# Soon Incan lights will be GONE and everything will be LED!



## Empire (Aug 20, 2012)

Really makes me sad that all the incandescent lights like Billy Bob down at the ol auto shop had will be GONE and LED's and Photonic Tri-Quadronic-Halonic bulbs/emitters will be the new bulbs.
Anyone have a nice Incan that you wanna post a pic of?
Well, Be back in a while, I gotta go scrape styrofoam off my wall(s)


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## Marcturus (Aug 25, 2012)

ignore


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## Empire (Aug 25, 2012)

Marcturus said:


> See you post-EMP event.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nonsensical a bit?


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## Combatmp (Aug 27, 2012)

Sure seems like incans are getting phased out. I do prefer the color and "warmth?" of an incan, but LEDs sure do boast some good numbers and amazing longevity. 

EMP shouldn't affect small electronics that are off, right?


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## Empire (Aug 27, 2012)

Combatmp said:


> Sure seems like incans are getting phased out. I do prefer the color and "warmth?" of an incan, but LEDs sure do boast some good numbers and amazing longevity.
> 
> EMP shouldn't affect small electronics that are off, right?


There are such LED's with High CRI(Color rendering) "WARMTH" but I haven't seen many that exceed over 300 Lumens.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 27, 2012)

EMP mostly affects electrical grids with long, straight, un-shielded runs of wire, and the devices plugged directly into those grids. Flashlights are very unlikely to be affected. Some flashlights have even been tested by being put into microwaves, and they still work.

Anyway, incans won't completely go away for a long time. If nothing else, incans are useful in high-heat environments, such as inside ovens or above stoves. They'll probably become completely obsolete in flashlights when Hi-CRI emitters reach output levels of ~500 lumens, but hot-filament bulbs will hang around in niche applications just like everything else humans have ever invented.


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## Yoda4561 (Aug 27, 2012)

What will become of our world without Easy Bake ovens


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## Empire (Aug 27, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> What will become of our world without Easy Bake ovens


It's time for a back to the future moment


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## Nice65 (Aug 27, 2012)

Empire said:


> There are such LED's with High CRI(Color rendering) "WARMTH" but I haven't seen many that exceed over 300 Lumens.



The warm and neutral rated lights started out as yellow tints, but the technology is advancing fast. It's really a case of supply and demand, LEDs offer good runtimes and output, and the incan crew want good colour rendition. 

Zebralight SC600W is a very good example of a neutral/warm tint that's +500 lumens. Kinda knocks your socks off really


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## Empire (Aug 27, 2012)

Nice65 said:


> The warm and neutral rated lights started out as yellow tints, but the technology is advancing fast. It's really a case of supply and demand, LEDs offer good runtimes and output, and the incan crew want good colour rendition.
> 
> Zebralight SC600W is a very good example of a neutral/warm tint that's +500 lumens. Kinda knocks your socks off really


The smallest light I have seen is the HDS High CRI
Although expensive ($140) it is tough and cool


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## lightwater (Aug 27, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> What will become of our world without Easy Bake ovens



I thought the same.... Oven lights in general. Takeaway hot fast food lighting/heating. Lighting in high temperature situations.


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## Empire (Aug 27, 2012)

lightwater said:


> I thought the same.... Oven lights in general. Takeaway hot fast food lighting/heating. Lighting in high temperature situations.


Easy bake Wavesonic Oven


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## idleprocess (Aug 27, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> EMP mostly affects electrical grids with long, straight, un-shielded runs of wire, and the devices plugged directly into those grids. Flashlights are very unlikely to be affected. Some flashlights have even been tested by being put into microwaves, and they still work.



Is a microwave oven a realistic siumulation of a destructive EMP? While it generates hundreds of watts of short-wave RF, it does so in a very specific slice of the spectrum, seemingly without inducing so much current flow as the voltages seen in actual (and simulated) EMP's.


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## Empire (Aug 27, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> Is a microwave oven a realistic siumulation of a destructive EMP? While it generates hundreds of watts of short-wave RF, it does so in a very specific slice of the spectrum, seemingly without inducing so much current flow as the voltages seen in actual (and simulated) EMP's.


People don't kill people, Microwaves kill people.


