# Newbie - Mag 85 Bulb Selection



## wooniris (May 3, 2007)

Help appreciated with the following;



What bulb is best for a 6 AA- 2D Pack?



What bulb is best for a 9 AA- 3D Pack?



What is the difference between the various bulb types i.e. WA 01111, WA 01185, WA 01274, WA 01331, Carley CL-809, Carley 1057 & WA 01166 etc


Thanks

Woon


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## Brozneo (May 3, 2007)

+ 1 on wanting to know the above information.

I'm a Mag85 newbie!


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## Josey (May 3, 2007)

The Mag85 needs the WA01185 bulb, which takes 9 NiMH cells or 3 Li-Ion cells. It produces 1234 bulb lumens (but less come out the front end).

A 6-cell (NiMH) or 2-cell Li-Ion light takes the WA01111 bulb (880 bulb lumens) or the ROP bulb, either high or low. The high is between the 1185 and 1111, closer to the 1185.

Here are some more:

1166 over-driven at 12.5 V produces 914 bulb lumens
1185 (10.8 V) 1234 lumens
1331 (10.8 V) 806 lumens
1306 (10.8 V) 360
1274 (8.4 V) 948
1111 (7.2 V) 880
1160 (6.0 V) 618
1183 (4.8 V) 442
5761 (7.2 V) 900 (but needs 5.5 amps)


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## LED BriCK (May 3, 2007)

Pardon me, but I'd like to chime in here with a related question on Mag85 bulbs- I have a Mag85 driven by 9 CBP1650s through an AWR hotdriver. I saw a 12V 75 watt bi-pin halogen bulb at Home Depot. I realize it would be underdriven at 10.8V, but do you think it would be any brighter than the overdriven 1185? The relationship between lumens and voltage/amperage/watts escapes me. I'm assuming it would draw more amps and I don't know if the HD could take it, otherwise I'd just try it and see.


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## tebore (May 3, 2007)

Seems like a lot of you guys are confused. Not all magmods are Mag85s. Only the one using the WA1185 bulb is called a Mag85. 

SO STOP CALLING MODS MAG85s. 

Good info Josey


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## cutlerylover (May 3, 2007)

tebore said:


> Seems like a lot of you guys are confused. Not all magmods are Mag85s. Only the one using the WA1185 bulb is called a Mag85.
> 
> SO STOP CALLING MODS MAG85s.
> 
> Good info Josey


 
It is confusing...but if everyone can remmeber that a Mag85 is called that because it uses the WA11"85" bulb...but tebore is right, there are many different mag mods with different bulbs, and battery options, the general term is a mag mod, not a mag85, which is specific to the one mod...


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## LED BriCK (May 3, 2007)

Sorry, I was just referring to it as a Mag85 because that's what it is now. If I install this other bulb, I'll have to come up with a new name for it I (but I don't know what the bulb is called, just that it's a 12V 75W bi-pin halogen).


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## tebore (May 3, 2007)

LED BriCK said:


> Sorry, I was just referring to it as a Mag85 because that's what it is now. If I install this other bulb, I'll have to come up with a new name for it I (but I don't know what the bulb is called, just that it's a 12V 75W bi-pin halogen).



I think I've seen the term Mag75W or it's Mag(lumen output) for bi-pins.


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## LuxLuthor (May 3, 2007)

The best way to understand the various Welch Allyn bulbs is to look at AWR's spreadsheet here where he displays voltage from various battery scenarios, and which bulbs fit in that range.

He also has an Excel "Hotrater" spreadsheet where you can change variables such as increasing the voltage, and see how it changes bulb lumens, bulb life, etc.



tebore said:


> I think I've seen the term Mag75W or it's Mag(lumen output) for bi-pins.


That is not the convention that everyone has been using. We have tended to use the last two digits of the WA bulbs, but once you get into 75W, 90W, 100W, 250W those are usually Osram bulbs that are specified differently. For example, look at the listings in my first post in this thread to get some ideas of the names.


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## LuxLuthor (May 3, 2007)

LED BriCK said:


> Pardon me, but I'd like to chime in here with a related question on Mag85 bulbs- I have a Mag85 driven by 9 CBP1650s through an AWR hotdriver. I saw a 12V 75 watt bi-pin halogen bulb at Home Depot. I realize it would be underdriven at 10.8V, but do you think it would be any brighter than the overdriven 1185? The relationship between lumens and voltage/amperage/watts escapes me. I'm assuming it would draw more amps and I don't know if the HD could take it, otherwise I'd just try it and see.



You have to specify the exact bulb you are talking about. Most of the older forum members have looked at all the bulbs out there, and would recognize the brand, if not the model you are talking about. In general, it does not make sense to go picking a random bulb without knowing a number of factors, including who makes it, bulb life at a particular voltage, advertised bulb lumens at a particular voltage, etc.


