# What is currently the best 18650 and charger setup?



## Orion (Oct 3, 2011)

What is currently the best 18650 and charger? Looking for a two cell setup that will charge both cells [in parallel, I'm guessing] with overcharge protection. 

Please reply with the brand and if you have a link to these, post here. Thank you.


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## casebomber (Oct 4, 2011)

I use a pila myself.


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## Orion (Oct 5, 2011)

I will look those up. Thanks for your input.


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## gearhead1972 (Oct 5, 2011)

I use AW 2900 mah batteries with the Pila


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## JacobJones (Oct 5, 2011)

+1 for AW 18650's and Pila IBC


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## Orion (Oct 5, 2011)

I was looking at the Lighthound webpage. I may buy from them. They are the AW brand.

When it comes to actual protected cells, would the cheaper Ultrafire WF-188 charger be okay, or is it still better to spend more for the Pila? $23 vs. $47


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## Gregozedobe (Oct 5, 2011)

I like Cottonpickers USB charger for Li-Ions (see thread over at CPFM). He has great customer service


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## thaugen (Oct 5, 2011)

I like my 4sevens multi charger, AW 2900 and Eagletac 2400, but I don't have anything to compare it with...


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## Leoht (Oct 5, 2011)

I have a Pila IBC and Redilast 3100 mah. I also have a Xtar wp6 that is pretty good and a lot of unprotected sanyo 18650's salvaged from laptop battery packs.


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## Anders (Oct 5, 2011)

Hello Orion

Maybe this thread would interest you.
"Pila IBC Charger Compendium"

Anders


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## casebomber (Oct 5, 2011)

Ya I do the pila and aw2900 and it seems to be the best of the best for me. The pila is so easy to use and compact and seemingly flawless, just make sure you couple it with your volt meter just to be safe. Hey what kinda 18650 lights are these for? I find it hard for myself to use anything but an 18650 neutral or warm these days!


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## Orion (Oct 5, 2011)

These cells will be for an XML light that uses two Lithium Ions or four CR123s. 

What about the following from 4Sevens:

AW's R18650 2200 mah

Cytac Dual Bay Fast Charger 139


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## 45/70 (Oct 6, 2011)

Hi Orion. There are really only two "consumer type" chargers, meaning "plug and play", that properly charge Li-Ion cells. Those two are the Pila IBC and the 4Sevens single-bay smart charger, which is only a single bay charger, so that's out. All the rest utilize cost cutting measures that result in chargers that range from very poor, to "almost right". My recommendation is to do it right the first time.

As for cells, AW, Redilast, and Callie's Kustoms are all good choices. Stay away from any of the xxxxxFire and most other oddball brands and you should be OK. If you didn't need protected cells because your running the 18650's in series, you could go with the major brands of unprotected cells like Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Sanyo and so on, but you need the added protection circuit that the previously mentioned brands add to their cells. Actually, many of AW's and I believe all of Redilast's and Callie's cells are, in fact, Panasonic cells.

You've been around here longer than I have, but just in case, if you're not familiar with the use of Li-Ion cells, it'd be a good idea to read over the Forum about the proper care and handling of Li-ion cells. Li-Ion cells are a bit different than other types. The stickies at the top of this Forum as well as Battery University are good places to learn more about Li-Ion, as well as other rechargeable cells.

*EDIT:* to add, that the Pila IBC is an independent two channel charger. Some cheap chargers are parallel chargers, and there's nothing wrong with that really, but their electronics and charging algorithm is usually heavily flawed.


Dave


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## samm (Oct 6, 2011)

Another vote for AW 18650's and Pila IBC


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## Sparky's Magic (Oct 6, 2011)

A big +1 for Pila. My dogs ran through the lead to the Pila and whiplashed it into a steel leg of an occasional table with enormous force and a resounding whack: It shouldn't have survived, it did (sans lid) and hasn't missed a beat. I'm impressed by just how sturdy the Pila is.:twothumbs


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## Orion (Oct 6, 2011)

I've been a member here for a long time, but haven't gotten into the higher power LEDs that seem to require these Lithium Ion rechargables. I'm a bit uncertain that I even want to get into using these, actually. It seems that they require more care and can cause serious damage/injury. 

I have the typical AA NiMh cells and charger [Eneloop]. When they require charging, I put them on the charger and forget them until the flashing light turns solid green. I'm guessing that charging these 18650 cells is a different matter. In short [or to sum up the many threads about this], can someone give the dangers that are commonly known?


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## Orion (Oct 6, 2011)

If I wanted this light anyway, and didn't want to get into 18650's, what is the downsize of just putting in 4 CR123's?


