# What light do you grab when you sense an intruder in your house?



## greenlight (Nov 28, 2005)

A light big enough to use as a club would be good. Pointed ends? Or do you just grab any light and a baseball bat?

Just curious. I have never had to fend off an intruder, but it could happen.

I thought a SLPPCCC might be good, big, heavy, bright, cheap.


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## cheapo (Nov 28, 2005)

I use my PM6 3w... but, as you can tell by my list of my lights, it is my biggest light.

-David


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## BigBaller (Nov 28, 2005)

L4/.357. Don't bring a bat to a gunfight.


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## cratz2 (Nov 28, 2005)

As of today, I'd probably bring my Streamlight TL-2 LED and a CZ PCR.






And if I had a light mounted on one of my shotguns, I'd bring that instead.


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 28, 2005)

Like BigBaller, the light that works the best with a handgun. Ideally, I won't go looking for the intruder, and will hold my ground in my bedroom, if in the middle of the night, and no kids at home.

Bill


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## Nightwatch (Nov 28, 2005)

It all depends on my mental state when waking up. If it's pretty good I'll grab the Streamlight NF2 and the warhammer, if it's no so good, it'll be the 4 D cell mag and I'll just start swinging...


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## cy (Nov 28, 2005)

Surefire M6/M6R and my PPK


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## LEDMaster2003 (Nov 28, 2005)

Probably my U2. Or the 3D Mag. Or if I had one, one of those SF “Porcupines”


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## tvodrd (Nov 28, 2005)

E2L "error" light on R123s right next to the quatro cinco.  I used to use an M6, but now think the faster turn-on of the LED light would give the perp's eyes less time to blink. Range will be less than 10 feet.

Larry


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## PhotonWrangler (Nov 28, 2005)

I agree that a light would probably be the _second_ thing that I'd grab. :scowl: Having said that I'd choose to use something LED-based that would disorient the perp while I deployed the thing in my other hand.


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## Kershaw (Nov 28, 2005)

SF 9pw/P91 and .40 glock 23.


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## depusm12 (Nov 28, 2005)

I'd grab my Sig Sauer P220 (45 acp) and my Surefire 8NX.


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## JimH (Nov 28, 2005)

Mag 6C with a WA1111 bulb, 5500 mAh NiMH batts, SMO reflector, mineral glass lens. 700+ lumens out the front end for well over an hour and good whacking power


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## WDR65 (Nov 28, 2005)

Surefire A2 and Remington 870 HD. Would like to have a forend light, but that's low priority where I live right now as my bedroom is always fairly well lit. Also a Mag 6D is on my bookcase within easy reach.


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## davidra (Nov 28, 2005)

Probably a Mag 85. No gun, because I might hurt my dog, who would be chewing the guy a new one....a 90 pound lab/Great Dane cross with real strong jaws.....


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## attowatt (Nov 28, 2005)

Modded Dorcy 1xAAA


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## RAF_Groundcrew (Nov 28, 2005)

By choice, probably my M3, with the 225 lumen lamp. I have an M4, but I think it's a little large for inside the house use. I normally have a Surefire of some kind by my bed, it could be the 6P, it could be the Z3 or M3. 
I personally wouldn't use one of my rechargeables (8AX or 8NX) for home defence, because I will have used it at work, and might not have a full charge on the battery..... very bad, running out of light in a minute or two, rather have a 'never use' light with fresh lithiums,ready to go.


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## iNDiGLo (Nov 28, 2005)

I'd grab my Pila GL4 and 4oz FoxLabs 10% OC spray....


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## rmacias (Nov 28, 2005)

I would grab my Surefire L5 and my Glock 23 with Black Talons. I've had false alarms before and this setup is nice for clearing rooms in the middle of the night.

RJM


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## Kryosphinx (Nov 28, 2005)

3C maggmod and a phone. =)


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## AshA4 (Nov 28, 2005)

I have a TL-3 on my nightstand and a nite-ize mini mag to see the remote without disturbing the woman. I have a Brinkman LX mounted on my S&W .45 clip and another on my Mossberg 590. I also have motion sensors on my kitchen light/dining room light and hall light, so nothings moving in the house without something lighting up. However I sleep like a log so I wouldn't hear crap in anycase, my GF on the other hand wakes up when I pass gas.


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## mobile1 (Nov 28, 2005)

Probably my regulated 3 x w-bin 5W (=450 Lumen) Army Light - or the 5W-2D Mag mod. Most likely though a GatLight since that one will be closest...


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## greenlight (Nov 28, 2005)

I don't use a gun. (I think there is a small beretta in the house). There are a few gun owners who responded. How many actually get a gun when they get up to check on a 'sound'? Are you guys creeping around your darkened houses with loaded guns at night? I'm sure there are some unsafe neighborhoods; I just don't live in one. Most are probably just grabbing a flashlight. Nevertheless, that might be the only weapon handy if surprised. Having the right light in hand would be advantageous.


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## TorchMan (Nov 28, 2005)

The LionHeart, the A2 or the PDIII of late, as I keep them by or on the bed.


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## JimH (Nov 28, 2005)

Greenlight,

Well said. 

I've got a whole bunch of pistols, rifles, and shotguns. They're all in the gun safe.


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## rmacias (Nov 28, 2005)

greenlight said:


> I don't use a gun. (I think there is a small beretta in the house). There are a few gun owners who responded. How many actually get a gun when they get up to check on a 'sound'? Are you guys creeping around your darkened houses with loaded guns at night? I'm sure there are some unsafe neighborhoods; I just don't live in one. Most are probably just grabbing a flashlight. Nevertheless, that might be the only weapon handy if surprised. Having the right light in hand would be advantageous.


 
You are right, no need for pistolas for just an odd sound in the middle of the night. But when you sense an intruder in the house the level of security goes up a few notches beyond just a flashlight.

RJM


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## sween1911 (Nov 28, 2005)

AshA4 said:


> However I sleep like a log so I wouldn't hear crap in anycase, my GF on the other hand wakes up when I pass gas.



My wife and I have joked that our home defense setup is: I have the gun, she has a knife. She hears the intruder and then pokes me with the knife to wake me up!  

My what-was-that-noise light is the ole' SF-Z3 w/M2 head that I keep raving about.


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## NewBie (Nov 28, 2005)

Just the act of loudly racking a shotgun, in the house, or on the property, is enough to put a little fear into folks that have designs on my trappings.


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## greenlight (Nov 28, 2005)

rmacias said:


> You are right, no need for pistolas for just an odd sound in the middle of the night. But when you sense an intruder in the house the level of security goes up a few notches beyond just a flashlight.
> 
> RJM



Okay, my original post/question was too specific. If there was someone ransacking your house you would come out with all guns firing *(maybe)*. Usually it is the wind or creaking from temperature change. Some people are 'always' sensing intruders when they are not there. Phantoms? After checking a lot of times and finding nothing, you get used to it. I think I want a big light that I can swing around if I have to. Wouldn't want to throw my L1 at anyone--- I would want the weight of some batteries behind the attack.

Do home invaders tend to carry guns? If confronted with someone with a tactical light, would you expect a stranger in your home to run like hell and not start shooting first? I would. I could be naive. 

The theives in my neighborhood tend to be white teen males looking in cars for ipods or cash. They probably run home to mom's house.


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## picard (Nov 29, 2005)

I grab my Gladius and baseball bat. I carry a backup folding knife too.


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## greenlight (Nov 29, 2005)

NewBie said:


> Just the act of loudly racking a shotgun, in the house, or on the property, is enough to put a little fear into folks that have designs on my trappings.



Maybe I need a flashlight that sounds like a shotgun?


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## GadgetTravel (Nov 29, 2005)

First would be the tiny lights under the numbers 9 and 1 on my phone. The second digit repeated once. Police response where we live is probably (speaking from the experience of a medical emergency) typically close to 3 minutes. Almost certainy under 5 minutes. We live on a peninsula with 3 roads off of it. They have a drill if someone messes up. I was coming home from work one night and there were 11 county police cars waiting at the main road off the peninsula for some idiot that had screwed up in town. We pay high taxes but we have superb police coverage and protection in the area. Also an extremely low crime rate.


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## Solstice (Nov 29, 2005)

How about something like the D cell version of the Electrolumens Tristar Phazer? I think LED would be the way to go since I find that LEDs are more annoying and painful to look into- even 5mm LEDs are disturbing when viewed directly.

As for me, I've got a 3x C cell "baton light," but I might opt for my Inova T4 first since it would really give someone a face full of something they wouldn't want to stare into.

If you wanted to go the Incan route for max brightness, there is always the Tigerlight, which has Mace on one side for just such an occasion.


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## yuandrew (Nov 29, 2005)

Something big and bright (Mag85 comes in mind). As they say; blind them first :duck: then strike them.  I have a "balcony" at the top of my stairs that overlooks the living room and entryway that will serve as a good vantage point. I wonder if one could further disorent an intruder if they strobe the light by rapidly pressing the switch. :duh2: 

My other hand might carry whatever weapon I could find (multitool, razor blade, hot sauce in a squeeze bottle, bb or paintball gun, or the pipe wrench I keep next to my bed.

I might need a third hand for another weapon but home intrusions are rare in my neighborhood. Most of the time when I check out the source of the noise behind my yard, it is made by some wild animal. I've only caught a pair of racoons and an opossum so far but my neighbor mentions seeing a coyote in his backyard


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## my name is fake (Nov 29, 2005)

Id take my C2 to blind whoever it is temporarily. If the situationr becomes out of hand or intruder is dangerous, my motto will be "run as fast as you can"!


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## nighthawk (Nov 29, 2005)

I'd call 911


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## TonkinWarrior (Nov 29, 2005)

Because I...

1. Have pre-decided NEVER to be a victim again, and 
2. Have pre-decided that any un-invited person in my house is a Target, since he must have overcome significant security hurdles to get in, and therefor must be (a) in possession of dangerous tools and weapons, and (b) under the influence of dangerous/controlled stimulants... like 70% + of those in jail for felonious crimes, and 
3. Do not have -- by design -- some weapons-illiterate, gun/flashlight-hating pacifist spouse who thinks burglars should be serenaded with "Kumbaya," and
4. Live in neither a feminized/corrupt "blue" state or a European political system that proscribes self defense ("Oohh, that's violence! Sombody'll get hurt!") and 
5. Have overcome prior academic/leftist/cultural conditioning that demonizes weapons... and those who acquire the knowledge/skill to use them effectively at the Point Of Attack), and
6. Believe that (a) surrender is habit forming, and (b) living in fear is [email protected] pathetic, and...
7. Do NOT believe in the Tooth Fairy...

-->> My prioritized Action Steps would then be/have been:

1. Confirm the status/location of my Loved Ones.
2. Grab the old-reliable Colt 1911 semi-automatic (which, by the way, ain't an "assault weapon").
3. Confirm it's loaded/chambered with the nastiest .45 hollow-points money can buy (they ain't For The Children/For The Common Good, blah blah, etc.).
4. Make sure my spouse has HER weapon and flashlight handy.
5. Stuff an extra magazine in my bathrobe pocket... next to the knife that's already there.
6. Grab my Surefire L5.
7. Shout "Hillary? Howard? Teddy? That you? Shall we dance? Go for a swim?" down the hallway.
8. Proceed to go hunting (yeah, against the advice of police "suits" hired by/beholden to politicians of a certain, umm, persuasion), using a cautious "slice the pie" technique with my .45 and L5.
9. Locate and corner the intruder... from my position of cover.
10. If tactically feasible, give him/them 2 seconds to kiss the carpet, before I...
11. Pump 2 fast center-mass shots into him/them... and keep shooting until they cease movement/are out of action.

Then, when my ears stop ringing:

1. Reload the .45.
2. Inspect the house for broken locks/doors/windows.
3. Search the house again... for any hiding crooks.
4. Scan the house's exterior (via SF L5 light, from a window) looking for crook's pals, look-outs, get-away vehicles, etc.
5. Verify that my Loved Ones are OK.
6. Have my spouse (armed) cover the poor, socially-disadvantaged, dying intruder(s) while I (a) examine their wounds, and (b) if alive, ask them what they think about Gun Control, the Million Moms, Global Warming, MTV, and the U.N..
7. Throw towells about the carcass(es) to minimize damage to my carpets.
8. Light a good cigar.
9. Call the police... so they can get there -- no rush -- to write up a report and take photographs before the blood gets too dry and attracts flies.
10. Call my lawyer.

