# Fake Ultrafire 18650 battery warning



## xxllmm4

Hey everyone,

Just thought I would pass this along to any new people to the board. About a year ago I bought some Ultrafire 3000mah 18650's off ebay for about $3 ea shipped. They turned out to be about 2250mah but for the price I didn't complain too much. So about 6 weeks ago I ordered some more  some protected and some not, 2 separate sellers on Ebay. I got out my Imax B6 charger and did some discharge tests at 1A and1400mah was the best. A couple where dead and some came in at about 70... yes 70mah. I opened them up and this is what I found. NONE of them match! 




Clearly recycled, old spot welds where ground off. The unprotected batteries where not even 18650's they had some weird thick plastic cover to make them thicker.




These things could be really scary in a multi cell flashlight! I did get a full refund from both sellers, so if you get any fakes by all means ask for a refund and let other people know, these batteries are to dangerous to play around with.


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## HotWire

This is why Redilast and AW batteries come so highly recommended!


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## Norm

What your seeing is pretty much normal for cheap Chinese cells, I doubt they are fake.
Norm



xxllmm4 said:


> I opened them up and this is what I found. NONE of them match!
> Clearly recycled, old spot welds where ground off. The unprotected batteries where not even 18650's they had some weird thick plastic cover to make them thicker.


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## xxllmm4

> This is why Redilast and AW batteries come so highly recommended!



No kidding, brands you can actually trust! This adventure has actually prompted me to import our own batteries, they should be here in a few days


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## Sugarboy

Norm said:


> What your seeing is pretty much normal for cheap Chinese cells, I doubt they are fake.
> Norm


 
x2


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## 45/70

Sugarboy said:


> Originally Posted by *Norm*
> 
> What your seeing is pretty much normal for cheap Chinese cells, I doubt they are fake.
> Norm
> 
> 
> 
> x2
Click to expand...


x3

Sounds about right for UltraFire. As I just mentioned in another thread, you never know what you're going to get with the "Fire" brands, as well as a lot of the others. Their suppliers change almost daily. It's only the wrapper on the cells that stays the same. Actually, those sometimes change too!

Dave


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## Norm

Fire brands are "like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get." 

Norm


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## xxllmm4

I would love to try and track down some real Ultrafire 3000's if such a thing exists. But I fear I would have better luck tracking down Bigfoot (no offense to Bigfoot believers :thumbsup

There is at least one test where the ultrafire 3000 did quite well, maybe they got a Panasonic 2900 recycled in the mix? http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/Battery 18650 UK.html


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## HKJ

xxllmm4 said:


> There is at least one test where the ultrafire 3000 did quite well, maybe they got a Panasonic 2900 recycled in the mix? http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/Battery 18650 UK.html


 
I do not call 2400-2500 mAh for a battery rated 3000mAh "quite well", but it looks like that is the expected capacity for that cell, I got the same the this year with a new batch of cells.


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## xxllmm4

> I do not call 2400-2500 mAh for a battery rated 3000mAh "quite well", but it looks like that is the expected capacity for that cell, I got the same the this year with a new batch of cells.



Actually yes I would say they did quite well, their near the top in all the tests. As advertised? No not even close. and thanks for doing the tests! Have you done any testing regarding life expectancy?


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## HKJ

xxllmm4 said:


> Actually yes I would say they did quite well, their near the top in all the tests. As advertised? No not even close. and thanks for doing the tests! Have you done any testing regarding life expectancy?


 
If it was marked 2400 or 2500 it would do fine, but when it is marked 3000 it is way below specs. It also has a rather high internal resistance.
I have not tested anything about life expectancy.


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## xxllmm4

> It also has a rather high internal resistance.


I would think a new battery that started out with a high internal resistance would be prone to a short like.


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## bshanahan14rulz

some sonys and maybe sanyos? Sony Fukushima us18650gr rated at 2.2Ah, IIRC.

Still, what the hell? They have a big barrel of random batteries, both name brand and generic rejects or something? and they just put the wrappers on them.


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## xxllmm4

> They have a big barrel of random batteries, both name brand and generic rejects or something? and they just put the wrappers on them.



Yeah pretty much looks that way. BTW one of them was a Sony US18650VT their supposed to be good for 15A discharges. But their not JUST rejects, they are used. All of them had tabs pulled off or ground off. On one of the DOA cells the protection board was not even spot welded to the battery. They missed it! :thumbsup:


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## cave dave

I always wondered what happened to the LiIon batteries I put in the recycle bins. I did hear they get sent to China for recycling. I thought that meant taking them apart for the rare earth elements inside, not putting a new wrapper on them and selling them back to the US on ebay.


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## BoarHunter

The "FIRE" in the name IS the WARNING and it means it !


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## BoarHunter

cave dave said:


> I always wondered what happened to the LiIon batteries I put in the recycle bins. I did hear they get sent to China for recycling. I thought that meant taking them apart for the rare earth elements inside, not putting a new wrapper on them and selling them back to the US on ebay.



I prefer this type of recycling instead of finding these recycled products in the food chain !


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## Sugarboy

BoarHunter said:


> I prefer this type of recycling instead of finding these recycled products in the food chain !


 
hope you're just joking.


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## jasonck08

Most of the cells are in the picture are recycled Sanyo, and then I see a couple Sony cells there. I'm not sure about the one that says 1617.

Not too surprising... you get what you pay for.



cave dave said:


> I always wondered what happened to the LiIon batteries I put in the recycle bins. I did hear they get sent to China for recycling. I thought that meant taking them apart for the rare earth elements inside, not putting a new wrapper on them and selling them back to the US on ebay.


 
Oh but they are getting $3 per cell "recycling" them this way.


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## KiwiMark

I bought some AW cells and I got what AW said he was supplying. They cost more, but they are exactly as advertised. I'm not too sure that it is cheaper to buy cheaper products - most of the time you just pay the cheaper price and then the dearer price to replace them with what you should have bought in the first place. AW cells should be good for hundreds of charges and ~ 3-5 years of use, they really don't work out to be very expensive at all. Cheaper cells will often clap out on you within a year, even if they work OK when you first get them - pay more and get some quality cells.


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## mvyrmnd

I think that this shows the difference between 'cheap' and 'inexpensive'. These batteries are cheap.


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## jasonck08

Do everyone on eBay a favor and leave that seller negative feedback (even though they refunded you). What they are doing is not only unethical but is also dangerous and could lead to someone getting hurt!

I would also report the auction to eBay (report counterfeit product) and also give eBay staff a link to this thread.


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## mfm

HKJ said:


> I do not call 2400-2500 mAh for a battery rated 3000mAh "quite well", but it looks like that is the expected capacity for that cell, I got the same the this year with a new batch of cells.



They have been tested at over 2900 mAh: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...50-with-3000mAh-from-KD&p=2884072#post2884072



Norm said:


> What your seeing is pretty much normal for cheap Chinese cells, I doubt they are fake.



I know of the common misconception on CPF is that there are factories all over China that slap on random X-fire labels and that there is no "real" Ultrafire or "Trustfire" but It's still completely wrong.


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## 45/70

mfm said:


> I know of the common misconception on CPF is that there are factories all over China that slap on random X-fire labels and that there is no "real" Ultrafire or "Trustfire" but It's still completely wrong.



Nobody ever said these companies don't exist, or are not "real". If nothing else I personally have quite a few cells that I could show pictures of, as proof they exist!

There _are Li-Ion manufacturers all over China._ China is by far the largest producer of lithium ion cells in the world, that's a fact that cannot be disputed. There _are_ literally hundreds of Li-Ion cell factories in China.

It's also pretty well known that the various xxxxxFire labels and such are just that, labels, that are "slapped" on cells _originating_ _from these factories_ and other sources _by various_ _distributors_ (not the manufacturers) such as UltraFire. The manufacturers don't "slap" these labels on, distributors such as UltraFire do. They can put their label on whatever cells they want, from whoever they source their cells from. This apparently includes recycled cells, as well.

It's not as big a mystery as many think it is, although exact details of sourcing and such, _is likely to remain a mystery._ If I were xxxxxFire, I sure wouldn't want to make this information available, for obvious reasons. And in China, they are under no obligation whatsoever to make this information available to the consumer, unlike in most other countries.

I also want to make it clear that not all cells from China's Li-Ion cell manufacturers are low quality. Many are quite good. In most cases however, the cells that distributors such as UltraFire get from these factories are ones that didn't make the grade for battery pack making, and/or are "seconds". These cells are sold off at a considerably lower price, and this is reflected (usually) in the distributors pricing of their cells.

Dave


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## Helmut.G

cave dave said:


> I always wondered what happened to the LiIon batteries I put in the recycle bins. I did hear they get sent to China for recycling. I thought that meant taking them apart for the rare earth elements inside, not putting a new wrapper on them and selling them back to the US on ebay.


You get what you pay for, still this is crazy!
Definitely report that ebay seller and leave a negative feedback. What these guys are doing is careless, even though everyone buying "3000 mAh" batteries for 3$ each doesn't deserve much better. If an offer sounds too good to be true, you should try to find out if it is.

This should be made a sticky in my opinion, to protect new guys that lack the experience to recognize you just don't get a 3000 mAh cell for a few bucks, and to remind all others of what dangerous crap is around.


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## nfetterly

Having done business in China - if you find a good quality suppler stick with them, but still audit them.

I think I'll bookmark this so that when I see a post "What inexpensive cells are good?" I can point him this way.


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## cdrake261

Uh oh...just bought a pair of protected ultrafire 14600 from batteryjunction....go me worried now


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## Helmut.G

cdrake261 said:


> Uh oh...just bought a pair of protected ultrafire 14600 from batteryjunction....go me worried now


you mean 14500, do you? Never heard of 14600s.
I don't think batteryjunction sells obviously fake and not working stuff like the batteries discussed above, but be aware that even real ultrafire batteries are still very low quality and will not last long in many cases. It probably saves you money in the long run to buy better quality.


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## tre

This is pretty scary. Another reason to stick with AW or Redilast.


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## subwoofer

Apparently only certain Ultrafire batteries are new. This guy did a load of tests and posted a useful reference guide. I used this to pick the best Ultrafire batteries.

http://www.torchythebatteryboy.com/p/batteries_21.html

It certainly is underhanded of Ultrafire to repackage old cells as new and not make this clear. I wish I could afford AW cells as there look great...

I can hardly believe anyone would fake Ultrafire products, they would just make their own like ScorpionFire, or FireyFire


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## Helmut.G

subwoofer said:


> It certainly is underhanded of Ultrafire to repackage old cells as new and not make this clear. I wish I could afford AW cells as there look great...


I haven't got any AW 18650s either, but I've been thinking for a while if it actually saves me anything at all in the long run. I'd love to see some data on the actual life span of AW cells. The life span of the Trustfire cells I'm using sure isn't great.


subwoofer said:


> I can hardly believe anyone would fake Ultrafire products, they would just make their own like ScorpionFire, or FireyFire


there definitely are fake ultrafire cells around, some of them have capacity ratings not even listed on the ultrafire homepage. whoever sells them obviously thinks they can profit by faking a "reputable" brand.


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## 45/70

subwoofer said:


> It certainly is underhanded of Ultrafire to repackage old cells as new and not make this clear. I wish I could afford AW cells as there look great...



That's the thing many don't understand. In my experience, AW's cells actually are cheaper, or in the worst case, cost the same, but are less trouble because they last so much longer. This applies to Redilast and a few other dealers as well, that actually use quality cells. AW has a much wider range of choices as far as sizes and such though.

