# NEW DURACELL ULTRA AA LITHUIM



## TRITON (Jun 5, 2010)

Hi, just saw an add for the new Duracell AA ultra lithium [ primary] battery. cant find much info about this on battery review sites, maybe too new, only just been released apparently, just wondered if any body else has come across this yet and is it better than the energizer lithium. They say it is the most powerful lithium AA battery yet useing M3 technology what ever that is ? I wonder what the miliamps is rated at ?. Anybody know anything else about this battery.


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## carrot (Jun 5, 2010)

I went on Duracell's website hoping to find a spec sheet but couldn't find anything. It probably is too new like you said.


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## paulr (Jun 5, 2010)

Interesting. Googling duracell + LF1500 finds some sketchy info. They are available in Australia and Germany/Austria, price comparable to Energizer L91's, claim to last 6x longer than alkalines, which I guess positions it slightly below the L91 ("7x"). There is an MSDS saying it is a Li FeS2 cell like the L91.


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## TRITON (Jun 5, 2010)

Thanks Carrot and Paulr, I will see if I can find some and try them out. I'm in oz by the way [south oz].


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jun 5, 2010)

I remember Energizer had some sort of patent preventing other companies from selling L91 cells in the U.S. Did that patent expire? Or, was the patent only in the United States?


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## Gallo 24 (Jun 5, 2010)

maybe not available in the states yet? you can get your hands on these on ebay though 

http://cgi.ebay.com/20x-Duracell-CR...s_Chargers&hash=item3a4bb87413#ht_2300wt_1137


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## mfm (Jun 5, 2010)

Gallo 24 said:


> maybe not available in the states yet? you can get your hands on these on ebay though
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/20x-Duracell-CR...s_Chargers&hash=item3a4bb87413#ht_2300wt_1137



You linked to fake Duracell CR123A batteries, they are not genuine Duracell nor are they AA format.


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## Gallo 24 (Jun 5, 2010)

mfm said:


> You linked to fake Duracell CR123A batteries, they are not genuine Duracell nor are they AA format.



im confused on how you know they are fake? they have oem packaging and according to the wikipedia article, the lithium series batteries are manufactured outside of the US. If you click on the seller, they sell a variety of other size batteries too.


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## mfm (Jun 5, 2010)

Gallo 24 said:


> im confused on how you know they are fake? they have oem packaging and according to the wikipedia article, the lithium series batteries are manufactured outside of the US. If you click on the seller, they sell a variety of other size batteries too.


Because I have seen the volumes of fake Duracell CR123A batteries in the streets of Hong Kong.

Also, I think someone sent their package from HKasiaMall to Duracell that came to the conclusion that the cells were fake.


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## Illum (Jun 5, 2010)

they might not be fakes, as duracell packaging in Taiwan looks almost just like that....but either way thats not what this threads inquiring on. we're talking about AA's, like energizer AA lithiums "L91/L92" Lithium cells, NOT Cr123As


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## Lynx_Arc (Jun 5, 2010)

here is a blurb about the release from a few months back..
http://www.duracelldirect.co.uk/blog/products-press-articles/duracell-ultra-lithium-aa-batteries/


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## Obalux (May 26, 2011)

Looks like these are available now!







http://professional.duracell.com/en/ultra-lithium

http://www.duracelldirect.co.uk/pno/lf1500-x4.html


Datasheet:

http://professional.duracell.com/downloads/datasheets/product/Ultra Lithium/Ultra-Lithium_AA.pdf


Any experiences yet? Are these as good or even better as Energizer lithiums?


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## HooNz (May 27, 2011)

I did not know they were new a few months back when i purchased 24 in a box from a supplier here in Oz they were cheap compared to a local store also , and i can not recall who it was yet . but no trouble from them here , in a thirsty camera and a D11 with drain! .


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## HooNz (May 27, 2011)

I still had the link in favorites , hollyshock - batteries , the bulk link , but i got it wrong after relooking , it was 24 normal ultras and a couple of cards of the Lithium , the 2+2 cards and prices seem to have gone up from then too. look up just on the link to AA .

(no affiliation with them either)


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## flame2000 (May 27, 2011)

Glad to know Duracell is making primary AA lithium as well. Hope its cheaper than Energizer L91!


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## Robin24k (May 27, 2011)

I see both the Duracell Bunny and Duracell Lithium AA's...somehow, I don't think the site is intended for US visitors. I thought Duracell Lithium AA's have been out for a while outside of the US?


