# M6 Guardian



## 65535 (Dec 15, 2006)

Whats the consences good bad ugly? I like it and plan on purchasing one for general use as a super power light. will get both bulbs.


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## Topper (Dec 15, 2006)

Hi, I only have 2 of them so stick around and hopefully some experts will log in and tell you what a great light it is. I don't feel qualifed. 
Topper


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 15, 2006)

Welcome to CPF. There are several hundred threads on the M6, and more posts. Try the Seach function, and try the google search-CPF only, at the top of each page. A wealth of information is available to you, more than you will learn in a few posts in this thread.

The M6 is the flagship light of the Surefire flashlight line. I do not have one, but have read many of the M6 threads, and down the line I intend to purchase one.

Bill


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## deranged_coder (Dec 15, 2006)

I got an M6 a few weeks ago and IMHO it is awesome if you need a lot of light but the fact that it uses 6 x CR123A batteries may drive you into the poor house really quick if you plan to use the light a lot.  

Be aware that Surefire seems to be having some production issues with the MN20 assembly so they are kinda hard to come by at the moment. Having said that, I got my M6 a few weeks ago from OpticsHQ and it had both the MN20 and MN21 lamp assemblies in the box. If you have not yet chosen a shop to buy the M6 from, I highly recommend them because in my own personal experience they have excellent pricing and customer service.


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## Chucula (Dec 15, 2006)

I bought mine for the same reason you are planning to, and it has served me well. Lotsa light (i use the MN21 bulb) in a small package that is really durable. The only downside is the power it needs (6 123a's) but otherwise I recommend it.

I am waiting for an LED to come out that can truly harness the power of 6 cr123's. When it comes out, I will try to get a tower mod done with it to replace the bulb.


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## Trashman (Dec 15, 2006)

Search CPF and look into the various rechargeable options that are available. It'll save you a lot of money!


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## Danbo (Dec 15, 2006)

I have one, and I love it. However, I'm waiting for somebody to come out with a nice LED head for it.


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## Size15's (Dec 15, 2006)

I've only got three so I can't really comment.

I carry one in my rucksack that goes where I go mostly.

The M6 is excellent. If I didn't have any I'd buy one asap.


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## cy (Dec 15, 2006)

M6's weaknesses are strengths depending upon your point of view. 
for military duties it could be a strength to have lithium cells that last for 10+ years ready to go on a moments notice. cost for cells would have no bearing if you're not paying for em. 

but for us regular folks, having a rechargeable solution is key to every day use. So far JS's M6R is the only proven rechargeable pack solution. don't fall for any pre-payment deals for rechargeable M6 packs. don't send $$ until they are ready to ship. personally don't care for extensions necessary for some M6 packs. changes the light too much, it's no longer an M6 after losing one of the best form factors around. 

LED's are cool but you really don't gain much if anything running in M6. which is designed to throw out serious lumens. with current LED technologies you would need a custom multiple LED M6 head to achieve anywhere near output of NM21 hola. then color rendition will not be as good. 

Surefire M6 has been out for awhile, but still sets the bar for a small high output light.

here's a pic of surefire M6 with best of both power solutions. 
stock CR123 pack, M6R and misc items needed for support.


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## bwaites (Dec 15, 2006)

The KING of lights!

I used to think differently, but it really is!

Bill


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## benchmade_boy (Dec 15, 2006)

the m6 is a great light and i will one day have one . but maybe you might also consider and M3T? you can put an a19 on the end and have an M4 or you can bore out the body+A19+2 18540=rechargable mn16 or mn15


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## wmirag (Dec 15, 2006)

The M6 beam is very white and it throws a wide, strong beam quite a ways. It lights up a very wide area too, nothing like a spot which gives me tunnel vision. It puts out so much light it almost feels "heavy" when you pan it side to side.

W.


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## dixemon (Dec 15, 2006)

I got one about 6 months ago and absolutly love it. Highly recomended


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## Size15's (Dec 15, 2006)

wmirag said:


> The M6... puts out so much light it almost feels "heavy" when you pan it side to side.


