# The World's Most Powerful Pocket Thrower [DBS w/ SST-50 Review]



## joshconsulting (Jan 22, 2010)

Click on any image in this review to see the full size version








 
Note to posters: Before flaming me about the title, read the post. I realize this light isn't the farthest throwing or brightest LED, but I think as a combo of the two it certainly wins. I'm sure it's possible to build a hotwire with an IMR cell with considerably greater output and <8 minute runtime, but that hardly counts. And yes, those with smaller pockets might have problems EDCing the DBS 

This light is a combination of the DBS body\head, a DBS MC-E lightly textured reflector, and a Nailbender SST-50 2.8A single mode WJ bin C3 color P60 dropin (yeah, that's a mouthful :duh2.

First, the raw numbers. I don't own a high end light meter or integrated sphere, and this light has never been directly tested, but very similar setups have been tested by both Big C and mrgman, so I would give these numbers a +-10%: 23-25k lux w/ 460 OTF lumens. An XPG DBS is around 18 lux, 300 OTF lumens. A R2 DBS is ~21k lux, 220 OTF lumens. A R2 aspheric DBS is ~65k lux, 140 OTF lumens. The thrunite catapult, a 2x 18650 light, is around 30k lux, 540 OTF lumens - but with a head and body far larger then the DBS, close to a maglight size and certainly not pocketable.

When I got the DBS, I stripped it down and meticulously cleaned and re-greased every part of it. I applied thermal paste in 2 areas - between the P60 pill and the reflector, and between the reflector and the body. The P60 pill to reflector is the main area of heat transfer, as the P60 pill does not touch the sides of the light. Applying AS5 in the threads really helped heat transfer - before, the pill would heat to 'too hot to touch' in 20-30 seconds, but I could comfortably unscrew it at over a minute with the AS5 on.

Beamshots:

First, the SST-50 in P60 dropin format:





Next, the SST-50 in the DBS, with the AKOray K-106 on the right side. This picture was taken at an equal distance and cropped equally so size of the hotspot can be directly compared to the SST-50 above, but I had to step down exposure to make the hotspot visible, so brightness cannot be directly compared. The AKOray is for reference; its hotspot is roughly equal to the SST-50 P60s in brightness, although it is much smaller:




 
According to my rough measurements, the hotspot on the DBS is around 1/7th the area, with a much brighter sidespill.

Here's some outdoor pics. The camera was on auto, so it's hard to compare brightness, but I never got a chance to capture P60 shots in manual.

Reference (daylight, approximate target areas circled in red):













SST-50 P60 (Note that it was foggy that night, the beam was 'fuzzier' then normal):












And finally, DBS + SST-50:

The 120' beamshot doesn't really do the DBS justice. Like I figured, the camera underexposed the image to the point where it looked like the P60, but with a smaller hotspot. Tonight is slightly foggy, though not nearly as foggy as when I used the P60. You can actually see the beam in real life, though (but not nearly as bright as it appears in this image).





This image is a much better representation. Thanks to the lights from the house, the camera exposed it much more closely to what it actually looks like.





If you don't like the single mode, you can get a triple or five mode driver from Nailbender; they only deliver 2.5A, but the difference is small so go for it if you want modes 

It was a close choice between the smooth and the lightly dimpled reflector, but with a lux loss of 2-3k the lightly dimpled reflector eliminated some fairly serious rings around the hotspot.

Here are the links\prices for the various parts:

*Flashlight body ($49): *http://flashlightconnection.com/Der...V3/DBS-V3-Host-No-Reflector-or-Pill-p183.html

*MC-E Light OP reflector ($20):* http://flashlightconnection.com/Orange-Peel-OP-Reflector-DBS-p48.html

*UCL lens 43.41mm x 2.89mm ($6.25):* http://www.flashlightlens.com/str/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=prodshow&ref=ucl_lens

*SST-50 WJ bin P60 dropin ($65-75):* https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/248771
*
Total: $140-150 shipped w\ CPF discounts*

Sorry for the somewhat scattered review, I had to write it in a short timeframe and I had to put a lot of information out there. If anything is unclear or you have questions, post away and I'll respond as soon as I can.

A big thumbs up for the many people who steered me in the right direction on this project :thumbsup:

EDIT: More pictures!
It's been really foggy the last few nights, a big contrast to the cold, crisp nights we're used to. Guess it's the warm weather, slight rain, melting snow, and 93% humidity 
Distance in all 3 shots is around 90'.













The light looked really cool. The beam was a even line, and the sidespill made a really cool-looking 3d cone, especially when pointed upwards. I stepped up the exposure to show the sidespill in this shot.





The camera had a hard time focusing on the reflector close up, I did my best to show just how light the OP pattern was.


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## SCEMan (Jan 22, 2010)

Looking forward to your beamshots (looks pretty cold out there!). I've never considered using the OP reflector in my DBS/SST-50 as the SMO produces a wonderful ring-free beam.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 22, 2010)

SCEMan said:


> Looking forward to your beamshots (looks pretty cold out there!). I've never considered using the OP reflector in my DBS/SST-50 as the SMO produces a wonderful ring-free beam.



It's not ringy, more of shades of darker\lighter near the hotspot that the light OP smooths out. At the moment, I have a large bonfire going just behind the garden that's ruining any chances of a beamshot. Once it dies down in an hour or two I should be able to get some. From what I saw earlier, though, the cameras autoexposure just throttles down so the hotspot looks a little brighter and quite a bit smaller. Too bad I didn't take the P60 shots in manual 

EDIT: Also, a question: Do you have the 2.8A single mode, or the 2.5A?


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## Noobiwan (Jan 22, 2010)

Thanks for your efforts Josh, I may have to give this setup a shot. All I really need would be the drop in from nailbender.:twothumbs


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## joshconsulting (Jan 22, 2010)

Updated with outdoor beamshots :twothumbs


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## FlashCrazy (Jan 23, 2010)

Nice work! For those who'd like to order the light OP reflector for the DBS, you need to order the MC-E OP reflector, then put a note in the "Shipping Instructions" box during checkout stating that you'd like the light OP version. We only have one or two left, but should have more within 10 days. Looks like a really powerful beam! :twothumbs


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## bigchelis (Jan 23, 2010)

Good review. The Lego format is a great plus for me.

Now I know what I want.....I wonder how ringy the smooth reflector is? 


Good throw considering the foggy conditions.


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## orbspeed1 (Jan 23, 2010)

Nice photo's I think I need to get a light that takes drop ins.

Ps do you mow your snow ????


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## turboBB (Jan 23, 2010)

FlashCrazy said:


> Nice work! For those who'd like to order the light OP reflector for the DBS, you need to order the MC-E OP reflector, then put a note in the "Shipping Instructions" box during checkout stating that you'd like the light OP version. We only have one or two left, but should have more within 10 days. Looks like a really powerful beam! :twothumbs


 
 You can thank JC for this order, I've been in contact with him over PM and was persuaded this is the upgrade I needed for my collection. 


JC,
Thanks once again for all your assistance. Looking forward to receiving my DBS, just gotta contact Dave for the pill now.

Cheers,
Tim


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> Good review. The Lego format is a great plus for me.
> 
> Now I know what I want.....I wonder how ringy the smooth reflector is?
> 
> ...



I'd take beamshots of it, but I didn't have much luck showing the rings the first time, and now that the pill is thermal pasted into place I'd rather not remove it. There were 3 fairly bright rings just out from the hotspot that were kind of distracting. The light OP is just barely textured, but it smoothed them out to a nice even sidespill. Never thought I'd say that I preferred an OP to a SMO, but it really helps with light around the hotspot. As you can see in the shed pic, the hotspot is only lighting up the center half of the shed, but the bright spill lights up the area around it even at 60'.



