# LED Street Lighting Pics



## slavun (May 6, 2010)

Hi to All,
This is my first post here. I found this forum amazing. My interests are in LED Street Lighting and I would like to suggest you to discuss it here in this thread and post pics of real LED Street Lights which surround us. I do this because in manufactures websites "case studies" are a little bit manipulated in picture editors software.


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## kaichu dento (May 6, 2010)

I'm interested in seeing how this pans out, particularly because if they can make fixtures bright and reliable enough for the streets, they'll be able to follow shortly with better house lighting options.

Welcome to CPF - now get out there and make your second post!


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## jashhash (May 17, 2010)

I currently work for a company that does architectural outdoor lighting and street lighting. Right now I'm overseeing their LED projects. As it stands there are a couple of problems when trying to integrate LED's into street lighting. 

First of all we are having major overheating issues when trying to retrofit existing street lamps to make them accept LED technology. To manage overheating LED's are under driven to 1 watt per LED since LED's become more efficient with lower drive currents. 

The second problem is that LED street lights are extremely expensive and not many cities are willing to pay an extra $400-600 per street light. This is because it takes around 100 LED's to equal the output of a 150 watt Metal Halide lamp. 

Right now we are actually looking for foreign generic brand LED's which can bring down the cost significantly. Unfortunately it's really difficult to gauge the quality of Chinese and Taiwanese LED's. Right now China and Taiwan are just exploding with generic brand LED's and what I'm interested in is evaluating their companies and testing their products. Basically It's probably gonna be a couple years before LED street lighting really catches on and when it finally does it probably won't be CREE, OSRAM, or Phillips LED's (unless their prices drop significantly). Also because of the economy lighting companies (aside from a few companies like Beta LED) don't have much of an R&D budget and there are very few people in the lighting business who really know how to deal with LED's effectively. In fact I bet anyone here who has been following LED tech could get a job as an LED consultant with a lighting company.


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## KDK (May 17, 2010)

Here is a picture of our company's LED street Lighting Solution 

http://etilight.com/eti_newsite/lucent.html


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## jashhash (May 18, 2010)

There is no way a 50 watt LED street lamp (at 60lm/watt) would work in the US market since it just doesn't meet our lighting requirements. A fixture like this might well sell in asia where building codes aren't as regulated.


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## slavun (May 26, 2010)

jashhash said:


> Right now China and Taiwan are just exploding with generic brand LED's and what I'm interested in is evaluating their companies and testing their products.



Have you found good Chinese or Taiwan manufacturers? They are so many 
And what do you think of GE Lighting EVOLVE product? It is this year _"Next Generation Luminaires™" Competition winner._


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## jashhash (Jun 24, 2010)

So far the most successful LED street lights are those which are purposely designed around the LED board and are well heat sunk (like the GE Evolve). As far as I know the most sucessfull company to integrate LED's is BetaLED (www.betaled.com). What most lighting companies are looking for though is an LED module like a light bulb that is around 100 watts and wont overheat. Unfortunately I have yet to run across truly high quality Chinese LED's. So far I have tested the best at around 70 lm/watt.


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## deadrx7conv (Jun 24, 2010)

Why are so many of the LED street lights so grossly overpriced from most manufacturers? 

100w of LEDs =$100
extruded aluminum combination heatsink/housing =$100
ac-dc 100w driver/power supply= $50
glass or plastic lens = $30
assembly = $20
profit margin =$100
R&D =$100
fancy new eco-green product subsidized by taxpayer =$150
GREED =$150
Total=$800 (BTW this is what I was quoted for only one 100w streetlight for the poles out front, and I have 5 poles going down the driveway). 

Toss in economy of scale savings and I'm a little irate and annoyed by the grossly overpriced LED street lights that are available. I could only imagine what the financially irresponsible gov't purchasing contracts are paying. Just wait 'til they start burning out LEDs, drivers.....

We're already having issues with those LED traffic and crosswalk lights. They just don't work as long as advertised.