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## LED BriCK (May 3, 2007)

LuxLuthor said:


> You have to specify the exact bulb you are talking about. Most of the older forum members have looked at all the bulbs out there, and would recognize the brand, if not the model you are talking about. In general, it does not make sense to go picking a random bulb without knowing a number of factors, including who makes it, bulb life at a particular voltage, advertised bulb lumens at a particular voltage, etc.


Actually, it's probably a dead-end. I looked on the Lowes and Home Depot websites, and the Sylvania looked familiar. I couldn't find a 75W, but if it's similar to this one, then I don't think there's any benefit.


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## Icebreak (May 4, 2007)

Thanks, Josey. Sometimes I forget and have to go look up a litho123 thread or go to the WA site and play with the re-rater.

LEDBriCK -

Maybe I can help with a couple of things. I still don't understand a lot of things so maybe that's why I keep coming back here to see what everybody is up to.

Volts x Amps = Watts

Sounds simple but it's not, at least to my brain. Then you have Mr. R (Resistance) muddling around in the batteries, switches and connections. I try to remember Ohm's law with the water tower analogy.

For HotWire mods we want to overdrive the lamp. Pushing more Volts into a lamp than what it is rated for can sometimes accomplish many things. It can actually increase the lumens per watt ratio which is increasing the efficiency of the whole system (flashlight). Of course it can make the lamp much brighter. I try to be careful throwing around the term brighter in case one of the Lighting PhDs is reading. Another fine thing overdriving does is increase the temperature of the filament. When the filament temperature is increased the color of the emitted light becomes whiter. 

If the light is whiter, then our target's image returns better information, not necessarily more information but usually so. Sometimes our brain's photo processor tells us that this is "brighter" than another light that is pushing out more photons at a lower color temperature.

Then there's the dynamic shape of the filament. I mention this to give you an example. I have an unpopular battery set-up for a popular lamp. I use 6 2/3 A cells in a Mag 3C to run a ROP. It puts out about 31 watts. In that same flashlight I can run a WA1111. It puts out about 26 watts. If I'm going to be in a field I want to use the ROP. If I'm going to be in the woods I want the WA1111. IOWs if I'm pretty sure my targets will be small I want the WA1111. It emits a tighter spot but more importantly it's just a little whiter than the ROP. The slightly better information my target is returning, or reflecting back, is valuable. So that 75 watt Home Depot lamp, underdriven, will be severely spanked by an optimally overdriven 26 watt Welch Allyn WA01111.

Useful intent should considered. What about the other end of the spectrum? If we all go camping we'll be amazed at how efficient and "bright" those battery operated Coleman 15 watt spiral fluorescent lanterns are. But, oh my, they emit such a high temperature light, bluish actually, that extended use can be irritating to our eyes. We might be better served by an original Coleman kerosene lantern.

Our charbroiled steaks and accompanying glasses of Merlot are going to look quite appealing illuminated by a big camp fire and a few fat candles on the table. The hungry Sasquatches and Bigfoots peering jelously at us from the woods can be staved off by our HotWires.


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## Merkava_4 (May 4, 2007)

Pardon me, but can someone please tell me what a mag 85 is? I suspect it's some kind of MAG-LITE, but when I go to their site, there's nothing of the sort.


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## Brozneo (May 4, 2007)

A Mag85 is a modified Maglite - basically its only using the Maglite body and the rest of the light is changed - that's the simple explanation.

I definately know that someone else could give a more detailed one!

PS. Maglite DO NOT make Mag85's.... They are custom made...


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## wooniris (May 4, 2007)

Thanks for the info.....but taking the following 

1185 (10.8 V) 1234 lumens
1331 (10.8 V) 806 lumens
1306 (10.8 V) 360

What's the advantage or disadvantage of picking one over the other apart from the number of lumen's? i.e. better hotspot?

Thanks

Chee Hong


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## LED BriCK (May 4, 2007)

Icebreak- Thanks for the great explanation! Alot of info there. I sometimes forget how important the whiteness of the light can be.


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## RickB (May 4, 2007)

wooniris said:


> Thanks for the info.....but taking the following
> 
> 1185 (10.8 V) 1234 lumens
> 1331 (10.8 V) 806 lumens
> ...



Chee Hong,

I think the biggest difference with the three you mention would be runtime. The higher-output bulbs use more power so the batteries will be depleted faster than with the lower-output bulbs.

However, you probably won't get (1234/360=3.4) 3.4 times the runtime with the 1306 than the 1185, because _usually_ higher-power bulbs are more efficient. That is, they put out more light for the amount of power they consume. Again, there's a caveat, which is that efficiency also depends on "overdrive" as Icebreak mentions above.