That's so true!


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## rdh226 (Dec 15, 2006)

Danbo said:


> I have one, and I love it. However, I'm waiting for somebody to come out with a nice LED head for it.


Arcmania makes (has made) "tower" modules (single LuxV lamp assembly) that plugs right in
(replaces MN20/MN21, no mods)

Milky makes a killer 7 x LuxIII head -- 400 to 700 Lumens nominal, depending on options.

You need wait no longer.

-RDH


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## cy (Dec 15, 2006)

five watt tower LED units are puny, even Xbin, when compared to M6 HOLA. sold all mine off, due to lack of performance. 

have not seen a millky 7x 3watt head. but assuming 60 lumens per led x7 = 420 lumens out the front end (factoring for heat, probably way less). that's pretty sweet, but single reflector will out throw tiny reflectors every time. cree's may up the ante...



rdh226 said:


> Arcmania makes (has made) "tower" modules (single LuxV lamp assembly) that plugs right in
> (replaces MN20/MN21, no mods)
> 
> Milky makes a killer 7 x LuxIII head -- 400 to 700 Lumens nominal, depending on options.
> ...


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## Dustin Liu (Dec 15, 2006)

It is a very good light, get it asap :naughty::naughty::naughty:


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## LED61 (Dec 15, 2006)

My experience with the M6 dates back only a month and a half after knowledgeable CPF´r here convinced me to buy it. It will be expensive if you plan to use the HOLA, but I´ve found as I go along that the LOLA is the better choice. It is plenty light for most tasks. The HOLA is even offending if you as much as move the light for close quarters, it completely does away with your night vision, which you´d have to preserve. I would even say the LOLA is too bright. So, with that in mind my use of both lamps is as flash only and 2 minutes max runtime at a time. Done this way your batteries still last a long time. My landkeeper uses my second M6 also with a LOLA, and while he does his rounds in the pitch black flashing the light prevents intruders from knowing his position. 

What it boils down to is what do you need the light for ?


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## Bryan (Dec 15, 2006)

I really want to get an M6 also, but it seems like I could build a Mag for half the cost and it would be much brighter (and I could recharge it). But I do appreciate Surefire's quality so it is a tough decision. 

The cost of the Ultrafire 500 seems very reasonable as well so that's another option. If I didn't have so many other hobbies I'd buy them all lol.


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## batman (Dec 15, 2006)

-just got my M6 about 3 days ago..it's the coolest illumination tool I've ever seen or used. As JS pointed out, it will also run on the MN-15 lamp from the M3T..2.5 hours runtime. I have tried it in this configuratino and it's still a powerhouse. 

The HOLA is just brilliant,..beautiful and commands respect for hundreds of feet. If you plan to use the light a lot you could just run the MN-15 and still have more flashlight than anyone else you know.


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## js (Dec 15, 2006)

Here are some links:

First, to LED61's thread

Next, check out the X-LOLA link in my sigline, and also the M6-R link.


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## Skyline (Dec 15, 2006)

Bryan said:


> I really want to get an M6 also, but it seems like I could build a Mag for half the cost and it would be much brighter (and I could recharge it). But I do appreciate Surefire's quality so it is a tough decision.
> 
> The cost of the Ultrafire 500 seems very reasonable as well so that's another option. If I didn't have so many other hobbies I'd buy them all lol.



Wow. I wouldn't even try to have any comparison between the M6 and all the wannabes. I only have one M6 and one 10X, and I love them both.

The M6 makes for a great discussion piece during parties. I pulled mine out at night-time bbq and folks couldn't help but be stunned at the huge-beam-from-a-small-package that was cast about the neighborhood. It has to be seen to be believed.


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## Bryan (Dec 15, 2006)

Skyline said:


> Wow. I wouldn't even try to have any comparison between the M6 and all the wannabes.


