# The neglected LOW LEVEL



## Kiessling (Dec 20, 2008)

Warning! Long winded post ahead. Bring beer and chips. 

Now that LED lights rule the planet, several things changed. We have brighter and brighter lights with more and more efficient emitters. We have a huge diversity of beam shapes and a multitude of different lights of all kinds available to feed our hunger.

One thing though I think is still underrated. The ability of LED lights to be driven below spec with positive instead of negative effects, unlike incan bulbs. This gives us this thread title. The LOW LEVEL. While we often state that we want a "lower low" in almost all of our lights, the evaluation of this new beast, the low level, pretty much ends there.
However, the low level has much more to offer, and since I am not that well trained with words like some others in these halls, I'll mostly let the pictures do the talking. I'll demonstrate a few very interesting low level options we now have at our disposition.

For this, we'll use some of those lights (always with new batteries) to demonstrate a few things:










First, the reference point. Something we all know. The overdriven 5mm Nichia DS or GS LED, not that I could distinuish the two, and not that it mattered:






Photon Freedom White, always at full power







A Zebralight H30 - a Cree XR-E Q5 behind an acrylic optic producing a concentrated flood beam (3 brightness levels)







A McGizmo LunaSol20 (left) running 3 x Nichia 3mm (20mA) on low and a Golden Dragon (400mA) on high as well as a ...
... McGizmo SunDrop-3S (right) running a Nichia 083 High CRI LED behind a custom sapphire optic for a concentrated flood very similar to the Zebralight at 400mA (3 brightness levels)







Surefire E2L 2-stage version with a Cree behind a TIR and ... 
Surefire U2A, a 6-stage light running a Seoul SSC P4 LED in a reflector.


All those lights can produce a low level of illumination in addition to their main beam, some have different beams on high an low, some do have flood only with no throwing high beam.
In this post, we'll focus on what those lights can do for us in situations where a 10.000 lux blaze of light would be most unwelcome and where either a low level of illumination or a different type of beam is required.

All pics are shot with fixed camera settings and white balance "daylight", and all pics have been made brighter for the same amount (of course they came out too dark :green and cropped on the PC but otherwise untouched.
The problem of the auto white balance is an obvious exaggeration of the differences in beam color. It is also good to know that the camera exaggerates the contrast of the illumination, meaning our eyes are able to adapt better to the different levels of light than the camera can, for the eyes, the scenarios look less harsh and pronounced. But since this effect helps me to illustrate my points, I really do not mind it 

The lights do not put out the same luminous flux of course. I adjusted those with more than one lower level to an adequate brightness level to my eyes, meaning a level that was actually useful to me, all those who can't be adjusted have to do with what they can offer.



*First ... reading a book*

A typical task for low level illumination is reading something. A book in a tent, a map, whatever. 
The light was held approximately 30cm or so next to the head of the researcher for a comfortable reading position.
The pics:






Photon Freedom on maximum burn






SF E2L, low level






McGizmo LunaSol20, low level (3x3mm Nichia)






Zebralight H30 on medium






McGizmo SunDrop-3S on medium






Surefire U2A on Level3/6


As we can see ... flood beams rock in this application and spot beams suck. It is that easy. Close-up work ... 1:0 for the flood team. 
Another noteworthy fact is the color rendition where the Nichia 083 High CRI in the SunDrop kills the competition. This is a big difference for those reading intellectually thrilling comic books or those reading maps, I suppose.

Here's an incan shot as a comparison, a SF N1 lamp, showing the reddish incan spectrum where the Nichia 083 is right in between the incan and the other LEDs :









*Next ... near field illumination*

The typical situation where you look for something on the floor, do some work on the back of your computer etc. As this is a pseudo-scientific post, we'll add some tacticool to the mix.
Sgt. Smith in his mean (and dusty) Battletank :






... is looking for some lost crew members in the urban jungle:






... and we must illuminate his way and help him find them. 

Distance to target (light to the tank, which is about 15cm long) is roughly 70 cm or so. The crew members hide in the lower right corner of the map.






Photon Freedom on maximum burn






SF E2L on low






McGizmo LunaSol 20 on low






Zebralight H30 on medium






McGizmo SunDrop-3S on medium






SF U2A Level 4/6 now since Level 3/6 was too dim


IMHO we can draw similar conclusions as above, nothing new to report. Our tough warrior would find his men with a flood beam of sufficient strength. Orientation with such a beam is way superior to spot beams, AND a flood beam is way more forgiving when you move the light around a bit, by accident or not.



*Last ... room sweeping*

Another typical task ... illuminating the interior of our homes when navigating or doing other things that do not require switching on the big bad CFL at the ceiling. 






Photon Freedom max






Sf E2L on low






McGizmo LunaSol20 on low










Zebralight H30 on medium (above) and high










McGizmo SunDrop-3S on medium (above) and high






SF U2A Level4/6


Those pics show in a most impressive (because exaggerated by the camera) way the tunnel vision you get with throw lights in close quarters. Due to the high lux of the spot and the big dynamic range in comparison to the spill, the eyes (and even more so the camera) adapt to the spot which makes peripheral vision outside the spot difficult, which is hard on the eyes and which requires a very good and steady aim of the light to avoid loosing your "target".
Flood beams are way more useful here and easy on the eyes and require no special training classes in "how to aim a flashlight". 
With the H30, we get the additional benefits of it being a headlamp, too, which can come in quite handy. An interesting point is the superior and very pleasing color rendition of the SunDrop with the Nichia 083 High CRI.

Note that the lux at the beam center in the middle of the pics is lower for the H30 and the SunDrop than for the other lights, yet the broad illumination they provide is way superior. As is the power consumption though.


*BUT* this comparison shows something else, too. It shows the usefulness of a dedicated flood and/or low beam light. Look what both the Zebralight and the SunDrop can do:









SunDrop-3S example


Both those lights can deliver a concentrated flood at various intensities and can thus deliver an adequate "surround beam" for ultra close-up as well as room illumination where the lux numbers appear very close, which is relaxing for the eyes and very practical. The boring book and the table are illuminated with the same brightness at the various distances. 
No other light in this comparo can do this, and while this sounds really lame and uninteresting, it is soooo practical and ergonomic in use. 

Of course this post is very biased towards the needs of lower lux illumination and the lights that look like real loosers now didn't get a chance to show their muscles. But oh well, those were the rules of the game, and those situations are common enough to warrant specific lights that fulfill those requirements. 

There are a few lights that do very well both in the near field and in a more throw-oriented environment. Here, it is the LunaSol20 with a floody low and a throwing high beam (not featured today). Similar and well known is the SF A2 incan/LED combo and also the Streamlight TwinTask lights. None of those excels in any particular lighting need, but they are th emost overall usefull tools from a general lighting point of view.

I am sorry for not including a SF A2 here, but I sold my black one and the new one isn't here yet :green:


*In the end ... * the low level is more than just less light. Or better ... it can be more, if you have a light that was built with this in mind.
Flood beams simply rock in this application, and the new High CRI LEDs that surface now add a very nice and useful touch to it, too. With the enormous flux of the power-LEDs we have today, we can well afford to loose a few lumens in order to gain color control of this magnitude IMHO.

- IMHO a light that has both a floody low and a throwing high is more useful than a light with a uniform beam at low and high, and it is so more than you might think if you have never experienced it to date.
- IMHO a dedicated flood light with more than one level is a must for any flashaholic doing close-up work on a regular basis. If this light has a High-CRI LED, even better.
- the low level is more than just less light. It is a different light in many ways, but just as important than the high level. It has even merit on its own, without a throwy high level, see above.

Those three last ones are my personal conclusions to all this low level stuff. It is just as important to master the low level and the flood as it is to master the blaze of glory that rivals the sun. Because you really need it more often 


So ... anyone who wants to take my LunaSol20 or my SunDrop from me ... you're welcome to try :devil:








A historical note: 
There is a reason that there are two McGizmo lights in this comparison. I mean despite the fact that I think they are the best a flashlight has to offer and that I really like them . Don has always been advertising a floody beam, and of this nature was also CPF's first full custom light, the legendary McLux, which shall be honored here and today, now that the flood beam has evolved into something very mature.








bernie



P.S.:for all those interested in the High CRI stuff and color perception, which is really really complicated and which I really did not represent well ... here are two thread that are more than interesting to read:

js's thread about a LED that rivals incan color rendition

McGizmo's thread about High CRI and its significance


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## BigBluefish (Dec 20, 2008)

Just plain excellent, Kiessling.


