# Sunwayman T60CS Review (3 x XM-L U2 | 3 x 18650 / 6 x 16340)



## turboBB (Jun 26, 2012)

*T*here has been a proliferation of 3 x XM-L lights released recently from some of the biggest names in the flashlight industry. Sunwayman had been conspicuously absent from that list but no longer, they have now entered the fray with the release of their T60CS:



The sample I received is from their very first production run but there should be little to no changes from officially released versions (I'll report back in case there are any).


*MFG SPECS
*MSRP: $205 USD
● CREE XM-L U2 LED, with a lifetime of up to 50,000 hours;
● Soft-contact Side Switch:
One Turbo mode, Three modes constant output and hidden Strobe, SOS (below are output and runtime details by using 3*18650 2600mAh batteries):
Turbo Mode: 2100 Lumens (for safety’s sake, after 5 minutes’ turbo mode, the light will go to High mode automatically to avoid over-heat)
Three constant output modes: 1680Lumens (2hrs) – 360Lumens (9hrs) - 20Lumens (60hrs)
Strobe: 2100 Lumens
SOS
● Constant current circuit, constant output
● Effective range of 372.5 meters
● Uses three 18650 or six CR123A (16340) batteries
● Working voltage: 12.6~25.2
● Low-voltage indicator lamp
● Three-hole high quality metal smooth reflector maintains great throw distance and spread with an ideal beam pattern
● Dimensions: mm (length) x mm (head diameter) x mm (tail diameter)
● Weight:（battery excluded）
● Aerospace-grade aluminum alloy, stainless steel retaining ring on the head
● Military Specification Type III- hard anodized body
● Waterproof, in accordance with IPX-8 standard 
● Ultra-clear tempered glass lens resists scratches and impacts
● Accessories: holster, O-ring, lanyard



*PACKAGING / CONTENTS
*The T60CS arrived in the same sized box as the V60C w/a non-finalized sticker affixed:


 

 

Additional accessories included were a holster, lanyard and two spare o-rings:





*CONDENSED VIDEO SUMMARY *
Here is a quick high-level video summary of the T60CS while I work on fleshing out this review:



*DESIGN / FEATURES
*The T60CS can be thought of as a hybrid; it features the Smart Switch and UI from the T40CS but with the V60C's overall form factor. Sunwayman has however embarked on a completely new design theme that really distinguishes itself from their existing line of lights. Starting at the head, there is a removable SS bezel that holds down the double-sided coated AR lens:


 

 

 
It can be used for strike or glass breakage purposes and also allows one to easily see if the light is on when stood bezel down.


It is also easily removable allowing access to the lens, reflector and emitters: 


 

 

 
The lens itself is reasonably thick and while the threads aren't square-cut, the bezel threads on smoothly. Note the little black washer in the first pic (more on that later).

The reflector measures 51.9mm in diam. by 20mm in depth:


 

 


As it's milled as a solid piece, the reflector actually has some heft to it (33.7g / 1.19oz).

The emitters are mounted on a custom PCB held in place by three screws with ample heat sink compound evident. The black washer I pointed out in one of the earlier pics is used to center the reflector but note that there is a ledge on one side and must be reinstalled facing up:


 

 

 
The shot on the right shows the wires leading to the Smart Switch.

This is now the third light* that Sunwayman has endowed with the Smart Switch. Looks like an effort is being made to market it as this one actually has a laser engraving on the ring identifying it whereas the one on the T40CS/T20CS are unadorned.


 
*As of the time of this writing as the C10R and C20C are not yet released.

Unlike the T40CS & T20CS, it is the sole switch on the light and will always draw a very negligble amount of current which I measured to be 2.21mA when the circuit first initiates (receives voltage) and then will drop to 20μA shortly after:


 

 
To put things into perspective, using three 2600 mAh 18650 batteries (and leaving the batteries' self-discharge and leap years out of the pic), it would take 44.5 years to drain them (28.86 Wh / .000074Wh = 390K hours / 16250 days / 44.5 yrs).

Adjacent to the Smart Switch is a low voltage indicator LED that will light up when the voltage drops to xxx volts:
[pic]

The cooling fins help shed heat and are definitely needed as it can get pretty warm (see runtime section for more details):


 

 

 
The machined edge also acts as an anti-roll ring.

The threads are square-cut and there are springs underneath the head and at the end of the tube:


 

 

 

The tube is nearly identical in size to the V60C's and uses the same (square-cut) thread size so they are interchangeable:




Gone is the texturing which is now replaced by grooves. I find they collect dirt and grime easily and are a little difficult to clean out once embedded. There are six machined grooves of which only one features engraving which is the typical Sunwayman logo, company name and model no:


 

 


Absent also are the circular motifs that uniquely identified Sunwayman's lights. Overall it's a more staid and edgier theme. 

The tail end of the light now has a dedicated lanyard attachment machined into it in such a way that it helps prevent interference when tailstanding the light:


 

 


 


I feel it's a great design that obviates the need to fiddle with the lobster claw thus keeping the other hand free when setting down the light. 