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## kushagra (Jul 1, 2010)

hey guys i am an electronics and communication engineer and i am getting a job in production of LED so is it fine as a future prospect plzzzz reply its urgent


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## yowzer (Jul 7, 2010)

jashhash said:


> I currently work for a company that does architectural outdoor lighting and street lighting. Right now I'm overseeing their LED projects. As it stands there are a couple of problems when trying to integrate LED's into street lighting.
> 
> First of all we are having major overheating issues when trying to retrofit existing street lamps to make them accept LED technology. To manage overheating LED's are under driven to 1 watt per LED since LED's become more efficient with lower drive currents.
> 
> The second problem is that LED street lights are extremely expensive and not many cities are willing to pay an extra $400-600 per street light. This is because it takes around 100 LED's to equal the output of a 150 watt Metal Halide lamp.




I don't know any of the technical details or how (Or even if) they're addressing issues like heat dissapation, but Seattle seems dead-set on LED streetlights. They're supposed to be installing 40,000 of them over the next few years.

http://ballard.komonews.com/content/ballard-leds-way

The video in that links shows the fixture, but you can't see any of the actual emitters. Being very much on the pessimistic side when it comes to the city's ability to pick the best solution for anything, I'm picturing 5mm LEDs putting out a sickly purple glow.


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## Lighthouse one (Jul 15, 2010)

Evolux has a 100 watt led light that uses a tiny fan to keep cool.
http://www.earthled.com/evolux-led-light-bulb.html


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## jashhash (Jul 28, 2010)

That isn't a 100w led light, its a "13 watt equivalent to 100 watt incandescent." Good news though. Recently I have imported several different LED samples direct from Chinese manufacturers. Amazingly nearly all of them perform at light levels equivalent to a R2 bin cree. I have had some stability issues with a one 3 watt model, but the other models are proving to be quite reliable. All this at half the price of what Cree sells them at. Actually I'm thinking about starting a group buy with one of the 3 watt LED's (minimum order is 1,000 pieces)

Best LED I have found:

3000k warm white
105 lm/watt (tested in my own home brew integrating sphere)
I have run this model of LED's non stop at 700mah for 120 hours and they show no sign
of degrading.


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## blasterman (Jul 28, 2010)

We've bantered this to death in the fixed lighting forum, and we've concluded the main costs savings with LED street lamps is not energy savings, but the lack of need to change any bulbs for 10 years.

Local city workers in my area make a ridiculous salary, pension, blah, blah, blah. So, its cheaper to install rather pricey LED fixtures and lay off a couple 'bulb changers'. 

Personally I'd rather stick to 4100k halides and hire a couple college kids to change the bulbs each summer and everybody saves money. The LED lights they're testing down-town in my 'hood' are plenty bright, but are very high CCT and are hard on the eyes.



> All this at half the price of what Cree sells them at.


 
Chinese are starting to figure out how to utilize the patents they're actually stealing. Go figure  105 l/per watt at 3000k is pretty impressive.


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## made in china (Jul 30, 2010)

blasterman said:


> We've bantered this to death in the fixed lighting forum, and we've concluded the main costs savings with LED street lamps is not energy savings, but the lack of need to change any bulbs for 10 years.
> 
> Local city workers in my area make a ridiculous salary, pension, blah, blah, blah. So, its cheaper to install rather pricey LED fixtures and lay off a couple 'bulb changers'.
> 
> ...



Any of these manufacturers offering a 10 year warranty? as far as I know, it is only speculation how long these power LEDs will last. Some of the LED street lights in Seattle have already begun color shifting to green, which indicates the phosphor is being cooked.


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## jashhash (Jul 31, 2010)

As far as I know there are very few LED's out there that have been tested to 50,000hrs and generic or not this number is an impossible claim for almost any street light manufacturer. Same thing holds true for flashlights and interior lighting. Nobody to my knowledge has ever run their flashlight past 50,000 hrs. Actually the vast majority of flashlights don't see more than 10 hours of use.


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## made in china (Jul 31, 2010)

Yeah, as I recall, the old American made LEDs that were low intensity could last 50K hours before considerable loss of output. Everyone who wants to sell high power LED lighting wants to latch on to that old established fact. But a white, high power LED is living a hard life. Even if the LED could survive 50K hours, at what level of light loss? Also, I could see that the power supplies used in LED street lighting could be a weak link too.

