# Surefire tactician



## teak

Well it seems this is going to production. At first I could care less. However the final appears to have an e Series body and the lanyard loop. Twisty tailcap. I would have liked to see the reintroduction of the 2 stage tailcap. However, a twisty is doable for me. Low is achieved by loosening the head. The best part is it appears to be using the maxvision beam! Price my be around 150. I wasn't going to get one but now I will. Tactical response has them listed in thier page for 150. Not available yet.


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## leon2245

Ooooh yeah I am 100% in on this. 

Love the head position for hi/lo. Can leave it in either position & treat it as a single mode vs. cycle-thru or staged tailcap. Like the old nitecore multi task & their klarus equivalents. Can't pre order yet. I'll only start to believe this is happening when they know they have some incoming.


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## teak

leon2245 said:


> Ooooh yeah I am 100% in on this.
> 
> Love the head position for hi/lo. Can leave it in either position & treat it as a single mode vs. cycle-thru or staged tailcap. Like the old nitecore multi task & their klarus equivalents. Can't pre order yet. I'll only start to believe this is happening when they know they have some incoming.


Yes, we all know surefire will talk something up and never release it. Time will tell. Lol


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## bykfixer

I'm in


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## Daniel_sk

Are there any recent news about it? (except the three youtube videos)
Edit: Sorry, I didn't completely read the first post.


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## Daniel_sk

Here is actually a new video about (September 18):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TVC-x86Yg4


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## mk2rocco

I'm in! Love that UI


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## ven

Thats looks pretty awesome, a Surefire that has my interest at last.


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## teak

Yes that's the latest video from Yeager. I'm just glad to see it isn't another damn clicky single mode. I know Yeager wanted a twisty tailcap so atleast they listened. I still would have like to have seen the 2 stage tailcap from the a2, l1 lx2 etc days. I'm also glad it isn't tir! 700 lumens from a reflector is going to be nice. 7 lumen low is ok. I'll be preordering if and when it comes


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## KentuckyMike

At 2:19 when he hits the momentary, it sure looks awfully cool. Hard to tell on camera, but.... I know, I know, it's built as a tac light, temp shouldn't matter, and even if it did, cool should probably be preferred...but dammit, I'm becoming a snob.  Who am I kidding, I'm probably still in. (I'll probably play with it for a week and then take a bath on it in the BST.)


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## arKmm

Just had a look at the videos, this is a great development by Surefire and Yaeger. Everything on it seems so well thought out.


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## teak

KentuckyMike said:


> At 2:19 when he hits the momentary, it sure looks awfully cool. Hard to tell on camera, but.... I know, I know, it's built as a tac light, temp shouldn't matter, and even if it did, cool should probably be preferred...but dammit, I'm becoming a snob.  Who am I kidding, I'm probably still in. (I'll probably play with it for a week and then take a bath on it in the BST.)


Lol! Yes you and me both. I'll get it and say yeah it isn't bad, then go back to am A2! [emoji38]


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## Slumber

KentuckyMike said:


> Who am I kidding, I'm probably still in. (I'll probably play with it for a week and then take a bath on it in the BST.)



I'll be circling over the BST like a vulture waiting to scavenge yours or Teak's Tactician. [emoji16]


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## Modernflame

I saw Yeager's preliminary videos about this light earlier in the planning phase. I really like it, even though it offers little advantage over my current Elzetta set up. If this user interface were to replace the tap, double tap UI of the current Fury line (et al), I would be a Surefire customer again. 

Perhaps someday they will offer a choice of beam tint?


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## leon2245

I'd be using a defender shrouded tailcap for tailstandability, or custom unshrouded click for pure luxury ease of momentary / clicking-on. Instead of the tactical twist/ momentary only button.

Please make this happen. I'll surefire honk in every thread if they do it.


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## mk2rocco

I was thinking the same thing, this light with an LX2 clip and a clicky would be a great edc


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## kyhunter1

I like this light and its clip config as is. The only thing that would make it better for me would be 18650 capability. Surefire themselves will not do this with the E series. It is tactically correct in all aspects. This will not be favorable for everybody just looking for another edc light.


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## Daniel_sk

Let’s hope for at least 16650 support - Keeppower have 2500 mAh which isn’t that bad.


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## Modernflame

If the 16650 posts decent run time figures, I will be buying this light.


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## Daniel_sk

Yes, I am also waiting for 16650 compatibility (the runtimes should be good as long as the flashlight is OK with the lower voltage).
Surefire has also registered the "TACTICIAN" trademark recently https://trademarks.justia.com/875/55/tactician-87555416.html, so the name is probably official.


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## vadimax

I wish there would be a forward clicky tail cap as well.


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## leon2245

Well that will be easy enough, it will be e tail compatible right?


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## vadimax

leon2245 said:


> Well that will be easy enough, it will be e tail compatible right?



I guess this should be interpreted as “no”:


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## WebHobbit

Heh...I suggested he should have Malkoff make the light in the comment section of a couple of his videos. I tried to tell him how the new Surefires aint like the old ones and have GLUED on heads. Everyone totally ignored me.


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## KentuckyMike

vadimax said:


> I guess this should be interpreted as “no”: ...



My first reaction was to say this seems shortsighted, but I think it’s rather part of a well-planned effort to end consumer-level LEGO’ing of their lights. This one, in particular, but really all their lights, are designed for a specific purpose. Given the loss of government contracts, I’m surprised we haven’t seen more of a pivot toward the Flasaholic market, but I don’t think we’ll see that after a decade of market strategy moving away from us. To Surefire’s mind, and, I’m sure, Yeager’s, this light is perfect for its purpose and no mods are needed or desirable. As someone pointed out above, the market this was made for doesn’t play LEGO or white-wall hunt, so I don’t think we should be too surprised at the lack of interchangeability.


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## WebHobbit

I see your point KentuckyMike but SF doesn't really make them as bombproof anymore do they? Malkoff's superior potting jobs would seem to play to the Military/Police market.



edit: spelling


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## KentuckyMike

WebHobbit said:


> I see your point KentuckyMike but SF doesn't really make them as bombproof anymore do they? Malkoff's superior putting jobs would seem to play to the Military/Police market.



I won’t argue that one bit. In fact, I’ve just finished selling off most of my SFs and building my Malkoff collection. (The last straw for me was the “end of support” for the Incan lights, but build quality, lack of Li-ion compatibility, and lack of innovation (post-PK) all fed into that.) But for this light, Yeager probably chose this format over the larger 1” to favor carryability and concealability for CCW, off-duty- and undercover. I’m sure “bombproof” and overbuilt weren’t part of the design requirements. Neither was “what will make the flashlight geeks and EDC crowd happy?” 

Unfortunately, the “glued on heads” are probably a benefit in the military and police supply world. Most of these folks need a light to make light, they aren’t repairing anything or using modular parts, and the ability for things to come apart/get lost/be reassembled incorrectly is a liability. They’ve accepted the disposable culture. We’re very much a sliver of the market, I think.


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## WebHobbit

I was just thinking there is no reason that a 'Yeager Light' couldn't be made from Malkoff's MDC host.


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## Modernflame

WebHobbit said:


> I was just thinking there is no reason that a 'Yeager Light' couldn't be made from Malkoff's MDC host.



A Malkoff MDC 16650 with a high/low ring in the head would be a direct (and superior)competitor. Unfortunately, Gene does not currently offer such a device. 

When Yeager was originally begging SF to build the tactician, I wondered why he didn't just use an Elzetta Bravo or a Malkoff MD2, which would tick nearly all of his boxes, but then I realized it's about form factor. 

The tactician is Malkoffesque, but is unique in its combination of size and features.


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## bykfixer

KentuckyMike said:


> My first reaction was to say this seems shortsighted, but I think it’s rather part of a well-planned effort to end consumer-level LEGO’ing of their lights. This one, in particular, but really all their lights, are designed for a specific purpose. Given the loss of government contracts, I’m surprised we haven’t seen more of a pivot toward the Flasaholic market, but I don’t think we’ll see that after a decade of market strategy moving away from us. To Surefire’s mind, and, I’m sure, Yeager’s, this light is perfect for its purpose and no mods are needed or desirable. As someone pointed out above, the market this was made for doesn’t play LEGO or white-wall hunt, so I don’t think we should be too surprised at the lack of interchangeability.



Eggs-Zackly!! 

Except that SureFire don't do domesticated pitbulls. 
Lot's of things changed post flashaholic engineer PK. But like Elzetta, they go for a niche market, along with a more business oriented approach.

PK had the luxury of trying stuff while SureFire gained momentum in an upcoming market. He had a flashaholic approach that eventually allowed SureFire to become a gigantic flashlight supplier through some big $ contracts, but not after many years of effort that most are not aware of. 
They take a conservative approach anymore, for a lot of reasons. And the flashion industry is not on their list of goals. Actually it never was, yet flashion decided SureFire was in vogue anyway. 

This light is going to be a winner in terms of its intended market. Bringing back some old school approach with a modern output. My first thought wasn't MD2 but an Elzetta Bones with a low setting. Only no clicky option. Pure stealth with a low output feature.


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## dano

Maxvision is horrible for any "tactical" use, and I have tried one working at night, in a law enforcement capacity. The wide, almost non-throw beam is useless. This light seems simply like a Defender, updated with an LED...Not exactly revolutionary. And since he's involved, definitely not interested.


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## Daniel_sk

Here is a close-up picture from the YT thumbnail:


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## Modernflame

dano said:


> Maxvision is horrible for any "tactical" use, and I have tried one working at night, in a law enforcement capacity. The wide, almost non-throw beam is useless. This light seems simply like a Defender, updated with an LED...Not exactly revolutionary.



I suppose it depends on the environment and the mission distance. 

The UI is the biggest update, not the emitter.


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## leon2245

Daniel_sk said:


> Here is a close-up picture from the YT thumbnail:




wait, "e2t", and I'm reading neither the tail nor head are e compatible?

aside from glue. I'm not worried about glue


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## bykfixer

dano said:


> Maxvision is horrible for any "tactical" use, and I have tried one working at night, in a law enforcement capacity. The wide, almost non-throw beam is useless.



Book em Dano. Thanks for the tip. 

I was wondering about the max vision thing, pondering a self blinder in any discernable amount of smoke or high humidity in outdoor use, or lighting me up when used indoors.

I wonder if at least there's a gap between the light and the beam from the standpoint of the other end of the beam. Some lights have a separation of what is seen from the downstream end that does not allow the torsoe of the user to be lit.




I purposely tried to mask the light so as to not cast aspersions on the company who made it.


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## mk2rocco

dano said:


> Maxvision is horrible for any "tactical" use, and I have tried one working at night, in a law enforcement capacity. The wide, almost non-throw beam is useless. This light seems simply like a Defender, updated with an LED...Not exactly revolutionary. And since he's involved, definitely not interested.


I disagree with this, but there are many pros and cons to the maxvision beam. I don't think you can say it's horrible for all "tactical" use. Stopping a group of 15 people I would love a beam pattern that let's me see everyone at once without moving my light around. I often use triples which I believe have a similar beam pattern. Also the UI is the biggest update here.


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## Modernflame

bykfixer said:


> I purposely tried to mask the light so as to not cast aspersions on the company who made it.



Not likely to get far with that, considering your audience. This should be good.


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## tech25

This is the first surefire that I am considering to buy in a long time, the ui is really nice, with two modes. 

What I am not totally enamored with is the low is too low for this reflector and the high is most probably rated down to surefires "tactical" output. I would rather a higher usable low and a lower but constant lumens (longer runtime) on high. 

Otherwise the size, floody beam and ui are perfect for edc use.


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## Modernflame

tech25 said:


> This is the first surefire that I am considering to buy in a long time, the ui is really nice, with two modes.
> 
> What I am not totally enamored with is the low is too low for this reflector and the high is most probably rated down to surefires "tactical" output. I would rather a higher usable low and a lower but constant lumens (longer runtime) on high.
> 
> Otherwise the size, floody beam and ui are perfect for edc use.



I hope this UI becomes available on other SF lights. Add in a choice of beam tint, perhaps a high CRI version, and boom, I'm a Surefire fan for the first time in a decade.


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## teak

Modernflame said:


> I hope this UI becomes available on other SF lights. Add in a choice of beam tint, perhaps a high CRI version, and boom, I'm a Surefire fan for the first time in a decade.


Yeah, that won't happen. Lol. I'm surprised they did this light. Yeager is a surefire fan for sure even though he doesn't know lights all that well. I still feel this is the best UI surefire offers now. I am not afraid to say the surefires of today are total crap! Made by people who don't use lights anymore. It's all about production. It really pains me to say that. Lol. 

As for a maxvision beam not being good for tactical use, well, it could go either way. Indoors it will be wonderful. Outdoors, well we will just have to see when they arrive.


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## tech25

Agreed, I know surefire has big contracts but this is the first innovation they have done in a while, and can get some of the flasoholics or edc crowd interested.


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## tech25

Teak, there is a video on YouTube of Yeager showing the light outdoors at about 50 yards, it does a nice job. I would like to see this light compared to a triple, elzetta and a couple of others.


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## Modernflame

I love my Elzetta Bravo, but she needs to lose weight. The SF tactician offers one advantage...form factor.


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## eh4

The name sounds Really Neat, I kinda don't want to read about it and be disappointed, plus it's going to be costly, I can tell from the "Surefire" part.


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## eh4

Daniel_sk said:


> Here is actually a new video about (September 18):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TVC-x86Yg4



pretty much a content-free video...

I'm not a SF basher.
My first serious edc light was a Surefire, and I paid a pretty penny for it too. 
I'm not a basher, but I expect better than government contract prices for quality and performance. 
I still have that light btw, and it's available to a good home for the price of a self addressed, postage paid envelope; not because I don't like it, but because I won't ever use it again and I don't just throw old tools away.


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## Modernflame

eh4 said:


> The name sounds Really Neat, I kinda don't want to read about it and be disappointed, plus it's going to be costly, I can tell from the "Surefire" part.



Ah, the fly in the ointment. She's listed for $150 on Yeager's website, but who knows what will happen when this thing hits the market. A higher price point could well put me off.


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## arKmm

This seems like something that would be perfect for an executive close protection role, or EDC alongside a sidearm. Other than that, I'd say it's usage may be limited. However, for those purposes it seems perfect


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## leon2245

eh4 said:


> pretty much a content-free video...
> 
> I'm not a SF basher.
> My first serious edc light was a Surefire, and I paid a pretty penny for it too.
> I'm not a basher, but I expect better than government contract prices for quality and performance.
> I still have that light btw, and it's available to a good home for the price of a self addressed, postage paid envelope; not because I don't like it, but because I won't ever use it again and I don't just throw old tools away.



Yes please!


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## eh4

leon2245 has dibs unless he declines. 
leon2245 check messages.


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## RobertMM

Love the form factor but not a fan of the Maxvision beam for lights other than keyring models. A reflector similar to the Malkoff M61would allow it to essentially get maybe the same reach for less output, say, 500 lumens while maintaining a flatter output curve and would make the 7 lumen low more useful.Bezel up/down reversible clip would be great.


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## Modernflame

RobertMM said:


> A reflector similar to the Malkoff M61



In a perfect world, there would be no war, violence, or death. Also, every flashlight would be made by Gene Malkoff. :thinking:


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## RobertMM

Modernflame said:


> In a perfect world, there would be no war, violence, or death. Also, every flashlight would be made by Gene Malkoff. :thinking:



LOL 
That reflector is just so satisfyingly good to use. 

Just watched the comparison video and looks like the Tactician is real handy in terms of size.


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## vadimax

Modernflame said:


> In a perfect world, there would be no war, violence, or death. Also, every flashlight would be made by Gene Malkoff. :thinking:



My MD2 still in transit. Damn!


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## flashlight nut

THIS!!!
The body is the longer L1 version. I took out the driver and Barry from Precision Works bored the shelf out so it holds 2 x cr123. I still kept the 16mm width for ruggedness. The head is a Malkoff E2ST with crenelated bezel. With the 2 stage momentary tail cap, long 2-way clip and rubber oring it is the best damn combat light I have ever owned.


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## teak

flashlight nut said:


> THIS!!!
> The body is the longer L1 version. I took out the driver and Barry from Precision Works bored the shelf out so it holds 2 x cr123. I still kept the 16mm width for ruggedness. The head is a Malkoff E2ST with crenelated bezel. With the 2 stage momentary tail cap, long 2-way clip and rubber oring it is the best damn combat light I have ever owned.


Nice! I have done this a few times with l1s. How is the low with that Head? Are you using a 16650 or primaries? Since you said holds cx123 I assume primaries but wanted to verify. Lol


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## flashlight nut

Definitely primaries. Long shelf life, slow taper and I don't have to worry about the protective circuit killing the battery with hard impacts. If I had to guess it would be about 200 lumens on low.
This is a picture of a L1 body that was bored out to 18mm after I dropped it. The tail cap with the treads inside completely detached from the body.


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## vadimax

flashlight nut said:


> Definitely primaries. Long shelf life, slow taper and I don't have to worry about the protective circuit killing the battery with hard impacts. If I had to guess it would be about 200 lumens on low.
> This is a picture of a L1 body that was bored out to 18mm after I dropped it. The tail cap with the treads inside completely detached from the body.



Sorry, that sounds evil, but I’d call it: “How to ‘improve’ a flashlight by destroying its main selling point”


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## Grizzman

While I'm not a fan of, and don't own any, of the newest generation of Surefires (well besides the E2D LED Ultras I used to own), this one has gotten my attention.

I also consider this to be catered directly to LEO/weapon use scenarios, and in this role it may be a good choice. I may watch the videos sometime to see just how effective the beam may be in real life use.


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## Hudson456

flashlight nut said:


> THIS!!!
> The body is the longer L1 version. I took out the driver and Barry from Precision Works bored the shelf out so it holds 2 x cr123. I still kept the 16mm width for ruggedness. The head is a Malkoff E2ST with crenelated bezel. With the 2 stage momentary tail cap, long 2-way clip and rubber oring it is the best damn combat light I have ever owned.





Does the 10 ohms resistor with that large current coming from the E2ST have any heat / longevity issues? Being designed for under 1000 mA originally I have hesitated to use that tail-cap with my E2ST which pulls 2.1 amps.


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## flashlight nut

I haven't had any issues at all.



Hudson456 said:


> Does the 10 ohms resistor with that large current coming from the E2ST have any heat / longevity issues? Being designed for under 1000 mA originally I have hesitated to use that tail-cap with my E2ST which pulls 2.1 amps.


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## vadimax

bykfixer said:


> Book em Dano. Thanks for the tip.
> 
> I was wondering about the max vision thing, pondering a self blinder in any discernable amount of smoke or high humidity in outdoor use, or lighting me up when used indoors.
> 
> I wonder if at least there's a gap between the light and the beam from the standpoint of the other end of the beam. Some lights have a separation of what is seen from the downstream end that does not allow the torsoe of the user to be lit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I purposely tried to mask the light so as to not cast aspersions on the company who made it.



I guess I see an Elzetta Bones with a flood lens down under. On the contrary I use my B343 most often. So in my personal experience a flood beam is most comfortable. Just a moment ago tried to light myself with that beam and I failed  In normal condition my elbow is parallel to body and my arm is looking forward. Taking into account that the beam does not go backwards I always stay in the shadow area.


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## kosPap

it is up for sale!
https://www.tacticalresponse.com/products/surefire-tactician

also, what can yuo deduct by the item code? E2T-MV


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## mk2rocco

Ordered! Thanks for the link.


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## ven

As i dont use cr123 cells, will this work with 16650's instead................4.35v. If so, it may push me over the edge


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## mk2rocco

I'm really interested in the tailcap... Looks like a new one for Surefire.


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## teak

As soon as i get the chance I'm grabbing one as Well! Hope it doesn't suck! Lol!


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## kj2

Was thinking about to pre-order at first. But I rather wait for some feedback (and reviews) from users. Plus, the international shipping is quite high. Hope it will also pop up on eBay.


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## teak

Well I preordered. We'll see what I think. Still wish it was a 2 stage tailcap.


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## Hudson456

ven said:


> As i dont use cr123 cells, will this work with 16650's instead................4.35v. If so, it may push me over the edge





I don't think anyone knows the answer to this question, but given SF's history, probably NOT. None of the newest E series lights work properly with 16650 batteries. And for all we know the battery tube might be too tight.

You and I are in the same boat, if it does work with 16650 I'm in. Until I know that I'm holding onto my money.


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## ven

Thanks Hudson, guess i will have to wait. I am hoping so, a little loss in lumens(if i get 5-600 instead of 700 i honestly dont care) due to a lower voltage 4v V 6v. My concern would be low voltage with the light........

Fingers crossed! I have quite a few 16650's in use and they work great, even work lights use them(6p/g2).


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## leon2245

E series.

Someone explain to me again, why this won't work with a click e-tailcap?! Tighten head for high, loosen for low, click for on & off. Hurry before this turns into a $229 light!


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## mk2rocco

My plan is to use a LX2 clip with a Z61 tailcap (black clicky). I'm hoping it's a good EDC in this configuration.


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## vadimax

leon2245 said:


> E series.
> 
> Someone explain to me again, why this won't work with a click e-tailcap?! Tighten head for high, loosen for low, click for on & off. Hurry before this turns into a $229 light!



I guess the thread diameter might be the issue. Or it’s stepping... It is said in the video: “They do not match” and not a word of explanation.


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## 1pt21

flashlight nut said:


> This is a picture of a L1 body that was bored out to 18mm after I dropped it. The tail cap with the treads inside completely detached from the body.



Holy hell!!! I've constantly READ about the 'possibility' of this happening when boring an e-series to fit 18mm cell, but this is certainly the first time I've SEEN it. 

I will now remove any thoughts that were in my head to have some of my e-series bored out. Hell, battery technology is so quickly advancing to the point that you really don't lose too much in going 16650 opposed to 18650. And you certainly won't lose an entire SF out of it!


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## teak

It's the same body as the e2d or atleast I assume. Don't think surefire would design a new body when they have bodies already. Id say a z61 etc will work. If you so desire. Personally I don't like clickys so this being a twisty is main reason I wanted it. That and it's an e Series. We'll see soon.


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## Hudson456

What would be really cool is if this head works with an LX2 body and switch.

This set up would give 4 distinct modes, probably 700 lumens / 250 lumens with head tightened and with the loose head 7 lumens / 2 lumens.


Ohhhhh baby..


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## WarriorOfLight

Hudson456 said:


> What would be really cool is if this head works with an LX2 body and switch.
> 
> This set up would give 4 distinct modes, probably 700 lumens / 250 lumens with head tightened and with the loose head 7 lumens / 2 lumens.


I do not think this will work. 

The intellicence of the LX2 is in the head. The tailcap only has a resistor that will be switched if the button is only half pressed. The head detects if the circuit is connected direcly or over this resistor. If the resistor is detected the LED will be powered for low. It is the same technique in the A2L, AZ2, EB1 / EB2 Tactical, UB3T, ... from my knowledge in all Surefire two state twisty lights.

But at all the E2T-MV looks very interesting. The UI is very simple and I love simple UIs. At all the light seems to be very small.


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## Hudson456

WarriorOfLight said:


> I do not think this will work.
> 
> The intellicence of the LX2 is in the head. The tailcap only has a resistor that will be switched if the button is only half pressed. The head detects if the circuit is connected direcly or over this resistor. If the resistor is detected the LED will be powered for low. It is the same technique in the A2L, AZ2, EB1 / EB2 Tactical, UB3T, ... from my knowledge in all Surefire two state twisty lights.
> 
> But at all the E2T-MV looks very interesting. The UI is very simple and I love simple UIs. At all the light seems to be very small.





The resistor itself even though it's only 10 ohms will drop the output considerably. From what I've read in various threads, using a 750 lumen Malkoff E2S (similar in output to the Tactician) the output with the LX2 resistor in line will be about 250. My guess of 7 lumens turning into 2 is just keeping that same ratio.

I have an LX2 with a Malkoff M61 in a VME head attached. The "low" mode is about half of the 320 high mode. Don't have a light sphere, just a guess.


If the LX2 body fits the new Tactician head, I don't see why the LX2 resistor wouldn't drop the output as seen with the E2S. We shall see......


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## jave-mtr

teak said:


> It's the same body as the e2d or atleast I assume. Don't think surefire would design a new body when they have bodies already. Id say a z61 etc will work. If you so desire. Personally I don't like clickys so this being a twisty is main reason I wanted it. That and it's an e Series. We'll see soon.



In the newest video on this light, James Yeager shows that a regular shrouded clicky tailcap from a Scout light works on the Tactician body. So just like you assumed, it seems to be a regular E series body.
Video here: https://youtu.be/byYVcSEzPpY?t=7m8s


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## kosPap

he also said that the light will not work with recargables. No what rechargables remains to be seen...


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## UVvis

In part I want to be excited. Really though, I have an AZ2 combatlight body with an EB2 head that does pretty much the same stuff, in a slim form factor, but I've had it for a few years.


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## leon2245

UVvis said:


> In part I want to be excited. Really though, I have an AZ2 combatlight body with an *EB2 head that does pretty much the same stuff, *in a slim form factor, but I've had it for a few years.



Yeah sounds like no need then, if this offers no improvement for your uses. ANd the above setup has it's own advantages. You'd lose its bigger & clipless but so nice combat body/ring, and your more intense spot going to this. No way would I get rid of that for this or anything, only complement if useful.

The different stuff it does, would be for those who want its wider beam and/or increased output, e-series body size head and tail, twist/momentary-only tailcap (assume you already have the c-version of this tailcap on yours), the new heavy duty clip, and most appealing to me is its new (to SF) tighten-for-high loosen-for-low UI, which is the entire reason I'm getting it. The only UI where I'd even prefer to have more than one mode.

My only question is, since they're taking preorders, do we know it's happening? Like SF is making them? Because I don't think it's unprecedented in years past where sf preorders were taken and then it still didn't happen... are they charging our cards now, or not until they ship? That would give me a better idea. I doubt they'd charge us if they weren't 100% certain it's happening.


----------



## mk2rocco

On Facebook it says they are shipping on October 27th.


----------



## teak

leon2245 said:


> Yeah sounds like no need then, if this offers no improvement for your uses. ANd the above setup has it's own advantages. You'd lose its bigger & clipless but so nice combat body/ring, and your more intense spot going to this. No way would I get rid of that for this or anything, only complement if useful.
> 
> The different stuff it does, would be for those who want its wider beam and/or increased output, e-series body size head and tail, twist/momentary-only tailcap (assume you already have the c-version of this tailcap on yours), the new heavy duty clip, and most appealing to me is its new (to SF) tighten-for-high loosen-for-low UI, which is the entire reason I'm getting it. The only UI where I'd even prefer to have more than one mode.
> 
> My only question is, since they're taking preorders, do we know it's happening? Like SF is making them? Because I don't think it's unprecedented in years past where sf preorders were taken and then it still didn't happen... are they charging our cards now, or not until they ship? That would give me a better idea. I doubt they'd charge us if they weren't 100% certain it's happening.


Yes, my card has been charged. That was done the day I ordered. 

Yes, I've heard about the 10-27 shipping date as well.


----------



## leon2245

Okay, sounds like it's a done deal.

Let's go boys!


----------



## Travis b

mk2rocco said:


> On Facebook it says they are shipping on October 27th.



Was that on yeagers page or Surefires page. I don’t see it.


----------



## mk2rocco

Travis b said:


> Mess that on yeagers page or Surefires page. I don’t see it.


It's in the comments section of the Facebook post about the light. It's a rumour at best.


----------



## Joe Manco

I ordered one of these about a minute after the pre sale post popped up. Hoping to be able to use a 16650 battery in it. Anyone see a reason it wouldn’t work? Thanks.


----------



## Daniel_sk

Some surefire flashlight bodies are too tight to fit the 16650 (such as LX2). Or some will not work on the higher output settings - for example the UM2 will start flashing on the highest setting (level 7), that's probably because of a low battery warning.


----------



## Joe Manco

Thank you Daniel, I thought a 16650 cell was the same diameter as a CR123? The lower voltage part I understand. Thanks again.


----------



## Hudson456

Joe Manco said:


> Thank you Daniel, I thought a 16650 cell was the same diameter as a CR123? The lower voltage part I understand. Thanks again.





Yeah, 16650 is slightly thicker. No guarantee they will fit.

I'm betting they WILL fit physically (most of my E-bodies work with them) but there will be some issue with the voltage and brightness will be altered.


----------



## the0dore3524

Daniel_sk said:


> Some surefire flashlight bodies are too tight to fit the 16650 (such as LX2). Or some will not work on the higher output settings - for example the UM2 will start flashing on the highest setting (level 7), that's probably because of a low battery warning.



I can confirm that the LX2 can fit a 16650. It's sort of a tight fit, but runs perfectly fine on them.


----------



## RobertMM

Yep I have two 2000mAh Keeppower 16650 and they both fit my LX2.

Not sure about the 2500mAh though


----------



## Daniel_sk

It depends also on luck / batch. Some LX2 are tight - I tried 4 or 5 16650 and none of them fit. One would maybe fit without the sticker. There is a thread about LX2 and 16650 somewhere on CPF. My personal bet is that they will physically fit the Tactician. Let's see if the High mode will work correctly...


----------



## Joe Manco

I guess we will have to see when it shows up. My only surefire I currently own is an L4 and the batteries will be her before the Tactition. Any reason they would not work in a L4 if they fit?


----------



## Joe Manco

Do you charge them(16650 cells) to 4.35v or 4.2 and if so do you notice any difference in performance?


----------



## Hudson456

Joe Manco said:


> Do you charge them(16650 cells) to 4.35v or 4.2 and if so do you notice any difference in performance?




I charge mine to 4.2 since that is what my charger does. I figure I lose some capacity but the cells will last longer.


Never noticed it practically speaking.


