# MR-X with X3T. Hotlips with Magic Resistor TK. #1



## hotbeam (Jul 20, 2003)

I've been thinking of getting a "magic resistor" constant current circuit done for a 9V 5-watter LS Hotlips-D package. Basically the circuit will allow the uninitiated to either put in either Alkalines, Lithiums or NiMhs and it will regulate the current to any set current, eg. 750mA, 1000mA, 1500mA, 2000mA or even up to 3A!! Adjustment is done via a 2mm screw driver and a multimeter is required. The circuit will automatically adjust the resistance to get the desired current, like a *magic resistor*.

When the battery voltage drops below the LED voltage, it will basically go to a a direct driven mode. At no time will the current exceed the preset current rating above. This way, there is no chance of blowing any LSs and the brightness will be constant until the battery starts to expires.

Just gazing interest to see if any progress (short run) should be made on this? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif



======== T H E O F F E R S (Moved from my Aug 4 post. *Updated 30 Aug*) ========

*MR-X with X3T binned 5 watt Luxeon* (previously MR Hotlips TK)
There will be a small number of MR-X turnkey units for sale. These will indeed be very special lights. It will come in a 6AA configuration in an Ontario Aluminium D-sized body with a Direct Drive Indicator LED. It will be finished off with a UCL lens and a special X3T binned Luxeon. Pricing: $213 shipped and insured. You will need your own NiMh batteries (or Li-ion, L91, Alk).













*MR Hotlips*
MR Hotlips will be supplied will be supplied with the complete Magic Resistor circuit embedded in the Hotlips and *siliconed* in place. The Direct Drive Indicator LED Indicator will be soldered in for convenience and emitter wires ready for immediate installation. Then drop it into your OAD flashlight body, connect the power and you are ready to go. You can of course adjust your desired current setting using a 2mm flathead screwdriver. Price: $58+$5 (5 day delivery). A photo of this setup can be seen below (about the ~40th post).


*(MR)*
(MR) is just the bare Magic Resistor circuit with DDI LED. This is essentially the circuit before it is fitted into the Hotlips. Price: $38+$5 (5 day delivery).

*The delivery of MR Hotlips and MR will be done after all TK orders have been fulfilled.*

================================================


Again, I would like to thank Burnt_retina for his invaluable input, technical advice and putting up with my countless questions. Thanks Burnt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


*Graph of the Magic Resistor set to 1.5A. 3x123s in Direct Drive*


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## Rothrandir (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

you know what i think...*sounds great!* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## MR Bulk (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Yes I think they have something like that inside those EverLeds, able to run up to like -- 9V, was it?


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## Phaserburn (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Make me first on the list!!


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## hotbeam (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Correct Mr B. I believe they are 1-watters though? Also, it is non configurable in the amount overdrive or underdrive you want /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


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## jcciv (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

sounds good. any idea as to the price? I would be interested in 1, anyway.


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## hotbeam (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Phaserburn and Johnc... sounds like the interest is low. Looks like generally people want brightness at the expense of LED longetivity. Don't know about pricing yet. It will depend ~ on the final number. Will take stock after a few days.


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## shiftd (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Hotbeam, i would be interested in one or two. But that depends on the price, though.
Can this accept 7.2V and go direct drive?


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## hotbeam (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Shiftd, price /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif for the moment. Can't see it being too $$$. 

When the batteries are fresh, this circuit *automatically adjust the resistance to give you your desired mA output*... ie *magic resistor* concept. When the battery voltage drops below that of the LS, it will then be direct driving, but current will not exceed the set current.

Using a V2T for your 6 NiMh will give you longer run time than using a U3U. But if you use Li's, the runtime is prolonged even more.


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## Rothrandir (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

how big is it and when can i have a prototype? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

any chance you can design it to step-up for either a 1 or a 5watter? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## hotbeam (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Rev I prototype done. Size ~ 25mm x 14mm. Working on heatsinking part at the moment. I am the tester here. burnt_retina is the brain.


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## yclo (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Interesting...


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## MR Bulk (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Ahh, you are right Howie, did not see the 5W part. This will be a very interesting project...


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## shiftd (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

is it round shaped, Howard? Is it more like the powerpuck, but with smaller size and will only fit for the D sized light?


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## MR Bulk (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

In fact, if you are thinking about making a drop-in unit with Hotlips as the casing, it will be the cat's meow for D-sized lights...kinda like an EverLed on steroids!


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## hotbeam (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

shiftd: the prototype is rectangular. i'll need to speak to burnt about changing the board make-up.
**EDIT: Also depends on numbers required.


mr b: that is one way to look at it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif overkill heatsink for the FET in the circuit.


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## Rothrandir (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

eagerly awaiting! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## shankus (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

hotbeam, I'm confused...


[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
When the battery voltage drops below the LED voltage, it will basically go to a a direct driven mode...and the brightness will be constant until the battery expires.


[/ QUOTE ]
So, it is current regulated until battery voltage drops below the luxeon forward voltage.
After that point, then it is direct driven, so, it _will_ become dimmer until the cells expire, right?





[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
When the battery voltage drops below that of the LS, it will then be direct driving, but current will now exceed the set current.


[/ QUOTE ]
Did you mean to say the current will _not_ exceed the set current?


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## hotbeam (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Sorry if my explanations were not as clear as they could've been, yes to both your statements.


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## shiftd (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

can we specify the current ourselves? like between 750 to 1300? that would be real cool /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## hotbeam (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

yep /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, the mini flat head screwdriver is your friend /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## shiftd (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

GREAT!
now, if only you can make it as small as a micropuck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## hotbeam (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

This circuit is only useful for setups with supplied voltage >> LED voltage. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## shiftd (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

will it tolerate open and short circuit? reverse voltage? over voltage? ;P


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## IsaacHayes (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

This has peaked my interest. This will give you longer run time if you used say 8 AA NiMH batteries vs 6 for a 5w right? as you will regulate the current and yet have more voltage/current with the extra batteries right? The batt would be in series. This would be keen with my 2D mag to put in 8 AA's in a custom batt pak.

est price? BTW, what's the current price on the hot lips heatsink?


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## hotbeam (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thanks for the renewed interest. Answers to questions in no particular order:

*Open circuit:* No problems at the output end.

*Short circuit:* It can only tolerate a very quick short curcuit. Thermal issues need to be addressed. 

*Reverse voltage:* A no-no. Can be allowed for but not sure whether it is worth the extra circuitry. *** Edit: Not tolerated

*Voltage:* Acceptable range between 5v and 20v.

*8 NiMh:* You won't get a longer runtime (very marginal at best) with 8 NiMh. However, if you were to parallel 2 x 6 NiMh, that is a different story. 

*Hotlips:* Details here. 

Note: This curcuit will use top shelf components. Eg. The on-resistance for the FET is 0.0028R (!!) and sense resistor is 0.015R (!!). When the battery voltage is ~ the LED voltage, it is in-effect *direct driving* !!!

At this stage, this will definately be a *"very short run" (half a dozen)* project, unless there is SIGNIFICANT interest. Also I am looking at supplying the "hotlips with magic resistors" in a complete light as opposed to just releasing the kits... just because of the time consuming/difficult 'mod-support' issue. Questions? Email/PM me.

PS. Still working on fit and thermal issues at the moment. **EDIT: In the evenings /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif Why am I doing this? Hmmm...


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## Alan Hsu (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Sounds great! I can envision a drop-in mod as powerful as SNII...


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## bucken (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

May be interested... Depends on final size and $$.


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## SHINER (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Count me in!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Shiner
aka>CHRIS


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## StanH (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Sounds interesting! More details please!


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## shiftd (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

YUp, just like issac said, this thing has peaked my interest. But i still would like to see the price quote, though. Just a range will do. If it is somewhere around $20, I think i can take some from my saving acc. If it is around $40, hmm, kind of difficult, but i will try to get that out too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## hotbeam (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

It looks like there are about ~5 takers (1 for me!!) here so it is the short run we will be progressing on. Got to do more tests in the next few days and will let everyone know. Will need to speak with Burnt_retina about thermal and mounting issues, etc.. before going much further.


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## Christoph (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

I'll be in for one please
Chris


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## LEDmodMan (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Any idea of what kind of efficiency it'll have while in buck mode? Will you put the circuit design up on CPF once you've sold your small run of these? I've spent my wad here for awhile, so I can't afford this right now. I might be able to build my own with some parts on hand if they're the ones I'm guessing they are. Just curious...


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## lildave (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

yea sound like it might be fun to try. 1 or 2 depending on the price.


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## hotbeam (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Update:
We did some runtimes last night on the Magic Resistor prototype. The result was very promising. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Definately much more than 1 hour of *constant* brightness/current at 1A. Further tests will be done tonight at different current draws.


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## NightStorm (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Waiting with _baited breath_ (I've got to cut down on the sushi). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Dan


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## milkyspit (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hi hotbeam! You can tentatively count me in, though the final price of your creation will make the final decision for me. I love my 5W Blaster VI and Space Needle II's, and if I could get a light similar in size and brightness, but with the added benefit of constant current, it would be a tremendous win. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif I'm waiting anxiously for word on the next step in this project... 

Also, any chance of slipping a small red out-of-regulation indicator LED into the head, similar to the Opalec NewBeam? It's not critical, of course, but would be a nice touch. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


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## hotbeam (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milkyspit... will be considering the out-of-regulation indicator /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Hopefully it won't add too much size to the circuit.


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## hotbeam (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Update:
More runtimes being conducted and plotted. More 2000mA NiMh, Alkalines and Lithiums used. Very impressed with the Lithiums /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif. Out of regulation LED indicator 95% chance of being included.


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## milkyspit (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
Update:
More runtimes being conducted and plotted. More 2000mA NiMh, Alkalines and Lithiums used. Very impressed with the Lithiums /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif. Out of regulation LED indicator 95% chance of being included. 

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all great news, and the out-of-regulation LED will be wonderful. Yippee! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## LEDmodMan (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDmodMan said:*
Any idea of what kind of efficiency it'll have while in buck mode? Will you put the circuit design up on CPF once you've sold your small run of these? 

[/ QUOTE ] 

I think these questions may have been overlooked.


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## hotbeam (Jul 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

LEDmodMan
It's not a buck converter. A buck converter will only be more efficient at currents up to... say 1.1/1.2 or so amps. As the circuit we have is intended to overdrive a LS at ~1.5A then you won't gain anything worthwhile from a buck circuit. As posted earlier, this circuit is burnt_retina's design so I'll have to let him answer your question. I'm sure something can be worked out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Burnt_Retinas (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Re efficiency,

Worst case with alkalines X 6 or NiMh's X 6 (as it is intended to be configured) at 1 to 1.5A drive curent to the LED turns out to be greater than 90% at switch on (new/fresh charged batteries and at turn-on is worst case). I'll need Hotbeams numbers for lithiums.

This efficiency keeps on increasing from the moment of switch on until it hits direct drive mode where the efficiency will be above 99.5%.

ps Howard, fitting the damn board into the hotlips recess with the extra parts for out of reg LED was a hassle on single sided board, but it looks like it'll be a go-er. It should look nice and neat tucked in there!

Chris


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## UK Owl (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Can you please post the circuit for other modders to use.


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## Burnt_Retinas (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

It'll be posted as soon as I get it off the napkins and onto the PC.

It's not really much different from many other linear constant current circuits. The main difference is in using very a low restance FET or which there are many and a very low resistance sense resistor. All needed for maximum efficiency using batts so close to the LED voltage. In direct drive mode it's as good as a piece of wire. Direct drive was too risky for me with AA NiMH's, yet I didn't like the dropping current using a resistor.

A few pics with it's progress. Excuse the colour and brightness. I tinkered with some lights at the time....

















Fits into a hotlips real nice, like a bum in a bucket. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


Chris


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## yclo (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


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## shiftd (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Nice /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
It looks so complicated that my mine started spinning (but hey, it is 6 in the morning and i haven't been sleep all day, so that spinning might be caused by this sleep-deprivation /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

Umm, it seems like the converter will require mag assembly to be cut off some or all as it might hard press the converter, which is at the bottom of the heatsink; is it correct or am i just hallucinating?
Also, can we use the Magix resistor as a dropin to the existing hotlips? I notice the title said "Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ," so, does that mean the circuit will come preinstalled with the hotlips and the previous hotlips will be of no use anymore?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif circuit


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## Overamp (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam
Please add me to the list for one of these if it is not to late. Thanx


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## hotbeam (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Man Shiftd, you do burn the midnight candle!! Yes, the bulb stalk will need to be cut a little.

At this stage, the Hotlips with Magic Resistor (oooh oooh... *MR Hotlips*. What do you think Burnt? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif) will first be released in the form of completed lights in a D-sized Ontario Aluminium body - ready for immediate use. It *may* even have a nice LS too /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. No promises yet. We have to go down this approach because access to components is very limited and it takes considerable time doing just one circuit!

After that, pending time, access to components, etc... MR Hotlips may be released as a "kit". Stay tuned though. It also depends on general interest. If there is enough interest, a short run may be able to be organised via our local shop. Please post your interest so I can work out what to do.


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## Rothrandir (Jul 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

very nice! :thumsup:

i'm very anxious to see these /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Phaserburn (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Question: can the LS emitter still be exchanged easily? I have a hotlips already I was saving to mod, but it would be great if I could move the circuits from one hotlips to another, one with your white LS and mine with a cyan 5W emitter...

Ontario aluminum? Pics? How would one cut the bulb stalk in a mag? Anxiously awaiting...

(The sound you are hearing is my power-drool)


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## Phaserburn (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

My drooling apparently has clogged my brain. I withdraw my duh-inpiring question about the Ontario aluminum...!!


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## hotbeam (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Phaserburn

The emitter will be epoxied on the Hotlips, so no, it can't be removed *easily*. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The first batch (very small number) of Hotlips with Magic Resistor (MR Hotlips) will be as turnkey mods, ie *MR Hotlips TK*, ready for immediate use /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. 

After that, more Magic Resistor circuits *(MR)* may be made and will be available as *MR Hotlips* (ie the circuit embedded in a Hotlips-D) or just the plain circuit (MR). 

The first batch of MR will be hand made for the MR Hotlips TK. The MR Hotlips and (MR) will only be made if there is enough interest. We need a run of 40-50 for it to be affordable. 

More runtimes will be done in during this weekend and I will get the graph posted so you can see the results. Hopefully, this will generate a bit of interest and we can proceed down the 50-60 path. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Sorry for the acronyms and abbreviations but it is hard to describe the many options available. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif 

Ahhh, you understand what Ontario Aluminium is now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. That is all they are good for so why not call a spade a spade?


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## milkyspit (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam, will the MR-Hotlips modules in the turnkey lights be removable so, for instance, I could later move the module to a different light?


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## hotbeam (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Scotty, it can be removable if you tell me you want it removeable (noted).... so you can change the current setting, etc.. Otherwise, they will be epoxied in (to prevent tampering /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)


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## SHINER (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

PAYPAL SENT!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
Can't wait Hotbeam.
SHINER.aka>CHRIS


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## hotbeam (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Updates:

Photos of our test *MR Hotlips TK* attached. Runtime graph within the next couple of days or earlier. Now waiting on prices for the 40-50 unit run, supply of Luxeons and OAD's.


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## Rothrandir (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

<font color="red">*bad!*</font> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

truly clever putting the indicator there...i wonder why it didnt' occur to me... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohgeez.gif

truly cool. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


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## milkyspit (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeamster, this is a thing of beauty. Hope it won't bankrupt me, 'cause I'm inclined to get one! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You probably mentioned this before, so sorry to ask again, but will the turnkey light be focusable?


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## hotbeam (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Finally been able to transpose runtime figures from the notepad to the computer. 

The graph shows a popular direct drive combination using 3 x CR123 Lithiums driving a 5w Luxeon compared to a 6 x AA configuration using the Magic Resistor in the Hotlips a.k.a. MR Hotlips at *1.5A*. The only worthy battery contenders were the Lithiums and rechargeable NiMhs**. 

The NiMhs, known for their high current output, were able to run at 1.5A for ~47 minutes continuously before dropping off fairly rapidly. The Lithiums were not able to convert battery chemicals fast enough to maintain the high current *(1.5A)* demanded but were able to sustain a slightly lower amperage *(~1.35mA)* for a considerable time. 

There is a lot of bright light here!! Even after the light goes into Direct Drive mode, you are looking definately more than 40 minutes above 500mA when using Lithiums and ~20minutes when using NiMhs!

Hey, if you want longer runtime, drop the current from 1.5A to 1A!! Still a 33% overdrive but the runtime would be improved.

Alkalines were also used in the runtime test but they are hopeless and could not sustain the current drain at all. It dropped down like in an exponential curve. Will update the graph with this info in the neat future. 

**I believe if Li-ion batteries are used in the MR Hotlips, it would be able to extend runtime significantly and keep up with the current requirements extremely well.


==== THIS SECTION BELOW IS OUTDATED. SEE FIRST POST FOR CURRENT DETAILS ==== 

T H E O F F E R S

*MR Hotlips TK*
In a short while, there will be a few MR Hotlips Turnkey units for sale. These will indeed be very special lights. It will come in a 6AA configuration with preloaded L91 Lithiums, in an Ontario Aluminium D-sized body with a Direct Drive Indicator LED. It will be finished off with a UCL lens and a special Luxeon. Exact details to be provided shortly. Pricing TBA. This is a ready to use light.

***Depending on the sourcing of special Luxeons, I might be able to offer more of these. Please indicate if you would like this option. Also, there is a strong indication that the 3 TK units are already sold but just in case, please post your interest.


*MR Hotlips *
I would like to take preorders (no payment required yet) for this from those who have not shown interest yet before proceeding further as this will involve considerable financial commitment (in my eyes anyway) on my part to get it running. MR Hotlips will be supplied will be supplied with the complete Magic Resistor circuit embedded in the Hotlips and epoxied in place. The Direct Drive Indicator LED Indicator will be soldered in for convenience and emitter wires ready for immediate installation. Then drop it into your OAD flashlight body, connect the power and you are ready to go. You can of course adjust your desired current setting using a 2mm flathead screwdriver. Price roughly around ~$55-60+$5 (5 day delivery). A photo of this setup can be seen above.


*(MR)*
(MR) is just the bare Magic Resistor circuit with DDI LED . Preorders also required for these. This is essentially the circuit before it is fitted into the Hotlips. Price around $30-40+$5 (5 day delivery).


MR Hotlips or (MR) will only proceed if I can get enough quantity. So if you are interested, please post your interest here. Feel free to PM/EM me if you have any questions. Lastly, I would like to publicly thank Burnt_retina for his invaluable input, technical advice and putting up with my countless questions. Thanks Burnt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


==== THIS SECTION ABOVE IS OUTDATED. SEE FIRST POST FOR CURRENT DETAILS ==== 


*Graph of the Magic Resistor set to 1.5A. 3x123s in Direct Drive*


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## yclo (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Can you make it fit into a [email protected]? Will it run on 3 x 123's?


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## hotbeam (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

It is very close.... let me check the OD of the Magic Resistor....

It is currently 24mm. The ID of the OAC is 26.2mm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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## jdriller (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm in for the TK "Mr. Hot Lips". Put me on the list. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## lemlux (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam:

How much voltage will the Hotlips w Magic Resistor handle? Hopefully it's similar to the 15 V peak input of the PowerPuck.

I expect to receive 4 @ of Chief Wiggum's 4AA to D adapters next week. It would certainly be nice to be able to use 8 @ AA NiMHs in a Mag 2D to drive Mr. Hotlips.

BTW, if you arrange to buy some of these adapters from Chief Wiggum I'd be willing to put them in the package I'll be sending you later this month.


----------



## Christoph (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm in for one "MR" complete circuit w/no heatsink
Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm in for a MR with no hotlips as well!


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Some quick questions, hopefully not too burdensome on your time. First, what happened during the L91 runtime test -- did the light temporarily drop into DD mode, then somehow later go back to regulated mode? That temporarily drop in current is interesting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Second, is the current adjustment capability done using some sort of multi-position switch (in other words, discrete settings) or a variable resistor?

I'll also second lemlux in wondering what the max input voltage might be -- the flexibility of additional batteries for longer runtime would be great. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

In addition to the questions, I will say this: That two hours above 1.0A using L91 cells looks mighty good. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## shiftd (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I did ask howie earlier. 
first, he explain the lithium anomaly with a dam. lithium: big dam, small faucet. Nimh: big dam, big faucet. Alkaline: small dam, small faucet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
second, yes. the current is adjustable using a small screw like thingie.
dunno on the other questions


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Was just browsing through the earlier posts and found this info:

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
*Voltage:* Acceptable range between 5v and 20v.

*8 NiMh:* You won't get a longer runtime (very marginal at best) with 8 NiMh. However, if you were to parallel 2 x 6 NiMh, that is a different story. 


[/ QUOTE ]

This answers some of the recent questions. I'll defer to hotbeam to tell us whether these specs are still valid or have been superceded.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*shiftd said:*
I did ask howie earlier. 
first, he explain the lithium anomaly with a dam. lithium: big dam, small faucet. Nimh: big dam, big faucet. Alkaline: small dam, small faucet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
second, yes. the current is adjustable using a small screw like thingie.
dunno on the other questions 

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the dam analogy left me more confused. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif I'm probably being picky, but I was wondering if the DD indicator would have lit, then gone out again, then come on for good. I'm hoping that DD wasn't engaged (and hence no DD indicator) until the cells were really just about dead, as it would be confusing the other way around.

As for the adjustment question, maybe I should have asked differently. I specifically wondered if ANY current can be selected (like the volume control on a radio), or if there are a few specific settings (like a multi-position switch)? Not a big deal either way, just curious. Sorry about the confusion.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

This brings up an intriguing application for the MR Hotlips module. Imagine putting one into one of those lanterns with huge lens, handle, and 6V lantern battery... except replace the battery with a sealed lead acid rechargeable, which I believe is available in a lantern battery size and should be capable of meeting the heavy current demands for an extended time.

Now THAT would be some kind of superlight! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
It is very close.... let me check the OD of the Magic Resistor....

It is currently 24mm. The ID of the OAC is 26.2mm. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]


Howie,

You guys got a really cool thing going on here, best of luck to you both. One thing I would watch for, if you are going to consider doing a MR Hotlips for the C" Mag, is to be sure of the production version you are measuring the inside of. The "newer" ones have a significantly smaller inside diameter than the previous models. They can be readily identified by whether the serial number begins with a "C" or not (smaller ID ones do have the "C").


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*jdriller:* Recorded /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*lemlux:* The best voltage is about 1-3V above Vf. The more Vs, the more heat will be lost. 15V is too much. The MR will handle it but it will get hot quickly. If you want 8AA NiMh, you should go a V or W Vf led comfortably. But there won't be much change to runtime. The mA of the batts determine the runtime. (Obviously, but included for completeness). Again make sure Vs not >> Vf. Let me think about the 4AA to D a bit first. Very interesting though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Christoph:* Recorded /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*phaserburn:* Recorded /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Sure?

*Milky:* I didn't have the DDI installed at that time but it would seem so from the figures. Yes, the drop was surprising for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif but it picked right back up so /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Li-ions would be just nice! 

Current can be adjusted by taking the Hotlips off and using a 2mm jewel screwdriver. The pot ranges from 0mA to 3A. *BE CAREFUL!* You need an ammeter in series to make current changes. Clockwise will increase the A, anticlockwise to decrease. It will be "factory" set to 1.5A unless you want it lower.

Voltage per reply to Lemlux. If you can get more current in, that would be great for runtime. Li-ions would *probably* be the best. 

Yes, very happy re the >1A at 120min!! 

Also the 5-20V is the operating voltage for the chip. This is not a boost circuit so putting in 5V is no use. But this is a *very efficient circuit* in DD mode that can prevent current surges, regulate current and efficiently direct drive. There is very little resistance in the circuit. For all intended purposes, it is like a piece of wire in DD mode.


*Mr B:* Thank you for your kind words. Yes, those guys in Ontario must be cookoos. 28.1 to 26.2 to ???. As it is, the (MR) being 24mm, it will fit in both OACs but if and when Hotlips-C is done, the (MR) may need to be redesigned. Hmmm.. perhaps it can be redesigned now before production? Food for thought.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

OK. So far, this is what I have.


============ PRE-ORDERS OUTDATED. WILL NOT BE UPDATED HERE ANYMORE. ============ 
============ TOO CONFUSING WITH TOO MANY OPTIONS ============ 

*Turnkey* ("Factory" setting is 1.5A)
----------------
phaserburn (Sil)
milkyspit (Blk, Sil, Blu, Rd)
Jdriller (Sil, Blu, Rd, Blk)
pi_is_blue (colour?)
RussH (colour?)
Starlight (Blk)
branny (Sil, Blu, Blk, Red)

shiftd (1.5Amp)
StoneDog (Possible)


*MR Hotlips*
----------------
lildave
jcciv
LEDmodMan (no epoxy, notified of danger)
RussH (no epoxy, notified of danger)


*MR* (See IMPORTANT NOTICES below)
----------------
christoph 
phaserburn (1Amp)
jcciv


*Which Choice?*
Please PM me with version you want? TK, MR or MR Hotlips

stanH
PercaDan
Overamp

===================================================




*Important Notices:* 
If you just want just the Magic Resistor (MR), you will need to find a place to heatsink the TO220 style FET. This FET is attached to the 24mm diam circular MR board. This will get HOT (~70C) reasonably quickly when driving at 1.5A. Heatsinking this is highly recommended! You can see a photo of this above (about the 46th post from the top). 

*The delivery of MR Hotlips and MR will be done after the TK and until numbers are firmed.*


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
Current can be adjusted by taking the Hotlips off and using a 2mm jewel screwdriver. The pot ranges from 0mA to 3A. *BE CAREFUL!* You need an ammeter in series to make current changes. Clockwise will increase the A, anticlockwise to decrease. It will be "factory" set to 1.5A unless you want it lower.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is it feasible to perhaps put a little paint spot or mark with a permanent magic marker the maximum "safe" adjustment point -- in other words, adjusting further right from there would probably fry the emitter?


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Scotmeister... what is safe /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif in this world of overdriving?? He He. 

The pot has a ~10 turn range. Counter clockwise to the limit will make it 0A. At factory it will be 1.5A, ie approx in the middle. If you want a different mA rating, please let me know. I will mark that point as the starting point. 

Bare in mind the pot is ~2mm so it will be difficult to mark more than one point.. given the number of turns required to distinguish between say 1.5A and 2A.

To increase the current, you'd really need an ammeter given the severity and impact of your actions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif AND you need to take responsibility if you want to overdrive /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (Not being harsh, just realistic)

PS. Burnt_retina has run his MR Hotlips at 2A (!!!) for 15mins on a V2U before it ran out of regulation and went in DD!! 

Did my explanation help?


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Okay, now I still can't believe this myself as it seems to be too good to be true, but it looks like BatteryStation.com has rechargeable lithium cells in a D battery size, rated 3.6V and 16.5Ah! (Note that this rating is AMP-HOURS, not milliamp-hours!) Two of these ought to power the circuit fine, and assuming level discharge at a rate of 1.5A, theoretically could power the light for 11 HOURS. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I still don't believe it. Please, someone, either verify that I'm thinking straight, or pinch me to wake me up. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Oh yes, the model number of the cell is "LS-33600" and it's manufactured by SAFT.


----------



## highlandsun (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Saft lithium batteries are primaries, not rechargeables.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
Did my explanation help?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, actually quite a bit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I didn't realize you were using a 10-turns pot. It would seem that a good rule of thumb when adjusting things would be first to turn all the way to the left (counterclockwise), then make sure the pot was never turned more than 5 complete revolutions to the right. I assume this would be roughly the 1.5A point.

I also have no problem using my DMM while adjusting, but am wondering how it comes to be hooked in series -- do I have to unhook some of the traces?

Also, what would the "official" current flow to the emitter be? I'm not at all clear on the specs for the 5-watters. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*highlandsun said:*
Saft lithium batteries are primaries, not rechargeables.


[/ QUOTE ]

Aw man! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Well, I suppose you can still buy a couple of those cells and enjoy 11 hours of light, but it's going to cost you $35.00 ($17.50 per cell). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Spitty.

10-turn pot.. look at the pic, it is that beigey coloured thing on the post by Burnt (~46th post). 10 turn pot will give you pretty good current adjustibility.

To measure, ideally (most accurate) remove one lead to the emitter and measure the current there whilst adjusting the pot. If that is difficult, I'll speak to Burnt to see if we can wire up something so you can desolder and resolder.

5w at spec is 750mA (!!!) so we are overdriving a bit... just a little bit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. Check the graph above. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
To measure, ideally (most accurate) remove one lead to the emitter and measure the current there whilst adjusting the pot. If that is difficult, I'll speak to Burnt to see if we can wire up something so you can desolder and resolder.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is the emitter soldered into the circuit? If so, maybe there could be some kind of simple connector inline, like the type used with the fans inside PCs, or one of the connectors available at an automobile parts store? I could do some legwork and find one if you like.

With a connector, measuring current would involve unplugging the emitter and plugging a special little test cable inline. I've no doubt that supplied with an extra pair of the same connector, I could wire the patch cable myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Of course, if the emitter already unplugs somehow, none of this really matters. Also, I wouldn't want to cause circuit resistance to increase too much, which means maybe none of this is practical, anyway. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Incidentally, sorry about all the questions. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif You've been very patient with me.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

You /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twak.gif me

Hee hee. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

In the TK, the emitter is already epoxied onto the Hotlips' post and the +/- wires come up from the circuit through the Hotlips out over the post and soldered on the +/- tabs of the emitter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif This is where you *could* desolder and put the ammeter in series (btwn the lead and the tav).

That is obviously the best place to measure A but there isn't much room to play there. Your connector concept is good but there is no room there. Will need to find a place on the circuit side and perhaps do something similar. 

Note though the current you measure from any place other than in series with the emitter will be marginally higher than that experienced at the output end (due to loss within the circuit) but this is not a scientific experiment so a few mA loss is OK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I've been looking at various types of lithium cells and their estimated costs. Interesting to say the least...

Lithium AA: 6 per feeding at $2.00 each, supplying 2.9Ah means $4.14 per Ah, or *$6.21 per hour of runtime* at 1.5A. *Estimated runtime 1 hour 56 minutes.*

Lithium D (SAFT LS-33600): 2 per feeding at $17.50 each, supplying 16.5Ah means $2.12 per Ah, or *$3.18 per hour of runtime* at 1.5A. *Estimated runtime 11 hours.*

CR123A: 3 per feeding at $0.80 each, supplying 1.3Ah means $1.85 per Ah, or *$2.77 per hour of runtime* at 1.5A. *Estimated runtime 52 minutes.*

The SAFT "D" cells provide ridiculously long runtime and are close to the cheapest per hour to operate. I also discussed a quantity purchase with Kevin at BatteryStation.com, and it looks like a group buy would bring the cost down enough to make this the *cheapest* cell per hour, too. Rechargeables of course are also an option, although the runtime will be relatively short.

Personally, I'd like to feed this light a combination of rechargeables or SAFT "D" cells, depending on how important it was that the light not rundown while "in the field," so to speak.

Anyway, interesting stuff. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Note that the SAFT cells could also be used in some of Elektrolumens' lights. Maybe we can put together a group buy! I'd be willing to coordinate, but that's a bit down the road yet...


----------



## Rothrandir (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

wow, that's crazy!
putting the prices on it really pushes it into perspective.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Nice summary Milky! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif A good guide to determine the relative life of the 3 battery types.

I'd trust the L91 and SAFT figures more than the cheap CR123A. What brand are selling at $0.80? Panasonic, Sanyo, Energizer I'd trust more. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So... for 3-4 day camping, use the SAFT. For general use, the L91 is the go! 123's... when you want to show-off? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I was a little off... Countycomm is selling Tekcell 123's for 75 cents each in quantities of 100. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It's over here.

For better quality 123's, Surefire is selling boxes of 12 for $15 each ($1.25 per cell). I don't remember the exact amount, but if your order reaches (guessing) $85 the shipping will be free.


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam, is it possible for you to create a battery pack for liIons? They'll fit side by side or around 3 deep in a 2D. That would generate 11.1V with 4200mah. I think that may be the ideal power solution! Milky, any ideas? The pack that holds 3x123 will hold 2x150 liIon for a total of 7.4V. But, I do think that in this case the third cell might be advantageous, depending on the LS bin. I have 2 cells running a 5W Blaster VI right now, and they are DD with .5 ohm resistance; generates a runtime of over 2 hours. Not sure what current that they are providing in that setup.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Phaser, the physical side of things should be fine. The 7.4v Li-ion on a low Vf Luxeon would be ideal. I would not recommend using the 11.1v Li-ion on a low Vf LED. The 11.1v *may* be OK for a V Luxeon. Perhaps a W Vf would be even better. I don't know what is coming yet and even when they get it, it'd need to measure the actual Vf rather than take the AB21's figures. 

The MR was really designed to take 6AAs ranging from an unloaded voltage of ~8v to 10v, ie "standard" off-the-shelf batteries. Because Li-ions are so strong, I really need to rethink the whole situation for your specific configuration. It also depends on things I don't know yet (Vf of LED). Also whatever is decided, you won't be able to go back to the standard configuration of 6AA batteries. Can we wait till all bits are in first before we make a decision?


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Absolutely! I am patient (part of the officially required CPF Training Curriculum)! My comments are only for discussion purposes. And true, I am using the 7.4 li-ions on a U rated vf 5W. Don't go crazy on it, but it seems you are taking great care to create the Best Most Perfect setup and TK unit (which is why I leaped on board!). That's why I'm just shooting the battery breeze here; it is in no way meant to be a critique of the awesome work you and Burnt are putting into this. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## jcciv (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

one MR Hotlips and one (MR), please.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*Phaserburn said:*
Hotbeam, is it possible for you to create a battery pack for liIons? They'll fit side by side or around 3 deep in a 2D. That would generate 11.1V with 4200mah. I think that may be the ideal power solution! Milky, any ideas? The pack that holds 3x123 will hold 2x150 liIon for a total of 7.4V. But, I do think that in this case the third cell might be advantageous, depending on the LS bin. I have 2 cells running a 5W Blaster VI right now, and they are DD with .5 ohm resistance; generates a runtime of over 2 hours. Not sure what current that they are providing in that setup. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Phaser, here's what I think. (Hotbeam can jump in and correct me anytime since I'm only discussing specs while he has the actual flashlight in front of him.) First, there's an error in your math. Three cells in series to produce 11.1V would still have only 1400mAh capacity, although at a higher voltage. Battery capacity (mAh) considers only current flow, not the voltage. Also, you're mixing specs from the 150S and 168S cells; the 150S actually has 1000mAh capacity, and it's the only cell which would fit 2-deep into a 2D cell flashlight unless the tailcap spring is nearly an inch long and could be trimmed dramatically. Based on the specs available here, there's absolutely no hope of 3-deep with either cell. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

So let's see what we can do here. If a pair of 150S cells would truly fit side-by-side in the battery tube, I'd try configuring them as 2-deep of 2-parallel cells; in other words, a 2x2 arrangement of cells. This would result in 7.4V (2-deep) with 2000mAh (2-parallel) battery capacity. This would yield an estimated runtime of 1 hour 20 minutes -- shorter than the L91 Energizer lithiums, but heck, this variation is rechargeable! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif The parallel arrangement would also ease the discharge requirements somewhat, which would probably help keep the light in regulation during the entire runtime. In baseball terms I wouldn't rate this a home run, but maybe a standup double. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now, it's *VERY IMPORTANT* that the Pila cells incorporate an overdischarge prevention circuit! Li-Ion cells that discharge too rapidly get very hot, which triggers a chain reaction (thermal runaway) that can destroy the battery. Worse, the reaction often results in the EXPLOSION of the battery, which can destroy you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif The link I referenced above says the cells have overdischarge protection, but I'd check with the manufacturer themselves to make sure! Better safe than, er, blown up.

An alternate source of Li-Ion cells for this project would seem to be over here at PowerStream.com. This page mentions a Li-Ion AA cell manufactured by BYD (whoever that is), with 3.6V output, 750mAh capacity, and maximum discharge rate of 1.5A. These could be arranged in a 2-deep by 3-parallel configuration to provide 7.2V with 2250mAh capacity, for an estimated runtime of 1 hour 30 minutes. Even better, the maximum discharge rate would become 4.5A (due to the 3-parallel arrangement), so the 1.5A or so that Hotbeam will demand of his power source /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif should be easy for these little guys.

