# P91 with 2x RCR123A



## Fuchshp (Apr 4, 2016)

Good Morning

I'd like to use 9V bulbs in a Surefire 6Z and power it with 2x RCR123A.








Neither Surefire P91 nor Solarforce 9V turns on. The bulbs are ok with CR123A's. Do you have an idea why? Could it be the protection circuit of the batteries?


----------



## fivemega (Apr 4, 2016)

*If your batteries are protected, then it could be protection problem.
P91 pulls about 2.4 Amps and you need to use pair of IMR16340.*


----------



## nfetterly (Apr 4, 2016)

I use P91 with two imrs, very nice. Even better if you have AW 3 level soft start switch.


----------



## Fuchshp (Apr 4, 2016)

Ok, thank you. I bought two of these. 






N Fetterly, your name sounds very Swiss. Your anchestors probably emigrated from Switzerland.


----------



## Kestrel (Apr 4, 2016)

I just gotta say, a "Laser Products *Switzerland*" 6Z, very cool. I have seen a few "Germany"-engraved tailcaps posted but have never seen one of these before. :thumbsup:


----------



## archimedes (Apr 4, 2016)

Wow ... I would think a 6Z-CH should qualify for the @DaFABRICATA @Rat "Rare Surefire thread" !


----------



## MBentz (Apr 4, 2016)

Do want.


----------



## nfetterly (Apr 4, 2016)

Fuchshp said:


> N Fetterly, your name sounds very Swiss. Your anchestors probably emigrated from Switzerland.



PM sent. 

I bought up ~7 or ~8 P91s for $10 to $15 each 7 or 8 years ago for use in 6P (with AW 3 level soft start switch)

My other AW 3 level soft start is on a 3x18650 Leef body with WA1185 bulb.


----------



## scout24 (Apr 5, 2016)

Now I need to try a P91 with two IMR 18350's...

Edit- Works nice in my stealth Oveready black HAIII 6P. For some reason I thought the P90 was safe on two IMR's, but the P91 was not good for the bulb. Maybe the smaller cells are ok? Either way, nice and white for sure. Whiter than on three primaries. Looking forward to the last dog walk tonight after dark to see how it looks outdoors!


----------



## fivemega (Apr 5, 2016)

scout24 said:


> For some reason I thought the P90 was safe on two IMR's, but the P91 was not good for the bulb. Maybe the smaller cells are ok?


*That's true.
Smaller cells like 16340, 18350 and 14500 will drop voltage under heavy load therefore total voltage of 2 cells will be close to healthy operation of P91
Using larger cells like pair of 18650 or 26650 cells will put too much stress to bulb and tend to instaflash it.
If lower brightness of P90 and larger cells like pair of 26650 is OK for you, this combination will work for very long time per charge and excellent performance.*


----------



## scout24 (Apr 6, 2016)

Thanks for the explaination, Fivemega. The P90 on 2x18650 is a favorite of mine, great color temp and runtime. P91 is an entirely different animal though, even if runs are short on 2x18350's. Very impressive for a stock bulb.


----------



## nfetterly (Apr 6, 2016)

scout24 said:


> Looking forward to the last dog walk tonight after dark to see how it looks outdoors!



Unfortunately my mixed breed 55lb "Bernese Mountain" looking dog is 14.5 years old and doesn't do well on walks any more. Still a loveable dog in great humour that likes to keep my youngest (24 yr old) daughter up playing at 1 am. Not so many walks any more. Need to keep off CPF while drinking - need to stay away from custom B/S/T tonight for sure!

The P91 with 2 imrs (in 6P) rocks - wonder it I should try it in my TNC 2x26650 light with the AW soft start 3 level switch, it's got 14 trits on it, perfect for dog walking. Sounds like a plan for after I get my taxes finished up this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes !! Also I'll stay away from the MNKE 26650s, they DID NOT impress me. I had a high output Mac's triple triple that was "okay" on the MNKE IMRs, but on 36650s was a whole different world. And talking shut it down, change batteries and "holy crap is that the same light" different world.

Early day tomorrow, new equipment startup in a pulp & paper mill.


----------



## scout24 (Apr 6, 2016)

My "Big Dog" (130lb. Central Asian Shepard) makes it through the night after walking at 7:30-8:00, our little guy (Chihuahua) wants one last trip out at 10pm or so. I'm actually glad, since it's well dark by then all year. Looking forward to summer nights this year, as we didn't have him last summer. It's certainly tough as they get older...