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## Not_Holic (Dec 20, 2008)

Very nice post, Kiessling. And most refreshing after suffering all of the noise and clutter that overwhelms CPF.

Thank you!


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## applevision (Dec 20, 2008)

Outstanding post.

This is really "keeping it real", away from the constant drone of brighter/longer and with the most important telos in mind.


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## Kiessling (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanx guys 

Here's two white wall shots to illustrate some of the beam profiles a bit more:

SunDrop vs. Zebra H30, both on high:





SunDrop vs Photon Freedom:






bernie


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## chaoss (Dec 20, 2008)

Great post, thank you.


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## kaichu dento (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanks so much for bringing some focus to one of the most important features for any multi-level light!


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## jimmy1970 (Dec 20, 2008)

One of the best threads I have ever seen/read regarding the realities of flashlight use.

The low level, flood style beam is the one I almost always use.

I have a 6P with Malkoff M60 & another 6P with Malkoff M60WLF - guess which one gets 95% use - the M60WLF - a more pratical beam for most uses.

The M60 is a great thrower for impressing people but I don't often have to illuminate objects at over 300 feet away!

Thanks again for a great thread!:thumbsup:

James...


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## Flying Turtle (Dec 20, 2008)

Thank you, Bernie. Great work, as always. As a long time fan of the low level I couldn't agree with you more.

Geoff


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## Kiessling (Dec 20, 2008)

Thanx again 

James ... do you have some comparative shots of the Malkoff? I am interested in the "F" and "L" characteristics compared to some well-known lights. 
I have one M60W on order, but not the "F" and the "L".

bernie


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## Ratton (Dec 20, 2008)

Hi There,

Enjoyed your post!!! Really liked you pictures!! Great food for thought...it's an area I haven't thought too much about, but now I must look at closer.

Thanks for your insight and for taking the time to share with us, but you may have cost me some money!!!


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## Snow (Dec 20, 2008)

Great post. It illustrates what I appreciate about the SF A2: a floody, useful low beam with a more concentrated high.

BTW, what comic book is that? If I had to, I'd guess the Hedge Knight stuff from George RR's world.


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## Kiessling (Dec 20, 2008)

It is one of J.M. Linsner's DAWN comics.

And yes, the A2, the one light that really should have been in that post. Sometimes, timing sucks.

bernie


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## fieldops (Dec 20, 2008)

Nice pics, Kiessling! Thanks!

Very interesting discussion. As of late, I've been collecting the big throwers, but also believe in the need for good low level flood options. The one thing about our hobby is that there is a light for every purpose. As you have said, this has not always been the case.


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## jimmy1970 (Dec 20, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Thanx again
> 
> James ... do you have some comparative shots of the Malkoff? I am interested in the "F" and "L" characteristics compared to some well-known lights.
> I have one M60W on order, but not the "F" and the "L".
> ...


I will see what I can organise.

James...


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## WadeF (Dec 20, 2008)

There's a reason why I have 3 Zebralights and a 4th on the way.  The new H60 has a lower low than the H30 and H50, as well as taking a 18650. That's a low low for a long long time.  

The Sundrop looks great too, but out of my price range at the moment. 

The Photon Rex has a very low low, but not very floody. 

Maybe you should add in some home made diffusers to your tests. I keep a plastic cap over my Nitecore D10 which lowers the output and it's pretty much all flood. 

Once your eyes are adapted to the dark, it's hard to find a light that is too low if you just want to move around the house without effecting your dark adapted eyes. Whenever I think one of my lights isn't bright enough I fire them up full blast when my eyes are fully adapted to the dark. A nuclear bomb may as well be going off in my fast because ~200 lumens at close range is blinding.


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## marinemaster (Dec 20, 2008)

I agree with Kiessling on this topic even if he manages to close my SF posts...just kidding.

I blame the LOW levels on the newbie on this forum that the first topic after they get register is ......what is the BRIGHTEST and CHEAPEST flashlight I can get.......lol

I agree that we definitely need LOW to take full advantage of the LED technology, that is why SF needs to move it and get Optimus out....


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## CRESCENDOPOWER (Dec 20, 2008)

How long is the Sundrop-3S? I didn't find any measurements in my search.


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## Burgess (Dec 20, 2008)

A very profound, well-written, and well-illustrated post, Bernie.


Nothing beats having the Right Flashlight for the job at hand.


:goodjob::kewlpics:
_


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## StarHalo (Dec 20, 2008)

Nice to see a comparison test of some of the top-shelf lights, nicely done.

This further reinforces my love of the JetBeam Jet II IBS; thanks to its infinitely variable brightness control, ability to go down to 2 lumens, and removable head/reflector assembly, you get both the flood of the Zebralight with the low output of a keychain light. And it's priced more than 80% off some of the reviewed lights :thumbsup:


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## csshih (Dec 20, 2008)

A very illuminating post, if you'll pardon the pun.

Craig


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## NoFair (Dec 21, 2008)

Great Posts Bernie. Reminds me why I need another beamshaper for my C series Surefires

The good thing about a light with a tight beam is that a good beamshaper makes it a great flood, tightening a beam isn't that easy. 

Sverre


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## cdosrun (Dec 21, 2008)

Bernie,

Very well done, I certainly didn't appreciate the benefits of a decently floody beam until I bought the Zebralight H30 and find myself using it a lot for that reason.

As you mentioned CRI and colour rendition, have you seen any sort of comparison between the Nichia high-CRI led and a Cree of 3A bin? I am aware there is a difference between colour termperature and CRI but I only have the latter of the two and have found it to be far superior to the typical WC/WH bins of the Cree for colour rendition; skin even looks natural!


Andrew


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## ICUDoc (Dec 21, 2008)

Nice post Bernie- let's face it, a lot of LED use is nocte in-house navigation, and the right beam is the Zebra / Sundrop type, with even illumination over the field..


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## Oddjob (Dec 21, 2008)

Great post!! I completely agree with you.


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## sappyg (Dec 21, 2008)

thanks for this post kiessling. this should be considered required reading for all CPF'rs. 
when i started here i was constantly chasing lumins and at great expense. i don't know exactly when it finally dawned on me but i preffer flood to throw. when i got around to taking the malkoff plunge i knew what i wanted... an m60lf.


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## Budman231 (Dec 21, 2008)

... As stated previously...

I WANT A LUNASOL 20 DAMN IT...!! (jumping up n down, stomping feet)

Great post. Low/Floody is super important. A bright thrower is also important and both are used for completely different tasks. To have both in one light is awesome... I'd like to see some lower priced lights come out with this feature but keep the form factor similar to the EX10/P2D/LF3XT. 

Let put a few 3mm LEDs in a LF3XT type light and I think we will have a winner. They all must have have the variable brightness feature of course.! :devil:

Bud


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## Kiessling (Dec 21, 2008)

I am sorry I did not include any cheaper alternatives, but I don't have any after the reduction of my "collection". 

Beam shapers are a very good alternative, too, but I don't have any either as I'd like that my lights can do the stuff alone without any help 

This comparison is limited in light selection obviously, but it wasn't my point to outline specific lights. I wanted to show the use and possibilities with a different sort of illumination than a throwy high beam. I happen to have those lights in the pics, but there are of course many others.
It was not my intention to imply only expensive lights can give you interesting low beam options.

The High CRI Crees I don't have yet, my Malkoff M60W isn't here yet, but on its way 

cdosrun ... McGizmo tested the Cree vs the Nichia 083 and found the Nichia superior because it is way less yellow. It is High CRI and relatively high in color temperature as oppoesed to the Cree. If this subject is of interest to you, you should definitely read the linked thread started by js. There's a lot about this subject in it ... CRI, CCT, perception and what not. Very good posts there, and very complicated. 

