit the website & saw that the M61's were available for purchase, but decided to wait. I'm not in any rush and & I'm cool with using my very fine M60 for a while more. :shrug:

Edit: Thinking about this some more, this is really a crap attitude. If you want some mass-produced piece of crap, Wal-Mart's doors are open for your business, and for you there are a number of people offshore making mass-market consumer goods at a very low cost. If you want craftsmanship and a well-made product, do business with the *artisans* & *craftsmen* who take pride in their work and whose attitude is that *quality* comes first - remember, this is what *they* enjoy doing. Most people who prefer to purchase a quality product understand that reality and have a corresponding attitude toward it.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

There is another product notification format on Gene's website where you can get notification about a specific product that is sold out, and only that product. When they get it back in stock you will get a notification that your product is available. You would have to act fairly quickly. 

Bill


----------



## Alberta-Blue

Liteskr42 said:


> Thats friggin awesome. I didnt even get a ******* chance. I have been checking for friggin' day after f'n day . Staying up 2-3 hours late every nite . And they come up at 6pm on friday. Thats just great .
> 
> I cant stand this crap anymore. I am ******* done with this crap:thumbsdow
> 
> fanatastic, ejoy the M61s . I have had enough of this bullshit


 

Woah buddy, you need to gear down a notch. There were only 50 or so released and how many CPFer's amoung other non-CPFer's that were awaiting the release of the M61? Of course people are going to be disappointed that they didnt get one (not me... but thats not the issue)...

If you get worked up over FLASHLIGHTS, something that is supposed to be a non competitive fun collectors hobby, then you need to find a new *LOWER STRESS* past time


----------



## pilote

oh man, some of you have the petulant attitude of a 12 year old that didn't get his video game that sold out...

small business, small output; malkoff emails to his list and if you don't hit it before it sells out, too bad...it's not like they're discriminating who they sell to...you missed it, i missed it; BFD, IT'S JUST A FLASHLIGHT!!! :tired:


----------



## ionizedsky

pilote said:


> oh man, some of you have the petulant attitude of a 12 year old that didn't get his video game that sold out...
> 
> small business, small output; malkoff emails to his list and if you don't hit it before it sells out, too bad...it's not like they're discriminating who they sell to...you missed it, i missed it; BFD, IT'S JUST A FLASHLIGHT!!! :tired:



It is not just a flashlight, it is a way of life In the mean time I will sit back and laugh on the inside as I watch the complainers, and I continue to use my M60s:candle:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Liteskr42 said:


> Thats friggin awesome. I didnt even get a ******* chance. I have been checking for friggin' day after f'n day . Staying up 2-3 hours late every nite . And they come up at 6pm on friday. Thats just great .
> 
> I cant stand this crap anymore. I am ******* done with this crap:thumbsdow
> 
> fanatastic, ejoy the M61s . I have had enough of this bullshit



I think this post may have been a lil tongue in cheek, but this is a family forum... :shakehead

You snooze you lose!! :devil:


----------



## paintballdad

Liteskr42 said:


> I can tell ya one thing I aint waiting another 6-8 weeks.
> 
> I thought it was a "Couple of Days" on Monday . Kept checking as best I could at the cost of many things. Really put an effort into this . Cpl days go by and then some more time and still nothing then boom witout warning. I'm sorry to be so bitter here but I really feel strung along here and after waiting patiently for WEEKS on this one specific thing to get shafted. I think I am throwing in the towel on this stuff . Be checking on the Market this weekend I am dumping what I have cheap. I do my best to support what I believe in but this is defeating and not fun in the least .This just isnt worth the effort



This was his follow up post, so i don't think it was tongue in cheek.


----------



## DM51

Feeling frustration in such circumstances is understandable, and most people let it show at one time or another in their lives. It has happened before with hot items here, when a run has been sold out in minutes - in fact it has happened before with Malkoff items. Liteskr42 boiled over there, but we'll leave that now and let things calm down. 

Liteskr42 (if you're still here) take a few deep breaths and try to relax. There will be another run, and you'll get one sooner or later.

Back on topic, please.


----------



## JNewell

ionizedsky said:


> It is not just a flashlight, it is a way of life In the mean time I will sit back and laugh on the inside as I watch the complainers, and I continue to use my M60s:candle:


 
Yes on the M60. I actually found out about the M61 because I wanted to buy another M60. I probably would not have bought the M61, but based on Carrot's posts, I guess I won't be disappointed, though beating the M60 will be very tough. I expect to be using the ones I've got for years to come without any complaints at all. :twothumbs Gene does very fine work.


----------



## 021411

Patience. Many of us here have supported Gene over the years. I know I have...Just hang in there and you'll be able to snag one sooner or later. I received an email alert but I was a day late and a dollar short. Damn afternoon siestas. lol

He is good people and has no intention in screwing anyone over.


----------



## Jay T

But, life is so unpredictable and fragile, without an M61 my life could end like this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgIfMTDTDDM&feature=related


----------



## ginaz

i don't know if anyone remembers but it went like this for the original M60 for quite some time. there would be posts about some in stock and within minutes they would be gone. then a few days/weeks later the same thing. rinse, repeat. i had to wait till the madness subsided to get one and even then they didn't last more than a few days at a stretch


----------



## kyhunter1

Will the beamshot scrooges who *already* have their M61's please post some beamshots!


----------



## DimeRazorback

Big +1!

Beamshots already!!


----------



## Policetacteam

> If you get worked up over FLASHLIGHTS, something that is supposed to be a non competitive fun collectors hobby, then you need to find a new *LOWER STRESS* past time


 
:hahaha: Such as firearms!!!!


----------



## Woods Walker

kyhunter1 said:


> Will the beamshot scrooges who *already* have their M61's please post some beamshots!


----------



## ionizedsky

kyhunter1 said:


> Will the beamshot scrooges who *already* have their M61's please post some beamshots!



+1000000


----------



## BeeEm

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere - I tried googling.

Are there any hosts which will allow multi levels with the Malkoff M60/M61 drop ins? Would this even be possible with these drop ins?


----------



## kyhunter1

You can get a multi level tailcap for surefire 6p style hosts, I think from lighthound.com. Malkoff also sells his own host, which can be upgraded with a hi/lo mode option. 



BeeEm said:


> Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere - I tried googling.
> 
> Are there any hosts which will allow multi levels with the Malkoff M60/M61 drop ins? Would this even be possible with these drop ins?


----------



## kyhunter1

Shame on the beamshot scrooges who *already *have the previllege of owning a M61 and will not share any beamshots with the rest of us! :thumbsdow


----------



## FrankW438

kyhunter1 said:


> Shame on the beamshot scrooges who *already *have the previllege of owning a M61 and will not share any beamshots with the rest of us! :thumbsdow


+1

C'mon, guys! Share the love!


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

I'll let you guys stampede one another to snap up the original M61s. I'm waiting for the warm version...and perhaps a warm M31.


----------



## rumack

I'm looking forward to seeing a warm M61, too. Not that I don't like the tint on the M60, but since I have been bitten by the warm tint bug I would like to check one out.

Would love to see a beamshot comparison between the M60 and M61.

I'm not enough of a flashlight tech to be able to debate optic vs. reflector designs, but one thing I am confident of is that Gene will do everything he can to make the M61 rock solid. When Gene moved the M60 from being handmade to production made, I was concerned that quality would suffer but I have not seen any evidence of a drop in quality and that is very impressive. Sure, stock may be limited with Gene's products but I'm fine with that if the quality is top notch like Gene's.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> I'll let you guys stampede one another to snap up the original M61s. I'm waiting for the warm version...and perhaps a warm M31.


Meanwhile, this morning I bought a Dereelight XPG-R5 (neutral tint) from Flashlightconnection.com and a second Malkoff M30WF, from B/S/T. Hey--I have five 2AA and 3AA bodies and had only one P60-size module among them....


----------



## FrankW438

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> I'll let you guys stampede one another to snap up the original M61s. I'm waiting for the warm version...and perhaps a warm M31.


I really love the warm tint on Gene's drop-ins. I had an M60W MC-E, but it was too floody. I bought an M60W to go with my MD2 to use at work. However, I felt I was giving up too much output for the warm tint. It was a tough call, but I went back to a regular M60 for use on duty. It was better suited for penetrating tinted windows and dark alleys, where the M60W was just a bit lacking.

I have an M30W / VME head / E1 body that I use for EDC, and I absolutely love it. It is the perfect balance of tint, lumen output, throw and size to make it perfect for my day-to-day needs outside of work. 

If Gene can come up with an M61 with a warm-ish tint that doesn't sacrifice too many lumens, I may consider it for duty use. Until then, I will patiently wait for my new M61 to arrive so I can run it through it's paces at work.

-- Frank


----------



## morrisgarages

Maybe those who says they already "have" the M61 doesn't really have it yet.:thumbsdow I mean how long does it really take to install your M60 light it up on whatever, take a picture (doesn't have to be an slr-at this point a camphone will do or whatever camera you have) remove it, install the M61 take a beamshot then upload it here! I mean, what the hell guys?? Everyone's begging for some beamshots and it's still all ?? Or maybe it's not as bright, as good, or there's not much difference with the M60 and they're all embarrassed to show that the wait and the cost for the M61 wasn't really worth it at all.
(Maybe now they'll post honest beamshots guys!-or not!:naughty


----------



## kyhunter1

Gene posted earlier in the thread that he released a few early, so somebody on here has em. You know who you are. It's obvious now that you all do not intend to post any beamshots for us. It's not funny, and I am dissappointed in your character. I was lucky and fortunate to score one of the first 50 M61's that was released. It took checking malkoffdevices relentlessly for days, but I did it. When I get mine, there will be *BEAMSHOTS* in this thread if someone else does not beat me to it.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

What is this childish posting about. I hope that it is in fun, and you guys are not the least bit serious. 

Bill


----------



## kyhunter1

I dont see what is childish about it. At this point, someone could have uploaded atleast a ceiling bounce with a cell phone or something. It kind of spoils the fun a little. 



Bullzeyebill said:


> What is this childish posting about. I hope that it is in fun, and you guys are not the least bit serious.
> 
> Bill


 
I will not be asking for beamshots anymore in this thread. 



kyhunter1 said:


> Gene posted earlier in the thread that he released a few early, so somebody on here has em. You know who you are. It's obvious now that you all do not intend to post any beamshots for us. It's not funny, and I am dissappointed in your character. I was lucky and fortunate to score one of the first 50 M61's that was released. It took checking malkoffdevices relentlessly for days, but I did it. When I get mine, there will be *BEAMSHOTS* in this thread if someone else does not beat me to it.


----------



## cleetus03

*M61 BEAMSHOTS!
**
M61 BEAMSHOTS!
**
M61 BEAMSHOTS!*
*

Will a new proud owner of the M61 pretty pretty please POST some beamshots for all to enjoy?lovecpf
*​


----------



## fisk-king

Bullzeyebill said:


> What is this childish posting about. I hope that it is in fun, and you guys are not the least bit serious.
> 
> Bill




I think its tongue and cheek but I do understand your POV. At least there was no 10 or more consecutive posts riddled with lovecpf and other smilies w/ no constructive post whatsoever like in *other* threads:shakehead.

sorry for the OT rant


----------



## DimeRazorback

I do seriously want to see beamshots.

I do my best to provide them for people, and I would of done so already if I had an M61...

A mediocre beamshot, is better than nothing for people who are so highly interested in this module.


----------



## morrisgarages

DimeRazorback said:


> I do seriously want to see beamshots.
> 
> I do my best to provide them for people, and I would of done so already if I had an M61...
> 
> A mediocre beamshot, is better than nothing for people who are so highly interested in this module.



My point exactly.:thinking: I mean if I owned an M61 and I'm very proud and happy to have it stumping my M60 I would've posted honest comparative beamshots already to show all the people here how good the M61 really is and not just talk about how good it is.:nana: You might even help a couple of guys here and give them something concrete to decide on before plunking $ and wait in line to replace their M60.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Just a side note, USPS is closed today, so no shipping of the M61's released on Friday. :thumbsup:

And about the beamshots, those things take work guys, I have done numerous beamshots during my 5 years here. Its more than just whipping out the camera and snapping a few shots.

Perhaps the owners of the early release have families, busy work/school schedules, etc. They are not required to do them, perhaps one will soon.


----------



## ionizedsky

PoliceScannerMan said:


> They are not required to do them, perhaps one will soon.



Actually I was just looking through the CPF Rules and under.... J/K :laughing:
If it only was in there somewhere we could all sleep better and let our anxiety stop getting the best of us. No biggie on waiting here, I am still waiting for a side switch option on the Wildcats and a scaled down version of the MD2 (slimmer, with VME head and hi/lo capability) :twothumbs


----------



## orbital

DimeRazorback said:


> I do seriously want to see beamshots.
> 
> I do my best to provide them for people, and I would of done so already if I had an M61...
> 
> A mediocre beamshot, is better than nothing for people who are so highly interested in this module.



+

Look at this custom light to see what an XP-G w/ McLeish McR20S reflector looks like,..& beamshot.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/245374

~* Very important*, how far the emitter is 'though' the reflector makes HUGE difference for beam focus.
{.5mm either way, makes or breaks}


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

PoliceScannerMan said:


> And about the beamshots, those things take work guys, I have done numerous beamshots during my 5 years here. Its more than just whipping out the camera and snapping a few shots.
> 
> Perhaps the owners of the early release have families, busy work/school schedules, etc. They are not required to do them, perhaps one will soon.


THANK YOU, PoliceScannerMan for pointing this out. I have a family and a 3.8-hour round-trip commute, leaving little time for discretionary activities like beam shots.


----------



## scot

PoliceSannerMan is dead on. I'm a single dad with a 3 year old that has a Taylor Spatial Frame bolted to his lower leg, I work full time. Life gets quite hectic. While this is a great hobby, often times other things are definitely more important. Back on topic...
I took some beam shots last night, tried to attach them and learned that I'm too new....can't attach anything yet!!!
The M60 definitely out throws the M61, with that said, I'm still surprised at the reach the M61 has!! The beam(hot spot and spill) to me appears similar to the 6PLED yet way more powerful. Gene told me that at turn on, the M61 is 300+ lumens, as it warms it settles in around 260-270 lumens.
It's a fabulous dropin, great runtime, at 130 mins my 18650 was still above 3.4 V.
I use this dropin every day and I haven't felt handycapped in any way yet. I'll definitely get a 2nd one


----------



## kyhunter1

Had the same problem when I first tried to upload pics here too. You have to host them on photobucket, imageshak, or similar web service. All you have to do then is copy the direct link URL from your service, then click insert image on your cpf post and then copy the link in. Ounce you click ok to confirm, the pics will show up in your post. 

Also, that runtime sounds impressive. Was the voltage reading took under load while the light was on? The cells will always have a little voltage sag to consider while on. 3.4v at rest means the cell will show less while on. Sounds like the M61 will regulate nicely on a single 18650 which is a big accomplishment for a 9 volt drop in. 




scot said:


> PoliceSannerMan is dead on. I'm a single dad with a 3 year old that has a Taylor Spatial Frame bolted to his lower leg, I work full time. Life gets quite hectic. While this is a great hobby, often times other things are definitely more important. Back on topic...
> I took some beam shots last night, tried to attach them and learned that I'm too new....can't attach anything yet!!!
> The M60 definitely out throws the M61, with that said, I'm still surprised at the reach the M61 has!! The beam(hot spot and spill) to me appears similar to the 6PLED yet way more powerful. Gene told me that at turn on, the M61 is 300+ lumens, as it warms it settles in around 260-270 lumens.
> It's a fabulous dropin, great runtime, at 130 mins my 18650 was still above 3.4 V.
> I use this dropin every day and I haven't felt handycapped in any way yet. I'll definitely get a 2nd one


----------



## scot

Hi kyhunter1, the voltage was not taken under load. I just took the battery out every 10 minutes and checked the voltage.

Gene does say the M61 runs direct drive below 3.4V.

Batteries I use are AW 18650, 2600 mAh


----------



## defloyd77

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Look at this custom light to see what an XP-G w/ McLeish McR20S reflector looks like,..& beamshot.
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/245374
> 
> ~* Very important*, how far the emitter is 'though' the reflector makes HUGE difference for beam focus.
> {.5mm either way, makes or breaks}



This isn't the same reflector though, is it?


----------



## TriChrome

I'm guessing here, but a regular P60 drop-in is 26mm wide, with the good 3mm rim the P61 has on each side it's probably pretty darn close to that 20mm McLeish reflector so the beam should be pretty similar.


----------



## carrot

Actually, I think the P61 is a good analogy to the M61... they are quite similar in beam shape, if my memory holds. I don't think I have any P61's any more...


----------



## NotRegulated

scot said:


> PoliceSannerMan is dead on. I'm a single dad with a 3 year old that has a Taylor Spatial Frame bolted to his lower leg, I work full time. Life gets quite hectic. While this is a great hobby, often times other things are definitely more important. Back on topic...
> I took some beam shots last night, tried to attach them and learned that I'm too new....can't attach anything yet!!!
> The M60 definitely out throws the M61, with that said, I'm still surprised at the reach the M61 has!! The beam(hot spot and spill) to me appears similar to the 6PLED yet way more powerful. Gene told me that at turn on, the M61 is 300+ lumens, as it warms it settles in around 260-270 lumens.
> It's a fabulous dropin, great runtime, at 130 mins my 18650 was still above 3.4 V.
> I use this dropin every day and I haven't felt handycapped in any way yet. I'll definitely get a 2nd one



Nice comparison to the Surefire P60L lamp assembly. I've always liked the beam pattern on the P60L. The hot spot and smooth spill with no artifacts makes for a pleasant beam, however, I've always wished the P60L would be much brighter. If Malkoff's M61 is similiar in beam quality to the Surefire P60L but brighter, that would be a winner combination in my book. Additionally, with the new M61 input voltage starting at 3.4v the dropin is more versatile since we can use rechargeables and primaries.

And carrot, the incan P61 has always had a terrific beam. In many ways, the P60LED is similar in beamshape. The new Malkoff M61 sounds like the ideal dropin.


----------



## Csp203

This thread seams to be filled with people that know a lot about Malkoffs products. I have a question kinda on subject while we are waiting for beam shots. I know this may sound like high treason. If one had a md2, bought a m61 and a lens, would the lens in turn enable the md2 to accept a p60 drop in that was not a Malkoff. 

I am sorry if it seams like a silly question. I just bought a md2 and high/low adapter am I plan on waiting for a m61. I will have to send the m61 to my brothers house, wife would flip out if she knew I paid almost 80$ for a flashlight that still needed the actual light.

Thanks


----------



## kyhunter1

You could probably get some to actually fit inside, but the smaller opening in the bezel would cut down on your sidespill. I dont think it would bother the hotspot any. You are better off with a Surefire 6P style host for those drop ins. 



Csp203 said:


> This thread seams to be filled with people that know a lot about Malkoffs products. I have a question kinda on subject while we are waiting for beam shots. I know this may sound like high treason. If one had a md2, bought a m61 and a lens, would the lens in turn enable the md2 to accept a p60 drop in that was not a Malkoff.
> 
> I am sorry if it seams like a silly question. I just bought a md2 and high/low adapter am I plan on waiting for a m61. I will have to send the m61 to my brothers house, wife would flip out if she knew I paid almost 80$ for a flashlight that still needed the actual light.
> 
> Thanks


----------



## Liteskr42

Just posting an apology here after stepping back for a cpl days. I went down a path of obsession here that I vowed to never do again. I really was all flustered and quite hot headed when I started posting . I am embarrased at my use of distasteful language and apologize to you all for it.

I took the weekend to calm down and get myself grounded again. I hope you lucky stiffs enjoy your M61s!!! and please post some installed pics for us to enjoy as soon as you can ok?

I will check back on Malkof in a month and see what he has going. sooner or later they will be in stock consistently and I will invariably pick one up.

Thanx for not being to harsh on me guys!!:sigh:


----------



## paintballdad

Make sure you sign up for the M61 in stock notification. That way you'll get the email when they become available.


----------



## DM51

Liteskr42 said:


> Thanx for not being to harsh on me guys!!:sigh:


Good to see you back!


----------



## DimeRazorback

Liteskr42 said:


> Just posting an apology here after stepping back for a cpl days. I went down a path of obsession here that I vowed to never do again. I really was all flustered and quite hot headed when I started posting . I am embarrased at my use of distasteful language and apologize to you all for it.
> 
> I took the weekend to calm down and get myself grounded again. I hope you lucky stiffs enjoy your M61s!!! and please post some installed pics for us to enjoy as soon as you can ok?
> 
> I will check back on Malkof in a month and see what he has going. sooner or later they will be in stock consistently and I will invariably pick one up.
> 
> Thanx for not being to harsh on me guys!!:sigh:




Good on you mate! :thumbsup:



Sometimes things in life can get a little difficult, and everyone has their moments!


----------



## Dead_Nuts

paintballdad said:


> Make sure you sign up for the M61 in stock notification. That way you'll get the email when they become available.



You see, that's what had me upset. I HAD signed up for the M61 notification. I was on my computer Friday evening and there was no notification. I wasn't upset that I missed a batch; I was upset that I had done what I was supposed to but still didn't get the heads up.

But in the grand scheme of life, missing out on a batch of drop-ins -- even Gene's -- is inconsequential.


----------



## paintballdad

Dead_Nuts said:


> You see, that's what had me upset. I HAD signed up for the M61 notification. I was on my computer Friday evening and there was no notification. I wasn't upset that I missed a batch; I was upset that I had done what I was supposed to but still didn't get the heads up.
> 
> But in the grand scheme of life, missing out on a batch of drop-ins -- even Gene's -- is inconsequential.



Dead_Nuts, make sure you get a confirmation email of your in stock notification. If you didn't get a confirmation email then the subscription might not have gone through correctly.


----------



## Brasso

I was checking the site every couple of hours waiting for them to come up for sale. I bought mine before I ever received the notification. 

There will be more.


----------



## Fooboy

Guys - sorry I am late to the party! I tried to search for this but couldn't find the answer so forgive me if this was already asked.

I noticed that the M61 said it can be used with the G2 (nitrolon) series. Is this true? I would think it would get too hot.

Thanks guys.


----------



## TriChrome

Just received confirmation that my P61 shipped. If I get it before beamshots are posted I'll take a couple ghetto shots. I don't have a P60 to compare it to though (just a NiteCore SR3 and Extreme, SST-50 P60 drop-in and a M1X).


----------



## copperfox

I'm interested to know how the M61 compares to other XP-G dropins like my Thru-nite 3-mode from Battery Junction. I'll bet that the thru-nite has better throw due to the wider reflector.


----------



## bc5000

Fooboy said:


> Guys - sorry I am late to the party! I tried to search for this but couldn't find the answer so forgive me if this was already asked.
> 
> I noticed that the M61 said it can be used with the G2 (nitrolon) series. Is this true? I would think it would get too hot.
> 
> Thanks guys.



It will get hot if you leave the light on for very long, but you won't notice because the heat will stay inside which is not a good thing.

I just bought the aluminum Surefire 6P for my new M61.


----------



## Dead_Nuts

paintballdad said:


> Dead_Nuts, make sure you get a confirmation email of your in stock notification. If you didn't get a confirmation email then the subscription might not have gone through correctly.



I checked and I'm still registered to be notified. Like I said, it's not the end of the world. 

I've been using several generations of Gene's products and have never been disappointed by any of them. Right now, Malkoff drop-ins sit in a handfull of my most used lights; including a couple of carbine lights (M60F & M60).


----------



## Agile54

What both DM51 & DimeRazorback said, good on you Liteskr42.


----------



## scot

Hey copperfox, I've got the same Thrunite dropin you've got. Comparing both side by side, the Thrunite does have a little more throw and less spill. At turn on though, the M61 seems brighter, and after 3 minutes or so it's even more noticeable.


----------



## copperfox

Hmm, thanks Scot.


----------



## CallMeDave

Dead_Nuts said:


> I checked and I'm still registered to be notified...



Did you receive the auto generated confirmation email when you first signed up for the product notification?

You might try and sign up for some other product's notification and pay close attention to your mail client and/or log for the message subject _"Back In Stock Notification Subscription for..."_.


Dave


----------



## Vesper

CallMeDave said:


> Did you receive the auto generated confirmation email when you first signed up for the product notification?
> 
> You might try and sign up for some other product's notification and pay close attention to your mail client and/or log for the message subject _"Back In Stock Notification Subscription for..."_.
> 
> 
> Dave



Not sure if Gene still does, but he previously had issues sending out more than 100 emails at a time. Might be the case still and not everyone gets them all the time:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2837726&postcount=104


----------



## JNewell

Fooboy said:


> Guys - sorry I am late to the party! I tried to search for this but couldn't find the answer so forgive me if this was already asked.
> 
> I noticed that the M61 said it can be used with the G2 (nitrolon) series. Is this true? I would think it would get too hot.
> 
> Thanks guys.


 
Gene posted a while back that there was no issue using the M60 in an all-nitrolon G2, other than the thermal cutback after a while of continuous use - but no risk or damage. Not sure about the M61 but I would guess it is similar.


----------



## kyhunter1

Quote from Malkoff's website concerning the M60F, which is the same brightness level as the M60:

Note: This drop-in module was intended to operate at maximum brightness for tactical usage similar to the original setup. Operating the unit for more than 15 continuous minutes in plastic lights may cause damage to the drop-in module. This is not an issue in metal lights. 



JNewell said:


> Gene posted a while back that there was no issue using the M60 in an all-nitrolon G2, other than the thermal cutback after a while of continuous use - but no risk or damage. Not sure about the M61 but I would guess it is similar.


----------



## NotRegulated

Last night I pulled out my first generation Malkoff M60 Q2. You know, the one with the reflector! I wanted to compare its beam profile to the latest M60 Q5's beam profile. 
Aside from the brightness differences of the LED's, the older unit has a much smoother beam profile, with a less defined hotspot similiar to the Surefire P60L. The newer unit has a very defined hot spot and has much more throw. 
From what I have read so far in these posts, the new M61 looks like a brighter more efficient model of Gene's first production units.
Waiting for beam shots, analysis of beam shots, discussion of beams and beam shots, arguments about beams and beam shots, etc.


----------



## scot

http://s813.photobucket.com/albums/zz52/chukkar546/beam shots/?action=view&current=101_0527.jpg
beamshots of M60 and M61. Go easy on me guys, this is all new to me.


----------



## kyhunter1

Hooray! We finally have a beamshot!


----------



## DimeRazorback

Great beamshots!

Thank you so much! :twothumbs


----------



## kyhunter1

Scot, I will insert your pics for you. PM me and I will tell you how I did it. 

(Edit) Top pic is the M61, bottom is the former M60.

M61








M60


----------



## TriChrome

Which pic is which? The top looks brighter, slightly larger beam, and a warmer color (hope thats the M61).

Was the F-stop and exposure time the same for each photo? Thanks for taking the pics!


----------



## kyhunter1

I edited the post to match the beamshot to the correct drop in. These are Scot's beamshots, I just uploaded them for him. 



TriChrome said:


> Which pic is which? The top looks brighter, slightly larger beam, and a warmer color (hope thats the M61).
> 
> Was the F-stop and exposure time the same for each photo? Thanks for taking the pics!


----------



## scot

TriChrome, the 'slightly' warmer pic is the M61. Camera is just a cheap Kodak...each shot was something like 1.7 sec exposure, same for each one. 

Kinda disappointed because the pictures aren't really the same as standing there and using the lights. Maybe I should try longer exposure?

Using the two side by side the M61 is significantly brighter, hard to tell from pictures though!!


----------



## yuk

Thank you scot, kyhunter1! :twothumbs


----------



## Liteskr42

Great pics. You did a fine job. Very easy to see the difference.

Is that an orange tree or something? I have to say these pics though helpful are also hurtful. It is 24 deg. where I am now and 3 new inches of snow on the ground and here you are taking beamshots of trees with leaves on them and flowers or oranges on them to boot!!!! In the future please try and shine your lights on objects less indicative of your balmy climate please? You are depressing me!!:sigh:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Liteskr42 said:


> Great pics. You did a fine job. Very easy to see the difference.
> 
> Is that an orange tree or something? I have to say these pics though helpful are also hurtful. It is 24 deg. where I am now and 3 new inches of snow on the ground and here you are taking beamshots of trees with leaves on them and flowers or oranges on them to boot!!!! In the future please try and shine your lights on objects less indicative of your balmy climate please? You are depressing me!!:sigh:



I am in FL, and it is 28 degrees this AM. BURRRRRR!!! I cant wait until lunch, it will be 60. :nana:

Great beamshots man!!!!


----------



## RichS

Fooboy said:


> Guys - sorry I am late to the party! I tried to search for this but couldn't find the answer so forgive me if this was already asked.
> 
> I noticed that the M61 said it can be used with the G2 (nitrolon) series. Is this true? I would think it would get too hot.
> 
> Thanks guys.


This is taken right from his M61 sales page. Seems to indicate using a all Nitrolon G2 is not a good idea. http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m61-mod-to-fit-surefire-p-7.html

Note: This drop-in module was intended to operate at maximum brightness for tactical usage similar to the original setup. Operating the unit for more than 15 continuous minutes in plastic lights may cause damage to the drop-in module. This is not an issue in metal lights or in plastic lights with a metal head.


----------



## Yoda4561

Yeah, unless something has changed very recently, the Malkoff modules don't have a temp sensing circuit to lower output, that's the surefire P60L. The original G2L's and G2's have a polymer head and body, the new ones have an aluminum head so maybe that's where the confusion comes in. Using an aluminum head is fine, though I wouldn't risk it with an MCE any of the normal malkoff M60/30's are good to go.


----------



## Kestrel

BTW since we're on this topic I've been using the heck out of my M60 in a nitrolon G3 w/ aluminum head all this winter - works like a champ.

OK, back on topic, let's get more beamshots up. :huh:


----------



## kramer5150

Can you post some white wall beams? I am curious how gradually the spill cuts out to the extreme sides.

thanks!!
:twothumbs


----------



## Raymond3

Runtime test: I fully charged two Trustfire 18650 2500 mAh batteries from the same batch. Each was on it's third charge. One was put into an Ultrafire WF-016 wth a SSC-P7, the other into a Solarforce L2 with a Malkoff M61. The P7 was slightly brighter overall, with a larger hot spot, and about the same spill size and brightness. (I would estimate about 270 otf for the M61 vs about 350 oft for the P7). Both lights were left on continuously in a room about 65 degrees. The Ultrafire went to very low at 1 hour and 10 minutes. The Malkoff stayed about the same brightness right up until 2 hours and 16 minutes, then went to a low light state. The Malkoff provided slightly less light, but for just about twice as long as the P7.

One very noticible difference was that the Ultrafire, even with much larger head and better heat fins was very hot to the touch on both the head and body. But the L2 was only warm, and easily holdable at both the head and body.

This Malkoff test shows me that it is effecient and a usable unit for field use.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Excellent sleuthing Raymond3!!! 

Very impressive runtime for 270 lumens!!! :huh:


----------



## DM51

Raymond3 said:


> Runtime test: I fully charged two Trustfire 18650 2500 mAh batteries from the same batch. Each was on it's third charge. One was put into an Ultrafire WF-016 wth a SSC-P7, the other into a Solarforce L2 with a Malkoff M61. The P7 was slightly brighter overall, with a larger hot spot, and about the same spill size and brightness. (I would estimate about 270 otf for the M61 vs about 350 oft for the P7). Both lights were left on continuously in a room about 65 degrees. The Ultrafire went to very low at 1 hour and 10 minutes. The Malkoff stayed about the same brightness right up until 2 hours and 16 minutes, then went to a low light state. The Malkoff provided slightly less light, but for just about twice as long as the P7.
> 
> One very noticible difference was that the Ultrafire, even with much larger head and better heat fins was very hot to the touch on both the head and body. But the L2 was only warm, and easily holdable at both the head and body.
> 
> This Malkoff test shows me that it is effecient and a usable unit for field use.


Excellent mini-review. Very concise and well presented, giving us a great deal of useful information - thanks!


----------



## JNewell

Kestrel said:


> BTW since we're on this topic I've been using the heck out of my M60 in a nitrolon G3 w/ aluminum head all this winter - works like a champ.
> 
> OK, back on topic, let's get more beamshots up. :huh:


 
Yes, my faulty memory - what Gene posted was that the M60 was fine in a G2 body with an aluminum bezel (such as a G2L, or a G2 retrofitted with an aluminum bezel):



Gene43 said:


> The M60 will be fine in a nitrolon light with a metal head.
> 
> Thanks, Gene


----------



## JNewell

kyhunter1 said:


> Quote from Malkoff's website concerning the M60F, which is the same brightness level as the M60:
> 
> Note: This drop-in module was intended to operate at maximum brightness for tactical usage similar to the original setup. Operating the unit for more than 15 continuous minutes in plastic lights may cause damage to the drop-in module. This is not an issue in metal lights.


 
Yes, faulty memory. What Gene posted was the nitrolon body with an aluminum bezel (such as a G2L), not the all-nitrolon G2.


----------



## Brasso

WoW !!!!

Mine arrived today.

What a perfect beam. Perfekt! Smooth fade from hot to spill. Absolutely artifact free. Zero, zilch, nada. 

I love it.


----------



## ionizedsky

Well it seems that Gene is releasing a clip for the MD2 after long awaited anticipation. Well I guess I might just have to order a MD2+Clip+M61:naughty: When it all is available. Hmm, what a nice EDC this would be combined with an AW18650 2600mah:twothumbs


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

ionizedsky said:


> Well it seems that Gene is releasing a clip for the MD2 after long awaited anticipation. Well I guess I might just have to order a MD2+Clip+M61:naughty: When it all is available. Hmm, what a nice EDC this would be combined with an AW18650 2600mah:twothumbs



Linky?

Or is this insider info? :naughty:


----------



## nuggett

out of stock
out of stock
out of stock
out of stock


----------



## ionizedsky

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Linky?
> 
> Or is this insider info? :naughty:



http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/pocket-clip-and-tail-shroud-to-fit-md2-p-84.html



nuggett said:


> out of stock
> out of stock
> out of stock
> out of stock



Be patient, more on the way soon.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Good to hear that the clip setup is selling well. I missed out too.

Bill


----------



## RichS

Great pics kyhunter1! I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty to make an animated gif out of them. I just wanted to see the beams in a closer comparison.

It looks to me like the M60 has a decent amount more throw than the M61 (most likely due to the optic), but the M61 has a much larger hotspot. When I stepped back a ways from the cycling gif, I can really see the additional intensity of the hotspot in the M60 image. However, I think that a little of this may be due to the extra light bounce from the very cool tint M60 compared to the M61.

The M61 has a much smoother, warmer beam.


----------



## kramer5150

Raymond3 said:


> Runtime test: I fully charged two Trustfire 18650 2500 mAh batteries from the same batch. Each was on it's third charge. One was put into an Ultrafire WF-016 wth a SSC-P7, the other into a Solarforce L2 with a Malkoff M61. The P7 was slightly brighter overall, with a larger hot spot, and about the same spill size and brightness. (I would estimate about 270 otf for the M61 vs about 350 oft for the P7). Both lights were left on continuously in a room about 65 degrees. The Ultrafire went to very low at 1 hour and 10 minutes. The Malkoff stayed about the same brightness right up until 2 hours and 16 minutes, then went to a low light state. The Malkoff provided slightly less light, but for just about twice as long as the P7.
> 
> One very noticible difference was that the Ultrafire, even with much larger head and better heat fins was very hot to the touch on both the head and body. But the L2 was only warm, and easily holdable at both the head and body.
> 
> This Malkoff test shows me that it is effecient and a usable unit for field use.



Nice summary...

2x the run time sounds about right. An XPG only needs ~1.2A to produce ~250L OTF, even more if the host is a good heatsink.

:thumbsup:


----------



## morrisgarages

Finally!:twothumbs Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for the beamshots! I don't care if they're from some cheap camera as long as we get an idea. Not much dramatic difference over the M60 though.:shrug: I was hoping for something that would really significantly outshine my M60. I guess I'll wait for the next M6 series.


----------



## MrGman

I have one on the way and there will be a video coming as soon as I get it comparing it to the M60 and other "P60 200 lumen class reflectorized" lights when I do. 

In my totally new top secret man cave of truth.


----------



## Owen

That beamshot makes a standard M61 look pretty tempting. I don't care for more throw, and along with the warmer tint, that big hotspot, wide spill, and the smooth transition between them made obvious in the foreground add up to a fantastic beam, IMO. 
Anybody want to do one compared to a M60W for us neutral lovers? Even tiny color differences jump out at me, so I don't want to assume too much from one beamshot...


----------



## kyhunter1

These are Scot's pics, I just uploaded them for him. They are nice beamshots. Kudos to Scot for being the first to get them to us!



RichS said:


> Great pics kyhunter1! I hope you don't mind me taking the liberty to make an animated gif out of them. I just wanted to see the beams in a closer comparison.
> 
> It looks to me like the M60 has a decent amount more throw than the M61 (most likely due to the optic), but the M61 has a much larger hotspot. When I stepped back a ways from the cycling gif, I can really see the additional intensity of the hotspot in the M60 image. However, I think that a little of this may be due to the extra light bounce from the very cool tint M60 compared to the M61.
> 
> The M61 has a much smoother, warmer beam.


----------



## carrot

Is it clear to everyone now just how good McGizmo's reflectors are? Don and Gene should work together all the time!


----------



## Vesper

carrot said:


> Is it clear to everyone now just how good McGizmo's reflectors are? Don and Gene should work together all the time!



Yea, that's a really nice beam. Also, on that M61 at least, it has a really nice tint. I'd also love to see it compared to a M60W.


----------



## Owen

Yeah, I'm not a fan of many things, but after using McR18s, 19, 20s, a 27, and a 38, have to say that Don's stuff pretty much rules as far as reflectors are concerned. Whenever I had choices, and tried different things, a McR-whichever is what ended up in the light.


----------



## Fooboy

Gene replied regarding G2

Do not use it in an all nitrolon light for more than 10-15 minutes. *It will overheat.

Thanks, Gene


----------



## Alberta-Blue

Anyone know if the M61s were accidentally oversold?

I just checked my order status and its still processing after the payment on Feb 12th. I have never had an experience where Gene has taken this long to dispatch an item I have ordered.


----------



## kyhunter1

That is potentially possible, because I remember seing on the website last Friday a negative number of units in stock after they had sold out. 



Alberta-Blue said:


> Anyone know if the M61s were accidentally oversold?
> 
> I just checked my order status and its still processing after the payment on Feb 12th. I have never had an experience where Gene has taken this long to dispatch an item I have ordered.


----------



## Alberta-Blue

kyhunter1 said:


> That is potentially possible, because I remember seing on the website last Friday a negative number of units in stock after they had sold out.


 
Uh oh.... Gene, any chance your out there and want to chime in on this?


----------



## scot

M60W....not taken at the same time or exactly the same spot. I think only good to show tint comparison.
Maybe RichS could add this to the others.http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz52/chukkar546/101_0546.jpg


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Alberta-Blue said:


> Anyone know if the M61s were accidentally oversold?
> 
> I just checked my order status and its still processing after the payment on Feb 12th. I have never had an experience where Gene has taken this long to dispatch an item I have ordered.



Phone him.

Bill


----------



## Alberta-Blue

Bullzeyebill said:


> Phone him.
> 
> Bill


 
I e-mailed him... Ill give him a little bit of time before I actually get on the phone. After all, Gene is a busy man.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Alberta-Blue said:


> I e-mailed him... Ill give him a little bit of time before I actually get on the phone. After all, Gene is a busy man.



Call him anyway, tomorrow. Better you contact him and get a response before posting about issues of delivery.

Bill


----------



## Alberta-Blue

Bullzeyebill said:


> Call him anyway, tomorrow. Better you contact him and get a response before posting about issues of delivery.
> 
> Bill


 
I would *NEVER* post anything quite so damning, especially about someone who's products and customer service I love and revere so much.... hense why I am asking to see if any one else out there has any info on this point (I really dont want to harass Gene without reason with a project as big as the M61 on the go)

Even if it did oversell... No biggie. Its an absolute given that Gene and Cathy will correct ANY issue (and Im not saying there is one) as soon as they are humanly able to do so. :twothumbs


----------



## fespo276

Alberta-Blue said:


> I would *NEVER* post anything quite so damning, especially about someone who's products and customer service I love and revere so much.... hense why I am asking to see if any one else out there has any info on this point (I really dont want to harass Gene without reason with a project as big as the M61 on the go)
> 
> Even if it did oversell... No biggie. Its an absolute given that Gene and Cathy will correct ANY issue (and Im not saying there is one) as soon as they are humanly able to do so. :twothumbs



I, too, was lucky enough to score one of these. I ordered on Friday, of course, and mine shipped (according to the website) on Wednesday. I remember someone said in an earlier post that theirs shipped on Tuesday, so it looks like they went out on at least two different days, maybe more(?). My order number was 4532, and my Yahoo confirmation email time was 6:19pm EST, if these numbers are accurate and have any significance. 

Hope this info helps.


----------



## Alberta-Blue

fespo276 said:


> I, too, was lucky enough to score one of these. I ordered on Friday, of course, and mine shipped (according to the website) on Wednesday. I remember someone said in an earlier post that theirs shipped on Tuesday, so it looks like they went out on at least two different days, maybe more(?). My order number was 4532, and my Yahoo confirmation email time was 6:19pm EST, if these numbers are accurate and have any significance.
> 
> Hope this info helps.


 
Im 4535... so Im not far behind you. Timestamp: 2010-02-12T23:49:14Z as per Gene's site. Too bad I cant remember where the remaining units count was when I ordered. Mine is also coming to Canada.... so maybe that is an added complication.