Then I'd put fresh 123's in my SF L5, pour myself a bourbon, and wait for the cops to arrive... followed by the local TV crews hot on the trail of another insipid story about Gun Violence in America. I've already got a list of "My Critics Who Weren't There To Defend Me When It Hit The Fan." I'll give that list to the TV reporters. I'm sure they'll be interrupting those folks' chardonnay-tastings to extract the usual quotes about us reactionary, volence-prone John Wayne types, blah-blah, etcetera.

Beyond the above, I have no strong opinions. OTOH, I Have Been There.

You may now Q-up that "Kumbaya" soundtrack if you find it comforting.


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## CroMAGnet (Nov 29, 2005)

I grab my Tiger11 first which pus out over 500 LUMENS and floods a large area with a lot of intimidating light but can back it up with a shot of pepper spray to closing targets.

In the other hand I have a Commando II which is a flashlight with a very disorientatiing stun-gun for a bezel.

I just found some kewl gel pepper spray that is great for close quarter and enclosed rooms. It's like a big gob in the face that gets worse as you try to wipe it off.

My house is not a good place to prowl, day or night.


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## attowatt (Nov 29, 2005)

nighthawk said:


> I'd call 911






Not in New Orleans....... :shakehead


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## beezaur (Nov 29, 2005)

I've never tried to manage a shotgun and a flashlight at the same time, but I don't think it would be real easy. I'm not sure you would really want anything over about 200 lumens either. That seems to much for close quarters.

Are you guys really prepared to put a hole in a living, breathing human being with a family or at least a few friends? Are you ready to severely maim them or send them to the grave, risking your own life in the process, just because they might be drunk and lost or trying to rob you? It is an enourmously high-energy situation that you are creating by stalking an unknown with a deadly weapon.



TonkinWarrior said:


> Because I...
> 
> 1. Have pre-decided NEVER to be a victim again . . .



That's pretty much the scene with me. I try not to live in the shadow of death cast by past transgressions against me. However, if you convince me that you are a mortal danger to me or mine, I will respond in kind.

SureFire A2 red and a Beretta 92F.

Scott


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## InfidelCastro (Nov 29, 2005)

River Rock 2C flashlight from Target. Got about twenty minutes runtime so far on the original batteries so it should last quite awhile yet, though I might purchase some Lithiums just for increased brightness. I don't even know if they make lithium C's to be honest. Advertised runtime of 9+ hours on Alkalines. It's my new "when things go bump in the night" flashlight. Might get an Inova X03 eventually. Got a Mini Maglite 2AA with NightIze laying behind it for my get up at night and drain the cyclops light (or for just plain walking around without having to turn on the lights). Also, in case the River Rock would not turn on it will get me to the "Flashlight shelf" on my bookshelf to find my G2 or something else.

I used to use a Surefire G2 and before that a Surefire E2E, but I just don't trust Xenon lamps for when things really hit the fan. I had one blink out on me once at a bad time (it was batteries that had run their course, not the lamp)... And as mentioned previously, LED lights can be painful to look at even indirectly.

*Edited (aside from weapons as per IsaacHayes request) hehehe..*


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 29, 2005)

Weapons aside, the *light* I would grab would be my tri-lux mag, as it's the brightest I have, does not have a distracting "tunnel vision" hotspot, has enough bright sidespill to light up a whole room and quickly see if someone is hiding off to the side. It's great for building searches and you can use the momentary and do "sweeps" with it to disorientate any intruder and keep him guessing where you are. LED's do tend to blind the eyes more I've found too.

I would move very quickly and quietly through the house, only activating the light when I couldn't see or thought I was close to the intruder. If I had no other weapon, then the light might aid in close combat, where speed and surprise would be my advantage.

Loosing the basic momentary funtion of my tri-light was the reason I decided not to put a d2dim circuit in it. Sure diming it for extra run time would be really practicle, and usefull for camping/etc, but would complicate the light for times of emergency. It's my main powerhouse, so it stays simple.


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## InfidelCastro (Nov 29, 2005)

IsaacHayes said:


> Weapons aside, the *light* I would grab would be my tri-lux mag, as it's the brightest I have, does not have a distracting "tunnel vision" hotspot, has enough bright sidespill to light up a whole room and quickly see if someone is hiding off to the side. It's great for building searches and you can use the momentary and do "sweeps" with it to disorientate any intruder and keep him guessing where you are. LED's do tend to blind the eyes more I've found too.
> 
> I would move very quickly and quietly through the house, only activating the light when I couldn't see or thought I was close to the intruder. If I had no other weapon, then the light might aid in close combat, where speed and surprise would be my advantage.
> 
> Loosing the basic momentary funtion of my tri-light was the reason I decided not to put a d2dim circuit in it. Sure diming it for extra run time would be really practicle, and usefull for camping/etc, but would complicate the light for times of emergency. It's my main powerhouse, so it stays simple.



Powerfull floodlights are certainly good for unfamiliar surroundings. I prefer a combination of throw and flood for average sized familiar surroundings though.


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## Firebladz (Nov 29, 2005)

I don't, because I live in CANADA!!! :wave:


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## InfidelCastro (Nov 29, 2005)

Firebladz said:


> I don't, because I live in CANADA!!! :wave:



They don't have flashlights in Canada?? Hehehe..


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## stuart (Nov 29, 2005)

I would like to say I'd grab my Surefire G2 and my Sig P220 that I keep by by bedside for such an occasion but in reality I would probably grab my SL 4AA Luxeon that would more than likely be nearby because I use it so much, and use it to navigate to my a room down the hall where I keep my duty belt with the above items. I know, not very tactical, I always tell myself I'm going to get into the habit of keeping said items ready by the bedstand but I never do. Kind of like how I intend, but never do, check the tire pressure in the spare tires in the cars, check the pressure in the fire extinguishers etc.


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## Lunal_Tic (Nov 29, 2005)

Might check out this thread: Something goes BUMP in the night . . .  

It was about all bumps, two legged and otherwise. 

-LT


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## IsaacHayes (Nov 29, 2005)

InfidelCastro: My tri-light isn't all flood. It's got a large hotspot, but it does throw! I can light up tree tops in my back yard from my house that are easily 100ft+ tall. In close quarters as indoors and such, a tight beam would be bad as you would have to "chase" your target with it. My tri-light is a perfect combination of throw and flood I'd say.


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## NoFair (Nov 29, 2005)

If I thought it a real threat to me and my family I'd grab my Wolfeyes 9M and a 9mm, and get my fiance to call the police... 

Normally any bump in the night is responded to by grabbing just the light....
It would have to be pretty extreme for me to go to the step of grabbing a gun..

Even if I live in pacifist Europe it perfectly legal to shoot somebody if there is a threat to you or your family.... I know some of you americans find that hard to belive....

Sverre


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## TORCH_BOY (Nov 29, 2005)

My Shotgun


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## JonSidneyB (Nov 29, 2005)

12ZM and 9x23 Custom Double Stack or Remington 870, or Mini-14


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## vtunderground (Nov 29, 2005)

Pelican M6 LED







(accessorized with the optional Remington 870 12-gauge  )


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## Anders (Nov 29, 2005)

Here in Sweden we are not allowed to use more violence then necessary.

Sometimes one or another houseowner shoot a intruder, it ends up with jail for the houseowner and the thief, if he is surviving, could claim for damages...............:huh2:

Anders


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## Roy (Nov 29, 2005)

...intruder in my house? Let's see...I'd go for the laser attached to my Colt Mdl M1991A1 .45cal ACP! :naughty:


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## zespectre (Nov 29, 2005)

Actually I'd probably grab the cat... you know, grab cat, pull pin (yank tail) to prime, toss in room with intruder and close door.

The cops can arrest whatever is left later.


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## seattlite (Nov 29, 2005)

An M3T with an XX1T LED module running with 2 x Pila 150S, while waiting for my M6R battery pack, then the M6R.


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## ddemon440 (Nov 29, 2005)

I grab my Remington 870 12 guage and turn the light switch on. And yes i get it any time the dog barks or the roof creaks, because the sound that you think is the wind will be the one that kills you.


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## cslinger (Nov 29, 2005)

Since the original post indicated that one is sensing that there is an intruder in the house it would be this one. I will not do a house search unless absolutely necessary though as that is generally suicide to do on your own. Let the professionals do their thing while I batton down the hatches in a defendable postion. 

870 with Surefire Foreend





Now 99% of the time an unfamilar noise does not put me into intruder mode. Like another posted stated it is likely wind or something to that effect. In those normal power out, late night don't want to turn all the lights on excursions it is usually one of these.


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## nethiker (Nov 29, 2005)

Where I live we don't even have 24 hour law enforcement. They're on-call for the wee hours of the morning. Since responce times are usually over 30 minutes anyways, most everyone here has a gun or three. It's not very safe to visit your neighbor unannounced in the middle of the night. 

I now use a SF M6 with a .44 mag Trail Boss to back it up. More concerned about the wolves, lions and bears since people usually know better than to poke around in the dark. It's actually a concern for us responding to fire/medical calls. We try to let law enforcement introduce us first.


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## Phaserburn (Nov 29, 2005)

Tigerlight OC.


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## springnr (Nov 29, 2005)

Turtlelite II, I don't hunt noises. 

Dail 911 ???


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## TonkinWarrior (Nov 29, 2005)

+1 on your "Dial 911" link, Springnr.
------------------------------------------

"Criminals must be taught to fear their victims."
-- Col. Jeff Cooper, Principles Of Personal Defense"

"I do believe that where there is a choice only between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence."
-- Gandhi

"A gun in the hand beats a cop on the phone."
-- Anon.


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## cslinger (Nov 29, 2005)

Ya bunch of gun nuts.


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## RadarGreg (Nov 29, 2005)

Whatever light is taped to my shotgun. I doubt a robber would snicker at a miniMag or even a Hello Kitty light when facing the business end of a Mossberg, haha!


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## hburner (Nov 29, 2005)

UltraStinger, .45ACP


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## RAF_Groundcrew (Nov 29, 2005)

Gun envy and drooling from a former shooter over in the 'civilised' United Kingdom.
 :mecry:


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## johns (Nov 29, 2005)

Yeah - gotta go with the 12 Ga. Mossberg pump


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## Lmtfi (Nov 29, 2005)

A Mossberg 500. When operated correctly there will a significant brilliant flash.


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## NotRegulated (Nov 29, 2005)

ITI M3 Tactical Light.


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## jeep44 (Nov 29, 2005)

Well, like a couple of others here, I would grab my Remington 870 with the SF weaponlight.


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## Learjet (Nov 29, 2005)

Infrared illuminated night vision scope. Silence of the lambs style. 

I ain't sayin what I'd do next, but the situation should be sewn up in no time. :devil:


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 29, 2005)

Very VERY little chance I'll wake up to less than some SEVERE noise (or when the power goes out and it gets DEATHLY quiet)...

Besides, the Intruder will have tripped over one or two of 11 dogs (many of which will be raising three kinds of H377!).

Also my room is pretty well lit from a pole light out back, so within that space I think I have the upper hand.

That said, I REALLY mean to go dig my homemade Gun Safe out from under coffee table and other assorted junk in the garage and withdraw my 870 from within as law enforcment out here is minimum 15 minutes away and probably more!

That said I'll probably be asleep even after my clock radio starts blaring.


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## UVvis (Nov 29, 2005)

Surefire M910A


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## dale465 (Nov 29, 2005)

I find that the streamlight propolymer 7 Led can be quite blinding in a dark room even though it's more of a flood light. I also have a brinkmann maxfire nearby; Kind of a poor mans G2.


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## Vee3 (Nov 30, 2005)

Some of the best things you can do (If your home is equipped with remote switching) is to turn on the lights in all rooms but the one you're in, arm yourself, lock the door and call the cops (If you can be fairly sure that they will be able to get to you quickly). Kids in other rooms complicate matters of course. Dogs are good.

Statistics and tests show that you are much more likely to be killed by an armed intruder if you go looking for him with a flashlight rather than staying put. He most likely will have one or more advantages that will put you in a bad spot.

That said, I always have a handgun and flashlight in the bedroom. Comprehensive handgun training is well worth the money IMO. I hope I can avoid ever having to use it...


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## Lightraven (Nov 30, 2005)

Home invasions are diverse enough to make it difficult to generalize the motives, the types of people, the actions or reactions of the bad guys. The more I read though, the less prepared I feel.

I have read a bit about home invasions. We just had one in San Diego a few days ago that resulted in the execution murders of two of the residents. Conducted by three gunmen wearing masks at 10 AM. They escaped.

