# carrot's guide to high-end lights



## carrot (Jul 2, 2008)

http://www.gearcarrot.com/guides/lights/

I am looking for questions, comments, criticisms and possibly even information. 

I am writing a guide to help answer many questions a flashlight newbie may have as well as provide a suitable reference guide for more advanced users who may have a lapse in memory and forget somethinig important. I would consider the main content to be more than 2/3 finished with polish and photos notwitstanding. 

Right now this is the result of two nights' work and should this receive positive feedback I will continue to work on it until it is a polished guide that is worth money (but of course I won't charge).

Old site: http://cpf.carrot.googlepages.com/flashlight_guide


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## carrot (Jul 2, 2008)

[reserved.]


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## RyanA (Jul 2, 2008)

:twothumbs


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## Monocrom (Jul 2, 2008)

Please finish the other 1/3.


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## Metatron (Jul 2, 2008)

bessiebennie and his review is all the tools one needs, good work though


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## carrot (Jul 2, 2008)

Metatron said:


> bessiebennie and his review is all the tools one needs, good work though


I am not familiar with this; can you provide a link?


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## LightInTheWallet (Jul 2, 2008)

So far, So good. As usual.


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## allthumbs (Jul 2, 2008)

Very nicely done. I can see a lot of though went into your writing. Clear and conscise.:thumbsup:


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## gunga (Jul 2, 2008)

Great job! Thanks for the effort and the good start! This should be required reading...


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## Kid9P (Jul 2, 2008)

Nice job bro!! Great reference tool for any flashaholic old and new :thumbsup:


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## Empath (Jul 2, 2008)

> Put those Maglites away!
> 
> In flashlight enthusiast communities, Maglites are considered the de-facto standard for flashlights you shouldn't be using. There are a few exceptions -- modded Maglites, some of which can get bright enough to cook eggs and start fires (we'll talk about that later too), the MagLED line of flashlights, and the MagCharger. Your ordinary Mini-Maglite uses an incandescent bulb that needs to be replaced every few hours and is a decent light for roughly $10 but is hardly the tip of the iceberg and should not be mistaken for a high-end light. They are quite high-quality in build but the technology they use has been eclipsed many times over and are not worth using if you are serious or interested in getting serious with flashlights. The MagLED lights are pretty good values and are decent lights even amongst the flashlight community but Maglite has been getting flack for picking up the Luxeon LED technology once it has already gotten stale and surpassed in efficiency and brightness.



I only got as far as the fifth segment and realized it was just personal opinion, rather than authoritative. There are many flashlight enthusiasts that have a higher regard for Maglite, than you indicate as "basic knowledge" for "the flashlight newbie".

I've been with CPF for nearly seven years. I started out with somewhere between 30 to 50 flashlights, with probably a dozen of them being Maglites. I appreciated them then, just as I appreciated other flashlights. At present, I have several hundred flashlights, and an appreciation for the many varied brands and types. I still appreciate Maglites.

Actually, the post that brought one of my earliest responses on CPF was in response to a "trashing" post of a particular brand. The brand isn't even one of my favorites, but it was a flashlight. I happen to like flashlights, and couldn't understand why anyone wanted to dislike some particular brand of flashlight.

Flashlights are an industry. Flashlights are a product. Only a limited number of those producing this product produce with a view that flashlights are a "hobby". There is certainly nothing wrong with flashlights as a "hobby", but to focus only on "hobby" interest, is what gives life to the trash-certain-brands type activity. Flashlights, even on CPF, are no more just "hobby", than cars, guns, knives, stamps, coins, or any of the other everyday products that can be made into an enthusiast's hobby.

Many CPF visitors, lurkers, and members don't come here to participate in a hobby. They come for information or have a healthy interest in what's available, the pros, cons, and information about what's new in flashlights. CPF, as it has done for every aspect of flashlights, embraces those that don't seek the hobby aspect, the same as it embraces those that seek the hobby.

I guess I just see nothing "cool" about telling the ones you call "flashlight newbie" that some of their own treasures aren't "cool".