----------



## elzilcho

In the video linked at the bottom of the order page, he mentions there will be another version coming out later with a clicky tail cap. Has anyone heard anything more about what else might be different? I was also looking for a size comparison against other lights (Surefire or otherwise). Does one of the other videos cover that?


----------



## Tribull

Hopefully I didn’t miss this in the thread, but can anyone venture a guess on run times?


----------



## leon2245

Tribull said:


> Hopefully I didn’t miss this in the thread, but can anyone venture a guess on run times?



Super long runtimes on the 7 lumen low setting.

ANd probably super short runtimes on the 700 lumen high setting.

If you need anything in between, probably get a zebralight or a nite coar with 7 medium modes in each sub level.


----------



## leon2245

Gawdam post lag!


----------



## teak

Supposedly these things are shipping this week. Guess we will see.


----------



## Travis b

teak said:


> Supposedly these things are shipping this week. Guess we will see.


I hope so. Where did you hear that?


----------



## teak

Travis b said:


> I hope so. Where did you hear that?


It's pretty much a rumor. Someone stated on tactical response FB page that they called surefire and was told the 27th. So take that for what it's worth. [emoji16]


----------



## Travis b

teak said:


> It's pretty much a rumor. Someone stated on tactical response FB page that they called surefire and was told the 27th. So take that for what it's worth. [emoji16]



I gotcha. I just checked tactical response web store and now it states shipping November.


----------



## DrafterDan

I just placed my order as well. It states November shipping.
To me, the E-series is my favourite platform, so I ordered it. $150 for a brand new SF design doesn't sound too expensive to me. Once it comes in, I'll see how it does with standard E-series parts, and if a 16650 will work it. 

guarded optimism on this new torch!
~D


----------



## Joe Manco

DrafterDan said:


> I just placed my order as well. It states November shipping.
> To me, the E-series is my favourite platform, so I ordered it. $150 for a brand new SF design doesn't sound too expensive to me. Once it comes in, I'll see how it does with standard E-series parts, and if a 16650 will work it.
> 
> guarded optimism on this new torch!
> ~D



My L4 works fine with a 16650. But it’s not as bright as the tac will be. We will see when they arrive.


----------



## Jose Marin

Yeager's latest video he stated he made sure it wouldnt work with rechargeables because he doesnt think they belong in this light. I bet sf still made it compatible with 2x16340 or 16650 i duno just have a feeling


----------



## leon2245

Jose Marin said:


> Yeager's latest video he stated he made sure it wouldnt work with rechargeables because he doesnt think they belong in this light. I bet sf still made it compatible with 2x16340 or 16650 i duno just have a feeling




What? How did he make sure? Tightened the inner diameter of the body? IDK if he is actually dictating absolutely every specification. 

Either way, you can always use a different e body.


----------



## KentuckyMike

leon2245 said:


> What? How did he make sure? Tightened the inner diameter of the body? IDK if he is actually dictating absolutely every specification.
> 
> Either way, you can always use a different e body.



Yeah, he also initially said it wasn’t possible to use any other tailcap or head with the Tactitian body and he’s already walked that back. Take everything he says with a healthy dose of salt.


----------



## teak

Id say there is a pretty good chance it will run on a 16650. Also possible that it will be at a reduced output. All will be told soon.


----------



## Modernflame

Jose Marin said:


> Yeager's latest video he stated he made sure it wouldnt work with rechargeables because he doesnt think they belong in this light. I bet sf still made it compatible with 2x16340 or 16650 i duno just have a feeling



Yeager is a self defense guru, but I don't get the impression that he knows batteries that well. When he said rechargeables don't work, I had the impression he was referring specifically to 18650's.


----------



## Joe Manco

Modernflame said:


> Yeager is a self defense guru, but I don't get the impression that he knows batteries that well. When he said rechargeables don't work, I had the impression he was referring specifically to 18650's.



Correct. I’m betting a lot of members might not like this light because they won’t understand it’s intended use.


----------



## teak

Joe Manco said:


> Correct. I’m betting a lot of members might not like this light because they won’t understand it’s intended use.


Yes. Certain lights I only run primaries in. They tend to be the ones I rely on the most. Same goes for tailcaps. I use twistys instead of clickys. Broke too many clickys to put the utmost trust into them.


----------



## sween1911

the0dore3524 said:


> I can confirm that the LX2 can fit a 16650. It's sort of a tight fit, but runs perfectly fine on them.



I almost tore the wrapper on one of my 16650’s trying to cram it in my LX2. It would not fit. Mine was an older logo LX2 that I since sold. Wonder if that had anything to do with it. I forget the battery brand, got it from mtnelectronics.


----------



## bykfixer

teak said:


> Yes. Certain lights I only run primaries in. They tend to be the ones I rely on the most. Same goes for tailcaps. I use twistys instead of clickys. Broke too many clickys to put the utmost trust into them.



Exactly. Reliability in recreational lights is one thing, but for self defense it absolutely positively has to work at an instant every time.
And continue to work under stress.


----------



## Jose Marin

Besides cr123s having superior resistance to cold, what do they have on a sanyo ur16650zta unprotected as far as being more dependable?
Or really any unprotected lithium ion actually.


----------



## Modernflame

Jose Marin said:


> Besides cr123s having superior resistance to cold, what do they have on a sanyo ur16650zta unprotected as far as being more dependable?
> Or really any unprotected lithium ion actually.



Not much, really. I suppose one might argue that most lights cut off abruptly at a certain voltage when running on li-ons , whereas the primaries taper off slowly. For me personally (just one guy's opinion), I'd trust any of my unprotected AW cells on a full charge.

One might also add that primaries are maintenance free when left unused for years, while li-ons will need attention.


----------



## teak

Modernflame said:


> Not much, really. I suppose one might argue that most lights cut off abruptly at a certain voltage when running on li-ons , whereas the primaries taper off slowly. For me personally (just one guy's opinion), I'd trust any of my unprotected AW cells on a full charge.
> 
> One might also add that primaries are maintenance free when left unused for years, while li-ons will need attention.


Yep. Pretty much the only differences. If one chooses to run lion batteries unprotected is the way to go for more reliability.


----------



## mk2rocco

I used to run protected AW cells in my duty light.. I dropped it from about 5ft and the protection circuit failed. I've been running unprotected AW cells since and have added orings to act as battery bumpers. After that experience I can understand why Yeager only wants primaries, they are as close to 100% reliable as you can get.


----------



## Slumber

I had the same failure with a protected 17670 once. Since then, it’s unprotected or primaries for carry lights.


----------



## mebiuspower

I emailed our inside sales rep at SF and they have no ETA for this light.


----------



## teak

mebiuspower said:


> I emailed our inside sales rep at SF and they have no ETA for this light.


Your sales rep doesnt have an eta for him? Or no eta for anyone? Yeager is claiming November.


----------



## leon2245

SF rep I talked to wouldn't give me an ETA either, but did assure me this light is happening.

You have to check an e-oath box now at checkout, swearing that you will never use any rechargeables with this light, in any capacity.


----------



## Joe Manco

leon2245 said:


> SF rep I talked to wouldn't give me an ETA either, but did assure me this light is happening.
> 
> You have to check an e-oath box now at checkout, swearing that you will never use any rechargeables with this light, in any capacity.



LMAO


----------



## jellydonut

Didn't hear about this light before today. Article: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...clock-back-new-tactical-handheld-flashlights/


----------



## teak

So appears some new models coming out utilizing the 2 stage tailcap again. A single and 2 cell version. 1200 lumens from an e series platform. Interested to see if and when this comes about. Maybe surefire is going to go back to when they were good.


----------



## mebiuspower

teak said:


> Your sales rep doesnt have an eta for him? Or no eta for anyone? Yeager is claiming November.



I should add that they did say the item should be available by end of the year.


----------



## Modernflame

leon2245 said:


> You have to check an e-oath box now at checkout, swearing that you will never use any rechargeables with this light, in any capacity.



Ha Ha! :laughing:


----------



## teak

TR stating surefire is estimating shipping before December 1st. So we may have these by first of the year. But who really knows.


----------



## tech25

As far as rechargeable goes, surefire introduced a scoutlight that supports an 18650 as well as cr123s. 
I would imagine that this would support a 16650.


----------



## mk2rocco

tech25 said:


> As far as rechargeable goes, surefire introduced a scoutlight that supports an 18650 as well as cr123s.
> I would imagine that this would support a 16650.


Which if their weapon lights accepts and 18650?


----------



## jellydonut

mk2rocco said:


> Which if their weapon lights accepts and 18650?




http://www.recoilweb.com/finally-surefires-new-1500-lumen-scout-light-130651.html

Here's one, this is a surprising development to me. It's also very encouraging with regard to their 18650s, they have probably tested them extensively on heavy-recoil platforms to make sure they can take the abuse.


----------



## mk2rocco

Thanks! SF is definitely doing some great things with their new lights.


----------



## teak

Hmmm. Makes me think the new 1200 lumen tir handheld that's coming out may just use 18650s.


----------



## mk2rocco

teak said:


> Hmmm. Makes me think the new 1200 lumen tir handheld that's coming out may just use 18650s.


Same here, and I really like that x series head with an e series tail.


----------



## mebiuspower

SF released their 2018 price list.

Tactician is definitely on there. It's listed as 800 lumens instead of 700.

Certain models like the new 1500 lumens Fury is listed as "Duel Fuel" which accepts the 18650 as well as CR123.


----------



## Daniel_sk

Can you please post a link to the price list? I am not able to find it.


----------



## teak

[/IMG]


----------



## Modernflame

The combination of form factor and user interface makes this light. The Tactician is quite similar to the Elzetta Bravo in terms of output and user interface, but the Elzetta, while having a superior build quality, lacks the sleek, pocket friendly design.


----------



## the0dore3524

Modernflame said:


> The combination of form factor and user interface makes this light. The Tactician is quite similar to the Elzetta Bravo in terms of output and user interface, but the Elzetta, while having a superior build quality, lacks the sleek, pocket friendly design.



Agreed. While the build quality of the Elzetta Bravo is definitely superior, I never carry mine because of the wide AVS head. This looks like an interesting light although I think I'll probably end up going with the EDCL-L2 they're touting.


----------



## mk2rocco

I'd like to use this head with the 2 stage tailcap of the other new light


----------



## Modernflame

mk2rocco said:


> I'd like to use this head with the 2 stage tailcap of the other new light



Now you're talkin...

I think we're asking for an updated A2 aviator with a high low ring.


----------



## teak

mk2rocco said:


> I'd like to use this head with the 2 stage tailcap of the other new light


You can bet the first thing I do is try the tactician head on an lx2 body..[emoji14]


----------



## RobertMM

So 10K cd for the Tactician, not bad for a "flood" light!


----------



## teak

RobertMM said:


> So 10K cd for the Tactician, not bad for a "flood" light!


Yes. 800 lumens of flood with a tad of throw. Works for me. I do hope the low is 15 and not 5 though.


----------



## Modernflame

teak said:


> Yes. 800 lumens of flood with a tad of throw. Works for me. I do hope the low is 15 and not 5 though.



Very useful configuration. Surefire's new products have piqued my interest.


----------



## teak

Yes. Now we just wait. Seems like all the talk is the edcl-2t since its available for purchase already.


----------



## teak

Not hearing any news on the tactitian lately. Anyone else?


----------



## tango44

So does anyone have one in hands right now?


----------



## teak

tango44 said:


> So does anyone have one in hands right now?


With the exception of Yeager. I dont believe so. Havent even heard anymore about it. I ordered day it came available for pre order. Maybe next Mondays mega lumens Monday. Who really knows though. Its surefire. They may never be produced. Lol!


----------



## JJRG

teak said:


> With the exception of Yeager. I dont believe so. Havent even heard anymore about it. I ordered day it came available for pre order. Maybe next Mondays mega lumens Monday. Who really knows though. Its surefire. They may never be produced. Lol!



They’re getting made, but won’t be part of the Monday release schedule.


----------



## teak

JJRG said:


> They’re getting made, but won’t be part of the Monday release schedule.


Well damn the luck!


----------



## mk2rocco

Update:

https://youtu.be/ugf0tKvrF2Y


----------



## bubbatime

From the tactical response webpage. They have about 1400 orders currently.

*THE FIRST 250 LIGHTS SHOULD ARRIVE BY DECEMBER 1ST. *

*THE NEXT 1,000 LIGHTS SHOULD ARRIVE BY CHRISTMAS.*

*WE FORECAST ALL ORDERS AFTER THAT 1,250 DELIVERED IN JANUARY.*

*We SINCERELY appreciate your patience! As soon as we get the lights we will send them right out! *
*WORTH THE WAIT!!!*​


----------



## teak

Yes I seen that. Error on the side of caution and say first of the year probably for most. I ordered the next morning. Maybe I am in the 250.


----------



## Travis b

teak said:


> Yes I seen that. Error on the side of caution and say first of the year probably for most. I ordered the next morning. Maybe I am in the 250.



Next morning after it was first announced? If so I’m sure you’re in the first batch.


----------



## teak

Travis b said:


> Next morning after it was first announced? If so I’m sure you’re in the first batch.


Correct. After the anouncment. I'm taking a wild guess that the 250 havent made it to tenessee yet either. Lol. I also havent heard anymore this week on the edcl-2. They will arrive someday.


----------



## teak

Speaking of. Here is the latest anouncment. Looking december 14th now 

https://youtu.be/4WArhwYn-8w


----------



## Harry999

I have placed an order. Looks like the Surefire UI I have been waiting for in an E-series form. If it is as good as I am hoping I will order a couple more in the New Year.


----------



## DrafterDan

I am in the 2nd batch, so hopefully will receive it in a couple weeks.


----------



## teak

DrafterDan said:


> I am in the 2nd batch, so hopefully will receive it in a couple weeks.


The latest video from yeager stated They were getting 1250 on december 14th. I wouldn't count on it though. Lol


----------



## Viper715

Ordered mine about 15 minutes after he posted the pre-order video. I have been buying Surefire's for nearly 17 years now and I have yet to see them hit a target release date. My guess is not a single one will ship until 2018 but I'm a pessimist so hopefully I'm wrong and I will see one under my Christmas tree.


----------



## Bullzeyebill

Several off topic posts were removed. Let's stay on track.

Bill


----------



## Blackbird13

Who do y'all order yours from


----------



## Freedomarms

Blackbird13 said:


> Who do y'all order yours from



https://www.tacticalresponse.com/products/surefire-tactician


----------



## scout24

Two more off topic posts removed. Bullzeyebill was here cleaning up the same post, from the same member less than a week ago. Back to the light, please, and no more discussion of Youtube reviewers, okay? Thanks...


----------



## teak

Id say its safe to say that these wont be arriving tomorrow either. Lol.


----------



## bubbatime

teak said:


> Id say its safe to say that these wont be arriving tomorrow either. Lol.




Waiting patiently for my Tactician, EDCL1-T, and EDCL2-T to arrive. Perhaps before the shot show. Maybe.

Edit- Just looked on the Tactical Response web page, and he says that the clips were improperly heat treated, which is causing them to crack. Surefire had to order a new batch of clips. Says the lights are assembled and waiting for the new clips to come in from an outside vendor. Still hoping for a December ship date.


----------



## edlex

bubbatime said:


> Waiting patiently for my Tactician, EDCL1-T, and EDCL2-T to arrive. Perhaps before the shot show. Maybe.
> 
> Edit- Just looked on the Tactical Response web page, and he says that the clips were improperly heat treated, which is causing them to crack. Surefire had to order a new batch of clips. Says the lights are assembled and waiting for the new clips to come in from an outside vendor. Still hoping for a December ship date.



Thanks for the update! Should be an easy fix if that's the holdup. I can't wait!


----------



## edlex

I really hope the Tactician ships this week. If they don't I have a feeling this is going to be a New Years 2018 present!


----------



## teak

Well it didnt ship this week. Lol


----------



## Flashlight Dave

teak said:


> Well it didnt ship this week. Lol


Its not even on the website yet.


----------



## teak

Flashlight Dave said:


> Its not even on the website yet.


Yeah. Ive noticed that.


----------



## Tachead

teak said:


> Yeah. Ive noticed that.


Probably because it is a special order by James Yeager. He had to put up $60000 of his own money to have it made I heard. Does anyone know if Surefire will even be selling this themselves or maybe it will only be available from James's website(Tactical Response)? Maybe it will depend on how they sell.


----------



## edlex

I guess the Tactician will be my first light in 2018! Merry Christmas everyone!


----------



## Slumber

Tachead said:


> Probably because it is a special order by James Yeager. He had to put up $60000 of his own money to have it made I heard. Does anyone know if Surefire will even be selling this themselves or maybe it will only be available from James's website(Tactical Response)? Maybe it will depend on how they sell.



B&H has it, along with many other upcoming lights (Guardian, Fury DF, Fury IB DF, EDCL1-T and EDCL2-T) for sale on its website. None show to be in stock, but I take it as an indication that it will be available through all/most Surefire dealers.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

I'd agree that he has the exclusivity on it for now; but other dealers and SF direct down the road.

Just got a $200 check in one of my Christmas cards! Hmm, do I shoot for this light or that EDCL2-T? Decisions...


----------



## teak

JohnnyBravo said:


> I'd agree that he has the exclusivity on it for now; but other dealers and SF direct down the road.
> 
> Just got a $200 check in one of my Christmas cards! Hmm, do I shoot for this light or that EDCL2-T? Decisions...


Buy both like many of us have. Lol!


----------



## Dead Reckoning

teak said:


> Buy both like many of us have. Lol!



Aint that the truth of it!


----------



## jkevind11

Just placed an order for one . First light I’ve ever pre-ordered . Now here for the updates [emoji4]


----------



## TacticianMV

Hey, guys.. newbie here... I've been following this thread and thought it's time to register and tell ya what I learned. Yeager has a vdeo up on a friend's channel from just 2 days ago where he says he's been told SF will send the lights to him overnight on the 26th (today). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly65P5FYYYc

So, he gets them the Wednesday the 27th. The earliest they would be shipped from him would be the Thursday the 28th. This is me specuating. He doesn't promise he'll ship that fast but we know he is eager to get them moving out. But let's say they go out Friday the 29th. We should start receiving them next week. Monday is the 1st and a holiday. 

They have a scud load of USPS boxes already assembled and invoices ready to go, so the process should move quickly. 

Another video says he'll have more lights than was ordered (at that point) so 99% of us will see lights very soon. He gets them before any other vendor and I rather reward him with the sale anyway. 

I have my shock cord ready to go.


----------



## teak

TacticianMV said:


> Hey, guys.. newbie here... I've been following this thread and thought it's time to register and tell ya what I learned. Yeager has a vdeo up on a friend's channel from just 2 days ago where he says he's been told SF will send the lights to him overnight on the 26th (today). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly65P5FYYYc
> 
> So, he gets them the Wednesday the 27th. The earliest they would be shipped from him would be the Thursday the 28th. This is me specuating. He doesn't promise he'll ship that fast but we know he is eager to get them moving out. But let's say they go out Friday the 29th. We should start receiving them next week. Monday is the 1st and a holiday.
> 
> They have a scud load of USPS boxes already assembled and invoices ready to go, so the process should move quickly.
> 
> Another video says he'll have more lights than was ordered (at that point) so 99% of us will see lights very soon. He gets them before any other vendor and I rather reward him with the sale anyway.
> 
> I have my shock cord ready to go.


Thats good news. Guess we will see what tomorrow brings.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

Its on the Surefire website now.


----------



## Daniel_sk

Why is the FC CE logo that big? :green: It's nothing new, it was already placed on other surefires - but never on such a prominent space. Maybe some new regulatory requirements... Anyway, it's not something really important. What I am more interested in is the runtime and especially the current draw on high. The EDCL2-T draws 3.5A from the poor lithium cells, I wonder how much less the Tactician draws...


----------



## Lurveleven

Flashlight Dave said:


> Its on the Surefire website now.



It is now specked as 800 lumen high instead of 700.
What low will be is not easy to tell, we now have 5, 7 and 15 lumen listed in specs.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

Daniel_sk said:


> Why is the FC CE logo that big? :green: It's nothing new, it was already placed on other surefires - but never on such a prominent space. Maybe some new regulatory requirements... Anyway, it's not something really important. What I am more interested in is the runtime and especially the current draw on high. The EDCL2-T draws 3.5A from the poor lithium cells, I wonder how much less the Tactician draws...



Not true. This discussion came up with the Stratum some years ago. It was just as large on that light.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

Lurveleven said:


> It is now specked as 800 lumen high instead of 700.
> What low will be is not easy to tell, we now have 5, 7 and 15 lumen listed in specs.


I believe 800 lumens was what Yeager stated on his first vid.


----------



## TacticianMV

Flashlight Dave said:


> Its on the Surefire website now.



Sweet. Nice to see pro pics of it. I notice it says the head is not removable. <<Warning: Non-Removable Illumination Tool Heads>>


----------



## CJF

Has anyone heard anything yet, did tactical response get their shipment yesterday?


----------



## mk2rocco

TacticianMV said:


> Sweet. Nice to see pro pics of it. I notice it says the head is not removable. <<Warning: Non-Removable Illumination Tool Heads>>


Must be a mistake. That's the only way to swap batteries in an e series light.


----------



## HeathHudnall

CJF said:


> Has anyone heard anything yet, did Yeager get his shipment yesterday?


I received a shipping notice in my email from Tactical Response. Saying that my shipment (surefire tacticion) has been shipped.


----------



## TacticianMV

CJF said:


> Has anyone heard anything yet, did tactical response get their shipment yesterday?



https://www.instagram.com/mfceoyeager/

A short video showing 9 boxes/ 900 lights arriving at Yeager's place. I guess it's possible some could be shipped today, but tomorrow seems for sure. Most of us are looking at getting them Tuesday-Friday next week.


----------



## HeathHudnall

TacticianMV said:


> https://www.instagram.com/mfceoyeager/
> 
> A short video showing 9 boxes/ 900 lights arriving at Yeager's place. I guess it's possible some could be shipped today, but tomorrow seems for sure. Most of us are looking at getting them Tuesday-Friday next week.


I got a shipping confirmation this morning. Order #7542


----------



## CJF

TacticianMV said:


> https://www.instagram.com/mfceoyeager/
> 
> A short video showing 9 boxes/ 900 lights arriving at Yeager's place. I guess it's possible some could be shipped today, but tomorrow seems for sure. Most of us are looking at getting them Tuesday-Friday next week.



Thanks for the update! Now to wait and see if I'm in the first 900!


----------



## Travis b

CJF said:


> Thanks for the update! Now to wait and see if I'm in the first 900!



I don’t know my order number but I ordered it on oct 10th. I hope I made it in time for the first batch


----------



## Travis b

HeathHudnall said:


> I got a shipping confirmation this morning. Order #7542



Just found my order number. 8163. Hope I’m in the first batch


----------



## HeathHudnall

Mine should be here maybe Saturday, being that I'm not real far from Camden. USPS says Tuesday, but I'm hoping it's Saturday. I'll post photos.


----------



## HeathHudnall

Travis b said:


> Just found my order number. 8163. Hope I’m in the first batch


You should have gotten a shipping confirmation, he may not have gotten them all shipped out today. 900 is a lot of boxing up.


----------



## teak

Yes. I havent got a shipping notification yet and I ordered 12 hours after the presale went into effect. 900 boxes is alot of crap to mess with. Lol


----------



## HeathHudnall

The elusive shipping confirmation.


----------



## TacticianMV

Travis b said:


> Just found my order number. 8163. Hope I’m in the first batch




I ordered about an hour after he announce the pre-order. I still have not received shipping notification. :thinking:


----------



## Joe Manco

Just got an email. Mine shipped today.


----------



## TacticianMV

Yeager just said 250-300 went out today.


----------



## HeathHudnall

TacticianMV said:


> Yeager just said 250-300 went out today.


That's hustlin' to get that many out.


----------



## teak

Mine wasnt one of them. Maybe tomorrow.

Edit. My order number was 7854. Ordered 10-4. So the next day from time of presale.


----------



## bubbatime

Order 8147 on Oct 9th. No shipping notice yet.

Also, several weeks ago he said that he had 1400 orders up to that point. So he could have 2000 to 3000 orders, or more, by now. 900 lights from Surefire is a good start, so it will be interesting to see how long it takes Surefire to get the rest of the lights out.


----------



## HeathHudnall

I had to go back and look, but I placed my order on October 3rd.


----------



## mk2rocco

Order 7816 on October 4th, so shipping confirmation yet


----------



## teak

Mine wasnt one of them. Maybe tomorrow.

Edit. My order number was 7854. Ordered 10-4. So the next day from time of presale. 


HeathHudnall said:


> I had to go back and look, but I placed my order on October 3rd.


Yes. You ordered the day the presale was announced. I bet mine goes out tomorrow. If not. No big deal. I have waited this long, besides I have a edcl2 en route too!


----------



## TacticianMV

Two unboxing videos. Not indepth. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IECnXOcAlOg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1E5jf9wMJ8

It comes with a lanyard. But because it has those ends on it, it requires another clip to clip 
it to the main clip. I'll install my own on the main clip the way Yeager has his. I like that, instead of
putting your hand through it, instead you rap it over the back of your hand and then over the bezel. 

This allows you to open that hand and use it for whatever and still not drop the light. :thumbsup:


----------



## CJF

Well, it’s not looking good for me, I didn’t get my order in until the end of November. I wonder when the next shipment will arrive?


----------



## TacticianMV

No word yet on when SF will send more lights to Yeager, but I can't imagine it being more than a couple of days. JY has a new Instagram video showing the team hard at work moving them out. Instagram is the primary way he is updating us. https://www.instagram.com/mfceoyeager/?hl=en


----------



## mk2rocco

Whoo!


----------



## teak

Well. Latest update on Instagram stated all 900 have been boxed up and done. I just received my shipping notification.


----------



## Dead Reckoning

Just got my tracking number this afternoon. So I assume sometime by next week.


----------



## TacticianMV

My order number is lower than the other shipping notices posted above and I still haven't received the notice. Could be a glitch in the matrix or a lag. My order is #7448. I ordered about an hour after he posted his YT video announcing preorders on Oct. 3.

Looks like they use shopify and I've found businesses (not Tactical Response) on shopify support saying their customers are not getting notices. My guess is if you've ordered within the first few days your order went out yesterday or today. Just my guess. 

I waited 3 months, I can wait a few more days. People should not cancel! You'll get it soon.


----------



## teak

TacticianMV said:


> My order number is lower than the other shipping notices posted above and I still haven't received the notice. Could be a glitch in the matrix or a lag. My order is #7448. I ordered about an hour after he posted his YT video announcing preorders on Oct. 3.
> 
> Looks like they use shopify and I've found businesses (not Tactical Response) on shopify support saying their customers are not getting notices. My guess is if you've ordered within the first few days your order went out yesterday or today. Just my guess.
> 
> I waited 3 months, I can wait a few more days. People should not cancel! You'll get it soon.


I just got my notification. They are still sending emails out. Yeager meant to say all 900 are boxed and that it doesn't mean all shipping notifications have been sent yet. Im sure you'll get one soon.


----------



## sidfishez

No tracking info on my order yet. Ordered one off the Surefire website yesterday. Now just to be patient and see which one arrives first


----------



## bubbatime

bubbatime said:


> Order 8147 on Oct 9th. No shipping notice yet.
> 
> Also, several weeks ago he said that he had 1400 orders up to that point. So he could have 2000 to 3000 orders, or more, by now. 900 lights from Surefire is a good start, so it will be interesting to see how long it takes Surefire to get the rest of the lights out.



Got my shipping notice today. Looks like order 8147 was in the first 900.


----------



## TacticianMV

UPDATE::::::

Yeager just said if your number is #8232 or below, your order is on the way. 
https://www.instagram.com/p/BdTZc8TAAzb/?hl=en&taken-by=mfceoyeager

I received my notification a few minutes ago. :thumbsup:

John, at ASP, shows off several lights in a dark park - one of them the Tactician. Wow, what a nice flood. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKib5K47xtQ


----------



## edlex

TacticianMV said:


> UPDATE::::::
> 
> Yeager just said if your number is #8232 or below, your order is on the way.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BdTZc8TAAzb/?hl=en&taken-by=mfceoyeager
> 
> I received my notification a few minutes ago. :thumbsup:
> 
> John, at ASP, shows off several lights in a dark park - one of them the Tactician. Wow, what a nice flood.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKib5K47xtQ



Thank you for the update! I’m below the #8232 but I haven’t received a shipping confirmation. I checked USPS informed delivery and there it was, shipped today from Camden! Can’t wait to get it!


----------



## TacticianMV

Funny, I got the notice from TR but the USPS shows they didn't receive it yet. <<PRE-SHIPMENT INFO SENT TO USPS, USPS AWAITING ITEM>> This is what you'd see if a label was generated but the PO didn't receive the item yet. But I suspect they did and the system is just not showing it yet.


----------



## chillinn

When identified, can someone please post Surefire's internal z number for Tactician's new momentary-only tail cap, and if/where it can be purchased separately (presumably as a replacement).


----------



## TacticianMV

Good article explaining low-light tactics. What this light was made for. https://www.policeone.com/swat/arti...-flashlight-use-in-low-light-SWAT-operations/


----------



## JohnnyBravo

It just occurred to me the size of this light. Has there ever been a SF light that's 5x1 inch that runs on 2xCR123s? Seems quite slender...


----------



## the0dore3524

JohnnyBravo said:


> It just occurred to me the size of this light. Has there ever been a SF light that's 5x1 inch that runs on 2xCR123s? Seems quite slender...



It’s a result of the Maxvision Head. The G2X MV is even shorter coming in at 4.87 inches (although it is 0.1 of an inch wider). I prefer reflector to the MV beam, but I must admit that it produces a very good EDC-usage beam.