Home invasions are nothing to take lightly. Frequently, they happen lightning fast with the first warning your front door being smashed open. Other times, there is a ruse, with someone knocking on your door requesting help.

One night, I had a young woman with a child knock on my door and request to use my telephone. She was dressed a bit like a gypsy. I hesitated, then leaned out my doorway. Off in the bushes, standing outside my line of sight from my doorway was a scruffy man in his 20's. "Who is that?" I asked. "Oh, that's my boyfriend," she replied. I said, "Uh, I think there may be a pay phone up the street." I closed the door and she screamed a string of obscenities at me through my locked door. Home invasion setup?

If I strongly suspected intruder(s) was/were in my apartment, I'd grab my gun and go out the window. I'd find the nearest phone and call the cops. I keep a flashlight next to my bed but I wouldn't bother with it. In law enforcement, there is no shame in requesting backup, and that is exactly what I would be doing.


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## cslinger (Nov 30, 2005)

Just as an aside I have worked 911 as both operator and dispatcher and have listened/been involved in numerous home invasion situations. Like was said they happen lighting fast and are typically brutal. The rule of thumb is have a gun and have it close by as in within reach while you are home. Those folks who had a gun typically survived and in many cases ran off even armed invaders without a shot. Those folks who did not were almost always at the very least brutally beaten and in many cases thought to be witnesses and loose ends...........do the math. 

Case in point there was a string of instances where a large man was casing little old lady's houses, knocking on their door asking for phone or directions and then forcing his way in. He would always beat the person to whithin an inch of their life grab all the easy to get stuff and leave. This went on for two weeks regularly. We never got him. The little old lady who answered the door with a loaded .357 magnum did. 

That being said the bright side is this type of crime is usually crime on crime but this stuff really does happen, it really does happen fast and people really are brutal. The cops cannot be their during the 15 seconds that it takes to kill you. Don't dial 911 until you are safe, whether through escape and evasion or the threat has been stopped. Don't go looking for the threat. Do not try to engage the threat. Get the hell out of Dodge or bunker down and call for backup. Just be prepared to defend yourself at all times.

My two cents but whatdoIknow.


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## diggdug13 (Nov 30, 2005)

I keep my trusty LionHeart next to me on my bedstand with trinium so I can see it, it's the perfect light for me to check things that go bump in the night (usually me when my wife kicks me out to see what it was). and to check on the little ones. If there really is something that is going bump in the night I've got my baseball bat with my Lionheart to ward them off.

doug


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## besafe2 (Nov 30, 2005)

greenlight said:


> A light big enough to use as a club would be good. Pointed ends? Or do you just grab any light and a baseball bat?
> 
> Just curious. I have never had to fend off an intruder, but it could happen.
> 
> I thought a SLPPCCC might be good, big, heavy, bright, cheap.



To answer your question, Surefire 6P & my gun. First call 911 & account for family members. Never try to clear your house by your self. Stay in your safe room with door locked.


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## AdamW (Nov 30, 2005)

XM-3, since that is what is next to the bed.

Wife is on the cell phone to 911, and I man the Beretta 96G Elite II loaded with .40S&W Golden Sabers.

We give the police a code word to use to identify themselves when they arrive while we sit tight and cover the door and window.

I am deployed right now, so my wife won't be so nice. Now you get to face my wife with the Beretta, and she will kill whoever forces their way into the bedroom. We can afford the legal defense.

Adam


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## Darkheart (Nov 30, 2005)

This one


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## tron3 (Nov 30, 2005)

greenlight said:


> A light big enough to use as a club would be good. Pointed ends? Or do you just grab any light and a baseball bat?
> 
> Just curious. I have never had to fend off an intruder, but it could happen.
> 
> I thought a SLPPCCC might be good, big, heavy, bright, cheap.


 
Had the occasional funny feeling I check out, but never a true intruder. Thank the Lord.

However, if I was fairly certain I needed to confront one, I would grab my Striker-Vg for the blinding strobe, and my 3-D cell Steamlight for the striking blow.  

*By the way, if you MUST use your 3 D cell maglite as a striking object, hold it by the head for a better grip, not the shaft. If you end up wrestling for it in a tug war, you have the edge. It still will pack a mighty wallop. :buddies: *


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## AlanH (Nov 30, 2005)

I lived in NM for a while up in the mountains above Albq, a State Trooper who got called to my house which we found broken into after returning from a shopping trip said:

"it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6, if someoine is in the house and poses any kind of threat, they get all the rounds you can lay down"

This was the actual advice given to my wife. 

So I guess my answer to the original question is any light that is nearby, backed up by something that makes it own flashes from the business end.

Sadly in the UK, it ain't possible or legal to have the handgun option and even using a legal shotgun or firearm would definitely see you in court. You would also lose the right to have any weapons until the court case was decided. But I guess at least if you were under threat, you would be alive to see court. After that it's just a legal system lottery.

And if the bump turned out to be nothing or a stray cat or other such harmless thing, no-one would know that you had been holding the loaded option.

Alan


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## rmacias (Nov 30, 2005)

I see a lot of people recommend just staying in your room armed and waiting for the police to show up. That's fine if you are single or you don't have kids. But the whole scenario changes when you have precious little ones in the house. The rooms for our kids are the most secure in the house but you better believe I will confront an attacker and do everything possible to secure their safety. 

RJM


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## cslinger (Nov 30, 2005)

Differet tactics for different situations. Were I to have kids I would round them up first and foremost as well.................or place claymore at their doors. 

Chris


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## CM (Nov 30, 2005)

This light, with the attached accessory.






Seriously, I would probably never need to use these since I live in such a boring neighborhood. But like the boy scouts, I'm prepared.


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## AlanH (Nov 30, 2005)

With toys like that available, why did I ever come back to the UK ?

And I'd save a small fortune on postage for shipping lights and sharps !

Dammit !

Alan


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Nov 30, 2005)

CM said:


> This light, with the attached accessory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man it would be my FERVENT hope that you'd never need to use THAT! Especially was I to be your neighbor!

Seriously, even here in the semi sticks I would use no more than a Shotgun or .45 ACP... someone unintendid could very well catch a .223....

(I'm going right now to get the 870 out of the safe!)

VERY cool gun however!!!


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## CM (Nov 30, 2005)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> Man it would be my FERVENT hope that you'd never need to use THAT! Especially was I to be your neighbor!
> 
> Seriously, even here in the semi sticks I would use no more than a Shotgun or .45 ACP... someone unintendid could very well catch a .223....
> 
> ...



It is a very common misconception that a 5.56 round will go through wallboard more so than pistol rounds. In fact, it is just the opposite and hence the trend for many LE departments to transition from pistol caliber carbines (9mm Colt carbines and HK MP5's) to the AR platform for entry work. I practice more with the AR than with my 870 or pistols, so that's what I'm going to grab. Train like you fight and fight like you train as they say. Here's another reason I grab the AR instead of the scattergun : http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot18.htm

BTW, it is also my fervent hope I would never have to use this thing. But it sure is fun at the range


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## Ropes4u (Nov 30, 2005)

If I was asleep a E2e with out turning it on - if awake a E2e either way I bring along 2 dogs and a SIG P239.


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## makar (Dec 1, 2005)

also tigerlight


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## snakebite (Dec 1, 2005)

a lux v based homebrew with tapeswitch attached to the forearm of a lead enema delivery device.(mr mossberg)shotgun mounted lights are good for target id and safer for my neighbors should i need to blast 2 legged vermin.


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## amlim (Dec 1, 2005)

Anders said:


> Here in Sweden we are not allowed to use more violence then necessary.
> 
> Sometimes one or another houseowner shoot a intruder, it ends up with jail for the houseowner and the thief, if he is surviving, could claim for damages...............:huh2:
> 
> Anders


 
no disrespect, but thats a stupid law.


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## Templar223 (Dec 1, 2005)

I grab my Brinkmann Maxfire and the S&W 64 revolver.

If I'm taking the ensconced defender position behind my bed until the cops get there, I'll upgrade to the Winchester Defender 12 gauge with the same light.

Yeah, I've got bigger lights but:

1. I don't need 3MCP to see a target 12' away.
2. I don't entirely trust rechargeable batteries that haven't been charged recently.

Do you think I should bring Thor upstairs?

John


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## Coop57 (Dec 1, 2005)

My SF E2E and my Glock 17.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 1, 2005)

FINALLY! I wasn't too beat or too lazy to get my 870 Boom Stick out of the Lock Up in the Garage. One Buck #4 up the spout with four backing it up. I was wrong about something. I was thinking about 16 pellets and the actual count is 27. Still, I would NOT want to catch a #4!!!

I have some #0 as well... 12 fairly substantial pellets!

Good luck bad guy!


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## rmacias (Dec 1, 2005)

I would grab my DE.50AE torch. The only downside is that both the intruder and I would be temporarily blinded.  






RJM


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## savumaki (Dec 1, 2005)

If my 65# lab/rottie needs any help, the L2 and W/Defender are close at hand.


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## Firebladz (Dec 1, 2005)

Wow you guys are all NUTZ! :nana: 


whatever happened to grabbing a candle and a rolling pin? don't any of you guys bake? LoL


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 2, 2005)

No we're normal! It's the people without bright lights and dogs and guns that are nutz!

There is something comforting about an 870 with an 18" barrel....


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## Wrangler (Dec 2, 2005)

Interesting thread, as we are victims for the second time already!
The first time, a burglar broke in our house over the terrace door and took some articles of value. That was in daytime when nobody was at home.
The 2.nd time was only 2 weeks ago!!!! 
When my wife went to the kitchen in the morning and was looking for her handbag, she couldn`t find it anymore. Long story short, there was an "uninvited" in our house and robbed us, while we were sleeping upstairs! Police told us, that this guy had 2 other "customers" this night and always came into the houses by the f r o n t door!

As long as my heartly beloved "Rico" was alive, nobody would have even thought of getting inside our house. (Rico was a beautiful 35kgs + ~77lbs + bullterrier.)

Now I upgraded my lights beside my bed from an Inova X5T to an additional Mag85 ! A club of palmwood always handy, too. And believe me, I will use it if needed!!!
Good thing is, nothing happened to my wife and myself. 
Bad thing is, my wife is really scared now when she is alone in the house and I`m on my weekly business trip to switzerland.

(BTW, law is really strange in germany. It`s likely possible you`ll be condemned, if you hurt a burglar too hard and he`s injured too much! But I don`t care about.)
Be prepared and

T A K E C A R E,

Wolfgang


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## Learjet (Dec 2, 2005)

Yeah it's the same here in Australia. We're not supposed to use unnecessary force. Court lotto for jail time for killing/injuring a burglar. 

Most households don't have hand guns with the tougher gun laws, and if we had rifles they have to be locked away so tight you'd never get them out in time, find the ammo that has to be stored separately blah blah. By the time you put the two together etc it would be Christmas. 2015.

So I guess we should just ask them nicely to go away. Else see if they want a hand loading the van up. Maybe just give them keys to the house and walk off.


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## cyberhobo (Dec 2, 2005)

I would grab my Benelli M3T Tactical mounted with a SL-TL3 chambered with 3" slugs. Haven't had to though, my rotties keep any would be intruders away.


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## Templar223 (Dec 2, 2005)

Guys and Girls:

While I'm very new to advanced flashlight knowledge, I am a firearms and personal defense instructor with ten years of practice.

DO NOT BRING A FLASHLIGHT TO A GUN OR KNIFE FIGHT.

You will lose badly every time. Relying on a dog for your personal defense is like relying on a 2D flashlight to change a tire on the side of a highway. 

If you've thought this long and hard about good flashlights, you should give the same thought to firearm ownership (as a majority of those here apparently have) for personal defense. Violent crime can happen anywhere at any time.

John


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## cyberhobo (Dec 2, 2005)

rmacias said:


> I would grab my DE.50AE torch. The only downside is that both the intruder and I would be temporarily blinded.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hee, heee...


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## cyberhobo (Dec 2, 2005)

zespectre said:


> Actually I'd probably grab the cat... you know, grab cat, pull pin (yank tail) to prime, toss in room with intruder and close door.
> 
> The cops can arrest whatever is left later.


 
 :lolsign:


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## Firebladz (Dec 2, 2005)

You all must have many holes in your walls lol! 
Just be careful not  any family members just going for a pee in the middle of the night...


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## cslinger (Dec 2, 2005)

> Just be careful not any family members just going for a pee in the middle of the night...



Sorry once the perimeter is set you wait till' moring. Othewise you pays your money, you takes your chances.