That's all for now, other than to say I've been impressed by what I've seen on the PowerStream website, and my gut tells me these people could make us the best Li-Ion option for MR-Hotlips-TK. Anyone want to call/email PowerStream and inquire about the possibility of having those BYD cells custom-built into a 7.2V, 2250mAh battery pack we could slide into a 2D flashlight? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Er, one more thing, actually. There's a guy around CPF (Chief-Wiggum?) who has been building 8AA cell inserts for 2D flashlights. If we could get him to make us adapters for a 2-deep, 4-parallel arrangement of those BYD cells, we'd end up with 3000mAh and 2 hours runtime. That would be nice, too, and potentially cheaper than having custom battery packs built.


----------



## StoneDog (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Is there a price for the MR Hotlips TK yet?

As for the Saft Lithium "D" batteries, the 17.5Ah (LS-33600) is intended for low current applications around 100 MICRO amps with pulses from 10 to 400ma. There is another "D" though - the more expensive Saft LSH20 - that is rated at 13Ah with a recommended 1.8A maximum continuous current. That translates to *$5.53 per hour of runtime* at 1.5A with an *estimated runtime of 7 1/3 hours* (of course some of that time will be direct drive and/or under-driving the LS).

I pulled the spec sheets from: http://www.powerpacks-uk.com/safthenc.htm

Jon


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
So... for 3-4 day camping, use the SAFT.


[/ QUOTE ]

Beamster /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, your light might actually be too bright (!) for camping! Maybe for a reading light in your living room during an 11 hour power outage -- or even for lighting the ENTIRE DOWNSTAIRS of your home? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## LEDmodMan (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Whoa, a lot has happened here recently. I had better keep my eyes opened better in the future!

OK, two things I have here (three really):

Firstly, I would like to pre-order MR Hotlips! 

I think I can use this with the 2x6 parallel/series AA battery holder I made for my DD 5W mod awhile back to get 2 sets of 9v. I know there is already a question involved here though, would 2x6 parallel/series AA Alkalines be able to provide the necessary current at 9v? I believe the answer is yes, easily, as I've seen a bit over 2A in DD on my mod using this kind of configuration /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif (a W3 5w, before it it died /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif, maybe why it died).

Last, I have had an idea for awhile on how to *easily* run 4 AA's in parallel in place of a single D cell (or even easily run a parallel/series configuration). It is still just an idea in my head and I haven't experimented with it as of yet, so I'm sure the idea is probably somewhat flawed and needs some refining, but the theory is sound anyway. See this thread for more information.


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky, I stand corrected. My math was indeed faulty. And I agree with your assessment of a 2x2 config. I believe they do fit side by side in a mag. There's also the possibility of using a MR Hotlips in a 3D Mag (my intention for a 5W cyan emitter and hotlips I already have). Lots of power possibilities there.

I think the Pila's come standard with an over-discharge protection circuit built in.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hi Guys

Not at my normal computer at the moment. Quick answers below.

*Phaserburn:* No problems. Will keep the dialog happening

*jcciv:* preorder request noted and updated on the site.

*Milkyspit/Phaserburn:* Keep going with your discussion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*StoneDog:* The current run of (3) MR Hotlips TK looks like they are all taken already. As soon as I get my LS's, I will work out a price. Sorry for the delay. Will put you down as a TK possible.

*LEDmodMan:* Thank you for your preorder.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*StoneDog said:*
Is there a price for the MR Hotlips TK yet?

As for the Saft Lithium "D" batteries, the 17.5Ah (LS-33600) is intended for low current applications around 100 MICRO amps with pulses from 10 to 400ma. There is another "D" though - the more expensive Saft LSH20 - that is rated at 13Ah with a recommended 1.8A maximum continuous current. That translates to *$5.53 per hour of runtime* at 1.5A with an *estimated runtime of 7 1/3 hours* (of course some of that time will be direct drive and/or under-driving the LS).

I pulled the spec sheets from: http://www.powerpacks-uk.com/safthenc.htm

Jon 

[/ QUOTE ]

Jon, I inadvertently skipped past your post earlier. Thanks for the info! In the meantime I had also seen that limitation in the LS-33600 and was bummed out. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Thanks, too, for making me feel a whole lot better that we're still in business with the LSH-20. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Actually, you've underestimated the runtime (or it's equally possible that I'm too sleepy to use a calculator right now /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif ) -- the LSH-20 would provide an *estimated runtime of 8 hours 40 minutes*. You make a good point about some of the runtime being out-of-regulation and ultimately underdriving the LS, though for the same reason the observed runtime well might be *longer* than estimated; the decreasing current flow toward the end will (I think) result in a gradual, longer-lasting tailoff of the light output just as would happen with a direct drive or resistored light.

Then again, the high current flow, which will probably get a bit higher as the regulator maintains brightness while the cells are beginning to drop to lower voltages, might cause the battery to exhibit less than the advertised Ah capacity. So would use in colder than normal temperatures. There are so many variables. For simplicity and (judging by hotbeam's runtime chart appearing several posts above this) still reasonable accuracy, I just assume level discharge the entire way. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

For what it's worth, I popped the tailcap of my Space Needle II and took some measurements of current with my DMM. Roughly speaking, and with partially used cells, I was reading 1.1A.

Now if Hotbeam can get us some 5-watters as good as the one in my SNII (nudge, nudge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), his light at 1.5A ought to be very special indeed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam, I'm having another thought as to the mysterious runtime graph for the L91 cells. It may be that one of the 6 cells was weaker than the others (happens sometimes, I know I've heard of it with 123's), quickly died, and for the remaining time the other 5 cells drove the light.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*milkyspit:* 1.1A on the SNII... good current reading /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif What LS is on your SNII? The dodgy L91 *could* be a problem. Though I did measure the each L91 before starting the runtime and the total unloaded voltage was 10.62V. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif On the point of changing the current of the MR Hotlips TK, Burnt advises that the best way is to measure the voltage across the sense resistor and numerically calculating the current value, instead of the physical method of desoldering, disconnecting connector pins, etc... Burnt does not want to introduce additional resistances to this highly efficient circuit!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Also this way, the circuit stays nice and tidy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*hotbeam:* I have no idea what LS is in my SNII; how can I find out without removing it from the light? I don't mind unscrewing the flashlight's head, but I really don't want to disturb the LS itself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif

Regarding your suggestion about measuring current on MR Hotlips TK, as long as I know where the sense resistor is as well as its value -- and as long as the current through that resistor matches the current flowing through the LS -- then that approach sounds fine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## RussH (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam - I'd like to get the MR hotlips turnkey if you are going to make more of these. I want it without the epoxy for future adjustment (1.5 amp to start is fine). Also put me down for a MR w/hotlips for my own mods, also without epoxy. I may try to stuff that in my old 6C mag.
Do you have a total price? I can paypal the money any time.
RussH


----------



## Doug S (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
Note: This curcuit will use top shelf components. Eg. The on-resistance for the FET is 0.0028R (!!) and sense resistor is 0.015R (!!). When the battery voltage is ~ the LED voltage, it is in-effect *direct driving* !!!




[/ QUOTE ]

Hotbeam, I'm guessing that you have a typo here and meant .028R [ohms] not .0028R. It would be hard to justify the added expense of .0028R when the sense resistor is .015R. 
Carry on, this looks like an interesting endeavour [non-US spelling just for you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ]


----------



## LEDmodMan (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

IIRC, all SN II's used the W3W binned LS's.

Question, is the epoxy *just* to hold the MR circuit in place, or does it accomplish some thermal management also?

I believe that either way, I would like my MR Hotlips *without* epoxy for ease in possible future changes. Thanks.

BTW, I may also be interested in one or two bare hotlips heatsinks (or even a Hotlips C as well), will there be enough, or do I need to order them now? What about payment?

*edit* OK, made the decision. I want one bare std. Hotlips heatsink, and one Hotlips "C" heatsink (for newer C OA bodies) in addition to the MR Hotlips. When should I pay, and how much if this is all shipped together? Do I get the discounted prices on the two bare heatsinks since I'm already getting a MR Hotlips?


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*RussH:* Thank you for the pre-order /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Sorry, I don't have further details apart from what has been posted above. Will keep you informed through this thread. _**EDIT. Also please note the comment about having no epoxy between the circuit and the Hotlips. The FET is also an electrically sensitive component so you will need to ground yourself before touching it. (Sorry for the simple statement)._ 

*DougS:* The figures are in fact correct /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif FET = 2.8mR (0.0028R), sense resistor = 15mR (0.015R). Yes, the FET is marginally more expensive but in the quest for super efficiency and overkill /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif, that is what is being used.

*LEDmodMan:* I have a SNII with a V2T. Hasn't the SNII been around a lot longer than the availability of W3W's... even to Mr B? I may be wrong. In the MR Hotlips, yes, the epoxy is there to hold the circuit in place, within the confines of the Hotlips. Sure, if you want it with epoxy, that is possible. Please bear in mind that if the body is dropped, the circuit may be dislodged from the FET, since the FET is screwed into the Hotlips and it is the FET legs holding the 24mm circuit board in its place.

Hotlps-D is availble from this thread and Hotlips-C is yet to be conceived /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif. A decision will still need to be made as to whether a run is viable. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif No payments are required yet as the final price/availability is still up in the air. Your preorder for the Hotlips-D and C and MR Hotlips noted. Thanks. Sure, will make some concession on the total /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif when a total is available.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
In the MR Hotlips, yes, the epoxy is there to hold the circuit in place, within the confines of the Hotlips. Sure, if you want it with epoxy, that is possible. Please bear in mind that if the body is dropped, the circuit may be dislodged from the FET, since the FET is screwed into the Hotlips and it is the FET legs holding the 24mm circuit board in its place.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hotbeam, I'm getting my MR Hotlips not epoxied into the host flashlight, so I'll be able to access the adjustment pot... but as for the board itself, that WILL be epoxied to the heatsink, is that correct? Or am I horribly confused?


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Right on Milky /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## LEDmodMan (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thanks Howard! Do you want me to note my preorder for the D and C hotlips on their respective threads also?

Again I *don't* want epoxy on my MR Hotlips (not sure if you understood me correctly). I will make sure the circuit is secure before using it.

Maybe I was wrong, I thought the SN *II* used the W bin codes and the earlier version SN (not SN II) used others. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif 

BTW, an *average* SN II produces *<font color="red">216 Lumens*</font> in an integrating sphere!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

LEDmodMan... I understood you: NO epoxy for your MR Hotlips /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. If you wouldn't mind just sticking your name on the appropriate threads re the Hotlips-D and C, that would save me a lot of time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif later. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif on the SNIIs. Anyway....


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I have the following OA2D bodies coming for the MR Hotlips TK - a 6AA 5w constant current turnkey unit with direct drive mode LED indicator (DDI) built onto a Hotlips-D heatsink (sorry for the long name, will work out a concise name soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif). Please advise what colours, in order of preference, you would like.

Black
Silver
Green ***EDIT, Green NLA
Red
Blue


----------



## jdriller (Aug 9, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Silver
Blue
Red
Green
Black


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam, here are my colors in order of preference:

Black (by far my #1 preference!)
Silver
Blue
Green
Red


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Aug 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I am interested in a prebuilt 2D M*g with a 5 watter, hotlips, and the magic resistor. I would like it to be geared to be as bright as possible.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Attention my fellow hotlippers! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif After painstaking R&D in my state-of-the-art labs (okay, more like grabbing a 2D flashlight from the kitchen cabinet and trying to cram a bunch of CR123A's into it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ), I think I've identified the most cost-effective throwaway power source for the MR Hotlips TK. The plan is to slide TWO columns of three CR123A's into the battery tube... in other words, 2x3xCR123A. This should provide an *estimated runtime of 1 hour 44 minutes* at a cost of *$2.60 per hour* when CR123A unit cost is $0.75 each (Countycomm is selling Tekcells for this price in lots of 100).

Six months ago I probably would have been all over those Energizer L91 lithium AA cells -- they've been personal favorites for a *long* time, and for those lucky enough to get a MR Hotlips TK directly from Hotbeam, he'll reportedly be loading them with these cells for an *estimated 1 hour 56 minutes* runtime right out of the box! Very sweet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif In recent months, though, the CR123A prices have been dropping like crazy, to the point that these little guys are now the lowest-priced power source available, short of rechargeables. In the 2x3 arrangement, they approach the runtime of the L91 cells, too, all the more so because the parallel arrangement should meet the high current flow demands of MR Hotlips TK better than a single stack o' batteries would, making the whole arrangement more efficient. For reference, Energizer L91 cells cost about $2 each at BatteryStation.

On the rechargeable front, as stated before, 2x2xPila 150s would probably be the best option in terms of runtime, with this arrangement providing an *estimated 1 hour 20 minutes* of juice. Actually, NiMH cells theoretically should do just about as well, with 2100mAh capacity NiMH cells offering *an estimated 1 hour 24 minutes*. However, Hotbeam's graph (several posts prior to this one) shows NiMH providing significantly shorter runtime than calculated here. There could be two reasons for this. First, Hotbeam's NiMH cells might have been lower capacity than 2100mAh. Second, the fact that it's a single stack of batteries means they were expected to provide 1.5A of current, which might have stressed the cells and made them less efficient than they theoretically should be. (High current draw does that to batteries.) The Pila Li-Ion cells probably won't have this problem because just as in the CR123A example above, these also will be running in two parallel stacks, reducing current demands on the cells.

Finally, for those who'll need light for a *long time*, the SAFT LSH-20 lithium D cells would provide runtime of an *estimated 8 hours 40 minutes*. Holy electrons, Batman! There is a price to be paid for this, though, literally: *$5.54 per hour of runtime*, which is a bit cheaper than the per-hour cost of the Energizer L91 cells but more than double the cost of CR123As.

So there it is! Now one of my little projects will involve fashioning some sort of quickie battery tube adapter for 2x3xCR123A use in the MR Hotlips TK. Stay tuned! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## LEDmodMan (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

BTW, just to clarify, there *are* V2T SNII's. I was wrong, gee imagine that... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*jdriller:* Thanks and noted.

*pi_is_blue:* Thanks for your pre-order. 1.5A is what we are running from the "factory". I think that is plenty of light already. Having said that, we have done tests at 2A and that has worked fine, ie. no blown LED. However, the increase in drive does not give as much increase in brightness (proportionately to current) and reduces runtime. You are free to tinkle but BE WARNED of the consequences /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

*milky:* 2 sets of 3x123s... hmmm good idea. Colour choice also noted.

*LEDmodMan:* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I would like it driven at 1.5A. No need to get too greedy for more light! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milkyspit,

Your battery research is informative. It helps show that if you want power you've got to have a power source capable of providing that power. It also shows there is a cost. You obviously also understand that "X" lumens per watt, the more lumens you want, the more power you will need. Your research has also shown why it was important, for me at least, that this project be able to successfully run on, and be able to drain rechargeables both effectively and efficiently, yet be able to use any other primary cell technology when in a pinch. I use my torch for half an hour+ per night, every night, during winter when walking the dog. So far I've clocked up over 60 hours of torch usage this winter and there's more to come.

Your comments re amp-hour of battery vs actual - Hotbeam I believe was using 2AH made in China for the tests (what one sacrifices when in a pinch). They are therefore to be taken very conservatively and you will perhaps get better times with better brands. Additionally, most manufacturers of small AH batteries rate their AH capacity based on small current discharge values such as 20mA. The actual AH rates at higher currents will be much less, the difference being affected by the brand. 

It was a tough decision which way to go for a regulator, but as soon to be released efficiencies will show, especially when using NiMH's, it did extremely well. You'll be impressed!

It is clear that for such power, and allowing for good runtimes, there is a trade-off - the size of the torch. It needs to be capable of holding cells of large energy capacity. A 2D is a good choice for this need.

All in all, you'll be impressed. It's a torch capable of being used as a real torch, not just a show-off item to blind friends intended to be run cautiously for just a few minutes for fear of overheating the LED or your draining primary cells (expensive by your $/hr numbers). It will be VERY bright, robust, well built, efficient, capable of very useable runtimes as a few examples have been shown, capable of running of readily available AA cells of multiple technologies and of course blindingly bright.

Pi_is_blue,

If you want more than 1.5A I recommend NiMH's (or a milkyspit 2 X 3 X 123's holder cartridge?). I hammered mine at 2A and it was ok (of course there were reduced runtimes). You could also go more current and basicaly use the regulator to act merely as a current limiting device, perhaps set to 3A, to prevent the often heard of blowing of the LED when using NiMH's, especially when hot off the charger. Remember, you can always adjust it up anyway if this is the option you choose, but it'll be at your own risk. Just let Hotbeam know you want NO epoxy of Hotlips to Mag body and you can gain access to the pot.

Chris


----------



## IsaacHayes (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam: Re: PM - I can not afford any "niceities" at this time due to recent drain in money (hitting a deer, lawyers, & college). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Maybe by the next time you come out with a new "hot" item I'll be able to splurge. Thanks for the follow up though.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt,* Very nice to hear from you, and thanks for the kind words. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The battery life issue is important to me, and I admittedly have a bias against NiMH, though I admit it's purely personal. Li-Ion is of interest, and the 2x3x123 adapter cartridge (which I really do hope to make) would conveniently allow use of primary AND Pila 150S cells. I like the versatility of power source with this light, and am looking forward to your handiwork. Just wish we could find a way to get 3+ hours of regulated light out of the thing! (That is, 3+ hours without resorting to exotic cells that cost lots per feeding and are only available in a few places.)

We almost need someone to design a custom Li-Ion insert to fill the entire battery tube, and thereby achieve the maximal possibly capacity. Bet we could hit the 3 hour mark with that!

And an inductive charger, where you slide the flashlight into a charging sleeve without actually plugging anything into the charger, would be fantastic! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif My Sonicare toothbrush does it; I'd love to see that happen with this flashlight as well. Maybe someday...

One final thought: I could also see a variation of this project fitting a MR Hotlips module into a waterproof 6V lantern -- the kind with the lantern battery, carry handle and HUGE reflector -- as a super powerful area light which also provides long throw! A quick estimate of the capacity of those lantern batteries makes it seem we could run your circuit for something like 16 hours in the big guy, and operating cost would probably fall under $1 per hour... *MR BigLips* anyone? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Isaac* That is fine. Accidents happen. Keep an eye on this thread to see where it goes though.. you may need to bite the bullet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*Bunt* Cool 

*Milky* Keep it up! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milkyspit,

I can understand your bias away from NiMH's, but for daily runtimes of >30 mins (mine) they are the choice for $ reasons. If you use the torch less frequently or a very long single runtime then they are obviously not the choice due to self discharge and capacity compared to lithium technology. That's not a problem however as you can pack whatever cell technology into this as you want so it meets your needs.

Three hours at 1.5A would indeed be nice, we just need to be able to pack enough fuel in the body of the torch to do so. At this point in technology Li-Ions would definitely be the way to go and the 2D form of the torch should give a big enough tank to hold the required power. Unfortunately Li-Ions have only relatively recently been available is standard cell sizes rather that custom (read expensive) battery packs for cameras, camcorders etc. I have only seen AA's here in Oz, but even those are rare here and so too are chargers for Li-Ion AA's etc. Perhaps if someone with Li-Ion experience in US (and someone did mention these in an earlier response, just can't remember the name) can tee up a visit with a purchaser of this torch over in US then the answers can be had about Li-Ion performance. It should be a winner.

I've thought about the lantern LED too. Unfortunately I can't justify the LED cost vs use I use a lantern torch for. If you do ever try one, post the results. It'd be nice to know how well it performs. If I was a tad younger and still going out campng almost every weekend up the bush then I'd do it.

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Sooo... Milky, is someone building a 2D carrier for 6x123/4x150's? That sounds great if possible and would be wonderfully versatile. If possible, I plan on using this yet to be built carrier for 4x150's. I don't use this kind of light daily, but when I do it's for a more extended period than 30+ mins.

Hotbeam, you have my color preferences "on file".


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt*, To go off-topic for a moment, I'll bet there are some *great* places to camp, er, "down under!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I've wanted to visit Australia for a long time and probably will eventually. Among other things, I'd like to take a ride on one of those trains that cross the outback! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, I'm glad you're not too old to be designing nifty circuits like this. Many thanks. (And you must have the coolest dog-walking flashlight in the neighborhood, eh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif )

*Phaserburn*, What the heck, I'll build a 6x123 adapter. Maybe even a few of 'em. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The disclaimer is that I am *not* a machinist, so I'll be scavenging for parts in my local Home Depot, and the result may not be pretty... but it ought to work nicely. Please pester me about it once the lights arrive, if I haven't reported any progress by then.

Seriously! Sometimes I need a "friendly reminder." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

In the meantime, you might want to order one of the 3x123 adapter tubes ("CR123 Battery holder, for 2 'D' cell flashlight") from Elektrolumens' online store. They're pretty inexpensive ($6!) and well-made, although of course you'll only be able to run MR Hotlips TK at perhaps 50 minutes per feeding. Hopefully, though, that will tide you over until I finish my own adapter.


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

I already have the EL 2D adapter, and was planning on running with the 2x150 config until otherwise provided! Thanks, sounds great for either 6x123 or 4x150. I will indeed be reminding in a "friendly" way! Once a flashaholic has been baited with promises of increased runtime at 1.5A...!

Just spent a vacation week in NJ; Riverdale to Atlantic City, Wildwood and then over to New Hope, PA for the Sesame Place experience for my 5 year old son (an Elmo fan).


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaserburn*, Hope you enjoyed the vacation. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I took my wife to New Hope when we were dating; very nice town for walking around, and some neat little shops! Wildwood used to be an annual trip for my family when I was a boy. Still haven't been to Atlantic City. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

I just ordered a couple more EL 2D adapters to tide me over until my own adapter is finished.

Wish I knew a sympathetic machinist! (Anyone reading this? Hint, hint...) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes, New Hope is nice. Atlantic City is an "experience", so to speak. I actually prefer Vegas, of course. Also, the casinos up here in Connecticut (Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun) are very cool and well done. I'm not much of a gambler, but for people watching... Where in NJ are you? Just drove across your state last night up 287 North to the Tappan Zee bridge.

Hotbeam, do you have a way of building this adapter? You asked me (sort of offered) about that in your message. Maybe save Milky all those trips to Home Depot?


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 15, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

There are indeed many great places to camp. You could camp a different place each night and still run out of life before you've see it all. I wouldn't recommend a train trip through the outback though. It's really flat for miles and miles with nothing much happening. You'll fall asleep after the first few hours. Best get a car and visit every town you can. It'll trip you out, especially if you are from a large city!.

Chris


----------



## Starlight (Aug 15, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Please add me to your list for a turnkey. Black, 1.5A, not epoxied.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 15, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaserburn*, I'm in a tiny little town called Califon, which is basically in the middle of nowhere in the northwest quadrant of the state. Lots of cows and cornfields out here, despite the ever-threatening spector of development. Hope it stays, er, "unbuilt" for a while, so to speak. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Heck, let me know if you'll be in the vicinity sometime, and bring a bunch of flashlights. We could do some show and tell over a cookout or something! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Not that I expect you to know these people, but we have some good friends who live in Old Greenwich, and we'll be trying to plan a weekend visit to their house sometime in the next month or so.

*Hotster* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif , Much as I love browsing around big hardware stores, it would be *fantastic* if the 2x3x123 adapter could get done in a little more professional manner. I haven't bothered you with the request because I imagine you've kept plenty busy with MR Hotlips TK, plus I might try to beg your help on part of my Milky Candle project.

So I won't formally ask you to help with the 2x3x123 adapter. If, however, you *wanted* to help with it of your own accord, I have a simple design in mind that you could probably whip together with minimal fuss. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Speaking hypothetically, of course. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thermal solution Hotlips to Mag.

Hotbeam is producing a premium product here and given the number of TK's requested without AS epoxy between Hotlips and the Mag another solution had to be found. It wasn't good enough for me to see kitchen foil used in such a premium product for those that preferred not to have AS applied, nor was it acceptable to compromise thermal conductivity. Remember, at 1.5A you'll be pumpin' that LED with 10W and the heat needs to transferred to atmosphere.

Well, we have the perfect thermal solution. Each TK and MR Hotlips product will be shipped with a length of highly thermally conductive silicone impregnated material, specifically designed to conduct heat. This is the real stuff! It'll provide the required thermal conductivity between the Hotlips and Mag body. It is intended to wrap around the Hotlips (single turn)then the assembly slid into the Mag body.

Note, the thickness chosen is such that it is a tight fit to ensure maximum thermal conductivity. This is of primary importance. Though the Hotlips can be prised off, ever so sloooowly, I wouldn't recommend you do it often as you may break the lip on the hotlips. I've removed mine mine 4 times and the lip is looking a little second hand. My Hotlips has have chapped lips!

Hotbeam will be responding to all order and possible future project builds (batteries etc) requests as he gets the chance.

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Burnt, that sounds fantastic! How long is the length of silicone? Do you have a picture?


----------



## Rothrandir (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

as far as the lips, the next run will be designed with thicker ones /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (think angelina jolie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif)


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ooh, I'm thinkin'.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## Rothrandir (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

hands where i can see 'em! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

She had quite a nice cover shot on Rolling Stone mag recently... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*phaser:* I think it is better if I leave the 2 x 123 building 
to Milky. I should concentrate on the MR Hotlips TK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. See also below.

*Starlight:* Thank you for your pre-order. Please watch this post 
for updates. It should be ready in shortly.

*Milky:* Talk to me more about the 2 x 123 in a couple of weeks.

*Burnt:* Very good /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. That stuff will work wonders and still allow the
Hotlips to be removed. Yeah, new Hotlips will have Jollie lips /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*Roth:* Ha ha /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 


Enjoying the yummy food on holidays at the moment. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Phaserburn,

The length is just short of 1 full circumference of the Hotlips. No overlap is required, nor will it be possible to fit the Hotlips if there were any overlap. It is 0.18mm thick and about 15mm wide (+/-1mm on the 15mm as my knife didn't behave itself). If the fit is a tad tight for anyone using it then trim a bit off at a time reducing the circumference until you are happy. This will allow for any variation in Mag ID's. Just make sure you have at least 80% of circumference covered to give acceptable heat transfer. No pic yet, but will soon.

Rothrandir,

A tighter fit would be nice for those that want either an interference fit or to use thermal epoxy. The down side - hotlips would be harder to remove. In a way I'm glad rev 1 left the gap it did. With the gap and the silicone sheet, the needs of all of the people were met (most wanted removable hotlips). It worked out in our favor this time.

Chris


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thought you folks might want to know about a Tekcell vs. Surefire 123 review that I just posted *over here* in the electronics section. It could help with some buying decisions on how you want to feed your MR Hotlips! At least for 123 cells. But I think you'll find it enlightening (hmm... pun intended? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). At least, I hope so. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

I like your efforts in producing useful info on such topics. It really helps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seems you like the idea of how much energy can I get in that space and what does it cost. I think the same, hence the Mag 2D. It has the required space to pack a lot of power with multi-cell technologies, without being too large. At 1.5A current AND the desire for long run-times it really does come down to 'how big is your gas tank'? It'll then dictate run-time. I want as much power and as much run-time as possible, but at a good cost and reasonable size given the power you are asking.

I really do believe Li-Ion may be the way to go however. Now I'd really like to pack the Mag with those. The fact the LED won't draw current at significantly less than it's Vf means the main drawback of Li-Ions, don't discharge too far, is eliminated.

Any chance of a test with 7.2V worth of Li-Ion's? Now that would be good to know. I'd like the answers as I'm sure would others, but given we in Oz are behind US in domestic release of such cells that's not easy from here. You could be the first to graph a 2D Mag packed full of 7.2V Li-Ions using the MR, which is at it's best with such boarder-line voltage source requirements, such as 7.2V worth of Ni-MH's (greater than 99% approaching DD and approx 99.4% at DD mode, yet no worse than 91% instantaneous hot off the charger then dropping to 96.6% after 5 mins and heading for the 99+%) or perhaps Li-Ion. I think you'd be impressed with 7.2 worth of Li-Ions, but I wish I could know.

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

About that friendly reminder (re: nagging) to you to build the 2x2x123 holders... Here ya go! Seems Hotbeam has his hands full at the moment. I'd do it, but I truly believe you wouldn't want to use anything I was able to construct! My help will lean more towards sage wisdom and advice (yeah, right). Burnt seems to be as high on the Li-Ions as I am.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt/Chris* (Burnt Chris? Hee hee /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), I'd be happy to give it a try. We've got some logistics to overcome, however; here they are, in no particular order:

<ul type="square">[*] I need to assemble a simple 2x3x123 adapter for the Mag 2D body.
[*] I need a Mag 2D, for that matter! (Have 2D lights, but not a Mag.) What I mean is that I can't make an adapter which is guaranteed to fit MR Hotlips TK unless I've got the same model of Mag 2D flashlight to design with.
[*] I need guidance on proper methodology, so we end up with reasonably accurate results.
[*] I have a Meterman LM631 light meter (if it's good enough for Mr. Bulk, it's good enough for me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), but that means I'll need to write down readings every what, 5 minutes, manually? A data logger isn't essential but would be real nice.
[*] I need Li-Ion cells![/list]
What would you suggest as the plan of attack in terms of overcoming the above issues? I mean that seriously, because I'm inclined to do the test if possible.

*Phaserburn*, yesterday I had an interesting impromptu chat with my cousin, a welder. He was fascinated with this flashlight stuff I've been doing, and actually spent a fair bit of time disassembling my EL Blaster VI to see how they machined the various parts. He offered some ideas for a battery adapter and might actually help me construct one. (Or hopefully a few of them.) I sent him home with a 123 cell, and he's supposedly going to poke around a bit after work.

That said, I'll try to head to our friendly neighborhood jumbo hardware chain store, which because I actually live in a rural area, is 25 minutes away. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif Keep meaning to do this, just always seem to have other obligations. I'll go soon.


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I've got it. Eureka! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Suddenly the design for the battery adapter dawned on me. Hooray! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Won't go into details here, but for now will say that I'll need a couple readily-available parts from a hardware store, and two *very* simple machined parts, which could be done by just about anyone with a lathe.

Now... anyone got a lathe? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

See what happens when sage wisdom meets someone with a brain and can actually do something valuable?! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif You go, Milky! I only have 2x150's. Should I break down and get another two? What % certainty of success are we looking at here? No pressure, or anything...!


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaserburn*, tell you what. You buy two more 150's, and I'll buy a Fluke 189 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif to log the data. (Need an excuse to get that toy, anyway! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) I intend to track the runtime similar to how *Roy* did it, by hooking a photoresistor to my DMM. I've also got what might be a pretty cool idea for designing the photonic equivalent of an anechoic chamber (you know, those supersilent rooms they use to measure sounds). Muaaahahahahaaaaaa... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

Do we have a deal?


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ok. I'll order the 2x150 Pila's, and when they arrive, I'll ship them and my existing 2 from CT to NJ. You'll then have 4x150's and the charger (I'll ship them fully charged) to conduct our tests! Burnt, one official Li-Ion Runtime Test coming up!

You now have approximately one week or so to build the holder! Well, actually longer depending on when the TK's are done and shipped to us...


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Well done Milky. Can't wait to see those Li-ion batt holders. Might have to get some from you if I can find a charger here in AU. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Phaser, the TK is should be ready in ~1 wk. Thanks for your patience /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

*Battery Holder for the TK*
Given the 3AAtoD Elektrolumens battery holder is my preferred battery storage device, can I suggest that those getting the TK get those directly from Wayne?

I can get them but they will need to be shipped to me in AU and then I'll need to ship them back to you in the US! Sounds like a waste of $ for me. Is that reasonable?

If you are desparate, I will need to use the 6AAtoD holders.

*** EDIT. Of course the final price will be reduced.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky/Phaser,

This is great news /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

As far as cell technology goes, Li-Ions would be the way to go for torch mods. Lots of energy and rechargeable as well!

Now it would be interesting to see if this 'niche' circuit can do wonders for such hi-tech batteries relative to a conventional buck or boost (depending on what you want re size vs runtime etc) in regard to efficiency and holding regulation for the longest period. You can't please all of the people all of the time though.

Now to research the 150 Pilas to see what might be expected. I honestly have no idea of the battery pack so this will be interesting indeed. Any links where I can find info? Perhaps theres bigger and better Li-Ions that can really pack the Mag 2D with a really full tank of gas?

If this circuit isn't best with 7.2V worth of Li-Ions, then I guess I'll just have to re-think where I'm going. Perhaps fine tune or re-design to make it the best. I really do like Li-Ions and I do believe it really is the way ahead for driving these high powered LED's with maximum runtime vs cost. It'd be worth the efort. NiMH's run a second best for me give my usage. 1.5A+ is a MUST and size counts eg 5W puck just don't fit and can't give the current. Downboy - yet to be thrashed.

Chris


----------



## branny (Aug 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I've been watching this thread for a while now, it's time to stick my nose in.. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif 

1st up the basics: Hotbeam, as per my PM, please put me down for a MR Hotlips TK, 1.5A, not epoxied. colour preference Silver;blue;black;red.

Now my thoughts (such as they are!) on various issues: 

(a) I really would like to be able to remove the hotlips from the torch relatively easily if possible. This is for a number of reasons, foremost the possibility of different battery configurations, for example a 3D M*G would be really cool with a 4AA-D converter in a series/parallel configuration (kind of like Chief_Wiggum's) This would give 2 paralleled series of 6 AA's, doubling the runtime as compared to a 2D with 2 3AA-D packs, for only a 1D increase in size of the torch. Also this would halve the current draw on each battery, hopefully increasing efficiency. I know these would be difficult to make, but what an incentive! I've got a couple of the old Radioshack (Tandy in Oz) 4AA Battery packs so I'm dragging out the dremel and soldering iron and see what I can come up with! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif 

(b) With respect to the cost of running with CR123's, have you considered cutting down the DL223's from cheapbatteries.com? They're Duracell so they should be top quality, and they're only $1ea if you buy a hundred, that's 50c a CR123 (if you want to buy 1000 they're only 75c!..38c a CR123!). No insulation around the barrel, but that shouldn't be a problem if your battery holder is non-conducting.

(c) To assist in removing the Hotlips from the torch, perhaps a connecter can be fitted between the MR and the switch. This would also allow an easy way to roughly measure current (obviously not taking account of losses in the MR) but still accurate enough for someone who wants to play around.

That's enough for now...off to bed.

Brandon.


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Burnt,

This is where I am getting the Pilas. The page contains some specs.

http://www.1esa.com/pilaacc.htm

Pilas self-contain all control and safety circuitry to protect them from over charging, discharging, etc. In effect, the Pila becomes as easy to use as any other battery. Easier still because of the lack of self-discharge bleeding that plagues NiMH without constant use/charging.

Milky,

Placed my order for the 2 additional 150's last night, and they seem to have prompt service. I'll let you know when they arrive.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Branny,

You've latched on re the 2 X 6 cell configuration, but it would be a trick to get that from 2 X 4 battery holders. Not too difficult though, and yes you'd get more than 2 X runtime. Good idea /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

re points b) and c). This will have to be discussed with Hotbeam. Unfortunately between a full-time job, building circuits and living life my spare time is minimal, hence the joint effort here. 


Phaser,

These Pilas look good, but given their capacity you'd only win if it were as per Milky's 2 X 2 123 configuration. Then you'd have the perfect 7.2V 2.4AH rechargeable source /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now where are those AA Li-Ions gone too.....I must see what AH they are. I suspect they may pack an even fuller tank of gas into the mag using 2 X EL's 3AA to D's (parallel option) in series?

Let's push the envelope even further. We now have 1.5A regulated, multi-cell options, so why not go the extra step - Li-Ions for the modder. Keep pushing.

This torch stuff is fun. My addiction is growing......oh no..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Burnt; Agreed. 4x150's Li-Ion in the "PhaserMilk" config (Gads!) may be juuust right. But, by all means, let's keep going! About those AA li-ions, though... the explosions and fires can be so unsightly...

Anyone know the draw of a Blaster VI with .5 ohm resistance? I've gotten a little over 2 hrs runtime with 2x150's.


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Afterthought... I have a "perfect mag reflector - camless version" coming from Otokoyama in a few weeks. Orange peel metalized mirrored surface. Thoughts on suitability for the TK? See his thread for better details.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Phaserburn,

Runtime vs holding a regulated 1.5A current.... Keep in mind that you will get runtime way longer than you will get a regulated 1.5A regulated current ie full brightness, regardless of configuration. It wouldn't be comparing apples with apples to compare the Ni-MH graph Hotbeam published with the 'runtime' of a Blaster VI on 2 X 150's. It would be nice to plot current vs time for the same Blaster VI/0.5 ohm/2X150's config to see how the batteries really compare.