 

Do you own a modified Mag? Most of the beamshots I've seen of a Mag are much brighter than the M6.


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## FIRE_FLY (Dec 15, 2006)

testing


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## adirondackdestroyer (Dec 16, 2006)

How long is the runtime on the 6 CR123 cells? I can see this light costing an absolute fortune to actually use, which kind of makes it almost useless in my mind anyway. 
I have a 2C ROP Lo output bulb run on 2 18650 cells which is pretty damn bright and has a very smooth (Surefire quality) beam since it has a HS reflector. How much brighter is the M6 compared to my ROP? I have never handled an M6 either, is the size similar as well? 
If all else is roughly the same I have no idea why anyone with a head on their shoulders would even consider the M6 when you factor in cost of actually using it.


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## cy (Dec 16, 2006)

I've owned a butt load of mag mods... sold them all. 

major part of M6's charm is the form factor. yes some mag mods were brighter, but were quite a bit larger and no where near as durable. M6's shock isolated bezel puts it a class by itself. 

Surefire M6 with M6R sets the bar that no other light has even come close. besides being rechargeable for guilt-free lumens. M6R's regulated beam throws out a consistent white beam. soft start extend bulb life. best of all M6R runs cool enough to do a 20 minute run. try that with stock M6 pack and it will probably shut down from heat. 

Surefire needs to put M6R design into production. it's that good!



Bryan said:


> Do you own a modified Mag? Most of the beamshots I've seen of a Mag are much brighter than the M6.


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## JimmyB (Dec 16, 2006)

People often complain about Surefire prices. You can get just as many, if not more lumens from many lights out there or by building your own hotwire, get much more light than an M6. If your only measure of performance for a flashlight is the amount of lumens, then pass on the M6. 


The M6 is designed to be bashed into the brick as you're rappelling down a wall, knocked against a metal door jamb as you're breeching a door, and dropped onto the floor and kicked across the room as you're fighting for your life with a crank head. Then after more use/abuse of this kind, it still pumps out 500+ lumens. 


If you can buy or build another light that can do all this and more, then by all means get it. I’ll be next in line to get one. Until then there’s the M6.


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## deranged_coder (Dec 16, 2006)

adirondackdestroyer said:


> How long is the runtime on the 6 CR123 cells?
> .
> .
> .
> If all else is roughly the same I have no idea why anyone with a head on their shoulders would even consider the M6 when you factor in cost of actually using it.


The runtime for the MN20 is 250 lumens at 60 minutes. For the MN21 it is 500 lumens at 20 minutes.

I think a big factor of the cost of the M6 is the fact that it is designed to survive all sorts of abuse that could easily destroy lesser flashlights.


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## Bryan (Dec 16, 2006)

JimmyB said:


> People often complain about Surefire prices. You can get just as many, if not more lumens from many lights out there or by building your own hotwire, get much more light than an M6. If your only measure of performance for a flashlight is the amount of lumens, then pass on the M6.
> 
> 
> The M6 is designed to be bashed into the brick as you're rappelling down a wall, knocked against a metal door jamb as you're breeching a door, and dropped onto the floor and kicked across the room as you're fighting for your life with a crank head. Then after more use/abuse of this kind, it still pumps out 500+ lumens.
> ...


 
I see your point, but how many of us are SWAT team members? If the M6 was $100 cheaper, I wouldn't be arguing with you though


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## cy (Dec 16, 2006)

bryan, no question supporting Surefire M6 is not cheap. at 6x CR123's a load. that's why a regulated rechargeable solution like M6R is so compelling.

due to safety issues using private label Chinese lithium cells in series. I've switched to rechargeable cells in all my lights that lithium cells in series. Using brand name primary lithium cells for backup. 

Surefire's stock battery pack is usually loaded with 6x Surefire cells for backup to M6R.


