# 24/7/365 Waterproof Neck Carry Light



## applevision (Dec 19, 2008)

***UPDATE! CHIP HAS KINDLY AGREED TO MAKE THE DREAM LIGHT! PLEASE SEE PAGE 9 STARTING WITH POST 268!***

Hey fellas,

I have a lot of nice lights that I enjoy--currently alternating between the Muyshondt Aeon, the Lummi Wee and the Fenix LD01 Stainless Steel on my keychain and loving all three. However, I find that around the house and on the weekends, I'm not always carrying my keys and am thus without a light. As a flashaholic, this causes me distress...






So, I had the idea of a neck-carry light that would be on me at all times... But, I don't want a lanyard carry, something a lot of folks talk about, because I would have to take this off at bedtime or to shower. I want a light that I can wear like my medal around my neck--24/7/365. In the shower, to sleep, to work, swimming the ocean, playing basketball--all the time, never take it off, never have to worry about it.

So it needs to be: 
-light and teeny-tiny, like a Photon/fauxton
-waterproof
-durable in general (LED, hence posted here rather than in gen flashlights)
-brightness, price and runtime are more negotiable

Does this light exist? Do folks do this? Am I crazy?



Wait--don't answer that last one!

Thanks in advance!





p.s. the lights I've mentioned: the Lummi Wee, the LD01, and the Aeon are all fantastic lights but I think that, for me, they are too big for easy neck carry. Even the tiny Wee with it's cylindrical shape is just too big for me. I think the form factor really has to be like a Photon-type light or similar...

Here is the most current chart where I've mapped out some of the contenders...




***TEMPORARY LIST OF FOLKS INTERESTED IN A CUSTOM TINY NECK LIGHT IN THE SAME SPIRIT OF THE NOW-DEFUNCT FIREFLI: TINY TITANIUM LIGHT THAT COULD EVEN ACTIVATE UNDERWATER AND BE TOTALLY WEARABLE ON A CHAIN 24/7/365*** 
(note: I'm not a maker or a seller--this is truly just an interested-in-the-idea list as I am talking with a few makers to see if they'd consider making something like this. Once it is even a true possibility, I/they will of course start a thread in the appropriate place. Mods, please let me know if you'd rather I keep this off-line or elsewhere.)
1. Applevision
2. Monkeyboab
3. Christoph
4. Kaichu Dento
5. Frenchyled
6. kramer5150
7. Trashman
8. moeman
9. OrlandoLights
10. Uriah 
11. ev13wt
12. balou
13. MKLight
14. Lumenz
15. Tixx
16. Zeruel
17. herrgurka
18. mrQQ
19. HKJ
20. scout24
21. Incidentalist
22. Phos4
23. JLEGG
24. Viper715
25. Creecher
26. fisk-king
27. fitzDaug
28. Skeptic
29. jch79
30. Glenn7
31. Wrencher
32. Mikellen
33. London Lad
34. wingnutLP
35. littlerm
36. D.B.
37. litetube
38. coyote
39. SomeoneSomewhere
40. JDest


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## davidt1 (Dec 19, 2008)

applevision said:


> Hey fellas,
> 
> I have a lot of nice lights that I enjoy--currently alternating between the Muyshondt Aeon, the Lummi Wee and the Fenix LD01 Stainless Steel on my keychain and loving all three. However, I find that around the house and on the weekends, I'm not always carrying my keys and am thus without a light. As a flashaholic, this causes me distress...
> 
> ...



I would think it's rather uncomfortable to sleep or swim in the ocean with anything around your neck. I attach a Streamlight Nano to my watch band, and it's with me whenever I wear my watch, which is most of the time.


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## sanchez (Dec 19, 2008)

> I want a light that I can wear like my medal around my neck--24/7/365. In the shower, to sleep, to work, swimming the ocean, playing basketball--all the time, never take it off, never have to worry about it.



If you plan to wear it and not take it off, how will you be able to use the light? I would find it very difficult to reach up to my neck and direct the light to where I need it. :thumbsdow Hopefully you meant detachable from your neck.


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## Yoda4561 (Dec 19, 2008)

A photon 2 almost works, the only real problem is saltwater, it's fine in fresh/tapwater. Just give it a spritz of deoxit or WD40 to prevent corrosion long term. Maybe an original photon 1 with a bit of sealant around the LED?? With the green LED and a 2032 it should last a very long time before you need to crack it open.


