# Cree XP-G 3000k 90+ CRI vs Nichia 219 4500k 92 CRI: which one do you prefer and why?



## HighLumens (Apr 21, 2012)

Which one do you prefer and why?


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## arek98 (Apr 30, 2012)

Nichia 219 4500k. 3000K is to yellow for me.


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## jtr1962 (Apr 30, 2012)

arek98 said:


> Nichia 219 4500k. 3000K is to yellow for me.


Same here.


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## mvyrmnd (Apr 30, 2012)

At this point, every light I use has the 7A3 90 CRI XP-G. I love this emitter, it gives the same light as an incan with all the benefits of LED.

I will eventually try the nichia to compare, but oh how I love the XP-G!


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## psychbeat (May 1, 2012)

My two most used lights:
KAVElight (p60 headlamp host) 
2.8a dual hiCRI XPG + 3.5a 4C XML

HiCRI Quark mini123 on 16430 

I really like the XPG but prefer something in the 5B-ish tint. 
3000K is a little warm for me. 

I do wonder if the flux is higher on the 219? -might be seeing as the XPG hiCRI is Q-something yah?



Also, the viewing angle looks SLIGHTLY narrower on the 219 right?


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## geisto (May 9, 2012)

I prefer the 219...high CRI, more lumens, and neutral tint.


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## psychbeat (May 9, 2012)

geisto said:


> I prefer the 219...high CRI, more lumens, and neutral tint.



I'm wondering if anyone can compare these two @ the same currents in a sphere?

Can't wait to get my 219triple!


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## ICUDoc (May 9, 2012)

arek98 said:


> Nichia 219 4500k. 3000K is to yellow for me.


+1, as they say.


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## Lux-RC (May 9, 2012)

psychbeat said:


> I'm wondering if anyone can compare these two @ the same currents in a sphere?



just tested today, I got a few different tiples







so the most interesting ones (all LED's are tested at 1.5A constant current):

#1. THE KEY TRIPLE (100%). I have a not calibrated sphere so all measurements are made relative to the key triple which is CREE R5 (cool white, >139lm @350mA).
The total power consumed is 8.5V * 1.82A = *15.47 watts* (including the regulator losses).







#2. Outdoor CREE XP-G R4 (about CCT 4500K, >130 lumens @350mA). 
The total power consumed is 8.5V * 1.8A = *15.3 watts* (including the regulator losses).
The flux is just 10% less vs R5 flux bin (it's very close to the datasheet)






#4. It's an off-topic here but it's a very good neutral-color perfomer. Samsung 3535 5000K.
The flux is the same as CREE R5 but again, it's not cool, it's a neutral LED which normally perform less.
The overal efficacy is not as good as CREE's, the triple consumes 2 watts more due to higher Vf.
The total power consumed is 8.5V * 2.03A = *17.26 watts* (including the regulator losses).






so let's see now some Nichia's 

#5. CCT 5000K Nichia from LedRise.com (sorry but I lost it's full specs). It's not Hi-CRI but the color tint is beautiful.
So it's almost as bright as R5 CREE (94%), but can't beat CREE in power efficacy due to a higher Vf voltage.
The total power consumed is 8.5V * 2.11A = *17.94 watts* (including the regulator losses).







#6. And the last but not the least Nichia Hi-CRI. It's the highest B10 flux bin, the lowest Vf (L bin), neutral color (SW45), very high color rendering index (Ra 92). 
So we can see a drastic flux loss (74% vs R5), the price paid for a quality light. The total consumed power exceeds CREE's triple making CREE still the best in terms of total efficiency (The total power consumed is 8.5V * 2.03A = *17.26 watts)*






PS waiting when the rain will stop to make some beamshots in the trees


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## Roger Bannister (May 10, 2012)

Very nice, thanks for sharing!

Hey Lux, where did you buy your triples from? Might have to pick some up myself.


Thanks,

Roger


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## mvyrmnd (May 10, 2012)

Roger Bannister said:


> Very nice, thanks for sharing!
> 
> Hey Lux, where did you buy your triples from? Might have to pick some up myself.
> 
> ...



