# CFL Electrodeless lamps are here!



## JohnR66 (Aug 5, 2007)

Osram Sylvania "Dura-One" lamps are out, but at high cost. They use RF energy to ionize the gas. The RF coil is inside the lamp and the gas acts as a lossy secondary, so little RF escapes. The FCC (US) has set aside a band of frequencies for these lamps to operate at (2.51-3MHz).

With no electrode loss, the lamps should be more efficent, but are actually about the same as current CFLs due to other losses. The benefits of the electrodeless lamp include:

Much longer lamp life
True instant on
Looks more like a standard incan. (no spirals)
Can be cycled on an off without worry of electrode degradation

Hope the price comes down so they can appear at the local brick and morter.
John


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## brickbat (Aug 5, 2007)

JohnR66 said:


> ...The FCC (US) has set aside a band of frequencies for these lamps to operate at (2.51-3MHz)...



I've been wondering about that, but can't find any reference to it in the FCC part 15 or 18 rules. Any idea where I cound find more details on this frequency band?


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## brickbat (Aug 5, 2007)

OK, found it, sort of. In part 18.307, the FCC now allows a much higher level of conducted emissions - 3 mV (a.k.a. undesirable noise) in the 2.51 - 3 MHz band.


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## James S (Aug 5, 2007)

hmm. at this point it doesn't look like there is much choice in what you get, and only 2700k is listed which is a shame. I hope they can do some more choices in form and color temp! But I'm sure if they can become popular that more offerings will follow.


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## dirckj (Aug 10, 2007)

Is it possible that the 2700k is easier to stimulate with this technology?


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## James S (Aug 10, 2007)

it's possible, I am not an authority  But I've never heard of such a thing before. More likely they are hitting what they think is the biggest market "warm white" and will expand from there if they succeed. Unfortunately, the biggest part of the perceived market isn't really I dont think. I think it still stems from fear that people would want the same light as bulbs with wires in them so that was all that was offered.

Even Home Depot now has almost every bulb in their catalog available in 3 color temperatures.


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## eebowler (Aug 11, 2007)

http://dafnwebpd.sylvania.com/idmweb/doccontent.dll?LibraryName=ecomcspd^dafnctpd&SystemType=2&LogonId=54f0fc774d47e3ef8a24e37ae8f6412a&DocId=003683538&Page=1


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## jtr1962 (Aug 11, 2007)

James S said:


> Unfortunately, the biggest part of the perceived market isn't really I dont think. I think it still stems from fear that people would want the same light as bulbs with wires in them so that was all that was offered.


I feel the same way. I think if some market research was done the CFL makers would find that 3500K to be most preferred, but 4100K to 6500K also popular enough to warrant mass production. I think few if any would actually prefer 2700K over anything else. I've long felt that in their quest to overcome the CRI deficiencies of earlier lamps, CFL manufacturers shot themselves in the foot by sticking to mostly 2700K or 3000K. While some will undoubtedly buy CFLs just to save energy, I think there is a much bigger market who would buy them simply because they don't like the look of regular incandescent light (that's actually one of the reasons I went to linear fluorescent in most rooms years ago). It seems with the new n:vision series sold by Home Depot they're finally starting to catch on, but the vast majority of widely available CFLs unfortunately remain warm white. I hope the same mistake isn't made with LEDs.


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## James S (Aug 12, 2007)

If anything, the early adopters that would spend extra money to get access to the newest type of bulb (ie, ME) is shifting away from 2700k bulbs. I have several still around here that I plan to keep in individual 60 watt equivalent or smaller lamps. I dont like a dim, cool light. But in anyplace where I want bright light I have shifted to 3100 to 3500k bulbs.


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## 2xTrinity (Aug 12, 2007)

James S said:


> If anything, the early adopters that would spend extra money to get access to the newest type of bulb (ie, ME) is shifting away from 2700k bulbs. I have several still around here that I plan to keep in individual 60 watt equivalent or smaller lamps. I dont like a dim, cool light. But in anyplace where I want bright light I have shifted to 3100 to 3500k bulbs.


In general warmer colors are more pleasant at extremely low levels -- so I prefer warm-white for things like outdoor patio lights, or low-level ambient lighting. For general household lighting I run 3500K -- which seems to be perfect for typical household levels of illumination. Where I need lots of light to do intensive work, I prefer 5000K linear tubes -- both due to the color temp, and the fact that the light is more effectively diffused from a linear fixture than from a CFL.


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## PhotonWrangler (Aug 12, 2007)

This is very reminiscent of G-E's failed attempt to launch a similar lamp back in the mid 90s. They called it the Genura lamp. I never saw one in person, and when I inquired about the cost of it once,m I think the lamp was between $100-$200. I wonder is Sylvania will have better luck with this than G-E did.


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## yuandrew (Aug 14, 2007)

The Ge Genura has been around for a while. Several Carl's Jr restaurants in my area have used this bulb for track lighting and in pendants over tables. If you're eating and look up at it, it doesn't look too much different than a normal compact fluorescent bulb in terms of color temperature but it does have a very compact size.

I think they are still being made. They are expensive though; you can order them from this catalog for $31.25 each. 

http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/2050_25_44_171_216

Osram/Sylvania has been making electrodeless fluorescent lamps for commercial applications for a while but these have very high power levels (150 watts and above). Check out their "Icetron" series of lamps and driver electronics.

http://www.sylvania.com/BusinessProducts/LightingForBusiness/Products/Lamps/Fluorescent/Icetron/


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## yuandrew (Aug 15, 2007)

Well, it appears the Sylvania Dura-One has already been out for a little while. 

The R-30 version is easy to find but I'm looking for the A-19 version

http://www.lightbulbhawaii.com/R30_BR30-CF23RC_BR30_27_DURA_ONE_1-.html


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## James S (Aug 16, 2007)

and topbulb has the genuria version of the same thing, but they want $45 for it! Gulp...

http://www.topbulb.com/find/Product_Description.asp_Q_intProductID_E_43902


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## PhotonWrangler (Aug 16, 2007)

James S said:


> and topbulb has the genuria version of the same thing, but they want $45 for it! Gulp...
> 
> http://www.topbulb.com/find/Product_Description.asp_Q_intProductID_E_43902




I'm guessing that the ballast is a little on the pricey side also...


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## brickbat (Aug 16, 2007)

Genura has an internal ballast. I think Philips had an electrodeless CFL with external ballast...


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## yuandrew (Aug 17, 2007)

http://www.goodmart.com/products/835231.htm

Found the A-19 version for 16.43 each but you have to buy them as a case of 6


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