# I have to say.. (SF Incan Eulogy)



## Sailboat (Jun 5, 2011)

I'm really really sad that SF has begun dropping its incan line. Though they have regularly picked off models for quite some time, it is rumored the whole selection may soon be gone. Some of the most influential incandescent designs may soon be out of production..for good.

I am a SF fanboy, so everyone may not understand my attraction to Surefire lights, but only one line of lights has such a legacy, reputation, and innovative history. A 6P was my first Surefire. It's been a good long time since I bought my first. I still regularly wake up in the middle of the night with a sharp pain somewhere in my body, having fallen asleep fondling the light. 

The 6P and 9P started what may be the most versatile modular light standard, and introduced countless people to flashaholism. They have also served alongside untold numbers of soldiers, LEOs, and hardworking civilians for decades, essentially unchanged throughout its production life. The Z-series, thinner bodied combat lights with the same basic design as the P-series, offer a specialized ergonomic package that aids the user in utilizing Surefire's tactical light methods. Granting the user the same output and features as the P- and Z-series lights is the plastic G-series, an affordable option that offers a lighter weight, cost efficient plastic body with the unparalleled quality of its siblings.

The Centurions, though not super popular and perhaps lacking the praise given to the other lines, are hard anodized, ergonomically refined versions of the P-series, and bridge the gap between the entry level lights and the bigger, more powerful lights.


The M4 and M6 are simply outrageous factory hotrods. Certainly they aren't the most powerful hotwires one can acquire, but they are well engineered bombproof flamethrowers with real manufacturer support. The M2, M3 and M3T offer shock-isolation for their bulbs, and though they aren't as impressive as their bigger brothers, they still deserve the same fanfare.


The Executive Series are a departure from the brutal utilitarianism of the other incandescent lines. I view them as the friendly line of SF lights. Though hard anodized and constructed with the same precision, passion, and obsession with durability as the other lines, the Executive Series are entirely different. They are thin, smooth, and compact. They are unique as Surefire's foray into general purpose lights. They weren't purpose-designed to be used to rip out drywall (though you could if you wanted to), sear the retinas of an attacker (though you still are afforded the ability), or start fires at a quarter mile (you might need some serious modding to do this one). They were meant to be pocketable, EDC-able general purpose lights that offer the perfect beams, lifetime reliability, and pride of ownership found in the other incan lines. Designed with less output and more economical runtimes than other SF lights, they are friendlier, more practical offerings better suited to peeking behind a desk or suburban adventuring. The E2D offers these traits with the added versatility of a "persuasive" bezel, while maintaining the same every day friendliness of the Executive line. 

The Executive Series, though lacking the third-party options of the P, C, and G series, is still hugely "legoable" offering many different options for configuration.

Last, but most certainly not least..the most iconic, revered light ever made: the A2. I don't know if I can even say enough to do this light justice. It offers the best beam out of any flashlight money can buy. Nothing renders color as well as an A2. Nothing is easier on the eyes than the A2. It can't burn holes in newspaper, but if you're so inclined to try, you'll instead find yourself appreciating how _everything_ is beautiful when its in front of a powered-up A2. Many people talk about lights being pocket-flamethrowers or fusion reactors that fit in the palm of your hand. The A2 instead offers the very light from heaven to be cast from its digitally controlled incandescent lamp. And though it's painful to make the concession that cold, lifeless LEDs have their advantages, the A2 offers low-powered, long running LEDs to illuminate objects when it isn't entirely necessary to bless your optical nerves with the output of the bulb.

Yeah, maybe I'm a little crazy, and a little too obsessed with Surefire incans, but I think any true flashaholic is with me when I say it truly hurts to know that some day in the near future, we won't be able to jump on the SF site and drool at all the white-hot tungsten goodness. 

Sailboat


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## angelofwar (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: I have to say..*

Well spoken, Sail-boat, and I share in your sentiment. Hopefully Lumens Factory won't give up on incan replacement bulbs, once the SF stock starts to run low.


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## yliu (Jun 5, 2011)

They should never discontinue the M6, it's just a masterpiece!!!

Maybe they could put a warm white XM-L into it...

I never really understand why Surefire uses the outdated Luxeon LEDs. Using an XPG or XML they can get much more brightness without sacrificing more battery. 

I always wanted a Kroma, but the only thing holding me back is the 50 lumens.


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## Sailboat (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: I have to say..*



yliu said:


> They should never discontinue the M6, it's just a masterpiece!!!
> 
> Maybe they could put a warm white XM-L into it...
> 
> ...



I don't want this to turn into a discussion about why SF won't use bleeding edge LED technology.


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## oldways (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: I have to say..*

Great post!!!!! 

You have expressed my sentiments...and a lot of my experience ...with SureFire incandescent precisely.


Oh...and putting an led in the M6 is just not right.


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## DM51 (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: I have to say..*

Excellent post, Sailboat!


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## calipsoii (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: I have to say..*

I have no doubt that if there's one community on the internet that can keep Surefire's incandescent lineup out of the dust bin and in people's pockets, it's CPF.

That said, it doesn't hurt to be a little proactive and grab a few bulbs while they're still for sale. Maybe throw some money to Lumens Factory as well so they will hopefully continue to produce their replacements. And don't forget about Fivemega's excellent sockets - with any luck, Streamlight will continue to put out Strion bulbs. I have a tendency to pick one up whenever I pass by my local store, so with a dozen or so Strion bulbs kicking around I have no plans to retire my xenon A2 any time soon.


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## ASheep (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: I have to say..*

Congratulations on a wonderful post Sailboat, You have perfectly summed up the joy of using Surefire Incandescents. I am absolutely devastated that Surefire is ending their Incan lines for good. The Incan Aviator, as you said, was and still is the perfect illumination tool. It has none of those silly blinky modes, just a useful low flood, and that glorious regulated high beam. The fact that Surefire never went ahead with other regulated incans pains me every time I use my Aviator. 