Dave


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## 45/70

Helmut.G said:


> I haven't got any AW 18650s either, but I've been thinking for a while if it actually saves me anything at all in the long run. I'd love to see some data on the actual life span of AW cells. The life span of the Trustfire cells I'm using sure isn't great.



Helmut, you might want to check out the thread I linked to above.

Dave


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## SHADE02

Norm said:


> Fire brands are "like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."
> 
> Norm


 
haha epic


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## cdrake261

Here's the batteries I ordered...expected to arrive tomorrow. 

http://www.batteryjunction.com/protected-14500-lithium.html

I would like to measure volts and amperage, you guys have any certain way of measuring them?


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## Helmut.G

here's what I do:
get yourself a $5 digital multimeter (can be more expensive of course if you want to spend more). measure the voltage before you put them in the charger. overdischarged cells exploding in the charger make up a large part of reported incidents. toss any cells below 3.0V, closely watch any cells between 3 and 3.5 V.
measure voltage when you take the cells out of the charger a few times to determine if it overcharges them.
measure resting voltage an hour or so after charge, then let them sit for a few days after being charged and measure voltage again. dispose off cells that don't hold a charge.

never run the cells down until the protection kicks in, and you should be good.

edit: I forgot: use common sense. If a cell seems to perform weakly, dispose off it rather than trying to use it further.


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## KiwiMark

In my own experience the Li-ion cells you can buy are usually good, OK or junk. You really want the good ones, but you can get some OK ones nice & cheap. The junk cells are what you definitely need to avoid.

Cells like the Panasonic 2900 would be in the 'good category and AW has some protected 2900 18650s based on these cells. I have some AW 2200 & AW 2600 cells that still perform excellently.

From DX:
Trustfire 2400 protected cells in the black/red/flames wrapper seem to be OK and at only $10 for 2 cells they are a good budget option.
Trustfire 2500 unprotected cells in the blue wrapper seem to be the other good choice (dearer but better than the grey wrapper 2500 cells).

The Ultrafire 3000 & Ultrafire 3600 seem to be cells to definitely avoid, they are nowhere near living up to their claims and you can get better performance out of the lower rated cells that cost less money.


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## cdrake261

Got my ultrafire batteries in.... one measured 3.67v and the other one measured 1.33v


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## Helmut.G

cdrake261 said:


> Got my ultrafire batteries in.... one measured 3.67v and the other one measured 1.33v


write to batteryjunction that you want a replacement for the one that measures 1.33V.


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## cdrake261

Helmut.G said:


> write to batteryjunction that you want a replacement for the one that measures 1.33V.


 
The customer service guy insisted I charge it anyways...I insisted that I return it. God I can't wait for my aw 14500's to come in


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## Helmut.G

cdrake261 said:


> The customer service guy insisted I charge it anyways...I insisted that I return it. God I can't wait for my aw 14500's to come in


 
DON'T CHARGE IT.

Li-Ion batteries that show a voltage as low as that are dead and potentially dangerous when being charged.

it's a different case if the voltage shown is 0.00 V. that's a sign that the protection circuit was activated and has "locked" the battery. in that case putting it in a charger will "unlock" the circuit.


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## cdrake261

Helmut.G said:


> DON'T CHARGE IT.
> 
> Li-Ion batteries that show a voltage as low as that are dead and potentially dangerous when being charged.
> 
> it's a different case if the voltage shown is 0.00 V. that's a sign that the protection circuit was activated and has "locked" the battery. in that case putting it in a charger will "unlock" the circuit.


 
Yea...don't buy from battery junction, it bothers me that they are selling dangerous batteries and wish I knew before I ordered from this. Returning for a refund!


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## thamster

Just bought four UltraFire 18650 3800mAh (yeah right) from eBay. As expected, none of them tested anywhere near 3800mAh. Two were around 1900mAh (at .5A discharge), the other two were under 1000mAh.

When I complained, the seller had the gall to offer me first a 30% refund, then a 50% refund. No thanks. Half the price is not worth getting two barely usable recycled 18650 cells. I could have just taken apart one of my old dead laptop battery and pulled cells that are the same capacity for free. 

I left a negative feedback, but unfortunately the seller has tons of positive feedbacks saying 'great product!'. Most buyers have no way to test the cells it seems. As long as it charges, they assume they are getting what they paid for. eBay doesn't seem to care either, I've reported the listing twice.

The seller's name is americanstorexx.


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## nerrad

Fell into the same trap. I bought a couple of these from different venders on Ebay and where different each batch. I will not buy anymore and invest in better batteries next time.


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## mfm

45/70 said:


> It's also pretty well known that the various xxxxxFire labels and such are just that, labels, that are "slapped" on cells _originating_ _from these factories_ and other sources _by various_ _distributors_ (not the manufacturers) such as UltraFire. The manufacturers don't "slap" these labels on, distributors such as UltraFire do. They can put their label on whatever cells they want, from whoever they source their cells from. This apparently includes recycled cells, as well.
> 
> It's not as big a mystery as many think it is, although exact details of sourcing and such, _is likely to remain a mystery._ If I were xxxxxFire, I sure wouldn't want to make this information available, for obvious reasons. And in China, they are under no obligation whatsoever to make this information available to the consumer, unlike in most other countries.


 
My points more clearly stated:


There is just one real UltraFire company and one real TrustFire company.
If you buy the cheapest "UltraFire" or "TrustFire" cells you can find on ebay you will get FAKES *not* from the companies mentioned in 1.
So conclusions of the type "but this UltraFire 4000 mAh i got off ebay was this or that so all UltraFire this or that" are not valid.
The official UltraFire shop even warns people not to buy from DX because they sell fake UltraFire products.


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## pinetree89

My experience has been the eBay stuff is usually crap. I ordered some "ultrafire" RCR123s off ebay. The cells ended up being way too long. Almost like somebody had a normal sized unprotected 16340, added the protection circuitry and the shrink wrap and called it good. 

What I have had good luck with:
All AW batteries
Flame Trustfire 18650s from DX
Gray Ultrafire RCRs from DX

However DX is such a crapshoot that I'll probably pony up the extra cash next time for AW's again. In the market for a few more RCRs and 17670s.

I love LiCo cells. It's too bad there's so many ways to get bad ones out there.


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## Helmut.G

pinetree89 said:


> I ordered some "ultrafire" RCR123s off ebay. The cells ended up being way too long. Almost like somebody had a normal sized unprotected 16340, added the protection circuitry and the shrink wrap and called it good.


That's how they do it. And the protection circuit boards aren't on the small side either.




pinetree89 said:


> I love LiCo cells. It's too bad there's so many ways to get bad ones out there.


I share those feelings. I love them because they don't self-discharge and you don't have to worry about their health when you use them right.
Most of the cheap ones do not live up to these expectations, however.


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## HomeSlice

Please help a confused newbie out.

I just dropped $64 on 6 new ultrafire 3000 mah 18650's from battery junction. I'm not a rich dude, and $60+ means a lot to me.

I've never had an issue w/ BJ.com before, they've always done me alright, which is why I took the leap on these.

They seem to power my Olight M20 and Fenix TK35 OK, but I'm unclear what to measure to confirm capacity. I do have a cheapo $5 multimeter, but nothing fancy.

Please help me evaluate how screwed (or not) I got, based on data I can reasonably collect, while I still have time for recourse.

Alternatively, what would you have bought for reliable batteries in the same price/capacity range which was advertised? I always thought bj.com to be a respectable source -- is that not the case?

Thanks,
-Slice

Post #1 I think, though long time lurker. Ducking for cover.


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## JacobJones

So are the ultrafire batteries sold by eBay sellers and battery junction fake? I suppose it must be hard to tell seeing as genuine ones are junk aswell. 
I wonder if the sellers are knowingly selling fakes (if they are fakes).


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## cdrake261

JacobJones said:


> So are the ultrafire batteries sold by eBay sellers and battery junction fake? I suppose it must be hard to tell seeing as genuine ones are junk aswell.
> I wonder if the sellers are knowingly selling fakes (if they are fakes).



Buying them from eBay is almost garentee junk and batteryjunction accidently sold me a fake ultrafire as voltage was below 3v. Actually I measured them at 1.8v IIRC...

Buy AW lithium ions from lighthound and you'll be alright.


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## march.brown

My Ultrafires were bought about two years ago and mainly bought off Ebay ... I must have been very lucky as they are still working OK ... Snag is that I don't know the actual age of these cells ... They might even be old stock ... Since I don't top them up very often , my batteries will probably die of old age rather than too many cycles.

I have protected (grey) and unprotected (blue) batteries and I'm perfectly happy with them all ... When they die , I will just buy a couple more as necessary to maintain stocks ... I only keep three spares , so that is no problem.

I guestimate the amount of use the torches get and then measure the volts when I think they have run about three hours ... If the volts are down below 4.0 volts I top them up ... Usually I get it right at about 3.8 or 3.9 volts which I prefer ... I have never run them down to 3.6 volts.

Sometimes my spares remain unused for several months but they still measure well over 4.1 volts and usually nearer to the 4.2 volts ... If I ever notice that a spare is below 4.0 volts I will top it up and see what it is like after another few months ... If it fails then I will simply buy another couple of Ultrafires.

My system works for me , but I am not in a life or death situation ... If a Li-Ion torch dies in use , I always carry two ITP-A3's and an ITP-A2 as well.

Too many torches is just enough.
.


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## andrewnewman

Regarding Ultrafire, it is possible that:

1. They source from various Chinese suppliers of Li-Ion bare cells and thus the quality is a crapshoot.
2. They are totally irresponsible and re-sell "recycled" batteries in all sorts of conditions of deterioration with their wrapper on them.
3. They are a sufficiently reputable company that counterfeit Ultrafire cells are now in circulation that are of very low quality.

I'm not sure which if any of these is true and I have not yet run across anyone who has absolute proof one way or the other (e.g. someone in the industry or a credible representative from Ultrafire).

What I am sure of is that Matt K. and the other folks at Batteryjunction are running a firm with an excellent reputation here in CT who have never failed to meet or exceed my expectations as a long time customer. They may have received some old stock from a supplier or even received counterfeit Ultrafires unknowingly. 

I believe Matt would want to know if:

1. His customer service rep. was advising people to recharge batteries that had dangerously low voltage.
2. He had old or counterfeit batteries in his warehouse.
3. He had a supplier he couldn't count on for fresh genuine products.

My experience strongly suggests that Matt would remedy any of these if they were brought to his attention.


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## Learjet

Well I've been had. I bought a flashlight / battery / charger combo deal on evilbay from China. The flashlight, I love it. The batteries though are absolute rubbish. They are Ultrafire red 3000mah. Both cells read 3.9V when they first arrived in the mail and before charging. Testing them using a Turnigy Accucell 8150 multipurpose hobby charger, from fully charged and then discharging them at 1 amp discharge rate from 4.2V to 3.0V... Cell 1 only had a capacity of 226 mah and cell 2 a non whopping 47mah! 

Of course they are too weak to run anything. 

Under the red wrapping was a small circuit board at the - end and the cell was a silver unmarked noname. They don't even roll properly on the table. They are heavy on one side like loaded dice.


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## KiwiMark

Learjet said:


> Well I've been had.



That really sucks!

Lesson learned though - check on these forums before buying batteries to ensure you are getting good ones.


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## 45/70

Double post. Apparent forum hiccup.


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## 45/70

There is a widespread misunderstanding throughout the Forums. Many appear to have fallen prey to "clever" marketing tactics, used by many Chinese distributors.

It seems many, do not understand that there is nothing "ultra" about UltraFire, except maybe the products they offer are "ultracheap". This refers to the quality of the merchandise, not necessarily the price.