----------



## tokaji

And here is what it is not made for

http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2012/12/tactical-level-lighting.aspx



TacticianMV said:


> Good article explaining low-light tactics. What this light was made for. https://www.policeone.com/swat/arti...-flashlight-use-in-low-light-SWAT-operations/


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Oh, interesting. Thanks. Just from scanning both lights on SF's website, the G2X MV looks bigger/beefier. My right index finger had decision constipation again. I set up a cart, added all cr. card info; and just couldn't quite click to order the Tactician...



the0dore3524 said:


> It’s a result of the Maxvision Head. The G2X MV is even shorter coming in at 4.87 inches (although it is 0.1 of an inch wider). I prefer reflector to the MV beam, but I must admit that it produces a very good EDC-usage beam.


----------



## TacticianMV

Each tac light has trade offs for different situations. But the article goes on and on about the benefits of high lumens.


----------



## HeathHudnall

It arrived today.


----------



## teak

HeathHudnall said:


> It arrived today.


Nice. Let us know how the low is. 5 lumens or 15. Lol


----------



## HeathHudnall

Tactician on the left, E2D LED Defender 200 lumen on the right. The throw is different, but it looks like 5 lumens on low to me. The E2D LED is 5 lumens on the second push.


----------



## HeathHudnall

teak said:


> Nice. Let us know how the low is. 5 lumens or 15. Lol


Official.


----------



## Modernflame

Thanks for the photos. Can you remove the head of the light? I'm curious to see the high/low resistor.


----------



## tokaji

Does the MaxVision beam really has this bright hotspot?


----------



## Tachead

Thanks for the info and pics Heath. Hey, what would you estimate the CCT is and what is the tint like? Thanks again.


----------



## HeathHudnall

Modernflame said:


> Thanks for the photos. Can you remove the head of the light? I'm curious to see the high/low resistor.


Is what you mean?


tokaji said:


> Does the MaxVision beam really has this bright hotspot?


Not sure what you mean.


Tachead said:


> Thanks for the info and pics Heath. Hey, what would you estimate the CCT is and what is the tint like? Thanks again.


Welcome. I'm new on the forum (obviously from my post count haha), I don't really know what CCT is and I think you mean this tint?

Completely unsure if that's the photos you guys needed.


----------



## Tachead

HeathHudnall said:


> Is what you mean?Not sure what you mean.Welcome. I'm new on the forum (obviously from my post count haha), I don't really know what CCT is and I think you mean this tint?
> 
> Completely unsure if that's the photos you guys needed.



Oh, right. Sorry, I didn't look at your post count. 

CCT(correlated colour temperature) is the temperature of the light, like on a household lighting box(2700K, 4000K, 5000K, 6500K etc.). Tint is the color of the light(greenish, yellowish, pinkish, purplish, bluish, etc.). 

It's ok if you can't estimate this stuff, I can wait for other users to get theirs. Thanks.


----------



## TacticianMV

Sweet. Did the package arrive folded? It looks torn or something.


----------



## HeathHudnall

TacticianMV said:


> Sweet. Did the package arrive folded? It looks torn or something.


Yes it was scrunched up in the box, it is longer than the USPS package.


----------



## flashlight nut

Can you switch the pocket clip out for a long two way clip like on the LX2?


----------



## Modernflame

@Heath. Thank you for taking the time to make photos and put up with our questions.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Does it look like there is a way to remove that lanyard ring? Or would one have to cut it w/ wire snips and then remove?


----------



## HeathHudnall

Modernflame said:


> @Heath. Thank you for taking the time to make photos and put up with our questions.


Your very welcome, wish I could help more. I own a few surefire lights. XC1, X300UB, Scout M600 200 lumen, Tactician, and E2D LED Defender 200 lumen. The 200 lumen lights were bought a few years back. I use them for what they are intended for respectively.


----------



## MicroE

Does the Tactician have a lockout tailcap?


----------



## Daniel_sk

Yes it does. Twist-on for constant on, and unscrew the tailcap a little bit more from the normal position for lockout (pressing the tailcap button will not actually reach the battery to make a contact).


----------



## HeathHudnall

Daniel_sk said:


> Yes it does. Twist-on for constant on, and unscrew the tailcap a little bit more from the normal position for lockout (pressing the tailcap button will not actually reach the battery to make a contact).


+1


----------



## Sean

Thanks for the info! Keep it coming!


----------



## Travis b

I hope you can switch out the clip with the standard 2 way for bezel down carry. Also I wonder if it will work with a thrym switchback as the tailcap looks too big.


----------



## mk2rocco

Travis b said:


> I hope you can switch out the clip with the standard 2 way for bezel down carry. Also I wonder if it will work with a thrym switchback as the tailcap looks too big.


I'm going to be trying both of these things when mine comes in. I also hope it will work with a 2 stage tailcap from the other new lights, I'm thinking the driver may work the same way.


----------



## sledhead

Not sure if its been asked.....will this light tailstand?


----------



## HeathHudnall

sledhead said:


> Not sure if its been asked.....will this light tailstand?


No


----------



## dhunley1

This is the first Surefire I've been tempted by since the 6P. Might have to give one a try once the craze dies down a bit.


----------



## sledhead

HeathHudnall said:


> No



Thanks for the quick reply!


----------



## dhunley1

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone tried a 16650 in one yet?


----------



## bykfixer

Looks like a really good close quarter action light.
Great for when the hostage negotiation didn't pan out and the super-troopers need to do their thing....

Thanks for the pix Heath.


----------



## HeathHudnall

bykfixer said:


> Looks like a really good close quarter action light.
> Great for when the hostage negotiation didn't pan out and the super-troopers need to do their thing....
> 
> Thanks for the pix Heath.


Very welcome.


----------



## kyhunter1

dhunley1 said:


> Maybe I missed it, but has anyone tried a 16650 in one yet?



Im very curious about that too. Yeager was vehemently against rechargeable’s in it but Im sure modders around here can make that happen along with a clicky switch.


----------



## teak

My tactitian and edcl2 are both scheduled to be here tomorrow. Like others will do I will Lego it with other e series switches and bodies and also try different batteries etc. Looking forward to trying both of them out.


----------



## tokaji

In Europe, we just can't wait for your experience to share. Usually we see new Made In USA flashlights in person months after their release.



teak said:


> My tactitian and edcl2 are both scheduled to be here tomorrow. Like others will do I will Lego it with other e series switches and bodies and also try different batteries etc. Looking forward to trying both of them out.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Still thinking about owning this light. Called up SF just now, and they told me it's backordered until mid January. 

Anyone, is that lanyard ring plastic or metal? Wondering if it's plastic and I heated it up w/ a hair dryer, if I could slip it off w/out cutting it...


----------



## HeathHudnall

JohnnyBravo said:


> Still thinking about owning this light. Called up SF just now, and they told me it's backordered until mid January.
> 
> Anyone, is that lanyard ring plastic or metal? Wondering if it's plastic and I heated it up w/ a hair dryer, if I could slip it off w/out cutting it...


The ring around the tail, that is attatched to the light is metal.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Thanks Heath. I reckon I'd give it a go w/ the ring on it at first. And if it bothers me, I'd cut it off w/ wire snips.

Hmm, maybe put a GITD blue o-ring in the groove then...


----------



## the0dore3524

I’m debating between this and the E2D. I like the clicky, but dislike the size of the E2D. It would seem that the two have relatively similar beams; the Maxvision of the Tacticisn is surprisingly centered. Can anyone give me recommendations on which one I should choose? Like for what purpose I should choose one over the other, specifically?


----------



## JohnnyBravo

I'm thinking that if I get the Tactician, it'd be my primary light on the nightstand near my Walther. But if I were EDCing a light and NOT be CCWing, then I'd prefer the E2D since it's bezel cuts are more pronounced and could be used for defensive purposes; per Surefire: The Defender's crenellated Strike Bezel® provides further defensive options should the need arise.


----------



## the0dore3524

JohnnyBravo said:


> I'm thinking that if I get the Tactician, it'd be my primary light on the nightstand near my Walther. But if I were EDCing a light and NOT be CCWing, then I'd prefer the E2D since it's bezel cuts are more pronounced and could be used for defensive purposes; per Surefire: The Defender's crenellated Strike Bezel[emoji768] provides further defensive options should the need arise.



Thanks. I feel like the Tactician makes more sense if you’re mainly using it in tandem with another weapon. The E2L is probably more apt for EDC purposes.


----------



## tokaji

I have the E2L, E1L and the E2L-AA. I don't use them for EDC, because of the tight beam they have. Not suitable for close range/general task/car maintenance/reading etc. Good for checking the backyard and for navigating in the dark without too much light.



the0dore3524 said:


> Thanks. I feel like the Tactician makes more sense if you’re mainly using it in tandem with another weapon. The E2L is probably more apt for EDC purposes.


----------



## Daniel_sk

+1 tokaji. I never understood the reason why an "Outdoorsman" flashlight would have a tight beam. Almost anyone who has actually used a flashlight during night hiking / camping will know that for 95% cases you need something with a well balanced spill pattern, like the Maxvision provides or at least a less focused TIR optic (e.g. the new EDCL2-T). I had to use the F04 diffuser with these types of flashlights, but it's annoying and you have to take it off if you need a little more focus. An E1L/E2L beam will give you a tunnel vision if pointing down on the path your are walking. 
I also had bad experience with full-flood beam patterns - providing not enough reach and contrast while hiking (or you had to increase the brightness a lot - wasting a lot of light).

Sorry for going little off-topic .


----------



## bubbatime

Just got my tactition in the mail. Comes with four batteries, two in the light and two in the packaging. The lanyard is smaller and different than any surefire lanyard I have ever seen before. It is not stretchy, or "shock" cord as James Yeager advocates the use of. 

A Keeppower 16650 fits and works fine.

The lanyard ring is a single piece of blackened steel. It looks like they just sllipped it onto the tailcap, without the use of special tools. You could probably finagle it off without having to resort to cutting it off. 

A E1D clicky tailcap fits but does not work. A Scout M600 ultra clicky tailcap fits but does not work.

The E2L clicky tailcap fits and works perfect. Click on, click off. 

The old style two way clips will not fit. The new clip is wider, and thus, the skinnier older style will not fit into the slot. 

The KX2-A and KX2-B head from an E2L fits and works fine on the Tactician.

The KL4 head from a L4 Lumamax fits and works fine on the Tactician. 

The EB2 500 lumen head fits and works fine on the Tactician body. 

The 200 lumen LX2 head fits and works fine on the Tactician, single mode.

The Tactician head, mounted on a LX2 body, gives you three output levels. Screw the head down tight, press the tailcap lightly and you get medium output, perhaps 100 lumens. Press harder, and you get high, 800 lumens. Unscrew the head slightly and you get low, about 10 lumens. When the head is unscrewed lightly, you only get low, no matter if you press hard or light on the tailcap.

The Tactician head fits and works fine on a Surefire M600 scout ultra. 

The tactician head fits on the E2L body and works perfect as designed. Tighten the head all the way, full brightness. Loosen the head slightly, comes on low 5 lumens.

The E2L body is almost identical to the Tactician body. Only real difference being the clip size. 

The Surefire packaging is an inch longer than the USPS priority mail box that Tactical Response used. So they had to fold the packaging to make it fit. Not a big complaint, and I understand why they did it, but most companies would probably try to find better shipping boxes so as to not damage the packaging.

I have a feeling that the clicky lovers are going to love this light by simply adding the E2L clicky cap.

The tactician low does look brighter than 5 lumens to me. Id guestimate 15 lumens. But I have no equipment to verify.


----------



## tokaji

Thank you for the information! Could you please show us a few beamshots?



bubbatime said:


> Just got my tactition in the mail. Comes with four batteries, two in the light and two in the packaging. The lanyard is smaller and different than any surefire lanyard I have ever seen before. It is not stretchy, or "shock" cord as James Yeager advocates the use of.
> 
> A Keeppower 16650 fits and works fine.
> 
> A E1D clicky tailcap fits but does not work. A Scout M600 clicky tailcap fits but does not work.
> 
> The E2L clicky tailcap fits and works perfect. Click on, click off.
> 
> The old style two way clips will not fit. The clip is wider, and thus, the skinnier older style will not fit into the slot.
> 
> The tactician head fits on the E2L body and works perfect as designed. Tighten the head all the way, full brightness. Loosen the head slightly, comes on low 5 lumens.
> 
> The Surefire packaging is an inch longer than the USPS priority mail box that Tactical Response used. So they had to fold the packaging to make it fit. Not a big complaint, and I understand why they did it, but most companies probably would probably try to find better shipping boxes so as to not damage the packaging.


----------



## TacticianMV

I'm getting the Tactician strictly for self defense. I'll get the Sidekick for utility. I'll carry both every day. I have a 6PX Pro that I never carry because it's too fat (didn't mean to body shame). 

I posted this before but incase anyone missed it. This shows a few SureFire's... Tactician, EDCL2-T, etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKib5K47xtQ

Compare the Tactician to the Fenix which is supposedly 1,000 lumes - the Fenix looks way dimmer, and crappy pattern, etc. 

I respect John as a trainer, but I completely disagree with some of his comments regarding tac use. That Fenix is a utility light and is simply not an option for tac use by any serious person.


----------



## TacticianMV

<<The Surefire packaging is an inch longer than the USPS priority mail box that Tactical Response used. So they had to fold the packaging to make it fit. Not a big complaint, and I understand why they did it, but most companies probably would probably try to find better shipping boxes so as to not damage the packaging.>>

I saw that in a photo. Yeager had a thousand of the USPS boxes already assembled with some literature inside because guys were impatient and screaming for the light, so he wanted to expedite the process as soon as they came in. I can just imagine his reaction when he saw the boxes were a bit too small. :laughing:


----------



## tokaji

I have the 6PX tactical 200 lumens, and it really feels a bit bulky (and very slippery). The Tactician is even lighter than the E2L.

Less aluminium and less surface means less efficient cooling of the electronics (or more efficient electronics)


----------



## tokaji

New video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0_JUy5MF8A


----------



## kyhunter1

Awesome info from bubbatime. Its good to know that a 16650 will power it on. Im curious to know if it will give full output for any extended time. That will help me decide to purchase or not. I like all other features of this light.


----------



## TacticianMV

<<New video>>

You just beat me to it. 

He says rechargeables won't work in it (because Yeagar said he requested that) but we know they will.


----------



## tango44

Here is a comparison video with night scenes of the TACTICIAN AT 8:29...


----------



## Dead Reckoning

Wow. Thanks for doing the legwork. 

Good to know about the 16650. I’ll have to try out mine. My Tactician is waiting at home for after work.




bubbatime said:


> Just got my tactition in the mail. Comes with four batteries, two in the light and two in the packaging. The lanyard is smaller and different than any surefire lanyard I have ever seen before. It is not stretchy, or "shock" cord as James Yeager advocates the use of.
> 
> A Keeppower 16650 fits and works fine.
> 
> The lanyard ring is a single piece of blackened steel. It looks like they just sllipped it onto the tailcap, without the use of special tools. You could probably finagle it off without having to resort to cutting it off.
> 
> A E1D clicky tailcap fits but does not work. A Scout M600 ultra clicky tailcap fits but does not work.
> 
> The E2L clicky tailcap fits and works perfect. Click on, click off.
> 
> The old style two way clips will not fit. The new clip is wider, and thus, the skinnier older style will not fit into the slot.
> 
> The KX2-A and KX2-B head from an E2L fits and works fine on the Tactician.
> 
> The KL4 head from a L4 Lumamax fits and works fine on the Tactician.
> 
> The E2L 500 lumen head fits and works fine on the Tactitian body.
> 
> The 200 lumen LX2 head fits and works fine on the Tactician.
> 
> The Tactician head, mounted on a LX2 body, gives you three output levels. Screw the head down tight, press the tailcap lightly and you get medium output, perhaps 100 lumens. Press harder, and you get high, 800 lumens. Unscrew the head slightly and you get low, about 10 lumens. When the head is unscrewed lightly, you only get low, no matter if you press hard or light on the tailcap.
> 
> The Tactician head fits and works fine on a Surefire M600 scout ultra.
> 
> The tactician head fits on the E2L body and works perfect as designed. Tighten the head all the way, full brightness. Loosen the head slightly, comes on low 5 lumens.
> 
> The E2L body is almost identical to the Tactician body. Only real difference being the clip size.
> 
> The Surefire packaging is an inch longer than the USPS priority mail box that Tactical Response used. So they had to fold the packaging to make it fit. Not a big complaint, and I understand why they did it, but most companies probably would probably try to find better shipping boxes so as to not damage the packaging.
> 
> I have a feeling that the clicky lovers are going to love this light by simply adding the E2L clicky cap.
> 
> The tactician low does look brighter than 5 lumens to me. Id guestimate 15 lumens. But I have no equipment to verify.


----------



## edlex

My Tactician should be coming today. I’m looking forward to seeing if my Thyrm switchback 2.0 will fit.


----------



## teak

Mine didnt get delivered today. Was supposed to but didnt make it. My edcl2 did show up though.


----------



## MicroE

I spoke with a nice lady at SF Customer Service today. 
She said that the Tactician is now backordered until the end of January.
:-(


----------



## TacticianMV

Sign up for an email notification for when it comes in. BH may get it sooner, who knows. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1380610-REG/surefire_e2t_mv_tactician_led_flashlight.html

Mine just got here a few minutes ago.


----------



## Dead Reckoning

Came home to mine. I can gladly concur that the 16650 (Orbtronic) does work. Not sure in regards to run times.

I can also confirm that a KE2D-A head swaps out with the Tactician and visa versa.


----------



## TacticianMV

Gear Runner posted another video with beam comparisons. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8rgSBNORJA
I too put the shock cord on my Tactician. You pull it over the back of your hand and over the head and it stays in your palm giving you full use of that hand. Make it snug enough and you couldn't drop it if you want. The switch remains right by the thumb. This allows for mag changes etc. Fantastic.


----------



## Tachead

Can anyone comment on the approximate CCT of this light? Also, what the tint is like? Thanks:thumbsup:.


----------



## TacticianMV

I can say it is very white.


----------



## stephenthesuave

I'm kinda bummed about the clip. I was holding out hope that the two way clip could be swapped on. 

Not sure where this leaves me, except possibly buying one for the head to put on a rifle light that badly needs an update.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

JohnnyBravo said:


> Still thinking about owning this light. Called up SF just now, and they told me it's backordered until mid January.
> 
> Anyone, is that lanyard ring plastic or metal? Wondering if it's plastic and I heated it up w/ a hair dryer, if I could slip it off w/out cutting it...



Today they told me it would be Jan 18th.


----------



## mk2rocco

Let me know if anyone has questions that haven't been answered yet. I really am enjoying this light so far, just not a fan of bezel up carry.


----------



## Tachead

TacticianMV said:


> I can say it is very white.


Thanks👍.


----------



## Tachead

mk2rocco said:


> Let me know if anyone has questions that haven't been answered yet. I really am enjoying this light so far, just not a fan of bezel up carry.


Can you comment on the approximate CCT of this light? Also, what the tint is like? Thanks[emoji106].


----------



## mk2rocco

Tachead said:


> Can you comment on the approximate CCT of this light? Also, what the tint is like? Thanks[emoji106].


I'd put it around 5500k with the slightest green tint (I'm very, very picky) and almost no tint shift. It's pretty nice, not 5000k 219c nice but nice.


----------



## Tachead

mk2rocco said:


> I'd put it around 5000k with the slightest green (I'm very, very picky) and almost no tint shift.


Thank you very much sir. That is the exact kind of info I was looking for👍.


----------



## mk2rocco

Running a 16650 with a clicky [emoji106]


----------



## Flashlight Dave

mk2rocco said:


> Let me know if anyone has questions that haven't been answered yet. I really am enjoying this light so far, just not a fan of bezel up carry.


Noticing how shallow the tail cap button is leads me to ask just how easy it is to depress? The other gas pedal lights had a more protruding tail cap. And does that lanyard ring get in the way?


----------



## mk2rocco

Flashlight Dave said:


> Noticing how shallow the tail cap button is leads me to ask just how easy it is to depress? The other gas pedal lights had a more protruding tail cap. And does that lanyard ring get in the way?


The Tactician has a standard twisty tailcap, no gas pedal function. It has a very good feel, less firm and more travel than a 6P tailcap. You can leave the tail depressed for a long period of time without your thumb getting tired. It feels more like a vintage E series twisty.

The lanyard ring bugs me because I'm never going to use it. It rattles but doesn't seem to get in the way.


----------



## mk2rocco

Here's the tailcap taken apart...

Someone needs to make for find a pocket clip that fits the groove! It would make a great Lego for other e series lights 








Use caution or you'll scar your tailcap like I did. Luckily I don't care.






The pocket clip is larger than a standard E series clip.


----------



## RobertMM

That is how thick all SF clips should be, IMHO.


----------



## tokaji

Exactly!



RobertMM said:


> That is how thick all SF clips should be, IMHO.


----------



## JPA261

The pocket clip from the EDCL-2T works for the Tactician, so those that like bezel down carry have that option!


----------



## Sean

JPA261 said:


> The pocket clip from the EDCL-2T works for the Tactician, so those that like bezel down carry have that option!
> View attachment 6801
> View attachment 6802



So they beefed up the EDCL2-T clips as well. That’s good to hear. 

I already have an E2DL body and clickie tailcap so I can put the Tactician head on there if I want a bezel down clip and narrower tailcap. Looks like there are some great Lego possibilities! Now I just have to wait for the Tactician to ship from Surefire.



mk2rocco said:


> Running a 16650 with a clicky [emoji106]



So the standard clickie works on the Tactician, that’s good to know! And the 16650 works too! Can’t wait to get mine!


----------



## stephenthesuave

JPA261 said:


> The pocket clip from the EDCL-2T works for the Tactician, so those that like bezel down carry have that option!
> View attachment 6801
> View attachment 6802



...and I'm back IN on this light.

Thank you very much for this information.


----------



## teak

Mine showed up today. Very nice. Small like an e2e or an l4 was. Great tint and beam. Runs like normal off a 2500mah 16650.


----------



## teak

So. The tactitian head works well on a lx2 body. Nice low and if you unscrew the head you get an even lower low but only one output. With the head tight you get a 20 ish lumen low maybe a little more plus high when you press the tailcap fully.

Same cannot be said for the tactitian head on the edcl2 body. Only get high.


----------



## Jose Marin

teak said:


> Mine showed up today. Very nice. Small like an e2e or an l4 was. Great tint and beam. Runs like normal off a 2500mah 16650.



So it visually doesnt look dimmer on 16650?


----------



## teak

Jose Marin said:


> So it visually doesnt look dimmer on 16650?


Not to me. However I will be able to have a better answer when nightfall approaches.


----------



## Travis b

So now where do I get a new edcl clip to go on this thing?


----------



## dhunley1

I assume a Malkoff E2 scout head will work on the Tactician body? Can any verify? Really tempted to make the purchase, I just need a little push.


----------



## tokaji

new video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZofeKGsssg


----------



## teak

If anyone is wondering, the tactitian had a slightly lower low then the edcl2. I was trying to get an amps measurement but my meter wasn't cooperating.


----------



## teak




----------



## xdayv

@teak - thanks for sharing, was about to ask for a side-by-side photo. [emoji106]


----------



## Dead Reckoning

My spidey sense tells me people are really warming up to these two lights....


----------



## wacbzz

Does anybody have the clicky tailcap from the E1B MV to try on the Tactician?


----------



## Tachead

wacbzz said:


> Does anybody have the clicky tailcap from the E1B MV to try on the Tactician?


Check out post #295.


----------



## teak

Ok here is my view on the tactitian compared to the edcl2. 

I used both tonight around the house as well as outside. Size goes to the tactitian for sure. As well as the ability to attach a lanyard. The tactitian seems to run more normal on a 16650 over the edcl2. The edcl2 works fine on a 16650 with the exception of the low losing output. 

The maxvision beam is great. Nice tint. Id say around 5500k. Low is closer to the rated 5 lumens. Low is fairly useful as long as you are up close. Say out to 10 feet. High is very nice and is very wide. Useful to about 50 yards. You can see further of course but as far as identifying a person or animal, 50 yards is good. 

The interface is fine. Sure beats cycling through modes like eb1, ed1 etc. However. It isnt as quick going from one mode to the other of course. I still prefer how the interface is on the tactitian over the said eb2 etc. The pocket clip is robust and it will take some extra effort to break it. I do like that. I dont have a problem with the bezel up. Some may. 

Overall the tactitian is a great improvement over many of the older offerings. E2D EB2 etc. 

As for the edcl2. Size wise is ok but bigger then id like. Doesnt have an easy way to attach a lanyard. Interface is to me the best there is. Lx2 a2 l1 etc gas pedal switch. This latest version works very well. Nice travel and a great feel. The low is higher then the rated 5 lumens. Pretty close to the lx2. Using low on this light is very useful and low is pretty much all thats needed for general use. Beam wise is pretty wide. Much wider then the old tir of lx2 and others. Also better to me then the g2 led that was used in the 500 lumen eb2 e2dlu etc. High is a thing of beauty. Tint wise id say close to 4500k. Better throw then tactitian obviously due to the tir. Spill is very good as well and only giving the tactitian a slight edge in that department. To me the edcl2 is easier to use both modes due to the gas pedal tailcap, thats pretty obvious though. I really like them both and I'm going to keep them both. However if I had to choose just one id probably go with the edcl2. 

Below is a pic of the tactitian and the edcl2. Grain bin is roughly 80 yards. 

Tactician





Edcl2


----------



## TacticianMV

I was just using my Tactician out and about. I'd say it's a great tac light for civilians but cops would probably be better served with the EDCL2-T with the longer throw. Cops have to go find bad guys, civilians don't. I think the EDCL2-T has plenty of spill and throw for cops. Any one who needs a bright spot farther away should not rely on the tactician. I love it, and it works perfect for my needs, though.


----------



## wacbzz

Tachead said:


> Check out post #295.



Thanks for the heads up, but there is no indication of which click tailcap that is or what light it is from. Earlier in the thread (post #270), there was some great info on various SF parts that work with the Tactician and parts that don’t. Two different click tailcaps were listed as fitting, but not working. 

Thats why why I was asking specifically about the E1B MV tailcap.


----------



## Tachead

wacbzz said:


> Thanks for the heads up, but there is no indication of which click tailcap that is or what light it is from. Earlier in the thread (post #270), there was some great info on various SF parts that work with the Tactician and parts that don’t. Two different click tailcaps were listed as fitting, but not working.
> 
> Thats why why I was asking specifically about the E1B MV tailcap.


No problem, just ask Mk2rocco and I am sure he will let you know which one it is and how it works.


----------



## Viper715

My Surefire E1 click tailcap and Surefire Z68 click tailcap work. 

Surefire 2-way long clip fits just fine for me. 

Tactician head works on my bored E2 body

Tactician head fits and only works on low on my E1 body

Tactician head fits and only works on low on my Malkoff MDC body. 

Tactician head works just fine on 2*16340, 2*-18350, 2*18650 and 1*18650. 

Comparing output to my V5 Oveready E heads known levels I'd say the 800 lumen high is spot on and I'd say the 5 lumen low is probably a tad higher maybe 7-10 on my sample.


----------



## mk2rocco

There was talk about the clip slot being wider on the Tactician earlier in the thread. After reading Viper's post I tried one of my spare LX2 clips and it fits just fine 

My light is now exactly as planned for EDC.


----------



## Sean

mk2rocco said:


> There was talk about the clip slot being wider on the Tactician earlier in the thread. After reading Viper's post I tried one of my spare LX2 clips and it fits just fine
> 
> My light is now exactly as planned for EDC.







teak said:


> Ok here is my view on the tactitian compared to the edcl2.
> 
> I used both tonight around the house as well as outside. Size goes to the tactitian for sure. As well as the ability to attach a lanyard. The tactitian seems to run more normal on a 16650 over the edcl2. The edcl2 works fine on a 16650 with the exception of the low losing output.
> 
> The maxvision beam is great. Nice tint. Id say around 5500k. Low is closer to the rated 5 lumens. Low is fairly useful as long as you are up close. Say out to 10 feet. High is very nice and is very wide. Useful to about 50 yards. You can see further of course but as far as identifying a person or animal, 50 yards is good.
> 
> The interface is fine. Sure beats cycling through modes like eb1, ed1 etc. However. It isnt as quick going from one mode to the other of course. I still prefer how the interface is on the tactitian over the said eb2 etc. The pocket clip is robust and it will take some extra effort to break it. I do like that. I dont have a problem with the bezel up. Some may.
> 
> Overall the tactitian is a great improvement over many of the older offerings. E2D EB2 etc.
> 
> As for the edcl2. Size wise is ok but bigger then id like. Doesnt have an easy way to attach a lanyard. Interface is to me the best there is. Lx2 a2 l1 etc gas pedal switch. This latest version works very well. Nice travel and a great feel. The low is higher then the rated 5 lumens. Pretty close to the lx2. Using low on this light is very useful and low is pretty much all thats needed for general use. Beam wise is pretty wide. Much wider then the old tir of lx2 and others. Also better to me then the g2 led that was used in the 500 lumen eb2 e2dlu etc. High is a thing of beauty. Tint wise id say close to 4500k. Better throw then tactitian obviously due to the tir. Spill is very good as well and only giving the tactitian a slight edge in that department. To me the edcl2 is easier to use both modes due to the gas pedal tailcap, thats pretty obvious though. I really like them both and I'm going to keep them both. However if I had to choose just one id probably go with the edcl2.



Thanks for the info!


----------



## wacbzz

mk2rocco said:


> There was talk about the clip slot being wider on the Tactician earlier in the thread. After reading Viper's post I tried one of my spare LX2 clips and it fits just fine
> 
> My light is now exactly as planned for EDC.



What light is the tailcap that you are using in this picture from?


----------



## mk2rocco

wacbzz said:


> What light is the tailcap that you are using in this picture from?