Chris


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*branny said:*
...I've got a couple of the old Radioshack (Tandy in Oz) 4AA Battery packs so I'm dragging out the dremel and soldering iron and see what I can come up with! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif 


[/ QUOTE ]

Why not? Go for it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
*branny said:*
With respect to the cost of running with CR123's, have you considered cutting down the DL223's from cheapbatteries.com? They're Duracell so they should be top quality, and they're only $1ea if you buy a hundred, that's 50c a CR123 (if you want to buy 1000 they're only 75c!..38c a CR123!). No insulation around the barrel, but that shouldn't be a problem if your battery holder is non-conducting.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are there really a pair of CR123 cells in a DL223? If so, then this sounds like a reasonable idea. (We'll need to make sure they're up to the standards of the Surefire 123 cells and other name-brands, though.) As for the insulation or lack thereof, I'd be inclined just to run a little electrical tape around the outside of each cell. Quick and painless! Not much to look at, but if you're concerned about the aesthetics of your batteries, perhaps you should reconsider your priorities. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hmm... kind of like cracking walnuts, but for electrons. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I just did a couple more current measurements on my EL Blaster VI and Space Needle II. First, note that I'll describe the condition of the cells in terms of the binning and measurement techniques I described for 123 cells over here.

Using 8.x-binned Surefire 123 cells (this means they're pretty fresh but not out-of-the-box-new in Surefire terms) in the Blaster VI, I measured current flow of roughly 1.6A.

Now hold onto your hats, mates (trying out my Aussie dialect /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), because the Space Needle II using 9.x-binned Surefire 123 cells (in other words, brand new cells) registered a little more than 2.0A! Yikes! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

So I guess our little 1.5A monster will have its work cut out for it, although 10 minutes into the runtime, we'll probably be drawing just as much current as the SNII is.

*Phaserburn*, if you're getting 2 hours out of your Blaster VI on the Li-Ion cells, that's a really good omen. Using 3x123 cells, I only seem to get about 1 hour of decent runtime. Does the light stay close to full brightness the entire time, or can you clearly see that it fades over the 2 hours?

Regarding that orange peel reflector, I've of course never seen or used one myself, but I know faceted reflectors work great with the EverLED, though that is a side emitter. In the most general terms, this type of reflector should smooth beam imperfections and remove artifacts, at the cost of changing your light from long throw to a somewhat shorter range flood. But I'd imagine the TK, good as it's bound to be, still won't outthrow a good incandescent, so maybe this is a moot point.

And to add a potentially controversial value judgment, I'll add that for most purposes, I'd prefer a super powerful flood with moderate throw to a super powerful long throw with little flood any day.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Also, folks, one minor thing: I believe the 150S cells have 1000mAh capacity each, not 1200mAh, so they'll give you 2000mAh in the 2x2x150S arrangement we're targeting. (Unless they just upgraded the specs.)

I believe two series banks of 4xAA Li-Ions would give us 3000mAh capacity overall, if you don't explode in the process. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif Kind of reminds me of the infamous quote by Washington, DC's mayor Marian Barry: "Other than the murders, Washington, DC is a very safe city." Hee hee... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Scott,

That's a lot of current for the SNII. No wonder it is bright. Seems EL has gone the safer option and made it about the same as I recommend the MR be set at.

I'm not so sure I'd like to push my LED at 2A for too long, but if you are that way inclined, just crank the pot up on the MR. As long as you have the power source to cope the pot should have a range in excess of 3A. I recommend however, stick to 1.5A as EL does. The only thing limiting the MR achieving such current would be the battery voltage overhead under load. Fortunately that's where the MR shines - you'll only need about 30mV overhead under load, but of course a couple of hundred mV would be nicer as it'll drop as the batteries drain. At about 30mV overhead, the circuit will direct drive, but with an efficiency of over 99% - better than a fixed resistor for sure. A resistor will also be dropping current proportional to voltage, the MR will regulate until the 30mV overhead is hit then behave like a short circuit - well 18 milliohms. Your battery contacts may well be more than this. Your current meter certainly will be more - way more.

Branny,

I notice Hotbeam hasn't responded yet. You must forgive him as he is on holidays OS at the moment and has been having trouble getting ISP access. He will be back in a couple of days. Be assured you have not been missed or forgotten.

Chris


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Chris*, I think the reason SNII gets away with that kind of current is that it begins dropping almost immediately. You can actually see it going away, bit by bit, on the DMM! Like sands through the hourglass.

I never said I wanted my TK at that level! 1.5A will do nicely, thank you very much. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anyway, as I said before, within perhaps 10 minutes even the SNII will be down around 1.5A, though I didn't specifically test for that.


----------



## branny (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Chris: Don't worry about it, hotbeam was nice enough to email me, just putting my preferences down in the thread so as to eliminate confusion. Also (b) and (c) in my previous post weren't meant as suggestions for inclusion in the TK's but rather ways I'll probably modify it when I receive it. However if my 4AA-D works I'll probably order a separate Hotlips MR and fit it myself to a 3D [email protected]

Milkyspit: Check out this thread for taking apart DL223's to obtain CR123's  Thread 

The only bugger is that Cheapbatteries has a minimum order of $500 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif for overseas destinations. I'd be up for $100 worth but a 1000 CR123's might be a bit of overkill. Anybody in the US interested in a group buy? 

Brandon.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

With the hotlips and the thermal 'tape' - for a better word, you would get away with 2A continuoulsly anyway. I did during testing.

Branny,

Cool. Hotbeam is on the ball!

Be carefull here re 123's. There's been much talk re 123's but there have been 2 different flavours. 123 Lithiums, AND 123 sized, or at least compared to 123 Li-Ions. They are not the same. I believe the push is for the Li-Ions, not Lithiums, but as they are similar size (well, perhaps Pila's anyway' then the talk re battery holders has been towards a 2 X 3, perhaps 3 X 2 123 (lithium) sized holder BUT to house Li-Ions, only two of which will have 7.2V. I may be corrected however?

I'm getting confused myself re the use of "123".

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

The aim is to try a new holder that will accomodate either 6x123 (lithium 3V) or 4x150 (Pila Li-Ion rechargeable; 3.6V). Size-wise, 3x123=2x150. Both batteries would be run in parallel to up the runtime and handle the drain better.


----------



## LEDmodMan (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*

Now hold onto your hats, mates (trying out my Aussie dialect /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ), because the Space Needle II using 9.x-binned Surefire 123 cells (in other words, brand new cells) registered a little more than 2.0A! Yikes! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Milky, you must've missed it when I said the following a little ways back in this thread:

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDmodMan said:*
I think I can use this with the 2x6 parallel/series AA battery holder I made for my DD 5W mod awhile back to get 2 sets of 9v. I know there is already a question involved here though, would 2x6 parallel/series AA Alkalines be able to provide the necessary current at 9v? I believe the answer is yes, easily, as I've seen a bit over 2A in DD on my mod using this kind of configuration /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif (a W3 5w, before it it died /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif, maybe why it died).


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, over 2A is doable, but for how long is the question. These 5W LS's can really suck the current!!!


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*Phaserburn said:*
The aim is to try a new holder that will accomodate either 6x123 (lithium 3V) or 4x150 (Pila Li-Ion rechargeable; 3.6V). Size-wise, 3x123=2x150. Both batteries would be run in parallel to up the runtime and handle the drain better. 

[/ QUOTE ]

*Phaser*, couldn't have said it better myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*LEDmodMan*, I read that but didn't put it all together in my brain. Thanks for the gentle reminder. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Incidentally, as I said the SNII gets away with it (2A) because almost immediately the current flow begins falling... and falling... though you won't notice much difference in terms of light output for a while due to the way the eye perceives brightness in non-linear fashion.

Or something like that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

General Quick Query: Pila actually lists the 150 Li-Ion cells at 3.7V, not 3.6V. That would generate 7.4V, not 7.2V. Better, Burnt? Or does anyone have reason to believe that Pila is misquoting the voltage of the cells?


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky, Burnt: by the way... 2 new Pila 150's received and charging...! I will ship them to NJ when Hotbeam ships the TK's (4 Pila 150S and charger).


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaser*, Regarding the true voltage of those Pila cells, the most accurate thing might be simply to test them on a DMM. I'll do so when I get them from you, if you haven't already beaten me to it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I can't imagine the voltage is a real problem either way, though; I'm hoping it *is* 3.7V per cell, or even a tiny bit higher, so the cells can keep things in regulation longer... the light will fall out of regulation when the voltage supplied by the cells falls below what's required by the emitter.

Also, just today I received the Fluke 189 tester. Now a quick trip to the hardware megastore is in order, then I'll be all set for the testing.

Incidentally, did I give you my mailing address yet? PM sent just in case.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*branny:*
You can remove the MR Hotlips with a bit of patience. The Direct Drive Indicator LED is epoxied to the light body so that will need to be removed/loosened first. Feel free to try 123s. Just remember you don't want huge voltages hitting the MR. Oh, I see Burnt has replied. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Phaser:*
Yeah, 4 x 150 Li-ions would make the TK a monster!! Let me know hoe you go with Otoyo's reflector?

*Milky:*
Re your 1.5A vs 2A... got to really compare apples with apples /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. If you really want 2A CONSTANT, stick in the Li-ions and up the current to 2A and let's see what happens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Again, burnt has replied.

*LEDmod*
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

LEDmodMan,

I think 2 X sets of Alkaline's would get you 2A, but not for long. I have runtime numbers for 1 X set and they didn't hit 1.5A for more than a few seconds. They did get there though for that short few seconds. The story will be significantly different when the current drain is halved.

Phaser,

7.2V/7.4V would be insignificant. 7.2V would be better but we're talking fractions of a single percent of effect on efficiency here so I wouldn't worry. It'll be 'just the way' they specify their numbers, nothing more. The chemistry of the cells is the same.

Milky,

You don't need higher volts to keep this in regulation longer. As it is, the circuit will regulate until complete discharge of NiMH's (well, regulate until one hits the NiMH discharge 'knee' where it drops fast). Li-Ions are a higher voltage so it's simply not an issue. The LED will regulate right until the Li-Ions also hit their discharge 'knee'.

All -

Picked myself up some Li-Ions today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I bought 6 X AA 650mAH Li-Ions for a total of 7.2V @ 1950mAh and also 2 X 1865's for a total of 7.2V @ 1800mAh so I could suss out these Li-Ions. I'll leave the Pila cell tests to Phaser and Milky. All will fit into a Mag 2D.

Tests are currently on the way, but what I have so far is the test using the 1865's. It's their first charge from the factory so perhaps if they exhibit the same 'burn-in' increase in current the numbers may be better. The results - a full 1.5A for 65 mins followed by a quick drop-off to 733mA 10 mins later then to 50mA after a further 10 mins. I'll charge the batts again and see if they cycle up in capacity like NiMH's do. Even if they don't, holding 1.5A for over an hour is impressive - all for AU$40 of cells which will only drop to 80% of capacity after 400 charges. If you want to picture it, find the graph Hotbeam produced in an earlier posting (post 70 I think) and just draw a flat line at 1.5A right through to 65 mins! Even at this 80% level of 400 charges, that's equal to each cell only costing AU 5 cents if they were primary cells. I don't think anything to-date matches that. 123 Lithiums DD can't even hold 1.5A. Even if they did, though they don't, can you buy those for AU 5 cents each? The NiMH's are good, but simply can't match the time - most likely to their rate dropping more proportional to current being drawn than Li-Ions. Milky/Phasers experiment sould however show even better results. Their numbers suggest a higher capacity than 1800mAh. Perhaps there's even another cell that will pack the Mag 2D even fuller of energy! The 1865's left a lot of space! I'll continue to search /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I like Li-Ions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Keep in mind though, not everyone has access to these. The project must continue to completely discharge all cell technologies from Lithiums, Li-Ions, Alkalines etc down to the extremely low voltage overhead provided by NiMH's so the circuit won't change.....yet. NiMH's are important to me and perhaps many others.....but I really do like these Li-Ions! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
*Milky:*
Re your 1.5A vs 2A... got to really compare apples with apples /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. If you really want 2A CONSTANT, stick in the Li-ions and up the current to 2A and let's see what happens /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Again, burnt has replied.


[/ QUOTE ]

*Hotbeam*, for some reason I feel like my prior post *keeps getting misread*. I wasn't comparing 2A with 1.5A at all, and certainly wasn't comparing the lights! The latter would be foolish, anyway, since current readings can't tell me anything about the emitters, reflectors, lenses, etc., that all come together to result in light output. No comparison possible! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There was some curiosity expressed about how much current the SNII and Blaster VI drew, and given that I had just changed to fresh cells in the SNII I rechecked the current flow readings. I also checked my Blaster VI while I was going to the trouble, then reported both readings here in the thread.

I think I see the trouble spot. My mention of "I guess our little 1.5A monster will have its work cut out for it," eh? *Sorry for the confusion!* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif All I meant was that the SNII is no slouch as confirmed by the excessively high current flow reading with fresh cells. As I said, there can be no conclusions about the OUTPUT of both lights using only current flow readings.

Also, I believe wholeheartedly in what I said after that, namely that 10 minutes (or so) into the runtime, we'll probably be drawing just as much current as the SNII is. Personally, I'd rather have a light that delivers 1.5A start to finish than one that delivers 2.0A but then tapers off, even if both lights AVERAGE 1.5A! For me it's the consistency that matters; that's part of what I see as reliability in a light: you know exactly how bright it will be without having to know how many minutes it's already been run.

Anyway, hopefully everyone understands what I meant now? Pretty please? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt*, those are some nice results. It's also encouraging that your 1800mAh capacity theoretically would have run the TK for 72 minutes, and in practice you remained in regulation for 65 minutes with some additional time in tailoff. Sound like the practice is pretty consistent with theory here, which gives me confidence that the other calculations done earlier in the thread were realistic.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

With regard to the Pils 150S cells, theoretically we ought to be able to achieve 1 hour 20 minutes runtime, presumably nearly all of it in regulation. Sounds like (fingers crossed) this is likely to come true, or close to it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

All,

Hotbeam is back! I have many kits here that were awaiting his return. Soon, very soon, all TK's, MrHl's and MR's should be despatched. Hotbeam will be installing the kits into TK's for all that have ordered....and you'll have a surprise when you get them. That's if all went as planned and of course if you didn't know already! You'll be impressed if all went ok during Hotbeams trip os ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Milky,

Actually the runtime of the Li_ion is real good. All batteries are rated in AH capacity relative to what is usually a low current drain, often 20mA for small capacity batteries. It is a fact that the AH capacity of batteries reduces as the current is increased. Given the Li-Ions gave what they could at 1.5A current drain is a credit to their technology. No it's not 1800mAh as per 'theory' when not considering the AH rate reduction with current as provided by battery manufacturers. Given the AH rating specs for such a cell at this current (allowing for AH reduction as per battery manufacturers specs), these Li-Ions perform great.

1800mAh doesn't mean you will get 1800mA for 1 hour....

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Welcome back, Hotbeam! Where did you go on your vacation?

Milky, I will send you the Pilas on Monday, if that is alright with you. Let me know.

Hotbeam, I guess I'll need the included lithium AA's afterall (re: my last PM to you), as Milky will have all of my intended power source Pila 150's for a few days! Otherwise, I won't be able to run the TK when I get it!


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt*, no argument on dimishing capacity when under high current load! If any battery chemistry is geared to handle it, though, it's probably Li-Ion. It's the chemistry of choice for portable computing these days, after all, and a modern notebook computer has relatively severe power demands! At least, much higher than ours. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Also working in our favor is the fact that those Pila cells are designed for use in SureFire incandescent lights, many of which draw 2A or even more. I think we're going to see a good result on this.

It also occurred to me while showering (where all good ideas come, no? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ) that what we *really* want for the TK would be a Li-Ion POLYMER battery, because this form of Li-Ion can be molded into just about any shape. We could easily get one to fit all the available space in the light, just as a pair of 'D' cells would. That might be worth looking into in the future.

*Hotbeam*, hope you enjoyed the vacation! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I've got a little surprise for you with respect to rundown testing of the TK. I tentatively call it the *ROD* (*R*untime *O*utput *D*evice) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif , and it's still under construction. Basically it will be like a wind tunnel for flashlights, in which the light will be sealed into one end of a large, opaque tube, and a photosensor will be embedded in the endcap at the other end. A data-logging DMM outside the tube will record photosensor readings over time, and the runtime test will therefore be completed in a closed, consistent environment where no ambient light will interfere regardless of when the test is done. I've got the big tube assembled and just need to add the photosensor. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Phaser*, sounds fine. Er, are you sending the charger as well? That would probably be a good idea.

I've now got the battery adapter nearly completed! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Bought two PVC tubes that will run alongside the Pila cells; now I need to make a couple endcaps, and should be ready.

Once more, though: can you convince me that I won't blow up my house because one set of Pilas starts to discharge into its parallel neighbors? My wife wouldn't like that... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky - Yes, I will be sending the charger as well. According to Pila, the cells contain a re/discharge protection circuit. In parallel, the cells should discharge at the same time, correct? Besides, I'm sure they wouldn't blow up much more than just your work area, not the whole house. Probably. No one said science was safe! Got any sandbags?


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Finally, my jewels are here!!! What do you think? Those guys with the TK will experience these little gems!!

MR Hotlips TK is now known as *MR-X* (Pronounced Em Arr Axe) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, yikes! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Not that there's anything wrong with that...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## Y2Kirk1028 (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

So will those who ordered a Turnkey get the X3T 5 watters? Please say yes...

PS
My color choices for the light are: red, blue, silver, black (in that order).


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes Pi, X3T will go into the new MR-X. Your colour choices noted. I have just received a batch of black. The next batch has red (~1 wk's time) so that will be yours.


----------



## ufokillerz (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

wow X 3 and T, thats ******* amazing, guess lumileds has worked out many of the problems.


----------



## flownosaj (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

humina-humina.....humina....

I know we've been told that binning don't mean nothing these days, but WOW! W's, now X's....

-Jason


----------



## ufokillerz (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

lolz too late to jump in on a tk unit right? if not email me =)
first dibs if someone backs out of a TK

[email protected]


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ufokillerz

At first I was only promised a few X3T but they have given me more so there will be more MR-X's available.

They will come in black OA2D bodies and can be shipped in ~1 week with a 1 week shipping time. Let me know so I can reserve them for you.

Also I am out of 3AAtoD battery holders. Please see first post for full details.


Hotbeam


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam Rocks!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

About binning - in my simple view, it seems to me that if a bin batch has up to 30% variance (I thought I read that somewhere?), I take that to mean 30% may have greater or less than the rated bin output. Well, that also means 70%+ does have the rated output, doesn't it? And if the variance is equally distributed above and below the rating, one could say 85% has the rated or less output. Hand selecting matters for the other 15%, but I guess what I'm saying is that while binning is no guarantee, I'd still like to take my chances and drive an X! Otherwise, we'd all be picking U bins still and saving money because it doesn't matter...? Comments welcome; clarification would be wonderful!


----------



## PeterB (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hi Hotbeam,

I would like to reserve an MR-X (X3T), without battery (208$).

best regards,

Peter


----------



## LEDmodMan (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*











Ayyyuuuuugggaaaa!!!!










/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif 

Ohhh my...


----------



## Glow Bug (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I would also like to reserve an MR-X (X3T) if they are available.


----------



## jdriller (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## AilSnail (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

"humina-humina.....humina...."

Can you please tell where that comes from or if it means anything? I seem to remember something like it from an old trance track ?


----------



## milkyspit (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*AilSnail said:*
"humina-humina.....humina...."

Can you please tell where that comes from or if it means anything? I seem to remember something like it from an old trance track ?


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a little crude, but on an early 1980s comedy album Eddie Murphy did a skit in which Ralph and Ed of the old "Honeymooners" TV comedy were gay and, er, loving one another. That sound was used during the, er, loving... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky, so nicely, er, phrased! The Pila Li-Ion 150's and charger are on their way to you. You should have them by the end of the week.


----------



## flownosaj (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
That sound was used during the, er, loving...

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I definetly "love" my high-bin 5watters! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Oh...wait... 

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

-Jason


----------



## Rothrandir (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

finally! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*rubs hands greedily*


----------



## PaulW (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Welcome back Roth.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaserburn:* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif. I agree with your binning analysis. You can always overdrive LSs to get better brightness but when you do it to a say, V, you do it at the expense of LED life. To get the same brightness, you probably don't need to overdrive it that much (if at all). Very generally speaking.

*PeterB:* Order taken. Thank you. Will update you on progress. 

*LEDmodMan:* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Glow Bug* Order taken. Thank you. Will update you on progress. 

*jdriller:* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

*ailsnail:* He he

*milky:* yeah /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif!!

*phaser:* howdy doody /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*flownosaj:* He he

*frothy:* Hey hey. Still on holidays?


----------



## MR Bulk (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*Phaserburn said:*
Hotbeam Rocks!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

About binning - in my simple view, it seems to me that if a bin batch has up to 30% variance (I thought I read that somewhere?), I take that to mean 30% may have greater or less than the rated bin output. Well, that also means 70%+ does have the rated output, doesn't it? And if the variance is equally distributed above and below the rating, one could say 85% has the rated or less output. Hand selecting matters for the other 15%, but I guess what I'm saying is that while binning is no guarantee, I'd still like to take my chances and drive an X! Otherwise, we'd all be picking U bins still and saving money because it doesn't matter...? Comments welcome; clarification would be wonderful! 

[/ QUOTE ]

This quote was from PK himself and refers to variance in luminous flux output (thus the need to test each and every one). That 30% figure does not mean that out of a hundred, 30 will be dim and rest bright, instead it means the highest would test out at max spec (for frame of reference let's say 100 "lux" of brightness), and the rest could test at _varying_ lower flux levels, from 99 on down to 70 "lux". This also means 99 of them could test at max and just one could be as much as 30% dimmer, or -- _*vice versa*_...

Being these are mounted (and not sealed inside their little plastic filmstrips as in bare emitters) such testing would be very simple to accomplish.


----------



## Rothrandir (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

thanks paul /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

yes hotty, i'm still gone /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
should arrive home tomorrow afternoon though /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Many thanks for the orders and confirmations. Looks like all current parts have been spoken for for the first run of the MR-X, MR Hotlips and (MR). If there is any further interest, please post here... just in case someone drops off come payment time.

If you haven't told me already, please let me know your MR-X's OA2D colour choices (note multiple colour choices). Also whether you want the MR-X with both batteries and the 6AAtoD holder OR not (note 2 options only - with or without).

I will be building them in the coming weeks as the OA2Ds arrive...

Thanks for your support and welcome to the MR-X Club /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## tylerdurden (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hi,

Unfortunately, I somehow missed this thread until today. It seems I'm late to the party, but I'm interested in a MR Hotlips. If I'm reading correctly, to use the MR Hotlips I'd need an appropriate donor body (2D, or maybe 6D), an emitter, and battery holders (if I go with the 2D). Just epoxy the emitter, hook up the lead wires, and slam it in? Do I need any tools to disassemble the "OAC" body and get the hotlips module in? I'm not familiar with the "big" OAC lights - I only have the mini versions /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

tyler... all you need with a MR Hotlips is an OAD, emitter and battery/holder. MR Hotlips will not fit in an OAC. Use a 2mm allen key to undo the switch and you will have access to everything.

I will put your request down as a backup.


----------



## tylerdurden (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam,

Thanks. Should I send you a PM for your records?

Ah, I thought "OAC" was "Ontario Aluminum Corporation" - now I get it, "Ontario Aluminum, C-size". Still getting the hang of the "secret code." /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif A 2mm allen wrench is not a problem.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I don't think I made it clear in any of the above posts, the Direct Drive Indicator (DDI) LED will be siliconed from the outside so the whole light is still waterproof, just like as if it had come from the "factory" except *1000 times brighter! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif





*


----------



## branny (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Just wondering how easy it will be to remove the hotlips from the torch wrt the DDI LED being epoxied in, is it attached to the MR with wires with enough slack? Hope this makes sense /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Brandon.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

There are 10cm wires connecting the DDI LED to the Hotlips so there is plenty of room to remove the MR Hotlips safely to adjust the pot.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Update...

All MR's available for this order to-date have been assembled and/or kitted as per orders and forwarded to Hotbeam for installation into the brightest LED torch you will own to-date. This project is moving forward /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Won't be long now to burn those retinas /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Those X LED's are an awesome score by Hotbeam! Makes me feel giddy just thinking about it - 1.5A into an X LED! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Keep in mind, NiMH's are the best way to get the full 1.5A and as a bonus you'll get superb efficiency using these, Lithium's for runtime at reduced current (the batteries limitations) and Li-Ions for both runtime AND current. It's your choice at last!. I'd start buying the best NiMH's I could if I was you. They're the best compromise and available off-the shelf. It'll still work on alkaline's and even zinc carbon, but you won't get 1.5A as the batteries simply can't give 1.5A, not even with a Mag 2D packed full with them. As a bonus though, you'll get greater than 99% efficiency from the alkalines or zinc carbon (actually about 99.5%!), so it's as good as it gets /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. 






Chris


----------



## JonSidneyB (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

where has this thread been hiding? is there a list...I am sure the x's are all taken...if the x's are all gone, are there any non x's?


----------



## Kiessling (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

well, jsb, ditto.
if anything left, I'd be in.
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Jon and Kiessling... backup orders noted. Will advise if there are any left overs. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

thanx.
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*ITS OFFICIAL!!!*

Just completed 3 MR-X in black OA2D bodies and did the obligatory Lux test. And the result:

10,013 Lux at 1 meter running at 1.5A!!!

*The 10000 Lux barrier has been broken using a single 5W Luxeon LED!!!*


----------



## LukeK (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

That is a very impressive number for a white 5w. If I remember correctly, Wayne of EL built a cyan 5w DD and hit over 12,000 lux but that of course was not white light.
It seems these X3T's aren't simply bin code hype -- congratulations Howard! (That must be one heck of a bright light)


----------



## Rothrandir (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

amazing!!!!


----------



## jtice (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Now THATS bright /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
whooooooooo!


----------



## shankus (Aug 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I want to confirm my earlier email, with a post here. I'm definitely interested in a turn-key MR-X.

Looks like another run would sell, as well...


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ahhh, I got my LED Friday /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ....

Consistently getting between 11000 to 12000 lux @ 1 meter /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (depends on how much you shake as you look at the number). There were peaks hear and there over 12000, but a few-off un-repeatable peaks don't count in my book. The very slight increase over Hotbeams could well be the 2 different meters we are using or variation within the X grade window of lumen O/P's. In any case, anything anywhere near this is absolutely awesome for a white LED /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

*The 10,000 lux barrier has indeed been broken* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

That's two happy chappies, soon there will be more /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

Chris


----------



## MR Bulk (Aug 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Burnt, what meters are you and Howie using that register 5-digit readings? I think I need one.


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

shankus... OK and noted. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

burnt... What!!!! Did I give away my saved "one in a million" X3T by accident???? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Congratulations.

mr b... it think burnt has the same as mine. ***EDIT. he has a different one.


----------



## Alan (Aug 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam,

I hope it's not too late to orde one MR-X TK /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

Email sent.

Alan


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

MrBulk,

Re meters. It's a 4 digit (well, 3 1/2 ie 1999) set to the X10 range. The 4th digit is assumed to be 0 for values specified.

Chris


----------



## MR Bulk (Aug 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yeah thanks guys, I need to know what brand(s). My LM631 is actually three digits but set for X10 gives a four digit reading, would like to change to something that gives the 10,000+ readings such as yours. What brand is yours and Hotbeam's?


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Aug 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

MrBulk,

Mine is from Jaycar here in Aus. Hotbeams is from **** Smith, also here in Oz. A search of either site can perhaps reveal some more. Most of the domestic test gear we get here in Oz is from large manufacturers in Tiawan/China and is sold by many brand names all over the globe from only a few large manufacturing plants. It's just the way it works down on this side of the globe. All I can help with is the brands they decided to screen print onto the labels - Jaycar = Digitech, **** Smith = ? (Hotbeam will need to answer). It may well be available in US under adifferent brand name.

Re Hotbeams lux number, I suspect he might have meant 10130, not 10013. I'm not sure his is a 5 digit, but I may be corrected. Only he can answer.

Chris


----------



## hotbeam (Aug 31, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes, 4 digit readout. Figures corrected /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

The first lot of MR-Xes have left the "factory". PMs have been sent to those involved.


----------



## Glow Bug (Sep 2, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif No PM for me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 2, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Glow Bug,

Don't panic. Hotbeams burning the midnight oil getting all the TK's modded. Not even sure he has time to post a reply, hence my reply. It'll be soon, real soon. Hotbeam felt he needed to get these out ASAP as they are completed rather than have everyone wait in anticipation for any longer. If he reads your message I'm sure your's will be in the next mailing batch. I know how you must feel though. I hope you can understand that it takes time he doesn't have whilst holding a full-time job and there were more orders than expected. It has to be first come, first served to be fair.

Hotbeam will need a good sleep when this first run is done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif

Chris


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 2, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

sleep? WHAT?
no way! not after the second run for those who overlooked this!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 2, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Glowy... there is one with your name on it. Well actually, there WILL BE one with your name on it... as soon as some more OA2D's arrive /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Kiessling... You slave driver /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif.


----------



## Glow Bug (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I feel MUUUCH better now


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
just greedy, that's all, hotbeam.
greed transforms us into something different ... HAR HAR HAR !
bernhard


----------



## shankus (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MR-X with X3T... a Hotlips with Magic Resistor TK*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
***EDIT: You will need to modify a 6AAto2D battery holder to use NiMh on this light to drive at 1.5A 

[/ QUOTE ]

I read through the thread, and I didn't see any questions or explanation about this.

Why is this? NiMH should drive at 1.5A easier than alkalines...

How does it need to be modified?


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MR-X with X3T... a Hotlips with Magic Resistor TK*

Shankus... 

Originally I had plans for the MR-X to use 2 x 3AAtoD battery holders. When I went to use it with fresh NiMh, I found that resistive losses in the holder meant the light went into direct drive mode immediately. This was of course useless! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif 

This led to the selection of the 6AAto2D holder. Without modification, the contact between the two-springs and the actual holder meant that there would be losses still, albeit a lesser one. Also this meant you had to line up the battery holder with the spring contact each time you had to change batteries. This is of course not ideal when there is no light! 

The solution was to modify the 6AAto2D holder to have D-sized end caps on it so it can easily be loaded into the body anytime. The 6AAto2D holder in this configuration has much less resistive losses compared to 2 x 3AAtoD holders. I don't have figures right now to support this but practically this proved to be the case.

I am sure others have converted the 6AAto2D to the same configuration as what I have done. 

[ QUOTE ]

Why is this? NiMH should drive at 1.5A easier than alkalines...


[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure where you got the idea that alkalines would drive the light better" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif NiMhs are of course far superior. Only NiMh (or Li-ion) can drive at 1.5A constantly over the ~45+ minutes.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MR-X with X3T... a Hotlips with Magic Resistor TK*

2nd batch of OA2Ds just arrived. PMs and EMs sent to those involved.

Oh, just got wind that some lucky person (not me /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif) has picked up a nice batch of X3T jewels. Be prepared for more mods with the "X"


----------



## Rothrandir (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: MR-X with X3T... a Hotlips with Magic Resistor TK*

what about nicads? i know very little about batteries, but i was under the impression that nicads handled high drain better than nimhs. (like 50watts draw, for an mr16 mod /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: MR-X with X3T... a Hotlips with Magic Resistor TK*

Roth,

Hope I'm not stepping on Hotbeams toes here by answering, but nicads should work fine too. You can't get the same capacity as NiMH's for the same size cell and they are more prone to the memory effect - not a problem for a frequent user of the torch. I personally figure NiMH's are a better value for money option, especially given their capacity and the price gap between the two. If you happen to have some nicads then by all means use them, just don't expect anywhere near the runtime (@1.5A regulated) as a 2000mAh+ NiMH. If you are buying, go NiMH. Hotbeam has cycled his new 2000mAh NiMH's several times now and has reported times of 55 minute + before the DD LED comes on. The actual time anyone else will get of course depends on cell quality and health of the cell.

Chris


----------



## Glow Bug (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
Glowy... there is one with your name on it. Well actually, there WILL BE one with your name on it... as soon as some more OA2D's arrive /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



Just ordered twelve AA 2300 ma NiMhs from Battery Barn. 

"All I want for Christmas is my 2 burnt retinas" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

http://www.batterybarn.com/pro99.htm


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 
PayPal sent!
thanx!
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Roth... Burnt has spoken /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Burnt... Tanx

Glow Bug... Cycle those 2300mAh'ers a handfull of times before using it on the MR-X to get massive runtime /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif As per Burnt, I've been getting high 50's (minutes) in runtime with my 2000mAh NiMhs!!

Kiessling... Received and thanks.


----------



## Rothrandir (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

ahh, i guess i was thinking in terms of brutal power drain (mrx won't quite make it to 50watts i'm sure /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif), so the extra capacity of the nimhs over the brutal power of the nicads would be advantagous in this case /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Paypal finally sent! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*HotRetina MR-X Mini Review*

Now that *Mr. Bulk* has announced the end of the line for the Space Needle II, I've been a little sad. The end of an era, and though I already have my own SNII, I never like to see a great product disappear. But a nifty new pet from *Hotbeam* arrived with today's mail to help cheer me up. My very own *MR-X*! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

First of all it's a thing of beauty. Quite obviously there was much care put into building the thing. Then there's an air of the exotic; the padded wrapper around the light for protection during shipping features two cancelled Australian stamps. 

To get an idea of the MR-X, consider it an evolution of the whole SNII heritage. Start with a *benchmark-caliber* light (SNII), fatten it up a bit, slap some regulation into the little monster, and have the extreme good fortune to find an *X3T* emitter as a finishing touch. The result is a MR-X, which might as well be thought of as son of SNII! Looks like the heritage started by Mr. Bulk is in good hands.

I'm operating it at first using Elektrolumens 3x123 sleeve for 2D lights; I've found this to be a particularly high grade adapter. (My own parallel 2x3x123 adapter plus runtime tests to come later.) To my dismay, I discovered that Tekcells (at least the weaker, "bin 7.x" ones) just aren't up to the task of driving the regulator. That may change with the benefits of parallel drive. For now, though, Surefire's own SF123A cells are your best bet. 

Brightness of the light is a funny thing. Looking into the end of the torch (at an angle, so as not to go completely blind), it's obvious that this MR-X is horribly bright. Even at an angle, I was temporarily flash blind! (Think what camera flashes do to the eyes.) But against some stiff competition, the Space Needle II with fresh cells, some interesting things come to light (pun intended /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). 

For one thing, MR-X is hands down, absolutely the WHITEST light I have ever seen. It makes the SNII (formerly the champ) look yellow in comparison, any not by a little! We're talking yellow in the same way any LED light makes any incandescent look yellow. And the Surefire L4, widely hailed as being a benchmark of whiteness? Forget about it! The L4 looks positively blueish (as well as downright dim) compared to the MR-X. 

A-B tests between MR-X and SNII are tough to call as to which looks brighter. I suspect that on paper MR-X is clearly brighter, but down in the "proving ground," my basement crawl space, they both look about the same in brightness. Part of the discrepancy may be the SNII's "yellow" beam, which the eye perceives better, and part might simply be that our eyes operate in nonlinear fashion, and even a light 20% brighter might not look much different at all. (That 20% figure is for discussion's sake, not the result of any measurements.)

The bottom line, though, is which of these lights would I prefer to have, if I could keep only one... the MR-X or SNII? The MR-X is heavier and slightly bigger. On the other hand, it's at least as bright and a darned bit whiter, and may throw a little farther. Add to that the regulated output and the potential for longer runtimes by using parallel battery stacks, and I'd keep the MR-X. 

(Just my two cents at the moment, with more rigorous testing to follow. And don't get me wrong; if I didn't have either light and someone offered me a SNII I'd snap it up as fast as possible, and it would become the jewel of my collection. There could be no MR-X if SNII hadn't shown us what's possible! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif )

*Thanks Hotbeam, Burnt, and Mr. Bulk!* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Wow, a mini writeup already /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Thanks Milky.

