# Which is the best outdoor lighter?



## cableguy (Apr 30, 2004)

Im looking for the best camping and hiking lighter to buy. Brunton or Windmill? which model? where to buy?


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## NeonLights (Apr 30, 2004)

I personally like a good old-fashoined Zippo with a disposable for a backup. That setup has served me well for many years, and I see no reason to change to something different.

-Keith


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## juancho (Apr 30, 2004)

I don't know which is the best one of the ones you mention, I been using a Ronson Varaflame Windlite, gas lighter made in Germany for almost 40 years (I got that when I was 18) Last year I retired the Ronson (for sentimental reasons I don't want to risk the lost of my fine companion) and replace it with a Zippo.
What I want really to tell you about is my system for using a lighter to start a campfire, I wrap a heavy short rubber band or two around the ligther, when ready to start the fire I introduce a long stick between the rubber bands, now you can hold the ligther all you want without risk of burning and it is easy to put it right where you want the flame to be.
Juan C.


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## sotto (Apr 30, 2004)

My favorite, and I've tried many, is the Cricket piezo-electric butane lighter. They always seem to light everytime with only one click. I've even dumped mine in a sinkful of water, blew all the water out, and it lit. I've seen at least two different models, one about 3 inches long and a shorter version about 2 inches long that comes in a pack of two or three with a really bulletproof metal flip-top case to protect the plastic base of the lighter. Walgreens Drug Store seems to stock them around here (LA). I'd stake my life on 'em. They seem to last forever, and no worries about evaporating fuel like the Zippos or running out of flint like the Bics. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


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## paulr (Apr 30, 2004)

I've never had the flint in a disposable lighter outlast the fuel. But the sparkers in cheap piezo lighters do stop working after a while.

Bic lighters work if you dry them after getting them wet, but I guess you have to dry them pretty thoroughly, not just blow out the water.

Over at equipped.org they seem to like the Sparklite spark-wheel thingies which apparently generate more sparks than a normal flint would.


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## Commander (May 1, 2004)

I use the windmill and haven't found anything better yet...

Anodized Aluminum Windmil:






INFO:
windmill.co.jp 
essentialgear.com 

SHOP:
http://outdoorsuppliesuk.com/windmill/anodized.html

Opinion on windproof lighters:
Forum at equipped.org/


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## this_is_nascar (May 1, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*Commander said:*
I use the windmill and haven't found anything better yet...

Anodized Aluminum Windmil:





INFO:
windmill.co.jp 
essentialgear.com 

SHOP:
http://outdoorsuppliesuk.com/windmill/anodized.html

Opinion on windproof lighters:
Forum at equipped.org/ 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, that the same one I have. Don't make the mistake of carrying it in the same pocket that has a loose Arc-AAA light.


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## Bravo25 (May 1, 2004)

For the price I don't think you can beat the disposable Bic lighters. I have several stashed in different places. One placed in waterproof, floating container, and replaced once a year could provide fire, for any situation. 
I am a believer that everyone should carry one of these regardless of smoking preference. You just never know when it will come in handy, and the cost/size makes it worth while.


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## juancho (May 1, 2004)

Try to start a somehaw wet campfire with a BIC and you will change your mind in a jiffy, specially after nursing your burning finger!!
Juan C


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## Starshiptrupr (May 1, 2004)

I'm not sure of the extended durability yet, but I got a lighter at walmart a while back that looks almost exactly like the "delta" windmill lighter. Armored, double latched, fuel window, etc. The element looks pretty thin though. I think it was right around ten bucks with tax. (Cheap, but they still had them locked up in the knife counter.)


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## bald1 (May 1, 2004)

I've had a Vector Gear for sometime now and have found it to be the best lighter I've owned. Wind-proof, lean-burn, plenty of fuel capacity, and high altitude functionality.






--Bob


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## DOCSMYNAME (May 2, 2004)

Check out the blazer line. Large fuel capacity nice hot flame and adjustable. Beware of the Calibri line of torches I have not had good luck with the Calibri torches.
DOC


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## daloosh (May 3, 2004)

Docs is warning about the Colibris, and here I was about to ask about the Eddie Bauer-branded Colibris. Target is selling the Bauer name plated Quantum Firebird Electron for 11 and change, I wonder if it's any good. They also sell the rubber armored one, with window and all, for $25.

Anyone have experience with either?

daloosh


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## paulr (May 3, 2004)

If you're trying to light wet fuel, I think you're better off using an easy-to-light tinder (quick tabs, fire paste, or something like that) than trying to use a cigarette lighter as a miniature hair dryer to get your fuel going.