I missed Andrew's post above, but find some of his suggestions interesting.



andrewnewman said:


> 1. They source from various Chinese suppliers of Li-Ion bare cells and thus the quality is a crapshoot.
> 2. They are totally irresponsible and re-sell "recycled" batteries in all sorts of conditions of deterioration with their wrapper on them.



This is true, and applies to most Chinese distributors, not just UltraFire. As seems to be evident, they also source cells from various recalled, or recycled battery packs. These packs actually, often contain cells manufactured in Korea and Japan, as well as China. Many of the recalled battery packs may actually contain cells that are considered defective, for one reason or another. 

As for recycled cells, many Li-Ion cells that are recycled are sent to China. As any avid recycler is well aware of, "reuse" is much more effective than breaking down a product into it's basic elements for re-manufacturing. It is both more environmentally friendly, as well as being much more cost effective to the recycling operator. In the case of Li-Ion cells, just slap a new label on the "recycled" cell, market it at a much cheaper price than a "new" cell, and you're done.



> 3. They are a sufficiently reputable company that counterfeit Ultrafire cells are now in circulation that are of very low quality.



The idea of counterfeit "UltraFire" cells, always cracks me up. Since their founding, a few years ago I, and many others, have purchased and used, many UltraFire products. The general consensus is, that their products are among about the lowest quality products available, particularly when it comes to Li-Ion cells. Their lights and electronics don't fare much better, but that is not the topic of this discussion. At any rate, it is absurd to suggest that anyone would attempt to counterfeit UltraFire Li-Ion cells, or anything else they market, for that matter. It just wouldn't make any sense to fake "crap".



> I'm not sure which if any of these is true and I have not yet run across anyone who has absolute proof one way or the other (e.g. someone in the industry or a credible representative from Ultrafire).



I seriously doubt that you will ever see an UltraFire representative here on the Forums (which probably are a major source of their customer base). They've had many chances over the years to appear, but have apparently declined. This is likely because they don't actually have "a credible representative". OK, that may not actually be true. If they did have one though, and the person was truthful, the danger of letting "the cat out of the bag" would outweigh any benefit to participating on the Forums.

As for the products sold by CPF dealers, as well as others, they are running a business. If there is demand for a product, they're going to offer it. It makes no difference whether the product is unreliable, undependable, or even to some degree unsafe, dealers are going to include it in their lineup. It would be foolish to not offer a product that every other dealer is selling in significant quantities. That's the nature of business, supply and demand. Fortunately, CPF dealers are easy to work with, and if you do have a problem, they'll fix it. In my experience anyway, that, they're quite good at.

On a final note I'd like to point out something that I think many members are unaware of. There is only one reputable "Fire" brand, and that is the U.S. based "SureFire". All of the other Ultra, Trust, Spyder, Fandy, Unique, Crapy, Bangy, and rapidly propagating "Fire" brands, have only been around a few years, are of Chinese origin, and are distributors (not manufacturers) that play (apparently quite successfully) on the "SureFire" brand name.

Laser Products Corporation was a company that originated in the U.S. in the late 1970s or early 1980s, as a spinoff of Newport Corporation, which was founded in the 1970s. Around the turn of the century the name was changed to "SureFire", an existing product line, at the time. SureFire is, and has been, a major supplier of flashlights and laser mounted gun sights for the U.S. military and U.S. law enforcement agencies, for many years, and is based in Fountain Valley, California U.S.A.

Rant concluded,

Dave


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## Learjet

So what you are saying is that there are no "fake" Ultrafire batteries, just that the quality varies wildly and is pot luck... 

The last Ultrafire cells I got do seem to have the performance of used and tired laptop batteries. Just testing the rest of my "Chinafire" cells, they are tired and weak compared to my Sanyo cells also. Well that's the last lot of batteries from China I buy. It will be name brand from now on. I suppose I'll get done with fakes of those now. I can't win.


----------



## Helmut.G

Dave, I do agree that xyzFire products are crap and I think they shouldn't be bought by anybody who wants to get a product worth the money.



45/70 said:


> The idea of counterfeit "UltraFire" cells, always cracks me up. Since their founding, a few years ago I, and many others, have purchased and used, many UltraFire products. The general consensus is, that their products are among about the lowest quality products available, particularly when it comes to Li-Ion cells. Their lights and electronics don't fare much better, but that is not the topic of this discussion. At any rate, it is absurd to suggest that anyone would attempt to counterfeit UltraFire Li-Ion cells, or anything else they market, for that matter. It just wouldn't make any sense to fake "crap".


But I do disagree on the fake cells. It does make sense to fake UltraFire cells. Why?

You wrote it in your own post: 


45/70 said:


> As for the products sold by CPF dealers, as well as others, they are running a business. If there is demand for a product, they're going to offer it. It makes no difference whether the product is unreliable, undependable, or even to some degree unsafe, dealers are going to include it in their lineup. It would be foolish to not offer a product that every other dealer is selling in significant quantities. That's the nature of business, supply and demand.


There is a demand, and sadly, a quite big one.
If there is a demand, it makes sense to fake the products. Selling a completely worthless product under the name of a popular brand is much easier than establishing a new brand.

Even with a much lower profit margin, I believe the guys who sell the fake UltraFires, that are not even working for a few weeks, like the cells this thread is about, still make a better living than many chinese workers.
That's why it makes sense, even though the idea of a fake UltraFire makes me laugh just like you because it's so absurd.


----------



## march.brown

I must have been very lucky with the three lots of Ultrafire batteries that I bought.

Mine are either the Blue (non-protected) or the Silver/Grey (protected) 18650's.

I have had no problems (so far) in the last couple of years or so.

They all seem to hold their charge for a very long time and do everything that I need from a Li-Ion.

Maybe I'm just lucky.
.


----------



## Learjet

My "new" 2400mah blue Ultrafire cells are weak too. At the same 1A discharge to 3V one reads 610mah and the other 793mah. A 2400mah protected flame Trustfire was better but still weak, 1A again to 3V with 1445mah. By comparison a red 2600mah Sanyo had 2769mah to 3V ! I also noticed on my meter that the "ChinaFire" brands have greater voltage drop under load than the Sanyo. 

With today's XML LED's drawing over 2 amps from an 18650, the batteries need to be in good condition otherwise the light just isn't going to perform. I don't see any of these Chinese cells ever being able to drive the LED to it's optimum output. As a practical test with an XML-T6 LED, a 5 minute run with Ultrafire cells the light only gets warm. With the Sanyo it gets hot, obviously being able to drive the LED at full current for longer. In a silly sort of way I suppose ChinaFire cells would protect the LED from burning out if run on high for too long LOL.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

I'd rather my LED burned out than my Li-Ion cell "burn out"


----------



## cedled

Many thanks to the OP for the warning. Saw some of those batteries at a shop recently, and was thinking of getting one or two. Good thing I saw this thread before going back to that shop.


----------



## madecov

This has been one of the best threads I have seen here on CPF.
I have been thinking of picking up a few 18650 cells and was looking at the lower cost fire brands. Now I know I will just wait and save a bit more to get some better cells.


----------



## Colol

I also got some fake ultrafire 3000mah batteries on ebay.
I got 4 batteries, first i checked there voltage and they all measured a little different.
I then tried them in my flashlight (2 at a time) the flashlight just blinked and shutoff whenever in the max mode, in the medium mode it lasted at best for a few mins before shutting off.

On the low mode the flashlight works but is only drawing 0.13-0.14 amps with the batteries at 7.50 volts under load.
On the mid mode the flashlight only draws about 1 amp, and i can see the voltage going down on my multimeter till it gets to around 3.5 volt (for 2 batteries) 
at which point the flashlight turns off and voltage jump to about 7.2 and starts climbing with the flashlight disabled.
When the batteries were fully charged the best 2 of them worked on the max mode for a short time at about 2 amp. ( the other batteries could only hold the max mode for a short blink)

The bottom of the batteries are silver.
Can't see the bottom of these batteries on this website, but there other batteries have copper bottoms with the ultrafire logo, so i am guessing they all should have copper bottoms.
http://www.ultrafire.net/products.asp?enBigClassName=Battery.
Site also lists them as Size : 65mmx Ø18mm Weight: 35g .

My 4 batteries were about 67.5 length not counting the button
The width was about 17.75 with exception to the 40.7g battery that had a width of about 18.09.
The weight was different in each battery. 38.2, 40.7, 38.0, 37.8 grams

None of those values are close to the 35g as listed on the mentioned website that appears to be ultrafire website.
The seller in the auction did mention there weight as 39g, but i am guessing UltraFire does not make 2 versions of this battery with a 35g and a 39g version.

I did not take the wrapper off the batteries yet like the OP did, but with the batteries being this weak it seems there is no point keeping them.


----------



## jasonck08

Sounds like you not only got fake, cells, but they are probably not even 18650 cells, based off your measurements of weight and size. They might have a plastic tube around them like the one in the first post:







I'd recycle them and try to get a refund from the seller, they sound dangerously poor.


----------



## Colol

Ok, i took that 40.7g battery apart, it had some sort of rolled up paper covering the battery.
The paper has a yellow layer in the inside and a white gloss layer on the outside.
And then rolled 3 times around the battery as a paper tube.

Without the paper tube but with the plastic wrapper its now ~38.3g.
Width without plastic wrapper and paper is ~16.64.

I am guessing the bottom metal piece of the battery was attached to it.
The top of the battery seems to have some insulating material under the button.
The battery is metal with black letters " RHA29Z ".
No idea what company this battery is.







a



a



a


----------



## fvdk

Apparently, Ultrafire cares enough about fake Ultrafire products that they opened their own webshop: http://www.ultrafire-shop.net/
It would be interesting to see tests of batteries that are sourced directly from them as than at least it would be clear how original Ultrafire batteries perform.

The only Ultrafire batteries that I have, are the grey protected 16340's and tested in an Solarforce L2M, they outperform my AW and Solarforce 16340's with at least 25% longer runtimes. I now have them for over a year and they still perform very well so I doubt that official Ultrafire's will ever be recycled cells.


----------



## Helmut.G

Colol said:


> Ok, i took that 40.7g battery apart
> 
> [...]



Did *you * cause that dent in the last picture?

What is the battery diameter without the tube?

Make sure to try and put as much information about this as possible in the seller's feedback to warn at least some potential victims.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_106292_1.jpg <- I think this *might* be a fake ultrafire too ;-)


----------



## Helmut.G

bshanahan14rulz said:


> http://img.dxcdn.com/productimages/sku_106292_1.jpg <- I think this *might* be a fake ultrafire too ;-)


Maybe it's the latest *fire brand


----------



## bestsystem

$ 9 for 3000mah seems too cheap to be true. Stick to the panasonic 3100


UltraFire Rechargeable Battery 18650 3.7V 3000mAh



Price *$ 9.00*


----------



## Colol

Helmut.G said:


> Did *you * cause that dent in the last picture?
> 
> What is the battery diameter without the tube?


I don't see how i could have caused that dent by removing the paper, the metal is not soft. 
I think someone would need to hit the battery pretty hard to cause a dent like that.

The diameter is the width i mentioned ~16.64.

Thought my problems got worse.
Now my fake ebay flashlight got ruined 
Was testing some other cheap batteries i got for under $2 for x2 of them.
Kind of funny batteries since it's solid blue (no logo) with 1 line of black printing on it saying "ICR 18650".
But here is the funny part, the bottom of the battery's metal plate has the UltraFire logo with flame and (R) ...
Guess someone at the "recycling" factory got the metal plates mixed up:/

I put the flashlight on the max mode and tested with 2 DMM. (multimeter)
As the voltage started to drop the amperage increased !
Till the point that the voltage got to about ~5.50volts and the current above 3a.
At this point the flashlight shut off, but this time when i turned it back on the light was dimmer in all modes!
So the max mode was like the low mode, and the low mode was super dim.
After opening the flashlight i saw the xm-l led still work so i knew it was the led driver that got ruined. ( driver label says "hx-1150b" )
The new voltage in the flashlight at the 3x xm-l led ( in series ) was ~7.93 high, 4.04 Med, 0.88 low.