CRESCENDOPOWER ... the SunDrop-3S is about 7.8cm long on the pictured McClicky body. It is an E-Series compatible light though and the head can be screwed on any other E-Series body. The head measures 2.1cm in length.









Budman ... the problem is that the 3mm or even 5mm LEDs like in the A2 to take up space and the heads become crammed. There is a limit to the size in such lights, and the LunaSol20 is pushing it, as you can see:






You need a somewhat decent reflector for the main beam, too. SF solved this by putting the 5mm LEDs in the main reflector, McGizmo puts them around.

bernie


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## Kiessling (Dec 21, 2008)

There are of course "intermediate" options like the SF L4 or the Titan. I originally included the Titan here but left it out in the first post due to the size of the post. 
Here's the *SF Titan* with an adequate brightness selected:














The Titan has the lowest low I ever saw. The emitter is barely glowing and you can look right up the throat of the beast and acutally enjoy it without even squinting. It is even lower than the Photon's lowest low.



Another light got left out for the same reasons, the *McGizmo Mule*:






It is similar in application as the Zebralight or the SunDrop, but it has a broader beam. The brightness depends on the model you have, and there are many. The one in the pic runs on 2x123 and pushes 917mA on high, it is thus considerably brighter than the two others.
Here's the Mule on low:








Another remark: Lights like the SF U2A above do have a nice spill beam looking like this (LuxV version in this old pic):






However, due to the high dynamic range the camera can't show the corona and your eyes do have difficulties, too, albeit less than the camera.


Here's a nice shot illustrating the Mule's beam without a hotspot and throwing portiion of the beam:








bernie


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## jeffb (Dec 21, 2008)

When I first visited CPF, Bernie was always  McGizmo regarding 5W lights. Because I'm slow, it took me awhile to understand the beauty and usefulness of a "flood" light that was also bright.

That "led"  to lower light appreciation; Endeavour's "Ion" became and still is one of my favorite lights, as it is all flood. The Surefie L4 with a 2 stage switch and Surefire U2 are great floody, yet bright lights. The recently sold Surefire Titan was the very best for low to high adjsustment.

Today I like the Lunasol 20, a TNC/w cree and no reflector (similar to Mule)
Spy005 with one level set very low; the aforementioned Ion and also Aeon.
I too utilize a Zebralight, occasionally. Nearly all my flashlights are two or three level.

So, Bernie....Thanks and Happy "low lighting" to ALL!

jeffb


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## Kiessling (Dec 21, 2008)

Another remark, and then I'll shut up ... for now 

Of course there are more factors dictating the use of certain lights, ergonomics being an important point. Sometimes you need a headlamp like the H30, and for certain applications some ...







... are better suited than others  :







More often than not, compromise is king.

bernie



EDIT: hi jeff :wave: ... and yeah, I remember the luxV -ing


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## marinemaster (Dec 21, 2008)

The second shot where I see the KX2 head meaning E2L which is clipped to the hat is EXACTLY what I do when I go hunting. That way I have my both hands free. I use the LOW 3 lumens when going in the woods in the morning and the 65 lumens when tracking a deer. 

This thread is excellent. 

Chris


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## FsTop (Dec 21, 2008)

Just a shout-out to those who have expanded the possibilities for a low-level flood EDC with throw capabilities, by writing up the water-bottle-cap diffuser for the D10. 
:twothumbs


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## selfbuilt (Dec 21, 2008)

Great write-up - very "illuminating" on the value of low light levels. 

Well done!


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## digitaldave (Dec 21, 2008)

Bernie,

An excellent and very informative post, thanks for posting it. I've learned quite a lot from it, most importantly is that I now want a McGizmo Sundrop or Lunasol . Seriously though, it's made me start thinking about getting some sort of light with a floody low level and a throwy high. Time to cehck out the options (cool though McGizmos are, they aren't cheap ).

Dave.


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## bigfoot (Dec 21, 2008)

Great post and great beamshots!!


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## Kiessling (Dec 21, 2008)

Dave ... the SF A2 is a light with floody low and throwy high and is mroe affordable. The Streamlight TwinTask lights are even more affordable, but I presonally find them lacking in quality, at least when I owned one some years ago.

I have no others present in my head, but then again, I really don't know all the lights out there right now. 

As others have pointed out ... a diffusor might be your friend. Cheap and versatile. SF has an excellent one, F04 beamshaper or something like that, that should be very efficient and transform a thrower into a nice flooder.

Or buy a Zebralight and carry two lights 

Thanx guys, really appreciate the comments 

bernie


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## Anglepoise (Dec 21, 2008)

Very informative post Bernie. A very low level is important to me and I feel that adjust ability needs to be built into every light. I don't like the idea of having to necessarily select a specific light that has a good low. All lights should be adjustable down from their full output setting. 

Eventually this 'feature' will be in every light we buy. I just hope the 'low' is really low. Some designers have the lowest setting too high as if it has just been selected as an after thought, as opposed to a really important feature.


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## Frenchyled (Dec 21, 2008)

Very nice (and long for my poor english  ) posts Bernie :thumbsup:

In my opinion, but you can tell me if I am wrong, the light which have the lower low level is the Titan from Surefire. I tried all my light to do a compare and even the HDS 60GT low is not as low as my Titan.....But I missed the sundrop and I don't know about it...

Hmm...I finally saw that you agree with that 

I wish I could write a very informative post like yours one day 

:wave:


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## orbital (Dec 21, 2008)

+

Thanks for starting this thread, perfect timing!

On Dec. 8th at 8am I put a new Energizer E2 primary in my Liteflux LF5.
Set it to its Lowest setting,..and as of today its still going...

I'll post it here when this AA primary burns out.


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## Jarl (Dec 21, 2008)

Going from a TK11 to a P7 for mountainbiking was similar for me; it makes me think that "throwers" are a necessary evil because there are no flood lights out there bright enough to compete with the throwers. After all, daylight is flood, not throw, so it seems the natural choice


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## Kiessling (Dec 21, 2008)

A thrower has another big advantage ... it doesn't blind the others. A light with a limited spill like the E2L in this comparison is much less likely blinding fellow people near me than the H30 or Mule would be doing.

Choices and compromises.

bk


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## StandardBattery (Dec 21, 2008)

Awesome! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Oznog (Dec 21, 2008)




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## digitaldave (Dec 21, 2008)

Wow. They really HAVE thought of everything!


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## coyote (Dec 21, 2008)

to re-quote bernie's findings from Post #1:

"- IMHO a light that has both a floody low and a throwing high is more useful than a light with a uniform beam at low and high, and it is so more than you might think if you have never experienced it to date.
- IMHO a dedicated flood light with more than one level is a must for any flashaholic doing close-up work on a regular basis. If this light has a High-CRI LED, even better.
- the low level is more than just less light. It is a different light in many ways, but just as important than the high level. It has even merit on its own, without a throwy high level...."

damn, bernie, i had thought some of these thoughts, but it took you to say it so well.

*bravo!!!*



(ps- my favorite Low-Level 'light to date is the original Ion. what a ultra-wide floody that is, with low lumens and a wonderfully soft beam for book reading.)


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## greenLED (Dec 21, 2008)

Nice thread, Bernie. I wholeheartedly agree with your observations.

I was in the field for a few days and for some weird reason I took my stock e2e along. Under some "quality darkness" (a few miles from the nearest town in a rural area) the e2e was *too bright* for me to walk around with.... and the e2e was a wide beam when compared to other incans!

The low level on my PD-S was about right for walking around. Actually, its high beam was better than the e2e for illuminating stuff at a distance.

Yup, LEDs rule the Earth (until I open my Christmas present and find everything I need to run my M6 off rechargeables!... but I can't fit my M6 inside my pocket.)


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## Kiessling (Dec 24, 2008)

I got my Malkoff M60W a few days ago and played with it. The color rendition is less ideal than the SunDrop as it is more reddish-yellow and has some color shift from spot to flood ... BUT ... it throws really well and has a very useful beam and is a big improvement over the usual cold LED color. IMHO of course. I am very satisfied with it. 
I do not have the "F" option though and can't comment on the flood characteristic. Of course this is a bit off-topic to the low-level aspect, too. 