LuxRC is the one who sells them!

I'd love to see the 90-CRI XP-G added to that little comparison!


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## ites (May 10, 2012)

Roger Bannister said:


> Very nice, thanks for sharing!
> 
> Hey Lux, where did you buy your triples from? Might have to pick some up myself.
> 
> ...


He made them  http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/products/light_engines/3UP/product_selector


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## wquiles (May 10, 2012)

You can buy single 219 LED's and triple 219 LEDs from Illumination Supply - he has a link for "Nichia LED's" where he lists all of the options.

Will


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## mrradlos (May 10, 2012)

Lux-RC said:


> just tested today, I got a few different tiples
> 
> .....
> 
> PS waiting when the rain will stop to make some beamshots in the trees



Now, stop that rain!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for sharing!

Can you really run the Nichia 219 334 engines in regulation from a single 18650?


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## Lux-RC (May 10, 2012)

mrradlos said:


> Can you really run the Nichia 219 334 engines in regulation from a single 18650?



it depends what you mean saying "regulation". Just to illustrate my question, whiche one(s) are "regulated"?


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## psychbeat (May 10, 2012)

Thanks for doing & posting these tests!

I'd love to see the HiCRI XP-G tested as well if possible. 

I'm guessing it's closer in flux to the 219hiCRI.


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## Obijuan Kenobe (May 10, 2012)

When looked at without any other LED light source for comparison, I think the high CRI XPG at 3000K does alright. If you like that tint range, obviously there's nothing to say.

However, if you are looking to get close to a 5000-5500K (rough tint range of daylight sun), the Nichia 219 must be miles ahead. Even the Nichia 119 that McGizmo runs is miles ahead in this regard.

I have let two XPG 3000K light go because even if it's 'high CRI', it is high CRI at that tint. Again, it's this whole high CRI issue rearing it's ugly head. It can be especially misleading in these tint ranges outside the range of tints the sun produces throughout the day. 

The Nichia 119 at 4750K is like 10AM or 3PM sunlight, with great color rendition. I am not sure if the sun ever enters the 3000K range except during sunrise and sunset. It's a pretty color, and way better than 6500K in my opinion...but first I need something between 4500K and 5500K...then I would prefer the best color rendition available.

obi


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## Glenn7 (May 11, 2012)

They are all regulated, just some better than others? Would be my guess.


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## mrradlos (May 11, 2012)

Lux-RC said:


> it depends what you mean saying "regulation". Just to illustrate my question, whiche one(s) are "regulated"?



A,B,C are regulated for me! If C is what you get with your Nichia 219 triples and a single 18650, then I'm sure I could not see any change in output with my eyes :thumbsup:


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## wquiles (May 11, 2012)

mrradlos said:


> A,B,C are regulated for me! If C is what you get with your Nichia 219 triples and a single 18650, then I'm sure I could not see any change in output with my eyes :thumbsup:


+1

Regulation is nice, but it is also WAY over-stated. No single person would detect differences between A, B, nor C. Only a calibrated instrument could. There has been many posts here in the forums in the last 7 years where it has been shown objectively that you need more than a 10-15% change (maybe it was even higher) in light output before you could notice. Human eyes are NOT that sensitive to those small changes.

Will


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## psychbeat (May 11, 2012)

Hmm I'm confused- why would a 219 be regulated any differently than an XPG?
Or is the VF way higher on the 219 &/or more sensitive to heat&current?


Bak on topic tho- I'd still like to see lux and flux of a Qbin 90CRI xpg vs 92CRI 219


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## Lux-RC (May 11, 2012)

psychbeat said:


> Bak on topic tho- I'd still like to see lux and flux of a Qbin 90CRI xpg vs 92CRI 219



yes, this is already done. I post some pics/ratings right after I return from the trees tonight.


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## psychbeat (May 11, 2012)

^^^ripping! Thanks man it's MUCH appreciated. 

Yay CPF!!


