# Why do Americans put the date the wrong way around?



## Norm (Dec 17, 2013)

Why do Americans put the date the wrong way around? 

Norm


----------



## orbital (Dec 17, 2013)

+

Bad stuck guess habits in I..

_hehe_


----------



## TEEJ (Dec 17, 2013)

I suppose it's because we want to know the month first. ..and once we know the month. ...THEN we want to know the day.

The year is rarely referred to, a mere afterthought we tack on at the end if needed.


----------



## badtziscool (Dec 17, 2013)

I think it's because when we write out our dates, we write it as such: Tuesday December 17, 2013. Which in numerical notation becomes 12/17/2013. So I guess it's not a very good translation from written date to numerical notation (more lazy than anything else), but it's what we're used to.


----------



## Ropes4u (Dec 17, 2013)

We are rewriting history


----------



## orbital (Dec 17, 2013)

Ropes4u said:


> We are rewriting history





>>>>> :twothumbs


----------



## 880arm (Dec 17, 2013)

Huh? I thought everyone else had it wrong!


----------



## nbp (Dec 17, 2013)

I write it the way it is said verbally, month then date. If someone asks the date, I say December 17th, not 17 December. Why would I write it the opposite way?


----------



## dc38 (Dec 17, 2013)

nbp said:


> I write it the way it is said verbally, month then date. If someone asks the date, I say December 17th, not 17 December. Why would I write it the opposite way?



Traditionally grammatically, I think December 17 is improper. The 17th of December is the proper way. As far as the mmddyy format, I had the same preconception as Teej.


----------



## Lampbeam (Dec 17, 2013)

Ropes4u said:


> We are rewriting history



Personally, I like to put the year first e.g. 131217. This is good for cataloging photographs and what not. But I believe we changed it to "rewrite history" and to go against the British who were upsetting us at the time. You know, by burning down the White House and Library of Congress along with a bunch of other places. The French were considering doing something similar during the French Revolution when they wanted to make a decimal week with ten days instead of seven. Only eight more days until the weekend everybody! Hang in there!


----------



## archimedes (Dec 17, 2013)

Mathematically, shouldn't it go from larger to smaller ? ... Year > month > day ... > hour > minute > second ... :thinking:

Like, thousands > hundreds > tens > ones > tenths > hundredths ... etc


----------



## degarb (Dec 17, 2013)

Norm said:


> Why do Americans put the date the wrong way around?
> 
> Norm



Don't tell me the rest of the world went to the metric dates too!?! Somehow, we got left behind! We Americans are still stuck on confusing month lengths and 365.25 day years--leaping wildly every 4 years, just to make room for one more day of campaign ads. While the world enjoys a more simple, serene ten months annually, with simple ten day weeks, and totaling a round 1000 days each years? Thanks alot, Ronald Reagan!


----------



## degarb (Dec 17, 2013)

deleted by author


----------



## nbp (Dec 17, 2013)

A brief web search seems to indicate that this is an oft debated issue with almost no clear answers on why anyone does it the way they do. :shrug:


----------



## Replicant (Dec 17, 2013)

dc38 said:


> Traditionally grammatically, I think December 17 is improper. The 17th of December is the proper way. As far as the mmddyy format, I had the same preconception as Teej.



How is it grammatically improper to write the month first?


----------



## Blueskies123 (Dec 17, 2013)

Norm said:


> Why do Americans put the date the wrong way around?
> 
> Norm


Because we needed to be the opposite of anything British, like driving. You guys down under never fully understood.


----------



## HarryN (Dec 17, 2013)

I do a lot of on-going work with people in the EU. My solution is to always write out the month, or at least 3 letters of it, so that there is not any confusion. example a) 13 DEC 2013 or b) 2013 DEC 13. The advantage of writing it the (b) method is that it at least partially auto sorts files which are named this way, at least in the right year.

Similar to Lampbeam I guess.


----------



## Norm (Dec 17, 2013)

Blueskies123 said:


> Because we needed to be the opposite of anything British, like driving. You guys down under never fully understood.


Actually driving on the right is more common than driving on the left.







Norm


----------



## dc38 (Dec 17, 2013)

Replicant said:


> How is it grammatically improper to write the month first?



Because of American English, just about ANYTHING can be turned into a..."noun" 'December 17th' is treated as a noun, but it is not. While universally recognized as a day or date, it could very well mean December OF 1917, etc.. '17th of December' is a noun as it represents the 17th day of December.

prepositions or something or other


----------



## tomthebaker (Dec 17, 2013)

Because we are trend-setters. You all need to keep up!


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 17, 2013)

US military speaks 17 December. We citizens of the US say the month first because then it is clear we are talking about a date. Starting with the number of the day of the month is slower to understand because we use numbers for so many other things.


----------



## Lightning Bub (Dec 17, 2013)

Because we Yanks do things the right way and refuse to stick with tradition for the sake of sticking with tradition. We're innovators. It's the reason that a 235 year old country is responsible for the majority of technology in the past 100 years. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way! ;-)


----------



## Lou Minescence (Dec 17, 2013)

Australia is on the other side of the world from the US. Therefore you are looking at the date backwards from us or we are looking at it backwards from you. It's all the same.


----------



## Norm (Dec 17, 2013)

Lightning Bub said:


> Because we Yanks do things the right way and refuse to stick with tradition for the sake of sticking with tradition. We're innovators. It's the reason that a 235 year old country is responsible for the majority of technology in the past 100 years. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way! ;-)



Who invented the WIFI your probably using right now? 