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## R34GTR (Jul 2, 2008)

thank you 4 somewhere to start i can see it is a matter of opinion but it helps


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## adamlau (Jul 2, 2008)

I like it. But you gotta start listing off some actual high end lights. Fenix L1D? Photon? Dude! When you say high end on CPF, you better bring it  .


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## lctorana (Jul 2, 2008)

Empath said:


> I only got as far as the fifth segment...


Post of the year.


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## DM51 (Jul 2, 2008)

Metatron said:


> bessiebennie and his review is all the tools one needs


That is off-topic and nonsense. bessiebennie's thread is about _*budget*_ lights. This thread is about _*high-end*_ lights.


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## Pax et Lux (Jul 2, 2008)

Two suggestions - not criticism, just ideas. . . 

To be negative. . . the Maglite section strays close to opinion stated as fact, even if you did ballance it with praise for the magLED. 
Can I suggest that you just stick in "In my opinion. . ." or even "according to the majority of flashlight community members. . ." or some other weasel words.

Apologies for being so picky - It's an old journalist hang-up of mine.

Point two - a request: what I'd like explained (and I keep intending to post, requesting this), is flashlight math. I have read, but cannot find again, the formulas people use to calculate runtime from output. . . it draws _x_, so runtime must be in the order of _y_.

Finally, praise (I'm not the gushy type). I never knew what LSD (in relation to battery chemistry) stood for untill I read that. Ha! It has value, even though you will never please all the people all the time.


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## kurni (Jul 2, 2008)

This might be an extremely minor thing, I just thought noobs might be overwhelmed by the amount of info. I'm not saying that there should be less info, on the contrary, the more the better. Perhaps it can be solved by creating a table of contents for the logical "mini chapters". A noob might have a specific question in their mind and want to jump straight to the section.

But again, it might be just me who's lazy reading so much info at one go


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## Gunner12 (Jul 2, 2008)

DM51 said:


> That is off-topic and nonsense. bessiebennie's thread is about _*budget*_ lights. This thread is about _*high-end*_ lights.



What are budget light to most of us here might be very high end for many other people.

Some people have a budget of $20 while others have a budget of $2000.

Argument aside, besiebennies thread should be included for those who don't have as big a budget or people who want to test the waters.

The Welcome Mat could also be a good thing to link to, along with the Maglite Upgrades thread for those who want to do something with their Maglites.

Great post Carrot,


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## TONY M (Jul 2, 2008)

kurni said:


> This might be an extremely minor thing, I just thought noobs might be overwhelmed by the amount of info. I'm not saying that there should be less info, on the contrary, the more the better. Perhaps it can be solved by creating a table of contents for the logical "mini chapters". A noob might have a specific question in their mind and want to jump straight to the section.
> 
> But again, it might be just me who's lazy reading so much info at one go


I just read the entire thing and its very well written and clear! :thumbsup: Very good work and it must have taken ages to write and construct it.:bow:

I agree with kurni though that it may be better to split things up a little as it is a pretty large read and may be a little too much on the one page for some. But its all there and nothing needs to be re-done.

Most importantly you forgot to put a link through to CPF where you mentioned it! LOL. 

Great work!


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## Oddjob (Jul 2, 2008)

Nice work Carrot! I think that maybe you could expand a little on the Li-On section and provide a little more warning/info on their use. I don't know how much depth you want to get into but using Li-Ons can be confusing and dangerous to newbie flashaholics.

Also I remember reading a thread where a poster wanted to make it clear that there was no such thing as "Type III hard anodizing". He wrote that it was either "Type III anodizing" or "Hard anodizing". I personally did not know this but I thought I woud bring it up.

Overall awesome work, keep it up!


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## LED-holic (Jul 2, 2008)

VERY nice work...


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## I came to the light... (Jul 2, 2008)

I agree with Empath about the maglite section. What he didn't mention is how to fix it. I think the purpose of the section would be best served by replacing it with a paragraph about the world of flashlights that exists beyond what you find in local stores. About how a flashlight doesn't just put out a bit of light - about all of the intricacies of a high-end flashlight. This avoids trashing a brand, and, if written well (reading the rest of your guide, I have little doubt of that), serves the intended purpose even better than the original. 

