# Cree XLamp LEDs to Power SureFire Flashlights



## tigermoth2000 (Jan 4, 2007)

EDIT – 11 Jan. 07

Another Surefire - Cree Article (not much new info, Sorry!)

http://ledsmagazine.com/articles/news/4/1/15/1?rss=2.0



Hey, this maybe of interest to you guys!

http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1167920349046

(Sorry if its been posted, I couldn't find it)

Hi I’m Joe, I’ve been a member for a while and I think this is my first post! I just got the new P1D-CE, Awesome!

Great forum thanks!

Joe


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## alvdll (Jan 4, 2007)

At last! Early 2007? Didn't expected it to be so soon.


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## Norm (Jan 4, 2007)

Good find, and welcome to CPF.
I played around tonight and built a cree P4 mag, looked very bright inside focused well with the mag reflector but looked horrible when I took it outside, the tint looked a bit green and didn't show up folage well at all. I think I've become to used to my hotwires.


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## Martini (Jan 4, 2007)

Wow, that's a _lot_ faster than most of us were predicting. I'm seriously taken aback by this. The L1 and two other "mystery" models, how exciting. What a slap in the face to LumiLEDs to have SF going Cree already!


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## matrixshaman (Jan 4, 2007)

tigermoth2000 - welcome to CPF - good catch. I had emailed Surefire a couple months ago about this and just got a standard Non-answer about R&D looking into it or something along those lines. Glad to hear this! Since IMO one of SF's failings has been their Luxeon lottery of less than white LED bins this should help as the Cree's tend to be whiter with less of them out in the 'yuk' color field. SF had to know about the XR-E's for a lot longer than us so I'm not surprised at all they are going to use them. They'd be stupid not to use this 2x better technology.


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## N162E (Jan 4, 2007)

I'll let you all know how they look when I see them at the Shot Show next week. Well, at least I can Hope.


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## BentHeadTX (Jan 4, 2007)

Why would it surprise you that Surefire would wait a long time to use Cree? Back in July 2002, there were two production regulated Luxeon lights available the Arc LS (first on the block) and the Surefire L1. 

Running a P4 XRE as minimum bin will give them 80 lumens at the LED and around 60 lumens flying out of the front of the light at 350mA. Bump it up to 700mA and you get around 135/100 lumens. "Tactical" lighting starts at 60 lumens so they now have a LED light that will do that. The big bonus is the amount of sales they will get now that you don't have to have an E2E to do the same thing. 

Wonder if SF will now persue the 2AA rumored light from last year? "Tacti-cool without Tacti-crazy batteries".


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## Blindasabat (Jan 4, 2007)

Good to hear. I'm sure prototypes will be at Shot show. Now I wish I was going.


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## iNDiGLo (Jan 4, 2007)

I wonder which 3 models surefire will use the xr-e in. I hope its the U2, L4, and L2.


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## Flight_Deck (Jan 4, 2007)

Happy happy joy joy!


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## blake711 (Jan 4, 2007)

Well looks like that article answers a lot of questions cruising around lately. Hopefully they can get them to market in a decent fashion and not have serious flaws with them. I am hyped myself.

I wonder if that was release to early. Seeing as how I bet surefire wanted to annouce those new at the Shotshow and this comes just days beforehand.. Did someone screw up???


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## yaesumofo (Jan 4, 2007)

This is as predicted. 
SureFire is not a company to sit on their laurels. They have to push the envelope in order to maintain market leadership. 
I look forward to what ever SureFire comes to market with. I really hope they make an updated KL4 head with a Cree. I love the KL4 and own several. Oh boy more SureFire Lego's to play with SOON!! The only problem with an announcement of this nature is that it Kills SureFire Led based light sales until the new products come to market. 
yaesumofo


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## Size15's (Jan 4, 2007)

As I've said - the SHOT Show will be the place to find out more details and PK's CPF Party on the Saturday night will be the place to be.

Al


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## blake711 (Jan 4, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> The only problem with an announcement of this nature is that it Kills SureFire Led based light sales until the new products come to market.
> yaesumofo



That could mean 2 things.. First good deals on current Led Suefires to make way for the new. Second Surefire must know that their will be a drop in sales of current models as folks will want to wait for new ones. I am an example of that was in the market for a new Surefire LED now I will wait. Anyway so they may actually hurry up and get these to market to prevent a slump in sales numbers.


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## carrot (Jan 4, 2007)

I hope I can afford all three new Surefires...


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

WOW! This is sweet news! Oh man, I can't wait for their catalog to be available for download. I just started a thread about the possibility of transplanting a Cree into a L5. Hopefully that will be one of them! I will DEFINETLY be getting one of them, especially that L1...

I think they would be crazy not to put it in the U2, since thats their top dog (as far as we know). I think we can pretty much assume that will be the other one besides the L1, what do you think the 3rd one will be?

Well we know of 2 new lights this year - G3 and L1-C. Man, SHOT is only a week away and I'm as giddy as a schoolgirl that just got a new Barbie doll....


Oops, did I say that out loud?


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## InfidelCastro (Jan 4, 2007)

What a first post! Hahaha.

A Cree L1 would definately be on my shortlist.


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## carrot (Jan 4, 2007)

How do we know a Cree L1 is on the way? It could have just been a stock photo randomly selected by Cree to use for their PR announcement...


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

Well the article states that the Cree will power 3 new models "one pictured above". I'm sure that Surefire is the one that provided that photo to Cree....


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

Size15's said:


> As I've said - the SHOT Show will be the place to find out more details and PK's CPF Party on the Saturday night will be the place to be.
> 
> Al



You going to the party?


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## carrot (Jan 4, 2007)

I hope you're right, KDOG3. A Cree L1 would definitely be a sweet light.


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

If the L1 is indeed one of the new Cree'd Surefires, I assume that they would have to rework the converter to run less power to the emitter than the current model, since the Cree would be way too bright on low with the current driver setup. I wonder what the runtime will be on low with that baby in there!


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## Lumenation (Jan 4, 2007)

I hope they offer a Cree head I can buy to put on my E2L


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

BentHeadTX said:


> Wonder if SF will now persue the 2AA rumored light from last year? "Tacti-cool without Tacti-crazy batteries".




Well they may not need to with the Crees', since you can get them to run alot longer with regard to the output. Would make buying batteries less painful.


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## FrogsInWinter (Jan 4, 2007)

My short wish list:

E2d XR-E Defender powered by a Q4 bin XR-E LED

that's all!


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## blake711 (Jan 4, 2007)

Don't know if anyone tryed this but I just clicked on the Image and this is what comes up .. http://www.cree.com/press/enlarge.asp?i=1167920349046 an enlarged image and it says L1 on it.


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

I would LOVE to see them come out with Cree based LED module to drop - in 6P, C2, G2, etc...


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## boef800 (Jan 4, 2007)

A cree'd L1 with reflector would be an about perfect EDC Surefire in my book.


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## Blindasabat (Jan 4, 2007)

So it looks like:
*For sure, an L1 Cree assuming Cree's press release is correct.:rock:
*Likely a U2 Cree (U3?, Ultimate +1)
*I assume the higher end single stage L6 or L7 will be done next for tactical use(where two-stage is not always a good idea), followed by L5, L4, L2 maybe not in that order.
*Maybe then the Kroma will become the Croma.



KDOG3 said:


> I would LOVE to see them come out with Cree based LED module to drop - in 6P, C2, G2, etc...


+1! 6P/G2 LA please! And add an L1 stye 2-stage switch.

But they will not replace my A2! They need to come out with *broad spectrum* LEDs that more closely duplicate the spectral output of an incan first.

Speculation is so much more fun when it seems it may actually be close to reality.


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## cheapo (Jan 4, 2007)

YEAH!!!!! NICE FIND!!!!

-David


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## IsaacHayes (Jan 4, 2007)

Only question is now, will they use the Cree optic for the L1, or go to some sort of reflector like we all want?

I can only guess that the other two lights will possibly be their LuxV lights replaced with cree. The KL6 reflector works great with the Cree, so perhaps they will do that, and run it 700-1000ma to get the same output, but with greater battery life?


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## cheapo (Jan 4, 2007)

wow! A CREE L1!!!! http://www.cree.com/press/enlarge.asp?i=1167920349046

-David


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## woodasptim (Jan 4, 2007)

I'd buy a E1L-XRE


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## Undark (Jan 4, 2007)

*Surefire's going Cree!*

I don't know if this is new to you but:

http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1167920349046


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## ICUDoc (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

WOW!
That is news to me.
I can't wait to see the three new Surefire torches!


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## dizzy (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

There goes that extra overtime money I just made. 

Nice find, by the way.


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## Gimpy00Wang (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Maybe the new SF lights will be announced at SS '07? I wish I was going.

- Chris


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## benchmade_boy (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

So are they going to change the l1 to a cree? at least that what it say" then new cree light pictured above" and its an l1.

woo-hoo i cant wait to see some beamshots!


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## Casual Flashlight User (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

L5...please let them release a L5 Cree!






CFU


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## Fluffster (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

oooooh, purty!


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## tulanebme (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I'll have to see how they price them relative to their luxeon lights before I get too excited. It should get interesting with Surefire joining the Cree club.


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## blake711 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Undark said:


> I don't know if this is new to you but:
> http://www.cree.com/press/press_detail.asp?i=1167920349046



(Moderator note: Thanks for the link blake...threads merged!)


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## greenLED (Jan 4, 2007)

*YEAH!!!!*​

There goes my "I have too many lights, I'm not getting any more" line. :laughing:

Oh, how I regret not going to SHOT this year! :hairpull:


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Holy @#$%!!! Now I'm really excited about the whole Cree madness! An U.S made light with an XR-E and nothing less than a SUREFIRE!!!
I'm totally

:rock:


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## KROMATICS (Jan 4, 2007)

I wouldn't trust the Cree press release with regard to the L1 being one of the lights. At the very least they would have to change the name of the light to avoid confusion. The picture just shows a stock L1 photo.


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## light_emitting_dude (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I will take a cree version of the L4 please!


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## Delta447 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Cree looks like it is close to its 52 week low on the NASDAQ. Maybe it's time to buy their stock.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 4, 2007)

Screw runtime! I want an M3T XR-E pumping out 250+ lumens!!!


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## PoliceScannerMan (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I am not suprised at all, why wouldnt they use Cree? Surefire knows what we want, more lumens!


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## jch79 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Wow - good find there Undark!

And Delta447 - not a bad call about buying Cree stock! :thinking: Not that I have any money to buy stock with!! :laughing:

john


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## woodasptim (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Can't wait to see if they release a E1L-XRE


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

IsaacHayes said:


> The KL6 reflector works great with the Cree, so perhaps they will do that, and run it 700-1000ma to get the same output, but with greater battery life?



I'd love to get a CreeL6. But isn't the Seoul version of the Cree better with reflectors? Or is that the one they're using?


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## BBL (Jan 4, 2007)

Whoa, i didnt expect this one. The L1 beam, on the photo, looks like a classic spot/spill beam... no more spot

Do you smell that? ... must be my money, burning


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## Topper (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

woodasptim, I sent a PM your way.
Topper


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## lightbug (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

CREE stock?
LOL, bought a 100 shares earlier today after heard the news of surefire using their cree XR-E die. Hope it can make me enough money to buy another few flashlights:lolsign:


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

Yeah, I see my wallet writing its' will! Man, now I gotta sell the L1 I just modded with a UXOK so I can get this one!


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Wha--- Cree is a publicly traded company? Whats their symbol?


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## lightbug (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

their stock quote is "CREE" 

Just by looking their 2 years chart, I see a down trend price of $14 and up trend price of $24 in the next 6 months.


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## Hellbore (Jan 4, 2007)

Well... all I can say is... To all the skeptics out there who said Cree was unproven, blah blah blah.... IN YOUR FACE! PWNED!

Hehe.... :naughty:


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Anyone have recommendations for a good online brokerage? (For a poor slob?)