Two cancelled Australian stamps? Oh well... at least you received it in good condition. Also, you'd be the first one in the US (on CPF anyway) with an X'er /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


If you can, make yourself a 6AAto2D holder, as per a few threads above, and you can experience it in the same setup as what I have been. Adequately cycled 2000mAh NiMh gave me ~58 minutes last night /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Very interested in your Li-ion source though. Burnt has done one and got ~65mins on it. 65mins (Li-ion) vs 58mins (NiMh) and the relative risks, ease of charge, size, weight... hmmm... the choice could very well be personal. 

I was extremely impressed when I powered up the MR-X builds. At the brightness level we are talking about with the MR-X (and SNII), a 10-20% increase from measurement readings would be difficult to distinguish by eye. 

Hey, if you don't find the MR-X bright enough at 1.5A (!!!), pump it up to 2A. You know you can /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, whenever you want to /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

For comparison, check out the current draw over time. You can extrapolate that roughly to approximate brightness over time. Of course, this is simplified. There are binning issues and heat dissipation issues /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Again, thanks kindly for your mini review.

3 x 123 V2T (pink line on graph below) was direct driving.


----------



## Glow Bug (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif This thing sounds SWEET! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif

Thanks Milky for the very informative review. <font color="green"> </font>


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Fly swatting, Aussie style* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just posted over in the cafe about an interesting event in my workday. Since it involves my new MR-X, thought you folks would enjoy it. Here's an excerpt...

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
Just for fun, I wondered if a short-range blast of my HotRetina MR-X (12,000 lux!) would bother him. He landed on my right hand, and slowly... ever so slowly... I moved the MR-X into position with the left... then... BAM! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif Direct hit with the hotspot of the beam.

Funny thing is the fly didn't move. In fact, as I moved my right hand around (remember, the fly was sitting on this hand), keeping the light focused on the fly all the while, he never once moved. It was as if all that light caused sensory overload, and the fly was dumbfounded...


[/ QUOTE ]

The full post is over here.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

What a laugh!! Was it a regular fly or ??? I hear the same thing works with rabbits. Rabbit (wild, classified as pests) hunting over here is done that way. Get a spotlight and shine it in their eyes. They are momentarily frozen... then kah-bang! Not that I condone that sort of activity.

Maybe I will try your trick on them and maybe, just maybe, they will just fall over when the MR-X hits their eyes. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Given that the MR-X shoots out 1.5A for over 45+mins, I could freeze the rabbit in its tracks and have a BBQ, watch a half hour of sit-com and then walk over there to put the rabbit in a cage /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, it looked like a typical fly to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif Next I'm gonna try giving one a little MR-X lovin' *while it's airborne*. This could be interesting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Rabbits!?! Years ago a friend of mine would drive around in his car, looking for deer... then use one of those 1 million CP spotlites to stun it. He thought that was pretty funny. Then again, the same person also thought it was cool to speed down ice-covered roads and suddenly pull his car's emergency brake.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/banghead.gif

Sorry about hijacking your thread! But at least it involved a MR-X... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, regarding your runtime graph, I'll be running on 2x2xPila 150S as soon as I get my battery adapter assembled; just got the endcaps in the mail... same mail as the MR-X, actually. Good timing! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

However, my experience so far with 3x123 doesn't match your graph at all. I've only got a total of about 15 minutes on my 123 cells so far, but they've been running in regulation *for the entire time*, which the graph would suggest shouldn't be happening. I will repeat what I said above, though, that only the Surefires are working, whereas the Tekcells were unable to stay in regulation. Maybe the 123 cells you graphed were either partially depleted or some brand that wasn't able to keep up, similar to what happened with the Tekcells?


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky... sorry about the confusion. My graph has not been labelled clearly. The 3 x 123 line (pink) was actually a direct drive setup. The yellow and black lines were those using the MR circuit. I have updated the graph. You may need to shift-reload the page/graph to see the clearer labels! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky, have you tried 2x150's yet (not all 4 in parallel)?


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

Please be aware that both the SNII and MRX (for short) I believe are both too bright for testing in a basement. Your pupils will adjust so the light of each will appear to be the same. This of course assumes you did a one-then-the-other type test. Even a back-to back test in such an environment would be misleading at such close range for the reasons you mention re perception of brightness vs colour. You've obviously realised this for yourself. 

For a 'real' comparison go out into a nice dark field like I do each night with the dog. It is so dark the pupils are fixed open. Here, the real difference will be noticed to the human eye. Every night I get a buzz watching the X grade LED at 1.5A light up the darkness. It really is awesome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. More like a searchlight than a LED torch!

Perhaps some outdoors throw tests would be in order? If I had an SNII (the obvious current top performer for LED torches) to compare with I'd do it myself, but I unfortunately don't. Mr Bulk must take credit here for producing what is in effect a reference standard to judge all others by.

I have to agree on the whiteness. This really is white. Not greenish, yellowish, bluish etc.....it is really white! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Not a torch to read a book by, unless you want to burn those retinas! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaser*, I was going to try 2x150S, but they were fitting *very* snugly in the EL battery adapter, so I didn't push them all the way in for fear that they'd get stuck! Oh well.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

*Chris*, you have a marvelous creation, of which you can be proud. Some nice engineering in MR-X! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I have to respectfully disagree about my basement. The house was built in the 1920s, which means the basement was dug by hand. (By my great grandfather, in fact.) The significance of this is that most of the house does *not* have basement under it, but only a crawlspace! The crawlspace extends the entire length of the house and features lots of dark nooks and crannies, jagged rocks, and a fieldstone wall at the far end. It truly is a "proving ground" for flashlights. Don't think in terms of a room in a house, think in terms of shining the light into a *shooting range*.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

It turns out to be a great place to get a sense of a light's total brightness, which complements the throw testing I do outside. (Which is why I only speculated on the throw itself in my review.) I've tested most of my lights in the "proving ground" with results entirely consistent with outdoor observations for total brightness.

That said, *I did take the contenders outside* in the wee hours of the morning for additional testing. The MR-X does indeed *outthrow* the SNII (as previously speculated), but only *by perhaps 10 meters*. (Very roughly, we're talking 100M for the MR-X, 90M for the SNII.) Note that I'm speaking in terms of the distance each light allows me to see objects clearly enough to recognize them. I repeated the test a few times, with consistent results. You may be underestimating the capabilities of the SNII! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif (At least with fresh batteries, since the SNII is unregulated.)

As I said before, though, forced to choose one light or the other, I would keep the MR-X for exactly the same reasons noted in my review. It's a great piece of machinery! (...bundle of photons?) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
*Burnt_Retinas said:*
Every night I get a buzz watching the X grade LED at 1.5A light up the darkness. It really is awesome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. More like a searchlight than a LED torch!


[/ QUOTE ]

I would have to agree completely with this description. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

[ QUOTE ]
*Burnt_Retinas said:*
Not a torch to read a book by, unless you want to burn those retinas! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Is that how you burnt yours? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ahhhh... your basement is indeed a good place for testing. I must admit when you mentioned about testing the lights in your basement, I also thought that it would not be a good place to do such a test... having thought the basement was only A ROOM when in fact you have a DRIVING RANGE under your house. How long is the longest path from basement entrance to the furthest wall?

~100m vs ~90m!!! Dang, these are fantastic distances for both lights.

We are looking at doing a night walk at a local National Park... as soon as all the MR-Xs have been built /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif That would be awesome to check out multiple MR-Xs in action /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

MR and MR Hotlips wiring points for all those with them....






Note, looking at a FET so you can read the writing and having the leads facing towards you, the leads from left to right are gate, drain, source.

Circuit to come for all those home brewers. I'm just waiting for Hotbeam to close off the first run of the project.

Chris


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

We mustn't forget Hotbeam here. I just did the boards and fitted them to Hotlips. The module was then carefully crafted into the MRX masterpiece it is by Hotbeam. You have Hotbeam to thank for making the torch available to all CPF'ers.

Re basement, I visualized it as a large room. I wasn't aware you had such space under there. It sounds a bit like the Batcave. Hand crafted from the earth itself!. Is where you park the Batmobile? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, the basement plus crawlspace runs the entire length of the house; we don't live in all that big a house, but still we're talking roughly 35-40 feet. (Let's say 12 meters.) It's not just the distance, though. Often I'll stand at the edge of the crawlspace, which is perhaps a little more than half the overall distance, and do A-B tests shining the lights directly into the crawlspace. Most of the things in the crawlspace are darker in color and dull in texture (dirt, fieldstone, very old, darkened beams), so it becomes like a flashlight torture test. Even with bright lights, there is no glare in my eyes that might disturb my vision, and lots of light that goes into the crawlspace is absorbed, never to return. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

This works well to get a sense of total light output. If I shine a floodlight into the crawlspace (example: SL ProPoly 4AA 7 LED), the far wall will barely be illuminated at all, but the entire near area of the crawlspace will be illuminated nicely. At the opposite extreme, a light with pencil thin beam (example: UKE 4AA xenon diving light) will illuminate the far wall in the crawlspace nicely but only a small area to the sides. A very powerful light with a mix of throw and flood, like both MR-X and SNII, will illuminate the entire crawlspace relatively evenly, more due to dispersion caused by all the weird surfaces than due to the lights themselves.

One key reason the crawlspace works is that the entire area remains within my field of vision, and it really does cause light to bounce around a lot. Therefore, it becomes possible to get a sense of total light output even for lights with different beam patterns.

Does this make any sense? It does work, but I may not have explained very well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*Burnt_Retinas said:*
Milky,

We mustn't forget Hotbeam here. I just did the boards and fitted them to Hotlips. The module was then carefully crafted into the MRX masterpiece it is by Hotbeam. You have Hotbeam to thank for making the torch available to all CPF'ers.

Chris 

[/ QUOTE ]

Not what I intended at all. As I said in the review, MR-X is a thing of beauty. And what I meant in the more recent post is that the regulator circuitry, which we don't generally get to see, is well engineered as well. My hat's off to *both* of you. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

You hear that, Hotbeam? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

One interesting way to compare the throw of two lights is to find a straight stretch on a road that has reflective side lines painted along it. Here in the States such lines are white, and I have the good fortune of living along exactly such a straight stretch, with the further blessing that night traffic on the road is almost nonexistent. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Take the lights to your designated road, and one at a time, shine them along one of the lines of reflective paint with the goal being to illuminate the paint as far down the road as possible. Make a mental note of where the visible line ends for one light, then try the same thing with the other light. It ends up like reading the bar on a traditional fever thermometer! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif It also makes the difference in throw easy to see.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Burnt... Thanks for posting the diag.

Milky... I'm glad you have access to both the basement and the highway test "facilities". I really like the highway reflector test except around here, there is a bit of traffic unless I wait till 4-5am. May have to try that sometime /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

The second batch of MR-Xs have just been shipped. Those with orders have been PM'ed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

How many MR-X's are there? What's the count?


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

When all first run MR-Xes have been shipped, there will be a very exclusive ~15 of us out there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif, excluding my personal one (which HASN'T EVEN BEEN BUILT YET) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

How hot are the MRXs getting, during these extended runtimes?


----------



## Glow Bug (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*Burnt_Retinas said:*
Glow Bug,

Don't panic. Hotbeams burning the midnight oil getting all the TK's modded. Not even sure he has time to post a reply, hence my reply. It'll be soon, real soon. Hotbeam felt he needed to get these out ASAP as they are completed rather than have everyone wait in anticipation for any longer. If he reads your message I'm sure your's will be in the next mailing batch. I know how you must feel though. I hope you can understand that it takes time he doesn't have whilst holding a full-time job and there were more orders than expected. It has to be first come, first served to be fair.

Hotbeam will need a good sleep when this first run is done /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif

Chris 

[/ QUOTE ]

Glowbugs much happier today. Received PM today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Will soon be one of the ~15 club /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

No more /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

They are mildly warm after about a ~10-15 minute run and at the 58min mark, it is is notificably warmer at the grip area. It is warmer at the head (obviously) than at the tail. *At no time does it get hot.* You will also note the generous amount of white thermal goop around the threading at the head to aid the transfer of heat from the body. 

PS. Your silver OA2D is in /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Give me ~1 wk.


----------



## shankus (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Grrrrrrooooovvvvyyyy!

I was wondering, because my Megaclops only gets warm, as well. Initially, it runs at around ten watts, and goes down from there.
I was wondering, because the MRX runs consistently at more than 10 watts.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

The proof is in the pudding... let me know in about 2 weeks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Glow Bug,

I hope you like your X package. An X at 1.5A it's damn good. If you want maxi brightness for shorter times (limited only by battery, not thermal concerns), crank the pot up. It's the beauty of this. It's all your choice. Battery choices and brightness. I recommend for 'real' usage though that you keep it at 1.5A. It'll then last you until the next LED technology jump by whomever...Lumileds or Nichia.

Shankus,

Keep in mind the warmer the torch, the better the thermal transfer from LED to torch body. This is a good thing! If you run 10W and the torch is cold, then the LED will probably be cooking! The Mag D has a lot of aluminium, particularly in the head, so with good thermal contact and the given Mag body and head surface area, it really can handle continuous use. Please don't be afraid to burn this torch 'till the batteries flattens.....then just recharge and away you go again. It is a torch begging to be used!

Thermally, only premium options are used such as Arctic Silver epoxy for the LED and premium Bergquist thermal insulation for Hotlips to Mag so it can be removed as nearly all wanted (AS was intended).

Chris


----------



## branny (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Wooohoooo!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just got my MR-X today!

First Impressions: BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT! I got splotchy afterimages during the day just from looking at the spill light. When I switched it on at night I literally let loose an evil laugh: BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Kind of like an evil scientist when he reveals his doomsday device. Focussed correctly it throws a perfect disk of white light surrounded by a great spill. Outside (the only real place to test it)it lit up very clearly a tree about 80M away. The only other light I own which even comes close in brightness is a 500,000 candlepower spotlight, and it makes that look sickly yellow. It also lit up the tree much better, evenly lighting most of it where the spotlight threw a central hotspot surrounded by concentric rings, making it much harder to define what you were seeing. 

Not having owned a 5W before, I'm not sure how it compares to others (I do have an L4 on the way..we'll see), but compared to my Arc LS the beam QUALITY is much better, pure white, making my LS look green (it normally looks fine). 

On runtime I got about 45-50 minutes on 1800Mah NiMh's before the DD LED lit. I'll measure runtime more accurately another time. The head did get quite warm for me after about 20 Min., you could still hold it by the head, but I wouldn't call it comfortable. The body however only got mildly warm.

I'll have to see if I can take some beamshots soon, can anybody offer me somewhere to host my images?

Brandon.

PS I just noticed I'm no longer a newbie!! Appropriate timing!


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
When all first run MR-Xes have been shipped, there will be a very exclusive ~15 of us out there /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif, excluding my personal one (which HASN'T EVEN BEEN BUILT YET) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif 


[/ QUOTE ]

Does this mean we can all call outselves "X-men"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Last night I did some runtime tests using a single stack of Pila 150S cells (in other words, 2x150S in an EL 3x123 adapter tube). Still to come is my own 2x3x123 adapter running with Pila 150S cells, mostly because I fell asleep before assembling the adapter. Oops. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Results with the single stack were a mixed bag. With the first pair of 150S cells, the DD indicator lit after only 90 seconds. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif However, the Li-Ion cells continued to deliver serious brightness for 1 hour! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif At the 1 hour mark, brightness appeared to be a little less than half that initially, and was still highly useful. Over the next 15 minutes the brightness dropped to that of a 1-watt LS. At the end of the test (1 hour 15 minutes elapsed time) the Li-Ion cells were measuring 3.04V each under no load, and were delivering 0.20A while running in the light. Other than the early appearance of the DD indicator, this test run was impressive.

Keep in mind that on paper, these Li-Ion cells only provide 1000mAh capacity to MR-X, which is half (or even less) the capacity delivered by the NiMH. So they did quite well, all things considered! I'm optimistic about the parallel scenario.

The second pair of Li-Ion cells was also a mixed bag. This time the DD indicator didn't appear until 15 minutes into the run. At the outset the cells were measuring 4.06V each under no load, and were delivering 1.49A while running in the light. At 21 minutes the cells were delivering 1.13A while running in the light. *But* at 46 minutes the cells were delivering only 0.18A while running in the light, and shortly thereafter MR-X abruptly shutdown completely! I feared that my light had somehow blown, but apparently one of the 150S cells had caused the shutdown. After the run these cells measured 3.35V and 2.23V under no load; the latter voltage is suspiciously low, which might indicate that the cell was either weaker at the outset or is somehow defective. Sorry Phaserburn. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Oddly enough, the light output from the cells was quite good until the abrupt shutdown.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

I've recharged all four 150S cells and am preparing for the parallel run.

*shankus*, if we define "warm" as "not too hot to touch," then the flashlight got quite WARM during my runtime testing, but never HOT. The entire flashlight got noticeably warm, but the part from the switch forward, including the head itself, was substantially warmer than the battery tube. Peak housing temperature was reached somewhere at the 20-30 minutes runtime point. As Burnt said, we would actually *want* to see the housing get warm because it means the heatsinking is working properly. I'll add that anyone who doesn't want the housing to get warm could have the MR-X tuned for 1.0A output instead of the "factory" setting of 1.5A. My experiences with MR-X show that it's still way bright (still in the same league as SNII) at 1.0A.

I should mention that this round of runtime testing had the light sitting upright, candle style, in a *Craig Johnson LED Museum semi-trademark "toilet paper holster."* (In other words, the light was held upright by sitting in the opening at the middle of a roll of toilet paper turned on its side.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif This means my hand wasn't helping at all in the heatsinking; in fact, the toilet paper was probably acting as an insulator. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Temperatures encountered were therefore more extreme than they would be if someone had been holding the light during its run.


----------



## shankus (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*Does this mean we can all call outselves "X-men"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

(X-Man shankus?)
Thanks Hotbeam, I'm _really_ looking forward to it.


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

2 of the Pila cells are brand new, and the other 2 have only 3 charges on them. So, they may not be up to holding their total capacity yet, and may improve after a few more charge/discharge cycles. I seem to remember from somewhere that rechargeables need "exercise" from their new state to get the stated capacity from them.

As the cells seem to be delivering a substantial current for a considerable length of time, the parallel holder (4x150) may hold great promise. Thoughts?


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*branny:* Glad you got it today /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Yeah, don't look into the light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif. You'll literally go blind /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif What? You're comparing the MR-X with a 500k CP spot light??? 45-50mins is excellent on your NiMh. They look like nicely cycled batteries. If you can get some 2000, 2100 or 2300 pieces and cycle them, the results would be very nice indeed.

*MiIky:* X-men? Hmmmm.... too gimmicky. How about MRXers? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Eg. Calling all MRXers? 
[ QUOTE ]
However, the Li-Ion cells continued to deliver serious brightness for 1 hour!"

[/ QUOTE ]
That seems to have the same characteristics as the L91s! Flat discharge curve for a long time... even though it couldn't do 1.5A. _Remember when the DDI comes on, it just means the LS is not getting 1.5A._ As you found, it kept on delivering good current for a long time after that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Your differing Li-ion results seem surprising. As Phaserburn said, perhaps they require a bit of cycling first before their true colours come out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif. The abrupt shutdown.... as you said, sounds like a battery issue. Burnt, what do you think?

Your heat experiences are very similar to what we have been experiencing. Bare in mind that we just finished winter here (2nd wk of spring now) and our temperatures have been around 16-17C during the day and ~10C when work and testing is done in the lights, ie. past 9pm /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*Phaser:* Sounds like a cycling is required /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

One of the great features of the MR is, of course, the ability to dial the amps setting to what you want, from 0 to 3A. A question: what additional output in lux to you get for this extra incremental power? Hotbeam's 10k+ readings were at 1.5A. How much do you gain/lose as you go from 700ma (spec), to 1A, to 1.25A, past 1.5A, to 1.75A, etc. Mostly I am interested in settings between spec and 1.5A. I am wondering what the benefits in brightness are vs. runtime. I thought (hoped) someone with a light meter and several MR's might be able to, ahem, shed some light on a topic I've been very curious about for a long time. I would think this would be of prime interest to all modders out there in CPFLand! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Branny,

I'm glad you like it. When you get an L4 it would be nice to hear you opinions when comparing. It's only when you know where you are at you can decide which direction to go.

As mentioned, a warm torch is good. The heat is getting transferred from the LED to atmosphere via torch.

For images, try as I and many others here do, use:

http://www.imagestation.com/member/join_mypictures.html

It's free, and it works. Stick them in your 'bin' (default upload images storage area), copy the pic URL by checking properties and paste URL (minus any info past .jpg) into CPF after selecting "Image" from "Instant UBB Code" available when you click "Reply" to a message.

Milky,

Seems a single set of Pilas can't quite handle the 1.5A. A parallel set would of course give very different results.

Re heat comments, you're spot-on. Got to get rid of that heat from the LED. Additionally, I can assure you under your drive conditions (DD LED on) around on 99.5% of the heat is from the LED. The MR will be 'loosing' only about 50 milliwatts maximum in this condition, including the circuit current (not including DD LED - about 10mA). The rest of any losses, to balance the numbers, are the resistive connections of battery contacts, Mag switch contacts, the DD LED etc. We really are getting down to increasingly insignificant numbers here. All that heat you got under your test conditions really is from the LED, hence the Mag body/head being almost a necessity due to size and surface area as this torch was intended for full-on use at 1.5A.

Phaserburn,

Only done run-time tests at differing currents, not lux. I would guess based on the characteristics of the LED, at 700mA to 750mA drive, 2AH NiMH's etc you could expect approximately 2 hours runtime with say a lux reading in the ball-park of 5000 to 6000 lux at 1m. It's a guess however!

Perhaps a test to come as you suggest to confirm. This sort of lux reading is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. It's still VERY bright at these levels, better than anything less than an X grade LED at spec (of course) and for a 2hr run-time torch using readily available and cheap rechargable batteries, it's a winner.

Chris


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Lithiums Improving*

I ran the first pair of Pila 150S Li-Ion cells through the MR-X again a couple hours ago. This was the pair I previously reported as activating the DD indicator after only 90 seconds. This time the result was somewhat different. The DD indicator didn't activate until 21 minutes had elapsed, and all told, the light was mega bright until somewhere around the 44 minute mark, at which point it went into a slow, steady rundown of diminishing output. At the 1 hour mark the light output was markedly less than that of my LGI, but still useful enough for emergency use, like finding the path back to camp when in the woods. I ended the test at this point, so I'm not sure how long the low-level output would have continued.

These batteries have a rated capacity of 1000mAh, and this particular result seems the most consistent so far both with lithium battery chemistry, and with the stated capacity of the cells. Like typical lithium cells, they delivered a long run of high output, and the rundown curve was very flat (in other words, staying at high output for a long time) until deep into the discharge cycle. On paper, these cells would deliver an estimated 40 minutes runtime assuming level output, so in practice this particular run matched the theory closely. The big surprise was the lingering low-level light at the end, sort of like a poor man's moon mode! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif That was a nice touch.

Also, as speculated by Phaserburn and others, clearly these cells are performing better as they continue to cycle. I'll try to run each pair through a total of three cycles before performing the "big" test, the 2x2x150S.

*Edit:* Similar story with the rerun of the second pair of Pila 150S cells. This time it took 23 minutes to activate the DD indicator, and mega bright output continued until the 44 minute mark, with gradual diminishment (is that a word?) thereafter.


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Aaah, progress! Fire away, Milky! Li-ions can be charged as often as you like without adverse reaction. In fact, they like to be recharged often and before they are on complete empty. But in the Pilas, their circuitry watches out for that. I am curious to see if the total of 4 150 cells at once does in fact equal more than the sum of 2 2x150 runs.


----------



## shankus (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*





, a few minutes ago, for the turnkey MR X.

Soon, I will be one of the X-Men. I will go into Milky's Batcave, and come out, an X-Man. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Just to give you a snapshot of the MR-X build /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Shankus, PP received. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Glow Bug (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Who gets the silver one???

Thats some serious photons in the makin! You make em and we'll feed em


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Glowy, it could have been yours /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif Anyhow, yours left on the 8th Sept /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

What a clean and organized work area. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

On a work table like that, a guy could be a part of making the brightest LED flashlight on the planet, I bet.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif Oh, that's right, I forgot. 

That's probably my silver pet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif 

("Tonight, you pukes will sleep with your torches! You will give your torches a girl's name!")


----------



## shiftd (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

dang
that is a neat workplace you got there and a big table 
i envy you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## LEDmodMan (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Not long now Leddy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Slight delay at the CNC shop for the Hotlips-C and D. Soon as it is done, will EM you.


----------



## IsaacHayes (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Here is an idea that I plan on eventually doing, whenever I have the funds /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif and whenever I get my other mods done (still pending parts). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

*Use a 3D mag, with a 12-AA NiMH power-pack.* You'd have long run time of at least *2.5 Hours.* You'd hook up two packs in parallel of 6AA's in series. (took me a while to word that) 

So you'd have twice the runtime of a normal 6AA pack in a 3D package. You could even machine a rechargeble plug into tailcap if you were so talented.
But, I'd probably just drop the stick out (which I would heat shrink) and put into a PVC pipe that would holde it for re-charging. Power it with a radioshack 7.5v 500ma power adapter and your good to go!

_A 3D sized mag isn't too big to carry. Hell people use them for 1W mods, so why not have a 5w that runs for a long time? The perfect high-powered utility & search light!_

The Mr-X is perfect for this setup. Why? Well you got tons of current avalible, and if you were making such a nice setup it'd be nice to protect your luxeon and make a perfect light. Plus you'd probably want to hang on to this, and swap other luxeons in as they improve. The removeable Mr-X and the mounting pedistal makes it easy to remove the luxeons. Hell you could even have spade terminals on the wires so when you remove the Mr-X you just disconnect from the mag switch and then set it on your work bench! No soldering required!

There's my idea. Feel free to build it! I'll just drool at it.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes, it is true; I am an X-Man! Let the groveling begin! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I rule!! Bwahahahaaaaa!

Oooookay, let me reign it in a bit. I did, in fact, get my silver MR-X today. Just came in from the night after the maiden burn!

Output. Simply, extreeemely white, and easily the brightest LED light I've ever seen, period, The End. The throw is very impressive for an led; not quite AS tight as an incan, but it nicely illuminates objects 200 yds away. And it does this with a decent sized hotspot, not a laser beam. I think one of the most amazing things about this light is the spill. At a range of around 20ft, my Arc LSHP hotspot was almost undetectable in the MRX spill, not the beam itself! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/huh.gif Only some motion with the LSHP let it's presence be known.

Runtime. Using SF 3x123's in a EL 3x123 to 2D holder, I got 29 minutes of regulation 1.5A before I saw the little red led directly in front of the switch come on. I didn't go further than that, as I wanted to come in and share with you.

Heat. Yep, it gets toasty, but not hot. At the end of regulation time the entire body was pretty warm. At no time was the head and "neck" area too warm to hold, or so warm that I worried about the LS. Plenty of AL in this here mod! Hotlips, indeed. When combined with the Burnt Sleeve, heat is transferred quite well away from the LS and into the entire Mag 2D body.

Odd. When shined at moths from almost any range, they fluttered a bit and then started spiralling in towards the earth, like a fighter plane that's been hit by AA fire. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Once they reached the ground area, they started making their way towards the light at a rapidly increased speed; I had to move out of the way and avert the MR-X to avoid them! I repeated this on half a dozen unwilling test subjects. Strange, no?

Fit and Finish. Hotbeam and Burnt have done A+ work. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif The mod appears amazingly professional. It could easily have come from a OEM box. The LS is perfectly centered in the Maghead. The red DD indicator led is just a nub over flush with the body, so that it may be found with a finger in the dark. It rests in a drilled hole that has no marks on the body surrounding it or even a hint of a rough edge. Even the tailcap turns extremely easily; either it was lubricated prior to shipping or I got very lucky compared to the many other Mag D products I've seen. Overall, let me just say that if you get a chance to purchase a Hotbeam-Burnt Offering (?!), take it. I would gladly endorse them as Top Modders. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Duh. I, in my infinite wisdom, just HAD to look into the reflector at least once (don't laugh; I KNOW you do this) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif. Well, after literally staggering around my front yard for around 5-10 seconds, I decided that my MR-X was indeed a) On, and b) Bright. I couldn't see anything except that big X sun that wouldn't go away even with my eyes closed. Points off for poor form.


----------



## IsaacHayes (Sep 11, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hahah you blinded the moths!! they couldn't see and tumbled to the ground! My 1W illumalux doesn't attract moths, I guess the 5w really has a lot of output then to attract bugs!
One thing about the tailcap. When using those 6aa holders, they are shorter than 2D's. That is good as the spring on the tail cap goes all the way in the body tube before the threads catch. Easier to put on the tailcap. Normal 2D's the spring has to be compressed at least 1/4" before you can thread it, making it very difficult.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Congrats Phaser. Now try fly hunting with your MR-X! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You'll have your Pilas back soon. I'm hoping to do the "big test" by this weekend, so you can enjoy your "free" power source by sometime next week! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

200 yards! Woooooooooo hoo! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## alanhuth (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

If any more MR-Xs (turnkey) become available, I WANT ONE. Paypal waiting patiently.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Isaac:* Good idea with the 2 x 6AA NiMh. You will get a hell of a runtime! 3D size... well, if you intend on carrying a light, it is not big at all. If you wanted something handy then.... perhaps a smaller FF is better /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

*Phaser:* 200 yards? Wow if it is!! 3 x SF123 at 29mins is quite good. After that you'd probably get another ~1.5 hrs of light with the DDI on. Yeah, if you used 3 x 123 = 9v, you'd be bound the get more heat. Remember this is a loss-loss circuit. Try using 2 x 3.6V Li-ions and you'd feel nothin'. Well... probably not nuthin' but much less heat than with the 3 SF123s. Using 6 NiMh would also be much cooler than with the 3 SF123s. The closer your Vs is to Vf, the cooler it will be... as long as your Vs can sustain the 1.5A current drive above Vf. Moths? You guys!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Oh, DON'T LOOK INTO THE LIGHT. Did I say that already? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

*Alanhuth:* Your request noted /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Run 2 will eventuate pending availability of components, the magical X3T and time. Keep your eye on this thread for updates.


----------



## Likebright (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam,
This sounds great! Please put me in line for one MR-X.
Thanks.
Mike /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

likebright... done! As soon as all 3 constraints can be mastered, run 2 will start /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

An observation: after the red DD led comes on, the light output doesn't noticeably dim like you might expect from a light falling out of regulation. This suggests that there may be a mah "sweet spot" somewhere in overdriving a 5W, with incremental returns afterwards as you continue to increase current. Ok, I don't know if it really suggests that, but I'm thinkin' it! Very much looking forward to mah vs. lux tests; one of the next biggest steps for building a better mod.


----------



## Glow Bug (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam and Burnt Retinas, this is one nice, bright light! I live in the middle of a National Forest where it WAS dark. Not anymore:.) 

Anyone who is priviliged to own one of these lights can attest to their superior whiteness and brighness. Thanks Hotbeam for giving me a chance to be one of the X_MEN

I can't imagine a more whiter light than this. I have six 5 watt lights and compared with the MR.X....well there is no comparison


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*All*, regarding variations in the housing of MR-X, we shouldn't overlook the MagCharger as a candidate. It's basically the same design as a 2D Ontario Aluminum (OA) but a little longer to accommodate a 7.2V rechargeable NiCd cell. It also has the charging capability built-in, including a nice clip-on wall charger. And someone (batterystation?) can make an alternate NiCd cell for that light using special "robot wars" cells with both higher capacity *and* higher continuous current delivery, actually far beyond the 1.5A that MR-X needs. At 2500mAh or so at high current output, these battery packs could power MR-X for an *estimated 1 hour 40 minutes*.

It's also worth mentioning that the same "robot wars" cells could be built into an 8.4V battery pack that *might* squeeze into an OA 3D housing. The 8.4V rather than 7.2V might allow longer operation before falling into direct drive. Of course, it might also increase the heat generated.

Personally, I like the OA 2D form factor, but wanted to mention these possible alternatives for those out there who might find them appealing. There are certainly arguments to be made in their favor!


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaser:* I wonder how long you waited after the DDI LED came on? Perhaps the perception of light output at that end of the runtime is clouded by the fact that it had been so bright for sooo long and any incremental decrease in output cannot be seen.... just like when YOU LOOKED STRAIGHT INTO THE LIGHT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif and anything and everything else you see after that would seem just as bright? Ramble off. Yes, the *AMP vs LUX* test is coming very soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


*Glowy:* He he... and he said "LET THERE BE LIGHT!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Dang! You're a very lucky flashaholic living in the middle of a National Forest. Just don't you go starting bush fires with the MR-X /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Hey, have you tried putting a magnifying glass in front of the MR-X and see the result?? _White light... well, so far Lumiled's binning code has been accurate on the batches of MR-Xes that have gone out. Hopefully there are no X*2*T or X*4*T graded LS mixed in amongst the X*3*T binned ones. If there is, I must apologise (on their behalf)... It is still still however a MR-*X*. The extra brightness should make up for the the binning sloppiness._


*Milky:* Ahhh... the OACharger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Good option to keep in mind for super runtime right out of the box. 
[ QUOTE ]
The 8.4V rather than 7.2V might allow longer operation

[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm... as long as the 8.4V one has a higher mAh rating /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## FlashlightOCD (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Please add my name to wait list for run #2.

Thanx.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
*Milky:* Ahhh... the OACharger /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Good option to keep in mind for super runtime right out of the box. 
[ QUOTE ]
The 8.4V rather than 7.2V might allow longer operation

[/ QUOTE ]
Ummm... as long as the 8.4V one has a higher mAh rating /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the "robot wars" cells do have a bit higher mAh rating than the stock OACharger cells, but that wasn't what I was getting at. I was referring to the discharge curve itself, which honestly I'm not so familiar with for NiMH. I was thinking that 7.2V under load might get pulled down to something like 6.8V, and once the cells are partially discharged they might drop below Vf itself. (What's the Vf of these X3T's, anyway?) My reasoning was that 8.4V would give enough "headroom" in the voltage to accommodate some voltage sag and remain in regulation.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ahhh.... misread you. Slightly higher voltage source, coupled with more mAh would indeed be a nice option. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif The first couple of X3T's I measured gave me 6.69v at the start and 6.31v just after the DDI LED came on. 8.4v unloaded volts would definately come in handy compared with 7.2!


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Phaserburn's not crazy! I took my MR-X in one hand and my Vector 2MCP Sport Spotlight in the other, and headed outside! Yes, the Vector was brighter, but the MR-X is essentially on the borderline of that class of brightness. Yikes!

Let me explain. When I shine both across a large field, I honestly can't see any farther with the Vector than I can with MR-X. I define how far I can see as the farthest object I can identify, so even if the Vector shoots a beam farther, it doesn't help me see what's that far away any better.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Shining both along a straight stretch of road and observing the reflective paint line like a bar on a traditional fever thermometer, it's clear that the Vector has more throw than MR-X. But again, in actual *use* of the lights, the difference between the two isn't nearly so obvious, nor so useful.

Meanwhile, of course, MR-X is smaller, lighter, easier to carry or stuff into a coat pocket, has double the battery life, has a MUCH MUCH WHITER beam, runs MUCH COOLER, takes a variety of commonly available cells if I want it to, gives me FAR more warning of failing batteries, emits light sooner after pushing the power button, recharges MUCH more quickly, and can survive rougher treatment. Hmm... what to use, what to use...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*FlashlightOCD:* Recorded for run #2 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Milky:* "Meanwhile, of course, MR-X is..." sounds like an advert if I ever heard one. SOLD! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Oh, here are some photos of the last batches of the MR-X run #1 build. If I was an escaping crim, I'd give up straight away! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif










*And the cooks line up... "who can we fry next?" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif*


----------



## shankus (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Can it be that the second one, in the bottom photo is....*My Precious*!? 

Yes yes, we wants to _shine_ our Precious...


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
Phaserburn's not crazy! 

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I looked in the wrong end of the MR-X, after all!

The more I use this light, the more I like it!


----------



## this_is_nascar (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I want one... I want one... I want one...


----------



## shankus (Sep 14, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Perhaps they're all Popes. They all have funny hats...


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 15, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*shankus:* EM sent.