Just my 2 cents


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## carrot (Jul 2, 2008)

Empath said:


> I only got as far as the fifth segment, and realized it was just personal opinion, rather than authoritative. There are many flashlight enthusiasts that have a higher regard for Maglite than you indicate as "basic knowledge" for "the flashlight newbie".



My bad. I should have remembered that some CPFers do enjoy using their stock Maglites on a daily basis. So, I will change that section to something Maglite fans will find more acceptable, as to not limit my potential audience.


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## ExZeRoEx (Jul 2, 2008)

I just wanted to note something.
In the Li-ion section, it says 14400 for AA size, I thought it was 14500. Either it was just a typo or I've been under the wrong impression.


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## carrot (Jul 2, 2008)

Whoa. You're right. I'll fix that ASAP.

Pobody's nerfect. :shrug:


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## Kestrel (Jul 2, 2008)

Thank you for the guide, I found it very informative. I appreciated your writing at length about the switches & am looking forward to reading more about my SF two-stage twisties.


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## carrot (Jul 3, 2008)

Major revisions:


> Version 0.25 -- "Put your Maglites away!" has been replaced by "Retail store lights don't cut it anymore". Corrected Li-ion battery size for AA batteries from 14400 to 14500.
> 
> Version 0.30 -- Rearranged sections Body parts and Switches. Added more content to Clicky switches. New sections: Momentary twisty, Two-stage twisty, Piston Drive, Three-stage twisty, Electronic clickies, Selector rings, Potentiometers, Polymer, Useful links, Legal
> 
> Version 0.35 -- Added a hyperlinked table. Updated The guide to this guide. New sections: Basic terminology, beams, lumens and lux. Added other hyperlinks for interested readers.



I am looking for criticisms and questions to help me decide what other content needs to be added. 

I hope to add photographs at some point, but cannot determine a specific date or timeframe.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jul 3, 2008)

Where are the high-end lights? High-tech is not the same as high-end...


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## carrot (Jul 3, 2008)

You probably missed the paragraph where I clearly state my intentions for this guide. Here, I'll quote it for you.



carrot said:


> This guide is meant for flashlight newbies and enthusiasts alike. For the flashlight newbie it should serve as an excellent starting point for understanding purchasing criteria and for the enthusiast it will hopefully serve as a valuable reference guide. Being a longtime fan of FlashlightReviews, a site that is sadly no longer updated, I hope to offer this guide as a more current reference to the state of contemporary flashlights.
> 
> This guide is written from a non-technical point of view and will gloss over some of the more technical aspects but also aims to cover everything that the fledgling flashaholic should know about. Cheaper, low-budget flashlights, as well as flashlight modding are outside the scope of this guide, although users who are interested in said categories will still find information they may find useful. I have tried to make this guide as factually correct as within my ability, and where my biases are included I attempt to make it clear.


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## AFAustin (Jul 3, 2008)

carrot, thanks for putting this together. It looks to be a good primer, and will be especially helpful to the newly addicted.

Keep up the good work!

Andrew


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## carrot (Jul 4, 2008)

Looking for suggestions for my next sections... also open to critiques and criticisms.


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## Flying Turtle (Jul 4, 2008)

Nice work there, carrot. Thanks.

Geoff


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## adamlau (Jul 5, 2008)

Higher-end is not as absolute a term as high-end and is perhaps a more appropriate reflection of your work.


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## cave dave (Jul 5, 2008)

The Spy doesn't use a potentiometer. It uses a 7 position rotary switch. In the early version each position had its own sense resitor. The latest version is more complicated.


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## TKC (Jul 5, 2008)

*That IS fantastic!! :twothumbs:twothumbs*


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## mdocod (Jul 5, 2008)

combine your guide with the ones I've been working on (links in sig) and we shouldn't have to answer a question ever again  We can just move right on to opinions and bickering, lol.

I browsed through and it looks really good, great job!


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## bdws1975 (Jul 5, 2008)

what a great page. I'm pretty new and it is really helpful.

brett


carrot said:


> http://cpf.carrot.googlepages.com/flashlight_guide
> 
> I am looking for questions, comments, criticisms and possibly even information.
> 
> ...