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## Makitamike (May 30, 2011)

As far as I know Duracell didn't release these in the US because Energizer's patent is still valid of a few more years. Once that expires every manufacturer will have a version out.


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## flame2000 (May 31, 2011)

Makitamike said:


> As far as I know Duracell didn't release these in the US because Energizer's patent is still valid of a few more years. Once that expires every manufacturer will have a version out.


 
That doesn't sound good for consumers....a patent to stop other competitors from releasing a similar or competitive product in US. 
Meaning if Sanyo or other manufacturers have a primary lithium AA, they can't sell it in US?


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## Robin24k (May 31, 2011)

It's the same with prescription drugs, that's why generics aren't immediately available. It's to ensure that the manufacturers get back their R&D costs.


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## Lynx_Arc (May 31, 2011)

flame2000 said:


> That doesn't sound good for consumers....a patent to stop other competitors from releasing a similar or competitive product in US.
> Meaning if Sanyo or other manufacturers have a primary lithium AA, they can't sell it in US?


 
The US has stricter patent protection than a lot of other countries so we end up paying more and longer for products that other countries get for cheap. I would like to see how cheap they can make and sell lithium AAs for myself. If they can make and sell them for $1 each then when energizer's patent expires it could get interesting as less alkaline batteries litter store shelves


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## CKOD (May 31, 2011)

flame2000 said:


> That doesn't sound good for consumers....a patent to stop other competitors from releasing a similar or competitive product in US.
> Meaning if Sanyo or other manufacturers have a primary lithium AA, they can't sell it in US?



You spend a few hundred K or more on R and D and have someone making their own equivalent after ~50k in reverse engineering and some analytical chemistry((or just reading the patent :nana: )) , and undercutting you at 75% of the price and making a bigger profit margin. Now thats really not good for consumers as companies just wait for someone to spend the money and then take their idea 

And Sanyo and Duracell can both sell primary lithium AA's, they just cant be lithium iron disulfide cells, if they find a new chemestry that isnt covered under the scope of energizer's patent, they can sell those. 

http://www.google.com/patents?id=sG...ge&q=energizer lithium iron disulfide&f=false is the patent if youre curious, Claims are on page 9, and actually shows a lot of technical information about whats inside the cell rather then "some black crap, lithium foil, and a black rod" like you'd find opening it up. 

However, in places where energizer's patent has expired, or they didnt get a patent, duracell and everyone can have at it, selling them there.


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## flame2000 (May 31, 2011)

OK, now I got it. Thanks for the explanation on the patent thing! 
I was just looking from a consumer point of view.....cheap for everyone of us!


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## Lynx_Arc (May 31, 2011)

If you look at how duracell and energizer DON'T compete in pricing, they only compete in hype (runtime)... I don't expect duracell to be very competitive in lithium AAs here when energizers patent expires as they tend to want more than energizer at times for the same class of batteries. I could see rayovac sporting a better price but even then I would not expect more than 1/3 cheaper. Perhaps lithium advanced type of batteries at $5/4 pack and ultras for $7.50/4pack which IMO doesn't inspire me to buy them readily as the pricing is still to close to LSD nimh. I figure maybe in time you will see costco, walgreens, etc.. generic lithiums sold in 20 packs for $15 or so then things will start to roll but also with the drug makers that poses a serious problem at stores restricting the sale of lithium AAs in large quantity does raise the cost back up some.


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## radar45 (Jul 23, 2011)

Hi, I just purchased a 4 pack of AA Duracell Ultra Lithium batteries for AU$10.00 from Kmart here in Albany Western Australia. Energizer Lithium 4 pack are AU$22.00. I would like to see a comparsion between them to see which is the best. Looked on YouTube but cant find a compare.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 23, 2011)

radar45 said:


> Hi, I just purchased a 4 pack of AA Duracell Ultra Lithium batteries for AU$10.00 from Kmart here in Albany Western Australia. Energizer Lithium 4 pack are AU$22.00. I would like to see a comparsion between them to see which is the best. Looked on YouTube but cant find a compare.


 
I would say the duracell is the best.... because it is $3 cheaper per battery


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## ChibiM (Jul 23, 2011)

Yeah.. Interesting to know! let us know when somebody can get to a conclusion.... Duracell or Energizer?