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## sotto (May 3, 2004)

If you're in a situation where you potentially might need a fire, a candle to start wet fuel is just as important as a lighter (and lots easier on the fingers).


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## matt_j (May 3, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*sotto said:*
If you're in a situation where you potentially might need a fire, a candle to start wet fuel is just as important as a lighter (and lots easier on the fingers). 

[/ QUOTE ]

and fuel.


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## Bravo25 (May 6, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*juancho said:*
Try to start a somehaw wet campfire with a BIC and you will change your mind in a jiffy, specially after nursing your burning finger!!
Juan C 

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. I could start a fire in a blinding rain storm with only 2 matches if I had to. If you are trying to start a fire like you described, better bring along a blow torch. Building a fire is in the logistics, not the flame source. If you can't get close to building a fire as I described perhaps some outdoorsman education might be warranted before putting yourself into the outdoors.


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## [email protected] (May 6, 2004)

Bravo, I'm curious... I'm a newb in starting fires... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif What is the best way? Tinder? I'd like to learn. 
Thanks much,


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## K-T (May 6, 2004)

I'm with [email protected], tell us /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## 03lab (May 6, 2004)

I'd like to know too. What's the secret?


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## Frangible (May 6, 2004)

Dry, combustable materials, with something that burns quickly to get it started, and ample oxygen and more fuel to keep it fed?


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## cy (May 6, 2004)

The secret to starting a fire in any condition is the preparation. 

1. you must start with some type of dry tinder, but most don't think about how to treat the new tender flame. 

2. You must be prepared to feed the new tender flame quickly with more correct sized fuel. 

3. As that catches on fire, then slow add progressively larger size fuel, until that catches on. 

4. then add larger sized fuel until that catches on fire. By this stage your fire is going good. Don't toss on the large chunks of fuel until the fire gets to the last stage.

That's it, really very simple. This is how I teach the boy scouts. Has not failed me yet.


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## paulr (May 6, 2004)

If it's in a rainstorm, why doesn't the water put out the fire?


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## JimH (May 6, 2004)

cy is absolutely, 100% correct. That is exactly the proper way to start a fire. Everyone who goes in the woods should know the steps listed and practice them so you can do it without thinking. The secret to starting a fire and keeping it going is 99% in the preparation and 1% in the match.

That being said, some of us have gotten old and lazy and go for the quick and dirty approach. Get yourself a continous ignition gas match (http://www.rv-news.com/jan2002/displaycase.cfm), available at most RV stores for under $20. Order a bunch of trioxane tablets from someplace like SportsmensGuide.com. Trioxane tablets are fuel tablets used to heat MRE's in the military. They light and burn like alcohol for a good 6 minutes.

Take the steps that Cy listed and move the numbers up by one. Insert as step #1 place trioxane tablet on the ground where you want to start your fire. After you've covered it with kindling, you can light the trioxane with the gas match. With this method, even the three stooges could start a fire in a monsoon.

One more thing - don't count on piezo lighters to work at high altitude. Once you get above about 7500 feet, they are pretty much useless. The gas match uses a battery to generate a spark, not a piezo crystal.

Jim


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## 03lab (May 7, 2004)

Nothing I didn't know already. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif Still waiting. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Kristofg (May 7, 2004)

a good magnifying lens and lots of sunshine.

But now that i can afford the more expensive stuff, I love the Victorinox Swissflame. A victorinox SAK with butane lighter which is great to start fires, perform emergency soldering, cut trough plastic tubing and other such tasks.


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## [email protected] (May 7, 2004)

Thanks for the replies to my Q. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I knew all that, but I was curious about starting a fire in BAD conditions. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif btw, the trioxane tablets are sold as "Esbit blocks" here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif


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## 03lab (May 7, 2004)

No, Trioxane is in fact different from Esbit.


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## [email protected] (May 7, 2004)

Ah, my mistake than, it sounded like the same thing... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif


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## Bravo25 (May 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*[email protected] said:*
Thanks for the replies to my Q. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I knew all that, but I was curious about starting a fire in BAD conditions. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif btw, the trioxane tablets are sold as "Esbit blocks" here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Fire shelter. Gather branches leaves grass whatever and erect a small shelter. Underneath this dig a pit. If necessary dig a small shaft, or area in 90 degree angle to the fire pit. In this small recess you should be able to ignite dry tender as it is not being drowned or blown on. If it doesn't light on the first match, what you learned should allow you to make enough corrections to ignite it on the second.