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## carrot (Jul 6, 2008)

cave dave said:


> The Spy doesn't use a potentiometer. It uses a 7 position rotary switch. In the early version each position had its own sense resitor. The latest version is more complicated.


How does this work, exactly? It is not infinite brightness?


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## cave dave (Jul 6, 2008)

carrot said:


> How does this work, exactly? It is not infinite brightness?



You mean like the titan? No, the switch is analog, it has an index point (click) at each location and that gives you a certain brightness. There are ~ 8 leads coming out of the bottom of the switch, and current flows from the ground to one of the leads that corresponds to the dial location. Old school but very, very, reliable, much more so than a pot.

Gosh, I was trying to think of an example but I guess they don't make consumer stuff like that anymore. Go down into your fathers basement and look for an old ham radio or something.

Now here is the genius blend of old and new. There is a micro controller on board that allows you to reprogram the brightness level at each click. That is meant for fine tuning, something you might only do once or twice or never. The stock levels are very good. :thumbsup:


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## h_nu (Jul 6, 2008)

Good job, carrot.

I'm sure it's covered in the coming soon area but when you discuss regulation, step up vs. constant current vs. direct drive my be well illustrated by one of Chevrofreak's exvellent runtime graphs. It would be great if he would let you use one for this purpose. Also a mention of the regulator allowing a range of input voltage and it's suitability for using multiple battery chemistries for flexibility.

Under LED vs. incandescent, perhaps some mention of shock resistance assuming the circuitry is well protected should be mentioned as an advantage of LED emitters.

Under polymers, perhaps some mention about poorer heat sinking for LEDs but that some users have expressed preference for polymers in cold weather since it doesn't feel cold. I'm sure i've seen this commented on frequently in G2 discussions.

Under multi-mode, seems obvious to us but perhaps a mention of getting to choose between runtime and brightness.

I hope these comments are what you are looking for. I intend for it to be constructive. 
Great work for the community!


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## carrot (Jul 6, 2008)

Thanks cavedave. I will update with this new information soon.

h_nu, you make a lot of excellent points. Thank you. My next update should reflect what you say.


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## carrot (Jul 12, 2008)

Made the suggested corrections. Here are the version notes:


> Tweaked information on LED vs. Incandescent, polymers and multi-mode per CPF user h_nu's suggestions. Added section on Programmability.



Information regarding regulation will take me some more time than some of the other sections, and I've been putting it off. Some of the other things in my coming soon section requires a bit more intimacy with technical knowledge that I can't claim to have so I will have to do some research.


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## greenLED (Jul 13, 2008)

> The three-stage twisty switch was developed by Henry Schneiker of Ra Lights, formerly HDS Systems. It is currently only featured on the Ra Twisty light. According to Henry, "3 brightness settings are available with a simple twist of the battery compartment. Clockwise for brighter, counter clockwise for dimmer and off." By Henry's track record it should prove very reliable but this new mechanism is too new to know for certain.


Steve, the 3-stage twisty mechanism was developed and implemented long before the Ra Twisty came to be. 

For example, CY has a Li-14430 with a 3 stage twisty. I am not sure whether all Li-14430's are 3-stagers, though, and my memory is too rusty to remember who came up with the design. You might want to ask those involved with the Li-14430 project.

I'll have to read the whole thing a few more times - lots of good info there. Good job.


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## Triple A (Jul 13, 2008)

carrot said:


> http://cpf.carrot.googlepages.com/flashlight_guide
> 
> I am looking for questions, comments, criticisms and possibly even information.
> 
> ...


 
This is HIGHLY sweet, and very helpful. Keep up the good work. This is already a great guide, and I'm sure it will only get better as others put in useful input and positive feedback. Thank You for your Effort. You are educating people about a very important tool! (And a great hobby, as well.)


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 14, 2008)

Carrot, thanks for the time and effort you have put into this. These are my comments all made in a positive and constructive spirit.

There are many more things to say about incans....including not starting out with such a negative opinion as the introductory first sentence implies. It serves to condemn the category, rather than recognizing their many superior performance categories.

Besides the color, there are the benefits of large and multiple sized & surfaced reflectors which incans can take advantage of because they are tubular/spherical and can be focussed in/out of the focal point. 