Norm


----------



## skyfire (Dec 17, 2013)

never thought about it. and now that i am. i cant understand it. writing the day first makes so much more sense. saying 17th of december, as opposed to december 17th is clearer with less confusion.

same can be said as to why america has not switch to the metric system... i hate using "standard" wrenches and sockets. and i hate having to buy 2 sets of tools.


----------



## Norm (Dec 17, 2013)

skyfire said:


> same can be said as to why america has not switch to the metric system... i hate using "standard" wrenches and sockets. and i hate having to buy 2 sets of tools.


That's a whole new topic, feel free to chip in on the metrics system if you wish, this is the off topic area, :devil: 

Norm


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 17, 2013)

Is hubris a sign of decline? Look where SO many of these cutting edge flashlights are coming from. The World is here to stay, and is more and more realizing they don't have to be an 'also ran'. 

If the day of the month is twelve or less, I would like to try to abbreviate the month to avoid confusion with military and international folks.


----------



## Lightning Bub (Dec 17, 2013)

skyfire said:


> never thought about it. and now that i am. i cant understand it. writing the day first makes so much more sense. saying 17th of december, as opposed to december 17th is clearer with less confusion.
> 
> same can be said as to why america has not switch to the metric system... i hate using "standard" wrenches and sockets. and i hate having to buy 2 sets of tools.



I drive a Korean car (Hyundai Genesis Coupe) and refuse to invest in SAE wrenches and sockets. If a metric wrench or socket won't fit, then it isn't getting loosened.


As far as WiFi being an Australian invention, I had no idea!


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 17, 2013)

I thought Australians were more into sport and good times than cutting edge technology (unless it is a sport toy)


----------



## Norm (Dec 17, 2013)

Lightning Bub said:


> If a metric wrench or socket won't fit, then it isn't getting loosened.


I received a good imperial socket set as a 21st present from my Dad (the only gift from my 21st I can still remember) when Metric became more common here I complimented the existing sockets with a set of Metrinch sockets, I've often removed bolts that had been rounded using these.

Norm


----------



## thedoc007 (Dec 17, 2013)

Lampbeam said:


> Personally, I like to put the year first e.g. 131217.



I cringed when I saw this. Clearly, we didn't learn much from the Y2K (non)crisis. More than anything, regardless of whether the month or day (or year) is first, we need to adopt a STANDARD length. Month is two digits, day is two digits, year is four digits, and preferably with a divider. (/ or . or - or whatever, just something to set it apart.) As least then we have some idea that we might be looking at a date. 131217 could be anything...not instantly recognizable as a date, nor is the format clear. That could be a random number, or December 13, 2017, or the intended December 17, 2013. The worst of all possible options, in my opinion.


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 17, 2013)

KITROBASKIN said:


> I thought Australians were more into sport and good times than cutting edge technology (unless it is a sport toy)



Well now I thought someone would call me on the narrow minded comment above. Just goes to show you how friendly so many Australians are. That's what my father said after visiting there years ago.


----------



## Lampbeam (Dec 17, 2013)

thedoc007 said:


> I cringed when I saw this. Clearly, we didn't learn much from the Y2K (non)crisis. More than anything, regardless of whether the month or day (or year) is first, we need to adopt a STANDARD length. Month is two digits, day is two digits, year is four digits, and preferably with a divider. (/ or . or - or whatever, just something to set it apart.) As least then we have some idea that we might be looking at a date. 131217 could be anything...not instantly recognizable as a date, nor is the format clear. That could be a random number, or December 13, 2017, or the intended December 17, 2013. The worst of all possible options, in my opinion.



Good thing I'm not in charge of how we express the date. Because I would go by the number of years since the formation of the world which would be 4,500,002,013 followed by the month, followed by the day. So the date would be 45000020131217. And let's use dashes instead of slashes. 4500002013-12-17. Oh, that's nice. Everybody agreed?


----------



## skyfire (Dec 17, 2013)

Lightning Bub said:


> I drive a Korean car (Hyundai Genesis Coupe) and refuse to invest in SAE wrenches and sockets. If a metric wrench or socket won't fit, then it isn't getting loosened.
> 
> 
> As far as WiFi being an Australian invention, I had no idea!



the standard sets are for work, while the metric sets are for the garage. those standard sets might actually come in handy, since my next vehicle is going to be a truck. not sure which yet though... my choices are rather limited here....

heres a question for you, Norm. are small pick-up trucks still available in your part of the world? here in the states, we have large, and larger trucks. i miss those little 4-cylinder pick-ups.

back on topic... from now on im going to try and date in the format of 17DEC2013. or at least try and get myself used to it.


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 17, 2013)

Here in America, metric sized ball bearings are more expensive than inch sized.

The beginning of Existence: 13 something billion years ago?


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 17, 2013)

The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from...

Yes, some sort of ascending or descending order makes the most sense, but once some sort of standard catches on it's hard to dislodge.

Personally, I prefer YYYYMMDD since that's how numbers are expressed - most significant digit first.

Perhaps we can make a deal. The US will use a coherent date standard (YYYY/MM/DD or DD/MM/YYYY) if the rest of the world will stop using commas as the decimal separator since it breaks the analogy to how language is expressed... drives me up the wall along with abuses of engineering notation _(I've seen nonsense like 0.1kV ... *really?*)_.


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 17, 2013)

KITROBASKIN said:


> Here in America, metric sized ball bearings are more expensive than inch sized.



There are countless standards based around imperial measurements ... 16ga wire, 18ga sheet steel, 1/2" plywood (or rather the more inane 15*32"), and bulk chemicals sold by the 55 gallon drum. These are slowly changing with the availability of 1.29mm wire, 1.2mm steel sheet, 12mm plywood, and the relative ease of hand-waving 55 gallons as 208 liters _(you're going to use liters/kg for the chemistry anyway)_.