Another thing ... there is a great video that touches the topic at hand comparing a SF E1B and a SunDrop - two lights of really different character - in various situations. Check out this thread:

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/216981

bernie


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## hank (Dec 24, 2008)

Great thread. As I mentioned in the 'every day' or 'most used' thread earlier, my most used is an old Streamlight Stylus 2xAAAA -- which came with a weak amber LED. I replaced that with a SMJLED (or a clone like it, I've forgotten) -- a LED that comes with the dome ground down to make it a wide flood without hotspot. 

(The Stylus has an ordinary bipin LED stuck into a little plastic/nylon cylinder so one pin contacts the side and the other comes out the center, real simple to just push out and swap)

For general walking around it's a little brighter than full moonlight over a 5 or 6' circle around me, plenty. 

Nothing else I have works that well for this purpose!


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## 007Runner (Dec 24, 2008)

Inside a house or tent a low level flood is wonderful. Most headlamps are perfect for reading or close up work. Any place where you have safety and familiarity.

Other then that, give me a powerful light with with good throw like a surefire tir optic. One night I saw a movie that ended at 11pm power failed. Ice storm hit big time. My point is basically a flood or low power flood is pretty much worthless if you are not in a familiar safe situation.
It was comforting to shine all that throw around the corners before I took a turn. 

I am a newbie, but that is my take on low power beams and floods.


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## Kestrel (Dec 24, 2008)

Anglepoise said:


> I just hope the 'low' is really low. Some designers have the lowest setting too high as if it has just been selected as an after thought, as opposed to a really important feature.


Yeah, comparing the low on my L1 (Cree) to the low on my L1 (Luxeon), what were they thinking?:thinking:


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## kaichu dento (Dec 25, 2008)

007Runner said:


> Inside a house or tent a low level flood is wonderful. Most headlamps are perfect for reading or close up work. Any place where you have safety and familiarity.
> 
> Other then that, give me a powerful light with with good throw like a surefire tir optic. One night I saw a movie that ended at 11pm power failed. Ice storm hit big time. My point is basically a flood or low power flood is pretty much worthless if you are not in a familiar safe situation.
> It was comforting to shine all that throw around the corners before I took a turn.
> ...


Your observations are perfectly valid and it's impossible to fault them, but the tilt of this thread was simply to bring some focus to the all too often overlooked low settings and their incredible value.

Up until recently most flashlights were well below what one could wish for and therefore focus was on maximum output. Now that outputs easily surpassing what is necessary for most hand held work have been arguably mastered it has now become obvious that sometimes more light is not what we need, but simply just enough to see by, without destroying our ability to see after turning off the light again in very dark settings. 

With the lowest settings available on a handful of my lights I'm still able to see when looking off to the side with my light still on when outside at night, which I often am.

Rant over and thanks for a great and observative post! :thumbsup:


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## Jarl (Dec 25, 2008)

007Runner said:


> Inside a house or tent a low level flood is wonderful. Most headlamps are perfect for reading or close up work. Any place where you have safety and familiarity.
> 
> Other then that, give me a powerful light with with good throw like a surefire tir optic. One night I saw a movie that ended at 11pm power failed. Ice storm hit big time. My point is basically a flood or low power flood is pretty much worthless if you are not in a familiar safe situation.
> It was comforting to shine all that throw around the corners before I took a turn.
> ...



High modes are great, but a flood can do something that simply stepping down the brightness of high mode won't achieve. Hence using 5mm's combined with a high power LED for both flood and throw


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## cue003 (Dec 25, 2008)

So what we truly need is a lunasol 27 with 3-5 LEDs from the sundrop and a killer P7, r2 or Cree for the center/main led. How possible is that?

That should be the ultimate right there except for maybe size.


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## 007Runner (Dec 25, 2008)

Jarl said:


> High modes are great, but a flood can do something that simply stepping down the brightness of high mode won't achieve.


 
If I am in a safe place, home, or inside a tent flood is great I will admit to that. Being outside in a ice storm, or a large commercial bldg and the power fails with no back up power flood is well not worthy. With throw you can sweep vast spaces close and far before you start walking. Flood is limited to small spaces, close up work or reading. 

If you are home I am sure you would just fire up the back up generator any ways before you try reading with a flashlight:laughing: People here are very well prepared. I am sure most of you have backup generators big enough to do your home and the neighbors as well.


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## jeffb (Dec 25, 2008)

Lunasol 20, 27 does both very nicely; the Surefire U2 with multiple levels works well with a nice balance of flood and brightness. Surefire L4 with a 2 stage switch is a veritable "wall of light". The Spy 005 and 007 have an excellent rotary switch and the levels can be adjusted; I use one for an extremely low, low and at it's highest it is very bright and useful.

I consider the U2, L4, Lunasols and even the Spy's to have more than adequate 'brightness" for outside walking applications and have used all for same, as I walk our Lab regularly in all conditions. I prefer spill for walking and usally the low level is fine and if I need brightness to warn an oncoming car or see farther, have always had more than enough. Just my experience.

jeffb


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## orbital (Dec 27, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> Thanks for starting this thread, perfect timing!
> 
> ...




+

I know this is not a 'How Low is your Low ' thread but,...

My LiteFlux LF5 (SSC) finally ran out an Energizer E2 Lithium AA.'
It lasted for 18.5 days of constant On {Lowest Low}


_*That's 444 hours on a single AA battery................*_


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## :)> (Dec 27, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> - IMHO a light that has both a floody low and a throwing high is more useful than a light with a uniform beam at low and high, and it is so more than you might think if you have never experienced it to date.
> - IMHO a dedicated flood light with more than one level is a must for any flashaholic doing close-up work on a regular basis. If this light has a High-CRI LED, even better.
> - the low level is more than just less light. It is a different light in many ways, but just as important than the high level. It has even merit on its own, without a throwy high level, see above.


 
Bernie, great post! I just finished reading it after starting it 3 days ago so it really wasn't too long; I know that you put the disclaimer at the top but it really wasn't necessary

I agree with you on your assessments and that is why I like the LS20 so much. When I first saw it and reviewed its specs, I was underwhelmed but after reading your posts and JS' posts, I gave it a try and have been in love with it ever since... primarily because of it's low, floody beam.

It is my belief that Don was a pioneer in building a light with a combination of a flood source and a standard source. I think that more and more lights will be produced with this combination because the usefulness of a floody low is so much better when compared to a dimmed reflector or optics based low.

One light that I think posesses exactly what you have noted (and more... i.e. color choice) is the new Inova. Mine throws further than my M60 Malkoff and has a flood capability that surpasses my Lunasol; it has 3 different output levels and the tint is warmer rendering colors better.


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## BSBG (Dec 27, 2008)

Bernie - great post. I agree that the low option is under-appreciated but ever so handy. I have a Milkyspit modded L1 and ordered the 'ultra low' option and I am glad I did.

Of course, now this thread has me thinking about high CRI flood lights...


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## Kestrel (Dec 27, 2008)

BSBG said:


> I have a Milkyspit modded L1 and ordered the 'ultra low' option and I am glad I did.


 
ooh ooh ooh What resistor was used on your Milky'd L1 tailcap, can you estimate how many lumens is the new low, and what is your new runtime?

Thinking of doing exactly this and wanted to know your thoughts,
Thanks,
K


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## JetskiMark (Dec 27, 2008)

Bernie, excellent photo essay.

You clearly illustrated why I like my LunaSol 20 so much.


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## Hooked on Fenix (Dec 28, 2008)

I agree that a low level is very useful. However, I hate PWM. If I'm reading a book or using a light as a nightlight in a tent, I don't want a strobe light to give me a headache. If I use a light with a low level, I prefer constant current powered and often regulated. My favorite lights with a good low level are my Rebel PT EOS headlight (5 lumens), Fenix P3D Q5 (5 lumens), Fenix EO1, and my old Gerber Infinity Ultra (3 lumens). All are pretty floody without a super bright hotspot. Dimmer than 3 lumens isn't that useful for me since if I need less light, I have moonlight. A P3D on low with a diffuser cap was bright enough to see 10 feet in each direction while being dim enough for stargazing during a meteor shower with night adapted eyes. You've got to love the long runtimes you get with low level l.e.d. flashlights nowadays.