They are superior for throw, but also specifically in smoke/fog/mist applications. They can be very tiny or massively large such as used in aircraft spotlights. Osram already uses the IRC coating on several models. I have a number of incans that last 45mins or beyond an hour on a single set of rechargeable cells.

Single bulb incans are not just brighter than LED's, they are way brighter than single emitter LEDs. 

I would not list the SF-A2 with the absolute certainty as you did. That may be your incan preference, but not mine. If you want this guide to be related to small pocket lights, then it would be among a number of other excellent choices. 

I agree on the removal of the negative Maglite comments, due to its wonderful platform for modding. I have at least 15 different fully regulated (using AWR's HotDriver) incan lights, and AW is working on a new drop-in soft starting, regulated, multi-level (using PWM) switch/holder.

The lumens (& lux) section is not accurate for many reasons that would get tedious, but I listed some of the correct use of the terms in this post and those following it. Your current description of lumens _("With respect to flashlights, *lumens is the amount of total light that comes out of a flashlight* and lux is the amount of light measured at a single point.")_ is taking into account the reflector, focus, lens, etc. It is more a description of the colloquial term: "*Torch Lumens*" which has no official scientific basis.

Again, please take these comments constructively. :thumbsup:


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## Edwood (Jul 14, 2008)

I found the guide to be quite useful. Almost like a CPF Wiki.

BTW, do "hot rodded" Maglites like Mac's Customs count as high end?

-Ed


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 14, 2008)

Edwood said:


> I found the guide to be quite useful. Almost like a CPF Wiki.
> 
> BTW, do "hot rodded" Maglites like Mac's Customs count as high end?
> 
> -Ed



His section on "Retail not cutting it" takes out a wide swath of territory, and almost puts the guide primarily into the custom modding territory. Surefire and many other quality lights are considered retail, so that may need to be adjusted if not his intention. There are a lot of discount stores (especially sports/camping/hunting) that sell Surefire and other quality brands.


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## carrot (Jul 15, 2008)

greenLED, I was not aware of this. Do you know what the very first 3-stage twisty was? TBH the first I can remember was one that was pretty hyped up when I joined, the AWR Nano. Are you saying the Li-14430 is the name of the model that precedes it?

LuxLuthor, you make a lot of excellent points about incandescents. I admit I am not very "into" the hotwire scene so I can't say I know as much as you or even close to it. I know I am not completely accurate, nor completely un-biased, and your information is much appreciated. I intend for my next revision to give incans a fairer treatment. As for lumens vs. lux I went through some technical explanations and tried to explain it best in layman's terms. I admit I could have probably done a better job on that part but it is also not something I have never really understood in-depth. Maybe I don't understand fully; perhaps you could enlighten me? If "torch lumens" is not scientifically useful, what is? And even then, is it not useful to flashlight users who might want some basis of comparison, as difficult as it is to measure a light by its specs?

As for retail stores, I thought I'd made it clear that I was referring to big-box stores, like the local x-mart. Maybe I need to clarify.


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## LuxLuthor (Jul 15, 2008)

Honestly, it seems there is a small percentage of CPF members who have learned enough (read: "spent enough money") about the variety of incan mods to appreciate their strong points fully. I know most of the valid points that many have made about LED's, but for me it is more an issue of using the right tool for the job. 

Trying to make one category of lights (LED, Incan, HID, etc.) fit all applications is not ideal. They all have their benefits and tradeoffs. I see the categories of lights as similar to a hammer, saw, screwdriver, & pliers. Within each group of tools there are tons of variations and features. 

Regarding the lumen/lux/torch lumens/candela, etc discussion...I would again refer you back to that thread (and links) with member "that_guy." I know the first few times you read this information it seems overwhelming. If you go back to it over several days it starts to make sense. I would be willing to bet that less than 10 current members of CPF actually understand and use all these terms correctly.

"Torch Lumens" is a term that as best I can tell was made up--with the noblest of intentions. It was "determined" in some detailed postings to be 65% of incan bulb lumens. I no longer agree with the accuracy of its description & % estimates. Many of my reasons are in the posts with that_guy, particularly this one.