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## idleprocess (Aug 27, 2012)

Empire said:


> People don't kill people, Microwaves kill people.



Indeed. I hear that there are plans on the internet for these things.


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## Empire (Aug 27, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> Indeed. I hear that there are plans on the internet for these things.


Oh no, I better melt all my Ti knives to build a shelter do I don't get eaten from the inside


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## fyrstormer (Aug 28, 2012)

Did this thread get moved to The Cafe when I wasn't looking? Because the topic seems to have gotten misplaced.


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## lightwater (Aug 28, 2012)

Empire said:


> People don't kill people, Microwaves kill people.




I haven't used a microwave for over 5 years now. There was no real reason, it's use just gradually slowed. Still got it but it sits in it's cupboard unplugged. Now I'm not even aware that I don't actually use it.


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## idleprocess (Aug 28, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> Did this thread get moved to The Cafe when I wasn't looking? Because the topic seems to have gotten misplaced.



I started with good intentions, but wandered with the crowd.


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## Empire (Aug 28, 2012)

idleprocess said:


> It started with good intentions, but wandered with the crowd.


yèp, It surè nèèds to gèt back on topic bècausè the cafè is thè wrong placè for this thrèad to bè


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## Empire (Aug 29, 2012)

What type of bulb/emitter would you like to see in the future?


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## degarb (Aug 29, 2012)

I will miss the electric bills (they were like post cards to me); I will miss the seasonal affected disorder in the winter from not enough affordable light; I will miss changing at least one burned out bulb each month (Changing even one, without incident, made me feel so smart!);.... Most of all, I will miss the blisters on my fingers.


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## Empire (Aug 29, 2012)

degarb said:


> I will miss the electric bills (they were like post cards to me); I will miss the seasonal affected disorder in the winter from not enough affordable light; I will miss changing at least one burned out bulb each month (Changing even one, without incident, made me feel so smart!  .... Most of all, I will miss the blisters on my fingers.


AutoReply:
Great post _Degarb_ 
What type of emitter/bulb etc would you like to see in the future?


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## Yoda4561 (Aug 29, 2012)

Empire said:


> What type of bulb/emitter would you like to see in the future?



A 120+ Lumen per watt edison style lamp, and an increased focus on standardized "module" led inserts for most household fixtures. Also, no detectable strobe/flicker with the bulbs. In fact after the experience with the ecosmart a19 60w bulb I'm probably going to wait until that exists before I buy any more led bulbs. 

Also, standardized modules that would allow easy changing of color temperatures for any fixture style or replacement in case of an electronics failure, but with better heatsinking than current fixtures designed around incans are capable of. (think surface mount hallway/kitchen/vanity lights.) edit: Or maybe since the LED's are almost never the actual failure point, standardized drivers that are able to be serviced and replaced instead.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 30, 2012)

Yoda4561 said:


> A 120+ Lumen per watt edison style lamp, and an increased focus on standardized "module" led inserts for most household fixtures. Also, no detectable strobe/flicker with the bulbs. In fact after the experience with the ecosmart a19 60w bulb I'm probably going to wait until that exists before I buy any more led bulbs.


The Philips AmbientLED 12W bulb has no flicker at all. My entire apartment is lit with them, and I've been happy with them since Day 1.


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## Empire (Aug 30, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> The Philips AmbientLED 12W bulb has no flicker at all. My entire apartment is lit with them, and I've been happy with them since Day 1.


Mine too, Maybe it was faulty??


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## Yoda4561 (Aug 30, 2012)

I haven't tried the philips one yet, if it doesn't have the same problem I might try to exchange this ecosmart for one.


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## fyrstormer (Aug 30, 2012)

I own 15 of them and I've never noticed any misbehavior.


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## Empire (Aug 30, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> I own 15 of them and I've never noticed any misbehavior.


Must've cost ya a fortune 500


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## fyrstormer (Aug 31, 2012)

Empire said:


> Must've cost ya a fortune 500


About $650 or so. Yes, it was expensive, but it will be years before I need to replace any of them. And it was an investment in furthering the technology.


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## Empire (Sep 5, 2012)

fyrstormer said:


> About $650 or so. Yes, it was expensive, but it will be years before I need to replace any of them. And it was an investment in furthering the technology.


