# ROP or 2C 5761?



## SuRgE (Nov 24, 2007)

I'm a newbie to Mag Mods and have recently purchased a few fine examples from FiveMega (12AA running Osram 62138, FM85 WA1185, and the 8AA running the WA1164). I have put together my own high powered 5C Mag WA1185 based on what I have been learning from these awesome CPF threads. Now, I have built a smaller "sleeper" version using a 2C host.

My question is; How come there is such a huge following for the "ROP" when it appears that a 2C using 2xC li-ons powering a Philips 5761 is smaller , more powerful, and easier to build? Mine seems to me to be more powerful than my M*g 85! 

I am not trying to knock the ROP. When I was searching CPF for info to build one of the smallest brightest Mags; the Philips 5761 2C appeared to be the way to go. But there is way more talk of the ROP and I was curious why.

I am now thinking of putting together a ROP but will I be disapointed when comparing it to my 5761?

Also, is there a nickname for a 2C 5761?

You all have been an invaluable source for me and have allowed me to now own some of the brightest and nicest looking M*gs around.:twothumbs

THanks All


----------



## eshishlo (Nov 24, 2007)

There is a LE ROP which uses the 2c mag format as well as Lithium Ion batteries. I think that the reason that the ROP was so popular in the first place, is because the Pelican bulb fit into the stock holder. I belive that the Philips 5761 is a bi-pin bulb and requires a special holder. These are now easier to obtain than before. Therefore, we may see a shift in the bulb choices soon.


----------



## Pokerstud (Nov 25, 2007)

SuRgE said:


> I'm a newbie to Mag Mods and have recently purchased a few fine examples from FiveMega (12AA running Osram 62138, FM85 WA1185, and the 8AA running the WA1164). I have put together my own high powered 5C Mag WA1185 based on what I have been learning from these awesome CPF threads. Now, I have built a smaller "sleeper" version using a 2C host.
> 
> My question is; How come there is such a huge following for the "ROP" when it appears that a 2C using 2xC li-ons powering a Philips 5761 is smaller , more powerful, and easier to build? Mine seems to me to be more powerful than my M*g 85!
> 
> ...




The ROP has such a big following, IMHO, because it is the "grandfather" of the incan Mag mod, using the Pelican 3854 lamp, (* R*oar *O*f the *P*elican )especially the HOLA, which is 6V-24W, at about 600 lumens ( lumen claims have varied ). The original ROP used a 4D Mag with 6 sub C batts. The bulb is a standard PR based lamp, just like the stock Mag bulbs, therefore it was easy to drop in and go, and still is. It is, and has been, the stepping stone to the evolution of what we see today.

Increased interest for more and more horsepower has led to the bi-pin to PR socket (FM ), total switch replacements (KIU ), resistance fixes, battery configurations, Mag body ID boring, scientific bulb testing, etc. etc. 

You have a fine collection of horsepower already. The ROP would be the "dimmest" of them all in your listed collection, but I know a lot of people with dozens of lights 8-10x brighter, and they still carry a ROP in their collection.

*LuxLuthor's most powerful Mag mod list:*
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177171


----------



## KevinL (Nov 25, 2007)

Little bit of history.. 

The ROP was an answer to a problem of converting bipin bulbs to standard holders. We had a supply shortage of 'potted' bulbs, which were bipins potted in high temp ceramic and inserted into a standard PR base. 

Bi-pin conversion options were few, rare and far between.

I would also like to think that the ROP lithium edition (2x18650 in 2C Mag) was either directly or indirectly responsible for creating a market for C-sized lithium ions: which simply did not exist at all at the time the ROP was created. 

It grew in popularity because it was also one of the easiest (at the time) options to build for serious lumens at reasonable cost. It has never been the brightest, in fact when it was concieved, the WA1185 was already brighter and readily available. I had my 3D Mag with 1185 before the ROP. But as many have called it, it is the gateway to something brighter. 

We have come a long way since 2005. Today bipin options are easily and readily available. My preference is for AW's softstart/variable brightness PWM dimmer integrated with a bipin base for the bulb. Today we have far more options than we used to have. And that's a Good Thing(tm)! No offence taken. The ROP has outlasted the problems it was designed to solve. 