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## Lux-RC (May 11, 2012)

just returned from the trees (it's 3:00 AM here). 11 makeups were captured (all triples, CARCLO 10507 lens, all driven with 1.5 amp).

DOWNLOAD THE PICTURE (1200 x 1072, it's TOO large to post it here)

LIST:
#1 CREE XP-E R3 WD0 Cool White
#2 CREE XP-E R3 4D0 Outdoor White
#3 CREE XP-G U1 Q3 ra90 HI CRI 3000K CCT 
#4 CREE XP-G Q5 3000K CCT Warm White
#5 CREE XP-G R5 1C0 6500K CCT Cool White
#6 CREE XP-G R4 4D0 4500K CCT Outdoor White
#7 CREE XT-E R5 6500K CCT Cool White
#8 CREE XT-E 3000K CCT Warm White
#9 NICHIA 219 R10 L SW45 ra92 HI CRI 4500K CCT Neutral White
#10 NICHIA 219 5000K CCT Neutral White
#10 SAMSUNG 3535 5000K CCT Neutral White

CAMERA SETTINGS:
NIKON D60 AF-S NIKKOR 18mm 
ISO 100
W/B DIRECT SUNLIGHT 0:0
5 sec F4.2


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## Moddoo (May 11, 2012)

Excellent work as usual Serge.

Thank You.


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## THE_dAY (May 11, 2012)

Lux-RC, thanks a bunch for all your hard work there, very much appreciated!

The XPE R3 4D0 (Outdoor) LED seems to hold its own in color rendering compared to the awesome 219 HCRI.


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## psychbeat (May 12, 2012)

Wow- that's one of the best comparisons EVER!
Up there with the Russian tunnel. 
Thanks again. 

The XT-E does appear to throw a tad better than the XP-G 
I'm surprised the 219 is as floody as it is considering the slightly narrower viewing angle. 

Can't really go wrong with any of these!


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## Canuke (May 12, 2012)

psychbeat said:


> Wow- that's one of the best comparisons EVER!
> Up there with the Russian tunnel.
> Thanks again.
> 
> ...



That cool white XT-E has by far the worst color shift over viewing angle. Look at the yellow fringe on its hotspot, none of the other emitters show anything that bad. It confirms what I just read about a hour ago about someone's Mag mod using XT-E's.


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## The_Driver (May 12, 2012)

Lux-RC said:


> just returned from the trees (it's 3:00 AM here). 11 makeups were captured (all triples, CARCLO 10507 lens, all driven with 1.5 amp).
> 
> DOWNLOAD THE PICTURE (1200 x 1072, it's TOO large to post it here)
> 
> ...



Very nice beamshots, thanks for making them and posting them here 

Luckily I bought some of the Nichia's, the beamshots show that they are very nice indeed


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## csshih (May 12, 2012)

nice!

Craig


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## mvyrmnd (May 12, 2012)

I may have to buy a 219 based L334 to retrofit into my Tri-EDC....


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## mvyrmnd (May 12, 2012)

Canuke said:


> That cool white XT-E has by far the worst color shift over viewing angle. Look at the yellow fringe on its hotspot, none of the other emitters show anything that bad. It confirms what I just read about a hour ago about someone's Mag mod using XT-E's.



The XT-E Warm isn't much better....


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## wquiles (May 12, 2012)

Moddoo said:


> Excellent work as usual Serge.
> 
> Thank You.


+1

Outstanding work Serge 

Will


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## ites (May 12, 2012)

Lux-RC said:


> just returned from the trees (it's 3:00 AM here). 11 makeups were captured (all triples, CARCLO 10507 lens, all driven with 1.5 amp).
> 
> DOWNLOAD THE PICTURE (1200 x 1072, it's TOO large to post it here)


Very interesting! What do you think when you are looking at pictures with XP-E 4D0, XP-G 4D0 and Nichia HiCRI?


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## Lux-RC (May 12, 2012)

I double-checked the bins, according to the box stickers both XP-E and XP-G are 4D0. 
I may presume that XP-E's spectrum shift is caused by the overdrive. 1.5 amps is far beyond its official limits.