WOW


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## Anders Hoveland (Sep 22, 2012)

I do not think LED's are ready to replace incandescents. I have bought several different types of LED's, and while they are better than CFL's, I still find their light a little "harsh", and it is more difficult to concentrate under. It is okay for bathroom and hall lighting, but for some reason I just feel annoyed when I try to do reading under these lights, and it does not make me feel relaxed. I am not sure exactly what it is, but should also mention I tend to be more sensitive than most about these types of things.

I think it is wrong to ban incandescents, and have stockpiled a large number of the old bulbs. Right now there simply is not any substitute for incandescent. But, somewhat ironically, I am looking forward to fluorescents being banned in schools, restaurants, and workplaces, and being replaced with LED's. LED's might not be the best, but they have better light quality than fluorescents. I just could never work under fluorescent lights. Not only is their light quality unpleasant, but I also have a slight skin sensitivity to them.


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## ElectronGuru (Sep 22, 2012)

Anders Hoveland said:


> I just feel annoyed when I try to do reading under these lights, and it does not make me feel relaxed.



I'm interested in learning more about your experience. Is it the same with a high quality flashlight LED (nichia) under the same conditions (single stationary light source)?


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## degarb (Sep 22, 2012)

Anders Hoveland said:


> I do not think LED's are ready to replace incandescents. I have bought several different types of LED's, and while they are better than CFL's, I still find their light a little "harsh", and it is more difficult to concentrate under. It is okay for bathroom and hall lighting, but for some reason I just feel annoyed when I try to do reading under these lights, and it does not make me feel relaxed. I am not sure exactly what it is, but should also mention I tend to be more sensitive than most about these types of things.I think it is wrong to ban incandescents, and have stockpiled a large number of the old bulbs. Right now there simply is not any substitute for incandescent. But, somewhat ironically, I am looking forward to fluorescents being banned in schools, restaurants, and workplaces, and being replaced with LED's. LED's might not be the best, but they have better light quality than fluorescents. I just could never work under fluorescent lights. Not only is their light quality unpleasant, but I also have a slight skin sensitivity to them.


Dont worry, leds can offer the same tiresome, sickly yellow light incans can.And there s no mystery as to why you hate white light: yellow amber allows to get sleepy and relax, while daylight and white light relleases brain endorphines and hypes one up to take on the day. Thus we can conclude that you are either a hyper person, on too much caffiene, or lazy and under ambitious indoors. Dont take this as an insult; some of the people I love most are lazy. My wife and kids, for example. This is why I am installing lep lighting house wide. But until the price comes down, i will need to be happy with the dozen or two hid fixtures we have. I am double thinking the decision to install that 1000 watt hid in the nursery.


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## degarb (Sep 22, 2012)

degarb said:


> I am double thinking the decision to install that 1000 watt hid in the nursery.


Yes, I have learned to consider lighting strategies carefully after the Fiasco of 2008, when I tried to save on electric bill by hotgluing headlamps onto the fore head of all house-hold members in their sleep. I just lacked the courage to make them pay their portion of the bill; so, I thought, hotglue would be easier.


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## degarb (Sep 22, 2012)

I do want to add that the op remark about scrapping styrofoam off wasnt non sense. It was based on a story where some regulatory agency was going to vote on banning styrofoam because it is made of dihydrolyzed monoxide. See this very toxic substance kills thousands of kids each year, and is 100 percent fatal if inhaled in the lungs. Ingesting a significant amount kills too. Infact untreated dihyrolyzed monoxide kills millions each year. What irresponsible people would use such a dangerous substance. .. styrofoam looked doomed. Yes, until the bill submitter couldnt contain their hysteria and confessed dihyrolyzed monoxide is water.... Me, this is not a joke, but reminder that there is a law of unintended consequences that applies to all regs. Regs made the mortgage mess, raise demand for health insurance a reg it, and you will get runaway prices, stop carbon and continue the 55 million year march to another earth iceball part 2 in 5 million years that started with invention of the Hymalai and other mountians which are locking up carbon faster than volcanos can pump it out. ... Ban incans and prices of the efficient bulbs go up, while the price of the energy should go down, but likely will rise as a haven for capital and rising population. Banning compact flourescents is stupid, as half my fliurescent lights have a plastic bulb surrounding curly tubing, making the mercury argument mute. Incans do release far more mercury than cfls, as making energy rereleases the heavy metal back into nature, from which it came...this thread is cafe, i think.


