# Is Sanyo Eneloop a Good AA?



## Runangun (Oct 24, 2008)

Hello,
I am new to the forum but have been reading alot of threads on the site.Because of the information on this site I just purchased 2 Fenix flashlights.(LD20,and PD30) I would like some help in determining a good quality AA rechargable battery. I am going to buy the AW RCR123A for the PD30 So any help with the AA would be great.
Thanks in advanced for your advice.
Tony


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## Kremer (Oct 24, 2008)

You will get all positive replys and cannot go wrong with the Eneloop. I think I have about 50.

Your question should really be about where to find the best deal on them


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## Black Rose (Oct 24, 2008)

Yes.

The Eneloops are currently the best of breed in the LSD NiMh category.


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## Runangun (Oct 24, 2008)

Hey Guys,
Is there a website you would recommed to buy the Sanyo Eneloop and the AW RCR123A. I aready looked at 4Sevens.


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## Black Rose (Oct 24, 2008)

Lighthound also sells AW RCR123s.

Thomas Distributing sells the Eneloops at a decent price.
You can also get them at Costco.

I don't think there are any "one stop shopping" sites that sell Eneloops and AWs cells.


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## Vincent (Dec 14, 2008)

I use these on my Graphing calculator as well as my radios and they last alot longer then my other standard nihm rechargeables.


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## Egsise (Dec 14, 2008)

Black Rose said:


> Yes.
> 
> The Eneloops are currently the best of breed in the LSD NiMh category.



Really?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1023&thread=26078814
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843&postcount=1


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## Mr Happy (Dec 14, 2008)

Egsise said:


> Really?
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1023&thread=26078814
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843&postcount=1


Yes...really.

Here are some criteria that can be used to judge NiMH cells:


Self-discharge -- how long will they hold a charge after charging?
Consistency -- what is the variation between samples?
Quality control -- how likely are you to find a dud?
Durability -- how many charge cycles can you get without loss of performance?
Robustness -- how much deliberate or accidental abuse can they take without failure?
Power delivery -- how well does the voltage and capacity hold up under heavy loads?
Capacity -- how much energy can they store?
When judged under all these categories taken together, Eneloops are possibly the best NiMH cells on the market today, bar none.


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## jabe1 (Dec 14, 2008)

If you have an HH Gregg store nearby, they have them. A 4ack of AA is $8.61 with tax (7.75%).


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## Egsise (Dec 14, 2008)

Mr Happy said:


> Yes...really.
> 
> Here are some criteria that can be used to judge NiMH cells:
> 
> ...



You did notice those links did you?


Egsise said:


> Really?
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1023&thread=26078814
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/920843&postcount=1



Eneloops are not on top of those charts, so why eneloops are better than GP ReCyko for example? 
You do have some comparison charts etc, not just a gut feeling, right?


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## odessit (Dec 14, 2008)

You may add to the list
8. Availability
9. Price

Mr. Happy's list is good, but the battery of choice depends on the weight factor you assign to each category.

Assuming each category is equal - Eneloop will probably win.
If you place more weight on "Capacity" and "Power Delivery" and less in other categories - a different battery may win.

Eneloop just happens to be the most tested & readily available battery on this board - thus all the raving about it. Really, the only limitation of Eneloop is capacity.

Here is the thread with performance data
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/149804


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## Mr Happy (Dec 14, 2008)

Egsise said:


> You did notice those links did you?
> Eneloops are not on top of those charts, so why eneloops are better than GP ReCyko for example?
> You do have some comparison charts etc, not just a gut feeling, right?


Many of us have tested both Eneloops and other cells. When it comes to long term testing, Eneloops always seem to rise to the top. Charts like the ones you linked to don't always tell the whole story.



odessit said:


> You may add to the list
> 8. Availability
> 9. Price
> 
> ...


I don't know that Eneloops are the most readily available. Often they are hard to find in shops and have to be ordered on line, but I think finding them is worth it.


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## Egsise (Dec 14, 2008)

GP ReCyko vs. Sanyo Eneloop comparison based on links&charts in this thread.


Self-discharge =ReCyko
Consistency =Eneloop (not enough Recyko data available)
Quality control =Eneloop (not enough Recyko data available)
Durability =Eneloop (not enough Recyko data available)
Robustness =Eneloop (not enough Recyko data available)
Power delivery =ReCyko
Capacity =Recyko
Availability =post&packing is like 2$ so who cares?
Price =if I want the best, do I care?

