# 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics & now w/ beamshots!)



## Nereus (Feb 26, 2007)

I finished this mod 2 years ago, but now that I have learned to post pics it is time to report about this mod to fellow CPFers. The specs are:

- Welch Allyn 10W HID bulb overdriven at 11W
- WA B10N008 ballast running at 11 V input voltage (see next point)
- LM2670 dc/dc step-down converter set to 11v, installed to the tailcap
- 12 AA nimhs (yes, that's 12, not 8 AA nimhs in a 2D body :green: )
- Modamags light stipple aluminium reflector
- UCL lense
- Glow powder + epoxy mix behind the reflector
- Body inner diameter sanded 1 mm larger to accept overly fat Energizer 2500 nimhs - awful job! :green:
- Tailcap inner diameter sanded 3 mm larger to accept the step down converter.
- Due to step-down converter nimhs, alkalines or primary lithiums can be used.

Here is a general pic of the mod. There is a tiny 4 mm tall microswitch under the mag switch rubber. I threw the original switch to thrash bin because it is too bulky.







Here is the business end. Yes, I removed the glass cover of the HID bulb  Watching carefully you can see a reflection of me and my camera  (Anyone recognising what camera I am using will get this mod FREE :nana: ) 






12 AA nimhs AND WA ballast AND a step-down converter in a 2D mag = mission impossible?






There is no battery holder. Instead, I glued small sticks (is this the correct word here?) to the inside surface of the battery tube (and yes, guys, before you ask I can tell that there is a PENCIL at the 6 o'clock position  ). They keep the batteries in place. You can see 3 contacts coming to the tailcap. On right and left there are plugs for the ballast input. Up there you can see red two-pin BEC socket that comes directly from the microswitch under the rubber cover shown above. The microswitch drives a low on-state resistance mosfet in the tailcap to turn the flashlight on/off.






Not a very good foto, but it shows you the bottom (front end) of the battery tube. That is just the ballast back side there to which I glued contacts for the batteries.






This is how you install the batteries - you simply slide them in. The four sticks (?) hold them in the correct place.






Here is the tailcap bored (=sanded) out to accept the step-down converter. You know guys, boring is BORING without lathe  Tailcap outer surface took some damage during "boring" process.






Here is the converter unit (quite ugly, I admit - but it is inside the light and works great!)...






...and this is what it looks like plugged to its place:






Here you can see the contacts of the converter unit. On right and left there are two plugs for the ballast input. The red BEC socket up there gets the signal from the microswitch.






Here you can see the coil and input and output capacitors of the converter:






Here you can see the other side of the coil and the LM2670 converter (TO220 package):






What else could I tell... The LM2670 converter is surprisingly efficient, I measured the efficiency to be 91%.  Here is the datasheet: http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/nationalsemiconductor/LM2670.pdf . The converter squeezes absolutely everything out of the nimhs: the runtime is exactly 143 minutes of flat, constant full brightness (Energizer 2500 nimhs). Then the output collapses totally in only 1 minute and the light turns off. After that the nimhs are so dead that you can't even turn the light on! :green:

Thanks for looking! 

-N


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## IsaacHayes (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Wow, a lot of work and thought went into that!! Very nice!!

Olympus U720SW, S720SW is what camera you used right? It's too easy to look at your images metadata 

How is the mosfet wired to go on/off? I have a few sitting here collecting dust from an amp repair project.


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## baylisstic (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

"Anyone recognising what camera I am using will get this mod FREE"

That's the Olympus Stylus 720!


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## baylisstic (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Oops, IsaacHayes beats me to it.


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## ZeissOEM2 (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Olympus only if he doesent took a photo with another camera,get it printed and used the Olympus to take a shot of the printed photo.


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## winny (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Greetings Nereus from the other side of the Gulf of Bothnia!