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. No light has been so flattered as the 6P. There are hundreds of P60 hosts out there, most of which are but a pale imitation of the original, whether their walls are too thin or their dropins too flimsy, they cannot match the beauty and simplicity of the original. Hopefully companies like Solarforce and Lumens Factory will keep the flame of the 6P burning for many years to come. 

The M6 Guardian. The name says it all! I only recently acquired an M6, and I'm in love. It's sturdy, perfect to hold, and absurdly bright. Rechargeable mods are plentiful, even as simple as a Lumens Factory dropin. No words can do it justice, you have to use one to understand.

The E series lights, as you said, are the most friendly of Surefire's incans. They are the ones least likely to garner odd looks from passers-by, when clipped to your pocket. They have great stock beams, and Lego options are plentiful, even up to the stage of 350 bulb lumens from the IMR-E2, or fivemega's E2 Fire, which can really take the brightness up a notch. 

I say we raise a glass to this dying breed of light, the best tribute we can give is to continue using them at every opportunity. You are not alone in your obsession with burning tungsten Sailboat. On the day Surefire removes their Incans for good, we will light the sky with them, and remember.

Cheers,
Alex


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## Sailboat (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: I have to say..*

Thanks guys! 

It's too bad the current surge of high-quality flashlights on the market now was contingent largely on the success and innovations of Surefire in combination with the crop of high powered LEDs being produced. I feel there would be a lot more advances in regulated incans that could have potentially made the A2 seem archaic had more innovative brands jumped in the game 10 years ago.


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## Echo63 (Jun 5, 2011)

*Re: I have to say..*



oldways said:


> Oh...and putting an led in the M6 is just not right.


I agree entirely.
I put a LF P7 head on mine, put batteries in, and didn't like the cold white light or the balance of it, within a minute it was wearing a millennium Turbohead and torturing a little coil of tungsten again

As much as I like the LF P7 head, the Surefire Incans, especially the M3, M4, M6 just look nice with their Incan heads, and look right with a nice warm beam coming out of them

I do intend swapping the P7 in my Lumensfactory head for a neutral or warm LED, but it won't be the same.
I do also intend getting a P90 or two, and running my old school 6P with 2x rechargeables (one of the biggest problems I used to have with the surefire Incans was the lack of good rechargeable solutions, now we there is millions of options, and the lights are going the way of the dodo

The A2 shouldn't be discontinued, it's one of those lights no one gets until they own one.
Low level LEDs that last ages on a set of cells, idiot proof switching (duh, press for light, umm, press for more light, ok mongo gets it) and a really nice beam that reaches out a surprising way, mine is bright enough to look at the satellite dishes on the roof of the 3 story office building I work in, try doing that with a 50 lumen LED !

I just hope Lumensfactory keeps making bulbs, all of my M series surefire run their bulbs, and i have not had a problem yet, I might start stocking up though


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## richpalm (Jun 6, 2011)

Sailboat said:


> Yeah, maybe I'm a little crazy, and a little too obsessed with Surefire incans, but I think any true flashaholic is with me when I say it truly hurts to know that some day in the near future, we won't be able to jump on the SF site and drool at all the white-hot tungsten goodness.
> 
> Sailboat



Not me... overpriced now, can't afford 'em, can't use the superior 18650, and once I went with modern LED's that was it for incans, and I had every Surefire that they sold when I was still working. At the time (2004) I had everything from the Z2 to the M6 and I loved them at the time. Now my neutral triple XP-G's kick the incans from here to ??? with no sickly yellow/orange color, expensive primaries, or bulbs.

Rich


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## calipsoii (Jun 6, 2011)

richpalm said:


> Not me... overpriced now, can't afford 'em, can't use the superior 18650, and once I went with modern LED's that was it for incans, and I had every Surefire that they sold when I was still working. At the time (2004) I had everything from the Z2 to the M6 and I loved them at the time. Now my neutral triple XP-G's kick the incans from here to ??? with no sickly yellow/orange color, expensive primaries, or bulbs.
> 
> Rich


 
LOL Rich, that didn't take long. Two sides to every argument, I suppose.

I will say this: I own a C2 bored for 18650 running a Kerberos Quad with Nichia 119 emitters (the only one in existence). 93 CRI @ ~3400k. Something like 600lm OTF. Despite that, the light that leaves the house in my pocket every day is my A2. It runs beautiful warm white secondary LED's. It has a regulated incan that's pure white until the batteries are almost drained. It runs on 2xRCR123's. With FiveMega's Strion Kit, bulbs cost $9 and I can buy them in bulk for less (and I do).

I would challenge your triple with my A2 any day of the week.


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## Xacto (Jun 6, 2011)

Well chosen words!
Although the first Surefire I got was a 6PL and I honestly prefer the LED for the runtime alone, I do keep a G2 incan at hand. But, what hit me most regarding the slow death of the incan is the following demise of the Z44 head. The reason why I became a Surefire fanboy was and still is the 6P and Z2 line of lights and its full Lego-ability (which includes Dropins for which the Z44 is of utmost importance). Still no KX4 head in my collection since I do not like its "glued shut" concept. I spent a good amount of money on Surefire lights BECAUSE I know I can swap out any defective part and replace it, even if we were in some post-apocalyptic world and all I got would be my SF collection.

But, with the introduction of the 6PX and the G2PX lights, which I consider another attempt to decline the interest in the original 6P, another nail for the incans coffin was introduced. And since the need to replace broken incan bulbs is the reason the Z44 (still) exists, I too am not very happy with the death of the incan.

Honestly - my only hope is that Surefire will never stop producing the 6P (even when it comes with a KX4 head) in its current design out of respect for the place it has in the companies history. And before I bcame a flashaholic - when I heard or read "Surefire" a 6P came suddenly to my mind.

Cheers
Thorsten


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## Monocrom (Jun 6, 2011)

Hopefully someone at SureFire is reading this, and realizing that their inca. lights are still popular.


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## seale_navy (Jun 6, 2011)

where did u guys get the rumour that surefire is gonna end their incandescent line? I think it still plays a vital part for special forces to use it as an infrared light (with filter of course).