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## flame2000 (Jul 23, 2011)

radar45 said:


> Hi, I just purchased a 4 pack of AA Duracell Ultra Lithium batteries for AU$10.00 from Kmart here in Albany Western Australia. Energizer Lithium 4 pack are AU$22.00. I would like to see a comparsion between them to see which is the best. Looked on YouTube but cant find a compare.



That's a huge difference in price! 
Love the Duracell pricing. Hope the cell is just as good!


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## CheepSteal (Jul 23, 2011)

I bought these at the end of 2010 when I first saw them at the 24 hour Kmart at Casula, Sydney (Hi-five if you go here too!). I gave my girlfriend an old AA 120 lumen light (single mode) with a fresh pair of these batteries and she's been using that light for over 7 months daily (non-flashaholic use) with the initial pair of Duracell Lithiums. I'd say they perform just as well as L91s.
I took this picture just a few weeks ago, looks like Kmart has the best price around for lithiums. I checked around and these run for $20 at Coles supermarket. 
I still have a pair with little use from 7 months ago. It measures 1.72v on my DMM even though the packaging/wrapper says 1.5v. Strangely, the exp date says March 2024; I thought lithiums have 10 year shelf life?


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## Quality (Jul 23, 2011)

These type of Lithiums have a minimum shelf life of 10 years, and obviously they seem to go beyond that minimum.

Cool pics/info CheepSteal, I hope that Duracell can release those in the US for less than half the price too.


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## davidV5 (Jul 24, 2011)

Like Energizer, these cells are good for 15 years.


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## flame2000 (Jul 24, 2011)

The lithium primary usually have a max 15 years self life. And the voltages are typically 1.7~1.75v. On some of my energizer lithium, I get ~1.8v, but that's maybe due to the tolerance on my cheapo DMM.


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## Scott Packard (Jul 24, 2011)

What about the House of Batteries 4-pk for $6.79 (+1.99shipping) at Fry's?
http://www.frys.com/product/4333885
I don't find anything online about capacity.


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## Bat (Jul 24, 2011)

so the patent war with Energizer is over now?


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 24, 2011)

Bat said:


> so the patent war with Energizer is over now?


 
Don't think so.... I think that patents are weaker overseas (last for shorter time). I tried to find how long energizers patent is for, maybe it will run out in the next few years and we will see lithium primaries for $5/4pack normal price.


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## ncbill (Jul 25, 2011)

20 years from the filing date - so until February 2027 unless it is a design patent (if so then it expires February 2021)



Lynx_Arc said:


> Don't think so.... I think that patents are weaker overseas (last for shorter time). I tried to find how long energizers patent is for, maybe it will run out in the next few years and we will see lithium primaries for $5/4pack normal price.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jul 25, 2011)

ncbill said:


> 20 years from the filing date - so until February 2027 unless it is a design patent (if so then it expires February 2021)


 
If it is that long maybe some new fangled recipe will come up in the meantime.... 16 years is a long time to be stuck paying $2.50 for a AA/AAA primary


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## TRITON (Jul 25, 2011)

WOW, $10 for 4 - I think I must go check out a K-mart soon (lol)

TRITON..


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## flame2000 (Jul 25, 2011)

After further check, i realized battery junction had been selling the energizer lithium AA, $7.79 for pack of 4 for our US friends.  wish we had this kind of prices here!


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## sunfire (Nov 5, 2011)

Just arrived here:

http://www.duracell.com.br/pt-BR/product/ultra-lithium-pilhas.jspx

"Our best and most powerful alkaline battery" WHAT??? :duh2:


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## Battery Guy (Nov 5, 2011)

The Duracell version has slightly higher power and lower energy when compared to the Energizer Ultra. See here.

The cross-over point appears to be about 1.5 W. So at discharge levels below 1.5 W, the Energizer Ultra is the way to go. For discharge levels above 1.5 W, the Duracell should perform better.

Note that Philips also has a 1.5 V lithium primary AA and AAA battery. However, rumor has it that both the Philips and the Duracell 1.5 V lithium batteries are made in the same facility. I cannot confirm as I have not yet tested the Philips product.

Finally, I know that everyone thinks that the cost of these batteries are artificially elevated in North America because Energizer has a lock on the market. Well, don't expect prices to drop much when the Energizer patents run out. These are inherently much more expensive batteries to make than alkaline cells. I have heard that the separator in a AA Energizer cell costs more than an entire alkaline AA cell, and I believe it. 