The end again features exposed positive/negative connection points for easy docking onto the charging base:


 

 
It is however tapered slightly and protrudes from the base thus it's not as stable as the V60C is when tailstanding.

For those not familiar w/the V60C, what I mean by exposed positive/negative connection points is that the ends are literally a direct conduit for the battery/charging path. Here I am taking a voltage reading directly off the end of the T60CS:





As w/theV60C, there remains a concern for a short in case the negative/positive paths are closed. The likelihood should however be reduced as the positive path is recessed.

*[NEW 7/22: *The charging conduits are made possible due to the redundant pos/neg paths built into the battery carrier that allows it to be inserted either way without regard for polarity (the batteries themselves still need to be inserted into the carrier in the correct polarity though). Here is the exterior "face" of the battery carrier and it looks identical on the other end. The center brass contact point is the positive path with a center "leg" (lying underneath this face that isn't visible in this pic) that connects to the other end of the carrier and the outter aluminum rim carries the negative path:



The three screws hold three "legs" that in addition to providing structural support for the batterier carrier, also doubles as the "negative" paths and routes it through to the other face thus creating the redudancy.

The three batteries are wired in series formation; starting with the #3 negative spring (top-left pic), it is directly connected to the PCB and the three outter legs that repeats the negative path to both exterior faces of the carrier. When a battery is inserted, the positive tip then makes contact w/the #3 positive nodule on the opposite-end which is directly connected to the #2 negative spring (top-right pic):









 

 
The second battery completes the path between the #2 neg. spring (top-right pic) and the #2 pos. nodule (bottom-left pic). Inserting the final battery completes the path between the #1 neg. spring and the #1 pos. nodule (bottom-right pic). This nodule is directly connected to the center leg and carries the positive path. I suspect the "fuse" is built into the connection between the #1 nodule and PCB in the bottom-right pic.

EDIT: I was correct re: the positon of the fuse, here is a shot of it:




Here is a close-up of the center leg that carries the positive path from the #1 pos. nodule on the other end:




The battery carrier has recieved some subtle cosmetics changes but remains the same functionality-wise:


 

 
The old carrier is on the left and new carrier on the right in both pics.

The T60CS can run off of 6 x CR123's or 6 x RCR123's in which case while the Tenergy LiFePO4's (@ 33.6mm ea.) fit fine, the XTAR 16340's (@35.6mm ea) are overly long and wouldn't fit:


 

 


However it runs best off of 3 x 18650's...

In which case I didn't encounter any issues with either my shortest or longest cells:


 

 
L: AW IMR 1600 @ 65.2mm | R: XTAR 18700 @ 69.2mm

The XTAR 18700's were however a very tight fit. While the pos. nodule's allow the use of flat top cells, it may catch on the shrink wrap during removal so care must be taken to first depress the cells towards the spring before removing it: 




 

*]* 

The T60CS is completely compatible w/the optional AP06 charger (model shown below is an older version):




Given the circuity is solely in the charger and not unique to the light, I will not be covering it in-depth since I have already done so in my V60C review.


*SIZE & HANDLING*



 L to R: RL3100 | NITECORE TM11 | Sunwayman T60CS | Niteye EYE30 | APEX 5T6 | Elektro Lumens Big Bruiser | ThruNite TN30 | XTAR S1

The T60CS is reasonably compact and just slightly longer than the TM11 with a narrower tube given it's 3 cells vs. 4. Here's are shots of it in my medium-sized hand:


 

 


*[NEW 7/22: **FIT & FINISH
*The T60CS features a solid build with excellent anodizing. The head is just ever so slightly mismatched (lighter shade) from the body under certain lighting conditions:




The laser engraving is nice and sharp without any blotchiness:




There isn't a tiny gap between the smart switch ring and the body itself like I had noted in my T40CS review:



The switch provides good tactile feedback when depressed and the light just feels very solid and well put together.

One thing I did notice was that with the battery carrier installed, there is a tiny gap between the head and tube:


 

 
L: With battery carrier | R: Sans battery carrier

Also the carrier is a loose fit in the tube so it is possible to induce rattles by shaking the light with a motion that is perpendicular to the tube lengthwise:



Like the V60C, the light will temporarily disengage if set down hard enough on the base since the spring will compress far enough to lose contact w/the battery carrier. As explained in the V60C review, this was intentional to aid shock absorption to prevent battery damage. 

Beyond this, there was nothing else I could find to fault the light with.


*UI
*There are a total of four output levels (Turbo, High, Med, Low) and two hidden modes (fixed rate strobe and SOS) that are accessed with the Smart Switch as follows:




Entering lock out mode was a little tricky at first but once I got the hang of it, I was able to easily engage/disengage it.


