# Brock, Comment further on Surefire 12 PM



## DaveH (Aug 14, 2000)

Brock, could you add comment on how the Surefire 12 PM compares to other lights?

Specifically, how does it compare in brightness to rechargeable models, and is it approximately twice as bright as the SL6?

DaveH


----------



## Brock (Aug 14, 2000)

Funny you should ask. For fun, at least for me anyway




, my wife drove about 2 miles away and took one of our FRS with her (hence the other FRS post) we could talk to one another but not very well. Anyway I shined all the different lights at her and oddly enough she said of all the LED lights the red photon was the brightest, must have something to do with wavelength. Then I started shining the brighter lights, she could see all of them, but when I shined the 12PM she said she could actually see things around her, it lit up the area she was in about 2 miles away! She said she heard something near her and to turn the light back on, she saw a cat about 20 feet from her. None of the other lights did this. I would say it is about 4 times brighter than the SL6, but remember it only lasts about 15 minutes. Now I am looking at some of the other bright handheld spots, I saw a LRI that was 100w and lasted about 15 min. It looks more like the typical spotlight. Oh yes the 12 PM is very small, smaller than a standard 3 C cell mag and lighter also. The lamp in the 12PM is a little over 28 watts, while the lamp in the SL6 is a little over 7 watts.

Brock


----------



## DaveH (Aug 14, 2000)

Thanks for the info, sounds like fun. I'm trying to be good and not buy more gear, but it's tough.





DaveH


----------



## Clay (Aug 17, 2000)

Wow! That is pretty bright! Sounds like it should ship with some binoculars!



------------------
Clay Fleischer
[email protected] 

"More light!" -Goethe


----------



## Size15's (Aug 29, 2000)

My SureFire 12PM has been used while roof-surfing to light up the narrow country road more than enough to drive by...
Obviously, driving by flashlight is not a sensible thing, but then neither is roof-surfing at 25mph. Don't do either; especially when drunk (unfortunately, you're only going to try this when drunk (or well paid)





While I was in Spain, I forced one of our cars to stop almost a mile away with my 12PM. The Beam is brilliant white, and extends further than flashlights many times more bulky. I've not tried it against a MaxaBeam, let alone a PlasmaBeam as I don't have thousands of dollars spare





3 minutes burn time creates a flashlight that steams in the rain. However, it's a "Flash"-Light, and I used smaller (cheaper) lights as well (current favourite - Pelican StealthLite). With the New range of Millennium lights from SureFire, the old 12PM/ZM is already coming down in price...


----------



## Skyline (Aug 29, 2000)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*While I was in Spain, I forced one of our cars to stop almost a mile away with my 12PM.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean you signaled to the car from a mile away? Or do you mean the glare from the 12PM forced him to stop?





<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*The Beam is brilliant white, and extends further than flashlights many times more bulky.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wonder how the 12PM/M6 compare to one of those LSI 2 million cp spotlights. What's brighter and extends further? I've only been able to compare my M6 (15 oz) against a Pelican Aqua King Lite (100K cp, 8D, 5 lbs!) and Maglite 6D (20K cp), and the M6 made them look like toys.





<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*3 minutes burn time creates a flashlight that steams in the rain.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow! That's impressive.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*However, it's a "Flash"-Light, and I used smaller (cheaper) lights as well (current favourite - Pelican StealthLite).*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always wanted to get a StealthLite! How is the beam quality, as compared to the SuperMityLite?


[This message has been edited by Skyline (edited 08-29-2000).]


----------



## Brock (Aug 29, 2000)

Oh, if you put newspaper in front of a 12PM it will start on fire in less than a minute.

Brock


----------



## Size15's (Aug 30, 2000)

I've never started a fire, but I melted a candle by shining the 12PM at it for a bit...

The car was heading towards me, flashed fullbeam at me so I flashed back. He stopped and sounded his horn. We were in the middle of nowhere, with only his car on the road. I seriously believe the 12PM should not be used near moving cars unless you intended to halt or crash them.

I've tested the 12PM against a "2 Million CP" spotlight run off a car cigarette lights (12V). The SureFire won - no question.

For signalling, I use assorted Photon II’s. The 12PM is overkill, but you certainly get the attention of everyone!

I wish I'd got 1 rechargeable StealthLite & a normal one instead of 2 normal ones as the rechargeable is meant to be even brighter. The Beam is not SureFire perfect, but is very narrow and brighter than most MagLites and other lights (~2D cell etc). The Flashlight is as tough as anything, and I've never broken a Lamp (touch wood). I've snorkelled with them, and use them everyday.

I recommend the StealthLite. My next purchases however will be E1's, an M2, and either an M1000 or M2000 - when they go on sale.