Anyhow, i am now more concerned about my $45 flashlight then some cheap batteries 
What i don't understand is, why does the amperage draw from the batteries go up when the voltage goes down?
And does this have anything to do with my flashlight get ruined or is it just a coincidence? i mean after all my flashlight is also a fake.


----------



## Lou Minescence

> What i don't understand is, why does the amperage draw from the batteries go up when the voltage goes down?





The amperage goes up to overcome high resistance. Poor connection.


----------



## Helmut.G

It's completely normal for a regulated flashlight driver to increase battery current when the battery voltage drops, to keep the input and output power constant. (Power is Current times Voltage W=A*V)
I think you should start a new thread in the budget LED flashlights' section describing your problem with the flashlight as this doesn't belong here. I don't think bad batteries ruined the light. Include the model and as much information as you have got.


I asked about the dent because that's even more of a scam, not only selling re-wrapped re-cycled 17670 cells as "3000 mAh 18650", but even far more potentially dangerous obviously physically damaged cells.


----------



## li_gangyi

As the voltage drops, the current will have to increase to supply the same net power to the LEDs. The LED driver takes care of that till the voltage is below what it can work with and then your light finally goes out. 

I'm guessing it's some kinda coincidence, seriously doubt a bad battery can supply a surge enough to fry the driver. Maybe the FET failed on the driver board due to it's inability to handle the larger current at the lower end of the battery voltage.


----------



## Colol

Ok thanks, was just wondering if the batteries had anything to do with it.
I took apart another battery.

Diameter 16.2 ( thought i am not sure were to measure since in the middle of the battery i get as low as 16.06 )
Weight 38g before.
34.9g after removing plastic and paper.

This battery has no marking on it.
Based on the length and small diameter you can tell its a 17670?
Wouldn't the diameter be even to small to qualify for the 17670 cell?

This time i slided the battery out so i only cut the wrapper at the button of the battery. 

a


----------



## march.brown

fvdk said:


> The only Ultrafire batteries that I have, are the grey protected 16340's and tested in an Solarforce L2M, they outperform my AW and Solarforce 16340's with at least 25% longer runtimes. I now have them for over a year and they still perform very well so I doubt that official Ultrafire's will ever be recycled cells.


I have several of the Ultrafire grey protected and a couple of the blue unprotected 18650 cells that I had from DX and off Ebay ... I've had them about two years so far and they are all still working great ... They will probably die of old age as I don't need to charge them very often but I would certainly buy them again ... I haven't done proper automated discharge tests on the cells , but I've run them down to 3.8 volts in one of my Solarforce L2's whilst monitoring the current with my Avo 8 and the voltage with a digital meter ... Not a very technical method , but it was good enough for me to say that the batteries wouldn't collapse after a few minutes use ... I would have no problems in buying any more of these batteries when these ones eventually die ... I have found them to be perfectly satisfactory for my useage.

I don't run them down too low in voltage and usually top them up when they reach 3.8 volts ... I also store my spares fully charged ... For my purposes , I want to have fully charged spares just in case I need them ... I don't want to put a battery on charge before I can use it ... I want it there ready to use ... I realise that I should store my 18650's partly charged in the fridge but mine live in a drawer and are fully charged ... My batteries certainly won't die because of the number of charging cycles and (because of my cruelty to the batteries) I am prepared to buy new grey Ultrafires when needed.
.


----------



## 45/70

march, I believe we've been over this before. It seems that you have hopelessly convinced yourself that somehow, you're actually saving money. In my experience though, cheap cells are more expensive.

Note that in most of the tests in the above link, the cells were typically charged/used about every 1-3 months. In these tests the "quality cells" are AW's and on average are over twice as old, and have about twice as many cycles on them. At best the "xxxxxFire" cells are due for retirement, at worst, they are well beyond this stage of their life. The AW cells on the other hand, in the worst case (the *2200mAh* 18650 cells) appear to be about halfway through their life cycle, eg. they may have 6 more years to go, probably unlikely but......

If you're willing to spend the extra money necessary when using cheap cells and it somehow makes you feel better, then by all means, go ahead and do so. In my experience however, it appears that your just wasting your money, not to mention having to replace your cells 4 or more times as often.:shrug:



march.brown said:


> I also store my spares fully charged ... For my purposes , I want to have fully charged spares just in case I need them ... I don't want to put a battery on charge before I can use it ... I want it there ready to use ... I realise that I should store my 18650's partly charged in the fridge but mine live in a drawer and are fully charged ... My batteries certainly won't die because of the number of charging cycles and (because of my cruelty to the batteries) I am prepared to buy new grey Ultrafires when needed.
> .



I'll go along with storing Li-Ion cells in the fridge is not for everybody. It does however reduce the degradation of the cells by _at least half_ though. With somewhere around 130 Li-Ion cells, I too have _at least_ one spare set of cells fully charged, in addition to those that are in the lights that I am actually using. The other 100+ or so are in the Fridge though.

Dave


----------



## march.brown

45/70 said:


> If you're willing to spend the extra money necessary when using cheap cells and it somehow makes you feel better, then by all means, go ahead and do so. In my experience however, it appears that your just wasting your money, not to mention having to replace your cells 4 or more times as often.:shrug:


 I won't know whether I am doing things the expensive way till my Li-Ions start to die ... However , I can buy three or four of my cheap batteries for the price of one of the AW Li-Ions ... Time will tell (eventually) whether I am doing things the expensive way or not ... You stay with your method and I will stay with mine ... I just can't justify doing things cheaply by buying a dozen or so AW 18650's , when I can do the expensive thing and buy the same number of (so far) reliable cells for a fraction of the price.

I can justify spending a few pounds every few years rather than a fortune (to some of us limited income pensioners) every ten years or so.

Time will tell , assuming that (at my age) I can outlive my cheap batteries ... 
.


----------



## 45/70

OK march, as I said, it's your option. I'm just relaying what I've learned (the hard way) over the 7 years that I've been using Li-Ion cells in flashlights/torches. The majority of the Li-Ion cells that I have, are xxxxxFire cells, or their equivalent. That ratio is changing slowly though, as I rarely buy them anymore. Most of the xxxxxFire cells are little used, and thus will likely become unusable because of age, rather than use. Many are near retirement presently, and are typically 2-3 years old. Their dismal performance helps promote this habit, as well. This often doesn't show up untill they have been cycled a bit, but it always does.

It depends on your actual usage needs of course, but what I have found is that typically, one AW cell will last four times as long as the average xxxxxFire cell. As is shown in the link I provided, in some cases considerably longer than that. Considering this, it brings up the possibility anyway, that you don't really need "a dozen or so" quality cells. I certainly don't need 130 cells! With lights utilizing 10 or so different sizes however, I'd probably still need 50 or 60 though.

Carry on march. Again, just trying to help out by relaying my personal experience.

Also, sorry for straying OT. It just bothers me when iron pyrite is portrayed as gold, by many, when from personal experience, I know better.

Dave


----------



## spc smith

crap! i just bought ultrafire 3000mah 18650 battery at BJ with my gift coupon, for my olight M20X.. did i screw up ?


----------



## Fallingwater

I'll go against the flow here and say that I don't subscribe to the "only buy super-high-quality cells" school of thought.

Ultrafire is a known dodgy brand. They have some half-decent flashlights, but the batteries are junk. I can say this with some experience, as I used Ultrafire 18650s to recell a pocketPC's battery pack and it died a few months afterwards after very little use. 16340s also seem to die fairly quickly.

On the other hand, Trustfire cells from DX are fairly good; the "flaming" protected ones sold in the 2x pack have actually been tested and proved surprisingly capable - in fact, they sometimes exceed their rated capacity. Two of them are now in the aforementioned battery pack which still works perfectly after months and a number of full cycles. Another one seems to have no problems whatsoever powering my SC600 on turbo (3A) after I removed its protection circuit.

There are varying reports on the grey and blue ones, but I've had no problems with them - a blue Trustfire has powered my XP-G L-Mini for 2 years now and was still capable of running my SC600 on Turbo when I tried it yesterday (before giving it the "flaming" one), and I used greys for other things with no problems.

I can buy three "flaming" Trustfires for each AW (and this is before shipping expenses); more, actually, if I buy three 2-packs and get the bulk discount. As far as I'm concerned, this makes them clear winners in my book. I'd only buy a premium cell if I absolutely needed super-high capacity, as there's no such thing as a cheap 3Ah cell, from Trustfire or any other brand - and even then I'd go straight for the original manufacturer and buy Panasonic NCR cells instead. Note that OEM cells are always unprotected, but I don't trust protection circuits so I only ever buy flashlights with built-in protection. I suppose if I really needed a protected super-high-capacity cell I would buy an AW.

Edit: I should mention that I wouldn't expect a flaming TF to outlive an AW or Panasonic NCR - capacity may be high and reliability may be OK, but they are still cheap cells and some corners must have been cut. For the price, though, I don't see a problem in replacing them when they do eventually crap out.

As for the grey Trustfires, they're so cheap that even if you get a DOA or two per bunch of cells they're still good value for money as long as you relegate them to medium-current applications; a good rule of thumb is not to use them in anything that discharges them at more than 1C.

The blue ones cost about the same as the "flaming" ones, though, so I don't really see any reason to buy more - I only have mine because the others weren't available back when I ordered them.

All this said, buying any sort of battery from eBay sellers in China or Hong Kong is not wise. Online stores (even cheap ones like DX) have a reputation to maintain and so make at least an attempt at weeding out the obvious fakes, while eBay dealers just have to open a new account every now and then, so if they can sell you crap they probably will. I've seen pictures of dismantled cheap eBay cells, and some were actually empty by half or more of their volume.

Same thing goes for flash memory, by the way; cheap SD cards and thumbdrives are okay to buy from DX, but eBay is anathema.


----------



## Helmut.G

In my experience, most flamed Trustfire cells don't last much longer than one year even though I'm using them unfrequently. That doesn't make them as cheap as they seem to be.


----------



## Black Rose

Fallingwater said:


> On the other hand, Trustfire cells from DX are fairly good; the "flaming" protected ones sold in the 2x pack have actually been tested and proved surprisingly capable - in fact, they sometimes exceed their rated capacity.


That WAS the case with the original batches of those cells.

It seems with the most recent batches, the batteries have changed and are not as good as they used to be.

There is a thread on the DX forums about the change.


----------



## HKJ

Black Rose said:


> That WAS the case with the original batches of those cells.
> 
> It seems with the most recent batches, the batteries have changed and are not as good as they used to be.
> 
> There is a thread on the DX forums about the change.



I have done a newer review of them, where the capacity was considerable lower, it looks like it is the TrustFire Flame 3000 mAh that are the good ones now (But they are NOT 3000 mAh).
I have posted reviews here or you can find the reviews on my website.


----------



## spc smith

Really?? ivee heard double takes on this. I just called lighthound, and they said as of six months ago they have not had one complaint of the ultrafire 16340, 18650 batteries from customers buying them. However lighthound mentioned to me that an ealier batch was found to be fauly in performance but that the newer batch they have had no complaints of till now.


----------



## spc smith

till now as of no mistakes in performance. the newer batch seems to be more promising is what lighthound assured me of.