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## Axion (Dec 28, 2008)

Thank you for making me want something I can't have. That sundrop sure is nice, but too pricey for my blood right now.


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## Kiessling (Dec 29, 2008)

I think the key with PWM dimming is the frequency. If it is soo low, we get the strobing effect like with the Photon or the Eternalight. On the SunDrop, which also uses PWM dimming (regulated nevertheless) I don't see any strobing.


And ... agreed on th eneed for throw. There are situations that require power and throw. No question. I never wanted to have low flood reign supreme in the lighting world  ... but I think it has an important place and I further think that it is underestimated here. 

bernie


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## mbw_151 (Dec 29, 2008)

The light I keep falling back to is a Photon Proton, the origional with the six 5mm LEDs. It's all flood and adjustable to a very low output but it isn't perfect. The color isn't good and the white LEDs don't ramp up from low only down from high. I wish LRI made this light with 7 white LEDs and the UI of the Photon Freedom.


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## kaichu dento (Dec 30, 2008)

The king of the low setting just arrived today! I finally have a light that goes low enough to satisfy my needs in my newly aquired Titan. Up until today my lowest outputs were to be found on my MJP'S, LF2 and 120P. By comparison to the Titan, with all lights on lowest setting, they look like searchlights to the Titan's miniscule speck of light, which is so low you can look directly at the emitter in pitch black without it appearing overly bright! Incredible light and anyone who wishes for both the ultimate in simplicity and low setting, you need to get one of the upcoming aluminum versions! You will be in love!  :twothumbs


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## Kiessling (Dec 30, 2008)

kaichu dento said:


> The king of the low setting just arrived today! I finally have a light that goes low enough to satisfy my needs in my newly aquired Titan. Up until today my lowest outputs were to be found on my MJP'S, LF2 and 120P. By comparison to the Titan, with all lights on lowest setting, they look like searchlights to the Titan's miniscule speck of light, which is so low you can look directly at the emitter in pitch black without it appearing overly bright! Incredible light and anyone who wishes for both the ultimate in simplicity and low setting, you need to get one of the upcoming aluminum versions! You will be in love!  :twothumbs



Well said


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## easilyled (Dec 30, 2008)

Having read this very well-written thread, I was wondering if anyone had considered the new 4-die P7 and MCE leds
which naturally produce very floody beams especially in more portable-sized reflectors.

IMO this could be exploited by creating a well-designed light with a large range of levels from very low to very high.

I have an Aleph-P7 LE with a Bi-Flupic interface that is used in conjunction with a McR27XR reflector to produce a wall-of-light beam
with only a slight increase in intensity at the center.

I can set the low to be very low and this provides an excellent light for reading and close-range tasks.

The high is in excess of 400 lumens and will still project out to medium-range or longer distances because of the power of the beam.

I feel that this can provide the best of both worlds, both inside and outside the house.

Maybe the much feted Surefire Invictus (if it ever materializes) will cater for our needs in this way.


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## kaichu dento (Dec 30, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Well said


 A compliment from one of my favorite posters! 


> Lowest available settings:
> 
> * NiteCore D10 (XR-E): > 2000
> * Night-Ops Gladius w/SSC P4: 1602
> ...


This is an excerpt from the post that originally got me on a quest to find a Titan. When I saw how high in output my previous low light leaders were (120P, D10) I knew I had to have a Draco and if possible at least check out the Titan. Now that I have one I realize it's much more compact than it appeared to be from looking at pictures and I can't imagine ever letting this one go.

After hurting my hand yesterday I haven't had the chance to try it out on the trail in the dark, but I'm definitely not letting the chance slip away tonight!


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## TITAN1833 (Dec 31, 2008)

I have a question does 0.06 lumens! count as low? if so you need to add the Spartanian 2 to your list.I use this low mode all the time pitch black I can still look into the led I believe it's a bit lower than the Novatac 120p low mode.


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## kaichu dento (Dec 31, 2008)

That would make it just a tad lower output than the 120P even and definitely one more choice for those of us who think of 2 lumens as medium. With a name like TITAN you really should check out a Titan when you get the chance!


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## HoopleHead (Dec 31, 2008)

Huge fan of low levels. Never neglected by me  Low lows + long runtimes is one of my top criteria in choosing lights! My Milky Hoople, Zebralights, NovaTac 120P and Ra Clicky 140-Cn all do the trick. Lots of options out there.


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## TITAN1833 (Dec 31, 2008)

kaichu dento said:


> That would make it just a tad lower output than the 120P even and definitely one more choice for those of us who think of 2 lumens as medium. With a name like TITAN you really should check out a Titan when you get the chance!


Well as I'm cheap grade Ti I've gone for the T1A - Titan Aluminum version,I do hope they keep the low we all grave for though?


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## Kiessling (Dec 31, 2008)

It is not only about flux, but also about beam profile. For example, both the H30 and the SunDrop have a considerably higher flux than most of the others, yet they have lower lux numbers due to the different and - in thsi application - more useful beam profile.

I am glad there are a lot of lights out there that can play the low-level game. There's no way I know them all though. Haven't even heard of a Spartanian :green:

bernie


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## RedLED (Jan 1, 2009)

I agree. And, my two favorite lights are the SF M6, that I rule the Hood with at night, and my SF Titan for low level use.

Love them dim...lights and girls.

Best,

RL


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## SureAddicted (Jan 1, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> So ... anyone who wants to take my LunaSol20 or my SunDrop from me ... you're welcome to try :devil:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## sims2k (Jan 1, 2009)

Thanks Bernie for this post. 90 percent of my light usage everyday is low light and all about flood. Working within the confines of electronics and machines one does not need a full blast thrower but a decent low with flood.


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## Kiessling (Jan 1, 2009)

SureAddicted said:


> Uh oh, I like a dare lol




You know only Ripley can do this, do you? 
Except for Chuck Norris, of course. He can do anything he wants. 


The SunDrop, meaning the Nichia 083 High CRI, is better than incan. It is not as reddish, but very natural instead. More like daylight than incan and LED are. A very nice experience indeed. 

bernie


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## TITAN1833 (Jan 1, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> It is not only about flux, but also about beam profile. For example, both the H30 and the SunDrop have a considerably higher flux than most of the others, yet they have lower lux numbers due to the different and - in thsi application - more useful beam profile.
> 
> I am glad there are a lot of lights out there that can play the low-level game. There's no way I know them all though. Haven't even heard of a Spartanian :green:
> 
> bernie


here ya go





the best thing about it is it's UI one mode each side,both can be changed independently from one another,so you could have max left turn ultra low right turn,but you can also ramp them up or down as you wish so easy I love it :twothumbs


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## scout24 (Aug 17, 2009)

I just felt this thread was too cool to let linger... Can anyone tell me if the newer Titan T1A has a comparable low level to the original? Not just on paper, but preferably someone who has both doing a side by side comparison? I love the low on the new one, but would like to know if I am missing something...  Thanks in advance!


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## Kiessling (Aug 18, 2009)

Both variants of the TITAN do offer a similar low in terms of brightness, but they do differ in beam shape with the T1A being more floody, at least mine is.
bernie


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## scout24 (Aug 18, 2009)

Thanks for the answer! I am loving the T1A, and unless my eyes are going on me, no blue to speak of... It has become my around the house in the morning light while getting ready for work.


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## Gatsby (Aug 18, 2009)

An interesting and thought provoking thread. I have always been a fan of a low low level, one of the reasons I continue to be a fan of the Arc4/HDS/Novatac/Ra heritage lights, and one reason I thought the original Liteflux twisty models (LF2/3/4/5) were underrated as EDC candidates. And I admit that I generally prefer for EDC and utility purposes a beam that leans more toward flood than to throw (again, one benefit of the Novatac and Liteflux lights - particularly the SS4 versions). 