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## geisto (Oct 6, 2011)

If you're using the light often, then Li-Ion will cost less in the long run. If the light is in storage most of the time, then you can stick with CR123s and don't have to worry about any Li-Ion meltdowns.


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## casebomber (Oct 7, 2011)

I think most of the issues arise when used in multi cell lights as you must make sure that the voltage of both cells is always matching. I have read that some of the potentially most dangerous situations are with multi cell lithium primaries tho. The pila is straight forward; just pop the cell in and when the light turns from red to green it's set. Now of course you want to be checking your voltages before and after the charger to make sure you are staying within range, but it's totally not difficult or a hassle IMO.


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## Orion (Oct 7, 2011)

So, if I used the AWs and his single cell charger, made sure that the levels [voltage] of both are the same, they should drain about the same rate in the flashlight, and there should be little danger involved? Some clarification. When you said "multi cell lithium primaries", are you talking about 18650s or the CR123 lithiums [of which there would be 4 used]?

I want to have the best setup, but am a bit anxious about the potential hazards, . . . not wanting an exploation/fire [of course].


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## 45/70 (Oct 7, 2011)

Orion said:


> ......When you said "multi cell lithium primaries", are you talking about 18650s or the CR123



Non rechargeable Lithium primary cells (eg. CR123A) and rechargeable lithium-ion secondary cells (eg. 18650) are two totally different chemistry cells. Lithium primary cells contain lithium metal, which is a very unstable element. Lithium ion cells contain no metallic lithium, only chemical compounds that contain lithium ions. So generally, lithium primary cells are referred to as "lithium cells", and lithium ion cells are referred to as lithium ion, or "Li-Ion" cells. Many confuse the matter by calling them both "lithium cells", this really isn't correct for the above stated reasons. And yes, lithium primary cells are much more likely to cause problems when used in series, if the cells are not well matched.

As much of a supporter as I am of AW's Li-Ion cells, because they have been proven to me to be of very high quality, I would not recommend his 18650 charger. The two best "consumer type" cradle chargers available, are the Pila IBC, and the 4Sevens Single-Bay Smart Charger. These two chargers are the only two chargers out of the dozens available, that reasonably follow the Li-Ion cell manufacturers charging guidelines. Use any others at your own risk.



> I want to have the best setup, but am a bit anxious about the potential hazards, . . . not wanting an exploation/fire [of course].



The use of proper equipment goes a long way toward your goal here. If you run cells in series, use quality protected cells and assure that their initial state of charge/discharge characteristics are well matched. Occasionally check and compare the voltage of the cells at various points of discharge during use in the light, try not to discharge cells until the protection circuit trips (this is damaging to the cells), use a good charger, follow the rules closely, and you should have a good experience with the use of Li-Ion cells.

I've been using both protected and unprotected Li-Ion cells in lights for almost 7 years now and I haven't blown anything up yet. I followed the rules pretty much from the start, although stumbling upon CPF fairly early on, helped in this regard. The use of Li-Ion cells in lights, which is a use never intended for them, does carry some risk. If you adhere to the rules however, you greatly reduce the chances of anything bad happening. If you do choose this path, enjoy life in the fast lane! It's worth it, in my opinion.

Dave


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## casebomber (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks for the elaboration 45/70!!! Personally I have yet to do multi 18650, but im sure i could handle it, just haven't been "turned on" to the right light yet lol, mine are mostly single cell. I should start looking into a multi cell thrower. I will use some cr123 x2 in some of my lights here when it gets colder out for the first time this year; always keeping them as pairs (quads in Orion's case) as to avoid danger.

No 2 ways about it, seems that the pila is overall "the choice to make" IMO unless you wanted to get down on a hobby charger or something like that, too much for me atm.


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## Orion (Oct 8, 2011)

Maybe I will just stick with single cell lights. I would like an extremely bright light, but really it would only be to wow myself or my friends. Very little purpose in having something that lights up trees 200 yards away. Thanks for the valuable information here, guys.


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## cummins4x4 (Oct 15, 2011)

Great thread, I will be ordering the Pila to go with my AW2900's. I have a bunch of UFire 2600 protected that came with a noname "smart charger" that have been working fine so far. I am curious as to what kind of problems people have had with these batteys/chargers. Just performance issues or worse?


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## Bullyson (Nov 5, 2011)

Who has the best price on the Pila? I couldn't find them on eBay. I think I'll go with the Callie's Kustoms 18650.


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## cummins4x4 (Nov 5, 2011)

Bullyson said:


> Who has the best price on the Pila? I couldn't find them on eBay. I think I'll go with the Callie's Kustoms 18650.



I got my PILA and AW2900's from lighthound, they were the only place with stock.

Continued here


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