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## Flakey (Dec 16, 2006)

In my opinion the M6 is not a good light. the M6-R is however a SUPERB light. now there is reasoning behind my madness. the m6 has a few flaws from the factory. it DEVOURS lithium primaries, secondly the high output bulb draws too much power from the lithiums, so much so that the batteries when removed from one are hot to the touch. when you throw in regulation, and a powersource that is more capable of meeting the demands of the bulb inside of it it is wonderfull. when thinking about flashlights there are some main components. BODY, LIGHT EMMITER, POWER SOURCE, SWICHING / DRIVE MECHANISM. in the M6 everything but the power source is top notch, no doubt surefire makes great lights, but they dont engeneer new batteries, and they have not "seen the light" of lithium ion yet. No i dont own one ... 600 Lumens isnt Alot of light to me anymore, i have two flashlights that have more than 3000 lumen output and BOTH of them have more than 20 minute run time. If you want to make 600 legitimate lumens for about $80 you can build an ROP LE 2c. although the fit and finish may be much better on the m6 i could make a batch of rop's for the price of one m6. 

just my .02


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## LED61 (Dec 16, 2006)

Many of you guys are still talking 250 lumens out of the MN20 lamp. I agree with JS measurements that put it closer to 400 lumens. It's plenty bright for most things and rugged. I love my M6's.


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## bwaites (Dec 16, 2006)

Flakey,

You are right in that you can make a bunch of ROP's for the price of one M6. 

BUT...if I gave you the option of taking all those and dropping them from a height of 6 feet while running, and doing the same with just 1 M6, which would you bet would still be running after the drop?

That's why an M6 is my "SHTFL" (S...Hits the fan light)! 

Milkyspit is now producing some long running LED replacement heads for the M6 that produce roughly the same outputs as the HOLA, although I have yet to see if they have close to the same throw, so there may be a reasonable long running LED option also. Like all things M6, they don't come cheap!

As for the MagMod options, I have produced literally hundreds of them over the last 3 years, none are as dependable as the M6 is.

There is ONE light that is comparable and is much cheaper. That is the HOLA version of the Tigerlight FBOP. Roughly the same size as the M6, it is almost as tough, (check out this video: http://www.tigerlight.net/getVideo.php?videoName=Durability)

Trust me guys, NO MagMod I've seen can compare with that kind of durability!!

Bill


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## cy (Dec 16, 2006)

WOW... didn't know tigerlight was that tuff!
impressive... is there a comparable video showing M6 abused like that?

PK is famous for high end light toss.


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## Size15's (Dec 16, 2006)

cy said:


> WOW... didn't know tigerlight was that tuff!
> impressive... is there a comparable video showing M6 abused like that?
> PK is famous for high end light toss.



Single samples of products being put through their paces are one thing - multiple units (one or two dozen) would begin to give me confidence. Perhaps my standards are too high as a result of working for a product test lab but I think they are appropriate based on my experience of breaking things for a living.

I regard the TigerLight 8" FBoP highly as I've posted many times in the past. It didn't start so well though since one of the wire leads of my first TigerLight lamp assembly snapped off without any abusive use and no drops etc.
My confidence in it's ability to handle the sort of abuse I've personally dished out to various individual samples of SureFires is not too high but then my use of flashlights does not require such performance to be an important characteristic.

When considering whether a device can handle abusive use or conditions one should consider why it is so important that the device should have this ability for us the users in each of our own various applications.

One thing to consider is that subjecting a product to abusive use and it surviving should not give you more confidence that it will survive another encounter. Such is the case with 'crash' helmets that should be replaced after each impact/incident.

I have ten so-called lifejackets in my team (for seven of us who work near water). On a recent training exercise three failed to inflate when the wearer entered the water. Of those one failed to inflate with the pull-cord and had to be inflated by the blow-tube. All of the ten had been fitted with brand new firing mechanisms and checked by a certified training instructor as well as my team members themselves. In the group we were training with two other jackets failed to inflate with the auto mechanism. That's five out of 18 LIFEjackets from the manufacturer supplying the whole Agency which I understand has many thousands of jackets. The failure to automatically inflate is not uncommon but it is quite rare.