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## lukus (Jan 4, 2007)

Ooooh, I also want the E1L with the X-RE. And please, please, get rid of the optic and go with a good textured reflector for a smooth and useful side spill. 

And, as long as I'm wishing, a drop in with a good heat sink that will work in the G2. I'd be happy.........for a while.


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## [email protected] Messenger (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

HOLY CRAP!! It's like some sort of dream come true  !! (now i must go off to pinch myself to make sure, lol). I may be in the market for a surefire aa...if they do plan to go with the 2 aa form factor they mentionned last year. (I'm a poor schmuck and I can't go with 123a's , need I say more?  )...looks like another golden age in the history of handheld lighting


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## lukus (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

(I'm a poor schmuck and I can't go with 123a's , need I say more?  )[/QUOTE]

You've got to make the leap, once you go CR-123 you'll wonder what took you so long. As far as price, with CPF discount you can get them for about a $1 a battery at BatteryStation. And you'll have them when you need them, because they don't fit in your kids toys. 

A typical for instance at my house.......Me, "What happened to the double A batteries?" My wife yelling back "I just put them in the Batmobile!"


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## AndyTiedye (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Delta447 said:


> Cree looks like it is close to its 52 week low on the NASDAQ. Maybe it's time to buy their stock.



Just did.


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Aaugh! I want to buy their stock! But I need a good online trader!


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## AndyTiedye (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



lukus said:


> A typical for instance at my house.......Me, "What happened to the double A batteries?" My wife yelling back "I just put them in the Batmobile!"



If I were your kid I'd probably be modding the toys to take lithiums and go faster!


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## alvdll (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I wonder what will happen to their Lux product line? Will they be ceased? I believe Cree Surefire would sell better than the Lux, all the U2's, Kroma's and LumaMaxes all going to be dead. This reminds me of the P1D CE episode, I wonder if the P1D Lux are dead inventories for Fenix?


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## greenlight (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

:rock: :goodjob:


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## Hellbore (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



[email protected] Messenger said:


> HOLY CRAP!! It's like some sort of dream come true  !! (now i must go off to pinch myself to make sure, lol).



I just punched myself in the face to see if it was a dream AAAUGH, my face, there's blood everywhere... WOOHOO IT'S TRUE CREE IN A SUREFIRE!


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## Boomerang (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Great to be in the midst of a dramatic change in history, isn't it?! 

Andy


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## seery (Jan 4, 2007)

Al - I'll be at the SHOT Thursday-Sunday. Where do I find the details 
regarding the Surefire CPF party  ? 

Thanks.



Size15's said:


> As I've said - the SHOT Show will be the place to find out more details and PK's CPF Party on the Saturday night will be the place to be.
> 
> Al


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## 65535 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Now I will be buying an E1L for sure and I hope that SF makes a U2 rplacement head with the Cree that would be nice.


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## frannek (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

:rock:

I have been waiting for this one. I cannot wait to start seeing pictures from SHOT and am curious to see which 3 models SF comes out with the CREE technology.

Frank


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## N162E (Jan 4, 2007)

seery said:


> Al - I'll be at the SHOT Thursday-Sunday. Where do I find the details
> regarding the Surefire CPF party  ?
> 
> Thanks.


Shot Show Party


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## alanagnostic (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Hey KDOG3,

Don't be in too much of a hurry to buy CREE stock. I've owned it for several years and haven't made a dime on it. I did just buy some shares recently, though. I'm hoping over the long term they will make inroads into the domestic lighting market but I doubt selling XR-E's to Surefire will produce a lot of profit for them. I use Trading Direct for my stock purchases...$9.95 per trade.


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## lightbug (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

If the cree stock don't go up within next 6 months, I don't know when it will.
Because 6 months later, some other LED companies might come out with better LED products and hurt CREE's revenue and growth.
Anyway, got my fingers crossed..lol


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## fnmag (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Tigermoth2000, now that's the way to make your premier post! Well done. Amped up and ready to buy. Kdog3, if you sell me that obsolete L1 with the UXOK for $50 you'd then have money to buy the Cree stock! :rock:


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## x2x3x2 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

nice  makes u think weather the Q2/3 yield was really that small or have they all been snapped by SF 

this probably means that luxeon doesnt have anything in the near future, else id assume SF would stick to them?

finally we can be ready to get more 2x CR123 XR-E lights too!


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## digitaleos (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Do you suppose that one of these lights are the one Mcgizmo was talking about in this post https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1713527#post1713527 Where he talks about a "real" flashlight maker coming out with a light that him and Wayne had significant input on. Don if you're reading this, care to comment?


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## Chronos (Jan 4, 2007)

boef800 said:


> A cree'd L1 with reflector would be an about perfect EDC Surefire in my book.


LOL I've got one thanks to MilkySpit. It is one of my very favorite lights, running a P4 cree with a reflector. Two levels (a useful low), wonderful beam quality... what's not to like?


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## Nell (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Wonder if Surefire can hotrod my U2 to the latest and greatest? That would be nice so I wouldn't feel like I am using antiques.


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## KROMATICS (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



alvdll said:


> I wonder what will happen to their Lux product line? Will they be ceased? I believe Cree Surefire would sell better than the Lux, all the U2's, Kroma's and LumaMaxes all going to be dead. This reminds me of the P1D CE episode, I wonder if the P1D Lux are dead inventories for Fenix?



For all we know Surefire may only be using Cree in their entry-level lights or very small lights (Ti Pocket Rocket) where battery life is paramount. Thus far I have not been very impressed with the beam characteristics or tint of the XR-E but in these applications it might not matter so much. Still, if anyone can make something great out of an XR-E it's Surefire. I'm sure the Luxeons will remain in the lineup for a long time to come though. No need to sacrifice quality for quantity. I hope the first 3 to use the XR-E will be entirely new rather than shoehorned into an existing design. Maybe the L1 will be replaced with an L1C or something.


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## McGizmo (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



digitaleos said:


> Do you suppose that one of these lights are the one Mcgizmo was talking about in this post https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1713527#post1713527 Where he talks about a "real" flashlight maker coming out with a light that him and Wayne had significant input on. Don if you're reading this, care to comment?



SF needs no contributions from me nor have I made any that I am certain of. I shouldn't have made the comment I made but ego got in the way. My bad. I would not be surprised if other Cree based lights are seen at SHOT but I have no direct knowledge, one way or the other, what will be seen. It's probably too soon to see some Seoul P4 based lights but I wouldn't rule that out completely either. :shrug: 

I will play this one round of process of elimination and state that my comment was not in reference to SF. Please excuse me from further speculation. 

Regarding LED's and the comming year, a song pops to my mind:

"The line it is drawn, the curse it is cast and the first one now will later be last. ...... for the times they are a changin. " or words to that effect ~ Bob Dylan


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## Darell (Jan 4, 2007)

seery said:


> Al - I'll be at the SHOT Thursday-Sunday. Where do I find the details
> regarding the Surefire CPF party  ?
> 
> Thanks.


Just boogie over to the Get-together forum, and find this:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=147179

No reason to go this year though. I won't be there.


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## CM (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> ...Thus far I have not been very impressed with the beam characteristics or tint of the XR-E but in these applications it might not matter so much...



I'm somewhat surprised by this statement (and similar others) The ones I've seen were decent to excellent tint, and the beam characteristics is not really a fault of the LED but rather the improper application of a photon management device (reflector) I've built several A19's with Cree's and all produced excellent beams. Same with modified KL6's.

As far as the announcement of "Surefire going Cree" my only question is when will we see this? Fall 2007? Spring 2008? With Surefire's recent history of product releases, this announcement may be a little premature.


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## Darell (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



McGizmo said:


> "The line it is drawn, the curse it is cast and the first one now will later be last. ...... for the times they are a changin. " or words to that effect ~ Bob Dylan


I heard Bob Dylan live in concert just a few months ago. Didn't understand what he was saying 20 years ago, and I still don't! :shrug:


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## digitaleos (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Don,
Thanks for the response, I just remembered reading that and had wondered if maybe Surefire was the manufacturer that you was referring to.



I will try not to make any more speculations as to which manufacturer you worked with.





Chris


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## 700club (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Looks like a great year for flashlights.


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## waterboiler (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

It will be interesting to see SF first Cree lights. Will they 'tweak' their Lux designs, regulators and reflectors/optics to accomodate the XR-E or will they "electrically redesign" them. The Cree's new ( I dare say better ) output v. drive relationship open up options.

In the first case ( tweak ), I suspect that we would see, much as the P1D CE, that the drive currents are the same leading to greater output for the same runtime. This would open up a larger market for LED, the added output would be a big seller, maybe starting to encroach on the P60/61 market.

For the second case, they have the freedom to maintain output at much greater runtime, especially at higher current draws. They could also do a balance of sorts, bit more output with more runtime. The electronics redesign options will take more time since more 'change' is involved.

Looking at their tactical market ( and much of CPF - I suspect ) output wins over runtime. I am torn, I love the idea of an L1 that goes for 8+ hours on high. 

A new U2 may be just too much for me to resist, more output at the top end and better runtimes on the lower modes - I have better hide my wallet.


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## seery (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

N162E and Darell - THANKS for the link :rock:


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## lightplay22 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I really wasn't looking to buy any more lights as my current crop seems to light all the bases. But, it seems my eyes have suddenly poped wide open! E1? ohyea!


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## Death's Head (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

This Cree is going to make me lose my house.


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## KDOG3 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Death's Head said:


> This Cree is going to make me lose my house.



Yeah, I'm getting my tent ready. At least I'll have plenty of light.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Heck, Gosh and Darn!

Back when I had SOME money, I got Chop to LUXIII and Reflector a KL3. Best I could hope for is the G3 to put it on!

I got a PM about a thread where I could get a Cree 1AA for $30 shipped. And I can't.

*#&$#^%$%#^@&*@*(@(#*$^&$#*#@(@)#@)$#*($&*#((@)@


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## cy (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

woo hooo!!!


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## RA40 (Jan 4, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Interesting press release. 

The way I see it, may wipe their LED line-up as we have become accustomed. I'll be looking forward to Cree based E-series lights and an update to the KL-X heads. Hmm...


----------



## AnimalHousePA (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Darn...there goes my March profit-sharing check!


----------



## Concept (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

And I said I didn't want another Surefire?


----------



## Luna (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



waterboiler said:


> A new U2 may be just too much for me to resist, more output at the top end and better runtimes on the lower modes - I have better hide my wallet.



Why would you expect more output? You might get a more intense beam but when compared with W or Xbin U2 I see a loss of output. I haven't personally had time to play with the new crop of emitters but based on the specs and beamshots, i only see gaining runtime and throw out of the emitter change. I don't complain about my U2's runtime as I don't want a pencil thin beam of light from it.


----------



## beer2beer (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Damn, I was about to finally get a L7. Now I ask you guys: Can I wait a bit more and start to dream with a Cree L7???


----------



## Flying Turtle (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

From the business section of today's Raleigh News and Observer:

Cree LEDs to go in flashlights

Durham- Cree''s LEDs will illuminate flashlights for the first time this year.

The Durham company's energy-efficient lighting devices typically are used to backlight mobile phone keypads and screens, but Cree has been aggressive about finding new applications.

SureFire, a Southern California company, has incorporated Cree's devices into three flashlights it plans to release in the next few months.



Geoff


----------



## flame2000 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Yippy!!! 

I want a L4 Cree! Hopefully they don't cost a premium over the standard L4.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

If we take a look at Surefire's current line up, three models stand out as most likely to be Cree updated, these are E1L, E2L and L1. The other models are 5W models with incompatible electronics (except Kroma, but that uses special optics). Those three lights are probably also their biggest sellers. There are also many similarities in these lights so work done on one light can be reused in the others (after all both E1L and E2L uses the KL1 head and the L1 head uses the same optics as the KL1 head). I also guess that we will now get reflectors instead of optics.

