# Night-Ops Helios



## mtbkndad (Feb 9, 2006)

*Night-Ops Helios -- Now Polarion Helios!*

I was just checking my Falcata review thread and noticed Ken Good had answered somebody's question and also posted a pic of the Night-Ops Helios HID prototype. WOW!

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1266737#post1266737

I will email Night-Ops and see if they can get some sort of thread going about the light in this forum. 

Take Care
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Lexus (Feb 9, 2006)

Looks like Ken has a taste for historical/mythical names:
Gladius and Falcata are historical swords and Helios is the god of the sun in Greek mythology.


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## CLHC (Feb 9, 2006)

Yes indeed! I saw that and it sure peaked my interest in it. Cannot wait to see a review here.


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## metalhed (Feb 9, 2006)

According to Night-Ops, their naming scheme for their lights is very specific.

Night-Ops Press Release

Check out the second paragraph regarding the naming of the new 'Xiphos' weapon light.


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## john2551 (Feb 9, 2006)

It is hard to tell from that picture what the size of this light is.


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## CLHC (Feb 10, 2006)

I know there are products out there that share the "Helios" name. I believe there is a flashlight called by that name already. There's also a well made back-pack with said name by Osprey, among others.

Either way, looking forward to seeing this NO Helios HID when it does come on the scene.


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## BVH (Feb 10, 2006)

Ken, I, too, am VERY interested in the Helios! Bring it on quickly, please! Could you give us a target price range?


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## mtbkndad (Feb 10, 2006)

Ken,

I was going to say if I only bought one light this year it would be the Helios, but I just ordered and Elektrolumens ELX-6 27mm so that already does not apply. 
Never the less, I am very interested in the Helios. I can't wait to find out all of the details about this light.
Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## CLHC (Feb 10, 2006)

Okay, I missed that part where Mtbkndad said "*prototype*." I take that to mean it'll be a while before we actually get to be N-O.Helios.HID owners. Hopefully soon enough, because I think the RevaNOS RI-2200 HID becomes available to the general consumer this year Q3/Q4 2006.


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## cmacclel (Feb 10, 2006)

Maybe it's just the picture but thats some funky looking light. To me it does not even resemble a flashlight. Are there any other pictures of the "Helios"?


Mac


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## Ken J. Good (Feb 10, 2006)

It's a working proto...

For some reason I thought a 3400 lumen HID light that can easily be handled 1-handed and put into a small pack was kinda unfunky.

Name, style, specific mechanics, other featurs subject to minor changes.
We may or may not release it under Night-Ops.

We will not have it up and running in approx 6-8 weeks.

Price....More than a mini-mag and probably less than any other HID in this performance category.


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## john2551 (Feb 10, 2006)

Ken,

A 50w HID, with a run-time of 105 minutes, in this compact size, seems like a sure winner to me!

Regards,

John


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## cmacclel (Feb 10, 2006)

Much better pics Ken ........ I like it, kind of a mix between a handheld light and a lantern style light. Will the price be over 1K?


Also the funky comment was because the only picture I saw of the light was here

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1266663&postcount=35

It looked to big to hold in your hand and the handle was not visable... hence the "Funky" description 


Mac


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## BVH (Feb 10, 2006)

Based on the lumens output, it seems like a 35 Watt, not a 50 Watt?


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## mtbkndad (Feb 10, 2006)

I really like this light. Or maybe I should say I really like what I do not see in this design, the big square ballast bulge. I believe the Polarion, Harbor Frieght HID, and Amondotech's new spotlight have 35 watt bulbs that that the bulb manufacturers state are 3200 lumens + or - 200 lumens so this could be a 35 watt light. I am not sure about the Polarion, but do know that is the "official" spec of the other two. If it performs like a Polarion with that body I would be very, very, happy. It looks like it would feel very well balanced in the hand whether using the handle or carrying by the body. Do you have any outdoor beam shots yet?

Ken,
I personally think, whoever releases this light has a hit on their hands.
Do you have any outdoor beam shots yet?
It looks like that handle could easily slip over a belt, has anybody tried that to see what it feels like?

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## john2551 (Feb 10, 2006)

BVH said:


> Based on the lumens output, it seems like a 35 Watt, not a 50 Watt?


 
Ken already stated in the "review" section that it is a 50w: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1267931&postcount=41

& other key features are listed here: 
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1266459&postcount=32


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## cue003 (Feb 10, 2006)

Ok guys... you KNOW I am in for this. 100%. with extra battery and extra bulb of course. 

I was thinking it was a 35W HID as well even though Ken says it is a 50W. Just from specs that have been posted for other lights with similiar output have all been 35W lights. 

I really don't care if it is 35 or 50w. i want it anyway.



Curtis


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## PGP (Feb 10, 2006)

Im with mtbkndad & BVH, I still think it is a 35W.

This is a very nice looking light with some excellent features like its size & egronomics. I am really interested in getting this light.  

cue003: Is there any HID light you have not purchased yet! :rock: :rock: :lolsign: 

Patrick


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## cue003 (Feb 10, 2006)

PGP, check out BVH.... he is the one with them all ... or waiting on them all. 

Curtis


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## BVH (Feb 10, 2006)

Yeah, OK, so I'm a sicko, I freely admit it. Thats why I'm here, right? At least I'm upholding the CPF unofficial motto... "Buy Them Both". Thats more than I can say about others! :nana:


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## CLHC (Feb 10, 2006)

Again those are really some picture shots. Really like the way it looks! I sure do want one and eagerly await its arrival!


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## Lunarmodule (Feb 10, 2006)

:wow: I LOVE IT

This really got the amperage flowing in my cardiac pacemaker, better than standing close to the microwave at the 7-11. Very exciting, great looking unit but most importantly the FORM FACTOR I have been desiring for a VERY long time. Since Jonathan (Modamag) wont consider producing LeBeau, I remain totally obsessed with my personal Holy Grail of lights: a HANDheld 35W or better HID. As in single handed operation like a 2D Mag length but rotund. The photo with the pistol as a size reference made me WOW out loud, VERY loud. Single handed operation, compact and powerful. I have an x990 and my dream is to have that kind of power in a light the size of the Helios. I was quite disappointed with the latest Superlight shootout because for the most part, despite the stratospheric lumen numbers and incredible range, ALL the contenders were just too darn BIG and HEAVY, like my x990. Only the XeVision 75W had ANY interest to me because it clearly is next level in terms of portable lighthouse output, but quite honestly I'd rather have a smaller light thats far more manageable. The 10W WA HIDs, like MiniHID and MagHID are great all purpose lights. But for x990 type oomph, there's nothing to be had that dosent weight 5 pounds or resemble a clothes iron in form factor. 

The Helios is a tremendously exciting breath of fresh air! I cant wait for MORE MORE MORE info......

Paging Curtis (Cue003).... Since I regard you as my resident expert attuned to every slight minute detail of all the current megalights.... I need you to give me your take on this. Just send me an email, I'll be attending bankruptcy court proceedings but I've managed to hide a few Ben Franklins in the soles of my shoes for just such a thing. Promise though I'll buy the HA3 Elephant from you first, but this Helios is REALLY zinging the salivary glands...


WOW!!!! 

*50w! 105MIN! LiION BATT! WPROOF!
THIS IS IT FOR ME !!!!!!!!
*


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## mtbkndad (Feb 10, 2006)

BVH can correct me here, but I believe the 35 watt Eagleye's and Polarion's get a little over 100 minutes of run time. Unless Ken clarifies otherwise it really seems to be a 35 watt light.

For me personally, if this light could equal a Polarion in light output in that form factor it would be my dream spotlight. The only thing I do not like about the Polarion is how front heavy it feels. This light looks like it would be very comfortable to hold either by the body or by the handle. Right about now I am really wishing I went to SHOT.


Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## BVH (Feb 10, 2006)

Mtbkndad, I have not personally "run out" either my EE or Polarion but I do remember Mr. TB saying that he repeatedly got 108 minutes out of his Polarion. Anyway, as someone said above, whether this is a 35 or 50 Watter doesn't matter. I agree with what Mtbkndad said above - this seems to be the perfect light! Fantastic performance and Fantastic form factor.

Now all we have to put up with is the looooooooooooooong wait! Mr. Ken Good - bring it on quickly, please!


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## mtbkndad (Feb 11, 2006)

"Name, style, specific mechanics, other featurs subject to minor changes.
We may or may not release it under Night-Ops."


As a regular Strategos customer what matters more to me then who ultimately markets this light is if Strategos will be carrying it.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## TENMMIKE (Feb 11, 2006)

mtbkndad said:


> "Name, style, specific mechanics, other featurs subject to minor changes.
> We may or may not release it under Night-Ops."
> 
> 
> ...


I think if it goes under "NIGHT-OPS" it will have to fall under NIGHT-OPS's stated mission, that of it being a light ready for fighting /combat and making it to that level may be prohibitive , or they can release it under something other then night-ops and not have to make it to the levels we expect from NIGHT-OPS now


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## john2551 (Feb 11, 2006)

BVH said:


> Yeah, OK, so I'm a sicko, I freely admit it. Thats why I'm here, right? At least I'm upholding the CPF unofficial motto... "Buy Them Both". Thats more than I can say about others! :nana:


 
At least i can rationalize with "i'll buy it because i need it while on duty" this makes me feels better that it was a "need" & not only a "want"

John


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## kukula (Feb 11, 2006)

Hmmm. I think I just saw my first HID light. And if its from Night Ops, it must be good. I am still loving my Gladius :rock:


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## CLHC (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm just guessing here. . .Looks like the point of the sword on the grip area part and the whole unit appears to be the handle of the sword. . .At least that's how I perceive it.


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## Ken J. Good (Feb 11, 2006)

Hey...I stuck my foot in my mouth...I have been answering spec questions on the net, via email, phone & the booth here at SHOT....It is 35W not 50W...sorry for the confusion.

Best to everybody.


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## CLHC (Feb 11, 2006)

I believe the CPFers here are still going to get this Helios somehow. It sure is awesome looking! Way to go sir! Way to go!

Enjoy!


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## mtbkndad (Feb 11, 2006)

TENMMIKE said:


> I think if it goes under "NIGHT-OPS" it will have to fall under NIGHT-OPS's stated mission, that of it being a light ready for fighting /combat and making it to that level may be prohibitive , or they can release it under something other then night-ops and not have to make it to the levels we expect from NIGHT-OPS now



Define prohibitive, my mtb test bike that I ride is worth more then my 1986 work Van, I think what you mean is that it may limit the number of lights some of us can get this year if we get this one. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Billson (Feb 11, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> Hey...I stuck my foot in my mouth...I have been answering spec questions on the net, via email, phone & the booth here at SHOT....It is 35W not 50W...sorry for the confusion.
> 
> Best to everybody.



Ken,

Is the 3,400 lumen figure still accurate despite your error with the wattage.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 11, 2006)

Billson said:


> Ken,
> 
> Is the 3,400 lumen figure still accurate despite your error with the wattage.