But yes, metric components are harder to find and more expensive than imperial components in the US - especially at the consumer level. At the wholesale level this is less of an issue, but the components may still be more expensive due to lower volume.


----------



## Norm (Dec 17, 2013)

skyfire said:


> heres a question for you, Norm. are small pick-up trucks still available in your part of the world? here in the states, we have large, and larger trucks. i miss those little 4-cylinder pick-ups.


Most of the Japanese makers have a smaller four cylinder pick up or as they're more commonly called here utes. 



idleprocess said:


> and the relative ease of hand-waving 55 gallons as 208 liters _(you're going to use liters/kg for the chemistry anyway)_.



In most of the world 55 Gallons = 250.035* Litres* . The imperial (UK) gallon, defined as exactly 4.54609 litres, The US gallon, is equal to 3.785411784 litres.

Comparison of the Imperial and US customary systems

Ain't we havin' fun? :huh:

Norm


----------



## N_N_R (Dec 18, 2013)

Loool, a good question   We also prefer Day.Month.Year.

Whenever I buy some new device with pre-set date and time or when I receive some automatic message, I always wonder if they mean 5th day, 8th month or 5th month, 8th day ... lol. Until I set everything myself.


----------



## mvyrmnd (Dec 18, 2013)

Occasionally I run into software where the developer has forgotten the rest of the world exists and has hard coded something to need MM/DD/YY... And I have to change the entire OS to use that to make it work.

As far as the notations being related to how the date is spoken, if you ask me what today is, I'd say "the seventeenth of December". It works both ways. The notation affects the speech which affects the notation.


----------



## tygger (Dec 18, 2013)

Norm said:


> Most of the Japanese makers have a smaller four cylinder pick up or as they're more commonly called here utes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah, the ole imperial vs. us gallon discussion.  Lol, and don't get me started on Celsius and Fahrenheit conversions! That one is a real pain.


----------



## Skimo (Dec 18, 2013)

I used to use the Julian date while I was in the military, at least on some forms. I now abbreviate the month on some forms and in some communications to avoid any possible misunderstanding as not all Americans follow the same convention.


----------



## chris_786 (Dec 18, 2013)

Lightning Bub said:


> It's the reason that a 235 year old country is responsible for the majority of technology in the past 100 years. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way! ;-)



Oh dear, poor misguided soul.


----------



## Steve K (Dec 18, 2013)

idleprocess said:


> The great thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from...


this is one of my favorite sayings! It's unfortunate that I find so many opportunities to say it, though. 



idleprocess said:


> Perhaps we can make a deal. The US will use a coherent date standard (YYYY/MM/DD or DD/MM/YYYY) if the rest of the world will stop using commas as the decimal separator since it breaks the analogy to how language is expressed... drives me up the wall along with abuses of engineering notation _(I've seen nonsense like 0.1kV ... *really?*)_.



First, let me say that after being in the military and working on defense projects, my habit is to write "18 Dec 2013". 

Secondly, engineering notation is a funny thing, or at least the choice of units can be. As a EE, I was taught to use uF and pF when measuring capacitance (this was before supercaps, so no one had ever seen or measured a 1F cap). Every so often, I deal with engineers who use nF when describing a cap, and I have to do a quick mental translation .... "10nF? oh.. you mean 0.01uF. Why didn't you just say so?". For me, nF are the equivalent of measuring length in decimeters. You can do it, but you'll just annoy everyone else.


----------



## yoyoman (Dec 18, 2013)

I am an American living in Europe and it took awhile to get used to format. But look at this -> 18 December 2013 <- No punctuation is needed!


----------



## orbital (Dec 18, 2013)

+

 Switching to Metric worldwide should be done, it's simpler & more logical.

Why we insist on hanging on to English measurement is a headscratcher




regarding that tricky 55gal drum,, just make it *25dal* (decaliter) __________ 1dal=10L


----------



## Steve K (Dec 18, 2013)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Why we insist on hanging on to English measurement is a headscratcher



and as an English buddy ("mate") explained to me "it's not "english", it's "Imperial" measurement". Just another communication issue to deal with!


----------



## orbital (Dec 18, 2013)

^

I know Steve,, if you Google _english measurement_ you still get the farm


________________________


----------



## nbp (Dec 18, 2013)

If I were to verbally say it as it is written with the dd/mm/yyyy format then I need two extra words to explain: THE 1st OF December. If I verbally say it with the mm/dd/yyyy format I just find it easier: December 1st. No extra words needed. I just like it better. 

However I may just start using the format some have mentioned of 1 DEC 2013. No punctuation, no room for error. I like it.


----------



## Steve K (Dec 18, 2013)

orbital said:


> ^
> 
> I know Steve,, if you Google _english measurement_ you still get the farm
> 
> ...



hmmm.... "get the farm"?? Now I'll have to Google that...

but.. the wiki page on "English Units" is pretty entertaining. Tons (tonnes?) of arcane units of measure used in Imperial units, or "United States customary units". 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_units

For instance, we've all heard of the foot as a unit of length, and may be familiar with "hand" as a unit of length (mostly used for the height of animals), but did you know that there is a finger (7/8 inch) and a digit (3/4 inch) too? Fun reading, and certain to make you appreciate the metric system even more.


----------



## ven (Dec 18, 2013)

Also drive on the wrong side of the road :nana:


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 18, 2013)

Norm said:


> In most of the world 55 Gallons = 250.035* Litres* . The imperial (UK) gallon, defined as exactly 4.54609 litres, The US gallon, is equal to 3.785411784 litres.


In my haste, Google failed me.

Edit - apparently it didn't:
_Many drums have a common nominal volume of 208 litres (55 US gal; 46 imp gal)_

My frame of reference is clearly the US Gallon.