Very nice work! :goodjob: 

A couple of questions... 
How does the bare bulb like the atmosphere? Normal metal halides won't last long in free air so I have to ask. How is the reflector holing up against the UV radiation from the exposed bulb?

I find your build very interesting and I'm curious about it.
Have you got any comments on it from your friends?


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## Ctechlite (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*



winny said:


> Greetings Nereus from the other side of the Gulf of Bothnia!
> 
> Very nice work! :goodjob:
> 
> ...



I think he just removed the covering. The bulb is still encapsulated by it's gas retaining glass envelope.


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## MikeSalt (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

I've heard that the voltages in HIDs can be rather dangerous. Have you incorporated some form of safety device should the case become live? It is a beautiful device, and a brilliant 'sleeper' flashlight. I bet the standard incandescent stock 2D beam looks like a joke compared to this one.


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## 65535 (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

The case shouldn't come live even if it does, the operating voltage is rather low, the strike voltage however is quite high,


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## IsaacHayes (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Isn't it 80volts when running, and high current? 40v to conduct on skin. But I wouldn't be too worried.


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## Ken_McE (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Beamshots please. Just give me a time and I'll go outside and look north.


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## liveforphysics (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Outstanding Work! I'm very impressed. 

Best Wishes,
-Luke


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## ICUDoc (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Great job and thanks for the photos!


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## Nereus (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*



winny said:


> ... How does the bare bulb like the atmosphere? Normal metal halides won't last long in free air so I have to ask...


If you have a look on a non-modified WA HID bulb below you see that there are two small holes in the glass outer cover root. So air flows freely in and out of it and it has no role to play when it comes to air tightness. The actual quartz HID capsule (diameter some 2mm) has remained intact and airtight.






I'm sure there is increased UV exposure and to be honest I have no idea how it affects the reflector... We'll see 

The turn-on peak voltage of the WA ballast is 6000 volts and the minimum distance from the wires to the aluminium reflector is 4mm. The dielectric stregth of air is 3000 V/mm so there is 100% safety margin there. Yet, I admit that this is a bit like "living dangerous", so keep the outer glass cover there if you feel uncertain about removing it.

And yes, I built some degree of safety action against possible current leakage to the flaslight body. First, the flaslight body does not usually play any role as part of the circuitry. Secondly, for all threaded parts of the flaslight I sanded the oxidisation down so that bare aluminium can be seen. This means that even if there would be leakage current to the body, it will act as one big block of aluminium. As a result it is very hard to get electric shock because there is only minus or plus available to your hand - not both at the same time.

Thanks for the positive feedback, guys!  You are way too smart "guessing" what camera I use! 

-N


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## Nereus (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*



IsaacHayes said:


> Wow, a lot of work and thought went into that!! Very nice!!
> 
> Olympus U720SW, S720SW is what camera you used right? It's too easy to look at your images metadata
> 
> How is the mosfet wired to go on/off? I have a few sitting here collecting dust from an amp repair project.


Thanks!  That's a IRL3102 n-type mosfet, here is the datasheet: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/I/R/L/3/IRL3102.shtml . The mosfet source is connected to battery minus and the drain to the load minus. The maximum gate-source voltage is 10V so you can not connect gate directly to battery plus (12*1,4V=16,8V and alkalines can be used as well -> 12*1,5V=18V). That is why the mosfet gate is connected to battery bank middle point (6 AAs) through the microswitch. There is also a pull-down resistor (some 10 kOhm) between gate and source.

Now that I read the text above I notice that I forgot to mention that alkalines can be used also in this mod, due to step-down converter. Even 1,7 V no-load voltage primary lithiums can be used. Have to edit the first post... 

-N


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## Nereus (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*



ZeissOEM2 said:


> Olympus only if he doesent took a photo with another camera,get it printed and used the Olympus to take a shot of the printed photo.



Unfortunately that trick exceeds my photographing skills with an incredible margin! 