The the 35 watt 4200K bulb that will come in the 3152 is officially rated at 3200 lumens 
+ or - 200. So a 3400 lumen rating for the bulb in the Helios would not be unreasonable. Just remember that with any searchlight or spotlight, the lumen rating of the bulb and the lumens that actually make it out the front end of the light are another matter.

Take Care,
mtbndad :wave:


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## john2551 (Feb 11, 2006)

Being we now know it is a 35w, i guess it's closest "form factor" competition would be the X990 & the Razorlight. Hopefully Jeff can do a comparison.


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## Ken J. Good (Feb 11, 2006)

I am getting my numbers from the manufacturer.
3400 is the number I have.

I have been given my toe-to-toe comparisions in terms of what performs how in the field from this gentleman:

http://home.earthlink.net/%7ekenshiro2/

He has told me the light we have is the King of the Hill in terms of practical performance...

When I can get more units circulating, there will no doubt be pictures & reviews galore of how it acutally stacks up.


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## WAVE_PARTICLE (Feb 11, 2006)

holy shmoly, batman.
Wife's definately going to kill me.....

I'm in the market for a 35W.....damn u.... :naughty:


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## Lightedge (Feb 11, 2006)

Not meaning to get sidetracked, but whats that mounted on the pistol? Something new from Night-ops?

I jus got my dealer application and will be filling out this weekend.


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## CLHC (Feb 11, 2006)

Lightedge said:


> Not meaning to get sidetracked, but whats that mounted on the pistol? Something new from Night-Ops?



That _might_ be the Xiphos and here's an excerpt:

*The Xiphos, designed and manufactured by Insight Technology for Night-Ops, is a 6-volt rail-mounted Luxeon® LED pistol light boasting 80 Lumens of blinding white light.*

The link was provided by MetalHed via— http://flashlightnews.org/story29.shtml


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## mtbkndad (Feb 11, 2006)

Ken,

The following info would be very helpful. You can put it together in all of your spare time.   

Length
Reflector size
Diameter in the narrow portion of the body.
Diameter at the largest part of the tail and head.
Weight

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Alin10123 (Feb 13, 2006)

Ken... which formfactor were you guys going for with the helios? It does look like a flashlight firsthand. But then if you take the handle into consideration, it looks more like a handheld spotlight or something. Is the handle removeable? Is the diameter of the light thin enough to be a handheld flashlight? 

thanks


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## mtbkndad (Feb 13, 2006)

Alin10123 said:


> Ken... which formfactor were you guys going for with the helios? It does look like a flashlight firsthand. But then if you take the handle into consideration, it looks more like a handheld spotlight or something. Is the handle removeable? Is the diameter of the light thin enough to be a handheld flashlight?
> 
> thanks



Here is what Ken posted in the other thread.
Here's some of the key features of the Helios HID.

1) Light Output: 3400 lumens
2) Lamp Life: 3000+ hours
3) Run time: 105 mins
4) High efficiency reflector - Really rocks the competition here.
5) Completely waterPROOF (submersible) to 100 ft.
6) Convienient charging design (cradle)
7) Locking magnetic switch (you can lock the switch so that it doesn't turn on - not in the prototype,however)
8) "Removable handle" design
9) Cartridge-style battery (enabling easy swap)
10) Fast charging time: 2hours 30mins to fully charge one battery
11) Universal charger (90 ~ 240V)
12) Li-Ion battery pack

All in a very small, easy to handle package....Something to think about anyway...


Judging by the photo with the Falcata's I would venture the following guesses from being very familiar with the 6V and 9V Falcata's.

First what I know
A Falcata heads are 1.25" in diameter.
A 6V Falcata is 2" from the top end of the pocket clip to the edge of the back of it's head.

Using these points of reference and a vernier caliper I will venture the following guesses if only to get Ken to correct me where I am wrong. 

The Helios reflector seems to be around 3". (2 Falcata heads + a little extra)
The narrowest part of the body seems to be very close to the length of the end of the 6V Falcata pocket clip (allen bolt end) to the edge of the head which would make it around 2"
If the narrowest part of the body is around 2", then the widest part of the head is probably in the 3 1/2' to 3 3/4" range and the largest part of the tailcap is probably in the 2 1/2" range.
Using the 2" length that I am getting from reference points on the 6V Falcata, the body seems to be around 10" or 11" long (5 times longer then the narrowest part of the body + a little extra).
I cannot see the handle well enough the guess it's length. If I am close with the narrow body part then I could definitely use this as hand held flashlight with the handle removed.

These are very rough guesses using the photo's Ken posted, my knowledge of the Falcata's, a vernier caliper, and my bored insomnia.

Ken, 
Feel free to correct any measurements that are off, which will probably be all of them. I do not think they will be off by too much.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## cue003 (Feb 13, 2006)

Hopefully the weight is under 5lbs

Curtis


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## CLHC (Feb 13, 2006)

cue003 said:


> Hopefully the weight is under 5lbs.



Remember?

Attorney: "Is it heavy?"
Kid: "Yeah!"
Attorney: "Then put it back! It's expensive!"


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## Litbobber (Feb 13, 2006)

CHC said:


> Remember?
> 
> Attorney: "Is it heavy?"
> Kid: "Yeah!"
> Attorney: "Then put it back! It's expensive!"




Jurrasic park!


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## mtbkndad (Feb 13, 2006)

On my Rapala fishing scale a modamag's Eagleye weighs 4lb 15oz. So I would guess the Helios would be at least one pound lighter.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Lunarmodule (Feb 13, 2006)

Preliminary specs make for the most exciting light to come down the pike in a VERY long time. I cant wait to get in on this one. Mtbkndad, great work on estimation of dimensions from photo analysis. I'll be chomping a few bags of popcorn as things unfold. Entirely supposition on my part, but it seems the light is being manufactured by an OEM overseas, it may be possible that variations may appear with altered cosmetics from different branded names. I hold the Night Ops brand in high regard for the integrity of their products, so I have likewise high expectations that it will be a solid performer. Now where was that fast forward button on the calendar again.....?


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## my name is fake (Feb 13, 2006)

can anyone give me an indication what the price range may be?


I just dont want to get my hopes too high ( with regards to me able to afford this beauty...)


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## cue003 (Feb 14, 2006)

It is way too early to tell. I would guess it would be more than $500 but less than $1000. THIS IS JUST A GUESS.

Curtis


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## mtbkndad (Feb 14, 2006)

A Polarion retails for $950 and this is way nicer then a Polarion in terms of size and ergonimic design. 
A Surefire beast retails for around $3,000 and it is essentially a military only light except occasionally.
I would put my guess between these. 
Night-Ops is a military focused company and the feature list mentioned by Ken seems to indicate a fairly high price. 
That is okay since you get what you pay for and this will give me something to work for. Maybe it will help me pseudo curb my flashaholism. It would work like this
"I can't buy that, I am saving for the Helios." Of course purchasing products made by TheOrb, Elektrolumens, and Night-Ops doesn't count. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## NewBie (Feb 14, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> I am getting my numbers from the manufacturer.
> 3400 is the number I have.
> 
> I have been given my toe-to-toe comparisions in terms of what performs how in the field from this gentleman:
> ...





I assume the 3400 is the bulb lumen spec, not the lumens comming out the front?

This could easily drop to 2200 lumens out the front of the light, depending on the design.


Could you please elaborate?


.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 14, 2006)

Newbie,

You have a very good question and point as usual.
Since the numbers come from the manufacturer, I will am pretty sure they will be for the bulb. I would love to see the 35 watt HID that could put a full and true 3400 lumens out of the front end of the light. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## kukula (Feb 14, 2006)

Mtbkndad: $950 to $3000? Thats alot of dough:sweat: I might end up in the poor house just to get this light :mecry:


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## Alin10123 (Feb 14, 2006)

cue003 said:


> It is way too early to tell. I would guess it would be more than $500 but less than $1000. THIS IS JUST A GUESS.
> 
> Curtis



Well... Ken said that the pricing would be at less than similar pricing on similar sized lights. The arco x990 has similar lumens from the bulb doesn't it? I believe it's only around $300 though.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 14, 2006)

kukula,

That is a lot of dough but, if this light is designed for military applicatons I do not see it being less. I will need to save a while. Ken also mentioned it may or may not be released as a Night-Ops light. Though I do not think that would effect the price. I will just need to save a good while. It certainly is not like I lack spotlights.
I would just like to own one top of the line model that could really be easily packed and used and this seems to fit the bill best.

Alin10123,

I took what Ken said to mean similar in all aspects of the specs(see post #42 of this thread) I don't think I would want to take an X990 100 feet under water. 
The only lights that look similar in size and application to me would be the Beast and the new mini beast some CPF members have been talking about. I don't think it would be hard to be under their price points. Even the Polarion, with it's amazing 3" reflector, seems big compared to this Helios light. In fact if you look at the link below
you will see that the Polarion is very compact and still has that big "box" on the bottom that is missing on the Helios.
Does anybody know if the Surefire's are waterfproof?
I am curious now what other 35 wattt HID lights out their share the same specs as the Helios?
I am not asking the question to say the Helios is wonderful. Rather, I am curious about what lights would directly compete with this light in a military or other security related application feature for feature?

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/84163

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## cue003 (Feb 14, 2006)

mtbkndad said:


> On my Rapala fishing scale a modamag's Eagleye weighs 4lb 15oz. So I would guess the Helios would be at least one pound lighter.
> 
> Take Care,
> mtbkndad :wave:



I hope you are right, but I thought the Helios has a metal body? It looks that way in the pictures so that has to add a little weight.

Curtis


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## J_Oei (Feb 15, 2006)

If there is a GB list forming, be sure to add my name!!


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## Ken J. Good (Feb 15, 2006)

All,

Been on the road and then dealing with some of the follow-up after the SHOT show.

This a proto. Repeat this is a proto. More minor changes to come. Just thought I stir the pot....:naughty: 

It has an aluminum handle that will be a composite plastic.
It has some plastic in the body that will be aluminum.

This light is somewhere between 4 to 4.25 pounds as it sits. Don't have a great scale in my home here.

I am going to have to learn to speak HID as my entire life I have been in the baby light range....So please forgive me.

Already planning a lower-level of light LED system for tracking purposes both visible and IR.

Need a rubber boot to help with the inevitable fall from the hand to the ground.

With our without the removable handle, is it nice in the hand.

Already looking to weapon-mount a variant of this.

I will provide details as things unfold.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 15, 2006)

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the update, I am curious about the handle in it's current design.
One pro of its design is that it can hook over things like a belt.
One minus is that it can catch on things.
Will the removable handle have the same design or will it's front sit closer too or flush with the light body?

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## MSI (Feb 15, 2006)

Ken, I hope you will include attachement points for shoulder strap.


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## AlanH (Feb 15, 2006)

Thanks guys and Ken for stirring me up ! A great looking light that hopefully will perform as well as it looks.

PP ready, CC ready, Cash, whatever it takes ! Where do I send the wire ?