> Ps do you mow your snow ????


Nahh, the kids just left the door open. That's the reason for all the tracks around the snow


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## rickypanecatyl (Jan 23, 2010)

Excellent looking light Josh! So would this be a fair comparison of 4 Dereelights?

The DBS V3 R2, XPG & your SST-50 all have roughly the same throw, but the XPG has +/- 50% more spill than the R2 and yours has 50% more spill than the XPG.
And then the DBS MC-E would have roughly the same lumens as yours, but only 1/2 the throw distance?

If that were true I guess that would make the R2 look really tight compared to the MC-E, and for my tastes, your set up would be the perfect combo of flood and throw!


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

There is a slight variation in throw between the three, it goes XPG -> R2 -> SST-50, with around 2.5k lux difference between the XPG\R2 and 3.5k between the R2\SST-50. Since I don't have a light meter, these are semi-accurate guesstimates pulled from various other members who do while attempting to adjust for variations between meters. Not exactly scientific, but it's safe to say the SST-50 throws slightly better then the R2 which throws a tiny bit better then the XP-G.

The MC-E is driven at 2.1A; the SST-50 is 15-20% more efficient and driven at 2.8A [25% more] with a lighter-textured reflector. So as a rough guess, the SST-50 is putting out at least 30-40% more lumens then the MC-E with a throw well over twice as far. The MC-E is fairly floody, though; but with a $9 diffusion lens from flashlightlens.com, you could turn the DBS into a flooder as well with only a small (5-10%) drop in lumens.


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## SCEMan (Jan 23, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> There were 3 fairly bright rings just out from the hotspot that were kind of distracting.



Guess I got lucky with my SST-50/DBS SMO - no rings at all in white wall or real-world use. Perfect combination: MC-E-type spill & lots of throw.

You might try adjusting the screw-in pill depth in the reflector to eliminate rings. I've used an o-ring to do this with X-REs successfully.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

SCEMan said:


> Guess I got lucky with my SST-50/DBS SMO - no rings at all in white wall or real-world use. Perfect combination: MC-E-type spill & lots of throw.
> 
> You might try adjusting the screw-in pill depth in the reflector to eliminate rings. I've used an o-ring to do this with X-REs successfully.



As it is, the pill only gets about 2 full turns in before it stops. Since it's the only thermal contact point, I'd rather not unscrew it any. There were very definite rings, though; you might have gotten lucky. Alan at Dereelight recommended a light OP, though he didn't say why. He might have gotten the same beam flaws.

Light OP also has the advantage of removing the cloverleaf pattern in the center of the beam, but it's such a small thing it doesn't really matter. Could you take a picture of your sidespill around the hotspot? I'm curious to see what it looks like in a SMO without rings. I have what looks like four slightly elliptical circle patterns on each corner that are almost invisible, but can be seen pretty plainly in a SMO.

Oh, and is yours the single mode 2.8A or 2.5A?


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## SCEMan (Jan 23, 2010)

It's daytime here, but I'll try to get a whitewall beamshot when I have a chance. my SST-50 is a 2.8A DD 3-level.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

SCEMan said:


> It's daytime here, but I'll try to get a whitewall beamshot when I have a chance. my SST-50 is a 2.8A DD 3-level.



2.8A DD? Wouldn't a DD pull considerably more from an AW 18650? Big C measured his as 5.7A at the tailcap. Or do you have a special 3 mode 2.8A driver?

Also, you could try taking it in a darkish room with the shades down, I just tried it in a fairly dark room and as soon as I turned on the light the camera throttled down exposure to the point where I never could have guessed it was daylight


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## divine (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm running my DBS with the XP-G pill and OP reflector now. The smooth reflector for the XP-G is pretty ringy. By ringy I mean there aren't dark spots, but it goes from bright to not as bright at a few points.


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## SCEMan (Jan 23, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> 2.8A DD? Wouldn't a DD pull considerably more from an AW 18650?



It's Nailbender's standard DD 3-mode driver. Since I only use High sparingly as I need it, I've had no heat issues or noticeable dimming in night-to-night use.

Here's the daylight beamshot. It's not that representative of what I see. In reality the hotspot is smaller and spill brighter but at 3 feet the camera cannot meter the hotspot without dimming the entire exposure.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

I see. So it's more of a 4.5A high then 2.8, but you don't use high much.

The spill looks very nice. I can see the same four faint starts that I see in the OP, and slight ringyness, but it looks almost as good as my light OP. My SMO was far more ringy then that.

Out of curiosity, is yours a 5700k WJ or a 6500k WJ? I got lucky with a 5700k, and despite the rated 70 CRI, it really does a nice job of making colors stand out - the yellowish lights works far better then the cool blue of my Maglight LED.


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## bullettproof (Jan 23, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> I see. So it's more of a 4.5A high then 2.8, but you don't use high much.
> 
> The spill looks very nice. I can see the same four faint starts that I see in the OP, and slight ringyness, but it looks almost as good as my light OP. My SMO was far more ringy then that.
> 
> Out of curiosity, is yours a 5700k WJ or a 6500k WJ? I got lucky with a 5700k, and despite the rated 70 CRI, it really does a nice job of making colors stand out - the yellowish lights works far better then the cool blue of my Maglight LED.



So let me get this right you can get a 3-mode Direct drive Nailbender SST-50 that feeds the SST-50 4.5A direct drive?? If so in the DBS ow hot is it getting ?? How does a single 18650 handle it ?? runtime 15 minutes?? 

I just bought a DBS XP-G and Im very impressed with the Throw and Spill very nice light.But I just received my new version Catapult today my first SST-50 light and Im very impressed so far.This thread has me very intrested in my DBS right now. 

lovecpf


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

bullettproof said:


> So let me get this right you can get a 3-mode Direct drive Nailbender SST-50 that feeds the SST-50 4.5A direct drive?? If so in the DBS ow hot is it getting ?? How does a single 18650 handle it ?? runtime 15 minutes??
> 
> I just bought a DBS XP-G and Im very impressed with the Throw and Spill very nice light.But I just received my new version Catapult today my first SST-50 light and Im very impressed so far.This thread has me very intrested in my DBS right now.
> 
> lovecpf


It's a very bad idea. The heat it generates simply can't be dissipated in a host that size; it starts off amazingly bright, but falls so fast that in a matter of seconds it's below the output of 2.8A and still falling fast, ending up guzzling batteries and outputting FAR less light then the 2.8A. 2.8A is about the limit for what a 1x18650 handheld host can dissipate, we need to see more efficient LEDs or phosphor coatings that can take the heat before driving above ~3A.


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## SCEMan (Jan 23, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> Out of curiosity, is yours a 5700k WJ or a 6500k WJ? I got lucky with a 5700k, and despite the rated 70 CRI, it really does a nice job of making colors stand out - the yellowish lights works far better then the cool blue of my Maglight LED.



Nailbender said it was "cool white" but it's definitely warmer than all but my "vintage" Malkoff M60.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

It's labeled either 5700k or 6500k on the package it comes in. Any chance you remember what that was? 6500k used to be the only one available, but 5700k has recently come out in WJ bin, and it's the warmest color available in WJ.


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## Linger (Jan 23, 2010)

Josh,
I appreciate you're proud of the torch you constructed. Nailbender's products have a long list of very happy owners. Some people really enjoy dereelight. Any chance you can do a beamshot with the vanilla p60 sst-50 drop-in vs. your dereelight assembly, ideally with camera settings locked -or - with a 3rd light on constantly so that the two sst-50 shots can be compaired to a fixed reference.

