# [email protected] P7 DSVMI mod - 4500 lumen!



## Mike cz (Oct 22, 2009)

A large problem was the power 6xSSC P7. I did not want to connect SSC P7 directly to the 2x18650. After a long search, I found this switching power supply: LSM2 T30 W12 DC-DC switch!
http://www.murata-ps.com/data/power/lsm2-t30-d12.pdf

Technical parameters DC-DC switch are amazing: 
*Iout = 30A* _(set to ~15A) _(Uout = 0,8-3,6 V) _total 125W!_ 
Uout = 0.8-5V 
Uin = 5-15V 
*Size 33x13,5mm *
*Efficiency 94%!* 
Price € 25 

-the OFF-mode (electronically) flows into switch regulator 0.9 mA (at uin = 8.4 V), but this is still very much .. 
-it is a voltage buck regulator, which is totally unsuitable for LED. It must reckon with the fact, that when the LED heat up, current to the LED is larger. This can be easily solved with PTC thermistor ... 
-so strong boost converter is not, and if yes, it was very expensive.

*DC-DC switch LSM2 T30 W12 is very small!!!*







*I cleaned the thread Romisen, because the current of 2x18650 is 7-8A.*

















*I made for DC-DC switch auxiliary PCB with a special spring. On the PCB is soldered 40x10uF capacitors Taiyo Yuden with 50miliohm ESR for DC-DC switch. *

















































*
Added 3-mode switch. Each mode is arbitrarily set by trimmer.*













*Comparison with the original (15W) DC-DC switch*




















*
Cooler for P7 with thread, this is not original.*








*

Drilling 1,5mm holes with thread gave me a lot of work. SSC P7 are soldered to Cu washer. It was difficult, because the whole washer must be warmed up 
220 °C. On the picture is also seen PTC thermistor for temperature compensation.*
























































*This is a komplete flashlight.*






















Technical parameters:
Mid: 20W _(efficiency 105 lm/W*20=2100lm!)*_
Low: 5W _(efficiency 120 lm/W*5=600lm!)*_
High 50W _(current over 15A)__*_
On high 50W is between *4300-4800 lm*
*_These mode's is not PWM_

With 2xPanasonic 2900mAh:
Mid: 1hour
Low: 4hours
High: 20min

Theoretically SSC P7 *D*SVM*I* has 2,8A/3,25V(testing) and 800-900lm => *88-99 lm/W*!
The 6xSSC P7 *D*SVM*I* => 6*2,8A*3,25V=> *54,6W**88lm/W=> *min 4800lm (max 5400lm)!!!

*I could set even more power: 60-70W or more :naughty: - over 55OO lm, but then is poor efficiency and the problem with the coolin...

For more information and pictures on the Czech forum http://forum.fotonmag.cz/index.php?showtopic=436&st=40&start=40 on 17/9/2009 _(in Czech)_.


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## bluecrow76 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

Very impressive!


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## Anto (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

Wow!!!


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## Tim Carleton (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

Ok, since you did that for your first post, I want to see your next one about making a miniature generator that's turbine powered driving 5 hid bulbs in a 3d host. 






That's excellent craftsmanship, well done. :welcome:


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## pmoore (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

Holy Crap!, can't wait to see some beam shots. 

Paul


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## pOkiE (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

*[Disgusting juvenile comment removed - DM51]*


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## Hack On Wheels (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

Best first post I've seen yet! The attention to detail and thoroughness is astounding, great job. 

Wondering about the batteries though... what would the current draw from them be? I'm assuming its quite high on high, so I'd recommend looking into some IMR batteries from AW; they might be a bit safer and could even run longer under high drain conditions.


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## pepko (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

very nice ...

i think this is the best homemade flashlight on CPF !!!

:goodjob:


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## moviles (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

nice, really really nice :twothumbs:goodjob:

how to clean tread of romisen? acid?

Is this the stock heatsink of the romisen? 






if it is not put a photo of the original one please


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## Aircraft800 (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

*That is INSANE!* 

Something is a little fishy here, that is NOT a first post! 
Where have you been hanging out? 
How long have you been lurking here? 
You must have some kind of electronic engineering background?