Helios, it is then. Please advise when it can be bought.

Alan


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## AlexGT (Feb 15, 2006)

Where are the beamshots???? Hey, this is CPF!, Beamshots are mandatory!!!! lol! maybe like 50, 100 and 250 yards out.


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## mtbkndad (Feb 19, 2006)

AlexGT said:


> Where are the beamshots???? Hey, this is CPF!, Beamshots are mandatory!!!! lol! maybe like 50, 100 and 250 yards out.



Hello Ken,

I am with AlexGT, we need beamshots.
I would really like to know what this light performs like.
If the only changes from the prototype to the production model will be rather minor and not related to either the reflector or the ballast bulb assembly, then some good beam shots would be really nice. 

There is definitely interest in this light, whatever name is comes out under.

Take Care,
mtkbndad :wave:


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## Ken J. Good (Feb 20, 2006)

I stated here or in another thread, beamshots will come.

I will give the next versoin of the light to those that are better equipped to test and have quite a few other HID's to directly compare it to.

I do not think there will be waves of disappointment when this light is compared toe-to-toe with others.


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## EricMack (Feb 20, 2006)

:wow: Why do I have this feeling that THIS is the light that is going to get me off the fence?!


Looks great so far, Ken.


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## tonyd (Feb 21, 2006)

I know you can count me in. Do I smell group buy?


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## BVH (Feb 21, 2006)

If it smells like the inside of your wallet, it must be a group Buy! Poor wallet is worn out from being opened too much!


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## Lunarmodule (Feb 22, 2006)

mtbkndad,

To the extent of my knowledge the only true competitor for this light in terms of sheer output for a compact handheld and substantial runtime is the Reva RI-2200 NOS light, but they have focused their marketing solely at military/police applications. There is rumor they may begin selling to us civvies sometime mid to late year (06) but the price will be around $2500 or so. I emailed Reva several times for price quotes and delivery options and wasnt even granted the courtesy of a polite refusal, no response whatsoever. Damn shame, the specs are pure HID lust material... Google Reva NOS for the tech info. 

Personally I think the Helios is THE HID light of 2006, only the Barn Burner 75W XeVision light and it impress me significantly over existing offerings. I was really ho-hummed by the Superlights III contestants, disappointed in the Rayzor performance and unimpressed by the heavyweight clothes iron form factor lights. I already have an x990 if I want to sculpt my biceps, I'm looking for the production equivalent of Modamag's LeBeau custom light, so far the Helios looks to be the only game in town as far as that goes. 

Except for the Surefire Minibeast (M6 sized) HID proto. As much as I like Surefire product, their HID offerings go against my grain, radically overpriced for what they offer, overly bulky, and irritatingly dependent on disposable batteries -- just because they can be. The new mini proto is a very direct Helios competitor, but I have doubts that it could be fast tracked to production. I am very much relieved that Ken is pushing the throttles forward to get the Helios to the market, its very much an untapped region. 

Since I first held a UK light cannon 3 years ago and looked at hi-perf automotive HID applications I thought it was only a matter of time before someone starts making killer HID flashlights, not just huge search lanterns, but handheld photon cannons. My Acro x990 immediately won my heart with its outstanding output, but I curse its heft and bulk when I carry it. For me the magic formula is equal or better output to x990 in a Mag 2D size form. Rechargeable, mondo runtime, variable power output, focusable. Oooops the alarm clock just went off, I was dreaming (sleep-typing?) at the keyboard.... back to reality!


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## mtbkndad (Feb 22, 2006)

Lunarmodule,

You have some good points.
I am aware of the Reva RI-2200 NOS but do not really think of that as a direct competitor to the Helios because of it's 2400 lumen bulb as opposed to the 3400 lumen bulb of the Helios.
That said, I would not be suprised if the Helios is closer to the Reva's price range then the $950 price of the Polarion.
A lot of people have commented about the mini Beast, but it seems to me if the Beast is around $2,800 and the mini Beast is smaller, more sophisticated, and has the same light output, it will be more expensive then the bigger less sophisticated Beast. 
I also like what you said about the X990. My favorite 35 watt HID light in terms of light output is the Polarion. To me, it has the perfect blend of a wide enough hotspot to illuminate and area while still being able to illuminate objects 100's of yards away. I do not see how any small 35 watt HID spotlight can do better then the light output of the Polarion. At the same time I do not like the "box" on the bottom of the Polarion or it's front heavy feel when carrying. If the Helios, with it's small size and innovative features, could equal the light output of the Polarion and be in the price range of the Reva or a little less then that would be a must have light. The extra price over a $950 Polarion would be worth it to have a legitimately packable 35 Watt HID spotlight.

These are just my opinions and speculations.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Kiessling (Feb 22, 2006)

Well said!
We are now approaching a state where finally very small, very high quality and very bright high-tech HIDs come to life, like we could only dream a few years ago.
I am very curious about the real capabilities and prices of the Helios and Mini Beast as I think those two are the real contenders out there ...  ... and my wallet is afraid ... 

bernie


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## CLHC (Feb 22, 2006)

Kiessling said:


> We are now approaching a state where finally a very small, very high quality and very bright high-tech HIDs come to life. . .and my wallet is afraid. . .


Ho Hey Yeah on that Bernie! VERY AFRAID!


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## stollman (Feb 28, 2006)

Curtis was kind enough to leadme to this thread. I am a caver, and size and weight are pretty important. I have an X990, but as one CPF member already pointed out, it is freakin heavy and large making it difficult to haul around in a cave (lots of tight places). I was anxious to hear the news about the Helios. I know most CPF members look more for throw, but in a cave, a good flood is maybe more important. I also shoot video of my trips, so I am looking for a light with little/no light artifacts.

I was wondering if Ken could advise if the light will have an adjustable beam (Flood/Spot) and how clean the output would be. I think a lot of cavers would love to purchase this light if it can provide this type of output options. It appears to come in a nice package (size & weight). I like the reported easy of swapping batteries. Being in a cave for 5-7 hours, I'd need to purchase a few extras.

Mike


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## Ras_Thavas (Mar 1, 2006)

I think of all the HID lights I have seen the Helios is the best looking. 

Depending on the price, I would be interested in getting one.


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## cue003 (Mar 1, 2006)

stollman said:


> Curtis was kind enough to leadme to this thread. I am a caver, and size and weight are pretty important. I have an X990, but as one CPF member already pointed out, it is freakin heavy and large making it difficult to haul around in a cave (lots of tight places). I was anxious to hear the news about the Helios. I know most CPF members look more for throw, but in a cave, a good flood is maybe more important. I also shoot video of my trips, so I am looking for a light with little/no light artifacts.
> 
> I was wondering if Ken could advise if the light will have an adjustable beam (Flood/Spot) and how clean the output would be. I think a lot of cavers would love to purchase this light if it can provide this type of output options. It appears to come in a nice package (size & weight). I like the reported easy of swapping batteries. Being in a cave for 5-7 hours, I'd need to purchase a few extras.
> 
> Mike



Thanks for the shout out.

Curtis.


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## BVH (Mar 1, 2006)

It doesn't look to me by looking at the pics that it has an adjustable reflector.


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## stollman (Mar 2, 2006)

Ken advised it will be a fixed beam.


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## cue003 (Mar 7, 2006)

Any more progress?

Curtis


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## Litbobber (Mar 7, 2006)

Ras_Thavas said:


> I think of all the HID lights I have seen the Helios is the best looking.
> 
> Depending on the price, I would be interested in getting one.




Me want one too!!
Thanks
Brett


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## Ken J. Good (Mar 7, 2006)

Update:

BlackHawk Products Group does not want to bring this into the Night-Ops Product line. I will not address any questions as to why or why not.

Strategos International wants to bring this light foward and we will do so.

I am currently in Germany at IWA, but I am in progress to get this in full production in the next 2 months.

Will post ALL the details as the final arrangements are finalized.

Best to everybody.

Ken J. Good
President of Strategos International LLC


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## BVH (Mar 7, 2006)

Hurray! Thanks, Ken!


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## cue003 (Mar 7, 2006)

Thanks Ken. It is going to be a long 2 months. 

Looking forward to the final product.

Curtis


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## mtbkndad (Mar 9, 2006)

Ken,

This is very exciting news as I am a regular Strategos customer and would personally rather deal with Strategos entirely on a product like the Helios. I just ordered some 5.11 H.R.T.'s to go with my ever increasing list of Strategos purchases.

Your company is top notch. I am really looking forward to this light being available. I can say from personal experience that if anybody reading this post has never dealt with Strategos International, it certainly be worth your while to take a look.

http://www.strategosintl.com/

http://www.strategosstore.com

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## GhostReaction (Mar 9, 2006)

2 months for those in the Barn Burner GB to recover the wallets.
Hope the price is right


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## AlexGT (Mar 10, 2006)

Any more updates? 

I am scratching my head as to what gadgets need to go to afford this light.

AlexGT


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## PGP (Mar 11, 2006)

AlexGT said:


> Any more updates?
> 
> I am scratching my head as to what gadgets need to go to afford this light.
> 
> AlexGT



Yeah! Lets see what can I sell! Anyone want to buy a new 36" JVC TV, should get me $800.00 closer to this light. Who needs a TV, this light is worth hours of entertainment. :laughing: 

Patrick


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## GhostReaction (Mar 16, 2006)

Any more Helios news?


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## TENMMIKE (Mar 18, 2006)

hmm i noticed mr good has left the

Night-Ops Illumination Tools
www.night-ops.com

off his sig on his last post


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## AlexGT (Mar 18, 2006)

I would really like to see comparison beamshots of this light, and yes that is odd that he didn't add the night ops website on his sig.

Hope this project is going along well

AlexGT


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## AlexGT (Mar 23, 2006)

How come a really sexy small hid light gets no followups in the last 5 days(EDIT since 3-7-06)? Cmon give us some updates!!! Please.

AlexGT


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## mtbkndad (Mar 24, 2006)

As a regular Strategos customer I think it is worth mentioning that the guys at Strategos spend much of their time traveling and doing training seminars. During these times correspondence and updates can be difficult. This is true regarding CPF posts or even sometimes order updates. For me personally, the service they provide for those that go in harms way on our behalf is worth the occasional inconveniences so I take it in stride and continue to support their business with my purchases. 

I am sure Ken Good will be back when he is able and has more info to share.


Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## larryk (Mar 29, 2006)

The Helios looks very similar to the newer Polarion here,

http://www.polarion.co.kr/


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## cue003 (Mar 29, 2006)

I have been wondering when someone would point that out. 

Looks like the head of the Polarion PXM-35CB and the body of the PXM-35PH. Specs are very similiar to Polarions as well. hmm.

Curtis


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## Lando (Mar 29, 2006)

:duh2: :huh: hmmz..wonder if EagleEye will be selling the new Polarion type light....