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## creampuff (Dec 2, 2005)

My wife adopted a mutt from a rescue organization. Two weeks after they bonded, my wife was coughing/choking on her breakfast - nothing major, just a little coughing. When she went outside, she found the dog trying to dig under the house to get inside to rescue her (of course the dog didn't know about the 8 inch slab of concrete for the foundation). I have no doubt this dog will sense an intruder before anyone else will.

But just in case man's best friend does sense an intruder, a sig 220 w/ 230 gr golden sabres should do fine. And if I had more time to get it, my Vang Comp'd Remington 870 with ghost rings will help. Whoops..the original question was what light?.... um...SF u2. Originally I was thinking MC + WA1160, but I might lose my own night vision.


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## V-1 (Dec 2, 2005)

A 7 shot, 18" barrel Remington 870 12 GA loaded with 00 buckshot with a Surefire 618FA Weaponlight pump forend. Accompanied, of course, by my beloved mutt (rescued from the pound) also known as "THE EARLY WARNING SYSTEM".  Wife manning a cell phone to reach 911, SIG P228 & Surefire E2d. Landlines can be cut you know. 

I wouldn't recommend confronting a home intruder with only a flashlight but to each their own.


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## V-1 (Dec 2, 2005)

Anders said:


> Here in Sweden we are not allowed to use more violence then necessary.
> 
> Sometimes one or another houseowner shoot a intruder, it ends up with jail for the houseowner and the thief, if he is surviving, could claim for damages...............:huh2:
> 
> Anders



That's sad and quite an injustice. But injustices are everywhere in every country. You just have to keep trying to chip away at them politically.

Now back to some flashlight content, did I mention the Surefire E2d and 618FA?


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## 357 (Dec 2, 2005)

Hmm....Surefire L5 matched with a 4" .357 Magnum revolver.


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## Schuey2002 (Dec 2, 2005)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> *No we're normal! It's the people without bright lights and dogs and guns that are nutz!*
> 
> There is something comforting about an 870 with an 18" barrel....


Hahahaha! That's a good one! 

The light that I currently use to check out those "bumps in the night", is my L4/PR-T combo. An upgrade to a KT2 + 9P/or G2+AN14 mod is in the works..  Oh, yeah, that G19 laying on my bedstand always comes along for the ride. :naughty:


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## 357 (Dec 2, 2005)

rmacias said:


> You are right, no need for pistolas for just an odd sound in the middle of the night. But when you sense an intruder in the house the level of security goes up a few notches beyond just a flashlight.
> 
> RJM



That odd sound could very well be trouble. Why risk being unprepared if things get ugly?


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## CLHC (Dec 2, 2005)

Used a stock MagCharger and stood a few paces behind my brother when he thought he saw people at the side of the house. He had his MagCharger and his S&W .38. Of course all was clear.

The one time my mom 'sensed an intruder' I grabbed the SF.M6+SF.M3 both with HOLAs. No one but us family members. At my bedside and within arms reach are my SF.M6, SF.M3 and SF.M2.—That's all.


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## TigerLight Pro (Dec 2, 2005)

All of the TigerLights can be mounted to Firearms using our rail mount holster system. 

See www.tigerlight.net for details


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## TigerLight Pro (Dec 2, 2005)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> FINALLY! I wasn't too beat or too lazy to get my 870 Boom Stick out of the Lock Up in the Garage. One Buck #4 up the spout with four backing it up. I was wrong about something. I was thinking about 16 pellets and the actual count is 27. Still, I would NOT want to catch a #4!!!
> 
> I have some #0 as well... 12 fairly substantial pellets!
> 
> Good luck bad guy!


 Playboyjoeschmoe,

I have a recommendation to you and all the shotgunners. The federal tactical laod in a Rem 870 will give you the bennefit of doubleot pellets (.32 cal? per pellet) and it has a group of about 6 inches at 25 yards.


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## TigerLight Pro (Dec 2, 2005)

Wrangler said:


> Interesting thread, as we are victims for the second time already!
> The first time, a burglar broke in our house over the terrace door and took some articles of value. That was in daytime when nobody was at home.
> The 2.nd time was only 2 weeks ago!!!!
> When my wife went to the kitchen in the morning and was looking for her handbag, she couldn`t find it anymore. Long story short, there was an "uninvited" in our house and robbed us, while we were sleeping upstairs! Police told us, that this guy had 2 other "customers" this night and always came into the houses by the f r o n t door!
> ...




As a LEO I am always interested in this specific discussion. In my experience most people would not shoot if they had a gun and they would likely get shot with their own gun. I recommend a book called "On Killing" and "On Combat" written by Lt. Col Grossman. He talks about this extensively. I am a big supporter of shooting burglars. For the ten percent of the population who are skilled, equiped, and mentally suited for this, I hope you live in a bad neiborhood so you can thin the herd. For those of you who want to be properly eqiped and trained and prepared I recommend that you contact Marshall Luton at Tulso PD. He will teach youwhat you need to know. Tell him I sent you, He is a WARRIOR.

I have a video of a police officer from Georgia who was not able to shoot and this was a veteran officer, when it came to it. He is quite dead and I have the video of the incident it is gut wrenching. If you want it I will give it to you via email.


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## TKC (Dec 3, 2005)

I would grab my G2 and my Kahr w/nite sights. I have had some training, and always want more. I currently hold a CCW permit in several states. I have given it a great deal of thought, before deciding to carry a gun. And I have therefore made the decision that should I need to defend my life, I WILL shoot the person. I do not make this decision lightly either. Everyday I wear my gun, I make this decision. Anyway........ I digressed.


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## TigerLight Pro (Dec 4, 2005)

TKC said:


> I would grab my G2 and my Kahr w/nite sights. I have had some training, and always want more. I currently hold a CCW permit in several states. I have given it a great deal of thought, before deciding to carry a gun. And I have therefore made the decision that should I need to defend my life, I WILL shoot the person. I do not make this decision lightly either. Everyday I wear my gun, I make this decision. Anyway........ I digressed.



That is exactly what you have to do, make the decision in advance. If you have to think when the time comes I will send you flowers. I have been in numerous gun fights and ambused several times. That is not the time to make big decisions.


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## VWTim (Dec 4, 2005)

It really depends on the level of noise. If it's a random bump, it could be my gf's pet Rabbits, sometimes they get excited and knock their cages off the table onto the garage floor. If it's something that I can't identify and the noise continues it's make sure the bedroom door is locked as we're calling 911. 

If it really is someone, she'll be in the closet with some handgun, I'll have my 1911 and TL-2 in my hands, and an 870 in the corner. No sense in looking for trouble and giving them the tactical advantage. All the while shouting commands that we're armed, the police are on the way, and to get the F out NOW.


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## Kris (Dec 4, 2005)

Night-Ops Gladius and Surefire M3.


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## NoFair (Dec 4, 2005)

TigerLight Pro said:


> That is exactly what you have to do, make the decision in advance. If you have to think when the time comes I will send you flowers. I have been in numerous gun fights and ambused several times. That is not the time to make big decisions.



We had the same issue in the army; soldiers not fireing and letting people get too close and getting themselves injured/killed. We were taught pretty strict rules on when to fire, but if a suspected threat came too close or too fast or didn't obey orders we were taught to aim for the torso with a quick double tap and assess the target before fireing more...

I think people who want to rely on guns for selv defence should practice a with their weapon under realistic conditions, and decide before they grab the gun if they plan to use it to kill somebody.

just my 0.02

Sverre

PS! If it's dark a flashlight is a nice aid...


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## InfidelCastro (Dec 4, 2005)

TigerLight Pro said:


> I have a video of a police officer from Georgia who was not able to shoot and this was a veteran officer, when it came to it. He is quite dead and I have the video of the incident it is gut wrenching. If you want it I will give it to you via email.



I assume you're talking about the infamous Officer Dinkheller video. He was gunned down by a Vietnam vet with a .30 carbine. The guy was 22 years old and not experienced at all. He did in fact shoot, but he handled the situation very poorly. The felon judged him as weak and he paid for it with his life.


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## Templar223 (Dec 9, 2005)

TigerLight Pro said:


> As a LEO I am always interested in this specific discussion. In my experience most people would not shoot if they had a gun and they would likely get shot with their own gun.




With all due respect to Mr. Teig:

Can you cite me some specific examples of people getting shot with their own gun in a lethal force encounter after failing to pull the trigger on a bad guy?

Frankly, I know not of a single case (and please enlighten me) where this has happened.

I've been teaching self-defense and personal protection for ten years now and I can't think of any of my students who wouldn't pull the trigger in a crucial instant. Some, I worry, might shoot a little too soon and that's why I repeatedly tell them in so many words, 'even if the bad guy is bought and paid for, do you really have to shoot?' 

One of my more timid students - and old man who had suffered several strokes and was partially disabled - even told me a year after I taught him that he used his new gun to thwart a knife attack by one of his renters (Mr. drunken knife-weilder was arrested hours later).

I also am the editor emeritus of a modest size gun rights organization's monthly journal and I spend a lot of time researching across the web for stories. I can't remember in the last six or seven years a single "person wouldn't shoot" story where the BG took the gun away and shot the non-shooting good guy.

I personally have been in a lethal force encounter where two large snarling rotties began charging - unrestrained!! - from behind an SUV at a camp site in Indiana a few years ago. Immediately to my side between me and the dogs was a blind 8-year-old girl (daughter of g-friend's brother's now wife). I had already decided to start shooting as soon as I had the front sight on either dog as I stepped around the girl and drew my Surefire 6 with my weak hand and gun with the right. The owner of the dogs heard them snarling and charging and called the dogs off just in the nick of time. 

Mr Teig, you might know a-plenty about designing and marketing flashlights, but I suspect you don't know jack about good guys using their guns to thwart criminals. 

Your assertions do not square with any of the anecdotal and empirical data I've ever seen.

Your assertion sounds a lot like the poppycock coming from the likes of Sarah Brady and crew.

John


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## chevrofreak (Dec 12, 2005)

Thissun.







Currently have a Digilight NT9 with RX9v mounted on it.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Dec 12, 2005)

I would grab the phone and dial 911.


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## cyberhobo (Dec 12, 2005)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> I would grab the phone and dial 911.


 
That's the correct answer. Especially, the _politically_ correct answer.:devil:


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## V-1 (Dec 12, 2005)

I would grab the phone and dial 911.


cyberhobo said:


> That's the correct answer. Especially, the _politically_ correct answer.:devil:



Good first move no doubt....but what would you do while you wait for the police to arrive?


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## Arkayne (Dec 12, 2005)

greenlight said:


> Maybe I need a flashlight that sounds like a shotgun?



Greeny, guess what? I was browsing the 2006 Surefire catalog and found exactly what you are looking for!

It's the SureFire WeaponLight X200-SSES (Shotgun Sound Emulator Speaker) I think it comes with 2GB so you can also load up your .mp3's  





lol, I'll jump on any oppotunity to photoshop something!


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## RA40 (Dec 12, 2005)

Our intruders are pretty stealthy and we have evening night patrols to secure the perimeter and immediate area. That said, they still infiltrate and take up observation positions to check our progress almost daily. We are greatly outnumbered but fortunately they are not as agressive as we have superior weapony to deploy against them. 

The wife usually handles such operations as I am a bit turned by the sight of body parts and guts. For her, the Dorcy 1xAAA and facial tissue is sufficient to curtail the agressors. (Spiders) For aerial assults we have a mass switch which brings up the 4 daylight balanced 26 watt flourescent lights and a wide head fly swatter. 

If I have a late night deployment, I grab the Fenix L1P but I'm usually calling for back-up.   :duck:


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## cyberhobo (Dec 12, 2005)

V-1 said:


> I would grab the phone and dial 911.
> 
> 
> Good first move no doubt....but what would you do while you wait for the police to arrive?


 
I would follow the intruders instructions and pray the 911 dispatcher knew their job.


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## C4LED (Dec 12, 2005)

RA40 said:


> Our intruders are pretty stealthy and we have evening night patrols to secure the perimeter and immediate area. That said, they still infiltrate and take up observation positions to check our progress almost daily. We are greatly outnumbered but fortunately they are not as agressive as we have superior weapony to deploy against them.
> 
> The wife usually handles such operations as I am a bit turned by the sight of body parts and guts. For her, the Dorcy 1xAAA and facial tissue is sufficient to curtail the agressors. (Spiders) For aerial assults we have a mass switch which brings up the 4 daylight balanced 26 watt flourescent lights and a wide head fly swatter.
> 
> If I have a late night deployment, I grab the Fenix L1P but I'm usually calling for back-up.   :duck:



I think you've got it covered! :thumbsup: :laughing:


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## Ras_Thavas (Dec 12, 2005)

The "you are more likely to be shot with your own gun" is a myth. Just like police used to tell rape victims to just submit, at least you will come away with your life nonsense. There are cases on both sides where guns are taken away. Just last week I read a report where an armed robber tried to get money from 3 male victims. One victim took the gun from the robber. What you have to realize, that if you act timid and weak, and the bad guy can sense that he will likely succeed with his attack, be that trying to disarm you or going toe to toe with you in a gunfight, he will probably go for it.