From the press release:
“Cree’s new XLamp LEDs measure 40-percent brighter and 50-percent more efficient than other LED solutions,” said John Matthews, Ph.D., SureFire’s founder and president.

From this I read that the new lights will be 40% brighter and run 50% longer, we then get the following numbers:
E1L: 35 lumens, runtime 2 hours 15 minutes to 50%
E2L: 42 lumens, runtime 4 hours 15 minutes to 50%
L1: 1.5 lumens/31 lumens, runtime 3 hours to 50%

Remember these are "Surefire lumens" and should not be directly compared with lumen numbers for other manufacturers that base their numbers on emitter output. Multiply Surefire lumens with 1.54 to get a sense of how they compare to others.

This may not look as impressive and is probably not what many of you had hoped for, but I feel this is a very good trade off. Now they can claim increased brightness and at the same time satisfy those wanting increased runtime.

Sigbjoern


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Are we sure those are the new lights?

EDIT: Oh I see youre guessing those are the new lights, nevermind.


----------



## Lurveleven (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

IMO, those are the most likely. But Surefire may choose to really surprise me 

Sigbjoern


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I would love to see one in a KL3 head. Put a McR38 reflector in there, wow! Sick runtime, sick output. They'd need to use the Seoul version thought, to engage the reflector better.

If your right about the models, I'll have to replace ALL my lights! Thats' all I have right now, a L1 and a E2L w McR20 reflector in it. I do have a black HA E1e that I'm not using right now so hopefully they'll have the Cree based head available in black.


----------



## RA40 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

One of our KL-1 threads discussed the age of the driver board. I'd tend to agree with Lurveleven's thoughts on the KL-1 and L1 heads. This will be a nice step to integrate the newer technology in a big selling but aging product. A completely new light would be very nice so we'll have to see what pans out.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

6 more days.... the anticipation is killing me.


----------



## 700club (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Surefire is holding a meeting this afternoon hosted by Mr Kim. We will know then what lights and when they will be available.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

What? You definetly gotta come right in here and tell us!


----------



## supes (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Looks like my KL4 will have a true competitor now! God I love Surefire!!!


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Now lets wait for Inova, Pelican, Pentagon Light and Streamlight to catch on...


----------



## [email protected] Messenger (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Now lets wait for Inova, Pelican, Pentagon Light and Streamlight to catch on...


If we waited for maglite, cree's would by then be obsolete :laughing: .


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Surefire is holding a meeting this afternoon hosted by Mr Kim. We will know then what lights and when they will be available.



Keep us updated. Don't be a tease. :laughing:


----------



## etf (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I am unfamiliar with the cree.

Where does it stack up vs. the Lumileds and K2?

Is it better than the K2?

Specs, please. (lumens, heat dissipation rate, color quality, etc)...


----------



## Martini (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

This announcement is going to have the biggest effect on CPF spending in a long time.


----------



## Deepdog (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

hmm.. i just bought a SF U2 and a Kroma. and now i see this.


----------



## nightstalker101 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Ya, I think a drop in replacement for a G2 would be great.

Nightstalker101


----------



## 700club (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> What? You definetly gotta come right in here and tell us!


Well, meeting is over but Surfire will not release the information until Wed. morning because of SHOT. I will update then, I am sorry.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Well, meeting is over but Surfire will not release the information until Wed. morning because of SHOT. I will update then, I am sorry.



Tease.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Might as well start a new thread at that point and outline *all* their new stuff, both LED and incandescent!


----------



## Loomy (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> Anyone have recommendations for a good online brokerage? (For a poor slob?)



Be careful. If you want to start investing for fun on a whim, do it with small amounts of money you don't mind losing. I know from experience that investing with your heart instead of your head is not a good idea!

Put another way: Surefire using Cree in a couple flashlights isn't enough to make you money on Cree stock.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Well, meeting is over but Surfire will not release the information until Wed. morning because of SHOT. I will update then, I am sorry.




Arrghh. NOOOOOO! *sigh* The torture...


----------



## Tuna (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I think I just had a cree-attack!


----------



## xiaowenzu (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

HAHA, Imagine a surefire U2 CREE!! Woooo! That'll blow my socks off! ))


----------



## milkyspit (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I'll be at SHOT show next week for the first time ever... I'm a SHOT n00b!  The new lights will be interesting to see.


----------



## Cato (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Please SureFire make a 1x123 Cree equipped light (like the E1L) which provides more than 60 Lumen. I am getting tired of carrying a 2x123 light for defense. And that is your market- not dim lights which run for hours and hours! I will hold back buying a Fenix for such a Surfire!


----------



## NewBie (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

These new lights should be quite interesting.

The parts have been out as engineering samples for a long time before they were publically available, or even announced.

As far as LumiLEDs and why they decided to use a new LED. LumiLEDs just got the K2 to market a few months ago, that is their new part.

Looks like I'll be adding a few more Surefire products to my collection!


----------



## c4igrant (Jan 6, 2007)

Size15's said:


> As I've said - the SHOT Show will be the place to find out more details and PK's CPF Party on the Saturday night will be the place to be.
> 
> Al





I will see you at Shot and you can show me the new toys. 



C4


----------



## Chronos (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

This is exciting news, indeed. I have to assume the Crees will be in their smaller LED lights, as stated before (maybe the E1L, L1, E2L?). Guess we will find out tonight! 

I still find the venerable LuxVs to be ideal for multi-cell applications, and the Crees ideal for single cell applications. What happens over time is anyone's guess, as maybe SF can overcome the tight dispersion pattern of the Cree and use it in their larger lights and update their boards too?


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Chronos said:


> This is exciting news, indeed. I have to assume the Crees will be in their smaller LED lights, as stated before (maybe the E1L, L1, E2L?). Guess we will find out tonight!




I think they mean NEXT Saturday, I hope I'm wrong though....


----------



## MikeF (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



 as soon as I find out where.

Just wanted to be first in line!!

:lolsign:


----------



## 700club (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Don't be surprised if the Cree emitter is in all Surefire LED lights real soon!


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Don't be surprised if the Cree emitter is in all Surefire LED lights real soon!




Oh man thats' just WRONG! Details, man details!


----------



## Raven (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Let's hope that SF releases some Cree heads that can be retrofitted onto existing SF bodies.

I think a Cree lamp would look awfully nice on my old 9P


----------



## vizlor (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

"Surefire's going Cree!" ...and I've started selling all my stuff :lolsign:


----------



## Bill97z (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> Aaugh! I want to buy their stock! But I need a good online trader!


 
Eh......These LED's are a small part of CREE's business. In fact, just a few weeks ago CREE stock dropped like 20% in one day because earning estimates were lowered. Be careful.


----------



## CyByte (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Will the e2d be with a cree as well then? The one that is designed for bashing?


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Don't be surprised if the Cree emitter is in all Surefire LED lights real soon!



Are you saying you know the result of Friday's meeting but the information is embargoed until Wednesday? If so just tell us if you were overwhelmed or underwhelmed with what they have planned.


----------



## Stingray (Jan 6, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Well, here's a pic of one of them (supposedly)


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> Are you saying you know the result of Friday's meeting but the information is embargoed until Wednesday? If so just tell us if you were overwhelmed or underwhelmed with what they have planned.



What if he was not over or under whelmed but exactly whelmed enough?


----------



## AndyTiedye (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Death's Head said:


> This Cree is going to make me lose my house.



I want to use these Crees to light my house.


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



xiaowenzu said:


> HAHA, Imagine a surefire U2 CREE!! Woooo! That'll blow my socks off! ))



I don't think so. It will be about the same brightness as before ... but with roughly double the runtime  

bernie


----------



## chris975d (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Kiessling said:


> I don't think so. It will be about the same brightness as before ... but with roughly double the runtime
> 
> bernie


 
Kiessling is right here. I have an XR-E modded U2, and the output is not so much dramatically improved as is the runtime...it literally is almost doubled on the high setting. 

Chris


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



chris975d said:


> Kiessling is right here. I have an XR-E modded U2, and the output is not so much dramatically improved as is the runtime...it literally is almost doubled on the high setting.
> 
> Chris




What? Pics man, pics! Hows' the beam?


----------



## wasBlinded (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



chris975d said:


> Kiessling is right here. I have an XR-E modded U2, and the output is not so much dramatically improved as is the runtime...it literally is almost doubled on the high setting.
> 
> Chris


 
Tell us how your U2 was modded. I hadn't heard of anyone successfully implanting a low Vf LED like a Lux III or Cree XR-E into the U2 and retaining full functionality.


----------



## chris975d (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

It's actually a straight forward mod! The hardest part is getting the head apart, the instructions of which have been posted on here by another member. Yes, the light retains full functionality...all 6 settings. Actually, there is another (well-known) member on here who has successfully modded the U2 as well, but I'll let him chime in on this if he wishes, as I don't want him to get slammed with mod requests! I will try to get some beamshots(I'm no good at them however), but I don't have a place to host them. I'll also get pictures of the modded light showing the XR-E installed. 

Chris


----------



## LEDMaster2003_V2 (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Pretty darned cool! I also noted that John Matthews mentions


> we are able to design LED flashlights with far longer battery life.



Finally some decent runtime, especially in something like a U2. I'd definitely like to see a Cree U2.


----------



## 4sevens (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



chris975d said:


> It's actually a straight forward mod! The hardest part is getting the head apart, the instructions of which have been posted on here by another member. Yes, the light retains full functionality...all 6 settings. Actually, there is another (well-known) member on here who has successfully modded the U2 as well, but I'll let him chime in on this if he wishes, as I don't want him to get slammed with mod requests! I will try to get some beamshots(I'm no good at them however), but I don't have a place to host them. I'll also get pictures of the modded light showing the XR-E installed.
> 
> Chris



 Chris is right. He's got a U2 modded with an XR-E. I followed after
his example and modded mine as well 

Not only is the runtime doubled on all levels, it runs completely cool.
Even on high, it runs barely warm while putting out the same amount of 
light


----------



## chris975d (Jan 7, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Lol...Actually, it was 4sevens idea to begin with... I've learned just about everything from watching and talking to him. The only reason I had mine modded before he did was that I took the impatient route and "brute forced" my U2 open, with little regard to the finish (I have 2 of them...and old "beater" that I used for the mod, and a like new one not modded yet). He is professional in everything he does, and opted to allow a more "professional" opening of his U2 head to be done. All credit for the idea and "how to" goes to 4sevens. 


Chris


----------



## Luna (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Any electrical changes necessary on the U2 mod?


----------



## chris975d (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Luna said:


> Any electrical changes necessary on the U2 mod?


 
Nope. Not a one. Just involves opening the head, and a straight emitter swap. In most cases there isn't even a reflector mod necessary. It is a tight fight sometimes, so at max, you may need to ream out the opening in the reflector a slight bit...

Chris


----------



## wasBlinded (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



chris975d said:


> Nope. Not a one. Just involves opening the head, and a straight emitter swap. In most cases there isn't even a reflector mod necessary. It is a tight fight sometimes, so at max, you may need to ream out the opening in the reflector a slight bit...
> 
> Chris


 
Thats interesting. Someone else tried this with a Lux III and the level selection was not functional. It shouldn't be any different with the Cree, but there might be other factors involved.

Are you limited to using it with a Li-ion cell? I suppose if the Vf of the Cree is high enough, the regulation circuitry may have a better chance of proper control.


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



4sevens said:


> Not only is the runtime doubled on all levels, it runs completely cool.
> Even on high, it runs barely warm while putting out the same amount of
> light


How does that happen? Given the same current, the runtime should be the same with more light - the opposite you are seeing. The U2 would have to cut the power to the LED to keep light level the same with longer run time. 
Possibilities:
*Does it sense LED temp and cut power? No, or it would get just as hot.
*Does it sense Vf somehow? I don't know how.

If it adjusts somehow, how does it do so?