I think surefire is just introducing more powerful leds for their current incan line because that is what every other manufacturer is doing. They dont want to get left behind.

The design for this new surefire models is the almost the same with the incan line. WHy would surefire wanna dispose a significant source of income when there is no need for R&D for the incan line? To me I think its a free source of income for surefire.


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## calipsoii (Jun 6, 2011)

seale_navy said:


> where did u guys get the rumour that surefire is gonna end their incandescent line?


 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-flashlights&p=3633260&viewfull=1#post3633260

A2's not on there because it was cancelled a while ago and has already been pulled from the website.


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## seale_navy (Jun 6, 2011)

oh wow... this is serious. thanks for the link. thank god they intend to keep the yellow G2 as that is the only incan I have from surefire


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## Sailboat (Jun 6, 2011)

seale_navy said:


> oh wow... this is serious. thanks for the link. thank god they intend to keep the yellow G2 as that is the only incan I have from surefire



Buy an A2!


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## Chrontius (Jun 6, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> Hopefully someone at SureFire is reading this, and realizing that their inca. lights are still popular.


 
Hopefully someone at Surefire is *looking at their balance sheets*, and realizing their incandescent lights are still popular. :nana:

Funny, my M60 seemed awful bright new, but it's being overshadowed by my cheap XML model (at about five times the wattage). My Aviator/Strion host can go toe to toe with it, somehow.


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## lasermax (Jun 7, 2011)

Iam with ya brother I still beleave in sunshine of incans every time I look at my lights some of them seems to be missing a bulb but I forget there leds so I carry my m4 for part time sunshine wow


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## Monocrom (Jun 7, 2011)

Chrontius said:


> Hopefully someone at Surefire is *looking at their balance sheets*, and realizing their incandescent lights are still popular. :nana:


 
Good idea. When in doubt, speak the language of money to any company.

And I agree, buy an A2!!

(I've got mine.)


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> I agree, buy an A2!!
> 
> (I've got mine.)




*+1* Definitely! :thumbsup:



I'd have 2 if it wasn't for some "low life" in the shipping/postal service :scowl:


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## shomie911 (Jun 7, 2011)

I share the sentiment about the A2. It was never meant to be the brightest flashlight or the longest running, yet the balance it strikes with clean, regulated-white output and secondary LEDs continues to impress despite its age.

I sold my four-sided A2 a long time ago, but just picked up an A2-YG round body recently because no matter what high-powered bleeding edge flashlight I bought it never quite measured up to the gold-standard of the A2, atleast in my eyes.

While it's sad that the A2 has been discontined, atleast those of us who have A2's (and love them) can sit back and laugh as technology continues to progress and the bleeding-edge 30,000 lumen LED pocket search lights that come out still can't touch the reliability, ergonomics, and practical output that makes our favorite flashlight such a joy to use. 

I recently purchased another light that seems to be nearing its end in the Surefire lineup, the Kroma (I got the Milspec variant). It follows the same practicality and functionality philosophy that makes me love the A2. It's powered by an ancient Lux III LED, yet somehow manages to ever-so-slightly beat the A2 in throw. The pure white tint is impressive and makes me realize just how purple/blue/green my other LED flashlights look. I've noticed that most LED flashlights have a tendency to make things look flat, but the Kroma-Milspec, just like the A2, displays a wonderfully deep depth of field. 

Surefire flashlights have stood the test of time, and while the classics may appear to be obsolete based upon spec-sheets, real world use indicates they're just as great as they always were.


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## angelofwar (Jun 8, 2011)

I hear ya, Shomie...I hear a lot of people dissing the Kroma's "measly" 50 lumens. Yet they've never used a Kroma for the most part...I can do 99% of what I need a flashlight for with my Kroma...and short of police/SAR/EMS/Military, nobody needs more (yeah it's fun to have), but most of us don't NEED more than that. So, yeah, when I deploy, I could easily take my Kroma's with me and be set. The MIL-SPEC is my fave of the two, but they're still both good lights, and the Kroma (Regular) will be missed...


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## vestureofblood (Jun 8, 2011)

For me this thread extends beyond Surefire. That faint sadness coupled with fond memories transcends the brand name and encompasses incan flashlights all together. Some of the greatest flashaholic moments of my life ( most of the first ones) came from firing up a new superbulb type creation. 

Its sad for me to think that we are standing on the crest where incan lights are just a memory.


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## run4jc (Jun 8, 2011)

SailBoat - great post! Sadly, I am late to the party. Carrot's "Incandescent Tribute Challenge" brought me to the party, and I was hooked. Purchased 3 A2s, 2 E2Es, 2 E1Es, a C2, and a Fivemega E2 Fire (I know, not Surefire, but I had to throw that one in.). I've lost count of how many backup P60s, P90s, MN01s, MN02s, and MN03s - as well as Lumens Factory equivalents - I've purchased. Looking for a place to store them all!

After joining CPF a little over 2 years ago, the quest for the 'ultimate' quickly surged from my Olight to a couple of LED Surefires, to McGizmos, to Mac's Customs, to Cool Fall, to HDS, Oveready - and on and on - yet never giving any love to the 'old' incandescent, while slowly coming to appreciate the 'warm' or 'neutral' tinted LEDs - to the point that the cool tints began to bother me. All the while, that trusty old 6P was in the kitchen drawer with a Nailbender SST50 installed, and the P60 tucked away in a box.

Then the Incan challenge - looked like fun, so I dusted off the P60 and :huh: - "Where has this beauty been all this time??" I have a bad habit of going overboard, and that delight with the 6P P60 turned into a buying spree. And I love them all - each morning on the early dog walks, I rotate to a different Surefire host....at night, I have an E1E with a F04 diffuser on it in my pocket. It's hard for me to look at LED beams unless they are warm or neutral.