What I'm saying is that confidence in product performance should be earned through close experience of ability to perform under realistic training and in-use conditions.

I drop one of my M6's and the bulb fails. I have a backup flashlight on me because light is important for the task I am performing. 
Never rely on one device alone. That's why lifejackets have three mechanism for inflation and I will be pushing for my team to attend the water-safety training course out at the man-made river instead of in the indoor swimming pool. I also want the top three mileage drivers in my team to attend advanced driving courses including skid-pan and off-road.

I read that some people consider the M6 to be far to expensive because you can build several far brighter flashlights for the same price. That's nice.

I read that some people consider the M6's output to be understated and that others use output ratings to compare flashlight brands. That's nice.

Nice has nothing to do with the M6. It is what it is.
Cost irrelevant to purpose.
Output rating irrelevant to purpose.
The M6 is designed and built to better allow operators to prevail and it does that. If you need it – you need it. If you don’t you don’t.
It is what it is.

Do I need the M6? No.
So why do I have three? Good question.
I like the M6. A lot!

Al


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## 65535 (Dec 16, 2006)

Ok so basically it's about yoru favorite light. I am buying it for the sole purpose of a high output flashlight. when output no other light can reach that I would own thats what its for. Aside from that being the Battery king (www.rcgroups.com) at least I have a strong history workign with batteries I should have no problems handlign the Exp. of primary cells. Btw what is the input voltage across the 6 batteries? is it a whopping 18 volts 6 or is it 9?


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## js (Dec 16, 2006)

65535,

If you looked through the LED61 thread I linked to above, you would know that the battery holder takes the 6 123's and turns them into two parellel stacks of three 3 volt 123's. So open circuit voltage is 9 volts, and voltage under load for the MN21 is about 6.8 volts, and about 7.5 volts for the MN20.

If all you want is massive output, the M6 is not the light for you.

As for the comments made here, I pretty much have responded to all of them in the LED61 thread, so since I provided the link, I won't bother re-typing all that stuff again. Suffice it to say that I do not think that the M6 power source is deficient, nor do I think that mag mods are better than an M6.

Also, I do not think the lumens ratings of the M6 are irrelevant (with all due respect to Size15s). A mag85 *IS NOT* twice as bright as a SF M6. The mag85 is probably putting out around 800 lumens out the front of the light if the batteries are fresh. The M6 is putting out 630 lumens with fresh cells. NOT half as bright at all. More like 3/4 as bright, in a much smaller, much more reliable and rugged package.

cy,

Loved your posts in this thread! Right on the money. Totally agree about the extensions thing, too.


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## js (Dec 16, 2006)

You know, I've been thinking, and there maybe is something I didn't really address in the LED61 thread, and that is the question of why the SF M6 might be a good choice for "the rest of us"--the people who aren't LEO or S&R or Special Forces and so on. Why would something like the M6 make any kind of sense for the average Joe to buy?

I think maybe that there are some answers to that question, --some reasons why it DOES make sense to own the M6 even if you aren't repelling from helicopters into a war torn city.

So, what are they?

1. For starters, the M6 is almost completely immune to oxidation and degradation over time due to contact resistance buildup at the switch and lamp assembly. The inside is Chem Koted or electrically plated (MB20 battery holder contacts) and thus the M6 can sit by your bed side or in a kitchen cupboard for years and be good to go when you need it. That's a definite plus!

2. The Li-Mn-02 primary batteries are also very resistant to degrading and self-discharging while sitting around. They can stand up to the harsh temperature extremes to be found in a car glove box or hatch back or trunk, and still have almost all of their charge intact when your car breaks down. Or they can sit happily around just about anywhere else on earth and still be good to go when you need them. Try that with alkalines or NiMH!