Interesting with the thermal paste between the reflector and body - if you wipe one side clean, then assemble, how much transfers across (i.e. how much contact is there)

I guess I'm just going to say the title of your post is really indicative of your enthusiasm and satisfaction with the torch.

Best,
Linger

p.s. sometime I'll show you my alien-tech pocket-thrower


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

Linger said:


> Josh,
> I appreciate you're proud of the torch you constructed. Nailbender's products have a long list of very happy owners. Some people really enjoy dereelight.
> 
> I guess I'm just going to say the title of your post is really indicative of your enthusiasm and satisfaction with the torch.
> ...



Lemme rephrase that... Most powerful pocket thrower available to the general public 

Your triple-XPG will hopefully retake the title of most powerful pocket light after the SST-50 took it from the triple XP-E, the XP-G has higher efficiency at low wattage then the SST-50 so it shouldn't be too hard. With a good enough optic\reflector setup, you could probably outhrow the SST-50 as well. But the last progress estimate I saw put it on 'limited availability 3-4 months from now', so I still have time to enjoy mine 

In other news: Just measured tailcap current on a fresh AW battery, got 3.04A. So at least 2.8A is getting to the LED, probably higher depending on driver efficiency.

EDIT: Also, your RX-1 helped inspire me to try this. The head on the RX-1 was much too big for my needs, but the DBS has a considerably smaller head while retaining great throw.




> Thanks for replying to my post regarding the SST-50 DBS. So Nailbenders drop in is regulated at 2.5 3 mode and 2.8 single Im confused by this because everyone is saying direct drive. Is it that impressive in the DBS ??



The new Catapult is 3A instead of 2.8 its not dark yet but from what I can tell its very impressive like over 2 times as bright as my DBS XP-G bright. Thanks buddy.
Regulated means 2.5A\2.8A\3A\whatever a set number of amps that the driver limits the current to. Direct drive means the battery is directly wired to the LED, and the current to the LED is limited only by the battery's internal resistance, frequently resulting in 4A+ readings that quickly overheat P60 hosts.

I just measured the tailcap on mine, and got 3.04A - Nailbender underrated the driver a bit. Given that I'm using a WJ binned SST-50 (the highest binning, manufactures like Thrunite frequently buy a little lower to save money), it's entirely possible that I'm beating the Catapult in overall output and pretty much tying it in throw. Then again, the Catapult could be underrated as well; you would need DMM readings off the tailcap to compare them directly. The Catapult would also have less of a drop in output due to heat buildup, although the DBS's drop should be well under 40 lumens (unnoticeable except by calibrated, high-end light meters).



bullettproof said:


> Wow thats impressive in the DBS. Sounds like hes got a darn nice driver in there are you running single or 3 mode?? The Catapult running 3A is great but I would love to run it at say 5A when someone comes up with a driver that can perform.Im gonna order a SST for the DBS.However Im pretty sure Dereelight is going to be offering one soon at an affordable price also.I appreciate your time wish you had a Catapult to compare the DBS to theres quite a bit of difference in reflector depth and width on the Catapult but its built like a Tank Im liking it !!!! Thanks


It's actually two ~1.4A drivers sandwiched in parallel. As such, it's only available in single mode. Nailbender only does a few of them, according to him it is very difficult to solder both boards in a single P60 pill. The Catapult puts out between 29-30k lux, so it would be a marginally better thrower with a slightly tighter hotspot and less sidespill then the DBS (along with better runtime thanks to the two batteries).

Also, in defense of my light: The DBS is a tank as well, the dual O rings + reegreassing I did + the stock IPX8 spec = no worries about submersion, and every part of the light is thick and sturdy 

The Thrunite is quite nice as well, though, build quality is supposed to be top notch.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

Added a few more beamshots, still waiting for a clear night to drive down to the fields and see what this thing can really do


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## sfca (Jan 23, 2010)

I get the gist that 2.5A P60 SST-50 - good.
2.8A P60 SST-50 - bad.

Since 2.5A tested at 460 /470 lumens, I would think (but I don't know!) that 2.8A would provide that little extra to go over 500 lumens.

Using copper strips or tape what would be the result?


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

Why 2.8A bad? I think that thermal paste + the larger DBS head more then make up for the extra amperage, I would guess I get less of a drop off then a 2.5A in a P60 host.

The deeper reflector does cut output by 10-15%, though, so it probably doesn't quite break 500. In the P60 reflector it almost certainly does, at least at turn on


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## flashfiend (Jan 23, 2010)

Just curious if anyone knows, what is the diameter of the LED hole for the reflector? I'm thinking about using a sst-90 pill in this but I'm not sure if it will fit. The MC-E diameter for its optic dome is 6.36mm and the sst-90 is 8mm according to the data sheets.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 23, 2010)

flashfiend said:


> Just curious if anyone knows, what is the diameter of the LED hole for the reflector? I'm thinking about using a sst-90 pill in this but I'm not sure if it will fit. The MC-E diameter for its optic dome is 6.36mm and the sst-90 is 8mm according to the data sheets.



Just for the record, I wouldn't recommend it. The SST-90 can take a lot more wattage then the 50, but <5A it doesn't produce much more lumens then the 50. It has a much floodier beam, and you won't get nearly as good of throw in the DBS. Either go with a 50 in a smaller P60 host for partial flood\throw or a 50 in a DBS throw, or a 90 in a P60 for very floody.


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## flashfiend (Jan 23, 2010)

So do you know if it will fit or not? I'm familiar with the output differences below 5amps. I just like to make odd combinations I guess. I already have the 50 in a P60 sized reflector and the 50 I have will not be risked in a DBS (it's direct drive).


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## SCEMan (Jan 24, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> It's labeled either 5700k or 6500k on the package it comes in. Any chance you remember what that was? 6500k used to be the only one available, but 5700k has recently come out in WJ bin, and it's the warmest color available in WJ.



My packaging reads:
Cool White - GJ Bin - 650 lumen


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## joshconsulting (Jan 24, 2010)

SCEMan said:


> My packaging reads:
> Cool White - GJ Bin - 650 lumen



Yea, you bought yours earlier before Nailbender updated the packaging. All the early ones were 6500k, but there wasn't much of a difference between my 5700k and my 6500k.


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## sfca (Jan 24, 2010)

Just trying to source info for my project 

In a P60 format and running on 2 CR123s

2.8A single mode direct drive or regulated (choice?)

Since I only intend to use it max 1 minute continuously...

So based on the ratings for the 2.5A (and since in layman's logic 2.8 ain't too far off from 2.5




) we should see the same kind of drop off.

Except w/ 2.5A:
470 lumens turn on
430 lumens @ 1 minute

w/ 2.8A
500+ lumens turn on 
460 lumens @ 1 minute


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## joshconsulting (Jan 24, 2010)

sfca said:


> Just trying to source info for my project
> 
> In a P60 format and running on 2 CR123s
> 
> ...