Of course there is always the 2 sticks method, or magnifying glass in good weather, or 9 volt battery, and steel wool, etc. 

Should we move on to collecting drinking water in the dessert with a cup, piece of plastic, and a rock. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## saunterer (May 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
Should we move on to collecting drinking water in the dessert with a cup, piece of plastic, and a rock. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

This is the best method I know of in which you can sweat out a gallon of water, to gain a pint of drinking water in return. (Assuming you are referring to a solar still.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(BTW, what part of Oz are you in?)


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## 03lab (May 7, 2004)

"Dry tinder" in a "blinding rain storm"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


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## Bravo25 (May 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*saunterer said:*
[ QUOTE ]
Should we move on to collecting drinking water in the dessert with a cup, piece of plastic, and a rock. 

[/ QUOTE ] 

This is the best method I know of in which you can sweat out a gallon of water, to gain a pint of drinking water in return. (Assuming you are referring to a solar still.) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(BTW, what part of Oz are you in?) 

[/ QUOTE ]

In the cool of the evening dig a hole in the ground. Doesn't have to be very deep. Place the cup in the center. Put the plastic over the hole, and weight the edges with sand or rocks. Take one small rock and place it in the center of the plastic so that it forms a cone apexing into the cup. 

I am in Wichita.


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## Bravo25 (May 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*03lab said:*
"Dry tinder" in a "blinding rain storm"? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]
Even a log in the river has dry tender if you shave off the outside of it.


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## saunterer (May 7, 2004)

Sure. Only the outside is wet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Find an old punky, dead limb or stump and use the core of the wood. Things under rocks and trees aren't always wet, either.

edit*** Bravo beat me to it.


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## Avix (May 7, 2004)

I keep hearing about this 9 volt and steel wool trick, but no one has been able to explain it to me. care to take a shot at it Bravo?


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## saunterer (May 7, 2004)

I'll shoot.

Take some 000 or 0000 steel wool. Touch it to the terminals of a 9 volt battery. It'll start burning, not flaming fire but a glowing red hot embers (can't think of how to describe it need to get back to work) 

That's all. Try it, as you should practice before you need these skills.

BTW, If you want a pretty decent firestarting trick to impress your friends, proclaim you can make fire from water. Take some plastic food wrap (about 6" square) and some water. Place this water in the plastic wrap and twist it up to form a bubble. Use it like a magnifying glass.


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## Bravo25 (May 7, 2004)

The 000o steel wool works best. Have some shreede paper or tember. Lay the steel wool on the ground put the kindling on top with plenty of spacing. Go to the up wind side,and touch the battery terminals to steel wool. I f you can find a machins shop that produces very small titanium shavings, get some and impregnate your steel wool with it. This will provide about the hottest starter you can find.


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## sotto (May 7, 2004)

I've worked on the steel wool trick, and the magnifying glass trick, and several others. In my humble experience, that steel wool gets consumed real fast and if the tinder doesn't catch, you're sunk. You can also grow old and expire while waiting for tinder to get hot enough to burst into flame with a magnifying glass. My experience is that if you really need a fire, there's no substitute for a good reliable waterproof lighter, a candle to keep the flame going and dry out damp tinder/kindling, and some lighter fluid can be a real lifesaver.


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## juancho (May 7, 2004)

Hi Bravo!
I was wondering when you were going to respond at my somehow STRONG posting directed at you like for BIC's.
You are RIGHT that the foundation of the fire is everything!!
My dislike for BIC's have to do with the fact that you have to keep your finger in the gas valve all the time, so that way you can not employ my trick with the rubber bands and the long stick, which is easy to do with a Zippo or similiar
lighter. Now, try this test with a BIC, wet your thumb in the faucet and shake it so all the water run out but your thumb is still somehaw moisturized, you will see that this little moisture prevent the wheel and the flint to produce a proper spark!!!
That is my other problem with this tipe of ligther, a fair weather lighter if you will.
I have been building fires for 45 years, most of the time using the Ronson Vara Flame Windlite that I have mention before, I can assure you that I don't have any outdoor skills to learn, anymore.
My post was not an attack to your person, only to you recommendation of ligther.
I don't beleive that you wanted to say that I have to learn outdoor skills,rigth?
still friends?

Juan C.