----------



## moderator007

HKJ said:


> I have done a newer review of them, where the capacity was considerable lower, it looks like it is the TrustFire Flame 3000 mAh that are the good ones now (But they are NOT 3000 mAh).
> I have posted reviews here or you can find the reviews on my website.


Hi HKJ,
From your website the trustfire flames has the DX sku on the box. I have never received any from DX in a box. But its been awhile since a purchased any. Did you purchase both sets of batteries from DX 2400mah and 3000mah. You tested a lower capacity with the new 2400mah trustfire's. Just making sure there from the same source as the older ones I have tested were better.


----------



## HKJ

moderator007 said:


> Hi HKJ,
> From your website the trustfire flames has the DX sku on the box. I have never received any from DX in a box. But its been awhile since a purchased any. Did you purchase both sets of batteries from DX 2400mah and 3000mah. You tested a lower capacity with the new 2400mah trustfire's. Just making sure there from the same source as the older ones I have tested were better.



Today DX is using there boxes for all ther LiIon batteries.
You can see in my "info box" where I got the batteries from, the 2400 was from DX, the 3000 where from Manafont. Last year I also got a good capacity from the 2400 batteries.


----------



## Fallingwater

HKJ said:


> I have done a newer review of them, where the capacity was considerable lower, it looks like it is the TrustFire Flame 3000 mAh that are the good ones now (But they are NOT 3000 mAh).
> I have posted reviews here or you can find the reviews on my website.


Duly noted. Thanks, I'll buy "3000 mAh" ones if I happen to need more.
I wonder if they'll get good batches of the 2.4Ah ones again.


----------



## K9Patrol

Just bought some UltraFire 18650's from BatteryJunction - They were a little to thick in my RRT-3 XML and scraped the cover off, exposing the Positive lead to the protection circuit. Decided to convert them to unprotected and not risk shorting the batteries, and after removing the UltraFire label, found Samsung batteries in all of them -- However, they were Samsung ICR18650-26F -- 2600 mAh batteries, not 3000 as advertised. Sent BatteryJunction an email about it, will avoid UltraFires in the future, these appear genuine and not "fake".


----------



## 45/70

It would be amusing if UltraFire had some old 18650 cells laying around that weren't moving too well, and decided to sell them to TrustFire at a discount. TrustFire would of course, then wrap the cells with their own label.

After a couple years, these cells may still not be moving well and TrustFire may decide to sell the cells back to UltraFire. UltraFire in turn, would then wrap one of their own labels over the TrustFire label, with maybe an increase in labeled capacity, such as "4500mAh" (this apparently helps increase sales). With 4 layers of labels now on the cells, maybe they could call them 1*9*650 cells?

Dave


----------



## Ualnosaj

Fake would imply a knock off. The problem is the xxxxxFire batteries don't have a set standard so your mix of batteries under the label is pretty common


----------



## David Sims

I have found an exceptional Ultrafire battery. I have an Ultrafire 18650 cell that runs my Romisen RC-T601 (XML T6 LED) flashlight on medium setting (initially about 700 lumens) for about 6h30m (4.23V to 3.15V), suggesting it has a capacity around 5000 mAh. By comparison, using the same flashlight and the same medium setting with a 3100 mAh AW 18650 cell keeps the light going for only 4 hours (4.23V to 2.73V). Most of the Ultrafire batteries I've bought are inferior. I don't know what makes this special one so excellent.







I marked it with a "G" to keep track of it.


----------



## HKJ

David Sims said:


> I have found an exceptional Ultrafire battery. I have an Ultrafire 18650 cell that runs my Romisen RC-T601 (XML T6 LED) flashlight on medium setting (initially about 700 lumens) for about 6h30m (4.23V to 3.15V), suggesting it has a capacity around 5000 mAh. By comparison, using the same flashlight and the same medium setting with a 3100 mAh AW 18650 cell keeps the light going for only 4 hours (4.23V to 2.73V). Most of the Ultrafire batteries I've bought are inferior. I don't know what makes this special one so excellent.



Probably a high internal resistance, i.e. the light is running at lower brightness and less current consumption.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

http://laserpointerforums.com/f67/fake-ultrafire-18650s-72833.html
Never seen one of those stuffed into an 18650... I'll repost here if OP ever replies back with his consent.


----------



## Helmut.G

bshanahan14rulz said:


> http://laserpointerforums.com/f67/fake-ultrafire-18650s-72833.html
> Never seen one of those stuffed into an 18650... I'll repost here if OP ever replies back with his consent.


another interesting variation.

that guy obviously was extremely lucky. not hard to imagine what could have happened had he opened a real low quality 18650 cell that way.


----------



## RIX TUX

MAYBE....... ITS NOT ULTRAFIRE THAT HAS ALL THESE PROBLEMS BUT SOMEONE COPYING ULTRAFIRE BATTERIES, HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THE BAD ONES ARE REALLY ULTRAFIRE???


----------



## Helmut.G

RIX TUX said:


> MAYBE....... ITS NOT ULTRAFIRE THAT HAS ALL THESE PROBLEMS BUT SOMEONE COPYING ULTRAFIRE BATTERIES, HOW DO YOU KNOW IF THE BAD ONES ARE REALLY ULTRAFIRE???


Your point is valid, however since we can not discern the real and the proposed fake ones it doesn't really make a difference.

I definitely wouldn't buy either.


----------



## tandem

As there are even counterfeit AW sells out there on the market, knowing your seller is more important than ever. I trust AW and I trust AW's legitimate resellers so I buy those cells only from those sources. If I bought Redilast or other makers known to use the Panasonic cells, I'd only buy direct or from reputable sources. 
That means no Deal Extreme, no Alibaba, no EBay, no other unknown internet resellers.

I won't buy Ultrafires and doubt fake Ultrafires are behind problems documented years ago with these cells, but certainly *today* there could be bad copies of bad cells out there. Do two bads make a good? Nope.

Counterfeit copies of cells that are less trustworthy to begin with to me sounds like an even more compelling reason to pay a few more dollars for cell products that have a better history and more accountability built in.


----------



## RIX TUX

ANY WAYS TO KNOW IF AN ULTRAFIRE IS FAKE BY EXAMINING IT?


----------



## Helmut.G

RIX TUX said:


> ANY WAYS TO KNOW IF AN ULTRAFIRE IS FAKE BY EXAMINING IT?


You'll know it's not fake if you don't buy it.

Get the real deal, it's going to save you money in the long run.
Even the good ****fire-cells are usually crap after a relatively short time (compared to quality cells).

And quality cells were never available as cheap as they are now.


----------



## RIX TUX

THX FOR INFO.....I HAVE A FEW THAT CAME WITH A LIGHT I SWAPPED FOR AND WILL USE THEM IN CHEAPER LIGHTS. ONE HAS A GOLD END AND ONE A SILVER END?.....I HAVE A REASON TO GET AN "AW" NOW.


----------



## us3rname

RIX TUX said:


> THX FOR INFO.....I HAVE A FEW THAT CAME WITH A LIGHT I SWAPPED FOR AND WILL USE THEM IN CHEAPER LIGHTS. ONE HAS A GOLD END AND ONE A SILVER END?.....I HAVE A REASON TO GET AN "AW" NOW.




stop typing in CAPS its wayyy annoying... 

I too have the unfortunate case of buying fake batteries and have gotten a partial refund on my purchase. Also from Ebay...


----------



## dc38

I ordered some red/silver black lettered ultrafire 18650 3000mAh cells from the bay of evil, I'll be doing Voltage, Amp, and mAh measurements/estimations. They'll be here in (hopefully faster than) 3 weeks, and I'll let you know when they come in. As soon as I let you guys know that they're here, please pray to whatever/whomever you believe in as I may not be around after testing those cells.

As for ultrafire cells in general, I have a couple of 14500's that i randomly swap off in my xeno's as backups to my AW's when i'm not patient enough to wait for a full charge. The voltages of the UF14500's peak out at around 4.38 V somehow, and operate until "dead" at around 2.68 V (what a weird number, I think i'm overcharging/over-discharging them.. :X) anyways, I had a friend of mine estimate the mAh on them because I lack the book smarts and patience to, and they have around 730 mAh each. (they are labeled as 900 mAh). Maybe I got lucky :/


----------



## yo6ial

Didn't visit CPF in a long while but these days I got myself some hilarious Ultrafire..ish cells too. 
I must admit I was more amused than mad as I payed and got my money back soon after complaining to the seller. I think he pleaded "profane"  
Nevertheless here's a pic for your attention and amusement.






Note the missing over-pressure valve. 
And the marked capacity...  
Cheers and take care!


----------



## HKJ

yo6ial said:


> Didn't visit CPF in a long while but these days I got myself some hilarious Ultrafire..ish cells too.



They might be better than the genuine UltraFire batteries, I was not impressed with them when I tested them.


----------



## CVLPA

*Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

I bought these for my Fenix TK35 in Bangkok. After a closer inspection i see that they are not alike. The one to the left is shorter, has an indentation around the top and use a different font for "BRC". I'm a noob, but I should stop using them, right?


----------



## Shadowww

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



CVLPA said:


> I bought these for my Fenix TK35 in Bangkok. After a closer inspection i see that they are not alike. The one to the left is shorter, has an indentation around the top and use a different font for "BRC". I'm a noob, but I should stop using them, right?


Yes, *especially* considering your TK35 runs them in series.
Get something proper (if you want to save money, you can get pair of Xtar 2600mAh's or Solarforce 2600mAh's for $15) instead.


----------



## CVLPA

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



Shadowww said:


> Yes, *especially* considering your TK35 runs them in series.
> Get something proper (if you want to save money, you can get pair of Xtar 2600mAh's or Solarforce 2600mAh's for $15) instead.



Thanks! 
Now i have scrapped them and ordered a pair of XTAR 3100mAh and an XTAR SP2 charger. Hope that will be safer!


----------



## Shadowww

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



CVLPA said:


> Thanks!
> Now i have scrapped them and ordered a pair of XTAR 3100mAh and an XTAR SP2 charger. Hope that will be safer!



Yep, the 3100mAh batteries are highest tier of protected ones at the moment (in unprotected version there also are 3400mAh ones, but they aren't safe to use in series without protection).
And SP2 charger is awesome, you'll love it


----------



## USSR

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

so who is the real manufacturer and how to identify between a genuine and fake uf "? any urls to UF ?


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



USSR said:


> so who is the real manufacturer and how to identify between a genuine and fake uf "? any urls to UF ?



It does not really matter, the real UltraFire is just as bad as the fake UltraFire.


----------



## 45/70

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



USSR said:


> so who is the real manufacturer and how to identify between a genuine and fake uf "? any urls to UF ?



I wholly agree with HKJ, and maintain that there are no "fake" UltraFire products. I think it would be ridiculous to attempt such an endeavor, although others have suggested why they might. It just wouldn't make any sense to me though.

Since their site offers sales, I don't think it can be linked to here because of CPF rules. The company's name though is "WhaFat Technological Co.,Ltd". They are based in Hong Kong/ShenZhen, China and they are a distributor, not a "manufacturer". I'm guessing that most of the other "Fires" (except for SureFire, of course, which is a U.S. company) are all on the same block, next door to each other, but really don't know that.

