# building my Mag85. lith or nimh???



## jayhackett03 (Nov 18, 2006)

i'm about to start ordering stuff for my Mag85. its gonna be a Mag 3d, silver, if you care. i'll be going with a fivemega battery holder but i need to know which batteries to go with beforehand. 

should i go with Lithium batteries or NiMH batteries?

the lithium batteries for the battery holder are like $9 a piece!!! NiMH is cheaper, i think, but are they just as good? help me out. teach me what you know please.


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## lexina (Nov 18, 2006)

The interesting thing about the Mag 3D is that it happens to fit 3X18650 just fine if you remove the stock spring and deanodize the inside of the tail-cap and use a smaller spring. Hence you can run the 1185 (or other 9.6V bulbs like the 1331 or 1306) on either LiIons or NiMhs in the same host. This is an advantage over the similar ROP-LiIon vs ROP-NiMh choice where you would have to decide between the 2C for the LiIon version and the 2D for the NiMh version.

There are some pros and cons:-

1. LiIons will retain their charge better hence if it is only for intermitten use and you don't plan on recharging regularly, they are more likely to work when you need them. 

2. LiIons are more dangerous, especially the unprotected types and you have to know how to treat/use them! Read through the various threads here before you decide. Also, if kids will have access to your light, that could be deciding factor. Bear in mind that some protected 18650s may not be able to power the 1185 without multiple clicks.

3. Although NiMhs are cheaper, you have to factor in the cost of the adaptor. For LiIons, you just need the right-sized tube and perhaps, lye, for deanodizing the tail-cap. 

4. You will need to charge 9-10 cells (see side note below) vs 3 for LiIons. On the other hand, you may already have a NiMh charger but not a LiIon charger.

5. As for brightness and run-time, I think they close enough (if you compare 3X 2200mAh 18650s with 10X2500mAh AAs) not to be the deciding factor between the 2 options.

Just a side note - unless you are using high-current cells like the CBP 1600s, you may find that 9 normal NiMhs may not drive the 1185 sufficiently. Currently, I am using 10 Sanyo NiMh 2500s on a modamag 12AA-3D adaptor and it works much better than on 9 cells.


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## AndrewL (Nov 18, 2006)

would the weight be significantly different to be worth considering?


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## missionaryman (Nov 18, 2006)

AndrewL said:


> would the weight be significantly different to be worth considering?


 I don't think weight would be a significant difference because a fully loaded FM carrier is not that heavy.

The 3 x 18650 inside a tube is the way I'd go, with NIMH the light constantly discharges itself and I found it terribly annoying. I built my ROP on a LiIon solution and it's never flat - always ready.

I have seen (in the ROP) 2 x 18650 VS 6 x CBP1650 side by side and the Lithium light was noticably brighter. I think LiIons hold a higher voltage from start to end.
You can get LG 2600mah 18650 cells now so run time would be up there with the best NIMH and you can get a nylon tube made fairly cheaply for a nice clean look and precise fit if you did want to go lithium.

Drawback is safety and I think it's the only drawback but none the less a valid one.

Fivemega had a GB for double bored 3D [email protected] to take 6 x 18650 in 3s2p for 4400mah using AW's protected cells, this would be the best solution if still available


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## cd-card-biz (Nov 18, 2006)

Pardon if this is a bit OT for this thread.

The 3 x 18650 setup using AW's new protected cells to power an 1185 in a 3D host sounds like a winner.

In charging such a setup, would it be safe to place the _protected_ cells end-to-end and use a Li-Ion smart charger with magnetic charging leads? Would I set the charger for 10.8V?

I don't want to be too creative at the cost of safety. Plus, I honestly don't know if you set the charger to the individual cell voltage or combined cell voltage when charging cells in series?

Hopefully that will be my last dumb question for the day - but I doubt it.