----------



## idleprocess (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Blindasabat said:


> How does that happen? Given the same current, the runtime should be the same with more light - the opposite you are seeing. The U2 would have to cut the power to the LED to keep light level the same with longer run time.
> Possibilities:
> *Does it sense LED temp and cut power? No, or it would get just as hot.
> *Does it sense Vf somehow? I don't know how.
> ...



The Vf for the XR-E should be about half that of the Luxeon V, so the driver needs only draw about half as much current from the cells.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I can't wait for SL 4AA equivalent from SL in Cree XR-E.


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



idleprocess said:


> The Vf for the XR-E should be about half that of the Luxeon V, so the driver needs only draw about half as much current from the cells.


So the U2 can sense Vf or is it just that the LED draws less? How does it do that if it is current regulated? Or (as my brain creaks along to start working) does it regulate current, but the overall flow is lower due to the lower Vf? Am I confused yet?
Please excuse my redimentary understanding of electronics...


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Handlobraesing said:


> I can't wait for SL 4AA equivalent from SL in Cree XR-E.


Not to go further off topic, but ...Streamlight Scorpion! Focusing, tiny, rubber sleeve. For those of us that prefer CR123.

Back on topic (or attempt to look like I am), the G2 would actually be the second SF I'd want to see go Cree after the L1. It's more affordable, and it is not supposed to be a "tactical" quality light, not needing as much development as the higher end lights, so it might be able to hit the market more quickly.


----------



## cheapo (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

i am very interested in having my u2 modded with a cree. anyone who has done it before want to pm me? 

-David


----------



## softfeel (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



chris975d said:


> It's actually a straight forward mod! ....
> 
> Chris





4sevens said:


> Chris is right. He's got a U2 modded with an XR-E. I followed after
> his example and modded mine as well
> 
> Not only is the runtime doubled on all levels, it runs completely cool.
> ...


 
You guys should start a "how-to" thread about modding the U2. Alot of us would like that.


----------



## Luna (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



idleprocess said:


> The Vf for the XR-E should be about half that of the Luxeon V, so the driver needs only draw about half as much current from the cells.




What is its vf at around 860ma?


----------



## beer2beer (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Raven said:


> I think a Cree lamp would look awfully nice on my old 9P


Wow, that would be AWESOME! I have a 9P and I would love to get a Cree to put on it. No more spare lamps. Also a Cree for my 8NX would be terrific, a perfect combination IMO.:huh:


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Well, meeting is over but Surfire will not release the information until Wed. morning because of SHOT. I will update then, I am sorry.




Looking forward to your update at midnight. :laughing:


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Well, meeting is over but Surfire will not release the information until Wed. morning because of SHOT. I will update then, I am sorry.





KROMATICS said:


> Looking forward to your update at midnight.


I'm setting my alarm...


----------



## Solstice (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Could someone going to SHOT please bring me back a Qbin Cree based Ti 1AA "Pocket Rocket" with variable brightness knob? Thanks in advance .


----------



## [email protected] Messenger (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Solstice said:


> Could someone going to SHOT please bring me back a Qbin Cree based Ti 1AA "Pocket Rocket" with variable brightness knob? Thanks in advance .


 
I don't even care if it's ti, it could be al or tungsten for all I cared, lol, as long as they come out with a aa (tungsten is actually cheaper than ti and is tougher  ...but due to the weight it would be almost impractical, unless you didn't care about the weight, I guess it would serve as one hell of a kubaton if it was though)


----------



## 700club (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I just received the Shot Show Price list with all the new Cree part #s. Surefire will not allow me to share the info until tomorrow morning but the news is very exciting. I will update in the morning. Stay tuned...


----------



## digitaleos (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

    You know, it is tomorrow morning somewhere.

Chris


----------



## Glockstersharp (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



digitaleos said:


> You know, it is tomorrow morning somewhere.
> 
> Chris


 
:lolsign:


----------



## alantch (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> I just received the Shot Show Price list with all the new Cree part #s. Surefire will not allow me to share the info until tomorrow morning but the news is very exciting. I will update in the morning. Stay tuned...



Besides the part nos, any indication on timeframe about availability of the new SF lights with Crees?


----------



## Alin10123 (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Sweet!


----------



## beezaur (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



alantch said:


> any indication on timeframe about availability of the new SF lights with Crees?




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

HA!

Ahem.

2 weeks.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . .

Scott


----------



## Glockstersharp (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 9, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> I just received the Shot Show Price list with all the new Cree part #s. Surefire will not allow me to share the info until tomorrow morning but the news is very exciting. I will update in the morning. Stay tuned...



Just a few hours till "morning" you know...


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Yup, lets hear it!


----------



## [email protected] Messenger (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

C'mon spill the beans  ...technically it's 37 minutes past morning on my clock:lolsign:


----------



## Destroid Monster (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Its 2pm here now in Singapore


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

1:26 AM here in Chicago!


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

5 a.m ........................NEED TO KNOW!!!


----------



## Mash (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I am tired of non stop refreshing........


----------



## jonman007 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Mash said:


> I am tired of non stop refreshing........



lol me too!


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I just got my first Surefire the other day (M951xm weaponlight) and have an L5 coming in the mail...(hopefully today?) I just found out, about an hour after ordering the L5 that the cree's will be used for some of thier lights. I almost wish I woulda waited on the L5, but from what I've read about it, doesn't seem I'll be disapointed.




I wanted an L1 ,but now I've gotta wait to see whats coming out before I order any more. Who knows how long it will be before they release the new products....now I've gotta wait for more of that good fulfilling flashlight crack! Anyone have a L1 cheap?



I need something to hold me over for the withdraw of waiting.


----------



## beer2beer (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Hey 700club...

WAKE UP!!!


----------



## MSI (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I think someone is pulling your leg. Why should 700club know anything more than the rest of us?


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Flood his mailbox!


----------



## mudhole (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

someone call him man!!! it's a week day why is he sleeping in!!!


----------



## beer2beer (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Someone turn on a SF The Beast and put on his face!


----------



## DaFABRICATA (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Just got the L5....HOLY SH......I've never seen such a bright LED! (no prior high end LED experiance...all $30 & less) If the Crees are really that much brighter I'm definetly waiting for the new releases!:naughty: 
Who's got his #?


----------



## bubbamets5505 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

If I'm awake everone should be.


----------



## iholla (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Im at work just waiting......


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

OK here we go...

Every LED Surefire light will get the new Cree emitter. It is what they are calling a manufacturer change. The great news is the prices will remain the same. The first lights to receive the Cree are:

E2L 45 lum 18hr run time
E1L 30 lum 17hr run time
L5 120 lum
L1 65 lum

the lumen output on all the lights are very conservative for instance the E2L really puts out 60-70 lumens and the E1L puts out 40-50 lumens.

The U2, K2, L2, L4, and Aviator will not be receiving the Cree right away. 

The new heads that will be available with the Cree are:

KX1 to fit the E1E
KX2 to fit the E2E
KX5 to fit E2E, etc.

To replace the X200 will be the Cree X300 putting out a whopping 160 lumens. The X300L will have a Laser also. The X300 will be available in approx 3 months.

The 6PD will be an incandescent with a strike bezel.
They also have a 9P in nitrolon.

BIG NEWS

Now this is cool, limited production to 1000 pieces. Titanium CR2 with Cree. Light measures 3.15x.75 and puts out 30 lumens conservative for 50 hours. Real output is more like 50 lumen.

The new Cree line should star shipping in approx 30 days. Start saving guys. LOL


----------



## EngineeringGuy (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Finally!!! Thanks


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Oh and when they put a Cree in a U2 it put out 300 lumens. WHOA!


----------



## Flight_Deck (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Yipee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Preorder... preorder... I'm chanting PREORDER!


----------



## EngineeringGuy (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Ummm.... 300 lumens from a cree? Isn't that a bit above the rated maximum output of the cree? I believe that is either incorrect, or they are SERIOUSLY overdriving that LED.


----------



## Deepdog (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

crap i just bought a U2 and a kroma.


----------



## wotblake (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Hmmm wondering when these will hit the stores...


----------



## McGizmo (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

700Club,

Have you seen any of these new lights? I am particularly interested in the CR2 Ti light.

Thanks.


----------



## EngineeringGuy (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Why do the posts keep showing up out of order? Even timestamps show the times out of order... Wierd.


----------



## tenfour (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

i wonder if my backordered kroma milspec will get an xr-e in it </wishful_thinking>


----------



## wotblake (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Whats the difference between the KX1, KX2, KX5?

You said to fit the E1, E2, etc. Is the KX1 and KX2 both replacements for the Kl1 but one is for 3 volts and one is for 6? I like that with my current L4 and E1L I can make 4 different lights.


----------



## Cornkid (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I WANT A CR2 CREE!


----------



## slick228 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> BIG NEWS
> 
> Now this is cool, limited production to 1000 pieces. Titanium CR2 with Cree. Light measures 3.15x.75 and puts out 30 lumens conservative for 50 hours. Real output is more like 50 lumen.



What's the MSRP on this light?


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



EngineeringGuy said:


> Ummm.... 300 lumens from a cree? Isn't that a bit above the rated maximum output of the cree? I believe that is either incorrect, or they are SERIOUSLY overdriving that LED.


 
YES it was driven @ 6 watt


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Yessss. The L5 is what I'm after. I just bought a C2-HA and KL3 head. Guess I'll have to mod that!


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



McGizmo said:


> 700Club,
> 
> Have you seen any of these new lights? I am particularly interested in the CR2 Ti light.
> 
> Thanks.


 
No, I have not seen them yet. The new Surefire catalog comes out next week and the new lights are in them.


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



wotblake said:


> Whats the difference between the KX1, KX2, KX5?
> 
> You said to fit the E1, E2, etc. Is the KX1 and KX2 both replacements for the Kl1 but one is for 3 volts and one is for 6? I like that with my current L4 and E1L I can make 4 different lights.


 
Yes one is 3 volt and the other is 6 volt.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

So whats' the difference between the KX2 and KX5?


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



slick228 said:


> What's the MSRP on this light?


 
Fasten your seatbelt. LOL

MSRP $499.00

Part # TT-Ti-WH 

The light is called TITAN.


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Did they say where to sign up for or buy the Ti CR2?

<edit> DOH! Just saw the price. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!  Should have known.


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> So whats' the difference between the KX2 and KX5?


 
The KX5 they are calling a 5 watt.


----------



## photorob (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Fasten your seatbelt. LOL
> 
> MSRP $499.00
> 
> ...



Kind of sounds like they are just taking advantage of or disorder. I also think it's kind of strange how surefire went the runtime route rather then going for high output.


----------



## slick228 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Thank you, 700club, for providing us with cutting edge news. Your efforts are greatly appreciated.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Oh and when they put a Cree in a U2 it put out 300 lumens. WHOA!




You had me up to this point.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Man this news just made all of my lights obsolete! Even that light that I ordered and haven't recieved yet! 

No black HA? I can't wait to download their new catalog.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> The KX5 they are calling a 5 watt.



5 watt? Are you sure its E-series? If so, DROOOOOOLLL.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I was expecting a SF L6 XR-E putting out at least 250 lumens. 
I'm sticking with my incans...


----------



## Mister T (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Will those new heads have optics or reflectors?


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I was expecting a SF L6 XR-E putting out at least 250 lumens.
> I'm sticking with my incans...



Yeah I wonder what happened to the L6? If its still a LuxV that will be lame. 

I wonder what the runtime will be on that L5...wonder if my brand new C2/KL3 combo is even worth keeping. *sigh* c'mon we need PICS dangit!


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



> L1 65 lum


Ha! My Milky ML1 Cree TIR will have more than that! (~80 lumens) in a beam you can walk on. I'm going to call it my Phaser (most of my lights have names - I'm such a huge nerd). I'll have shorter runtime but what is the low for anyway? High should be HIGH. The thing already lasts forever on one battery.
I don't feel I need a new SF so bad now. Where's that *Whew!* emoticon? 