Do you think that Surefire has felt any of the growing pressure to eliminate incandescent lights? I would not think of derailing this great thread with an 'green' debate, but lest we forget, 2012 is the year the incan bulb will go away. Maybe Surefire sees that as a signal...who knows. I, and I suspect many of you, embrace the beloved old incans and have stocked up on Surefire (and will stock up on incan light bulbs, too.)

Again, great, well written, thoughtful post! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## sween1911 (Jun 9, 2011)

Very good thread. It's amazing to look back at the old Surefire catalogs where incan was king and the LED heads were just being introduced. Some of the incan product descriptions mention ".... can also be fitted with a long running LED head" as if runtime were the only upside to LED technology and for good output, you still needed the incan.


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## kelmo (Jun 9, 2011)

I got this from the SF website;

"If you require technical support for a discontinued model, please call Customer Service at (800) 828-8809 or email [email protected]."

I wonder if they will give you store credit if they run out of lamps or something breaks?


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## sween1911 (Jun 9, 2011)

They have those LED towers and such for the E-series, can someone make one just a little longer for the A2? 

I know we're cherishing the incans, but t'would be a shame to leave the A2 in obscurity if we can't get the lamps.


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## Monocrom (Jun 9, 2011)

sween1911 said:


> They have those LED towers and such for the E-series, can someone make one just a little longer for the A2?
> 
> I know we're cherishing the incans, but t'would be a shame to leave the A2 in obscurity if we can't get the lamps.


 
A better solution is to get FiveMega's Strion kit for the A2. Unlike SureFire, Streamlight is in no hurry to get rid of their tried & true inca. models. Then just stock up on Strion bulbs. I have a couple of extra SF A2 lamps. But I'll be buying the kit and several Strion bulbs myself.


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## tab665 (Jun 9, 2011)

so i take it that some of you guys arent in a hurry to get the new M6LT?


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## oldways (Jun 9, 2011)

That is correct.


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## sween1911 (Jun 9, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> A better solution is to get FiveMega's Strion kit for the A2. Unlike SureFire, Streamlight is in no hurry to get rid of their tried & true inca. models. Then just stock up on Strion bulbs. I have a couple of extra SF A2 lamps. But I'll be buying the kit and several Strion bulbs myself.


 
Roger that. I gotta get my hands on one of those!


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## ampdude (Jun 9, 2011)

There are a LOT of people who still love their small incans like the E2e, it would be a big mistake if they discontinued those models. And classics like the 6P and G2.


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## run4jc (Jun 9, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> A better solution is to get FiveMega's Strion kit for the A2. Unlike SureFire, Streamlight is in no hurry to get rid of their tried & true inca. models. Then just stock up on Strion bulbs. I have a couple of extra SF A2 lamps. But I'll be buying the kit and several Strion bulbs myself.


 
+1. Just got one plus one of calipsoii's led rings. Just awesome and hopefully these bulbs will be around for a while!!


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## scout24 (Jun 9, 2011)

I have to admit, sadly, that I "bypassed" incans when I got here in favor of Ti and LED's. Multiple levels and runtime were great plusses for me, and I incorrectly thought primary batteries, expensive bulbs with short lives, and single level outputs were all there was to look forward to in the incan world. Yes, I drooled over M6 beamshots, and loved the tint, but... Carrot's challenge thread, seemingly on the eve of destruction for incans, brought me in. I have a handful of irreplacable (to me) LED lights, but was introduced to E1E's, E2E's, A2's, onion rings, FM bulb holders, cheap bulbs, RCR combinations, and then, today, (Thanks, Drywolf!) AW's 3 stage softstart switch. OMG!!! Multi level for my C2??? You've got to be kidding! With the availability of RCR combos, multiple levels, and inexpensive bulbs, I have a newfound appreciation for these awesome lights. FM's E2 fire- 2x18350 with 350 OTF lumens on high, with two very usable lower levels will be in my pocket without backup tomorrow... Maybe the C2/ P60/ softstart... Time to stock up on the needed bulbs and maybe a few more hosts. Carrot, thanks for the push, my Paypal account does not like you very much...  Looking forward to playing with KT2/ WA1185/ 3x18650 in the morning. I was lighting things up at 40 yards in daylight this afternoon, so this should be fun. A sad day if the availability of these lights and components becomes a thing of the past.


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## Sailboat (Jun 9, 2011)

A bad day for incan fanatics..pulled off the Surefire site, the following LER (Light emitting resistor) lights have been discontinued.


M6, M4, G3, E2D, E2E, 6P, M2, C3, Z2, C2, G2Z


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## kelmo (Jun 9, 2011)

Indeed it is a sad day...


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## Monocrom (Jun 10, 2011)

Sailboat said:


> A bad day for incan fanatics..pulled off the Surefire site, the following LER (Light emitting resistor) lights have been discontinued.
> 
> 
> M6, M4, G3, E2D, E2E, 6P, M2, C3, Z2, C2, G2Z


 
I always wondered what happened to the "genius" executive over at Coca-Cola who introduced New Coke all those years ago . . . Apparently he got hired over at SureFire. :ironic:


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## stevie-ca (Jun 10, 2011)

FYI

Midway USA just put on sale a few models


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## sween1911 (Jun 10, 2011)

Just talked to my best friend. He lives in Jersey City and was telling me about people parking in his driveway. He said, "So I go in my bag and I keep a very powerful flashlight in there, one that runs on camera batteries, one that my best friend gave me." I was like "Hey! That was me!"  I gave him a G2 about 6 years ago!!! and he proceded to tell me how he used the light to adjust the attitude of the person trying to pull into his driveway and convince them to park somewhere else. Ah, gave me a warm fuzzy feeling and fond memories and the realization that, new technology or not, there are still a LOT of old school incan SF users out there. People who may not even be into lights that much, but depend on them to do the job. My dad carried the G2 (also incan) I got him for years on a belt pouch. After he banged it around a few times, I got him a Z32 shock bezel for it. I now have it in the pouch I got for him in my closet in my zombie/apocalypse/bug-out-bag.