3. The M6 running the MN20 has a full hour of runtime and really incredible brightness, all of it packed into a light that is smaller than a 2D mag. Or, if you install the MN15, which I am calling the X-LOLA (see link in sigline), you get very respectable brightness for *two and a half hours*. At this rate, the M6 isn't eating batteries significantly faster than the typical 2x123 light. And you get 200 lumens instead of 100 (or less)! In other words, what I'm saying is that if you run the M6 as if you *ARE* an average Joe instead of GI Joe, then the typical criticism against the M6 really doesn't hold anymore.

4. Sheer durability and ruggedness. The M6 will work and will stand up to some heavy use and abuse. Here's a great example: I actually do keep my M6 by my bedside, underneath my bedside table. Well, one day one of the legs of my bed frame came off the little block of wood and furniture caster that I use to keep my bed level, *and the full weight of me and the bed landed on top of the SWITCH of my M6*. It was for all intents and purposes a freaking bed leg for a moment or two. Yet, despite that, it still works perfectly. I didn't notice any damage at all nor did I notice any difference in the action of the switch. That impressed me! So, what I'm saying is that while most of us don't need the level of ruggedness and quality built into the M6, it sure can come in handy at times!

5. Sheer joy of use and function! The M6 is a joy to use and handle. Every time I grab my M6 and use it I get a return on my investment in the pleasure of using it. The beam is lovely and the light is lovely. It's a thing of beauty.

Does any of this mean that the M6 is "worth it"? Only you can answer that. I know it's worth it for me! I was thinking about selling my M6 some time ago because I could have used the money and I figured my TigerLight could stand in for it. But when it came down to actually selling it, I balked. I realized I couldn't; that I didn't want to; that the TigerLight could NOT stand in for it; and that I would miss my M6 dearly if I was so stupid as to sell it.

So I kept it. And I'm really really glad I did. It's one of the lights I would buy first, right after an A2, if I had to start all over again.


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## Size15's (Dec 16, 2006)

js said:


> Also, I do not think the lumens ratings of the M6 are irrelevant (with all due respect to Size15s). A mag85 *IS NOT* twice as bright as a SF M6. The mag85 is probably putting out around 800 lumens out the front of the light if the batteries are fresh. The M6 is putting out 630 lumens with fresh cells. NOT half as bright at all. More like 3/4 as bright, in a much smaller, much more reliable and rugged package.



What I mean is that lumen ratings can only really be confirmed using an integrating sphere and it is extremely difficult to tell by how much a one beam is less or more output to another even if the beam light distribution was similar and even if you did know for certain that one of the beams was outputting a known verified lumen output at the time of comparison.

It doesn't matter what the output rating is since most companies seem to overstate output and SureFire seems to understate theirs. For me the light is either not bright enough, or too bright.

Normally I perfer the High Output Lamp Assemblies but with the M6 I find myself preferring the MN20 standard output lamp assembly over the MN21 HOLA. The MN20 maintains brilliant white light for far longer than most un-regulated CR123A powered incandescent lights in my experience.

Al


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## js (Dec 16, 2006)

Al,

You are, of course, correct! Point taken.

However, even so, it is better in my opinion to at least try to maintain a set of numbers which *as much as possible* reflect real world experience and actual beam conditions. That is why I have often been the one to point out the difference between torch lumens (tLu) and bulb lumens (bLu). It is at least MORE of a help for people trying to figure out whether a given light they are thinking of purchasing is either "not bright enough, or too bright" (or just right).

Plus, I hate the injustice of it; I hate to see people pulling the Lion's tail by putting down the SF M6 vs. their mag mods by using the under-rated SF Lumens on the one hand, and the over-rated WA bulb-lumens on the other hand. Thinking that a SF M6 is 500 lumens and a mag85 is 1234 lumens is just out to lunch and NOT reflective of reality by a long shot.

Anyway, as I said, you are right. Lumens ratings can only REALLY be confirmed via an integrating sphere. For those who would like to understand more about bulb vs. torch lumens and how I arrive at my ratings, please see my bLu vs. tLu: IS confirms 65% conversion factor thread.