Except that the Ti CR2 is the first light I've even given a millisecond's though to buying that cost over $250.

700club, Thanks for the info, I think it is the single most important post of the year so far (yes, way more than the L1D), and I favorited your actual post. I think that announcement deserved a new thread!!


----------



## InfidelCastro (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> OK here we go...
> 
> Every LED Surefire light will get the new Cree emitter. It is what they are calling a manufacturer change. The great news is the prices will remain the same. The first lights to receive the Cree are:
> 
> ...





Is there really going to be a difference between the KX1 and KX2 or will it basically be like the KL1 head?

Are they still going to use those dreaded optics?


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Hmmm, now I gotta decide which kidney to sell to buy these lights.....


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I was expecting a SF L6 XR-E putting out at least 250 lumens.
> I'm sticking with my incans...



Yeah, wait for the 3 x XR-E replacements making over 600 lumens.

Or for them to figure out how to make that 300Lumen U2 live.

Hmmm, the only new incans they have announced though, are new variations of existing lower level lights...


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Blindasabat said:


> Yeah, wait for the 3 x XR-E replacements making over 600 lumens.
> 
> Or for them to figure out how to make that 300Lumen U2 live.
> 
> Hmmm, the only new incans they have announced though, are new variations of existing lower level lights...


 I don't need nor want new incans at this moment. I was expecting something LED that could perhaps rival by high-powered incans. I guess I'd have to wait another half a decade...


----------



## beezaur (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

This creates a bit of a problem with lights like the L1.

At 65 lumens on high (and presumably a similar increase on low) it won't be the low-level reading light that it has been.

More light is normally good on high, but I am not real enthusiastic about losing the low end.

But besides that small concern, WOW! SureFire was starting to fall behind in lumen ratings. This is a welcome change.

I still await an LED version of the M6, but I see that, with a 300-lumen U2, it is not that far off.

Scott


----------



## asdalton (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I was expecting a SF L6 XR-E putting out at least 250 lumens.
> I'm sticking with my incans...



I don't think it's reasonable to expect that much output from a Cree, at least not from a single emitter. I modded an L6 to use a Cree XR-E (P4 WH bin) with the stock circuit, and its output is slightly more than my overachieving L5. The upcoming Q bins will do better but not double that.

Throw is way better than with a Lux V, though. Running at half the power consumption and heat load is also nice.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



asdalton said:


> I don't think it's reasonable to expect that much output from a Cree, at least not from a single emitter. I modded an L6 to use a Cree XR-E (P4 WH bin) with the stock circuit, and its output is slightly more than my overachieving L5. The upcoming Q bins will do better but not double that.
> 
> Throw is way better than with a Lux V, though. Running at half the power consumption and heat load is also nice.


 If it's impossible to get 250 lumens from THREE CR123s using the highest LED technology available (not to mention the most advanced flashlight manufacturer). Then ditch this LED crap altogether and move on. Someone needs to find a better form of light source ASAP.


----------



## vizlor (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Don't fret, wallet. I know you always used to talk about how happy you are now, full of money, and that you said you wanted this to last forever. Well, you have to see things on the bright side! From now on, you'll both be losing weight as well as getting more space! :sigh:


----------



## cslinger (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

You are telling me that an E1L (Cree) will run at an Surefire indicated 30 Lumens for a Surefire indicated 17 hours??? Seventeen!!?? Now I assume that will include a moon tail but Surefire, who is normally conservative with their ratings is saying 30 lumens, 1 battery, 17 hours???? That seems rather hopeful to me....or am I falling for an April fools a few months early?

As for the L1 if the low mode is "slightly" brighter I am on board. I do not want to see a low of 10 lumens though, maybe 2-4. A high of 65 sounds nice though and based on their other run times sounds like it should run for 2-3 hours.


----------



## AndyTiedye (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



photorob said:


> Kind of sounds like they are just taking advantage of or disorder. I also think it's kind of strange how surefire went the runtime route rather then going for high output.



Well they sure aren't making that one to sell to the Army.

Kind of makes the CR2 Ion XT, the Orb Ti, the Draco Ti, and even the McGizmo XR19C look like bargains :lolsign:


----------



## photorob (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



vizlor said:


> Don't fret, wallet. I know you always used to talk about how happy you are now, full of money, and that you said you wanted this to last forever. Well, you have to see things on the bright side! From now on, you'll both be losing weight as well as getting more space! :sigh:



Ya until you stick all those flashlights in your pockets.


----------



## photorob (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



AndyTiedye said:


> Kind of makes the CR2 Ion XT, the Orb Ti, the Draco Ti, and even the McGizmo XR19C look like bargains :lolsign:



I would kind of rather give my money to those makers anyways. Mcgizmo lights rock.


----------



## vizlor (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



photorob said:


> Ya until you stick all those flashlights in your pockets.



Ok, I'll just have to face the facts... there is no way my wallet will benifit from this.


----------



## photorob (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

With runtimes like those they have to be using q bins.


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Q bins? I thought those were extremely unobtanium.

What is the big deal anyway, there are lots of flashlight manufacturers, why is everyone freaking out about Surefire?

I have never bought a Surefire or seen them in stores, and no one I know in real life owns one. What is the big deal?


----------



## vizlor (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Hellbore, probably the wrong thread to start a discussion about what is good with surefire. There are plenty of other discussions about this if you search I believe.

Best of all though, buy one and try one . I recommend the aviator myself, or simply a g2.


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

pff... man everyone is so stressed about keeping on topic...


----------



## vizlor (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

The main reason I told you to search is because it's the best way to reach the information. There is so much to read.


----------



## coontai (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I am confused. So the x300 will be in ALL CREE BASED SUREFIRE FLASHLIGHTS in 3 months ie L2, L4, and L5 will put out 160 lumens?


----------



## MSI (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

So many people fooled so easily :sigh:


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



MSI said:


> So many people fooled so easily :sigh:



Who is fooled? I'm kinda new to this stuff explain?


----------



## carrot (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I'm excited, though disappointed that the Ti CR2 is out of my price range. Probably gonna pick up the L1.


----------



## photorob (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



MSI said:


> So many people fooled so easily :sigh:



I'm confused. Are you trying to say that this info is all a lie. Liers should be :banned:


----------



## luigi (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I would like them to put a CREE XR-E instead of the incandescent lamp in the A2, focused for throw that would make the A2 a super amazing light and without the need to change bulbs ever. 

Luigi


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



photorob said:


> I'm confused. Are you trying to say that this info is all a lie. Liers should be :banned:



Yeah, I'm not buying it either...

If Surefire could put out 300 lumens in a U2 all other flashlight manufacturers would cease to exisit. The Cree XR-E maxes out at what, 160 lumens? There's only so much you can overdrive that thing. That's not even taking into account losses from both heat and reflector.

Also, 3 new Surefire lights using Cree XR-E LEDs has turned into every product being updated eventually yet all are featured in the catalog or price list right now? Wouldn't releasing such significantly improved lights with the same names be just a little confusing?

Other bits that don't make sense like the Ti keychain light having only 30 lumens when it's supposed to be infinitely adjustable and if it uses a CR2 why is it over 3 inches long? The 9P in Nitrolon is well known to be the G3 as well. 

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing all this but it just doesn't add up. I'd like to hear more details or see a scan of this price list if possible. Of course Shot Show starts tomorrow so I guess we'll know soon enough.


----------



## asdalton (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> If it's impossible to get 250 lumens from THREE CR123s using the highest LED technology available (not to mention the most advanced flashlight manufacturer). Then ditch this LED crap altogether and move on. Someone needs to find a better form of light source ASAP.



I'm not sure what you're getting at.  The advantage of the Cree XR-E is that you can get 100+ real-world, focusable beam lumens (and dimmable) from an emitter that uses half the power of its predecessors. Of course, you can get more lumens from a particular flashlight by using multiple emitters and reflectors.

There is no reasonable _a priori_ expectation to get X lumens from N batteries. The laws of physics and the current state of technology are what they are. If you are demanding 250+ lumens from a single emitter, stick with incandescent or go to HID.


----------



## MSI (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



photorob said:


> I'm confused. Are you trying to say that this info is all a lie. Liers should be :banned:


There is not much that is in line with what Surefire has officially given us of information in the Cree press release, i.e. 3 new lights, ~40% brighter, ~50% longer runtime.


----------



## MSI (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

*deleted*, double post because of server busy


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



luigi said:


> I would like them to put a CREE XR-E instead of the incandescent lamp in the A2, focused for throw that would make the A2 a super amazing light and without the need to change bulbs ever.
> 
> Luigi


Then you lose some of what is good about the A2. The xenon with wide spectrum output (particularly the Red/Orange output missing from LEDs) can be used to cut through smoke/fog/mist better than LEDs. I have tested this myself. Too much of the blue spectrum emitted by LEDs is reflected back while incans lack as much blue and have a ton of stronger red/orange. The spectrum charts showing this are in the SureFire Illumination Tools pdf found on their web site. 
I say leave the A2 with an incan main beam until LEDs can put out a true wide spectrum or the right spectrum for cutting through fog. That is half the reason I own the A2.
I can see where all cars will have to have incan fog lights after LEDs replace the headlights.

Plus, the regulated soft start-up of the A2 xenon helps prevent early bulb burn out.


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Blindasabat said:


> I can see where all cars will have to have incan fog lights after LEDs replace the headlights.



LED's used for headlights? HAHAHAHAA!  That's rich...

Sorry but they aren't THAT bright yet... I can see car headlights all moving to HID before they move to LED's...


----------



## yaesumofo (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

The only thing that needs to be done to the A2 is a change of led to an emitter which doesn't look blue or purple on the white light model. The incan is great. The led's are less than perfect. IMHO.
Yaesumofo



Blindasabat said:


> Then you lose some of what is good about the A2. The xenon with wide spectrum output (particularly the Red/Orange output missing from LEDs) can be used to cut through smoke/fog/mist better than LEDs. I have tested this myself. Too much of the blue spectrum emitted by LEDs is reflected back while incans lack as much blue and have a ton of stronger red/orange. The spectrum charts showing this are in the SureFire Illumination Tools pdf found on their web site.
> I say leave the A2 with an incan main beam until LEDs can put out a true wide spectrum or the right spectrum for cutting through fog. That is half the reason I own the A2.
> I can see where all cars will have to have incan fog lights after LEDs replace the headlights.
> 
> Plus, the regulated soft start-up of the A2 xenon helps prevent early bulb burn out.


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Hellbore said:


> LED's used for headlights? HAHAHAHAA!  That's rich...
> 
> Sorry but they aren't THAT bright yet... I can see car headlights all moving to HID before they move to LED's...



There are cars with LED headlights. The new Audi A8 and the Mercedes S600 Cabrio come to mind, and others will follow. And they are that bright. Just use more than one. 
Not that this would be on topic, but still ... 
bernie


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Kiessling said:


> There are cars with LED headlights. The new Audi A8 and the Mercedes S600 Cabrio come to mind, and others will follow. And they are that bright. Just use more than one.
> Not that this would be on topic, but still ...
> bernie



WTF? How many do they use?? and what kind?


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Hellbore said:


> WTF? How many do they use?? and what kind?


Osram 10 & 15W with (I think) 6 and 8 dies each emitter.


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> 5 watt? Are you sure its E-series? If so, DROOOOOOLLL.


 
Yes, it will replace the KL4.


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> Yeah I wonder what happened to the L6? If its still a LuxV that will be lame.
> 
> I wonder what the runtime will be on that L5...wonder if my brand new C2/KL3 combo is even worth keeping. *sigh* c'mon we need PICS dangit!


 
L6 will be Cree also. Every Surefire LED will have a Cree emitter.


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



InfidelCastro said:


> Is there really going to be a difference between the KX1 and KX2 or will it basically be like the KL1 head?
> 
> Are they still going to use those dreaded optics?


 
I don't know if they are optics or reflectors. The KX1 replaces the KL1 and the KX2 replaces the KL2.