-N


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## winny (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*



Ctechlite said:


> I think he just removed the covering. The bulb is still encapsulated by it's gas retaining glass envelope.



Of course! I asked because normal metal halides, sodiums and mercury vapor blackens, crack, blows out and/or change color rapidly when the outer bulb is broken. There are of course exceptions, like one of Thorn's MH lamp (link ), but it's unusual.


Nereus,

Cool! I didn't know that.
I second Ken_McE's opinion. Put up some beamshots!


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## smurf_boi (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

great moD..i wish i could do that to my 2D mag...and...can it work on alcalines as well?


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## Ra (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

A few years ago, WA started producing these bulbs without the protective outer-bulb. However, being very small, they apeared to be too fragile. So WA designed the protective bulb around the inner bulb, to prevent the inner bulb from being touched.

So, removing the outer bulb doesn't affect the performance..







Regards,

Ra.


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## petersmith6 (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

and for the most important question...are you selling any of thease and if so how much...and BEAM shots


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## 65535 (Feb 27, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

FYI the 21 watters don't have the glass themselves, they should fit better


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## Nereus (Feb 28, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*



smurf_boi said:


> great moD..i wish i could do that to my 2D mag...and...can it work on alcalines as well?


Yes it can. Due to the step-down converter the light is not sensitive to input voltages. You can use nimhs, nicds, alkalines or primary lithiums. The input current is some 1 amp so only good alkalines should be used.

-N


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## BVH (Feb 28, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

I removed the outer glass from my Mag2HId W/A lamp before I sold it. It worked fine. I left a small piece of outer glass in place to facilitate installation and removal. My eye could not tell if there was an increase in brightness.


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## Nereus (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*



petersmith6 said:


> and for the most important question...are you selling any of thease and if so how much...and BEAM shots



After finishing this mod https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/154668 the mag HID has become somewhat obsolete so it may appear in the BST forum... We'll see 

-N


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## Nereus (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*



Ken_McE said:


> Beamshots please. Just give me a time and I'll go outside and look north.


I'm going to the countryside this weekend for beamshots. Have a look on northern sky saturday evening at 21:00 EET. Watch for weird looking aurora borealis, that's me and my maghid! 

-N


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## Aepoc (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Nice light. Its good to see pics of what others are doing. I like how you used pencils to align the batteries. 

Can't wait for beamshots.


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## r3d33m3r (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Impresive work and some extensive knowledge of electronics. GOODDDD!!!!

Regards.


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## Nereus (Mar 4, 2007)

*Re: 2D Mag goes regulated HID! (lot of pics!)*

Thanks for your comments!  Now it is time for beamshots! The beamshot competitors are below, standard 2D Mag and Mag HID...







First one indoor beamshot... I guess I don't need to tell you which one is Mag HID? 






Standard 2D Mag and Mag HID side by side, close distance:






Next some far distance beamshots. First, here is the benchmark to show you that it was almost "quality dark". I took the benchmark pic from exactly the same position using a stand than the following beamshot pic so compare it to this pic:






The distance to the shed is some 200 m (checked with a map). Poor std 2D Mag could not throw that far...






There was another shed there, this time the distance is some 300 m (again, checked with a map). First a benchmark pic...






...and here you can see the shed (the same stand position than in the pic above). And again, poor std 2D Mag could not throw that far...






Nice after glow isn't it? 






A bit different angle:






This is where the glow is coming from: the bulb socket is surrounded by green glow powder + epoxy mix:






Okay folks, do we have a winner in the std Mag 2D vs. Mag HID beamshot competition? 

-N


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## nutz_about_lights (Mar 5, 2007)

Yup. The HID certainly whopped he std's a*s. :laughing:


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## roadie (Mar 5, 2007)

:goodjob: 

i wish i am at least half as capable as u ......