*BEAMSHOTS
Indoors (5m)*
Turbo






 

 



High


 

 



Med


 

 



Low


 

 


For details of the above indoor shots and comparo vs. many other lights, please check Epic Indoor Shots Trilogy

*Whitewall Hunting
*Exposure settings in sequential reading-order from top left: 1/25, 1/100, 1/800, 1/1600 @ f2.9 on AWB (light is ~.4m to wall / camera ~.59m):












*RUNTIME
*The relevant battery stats are provided above each runtime graph along with: 
- Voltage of the battery at the start and end of the test
- Current draw as taken right before the test
- Actual runtime using ANSI FL1 (first in HR and then in M so for the AW2600 on High, read this as 1.7hrs _OR_ 102min)
- NEW (as of May 2012): Lumens measured on PVC LMD @ 30 seconds
- Also for High, captured the temperature: ambient, the head at start and the max it reached (fan was used for all bats)




Just wrapped up Runtime on H w/AW's and confirmed that there is a step down of ~400lms after 5 min, after which the T60CS runs in near perfect regulation for around 30 mins before beginning a steady decline. Despite this, since it will increase current draw to maintain regulation there is a corresponding uptick in temp that almost hit 120F w/a fan during testing so one needs to be mindful of that.

*[NEW 7/5:* Conducted a runtime test w/the RL3100's but invoked Turbo mode again after step down and again about 20 minutes after that and based on the results I would say the step down is purely timer based and not temperature controlled. With that in mind, it's worth noting that Turbo mode is purely just 5 minutes and then it steps down into High mode for the rest of the run. As such, the above runtime graph should really be interpreted as a hybrid runtime of Turbo/High.*]*


*INITIAL CONCLUSION*
The T60CS upholds Sunwayman's tradition of releasing solidly crafted lights. The Smart Switch allows easy access to level changes as well as instant strobe if required. The incorporation of an electronic lock-out feature is a nice new feature thus obviating the need to unscrew the tube from the head for physical lockout. The T60CS offers a nice balance between flood and throw with a negligible amount of beam artificats produced from its "triflector" with the second cleanest beam profile of the four tri-XM-L lights using this type of reflector (tops goes to TM11 owing to its very shallow reflector and super floody beam profile). The artifacts are really only noticeable indoors and likely will blend into the scenery when used outdoors. I will do a deeper dive into the beam profiles in an upcoming multi-emitter shootout thread but for now, here are my thoughts:

*turboBB-licious*

Smart Switch allows easy access to output levels or instant strobe
electronic lock out function
great balance between flood and throw in a reasonably compact multi-emitter/cell form factor
excellent build quality and finish
ease of drop-in charging (with AP06 charger)

*turboBB-cautious*

potential for shorts through the open battery paths in the tail
carrier must be replaced when built-in fuse is blown

*turboBB-wishes*

tailcap cover with USB charging port to allow charging of other devices
revision to carrier and charging system to allow balance charging



*T60CS GALLERY*




=======
Disclosure: T60CS provided by Sunwayman for review.


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jun 26, 2012)

Are there lots of artifacts in the beam? Thanks!


----------



## kj2 (Jun 26, 2012)

Thanks


----------



## MT7 (Jun 26, 2012)

turboBB said:


> *T*here has been a proliferation of 3 x XM-L lights released recently from some of the biggest names in the flashlight industry. Sunwayman had been conspicuously absent from that list but no longer, they have now entered the fray with the release of their T60CS:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




When will it come out?
is it going to be a thrower light? or a flood light? 
what is going to be the beam distance?
what will be the price?
thanks advance..


----------



## candle lamp (Jun 26, 2012)

Thanks for your posting the excellent review. turboBB! :thumbsup: Can't wait the remaining part of the review.

I think the beam profile seem to be a lot like TM11. How about that?


----------



## rufus001 (Jun 26, 2012)

I have a TM11 and a TN30 yet I want this too. I am so horribly addicted.


----------



## turboBB (Jun 26, 2012)

vinhnguyen54 said:


> Are there lots of artifacts in the beam? Thanks!



Not that I can see based on initial testing, I should have whitewall shots up shortly.




MT7 said:


> When will it come out?
> is it going to be a thrower light? or a flood light?
> what is going to be the beam distance?
> what will be the price?
> thanks advance..



I'm waiting to hear back on release date and price but the T60CS is more of a floody profile with some decent throw. Sunwayman has listed beam distance at 372.5m which translates to around 34.7K lux. I'll update review with my measurements later.




candle lamp said:


> Thanks for your posting the excellent review. turboBB! :thumbsup: Can't wait the remaining part of the review.
> 
> I think the beam profile seem to be a lot like TM11. How about that?



Thx KH! The beam profile is indeed very similar to the TM11 but I can just barely make out a slight transition in the corona of the spill whereas I don't notice that w/the TM11. Hopefully the whitewall shots will be useful for discerning this but if you click on the indoor shots, you should be able to see what I'm talking about.



rufus001 said:


> I am so horribly addicted.


At least you're in good company here.


----------



## Bigmac_79 (Jun 26, 2012)

It's about time Sunwayman did a 3xXM-L! I'm looking forward to the rest of your review :thumbsup:


----------



## don.gwapo (Jun 26, 2012)

TM11 reflector is more shallow and wider so its more floody and less throw than the T60CS which has deeper and narrower reflector.