*phaser:* How often do you use it? You mean you actually have a day-to-day for it? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

*nascar:* EM replied. On run #2 list /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*shankus:* Chef's hats /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif They are retina cookers!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 15, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes, I use it several times/wk. I have a special place in my lights arsenal for a very bright 2D/3D form factor. It is used for evening walks with my family, around 30+ mins each. I live in a rural area without streetlights. Lots of trees and hilly terrain. I certainly intend to use it for it's functionality; no dusty trophy light here! This is why the ease (hopefully) of Pila cells appeals so much to me. I want to stay in regulation at 1.5A all the way! As we start from my home, the form factor is fine (doesn't need to be pocketable, etc) and throw is a plus.


----------



## jdriller (Sep 15, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I just got my MR X, and what can I say that hasn't been said already. This is the whitest, most technically advanced mod that I own. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The hot lips sinks the heat amazingly, and the direct drive indicator gives you notice when you are in DD. The workmanship is superior as well as the shipping and packaging.

Everything that everyone has said is true. This is a superior light.

Excellent work by Hotbeam and Burnt Retinas.

Thanks /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Sep 15, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I got my MR-X today!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif
This light is awesome. It completely blows away every other light I own. I will test it against my father's 500,000 CP spotlight in a little while. I love this light so much! It will be mine until they pry it from my cold, dead fingers!!!


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I just compared my MR-X to my father's 500,000 CP spot light. The spotlight throws farther thanks to an insanely tiny beam, but up to about 100 yards, the MR-X lights things up much better thanks to it's snow white light. The hotspot on the MR-X is roughly 3 times the size of the spotlights when the beam is focussed to the narrowest it can go. The spill light is also noticably more intense than the spotlight's. This light is also a real beauty! I am afraid to get my precious dirty! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Yes, my precious and I have some neighbors to scare with flashes of pure, white light! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thanks jdriller and pi /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif 

The MR-X has been a combination of much experience (Mr Bulk /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif), clever design and use of overkill components of the Magic Resistor (Burnt_Retinas /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif), help in design of the heatsinking Hotlips (Roth /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif), much dexterity (those early hours drilling, siliconing, modding battery holders, etc..) and luck (and skill /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) in getting those spwecial X3Ts!!! 


*jdriller:* Hope it gives you many many hours of nighttime light.

*pi_is_blue:* Enjoy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif If you want some heat, stick in some L91 Lithiums /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Otherwise NiMh (or Li-ion... see Phaser/Milky) will keep you running and running and running.


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I love using NiMHs in this light because I can play with it as much as I like without worrying about burning through expensive batteries! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Pi*, great review. Thanks for the info! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One thing I've noticed lately is that a 3x123 configuration works *GREAT* for using the light a few minutes at a time. When used this way, the 123 cells have a chance to "catch their breath" between uses, and MR-X keeps running in regulation night after night... after night. Outstanding! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Homebrew (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

It was like Christmas in September, I just received my Silver MR-X X3T 5 Watter! Wow, this surely is the Brightest and Whitest single 5 Watter I have ever seen. Hotbeam has put togeather one of the finest crafted mods I have seen to date. This thing is beautiful and could classify as a work of art. The optics are PERFECT, Howard really pays attention to detail. By the way, you do need an arc welders hood to look into this thing! 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

My latest lame-brain idea, is to put one of these blinking/flashing Red-Green-Blue LEDs in the MR-X, as the Direct Drive indicator (if it will work).





"Pimp-Daddy MR-X ??"

What do you guys think? Is it too disco? Too "pimpish"?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I seem to remember reading a post that said the DD indicator is driven at 10 mA. Is that right?


----------



## Rothrandir (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

looks jiggy to me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Shankus,

DD LED is driven at about 10mA for brightness reasons - you don't want an extremely bright LED beaming from the torch and competing/distracting in the darkness. Then again, perhaps you do?.

The LED should work with 10mA as 20mA for the multi-colored LED is probably the rated current of the multi color LED. It doesn't mean it won't work at less. If all else fails, a resistor change is all that is needed.

It of course means you'll need to keep a supply of dead batteries with you to show the LED. Not quite what was intended, but it's your torch.

One catch though....the multi color LED at the site you gave is only available in 5mm. The MR-X has a 3mm hole for the LED. Your mod will need modding.

Phaserburn,

I'm glad you intend to use the MR-X a lot. It is what was intended. I use mine every night walking the dog down the unlit bike paths and parks. It really does do a good job lighting the way ahead and rechargeable batt's was a must.

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Burnt, have you seen the new Rayovac charger that quick charges special NiMH AA's with internal circuitry in 15 mins or less? Might be good if you're using AA's for powering the MRX.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

OK, whilst waiting for the silicon to dry on the second last build (run #1) , I conducted a *current vs lux* on a MR-X. 



**** Amp vs Lux report *** *


*The Setup*
MR-X with 6 x 2000mAh AA NiMh with polycarb lens (waiting for flashlightlens to send me his last lot of UCLs). The MR-X was placed overhead at 1m above lux meter on the table top. The focus was set to a spot beam. 3 readings were taken for current setting and the average one was used.

And the (my) results...

750mA -----> 6800 lux
1000mA ----> 7500 lux (10% inc over 750mA)
1250mA ----> 8200 lux (9% inc over 1A, 21% inc over 750mA)
1500mA ----> 9400 lux (15% inc over 1250mA, 38% over 750mA)

Bear in mind again that this setup has the factory OA polycarb lens.

*Conclusion*
Whilst the increase in current definately increases brightness, one can see that *doubling* the recommended current setting (for a 5 watter) only saw a *38%* increase in lux!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif So.... will I continue to drive my MR-X at 1.5A, you bet'cha /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


----------



## kj (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I plotted your data and I feel that the brightness is steadily (almost constantly) increased /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW, do you think you have a chance to get another batch of X3T in near future?


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Great data, Hotbeam. Well, it looks like 1.5A is worthwhile because no "sweet spot" exists where diminishing returns start to occur. After 750ma, of course. Are two 5W's at 750ma better than one at 1.5A? Hmm. I'm keeping mine at 1.5A, too!


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaser*, actually, two 5-watters at 750mA would be preferable, one reason being that they would exploit an LED's tendency to run more efficiently at lower current levels. Also, the Vf would likely be somewhat lower, which would result in longer run time, though not dramatically so. Maybe an extra 5-10 minutes in regulation? Also, the whole setup would likely run a little cooler than it does now.

And according to the Hotster's data, two emitters at 750mA would be about 50% brighter than our single emitter at 1.5A.

To summarize: 50% brighter with longer runtime and less heat! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

There would be some challenges, though. For example, How do you center TWO emitters in a single reflector? How do you get your hands on DOUBLE the number of X3T to make the same number of lights?

Bottom line: sounds TERRIFIC, but I don't see how we could do it.

*All*, please don't burn me at the stake for saying this, but I think MR-X running at 1A would be a FANTASTIC light. It would run as bright as a Space Needle II but keep running just as bright for perhaps 2 HOURS. (I'm confident that 2x3x123 would deliver at least 2 hours runtime at 1A, and 6xAA lithium might, too.) Sounds good to me!

Of course, the point is that you CAN do this with your MR-X, and if you change your mind later, you can put it back the other way. I'll keep mine at 1.5A for now, though I very well might drop it to 1A after blinding moths and flies becomes boring. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*Hotbeam* and *Burnt*, one feature that would be VERY cool would be to rework the 10-turns pot to incorporate a small switch located near the existing on/off switch and DD indicator. The new switch would allow the user to toggle between "high" (the existing 1.5A) and "low" (500mA or even less) output. The pot could still adjust exactly what "high" and "low" represent; no need for two pots, it would be fine for the single pot to influence both settings.

The idea would be that the light becomes even more versatile. There are times that MR-X is TOO bright! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif For instance, if I get a reflection off a white door or a window while walking around, I temporarily blind myself; so for close quarters use, the "low" beam would be great! It would also extend battery life, plus perhaps work in regulation when the batteries could no longer run "high" in regulation.

To be most useful, you'd want something like "low" dropping to 1/4 the LIGHT (not current) output of "high," so even the 500mA I mentioned might be too high. The resulting light might become the MR-X2, or some such v2 light! If my MR-X had that little switch, I might *never* need a different flashlight, except for backup. Guys, you've gotta do this. (Not literally of course... but you've just gotta!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

One other note: Hotbeam (I think?) mentioned that 6xAA lithium gets kind of toasty in MR-X? To take care of that problem, maybe 5xAA lithium plus a dummy cell would work better... I think that 6th cell is just being wasted to generate heat in the regulator.

Might be nice in the winter, though. Look, honey, a heated flashlight! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## FlashlightOCD (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
*Hotbeam* and *Burnt*, one feature that would be VERY cool would be to rework the 10-turns pot to incorporate a small switch located near the existing on/off switch and DD indicator. The new switch would allow the user to toggle between "high" (the existing 1.5A) and "low" (500mA or even less) output.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be approaching the "Dream" light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

A third setting allowing "Under Driven", "Spec Driven" and "Turbo" for closeup, intermediate, and long range useage would be ideal ... figure how to fit all that into an E2e body size and then all the modders could retire. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*kj:* You'll find that after 2A, the curve would plateau. X's? Trying hard...

*phaser:* I think our 1.5A setting is pretty much near its optimum /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*milky:* Yeah, ideally 2 x 5w at 750mA but physically, it just won't fit in a cylindrical FF. All your points /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif What... 1A? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Hmmm... that toggle normal, dim and low setting has merits. I too encounter the "too bright" factor at less than 10m range. Forget close up work!!! Yeah, 5 x L91 may do but at 8.5v (unloaded), I don't know how long they will last. It doubt (have not tested) it will do 1.5A. 

*OCD:* Dream light? Hmmm.... I don't think in the near or medium term future that such a light will exist. There will always be 3 types of lights: EDC, PKT and HC. Everyday carry, pocketable and hand carry. BUT WE CAN TRY!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Phaser,

No I haven't. I try to keep 2 sets of batteries so I never have the need for a fast recharge, but that's only because I don't have such a fast charger.

Milky,

I've been thinking of a dimmable MR-X for a while. I never thought I'd hear myself say this about a torch, but the MR-X is sometimes too bright. It is a wicked torch.

Circuit how-to's are covered, but how best to interface the switch to the user yet maintain a professional appearance and the water resistance of the original torch is preventing this from going further at this moment. A solution may come soon. I'm thinking..

Chris


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*shankus said:*
Can it be that the second one, in the bottom photo is....*My Precious*!? 

Yes yes, we wants to _shine_ our Precious... 

[/ QUOTE ]


Shank... posting your silver MR-X in 12 hours. Please look out for it ~ next Thursday 25th Sept. Enjoy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

got mine yesterday! wow!
although the hotspot has a slight green touch and a slight blue corona, it is VERY bright on lithiums with a very very good side spill and truly evil throw! what a light!

milkyspit: too hot on 6 lithium AAs? I thout it could only run at about 1.2A with those because of their limited capacity to deliver more current, and you are saying the opposite?
I don't get it, but then again, I am dumb in this matter.

bernhard


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Kiessling*, I think it has more to do with the voltage. Anything above Vf essentially becomes heat in the regulator, and 6xAA lithiums operate at higher voltage than anything else used in this light. That's why they could generate the heat.

If you've been using the light that way, please try 5xAA lithiums as an experiment. My guess is that your brightness and runtime will be similar, but with less heat. Make sure the dummy cell you use has very low resistance! You may need to sand the contact points lightly.

*All*, I've run into technical difficulties with my parallel battery adapter, which is why results on that haven't been posted yet. Hopefully I'll have it worked out soon; you can be sure that when I've fixed the problem, results will quickly follow. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thanks Hotbeam. 
I'll be looking sooner than Thursday, I remember the Hotlips coming much sooner than I expected!


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

will try on the second set with one of DSpeck's dummy cells.
tried it out outside ... wow! the throw is incredible! kills my SF M3 HOLA !
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*kiessling:* Glad you got the light OK. Hope the brightness of the X will make up for the slight green/blue tinge. Just don't shine it on a blank white wall /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Use it in real life situations. Oh, the real beauty of the MR-X is it just keeps maintaining the brightness for many many minutes into whatever you are doing!! Yes, 5AA L91 may be a good configuration. Did the DDI LED come on straight away? After how long? I may do a plot when I get some time. Also, do try NiMh 2000mAh+ cells. You will get noticeable brightness with them, compared with the L91's.

*Milky:* Your 2 x 3 CR123 holder... yeah, please keep us up to date. That would yet open up another battery source for the MR-X. So far we have AA Alkalines, AA Lithiums, AA NiMh, Li-ions... 123s coming up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif **EDIT *2* x 3 CR123 holder

*shankus:* Yeah, west coast USA gets it a couple of days before the east coast and sometimes the ocean wind carries the plane faster across the Pacific /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, you slightly understated the battery situation. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Using an EL 3x123 adapter ($6 at his site), we've already got the option of 123 cells. My 2x3x123 adapter will merely increase the runtime. I've been using the EL 3x123 adapter off-and-on and am impressed with 3x123's ability to drive MR-X in regulation. Basically, the cells can recover enough overnight to keep driving in regulation for several minutes day after day after day, even though they fall out of regulation after about 20 mins. if run continuously. The 2x3x123 adapter will only make this happy situation even better. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Regarding the lithium AA cells, I imagine the tradeoff would be that they can't deliver the same extreme current flow that 123 cells can, but they (AA lithium) do provide more than double the overall capacity. If they could run around 1.0-1.2A for over an hour, brightness would still be exceptional even though the DD indicator would be lit. That's a perfectly acceptable result in my book. Go 123 for a little additional brightness, or AA lithium for much longer runtime! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(Or NiMH or Li-ion for the additional brightness with short-to-medium runtime at almost no operating cost whatsoever. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Happy happy joy joy! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Alan Hsu (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

milkyspit,

I was wondeing how many days did you get out of the 3x123 setup (in regulation)?


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Alan*, to be honest, I'm still using my first three 123 cells in MR-X, perhaps 3 minutes daily on average, and they still run in regulation. If I leave the light on more than a few minutes they fall out of regulation, but the light looks just as bright as in regulation. When I pick up the light the next night, the batteries are running in regulation again. I've been doing this for perhaps 7-10 days. (Hmm... when did I first receive my MR-X?)

Remember, new 123 cells will run *continuously* in regulation for at least 20 minutes, maybe a little longer. So the cells I'm using are already pretty depleted, and yet they're still strong enough to give me a few minutes' regulation a night, which is all I need. My most common uses of MR-X is to walk around the yard in the dark to check things, get something out of the garage, or take out the trash. Plus the brightness of the light scares away the wild animals. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I should mention that I have my own usage pattern with this light. It's on for a few seconds to get a good look at everything in front and around me, then off as I walk, then after a few steps on again for a second or two to recheck ahead of me (still walking while doing this), then off for a few more steps, etc. I find this to be a good compromise between MR-X's ability to show me everything around me clearly, and preserving at least some of my night vision. Also, I minimize the chance of "flash blinding" myself when the beam reflects off something a little too close to me. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I think what will happen is that the cells will run for shorter and shorter times in regulation each night, until they basically turn on the DD indicator immediately. Even at that point, I'll probably get several more days with my typical usage pattern before noticing that the beam has dimmed.

I'm completely happy running MR-X with 3x123 for my standard pattern of regular but intermittent use, with just a little runtime each night.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky/Kiessling,

Hotbeam did a run with 6X AA L91 lithiums in about post No. 61 I think it was. They couldn't cut it at 1.5A for long at all....but gave great runtime. Going to 5 cells would make it worse ie. less light, no affect on heat due to 'losses' with regulation circuit - it goes without saying, less current to LED = less heat. Remember, the voltage needs to be measured whilst under load, not a simple 6X open circuit voltage. Stick with the 6X AA L91 lithiums. If the DD LED is on when using these batteries, then there's no sense going to less cells. Any heat when the DD LED is on is, for all intents and purposes, only the LED heat ie it's as cool as it's going to be for the power you are driving the LED at and there's no (well, negligible) heat due to the efficiency of the MR in DD mode (>99%).

123's, well that's another story. Milky would be best to offer opinion as it's his favored choice and I don't have any data for 123's in an MR-X.

Chris


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

hm ... I am using the light for about 10-20 minues now intermittently, and still no DD indicator on 6xlithiumAA.
will tell you when it finally shows up.
and compared to the heat generated by the L4 (at the outside of the light, not at the LED), the MR-X is an ice-stick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard 

p.s.: hotbeam, do not worry about the tint, it is still plenty white, it only gets beaten by the McModules so far! I am really really pleased with that monster!


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt*, my understanding is that any voltage delivered above Vf will be dissipated in the regulator as heat, even if current falls below the 1.5A regulation minimum. Is this not the case? That excess voltage has to go somewhere even if the batteries can't keep up with the full 1.5A current flow. Please help me sort this out; I need a good explanation for what happens to the excess voltage.

Also, remember that lithium AA cells have fairly flat discharge, hence the long, steady runtime Hotbeam observed despite not reaching 1.5A. That's why 5xAA lithium, I think, is a realistic choice. Hopefully kiessling will run that configuration through his light next so we can get some tangible evidence to prove or disprove the theory.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Focus?*

How do you folks like your MR-X focused? I find that when I focus it to the absolute tightest, brightest hotspot, the beam is a little too narrow for comfort at closer distances. Last night I refocused to the point where a donut effect JUST BARELY starts to be visible. (Interestingly, that's the way the fixed-focus L4 beam looks, too, although MR-X set this way still projects a fairly tight beam and L4 does not.) That beam feels much better to me for most purposes! (I'll tighten the focus in a heartbeat to look at something more than 50 meters or so away, though.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

I'll call this the "near-donut" focus. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

For anyone keeping track, my first set of 123 cells (used intermittently night after night) has *finally* gotten low enough to activate the DD indicator as soon as the light is turned on. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Milky:* Wow. Intermittent use has given you ~1+ week of runtime at 1.5A. That's terrific. I will try to do a 5 x L91 test this weekend and report. Near donut.... I still like mine at point focus. Still playing with it.

*kiessling:* Intermittent use can give you great runtime when all on-time is added together. Yeah, the OA2D has plenty of mass to dissipate heat. Ice-stick... I like it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*The Saga Continues!* In my previous post I said that my first set of 123 cells in MR-X finally stopped running in regulation under intermittent daily use. Wrong! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

To my great surprise, this evening I turned on MR-X, and it was *still* in regulation! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Just this afternoon the cells were going straight to DD mode, but inexplicably, some sort of magic happened while I was eating dinner, and once again regulation is alive and well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I like to keep the light focussed to the tightest spot, because I love the throw, and the spill light is bright enough for anything that is 20 or less feet away.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

Re "my understanding is that any voltage delivered above Vf will be dissipated in the regulator as heat, even if current falls below the 1.5A regulation minimum"....

"voltage delivered above Vf will be dissipated in the regulator as heat". Correct,

"even if current falls below the 1.5A regulation minimum". Not correct.

If the current hits 1.5A or less then battery volts = Vf and DD LED comes on. The battery volts under load in this condition will not be greater than Vf hence there can not be power lost in the circuit.

The thing to keep in mind is that batteries will drop in voltage when loaded, with most lithiums to the point where battery volts = Vf at 1.5A or less. It's why 123's won't blow a LED when direct driven.

Keep in mind too that a LED is a current device, NOT a voltage device. There's posts on this elsewhere.

Based on Hotbeams results I concluded that the AA Lithiums also couldn't supply 1.5A ie battery volts = Vf at 1.5A or less.

Think of a battery as a power source with a resistor in series remembering the LED is a current device.

Kiessling,

That's interesting. That is significantly different from Hotbeams tests. If you're using the same batteries as Hotbeam AND your times are continuous run-time then somethings not adding up. I'll see how Hotbeam did his tests when using these batteries.

If you have a current meter it may give you peace of mind to check the current by unscrewing the tailcap and with the current meter on 10A range connect the meter between the battery stick negative and the body of the torch. You should read 1.5A if (IF) the DD LED doesn't come on due to the added resistance of the meter. Please confirm.

All,

On a side note, got myself 4 X 1665 Li-Ions today. If I can get them to fit (a bit long, but I think I can get it to fit - posts when I get the battery 'stick' done) it'll give about 2 hours continuous runtime at the full 1.5A regulated from the MR-X!

Chris


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*burnt/kiessling:* The original test was done with 6 x L91's on a U5*U*. MR-X runs on X3*T*. Looks like there maybe more voltage to play with now, hence the DDI LED staying off. Also intermittent use means the L91s have time to 'charge up/recover', giving more regulation time.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

On a lighter note... if you had saved your *chef's hats* from your MR-X, you'd be able to use it as a light diffuser on the head of the light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif And yes, it does light up a standard room just nicely!


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt*, you've never steered me wrong in the past, so I want to believe you; but knowing myself, the truth is that I won't be wholly comfortable until we see how others' 5xAA lithium trial runs do. In fact, I may do some tests myself. It's nothing against you, just that I've not had that sort of experience with AA lithiums and need the results sitting in front of me to "recalibrate" my mental model of those cells. The failing is all mine. Thanks, though, for the discussion, as it's a good jumping-off point for such tests. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Looking forward to anyone's tests with 5xAA lithiums, be it hotbeam, kiessling, or someone else. This particular battery configuration seems to be the biggest mystery (or at least most controversial) of all the power sources for the MR-X.

Let's rock! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

ok ... status report:
I estimate I used the MR-X on 6 x lithium AA for about 20-30 min intermittendly and had it on constant on right now for another 25 minutes until the DD LED finally showed up. by then it was very hot, the ice-stick became a real torch. just for the record, I used the lithiums supplied by hotbeam.
all in all, I got well over 40 minutes of regulated output in various uses including short bursts and a 20-25 min constant on period. I think that means that those batteries in fact CAN give the 1.5A for this time? 
I will stick with this combo, forget the NiMh's! the only problem on constant on will be the heat, I was barely able to hold the monster after the longer constant-on period.

will report on the 5 x lithium AA + dummy cell soon ...

Burnt, sorry, but I do not own such an instrument. I am a mere consumer of what you guys are willing to sell me ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Milky:* That's it... I am doing a 5 L91 test tonight!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 719am Sat here right now.

*Kiessling:* 20-30mins + 25mins... sheesh!!!! If the DDI does not come on, you are getting 1.5A on L91's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif. I need to definately do a 5 cell test tonight. If you use 6 L91s, you will have to put up with the heat /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif. I would (highly) recommend you go with 6 NiMh... if not to reduce heat output/waste energy, but to extend the life of the X3T. Rememer the extra voltage that the 6 L91s supply is actually wasted. Up to you though. Will let you know the result of the 5 L91 run tonight.


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

hotbeam, do you mean I'd stress the emitter more with this setup? I thought the LED is protected by the magic resistor for exactly that reason! Isn't the heat the same for all configurations that run the light at 1.5A? I am really confused now!

status: after a few minutes of rest, it can run for 1-2 min in regulation, then the DD LED comes on and never really goes off again for any reasonable time, even with a few minutes of rest. when the DD LED is on, the light flickers slightly all the time and gradually begins dimming after about another 20 minutes or so. Remeber that I am judging this with my eyes and only a rough estimate of the time since my vigilance level does not permit the use of a stop watch or so...
the heat is greatly diminishing also, natuerlich.
once the dimming became really noticable, it gets dimmer rather quickly, and the flickering stops.

bernhard


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

in the end, what I did get on this single test with 6 lithium AA's differs from your graph earlier in this thread and looks more like the curve of the NiMh's. BUT this is a judgement with my eyes and an estimate of time only, no equipment used, keep that in mind.
Maybe the X3*T* compared to the U5*U* gives the lithiums the chance to kick ***???

Again, please, someone with great knowledge answer my question in my post above !?!?! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif
I am confused annd worried now, and I really do not like the idea of recheargables, I cannot help it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway, this MR-X really really rocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OK, it is the brightest LED torch so far. OK, it has a super run-time. OK, you can run it with a variety of baatery configuration. BUT the really kick-*** feature is the DD LED, at least for me!!!!!! I LOVE it to know when the batts are going to die soon and I have still plenty of juice left to complete my tast at hand. this is a feature that eliminates one of the biggest drawbacks of regulated lights, which are almost a most for me nowadays.
Thanx again!

bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Bernie /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, you are correct. The MR restricts the current to 1.5A. No problems there. This is a heat issue rather than a current issue (although those 2 factors are linked). You can run the MR-X with 6 L91s or NiMhs or Alks. _However_, if you run it with L91s (6), the MR-X will get much hotter than if you had used NiMh. This is because of the excess voltage available on the L91s (above the voltage required by the LS) which turns into heat. NiMhs will run noticeably cooler comparatively. 

I am just obsessed about reducing heat and not needlessly wasting energy. My point is if you can reduce heat and you are still getting reasonable runtime the battery source, well... why not /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif. That is all. Also heat is the natural enemy of Luxeons. The more heat, the less light output over time.

Having said that, go ahead and continue with L91s. Your part of the world is going into autumn anyway /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Bernie...* will do a 5 L91 run tonight and let everyone know the results. It may prove very interesting. Sounds like a LED voltage differential (between the the U5U and X3T) that is making the MR-X run regulated with Lithiums now. An added and unexpected *feature* of the MR-X /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

so you mean the heat from the regulator and not the heat from the LED itself that should be the same for all battery configurations providing 1.5A, right? I am a bit slow here, I know ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Anyway, that does not bother me too much since this is not a light for constant-on in my context, I just did this for testing ...

Looking forward to your results with the 5xlithium configuration though. would be cheaper, too.

right now I am doing a test with 6 x Duracell Alkaline on constant-on, just for the fun ...

bernie


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

The heat I am taking about is from the FET (which is attached to the underside of the Hotlips recessed area). Being directly 3-4mm beneath the emitter slug, it will have some thermal effect on the Luxeon also. Heat from this point then travels through the Hotlips to the OA2D head and also spreads to the body. This means using L91 will make the whole unit hotter than NiMh... hence my obsession about reducing heat. BTW, the factory setting is *1.5A*, not 1A. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Oh, the MR-X CAN be used constant on. Don't be shy of using it this way. Burnt uses it for about 30mins a night!!! I would just recommend using NiMh if you do plan on using it this way.

6 Alk test should be very quick /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I'd guess the DDI LED will come on hmmmmmm 3 minutes into the run? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

oops, sorry, typo, corrected it to 1.5A /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

with 6 x Duracell ProCell AA the DDI LED came on after about 6-7 minutes constant on. after about 20 minutes of rest the unit was able to maintain regulation for another minute or so and here it glows again, the DDI I mean.
Well, as already suspected /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif, this is definitely NOT the combo you'd look for.
Although I wonder if this should work better with longer pauses between the intermittent uses since the Alkaline cells DO have about the same 2700mAh than the lithiums? Give the poor guys some rest and have all the fun later again ...
Never mind, I'll try them constant-on now ... 

Conclusion: Alkalines are not so cool, but WILL work if there's nothing other at hand at the moment, a very convenient feature if you take the MR-X with you on your journeys ... you can find batteries to make some light everywhere, e.g. when your beloved NiMh's are dead and you don't have your charger with you.

And ok, I promise, should I use the light for longer burns, I WILL use NiMh's, you win /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes, give it whatever battery source and she goes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Wow, 6-7 minutes! Beats my guestimate of 3 mins /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Longer pauses will give it more on-time. *NiMh... kewl!* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*kiessling*, my experience with 3x123 is that tomorrow night you'll probably get another few minutes of regulation out of the batteries, and this will continue for several days.

I think the flickering might be caused when the batteries are just starting to fall out of regulation... they'll run regulated for a moment, then fall out and dim, then recover just a bit and again run regulated (and brighter), etc. My Milky Candle project has the same kind of flickering when the batteries reach the point of just falling out of regulation.

Yes, the lower Vf for X3T can only be good news for those AA lithium cells. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Regarding heat, hotbeam is correct. The MR circuit keeps the emitter safe from too much current, but the regulator itself is a heat source when more voltage is available than the emitter needs. That's why 5xAA lithium interests me so much, because in theory it could lower the voltage enough to eliminate the heat, but not affect the light output. We walk a fine line here, though, because dropping the voltage *too* low means the light will not be regulated at all. If we're fortunate, 5xAA will make things just right, or as Goldilocks says, not too hot, not too cold. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(You do have that Goldilocks and the Three Bears children's story in Germany, don't you?)

Hotbeam's heatsinking is great, but every heatsink has its limits in terms of how much heat it can move away per unit time. If we push the heat issue too far, even that wonderful heatsink in our MR-X will be insufficient for the job.

Just to cover the heat issue a little more: remember that the emitter is fastened to one side of the heatsink, and the MR circuit is on the other side of it. Both these things generate heat. The emitter will never have more than 1.5A current flowing through it, so the amount of heat it generates has a maximum and can never go higher; but the regulator has to deal with excess voltage from the batteries, so the higher the battery voltage, the more heat the regulator produces. This isn't as bad as the emitter generating the heat internally, but a massive amount of heat from the regulator could still hurt the emitter. I would imagine that under most circumstances, though, your emitter is fairly safe.

Regarding alkalines, if you ever seriously want to use them on a regular basis you could adjust your MR circuit to drive the emitter with 0.75A or perhaps 1A of current flow; the lower current flow would help the alkalines run better and for a much longer time. I'd imagine you could get them to give you 1 hour or more under regulation if you reduce the current flow in this way.

The Pila 150S Li-ion rechargeables that Phaserburn has would also work nicely with MR-X, so you actually have two choices (Li-ion and NiMH) if you decide you need to go in that direction.


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Try this, my fellow MR-X'ers: use the 123's (or whatever!) and make sure they are in regulation. Then, turn the flashlight over in your hand so that the red DD led faces the ground and is covered by your hand and cannot be seen. See if you can detect the MRX going into direct drive while in actual use, such as walking outside, etc., not just staring expectantly at the beam. It's more difficult than you might think, and could be food (fuel?) for thought.


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

you easily can since it will flicker ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

milkyspit ... I do not know this story here in Germany, it is Freya and Thor and Odin here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I finished my testing with the alkalines:
6-7 minutes in regulation
about one hour of very good output in declining brightness
still glowing like my Arc LS after 90 minutes ...

so ... it is not the coolest combo, but does work quite well when there's nothing other to feed it's hunger.

Did I already say that I really like this light?

Looking forward to the 5 x lithium test results!

Good Night guys!

bernie


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*kiessling*, here you can read the fairy tale of Goldilocks and the Three Bears.


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Kies, mine doesn't flicker at all. The DD led comes on, that's it. Have tested it many times. Milky, Hotbeam, do yours flicker?


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

I too have no experience with AA lithiums. I was merely going off Hotbeams graph. I'm a NiMH fan, and now a Li-Ion fan /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Presumably the difference may indeed be the different LED Hotbeam used for test purposes. Let's see what goes for Hotbeams 5 X AA Li test using an X3T /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif.

Kiessling,

re alkaline test and DD LED in general. AA alkalines indeed can't supply 1.5A for long, but they do stay in there for a very long time producing very usable light. For example, 6 X Energizer Max: 

Runtime (minutes) Current

0.0 1.500
2.0 1.500
13.0 1.000
31.0 0.760
46.0 0.670
62.0 0.590
75.0 0.540
82.0 0.493
89.0 0.446
98.0 0.427
116.0 0.380
150.0 0.306
170.0 0.253

Yeah, they dropped out of 1.5A regulation quick - "U" voltage rated test LED - but an X3T LED at several hundred mA is still very usable. Note that the LED still ran over spec at over 30 mins. Not bad at all really.

The thing with the DD LED to remember is that it doesn't necessarily mean the batteries are flat. It means the batteries are direct driving the LED as if the MR was a piece of wire. If using NiMH's or Li-Ions however, it can be taken the batteries are very near flat when the LED comes on, but that's because those cells hold their voltage quite steady right until they are depleted when they then drop off quite quick - perhaps 10-20 mins of good usable light.

Chris


----------



## shankus (Sep 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

One of the features that makes this light shine, is "VersaUtility".
Even though it doesn't kick arse with alkalines, the ability is there. It's just more useful.

Could someone post, all in one post, the possible battery combinations for the MR-X?

Another thing occurred to me while reading the posts tonight. Has the word _*hybrid*_ been used to describe the MR-X yet?
It seems that with direct drive & current regulation, it is truely the best that both have to offer.

How many posts have you seen where members speak of having a light that takes advantage of cells otherwise dead to other lights? Opalec, Arc etc. Milky, you're working on a light specifically for this purpose, right?

The MR-X fills the bill admirably, without having to even move the cells to another light.
Groovy. 
If it only had dimming capability, it would be tomorrow's light, today. (TomorrowLight?)

The more I read about this light, the more I like it. I have got to get me one of these. 
Wait, I've got one on the way! WooHoo!


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*All:* Forget about using 5 L91s. The DDI LED lit up only after ~1 min of runtime. The spacer was a cotton bud wrapped with aluminium foil. Voltage at the battery holder's terminal was 8.90v. Please confirm this yourselves should you wish.

*Phaser:* None I have tested flickered just before the DDI LED lit up.... nor at anytime during or before.

*Shankus:* Indeed, your light should only be a couple of days away /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

-----------------------------------------------------
*Possible battery combos for the MR-X*:

*1:* 6 x L91's - Per Kiessling, in regulation for up to 40minutes. I have not tried this. Body gets hot after ~10mins though.
*2:* 6 x Alks - Out of regulation very quickly. Body coolish.
*3:* 6 x NiMh (2000mAh+) - ~58mins of regulation at 1.5A. ~6 times cycled NiMh. Body warm.
*4:* 3 x CR123 - ~39mins regulation. Body warm
*5:* 2 x 3.6v Li-ion 1865 (1800 mAh) - 65mins of regulation.
*6:* 2 parallel 3 x CR123 - ?? regulation (guestimate of ~75mins)
*7:* 2 parallel 2 x 3.6v Li-ion 1765 (3200mAh) - (guestimate of ~125mins /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif)
-----------------------------------------------------


What other battery configurations are there??? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Give it to me!!

** If I have made an error, please let me know so I can edit this information. 

***EDITED option 5 and 7


----------



## shankus (Sep 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
The spacer was a cotton bud wrapped with aluminium foil. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, a tampon? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Yes, I'm looking forward to receiving it. I can't do any serious testing, just a flashaholic playing with a new toy. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
The only cell combination my MR-X will likely see is 2000-2200 mAh NiMHs, or alkalines, in a pinch.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

shankus... me staying away... far far away from your first comment /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yes, your choice of 2K+mAh NiMh would be ideal...


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam,

Point 5 = 1800mAh - cheap 1865's (AU$20 each). Now they've cycled a couple of times let me do another runtime.

Point 7 = 3200mAh - 4 X 1765's, also cheap ones @ 1600mAh and AU$20 - not as common as 1865's hence the same price for a tad less Ah rate. I needed the extra mm's to fit 2 side by side in the Mag. Just finished battery stick and charged for first time so I'll need to cycle a couple of times to simulate real life conditions and do a runtime. I also guess about the same 120-125 mins. Not bad for a 10k lux LED torch that will still fit in the rear pants pocket, or a jacket. Li-Ions are a bit lighter than NiMh's too.

BTW, the Mag switch assembly needed sanding down 2mm to fit the 4 X 1765's as they'd hit the tail cap otherwise. Machining the tail-cap would be another option, but why?. A 2 min sanding job on a belt sander would be considered minor to we CPFers.

May have to do tests on simple zinc carbons for those in a real pinch. It will give usable light, but don't expect 1.5A. It'll prove the versatility however.

Chris


----------



## Likebright (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Where can I get a holder for three 123s or a couple of Pila batteries to fit in a Mag 2 D cell light?
Or instructions for rigging one up? In case I want to use those batteries when my MR-X gets here.
Mike


----------



## snuffy (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

likebright -- Elektrolumens Bottom of the page.


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

just a few notes:

the 6 x Alkaline combo is really doing fine! ok, it cannot maintain the 1.5A for a reasonable time, but stays very bright for almost an hour or so which is +very+ good ...

flickering: I do not mean that there is a bug, it just flickers like all my regulated lights flicker when falling out of regulation. once the brightness starts to drop significantly, the flickering comes to an end.

milkyspit: Goldilock ... hm ... and the morale would be ... do not leave your home unguarded ... or ... do not break in other one's homes unless well prepared ...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

bernhard


----------



## Likebright (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Snuffy,
Thanks.
Mike


----------



## shankus (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

kiessling, it could be that you have a keener eye to flicker than most.

I have a friend who sees flicker in monitors that I can't detect at all. He says it will give him a headache.

How fast is the flicker you see with your lights?