As an anecdote, I saw a new Audi today with those LED daytime running lights and they had already shifted to a burned green tint.


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## jashhash (Aug 1, 2010)

Premature degrading can also be a sign of poor thermal design. A lot of people aren't aware of just how much heat sinking is required for an LED system to last. Also I have witnessed 5mm, and high flux type of LED's (like the ones that may be used in the Audi) tend to degrade much faster than the 3 watt high power types. At work we had a salesman come in with this huge 60 watt foot long LED bulb that was composed of 960 5mm LED's. After testing it for 720 hours I measured a lumen depreciation of 17%. 

The reason why I'm looking for Chinese LED's right now is to significantly reduce the cost of an LED fixture. As it stands a 100 watt LED board using CREE components would cost us about $400.00 minimum and that's a lot of money. In order for our company to turn a profit we have to sell that board for $600.00. Now when an architect calls in to place an order he has the option of either spending $400 on an HID fixture or $800 on an LED fixture which one would he likely choose? As you can see the only way we can increase sales of LED fixtures is by importing a generic Chinese LED board. 

Well I have gone ahead and ordered two Chinese LED boards capable of 100 watts, I hope that these LED's can stand the test of time.


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## made in china (Aug 1, 2010)

Another thing to note about LED lighting: Likely you won't be able to replace failed parts like power supplies or LED clusters when they fail. If a city spends $1000 per LED street light, and they find that 5 years down the road they start having failures, they'll probably need to replace the entire fixture. And at that time, Federal assistance won't be available. Because LED technology is ever evolving, I just can't see spare parts being available for long. Mr. Jashhash here has stated that he intends to import Chinese product. But will he have the same parts a few years down the road?
A standard HID street light can be easily serviced, a lamp can be replaced for $30 (parts) and a ballast less than $100 (parts).
LED lighting is very susceptible to lightning strikes also. We'll see...


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## jashhash (Aug 3, 2010)

Your right that's one other huge problem with LED lighting. Often times they need to be heat sunk extremely well, which means the LED board needs to be bolted down tightly, and most electricians wouldn't have a clue how to replace a failed board (or know how to properly apply thermal grease). Like any other bulb system, there needs to be a standardized socket and plug. Unfortunately right now THERE IS NO STANDARD. If there is a standard then its up to each individual fixture manufacturer to invent one. Most companies out there have no plan for how to replace a failed board other than having the whole fixture sent back to the factory for repair. Also it is likely that the driver will fail before the LED's do, and so for the sake of argument there should be a standardized socket for the driver located at the base of the light pole. 

In the coming years as LED's develop you should expect to see these problems addressed and solved.


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## LEDMasterClass (Aug 6, 2010)

Here are some more functional steetlighting photos: http://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/pool/

regards,


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## jashhash (Aug 7, 2010)

What many people aren't aware of is the politics surrounding LED street lighting. Right now every LED manufacturer is fighting for a market share of what could be the biggest source of revenue. American LED manufacturers are fighting hard with each other and the ominous inevitability that luminaire manufacturers will eventually turn to China for a fairly priced LED. The truth is that there are so many people still so amazed by what high power LED's can do and this novel amazement blinds them from the fact that they are simply paying too much. 

In any semiconductor industry prices plummet with the advance of new technology. Take a computer for example which costing initially $1,000 falls to $250 in the course of 4 years. Now it seems to me that LED's should be following a similar trend, and those who have spent money in R&D should have already recouped their losses. Yet somehow year after year I'm amazed at how LED's continue to sell at a similar price. Maybe I'm crazy but It seems reasonable to me that the R2 bin LED's which are currently being sold to us at $5.00 a piece should only be costing us no more than $1.50. In large quantities it seems reasonable to me that a 100 watt LED board should sell for $50.00 not $400.00

So how does Cree, Osram, and Philips plan to compete with the threat of high quality Chinese LED's? US based LED companies push new legislature like this years LM-80 standard. This standard requires that a LED manufacturer must provide a reliability report that shows lumen depreciation over around 9,000 hours of operation. While this sounds like a great idea, this new standard effectively eliminates all Chinese LED's since it would take them over a year to run LED's to 9,000 hours. If the LM-80 standard is adopted as a requirement for receiving an energy star rating, we will continue to be forced to pay CREE, Philips, or Osram for their products at a ridiculous price. 