----------



## Skyline (Aug 30, 2000)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>*Oh, if you put newspaper in front of a 12PM it will start on fire in less than a minute.*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow!! I gotta try this with my M6. I guess I'd have to hold the newspaper right up to the front of it?

Thanks everyone for the great information. I'm glad I've avoided getting one of those "2 million cp" spotlights and being ultimately disappointed. I guess the next thing for me is the E1...but 30 days out! How will we survive???.


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Aug 31, 2000)

RE: 2 Million cp LSI vs. Surefire 12PM -- 
...I just compared the SF 12PM to my 1.5 million cp rechargeable LSI and the LSI is far brighter!
I think that possibly "size15s" needs to check his (or her) car battery! Or maybe he needs a brighter bulb.
When the bulb looks greyish or black, it's time to replace it...


----------



## Size15's (Sep 1, 2000)

Okay, so the LSI has a much larger lens than the 12PM. 
Can you tell us the width of both the beams at 20ft please?

Personally, I've never used an LSI lights. so you may well be right. This might just go to show that "lesser" companies wildly increase the CP values as both the 1 million and the 1.5 million CP lights I've been up against have not come close in terms of delivering quality light from a distance.

Thanks for the info.

Alastair (most definitely Male)


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 1, 2000)

Oh, I mistakenly assumed you were using the LSI, sorry -- that would account for our different experiences of course.. I'll take 'em both, LSI 1.5 million cp. rechargeable, and Surefire 12PM out to the back of the shed tonight....
...by the way note that even if a lamp has "500,000" more candle power than another "million" candle power lamp, that is only half again as much light -- only a half an f-stop on a camera, for instance, not really much more more perceptible light comparatively speaking.. (but who understands f-stops these days with all the automatic cameras out now?) -


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 1, 2000)

> Originally posted by Size15s:
> *Okay, so the LSI has a much larger lens than the 12PM.
> Can you tell us the width of both the beams at 20ft please?
> 
> ...


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 2, 2000)

> Originally posted by Size15s:
> *Wow!
> 
> I'm gonna look into getting me an LSI!
> ...


----------



## Brock (Sep 2, 2000)

I was just looking at Botach and they have the LSI 3800, 2 million rechargeable for $55 on sale from $65. I was suppose to go off sale at on the 1st, but I bet they left it for the weekend. It is at http://www.botachtactical.com/lsinittrac38.html 
Hey ted is that the model you have? Is yours rechargeable?

Brock


----------



## **DONOTDELETE** (Sep 2, 2000)

I have the "1.5 million CP cordless rechargeable" - as it says on the label, by LSI..
I see Botach has extended the sale to the 5th, Tuesday, which is good since their site wasn't taking orders Friday ("server problem")..


----------



## Size15's (Sep 3, 2000)

Wow!

I'm gonna look into getting me an LSI!

I suppose I won't be able to slip it into my inside coat pocket like the 12PM though...How big and heavy is the LSI anyway?

Thanks!

Alastair


----------



## Size15's (Sep 5, 2000)

Yes, I have four DL123As in the bottom of my bag, and four in my inside coat pocket...It's almost as if they're hollow or something! The amount they cost, I'm expecting lead weights!





I think the lack of clarity is down to the smaller lens width. Does anyone have a TurboHead 3" lens for their SureFire?


----------



## grinch27 (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm thinking of purchasing a Mcgizmo flashlight but really only know Fenix flashlights. I basically need someone to tell me what lights Don has that compare to the lumens of particular Fenix models so I can get an idea. Im looking purchase from Don an EDC and the brightest one he makes as well , any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance 

Chris


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## nbp (Mar 30, 2013)

Probably you should investigate the McGizmo subforum. 

This thread is looooong dead and has absolutely Nothing to do with your question. Not sure why you posted it here. :shrug:

Anyways, Don has stickies on all his lights.


----------



## socom1970 (Mar 30, 2013)

What nbp said. Don's McGizmo lights and these lights discussed in this thread are worlds apart from each other. I also suggest going to McGizmo's sub-forum under the Custom Flashlight Builders and Modders area. It is near the bottom of the main page of the CPF Forum.


----------



## grinch27 (Mar 30, 2013)

K I'm not sure either? Lol my bad... I'll check it out


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


----------



## mossyoak (Mar 31, 2013)

I really want a sure fire 12pm now...


----------



## jamesmtl514 (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm really happy I have a 12PM right now 

cool blast from the past thread.


----------



## Kestrel (Apr 1, 2013)

jamesmtl514 said:


> I'm really happy I have a 12PM right now
> 
> cool blast from the past thread.



Sorry folks, I'll close this thread as it is considerably outdated by now.

If any of the original contributors from ~13 years ago would like add anything, I'd be happy to reopen the thread.


----------