So the winner is Eneloop.
Riiight.


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## Egsise (Dec 14, 2008)

Egsise said:


> GP ReCyko vs. Sanyo Eneloop comparison based on links&charts in this thread.
> 
> 
> Self-discharge =ReCyko
> ...



Correction to power delivery, under heavy load Eneloop wins, at 2A there is no big difference.







I guess with Fenix LD20 there is no difference between Sanyo, GP and even with Medion LSD cells?
Not to mention how important the charger is.


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## odessit (Dec 15, 2008)

If you have a decent charger or a battery tester - Get ReCyko and independently verify the findings. I am doing the same for Eneloop vs Sanyo 2700 just be cause I am tired of hearing "Regular NiMH will discharge in few days". Hopefully several other people will do the same test to have a decent sample base.


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## Grox (Dec 15, 2008)

Egsise, I see you're new here, in that case, welcome to CPF!

May I just remind you that there's no need for sarcasm or any impoliteness when debating topics. It adds nothing to the arguments presented. CPF is a family friendly forum, and has a policy against trollish behaviour.


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## Eugene (Dec 15, 2008)

I have sanyo batteries from 1999 that are still in use today so when another brand has been out there for 10 years and still going than I might consider them, until then sany is still tops for me.


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## Egsise (Dec 15, 2008)

Grox said:


> Egsise, I see you're new here, in that case, welcome to CPF!
> 
> May I just remind you that there's no need for sarcasm or any impoliteness when debating topics. It adds nothing to the arguments presented. CPF is a family friendly forum, and has a policy against trollish behaviour.



Yes you may remind, but..

Me? Trolling?! IMPOLITE?!

Now now, I had links and charts, and I even corrected myself when I studied the charts and found that I was wrong.

Some others just had a gut feeling and no any data to back their claims, now isn't that trolling?

If people just believe "facts" blindly and don't question them, sun would still be revolving around the earth.

Sorry for possible spamming/flooding/trolling and my bad english, this isn't my native language.


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## odessit (Dec 15, 2008)

I did not noticed impoliteness... more like passionate conversation... anyway... Egsise - where in Arctic Circle are you?


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## cave dave (Dec 15, 2008)

There are only 2 maybe 3 factories that make LSD type cells. Sanyo in Japan and one or two factories in China.

All Japanese LSD cells are made by Sanyo and relabled. In which case just by the cheapest or easiest to aquire. There is quite a bit of indication that the Japan versions are better than the Chinese versions after a bit of use. There are a couple hundred threads on eneloop vs XX do a search.

As far as "the best" Nimh. That will always be an endless debate because different people put different emphasis on the 9 categories above. But yes Eneloops are very, very good batteries.


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## Unforgiven (Dec 15, 2008)

Egsise said:


> ...Me? Trolling?! IMPOLITE?!...



That was the impression you gave me as well.




Egsise said:


> ....Some others just had a gut feeling and no any data to back their claims, now isn't that trolling?....



How did you come to this conclusion?

Perhaps if you do a search as suggested, you can find out the facts before slinging accusations toward established respected members. You never know, you might find out they actually know what they are talking about.


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## Egsise (Dec 15, 2008)

Ok, now that explains a lot, didn't know that LSD cell factorys are so rare, thx cave dave.

odessit: Finland


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## Egsise (Dec 15, 2008)

Unforgiven:
A new member can be treated like led lenser by older members?
You noticed that I had linked charts etc. in my posts, right? Those charts were saying that Eneloops had not the best capacity, or lowest self discharge rate.(I did use search, did I)
So why not tell us all the reason why eneloops are still better even if the figures may say otherwise?

You know the answer, I know the answer(now,I guess), but does Mr.AdhdIwantanswerandIcantreadthesethreadsforweeks understand why Eneloops are the best LSD cells?

And pls, this time no answers without explanation, that does not help anyone.


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## Mr Happy (Dec 15, 2008)

Egsise: there is an accumulated history among the members of this forum in using various makes and types of NiMH cell. This history includes use in real applications over a period of time, with many charge cycles, different charging regimes, in different devices, at high and low temperatures, and spanning various other variables and circumstances.

It is difficult to condense all this history down into a few posts or charts, and it is difficult for a limited number of laboratory tests to give the complete picture of how a given cell performs.