----------



## badtziscool (Jun 27, 2012)

I've been looking at getting a multi xm-l light for a while now and I love this form factor. The size, shape, UI, all where I'd like them to be. How does the beamshot compare to the eye30?

And thanks for the awesome reviews. Very informative.


----------



## turboBB (Jun 27, 2012)

Thx guys!

@ don.gwapo - Right you are. Here are some direct comparo pics (all shots @ f/2.0 so a shallow depth-of-field).

In this shot, the focus is on the tip of the bezels in the center and as you can see, with the LED's in the T60CS situated further back in the deeper reflector, they are slightly out of focus:




In this shot, the focus is on the center tip where the three "cut-out's" for the reflector meet and the edge of the camera lens on the edge of each bezel (the diam of each head are identical @ 60mm):


 



And finally a head on shot (focused on the top-right LED) w/camera centered and directly on top of each light's lens:


 



@badtziscool - you can compare indoor beamshots of the T60CS vs. many other lights via the links in my sig.

@MT7 - Price should be $205 USD and it should start shipping to dealers very soon with one taking pre-orders (check CPFMP).


----------



## GordoJones88 (Jun 27, 2012)

Thanks a whole bunch for this pic.
Ima really liking the SWM reflector.



turboBB said:


>


----------



## Kilted (Jun 27, 2012)

FYI - HidCanada are taking pre-orders for the T60CS. It is on their Sunwayman page $205CA.

=D~~ Kilted


----------



## rufus001 (Jun 28, 2012)

Available for pre-order in Australia now too. Desperately trying to resist.


----------



## turboBB (Jun 28, 2012)

Runtime on "Turbo" w/AW 2600's added. I've confirmed the stepdown but Turbo can be reactivated by cycling through the levels again or turning the T60CS on/off.


----------



## badtziscool (Jun 28, 2012)

turboBB said:


> Runtime on "Turbo" w/AW 2600's added. I've confirmed the stepdown but Turbo can be reactivated by cycling through the levels again or turning the T60CS on/off.



So there's an actual timer that has to count down before turbo can be reactivated? Or perhaps the temperature has to go below a certain threshold?


----------



## turboBB (Jun 29, 2012)

I believe the step down is solely timer based (w/no delay required before reactivation) but let me run some additional testing.


----------



## badtziscool (Jun 29, 2012)

I'm sorry. I misread your statement. I thought you said that it canNOT be reactivated with a cycle or by turning off/on. My apologies.


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 2, 2012)

0.25 lux @ 372.5m goes 34.6K lux @ 1m?
Loosen a bit = lockout?
thanks


----------



## turboBB (Jul 2, 2012)

The lux was calculated (to 1m) based on SWM's claim of 372.5 beam distance. It's uncertain what was the original distance used to take measurements. I'll be verifying that when I flesh out this review soon.


----------



## kj2 (Jul 3, 2012)

On some photos of the T60CS, on the Sunwayman web-page, you can see that there are Sunwayman 18650 batteries. Does anyone know more about those batteries?


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 3, 2012)

TurboBB,

Can you please compare and contrast the beam of the TN30 VS the T60CS please. I have a TN30 and I love the output but I hated the artifacts in the beam. I think it has the most artifacts of any triple XML light I have ever seen. Thank You for your comment.


----------



## turboBB (Jul 4, 2012)

@kj2 - sorry, dunno anything about them but I'll try finding out.

@v54 - hope to have the bulk of this review up later tonight along with whitewall shots and will definitely compare the beams for you.

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## RTJ (Jul 5, 2012)

@kj2 these are SWM own brand batteries. More details will be available later.


----------



## kj2 (Jul 5, 2012)

RTJ said:


> @kj2 these are SWM own brand batteries. More details will be available later.



How you know?


----------



## RTJ (Jul 5, 2012)

PM sent!


----------



## turboBB (Jul 6, 2012)

Bulk of review now up. 

@V54 - as per my initial conclusion: "The T60CS offers a nice balance between flood and throw with a negligible amount of beam artificats produced from its "triflector" with the second cleanest beam profile of the four tri-XM-L lights using this type of reflector (tops goes to TM11 owing to its very shallow reflectors and super floody beam profile). The artifacts are really only noticeable indoors and likely will blend into the scenery when used outdoors. I will do a deeper dive into the beam profiles in an upcoming multi-emitter shootout thread"

I'm noticing a pattern and direct correlation w/the depth of the reflector and the artifacts produced (deeper = more artifacts).

I have the whitewall shots in OP (likewise for the TN30 in its review). I haven't had time to write a review on the TM11 (v1.12) so here are the whitewall shots for comparo purposes:









 
Also, you can hit up the links in my sig to compare indoor shots at 5m.

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## vinhnguyen54 (Jul 6, 2012)

Oh noooo, look like I have to buy the T60CS now....Thanks Tim!


----------



## turboBB (Jul 7, 2012)

@v54 - do post your impressions if you decide to get it =)

@kj2 - The Sunwayman 18650 batteries should be available soon. They are protected and 2600mAh. Should be around $13 USD.