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## cy (Dec 16, 2006)

just read this entire thread... can't believe I've missed until now. 



js said:


> Here are some links:
> 
> First, to LED61's thread
> 
> Next, check out the X-LOLA link in my sigline, and also the M6-R link.


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## Size15's (Dec 16, 2006)

JS, Yep! It is important to know the provenance of your data and whether it has any limitations, caveats and uncertainties.

When you strive to use lumen values that have been qualified and have congruent baselines then they have more meaning. However, few do.

Still, coming from a background having sat on a British Standards Committee and being immersed in the world of standards it pains me that the "flashlight industry" is too small and its trade descriptions too unimportant to its market for National or International standards organisations to want to standardise output and runtime product descriptions. Additionally, the USA flashlight manufacturers appear unwilling to work together with each other and the National Standards body to produce standards that they [the USA manufacturers] can use to enhance their market positions in the face of heavy international competition flooding the market.

When I think of the M6 I acknowledge it in its context as a product improvement to the 12PM. The M6 is brighter and whiter for significantly longer in a more compact, far more durable package compared with the 12PM which makes is more useful to a wider number of users.


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## JimmyB (Dec 16, 2006)

Jim,

I'm curious as to why you have less confidence in the N2 vs the MN15 in the M6? Since your post on the MN15 being an X-LOLA, I've been running an N2 in my M6. I don't have much runtime on it but so far.............



Also for everyone else, why do any of us have to justify owning a particular light? I use many lights while on duty and appreciate and sometimes need the ruggedness inherent in their design. Mostly I buy lights because I like them. There is a "cool factor" involved. I don't use an M6 for duty. I bought one because I liked it. If that makes me stupid, as another poster put it, so be it. At least I'm happily stupid.


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## Akubra (Dec 16, 2006)

As for the lamp assemblies : usually both lamp assemblies are included with the M6. However, it seems like they have been out of stock for some time, and there was only the MN21 included with the M6 (along with a voucher for another lamp assembly).

Recently my MN20 broke inside my bezel, and I had to send it in. I was told that the MN20 was back in stock, and I also received two of them when my bezel was returned to me... .


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## Strategic light Command (Dec 16, 2006)

Where can you buy these M6R rechargeable batteries for an M6?

I would be interested in buying a Surefire M6, but only if if could use rechargeable batteries in it - would cost a fortune otherwise!


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## js (Dec 16, 2006)

JimmyB,

My "lack of confidence" in running the N2 in the stock M6 is not based on any knoweldge I have! Quite the contrary. I just don't know anything really definite and accurate about the N2, while I *DO* know about the MN15. That's all.

If the N2 is working for you in the M6, that's freaking GREAT! Please post your experience to my X-LOLA thread so others can know the good news. If I remember correctly, most people prefer the beam of the N2 to the MN15. My concern about the N2 was that it would be over-driven too hard against the two parallel stacks of three 123's. I know the MN15 is a little under-driven on a single stack, so I wasn't that worried about trying it against two stacks. And when I did, I checked the CCT against a known source (A2) to verify the drive level.

I just haven't done these things with the N2 yet. The N2 is supposed to be pretty hard to get a hold of, isn't it? SureFire doesn't have any in stock at any rate. Does anyone know of another vendor who has N2's for sale right now?

Strategic light Command,

Sadly, there is no way to get an M6-R right now. Not unless wquiles or The Steve would be willing to make one for you (or me--but I'm not making them, nor will I in the future), or unless someone was willing to sell their M6-R. I made 41 of them. One did come up for sale just recently, actually, but it sold pretty quickly.

AWR has a rechargeable pack design and is taking money, but if I were you I'd wait until he is actually shipping them _en masse_ before sending him any money. Starlight and wquiles have AWR packs (HD-M6's they are called) and like them a great deal, but they are the only two people right now who DO have them.