> Ain't we havin' fun? :huh:


Indeed.


----------



## subwoofer (Dec 18, 2013)

Blueskies123 said:


> Because we needed to be the opposite of anything British, like driving. You guys down under never fully understood.



This is probably the most correct answer in this thread, the French did it too.

Trying not to be biased (being a Brit and all), the reason the British drive on the left comes from the days of horseback riding. Statistically most people are right handed, and when passing another rider you would pass on the left so that your sword arm (your right arm) could 'engage' the other rider. This convention carried on into other road users and ultimately driving.

If one were to take a look at driving independently of the history of road use, the need to drive on the right or left is not as clear. However what it might depend on is if the driver needed to 'wield' anything out of the car window. Now as a right handed person, approaching a restaurant drive-through, I certainly find it easier to have my right arm able to reach out of the window than my left, so am glad of the British way of driving on the left. The majority being right handed still makes sense in the context of driving and therefore driving on the left seems the most logical to me.



Norm said:


> Actually driving on the right is more common than driving on the left.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Unfortunately this shows just how much the British pissed off the rest of the world!


Back on topic, the only numeric date formats that make any sense are those that are either in ascending or descending order of significance. Working in IT, my preference is for YYYYMMDD as using this in file names allows for easy sorting in date order (which is totally messed up when having the DD as the first characters). I also find DDMMYYYY acceptable in all other instances as just like postal addressing it starts with the least significant value.

For the sake of common sense, the US really should ditch the 'American date format'. It is bad enough that they speak 'American English' (or Ameriglish as I like to call it), but at least this is understandable. ISO 8601 exists, why don't we all use it!


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 18, 2013)

subwoofer said:


> Trying not to be biased (being a Brit and all), the reason the British drive on the left comes from the days of horseback riding. Statistically most people are right handed, and when passing another rider you would pass on the left so that your sword arm (your right arm) could 'engage' the other rider. This convention carried on into other road users and ultimately driving.


The explanation I've read is that the proper "side" of the road depends on when the country was settled. When approaching another party on a path in a near lawless area, you would be wary and wish to keep your weapon ready _and_ protected from the other party. Swords are traditionally carried on the left with a cross-draw to the right being almost universal; firearms tend to be holstered or slung on the right. These conventions tended to carry over when improved roads then motorized vehicles were adopted. But then left-hand drive automobiles became more popular than right-hand drive and numerous countries made the conversion in the 20th century.



> If one were to take a look at driving independently of the history of road use, the need to drive on the right or left is not as clear.


Indeed - most reasonable comparisons I've read draw largely upon artificial conventions _(ie, motorcycle kickstands are on the left, thus left-handed driving is slightly safer for riders since they mount/dismount from the curb)_ and conclude that the argument for one vs the other is extremely weak.



> Now as a right handed person, approaching a restaurant drive-through, I certainly find it easier to have my right arm able to reach out of the window than my left, so am glad of the British way of driving on the left.


You get used to reaching over to your left at the drive-through easily enough 



> It is bad enough that they speak 'American English' (or Ameriglish as I like to call it)


_“The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.” 
― James Nicoll_

At least we can still communicate so well that the differences amount to minor points of contention between grammarians on either side of the Atlantic and the kind of ribbing we're engaged in now.


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 18, 2013)

Steve K said:


> and as an English buddy ("mate") explained to me "it's not "english", it's "Imperial" measurement". Just another communication issue to deal with!



I was initially going to refer to it as "SAE" (Society of Automotive Engineers), but realize that convention is generally limited to measures of distance and perhaps fluid volume.


----------



## alpg88 (Dec 18, 2013)

Norm said:


> Actually driving on the right is more common than driving on the left.
> 
> Norm



in jamaica they say left side is a right side, right side is a suicide


----------



## Norm (Dec 18, 2013)

orbital said:


> regarding that tricky 55gal drum,, just make it *25dal* (decaliter) __________ 1dal=10L


Which Gallon should we choose ? 

Norm


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 18, 2013)

Steve K said:


> First, let me say that after being in the military and working on defense projects, my habit is to write "18 Dec 2013".


That format works well in verbal situations, but is lacking when you're trying to sort anything digital. Not as big a deal when you've got raw data to work with and a sensible format is but a conversion function away, but a rage-inducing brain-dead design function when you can't extract raw data and some app sorts it _as-displayed_ rather than true ascending/descending order.



> Secondly, engineering notation is a funny thing, or at least the choice of units can be. As a EE, I was taught to use uF and pF when measuring capacitance (this was before supercaps, so no one had ever seen or measured a 1F cap). Every so often, I deal with engineers who use nF when describing a cap, and I have to do a quick mental translation .... "10nF? oh.. you mean 0.01uF. Why didn't you just say so?". For me, nF are the equivalent of measuring length in decimeters. You can do it, but you'll just annoy everyone else.


uF/pF is a long-established standard, so I'll except that because I'm feeling gracious.

If you looked hard enough, you'd find >1F capacitors in high-power situations such as industrial power supplies, car stereos, etc. They were enormous components, typically larger than a 32oz beer can.

Still annoys me to see nonsense like 4500mV, 0.2A - which I've seen on consumer equipment that should say 4.5V, 200mA. While some weenie may be making a rather oblique statement about the supposed accuracy of the values through their counter-intuitive choice of units, that's something for the spec sheet, not the product label or user docs.


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 18, 2013)

Norm said:


> Which Gallon should we choose ?
> 
> Norm



The 55 US Gallon drum is in wide use, nominally 44 Imperial gallons / 200 liters.


----------



## savumaki (Dec 18, 2013)

Because they can!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do it different for the same reason.