Get a copy of John Lott's book More Guns, Less Crime. He had statistical evidence in there that dispells some of these myths.


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## naloxone (Dec 14, 2005)

I grab an ITI M3 and my cell phone.


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## UVvis (Dec 14, 2005)

cyberhobo said:


> I would follow the intruders instructions and pray the 911 dispatcher knew their job.



You are kidding right? You do know that the police do not have to show up, right?


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## CQB (Dec 15, 2005)

Arkayne said:


> Greeny, guess what? I was browsing the 2006 Surefire catalog and found exactly what you are looking for!
> 
> It's the SureFire WeaponLight X200-SSES (Shotgun Sound Emulator Speaker) I think it comes with 2GB so you can also load up your .mp3's
> 
> ...


 *LOL* Nice kit there Arkayne! Sounds of a shotgun or Eminem, your choice!


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## CQB (Dec 15, 2005)

Great thread! 

It's great to see that many people realize there's many variables involved when dealing with a potential intruder in your home. 

"What *LIGHT* do you grab when you sense an intruder in your house?"

Short Answer: Mag951. For me, it's the most lumens I have in possession and it's also a great impact weapon.

Long Answer: As every home setup is different here's what can happen next...

- as soon as I awaken from a noise(?) that is out of the ordinary, I quickly slip on my bullet proof vest which is always ready near my bed. This was advice given to me from several members (LEOs) who I trust. It just makes sense. We're in Canada so would-be victims cant use sidearms for home protection BUT the bad guys can! Sheesh! 

- Then I grab the Mag951, an OC Spray, and tactical folder placed in pocket.

- quickly move to nursery (next room) and confirm wife & baby are ok.

- wake wife up & check the cell or landline is working in the nursery.

- Depending on the level of noise I hear at this point, I may call 911 now. 

- But if there is no noise I continue...

- Wife gets the Mag74 - it's smaller (2D) but still bright as hell! she also already has a knife (from my limited collection) as well as an OC spray. Now that i thknk about it, I *SHOULD* get her a vest too. One of the many things on my list of things to do... 

- Baby is placed in the crib, wife is ready with the phone and other kit.

- I now have to look for my dog. If there was any noise, she would be all over that. My Pit-Cross is a very friendly dog but is also protective of the family. And she is also PART of the family, hence my concern for her.

- Mag951 in one hand, OC spray in the other, tactical folder in the pocket, vest on... I slowly clear the house. Any obvious signs (sounds, signs of forced entry, etc) I yell for the wife to call 911.

- Hopefully the bad guy(s) are gone at thsi point. 

- if I had awoken to the noise of my dog barking and snarling and someone yelling in pain... or worse yet, the sounds of my dog yelping... the vest goes on, grab the flashlight and Spray, Wife calls 911, and I make my way the soon-to-be-dead intruder.

- there's no question. My dog is my kid. She has protected myself and my family already in the past. My wife will protect our baby upstairs and daddy (me) will deal with the mess downstairs.

It's so difficult to imagine what any of us would do. Some days I might just stay upstairs and wait for the cops. Other days I would go and deal with the intruder(s). It just depends on so many things.

If my dog was still with us upstairs (she sleeps with the wife and baby) then I too woudl stay upstairs for sure and wait for the cops. That is if I still heard noises from downstairs... the family sticks together upstairs and we wait for the RCMP.

It just gets complicated when you think a family member is already downstairs dealing with the BGs... you dont have time to think, only react.

I'm an instructer in self defence/CQB. I train several LEOs and security personnel. I've dealt with drunks in bars and thieves in malls where I work. I am aware of how bad things can get when dealing with the criminal element, especially if they've managed to get INSIDE your home. 

Two assumptions you have to make regarding attackers (on the street, in your home/car, etc)... 

1. They are armed. 
2. They are not alone. 

These two assumptions always lead me to err on the side of caution. I will not engage unless I have to. No room for ego.

A father and husband, trained with the warrior's mind-set, who is committed to protect his family (dog included) against any and all foes, against all odds... enemy beware.


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## The Porcupine (Dec 15, 2005)

I live in a rather quiet littletown in Denmark and home invasions are VERY rare here! In case of "a sound" downstairs, I grab whatever light is on the nightstand; usually my SF A2 og L5. Tried it a couple of times and it was just the cat trying to tell me she was less than pleased with the menu!:laughing: 
Seriously, I have had one case of "property-invasion" when we just bought the house back in april, though.
It was around 1 AM, I was getting ready for bed, when the driveway lights switched on. Couldn't see anything from the window, so I got my Glock 34 from the gunsafe, my SF6P and went downstairs without turning the lights on. I opened the back door (facing the garage) and chambered a round in the Glock.
What followed, still makes me laugh (sick humor, I know!). Someone in the garage recognized the sound, sprinted out in the gravel, almost fell, jumped the hedge separating my property from my nieghbours and ran through their back yard!
I didn't find it especially funny just when it happened and I didn't get to bed until an hour or so later. Too damn worked up!
Never happened again! I assume who ever it was (never saw the person), told his buddies that the people in that house are friggin insane!  

Bo


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Dec 15, 2005)

Denmark gets a big Thumbs UP from this Texan!!! I believe you are rare among European/Scandinavian countries in the respect of the citizen to have a gun! I may be proven quite wrong!!!

Something pretty bright sits on the nitestand. An 870 is on the other side of the bedroom. I will have to be awake enough to make a deliberate choice to employ it.

The invader(s) will have to wade through several dogs!! None of which will bite, but they will raise hell!


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## Ras_Thavas (Dec 21, 2005)

The majority of home invasion robberies in my neck of the woods over the last few years have been drug related. The bad guys know or believe the residents deal drugs and are looking to rip them off.

For those of you that grab firearms, grab a gun that can be easily replaced. I say this because in the unfortunate event that you have to shoot a bad guy, that gun is going to be held for evidence. It will not be cleaned, but sent to a lab where it will be tested and examined. You may not see it for several months, and during that time it still won't be cleaned, and may be kept in conditions that you would never keep a gun in.


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## Patrik (Dec 21, 2005)

I would grab my M3 CB using the 225 Lumen lamp. :touche:


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## Darkaway (Dec 21, 2005)

NewBie said:


> Just the act of loudly racking a shotgun, in the house, or on the property, is enough to put a little fear into folks that have designs on my trappings.



Maybe, but it also alerts the intruder to exactly where you are, and what you are armed with. Trust me, you want the element of surprise on YOUR side.


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## Blades (Dec 21, 2005)

My 1,000,000 Light I bought at Target for $15.00. 



Blades


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## cratz2 (Dec 21, 2005)

Right now, it would be a Vital Gear body with a TW0K-modified BOG module.

Mostly so I can clearly see where I should be pointing my CZ PCR.


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## Aaron1100us (Dec 21, 2005)

My G2 and my Glock 22 (.40 caliber).


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## GrnXnham (Dec 21, 2005)

Princeton Tec Surge

Shine the light in his eyes. When he raises his hands to shield his eyes, kick him in the "nads."

Yeah, that will work.


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## Narpho (Dec 21, 2005)

Learjet said:


> Infrared illuminated night vision scope. Silence of the lambs style.
> 
> I ain't sayin what I'd do next, but the situation should be sewn up in no time. :devil:



Now that I like!


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## CM (Dec 21, 2005)

Ras_Thavas said:


> ...For those of you that grab firearms, grab a gun that can be easily replaced. I say this because in the unfortunate event that you have to shoot a bad guy, that gun is going to be held for evidence...



Last thing I'm going to be thinking about when I grab something. Let see, 

"Hmmm, I need to decide whether this gun or that gun is easier to replace. Hmmm, tough decision... Can't make up my mind. I'll grab that one...no... this one, yeah this one's expendible...No!!!! I'll use THAT one...NO, this one......." 
In the meantime, time is passing you by, tick tick tick...

Grab what you train with and if you train with a $3000 weapon, the replacement cost is nothing compared to your (and your loved one's) well being.


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## Sburr23 (Dec 22, 2005)

The police may very well take all of your firearms as evidence if you are involved in a self-defense shooting. 


Steve


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## pr5owner (Dec 22, 2005)

grab a flashlight? F' that ill grab a glock or at the very minimum an extendable batton


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## beezaur (Dec 22, 2005)

I haven't counted the number of times I have gotten out of bed to investigate something. I still await my first encounter with a bad guy. Granted the premise of this thread is that you sense an intruder, but you still have to be careful.

In the few times I have suspected an intruder, I had my gun, a Baretta 92 with an old-style 6-V light on it. I think it is extremely important to be able to see what you are putting holes in, but maybe that's just me. I'm kind of persnickity about fussy little things like killing your drunk neighbor accidentally, things like that.

Now, there are people whom I would shoot on sight (or at least there used to be). But I would want to see what I am doing there too.

In all cases of investigating a possible intruder, I want a light.

Scott

PS: If anyone wants to buy or trade my old gun light, PM me. The tape switch has been cut off. The slide switch works, that's what I used. No mounting rail required. Drop holster too -- Blackhawk or Eagle, don't remember which.


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## cdf (Dec 23, 2005)

A SureFire M3 , and an Emerson CQCT tomahawk . I would be concerned about using firearms -thin walls and neighbors with a baby . At distances under 21' edges often trump firearms . The Hawk is nice , even if I cant unsheath it , It still makes a good impact weapon . I'll wager that with a good blow the spike would reinforce/pop thru the Kydex .

Chris


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## TonkinWarrior (Dec 23, 2005)

Solutions to your Apartment-Wall-Overpenetration problem:

1. Load a handgun (one with a medium-length, say 4 inch barrel, to generate sufficient velocity and minimize muzzle flash) with Glaser Safety Slugs. They're not ideal stoppers against 5 leather-clad Hells Angels on PCP, but they have drastically reduced energy after going through the typical apt. wall. I've tested them. They make nasty wounds at close range. Trust me.

2. Alternately, load a short-barrelled (18-20 inches) "open" choked shotgun with #12 birdshot. It's another low-penetration load like the Glasers. 

3. Get firearms training. And... practice.

4. If a squeamish spouse/S.O. is part of the Realistic Solution problem, then (a) get her some education and training, or (b) ditch her. Been There, Done That. Not worth the long term headaches, compromised security... and risks.

Discussion:

1. The handgun strategy allows the simultaneous use of a flashlight more easily than a shotgun... unless your light is mounted ON the shotgun.

2. Run through practice scenarios where you'd confront an intruder -- but limit any shots aimed at a target along a "common" wall backdrop. Think tactically (What would I do if...?"). Think "lanes of fire."

3. Either firearm is far preferable to confronting an intruder at close range who is highly likely to be on (a) maximum adrenaline, and (b) drugs... with your tomahawk or some knife or impact weapon. Such Hollywood approaches rarely work in The Real World -- which is why all cops train (the "Tueller Drill") to immediately center-mass shoot any threatening perp armed with a knife/etc. within 21 ft. -- much to the apparent dismay of some politicians who want to arm cops with non-lethal Tasers... and arm civilians with cell-phones, Sensitivity-Training certificates, peace medallions, and other symbols of urban-pacifist naivete.

4. Priorities: Problem Number One is protecting YOUR family. Problem Number Two is the safety of neighbors. If an intruder injures you, or kills you, your neighbors MIGHT visit you in the hospital... or attend your funeral. They WON"T take care of your family after you're gone.

Ignore any self-defense/firearms myths perpetrated by the news media, Hollywood/TV, academics, and other fem-conditioned/PC Sheeple like Katie Couric -- all who apparently think it's possible (or fashionable) to "shoot to wound." What these folks know about flashlights, guns, crime, and self-protection wouldn't fill an empty Starbucks latte cup.

Knowledge + Training beats misinformation-based Bliss. I hope all this enlightens, but I make no apologies for tender toes stepped on.