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## tab665 (Jun 11, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSDxVlA3xnA just found this video while trying to find the candela rating of the M6 to compare to the new led model. start watching at about the 4:30-40 mark. youll love it... or maybe not.
by the way, i never found the candela rating of the M6, do any of you guys happen to know? i think the M6LT is rated at 31,000, which is much lower than the ANSI measurments of newer fenix lights with XM-L's (tk41 and tk60)

edit: after rereading i think my post sounded anti-surefire, but i've just been trying to study up as i have been thinking about getting a M6LT, but not if it wont out throw the incan model or at least match the competition.


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## ampdude (Jun 11, 2011)

Sailboat said:


> A bad day for incan fanatics..pulled off the Surefire site, the following LER (Light emitting resistor) lights have been discontinued.
> 
> 
> M6, M4, G3, E2D, E2E, 6P, M2, C3, Z2, C2, G2Z


 
I saw this yesterday as well. This is a crazy move by Surefire!! :thumbsdow

I can't believe even the E2e and 6P


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## Double_A (Jun 11, 2011)

Sad. I was never happier in my life with my flashlight collection when I got my 6P some 20 years ago now. I was a member of Surefire's forum (Yes, Surefire had their own forum, ask Size15). I just had to have that 6P. It blew out of the water my 4D Maglight with a magnum star lamp.

Back then I used lights everyday in the course of my work as a Security Specialist making 60k/yr back in 1990, I could afford aquiring a whole range of Surefires from the E1e to the M6, even though batteries were more expensive than they are now. I once totalled up my collection and I had $1600 worth of Surefires.

The E2e was my "I've died and gone to heaven" light as I could EDC it better than a 6P or 9P. A couple years after I got mine, I wrote a PO and issued my whole staff, Factory & Headquarters Surefire's E2e lights.

Then they came, the LED's. My gawd they were awful, cat pee green someone called their tint. Luxeon Lottery was another phrase. I was lucky my KL1 head had a violet tint to it, then my KL4 head had a beautiful even tint and it even worked well on my E1e body. 

I knew this day was coming. Laser Products Surefire Incandescent lights were fabulous in their day. But like me, they are getting old in the tooth. Frankly I see no reason at this point to go back.


Proud owner of SF E1e, E2e x2, E2W, 6P, 9P, C2, C3 x2, M3, M6 plus tons of accessories


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## zs&tas (Jun 13, 2011)

I am gutted. I have just got the incan bug, i love the colour and feel. Just as i get my first C2 there gone ? I dont have the money to buy some more and stock up :-(
and gettin rid of the 6p seems stupid, you should never forget what started it all.
I think the next couple of birthdays will be spent looking at E B ay ..........


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## Monocrom (Jun 13, 2011)

The lamps will still be available for some time. You can pick up a nice used example of the C2 by making a WTB topic when you have a bit more money in the near future. I plan on buying a few extra lamps, and converting a few of my inca. SF lights to LED. Keep a few stock. This will give me a few more options, and a few extra lamps. I have three spare A2 lamps. Will soon buy FiveMega's Strion kit for it. Then stock up on Strion bulbs instead of more extra A2 lamps. The math is obvious ($27 for one SF A2 lamp, or $7 for one Strion bulb.)

Point is, there are ways for dealing with SureFire's "brilliant" decision to scrap the lights that put them on the map.


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## Solscud007 (Jun 13, 2011)

In celebration of the king of SF incan handhelds, I plan to take this design I made and make it a shirt haha.


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## Size15's (Jun 13, 2011)

Millennium has TWO "N"s !! (it's laser-etched into the Millennium Series bodies in most cases).
It'll be worth checking whether SureFire use the plural "Operations". I have a feeling they do but can't check it at the moment.


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## Solscud007 (Jun 13, 2011)

Whoops haha thanks for pointing out my mistake.


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## Size15's (Jun 13, 2011)

Solscud007 said:


> Whoops haha thanks for pointing out my mistake.


Better to let you know now then after you've had the t-shirt printed...

I think the background line-art looks a bit messy where the battery carrier and exterior overlap. Have you considered not having that exterior image? - I think the M6's battery carrier makes for a far more interesting 'exploded' diagram.


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## Solscud007 (Jun 13, 2011)

It does over lap but the main focus is of the M6 colored dissected view.

I was emulating a tshirt design I had made.






which is based off my UK Debenham's Haynes shirt.


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## DM51 (Jun 13, 2011)

Size15's said:


> I think the background line-art looks a bit messy


I agree with _*Size[binary]1111's*_. 

The cutaway diagram looks great - maybe just have that with the red SF logo above it. You don't even really need the "Millennium Special Edition" explanatory text below.


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## Solscud007 (Jun 13, 2011)

Thanks I will take that into consideration. sorry for sidetracking the thread. I didnt mean to make this a discussion about my t-shirt. More of a celebration of the M6 and other SF incans.


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## Size15's (Jun 13, 2011)

Think of it like this... If not now then when is a good time to discuss t-shirts? :nana:

So what other things are people doing apart from stocking up?
Perhaps a movie-marathon [of movies] featuring the best show-off scenes for SureFire incandescents like the M6?


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## Solscud007 (Jun 13, 2011)

The M6 was quite prominent in Journey to the Center of the earth.


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## Monocrom (Jun 13, 2011)

Solscud007 said:


> Thanks I will take that into consideration. sorry for sidetracking the thread. I didnt mean to make this a discussion about my t-shirt. More of a celebration of the M6 and other SF incans.


 
Let us know if SureFire sends you a Cease & Desist letter.


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## nfetterly (Jun 13, 2011)

I've got almost 20 FM/CL 1794 bulbs for my 6P with FM holder, ~10 WA1185 bulb with the other FM holder, need to stock up on strion bulbs though.

I'm in somewhat similar boat to run4jc - warm or neutral LEDs are good to okay.


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## Size15's (Jun 13, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> Let us know if SureFire sends you a Cease & Desist letter.


 
I don't know but I would've thought that if you only do this for yourself, and do not gift or sell the t-shirt to anyone else then you'll not be causing SureFire any bother :shrug:


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## Solscud007 (Jun 13, 2011)

Exactly. It is for me only.