No such thing as 2.8A DD; DD will pull as much power as the LED can out of the battery, Regulated will deliver a specific amount of power (2.8A, in this case) before dropping out of regulation when the battery can no longer supply the power. DD often hits the LED with 4A+, resulting in massive lumens drops in under 30 seconds. 2.8A\2.5A regulated have a similar dropoff, but those numbers are for a P60 host (the DBS has a much bigger head\reflector, where all the heat is concentrated, making it much better at dissipating it) and don't include active cooling such as your hand or moving air, so in reality the drop off could be significantly smaller. 2.8A (IMO) represents the best compromise between thermal drop off, runtime, length of regulation, and overall light output. And for the record, the 2.8A driver is actually reading 3.04A at the tailcap


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## sfca (Jan 24, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> No such thing as 2.8A DD; DD will pull as much power as the LED can out of the battery, Regulated will deliver a specific amount of power (2.8A, in this case) before dropping out of regulation when the battery can no longer supply the power. DD often hits the LED with 4A+, resulting in massive lumens drops in under 30 seconds. 2.8A\2.5A regulated have a similar dropoff, but those numbers are for a P60 host (the DBS has a much bigger head\reflector, where all the heat is concentrated, making it much better at dissipating it) and don't include active cooling such as your hand or moving air, so in reality the drop off could be significantly smaller. 2.8A (IMO) represents the best compromise between thermal drop off, runtime, length of regulation, and overall light output. And for the record, the 2.8A driver is actually reading 3.04A at the tailcap




I see! These technical things are so hard for me to get my head around.

I thought the SST-50 driver that had problems was a 5A direct drive, compared to the one measured on Mrgman's thread which was 2.5A direct drive.

So which one is yours - 2.8 regulated?


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## joshconsulting (Jan 24, 2010)

sfca said:


> I see! These technical things are so hard for me to get my head around.
> 
> I thought the SST-50 driver that had problems was a 5A direct drive, compared to the one measured on Mrgman's thread which was 2.5A direct drive.
> 
> So which one is yours - 2.8 regulated?



Direct drive doesn't have a number attached to it. There is no such thing as a 2.5A direct drive. Direct drive means whatever the battery can supply. Get a cheap trustfire, and your direct drive might start out at 2.5A and drop to 2.0A after a few minutes as the battery drains. Get a high quality AW IMR and you'll get close to 6A out of it with direct drive. An AW 18650 2600 will supply around 4A direct drive.

Regulated means the current is limited to whatever the driver decides - 2.8A, 2.5A, 2.0A, whatever. It has a number attached to it as the 'upper limit' between what the LED wants and the battery can supply. Think of it as a flow restrictor on a hose; you can put as much current behind it as you want (the LED will take 6A+), but the regulated driver is like a valve only partially open, only allowing 2.8A through. Mine is a 2.8A regulated.


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## sfca (Jan 24, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> Regulated means the current is limited to whatever the driver decides - 2.8A, 2.5A, 2.0A, whatever. It has a number attached to it as the 'upper limit' between what the LED wants and the battery can supply. Think of it as a flow restrictor on a hose; you can put as much current behind it as you want (the LED will take 6A+), but the regulated driver is like a valve only partially open, only allowing 2.8A through. Mine is a 2.8A regulated.



I'm back! Here's the missing piece of the puzzle for me "Direct drive doesn't have a number attached to it."

Thanks.


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## bkumanski (Jan 25, 2010)

Josh,

Does Nailbender state his DD SST50s are 2.8A?...I thought I saw this on the sticker on the side of mine. Anyway, it always seemed a little strange to me a DD can have levels...I know it has to be PWM, still full power but on off really fast, but it just sounds funny.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 25, 2010)

bkumanski said:


> Josh,
> 
> Does Nailbender state his DD SST50s are 2.8A?...I thought I saw this on the sticker on the side of mine. Anyway, it always seemed a little strange to me a DD can have levels...I know it has to be PWM, still full power but on off really fast, but it just sounds funny.



I'm not sure, I don't think he does online. It could be in the packaging, having never got one I don't know


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## SCEMan (Jan 25, 2010)

bkumanski said:


> Josh,
> 
> Does Nailbender state his DD SST50s are 2.8A?...I thought I saw this on the sticker on the side of mine. Anyway, it always seemed a little strange to me a DD can have levels...I know it has to be PWM, still full power but on off really fast, but it just sounds funny.



I thought the same thing and asked him. Nailbender said that the SST-50 DD with an AW 2600/18650 would pull about 3A. Larger batt setups will pull more if properly "wired". I guess the 2.8A label covers less efficient batteries.


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## rickypanecatyl (Jan 25, 2010)

Josh! I love your light and I'm getting ready to copy it - hope that's ok  I'm kind of new at this though and I'm confused by the captions on your 3rd and 4th pictures.
 
3rd pictures says
“First, the SST-50 in P60 dropin format:”
4th picture says
“Next, the SST-50 in the DBS”
 
I’m confused but that’s because I’m fuzzy on the difference between a pill, pill/driver and a “dropin”. Is a the dropin the combo of the driver/sst 50 bulb/reflector? And then is the “SST-50 in the DBS” what you get when you take the reflector off of Nailbenders “dropin” and put Dereelights own MC-E light OP reflector on top of nailbenders driver/led combo and put the whole thing inside Derelights housing?
 
I’m also assuming (though of course I could be way off building on all my assumptions by now J) that as long as the power supply is the same, the SST-50 dropin and the SST in the DBS have the lumen output, but in the DBS it makes it more of a thrower?
 
Thanks Josh and sorry for all the questions!
 
Wait one more – if I get the 3 mode one from Nailbender do you think that will work seamlessly with the Dereelight’s body UI?
 
Rick
 
 
*PS Can someone correct my homework?*
 
*Driver* = regulates the current from the batteries to the LED bulb *(True or False)*
 
*Pill* = the combination of both a driver AND the LED bulb *(True or False)*
 
*Dropin* = a “pill” + a reflector; or the combo of a driver, LED bulb and reflector *(True or False)*


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## joshconsulting (Jan 25, 2010)

Your pretty much correct. The only thing is that the deeper reflector of the DBS slightly reduces overall output while vastly increasing throw.


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## rickypanecatyl (Jan 25, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> Your pretty much correct. The only thing is that the deeper reflector of the DBS slightly reduces overall output while vastly increasing throw.


 

So Nailbender sends you the driver/led/reflector combo, you take off his reflector and put the DBS V3 MC-E light OP reflector? Does that screw on or glue on?

Thanks Josh! Sorry for all my basic questions!


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## bigchelis (Jan 25, 2010)

rickypanecatyl said:


> So Nailbender sends you the driver/led/reflector combo, you take off his reflector and put the DBS V3 MC-E light OP reflector? Does that screw on or glue on?
> 
> Thanks Josh! Sorry for all my basic questions!


 

They screw in...Just remove the reflector from the pill.

DBS w/ XP-G R5 = will allow you to screw in any P60 pill from XP-G and XP-E only.

DBS W/ MC-E = Will allow you to screw in any P60 pill from XP-G ~SST-50

I have been very impressed with the DBS (turbo heads). They were designed with throw in mind and even out throw my TLS 2.5in Turbo heads with the same LED's. I always wanted throw, but the 2.5in Turbo heads are huge for pocket carry. DBS heads are small in comparison and offer more throw to boot.


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## rickypanecatyl (Jan 29, 2010)

Josh did I read on another thread somewhere that you were having a problem with your tail switch? Do think you just a faulty switch or that maybe it couldn't handle the extra draw?

I contacted Jay to get the parts but he alluded that they about to release a DBS SST 50. I don't if that means 6 months or what though but I did hold off.


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## joshconsulting (Jan 29, 2010)

rickypanecatyl said:


> Josh did I read on another thread somewhere that you were having a problem with your tail switch? Do think you just a faulty switch or that maybe it couldn't handle the extra draw?



I had a mechanical issue. The back pin was sideways and not centered, sometimes it would slip and immediately click back instead of staying on. A new cap from Jay fixed it, no problems since.