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## Bravo25 (May 7, 2004)

Sure we're still friends. My only attack was on trying to "light a wet camp fire". It can be raining, and if you prepare right you can light a fire with only 2 matches, a bic, or almost any flame source. If lighting a wet camfire you will need nothing short of a blow torch or titainium.
I don't care care for liquid fuel lighters as the fuel is more of a hazard, and weight for weight doesn't transport as well.

When using the magnafying glass, take along some paper strips,and cotoon balls as tender. This will also help the steel wool, and battery fire starter. Usually I take some of my used gun cleaning patches,and put them in a waterproof container to add to my firestarter kit.


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## nullandvoid (May 7, 2004)

Sorry if I'm intruding on the topic but I just have to ask, there have been a couple of posts that have mentioned titanium as kindling, do you really mean titanium? or do you mean magnesium?


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## Bravo25 (May 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*nullandvoid said:*
Sorry if I'm intruding on the topic but I just have to ask, there have been a couple of posts that have mentioned titanium as kindling, do you really mean titanium? or do you mean magnesium? 

[/ QUOTE ]

My mistake, you are correct Magnesium. (multi tasking has it drwa backs /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif)


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## paulr (May 7, 2004)

I'm a little confused about this dry fuel issue--in a rainstorm, even if you have dry fuel, how does it STAY dry? A powerful enough rainstorm should be able to put out even a roaring bonfire. So I always assumed all methods of building fires in rainstorms involved shielding them from the rain somehow, e.g. with a tarp or something.


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## HunterSon (May 7, 2004)

All of the light metals will burn under the right conditions. Titanium, magnesium, aluminum and some in their pure form have to be stored in an oxygen and water free environment to stop them from burning, like potassium, lithium and sodium.
Cool.


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## Bravo25 (May 7, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*paulr said:*
I'm a little confused about this dry fuel issue--in a rainstorm, even if you have dry fuel, how does it STAY dry? A powerful enough rainstorm should be able to put out even a roaring bonfire. So I always assumed all methods of building fires in rainstorms involved shielding them from the rain somehow, e.g. with a tarp or something. 

[/ QUOTE ]

To some extent ths true. However with something such as magnesium it is a little different. If you light a chunk of magnesiunm on fire (which is no small task) you can then drop it to the bottom the ocean, and it would continue to burn allthe way to the bottom, or until the material is exhausted. This is due to the fire process causing the material to give off it's own oxegen while burning. It also burns very white hot.


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## BB (May 8, 2004)

Actually, as far as I remember, magnesium when burning actually disassociates the H2O molecule into hydrogen and oxygen--the magnesium is now free to combine with the oxygen (burn) and releasing hydrogen gas to burn (if further oxygen is available).

Magnesium itself will not burn if there is no oxygen (or other oxidizer) present. And if the magnesium is cold, the powder and turnings can be stored in liquid water (under certain conditions). 

Safe handling of Magnesium 

When we were kids we played with magnesium and found that you don't want to burn it on concrete/cement walkways. The high heat of burning will cause the concrete to spall and, even with a small fire, toss white hot sparks 5 feet into the air (about eye level for little kids playing with magnesium and carbon arc rods/welder to light it off). A very pretty sight if you are not right next to it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

-Bill


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## paulr (May 8, 2004)

I understand about magnesium burning underwater, but I'm still not getting any sense of how you keep a wood fire burning in a downpour once the magnesium that lit it in the first place is gone. Am I missing something here? Magnesium (or whatever) is supposed to be the starter, not the fuel.

It occurs to me that a sparkler might be a good firestarter, btw. It burns very hot for a fairly long time.


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## Bravo25 (May 8, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*paulr said:*
I understand about magnesium burning underwater, but I'm still not getting any sense of how you keep a wood fire burning in a downpour once the magnesium that lit it in the first place is gone. Am I missing something here? Magnesium (or whatever) is supposed to be the starter, not the fuel.

It occurs to me that a sparkler might be a good firestarter, btw. It burns very hot for a fairly long time. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Fire Shelter. A properly constructed lean to will do quite nicely. Make sure it is high enough to not catch fire, and place your supply wood to the inside. Reflected heat will further dry the wood supply making it easier to keep the fire going.


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## batbelt (May 10, 2004)

One of the most useful things to use in a downpour is rubber. Thin strips of tyre can easily be lit even when soaking wet, and will keep burning until effectively submerged in water. They will also burn for a little longer than cotton wool / wire wool for those of us who maybe aren't quite so expert with the other kindling. Needless to say, keep your nose well away from burning rubber.