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## qwertyydude (May 13, 2012)

Wow the XT-E really does have a color shift across the beam. Makes my XM-L look downright normal.

And the 219 does look great with its neutral white. My 90 CRI warm XP-G just looks a bit too warm. Warmer even than my xenon incan module.


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## mrradlos (May 14, 2012)

Lux-RC

Thank you very much for your excellent work - I think these fotos will help a lot of people make their decision. There are lot of nice LEDs to chose from XP-G and Nichia 219 - but the samsung is good too.


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## Glenn7 (May 14, 2012)

Do those Samsung 3535 Led's come in 5700 or 6000k?? because they look like a good balance between flood and throw (XP-E & XP-G)


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## Glenn7 (May 22, 2012)

Well I'm proud to say I killed another thread..... :0(


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## Lux-RC (May 23, 2012)

Glenn7 said:


> Do those Samsung 3535 Led's come in 5700 or 6000k?? because they look like a good balance between flood and throw (XP-E & XP-G)



nope, Samsung offers only neutral and warm color 3535's.

Correct, they're not just more bright than CREE's R4 but due to smaller die size provide more throw.


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## orbital (May 23, 2012)

Lux-RC said:


> nope, Samsung offers only neutral and warm color 3535's.
> 
> Correct, they're not just more bright than CREE's R4 but due to smaller die size provide more throw.



I have a Samsung 3535 and its truly a cooler tint, 6000~6250+K easy.
Also, the circular emitter itself, looks minutely larger (like .2mm) than the xp-g by eye,,,,its soo fractionally close though.

The beam characteristic is like a hybrid between an xp-g & xp-e, 
there is no doughnut aspect when testing a couple different reflectors.

*The Samsung 3535 is a pleasant surprise to say the least..*

edit to add pic:
I took efforts to get the emitters on the same line, because the 3535 light has a deeper reflector
(same tint filters on both)




_________________________3535^_____________________________________________________xp-g^____________________


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## Glenn7 (May 23, 2012)

Thank you for the replies  It was a help.


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## kristine (May 23, 2012)

Hi I am just new in this thread. In my case, I would prefer the 219 because of it's high CRI, more lumens, and neutral tint. But I guess we all have different opinion on this.


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## Lux-RC (May 23, 2012)

I rely on the official whitepaper from samsung -> http://samsungled.com/eng/product/prdHighPower.asp

6000K is not listed there. They same was provided my a local representative.


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## orbital (May 23, 2012)

^

Really hope your not implying I don't know my tints or temperatures.

I compared my Samsung to my WC tint R3 xp-e ,,, the Samsung was slightly bluer.
{WC is well over 6000K}

See post #1074 http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?217252-P60-sized-led-drop-ins-(part-3)/page36&
The reason I said *Anyone spare a light amber filter?* is because it was very cool cool tint.
Beamshot is of the Samsung, of course.

Trust me, I wish it was more neutral out of the box, then it could have saved me putting a filter on it.


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## Glenn7 (May 23, 2012)

Hmmm something is strange here maybe you got a rogue Samsung because if you look in lux-rc's beam shots there is no comparison to the xpe in color 3535 is definitely warmer http://www.quazzle.com/temp/beamshots-may-2012.jpg but throw is the same.


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## psychbeat (May 30, 2012)

Wow- I just received a Malkoff m61-219 this AM and am digging the tint for sure. 

Reminds of a 4A XML a bit but better. 

The outer ring in the beam is only noticeable from about a foot away. 

I do prefer this over the 90cri XPG although ideally the 219 could be a hair warmer. 

Nichia is KILLING IT !!!
Cree & Phlatlight are going to have to step it up CRI-wise.


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## clg0159 (Jun 3, 2012)

Well, I would prefer a tint in between the two actually. If I had to choose though it would be the 3000K XP-G. It just looks better to me outdoors which is where my lights see the most use.


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## psychbeat (Jun 3, 2012)

clg0159 said:


> Well, I would prefer a tint in between the two actually. If I had to choose though it would be the 3000K XP-G. It just looks better to me outdoors which is where my lights see the most use.