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## waddup (Jan 29, 2010)

i put a p7 in my spear clone, nice having lots of lumens and a deep throwy reflector.

i gotta have modes tho, low med high.


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## rickypanecatyl (Jan 29, 2010)

Josh any chance you are going to send it out to gman for testing?


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## joshconsulting (Jan 30, 2010)

rickypanecatyl said:


> Josh any chance you are going to send it out to gman for testing?



Big C's the one with the spear now. And yes, I haven't got around to talk to him about it, but once I do it'll probably ship out early next week (monday or tuesday).


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## EV_007 (Jan 30, 2010)

I like the various options available for this platform. Ability to choose the tint and power options is just awesome.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 8, 2010)

http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2442279

*sigh*. And it's up for sale :mecry:

The lure of new technological gadgets is too strong, I have to resell everything I buy to avoid going bankrupt. This light will turned into a secondary pump and a couple of new fans and radiators in my computer in preparation for summer 

I sure will miss this light, though. My K-106 just isn't going to be the same.


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## bigchelis (Feb 9, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2442279
> 
> *sigh*. And it's up for sale :mecry:
> 
> ...


 

Well you had a cool lego for sure. Got bored already????? Not bright enough?

I have a 2C Mag SST-50 tested with 2.4~2.5A at the tail off 2 IMR or DX C cells it pulls over 950 OTF lumens. This is like 5A at the LED and yet it doesn't suffer in the OTF department like the SST-50 P60 direct drive drop-ins. I told you it was the heatsink

Good luck with your sale and what super thrower now?


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## joshconsulting (Feb 9, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> Well you had a cool lego for sure. Got bored already????? Not bright enough?
> 
> I have a 2C Mag SST-50 tested with 2.4~2.5A at the tail off 2 IMR or DX C cells it pulls over 950 OTF lumens. This is like 5A at the LED and yet it doesn't suffer in the OTF department like the SST-50 P60 direct drive drop-ins. I told you it was the heatsink
> 
> Good luck with your sale and what super thrower now?



Sure, claim credit now. I was all about the heatsinking BEFORE it was cool :ironic: "Heat would be the only factor causing a drop after instant lummens" - Joshconsulting, over a month ago

Heat is something I think the DBS has a big advantage over SF 6P clones. There's a lot more mass in the bigger head and reflector, and it heats up pretty evenly and a lot more slowly then my L2p head did. I suspect it's a lower initial drop, and really helps dissipate heat when your not holding it - the surface area in the hottest parts is 2-3x greater then the L2p. I'm really hoping someone in your area gets a SST-50 from Nailbender that you can test in a DBS, I'd still like some real world numbers (although they'll just make me sad if I've already sold it).

And no, brightness isn't the issue. It's simply lack of a real use. I finally achieved my goal in the lumens race, and it quite effectively blinds me for working up close from 7-8 inches with the reflection, the floodier P60 SST-50 wasn't bright enough to do it. But I don't go on enough nighttime hikes to need a few hundred yards of throw, and the lure of new computer upgrades is strong.

I'm not just plugging my light because I'm selling it, I'm still enthusiastic about my previous L2p. I think the SST-50 is a long ways ahead of any other LED in all but very low and very high amp applications, and the DBS offers an unbelievable performance to size ratio that far surpasses any other setup.


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## easilyled (Feb 9, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> Sure, claim credit now. I was all about the heatsinking BEFORE it was cool :ironic: "Heat would be the only factor causing a drop after instant lummens" - Joshconsulting, over a month ago



Hey Josh, MrGman was banging on about overheating due to inadequate heat-sinking destroying lumen readings well over a year ago. 

Its no surprise to me looking at the P60 drop-in design that it is inefficient at distributing the heat. After all instead of the heat-sink being snug against the body of the flashlight, it is surrounded by that very efficient insulator called air.

So there is no where for the heat to go after the heat-sink heats up, except to stay in the heat-sink itself while it inevitably becomes progressively hotter and hotter.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 9, 2010)

Yea, it's fairly obvious that heat is the biggest factor when the batterycan handle the load without much sag. The best thermal path seems to be through th reflector; all it takes is a few square milimeters of good contact between the brass pill and aluminum reflector to transfer 5-7 watts of heat. That's why I think the bigger reflector of the DBS should help with heat - it's large for better heat dissipation, and has a large area of a nearly airtight seal between the base of the reflector and the flashlight body, much larger then a standard P60 module.


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## lazaris (Feb 9, 2010)

Can you use cr123's or rechargeable cr123's with this light? Also with the modifications you made can you still change/upgrade parts from DBS as them become available? Reflectors and such.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 9, 2010)

Cr123 yes, rcr123 no. It is completely compatable and legos with all of the standard DBS v3 stuff, although the xpg reflector only fits an xpg led.


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## Blindasabat (Feb 9, 2010)

Nice review! 
How big are your pockets? Because I would not consider this a "pocket" light.
Good job on setting up the beamshots with the daytime shots for comparison.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 9, 2010)

Blindasabat said:


> Nice review!
> How big are your pockets? Because I would not consider this a "pocket" light.
> Good job on setting up the beamshots with the daytime shots for comparison.



Big. I'm skinny but tall, so I end up with baggy pants with huge pockets. It slides in and out with no problem, but the weight and bulk would make this a poor choice as an EDC. Great if I'm heading to jobs where I think I'll need it, though - no issues carrying it in pockets for a few hours. Nice that you don't have to hold it or set it down somewhere.


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## Fusion_m8 (Feb 10, 2010)

Is there a SMO reflector that will fit the DBS SST-50??? Since its a single die LED, a SMO reflector won't give "rings of Saturn" would it?


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## bigchelis (Feb 10, 2010)

Fusion_m8 said:


> Is there a SMO reflector that will fit the DBS SST-50??? Since its a single die LED, a SMO reflector won't give "rings of Saturn" would it?


 

Yes there is..

You have to purchase the MC-E DBS bezels Reflector and just mention you want the smooth variant. Normally; they come with OP only. 

bigc


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## joshconsulting (Feb 10, 2010)

The smo gave me two rings, the VLOP gave me a completely smooth beam with no noticeable effect on hotspot size or intensity.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 14, 2010)

Does anyone have an m2s to compare? I'm curious how a custom-designed SST-50 reflector setup would do against the DBS.


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## mvyrmnd (Feb 16, 2010)

While the hotspot won't be as tight (it's been established before) this light should give your DBS a run for it's money 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/261466

*(8^3) / 2*


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## kengps (Feb 18, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> Does anyone have an m2s to compare? I'm curious how a custom-designed SST-50 reflector setup would do against the DBS.


 
Do you mean a Jetbeam M2S?


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## joshconsulting (Feb 18, 2010)

kengps said:


> Do you mean a Jetbeam M2S?



Yes. The M2S beats the DBS\SST-50 by a reasonable margin in overall output (~450 to ~600) and throw (~24k to ~34k), but is much larger with a gigantic head - I'd like to see how the two compare.


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## kengps (Feb 18, 2010)

working on a mini review now....