-------------------------------------

"Criminals must be taught to fear their victims."
-- Col. Jeff Cooper, "Principles Of Personal Defense" (<<-- highly recommended for "mindset" correction)

"A gun in the hand beats a cop on the phone."
-- Anonymous crime survivor (former victim)


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## TigerLight Pro (Dec 23, 2005)

InfidelCastro said:


> I assume you're talking about the infamous Officer Dinkheller video. He was gunned down by a Vietnam vet with a .30 carbine. The guy was 22 years old and not experienced at all. He did in fact shoot, but he handled the situation very poorly. The felon judged him as weak and he paid for it with his life.[/QUOT
> 
> It was disturbing


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## TigerLight Pro (Dec 23, 2005)

Templar223 said:


> With all due respect to Mr. Teig:
> 
> Can you cite me some specific examples of people getting shot with their own gun in a lethal force encounter after failing to pull the trigger on a bad guy?
> 
> ...



Yes I can name one for sure. An officer at my PD approached a motivated subject and took him at gun point the subject wet straight to him, took his gun, which he was pointing. The suspect fired the gun at the officer and his partner. The partner was so close he trapped the bad guys arm, avoiding being shot. 

case 2 a suspect entered the home of a man on the south side of the city. The intruder had a gun and pointed at the home owner. The home owner took the gun from him and by the time we arrived the home owner was sitting on the suspects chest with the gun to his head.

Case three, a police officer from a place I can't recall. This was an article in a police magazine. Had three or four burglary suspects at gun point. The felony suspects continued to disobey his directions over a until finaly one was able to overtake him, and disarmed him. He was shot to death with his own gun. He never fired a shot in his own defense.

this is just a few off the top of my head.

I am quite sure you are a great trainer and your trainees would not make these mistakes. 

Merry Christmas


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## beezaur (Dec 23, 2005)

TonkinWarrior said:


> Solutions to your Apartment-Wall-Overpenetration problem:
> 
> 1. Load a handgun (one with a medium-length, say 4 inch barrel, to generate sufficient velocity and minimize muzzle flash) with Glaser Safety Slugs. They're not ideal stoppers against 5 leather-clad Hells Angels on PCP, but they have drastically reduced energy after going through the typical apt. wall. I've tested them. They make nasty wounds at close range. Trust me.



In a former life I worked in specialty ammunition R&D. We had a 45 ACP round that would do 2200+ fps from a 5" barrel. It would penetrate 2 level III vests, or 1 with enough energy left over to blow a gallon water jug to pieces. Autopsy results on "recipients" were unbelievable. A user once called in after an accidental discharge in his home. The bullet went through one layer of sheetrock of an interior wall and stopped in the other layer, leaving a dimple in his son's bedroom. The bullet hit no wires, insulation, or other obstacles.

The round is no longer available for a variety of reasons. It is funny what you can do if you think out of the box a little.

I never did extensive testing with Glaser, but I was not too impressed with what I saw. A lot of them failed to open after penetrating clothing, basically turned into FMJs. We got spotty results through sheetrock. This was 10 years ago. I have no idea what kind of quality they are now, but I could not recommend their product back then. I always carried Cor-Bon 115-gr JHPs in my 9mm, because that load was best at doing the task I asked of it. There is no free lunch in terminal ballistics.

Scott


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## voodoogreg (Dec 23, 2005)

I have a E2d next to the bed and a quick key lock box mounted to the frame rail under my bed containing a firearm. I am not home a lot, so i imagine that a semi smart thief would case enough to know that. If this scenario ever played out, I would hope I would remember lethal force lesson's learned from yr's back being in the family bond/collection/investigation biz, and law's of my state, both in stone and president's of past ruling's (in my State despite
grandfathering in, a black talon used in several cases of a "me(and family) or him/them," case has resulted in at least civil charges and criminal charges. (I don't like it, i am sure many don't, But life is full of these) 

And therefore imo my roll is to identify assess, and take appropriate action with sound judgement to protect my daughter and fiancee above my own interests of well being. (and i hope and pray that it would be no more then hitting a perp with bright incan and him sprinting out the door with little more then a DVD player or guitar)

Anyhoo,, my house is pretty small and an E2d i am sure is bright enough blasting out of a dark hallway to freak a thief that's freakable  VDG


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## TigerLight Pro (Dec 23, 2005)

Ras_Thavas said:


> The "you are more likely to be shot with your own gun" is a myth. Just like police used to tell rape victims to just submit, at least you will come away with your life nonsense. There are cases on both sides where guns are taken away. Just last week I read a report where an armed robber tried to get money from 3 male victims. One victim took the gun from the robber. What you have to realize, that if you act timid and weak, and the bad guy can sense that he will likely succeed with his attack, be that trying to disarm you or going toe to toe with you in a gunfight, he will probably go for it.
> 
> Get a copy of John Lott's book More Guns, Less Crime. He had statistical evidence in there that dispells some of these myths.



My point exactly


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## beezaur (Dec 23, 2005)

voodoogreg said:


> and i hope and pray that it would be no more then hitting a perp with bright incan and him sprinting out the door with little more then a DVD player or guitar) . . .



A good point. We as civilians do not have to take control of anyone or anything. All we need to do is protect our safety and run the burglar out. Making them face consequences is secondary. Bad things happen when you make people desperate.

Scott


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## greenlight (Dec 23, 2005)

I love it!! 




The Porcupine said:


> I live in a rather quiet littletown in Denmark and home invasions are VERY rare here! In case of "a sound" downstairs, I grab whatever light is on the nightstand; usually my SF A2 og L5. Tried it a couple of times and it was just the cat trying to tell me she was less than pleased with the menu!:laughing:
> Seriously, I have had one case of "property-invasion" when we just bought the house back in april, though.
> It was around 1 AM, I was getting ready for bed, when the driveway lights switched on. Couldn't see anything from the window, so I got my Glock 34 from the gunsafe, my SF6P and went downstairs without turning the lights on. I opened the back door (facing the garage) and chambered a round in the Glock.
> What followed, still makes me laugh (sick humor, I know!). Someone in the garage recognized the sound, sprinted out in the gravel, almost fell, jumped the hedge separating my property from my nieghbours and ran through their back yard!
> ...


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## DigMe (Dec 24, 2005)

I've only had one incident to my memory when I really thought someone was in the house. At that time the kitchen light was still on and I just grabbed my S&W .40. Turns out some pots and pans just fell over for no reason. These days a I keep a Surefire G2 on the bedside table and a Springfield XD-9 in the drawer. I also happen to have a Remington 870 Express loaded with 00 buck under the bed...hey ya gotta store it somewhere and I have no kids to worry about so why not somewhere close and loaded!

If I absolutely knew there was someone in the house I'd probably just hang out in the bedroom with the 12 gauge. 

brad cook


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## cdf (Dec 24, 2005)

We are pretty well screwed here in Canada when it comes to handy firearms , legal storage requirements make handguns in the hands of lawabiding citizens virtually inaccessable ( Locked container , triggerlocks , ammo seperate- need I say more ) . Even long guns are to be seperate from ammo and secured . I guess you could try to convince a judge that you were cleaning your target pistol at 0400hrs . That pretty well restricts us to baseball bats , hammers etc . 10% O.C. is sold as a bear repellent , legal to own , illeagal to use on a human . The best option is light him up and try to prejudice his cranial function . The only tiny point of light is that mega buck civil actions are somewhat rarer . ( with our tax structure , there isn't much left-even for criminals .

Chris


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## TonkinWarrior (Dec 24, 2005)

cdf said:


> We are pretty well screwed here in Canada when it comes to handy firearms , legal storage requirements make handguns in the hands of lawabiding citizens virtually inaccessable ( Locked container , triggerlocks , ammo seperate- need I say more ) . Even long guns are to be seperate from ammo and secured . I guess you could try to convince a judge that you were cleaning your target pistol at 0400hrs . That pretty well restricts us to baseball bats , hammers etc . 10% O.C. is sold as a bear repellent , legal to own , illeagal to use on a human . The best option is light him up and try to prejudice his cranial function . The only tiny point of light is that mega buck civil actions are somewhat rarer . ( with our tax structure , there isn't much left-even for criminals .
> 
> Chris



Yours is a sad story, CDF... and one that, regrettably, is prevalent in most of the world -- where myopic pacifism and acceptance of government authority rules the day. It also relegates one's use of modern illumination tools to the limited role of a high-tech play-toy -- an Orwellian state where using ANY weapon for self-defense is uncivilized -- and worse -- unfashionable.

You're welcome to join us down here in the U.S.. Just make sure you move to a "red" state -- where Individual Rights and Liberty still trump politically correct mini-tyrants' trampling upon them for the, umm, "common good" of the peasants.


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## Nitroz (Dec 24, 2005)

CM said:


> This light, with the attached accessory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


     WOW! That's beautiful!


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## ScottyJ (Dec 25, 2005)

Surefire M4 mounted to an AR with Hornady TAP. IF that doesn't work, I have serious problems.


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## Sleestak (Dec 26, 2005)

The one connected to my gun.


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## SuperNinja (Dec 26, 2005)

JimH said:


> Mag 6C with a WA1111 bulb, 5500 mAh NiMH batts, SMO reflector, mineral glass lens. 700+ lumens out the front end for well over an hour and good whacking power


This is the correct smilie.


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## missionaryman (Dec 27, 2005)

Well in this neck of the woods most of the break ins are by desperate junkies. I have been robbed by junkies before while I was a pizza boy. You never want to come into physical contact with them because of flailing syringes - you need distance.

Gun laws are strict here and very few people carry - mostly convicted criminals - really. So I resort to the brightest light I have, my MAG951 and I pray. You need to pray because criminals have more rights than defending fathers do. If I injure I get sued, if I kill I go to jail, if I threaten I get sued & go to jail, if I carry a weapon and don't even look like I'm going to use it I still get sued and convicted.

I go outside to where the noise is and lock myself out, leaving the keys inside so only my wife can let me in. If things go bad she has plenty of time to call the police and I'll keep them out of my home with my life if I have to.


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## woodfluter (Dec 28, 2005)

Well, very enlightening discussion, mostly pretty far from lights.

I have to say that a full-bore break-down-the-door armed entry is also pretty far from my understanding of "sense an intruder". Doubtful that you'd really have any time to respond to that unless you had an unlocked, loaded weapon very near at hand. With that comes other hazards, primarily to any roaming children.

But to put things in perspective, the chances of your getting killed or injured in the scenarios you folks have been spinning is not zero, but probably on the order of getting struck by lightning (obligatory light content). So I wonder if you are giving as much attention to such like hazards?

Apart from that, much of the advice offered is of little use to my situation. We live in a house that has no locking interior doors. At present, only one inside door can actually be closed, and that is to the bathroom. Not sure I'd want to make my way there in the dark for a standoff. We have dogs. They would be yowling bloody murder before anyone even got to the door or window. If someone did make it in, they would engage directly and I absolutely would not abandon them to consequences...so I would have to face the intruder while my wife called 911. No real alternative.

I have a bunch of flashlights. If I were an *armed* intruder, I believe that I would shoot instinctively at any bright light flashed in my direction. Thus, the absolute last thing I would even think of grabbing is a flashlight. I know the house and have excellent night vision. They probably don't. I would be barefoot, they would be clumping around and stumbling over things. Why on earth would I throw away my principal advantages?

I do own firearms and, unlike most thuggy break-in artists, actually know how to use them with accuracy - starting from childhood in Utah. Still, I doubt I would have time to pull that off, given the house layout and dogs and all. Being realistic about it, I'm not going to keep loaded weapons in my bedroom. Most likely a very sharp, long, wide axe which does reside by my bed - at most.

But much of the shoot-first, ask-questions-later stuff I've been hearing is kinda troubling. I understand those priorities, and the experiences behind them. However, I think about the break-ins that actually have occurred to me and friends here in Atlanta, crime capital of the south. Two neighbor kids in my case. Did a year's time for burglary. Would I be happier if I had caught them in the house and killed them? Or the homeless dude that broke into the home of our symphony musician friends, who took nothing but left a pile of cigarette butts as he waited for warmer weather. Better off dead? I could go on, but you get the idea. Just something to ponder.

In my personal case, as a personal decision, I am willing to take some considerable risk to avoid a disproportionate response. Your mileage, and consciences, may vary.

- Bill


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## yaesumofo (Dec 28, 2005)

Baseball bat and a surefire 9P with a P91 globe. I wouldn't want to be if front of either.

Yaesumofo


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## hquan (Dec 28, 2005)

Last year, our dog alerted my wife that someone was loitering in our backyard at 9-10pm at night. Unfortunately, I was at work - so I had her call the cops. It took them 15 minutes to get there - but they got there and took the guy home. He didn't do anything - but I'm sure that he was up to no good...