Yah I was thinking the same thing though I haven't used the 219 outside 
much yet & my hiCRI xpg light is with a friend ATM. 
The 219s tint is actually between a 4A & 4C XML - those are the closest I have seen to it. 

My bike headlamp will soon have a triple 219 w narrow optic & 2 bare 
XPG hiCRI for flood which should be the best of both!!


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## djozz (Jun 11, 2012)

I modded a cheap dx 16340 light with the 219 (it runs at 700 mA), and went camping with it this weekend, and I must say: this is the most pleasant outdoor light I have ever seen. Actually, it's a whole new experience; i was ether used to the old incans, rather yellow but I never knew better, or i used the cool white led lights that kills every colour in nature. This light shows up the greens, reds and browns so vividly as I have never seen from an artificial (outdoor) light before, and still does justice to the blue colours.

Even compared to my quark mini high CRI (xpg 85+CRI, 3000k) I prefer the 219 Nichia by far!
djozz


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## arek98 (Jun 11, 2012)

IMO, unless someone particularity likes yellow tint, high CRI needs to be in 5000K-5500K range to make sense. This is about daylight CCT. 

When calculating CRI result is compared to 100 CRI perfect light sources but the problem is that CCT is adjusted to CCT of light being tested. I.e., if we assume that our perfect light is 100 CRI and 5500K and tested one is 3000K then comparison is between how colors are rendered by tested 3000K light and color rendering by our perfect source AFTER ADJUSTMENT to 3000K.

This is known shortcoming of CRI and this is why newer methods are in development. One of them is CQS (Color Quality Scale).


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## Shadowww (Jun 11, 2012)

I prefer 4500K Nichia, it's way closer to sun's 5000-6500K range than 3000K XP-G (which looks like horrible ill-red incan bulbs).


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## bshanahan14rulz (Jun 14, 2012)

I like the nichia. 4500k is as warm as I need. I wouldn't mind warmer, but only for the warm fuzzy feel-good feeling of warm light 

I will say that I haven't tried any of Cree's 90+CRI LEDs yet, although I still do like my Cree XR Q3 5c.


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## LEDAdd1ct (Jun 14, 2012)

The XR-E Q3 5C is a sweet LED, and one of my very favorites!


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## psychbeat (Jun 14, 2012)

LEDAdd1ct said:


> The XR-E Q3 5C is a sweet LED, and one of my very favorites!



Yah I got my GF a cheap Fireworm floody headlamp that has one. 

Super nice!

Still prefer the 219 I think but I do like the Warner tints for comfort


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## moozooh (Jul 12, 2012)

Great comparison shots, they really made me appreciate the 219's marvelous peachy neutral tint. Thanks a lot! Any chance of similar shots done with Luxeon Rebels?


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## Pöbel (Jul 17, 2012)

Absolutely awesome fotos. Many thanks for making these.

The fotos show exactly what i feel. I had a HighCRI XP-G in my EDC. It was nice, but just too yellow. I moved to a neutral instead. Now comes the Nichia. Yes, could be brighter - but the colors, the tint, this is just such a beautiful LED. I absolutely love it outdoors, the greens, the browns, the reds, grey is grey and my hand looks like a real human hand, not the hand of Hulk. AWESOME!


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## phips (Jul 29, 2012)

Yes, super great comparison Lux-RC!
Now I really need a light with a Nichia Led (perhabs Zebralight might offer a nice headlamp in the future?).
Concerning your measurements: do you think the Nichia could perform better when driven within its specifications?
(Nichia rates it up to 1.5A constant and 2A pulsed.)


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## jorn (Jul 29, 2012)

I like the nichia, then the rebel, then the xp-g. Tint is better and "cleaner".






zebra h51fc with a hi cri rebel, modded worm with a nichia 219, preon 2 hi cri xp-g.


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## RichLee (Jul 29, 2012)

Glenn7 said:


> They are all regulated, just some better than others? Would be my guess.



Impressive collection you have there! Nice beam shots too.