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## mtbkndad (Mar 29, 2006)

Good find larryk. That should put pricing issues more to rest. If Polarion makes it and it equals "Polarion" light output in a much smaller package with significantly more features, it will probably be significantly more then a "Polarion". That would make my original range more accurate - between a Polarion and a Beast.
For those of you that think the smaller "Mini-Beast" will be less then the beast with it's increased features and smaller size, I have one thing to say    . I think the Mini beast will likely come in between a Beast and a Hellfire in price. From a marketing perspective it would of also be one reason the Hellfire could have been released first.
To reduce the sticker shock of the prospective MiniBeast clients. When you add to this the fact that a beast does not compete with a Polarion for overall light output. 

I think the Helios will be a good buy anywhere in the range mentioned above.
Once again these are just my personal speculations.
Ken can correct me at any time, but until then, these speculations are part of the fun of being on CPF 


Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## cue003 (Mar 29, 2006)

HOLD ON!!!! How did we end up at:



mtbkndad said:


> ....If Polarion makes it and it equals "Polarion" light output in a much smaller package with significantly more features, it will probably be significantly more then a "Polarion".



What are these features that you speak of? My understanding is the magnetic switch, round ballast and size are the only "differences". The switch will be only thing that I would call a "feature". Are there other things that I don't know about.... battery meter, additional LEDs for low light output, flash capability for signalling? Just curious.

I know the size etc COULD put it at the Polarion price point (approx $950) but I really don't see the significantly more than a "Polarion" price being necessarily justified. Specs so far (I know it is not finalized yet) are very very similiar between the two lights with the differences I mentioned above. I have been wrong in the past and I could be very much so wrong here too.


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## AlexGT (Mar 29, 2006)

Hey it does look like the new polarion!

AlexGT


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## mtbkndad (Mar 30, 2006)

cue003,

The way I see it, the most significant and probably the most expensive will be the tiny ballast needed to fit inside that little body. After that I would have to hunt down the specs again. On the less expensive end would be the removeable handle, the switching and charging systems, etc. Once again I would have to look up the specs again, they were posted somewhere.

Remember, size alone is a HUGE improvement. That feature alone would make even double the Polarion's price worthwhile to me. I really do not like how a regular Polarion feels in the hand. To me it has a very front heavy feel if I do not hold the front of the handle.

For me, these are the features that matter. 

Small - relatively speaking
Packable
Polarion light output.
Good run time.
Ergonimic design
Waterproof

For my purposes a regular Polarion fails in the following areas-

Small- I do not like the "box" on the bottom
Packable- It will take too much space with the big square bottom
Ergonomic design- no for $950 I do not like how it feels in the hand.

A regular Polarion fails in 3 out of the six catagories that are important to me. 
The Helios passes all six.


My one of my main uses for this light would be for carrying in my mtb backpack for long solo night rides. You can never have too much light in certain circumstances. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## NewBie (Mar 30, 2006)

mtbkndad said:


> Here is what Ken posted in the other thread.
> Here's some of the key features of the Helios HID.
> 
> 1) Light Output: 3400 lumens
> ...



It seems Ken said the bulb manufacturer quoted 3400 lumens out of the lamp.

If Ken is using an Enhanced Protected Silver reflector, like Reva Night Operation Systems has had for awhile now, then they will not really rock the competition. 

Unfortunately for most CPF'ers, the Reva Night Operation Systems RI-2200 sacrifices some of the visible light, for an enhanced NIR output, which is very useful for some night vision devices when using their specialized visible cut filter.
http://www.revanos.com/productdetail.php?pi=1
http://www.revanos.com/datafiles/RI_2200_spec_sheet.pdf

It is interesting to note that many HID lights fell far short of their ratings, in actual testing by one of the US Naval Weapons Labs. Some of the HID lights that fell short, are in *very high* regards with the CPF crowd. For some of them, the batteries didn't last through but a few cycles, for some, the output dimmed once the light warmed up, for some, they fell quite short of their lumen ratings, the bulb dimmed considerably after only a few use cycles, or could not pass the drop test they claimed they could. Offhand, I forget the other areas they didn't hold up in.

Even with specialized reflector coatings, you still suffer a noticable drop in Lumen output, but not nearly as bad as reflectors you find on the majority of CPF flashlights.

Ken, 

When do you thing you'll actually get a chance to measure the actual lumen output?


----------



## Sway (Mar 30, 2006)

NewBie said:


> It is interesting to note that many HID lights fell far short of their ratings, in actual testing by one of the US Naval Weapons Labs. Some of the HID lights that fell short, are in *very high* regards with the CPF crowd. For some of them, the batteries didn't last through but a few cycles, for some, the output dimmed once the light warmed up, for some, they fell quite short of their lumen ratings, the bulb dimmed considerably after only a few use cycles, or could not pass the drop test they claimed they could.



Jar,

Any chance you could provide a link to this information, after doing several searches I couldn't find anything fitting.

Later
Kelly


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## mtbkndad (Mar 30, 2006)

NewBie,

I agree that the lumens will not be near 3400 lumens out the front end.
Ken only relayed what the manufacturer said the bulb was rated at. I believe he clarified that in another post.
My personal belief is that the 3400 lumens is also probably the high end of a lumens range that the bulb is capable of unless each bulb is being individually tested before being put into a light.

For me the lumens becomes a moot point if Polarion is indeed the manufacturer.
This is because if it uses a "Polarion" bulb and a "Polarion" 3" reflector, it should have "Polarion" light output if the new little ballast performs as well as the older larger ballast.

Polarion light output in this smaller form factor is fine with me.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## London (Apr 9, 2006)

some folks have made some negative observations on the form factor of the Polarion and while I'm partial (obviously) to them I just wanted to point out some food for thought on why I personally like the ergonomics very much, especially from a weapon-user perspective:

the handle is analgous to the A2 handle on an AR15/M16 rifle and to me is quite natural and handy. The flat base/ballast makes certain that is won't roll off the hood of a car etc. Also, per the picture below you can see that it has very "weapon friendly" ergonomics. if you want something to put in a backpack then the AE24 is a much better form-factor mind you. Just depends on application.


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## mtbkndad (Apr 10, 2006)

London,

You have some very good points regarding the Polarion.
I mentioned in a prior post that I called Polarion and was told they are meant to be ergnomic while wearing fire fighter's gloves. A Helios would probably also work nicely in the picture you posted. 

Regarding the AE24, it is a wimp compared to a Polarion and if the Helios is like the Polarion I will wait.  . I certainly hope people do not think that I think the Polarion is not a nice light. I just do not like it in comparison to a Helios.
If there was no Helios on the Horizon, the Polarion is the only other HID light I would consider at this time that is more expensive then the Amondotech Illuminator.
How's that for a price jump.   

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## igabo (Apr 11, 2006)

Sorry to go off topic, but where can you actually buy any Polarion HID light? I've never seen any dealers as of yet, and none appear on ebay.


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## AlanH (Apr 11, 2006)

igabo said:


> Sorry to go off topic, but where can you actually buy any Polarion HID light? I've never seen any dealers as of yet, and none appear on ebay.



Great Deal here:


Polarion for sale 

Alan


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## Solomon MK2 (Apr 11, 2006)

mtbkndad,

I'm a little confused. 

Please don't get this the wrong way, but at the very beginning, you stated that the price would be higher than a Mini-HID and less than other HIDs in the same category (or something to that effect).

What I thought you meant was that the price would be somewhere between the two.

Now, other 35w HIDs are as stated the Razorbeams, Polarion, Xeray, X990 and the Surefire Beast. I may have been imagining things, but I thought this light would be one of the lower priced ones. 

However, the only 35w HID that this light costs "less than" is the Surefire Beast, and you've given the impression that it's more costly than 90% of the *other* lights in this category.

Before, you were talking DOWN the price, (i.e. more than Mini-HID, less than the other lights) now you're talking UP the price. This is incongruent.

Are you privvy to information that no one else here knows? Please clarify.

Solomon


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## mtbkndad (Apr 11, 2006)

Solomon MK2,

The statement you are referring to came from Ken Good and not myself.

"Price....More than a mini-mag and probably less than any other HID in this performance category."

What I have said all along is that I do not see this light being less then a Polarion or more then a Beast. I am not privvy to any special information regarding the final retail price of this light. I am just what I consider to be realistic. I have also said I am fine with Ken Good correcting my guessing if I am wrong. There is no incongruity here with my pricing estimates. You just read a post Ken posted and thought I said it. For that matter my pricing estimate fits INSIDE of Ken's, and you misread what Ken said because he said mini-mag not mini-HID.
His statement was also a little vague in terms of what he meant by performance catagory. I take it to mean the total light(size, output, features, target market, etc.). That would seem to put very few lights in it's "performance catagory".

My logic in this matter is simple.
The Polarion sells for $950. It now seems Polarion is more then likely the maker of the Helios from the "New Polarion" thread. The Helios is smaller and more sophisticated. Somebody will have to pay for that R&D. The Beast sells for around $3,000( I do not know it's current exact price.)
ALL I have been saying, since post # 50 of this thread when I first guessed at the price range, is that I think the price will be BETWEEN $950 and $3,000. Other CPF members have guessed lower but until proven otherwise I will stick with my guesses.

I hope this helps clear things up for you.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Solomon MK2 (Apr 11, 2006)

Cool, thanks mkbkndad.

I guess we're all guessing at this stage. Some more optimistic than others.  

I for one hope they get sold at the lower end of the scale. Being a flashaholic sure is an expensive hobby!

Solomon


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## GhostReaction (Apr 12, 2006)

$900 for a compact 35watt HID.
:thinking: Now if the $900 price range guess is correct that would be twice the cost of a 24watt Microfire Warrior II: $420.
This Helios light should better be good


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## mtbkndad (Apr 12, 2006)

GhostReaction said:


> $900 for a compact 35watt HID.
> :thinking: Now if the $900 price range guess is correct that would be twice the cost of a 24watt Microfire Warrior II: $420.
> This Helios light should better be good



Remember the Helios will be a 35 watt HID.
The regular Polarion is already $950.00.
The Polarion is very nice and worth the price with it size and performance.
That is why I am GUESSING the Helios will be more.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## AlexGT (Apr 12, 2006)

Do you think that Eagle Eyes will try to market a lower cost model as they did on the polarion?

AlexGT


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## mtbkndad (Apr 12, 2006)

AlexGT,

This is only my SPECULATION. I do not believe you will ever see another circumstance where Namyung will be providing products to an area they are not supposed to. Remember they still have to get their products from the Mother Ship(Kum Kang). I do not think it is wise for a company like Kum Kang to make distribution agreements for certain exclusive geographical areas and then let their clients violate them without consequences.

Here is another point to throw into the mix. None of us, except Ken, knows what types of agreements are being made with the maker of the Helios.
It certainly does seem to be Kum Kang/Polarion based on the "New Polarion" thread.
Will this be exclusive to Strategos?
Will it be exclusive to Strategos in a geographical region?
Will Strategos be a dealer?
If Strategos is a dealer, will the light have stringent price protection agreements?

Ultimately all of that will be known to us in time.
Until then I am figuring on what we do know.