:welcome::bow::bow:


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## Mike cz (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

to Hack On Wheels:
AW IMR18650 1600mAh capacity is very small ... I use mostly Romisen on mid mode. Panasonic 2900mAh are for me better. I use currently still TR25OOmAh, Panasonic 2900mAh I have not personally.
Even Romisen(mode 50W) shine 20 minutes(Panasonic 2900mAh), this is 16666mWh/2=8333mWh, AW IMR18650 only 5000mWh. I draw information from this: http://forum.fotonmag.cz/index.php?showtopic=691&st=0&start=0

Current consumption is in Romisen of 2x18650 between 7-9A. Theoretically:
first 1 / 4 time is a current consumption into 7A (I think, Panasonic 2900mAh has voltage 3.5V), 500mAh capacity is exhausted, 
next 1 / 4 time is a current consumption into 7,5A (I think, Panasonic 2900mAh has voltage 3.3 V), 1000mAh capacity is exhausted, 
next 1 / 4 time is a current consumption into 8A (I think, Panasonic 2900mAh has voltage 3.1 V), 1500mAh capacity is exhausted.
Then is a current consumption into 8.5A and then is a current consumption momently 9A..., 2000mAh capacity is exhausted.



to moviles: 
Yes, acid FeCl3. I spotted carefully dropwise FeCl3 directly on the thread. After 10-20 minutes was thread clean.

Yes, this is not original heatsink. On the photo is comparison with original.


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## jirik_cz (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*



Aircraft800 said:


> Where have you been hanging out?



At our local forum http://forum.fotonmag.cz/index.php?showtopic=436


I had a chance to see that light in person and it is really bright, true wall of light


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## jar3ds (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

holy crap! wow....


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## bshanahan14rulz (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: [email protected] P7 DSVMI*

Beautiful!


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## LEDobsession (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: [email protected] P7 DSVMI*

A first post? Who are you?

Thats incredible.

:welcome:, you lurker. haha.


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## Mark620 (Oct 23, 2009)

*Re: [email protected] P7 DSVMI*

Awesome


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## Mike cz (Oct 24, 2009)

*Re: [email protected] P7 DSVMI*

to moviles:
I have other photo heatsink:







_The blue is wax cast of Romisen._

For example: Here is other photos the originaly cooler.


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## toby_pra (Oct 24, 2009)

*Re: [email protected] P7 DSVMI*

WOW!

We need beamshots please...


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## Mike cz (Oct 24, 2009)

*Re: [email protected] P7 DSVMI*

*Tree 30m beamshots*, _(shutter speed 4sec.)_

Aurora AK P7-5, direct drive _(high mode, fully charged-4Amperes)_





[email protected] P7 middle (only cca 18W)





[email protected] P7 low (only cca 4W)





[email protected] P7 high (cca 50W)






*Wall 1m beamshots*, _(shutter speed 1/1000sec.)_

Aurora AK P7-5, direct drive _(high mode, fully charged-__4Amperes__)_





[email protected] P7 middle (only cca 18W)





[email protected] P7 low (only cca 4W)





[email protected] P7 high (cca 50W)





_I'll add another photo at a greater distance..._


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## pepko (Oct 24, 2009)

*Re: [email protected] P7 DSVMI*

wall of light ...
:lolsign:


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## moviles (Oct 24, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*



Mike cz said:


> to moviles:
> Yes, acid FeCl3. I spotted carefully dropwise FeCl3 directly on the thread. After 10-20 minutes was thread clean.
> 
> Yes, this is not original heatsink. On the photo is comparison with original.



:thanks: :thumbsup:


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## js-lots (Oct 24, 2009)

Wow, that thing is ridiculous. In a good way of course. I cant wait to see the next project.


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## alpg88 (Oct 24, 2009)

holly sh...t, wow 6xp7, awesome


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## Gunner12 (Oct 24, 2009)

The reason why the IMR batteries are recommended for this setup is not because of the capacity, but because they can supply a lot of amps without sagging in voltage. This means you'll have less runtime, but it also means you could have more output on high. Depends on how much those Panasonics sag under the current, it is possible that you'll get more runtime with the IMRs on high mode.

Amazing Mod!
Keep up the good work!