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## scout24 (Jun 13, 2011)

Nick- Cool! I love those exploded view designs... very much reminds me of mechanical drawing class WAY back in middle school. (Drafting table, paper, and a PENCIL of all things...) Good to see that a bit of thread drift does not detract, and actually adds on occasion...  +1 to those above singing the praises of the Strion bulb- not only is it more economical to purchase, but the beam is very nice. E2E and Aviator set up that way right now (Thanks, FM!) and I'll be stocking up on a few more. Thanks to Dan, I've got P60's covered, and some Carly's on the way. Nick- Big pile of stuff coming to breakfast in the morning.


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## Monocrom (Jun 14, 2011)

Solscud007 said:


> Exactly. It is for me only.


 
Darn it. I'd love to buy one of those.


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## ampdude (Jun 14, 2011)

Thinking about it, I guess this isn't any dumber than any other dumb sh-t Surefire has done in the past. Like when they discontinued the colored LED lights, and then the L1 altogether. And the L2.. or the strange new logo, and removing the knurling from their lights.


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## ElectronGuru (Jun 15, 2011)

ampdude said:


> and removing the knurling from their lights.


 
Yeah but all those new lights showing up in police departments lack knurling - and I'm certain it's because of how they look!


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## Size15's (Jun 15, 2011)

The body of SureFire's proposed new rechargeable dutylight family is knurled...


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## Captain Spaulding (Jun 15, 2011)

Sailboat said:


> .....It's been a good long time since I bought my first. I still regularly wake up in the middle of the night with a sharp pain somewhere in my body, having fallen asleep fondling the light.
> 
> Sailboat



Great post Sailboat!

lol, glad to hear Im not the only one falling asleep fondling surefires. Im renting a small room at the moment so I spend time laying on the bed watching TV and falling asleep ususally with no less than 3 SFs in bed with me. :sleepy: 

I have been an LED guy since my hobby started but it was reading all of the threads here lately about how incands are going to be discontinued that catapulted me into a new obsession. The last couple weeks I have been reading and researching just like when I first found this place and ended up lego-ing together some pretty sweet Surefire Incandescent setups. My LED obsession was leading me into warm-only emitters and most likely without this newsflash regarding the discontinuation, I would not have jumped into incands and would be missing out on an awesome "chapter" in this flashlight hobby/addiction. 

Im sad to see them go, but in a round-about sort of way, I probably would not have gotten to experience them if their hadnt been all of these "discontinuation" threads.

I absolutely LOVE my new C2 w/KT2 Turbohead w/IMRM3T and P91/M2/Z2 setups! I just need an M6. :sigh:


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## run4jc (Jun 16, 2011)

Captain Spaulding said:


> Great post Sailboat!
> 
> I have been an LED guy since my hobby started but it was reading all of the threads here lately about how incands are going to be discontinued that catapulted me into a new obsession. The last couple weeks I have been reading and researching just like when I first found this place and ended up lego-ing together some pretty sweet Surefire Incandescent setups. My LED obsession was leading me into warm-only emitters and most likely without this newsflash regarding the discontinuation, I would not have jumped into incands and would be missing out on an awesome "chapter" in this flashlight hobby/addiction.
> 
> ...



+1+1+1 What the Captain said....:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## ASheep (Jun 16, 2011)

Captain Spaulding said:


> I just need an M6. :sigh:


 
Capt'n, get an M6 before the prices go up. You won't regret it. I used mine as a bike light on my 20 minute commute for the first time tonight, absolutely amazing! (I'm still in the "WOW I finally have an M6" phase)

As cool as I think the new models in Surefire's 2011 catalogue are, I don't think they'll regain the legendary status of lights like the E2, 6P and M6. 

Cheers,
Alex


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## Solscud007 (Jun 16, 2011)

Well dont feel too bad. The M6 will still be around. As the M6LT. It might take people like FM or another third party to make aftermarket downgrades for SF's new LED only product lines haha


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## scout24 (Jun 16, 2011)

Even as a relative noob to the goodness that is Surefire, the M6 strikes me as what was the pinnacle of their "personal sized" lights when it came out. A "See what we can do" incan monster from a major manufacturer. Even then, it was able to be run at different outputs,and was fully supported by Surefire with different bulbs. I briefly owned an M6 with all the goodies, Bi-pin adapter, two RCR cradles, and could pick and choose runtime or brightness to suit my needs. Having read some of the plethora of M6 threads and shootouts, it seems like it was, and remains, the pinnacle of OEM lighting with unbelievable modder/ aftermarket support. I looked at the new M6 in the sweet Surefire catalog that Solscud was kind enough to pick up for me, and I'm just underwhelmed. Single level, output behind a whole bunch of current offerings, no dropin available to switch to a brighter or dimmer LED a'la the old bulb based M6 (I think that would go a long way towards increasing the appeal of the new light.) if they didn't want to go to a multi-level UI. I'm looking forward to seeing some reviews here. I apologize in advance if this offends any of the old school faithful, just my $.02...


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## Solscud007 (Jun 16, 2011)

I wonder what would happen if you put the M3LT head onto the M6 body?


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## angelofwar (Jun 16, 2011)

Solscud007 said:


> I wonder what would happen if you put the M3LT head onto the M6 body?


 
70 lumens for ?? Hours. It is safe, as the KX9 was designed as a relacent led head for the M3/4/ and 6. Not sure of the runtime though,.. And I'm not about to waste 6 batteries to find out.


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## Solscud007 (Jun 16, 2011)

Put 6 RCR123 in it!!! yeah!!!! overdrive that LED haha


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## angelofwar (Jun 17, 2011)

Solscud007 said:


> Put 6 RCR123 in it!!! yeah!!!! overdrive that LED haha


 
I have a spacer actually, and am half tempted to try it on 2 rcr 123's...


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## Monocrom (Jun 17, 2011)

Solscud007 said:


> I wonder what would happen if you put the M3LT head onto the M6 body?