So by all means look at the charts for information, as we all do. But also consider that others have bought these cells and really put them through their paces, and that experience might be worth noting.

To give you one example, SilverFox took the time to put some Eneloops and other cells through over 100 charges on a 15 minute charger to see how they stood up to it. He discovered (as I recall) that the Eneloops were still at 100% capacity after 100 cycles (this thread). There is also an interesting note starting at post 129 of that thread, comparing Eneloop durability with Rayovac Hybrids.


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## Vincent (Dec 15, 2008)

Stating links as facts, that are just others opinions are no better than your own opinions.


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## Black Rose (Dec 15, 2008)

Since it appears that links to highly regarded members tests and word of mouth from members that actually use the cells is not sufficient, the only other recourse is for anyone having issues with that information is to purchase cells of the various brands that are of interest, perform tests on them, and find the ones that work best for their chosen usage.

SilverFox is this sites resident battery guru and expects a lot from his cells. 
If his word is not good enough, no one elses will be.


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## Tiff (Dec 15, 2008)

Hi, I'm new to the forum, but after reading here I decided to buy the Sanyo Eneloops. I also wanted a charger that would do it all and be able to travel. So I bought a Lacross BC-900 charger which seems like the one to buy and it can handle 110-240 as well.
So far I couldn't be happier with the Eneloops and have them in a lot of my AA powered Wiimotes and flashlights as well as TV remotes etc...
I will probably buy another dozen of them after Christmas. Lots of Great advice in this Forum!
Thanks!


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## Vincent (Dec 15, 2008)

sounds great


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## JCup (Dec 15, 2008)

Egsise said:


> Unforgiven:
> 
> You know the answer, I know the answer(now,I guess), but does Mr.AdhdIwantanswerandIcantreadthesethreadsforweeks understand why Eneloops are the best LSD cells?
> 
> And pls, this time no answers without explanation, that does not help anyone.



Wow, Eg. I take you to be Mr.Adhd...s, so I will try to be succinct.

It seems to me no one flamed you. You are being too quick to counterpunch.

Here's some knowledge:

1) You can count on seasoned, accurate information from Silverfox or Mr. Happy. Both have strong technical backgrounds and skill. They have helped many, and won a lot of arguments (typically friendly on their part).

2) They and others after long discussions have argued (in more reflective tones than here) regarding why the Eneloops deserve first consideration in all but a few scenarios. Such as the need for that last 26% of capacity that the current highest claimants are (hopefully) providing. If you have to have it, and don't mind giving up the proven reliability, charge latitude, and ability to provide a lot of current with relatively good drop in Voltage - then by all means get the latest Sanyo.

3) Sanyo has been a leader in AA batteries of all types for a long time. Their products are private labeled by big name suppliers. Their 2,700 mAh high capacity is a good battery, and the 2,000 mAh Eneloops are widely acclaimed.

4) I'd rather not debate, so if you want any further exchange with me on the matter, do not disparage.


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## JCup (Dec 15, 2008)

Tiff said:


> Hi, I'm new to the forum, but after reading here I decided to buy the Sanyo Eneloops. I also wanted a charger that would do it all and be able to travel. So I bought a Lacross BC-900 charger which seems like the one to buy and it can handle 110-240 as well.
> So far I couldn't be happier with the Eneloops and have them in a lot of my AA powered Wiimotes and flashlights as well as TV remotes etc...
> I will probably buy another dozen of them after Christmas. Lots of Great advice in this Forum!
> Thanks!



Welcome, Tiff.

I got my first Eneloops about a year ago. Mine have all worked great, and I've given them to friends who used lots of batteries. The little 4 cell Sanyo chargers are pretty good units for the cost and convenient form factor. I have some similar applications, but mostly my Fenix 1xAA and 1xAAA lights, where they perform well.


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## Tiff (Dec 15, 2008)

JCup said:


> Welcome, Tiff.
> 
> I got my first Eneloops about a year ago. Mine have all worked great, and I've given them to friends who used lots of batteries. The little 4 cell Sanyo chargers are pretty good units for the cost and convenient form factor. I have some similar applications, but mostly my Fenix 1xAA and 1xAAA lights, where they perform well.


