# more stupid lathe questions



## VegasF6 (Apr 6, 2009)

Been thinking for some time how much fun a lathe would be. But then, same constraints as anyone, price, space, etc. If I was to buy the harbor freight 9x20, what do you think would be longest maglite battery tube (D size) that internal threading could be done on?

I found this advice here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb//showpost.php?p=2787941&postcount=9
It mentions checking for carriage travel. The 9x20 of course has 20" between centers and 16" of carriage travel. The spindle bore is only 3/4 inch so needless to say the tube would be sticking out quite far. From the very little I know it should be possible to inside thread with some sort of rest. I found this hybrid follow/steady rest plan here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb//showpost.php?p=2787941&postcount=9
So I guess something along those lines would allow internal threading?? This is the part I really don't understand at all though. A 3D mag tube is ~11 inches long. The carriage will travel 16 inches. By the time you put on your tool post and have your threading tool installed etc etc, is it actually possible to do what I want?

I know of course advice is always to get the biggest best lathe possible, but I am afraid the 9x20 pretty much maxes my budget, it is that, or nothing.

Thanks for your time guys!


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## wquiles (Apr 7, 2009)

VegasF6 said:


> Been thinking for some time how much fun a lathe would be. But then, same constraints as anyone, price, space, etc. If I was to buy the harbor freight 9x20, what do you think would be longest maglite battery tube (D size) that internal threading could be done on?
> 
> I found this advice here: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb//showpost.php?p=2787941&postcount=9
> It mentions checking for carriage travel. The 9x20 of course has 20" between centers and 16" of carriage travel. The spindle bore is only 3/4 inch so needless to say the tube would be sticking out quite far. From the very little I know it should be possible to inside thread with some sort of rest. I found this hybrid follow/steady rest plan here:
> ...



You can do great things on a smaller lathe, and it will be very usefull for this crazy hobby of ours, but you also need to undertant the simitations with longer pieces, specially at the diameters in the Mag lights which prevent the tube/body from fitting inside the chuck/spindle. Here are some examples of work/projects on my older 7x machine:
you can do custom parts for custom flashlights:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/192304

work on custom Mags, the 1C being one of my all-time Mag favorites:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/134339
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/189119
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/136176

custom parts not available anywhere:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/149742
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/147652

custom prototypes/mods:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/115724
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/131690
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2496892&postcount=71



Now, Mag-related, and since you specifically mentioned doing internal threading: I have done 70-80 "D" and "C" cut and rethreads in the last year or so, with most of them being a 1D or 1.5D in length:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/220681

If you are cutting them "before" you start the re-threading operation, you "might" have a short enough tube to handle in a 9x machine, if you have some external support or a large enough chuck ID. The problem is that unless you have a chuck that will allow most of the tube to be inside the chuck, you will not be able to safely do rethreading since rethreading (by definition) is done at the point farthest away from the chuck face. If you use a steady rest (or some other external support) then you should be able, but it will not be optimun. 

Working on a 2D or 3D is even more risky since now you have serious over-hang of the tube away from the chuck. Truth be told, you need a larger lathe than even the 9x20 to safely/confortably work on the larger Mags - a 12x36 being the ideal/perfect size. Now, to drive home that point, here is a few pictures that show you the problem. This is a 3D host, using a massive (for an 8x machine - it looks small in my 12x36!) 6" chuck, that does allow the body to go through the chuck, but in a lathe small enough that the spindle precludes the body from going past the chuck - notice how much overhang you have:












You definitely do NOT want to do any threading with a body out that far, at least not with some sturdy support.


If you are limited in funds you should know that you will have to spend close to the same amount you will spend on this 9x lathe on tooling/accesories to actually use the lathe - so double your current budget. Just keep this in mind - this is not the end of your expenditures, just the very beguining :devil:

Bottom line, a lathe is great to have for this hobby. Now you have another data point. Do searches in this sub-forum - many before you have asked a similar question regarding what lathe size to get 

Will


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## VegasF6 (Apr 7, 2009)

First a quick correction of my top post. The homemade rest is here:
http://www.fignoggle.com/workshop/a...e-hybrid-follow-rest-moving-steady-rest-day-2
I pasted the same darn address in 

Will, I have followed your adventures some and I saw the lovely white 12x36 you purchased of course. How I wish I had been the one to take your 8X off your hands 

Cost certainly is a factor, but even more so is space. I dunno if I could squeeze in a 36" machine, and worse is the fact that it weighs about 1500 lbs! Plus, 220V only on those, right? I do expect to have to spend about $1000 more to get half way decently outfitted, tooling wise. I was drooling over the Grainger catalog today. Needless to say I won't be buying much from there, my god that stuff is expensive. I mean, a 4" chuck is about 650$ on its own. I keep browsing places like little machine shop and Enco to look at the more "budget minded" offerings. I really want to play with the darn lathe and one of any size is better than nothing. But, I will be so disapointed if I can't make myself a 2.5D mag or something. 

And the used market is just terrible in Las Vegas, no one manufactures anything here! I keep trying to check the socal area but there are so many Craig's lists out there who knows which ones to watch. 

And to top it off I am already chewing my partner at works ear about mills and rotary tables and what can I do and blah blah 

I will keep browsing here and I dunno what I will wind up with but it sure has me excited 

I haven't checked all your links yet, but I know I have been impressed with your work in the past Will, thanks for replying to my questions.