Im going into night rotation soon and I was hoping to get the M61 before then so I could get it through its paces.


----------



## Vesper

One of my orders (my MC-E I think) said "processing" up to the time the mailman dumped it on my porch. You could still be ok. He's surly over-worked and undermanned - especially lately.:sweat:


----------



## Owen

Vesper said:


> He's surly over-worked and undermanned - especially lately.:sweat:


I'd be surly, too, if people kept asking me all these questions

btw, scot, thank you for the additional beamshot.


----------



## BigHonu

Those M61 vs M60 shots were excellent. I don't know how far away the tree was, but I do like the way Don's reflector evens out the beam making a seamless transition from the spot to the corona. Looks like Gene has another grand slam on his hands!


----------



## yuk

My order number is 4503 and still processing... :candle:
Can't wait to get the new Holy Grail of dropins in my hands!


----------



## Liteskr42

wOW!! That clip on the MD2 is AWESOME!!!! I may have to get that setup also.

I got a notification on the clips and it said they would be in stock in a cpl days. I dont know if they have sold out like mentioned, just not in yet maybe?


----------



## RichS

scot said:


> M60W....not taken at the same time or exactly the same spot. I think only good to show tint comparison.
> Maybe RichS could add this to the others.http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz52/chukkar546/101_0546.jpg


 
Thanks again scot! I'm curious - what did you have the white balance set to? It looks to me like the M61 is as warm as the M60W. I didn't think the XPG was quite that warm in color.

Here are all three in an animated Gif:

*M60 --->M60W --->M61*


----------



## Flashlightboy

I was in the last batch of M61 orders and got mine today in CA. 

Maybe tonight I'll put it in my 9P if I can find the time.


----------



## flatline

I'm looking at the beam shots of the M61 and M60W and they look pretty similar tint-wise. Does anyone know what tint bins the M60W and M61 would be classified as?

--flatline


----------



## kyhunter1

Got my M61 today! Here are a couple of ceiling bounce comparison shots between my M61 and Quark 123^2. Im not a pro on beamshots, so these are the best I can offer till I learn more about my camera. 

M61 in my 6p with two primaries.








Quark






Eye candy!


----------



## Liteskr42

Great pics Kyhunter!!

I like how you can see the edge of the brass heatsink in there thru the front window. Now where did you get that cool bezel ring? I have one with the teardrop cutouts to aid in removal but yours is machined totally smooth. Looks cool


----------



## Owen

flatline said:


> I'm looking at the beam shots of the M61 and M60W and they look pretty similar tint-wise. Does anyone know what tint bins the M60W and M61 would be classified as?
> 
> --flatline


M60W uses a 5A Cree XR-E. I would assume older ones were Q2s, and newer ones probably Q3s. 
Assuming further, it's probably safe to say that we're seeing some adjustment from the camera in those beamshots. Hard to imagine that much similarity between standard and neutral emitters. 
'Course if I find out they're somehow true to color, I'll be ordering a M61 immediately


----------



## etc

Would be great to compare M60 and M61 side by side.


----------



## kyhunter1

The M61 does look really cool in there! It is a Lumens Factory stainless bezel ring that goes with the Seraph series. It works perfectly on SF 6P's. Perfect fit and smooth finish. Email LF directly, and they will let you purchase one if you like as it is not listed buy itself on the website. After I found out about this little secret, I dont even consider any of the other bezel ring options. 



Liteskr42 said:


> Great pics Kyhunter!!
> 
> I like how you can see the edge of the brass heatsink in there thru the front window. Now where did you get that cool bezel ring? I have one with the teardrop cutouts to aid in removal but yours is machined totally smooth. Looks cool


----------



## kyhunter1

Someone PM me how to set my Nikon L12 5 megapixel camera for optimum beamshots, and I will post a side by side comparison with the M61 and M60. I tried earlier, but my camera made the tints look the same even though my M60 is noticeably cooler than the M61. 



etc said:


> Would be great to compare M60 and M61 side by side.


----------



## TriChrome

Just got mine a half hour ago. Beautiful beam, perfect construction (very clean, no circuit board showing it's head on the bottom or anything; perfect). I'm just not happy with the throw of it at all. It's reflector is even smaller than my NiteCore Extreme... 

Oh well. I just don't think I'll ever find a decent thrower in a P60 size package. I'll probably throw my M61 up for trade with my SST-50 and call it a day on LED P60 drop-ins (and wait for my Carly 1794 to arrive


----------



## JNewell

FWIW (data point), my order # was 4530 and it shipped domestically on the 17th.



fespo276 said:


> I, too, was lucky enough to score one of these. I ordered on Friday, of course, and mine shipped (according to the website) on Wednesday. I remember someone said in an earlier post that theirs shipped on Tuesday, so it looks like they went out on at least two different days, maybe more(?). My order number was 4532, and my Yahoo confirmation email time was 6:19pm EST, if these numbers are accurate and have any significance.
> 
> Hope this info helps.


----------



## JNewell

I ordered the M61 just 'cuz and wasn't thinking my various M60s needed any upgrade. It was kind of a yawn as far as I was concerned.



Those beamshots have certainly convinced me otherwise. I won't be putting the M60s on a shelf any time soon, but the M61 is going straight into my primary on-body EDC.



.


----------



## optodoofus

I received mine today. My M60 got evicted from the 9P and moved into its new home in an MD2. 

From a tint perspective, my M60 and M61 are quite comparable. I did not notice any significant increase in warmness with the M61. Of course, your mileage may vary.

The beam is undoubtedly beautiful. Smooth and completely artifact-free. It is one fine reflector.

The output of the M61 is significantly higher than my M60. It is hard to see looking at the beam because the M60 has a more intense hot spot while the M61 has a more diverse beam. But the increased output is obvious to me in the completely unscientific ceiling bounce test. To be fair, my M61 is driven at 9v while the M60 at only 6v, so that may be a contributing factor.

I find the M61 beam to be quite nice for inside use, but I actually prefer the M60 beam for outdoor applications. It would be great if there was some way to get the increased output and efficiency of the M61 with the beam profile of the M60. Of course, everyone will have their own opinion on this, so the only way to make everyone happy would be to offer both beam options. You know we'll all buy them both if Gene makes them.

Still, don't get me wrong: the M61 is pretty awesome, just what we have come to expect from Gene.





optodoofus


----------



## Kestrel

optodoofus said:


> It would be great if there was some way to get the increased output and efficiency of the M61 with the beam profile of the M61.


That's easy, the M61 then fits both of your requirements! :nana:


----------



## optodoofus

<errant post>


----------



## optodoofus

'Doh!

Now you understand what the "doofus" part of optodoofus is for.

I think I fixed it so it says M60 instead of M61 in the appropriate place

Optodoofus


----------



## Kestrel

LOL


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Got mine today along with the lens kit, it went right into my prized orange MD2. 

The lens has peel offs on both sides, so peel em before you install, or else you'll have a diffused beam. 

This M61 IMO, is definatley a step foward and not sideways. I am a big fan of the XPG's. I knew what I was getting as a owner of Quark XPG's, and McGizmo's Haiku XPG.

The beam is just beautiful, inside, outside, standing in the doorway, where ever! The low on the high low ring on the MD2 is nice and soft.

I had no trouble lighting my neighbors shed at 200 feet, and although faint, I could see the garage a few doors down the street at 350-400 feet. 

The M60 definatley out throws the M61, but doesnt "stomp" it. 

The M61 does however, "stomp" the M60 in the spill category. 

IMO, the M61 will be better for everynight tasks, with enough oomph to check out the noise in the woods.

What the M61 lacks in throw, and it is no throw slacker, it makes up in overall output. The beam is full and wholesome, from spot to spill. I shined it up into a big water oak in my yard, everything in the whole beam lit up, not just the hotspot and corona. 

The M61 is a keeper, after everyone gets theirs, I will for sure be getting more!!

The hype is real, its a home run!! :twothumbs


----------



## carrot

I knew it wasn't just me who realized the M61 was a real winner...


----------



## FroggyTaco

PoliceScannerMan said:


> This M61 IMO, is definatley a step foward and not sideways. I am a big fan of the XPG's. I knew what I was getting as a owner of Quark XPG's, and McGizmo's Haiku XPG.



I would be very interested in your opinion on the Haiku XPG vs the M61 beam/throw/flood/smoothness/etc....since you have both in hand.


Travis


----------



## BigHonu

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Got mine today along with the lens kit, it went right into my prized orange MD2.
> 
> The lens has peel offs on both sides, so peel em before you install, or else you'll have a diffused beam.
> 
> This M61 IMO, is definatley a step foward and not sideways. I am a big fan of the XPG's. I knew what I was getting as a owner of Quark XPG's, and McGizmo's Haiku XPG.
> 
> The beam is just beautiful, inside, outside, standing in the doorway, where ever! The low on the high low ring on the MD2 is nice and soft.
> 
> I had no trouble lighting my neighbors shed at 200 feet, and although faint, I could see the garage a few doors down the street at 350-400 feet.
> 
> The M60 definatley out throws the M61, but doesnt "stomp" it.
> 
> The M61 does however, "stomp" the M60 in the spill category.
> 
> IMO, the M61 will be better for everynight tasks, with enough oomph to check out the noise in the woods.
> 
> What the M61 lacks in throw, and it is no throw slacker, it makes up in overall output. The beam is full and wholesome, from spot to spill. I shined it up into a big water oak in my yard, everything in the whole beam lit up, not just the hotspot and corona.
> 
> The M61 is a keeper, after everyone gets theirs, I will for sure be getting more!!
> 
> The hype is real, its a home run!! :twothumbs




Punchy Flood! Punchy Flood! :twothumbs

Best description I've heard!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

BigHonu said:


> Punchy Flood! Punchy Flood! :twothumbs
> 
> Best description I've heard!



It does have that!!

In comparing with the Haiku XPG to the M61...

he reflctor on the Haiku XPG comes down all the way to the base of the emitter, where the M61 has a lil space between the emitter and reflector.

Thus, on a whitewall, the Haiku XPG has a smaller hot spot and overall beam. The M61's beam diameter is maybe 10-20% bigger?

Bottom line, they are both awesome lights, this is like comparing a BMW to a Mercedes really. 

I will compare outside tonight, may do beamshots too. :devil:


----------



## seale_navy

so does the M61 still leave a gap by the way?


----------



## Brasso

I'm not quite sure of the question, but there are no dark rings in the beam. No rings at all. It has a large hotspot with even transtion to flood. About as good as one could ask for.


----------



## smokelaw1

PoliceScannerMan said:


> The lens has peel offs on both sides, so peel em before you install, or else


 

OMG....are you serious. I am a smart guy. I mean, not a rocket scientist or anything, but I graduated in the top 10 from law school..I just mean I'm not a moron....

I e-mailed customer service about the very scratched up lens that came with my M61....I was all pissed....OOOOOOOOOPS. I guess I'll fix that when I get home.


----------



## RWT1405

A lawyer, go figure!

Sorry, couldn’t help myself! 

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## smokelaw1

I've got to admit I expected that! I'm generally pretty handy, play with tools and electronics and such. Just had a brain meltdown. Also only had about 2 mintues to play with the light, I ran home, opened the box, and was changing for a dinner...had a total of 10 minutes in the house!


----------



## RWT1405

LOL! No offense was intended, I just found it VERY funny! Just wish I had 1 to play with ( I mean use, LOL!)

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## smokelaw1

None taken...I found it funny, too. I was amazed at just HOW diffused the beam was. I look forward to trying it again tonight....without the tape!!!


----------



## Raymond3

"Peel Offs"! You got Peel Offs??!! I didn't get any Peel Offs with mine. Oh Man. 

Oh. Wait a minute. Maybe someone in customer service knows that I am not very smart and took mine off before sending it to me. 

OOOHHH, Wait a minute again. I don't like that option. I would rather be smart like you guys and have the Peel Offs.

Where can I sign up to get smart, and have the Peel Offs? Any suggestions would be appreciated. :candle:


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Just received a neutral-white XP-G from another make--Dereelight. It's impressively bright, but as I viewed it beside my Malkoff M60WF, my eyes reminded me why I prefer warm tints...even indoors. The Dereelight will likely be the last nonwarm drop-in for me. Go ahead and slug it out for the first M61s, fellas; I'll wait for the M61W.


----------



## bc5000

I thought he meant there are peel-off's on the M61. Now mines all gouged up from trying to find the edge of a non existing peel-off using a knife. :laughing:
Not really.


----------



## bc5000

Received my M61 today. Compared to my M60, the M61 has no rings and is very smooth with a warmer tint.

M60 on the left. M61 on the right. Approx. 3' from the wall.






M61 on left. Quark mini 123 on right (supposed to be cool white, but I think they sent me neutral). Hmm... now the M61 don't look so green.


----------



## damn_hammer

M61 is back in-stock on the Malkoff site, just snagged one.


----------



## jblackwood

bc5000 said:


> Received my M61 today. Compared to my M60, the M61 has no rings and is very smooth with a warmer tint.
> 
> M60 on the left. M61 on the right. Approx. 3' from the wall.



Sorry, that warmer tint looks green to me. I'll pass on that. :green: . . . for now, that is, especially since my M60's are all perfectly neutral (no blue or green to be had). 

And yes, I know that some people and cameras see tint differently.


----------



## carrot

That's just how the camera sees the tint as compared to the M60. All LEDs show some tint variation as compared to other LED's, and I'll just note that my M61 is perfectly "neutral" as is my M60.


----------



## etc

Interesting. Still thinking if I "need" one. The tint looks better.


----------



## damn_hammer

If mine is too green it will be going back. The XP-G in my Preon I is not green at all, on any level that I noticed so my expectation is set.


----------



## Dead_Nuts

damn_hammer said:


> M61 is back in-stock on the Malkoff site, just snagged one.



Are you serious? Once again, no notification to those of us who signed up for it. And of course they are sold out again. 

I can't spend my entire day re-checking a web site for availability. The notification service is a great idea, but since it doesn't work (I even double checked our mail server to make sure it didn't get filtered somehow) what good is it?


----------



## damn_hammer

I had notification set up for this on two different addresses. Neither received one. Just happened to be checking the Malkoff site at the time. Could not have been many. In the time it took to checkout, update this thread, and go back to check how many were left, they were all gone.

[edit]
They're back in stock, received notification this time. 10 Units. Run!


----------



## JNewell

Mine (shipped 2/17 to New England) arrived today. Thanks for the great review - I'm looking forward to giving it some runtime this weekend. :thumbsup:




PoliceScannerMan said:


> Got mine today along with the lens kit, it went right into my prized orange MD2.
> 
> The lens has peel offs on both sides, so peel em before you install, or else you'll have a diffused beam.
> 
> This M61 IMO, is definatley a step foward and not sideways. I am a big fan of the XPG's. I knew what I was getting as a owner of Quark XPG's, and McGizmo's Haiku XPG.
> 
> The beam is just beautiful, inside, outside, standing in the doorway, where ever! The low on the high low ring on the MD2 is nice and soft.
> 
> I had no trouble lighting my neighbors shed at 200 feet, and although faint, I could see the garage a few doors down the street at 350-400 feet.
> 
> The M60 definatley out throws the M61, but doesnt "stomp" it.
> 
> The M61 does however, "stomp" the M60 in the spill category.
> 
> IMO, the M61 will be better for everynight tasks, with enough oomph to check out the noise in the woods.
> 
> What the M61 lacks in throw, and it is no throw slacker, it makes up in overall output. The beam is full and wholesome, from spot to spill. I shined it up into a big water oak in my yard, everything in the whole beam lit up, not just the hotspot and corona.
> 
> The M61 is a keeper, after everyone gets theirs, I will for sure be getting more!!
> 
> The hype is real, its a home run!! :twothumbs


----------



## JNewell

bc5000 said:


> I thought he meant there are peel-off's on the M61. Now mines all gouged up from trying to find the edge of a non existing peel-off using a knife. :laughing:
> Not really.



Just for clarity, I think he means peel-offs on the separate lens assembly, not on the M61 itself, so if you only ordered an M61, there's nothing to peel off (?).


----------



## JNewell

- deleted -


----------



## Policetacteam

Just got the email notification that the M61 was back in stock. Flipped over to Gene's site within 10 seconds to find they are sold out again! How is this possible! How are the drop-in gods this cruel!?! Wow!!! Back to waiting!


----------



## pilote

round 2 of the malkoff m61 came and went even faster then the first round...it sold out just after i put it in the cart!...oh well...

ok, let the complaining begin....


----------



## Alberta-Blue

DAMN!!! That was a fast sell out!! Glad mine already shipped out of the first load !!!


----------



## JNewell

I think the answer is: automated inventory. Even a couple of units generates in-stock status, but obviously they go in a flash (pardon the pun). 

Maybe Gene should put the whole project into stealth mode, make us wait until he's got several hundred in stock, and then release the inventory???  Nah, better to be up and down in real time, I think. I have to say, having spoken with him several times and knowing what a gentleman he is, it pains me to read a lot of these posts.


----------



## Ggmesquita

pilote said:


> round 2 of the malkoff m61 came and went even faster then the first round...it sold out just after i put it in the cart!...



Same thing here! It desapeared while I was at the Paypal website. I was just 1 click away.


----------



## SavageBaer

I missed the first round, but I snagged one this time! I was surprised how fast the second batch came out, I was expecting to be waiting another couple weeks. Great work Gene!!


----------



## Sector7

:mecry:


----------



## funkymonkey1111

missed out, too. pretty frustrating.


----------



## BigHonu

Ggmesquita said:


> Same thing here! It desapeared while I was at the Paypal website. I was just 1 click away.



Same here! Clicked the CONTINUE button then  all gone! Just need to keep on trying!


----------



## funkymonkey1111

don't know gene, but have never heard a bad word about him, but it seems pretty crappy that you could get one in your shopping cart and have it swiped from you while you're going through the paypal process


----------



## Ggmesquita

Yeah, this, among many other things, need to be corrected / updated at Gene`s website. 
This could be corrected by simply implementing a reservation ticket feature at the checkout process, just like almost EVERY online store I know.


----------



## BigHonu

It is not like this is the last batch! While frustrating, and somewhat inconvinient there will be more to come along. I'm sure he is doing the best he can.


----------



## FrankW438

Just got mine today, also. Indoors it is definitely easy to see it is brighter than my M60. I think it's a good compromise between flood and throw, but I won't judge for sure until I go back to work Monday. As much as I like to "play" with my flashlights, my preferences are dictated by my duty requirements.

On a white wall, my M60 seems a little purplish with a slight donut-hole. My M61 seems a little greenish with a nice even hot spot. However, using them in a practical manner (checking a car, scanning a backyard, searching a dark room, etc) I don't notice those differences. The only differences I notice in practical settings are the brightness of the M61 and the throw of the M60. Also, the OP reflector gives a TON more spill. In fact, there is so much more spill than I can clearly see the shadow of the scallops on the head of my 6PD. 

I know this sounds silly, but I can't wait to get back to work Monday so I can see how well my M61 works in "real life," so to speak...

-- Frank

EDIT: *** WOO-HOOO! POST NUMBER 100 **


----------



## nanotech17

kyhunter1 said:


> Got my M61 today! Here are a couple of ceiling bounce comparison shots between my M61 and Quark 123^2. Im not a pro on beamshots, so these are the best I can offer till I learn more about my camera.
> 
> M61 in my 6p with two primaries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eye candy!




nice photos man,appreciate your effort.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

OK, snuck out while the wife was putting the baby to bed. :naughty:

Beamshots!!!!

~~~~~Haiku XPG vs. M61~~~~

I'm on my backup computer, I usually edit and type which light is being used on the pics, but this is basic photo import, no fancy typing.... :sick2:

OK, onto the pics!!!! Same exposure, manual mode for each shot, lights on max running 1 x Li Ion.

M61




_________________________________________________________

Haiku XPG




__________________________________________________________

M61




___________________________________________________________

Haiku XPG





Looks like the MD2 is waterproof. :devil:


----------



## JNewell

Incredible. Just got home. Put the M61 in a 6Z, and ran A-B-C against a C2/M60 and a C2/M60F.

M61 has a beam as broad and smooth as M60F.

M61 has a beam as bright in the center as M60.

Did not compare throw (indoors).

Simply amazing.


----------



## defloyd77

PoliceScannerMan said:


> ~~~~~Haiku XPG vs. M61~~~~



Now THAT is what I was waiting for! I've greatly admired the beam of the XP-G Haiku seeing those shots gives me even more admiration for McGizmo's reflectors. The Haiku's beam dropped my jaw, the M61's dislocated it. The tint of your M61 really makes that tree very vibrant too.

Thanks for the shots!


----------



## bc5000

It's very foggy here tonight. I thought it might be a good time to actually see the beam. 

They would only reach out maybe 20-30 yds across the field.

What I think is cool about the M61 is that it has that distinct circle around the outside edge of the spill, as you can see in the pic. Where as the M60 doesn't really have one, it just gradually fades.

M60 Surefire 6P





M61 Surefire G2


----------



## dwminer

Boy these sell out fast, but I'll keep trying.


----------



## FrankW438

Great pics, bc5000! Not only can you see how much more spill there is, but you get a great look at the shape of beam in the fog. I really prefer throw over flood, but some lights have too much throw and too tight of a hot spot to be useful. I thought the M60 was great for my purposes, but I am beginning to think that the M61 strikes the perfect balance between throw and flood. 

Great work, Gene!

-- Frank


----------



## Kestrel

FrankW438 said:


> I thought the M60 was great for my purposes, but I am beginning to think that the M61 strikes the perfect balance between throw and flood.


+1, Having only used the M60 and thinking the same thing, after looking at these beamshots I think that you're on to something here. :thumbsup:


----------



## kyhunter1

Here are some more ceiling bounce comparisons with some of my favorite lights. It's kind of hard for me to get good outdoor pics here because of a couple of street lights close by, so these will have to do for tonight. White balance is kept the same for these pics, so differences in tints should show up. Enjoy. 

M60 left M61 right








Modoo Triple R2 XPE WG







Quark R2






M61






M60


----------



## Woods Walker

Thanks for the photos everyone. I will get the M61 when the (L) comes out as prefer runtimes to lumens. Just ordered a M60LL Q5 as these are on sale and couldn't pass the deal up.


----------



## bullfrog

Woods Walker said:


> Thanks for the photos everyone. I will get the M61 when the (L) comes out as prefer runtimes to lumens.



+1



Woods Walker said:


> Just ordered a M60LL Q5 as these are on sale and couldn't pass the deal up.



+1

:twothumbs:twothumbs:twothumbs

My thoughts/actions exactly - didnt have to really type a thing - thanks! :thumbsup:


----------



## BigHonu

Awesome shots guys! 

PSM,

What is the M61 like with the 2 stage ring? Must be somewhere between the low and medium setting on the Haiku?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

BigHonu said:


> Awesome shots guys!
> 
> PSM,
> 
> What is the M61 like with the 2 stage ring? Must be somewhere between the low and medium setting on the Haiku?



Its like the low. 

I just wanted to add, my beamshots look almost identical, because the lights are that similar!!! :twothumbs

I guess you can just about say the Haiku XPG is like a pocket M61. :naughty:

Has anyone tried theirs in a Valiant Concepts head yet?


----------



## kyhunter1

I think the VME heads have the same opening as the MD2 heads, so everything should be the same with the beams. If Gene ever comes out with a M31, I may give in and build a awesome single cell twisty keychain light. I tried my M61 with a single new primary, and the brightness was much lower than with two which tells me it was in direct drive. A M31 that can run in regulation for a good period of time on a single primary and rechargeables will definitely have a strong following around here. 



=PoliceScannerMan;3286598]Its like the low. 

I just wanted to add, my beamshots look almost identical, because the lights are that similar!!! :twothumbs

I guess you can just about say the Haiku XPG is like a pocket M61. :naughty:

Has anyone tried theirs in a Valiant Concepts head yet? [/QUOTE]


----------



## JNewell

Kestrel said:


> +1, Having only used the M60 and thinking the same thing, after looking at these beamshots I think that you're on to something here. :thumbsup:



I did a very quick, informal comparison outside last night. The M61 does not in fact have the throw of the M60 at its center. However, in every other way it is effectively a combination of an M60 and an M60F, which makes it a really ideal drop-in.


----------



## FrankW438

JNewell said:


> I did a very quick, informal comparison outside last night. The M61 does not in fact have the throw of the M60 at its center. However, in every other way it is effectively a combination of an M60 and an M60F, which makes it a really ideal drop-in.



I agree. My standard for measuring throw is illuminating a stop sign two blocks away from my house. The M61 could light it up nicely, but not quite as brightly as the M60. I rarely need to light up anything farther away than one city block at the most. The added illumination at short to mid-range is great. But my needs are not the same as everyone else's needs.

-- Frank


----------



## kyhunter1

+1 



JNewell said:


> ....However, in every other way it is effectively a combination of an M60 and an M60F, which makes it a really ideal drop-in.


----------



## Csp203

Is it possible that dealers have the M61 in stock. I followed a link at malkoff.com to a dealer and found this.

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/malkoffdevicesmd-2flashlightincludesbulbassembly.aspx


----------



## kyhunter1

That is a super deal, a M61 with lens + a HA3 MD2 for $85.00. Ounce everyone finds out about this, out of stock in 3, 2, 1............ 



Csp203 said:


> Is it possible that dealers have the M61 in stock. I followed a link at malkoff.com to a dealer and found this.


----------



## BigHonu

That can't be right can it? M61 is already $59, lens kit is $4, which would make the body just $22?


----------



## kyhunter1

Sounds fishy to me too, but the price listed is $84.99. If it is legit, then it is the deal of the year for 2010. 



BigHonu said:


> That can't be right can it? M61 is already $59, lens kit is $4, which would make the body just $22?


----------



## dwminer

BigHonu said:


> That can't be right can it? M61 is already $59, lens kit is $4, which would make the body just $22?


 

Always read the fine print:

*Domestic Shipping:* While we try to keep everything in stock, please allow at least two weeks for delivery of your order. If we see it will take longer, or if the product is out of stock, we will contact you accordingly.


----------



## k9hutch

Looked like 8.50 shipping for me


----------



## 737mech

Csp203 said:


> Is it possible that dealers have the M61 in stock. I followed a link at malkoff.com to a dealer and found this.
> 
> http://www.onesourcetactical.com/malkoffdevicesmd-2flashlightincludesbulbassembly.aspx


 

I ordered one 2 days ago from them and still have not heard anything about being out of stock. Keeping my fingers crossed!


----------



## etc

PoliceScannerMan said:


> ~~~~~Haiku XPG vs. M61~~~~
> 
> 
> OK, onto the pics!!!! Same exposure, manual mode for each shot, lights on max running 1 x Li Ion.



Thanks for the pics. 
Let's keep in mind that we are not getting full lumens on 1x Li-Ion cell. With M60, there was about a 40-50 lumen difference between 1x18650 and 2x123.


----------



## etc

kyhunter1 said:


> Here are some more ceiling bounce comparisons with some of my favorite lights. It's kind of hard for me to get good outdoor pics here because of a couple of street lights close by, so these will have to do for tonight. White balance is kept the same for these pics, so differences in tints should show up. Enjoy.
> 
> M60 left M61 right



I cannot perceive huge lumens increase in M61, obviously, but the tint is much nicer than M60.
Is this a true 300 lumen lite?

Question, does the reflector make it less efficient than the optic of M60?

Ultimately more lumens + nicer tint + slightly more useful combo of flood/throw might make it worthwhile.


----------



## BigHonu

etc said:


> Thanks for the pics.
> Let's keep in mind that we are not getting full lumens on 1x Li-Ion cell. With M60, there was about a 40-50 lumen difference between 1x18650 and 2x123.



I think the forward voltage of the XP-G is lower so the difference may not be as big...or does that relate more to longer runtime?


----------



## defloyd77

etc said:


> Question, does the reflector make it less efficient than the optic of M60?



The reflector itself I'm sure is less efficient than the optic, but the XP-G more than makes up for that in overall efficiency.


----------



## AR_Shorty

737mech said:


> I ordered one 2 days ago from them and still have not heard anything about being out of stock. Keeping my fingers crossed!


 

Tagged for updates before I order!


----------



## kyhunter1

The lower input voltage of 3.4v and the lower vf of the xpg will result in flat regulation for a while on a single 18650 until the voltage in the cell drops below 3.4v. The more efficient xpg will also give more runtime. 



BigHonu said:


> I think the forward voltage of the XP-G is lower so the difference may not be as big...or does that relate more to longer runtime?


----------



## etc

That is certainly good to know.


----------



## dwminer

AR_Shorty said:


> Tagged for updates before I order!


 Don't hold your breath. They are out of stock, they said that more are do in this week. You're welcome to your thoughts on that one. 
Dave


----------



## BigHonu

Does anyone have any height and width measurements of the lens for the M61? Would a 6P lens work? Thanks!


----------



## carrot

A 6P lens will be too big.


----------



## etc

I am thinking I will keep my M60L and M60LL and get a (special-order) M61 designed to run on 5V-12V, so I can use it with either 2x18650 or 4x123 for awesome runtime. 

Other reason is that for more throw, I can use M60L but this is just slightly more floody. What's the degree of the throw, it's obviously more than 8 degrees of M60, but not that much more. I am guessing 10-12 degrees?


----------



## DimmerD

seale_navy said:


> so does the M61 still leave a gap by the way?



Can anyone answer this?


----------



## carrot

DimmerD said:


> Can anyone answer this?


Only very slightly. The gap is necessary to ensure proper electrical contact in all hosts, due to not using an outer spring like the P60 lamps. The lack of an outer spring is necessary for better thermal conductivity.


----------



## DimmerD

Thanks carrot!


----------



## 737mech

For those that are interested. I just got an email from One Source Tactical letting me know that the MD2/M61 lights are in stock as of yesterday and mine is shipping out today. Get em' while you can!:rock:


----------



## funkymonkey1111

737mech said:


> For those that are interested. I just got an email from One Source Tactical letting me know that the MD2/M61 lights are in stock as of yesterday and mine is shipping out today. Get em' while you can!:rock:


 

this still seems to be too good to be true


----------



## msap

funkymonkey1111 said:


> this still seems to be too good to be true


 
Mine also! Just got off the phone with them. Should be here this week hopefully. I couldn't help but take a chance on this one...lovin my M61 in my SF M2!


----------



## Chris H

Is this for real? M61 in a malkoff flashlight from One source tactical? Because if so, I'll take one just to get my hands on an M61 for my 6P!


----------



## msap

Chris H said:


> Is this for real? M61 in a malkoff flashlight from One source tactical? Because if so, I'll take one just to get my hands on an M61 for my 6P!


 
They are on Malkoff's site as a dealer sooo....I'm hoping they're good to go. We shall see upon delivery.


----------



## jblackwood

etc said:


> Thanks for the pics.
> Let's keep in mind that we are not getting full lumens on 1x Li-Ion cell. With M60, there was about a 40-50 lumen difference between 1x18650 and 2x123.



Yeah, isn't that what the M30 is for? The M30 is rated the same as the M60 . . . any talk of an M31?


----------



## Kestrel

jblackwood said:


> Yeah, isn't that what the M30 is for? The M30 is rated the same as the M60 . . . any talk of an M31?


Yes. Earlier in this thread.

Also, earlier in this thread it is stated that the M61 will run at nominal rated output on a single LiIon. That's why the posted voltage for the M61 goes down to 3.4v - this can be read on the Malkoff website.

Which is why the M61 is replacing (among other things), the M30. Which is stated earlier in this thread, IIRC.
Edit: probably incorrect, I was thinking of carrot's post (a perfectly valid hypothesis) from another thread (which I quote below) - his post was appropriate and perfectly fine until I gave too much thought to it out of context. My apologies.

The great thing about having this master M61 thread is that it contains pretty much all CPF knowledge on the M61, all there for the reading. If people make up 'facts' about the M61 and post them, it admittedly does sow some confusion.
Edit: yes ok sorry. I was unusually grumpy and had another topic in mind from a few posts back.


----------



## jblackwood

Sorry about that, guys. Should have used the "thread search" tool. :tsk:


----------



## Chris H

msap said:


> They are on Malkoff's site as a dealer sooo....I'm hoping they're good to go. We shall see upon delivery.



Cheers, Certainly shall!

Here in the UK 

M61 + MD-2 + free shipping (well it certainly didn't charge me)= 
$85 from One Source Tactical

M61 + $30 shipping (based on my order last year)= 
$89 from Malkoff

So essentially I have just ordered an M61 way before I thought I would get hold of one and I get a free MD-2 body thrown in for my original not used Surefire LED drop in. BARGAIN

Cheers
Chris


----------



## ginaz

Kestrel said:


> If people make up 'facts' about the M61 and post them, it admittedly does sow some confusion.



the M61 has longer run-time than Chuck Norris
the M61 runs so cool, it can chill a beer
the M61 has so much spill, it raised the sea level by 1/4"


----------



## Owen

Kestrel said:


> He is also working on some new XPG-specific driver designs for both the M60 and M30, which was of great interest to me.





Kestrel said:


> My guess is that the M61 should now run very well on a 3.7v LiIon (G. Malkoff has stated via e-mail correspondence late last year that we should expect the M60 replacement to be an even better match to a single LiIon than the M60 was due to the slightly lower Vf of the XP-G). This pretty much takes it to M30 territory IMO, somewhat replacing the requirement for an M31.
> .................
> Anyway, just the combination of idle speculation by me as well as wishful thinking. FWIW... :tinfoil:





Kestrel said:


> Which is why the M61 is replacing (among other things), the M30. Which is stated earlier in this thread, IIRC.
> 
> The great thing about having this master M61 thread is that it contains pretty much all CPF knowledge on the M61, all there for the reading. If people make up 'facts' about the M61 and post them, it admittedly does sow some confusion.


It certainly does...


----------



## DM51

Kestrel said:


> The great thing about having this master M61 thread is that it contains pretty much all CPF knowledge on the M61, all there for the reading.


Kestrel, this is very helpful - thank you  !
If you see other threads or posts that would be better placed in this thread, please let me or another member of staff know and we'll move them here.


----------



## Ggmesquita

OK, just off the phone with One Source Tactical and guess what? It is (or at least was) the real deal! They told me it really comes with the M61! BUT...... they are out of stock for now and the next shipment will come in not less than 3 to 4 weeks! :duh2: AND they said it will take that long because "the manufacturer is moving their facilities" Does anyone know anything about that?


----------



## Kestrel

jblackwood said:


> Sorry about that, guys. Should have used the "thread search" tool.


Actually, I'd like to apologize for my earlier post - I knew I could make a better case (i.e. a sounder argument) than what I wrote, but was too grumpy to take the time to do so - I had a slightly different topic in mind from a few posts back. I have subsequently edited my post. Sorry. 



ginaz said:


> the M61 has longer run-time than Chuck Norris
> the M61 runs so cool, it can chill a beer
> the M61 has so much spill, it raised the sea level by 1/4"


LOL, good one. 



Owen said:


> It certainly does...


Touche, Owen. 
I was thinking of this short thread on the "M31" in addition to the current one (i.e. this M61 thread), with the relevant text quoted below:


jaundice said:


> Looking at the input voltages for the new Malkoff M61, it appears that it's regulated from 3.4-9.0v. The old M30 appeared to drop out of regulation below 3.3v. Does the new M61 remove the need for an M31, since it stays in regulation at so low a voltage? Will Malkoff come out with a 1.0-5.5v model of the M61?





carrot said:


> *It's possible that the M61 will replace the M60, M60F, and the M30 and M30F.* This is thanks to the new reflector which offers an excellent balance and the more efficient XP-G LED. The official word, however, would have to come from Gene Malkoff...


 (emphasis added)

I have the highest regard for carrot's posts and had this speculation above in mind when I posted yesterday evening. His post (a valid hypothesis IMO) made a lot of sense to me at the time, so I think I took it to heart excessively. 
(and I really really want an *M21* instead of an M31...)



DM51 said:


> Kestrel, this is very helpful - thank you  !
> If you see other threads or posts that would be better placed in this thread, please let me or another member of staff know and we'll move them here.


Thanks but I don't deserve any kudos here - it's been great having virtually all the M61 info posted in this thread, due to both the efforts of the mods and the inclination of all of these folks to post in this thread rather than making seprarate threads.


Anyway, my apologies for a rather poor post on my part yesterday, I could have stated my thoughts better but was unusually grumpy yesterday evening. I should have taken more time to write a better post, sorry.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*Re: The Malkoff M61! (3.4V vs. 3V)*



kyhunter1 said:


> The lower input voltage of 3.4v and the lower vf of the xpg will result in flat regulation for a while on a single 18650 until the voltage in the cell drops below 3.4v. The more efficient xpg will also give more runtime.



What a pity that 3.4V puts the M61 just out of reach of two NiZn AA cells. The M30 series-dropins are regulated at 3.0V+, perfect for a pair of nickel-zincs. I hope this means that we can look forward to an M31.


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: The Malkoff M61! (3.4V vs. 3V)*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> What a pity that 3.4V puts the M61 just out of reach of two NiZn AA cells. The M30 series-dropins are regulated at 3.0V+, perfect for a pair of nickel-zincs. I hope this means that we can look forward to an M31.


Some M30 data from another thread:


MrGman said:


> M30 on a regulated power supply at various voltages and the current draw there of.
> 1.5V 0.84A 1.26W
> 2.0V 0.88A 1.76W
> 3.0V 0.97A 2.91W
> 3.2V 1.00A 3.20W
> 3.6V 1.10A 3.96W
> 4.0V 1.29A 5.16W
> 4.2V 1.42A 5.96W
> 4.5V 1.60A 7.20W
> 5.0V 1.89A 9.45W


So from what I see here, the M30 would operate at an initial wattage of *~3W* on 2x NiZn compared to *~4W* on 1x LiIon (and *~2.3W* on 2x NiMH)

While the M30 is considered to be regulated at a range of relatively low voltages, it appears to be in a rather odd way - I for one am hoping to get a driver in a new low-voltage Malkoff drop-in which performs better than the M30 at the lower voltages that you anticipate using. (For starters - I'd love a Malkoff XP-G drop-in that performs *at maximum wattage from ~2.5v (2x NiMH, 1x CR123) all the way up to ~4v*.)


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: The Malkoff M61! (3.4V vs. 3V)*

Gene, please give us a low voltage M31! 



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> What a pity that 3.4V puts the M61 just out of reach of two NiZn AA cells. The M30 series-dropins are regulated at 3.0V+, perfect for a pair of nickel-zincs. I hope this means that we can look forward to an M31.


 
+1 



Kestrel said:


> Some M30 data from another thread:
> 
> 
> So from what I see here, the M30 would operate at an initial wattage of *~3W* on 2x NiZn compared to *~4W* on 1x LiIon (and *~2.3W* on 2x NiMH)
> 
> While the M30 is considered to be regulated at a range of relatively low voltages, it appears to be in a rather odd way - I for one am hoping to get a driver in a new low-voltage Malkoff drop-in which performs better than the M30 at the lower voltages that you anticipate using. (For starters - I'd love a Malkoff XP-G drop-in that performs *at maximum wattage from ~2.5v (2x NiMH, 1x CR123) all the way up to ~4v*.)


----------



## ElectronGuru

Ggmesquita said:


> they are out of stock for now and the next shipment will come in not less than 3 to 4 weeks! :duh2: AND they said it will take that long because "the manufacturer is moving their facilities" Does anyone know anything about that?



Malkoff essentially has two production facilities, his factory and himself. He can build them sooner, but not as many. The few shipping now are essentially advanced units, from his own bench, made available only on his website. The factory can build more units but takes longer to get up to speed. Once that happens, bulk shipments (including those to dealers) will begin. I can only hope that 'moving' means product changes and not building changes. Changing both at the same time would be a major undertaking.

What we are experiencing now is very much like it was, before the factory came on line the first time. And for the same reasons.


----------



## AR_Shorty

737mech said:


> For those that are interested. I just got an email from One Source Tactical letting me know that the MD2/M61 lights are in stock as of yesterday and mine is shipping out today. Get em' while you can!:rock:


 

No longer listed on their website.


----------



## jblackwood

Don't worry about it, Kestrel. When I'm wrong I'm wrong . . . it happens so infrequently that I don't have to think too hard to remember those times!! 
Just kidding, of course. 

Ever since I got into Li-ions, I've tried to be mindful of the voltage requirements in order to get the most out of runtime and regulation, but mostly so the light wouldn't go !

We are, after all, here to help each other and I'd hate to be one of the folks who are mucking up the threads with inane babble and not too much to add. 
:grouphug:

In that spirit, I just got an email from One Source Tactical telling me that when they tried to reorder M61's, they were told that it would be another 12 WEEKS before they'd get another shipment.  So much for me getting one in this first wave (tint be damned).  You snooze, you lose. I didn't order mine until last night from One Source, though, so take that for what it's worth. 

This was me last night . . . :tired:, then I decided to get the M61, which led to , but still I was . Getting the email was not unexpected, but still, you can't blame a guy for being a little :scowl:, or at least :ironic: . . . still, this is all extremely fun and lovecpf. 

A big ole :thumbsup: to Gene for designing some real favorites for us (I'd thank others too, but this thread is about Gene).


----------



## RWT1405

Got my M61's in today! I'm happy as a pig in...... well, you know! LOL

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## carrot

RWT1405 said:


> Got my M61's in today! I'm happy as a pig in...... well, you know! LOL
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV


A pig... in bacon? How delicious! :lolsign:


----------



## etc

*Re: The Malkoff M61! (3.4V vs. 3V)*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> What a pity that 3.4V puts the M61 just out of reach of two NiZn AA cells. The M30 series-dropins are regulated at 3.0V+, perfect for a pair of nickel-zincs. I hope this means that we can look forward to an M31.



If there is ever a M61L or M61LL, then you can use AA cells.


----------



## jblackwood

carrot said:


> A pig... in bacon? How delicious! :lolsign:



Mmmmmmm, pig in a bacon . . . . arghrgrgrghrgrhgrhgrhg. :sick2:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

jblackwood said:


> Mmmmmmm, pig in a bacon . . . . arghrgrgrghrgrhgrhgrhg. :sick2:



Reminds me of chilli cheese BBQ bacon Pork melts I once made. 

I think whoever said the M61 is like a morph of regular (M60) and flood (M60F) was spot on.

I just went outside with all three, M30W, M30WF, and the M61. I was shining all three up close and far and mid range. The M61 is the best of both worlds!!! :twothumbs

Now dont get me wrong, if your doing close work, the flood is the way to go. And if you need to put a beam out there the regular is the way to go. But for a jack of all trades, the M61 is a homerun. IMO, the M30/60 out throws, but not by a whole lot. And conversely, the Flood out floods, but again, not by a whole lot! :thinking:

I cant wait, I have two MD2 clips (Along w the M60LL that was on sale for $39) showing up tomorrow. Never EDCed a MD2, but I'm gonna start!!!


----------



## 5Sport

I orderd mine on friday, I received an E-mail on monday saying that it was shipped, and I received it today. Nice beam, nice bulid, and brighter than the P60L from Surefire.

Nice Job Cathy and Gene.

So far so good. As long as this holds up, I will be a repeat customer. This is my first purchase from them.


----------



## FroggyTaco

Kestrel said:


> I have the highest regard for carrot's posts and had this speculation above in mind when I posted yesterday evening. His post (a valid hypothesis IMO) made a lot of sense to me at the time, so I think I took it to heart excessively.
> (and I really really want an *M21* instead of an M31...)



All I feel comfortable saying here is don't give up hope. Nothing has been decided, but let Gene get up to speed on M61 production so he has time to "tinker".......

Travis

p.s.- Buy a flood now if you are on the fence about owning one.


----------



## damn_hammer

damn_hammer said:


> If mine is too green it will be going back. The XP-G in my Preon I is not green at all, on any level that I noticed so my expectation is set.



M61 arrived yesterday. Dropped into a Z44 bezel on an orange G2 body/tail. Very bright, and pure white to my eyes. Nice.


----------



## Bimmerboy

The M61 sounds very good and all, but what I'm REEEEEALLY hoping for is an M-60 MC-E replacement!

The thing that's held me back from getting the M60 MC-E is that, while I do want a flood type drop-in, I believe it would be just slightly too floody for me. Being that the doughnut hole problem would be eliminated if a single die emitter were used, I wonder if an optic (or even a reflector) could be found that provides just a little more punch to the throw, while still lighting up a very wide area. Not wishing it to be too different, just a tad. If that's not possible, I'd even go for the same beam angle as the M60 MC-E if the replacement is brighter.

Gene, would you happen to be planning something along the lines of a regulated (say, 2.5A - 3A) SST-50 that can run on 2 X Li-ion?


----------



## mpkav

Ive been checking their website 20 times a day, it's killing me already!!!!! Wish they had a pre-order.


----------



## zygibajt

Halo,

I have a question. Someone above mentioned that M61 comparing to M60 was a little more green.

I'm using M60 and M60W in my lights. Lately I ordered M30 for my friend (actually I got the last one available as it was the time when they were all gone) and to my suprise when I compared the M30 run off 18650 with M60 run off two 18500 side by side they both performed similar but while the M60 was white (well cool white like the leds are) the M30 was actually way more green rather than white.

The M30 is in my friend's flashlight and he doesn't even know I made the comparisions, he is happy as this is his only light he uses but I personaly did not like that green tint.

The question is what was it?? I mean is it on purpose and every M30 was like this or they differ from one to another or maybe another M60 would also be like that?? The M60 was purchased some 3-4 months ealier than M30.

Well if M61 is the same green what I even saw in the picture comparisions somewhere above I'm not sure I like it.

Any one any input on this greeny output??

Thanks.


----------



## carrot

The green is random and a causality of the "Luxeon lottery." No single light is on purpose green, blue, or purple, and If I may say so myself, none of my four Malkoff drop-ins exhibit any tint that appears without comparison to other lights.


----------



## artdeg

Will the M61 drop in without any modifications in a Surefire Centurion C2?
Thanks.


----------



## TriChrome

artdeg said:


> Will the M61 drop in without any modifications in a Surefire Centurion C2?
> Thanks.


It should, dropped into my Surefire C2 perfectly. It should fit in any P60/D26 size host without problems.


----------



## Vesper

I've searched on this several times but can't find suitable info... 

Does anyone have any hard data on Malkoff's High/Low Bezel Switch - I believe it's a 75 ohm resistor and his site states it gives you 10-20 lumens, though the lumens figure is of course subjective to the drop-in. I'm wondering about MD2 runtime strictly on low for the M61 w/ 2 primaries. Thanks.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic

artdeg said:


> Will the M61 drop in without any modifications in a Surefire Centurion C2?
> Thanks.


Yes, it was made for SureFire C series and others.


----------



## jasong911

I have had the M-61 around for about a week, and I have hunted the wiley white wall, in many shades, looking for a reason not to like this drop-in. Outside also, looking deep into the inky blackness made suddenly visible farther than my other drop-ins. Compared with the new E2d (200 lumen), the M-61 beam (in a 6P host on primaries) is noticeably better! I have been a little upset (I'm looking at you, Fenix) about some of my recent purchases (this is my first Malkoff) due to green tint madness, and it seems that I have gotten lucky, finally, in the bin lottery or that Gene has a fine product. I'm voting for Fine Product. Very satisfied.


----------



## Owen

Vesper said:


> Does anyone have any hard data on Malkoff's High/Low Bezel Switch - I believe it's a 75 ohm resistor and his site states it gives you 10-20 lumens, though the lumens figure is of course subjective to the drop-in.


Subjective to the _battery voltage_.


----------



## Woods Walker

Any news when Gene is going to make a M61L cuz I want one for my plastic G2Z.


----------



## jabe1

Does anyone have an M61, and another XP-G drop-in (Dereelight maybe) to post some comparison beamshots?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

I have 6 XPG lights, the M61 has the best tint of them all.


----------



## jabe1

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I have 6 XPG lights, the M61 has the best tint of them all.


 I'm wondering about throw, beam quality ( I don't doubt the Malkoff), and output.Specifically p60 style drop-ins. I have 2 XP-Gs, and their tints are slightly different, although niether is green, thankfully.


----------



## RWT1405

mmmmmmmmmm bacon! LOL


----------



## Bimmerboy

RWT1405 said:


> mmmmmmmmmm bacon! LOL


LOL!

You know that's gonna' confuse the hell out of anyone who hasn't read back to post 633. :thumbsup:

lovecpf


----------



## carrot

Shh Bimmerboy, you'll give it away!


----------



## zygibajt

jasong911 said:


> I have had the M-61 around for about a week, and I have hunted the wiley white wall, in many shades, looking for a reason not to like this drop-in. Outside also, looking deep into the inky blackness made suddenly visible farther than my other drop-ins. Compared with the new E2d (200 lumen), the M-61 beam (in a 6P host on primaries) is noticeably better! I have been a little upset (I'm looking at you, Fenix) about some of my recent purchases (this is my first Malkoff) due to green tint madness, and it seems that I have gotten lucky, finally, in the bin lottery or that Gene has a fine product. I'm voting for Fine Product. Very satisfied.



I had no idea there is such thing like green tint madness and bin lottery.

But I had this Malkoff M30 in my hands next to my M60 and the M30 was way greener in tint. Actually I would hate to get that green output. So it seems there is no pre selction of tint even in Malkoff modules and you never know what you get. Maybe it has changed when it comes to M61 but in the beamshot pictures few pages earlier I have seen that same green (maybe not to that degree as I had in M30 but still noticable) in M61 next to M60 I don't know what to think.

I have another M60 prepaid waiting for me to ship since 4 weeks and I will see how this one performes.

And by the way even if there is no preselection in Malkoff modules I don't complain as I do have quite an expirence in production and running own business and I would not expect to have preselection in $60 modules. I wouldn't be supriced if preselected modules would cost twice as much.


----------



## mpkav

Had to be done!!!!:nana:
BACON EXPLOSION!!!!!

http://www.bbqaddicts.com/blog/recipes/bacon-explosion/

If I had my M61 I probably wouldn't be thinking about bacon


----------



## MrGman

On a separate note, Gene will be out of touch for a while. Since his new M61 is one of the hottest topics going I though I would post this here for all you guys wanting to know when you will be getting yours. He had his appendix removed. So if anyone has been sending emails wanting updates on an upcoming delivery, he won't be able to respond for a few days. 

His wife Cathy asked me to post this. 

_Hi Gary,

I was wondering if you could let the people on CPF know that we will be out of touch for a few days. Gene had to have his appendix removed. He'll be in the hospital until Saturday or Sunday. 

Thanks,
Cathy_ 

I pray for a speedy recovery, Gary. 

If I violated a rule by posting a message which is not an actual "email" then the moderators can feel free to remove the inserted message. 

Sorry to hijack the thread for this notice.


----------



## dwminer

Hey Gene speedy recovery from all us folks on CPF forum. As a side note I just received my Malkoff MD2 from One Source Tactical, complete with with batteries. Neat flashlight.


----------



## BigHonu

Best wishes to Gene for a speedy recovery!


I was able to land a M61 from another member and I am glad that the beam profile is very similar to my Haiku XP-G. Very versatile in close to medium range uses. 
As someone else pointed out, you don't get that tunnel vision effect when using this light. No 'follow the bouncing ball' effect either. Just good illumination from beam edge to beam edge. The XP-G in Don's reflector is the most useful beam profile I have seen since joining this board.

Output on high with primaries is very bright. If my Haiku comes in around 185 lumens, then I would GUESS that the M61 is pushing Gene's advertised 260ish at the very least. Ceiling bounce shows me that the M61 is easily the brighter of the two lights. I cannot discern a difference in output with an AW 18650 2600 vs. primaries on high. On LOW, using the two-stage ring, the 18650 definitely has the lower output. I would say 5-10 lumens on low vs. 20ish with primaries.

As for tint, my example is white at full output. When using the two-stage ring, the tint goes grey/green. Color shift is something I expect for a resitored low level (as opposed to PWM to control output) so it is not something that I would consider to be an issue. Personally, if a beam has to have a tint associated with it, I would pick pink/purple as the least obtrusive to my perception. Green, while not as aesthetically nice as vanilla/cream is still MUCH preffered over blue. 

Again, no tint on HIGH, but a color shift on LOW with the two-stage ring.

Maybe I'll head down to the beach tonight to see how it does there.


----------



## Alberta-Blue

Best wishes for a speedy recovery Gene.

Alberta-Blue


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Get well soon Gene!!! :thumbsup:

Those appendectomies can be very tiring and draining, my good buddy had to have his removed last year after a few days of being very ill.


----------



## LumenMan

Gene, get well soon my friend !


----------



## RWT1405

Get well soon Gene, I NEED to buy MANY more of your wonderful toys, I mean devices!

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## gnlw

Best Wishes for a speedy recovery, Gene!


----------



## msap

Gene, get well soon and God bless.

Regarding the MD2 from One Source Tactical....just had mine delivered and all I can say is wow! This was a hell of deal to say the least. MD2 with M61 for $93 shipped. Soon as I get the Malkoff pocket clip I'll be set. Construction on the MD2 is quite impressive to say the least.


----------



## 737mech

Well I got a package delivered from One Source Tactical just now. Opened it up and found that I indeed got a screaming deal on a Black MD2 light with the NEW M61 dropin. All for $93.49 delivered. 

I also installed the pocket clip I ordered from Malkoff. Now I just need it to get dark!


----------



## MrGman

737mech said:


> Well I got a package delivered from One Source Tactical just now. Opened it up and found that I indeed got a screaming deal on a Black MD2 light with the NEW M61 dropin. All for $93.49 delivered.
> 
> I also installed the pocket clip I ordered from Malkoff. Now I just need it to get dark!


 

That is a good deal. Just got my M61 and have been testing it. Wonderful beam. Excellent cross between an M60 and M60 flood. 

So I was observing that the brightness appears to be the same whether on one 18650 with a full charge or 2XRCR123 rechargeables. However on low of course with the 2 mode switch, its much brighter using 2XRCR123's than the 1X18650. Much more comparable in overall brightness on low to the M60 on low with 2XRCR123s. A video will be in the making.


----------



## youreacrab

Woods Walker said:


> Any news when Gene is going to make a M61L cuz I want one for my plastic G2Z.



would be great if the M61L was optimized for runtime and kept at the same brightness level. what could we expect, 5-6 hours?


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*Re: The Malkoff M61! (3.4V vs. 3V)*



etc said:


> If there is ever a M61L or M61LL, then you can use AA cells.



Not the same thing as an M61; I want mucho lumens.


----------



## JNewell

*Re: The Malkoff M61! (3.4V vs. 3V)*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Not the same thing as an M61; I want mucho lumens.


 
I was going to agree, but just as there were some uses for the M60L and M60LL, I suppose there could be a use for the M61L, based on the greater efficiency of the new emitter?


----------



## tsl

Woods Walker said:


> Any news when Gene is going to make a M61L cuz I want one for my plastic G2Z.


 
I emailed Gene a couple weeks back about this topic. He does plan on offering M61L's. When asked when they'd be available, he said he had no idea but it may be a month or two.


----------



## Chevy-SS

dwminer said:


> Hey Gene speedy recovery from all us folks on CPF forum. As a side note I just received my Malkoff MD2 from One Source Tactical, complete with with batteries. Neat flashlight.



+1 on the speedy recovery.

Hey, what are the dimensions of the MD2? It does not list length or width on the Malkoff web site.

thanks


----------



## jorn

total lenght =12,9 cm.
diameter head 3,0 cm.
diamer body 2,45 cm.
The mesurement isn't 100% exact, mesured with a ruler.
Its the most compact and pocketfriendly 18650 light i own:twothumbs


----------



## pm91

+1 on the speedy recovery. 
I guess it's safe to assume that M61's won't be available for awhile...months?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Bored, took these with my Blackberry

M60 on Left, M61 on right












M61 on Lt/ M60 on Rt


----------



## pm91

Thanks for the pics...there isn't anything wrong with that M60 beam. I don't see a straight M60 on the Malkoff website, they all have letters after them.


----------



## carrot

M60 is sold out and probably gone for good. So will all the M60 variants, probably. M61 is replacing it, for better or for worse (I say better).

Some dealers may have stock of the Malkoff M60, but I dunno.


----------



## Chevy-SS

jorn said:


> total lenght =12,9 cm.
> diameter head 3,0 cm.
> diamer body 2,45 cm.
> The mesurement isn't 100% exact, mesured with a ruler.
> Its the most compact and pocketfriendly 18650 light i own:twothumbs



thanks!

-


----------



## JNewell

I was playing around with my M61, M60 and M60F hosts last night. I have no trouble beating the M61 with Gene's M60s.

The problem is, I have to use them both at the same time!  Shining the M60 and the M60F coaxially is a beautiful beam - lots of flood (duh) and a little better throw than the M61.

The fact that it takes two of Gene's earlier drop-ins to equal (or, actually, slightly exceed) the M61 - and the fact that the M61 will run longer - totally confirms what wizardry Gene has packed into this newest one.

Gene, best luck for a speedy recovery!


----------



## bc5000

A couple more beam shots.

It's hard for me to see much difference between the two here.

*M60*






*M61*


----------



## MrGman

I haven't made a video yet but my side to side comparison shows a lot more light in the spill of the M61. The center of the hot spots of the M60 and M61 shows that they are about the same in intensity, maybe a slight edge to the M60, may be deceptive because its a smaller and more well defined hotspot. But when I look out at the spill region, especially along the outer rim, the M61 has a lot more light in it. So with a smoother beam transition from hotspot to spill and what looks like more total lumens spread out in the beam I would have to say the M61 makes for an even better all purpose flashlight beam pattern for everyday use. 


For those guys who aren't happy unless they have a very well defined hotspot to throw down range, this may be disappointing but when looking at things in the real world the M61 is just the brighter smoother beam to see what you want to look at. 

Maybe I will be able to get a video done tomorrow night. 

Rest well Gene, You hit another one out of the ball park. Gary


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

M61 vs M60 

M61 is 1 x 18650
M60 is 2 x 18500

Manual mode, they arent the best pics, but get decent ideas about the difference of the two.

40ish Ft.
M61





M60





100ish Ft.
M61





M60





180ish ft.
M61





M60


----------



## umc

Wow, when it comes to throw the M60 kicks butt which is why I'm surprised that Gene would drop them from his lineup. I tend to like throw more than spill when it comes to higher lumens, it just makes more sense.

Anyway, I was excited about the M61 but maybe not so much now. I'm on the watch list so maybe I'll pick up one or two just to replace a M60 or two so I can hang on to them as they will now be more valuable (for the time being) Actually, I was just cleaning the War Room and came across a M60 and a M60LL both in the original packaging. Weird because I thought all Malkoff Devices where out in hosts.

Hmmmmm, what to do with these two...:shrug:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Slide show. 

This IMO, shows the difference ALOT better than looking aty the pics!!!! If someone can post a GIF here w Tags, that would be sweet!


----------



## carrot

Great shots, PSM! :kewlpics:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

carrot said:


> Great shots, PSM! :kewlpics:



Thanks Carrot, hopefully someone here can make a GIF slideshow w tags.


----------



## Woods Walker

Nice photos. I am going to put a Surefire 6P Al bezel on the all plastic G2Z and get a M61L when Gene makes them. Hope he gets well soon. Guessing the threads are the same as the plastic head?


----------



## etc

PoliceScannerMan said:


> M61 vs M60
> 
> M61 is 1 x 18650
> M60 is 2 x 18500



Now you know that's not a fair comparison since the M60* runs better on multiple cells than one. M60 for sure. I can tell a 50-lumen difference between M60 on 1x18650 or 2 primaries.

Better to compare M61 and M60, both on 2x18650.... or 3x123s.

These are nice pics though.

You can clearly see the tint of M61 is nicer. I have M60 and it has that sickly pure white with a bit of blue in it, kind of like M60 in your pic.

My conclusion is that past 50m, M60 kills M61. The more concentrated throw makes it look brighter. But at shorter distances than 50m, M61 might be a good all-around all-purpose lite.


----------



## Bimmerboy

Getting older SUCKS!!!

Get well soon, Gene! :thumbsup:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

etc said:


> Now you know that's not a fair comparison since the M60* runs better on multiple cells than one. M60 for sure. I can tell a 50-lumen difference between M60 on 1x18650 or 2 primaries.



It is a fair comparison IMO, bc the M61 is full power w 1 Li Ion, so is the M60 on 2 x Li Ion. :thinking:


----------



## etc

Understod....


----------



## JNewell

I agree with your findings. I do think the M60 actually has somewhat greater throw, but noticeably less spill. For overall usefulness, especiallly considering the greater efficiency, the M61 is impossible not to like.



MrGman said:


> I haven't made a video yet but my side to side comparison shows a lot more light in the spill of the M61. The center of the hot spots of the M60 and M61 shows that they are about the same in intensity, maybe a slight edge to the M60, may be deceptive because its a smaller and more well defined hotspot. But when I look out at the spill region, especially along the outer rim, the M61 has a lot more light in it. So with a smoother beam transition from hotspot to spill and what looks like more total lumens spread out in the beam I would have to say the M61 makes for an even better all purpose flashlight beam pattern for everyday use.
> 
> 
> For those guys who aren't happy unless they have a very well defined hotspot to throw down range, this may be disappointing but when looking at things in the real world the M61 is just the brighter smoother beam to see what you want to look at.
> 
> Maybe I will be able to get a video done tomorrow night.
> 
> Rest well Gene, You hit another one out of the ball park. Gary


----------



## FrankW438

*GET WELL, GENE!*



etc said:


> My conclusion is that past 50m, M60 kills M61. The more concentrated throw makes it look brighter. But at shorter distances than 50m, M61 might be a good all-around all-purpose lite.



50 Meters sounds like a good estimation. I have been tempted to test this out myself, to find at what range the M60 is better suited for the job than the M61. The great majority of my lighting needs are within 50 meters, and I agree so far the M61 seems better suited for me. However, I don't think I'm quite ready to get rid of all of my M60's quite yet...

-- Frank


----------



## kyhunter1

Who says you have to get rid of your M60's to have a M61? Wait, you could give me all your M60's! :nana: I agree that the M61 is better suited for 50 yards in. To me, the M60 does have more noticeable throw past 50 yards. IMO, the M61 is the best compromise between flood and throw available right now, not to mention awesome fringe benifits like awesome runtimes on both primaries and rechargeables. 



FrankW438 said:


> 50 Meters sounds like a good estimation. I have been tempted to test this out myself, to find at what range the M60 is better suited for the job than the M61. The great majority of my lighting needs are within 50 meters, and I agree so far the M61 seems better suited for me. However, I don't think I'm quite ready to get rid of all of my M60's quite yet...
> 
> -- Frank


----------



## Alberta-Blue

Well, after having the M61 on duty for about 4 days.... I'M IMPRESSED! This malkoff Drop-in has a beautiful balance of flood and throw and is bright as hell. This McLeish reflector is absolutly stunning with zero flaws, awsome throw for what it is , excellent flood and the heat sinking is perfect (as with all malkoff products) as it only felt warm at best after prolonged use.

This is another spectactular product for Gene. I am amazed by this product and will be purchasing another.

Way to go Gene!!

Alberta-Blue


----------



## JNewell

kyhunter1 said:


> Who says you have to get rid of your M60's to have a M61? Wait, you could give me all your M60's! :nana: I agree that the M61 is better suited for 50 yards in. To me, the M60 does have more noticeable throw past 50 yards. IMO, the M61 is the best compromise between flood and throw available right now, not to mention awesome fringe benifits like awesome runtimes on both primaries and rechargeables.


 
*ahem* I'll line up right behind you on all of that...:twothumbs


----------



## MrGman

I was able to make 7 short videos comparing the new M61 module in an MD2 to other flashlights at 17 and 41 feet. I have successfully uploaded 4 of the 7. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FtB8Kf-O38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNN90va44SI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6q3AKralPM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqta7meWAow

I will try to get the last 3 posted tomorrow.


----------



## BigHonu

Nice shots PSM!

Thanks for the videos MrGman!


----------



## yuk

Thank you so much MrGman! :thumbsup:
M61 is awesome for short distances like indoor use.


----------



## Chevy-SS

Thanks Gman! :thumbsup: 

-


----------



## yuk

Now I really looking forward to the M61LL. 100 floody lumens for 8-9 hours? This will make the best around the house flashlight ever! :twothumbs


----------



## MrGman

yuk said:


> Now I really looking forward to the M61LL. 100 floody lumens for 8-9 hours? This will make the best around the house flashlight ever! :twothumbs


 

Now don't forget that the hi/low switch ring also works with the M61, so you can have a low mode light that will run a lot longer than that from the regular M61 and have 280 lumen goodness when you want. Don't need to buy a low powered M61 just to get low power. I really like the MD series with the switch ring to get low mode.


----------



## BigHonu

MrGman said:


> Now don't forget that the hi/low switch ring also works with the M61, so you can have a low mode light that will run a lot longer than that from the regular M61 and have 280 lumen goodness when you want. Don't need to buy a low powered M61 just to get low power. I really like the MD series with the switch ring to get low mode.



+1 about the MD series with the switch ring.

I'm sure if you are savy enough on soldering side of things, you could alter the resistance to get the optimal output you desire based on your most commonly used power source.


----------



## Chevy-SS

The M61 does sound awesome. What's the best 'tactical' body to put the M61 into?

thanks

-


----------



## Robert_M

Personally, I prefer the SF Z2 with my M60 and will eventually put an M61 in it once they become more readily available. The Z2 has a grip ring which makes it easy to "pair" with a handgun.


----------



## Agile54

THIS > Personally, I prefer the SF Z2 with my M60 and will eventually put an M61 in it once they become more readily available. The Z2 has a grip ring which makes it easy to "pair" with a handgun.

Nothing like some wisdom from a fellow TXN.


----------



## Painful Chafe

MrGman said:


> I was able to make 7 short videos comparing the new M61 module in an MD2 to other flashlights at 17 and 41 feet. I have successfully uploaded 4 of the 7.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FtB8Kf-O38
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNN90va44SI
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6q3AKralPM
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqta7meWAow
> 
> I will try to get the last 3 posted tomorrow.




Great set of videos. Thanks for the work. 



BTW, sounds like Mrs. Gman is doing a little laundry just outside the Top Secret Bunker Of Truth.


----------



## MrGman

Painful Chafe said:


> Great set of videos. Thanks for the work.
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, sounds like Mrs. Gman is doing a little laundry just outside the Top Secret Bunker Of Truth.


 

That is a special "white noise" created to mask the true location of the top secret bunker of truth. And my socks are clean dry and fluffy


----------



## Chevy-SS

Robert_M said:


> Personally, I prefer the SF Z2 with my M60 and will eventually put an M61 in it once they become more readily available. The Z2 has a grip ring which makes it easy to "pair" with a handgun.




Good tip, thanks. 

Does anyone know - is there any way to purchase just the SF Z2 body, without the lamp?


-


----------



## funkymonkey1111

MrGman said:


> I was able to make 7 short videos comparing the new M61 module in an MD2 to other flashlights at 17 and 41 feet. I have successfully uploaded 4 of the 7.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FtB8Kf-O38
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNN90va44SI
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6q3AKralPM
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqta7meWAow
> 
> I will try to get the last 3 posted tomorrow.


 
Great videos--but can't see how the M61 is any improvement over the M60


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

funkymonkey1111 said:


> Great videos--but can't see how the M61 is any improvement over the M60



You would if you had one. :naughty:

Hard to appreciate it w just looking at pics and videos.


----------



## MrGman

funkymonkey1111 said:


> Great videos--but can't see how the M61 is any improvement over the M60


 
total brightness is higher, transition from hot spot to spill is more gradual, makes it easier to simply see things better in the real 3D world. That's about it. They are both really good modules.


----------



## JNewell

PoliceScannerMan said:


> You would if you had one. :naughty:
> 
> Hard to appreciate it w just looking at pics and videos.



Concur.


----------



## MrGman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCllKXaikiM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVHW5ZbdTv4

These are two more video comparisons of the Malkoff M61 to the Anto XPG-R5 in a Solarforce L2 host using 1 X18650 which I am told is the preferred and nominal operating voltage source. I am formulating ideas for other ways to show the beamshots of these lights in the new bunker of truth as well. Enjoy. the last video #7 is actually of the MD4 Wildcat versus the Nailbender MCE in a maglite which doesn't really belong here. You can find it on youtube or posted in my actual lumens thread that is now many pages long in post 394 on page 14.

All of my videos for flashlights on youtube can be found by a search of MrGman9999.


----------



## MrGman

PoliceScannerMan said:


> You would if you had one. :naughty:
> 
> Hard to appreciate it w just looking at pics and videos.


 

So true, as I have said before and should have mentioned with the videos that they never do the beams true justice to what you see with your eye. The M61 is simply noticeably brighter than the already great M60. It almost goes head to head with the M60_MCE floodlight because it has a very useable hotspot but lots of great spill as well. Certainly outdoes the M60F. But, I sure as heck aint sending you guys my M61 in the MD2 host for you to compare for yourself so free videos is all your gonna get.


----------



## funkymonkey1111

JNewell said:


> Concur.


 

well, luckily, i do have one, so i'm quite able to validate my conclusion.


----------



## RWT1405

WOW!, is all I have to say about that. You don't see the difference between the M60 & M61? I see a difference between the M61's (3) I have and the M60's I have. 

But to each, their own. 

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## Bullzeyebill

RWT1405 said:


> WOW!, is all I have to say about that. You don't see the difference between the M60 & M61? I see a difference between the M61's (3) I have and the M60's I have.
> 
> But to each, their own.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV



Please elaborate. Feedback is good when a new product comes out, good for Gene too.

Bill


----------



## funkymonkey1111

RWT1405 said:


> WOW!, is all I have to say about that. You don't see the difference between the M60 & M61? I see a difference between the M61's (3) I have and the M60's I have.
> 
> But to each, their own.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV


 
I didn't say i didn't see a "difference"--i said I didn't see an improvement. Yes, clearly there's a difference, but to me, not a positive one.


----------



## RWT1405

Ok, fair enough funkymonkey, that is what you said. My apologies, I stand corrected.

What I like BETTER about the M61 is that while it does not have as much "throw", it has a BIGGER hotspot & what I see as MUCH more “spill”. 

I used the M60's (now M61's) in lights (Z2’s, C2’s, etc) I carry with my handgun (CCW), and the “spill” is important to me, if I need it in that context. I gladly will "give up" a little “throw” to gain the additional “spill” of the M61’s. 

I know that many here are obsessed with “throw only” lights, but I am usually much more impressed with “flood” or good “spill” as I use my lights for work & CCW, and not so much for “play”, as so many here do. 

The M61 having such a wonderful “mix” of “throw & spill” makes it perfect for what I want, for a CCW light. But many people’s needs may be different from mine.

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## BigHonu

Well, I can see where more throw would be better outside when trying to spot something over at the other end of the field, or up at the top of a taller building. In those cases the M61 would not be an improvement over the M60. 

Still, it is very hard to not like the more even illumination of the M61 at close to medium ranges, the increased efficiency, the greater output, and better compatibility with 18650's.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

funkymonkey1111 said:


> well, luckily, i do have one, so i'm quite able to validate my conclusion.



Hey no problem! Everyone has a right to their opinion. 

Do you mind sharing your thoughts on how/why the M61 is not any improvement over the M60?


----------



## funkymonkey1111

Prefer the more throwy beam of the M60. Obviously this is the first of probably many iterations of the M61 but its too floody for my preferred usage. Obviously with the M60, there are floodier variants if you chose that for your usage. 

This isn't to bash Malkoff or anything--i'm generally pleased with the M61, and especially like the MD2 light. but, to me, the greater flood at the expense of of a tighter hotspot and throw are not general improvements over the M60.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

funkymonkey1111 said:


> Prefer the more throwy beam of the M60. Obviously this is the first of probably many iterations of the M61 but its too floody for my preferred usage. Obviously with the M60, there are floodier variants if you chose that for your usage.
> 
> This isn't to bash Malkoff or anything--i'm generally pleased with the M61, and especially like the MD2 light. but, to me, the greater flood at the expense of of a tighter hotspot and throw are not general improvements over the M60.



No Malkoff bashing perceived, after all you are comapring it to another Malkoff!  

I see your POV, the M60 out throws the M61 for sure. 

It is safe to say the M61 is a improvement of the M60F.


----------



## funkymonkey1111

I didn't like my SF LX2 when i got it, either, and now its my go-to light, so maybe the MD2/P61 will grow on me. I'm sure not ready to get rid of it or anything....


----------



## Brasso

I love the M61, but wish it had an even larger hotspot. Mine is dedicated to a more tactical use and a tight hotspot isn't as practical. To each their own.


----------



## JNewell

funkymonkey1111 said:


> well, luckily, i do have one, so i'm quite able to validate my conclusion.


 
If you see no difference, you should sell the M61. There are people here who would almost kill to get their hands on one.


----------



## JNewell

PoliceScannerMan said:


> No Malkoff bashing perceived, after all you are comapring it to another Malkoff!
> 
> I see your POV, the M60 out throws the M61 for sure.
> 
> It is safe to say the M61 is a improvement of the M60F.


 
The M60 does out-throw, but not by a whole lot, and the runtime on the M61 is longer.

The M60F is a better broad, floody, full-spill beam than the M61, however. 



> The M61 having such a wonderful “mix” of “throw & spill” makes it perfect for what I want, for a CCW light. But many people’s needs may be different from mine.


 
I agree. Since you can't get everything in a single light, I bumped the M60 in my 6Z for the M61, but they're both outstanding.


----------



## Darvis

How does the M61 beam compare to the Dereelight XPG-R5? Just curious if anyone has any idea as I'm looking to replace the Dereelight drop-in with a Malkoff once they're available again in the newest format. I have a few M60L's and LL's, but want the full powered version next...


----------



## Chevy-SS

RWT1405 said:


> ....
> 
> I used the M60's (now M61's) in lights (Z2’s, C2’s, etc) I carry with my handgun (CCW), and the “spill” is important to me, if I need it in that context. I gladly will "give up" a little “throw” to gain the additional “spill” of the M61’s.
> 
> I know that many here are obsessed with “throw only” lights, but I am usually much more impressed with “flood” or good “spill” as I use my lights for work & CCW, and not so much for “play”, as so many here do.
> 
> The M61 having such a wonderful “mix” of “throw & spill” makes it perfect for what I want, for a CCW light. But many people’s needs may be different from mine.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV




Yeah man, similar situation here. I greatly prefer a larger hotspot, more flood. Much easier to keep it in the bad-guys face at close range.


-


----------



## RobertM

Can anyone comment as to whether or not the M61 leaves a gap between the bezel and body on SF lights (6P/C2 etc.)?

EDIT: Never mind, I see that carrot already answered this in post #611.

Thanks,
Robert


----------



## Kid9P

Where can I pick up one of these Anto drop ins?


----------



## damn_hammer

The M61 in with a Z44 bezel, and G2 body, there is a very slight gap. Haven't measured it, as I have no mic. The gap on my all Nitrolon G2 w/Malkoff M60LL is more noticeable, i.e. bigger.


----------



## kyhunter1

PM incoming. 



Kid9P said:


> Where can I pick up one of these Anto drop ins?


----------



## funkymonkey1111

RWT1405 said:


> Ok, fair enough funkymonkey, that is what you said. My apologies, I stand corrected.
> 
> What I like BETTER about the M61 is that while it does not have as much "throw", it has a BIGGER hotspot & what I see as MUCH more “spill”.
> 
> I used the M60's (now M61's) in lights (Z2’s, C2’s, etc) I carry with my handgun (CCW), and the “spill” is important to me, if I need it in that context. I gladly will "give up" a little “throw” to gain the additional “spill” of the M61’s.
> 
> I know that many here are obsessed with “throw only” lights, but I am usually much more impressed with “flood” or good “spill” as I use my lights for work & CCW, and not so much for “play”, as so many here do.
> 
> The M61 having such a wonderful “mix” of “throw & spill” makes it perfect for what I want, for a CCW light. But many people’s needs may be different from mine.
> 
> My .02 FWIW YMMV


 

what type of work does the flood beam excel over the throw? just curious for "real world" application since obviously these are just toys for me.


----------



## RWT1405

I believe that I explained MY reasons for liking the M61 above. How about YOU explain why you need pure “throw”? 

As I said, I understand that not everyone’s needs are the same as mine and then explained what mine were, as I was asked to by Bullzeyebill. What exactly are yours?

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## funkymonkey1111

oh, i just sit on the couch and shine them against the wall for my own amusement. but the wall is really far away, which is why i need the throw. 

and yes, "for work" really cleared it up!


----------



## RWT1405

Good answer, thanks for “clearing” that up.

I will wish you a good day and hope you find what you are looking for. 

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## msap

I'll jump on the "work" aspect of the M61. In LE I need a light with decent throw but also enough spill to light up my peripheral vision. I work in an urban area mostly but I do have parks and wooded areas to deal with in and around the city. When searching rooms, back yards, wooded areas etc. having just a tight beam really decreases my ability to see what might be lurking to my flanks. A light with decent throw and spill works wonders for searching for badguys that might want to hurt me. Especially when searching for multiple subjects. The M61 is perfect for my needs in situations like that. I have also carried SF LX2 and E2DL. While they have a great hot spot and throw, their spill is inadequate compared to the M61. I'll sacrifice a little throw (very minimal when comparing these lights) for better spill with the M61. That's my real world "work" experience.


----------



## funkymonkey1111

msap said:


> I'll jump on the "work" aspect of the M61. In LE I need a light with decent throw but also enough spill to light up my peripheral vision. I work in an urban area mostly but I do have parks and wooded areas to deal with in and around the city. When searching rooms, back yards, wooded areas etc. having just a tight beam really decreases my ability to see what might be lurking to my flanks. A light with decent throw and spill works wonders for searching for badguys that might want to hurt me. Especially when searching for multiple subjects. The M61 is perfect for my needs in situations like that. I have also carried SF LX2 and E2DL. While they have a great hot spot and throw, their spill is inadequate compared to the M61. I'll sacrifice a little throw (very minimal when comparing these lights) for better spill with the M61. That's my real world "work" experience.


 
now see, that's helpful information to have. thanks for the reply.


----------



## MrGman

msap said:


> I'll jump on the "work" aspect of the M61. In LE I need a light with decent throw but also enough spill to light up my peripheral vision. I work in an urban area mostly but I do have parks and wooded areas to deal with in and around the city. When searching rooms, back yards, wooded areas etc. having just a tight beam really decreases my ability to see what might be lurking to my flanks. A light with decent throw and spill works wonders for searching for badguys that might want to hurt me. Especially when searching for multiple subjects. The M61 is perfect for my needs in situations like that. I have also carried SF LX2 and E2DL. While they have a great hot spot and throw, their spill is inadequate compared to the M61. I'll sacrifice a little throw (very minimal when comparing these lights) for better spill with the M61. That's my real world "work" experience.


 

Its mostly for guys like you that I have tried to make my test videos with multiple targets spread out. I hope you found those helpful? I just recently moved again, and the backyard is buried with snow so I am in the basement of truth but I have previously done lots of back yard videos and photo shoots with targets spread out about to about 30 feet some partially behind the house and the tree or shed. The M61 is a great general purpose light for seeing all of that without an overwhelming contrast ratio of hot spot to spill as some other lights have. 

When the weather improves I will try and make some videos in the newest back yard with targets spread out across the width of the yard. 

Good Hunting.


----------



## ginaz

i find that in urban areas with a lot of ambient light "noise" that i need a tighter beam to be visible through that.


----------



## NotRegulated

msap said:


> _I'll jump on the "work" aspect of the M61. In LE I need a light with decent throw but also enough spill to light up my peripheral vision. I work in an urban area mostly but I do have parks and wooded areas to deal with in and around the city. When searching rooms, back yards, wooded areas etc. having just a tight beam really decreases my ability to see what might be lurking to my flanks. A light with decent throw and spill works wonders for searching for badguys that might want to hurt me. Especially when searching for multiple subjects. The M61 is perfect for my needs in situations like that. I have also carried SF LX2 and E2DL. While they have a great hot spot and throw, their spill is inadequate compared to the M61. I'll sacrifice a little throw (very minimal when comparing these lights) for better spill with the M61. That's my real world "work" experience._



This is where the incandescent Surefire P91 lamp shines (pardon the pun!) but it's runtime is the drawback. 

*I would like to see the P91 incan's brightness and spill compared side by side to the M61.*


----------



## msap

MrGman said:


> Its mostly for guys like you that I have tried to make my test videos with multiple targets spread out. I hope you found those helpful? I just recently moved again, and the backyard is buried with snow so I am in the basement of truth but I have previously done lots of back yard videos and photo shoots with targets spread out about to about 30 feet some partially behind the house and the tree or shed. The M61 is a great general purpose light for seeing all of that without an overwhelming contrast ratio of hot spot to spill as some other lights have.
> 
> When the weather improves I will try and make some videos in the newest back yard with targets spread out across the width of the yard.
> 
> Good Hunting.[/QUOTE
> 
> One of the things I liked about your video was how the M60 almost appeared to have too much of a hot spot for indoor use. From your video it seemed to wash out the target. With the M61 you could still make out details of the target that you were pointing at with the light. The spill of the M61 also filled the room much better.
> 
> Seems like some guys are on that never ending search for the perfect all purpose light. For me, the M61 comes very close to that, but my uses and needs still vary from others. I'm new to these Malkoff dropins but so far I'm very impressed. Can't wait to see what variations of the M61 Gene comes up with. I was strictly a SF guy up till a few weeks ago. Since I got my hands on some Malkoff products, I've changed my mind a little. I would carry my MD2 on duty any day but right now it's my off duty torch.
> 
> Changing missions influence the tools I use. I have multiple lights for different jobs. Not sure any light manufacturer could combine 10 or so lights into one.


----------



## MrGman

NotRegulated said:


> This is where the incandescent Surefire P91 lamp shines (pardon the pun!) but it's runtime is the drawback.
> 
> *I would like to see the P91 incan's brightness and spill compared side by side to the M61.*


 

I can do a video to make that happen, maybe this weekend. the warmth of the incan and the less intense hotspot do make it a very useful light except for the high current draw it has, which makes for very short run time.


----------



## Liteskr42

Darvis

The dereelight xpg R5 dropin has a a slightly deeper wider reflector and as such the hotspot is smaller and a bit more intense. I think its being pushed a wee itty bit more also ?


----------



## funkymonkey1111

i will say this--to my naked eye, my LX2 is brighter than the MD2 equipped M61. I don't have any measuring equipment to verify this, though.


----------



## carrot

funkymonkey1111 said:


> i will say this--to my naked eye, my LX2 is brighter than the MD2 equipped M61. I don't have any measuring equipment to verify this, though.


Even with the ceiling bounce test?


----------



## Kestrel

funkymonkey1111 said:


> i will say this--to my naked eye, my LX2 is brighter than the MD2 equipped M61. I don't have any measuring equipment to verify this, though.


 


carrot said:


> Even with the ceiling bounce test?


 
I hope fm1111 isn't just comparing the beam utilizing the 'Mk I Eyeball', as the SureFire TIR optic is a completely different animal compared to the M61's reflector. :ironic:


----------



## funkymonkey1111

yes, just the eyeball test shined on the walls, ceiling, and outside. both are very bright, no doubt about it. i'm just saying what i observed with the naked eye, which i know can be unreliable in this context.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Yes, the LX2 has a very bright hotspot, about 10,000 lux, but overall output should be higher with the Malkoff M61.

Bill


----------



## JNewell

> Seems like some guys are on that never ending search for the perfect all purpose light. For me, the M61 comes very close to that, but my uses and needs still vary from others.


 
Definite yes on the first sentence. How else do you think we wind up with such a forest of lights???  I agree with the first part of the second sentence, and part of the problem (go back to the first sentence) is that I have enough different needs and uses that no one light would ever really do it all perfectly. But...back to the first sentence...we keep trying...  :twothumbs


----------



## carrot

The M61 comes very close to perfect for my needs as well. Having the two-stage in an MD2 will make it perfect. Need one of those with a clip next...


----------



## pm91

kyhunter1 said:


> PM incoming.


What is an Anton drop-in and where can I learn more about them/find them??

Thanks,
p


----------



## kyhunter1

Make that Anto. What is significant about it is that it is 300 lumens OTF, and has alot of throw to it, more than most other xpg drop ins. It is a standard p60 drop in with the XPG in R5 led with a nice beam. It is heat sinked well and the electronics are potted. There is a sales thread for them in the customs and modified B/S/T forum. You may have to do a search to find it. 



pm91 said:


> What is an Anton drop-in and where can I learn more about them/find them??
> 
> Thanks,
> p


----------



## RichS

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Thanks Carrot, hopefully someone here can make a GIF slideshow w tags.


Someone order animated GIFS w/ tags?? 

Great shots PoliceScannerMan. These shots clearly illustrate that the M60 and M61 are two completely different beasts. One is not better than the other IMO, but serve different purposes. My M30W is simply unbeatable outdoors and out in the woods with long dark trails. That throwy optic that gives you plenty of huge spill is just hard to beat.

Don't abandon the M60 Gene!!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

RichS, THANKS!!!!  :thumbsup:

If anyone is wondering, the target at 180 feet is my bat house. :naughty:


----------



## pm91

I like the M60, but they don't make them anymore.


----------



## MrGman

NotRegulated said:


> This is where the incandescent Surefire P91 lamp shines (pardon the pun!) but it's runtime is the drawback.
> 
> *I would like to see the P91 incan's brightness and spill compared side by side to the M61.*


 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHUrL04aFhw

Video comparison directly of the Malkoff M61 to the Surefire P91. A 4 watt LED to a 19 to 20 watt Incandescent. At some time in the future I will do an outdoor one, still too much snow on the ground. G.


----------



## Liteskr42

Hey, those animated pics are really great!!

I am quite surprised after staring at them for quite some time. The M60 doesnt seem to be lacking in anyway to the M61!!! The shape of the spill on the two is different but to me in all pics it is equivalent to the M61? In the 2nd and 3rd ones it looks like the M60 has MORE spill? And the M60 has a colder tint and the M61 looks greenish?


----------



## RichS

MrGman said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHUrL04aFhw
> 
> Video comparison directly of the Malkoff M61 to the Surefire P91. A 4 watt LED to a 19 to 20 watt Incandescent. At some time in the future I will do an outdoor one, still too much snow on the ground. G.


 
Nice video comparison, but too short of a distance. The M61 looks bright for sure, but the P91 looks like it's about to burn a hole through the wall at that distance...


----------



## MrGman

RichS said:


> Nice video comparison, but too short of a distance. The M61 looks bright for sure, but the P91 looks like it's about to burn a hole through the wall at that distance...


 

Yep that's true. I tried using a distance that showed the overall spill of each in the video because the SF P91 drops off more sharply than the M61, when you can see both with real eyes. Also if I back up to the rear wall then the two individual beams are too wide to do the side by side comparison on that narrow wall. A better comparison will have to wait for outdoor work. The P91 does have more total lumens but not enough to justify the extra 15 watts of consumed power.


----------



## fespo276

Here is my view. I have been carrying an M61 in a C2 host for about two weeks at work (LEO). Before that, I was carrying a BOG Q5 LED, which has more throw than the M61. Now, throw is very important to me. Why?

Distance: I need, at times, to see 100 yards at night. Example: Searching a cemetery for a hiding suspect who is crouched down to look like a headstone. I need to differentiate between the two. The BOG does this better (I would say the BOG gets me an additional 20 real-world yards at distance).

“Obstacles”: I need to “punch through” things at closer distances. Example: I need to see “into” bushes and undergrowth, “into” windows that may be reflecting light, and “into” nooks and crannies. The BOG does this better.

Ambient light: I need to “overcome” this impediment. The BOG does this better.

Objects: I need to quickly focus my attention on an object, analyze it, and move on. Example: Checking a structure’s windows and doors (up to three floors), as I quickly walk around the building looking for damage and points of entry/exit. The BOG does this better. 

I do all of the above, literally, on a nightly basis.

That all said, the M61’s beam is just so much more useable for anything inside 50-75 yards, that I think the trade-off may be worth it. When comparing the two, the BOG looks like a laser. I feel that I am looking trough a “tunnel of light,” not really seeing the things just off to my left, and just off to my right. In contrast, I feel like the M61 lights up almost my entire field of vision. It clearly puts out more overall usable light in this regard.

I did a test, and I am able to “scan” a field with the M61 in a much quicker and in a much more natural way: Sweep left to right, taking in everything all at once—done! With the BOG, I have to really concentrate and focus as I move the light. The process is more like: move the light, pause, move the light, pause, move the light, pause—examining each lighted sector one by one, sometimes doubling back to rescan.

I would love to get my hands on an M60 to test. I’ll tell ya, if the M60 had just a “bit” more spill than the BOG, and retained the some hot spot (not sure about either), I think it would be perfect for me. If someone wants to send me an extra M60 to try, I will compare the two and if I like the M60 better, I will trade you the M61 for it.  Maybe.....


----------



## Kestrel

PoliceScannerMan said:


> RichS, THANKS!!!!


+2, those three sets of rotating shots really do a good job of showing the advantage that the M61 has at close range compared to the advantage that the M60 has at maximum range.


fespo276 said:


> I did a test, and I am able to “scan” a field with the M61 in a much quicker and in a much more natural way: Sweep left to right, taking in everything all at once—done! With the BOG, I have to really concentrate and focus as I move the light. The process is more like: move the light, pause, move the light, pause, move the light, pause—examining each lighted sector one by one, sometimes doubling back to rescan.


This is a very good comparison as to how lights may be actually used. Good evaluation. :thumbsup:

Edit: Looks like you're actively using your lights but posting only ~5 times per year -> great info. :huh:


----------



## funkymonkey1111

fespo276 said:


> Here is my view. I have been carrying an M61 in a C2 host for about two weeks at work (LEO). Before that, I was carrying a BOG Q5 LED, which has more throw than the M61. Now, throw is very important to me. Why?
> 
> Distance: I need, at times, to see 100 yards at night. Example: Searching a cemetery for a hiding suspect who is crouched down to look like a headstone. I need to differentiate between the two. The BOG does this better (I would say the BOG gets me an additional 20 real-world yards at distance).
> 
> “Obstacles”: I need to “punch through” things at closer distances. Example: I need to see “into” bushes and undergrowth, “into” windows that may be reflecting light, and “into” nooks and crannies. The BOG does this better.
> 
> Ambient light: I need to “overcome” this impediment. The BOG does this better.
> 
> Objects: I need to quickly focus my attention on an object, analyze it, and move on. Example: Checking a structure’s windows and doors (up to three floors), as I quickly walk around the building looking for damage and points of entry/exit. The BOG does this better.
> 
> I do all of the above, literally, on a nightly basis.
> 
> That all said, the M61’s beam is just so much more useable for anything inside 50-75 yards, that I think the trade-off may be worth it. When comparing the two, the BOG looks like a laser. I feel that I am looking trough a “tunnel of light,” not really seeing the things just off to my left, and just off to my right. In contrast, I feel like the M61 lights up almost my entire field of vision. It clearly puts out more overall usable light in this regard.
> 
> I did a test, and I am able to “scan” a field with the M61 in a much quicker and in a much more natural way: Sweep left to right, taking in everything all at once—done! With the BOG, I have to really concentrate and focus as I move the light. The process is more like: move the light, pause, move the light, pause, move the light, pause—examining each lighted sector one by one, sometimes doubling back to rescan.
> 
> I would love to get my hands on an M60 to test. I’ll tell ya, if the M60 had just a “bit” more spill than the BOG, and retained the some hot spot (not sure about either), I think it would be perfect for me. If someone wants to send me an extra M60 to try, I will compare the two and if I like the M60 better, I will trade you the M61 for it.  Maybe.....


 
These are the reasons I was leaning towards the BOG/M60 as superior, too--overcoming ambient light. I'm not in law enforcement, but I walk my dogs where coyotes frequent, but also in suburban parks where there are street lights/park lights than i need to pierce. this may be "for fun" or "for play" for the mighty CCW holders in the thread, but nonetheless it presents a legitimate need for a throwy light for me.

Last night, I took my dogs to a dog park that borders open space but has no lights. it is oriented at the lower portion of a mild ravine. We were the only ones there, and it was pitch dark. to fully evaluate the M61 in the MD2, that's the only light i took. in complete darkness I was really impressed with the smoothness of the beam and the spill, and even the useful throw. 

As we were leaving the park (but still inside the fences) the coyotes cut loose with their calling. I couldn't tell how many there were--it sounded like at least 3. I'm about 80 yards from the car. I've got an older border collie and a heeler with me so a pack of coyotes in the dark could mean trouble. I flashed the light in the direction of the calls, but never saw them--but the M61 lit up the area well in this circumstance and we were able to get to the car with no problem, fully illuminated. 

In this scenario i didn't need the extra throw, but in a flatter environment the extra throw would've been a help to locate the coyotes.


----------



## carrot

funkymonkey1111 said:


> yes, just the eyeball test shined on the walls, ceiling, and outside. both are very bright, no doubt about it. i'm just saying what i observed with the naked eye, which i know can be unreliable in this context.


No, the ceiling bounce test does not involve staring at the ceiling to compare the two beams.

Go into a small enclosed area with lots of bright colored walls, such as a closet or a bathroom, and shine one light on the ceiling. Observe the ambient light in the room, such as the way the sink, towels, shower curtain, etc, are lit. Then shine the other light on the ceiling. Observe the ambient light in the room again. Repeat if necessary.

This is the best way to compare the lumens output of two flashlights. Any other way leads to strange biases depending on the beam shape.


----------



## etc

JNewell said:


> The M60 does out-throw, but not by a whole lot, and the runtime on the M61 is longer.



Can you quantify the runtime, meaning how much longer?


----------



## etc

Outdoors, I like the beam pattern of M60** more.
Indoors and at close distances, I like M61 more.

I think I will upgrade to M61 when it comes out with an optic instead of reflector. But tempted to try it now anyway. Maybe if there is such a thing as M61LL.


----------



## carrot

Idle speculation aside there is, as far as I know from speaking with Gene, no plans to make a non reflector M61. As it stands the M61 is supposed to replace several of the M60 variants.


----------



## BigHonu

fespo276,

Great comparison! Sounds like your observations match what a lot of members are seeing as well.


----------



## DimmerD

fespo276 said:


> . I’ll tell ya, if the M60 had just a “bit” more spill than the BOG, and retained the some hot spot (not sure about either), I think it would be perfect for me.  Maybe.....



It's the other way around, the BOG has a "bit" more spill than the M60. I gave my buddy a 6P with M60 in it for Christmas and I had 9P with the BOG and he noticed the BOG had a bit more spill. Throw was about the same, maybe the BOG had a bit more. (bigger reflector than the M60 optic)


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

DimmerD said:


> It's the other way around, the BOG has a "bit" more spill than the M60. I gave my buddy a 6P with M60 in it for Christmas and I had 9P with the BOG and he noticed the BOG had a bit more spill. Throw was about the same, maybe the BOG had a bit more. (bigger reflector than the M60 optic)



he said *if* the M60 had more spill....


----------



## Vesper

carrot said:


> As it stands the M61 is supposed to replace several of the M60 variants.



While the beam looks warmer by default than the M60, I still hope there will be a warm version some day. I'm all for simplifying, but one size definitely won't fit all. We'll see I suppose. Regardless, I'm looking forward to getting one of these. Mix of M60 and M60F is perfect for my uses.


----------



## v188

I love my new 61. I'm running it in a SF 6P. I'd like to put it into a 3 battery SF 9p. Would this voltage be OK with my new 61? Thanks for helping a new Guy.


----------



## kyhunter1

Yes, as long as the maximum voltage of your batteries does not exceed 9 volts. 



v188 said:


> I love my new 61. I'm running it in a SF 6P. I'd like to put it into a 3 battery SF 9p. Would this voltage be OK with my new 61? Thanks for helping a new Guy.


----------



## Kestrel

v188 said:


> I love my new 61. I'm running it in a SF 6P. I'd like to put it into a 3 battery SF 9p. Would this voltage be OK with my new 61? Thanks for helping a new Guy.


*3x* CR123 primaries for ~7.5 volts or *2x* 17500 LiIon rechargeables for ~7.4 volts, should be just dandy.

*3x* *R*CR123 LiIon rechargeables @ *~11* volts, please don't - CPF needs every working M61 that Gene can make.


----------



## Swedpat

RichS said:


> Someone order animated GIFS w/ tags??
> 
> Great shots PoliceScannerMan. These shots clearly illustrate that the M60 and M61 are two completely different beasts. One is not better than the other IMO, but serve different purposes. My M30W is simply unbeatable outdoors and out in the woods with long dark trails. That throwy optic that gives you plenty of huge spill is just hard to beat.
> 
> Don't abandon the M60 Gene!!



Thank you PoliceScannerMan and RichS for your demonstration of the difference between M60 and M61!

I have wondered much about the difference of beams between M60 and typhical reflector beam, as I see that M61 has.
My first impression when I indoors at home tried my Malkoff MD2 M60 was that I thought it was a good hotspot but with a very narrow spill. Comparing indoors Fenix TK10 felt brighter with a superior spill. *
But it's easy to be deceived!* 
When I took out the MD2 to the forrest, I saw it's real potential: though the spill of this beam isn't as bright as the typhical reflector out to the width of typhical reflector beam, it continues to illuminate where the typhical reflector beam doesn't illuminate at all(which is visible in your beamshots). Instead of a sharp edged cut of the beam, it gradually diminishes and is wider.
The dimmer outer part of spill which I hardly noticed indoors (much because of the reflected light from the walls and ceiling) was clearly visible out in the field and it literally illuminated everything in a very useful manner!

Regards, Patric


----------



## NotRegulated

MrGman,
Thank you for the video comparison of the Malkoff M61 to the Surefire P91. Good job!


----------



## Bob96

Has anyone heard approx. when the P61 will be available to the Average Joe? Is it 4 - 6- 8+ weeks before they become available?


----------



## DimmerD

PoliceScannerMan said:


> he said *if* the M60 had more spill....



Yes I read that and that is exactly why I said it doesn't.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

DimmerD said:


> Yes I read that and that is exactly why I said it doesn't.



Thats a big 10-4!  :nana:


----------



## FroggyTaco

Bob96 said:


> Has anyone heard approx. when the P61 will be available to the Average Joe? Is it 4 - 6- 8+ weeks before they become available?



If you mean the Malkoff M61, Gene has been delayed due to appendectomy surgery. At some point he will be getting his production facility up to speed for volume production. But it is hard to say without his input when that is coming online.

Travis


----------



## MrGman

Gene is home resting and is not allowed to even think about work per the Wife's and Dr's order's till next week. So he is recovering and I am hoping he is just resting as he should to he is full recooperated.


----------



## DimmerD

MrGman said:


> Gene is home resting and is not allowed to even think about work per the Wife's and Dr's order's till next week. So he is recovering and I am hoping he is just resting as he should to he is full recooperated.



I hope they were able to do his surgery laparoscopically like mine a few years back. That way the recoop time is 2 to 3 weeks rather than 6 weeks. A 6 inch cut in your belly takes a lot longer to heal as opposed to the 2 to 3 little holes. I placed an order with them last week Wed. and it is still pending today... At least Cathy emailed me to let me know what the hold up was, I thought that was pretty nice of her.
GET WELL SOON Gene!


----------



## MrGman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8FyGPgolow

This is another comparison video of the Malkoff M61 in the MD2 against the Surefire P91 but this time at about 40 feet and all 5 targets on the wall so you don't see beam glare on the white wall confusing the issue of how bright is bright. Also through into the mix is the Anto XPG-R5. 

I shift the lights back and forth quickly and do it fast so the camera doesn't do a complete brightness overshoot and adjust so you can see on a relative scale their brightness as well as their tint. It will never be perfect, the camera will never be as good as the human eye of course. The Surefire P91 is the brighter light in total lumens but not by much and certainly can't justify 5 times the power draw. The Anto XPG is also brighter but its driven at 1.4 amps to the LED versus 1 amp. They are all good in their own right but different. 

The further away the yellower and dingier the incandescent beam seems to be and not as impressive as when its close and overwhelmingly bright on the white walls. It will always bring out the warmer colors better, but that isn't necessarily all that important. I can see red with the LEDs. So I hope this helps in rounding out the evaluation of these lights.

Its still much faster to make and post the videos than a handfull of still photos. Enjoy, G.


----------



## RWT1405

Thank you MrGman, very interesting!

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## pm91

What is a P61???


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

pm91 said:


> What is a P61???



The 120 lumen SF incan drop in.


----------



## FroggyTaco

MrGman said:


> The Anto XPG is also brighter but its driven at 1.4 amps to the LED versus 1 amp.



Are you getting the 1A reading by running the M61 on a 18650?


----------



## pm91

Why would one get a P61 incan when you can get a Malkoff M61 or M60 variant?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

pm91 said:


> Why would one get a P61 incan when you can get a Malkoff M61 or M60 variant?



I think whoever posted P61 meant to say M61, at least i hope he did. :naughty:


----------



## MrGman

The Video compares the SF P91 which is a 9V 200 lumen rated lamp that has been tested to put out 400 lumens out of two good quality 18650 batteries that can deliver the current to the Malkoff M61. At least in the new condition. If I have the incandescent model number wrong then it would be the P90 series not a 60 series at all. Been running it at 8 to 9V and haven't blown it up yet. I get 9V off a DC power supplly.


----------



## pm91

Do you mean this P91? It's on SF website.

*P91*


*Lamp/Reflector Assembly*



 javascript:openLarge('/surefire/content/images_inv/y/s/244/P91_xlarge_244.png') http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/images_inv/y/s/244/P91_large_244.png 
Specifications



Description 
P91
The ultra high output P91 Lamp Reflector Assembly gives you nearly twice the light of the P90 - 200 lumens with a 20 minute run time.
Fits: 9P, C3, D3, G3, Z3 Features 

200 lumens for 20 minutes
Fits in the SC1 Spares Carrier for field deployment


----------



## MrGman

pm91 said:


> Do you mean this P91? It's on SF website.
> 
> *P91*
> 
> 
> *Lamp/Reflector Assembly*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Specifications
> 
> 
> 
> Description
> P91
> The ultra high output P91 Lamp Reflector Assembly gives you nearly twice the light of the P90 - 200 lumens with a 20 minute run time.
> 
> Fits: 9P, C3, D3, G3, Z3 Features
> 
> 200 lumens for 20 minutes
> Fits in the SC1 Spares Carrier for field deployment


 

Yes I have measured that in a sphere at over 400 lumens real out the front. I have tested 3 different samples if I remember correctly. That was what I am comparing by request to the Malkoff M61. Its a beautiful beam but it draws 2.63 amps with my 2 lithium ion batteries. 

The SF P61 lamp that runs on 6 V is only an 80 lumen class lamp, not even in the same league. 

The Malkoff M61 is not as bright as the SF P91 lamp but given its literally 1/5th of the power consumed, and it has a "whiter" beam (higher color temp) it gives it a good run for the money.


----------



## WadeF

Has anyone tried running the M61 on a single 18650?


----------



## BigHonu

WadeF said:


> Has anyone tried running the M61 on a single 18650?



I've been running a M61 with a AW 18650 2600mah in MD2 host with no problems. EYEBALLING it, it seems just as bright as with 2 primaries. I do not have rechargeable 123s. With the two stage ring, low level is noticeably lower with the 18650 than with primaries.


----------



## FroggyTaco

WadeF said:


> Has anyone tried running the M61 on a single 18650?



Until the 18650 falls below 3.4V under load, the light output will be identical.

I would guess that 3.4V load voltage is about the same as 3.6-3.8V line voltage depending on the quality/state/condition of the cell.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

WadeF said:


> Has anyone tried running the M61 on a single 18650?



I havent run mine on anything but a 18650, its perfect... :thumbsup:


----------



## etc

So how much runtime do you gain with M61 over M60:

Example, M60 on 2x123 - 1:45 (?)
M61 on 2x123 - 2:15 (?)

30 mins runtime gain, something like that? Also might be on his site.


----------



## smokelaw1

I was also wondering about runtime on LOW. Anyone with the knowledge and skills to figure that out for me, on Primaries and on an AW 18650 (2600)


----------



## Paulinski

I'm running the M61 with two AW 18650 (2600) - (9P with extender).

ANy ideas on runtime with those?


----------



## Fooboy

So ... question to you fellow ar15 owners.

I was intrigued by the beam shots on the previous page of the M60 and M61. Which would you put in a nitrolon G2, mounted to an AR15 - M60L or M61L (when available)?

Using the M60 and M61 as baselines, seems the M60L would have more throw but M61L will likely be a balance of throwy-flood. May not have the range of the M60L but would be better for room clearing - perhaps the M61L would be better suited as it is more all purpose at the cost of some range? 

Thoughts?


----------



## pilote

pm91 said:


> Why would one get a P61 incan when you can get a Malkoff M61 or M60 variant?



...because one CAN'T get a malkoff m60/m61 variant, unless you're lucky to find them used (and want a used one), or happen to hit the site before the m61 sells out (which they do most rapidly)...


----------



## MrGman

Fooboy said:


> So ... question to you fellow ar15 owners.
> 
> I was intrigued by the beam shots on the previous page of the M60 and M61. Which would you put in a nitrolon G2, mounted to an AR15 - M60L or M61L (when available)?
> 
> Using the M60 and M61 as baselines, seems the M60L would have more throw but M61L will likely be a balance of throwy-flood. May not have the range of the M60L but would be better for room clearing - perhaps the M61L would be better suited as it is more all purpose at the cost of some range?
> 
> Thoughts?


 
I would put neither of these in a Nitrolon Plastic host because they would get hot. It is not recommended by Malkoff, has been covered many times already, you risk burning up the module because of lack of thermal transfer into the host since its a thermal insulator. Get a 6P or a Solarforce L2 host with the tape switch and put the M61 in that for relatively close range room clearing.


----------



## tsl

MrGman said:


> I would put neither of these in a Nitrolon Plastic host because they would get hot. It is not recommended by Malkoff, has been covered many times already, you risk burning up the module because of lack of thermal transfer into the host since its a thermal insulator. Get a 6P or a Solarforce L2 host with the tape switch and put the M61 in that for relatively close range room clearing.


 
Actually, Fooboy was talking about the M60L and M61L (when it becomes available). The M60L is fine for a nitrolon light according to Gene's website.


----------



## Liteskr42

Hey all,

whats the heat like on your M61s? I mean , how hot does the head/body get on your setup? Assuming you are using some 6p type variant host of Aluminum?

I ask because my setup doesnt get anything but a little warm. I have applied a cpl wraps of foil in the throat of the host but there just doesnt seem to be much heat transfer going on? I have popped out the pill and it isnt terribly warm either. Is Brass that bad of a heat conductor? or is the M61 just not running that hard so not much heat? I am wondering if it is really putting out 280-300 lumens if it isnt getting all that hot .

Thanx for your input


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Wrap the M61 module in a thin wrap of foil so that it goes into the host with a snug fit. Wrap the foil below the shoulder of the module, and do no worry about wrapping to far down as most of the heat transfer will be a the top part of the host. The M61's heavy brass with epoxy inside will transfer the heat very nicely.

Bill


----------



## MrGman

tsl said:


> Actually, Fooboy was talking about the M60L and M61L (when it becomes available). The M60L is fine for a nitrolon light according to Gene's website.


 

I just don't get it. What's the point of going to the more powerful XPG but them getting it in a lower powered version. Is it just to be able to run it in a plastic housing? If your putting a light on a rifle, don't you want all the power you can get out of it and not a current limited reduced output? The M60L was out and available for a long time, he could have that already in his G2. Why waste money to buy a an intetionally reduced power XPG? 

And yes I know that the L series will work in the plastic housings, wasn't sure that's what he really meant based on my rant above. 

If I was putting any light on a rifle for being serious about seeing things at night, it wouldn't be in a plastic housing and it wouldn't be a lower power version of anything. There are plenty of lesser power lights out there to buy without having to buy a really good one and then specifically asking it to be current limited down to something less. Why you could go on ebay and buy lots of 300 lumen rated modules that I am quite certain will give you 200 lumens or less for your money.


----------



## carrot

Brass is an *excellent* heat conductor. The real problem is that your host is not a real Surefire, so the brass heatsink is not making full contact with the body and unable to conduct heat away. 

The reason for the aluminum foil, is not because aluminum foil is magic, but because it's cheap, malleable, and metal, which makes it an excellent way to ensure a snug fit between the host and the Malkoff. You want to wrap your module tightly and neatly with aluminum foil (taking care to avoid making air pockets) until the Malkoff is snug when fully seated.

The M61 does not get as hot as you might expect but running it for 10-15 minutes should result in a warm bezel. If Malkoff says it's doing 300 lumens that's what it's doing.


----------



## carrot

Hi MrGman, you're forgetting that the M61 has a wider beam and is also more efficient, so having an M61L would result in longer runtime than the M60L as well as having a wider beam.


----------



## MrGman

carrot said:


> Hi MrGman, you're forgetting that the M61 has a wider beam and is also more efficient, so having an M61L would result in longer runtime than the M60L as well as having a wider beam.


 

Not forgetting that at all. The M61 already draws less current than the M60. Also if you keep dialing down the power that "wide" beam loses its effectivity simply because its getting dimmer and dimmer out at the fringe. So you don't have as much of a "useful" wide beam by turning down the power, so again, the question becomes what's the point? Why put a dimmer "wide beam" light on a rifle specifically, you are already getting more run time just by getting the M61?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Liteskr42 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> whats the heat like on your M61s? I mean , how hot does the head/body get on your setup? Assuming you are using some 6p type variant host of Aluminum?
> 
> I ask because my setup doesnt get anything but a little warm. I have applied a cpl wraps of foil in the throat of the host but there just doesnt seem to be much heat transfer going on? I have popped out the pill and it isnt terribly warm either. Is Brass that bad of a heat conductor? or is the M61 just not running that hard so not much heat? I am wondering if it is really putting out 280-300 lumens if it isnt getting all that hot .
> 
> Thanx for your input



Running my M61 in a MD2 for extended periods, it barely gets warm.


----------