----------



## kj2 (Jul 8, 2012)

turboBB said:


> @kj2 - The Sunwayman 18650 batteries should be available soon. They are protected and 2600mAh. Should be around $13 USD.


Thanks  -Still wonder why manufactures don't use the new 2900/3100mAh batteries?? I know some protected 3100mAh are to big (long) to put in most lights. Can be a reason..


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 9, 2012)

Im always worried when i bring such light to sea water
i.e. exposed electrode + conductive liquid
I hope that they would provide some solution to this like having a cap sealing the tail


----------



## rufus001 (Jul 14, 2012)

Just compared this to my TM11 and it definitely beats it for lumens both on Turbo and Hi. The new lightweight champ!


----------



## turboBB (Jul 23, 2012)

Battery carrier details and Fit & Finish section added (search 7/22).


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 23, 2012)

May i know the beam angle?
Im interested in this light whether its uber-floody or normal-floody
About to buy it
TYVM


----------



## turboBB (Jul 23, 2012)

Given the relatively shallow reflector, it's more of a flooder than thrower. It slots between the TM11 and TN30 in terms of flood/throw combo.

If you click on Pt. 2 of my indoor shots in my sig, you can compare beam profile vs. T40CS since you have that one (but there are many other lights you can compare to as well).

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 23, 2012)

Ty for the help


----------



## carl (Jul 23, 2012)

to turboBB - This is a great review! Good thing they went with the series battery config. for greater efficiency. A clean solid light! Thanks for all your work you put into it for the rest of us to enjoy! 



rufus001 said:


> Just compared this to my TM11 and it definitely beats it for lumens both on Turbo and Hi. The new lightweight champ!



to rufus: Just a few questions.

1) What about throw? Does it noticeably out throw the TM11 ? 
2) How about tailstanding - does it wobble a lot? 
thanks


----------



## turboBB (Jul 23, 2012)

@jh333233 - I forgot to mention, I have outdoor shots of TM11, TN30 and T40CS here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...Camping-Report-(24-XM-L-lights-beamshots-vids)

As mentioned, the T60CS is in between the TM11 and TN30 for both flood and throw.

@carl - Thx! and until rufus replies, you can also check the link above for a rough idea of how the T60CS throw and beam profile will be like. It will out-throw the TM11 by a little. As for the tailstanding, as mentioned since the new end cap is slightly tapered, it does tend to wobble if not set down perfectly flat. It's definitely not as stable as the V60CS which has a perfectly flat base and only marginally worse than the TM11 which also has a tapered end.

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## rufus001 (Jul 23, 2012)

carl said:


> to rufus: Just a few questions.
> 
> 1) What about throw? Does it noticeably out throw the TM11 ?
> 2) How about tailstanding - does it wobble a lot?
> thanks



No competition. Even if you ignore the T60CS turbo and compare it's high setting to the TM11's turbo I get at least 25% more lux. With fully charged batteries and on Turbo the difference would be even greater.

It doesn't wobble at all. It does sit on the smaller diameter charging port though and therefore is more susceptible to bumps than the TM11 though.

I hate to say it as the TM11 was my first proper "flooder" but the T60CS, in my opinion, is clearly the better torch.


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 24, 2012)

One way to stop the tail charger
stuff something inside the tube to insulate it
since the battery carrier only need 1 side to work


----------



## turboBB (Jul 25, 2012)

Yup or you could use a piece of electrical tape over one of the positive contacts. However, you'll need to then consistenly insert that end towards the tailcap and reverse it when charging.

On turbo I just measured the T60CS' lux @ 1m to be 27.3K vs. 22.1K for the TM11.


----------



## carl (Jul 26, 2012)

rufus001 said:


> No competition. Even if you ignore the T60CS turbo and compare it's high setting to the TM11's turbo I get at least 25% more lux. With fully charged batteries and on Turbo the difference would be even greater.
> 
> It doesn't wobble at all. It does sit on the smaller diameter charging port though and therefore is more susceptible to bumps than the TM11 though.
> 
> I hate to say it as the TM11 was my first proper "flooder" but the T60CS, in my opinion, is clearly the better torch.



Thanks rufus! More good news for the T60CS! I do wonder though why they didn't make it flat. But I guess its no big deal.

BTW, I wonder if the tail will short out in the rain.


----------



## carl (Jul 26, 2012)

turboBB - Awesome outdoor shots for us to compare all the lights! Thanks again for helping the rest of us by taking the guesswork out of trying to compare all the lights!


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 27, 2012)

K. Seriously the fuse is god D easy to get blown
Mine just failed during camping with no obvious reason, but by investigating afterward, ive found out the built-in fuse was blown, maybe some metal in my backpack swiped on the tail.
Whatever, ive managed to DIY a bypass to restore the function since the fuse wasnt quite "well-hidden"
between the positive terminal 1 and central rod, you can see it obviously on the board.
Gotta share the photo *if i suceed*


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 27, 2012)

Tutor for blown-fuse re-activation:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...lown-fuse-of-SWM-lights&p=3992501#post3992501


----------



## turboBB (Jul 27, 2012)

Thx for posting that! I wonder if there's enough room for a mini-automotive fuse (w/some plastic shaved off) to be soldered in between... Gotta look into this now.