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Blindasabat said:


> Yeah, wait for the 3 x XR-E replacements making over 600 lumens.
> 
> Or for them to figure out how to make that 300Lumen U2 live.
> 
> Hmmm, the only new incans they have announced though, are new variations of existing lower level lights...


 
The U2 will not be 300 lumens. It was over driven in a test @ 6 watts with a Cree. That is what I was told. The claim may have been exaggerated by Surefire I do not know. The info in this post are there claims not mine I am just sharing.


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



coontai said:


> I am confused. So the x300 will be in ALL CREE BASED SUREFIRE FLASHLIGHTS in 3 months ie L2, L4, and L5 will put out 160 lumens?


 
Yes X300 will be Cree based, output is 160 lumens, and will be available in 3 months.


----------



## :)> (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

If the reports furnished by 700 are reliable, these will be very sought after lights. I don't know what to make of these reports though because they seem soooooo much more optimistic than I would have expected. 

I am hoping that these new lights do perform up to these levels but not conviniced. Only a few days from knowing for sure though!

700, where did you get this advance notice from?

-Goatee


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I am a Surefire dealer. They come from my Rep.


----------



## Glockstersharp (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

700Club, just wanted to say thanks for providing us with the info.:rock:


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Your welcome guys. 

Thanks for the kind words.


----------



## Cypher (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I don't know if you can clarify any more than you already have but I'm still hazy on the KL1 replacement. The KL1 operates from 3-9 volts and is on both the E1L and E2L. It will be replaced by two separate heads: KX1 and KX2. But you say the KX2 replaces the KL2 which, as far as I know, is no longer offered by Surefire and when it was I think it was for the Millenium series lights and had a 19 led array. I'm not following that. 

I don't mean to be picky, it's just exciting news and I want to find out everything. 

I will say that if it is indeed replaced by two separate units I will be somewhat disappointed because I love the versatility of using the KL1 on either the E1 or E2 body. I don't want to have to buy two heads to use both body tubes I already have.


----------



## Cypher (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

And yes, thank you for giving us the scoop.


----------



## 700club (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Cypher said:


> I don't know if you can clarify any more than you already have but I'm still hazy on the KL1 replacement. The KL1 operates from 3-9 volts and is on both the E1L and E2L. It will be replaced by two separate heads: KX1 and KX2. But you say the KX2 replaces the KL2 which, as far as I know, is no longer offered by Surefire and when it was I think it was for the Millenium series lights and had a 19 led array. I'm not following that.
> 
> I don't mean to be picky, it's just exciting news and I want to find out everything.
> 
> I will say that if it is indeed replaced by two separate units I will be somewhat disappointed because I love the versatility of using the KL1 on either the E1 or E2 body. I don't want to have to buy two heads to use both body tubes I already have.


 
I just checked my notes and I misspoke. The KX2 head is for the E2E and has nothing to do with the KL2. I should not have mentioned KL2, I am sorry.

The KX1 is for the E1e 
The KX2 is for the E2e
The KX5 I did not ask what it was for. I would imagine the L4.


----------



## carrot (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I can only imagine Lumileds must be very unhappy right now. One of their most prominent customers, switching over to a competitor.


----------



## [email protected] Messenger (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



carrot said:


> I can only imagine Lumileds must be very unhappy right now. One of their most prominent customers, switching over to a competitor.


Heck, they brought it onto themselves...surefire probably was waiting for the k2 and found out it was a flop.


----------



## :)> (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> I am a Surefire dealer. They come from my Rep.



Tremendous. Now I am truly looking forward to the new lights. Thank you very much for the look ahead.

-Goatee


----------



## tvodrd (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Revenge is probably sweet at SF due to the debacle that resulted from Lumiled's slug height change with the "Joker." The "Dognut" holes resulted in a lot of return$! I'm waiting for one of our EEs to provide some more realistic run time estimates for the Lumen output levels posted! Lumileds, Future, and, I *think* someone from Cree were at the last SHOT CPF party that SF sponsored. I perceived some "tension" between mini Beast demonstrations and the lecture on the meaning of "Tactical."

My bag is packed, boarding pass printed, and will have an exhibinist badge waiting friday morning. 

Larry


----------



## Beamhead (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



tvodrd said:


> and will have an exhibinist badge waiting friday morning.


----------



## daveman (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Fasten your seatbelt. LOL
> 
> MSRP $499.00
> 
> ...


$500 for 50 lumens. There's a sucker born every minute...


----------



## photorob (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



daveman said:


> $500 for 50 lumens. There's a sucker born every minute...



Ya and there betting that there will be 1000 of them.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



daveman said:


> $500 for 50 lumens. There's a sucker born every minute...



Supposedly it's 50 lumens output regulated for 50 hours. That's pretty impressive if true. I don't see how it can be though.


----------



## beezaur (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



daveman said:


> $500 for 50 lumens. There's a sucker born every minute...



It isn't about lumens per dollar. It is about high performance and quality.

Go buy some cheap knock-off if all you care about is a lumen number and a dollar number.

Scott


----------



## daveman (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



beezaur said:


> It isn't about lumens per dollar. It is about high performance and quality.
> 
> Go buy some cheap knock-off if all you care about is a lumen number and a dollar number.
> 
> Soctt


 
No sir, not for Your Majesty. But for us poor, working American peasants, $500 for 50 lumens is "quality" we can't afford. Please pardon my absence while I go buy myself some cheap knock-offs.


----------



## beezaur (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

daveman,

Basically you called people who buy the expensive SureFires a bunch of suckers.

If you insult people like that, expect a retort.

By the way, I make a lot less than you think, I guarantee it. I just save up and buy fewer high quality things.

Scott


----------



## T4R06 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

sorry to say that $500 for 50 lumens is overkill!!


----------



## daveman (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

beezaur,

 

I wrote: "$500 for 50 lumens. There's a sucker born every 

 minute."

You read: "Basically you called people who buy the 

 expensive Surefires a bunch of suckers."

 

I implied: 50 lumens are not worth $500.

You replied: "Go buy some cheap knock-offs..."

 

And I allegedly insulted you?

 

For the record: Yes, I hold the opinion that someone who would pay $500 for 50, quality (is that the word you used?) lumens is a certified sucker.


----------



## carrot (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Again and again I see this brought up. So many people feel that dollars should directly translate to lumens. Well, it's not always the case. For about $30 I can get a Thor 30MCP spotlight, or I can spend my money on a Fenix L0P. Well, if I want the best "bang for the buck" I can buy the Thor. But you can't carry the Thor around so easily, it doesn't fit in your pocket, and most of all, the Thor is not nearly as nice a construction as the L0P. For $5 I can get a Dorcy 1AAA LED. For $20, I can get a Fenix E0. You can spend your $5 and get an adequate, but much less satisfying package. Or you can spend 4 times that, and have a light with no greater output, but for a lot of people, it's a much more satisfying purchase.

If you have qualms with buying a $500 light that only has a 50 lumen output, that's absolutely your choice, to see a light the sum of its output and output only. But those who buy it will savor it not for its output, but because of what it is, and the quality of its build.


----------



## AndyTiedye (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



photorob said:


> I would kind of rather give my money to those makers anyways.



Hell yes!         

McGizmo XR19C
his & hers red CR2 Ions (XR-E)
CR2 Ion XT
blue CR2 ion (floody luxeon version for the camera bag)
1x123 A19 XR-E nat in nat Pineapple
2x123 A19 XR-E nat in gold Pineapple
2x123 A19 XR-E black in black Pineapple
On order (if he can do it): Rainbow Ti Orb Raw


----------



## photorob (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Your not really paying for 50 lumens your paying for a TI case which is probably going to be pretty thin and a surefire logo. I still don't believe the runtime claim. If 350ma gives you upwards of 100 lumens with a Qbin then I presume this thing is going to be run at half that. So 150ma. This is not taking into effect lumen loss threw the reflector and glass.


----------



## photorob (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



AndyTiedye said:


> Hell yes!
> 
> McGizmo XR19C
> his & hers red CR2 Ions (XR-E)
> ...



That is a pretty sizable spending spree right there. What the hell though there has to be a reason you worked all those hours. You can't take money to the grave.

Ps: Your collection is growing pretty fast. When you feel more complete you should take some pics.


----------



## Raven (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

The only real question is whether SF will stagger their conversion, or overhaul their entire line, all at once.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Raven said:


> The only real question is whether SF will stagger their conversion, or overhaul their entire line, all at once.




The press release from Cree stated that Surefire will start off with *3* new models. The info 700Club has presented suggests *all* Surefire lights will eventually be converted to Cree. He suggests they will stagger the conversion yet also stated the 2007 catalog would have all the new lights in it next week. If this is true then who would buy a current model in the meantime? I'd also like to know how they plan to differentiate between the old and new versions.


----------



## yellow (Jan 11, 2007)

no multiple levels and any led light is just a gimmick
--> SF seems to go the Mag-way
(great machining with outdated light sources)


----------



## Raven (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



yellow said:


> no multiple levels and any led light is just a gimmick
> --> SF seems to go the Mag-way
> (great machining with outdated light sources)



I absolutely disagree with that. 

Many folks, including myself, prefer the KISS approach. 

It's for this reason that I prefer lights without clickys or multi-stage beams.

To each their own, I suppose.


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Raven said:


> I absolutely disagree with that.
> 
> Many folks, including myself, prefer the KISS approach.
> 
> ...


 I totally agree, multi-stage is BS. I only need a bright light, if I needed a dim light, then it isn't dark enough anyway.


----------



## wasBlinded (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> Supposedly it's 50 lumens output regulated for 50 hours. That's pretty impressive if true. I don't see how it can be though.


 
Thats pretty much impossible. Even if the LED were putting out 100 lumens/watt, that is .5 watts/hour and a CR2 only has a bit less than 2.4 watt-hours of power in it. I think for 50 lumens out the front of the light, you are only going to get about 2 and no more than 3 hours from a CR2 cell, even with a good bin Cree.


----------



## NewBie (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



tvodrd said:


> Revenge is probably sweet at SF due to the debacle that resulted from Lumiled's slug height change with the "Joker." The "Dognut" holes resulted in a lot of return$! I'm waiting for one of our EEs to provide some more realistic run time estimates for the Lumen output levels posted! Lumileds, Future, and, I *think* someone from Cree were at the last SHOT CPF party that SF sponsored. I perceived some "tension" between mini Beast demonstrations and the lecture on the meaning of "Tactical."
> 
> My bag is packed, boarding pass printed, and will have an exhibinist badge waiting friday morning.
> 
> Larry




I can imagine that isn't their only pain over the years.

Are you saying that the donuts, "Dognut" holes were not caught by the QA folks as they checked each light out? Or do they not do QA on each product?

Jokers weren't the only source of donuts, we had those before the jokers came out too.


----------



## beer2beer (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Hmmmm, I guess it's time to check the "Sell" section. :laughing:

:bow:700club.


----------



## vizlor (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

So shot show opens soon, or did I get it all wrong? I'm having a hard time dealing with the wait for more information!


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Yeah, what's the news from Shot Show?


----------



## Hooligan (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



vizlor said:


> So shot show opens soon, or did I get it all wrong? I'm having a hard time dealing with the wait for more information!


 
I think today is the first day of the show. Plenty of reports should be available tonight.

I am really curious what the first Surefire Crees will be (the ones coming out the soonest).


----------



## 700club (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> The press release from Cree stated that Surefire will start off with *3* new models. The info 700Club has presented suggests *all* Surefire lights will eventually be converted to Cree. He suggests they will stagger the conversion yet also stated the 2007 catalog would have all the new lights in it next week. If this is true then who would buy a current model in the meantime? I'd also like to know how they plan to differentiate between the old and new versions.


 
Yes 4 lights in the next 30 days. The rest over time.


----------



## 700club (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Wanted to clarify something, the run times listed for the new Cree product are diminishing or what Surefire calls useful outut.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Make sure you SHOT show people get pics!