 
Thanks JCup, good to be here. I had to really read up on Eneloops to be convinced but now I can see the advice was spot on. I think I just might get the Sanyo Charger as well. The BC-900 tends to read a NIMh as Null if you drain it too low coughWiimotecough. The Sanyo charger should charge it even if it's dead low and then swap it into the other unit. I've told my wife when you see red on the Wiimote battery power level menu, swap out the batteries. Don't wait! Funny thing is my friends think all rechargeable batteries are the same and I used to too. But convincing them isn't easy. :sigh:
I wanted a charger that will work overseas when we go also wanted my Eneloops and Lithium is pretty much taboo on airplanes now. Sometimes the security people have no idea about it and want to hassle you about *any* Lithium battery. But these aren't Lithium! :twothumbs
I love my Nitecore D10 will probably buy another one. Maybe a D20 or a Fenix L2DQ5 for a bigger light. But gotta love the Eneloops they just work so well.
Tiff


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## Egsise (Dec 16, 2008)

JCup said:


> Wow, Eg. I take you to be Mr.Adhd...s, so I will try to be succinct. etcjadajadajada



JC! No, no, I said I know. :thumbsup:

Now lets take an example to clear things up(for you):
My friend asks me why on earth do I want to buy Eneloops, it has only 2000mAh.

If I just say "Respected members of CPF said they are the best", I'll probably get an answer like "*WAT?*":duh2:

Thanks to this forum I can now explain it so that my non-tech friend understands it too.
Big thanks to Mr Happy, SilverFox and many others for their hard work, but in the end it is the *facts* that count, not that who says it.
JC, you should know that.


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## Perfectionist (Dec 17, 2008)

Does anybody have an opinion on these Uniross LSD Hybrio's ?? 

http://www.batterylogic.co.uk/hybrio-multi-usage-longlife-aa-rechargeable-battery.asp

Apparently they are 2100mah as opposed to the Eneloop's 2000mah ?? :thumbsup:

Are they just as good (if not better) than the Eneloop's ..... or are they some cheap Chinese copy that would not match the quality of Sanyo ?? :thinking:


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## Mr Happy (Dec 17, 2008)

Perfectionist said:


> Are they just as good (if not better) than the Eneloop's ..... or are they some cheap Chinese copy that would not match the quality of Sanyo ?? :thinking:


It is hard to say for certain. I buy Hybrios in the US that look just like those batteries pictured, and they appear in every respect to be rebranded Eneloops (see this thread).

However...others have reported that the Hybrios sold in Europe are different. It may also be that Uniross changed supplier and that more recent Hybrios are different from the earlier ones.

If you buy some and they look exactly like the ones in my photos, then I think you can be fairly confident they are really Eneloops inside. But if they look different, they will not be as good as Eneloops overall.


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## Perfectionist (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks for the reply ..... I really should learn to use the search function !!


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## scott1981 (Jan 29, 2009)

Egsise said:


> JC! No, no, I said I know. :thumbsup:
> 
> Now lets take an example to clear things up(for you):
> My friend asks me why on earth do I want to buy Eneloops, it has only 2000mAh.
> ...





Well Eneloops may have 2000 mAh, and you may as well find other cells with much higher capacity, but the question that arises here is, for how long can these cells hold up 1.2/1.3V?
In other words they may have the capacity, but can they fully deliver it? Or will the voltage drop at some point in the middle? Remember that most electronic devices have a cut off voltage in the 1.0/1.1 V I have even heard about some cameras cutting off near the 1.2V range, which is really normal for a NIMH cell.
Eneloops can maintain a higher voltage throughout their discharge rate, which translates into higher watt/hour output, whereas regular cells may have more capacity but their watt / hour output is reduced because of lower votlages in their discharge curve.


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## scott1981 (Jan 29, 2009)

Egsise said:


> JC!
> Big thanks to Mr Happy, SilverFox and many others for their hard work, but in the end it is the *facts* that count, not that who says it.
> JC, you should know that.




If facts is what you care about, then Eneloops have a consistent mark in all areas of importance. Durability is certainly on of them. I would not use a cell that hace 100 mAh extra capacity in exchange for fewer cycles.


Some Facts:

* It is a FACT that Eneloops have a higher watt hour output than regular cells.

* It is a FACT that some others LSDs may exhibit *initially* higher performance, but in the long run Eneloops behave more consistently as the cell is more durable

* It is a FACT that Eneloops have better storage marks - main reason for buying LSDs I guess besides low internal resistance and higer voltage output.

* It is a FACT that people have used them for over 3 years and they are still going strong.