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## phips (Aug 2, 2012)

phips said:


> Concerning your measurements: do you think the Nichia could perform better when driven within its specifications?
> (Nichia rates it up to 1.5A constant and 2A pulsed.)


To answer my own question:
Looking at the spec sheet, there is forward current vs luminous flux graph.
Between 1.5A and 2A there is no drop or anything, so I assume the efficiency measured by Lux-RC is also accurate for lower currents.

Nonetheless I ordered a custom headlamp (my first... dorkiness here I come) with the Nichia emitter


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## Sparky's Magic (Aug 2, 2012)

My triple from Wright Bros. (Matteus) is a superb 3x219 Nichia. Driven at 4.5A it has great flood, color rendition and the tint is gorgeous - So good, in fact, that my search for the best tint (for me) is over! :twothumbs


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## tobrien (Apr 6, 2013)

sorry to bump this thread, but i found it _incredibly_ informative and helpful. thanks guys!


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## Anders Hoveland (Mar 4, 2015)

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I had to brag.

I am rather partial to my Oslon SSL 4000K emitters. 90 CRI minimum, *96* CRI _typical_. 
That is really cutting edge, there's not many other LED emitters with a CRI that high. But I didn't just get these for the color rendering. It has a better ratio of longer azure blue wavelengths to shorter blue wavelengths than some of the other emitters that have similarly high CRI ratings. Ah, that elusive 485-490nm part of the spectrum, so beautiful. Ever seen a *488nm* DPSS laser beam?

I was going to get it in 4500K, but I plan to use these emitters for something special, they are not going to be standing alone, so I did not want that blue spike in the spectrum to be too big. I also got a really good price on the 4000K.

These emitters put the Nichia 219 and Nichia 083 to shame. Okay, maybe not quite _to shame_, but the spectral graph does look like a modest improvement, comparing the two.


I do also have a few Yuji violet-emitter ≥97 CRI LEDs (amazing quality of light, doesn't seem like "LED" light at all) but unfortunately I have a condition that makes me sensitive to violet wavelengths (skin feels sore and aching eyes), and I intend to use these for room lighting, so the violet-emitter approach was not really compatible with me.


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## archimedes (Mar 4, 2015)

Anders Hoveland said:


> Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I had to brag.
> 
> I am rather partial to my Oslon SSL 4000K emitters. 90 CRI minimum, *96* CRI _typical_.
> That is really cutting edge, there's not many other LED emitters with a CRI that high....
> ...



I don't know how many flashlights are currently using Osram emitters, but I have one with an Oslon SSL150 (3500K) and agree that these are special ...


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## tobrien (Mar 4, 2015)

Anders Hoveland said:


> Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I had to brag.
> 
> I am rather partial to my Oslon SSL 4000K emitters. 90 CRI minimum, *96* CRI _typical_.
> That is really cutting edge, there's not many other LED emitters with a CRI that high. But I didn't just get these for the color rendering. It has a better ratio of longer azure blue wavelengths to shorter blue wavelengths than some of the other emitters that have similarly high CRI ratings. Ah, that elusive 485-490nm part of the spectrum, so beautiful. Ever seen a *488nm* DPSS laser beam?
> ...



that is awesome! I've never heard of Yuji but dang


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## Anders Hoveland (Mar 4, 2015)

The Oslon SSL150 family also has very high efficiency for a high CRI LED, 87 lumens per Watt at 3000K, 97-121 lumens per watt for the 4000K.
They were really focusing on trying to achieve both high CRI _and _high efficiency here. Comparing the spectrum to some other really high CRI LEDs, it looks like the Oslon SSL150 sacrificed just a little of the deep red wavelengths. That probably is one of the reasons for the higher efficiency. The red phosphor they are using seems to be centered on around 630nm. What is amazing is that it is still able to achieve 96 CRI without quite as much of the deep red as some of the other really high CRI LEDs have.