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## Nice65 (Sep 23, 2012)

:lol:

You need some sleep dude 

Could have been a good thread this, it's gone every which way. I'm thinking that bulb manufacturers and flashaholics are separated by a gulf. The technology to produce good, ambient and healthy light is already there, it's just not being invested into.


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## moozooh (Sep 23, 2012)

Can't wait. Let incans be the expensive enthusiast technology and LEDs the rapidly cheapening mass-produced mainstream. Unreliable century-old technologies have to go—the sooner, the better.


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## jtr1962 (Sep 23, 2012)

moozooh said:


> Can't wait. Let incans be the expensive enthusiast technology and LEDs the rapidly cheapening mass-produced mainstream. Unreliable century-old technologies have to go—the sooner, the better.


Pretty much my thoughts also, not only with regard to incans but also alkaline batteries, internal combustion engines, etc. These technologies were revolutionary in their day, and have earned their rightful place in history, but now it's time for them to get out of the mainstream to make way for newer, better technologies (which in turn will eventually need to go as well). Obsolescence is the price we pay for progress.


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## [email protected] (Sep 24, 2012)

jtr1962 said:


> Obsolescence is the price we pay for progress.




How long until the human race is obsolescent? what then? new is NOT always necessarily better...


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## degarb (Sep 24, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> How long until the human race is obsolescent? what then? new is NOT always necessarily better...


I think in this case, the efficiency is way better, the color is matched and improved on, and brighter; better...

.Daylight is 700 to 7000 lux on shadey side of house, opening windows, yes, can shine about 50k lux in direct ligh area, but only 200 lux one foot into shadow and near 45 lux six foot away, with bulbs and windows open we still barely get more than the 45 lux of three 60 watt bulbs, . A 500 halogen watt work light 6 foot away from wall pumps an average of 250 lux on a 7x7 work are-- this, without uv protective glass. My point is: we still got a long way to get the indoors of houses to a liveable lux, not reminiscent of caveman days....

As far as people that claim metal halide car lights, cfl, and led cause headaches: for their claim to hold up, they need to add that television does the same. After all, watching tv, is the exact samething as staring into a 2000 lumen led, cfl, crt with outdoor blue spectrum in every outdoor scene. (Noooo, tv is too addictive.) Then, wth, I realize: Why are they staring at a computer monitor or phone screen, reading and posting into a forum?


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## jtr1962 (Sep 24, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> How long until the human race is obsolescent? what then? new is NOT always necessarily better...


I wholeheartedly agree new is not always better. Widescreen monitors are one example as far as I'm concerned. With lighting however, LEDs do everything way better than the technologies which preceded them. The spectrum is continuous, albeit with humps and valleys in some cases, but still worlds better than spiky fluorescent spectra. Efficiency emitting white light is higher than anything else. And you have your choice of CCT. Even price, which really was the only major hurdle, has been dropping by leaps and bounds lately.

The human race as it exists now probably is heading towards being obsolete already if you look at the bigger picture. As far as the planet is concerned, we have many of the characteristics of a virus-we make the host sick, then we ultimately kill it. Unlike a virus, we have the ability to know we're doing this and to reverse course, so we're not obsolete yet. The next few decades shall be interesting, to say the least.


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## degarb (Sep 24, 2012)

jtr1962 said:


> I wholeheartedly agree new is not always better.



Are you saying, Lady Gaga isn't a better, stronger Madonna? Say it ain't so!


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## SemiMan (Sep 25, 2012)

Anders Hoveland said:


> I do not think LED's are ready to replace incandescents. I have bought several different types of LED's, and while they are better than CFL's, I still find their light a little "harsh", and it is more difficult to concentrate under. It is okay for bathroom and hall lighting, but for some reason I just feel annoyed when I try to do reading under these lights, and it does not make me feel relaxed. I am not sure exactly what it is, but should also mention I tend to be more sensitive than most about these types of things.
> 
> I think it is wrong to ban incandescents, and have stockpiled a large number of the old bulbs. Right now there simply is not any substitute for incandescent. But, somewhat ironically, I am looking forward to fluorescents being banned in schools, restaurants, and workplaces, and being replaced with LED's. LED's might not be the best, but they have better light quality than fluorescents. I just could never work under fluorescent lights. Not only is their light quality unpleasant, but I also have a slight skin sensitivity to them.