It's a Z61, not sure what light it's from but it's the same tailcap the E1b MV uses. I may be wrong here, but the tail threads seem a hair shorter than other e series lights I have. Every tailcap I've tried has worked, but the SF clickys just barely make contact before they bottom out.

The tailcap in the picture has a modified McClicky and hard press boot. The modded McClicky switches are longer than the factory switch so no issues with not making contact.


----------



## wacbzz

mk2rocco said:


> It's a Z61, not sure what light it's from but it's the same tailcap the E1b MV uses. I may be wrong here, but the tail threads seem a hair shorter than other e series lights I have. Every tailcap I've tried has worked, but the SF clickys just barely make contact before they bottom out.
> 
> The tailcap in the picture has a modified McClicky and hard press boot. The modded McClicky switches are longer than the factory switch so no issues with not making contact.



Awesome info. Thank you! :twothumbs


----------



## Flashlight Dave

JPA261 said:


> The pocket clip from the EDCL-2T works for the Tactician, so those that like bezel down carry have that option!
> View attachment 6801
> View attachment 6802


Someone should ask Yeager why he chose bezel up for the light.


----------



## Viper715

He talks about his design decisions in his videos about designing the light over the last year. It's the same decision Surefire made in the beginning and he has been using their lights for many years. I suspect he trained with their early lights got use to it and has stuck to it throughout the years. From the point of view of a defensive tool in conjunction with a firearm if it ain't broke don't fix it.


----------



## kyhunter1

Flashlight Dave said:


> Someone should ask Yeager why he chose bezel up for the light.



There are a few of us that like being able to clip lights to the bill of a hat. Yeager understands this and stated it in his videos.


----------



## the0dore3524

kyhunter1 said:


> There are a few of us that like being able to clip lights to the bill of a hat. Yeager understands this and stated it in his videos.



The two way clip can’t do the same? Not being sarcastic, genuinely interested as I’ve never tried clipping my SFs to a cap.


----------



## kyhunter1

the0dore3524 said:


> The two way clip can’t do the same? Not being sarcastic, genuinely interested as I’ve never tried clipping my SFs to a cap.



You could do that, but the new style is much tougher and less likely to break. Also, Yeager liked bezel up better from a tactical standpoint. He mentioned both of these in his vids. I have been clipping lights to my hats for years now. My favorites are a Eagletac D25LC2 and a Xeno S3AV2. Neutral tint and 18650’s in both. These have served me well and never actually got around to buying a dedicated headlamp. I will be getting a tactician at some point down the line.


----------



## TacticianMV

I agree, Yeager got used to the old way, so why change it? Also, he complained about some of the heads spikes tearing up his jeans. As for the two-way clips, he complained they break a lot, which makes sense for someone like him that carries the light 7 days per week without fail. Also, some of the heads were big and better to not sit on them. But the two-way ones work, are they available to buy?


----------



## kyhunter1

TacticianMV said:


> I agree, Yeager got used to the old way, so why change it? Also, he complained about some of the heads spikes tearing up his jeans. As for the two-way clips, he complained they break a lot, which makes sense for someone like him that carries the light 7 days per wek without fail. Also, some of the heads were big and better to not sit on them. But the two-way ones work, are they available to buy?



SF will replace them on warranty but not sell them. Im not aware of any other place to buy. If your lucky, you can catch take offs on the Marketplace here sometimes.


----------



## xdayv

The more I read, the more I'm drawn to the Tactician!


----------



## sidfishez

The E1B MV tailcap works on the Tactician. It is the same as the old E1e cap from what I have seen. I tried both the MV cap and a stock E2e and E1e off my other lights and they all work.


----------



## Schuflea

I have had my tactician since Tues as well. 
Does anyone know the throw of the beam? It is bright as hell and works well. It’s my new edc and fits well like the lumamax but more lumens. Don’t know why anyone would want to go with a clicky tailcap as this light is meant for self defense use. But hey your prerogative. 
I was carrying an eb2 but with this smaller head it fits well. Has anyone tried out the edc2T at 1200 lumens? Thoughts?


----------



## Modernflame

Just curious if anyone has tested the current draw @6v. Also, when does the step down occur?


----------



## tokaji

Here you can see a few pics about the edcl2 at 1200 lumens:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?439979-SUREFIRE-EDCL-2T/page17






Schuflea said:


> I have had my tactician since Tues as well.
> Does anyone know the throw of the beam? It is bright as hell and works well. It’s my new edc and fits well like the lumamax but more lumens. Don’t know why anyone would want to go with a clicky tailcap as this light is meant for self defense use. But hey your prerogative.
> I was carrying an eb2 but with this smaller head it fits well. Has anyone tried out the edc2T at 1200 lumens? Thoughts?


----------



## Badbeams3

Yet another light I totally fail to understand.


----------



## tokaji

Could you please tell me what kind of light(s) do you use?



Badbeams3 said:


> Yet another light I totally fail to understand.


----------



## Tachead

Badbeams3 said:


> Yet another light I totally fail to understand.


What's not to understand?

This is a purpose built light designed by a highly experienced firearms and tactics instructor. It is primarily designed to be an illumination tool used in conjunction with a firearm in high stress situations. But, it also has the addition of a safely actuated low(not easily accidentally activated) to allow it to function as a close range task light as well.


----------



## Badbeams3

tokaji said:


> Could you please tell me what kind of light(s) do you use?



Well for example I have a smallish 26650 Thrunite TC20 on order. Brand has been very dependable for me. $72 (as of right now) bucks including battery, holster, usb cable...320~350 meters throw, 3800 lumen, 5 levels available...latest Cree XHP 70 2nd gen emitter. Of course I have all kinds of lights.








What I can't fathom is the price for what you get. 2 level light with 5 lumen being the lower level, means you will run on high more often than not. Short run time, non rechargeable batteries = very high cost of operation...or a seldom used light. And little flexibility. And I don't really think most folks here run around chasing drug lords N such. To me it seems like very poor value. Especially since flashlights are improving at a fast rate. At a much lower price I could grasp it, a well made, dependable little light with the cool factor of the Surefire brand name...maybe $50 bucks. Basic two level tail switch light.


----------



## scout24

I don't have one and won't buy one, but it's been stated the 16650 cell works fine in these. As to the rest of your points, SF sold lights similar to these for years to the masses, and don't seem to have many languishing in warehouses. They must have a clue...


----------



## Lumencrazy

Badbeams3 said:


> Well for example I have a smallish 26650 Thrunite TC20 on order. Brand has been very dependable for me. $72 (as of right now) bucks including battery, holster, usb cable...320~350 meters throw, 3800 lumen, 5 levels available...latest Cree XHP 70 2nd gen emitter. Of course I have all kinds of lights.
> 
> What I can't fathom is the price for what you get. 2 level light with 5 lumen being the lower level, means you will run on high more often than not. Short run time, non rechargeable batteries = very high cost of operation...or a seldom used light. And little flexibility. And I don't really think most folks here run around chasing drug lords N such. To me it seems like very poor value. Especially since flashlights are improving at a fast rate. At a much lower price I could grasp it, a well made, dependable little light with the cool factor of the Surefire brand name...maybe $50 bucks. Basic two level tail switch light.



It’s called the Tactician so it will sell to the many “Sofa Soldiers” out there. Good Marketing!


----------



## Flashlight Dave

Badbeams3 said:


> Well for example I have a smallish 26650 Thrunite TC20 on order. Brand has been very dependable for me. $72 (as of right now) bucks including battery, holster, usb cable...320~350 meters throw, 3800 lumen, 5 levels available...latest Cree XHP 70 2nd gen emitter. Of course I have all kinds of lights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I can't fathom is the price for what you get. 2 level light with 5 lumen being the lower level, means you will run on high more often than not. Short run time, non rechargeable batteries = very high cost of operation...or a seldom used light. And little flexibility. And I don't really think most folks here run around chasing drug lords N such. To me it seems like very poor value. Especially since flashlights are improving at a fast rate. At a much lower price I could grasp it, a well made, dependable little light with the cool factor of the Surefire brand name...maybe $50 bucks. Basic two level tail switch light.



This is the typical response many have to Surefire lights. 1. You seem to be interested in some sort of task light. Surefire does not do many of them and this light is not a task light. 2. You are paying for quality, a quality that you are not getting in those $70 lights. Surefire likes to keep things simple thus the reason for two modes. There are others who make quality lights and their prices are the same or much more. You might just have to own one to understand.


----------



## Badbeams3

scout24 said:


> I don't have one and won't buy one, but it's been stated the 16650 cell works fine in these. As to the rest of your points, SF sold lights similar to these for years to the masses, and don't seem to have many languishing in warehouses. They must have a clue...



They got a good marketing.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

Most Police use Streamlight.


----------



## tokaji

Luckily, there are so many brands, options, price and quality ranges of flashlights that everybody can find what suits for her/his need. For example, I use the 5 lumen mode on my E2L daily and 95% of time. 



Badbeams3 said:


> Well for example I have a smallish 26650 Thrunite TC20 on order. Brand has been very dependable for me. $72 (as of right now) bucks including battery, holster, usb cable...320~350 meters throw, 3800 lumen, 5 levels available...latest Cree XHP 70 2nd gen emitter. Of course I have all kinds of lights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I can't fathom is the price for what you get. 2 level light with 5 lumen being the lower level, means you will run on high more often than not. Short run time, non rechargeable batteries = very high cost of operation...or a seldom used light. And little flexibility. And I don't really think most folks here run around chasing drug lords N such. To me it seems like very poor value. Especially since flashlights are improving at a fast rate. At a much lower price I could grasp it, a well made, dependable little light with the cool factor of the Surefire brand name...maybe $50 bucks. Basic two level tail switch light.


----------



## dhunley1

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to make such a silly comparison. Blows my mind that people care so much about what other people spend their money on.


----------



## Tachead

Badbeams3 said:


> They got a good marketing.


Those are probably real soldiers man. 

You do know that Surefire is one of the most used lights by law enforcement, government agencies, and militaries around the world right? They are one if the only illumination companies that has several lighting products on the NSN list. They also make several other high end firearms related products like suppressors, muzzle brakes, magazines, and signing devices. Many of these products are also widely used by these agencies listed above and some have won many government contracts over the years.

Surefire makes lights for professionals. Yes, some normal people buy them too but, they are in a different class then a company like Thrunite. They cost more for a reason.


----------



## kyhunter1

Go tell the Iraq and Afgan vets to carry thrunites, olights, or what ever into battle. You will get laughed to scorn. I have read where US soldiers had surefire’s attached to their M4’s and were hit by road side bombs. They were killed, the vehicle destroyed, the rifle is inoperative, but the Surefire’s still turned on. That is why they cost what they cost. The tactician is purpose built to handle these extreme situations and the price is reflective of that.


----------



## Badbeams3

I did not know so many here were headed off to battle. Why not the Surefire G2X...similar light, lower price. Same 800 lumens high...but with a more practical (I think) 15 lumen low?

http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/g2x-max-vision.html


----------



## the0dore3524

Badbeams3 said:


> I did not know so many here were headed off to battle. Why not the Surefire G2X...similar light, lower price. Same 800 lumens high...but with a more practical (I think) 15 lumen low?
> 
> http://www.surefire.com/illumination/flashlights/g2x-max-vision.html



As others have said, the Tactician is a tactically orientated light - hence the name “Tactician”. The G2X uses a click-type switch. The Tactician, however, uses a true tactical twisty UI. Simple and no room for error under stress. Clickies, like all mechanical/moving parts, are also more prone to failure I believe.


----------



## Badbeams3

kyhunter1 said:


> Go tell the Iraq and Afgan vets to carry thrunites, olights, or what ever into battle. You will get laughed to scorn. I have read where US soldiers had surefire’s attached to their M4’s and were hit by road side bombs. They were killed, the vehicle destroyed, the rifle is inoperative, but the Surefire’s still turned on. That is why they cost what they cost. The tactician is purpose built to handle these extreme situations and the price is reflective of that.



Do you actually know any vets that used a Surefire? The two vets I know had no idea what brand lights they used over there, not into flashlights...only that they got them at the Base Exchange. Find the Surefires.

https://www.shopmyexchange.com/s?No=0&Nrpp=30&Ntt=flashlight


----------



## tokaji

Of course, there are other companies who manufacture high end flashlights (just like cars, watches, pens etc).

Here are some battle oriented story with Surefire lights:
http://www.surefire.com/truestories/cat/supporting-our-troops



Badbeams3 said:


> Do you actually know any vets that used a Surefire? The two vets I know had know idea what brand lights they used over there, not into flashlights...only that they got them at the Base Exchange. Find the Surefires.
> 
> https://www.shopmyexchange.com/s?No=0&Nrpp=30&Ntt=flashlight


----------



## kyhunter1

Yes. My wife's nephew done two tours in Iraq in the 2006 time frame. He carried surefires. He was never hit but was in combat. He does not like to talk about it, so I never quizzed him too much on the lights used. I know he had a surefire attached to his M4, and used a 6P after he came back. 




Badbeams3 said:


> Do you actually know any vets that used a Surefire? The two vets I know had know idea what brand lights they used over there, not into flashlights...only that they got them at the Base Exchange. Find the Surefires.
> 
> https://www.shopmyexchange.com/s?No=0&Nrpp=30&Ntt=flashlight


----------



## dhunley1

Although I'm still on the fence about the Tactician, for me, it would serve a very specific purpose. Spend some time in Detroit at night and you'll learn to appreciate this sort of UI.


----------



## bigfoot

dhunley1 said:


> Blows my mind that people care so much about what other people spend their money on.



Nailed it. :thumbsup:

"I don't use it / want it / need it, so nobody does."

I'm just glad there are choices out there for all of us. If we all had the same exact lights, this would be a boring place!

lovecpf


----------



## Badbeams3

So as folks can see, the Base Exchange does not even carry Surefires, *not even one*...but rather Streamlights...and a host of other lights.


----------



## Badbeams3

the0dore3524 said:


> As others have said, the Tactician is a tactically orientated light - hence the name “Tactician”. The G2X uses a click-type switch. The Tactician, however, uses a true tactical twisty UI. Simple and no room for error under stress. Clickies, like all mechanical/moving parts, are also more prone to failure I believe.



Ok, now I'm way lost. A...tactical...TWISTY? What is a tactical twisty?


----------



## tokaji

If you don't understand what it is, you do not need it. There are many more lights to choose from.



Badbeams3 said:


> Ok, now I'm way lost. A...tactical...TWISTY? What is a tactical twisty?


----------



## Badbeams3

tokaji said:


> If you don't understand what it is, you do not need it. There are many more lights to choose from.



I think your just pulling my leg. Tactical twisty...good one!


----------



## mk2rocco

We need a moderator in here... Everything was going so well until this point, please don't feed the nonsense anymore.


----------



## HeathHudnall

mk2rocco said:


> We need a moderator in here... Everything was going so well until this point, please don't feed the nonsense anymore.


I couldn't agree more. I'm on the edge of unsubscribing.


----------



## Badbeams3

HeathHudnall said:


> I couldn't agree more. I'm on the edge of unsubscribing.



Tell you what, I'll stay out of this thread. Leave you all be. Have fun.

Lot of new reviews up on YouTube about this light...enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Surefire+tactician


----------



## archimedes

mk2rocco said:


> We need a moderator in here... Everything was going so well until this point, please don't feed the nonsense anymore.





Badbeams3 said:


> Tell you what, I'll stay out of this thread. Leave you all be. Have fun.



Yes ... discussion, debate, and even disagreement is fine, as long as it remains civil and polite.

No more baiting and trolling, however ... thanks


----------



## bykfixer

Wow, wow, wow!!! Things sure changed while I was drilling a hole in a clip of my new EDCL2-T.... 

While drilling said hole my mind was contemplating if a Tactician will be on my 2018 list. 

It looks like a great light. I've always liked the idea of a twisty while playing 'sofa soldier' and often use a clicky with lockout as a twisty. 
It's a "home invasion thing" for me and although I appreciate the near silent clicky of my Bones, when it's on the bedside table it's about 3-5° rotated into lockout. 
At 2am if I hear an invader is in my home, that click sound may be loud enough to alert the perp that they are about to experience a blinding event. 

I chose the EDCL2-T for the time I have to sneak up on a perp in my den. 
I don't hold any malice for any of the discount light makers, but I don't own a single one for times like I described. 

I think the new group of 'gas pedal' operated SureFire are winners and will be well received by those who need their light to absolutely, positively work every time.


----------



## Tachead

Badbeams3 said:


> Do you actually know any vets that used a Surefire? The two vets I know had no idea what brand lights they used over there, not into flashlights...only that they got them at the Base Exchange. Find the Surefires.
> 
> https://www.shopmyexchange.com/s?No=0&Nrpp=30&Ntt=flashlight



Surefire has a had a number of government contracts over the years for their weapon accessories and illumination tools. So, yes soldiers use them. I believe the US special forces and frogs use almost exclusively Surefire weapon lights. Surefire is also one of the only companies that makes lights and sighting equipment for the militaries various IR tools. Many government agencies and LE use them as well. 

I think another thing you should keep in mind is Surefire has been making lights for almost 33 years and laser sighting products for almost 40. Many of the designs, technologies, and concepts now used in the handheld lighting industry were invented by Surefire and many brands(including Thrunite like you referenced) might not even exist or have what the have without them.

The base exchange lol. Do you even know what the NSN list is? A number of Surefire lighting products are on it. Try and find some Thrunites lol.

http://www.surefire.com/nsn_ordering


----------



## Tachead

Badbeams3 said:


> Ok, now I'm way lost. A...tactical...TWISTY? What is a tactical twisty?



You clearly have no training in lighting or firearms tactics. Do you even own a firearm? I am guessing not. You also don't seem to understand the materials, design differences, and build quality that account for the price difference between different brands. That is why you don't understand most of Surefire's products. Understand that not everyone has the same needs or uses for a flashlight. What may work for you and your uses might not work for others or the applications they want to use them for. Please don't criticize others choices in lights or the reason why certain brands and models cost more when you don't even understand the reasons why. It's not cool man:thumbsdow.


----------



## Tachead

mk2rocco said:


> We need a moderator in here... Everything was going so well until this point, please don't feed the nonsense anymore.



+1


----------



## Tachead

Badbeams3 said:


> Tell you what, I'll stay out of this thread. Leave you all be. Have fun.
> 
> Lot of new reviews up on YouTube about this light...enjoy.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Surefire+tactician



Thank you:thumbsup:


----------



## mk2rocco

I'm back the the original pocket clip, the 2 way is just a little too flimsy. Also if anyone wants to ditch the lanyard loop check out the twisty tailcaps from Lumens Factory [emoji106]


----------



## archimedes

@Tachead no more personal attacks, courtesy goes both ways

I don't want to have to lock this thread


----------



## HeathHudnall

I'm likin' this thing just as Yeager intended, I ditched the lanyard for some "shock cord" on day one.


----------



## tokaji

Could somebody please show us some low mode pics?


----------



## Tachead

archimedes said:


> @Tachead no more personal attacks, courtesy goes both ways
> 
> I don't want to have to lock this thread



I wasn't personally attacking but, just telling it like it is. He clearly doesn't understand the design/build purpose of this light and even admitted it in his first post. I am sorry though if anyone interpreted it as a lack of courtesy but, to me, coming into a thread and criticizing and putting down something you don't even understand shows a lack of courtesy. 

Anyway, I respect your opinion and directions Archi and will not discuss this further, I am sorry. Please don't lock the thread.


----------



## HeathHudnall

"Low mode"


----------



## mk2rocco

tokaji said:


> Could somebody please show us some low mode pics?


I'll take some tonight. I'm going to get some outdoor shots if it's not raining. 

I'm also going to compare low and high on cr123s and a 16650. Anyone have any pointers or input? I'm thinking I'll take pictures with fresh 123s and a fresh 16650, then run then both for 40mins and compare again. All camera setting will not be changed between shots.


----------



## TacticianMV

I can't upload attachments yet. Can someone with a shock cord show how it glues the light to your palm? I could get hit by a tow truck and I wouldn't drop this light. For the knot in the shock cord, I melted it just a bit, not too much, when it cooled I coated it with super glue. When that set up, I clipped of the tails. I bought several yards of it from Amazon - 1/8th inch. Works great. 

BTW, I don't understand gravity, but I'm not going to deny it's existence or usefulness.:sigh:


----------



## Tachead

mk2rocco said:


> I'll take some tonight. I'm going to get some outdoor shots if it's not raining.
> 
> I'm also going to compare low and high on cr123s and a 16650. Anyone have any pointers or input? I'm thinking I'll take pictures with fresh 123s and a fresh 16650, then run then both for 40mins and compare again. All camera setting will not be changed between shots.



I look forward to this. Thanks man:thumbsup:.


----------



## HeathHudnall

TacticianMV said:


> I can't upload attachments yet. Can someone with a shock cord show how it glues the light to your palm? I could get hit by a tow truck and I wouldn't drop this light. BTW, I don't understand gravity, but I'm not going to deny it's existence or usefulness.:sigh:


Gravity is a theory my friend, it can't be proven.


----------



## Daniel_sk

TacticianMV - You can upload the picture to a service like http://imgur.com and then just share the link here or you can also include the link to the picture as a attachment (click the Image icon while composing a message - but you have to post a direct link to the file).


----------



## Tachead

mk2rocco said:


> I'm back the the original pocket clip, the 2 way is just a little too flimsy. Also if anyone wants to ditch the lanyard loop check out the twisty tailcaps from Lumens Factory [emoji106]



The lanyard loop can be removed as well by unscrewing the end of the tail cap. 

Nice pic:thumbsup:.


----------



## tokaji

Thank you for the pic!


----------



## TacticianMV

Thanks! When I saw Yeager do this in a video, it immediatey struck me how incredibly useful this is. Can't drop it, and you can use that hand for reloads or whatever. And it's always oriented for immediate use.

Daniel_SK -- Thanks.


----------



## HeathHudnall

TacticianMV said:


> Thanks! When I saw Yeager do this in a video, it immediatey struck me how incr5edibly useful this is. Can't drop it, and you can use that hand for reloads or whatever. And it's always oriented for immediate use.


Yes it is very easily accessible when attach to your hand, no adjusting, just close your hand and it's perfect.


----------



## mk2rocco

Going to try this lanyard setup out


----------



## bykfixer

Olight sells a one size fits most type.




You can cinch it up to your hand or wrist or leave it loose.
I paid like $2 ea and they come with a nifty velcro Olight patch for your combat ballcap.


----------



## HeathHudnall

mk2rocco said:


> Going to try this lanyard setup out


I cut the draw cord from the bottom of an under armour jacket.


bykfixer said:


> Olight sells a one size fits most type.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can cinch it up to your hand or wrist or leave it loose.
> I paid like $2 ea and they come with a nifty velcro Olight patch for your combat ballcap.


That looks similar to what the tactician comes with.


----------



## bykfixer

This is my personal favorite kind
But the thick cord requires a lanyard ring for bigger bodies. 
Sewing stores sell the cord cinchers and end caps if you want to make your own from thinner cord.


----------



## Tachead

HeathHudnall said:


> I cut the draw cord from the bottom of an under armour jacket.That looks similar to what the tactician comes with.



Shock cord is readily available in almost any colour and thickness you want too guys. It is pretty cheap too and it's very easy to make your own custom lanyard.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WP2737Z/?tag=cpf0b6-20


----------



## Modernflame

Based on Yaeger's videos, I'm surprised the light comes with an ordinary lanyard. I'd have expected shock cord.


----------



## teak

Wow. Just got caught up on the reading. I was beginning to think I was in the ar15com forums for a second. Lets not get the thread I started locked please. I would like to keep it tactician related. Lol

The Tactician and I arent the best of friends I have found out from use. I do like it but I like my edcl2 much better. Darn the luck because the edcl2 was just an after thought for me. I planned on running the tactician. I actually find the beam on the edcl2 to work better for me. In use the spill isnt much less then the tactician. It just has a brighter hot spot. Lets keep hearing some real world usage guys!


----------



## wacbzz

teak said:


> The Tactician and I arent the best of friends I have found out from use. I do like it but I like my edcl2 much better.



Dibs when it goes up for sale!


----------



## teak

wacbzz said:


> Dibs when it goes up for sale!


[emoji14]


----------



## Harry999

I have purchased some shock cord while I wait for my light to be shipped to me. I used to use paracord before on my lights but I think the shock cord will work better. Getting everything ready for when the light arrives...


----------



## mk2rocco

Midway through some beamshots... I'll have then posted in an hour or 2


----------



## mk2rocco

Here's what I got...

Close trees are ~30feet
Far trees are ~125feet


----------



## mk2rocco

I'm am very impressed with the brightest after 1 hour on CR123 cells! In use you really can't tell the difference in brightness.


----------



## mk2rocco

I took pictures in low with different batteries but there is no reason to post them. There is absolutely no difference.


----------



## xdayv

@mk2rocco -thanks for posting these beam shots, would you prefer to use CR123s are your default battery or 16650?


----------



## mk2rocco

I'm running an unprotected 2500mah 16650. The difference in brightness is hardly noticable.


----------



## Sean

mk2rocco said:


> I'm running an unprotected 2500mah 16650. The difference in brightness is hardly noticable.



Thanks for the pics! When I get my Tactician I plan on running 16650s in it so I’m happy to see they work so well.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

tokaji said:


> Luckily, there are so many brands, options, price and quality ranges of flashlights that everybody can find what suits for her/his need. For example, I use the 5 lumen mode on my E2L daily and 95% of time.



I use my latest generation E2L as a night light. I use it every night as well.


----------



## xdayv

mk2rocco said:


> I'm running an unprotected 2500mah 16650. The difference in brightness is hardly noticable.


thanks, how about protected?


----------



## mk2rocco

xdayv said:


> thanks, how about protected?


I avoid protected cells when I can. They have an increased risk of failing due to the protection circuit.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

mk2rocco said:


> I'm back the the original pocket clip, the 2 way is just a little too flimsy. Also if anyone wants to ditch the lanyard loop check out the twisty tailcaps from Lumens Factory [emoji106]


That is a much more handsome tail cap. Can you provide a link for us?


----------



## mk2rocco

Flashlight Dave said:


> That is a much more handsome tail cap. Can you provide a link for us?


http://www.lumensfactory.com/online_shop_product.php?id=371&cid=14&sid=&page=1


----------



## Daniel_sk

Wow, thank you mk2rocco for these great beamshots. Do you have a EDCL2 by any chance? Can you make the same beamshots with it? :candle:


----------



## tokaji

+1 

Great beamshots! Thank you! I won't buy this light, because it seems it has much more less throw than what I thought. 



Daniel_sk said:


> Wow, thank you mk2rocco for these great beamshots. Do you have a EDCL2 by any chance? Can you make the same beamshots with it? :candle:


----------



## mk2rocco

Daniel_sk said:


> Wow, thank you mk2rocco for these great beamshots. Do you have a EDCL2 by any chance? Can you make the same beamshots with it? :candle:


You buy and I'll take the beamshots! But really... I want to pick one up soon, maybe in the next few weeks.

Also I can see why you guys like the shock cord lanyards. I love being able to use both hands while having the light ready.


----------



## HeathHudnall

mk2rocco said:


> You buy and I'll take the beamshots! But really... I want to pick one up soon, maybe in the next few weeks.
> 
> Also I can see why you guys like the shock cord lanyards. I love being able to use both hands while having the light ready.


Thanks for the beams shots. Yeah I really think the shock cord is the way to go with the lanyard.


----------



## xdayv

Tachead said:


> Shock cord is readily available in almost any colour and thickness you want too guys. It is pretty cheap too and it's very easy to make your own custom lanyard.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WP2737Z/?tag=cpf0b6-20



What thickness would you advise?


----------



## jkevind11

Where are these 16650 batteries being purchased that are being used in the Surefire Tactician ?


----------



## Daniel_sk

These are rechargeable Li-Ion batteries. 16650 is a battery that has a length of two CR123A batteries, and 4.2V. They have a capacity of abou 2500 mAh. You can do a google search for Keeppower 16650 which is a well known manufacturer. 
These are prefered to 2x rechargeable RCR123A due to higher capacity - but not all flashlights work with these due to lower voltage (2x CR123A have 6V).


----------



## Tachead

xdayv said:


> What thickness would you advise?


Well, Type III Mil Spec paracord is about 4mm or about 5/32 for you USA folk(if you are familiar with it). But, they don't appear to have 5/32. I have 1/8 and 1/4 shock cord(for other applications) and I think 1/4 is definitely too thick. 1/8 should work nicely. Or, 3/16 if you want it to be a bit beefy. Personally, I think 1/8 is adequate.


----------



## xdayv

Tachead said:


> Well, Type III Mil Spec paracord is about 4mm or about 5/32 for you USA folk(if you are fimiliar with it). But, they don't appear to have 5/32. I have 1/8 and 1/4 shock cord(for other applications) and I think 1/4 is definitely too thick. 1/8 should work nicely. Or, 3/16 if you want it to be a bit beefy. Personally, I think 1/8 is adequate.



Thanks @Tachead. Will try either the 1/8 or 3/16. [emoji106]


----------



## bykfixer

Think about safety when choosing a size.
Wrapping 1/8" thick shock cord around your hand would be like wrapping a guitar string around it.
In the event of a snag that could be real bad, real quick. You might consider a breakaway feature, just in case....


----------



## xdayv

Thanks @bykfixer for the heads-up, will definitely consider those points. [emoji106]


----------



## Tachead

bykfixer said:


> Think about safety when choosing a size.
> Wrapping 1/8" thick shock cord around your hand would be like wrapping a guitar string around it.
> In the event of a snag that could be real bad, real quick. You might consider a breakaway feature, just in case....



Lol, I think you are being a bit dramatic Byk. Remember it is shock cord(very elastic) and it is not that thin at all. It looks like that is what mk2rocco is using in the pics above. Here is some orange reflective 1/8 around my hand for reference...