## Liteskr42

Thanx PoliceScannerman thats what i was wondering. I get the same results. Although I know each of us percieves heat in different ways/levels of intensity just like light output , I have had so many other lights get so much hotter externally. True, I dont have this thing in a Surefire but 5mega makes pretty good stuff though I have noticed the Surefires have a tapered throat that the 5megas do not have maybe that makes a difference. 

When you guys speak of a "snug" fit how snug do you mean . With other lesser dropins I can use pretty thick aluminum from a soda can or such and it is a pretty nice fit. With the Malkoff 2 wraps of foil and it slides in with a bit of resistance but when I try the soda can strips its so tight I got scared I wasnt gonna get it out again so I removed it but maybe that is the way to go?

I do love this dropin though :twothumbs. Super tint and great all around beam pattern and just solid feeling/looking. just knowing I could throw this thing at a brick wall and know it will fire right up is so cool. I am really into reliability these days and Malkoff is top dog in this dept. by me!!!! So glad I finally got one!!! Now I am debating an M60 low as an emergency light but cant decide between LF and LL . It would be in a motorcycle kit for nitetime breakdowns or loss of headlight scenarios. what do ya all think ?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Hmm as a owner of both the LF, and LL, I would go LL. BigWaffles got 18 hours of regulation on 2 x 123. :twothumbs

While the LF would be great for up close work if your bike broke down, the LL would serve you just as well while having significantly more throw that you may need in an emergent situation, not to mention all the runtime.


----------



## Gene43

Liteskr42 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> whats the heat like on your M61s? I mean , how hot does the head/body get on your setup? Assuming you are using some 6p type variant host of Aluminum?
> 
> I ask because my setup doesnt get anything but a little warm. I have applied a cpl wraps of foil in the throat of the host but there just doesnt seem to be much heat transfer going on? I have popped out the pill and it isnt terribly warm either. Is Brass that bad of a heat conductor? or is the M61 just not running that hard so not much heat? I am wondering if it is really putting out 280-300 lumens if it isnt getting all that hot .
> 
> Thanx for your input


 
One thing about the M61 is that the XP-G has allowed efficiency to go up quite nicely. It simply does not get nearly as warm. The drive current was carefully chosen in consideration of the sweet spot between output and heat. Thermal foils and pastes are unneccessary in my opinion. Also I am confident in the fact that it is producing 260 lumens out the front (past the lens and all). It wil produce in excess of 280 without a lens/bezel. Momentary output, at turn on, exceeds 330 lumens in all the M61's I have tested.

Thanks, Gene


----------



## jaundice

Gene (or anyone else):

Does the lower heat of the M61 allow its use in a G2 with Nitrolon bezel? Or should I wait for the M61L or LL?

Thanks,

-John


----------



## Liteskr42

Thanx for responding Gene!! Glad to see you are feeling well enough to check in here at CPF!!! 

I didnt mean to come across as negative about the output. Just curious as to others experience/opinions on theirs. I can tell output is well over 250 in comparison to other XPGs I have . Whet makes the M61 better for me is the fantastic big smooth hotspot. when tailstanding the lite and using ceiling bounce to light up a room I am in the M61 is far superior to the narrower beams of other lights I have and puts out more overall light in the room . The fact the circuitry has been fine tuned to balance output and heat mgmt is very nice. This really is a well thought out product


----------



## Robert_M

The Malkoff website makes it clear it can only be operated for up to 15 minutes continuously in plastic lights ... if the head is metal then heat is not an issue.



jaundice said:


> Gene (or anyone else):
> 
> Does the lower heat of the M61 allow its use in a G2 with Nitrolon bezel? Or should I wait for the M61L or LL?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -John


----------



## Gene43

jaundice said:


> Gene (or anyone else):
> 
> Does the lower heat of the M61 allow its use in a G2 with Nitrolon bezel? Or should I wait for the M61L or LL?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -John


 
I honestly don't know. Things have been such a whirlwind lately and I haven't had the time to do any testing. A simple, nondestructive (and non scientific) test would be to run one in an all nitrolon light for about 5 continuous minutes, pop it out immediately and check the temp of the dropin. If its not too hot to hold, repeat for 10 minutes... repeat for 15 minutes... 20 minutes...etc.

If you manage to get up to 30 minutes, I would call it good to go in an all nitrolon setup.


----------



## Gene43

Liteskr42 said:


> Thanx for responding Gene!! Glad to see you are feeling well enough to check in here at CPF!!!
> 
> I didnt mean to come across as negative about the output. Just curious as to others experience/opinions on theirs. I can tell output is well over 250 in comparison to other XPGs I have . Whet makes the M61 better for me is the fantastic big smooth hotspot. when tailstanding the lite and using ceiling bounce to light up a room I am in the M61 is far superior to the narrower beams of other lights I have and puts out more overall light in the room . The fact the circuitry has been fine tuned to balance output and heat mgmt is very nice. This really is a well thought out product


 
No problems, I always want honest, unadulterated critiques of my stuff. I want to know the good, the bad, and the indifferent. That is one reason why I don't post a whole lot. Some people won't vent as objectively if they think I am actively involved in a thread. Also I don't want to give the impression that I am trying to lead opinions/discussions of my stuff.


----------



## dcycleman

It'll be nice when these are available. I've been sitting on an orange MD2 for probly three months now waiting for a high low switch and the M61.(not bitching, just eagerly awaiting!)


----------



## MrGman

This is the difference in power draw of the M60 to M61 and the net difference in power consumption shown in percentage for the M61. I would not say that the M61 at 4 watts of power consumption should be run very long in a G2 with no heatsinking, In theory you could say you would be able to run it 18% longer than the regular M60. So a 10 minute run could be 12 to 13 minutes. For mine of course I would still prefer an Aluminum host or use the G2 in the dead of winter some where, where it would be a moot point when its like 7 degrees F out or colder.

Measured directly using a DC powersupply that defaults to voltage shown and an accurate ammeter in series to each module. 

---------M60----M60--------M61-----M61-----The
Volts-Amps--Watts------Amps--Watts---Difference
4.5----0.91-----4.10--------0.81----3.65-----11.0%
6.0----0.77-----4.62--------0.67----4.02-----13.0%
7.5----0.64-----4.80--------0.53----3.98-----17.2%
9.0----0.55-----4.95--------0.45----4.05-----18.2%


----------



## maxspeeds

Gene, glad to see you back! Hopefully you are feeling better. Now, the big question, when do you expect M61's to be available on your website? :twothumbs


----------



## Chevy-SS

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Hmm as a owner of both the LF, and LL, I would go LL.....




What does "LL" and "LF" mean?

thanks


----------



## Owen

Low Low(as in lower than low)
Low Flood


----------



## youreacrab

Owen said:


> Low Low(as in lower than low)
> Low Flood



L could also stand for Long (runtime), depending how half-full your glass is.


----------



## bullfrog

mmmmmmmmm M61LL :tinfoil:

Thats what I'm waiting for!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

So with the M61 just getting warm on long runs, does this mean it is operating at near 100% efficiency? With little to no power being wasted as heat? 

I just got back from a walk w the dog. This M61 can throw out some light. :rock:


----------



## Fooboy

MrGman said:


> I just don't get it. What's the point of going to the more powerful XPG but them getting it in a lower powered version. Is it just to be able to run it in a plastic housing? If your putting a light on a rifle, don't you want all the power you can get out of it and not a current limited reduced output? The M60L was out and available for a long time, he could have that already in his G2. Why waste money to buy a an intetionally reduced power XPG?
> 
> And yes I know that the L series will work in the plastic housings, wasn't sure that's what he really meant based on my rant above.
> 
> If I was putting any light on a rifle for being serious about seeing things at night, it wouldn't be in a plastic housing and it wouldn't be a lower power version of anything. There are plenty of lesser power lights out there to buy without having to buy a really good one and then specifically asking it to be current limited down to something less. Why you could go on ebay and buy lots of 300 lumen rated modules that I am quite certain will give you 200 lumens or less for your money.



Fair questions, here are my reasons.

1. No real difference in cost between M60 and M61. So ... estimate no difference in cost between M60L and M61L.

2. XPG gives you higher output and longer run time at lower heat. 

3. XPG gives you a bit more flood, which is nice. I don't mind losing a little range to have more spill. M61L would be better indoors at close range over a concentrated hot spot in M60L. 

4. Nitrolon G2 is 20% lighter than 6P, which isnt much but makes a difference out on the end of a barrel (leverage). It's a tough light as well, it's a SF and can take abuse. Other AR15 parts are plastic ... handgaurds, stock, pistol grip, pmags .

5. I would rather have longer run time than scorching output. Even the M60L is 100+ OTF lumens. I really have my rifle as disaster insurance ... grab it and go. I would rather have 5+* hour runtime at 170 lumens* then 260 lumens for 2 hours.

*=total guestimates.

Let's reduce that assumption and just say M61L ends up being 150 OTF lumens. Don't we agree that is completely adequate for defensive light? Heck, it was 2 years ago when the L1 Cree was like the baddest tactical light ever at 65 lumens.

Personally - I'd wager that the M61L is going to get a notable boost in brightness and blow the doors of the M60L in runtime. What's not to love!?

anyways ...

I'm actually removing/selling an X300 to go the G2 route. prefer the momentary on a G2 over the rocker switch on x300. Plus the mount I have lets me remove G2 from its mount rather easily - so I can have my light free from rifle and mount and back to my hands if needed - within a minute and without tools.


----------



## MrGman

I could see all that on a handgun, where you would primarily have it for in home (indoor) defense. I can't see that for a rifle. Once you move away from the white walls of the indoor arena to the outside world, even if its just across your own back yard, you suddenly see the need for all the light you can get, pointed in the outbound direction with maximum spill. I have been trying to capture that in photos and videos for years. Nothing compares to what the eyes see however. If you live on a small property and distance is never going to be an issue then I question the use of an AR 15. If you have a larger property to look after and might want to defend a perimeter say for example where the front fence is 50 yards away, then I could see the rifle and definitely the brighter light.

Plus the reality of it is, you are never going to be in a 5 hour long gun battle or stand off where the light will be on. Just isn't going to happen. If you really need that for some type of defensive situation, once you get to the point where you are lighting up would be "targets" its going to be over in minutes, one way or the other. Or the light is going to be turned off so you can change position and back on, either way, its not going to see even 2 hours on time let alone 5. 

Plus the M61 on low mode in a Malkoff host is still very useably bright for indoor work back in the white walled house, and that will give you a lot more than 5 hours. Much moreso than the M60. 

The plastic handguard on an AR 15 is there specifically to insulate you from barrel heat. The opposite is what's needed for a good LED. But if that's what you got then the future M61 (if he makes them) would be a more reliable way to go. I would put it at 170 to 180 lumens.

It would be really nice on the ower lleft side of a Glock 35. 

Anyway, if it works for you, enjoy.


----------



## Fooboy

No, I appreciate the feedback.  

I live in the burbs of a mid-sized city but right next to the semi-country as well. I just want a light that that does it all for a bug out rifle. 

I agree, I won't need it on a rifle for 5 hours in a firefight - lol. It's more if a katrina situation/disaster, i'd like that runtime at expense of some brightness.

Plus, I can yank it off and still have a nice emergency light.

*anyways ... sorry to side track. Back to the M61.*


----------



## arewethereyetdad

Sorry to be late to this party, but Gene just referred me to this thread. I have had a couple of great M60's but it sounds like now we're evolving to the M61. I just have a couple of questions for the audience - sorry, I'm too lazy to read the other 834 posts:

1. Is the M61 the natural successor to the M60?
2. Is it the ideal drop-in for a Surefire 6P?
3. Is it as bright and white and far-throwing as the M60?
4. Is it still made of solid brass like the M60, and do I have to add foil or whatever (I saw some comment about this in my quick perusal of the thread)?
5. Will it be approx. the same price as the M60?

Thanks in advance, whomever may be tackling these questions. :twothumbs


----------



## kyhunter1

www.malkoffdevices.com 



arewethereyetdad said:


> Sorry to be late to this party, but Gene just referred me to this thread. I have had a couple of great M60's but it sounds like now we're evolving to the M61. I just have a couple of questions for the audience - sorry, I'm too lazy to read the other 834 posts:
> 
> 1. Is the M61 the natural successor to the M60?
> 2. Is it the ideal drop-in for a Surefire 6P?
> 3. Is it as bright and white and far-throwing as the M60?
> 4. Is it still made of solid brass like the M60, and do I have to add foil or whatever (I saw some comment about this in my quick perusal of the thread)?
> 5. Will it be approx. the same price as the M60?
> 
> Thanks in advance, whomever may be tackling these questions. :twothumbs


----------



## carrot

arewethereyetdad said:


> Sorry to be late to this party, but Gene just referred me to this thread. I have had a couple of great M60's but it sounds like now we're evolving to the M61. I just have a couple of questions for the audience - sorry, I'm too lazy to read the other 834 posts:
> 
> 1. Is the M61 the natural successor to the M60?
> 2. Is it the ideal drop-in for a Surefire 6P?
> 3. Is it as bright and white and far-throwing as the M60?
> 4. Is it still made of solid brass like the M60, and do I have to add foil or whatever (I saw some comment about this in my quick perusal of the thread)?
> 5. Will it be approx. the same price as the M60?
> 
> Thanks in advance, whomever may be tackling these questions. :twothumbs


Hey Troy :wave:
1. Yes, it is the natural successor to both the M60 and M60F, potentially also the M30 and M30F due to its higher input range (3.2-9.0v)
2. Yes
3. Brighter, warmer, and floodier, but still very good throw
4. Yes, the body is exactly the same. If you had to add foil before you will still have to. If you didn't, you won't.5
5. Yes, but if you use an MD2 or similar windowless host you will need to buy the $4 window kit.


----------



## bullfrog

carrot said:


> 1. Yes, it is the natural successor to both the M60 and M60F, potentially also the M30 and M30F due to its higher input range (3.2-9.0v)



Does anyone know if Gene said he will not be producing an "M31?" 

I ask as I sometimes enjoy running my M30 on two AAs...


----------



## carrot

That is a question that should be asked of Gene, not me, as it is pure speculation on my part that the M61 replaces the M30.


----------



## arewethereyetdad

carrot, thanks brother! I read the website but couldn't find anything on the M61. Your post answered all my questions. :thumbsup:


----------



## JNewell

arewethereyetdad said:


> carrot, thanks brother! I read the website but couldn't find anything on the M61. Your post answered all my questions. :thumbsup:


 
It's currently listed on the M60 page. :thinking:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

JNewell said:


> It's currently listed on the M60 page. :thinking:



You have to understand AWTYD, he is, uh.... A lil slow.


----------



## arewethereyetdad

JNewell said:


> It's currently listed on the M60 page. :thinking:



Oh, that's logical. Let's put a discussion of the M61 inside the M60 page. :shrug: :sick2:


----------



## FroggyTaco

bullfrog said:


> Does anyone know if Gene said he will not be producing an "M31?"
> 
> I ask as I sometimes enjoy running my M30 on two AAs...



If he builds anything, think M21 for people just like you. Otherwise the M61 fills *a* *lot* of shoes in his line-up.




arewethereyetdad said:


> Oh, that's logical. Let's put a discussion of the M61 inside the M60 page. :shrug: :sick2:



Well it is a M60 series drop-in. 

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m61-mod-to-fit-surefire-p-7.html


----------



## Kid9P

Troy,

You definetely want one of these. I got mine a few days ago from a fellow CPF'r. Dropped it in my LEEF 2x18650 body, clicked it on.

I felt like a little kid on Xmas, huge grin on my face 
Beam, output and runtimes.....this is the best of the best IMHO.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

arewethereyetdad said:


> Oh, that's logical. Let's put a discussion of the M61 inside the M60 page. :shrug: :sick2:



Hi Troy, yes Gene has added the M61 to the M60 page. He only has one model of the M61, and I guess it fits there for awhile until he has more going on with the M61. http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/dropins-to-fit-surefire-m60s-to-fit-surefire-c-1_14_18.html 

I played with two of his M61's at 4 7's party. The beam profile was a little wider in his C2 than in his orange MD2, due to smaller window of MD2. Not quite the thrower of the M60 but a nicer beam profile. Gene puts a lot of thought into his modules and had to do some tweaking with the M60 driver because of the very low vf of the XP-G LED. Looks like it can be run with a single 18650 LiIon. I look for upgrades using the XP-G down the road.

Bill


----------



## arewethereyetdad

Froggytaco, great link - thank you!
Bill, thanks as well.
Kid, I agree. 

I'm sold.


----------



## Kestrel

Since Rat6P came up with the M30 / *2xAA* NiMH combo,
and GreyShark came up with the M60LL / *2xAA* Alkaline combo,
and 'yours truly' first demonstrated the M30 / *2xC* & *3xC* Alkaline combo,
and etc gave us the first review of an M30 / *3xAA* combo - including CPF's highest performance ever carbon-zinc cell demonstration,

I'm pretty curious, has anybody tried their M61 on 2xAA (NiMH) yet?
I'm wondering if it would be at all useful on that low of a voltage.


----------



## scot

Hey Kestrel you got me thinking, so tonight I grabbed my MD3, took out the 18500's and put two Duraloops in. I have no light meter, so I bounce the beam off the ceiling and look at an eye chart that's on the wall, sometimes comparing different lights.

Tonight with the MD3 and Malkoff M60, the bounce was very comparable to level 3 on a Surefire U2. (If level 1 is the lowest and 6 is the highest. U2 with 18650)

MD3 with M61 and Duraloops, at least as bright as level 4 on the U2!! I was shocked...very useful beam with plenty of light. Curious how long the AA's will run on this setup. Definitely not a very scientific test yet useful for my needs.

Try it, you may be surprised!!


----------



## Kestrel

scot said:


> Tonight with the MD3 and Malkoff M60, the bounce was very comparable to level 3 on a Surefire U2. (If level 1 is the lowest and 6 is the highest. U2 with 18650)
> MD3 with M61 and Duraloops, at least as bright as level 4 on the U2!! I was shocked...very useful beam with plenty of light.


 
Interesting, so maybe ~10-20 lumens from the M60/2xAA, and maybe ~25-50 lumens from the M61/2xAA. I was hoping for better from the lower Vf M61, I guess the M30 with its boost circuit still just buries it for output (~110 lumens) at this low of a voltage. Still, the M61 could be usable in a 3xCR123 host (such as yours) w/ 2xAA in emergencies. I wonder if it would do better on 2xAA Alkaline, as the low current draw would let the slightly higher initial voltage of the alkaline chemistry hold up a little better. :thinking:

I guess I'll still be :candle: for an M*2*1.  



scot said:


> Try it, you may be surprised!!


LOL, well, with no M61, I will have a difficult time indeed - I'm still happy with my M60 for now. 

Thanks for the test, much appreciated.


----------



## etc

Yes, would be interesting to see M61 on 2xAA and if there is a M61L and M61LL, that too would be informative. I have a feeling that's going to outperform M60* on 2xAA by an even greater margin than 123s or Li-Ions.


----------



## kyhunter1

Im interested too. Anybody do a full runtime with the M61 on 2AA yet? Im trying to justify buying a Dereelight Javelin, or Solarforce AA host to have around since you can get AA cells most anywhere. I still prefer 123 cells hands down. 





etc said:


> Yes, would be interesting to see M61 on 2xAA and if there is a M61L and M61LL, that too would be informative. I have a feeling that's going to outperform M60* on 2xAA by an even greater margin than 123s or Li-Ions.


----------



## JNewell

Can't help on the runtime, but I just got a pair of the VME heads and put an M61 on top of an old E2D incan. Wow! :twothumbs That's a lot of light out of a very slim package. The black ano is a very close match, too. (BTW, I filled the engraving on the front with some flat black model paint - let it mostly dry then scraped it clean with a plastic card, leaving only paint in the letters and none on the bezel - almost makes the lettering disappear.)


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Sweet, glad to hear the VME head works!! With the M61 running so cool, any slim host can handle it! :thumbsup:


----------



## kyhunter1

I like the VME heads too. The M61 in a E2D body with the VME head, is a awesome combo. Since the lettering on mine was not recessed any, the sharpie marker trick worked just fine for me. My lettering is mostly subdued now. 



JNewell said:


> Can't help on the runtime, but I just got a pair of the VME heads and put an M61 on top of an old E2D incan. Wow! :twothumbs That's a lot of light out of a very slim package. The black ano is a very close match, too. (BTW, I filled the engraving on the front with some flat black model paint - let it mostly dry then scraped it clean with a plastic card, leaving only paint in the letters and none on the bezel - almost makes the lettering disappear.)


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*Re: The Malkoff M61 on 2AAs*



etc said:


> Yes, would be interesting to see M61 on 2xAA and if there is a M61L and M61LL, that too would be informative. I have a feeling that's going to outperform M60* on 2xAA by an even greater margin than 123s or Li-Ions.



I'm a strictly AA flashaholic--1xAA, 2xAA, and 3xAA. Below 3.4V, the M61 run on direct drive; output will be diminished. if you want your M61 regulated to full power, you'll need to use 3xAAs. Not even nickel-zinc AA cells, at 1.6 to 1.7V each under load, will keep an M61 regulated. Well, maybe for 10 or 20 minutes.


----------



## kyhunter1

*Re: The Malkoff M61 on 2AAs*

Would still like to see a runtime plot on 2AA and 3AA to see how it stacks up with these cells. Where are you at Selfbuilt? Maybe Gene will make a M21 for us single cell 123 primary and AA lovers. 



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> I'm a strictly AA flashaholic--1xAA, 2xAA, and 3xAA. Below 3.4V, the M61 run on direct drive; output will be diminished. if you want your M61 regulated to full power, you'll need to use 3xAAs. Not even nickel-zinc AA cells, at 1.6 to 1.7V each under load, will keep an M61 regulated. Well, maybe for 10 or 20 minutes.


----------



## Kestrel

*Re: The Malkoff M61 on 2AAs*



kyhunter1 said:


> Maybe Gene will make a M21 for us single cell 123 primary and AA lovers.


That's the thing - now that an M30 really isn't needed anymore, an XP-G module optimized for 2.5 Vin would be just about perfect for both 1xCR123 and 2x AA NiMH. IIRC I think the Dereelight Javelin XP-G low-voltage drop-in does ~270 lumens (initial) from 2xAA NiMH, if Gene offers an M21 that is rated up to 3.7Vin, I will most definitely purchase one immediately.


----------



## Max_Power

Now that the neutral white XPGs are supposedly available, I would sure like to obtain a Wildcat with 3 or 4 of those in the head. And of course some neutral white M61/M21 drop-ins.


----------



## JNewell

*Re: The Malkoff M61 on 2AAs*



Kestrel said:


> That's the thing - now that an M30 really isn't needed anymore, an XP-G module optimized for 2.5 Vin would be just about perfect for both 1xCR123 and 2x AA NiMH. IIRC I think the Dereelight Javelin XP-G low-voltage drop-in does ~270 lumens (initial) from 2xAA NiMH, if Gene offers an M21 that is rated up to 3.7Vin, I will most definitely purchase one immediately.


 
Yes, agree - and I would *love* to put one of those on an E1e body that's currently wearing a KL1 and install the Malkoff in a VME head!


----------



## Fooboy

more beamshots!


----------



## Brian321

I dont feel like reading 29 pages of this thread so im just going to ask, If this has been covered i am sorry. How does the M61 compare to the M60? I currently own a M61 but would like to purchase a M60 but i kind of feel like im going backwards. What do you guys think?


----------



## Vesper

Brian321 said:


> I dont feel like reading 29 pages of this thread so im just going to ask, If this has been covered i am sorry. How does the M61 compare to the M60? I currently own a M61 but would like to purchase a M60 but i kind of feel like im going backwards. What do you guys think?



It's been covered many times. Do some quick reading and you'll find the answer on most pages of this thread including beamshots and videos.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*Re: The Malkoff M61 on 2AAs*



kyhunter1 said:


> Would still like to see a runtime plot on 2AA and 3AA to see how it stacks up with these cells. Where are you at Selfbuilt? Maybe Gene will make a M21 for us single cell 123 primary and AA lovers.


Was this question addressed to me? I'm not on Selfbuilt and don't know what it is.


----------



## BigHonu

Brian321 said:


> I dont feel like reading 29 pages of this thread so im just going to ask, If this has been covered i am sorry. How does the M61 compare to the M60? I currently own a M61 but would like to purchase a M60 but i kind of feel like im going backwards. What do you guys think?



In favor of the M61: slightly brighter (25+ lumens), runs longer (30+ minutes), the driver is regulated from a lower voltage giving better compatibility with 18650's for longer runtimes in regulation, and much better beam profile, IMHO for anything up to around 100 feet or so in most conditions.

In favor of the M60: Can run for an extended time on 18650's at a reduced output, slightly better throw, comes in 'warm' tinted versions, and doesnt require the purchase of the lens kit for use in the MD2.

To me the M61 is a better package for how I use a light most of the time. If you need maximum throw, then the M60 may be a better choice.

If you are looking to get another Malkoff, I would suggest M60L. Good output for general use (140 lumens) with great runtime on primaries, and outstanding runtime on an 18650. There were 8 in stock this morning when I checked.


----------



## JNewell

Good summary from BigHonu. When all is said and done and the lights go out, the M60 has slightly better throw and slightly less spill. IMO the M61 is a very good compromise between the M60 and M60F.

AFAIK, the M60 is disco'd, so if you wanted one, you'll need to buy one on the seconary market.



BigHonu said:


> In favor of the M61: slightly brighter (25+ lumens), runs longer (30+ minutes), the driver is regulated from a lower voltage giving better compatibility with 18650's for longer runtimes in regulation, and much better beam profile, IMHO for anything up to around 100 feet or so in most conditions.
> 
> In favor of the M60: Can run for an extended time on 18650's at a reduced output, slightly better throw, comes in 'warm' tinted versions, and doesnt require the purchase of the lens kit for use in the MD2.
> 
> To me the M61 is a better package for how I use a light most of the time. If you need maximum throw, then the M60 may be a better choice.
> 
> If you are looking to get another Malkoff, I would suggest M60L. Good output for general use (140 lumens) with great runtime on primaries, and outstanding runtime on an 18650. There were 8 in stock this morning when I checked.


----------



## Brian321

JNewell said:


> Good summary from BigHonu. When all is said and done and the lights go out, the M60 has slightly better throw and slightly less spill. IMO the M61 is a very good compromise between the M60 and M60F.
> 
> AFAIK, the M60 is disco'd, so if you wanted one, you'll need to buy one on the seconary market.


 
Yea i know where i can get a M60 but im just not sure if i should buy one or wait to get another M61. I have a SF host but it needs a drop in.


----------



## JNewell

Brian321 said:


> Yea i know where i can get a M60 but im just not sure if i should buy one or wait to get another M61. I have a SF host but it needs a drop in.


 
I've been kicking that around myself. Honestly, IMO, the additional throw on the M60 is not sufficient to outweigh the other benefits of the M61, so I'm waiting until they come back into stock to buy at least one more.


----------



## BigHonu

Just as a point of information to those wondering about the M61 on 2xAA:

I tried running the M61 in a MD head on 2xAA Eneloops on a 3x123 MD body very briefly.

The cells were charged a couple of months ago, and I did not check them prior to using them. Just plopped them in.

Output was WAY down. Almost like running the M61 with 2-stage ring on low with an 18650. Possibly a little brighter than that. Could very well be that the cells were not up to snuff so I'm going to try again sometime this weekend with cells fresh off the charger, or maybe even a couple of lithium AAs.

Sorry, no runtime information.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

M61 needs 3.4+ volts for regulation, otherwise it will want to run direct drive. You are supplying 2.8 volts or so to the driver. 

The M30 is a voltage regulated devise and can boost two NiMh AA's quite well, up to about 130 lumens or so. If the M61 was set up with the same circuit as the M30, you could have fairly high output, no doubt higher than the M30. If the M61 was set up with a constant current boost driver, then you could get full power out of two AA's, drawing about 2+ amps from them. The M30 circuit is much kinder to two AA's, but with less output, drawing about 1 amp.

Bill


----------



## jimmy1970

I love all this M61 chat, but please Gene, make some more!! It is all getting a bit::tired:


----------



## shao.fu.tzer

Woohoo! My m61 is coming in!!!!


----------



## etc

Brian321 said:


> I dont feel like reading 29 pages of this thread so im just going to ask, If this has been covered i am sorry. How does the M61 compare to the M60? I currently own a M61 but would like to purchase a M60 but i kind of feel like im going backwards. What do you guys think?



M61 vs. M60

1. ~ 13% More lumens
2. ~13% Better runtime
3. A bit more flood, a bit less throw.
4. Different tint, more yellow-green than pure white with a tint of blue.

Not sure about the percentages, but it's in the ballpark.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

I followed suit and put my M61 in a VME head on a E2D body, what a pocket rocket!!


----------



## JNewell

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I followed suit and put my M61 in a VME head on a E2D body, what a pocket rocket!!



I did that a week or two ago. Omigosh, what a great light! I filled the lettering on the face of the bezel with flat black hobby paint, btw, and it's now invisible.


----------



## Mikellen

I'd really like an M61 with a warm tint. Has Gene Malkoff made any mention of an M61W being possibly made into production?


----------



## GarageBoy

XPGs in warm aren't avail yet


----------



## Viper715

I'm pretty sure they are at least in limited quantaties. I have seen a sale thread for bare XPG R4 in neutral and warm as well as Nailbender has a P60 with XPG R4 in all flavors.


----------



## GarageBoy

That was fast
How does it compare to the quark 123^2 on turbo?


----------



## shao.fu.tzer

GarageBoy said:


> That was fast
> How does it compare to the quark 123^2 on turbo?



I don't know but the runtime/lumens/draw ratings on these two lights don't match up.

Quark 123^2 on turbo - 230 lumens for 1.8 hours (990ma)
Malkoff M61 w 2 CR123a - 260 lumens for 2 hours (650ma)

I wish I had a Quark 123^2 to check it out against.
I do have a Mini 123 and though and the beam profiles are surprisingly
similar with the Mini having a larger hotspot. The M61 is quite a bit brighter
though, but not as much as you'd think. Going to write a review and do some beamshots later.


----------



## shao.fu.tzer

Mikellen said:


> I'd really like an M61 with a warm tint. Has Gene Malkoff made any mention of an M61W being possibly made into production?



To me the tint is very warm. It makes every one of my XR-Es look downright purple next it.

Shao


----------



## GarageBoy

shao.fu.tzer said:


> I don't know but the runtime/lumens/draw ratings on these two lights don't match up.
> 
> Quark 123^2 on turbo - 230 lumens for 1.8 hours (990ma)
> Malkoff M61 w 2 CR123a - 260 lumens for 2 hours (650ma)
> 
> I wish I had a Quark 123^2 to check it out against.
> I do have a Mini 123 and though and the beam profiles are surprisingly
> similar with the Mini having a larger hotspot. The M61 is quite a bit brighter
> though, but not as much as you'd think. Going to write a review and do some beamshots later.



The 123^2 is 990ma to the emitter
The Malkoff is supposed to be an amp
My multi meter's amp meter blew a fuse, but the hot spot on the quark is hotter


----------



## kyhunter1

Wander when Gene will have more M61's in stock? Seems like an eternity since the first batch was released. I was lucky to tag one the first time around. The M61 is my favorite reflectored drop in to date. :twothumbs Im now holding out for a M61 in a low voltage option. Maybe as low as 2v and as high as 6v with good regulation. Is it possible?


----------



## Kestrel

kyhunter1 said:


> Im now holding out for a M61 in a low voltage option. Maybe as low as 2v and as high as 6v with good regulation. Is it possible?


I sure hope so, I'd buy one in a heartbeat. 
Edit: It *should* be possible, the XP-G Dereelight Javelin P60 drop-in does 250 lumens from 2xAA, over twice what the (?XR-E/XP-E?) M30 did on that low of a voltage. If I could get a comparable Malkoff with that dandy new reflector, I'd be all over it.


----------



## damn_hammer

I've had the M61 for a few weeks, and am very happy with it. I would love to see a M61w using the new XPG neutral R4 so I could drop it in a Camo MD2 I've been wanting to pick up for camping. That MD2 is sweet looking.


----------



## Max_Power

damn_hammer said:


> I've had the M61 for a few weeks, and am very happy with it. I would love to see a M61w using the new XPG neutral R4 so I could drop it in a Camo MD2 I've been wanting to pick up for camping. That MD2 is sweet looking.



Why would you want a camo MD2 for hiking? If you drop it you won't be able to see it!

Yes, they are beautiful. If I buy another MD2, it will be another camo one.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Max_Power said:


> Why would you want a camo MD2 for hiking? If you drop it you won't be able to see it!
> 
> Yes, they are beautiful. If I buy another MD2, it will be another camo one.



It wiould be easy to find if he dropped it with the light on! 

+1, love my camo MD2, but my EMS orange MD2 is my baby. :kiss:


----------



## NightKids

Will the M61 work with this surefire flashlight or do I have to buy the LED version?

http://cgi.ebay.com/SureFire-6P-Ori...ewItemQQptZUS_Flashlights?hash=item335baca242


----------



## damn_hammer

NightKids said:


> Will the M61 work with this surefire flashlight or do I have to buy the LED version?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/SureFire-6P-Ori...ewItemQQptZUS_Flashlights?hash=item335baca242




It doesn't have to be the LED version, that should work fine. Excerpt from Malkoff website regarding the M61 compatibility:

"It was designed specifically for use in Malkoff MD2, Elzetta ZFL-M60, and SureFire 6P, 6Z, C2, M2 and G2 flashlights. "


----------



## JNewell

damn_hammer said:


> It doesn't have to be the LED version, that should work fine. Excerpt from Malkoff website regarding the M61 compatibility:
> 
> "It was designed specifically for use in Malkoff MD2, Elzetta ZFL-M60, and SureFire 6P, 6Z, C2, M2 and G2 flashlights. "



Ditto, and I'd add that there's an argument in favor of buying that one rather than the 6P LED version, which is: why pay the extra amount for the LED version and its LED/reflector assembly if you're just going to take it out and put it in a drawer? Yeah, I know, you could sell it, but you'll get short dollars for it. Of course, you could also buy the 6P (or Z2 or C2 or other suitable host) used and save some money...whatever suits your needs and budget. But the light you linked to will work very well.


----------



## benh

M61s are in stock right now on Malkoff's website. Better hurry.


----------



## 021411

FINALLY!! Got the email as well.  Gene has 50+ units in stock at the time of this post.


----------



## bullfrog

COME AND GET EM BOYS!!!

Had to pick up another LL as well - what a steal


----------



## BigHonu

Going fast! Down to 40


----------



## miteemike3

Just ordered mine :twothumbs


----------



## BigHonu

MD2 owners, don't forget the lens kit as well!


----------



## txgp17

29 Units in Stock at time of post.

There were 75 before I placed my order. The "in stock" notification hit my inbox at 06:38.

22 Units in Stock @ 7:08 PM EST.

16 Units in Stock @ 7:13 PM EST.

8 Units in Stock @ 7:18 PM EST.

1 Units in Stock @ 7:23 PM EST.

0 Units in Stock @ 7:24 PM EST.


----------



## 021411

It's amazing how fast these things are selling. I'm clicking refresh every once in a while and the number keeps dropping.


----------



## tundratrader

Got my order in!


----------



## benh

There were 64 in stock when I made my post above.

Talk about a product that is in high demand.


----------



## Ronin

Still 5 left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Got mine


----------



## Alberta-Blue

1 left!!


----------



## tundratrader

Gone!


----------



## 021411

I got my notification email at 1737 hrs CST. It's 10 minutes shy of one hour with this post. Dang that was fast!


----------



## jimmy1970

I give up! I will just wait and buy one the M61 tint lottery losers that will appear at MarketPlace soon! 

James....


----------



## NightKids

Sorry guys I think I was one of the last people to grab one! Damn they went fast I was pretty nervous! haha

What do you guys reckon is the best host for the M61? I was sure I was gonna get a 6P but then I found out that it doesn't have a clicky and I would have to buy a clicky seperately. 

I would prefer the whole flashlight to be Surefire though since I'm paying so much for one. 

So what do you guys recommend?


----------



## Ronin

Pick up a 6P with a clicky installed and bored from ElectronGuru over in the custom section. One stop shopping!


----------



## BigHonu

MD2 by Malkoff works pretty well as it was designed for the drop-ins. You will have to buy the lens kit to use the M61.


----------



## FrankW438

I guess I was just barely quick enough. Do you know how hard it is to order from Gene's website with a smartphone when you're _*in a hurry? *_

Thanks for putting some more out for us, Gene. Keep 'em rollin', as I am sure there are more people waiting!

-- Frank


----------



## Noctis

Only 75? Pitiful.


----------



## BigHonu

Noctis said:


> Only 75? Pitiful.



Better than nothing at all.

Actually a pretty good feat considering Gene had an appendectomy done not too long ago.


----------



## benh

He's one guy, building them (I believe) by hand. And he recently had an appendectomy.

I understand that he's working on ramping up mass production of the M61, but is not quite there yet.

Cut him a little slack. I'd imagine that he's as interested (perhaps more interested) as any of us in ramping up production to meet demand, since this is, you know, his means of income.

In other news, I think that the MD2 with hi/lo ring will be an ideal M61 host. I should be finding out soon. My first M61 ended up in an Electronguru 6P. This one will end up in a MD2.


----------



## pwatcher

NightKids said:


> Sorry guys I think I was one of the last people to grab one! Damn they went fast I was pretty nervous! haha
> 
> What do you guys reckon is the best host for the M61? I was sure I was gonna get a 6P but then I found out that it doesn't have a clicky and I would have to buy a clicky seperately.
> 
> I would prefer the whole flashlight to be Surefire though since I'm paying so much for one.
> 
> So what do you guys recommend?


this would do it: http://www.surefire.com/6P-Defender

maybe put a WTB on marketplace, or wait for someone to offer theirs up. of course you could buy new, or get a clicky tailcap for a regular 6p or C2.


----------



## merdock69

Geez, been on the notify list for 8 weeks and missed the email by 1.5 hours. (what's worse is that even if I had gotten it close to the send time I would have only had 10 minutes to grab one....) *Gene needs to raise his prices to disourage frivolous buying by his customers...*


----------



## bullfrog

Just amazing.

When I ordered a couple with about 70 units left I honestly thought this would hold CPF over for a while... I guess I was wrong


----------



## bullettproof

*I bought 10 of them*:twothumbs


----------



## bullfrog

Noctis said:


> Only 75? Pitiful.



Seriously? 

I'm hoping thats a poor attempt at sarcasm :shakehead


----------



## benh

10 M61s? Holy smokes. That's nearly $600 worth of dropins. 

I'm really curious. What will you do with 10 of them? Light up 8 city blocks?


----------



## NightKids

bullettproof said:


> *I bought 10 of them*:twothumbs



CPF I think we have a problem...


----------



## thebeans

bullettproof said:


> *I bought 10 of them*:twothumbs



Wanna sell one??


----------



## JNewell

bullettproof said:


> *I bought 10 of them*:twothumbs


 
Wow. There were 70 something in inventory when I got the message and went to the product page. I already had one so I left them all there, remembering the trauma and howling we saw last time. Congrats to you, sir!!! lovecpf


----------



## NightKids

thebeans said:


> Wanna sell one??


 
Hmmm when you buy something that's reasonably rare like this, do you sell it for cheaper/same price or a higher price? That is the question...

I paid US$35 international shipping... OUCH that hurt!


----------



## jabe1

I didn't even get my notification e-mail! :shakehead


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Hey guys, dont feed the Troll! :thumbsdow

Congrats to all the new owners of the M61, youre gonna love it!!! :twothumbs


----------



## dwminer

Well once again Gene's mean machine killed my order for two M61’s. I had two in my shopping cart, filled out all the required information but was to slow. How frustrating. Maybe the fourth time will be a charm. 
Dave


----------



## Vesper

I love it when Gene comes out with new stuff. This is always fun to watch.  I'm cool with waiting - I'm looking forward to trying out my new m61 on a warm summer night (and hopefully not summer 2011 - doh!)


----------



## carrot

This reminds me of a Ganzaa...


----------



## Noctis

benh said:


> He's one guy, building them (I believe) by hand. And he recently had an appendectomy.
> 
> I understand that he's working on ramping up mass production of the M61, but is not quite there yet.
> 
> Cut him a little slack. I'd imagine that he's as interested (perhaps more interested) as any of us in ramping up production to meet demand, since this is, you know, his means of income.
> 
> In other news, I think that the MD2 with hi/lo ring will be an ideal M61 host. I should be finding out soon. My first M61 ended up in an Electronguru 6P. This one will end up in a MD2.


I'm just kinda annoyed at the idea. You hear all about his drop-ins in every other topic, somebody else tells you that there's going to be a good supply of them being made available, then you miss your one chance to buy them after waiting for over a month because you didn't check your e-mail every half an hour every single day for the past month+ due to work/sleep/any-activity-that-doesn't-have-you-sitting-in-front-of-the-computer.

And the next batch won't be available for yet another 1-2 months? Again, I really have to say that trying to get one of Malkoff's drop-ins is like winning the lottery for a million dollars.

Regardless of whether anyone can be blamed for this, can you really blame me for being annoyed given the circumstances?


----------



## stallion2

my email has an order confirmation so i guess that means i snagged one...i'm not holding my breath though.


----------



## carrot

Don't worry Noctis, a *real* supply of them is supposed to be coming along, it is just taking time to move from the hand-built models that we have all been getting to the full scale production that we once enjoyed the availability of when the M60's were being made. His brass heatsinks are sourced from Iowa and his reflectors are coming from Hawaii, not to mention the other bits, so it's understandable that there could be many hold-ups in getting them to full production numbers.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

Count me among the losers. I didn't see the notification until 80 minutes after it arrived. As for the CPFer who bought 10: I urge Gene to limit sales of the M61 to 2 per customer per batch until they're mass-produced. All my lights are now 1AA, 2AA, or 3AA, lithium-free. Here's hoping the universe had me miss out for a reason: Say, an M21 or M31.


----------



## Mikellen

Just checked my e-mail and WOW!! great M61 back in stock!! As soon as I click on the Malkoff link it shows Out of Stock! 

I guess I'll have to wait some more. :tired:
Good think I love


----------



## benh

I guess I shouldn't admit this, but I waltzed right into both of my M61s.

I'd wanted one, and signed up for the email notification. But rather than send the notification to my regular email account, I sent it to my phone's SMS address.

Back in mid February, I was sitting in an airport, when my phone dinged, telling me that the M61 was in stock again. Fired up the laptop, bada bing, one M61 on the way. Total time invested, less than 10 minutes.

Got it, liked it so much, I decided I wanted another. Once again, signed up for the notification to my phone, and went on my merry way.

This evening, I was walking to the fridge for a beer, and ding! Opened my beer, opened my laptop, added the M61 to my cart, dithered for about 10 minutes on if I should get another M60LL as long as I was there, decided not to, and mere moments later, the other M61 was secured.

Better living through efficient use of technology.

I certainly understand scarcity of high demand items, and how frustrating it can be. I've been involved in enough of those kinds of situations, and haven't always been as fortunate as I have been here.

But in the end, it's just stuff and you can't take it too seriously.

And as for the CPFer who bought 10, if he bought 10 to use, more power to him. If he bought 10 to resell at a profit, I figure that's his prerogative in a free market, just as it is mine to refuse to deal with him due to my personal distaste for such tactics.


----------



## Anak

Mikellen said:


> Just checked my e-mail and WOW!! great M61 back in stock!! As soon as I click on the Malkoff link it shows Out of Stock!
> 
> I guess I'll have to wait some more. :tired:


 
+1

Whodda Thunk four hours was too late to the party:mecry:

At this rate, odds are it will be a long time before I ever see one of these.

Time to start looking for other options.


----------



## fisk-king

carrot said:


> This reminds me of a Ganzaa...



As the saying goes..."No regrets."


----------



## Csp203

With any luck I will pick up one 5 years from now (like an m63 at the end of its production). I think the chase is half the fun, It is not life or death.


----------



## R.VanWinkle

Well, that better living through efficient use of technology business didn't help me out none.  About five minutes elapsed between me getting the e-mail on my crackberry, disengaging myself from a conversation and running to my computer, and danged if they weren't already out of stock. Mebbe I was just at the end of a really, really long notification list. Signed up again, of course. I suppose I have enough flashlights and beer to survive until the next lot comes out.

Hasta, RVW


----------



## 021411

There was almost a good hour between the time I received my email until they were out of stock. I got my notification close to 5:30pm CST this afternoon.. I kept watch of it until almost 6:30pm when they finally sold out. If you got your email around that time, there was plenty to order.


----------



## Noctis

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Count me among the losers. I didn't see the notification until 80 minutes after it arrived. As for the CPFer who bought 10: I urge Gene to limit sales of the M61 to 2 per customer per batch until they're mass-produced. All my lights are now 1AA, 2AA, or 3AA, lithium-free. Here's hoping the universe had me miss out for a reason: Say, an M21 or M31.


Agreed. What Moddoo and Gene make obviously aren't charged high enough for custom drop-ins. Moddoo made a clever choice to limit the sales to 1 per person in order to stop opportunists from taking advantage and letting everyone else get a shot at them.


----------



## txgp17

Supply and Demand guys.

I think this is a sure sign that Gene could increase the price of the M61.

Price serves the necessary function of rationing a good or service.


----------



## pilote

bullettproof said:


> *I bought 10 of them*:twothumbs




great...you feel better now?


----------



## bullfrog

carrot said:


> This reminds me of a Ganzaa...





fisk-king said:


> As the saying goes..."No regrets."



the next batch will be out in "two weeks"...


----------



## 276

I am always at work when these come out i guess i'll just wait till everyone else has one to get one.


----------



## Fooboy

Guys relax ... he's coming off appendicitis ... the man is lucky he's not dead (had a burst appendix myself a few years ago and it was NOT fun).

Some things are worth waiting for ...


----------



## fletch31

How much current is he throwing at the xp-g with the M61?


----------



## Kid9P

Noctis said:


> I'm just kinda annoyed at the idea. You hear all about his drop-ins in every other topic, somebody else tells you that there's going to be a good supply of them being made available, then you miss your one chance to buy them after waiting for over a month because you didn't check your e-mail every half an hour every single day for the past month+ due to work/sleep/any-activity-that-doesn't-have-you-sitting-in-front-of-the-computer.
> 
> And the next batch won't be available for yet another 1-2 months? Again, I really have to say that trying to get one of Malkoff's drop-ins is like winning the lottery for a million dollars.
> 
> Regardless of whether anyone can be blamed for this, can you really blame me for being annoyed given the circumstances?


 

I'll sell you one for 100 bucks :devil:
No waiting!


----------



## Let It Bleed

I'm disappointed too, but not gonna sweat it. It would make sense to limit the number each person could buy as long as he can still sell 'em as fast as he can make 'em. 