Anders I am confused. How come you did not have this mysterious sensitivity when you were commenting on this topic on other forums on other web-sites? It was only after you joined CPF that you mysteriously developed this sensitivity? I am curious, did you just make it up when you came to CPF or are you a hypochondriac?

Semiman


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## Anders Hoveland (Feb 22, 2013)

jtr1962 said:


> The human race as it exists now probably is heading towards being obsolete already if you look at the bigger picture. As far as the planet is concerned, we have many of the characteristics of a virus-we make the host sick, then we ultimately kill it. Unlike a virus, we have the ability to know we're doing this and to reverse course, so we're not obsolete yet. The next few decades shall be interesting, to say the least.


Well then shouldn't you be advocating for some form of cumpulsory sterilization program and planned eugenics?!
Incandescent light bulbs are a very very small part of the overall picture, and their impact has been drastically over emphasized, probably just because everyone sees these conspicuous users of energy in their own homes. I think some of these ignorant environmental planners need to be taken on a tour of a Chinese aluminum smelting plant, or go to an industrial warehouse or business parking lot at night.

I wish they would have started to replace fluorescent with LED *first*, before going after incandescents. We all know far more energy is being wasted by fluorescent lighting than incandescent lighting. It's just not in our own homes.


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## Anders Hoveland (Feb 24, 2013)

Empire said:


> There are such LED's with High CRI(Color rendering) "WARMTH" but I haven't seen many that exceed over 300 Lumens.


They are also very pinkish. The addition of extra red frequencies might help the CRI, but it throws off the overall color of the light.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Feb 24, 2013)

That is why I no longer own any high CRI lights. I couldn't take the red/pink.


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## degarb (Feb 24, 2013)

Anders Hoveland said:


> Well then shouldn't you be advocating for some form of cumpulsory sterilization program and planned eugenics?!
> Incandescent light bulbs are a very very small part of the overall picture, and their impact has been drastically over emphasized, probably just because everyone sees these conspicuous users of energy in their own homes. I think some of these ignorant environmental planners need to be taken on a tour of a Chinese aluminum smelting plant, or go to an industrial warehouse or business parking lot at night.
> 
> I wish they would have started to replace fluorescent with LED *first*, before going after incandescents. We all know far more energy is being wasted by fluorescent lighting than incandescent lighting. It's just not in our own homes.



Interesting point.


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## Anders Hoveland (Mar 5, 2013)

Empire said:


> Soon Incan lights will be GONE and everything will be LED!


I am not believing all the hype. I suspect most people will just buy the cheaper CFLs. Except the people that dislike/hate CFLs. I am not sure exactly how many of these people there are.

Just remember that Candle Power Forums is probably not an accurate representation of average consumer preferences. :tinfoil:


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## degarb (Mar 5, 2013)

> I am not believing all the hype. I suspect most people will just buy the cheaper CFLs. Except the people that dislike/hate CFLs. I am not sure exactly how many of these people there are.



You don't believe hype about LED taking over CFL? Why not? I am sure you have read up, it is just a matter of time before efficiency stomps CFL and cost drop. Who wouldn't pay $3 to buy a 50,000 hour 2 watt led that would replace a 40 watt 1100 hour incan, or a 10,000 hour, 13 watt, $4 cfl?

Most people don't know, or care, about the knowledge of color temperture, lumens, hours of operation, or even wattage cost. 

What they do know is that they are being forced to pay upfront 3 to 5 times the $.50 to $1 for the incan. So, many gripe with mastered expertise. They know flourescent lighting of 30 years ago was green. They associate LED technology with bluish 40 lpw, nichia 20 milliamp output. So, if that is their bias and knowledge base, a survey of how they like the new technology, is hardly meaningful. *

People here, in this forum, are regular people that do care about the specs, and so, have some opinion--enough to contribute. Leave the double blind tests for the masses.