Plus, I said he could go with 3/16 if he wanted it to be a bit more beefy. And, 1/4 is way too thick for this application imo.


----------



## Tachead

Here is 1/4" shock cord for comparison...







It is way too large for a lanyard imo. I would not go larger then 3/16 personally and I think 1/8" is fine too.


----------



## bykfixer

Hey, I tried... 

I work with 4 fingered fellows who'll tell ya, even a wedding band can snag and rip off a finger...
We use flexible string to establish a straight line and you won't see a single person wrap it around their hand. 
The one guy who did it way back when was nicknamed "lefty" after it ripped his hand off...


----------



## Tachead

bykfixer said:


> Hey, I tried...
> 
> I work with 4 fingered fellows who'll tell ya, even a wedding band can snag and rip off a finger...
> We use flexible string to establish a straight line and you won't see a single person wrap it around their hand.
> The one guy who did it way back when was nicknamed "lefty" after it ripped his hand off...


Lol, yeah I totally agree you have to be careful if you are working around machinery. I was a mechanic for many years and I never wore any kind of strings, rings, bracelets, watches etc. on me at work.

But, considering the main design purpose of this light the last thing I want is it coming off my hand because of firearm recoil or during a battle with an assailant.

I suppose it all depends on what the user with be using it for. A breakaway feature would definitely be a good idea if one will be using it at work around machinery.


----------



## FrankW438

Is the SF Tactician in stock anywhere? I can't tell if it's backordered on surefire.com or not.

Thanks!

-- Frank


----------



## the0dore3524

It’s not in stock anywhere, and SF is backordered until the end of January at the very least I believe. There is one on the auction site going for auction, but I expect it will go for higher than the MSRP as there is low supply and high demand.


----------



## FrankW438

the0dore3524 said:


> It’s not in stock anywhere, and SF is backordered until the end of January at the very least I believe. There is one on the auction site going for auction, but I expect it will go for higher than the MSRP as there is low supply and high demand.



Thanks!


----------



## pomah

Hi any run time data on cr123 and 16650?


----------



## teak

So, as I mentioned before, the tactician head works well on a LX2 body. With the head tight you get a nice useful low. Id say 25 lumens. If you want less of a low, loosen the head and you get roughly 5 lumens or so. Small package as well.


----------



## bykfixer

Cool!!!


----------



## edlex

I’m really happy with my Tactician but yesterday it burned a hole through my shirt! Apparently I didn’t back off the tail cap enough and it actuated the light while I was driving. I started to smell something burning when I noticed the heat coming from my left rear pocket. So FYI back off the tail cap until it only actuates by pressing the switch.


----------



## Bronc6901

Thanks Teak for trying that head on an Lx2. You kind of made the Lx2 we always wanted. This may have already been mentioned somewhere but does the tactician head work on the edcl2-t body? Or does the edcl2-t tail cap work on the tactician? Thanks


----------



## teak

Bronc6901 said:


> Thanks Teak for trying that head on an Lx2. You kind of made the Lx2 we always wanted. This may have already been mentioned somewhere but does the tactician head work on the edcl2-t body? Or does the edcl2-t tail cap work on the tactician? Thanks


The tactician head works on the edcl2. However. You pretty much only get a single mode. The low barely changes from the high output when you light press the tailcap. Tailcaps do not interchange on either. The threads are longer on the edcl2 and it has a much longer spring.


----------



## Bronc6901

Too bad. I was wondering how the tactician head would look on the edcl1-t. But looks like that won’t be happening.


----------



## Venom505

Hello everybody. Been reading this thread since it got started way back when. I preordered 2 of these lights when then link was up. I was using a tan eb2 backup. I personally like the "whiter tint" of this light more. However i do find myself missing the longer throw of the eb2. Thinking of purchasing a edcl2t for comparison. Or maybe trading that extra Tactician towards it.


----------



## kyhunter1

Has anybody ran the tactician on a 16650 for a extended length of time?


----------



## Tachead

kyhunter1 said:


> Has anybody ran the tactician on a 16650 for a extended length of time?



See post #398 and 399:thumbsup:.


----------



## bykfixer

Venom505 said:


> Hello everybody. Been reading this thread since it got started way back when. I preordered 2 of these lights when then link was up. I was using a tan eb2 backup. I personally like the "whiter tint" of this light more. However i do find myself missing the longer throw of the eb2. Thinking of purchasing a edcl2t for comparison. Or maybe trading that extra Tactician towards it.



Unless you like the length of a 2xAA with the girth of an EB you may want to hold out for the EDCL1-T to arrive.

The 2-T has a retina blistering football field away beam no doubt. But between the extra length of the head and tailcap it may be longer than some prefer.

I had mine beside a 2xAA on my coffee table in tv light and grabbed the 2-T thinking it was the AA. Pictures of the 1-T appear like it's close to the EB1 length.





I really like the length but...
Others may think it's too long.





Here's a few to compare the 2-T to.


----------



## xdayv

What makes the EDCL2 particularly longer than the Tactician? Is it the tailcap?


----------



## teak

Head and tailcap are longer then tactician. Plus the threads on the edcl2 are longer as well.


----------



## xdayv

teak said:


> Head and tailcap are longer then tactician. Plus the threads on the edcl2 are longer as well.


@teak thanks! I still don't know which of the 2.


----------



## jkevind11

Both [emoji4]


----------



## teak

jkevind11 said:


> Both [emoji4]


Ha. Yes. I went with both. Might as well


----------



## TacticianMV

*SureFire Tactician Update from Yeager on orders (his new channel)*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS0wGwwdKLk


:hahaha:Also, an unboxing and review from a trainer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW15Ap0BCIE

And a couple others:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5ioqkjjjXc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5ioqkjjjXc


----------



## Nimitz68

TacticianMV, thanks for posting these links. Still trying to decide on one of these, and all information is helpful.


----------



## Blades

teak said:


> So, as I mentioned before, the tactician head works well on a LX2 body. With the head tight you get a nice useful low. Id say 25 lumens. If you want less of a low, loosen the head and you get roughly 5 lumens or so. Small package as well.





I like the LX2 hybrid.


----------



## mk2rocco

I was playing around with my Tactician and found that my BOSS head wrenches fit the Tactician head...

I replaced the flat gasket with a more traditional o-ring because when I tightened everything down the gasket would bunch up and not sit flat.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

mk2rocco said:


> I was playing around with my Tactician and found that my BOSS head wrenches fit the Tactician head...
> 
> I replaced the flat gasket with a more traditional o-ring because when I tightened everything down the gasket would bunch up and not sit flat.


Did you have to heat the head?


----------



## mk2rocco

Flashlight Dave said:


> Did you have to heat the head?


Nope, the head wrenches made it pretty easy.


----------



## bubbatime




----------



## Daniel_sk

Thanks for the comparison picture. I think the EDCL2-T length is a bit exaggerated because of the unscrewed tailcap? (looks like that).


----------



## bubbatime

Daniel_sk said:


> Thanks for the comparison picture. I think the EDCL2-T length is a bit exaggerated because of the unscrewed tailcap? (looks like that).



That was fresh out of the package, and I hadn't even screwed the lockout tailcap in yet. Yeah in its proper configuration is about 1/10th of an inch shorter.


----------



## bykfixer

Pix in post 437 were with it a quarter turn before constant on low.


----------



## archimedes

Two posts were removed.

A reminder ... discussion threads are for discussion please, sales threads are for sales.

Thanks


----------



## Tachead

mk2rocco said:


> I'm back the the original pocket clip, the 2 way is just a little too flimsy. Also if anyone wants to ditch the lanyard loop check out the twisty tailcaps from Lumens Factory [emoji106]


Is that the old school semi gloss black model or the flat black model? Thanks.


----------



## mk2rocco

Tachead said:


> Is that the old school semi gloss black model or the flat black model? Thanks.


Not sure, didn't know lumens factory made different models.


----------



## Tachead

mk2rocco said:


> Not sure, didn't know lumens factory made different models.


Yeah, they make 4 different ones. 2 clicky and two twisty(both available in matte or semi gloss black).


----------



## Tachead

Has anyone done a runtime/output graph on the Tactician with primaries and/or a 16650?


----------



## Jim Bonney

It was between this and the EDCL1-T and at the last minute I went with the Tactician. Seems the closest to legitimate E2e dimensions.


----------



## jkevind11

Are they shipping again ?


----------



## Sean

jkevind11 said:


> Are they shipping again ?



I hope so. I’m still waiting for mine.


----------



## akz133

Surefire is out of them and will not have any more until mid February


----------



## Flashlight Dave

akz133 said:


> Surefire is out of them and will not have any more until mid February



That is what they said to me on January 2nd. They told me the middle of January. Now its the middle of February. I can understand being caught off guard with a couple popular lights but I would have hoped that Surefire would have got their act together by now.


----------



## Tachead

Flashlight Dave said:


> That is what they said to me on January 2nd. They told me the middle of January. Now its the middle of February. I can understand being caught off guard with a couple popular lights but I would have hoped that Surefire would have got their act together by now.



Lights can only be manufactured so fast and with several of the new models(Tactician, EDCL1-T, and EDCL2-T) being so popular, I can see why they are behind. They sold thousands of the Tacticians alone. I believe just Tactical Response alone sold a couple of thousand pre-orders. The last thing we want is Surefire rushing and having quality issues so, I suggest we all just remain patient.


----------



## bykfixer

Good post tachead.

Folks may have forgotten that SureFire downsized their flashlight operation a couple of years ago. Then releasing what? 11 new lights late in 017... yup they got caught off guard I suppose. 

I got one of the first shipments of EDCL2-T's and it was serial numbered 58xxx...


----------



## Dan FO

Venom505 said:


> Hello everybody. Been reading this thread since it got started way back when. I preordered 2 of these lights when then link was up. I was using a tan eb2 backup. I personally like the "whiter tint" of this light more. However i do find myself missing the longer throw of the eb2. Thinking of purchasing a edcl2t for comparison. Or maybe trading that extra Tactician towards it.



The tint on the one I saw looked greenish.


----------



## desert.snake

Cool, it looks like L4 with the head of KL4, but more power.
Somebody could put next to the two beams Tactician and L4?


----------



## dano

I wouldn’t be surprised, at all, if SF farms out the machining to Streamlight, like they did several years ago, to catch up with demand...


----------



## Tachead

dano said:


> I wouldn’t be surprised, at all, if SF farms out the machining to Streamlight, like they did several years ago, to catch up with demand...


I believe Streamlight has most, if not all, of their stuff made offshore(likely China) these days. Some models say "made in China" and others say "assembled in the USA" so I doubt they manufacture anything themselves anymore.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

Tachead said:


> Lights can only be manufactured so fast and with several of the new models(Tactician, EDCL1-T, and EDCL2-T) being so popular, I can see why they are behind. They sold thousands of the Tacticians alone. I believe just Tactical Response alone sold a couple of thousand pre-orders. The last thing we want is Surefire rushing and having quality issues so, I suggest we all just remain patient.



Still this is uncommon for Surefire and it will hurt their business. As I said I gave them credit at first when they were caught off guard by the popularity of their new lights but for whatever reason they have not been able to get these lights out faster. I can wait. Thats not a problem but the delays does reflect on the company.


----------



## Tachead

Flashlight Dave said:


> Still this is uncommon for Surefire and it will hurt their business. As I said I gave them credit at first when they were caught off guard by the popularity of their new lights but for whatever reason they have not been able to get these lights out faster. I can wait. Thats not a problem but the delays does reflect on the company.



Honestly I doubt it will hurt their business much. People are lining up for these lights and almost everyone who has gotten one loves them. And remember, they are not the same company they used to be. They lost their government contracts and did a lot of downsizing. 

They probably should have told people they were in for more of a wait but, things happen. With the Tactician they had a major issue with the clips and had to scrap the whole lot and reorder. That all adds delays and so does the demand and the shear amount of preorders alone.

The only thing you could have done to get one faster is order it sooner as many have already been shipped. Other then that, your two options are wait or cancel your order. Yep, waiting sucks but, what can you do.


----------



## Jim Bonney

What’s with the fuss about waiting anyway? It’s not like an object is going to change your life. Don’t forget that good things come to those who wait.


----------



## Chadder

I'm patiently waiting! In the meantime this thread needs a few for pictures! If I can't use one I might as well look at one!


----------



## desert.snake

Maybe a little off topic. If they lost government contracts, then who took their place?


----------



## Dead Reckoning

I’m assuming that SF did not loose all Military/LE/PSE contracts. Just a large portion after major scale down in military operations worldwide. Still, smaller purchasing orders from individual units I’m sure still come in. But those larger contracts for tens of millions seems to have dried up. So I do not believe that there were other Mil spec flashlight companies that somehow “took” SF contracts. But I would assume it’s more piecemeal now. That is unless someone has some better info.



desert.snake said:


> Maybe a little off topic. If they lost government contracts, then who took their place?


----------



## Nimitz68

desert.snake said:


> Maybe a little off topic. If they lost government contracts, then who took their place?



We did!!! At least it feels that way at times.


----------



## bykfixer

Dead Reckoning said:


> I’m assuming that SF did not loose all Military/LE/PSE contracts. Just a large portion after major scale down in military operations worldwide. Still, smaller purchasing orders from individual units I’m sure still come in. But those larger contracts for tens of millions seems to have dried up. So I do not believe that there were other Mil spec flashlight companies that somehow “took” SF contracts. But I would assume it’s more piecemeal now.



Correct-uh-mundo.

They used to sell to government agencies across the globe. Europe, the Middle East etc. 

Night vision gear is replacing flashlights. Don't need a flashlight when you can see in the dark.


----------



## hippo261

I bought one yesterday,and I may run a simple '16650test' when I got it.


----------



## desert.snake

hippo261 said:


> I bought one yesterday,and I may run a simple '16650test' when I got it.


Please


----------



## bdr

Hi.
Does anyone know which LED is installed?


----------



## Tachead

desert.snake said:


> Please



There is a good one earlier in the thread. Post #398:thumbsup:.


----------



## Tachead

bdr said:


> Hi.
> Does anyone know which LED is installed?


Cree XM-L2.


----------



## bdr

*Tachead*.
Thanks a lot.


----------



## Bronc6901

hippo261 said:


> I bought one yesterday,and I may run a simple '16650test' when I got it.



Did you ever get to run that test?


----------



## Tachead

bdr said:


> *Tachead*.
> Thanks a lot.


No problem. If you want to see pictures of a partial disassembly, there is some earlier in the thread. Post #446.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

bdr said:


> Hi.
> Does anyone know which LED is installed?


I would like to know that too.


----------



## Tachead

Flashlight Dave said:


> I would like to know that too.


See post #481.


----------



## bdr

What about Color Temperature and CRI, do you have any information?


----------



## Tachead

bdr said:


> What about Color Temperature and CRI, do you have any information?


I don't have one but, Mk2rocco estimated it is around 5500K. I would guess the CRI is about 65-70 as that is what is standard for a 5500K XM-L2.


----------



## Aduraku

hippo261 said:


> I bought one yesterday,and I may run a simple '16650test' when I got it.



Did you ever get a chance to test this? I'm on the fence with these.


----------



## Tachead

Aduraku said:


> Did you ever get a chance to test this? I'm on the fence with these.


What information are you looking for? A number of other people have been using 16650's in these and have reported results.


----------



## bdr

Tachead said:


> I don't have one but, Mk2rocco estimated it is around 5500K. I would guess the CRI is about 65-70 as that is what is standard for a 5500K XM-L2.


5500k, not bad.


----------



## Sean

How many batteries does this come with? All the pictures I have seen when this first came out showed 2 batteries with the lanyard. There were also 2 batteries in the light for a total of 4. Now I see pictures of these people are selling new in the package but only the lanyard is visible. So are these now shipping with only 2 batteries?


----------



## Nimitz68

I haven't seen a current package but I remember them coming with two installed and two spares. I wonder if that has changed.


----------



## Sean

Well, I’ll find out when Surefire begins shipping them again.


----------



## bdr

Sean said:


> How many batteries does this come with? All the pictures I have seen when this first came out showed 2 batteries with the lanyard. There were also 2 batteries in the light for a total of 4. Now I see pictures of these people are selling new in the package but only the lanyard is visible. So are these now shipping with only 2 batteries?



I got mine today. This is amazing, because yesterday I received a letter from surefire that they are not in stock. ))))
There are only two batteries installed in the flashlight. No extra batteries!!!


----------



## Sean

bdr said:


> I got mine today. This is amazing, because yesterday I received a letter from surefire that they are not in stock. ))))



So they didn’t email you with a shipping notice? It just showed up? 




bdr said:


> There are only two batteries installed in the flashlight. No extra batteries!!!



[emoji24]


----------



## bdr

Sean said:


> So they didn’t email you with a shipping notice? It just showed up?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji24]



I live two hours away from them. I will receive the parcel faster than notice.  ))))))


----------



## Killer Kane

I have not received an email on any of my shipments. 

In fact if you look at my account it shows that my last three orders are processing. One of which I received today. I have received two of three. 

And to top it off they shorted me the batteries for the damn thing. I thought it was supposed to come with a set in it and an extra set.


----------



## Killer Kane

Here is a size comparison pic for those who may wonder how the "back ordered" lights from Surefire stack up next to each other.
Defender Ultra, EDCL2-T, EDCL1-T, Tactician, and the one that started it all, the E2 Executive.
The EDCL2-T came in last week and the Tactician today.


----------



## bdr

Choosing a flashlights for tasks, we are looking at their technical characteristics. On surefire website for tactician are specified 1.5 h. for 800lum. and 94h. for 5lum. of runtimes, but on the packaging 1h. and 70h. ????? Also indicated is a distance of 230m. on the packaging. I'm not sure, because it's a flooder.


----------



## akz133

So does anyone know when surefire or TR will be shipping again?


----------



## Nimitz68

I have no clue. Currently waiting on two of these through my local dealer. I have received no word.


----------



## vadimax

Killer Kane said:


> I have not received an email on any of my shipments.
> 
> In fact if you look at my account it shows that my last three orders are processing. One of which I received today. I have received two of three.
> 
> And to top it off they shorted me the batteries for the damn thing. I thought it was supposed to come with a set in it and an extra set.



Well, you are not alone


----------



## bykfixer

Let me get this straight...

So because some Tacticians went out with a spare set of batteries.... SureFire is now ripping off folks with only one set of batteries? 

My gosh, that's really awful. I suppose Gene Malkoff rips off his customers by only supplying one set... and Streamlight and Elzetta and.... holy cow... there are some greedy company's sending lights across the ocean (gasp) without any batteries.... 

:whoopin: Shame, shame, shame on those greedy corparations.


----------



## bdr

akz133 said:


> So does anyone know when surefire or TR will be shipping again?



From the order day until I received the parcel, I waited 5 days. Ordered from surefire.com


----------



## Tachead

bykfixer said:


> Let me get this straight...
> 
> So because some Tacticians went out with a spare set of batteries.... SureFire is now ripping off folks with only one set of batteries?
> 
> My gosh, that's really awful. I suppose Gene Malkoff rips off his customers by only supplying one set... and Streamlight and Elzetta and.... holy cow... there are some greedy company's sending lights across the ocean (gasp) without any batteries....
> 
> :whoopin: Shame, shame, shame on those greedy corparations.


Initial lights came with and thus were advertised as having two sets of batteries, it is understandable why people are upset imo. Why should one customer get more then another when they both paid the same price? When you buy something and don't get what you were supposed to get with it that is not really right and borders on false advertising imo. Plus, it is just bad business practice to not maintain consistency with respect to the accessories included with an item and it causes issues/bad blood as you can see.


----------



## bykfixer

So with that line of thinking when the guy in in line front of me gets the last candy bar with a 10¢ coupon attached or the last one that was 10% bigger that justifies me going on the internet to say I was ripped off? 

I don't have a Tactician, nor do I want one. Nothing to do with the battery drama. It just won't for me.

I just don't get all the hub-bub over $3 in batteries for a light that costs $149...


----------



## Sean

Well my Tactician showed up today. What a nice surprise! No shipment notification. 

Tests show:

Low with Surefire primaries: 10 lumens
Low with K2 lithium phosphate: 10 lumens
Low with 16650: 9.5 lumens

High with 16650 is a little lower than with 2xCR123s 

Probably the greatest surprise was the tint. It’s great! White, cool white with a hint of violet in the corona. I can’t really see the violet but my wife can. No green, yellow, etc. 

And for those keeping score, mine came with 2 batteries.


----------



## Tachead

bykfixer said:


> So with that line of thinking when the guy in in line front of me gets the last candy bar with a 10¢ coupon attached or the last one that was 10% bigger that justifies me going on the internet to say I was ripped off?
> 
> I don't have a Tactician, nor do I want one. Nothing to do with the battery drama. It just won't for me.
> 
> I just don't get all the hub-bub over $3 in batteries for a light that costs $149...



Well, that isn't really the same thing. This seems more like a bait and switch tactic to me. They basically gave the first bunch of users 2 sets of batteries so the word got around and then just took the second set away without warning. If they were just going to give one set of cells then that is what they should have done from the start imo. 

You are right though it's not that big of a deal monetarily but, it is still kind of shady and a bit of a stupid decision on Surefire’s part imo. It's more about the principle.


----------



## archimedes

Was it advertised as including batteries and, if so, how many were specifically promised ?

Was there any disclaimer or restrictions on international sales or shipping ?


----------



## akz133

What day did you order?


----------



## bykfixer

archimedes said:


> Was it advertised as including batteries and, if so, how many were specifically promised ?
> 
> Was there any disclaimer or restrictions on international sales or shipping ?



Crickets chirping


----------



## bdr

akz133 said:


> What day did you order?



february 3, 2018


----------



## PinarelloOnly

No affiliation but BH Photo has them in stock tonight.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto

PinarelloOnly said:


> No affiliation but BH Photo has them in stock tonight.



Just got this when I checked:



> More on the Way Expected availability: 7-14 business days​



​


----------



## Sean

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Just got this when I checked:
> 
> 
> ​



They were suppose to email me when the EDCL2-T was back in stock but they did not. Instead, I was checking randomly and found it was showing as in stock so I ordered. Then I went back and it was showing out of stock, so I got the last one (or only one). I’m guessing the same is true here with the Tactician. It probably was in stock for a very short time and sold out.


----------



## Tachead

archimedes said:


> Was it advertised as including batteries and, if so, how many were specifically promised ?
> 
> Was there any disclaimer or restrictions on international sales or shipping ?


Surefire doesn't advertise what is included with their lights.

Not that I know of but, I know many Surefire dealers won't ship internationally so international customers have to wait for local dealers get stock or use a workaround(mail forwarding, having a friend ship them, eBay, etc.) if they want it fast.


----------



## Sean

Maybe the extra batteries went out to the 900 Tactical Response pre-orders? 

Either way it’s not a big deal to me, it just seems odd that they made the clamshell packaging to hold the extra batteries and then stop doing it. Unless it was a special deal for those who pre-ordered the light.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto

I can see that the Tactician comes with a lanyard like many SureFire lights of years past. The new lanyard, also on the GZ2, is a lot shorter than the old ones like the Z34, Z50 and Z60.

If you want the longer lanyard, you can still get it on the SC-1 spare battery carrier.


----------



## pomah

so, 520 replys and no runtime graph?

I would love to see some runtime on CR123 and 16650


----------



## Bronc6901

pomah said:


> so, 520 replys and no runtime graph?
> 
> I would love to see some runtime on CR123 and 16650



I’ll second that.


----------



## Tachead

Bronc6901 said:


> I’ll second that.



I third this lol.


----------



## dtmbinb

I'm curious about runtimes on primaries myself.


----------



## Chadder

My new tactician came in today. I dropped it on the concrete while taking off the lanyard ring. It already has Love marks on it within 5 minutes of being out of the box. That’s a first for me!!


----------



## Sean

*Surefire E2T-MV Tactician runtime tests: *

*16650 2500mAh runtime test results:*
Note that the Tactician does not run at full brightness from a 16650. My measurements show that the Tactician brightness drops down within the first minute to about the brightness of the EDCL1-T at full output (500 lumens) and stays at that level for 65 minutes as long as you are holding the light bezel in your hand (hand cooling) otherwise the brightness sags. This is followed by slowly declining output. At 80 minutes the output has dropped to about 75 lumens and keeps declining. At 90 minutes the output has reached 50 lumens. At that point I ended the test.





*LFP K2 Energy runtime test:*
Runs at full brightness for about 15 minutes (and gets very warm) and then drops off in brightness pretty quickly after that. At the 18 minute mark it was already down to 60 lumens. At that point I ended the test.





*CR123A Runtime test:*
I used Duracell Ultra CR123A cells for the test:


----------



## firsttothescene

Chadder said:


> My new tactician came in today. I dropped it on the concrete while taking off the lanyard ring. It already has Love marks on it within 5 minutes of being out of the box. That’s a first for me!!


Ouch!!


----------



## Flashlight Dave

pomah said:


> so, 520 replys and no runtime graph?
> 
> I would love to see some runtime on CR123 and 16650



I agree.I would also like to see a runtime graph but it seems that people don't do runtime graphs much anymore like they use too such as chevrofreak and others did years ago in the past. At least not as much. Is selfbuilt still around to do one?


----------



## Tachead

Flashlight Dave said:


> I agree.I would also like to see a runtime graph but it seems that people don't do runtime graphs much anymore like they use too such as chevrofreak and others did years ago in the past. At least not as much. Is selfbuilt still around to do one?


I think it's just Surefires. There are plenty of runtime graphs for other brands. Surefire is more of a working man's brand(so to speak) and I just don't think many of their customers are the graph making type.


----------



## IMightBeWrong

Sean said:


> Maybe the extra batteries went out to the 900 Tactical Response pre-orders? Either way it’s not a big deal to me, it just seems odd that they made the clamshell packaging to hold the extra batteries and then stop doing it. Unless it was a special deal for those who pre-ordered the light.


This was my assumption. The first preorders had to deal with a setback for a few months while SF got the pocket clips right. Those of us not waiting as long (mine is shipping after only a 10 day wait since ordering) likely won’t see the extra batteries due to not having such a long setback.


----------



## Bronc6901

Sean said:


> *Surefire E2T-MV Tactician runtime tests: *
> 
> *16650 2500mAh runtime test results:*
> Note that the Tactician does not run at full brightness from a 16650. My measurements show that the Tactician brightness drops down within the first minute to about the brightness of the EDCL1-T at full output (500 lumens) and stays at that level for 65 minutes as long as you are holding the light bezel in your hand (hand cooling) otherwise the brightness sags. This is followed by slowly declining output. At 80 minutes the output has dropped to about 75 lumens and keeps declining. At 90 minutes the output has reached 50 lumens. At that point I ended the test.
> 
> *LFP K2 Energy:*
> Runs at full brightness for 15 minutes (and gets very warm) and then drops off in brightness pretty quickly after that. At the 18 minute mark it was already down to 60 lumens. At that point I ended the test.



Thank you for the testing!


----------



## bdr

Vox Clamatis in Deserto
check this one
https://17photo.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=price&dir=desc&q=tactician


----------



## Flashlight Dave

Has anyone tried 17670s? I tried one and it fit perfectly and another fit but was tight. I tried protected AW brand. Anyone else have any luck?


----------



## akz133

Chadder said:


> My new tactician came in today. I dropped it on the concrete while taking off the lanyard ring. It already has Love marks on it within 5 minutes of being out of the box. That’s a first for me!!


When did you order and from where?


----------



## Chadder

I ordered mine on January 2nd directly from surefire.


----------



## Chadder

https://imgur.com/a/1CaY6
Here is a picture with a few other e series in the family.


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto

bdr said:


> Vox Clamatis in Deserto
> check this one
> https://17photo.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=price&dir=desc&q=tactician



Thanks. :thumbsup:

But I'm trying so hard to resist... :huh:

I already have the E1B-MV with a similar beam, it's a keeper.

I really don't need another MV light. Or do I?


----------



## Tachead

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Thanks. [emoji106]
> 
> But I'm trying so hard to resist... :huh:
> 
> I already have the E1B-MV with a similar beam, it's a keeper.
> 
> I really don't need another MV light. Or do I?


It would give you option to swap heads and/or tailcaps for a 2 cell Backup or a micro Tactician😁.


----------



## Flashlight Dave

Tachead said:


> It would give you option to swap heads and/or tailcaps for a 2 cell Backup or a micro Tactician😁.



Yes and it works. I tried it with a 16340.


----------



## Sean

I added a CR123A test and I added graphs to my previous tests:

*16650 2500mAh runtime test:*





*LFP K2 Energy runtime test:*





*CR123A runtime test:*
I used Duracell Ultra CR123A cells for the test:


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto

Sean said:


> I added a CR123A test and I added graphs to my previous tests:
> 
> *CR123A runtime test:*
> I used Duracell Ultra CR123A cells for the test:



Thanks as always Sean. :thumbsup:

It looks like, as with the E1B-MV, that the CR123A's can't keep up with the current demand and stay in regulation for very long. Also, the LFP K2 RCR's drop off fast in less than 20 minutes as well.

However, that 16650 curve looks great. Is the brightness scale the same for each battery type or is it arbitrarily set to start out around 160? For the apparent slight loss in brightness indicated by these graphs, the 16650 looks like a very good option for this light.


----------



## tokaji

Around 15 minutes on full brightness with CR123a. This is a real tactical light, 15 minutes is long enough to take one action, then replace batteries.


----------



## Sean

Vox Clamatis in Deserto said:


> Thanks as always Sean. :thumbsup:
> However, that 16650 curve looks great. Is the brightness scale the same for each battery type or is it arbitrarily set to start out around 160? For the apparent slight loss in brightness indicated by these graphs, the 16650 looks like a very good option for this light.



Well, the brightness scale is somewhat accurate in that the higher the reading the brighter the output but the scaling is off. In other words, the Tactician with 16650 output is near 500-550 lumens (thats why the runtime is so flat). But the Tactician with CR123A or LFP runs at 800 lumens, which is why runtime is so much shorter.