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

shankus, difficult question .. the frequency and depth is changing, but should be around 5-15Hz with aleatory changes of magnitude. I do not think that anyone could miss this though. I usually determine the end of regulated runtime by this flickering, of course with that wonderful great terrific DDI LED that is unnecessary now ...
bernhard


----------



## IsaacHayes (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I see flickering monitors easily too. And I get headaches from them too. Anything below 85hz is painfull if I have to be on it for more than 2mins at a time. 75hz I can tell easily, 65z ouch!!!! I can't bare to look at long. Every computer in a workplace or school I come across the first thing I do is set the refresh rate to 85hz.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaser*, no flicker for me, and I *am* one of those people who can see monitor flicker easily. However, I think my MM+ sandwich powered by a single AA lithium has flickered from time to time. It may be a peculiarity of those batteries, that they temporarily drop in power output for a fraction of a second then "reload" themselves and resume the previous level of output. Even hotbeam's graph showed some fluctuation with those cells even though they kept running at roughly the same level for quite some time.

*Shankus*, yes, the Milky Candle is designed to run just fine on cells that other, higher-powered lights can no longer use. The Milky Candle's still in the prototype stage, but my 3 year old son already demands to have it next to him as he's falling asleep. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif It'll be in production sometime within the next month, hopefully.

*Hotbeam*, 2x150S (Pila 150S rechargeable Li-ion) runs 22 mins. in regulation and generates bright light for 44 minutes overall.

*likebright* and *snuffy*, the link for the Elektrolumens 3x123 battery adapters appears to be incorrect. Try this one. They are great adapters.

*Burnt*, who makes these 1765 and 1865 Li-ion cells, and where are they available for purchase? Do they incorporate protective circuitry?

*kiessling*, hmm... moral of the story would be for little children not to meddle with other peoples' property, I guess. Incidentally, I think this story might have its roots in the old German fairy tales of the Grimm brothers. Most of those involved a child doing something wrong and ending up with some gruesome fate. The Goldilocks story would be considered tame by their standards, because the child isn't actually eaten! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## Likebright (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milkyspit
Ya, I had to mouse around the Elektrolumans site a bit but found it.
Thanks,
Mike


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky... only 22 mins in regulation? Doesn't seem to gel with burnt's readings. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Got my MR-X yesterday.

With Sanyo 2100 mAh NiMH, 1 hour 4 minute run to DD illumination.
With noname 2000 mAh NiMH, 1 hour 2 minute run to DD ilumination.

I had a 54 minute run, and some 30 minute runs on other cells.

I'm waiting for my Lenmar 2300 mAh NiMHs to come in from the battery station. After a few cycles, I anticipate 1 hour 10 minute run on them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very large spill, comparable to Megaclops side emitter. Hotspot about twice the size of the Megaclops. Brighter spot, brighter spill, overall more light.

I tried my lambda Krylon sputtered reflector in it, and it completely smoothed the beam out. No artifacts whatsoever.
Reduced brightness a bit, though. Very good in combination with that UCL.

I'm thinking of making one of the sputtered reflectors myself, so I can control the amount of the sputtering.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, I was able to repeat that time within a minute or so either way on three separate occassions. Remember that I'm running Pila 150S cells, which are rated at only 1000mAh capacity, whereas Burnt is running cells with much higher capacity. Also, it's possible that the additional circuitry inside the Pila 150S is introducing some sort of resistance that shortens the time. Plus Burnt's emitter might be slightly lower Vf, his battery adapter might introduce a bit less resistance, his DD indicator might be adjusted to activate at a slightly lower current level, etc. I don't have an exact answer regarding cause, but I'm sure of my times. Sorry I can't be of more help there.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*shankus said:*
Got my MR-X yesterday.

With Sanyo 2100 mAh NiMH, 1 hour 4 minute run to DD illumination.
With noname 2000 mAh NiMH, 1 hour 2 minute run to DD ilumination.

I had a 54 minute run, and some 30 minute runs on other cells.

I'm waiting for my Lenmar 2300 mAh NiMHs to come in from the battery station. After a few cycles, I anticipate 1 hour 10 minute run on them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very large spill, comparable to Megaclops side emitter. Hotspot about twice the size of the Megaclops. Brighter spot, brighter spill, overall more light.

I tried my lambda Krylon sputtered reflector in it, and it completely smoothed the beam out. No artifacts whatsoever.
Reduced brightness a bit, though. Very good in combination with that UCL.

I'm thinking of making one of the sputtered reflectors myself, so I can control the amount of the sputtering. 

[/ QUOTE ]


Excellent runtimes Shankus /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The sputtered reflectors sound like a good idea /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

You're right, right, right re runtime Pila vs what I'm doing. Good to see you're on the ball. I take it this was 2 X batts, not 4 X paralled series, so I may yet to be corrected. I am indeed tinkering with higher capacity cells.

Re "who makes these 1765 and 1865 Li-ion cells, and where are they available for purchase? Do they incorporate protective circuitry?"..... Info - Still trying to get this info. Available for purchase - "HYE Trading Power" www.hye.com.au. Very helpful and one-off over the counter sales not a problem.

Given the game I'm in the supplier is a bit reluctant to freely release info. From what I can gather, they are no-name brand, Chinese manufactured batteries with at most over discharge current and thermal protection. Perhpaps all the Pila's offer? Certainly not any 'intelligent' low battery volts or thermal protection circuitry such as is included with battery packs with battery monitoring circuitry.

I am monitoring the 'critical' parameters manually during charge. Discharge......well, without battery monitoring circuitry and given there are 2 cells in series, I'm taking the risk that that when DD LED comes on one set of cells is not likely, but may be, below the recommended 2.5 volts minimum. At worst this will result in a prematurely dead cell, not a hazard (carefully monitoring the charge characteristics).

I am now researching battery monitoring chips and circuits so more peace of mind may come.

Chris


----------



## Homebrew (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Howard, I turned my MR-X down to 1030ma. and found very little reduction in light output but there is a MAJOR reduction of produced heat on the 6 AA alkaline configuration. The run time is much greater while in regulation, previously the AA ALK's only gave 3 minutes of operation where I am getting about 20 minutes (constant on) before it falls out of regulation.

We need 7 NiMh cells to maintain the regulator and allow for draw down while keeping the I2 R loss down on the FET!

at 8.4v and 3800 mah cells I am getting real close to four hours of regulation while set at 1000-1030 ma. 

I have been trying to balance the losses due to excessive voltage vs. the cell draw down to "empty". 

There are too many people here that don't understand the need to maintain the MINIMUM voltage between the regulation point (Star forward and the regulator losses) vs. the cell drew down range. At 1030 ma. I found the required voltage for "FULL REGULATION" was 6.85 and the DDI came on at 6.60 (led at 888ma.)

Note, observed the DDI comes on slightly AFTER the unit leaves regulation. On the 3800 mah source I found the unit left regulation about 20 minutes before the DDI activates.


Now I have played with this thing some, I MUST reiterate, this is the FINEST FLASHLIGHT AROUND!



/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Likebright (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Howard,
Any news on run #2 yet? 
Reading this stuff's got me drooling on the keyboard.
Mike /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]

**** Amp vs Lux report *** *

*The Setup*
MR-X with 6 x 2000mAh AA NiMh with polycarb lens (waiting for flashlightlens to send me his last lot of UCLs). The MR-X was placed overhead at 1m above lux meter on the table top. The focus was set to a spot beam. 3 readings were taken for current setting and the average one was used.

And the (my) results...

750mA -----> 6800 lux
1000mA ----> 7500 lux (10% inc over 750mA) <---------------------- Homebrew ####
1250mA ----> 8200 lux (9% inc over 1A, 21% inc over 750mA)
1500mA ----> 9400 lux (15% inc over 1250mA, 38% over 750mA)

Bear in mind again that this setup has the factory OA polycarb lens.


[/ QUOTE ]
*Homebrew:* You've been tinkering!! If 1030mA does it for you, go for it! 20 regulated minutes at 1030mA on 6 AA Alkalines!!! WOW! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif This would be so cheap to run!! There is a big difference in heat wastage between 1.5A and 1A. It looks like you've found the sweet spot for running alkalines /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Many thanks for your kind words. 


*Likebright:* I would really like to start a run #2 but scarcity of the X's is stopping me. I wonder what sort of responses there would be for *MR-W's*? ie W bin Luxeons. Even they (W) are still very difficult to obtain.


----------



## Likebright (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

A--I can hold for the Xs. Do hope they show up again. I am no expert on LEDs and don't know what or how much difference there is between the bins Ws and Xs. I do know people love those Xs!
Mike /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*shankus said:*
I'm waiting for my Lenmar 2300 mAh NiMHs to come in from the battery station. After a few cycles, I anticipate 1 hour 10 minute run on them. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, well, well.

I got my 12 Lenmar 2300 mAh NiMHs today from the Battery Station. I recommend them. Very fast shipping, and they were $2 each. 

On the first charge: *2300 mAh Lenmars, 1 hour 13 minutes!*
From what I understand, the cells won't reach their full potential until they've been through around 5 charge-discharge cycles.

What runtime can I expect after 5 C-D cycles? 1 hour 18 min.? 1 hour 25 min.?

It's looking good.

I'm running the second set of 6 through now. I just passed the 30 min. mark.

What I'm anxious to see is the runtime on each set, as the cycles increase.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*shankus*, that's a fantastic NiMH result.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

What charger are you using with those cells?


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

MAHA-C401FS & ACCUPOWER 20. 

I'm charging in both, but I'm in fast mode on the Maha. Thomas Distributing's site states 94% Charge completeness in fast mode. So, as those cells finish in the Maha, I'm moving the cells from the Accupower into the Maha. 
The charged ones, I'm putting into the Accupower to trickle. 
Whan all are done, I let them cool in their chargers. I think that extra cooling time ensures the trickle mode tops them off good. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just finished the 1st run, on the second set of six cells.

Lenmar 2300 mAh NiMH: *1 hour 14 minutes 45 seconds.*
Almost made it 1:15!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you guys think the temp of the light effects the length of the run?
Most of the time, I'm holding it, switching hands, and it's not allowed to get very hot. 
Could this be increasing the runtime?

When you guys run your tests, is the light sitting idle on a bench?


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*shankus*, thanks for the info. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I did my initial tests sitting the light upright through the center of a roll of toilet paper. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't think the temperature would affect runtime all that much unless the cells themselves heated significantly during the run. But I'm probably not the best authority on this question, plus it's late at night as I write this! Maybe someone smarter and/or more awake could voice an opinion?


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I think when the cells are good and conditioned, or "broke in", 1 hour 15 min.+ runtimes will be routine.
Of course, there is still the considerable light output after the current regulation stops, and by my definition, when it reaches 50% of initial brilliance, that is the end of the run.
I would like Roy to graph one of these on these 2300 Lenmars, but I don't think I can let go of mine! 

I think these Lenmar 2300s are going to be popular. Especially at that price.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*shankus*, are the Lenmars supposed to support unusually high current output, or are they basically the same as any other NiMH cell? Or maybe there's something else that's special about them in addition to the 2300mAh rating?

Anyway, hope my light can approach the runtimes of yours! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif

I really have a bias against NiMH but am willing to give 'em a try, with results like these! Just bought some of those new Rayovac IC3 cells that charge in 15 minutes. If they don't work out, I'll return them to Walmart and go for the Lenmars.

Ironically, I need a 6AA battery holder before the fun can begin here at Milky Labs... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

That's right. I remember. You don't like NiMH. I forgot.
I must say, I think you're missing out. I _never_ buy alkalines anymore. 

Your light didn't come with the "Mag-a-zine"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

I am interested in the 1C3s as well. 15 minute charge is unbeatable, although I have enough cells that I never charge on fast, usually. I'm think I'm interested because of the "toy factor". I think I read that they are 2000 mAh.

I read a thread here that spoke of the newer higher capacity NiMH. Someone said that the newer cells were to have higher capacity at the expense of current capability.

I don't remember the thread, and I haven't heard it elsewhere, but, this light is getting plenty of current on these cells.
It's very bright and very white. If it was just dimable...

And as far as capcity goes, I got 1 hour+ runs on 2000, 2100 & 2200 cells.

Have you run the MR-X on the IC3s? I'm interested in the time...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, I bought a 2 D Mag the other day, for my 32 LED adaptor that I got from ebay.
The tailcap spring in it was more robust than the other two Mag springs I've seen. On the side that snaps into the tailcap, it continues to wind in toward the inside, and there seems to be an extra turn or two at the end of it as well. It is tighter, and puts more pressure on the Mag-a-zine. 
I'm using this spring in my MR-X.

I thought it was worth noting, since it's the only thing different about my light. 

I like the hybrid nature of this light. Current regulation, and direct drive, without even having to flip a switch. It's the best of both.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*shankus* (anyone else here?), I'm perfectly happy with Li-ion, just wish that technology had more options available. Hopefully in a few years it will flourish in the was NiMH is currently! We'll see.

Sadly, I didn't opt for the Mag-a-zine. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Didn't think I'd be running any of the AA options in my light, but the 15 minute charging plus great runtimes for NiMH has twisted my arm a bit. I figure the cells can always be topped-off in just a few minutes on the 15 minute charger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif

I did try to run my new Rayovac IC3 cells in MR-X, but had to use a pair of the EL 3-to-D adapters. Under this arrangement, MR-X only drew 0.83A of current! Which means no regulation at all. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif This was the cells' first charge, but I don't think that made so much difference; just seems like the same story as others have told, that those 3-to-D adapters introduce a substantial amount of resistance. Oh well. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

I think hotbeam's sending me a "care package" tomorrow... heh heh...

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Glad to hear about the care package. 
I'm interest to hear of the runtime. 

In regards to topping off, you can always top off with a normal charger and normal cells, as well.

When Li-Ion become more available, and better than NiMH (are they better now?), I'm on that bandwagon too.
I haven't kept up with Li-Ion, are they in a AA form?
What's the capacity? 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just tried my Chief_Wiggum's 4-AA-to-D cell adaptors in the MR-X. They supply the same (1.495 A) current that the stock adaptor does.
These things rock. 
Right now, I have them in my 32 LED module from ebay. I'm overdriving it with 5 NiMH cells. Four in one series adaptor, and one in a serie-parallel adaptor w/ dummy cell.
These adaptors are very versatile.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*shankus*, the only AA-sized Li-ion cells available right now, as far as I know, don't contain the protective circuitry that normally protects from explosion risk. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif There *are* some Li-ion in 123 size, such as the Pila 150S and 168S rechargeables. Capacity isn't yet matching NiMH in these smaller size cells, but given that Li-ion has higher charge density (I think) than NiMH in general, they'll likely catch up eventually.

I missed out on Chief_Wiggum's adapters, dangit! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif

Er, could you please *remove those long +++++ lines in your recent couple posts*? They're making ALL the posts in the forum format too wide! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif (*Edit:* they're gone now. Thanks!)


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm sure they will catch up.

I'm hoping someone will take Chief up on his offer to the plans for making them, and make them available again.

Only problem is, none of my cells above 2000 mAh will fit four in a D Mag.

I need to bore out my Mags. I was thinking one of those brake tools might do it good enough.


----------



## Rothrandir (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

brake tools? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

i've tried those and had a completely horrible time!
i think if you devoted several hours a day, you might get it done in a week or so! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Roth, they're that bad, Huh? 
Do you have any other ideas, other than machining?

Probably enlarging it by several thousandths would be enough (10-15?).


----------



## Rothrandir (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

yea shankus...that bad!

i tried using them to remove the annodyzing of mag heads way back at the beginning of my modding career...several hours later, some annodyzing was still there! add that to the fact that the thing kept popping out and flying all over the place.
i ended up sanding the dam annodyzing off by hand! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif (still took hours, but at least i could do that while watching a moovy)

i'm afraid i can't really think of anything /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
maybe a flapsanding tool and a drill/dremel? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I got a 1 hour 15 minute run from the second charge on the 1st set of cells.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

2300mAh sounds like a *they are it!* 1h13m on the first charge. ~75mins on subsequent charge! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif That gives the current Li-ion tests a small whipping. I think I'm gonna have to get me some of those Lenmars!

My runtime tests have been a mixture of walking around with it inside and outside the house 50% of the time and 50% standing on the MR-X tail. Essential roughly simulating real usage.

*Shankus*, after the DDI LED comes on, the brightness drops quite significantly. I don't know whether you observed that or not? Dimmable? :-> Did you use 2 Chief_wiggum's 4AAtoD in the MR-X? 8 x 1.3 (ave) = 10.4v is a bit too much for extended run. 

*Milky*, I am sure the Li-ion scene will pick up but probably slower than you'd like. That 15min charger of yours... does it charge to 95%+ in that time? 0.83A on 2 EL 3toDs. That really sucks. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Hope Wayne will get that sorted out sooner rather than later. 'Care package' will be in the mail tomorrow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I don't notice a drop in brightness. Seems to slide seamlessly into direct drive.

I used the Wiggums adaptors with 6 cells only, just to see if they would supply the current or drop the voltage. Passed with flying colors!


----------



## alanhuth (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Here's a nice comparison of NiMh's done by digital camera guys. I've been using MaHa and been surprised at how long they last in digital cameras. No comparison to alkalines at all, and not really a comparison to most of the cheaper rechargeables I've tried.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, the batteries are made specifically to mate with the charger to achieve a 15 minute charge. Since the batteries are rated at 2000mAh and specifically MUST use this charger, I assume they will indeed get essentially a full charge in 15 minutes. However, I don't have any manufacturer specifications that explicitly state this; just using common sense. I'm guessing that Rayovac would only rate the batteries based on what they can achieve in the 15 minute charger. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

*shankus*, when my 123 cells drop into DD mode, I don't see a drop in brightness, either. I suspect that a drop into DD because the cells can no longer generate the necessary *current flow* does NOT trigger an immediate drop in brightness, but that a drop into DD mode due to falling *voltage* DOES. This would make sense when one considers that as voltage drops a bit below Vf, not only does the regulation circuit stop functioning, but also the LED itself restricts current flow. IMHO this is an underreported property of LEDs; they DO operate a fair bit below the specified Vf with a much lower amount of current flow (and brightness).

Clear as mud? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Shankus/Milky:* What I mean is after the DDI LED comes on, the MR-X will drop in brightness quite considerably over the next ~15+ minutes. See my graph on the first post of this thread.

*Alanhuth:* Very good resource for rechargeable batts. Thanks. Pity the Lenmar 2300's aren't there.


----------



## shankus (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Sure. The brightness does drop, but it does so gradually.
My MadMax+ drops out of regulation with a snap. It just drops in brightness instantly, not much, but noticeably.

The MR-X shows me no change, except the DD LED comes on, then it is as if it were a direct drive light, which it is, at that point. 

I have let it run down until it was about as bright as my MadMax+ R2H, but I didn't time it.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, the Pila 150S cells went into DD after roughly 22 minutes, but the light's brightness didn't drop enough to be noticeable to the naked eye until roughly 44 minutes into the runtime. At that point, it went into an extended, steeper decline, dimming to about half the brightness of an LGI by perhaps 1 hour 10 minutes into the runtime.

Put another way, even after the regulation circuit itself stops functioning, the cells themselves "regulate" the output until roughly the 44 minute mark.


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Shankus:* My observation was different to yours. As long as you are getting good light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

*Milky:* Ah... your observations were for Li-ions, which ~mirrored the characteristics of the L91s with its ability to maintain a high current output over time. Mine was based on my Powertech 2Ah NiMhs.


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, the results with the Pila 150S cells are especially impressive in light of the stated capacity of 1000mAh. On paper and assuming level output, they should last about 40 minutes, and in practice they essentially do a bit better than that! Even though they're not quite perfect about keeping in regulation.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

It is strange how these lithium technologies seem to fall out of regulation quicker than NiMH yet keep pumping out the juice long after that, whereas the NiMH seem to deregulate (to coin a term), poke around briefly, then quit.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## Homebrew (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

It's not funny, just to much current during regulation. I think of it as designing the greatest flashlight in the world and driving it till it breaks. 

Try it at 1030 ma. ... Just try it!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## Homebrew (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I just ran a test using two Pila 168S Li-Ion batteries. It ran 1 hour 30 minutes in regulation then I cut it off, affraid to deep discharge these expensive batteries. The 168S batteries are used in my Surefire KL4 usually, just decided to try them in the MR-X since the voltage looked EXACTLY right for the regulator with my settings.


Remember I set my MR-X at 1030 ma. 
NO perceivable loss of intensity.
Huge reduction in produced heat.

2 Pila's in series, terminal voltage 7.92 FRESHLY CHARGED Drooped to 7.1 at time when I turned it off. 

Direct Drive would have come on at 6.5 Volts on Battery at my settings with current Luxeon's VF 


Just a note, The Pila's have charge / discharge protection built on to each battery.

2nd FACT my Surefire KL4 draws 1600ma. on them when running and only gets about 50 minutes of regulated run on them. PS the KL4 runs very hot (so much current and SMALLER heat sink.

I need to find a pair of D sized Li-Ion bats for the MR-X, I can imagine they would run this 3 or 4 times longer in regulation.

I need to check with Permalight to see if such an animal is available. 

Just think, 4 hour run times on RECHARGEABLES!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Homebrew*, how'd you install the 2x168S in your battery tube? They ought to be a little longer than would typically fit in there...? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

For what it's worth, at 1030mA you've basically turned MR-X into a Space Needle II in terms of brightness. That's not intended as an insult! Quite the contrary; SNII is a seriously bright light, though without regulation. When I first received my MR-X I also had a SNII that I used for comparison. In terms of total output, both seemed generally the same, though the MR-X has a much whiter beam. In throw testing, the MR-X outthrew SNII by perhaps 10 meters. (100M vs. 90M.) It is clearly less bright, but also much more efficient and kinder to the batteries in terms of current draw. I might "dial it down" myself at some point. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Please keep us informed of whatever you find in terms of a D sized Li-ion cell... I'd be interested as well! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## shankus (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
My observation was different to yours.

[/ QUOTE ]
Do you mean you see a definite, quick drop in brightness?


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Homebrew... Because the air is cool ~10C in the evenings here (early Spring), I don't feel the heat that much. Very tempted to try the 1030mA drive. I like the runtime you are getting!!

Shankus... My MR-X's brightness drops much quicker in the 15mins after the DDI LED coming on... very much like the black line in the graph in the first post.


----------



## shankus (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Oh, I had forgotten about that graph.
Did you do that graph? What was the capacity of the NiMH cells?


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

They were 2000mAh at the very early stages of life. Probably 2-3 charges/recharges.


----------



## shankus (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Since that run was on a U5U, is it fair to say that on the same cells, the runtime may be a bit longer on the X3T? (lower Vf)


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 26, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

A few of you have asked for instructions on how to reduce the current the MR-X feeds to the X3T. I'll bet it has something to do with Homebrew's post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well... here they are: 

*Removing MR Hotlips from the OA2D*
<ul type="square">[*]Use a thin but strong blade to separate the lips on the Hotlips from the rim of the OA2D. 
[*]Once you have a ~1mm gap, insert a flat head screwdriver or similar in between and twist SLOWLY until the gap widens to ~5mm. Try not to damage the lips on the MR Hotlips.
[*]Grip the Hotlips with a rubber glove or equivalent and SLOW wiggle it away from the OA2D rim until it dislodges. You will see 4 wires: blue, white, red and black
[*]CAREFULLY lay the MR Hotlips with the circuit showing on a soft, padded surface. Remember the X3T is on the other side!!!
[*]You will also see the brownish thermal conducting material around the rim of the Hotlips. Put this away for the moment. You will need it again when you put the MR Hotlips back
[/list] 

*Changing the drive current *
<ul type="square">[*]Measure the voltage between the switch negative and the FET source with a DMM. You will get 225mV. See diagram for component location.
[*]Use a 2mm jewel screwdriver to DECREASE the current drive on the MR-X by turning the potentiometer ANTI-CLOCKWISE.
[*]To set the current exactly, you need 3 hands /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. With the DMM in place and its readout visible, turn the pot ANTI-CLOCKWISE until the voltage reading matches those below. Do this reasonably QUICKLY as you will feel the Hotlips start to get warm after ~30-60secs.
[*]1.5A, 22.5mV
1.25A, 18.75mV
1A,15mV
750mA, 11.25mV
[/list] 







*Reinstalling the MR Hotlips*
<ul type="square">[*]CAREFULLY place the MR Hotlips back into the OA2D to ensure the wires fit nicely
[*]Remove the MR Hotlips again and now wrap the thermally conductive strip around the side of the Hotlips, giving it enough tension so that it will fit back into the OA2D.
[*]That's it!
[/list] 


PS. You should be relatively savvy with using simple tools, have a steady hand and know how to use the DMM. Please be careful. You are modifying this at your own risk. Send it to me or a competent fellow MR-Xer if you want a hand.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

And the MR circuit as promised....

Some notes first:

The circuit shown is a very common constant current concept. There would be many variations out there of this type of general concept. This one however uses a very stable reference and one of the lowest on-resistance FET’s available.

The circuit shown was the first proto. As with all SMT proto’s I do I allow for parts to be added if needed for whatever technical reasons. It is sometimes too tight to fit tack-ons etc. For this reason, it is worth noting that based on my observations of the circuit it may be ok to delete R4, C3 and C2. For the adventurous, you may also delete C1 but instabilities may arise. Deleting C4 is also OK but it helps prevent any turn-on transient peaks and also removes any ‘scratchiness’ when adjusting the pot. The value of R2 was to allow for a very broad range of currents, If you don’t want a maximum of over 1.5 – 2A then make it ***EDIT*** 75k to 82k.

If I had the time to tinker more before the concept was released, then perhaps it would be slightly different. As all that received torches I’m sure can attest to however, it works fine, hence my not going the extra yard and trying to delete as many parts as possible. Rev 2 may be different however. Perhaps a few less parts than used in the rev 1 sort-of proto.

Note also, It is also ok to use a zener instead of the TL431, but resistor values may have to be re-calculated. You could also just use a resistive divider. Neither of-course will give such stable currents. When I set a current, I want it to be the same over temperature and supply voltage variations period.

With the below circuit you could use conventional, non-SMT parts, if you wish as I have intentionally chosen parts that can be readily sourced from almost anywhere in non-SMT form. This was to allow others out there without SMT capability to do the same.

Any comments welcome. It is a VERY flexible circuit. Almost anything can be changed and with little effort still made to work.






Chris


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

There you go! Now you can make your own MR... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just wait till Rev 2 and the availability of more X's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Homebrew (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Sorry, been too busy to answer about how I held the batteries, In testing with the 168s Pila's I used 176 mercury battery holders to temporarily hold the Pila's and make the check. Worked great. 

I am going for 2 D Li-Ions now at 4800 Mah and the run time should greatly iimprove!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

You found some D-sized Li-ions? Cool. Let us know the runtime! (at 1030mA /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif)


----------



## Homebrew (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes Howard, I did and they are like gold or so the manufacturer must think. I figure they should give 4 hours and 20 minutes in regulation but only the test will prove that.

I got to hand it to you, you sure do some CLEAN and precise work. 

On a new note, How are we going to get a diffused reflector so as not to unbalance the light's color temperature when the focus is adjusted to a spot. You know that greenish tinge IS because we are using a relector that is designed to focus on the horizontal filiment of the incandecent bulb. We are now focusing on the phosphor color correction and causing a green shift in the center of the collimated beam. Too much green and the mix isn't white anymore. It needs a sand reflector in my humble opinion this would crrect the color shift at focus.

And No to some who may suggest it is the green tint of the new ontario polarized lexan window. The polarizer does not effect the color temp of the light, I tried it with clear glass and clear plasic, it remans constant. 

Howard, when did the polarized window appear? It is new to me and I have yet to see it on the ontario's in the stores.

It does seem to cause the re reflected light to be more controlled when it is reflected back toward the refelector.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Homebrew*, where are those D-sized Li-ions available, what do they cost, and how do they get charged? Do they contain the appropriate charge/discharge safety circuitry?

Lots of questions I guess, but they sound neat... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## Homebrew (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Working on the safety issue, I have a Li-Ion recharger and the safety mechanism is a poly switch, (used in most communications battery packs). Assures limited current reducing the risk of a violent venting action. 

You know, the cells I am beta testing have a total AH rating of 4.8 but it is safe IAW the data sheet to have a discharge rate of 16.6 AMPS !!!

When I get it all worked out and safe, I will indeed post the source for the battery. The manufacturer is scheptical so I ask you wait for the results before I force the issue of availability to ALL. I am lucky to live near the manufacturer, let's see what goes here.

BTW, we are talking GOLD here on cost, I have not been quoted in quantity yet but the batteries will rival the cost of MR-X by the time you have 4 and a charger. You know two on duty and two in the charger, I know how the flashaholism works!

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif


----------



## Homebrew (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm off to dreamland, it is naver too late for this but I am bushed, see yall later.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sleepy.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Homebrew:* Like gold huh? And you still bought it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif A true flashaholic here /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Burnt_retina built the CLEAN circuit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I just put it all together. I believe Otokoyama is currently getting some nice reflectors made. See his "Perfect Mag Reflector: Camless Version Offer" post in this section. Polarised window? You mean the UCL (Ultra Clear Lens) on the MR-X? That was from flashlightlens.com. It is much much better than the stock polycarb OA lens in terms of light transmission. I think it is up to 99% vs ~94-5% for the standard. Most people can't see it there and have to touch the damn thing (then I need to give it a wipe!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam,

LMAO re having to touch the UCL. Had the same thing here too. Most people stare at it for many minutes, slowly rotating the torch to see any imperfections and to see if they can spot any evidence there was a lens at all. Even after many minutes, most still just had to tap it to make sure I wasn't kidding them and there was indeed a lens there. Makes me laugh every time.

Homebrew,

Hotbeam is very fussy over quality. It's good as I am too. It's not often one meets another with such pride in the quality of what they do and Hotbeam deserves full credit here. I even had a laugh just this weekend when he took my MR-X and said "now lets see how well you did yours", or similar, and continued to examine my workmanship. I passed the Hotbeam QC inspection test! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I too am interested in D Li-Ions, runtimes etc. They would be very expensive however, but it's yet another choice for those that truly want the absolute best brightness, beam pattern....and runtime! etc.

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Homebrew, very interested in the li-ion D's! Do keep us in the loop on that. But, with D li-ions, who would need extras? That's the point of D cells! So long as you could charge them overnight, you'd be great to go!


----------



## Kiessling (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

well, have to admit that I just HAD to touch the lens, too. could not believe that this nothing at the bezel was actually a lens ...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Sep 30, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt:* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

*Phaser:* Exactly! Unless 4.5 hours is not enough hiking time or walking time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*kiessling:* Next time I'll just ship MR-X2 WITHOUT the UCL /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.


----------



## shankus (Oct 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I am lucky enough to have both an MR-X, and a Perfect Mag Reflector, w/ orange peel finish (on the way). I hope this reflector bridges the gap between a stock Mag reflector, and lambda's Krylon sputtered Mag reflector. 

I would like just enough smoothing effect to take out the beam artifacts, but maximum brightness otherwise.

Lately, I'm becoming of the camp that, if I'm going to sacrifice brightness, I want to gain runtime. 

The truth is that in real use of a light, some artifacts don't take away from the serviceability of the light at all, and are only noticeable when shining at a white wall.

But, I got the PMR orange peel, because the MR-X is something of a showpiece for me. I'm aiming for perfection. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif 

(That's also where those Li-Ion D cells would fit in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif)


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Shankus, I totally agree and also have an PMR w/OPF on the way. Li-ion D's would be great. Every modder running a SN II, Megaclops, Blaster VI, etc. would want them. I hope they pan out to be something available.


----------



## shankus (Oct 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*shankus said:*
...the MR-X is something of a showpiece for me. I'm aiming for perfection. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif 

(That's also where those Li-Ion D cells would fit in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif) 

[/ QUOTE ]

My RGB flashing LEDs came in a day or two ago.
I'm thinking perfection, with a tasteful touch of some real Pimp style. (Pimpfection?)


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

A pink feather boa to wrap around the light might help achieve the desired level of Pimpfection you're reaching for. Does Nite-ize make a clip 'n' grip in leopard print?

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Oct 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

hotbeam ... if it arrives WITHOUT the UCL, I'll send my mom your way ... be afraid ... be very afraid!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernie 

edit: btw, I packed the thing in an old SOCK of mine for protection ... according the Skunk Lights motto "Smell the Light" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 3, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

It's official! MR-X run #1 is now totally completed.

No guessing whose this one belongs to /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*All*, I finally got one of those nifty 6AA-to-2D battery adapters (hadn't ordered one at first). I'm running with Rayovac IC3 NiMH AA cells (15-minute charge time), and WOW! Runs great.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Since I'm a NiMH newbie, though, is it acceptable for me to run until the light goes out, or would that somehow damage the NiMH cells? What do you, my fellow X-Men do? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

Also, has anyone tried a little Writeright or one of those diffusion lenses with their MR-X? How'd it do? (I know I know... heretic!) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

It'd be great if there were some sort of slip-on diffusion filter that would allow me to convert MR-X from long throw to super flood and back. If it were held in some sort of rubberized frame, I imagine it would stay put yet be field removable without damaging the flashlight housing itself. That would be great! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Oct 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

To make a diffusion filter, you could buy the accessory lens pack for the M*g D cell lights, and then get a regulare clear M*g lens and put writeright on it. That way it would be fairly easy to switch between flood and spot.


----------



## shankus (Oct 4, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I have run mine down to the point where it puts out less light than my 1 watt MadMax+s. I checked the cell voltage, and it was about 1.1V.

You shouldn't run them until the light goes out. I think that the voltage would be too low at that point. 
But, I wouldn't run alkalines out in it, either. Doesn't the chance of them leaking go way up when they completely discharge? Can someone with more knowledge on this chime in here?
I would be less than pleased to have acid inside my MR-X./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I've tried mine with Otokoyama's Acrylite lenses, his Perfect Mag Reflector w/ Orange Peel finish, lambda's Krylon sputtered Mag reflector, and the stock Mag reflector, of course.

I just wrote a short review of Otokoyama's PMR/O in this thread last night:
Re: Perfect Mag Reflector: Camless Version Offer 
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I would recommend either Otokoyama's PMR/O ($20), or lambda's Krylon sputtered ($6) reflectors.

The Acrylite lens performs beautifully with the MR-X, it's just that it's such a bright light, I want that UCL there to let it out, and I want to smooth the beam with a decent reflector./ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
-------------------------------------------------------------------

And now, I'm wondering about your runtimes with the Ray-O-Vac IC3s. How long? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Pi*, I didn't even know an accessory lens pack for M*g D cell lights existed. Thanks!
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

*Shankus*, I wouldn't worry too much about running alkalines to the point of no light. First of all, when they drop below Vf for the emitter they'll still have something above 1.0V left, which isn't even considered dead for those cells. Second, if they leak most of the leakage will probably sit in the battery holder, not the MR-X housing itself. You could even get a bit of extra insurance by wrapping a piece of paper or perhaps Tyvek (that slippery plastic-paper stuff used in many of those large mailing envelopes) around your battery holder, then inserting into MR-X that way... this would stop any leakage from reaching the inner wall of the MR-X battery tube. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

But this is probably a minor issue, right? I assume you'll only run alkalines through MR-X as a stopgap measure when no other cells are available? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Also, to be completely anal retentive, it would be alkaline paste, not acid that seeped out of alkaline batteries. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Thanks for the comments on diffusion lenses and reflectors! I'm off to read your review right now... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bowdown.gif


----------



## shankus (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Well, I only mentioned the alkalines because you're skeptical about NiMH. I've not bought alkalines in so long.

But, my girlfriend had a flashlight on a bookshelf that leaked on it. They were D cells, and there was enough liquid that it got onto the wood of the shelf and stained it badly. I don't recall if they were alkalines or carbon-zinc.

No, my MR-X won't see alkaline unless there's a sort of "emergency". It won't see lithium, but maybe those Li-Ion D cells.


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky.. .glad to hear your 6AAtoD arrived safely. That has now opened up a myriad of cell types for your MR-X.

Shankus... I am kicking myself for not getting one of the Otoyo reflectors! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Bummer.


----------



## Kiessling (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

ditto about the Oto-flector, hotbeam. I e-mailed him if he would make another run ... no response so far. will let you know in this thread if the answer should yes ...
bernhard


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

All,

Re discharging of batteries....