Where does that leave us vis-a-vis putting together your website? It involves a tradeoff between accuracy & readability. You need to make a judgement call on how to describe things, but it would be ideal to understand the terms before choosing how to compromise the writeup. I'm sure I spent 8-10 hours reading about these terms before I began to understand them enough to recognize when something is stated inaccurately. It is possible to preserve accuracy, while simplifying information. Some of the history of these terms is hysterical, particularly this requote from that thread:



LuxLuthor said:


> ....I know let's assume perhaps a simple strategy and look at the original definition of Candlepower and see if that is straightforward (from Wiki):
> _*The term candlepower was originally defined in England by the Metropolitan Gas Act of 1860 as the light produced by a pure spermaceti candle weighing one sixth of a pound and burning at a rate of 120 grains per hour. Spermaceti is found in the head of sperm whales, and once was used to make high quality candles.*_​


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## nisshin (Jul 15, 2008)

I might suggest that you change the subtitle from "Picking an EDC flashlight and understanding the terminology" to "Picking an up-to-date flashlight and understanding the terminology." First, newbies might be confused by "EDC" which is defined in the second section "Why Carry?" Second, newbies may not consider lights of the size of a Surefire U2 as an EDC light, at first (when they become flashaholics, that's another story). Third, you will seem to be pushing two agendas, that of (a) the merits of every-day-carry and (b) the choosing of high-end flashlights.

Also, you might want to begin with a timeline with beamshots, to show how the basic Maglite line hasn't caught up with newer designs. In other words, give a compelling demonstration right away to catch the newbie's attention. This way, you start with the familiar (Maglite) and wow them with the newer stuff. That would be a more polite and authoritative alternative to "Retail store flashlights don't cut it anymore."


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## carrot (Jul 15, 2008)

nisshin said:


> I might suggest that you change the subtitle from "Picking an EDC flashlight and understanding the terminology" to "Picking an up-to-date flashlight and understanding the terminology." First, newbies might be confused by "EDC" which is defined in the second section "Why Carry?" Second, newbies may not consider lights of the size of a Surefire U2 as an EDC light, at first (when they become flashaholics, that's another story). Third, you will seem to be pushing two agendas, that of (a) the merits of every-day-carry and (b) the choosing of high-end flashlights.
> 
> Also, you might want to begin with a timeline with beamshots, to show how the basic Maglite line hasn't caught up with newer designs. In other words, give a compelling demonstration right away to catch the newbie's attention. This way, you start with the familiar (Maglite) and wow them with the newer stuff. That would be a more polite and authoritative alternative to "Retail store flashlights don't cut it anymore."


Well, first, I am reasonably certain that anybody who lands upon the page will be at least somewhat interested in getting a flashlight. If I were writing a magazine article then maybe it would make more sense to. William Sleator once told me the key to making a book impossible to put down is to ask a question before you answer the previous one. 

Second, I have already been accused of being anti-Maglite, so let's not go down that route again. While you have a good idea there, more and more consumers are starting to become aware that there is more to flashlights outside Maglite and Dorcy's LED line appeals to that market in x-mart stores. I think my current section, "Retail store flashlights don't cut it anymore" is a happy medium.


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## carrot (Mar 9, 2009)

I've made a few significant changes since I last posted an update:


> Version 0.44 -- 2008 August 3 -- Tweaked information on Incandescent and corrected spelling errors throughout.
> 
> Version 0.45 -- 2008 August 4 -- Added more links pertaining to batteries.
> 
> ...


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## vivid (Nov 21, 2009)

carrot,

just wanted to say thanks. Your guide is really quite excellent and I feel considerably more informed for reading it.


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## Dioni (Nov 21, 2009)

I agree! Really the guide is excellent! 

Thank you for the guide :thumbsup:


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## T-3 (Dec 18, 2009)

Umm, all I can say is WOW! Thanks for the excellent guide. Newbies like myself should really take the time to read this guide thoroughly! Extremely educational and informative. Excellent links to other info also. 