Dave


----------



## 127.0.0.1

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



HKJ said:


> It does not really matter, the real UltraFire is just as bad as the fake UltraFire.



not really, it depends. ultrafire is actually decent
but ultrafires do have counterfeits all over the market 

I personally buy only eagletac protected 18650

a friend of mine likes ultrafire stuff, and ordered 2 ultrafire 18650
he ended up with a box of 50 ultrafire 18650 for free, and they didn't want them back.

all the ultrafire 18650 have blue labels and digital 16-bit printing of the ultrafire name and capacity
each individual cell was packed in nickel-mylar and electronic sealed.

he gave me 10 of them to play with. I peeled open 4 of them and they are all identical. 
all the 10 ultrafires tested at 3.76-3.74 volts as I took them out of the packages, all charged
up fine to 4.2 volts.

I will use these in my skyrayking and then as backups to eagtac 18650 protected



I will say yes buying ultrafire is a crap shoot depending on the seller, but real ones
are new cells and test fine.


no matter the brand, I would -never- series stack unprotected cells, I will only run these as singles or parallel such as the 4x18650 skyrayking


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



127.0.0.1 said:


> not really, it depends. ultrafire is actually decent
> but ultrafires do have counterfeits all over the market



In my battery test I bought UltraFire from two places where they said it was real UltraFire, they did not do very good in my battery test, the "fake" ones did better.


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

http://i.imgur.com/aPGyA.jpg
This were purchased in Shenzhen, from the link I posted a few posts up. I'd be curious to see what the cell in your picture, the one without the crimp around the positive end, looks like inside. Same with yo6ial, is that silver cylinder metal, or just metal-looking?


----------



## CVLPA

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



bshanahan14rulz said:


> http://i.imgur.com/aPGyA.jpg
> This were purchased in Shenzhen, from the link I posted a few posts up. I'd be curious to see what the cell in your picture, the one without the crimp around the positive end, looks like inside. Same with yo6ial, is that silver cylinder metal, or just metal-looking?


I threw them away but i did peel them down to the bare metal first. The battery to the right, without the crimping was wrapped in layers of yellow plastic and white paper to make it fatter.






Sorry i can't open them more, because now they're recycled


----------



## bshanahan14rulz

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

Interesting, a 17670 packaged and marketed as a protected 18650... Thanks for the added information! I was just wondering if it was another one of those LiPo fakes.


----------



## tandem

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



127.0.0.1 said:


> not really, it depends. ultrafire is actually decent



What qualifies as "decent" then in your estimation? Does a cell merely have to charge to what appears to be a "full" voltage? Run a light for a while?

Or have you taken a bunch of Ultrafire cells and put them on various loads with a logging voltmeter or battery workstation of some sort to see how they stand up to the sort of use you'll put them too?

I consider Ultrafire cells an unnecessary risk and potentially dangerous, as well as being poor value for money. Cheaply made, often fraudulently advertised, is no bargain.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



tandem said:


> What qualifies as "decent" then in your estimation? Does a cell merely have to charge to what appears to be a "full" voltage? Run a light for a while?
> 
> Or have you taken a bunch of Ultrafire cells and put them on various loads with a logging voltmeter or battery workstation of some sort to see how they stand up to the sort of use you'll put them too?
> 
> I consider Ultrafire cells an unnecessary risk and potentially dangerous, as well as being poor value for money. Cheaply made, often fraudulently advertised, is no bargain.



they run lights as bright and as long as eagtac 18650 and charge fine and hold a charge

I would never, ever order an ultrafire myself, I just happen to have a bunch from that mistake shipment
a friend got and ended up with 50 new ultrafires. immediately charged and tested them for charge
holding and they are fine. and guess what ? the labels on them are different than any ultrafire pictured here in this thread.
so who knows which is the real slim shady ultrafire 18650 ? maybe mine are counterfeit ? they were packed nicely in sealed mylar 

anyway, they work great. would I buy them ? hell no !



> I consider Ultrafire cells an unnecessary risk and potentially dangerous



ditto...I will carefully use what I have now and again, but they are going to be backups


----------



## 127.0.0.1

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

Question for anyone owning Ultrafire 18650
-------------
The ones I recently obtained:

a) were individually wrapped in nickel mylar
b) have blue labels
*c) the cathode cap is laser etched with the ultrafire logo* and close scrutiny reveals it is very accurate


Does anyone else have laser etched logo on the negative terminal of the Ultrafire 18650 ?
The entire box of 50 have them.

[this seems to be what a company would do to help sort out counterfeits.]


----------



## 127.0.0.1

nice picture of a fake ultrafire here. [note, my labels do not look like those labels]

http://laserpointerforums.com/f67/fake-ultrafire-18650s-72833.html


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



127.0.0.1 said:


> Does anyone else have laser etched logo on the negative terminal of the Ultrafire 18650 ?
> The entire box of 50 have them.



The UltraFires I tested has logo on the bottom, but I do not believe that it is made with a laser.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



HKJ said:


> The UltraFires I tested has logo on the bottom, but I do not believe that it is made with a laser.



lets put it this way...mine have etching that a laser _could have done_. how it was actually done I don't know.

just wondering...I still won't buy ultrafires for myself, and don't really trust the ones I got for free. now after
seeing the laser forums pictures of fake ultrafire....dang I might just throw mine out, laser-logo or not. for now I am
keeping them in the skyrayking and will keep cracking it open and testing volts on all 4 cells and see what gives...


----------



## HighlanderNorth

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

Why would any company produce cheap, fraudulent knock-offs of lousy batteries anyway? It seems to me you'd want to label them with a _good name brand_ if you were going to try and sell them dishonestly, not a questionable name.....

Whats up with that?


----------



## Shadowww

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



HighlanderNorth said:


> Why would any company produce cheap, fraudulent knock-offs of lousy batteries anyway? It seems to me you'd want to label them with a _good name brand_ if you were going to try and sell them dishonestly, not a questionable name.....
> 
> Whats up with that?


Fakes of name-brand batteries are way easier to distinguish from real ones, because real Panasonic's / Sanyo's etc even *look* high quality, you can tell it by feeling of shrink-wrap etc.. hard to describe, but hold a genuine NCR18650A in your hand and it'll have some kind of high-quality feeling to it. D:


----------



## TyJo

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

I prefer AW. I threw my "ultrafire" cells away.


----------



## treliving

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

I just bought some ultra fire 18650's. Are these batteries dangerous? Could they explode or do damage to my flashlight? I have read in this threat that people say it's unsafe to use ultrafire's in a multi cell product. If poor quality a poor performance is all i have to worry about then i will just use them till they are toast and then buy AW's as it seems that people consistantly rate them high. Any input on my ultra fire's are much appreciated.


----------



## LEDninja

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



treliving said:


> i will just use them till they are toast and then buy AW's.


Lithium batteries get damaged when the voltage drops below 2.7V. Never run them as long as you can like disposable alkaline. Recharge often long before they are depleted.


----------



## ARA

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

I get these for the equivalent of $1 can't complain much about at that price. I have some AWs' as well but since the recent shipping ban (i am not in the US) i'll have to make do with these to feed my M6s. Compared to some salvaged laptop batteries and the AWs these are pretty light weight. Give me around 20 mins on high power on my M6LT before flickering. I'll let the pic speak for itself.


----------



## HKJ

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



ARA said:


> I have some AWs' as well but since the recent shipping ban (i am not in the US) i'll have to make do with these to feed my M6s.



AW is not in US, i.e. he is still shipping to all the world.


----------



## Helmut.G

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



ARA said:


> Compared to some salvaged laptop batteries and the AWs these are pretty light weight.


BAD SIGN. Possibly smaller batteries wrapped in plastic etc.


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

I am looking for some 4x cheap unprotected 18650 to power an usb charger, do these battery`s look ok, ebay item 221032078907

Thanks

John.


----------



## Shadowww

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> I am looking for some 4x cheap unprotected 18650 to power an usb charger, do these battery`s look ok, ebay item 221032078907
> 
> Thanks
> 
> John.


That's a bad choice. Get unprotected cell from brand-name manufacturers, such as (alphabetical order, with no specific preference) LG, Panasonic, Samsung, Sanyo, Sony.
They'll last you much longer (both in terms of cycle life, and per-cycle capacity), and they are also safer, because they have high quality control.

Seeing that you need 4 of them, I'd recommend you following eBay lots:
If you want maximum possible capacity: 221146637914 which'll give you 48 Watt-hours of power at $52
If you want most capacity-per-dollar: either 180890419066 or 350585947314, both of which will give you approx. 35 Watt-hours of power at $22


----------



## TinderBox (UK)

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

Thanks for the info, the charger i ordered says to use non-protected batterys or the charger will be damaged, it`s supposed to have it`s own protection built in, the two cheaper option one says it`s protected and the other the negative end looks protected even though it does not say so.

This is the charger i ordered, ebay item 271073382603

John.


----------



## 127.0.0.1

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



ARA said:


> I get these for the equivalent of $1 can't complain much about at that price. I have some AWs' as well but since the recent shipping ban (i am not in the US) i'll have to make do with these to feed my M6s. Compared to some salvaged laptop batteries and the AWs these are pretty light weight. Give me around 20 mins on high power on my M6LT before flickering. I'll let the pic speak for itself.



OMG that is the fakest of the fake battery I have ever seen ! 

#1 logo incorrect 
#2 *3800mah is currently impossible* in 18650 format

I bet if ripped open there is a tiny battery wired up inside


----------



## Shadowww

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*



TinderBox (UK) said:


> Thanks for the info, the charger i ordered says to use non-protected batterys or the charger will be damaged, it`s supposed to have it`s own protection built in, the two cheaper option one says it`s protected and the other the negative end looks protected even though it does not say so.
> 
> This is the charger i ordered, ebay item 271073382603
> 
> John.


You can use protected batteries in that charger with no problem, protection doesn't in any way interacts with anything except for the cell that it protects.


----------



## ARA

*Re: Possibly Fake Ultrafire?*

Yeah i know they are ****, i just use them in single battery configurations. CR123s are expensive here and i prefer keeping my battery costs low to fund my hobbies. :nana:


----------



## dra90n

I bought what I now know was a fake, red packaging with suposedly 3100mah capacity. It didn't have the 'Ultrafire' branding on the negative. It also said it was protected but simply had a carboard 'ring' where the protection circuit was! 

They were swiftly disposed of!

Caveat emptor for cheap 18650 ebay purchases!


----------



## kennethsross

*First post - Ultrafire BRC18650 3000mAh - Are these fakes?*

Hi

I received an LED bike light as a Christmas gift. It came with 4 Ultrafire BRC18650 cells (3000mAh)

Everything about the package seems cheap. The battery holder is very flimsy with desperately poor soldering, and I'm seriously suspicious that the cells are not genuine.

Two things about them:
1. The red band at the bottom of the battery is much thinner than any I have seen on any Ultrafire BCR18650 on eBay

2. The bottom plate of the battery is plain and silvery in colour, whereas everyone I see on eBay has a gold coloured base with Ultrafire written on it. (the picture in the advert showed YEZL batteries, but these were not supplied.)​
Appreciate your thoughts.

Do you think they are fakes? The lettering includes the typical Ultrafire typo - 'sheef-life'

Appreciate any comments

Regards

ksr


----------



## Changchung

*First post - Ultrafire BRC18650 3000mAh - Are these fakes?*

Hi, for my point of view all the XXXXfire are not genuine, that because we cant know for sure what is inside, if you can replace all the batteries with real name batteries like, panasonic, sanyo, lg or sony.


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


----------



## Darmvlinder

*Re: First post - Ultrafire BRC18650 3000mAh - Are these fakes?*

I probably got robbed by DealExtreme. I bought a laser pointer, the SD-230 to be precise. Hardware-wise it's solid, sturdy and performs well. I use it for astronomy, which is my hobby. This is the URL to the laser I bought: http://dx.com/p/sd-230-aluminum-5mw-532nm-green-laser-pointer-black-1-x-18650-165185.