 
Yup. All you'd get is single output low-mode only from the M3LT head on the M6 body. turbo BB and I got together . . . Wow, it's been a year now. He brought his M3LT and I brought my M6. In terms of runtime with a very useful level of light, nothing will beat that combo.


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## Solscud007 (Jun 17, 2011)

How did it compare to MN15 with 2x18650s?


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## Monocrom (Jun 17, 2011)

Sorry, back then I didn't have a rechargeable set-up for my M6. 

I do now! . . . But it's a couple of 3x17670 carriers from mdocod.

I was rocking the MN21 with 6 fresh primaries.


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## Captain Spaulding (Jun 17, 2011)

ASheep said:


> Capt'n, get an M6 before the prices go up. You won't regret it. I used mine as a bike light on my 20 minute commute for the first time tonight, absolutely amazing! (I'm still in the "WOW I finally have an M6" phase)
> Cheers,
> Alex


 
Man, I would love to but they are just so expensive. There is no way I could buy a new one... I could post a WTB and look for a badly beaten one in my price range I suppose!

BTW do people really burn 6 cells an hour in those? (or 20min w/500 lamp) Dizamn! 

I would have to convert it to run guilt free as burning 2 primaries an hour almost gives me a panic attack!


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## Size15's (Jun 17, 2011)

On occasion I've run several sets of SF123As through a handful of M6 and M4 in a night. Usually its an event or activity where the beams make it worth it. Some situations aren't conducive to rechargeables in my experience.


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## Solscud007 (Jun 17, 2011)

Captain Spaulding said:


> Man, I would love to but they are just so expensive. There is no way I could buy a new one... I could post a WTB and look for a badly beaten one in my price range I suppose!
> 
> BTW do people really burn 6 cells an hour in those? (or 20min w/500 lamp) Dizamn!
> 
> I would have to convert it to run guilt free as burning 2 primaries an hour almost gives me a panic attack!



To be honest, I have only gone thru 1.5 sets of batteries with my M6. I dont use it that much. Until I got the FM 2x18650 battery adapter. Then I could careless how long I use it.

And on that note. I got my t-shirt!!!


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## Monocrom (Jun 17, 2011)

That's a good-looking shirt.


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## scout24 (Jun 17, 2011)

SWEET, Nick!


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## ASheep (Jun 17, 2011)

Captain Spaulding said:


> Man, I would love to but they are just so expensive. There is no way I could buy a new one... I could post a WTB and look for a badly beaten one in my price range I suppose!
> 
> BTW do people really burn 6 cells an hour in those? (or 20min w/500 lamp) Dizamn!
> 
> I would have to convert it to run guilt free as burning 2 primaries an hour almost gives me a panic attack!


 
I got mine off CPFMP for around $250 with Two bulbs, so if you look around you can find one at a reasonable price. 
I don't burn primaries in mine, they're just far too expensive for my tastes. I keep a set of primaries with an MN20 or MN15 in my bag when I have the M6, just in case. 
I've found a configuration where only 4 IMR cells will fit, in 2s2p, giving ~8 volts, which will run the stock MN20 bulb (until I get a 2x18650 holder).
My main bulb is the Lumens Factory HO-M6R. Absolutely amazing. It is my favourite light, and my only regret is that I didn't get one earlier!

Cheers,
Alex

PS: Awesome shirt Solscud007!


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## run4jc (Jun 17, 2011)

You guys keep it up and I'm gonna have to have one - just 'cause.....
:devil:


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## scout24 (Jun 17, 2011)

Dan-  :wave: :devil:


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## Solscud007 (Jun 17, 2011)

scout24 said:


> Dan-  :wave: :devil:


 

I concur with Greg haha



ASheep said:


> I got mine off CPFMP for around $250 with Two bulbs, so if you look around you can find one at a reasonable price.
> I don't burn primaries in mine, they're just far too expensive for my tastes. I keep a set of primaries with an MN20 or MN15 in my bag when I have the M6, just in case.
> I've found a configuration where only 4 IMR cells will fit, in 2s2p, giving ~8 volts, which will run the stock MN20 bulb (until I get a 2x18650 holder).
> My main bulb is the Lumens Factory HO-M6R. Absolutely amazing. It is my favourite light, and my only regret is that I didn't get one earlier!
> ...


 

Thanks ASheep. I feel dumb, cause I havent really played with my M6. Im running the 2x18650 battery holder and MN15 bulb. For the Low Output long runtime configuration. But I can run the MN20 as well on 2x 18650? What does that get me? More light? less runtime?


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## ASheep (Jun 17, 2011)

Solscud007 said:


> = Im running the 2x18650 battery holder and MN15 bulb. For the Low Output long runtime configuration. But I can run the MN20 as well on 2x 18650? What does that get me? More light? less runtime?


 
The MN20 with 2x18650 will give you about double the brightness and half the runtime of the MN15. I love the MN15 because it runs forever, but the MN20 just blows it away as far as throw is concerned. 

This thread by DM51 really pushed me over the edge on buying an M6. It goes over all the rechargeable options for the M6 with beamshots. 

I only got my M6 recently, but I love it dearly, and wouldn't give it up for anything!

Cheers,
Alex


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## Captain Spaulding (Jun 17, 2011)

ASheep said:


> This thread by DM51 really pushed me over the edge on buying an M6. It goes over all the rechargeable options for the M6 with beamshots.
> 
> Cheers,
> Alex



Oh my! Just the first two pics in that thread have me sold. If I can find one for <$250 .....


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## Solscud007 (Jun 17, 2011)

Dont worry. You can. I got mine on clearance from Cabela's for $250. Plus it pops up in the marketplace every now and again.


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## Cypher_Aod (Jun 18, 2011)

All the talk of the incandescent godliness that is the A2 has persuaded me to order one of the Clearance A2-HA-YG's from LA.P.G at a very reasonable price _(less for nib than used lights on the MP! madness!)_

This one might take a while to arrive though... because retailers can't ship SF's out of the US, i've had it sent to a friend of my dad's in Atlanta who'll hold on to it until he visits the UK or my dad visits Atlanta, might be more than a month 

Still, NIB A2 in Atlanta beats no A2 at all


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## Solscud007 (Jun 19, 2011)

Sounds like you got it figured out!!! haha.