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## kengps (Feb 18, 2010)

Got all the components in hand tonight to assemble mine. WOW what a great reflector. Did a comparison with all my other lights and it is hands down the best beam pattern I've ever had. I ran it against my new M2S Jetbeam on mid-mode (480 lumens)...and the throw is better on the M2S. It is noticable, but not a huge difference. With the M2S you get a fat, bright hotspot (50% bigger in Dia than DBS), then nothing off the center, followed by very wide, weak, sidespill. The DBS LOP reflector blows it away off to the sides of the hotspot, and without (to me) the annoying side-spill. I don't like my surroundings being lit up by a thrower, it ruins my night vision. I have a table full of reflectors and SST-50's and this is THE reflector I am going to use for my upcoming light project with a more powerful SST-50. (just bought a lathe)


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## kengps (Feb 18, 2010)

Just to add...The M2S does match the DBS on off-center lux when it is on high (1000 lumen). So with the LOP reflector and a matching SST-50...I would say you're going to get maybe 30,000 lux Vs the M2S's 35,000 lux, and a lot more off-center light. Considering how much bigger the M2S is, and the annoying wide-angle sidespill, I think a DBS LOP with an SST-50 putting out maybe 700-750 lumen would make my M2S a dust collector.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 18, 2010)

kengps said:


> Just to add...The M2S does match the DBS on off-center lux when it is on high (1000 lumen)



Just look at http://site.bugoutgearusa.com/M2SSmall.jpg and http://extremetorches.com.au/images/Dereelight DBS V2.jpg, then remind yourself that the M2S's body tube is TWICE as long as the DBS's, even though it looks tiny dwarfed by that giant head.

Any chance you could get a shot of the two side by side?

Oh, and I'm no longer praising things I own. The DBS has officially (and sadly) been sold


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## kengps (Feb 18, 2010)

Never done any beamshots, and my observations are spoken as an amateur. But I'll give it a try.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 18, 2010)

kengps said:


> Never done any beamshots, and my observations are spoken as an amateur. But I'll give it a try.



Oops, I meant the lights themselves (to compare sizes). Beamshots would be awesome too though


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

First image...M2S on the left, DBS Light OP reflector right. Can't see it but the DBS has a more intense center hot spot that is about 2/3 the size of
M2S hotspot.






All auto exposure, so you can't compare intensity. But this gives you an idea of the sidespill of M2S vs DBS









Here is my test rig to compare the size to an M2S.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 19, 2010)

Nice shots 

I love the beam profile on the DBS. I'm sitting next to it so I turn it on and point it at the wall each time I look at the shot, ours are very similar 

Out of curosity, is yours a 2.8A or 2.5A? The 2.5A runes at 2.6A actual, the 2.8A runs at 3.04A actual so it's a good 15-20% brighter. GJ bin, I assume?


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

It's a DD. been running a good 4 minutes or so on an 18650. Says GJ100 on the side.


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

I'm thinking of turning off the threads on the back of the reflector to flush mount an SST-50 mounted to a heat sink. Could still keep it fairly small and pocketable still.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 19, 2010)

kengps said:


> It's a DD. been running a good 4 minutes or so on an 18650. Says GJ100 on the side.


Direct drive will have far lower output then a regulated 2.5A within 30 seconds, and less then half as bright in 4 minutes, at least if your running off of an IMR cell. If it's a LiPo, double both of those numbers (rough guess).



> I'm thinking of turning off the threads on the back of the reflector to flush mount an SST-50 mounted to a heat sink. Could still keep it fairly small and pocketable still.


Not sure if that would help. All a larger heat sink would do is give you a few more minutes of runtime before it got too hot as the heatsink heated up; you need a faster way to transfer heat out of the flashlight body by increased air or hand contact.


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

Well...guess I'll have to study up some more. But other manufacturers are getting 700-1000 somehow. All I know is I want this reflector and keep it pocketable.

Here are 2 more shots with even exposure.


M2S at mid-mode 480 lumen 





Nailbender SST-50 DBS Light OP 500 lumen? You can't tell from the pic, but the DBS continues
to get brighter toward the center. The hottest part is about 60-70% diameter of the M2S hot spot.
It reminds me a lot of a Malkoff M60 which is still the most useful R2 out there as far as I'm
concerned.





As you can see, the Jetbeam is all throw down the middle and weak sidespill out wide.
The DBS reflector has a much more useful beam and doesn't light up your surroundings
screwing up your ability to look down range.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 19, 2010)

> Well...guess I'll have to study up some more. But other manufacturers are getting 700-1000 somehow. All I know is I want this reflector and keep it pocketable.



They lie. The Thrunite driver supplies 3.0A at the LED, meaning that they are seeing the same or FEWER emitter lumens at turn on unless they manage to have the same GJ bin (which I doubt) - and at 3A, output only drops marginally (470->415 for a 2.6A in P60 host, probably less in a DBS) over 4 minutes. The DBS is essentially a Catapult with slightly lower lux and faster dropping output in a form factor half as long and wide.

The M2S runs it at 4A, which is pushing it - a DD IMR 18650 in a P60 host pushed 5.18A to the LED, but the heat overwhelmed the host in seconds; the larger body of the M2S is able to cope with it and dissipate it before the junction temperature rises too high, so they likely see ~25% more OTF lumens compared to the DBS with less of a drop and a higher lux thanks to the larger reflector - assuming they get as good of binning as a custom module.


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

My M2S is getting ready to go back. It starts blinking when running mid-mode in far too short a time. (guessing 5-10 minutes max) on 2 18500 IMR's. Tried to run 2 18650 Li-ions and IMR button tops and it won't work with the etension for some reason. Not to mention the problems with the UI.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 19, 2010)

kengps said:


> My M2S is getting ready to go back. It starts blinking when running mid-mode in far too short a time. (guessing 5-10 minutes max) on 2 18500 IMR's. Tried to run 2 18650 Li-ions and IMR button tops and it won't work with the etension for some reason. Not to mention the problems with the UI.



Manufacturing defects happen, the measure of a manufacturer lies in how it handles dissatisfied customers


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

Well, I guess I'll just be happy with 3 amps or so. It really is a great reflector for an SST-50. If I need more throw I'll bring my A9 aspheric or DEFT thats hopefully gonna ship next week.


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> Manufacturing defects happen, the measure of a manufacturer lies in how it handles dissatisfied customers


 
Yep, but the UI is quite problematic. I'm afraid they're gonna change the programming and leave the first batch hanging. Makes no sense whatsoever for a light to have memory, and then use it to advance a mode on each start.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 19, 2010)

kengps said:


> Well, I guess I'll just be happy with 3 amps or so. It really is a great reflector for an SST-50. If I need more throw I'll bring my A9 aspheric or DEFT thats hopefully gonna ship next week.



And that 157,000 lux of sunshine is gonna stomp all over the 25k of the DBS, 35k of the M2S on high, and the 130000 lux of direct sun at midday during the middle of the summer standing on the equator


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## bigchelis (Feb 19, 2010)

kengps said:


> It's a DD. been running a good 4 minutes or so on an 18650. Says GJ100 on the side.


 

Running direct drive is okay (short bursts) if you have a massive hosts like a Fivemega 3C or Fivemega 1C powered by IMR 26650 or 3 NimH C cells. 

*What is the current you get at the tail?*

I have a 1C Mag SST-50 direct drive from Nailbender and it pulls 4.7A IMR C , while my P60 drop-in SST-50 DD was pulling 5.78A with a small IMR 18650.

The current settles down at 4A in my 1C Mag dd at around 1 minute, while my SST-50 P60 stayed put..I cant explain this at all. I just know the lumens and the current. 

Food for thought. I have 2 Mag C size builds with SST-50's in them. The 2C Mag is regulated at 5A and the 1C Mag is DD ( 4A nominal) yet the OTF lumens are nearly identical at turn-on and 3 minutes. Both are 980~1000 OTF turn-on and over 800 at 3 minutes. It pays to go with a bigger hosts as you can see


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> And that 157,000 lux of sunshine is gonna stomp all over the 25k of the DBS, 35k of the M2S on high, and the 130000 lux of direct sun at midday during the middle of the summer standing on the equator


 
Are you sure 130,000? I thought it was around 10,000.