Thanks carrot... :thanks:


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## carrot (Apr 17, 2010)

Moved away from Google's hosting services due to lack of support for proper HTML. Designed my own CMS for the guide to hopefully make it easier to navigate.

http://www.gearcarrot.com/guide/lights


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## JCD (Apr 17, 2010)

carrot said:


> Moved away from Google's hosting services due to lack of support for proper HTML. Designed my own CMS for the guide to hopefully make it easier to navigate.
> 
> http://www.gearcarrot.com/guide/lights



Pssst … the correct link is:

http://www.gearcarrot.com/guides/lights/



The lithium ion section could use some more information.

In particular, not all Li-ion chemistries are 3.7 V. For example, LiFePO4 Li-ion cells are ~3.2 Volt, without using special circuitry. Also, LiFePO4 and IMR cells are not prone to the same thermal runaway issues that lithium cobalt cells have developed a reputation for.

It's also worth noting that those two Li-ion chemistries can be safely discharged at much higher relative rates compared to Lithium Cobalt cells. However, their energy density is lower than the LiCo cells, so there is a tradeoff.


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## carrot (Apr 17, 2010)

Yes, the Li-ion section is out of date as LiFePO4 has gained popularity since I wrote it. Unfortunately I do not feel qualified to speak at great depth about Li-ions and will have to do some research before I update that section properly.


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## TornroT (Oct 12, 2010)

Thank you for your guide, Carrot. Wish I'd found it earlier... Been lurking on CPF till my eyes dried up of reading (mostly Selfbuilt's) reviews, trying to decide what I and the family need.

So, as being your target audience, I thought I might try to contribute. This is my first post, so please, folks... bring on the whup'n :wave:

* Typo: "soometimes"

* Are your comments on Li AA price/performance ratio correct? This graph (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/selfbuilt/Battery4.gif) seems to suggest Li AA is the way to go if you do not wish to go rechargeable. Even a 3x price difference would seem quite worthwile.

* IMO, there's an important discussion missing in the Power Source chapter: Whether to go rechargeable or not. It's a _big_ question. Rechargeables are a can of worms and an -icism of itself. I can certainly see the point of staying away from that and staying with e.g. CR123A and/or Li AA.

* Your comments on the importance of CRI were relevant, I felt.

* Your comments on the preferability of "multi-stage and dumb lights" was spot on too. Bravo for keeping it real!

* How about a list of common abbreviations. OTF, EDC, GITD, LSD, LEO... Quite a few are in circulation and they are all baffling to a newbie, especially if your _langue maternelle_ isn't IJE (oh, that's Internet Jargon English...)

* Some experience in consulting has taught me that the first (and last) question should be: "_What do you want?_" I.e. what do you want to do with your flashlight(s)? Why do you want it? If you crave the badassest beamer on the block to blow away the blokes, then runtimes, regulation efficiency, pocketability etc are of absolutely no concern. And so on. It's about helping someone finding "the right tool for the job" as LuxLuthor put it.

* I second Gunner12 that Mag upgrades is worthwile stuff. My very first step on my flashoholization was to buy LED's for my Mags. Priceworthy, shines forever on 2x2D and let's me keep my well made tools in use.

* One of the first hurdles for me was to try to identify the different intended uses of all those shiny things. How about a chapter on that? Examples: a) EDC/keychain, b) walk the dog/get firewood/ditch garbage, c) camping, d) duty/LE/military, e) bragging/frightening the moon/testosterone etc...

 I just realized I found your guide through Google, from where I jumped here, and evidently it's an older version? Hope my comments are not invalid. 

Just my two - erm, lotsa - cents...


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## carrot (Oct 12, 2010)

Your comments are indeed still valid. Thank you for your helpful suggestions and criticism. I will address these in the next update. 

Welcome to CPF!


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## jellydonut (Oct 13, 2010)

I wish more people used the multi-mode and multi-stage terminology.

I also wish more manufacturers would realize there's a large target audience of people who love multi-stage and hate multi-mode lights.