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## wmugrad28 (Dec 16, 2006)

I recently saw a Surefire M6 at a Gander Mountain that was being sold at a discount since it was the only one left and it was on display. Since I am now thinking about purchasing one really soon, I inspected it and noticed that the textured grip area looked like it was worn a bit. I don't believe it was returned, but I didn't ask. Does the M6 easily wear around the texturized grip during use from an average joe?


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## js (Dec 16, 2006)

wmugrad28,

Not in my experience. What sort of wear are you talking about? Bare aluminum showing through? That is unusual unless you ding it or scrape it hard against something like concrete.

However, if you mean that the color is a shade or two lighter, that is fairly common. HA is difficult to match, part to part, run to run.


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## JimmyB (Dec 16, 2006)

Thanks for the reply Jim. It's about what I expected to hear. As far as CCT all I can say is the beam is VERY white next to another normally driven N2. I bought 3 N2 LA's a while ago so I figured I could risk one. It's one of my favorite LA's. I don't know of anyone who has them in stock. I'll post in the other thread when I get more time on the N2 in the M6.

I'm sure there are those who think running alternative LA's in the M6 makes no sense and I won't argue with them. One of the attributes of the M6 is reliability and using an unauthorized LA, especially an unproven configuration like the N2, compromises that. As I said before, I have the M6 because I like it and I don't use it for anything more serious than picking up my dog's poop on the sidewalk. If I mess up my light I have no one to blame but myself. In the meantime, dog doo aside, I'm having fun. That's worth the price for me.


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## wmugrad28 (Dec 16, 2006)

It looked like it was worn a bit on the texturized grip bumps and the grip ridges. I didn't look close enough to see if it was bare metal, but it just looked a little rough. The rest of the flashlight was in great shape.


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## js (Dec 16, 2006)

JimmyB,

Yes. Running alternate LA in the M6 is a thing to do with caution! That's why I posted the X-LOLA thread, and why I am doing long-term testing of the MN15 in the M6. I _think_ it is a safe, conservative LA to run. I mean that it should be reliable and about as long-lived as most other SF LA's. I can't say that about the N2, and I wasn't as confident about it. But knowing what I did about the MN15, I *was* confident about that LA.

Anyway, thanks for your posts!


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## Danbo (Dec 16, 2006)

rdh226 said:


> Arcmania makes (has made) "tower" modules (single LuxV lamp assembly) that plugs right in
> (replaces MN20/MN21, no mods)
> 
> Milky makes a killer 7 x LuxIII head -- 400 to 700 Lumens nominal, depending on options.
> ...




My wallet says, "Damn you!"


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## 65535 (Dec 16, 2006)

Thanks for everything. I actually completely missed teh LED61 thread as I was browsing quickly and jsut wanted to shoot out a few questions as I had a party to attend.


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## Bryan (Dec 17, 2006)

I'm curious, why are many people recommending the M6R if we can't even buy the packs anymore?


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## cy (Dec 17, 2006)

no one has recommended you buy an M6R, as most us already know JS is not making anymore. 

all we are doing is stating how good they are. this doesn't mean the design cannot be improved. a few modders have already constructed their own version of M6R using willie hunt regulators sold by JS. 

so far no-one has managed to construct another M6 pack with better quality than JS (silver solder contacts). a few packs posted has an improved charger plug socket. 



Bryan said:


> I'm curious, why are many people recommending the M6R if we can't even buy the packs anymore?


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## Stingray (Dec 17, 2006)

js said:


> I just haven't done these things with the N2 yet. The N2 is supposed to be pretty hard to get a hold of, isn't it? SureFire doesn't have any in stock at any rate. Does anyone know of another vendor who has N2's for sale right now?



I bought one here a while ago.


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## LED61 (Dec 17, 2006)

I just got back from an away weekend and found JS and Size15's posts and despite my other extensive thread I still learn tons of things from them. Thank you both gentlemen for providing us with your vast knowledge on the great SF M6.


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