Given the way a LED operates, and the way the circuit works, there is no chance of over-discharging NiMH's or Alkalines. When the LED dims to the point you feel the need to charge or replace, the voltage across each cell is not too low for either cell technology. Shankus' 1.1V for NiMH's is about right for his NiMH's, and it will be about the same for other cells due to the Vf of the LED. At the point the light is 'poor' with any cell technology they would be considered discharged, especially NiMH's due to they way they work), yet they will not be too discharged to warrant any concern.

Re NiMH's, given the way NiMH's work, when the DD LED comes on, they are for all intents discharged, with a few dregs remaining. They will be ready for a charge from this point on. Fortunately, you'll get the DD LED as a warning and still get 10 - 20 mins of good usable light (but reduced) before 'really'needing to charge.

Run those alkalines and NiMH's until the light output is of little use and you'll be OK. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam - I too have received my 6AA adapter; gracias, Amigo! Shankus, I agree that the PMR w/OP is the way to go for the MR-X. I've tried the diffusers, but I feel I lose a significant portion of the light emitted. Remember, if you can notice it it's probably a 50% difference... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## shankus (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

The lambda Krylon sputtered works well too. Mine gives a tighter spot than the PMR/O, and the beam is still beautiful.

50% if I notice it? I must get a light meter...


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Kiessling... OK. Let me (us) know.

Burnt... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Phaser... Glad to hear /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. What mAh will you be using?

Shankus... That is cool


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Still at 1.5A. Not sure I want to dial it down yet. 

MR-X vs. Tigerlight

Well, I just tried the two together in my pitch black yard. The MR-X is loaded with new SF123's and in regulation, and the Tiger FBOP has a fresh overnight charge. The MR-X is using the Perfect Mag Reflector w/ orange peel. Both have UCL. 

The Tiger beat the MR-X a bit on throw; it puts a bit brighter light on the target. Both have a similar fatter beam. I'm not sure if I'm losing some throw because of the MR-X reflector; I suspect I am, actually. The MR-X crushes the Tiger on color (of course). The MR-X spill appears to be a little brighter, too, and is massively enhanced by the whiter color. Everything gets rendered in much better sharpness of detail, IMHO. The beam shape on the MR-X, is, well, perfect. The Tiger isn't bad for an incan. I had tried the LDF on it only to find in a comparison that I was losing ALOT of light. But the beam quality, color and equality in output make the MR-X the hands down winner.

Overall, I'd say they were pretty comparable on output. Meaning, if walking with them you wouldn't (color notwithstanding) know which was brighter unless you paid closer attention and tested. This stands to reason; I figure the MR-X is putting out over 200 lumens (around 250?), and I think the Tiger does, too. Pretty heady neighborhood for an LED!


----------



## shankus (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

What is your opinion of the stock reflector in the MR-X compared to the Tigerlight? Or did you compare them that way?


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Shankus, I haven't compared them that way. Yet. Tomorrow eve I probably will. I am pretty sure that the MR-X will pickup points in throw. I am still happy with the PMR in my MR-X; the flood is almost always more important than a touch of extra throw.


----------



## Kercheval (Oct 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Put me in line for Run #2 Hotbeam...

I know you have more tricks up or sleeve.

jbk


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaser:* I'm still also on 1.5A despite Homebrew's results at 1030mA. Puting the MR-X next to the Tigerlight... brave /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am pleasantly surprised at your results. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Oh, never never use LDF if you can help it. It takes a noticeable amount of light away (as you have encountered). It is a nice stop gap measure but I'd rather fix the problem rather than apply a bandaid. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

*Kercheval:* Tricks? Me? Nah. Oh, hang on a minute! Let me see.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Your interest noted. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## rodfran (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes Hotbeam, ditto on what Kercheval said.
Put me down for run #2 of the MR-X.


----------



## kinzli (Oct 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'd be interested in run #2 MR-X if they become available...


----------



## richpalm (Oct 12, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ditto on run #2. Saw one in action. Something else!!

Rich


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Update and Quarry Test!*

Hello my fellow X-Men! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Lately I've been running my MR-X using Rayovac IC3 NiMH AA cells. (You know... the ones that are touted as recharging in 15 minutes... and they do!) Last night my fellow New Jerseyan *richpalm* and a bunch of other daring souls ventured with me into an abandoned limestone quarry behind my house. The quarry was last operational sometime around 1920... let's just say they were using mules and wagons, not trucks, when this quarry was being mined. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Seemed like a suitable venue for some extreme lighting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

MR-X was up against some stiff competition. *ufokillerz* brought a pair of SilverLegacy mini-HID lights. A couple people brought their Tigerlights. Then there was my own MagCharger with its upgrade to a downright nasty WA01160 bulb. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif I'd love to say MR-X blew away all the competition, but sadly that wasn't the case.

However, just the fact that MR-X was generally regarded as being worthy of comparison with these lights was impressive! Time after time, people borrowed MR-X to compare beamshots with its more powerful brethren. To put this in perspective, keep in mind that these other lights were all putting out *at least* 15-20 WATTS and more! Meanwhile, our little MR-X was pumping out maybe 10 watts, and still putting up worthy competition!

In terms of color, nothing touched the pure white beam of MR-X. In my experience, that's the thing most amazing to people, not its brightness. They simply have never seen such a beam color before!

*Hotbeam*, there were also a few compliments on your masterful, highly professional workmanship, right down to the colors of wires chosen and how cleanly they sat around the emitter. You should be proud of a job well done! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Of particular note was the fact that there was simply no LED competition to be found. Surefire L4 is impressive in the sheer amount of ground it can flood with light, but it has neither the throw not the beam color of the MR-X, and runs much hotter to boot! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

Nice job Hotbeam and Burnt. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## shankus (Oct 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Excellent. Sounds like fun.


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Milky:* I envy where you live. It's nice being able to go to your "backyard" and do tests like that!

Ufo's HID /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif That would have been one bright sucker. How would you rate the throw and output cf with the MR-X? Maybe the MR-X needs a refit with 3 x X3Ts!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. THAT would be a contender for king?

Many thanks for the kind words /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif. I try to do my best.

*Richpalm:* So that is where you saw one in action! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*Rodfran and kinzli:* #2 noted. I'll bet Burnt is cringing on the amount of upcoming work /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. For that matter... me too. LET'S HOPE I DON'T COME ACROSS ANY MORE X3T's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif (not)


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, it's a bit weird to compare the lights. First off, Ufo brought TWO mini-HID lights using two different reflectors. (I *think* that was the difference!) I'll describe the brighter of the two. Its beam looked light purple in color and went through the darkness straight like a laser; the beam didn't spread at all, really. When it hit something in the distance, it wasn't so much that it illuminated a large area as that it illuminated a small circle VERY INTENSELY. On the other hand, MR-X as you know puts out a beam that spreads a bit as it goes into the distance. It tends to illuminate a larger cross-section of a distant object, but less intensely, until at extreme distances the intensity drops essentially to nothing.

That said, I wouldn't mind having both lights. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif They serve different purposes. The mini-HID gives you the throw and intensity of a big light in a small, easily-carried package. However, MR-X is everything the mini-HID is not. It lights instantly whereas mini-HID takes 10-15 seconds to reach full brightness, and an X3T, being a solid state device, can take far more drops and bumps than the bulb in the mini-HID. Plus those HID bulbs cost $100 each! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

So if anyone would like to buy me a mini-HID, I'll use that as my "big light" and MR-X as my workhorse. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Funny world we live in, the "big light" is the small light, and the "small light" is the big one...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

(One final note: these monster lights made everything else look like unmodded MiniOA's! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif "Dangit! Why is my R2H MM+ sandwich so dim!?!" Hee hee. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif )


----------



## ufokillerz (Oct 13, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I will step in and say that the MR-X blew away my SNII W2 in terms of sheer brightness and WHITENESS, it made my W2 look pale green!!. The MR-X did a good job lighting up far away trees, but my HID had a sheer hotspot, could be focused to match a MR-X if i tried =).

Please put me on the list if you have more X3T MR-X in the future.


----------



## richpalm (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]


*Richpalm:* So that is where you saw one in action! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



[/ QUOTE ]

Yep! It's a 'must have' now! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rich


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

...and so the legend of MR-X grows, heh heh... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam, how many of these babies are in existance?


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*rich:* Lets pray for more X3Ts and SOON /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

*milky:* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif 

*phaser:* 15 master MR-Xers!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Too bad there weren't only 12; we could've been "The Dazzling Dozen". The Fortunate Fifteen is appropriate but doesn't have the same pizazz. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## Alan (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I regret that I got one MR-X, I should have ordered two in the first place. I compared it with X990 the other night. While X990 is much brighter as expected, the HID looks yellow all in a sudden:-(

Alan


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaser:* 12 or 15... Looks like the exclusivity will last a bit longer yet. Those WHITE and very low Vf (damn) X's are VERY VERY scarce!! Have been looking everywhere since the last batch with absolutely no luck /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif MR-V wouldn't have the same effect huh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif

*Alan:* *"TWO? YOU WANT TWO?"* in the same note as Oliver Twist in ..... OLIVER. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Please enlighten me on the X990?


----------



## LEDmodMan (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

hotbeam:
You may have to up that number of MR-X owners to 16, because once I get my hotlips with MR circuit I will be putting my very own genuine X3T on it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif It may not be an "official" MR-X, but it will truely still be one! BTW, it will be going into a pewter 3 cell OAD body with UCL lens! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll post pics once it's done. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif When it is complete, keep your eyes open on B/S/T for a Pewter 7,900 lux SNII I'll be parting with... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

PS - Please don't ask where I got the X3T since it was a one time only deal and only for a single unit. Sorry... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*LEDmodMan* and *Phaser*, hmm... the Super Sixteen? Shimmering Sixteen? Sexy Sixteen? "X"y Sixteen? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Go ModMan! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

At least that's an even two packages of hot dog buns (8 per pack here in the States) at our X-Man reunion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

*Alan*, that white color really freaks people out, eh? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif It makes *every* other light near it look, er, not very white... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*LEDmodMan:* You found the X? Good one! Ahhhh.... OK.... I'll adopt ya into the 16 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Your MR Hotlips should be with you early next week. Yes, pics when you are done! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Milky:* Hot diggerty dog! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Air fare organised /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## RussH (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Quoth LEDmodman: You may have to up that number of MR-X owners to 16, because once I get my hotlips with MR circuit I will be putting my very own genuine X3T on it. It may not be an "official" MR-X, but it will truely still be one! BTW, it will be going into a pewter 3 cell OAD body with UCL lens! 

Will it have the low battery (DD) LED? - Can a 3-cell be counted as a MR-X? And, why 3-cell?

Alan, you don't have to buy 2, do like LEDmodMan & make your own.... I'm just waiting on something better than an X3T - maybe the new 3 watt Luxeon, or the new technology replacement for the 5w (15w maybe?)
-RussH


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

It's true about the white color, though, it really is. It's so white and bright, the light looks like it's painted on the ground.

How about, the "International Brotherhood of the X"! It sounds more mysterious that way. Or, the "Inky White Mark of X", if you prefer a touch more sinister. "X Marks the Spot" for the swashbucklers among you. Ahar, har!


----------



## LEDmodMan (Oct 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Russ,
Well, technically yes, mine will be in a 3 cell light. So maybe call it an MR-X to the 1.585 power (2^1.585 = 3)? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif I am using a 3-cell OAD body so that I can use my series/parallel adapter (seen here) to run two sets of 6 AA's in series to the MR circuit. I think I may have to get me some of them 2300 MaH Lenmar batteries for killer runtime with incredible brightness too! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

I will have to add the hole into (subtract it from?) the OAD body for the DDI LED, and I think I like the idea of using a 5mm flashing RGB LED for this, to get that real pimpin' effect!







/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Thanks for that idea Shankus!!!

I'm just soooo happy that my quest for the X finally ended happily!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## shankus (Oct 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Excellent LEDmodMan, I remember that 12 cell adaptor well. 
That is, I remember coveting an 8 cell version of it.

Runtime with 12 Lenmar 2300 mAh, I would expect to be about 2 hours 20 minutes.


----------



## RussH (Oct 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

LEDmodMan: Did you ever run across a paint roller with the proper dimensions? What do you call it, a 3x4toD, 6x2toD, 2x6to3D? Maybe you should call yours the MR-X +. Or MR-X by 2. I really like it that you doubled the capacity without much increase in size. I still find the D size lights just a little too big for camping/canoeing. 

I keep forgetting to record the inside and outside diameters of the mag lites so I can look for stuff. 

I'm using a series 6AAto2D holder (triangle from electrolumins) that I copied from Hotbeam. I think he had a posting (maybe this one?) with all the details. Except I didn't have any D cells to scavenge for the Top & bottom plates from. I used a quarter on bottom (negative terminal) & a nickle (a penny works, also) for the + terminal & JBweld for insulation & glue. Howard's look much neater. But mine work in the Mr-X.


----------



## LEDmodMan (Oct 17, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Russ,
I never actually looked for a paint roller that would work for this since I already had the adapter. I guess it is something I could check. See if one of the ones I have would fit into a mag light? I suppose it could actually work... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

Anyway, with the way things have gone, I doubt I'll have time to make a run of the 12 cell battery holders (mag-a-zine). Don't be surprised if the plans show up here somewhere sometime soon!


----------



## shankus (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Hee Hee...

MR-X, 1001 uses...

Uses for Mr-X / number 1002
---------------------------

I was just reading, in bed. Some dog I've not seen before was in the street, barking relentlessly. Really putting a bug in ole shankus' butt.

I MR-Xed him. He silenced his bark, took a look in my direction, eyes glaring back at me like overdriven R2Hs, and promptly fled.
(_A new benchmark for luxeon color? How white is it when reflected in a dog's eyes?_)

MR-X: $213
Perfect Mag Reflector - Orange Peel: $20
Stifling unruly stray mutt: Priceless /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

For some things in life, there's MasterCard, for everything else, there's MR-X... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Ditto re 1002nd uses!! 

Burnt_retina tells me that previously whilst walking his dog, a dobeman at a car yard always barks viciously at him and his dog as he walks past. After the MR-X build, he went for his usual walk again and this time, MR-Xed the son of the b!tch. That dobeman promptly retreated from the gate and headed away. The MR-X is one bright light and unlikely weapon!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Gotta admit, during the recent "NJ Photon Fest" someone shined (shone?) a bright light in my direction when I was walking toward the group in the quarry.

So I X'ed 'em... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Several of my friends mock me when I mention my flashlights. So one day I took my MR-X to school, and gave them a taste of it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif


----------



## shankus (Oct 18, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

I have tried flashlights on barking dogs before, to no avail. I can't help thinking that the MR-X is what a Jedi would carry, or perhaps, even the Gunslinger (Stephen King's world).
Aye, 'tis a fine torch, 'tis.


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Milky:* Heh heh heh... "X'ed him" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Phaserburn knows the feeling /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Oh, Milky, the Inova X5 has "visible at 2 mile" marketing line, have you tried it with the MR-X? Given that you live on a long (presumably) straight stretch of road? I guess a 4 mile visibility. Wanna do a test?

*Pi:* Don't ya lose it at school Mister /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 

*Shank:* The MR-X is just simply THE DAZZLER. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotmeister*, sadly my straight stretch of road only goes about a quarter mile, which is something like 400 meters. I *might* get closer to a half mile by walking all the way to the top of the field across the street, but that's still not close to the limits of our little friend! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I think the limiting factor around these parts would not be the brightness of MR-X, but rather the diffraction of the light in the air over extreme distances due to all the pollen, moisture, heat gradients, etc.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Yes, Phaserburn DOES know the feeling. It's a feeling you can do without!

ok, come clean, Brothers X; have you tried shooting moths down with it yet? Admit it.

Or, am I the deranged one in the group? It's possible.


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ok Milky... looks like I might have to put in some fresh batteries into my blue Inova X5 and MR-X and go down the freeway for a test. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Will rope in an unsuspecting friend.

Phaser... during the MR-X build, I don't think I looked directly into the reflected beam. Only because I knew I'd have to take a rest for ~45 minutes for my eyes to recover before being able to continue. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Although I have had plenty of unreflector X'ed light whilst putting it together /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Shooting moths? Naaah... I prefer something bigger... dog? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

How about a Dingo?


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 19, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Next you'll say a crocodile /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif 

Dingos can only be found in zoos or in desert outback /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Phaser*, no, you're the deranged one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Although I have frozen flies with them, as well documented far back in this thread. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Brothers X? Sounds like a cool yet secretive band of monks. I like it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

*Hotbeam*, better give your unsuspecting friend the two flashlights and a cell phone. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


----------



## shankus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam, forgive my ignorance. How far are you from the desert region?

Myself, I live in the high desert of southern California (~2800 ft. elevation). The Mojave desert. The most noteworthy feature here, are the Joshua trees.


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Milky:* Yes, I had intended to use a cell phone for this test... definately! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

*Shankus:* This should give you reasonable idea of the landform. I am in Melbourne, bottom right of the country. Yes, I've hard of the Mojave Desert. Lots of aircraft parked there? Also army corps like doing training at certain places there too? The joshua tree is an interesting plant huh.


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Hotbeam*, does this chart remind you of the L91 runtime test you graphed a while ago?







In a word, PASSIVATION. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You might want to take a look at this article, which talks about the phenomenon. It's characteristic of pretty much all lithium cells. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif


----------



## shankus (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Interesting mix of different landforms there. I bookmarked it for later reading, as I start dayshift for two weeks today. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Yes, many aircraft parked here, especially since 11 Sept.
While I was desperate for work, I applied for a job as a security guard on the airport, in which I hoped to ride around at night, and use my then brightest light to scan for intruders. It was my Megaclops.


----------



## mobile1 (Oct 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I am interested in your magic resistor as well....


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*milky:* Amazing! That graph or rather, my graph, mimicked the discharge curve of the Lithium graph. Well... passivation huh? I have to watch out for this in future /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif 

*shank:* Yes, we have all sorts of landforms here... from rainforests to sandy desert to lush green mountains to fields of grain/wheat/grass to flat land /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Lots of uses for the MR-X if I can take 1 year off work and travel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

*mobile1:* Noted /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Homebrew (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hi All:

I am in the final stages of the Li-Ion D solution, and testing will begin. It seems I will be getting the final Li-Ion 2 D battery soon from engineering. There is serious concern by the manufacturer since the cells upon short will source 80 AMPS (Yes eighty amps) and could present quite a danger to the consumer. So my test pack will be available soon. I did not realize how long it takes for some of these manufacturers to follow up on their promise.

I DO SUGGEST YOU DO NOT experiment on the D size Li-Ion cells that do not have factory installed circuits on the cells themselves! 

I don't want to insult the generally high intelligence of the members of this forum, BUT.

IT WOULD BE EXTREMELY STUPID TO PUT THESE CELLS IN THE ONTARIO HOUSING WITHOUT PROTECTION. HOBBYING WITH THESE CELLS IS VERY DANGEROUS!

The cells are already explosive on their own. When one puts them in a containment / pressure vessel the situation becomes leathal.

The cells being made for me are safe and if they run MR-X for over 4 hours they will be well worth the price.

I will try to keep you posted, sorry for the delay, and PLEASE, take my warning seriously. I have been to the factory and I have seen what happens when these cells internally short from external abuse. 

NOT EVEN THE HOTLIPS WILL SURVIVE!


----------



## Phaserburn (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Oooh, way to sell 'em, Homebrew! Seriously, I am interested anyway. Looking forward to more info.


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Homebrew... advice noted /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif. Do update us. Replied to your PM


----------



## milkyspit (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*More Extreme X'ing!*

Lately I've been taking night walks down the lane that leads to the quarry near my house. I always choose a selection of lights to test under "real world" hiking conditions. Last night I took MR-X with me.

There's a short stretch of highway to traverse before reaching the quarry lane. As a car approached, I figured I'd better switch on MR-X to alert the driver to the presence of a pedestrian.

Shortly after activating MR-X, the driver switched to his low beams as if MR-X looked like the headlight of an approaching CAR or perhaps motorcycle... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif

That never seems to happen with any of my other flashlights. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Fantastic! It does put out an extremely intense white light, doesn't it... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Where I live, it is very suburban. I have to make an effort to leave the city limits to experience darkness without street lights or house lights.

Yet to do that that visibility test...


----------



## LEDmodMan (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Finally got my MR circuit Saturday. There was a "delayed for compliance with aviation security regulations" label on the package... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Maybe that's why it took so long to get to me!

I AA epoxied the X3T emitter onto the hotlips, and just have to do the wiring (I forgot to bring the diagram home). I can't wait... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One strange thing was that the X3T emitter came off of the star board very easily! While I desolder one lead, I lift up on it slightly with a toothpick to separate it. Well, the whole emitter came up! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif There is some kind of thermal adhesive on the bottom of the emitter, but barely any and it *wasn't* stuck to the Al star board very well at all!

Also, the SN on my star board was 0000452, otherwise it reads the same as the ones hotbeam posted here. Must have been the batch immediately following the ones all the MR-Xers got, as it was made the same week (1503 - 15th week of '03). /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## IsaacHayes (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

!! so you found one! wonder where you got it.....


----------



## LEDmodMan (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Isaac,
See my post on 10/16 at 16:45 CDST on this thread.

I am bound and gagged... Really, I can't say anything, so don't ask. Sorry. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

There a few other X bins running around CPF too, in case you didn't know.


----------



## LEDmodMan (Oct 28, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Oh, and in case there were any skeptics:






And here it is seen with my "mag-a-zine":





/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## Homebrew (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Well,

The prototype batteries from my manufacturer finally arrived. I have some fine details to resolve before the battery will be available for production.

nominal Specifications: Voltage 7.2 volts @ 5.0 Amps
Capacity 4.6 AH (4600 mah)

Service Range: 8.2 volts (Full) 6.4 (empty)

Internal CHARGE & DISCHARGE circuitry (I/C's)

BATTERY SHUTS ITSELF OFF TO AVOID DEEP DISCHARGE.

2 Runs: (Remember I run my MR-X at 1030ma.)

Start 8.2 Volts Finish 6.4 Volts (battery shuts itself off)

RUN TIME: 5 hours 10 minutes !!!

MR-X NEVER LEFT REGULATION! 

MR-X NEVER WENT OVER 105 Deg F.

EACH RUN TERMINATED BY BATTERY AUTO SHUTDOWN.

It sat there so long on it's tail cap running full bright one was tempted to look for the line cord!


Who could ask for anything more! One could even run this pack at 1.5 amps and still have three hours of regulation!

Lithium Ion's rock, they are just really dangerous and must not be experimented with without protection circuits. The prototype wait time was really with the results in my book. I will have more info and availability of the battery as soon as I work out a couple of fit problems. The units currently fit snug and could cause the insulating shrink wrap to wear excessively due to recharge removal leading to a short circuit around the protection. This would be very very bad and result in total destruction of the ontario cylander and the hot lips as it was projected through the reflector and lexan lense.

The battery unit looks much like a mag light stick only much lighter and is the ultimate answer to the MR-X power supply. I will post a picture soon and a basic schematic. The internal protection is connected to BOTH cells and is a multi-chip device simular to what is in laptop batteries.

It's really a sweet pack, and made to my specs by a MAJOR (REAL) BATTERY COMPANY! You will all recognize the name when I give the rest of the story, I just don't want the engineering department bombarded at this time since they agreed to take on this project out of empaty for us flashaholics! I even think I have a newbie interested on the engineering team, he may show up here with us.

Let me know if you are still following, it looks like this thread has gone cold.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

Respectfully, Dennis Lloyd /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


----------



## LEDmodMan (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Dennis,
Dang, 5 hours!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

That's frickin awesome!!! All in regulation too, that's what is really sweet! I'm afraid to ask cost though. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

My 12AA battery pack has worked very nicely so far in my 3D cell MR-X. The two banks at 9v (full) and nearly 3,000 mAh each give me about two full hours in regulation, and it's still going strong. I'm running at the stock 1.5A, and measured Vf of the X3T is right at 6.7v. This means it's running right at 10 Watts!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

When I turn it on right now, I get about 1 minute or so of regulation, then the indicator light comes on. I still don't really notice the light output diminishing though. I would bet I have put somewhere around 3.5 hours on this set of batteries. It's likely that I will change them soon, but I will probably let the light run them out just so I can see how much life is left in them. Probably do that this weekend, stay tuned...


----------



## shankus (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Yes, I'm still following developments in your battery pack.
5 hours is awesome.

Thanks for the update.


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Very interested, and waiting for more details!! $$? Even just a ballpark? Also, what are you using to charge the cells?


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Still listening, and like everyone else, am wondering what the cost might be, even if it's just a rough estimate? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

Also, to echo Phaserburn, how do you charge the Li-ion pack? How long does it take to reach a full charge?


----------



## Homebrew (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Guys,

The battery is expensive at this point because it is in prototype mode. They are costing me much more than I expect they will sell for. As with any product it is supply and demand that sets the price. I am sure Peter can attest to that. If all goes well maybee we can see this battery for a little under a $100.00. Keep in mind D lithiums retail around $70.00 each and this has two of them with special circuits in them.

THE BATTERY HAS TO HAVE THE PROTECTION TO SURVIVE ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE TWO IN SERIES LIKE THIS.

If you have a $200.00 + flashlight that is very hungry for energy the price will be acceptable. Just keep in mind, when it come time to do it, the more of you the better the price gets. I am not here to make a living on you guys but in the spirit of the CPF a Flashaholic myself. What ever the price, it's the price and it will depend on quantity.

I will handle the distribution if it becomes a hot item. Just understand, this is the PERFECT source for the 6.2 (or so) volt luxeon star and rechargeable at that.

Recharging is being done with my MH-C777PLUS-II Universal LCD Charger/Analyser/Conditioner.

Most of you guys have one I beleive. It is the best unit for the money on the market.

http://www.mahaenergy.com/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=185

The Charger will charge NiCD Ni-MH and Li-Ion, it charges Ni technology at 800ma but only charges Li-Ion at 400ma so it takes about 11 hours to charge this monster battery. Yes it could be done faster and must NOT exceed 2300 ma. BUT, I am told the batteries will last longer if charged with respect at normal rates.


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Respectfully, Dennis Lloyd


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Homebrew, is that under 100 for the 2 cells in a pack with circuitry? If so, the price may be reasonable. Do you know what the capacity of these cells are? Any idea of an ETA?


----------



## Homebrew (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Yes sir, I mean the PACK complete, I stated the capacity in the original post. It is 4.6 Amp Hours or 4600Mah at the rated discharge of 5 amps.

The computed capacity at MY MR-X's 1030 ma. worked out to 5.25 Amperer Hours or 5225 Mha.

As you probably know, as you increase the discharge rate of a battery it's efficiency drops and the total capacity is lower.


Dennis ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif need the shades the light is to bright!


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Very good! Didn't hear about that ETA, though...?


----------



## Homebrew (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Looks like it could be a Pre Christmas release, have to rework the fit a bit as I stated in the results post.

Let Us Pray that it makes it at least for a first run.

I WILL LET ALL KNOW WHEN THE TIME COMES TO LINE UP.

We need a finished and tested product before we can call the run date or take a roll of who wants them.

I just posted the great results of the prototype units because I felt some of you might think I dropped the project. It just takes time to get a large company to do the project, they came through and sooner than they said. I am excited with the performance.

DO YOU REALIZE this is a 40 WATT battery !!! That's a lot of power in a 2 cell flashlight. You can't get a higher power density with current technology that doesn't need shielding! (eh-eh)/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hahaha.gif

Dennis ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## MR Bulk (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Wow, we certainly live in exciting times. Thanks Homebrew!


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

40 Watts?! Imagine an HID with that thing! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/drool.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

VERY VERY good news Homebrew. Well worth the wait to hear such great results. 40W /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif and it's just 2 D-cell size! 

A serious battery for a serious light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## G Pilot (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Can anyone tell me the difference between a X3T and X3V binned luxeons?
Thanks


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 20, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

*G Pilot*, that's easy! The last letter of the bin code refers to the Vf of the emitter. In other words, it gives us a hint of how much voltage is required to make the emitter light up. So an X3T will run at a lower voltage than an X3V, because "T" signifies lower Vf than "V."

It's a little strange, because these emitters are "current driven" devices, meaning the thing they care most about is how much current flows through them, not how much voltage they encounter! That said, they still need a particular minimum voltage or they essentially won't operate at all, which is what that "T" or "V" designation refers to.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Homebrew,

Still here too.

The thing with MRX is that if there are advancements in the LS 5W technology to give higher lumen vs current efficiency you can just swap the LED as the years roll on, even if it means a slightly different LED voltage or current for the LED. If you like the beam shape a-la Mag then this would be the torch you'll own for years, so the initial cost of the batteries over such time would fade into distant memory and become very cost effective.

I'm certainly interested in 5hr runtimes!

Chris


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circuit?*

Hotbeam, - How do you remove the hotlips on MR-X without wrecking it? I'd like to see about turning mine down from 1.5A, but don't want to damage the unit. What do you recommend?


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
A few of you have asked for instructions on how to reduce the current the MR-X feeds to the X3T. I'll bet it has something to do with Homebrew's post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well... here they are: 

*Removing MR Hotlips from the OA2D*
<ul type="square">[*]Use a thin but strong blade to separate the lips on the Hotlips from the rim of the OA2D. 
[*]Once you have a ~1mm gap, insert a flat head screwdriver or similar in between and twist SLOWLY until the gap widens to ~5mm. Try not to damage the lips on the MR Hotlips.
[*]Grip the Hotlips with a rubber glove or equivalent and SLOW wiggle it away from the OA2D rim until it dislodges. You will see 4 wires: blue, white, red and black
[*]CAREFULLY lay the MR Hotlips with the circuit showing on a soft, padded surface. Remember the X3T is on the other side!!!
[*]You will also see the brownish thermal conducting material around the rim of the Hotlips. Put this away for the moment. You will need it again when you put the MR Hotlips back
[/list] 

*Changing the drive current *
<ul type="square">[*]Measure the voltage between the switch negative and the FET source with a DMM. You will get 225mV. See diagram for component location.
[*]Use a 2mm jewel screwdriver to DECREASE the current drive on the MR-X by turning the potentiometer ANTI-CLOCKWISE.
[*]To set the current exactly, you need 3 hands /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. With the DMM in place and its readout visible, turn the pot ANTI-CLOCKWISE until the voltage reading matches those below. Do this reasonably QUICKLY as you will feel the Hotlips start to get warm after ~30-60secs.
[*]1.5A, 22.5mV
1.25A, 18.75mV
1A,15mV
750mA, 11.25mV
[/list] 







*Reinstalling the MR Hotlips*
<ul type="square">[*]CAREFULLY place the MR Hotlips back into the OA2D to ensure the wires fit nicely
[*]Remove the MR Hotlips again and now wrap the thermally conductive strip around the side of the Hotlips, giving it enough tension so that it will fit back into the OA2D.
[*]That's it!
[/list] 


PS. You should be relatively savvy with using simple tools, have a steady hand and know how to use the DMM. Please be careful. You are modifying this at your own risk. Send it to me or a competent fellow MR-Xer if you want a hand.




[/ QUOTE ]

Here yer go Phaser. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thanks, Hotbeam. Why would you think it had anything to do with Homebrew's posts?! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif To me, li-ion D's are the Holy Grail of MR-X power sources.


----------



## LEDmodMan (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Not to be a killjoy, but Homebrew meant to say 40 Watt-hours, not 40 Watts. And, it's actually more like 37W-h max, and 36W-h nominal. That's still pretty impressive though! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

To put this into perspective, a single D cell is 18Ah at 1.5v. Now knowing how alkalines behave, you know that they rarely put out 1.5v under load. So even at 1v under load, two D batteries are also 36W-h. The biggest difference between the two battery types is that the D cells can't provide nearly the amount of current that the Li-Ions can, and their voltage sags tremendously where the Li-ions don't. Plus the Li-ions are rechargeable! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

One other thing I found interesting is that homebrew's light ran for 5hrs, 10min on his Li-ion battery with his LS sucking 1030mA all the while. Without taking into account current draw in the regulator (and the fact that this is a voltage dropping reg), his battery actually seems to have more capacity than claimed:

5.167hr @ 1030mA = 5.322Ah which is 15.7% more capacity than claimed.

Could this have to do with the voltage regulator? I suppose it could since when the battery voltage is higher than the Vf of the LED, you actually suck less current from the battery than is delivered to the LED in proportion to the two voltages (conservation of energy). So at 8.2v battery voltage (and assuming a Vf of 6.7v which mine is):

6.7/8.2 = x/1030 -----> x=841.6mA which is 18.3% less

So I suppose this could account for the difference in capacity, not accounting for MR circuit losses. That turned into a real ramble, didn't it? I'll shut up now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon23.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Good observations, LMM.


----------



## AilSnail (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

isn't the cirquit just a power transistor with controlling mechanism? If so then it acts like a resistor in line with the led right?
Then I think the full current (1030mA) has to flow through both the transistor and the led. Assuming your numbers are correct, then (8.2-6.7)*1.03=1.545 Watt of heat is generated in the transistor.

Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

The MR is a linear regulation circuit. It limits current flow to the preset amount until the batteries can no longer supply that level of current flow, at which point the regulator essentially goes into direct drive.

As for the voltage, in a linear regulation circuit the excess voltage (the amount above Vf) is dissipated as heat somewhere, most likely in the FET.

The upshot of all this is that the regulation circuit does NOT draw less current when excess voltage is present, it generates more heat. (Incidentally, this is the reason that Burnt and Hotbeam have been telling us to try for an input voltage close to the Vf of the LED.)

So the discrepancy between Homebrew's reported runtime and Li-ion specifications remains. But couldn't there be a simpler explanation... that the specs are conservative?


----------



## LEDmodMan (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Could be, I was just theorizing and making it as difficult as I could... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*THE CHALLENGE!*

Anyone have the facility to do a side by side test with my personal MR-X against the $1550 PK1? I'll send it to you IF you can get the PK1, you promise to document everything and post the results. Oh, and send it back to me within 1 week of receiving it. 

The testing should include:

- RUNTIME in regulation, hhmm
- RUNTIME total (or until 450lux), hhmm
- LUX max at 1m
- THROW visual (shine on reflector on road)
- Spill, photos
- _Anything else?_

And photos, lots of photos. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

PS. Guard it (them) with YOUR LIFE.


:Hotbeam secretly turns up his MR-X to 2A: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Sway (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hmmm,

- THROW visual (shine on reflector on road)

Howard just make sure they have enough room to park low flying aircraft /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


----------



## Phaserburn (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam, I was thinking the same thing. Let's let the Photon King 1 and MR-X duke it out!!


----------



## shankus (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I think the MR-X is superior in every way, except physical construction of the body and possibly throw.

The MR-X should be brighter, as it's driven harder. And it has the edge of when it falls out of regulation, it will still produce light. 
The PK1 is current regulated, so it will just go off when the cells can't keep anymore, right?

The price difference is of course, absurdly large.

The MR-X uses extremely common, inexpensive cells, and can use carbon-zinc, alkaline, NiCD, NiMH and now Li-ION.

Perhaps the MagDaddy head will be available in a configuration that will work with the MR-X, will be focusable, and sport the 3" orange peel reflector. Then the throw will be on par with the PK1. 

The MR-X isn't nearly as pilferable. It looks like a common $16 flashlight. 

Did I miss anything?


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ok CatDaddy, have a play with your PK1 for a few days and let's both send it to someone who can manage the duel /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

You may ask "Why?" Just because... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## DaMeatMan (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Please forgive me if this is a little off topic, but i was wondering if anyone knows where i could purchase a AA to 3D battery holder for use in a 3D Mag with a 5 watt star. If could get my hands on such a battery holder i would definately be interested in a MR. I already have the hotlips D and a w5 binned 5 watt star.


----------



## shankus (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
You may ask "Why?"

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey, why ask why? I like it!



[ QUOTE ]
*DaMeatMan said:*
...i was wondering if anyone knows where i could purchase a AA to 3D battery holder for use in a 3D Mag with a 5 watt star.

[/ QUOTE ]
ElektroLumens has 3-to-D adaptors, and 6-AA-to-D adaptors.
The last I read, there were many members concerned because the resistance in the 3-to-D adaptor was high enoough, that it was limiting current to their high powered incandescent bulbs, and generating heat.
The 6-AA-to-D adaptor has no problems that I've heard of. I have a lambda Megaclops 5W, and an MR-X 5W that both use one.
I'm not sure if there has been a fix yet, but a search of the ElektroLumens forum would turn up an answer.