I've personally decided to go the tigerlight route and to get trained in self-defense. Some would say that that's not enough...


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## Sburr23 (Dec 28, 2005)

Well, I'm new here, so let me start by telling you a little bit about myself. I have had the opportunity to get self defense firearms training from some of the best instructors in the country (I'm in the US.) I have over 300 hours of training and countless hours on the range. I can tell you that most people don't understand how difficult it is to use a firearm for self defense. Most people don't understand the laws pertaining to the use of force for self defense. This shoot first ask questions later idea, is of course a bad one. The idea that I've been shooting all of my life, I know what I'm doing with a gun, is not true either. Those of us that train with firearms have a little saying about people without training, "They don't know what they don't know." By all means people, please get some training, if you want to use a firearm for self defense. You also have to understand the basics of self defense law. This means talk to a lawyer. 

With all of that being said, what is the role of a flashlight in self defense? It has a few roles

First, it is for illuminating the area around you, to look for any possible threats. Second, its for identifying any possible threats. Is it a threat to me or not. Third it is a force option. Shine the light in the threats eyes and keep it there. Using light in this way allows you to prevent the threat from being able to see you and what you are doing, while allowing you to clearly see what the threat is doing.

If you cannot clearly see what is going on, then how can you respond appropriately? A bright flashlight is one of the most important self defense tools.


Steve


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## hquan (Dec 28, 2005)

Some of the real pluses of reality based martial arts training is that you always have your skills with you and no one can take your skills away from you and use them against you. For example, if you're at a concert and a drunk starts groping your wife... chances are 1) you won't have a gun on you and 2) if you did, the guy probably has friends - one of whom may be behind you...

(I'm not in LE and have NO real experience here - just guessing) I would also imagine that once you pull a gun on the threat, the level of force that they are willing to use against you would rise tremendously... but this is just a guess...

Anyways, the marketing indoctrination...err..introduction on the tigerlight website and their testimonials were enough to convince me of the effectiveness of that light. Plus, the praise from you all about the gen 4 lamp assembly convinced me to get one (delivery in Feb. - I hope).


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## 5.0Trunk (Dec 28, 2005)

I grab my FM 700L. It is my brightest light right now.


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## Bryan (Dec 28, 2005)

pr5owner said:


> grab a flashlight? F' that ill grab a glock or at the very minimum an extendable batton


 
How about a Glock AND a flashlight? :thinking:


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## Cavannus (Dec 28, 2005)

I would take my Mag 3D if an intruder was at home:
- it's always withing reach;
- I wouldn't be too much hurted if the intruder took it from my hands!!

For my urban explorations, I have always my Mag with the belt.


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## wwglen (Dec 28, 2005)

.357 Mag and either my xm-3 clone/Brinkman LX/Maxfire with 3watt dropin.

Pistol comes first then light.

If the police take allo the guns in my house they still don't have all my guns.

wwglen


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## rkonieska (Jan 13, 2006)

Smith and Wesson 4506 switched over to .45 super with a Sure fire tactical
light mounted on it. They let us purchase the Smiths when we went to Glock 21's and they threw in the tac lights that went with em. Now if I could just stuff an 1185 in it.


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## FirstDsent (Jan 13, 2006)

A good tactical light should disorient the suspect only as long as it takes to bleed to death


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## cbxer55 (Jan 14, 2006)

Ever since I got my U2 2 weeks or so ago, my M2 has become the bedside light. That and the Kimber .45 that hides where only my wife and I can find it. The mutt will wake us up if an intruder is present. Most times it is just settling soumds or the ever present wind.


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## GWC3 (Jan 14, 2006)

browning hipower and a G2 with P61 bulb on my side of the bed - wife has a maxfire. With my adult son's room down the hallway and him working some nights I have to judge whats a wierd sound. And we have an alarm as well. He knows I have gun in my room and knows to answer if I question whos there. If he doesnt he knows I go condition red instantly (thats not triggy happy- finger still off the trigger actually) just saftey off and in target acquisition mode. If I acquire an intruder who I can postively identify shouldnt be there it'll be about a 1 second decision based on their reaction to my commands.I did have to search the hosue many years ago when a bookshelf let go in the basement. Didnt have a light then, but had the gun as I had to secure the kids rooms first. I think those were my first few grey hairs.


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## G-2 (Jan 14, 2006)

SF 200 which rides under the barrel of my Glock 21.:rock:


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## Coop (Jan 14, 2006)

No light at all as it will screw up my nightvision too and my folded steel katana.


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## secamp32 (Jan 14, 2006)

Streamlight TL-3 and S&W M66. 

greenlight
Lately a bunch of people on Long Island that thought they lived in a good neighborhood probably could have used something more than a flashlight. Unfortunately, these days few areas are completely immune from crime.


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## Charles/NM (Jan 15, 2006)

Interesting thread. 
My intruder flashlight of choice is a 3D Mag-Light. Bright and is a good bad guy bashing tool.
A good friend and concealed carry/personal defense instructor told me to grab the Blackhawk 357 mag that's always next to me in bed and wait for the intruder to come to me. He said roaming thru the house to find the intruder is suicide. Assume the intruder will hear you, wait for you and shoot when he sees you. If you do see an intruder shoot 2 in the torso and 1 in the head as fast as possible. And make sure he's dead! If not he will sue you for everything you own. I was also told to hold the Mag-Light with my left hand just behind the light head on my left shoulder and pistol in the right hand. Don't hold the light next to your body, it makes a good target. If you do have the unfortunate experience of having to shoot and kill an intruder get psychological help fast. The friend said that no matter how justified the kill and no matter how much of a warrior you think you are, you will be a mental wreak.
It's unlikely I will ever have a break in due to my rep in this "out in the country" neighborhood. My neighbors said they like having a crazy Gringo in the area. They call me El Vigilante. Now that's a hoot!


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## Samoan (Jan 15, 2006)

Whichever light is closest and either a Sig P229 or a Winchester 1300.

-F


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## Samoan (Jan 15, 2006)

greenlight said:


> I don't use a gun. (I think there is a small beretta in the house). There are a few gun owners who responded. How many actually get a gun when they get up to check on a 'sound'? Are you guys creeping around your darkened houses with loaded guns at night? I'm sure there are some unsafe neighborhoods; I just don't live in one. Most are probably just grabbing a flashlight. Nevertheless, that might be the only weapon handy if surprised. Having the right light in hand would be advantageous.



From other forums I know there are guys that actually strap up when they get up in the middle of the night to investigate a sound, any sound. Two handguns, 8 spare magazines, etc.

In my case it depends on thesound in question. I live by myself, no pets, and the neighborhood is on the way up but currently a little sketchy. If the sound is coming from inside the house and it sounds person-like. Yes, I'm getting up with either my Sig or my Winchester. If it's just a random sound or one of these feral cats again then I either ignore it or get up with my 9p with P91 HOLA.

-F


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## Sakugenken (Jan 15, 2006)

HDS EDC on lowest to find him and a Surefire M6 to flash him and then hit him with. Sorry officer I just hit him with my flashlight. Eight times.


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## Christoph (Jan 15, 2006)

I grab my 6P flashlight holder, .40 cal glock


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## beezaur (Jan 15, 2006)

I just threw myself into indecision by acquiring a SureFire M3 CombatLight -- "combat" as in "crenalated bezel."

Now I have my red A2 with its dim red low beam and substantial incan beam, and also this big Blind-O-Matic with its chomper teeth on the front. Both have their pros and cons.

If an occupant actually encounters an intruder, I think the M3 wins hands down. More light, better grip, and a much better impact weapon. I use the gun/light combination with the old "thumb on the button" method, so no real advantage for the M3 over the A2 there.

The thing that has me wondering which light is better is the part before the confrontation, the investigation phase.

Have you ever gotten up in the middle of the night and poked around the house with an M3? That's a LOTTA LIGHT! There's no creeping down the stairs with that beacon on. I am left with the choice of announcing my presence far ahead of my arrival, or tripping on things because I just blew my night vision during inspection of the previous space. I'm either blind or doing the "aircraft landing light" impersonation.

That is what I like about the A2. I can poke around and still have dark-adapted vision for seeing into dim spaces, outside the windows, etc. I push harder and I get the bright incan. However, if I get to the point of pushing for the incan, it would be better to have the M3.

Now there is a temptation to use the M3 with a smaller light, maybe a red SureFire L1.

I am skeptical of using two lights for the same reason I don't take a long gun with me: I am too clumsy, especially at 3 in the morning.

What do you guys think about the issue of investigating versus confronting?

Scott


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## Safety1st (Jan 15, 2006)

Next to my bed is my Surefire E2D defender....and Monadnock extendable baton...

Outside is my 95lb German Shepherd....:naughty:

After that...i'm very much on my own...:help:

Wouldn't want to wake MrsS1....she does like her sleep you see...


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## webley445 (Jan 15, 2006)

One of the reasons I have a dog in the house. Have grown up with them and have always had one. They are great burglar alarms. Lets you know if someone is inside or out, day or night. And if they do try to get in thats one more hurdle they have to overcome before making it in. By the time they get past him I will be at the ready.

I have specific lights for such instances in the bedroom, nice and bright and easily used.... right next to my S&W. 

Having a dog, I am more concerned with my cars being burglarized than someone coming into the house. Of the times my dog has alerted me to actvity outside, I take both items but light it up outside through the front windows. This lets them know someone is watching and probably calling the cops. Rushing out like gang busters would not be my first option.


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## Safety1st (Jan 15, 2006)

This is my discouragement for unwanted visitors...







:wow:

He's called 'Max' incidentally.....


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## zehnmm (Jan 16, 2006)

Newbie, previously a lurker, here for my first post. 

It appears that I am headed for desparate need for therapy and counseling, in that I have the illness often referred to on these forums.

We have a labrador retriever in the house who can detect just about anything. I keep a Kimber Stainless Target II in 10mm in the nightstand. This pistol is loaded to the lower end of 41mag. What has been missing is a good flashlight. I have, until now, kept ye-olde Mini-Mag AA around for light; but definitely does not fill the bill.

I recently got a Surefire E2E, which is really like. Have ordered KL1 head and some batteries for camping, hiking, hunting, etc. 

Now that I am stricken, and rest assured I blame all of you for this, I will probably nurture my addiction by buying countless other flashlights, add-ons for SF, mods, etc. 

Now I must go and schedule an appointment.......


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## quokked (Jan 16, 2006)

Welcome to CPF  why don't u stay a while... 

If you're looking for E2e Mods you can have a poke round the BST forums and also sites like www.lighthound.com


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## blake711 (Mar 9, 2006)

I grab my Pentagon X3 which is attached to my AR15


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## RAF_Groundcrew (Mar 9, 2006)

When working in pairs, if your SMG doesn't have a weaponlight fitted, a burst from your partner's sub can be used to illuminate the area with muzzle flash, so you can use single shot precision to remove the problem. Gets expensive on ammo eventually though.


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## OutdoorIdiot (Mar 9, 2006)

> What light do you grab when you sense an intruder in your house?


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## dizzy (Mar 9, 2006)

That is the funniest thing I have ever seen on CPF!!! Way to go OutdoorIdiot!!


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## NickelPlate (Mar 9, 2006)

Peli M6 3W LED in left hand, aluminum ball bat or knife in the right hand.


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## bascodog (Mar 9, 2006)

Since I'm a LEO SWAT I would have to say I would grab the one that's mounted to my MP5.


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## Brighteyez (Mar 9, 2006)

Most of the cops that I know would get their families out of the house first and then call for backup. Even if they're part of a SWAT unit.



bascodog said:


> Since I'm a LEO SWAT I would have to say I would grab the one that's mounted to my MP5.


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## dca2 (Mar 9, 2006)

Until I save up for a SF 623FA, none. Too hard to charge my Moss. 500 for the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th.... when holding a light.


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## rotncore (Mar 9, 2006)

I'd crank the amplifier in my room connected to the 12" speakers, cue up Meshuggah (brutal metal), turn on a survival strobe in the middle of the room, and grab a knife, blade down and out, and wait just inside the door [opens inwards] hugging the cement wall. And wait, with cell with earpiece dialing 911.