1. Strategos will sell these under some arangement with the maker that we will find out in time.
2. If Kum Kang is the maker and a Polarion is $950, then these will likely be significantly more.

I want to emphasize these are only my speculations and I am a CUSTOMER of Strategos not and employee. The last time I spoke to anybody at strategos was regarding my order of a pair of 5.11 H.R.T. boots about a month ago.

Now I did call Polarion a while back and asked about the handle, the design purpose of the light, etc. The Eagleye issue was still going on at the time and as a side note to my conversation there was a reference to Namyung not doing anything like that again under directive from Kum Kang. If I remember correctly, Namyung is only supposed to market in portions of Asia.
As I said, that was a side note in a conversation that was on another topic (Polarion's design purpose, ergonomics, etc.), but I think I got the essence of the message correct.

The one thing that may keep me from getting a Helios is my increasing "NEED" to get a green laser. 

Of course maybe a Zenith El Primero Chronograph at $75,000 could cause problems too. 
Just joking, not about the watch price, rather about my pockets being deep enough to spring for one. :sigh:

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## GhostReaction (Apr 13, 2006)

I would really hope for a cheaper price on the Helios so I could save up enough for a Zenith EL Primero GB.


----------



## mtbkndad (Apr 13, 2006)

GhostReaction said:


> I would really hope for a cheaper price on the Helios so I could save up enough for a Zenith EL Primero GB.




We may not need a group buy for the watch, I found a site that has it for under $75,000 and even by it's proper name. "El Primero" is technically the movement used sorry about the mix up I rushed the last post.

http://store.yahoo.com/brandnamesonly/grchxxttowa1.html

    

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## Keltec (Apr 13, 2006)

NewBie said:


> It is interesting to note that many HID lights fell far short of their ratings, in actual testing by one of the US Naval Weapons Labs. Some of the HID lights that fell short, are in *very high* regards with the CPF crowd. For some of them, the batteries didn't last through but a few cycles, for some, the output dimmed once the light warmed up, for some, they fell quite short of their lumen ratings, the bulb dimmed considerably after only a few use cycles, or could not pass the drop test they claimed they could. Offhand, I forget the other areas they didn't hold up in.



NewBie, could you elaborate on above topic?


----------



## Solomon MK2 (Apr 14, 2006)

Any news on this light?


----------



## London (Apr 15, 2006)

hi Igabo, ALD sells polarion and they have very good references in law enforcement circles. (I'm the VP so I get to see the mail)


www.aldcompany.com

cheers,

London.


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## Solomon MK2 (Apr 17, 2006)

mtbkndad,

Something just occurred to me...

If the Group Buy price for this light is over the $1000 mark as you seem to suggest, *it would actually set a RECORD on CPF!!!*

Even the *MaxaBeam GB *that was going a while back, was priced at $995 - for a MaxaBeam!!! And I believe that was the record price. I could be wrong. Please correct me if I am. But this GB could set CPF history once again!

Solomon


----------



## picard (Apr 17, 2006)

Is it safe to bring helios on airline? Would I have to put in check in luggage? Has anyone brought along HID light on planes?


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## mtbkndad (Apr 18, 2006)

Solomon MK2,

I do not remember Ken ever mentioning a group buy.
Did I miss something or did he just make a product announcement?
I just sent an email to Strategos. I mentioned your post and asked if anyone has ever asked about the possibility of a group buy for CPF members. I mentioned either a group buy or a limited time introductory CPF discount.

Of course I want to re-emphasize I am a customer with a major case of "Helios need Syndrome"  and have no say in or knowledge of their marketing plans. A group buy or limited time CPF discount may not be feasible at this time.

I will be very interested to see what the retail price ends up being and if there will be either a CPF group buy or CPF limited time introductory special price. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## Solomon MK2 (Apr 18, 2006)

mtbkndad,

Now that I think of it, I don't think you did mention that there was going to be GB!!! :lolsign: 

I just assumed that there would be, with all the interest that's showing up on this post, I thought it would only be a matter of time...

I'm sure that everyone who participates in a GB (if there indeed is one) will be happy to do a short write up of the NightOps. That "might" entice them a little...
BTW: thanks for going to the effort to make the inquiry on our behalf. :rock: 

Warmest Regards,
Solomon


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 19, 2006)

6 weeks since Kens last post? Not looking good............seems ever since someone mentioned his light looked very similar to the new polarian he's gone missing.


Mac


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## Solomon MK2 (Apr 19, 2006)

Even if they look similiar, it's not a big issue IMHO. As long as it performs, has decent features and is competitively priced, a fair number of people are going to be buying one.


----------



## mtbkndad (Apr 19, 2006)

Oops, edit reposted so I removed the original.


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## mtbkndad (Apr 19, 2006)

cmacclel said:


> 6 weeks since Kens last post? Not looking good............seems ever since someone mentioned his light looked very similar to the new polarian he's gone missing.
> 
> Mac



If you read Ken's last post you certainly would have read this-

"Will post ALL the details as the final arrangements are finalized."

In my post #90 I mentioned that the Strategos guys spend much of their time traveling and conducting training seminars.
Add to this the fact that Ken is not a "post for the sake of posting" kind of person and I think you are reading negative in to a perfectly normal circumstance. 
I am quite confident that all is going well since we have not heard anything from Ken. I think if something was wrong he would have posted.
Before I purchased my first Gladius I read every one of Ken's posts up to that point so I could get an idea of the person behind the product.
Remember that for whatever reason Blackhawk decided not to market these under the Night-Ops name and Strategos stepped in.
These will be Strategos Helios or whatever name.
That change alone would take some time to iron out with the manufacturer
since the distributor of their product has completely changed.

Anyway, I have had lots of dealing with Strategos as a customer. My last order was last week. From my experience with Strategos, I do not expect an update until everything is in place. After all, that is what Ken said he would do.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## cmacclel (Apr 19, 2006)

My point is that he signed in a few days ago and surely read up on this thread. I thought with all the talk of this being of Polarion decent he would of chimed into the discussion. 

Mac


----------



## Ken J. Good (Apr 19, 2006)

All,

Not gone missing.

The speculation and assumptions that go on here are interesting to say the least.

1. Strategos has worked with Polarian in designing the light....Hence the pics of the Helios's on Polarian's site.

2. Strategos is attempting to launch this light in conjuction with Polarion. Still working out the details. If we cannot move in that direction, then Polarian will release it under it's umbrella and we will be dealer of this light.

It is that simple. 

Additionally, I have made a conscious effort to spend less time talking/punching keys on a keyboard in front of a computer screen in order to get back into better physical shape...The last few years have been business, business, business....At the core of my person, I am really an athelete/trainer. My communications will not be as frequent on discussion boards.

I know some folks have already approached Polarian for a group buy. If Strategos moves forward with Polarian, we will certainly entertain a group-buy. It won't be for $900 I can assure of that. 

If you want a $900 Polarian, it is already out there.

More to follow.


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## picard (Apr 19, 2006)

when will the helios be on sale ? all of this teasing by posting photos is making me really upset. I hate to be teased. 

what is retail price of helios?


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## mtbkndad (Apr 19, 2006)

picard,

I am as curious as anybody about the final price, availability, etc..
I do not think Ken has been intentionally teasing. He may have been a bit pre-mature in his announcement since Blackhawk pulled out. Remember this was at SHOT as a potential new Night-Ops light.

As soon as Ken posted that Blackhawk was out and Strategos was seeking to take over on this project I assumed there would be delays. That is just the nature of dealer negotiations, product development, etc..
Technically we are still within the original time frame Ken gave to get things going.

On a different note I would like to know if the light output is equal to the Polarion like I have been hoping for since Polarion is making this light.
Polarion light output in the Helios form factor really is a must have light for me.
Of course the final price may make a difference on how soon a must have it will be .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## Solomon MK2 (Apr 19, 2006)

Here's a thought:

Do we have an indicative date as to when this light is suppossed to be available? If you can provide us with some kind of time frame, then we'll all have something to look forward to, rather than us all rushing in and pressuring poor Ken...


----------



## mtbkndad (Apr 20, 2006)

Hi Solomon MK2 ,
This is what I have to go on.





Ken J. Good said:


> Update:
> 
> BlackHawk Products Group does not want to bring this into the Night-Ops Product line. I will not address any questions as to why or why not.
> 
> ...




This was Ken's post on March 7.
I suppose after the week of the 8th of May would be a good time to ask for any updates. That would be one week after Ken's original projected 2 month time frame for more details.
The way I have been looking at this is that any announcement before the 2 month mark would be early. The week of the 8th is because things come up. After that would be a good time to ask for updates.
I have dealt with numerous companies in different industries over the years and new products or product modifications have rarely rolled out on schedule.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## Billson (Apr 20, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> It won't be for $900 I can assure of that.



Hi Ken,

Just want to make sure but can we safely assume it will be lower than this figure rather than higher since your statement could mean either way.

Thanks.


----------



## Solomon MK2 (Apr 20, 2006)

Bill,

I have serious doubts that it will be lower that $900.

Just this statement alone... 

_If you want a $900 Polarian, it is already out there._

I'm inferring here, but I think that Ken is indicating that if you want a cheaper light, the current Polarian might suit your needs. Like I said, that's just my own inference.

Solomon


----------



## Billson (Apr 20, 2006)

Like I said, it could mean either way and after re-reading Ken's post, it seems you may be right. Too bad, I was hoping this would be my first HID flashlight. :sigh:


----------



## Solomon MK2 (Apr 20, 2006)

I too hope that this light will be on the lower side of the price range. I've been spending WAAAY too much money on flashlights lately.

But even if this light is on the high side, I'll prob'ly still get it. It's the kind of performance that I'm looking for, and in te form factor that I like


----------



## kukula (Apr 20, 2006)

Billson said:


> Like I said, it could mean either way and after re-reading Ken's post, it seems you may be right. Too bad, I was hoping this would be my first HID flashlight. :sigh:


 
Oh cmon Bill. You know you can easily raise that much, even more, simply by lettin go some of those to die for lights in your stash


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## mtbkndad (Apr 20, 2006)

I think Solomon MK2 is right about the price. The only way I can see Ken's statement being interpreted correctly is that if you want to spend around $900, buy a Polarion(I believe $950). I think the Helios will be significantly more. If it is not, it will adversly effect Polarion sales. I do not see Kum Kang putting R&D into developing this new light and then allowing it to be sold at a price point that will hurt it's existing product. I do think it is reasonable to EXPECT companies like Surefire and KumKang to price products at points that will allow them to recoup R & D expenses.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## cue003 (Apr 20, 2006)

I understand that it will be more expensive but significantly more expensive for a light that performs almost identical (output, runtime, power... small weight difference) to the $950 version in a different shell is hard to swallow. 

More expensive yes due to the smaller size, magnetic switch etc. but I still don't see significantly more. For sure not 2x maybe 1.25x or 1.5x but that is as far as I can see.... only more if the runtime increases or you have a better light producing product.