----------



## IMightBeWrong

My Tactician is waiting patiently in my mailbox for when I’m off work... If only time would move a bit faster...


----------



## bykfixer

^^ Nice!!

C'mon 5 o'clock, huh?


----------



## ChibiM

Sean said:


> *Surefire E2T-MV Tactician runtime tests: *
> 
> *16650 2500mAh runtime test results:*
> Note that the Tactician does not run at full brightness from a 16650. My measurements show that the Tactician brightness drops down within the first minute to about the brightness of the EDCL1-T at full output (500 lumens) and stays at that level for 65 minutes as long as you are holding the light bezel in your hand (hand cooling) otherwise the brightness sags. This is followed by slowly declining output. At 80 minutes the output has dropped to about 75 lumens and keeps declining. At 90 minutes the output has reached 50 lumens. At that point I ended the test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *LFP K2 Energy runtime test:*
> Runs at full brightness for about 15 minutes (and gets very warm) and then drops off in brightness pretty quickly after that. At the 18 minute mark it was already down to 60 lumens. At that point I ended the test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CR123A Runtime test:*
> I used Duracell Ultra CR123A cells for the test:



What is the number on the Y axis? Lux from ceiling bounce?


----------



## Sean

ChibiM said:


> What is the number on the Y axis? Lux from ceiling bounce?



I use a digital multimeter connected to a solar cell with a certain piece of paper over it to cut the light down a specific amount. I place the light directly onto the solar cell so all light is collected. So the numbers from the Y axis are the voltage readings (160=1.6 volts) from the DMM.


----------



## IMightBeWrong

bykfixer said:


> ^^ Nice!!
> 
> C'mon 5 o'clock, huh?



I happen to work 7a-7p as a medical shift so it really dragged!

Got the light in hand. Much smaller emitter than I’m used to after carrying an EB1 for a few years. Very happy with the size of this light and I like the MV more than I expected to! I expected almost too much spill but it actually still throws pretty well. I’d say the MV strikes a very nice balance between throw and flood.


----------



## akz133

IMightBeWrong said:


> I happen to work 7a-7p as a medical shift so it really dragged!Got the light in hand. Much smaller emitter than I’m used to after carrying an EB1 for a few years. Very happy with the size of this light and I like the MV more than I expected to! I expected almost too much spill but it actually still throws pretty well. I’d say the MV strikes a very nice balance between throw and flood.


When did you order it and from where?


----------



## IMightBeWrong

akz133 said:


> When did you order it and from where?



B&H on 1/30.


----------



## ChibiM

Sean said:


> I use a digital multimeter connected to a solar cell with a certain piece of paper over it to cut the light down a specific amount. I place the light directly onto the solar cell so all light is collected. So the numbers from the Y axis are the voltage readings (160=1.6 volts) from the DMM.



Interesting! Thanks.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

Sean said:


> *Surefire E2T-MV Tactician runtime tests: *
> 
> *16650 2500mAh runtime test results:*
> Note that the Tactician does not run at full brightness from a 16650. My measurements show that the Tactician brightness drops down within the first minute to about the brightness of the EDCL1-T at full output (500 lumens) and stays at that level for 65 minutes as long as you are holding the light bezel in your hand (hand cooling) otherwise the brightness sags. This is followed by slowly declining output. At 80 minutes the output has dropped to about 75 lumens and keeps declining. At 90 minutes the output has reached 50 lumens. At that point I ended the test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *LFP K2 Energy runtime test:*
> Runs at full brightness for about 15 minutes (and gets very warm) and then drops off in brightness pretty quickly after that. At the 18 minute mark it was already down to 60 lumens. At that point I ended the test.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *CR123A Runtime test:*
> I used Duracell Ultra CR123A cells for the test:



What specific 16650 are you using and what charger are you charging it up with?

Try the Sanyo 4.35v 2500mAh 16650, if you're not using that already.

You will need a charger that can charge up 3.80v-3.85v (4.35v) cells, however.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Sanyo UR16650ZTA 2500mAh (Magenta) UK.html

Chris


----------



## Sean

ChrisGarrett said:


> What specific 16650 are you using and what charger are you charging it up with?
> 
> Chris



I’m using KeepPower 16650 2500mAh Sanyo protected battery and I’m charging it with a Nitecore i4. I am aware that you can charge Sanyo 16650s to 4.35v with a special charger but I don’t feel like spending the money on another battery and charger at this time when what I have works just fine. It’s not like I’m maxing my light out every day and needing a little more capacity. 80 minutes+ is pretty good.


----------



## bykfixer

IMightBeWrong said:


> I happen to work 7a-7p as a medical shift so it really dragged!
> 
> Got the light in hand. Much smaller emitter than I’m used to after carrying an EB1 for a few years. Very happy with the size of this light and I like the MV more than I expected to! I expected almost too much spill but it actually still throws pretty well. I’d say the MV strikes a very nice balance between throw and flood.



From reading folks impressions it sounds like it is suited to be an all around player instead of a niche like the EB1(or2) was with its pencil beam. Choice of starting on high or low with a simple head twist is not new, but a good idea is still a good idea regardless of its origin.


----------



## IMightBeWrong

bykfixer said:


> From reading folks impressions it sounds like it is suited to be an all around player instead of a niche like the EB1(or2) was with its pencil beam. Choice of starting on high or low with a simple head twist is not new, but a good idea is still a good idea regardless of its origin.



Having had and gifted away an EDCL1 I can say that the EB1 replacement has a much larger hotspot that is a lot more versatile. You may like that light. I also ordered an EDCL2 that is still on backorder from B&H as I wanted the higher output. You’re definitely right, though. The Tactician is a great all around light with a clean beam. So far my only concern is that I’ll have to adjust how I carry it. I usually keep a light in my front left pocket with my keys but that will have the lanyard getting tangled in my keychain for sure. I generally hate back pocket carry because I often notice it when sitting in some types of chair. Alternately I could just remove the lanyard but I want to try it out. Or I could move my phone to my left pocket and my keys to the right but then I’m attacking an expensive knife with key scratches. The EDCL2 May become my daily carry light simply due to the bezel down carry but time will tell.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

Sean said:


> I’m using KeepPower 16650 2500mAh Sanyo protected battery and I’m charging it with a Nitecore i4. I am aware that you can charge Sanyo 16650s to 4.35v with a special charger but I don’t feel like spending the money on another battery and charger at this time when what I have works just fine. It’s not like I’m maxing my light out every day and needing a little more capacity. 80 minutes+ is pretty good.



Cool. I was just curious because a lot of SF light guys aren't 'li-ion' astute. With the protected KP, you still wouldn't be able to charge it up to 4.35v due to the protection circuit's over-voltage step.

A Liitokala Lii 100 4.35v multi chem charger is like $4.50 shipped from GearBest, so we're not talking a lot of money to get into the game, to be frank.

I've got two protected Redilast 17670s, which are just the Gen. 1 Sanyo 2200mAh 4.30v cells, but I don't care either, since my 6P sits in a drawer.

Chris


----------



## Sean

ChrisGarrett said:


> A Liitokala Lii 100 4.35v multi chem charger is like $4.50 shipped from GearBest, so we're not talking a lot of money to get into the game, to be frank.
> 
> Chris



Ok thanks. I wasn’t aware of that charger. [emoji4]


----------



## IMightBeWrong

I’m really enjoying this light. So much, in fact, that I cancelled my EDCL2-T order after testing it out outdoors. It may not be a thrower but it reaches a good 50+ yards away which is more than enough for my uses. I thought I might have an issue with the one way clip but it turned out to be a non-issue. Loving this light.


----------



## APS

I have been carrying mine for ~ a week now and am really happy I made the purchase. For the last couple of years I have been carrying various tube lights bezel down so I was a little worried I wouldn't like the Tactician's bezel up orientation. But now I realize it's more consistent and easier to grab when it's bezel up which fits the purpose of this light. Kinda wish the low was a little brighter but no biggie I also carry a small utility light.


----------



## UVvis

ChrisGarrett said:


> Cool. I was just curious because a lot of SF light guys aren't 'li-ion' astute.



Lol, why go to the trouble (and mild increased risk) when work provides free batteries?


----------



## ChrisGarrett

UVvis said:


> Lol, why go to the trouble (and mild increased risk) when work provides free batteries?



I guess because not everybody's a cop and not every cop department sports for batteries, for their officers?

As far as an increased risk, you're (presumably) a cop and risk is part of the job description, even if a li-ion cell is actually pretty low on the risk assessment scale.

Chris


----------



## UVvis

To be fair, think of it this way,

Surefire has long had a target market geared around combative uses of light. So, military, LEO and citizens are prime customers. Good safe lithium primaries are considerably cheaper when you are buying them in mass quantity (think tens of thousands) under gov't contracts. So, it is easy to just replace cells when light starts to dim, problem solved. This satisfies much of their target market.

Surefire has traditionally lagged behind Streamlight in terms of ease of use rechargeable flashlights. What you generally want is something ready to go, on a charger, in the car or somewhere, that goes back on the charger when you get back in the car. On your belt or in your pocket you may have your backup light, which isn't going to see as much use. And for both LEO and Mil applications, you want to pay attention to concepts of light discipline. Also consider weapon lights that maybe see use times in the tens of minutes at a go, as it can be kinda rude to point your M4 at everything you are trying to see. Personally I've carried an E2e with a KX2C head, or an LX2 everyday for ten-ish years (perfect form factor for me). I usually use lithium primaries in these lights, as it is easy. As the cells fade, I use them single use in headlamps when I'm fishing or whatever.

Plus, think about how many people actually have a quality flashlight. Then think about how many of those are actually flashlight geeks (guilty myself). Just because someone carries a flashlight, gun, or drives a car daily for work means they are a flashlight, gun or car person. 

Anyhow, I'm just pointing out why many people just don't find it worth the hassle of dealing with or caring about li-ion cells. We agree on the concept, and it is probably stuff you knew anyway. It's just hard for many to justify the added effort and cost of li-ion cell use.


----------



## ChrisGarrett

UVvis said:


> To be fair, think of it this way,
> 
> Surefire has long had a target market geared around combative uses of light. So, military, LEO and citizens are prime customers. Good safe lithium primaries are considerably cheaper when you are buying them in mass quantity (think tens of thousands) under gov't contracts. So, it is easy to just replace cells when light starts to dim, problem solved. This satisfies much of their target market.
> 
> Surefire has traditionally lagged behind Streamlight in terms of ease of use rechargeable flashlights. What you generally want is something ready to go, on a charger, in the car or somewhere, that goes back on the charger when you get back in the car. On your belt or in your pocket you may have your backup light, which isn't going to see as much use. And for both LEO and Mil applications, you want to pay attention to concepts of light discipline. Also consider weapon lights that maybe see use times in the tens of minutes at a go, as it can be kinda rude to point your M4 at everything you are trying to see. Personally I've carried an E2e with a KX2C head, or an LX2 everyday for ten-ish years (perfect form factor for me). I usually use lithium primaries in these lights, as it is easy. As the cells fade, I use them single use in headlamps when I'm fishing or whatever.
> 
> Plus, think about how many people actually have a quality flashlight. Then think about how many of those are actually flashlight geeks (guilty myself). Just because someone carries a flashlight, gun, or drives a car daily for work means they are a flashlight, gun or car person.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm just pointing out why many people just don't find it worth the hassle of dealing with or caring about li-ion cells. We agree on the concept, and it is probably stuff you knew anyway. It's just hard for many to justify the added effort and cost of li-ion cell use.



Hey, I'm not trying to argue about anything and as I said above, from what I've learned here and over on the gun boards that I frequent, is that SF guys are generally 'li-ion' ignorant. For the exact reasons that you've spelled out here: SF didn't really support the use of li-ion rechargeables in the first place, because SF marketed their own, relatively safe brand of batteries (Panasonic USA), giving them a monetary incentive to not support rechargeables. Again, not out of pure altruism.

Also, they could sell those CR123As to any agency entering into a contract with them, for their lights, so the end user didn't have to worry about switching over, since he was being handed boxes and boxes of them out in the field. Simple enough. If the taxpayer is paying, why spend your own cash on this stuff, right?

Now that SF has lost some of its military/police contracts due to war efforts winding down, or police budgets tightening, they're a bit more 'with the times', shall I say?

My reply was to the guy already using 'li-ion' cells in his new X, Y, Z SF light, not whether it's prudent, or advisable, to do so.

You hopped on board about why bothering, when apparently, you have them handed to you on the taxpayer's dime.

If you're paying for CR123As and you're using your light more than a few minutes a day, day in and day out, then you're blowing money by using primaries. Especially today, when we have inexpensive lights that would overly tax a CR123A's capabilities (1.5A).

Chris


----------



## UVvis

Exactly,

Plus as long as Surefire is in the battery selling business, why bother spending more boring out larger holes!


----------



## sebis

Hi guys, question for those that have the Tactician already, is it powerful enough at close range within 7 yards to temporarily blind a potential assailant? I currently carry a Malkoff M61HOT MD2 that is "only" 500 lumens but has a TIR lens. I am looking for something slimmer with the same manual of arms, i.e. rotate the head for low.

TIA

--Sebis


----------



## UVvis

sebis said:


> Hi guys, question for those that have the Tactician already, is it powerful enough at close range within 7 yards to temporarily blind a potential assailant? I currently carry a Malkoff M61HOT MD2 that is "only" 500 lumens but has a TIR lens. I am looking for something slimmer with the same manual of arms, i.e. rotate the head for low.
> 
> TIA
> 
> --Sebis



Temporarily blinding is just overloading your photoreceptors. The time of effect depends on the eye's adjustment level to existing ambient lighting, combined with beam intensity of the light in question. So, technically, yes, and it depends, and the effect only lasts for a very short time.


----------



## sebis

UVvis said:


> Temporarily blinding is just overloading your photoreceptors. The time of effect depends on the eye's adjustment level to existing ambient lighting, combined with beam intensity of the light in question. So, technically, yes, and it depends, and the effect only lasts for a very short time.



I only need a second or two, see the technique here demonstrated by a pro, I am not a prod thou thus I would need more time thus looking for the strongest light available for pocket carry.


----------



## APS

John, the guy using that technique, uses the Tactician now. So it's probably bright enough??


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Still having thoughts of buying this light. Currently, I'm rotating between my UM2 and P1R for night stand duty. I don't have any MaxVision lights yet. So I'm still on the fence about this. Wondering if I could "push" myself to click to buy.

Oi. Decisions...


----------



## Jax214

I recently picked up a tactician off Amazon. I notice the light gets pretty hot fairly quickly. Within 30s-1min of continuous use, lens and bezel is hot to touch and the entire body of the unit is warm. The lens actually left a burn mark on my couch after setting it down continuously on for less than 30secs. 

For those of you that have one, does this seem normal for this light?

Thanks.


----------



## tokaji

The Tactician is not an utility light. It is designed for intermittent use in tactical situations.



Jax214 said:


> I recently picked up a tactician off Amazon. I notice the light gets pretty hot fairly quickly. Within 30s-1min of continuous use, lens and bezel is hot to touch and the entire body of the unit is warm. The lens actually left a burn mark on my couch after setting it down continuously on for less than 30secs.
> 
> For those of you that have one, does this seem normal for this light?
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## Modernflame

Jax214 said:


> I recently picked up a tactician off Amazon. I notice the light gets pretty hot fairly quickly. Within 30s-1min of continuous use, lens and bezel is hot to touch and the entire body of the unit is warm. The lens actually left a burn mark on my couch after setting it down continuously on for less than 30secs.
> 
> For those of you that have one, does this seem normal for this light?
> 
> Thanks.



Most any flashlight of this form factor and output will get very hot if used continuously. I think it should take a little longer than one minute to reach that temperature, though.


----------



## vadimax

Jax214 said:


> I recently picked up a tactician off Amazon. I notice the light gets pretty hot fairly quickly. Within 30s-1min of continuous use, lens and bezel is hot to touch and the entire body of the unit is warm. The lens actually left a burn mark on my couch after setting it down continuously on for less than 30secs.
> 
> For those of you that have one, does this seem normal for this light?
> 
> Thanks.



To be sincere, most of nowadays lights are capable to set your house on fire if you use them improperly. This ain’t exclusive Tactician ability. Have you noticed “CAUTION: HOT SURFACE” warning on the light’s head? How do you think why is it there?


----------



## Sean

I noticed mine got really warm using primaries too during my run time test. But I was always able to hold it. It was much cooler using a 16650.


----------



## bykfixer

Sean said:


> I noticed mine got really warm using primaries too during my run time test. But I was always able to hold it. It was much cooler using a 16650.



Nobody is really speaking of this in the 2-T thread. I kinda figured the Tactician would get noticeably warm due to proper radiation built in by SureFire engineers but not hot.

Now when I first read the initial draw of the 2-T was 3.5 amps and safety limits of primaries stops at about 3, I thought "my goodness, that thing is a pipe bomb". So up until last night I had only used momentary high and only 25-45 seconds at a time. I understand these aren't typically going to be a steady source of light for S&R use. At one point I twisted my 2-T switch to constant high and set it aside while getting set up for a max throw photo. After a couple of minutes the entire light was warm. Not burn your skin hot but warm enough to cause me to hurry up and take the photo. 

I don't mind the light getting hot as that is a good thing. But 5 minutes later I removed the batteries and they were much hotter than I was comfortable with. They didn't burn me, but it _was_ an uneasy feeling to hold a pair of lithium primaries warm enough to melt butter.


----------



## bdr

I switched it on for 3 hours for the test(3 hours on cr123 and 3 hours on 16650), it was very hot I could not even touch. I was worried, but as you can see I'm all right and I'm writing now.  ))))


----------



## bykfixer

You got 3 hours runtime?

Woohoo!!


----------



## Chadder

bdr said:


> I switched it on for 3 hours for the test(3 hours on cr123 and 3 hours on 16650), it was very hot I could not even touch. I was worried, but as you can see I'm all right and I'm writing now.  ))))



What batteries where you using? I need me some of those! I’m guessing there was initial heat but as the brightness dropped so did the heat. Also holding the light helps dissipate the heat vs leaving the light setting untouched.


----------



## bdr

Here you can see the charts of my test.
http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?p=1105467#post1105467

on the phone screen surefire cr123
first one orbtronic 16650, 2500mah


----------



## vadimax

bdr said:


> Here you can see the charts of my test.
> http://forum.fonarevka.ru/showthread.php?p=1105467#post1105467
> 
> on the phone screen surefire cr123
> first one orbtronic 16650, 2500mah



He writes there that both battery sets became “smelly” as a result. So I am not sure you would like to do the same to your light


----------



## Chadder

I could not read the writing but I appreciated the graph. One of the things I have always liked in surefire was the long period of tapering light vs the light just shutting off. I have used the dimming light from an L4 during power outages for around the house use. I was hiking along a dark beach once with my E2DL and even though high would no longer work the drop to low was more than enough light to hike home.


----------



## jhc37013

So I've been carrying my Tactician a week or so and I can tell you it is nowhere near as good a light as the Eagletac D25LC2 Tactical with XP-L HI V3 considering everything. First the HI V3 dominates the XM-L or whatever the Tactician has and second the D25 Tactical can change modes by twisting the bezel also but it has 4 modes and you can present the mode before turning the light on, also momentary on with a full click on/off tailcap is best for me. I'm going to stay with the D25LC2 Tactical as my EDC and keep the Tactician on my bag.

I carry a handgun everyday and night I really don't see any advantage in a defensive situation where I need to constantly hold the button down for light is a good thing, I'm already manipulating a firearm and possibly a trigger and moving target while probably looking for cover, no give me a good old on/off switch.

I might could see a benefit to an offensive situation like police or military clearing rooms but I'm still not positive about that either. I do not want to lose my target/attacker during all the craziness because I accidentally let off the switch a little and that is all it takes if you let off even just the smallest amount of pressure the light turns off. Just my opinion


----------



## sebis

jhc37013 said:


> So I've been carrying my Tactician a week or so and I can tell you it is nowhere near as good a light as the Eagletac D25LC2 Tactical with XP-L HI V3 considering everything. First the HI V3 dominates the XM-L or whatever the Tactician has and second the D25 Tactical can change modes by twisting the bezel also but it has 4 modes and you can present the mode before turning the light on, also momentary on with a full click on/off tailcap is best for me. I'm going to stay with the D25LC2 Tactical as my EDC and keep the Tactician on my bag.
> 
> I carry a handgun everyday and night I really don't see any advantage in a defensive situation where I need to constantly hold the button down for light is a good thing, I'm already manipulating a firearm and possibly a trigger and moving target while probably looking for cover, no give me a good old on/off switch.
> 
> I might could see a benefit to an offensive situation like police or military clearing rooms but I'm still not positive about that either. I do not want to lose my target/attacker during all the craziness because I accidentally let off the switch a little and that is all it takes if you let off even just the smallest amount of pressure the light turns off. Just my opinion



Hmm, you need to get some low light training. See the video I posted on the previous page on why you need a momentary switch on a tactical flashlight. Turning on a flashlight at the wrong time or keeping it on too long will get you in a whole heap of trouble. You can thank me later.

--Sebis


----------



## APS

jhc37013 said:


> So I've been carrying my Tactician a week or so and I can tell you it is nowhere near as good a light as the Eagletac D25LC2 Tactical with XP-L HI V3 considering everything. First the HI V3 dominates the XM-L or whatever the Tactician has and second the D25 Tactical can change modes by twisting the bezel also but it has 4 modes and you can present the mode before turning the light on, also momentary on with a full click on/off tailcap is best for me. I'm going to stay with the D25LC2 Tactical as my EDC and keep the Tactician on my bag.
> 
> I carry a handgun everyday and night I really don't see any advantage in a defensive situation where I need to constantly hold the button down for light is a good thing, I'm already manipulating a firearm and possibly a trigger and moving target while probably looking for cover, no give me a good old on/off switch.
> 
> I might could see a benefit to an offensive situation like police or military clearing rooms but I'm still not positive about that either. I do not want to lose my target/attacker during all the craziness because I accidentally let off the switch a little and that is all it takes if you let off even just the smallest amount of pressure the light turns off. Just my opinion



I think the Tactician is a purpose built light that does not excel in EDC utility roles but is great for it's design parameters. I typically carry a utility light along with it.


----------



## Chadder

I kind of have to disagree. I took my tactician along with my E2L outdoorsman out for a walk in the dark last night. I primarily used the tactician on low while out. The light was perfect for this task. I turned it on high a couple of times and the broad beam was perfect and did not blind me. It is actually more useful on low than the E2L because of the broad beam. I can see using this light a ton around camp this summer. I know this is not very tacticool of me, but I may use this as a low light first type of utility light.


----------



## sebis

Chadder said:


> I kind of have to disagree. I took my tactician along with my E2L outdoorsman out for a walk in the dark last night. I primarily used the tactician on low while out. The light was perfect for this task. I turned it on high a couple of times and the broad beam was perfect and did not blind me. It is actually more useful on low than the E2L because of the broad beam. I can see using this light a ton around camp this summer. I know this is not very tacticool of me, *but I may use this as a low light first type of utility light.*



Great if it works for you but not the primary role for this light. I carry HDS Tactical (Rotary) for low light duties since I can dial it exactly to the amount of low light I need. It is also my backup tactical light, you can never have enough flashlights on you .


----------



## Chadder

I should have been honest since it’s CPF’s. I had my 4 sevens PK knight and my titan plus on me also for the walk. Doesn’t everyone take a walk with 4 lights??


----------



## peter yetman

I take three. Four is just absurd, what are you thinking?
P


----------



## jkevind11

peter yetman said:


> I take three. Four is just absurd, what are you thinking?
> P





Lol[emoji4]


----------



## Chadder

3 is none, 4 is one. LOL


----------



## bdr

What do you hope for, taking with you less than five?


----------



## Modernflame

peter yetman said:


> I take three. Four is just absurd, what are you thinking?
> P



Five is right out!


----------



## bykfixer

Chadder said:


> I should have been honest since it’s CPF’s. I had my 4 sevens PK knight and my titan plus on me also for the walk. Doesn’t everyone take a walk with 4 lights??



At least 4....


----------



## Nimitz68

Received my E2T-MV yesterday. So far I'm liking it very much. Very compact with a small diameter head and great feel in hand. Tons of light covering a very broad area. I think Surefire has another winner!


----------



## marinemaster

If it was 15 lumens low or 30 lumens low I would buy it right away. 5 lumens is too low. The everyday level I use is about 50. SF 15 lumens is more like 30 lumens or higher but 5 lumens is way low for my use. Too bad is a nice light.


----------



## teak

marinemaster said:


> If it was 15 lumens low or 30 lumens low I would buy it right away. 5 lumens is too low. The everyday level I use is about 50. SF 15 lumens is more like 30 lumens or higher but 5 lumens is way low for my use. Too bad is a nice light.


All the tactitians ive had experience with has more then 5 lumens. Its closer to 15.


----------



## Sean

marinemaster said:


> If it was 15 lumens low or 30 lumens low I would buy it right away. 5 lumens is too low. The everyday level I use is about 50. SF 15 lumens is more like 30 lumens or higher but 5 lumens is way low for my use. Too bad is a nice light.



My Tactician low is 10 lumens.


----------



## BioMelodic

I just received my Tactician yesterday.... not sure I‘m going tol ike the bezel-up carry, though.

I also have an EB2, I’m thinking about using the EB2 body with the Tactician head and tailcap, so I can basically have the same light but with bezel-down orientation due to the EB2’s 2-way pocket clip.


----------



## Bronc6901

Are you not able to switch the clips?


----------



## BioMelodic

Update:
The tailcap from the Tactician will not fit the E series bodies.... the thread pattern is different and the threads are “longer”

Also, the EB2 and Tactician clips are not interchangeable. The Tactician clip is “wider”, so the slot the clip slides into is different on each body.


However, I removed the Tactician clip completely, and found that a clip from an older model Streamlight 2L fits quite well... allowing tailcap-up carry.


----------



## Viper715

The EB2 is the outlier not the Tactician. The Tactician tailcap fits all original sized E series lights. The EB2 and now the EDCL1T and L2T have the longer tail caps. The Tactician tailcap is exchangeable with all of my E1E, E2E, Aviator 2017 and E1B bodies. 

Also about the clip. My Tactician clip fits in all of my other e series lights and my two way long E clip fits in my Tactician. Not sure why it’s not consistent with other people’s lights.


----------



## BioMelodic

Thanks for the info!

I have the EB1 & 2, and didnt know they were different than other E series lights.

Yeah, on mine, the Tactician clip is wider than the EB2 clip, so the Tac clip is too wide for the EB2 ‘slot’... and the EB2 clip is too narrow to be held in place by the Tac body.


----------



## Harry999

My Tactician arrived today. I really like it. The slim form factor will make it great for pocket carry as well as not having the crenellations of the E2D. 

Already thinking of ordering a second one...


----------



## xdayv

Pls bear if this has been asked and answered before... does the Tactician run on Keeppower 16650 2500mah effectively?


----------



## knucklegary

Try perusing around page 11


----------



## xdayv

knucklegary said:


> Try perusing around page 11



Thanks, must have missed that.


----------



## Iacozzz

Hi, do you know if there are more version of the Tactician? With the same code I mean, E2T-MV.
I ask that because on my user manual, and even on the box, it's indicated 3.200 candela, 1.5 hours at 800 lumens and 94 hours at 5 lumens, like on the official site, while on some photos I saw 10.000 candela, 1h at 800 lumens and 70h at 5 lumens.
Thanks


----------



## Nimitz68

I believe that was a revision/correction by Surefire. The first run of lights had packaging indicating the higher candela and shorter run times. The newer packaging shows the corrected information (lower candela and longer run times) as stickers over the original printed data. All the Tacticians have been identical as far as I know.


----------



## Iacozzz

Thank you for the answer, I think you are right, at the and of my user manual, on the corner bottom right, there is the writing "Revision B 1-2018 71-01-1042 E2T-MV", so maybe is a revision of january 2018.


----------



## Jose Marin

Finally got around to doing some runtime tests. Not very impressive but looks like 16650 is best choice for continuous runtime, 123s are middle ground and 16340 for longest brightest output. I terminated tests early because it's boring recording that low of output, i bet the 16650 could of ran another 1hr at a fairly bright output. Enjoy
I measured from 1 meter 
2x16340 4kcd
2x sf123 4kcd
1x 16650 3.2kcd


----------



## Sean

Thanks for the runtime tests Jose!


----------



## NoodlyDoodly

Hello and thanks to all that have contributed to this thread. All the information regarding different battery types, clips, and tail caps has been extremely helpful. I love the tactician beam pattern and I have been running the head on one of my old lx2 lumamax bodies because I love the gas pedal feature. Does anyone know if there a gas pedal switch that would work on the tactician body? I was thinking maybe one from an edcl1 or edcl2 might work? I tried searching the offerings from Lumens Factory but I only saw clicky models. I read through this thread a few times looking for the answer and I apologize if it was already mentioned and I missed it.


----------



## JohnSmith

I didn’t pay much attention to this light because I’m not a fan of twisty interfaces or bezel-up carry and I’m skeptical of “tactical” fads. But when I finally read though this thread I found it can be used with a standard clicky tailcap, and it reportedly ran well on a 16650, so I decided to give it a shot as a general use light.

It’s a nice light! Compact compared to other 2-cell E-series lights, and only slightly longer than 1-cell E-series lights (just 0.5” longer than the EDCL1-T, for example). Very mild crenellations instead of aggressive teeth, and a very useful floody beam pattern. I also really like being able to dial in the brightness setting through head rotation instead of having to click through modes, something I hadn’t considered in advance but immediately appreciated once I got to play with it.