:welcome:


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## waddup (Oct 25, 2009)

:bow:.......


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## sadtimes (Oct 25, 2009)

that is simply amazing.. wish i was that good...


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## toby_pra (Oct 25, 2009)

Awesome output!!!:twothumbs


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## XRAYBoY (Oct 25, 2009)

:huh:Fine and impressive work:bow:


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## Techjunkie (Oct 25, 2009)

Yikes!

As those cells deplete, what kind of current are you pulling from them?

Aren't you worried about drawing so many amps from LiCo chemistry cells? (I'm guessing just under 9A toward the end.)


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## lolzertank (Oct 25, 2009)

Great mod! That thing's bright. :naughty:

BUT... you should really listen to everyone who's saying that you should get IMR cells. Draining 8A+ from LiCo cells is extremely dangerous. Plus, for heavy loads, the IMR cells will hold their voltage and capacity far better than the 2900mAh Panasonics, so you lose much less capacity than you think.


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## DM51 (Oct 26, 2009)

Welcome to CPF, Mike cz. That is impressive work! Please would you read Rule 3 concerning the size of images you are allowed to post here. Most of yours exceed the permitted maximum size.

pOkiE... your offensive comment has been deleted. This is a family forum, and juvenile vocabulary of that type is not tolerated. If there are any more contributions of that type from you, you will be banned from this forum.


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## pepko (Oct 26, 2009)

DM51 said:


> Welcome to CPF, Mike cz. That is impressive work! Please would you read Rule 3 concerning the size of images you are allowed to post here. Most of yours exceed the permitted maximum size.
> 
> pOkiE... your offensive comment has been deleted. This is a family forum, and juvenile vocabulary of that type is not tolerated. If there are any more contributions of that type from you, you will be banned from this forum.



picture size only 800x800 ??? 
that is too low ...


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## DM51 (Oct 26, 2009)

pepko said:


> picture size only 800x800 ???
> that is too low ...


Hmm... you've been registered here for getting on for 2 years, and throughout that time you have failed to read the rules?


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## Al Combs (Oct 26, 2009)

pepko said:


> picture size only 800x800 ???
> that is too low ...


Actually it's pretty easy to do. You upload a thumbnail with the image tool (postcard thing). Then you click on the thumbnail and upload the url of the full sized image. Your pictures become links. A mouse-over will show a little hand pointing its index finger. Then people can click on the pictures they are really interested in. It's much easier to get an good overview.

Mike CZ... Awesome build.  :twothumbs

I think Hack On Wheels is right about AW's IMR18650. They don't have a very high capacity, but they are rated for a 10C discharge. So they're good for 16 amp continuous discharge. Well they are for the first couple of minutes anyway. Regular cobalt Li-Ions are only good to about 2C discharge rate. The Panasonic NCR18650 2,900 part of the NNP (Nickel oxide based New Platform) series says to contact Panasonic if you intend discharge rates higher than 1It {It(A)=rated capacity(Ah)/1(h)}. Basically they are saying to contact them for discharge rates higher than 2.9 amps. I found it in their Notes and Precautions link on their NCR18650 page. The overview on the same page says they are cobalt Li-Ion. Which you could guess from the high capacity.

That it's working now doesn't necessarily mean it's safe for extended use.


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## jirik_cz (Oct 27, 2009)

Al Combs said:


> The Panasonic NCR18650 2,900 part of the NNP (Nickel oxide based New Platform) series says to contact Panasonic if you intend discharge rates higher than 1It {It(A)=rated capacity(Ah)/1(h)}.



The Panasonic NCR18650 still contain cobalt, but they have much safer contruction LiNiCoAlO2

They are good up to 6A discharge (at this rate they completely destroy IMRs), but I wouldn't recommend them for higher rates.


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## pepko (Oct 27, 2009)

DM51 said:


> Hmm... you've been registered here for getting on for 2 years, and throughout that time you have failed to read the rules?



yes ... my english is very poor ... i dont understand rules ...


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## pepko (Oct 27, 2009)

jirik_cz said:


> The Panasonic NCR18650 still contain cobalt, but they have much safer contruction LiNiCoAlO2
> 
> They are good up to 6A discharge (at this rate they completely destroy IMRs), but I wouldn't recommend them for higher rates.