Not sure what I'll do here in the summer. Doesn't get dark for months. Will have to put off my hobby.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 19, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> Running direct drive is okay (short bursts) if you have a massive hosts like a Fivemega 3C or Fivemega 1C powered by IMR 26650 or 3 NimH C cells.
> 
> *What is the current you get at the tail?*
> 
> ...



I'm assuming those are measured with no form of cooling (i.e. light sitting on the ground touched only by still air)? You should do some tests with active cooling i.e. your hand, I think it would make a difference in the small, ultra-output lights - it's how most people would use them anyway.

Bigger hosts win, though. Fins or other things would help. For a sitting light with little radiant heat, how fast output drops is directly proportional to the surface area of the outside of the light (unless you have really bad internal heatsinking).



> Are you sure 130,000? I thought it was around 10,000.
> 
> Not sure what I'll do here in the summer. Doesn't get dark for months. Will have to put off my hobby.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux



wikipedia said:


> 10,000–25,000 lux Full daylight (not direct sun)[2]
> 32,000–130,000 lux Direct sunlight


Ever stared directly at the sun? It's far more blinding then a blast from the DBS (bright though that is). The DEFT is yet another level above that, considering that most of us only get a fraction of the maximum possible sunlight.

Also, where do you live? It has to be someplace interesting, I'm betting Alaska.


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

I guess I think lower because I live far north. This time of year the sun gets up about 20 degrees at noon time. It appears to be the same strength as my 8000 lux SST-50 at 18" or so from my face with my eyes closed.


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## joshconsulting (Feb 19, 2010)

kengps said:


> I guess I think lower because I live far north. This time of year the sun gets up about 20 degrees at noon time. It appears to be the same strength as my 8000 lux SST-50 at 18" or so from my face with my eyes closed.



I'm near michigan, so not super-strong, but it's impossible to look directly at the sun, even with your lids closed. On a hot summer day at 12, there's just no way - the pain is unbearable as it enters your peripherals. A half-second blast from the DBS into night-adapted eyes leaves me half-blind for 20-30 seconds with a large purple spot for a few minutes and a headache for an hour or two, but nothing compared to the sun.

I do tend to have sensitive eyes, it's almost impossible for me to drive in direct summer afternoon sun without sunglasses to block the glare. Possibly because I keep shining bright things in my eyes.


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## kengps (Feb 19, 2010)

I turned down one of my LOP reflectors today so it would flush mate to the M2S LED. Wow is that a great light. Need to build a housing so I can run the Jetbeam with this reflector.


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## AlexLED (Mar 6, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> Oh, and I'm no longer praising things I own. The DBS has officially (and sadly) been sold



Rest assured that you baby is in very good hands !! :wave:

I'm really impressed with the beam-shape as well and it's exactly what I was looking for: pocketable, bright hotspot, low spill and reasonable runtime. 
:twothumbs

Hope I'll be able to post some outdoor beamshots in the next days, comparing this light with my Wolf-Eyes M90.


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## joshconsulting (Mar 6, 2010)

AlexLED said:


> Rest assured that you baby is in very good hands !! :wave:
> 
> I'm really impressed with the beam-shape as well and it's exactly what I was looking for: pocketable, bright hotspot, low spill and reasonable runtime.
> :twothumbs
> ...



Glad to hear you like the light, I miss it every time I go on a night hike 

Sorry about the customs issues, but it's good to know you got the light safe and sound.


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## kengps (Mar 11, 2010)

Well, I went back and looked at my Lux numbers. I was getting 35,600 with the Jetbeam M2S, 7925 with the Lumapower VX Ultra. All of which are what everybody else gets with their light meters. But I kept coming up with 17,000 lux with the NB DBS L.OP light. It had to be the fact it was not a DD driver. That would also explain why it was no hotter running than my 2.5 A Lumapower pill. Thanks for the help Josh. I am enthused again about this set-up. I plan a bigger heat-sinked light with the same L.OP reflector.


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## kengps (Mar 11, 2010)

The Nailbender board is dead, but the LED still works. I soldered some heavy wires to the LED. With an IMR it will start to go dim in under 2 seconds, all without the brass pill even starting to heat up at all. It showed 740 Lux at 1M before it dimmed. It simply cannot take a Direct drive from an IMR. If I put a 10" long small guage wire (with alligator clips) in line it will run fine at about 450 Lux at 1 M. Before it was giving me 320 Lux at 1M. ( My Lumapower is 330 @ 2.5 Amps) So I think all the lights out there must have a lot of resistance in the switches, contact springs, wiring, boards, etc. If you want more output it's just a matter of lowering the resistance till you get what you want. (or it fries first) If you extrapolate the Lux numbers in a relative manner, and the Lumapower is 550 lumens at the emitter (thats what LP claims) then the DD IMR gave me 1233 Lumens for 2 seconds. That is on the verge of Toast though. When I ran the small guage wire in-line it computes to 750 Lumen, and it ran steady without any dimming. So I'm gonna look into a 4-5 Amp driver. And eliminate as much resistance as possible. I know I seen a sandwich once that was two 2.5A boards wired together. I seen a guy who used a length of wire to get the resistance he wanted also. Not sure how efficient that would be though. BTW...the domed emitter is not very particular about alignment with the light meter. 5 degrees side-to-side makes almost no difference at all.

The wire with clips I put in-line is 11 Ohms.


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## mikeylab (Mar 11, 2010)

Looks awesome.

Does anyone know how to mod the nailbender SST-50 p60 drop-in to fit the DBS? Also, would it be reasonable to use the Dereelight aspherical lens with the SST-50 for the purpose of increasing throw and spot brightness? If not, what would you recommend? Thanks very much!


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## joshconsulting (Mar 11, 2010)

mikeylab said:


> Looks awesome.
> 
> Does anyone know how to mod the nailbender SST-50 p60 drop-in to fit the DBS? Also, would it be reasonable to use the Dereelight aspherical lens with the SST-50 for the purpose of increasing throw and spot brightness? If not, what would you recommend? Thanks very much!



It's one of the simpler mods... Unscrew the pill from the P60 reflector, and screw it into the DBS. Sadly, the die is too big for decent throw with the aspheric.


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## mikeylab (Mar 11, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> It's one of the simpler mods... Unscrew the pill from the P60 reflector, and screw it into the DBS. Sadly, the die is too big for decent throw with the aspheric.



Thanks very much for the advice!


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## mikeylab (Mar 12, 2010)

joshconsulting said:


> It's one of the simpler mods... Unscrew the pill from the P60 reflector, and screw it into the DBS. Sadly, the die is too big for decent throw with the aspheric.



Quick question: Do you know if the Nailbender SST- 50 will fit in the DBS SMO reflector? The only reason that I ask is because I have read this on the FlashlightConnection.com website:

"Like all Dereelight flashlight models, the DBS V3 can upgraded or reconfigured at any time with the available "pills". A pill is a small brass module that contains the circuitry and LED. They're available to suit different battery options, output level options, and LED tint options. Note: The XP-G series will require XP-G pills... the XR-E pills (R2, Q4, etc. will not fit)"

Do you know if this is true? Also, FlashlightConnection.com has omitted this 'note' from their DBS V3 MC-E product pages (the Dereelight website makes no mention of any of this). So then, according to FlashlightConnection.com, it is my understanding that the DBS OP reflector accepts all pills (X-RE or otherwise), while the SMO reflectors only accept the X-PG pills; and thus, based on your modification using the OP reflector, there is a chance that the Nailbender SS-T won't fit in the SMO. Have you tried the SST-50 in the SMO reflector? Just curious.