----------



## Kestrel (Dec 18, 2013)

... and don't even get me started about the ton.


----------



## Capolini (Dec 18, 2013)

TEEJ said:


> I suppose it's because we want to know the month first. ..and once we know the month. ...THEN we want to know the day.
> 
> The year is rarely referred to, a mere afterthought we tack on at the end if needed.


 
Agreed!

What judge ruled our way to be the wrong way?!!!! lol!!

Maybe we want to be different! lol! :thinking: oggi- diciotto Dicembre 2013! That is how my relatives[like most of the world!] in Italy say it. I said Today-18th of December 2013.

Whatever the day, however it is written,,,,,,ENJOY IT! 

WOAHHHHH,,,,,,,,It is darkkkkkkkk TK75 tonight with Capo the wolf!


----------



## mvyrmnd (Dec 18, 2013)

Here, I fixed it for you:


----------



## Capolini (Dec 18, 2013)

mvyrmnd said:


> Here, I fixed it for you:



Hold on a second now!! It looks like the absolute "Majority" are in "Red",the right side of the road! lol!


----------



## skyfire (Dec 18, 2013)

my question is:
what feels more natural, and comfortable? 
driving manual vehicles with the stick shift on your right or left side? i drive with one hand a lot, and even when im driving an automatic car, i tend to use my left for the steering wheel.


----------



## Norm (Dec 18, 2013)

skyfire said:


> my question is:
> what feels more natural, and comfortable?


How you learnt to drive dive feels natural, which ever side of the road you learnt on.

A mate of mine plays a right handed guitar up side down and left handed, do you think he would play that way if it didn't feel natural?

Norm


----------



## mvyrmnd (Dec 18, 2013)

Capolini said:


> Hold on a second now!! It looks like the absolute "Majority" are in "Red",the right side of the road! lol!




This isn't "majority rules"... just because most people do it doesn't make it correct.



skyfire said:


> my question is:
> what feels more natural, and comfortable?
> driving manual vehicles with the stick shift on your right or left side? i drive with one hand a lot, and even when im driving an automatic car, i tend to use my left for the steering wheel.




It feels far more comfortable for me to change gears with my left hand. I have better steering control with my right hand as it's my primary hand, my left is not good for much else than pushing a lever back and forth. FWIW I only ever drive manuals - autos are for steerers, not drivers.


----------



## skyfire (Dec 19, 2013)

mvyrmnd said:


> This isn't "majority rules"... just because most people do it doesn't make it correct.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i would think it would feel more natural for me to use my dominant arm too, but it doesnt. 
maybe it is because of how i learned how to drive? steering with my left, while my right arm is messing with the radio.
i did drive around a manual truck in thailand for a few days, and i was getting more comfortable with it.


----------



## Capolini (Dec 19, 2013)

Norm said:


> How you learnt to drive dive feels natural, which ever side of the road you learnt on.
> 
> A mate of mine plays a right handed guitar up side down and left handed, do you think he would play that way if it didn't feel natural?
> 
> Norm



An American named Jimi Hendrix[ever hear of him?!!] also played a guitar that way!!!! He was a master guitarist!

ot- what kind of music does your friend play?


----------



## Beamhead (Dec 19, 2013)

To the original question...because we can.


----------



## subwoofer (Dec 19, 2013)

Beamhead said:


> To the original question...because we can.



It may have been said before but I can't stop myself...Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


----------



## Beamhead (Dec 19, 2013)

And who is the power/final arbiter that sets whether we can or can't? I *can* help myself..... 


subwoofer said:


> It may have been said before but I can't stop myself...Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.


----------



## Eric242 (Dec 19, 2013)

mvyrmnd said:


> Here, I fixed it for you:


You just had a small typo in there.... here it is fixed the way you intended it


----------



## Capolini (Dec 19, 2013)

Eric242 said:


> You just had a small typo in there.... here it is fixed the way you intended it



Now that is a *VERY, VERY, VERY SMART AND CREATIVE GENTLEMEN FROM GERMANY!!!

GUTEN TAG!!!
*


----------



## Norm (Dec 19, 2013)

Capolini said:


> An American named Jimi Hendrix[ever hear of him?!!] also played a guitar that way!!!! He was a master guitarist!
> 
> ot- what kind of music does your friend play?


Jimi never played with the stings strung right handed, he played a right handed guitar strung left handed, the friend I'm talking about is originally from AR.

Seeing you mentioned Hendrix, here he is a video of him playing All Along the Watchtower - Bo Jenkins



Norm


----------



## Capolini (Dec 19, 2013)

"Originally POSTED BY *mvrmnd"*


This isn't "majority rules"... just because most people do it doesn't make it correct.

******************************************************************************

This isn't "Minority" rules either!!! lol!!!

This all falls in the category of "Who really cares" and "is it really that important" to spend energy trying to change others peoples minds? 

Sometimes what starts out as fun, can turn into- "THE APPLICATION OF MY SIGNATURE"!:thinking:


----------



## Capolini (Dec 19, 2013)

Norm said:


> Jimi never played with the stings strung right handed, he played a right handed guitar strung left handed, the friend I'm talking about is originally from AR.
> 
> Seeing you mentioned Hendrix, here he is a video of him playing All Along the Watchtower - Bo Jenkins
> 
> ...




Off Topic/ On Topic!!

I hope I can get this to work,,,,,I am no expert on a computer! My Two oldest Brothers saw Jimi Hendrix on the 12th of April 1969 at the Philadelphia Spectrum.

I was blessed to know Al Hendrix for almost 20 years. I sent this pic. to "Flashlion", a member on here.This pic. was taken on May 1st 2000 in seattle, Wa. in Al Hendrix's house!