I'm surprised it hasn't happened more that one person buys them all up and resells on the secondary market - or maybe it has. And yes I understand supply and demand. Someone always has to interject this simplistic little nugget like it's some revelation.

I’ve never used a M60 or M61, but am pleased with the Thrunite and Dereelight drop-ins I bought b/c I can’t get a Malkoff. The Malkoff was my first choice and they must be pretty darn good to command $60, and I’m curious what the extra 20-25 dollars buys. I suppose some of it is the reputation for reliability. 

Hope springs eternal, so maybe I’ll get lucky next time.


----------



## NightKids

Hmm done some research and decided that either a 6P or a C2 would be a good base for my Malkoff M61. 

The thing is I would ideally like a clicky, tail stand and hi/low setting. 

I know that there's the McClicky, but it doesn't seem to be able to adjust brightness. You guys able to advise what I would need to accomplish my 3 goals. 

P.S. Sorry bit of a n00b as this will be my 1st SureFire. If I should be posting this question somewhere else plz let me know! Cheers


----------



## bullettproof

I sure am glad I have a Blackberry.Gene sent an email I received email in about 1 minute then bought the desired Malkoff


----------



## Vesper

carrot said:


> This reminds me of a Ganzaa...



What is this... Ganzaa?


----------



## tundratrader

Busse Ganza. It is basically a free for all hog hoof scratching trough scurry to get knives. Same as Gene's stuff at this point. 

Go to bladeforums when the servers is back up. 

Kinda funny but this is definitely two weeks ganza territory. 

I did the Jedi smart phone dance this afternoon to get mine. I havent been watching this thread. What is the tint dance? Are we possibly getting non-green XPG's these days?

Zach


----------



## Unclemonkey

I feel the pain. I have visions of one day walking into my local gun/knife shop and grabbing an M61 right off the shelf. By then it will be a Malkoff M2000 or something like that. I hate waiting.


----------



## LightJaguar

Well if it makes you guys feel any better I have a perfect spot M60 that I rarely use. Its too bright for most of my needs. 
I kind of feel bad about spending all that money to buy it and not using it. So I use it as much as I can to get my money's worth. Even then its not used very often. 
This is probably blasphemy in this halls but my Skyray drop in gets about 10X more use then my M60. I took it to the beach the other day and the freaking thing was too bright. Everyone kept looking my way wondering what the hell was that bright white light. Eventually I lowered the lens on my Surefire blue filter on my C2. That made it a lot less brighter but I had to walk around the beach with a blue light.
I really hope that Gene comes out with a dual mode drop in. 
I really like my drop in but for my needs is almost useless. Its kind of like having a Ferrari to commute to work in heavy traffic or using a tank to go deer hunting.


----------



## txgp17

LightJaguar said:


> I really hope that Gene comes out with a dual mode drop in.
> I really like my drop in but for my needs is almost useless. Its kind of like having a Ferrari to commute to work in heavy traffic or using a tank to go deer hunting.


High/Low Bezel Switch for MD2


----------



## Policetacteam

Well...after being on the waiting list four seperate times...JACKPOT BABY!!!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Why should Gene start rationing his M61's? How do you know the guy that bought 10 doesnt work for the military or LEO?

Lets not forget alot of LEO use these these dropins, not just CPFers. 

I can hear Gene now, "Uh, I'm sorry Mr. Sheriff, I can only sell you two." :shakehead

I find it great that a USA business is thriving, and his products are flying off the shelf as quick as they are stocked. WTG Malkoff Devices!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Kid9P

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I find it great that a USA business is thriving, and his products are flying off the shelf as quick as they are stocked. WTG Malkoff Devices!!! :thumbsup:


 

*A BIG "Amen" to that brother* :thumbsup:


----------



## bullfrog

NightKids said:


> Hmm done some research and decided that either a 6P or a C2 would be a good base for my Malkoff M61.
> 
> The thing is I would *ideally like a clicky, tail stand and hi/low setting*.
> 
> I know that there's the McClicky, but it doesn't seem to be able to adjust brightness. You guys able to advise what I would need to accomplish my 3 goals.
> 
> P.S. Sorry bit of a n00b as this will be my 1st SureFire. If I should be posting this question somewhere else plz let me know! Cheers



Well tail-standing is a bit harder to accomplish with the 6P and C2, as well as a low-high setting.

Honestly, you would probably be best served buying a *Malkoff MD2* which comes with a clicky and can be outfitted with the 2 stage hi-low ring and tailstanding cap... You also gain the ability to run an 18650 which is nice.

I have a 6P, C2, G2s and a G3 - I love them all, but my MD2 rocks just as much!


----------



## Mikellen

LightJaguar said:


> Well if it makes you guys feel any better I have a perfect spot M60 that I rarely use. Its too bright for most of my needs.
> I kind of feel bad about spending all that money to buy it and not using it. So I use it as much as I can to get my money's worth. Even then its not used very often.
> This is probably blasphemy in this halls but my Skyray drop in gets about 10X more use then my M60. I took it to the beach the other day and the freaking thing was too bright. Everyone kept looking my way wondering what the hell was that bright white light. Eventually I lowered the lens on my Surefire blue filter on my C2. That made it a lot less brighter but I had to walk around the beach with a blue light.
> I really hope that Gene comes out with a dual mode drop in.
> I really like my drop in but for my needs is almost useless. Its kind of like having a Ferrari to commute to work in heavy traffic or using a tank to go deer hunting.



You can sell it in the MarketPlace and then buy the M60LL which is on sale at Malkoff Devices. Or place a want to trade ad for an M60L. (Just an idea).


----------



## bullfrog

Vesper said:


> What is this... Ganzaa?


There is one tomorrow...

:devil:


----------



## celler

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Why should Gene start rationing his M61's? How do you know the guy that bought 10 doesnt work for the military or LEO?
> 
> Lets not forget alot of LEO use these these dropins, not just CPFers.
> 
> I can hear Gene now, "Uh, I'm sorry Mr. Sheriff, I can only sell you two." :shakehead
> 
> I find it great that a USA business is thriving, and his products are flying off the shelf as quick as they are stocked. WTG Malkoff Devices!!! :thumbsup:



Legitimate LEO or military buyers are easy to identify and service. No complaint there. My problem is opportunists that are only looking to "work" the market. Those profits should go in Gene's pockets, not some scalper. It also robs Gene of the opportunity to widen his customer base which would provide him with long term stability. I can tell you that I will definitely boycott any of these beauties I see show up on Ebay. I'll wait my turn like the rest, I just wish for a little more level playing field.


----------



## bullfrog

Paulinski said:


> I'm running the M61 with two AW 18650 (2600) - (9P with extender).
> 
> ANy ideas on runtime with those?



+1 ???


Also, for those of you running on a single 18650 - any approximations on expected runtime?


----------



## miteemike3

bullfrog said:


> +1 ???
> 
> 
> Also, for those of you running on a single 18650 - any approximations on expected runtime?



I would imagine it's probably about the same as the M60/M30. I get about 45 minutes of continuous run time on my M30 before it starts dropping out of regulation. I'll let you know by the end of the week when my M61 arrives


----------



## wingnutLP

bullfrog said:


> Well tail-standing is a bit harder to accomplish with the 6P and C2, as well as a low-high setting.
> 
> Honestly, you would probably be best served buying a *Malkoff MD2* which comes with a clicky and can be outfitted with the 2 stage hi-low ring and tailstanding cap... You also gain the ability to run an 18650 which is nice.
> 
> I have a 6P, C2, G2s and a G3 - I love them all, but my MD2 rocks just as much!



The delerin tailstand offered by Moddo https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/248609 fits the MD2, it is a fraction looser than on a 6P but it is secure enough. If you wanted a really tight fit a tiny bit of padding like epoxy sanded down after application would do the trick.

I looked all over for a way to make the M60 multi leveland the only acceptable solution I could find was the MD2. The MD2 is at least as well made as my 6P and is pre bored for 18650 cells.

I am glad that I think the tint on non neutral cree's sucks and am happy to wait until gene releases a neutral (warm) tint on these babies.

From a supply and demand perspective he really ought to double the price on these babies and coin it some... I know I would on the frst batches of non mass produced drop ins.

Alex


----------



## JNewell

celler said:


> Legitimate LEO or military buyers are easy to identify and service.



Among other things, they don't usually post gloats like that...


----------



## kyhunter1

U-R nuts man.... The price is fine where it is at. Most of us have a limited flashlight budget. 



wingnutLP said:


> ...........From a supply and demand perspective he really ought to double the price on these babies and coin it some... I know I would on the frst batches of non mass produced drop ins.
> 
> Alex


----------



## NightKids

I agree I paid nearly $100US plus shipping for this drop in. It's my most expensive purchase for a drop in till date, don't think that's cheap in anyone's books...


----------



## JNewell

NightKids said:


> I agree I paid nearly $100US plus shipping for this drop in. It's my most expensive purchase for a drop in till date, don't think that's cheap in anyone's books...


 
How? $100 _plus_ shipping?


----------



## BIGLOU

I never win anything and always have bad luck with lottories and drawings. Thank God I also have a Blackberry. Gene emailed me 04/12/10 at 3:33 pm (Cali. time) and I got the message on my Blackberry at 3:38 pm. I got my order confirmation at 4:06. I got all nervous, like when tickets go on sale for a concert and I log on to get tickets and they sell out in minutes. Typing in my CC number and info. was also tricky using my blackberry once I logged in to the MD site, had to make sure I did no mistakes and lose out. I was having lunch and my wife even busted my balls when I told her I got to handle something real quick saying,"Oh you buying another flashlight". Explained to her it was a "Hot Item" and they sell out quick. At 7:48 this morning I got a notification that my package is on its way. While I was waiting I was able to get the MD2 ($49), the lens and head gasket kit ($4) and the pocket clip and tail shroud ($25). I'm still on back in order notification for the Hi/Lo switch ($22). When finished with this set up the total cost is going to be $161.30 for this baby.


----------



## bullettproof

Class: Priority Mail®
Service(s): Delivery Confirmation™
Status: Processed through Sort Facility

Your item was processed through and left our MONTGOMERY, AL 36119 facility on April 13, 2010. The item is currently in transit to the destination. Information, if available, is updated periodically throughout the day. Please check again later
:nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana::nana:


----------



## txgp17

kyhunter1 said:


> U-R nuts man.... The price is fine where it is at. Most of us have a limited flashlight budget.


A fair market value isn't determined by what you, I, or any other *individual *can afford.

The fair market value is the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts.

I doubt anyone who bought a M61 was being forced to do so.

If Gene increases the price, but still sells every single one of them (and he can), then he makes more profit, and thus can better provide for himself and his family.

This is Econ 101 stuff.


----------



## bullfrog

BIGLOU said:


> While I was waiting I was able to get the MD2 ($49), the lens and head gasket kit ($4) and the pocket clip and tail shroud ($25). I'm still on back in order notification for the Hi/Lo switch ($22). When finished with this set up the total cost is going to be *$161.30* for this baby.



A pretty good price in my book!

Consider if you bought a Surefire E2DL or LX2 which has comparable output, a superb warranty and bombroof reliability for $140 to 175.

With your $160+ MD2 setup - you get your 230+ lumens, gorgeous beam profile, Malkoff reliability, a low low, the ability to tailstand, POCKET CLIP, bored for 18650 AND the ability to upgrade with different dropins 

Money well spent brother!!! You are going to love it!!!

Not knocking Surefire at all - I have and love a lot of them and am a Surefire fan-boy too :tinfoil: I'm just illustrating the value that Malkoff brings to the table....


----------



## R.VanWinkle

021411 said:


> There was almost a good hour between the time I received my email until they were out of stock. I got my notification close to 5:30pm CST this afternoon.. I kept watch of it until almost 6:30pm when they finally sold out. If you got your email around that time, there was plenty to order.



Well, there have been a whole lot of posts since yesterday evening, but I feel I must respond to this slight from 021411. Up until this point I have enjoyed this forum as a friendly form of relaxation. Although low on posts I have spent a good deal of time lurking and learning. What I said was that within five minutes of receiving e-mail notification on my blackberry I logged onto my computer and the M61s were sold out. This may have been due to a long notification list. This may have been due to the crappy U.S. Gov't. server which I rely on. I was trying to make light of the fact. I in no way meant to offend Mr. Malkoff or his disciples. As a matter of fact I may have lit up enough two-legged varmints with an M60 to count as a disciple. If I had an hour notification I am sure I would have gotten one. As it is I'm signed up on the next list and waiting expectantly.

Hasta, RVW


----------



## NightKids

JNewell said:


> How? $100 _plus_ shipping?


 
$59 for the bulb
$35 for the shipping (international)

It equaled $103.XX AU


----------



## Bullzeyebill

txgp17 said:


> A fair market value isn't determined by what you, I, or any other *individual *can afford.
> 
> The fair market value is the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts.
> 
> I doubt anyone who bought a M61 was being forced to do so.
> 
> If Gene increases the price, but still sells every single one of them (and he can), then he makes more profit, and thus can better provide for himself and his family.
> 
> This is Econ 101 stuff.



That is very generous of you, looking out for Gene's interests. I prefer that Gene be the one to come up with that kind of an idea. He will charge what the market will bear. Right now he is spot on with his pricing, from my point of view, and provides wonderful products for the money spent.

Bill


----------



## kyhunter1

One of the reasons I like Malkoff products so much is the value for the money. His prices now are right on. Some people on here have mentioned that Gene should raise his prices. I just dont get why people would want to pay more when they dont have to. I guess some think that if the price is higher, it will disourage some buyers and leave more available for themselves.


----------



## benh

I'd be willing to bet that Gene didn't just come up with his pricing by rolling the dice.

I expect that he spent a fair bit of time and effort doing the math, balancing materials costs, labor costs, etc, vs the price per unit, his production capacity, and any number of other variables.

You don't build gear like this without a certain amount of analytical and deliberative bent.


----------



## BIGLOU

Thanks Bullfrog I also have quite a SF collection myself and also SF Fanboy. LOL. I just like it because it will be all Malkoff. I'm so sick I would have bought it anyway if it had been 5 or 10 bucks more. Thats why I'm


----------



## wingnutLP

Guys, of course gene came up with a price by adding up costs and adding on a profit margin. That nuch is obvious and the usual approach of a careful methodical engineer.

At the end of the day he is selling a piece of technology that gets out of date as new technology arises.

When a new computer, blu ray player, games console etc... comes out is it:

A The same price for the lifecycle of the product

OR

B More expensive for early adopters, settling to a median level in the middle of the product lifecycle and finally reduced for clearance at the end of the lifecycle

?

I think anyone here with half a braincell can answer that question.

He is of course free to set his own prices and I am sure he is making a ecent profit on each unit but it is extremely unusual to see his pricing structure in any other businesss.

I don't want to pay more and I can wait but IMOHO the early adopters should pay a premium just like in any other normal business.

Anyway, we digress, great product by all accounts and I can't wait for a neutral version (at whatever price )

Alex


----------



## JNewell

NightKids said:


> $59 for the bulb
> $35 for the shipping (international)
> 
> It equaled $103.XX AU


 
That looks more like _$59 _plus shipping, no? Or maybe "$100 plus after shipping"? The original post sounded like you paid $100 for a $59 drop-in. 

International shipping is outrageous, but that's not Gene's fault. I have been trying to get a camera part from Germany. They want EU100 to ship a 2 ounce aluminum collar. Shipping is as much as the part...


----------



## Winx

JNewell said:


> International shipping is outrageous, but that's not Gene's fault.



That's why I'll wait till [email protected] Titanium start selling M61. $6.80 first class standard airmail.


----------



## seale_navy

yeahh international shipping is crazy..

perhaps the malkoff website could allow like standard airmail instead of using USPS courier service.

and the consumer bear the risk by selecting standard airmail..


----------



## dougie

Searle,I understand your point of view and perhaps Gene 'could' offer uninsured postage. However, I suspect that the potential for loss and the ensuing emails to him to ask for help on when he posted the item etc.,etc., would be more hassle than its worth.:shrug: In addition people do tend to bad mouth suppliers if they think or perceive that the item was never sent. I'm sure Gene has taken account of the potential for uninsured post to go astray and considered it too much of a liability. I for one would rather pay the high postage that insured international shipping costs to know that I will get the item I have paid for or get a refund then take a 50/50 gamble on it arriving. Of course YMMV!:twothumbs


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

No. a price is "spot on" when supply and demand are in equilibrium. In the case of Gene's M61, supply and demand are way out of whack.



Bullzeyebill said:


> That is very generous of you, looking out for Gene's interests. I prefer that Gene be the one to come up with that kind of an idea. He will charge what the market will bear. Right now he is spot on with his pricing, from my point of view, and provides wonderful products for the money spent.
> 
> Bill


----------



## seale_navy

@ dougie: yeah you do have a point that though...

for the UK, the custom take into account the courier charges and add into the declared value and tax us...

so the only way is market place where seller from europe is desirable since no tax within europe..

anyway.. in my opinion on the to the price of M61, I dont get what the fuss about setting a higher price.. for ppl like us in europe, not only that we are burdened by shipping cost... custom charges , and now a higher M61 price...

gosh its gonna cost us a lot for ppl in europe...


----------



## thaflash_la

I finally joined these forums after years of lurking to buy one of these awesome drop-ins that always make me jealous. I actually check Malkoff's website a few times a day hoping to see them in stock... turns out they came in stock right around the time that I leave work, I think that's the only time I wished I worked an hour later. 

I'm glad to hear that he's working on mass producing them and I can't wait to get my hands on one, I guess I can find a good host in the mean time.


----------



## 021411

Oh the Malkoff drama. It never ends. For those that followed Gene way back when he started we know patience is a virtue. Remember when he put only a handful out? We were lucky to even see 5 in stock. Heck there wasn't even a notification list! It was really first come, first served. It's just the nature of the beast when it comes to buying something from Gene (until he has mass production going full steam). 

And to R.VW, my intentions were not to slight anyone. I was just stating what happened on my end and had really no intentions to rub it in anyone's face. I had notifications go to both of my emails.. I got both emails at the same time. Sorry if it pushed a button.  This is a community I'd hate to see go to shambles because of this situation. It seems like it's happening quite often when it comes to Malkoff products.


----------



## JNewell

seale_navy said:


> yeahh international shipping is crazy..
> 
> perhaps the malkoff website could allow like standard airmail instead of using USPS courier service.
> 
> and the consumer bear the risk by selecting standard airmail..



I've looked into this, and unfortunately it doesn't work for me and probably wouldn't work for most vendors. The problem is that according to the post office staff, until you get to USPS Global Priority Mail, which is very expensive, you can't get insurance and tracking. So you're thinking "have the buyer waive them," but the problem is that most payment methods (like credit cards and PayPal) and US laws place responsibility for the item shipped on the seller/sender until it is actually in the buyer's hands. So, effectively, shipping without insurance and proof of delivery leaves the seller open. Maybe someone knows of another USPS service level that will provide insurance and tracking for international packages - I may have been mis-informed by the counter people at my post office, but that is what I was told.


----------



## bullfrog

Re international shipping:

On more than one occasion, I've had an international CPFer purchase a Malkoff and have it mailed to me, which I then mailed to them at cost (no more than $10 for usps first class international). It never hurts to try. Just saying...


lovecpflovecpflovecpf:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:


----------



## R.VanWinkle

021411, Roger your last & very well stated. I got an engraved M60 in the pre-notification days, and a production M60 and M30W by randomly checking in before the boss made me start totin' around that dang Blackberry electronic leash. I actually think I preferred the old way; my big fear now is that since (unlike the other day) I seldom am in a situation to check e-mails when they come in, that I won't read the next "big one" until it is too late. Sure hope to get another chance at a pre-production M61 though; until then will just have to put up with 16340s bouncing around in my bored C2.

Keep yer powder dry, RVW.


----------



## NightKids

$35 international shipping does hurt so I think it's good that Gene hasn't raised his prices too!

But i guess i'm getting tracking no. & insurance...


----------



## LightJaguar

txgp17 said:


> A fair market value isn't determined by what you, I, or any other *individual *can afford.
> 
> The fair market value is the price at which the property would change hands between a willing buyer and a willing seller, neither being under any compulsion to buy or to sell and both having reasonable knowledge of relevant facts.
> 
> I doubt anyone who bought a M61 was being forced to do so.
> 
> If Gene increases the price, but still sells every single one of them (and he can), then he makes more profit, and thus can better provide for himself and his family.
> 
> This is Econ 101 stuff.



Yea but in this case the "market" and the supply is very small and can be easily manipulated. 
In the long term opportunists might hurt Gene's growing market by jacking up the price of his products and turning off potential non CPF buyers if he ever goes large scale.
A lot of people think that Surefire is way too expensive and are turning to other cheaper alternatives. Surefire cancelling some of their products may or may not be one consequence of that. 
The one thing that I love about Gene's products is its performance, quality and price. If surefire had come out with something like this I can only imagine what their asking price might be and perhaps wouldn't be as popular.


----------



## Dave Keith

I was fortunate to be at the computer when the notification went out and got one (ONLY one!) and it came in the mail this morning. 

As usual with Malkoff products, all I can say is Wow! Even in daylight against a white wall it was impressive. I was all excited about a tryout, but as I was hunting the elusive "white wall" my wife came by and saw the bright beam and said, "oooh!"

She is leaving today for a minister's wives retreat and the encampment where it takes place is not all that well lit. Last year she came back from the retreat with a fresh perspective on the flashlight I made her take. Today she was all about which flashlight she would take and could she take an extra for a friend.

All you happily married men know by now that my brand new M61 just left here in a SF6PD till Saturday night. Oh well, I'll get to play Saturday night!


----------



## CallMeDave

I just need continue to repeat my mantra:

I shall not buy any light that is not warm.
I shall not buy any light that is not warm.

etc.


----------



## Kid9P

R.VanWinkle said:


> Well, there have been a whole lot of posts since yesterday evening, but I feel I must respond to this slight from 021411. Up until this point I have enjoyed this forum as a friendly form of relaxation. Although low on posts I have spent a good deal of time lurking and learning. What I said was that within five minutes of receiving e-mail notification on my blackberry I logged onto my computer and the M61s were sold out. This may have been due to a long notification list. This may have been due to the crappy U.S. Gov't. server which I rely on. I was trying to make light of the fact. I in no way meant to offend Mr. Malkoff or his disciples. As a matter of fact I may have lit up enough two-legged varmints with an M60 to count as a disciple. If I had an hour notification I am sure I would have gotten one. As it is I'm signed up on the next list and waiting expectantly.
> 
> Hasta, RVW


 
RVW,

Are you an active LEO that uses his M60 on a daily basis ?

Thanks,

Ray


----------



## bullettproof

Got the M61's it has the nicest beam I have ever seen.Beautiful like a Surefire U2A but brighter.Im doing a runtime test on a AW17670 right now.I will report later.


----------



## bullfrog

bullettproof said:


> Got the M61's it has the nicest beam I have ever seen.Beautiful like a Surefire U2A but brighter.Im doing a runtime test on a AW17670 right now.I will report later.



My two arrived as well! (and another M60LL) 

Gorgeous beams and tints are OK.

Initial impression is that its a Goldilocks Malkoff: the beam profile is somewhere between a standard M60 and M60F. It lacks the prevelant punch of the "spot" of the M60 and has some really nice even flooding...

I had intended on keeping these two and selling off m M60, but, the profiles are so different, I think I will keep an M60 on hand and eventually sell one of the M61s...

Methinks this beam profile will make the M61L a real killer...


----------



## miteemike3

Got my M61 as well today. The tint is what I would describe as a creamy white, similar to that of my E2DL... perfect. The beam profiles is just like people have been saying, a prevalent hot spot with lots of usable side spill. In comparing it to my M30, the M30 has a tighter hot spot and throws a bit better with the TIR optic. The M61 is excels in close to medium distances by lighting up a pathway but with a hotspot good enough for lighting things up at a distance, albeit not quite as well as the M30. 

Overall for my needs, it's the most usable and practical beam pattern. Absolutely love it :thumbsup: Another plus side is that it does not heat up my 6P bezel like my Nailbender drop-ins did! Heat is not a real problem with this drop in for those that were wondering.


----------



## Vesper

Paul_in_Maryland said:


> No. a price is "spot on" when supply and demand are in equilibrium. In the case of Gene's M61, supply and demand are way out of whack.



But it's also bad pool -leaves a bad taste in your customers mouth- in the retail world to charge double at first then drop way down. Although now that i think about it Apple does this all the time and their fanboys seem to get over it pretty quickly. I'm glad Gene doesn't do this though.


----------



## wingnutLP

Vesper said:


> But it's also bad pool -leaves a bad taste in your customers mouth- in the retail world to charge double at first then drop way down. Although now that i think about it Apple does this all the time and their fanboys seem to get over it pretty quickly. I'm glad Gene doesn't do this though.



It is not just Apple, every new technology costs more at release regardless of the manufacturer. Materials are harder to source and more expensive, production isn't fully tooled up, reject rates are higher due to non perfect manufacturing processes etc...

It isn't gouging the customer, well maybe it is in apple's cas, it is simply a function of manufacturing a cutting edge product.


----------



## Max_Power

CallMeDave said:


> I just need continue to repeat my mantra:
> 
> I shall not buy any light that is not warm.
> I shall not buy any light that is not warm.
> 
> etc.



I'm doing the same, but if I saw available M61 drop-ins every time I went to malkoffdevices.com, I'd probably have one "just to check it out."

So this little shortage is doing me a favor


----------



## Noctis

Unless I fell asleep somewhere, the price on the M61 just jumped up by $10.

But then, I would bet good money that the thing would STILL sell like hotcakes even if it was $80.


----------



## Brian321

Noctis said:


> Unless I fell asleep somewhere, the price on the M61 just jumped up by $10.
> 
> But then, I would bet good money that the thing would STILL sell like hotcakes even if it was $80.


 
I bet Gene reads this thread and took your guys advice for him to raise the price ......LOL


----------



## Noctis

Considering how well it sold, it would be counterproductive to NOT raise the price. Personally I'd say it's going in the right direction, and it should stay up there until he can get full production of these things out, in which case they can be put on sale.

Whether I'm right or wrong about this will be clearly obvious when the next batch comes out.


----------



## Dude Dudeson

Noctis said:


> Unless I fell asleep somewhere, the price on the M61 just jumped up by $10.
> 
> But then, I would bet good money that the thing would STILL sell like hotcakes even if it was $80.


 
Not for as long though - 80 bucks would definitely make a lot of people (myself included) pass.


----------



## JNewell

Noctis said:


> Unless I fell asleep somewhere, the price on the M61 just jumped up by $10.
> 
> But then, I would bet good money that the thing would STILL sell like hotcakes even if it was $80.



You're right, it did - my bet? Probably reflects the actual costs for the production version as opposed to the essentially hand-built ones in the first couple of runs.


----------



## Swedpat

When reading this thread I just wonder if Gene will offer a M61L and LL as well? Hope so!

Regards, Patric


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Yep, those McR's cost a lot more than those optics for sure. Glad the new owners are liking their new M61's! :twothumbs


----------



## jimmy1970

Hey Gene, what's with new price rise? I honestly thought you would ignore all the talk of raising the price from all these guys that already have one. You have some pretty loyal fans here that have been waiting very patiently for your production to ramp up. What do we get? A price rise.

That OP that bought 10 is going to make some $$$$s.
Flame suit now on. :devil:


----------



## jimmy1970

Double post...


----------



## Bullzeyebill

I have met Gene and he is not the kind of guy who is going to raise his prices because of some comments in this thread. There is more to him than that. Talking to him yesterday, he did say that he would have to raise his prices on the M61. It would seem to me, and he did not say this, that the price of the McGizmo reflector alone would warrant the price increase. BTW, I have not been an advocate of raising the price of the M61 based on comments made here, and in fact would have preferred the price to remain at $59.00, because I don't own one yet. :mecry:


----------



## niran

$10 price hike??? WTF


----------



## JNewell

These are humor, no???



jimmy1970 said:


> Hey Gene, what's with new price rise? I honestly thought you would ignore all the talk of raising the price from all these goons that already have one. You have some pretty loyal fans here that have been waiting very patiently for your production to ramp up. What do we get? A price rise.
> 
> That OP that bought 10 is going to make some $$$$s.
> Flame suit now on. :devil:


 


niran said:


> $10 price hike??? WTF


----------



## choppytubbs

Gene sounds like someone with a lot of integrity, I cannot imaging he would raise the price purely because he can. There is too many people who have not had a fair chance to get one yet and he risks upsetting all of them. 

I would of thought full production and the efficiency that come with it would lower prices? Although with all the encouragement he has received to so, why not? You gotta listen to the customer. Thanks guys. I'm out.


----------



## carrot

Hi guys, with regards to the price raise:

I spoke to Gene several weeks before talks of raising the price even occurred on CPF. Gene was telling me how he really wanted to keep the price the same because of the precedent he set with the M60's and that he thought it was a great price point, however due to the higher costs of the materials he would have to raise his price eventually.

Gene is certainly not doing it because he can make an excellent profit by doing so. He had to raise the price due to a price increase in materials.


----------



## dwminer

Let's do the math:
Malkoff MD2 flashlight $49
M61 led $69 + shipping $10
High/low benzel $22 + shipping $10
Hopefully I had the MD2 shipped when one of the other items shipped, but I didn't
so the total of one piecemeal MD2 flashlight for me is going to be $170 and Ho plus the M61 Lens and head gasket $4 plus another $10 shipping, in the mad rush to order I for got it. So now the grand total is $184. I would say that Gene is doing just fine with people like me. 

PS I really want an orange MD2 so add another $70 plus $10 shipping.
Hopefully my wife never reads this
Dave

See that word "Flashaholic", thats me.
*Malkoff fan!*


----------



## MrGman

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*



Deputy T. said:


> I am in full support of Gene taking as much time as it takes for R & D on the XPG models of his drop-in. I for one hope that it doesn't mean the end to the XRE line up. I'd like to see those in production for years to come, or at least until another narrow beamed emitter comes around fill in the optic niche.
> 
> My concern now is with the Maglite drop ins, of which this discussion is surprisingly lacking in updated news. Has anyone heard from Gene as to when the next run of XPGs is due to come out. I missed out on the first batch and and have been checking in constantly hoping to get my hands on one. I've heard that some people may have had issues with the 2-3 cell models. Is there problems delaying additional releases. Like I said I'm all for proper development on the M60's, but I hope the Maglite drop in production doesn't get completely cast aside because of this.
> 
> Now to get back to baseless rumors and speculations where the real meat of any forum discussion is at...I'm exited to see what replaces the _P7_ Maglite drop ins. Is anyone else crossing their fingers for a SST-50, or dare I say SST-90...


 

Start a thread on that or find one that was opened and faded away, lets not mix maglite modules with the M61 thread. Its really a different subject. :nana:


----------



## jimmy1970

I think Gene has painted himself into a corner with his MD2 host. All his MD2, MD3, MD4 + VME e series heads are all designed for an M60 with optic that he no longer produces.

To accommodate the small bezel opening of the MD2, he has had to compromise and make the reflector of the M61 smaller than an average P60 size drop in. In order to use the M61 in an MD2, he has had to compromise again and use a thin plastic window instead of a more robust pyrex window as in the 6P. Due to the thread length of the MD2 host, a thicker, more robust window cannot be used.

I respectfully ask Gene if there is any chance of him making any of the following:

1. An M61 drop-in that has a normal P60 sized reflector to properly match the bezel size of a Surefire 6P host?

2. A Malkoff host that is designed to house the M61 that also offers a pyrex style glass window that has the same hi/low output feature?

3. An M60 optic style XP-G drop-in?

James.....


----------



## BigHonu

Bullzeyebill said:


> I have met Gene and he is not the kind of guy who is going to raise his prices because of some comments in this thread. There is more to him than that. Talking to him yesterday, he did say that he would have to raise his prices on the M61. It would seem to me, and he did not say this, that the price of the McGizmo reflector alone would warrant the price increase. BTW, I have not been an advocate of raising the price of the M61 based on comments made here, and in fact would have preferred the price to remain at $59.00, because I don't own one yet. :mecry:





What? You don't have one?! That is not right. 

Hey BB, clear out your PM's.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

BigHonu said:


> What? You don't have one?! That is not right.
> 
> Hey BB, clear out your PM's.



What, you're sending me one? PM's cleared!!!!!!!!!!!

Bill


----------



## tundratrader

I won the tint lottery mine is pure white! Not a speck of green anywhere.
To bad it is already light until 22:00 I have to wait to see what this thing is like outside. It really looks amazing on the wall. I did a quick compare of it between my M60 Q2 and my newer M60 and I think this one wins. 

Zach


----------



## BigHonu

Bullzeyebill said:


> What, you're sending me one? PM's cleared!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Bill



Hmm, still says you are over your limit. 

Check your PM's over on CPFMP.


----------



## JNewell

I'm not Gene but wondered - 

on 1, do you mean fit into the E-series incan bezel? (The E-series LED bezels are not readily user-mod'able.)

on 2, if I understand the question, Gene's been asked and has answered this quesion many times - the gap in many lights is necessary to make it a universal fit. There are variations over the long production run of P lights that make the current dimensions necessary, resulting in the gap in newer bezel/tube sets.

FWIW, I bought one of the VME bezels and put it on what had been a retired E2D. It is a grea combination, IMO. Here's a few pics, some with a mock L4 (E2e + KL4) and a 6P for size comparison. 

















jimmy1970 said:


> I think Gene has painted himself into a corner with his MD2 host. All his MD2, MD3, MD4 + VME e series heads are all designed for an M60 with optic that he no longer produces.
> 
> To accommodate the small bezel opening of the MD2, he has had to compromise and make the reflector of the M61 smaller than an average P60 size drop in. In order to use the M61 in an MD2, he has had to compromise again and use a thin plastic window instead of a more robust pyrex window as in the 6P. Due to the thread length of the MD2 host, a thicker, more robust window cannot be used.
> 
> I respectfully ask Gene if there is any chance of him making any of the following:
> 
> 1. An M61 drop-in with the same, small reflector that will fit into an E series Surefire host?
> 
> 2. An M61 drop-in that has a normal P60 sized reflector to properly match the bezel size of a Surefire 6P host?
> 
> 3. A Malkoff host that is designed to house the M61 that also offers a pyrex style glass window that has the same hi/low output feature?
> 
> 4. An M60 optic style XP-G drop-in?
> 
> James.....


----------



## jimmy1970

JNewell said:


> I'm not Gene but wondered -
> 
> on 1, do you mean fit into the E-series incan bezel? (The E-series LED bezels are not readily user-mod'able.)
> 
> on 2, if I understand the question, Gene's been asked and has answered this quesion many times - the gap in many lights is necessary to make it a universal fit. There are variations over the long production run of P lights that make the current dimensions necessary, resulting in the gap in newer bezel/tube sets.
> 
> FWIW, I bought one of the VME bezels and put it on what had been a retired E2D. It is a grea combination, IMO. Here's a few pics, some with a mock L4 (E2e + KL4) and a 6P for size comparison.


The number 2 question was talking about the bezel opening (the end the light comes out! Sorry for the confusion.

James...


----------



## FrankW438

JNewell said:


> FWIW, I bought one of the VME bezels and put it on what had been a retired E2D. It is a grea combination, IMO.



That looks like my little Frankenlight. VME Head, E1B body, and a Z68 tailswitch. I tried the M61 in it, but one little CR123 isn't enough to run the M61 worth a darn, so I keep an M30W in it. I have found this is the perfect setup for my EDC. 

(Gene, I need an M31 or M21 for this little light. Hint-hint!)

-- Frank


----------



## ElectronGuru

Vesper said:


> every new technology costs more at release regardless of the manufacturer. Materials...



Its not just new tech, old tech too. Books debut in hard cover at upwards of 500% more than the eventual soft cover. 
No way cardboard costs that much. Same thing with movies. Its patience vs availability.


----------



## R.VanWinkle

Kid9P said:


> RVW,
> 
> Are you an active LEO that uses his M60 on a daily basis ?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ray




Holy cow, I didn't make it to the computer last night, but it looks like 30 new posts since this one. This thing is really taking off again.  But to answer Ray's question, I am an active LEO, but not particularly "active" on the street anymore as last summer I was unwillingly assigned as "full time" training officer for our division. When I am not doing this "full time" I am the lead firearms instructor and armorer. Range good, desk bad. So now my daily use of flashlights mostly coincides with "You know you're a flashaholic if you wait until after it's dark to walk your dog". Prior to this I was on a fugitive apprehension task force for the last six years. We would average at least 2-3 entries a week; not at the level of a SWAT entry, but all felons and you never really know what is on the other side of the door. During the last year of this time I became completely sold on the Malkoff modules.

I learned about the Malkoff modules when I started lurking on CPF to find rechargeable options for a P60L (which now resides permanently in my spares carrier). Prior to that time I was a big fan of the P61, but of course that 20 minute run time keeps you on your toes. When we switched to the M500 series weaponlights (M3 equivalent with MN10) I still stuck with the P61 on my carbine. The M60 changed all that, and now I have one on the carbine, one in a Z2 on my vest, and an M30W either in a franken3P or a bored C2. Really looking forward to trying out the M61; I'm kinda afraid I won't like the shorter throw, but then again a lot of folks on CPF have recommended the M60F for room clearing and I never tried one of those. Ya just can't have everything in one light; I love the tint of the M30W outdoors, but not enough throw for me outdoors...

Hope this is not off-topic, but since I don't reckon I am enough of an expert to write a testimonial for Gene's products, I would like to plug the comments made by Travis Haley and Chris Costa as seen on the Malkoff website. As an oldtimer I have never been a big fan of instructional / training videos, and as a matter of fact have only shelled out my own cash for one - the Magpul Advanced Carbine video put together by these two gents (kind of an accident, drinking beer and ordering parts online from Brownell's when they were hyping it). Great video, and it makes you feel pretty smart to think you picked the same light these guys use. And that business about 100,000 rounds pretty much settles any reliability issues for us mere mortals.

Thanks to CPF for all the info I have gotten from LEOs, servicemembers, and civillians alike. Although there is no one perfect light for a patrol officer on a night shift making traffic stops for hours on end vs. a plainclothes officer vs. a SWAT officer, falling somewhere in between the latter two I'd pick the M60 every time. Now if I could just get that M61 to see how it stacks up...


----------



## etc

jimmy1970 said:


> I think Gene has painted himself into a corner with his MD2 host. All his MD2, MD3, MD4 + VME e series heads are all designed for an M60 with optic that he no longer produces.
> 
> To accommodate the small bezel opening of the MD2, he has had to compromise and make the reflector of the M61 smaller than an average P60 size drop in.




for these reasons, plus lack of throw -- means I have no immediate plans to get a M61... Quite happy with M60 and the greater throw. I find the beam profile ideal, especially at longer distances. M61 might be brighter but due to the larger hotspot, it appears to be less bright, especially beyond 30m.

M61 with an optic and I might consider it.


----------



## carrot

Talking as if the Malkoff M61 is somehow deficient due to having a smaller reflector... there is no deficiency... the M61 is a great improvement over the M60 and offers unparalleled beam quality thanks to McGizmo. Also some question of "lens optics" making Malkoff unique and new reflectored Malkoff not being "unique," hence not worth premium prices, poorly constructed argument as Malkoff is the only drop-in using a McGizmo reflector and the fact remains Malkoff is still the best P60 drop-in in town.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Not too many disparaging remarks about the M61 from owners, I notice. I am receiving one soon, private sale, and I will be able to make some objective and subjective comments. I mostly keep an open mind about this or that light when I do not have one.

Bill


----------



## BSBG

I got one yesterday, and I like it.

I do not have a current M60, but compared it to an older reflectored M60 and an optic M60L. The beam is far more usable than the M60L (and a whole lot brighter, but that should be obvious). The older m60 has a brighter hot spot but does not have anywhere near the output. The tint is cool but not overly blue to me.

The beam is exactly what I prefer - a good mix of throw and spill, neither at the expense of the other. It is similar to some of my other favorites: MN21, SPY 007, Moddoo Triple or a Lunasol 27.

I rummaged around and found a McC2S, so now I have a 2 stage M61 in a C2 host. The low is very useful at close range, much more so than either of the above M60 variants due to their small hot spots.

I'll probably get another, even at $10 more.


----------



## dcycleman

hopefully they will be in stock soon


----------



## ace0001a

etc said:


> for these reasons, plus lack of throw -- means I have no immediate plans to get a M61... Quite happy with M60 and the greater throw. I find the beam profile ideal, especially at longer distances. M61 might be brighter but due to the larger hotspot, it appears to be less bright, especially beyond 30m.
> 
> M61 with an optic and I might consider it.



I guess it depends on how far of throw you need. Say if you're a LEO and all you need is light across the street distance, the M61 does get the job done. It doesn't have as concentrated of a beam as the M60, but due to the higher output of an XP-G versus an XR-E, the illumination for such a distance is compareable. The M61 is more of a floody of course and I can honestly I didn't initally like that much when I first fired mine up. Right now, I'm slightly warming up to it and it's not bad I guess. Though like you and some others here, I do still prefer the beam of the M60.

Also with the smaller diameter of the reflector not only has to do with Gene's flashlights. From what I've seen, the XP-G needs a deeper reflector to work better and so when you make a reflector with a smaller opening to space available, you're essentially creating a deeper shaped reflector. 




carrot said:


> Talking as if the Malkoff M61 is somehow deficient due to having a smaller reflector... there is no deficiency... the M61 is a great improvement over the M60 and offers unparalleled beam quality thanks to McGizmo. Also some question of "lens optics" making Malkoff unique and new reflectored Malkoff not being "unique," hence not worth premium prices, poorly constructed argument as Malkoff is the only drop-in using a McGizmo reflector and the fact remains Malkoff is still the best P60 drop-in in town.



Everyone's got their opinion and I don't think etc was saying the M61 is deficient as much as he was stating what he doesn't like about it. While I agree that the M61 is up the Gene's usual great work. I can't agree that it's a "great improvement" over the M60. If someone asked me if I thought the M61 is better, I'd tell them it's different. Again, I'd have no problem saying it's up the Gene's usual great level of work and a fine piece of flashlight equipment. But I guess I'd fall short of saying I think it's better than the previous M60. It's an improvement in overall light output and that's a fact (due to using the XP-G LED). But as a flashaholic and realizing we all have our own tastes here in what we like, I can say I wish the beam of the M61 was more like the M60 and with the improved output capability of the XP-G emitter. I do miss the optic, but what can you do? So at this point, I've decided to appreciate the M61 for what it is. As a flashaholic, I still own a couple M60s (though I had to sell one to help pay for my M61) and so the new M61 is simply another item added to the collection.


----------



## Noctis

Given the two different beam profiles and preferences, I still say the M60 should've stayed in production.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Noctis said:


> Given the two different beam profiles and preferences, I still say the M60 should've stayed in production.



No more M60's?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

BSBG said:


> I got one yesterday, and I like it.
> 
> I do not have a current M60, but compared it to an older reflectored M60 and an optic M60L. The beam is far more usable than the M60L (and a whole lot brighter, but that should be obvious). The older m60 has a brighter hot spot but does not have anywhere near the output. The tint is cool but not overly blue to me.
> 
> The beam is exactly what I prefer - a good mix of throw and spill, neither at the expense of the other. It is similar to some of my other favorites: MN21, SPY 007, Moddoo Triple or a Lunasol 27.
> 
> I rummaged around and found a McC2S, so now I have a 2 stage M61 in a C2 host. The low is very useful at close range, much more so than either of the above M60 variants due to their small hot spots.
> 
> I'll probably get another, even at $10 more.



What is the resistor value for your McC2S?

Bill


----------



## JNewell

etc said:


> for these reasons, plus lack of throw -- means I have no immediate plans to get a M61... Quite happy with M60 and the greater throw. I find the beam profile ideal, especially at longer distances. M61 might be brighter but due to the larger hotspot, it appears to be less bright, especially beyond 30m.
> 
> M61 with an optic and I might consider it.


 
The difference in throw between the M60 and the M61, in my real-world comparisons, is modest. There is a difference, but the M61 also has much, much better spill and far better efficiency. The M61 effectively replaced a pair of lights I had with an M60 and M60F.