I gave away an E1B-MV to a family member and considered replacing it, but this E2T purchase negates another E1B-MV... Same beam with twice the lumens at only 1.3x the length, dual-fuel, and runs well on a 2500-ish mAh 16650 cell. I like it.


----------



## kelmo

Jose Marin said:


> Finally got around to doing some runtime tests. Not very impressive but looks like 16650 is best choice for continuous runtime, 123s are middle ground and 16340 for longest brightest output. I terminated tests early because it's boring recording that low of output, i bet the 16650 could of ran another 1hr at a fairly bright output. Enjoy
> I measured from 1 meter
> 2x16340 4kcd
> 2x sf123 4kcd
> 1x 16650 3.2kcd



Cool, looking forward to getting one.


----------



## thaugen

Does the Tactician have a glass or plastic lens? Thanks!


----------



## Sean

thaugen said:


> Does the Tactician have a glass or plastic lens? Thanks!



Glass.


----------



## thaugen

Thank you! Mine arrives on Wednesday and I was hoping it was a glass lens.



Sean said:


> Glass.


----------



## JohnSmith

It’s official, the E2T-MV Tactician is my favorite 2-cell Surefire ever. Ever ever.

Questions:

1. Has anyone tried the head on a 1-cell body with a 16340? How is the brightness compared to the 16650? I love this light with a 16650, and I’m now thinking about single cell configurations (but I don’t have any 16340s to test).

2. Could the Tactican tailcap be drilled out and a clicky (surefire or mcclicky) installed in its housing? I’m running a clicky tailcap now (standard Surefire E-series clicky) and that’s my preference, but I like the flared profile of the E2T factory tailcap. I just might want that housing in a clicky format.


----------



## thaugen

After a few days with the Tactician I am very impressed. I typically don’t like momentary switches and have converted all of my 6P and G2 switches to McClicky switches. The action on the Tactician momentary switch is more responsive and the twisting to on is smooth. I also love the wall of white light from the Maxvision beam and the lanyard. Well done Surefire!


----------



## Jose Marin

JohnSmith said:


> 1. Has anyone tried the head on a 1-cell body with a 16340? How is the brightness compared to the 16650? I love this light with a 16650, and I’m now thinking about single cell configurations (but I don’t have any 16340s to test).



Yes works on my efest imr 16340 but not full brightness. Doesnt work on all my 1 cell sf e series bodies which is weird, it will thread on fine its just is low only. Im thinking the threads on those bodies are just a tad too short to engage high mode possibly? Same brightness as 16650 just dies a lot faster


----------



## JohnnyBravo

If I missed it somewhere in this long thread, please forgive. But on a 16650, about how many lumens can one expect vs. the 800 lumens from 2xCR123s...


----------



## Psypha

JohnnyBravo said:


> If I missed it somewhere in this long thread, please forgive. But on a 16650, about how many lumens can one expect vs. the 800 lumens from 2xCR123s...



I run the the tactician head on lx2 body. Low I get 40-60 lumens and high is about 500-600 lumens. Running a Sanyo 16650. Still get the 5 lumens low low when loosening the head.


----------



## Bronc6901

Psypha said:


> I run the the tactician head on lx2 body. Low I get 40-60 lumens and high is about 500-600 lumens. Running a Sanyo 16650. Still get the 5 lumens low low when loosening the head.



Wow, that’s an awesome setup! I might need to look into this


----------



## BigBluefish

Psypha said:


> I run the the tactician head on lx2 body. Low I get 40-60 lumens and high is about 500-600 lumens. Running a Sanyo 16650. Still get the 5 lumens low low when loosening the head.



:thinking: looks at AZ2...



:thumbsup:

Dang. Now I have to buy one of these.


----------



## bykfixer

Ugh!!! Making it tough to not pull the trigger.


----------



## Psypha

BigBluefish said:


> :thinking: looks at AZ2...
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> Dang. Now I have to buy one of these.



You will love this setup. The low is high enough to use for most uses. I use the low more than anything. And if you want a low low just loosen the head. My battery charge lasts for the entire week too. I am constantly using it too as I am an HVAC tech/ mechanic.


----------



## Bronc6901

Wondering what would happen running this head on the edcl-1 body......


----------



## stephenthesuave

New Tactician owner here... 

I played legos the other night when it came in to see what my options were.

I tried to put my E2L clip onto the tactician body and it fit the slot, but not with enough tension to hold it in place. It wiggles around a lot and won't hold pocket tension because it can move toward the head. Oh well, no biggie.

My preference is for clicky tailcaps anyway, so I'm using the tactician head on the e2l body with a Keeppower 16650 for now. 

I have a Nitecore RCR123 charging now to see what I can get out of a 1x123 MDC body and tactician head.

Also noteworthy (to me at least)- neither my KL4 nor 60/3 E2L head will turn on at all on the Tactician body.


----------



## JohnSmith

stephenthesuave said:


> New Tactician owner here...
> 
> My preference is for clicky tailcaps anyway, so I'm using the tactician head on the e2l body with a Keeppower 16650 for now.



I also prefer clickies, so I just added a standard clicky tailcap to the tactician body. Like you, I power it with a 16650. When used in this way, I think it’s Surefire’s best light in years. They market it as a special application “tactical” light, but with the addition of a clicky tailcap I think it’s the best general purpose light in their entire lineup.


----------



## BioMelodic

stephenthesuave said:


> I tried to put my E2L clip onto the tactician body and it fit the slot, but not with enough tension to hold it in place. It wiggles around a lot and won't hold pocket tension because it can move toward the head. Oh well, no biggie.



I am using a two-way clip from an EB2.... and it is loose also, but I placed a small piece of plastic behind the clip as a shim, and it works great now.... just fyi.


----------



## stephenthesuave

stephenthesuave said:


> New Tactician owner here...
> 
> I played legos the other night when it came in to see what my options were.
> 
> I tried to put my E2L clip onto the tactician body and it fit the slot, but not with enough tension to hold it in place. It wiggles around a lot and won't hold pocket tension because it can move toward the head. Oh well, no biggie.
> 
> My preference is for clicky tailcaps anyway, so I'm using the tactician head on the e2l body with a Keeppower 16650 for now.
> 
> I have a Nitecore RCR123 charging now to see what I can get out of a 1x123 MDC body and tactician head.
> 
> Also noteworthy (to me at least)- neither my KL4 nor 60/3 E2L head will turn on at all on the Tactician body.



No love for my 1x123 MDC with Nitecore RCR123. 

Still really liking the beam for an EDC light. I would love to find an LX2 body and tailcap eventually to gain a "medium" output.


----------



## Brasso

Is Surefire still putting green tinted led's in all their lights?


----------



## Vox Clamatis in Deserto

Brasso said:


> Is Surefire still putting green tinted led's in all their lights?



No, at least the E1B-MV and EDCL-2T that I bought recently have beautiful white tints. :thumbsup:

I found out how beautiful when I recently came across an early EB1C in a drawer, it is coke bottle green in comparison. :eeew:

Even a UM2 purchased last year has a distinctively green tint compared to the newer lights.


----------



## stephenthesuave

My Tactician is very white to my eyes. A little less blue than my 60/3 E2L and waaaaaay less green than my Titan. I have an M61 ill compare it to tonight.


----------



## teak

Good to hear everyone is liking the Tactician. I have been carrying mine since its release and really like it. I have bought a few more since its release. I feel if I can get 10 I should be good incase Surefire flips their lid again and goes back to making pointless lights..:twothumbs


----------



## Sean

Really like my Tactician. Not green at all. It’s better than I thought it would be. Great Wall of light. Very useful low output.


----------



## GrizzlyAdams

I've been using the tactician bezel on my lx2 body/tailcap after seeing it recommended hereon CPF, perfect combo for me.


----------



## Viper715

Anyone else wanting an E1T-MV. An EDC version of the Tactician? I’d like the size head that is on the Tactician with the twist for low or high in an E1 body with a click tailcap. I’ve got that setup to work but have to use a rcr123 and would like it as a replacement to my E1B-MV. Thoughts?


----------



## kssmith

Not sure if many care about this anymore; but I got a sweet serial number on mine:


----------



## Viper715

I like it! Anyone get 715 or 49, 47 or 42?


----------



## bubbatime

I put an old Surefire Z52 tactical twisty cap on mine. Its sleek and just right for me. Love it.


----------



## sohl

I bought a tactician today but didn't lite the head up and tried on a old vital gear fb2 body! work like a charm! smaller, head down, clicky and low/hight works fine!






[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## kssmith

sohl said:


> I bought a tactician today but didn't lite the head up and tried on a old vital gear fb2 body! work like a charm! smaller, head down, clicky and low/hight works fine!



Nice; Looks sweet!


----------



## sohl

I also tried and old e2d body and tailcap and it work good, high/low.


----------



## sohl

sohl said:


> I bought a tactician today but didn't lite the head up and tried on a old vital gear fb2 body! work like a charm! smaller, head down, clicky and low/hight works fine!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL][/IMG]



Just found out that the vital gear fb2 body takes 17650 batteries! I also have a borred out e2d body that takes 17650! Its nice to find use for some old stuff that have gathering dust for a while.


----------



## tango44

Why does my Tactician came with stickers on the package?
When did Surefire change it's run times?
Thank you.




[/IMG]


----------



## WarriorOfLight

See here:


----------



## Toehead

Are these twisty caps compatible with the E1B-MV? I really prefer the momentary only and twist for constant on. If the old Z52 fits the Tactician it should work. Does any vendor sell twisty tailcaps?


----------



## vadimax

Yeah, those 230 m of throw were extremely optimistic


----------



## Nimitz68

tango44 said:


> Why does my Tactician came with stickers on the package?
> When did Surefire change it's run times?
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]



Surefire was a tad optimistic on the throw and underestimated the run times. The packaging was incorrect as a result and the stickers were used to correct it. The lights are identical.


----------



## sohl

Nice little one!

High and low work good. using a rcr123 battery.


----------



## BioMelodic

sohl said:


> Nice little one!
> 
> High and low work good. using a rcr123 battery.



What type of output are you getting using only a single cell with the Tactician’s 2-cell head?


----------



## Toehead

Nice and compact! Looks like my Backup. Any idea how much light it has with only one cell?


----------



## sohl

BioMelodic said:


> What type of output are you getting using only a single cell with the Tactician’s 2-cell head?



sorry I don't have the equipment to measure that! but I would guess around 500l, you would get the same regarding if you use a 17650 or rcr123, both have same volt right?!


----------



## BioMelodic

sohl said:


> sorry I don't have the equipment to measure that! but I would guess around 500l, you would get the same regarding if you use a 17650 or rcr123, both have same volt right?!



I’m not sure, that’s why I asked... I like the single-cell size you have going on there.

Can anyone tell us if a single-cell can produce the same lumens as a double-cell, but with maybe just reduced runtime?.... or is a single cell incapable of producing the full output?


----------



## APS

GrizzlyAdams said:


> I've been using the tactician bezel on my lx2 body/tailcap after seeing it recommended hereon CPF, perfect combo for me.



Wow on this one. I've had an LX2 sitting around for years and not really happy with the low on the Tactician. I just tried this out. Awesome.


----------



## masakari

Hey, sorry to bump this up, but are the Tactician and Defender ultra bodies compatible? Meaning, if I buy both, can I swap the heads and tailcap between the two?
I want to use the Tactician clip on my Defender ultra... It doesn't fit. So if I buy a tactician, I would want to swap the bodies.
Thanks guys

Edit: I just bought them and figured it out... No, the Tactician head doesn't work on the defender ultra body. The threads are slightly shorter, so it only comes on low mode.
Now to decide whether to return the Tactician or sell off the head, tailcap, and Defender body separate...


----------



## Mikeg23

Viper715 said:


> Anyone else wanting an E1T-MV. An EDC version of the Tactician? I’d like the size head that is on the Tactician with the twist for low or high in an E1 body with a click tailcap. I’ve got that setup to work but have to use a rcr123 and would like it as a replacement to my E1B-MV. Thoughts?



I would like see a single cell version with this same user interface, for that matter even a two cell utilitarian version with this UI would be good!


----------



## Mikeg23

masakari said:


> Hey, sorry to bump this up, but are the Tactician and Defender ultra bodies compatible? Meaning, if I buy both, can I swap the heads and tailcap between the two?
> I want to use the Tactician clip on my Defender ultra... It doesn't fit. So if I buy a tactician, I would want to swap the bodies.
> Thanks guys
> 
> Edit: I just bought them and figured it out... No, the Tactician head doesn't work on the defender ultra body. The threads are slightly shorter, so it only comes on low mode.
> Now to decide whether to return the Tactician or sell off the head, tailcap, and Defender body separate...




I’ve tried the tactician head on two old E2e bodies and it worked perfect on one and bottomed out before making contact for high on the other. Additionally I’ve tried three different E2e tailcaps and while they all work they all leave different gaps... one just barely covers the oring


----------



## masakari

Mikeg23 said:


> I’ve tried the tactician head on two old E2e bodies and it worked perfect on one and bottomed out before making contact for high on the other. Additionally I’ve tried three different E2e tailcaps and while they all work they all leave different gaps... one just barely covers the oring



That's annoying. There are lots of cheap E2Es out there, but I won't know if one works with my Tactician without trying it first... What a pain.

Hey, also, with the Tactician/LX2 body combo, is there no constant on?


----------



## goofyman

Hey masakari
Got my today and the TT head works perfect on the LX2 body
the same function like with the original 
only that the low mode is brighter than on the TT body 
would say looks more to 30 or 40 Lumen


----------



## masakari

goofyman said:


> Hey masakari
> Got my today and the TT head works perfect on the LX2 body
> the same function like with the original
> only that the low mode is brighter than on the TT body
> would say looks more to 30 or 40 Lumen



Okay thanks! I was a bit confused by the previous posts, but I get it now.
How does the size compare to the Tactician as it comes standard? Does the LX2 body make it bigger and bulkier?


----------



## goofyman

No it looks perfect , same length maybe 1mm longer than the original TT
So its no problem
the Body and the head are the same dimension.


----------



## JBA

New (used) Tactician owner here. So far, I'm loving the size of the light and the beam pattern. Just getting used to the UI. The only thing is I'm having an issue with getting the high beam to come on. When I twist from low to get high it's meeting resistance and won't twist any further. If I remove the o-ring it rotates fine and I have no problem getting the high beam. I've tried moving the o-ring as low as I can on the threads but it's not helping any. Any ideas on why I'm having an issue? Can someone take a picture of their Tactician with the head removed so I can see how the o-ring is positioned?


----------



## JohnnyBravo

I think I'll go ahead and pull the trigger and get one this month. So far I've seen $112 shipped as the best price online. 

Once I have it, my SF collection will include: an incan 6p Original, P1R Peacekeeper dual mode, UM2, and the Tactician...


----------



## Tachead

Well, loving this light so far. Just threw a Lumens Factory Z52 momentary on it. It fits and works great for anyone looking for smaller option, without the lanyard ring, that maintains the intended function of the light. Here it is...


----------



## knucklegary

Mark's parts are excellent quality. Nice match up👍


----------



## Tachead

knucklegary said:


> Mark's parts are excellent quality. Nice match up👍


Yeah, these are my first parts from him and I am impressed. Thanks man👍.


----------



## maserati2011

Hi guys, sorry for mess this thread up. im from Việt Nam in asia. And i would like to buy another highend flashlight. And im confused about which one should i pick SF tactician or Malkoff MD2 with highlow ring. I dont have a chance to see it both in my country. So can you help me out with this. I love to know about the quality, the finishing, the beam, the runtime with lion battery... thank you all.


----------



## knucklegary

Maserati, I recommend to purchase both, you won't be disappointed in either of the two.. Chuc may man✌


----------



## Modernflame

Maserati, you might get more feedback if you create a new thread in the "recommend me a light" sub-forum under General Flashlight Discussion. Your question will get more visibility there.


----------



## Toehead

Can anyone confirm the Tactician E2T-MV head will fit all e-series bodies? I'd like to purchase an E2T-MV light and swap the body to single cell e-series. Either a surefire body, an oveready E35 body, or an overady modoolar slim 35mm body that is compatible with E head and P tails. I want a single cell, integrated z-grip, and MV head.


----------



## Psypha

Toehead said:


> Can anyone confirm the Tactician E2T-MV head will fit all e-series bodies? I'd like to purchase an E2T-MV light and swap the body to single cell e-series. Either a surefire body, an oveready E35 body, or an overady modoolar slim 35mm body that is compatible with E head and P tails. I want a single cell, integrated z-grip, and MV head.




I use my tactician head on a lx2 body with a Sanyo 16650. I tried it on a single cr123 body, SF backup and malkoff MDC and all you get is 5 lumens.


----------



## Tachead

Toehead said:


> Can anyone confirm the Tactician E2T-MV head will fit all e-series bodies? I'd like to purchase an E2T-MV light and swap the body to single cell e-series. Either a surefire body, an oveready E35 body, or an overady modoolar slim 35mm body that is compatible with E head and P tails. I want a single cell, integrated z-grip, and MV head.


No, unfortunately it will not work on all E-Series bodies. There is a bunch of discussion about this in the EDCL1-T thread as well as the Lumens Factory E-Series thread. The condensed version is that it works on some bodies but, only if the threaded section is long enough to engage high(experimentation may be required to find out which ones).

Also, in case you are unaware, the Tactician will loose some output on high when ran on a single 4.2V cell. Some have guessed you get around 500-600 lumens. I will say, there is not a large difference running my Tactician on 4.35V 16650's though.


----------



## Toehead

Every time I see you post I keep thinking I'm responding to myself.
Thanks for the information. I'm following the other threads and I see Lumens Factory is already considering an updated body. I was expecting lumens to be between 400-600, I currently have a 415 lumen light so that is good to hear it will be on the higher end.


----------



## Tachead

Toehead said:


> Every time I see you post I keep thinking I'm responding to myself.
> Thanks for the information. I'm following the other threads and I see Lumens Factory is already considering an updated body. I was expecting lumens to be between 400-600, I currently have a 415 lumen light so that is good to hear it will be on the higher end.



Lol, yeah our names are similar.

No problem👍.

Yeah, it is still plenty bright. I am going to say it is around 600-650 lumens running on a 4.35V Sanyo UR16650ZTA at startup. 

I can tell you that you only get low with the LF E1 body on a 16340. It is pretty nice though in this configuration. Here are a couple of pics in case you were wondering what it looks like(one by itself and one with the EDCL1-T for size comparison)...


----------



## Tachead

Well, my 2 way clip from Lumens Factory just came in and it fits somewhat(Not as tightly as the stock clip but, is useable). Here are some pics as requested...


----------



## Mikeg23

You may be aware of this already but in case any other readers are not... the reason your two way clip is loose is because you have it installed on a tactician body which is different from the other e-series bodies.

edit to add that when I posted this I thought I was in the lumens factory thread didn’t realize I was in the tactician thread...


----------



## Tachead

Mikeg23 said:


> You may be aware of this already but in case any other readers are not... the reason your two way clip is loose is because you have it installed on a tactician body which is different from the other e-series bodies.
> 
> edit to add that when I posted this I thought I was in the lumens factory thread didn’t realize I was in the tactician thread...


Yes, I am aware the clip channel in the body on the Tactician is wider. But, LF says this clip fits the Tactician right in the description so I figured it was modified to fit both or something. I plan to email Mark about this as it doesn't fit properly. The clip is useable but, it sure would be nice if he would make one that fits tightly with no side to side play. At very least he should put a disclaimer or remove the Tactician from the compatibility list so, there isn't any further confusion.

Edit: I spoke with Mark and he will be changing the description and apologized for the mixup. Great customer service as usual from Lumens Factory.


----------



## LRJ88

I received a brand spanking new Tactician today and looking at it straight out of the package i noticed the o-ring was squeezed outside of the head. I've already contacted SF about this but it's weird to think a flashlight at this price point from a company like SF would make such a simple mistake on a light that's supposed to be pretty much foolproof. 

I usually have really bad luck with things i order so i don't expect much more, but this is a new low.

https://imgur.com/a/z057a1Y


----------



## Tachead

LRJ88 said:


> I received a brand spanking new Tactician today and looking at it straight out of the package i noticed the o-ring was squeezed outside of the head. I've already contacted SF about this but it's weird to think a flashlight at this price point from a company like SF would make such a simple mistake on a light that's supposed to be pretty much foolproof.
> 
> I usually have really bad luck with things i order so i don't expect much more, but this is a new low.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/z057a1Y



Its hard to see anything in that pic but, if you are talking about in between the different pieces of the head, it could be the thread locker/silicone SF uses to seal their heads. Also, after a little research, I see that some of those joints use flat rubber gaskets as apposed to o-rings(in addition to the thread locker/silicone). So, if a bit of the gasket is showing it very likely is still sealed and makes no difference. Honestly, either way I would just use it man and utilize the lifetime warranty if needed.


----------



## LRJ88

Tachead said:


> Its hard to see anything in that pic but, if you are talking about in between the different pieces of the head, it could be the thread locker/silicone SF uses to seal their heads. Also, after a little research, I see that some of those joints use flat rubber gaskets as apposed to o-rings(in addition to the thread locker/silicone). So, if a bit of the gasket is showing it very likely is still sealed and makes no difference. Honestly, either way I would just use it man and utilize the lifetime warranty if needed.



I'm talking about between the different pieces of the head, might be the thread locker or a flat gasket, now i at least have it documented and seeing as how having it serviced from Sweden is a rather huge pain in the nethers if it's something that could save me a lot of effort in the long run with some clarification on their end.


----------



## Tachead

LRJ88 said:


> I'm talking about between the different pieces of the head, might be the thread locker or a flat gasket, now i at least have it documented and seeing as how having it serviced from Sweden is a rather huge pain in the nethers if it's something that could save me a lot of effort in the long run with some clarification on their end.



Good point, at least now SF knows about it. 

I didn't realize you were offshore. I feel your pain, though to a lesser degree, as I am closer to the US in Canada. 

Is their any way you could swap it out with the vendor or? I will say that the gasket on mine isn't perfect all the way around either, I think it is just the nature of a flat rubber washer used in this application.


----------



## LRJ88

Tachead said:


> Good point, at least now SF knows about it.
> 
> I didn't realize you were offshore. I feel your pain, though to a lesser degree, as I am closer to the US in Canada.
> 
> Is their any way you could swap it out with the vendor or? I will say that the gasket on mine isn't perfect all the way around either, I think it is just the nature of a flat rubber washer used in this application.



Sadly it's a no-go on the vendor, i got it through Amazon and they direct me directly to SF themselves, otherwise i'd happily drag my behind there and have them change it. I'm hoping i'm just overly cautious, i have a long history of getting lemons, and at this point i wouldn't be surprised getting a hand-picked and custom made lemon as well just because my luck is so bad.


----------



## Tachead

LRJ88 said:


> Sadly it's a no-go on the vendor, i got it through Amazon and they direct me directly to SF themselves, otherwise i'd happily drag my behind there and have them change it. I'm hoping i'm just overly cautious, i have a long history of getting lemons, and at this point i wouldn't be surprised getting a hand-picked and custom made lemon as well just because my luck is so bad.


Again, I feel your pain as I have the same luck lol.


----------



## Tachead

For those looking for a 1-cell body option for the Tactician...

The Tactician head works perfectly on my new Malkoff MDC CR123A Body with an unprotected flat top Efest V1 16340(with slightly reduced high mode output like on a 16650 of course).


----------



## Mikeg23

Tachead said:


> For those looking for a 1-cell body option for the Tactician...
> 
> The Tactician head works perfectly on my new Malkoff MDC CR123A Body with an unprotected flat top Efest V1 16340(with slightly reduced high mode output like on a 16650 of course).



That looks really cool. Don’t know why I hadn’t considered an mdc body?


----------



## Tachead

Mikeg23 said:


> That looks really cool. Don’t know why I hadn’t considered an mdc body?


Yeah, the vertical ribbing matches and everything. It almost looks like it is factory. Definitely a cool E-Lego.


----------



## LRJ88

About a month later and having been redirected to international support i've yet to get any proper reply regarding my tactician and the o-ring/gasket that's sticking out of the head. Does anyone outside of North America have any experience in the time it takes to get an answer from their CS?


Also, thanks to Tachead for posting your photos with the LF tailcap, i've got one of those coming my way now as well as some different boots for it.


----------



## Tachead

LRJ88 said:


> About a month later and having been redirected to international support i've yet to get any proper reply regarding my tactician and the o-ring/gasket that's sticking out of the head. Does anyone outside of North America have any experience in the time it takes to get an answer from their CS?
> 
> 
> Also, thanks to Tachead for posting your photos with the LF tailcap, i've got one of those coming my way now as well as some different boots for it.



Give SF a call and they will help you out. Email is not the best way to deal with them I hear. 

No problem man, hope you like it👍.


----------



## LRJ88

Tachead said:


> Give SF a call and they will help you out. Email is not the best way to deal with them I hear.
> 
> No problem man, hope you like it.



Just as a small update on it i've been unable to reach SF on the phone, with no mail. Aaand the tailcap is lost in transit somewhere so my luck really shines through.


----------



## u2u

In thirty years of using Surefire products I have only had a couple of tail cap issues. A short phone call and support sent replacements pronto. The best part of their support is you don’t need it often. Just got a Tactician by mail in Canada. Two days of heavy use and I could not be more pleased. The fit and finish are flawless, handling and beam are superb, and the overall package nails it for my EDC needs. If you have a light with issues work through them, the effort will be worth it. The Tactician is the best value Surefire I have used...


----------



## euroken

Speaking of Surefire customer service, I feel it’s a hit or a miss. I contacted them for a badly offset led on e1bmv and they got back to me in a day asking to send the light in. Once I sent it in, no response in ten days after the light was received by Surefire. I’ve reached out to them already but nothing back yet. 

I think it’s getting taken care of but I feel kept in the dark without comm. Just wanted share my experience.


----------



## Bronc6901

Don’t mean to bring up an old thread, but I love my tactician and have it with me every day either on me or in my go-bag. Anyone use a malkoff edc body with one of the tactician heads and still get a high and low?


----------



## battledrill3

Just about full zombie thread, I realize.

This light ... is by far my favorite flashlight I have owned. Unbelievably, its functionality with regards to input controls, is exactly what I wanted. Perfect size. 

I love it so much that I'm changing all my EDC and carry tools, as well as camping tools, to those that take CR123, or in this case K2 LiFePo4. 

Formerly rocked the Peak Eiger, though I found the gas pedal and twist head to be a tad wonky but best around in terms of controls. Ordered LF E-series head, looking for the slightly shorter length and prouder button; waiting for upcoming options for body and clips from LF as well. 

In terms of a self-defense tool, with 10 years in the US Army as an Airborne Infantryman to include side duties as a combatives (hand-to-hand) instructor, this light is perfect for that need in my opinion.... Probably jumped into a bunch of threads at once, but hey, it's my first post.


----------



## archimedes

battledrill3 said:


> Just about full zombie thread, I realize.... Probably jumped into a bunch of threads at once, but hey, it's my first post.



Hello and welcome to CPF

Your post above has been approved, in edited form. The tangential, off topic (personal and non-flashlight related), and potentially divisive material was removed. Paragraphs and line breaks were also added, to improve readability.

Thank you for your understanding.


----------



## wicky998

Does anyone have solid numbers on runtimes and outputs running this head on a single cell? 

Preferably 16340/14500?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jose Marin

Jose Marin said:


> Finally got around to doing some runtime tests. Not very impressive but looks like 16650 is best choice for continuous runtime, 123s are middle ground and 16340 for longest brightest output. I terminated tests early because it's boring recording that low of output, i bet the 16650 could of ran another 1hr at a fairly bright output. Enjoy
> I measured from 1 meter
> 2x16340 4kcd
> 2x sf123 4kcd
> 1x 16650 3.2kcd



Right here

For 16340 and 14500 it would start at the same line as 16650 but have considerably less runtime. This head was no optimized for single lion, youre better off using the e1b mv


----------



## wicky998

Jose Marin said:


> Right here
> 
> For 16340 and 14500 it would start at the same line as 16650 but have considerably less runtime. This head was no optimized for single lion, youre better off using the e1b mv



Thanks bro 

Appreciate it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wicky998

anyone have pictures of this head on a malkoff 16650 body


----------



## Tachead

wicky998 said:


> anyone have pictures of this head on a malkoff 16650 body


One sec, I will play Lego and take you some...

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## Tachead

Keep in mind that high does not work reliably due to the Tactician's body having longer then normal threads compared to a standard E-Series. Mark from Lumens Factory is planing to make a body with longer threads to accommodate the Tactician head I believe. No idea on the timeframe however... 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## Tachead

I have a E1B-MV arriving tomorrow if you want anymore Lego pics with it Wicky. I'm working a 16 tomorrow though so, it will have to be Friday. 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## wicky998

Tachead said:


> I have a E1B-MV arriving tomorrow if you want anymore Lego pics with it Wicky. I'm working a 16 tomorrow though so, it will have to be Friday.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk



No tac, the pictures was perfecto

Much appreciated buddy [emoji1364]

So what’s your output on the 16650 body, I know it’s not 800, but is it atleast 200 or so?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jrgold

Tachead said:


> Keep in mind that high does not work reliably due to the Tactician's body having longer then normal threads compared to a standard E-Series. Mark from Lumens Factory is planing to make a body with longer threads to accommodate the Tactician head I believe. No idea on the timeframe however...
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk



wouldnt a couple oveready spring washers fix this issue?


----------



## wicky998

jrgold said:


> wouldnt a couple oveready spring washers fix this issue?



That’s a good point JG


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tachead

jrgold said:


> wouldnt a couple oveready spring washers fix this issue?


Unfortunately no. 

For starters, the channel between the battery buffer and threads on a Tactician head is much more narrow then the OR washers. Second, the head switches to high when the end of the cell tube makes contact with flat at the bottom of the head threads. If you used a spring washer you would either get high all of the time or it would flicker from high to low when shook unless backed way off(and even then it may flicker). 