But this post really takes it to another level. The only pure flood light I've experienced is the CR2 Ion and if you've grown accustomed to more conventional beam profiles, even relatively floodier ones, it takes some getting used to ... I continue to waiver just a bit with the Ion as the pure flood beams, while useful, were to me at least a bit too mission specific. What this post has challenged, in terms of my own perceptions, is that perhaps they aren't as mission specific as I'd originally thought. 

I've been pondering a bit the ideal light setup - I do think that with the flexibility we have with LEDs that we could all get by with fewer lights than we do and really meet all our needs (heck I lived for years with 3 lights, a Photon II on my key ring, an HDS B42XRGT and a Streamlight Strion - those three really did meet close to 100% of my needs). The decision matrix is dense, however, with variables. Size, beam profile, battery choice and flexibility, UI, reliability, redundancy, and a lot of others not the least of which is cost. 

I have to admit the high CRI emitters didn't do much for me or didn't capture my imagination, but seeing some of these beam shots makes me really wonder if it is possible to mod a CR2 Ion with one of these emitters! That could make a real killer light and a viable "Sundrop Lite" for those of us who admire Don's lights but find them a bit out of our price range... :thinking:


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## Beacon of Light (Aug 18, 2009)

This thread moved me to tears, it made me laugh, cry, and showed me the meaning of life. Seriously this should be thread of the year. And yes I for one would like a dedicated low level light. I mentioned in the Quark thread I would love to have a .02 (Dark Side of the moon Mode / .2 (Moon mode) / 3.5 (Low Mode) and that is it. A simple 3 level Low to ultra low light. The .02 lumen (Dark Side of the Moon Mode) would last 300 days on a single AA battery, talk about efficiency.


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## pseudoblue (Aug 18, 2009)

Awesome!! Your pictures are very good and the subjects or objects you chose to illuminate on is very practical. Excellent comparison and write-up. I see many love your style.


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## Kiessling (Aug 24, 2009)

Thanx again guys


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## [email protected] (Aug 24, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> You know only Ripley can do this, do you?
> Except for Chuck Norris, of course. He can do anything he wants.
> 
> 
> ...



A Sundrop 3S with the Nichia 183.


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## Kiessling (Aug 24, 2009)

What's the 183?


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## scout24 (Aug 24, 2009)

If I am not mistaken, the 183 is a much higher output led from Nichia with similar CRI to the beloved 083...


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## kaichu dento (Aug 24, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> A Sundrop 3S with the Nichia 183.





scout24 said:


> If I am not mistaken, the 183 is a much higher output led from Nichia with similar CRI to the beloved 083...


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## recDNA (Aug 24, 2009)

I never use low mode on any of my flashlights. If I could program the lights I would include High, Turbo, and strobe.


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## Beacon of Light (Aug 24, 2009)

recDNA said:


> I never use low mode on any of my flashlights. If I could program the lights I would include High, Turbo, and strobe.



Is this what is defined as a thread crap?


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## LED_Thrift (Aug 25, 2009)

Great Post! I missed it originally, glad it was revived. 
Beacon of Light: the Pal light has a Dark Side of the Moon mode that runs over a year on one 9v battery. I find it is all I need to navigate in familiar rooms at night.


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## Sharpy_swe (Aug 25, 2009)

Great thread :twothumbs

Now I really need to get at least one Zebralight.


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## NE450No2 (Aug 25, 2009)

I find that I use low as much, maybe more than I use HIGH.

I guess that is why I like my SF A2 Aviator best of any flashlight I have ever used as a primary all rounder, never be anywhere without it. 

While I have a Green/Yellow to use when navagating and reading a map, for general use I refer the white LED's.

I use it every day.


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## McGizmo (Aug 25, 2009)

recDNA said:


> I never use low mode on any of my flashlights. If I could program the lights I would include High, Turbo, and strobe.



I hear you. I am trying to figure out how to get a good strobe mode for all my fixed lighting in the house and I think it would be a cool option for my headlights too! :nana:


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## Woods Walker (Aug 25, 2009)

McGizmo said:


> I hear you. I am trying to figure out how to get a good strobe mode for all my fixed lighting in the house and I think it would be a cool option for my headlights too! :nana:


 

I think this is called disco but regrettably is dead. Anyways I like a good low on a headlamp for in camp. Kinda hard to eat with a 100 lumens bouncing back into my eyes from my Ti bowl. Low is great for a short trip to the privy if at an AT lean-to or just getting out my keys for the door etc at home.


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## NE450No2 (Aug 26, 2009)

Woods Walker

While I have bigger brighter headlights, my favorite I use and carry always when in the field is the Ptezl Tac Tikka if I remember the name of it correctly.

It has a low, medum, high, and strobe, as well as a flip up red lens.


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## Woods Walker (Aug 26, 2009)

NE450No2 said:


> Woods Walker
> 
> While I have bigger brighter headlights, my favorite I use and carry always when in the field is the Ptezl Tac Tikka if I remember the name of it correctly.
> 
> It has a low, medum, high, and strobe, as well as a flip up red lens.


 
I have the Tikka plus (guess it is the same as the Tac) and like it too. But prefer the Rebel EOS as it has a 5ish lumen low that works great in camp and from my eyes lower than my Tikka plus. High is brighter too and will use the med/high mode on the trail. My Zebra light H501,H501W and H50 has an even lower low 2-3 lumens and is a near perfect camp light.


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## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> You know only Ripley can do this, do you?
> Except for Chuck Norris, of course. He can do anything he wants.


 
Don't discount Jack Bauer... he's already displayed a penchant for highend quality flashlights! 








FWIW I use my 2 Lumen low (Jet-III M) infrequently but really enjoy it's low output however I do admit I could get by with even less luminosity (hence my subscription to angelofwar's battery vampire thread) :thumbsup:


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## scout24 (Apr 2, 2010)

Bump to a great thread, and I would like to add that Photonfanatic's Tasklight Two (which is still for sale as of this writing.) has an absolutely beautiful Low Low in the Mini Flupic programming, not much brighter than my Titans... Nice and floody, and well worth considering. Beautiful light and well worth the asking price...


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## JNewell (Apr 2, 2010)

Great thread. Does anyone have any data on the Gladius with the SSC/P4 transplant on lowest?


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## don.gwapo (Apr 2, 2010)

Since I got the light, i'm using the lowest level on my L2M every night with the LT-1 lantern in it. It gives pretty decent light on my room even on the lowest mode which enough for me while checking cpf every night.


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## JNewell (Apr 2, 2010)

My current loooooooooow experiments for indoor night navigation are:


A2-HA-YG with the cap twisted out so you can't punch through to the incan
K2MS-BK set to YG (much dimmer than the larger LEDs in the A2)
Gladius SSC P4 set all the way down (which is really, really dim, IMO)
The comments about degree of flood being important is really true in practical use, but hard to show with a camera. IMO the SureFire TIR optics are a disadvantage in this role. I just bought a NOS L2, even though in almost every respect the LX2 is a "better" light, because I wanted a relatively even reflector beam rather than the tight TIR beam.


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## ninemm (Jul 26, 2010)

What an excellent thread. I think this deserves a bump! I love my low level flood lights (T1A and U2A w/diffuser). Thinking of picking up a M60WLF for my 6P as well. Thanks for compiling such awesome beam shots Bernie! :thumbsup:


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## kaichu dento (Jul 27, 2010)

I never found any interest in the Titan until I found out how low it could go, and it used to rule as my lowest possible output light. 

Now I have a few other lights with very low levels and they are both my MillerMods Arcs (AA & AAA) and an 007.

The lowest output available from any of them is the 007, which can actually be set so low as to be about equal to a single trit. My MillerMods Arc-AAA can actually be set much lower than even the Titan is capable of, but for flood with no hotspot and beautiful moonlight-like flood that spreads all about, my absolute favorite low level light is the MillerMods Arc-AA. This particular light has the reflector painted with GID paint, which makes it nothing more than a Mule with three levels.


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## ninemm (Jul 27, 2010)

My wallet is very afraid of my desire for a 007. :devil:


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## kaichu dento (Jul 27, 2010)

When are you getting one? :devil:


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## ninemm (Jul 27, 2010)

kaichu dento said:


> When are you getting one? :devil:



Oh man. I don't know. So expensive. Maybe a year or so from now? :sigh: 

On a low level note: Just scored an Oilslick Mule. Going to see about getting an LE built with a nice 3 level including a very low low plus glow powder/trits for even more low light emitting goodness.