I AM SORRY,IT LOOKS TOO BIG! I THOUGHT THIS VERSION HAD LESS PIXELS THAN MY ORIGINAL PIC.! :sigh:

Regardless of "How" Jimi played. no one could play like him. He simply revolutionized the guitar. Guys like Eric Clapton, Jeff Beck, Pete Townsend[all very talented] were humble enough to realize that Jimi was in a different category than them.


----------



## Norm (Dec 19, 2013)

Capolini I had to delete your last post as it was locking the whole page up, you need to host the image and post a link to that image. PS there is no off topic in the thread 

Posting photos 

Norm


----------



## Capolini (Dec 19, 2013)

Norm said:


> Capolini I had to delete your last post as it was locking the whole page up, you need to host the image and post a link to that image. PS there is no off topic in the thread
> 
> Posting photos
> 
> Norm


  Sorry Norm!!  :sigh:

I am frustrated!! I need to learn how to make my photos have less pixels. If my Brother comes over Saturday, he can help!


----------



## Capolini (Dec 19, 2013)

These two pics. were taken in April[me, jet lagged w/ Jimi Hendrix shirt on!!!] and May of 2000[me w/ Phila. Wings shirt] with James Allen Hendrix, Jimi's dad. Taken in Al's house in Seattle, Washington U.S.A.

I have another one with me playing one of Jimi's guitars!! I do not think I have that on my computer. I have about 6 or 7 Christmas Cards from Al, a picture of Jimi preparing for concert that he sent me and a few letters that we exchanged.

Notice the double Platinum Albums in back round along with a great pic. of Jimi right behind Al Hendrix!!!

Al was a very nice man. He passed away Two years after these pics. in April of 2002.

*THANKS NORM, GREAT JOB!!!*


----------



## ironhorse (Dec 19, 2013)

Don't get me started on having to use celcius at work.


----------



## Norm (Dec 19, 2013)

ironhorse said:


> Don't get me started on having to use celcius at work.



Nice warm day here, expecting 26 

Norm


----------



## nbp (Dec 19, 2013)

Norm said:


> Nice warm day here, expecting 26
> 
> Norm



Hey it was 26 here too! But it was a cold 26.... :nana:


----------



## smokinbasser (Dec 19, 2013)

It's just because you are on the opposite side of the globe it looks bassackwards.


----------



## Lou Minescence (Dec 19, 2013)

I'm using tapatalk on a mobile phone in the US and the dates of the posts are in the American formats. Is the date displayed the US way for CPF members outside the US ?

Reading around the internet there really is no explanation why Americans record the date the way we do. We can probably blame it on England somewhere in history.

My explanation is my school teacher made me do it.


----------



## Norm (Dec 19, 2013)

Lou Minescence said:


> I'm using tapatalk on a mobile phone in the US and the dates of the posts are in the American formats. Is the date displayed the US way for CPF members outside the US ?


 Yes, no way of changing the way it displays that I'm aware if.

Norm


----------



## Jay R (Dec 20, 2013)

nbp said:


> If I verbally say it with the mm/dd/yyyy format I just find it easier: December 1st. No extra words needed.


 OK, but who came second ?


----------



## Jay R (Dec 20, 2013)

Capolini said:


> Now that is a *VERY, VERY, VERY SMART AND CREATIVE GENTLEMEN FROM GERMANY!!!*



Now if only the Germans wrote their numbers the correct way. I work in a company that sent a bill out to a German client for € 780,500. They paid us € 780.50 because they use commas for full stops and stops to designate thousands. ( I guess they ignored the extra zero on the end. ) I had to ask them for the remaing € 779,719.50. Perhaps they thought they got a bargain ?

Oh,and we don't use imperial here much in the U.K. any more. About the only thing we still use is miles and pints. We buy 'gas' by the litre and I didn't dig out my imperial socket set for years....


----------



## Eric242 (Dec 20, 2013)

Capolini said:


> Now that is a *VERY, VERY, VERY SMART AND CREATIVE GENTLEMEN FROM GERMANY!!! GUTEN TAG!!!*


G´day youself 



Jay R said:


> Now if only the Germans wrote their numbers the correct way. I work in a company that sent a bill out to a German client for € 780,500. They paid us € 780.50 because they use commas for full stops and stops to designate thousands.


Well, I don´t think that´s a matter of commas or dots but rather a certain amount of dumbness involved  Or they thought it was worth the try....hehe

Eric


----------



## Capolini (Dec 20, 2013)

Jay R said:


> Now if only the Germans wrote their numbers the correct way. I work in a company that sent a bill out to a German client for € 780,500. They paid us € 780.50 because they use commas for full stops and stops to designate thousands. ( I guess they ignored the extra zero on the end. ) I had to ask them for the remaing € 779,719.50. Perhaps they thought they got a bargain ?
> 
> Oh,and we don't use imperial here much in the U.K. any more. About the only thing we still use is miles and pints. We buy 'gas' by the litre and I didn't dig out my imperial socket set for years....



Like I said, Germans are very smart!! He used that money to but a lot of good German Beer and Plenty of BMW's and Mercedes!! lol!


----------



## mvyrmnd (Dec 20, 2013)

Norm said:


> Nice warm day here, expecting 26
> 
> Norm



We got to 41°C yesterday


----------



## Norm (Dec 20, 2013)

mvyrmnd said:


> We got to 41°C yesterday


Here's our weather link West and South Gippsland District Forecast.

Norm


----------



## Capolini (Dec 20, 2013)

mvyrmnd said:


> We got to 41°C yesterday


 Wow!! That is hotttttttttt! That is 105.8F!! That would make me frown to!