The only way I could see making it work other then making a body with a longer threaded section(like LF is doing), is to manufacture a flat Beryllium Copper washer the right thickness and friction fit it or glue it so it can't move. I haven't had a good look yet but, it may also be possible to use a blob of solder. Either way, I dont want the Lego to work that badly lol. 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## akula88

My personal and removable solution to be able to use the E2T head with my EDCL1/E1B bodies is by using an old telephone solid copper wire.


----------



## Tachead

akula88 said:


> My personal and removable solution to be able to use the E2T head with my EDCL1/E1B bodies is by using an old telephone solid copper wire.


I missed this post some how. Good idea. How does it work for switching back and forth between high and low? Do you have to back it off lots? Any flickering to high mode when light is banged on your hand in low? 


Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## akula88

So far it's been functionally reliable, although I'm a casual user. 

I always start on low, and twist-tight to high. Works like a clock so far.

I just pull out the copper coil wire with a hobby twizzer if I use the head with the original E2T body.


----------



## Tachead

Thanks[emoji106]. 

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


----------



## LRJ88

I've run into an issue which i hope that someone here could help me with, have any of you noticed accelerated head o-ring wear or burrs on the head-end body threads? I've had to change the o-ring once already because it was starting to wear out on half of it, and i noticed there's a pronounced burr on the thread that seems to scrape against it when manipulating the head.


----------



## XJGPN

So, at the beginning of the thread there are a bunch of dead links to Yeager’s videos about this light. I believe those were from his old account. Does anyone know if those videos are hosted anywhere else now? Or just lost forever?


----------



## 340pd

Tachead said:


> I have a E1B-MV arriving tomorrow if you want anymore Lego pics with it Wicky. I'm working a 16 tomorrow though so, it will have to be Friday.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk


r

Good people here.


----------



## wicky998

Tac is a solid guy [emoji1364]


----------



## sumterjr

Two days of heavy use and I could not be more pleased. The fit and finish are flawless, handling and beam are superb, and the overall package nails it for my EDC needs. If you have a light with issues work through them, the effort will be worth it.


----------



## LRJ88

I can't find an option for a smaller image, but you can see issue i mentioned earlier here with the threads. That's chewing up the o-ring on it when the head rotates.


----------



## jhc37013

LRJ88 said:


> I can't find an option for a smaller image, but you can see issue i mentioned earlier here with the threads. That's chewing up the o-ring on it when the head rotates.


You can try some 1000 grit sand paper then maybe 800 to smooth out those sharps edges that might help it send it back to Surefire.


----------



## scout24

I have a question: Does the Tactician have tailcap threas like a regular e series (e2e, e1e) type light, or like an L1/LX2/A2? Thanks...


----------



## wicky998

scout24 said:


> I have a question: Does the Tactician have tailcap threas like a regular e series (e2e, e1e) type light, or like an L1/LX2/A2? Thanks...



E2e e1e threads


----------



## scout24

Thanks, Wicky. 👍


----------



## BugoutBoys

Does changing from 800lm to 5lm happen by actually loosening the entire head? Or is there a separate part that rotates? Similar to the V1 or Aviators?


----------



## WarriorOfLight

BugoutBoys said:


> Does changing from 800lm to 5lm happen by actually loosening the entire head? ​


 yes
​


BugoutBoys said:


> Or is there a separate part that rotates? Similar to the V1 or Aviators?


 no


----------



## BugoutBoys

aw darn. I feel like that's an inefficient way of doing it? Then you compromise on water resistance I feel like?


----------



## LRJ88

BugoutBoys said:


> aw darn. I feel like that's an inefficient way of doing it? Then you compromise on water resistance I feel like?



Not really, there is an o-ring in the head, it's perfectly waterproof during normal use both with the head and tailcap.


----------



## lamepro

Not sure if this is the right place but i tried my malkoff MDC 16650 head on my surefire tactician body and loved it! today i dropped it while working on my truck and notice the light changed modes. i was able to repeat this issue by hitting the light on my hand. i contacted gene over at malkoff and he suggested stretching the springs in the head and tail cap which i tried with no improvement. anyone have any ideas how to get this to work properly?


----------



## LRJ88

lamepro said:


> Not sure if this is the right place but i tried my malkoff MDC 16650 head on my surefire tactician body and loved it! today i dropped it while working on my truck and notice the light changed modes. i was able to repeat this issue by hitting the light on my hand. i contacted gene over at malkoff and he suggested stretching the springs in the head and tail cap which i tried with no improvement. anyone have any ideas how to get this to work properly?




When you hit the head, did you hit it with a swinging motion onto your palm or more bezel first into your hand? I'm just wondering, because it could be the tailcap too causing these issues. I'd suggest you try using some aluminium foil or a paperclip or similar to bridge the tail-end contacts and see if you can still replicate it after that as well.


----------



## lamepro

LRJ88 said:


> When you hit the head, did you hit it with a swinging motion onto your palm or more bezel first into your hand? I'm just wondering, because it could be the tailcap too causing these issues. I'd suggest you try using some aluminium foil or a paperclip or similar to bridge the tail-end contacts and see if you can still replicate it after that as well.



Yes I hit the head on my palm in a swinging motion and today tried dropping it on the floor (dropped bezel and tailcap down as well as flat and it still changes modes in all variations ) i did also try the same thing with an e1b tailcap with the same results. can you clarify what you mean by bridging the contacts or how should I go about doinf/testing it?


----------



## LRJ88

lamepro said:


> Yes I hit the head on my palm in a swinging motion and today tried dropping it on the floor (dropped bezel and tailcap down as well as flat and it still changes modes in all variations ) i did also try the same thing with an e1b tailcap with the same results. can you clarify what you mean by bridging the contacts or how should I go about doinf/testing it?



With the Surefire tailcaps they don't necessarily always make positive contact all the time, on my tactician i notice flickering while using the standard tailcap, the Lumensfactory Z52 in momentary configuration, and the same with a McClicky. If you remove the tailcap, take a piece of aluminium foil and ball it up so it's slightly larger than the hole in the body, and then jam that ball in there so the light is in constant on and also keeping as much contact surface available on both the body and battery, that should let you rule out the tailcap moving ever so slightly and causing the break in the circuit that'd otherwise trip the mode change.

I've not noticed any issues with the head itself on mine when it comes to any flicker, but with this you can at least see if the tailcap and not the head is the culprit. Otherwise i can only recommend cleaning all threads again so there isn't a dodgy path to begin with and then that gets tripped on impact.


----------



## lamepro

LRJ88 said:


> With the Surefire tailcaps they don't necessarily always make positive contact all the time, on my tactician i notice flickering while using the standard tailcap, the Lumensfactory Z52 in momentary configuration, and the same with a McClicky. If you remove the tailcap, take a piece of aluminium foil and ball it up so it's slightly larger than the hole in the body, and then jam that ball in there so the light is in constant on and also keeping as much contact surface available on both the body and battery, that should let you rule out the tailcap moving ever so slightly and causing the break in the circuit that'd otherwise trip the mode change.
> 
> I've not noticed any issues with the head itself on mine when it comes to any flicker, but with this you can at least see if the tailcap and not the head is the culprit. Otherwise i can only recommend cleaning all threads again so there isn't a dodgy path to begin with and then that gets tripped on impact.




I'll give that a try when I get home. Is it possible to replace the switch inside the tactician tailcap with one that would be more reliable or would I just need an new tailcap all together to get this to work reliably?


----------



## LRJ88

lamepro said:


> I'll give that a try when I get home. Is it possible to replace the switch inside the tactician tailcap with one that would be more reliable or would I just need an new tailcap all together to get this to work reliably?



If it is the tailcap that's causing these issues it's possible that getting another one would solve the issues, what i've found to help somewhat is to put some non-permanent marker pen on the very end of the body right where the body makes contact with the little shelf inside the tailcap, and then twisting it on a couple of times, chances are that the rim isn't completely flat and that you have some high spots that makes it jump around without making solid contact when the flashlight is being subjected to impacts and a few minutes with a flat surface and extremely mild abrasive can give you more surface area for the contacts.


----------



## lamepro

LRJ88 said:


> If it is the tailcap that's causing these issues it's possible that getting another one would solve the issues, what i've found to help somewhat is to put some non-permanent marker pen on the very end of the body right where the body makes contact with the little shelf inside the tailcap, and then twisting it on a couple of times, chances are that the rim isn't completely flat and that you have some high spots that makes it jump around without making solid contact when the flashlight is being subjected to impacts and a few minutes with a flat surface and extremely mild abrasive can give you more surface area for the contacts.



so i tried the tinfoil in the tailcap and was able to shake the light and get it to change modes. i put the tactican tailcap back on and realized if i shook it forward and back i could also change the modes. also tried the E1B tailcap and was able to get the same results.


----------



## LRJ88

lamepro said:


> so i tried the tinfoil in the tailcap and was able to shake the light and get it to change modes. i put the tactican tailcap back on and realized if i shook it forward and back i could also change the modes. also tried the E1B tailcap and was able to get the same results.



What happens if you wiggle the head a little bit or try to get it to move on top of the body without unscrewing it?


----------



## lamepro

LRJ88 said:


> What happens if you wiggle the head a little bit or try to get it to move on top of the body without unscrewing it?



head is on tight no movement. i did notice that the surefire tactician head has a plastic spacer type thing around the spring while the MDC only has a spring. i tried shaking the light more this morning and can hear the battery bounce when i do and the light changes moves. so it looks like i need some kind of spacer to strop the battery from moving?


----------



## LRJ88

lamepro said:


> head is on tight no movement. i did notice that the surefire tactician head has a plastic spacer type thing around the spring while the MDC only has a spring. i tried shaking the light more this morning and can hear the battery bounce when i do and the light changes moves. so it looks like i need some kind of spacer to strop the battery from moving?



It's worth trying out, you could try something as simple as some paper rolled around the battery to begin with it keep it in place, especially with the spring on the Malkoff being of a different design than the Tactician head. If it weren't for the risk of shorting it out it could almost be worth trying to make a sort of contact plate on the spring to keep it in contact with the battery better.


----------



## lamepro

LRJ88 said:


> It's worth trying out, you could try something as simple as some paper rolled around the battery to begin with it keep it in place, especially with the spring on the Malkoff being of a different design than the Tactician head. If it weren't for the risk of shorting it out it could almost be worth trying to make a sort of contact plate on the spring to keep it in contact with the battery better.



so i tried some electrical tape and was able to get it to work as it should but the battery is so snug i have to push it out with a pencil. any other ideas?


----------



## Slumber

Use a sheet of paper cut to the length of the batteries, and reduce the width rolled around them until the batteries barely slide in. I do this to almost all lights to eliminate rattle. You can put a "Reward If Found" note with your phone number on it.


----------



## Fish 14

Anyone know what the draw is on a TACTICIAN


----------



## LRJ88

lamepro said:


> so i tried some electrical tape and was able to get it to work as it should but the battery is so snug i have to push it out with a pencil. any other ideas?



I can only really reiterate what i mentioned before and what Slumber Pass showed as well, making a small sleeve out of paper around the battery to keep it in place there. Try it and see if that helps on yours, if i were to guess that should solve most of your issues right there.


----------



## Monocrom

Always seem late to the party. Have one on its way to me in the mail. It's going to be competing with a 600 rated lumens polymer Streamlight model for primary use as my new main EDC light.


----------



## Fish 14

Monocrom said:


> Always seem late to the party. Have one on its way to me in the mail. It's going to be competing with a 600 rated lumens polymer Streamlight model for primary use as my new main EDC light.


Good choice, dump that crappy streamlight.


----------



## carrot

Monocrom said:


> Always seem late to the party. Have one on its way to me in the mail. It's going to be competing with a 600 rated lumens polymer Streamlight model for primary use as my new main EDC light.



How do you like it? I ended up getting one too.


----------



## Monocrom

carrot said:


> How do you like it? I ended up getting one too.



It's fantastic. I love how the lower setting never gets in the way. Also, if you take advantage of the lanyard set-up on it, you transform the light into a Koppo stick. But James Yeager refers to it as a retention device for the light in case you need both hands to grab something. Yeah.... it's a Koppo stick at that point.


----------



## Jose Marin

Fish 14 said:


> Anyone know what the draw is on a TACTICIAN



2x16340 1.5 amp
2x123 2.5 amp
1x16650 1.8 amp


----------



## neutralwhite

are these still for sale anywhere ? 
I am in the UK though. thanks.


----------



## LRJ88

neutralwhite said:


> are these still for sale anywhere ?
> I am in the UK though. thanks.




It seems quite a few places still have them, but a lot have stopped carrying them, i reckon the worst issue will be the shipping cost still though. I'm unsure if i can post links to companies selling them or not here.


----------



## carrot

Monocrom said:


> It's fantastic. I love how the lower setting never gets in the way. Also, if you take advantage of the lanyard set-up on it, you transform the light into a Koppo stick. But James Yeager refers to it as a retention device for the light in case you need both hands to grab something. Yeah.... it's a Koppo stick at that point.



I couldn't get into the lanyard ring. I clipped it off last week. 

I'm finding the output on 16650 a little underwhelming. Despite that, I like it enough that I consider it one of the few lights I'd specifically grab on my way out the door. 

Surefire, please give us an 18650 light platform in the same vein as the old E-series.


----------



## Jose Marin

Even just 3-6v regular 2 cell e series would be great. All my favorite sf's are 2 cell e series but only have full out put with 2x 123 or 2x16340. Would rather run 16650, there's always something lol.


----------



## GoVegan

[Deleted question as not related to the subject of this thread.]


----------



## Monocrom

carrot said:


> I couldn't get into the lanyard ring. I clipped it off last week.
> 
> I'm finding the output on 16650 a little underwhelming. Despite that, I like it enough that I consider it one of the few lights I'd specifically grab on my way out the door.
> 
> Surefire, please give us an 18650 light platform in the same vein as the old E-series.




Would love such an 18650 light, myself. :thumbsup:


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Yeh, yeh, I know, Johnny Come Lately here. I think I mentioned buying this in 2018, and I finally did just a few minutes ago. My UM2 is the dedicated bump in the night light on my nightstand along w/ my Beretta APX; but I think this Tactician will bump the UM2 to the flashlight shelves. So this will be my first Maxvision light from SF. I'll see how it compares to my TIR and Reflector lensed lights. Still cogitating on whether to keep it OEM and just use CR123s, or invest in an Orbtronic 16650, Hmm...


----------



## bubbatime

JohnnyBravo said:


> My UM2 is the dedicated bump in the night light on my nightstand along w/ my Beretta APX; but I think this Tactician will bump the UM2 to the flashlight shelves. ... Still cogitating on whether *to keep it OEM and just use CR123s, or invest in an Orbtronic 16650*, Hmm...



The easiest question ever answered. Its for a home defense flashlight, you use CR123 batteries. 

All home defense guns should have a white light mounted to them if possible. I can recommend the Streamlight TLR8A for the Beretta Pistol if you dont already have a light mounted.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Thanks for the input. And since this light won't be used as an EDC or something, I agree that CR123s would be fine. Should last quite a while. I think the 16650 would be better suited for regular normal/daily use etc.


----------



## carrot

Is it just me, or does the clip wobble side-to-side on the Tactician? My clip wobbles, and more than just a bit. Surefire sent me a new clip, but the replacement wobbles as well.


----------



## LRJ88

carrot said:


> Is it just me, or does the clip wobble side-to-side on the Tactician? My clip wobbles, and more than just a bit. Surefire sent me a new clip, but the replacement wobbles as well.




How much wobble are we talking? On the Tactician that i sent in for a replacement there was maybe 1mm wobble at the very end of the clip and i'm not entirely sure that wasn't the actual clip flexing more on mine.


----------



## carrot

LRJ88 said:


> How much wobble are we talking? On the Tactician that i sent in for a replacement there was maybe 1mm wobble at the very end of the clip and i'm not entirely sure that wasn't the actual clip flexing more on mine.



I want to say a bit over 2mm at the tip and it’s definitely not the clip flexing. It moves with *very* light force.


----------



## LRJ88

carrot said:


> I want to say a bit over 2mm at the tip and it’s definitely not the clip flexing. It moves with *very* light force.



I didn't have any issues with that much of it, did you check the clip and channel when you changed clips?


----------



## carrot

LRJ88 said:


> I didn't have any issues with that much of it, did you check the clip and channel when you changed clips?



Nothing looked especially botched on either side to me. I sent an email to Surefire but they sassed me when I asked for a new clip the first go-round.


----------



## LRJ88

carrot said:


> Nothing looked especially botched on either side to me. I sent an email to Surefire but they sassed me when I asked for a new clip the first go-round.



I've been having some issues on that front too. If it's something that you feel bothers you a lot you could potentially see if you can get a copper paper clip or similar, shave it down until it fits snugly next to the clip, and then press the clip into place to lock it there more with less side play.


----------



## Monocrom

carrot said:


> Is it just me, or does the clip wobble side-to-side on the Tactician? My clip wobbles, and more than just a bit. Surefire sent me a new clip, but the replacement wobbles as well.




Oh! No. Mine is rock solid. Zero wobble. Possibly an issue with the mount that the clip is set into? Mine is perfect.


----------



## JohnnyBravo

Have had mine for a few days now. It's smaller and more slender than I thought, which is good. My clip is rigid. I'm glad they deleted the FC before the CE; and the CE is subdued a bit with its grey look instead of bright white. The wide/floody beam pattern is wonderful, and my s/n is: A10780

This is my first MaxVision light from SF and it won't be my last...


----------



## Monocrom

JohnnyBravo said:


> Have had mine for a few days now. It's smaller and more slender than I thought, which is good. My clip is rigid. I'm glad they deleted the FC before the CE; and the CE is subdued a bit with its grey look instead of bright white. The wide/floody beam pattern is wonderful, and my s/n is: A10780
> 
> This is my first MaxVision light from SF and it won't be my last...




Having owned other MaxVision models from SureFire, I can tell you that you already have the best one.


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## JohnnyBravo

And earlier this AM, I had a need to look in the lower drawer of my nightstand whilst wifey was still asleep. No other light nearby other than the Tactician. Then I remembered twisting the head would be low. Worked like a charm!


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## Monocrom

So, used mine at work last night due to the hurricane that came through. Had to document all the entrances/exits blocked off by *large* fallen tree branches. Service Entrance doors have a road running between them and the end of the parking lot on that side. Half the road blocked off by two actual trees (not just branches) that looked like they were struck by lightening and snapped into 3rds! 

Out came my SF Tactician. Unfortunately I really needed a light with a good combination of throw and flood to check out the damages without getting too close. Yeah..... as good as it is, as much as I love it; this just wasn't the right light for the job. 

Even more fun, driving home after work, I typically top off the gas tank on Wednesdays. Gas station was packed. So decided to drive to another one, giant fallen tree blocking the road completely. Same road I take to work. Thankfully the tree was down past the gate I pull into for work. Sure was fun hanging a U-Turn.


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## LRJ88

I have a question that's somewhat related to this forum due to the nature of what's been going on. Does the support rating you give to Surefire affect the individual, and more looks at just good or bad than what it actually says, or does it just go for the whole department?

A year and a half ago i got my Surefire Tactician, upon opening the package i noticed the head gasket sticking out a fair bit and i contacted Surefire about this, asking if this was out of norm and to have it documented with pictures in case it pops up as an issue in the future. I was told that i'd be contacted by an international representative, something which never happened. The flashlight still worked and the images of how the head was built in this thread helped soothe my worries of having gotten another complete lemon.

Fast forward to May this year, and i had to replace the head-side body o-ring due to the threads nearest the o-ring having a shape more similar to a saw than a wedge (pictures are available on page 24, that's not just a burr you can file down) and them having worn out the o-ring to the point it wasn't tight on anymore. Another call to Surefire and i got in touch with one of their representatives who noticed that i hadn't been getting help for the first issue yet and still had a request, he reactivated that and i went over the issues with him, we ended up agreeing that i should just send the whole flashlight in and have it replaced to make sure that it's all fine. An international representative was to contact me and i'd get the address and RMA, all happy times and it seemed things were actually working this time around. A month later i still had not been contacted, a mail back to the guy i talked to and he fixed the address, RMA, and all that jazz, back in business. Surefire received the flashlight and then no word for 5 more weeks, i figured that there's a lot of stuff going on, so i'll mail them and ask to make sure it hadn't been "forgotten" again, the answer i got back was that my flashlight was ready to ship and they'd changed out the head. Happy as i was over this i asked if the threads on the body had also been examined, only to get a response saying that this wasn't in the RMA, the RMA which i talked to the guy about on the phone and sending him pictures while describing the issue. A mail back and a quick call to technical support and they are now going to send out a brand new flashlight instead.

Now, throughout all of this i've been giving positive support reviews, i've been positive about the representative while trying to not be too negative about lack of service because i don't think that the individual representative needs to get chewed out for something someone else was supposed to do. Now however i'm tempted to give a negative review, not because the representative wasn't helpful, but because it's taken 18 months in total, several phone calls, mails back and forth, time, effort, and money, and something still keeps going wrong on their end. I want them to know that what's happened hasn't been good, i want them to be aware of just how many hoops it's taken to get service from them and how they need to sort their crap out, but i want it done without them putting all the blame on the person who happened to pick up the phone that day rather than whoever didn't do their job down the line.


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## aznsx

LRJ88: Thank you for your very enlightening post, and for taking the time to post it. I think you told this long-time (very) factory 'Product Support Engineer' exactly what he needed to know. Patience is usually a virtue, and over the years I've developed a lot of it. I think you may have more than I do. I hope your problem(s) finally get resolved .... 'while you're young'


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## LRJ88

aznsx said:


> LRJ88: Thank you for your very enlightening post, and for taking the time to post it. I think you told this long-time (very) factory 'Product Support Engineer' exactly what he needed to know. Patience is usually a virtue, and over the years I've developed a lot of it. I think you may have more than I do. I hope your problem(s) finally get resolved .... 'while you're young'



Thank you. I've worked with some things where the patience needed for this has been child's play, but it's frustrating to contact them and not being sure that what you said actually stuck and that they'll do something. In this case i could have understood it if the first representative to begin with had forgotten to forward the request to international or if international had somehow missed it, marked it as done when it wasn't, mistakes do happen. When it turns out those aren't mistakes, that they are the norm at least in my case though then i can't be as lenient on it, they're a big company and it shouldn't be my responsibility as a costumer to handhold them through the entire process and remind them of their own job simply to ensure that i get what i paid for.


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## LRJ88

So, i received the replacement Tactician after dealing with customer service for far more than what should be necessary, and upon inspecting the flashlight i notice that the QC on it is down the drain. There's burrs on the threads, which thankfully this time they were burrs and not damaged threads like the old one. There's areas where the anodising has already been scraped off. The pocket clip looked like someone had literally hammered it in crooked. 

What's going on over at Surefire? This is a brand new light that looks like a refurb with factory second parts, i wouldn't mind buying a factory second with these things if the price reflected that, but right now it seems more like they've put a monkey to write the CNC code for the machines and had the same monkey inspect the tooling for it as well. These are rookie mistakes, things you learn to avoid when you learn how to use the machines.

On the other hand, i do like the new head design with more dimples in the head, and they've somehow managed to avoid a lot of the flickering from the momentary action if you don't push that button like a gorilla.


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## chillinn

chillinn said:


> When identified, can someone please post Surefire's internal z number for Tactician's new momentary-only tail cap, and if/where it can be purchased separately (presumably as a replacement).



Bump! LOL What's the dillio on purchasing Tactician tail caps separately?


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## LRJ88

Looking over the revisions to the Tactician now i've been unable to find anything tracking the actual revisions done to the model over the time it's been available. The changes i've noticed so far from my original one include:

1. Different head design, 8 dimples instead of 6, even though the old drawings of the light also had 8 dimples.
2. Different clip/body slot, there's now a compound used to affix the clip with the clip being thinner or the body slot being wider so the clip doesn't get any friction. The clip on the new one is 1mm thickness, for reference.
3. Different or poor surface treatment of the clip, mine wasn't fully covered on the second flashlight and has developed many rust spots, while the first one had an even Glock-like finish.


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## Jason_Tx

Anyone know where I might find a beamshot comparison between the Tactician and Stiletto Pro? Preferably from the same person / time / location / weather conditions etc... and with same camera settings. I've searched and searched. 
Trying to decide which one to get, which is one tough decision. 
Ya ya, I know...... get both stupid! 

Thanks


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## lumensbadger

Don't know if we have touched on this subject yet, but here it goes:

I was thinking of yet another useful Lego, since I have an old E1B body floating around. 

Has anyone tried running the Tactian head on a single 16340? My thought was to run the Keeppower protected 16340 in the 4 amps variant. That should cover me on the high currency shutdown side. 

If the Tacticians runs fine in 16650s, it should do the same on 16340s - obviously with a big reduction in runtime. But let's be honest. How often do we really need those 800 lumens in an EDC setup. 99,something percent would be run on the low setting anyways. But it would still be soothing to have 800 lumens on tab if the situation - God for it - would call for it in an SD scenario.

Any experience with the Tactician head on a single 16340?


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## 1996alnl2

lumensbadger said:


> Don't know if we have touched on this subject yet, but here it goes:
> 
> I was thinking of yet another useful Lego, since I have an old E1B body floating around.
> 
> Has anyone tried running the Tactian head on a single 16340? My thought was to run the Keeppower protected 16340 in the 4 amps variant. That should cover me on the high currency shutdown side.
> 
> If the Tacticians runs fine in 16650s, it should do the same on 16340s - obviously with a big reduction in runtime. But let's be honest. How often do we really need those 800 lumens in an EDC setup. 99,something percent would be run on the low setting anyways. But it would still be soothing to have 800 lumens on tab if the situation - God for it - would call for it in an SD scenario.
> 
> Any experience with the Tactician head on a single 16340?



I have an old (2009 maybe) Surefire Backup, head has been retired for years. I Use the body with my Malkoff E2XT Extra throw head. It's a small pocket light sabre. Quite comical actually to get that much throw on a single 16340.

Anyhow I thought I'd help you out, I just put my Tactician head on the single cell body and I only got low setting on a fully charged KeepPower 16340. Swapped out batteries for a Fenix brand battery..same thing. Tried it on Nitcore, Acebeam 16340's same result. 
If I use any two 16340's the light is FULL bright and operates as it should.
On a KeepPower 16650 It works fine but at a reduced output with more runtime.
Too bad it didn't work with that single cell, the light was tiny. 
People would of scratched their heads to see 800Lumens came out of that tiny package. I wish I could post an attachment but I'm not aloud. (?)


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## akula88

lumensbadger said:


> Don't know if we have touched on this subject yet, but here it goes:
> 
> I was thinking of yet another useful Lego, since I have an old E1B body floating around.
> 
> <... snip>
> 
> Any experience with the Tactician head on a single 16340?





1996alnl2 said:


> <snip>
> Anyhow I thought I'd help you out, I just put my Tactician head on the single cell body and I only got low setting on a fully charged KeepPower 16340. Swapped out batteries for a Fenix brand battery..same thing. Tried it on Nitcore, Acebeam 16340's same result.
> If I use any two 16340's the light is FULL bright and operates as it should.
> On a KeepPower 16650 It works fine but at a reduced output with more runtime.
> Too bad _it didn't work_ with that single cell, the light was tiny.



It is currently my EDC (E1b body with a shrouded Z68) and the head-based (twisty) 2-mode works. 







The original E2T tactician head-side thread is actually longer compared to the regular E1/E2-series body. Thus, *you need to add a shim* -- I use a solid copper wire -- in order for the head to work properly with a shorter-threaded E1B. 

I also tested it with an EDCL-1T body/EB1 clicky tailcap combo and it also works.

Check it out.


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## lumensbadger

Thank you for your valuable replies, gentlemen.

The copper wire shim method is worth trying.


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## lumensbadger

Have you also tried the EDCL1-T gas pedal switch in the e1b body?

once the Tactician head is fully connected via the shim, it should give us two stages of light.


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## 1996alnl2

Thanks for that great tip Akula88! I would of never figured that out, that's a great setup you have there.
A true wall of light in the palm of your hand, I find my Tactician seems to be getting the most use compared to my other lights lately. Within 75-100ft that MaxVision beam is spectacular, everything lights up.


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## akula88

lumensbadger said:


> Have you also tried the EDCL1-T gas pedal switch in the e1b body?



OT - E1b body has a shorter tail thread compared with the EDCL1. Tailcaps are not interchangeable. EB1 is the 'predecessor' of EDCL1. 





E1b and Tactician bodies have similar tail threads though. Tactician head can lego with EDCL1 body, but with some reduced output (16340).


Surefire have a system of confusing their users with their model names.


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## lumensbadger

I picked up Akula88's idea with the shim for making the Tactician head compatible with shorter threaded e bodies.

While Akula's idea works well and enables high mode on the shorter (normal) treaded e bodies, it renders the Tactician head high mode only, if the outer diameter of the head's threading is chosen.

However, if one makes a wire shim that barely fits around the inner black plastic ring in the Tactcian head (you can see the golden and bend spring wire shim in the attached picture), the normal e1 and e2 bodies can enable low mode (as they would anyways) and - due to the added shim - now also high mode if the head is fastened.

Using an old e1 body (with normal / short threads), I legoed a two stage Mini-Tactican that runs off of a 16340 Lithium-Ion rechargeable. 

Runtime on high: Keeppower 4A 700mAh 16340
25 minutes with 100 - 80%. After that another 35 minutes of a slow and gradual taper from 80 % - 5 lumens. Then on for who knows how long on 5 Lumens. Definitely NO sudden shutdown like regulated higher output lights.

I also replaced the o ring on the bezel end of the e1 body with a 2mm by 18mm (inner diameter) o ring, therewith realizing a proper seal even with the head loosened a bit for low mode.

Here is the shim: 
https://ibb.co/y0Fmjsz


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