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 27, 2012)

turboBB said:


> Thx for posting that! I wonder if there's enough room for a mini-automotive fuse (w/some platic shaved off) to be soldered in between... Gotta look into this now.



My cam couldnt micro well but it was a black thing with Y written on it
That thing looked like resistor and capacitor, a tiny rectangle box

BTW: i believe doing so voids the warranty
Since mine was bought on a 25% off discount and i was too excited that i forgot to take my receipt, besides i dont wanna mess with the service dept. Im sure that the service will never be Surefire-grade so ive done it myself

I will not take the responsibility for any unfortunate incidents


----------



## carl (Jul 27, 2012)

TurboBB - once again thanks for the review here and the youtube video - all great work! 

Question: Sunwayman claims a 20 lumen low. Do you think this is accurate or is it higher?

Also, the battery tube doesn't screw into the head as far with the battery carrier in place (when compared with the battery carrier out of the battery tube). Is this ok? thanks.


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 27, 2012)

carl said:


> TurboBB - once again thanks for the review here and the youtube video - all great work!
> 
> Question: Sunwayman claims a 20 lumen low. Do you think this is accurate or is it higher?
> 
> *Also, the battery tube doesn't screw into the head as far with the battery carrier in place (when compared with the battery carrier out of the battery tube). Is this ok? thanks*.



This is normal.


----------



## turboBB (Jul 27, 2012)

carl, in general, Sunwayman has been conservative re: their output claims. In the case of the T60CS I've measured on my PVC LMD a bit higher on all levels (vs. claims):

*Turbo*
*High*
*Med*
*Low*
*SWM*
2100
1680
360
20
*PVC LMD*
2500
2100
485
55


Sunwayman utilizes ANSI FL1 which dictates that the average ouput of a minimum sample of three lights is to be used. My measurements are based solely on the single sample I've received for testing and done on my home made PVC LMD setup which has been vetted through at PF18 and with many various other lights. However, my numbers shouldn't be construed as 100% accurate; rather I post them for relative comparitive purposes amongst all the lights I've reviewed/tested.

As for the battery carrier fit, as jh333233 mentioned, this is normal and I've raised this in my Fit & Finish section. I've noticed this with the V60C as well. Sunwayman had informed me that they'll tighten this up on future builds. One thing you might want to check though is to ensure that all the screws on the carrier are reasonably tight. I noticed that one of the screws was a bit loose and contributing to the gap.

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## indenial (Jul 27, 2012)

turboBB said:


> Yup or you could use a piece of electrical tape over one of the positive contacts. However, you'll need to then consistenly insert that end towards the tailcap and reverse it when charging.
> 
> On turbo I just measured the T60CS' lux @ 1m to be 27.3K vs. 22.1K for the TM11.



Just to clarify, would taking this measure prevent blowing the carrier fuse? Thanks!


----------



## carl (Jul 28, 2012)

turboBB and jh - thanks for your input. As far as the low 55 lumens, I was asking because low would be for my midnite-bathroom-run. I prefer 20 lumens but I guess better that they err on the side of low numbers rather than too high and overstated.


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 28, 2012)

indenial said:


> Just to clarify, would taking this measure prevent blowing the carrier fuse? Thanks!


I guess yes since the resistance of the jury-rigged bridge should be much lower than the fuse
But it also increases the risk of shorting at the same time to caution must be taken too in order to protect the user.
IMO i prefer working on the fuse directly than soldering a wire on the button since it would be less likely to damage the home-made bridge


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 28, 2012)

carl said:


> turboBB and jh - thanks for your input. As far as the low 55 lumens, I was asking because low would be for my midnite-bathroom-run. I prefer 20 lumens but I guess better that they err on the side of low numbers rather than too high and overstated.



Disclaimer: I liked this light
The low mode is easy on eye even with fully adapted vision so it wont cause many discomfort, based on the low lux instead of high lumen due to the epic flood profile
But a lower-low would be helpful for battery conservation despite the low mode lasts 60hr


----------



## CMAG (Jul 28, 2012)

+1 I like this light


----------



## turboBB (Jul 28, 2012)

@carl - unlike jh333233, I find the lowest mode slightly bright for my _fully*_ dark adapted eyes (after I've been asleep for 2-3 hrs and then wake up). Again, it could be that I have an overachieving sample, in which case, that would be undersirable for the lowest mode but just providing another POV for your consideration. However, as he mentioned, given the very floody profile, there is no intense hotspot thus it should be easier on the eyes even if slightly bright.


----------



## turboBB (Jul 28, 2012)

@indy - I wouldn't say it would totally eliminate the risk of shorts since the electrical tape can always be pierced but it greatly reduces the likelihood of it happening. I'm going to take apart the carrier and run some additional experiments later and will post back the results.

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## carl (Jul 28, 2012)

turboBB and jh - once again, thank you very much for your input. 