Users who want a bit more brightness would indeed be better served by the Philips bulb. It's a good bulb, but only discovered recently. It is also more demanding on the batteries. If yours can keep up, then go for it by all means. When my life settles down I will have a chance to try this bulb too and I'm looking forward to it


----------



## jimjones3630 (Nov 25, 2007)

As mentioned ease of application. Add bulb turning The ROP into a quick mod with more noticable lumen output. The 5761 a bi-pin bulb can almost be just as quikly pressed into service by dropping in a bi-pin adaptor, aluminum reflector, glass lens. Differences in opinon widespread and not withstanding I have used plastic reflectors with glass lens for ROPs to my satisfaction.

A 5761 mated to the circuit with optimal power regulation, I like NTC's for this job, output more lumens is brighter side by side than ROP or 1185 some folks think by several 100 lumens.


----------



## jimjones3630 (Nov 25, 2007)

With the dawning of light, recognition higher amp cells, emoli and A123 battery are slowly coming into use with flashlight mods. Since AW's protected Li c cells would trip at 5.5A or so and given the 5761 current popularity lead to AW's driver creation. Providing a soft start solution with some voltage regulation enough so to work with the 5761

A popular NTC and AW's driver with 2xemoli cells, open volt of 8.4, both have about the same percent of limiting voltage to 6.9-7.1v underload of the 5761 making it a viable option again with ease of mod.


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 25, 2007)

I knew I could depend on you all. It clears everything up.

Thanks again for the info.


----------



## BigusLightus (Nov 25, 2007)

My 6D ROP will soon be a 6D 5761. I'm worried that the smaller batteries can't hang for more than short periods of time when powering the 5761. Then its back to the charger again...


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 26, 2007)

BigusLightus said:


> My 6D ROP will soon be a 6D 5761. I'm worried that the smaller batteries can't hang for more than short periods of time when powering the 5761. Then its back to the charger again...


 
Great!:twothumbs Another 5761 user. I love mine and can't wait to create more C & D Mags using this bulb. Draws more amps than a WA1185, but its a brighter setup to my eyes.


----------



## Pokerstud (Nov 27, 2007)

Is the 5.5A draw on the 5761 is a bit taxing for a stock Mag switch? I use a stock switch on a ROP, at 4.1A.


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 27, 2007)

I haven't had any problems; but I'm not running the light no more than 5-10 minutes at a time. Sorry, I'm a newbie to Mag mods. But, this light is awesome. Guys at my work love it and want one too. I think its the ultimate sleeper. Maybe call it the US61 (Utilmate Sleeper 5761):naughty:

According to LuxLuthor's graphs; its putting out 1500-1900 Lumens at 7.6-7.9 volts. :twothumbs


----------



## jimjones3630 (Nov 27, 2007)

That is an old debate how many amps can mag switch tolerate before melting or something bad happening. Recall the discussion during the USL project.

One of my 5761 had only bi-pin drop in adaptor and worked great. What can happen is like any bulb all bubs have their maximun operating specs. Going over those specs will can a flashed bulb. Have had sereral that started life as 5761 but due to over moding, decreasing too much resistance they instan-flashed. 

Getting back to topic, up to and including 10A and some oldtimers here say even over 10A a "stock switch" can handle. I know stock switch can do 5.7A no problem. The issue with amps is really not amps but resistance in your curcit. the less resistance, the less heat created. 

Mods with 100w bulbs I have had to use kiu socket because bi=pin Gy6.35 were not available unless you made them yourself. That is about to change in the near, have heard, future. And the developer of them has tested them in conjunction with "stock" mag switchs and the reports are very favorable. NO melting of switch.

Want a step forward having the ability to use 100w bulbs with a drop in bipin adaptor. 

jim



Pokerstud said:


> Is the 5.5A draw on the 5761 is a bit taxing for a stock Mag switch? I use a stock switch on a ROP, at 4.1A.


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 27, 2007)

jimjones3630 said:


> Mods with 100w bulbs I have had to use kiu socket because bi=pin Gy6.35 were not available unless you made them yourself. That is about to change in the near, have heard, future. And the developer of them has tested them in conjunction with "stock" mag switchs and the reports are very favorable. NO melting of switch.
> 
> Want a step forward having the ability to use 100w bulbs with a drop in bipin adaptor.
> 
> jim


 
Ohhhhh can't wait!:thumbsup: Been wondering why I haven't seen the easily available 100 watt sockets!

I do notice that many times I have to soft press the switch twice to get the light on. Anyone have a comment on that? I would think its the amp draw of the 5761. Again, newbie learning as I go!