Thanks for any information,
Bill


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## jayhackett03 (Nov 18, 2006)

while you guys gave me good answers, i really didn't get an answer that related to fivemega's 9xAA adapter i was going with. well, i think i've decided to go with lithium batteries, where is a good place to get them?


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## EvilLithiumMan (Nov 18, 2006)

You've received good information on the pros and cons of NiMh and Li-Ion, so I won't repeat it. I will add some observations though:

1 - I have both types for my Mag85. The 3x18650 Li-Ion pack (with state-of-the-art bubble pack spacer) weighs 5.0 oz. and the NiMh weighs 12.5 oz. Whenever I pick up my Mag85, there's not a seconds doubt about which is installed. It's a noticeable difference to me. Because I use the 18650 cell in numerous lights, I stuck with them. As you noted, the 14500 approach reqiures nine cells. Add the wonderful FM holder and you're looking at about $140 for the battery pack.

Good sources for Li-Ion cells are http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=490 and
http://www.lighthound.com/sales/protected_lithium_batteries.htm

2 - I am also using AWR's HotDriver. Prolongs bulb life and I need the low battery shutdown for my unprotected Li-Ion cells.

3 - Silver? No doubt it's the perfect color!


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## jayhackett03 (Nov 18, 2006)

ok, lets talk performance, whats better the 3x18650 or the 9x14500 with FM battery holder?


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## molite (Nov 22, 2006)

jayhackett03 said:


> ok, lets talk performance, whats better the 3x18650 or the 9x14500 with FM battery holder?


 
You don't need an FM battery holder for the 3x18650 set up, you only need a pvc tube.

I too am for the lithium set up.

You will need to get FM's metal reflector and might as well get the borro lens from him.

Once you decide to go Li if you havn't bought the host you can use mag C host.
you may want to consider the mag2C with 2x18650 and the rop bulb


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## paulr (Nov 23, 2006)

For 3x18650 I think I'd rather start with a 4C mag, which should be just about the right length. Has anyone done that?


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## lexina (Nov 23, 2006)

paulr said:


> For 3x18650 I think I'd rather start with a 4C mag, which should be just about the right length. Has anyone done that?



If you use a 4C, you won't need to deanodize the tail-cap and you can prob use the stock spring although it may be about 5mm short. If you have already decided on LiIons, the 4C would make for a slimmer (although just a little longer) light. If you haven't, the advantage of the 3D is that you will be able to swap between LiIons or NiMh.


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## Alin10123 (Dec 1, 2006)

I have a 12AA FM pack that fits into a bored out 3D maglite. It doesn't feel heavy at all. NiMh cells are actually very light weight. IF safety is a factor for you, i'd go with NiMh. I just didn't want to mess with the Lithium route. Especially since you have to just about go unprotected. Otherwise it's not guaranteed to work because the protection will kick in and wont let you work the light because of the sudden current draw.


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## cmaylodm (Jan 18, 2007)

Wouldn't 3x18650 overdrive the bulb a bit much? I see the bulb is rated for 9.6v, and 3 freshly charged LiIons would be putting out about 12.6v.


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## nightstalker101 (Jan 18, 2007)

I never thougt of using 3X18650s. This should make the Mag85, much more afordable.


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## MSaxatilus (Jan 18, 2007)

> Wouldn't 3x18650 overdrive the bulb a bit much? I see the bulb is rated for 9.6v, and 3 freshly charged LiIons would be putting out about 12.6v.


 
Good question, and on top of that, are you guys using protected cells or unprotected. I start to get a bit nervous about using unprotected cells in arrangments of more than 2 batteries.

Am I just being a weenie or is it safe to use three LGs in one of the Mag85 arrangements, utilizing the proper safety procautions of course?

MSax


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## DonShock (Jan 18, 2007)

paulr said:


> For 3x18650 I think I'd rather start with a 4C mag, which should be just about the right length. Has anyone done that?