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## qqqqqqqman (Oct 13, 2010)

Thanks, carrot.....I'm a newbie and just reading the guide on BATTERIES o) was very helpful !! Easy to understand and helps navigate thru all the shorthand terms that are thrown around on CPF. I'm SURE I need to read a lot more.....:thumbsup:

**


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## Machete God (Oct 14, 2010)

Never got around to thanking you for this guide, Carrot. It was one of the first I read when I joined CPF (actually before, I was lurking when I came across your guide). Thank you for your hard work and time! lovecpf



jellydonut said:


> I wish more people used the multi-mode and multi-stage terminology.
> 
> I also wish more manufacturers would realize there's a large target audience of people who love multi-stage and hate multi-mode lights.


Well, I cannot count myself among that target audience. I like multi-stage, multi-mode lights (or just 'multi-mode' as defined in carrot's guide). My wish is that more manufacturers come up with great user interfaces for the multi-mode lights they put out!


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## TornroT (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes, understanding multi mode vs multi stage (variable/continous/stepped output?) is a hurdle in the beginning.

My first encounter with a modern flashlight, was a friend's Fenix LD10 he let me fondle :naughty: and I found it quite perplexing. (Total noob here, remember.) I think I could easily get confused with an UI like that in a stressful situation. A _very_ simple UI would probably be best for noobs, at least as a first flashlight, but also for emergency use.

In contrast, the first simple multi stage twisty I fiddled with felt instantly intuitive.

Another thing: An explanation of the term "*tactical*" would also be great, I think. Even after reading a _lot_ I still feel somewhat hazy about it's meaning.

With regards to my earlier post: Helping a noob decide on a flashlight is first and foremost about helping them understand what the "job" is. _Then_ helping them select the best "tool" for it. But then again, I realize, that might not be what your guide's ultimately about, Carrot.


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## jellydonut (Oct 14, 2010)

No wonder you do - 'tactical' doesn't even have a meaning. It's a marketing term - depending on how serious the company using it is it could either be meant to market the product towards police and military use or meant to market it to posers living in basements who are playing pretend of the previously mentioned.

It usually means a ruggedized product with a simple UI meant for stressful situations where you can't afford to be sat clicking through menus to get the light you need.


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 14, 2010)

TornroT said:


> Another thing: An explanation of the term "*tactical*" would also be great, I think. Even after reading a _lot_ I still feel somewhat hazy about it's meaning.


 

The term tactical can refer to the operation of the light. Tactical lights usually have a raised clicky button allowing easy activation even whilst wearing a glove. Usually the switch is a forward clicky which allows for momentary on. In a multi-level light, if it's set up for tactical mode, the light will usually switch to the maximum output or strobe (less common) which is preferred by military personnel and LEO's.


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## SuLyMaN (Oct 14, 2010)

Great guide.Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## TornroT (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank you, jellydonut and Belstaff1464! Seems I had the term "tactical" bang to rights, then. Another tactically important feature seems to be the ability to crack open sku... erm, coconuts.


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## Machete God (Oct 14, 2010)

Don't forget Tacticool, Tactical's half-brother.


TornroT said:


> Thank you, jellydonut and Belstaff1464! Seems I had the term "tactical" bang to rights, then. Another tactically important feature seems to be the ability to crack open sku... erm, coconuts.


Where I am, the word for coconut is 'kelapa'. Compare this with 'kepala', which means 'head'


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## fizzwinkus (Oct 14, 2010)

i thought the word tactical just meant it was super-ultra-Xtreme™?


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## fasuto (Oct 14, 2010)

A tactical light will not light at undesired directions if you drop it, it will turn off. 
In tactical situations a light pointing at you from the floor can be your dead.


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## Launch Mini (Oct 14, 2010)

I didn't read it all, nor all the comments ( time restraints), but I would like to see a small section in the lithium battery section that maybe explains the numbering of them . ie a 10180 is 10mm x 180mm .


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## Belstaff1464 (Oct 14, 2010)

fasuto said:


> A tactical light will not light at undesired directions if you drop it, it will turn off.
> In tactical situations a light pointing at you from the floor can be your dead.


 
I think this is only when you're using momentary on, i.e. as soon as you release the switch the light turns off.


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## EV_007 (Oct 16, 2010)

Nicely done orange one.


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## jgray3690 (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks for this Guide.
I am on a mission to learn and your Guide
was a great help.
thanks


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