----------



## BSBG

Bullzeyebill said:


> What is the resistor value for your McC2S?
> 
> Bill



I think it is a 30 ohm but I may be mistaken.


----------



## etc

JNewell said:


> The difference in throw between the M60 and the M61, in my real-world comparisons, is modest. There is a difference, but the M61 also has much, much better spill and far better efficiency. The M61 effectively replaced a pair of lights I had with an M60 and M60F.



Maybe so. I will think about the M61 for my 1x18650 host, where I don't really care about throw as much. I have a 2x18650 host with M60 that's designed for throw.

You cannot keep up with the LED race. I am just thinking about upgrading when I am 2 generations behind, not just 1. To replace all of my current (perfectly working) M60** Malkoff modules and the Mag drop-in modules, I would need to spend 250+ tokens. Cost-effective?


----------



## jimmy1970

Noctis said:


> Given the two different beam profiles and preferences, I still say the M60 should've stayed in production.



Part of the big push people have to get the new M61 is the unavailability of the old M60 drop in. I would definately buy a new M60 XRE. I'd buy 2 new M60 XPEs. I would love it if Gene designed his own optic to suit crees new offering. The old M60s were certainly unique & special.

James...


----------



## etc

Noctis said:


> Given the two different beam profiles and preferences, I still say the M60 should've stayed in production.



I suspect so too. 
What I don't understand is why we cannot have the newer LED with the optic just like M60, for the identical beam profile, 8 degrees.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

BSBG said:


> I think it is a 30 ohm but I may be mistaken.



Then it should be fairly bright, maybe 50 lumens with two CR123's, and would give decent light with one 18650.

Bill


----------



## ace0001a

etc said:


> I suspect so too.
> What I don't understand is why we cannot have the newer LED with the optic just like M60, for the identical beam profile, 8 degrees.



As we know, Cree pushed the performance envelope by making the die size bigger. Historically and in a general sense, the smaller the die, the tighter it can be focused. Take the Osram Ostar SMT quad-die versus the Cree MC-E or SSCP7...since the SMT's overall die footprint is smaller than both the MC-E or the P7, it does focus into a tighter beam. Same with comparing the Luminous SST-50 and SST-90, granted both of those give you a blob of light anyway due to the sheer die size, but the SST-50 does focus tighter than the SST-90 because it is smaller. The XP-G is in tiny surface mount package like the other XP LEDs before, but with a bigger die. I think that's why it's been a challenge to focus it tighter in smaller reflectors. I think in time more optics will come out for the XP-G, but the ones I've seen spec sheets of don't look like the can focus it to any tighter than around 10 degrees (not the 8 degrees the XR-E optic does).

For the M61, the McGizmo reflector is probably the best you can do given the size of it.


----------



## mwaldron

CallMeDave said:


> I just need continue to repeat my mantra:
> 
> I shall not buy any light that is not warm.
> I shall not buy any light that is not warm.
> 
> etc.



4Sevens just secured some Warm XP-G's lets hope Gene has his order in as well. 

I for one can wait, I'm still not sure that the reflector is right for me, but when a warm one comes I'm going to find out. I find my most used one right now is the M60WL, it's a bit dimmer than my M60W but much improved run time. Perhaps a M61W will give me both...


----------



## carrot

JNewell said:


> The difference in throw between the M60 and the M61, in my real-world comparisons, is modest. There is a difference, but the M61 also has much, much better spill and far better efficiency. The M61 effectively replaced a pair of lights I had with an M60 and M60F.


What he said. I've been emphasizing this over and over again. The M60 is nice, but not necessary since the M61 truly does supersede it.


----------



## Bright_Light

mwaldron said:


> 4Sevens just secured some Warm XP-G's lets hope Gene has his order in as well.
> 
> I for one can wait, I'm still not sure that the reflector is right for me, but when a warm one comes I'm going to find out. I find my most used one right now is the M60WL, it's a bit dimmer than my M60W but much improved run time. Perhaps a M61W will give me both...


 
I'm waiting for the M61WL. :thumbsup: Did you hear that Gene?


----------



## JNewell

etc said:


> You cannot keep up with the LED race. I am just thinking about upgrading when I am 2 generations behind, not just 1. To replace all of my current (perfectly working) M60** Malkoff modules and the Mag drop-in modules, I would need to spend 250+ tokens. Cost-effective?


 


carrot said:


> What he said. I've been emphasizing this over and over again. The M60 is nice, but not necessary since the M61 truly does supersede it.


 
I agree with both of these. The M61 is for almost every purpose (of mine, anyway) as good or better than the M60. However, there's no way to keep up and the fact that I bought one M61 doesn't mean I've discarded or sold my three different M60 variants. In particular, I love the M60F and LF, and the excellent reflector in the M61 is not as good a short-range room-filler as the M60F.

I don't really feel a compulsion to only have/use the latest/greatest. Several of my favorite lights have Lux III, Lux V or P4 emitters. They still do what they do really well.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

etc said:


> You cannot keep up with the LED race. I am just thinking about upgrading when I am 2 generations behind, not just 1.


Well-said. This is actually my purchasing cycle for lots of stuff. The dizzying rate of LED progress is a big reason I stayed with incans for as long as I did.


----------



## BIGLOU

Thanks to Gene and Cathy Malkoff. I recieved my M61 a couple days ago. I already had the MD2, gasket & lens, the clip and I put her all together and was happy with the beam. Now I know what people mean by the similarity to the SF beam but only more lumens. The Hi/Lo switch became available a couple days later after the M61 came out which I was on back order notification. There I was logging in to MD website on my Blackberry and got one for $22.00 and $8.00 shipping. I should be coming home anytime soon. Now talk about honesty today I received an email form MD. Cathy Malkoff send me a apartial refund for $6.00 for the shipping of my order advising me that they had sent it in a padded envelope. If MD wanted to they would of just kept the $6.00. :thumbsup:


----------



## bullfrog

Bright_Light said:


> I'm waiting for the M61WL. :thumbsup: Did you hear that Gene?



YES!!!


----------



## BSBG

Bullzeyebill said:


> Then it should be fairly bright, maybe 50 lumens with two CR123's, and would give decent light with one 18650.
> 
> Bill



That seems about right - I tried an 18650 and it was a lot dimmer but still useful.


----------



## Kid9P

R.VanWinkle said:


> Holy cow, I didn't make it to the computer last night, but it looks like 30 new posts since this one. This thing is really taking off again. But to answer Ray's question, I am an active LEO, but not particularly "active" on the street anymore as last summer I was unwillingly assigned as "full time" training officer for our division. When I am not doing this "full time" I am the lead firearms instructor and armorer. Range good, desk bad. So now my daily use of flashlights mostly coincides with "You know you're a flashaholic if you wait until after it's dark to walk your dog". Prior to this I was on a fugitive apprehension task force for the last six years. We would average at least 2-3 entries a week; not at the level of a SWAT entry, but all felons and you never really know what is on the other side of the door. During the last year of this time I became completely sold on the Malkoff modules.
> 
> I learned about the Malkoff modules when I started lurking on CPF to find rechargeable options for a P60L (which now resides permanently in my spares carrier). Prior to that time I was a big fan of the P61, but of course that 20 minute run time keeps you on your toes. When we switched to the M500 series weaponlights (M3 equivalent with MN10) I still stuck with the P61 on my carbine. The M60 changed all that, and now I have one on the carbine, one in a Z2 on my vest, and an M30W either in a franken3P or a bored C2. Really looking forward to trying out the M61; I'm kinda afraid I won't like the shorter throw, but then again a lot of folks on CPF have recommended the M60F for room clearing and I never tried one of those. Ya just can't have everything in one light; I love the tint of the M30W outdoors, but not enough throw for me outdoors...
> 
> Hope this is not off-topic, but since I don't reckon I am enough of an expert to write a testimonial for Gene's products, I would like to plug the comments made by Travis Haley and Chris Costa as seen on the Malkoff website. As an oldtimer I have never been a big fan of instructional / training videos, and as a matter of fact have only shelled out my own cash for one - the Magpul Advanced Carbine video put together by these two gents (kind of an accident, drinking beer and ordering parts online from Brownell's when they were hyping it). Great video, and it makes you feel pretty smart to think you picked the same light these guys use. And that business about 100,000 rounds pretty much settles any reliability issues for us mere mortals.
> 
> Thanks to CPF for all the info I have gotten from LEOs, servicemembers, and civillians alike. Although there is no one perfect light for a patrol officer on a night shift making traffic stops for hours on end vs. a plainclothes officer vs. a SWAT officer, falling somewhere in between the latter two I'd pick the M60 every time. Now if I could just get that M61 to see how it stacks up...


 

I always looking out for LEO's. :thumbsup:

If your interested, I'll send you my M61 for one of your M60's.
My M61 is in mint condition. I know the M61's cost more, but I have no problem calling it an even trade. 

This way there is no waiting for Gene to make more.
Plus I won't be out of a drop in.

Let me know if this works for you..

Ray


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Kid9P said:


> I always looking out for LEO's. :thumbsup:
> 
> If your interested, I'll send you my M61 for one of your M60's.
> My M61 is in mint condition. I know the M61's cost more, but I have no problem calling it an even trade.
> 
> This way there is no waiting for Gene to make more.
> Plus I won't be out of a drop in.
> 
> Let me know if this works for you..
> 
> Ray



Good on you Ray!!! :twothumbs


----------



## BigHonu

Ray, 

You da man!


----------



## Policetacteam

> If your interested, I'll send you my M61 for one of your M60's.
> My M61 is in mint condition. I know the M61's cost more, but I have no problem calling it an even trade.


 
If he doesn't take you up on that I will! I love my M60's but the M61 that just arrived is really nice! It's currently in my Surefire M951 which is mounted to my duty rifle. Great combo. If you really like the M60, which I still do as well, I'd trade.


----------



## 021411

Well I picked up my M61 from the post office after work this morning. Can you believe it has been sitting at the P.O. since the 15th? The postman didn't leave a note in my box. I decided to check the tracking number online and found out they tried to deliver it. 

So what do I think? I'm honestly not sure yet. I compared the M60, M60W MC-E, and M61 side by side. I don't know... I'm still a "wall of light" junkie. I can't put the M60W MC-E in the gear bag just yet. 
Is it me or does the M61 have a slight greenish tint to it? Well one thing is for sure. It's definitely much "warmer" than the M60. It has a very smooth beam as well. Spill is decent but not room filling. I need to give it more time.


----------



## MrGman

My M61 has a slight greenish tint, only noticeable when I put it next to other lights directly. But I don't care. Its bright, its a smooth beam. It lights up a room. A friend looking at it last night said it was slightly yellowish/green. But that was only after comparing it directly to the orignal M60.


----------



## R.VanWinkle

Kid9P said:


> I always looking out for LEO's. :thumbsup:
> 
> If your interested, I'll send you my M61 for one of your M60's.
> My M61 is in mint condition. I know the M61's cost more, but I have no problem calling it an even trade.
> 
> 
> 
> Ray



Ray, thank you for your kind offer. Sorry for only checking in here sporadically. I would like to trade; please PM me your info, I'd like to send you the production M60 and give you a chance to check it out before sending the M61. It has had mebbe at most three pairs of batteries through it. I don't see any tint problems with it, but it is a bit cooler than my prized engraved one. Transit time is not a problem for me, I'll be out of town for a week or so here shortly. Thanks again,

RVW


----------



## Kid9P

R.VanWinkle said:


> Ray, thank you for your kind offer. Sorry for only checking in here sporadically. I would like to trade; please PM me your info, I'd like to send you the production M60 and give you a chance to check it out before sending the M61. It has had mebbe at most three pairs of batteries through it. I don't see any tint problems with it, but it is a bit cooler than my prized engraved one. Transit time is not a problem for me, I'll be out of town for a week or so here shortly. Thanks again,
> 
> RVW


 
Glad to help, PM sent with my shipping info.
I prefer cooler tints, so this is just perfect.

Thanks,

Ray


----------



## GarageBoy

Would it be possible to build a modular drop in and maintain the Malkoff patent? (screw in optic or reflector)


----------



## NightKids

Has anyone from Australia/overseas received their Malkoff M61? I'm still waiting on mine. Hmm it's been a little while now...

How do I contact Gene to chase this up? Is the online form the only way of getting to him? I thought I would be supplied with a tracking no. etc.


----------



## 021411

NightKids said:


> Has anyone from Australia/overseas received their Malkoff M61? I'm still waiting on mine. Hmm it's been a little while now...
> 
> How do I contact Gene to chase this up? Is the online form the only way of getting to him? I thought I would be supplied with a tracking no. etc.



It depends on how he sent the M61's. If it's the slowest possible way, it will take a few weeks.


----------



## jimmy1970

NightKids said:


> Has anyone from Australia/overseas received their Malkoff M61? I'm still waiting on mine. Hmm it's been a little while now...
> 
> How do I contact Gene to chase this up? Is the online form the only way of getting to him? I thought I would be supplied with a tracking no. etc.


 Deliveries from Gene normally take around 8 days to Brisbane Qld. Global priority is normally pretty reliable. 

James.....


----------



## wingnutLP

GarageBoy said:


> Would it be possible to build a modular drop in and maintain the Malkoff patent? (screw in optic or reflector)



Can anyone shed light on what Malkoff has patented in his dropin?


----------



## seale_navy

nightkids...

i havent bought anything from malkoff. so i just wanted to let u know the time frame for priority international with tracking...

the last when i was in UK, my international priority took around 10 days to get to me from Pelican Inc, Torrance USA.


----------



## NightKids

Thanks everyone. I spoke too soon, I got back at it was there! And luckily my SureFire C2 came as well ! Perfect timing...

Wow what can I say about the beam? It is magnificent, the amount of usuable light is just incredible. The Surefire itself is excellent quality as well, the threads and everything was great. I own a Fenix TK10 also and I must say that the quality is pretty close, does anyone else feel this way or am I totally off track?


----------



## GarageBoy

Do your M61s have excessive potting material around the LED?


----------



## CLBME

Hi Nightkids, I too have a TK10 and have been wanting a Malkoff M61. Can you tell me how they compare? I don't have any other reference....

Thank you!

1


NightKids said:


> Thanks everyone. I spoke too soon, I got back at it was there! And luckily my SureFire C2 came as well ! Perfect timing...
> 
> Wow what can I say about the beam? It is magnificent, the amount of usuable light is just incredible. The Surefire itself is excellent quality as well, the threads and everything was great. I own a Fenix TK10 also and I must say that the quality is pretty close, does anyone else feel this way or am I totally off track?


----------



## NightKids

CLBME said:


> Hi Nightkids, I too have a TK10 and have been wanting a Malkoff M61. Can you tell me how they compare? I don't have any other reference....
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 1


 
I think the M61 produces an all round better light compared with the TK10. It has more flood & usable light, the beam pattern is better, it's brighter and from what I can tell it seems to throw further too. Definately no regrets here, you'll love it!


----------



## CLBME

Excellent! Thanks a lot for the reply. I've been watching the marketplace. I think I'll put it in a 6p but a I may go for a complete Malkoff w a high/lo ring.

Thanks again.



NightKids said:


> I think the M61 produces an all round better light compared with the TK10. It has more flood & usable light, the beam pattern is better, it's brighter and from what I can tell it seems to throw further too. Definately no regrets here, you'll love it!


----------



## NightKids

Can't go wrong with either of those bases. 

One other thing, the Fenix will run hot on turbo after around 15 minutes. The Malkoff seems to stay cool forever (till the battery runs out)


----------



## MrGman

Talked to Gene the other night. He has 400 M61's in the works, waiting on one certain part to have everything he needs to put them all together. Kitco up in Boise Idaho will be putting most of those together once all the parts are in. Should be soon. He's also looking at a driver to make an M31 but that's not so close yet. But there will eventually be an M31 that will run off of 2AA NiMH just fine.


----------



## joco

Good news about the M-61's, Mr G. Did Gene say whether any of these would be M-61 warm or neutral?

John


----------



## MrGman

joco said:


> Good news about the M-61's, Mr G. Did Gene say whether any of these would be M-61 warm or neutral?
> 
> John


 
No, I didn't think to ask either, had other questions on my mind at the time.


----------



## funkymonkey1111

NightKids said:


> Can't go wrong with either of those bases.
> 
> One other thing, the Fenix will run hot on turbo after around 15 minutes. The Malkoff seems to stay cool forever (till the battery runs out)


 
next time you talk to gene, see when the MD4s are coming back


----------



## FrankW438

MrGman said:


> Talked to Gene the other night. He has *400 *M61's in the works, waiting on one certain part to have everything he needs to put them all together. Kitco up in Boise Idaho will be putting most of those together once all the parts are in. Should be soon. He's also looking at a driver to make an M31 but that's not so close yet. But there will eventually be an M31 that will run off of 2AA NiMH just fine.



Any predictions on how long _those_ will take to sell out?

Glad to see Gene is ramping up production. I am also curious to see how the M31 turns out. I have an M30W in an E1B/VME setup for my EDC. I would love to crank a few more lumens out of it. I think the M61 beam profile would be perfect in a little pocket rocket like this. 

-- Frank


----------



## MrGman

funkymonkey1111 said:


> next time you talk to gene, see when the MD4s are coming back


 

If you mean the Wildcat's they are waiting on reflectors. the new ones will have 3 XPG's in reflectors instead of 4 of the original LED die style with the optics. they will be in the 750 lumen class range at about the same total power consumption roughly. You will like it.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

MrGman said:


> If you mean the Wildcat's they are waiting on reflectors. the new ones will have 3 XPG's in reflectors instead of 4 of the original LED die style with the optics. they will be in the 750 lumen class range at about the same total power consumption roughly. You will like it.



OWWWWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW!!!! :rock:


----------



## MrGman

PoliceScannerMan said:


> OWWWWWWW YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAHHAAAAAAAWWWWWW!!!! :rock:


 

Can you spell that? :naughty:

Did you get any on your shirt?


----------



## BigHonu

MrGman said:


> If you mean the Wildcat's they are waiting on reflectors. the new ones will have 3 XPG's in reflectors instead of 4 of the original LED die style with the optics. they will be in the 750 lumen class range at about the same total power consumption roughly. You will like it.



Along with a MD3 body, that is going to be a killer package!


----------



## psychbeat

Originally Posted by *MrGman* 

 
_If you mean the Wildcat's they are waiting on reflectors. the new ones will have 3 XPG's in reflectors instead of 4 of the original LED die style with the optics. they will be in the 750 lumen class range at about the same total power consumption roughly. You will like it. 


^^SSSSSSLLLLLLLLLAAAAAMINN

i wonder how fast those are gonna sell out tho...:green:
_


----------



## mwaldron

Still waiting patiently for an M61W to try out and compare against my M60W and M60WL...


----------



## 276

Can't wait!! my Wildcat was my favorite light i bought last year!


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*Re: The Malkoff M31!*



MrGman said:


> He's also looking at a driver to make an M31 but that's not so close yet. But there will eventually be an M31 that will run off of 2AA NiMH just fine.


Well, that's the second-best news of my week! It doesn't _quite _rise to the rank of the best news: Yesterday, my older daughter was accepted into med school. :twothumbs


----------



## MrGman

psychbeat said:


> Originally Posted by *MrGman*
> 
> 
> _If you mean the Wildcat's they are waiting on reflectors. the new ones will have 3 XPG's in reflectors instead of 4 of the original LED die style with the optics. they will be in the 750 lumen class range at about the same total power consumption roughly. You will like it. _
> 
> 
> _^^SSSSSSLLLLLLLLLAAAAAMINN_
> 
> _i wonder how fast those are gonna sell out tho...:green:_


 

I think I heard him say that he's making 400 of these as well.

If I understand what he has been telling me correctly, he is prepping to make major production runs rather than dribs and drabs. This is far more cost effective but it also means having all the parts to kit up and build with. He will be working on all the designs of new products and the contract builder will make the lights. There are great things coming down the pike. :twothumbs


----------



## bigchelis

MrGman,

Gene's M31 you said will work with 2 NiMH AA cells, but did you catch if it will be full power? So, far nobody makes the XP-G or XR-E run off full power with just 2 AA cells. Dereelight makes a good low voltage .9v~4.2V, but it needs 3 AA cells for full power


The Malkoff Wildcat Tripple sounds good too. The same power consumption with more lumens Plus, 3 of them will provide more throwy beam then stuffing 4 of them in the same space.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

An M31, if produced, would probably produce about 60% of the full power of an M61 with two NiMh AA's. One RCR123 would produce full power.

Bill


----------



## jaundice

Bullzeyebill said:


> An M31, if produced, would probably produce about 60% of the full power of an M61 with two NiMh AA's. One RCR123 would produce full power.
> 
> Bill


 
Bill (or anyone else):

Why is that? Is the limitation the output of the NiMH cells, or is it the driver? I guess I don't understand the technical reason why the M30 or potential M31 performs so much differently on NiMh cells.

Thanks,

-John


----------



## Bullzeyebill

I have the M30, and the M60. Doing bounce with a lightmeter I find that the M30 with two NiMh's puts out about 60% the light (lux numbers) of an M60. There is a different circuit in the M30 that acts more like a boost voltage regulated circuit, where current to the LED increases as the voltage increases. There is some constant regulation going on as I have timed flat output from an M30 with an 18650 to be about 100 minutes with very little drop in output, no more than 10%. That was with my M30, and others may vary. Using two NiMh's and the output drops, but again there is some regulation going on with a very slow drop in output. I suspect that is there is an M31 developed that it will use a similiar circuit as the M30, though some tweeking will have to occur due to the low vf of most XP-G's. I will add that the M61 with one 18650 runs in regulation at a slightly lower output, say a guestimate, from my bounce testing, of 240 lumens vs 260 lumens with two CR123's or two LiIons. I have no IS so this is just an estimate. Use an RCR123, and the numbers are very similar. The M61 will not run well with two NiMh's, just the nature of the buck circuit used in the M61.

Bill


----------



## MrGman

bigchelis said:


> MrGman,
> 
> Gene's M31 you said will work with 2 NiMH AA cells, but did you catch if it will be full power? So, far nobody makes the XP-G or XR-E run off full power with just 2 AA cells. Dereelight makes a good low voltage .9v~4.2V, but it needs 3 AA cells for full power
> 
> 
> The Malkoff Wildcat Tripple sounds good too. The same power consumption with more lumens Plus, 3 of them will provide more throwy beam then stuffing 4 of them in the same space.


 
That's just it, he hasn't found the optimum driver yet, still in development.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

*Re: The Malkoff M31!*



Paul_in_Maryland said:


> Well, that's the second-best news of my week! It doesn't _quite _rise to the rank of the best news: Yesterday, my older daughter was accepted into med school. :twothumbs



Congratulations to you and your daughter.

Bill


----------



## Bullzeyebill

MrGman said:


> He's also looking at a driver to make an M31 but that's not so close yet. But there will eventually be an M31 that will run off of 2AA NiMH just fine.



I missed that. Probably with reduced output on two NiMh AA's, but full power with one 18650, like the M30. That is what I am guessing anyway.

Bill


----------



## MrGman

Bullzeyebill said:


> I missed that. Probably with reduced output on two NiMh AA's, but full power with one 18650, like the M30. That is what I am guessing anyway.
> 
> Bill


 
the intent is to make it work from 1.8 to a max of 5.5V with the nominal being the 3.7 to 4.2V of an 18650 but also work off 2AA. So it may not be full power off of 2AA, but he's looking for better drivers. With the lower voltage drop of the XP-G die it may come into or closer to full power regulation off of 2AA's better than the M30 series did even if it had the same driver. So instead of 60% may get 80% as an example. Won't know till I have one to test. I am not in a hurry as others are for this though.


----------



## Paul_in_Maryland

*The Malkoff M31 deserves 1.6V AAs*

C'mon, Eneloopers: Give PowerGenix NiZn AAs a try. I've made the switch; the 33 percent voltage boost under load (1.6V vs. 1.2) makes a difference you can see. My 1AA keyring light is a Fivemega body running a Dereelight XP-G 0.9-4.2V drop-in, powered by a NiZn AA. I never thought I'd live to see this kind of output from a lithium-free AA.


----------



## tommyk42

*Re: The Malkoff M31 deserves 1.6V AAs*

Back in stock! Has the price on these gone up?


----------



## signal 13

*Re: The Malkoff M31 deserves 1.6V AAs*



tommyk42 said:


> Back in stock! Has the price on these gone up?


 
Sure has... coupon code "CPF" will getcha a few bucks off!

Just ordered *two*!!! Why have one when you can have two at twice the price! 

I thought my keyboard was going to catch fire I ordered them so fast!


----------



## tommyk42

*Re: The Malkoff M31 deserves 1.6V AAs*

I was just wondering...I ordered one using the coupon code too. Now my 6p and I have to wait...


----------



## JohnnyLED

I just picked up a M61. I cant wait to compare it to my M60F. Looks like I need another surefire 6p. 

Johnny


----------



## Noctis

*Re: The Malkoff M31 deserves 1.6V AAs*

I probably shouldn't have, but I bought myself one(missed the coupon too).

Since I mostly have an obsession with raw brightness rather than other stuff like beam profile, artifacts, rings, donuts, heat, and runtime, maybe Malkoffs simply aren't for me. But since I did order a second 6P host I figure I can just carry both around. One for impressing people(mostly myself), and the other(with the Malkoff) for actual practical use in potential blackout situations.


----------



## Inliner

And gone...


----------



## Noctis

Inliner said:


> And gone...


Given that I got the back in stock notification roughly half an hour ago, I think it's sort of good that Gene raised the prices. They still sold like hotcakes, though my wallet will protest about it.:twothumbs


----------



## signal 13

Inliner said:


> And gone...


 
Crazy, huh?!?!?!


----------



## rookie

For those that still want the M61, noticed that Gene still has them in a Turn-key package if purchased with a MD2 for $107.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

MrGman, noted in another thread that there will be a few hundred coming up soon. His people in Utah will be putting them together. 

Bill


----------



## umc

I've been waiting for a m61 for a bit and was surprised that while at dinner I got the email. I ordered two and am quite happy. 

What was the old price, 59.00 right?


----------



## BigHonu

According to an email I received, more M61's will be available on Monday or Tuesday with XP-G based Wildcats about 2 weeks after that.


----------



## GarageBoy

Old price was $59
New batch is not going to be the hand engraved ones?


----------



## CLBME

I have a question for anyone:

Is there any difference in beam for any reason if I were to use a 6P host vs the MD2? It seems like the 6p was a wider bezel "face" vs the MD2 or is that not the case?

Thank you.

Christian


----------



## dwminer

rookie said:


> For those that still want the M61, noticed that Gene still has them in a Turn-key package if purchased with a MD2 for $107.


 
Thank's for pointing that out. I would have missed that. Now I have one on it's way.
Dave


----------



## Bullzeyebill

CLBME said:


> I have a question for anyone:
> 
> Is there any difference in beam for any reason if I were to use a 6P host vs the MD2? It seems like the 6p was a wider bezel "face" vs the MD2 or is that not the case?
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Christian



Yes that is true. You will gain some more spill when you use the M61 in a SF type host, however, the loss of output is not that significant and the central hotspot will not be affected when using the MD2. I have the MD2 as well as SF hosts for my M61.

Bill


----------



## CLBME

Good evening Bill,

Thank you for the reply. Do you have a preference between the two for any reason? I don't have experience with either. Is one "better" in terms of switch style or other that might influence my choice?

Christian



Bullzeyebill said:


> Yes that is true. You will gain some more spill when you use the M61 in a SF type host, however, the loss of output is not that significant and the central hotspot will not be affected when using the MD2. I have the MD2 as well as SF hosts for my M61.
> 
> Bill


----------



## Kif

BigHonu said:


> According to an email I received, more M61's will be available on Monday or Tuesday with XP-G based Wildcats about 2 weeks after that.



:twothumbs Great! hope I can grab one in time :naughty:


----------



## Bullzeyebill

CLBME, I like the MD2 as you can add the two stage resistor module to it and have a nice two level light. I actually prefer the SF or McClicky swith to the Kroll, though Gene's Kroll does well handling current, and I think that his three or four cell bodies would be nice, adding your own switch to it, or using the supplied Kroll tailcap setup. You will be able to use the resistor module in the three and four cell lights as well.

Bill


----------



## CLBME

Thanks Bill for your thoughts about the two-level feature of the MD2. It would be nice to have both. As I don't have the money for both it's tough to choose. I don't have any SF products and I'd like to check one out, but I feel the same way about the MD2. 

If you didn't consider the two-level feature of the MD2 would you still gravitate toward it over the SF for other reasons, or would the SF switch point you in that direction?






Bullzeyebill said:


> CLBME, I like the MD2 as you can add the two stage resistor module to it and have a nice two level light. I actually prefer the SF or McClicky swith to the Kroll, though Gene's Kroll does well handling current, and I think that his three or four cell bodies would be nice, adding your own switch to it, or using the supplied Kroll tailcap setup. You will be able to use the resistor module in the three and four cell lights as well.
> 
> Bill


----------



## harkamus

Digging through this thread I keep reading that some people have ordered an m61, but I've also read a few posts about how the m61 isn't out yet, which is confusing. Are there different versions of the m61? I've been trying to get one for a while now, but always luck out when I check the webpage. I've also emailed Gene about them, but haven't gotten a reply back. Guy seems really busy working on these. Can someone clear up the confusion?


----------



## Noctis

harkamus said:


> Digging through this thread I keep reading that some people have ordered an m61, but I've also read a few posts about how the m61 isn't out yet, which is confusing. Are there different versions of the m61? I've been trying to get one for a while now, but always luck out when I check the webpage. I've also emailed Gene about them, but haven't gotten a reply back. Guy seems really busy working on these. Can someone clear up the confusion?


From what I understand, they've been available for a little while now. The big difference is that the ones available until now were handmade by Gene himself.

The ones that "aren't out yet" would be the mass produced M61s made in a factory.

I can't make any comments on whether or not this will affect the quality, but I doubt it. All it should mean is that there will be a LOT of them available in the future, so it shouldn't be as hard to get ahold of one. And if he makes more than he can sell, the M61s might even get dropped in price.


----------



## carrot

Lol more M61s than he can sell. I doubt it.


----------



## harkamus

Noctis said:


> The ones that "aren't out yet" would be the mass produced M61s made in a factory.


Does that mean his products won't be made in the good ole USA anymore?


----------



## carrot

They are assembled in the USA, by Americans, from USA-made parts sourced around the country.

This is for both the handmade ones and the mass produced ones.


----------



## Noctis

carrot said:


> Lol more M61s than he can sell. I doubt it.


Well a few people did have some complaints about the increased price of the M61s. Depending on how much the factory is going to produce in a month, it COULD be possible that he might find himself with the modules collecting dust. Certainly not in the 1st month of production, but perhaps in the 3rd month when the M61 mania blows over.

Perhaps it's because my mind simply isn't pragmatic when it comes to flashlights, but I believe it's more or less a FACT that there are many many dropins that are much brighter than the Malkoff dropins, which pulls away the lumens enthusiast crowd.

I'm sure military and LEO can find use for the Malkoffs, but I doubt anyone in my local police department even has a Surefire much less a Malkoff. And while the two coworkers I know who are in the military have heard of a Surefire, they never heard of Malkoff nor did it ever occur to them that they could change the factory lamps.

That said, flashaholics are in short supply, at least in my part of the world. I''m also reasonably certain that I'm the only one with a Malkoff drop-in within a 50 mile radius.


----------



## jhc37013

I have know experience with Malkoff and wondering if I order the MD2 with M61 Turn-key does this light have the glass lens included. 

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/turnkey-ha-flashlight-md2-p-68.html


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Noctis, not your first post, but welcome to CPF. When you have been around CPF for awhile you will begin to understand the allure of Malkoff products. His products have been around a few years now and they are still going strong, and do not show signs of being faddy. Do searches for Malkoff and you will be surprised. :thumbsup:

Bill


----------



## MrGman

jhc37013 said:


> I have know experience with Malkoff and wondering if I order the MD2 with M61 Turn-key does this light have the glass lens included.
> 
> http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/turnkey-ha-flashlight-md2-p-68.html


 

yes it comes with the lens and gasket to seal up the front end.


----------



## harkamus

jhc37013 said:


> I have know experience with Malkoff and wondering if I order the MD2 with M61 Turn-key does this light have the glass lens included.
> 
> http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/turnkey-ha-flashlight-md2-p-68.html


Another silly noob question. What does "turn-key" mean?


----------



## merdock69

Gene offers "build your own" kits that you can piece together your own custom light and he offers "drop ins" for existing flashlight bodies. The "turn key" refers to the fact it is a fully assembled flashlight, body, light module, lens and gasket... Its what you would get off the shelf from Lowes or something.


----------



## harkamus

merdock69 said:


> Gene offers "build your own" kits that you can piece together your own custom light and he offers "drop ins" for existing flashlight bodies. The "turn key" refers to the fact it is a fully assembled flashlight, body, light module, lens and gasket... Its what you would get off the shelf from Lowes or something.


The 10% discount you get with it makes a whole lot more sense to me than if I would piece together a flashlight, since I would pick those exact components.

Thanks for clearing that up. :twothumbs


----------



## carrot

Malkoff mania will not blow over. We are not his only market. We are simply his most vocal market.

Those looking for a reliable, high quality, high output drop-in know to seek Malkoff, as he has built a reputation for being the best.


----------



## 021411

carrot said:


> Malkoff mania will not blow over. We are not his only market. We are simply his most vocal market.
> 
> Those looking for a reliable, high quality, high output drop-in know to seek Malkoff, as he has built a reputation for being the best.



Gene's stuff is huge here (obviously) and on other forums. When I mention Malkoff Devices to friends of mine, they always say "huh?" :mecry:


----------



## CLBME

I just ordered my first Malkoff, which I've been wanting for a while. :twothumbs A complete MD2. Thanks go to Bullzeyebill and Carrot for their help.


----------



## BigHonu

CLBME said:


> I just ordered my first Malkoff, which I've been wanting for a while. :twothumbs A complete MD2. Thanks go to Bullzeyebill and Carrot for their help.



Congratulations! Only problem is you may have a hard time stopping at just one! After this there is the orange, camo, MD3 body...


----------



## CLBME

BigHonu thanks! I'm worried about that...............my checkbook is my anchor in a sea of Malkoff devices . 



BigHonu said:


> Congratulations! Only problem is you may have a hard time stopping at just one! After this there is the orange, camo, MD3 body...


----------



## carrot

And of course we can't forget the MD4...


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

And the Wildcat, oh, and also upgrade all your old Mags too!!!


----------



## CLBME

Oh man you guys are killing me!


----------



## CR123_CR123_CR123

I'm waiting for the Orange MD2 and Wildcats to come back in stock (and M61s too).

Maybe i'll get the turnkey MD2 in the interim. :twothumbs


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

I thought I read Orange Wildcats, I nearly spilled my beer!!!


----------



## jhc37013

merdock69 said:


> Gene offers "build your own" kits that you can piece together your own custom light and he offers "drop ins" for existing flashlight bodies. The "turn key" refers to the fact it is a fully assembled flashlight, body, light module, lens and gasket... Its what you would get off the shelf from Lowes or something.



Cool I'm getting my first Malkoff I would have had one sooner but it's been hard to get what I have been after which has just been a drop-in. So now I will start with the MD2 with M61 and actually prefer to start like this so I can check out Gene's complete product. I'm not sure about the acrylic lens but you Malkoff users seem to think it's fine so I'm sure it's good to go.

One thing that would make it perfect is a hi/low ring, anyone know where I can get one or anyone have one they would sell?


----------



## skwei

just placed my order for 1 'turn key' MD2 [ with M61 drop in ] 

and there's only 3 units left as of now.....


----------



## tundratrader

Thanks for the heads up. I missed this last batch. I think I will sell my last m60 when I get this. So long as the tint is right.

Zach


----------



## Darvis

They're up again, just nabbed one... Finally!!!


----------



## stevie-ca

29 left


----------



## Kif

Finally got one
23 left


----------



## Reaper

Finally got M61 for myself and my son (I hope he appreciates it). I am now HAPPY!!!


----------



## BigMHoff

9 left!


----------



## lightsandknives

Just got mine. There were 14 left when I started the transaction, and by the time I got through, there were 9 left!


----------



## houstonnightlight

2 left........at 5:17CDT


----------



## dirtech

This thread is epic. They are already out of stock. I don't even need one, but subscribed for the notification just to see what happens.


----------



## 276

Missed it a second time, it sucks when you get home from work at 8, i wish i got out earlier.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Patience grasshoppers.

Bill


----------



## 276

I don't mind the wait, i really want the updated Wildcat,


----------



## lightsandknives

You think these are hard to come by, try to snag an Atwood tool.....


----------



## R.VanWinkle

Gents, just wanted to post my initial impressions of the M61 after playing with it for several days. And also say thanks to Kid9P for the trade. Thanks, Ray!

The hotspot of the M61 really is beautimous. I was prepared for a little less throw than the M60 from comments on this thread, but somehow never picked up on what a big difference is to be seen in the spill of the reflector vs. the optic. The M61 has really bright spill out to a point and then, bam, just black. Somehow never caught on to this from the beamshots. I think I really prefer the M60 with the dimmer spill tapering into nothing for outdoors. Now granted, indoors this is generally negated due to reflections off of the ceiling and walls. Indoors the advantage definitely goes to the wider hotspot of the M61, and for entry work I think it makes it easier to take in your surroundings rather than being overly focused on/distracted by the smaller hotspot of the M60.

For an LE light I would prefer the M60 outdoors, but as a general utility light the M61 may well be a better choice. Too much blinding glare from the M60 when yer tryin' to pick up dog poop on the nightly walk unless you have the high/low bezel for the MD2, or a McC2s for the SF. 

Once I quit playing with it I think the M61 will be the ideal module for my SF/FM 3P. I did some rough single-cell 16340 runtime tests between an M30W and the M61 using two each year-old white Trustfire protected 16340s that appear to be evenly matched. (Even when new they never charged to more than 4.12 volts in the WF-139. So you may very well get different results with better cells, but I figured it was a good comparison of the lights).

On the first run the M30W shut off at @ 23 min. The M61 was still running, although quite dimly, at 1 hr. 15 min. when I shut it off, as I was having problems staying awake. After charging the batts, the next day I swapped them and the M30W shut off at @ 22 min., with a voltage of 3.25v. At 45 min. I shut off the M61 to check voltage, which was 3.05v, ouch. Not good for the batteries but no unexpected shutoff. Don't know if the protection circuit on AW's will give the same result. Hopefully someone else will test this, I'm not willing to risk an AW until I run through my stock of these Trustfire's. Can't say I recommend to anyone to use 16340s in a duty/backup light, but if you know how to use a volt meter and watch your batteries it's like Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations" or something like that.

With one primary the M30W is the definite winner; the M61 is dim but usable. I don't have a P30 to compare to, but the M61 on one primary is much dimmer than a P60 on six volts.

If I found the Genie in the bottle and he asked me what I would want as the perfect (6P compatible) light, I would say the hotspot and runtime of the M61, the throw and "residual" spill of the M60, and the tint of the M60/M30W.

But I gotta 'fess up that I did get the fourth to last M61 on the Malkoff site last Friday.

Hasta,

RVW


----------



## psychbeat

maybe there will be an M61W sporting the new
XP-G R2 (4000k)

its a great tint!


----------



## Noctis

Well I finally got my M61 in today and I have to say that I really like it a lot:twothumbs.

Compared to the M60, the hotspot is definitely bigger(and more practical at close range). The spill is significantly wider and brighter. I think someone was being modest when they said that the output was only 13% higher, because the M61 clearly blows away my M60.

The beam is nice and pretty with a nice concentrated hotspot in the center, surrounded by a nice and even spill, no funny artifacts or rings or donuts.

I don't quite get how he did it, but Gene managed to make a true all-rounder. Close-up, the spill is almost like a floody light(it's so wide) that you can use to see anything immediately in front of you. Far away the spill will be more or less useless, but the hotspot would be concentrated enough to see things far away.

Now, I just have to wait for that hated sun to go down so I can extend the daylight hours with my light:candle:.

Anyone knows what the runtimes are like on an AW 18650 2600mAh battery?


----------



## Swedpat

When I read the descriptions of the beam of M61 it sounds like it's similar to Fenix TK10. Anyone compared them?


----------



## Wilmette

I actually got a little frustrated constantly missing the buy window on an M61 drop-in, thanks to my work schedule, and just bought Gene's MD2 turnkey with the M61 preinstalled. It came yesterday and what a sweet light, IMHO!

I'm still adjusting to the LED world. Most of my stuff is incan which, from reading endlessly here, is a holy war unto itself. I think the M61 is impressive. I especially like the smooth transition from spot to spill.


----------



## LowFlux

Got mine today, and love it. :wave: I much prefer the beam profile of the M61 to the M60. Gene made a real winner! lovecpf

Not dark here yet though.


----------



## CLBME

Hi Swedpat,

I'm expecting my MD2 with M61 anyday. When I receive it I can tell you. I sold my TK10 to buy the MD2. I asked the same question a while ago. Let me see if I can find it for you.

Here it is: see #1069 in this thread. 



Swedpat said:


> When I read the descriptions of the beam of M61 it sounds like it's similar to Fenix TK10. Anyone compared them?


----------



## Swedpat

Thanks CLBME! 

Regards, Patric


----------



## RedLED

dirtech said:


> This thread is epic. They are already out of stock. I don't even need one, but subscribed for the notification just to see what happens.


 
Agreed. It may very well be the most prolific thread ever in flashlight history involving a drop-in, and we should feel honored to be a part of the Malkoff legend.


----------



## CLBME

Hi again Swedpat,

I rec'd my MD2 w M61 today. I haven't used it outside for throw or any distance but I did use it in the dark basement.

My TK10 had a very tight hot spot- really noticeable. The M61 doesn't have the same tight hot spot but it's very bright in the center of the beam and then spills out very nicely and evenly providing for great flood. As Nightkids said it seems to be a very "useable" bright light in terms of its beam pattern. Just using it in the basement for minute or two I can say I'm happier with it's beam pattern for all around use. I will post more when I've used it outside and checked its throw compared to the TK10.



Swedpat said:


> When I read the descriptions of the beam of M61 it sounds like it's similar to Fenix TK10. Anyone compared them?


----------



## ajl

For those who missed out earlier, they are available again at the time of this posting ...


----------



## kyhunter1

28 left, may last ten minutes......


----------



## dwminer

21 left


----------



## ZZIXX

Woo hoo, finally was able to snag one :twothumbs.


----------



## Sardaukar

ajl said:


> For those who missed out earlier, they are available again at the time of this posting ...



Glad I checked this thread! I just bought one. Thank you! :rock:


----------



## edelbrock

Wow! This run has lasted a while. I just got one.


----------



## thebeans

Finally got my first Malkoff. 

There were 6 left after I ordered. Now there are 5 left as of 9:00 PM Eastern time.


----------



## thebeans

*ONLY 1 LEFT NOW>>>>>>*


----------



## 276

i finally got one.


----------



## thebeans

*All gone now. That took much longer than usual. Maybe most folks that want one have one now. *


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Glad to see Gene is starting to pump these out. :twothumbs


----------



## skwei

there's still 8 unit left ! hurry up guys.......

....however it wasn't the M61 drop-in, but it is the turn-key MD2 instead !


----------



## sfca

May I ask the individual weight of the M61/M60 modules. Head-heavy?


----------



## Swedpat

CLBME said:


> Hi again Swedpat,
> 
> I rec'd my MD2 w M61 today. I haven't used it outside for throw or any distance but I did use it in the dark basement.
> 
> My TK10 had a very tight hot spot- really noticeable. The M61 doesn't have the same tight hot spot but it's very bright in the center of the beam and then spills out very nicely and evenly providing for great flood. As Nightkids said it seems to be a very "useable" bright light in terms of its beam pattern. Just using it in the basement for minute or two I can say I'm happier with it's beam pattern for all around use. I will post more when I've used it outside and checked its throw compared to the TK10.




Thanks, I am looking forward for your report!

Regards, Patric


----------



## txgp17

I'll be itching to get my hands on a M61WL.


----------



## lightsandknives

Just received my M61 from Gene. I must say it's my favorite beam pattern, just beautiful transition from spot to spill!


----------



## Bright_Light

txgp17 said:


> I'll be itching to get my hands on a M61WL.


 
Or even an M61WLL. Wonder what kind of runtime that could have? Very good I assume.


----------



## Darvis

Got mine today, very nice beam pattern, much tighter hot spot than the my other XP-G based lights and a very nice tint as well, not a hint of green at all. This one's a keeper! The perfect compliment to my EG custom HA 6P bored for an 18650..


----------



## Reaper

Just received my M61, put it in my MD2 which housed my M60L and went to my darker than hell attic. Compared to the M60L, the M61 has a pleasing room lighting flood but on low it's slightly greenish. M60L beats out the M61 in having a hotter spot but I expected this from the way it was designed so it was no surprise. What surprised me is that on low - it's lower than the M60L (and slightly greenish ). I thought it would be the opposite due to the higher output factor but I guess I was wrong again. Since my purpose for the Malkoff's is a general every day use ( from walking the dog at night to whatever ) I believe the M61 in the MD2 will work out well. I'll try it out for a few days to see. If it does, then the M06L stay in my 2 or 3 cell 6P for it's longer run-time.