----------



## Norm (Dec 20, 2013)

Capolini said:


> Wow!! That is hotttttttttt! That is 105.8F!! That would make me frown to!


We had a top of 48 or 49 during bushfires a couple of years ago, that's about 120F :devil:

Norm


----------



## Capolini (Dec 20, 2013)

Norm said:


> We had a top of 48 or 49 during brushfires a couple of years ago, that's about 120F :devil:
> 
> Norm



They get that kind of weather in Texas, Arizona, Calif. desert and a few other places. I much prefer weather like this:!

Vostok, Antarctica Weather Forecast from Weather Underground

Forgot something! They have the world record "LOW" temp. at -89C/-128F!!

It is summer there now!

Annual Temp. range b/w -30F[-34C] and -65F[-53C]!


----------



## 0dBm (Dec 20, 2013)

Today is 20Dec2013. That is how it should be written so that the month and day are immediately identified.
It's confusing if the month is only written numerically.
I got grief throughout my schooling years; however, I never waffled from that practice. 
Even had points deducted from several term papers because I refused to comply with whatever the convention happened to be at the time. I argued with administration by simply asking if my method was wrong. I never got an answer. Points were returned to me eventually. ,'~D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mvyrmnd (Dec 20, 2013)

Norm said:


> We had a top of 48 or 49 during brushfires a couple of years ago, that's about 120F :devil:
> 
> Norm



What makes it worse is that in the same year we got to -10°C overnight in winter...


----------



## dc38 (Dec 20, 2013)

mvyrmnd said:


> What makes it worse is that in the same year we got to -10°C overnight in winter...



Nice new avatar.


----------



## mvyrmnd (Dec 20, 2013)

Hahah thanks. The last one was 4 years old - and needed a new one for a game I'm playing ATM. I decided I liked it.


----------



## nbp (Dec 20, 2013)

mvyrmnd said:


> Hahah thanks. The last one was 4 years old - and needed a new one for a game I'm playing ATM. I decided I liked it.



I get so confused when people change their avatars. :sigh: Do other people identify me by my avatar like I do them? Many regular posters I just know right away by their pic and I don't need to look at the handle..


----------



## mvyrmnd (Dec 20, 2013)

I do the same a lot of the time. Some people always use variations of a theme, and updates aren't too jarring.

Mine changing from mostly red to blue is weirding me out - I can't even find my own posts any more!


----------



## nbp (Dec 20, 2013)

mvyrmnd said:


> I do the same a lot of the time. Some people always use variations of a theme, and updates aren't too jarring. Mine changing from mostly red to blue is weirding me out - I can't even find my own posts any more!



Yeah that switch is gonna take me a while to get used to. :huh:

Imagine if StarHalo got rid of noodle cat or gunga changed Opus? It messes me all up!

I didn't notice much when Norm changed his 'cuz I don't read his posts anyways. :nana:


----------



## mvyrmnd (Dec 20, 2013)

nbp said:


> Yeah that switch is gonna take me a while to get used to. :huh:
> 
> Imagine if StarHalo got rid of noodle cat or gunga changed Opus? It messes me all up!
> 
> I didn't notice much when Norm changed his 'cuz I don't read his posts anyways. :nana:


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 20, 2013)

Not to worry Guys, I'm never going to change mine. :shakehead

~ Chance


----------



## Lou Minescence (Dec 21, 2013)

Norm said:


> We had a top of 48 or 49 during bushfires a couple of years ago, that's about 120F :devil:
> 
> Norm



We had relatives from Australia visiting when a snow storm hit. We were preparing for power outages.
It was new for my young nephew. His father explained it was just like preparing for brush fires at home except there was no need to gather firewood to stay warm.


----------



## Chauncey Gardiner (Dec 21, 2013)

Lou Minescence said:


> We had relatives from Australia visiting when a snow storm hit. We were preparing for power outages.
> It was new for my young nephew. His father explained *it was just like preparing for brush fires at home except there was no need to gather firewood to stay warm.*



.......and it's a lot more fun building snowmen and having snowball fights than catching on fire.

~ Chance


----------



## degarb (Dec 21, 2013)

Norm said:


> Actually driving on the right is more common than driving on the left.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Interesting graphic. This is an interesting topic-standards that affect economics.

Would not "being in the minority of nations to drive on left", make car importation and exportation more expensive? Unless you had an active automotive industry with nothing that the world wished to own, I don't see the this policy makes any sense.

By simplifying standards, you can save a nation billions annually in educational costs. I can only imagine how much the French spend annually to teach genders of words, the Spanish on complex grammar, the Chinese on symbols, and the US on spelling exceptions. I have been beating my head into the wall the last 4 months trying to teach my daughter that me is spelled "me" and not "mee".

I do like my inches and feet, since there is an anatomical equivalents to these measurements.


----------



## KITROBASKIN (Dec 21, 2013)

degarb said:


> Interesting graphic. This is an interesting topic-standards that affect economics.
> 
> Would not "being in the minority of nations to drive on left", make car importation and exportation more expensive? ....
> 
> I do like my inches and feet, since there is an anatomical equivalents to these measurements.



No one could calculate the injuries and death resulting from visitors from a 'right side of the road' country driving in a 'left side of the road' country, and vice versa. But realistically, if Australia and other 'leftist' countries somehow decided to join the world driving on the right side, how many injuries and death would result from that change?

Many of us have a thumb that is one inch wide at the joint; very handy (thumby?) as well as a foot that is a foot (12 inches) long. I think that is what degarb was talking about.

For measurements less than an inch (unless it is half inch, maybe a quarter), it is better to use mm. The only problem for me is having to visualize mm's. Being familiar with 9mm firearms... And aren't cigarettes about 100mm, or 10 cm? Those are the comparisons I remember. What do other people use to remember the less familiar units of measurement?