Jirik: Good job, perfect graph!

But it would be better for Mike (and us) if we could see the graph at current 7-8A. Because Mike wrote this: 

_"Current consumption is in Romisen of 2x18650 between 7-9A. Theoretically:
first 1 / 4 time is a current consumption into 7A (I think, Panasonic 2900mAh has voltage 3.5V), 500mAh capacity is exhausted, 
next 1 / 4 time is a current consumption into 7,5A (I think, Panasonic 2900mAh has voltage 3.3 V), 1000mAh capacity is exhausted, 
next 1 / 4 time is a current consumption into 8A (I think, Panasonic 2900mAh has voltage 3.1 V), 1500mAh capacity is exhausted.
Then is a current consumption into 8.5A and then is a current consumption momently 9A..., 2000mAh capacity is exhausted."_


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## Mike cz (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

Thank you for all the tips and compliments...


Aircraft800 said:


> *That is INSANE!*
> 
> Something is a little fishy here, that is NOT a first post!
> Where have you been hanging out?
> ...




Yes, it is a first post!
I know about CPF.com six months... and one year I in the Czech Forum http://forum.fotonmag.cz/index.php?showtopic=436, but I was interested in the LED always.
I have second school of electronic engeneering... I made also this and this.





Yes I know that the use at high currents Panasonic 2900mAh is dangerous. But even the Panasonic in 10A is still good. This is a very dangerous... I think, that is not occasional use 7-8A(high mode 50W) so dangerous. Even so, Panasonic 2900mAh is very stressed. Capacity can be gradually lost. I use the most middle mode(3A+). Capacity Panasonic 2900mAh is excellent...

to Gunner12: Higher performance(with IMR18650) on high mode can be set, but is the problem with cooling at room temperature... 50W high mode is sufficient.

to DM51: OK, I remedy it.

Also my english is poor ...


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## Gunner12 (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*

Your english is pretty good. I can understand you quite well.

Good point about the cooling. That light must produce a lot of heat.

What's next, a tri SST-90 Maglite? 

I wish I had the resources to make such an impressive light.


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## applevision (Oct 27, 2009)

*Re: Romisen 6xSSC P7 DSVMI*



Gunner12 said:


> Your english is pretty good. I can understand you quite well.
> 
> Good point about the cooling. That light must produce a lot of heat.
> 
> ...



OMG... a tri-SST-90! Imagine... I'm just a poser here in these custom & modified parts but I do appreciate the magic y'all work! It's so fun to come here and see the real bleeding edge!


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## BVH (Oct 27, 2009)

Do you have any interest in selling this gem? If so, I am interested. Maybe it could fund your next project??


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## wquiles (Oct 28, 2009)

Mike, that was a fantastic project - very, very impressive :thumbsup:

Keep up the good work :twothumbs

Will


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## Mike cz (Oct 29, 2009)

BVH said:


> Do you have any interest in selling this gem? If so, I am interested. Maybe it could fund your next project??



I didn´t think about selling Romisen. I make flashlights for pleasure, but I can produce Romisen for you once again. Production would take one month. When you would like to buy Romisen earlier, I could sell you mine, but not to like.  Costs for production Romisen 6x SSC P7 are cca 250$.
Postage is cca 30$. How much you are willing to offer? 

I have some plans of flashlight. It will be more expensive and more powerful of light. This is not a modification, but a complete production lamps. I haven´t now so much money for production, so I will produce it probably in the next year.


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## BVH (Oct 29, 2009)

Mike, I PM'd you with my response.


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## richardcpf (Oct 29, 2009)

That was amazing. One of the best DIY I've ever seen.


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## Ganp (Oct 30, 2009)

What a great mod'. Excellent work Mike. :twothumbs

Colin.


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## Al Combs (Oct 31, 2009)

Mike cz said:


> A large problem was the power 6xSSC P7. I did not want to connect SSC P7 directly to the 2x18650. After a long search, I found this switching power supply: LSM2 T30 W12 DC-DC switch!
> http://www.murata-ps.com/data/power/lsm2-t30-d12.pdf
> 
> Technical parameters DC-DC switch are amazing:
> ...