So I guess it depends on ones definition of significant. To *me* significant is more than 1.5x

Just my thoughts... It is all speculation at this point since the product has not hit market. 

Curtis


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## Solomon MK2 (Apr 20, 2006)

If it's more than 1.5x, that would effectively price me out of the market.  I just can't justify paying THAT much for a flashlight. Particularly as it will be spending most of it's life inside the house, and it won't be any brighter than the multitude of 35w HIDs under $1000 

Yes, if it were a 75w HID in the same kind of form factor, and run time, waterproof up to 100 metres, and with auto-focus, I would strongly consider the purchase again! :laughing:


----------



## mtbkndad (Apr 20, 2006)

cue003,

My version of significantly works like this. I think anything under $1,500 would hurt Polarion sales.
I also think this light is targeted to the same crowd as the Beast and the Reva-
Military, Homeland Security, Emergency Services, etc.. 
I think the price will be closer to those competitors (Somewhere in the $2,000's range is what I have thought all along, hence the more then Polarion and less then Beast range.). Would I like it to be less, of course. I am just what I consider to be realistic and the new Surefire Hellfire is over $6,000 for a 35 watt HID(special features for a special HID).
I think that if Strategos or Polarion is smart they will not be too concerned with what CPF members can afford when pricing this light    . That includes me. :mecry: :mecry: :mecry: 
:thinking: But I do have some bigs jobs coming up this Summer, so we will see.  :naughty:
:thinking: There is still the group buy X factor for price if one happens.

I also think you underestimate the amount of R&D that went into the creation of the tiny ballast and other new features in the Helios. 
Look at the Beast and Reva and their square boxes. 
That is missing in the Helios.

Over the years I have helped several companies in different industries with product testing and design modification (My current mountain bike is one of only 5 in existence, SWEET RIDE). When re-tooling is involved, it is amazing how fast costs go up. Those costs have to be recouped. The Helios is not a simple mod of an existing product. The Helios is a competely new product that hopefully still keeps the best of the old( The Polarion reflector/bulb combo.).

As always, these are my speculations and opinions and time will tell.
But, my speculations are based on a bit of past experience in similar areas.
Does that mean I am right? NO, it just explains my reasoning for my thinking.
Time will tell.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## Finrod (Apr 20, 2006)

Gentlemen, may I suggest playing hard-to-get? Excessive enthusiasm and mournful pining, expressed repeatedly in desperate tones, is already bidding up the price.




shh. you're being watched and theres no way you can shine a light into "their" calculating eyes.


----------



## Solomon MK2 (Apr 20, 2006)

To tell you the truth, I'm not too concerned about pricing...

Although I won't be able to justify buying a light that is in the $1500 category, I think we all know that technology is always innovated upon, and we from release, we probably don't even have to wait 6 months for something that's just as good, but which we can purchase for under $1000!!!  

Then competitors are going to come out of the woodwork, offering us lower pricing, more features, etc. But that's the beauty of doing business.  

If I can't afford the Night Ops, it just gives me an excuse to save up some money for a few months, and then see what the market has to offer. Not a bad thing, IMHO.  

Solomon


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## mtbkndad (Apr 20, 2006)

Finrod,

Good point, Stratawho Heliwhat? 



Solomon MK2,
I like your point too since their is always a price to be paid for being one of the first to get something.
Even from a manufacturing perspective any time I have been part of negotiations with a manufacturer the first two questions have nearly always been something like this-
ME- How much will these be per unit?
Manufacturer- How many units will you commit to?

From the beginning of my posts on this subject in another thread I have mentioned that I thought the only real competitors for the Helios are the Beast and forthcoming, and more then likely more expensive, Mini-Beast.
That way anything under their price points would be an improvement to me.
We still do not know what the price will be, but that is how my thinking has been going in this matter.

I will add one more point to the pricing issue.
I really do not think the government is paying the roughly $6,500 per Hellfire that we would need to pay to get one.
The government is more then likely not buying one at a time.
Nearly every web site I go to that deals with government agencies also has special pricing for those agencies. That means the "retail price" will have to also take into account the volume discounts for government and other agencies.

Ultimately the group buy price will be the price that matters if there is a group buy. 

I also know that if I can afford to get a Helios it will not replace my ELX-6's and the Stunner I have coming. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## Solomon MK2 (Apr 21, 2006)

mtbkndad,

I think you've hit the nail on the head!

If you want to be one of the first to own a Helios, (or anything for that matter) then expect to pay a premium for it.

When you buy a brand new car, and drive it out of the show room, it automatically loses 15% of it's value. Everything that isn't classified as an investment (i.e. shares, real estate, paintings, etc) is going to depreciate and lose it's value over a very short time frame.

*So, WHY be first in line for a Helios???*

Because you want to show it off of course!  

But is the joy in showing it off for a few short months (before everyone else get's their hands on something similiar) worth it? :candle: 

No one here nows what the price is going to be. If there is a GB, and it's at a substantial discount... well, then it might be worth seriously considering.

Of course, the government is going to get *fantastic* pricing. In fact, those government quotations that you mentioned... I'm betting that there is plenty of room for large government departments to negotiate.

I wouldn't be suprised if the SureFire Hellfire is purchased by the US military for less than $2,000 per unit. 

Let's face it. How much does it actually cost for Surefire to produce a Hellfire? Probably not a whole lot more than it costs a modder here to do a HID conversion on a Costco! 

Here's how it works (and this is all conjecture btw). Surefire gets contracts from the military to produce a heck of a lot of flashlights - it's their "bread and butter" business. Surefire makes a modest profit margin (probably about 30% - 50% gross margin).

The military works with Surefire, so they can design exactly what they need to a specification. Since every job is a custom job, Surefire probably gets the US military (which really has too much money for it's own good) to pay for most of the tooling and setup costs. Surefire makes money out of every unit they produce from the very first unit.

Part of the deal is that Surefire has the credibility and can use the US military's endorsement, "hey we produce flashlights that are used by the US armed special forces, etc..."

This is actually their "setup" to charge the general public about 200% more than they do the military - the "iceing on the cake!!"

I'm certain that Surefire would charge the public 6 figures for a 35w HID, if they thought they could get away with it. But they wouldn't dare charge the military that much - that business is their lifeblood!

BTW: I'm not putting down Surefire here, I have a couple of their expensive lights, and love them.  


Solomon


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## mtbkndad (Apr 21, 2006)

Solomon MK2 ,

I agree in principle with what you are saying, but think the discount for Hellfire's would likely be more in the $6,000- $4,000's range depending on quantities.
This is just my guessing.

You are also right about the Helios and being one of the first to own one.
At the same time, if Strategos or Polarion take a military only policy with the light then a one time group buy would be a very valuable opportunity.
Oops there I go again Finrod, putting ideas into the minds of Strategos and Polarion
 .
I also do not think prices will drop quite as fast as you hope. If these were LED's then yes, but not HID's.

I contemplated getting a Beast when they were available, but really do not like the way they look. For the $2,800+ Beast price I would really need to like EVERYTHING about the light.
So far I do like everything about the Helios and am certainly hoping the "less then the competition" will be low enough for me to get one. 

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


----------



## NewBie (Apr 22, 2006)

Is this the same asian light that you can buy by the crate for quite a bit under 400 dollars?

Whats really up with this new price increase?


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## mtbkndad (Apr 22, 2006)

NewBie,

This would not be the same light since this one is not on the market yet.
There has been no new price increase since no price has been set yet. 

We are just speculating. 

I am not sure what light you are referring to, but the closest one I could think of would be the X990.

For sheer light ouput the X990 does holds it's own quite well against a Polarion, or any other 35 watt HID. This is particularly true when you take into acount it's price and size.
However it is not waterproof and does not have the other features mentioned in this thread that are unique to the Helios.
The X990 also is rather large and heavy in comparison to a Helios.

If you know of another small HID that can be bought by the crateload for well under $400 then by all means start a thread about it so we can get some. 

The way I see it is the Helios is the Strategos/Polarion answer to those who want an alternative to the Surefire Beast, like ME  .

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## GhostReaction (Apr 23, 2006)

At $$1.5k$$ that would price me out as well, maybe... unless I won the lottery 

Hopefully I could afford a Helios sometime in 2008 when the price drop slightly.
I wouldnt be suprised if some CPF custom modders here are able to produce a compact HID with simillar power in nice knurled body and finned headed mag. You got to admit it that we do have HID "Mac"gician" here in CPF:nana:


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## Solomon MK2 (Apr 26, 2006)

Bump... do we have anything new on this light??


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## mtbkndad (Apr 27, 2006)

Solomon MK2 said:


> Bump... do we have anything new on this light??



I figure waiting till the week of May 15th would be reasonable since that would be one week after Ken's original time table.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## EricMack (Apr 27, 2006)

GhostReaction said:


> At $$1.5k$$ that would price me out as well, maybe... unless I won the lottery
> 
> Hopefully I could afford a Helios sometime in 2008 when the price drop slightly.
> I wouldnt be suprised if some CPF custom modders here are able to produce a compact HID with simillar power in nice knurled body and finned headed mag. You got to admit it that we do have HID "Mac"gician" here in CPF:nana:


 
He He, 10-4 to that, GR. I just got one of Mac's Minis last night, and sure, its not 35W, maybe a little less than half that, but  is that light bright, as well as just being cool as :devil:


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## cue003 (May 9, 2006)

Hope we can get some sort of update soon.

Curtis


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## Solomon MK2 (May 9, 2006)

cue003 said:


> Hope we can get some sort of update soon.
> 
> 
> Curtis


 
... and I thought you were posting the update! :naughty: 

Just realised that the Wolfeyes 3400 looks a lot like the Beast, (similiar form factor & 35w) but only costs $800...

If the Polarion is way overpriced, at least we have viable alternatives, right?

Solomon


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## GhostReaction (May 9, 2006)

But the wolfeyes croc1 did quite badly in the superlight shootout 



Solomon MK2 said:


> ... and I thought you were posting the update! :naughty:
> 
> Just realised that the Wolfeyes 3400 looks a lot like the Beast, (similiar form factor & 35w) but only costs $800...
> 
> ...


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## Lunarmodule (May 9, 2006)

Polarion has some AWESOME lights available.....

Curtis, its up to you, or here is putting out a call to arms for anyone to step forward and contact Polarion about organizing a group buy for any of these drop dead gorgeous 35W HID models.

x'


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## Solomon MK2 (May 9, 2006)

Lunarmodule,

Those are nice looking lights!

I like the model in picture no.1, the light in the second pic looks ok also, but reminds me of a dive light for some reason...

Hey, almost forgot. Congratulations! I hear that you decided to buy a MaxaBeam. At some stage, I was going to buy one too, but then the SuperNova managed to sate my thirst for for a thrower (at least temporarily!)