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## recDNA (Mar 4, 2015)

Anders Hoveland said:


> The Oslon SSL150 family also has very high efficiency for a high CRI LED, 87 lumens per Watt at 3000K, 97-121 lumens per watt for the 4000K.
> They were really focusing on trying to achieve both high CRI _and _high efficiency here. Comparing the spectrum to some other really high CRI LEDs, it looks like the Oslon SSL150 sacrificed just a little of the deep red wavelengths. That probably is one of the reasons for the higher efficiency. The red phosphor they are using seems to be centered on around 630nm. What is amazing is that it is still able to achieve 96 CRI without quite as much of the deep red as some of the other really high CRI LEDs have.


Are any of the Oslons used in flashlights?


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## archimedes (Mar 5, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Are any of the Oslons used in flashlights?





archimedes said:


> I don't know how many flashlights are currently using Osram emitters, but I have one with an Oslon SSL150 (3500K) and agree that these are special ...



Mine is in a custom Spyglass ....


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## tobrien (Mar 5, 2015)

question: is Oslan related to Osram?


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## recDNA (Mar 5, 2015)

Osram makes it


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## AndyF (Mar 5, 2015)

Anders Hoveland said:


> Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I had to brag.
> 
> I am rather partial to my Oslon SSL 4000K emitters. 90 CRI minimum, *96* CRI _typical_.
> That is really cutting edge, there's not many other LED emitters with a CRI that high. But I didn't just get these for the color rendering. It has a better ratio of longer azure blue wavelengths to shorter blue wavelengths than some of the other emitters that have similarly high CRI ratings. Ah, that elusive 485-490nm part of the spectrum, so beautiful. Ever seen a *488nm* DPSS laser beam?
> ...



I agree with you, I really like this emitter!.

I have a DatiLED module in my Aleph mule and a triple P60 drop-in in a Malkoff MD2 host. 


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## tobrien (Mar 5, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Osram makes it



ohh okay. thank you!


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## si638 (Mar 7, 2015)

There is new LED bulbs made in Glass, not plastic, looks exactly lime incandescence.


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## Anders Hoveland (Mar 10, 2015)

Yes, the Oslon SSL150 4000K high CRI has an excellent color tint, and fairly excellent quality of light. Everything is a colorful, plenty enough for displaying artwork, but I did notice the colors seemed just a tiny bit less saturated (greyish) than some other high CRI LEDs. I was thinking maybe they did not get the phosphors exactly right, but interestingly I noticed the same type of thing when I went back into my room lit by an incandescent bulb. I think the greater presence of cyan wavelengths is responsible, since it has overlap with all 3 human color receptors to some extent (that is the reason why cyan appears a little whitish). I also noticed the same type of phenomena experimenting with combining different color LEDs to make white light, when I added a 495nm cyan emitter. Again, the color rendering of the Oslon definitely could not be described as "greyish", this is just a sign that it more closely imitates "natural light", and this effect is very subtle.

As for how the light "feels", it feels somewhere between a regular high CRI (94-95) LED and natural sunlight. The light seems about 40 percent "softer" than a regular 80CRI LED at 4000K. I mean sometimes when things are illuminated under white LED light everything appears a little "glittering" and hard to focus, you can get "LED eye" (at least some people experience this). 

The red color rendering is perfectly fine, but if you pay very close attention you can see that some red pigments are not _quite_ as saturated deep red as they are under natural light. Again, very subtle.
I'm sure they could have achieved 97 CRI typical rating with this LED if they had chosen to sacrifice some efficiency using a slightly deeper red phosphor.

I am not sure, but the color temperature seemed like it might have been just slightly more than 4000K, but maybe this was just because I was in a darkened room and using only one emitter (the Kruithof Curve effect).

The Oslon emitter does have a smaller footprint than Cree. Soldering the emitter to the heat pad is challenging, and I ruined several heat pads and a few emitters that got too much solder on them. It takes some practice.


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## recDNA (Mar 10, 2015)

Is the old xpg 3000k "hi cri" led really 90+ cri? Since finding that most 219b are really sub 90 cri I am suspicious of all claims until measured by someone here I trust.