Again awesome build.:twothumbs

What is the material you used to insulate the P7's from the heatsink? Is it a special thermal transfer material, or ordinary plastic that's thin enough not to affect the result? It looks like Arctic Silver 5 or maybe MX2? I looked up the DX link you had on the cz site at the end of the post. I didn't realize that was the stock reflector. How did you enlarge the holes? It looks perfectly centered. No small feat considering how you had to solder the LED's to that large copper ring. Don't worry about the language thing. Like Gunner12 said you're doing just fine. We'd all love to hear any details you'd care to share.

Thank you jirik_cz for the battery graph. It looks like the Panasonic 2900's are holding up pretty well, even at 10 amps. Usually when you overtax a battery you get a dip in the discharge curve at the very beginning. The voltage actually goes up as time goes on. There is only a slight hint of the beginnings of the dip, even with the obvious loss of capacity from heat generation. As you say with intermittent use it should be no problem. Also if I had noticed on first reading you were an engineer, I would have been less likely to say something. Clearly you do know what you are doing.

Also as Tim Carleton said about first post... Obviously you are not new to this hobby even if you are to CPF. I also missed that because of the complexity of your build. Since I try to extend a welcome to new folk when I post in their thread, better late than never. :welcome:


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## Mike cz (Nov 1, 2009)

I have not at home arctic alumina adhesive or similar. I hurried and I put a thin microtene spacer(plastic)! Works perfectly. Paste is MX2. I measured the temperature of flashlight and simultaneously voltage on SSC P7. The temperature of flashlight was 49°C and voltage on SSC P7 is decreased from 3.03V to 2.94V, this is difference 90mV. The voltage on LED decrease depending up on temperature(cca -2,5mV/°C). This means, that the temperature at SSC P7 was around 61 °C(_this is junction temperature(Tj), max. Tj for SSC P7 is 140°C)_. This is difference only 12°C! Therefore I say, that it works perfectly...
I drilled a holes with normal drill. Drilling work was easy, but I was afraid.
Soldering process SSC P7 was difficult...


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## Mike cz (Nov 1, 2009)

For example I give voltage DC-DC switch without control thermistor and with control thermistor.
I measure voltage on resistor 4.3 miliohm and then I calculate the current.
_- in Romisen were used poor and old 18650 2000mAh. (My TF 18650 I lost at home.__) __Higher currents were for 18650 death._


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## Techjunkie (Nov 2, 2009)

Mike,

I think you can drop the "Romisen" from the thread title and your signature. This is hardly a Romisen any more.  You deserve way more credit for this build than Romisen does. :laughing:

Do you have any pics showing how the thermistor is wired into the DC-DC converter? It looks like a capacitor in your pics and I don't see any wires connected to it. Just curious.


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## Al Combs (Nov 3, 2009)

I kind of like the name. It's like the ultimate sleeper. The same way a guy with an 8,000 lumen MagLite hotwire is just something people don't expect.

I would be curious about the thermistor setup as well. Do you just wire it up to the sense input pin of the voltage regulator? Does it need to be a certain value? Nice solution with the microtene spacer. Where did you get the Vf drop with temperature rise data? I looked in SSC's docs on the P7 and couldn't find it.

Hope to be seeing more of you around Mike. :wave:


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## Mike cz (Nov 9, 2009)

Techjunkie: The figure shows SMD case 0805. In this case may be resistor, thermistor, capacitor or inductor. The termistor is soldered on top PCB.
Driver is controlled by series-parallel combination of resistors and thermistor. Selecting the correct value of resistance is lengthy...

Al Combs: SSC P7 is composed of four SSC P4. For SSC P4 apply "Forward Voltage Shift vs. Junction Temperature":




_For SSC P7 will be similar._..


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## Nanomiser (Mar 2, 2010)

Phenomenal build Mike :thumbsup: 

I'm still trying to figure out how to upgrade my RC-T6 with some Cree R2's. 

Between this flame thrower and the 6xSST50 for BVH, you have taken the art of torch modding to a whole new level. oo:

Thank you for sharing your impressive work.


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## HarryN (Mar 27, 2010)

Very nice build. I was just taken to this light by another link, and am so glad I looked at it.


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