Warmest Regards,
Solomon


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## Lunarmodule (May 9, 2006)

Aloha Solomon,

Great to see you around so much! I havent looked at this thread in a long time, mostly to help deal with the impatience of waiting for what looks like my dream HID. If you go way back to the beginning of this thread you will likely see my rampant enthusiasm for this upcoming release. I just checked Polarion's website on a whim and was totally flabbergasted with what I saw there, totally Buck Rogers designs for all varieties of 35W HID, including a knockout 10W metal halide HID and 75W short arc xenon light. Turns out they make a carbon copy of the Maxabeam too, I should have waited!! PLus a Buck Rogers 75W short arc light. Someone from CPF should reach out to these folks and set up a buying channel for these incredible products. I presume KumKang is the parent company and this is a kind of spin off or something, but one thing is for sure: the body design of the Helios is 100% Polarion. Many of the designs listed on the products page look totally futuristic, the 35W "clothes iron" model introduced some months ago is a snooze compared to the other things listed there.

I must say, Solomon, the SuperNova turned my whole interest in lights on its ear! I've become so enamored with the characteristics of the short arc light that words arent sufficient. I used to think metal halide HID was the cats meow for high output demands, but the SuperNova has changed all that. The short arc xenon is far superior to metal halide HID in quality not quantity of light. Metal halide HID creates a gargantuan quantity of light, and who fails to be impressed by that, at least for a while, until you sample the super-collimated tight short arc xenon beam. Absolutely pure even ghostly white in color with uncanny definition at tight focus. I used to regard the MB as woefully overpriced and inefficient (lumens/watt) compared to metal halide, NOW I know the short arc xenon secret and it has made it my outstanding preference. I cant thank you enough for this amazing light!

Back OT: is there anyone who wants to try to open a channel directly to Polarion to discuss availability of these other incredible designs???

Here's Polarions Maxacopy:


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## Ken J. Good (May 9, 2006)

Update:
The Helios will be a Polarian product with limited distribution at this point. 

Strategos International will be the initial dealer but not the exclusive dealer. Additional dealers and distribution points added later. All U.S. sales will go through Strategos until then. 

I have been quoted a maximum MSRP of $1595 with a reasonable probability of that MSRP going down to some degree. If and when that occurs, I will update everybody.

If folks on this board want to get a group buy going, I can offer an excellent pre-order price discount that you should be pleased with. Please understand you will have to keep it out of the public domain, or I will have to rescind the offer. If you try to go direct to Polarian, you will be referred back to Strategos on this.

You can directly email me: [email protected].

Production units will be available within 60 days.

*mtbkndad:*
You may want to go back your original post and rename it: Polarian Helios....:naughty: 

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good
Strategos International LLC
http://strategosintl.com


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## mtbkndad (May 9, 2006)

*Re: Night-Ops Helios -- Now Polarion Helios!*

Ken,

Thanks for the info.

I will change the thread title if the software allows me to  . 
That price seems very nice and a lower private group buy price will be great.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## Solomon MK2 (May 9, 2006)

nice update!


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## mtbkndad (May 9, 2006)

*Re: Helios -- Now Polarion Helios!*

I was just thinking.

Withe the Beast II around $4,800 that leaves plenty of room for the Mini-Beast to be well into the $3,000 range. I think the Helios is priced very well. If Polarion can go lower they will sell more, but may have to lower the price of the orignal model Polarion a bit.
Just my thoughts and attempt to post a post that will change the title of this thread.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## picard (May 9, 2006)

Is polarion rechargeable?


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## mtbkndad (May 9, 2006)

*Polarion Helios*



picard said:


> Is polarion rechargeable?



NO, you use it once and then throw it away!   

Actually, yes and I believe something was mentioned about a charging cradle and extra batteries somewhere.

Take Care,
mtbkndad :wave:


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## cue003 (May 9, 2006)

Great update indeed.

Curtis


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## Ken J. Good (May 9, 2006)

The Helios has a Lithium Ion rechargeable battery.

I am told, it will run 104 minutes. Testing on production units will tell the tale.

I have only played with the protos and should have pre-production samples in hand in 6-weeks.

As far as a group buy.
Some have already contacted me and want to trade for stuff etc. 

I am not interested in trading for other lights, components, old cars or ex-girl friends. :thumbsdow 

Continue to email me, I will put you on the list and communicate with you as things develop.

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good
Strategos International LLC
http://strategosintl.com


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## Flea Bag (May 10, 2006)

Is there some sort of spedification sheet somewhere? Length, diameter, weight et cetera?


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## Ken J. Good (May 10, 2006)

See: http://www.strategosstore.com/product.asp?0=893&1=1220&3=7240

For now.

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good
Strategos International LLC
http://strategosintl.com


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## cmacclel (May 10, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> I am not interested in trading for other lights, components, old cars or ex-girl friends. :thumbsdow
> 
> 
> Respectfully,
> ...




Okay Okay I'll give you the Wife and the X-girlfriend 

Mac


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## Flea Bag (May 10, 2006)

Thanks Ken...

Looking at the page, I was wonderring if the dimensions were accurate. 

5 inch diameter head, 4 inch tail and 12 inch body are rounded figures. It also makes the light quite a bit larger than I expected, thus not as portable as I hoped.

It's still a tempting prospect though. A big, smooth reflector is likely to point toward a decent amout of throw as opposed to SureFire's strippled reflectors as seen on the Beast.


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## Ken J. Good (May 10, 2006)

Those are the dimensions.

I am tyring to shrink all the power down to a executive-sized light...Maybe next iteration?


Ken J. Good
Strategos International LLC
http://strategosintl.com


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## MorpheusT1 (May 10, 2006)

Looking good!



This may have been answered before but i`ll hang my neck out there and ask anyway.


Will this light have 2 levels of light?
Instant restrike?
Warmup time? Or instant on?


Thanks,
Benny


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## Ken J. Good (May 11, 2006)

This release will be "standard" in the regard:

- 1 Level of light
- Warm-up Required.
- You can restrike it quickly once it warmed up.

Ken J. Good


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## MorpheusT1 (May 12, 2006)

Thanks for the info 




Benny


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## London (May 13, 2006)

Lunarmodule. the link between Polarion and the US is here! what can we do for you? We are a dealer and currently have the PXM35P1 in the house. Most of the other models are concepts that may someday find themselves being produced in quantity with sufficient interest. (except for the Helios which Strategos is bringing to us shortly).

I got a chance to play with a Helios proto last week and its VERY cool but the TSA goons damaged it during their "inspection" and it's now broken. I love the rotating switch. rumor has it the handle may be a replaceable/removeable part for versatilty.


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## BVH (May 19, 2006)

Ken, is the main photo on your pre-order site the final cosmetic design of the helios? I've seen so many cosmetically different versions, it would be nice to see the final product.


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## Ken J. Good (May 21, 2006)

BVH, got your PM & Email...Will get back to you shortly.
A look in the window....

Here are the latest body cosmetic changes ~ pre-anodized aluminium:












Other than that...nothing going on....:naughty:


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## baltor (May 21, 2006)

so correct me if I'm wrong - is the entire body and handle HAA? Very cool if it is. I thought I remembered reading something a few pages back about a plastic handle. Looks great!


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## Ken J. Good (May 23, 2006)

Body & Handle.

Aircraft Grade Aluminum - Type III Hard Ano

Ken J. Good
Strategos International LLC
http://strategosintl.com


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## flashfan (May 23, 2006)

Wow, what a beaut!

Now where did I put that winning lottery ticket...sigh...


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## larryk (May 24, 2006)

Looks like there taking pre-orders, $ 1595.00

http://www.strategosstore.com/product.asp?0=893&1=1220&3=7240


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## nrm (May 27, 2006)

This is my first post. I always thought I was "strange" having a love of flashlights. I'm really glad to find this group - just a few days ago.


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## XeRay (May 27, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> Body & Handle.
> 
> Aircraft Grade Aluminum - Type III Hard Ano


 
What alloy number is the aircraft grade aluminum? There are many of them, which one do they use? They all have different strength, hardness and corrosion resistance characteristics. Some are also annealed for improved strength or hardness properties.


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## XeRay (Jun 9, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> Body & Handle. Aircraft Grade Aluminum - Type III Hard Ano. Ken J. Good Strategos International LLC





XeRay said:


> What alloy number is the aircraft grade aluminum? There are many of them, which one do they use? They all have different strength, hardness and corrosion resistance characteristics. Some are also annealed for improved strength or hardness properties.


 
*BUMP*


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## batman (Jun 9, 2006)

Helios's only forseeable competition - the Surefire "Mini-Beast" as it's being called on CPF - gets a verbal refusal of existance by surefire customer service as of June 7th, 2006. The guy said there are no designs in the SF pipelines that haven't already been announced. I find it a stretch to make a guess on it's amount of watts,output, price etc. after he said that. That could however be standard operating procedures for call center technicians. I can's wait to get a helios in my hands to disorient those midnight burglars.


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## TENMMIKE (Jun 9, 2006)

XeRay said:


> What alloy number is the aircraft grade aluminum? There are many of them, which one do they use? They all have different strength, hardness and corrosion resistance characteristics. Some are also annealed for improved strength or hardness properties.


 annealing softens and relieves stress ,it does not add hardness or strength in fact it becomes VERY soft,strength is done by the other heat treatment process. known as "artifical aging" ( holding alum at a temp much lower then the soulution treatment process) and "solution heat treatment"(various forms of quenching) these are identified by the numbers after the "T" such as 7075 t6xxx, annealed is identified by the "O" designation


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## XeRay (Jun 9, 2006)

I oversimplified my statement, annealing is done before shaping (bending) so that it is not damaged before hardening. This must be done before hardening occurs.

Thanks for helping to clarify the details.


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## Ken J. Good (Jun 15, 2006)

All,

In order to honor the orginial offer of a Group Buy for CPF's please see: http://polarion-store.com

Xousia Systems Group is the official U.S. Distributor of the Polarion Helios. 

If you want to take advantage of a pre-production / pre-order discount, you can enter "CPFHELIOS" as a discount coupon during the check out procedure.

This offer is only good through July 1st. This is for CPF members only for a limited time.

The discount is for $395 off the MSPR of $1595.

Expect delivery of the first production Helios lights within 3-4 weeks.

For those of you using credit cards:
Your credit card will be verified, then your card will not be charged until the product ships to your location. When it ships you will be notified by email with tracking information.

If you choose to pay by PayPal, check, or wire-transfer then those funds will be held by Xousia and the product will ship to you when it arrives from Polarion.

Expect images of the final variant and any improved specification information as I obtain it.

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good


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## cue003 (Jun 15, 2006)

Good news indeed. What does the light come with? Does it come in a case or in a ziplock bag with a post-it.  

I see from the spec sheet that it has filters, reflectors, bulbs etc available but I didn't see extra batteries, charging options.

Would we get any special discount on the additional accessories as well. That would be nice and I would be in for a filter (glass protector), extra battery and 12V car charger.

Curtis


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## nrm (Jun 15, 2006)

Thank you VERY much for this offer. I really look forward to receiving this excellent light.

As a newer member, I appreciate what you are doing for the group!


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2006)

It worked! I shouldn't have done it but I couldn't resist!