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Since it's not 300 lumens what are the specs for the new U2 then? 120 lumens?


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Sounds like Surefire likes to sling a lot of bull... makes me wonder once again why so many CPF-ers worship them...


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> Make sure you SHOT show people get pics!



No live updates? No reports or pictures via cellphone or wireless? Pfffft. This ain't no Macworld. :lolsign:


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Hellbore said:


> Sounds like Surefire likes to sling a lot of bull... makes me wonder once again why so many CPF-ers worship them...




If you hate Surefire so much there are plenty of other threads to read. Stop trolling in this one.


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> If you hate Surefire so much there are plenty of other threads to read. Stop trolling in this one.



I didn't say I hated Surefire, that is a big assumption on your part. I'm not trolling just pointing out that the specifications keep changing, there are seemingly impossible capabilities claimed, etc. so I am pointing out the possibility that they are exaggerating / hyping up their features to drum up sales (the slinging bull comment). Very on-topic and relevant to this thread. I guess we will find out their final word soon though...


----------



## Outdoors Fanatic (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I hate these broke asses who can only afford cheap china junk! That's why they bash Surefire. It's jealousy

It's not Surefire's fault that you are poor, work harder man.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> No live updates? No reports or pictures via cellphone or wireless? Pfffft. This ain't no Macworld. :lolsign:



Yeah really! But unlike the iPhone, Surefire makes stuff people actually want to buy!


----------



## MorpheusT1 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

When did Surefire Sling bull i might ask?



Hellbore said:


> Sounds like Surefire likes to sling a lot of bull... makes me wonder once again why so many CPF-ers worship them...



The statement of a 300 Lumen U2 in the future i dont doubt one bit.
The fact that they overdrove a Cree to 300 Lumens is not so hard to believe.
And i do think that with the fast improving technology we will see a 300 Lumen Cree within the year.
And the fact that there already exists 500 Lumen Leds in the form of the Ostar is not to put behind a chair.
Why do i like Surefires?
Because of the quality feel the lights give me,i havent experienced that feeling with any other lights exept maybe the Mclux Series.

You need to hold one and use it to know what im talking about.






Benny


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Outdoors Fanatic said:


> I hate these broke asses who can only afford cheap china junk! That's why they bash Surefire. It's jealousy
> 
> It's not Surefire's fault that you are poor, work harder man.



Quoted from your profile:


Profile of Outdoors Fanatic said:


> Favorite incandescent light:
> Streamlight Strion



Streamlight Strion = Made in China


----------



## vizlor (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Anyway hellbore, try a surefire and just trade or sell it if you don't like it. They have very good resell value.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Hellbore said:


> I didn't say I hated Surefire, that is a big assumption on your part. I'm not trolling just pointing out that the specifications keep changing, there are seemingly impossible capabilities claimed, etc. so I am pointing out the possibility that they are exaggerating / hyping up their features to drum up sales (the slinging bull comment). Very on-topic and relevant to this thread. I guess we will find out their final word soon though...



Surefire hasn't changed any specs. They haven't even announced anything yet. 

You're going by what 700Club is saying and his info comes from a rep who clearly doesn't have all the details yet. He is also adding his own opinions as to what the "real" lumen output would be. That is because Surefire tends to underestimate their lumen output or at least measure them more accurately while many other manufacturers like to exaggerate them a bit. His comment that the U2 would be 300 lumens was based on a test they did in the lab where it was overdriven. I doubt that was mentioned on the price list he received as it was more likely a comment from his rep. Surefire makes flashlights where people need both lumens *and* runtime. A U2 with 120 lumens and almost twice the runtime would be excellent. 

Sorry but over the past couple days this thread has had a bunch of people trashing Surefire and I just don't understand why. If they don't like Surefire talk about something else. It's not like there are no other flashlight manuafacturers to choose from.


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



vizlor said:


> Anyway hellbore, try a surefire and just trade or sell it if you don't like it. They have very good resell value.



Well I was thinking of trying one of the new Cree ones... which is why I am watching this thread... but still no pics / final info from the SHOT show!


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> Yeah really! But unlike the iPhone, Surefire makes stuff people actually want to buy!


 
Are you serious? The iPhone is incredible. Finally someone gets the whole smartphone idea right. People were literally on the edge of their seats during the announcement. I know I'm getting one!


----------



## Hellbore (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

...And now we are talking about phones for some reason. I'm the one who gets off topic?


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> Are you serious? The iPhone is incredible. Finally someone gets the whole smartphone idea right. People were literally on the edge of their seats during the announcement. I know I'm getting one!



Ugh. 5-600 bucks for a cell phone is sick. That screen is nice but it will be known as the iSmudge as soon as people start using it. But I guess theres' worse things people could spend 5-600 bucks on...


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> Ugh. 5-600 bucks for a cell phone is sick. That screen is nice but it will be known as the iSmudge as soon as people start using it. But I guess theres' worse things people could spend 5-600 bucks on...



It's a cell phone and an iPod plus a whole lot more. 200 patents on the sucker. The glass was designed to resist smudges very well. You should really reserve judgement until you've used it. It's far better than anything else out there. That's worth the price premium. Just like a Surefire, right? Anyway, this is off topic.

Is there anyone from CPF who is at Shot Show today who can report on the Surefire booth? I hope we don't have to wait until PK's party on Saturday before learning anything. Pictures! Specs!


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Are there any websites doing coverage of Shot Show this year? I know there were at least a couple blogs last year. Haven't seen anything on FlashlightNews yet.


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Guys ... we aren't in Kindergarten here ! :nana:
Please ... this is an esciting moment in 2007 and for SF product lines, so don't ruin it with little nasty posts. Please 
bernie


----------



## wacbzz (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> 200 patents on the sucker.


Yeah, that's kinda cool but the one patent they couldn't get was on the NAME. Apple + research interns = complete idiots





Can anyone say "Cisco lawsuit?"


----------



## 700club (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> Since it's not 300 lumens what are the specs for the new U2 then? 120 lumens?


 
No specs yet they are still working on it.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



wacbzz said:


> Yeah, that's kinda cool but the one patent they couldn't get was on the NAME. Apple + research interns = complete idiots
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The had an unsigned agreement with them but Cisco was dragging their feet on it (perhaps intentionally) and couldn't get the deal completed before the announcement. I suspect VOIP funtionality was left out of Apple's iPhone as part of the agreement. All signs pointed towards an agreement and even Cisco stated this they day of Macworld yet the following day they decided to sue instead. Perhaps after Macworld they realized Apple's iPhone was going to be a billion times popular than theirs. Note that Cisco has not sued any other manufacturers using the name iPhone incluidng a couple that make VOIP phones in direct competition with them. A bit suspicious. In any event Apple should just call it the phone and be done with it. Then they can put VOIP back in.

Anyway, we are *waaaay* off topic again and there is a thread about the iPhone here on CPF to discuss it. Of course with the dearth of Surefire news what else is there to talk about?

*Day one of SHOT SHOW is now over so let's hear the reports from the Surefire booth okay? Please?*


----------



## 700club (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> Surefire hasn't changed any specs. They haven't even announced anything yet.
> 
> You're going by what 700Club is saying and his info comes from a rep who clearly doesn't have all the details yet. He is also adding his own opinions as to what the "real" lumen output would be. That is because Surefire tends to underestimate their lumen output or at least measure them more accurately while many other manufacturers like to exaggerate them a bit. His comment that the U2 would be 300 lumens was based on a test they did in the lab where it was overdriven. I doubt that was mentioned on the price list he received as it was more likely a comment from his rep. Surefire makes flashlights where people need both lumens *and* runtime. A U2 with 120 lumens and almost twice the runtime would be excellent.
> 
> Sorry but over the past couple days this thread has had a bunch of people trashing Surefire and I just don't understand why. If they don't like Surefire talk about something else. It's not like there are no other flashlight manuafacturers to choose from.


 
Those estimates come from the rep not me.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Yes 4 lights in the next 30 days. The rest over time.




What are the first *four* lights and will *all* of them be featured in the 2007 catalog or just those four? Can you clarify what the official lumen outputs will be?


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

Yep. Please discuss the iPhone or whatever it is called in the appropriate thread and let's steer this one back on topic. Thanx 
bernie


----------



## 700club (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> What are the first *4* lights and will *all* of them be featured in the 2007 catalog or just those?


 
First 4 lights:

E2L
E1L
L5
L1

I do not know if they are all in the new catalog. If I had to guess I would say no, just the 4 lights listed above. New catalogs and calenders come out next week though.

I apologize for not having all the answers, I did the best I could with the time I had available. I hope you guys understand.


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

So these are the first four then:

E1L 30 lumens / E2L 45 lumens / L1 65 lumens / L5 120 lumens

When will the "TITAN" be available? Any word if it will still be infinitely adjustable, run on both CR2/AAA batteries and retain the magnetic latch of the prototype? Did you receive any information as to how many lumens the L6 would have? Also, do you know how they plan to differentiate the Cree versions? Lots of questions.

Is your rep at SHOT SHOW by any chance?


----------



## slick228 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> So these are the first four then:
> 
> E1L 30 lumens / E2L 45 lumens / L1 65 lumens / L5 120 lumens


This is kind of strange. The L1 has always been parallel with the KL1. The new L1 is supposed to be pumping out 65 lumens and the new KL1 is dishing out a measly 25 lumens. I guess the new L1 is going to be driven harder with short run time and the new KL1 is going to be driven moderately with long run time. Are my assumptions correct?


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

I do not think the L1 with 65lm will have a short runtime on high at all ... something in the ballpark of 1.5 - 2 hours or so. Those new LEDs are that efficient and powerful.
The KX1 however seems to have an insane runtime then ... which is a very interesting option as it now becomes a totally different light for different application.
bernie


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> New catalogs and calenders come out next week though.



*Calenders? *I've never seen calenders, where do we get those?


----------



## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

With all the delays we've seen for the Milspec version of the KROMA do you think maybe when it eventually ships it will have a Cree right from the start?


----------



## daveman (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

To Outdoors Fanatic:

I hear you, bro.

I hate those uncultured hillbillys who will only buy redneck-made over-priced american junk! That's why they worship Surefire.

It's an inferiority complex in light of other manufacturers' excellent quality and affordable price.



It's not your fault that Surefires are overpriced, you don't have to defend them, man.





Does this post offend you, Fanatic? If so, I hope you will be more forgiving in your choice of words in future reference to those CPFers who are not financially able to indulge in $500 Surefires or $2000 Gucci tampon holders. You're right, for some people, it certainly is sour grapes, for others, they honestly view such extravagant spending with disdain. But it was unnecessary for you to call them broke asses who can only afford cheap china junks, nobody has called you a rich snob ***, right? 
We're here to share our opinions on flashlights, not each other. However cruel your opinion is, please keep it on flashlights.


----------



## Blindasabat (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Kiessling said:


> I do not think the L1 with 65lm will have a short runtime on high at all ... something in the ballpark of 1.5 - 2 hours or so. Those new LEDs are that efficient and powerful.
> ...


Yeah, the Milky ML1 with U-bin Lux III (hand picked by Milkyspit for most lumens) makes 50-60 lumens at stock L1 drive level (~350-450mA??) so it has the same run time as stock. If Cree are so much more efficient, then at a lower drive level, they should get the same lumens as an ML1 but with longer run time. :rock: 

But if Milkyspit is at ShotShow, then who's making my Milk-Cree L1??? Scott??!?!?!:candle: Kidding of course! Scott, enjoy the show!


----------



## 700club (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> So these are the first four then:
> 
> E1L 30 lumens / E2L 45 lumens / L1 65 lumens / L5 120 lumens
> 
> ...