----------



## nbp (Dec 21, 2013)

It seems expensive for car manufacturers to have to retool and redesign for right hand drive versions of cars for just a couple countries. What a waste of money! I don't understand why that wouldn't be the first thing to standardize.


----------



## Norm (Dec 21, 2013)

nbp said:


> It seems expensive for car manufacturers to have to retool and redesign for right hand drive versions of cars for just a couple countries. What a waste of money! I don't understand why that wouldn't be the first thing to standardize.


When you look carefully the basic shell of modern cars they are ambidextrous and a minimum of parts are needed to build a car that is left or right hand drive. I'm not sure if US built cars are, but that seems to be the case for Asian manufactured cars.
A bit like TVs in the past a set was made to suit the TV standards and power supply of a certain country, (NZ even had a different standard to Aus.), seems now all TVs are multi standard and run from 100V up. Things are now built for a world market.

Norm


----------



## stemll (Dec 21, 2013)

Lightning Bub said:


> Because we Yanks do things the right way and refuse to stick with tradition for the sake of sticking with tradition. We're innovators. It's the reason that a 235 year old country is responsible for the majority of technology in the past 100 years. Lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way! ;-)




Really?

TV, jet engine, ballpoint pen, movie camera, loudspeaker, aerosol can, radar, helicopter, internal combustion engine, turboprop, kidney dialysis, WWW, touchpad, DNA profiling, iris recognition, RSA cipher (topical today), integrated circuit, stainless steel, CT scanner. How many american inventions in there?

Sure you could come up with a list of US inventions like the nuclear reactor, the zipper, artificial heart, lithium batteries (maybe) and so on but sorry, to claim the majority is laughable.


----------



## Capolini (Dec 21, 2013)

Capo "My Siberian Husky" enjoying the snow,,,,,,,,,,,10.12.2013 or 12.10.2013,,,,as long as its snowing the Numerical order of the date makes no difference to him!!!


----------



## compasillo (Dec 21, 2013)

Funny and "transcendental" thread I found here!
As DM51 would say: resistance is futile. 
Metric system, driving on the right side of the road, "ddmmyy" date format... that seems to be the logical POV but... I'm not sure.


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 21, 2013)

I recall reading that when Sweden converted from driving on the left to driving on the right, there was a significant decrease in accidents for about a 12 month period. This was attributed to greater driver attention to driving as a result of the uncertainty caused by the switch.


----------



## degarb (Dec 22, 2013)

stemll said:


> Really?
> 
> TV, jet engine, ballpoint pen, movie camera, loudspeaker, aerosol can, radar, helicopter, internal combustion engine, turboprop, kidney dialysis, WWW, touchpad, DNA profiling, iris recognition, RSA cipher (topical today), integrated circuit, stainless steel, CT scanner. How many american inventions in there?
> 
> Sure you could come up with a list of US inventions like the nuclear reactor, the zipper, artificial heart, lithium batteries (maybe) and so on but sorry, to claim the majority is laughable.




It actually is true that the US led the world in inventions in the 20th century. Sure there are reasons like our harboring creativity, individuality, and the narrative of the individual coming up with a great invention to become the next millionaire. The real reason is the rest of the world blew up their industrial capacity with 2 world wars and got themselves into huge debt over it. It takes decades to recover. While the US cleaned up and filled the gap.

To invent you need free time, local small machine shops (to build your prototypes), zero regulations, cheap/strong intellectual rights, and someone locally to sell your product to (who won't steal the idea).

Now we are regulation crazy/insane, falling wages (means most of us have less free time), most machine shops in my area went under in last 2 decades, etc.


----------



## idleprocess (Dec 22, 2013)

Norm said:


> When you look carefully the basic shell of modern cars they are ambidextrous and a minimum of parts are needed to build a car that is left or right hand drive. I'm not sure if US built cars are, but that seems to be the case for Asian manufactured cars.
> A bit like TVs in the past a set was made to suit the TV standards and power supply of a certain country, (NZ even had a different standard to Aus.), seems now all TVs are multi standard and run from 100V up. Things are now built for a world market.
> 
> Norm


Automobile manufacturers seems to be standardizing on the concept of the "global car" that uses a standard chassis that can be _localized_ for varying national markets at the lowest possible cost through the fewest component swaps possible. Production can occur anywhere with the capability to produce particular components/assemblies and available capacity. Given that US automakers have utilized standard _platforms_ for years (ie, GM typically has <10 active platforms for its ~50 models available at any point in time), it would be shocking if they were not working on global cars for numerous platforms.


----------



## Jumpmaster (Dec 22, 2013)

Norm said:


> We had a top of 48 or 49 during bushfires a couple of years ago, that's about 120F :devil:
> 
> Norm



I've worked in 138F before.


----------



## Capolini (Dec 22, 2013)

Jumpmaster said:


> I've worked in 138F before.


 Where was that? The desert or some type of production facility with ovens?!


----------



## Jumpmaster (Dec 23, 2013)

Capolini said:


> Where was that? The desert or some type of production facility with ovens?!



Iraq.


----------



## Capolini (Dec 23, 2013)

Jumpmaster said:


> Iraq.



God Bless you! I am guessing you were/are in the military, if not God bless you anyway!

*HAPPY HOLIDAYS!*


----------



## Jumpmaster (Dec 23, 2013)

That's very kind of you...thank you and God bless you too. Yes, I was/am in the military. Glad I don't have to go back there...it's like a little piece of hell on Earth. Glad to serve, but also glad to be home safe...and driving on the right side of the road.


----------