Its the best looking 3x18650 for sure. Love that side switch - right in the head! And sure, its longer than the TM11 but that's because it has a recharger feature in the tail and has a battery carrier for running the batteries in series - both great features and worth the extra overall length. And much smoother beam than the TN30.


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 29, 2012)

Or you can even insulate the central rod @ 1 side i guess, but i dont know whether it would cause "breaking of circuit" or not


----------



## turboBB (Jul 29, 2012)

OK, so I finally got around to disassembling the carrier and here's a pic of that fuse (resistor?) for those curious:





I suppose if one were able to source that part and has very steady hands and a magnifier, it can be replaced.


----------



## jh333233 (Jul 30, 2012)

turboBB said:


> OK, so I finally got around to disassembling the carrier and here's a pic of that fuse (resistor?) for those curious:
> I suppose if one were able to source that part and has very steady hands and a magnifier, it can be replaced.



Forget the R1 (which was abbr. for resistor 1)
Short the two metal surface of the Y-thing and the fuse is disabled


----------



## veedo (Aug 7, 2012)

just picked up this light, and it sure is crazy bright. construction is very solid, but i have a few knit picky things about it. the caution lettering on the head is printed crooked, along with the certified on the bottom of the tube. the smart switch is also not centered so the "smart switch" logo is tilted a bit sideways. anyone else notice this? other than that, the light seems pretty awesome, and much smaller than i imagined.


----------



## carl (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't have one (yet) but I haven't noticed that type of 'blemish' on any of the pictures. Is it very noticeable or just a bit?

Can you post some close-up pics....and maybe possibly some outdoor shots too?


----------



## veedo (Aug 7, 2012)

well, the light stopped working so its going to be rma'd. now i have to wait another week or more! ill try and snap some pics before i box it all back up. i think its the fuse in the battery carrier, but im not messing around with a light this expensive and a day old. besides, maybe the next one will come with straight letters. im not much of a photographer, but believe me, this thing puts out a wall of light that lights up the whole yard. it makes my sc600 look like a candle. if anything comes close in front of the beam its blinding. this is my first multi emitter light.


----------



## turboBB (Aug 8, 2012)

Shucks veedo, sorry to hear about that. Hopefully your dealer/Sunwayman will take care of you. Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

@carl - just haven't found a great location for outdoor shots and living in the 'burbs, it's really hard to be flashing lights around without come paranoid person calling the cops. I hope to have some outdoor shots of the more recent lights I've reviewed soon but worst case is I'll definitely have them after my upcoming camping trip in a few weeks.


----------



## carl (Aug 8, 2012)

turboBB - no worries if you can't get some outdoor shots - you've done enough already with lots of great info from your review! Don't want to spook the neighbors anyway!


----------



## jh333233 (Aug 10, 2012)

Re #66
This one is a pocket Behemoth for sure
Comparable with low-end HIDs
Better not to make the neighborhood scream about ALIEN ATTACK!!!


----------



## moldyoldy (Aug 12, 2012)

perhaps a minor quibble which is really not the fault of the T60: My first full discharge cycle with relatively new 3x 2900mah AW 18650 cells resulted in one cell tripping it's protection circuit, yet the low-battery light on the T60 did not blink even once. After the trip, the other 2 18650 cells were measured around 3.5 volts. My sole "warning" was that near the end of the runtime, the T60 really had only 3 output levels. The highest level certainly was not 2100 lumens. Those cells had less than a dozen cycles on them.

The matter of a protected cell tripping the light off while in use is absolutly the most irritating aspect to Lithium-Ion cells. They are needed for protection against reverse voltages, but suddenly being in the dark is not nice!


----------



## turboBB (Aug 12, 2012)

It's interesting you mentioned this as I have never noticed the low voltage warning kick-in on three different runs (that I was monitoring) on Turbo (and no cells had tripped in these runs). I stopped testing but will try another run with an intravalometer next time to see if it comes on.


----------



## indenial (Aug 12, 2012)

*moldyoldy*: Were you able to reset the protection circuit?


----------



## Chowderhead72 (Aug 13, 2012)

Did you ever figure out what voltage the red (low voltage) light comes on? Once the light comes on does the light shut off. Trying to establish charging parameters.


----------



## moldyoldy (Aug 13, 2012)

indenial said:


> *moldyoldy*: Were you able to reset the protection circuit?



Yes, the 4Sevens charger reset the protection circuit w/o a problem. The cell voltage before resetting was 0.0volts where it stayed until reset, which is typical of AW protection circuits. 

I have had a couple Li-Ion chargers that would not attempt to charge a cell below a certain voltage and therefore could not be used to reset a tripped protection circuit. I disposed of those very quickly. No problems with several copies of the 4Sevens charger.


----------



## moldyoldy (Aug 13, 2012)

Why did I purchase the T60CS? I felt that my TK35 and V60 had satisfied my needs in the 800-900 lumen range. I had no experience with the high-end lights in the $200+ range and 2000+ lumens. The TM11, TN30, the T60CS, and the yet-to-be-released Zebralight 6330 was on my short list. The T60CS was sufficiently smaller to outweigh the higher lumens from the TN30. The TM11 beam was a bit too broad as far as I could determine from CPF beamshots. The 6330 was the closest to my wants with individual monitoring of the 18650 cells, but a release date was nebulous. I am satisfied with my T60CS, at least so far.