I don't know much about the specific bulbs you list, but there are other considerations in general when talking about bulbs:

-Output (measured in lumens)
-Whiteness (measured in CCT)
-Physical size/dimensions (including base style, e.g., PR base or bipin)
-Nominal or "intended" voltage
-Life expectancy
-Capability for overdrive and resistance to instaflash (related to life expectancy)
-Power draw (i.e., how many amps does it draw at a given voltage)
-Beam profile (related to filament size, shape and position)
-Of course, price and availability
-Some other things I can't think of

Have fun!

-Rick


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## Merkava_4 (May 4, 2007)

Brozneo said:


> A Mag85 is a modified Maglite - basically its only using the Maglite body and the rest of the light is changed - that's the simple explanation.



:thanks: 
Okay, thanks for clearing that up for me.


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## cutlerylover (May 4, 2007)

Brozneo said:


> PS. Maglite DO NOT make Mag85's.... They are custom made...


 

Yeah, thats why you will see people often write M*g85 or somethgin similar because maglite the company does not want people usign their name for these lights since they are fatre market mods, and they do not want their name beign used for something that they have no control over (and by control I mean quality, and how safe the product is) 

Its called a mag85 because it uses a mag body like Brozneo said, but thats about all thats made by maglite...Its just a housing for custom parts...

Stick around and read about them, if you cna afford to buy one or make it yourself you will LOVE them!!!!!!!!!!


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## waynejitsu (May 12, 2007)

What is a fatre mod?


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## barkingmad (May 12, 2007)

Maybe 'fatre' = 'after'


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## Icebreak (May 12, 2007)

after not fatre

You know, after market stuff instead of OEM stuff. I spell so poorly that sometimes misspellings often just ease right on by me. If a word has all the letters I may not notice at all.

Yuor meliage may vrey. 

***EDIT***

barkingmad answered it


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## jimjones3630 (May 12, 2007)

with li on batteries becoming available in different sizes the question I often ask myself is -Mag 85 what battery size/ run time light do I want?

3 C, 3D 9xAA in series, 9X1450 li 3px3s, 18xAA in 9sx2p tad longer in a than 3D in Elephant body with 120mm extension, or 18650x3px2s for even longer run time of a [email protected] 85.

Jim


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## mdocod (May 12, 2007)

> I saw a 12V 75 watt bi-pin halogen bulb at Home Depot. I realize it would be underdriven at 10.8V, but do you think it would be any brighter than the overdriven 1185?



The reason we choose lamps like the 1185, is because they happen to be very nicely overdriven with an easy to arrange number of cells in a maglight host. An 1185 is actually a 9.6V, 817 lumen, 30W bulb with about 50 hours of life. What we are doing is driving the heck out of it with 9NIMH cells at ~10.8V instead, it becomes a ~35W bulb, pushing around 1200 lumens, with about a 10-15 hour life instead. 

There is a direct inverse corrilation between efficiency, and bulb life. As you increase bulb life, you decrease efficiency, In a flashlight, that we want as bright as possible, we sacrifice bulb life (dropping down to around 10 hours) to maximize lumens/watt. 

The Sylvania halogen at the hardware store, Is probably rated for 12V, 75W, 2000 hours, ~1300 lumen. So as you can see. It takes 75W of power, to make 1300 lumens on a bulb with ~2000 hours life, whereas, you can make 1200 lumens with the 1185 with only 35W of power. If you took and ran that 75W Sylvania in your mag at 10.8V, the results would be even worse... it becomes a 65W bulb making only 910 lumen. however bulb life would jump up to about 7000 hours. Pointless for a flashlight.

So, in conclusion, if using the same battery pack you use to drive an 1185, the 75W halogen you saw at the hardware store would be even dimmer, and use almost twice as much power in doing so. Not to mention, the output would be sickly yellow in comparison to the white output of the overdriven 85.

However, if you setup a different battery pack, one that could drive that 12V 75W, at around 18V instead. It would become a ~140W bulb, pumpin out about 5000 bulb lumen's with a life of about 10-15 hours. Problem is, you would need a 5D host, room for 15 NIMH cells to do it. runtime would be about 10 minutes.


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## LED BriCK (May 12, 2007)

mdocod said:


> However, if you setup a different battery pack, one that could drive that 12V 75W, at around 18V instead. It would become a ~140W bulb, pumpin out about 5000 bulb lumen's with a life of about 10-15 hours. Problem is, you would need a 5D host, room for 15 NIMH cells to do it. runtime would be about 10 minutes.


Now we're talkin'!


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## LuxLuthor (May 13, 2007)

BTW, of all the WA bipin bulbs, my strong preference is the 1166. It is a beautiful white, practically no filament shadows, and I prefer its output way more than 1185. Only one small problem....it needs to be voltage controlled with a Hotdriver to about 12.7V....and we all know why that is a problem.


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## ah-see (May 13, 2007)

Where can you buy a WA01185 bulb from?


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## Brozneo (May 13, 2007)

CPF member litho123... He has a thread for bulbs to buy etc


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