Also, there were some 4-AA-to-D adaptors made by a member here. They are all gone now, but he has offered the plans and materials info to anyone that wants to make some more.

Check ths thread:
Any interest in a 4AA to D adapter?


----------



## Kiessling (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

cool pic hotbeam! we're not a very big family ...yet
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernie


----------



## frogmonk (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hotbeam,

I'm ready to for the next run.. I'm in on the list when you're ready to go back into production. Thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Interesting how the eastern part of North America has most of the MR-X that are on that continent. Normally our friends on the west coast seem to get all the cool lights! For once we appear to be one up on them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Pi_is_blue (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Only 2 of us in the Western US?! I feel special! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## DaMeatMan (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*shankus said:*
ElektroLumens has 3-to-D adaptors, and 6-AA-to-D adaptors.
The last I read, there were many members concerned because the resistance in the 3-to-D adaptor was high enoough, that it was limiting current to their high powered incandescent bulbs, and generating heat.
The 6-AA-to-D adaptor has no problems that I've heard of. I have a lambda Megaclops 5W, and an MR-X 5W that both use one.
I'm not sure if there has been a fix yet, but a search of the ElektroLumens forum would turn up an answer.

Also, there were some 4-AA-to-D adaptors made by a member here. They are all gone now, but he has offered the plans and materials info to anyone that wants to make some more.

Check ths thread:
Any interest in a 4AA to D adapter?  

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks shankus that's exactly what i was looking for, i've tried my hand at my own 4AA to D with a stock 4AA battery holder, but had a hell of a time trying to get it all to fit. This looks like exactly what i need, and seems fairly simple to do to. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif Thanks for the info /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## shankus (Nov 29, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

You're welcome. Also, check this out:
Bright 9v, 5W SE mod using 12 AAs(yes, that's 12!)  

I guess it's you and me on the west coast, Pi.


----------



## Phaserburn (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Homebrew, any updates on those D LiIons?


----------



## PeterB (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Very nice brethren Pic! And mine is almost in the middle /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

ah ... so the only Europeans of the family are two Germans then ... Peter and me! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
when my repaired beauty will arrive in a few days I'll be complete once more ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*DaMeatMan:* Thanks Shankus

*shankus:* Just had a few spare moments. I have wanted to do this a couple of months before. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*kiessling:* Not a big family yet. Hopefully one day soon we can add another 50-100 brothers and sisters to the map? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*frogmonk:* Thanks for the vote of confidence. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif As soon as certain Luxeons present themselves to me...

*milky:* Yeah... that's one reason I thought a map would be handy... to see the distribution lumens. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*pi:* Yeah, only 2 of you so far. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*PeterB:* Right in the middle of the map. Can't remember whether you are the top right one or bottom left.

*kiessling:* Shouldn't be too long now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif


----------



## darkzero (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Is the MR more a voltage of current regulator? Or what I'm trying find out is, will 12v be safe to run with MR. I want to power it up with 4x123. I remember reading in this thread somewhere that the range for the MR is 5-20v. I don't have time to read all 28 pages again and want to be sure before I feed the MR the juice. Appreciate if anyone could tell me the facts.


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hello Darkzero, the MR is a current regulator. The caveat is the input voltage should be close to the voltage of the 5 watt LED. Excess voltage is simply lost as heat making the body warmer than it needs to be. 5-20V is correct. That is what the IC can handle. Use 3 x 123 as a maximum or 6 x NiMh or 2 x 3.6v Li-ions. Alks or ZnCs will also work but regulation time will be very short. You could also parallel 3 x 123s. Hope this helps.


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Howard ... you forgot 6xL91 ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ... no. I won't stop using them!
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/twakfl.gif kiessling /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. What ever pleases you /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Are you still getting those ridiculously long runtimes with L91s and ALKALINES??? 

If so, send it back to me and I will swap mine for yours /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

hotbeam, I ran my little monster about 17min straight on 6 new L91s without the DDLED coming on ... will report back soon /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

ok ... here's what happened:

after reading my posts about long runtimes with L91s and some flickering going on when in DD mode, hotbeam made the generous offer to look after my little killer light and checked if everything was alright. he fixed the issue, it was a loose solder contact, sent it back and would not accept me to cover his expenses even after some serious threats ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif ... what a man!

since this offer seemed too good to be true, I suspected that all this was a worldwide conspiracy to reduce my L91 runtime and force me to use those rechargable batteries ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif ... argh!

did my first test with my newborn light these days and got the following:

1. it is in DD mode for about 15 min now ... no flickering. so far so good. hotbeam was right and the flickering was not normal for this circuit when falling out of regulation (in oppostion to my other regulated lights). after a bit of thinking on my side this sounds logical now since it is supposed to be in Charlie Mode ... my bad /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

2. of course I immediately put in my beloved L91s to see what evil he had done to my runtime, and got this:
- used it yesterday for 17min cont. on, no DD-LED
- continued today with continous full burn on the used batts and got ... sit down ... another 63min in regulation!!!!!
making it 80min total time in regulation with Energizer Lithium L91s. 
Yep! Bingo! Conspiracy failed! I have already forgotten that there are rechargables on this planet /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

At the end of the regulated runtime I was almost able to ignite my cigarettes on the bezel of the light, it was a little bit hot by then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif, but survived.
The DD-LED came on and did not flicker once, it stayed on for the rest of the runtime.

And no, my MR-X is not for sale or trade, I really appreciate it even more now ... 80min ... mmmhhhh ....

An explanation I cannot offer though.

bernhard


----------



## darkzero (Dec 5, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
Hello Darkzero, the MR is a current regulator. The caveat is the input voltage should be close to the voltage of the 5 watt LED. Excess voltage is simply lost as heat making the body warmer than it needs to be. 5-20V is correct. That is what the IC can handle. Use 3 x 123 as a maximum or 6 x NiMh or 2 x 3.6v Li-ions. Alks or ZnCs will also work but regulation time will be very short. You could also parallel 3 x 123s. Hope this helps. 

[/ QUOTE ]

thanx that did help. You recommend using 3x123, so if I use 4x123 I won't get a bit longer runtime, just extra heat? I want to use the 4x123 setup cause I have an extra 4x123 battery holder that's from Silver's Mini-HID and would like to use it in a shortened OAD. So am I better off using the battery holder with a dummy 123 than using 4x123?
txs


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

If you definately want to use 4x123, you can. Everytime you go to put 4 fresh 123s into your holder, put 3 in and put the other one in a box labelled "Ship to Hotbeam when full" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/naughty.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Seriously, use a dummy 123. Otherwise, you'll just be heating up the circuit unnecessarily, without adding to runtime nor brightness.


----------



## darkzero (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

thanx for making that clear. Taking you advice I'll do that, err except the box that's labelled "Ship to Hotbeam when full" will probably never make it to the post office, unless I hit the Lottery or something. Appreciate it.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Kiessling,

Are you absolutely sure the runtime on the used batts was 63 mins?

Was the light as bright during the second run?

There seems to be something odd here. Firstly I wouldn't have thought those batteries could possibly have so much energy and that something has gone wrong and you were getting less current. What makes it odd is that you commented on how hot the whole thing was after 63 mins suggesting power was indeed being drawn from somewhere and dissipated. To be 'hot' you would need about the full power as per normal operation, so where was the power coming from?..... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

It would be really nice if you could beg/borrow/buy a current meter, remove the tailcap of the mag and connect the current meter (10A range) between the battery negative and the body of the torch. If indeed you get 1.5A for that long, then I'll be a convert to lithium AA's /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Chris


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Chris, I am positively sure about the runtime, I couldn't believe it myself when the DD-LED would'nt turn on for ages /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Why do you think those batteries have no power? They are rated at 2700mAh which should be considerably more than with your NiMh that should be about 2200mAh top. They have a higher voltage, too, the only thing is that your NiMh's have a ower internal resistance.
Hotbeam said that he tuned my MR-X to 1.52A

Hasn't anybody else tried his MR-X with L91's?

When I should find the time I'll get a current meter ...

bernhard


----------



## milkyspit (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt*, if memory serves, Energizer E2 lithium AA cells are rated 3000mAh, which in theory would drive MR-X for two hours if you could get them to deliver all that energy at constant voltage. Of course you can't, but I could totally be led to believe that Bernhard got 63 minutes and more out of them. Maybe his LED has a slightly lower Vf, too, which would help matters.

As far as the heat, that would be the difference between Vf and the 9V or so that his cells deliver, and if I'm understanding the MR circuit correctly, a lower than average Vf would mean more heat dissipated in the regulator, so this seems totally consistent, too.

*Bernhard*, hotbeam did some testing with lithium AA's and got disappointing results. I never thought about it before, but maybe the Vf on his emitter is above average and Vf on yours is below average. He probably kept the brightest X3T for himself, right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I have a hunch that the brightest X3T might have a higher Vf than the others. More energy... more light!


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

... meaning I got the crappiest, hm? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Well, either way, I like it this way and will continue to use L91s, but I think we simply cannot determine wether this runtime should be normal or not since there have only been three sets ever run through an MR-X, one in hotbeam's and two in mine. Either result doesn't prove anything IMHO.
Did I say I like mine this way?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*milkey:* Perhaps it is a combination of all variables /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

*kiessling:* Just as well you like L91s /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## DaMeatMan (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Is the Magic Resistor available for sale on it's own yet?? And if so how much does it cost, i would love to have a couple of these puppies. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 6, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Meatman... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif There is an old price in the first thread. When run #2 happens, there should be some for sale indiviudually. Remember, the MR is a high power unit and can handle happily up to 3A.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Milky,

That's 63 minutes from batteries that were already flattened to DD LED point the night before. Correct me if I'm wrong Kiessling?

I'm wondering if it has to do with the "?" effect (can't remember the name) - the coating on the plates that after storage needs a small burn-in to remove before full capacity is reached with lithiums. Perhaps this was not able to remove whilst high current was being drawn reducing what the battery could give, yet after a rest the layer was able to remove thereby exposing the full contact area and therefore capacity?

I must try some. As expensive experiment, but worth it for long term storage/infrequent use applications.

Kiessling,

Regardless of each persons personal preferences of battery, if you are happy with the light output and runtime, then I am happy too.

Chris


----------



## milkyspit (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Burnt*, the effect is called "passivation." I'm hardly an expert on the phenomenon, but what you suggest is possible. That dip in Hotbeam's original U5U runtime graph has always been of interest to me, and passivation might explain it.

I also suspect that Vf of the emitter has something to do with things. The lithium AA's should give a flat voltage during discharge, but if that voltage is slightly BELOW the required Vf the DD indicator will be on the entire time. On the other hand, if the voltage is slightly ABOVE required Vf we're in for a long ride in regulation.

Maybe some of each phenomenon. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

As an aside, I happen to think lithium AA's aren't as well suited for high current draw as 123's are. I suspect it's the fault of the "AA" architecture, which probably optimizes overall capacity over spewing out all the stored energy at once. Still, a lithium AA will run rings around an alkaline AA. Meanwhile, the lithium AA's don't seem to have the same tendency for spontaneous failure that 123's have. (Ever notice how a 123-based light can work fine one night, then when you turn it on the next night it's dead?)

Given the above, you may be right, lithium AA's might be THE best choice for long term storage with reliability, more so than even 123 cells. In my experience, it seems to be the most stable battery architecture around. Bernhard's onto something! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now a question for you, Burnt: if MR-X doesn't get hot when running in regulation with NiMH but does get hot when using something else, like Li-ion or 123 cells, does that suggest the heat's NOT coming from the emitter, but from the regulator itself? That's what the evidence seems to say to me, the rationale being that under regulation the emitter's got to be getting the same power (wattage), and hence generating the same amount of heat, in all cases. If so, that would be good news, as it means those "hot" batteries aren't cooking my precious X3T emitter!


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Burnt, you're wrong here, sorry for being unclear!
I used the light for 17 minutes in the first night _without_ the DD-LED coming on, I had to stop the test because I had to go to bed /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
the second night I continued with the same batteries that had never reached DD and got another 63 minutes in regulation before the DD-LED finally came on. By that time I was barely able to touch the bezel for a few seconds.

WIll do an alkaline test ... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*Kiessling said:*
... By that time I was barely able to touch the bezel for a few seconds....


[/ QUOTE ]

Bernie, THAT'S one way to kill your Luxies /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

tried it with Duracell ProCell Alkalines and got 6min continous burn untill the DD LED came on. Same results as before the fix. Alkies are obviously not the way to go. Just in case you didn't already know. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Howard, is this too much for the poor thing? The L4 gets that hot, too. Should I stop doing that? 

bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

6 mins with the ALKS. Even that is amazing. Must be something they put in batteries that go to the 'Old World' /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Now, try some Old World 2000+mAh NiMh. Maybe you'll get 2 hours from one set /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Too much? Well, you are putting ~10w of power to the LED for 1 hour and without ventilation (I presume it is just sitting there on your table or something)... How would you feel? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif If there was any light you want to do this test to, a Hotlipped light would be it. That you can rest assure about. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif That L4 you tested... once or twice would be ok but continued tests like that surely does the light no good.

When you use it in real life, your hand takes a good lot of heat away. Also the air convection due to movement also reduce heat. Sitting there stationery... well... now that you have done it, there is probably no need to do it again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

But then.... *IT'S YOUR LIGHT* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

ok, got the hint /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
no free new X3T emitter should I smoke this one ...

seriously now ... what runtimes do YOU get with L91s and Alks?
maybe I am just mad or stupid or both?

bernhard


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*milkey:*

[ QUOTE ]
Now a question for you, Burnt: if MR-X doesn't get hot when running in regulation with NiMH but does get hot when using something else, like Li-ion or 123 cells, does that suggest the heat's NOT coming from the emitter, but from the regulator itself? That's what the evidence seems to say to me, the rationale being that under regulation the emitter's got to be getting the same power (wattage), and hence generating the same amount of heat, in all cases. If so, that would be good news, as it means those "hot" batteries aren't cooking my precious X3T emitter!


[/ QUOTE ]

I'll let Burnt answer this one in full Milkey /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif but there are really 2 issues here... 
1. Heat from excess/wasted voltage (L91s) ---> heat here comes from the FET + emitter 
2. Heat from runtime build-up (NiMh, Li-ions) ---> heat here is predominantly from emitter.


*kiessling:*

Silly? No one is silly here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Runtime, cant remember now but NO WHERE near as long as what you are getting.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Kiessling,

I stand corrected on using flattened L91's. Now I really must try some.

Milky,

Hotbeam pretty much summed it up, but for the record:

The MR is specifically designed with batteries with low voltage overhead where a switching circuit just can't keep up for efficiency eg NiMH's especially, or 2 X Li-Ions (7.2V or less under load of 1.5A).

It is a linear circuit.

Using either NiMH's, Li-Ions, alkalines, and zinc carbon the heat is pretty much all from the LED ie 10W 10W with DD LED NOT on, less with it on.

Using 6 X L91 lithiums in series the voltage overhead is greater, perhaps a couple of volts under a load of 1.5A. This results in a larger voltage drop across the MR and therefore more heat from the MR. I have not tried L91's, but suspect a couple of watts is 'lost' - being dropped across the MR. A couple of watts sounds bad, but that adds up to 83% efficient. It's not too bad, but hitting the point a switching buck converter may be better, if only one were available for this current. Of course a buck wouldn't cut it with NiMH's or perhaps even Li-Ions for the efficiency of MR. In either case, all heat you feel is from LED and/or LED + MR (lithiums).

That being said, 123's may fair better as they seem to have a tendency to limit the maximum current they can supply to around the 1.5A mark on average. They seem, at high currents at least, to give the characteristics of having high internal impedance so 3 X 123's may not get as hot as 6 X L91's? I haven't tried either so I'm going on what I've read.

In short, re "if MR-X doesn't get hot when running in regulation with NiMH but does get hot when using something else, like Li-ion or 123 cells, does that suggest the heat's NOT coming from the emitter, but from the regulator itself?" .....correct, but 10 W is comming from the emitter regardless of batteries but only when the the DD LED is NOT on. If the DD LED is on then as close to 100% as you'll get is coming from the LED (<10W). Under ANY condition, no more than 10W will be dissipated by the LED, give or take a tad for variation in Vf's (MR regulates current).

Hope I didn't prattle on too much.

Chris


----------



## LEDmodMan (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hey, I'm not on the map!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mecry.gif

Of course, mine is not a TK unit, and I am using a 3 cell OAD body running 12 Kirkland Signature alkaline AA's serial/parallel for two 9v banks.

BTW, the two banks of 6 AA's seem to work pretty dang well. I got around two hours + regulated before the DD LED came on. Mind you that this was not constant on, but a bit of use every night for about a week. I still haven't changed the batteries, as the light still seems to be nearly as bright as when in regulation. It has easily seen five hours of use by now, probably more. However, it still seems pretty dang bright. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif

My theory on this is that the light should remain in regulation until the batteries reach approximately 1.1 volts each (my X3T's Vf is 6.7v and the batts. measured just under 1.1v each when the DD LED came on). Energizer states that AA's can provide 1A for for one hour, and at the end of that time, the batteries will be at 0.8v. Along those same lines, they can provide about 800mA for about an hour and end at 1.0v. I think what I'm trying to say is that one bank of alkaline AA's just can't cut it, but when you have two bank's in parallel to share the load, they hold up MUCH better!

Based on these specs, and the 5.7Ah capacity of the 12 AA's (2850mAh for each bank) my batteries must be on their last leg. I'll have to take them out and measure them now, but they still seem to be working OK...

Maybe it's because even if they can only put out 350mA per bank, that's still 700mA to the X3T which is stiil running at spec. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif

All I can say is that I am a happy camper... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

MR-X rules!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/buttrock.gif


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

LEDmodMan,

Five hours is a long time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

If you can handle the charging of NiMH's though I'd still recommend those from a cost perspective as you enter the short day's of winter. You seem to like using the MR-X, and why not - it's intended to be used frequently. With your usage NiMH's would pay for themselves over the coming winter easily. Stick to 6 X NiMH's - it's all that is required. 

The alkalines do indeed drag on for a looooong time. Your thoughts re current capability for 2 banks vs 1 and current vs brightness is correct. You'll find good usable light right down to about 100 - 200mA drive so you have a way to go yet before changing them. Fortunately the MR will be about 99.5% efficient once the DD LED comes on so happily drain those alkalines right down to the last drop knowing it's all LS light you're getting for the power being drained with no waste /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Chris


----------



## hotbeam (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Wylie, see the graph on the first page.


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
A few of you have asked for instructions on how to reduce the current the MR-X feeds to the X3T. I'll bet it has something to do with Homebrew's post. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well... here they are: 

*Removing MR Hotlips from the OA2D*
<ul type="square">[*]Use a thin but strong blade to separate the lips on the Hotlips from the rim of the OA2D.  [*]Once you have a ~1mm gap, insert a flat head screwdriver or similar in between and twist SLOWLY until the gap widens to ~5mm. Try not to damage the lips on the MR Hotlips. [*]Grip the Hotlips with a rubber glove or equivalent and SLOW wiggle it away from the OA2D rim until it dislodges. You will see 4 wires: blue, white, red and black [*]CAREFULLY lay the MR Hotlips with the circuit showing on a soft, padded surface. Remember the X3T is on the other side!!! [*]You will also see the brownish thermal conducting material around the rim of the Hotlips. Put this away for the moment. You will need it again when you put the MR Hotlips back
[/list] 

*Changing the drive current *
<ul type="square">[*]Measure the voltage between the switch negative and the FET source with a DMM. You will get 225mV. See diagram for component location. [*]Use a 2mm jewel screwdriver to DECREASE the current drive on the MR-X by turning the potentiometer ANTI-CLOCKWISE. [*]To set the current exactly, you need 3 hands /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. With the DMM in place and its readout visible, turn the pot ANTI-CLOCKWISE until the voltage reading matches those below. Do this reasonably QUICKLY as you will feel the Hotlips start to get warm after ~30-60secs. [*]1.5A, 22.5mV
1.25A, 18.75mV
1A,15mV
750mA, 11.25mV
[/list] 







*Reinstalling the MR Hotlips*
<ul type="square">[*]CAREFULLY place the MR Hotlips back into the OA2D to ensure the wires fit nicely [*]Remove the MR Hotlips again and now wrap the thermally conductive strip around the side of the Hotlips, giving it enough tension so that it will fit back into the OA2D. [*]That's it!
[/list] 


PS. You should be relatively savvy with using simple tools, have a steady hand and know how to use the DMM. Please be careful. You are modifying this at your own risk. Send it to me or a competent fellow MR-Xer if you want a hand.





[/ QUOTE ]


Here you go DZ. Getting the photo for you. Somehow, it has expired /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## darkzero (Feb 1, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Appreciate it HT, I was starting to go through this thread again & took a break. It's very time consuming although I did learn alot more great things about the MR-X.

Whew, you saved the day!

Many thanks! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

dz... found a copy of the annotated component diagram


----------



## darkzero (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

great HT, saving it to my hard drive in case it gets offline again.

One thing, the instructions say to "Measure the voltage between the switch negative and the FET source with a DMM. You will get 225mV". That's a misprint right? I'm pretty sure it is but just making sure. It's refering to 22.5mV for 1.5A correct?

Thanks for everything....appreciate the great help!

-WC-


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Ooops... should be 22.5mV /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

A MR-X has come home /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Well, home country anyhow... Welcome Shannow /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## shannow (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

WOOOHOOOO! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


----------



## Kiessling (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

that was quick !
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
bernie


----------



## shankus (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I made a lanyard for my MR-X out of stuff from the berkeley point group buy.
It just cinches on with a loop spliced at the end. 
That loop that the mini-clip is clipped to, is spliced into the lanyard.
I like how the colors matched (by default), but it's a pity, because I don't carry or use the MR-X. The lanyard does see use on my MagCharger.

I can also be used to swing the light quite hard.


----------



## Burnt_Retinas (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Shankus,

What is your preference for carrying the MagCharger over the MRX?

Just curious...

Chris


----------



## shankus (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I just don't use the MR-X. I don't want to sctratch it up, or damage it. I guess it's more like a showpiece, than a worklight.

The Magcharger is inexpensive & very bright, although the color and shape of the beam leave much to be desired.


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Shankus, you're certainly entitled to use whatever works for you. It's just sad (to me) that your MR-X doesn't see more service. It's lighter, smaller, and longer running than the MagCharger. I have one of each myself, but save the MagCharger for the times when I need a way powerful, long THROWING beam. It throws a beam WAY down the road! Almost like a spotlight disguised as a regular flashlight. (Note that I'm running a WA01160 bulb in my MagCharger.)

I use my MR-X in little bits here and there. For doing anything outside at night, from taking out the trash to investigating a strange noise near the fence, it never lets me down.

Although I am pretty careful about not dropping it for fear of scratches. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Maybe I'd better look into a lanyard like yours...


----------



## SKYWLKR (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Wow is this thing still available?

and is a Kit available to? I would love to have this on a 5-6 cell D


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

SKYWLKR, I assume you mean the MR-X flashlight, not Shankus' lanyard... right? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif There were approximately 15 MR-X lights made and Hotbeam can't put any more together due to lack of availability of the key component: an X3T emitter. However, in theory you could put your own light together using a similar design but different emitter. You'd need a Hotlips-D heatsink, the host flashlight of course, and one of Burnt_Retinas' "Magic Resistor" (MR) circuits. I'm not sure if there are any more MR circuit kits floating around anywhere, but if you ask Burnt *very* nicely, there's always a chance he could help you out.


----------



## shankus (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I do occasionally use it around the house, like you said, but it sounds like not as often as you do.

I have the 01160 in mine as well, and soon to have either the Magcharger PMR/OP or MagCharger Mag Daddy on it.

The MR-X is a fine light indeed. I also still toy with the idea of replacing the red LED with a RGB color shifter, but I've been afraid to try. I think I remember Hotbeam telling me that it may or may not be epoxied in place. 
Mine seems to have clear RTV, or something like it covering the LED. 
I have successfully "turned down" one of the LEDs by locking it into the collet of my Dremel, and turning it against a file. I don't know how to polish the plastic afterwards, either. And I can't muster up the fortitude to break into the MR-X.


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Say, that's a great idea for turning down an LED! Gotta try it sometime. Thanks dude! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Regarding MR-X... I've got a spare MR circuit board kit, and have long struggled with a good idea for what to do with it. I think I've finally got it! I want to get a VERY good LuxIII emitter (U bin?) and build a MR-U in a shortened Mag 2D, powered by 4AA NiMH rechargeables in one of Chief_Wiggum's 4AA-to-D adapters. The result would be something roughly the size of a Blaster Jr., but with absolutely MONSTER throw and a smaller form factor... though it wouldn't provide all that wonderful spill that the MR-X does.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


----------



## SKYWLKR (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

what kind of out put would a V3U get with that driver?

I'm asuming that I wount be able to push it to the X MA rating


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

SKYWLKR, to be honest, I'm too lazy at the moment to lookup the lumens output of each bin code, but I can tell you that many of the Space Needle II lights that MR Bulk used to make contain V2T emitters. The V part is what determines the luminosity (in other words, brightness) of the LED. I'd guess you could drive your V3U at 1.5A without too much difficulty by regulating it with a MR circuit, and you'd get something at least as bright as a Space Needle II. My guess would be that you'd end up with a light pumping out roughly 7000 lux, as opposed to the 10,000-12,000 lux that the MR-X generates. Remember that 7000 lux still ain't bad! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## Justintoxicated (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
Say, that's a great idea for turning down an LED! Gotta try it sometime. Thanks dude! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink2.gif

Regarding MR-X... I've got a spare MR circuit board kit, and have long struggled with a good idea for what to do with it. I think I've finally got it! I want to get a VERY good LuxIII emitter (U bin?) and build a MR-U in a shortened Mag 2D, powered by 4AA NiMH rechargeables in one of Chief_Wiggum's 4AA-to-D adapters. The result would be something roughly the size of a Blaster Jr., but with absolutely MONSTER throw and a smaller form factor... though it wouldn't provide all that wonderful spill that the MR-X does.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

where to yu plan on getting the Unobtanium emitter from? THats a great Idea I would like to make one too...onyl in a 2C formatt on 2-3 123's


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*Justintoxicated said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*milkyspit said:*
Regarding MR-X... I've got a spare MR circuit board kit, and have long struggled with a good idea for what to do with it. I think I've finally got it! I want to get a VERY good LuxIII emitter (U bin?) and build a MR-U in a shortened Mag 2D, powered by 4AA NiMH rechargeables in one of Chief_Wiggum's 4AA-to-D adapters. The result would be something roughly the size of a Blaster Jr., but with absolutely MONSTER throw and a smaller form factor... though it wouldn't provide all that wonderful spill that the MR-X does.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

where to yu plan on getting the Unobtanium emitter from? THats a great Idea I would like to make one too...onyl in a 2C formatt on 2-3 123's 

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's the hard part. Might end up with a MR-T. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon15.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*Shankus/Milky:* To be honest, mine just sits on my shelf and every night when I take my door (**edit: DOG /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) out to do his business, my lights think to themselves "Who will it be tonight? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif". Most times now, it is the PM6/BB750/X3T or even the 3AA DD. The MR-X is simply TOO BRIGHT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Now and again, I bring out the MR-X and whenever it lights up, a grin appears across my face /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

*SkyWalker:* Assuming the MR (regulator) is available, a V3U @ 1.5A would still put out decent light. Remember though the brightness goes in the order of U, V, W then X /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

*Justintoxicated:* Now that JSBurly has Pila's availabe, the MR in a 2C (running 2 x Pila 150A/S) or in 3C body (running 2 x Pila 168A/S) would be mighty nice!!


----------



## shankus (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

A little grin appeared on my face, just thinking of your door doing it's business.


----------



## Justintoxicated (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

good to hear, what about a Mr.-X in a 2C on 3x123? Or is that not quite enough juice?


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Justintoxicated, I've done some runtime testing on various battery configurations with the MR-X. Yes, you could make it run with 3x123, but you'd only get about 20 minutes in regulation, though you'd continue to get a really good amount of light for probably another 20 minutes once out of regulation. IMHO it's not worth the effort to build a MR-X if you only plan to run it on 3x123... I'd just as soon build a standard Space Needle II direct drive light for that purpose.

On the other hand, it's a distinct possibility to build the MR circuit into a Blaster Jr., where you could perhaps run 4x123. I've never tried it, but it could probably be done. The 30mm optic in the Blaster Jr. packs a reall wallop output-wise.


----------



## darkzero (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Really that little runtime on 3x123? I guess AA NiMhs are the best way to go? L91s are too expensive. 

I have a spare 4x123 holder from Silver's Mini-HID Mag and was planning on using it in a cut down Mag (I'm building my own Mini-MR-X with the MR circuit and a X4T). Howard recommended me not to run the MR on 4x123. It wouldn't add to runtime and would just produce more heat. So I was planning on using the 4x123 holder with a dummy 123 but I would like to get more runtime than 20min of regulation. 

123s are too expensive to be getting only 20min. How much runtime (in regulation) does the MR-X get with AA NiMhs?

thx


----------



## shankus (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I have had 1 hr. 15 min. on Lenmar 2300 mAh NiMH AAs. 
The Battery Station has them for $2 apiece.

Keep in mind that the light will still be very bright, and will still have considerable runtime after regulation. It doesn't act like a current or voltage regulated device after regulation, it is direct drive.

It is the best of both worlds.


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

The thing about 3x123 is that the current flow to the emitter drops gradually, so even after the little red light turns on to show that you're no longer in regulation, you probably won't see the difference for a while. With NiMH, on the other hand, you're running on full output for an hour or more, then the red light comes on, then within maybe 15 minutes the light is essentially dead. It's a flatter discharge curve.

I wouldn't hesitate to use 3x123 in my MR-X in a pinch, but wouldn't go to the effort of designing such a light if it were to use ONLY 3x123.

As far as 4x123, Hotbeam is right... it will generate more heat. However, I think it would probably run in regulation for longer because the necessary forward voltage to the LED would be maintained for longer. I think voltage sag is the reason 3x123 drops out of regulation relatively quickly, and adding a fourth 123 cell could help with that, so long as you design things to handle the heat. This comes with a BIG DISCLAIMER, though, that I'm just speculating and have no actual test data to back up my theory at this point.

As for the Space Needle II, kind of an older cousin to MR-X, I think that's a case of a design in which all the elements come together just right to make the result better than the individual pieces. 3x123 is a nice match for a SNII, whereas it doesn't quite capture the same magic in a MR-X. But 6AA NiMH does! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*dark0:* 20mins only? Hey.... 1.5A x ~7v= ~ *10W* (!!!) for 20 minutes. That is a heck of a lot of power draw from the teeny 123s /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif That's why AA NiMh's were used. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif You could try JSBurly's 123-sized 3.6v Li-ions! Use 2 in series then in parallel with another 2. That would give much better runtime. I guess around ~40 mins? AA 2300mAh NiMh's give more than 70mins continuous runtime in regulation! Direct drive after that.

*Milky:* /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif


----------



## darkzero (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
*dark0:* 20mins only? Hey.... 1.5A x ~7v= ~ *10W* (!!!) for 20 minutes. That is a heck of a lot of power draw from the teeny 123s /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif That's why AA NiMh's were used. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif You could try JSBurly's 123-sized 3.6v Li-ions! Use 2 in series then in parallel with another 2. That would give much better runtime. I guess around ~40 mins? AA 2300mAh NiMh's give more than 70mins continuous runtime in regulation! Direct drive after that.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's what milky said, 20 min of regulation, but he made it more clear in his last post. I guess I will just have to try 3x123, 4x123, AA NiMhs and L91 just just for fun. I guess AA NiMhs is what I'll probably stick with though.

Thanks


----------



## Justintoxicated (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Well I really like the 2C frame size and structure. I don't care much for 2D...I know its easier to stuff more NIMH into a D size can but I really wanted to make something really bright, with decent runtime out of a 3C frame...

Largely because I have an extra Hotlips C (with 2 extra spacers) and a spare UCL lense...

What about using 3 of those smaller rechargable pilas? the 150's or whatever they are called? that would be like 12 Volt right?


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Those Pilas are ~4.1V freshly charged and drop to _roughly_ ~3.3V when it is discharged. 3 would be ~12V fresh. Check out the Dealers Forum for exact details. I am not sure whether JonSidneyB has more for trial or not.


----------



## Justintoxicated (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

so this setup would work good for a Mr. X in a 2C frame? 12V is not too much?


----------



## hotbeam (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

It is actually too much. The MR circuit works best with 2 of these Li-ion batts. Any extra voltage is wasted as heat. 2 x Li-ions is ~8.4V fresh and ~6.5V depleated which makes it *perrrrrrrfect* for an X3T binned Luxeon in a MR


----------



## hotbeam (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Bye Bye Shankus. Welcome J_Oei /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

MR-X Brethren map updated (as of end of Oct 2004)... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## cy (Nov 7, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm dying for my MRX-X3T to arrive from Australia. A long trip indeed to Oklahoma, USA. 

already thinking about which li-ion setup? 2x D sized li-ion w/protection circuits? 14500's nested in D to AA converters?

or run it just like it is with AA nmh 

Medium orange peel aluminum reflector is waiting.


----------



## cy (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

MRX-X3T just got here!!

stuck in 6 AA nmh and lit it up. Very bright!! 

got 3 carley aluminum reflectors coming. (mirror, LOP, MOP) 

can't wait until nightime.


----------



## milkyspit (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Cy, as a fellow MR-X owner, welcome to the Brothers X! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif


----------



## cy (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thanks for the welcome milky..


----------



## shannow (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Glad you got it cy... im gonna really miss that light /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif


----------



## cy (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

just got back in from running MRX at night. 

WOW.... this light lives up to the hype!!!


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Glad to hear you like the light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Out of curiosity, what light did you compare this against?


----------



## LEDmodMan (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Hi, and welcome to the family from the red-headed cast-off step-brother! MR-X is one of the best (if not THE best) LED lights out there. Enjoy yours!


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*LEDmodMan said:*
red-headed cast-off step-brother! 

[/ QUOTE ]


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


Even so, you *are* still on the Brethren map!!


----------



## Neg2LED (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i like the MR X TK that you showed me Hotbeam. any chance i can get my hands on a MR these days? not a MRXTK, just the circ?

i guess i should go to burnt, after all, he designed teh thingy....

neg


----------



## LEDmodMan (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*LEDmodMan said:*
red-headed cast-off step-brother! 

[/ QUOTE ]


/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yellowlaugh.gif


Even so, you *are* still on the Brethren map!! 

[/ QUOTE ]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## cy (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

[ QUOTE ]
*hotbeam said:*
Glad to hear you like the light. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Out of curiosity, what light did you compare this against? 

[/ QUOTE ]

Mclux PR-T X4T driven by R123, so far. Will do comparisons with my other X3T soon.


----------



## hotbeam (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Neg... sorry, no MR's were left after the run.

CY... to be fair, you need to compare the MR-X with another light with a similar (or larger) sized reflector. The large OA reflector, coupled with the two times overdriven lumen monster of that is the X3T, make it hard to beat. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


----------



## hotbeam (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I am toying with the idea of doing a second run of these things. I know, I know, the first run was only done in August 2003! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif They'll be some changes... Any interests here?


----------



## rick258 (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Absolutely!!!

Definitely in for one as per prior request after your 1st run.

What are the changes?

Thanks
Rick


----------



## InFlux (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

First in line! (for a TK MR-X) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ooops- too slow- guess I'm second in line. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif (For whatever!)


----------



## gregw (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'll be in for one!


----------



## Bogus1 (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm interested


----------



## shannow (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

If its an X bin, im in.


----------



## cy (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm in... 5th in line


----------



## chasm22 (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Please put me in line.

chasm22


----------



## bajaiman (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

If its an X bin, please count me in for 1


----------



## Glo_in_dark (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Definitely want 1. Maybe 2
Michael


----------



## Sway (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I could be tempted /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

Later
Kelly


----------



## hotbeam (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like I'd better not say 'no' to more X's then /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I am waiting for confirmation from the LED supplier and once confirmed, I'll open up a new thread to get more discussion going. I think this post is just a little over the 200 post limit now... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Oh, I'd better chat with Burnt_Retinas about the driver solution also!


----------



## xpitxbullx (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

Interested!

Jeff


----------



## jdriller (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

I'm in.


----------



## Greta (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Hotlips w Magic Resistor constant current circ*

*WHOA!!!* How come this thread hasn't been locked and a new one started!!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

Thread locked. Continuation HERE.


----------