----------



## 021411

My M61 will be used in a low light shooting class tomorrow. I'll let you know how it turns out.


----------



## Sardaukar

021411 said:


> My M61 will be used in a low light shooting class tomorrow. I'll let you know how it turns out.



Pistol or rifle? I've always wanted to take a class like this. Two of my favorite hobbies.


----------



## 021411

Sardaukar said:


> Pistol or rifle? I've always wanted to take a class like this. Two of my favorite hobbies.


Pistol. I was debating using my M60W MC-E but wasn't sure on how far we will have to shoot. I'd rather bring something with "punch" for the long range targets.


----------



## Sgt. LED

I bet it'll be closer than you think.

Take both.  Swap as needed.


----------



## ToNIX

Wow I'm tempted by the Turn-key HA Flashlight (MD2), but the High/Low Bezel Switch for MD2 is not in stock! OMG, what do I do?


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Order the turnkey MD2, pay for the high/low switch and ask him to send it when it is available. Probably won't charge you extra shipping for the switch, which is very light, and small. Start this process with an email to him.

Bill


----------



## ToNIX

Bullzeyebill said:


> Order the turnkey MD2, pay for the high/low switch and ask him to send it when it is available. Probably won't charge you extra shipping for the switch, which is very light, and small. Start this process with an email to him.
> 
> Bill



Thanks for the heads up! I'll email him NOW 

EDIT : I've been looking for the last 15 minutes, I can't find beamshots of the M60 vs the M61 (only the indoor youtube video). Can anyone point me to a post?


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

ToNIX said:


> Thanks for the heads up! I'll email him NOW
> 
> EDIT : I've been looking for the last 15 minutes, I can't find beamshots of the M60 vs the M61 (only the indoor youtube video). Can anyone point me to a post?



I posted some in this thread. Somewhere.


----------



## ToNIX

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I posted some in this thread. Somewhere.



Found them by looking at all your posts, thanks 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3296490&postcount=685


----------



## Kestrel

LOL, you know it's a long thread when the posters don't even know where their posts are. :huh:


----------



## DM51

You can find your own (or other people's) posts in a thread by using the "Search this Thread" box at the bottom of the page, below the Quick Reply box.


----------



## Sardaukar

Just received the M61 today. This thing is bright.  Can't wait to play with it tonight.


----------



## edelbrock

Received mine today also. My first Malkoff! :candle: It has found a temporary home in a FM 1x26650 host. Going to test the runtime from a freshly charged IMR26650. Beautiful beam and great craftsmanship. I think I will be a repeat customer. Now to find a M60 to see what I missed. :thinking:


----------



## Max_Power

The M60 is great, and the M60W is even better.


----------



## Swedpat

Max_Power said:


> The M60 is great, and the M60W is even better.



I am waiting for a M60WL to be back in stock for my Surefire 6P Metal Gun Gray!


----------



## 276

Just got my M61 today looking forward to later tonight!


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

edelbrock said:


> Received mine today also. My first Malkoff! :candle: It has found a temporary home in a FM 1x26650 host. Going to test the runtime from a freshly charged IMR26650. Beautiful beam and great craftsmanship. I think I will be a repeat customer. Now to find a M60 to see what I missed. :thinking:



Please share your runtime results here! The IMR26650 is 2300mAh? :thinking:


----------



## edelbrock

It is a Batteryspace.com IMR26650. It is labeled as 4000mAH. I do not know what the true capacity of it is. I will report back when it is over. It make take a while.  


PoliceScannerMan said:


> Please share your runtime results here! The IMR26650 is 2300mAh? :thinking:


----------



## Bullzeyebill

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Please share your runtime results here! The IMR26650 is 2300mAh? :thinking:



It is rated at 4000mAh.

Bill


----------



## sfca

Anyone care to share weight specs of the module?


----------



## CR123_CR123_CR123

i just got mine and totally like it, i bounced it off the ceiling and it really lights up the room, almost lantern like. Right now it lives in the SF G2L. My question is what to do with the SF P60L-WH that it replaces. 

Shine on!


----------



## Sgt. LED

Take a heavy hammer and smash that piece of crap. Ooooooh or you could give it to someone you don't like. :nana:

I don't like the SF P60L. Worst thing Surefire makes IMO.


----------



## edelbrock

Ok so 4 hours later I pulled the battery. Started at 4.15V. Ended at 2.87V. I know it is not good for the IMR battery running them down so low. But it is nice to know you can get 4+ hrs from one in an emergency. 


edelbrock said:


> It is a Batteryspace.com IMR26650. It is labeled as 4000mAH. I do not know what the true capacity of it is. I will report back when it is over. It make take a while.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Thanks guys, i may have been thinking about the 26500.


----------



## pilote

Sgt. LED said:


> Take a heavy hammer and smash that piece of crap. Ooooooh or you could give it to someone you don't like. :nana:
> 
> I don't like the SF P60L. Worst thing Surefire makes IMO.



...your opinion only.

i got 3 G2L with the P60L, and have 3 more P60L's in reserve...they are perfectly fine general purpose flashlights; they provide light in dark areas; they do the job.

i got the full fleet of malkoffs, as well as multiple DX $8 burners, so i know what's available...

outside of these forums, everyone else considers flashlights as tools not toys...

---

my opinion of the m61...a hybrid malkoff, 30% flood, 70% throw...it won't be my primary use malkoff, i prefer the m60; but i'm glad i have one in my inventory...


----------



## Kestrel

Sgt. LED said:


> I don't like the SF P60L. Worst thing Surefire makes IMO.


+1 :sick2:



pilote said:


> [...] outside of these forums, everyone else considers flashlights as tools not toys


Actually, it appears to me that the preponderance of evidence is such that most people outside these forums don't consider flashlights at all ... :shakehead


----------



## CallMeDave

I told myself "no more non-warm lights" but myself didn't listen.
Good news, it's warmer then the XP-G in my early-build Quark Turbo 123x2.
But compared to my M60W and M60WFL it's too cool for school.

Weight came in at 36.4 grams.

Here are some pix:





























Host is bored 9P:


----------



## jimmy1970

Man, that a nice looking host you've got there. I've got the 6P with that same SS bezel ring - awesome stuff!!

Just don't take too many photos of that drop-in outside the host - would hate to get dust and other crap on the reflector!!

Thanks for the pics,

James....:thumbsup:


----------



## Axion

When oh when are we going to see an M61W? Ahh well I suppose it's best if they don't come for a while, gives the back account time to recover from the limited edition Warm Quarks.


----------



## purelite

How come some of these have hand scribed model numbers on them and some do not?


----------



## ElectronGuru

purelite said:


> How come some of these have hand scribed model numbers on them and some do not?



Gene hand scribes drop ins he makes himself. Labels indicate factory production.


----------



## Sgt. LED

pilote said:


> ...your opinion only.


 Really?!  I guess you did not understand what IMO means. Or perhaps you expect me to go around giving other peoples opinion for them instead of my own? No, not unless I'm getting paid to.

I am not an expert so anything I type on any website for any reason is indeed my opinion. 

Dave, excellent pics man.


----------



## purelite

HMMM, I got one of the early M61s that were supposedly "hand assembled" but there is no engraving. This was from the first run of these. No label no engraving on it. :shrug:


----------



## boats

MD2 with the M61 came in Fridays mail. I like it, worth the wait. Great fill, Does not seem to throw any further but way more light. Build quality and finish as good as it gets

Boats


----------



## dss_777

boats said:


> MD2 with the M61 came in Fridays mail. I like it, worth the wait. Great fill, Does not seem to throw any further but way more light. Build quality and finish as good as it gets
> 
> Boats



My experience too, except for not having an M60 to compare it to. 

Phenomenal build quality, and the M61 is quite impressve. I had an incan G2 and a E2E winelight for quite a while, then in the last month got a G2L, followed quickly by the MD2 with M61. Yowzers!


----------



## wmirag

My previous experience with Malkoff is the M60L in a SF-G2. It makes a phenominal work light.

I just got the MD2/M61 as a backup to my EDC: SF-T1A. I wanted something for those occasions where you might need a LOT of light. It's a "light up the world light" with a pattern similar to the SF-M6; less light, of course, but so much in so small a package and so much more economical to fuel. Very solidly built.

W.


----------



## TheTest

Got one of the last run that were released, hoping the volcano problem won't interfere with delivery to Britain too drastically :green:. My 6p is waiting


----------



## solloron1

They are back in stock 45 left when i last looked. Got mine :twothumbs


----------



## dss_777

30 units left!

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/m61-mod-to-fit-surefire-p-7.html


----------



## civic77

Thanks for the information solloron!! Didn't know they were available again and finally ordered one, thanks.


----------



## Talldog77656

Just got 3 of them :twothumbs


----------



## TMedina

Down to 27 units, minus mine. 

-Trevor


----------



## RWT1405

Just got 3 more! 

My .02 FWIW YMMV


----------



## DimmerD

Snagarooski for meeski!
12 left


----------



## prop

Just got mine too...Its my first Malkoff and at a 104$ total im kind of wondering if i did the right thing, i wasnt counting on spending that much money right now, but i thought id better act before theyre all sold out again.....The M61 will replace my standard LED lamp-assembly in my Surefire 6P duty light.

Down to 12 units now.


----------



## ToNIX

*Re: when will Malkoff update their dropins?*

Item is back in stock.

M61 : 7 Units in Stock
TurnKey MD2 with High/Low Switch : 4 Units in Stock (There was 5, but I ordered one )

I was in the pool, missed the alert on my cell phone. I just happen to refresh the page after changing my clothes  Ohhhhhh yeah! I would have cried if I missed that


----------



## AC_Doctor

FINALLY, score X2!!! :twothumbs Who can bore out my Surefire 6P Defender to accept a 18650 battery? Any idea what they charge?

TIA,

AC


----------



## Woods Walker

Looks like there is now only 6 in stock but going to hold off for a M61L.


----------



## solloron1

civic77 said:


> Thanks for the information solloron!! Didn't know they were available again and finally ordered one, thanks.



No prob. i no they are hard to come by


----------



## solloron1

Woods Walker said:


> Looks like there is now only 6 in stock but going to hold off for a M61L.



Has there been any word about other versions of it?


----------



## Woods Walker

solloron1 said:


> Has there been any word about other versions of it?


 
I have not heard any but guessing it will happen.


----------



## JohnnyLED

Tried to get one.
Not sure if it worked... now -1 in stock...


----------



## Kestrel

JohnnyLED said:


> Tried to get one.
> Not sure if it worked... now -1 in stock...


Congratulations, you got # *0*! :huh:


----------



## JohnnyLED

Kestrel said:


> Congratulations, you got # *0*! :huh:



there were 2 in stock when I added it to my cart... I guess I will see, I forgot that I already bought a M61. Two is better than one I guess.


----------



## Dioni

Finally, I'll have a Malkoff :bow:


----------



## jimmy1970

Just a note to guys picking up their first M61 who haven't chosen a host yet, below are my own personal findings:

1. *MD2/3/4 host* - nice, full beam with a smooth outer spill beam.:twothumbs

2. *Surefire 6P with the standard plastic bezel ring* - slightly narrower spill beam with an outer spill with the little dimples around the edge - (which I personally find annoying as the M61s' spill is so bright but others may not care).

3. *Surefire 6P with aftermarket SS Plain Bezel Ring*, (bottom photo) - spill beam with a noticeably reduced width with a sharp outer spill edge.

4. *Old round 6P* - full width beam without the little dimples around the edge of the beam due to no light blocking bezel ring. (The host in this photo on the left)










I only noticed this when I removed the M61 from my round 6P and tried it in the MD2 host & my new style 6P host. I have since moved it back to the round 6P and IMHO, it offers a much better overall spill beam than the newer style 6P. You loose maybe 10-15% beam width with a host equipped with a SS plain bezel ring that blocks some of the spill. 

In summary, either the MD2 or the round 6P provide the widest and smoothest outer spill beam.

James.....:thumbsup:


----------



## purelite

Ok, you gotta stop putting up pics of that 6P/M61 and Orange oring in there!!!! I cant take it!!!!!!!

I am surprised at your findings with different hosts. When I look at an MD2 head(I dont own one) it looks like the opening on the busiiness end is much narrower and would thus cause some of the spill to be cutoff. with the 6p style head it is more "open" and the window is larger and you can see the whole face of the dropin even the brass and to me this should result in more light getting out the front in the form of spill. 

This doesnt make sense? unless it is because the M61 dropin sits closer to the front of the head on the MD2 and it is more recessed in the 6P?


----------



## jimmy1970

I think you hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph. The MD2 head opening is much smaller but as the opening sits so close to the outer edge of the reflector, a larger opening is not required.

I too was surprised by the loss of spill caused by the SS bezel ring. Even the standard plastic bezel ring of the 6P blocks part of the spill beam.

You don't really notice any of the spill blockage with the M60's due to the beam shape.

If you remove the plastic bezel ring from the modern 6P bezel, then turn on the light, you will be looking at a noticibly larger beam pattern similar to that of the old style 6P. 

Anyway, just my observations.

James...



purelite said:


> Ok, you gotta stop putting up pics of that 6P/M61 and Orange oring in there!!!! I cant take it!!!!!!!
> 
> I am surprised at your findings with different hosts. When I look at an MD2 head(I dont own one) it looks like the opening on the busiiness end is much narrower and would thus cause some of the spill to be cutoff. with the 6p style head it is more "open" and the window is larger and you can see the whole face of the dropin even the brass and to me this should result in more light getting out the front in the form of spill.
> 
> *This doesnt make sense? unless it is because the M61 dropin sits closer to the front of the head on the MD2 and it is more recessed in the 6P?[/*QUOTE]


----------



## Bullzeyebill

jimmy1970 said:


> *This doesnt make sense? unless it is because the M61 dropin sits closer to the front of the head on the MD2 and it is more recessed in the 6P?[/*QUOTE]



The edge pattern with the MD2 may be less defined than the SF head with plastic bezel retainer ring. I do believe that you will see more output, lumens, with the SF setup than the MD2, though not enough to make any real difference. Makes me want to do a bounce with luxmeter reading comparing the two heads....

Bill


----------



## purelite

I am thinking with the SF Z44 with the SS bezel ring the side spill hits the polished SS ring and reflects the light back into the main beam thus producing more intensity in the hotspot!!!! Yeah , I would believe that!!


----------



## jimmy1970

purelite said:


> I am thinking with the SF Z44 with the SS bezel ring the side spill hits the polished SS ring and reflects the light back into the main beam thus producing more intensity in the hotspot!!!! Yeah , I would believe that!!


Yes, the light has to go somewhere right!?!

James.....


----------



## DimeRazorback

Just grabbed one from unique titanium!

 

It's gonna be a long wait!


----------



## jimmy1970

DimeRazorback said:


> Just grabbed one from unique titanium!
> 
> 
> 
> It's gonna be a long wait!


 And well worth every second. I love mine.

James....


----------



## Sgt. LED

I also just ordered an M61 from uniquetitanium. 

*I wish I had known they had them 2 weeks ago!* 
What the heck, why didn't I know there was another retailer of Malkoff stuff with items in stock. I could be using it by now if I'd of known!


----------



## AnotherADDiction

They are Out Of Stock :mecry:


----------



## DimeRazorback

If you like the Malkoff MD2 you can still get the M61 in the turnkey option 

Or you could just sell off the MD2 once it arrives.


----------



## jimmy1970

Congratulations on your new M61. I know you were going to wait for a M61L but you are going to love the M61!

Have fun,

James...



Sgt. LED said:


> I also just ordered an M61 from uniquetitanium.
> 
> *I wish I had known they had them 2 weeks ago!*
> What the heck, why didn't I know there was another retailer of Malkoff stuff with items in stock. I could be using it by now if I'd of known!


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Sgt. LED said:


> *I wish I had known they had them 2 weeks ago!*
> What the heck, why didn't I know there was another retailer of Malkoff stuff with items in stock. I could be using it by now if I'd of known!



Not a secret, dealers are listed on Gene's website.

Bill


----------



## solloron1

Just got mine today :twothumbs and cant wait till it gets dark!!


----------



## Winx

Mine is also coming from Unique Titanium.

I don't have a host for it.


----------



## wmirag

I git the Hi/Lo bezel for my MD2/M61. It's a great upgrade that works perfectly.

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/...d2-p-58.html?zenid=0qihplupqevgnuo5vvcqbgpc43


----------



## Sgt. LED

Bullzeyebill said:


> Not a secret, dealers are listed on Gene's website.
> 
> Bill


 The key part of my statement to read is the "in stock" part. I thought his dealers had all sold out too.


----------



## DimeRazorback

They had last time I checked, then I popped on there the other day looking for something completely different and I saw that the M61 was in stock... I thought it was just an out of date stock system.


----------



## DimeRazorback

There are now 26 in stock on Gene's website


----------



## emac

19 left....I finally snagged one


----------



## artdeg

wmirag said:


> I git the Hi/Lo bezel for my MD2/M61. It's a great upgrade that works perfectly.
> 
> http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/...d2-p-58.html?zenid=0qihplupqevgnuo5vvcqbgpc43


 
Mine worked for a short time and no longer works in the low mode. Anyone else has the same problem?


----------



## BIGLOU

I do not have this problem yet but have heard some CPFers mention it. I read something about bending the little wire back or something be careful not to break it off also heard someone called Gene and them getting a replacement or something.


----------



## dss_777

artdeg said:


> Mine worked for a short time and no longer works in the low mode. Anyone else has the same problem?



Send an email to Gene. Their customer service is really unlike just about anything I've ever seen. They'll help you.

[email protected]


----------



## DeerBear 2000

Just order my first Malkoff product M61 can't wait for it to get here 5 left.


----------



## SimpleIsGood229

PoliceScannerMan mentioned this a few pages back, but I think it's worth re-posting: 
*don't forget to remove the protective film from the M61/MD2 window*. 

I was unhappy that my window was cloudy and scratched. Fortunately, I came across Mr. PSM's post before bugging Gene. Thanks a bunch, PSM. :thumbsup:


----------



## jimmy1970

3 left....

This was the first time I have ever visited the Malkoff Devices website and ever seen any M61s' in stock!!

James....


----------



## Kid9P

Your killing me James....

Must resist, spent my flashlight cash on a new firearm :devil:

No lights until next month :mecry:


----------



## kyhunter1

I already have a M61, so I guess I will be nice and let someone else buy the last one. :nana:


----------



## jimmy1970

Out of stock again!!

Man, I wish I had the demand for my flooring products as Gene's has for these M61's.

James.....:naughty:


----------



## solloron1

It really is different from the m60, but its a good different i really like the way it lights up the room. Now i would love to see a nice warm edition with high cri. That would be the perfect drop-in imho.


----------



## ToNIX

I have just received me MD2/m61/high-low switch.

Guess what, all my 18650 batteries are at the job! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

I guess I'll have to test it tomorrow on my night shift  A perfect way to start the day and it gets ruined at the same time. 

Wow, I never thought it would be so quick to ship! Ordered Sunday and it's already in Canada  Thank you Gene 

EDIT : Finally opened it. There are 2 123 batteries in it  WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. I feel like a kid! Awesome! There's even a "thank you" note written by Cathy Malkoff  I have a feeling the TK11 will be less used.


----------



## Sparky's Magic

The only problem, as I see it, is that the M61 makes all your old favorites seem like toys.
In an MD2 host there is nothing that even comes close...so many redundant 'Lights!
And after all, your best light is the one you reach for when you want to illuminate something.
This is state of the Art; and i'll reach for the MD2/M61 every time!


----------



## Noctis

Sparky's Magic said:


> The only problem, as I see it, is that the M61 makes all your old favorites seem like toys.
> In an MD2 host there is nothing that even comes close...so many redundant 'Lights!
> And after all, your best light is the one you reach for when you want to illuminate something.
> This is state of the Art; and i'll reach for the MD2/M61 every time!


On the contrary, My SST-90 Direct Drive light has made my M61 look like a toy.

But given that the SST-90 is for fun while the M61 would be excellent in an actual emergency, that should logically be the other way around.

I'd like to see what kind of runtime I get with am FM 1x26650 host and an M61, though I'm still fussing over the bezel head. The Nite finned head has a much smaller opening and doesn't let me take full advantage of the super wide spill of the M61. My FM Turbohead is okay, but it sort of messes up the beam and won't let me pocket the light.

With a standard Z44 bezel the tail looks fatter than the head and it looks off-balance. I'm considering the M2 Bezel but it looks like it might suffer the same problem because the few pictures I did see of that head made it seem like the module sits awfully deep inside and also cuts off a good chunk of the spill.


----------



## Sgt. LED

Yeah. If you like the spill leave the M2 bezel alone!


----------



## ANDREAS FERRARI

ToNIX said:


> There's even a "thank you" note written by Cathy Malkoff.....



I have my first handwritten 'Thank You' note from Cathy mounted on a frame!!!!

Kinda' makes you feel like your part of a family-doesn't it?


----------



## Unclemonkey

ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> I have my first handwritten 'Thank You' note from Cathy mounted on a frame!!!!
> 
> Kinda' makes you feel like your part of a family-doesn't it?



I still have my first receipt with the personalized thank you note. It's lovely. True customer service.lovecpf


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

One of Genes dealers, Bright Flashlights, has M61's in stock. Kevin over at BFL has always been great to deal with over there!! My second M61 from Bright Flashlights arrived yesterday. :naughty:

Phone ordering is the best way to deal with him, I belive he takes PP. 

Now to wait for the Neutral/Warm M61's.


----------



## Ten32

PoliceScannerMan said:


> One of Genes dealers, Bright Flashlights, has M61's in stock. Kevin over at BFL has always been great to deal with over there!! My second M61 from Bright Flashlights arrived yesterday. :naughty:
> 
> Phone ordering is the best way to deal with him, I belive he takes PP.
> 
> Now to wait for the Neutral/Warm M61's.


 
:twothumbs +1

I got mine from Brightflashlights on Wednesday and put it in a Z2. I'm on duty second shift and have been looking for any excuse to light something up. I bought an M30 for a 3P lego, from them and was impressed. The M61 is incredible, and Kevin is very patient with the numerous questions I've had.


----------



## GarageBoy

Hey, umh, slightly off topic, but judging by Neoseikan's photos, his drop ins are looking VERY similar to Malkoff's. Patent infringement issues?


----------



## jimmy1970

GarageBoy said:


> Hey, umh, slightly off topic, but judging by Neoseikan's photos, his drop ins are looking VERY similar to Malkoff's. Patent infringement issues?


+1. I was thinking the same thing....

James....


----------



## Noctis

GarageBoy said:


> Hey, umh, slightly off topic, but judging by Neoseikan's photos, his drop ins are looking VERY similar to Malkoff's. Patent infringement issues?


I've noticed this as well.




*waits for the drama*


----------



## wingnutLP

GarageBoy said:


> Hey, umh, slightly off topic, but judging by Neoseikan's photos, his drop ins are looking VERY similar to Malkoff's. Patent infringement issues?



I have asked this already on this thread but got no reply. Can anyone explain what Malkoff's patents actually are?

His drop inns are great products but I can't really see anything patentable in them...


----------



## TMedina

You could always ask the man himself - failing that, you can put a patent on quite a few things.

Off the top of my head, Malkoff is the first to use the self-encapsulated brass housing with a regulated runtime. Throw in the self-contained lens of the M60/M60F series and you have a unique combination that lends itself to being patented.

Disclaimer: I'm not a patent lawyer or similar expert, so any opinion expressed is strictly that.

-Trevor


----------



## Bullzeyebill

GarageBoy said:


> Hey, umh, slightly off topic, but judging by Neoseikan's photos, his drop ins are looking VERY similar to Malkoff's. Patent infringement issues?



If there is enough interest in this topic a new thread needs to be started, but not continued here. I would caution that this will be a very controversial topic. 

Bill


----------



## Sgt. LED

I agree. I also hope that thread contains someone who can speak about the actual product that they own instead of seeing a pic and getting ideas about legality.
There may indeed be an issue here but I sure as hell can't condemn someone from the 1 image I have seen. But whatever.......I'm just cranky when I get up.


----------



## FORCETEN

i was lucky enough to get one of those m61 inserts from malkoff. i'm sorry i didn't get one earlier! i now need 3 more for all my work lights.


----------



## wingnutLP

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/7633229.html



> *BRIEF SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION *
> 
> The present invention includes a drop-in LED module that can be inserted into a conventional flashlight to increase the light output of the flashlight. The module includes a heat sink, a high power LED, and an LED driver circuit. The LED is mounted on the heat sink and designed to receive its maximum rated current. The driver circuit is connected to the LED, mounted on the heat sink, and designed to supply the LED with its maximum rated current. The heat sink is designed to be inserted into the flashlight body of the flashlight so that the driver circuit receives power from batteries included in the flashlight and supplies the maximum rated current to the LED. Heat generated by the LED when it receives this current is channeled away from the LED by the heat sink into the flashlight body. The present invention also includes a conventional flashlight reflector modified so that it can be used with the module of the present invention to create a new modified flashlight with a light output that is greater than the light output of conventional flashlights.
> The light output generated by the LED of the present invention is brighter than the light output generated by conventional LED flashlights because the LED is supplied with its maximum rated current. The LEDs used in conventional LED flashlights are generally not supplied with their maximum rated currents because they are not properly heatsinked, overheat, and fail. In some prior art LED flashlights, the LEDs are supplied with their maximum rated currents until they begin to overheat, at which time control circuitry in these flashlights reduces the current, and the corresponding light output, to a lower current level in order to prevent the LEDs from overheating. The module of the present invention, however, includes a heat sink that allows the LED used in the present invention to be continually driven at its maximum rated current because it dissipates the heat that would otherwise damage the LED in the flashlight body used with the invention.


It looks to me like what he has patented, unless there are other patents that I have not found, boils down to a heatsink to carry heat from the LED to the body of the light. It doesn't state the material of the heat sink anywhere.

I am not a patent lawyer and I am from the UK rather than USA but I do run a company that holds quite a few patents.

Using a heatsink to carry heat away from an electronic component is not a new idea and simply transferring that idea into a new electronic application is in my experience considered an obvious innovation.


----------



## SuperTrouper

Correct me if I'm wrong here but the M60, which these new drop ins from Neoseikan seem similar to, doesn't seem to be available anymore.

Surely this is good news for us as consumers as we may get another source of this much sought after type of drop in as currently there seems to be no way to obtain a genuine M60 short of someone selling one second hand.


----------



## kyhunter1

The Neoseikan does look alot like a M60. Who cares, most every manufacturer around here copy each others stuff all the time and you all do not :mecry:, and continue to buy torches from them. The M60 is not made now, and is very hard to find one if desired to do so like another member mentioned. A while back, I tried to get Gene to make me a M60 with my own Surefire TIR optic and he did not have the time or desire to put it together for me. I dont know if I will purchase a Neo. or not, but will consider after more performance/runtime specs and beamshots come in. It will fill a niche left void by the former M60 around here IMO.


----------



## MrGman

M60's are being made under License from Elzetta and will continue to be in their flashlight. Gene is not making them anymore.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

As I posted earlier, a new thread needs to be started re the patent issue. This is an interesting subject but is not appropriate for this thread.

Bill


----------



## bullfrog

Well ive had my M61 for a few months now and I just could not be happier - I was very hesitant at first because I thought that the amount of flood vs. the tighter spot on the M60 would be a deal breaker. Boy was I wrong. I've never felt that I needed more punch from the M61 and the amount of flood is just awesome.

BRING ON THE WARMS!!!


----------



## Sgt. LED

Yes! I want a LW........ And an LLW too


----------



## wingnutLP

Bullzeyebill said:


> As I posted earlier, a new thread needs to be started re the patent issue. This is an interesting subject but is not appropriate for this thread.
> 
> Bill



Agreed, can a mod please split the thread?


----------



## JNewell

Sgt. LED said:


> Yes! I want a LW........ And an LLW too



Have there been any reports that Gene is working on these???


----------



## TMedina

No official report, but judging by the howling, myself included, I suspect we'll see some in the future. 

Mr. Malkoff did mention M31s, which has me drooling.

The M60s will remain in production as mentioned in a posting to CPF - for people who want throwers moreso than the heavier balance of M61s.

-Trevor


----------



## Swedpat

JNewell said:


> Have there been any reports that Gene is working on these???



I don't know about LW but I know L will come. I would prefer a LW if it would be available...


----------



## funkymonkey1111

I can use the M61 in a surefire G3, correct?

i've had no problems with a bugout gear drop-in in a regular, incan G2 head (not the metal head). 

I generally only have the light on for a few seconds at a time--has anyone had any issue with using an M61 in a non-metal G2 head?


----------



## purelite

Gene strongly urges you not to . But its a free country (actually its not anymore) . I think damage to the dropin could theoretically occur due to lack of good heatsinking in a plastic head. But I gotta say it doesnt seem to get all that hot in my 6P but Mr. Malkoff doesnt put the warning in there for nothing.. They must have tested it and had issue occur.


----------



## carrot

The warning was for the older, less efficient XR-E LED, not for the XP-G. It is still unknown as to whether or not it is safe to run the M61 with XP-G in a plastic host.


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Yup, the M61 runs cool as the other side of the pillow.


----------



## Gene43

You can run it for up to 15 minutes continuous in an all plastic light. Intermittant use should be ok.


----------



## Alberta-Blue

I am keeping my fingers (and toes) crossed for a good run of M61 Neturals... god that would be the perfect duty light...

or better yet... an M31N!! 

OH YEAH!!!... I need to go change my underpants now...


----------



## Curias

I have a lonely M61 sitting around with no host.

I really want as much regulated runtime as possible.

Does anyone know about how much regulated runtime I would get with the MD4 with 2 18650 2600 mAh batteries?

Would it be much more than 2 cr123s?


----------



## Alberta-Blue

Curias said:


> I have a lonely M61 sitting around with no host.
> 
> I really want as much regulated runtime as possible.
> 
> Does anyone know about how much regulated runtime I would get with the MD4 with 2 18650 2600 mAh batteries?
> 
> Would it be much more than 2 cr123s?


 
I am gonna ball park that you could increase your runteme by 50-60% with the set-up that your suggesting.


----------



## Bright_Light

Sgt. LED said:


> Yes! I want a LW........ And an LLW too


 
Hear, hear! Oh man... this would make for the PERFECT close-task worklight! :twothumbs


----------



## Kestrel

Curias said:


> I really want as much regulated runtime as possible. Does anyone know about how much regulated runtime I would get with the MD4 with 2 18650 2600 mAh batteries? Would it be much more than 2 cr123s?





Alberta-Blue said:


> I am gonna ball park that you could increase your runteme by 50-60% with the set-up that your suggesting.


My calculations (w/ referenced data, holding wattage drains constant between the two configurations) suggest 2 x 9 wh = 18 watt-hours vs 5.2 wh from 2x CR123 = *at least triple the runtime compared to 2x CR123*. YMMV.

If you'd like more than that there is always the FiveMega 2x26650 P60 body plus the LiCo 4500 mAh 26650's that AW is thinking about introducing (post in his thread if your interested :devil for something like 31 watt-hours, so like *6x the runtime over 2x CR123*. Fun stuff.


----------



## MrGman

Just having more fun. 

More testing to come, still waiting on some help to do more. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhOoBlDuWcE

Camera is zoomed in somewhat so you can't use that to gauge distance. The "target" is 11 inches long. Distance from lights is about 30 to 33 feet range.


----------



## kyhunter1

Ah, now we have the top secret helicopter of truth. :nana:




MrGman said:


> Just having more fun.
> 
> More testing to come, still waiting on some help to do more.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhOoBlDuWcE
> 
> Camera is zoomed in somewhat so you can't use that to gauge distance. The "target" is 11 inches long. Distance from lights is about 30 to 33 feet range.


----------



## sfca

MrGman said:


> Just having more fun.
> 
> More testing to come, still waiting on some help to do more.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhOoBlDuWcE
> 
> Camera is zoomed in somewhat so you can't use that to gauge distance. The "target" is 11 inches long. Distance from lights is about 30 to 33 feet range.




That is awwwesome


----------



## Dioni

kyhunter1 said:


> Ah, now we have the top secret helicopter of truth. :nana:


 
+1
hahah :laughing:


----------



## PoliceScannerMan

Nice flight skills Mr. Gman!!! Those lil heli's are tough to fly. Sweet video.


----------



## MrGman

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Nice flight skills Mr. Gman!!! Those lil heli's are tough to fly. Sweet video.


 
thanks, that's just the beginning. I need a cameraman as well as a light man, I have some cool stuff lined up, that I can't do by myself. And there is other top secret stuff on the horizon as well. Flashlights will be TESTED along with operator skills in tracking "_targets_". Haven't found any flashoholics to help in Cedar Rapido Iowahhhhhhhh.


----------



## edelbrock

Kestrel said:


> If you'd like more than that there is always the FiveMega 2x26650 P60 body plus the LiCo 4500 mAh 26650's that AW is thinking about introducing (post in his thread if your interested :devil for something like 31 watt-hours, so like *6x the runtime over 2x CR123*. Fun stuff.


 
The FM 2x26650 host is what I currently have my M61 in. I was going to do a runtime test but ran out of time. I cut it off at about 6 hrs and there was still plenty of charge left in the LiMN 4000mAh batteries. When I get 8 - 12 hrs of time at home I may try again.


----------



## carrot

MrGman said:


> thanks, that's just the beginning. I need a cameraman as well as a light man, I have some cool stuff lined up, that I can't do by myself. And there is other top secret stuff on the horizon as well. Flashlights will be TESTED along with operator skills in tracking "_targets_". Haven't found any flashoholics to help in Cedar Rapido Iowahhhhhhhh.


MrGman, it is my understanding that Rothrandir lives in Cedar Rapids, and happens to like guns.

Just so you know, Rothrandir is the guy who is making the brass for the Malkoffs and all the Malkoff bodies.


----------



## DimeRazorback

I received mine a couple of hours ago...

I love it!!

:twothumbs


----------



## TMedina

carrot said:


> MrGman, it is my understanding that Rothrandir lives in Cedar Rapids, and happens to like guns.
> 
> Just so you know, Rothrandir is the guy who is making the brass for the Malkoffs and all the Malkoff bodies.



Noooooo! Distract not the source of more Malkoff drop-ins! 

-Trevor


----------



## mega_lumens

Thanks Gene, now we know that M61 can be used to track alien choppers.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

carrot said:


> MrGman, it is my understanding that Rothrandir lives in Cedar Rapids, and happens to like guns.
> 
> Just so you know, Rothrandir is the guy who is making the brass for the Malkoffs and all the Malkoff bodies.



For you guys that did not make the 2010 SHOT show is Vegas, Rothrandir was there, as well as Gene, plus other awesome CPF'ers (me too-LOL), and also the great "carrot".

BTW, some neat new new stuff coming from Rothrandir, on Gene's site pretty soon.

Bill


----------



## ToNIX

Bullzeyebill said:


> BTW, some neat new new stuff coming from Rothrandir, on Gene's site pretty soon.



Such as? Share with us


----------



## non

Day 2 on the M61, Love the beam its half flood, half spot and ALL GOOD.


----------



## simplec6

So does anyone know when the M61 will be back in stock on his site? I'd love to snag one...


----------



## Unclemonkey

simplec6 said:


> So does anyone know when the M61 will be back in stock on his site? I'd love to snag one...



It should be any day now. make sure you're on the mailing list. Good Luck! you'll need it.


----------



## Noctis

Left my light on for about 15 minutes straight to see how the heat generation is VS heatsinking. While it's been tailstanding the whole time, the light feels lukewarm, and the module isn't much warmer than my SST-90 DD drop-in after 20 seconds.

Seems like it's just right as a user light. While it does feel underdriven at 0.9A draw, I can see now that the idea was for the light to be able to run continuously until the batteries died out.

It's still brighter than those old Maglites, and the runtime is simply delicious in a 26650 host.


----------



## DimmerD

simplec6 said:


> So does anyone know when the M61 will be back in stock on his site? I'd love to snag one...



The dropin's I scored were all done on Friday afternoons, just keep a sharp eye out around that time.


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## Reaper

I've been looking to get a Malkoff M30F with no luck HOWEVER I did run across a website that has (so far) the M61 in stock. I put one on checkout to see if it actually was in stock and it did show it but who knows for sure? Since I already have a couple I did not continue with purchase. The company is listed in Gene's dealer's list as TAC 1 Systems.com and I hope this helps anyone.


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## dss_777

I'll share a trick I got here: register for in-stock notifications using the MMS address for your phone instead of regular email. You'll get notified more quickly via a text message, and can order right away if at all possble. 

Also, the stock of turn-key flashlights seem to last a bit longer that the drop-ins. Genes' MD2 body is great quality if you could use a P60 style host already bored for 18650's and with a clicky switch. It's also the only way to get the high-low switches these days, it seems. With the cpf discount, it's a great deal, IMO!


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## simplec6

dss_777 said:


> I'll share a trick I got here: register for in-stock notifications using the MMS address for your phone instead of regular email. You'll get notified more quickly via a text message, and can order right away if at all possble.
> 
> Also, the stock of turn-key flashlights seem to last a bit longer that the drop-ins. Genes' MD2 body is great quality if you could use a P60 style host already bored for 18650's and with a clicky switch. It's also the only way to get the high-low switches these days, it seems. With the cpf discount, it's a great deal, IMO!


Sorry I'm new here, and I haven't run across the thread which shares the cpf discount details. Where would I go about finding this information? 


Thanks.


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## Kid9P

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=181841 :twothumbs


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## ToNIX

dss_777 said:


> I'll share a trick I got here: register for in-stock notifications using the MMS address for your phone instead of regular email. You'll get notified more quickly via a text message, and can order right away if at all possble.
> 
> Also, the stock of turn-key flashlights seem to last a bit longer that the drop-ins. Genes' MD2 body is great quality if you could use a P60 style host already bored for 18650's and with a clicky switch. It's also the only way to get the high-low switches these days, it seems. With the cpf discount, it's a great deal, IMO!



That's exactly what I did! SMS notification on the Turn-key MD2. Best purchase ever.


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## Unclemonkey

dss_777 said:


> I'll share a trick I got here: register for in-stock notifications using the MMS address for your phone instead of regular email. You'll get notified more quickly via a text message, and can order right away if at all possble.
> 
> Also, the stock of turn-key flashlights seem to last a bit longer that the drop-ins. Genes' MD2 body is great quality if you could use a P60 style host already bored for 18650's and with a clicky switch. It's also the only way to get the high-low switches these days, it seems. With the cpf discount, it's a great deal, IMO!



What discount???


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## Unclemonkey

Reaper said:


> I've been looking to get a Malkoff M30F with no luck HOWEVER I did run across a website that has (so far) the M61 in stock. I put one on checkout to see if it actually was in stock and it did show it but who knows for sure? Since I already have a couple I did not continue with purchase. The company is listed in Gene's dealer's list as TAC 1 Systems.com and I hope this helps anyone.



*note* you can only ship via UPS, which cost a little more.


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## Bullzeyebill

Unclemonkey said:


> What discount???



Read the posts here. Go back to post 1324, click on the link and scroll down to Malkoff.

Bill


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## Dioni

Kid9P said:


> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=181841 :twothumbs


 
Damn... I have not seen the Malkoff discount.


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## Bullzeyebill

aL01 said:


> I'm registered at the cpfmarketplace also, but that page doesn't load, what are the discounts?



Do you use same user name at marketplace that you use here on CPF? I just checked your CPF user name over there and it does not work.

Bill


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## aL01

Bullzeyebill said:


> Do you use same user name at marketplace that you use here on CPF? I just checked your CPF user name over there and it does not work.
> 
> Bill



Yes, but I registered it.....


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## Bullzeyebill

aL01, PM sent.

Bill


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## TMedina

I know about the discount, but every time I get a chance to order one of his modules, I get so excited I forget about it.

Which is fine - I'd rather have the module anyway. 

-Trevor


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## Dioni

TMedina said:


> I know about the discount, but every time I get a chance to order one of his modules, I get so excited I forget about it.
> 
> Which is fine - I'd rather have the module anyway.
> 
> -Trevor


 
Indeed. When I bought the M61 this ocurred. Gene had put around 40 modules for sale and when I went shopping there were 4 and counting down. Result: I didn't mind if there was discount or didn't. Ever since, I'm a happy owner of a M61.


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## jimmy1970

Went to a remote camping area last night in the mountains to visit my parents who were staying there for a couple of weeks. Very dark area at night with no light pollution - the stars were brighter than I have ever seen them before.

There were only a few other campers in the area and all had cheapo 2 cell style plastic lights that they were using to navigate their way from their sites to the toilet area.

Now, I've got 3 kids with me, which means very frequent trips to the toilet!

My father had his trusty 80 lumen E1B which I gave him. He boasted that he had the brightest light there. And it look like a powerhouse until I arrived with the 6P/M61 combo - not a fair combarison, I know, but that wonderful, huge and even beam of the M61 is just fantastic - the throw this thing has in a true, dark environment was very surprising.

As a true, all-rounder, no other drop-in comes close, IMHO. My recently purchased NailBender Diamond Dragon P60 drop in (200 lumens) looked like a candle in comparison to the Malkoff!

It is well worth the effort to test your lights in a non-light polluted area to realise their true potential.

James.....


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## Swedpat

Thanks for the story jimmy1970!

As you are telling, the true potential of a flashlight will be revealed when it's really dark. I actually became surprised how well my 6P with Malkoff M60LL performed at a non-light polluted area at night. 
I also have the Malkoff MD2 with M61 and high-low switch, and agree with you about the useful beam of M61. The very wide hotspot illuminates a large area and still reaches pretty far in the darkness. 

Regards, Patric


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## Noctis

jimmy1970 said:


> Went to a remote camping area last night in the mountains to visit my parents who were staying there for a couple of weeks. Very dark area at night with no light pollution - the stars were brighter than I have ever seen them before.
> 
> There were only a few other campers in the area and all had cheapo 2 cell style plastic lights that they were using to navigate their way from their sites to the toilet area.
> 
> Now, I've got 3 kids with me, which means very frequent trips to the toilet!
> 
> My father had his trusty 80 lumen E1B which I gave him. He boasted that he had the brightest light there. And it look like a powerhouse until I arrived with the 6P/M61 combo - not a fair combarison, I know, but that wonderful, huge and even beam of the M61 is just fantastic - the throw this thing has in a true, dark environment was very surprising.
> 
> As a true, all-rounder, no other drop-in comes close, IMHO. *My recently purchased NailBender Diamond Dragon P60 drop in (200 lumens) looked like a candle in comparison to the Malkoff!*
> 
> It is well worth the effort to test your lights in a non-light polluted area to realise their true potential.
> 
> James.....


Whoa whoa whoa, let's not mock Dave now. After all, the SST-90 DD module I got from him managed to make 1100 OTF lumens tested by bigchelis, if only for <15 seconds.

My current non-modified SST-90 module is run as is in direct drive and blows my M61 out of the water, and I'll be damned if it isn't immediately obvious that it's 3 times brighter.

But on the other hand, while the SST-90 is for impressing friends, it's the M61 I'm going to reach for in a power outage. The runtime is just right and the brightness will go far. The slightly greenish tint is only noticeable for wall hunters(but the beam is pretty), but that tint would be better for color rendition than the cool white tint, and the hotspot seems to be just as blinding as my SST-50 drop-in.

If I had a beef at all, it's that there's only a single level per module. I'd prefer a dual level mode, as that would fit the needs of most people. Though I'm not sure if the design of the module limits this, or if it's Gene's preference in drivers. Certainly a single mode might be a "tactical" preference, but say we had both as an "option" for the buyer to decide which one they wanted.


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## dss_777

Noctis said:


> If I had a beef at all, it's that there's only a single level per module. I'd prefer a dual level mode, as that would fit the needs of most people. Though I'm not sure if the design of the module limits this, or if it's Gene's preference in drivers. Certainly a single mode might be a "tactical" preference, but say we had both as an "option" for the buyer to decide which one they wanted.



There is the high-low switch for the MD2 and Wildcat heads... I have no way to measure the output of the M61 on low, but Gene estimates it in the 10-20lumens range.


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## notsofast

I received one of these babies today and I must say this is the nicest beam I have.... with the exception of my McGizmo HD 45.


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## Unforgiven

This thread has grown to over 1300 posts and it is time to make a new one.

Do not turn the next thread into a "Whats in stock" or "Whats the discount thread" or it will be closed. Commerce threads belong at the Market Place. Not CPF proper.


Any interested member may start the new thread This one is closed.


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