----------



## Chowderhead72 (Aug 18, 2012)

Great review! Had to buy one. This light is awesome as well as the perfect size. 

Now if SWM would make a t60csT with a deeper reflector so i could have a thrower as well. 

The v60 charger is a lot nicer than the pictures would suggest, all aluminum top and comes with both power supplies 120v AND 12v, nice touch. I am so impressed with this light I had to buy the t20cs to justify my pila and pile of aw 3100's. 

Question: did you ever investigate as to what point the red light comes on?


----------



## turboBB (Aug 19, 2012)

Thx! Unfortunately not yet but I'll definitely post results when I get around to it.

As for the charger, the one in my pics was a very early sample and doesn't have the aluminum top like on the newer one. Glad to hear you're enjoying the light.

Cheers,
Tim


----------



## hoo7h1 (Aug 29, 2012)

Great review thanks.
btw how many modes are out there ?
And what is the current in each mode ?

And btw can I remove the smart switch and just make it ON/OFF switch ?


----------



## jh333233 (Aug 29, 2012)

hoo7h1 said:


> Great review thanks.
> btw how many modes are out there ?
> And what is the current in each mode ?
> 
> And btw can I remove the smart switch and just make it ON/OFF switch ?



1. 4 mode, but i would say its 3-distinctive mode(H-M-L) since turbo and high are too similar in output
2. You can't, it was programmed that a fast click is on/off and hold is mode-hopping, which means you cant use it like T20CS or T40CS where theres an extra tail switch for mecha-on/off


----------



## hoo7h1 (Aug 29, 2012)

jh333233 said:


> 1. 4 mode, but i would say its 3-distinctive mode(H-M-L) since turbo and high are too similar in output
> 2. You can't, it was programmed that a fast click is on/off and hold is mode-hopping, which means you cant use it like T20CS or T40CS where theres an extra tail switch for mecha-on/off



What if I changed the circuit ?


----------



## turboBB (Aug 29, 2012)

The current I measured for each mode using RL3100's are (in mA):

Turbo: 2040
High: 1690
Med: 314
Low: 63

If you change the circuit then it'll function however the circuit was designed to operate so not really sure what you're asking. Can you clarify?

Thx,
Tim


----------



## lightliker (Jan 1, 2013)

Very nice review turboBB!!
After a long period of finding out what the best compagnion for my Olight SR90 was, this light touches the sweet spot of compactness, output, reasonable low light Level, running on 18650's, using XM-L leds a side switch and affordable price.
Two wishes left: a better cell-voltage monitoring (happily I use a hobbycharger for balanced charging so 18650's going POOF will not occur soon) and neutral white instead of cool white but hey, the perfect light aint out there , the one light that comes really close is the Lupine Betty but this light doesn't run on exchangable 18650's or cr123's in emergency cases.
have you already tested at what voltage the low light LED starts to warn you for drained batteries?
Before purchasing this light, I would be glad to know.


----------



## moldyoldy (Jan 10, 2013)

update on the low battery indicator of my copy of the T60: I finally noticed the low battery indicator in operation - A very slow blink. I do not know how long it had been blinking at me. AW 2900mah cells inside. I grabbed my DMM and measured the voltage at the charging end with the light on max: 9.08v. I then removed the cells and quickly checked the OC voltage. All cells were slightly above 3.0x volts. Eh, I wish that the low voltage indicator turned on before the cells were essentially discharged anyway much less enough before the PCB protection in the cell cut off the current anyway.

However, in surveying the current crop of 3x XML-xxxx lights, such as the TM11, TM15, SC6330, TK75, TN11, etc, I am still happy with my T60. The T60 lumen output is certainly above the spec, as confirmed by the review. To my viewpoint, the competing lights do not offer any signficant increase in lumens. The beam from the T60 is relatively clean of artifacts as well as a good compromise between spill and spot. The T60 is quite compact which I like very much. about the only light that is clearly smaller is the just released Zebra 6330, but the jury is still taking in the sketchy evidence on that unit.


----------



## lightliker (Jan 20, 2013)

@moldyoldy: the same motivations about size, spill and output made me decide to order the T60CS. Thanks for measuring the warning led voltage!
I just checked hongkong post and the light hasalready entered my country! 
Maybe this week it will be delivered at my door.


----------



## lightliker (Mar 30, 2013)

The light arrived and is now my most favorite one, next to my SR90 (wich cannot be taken with me as easy as this little powerful one).
For edc I have a S20 olight baton wich suits me fine!
Have you ever tried this?


----------



## jh333233 (Apr 1, 2013)

lightliker said:


> The light arrived and is now my most favorite one, next to my SR90 (wich cannot be taken with me as easy as this little powerful one).
> For edc I have a S20 olight baton wich suits me fine!
> Have you ever tried this?



Wont the tail get shorted?


----------