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## bascodog (Mar 9, 2006)

Brighteyez, my Police K-9 and I will remain in the bedroom (door closed/locked)after placing a call via my cell phone to the local police. I will remain on the phone with their dispatcher until their units arrive at my residence. Second of all I don't have any children to get out of the house. I'm not going bumbling through my house trying to attempt some half*ss building search or escape. I'll place the call take the best cover I can and wait with my MP5 for the cavalry to arrive. Please don't tell me how to do my job. I've been K-9 and SWAT for numerous years now. Your friends who are cops that attempt to leave their residence while an intruder or possibly multiple intruders are within risk getting their family killed or taken hostage.


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## Brighteyez (Mar 9, 2006)

My apologies, I guess "get them out of the house" is a bad choice of words, and "getting them to safety" would be better. And there would be situations where "sheltering in place" may be appropriate. But then a decision has to be made for each situation, and there's no general rule of thumb regardless of your vast years of SWAT or any other kind of experience. Of course with all your canine and SWAT experience you'd know much more than some retired old coot. Besides, many departments don't let their officers take automatic weapons home, and oddly enough, some SWAT officers don't feel a need for nor want an automatic weapon in the homes. 



bascodog said:


> Brighteyez, my Police K-9 and I will remain in the bedroom (door closed/locked)after placing a call via my cell phone to the local police. I will remain on the phone with their dispatcher until their units arrive at my residence. Second of all I don't have any children to get out of the house. I'm not going bumbling through my house trying to attempt some half*ss building search or escape. I'll place the call take the best cover I can and wait with my MP5 for the cavalry to arrive. Please don't tell me how to do my job. I've been K-9 and SWAT for numerous years now. Your friends who are cops that attempt to leave their residence while an intruder or possibly multiple intruders are within risk getting their family killed and taken hostage.


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## bascodog (Mar 9, 2006)

The automatic weapons go home with use because it takes to much time to first go to the PD and retrive them in the event we have an active shooter type situation. I have a heavy Duty gun vault that it gets locked in when it is at home. Of course each situation is different when it comes to intruders in a home. When something awakens me from a dead sleep I actually have found the easiest thing to grab is the lightest gun I have, an airweight .38. If the I can then I will move up to a more offensive weapon system.


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## spyderknut (Mar 9, 2006)

cy said:


> Surefire M6/M6R and my PPK


 
Sig 226 and Mag 3D with 3W Diamond drop-in. More gun, more club, less light. I hope we never have to use any of these.


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## Perel (Mar 9, 2006)

RAF_Groundcrew said:


> When working in pairs, if your SMG doesn't have a weaponlight fitted, a burst from your partner's sub can be used to illuminate the area with muzzle flash, so you can use single shot precision to remove the problem. Gets expensive on ammo eventually though.


This works particularly well in shopping malls.. Remember to duct-tape an extra trauma plate to your back!


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## bearhunter (Mar 9, 2006)

greenlight said:


> A light big enough to use as a club would be good. Pointed ends? Or do you just grab any light and a baseball bat?
> 
> Just curious. I have never had to fend off an intruder, but it could happen.
> 
> I thought a SLPPCCC might be good, big, heavy, bright, cheap.


 
MY 9Z and my Colt 45. works for me:devil:


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## tvodrd (Mar 9, 2006)

Edit: should have quoted the post I was replying to on a previous page! 

Larry


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## colubrid (Mar 10, 2006)

*But much of the shoot-first, ask-questions-later stuff I've been hearing is kinda troubling. I understand those priorities, and the experiences behind them. However, I think about the break-ins that actually have occurred to me and friends here in Atlanta, crime capital of the south. Two neighbor kids in my case. Did a year's time for burglary. Would I be happier if I had caught them in the house and killed them? Or the homeless dude that broke into the home of our symphony musician friends, who took nothing but left a pile of cigarette butts as he waited for warmer weather. Better off dead? I could go on, but you get the idea. Just something to ponder.*


I just thought the above was worth repeating. How true.

On the other hand you may get someone like my brother-in-law who has a long list of violent break ins. He has spent most of his life in and out of San Quentin and Folson. If he targeted your house you would not have much of a chance. He has told me many stories and even if armed there would be a fight. A gunfight most people even with training would have lost.

* 


*


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## goldenlight (Mar 10, 2006)

....The one mounted on my Glock 19, of course.

Did you think I'd confront an intruder with nothing but a flashlight in my hand?


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## Mini-Moder (Mar 10, 2006)

colubrid said:


> *But much of the shoot-first, ask-questions-later stuff I've been hearing is kinda troubling. I understand those priorities, and the experiences behind them. However, I think about the break-ins that actually have occurred to me and friends here in Atlanta, crime capital of the south. Two neighbor kids in my case. Did a year's time for burglary. Would I be happier if I had caught them in the house and killed them? Or the homeless dude that broke into the home of our symphony musician friends, who took nothing but left a pile of cigarette butts as he waited for warmer weather. Better off dead? I could go on, but you get the idea. Just something to ponder.*
> 
> 
> I just thought the above was worth repeating. How true.
> ...


 Colubrid, I agree with you about the shoot first, ask later thing you are talking about. An it is a little un-easy that many people would reach for guns instead a of a bat. But just wondering, in sense of time, how many of you keep a loaded gun that is easily accessible (like not in box or case) next to your bed. If you do that, then that is even scarier. What if it was just a relative, that needed a place to crash (ok this is extremely unlikely, but possible), and you just got trigger happy and shot them.


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## chevrofreak (Mar 10, 2006)

Mini-Moder said:


> Colubrid, I agree with you about the shoot first, ask later thing you are talking about. An it is a little un-easy that many people would reach for guns instead a of a bat. But just wondering, in sense of time, how many of you keep a loaded gun that is easily accessible (like not in box or case) next to your bed. If you do that, then that is even scarier. What if it was just a relative, that needed a place to crash (ok this is extremely unlikely, but possible), and you just got trigger happy and shot them.


 
You are making some very big assumptions about the intelligence of people who are readily willing to defend themselves, and I'm actually offended by it.

At any given time there are at least 4 different loaded weapons within reach in my bedroom, each of them fills a different role. If I hear something out of place I reach for the AK47 with mounted light and investigate, that doesnt mean I'm going to pop the first thing that moves. What it does mean is that I will have my most effective weapon ready if necessary.

If you go to investigate something with a baseball bat and it turns out to be something far more than you were expecting, you're really going to wish you could instantly upgrade your weaponry. You will never wish you could downgrade your weaponry.

Relatives are not welcome to show up uninvited, especially looking for a place to stay. Even worse, if they decide to enter my home without me letting them in then they should be prepared for whatever consequences there may be.

By default if someone is at the door after say 9pm I will not answer the door unarmed. Home invasions are on the rise, especially by people impersonating police officers. I do not permit friends or family to show up enexpectedly at my home at that late of an hour, so if the doorbell rings at that hour then it is someone I do not know, and I do not know their intentions. They will never know that I am armed unless they do something to warrant the presentation of the weapon.


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## Mini-Moder (Mar 10, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> You are making some very big assumptions about the intelligence of people who are readily willing to defend themselves, and I'm actually offended by it.


 I apologize if I offended you chevrofreak. I do not really have any experience with guns, I dabble a little in paint ball, but other than that, nothing really. So this may not have been my space to step in. However, I was thinking maybe it isn’t that bad. When I walk around my house at night, I carry a knife. Even though I live in a safe neighborhood, it isn’t something that I think I would ever use. But it makes me feel safer. Maybe this is the same thing as people with there guns. Have you ever had to threaten or wound someone with a gun chevrofreak? I have never had to do this with anything, and especially not a gun. Maybe it is just a making yourself feel safer kind of thing. But like I said I don’t have much experience with guns.


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## chevrofreak (Mar 10, 2006)

Being able to defend yourself is one of the most comforting and confidence building things that I know of.

Those that are inexperienced with weapons tend to have feeling such as yours, and unfortunately their lack of experience has led to many restrictions on weapons and self defense in general.

If you cannot feel completely safe within the walls of your home, you cannot feel safe anywhere.

I personally believe it is the duty of every individual to acquire and maintain the means with which to defend their very existence.


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## Nyctophiliac (Mar 10, 2006)

The only time we had an intruder, so far, (Single male,roof entry,ran like a rabbit!) I grabbed three things:

1. My trousers.

2. My UK 4AA incandescent.

3. My blue aluminium softball bat.


Oh... my dog came along for a good bark too (Black and brindle German Shephard/Border Collie cross).

As I said, the intruder ran up the wall to the roof hatch ( Yes, literally! ) and off.

The Police arrived moments later with 2D Mags.One of which didn't work at all, the other was yellow as stale urine!! I lent them my UK and they also ran out onto the roof .

Though they didn't catch him, the officer did like the UK 4AA very much and I told him where to get them.

This was a few years ago, most Police around here seem to carry Scorpions or G2's these days.


Charlie, Delta, Whiskey, Barbecue...


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## TonkinWarrior (Mar 10, 2006)

chevrofreak said:


> Being able to defend yourself is one of the most comforting and confidence building things that I know of.
> 
> Those that are inexperienced with weapons tend to have feeling such as yours, and unfortunately their lack of experience has led to many restrictions on weapons and self defense in general.
> 
> ...


----------------------

+ 10, Chevrofreak! Well said.

Your grounding in practical Street Sense (and rejection of sheeple-statist cultural brainwashing) is applauded. Congratulations for having pre-decided that you are NOT a victim... and for acquiring the tools, the training -- and the mindset -- to assure that.

Surviving a "close encounter" (or two) is a wonderful thing. It's also a life-changing experience... because you can't ever go back to PC Fairy-Tale-Think-Land.


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## Freedom1955 (Mar 10, 2006)

OutdoorIdiot said:


>


 
LMAO!!!


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## Freedom1955 (Mar 10, 2006)

Here you go boys and girls...:rock:


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## dizzy (Mar 10, 2006)

Nice squeeze cocker!!!! Haven't seen one of those in years.


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## zehnmm (Mar 10, 2006)

I keep a TL-3 on the nightstand, plus a SOG Flash II knife and a Kimber Stainless Target II in 10mm. The 10mm is loaded to the lower end of 41 mag ballistics.

My hope and prayer is that nothing will ever happen. But if someone were to break into the house, I most certainly would defend my wife and I. Our first line of defense, would be to be certain that someone had indeed broken in. If that be the case, we would call the sheriff's office. If a BG were to try to break down the door and come for us, they would do so at their own peril. 

While we are fortunate that we have not anything happen, we live out in the country, and occasionally there have been break-ins. 

FYI, I EDC my SOG knife and an E2E with the MN03 60 lumen bulb or Aleph 2x123, Aleph 2-stage switch, with the KL4 head. (I only recently got the KL4 from Lighthound.)

My view on lights is that they are not to be considered the last word on defense, but rather part of a 3-legged stool: light, knife, and gun. The light certainly will help me light up a dark area and even perhaps stun a BG for a second. No guarantee here, but the possibility of that one second could be the difference I need.

Regards.


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## Warp (Mar 10, 2006)

A Surefire G2 w/P61 lamp and a Glock.

If I have my pants on they are on my person, otherwise they are within arm's reach of the bed.

One of these days, when I can afford it, I'll step up to a Remington 870 HD with a Surefire forend.


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## Lightraven (Mar 11, 2006)

I used to respond to these types of calls more often. Most of them were not homicidal maniacs or rapists, but they would often help themselves to whatever wasn't locked up. In a few cases, the family dog would be killed to silence the barking.

One immigrant couple who lived in a poor area came up to me and said that the husband worked nights and the wife was by herself. Strangers would bang on the door, looking for a ride to Los Angeles or whatever. Of course, she was terrified. In truth, the danger was probably low, but who wants to live in fear?

I also talked with a divorcee with a daughter who had homeless guys living in a canyon below her apartment. They would steal anything not nailed down and she was worried about her daughter. I checked some ID's on guys down there, searched some "hootches" and chased a character up the canyon, but couldn't make any arrests.

Once in a while, these jokers will be unlucky enough to wander across a ranch with a shotgun-and-dog equipped rancher. They will be arrested by the rancher and turned over to us.

One of the weirdest "night prowlers" was my law instructor at the academy. He was busted peeping into ladies' windows at night. After I graduated, I was a little surprised to see him back on duty as a field supervisor.


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## magic79 (Mar 11, 2006)

greenlight said:


> How many actually get a gun when they get up to check on a 'sound'? Are you guys creeping around your darkened houses with loaded guns at night?


 
:huh2: An unloaded gun is like tires without air! What's the point?

I grab my SureFire L2 and Glock 23. And you bet it's loaded.


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## Lifter19 (Mar 11, 2006)

My mossy 12 guage with a surefire on it, my wife would grab the glock 22 with an M3 on it.


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