----------



## scout24 (Apr 9, 2016)

Bump... I am sorry I missed the P91/ 2 small IMR's earlier in my time here. As nice as the free lumens of the P90 on rechargables is, I have a new favorite Incan setup in that P91. 12 minutes timed on a pair of 18350's brings the cells down to 3.9v, still well above empty. Output is a bit down at that point, but such a sweet beam! I trolled for a few backup P91's in and amongst the recent antique light kick I've been on, so I've got a few spares. Thanks for the setup info, folks!!!


----------



## recDNA (Apr 9, 2016)

I used my P91 for years with 2 x 18500 and ironically it blew shortly after I switched to 3 x CR123A. It was originally in a 9P I sold then in a Solarforce with extension. It's amazing how long it lasted. Sheer luck. Used to be able to buy those bulbs at a lot of brick and mortar stores. No more.


----------



## Timothybil (Apr 9, 2016)

Check out Lumens Factory. They still make a lot of D26 lamp assemblies, in four volt for a single Li-Ion, six volt for two primaries, and nine volt for three primaries or two Li-Ion cells. I swapped their HO6 for the P60 in my first G2 and was really pleased with the results. One hundred eighty lumens instead of sixty five, and still a fifty minute run time. Since then I have purchased several of their LED lamp assemblies and have had nothing but good results from all their lamps.


----------



## fivemega (Apr 10, 2016)

Timothybil said:


> One hundred eighty lumens instead of sixty five,


*If you mean HO6 has 3 times lumens of P60, you are wrong.
Take a close look at here:
http://www.lumensfactory.com/specification01.php
and here:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...urrent-draw-SF-amp-other-brands-incl-hotwires
As you see, 
LF Xenon HO-6 (5 Volts, 1.4 Amps=7 Watts) with 20 hours of life (rated at 160 Lumens) 
Vs
SF Xenon P60 (5 Volts, 1.13 Amps=5.65 Watts) with 30 hours of life (rated at 65 Lumens)
How do you explain it?
LF is rated at beginning of fresh cells.
SF is rated in average of one hour cells life.
LF is an excellent bulb but can not compare their rating with SF rating.*


----------



## novice (Apr 10, 2016)

Fivemega,
You have previously stated in other posts that 
(and I'm paraphrasing _and_ editing, which is why I am not doing a quotation. Please correct me if I'm wrong.):

2xAW18650 protected cells will work for the MN15 & MN20 9 volt lamps .
2xAW18650 protected cells will overdrive the MN16 & MN21 9 volt lamps.
3xAW18650 protected cells will overdrive the MN60 12 volt lamps.
3xAW18650 protected cells will severely overdrive the MN61 12 volt lamps.

Will AW IMR 26650 cells overdrive the above-mentioned lamps even more?


----------



## fivemega (Apr 10, 2016)

novice said:


> Will AW IMR 26650 cells overdrive the above-mentioned lamps even more?


*Since IMR cells will hold voltage better than Li-Cobalt, therefore using IMR cells will overdrive close to instaflash point.*


----------



## Swedpat (Apr 10, 2016)

Fivemega,

I like P90 and and have been using it in my bored 9P with 2x18500 and it has worked good so far. Therefore I thought it should be a good idea to run P91 with 2x18650 to get some decent runtime. But then I read in another thread that you tell 2x protected 18650 will severely overdrive it. 

1: Should I avoid even P90 with 2x18650?

2: Is it better to run P91 with 2xprotected 18500 than 2x18650?

3: Is there any other high brightness bulb(brighter than P90) suitable for 9P with extender and 2x18650?

Patric


----------



## nfetterly (Apr 10, 2016)

Swedpat said:


> Fivemega,
> 
> 3: Is there any other high brightness bulb(brighter than P90) suitable for 9P with extender and 2x18650?
> 
> Patric



this is where you get into the Fivemega bulb holders and custom bulbs. I've got a bunch of custom bulbs for the 2x li ion, believe five mega sold them initially (FM1794 - first link in #3 from Five Mega's post #23 below) and then gave permission to Carley (bulb manufacturer) to build them for someone else as they were initially designed built for five mega. The was a run of about 500, and then there was an issue in manufacturing that caused "very short life". Carley reran the bulbs. I had a custom Mag setup that Fivemega had custom bulbs made for, I tried (with approval from Fivemega) to get another run of the bulbs made, couldn't get enough folks signed up, someone tried after me.


----------



## bykfixer (Apr 10, 2016)

Such learnage here. 

Thanks!


----------



## fivemega (Apr 10, 2016)

Swedpat said:


> 1: Should I avoid even P90 with 2x18650?
> 
> 2: Is it better to run P91 with 2xprotected 18500 than 2x18650?
> 
> 3: Is there any other high brightness bulb(brighter than P90) suitable for 9P with extender and 2x18650?