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## Egsise (Jan 29, 2009)

scott1981 said:


> If facts is what you care about, then Eneloops have a consistent mark in all areas of importance. Durability is certainly on of them. I would not use a cell that hace 100 mAh extra capacity in exchange for fewer cycles.
> 
> 
> Some Facts:
> ...



I know, read _*all*_ the posts in this thread pls.
You say facts without any data(charts/comparisons etc.) to back you up. 
For example:


scott1981 said:


> *It is a FACT that Eneloops have a higher watt hour output than regular cells..*


That is interesting, see this comparison by SilverFox.


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## odessit (Jan 29, 2009)

scott1981 - the only FACT is that specs are CONTINUOUSLY changing. Some cells are becoming better, some cells are becoming worse, *some* do infact stay the same as you claim...
It is possible that your statements are (were?) correct, there is only 1 way to find out.


```
* It is a FACT that Eneloops have a higher watt hour output than regular cells.
```
I've compared new Eneloop and new Sanyo 2700: 
After 90 day self discharge discharge - Sanyo 2700 still had higher mAh and mWh. Again - this is for brand new cells after break-in cycle.


```
* It is a FACT that some others LSDs may exhibit *initially* higher performance, but in the long run Eneloops behave more consistently as the cell is more durable
```
It is not only other LSDs. New high capacity batteries also exhibit same higher performance. See above statement.
I am running 100 cycles on Eneloop and Sanyo 2700 to age them. After that I will put them into 90 day storage to test the S.D. rates, Wh and Ah.


```
* It is a FACT that Eneloops have better storage marks - main reason for buying LSDs I guess besides low internal resistance and higer voltage output.
```
Depends on the usage pattern - this may not make any difference. After 90 days new Sanyo 2700 still outperformed Eneloop.


```
* It is a FACT that people have used them for over 3 years and they are still going strong.
```
In this I agree with you. Eneloops are good, safe bet. And depending on your performance requirenments may be the right choice too.

Plz, re-read some of the previous posts because your statements are not exactly correct.

BTW - the 100 cycle on Eneloop and Sanyo 2700 test will be done in ~1 week. I am at cycle 39 and 48 as of this morning. I will post mAh rating for each of the 100 cycles. (2A charge 1A discharge). Cycle 100 will get a discharge curve to display mAh and mWh.
Hopefully this will approximate real world usage and tell us if S-2700 may be an alternative for some of us.

Edit - here's data for 6 month discharge.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=cs&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fotonmag.cz%2Fsvitilny%2Fbaterie%2Fsrovnavaci-test-samovybijeni-tuzkovych-aa-baterii%2F&sl=cs&tl=en&history_state0=


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## 325addict (Jan 29, 2009)

For some reason, I never read something about VARTA on this forum. In Europe, they've been repeatedly tested as the best, or one of the best available.
So I bought a few (and they are expensive, at >3 Euros a piece) and I can only fully agree.
The 5706 should have a capacity of 2700mAh, and with my simple current-source type charger that I made 20 years ago, I still have more than 2500mAh... that's not bad!
The oldest ones must be over a year now and still perform flawless.

Maybe an idea to try these?


Timmo.


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## Black Rose (Jan 29, 2009)

325addict said:


> For some reason, I never read something about VARTA on this forum.


Varta cells are rare in North America and that is probably why there isn't much info on them here.

Even though there is a good sized population of European members on this site, not many mention Varta cells.

Speculation is that the Varta LSD cells are the same as the Rayovac Hybrids, since both Varta and Rayovac are owned by the Spectrum Brands umbrella company.


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## BentHeadTX (Jan 30, 2009)

My Powerex 2700's all went high self discharge after two years  
After all my 2500's went to the recycle bin, the 2700's tanking did not help much. The only batteries I run now are Eneloop AAA/AA and have not had any problems. Fired up my bicycle rear LED flasher after 6 months and it still throws the lumens. No hassle, no problems and I expect a long life from the Eneloops...that is what counts for me. 
The rechargables feed a camera, L2D, L1D as bike lights and a D10 EDC


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## shadowjk (Jan 30, 2009)

I have a collection of Varta ready2use cells. I haven't used them much though. At the time they were the cheapest available, the store had priced them at 9€ for a 4-pack, which was below the normal 18€ for 4-pack of "2700mAh" cells of some generic label. Either Varta was doing something smart, or the store thought these "low capacity" cells had to be priced lower.


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