I have a Mag4C based Mag85 running off 3 of AWs new protected 18650 cells. All it really needed was a spacer due to the difference in diameter. I used some 3/4" grey plastic electrical conduit. It's a hair too big too, but by cutting a slot down the length with a dremel tool, you can remove the little bit of material needed to make it fit. The existing tail spring will work, but I was a little worried about the long term effects of such a stiff spring so I replaced it with a softer one. Performance seems identical to the Mag3D/9AA NiMH version. The lengths of the lights are almost the same, but the 4C version is about 11 ounces lighter than the 3D vesion. The 4C/Li-Ion also has less standby losses on the batteries. But the FM pack is a little more convenient to recharge than the individual Li-Ion cells.


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## bfg9000 (Jan 18, 2007)

Since I'd probably want to have NiMH available as a backup power source anyway I'd just order the AA battery carrier now. And then order the (protected?) lithium D cells when they finally arrive because they'll have more capacity than 18650s and fit perfectly with no spacer.


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## farscape105 (Jan 18, 2007)

Just FYI, in regards to nimh discharge, I have Mag74 and found it very annoying too. In fact almost sold my light because it sits between uses, but about month ago got the Sanyo Eneloops ($10 per 4 pack, 2000 mah) and I am impressed. They are low discharge, they advertise after 1 year still have 85% charge left. I let Mag sit for about 3 weeks and still got a 36 minute runtime before it just started to dim. Before with freshly charged nimh GP 1800's I only got 25 minutes.


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## tazambo (Jan 21, 2007)

AW is about to release C sized Li-ions.
They will be about 3300mAH each @ 3.7v.

3 of them in a [email protected] 3C should give 60min runtime for a [email protected] (this is what I've read).

Also, literally no discharge over time with Li-ions, so the flashlight will be ready to go at all times.

I've built mine (had a 3C already) and am just waiting on the cells to be released (expected early Feb 07).

Regards
Dave


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## jayhackett03 (Jan 21, 2007)

farscape105 said:


> Just FYI, in regards to nimh discharge, I have Mag74 and found it very annoying too. In fact almost sold my light because it sits between uses, but about month ago got the Sanyo Eneloops ($10 per 4 pack, 2000 mah) and I am impressed. They are low discharge, they advertise after 1 year still have 85% charge left. I let Mag sit for about 3 weeks and still got a 36 minute runtime before it just started to dim. Before with freshly charged nimh GP 1800's I only got 25 minutes.


 
where'd you find eneloops that cheap?


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## farscape105 (Jan 21, 2007)

I got them from hhgregg.com, but looks like they only sell them in store now. Cheapest I have found is Ritzcamera for $11.99 for 4 aa's, they charge 6.99 for shipping, http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/142140193.htm?bct=;pi142140185 

I have been using a standard nimh charger with no problems.


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## nightstalker101 (Jan 21, 2007)

Is it safe to use 3 unprotected 18650's?


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## farscape105 (Jan 22, 2007)

I am sorry for ignorance but where do you find AW batteries? Is it a site or member? I have rechargeables from couple different places and see AW batteries referenced a lot.


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## lexina (Jan 22, 2007)

farscape105 said:


> I am sorry for ignorance but where do you find AW batteries? Is it a site or member? I have rechargeables from couple different places and see AW batteries referenced a lot.


 
Here you go:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/140362


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## lexina (Jan 22, 2007)

tazambo said:


> AW is about to release C sized Li-ions.
> They will be about 3300mAH each @ 3.7v.
> 
> 3 of them in a [email protected] 3C should give 60min runtime for a [email protected] (this is what I've read).
> ...


 
The other exciting thing to look out for in the horizon that will give us much more choice in our hotwire builds will be the 18650 tubes/extenders for the MagC by waion:-

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/149688

With these tubes/extenders, you could easily build a ROP with 2X18650 or a Mag85/Mag1331 with 3X18650. Without the bulky Mag switch it will be slimmer and shorter than the usual Mag hotwires. Life just became a lot more interesting!


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