I bet the $10 and 100 lumen per watt mark is led threshold where most cpf members here will start replacing all their cfl's. The average joe, is will buy their first at the $2 mark, and continue buying if the color and brightness meet their needs.

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* [What the customer wants (what is really good for them) and think they want are hardly the same. Marketing, and planted ideas have more weight than reality. This is the reason car commercials are little more than a car driving down the road with cool music playing.]


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## Freax (Apr 25, 2013)

fyrstormer said:


> EMP mostly affects electrical grids with long, straight, un-shielded runs of wire, and the devices plugged directly into those grids. Flashlights are very unlikely to be affected. Some flashlights have even been tested by being put into microwaves, and they still work.



Don't be so sure of that, an EMP is a pulse of a minimum of 50,000 amps within a few milliseconds, it is also electromagnetic RF energy, not DC, not AC, so it couples to everything in sight, it is also an extremely long wavelength, which may save your LED torches bacon, but everything that is connected to the grid will be experiencing melting lines at the very least, YES MELTING LINES, it MELTS the high current WIRES.

A microwave oven IS a good test to weed out the weak ones but last time I checked a microwave oven wasn't generating 50,000 amps.

If nukes do fall I for one will not be relying upon a majority of LED torches, I instead will be relying upon a large stockpile of long life incandescent globes of assorted sizes.

The bigger problem is finding a large enough source of energy, with every single Solar panel out of comission within a few hundred miles the ONLY thing that I think will be running is farms with their own Hydroelectric power generation from a nearby river, or hand crank generators and Bicycle power generation of DIY designs.

There won't be any petrol purely because of there being an inability to ship it to your area, so no cars, and no motorcycles, just bicycles and whatever gadgets you can fit onto one.

Feel free to shield old LED torches that you don't use anymore inside of a steel ammo can box tho, but insulate it electrically from the box's metal.


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## Freax (Apr 25, 2013)

jtr1962 said:


> I wholeheartedly agree new is not always better. Widescreen monitors are one example as far as I'm concerned.



Agreed wholeheartedly, 4:3 should've never been discarded so recklessly, but I see people these days are acting reckless so it is a sign of the times.

I'm Athiest and even I'm kissing my *** goodbye!



> With lighting however, LEDs do everything way better than the technologies which preceded them.



I would take a carbon arc lamp anyday over any LED light, LED for me due to a degenerative eye disorder is actually painful to look at, it gives me a headache and it feels like its cutting a hole through my eye, ontop of that objects are difficult enough to find but LED makes it a ton harder.

This is just another sign of the times, the earth has far too many people on it and we are scavenging for every last gigawatt that we can get from an overstrained electrical system, we know that we have far too many people on the planet but we aren't doing anything about it so therefore the solution is to reduce our energy consumption.

I think our society is doomed, we've overshot and we're burning up all of our natural resources for NOTHING but CONSUMPTION, the consumption of worthless products to make our lives feel even emptyer, the axing of our space program is just another example of all of this.

But at least we will still have the private entities, for as long as private companies are abound.

If we had 2-4 billion people on the planet we certianly wouldn't have this problem and our society will last a considerably longer period of time than I think it will last.

When it became cheaper to order a Pizza from some outlet chain and have it delivered to your door than it did to make it yourself at home, When Pepsi and Coke started adding Artificial sweeteners and went away from Corn Sugar, thats when the world turned to poop, thats when we all should've woken up and said, "hey, my paycheque just got a whole lot smaller, the coke tastes like poop, the light above me is giving me a headache and there is nothing on tv anymore, what the hell is going on?" But we didn't.



> The human race as it exists now probably is heading towards being obsolete already if you look at the bigger picture. As far as the planet is concerned, we have many of the characteristics of a virus-we make the host sick, then we ultimately kill it. Unlike a virus, we have the ability to know we're doing this and to reverse course, so we're not obsolete yet. The next few decades shall be interesting, to say the least.



Yes, but no, Greed is the virus we are afflcted with. Ironically didn't the bible tell us not to give into greed? That is what is making us doomed.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 25, 2013)

Closing this thread as it has gone way beyond the topic as stated by the thread title and first post, and has become OT.

Bill


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