Ken do you know if it uses the same lamp and battery as the Polarion? (And thank you very much for this great deal!)

OK, who has the lowest order number? (They may not all be Helios orders?)

Mine is #22


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## Ken J. Good (Jun 15, 2006)

All replacement parts will be listed shortly.
Pricing? TBD.

I will be shipping these lights with Pelican type cases.

I am told the light will ship with a 12V vehicle adapter.

I know the battery is unique to this model of Polarion. The lamp may be compatible with their previous release. Don't quote me on that because this light has already undergone some intermal improvements on the ballast end of the equation since the first proto was in my hand.

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good


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## BVH (Jun 15, 2006)

Thanks for the info, Ken. The case is a nice extra!

"Oh-shoot" on the different battery. Oh well, guess I may have a Polarion battery to sell shortly.


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## cue003 (Jun 15, 2006)

Good info Ken, thank you very much. I am going to order some accessories (extra battery and lens protector) as well so I guess it will show up as separate orders for me. Hopefully this won't be too confusing. I also hope we don't get charged for shipping 2 times. 

Thanks again for putting this together.

Curtis


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## XeRay (Jun 15, 2006)

Any word on the aluminum alloy number?


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## Ken J. Good (Jun 16, 2006)

No word on the specific Alloy.

I asked...I will ask again. I do believe it will be slightly harder than 2 sheets of aluminum foil... 

On the store - For those of you that recently ordered:

So you know in case you did not get my emails, I voided all transactions.
You need to run them again as I did not have the proper fields activated in the store interface to capture the data I need to re-run your card at later date when the lights arrive for delivery.

I apologize for the inconvienience. Please be patient as I work out all the processes. 

I am currenly in Paris, France and have limited time/access to the Internet.

As far as shipping the accessories, don't worry I will get you the replacement parts you need. If you orded light before I had this stuff up and listed, I will ship them to you at no cost if you remind me at the time of your next order.

Best to everybody.

Ken J. Good


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2006)

Ok, re-ordered. Now #24.


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## cue003 (Jun 16, 2006)

Ok, re-ordered, Now #25

Thanks.

Curtis


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## BVH (Jun 16, 2006)

Hmmmm...I think NRM is one ahead of us on the original order!


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## NewBie (Jun 17, 2006)

Where is the official warranty for this light posted at?


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## BVH (Jun 20, 2006)

Anyone else order one of these beauties?


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## AlanH (Jun 20, 2006)

Trying to, just waiting for the shipping quote. That and to make sure there is no 'End User Certificate' requirment or something daft

Alan


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## Ken J. Good (Jun 23, 2006)

AlanH - I am sorry I did not get to you earlier. Been in Europe on a "Night-Ops" trip. Delivery cost approx $95 to the U.K.

Warrantee: http://www.polarion-store.com/return_polices.cfm

I will be able to address additional questions and provide more information when I return next week. Internet access for me has been intermitent.


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## BVH (Jun 24, 2006)

Darn double post!


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## BVH (Jun 24, 2006)

Ken, I read and understand the return/warrantee process you linked to. It sounds more like a return policy than a warrantee. Is the warrantee therefore 30 days?


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## MSI (Jun 24, 2006)

BVH, I think you need to learn how to operate that scrollbar  If you had scrolled you would have read further down on the page that it has a 1 year warranty.


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## BVH (Jun 25, 2006)

Whats a scroll bar??? None of that other stuff was there when I first went there.


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## cue003 (Jun 29, 2006)

How much longer? I am itching for it..... 

Curtis


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 6, 2006)

x...Double Post


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 6, 2006)

Talked to Polarion Today:
Expecting units in my hand in 2 weeks or less.

Going with Black Type III Hard Ano on the Aluminum for initial production runs.

Couple of functional updates:

The Helios will not be a 35W light. It will be a 40W kicking out in the neighborhood of 4,000 lumens.

It looks the handle will be a molded plastic.

There will be 2 versions of the Helios. One with a handle and one without.

I will assign models numbers for the differentiation shortly on www.polarion-store.com No price difference at this point.

No charge in place cradle yet. We are going to delay anymore to get this light out waiting for it.

Future option at this point.
 
There will be a LCD battery power indicator in the back end base that will illuminate for 10 seconds when the light is powered up.

If any of this changes those who pre-ordered, no problem, just let me know. 
Here are a couple of “naked” pictures of the Helios


















Respectfully,

Ken J. Good


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## cue003 (Jul 6, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> Talked to Polarion Today:
> Expecting units in my hand in 2 weeks or less.
> 
> Respectfully,
> ...



If we opt for the version WITH the handle, will it be a removable handle or permanent?

Great update. 

Curtis


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 6, 2006)

It will not be removeable as far as I am aware, unless of course you cut it off flush. 

Ken


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## cue003 (Jul 6, 2006)

Can you take some pictures of the light being held? That would help me visualize the size and determine if I want the handle or not.

Maybe even some shots next to other known size lights would be ideal.

Thanks.

Curtis


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 6, 2006)

Will do when I get the actual production lights in my hand here in the States.
These photos were taken in Korea.

I have a msg in to determine if both configurations (handle/no-handle) will be available immediately.

Ken J. Good
http://polarion-store.com


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## BVH (Jul 7, 2006)

Ken, will the back end base unscrew to allow removal of the battery for charging via a wall wart or will there be a hole and plug through which the wall wart cable can be inserted? Or maybe i've completely missed the boat? How do we know when its fully charged? The LCD or an LED?

The extra 5 Watts is greatly appreciated. Don't forget to change the lumens number on your store page. It says 3000.


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## cue003 (Jul 7, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> Will do when I get the actual production lights in my hand here in the States.
> These photos were taken in Korea.
> 
> I have a msg in to determine if both configurations (handle/no-handle) will be available immediately.
> ...



Thanks Ken. I will wait till some final production type pictures are available before I make final decision to move forward or withdraw. I will also be paying attention to the final production specs as well.

I appreciate the updates.

Curtis


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## BVH (Jul 9, 2006)

Ken, I've waited (without complaining  ) more than a year for the USL and close to a year for a Nano. I'd really like a cradle charging system and don't mind waiting even if it adds 2, 3 or more months.


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## cue003 (Jul 9, 2006)

I will agree with BVH. As complete as freaking possible is what i say. If 2 more months gets us that then so be it. At this price point it should be that and nothing less. 

Curtis


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 9, 2006)

I don't make it. I request in earnest, lobby, beg...and the manufacturer has the ultimate say. I wanted charge-in place via cradle; was told cradle charge all the way until the release. Didn't happen.

This version of the Helios will be re-charged in one of two ways.

a. Leave the battery in the light, and plug in the charger through a port in the base of the flashlight.

b. Take the battery out or take the 2nd battery and recharge it outside the light.

Price point, features, which drives the buying decision will ultimately be your choice of course. 

Wait if you must.

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good


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## nrm (Jul 9, 2006)

Ken - Thanks for staying on top of this issue.

I don't have a problem with a separate charger but I would like to hear from some of you why a cradle would be better.





I really care more whether or not it will have the handle. However, at this point, I don't know if I WANT the handle or DO NOT want the handle. I think I lean toward having the handle but pictures will probably help me decide.

Thanks again.


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## BVH (Jul 9, 2006)

Ken, any info from the manufacturer on whether it might be 2 months or 10 months or, before they release it with the cradle?


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 10, 2006)

Hard to say really.
This is what I think will drive it...Numbers.

I believe if the light line is moving forward in terms of sufficient sales, the more willing the manufacturer will be to invest additional engineering and manufacturing resources to modifying/upgrading/adding features.

An insight on the obvious here: It costs money and time to do more. In this case I am asking the manufacture to invest more of both.

It is a relationship that has to be cultivated over time.

Just being honest and giving you as much detail as appropriate.

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 21, 2006)

*UPDATE:*
Had a few more questions answered today:

1. I will have a full production sample in hand being sent to me on next Tues, July 25th. I am having it sent to the location I will be training some Naval Special Warfare folks at on the East Coast. I will get some night time operational pictures of it with Special Boat Team if possible.

2. I will have the 40W Helios ready for delivery when I return from that training trip 1st week in August. Initial units will come with Integrated Handles.

3. I will have Units without the Handle scheduled for delivery the last week in August.

4. The Helios will be manufactured with Drop-in Cradle charger in mind so that when the charger is ready for delivery, there will be backwards compatibility. In other words, lights obtained now can be used in the drop-in charger that is coming down the pike. No cost or delivery date has been set for this charger. More to follow obviously.

5. There will be attachment points integrated into the light for lanyard or sling attachment. Whole drilled in the handle, attachment point in the cooling fins area.

6. Not to confuse the issue, but there are several finishes that will be offered in the future. 

7. I am in process of developing a small carrying floatable accessory backpack for maritime applications.


Oh by the way…This light is going to rock!


Respectfully,

Ken J. Good
www.polarion-store.com


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## cue003 (Jul 21, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> *UPDATE:*
> Had a few more questions answered today:
> 
> 
> ...



Color me very interested in #6 and #7.

Thanks for the update Ken. Looking forward to seeing those pics. Really wondering how hard it will be to utilize the light without the handle. Also interested to see the mount points for the "sling" attachment. Wonder if it will be front and back of the light.

Thanks

Curtis


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## BVH (Jul 21, 2006)

The future charging cradle backward compatibility is perfect. I'll want a unit without the handle and am most curious to see the finishes available - or is that way down the line and not an option for us at this point?


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## cue003 (Jul 26, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> *UPDATE:*
> Had a few more questions answered today:
> 
> 1. I will have a full production sample in hand being sent to me on next Tues, July 25th. I am having it sent to the location I will be training some Naval Special Warfare folks at on the East Coast. I will get some night time operational pictures of it with Special Boat Team if possible.
> ...



Ken, did your sample show up?

Anxiously awaiting your findings.

Thanks

Curtis


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## blahblahblah (Jul 26, 2006)

http://polarion-store.com/files/Helios-Specifications.pdf

On page 2 of the spec sheet in the top left, the bulb specs state 3400 lumens. On the rest of the page, in 2 other locations, the specs state 4000 lumens.

Out of curiosity, which is it?


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 26, 2006)

Whoops...4,000 is the correct number.

The lower figure was based on the original ballast of 35W.

The new figure is based on the new ballast of 40W. I did not catch the fact that I overlooked the 3rd figure...When I return from this trip, I will fix the spec sheet.

On the phone today with the folks at Polarion. The sample is supposed to be in my hands by tomorrow evening. I have my digital camera with me and will snap some pics.


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## blahblahblah (Jul 27, 2006)

Ken J. Good said:


> ...The sample is supposed to be in my hands by tomorrow evening. I have my digital camera with me and will snap some pics.


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## seery (Jul 27, 2006)

Is it evening time yet?


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## Ken J. Good (Jul 27, 2006)

Thread continues here:

http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=1520714#post1520714

Respectfully,

Ken J. Good
http://polarion-store.com


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