It came with the blue UltraFire battery you see in the pictures, and this cheap fake charger. The light always stays green, even when a battery is not/wrongly placed. As for the battery, the bottom cap is silver, no laser etchings, the top is surrounded with some sort of cardboard ring. 

I've obviously been scammed battery-wise, as charging the battery for several hours does not do squat. The laser dies down just as fast. I'm a real noob when it comes down to batteries and testing them, so I would appreciate if anyone of you could help me in finding good quality 18650 batteries, which will last long enough and provide enough power so I can keep on using this laser. I'm not that rich as I'm still a student, lol. So if the shipping cost to Europe could be limited, I'd be very grateful.

-Thanks


----------



## välineurheilija

*Re: First post - Ultrafire BRC18650 3000mAh - Are these fakes?*



Darmvlinder said:


> I probably got robbed by DealExtreme. I bought a laser pointer, the SD-230 to be precise. Hardware-wise it's solid, sturdy and performs well. I use it for astronomy, which is my hobby. This is the URL to the laser I bought: http://dx.com/p/sd-230-aluminum-5mw-532nm-green-laser-pointer-black-1-x-18650-165185.
> 
> It came with the blue UltraFire battery you see in the pictures, and this cheap fake charger. The light always stays green, even when a battery is not/wrongly placed. As for the battery, the bottom cap is silver, no laser etchings, the top is surrounded with some sort of cardboard ring.
> 
> I've obviously been scammed battery-wise, as charging the battery for several hours does not do squat. The laser dies down just as fast. I'm a real noob when it comes down to batteries and testing them, so I would appreciate if anyone of you could help me in finding good quality 18650 batteries, which will last long enough and provide enough power so I can keep on using this laser. I'm not that rich as I'm still a student, lol. So if the shipping cost to Europe could be limited, I'd be very grateful.
> 
> -Thanks


Where in Europe are you located if i may ask?


----------



## A1rh3ad

If you absolutely must buy cheap chinese batteries for some reason I'd recommend Tenergy.


----------



## KILLER_K

Thanks for the information posted all throughout this thread. I'm looking for some batteries and this will really come in handy on my hunt for some great batteries now.


----------



## gedGU

Did a quick check on the UltraFire 18650's 3000mAh batteries i bought off eBay from a local seller here in Australia.

Poor results, i also tested some 18650 2200mAh ones that i got with a torch i bought from a electronics company called Jaycar.

Results.

UltraFire 3000mAh
Test #1 - 812mAh's
Test #2 - 745mAh's

Jaycar 2200mAh
Test #1 - 2215mAh
Test #2 - 2217mAh

Tested on a battery tester with a discharge rate of 400mA. Each battery tested down to 2V. 

Also weighed the batteries.
UltraFire 3000mAh - 33 grams

Jaycar 2200mAh - 47 grams

Cheers
Simon..


----------



## Trevtrain

Hi Simon :wave:

Probably a bit late now but DON'T discharge them down to 2V. Most low voltage protection circuits kick in at just under 3V for a very good reason.
Even the newer Panasonics are only rated for 2.5V maximum discharge.

You are seriously risking the health of both your batteries and yourself with this level of discharge.

From your number of posts and recent join date, I'm assuming you are new to this type of chemistry.
I suggest you do some reading on the subject of Li-Ion cells. There are any number of useful threads here at CPF. Keep in mind that the low voltage you have taken them to will be even more dangerous if you left them in that discharged state for any length of time.

I'm not sure of the quality of the Jaycar products, but if you are looking for a reputable Australian seller, contact Yass - (ebay seller Supersports600). He can steer you towards more suitable cells including the latest Panasonics. His mobile number is listed on his ebay page if you wan't to ask questions.

Cheers
Trev



gedGU said:


> Did a quick check on the UltraFire 18650's 3000mAh batteries i bought off eBay from a local seller here in Australia.
> 
> Poor results, i also tested some 18650 2200mAh ones that i got with a torch i bought from a electronics company called Jaycar.
> 
> Results.
> 
> UltraFire 3000mAh
> Test #1 - 812mAh's
> Test #2 - 745mAh's
> 
> Jaycar 2200mAh
> Test #1 - 2215mAh
> Test #2 - 2217mAh
> 
> Tested on a battery tester with a discharge rate of 400mA. Each battery tested down to 2V.
> 
> Also weighed the batteries.
> UltraFire 3000mAh - 33 grams
> 
> Jaycar 2200mAh - 47 grams
> 
> Cheers
> Simon..


----------



## Wylie

I just purchased some of the fakes off Ebay myself. I'm waiting for a reply from the seller. Glad I have other batteries on the way as back ups! 
These things won't even run an e-cigarette for 3 hours let alone the expected 17 or so hours.
Mine have the fake logo and LC on the label not the AX.
Can supply a pic if anyone wants one.


----------



## HotWire

I've not had good luck with any of the ****Fire batteries. I prefer AW, Readilast, Panasonic, and Callie's Kustom 18650 batteries. They cost only a little more and will last a lot longer--so in the long run these brands provided me with good value (as well as a modicum of safety). Spend enough time on CPF and you'll notice that people who have peeled labels off find all kinds of odd batteries under the familiar label.


----------



## KiwiMark

HotWire said:


> I've not had good luck with any of the ****Fire batteries. I prefer AW, Readilast, Panasonic, and Callie's Kustom 18650 batteries. They cost only a little more and will last a lot longer--so in the long run these brands provided me with good value (as well as a modicum of safety). Spend enough time on CPF and you'll notice that people who have peeled labels off find all kinds of odd batteries under the familiar label.



Good batteries don't cost a little more - buying cheap batteries, realising that they are junk, then buying good batteries, that is what costs a little more.
My advice is to buy good quality that will last a few years, it is actually the cheaper way to go.


----------



## rocketrancher

gedGU said:


> Did a quick check on the UltraFire 18650's 3000mAh batteries i bought off eBay from a local seller here in Australia.
> 
> Poor results, i also tested some 18650 2200mAh ones that i got with a torch i bought from a electronics company called Jaycar.
> 
> Results.
> 
> UltraFire 3000mAh
> Test #1 - 812mAh's
> Test #2 - 745mAh's
> 
> Jaycar 2200mAh
> Test #1 - 2215mAh
> Test #2 - 2217mAh
> 
> Tested on a battery tester with a discharge rate of 400mA. Each battery tested down to 2V.
> 
> Also weighed the batteries.
> UltraFire 3000mAh - 33 grams
> 
> Jaycar 2200mAh - 47 grams
> 
> Cheers
> Simon..





Thank you for posting weights. 

I came to this forum after pulling some hair out (I can't afford much of that) trying to figure out why a project isn't meeting performance......voltage falling out of the box far quicker than intended.

I'm feeling this warm glow, probably having just joined the fake-battery-of-the-month club.

When I received the UF's, I thought they seemed awful light, compared to some powertool 18650's.

I'll be getting the scale out soon.


----------



## rocketrancher

rocketrancher said:


> I'll be getting the scale out soon.



And the answer is:

I have a handful of 32.5 gram objects that I don't think are worth the effort to load-test, but estimate are maybe 20% of labeled capacity (These are red-labeled UF 3000's, just like pictured in getGU's post).

Newfound knowledge.
Thanks!

Now to order some _real_ cells.


----------



## gedGU

Rocketrancher. it is a pitty that cells of this quality continue to get sold on ebay, i am sure that the supplier of these *****Fire batteries here in Australia did not even know he was selling such poor quality batteries. I advised him of the testing i had done and provided him with the results. He said he would have to do his own testing, did he do it? Probably not, and just kept on selling them as i am sure there was not enough people who complained. He even sold his torches based on run time using a 3000mAh batterie supplied by him, he said that the torched draied 500mA so using a 3000mAh ****Fire battery you will get 6Hrs run time.... HA HA HA more like 1Hr.

I am sure the eBay sellers of poor quality batteries are starting to hate me as i have now done tests on Aftermarket Camera batteries rated at 2100mAh and only test up to 750mAh and also some AA NI-MH 2500mAh that only test up to be 716mAh!!! 

Cheers.


----------



## gedGU

Trevtrain.

Sorry about the late reply, the tester actually tested them down to 3V per cell and not 2V. My mistake.

Cheers.


----------



## richardhill5

I thought they were all fake.. don' t they come from here..


----------



## Trevtrain

gedGU said:


> Trevtrain.
> 
> Sorry about the late reply, the tester actually tested them down to 3V per cell and not 2V. My mistake.
> 
> Cheers.



Well that's good to hear. 2V is way too low but 3V shouldn't cause immediate problems.
Just don't leave them in a discharged state for long periods of time. Optimum charge for long-term storage is apparently about 40% and if possible, don't leave them in a hot car.


----------



## Swemoph

Hey,

Sorry if i'm resurrecting a dead thread, but I signed up just to ask about the ultrafire blue 18650 batteries that just came in my mail. They're rated at 3000 mAh, and 3.7v. I popped them to my multimeter, the one was outputting 4v and the other 3.91v. I'm charging them right now, but just wanting to check that everything is ok here, and i'm not going to get killed by these things. Also if anyone could enlighten me as to how to check mAh on the multimeter it'd be great

Thanks


----------



## okeenu

Hi! looks like no one else replied , so here goes... 

unfortunately all .....Fire Batteries are all suspect as to quality and capacity. But used in a Single Cell application... and kept .. within voltage parameters ( 3.? to 4.20v) should be fine.. If you are using the two cells in series you should be sure to test the cells to make sure they seem to charge and discharge at the same rate.

Amperage is read in series with your circuit. so you need a load and battery to measure the flow in other words ...+ on cell to meter, meter to load, load (bulb) to neg. on cell..

many multi meters make you change the location of your red lead to a different "hole" before reading amps....

Charge All Li ion in a safe fire proof area away from kids and pets..

Have fun........


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## torukmakto4

Swemoph said:


> Hey,
> Also if anyone could enlighten me as to how to check mAh on the multimeter it'd be great
> Thanks



You can't. Don't try.

Multimeters have one or more current ranges identified as A. These are for measuring current! On amperage range, the meter provides a low impedance (ideally zero ohms) current path to be inserted into a circuit. A proper use is i.e. to check current draw at the tailcap of a light.

This seems extremely obvious but I have seen it from people trying to "check mAh" so... If you connect across a cell on amperage range, YOU JUST nearly DEAD SHORTED THE CELL. That is called a flash amp measurement, and doing that to a Li-ion cell is extremely dangerous, harmful to the cell, and will likely blow up any DMM that doesn't have a fuse due to the extreme currents that will flow. It's an old school practice for checking remaining capacity on high-resistance primary batteries and even there it is improper and not recommended.

Capacity (Ah, mAh) has to be measured by a discharge test; by an electronic load, a battery analyzer, a hobby charger that can discharge, or a constant current load and a timer.


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## HKJ

Swemoph said:


> Also if anyone could enlighten me as to how to check mAh on the multimeter it'd be great



The setup is easy, but requires some dedicated work.

Place a 1 ohm 20 watt resistor across the battery, then measure the voltage each 5 minutes (More often gives better precision) and put the time and voltage into a spreadsheet. This will take a about 1 hour for a 3100mAh battery.

When finished you can add columns for time (in hours) between measurements and current.

The you multiply time and current and sum it together.


A hobby charger will do all that automatic and only cost $25 for the cheap models.