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## kaichu dento (Jul 27, 2010)

Just watching the type of lights you've been getting and your slow roller coaster climb, I'm sure that at some point you'll reach the top and come down full speed into ownership of a couple of the lights that you're still holding off on. You're really going to like the 007, but on a more realistic note for the time being, I suggest you get a mule type setup coupled with a very low level for a type of low level bliss that is available from no other.


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## ShayM (Jul 27, 2010)

I've been using 2xAA incandescent Maglites for years and want to switch to a 1xAAA LED light on my keychain. No more Maglites for me. People in this thread have made excellent points. However, I think you are probably mostly talking about larger models. There's plenty of reviews and comparisons of 1xAAA flashlights, but as the thread says, low level is neglected. What should I be looking for?


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## Kestrel (Jul 27, 2010)

Before my T1A, my lowest was a 3P clone w/ a 5mm LED direct-driven from 1xCR123 for maybe 2-3 lumens. After reading how incredibly low the T1A could go, I was pretty surprised to find how usable it actually was, it still wasn't too low for real nighttime use indoors. :thumbsup:


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## saabgoblin (Jul 27, 2010)

I believe that low level lights get very little recognition due to what I'll call the Icarus effect and even some mid and yesterdays high level lights suffer from this as well. Once you have that lumen monster, you are apt to miss the power, kinda sounds like Darth Vader here, and therefore diminish the value of your previously bright 60-80 lumen flashlight that was a breakthrough just a few years ago. Yes, sometimes brighter is better or needed and that is all very situational depending on light pollution, beam characteristics, and tint, but low levels account for approximately 70%+/- of my usage. 

Low lumen levels just seem to get associated with the little chores and seemingly unimportant tasks while higher output creates a thrill and is therefore more alluring. 


My favorite contenders;
Surefire L1 first or second generation, low low first, with immediate access to high:thumbsup:
HDS EDC Basic42
Lunasol 20, another great low first with that piston drive:thumbsup: 
Peak Matterhorn 3 LED
Surefire E1B 

I am sure that there are many others and I am somewhat ashamed as a Flashaholic that I don't yet have an ARC in my collection.:candle:

Long live the low, low, level lumen output, you don't have to necessarily come to the "Dark Side", but you can appreciate just how little light you actually need to shine a light.


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## saabgoblin (Jul 27, 2010)

ShayM said:


> I've been using 2xAA incandescent Maglites for years and want to switch to a 1xAAA LED light on my keychain. No more Maglites for me. People in this thread have made excellent points. However, I think you are probably mostly talking about larger models. There's plenty of reviews and comparisons of 1xAAA flashlights, but as the thread says, low level is neglected. What should I be looking for?


Hello ShayM and welcome, try doing a search on key chain lights and a great place to start are the sticky's at the top of the General Flashlight Forum-Threads Of Interest and the Flashlight Checklist.


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## red02 (Jul 27, 2010)

Don't know if being regulated is needed to make this list, but the Photon Freedom get the lowest low I've ever seen. Even my 0.2lm Quark seems bright after using one.


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## Burgess (Jul 27, 2010)

. . . . or the L.R.I. Photon Proton Pro.


Very LOW, indeed !


How LOW can you GO ? ? ?


(said in my Island voice, mon')


_


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## ShayM (Jul 28, 2010)

saabgoblin said:


> Hello ShayM and welcome, try doing a search on key chain lights and a great place to start are the sticky's at the top of the General Flashlight Forum-Threads Of Interest and the Flashlight Checklist.



Thanks. I did end up ordering a silver coloured ITP EOS AAA Upgrade Edition as it seems to be well liked, well made, inexpensive, and for the low power mode. I was going to get the Maratac version instead because you can stand it up, but I'm Canadian, and in all honesty, I never really did that with my Maglites anyway.


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## Flying Turtle (Jul 28, 2010)

The Photon Rex is another with a very good low. And, the slick charging setup just adds to the fun.

Geoff


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## red02 (Jul 28, 2010)

Photon Fusion gets a nice low as well.


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## Beacon of Light (Jul 28, 2010)

Just curious how much NeoSeikan's Spartanian II was? I read the other thread and there was never a price listed, and his site doesn't show prices either.


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## Darell (Jul 28, 2010)

Long-live the McLux! (side note: I ended up keeping just two of the original McLuxes from our build days. Oops... three. Standard nickle, black and a chrome. And you know what - I still use them for all kinds of things in the house - with those pathetic low-dome, low-output (but utter fantastic output for the day) emitters. A perfect amount of light with an awesome flood for peeking behind the stereo cabinet, or fixing something under the sink. The other lights in my collection typically offer too much light, or to bright a hot-spot.)

Now... how did that zebralight escape my wallet???


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## KDOG3 (Jul 28, 2010)

I love super-low modes on lights. I just am getting back into the game by ordering a Ra Clicky 170T. It has a .07 low capability. But I'm sure the .28 preset will be low enough. Can't wait to get it. Hopefully by Saturday....


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## kaichu dento (Jul 28, 2010)

KDOG3 said:


> I love super-low modes on lights. I just am getting back into the game by ordering a Ra Clicky 170T. It has a .07 low capability. But I'm sure the .28 preset will be low enough. Can't wait to get it. Hopefully by Saturday....


That was my hope too, but the .07 is about what I'd like for my 2nd to lowest level. No mistake, you're going to like it, but the lights that really go low are my Titan, 007 and MillerMods Arc-AA - they'll go low enough to make even BeaconofLight happy. Me too! 

The best readily available super-low is the T1A, with it's softer hotspot to spill gradation and it makes the low on the Clicky look like a medium setting. The 007 is a lot harder won, and with it's beam pattern, not quite as good as the Titan/T1A at really low levels, but it can go so low that it's virtually useless. This means that you actually get to choose the level, because it's impossible for you to want it lower. Every other light other than the Spy lineup is more likely to have a segment of the super low level fans who will find it to be higher than they'd like, even the Titan/T1A.

As soon as you get a chance, get ahold of a neutral P4 or XP-G modded T1A.


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## TooManyGizmos (Jun 21, 2011)

~

Uhmmm ........ BUMP

~


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## easilyled (Jun 21, 2011)

The Sunwayman V10R Ti has an incredibly low, low level, not much brighter than a tritium vial.
I have 3 of them and they are all this low.


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## SCEMan (Jun 21, 2011)

My Nitecore IFE2 is also ridiculously low but also surprisingly useful.


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## Beacon of Light (Jun 21, 2011)

I forgot to mention the Safelight Survival model has "Glow Mode" which is pretty low. Also love the lows I have set on all my Novatacs and the newest member of my low low arsenal is the Jetbeam RRT-0. I have a couple of Peak lights with the QTC material to make the light a variable output supposedly with super low lows and super long runtimes in the mail I should receive tomorrow from UPS.


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## red02 (Jun 21, 2011)

I've never been clear on this: Is the Photon Pro regulated?


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## Napalm (Jun 21, 2011)

Guys, how about you get a Maglite Solitaire. Dim, warm, 100 CRI. The perfect light, eh?

Nap. :tired:


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## kaichu dento (Jun 22, 2011)

Napalm said:


> Guys, how about you get a Maglite Solitaire. Dim, warm, 100 CRI. The perfect light, eh?
> 
> Nap. :tired:


This pairs up nicely with my signature line.


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## scout24 (Mar 6, 2012)

Much needed, well deserved bump for an excellent thread...  One of my favorites here.


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## acr dude (Mar 6, 2012)

Im thinking it'd be nice to have a low output, small light but one thats not cheesy and unreliable. Hopefuly as small as possible. Fenix maybe? Thoughts? Help out a noob lol.


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## Kestrel (Mar 7, 2012)

My trusty SureFire T1A still does duty at my bedside, but with the new Mako Flood shipping out this week there soon might be ~85 new converts to the 'dim side'.