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## Elton (Mar 6, 2007)

:goodjob:


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## Nereus (Mar 11, 2007)

Thanks guys for the positive feedback!  Can you believe that the cheapest (and still very far from cheap!!!) way to buy Welch Allyn B10N008 ballast + bulb in Finland is to order UKE Light Cannon 100 from Brightguy and disassembly it! :green: A friend of mine is professional diving teacher and he almost started to cry when he heard that I never used the LC100 for its intended purpose but instead I disassemblied it immediatly after getting it out of the box and used only 2 parts from it and threw the rest to trash bin...  Well, he is not the only person who thinks that I have gone crazy when modding flashlights! 

-N


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## Nereus (Apr 9, 2007)

I went to countryside this weekend and made some throw tests... Can you believe that maghid has no problems illuminating a detached house from a distance of 700m?!? (Checked the distance with a map) This makes me think that the practical upper limit for throw is some 1 km. That's incredibly much from a 2D mag!





I tried to take some beamshots but I am a beginner and unfortunately I can not provide you with pics of the far distance performance of the flashlight.





-N


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## Valolammas (Apr 11, 2007)

WOW, that's amazing!! And here I was thinking of modding my 2D Mag with a lowly 6V 5W GU4 bulb... Oh well, I'll still do it, got to start somewhere. But now you got me thinking of those 12V MR16s, since it apparently IS possible to stuff 12 AAs into a 2D. Hmm...

(The reason I was going to use a 5W bulb is that I don't have a metal reflector, so if you happen to have extra ones laying around that you'd be happy to get rid of, drop me a PM. )


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## FILIPPO (Apr 11, 2007)

Nereus said:


> I finished this mod 2 years ago, but now that I have learned to post pics it is time to report about this mod to fellow CPFers......... -N


 
I' d like just to say that this is my favourite MAG 2D mod I have ever seen!! 
:wow: very very good job nereus (and very good pics )


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## modamag (Apr 11, 2007)

Nice mod nereus. :twothumbs
It's amazing how you fit 12x cells AND a step-down regulator in there.


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## Nereus (Apr 13, 2007)

Thanks, guys! 

-N


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## Nereus (Apr 13, 2007)

I got an interesting PM from CPF member Ra: what happens when input voltage drops when batteries get empty?

I asked about the converter behaviour from a National engineer 2 years ago. Even though the LM2670 is a step down converter, it doesn't go to direct drive when input voltage sags. It regulates the output voltage with PWM and maximum duty cycle for it is 91%. This means that given the fixed 11v output voltage, 13,2 volts is the minimum input voltage that keeps the converter in full regulation. If input falls below that, output will drop accordingly. (You can not find this info in the datasheet.)

13,2 volts means 1,1 volts per cell. Usually nimh cell is almost empty if its voltage drops this low under relatively light ~1 amp load. And keep in mind that the output dies very fast, within one minute, when batteries get empty. That's why it can be said that the time there is less than 1,1 volt average cell voltage is very short. Hence, the risk of cell reversal is quite little.

-N


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## LuxLuthor (May 16, 2007)

Great mod, and very interesting project. Nice Job!


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## Bushman5 (Sep 22, 2007)

great mod, i'm getting inspired to venture forth into some soldering now.


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## Fulgeo (Aug 6, 2008)

Belated great mod! Wanted to ask how well this mod survived. Ballast still working? Reflector finish still pristine? Lamp still alive etc. Also any more insight on HID flashlights, did you make a 35W HID or better mod since? Anyway thanks for sharing your mod.:thumbsup:


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## Nereus (Aug 9, 2008)

Fulgeo said:


> Belated great mod! Wanted to ask how well this mod survived. Ballast still working? Reflector finish still pristine? Lamp still alive etc. Also any more insight on HID flashlights, did you make a 35W HID or better mod since? Anyway thanks for sharing your mod.:thumbsup:


 
Thanks for the positive feedback!  The mod is working just fine, no problems at all. At the moment I'm working with a 50W HID mod but I guess that it is going to take some time before it is ready.

-N


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