Another conflict re: product description between Dereelight and FlashlightConnection.com
is as follows:

Dereelight:

"Battery type: 1S, 3SD->single protected or unprotected 18650; 1SM, 3SM-> one protected or unprotected 18650(not recommended, lower output than multi-batteries), 2xCR123A, 2x protected RCR123; 3xCR123A, 3xprotected RCR123 with EXT500 extension tube; 2xprotected 18650 with EXT650 extension tube."

So, the DBS v3 3SM CREE MC-E can run on regular 123. However, according to FlashlightConnection.com, which states on the DBS v3 3SM CREE MC-E product description page:

"3SM circuit: Accepts 2 x RCR123 protected batteries; or 2 x 18650 batteries with optional extension tube. 3.4V - 10.0V input voltage. WARNING: Do not use 2 x CR123 3.0 volt non-rechargeable batteries, they are not designed to withstand the current load that this flashlight places on them. Using them can result in a fire or explosion hazard."

I am inclined to trust the manufacturers info, however I have no reference. I also do not know if the if there is a difference between the models for sale at FlashlightConnection.com and those being advertised on the Dereelight website (could there be sub-versions of the V3?) 

Would love more info on this, if anyone knows. Thanks again!


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## johnzm (Mar 12, 2010)

mikeylab said:


> Quick question: Do you know if the Nailbender SST- 50 will fit in the DBS SMO reflector? The only reason that I ask is because I have read this on the FlashlightConnection.com website:
> 
> "Like all Dereelight flashlight models, the DBS V3 can upgraded or reconfigured at any time with the available "pills". A pill is a small brass module that contains the circuitry and LED. They're available to suit different battery options, output level options, and LED tint options. Note: The XP-G series will require XP-G pills... the XR-E pills (R2, Q4, etc. will not fit)"
> 
> ...




i am running a nailbender SST50 pill in my DBS V2 with a smooth reflector. for all of my uses it is a virtually perfect flashlight. i am very happy


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## bigchelis (Mar 12, 2010)

Mikey,

There are 2 types of DBS Turbo bezels.


XP-G R5 DBS
MC-E DBS
You have to purchase the MC-E DBS bezel and then you can fit any P60 pill. The hole will be perfect for SST-50 and R2 pill too.


If you purchase the XP-G R5 DBS you can only fit other XP-G P60 pills or XP-E P60 pills and that is it.

bigC


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## mikeylab (Mar 12, 2010)

johnzm said:


> i am running a nailbender SST50 pill in my DBS V2 with a smooth reflector. for all of my uses it is a virtually perfect flashlight. i am very happy



That sounds like a reasonable option- thanks!


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## mikeylab (Mar 12, 2010)

bigchelis said:


> Mikey,
> 
> There are 2 types of DBS Turbo bezels.
> 
> ...




Thanks for clarifying- will get the MC-E OP.


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## kengps (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey Josh... Ever done any SST-50 experiments with a Tiablo A9 reflector? I spent half the day today machining down a DBS LOP reflector to fit into an A9 body. THEN :sick2: I thought about lining up the A9 reflector to an SST-50 Pill. It is GOOD....first XR-E reflector I ever saw that works with an SST-50. With a Lumapower pill I got 15,500 with A9, 15150 with DBS. My question...Do you know what difference the DBS Smooth reflector makes vs the LOP in Lux? If its not much better I'm gonna go with the A9 reflector as it's shorter and won't require moving the SST Pill rearward to fit the DBS reflector in the Tiablo head. Thanks.


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## joshconsulting (Mar 13, 2010)

kengps said:


> Hey Josh... Ever done any SST-50 experiments with a Tiablo A9 reflector? I spent half the day today machining down a DBS LOP reflector to fit into an A9 body. THEN :sick2: I thought about lining up the A9 reflector to an SST-50 Pill. It is GOOD....first XR-E reflector I ever saw that works with an SST-50. With a Lumapower pill I got 15,500 with A9, 15150 with DBS. My question...Do you know what difference the DBS Smooth reflector makes vs the LOP in Lux? If its not much better I'm gonna go with the A9 reflector as it's shorter and won't require moving the SST Pill rearward to fit the DBS reflector in the Tiablo head. Thanks.



I don't know the actual lux readings, but according to Alan the VLOP has very little effect on lux, <1k. The VLOP\SMO to OP has much more, around 2-3k. Never thought about an A9 reflector, never really liked the look and size of the Tiablo series. Interesting to see how it would work. Also, you can get more accurate lux readings by measuring at 5m instead of 1m, then dividing by 25 (inverse square law). This gives the beam a chance to converge, and shows a more accurate representation of throw.


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## kengps (Mar 13, 2010)

5 Meters is what I do.......But I multiply by 25 , not divide. I'm sure thats what you meant to say


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## joshconsulting (Mar 13, 2010)

kengps said:


> 5M is what I do.......



Perfect, I assume you divide by 25 or something would be very wrong. I'm curious, what meter do you use? I'm thinking of picking up a cheapo to mess around with.


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## kengps (Mar 13, 2010)

I just got a new Mastech MS8229. My numbers are pretty close to what others get. I got 35,600 with my meter on my M2S. Others get 34,900. My VX Ultra is 7950. Others get 8000.


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## kengps (Mar 13, 2010)

I bought it on Ebay from a place in HK. I think it was $55 shipped. Forget.


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## joshconsulting (Mar 13, 2010)

Wow, quite close readings at a good price. I'll have to see how my collecting hobby goes, I've learned to wait it out to see if my interest grows or dies in a (relatively) new hobby before I make any expensive commitments.


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## kengps (Mar 13, 2010)

OH yes...it's a Multimeter, with the standard functions, plus Temp, Humidity, dB, and Lux. Has a limit of 40,000 lux.


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## kengps (Mar 13, 2010)

Only complaint was it came with Chinese instructions. I'm sure I can probably dowload from Mastech's USA site. But I been using Multi-meters a long time.


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## kengps (Mar 13, 2010)

so what are your hobbies? What's next?


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## joshconsulting (Mar 13, 2010)

There's an edit button on your posts. Use it instead of reply :thumbsup:

I tend to get into various electronics hobbies for a few months, then bail completely. Flashlights have been on and off for a year or so now, so it looks like it'll stick. For now, I'm happy with searching for other people's lux readings


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## mikeylab (Mar 16, 2010)

Just ordered a DBS V3 MC-E w/OP. Looking forward to installing my Nailbender SST-50 within. Thanks again for sharing info on this modification!


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## mikeylab (Mar 24, 2010)

Just received a Nailbender SST-50- pill fits perfectly in the DBS V3. He was kind enough to ship the drop-in with a little thermal grease on the pill's threads. The light emitted form the pill with the deep VBS reflector is very concentrated. I highly recommend this modification- thanks for sharing!


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## recDNA (Mar 24, 2010)

mikeylab said:


> Just received a Nailbender SST-50- pill fits perfectly in the DBS V3. He was kind enough to ship the drop-in with a little thermal grease on the pill's threads. The light emitted form the pill with the deep VBS reflector is very concentrated. I highly recommend this modification- thanks for sharing!


 

Anybody know if it fits in an L2???


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## mikeylab (Apr 7, 2010)

recDNA said:


> Anybody know if it fits in an L2???



I'm not sure if the pill will fit in an L2.

Has anyone tried a nailbender SST-90 in the DBS host? Just curious to know if the hole in the OEM DBS reflector will accommodate the larger SST-90 die.

Thanks!


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