Just my 2 cents but maybe im just a ranting lunatic. *puts on his foil hat


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## LEDMasterClass (Aug 20, 2010)

On Flickr you can find more streetlighting photos: bit.ly/aPPDbe 

(some are LED, some are HID - CosmoPolis)

best regards,
LMC


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## chinese LEDbulb factory (Aug 21, 2010)

jashhash said:


> What many people aren't aware of is the politics surrounding LED street lighting. Right now every LED manufacturer is fighting for a market share of what could be the biggest source of revenue. American LED manufacturers are fighting hard with each other and the ominous inevitability that luminaire manufacturers will eventually turn to China for a fairly priced LED. The truth is that there are so many people still so amazed by what high power LED's can do and this novel amazement blinds them from the fact that they are simply paying too much.
> 
> In any semiconductor industry prices plummet with the advance of new technology. Take a computer for example which costing initially $1,000 falls to $250 in the course of 4 years. Now it seems to me that LED's should be following a similar trend, and those who have spent money in R&D should have already recouped their losses. Yet somehow year after year I'm amazed at how LED's continue to sell at a similar price. Maybe I'm crazy but It seems reasonable to me that the R2 bin LED's which are currently being sold to us at $5.00 a piece should only be costing us no more than $1.50. In large quantities it seems reasonable to me that a 100 watt LED board should sell for $50.00 not $400.00
> 
> ...


there is a trend that the price of led lamp will down is true,this is the general trend for every new product ,just as said above,computer for example which costing initially $1,000 falls to $250 in the course of 4 years


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## HarryN (Sep 8, 2010)

deadrx7conv said:


> Why are so many of the LED street lights so grossly overpriced from most manufacturers?
> 
> 100w of LEDs =$100
> extruded aluminum combination heatsink/housing =$100
> ...



Hi, it sounds easy, doesn't it. In practice, just try to make an LED flashlight for less than you will pay for a surefire - go ahead. 

100 watts of LEDs, decent quality, driven at a current that will make you happy with lifetime and efficiency - about $ 300 - if you buy in bulk.

Drivers- 100 watts of drive power, plus outdoor rated, for even close to the 10K hours of life - a lot more than $ 50.

Custom circuit boards for the LEDs for your light - R/D alone is probably $ 10 - 20K, plus actually making them up (in qty at least 1,000 units, on their money) prob at least $ 25 - 50 each, plus assy.

Profit margin - yes, $ 100 might be viable for a product that is selling very well, but for a low volume product - might be marginal for the up front investment needed.

Agency Certification (UL, or eq) - Another couple grand, for each version.


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## HarryN (Sep 8, 2010)

chinese LEDbulb factory said:


> there is a trend that the price of led lamp will down is true,this is the general trend for every new product ,just as said above,computer for example which costing initially $1,000 falls to $250 in the course of 4 years



This is definitely true, but keep in mind how far we have come. A 200 Lumen (rated) LED just 5 - 6 years ago was nearly $ 50 / each. Now it is easy to buy a brand name, high quality, well engineered, fully tested similar LED for $ 3 / each, from the same companies. (Cree / Lumileds / Osram )

In addition to being cheaper, the modern LEDs are more efficient and have better color rendering.

Computers are an intersting comparison, but not necessarily an ideal model for this technology. LEDs are to some extent more of a "surface area" driven model vs "ability to shrink the basic circuits" model. 

The reactors to build these LEDs are starting to hit up against some interesting size limitations. I won't say that they are at the end, but the 5X increase in capacity with only a 1.5 increase in costs since 1983 isn't likely to happen during the next 7 years.

It is unlikely that the efficiency and brightness gains per square mm will increase going forward nearly as much as during the past 5-7 years, leaving primarily manufacturing yield to drive cost improvements.

I have some serious doubts that there is enough improvement left to achieve another 10X improvement in Lumens / dollar in a quality LED. Of course, I have been wrong many times before. :shrug:


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## oblivion_lumens (Apr 20, 2011)

don't see street with LED lighting in my city yet....