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## bluewater (May 16, 2004)

My favorite fire starter is a cotton ball rolled in Vaseline or other petroleum jelly. The cotton balls acts like a wick for the burning Vaseline, they burn for several minutes. Even damp tinder will start easily. Cram about 6 of these in a film container and put it in the car, or in your pack if in the woods.


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## cy (May 17, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*juancho said:* I been using a Ronson Varaflame Windlite, gas lighter made in Germany for almost 40 years (I got that when I was 18) Last year I retired the Ronson (for sentimental reasons I don't want to risk the lost of my fine companion) and replace it with a Zippo. Juan C. 

[/ QUOTE ]
Lucky me, I just found a 50's Ronson Varaflame Windlite in mint condition at a garage sale. I filled it with butane and a new flint. Works perfect, lights everytime.

I didn't realize what I had until I read your post. What a jewel of a lighter!


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## juancho (May 17, 2004)

CV, congratulations on your find, also you will like to know that Ian Flemming in one of the first books (don't remember which) put a Ronson gunmetal color in James Bond hand's, (a favorite)
Knife Mountain Works sell a nice leather or nylon holster for the Zippo that also fit the Ronson (about $2.00 for nylon and $3.00 for leather)
Juan C.


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## cy (May 17, 2004)

juancho, thanks again for identifing what a wonderful tool my windlite is. I've been playing with it all night. It seems to hold the butane charge very tight. The more I use it, I realize why you are so attached to your windlite.

I'm starting to blow the cobwebs out of it. The veraflame dial is staring to really work well, goes from a mini flame to a large torche. Seems to run for a long time between charges.

It's amazing that a mechanical device that is almost 50 years old would still hold pressure and work this good.


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## DavidH (May 18, 2004)

I don't have one, but this looks pretty neat and even has a built-in LED flashlight!
Brunton Firelight


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## Wingerr (May 18, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*JimH said:*
One more thing - don't count on piezo lighters to work at high altitude. Once you get above about 7500 feet, they are pretty much useless. The gas match uses a battery to generate a spark, not a piezo crystal.
Jim 

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would altitude affect a piezo crystal? I could see the fuel being affected, but don't see why the voltage generated by the piezo should be. 
Might be that the fuel mixture is too rich for the spark to ignite at altitude, requiring a hotter spark.


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## cy (May 19, 2004)

Here is a pic of my aprox. 50 year old Ronson Windlite. Quality construction! Amazing, the body is hard chromed. I was wondering why the lighter resists scratching. I pulled off the bottom fuel cover and there is was, the tell tail signs hard chome flashing. (hard chrome is used for crankshaft jornals)

It works on flint, best working butane lighter I have ever used. Note: Arc4 w/tailcap mod 1.2 low profile


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## juancho (May 19, 2004)

CV, 
Thank you for the picture, I printed it and will go in my register book together with your comments.
My register book list my valuable or sentimental value items.
So my family will know what is what in case of my demise.
My Ronson rest in a collector's cabinet's draw, next to the first compass that my father gave me and my Granfather Walthan pocket watch.
I will buy a digital camera soon as is nice to have records and also be able to show or E-mail pictures to friends.
Thanks again

Juan C.


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## cy (May 20, 2004)

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif


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## GameKe (Jun 28, 2004)

[ QUOTE ]
*this_is_nascar said:*
[ QUOTE ]
*Commander said:*
I use the windmill and haven't found anything better yet...

Anodized Aluminum Windmil:





INFO:
windmill.co.jp 
essentialgear.com 

SHOP:
http://outdoorsuppliesuk.com/windmill/anodized.html

Opinion on windproof lighters:
Forum at equipped.org/ 

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, that the same one I have. Don't make the mistake of carrying it in the same pocket that has a loose Arc-AAA light. 

[/ QUOTE ]

Why ?


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## kakster (Jun 28, 2004)

ARC AAAs finish is tough enough to chew through most things. I dont have that exact Windmill lighter, but mine is already looking well used after 6 months. The actual lighter still works fine tho, probabley the most reliable jet flame type ive used.


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## Mark2 (Jun 28, 2004)

I'm very satisfied with my Brunton Helios. Burns in every position without a problem, even upside-down. Can handle extreme winds and starts in heavy rain. Rubber case is a good drop protection. As for the Firelight, I don't really like it. The lighter is nowhere near the Helios. It's not bad, but not in the same league.


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## Bravo25 (Jun 29, 2004)

Of course there is always the standard road flare.


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