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## Littlelantern (Mar 10, 2015)

I rely on my trusted spark sd6 headlamp modded with xml -2 3000k warm white,it does a perfect job for my barbecuing job and the xml 3000k shows clearly the true color of the burning charcoal .


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## recDNA (Mar 10, 2015)

That's hot!


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## Anders Hoveland (Mar 10, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Is the old xpg 3000k "hi cri" led really 90+ cri? Since finding that most 219b are really sub 90 cri I am suspicious of all claims until measured by someone here I trust.


You may have a point there. "95 CRI typical" often means it is more like 94, in actuality.
It can be difficult to pin down the CRI of a light source to a _precise_ value. That is why the more reputable manufacturers state "90CRI minimum, 95CRI typical".
They know roughly what the CRI is, within a certain range, but it can be difficult to be sure exactly. Theoretically the CRI could be even more than the "typical" value, though that is probably unlikely. The manufacturer would likely err on the side of the higher value.

However, the stated CRI values are still useful, for comparing LEDs from different manufacturers against each other. If you have seen an LED rated "95CRI" and you are thinking about getting another LED with the same rating, at least you know what you are going to get.
I actually checked the spectral graphs in the datasheets of different high (>94) CRI rated LEDs, and the graph for the Oslon SSL150 appeared to compare favorably.

Another thing to consider is that CRI only tries to quantify _color rendering_. Even if the color rendering index was perfect, it still would not really tell you exactly how close the spectrum was to natural light. 95 CRI does not mean the light source is 95% like natural light.


Another thing I wanted to mention, although the regular color rendering index does not really take into account red saturation as much it is probably should, using a red phosphor that is not really as deep red as it should be can still throw off the CRI somewhat, because then a larger proportion of orange wavelengths are added than would be found in an ideal black-body curve. Then to compensate for this, because it would throw off the color tint, there has to be a slightly lower ratio of yellow wavelengths. So using a less-than-ideal red phosphor can lead to throwing off the color rendering in the middle of the spectrum to some degree. This is not a huge effect, but it does start to become a factor when dealing with very high (95+) CRI spectrums.


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## recDNA (Mar 10, 2015)

Anybody measure the cri of the supposedly 90+ xpg 3000k? No offense but I don't care about the oslon since none of the flashlights I would consider offer it. I never even heard of a modder offering it. No threads here on triple oslon mods. LOL


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## Anders Hoveland (Mar 10, 2015)

recDNA said:


> Anybody measure the cri of the supposedly 90+ xpg 3000k?


That is a good question. I am assuming it is probably about 91-93 CRI. I cannot find a spectral graph for that family in the 90+ CRI version.
I know what Cree TrueWhite looks like, and the specs say that is about 92 CRI. Basically the overall color rendering is good, but the greens and reds could be a little more saturated, and the cyan coverage is not good. And of course, blue colored objects tend to be rendered a very royal blue, but that is common amongst all but the very highest CRI LEDs.

The 96CRI Oslon 4000K is no harsher on the eyes than a 90CRI 3000K LED emitter of the type used in many flashlights. After you experience the higher quality of light, you might come to prefer a higher color temperature. For me, generally the only reason I prefer lower color temperatures is because I am trying to minimize the harshness on my eyes.

More cyan-azure phosphor coverage in the spectrum means the blue spike does not need to be quite as high. The shorter blue wavelengths tend to be harsher on the eyes (in my subjective opinion).


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## recDNA (Mar 10, 2015)

BTW, After saying I could care less about Oslon (since I never see it) a flashlight turns up in the Mall with an Oslon installed. Oops. Only 120 lumen per amp though.


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## Anders Hoveland (Mar 10, 2015)

recDNA said:


> BTW, After saying I could care less about Oslon (since I never see it) a flashlight turns up in the Mall with an Oslon installed. Oops. Only 120 lumen per amp though.


Not all the emitters in the Oslon SSL 150 family are super high CRI. The LCW CRDP.EC has an "83 CRI typical" rating (as the Osram product sheet phrases it, it has an "ideal balance of CRI and luminous flux").* 
*


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