*1- http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-18650-Cells&p=3563504&viewfull=1#post3563504

2- Protected Li-Cobalt batteries have more voltage drop and overall voltage to bulb is slightly less than IMR cells therefore less overdrive and longer bulb life.
Smaller cells are also better for bulb life.
However, some people prefer more power and brightness regardless of bulb life.

3- http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-FM-D26-Bi-Pin-socket-Reflector-Ready-to-ship
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?219828-G4-D26-SUNLIGHT-for-urefire
*


----------



## Swedpat (Apr 11, 2016)

Thanks Fivemega for the answer and information!


----------



## ampdude (Apr 21, 2016)

I've flashed a P91 before in two 18500's, I think they were IMR's, it was a long time ago though.


----------



## sween1911 (Apr 30, 2016)

Just wanna ask... is that the original head with plastic lens? Might want to upgrade to a newer glass, Pyrex or UCL or something. An unattended P91 will Shrinkydink your lens if you're not careful. 

(Shrinkydinks were a toy in US back in the 70's/80's. Little plastic sheets you could color, put them in the oven and they would shrivel up into little hard plastic ornaments you could hang on windows.)


----------



## bykfixer (Apr 30, 2016)

sween1911 said:


> Just wanna ask... is that the original head with plastic lens? Might want to upgrade to a newer glass, Pyrex or UCL or something. An unattended P91 will Shrinkydink your lens if you're not careful.
> 
> (Shrinkydinks were a toy in US back in the 70's/80's. Little plastic sheets you could color, put them in the oven and they would shrivel up into little hard plastic ornaments you could hang on windows.)



My wife does 'shrinky-dink' jewelry these days.
A sheet of clear, a sharpie, and a toaster oven is all it takes.

I still like watching it do the shrink part. 

Good analogy btw. And even better idea explaining said analogy. lol.


----------



## novice (May 1, 2016)

I have a new verb now! I managed to shrinky-dink the plastic lens in a G2/G3 bezel with a P90. Somehow I jammed the "temporary press" on, while pushing it in the pocket of a leather jacket. So it was stuck on, in a thick leather jacket from which I could not feel the heat while wearing it. No circulation of air to help with heat dissipation. Oops.


----------



## sween1911 (May 2, 2016)

novice said:


> I have a new verb now! I managed to shrinky-dink the plastic lens in a G2/G3 bezel with a P90. Somehow I jammed the "temporary press" on, while pushing it in the pocket of a leather jacket. So it was stuck on, in a thick leather jacket from which I could not feel the heat while wearing it. No circulation of air to help with heat dissipation. Oops.



Nice! Happens to the best of us. I talked to a Sherrif's deputy at a shooting match who told me some of his guys would sit in court and their 6P's on their duty belts would turn on and they wouldn't know until someone smelled something burning.


----------



## Timothybil (May 2, 2016)

novice said:


> I have a new verb now! I managed to shrinky-dink the plastic lens in a G2/G3 bezel with a P90. Somehow I jammed the "temporary press" on, while pushing it in the pocket of a leather jacket. So it was stuck on, in a thick leather jacket from which I could not feel the heat while wearing it. No circulation of air to help with heat dissipation. Oops.


Had that happen with my old pre-lockout G2 with the plastic lens. Didn't shrinky-dink but definitely bubbled. Got a borofloat lens from Flashlightlens and got a new lock-out tailcap from Surefire so it wouldn't happen again.


----------



## Fuchshp (May 21, 2016)

2x IMR 16340 works. Thank you for your help. 9V bulbs and especially P91 are really amazing out of a Surefire 2 cell light. I stocked up on bulbs in the meantime. 



> Wow ... I would think a 6Z-CH should qualify for the @DaFABRICATA @Rat "Rare Surefire thread" !



I have a Surefire 6Z-CH for sale over at the CPF Mall.


----------



## ampdude (May 21, 2016)

novice said:


> I have a new verb now! I managed to shrinky-dink the plastic lens in a G2/G3 bezel with a P90. Somehow I jammed the "temporary press" on, while pushing it in the pocket of a leather jacket. So it was stuck on, in a thick leather jacket from which I could not feel the heat while wearing it. No circulation of air to help with heat dissipation. Oops.



That was always a common problem with earlier Surefire's that had lexan lenses running any 9V bulb. The G3 came stock with a pyrex/borofloat lense, so that was never an issue with this light. I replace all of the lexan lenses on my G2's with hardened mineral glass.


----------