 
Correct! Also I just confirmed that the L1 is 65 Hi and 10 Low. Surefire is not sure when the Titan will be available but they just told me they are considering manufacturing an aluminium version for less money. I do not know if it is adjustable. The L6 was not mentioned. Part #s will remain the same for the Cree line but do not order for approx 30 days until they move there current stock. Once the current stock is gone the Cree lights will ship. Rep is not at SHOT but buried in there office by phone calls regarding the new Cree line.


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## Beamhead (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

And another thread gets locked.


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## 700club (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KROMATICS said:


> With all the delays we've seen for the Milspec version of the KROMA do you think maybe when it eventually ships it will have a Cree right from the start?


 
No, I doubt it.


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## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Kiessling said:


> I do not think the L1 with 65lm will have a short runtime on high at all ... something in the ballpark of 1.5 - 2 hours or so. Those new LEDs are that efficient and powerful.



This is what confuses me. They are going from a light with 22 lumens in white, red, green and blue to one with 65 lumens, presumably in white only. That's a totally different light. I don't see how they can continue to call it the L1 if this is the case.


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## curtis22 (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



KDOG3 said:


> *Calenders? *I've never seen calenders, where do we get those?



"calender |ˈkaləndər| noun a machine in which cloth or paper is pressed by rollers to glaze or smooth it."


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## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> Correct! Also I just confirmed that the L1 is 65 Hi and 10 Low. Surefire is not sure when the Titan will be available but they just told me they are considering manufacturing an aluminium version for less money. I do not know if it is adjustable. The L6 was not mentioned. Part #s will remain the same for the Cree line but do not order for approx 30 days until they move there current stock. Once the current stock is gone the Cree lights will ship. Rep is not at SHOT but buried in there office by phone calls regarding the new Cree line.



I know that Surefire has made small adjustments to the lumen outputs before but this is much more significant. There is going to be a lot of confusion. How will the average joe know if they are getting an L1 with 22 lumens or 65 lumens? There's a lot of old stock out there. I'm sure some of the more reputable dealers will specify this but others will not. I see a lot of product returns forthcoming.


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## tigermoth2000 (Jan 11, 2007)

Just edited the first post, I’ve added another link.

Joe.


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## Kiessling (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Blindasabat said:


> Yeah, the Milky ML1 with U-bin Lux III (hand picked by Milkyspit for most lumens) makes 50-60 lumens at stock L1 drive level (~350-450mA??) so it has the same run time as stock. If Cree are so much more efficient, then at a lower drive level, they should get the same lumens as an ML1 but with longer run time. :rock:
> 
> But if Milkyspit is at ShotShow, then who's making my Milk-Cree L1??? Scott??!?!?!:candle: Kidding of course! Scott, enjoy the show!




The Milky SPit L1 will not have 50-60lm at 350mA as those are LED-lumens without losses from the photon management system while SF quotes lumens out the business end. 
Put a LED with 50-60lm at 350mA and one with 80+lm at 360mA in a light ... which will be brighter?

Either way ... we'll see soon, I hope. Can't wait.  

bernie


_____________________________

One other thing:

daveman, take a week off for disregarding CPF rules and moderation in addition to that.

If the personal attacks and childish behaviour in an otherwise fun and exciting thread won't cease the thread will be heavily edited and people will get significant time-outs, but the thread will not be closed.


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## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Kiessling said:


> The Milky SPit L1 will not have 50-60lm at 350mA as those are LED-lumens without losses from the photon management system while SF quotes lumens out the business end.
> Put a LED with 50-60lm at 350mA and one with 80+lm at 360mA in a light ... which will be brighter?
> 
> Either way ... we'll see soon, I hope. Can't wait.



Looks like the *new* L1 is going to be a must have. They should call it the L1X though.


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## Chronos (Jan 11, 2007)

Wow, I cannot wait. I only hope the new L1 utilizes a reflector vs. the TIROS optic system. My Milky L1 cree on a reflector is a site to be seen; with the deeper KL1 head I think a deeper reflector would be a real gain vs. the TIROS optic system. Or adapt a beam pattern closer to the Kromas.


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## Blindasabat (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Kiessling said:


> The MilkySpit L1 will not have 50-60lm at 350mA as those are LED-lumens without losses from the photon management system while SF quotes lumens out the business end.


I have compared my UW0J (hand picked as a hugh performing emitter, even for a U-bin) ML1 with a range of lights of known Lumens from reviewrs including FLR up to my HDS B60. The ML1 on a primary CR123 is putting out the exact same brightness (and beam so it easy to compare) as my good P1 (best of two I've had) on RCR123 and just less than the B60, so I guess right around 50 lumens. I just don't know what amps it runs on, I remember reading it was kind of low somewhere. Especially if it runs over 2 hrs on one CR123 before dropping out of regulation (FLR).


Kiessling said:


> Put a LED with 50-60lm at 350mA and one with 80+lm at 360mA in a light ... which will be brighter?


Not disputing THAT...
What I said was that an ML1 already pushes close to 60 lumens (stock L1 ~22Lm on same current), the Cree will undoubtedly run longer if it only has 65 lumens, and it must run at lower amps or it would be brighter - 80 lumens like you say. BUT, it could be under-rated like SF tends to do, and actually get ~80Lm too. 
Time and reviews will tell.


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## carrot (Jan 11, 2007)

Wait, huh? Are Cree XLamps powering Surefire's new LED lights, or Cree XR-E's? The XR-E is the more efficient one that everyone's talking about now...


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## cheapo (Jan 11, 2007)

carrot said:


> Wait, huh? Are Cree XLamps powering Surefire's new LED lights, or Cree XR-E's? The XR-E is the more efficient one that everyone's talking about now...



as far as i know the cree xre is a cree xlamp. Xlamp is simply a name for cree LEDs as far as i know, but i am not at all sure.


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## carrot (Jan 11, 2007)

cheapo said:


> as far as i know the cree xre is a cree xlamp. Xlamp is simply a name for cree LEDs as far as i know, but i am not at all sure.


Come to think of it, I'm not sure. All I know is that my CR2 Ion has what's called an XLamp and the new CR2 Ion Ti is XR-E.


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## KROMATICS (Jan 11, 2007)

The XLamp is just the name of their LEDs but worry not, the press release specifically states Surefire is using the XR-E variant with all it's extra lumen and runtime goodness. 

I can't believe we *still* don't know what was announced today. What gives? Time for bed soon. :sleepy:


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## fire-stick (Jan 12, 2007)

So how many lumens would the creed L1 be if they ran the LED full tilt?


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## Chronos (Jan 12, 2007)

We'll have to see what level the L1 is run at. My modded L1 is running at 350-400mA.

Per a chart on one of Erasmus' sales threads for a P4 Cree the output should be from 85.67 to 95.75 lumens before reflector and window losses at 350-400mA.


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## N162E (Jan 12, 2007)

Chronos said:


> We'll have to see what level the L1 is run at. My modded L1 is running at 350-400mA.


They are claiming a 17 hour run time which in my book converts to a lot less than 350-400ma. Like maybe more like 225ma?


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## Raven (Jan 12, 2007)

All I know is that I have an old 9P that needs some new Cree lovin 

C'mon SF, make it happen!


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## Chronos (Jan 12, 2007)

N162E said:


> They are claiming a 17 hour run time which in my book converts to a lot less than 350-400ma. Like maybe more like 225ma?


I probably missed the runtime estimates elsewhere in this thread- is that 17 hours on high? If so, I'd guess it is _well _below the stock 350-400mA that my light uses. Or is this a combined high then low runtime?


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## N162E (Jan 12, 2007)

Chronos said:


> I probably missed the runtime estimates elsewhere in this thread- is that 17 hours on high? If so, I'd guess it is _well _below the stock 350-400mA that my light uses. Or is this a combined high then low runtime?


I don't think the L1 has two speeds.


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## Blindasabat (Jan 12, 2007)

N162E said:


> I don't think the L1 has two speeds.


They do. ...Both mine do.

700club said the 17 hour time was "useable output" including a long trailing off output. Not the way Surefire usually states run time, so I'm a tiny bit concerned. We need to hear a "max output" run time.


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## Chronos (Jan 12, 2007)

Blindasabat said:


> They do. ...Both mine do.
> 
> 700club said the 17 hour time was "useable output" including a long trailing off output. Not the way Surefire usually states run time, so I'm a tiny bit concerned. We need to hear a "max output" run time.



Exactly!  L1 is a two level light. I want to see the high runtime. I believe mine is somewhere between 60 - 90 minutes; I still haven't killed my first primary cell in my modded L1 and I've used it on two hikes and numerous walks, as well as the kids playing light sabers with it.  Hence the value of a Cree to me- longer runtimes with at least the same output vs. a good bin LuxIII.


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## KROMATICS (Jan 12, 2007)

Details are finally starting to trickle in. I hope to have some specs and pictures to post soon. 


Look for updates in this thread:
Orlando - Shot Show Events and Experiences


The Surefire Titan will be infinitely adjustable like the Gatlight only much more precise.

The new L1 is a little bit shorter than the old one. It's brighter and has a very round beam for an optic.

The new L5 uses an optic as well.


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## LOBOLUMENS (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



Hellbore said:


> Quoted from your profile:
> 
> 
> Streamlight Strion = Made in China


 
Way to go Hellbore! The irony was not missed here! Just wished you hadn't made me spit coke all over my monitor.


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## Kiessling (Jan 12, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*

LOBOLUMENS ... you didn't get the hint. Take a week off and think it over.
:banned:
bernhard


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## NewBie (Jan 13, 2007)

fire-stick said:


> So how many lumens would the creed L1 be if they ran the LED full tilt?






Chronos said:


> We'll have to see what level the L1 is run at. My modded L1 is running at 350-400mA.
> 
> Per a chart on one of Erasmus' sales threads for a P4 Cree the output should be from 85.67 to 95.75 lumens before reflector and window losses at 350-400mA.




If one were to run full tilt (1A?), you'd be up into the 200 lumen range, before losses, if you heatsinked it well.


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## Chronos (Jan 13, 2007)

Here's a graphic from Erasmus' P4 sales threads showing estimated output at different mA levels. I hope it is ok to provide this graphic here.


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## NewBie (Jan 14, 2007)

Jtr1962 and I came up with nearly the same results for the low binned one, for lm/W:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1746532&postcount=78


Here is another chart, for measured lumens vs. current for the low P3 binned one:








jtr1962 got the numbers for the P4 here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1740912&postcount=74

.


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## 700club (Jan 15, 2007)

Good Update:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1788884&highlight=titan#post1788884


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## enLIGHTenment (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: Surefire's going Cree!*



700club said:


> E2L 45 lum 18hr run time



These numbers don't add up. At this drive level, the XR-E has been measured to get about 85lm/w. Ignoring optics and converter losses, getting the emitter to do 45 lm would require about 530mw. Holding that up for 18 hours means a battery pack capable of at least 9W/hr. 9W/hr+ out of two 123As rated ~3.5W/hr each? Not very likely.

Surefire looks to be playing games with their runtime numbers. Figure on perhaps four to five hours at full brightness followed by a long tail of increasingly dim light.

A pox on Surefire's house for engaging in the same kind of marketing as the "8 Watt" Ebay crowd. For what their products cost, they should do better. :thumbsdow


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## softfeel (Jan 20, 2007)

Video showing new Surefire lights with Cree at ShotShow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75g07KXYsuI&NR


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## Size15's (Jan 20, 2007)

Note that these new products from SureFire have not yet been released and the ratings not yet finalised. The good thing about runtime ratings is that we can quite easily check them ourselves. Perhaps it is best to wait until SureFire releases these new products and check the runtime against rating SureFire provides with the product?


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## lukestephens777 (Feb 26, 2007)

Anyone got any new information on the Surefire Cree model line up?


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## winger (Jan 15, 2008)

*E1L Cree's actual run-time is 10 hrs (NOT 17 hrs)*

Don't know if this is the place to post, but three SF reps, including one from tech support confirms E1L Cree's runtime is 10 hrs as stated on website, NOT 17hrs as stated on their downloadable 2007 catalog.


----------