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## kosPap

we lost fasttech as a battery seller too soon.
They are performing/advertising actual capacities in their shop now
have a look:
http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/...fire-brc-18650-3000mah-37v-rechargeable-li-io* 400* mah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/...fire-brc-18650-37v-4000mah-protected-recharge
http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10000377/1053200-trustfire-tf18650-3-7v-3000mah-protected


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## Trevtrain

kosPap said:


> we lost fasttech as a battery seller too soon.
> They are performing/advertising actual capacities in their shop now
> have a look:
> http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/...fire-brc-18650-3000mah-37v-rechargeable-li-io* 400* mah!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/...fire-brc-18650-37v-4000mah-protected-recharge
> http://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10000377/1053200-trustfire-tf18650-3-7v-3000mah-protected



We've probably lost them for a while due to the current shipping restrictions. But seriously if you're going to buy ****fire batteries what do you expect? Sorry guys but there is little to justify propping up the ****fire sellers in the face of so much evidence of their rubbish cells.

We all know that the capacity claims on these cells are overinflated cr*p - I'm just glad that they are honest enough to publish their testing results.


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## kosPap

their testing is not limited to batteries alone. I first found out when i was looking into powerbanks.
Where there is pracical no data
They even publish driver performance too.


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## chris_786

I received these, I presume they are fake?


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## DellSuperman

chris_786 said:


> I received these, I presume they are fake?



5000mAh... Highly suspicious to me:what:
Yeah, they are definitely fake. Haha.. 

- JonK


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## Trevtrain

chris_786 said:


> I received these, I presume they are fake?




oh I dunno.......

Anything claiming 5000mAh from an 18650 is fake capacity. There is no such beast available (yet).

On the other hand, you may well experience very non-fake, very real Fire!


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## 127.0.0.1

ultrafire tr 18650 5000mah on ebay for $1.80, sounds legit


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## chris_786

127.0.0.1 said:


> ultrafire tr 18650 5000mah on ebay for $1.80, sounds legit



Full refund from eBay seller....


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## Changchung

This thread must be a sticky, everybody should know this to prevent the new batteries users buy this kind of batteries...

Avoid all the XXXXfire and rare brands, GTL, etc


Sent from my phone with camera with flash and internet on it...


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## weegidy

*Is UltraFire a real brand?*

I have seen so many batteries and flashlights labeled "UltraFire" on eBay and amazon that I cant help but wonder if it is really even a brand, or just a label that lots of "counterfeiters" like to use. I have probably seen a dozen different types of shrink wrap that all say "UltraFire" on 18650 cells, alone... boasting anywhere from 3000mAh to 5000mAh. 
Are these cells all packed in the same place, or is it just a common type of shrink wrap that lots of people like to put on their "own" batteries before selling them?
I guess another option is that UltraFire is a real brand, but there's lots of counterfeit UltraFire cells on the market...


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## chris_786

Hi guys after my fake "willblowupforsurefire" batteries I'm looking for genuine batteries and struggling to find reputable sites to buy off...

Looking for 18650's, running two together in an extension tube so guess i need protected cells.

I've found these but any other recommendations?
http://www.batterystation.co.uk/Xtar...Battery-2-Pack

Not limiting myself to UK sites as long as the postage is reasonable...


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## ven

I use the xtars in my tm15 to name 1 light,imo good cells


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## weegidy

chris_786 said:


> Hi guys after my fake "willblowupforsurefire" batteries I'm looking for genuine batteries and struggling to find reputable sites to buy off...
> 
> Looking for 18650's, running two together in an extension tube so guess i need protected cells.
> 
> I've found these but any other recommendations?
> http://www.batterystation.co.uk/Xtar...Battery-2-Pack
> 
> Not limiting myself to UK sites as long as the postage is reasonable...



There's one eBay seller who sells legit Panasonic cells that are protected 3400mAh... 2cells/$20. I would only buy Panasonic cells from America, I don't trust them coming from China. 
I don't know if I can post links to eBay... but if you search for "2 PANASONIC NCR18650B LI-ION BATTERY 3400mAh 3.7v 18650 NEW PROTECTION PCB JAPAN" you will find them. They would be shipping from American, so you will have to check with the seller to see if he's ok sending them overseas.


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## Norm

Back on topic guys "*Fake Ultrafire 18650 battery warning*" - Norm

chris_786 your post has been copied and moved into the relevant thread.


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## weegidy

richardhill5 said:


> I thought they were all fake.. don' t they come from here..



Wow. I think this should have more attention. This is reason enough not to buy UltraFire cells.


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## Rosoku Chikara

weegidy said:


> richardhill5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I thought they were all fake.. don' t they come from here..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. I think this should have more attention. This is reason enough not to buy UltraFire cells.
Click to expand...


Nothing much to be learned from this photo. Looks like a typical metals sorting/salvage operation to me. (Perhaps neater and better organized than most.)

The green sign reads "Useless Old Nickel Cadmium Batteries - Holding Area"


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## johnyradio

David Sims said:


> I have found an exceptional Ultrafire battery.



where did you buy it?

thx


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## MrElvey

I'm amazed that with all the information out there, these sub sub sub-standard batteries are not only selling well, consumers are overwhelmingly happy with them.
​(Reviews of ​*UltraFire TR 18650 4500mAh : *​191positive 
1 neutral
5 negative, 3 of which relate to shipping)​


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## mojo-chan

The problem is that people get them, try them once and then write a raving review of how wondering they are. A few weeks later they don't feel like updating their review using their remaining 7 fingers.


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## Ted12

I purchased some UltraFire 4000mAH batteries with flashlights. One is a one cell flashlight and the other is a 2 cell flashlight. One of the batteries does not work and I've since learned from this site that they may be fake. In fact the do say "Sheef-life around 10 years" on the label which another user pointed out on a fake. My question is several users have mentioned these batteries being dangerous and being dangerous in a multicell use. What is the danger of using these cells? If they just go dead - I'll just learn and not buy any more of this brand. However if there are other dangers like the recent airliner fire problems with lithium batterise I won't use them any more. Thanks in advance for your help.

Ted12
opf


xxllmm4 said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Just thought I would pass this along to any new people to the board. About a year ago I bought some Ultrafire 3000mah 18650's off ebay for about $3 ea shipped. They turned out to be about 2250mah but for the price I didn't complain too much. So about 6 weeks ago I ordered some more  some protected and some not, 2 separate sellers on Ebay. I got out my Imax B6 charger and did some discharge tests at 1A and1400mah was the best. A couple where dead and some came in at about 70... yes 70mah. I opened them up and this is what I found. NONE of them match!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clearly recycled, old spot welds where ground off. The unprotected batteries where not even 18650's they had some weird thick plastic cover to make them thicker.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These things could be really scary in a multi cell flashlight! I did get a full refund from both sellers, so if you get any fakes by all means ask for a refund and let other people know, these batteries are to dangerous to play around with.


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## avrilcory

I just manually charged a 6-cell laptop pack full of those (well, 2000mAh versions), only to find the pack controller is dead so it won't work anyway. I think they mean any complaints about the same person to be looked at seriously. Yes that is a big task to so to cut it down, how about working with Paypal and cross reference claims for fake items etc.


Thanking You
Riello-ups


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## Full Power

Hi there, 
Where to start ... just bought a XML -- T6, UltraFire* Flashlight/Torch. It came with a rechargeable 18650 (protected) battery. When the battery is on charger, there's only a blinking red light -- let it charge 5 half hrs, with no change to the blinking red light.! The question is; how is a person to tell whether or not this battery is fully charged, since there is no real indication to let a person know?


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## eric1565

don't buy cheap fire batteries... look on youtube for fake 18650 and some pretty neat vids come up.


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## eric1565

There is a guy on endless sphere selling tesla cells. I bought 5 from him and they are what he says they are. Capacity wise and sag wise. I would recomend them. I saw he was running low last time i checked.


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## Gew

Oh, these "Ultrafire" cells are off the hook in a really bad sense. I ordered two pieces that looks exactly like the in attached images in original post, i.e. red wrapping and the same font and characteristics. Only that these bad boys say "6000 mAh", and also that they are circuit-protected. I've removed wrapping and at least I can't tell they're re-cycled in any way, but now when I've tried them out I can definitely tell that they do not hold the 6000 mAh that is advertised. I mean, I also ordered (eBay) a cheap battery pack for USB-charging, you know. It has room for one 18650 cell and after having fully charged it I hook an old Samsung Galaxy Mini up, this phone has a 1200 mAh battery, and since mine is ~5 years old it's likely to hold < 500 mAh. Yeah, after removing charger the battery is drained in just a couple of hours. An old cell phone battery, I was saying. However, after having fully charged this "Ultrafire" battery and connecting the old smartphone when fully drained, it seems to charge it around halfway full, that's it. I've also tried charging my current phone, an GT-i9506; needless to say that the cheap Chinese 18650 cell is drained in less than half an hour. Gosh, I guess there is actually some truth in what they say; "What you pay is what you get", and I don't think I'll be buying stuff like this again, anytime soon. Now I'm thinking, the "circuit-protected" is probably b/s as well, so next thing I know will probably be a mad explosion in my pocket, carrying that emergency charger. Gosh, I really need to get a hold on something better. This is my first 18650 experience, ever.


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## HKJ

Gew said:


> Now I'm thinking, the "circuit-protected" is probably b/s as well,



Probably, a protected cell has a circuit, usual at the back, but in a few cases at the front.
See these articles:
http://www.lygte-info.dk/info/battery protection UK.html
http://lygte-info.dk/info/isMyBatteryProtected UK.html


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## hauer

There are many fake 18650 batteries in the market. The most of them come from China. It is very difficult to recognize which one is fake battery brand. :shakehead


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## Bretcoe

hauer said:


> There are many fake 18650 batteries in the market. The most of them come from China. It is very difficult to recognize which one is fake battery brand. :shakehead



Also, there are more and more counterfeit/clone/fake versions of legit batteries out there today.

I've seen fake Sony VTC-4's (not mine thankfully) and have heard of. They looked very similar but just had some stretching of the QR code on the green wrap. 

I don't recommend eBay for popular batteries anymore. And some B&M stores don't even know if they have fakes (think uneducated or shady smaller business owner, though I guess larger companies could do it too... Wait while I get my tinfoil hat on).

Just an fyi


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## markr6

Just came across this one while browsing ebay.






So...

- There are potentially 1988 poor suckers out there in the world
- $24452.40 wasted
- 71568 grams, or 157 lbs of lithium soon to end up in a landfill or have to be recycled (estimated since these are likely 2500mAh cells at best)


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## ven

I bet you would be lucky to see 1500mah, if I was to guess sub 1000mah:thumbsdow


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## CelticCross74

some kind of law needs to be put into effect against counterfeit cells like these. I learned the hard way not to buy Ultrafires. They nearly caught fire on my i4 and the chemical smell was so overwhelming I cant believe I did not pass out and die. The same 3100mah glossy red wrapper Ultrafires are still for sale today.


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## CuriousOne

Ebay is a world of phenomenon. I'm selling on ebay by myself, and encountered truly amazing stories. For example, I sold a camera lens to customer in Germany, in about 2 weeks, he wrote me positive feedback, telling how great lens is, all ok. Nothing special. But in about 2 months, I got that parcel back, with stamp text in German, meaning "recipient not available". I've contacted that guy immediately, asking him, whenever he wants me to refund or to resend. He was very curious, stating that he already got my item, what I'm talking about?


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## snakebite

ven said:


> I bet you would be lucky to see 1500mah, if I was to guess sub 1000mah:thumbsdow


still too generous.
one my neighbor bought for $1.39 shipped just for s&g tested around 400.and was off balance.so tiny cell and mystery powder.
hey they have to dump that corrosive,toxic drywall stuff somehow...


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## CelticCross74

OP I hope you have disposed of these toxic potential fire hazards...


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