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## ZMZ67 (Jun 19, 2011)

I'm not exactly a SF fanboy but I hate to see them discontinue incans.There are a lot of LED lights to choose from but the amount of quality incans has never been as good and SF was the only producer in some cases.It makes sense that LEDs are taking over the market but until all the tint and CRI issues are worked out incans still have a place IMHO.The tried and true G2 and 6P are still lights of choice for me even when I'm after LEDs.I love the fact that I can switch back to a lamp with ease when only an incan will do!The demise of the A2 is the most surprising to me as there was never anything else on the market that offered the quality combination of LED and regulated incan.


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## jh333233 (Jul 6, 2011)

SF still makes profit from incan
as ppl r still buying them

now they pull the incan
both side have a loss
silly SF

also, if i want a high output led light, why the heck would i buy sf
theres other brand of led light which have better design and a cheaper price


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## Monocrom (Jul 7, 2011)

jh333233 said:


> also, if i want a high output led light, why the heck would i buy sf
> theres other brand of led light which have better design and a cheaper price



This has been covewred numerous times before, so I won't get too into it.

Basically, any company can do Cheap & Bright. Easiest trick in the world. Not every company can do durability, reliability, and most important of all . . . quality. 

Even Ultrafire can do Cheap & Bright. A month or two later, it'll likely crap out when you need it. But if all you want is Cheap & Bright, you have many choices.


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## ebow86 (Jul 7, 2011)

jh333233 said:


> also, if i want a high output led light, why the heck would i buy sf
> theres other brand of led light which have better design and a cheaper price


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## wuyeah (Jul 7, 2011)

May I also say, I also love the old aggrassive body better


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## Captain Spaulding (Jul 7, 2011)

Monocrom said:


> This has been covewred numerous times before, so I won't get too into it.
> 
> Basically, any company can do Cheap & Bright. Easiest trick in the world. Not every company can do durability, reliability, and most important of all . . . quality.
> 
> Even Ultrafire can do Cheap & Bright. A month or two later, it'll likely crap out when you need it. But if all you want is Cheap & Bright, you have many choices.



Well said!



ebow86 said:


>


 
Possibly even better said!


Cheap and bright is what _starts_ a lot of flashaholics. Surefire is what _keeps_ them.


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## jh333233 (Jul 7, 2011)

ive got some chinese LED lights, they are much cheaper but they are durable too, thick body
sometimes, cheap and quality can both exist
depends on which you chose
btw, LED itself is reliable and durable
but how about the driver?
the more parts a light have, a higher chance of error
and i DONT want to start a debate
everyone have their favorite
my choice is incan
thanks


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## Monocrom (Jul 7, 2011)

jh333233 said:


> ive got some chinese LED lights, they are much cheaper but they are durable too, thick body
> sometimes, cheap and quality can both exist.



Very true. But personally, in the over 3 decades I've been alive, I've yet to see both co-exist in the same item.


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## scout24 (Jul 7, 2011)

Captain Spaulding- That is definitely sig- worthy!


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## Size15's (Jul 7, 2011)

Lets keep this on topic of SureFire incandescents please


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## jh333233 (Jul 7, 2011)

they are keeping E1E *by now*, right??
did E1E survive this season?


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## run4jc (Jul 7, 2011)

jh333233 said:


> they are keeping E1E *by now*, right??
> did E1E survive this season?



Hope so - I love the E1E (and E2E). I have an E1E in HA still in the package...saving it just 'cause. Curious - 6P incan is one of the first Surefires I ever purchased, but immediately put a Nailbender in it (which is a great drop in) - but now I love it back as its normal incan self. Look at "My Lights" - I've gone nuts over Surefire Incans. Now that I've grown accustomed to the beam it's hard for me to go back to LEDs...

I suppose the good news is that most were purchased at reduced 'clearance' prices - the bad news is that they were on clearance!! So with my post it's my pleasure to once again sing the praises of the Surefire Incans...


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## Captain Spaulding (Jul 7, 2011)

scout24 said:


> Captain Spaulding- That is definitely sig- worthy!



I accidentally said something worthy?

maybe after I can finally work out my *%&[email protected]*&   "One of my images broken? PM Me please! Trying to fix them" issue  



Size15's said:


> Lets keep this on topic of SureFire incandescents please



Oh yeah. Sorry. I love 'em.


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## jh333233 (Jul 8, 2011)

in terms of beam profile ONLY
Surefire's incan>surefire's own LED (Comparing only the led model which derives from incan, like 6P and 6PL)
Incan gives light in a omni-direction and the light-emitting site is much smaller
while LED gives in 1 direction(well, the front) with a larger light-emitting sight
Focusing incan requires a smaller reflector thus they can be more focused in a D26 than a led
its true that led gives more output than a incan, they have a higher efficiency too
but when consider the beam profile
they are focused poorer than incan as they require a larger reflector
this thing is same for using lenses
there must ALWAYS be some spaces between the lens and the LED
where some output is lost as they were shined to the inner wall of the bezel but not to the lens
if you want to have a tighter focus with led you MUST get a very thick lens in order to do it
i didnt try the newly(relatively) made high output led such as m3lt/ub3t where they use fresnel lens to decrease the thickness of lens
so i am not commenting on these
Again, this is just my personal feeling,
i didnt say LED is bad or complain about them, but i just think incan suits me more.
thanks!

Forgot to say 1 very important thing:
while led gives more output,
in fact, not all of them goes the hotspot
just like a % of output goes the hotspot while
the others go to the spill

i would say, the % of hotspot for LED is MUCH smaller than incan.
in incan, most of the output goes to hotspot, leaving a little bit of spill
while a led(R2,R5,TIR or reflector, whatever) gives more spill and dim the hotspot


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