Cheers,
BG


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## Lynx_Arc (Nov 5, 2011)

Battery Guy said:


> Finally, I know that everyone thinks that the cost of these batteries are artificially elevated in North America because Energizer has a lock on the market. Well, don't expect prices to drop much when the Energizer patents run out. These are inherently much more expensive batteries to make than alkaline cells. I have heard that the separator in a AA Energizer cell costs more than an entire alkaline AA cell, and I believe it.
> 
> Cheers,
> BG


I don't expect the price to drop to lower than $6/4pack for them myself as you don't see the name brands pricing alkalines anywhere near as cheap as the generics are pricing them. I would almost consider price fixing on alkalines between duracell and energizer with rayovac slightly cheaper.


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## Quiksilver (Jan 13, 2012)

I just picked up a few packs of 4, in K-mart. They were on clearance for $5/pack or $1.25/cell. 

The Energizer lithiums were right beside the duracells, except the Energizers were going for $20/pack or $5/cell.

I am confused at the price difference and would like to know which is better for use in flashlights? Assuming the Energizers are superior, are they 3x better than the Duracell lithiums?


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## Burgess (Jan 13, 2012)

Quiksilver --

Are you in U.S.A. ? ? ?



_


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 13, 2012)

Quiksilver said:


> I just picked up a few packs of 4, in K-mart. They were on clearance for $5/pack or $1.25/cell.
> 
> The Energizer lithiums were right beside the duracells, except the Energizers were going for $20/pack or $5/cell.
> 
> I am confused at the price difference and would like to know which is better for use in flashlights? Assuming the Energizers are superior, are they 3x better than the Duracell lithiums?


The price difference is obvious..... clearance = savings. Perhaps duracells are not selling or there is legal pressure to pull them in the works now.

As for which is best? You would have to test them we don't have access to them in the states but you could mail some to silverfox or batteryguy and have them test them and compare to L91s .


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## Black Rose (Jan 13, 2012)

Burgess said:


> Quiksilver --
> 
> Are you in U.S.A. ? ? ?
> 
> ...


The only other place I know where there are still K-Marts is Australia.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 13, 2012)

Black Rose said:


> The only other place I know where there are still K-Marts is Australia.


There are Kmarts here in the USA but soon there will be less of either them or Sears but Duracell is unable to sell lithium AA primaries due to patent protection here.


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## Quiksilver (Jan 14, 2012)

So the jury is still out on the runtime/output difference between Energizer and Duracell lithiums?

If they are comparable, maybe I should head back to the store and help them with their clearance effort. 

$5/4 is a lot more cost effective than $20/4 if what I get at the end is roughly the same.


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## Lynx_Arc (Jan 14, 2012)

Quiksilver said:


> So the jury is still out on the runtime/output difference between Energizer and Duracell lithiums?
> 
> If they are comparable, maybe I should head back to the store and help them with their clearance effort.
> 
> $5/4 is a lot more cost effective than $20/4 if what I get at the end is roughly the same.


Even if they are only half as long on runtime for 1/4 the price you can buy twice and many to match the output for half the price


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## Black Rose (Jan 14, 2012)

Quiksilver said:


> So the jury is still out on the runtime/output difference between Energizer and Duracell lithiums?


The Energizer and Duracell are both 3000 mAh cells, so chances are they are pretty close in performance.

Based on the data sheets, the Energizer has better cold weather performance -40°C to 60°C (-40°F to 140°F) vs -20°C to 60°C (-40°F to 140°F) for the Duracell.



> If they are comparable, maybe I should head back to the store and help them with their clearance effort.
> 
> $5/4 is a lot more cost effective than $20/4 if what I get at the end is roughly the same.


At $5 for 4, I would've bought a lot of them anyway.


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## Battery Guy (Jan 15, 2012)

Quiksilver said:


> So the jury is still out on the runtime/output difference between Energizer and Duracell lithiums?



No, the jury is not still out. You can see the difference in the AA Ragone Plot thread. Bottom line is that the Duracell has slightly higher power and the Energizer has slightly higher energy. The cross-over point is at ~1.4 W discharge, or a discharge rate of ~C/2.5. At higher power and/or higher rate discharge, the Duracell is better, and at lower power and/or lower rate discharge the Energizer will give you better performance.

But at $1.25 per cell, the Duracell is definitely a fantastic deal.

Cheers,
BG


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