----------



## jimjones3630 (Nov 28, 2007)

Previously mentioned if using AW C cells might be the protection circuit kicking in. You wrote have a 2C host are you using protected 
cells. My first 5761 used unprotected 2600mah 18650, with no problems.

Think someone already answered your question will you be disapointed with ROP vs 5761. 5761 when properly moded output more than 1185, 1166 which you already have.

Unless you have a certain application in mind, why not step up to 50-100w mods? the way I learn most times is by doing and figuring out mistakes latter. My last 250wer fried the reflector and now have rediscovered all the reasearch that has already been done here on high end reflector coating.
jim



SuRgE said:


> Ohhhhh can't wait!:thumbsup: Been wondering why I haven't seen the easily available 100 watt sockets!
> 
> I do notice that many times I have to soft press the switch twice to get the light on. Anyone have a comment on that? I would think its the amp draw of the 5761. Again, newbie learning as I go!


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 28, 2007)

JimJones,

Yes, I'm using protected AW Cs. I believe your right about the protection circuit. I read somewhere about having to double switch but can't find the thread. Its not that big of a deal to me I was just wondering why it was doing it.

I actually already have a 100 watter in my 12AA Osram 62138. But that light is quite a bit larger than my 2C. Maybe I'll try some unprotected cells to see if that changes it. I have a nice charger, so I can preset the voltage I need.

250W, whooaaa! I suppose that will probally be around the corner for me.

Thanks for the info.


----------



## jimjones3630 (Nov 28, 2007)

Your welcome,

62138 is a very beautiful white white light at 13vbulb. Even at 12v I like it over anyother 100w bulb. Plus get to run 64610 50w as the LOLA. I run mine with 3x emoli for 12.6vbat, and 12vbulb. Think my next will be 4xA123=14.4vbat to get the 62138 to shine.

jim



SuRgE said:


> JimJones,
> 
> Yes, I'm using protected AW Cs. I believe your right about the protection circuit. I read somewhere about having to double switch but can't find the thread. Its not that big of a deal to me I was just wondering why it was doing it.
> 
> ...


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 30, 2007)

My 5761 5c is up and running; Sweet with no double clicking!:thumbsup:

FM's 10.5mm cammed relfector, Boro lens, FM brass bi-pin socket,and 5x1.2v Tenergy 5000 mah C cells ( charged to no more than 7.9 volts to prevent flashing.)

No problem running either of my 5761 with the stock switch assemblies but I do not run the lights for more than 2-3 minutes at a time. I only use them to spot things in the backyard or to light my path to the mailbox.

Both are brighter than my two Mag85s but not by much. I started with the WA1185s but I am now learning that the 5761 is more ideal for the C cell lights; especially if you cherrish the 5-6 cell dual function lights(torch/baton):devil:


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 30, 2007)

Sorry, double post.


----------



## KevinL (Nov 30, 2007)

:thumbsup: 

Congratulations 

Pix and beamshot!


----------



## Pokerstud (Nov 30, 2007)

SuRgE said:


> My 5761 5c is up and running; Sweet with no double clicking!:thumbsup:
> 
> FM's 10.5mm cammed relfector, Boro lens, FM brass bi-pin socket,and 5x1.2v Tenergy 5000 mah C cells ( charged to no more than 7.9 volts to prevent flashing.)
> 
> ...



Very nice. I'd like to see how long the stock switch holds out with the 5.5A lamp, then of course, at only 2-3 minutes a pop, it might be ok.


----------



## KevinL (Nov 30, 2007)

The real hardcore hotwire gurus sacrifice switches and bulbs along the way to find out 

You should have seen how many trashed reflectors, lights and bulbs littered the early days. I sacrificed many a ROP bulb in many different ways finding out what worked and what didn't. It was a great ride 

Then there were some who would pop $20 Luxeons like $2 bulbs.. (yes they used to cost that much)

Some are saying resistance-fixed switches are good for 10 amps. Methinks that once I get back to my workbench I am gonna find out 

PS: SAFETY FIRST: you can sacrifice as much gear as you want but not yourself. use appropriate protective gear!!


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 30, 2007)

I would think if others were burning out switches in their ROPs; than similar results would happen with my 5761 during extended use.:mecry:

I'll have to leave the testing of that to the more finacially blessed.