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## VegasF6 (Apr 7, 2009)

Just for curiousities sake, will some one read the specs on these two machines and translate for a layman like me on the pros and cons?

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33274
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43681

The one thing I see is the green one is heavier, but normally cheaper. The red one is lighter, but normally more expensive. I was under the impressions lathes were priced like produce, by the pound. Is that wrong?


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## StrikerDown (Apr 7, 2009)

It looks like the 12 x 36 can cut 69 different threads (met & SAE) and the 12 x 37 only does 24 threads (met & SAE).

It is really hard to compare them, HF product discriptions are often somewhat lacking, but besides the threads these look pretty similar to each other.


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## darkzero (Apr 8, 2009)

VegasF6 said:


> Just for curiousities sake, will some one read the specs on these two machines and translate for a layman like me on the pros and cons?
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33274
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=43681
> ...


 
When getting into machines in that size class & price range, aren't there much better machines than those offered by HF?


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## StrikerDown (Apr 8, 2009)

darkzero said:


> When getting into machines in that size class & price range, aren't there much better machines than those offered by HF?


 
I think you can say that about most all of the machines that HF sells regardless of size... the question is what type work do you need it for and how much do you want to pay. Not everyone needs Hardinge quality, or price!


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## VegasF6 (Apr 8, 2009)

The one good thing about the Harbor Freight website is that you can download a .pdf file of the product manual. Of course, the manual's aren't that good in them selves, but I guess if you already know how to run a lathe they make sense to you? 

I am talking to a guy about a rather large side job. If it materializes I may have the funds for something like the one's I linked. Maybe. I do have 220 that could be jumped off of, I put a combination welder/air compressor circuit on the outside wall of the garage that I could jump into. #6 wire. Just have to punch into the back side of it and make sure the compressor doesn't kick on while I am cutting chips  (or breaking tools, whatever)

Thing is my stupid little garage is only 8' wide, so I am not sure were to put a monster like that. I mean, if I put it on the back wall I would only have 17" clearance around it. That probably isn't enough? So I suppose on one of the long walls. I could sell the motorcycle, but then I wouldn't have a motorcycle to build custom parts for.

As to the quality of the machine vs the price, that is the question. As I said, the used market here is pretty bad but I could possibly find something. If I used my pickup to go get one I am not sure how I would get it off. How high will an engine hoist lift? My truck is rather tall. 

When looking into the 7X-9X machines there is great support for them, and lot's of cool little gadgets on the cheap. With something this large, all the tooling etc is "real" hence even pricier. But, if the machine comes with a couple chucks, maybe a 6 inch, dead center, live center, tool post and holder even if not quick change, drill chuck, that is some of the expensive stuff. I could pick up a few cutting tools and a dial mic or two and some cutting oil and be cutting pretty quick, huh? Was hoping to find some scrap around the yard just to get a feel for it. Possibly even chuck up some emt conduit or black iron pipe just to get a feel?

I started this budget with around 700$ for the machine, now up around 1800, not sure I could go much higher than that. But, if those machines are just throwing away 1800 dollars cuz they are complete junk, then of course I wouldn't want to do that. 

Searching the web, the green machine, 33274 seems to be the more popular one. I couldn't find mention of the red one at all. Either it is a poor choice, or is just too new. Lot of gunsmiths playing with it. I guess for barrels. If I knew more about threading I would know if 24 threads vs 69 was worthwhile. I mean, I guess more is better, but that sounds like a lot of 'em! This is a link to just the metric thread pitch settings alone:
http://www.truetex.com/hf-enco-12x36-pitch.htm
As you can also see, it appears that the Enco 110-2075 is a very similar machine. I keep finding them mentioned in the same threads, along with the Grizzly g4003, which is similar but not the same. I think.

Well, I will be joining the yahoo group for these just to do some reading and of course keeping my eyes open on the used market. Throw out some names for me to watch for in 12x36 that might be found used and hopefully single phase power. Is that unlikely? I really hate to add a darn phase converter into the budget too.


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## VegasF6 (Apr 8, 2009)

Ok, so I start looking at alternatives. From the HF to the grizzly g4003, then the g4003g then I have to see what the PM is all about that makes it more money. I stumble upon this thread:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2762467&postcount=71
Well it looks like I am just following the same path as many others 
So Will, before I finish reading it, did you manage to pass a D body through the chuck? As of post 71 you didn't know yet. Darn, I have to go to my real job now.


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## wquiles (Apr 8, 2009)

VegasF6 said:


> So Will, before I finish reading it, did you manage to pass a D body through the chuck? As of post 71 you didn't know yet. Darn, I have to go to my real job now.



Yes, it does 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2764409&postcount=79

Will


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## precisionworks (Apr 8, 2009)

> If I used my pickup to go get one I am not sure how I would get it off.


That's easy. When you hand over the cash for the machine, there should be half a dozen other people drooling over it ... they'll gladly help load it into your truck, as you just saved them thousands of dollars.

On the way home, pick up a few of cases of really good bottled beer, and phone all your neighbors with an invitation to the party. It really helps if they are young & athletic, and you'll need at least six of them to show up. When they arrive, mention that you need help unloading the machine, and enjoy your party.

That's exactly how my South Bend was moved into the garage:nana:


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