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## lightr07 (May 14, 2011)

Here in Arizona, the city of Scottsdale has been testing some LED lamps in street lamps which are sitting on motorway overpasses. This has just started in about the last 30-60 days, and took me by quite a bit of surprise. From my best judgement, they look to be 4 rows of 18-24 LEDs. Like I said, these are barely 60 days old, and the Arizona summer is fast approaching, so I'll be interested to see how they survive in 115F heat. The light emitted is actually a very nice pure white colour.

Locally in my neighbourhood, above our community post boxes, the homeowners association recently installed motion activated LED lights, installed on about a 14 foot pole, they seem to be 8 LEDs arranged in a circle, and also work really well, however they only are activated by motion/heat, and stay on for about 2 minutes after the last detection of movement.


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## 2xTrinity (May 23, 2011)

lightr07 said:


> Here in Arizona, the city of Scottsdale has been testing some LED lamps in street lamps which are sitting on motorway overpasses. This has just started in about the last 30-60 days, and took me by quite a bit of surprise. From my best judgement, they look to be 4 rows of 18-24 LEDs. Like I said, these are barely 60 days old, and the Arizona summer is fast approaching, so I'll be interested to see how they survive in 115F heat. The light emitted is actually a very nice pure white colour.
> 
> Locally in my neighbourhood, above our community post boxes, the homeowners association recently installed motion activated LED lights, installed on about a 14 foot pole, they seem to be 8 LEDs arranged in a circle, and also work really well, however they only are activated by motion/heat, and stay on for about 2 minutes after the last detection of movement.



I've started to see some LED lights popping up in Tucson, Arizona recently... I've been wondering the same thing about how well these will survive summer ambient temperatures. 

The lights I've seen go in actually replaced high pressure sodium, so warm/neutral white LED tint. Light is directed straight down on most and Illuminance is lower than the high pressure sodium lamps that were replaced. That's not necessarily a bad thing. Around here many streets are simply left unlit entirely to keep down light pollution for the nearby obesrvatories, anyway.


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## michael b (Aug 11, 2011)

Lighthouse one said:


> Evolux has a 100 watt led light that uses a tiny fan to keep cool.
> http://www.earthled.com/evolux-led-light-bulb.html


 

Seeing this post/advertisement...It has me thinking of at least converting part of my home's CFL's (which I completely converted to a couple years ago). I see the numbers that are posted for savings, but has anyone put this to a true test and seen the results on their bills? I am new to the idea of getting LEDs for the home, so I apologize for the ignorance. It seems like a logical idea for a cost cutting method.


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## DM51 (Aug 12, 2011)

Welcome to CPF, michael b. 

Your post doesn't really belong in this thread, which is about Street Lighting. You'll find other threads on Domestic LED lighting if you look down the Index.


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## LEDninja (Aug 27, 2011)

OOPs! wrong place.


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## Kardings (Sep 19, 2011)

Led street light cost can be prohibitive to most cities especially during these times. A true lighting solution company will use LED and induction lamps as induction is better suited for some applications. And LED does save large amounts of money in electricity and maintenance ,I do not see how there can be any argument there. After 100's of studies it is easy to see.


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## folke (Sep 20, 2011)

It seems MCOB LED technology is replacing SMD LED's but most LED street light manufactures still uses multiple numbers of 2-3 W LED's in their lights instead of one high power LED , why is that?


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## elviacannon (Oct 12, 2011)

I just buy some LED street lights not long ago, buying solar powered LED street lights is not so easy as 12 volt led bulbs 
, so the salesman told me many advantages of solar powered LED street lights, which is summed up as follows: 

Because of energy saving ability of LED street lights, cost of solar street lighting system will be much lower. 
Save all your electricity cost. Save electric transformer and cable cost. 
Long lifespan. Lifespan of solar panel is 20-25 years. Lifespan of LED street lights 6-8 years. Lifespan of battery is 4-6 years. 
Maintain Free 
24 months warranty for the whole solar street lighting system 
When the power consumption of LED street lights is lower than 80W, ROI of solar street lights is very high.


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