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## kaichu dento (Mar 9, 2012)

Kestrel said:


> My trusty SureFire T1A still does duty at my bedside, but with the new Mako Flood shipping out this week there soon might be ~85 new converts to the 'dim side'.


I've still got my Titan laying on the floor where I can reach it anytime I need a light that always comes on at the lowest level and is way more than enough when I wake up in the middle of the night. 

Really like the tweak to the switch that the T1A got with the detent at the off position.


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## TEEJ (Mar 9, 2012)

The Zebralight SC600W is my favorite small flood right now, and I am a strong believer in low level patterns needing to be flood for most applications, as its rare to need to see something far away, but dimly.....but occasionally, if using low for anti-bump-type navigation, a flood of soft light is the best way to see, as opposed to a small circle that you have to sweep about to stitch together what's out there, etc.


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## reppans (Mar 9, 2012)

Huge low level fan here - I shop for lights based on how dim they can get. I found the best performance enhancement (perceived brightness & runtime) for a light is simply letting your own night vision work.

My typical "L/M/H" is 0.2/4/19 lm with 80%+ between L&M. I think I end up changing my 1xAA batt. somewhere between 50-100hr of use and usually with plenty of batt. capacity left. Moonlight modes are like having an A/C plug - you can just leave them on continuously without any concern on battery usage. 

I'm personally a fan of some throw at the low levels though.... it allows me to use the hotspot to see things further away that I would otherwise have to click up to a higher mode on a pure flood light. I read in bed every night before going to sleep on moonlight - it's only thing that doesn't disturb the Mrs. No problem with a throwy beam, all you have to do is angle the light to the page to elongate the hotspot. 

Unfortunately, the current mega-lumens arms race is not looking too good for the low lumen enthusiast. But on the other hand, I think even Fenix has finally started using a single-digit low mode (still too bright for me) on some of it's lights :laughing:.


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## kaichu dento (Mar 9, 2012)

Teej and Reppans, great posts!


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## tbenedict (Mar 9, 2012)

Personally, I wouldn't want any more flood than a XPG Q-mini with an uber low. To me, it would get too washed out and have too much peripheral distraction. 

Can you tell I use them to put kids to bed??


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## wquiles (Mar 9, 2012)

In my projects I typically build custom lights, that are very bright, but personally, I am a huge fan of the low level. I have a McGizmo mule with a two level driver, and the low is very low - about perfect, but even better is that I can use a CR123 cell in there that is completely depleted (per my ZTS Pulse Load Batter Tester, and I "still" get enough juice left to drive the low level for a LONG time.

Recently I also have been using a two-level McGizmo tailcap in a 1x CR123 body with a low power, warm LED P60 Malkoff drop-in, and just like with the McGizmo, the driver Gene selected has the uncanny ability to function with cells that are completely depleted as well. I can't tell you how much pleasure I get from using those "used" CR123 cells for several months when I get the kids to bed.

In fact I feel the low level is useful that on my MagnetoDrive I added the "slow" mode so that I can have steps of 1/255 (from 0 to 100% in 0.39% steps) so have very fine control of the low levels 

LONG LIVE THE LOW LEVEL!

Will


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## shane45_1911 (Mar 9, 2012)

reppans said:


> Huge low level fan here - I shop for lights based on how dim they can get.



Exactly.

I don't think I would have ever bought an HDS light if it weren't for that 0.07 lm goodness.

Same with the ZL SC600W. 

I love moonlight modes.


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## nbp (Mar 10, 2012)

Glad I finally got around to reading this whole thread. It's very good, and right up my alley. 

I like low levels, I'm not all about lumens, and I really like flood. oo:

I use the T1A as my bedside light. It gets used a lot just tooling around the house at night and for various indoor tasks where only a bit of light is necessary. I love the UI and compact size, and it runs for ever even on my "depleted" cells. 

I have some other very low level lights like Clickies and Twisties, but I don't find that I use the lows on those very much. Most low level lighting is late at night in the house, and typically I use the T1A for that. 

But I definitely like flood, and even on 'throwers', I like generous spill. I only own a couple lights over 200 lumens, which for me is sufficient in most all situations. 

I EDC two McGizmos, a Haiku XP-G, and Ti Mule XM-L. I love the Mules soft, artifact free total flood beam. For me, it gets quite a bit of use as I work indoors and most of my applications are within close range. The XM-L is floodier to begin with, and coupled with the Mule platform, you get a decent high mode output and a lots of flood. For more distance, the Haiku has plenty of reach, but still a good amount of spill so that I don't feel like I am looking through a tunnel. I have another Mule with a custom LE with a neutral XP-G and GDuP board from the Shoppe, which has a lower low and a higher high. That light puts out a really lovely soft flood that is very easy on the eyes, even if you are somewhat dark adapted and has decent color rendition with its tint. It's an excellent light for a campsite for example. I cannot emphasize enough the functionality of the Mule for most EDC needs. I think people would be surprised at how functional a light can be even if it only illuminates maybe 10 yards or so--but it does this in a 180 degree pattern, completely from side to side. Amazing light, and one of the coolest looking too. Look down the barrel of a Ti Mule from Don and tell me that isn't an awesome light; I love the quasi-industrial look to the bare board/emitter with the sweet Ti bezel around it. :rock: 

Like the T1A, I have other lights that lack a defined hotspot that I enjoy immensely, the Ion and the BitZ are great examples of this. The Ion is less floody than say, a Mule, but it is very smooth, very few artifacts, and sufficiently bright for most EDC tasks. The BitZ has a slightly brighter center to the beam, but again is very smooth and plenty floody. Not a lot of reach, but for normal carry purposes, I don't need much reach. It also sports one of my favorite emitters ever, the SSC P4, which in and of itself was always a very good emitter IMO, with typically decent tint (especially in the BitZ) and very smooth beam. The very small size of the Muyshondt lights and the BitZ make them my top choices when I am in dressy clothes and McGizmos or HDS lights are just not an option. 

I should have my Mako Flood Saturday or Monday, and I am very eager to see how it stacks up. I am hoping to carry it as a tiny low level accompaniment/backup to my McGs or other Muyshondt EDC lights. I will have to post some thoughts when I get it.


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## hank (Mar 11, 2012)

For shopping planning -- which low-level lights are safe to use with Energizer lithium primary cells?
I prefer those in cached emergency lights, but know some, especially AAA, lights won't tolerate over 1.5v.


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## lumen aeternum (Nov 17, 2014)

Love to see an update on available lights. Reminds me to see if I can figure out how to program my Zebralight to FIND the lowest setting, then make it the turn-on mode... sub settings with some of them having sub-sub settings... geez...


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## kaichu dento (Nov 18, 2014)

lumen aeternum said:


> Love to see an update on available lights. Reminds me to see if I can figure out how to program my Zebralight to FIND the lowest setting, then make it the turn-on mode... sub settings with some of them having sub-sub settings... geez...


Go to your mode then double click to go through the 2 (or 3) settings, choosing the lowest one. Then just make sure you hold the button down for a second when turning the light on and you'll have your lowest mode for startup.

My lowest level lights are now my TC-R1 and V10R Ti, and they'll both go so low as to be completely unusable, which is perfect because they allow me to be the one picking the lowest level, instead of the maker.


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## wjv (Nov 19, 2014)

The Spark SG5 - CREE XM-L2 T6 is a great FLOODY light. VERY floody.
PLUS:
- You can remove the lens unit with the grey non-reflector and make it even more floody
- You can remove the lens unit with the grey non-reflector and attach the mirrored reflector to get a tighter beam
- You can attach it to its headband and use it as a headlamp

Plus good run times and a good selection of lumen levels (1, 8, 40, 110, 280 lumens)

Had a D25A as my EDC. Now it's the Spark SG5.


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## unattended (Nov 21, 2014)

kaichu dento said:


> My lowest level lights are now my TC-R1 and V10R Ti, and they'll both go so low as to be completely unusable, which is perfect because they allow me to be the one picking the lowest level, instead of the maker.



+ 1 for that, i find most low lows too bright and the tc-r1 just perfect.
is there any lamp available with that kind of low, a twisty interface and a FLOODY beam ?


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