I recently was given instructions on how to post pics here on CPF. Hopefully I will be able to soon.


----------



## jimjones3630 (Nov 30, 2007)

May have mentioned of late frying reflectors with overdriven 24v 250w rated bulbs and I only went to 25v. The link below was started several years ago, just when I think I am on new ground

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/58806


----------



## SuRgE (Nov 30, 2007)

6D up and running with same setup (except 6x1.2v) as the 5C. Seems a bit brighter but thats probally just the bulb. 

I'll have to wait on my 6C conversion to 5761. My bi-pin sockets from FM don't fit the original housing:thinking:. They work with all the others (2C,5C,and the 6D). Oh well, I'll have to buy another C cell light and exchange the switch assemblies.

Anyone know the best and highest capacity Nimh D around? Currently using the Tenergy 10000mah Nimhs.


----------



## Pokerstud (Dec 1, 2007)

SuRgE said:


> 6D up and running with same setup (except 6x1.2v) as the 5C. Seems a bit brighter but thats probally just the bulb.
> 
> I'll have to wait on my 6C conversion to 5761. My bi-pin sockets from FM don't fit the original housing:thinking:. They work with all the others (2C,5C,and the 6D). Oh well, I'll have to buy another C cell light and exchange the switch assemblies.
> 
> Anyone know the best and highest capacity Nimh D around? Currently using the Tenergy 10000mah Nimhs.




SuRgE,

When I was running some 6D ROP's I used CTA 12000mAH batts from thomasdistributing.com:

http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...html?SP_id=&osCsid=uv4odhthgtdn6i5kds77ai47r3


----------



## SuRgE (Dec 2, 2007)

Thanks Pokerstud; I'll check em out!



Pokerstud said:


> SuRgE,
> 
> When I was running some 6D ROP's I used CTA 12000mAH batts from thomasdistributing.com:
> 
> http://thomasdistributing.com/shop/...html?SP_id=&osCsid=uv4odhthgtdn6i5kds77ai47r3


----------



## medicmerlynn (Dec 3, 2007)

wow... totally caught up in the craze now... i want i want i want... i just need to know what to buy.... surge gets a thanks from me for helping me with the info so far. i'm thinking about building the 5761 first since i already carry a 2c in the truck anyway... (3x 123 mod with the 6 cell bulb)... totally digging the idea of the Lion C cells... eh... not too big on the sub 30 minutes runtime but still think it would be fun as hell to have. next with be a 2D and 4D ROPS and a 3D m*g85.... damn... so little to do and so much time.... er... strike that... then reverse it....


----------



## SuRgE (Dec 3, 2007)

Runtime with the 3300mah should exceed 30 minutes; its the heat issue on the stock switch assembly that may be of concern.


----------



## bluecrow76 (Dec 3, 2007)

Please post some pics... I just finished my first quad [email protected] build and am now salivating to do an incan build... the quad puts out a lot of light... now I want to build something that THROWS!!!


----------



## SuRgE (Dec 5, 2007)

6C 5761 finally up and running!

Had to modify the older switch housing parts with the newer ones but now its good to go. Using 6x1.2v Tenergy C cells charged to 7.9 volts and this light is sweet! This makes my 4th Mag conversion to the Philips 5761 and all are working fine. Now I am experimenting with different reflectors to achieve the perfect Surefire type beam. My 6D is using one of FM's MOPs and its has the nicest beam of all my Mags. I have notice too that bulb to bulb variations exist in beam quality. But, get the right bulb, the right reflector, and PRESTO (instant super bright Surefire beam quality in a dual function light/baton Mag!) :twothumbs

I'm hooked!


----------



## LuxLuthor (Dec 5, 2007)

SuRgE, there is no problem (in my experience) with a stock mag switch and a 5761 since you are going to be under 6A, and relatively low voltage which you can verify on my testing chart for that bulb here.

The problem with the mag switch developing arc damage and failure (wait until your first time the contacts fuse and you can't turn it off  LOL!) is when you are operating above 7-8 Amps, worse with higher voltage setup.

That is why I swapped out the side switch with the 10A Judco switch on some of my hotwires. Another excellent alternative is to use AW's multi-level D Driver (more $$$), or the NTC, or JimmyM's PWM Driver.

Good Luck!


----------



## SuRgE (Dec 5, 2007)

Thanks Lux!

Your graph is too cool!:twothumbs


----------