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## Sgt. LED (Dec 19, 2008)

:tinfoil:
I'm planning on having a P7 and a LI-poly batt surgically implanted just under the skin.
I will PM you the name and number of my doctor.


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## applevision (Dec 19, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> I would think it's rather uncomfortable to sleep or swim in the ocean with anything around your neck. I attach a Streamlight Nano to my watch band, and it's with me whenever I wear my watch, which is most of the time.



Thanks, *davidt1*, I read some stuff on the Nano and will seriously consider it. It does seem to be similar in size to the Wee but is cheap and thus more expendable than the pricier Wee... I agree that anything big around the neck would be uncomfortable. I do have a medal (about 2.5cm in diameter) around my neck at all times so am used to this. A small form-factor light like a Photon would be nearly invisible to me...



sanchez said:


> If you plan to wear it and not take it off, how will you be able to use the light? I would find it very difficult to reach up to my neck and direct the light to where I need it. :thumbsdow Hopefully you meant detachable from your neck.



*sanchez*, it's a good point--but imagining a Photon, I would simply grab the light at the end of the chain and squeeze it/activate it and then could point it fairly easily I think. I'm testing it right now with a regular fauxton and it seems reasonable/straightforward. Mind you, this is a super-sonic backup light and by no means a regular-duty light. But, I suppose some type of easy detachment would be cool as well.



Yoda4561 said:


> A photon 2 almost works, the only real problem is saltwater, it's fine in fresh/tapwater. Just give it a spritz of deoxit or WD40 to prevent corrosion long term. Maybe an original photon 1 with a bit of sealant around the LED?? With the green LED and a 2032 it should last a very long time before you need to crack it open.



Thanks *Yoda4561*, good point. In truth I don't go into the ocean much at all (living in Chicago these days...) so this might be THE suggestion. So the Photon 2 is water resistant? I could take a shower with it and not worry? 



Sgt. LED said:


> :tinfoil:
> I'm planning on having a P7 and a LI-poly batt surgically implanted just under the skin.
> I will PM you the name and number of my doctor.



Hee hee!


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## DonShock (Dec 19, 2008)

I wear a Ti Draco nearly 24/7 on a Ti chain with a Ti McGizmo clip so I can detach it if needed. The only time I take it off is to sleep, and usually when I shower. But I have worn it in the pool, so I know it handles submersion well. Small, light weight, durable, multi-level: what's not to like?


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## Lunal_Tic (Dec 19, 2008)

I have a La Petite Killer that I wear on a Ti neck chain. It's small and doesn't even look like a light when on the chain.

-LT


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## applevision (Dec 19, 2008)

DonShock said:


> I wear a Ti Draco nearly 24/7 on a Ti chain with a Ti McGizmo clip so I can detach it if needed. The only time I take it off is to sleep, and usually when I shower. But I have worn it in the pool, so I know it handles submersion well. Small, light weight, durable, multi-level: what's not to like?





Lunal_Tic said:


> I have a La Petite Killer that I wear on a Ti neck chain. It's small and doesn't even look like a light when on the chain.
> 
> -LT



You guys are the best! I am getting really excited about this! I have long lusted for a Draco... and may have to check it out! I also was very intrigued by the La Petite Killer... it is gorgeous! I need to read more about it... I know they are hard to come by in general... Thanks guys!!


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## mcmc (Dec 19, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, what medal is it that you edc?


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## Yoda4561 (Dec 19, 2008)

applevision said:


> Thanks *Yoda4561*, good point. In truth I don't go into the ocean much at all (living in Chicago these days...) so this might be THE suggestion. So the Photon 2 is water resistant? I could take a shower with it and not worry?
> 
> 
> 
> Hee hee!



I did so for 3 weeks after hurricane charley with my photon II set up as described. IIRC the estimated runtime on a green+2032 is nearly 1 full week constant on. We had no power but plenty of running water, so it was on a neck cord 24/7 and the light I used to get around the house at night and shower by, didn't want to risk any of the larger maglites in the shower since we needed them for other stuff. None of our other lights at the time were anything resembling water resistant enough. It was perfectly fine, all I did was twirl it around on the neck cord really fast to get the water out afterwards, no oil or anything. It functions 100% in fresh water. When I finally had to change the battery a year later it was a bit chalky and the contacts looked dirty as heck. A bit of plastic safe contact cleaner like most deoxit formulas or just a water displacing oil every few months to a year would have kept it pristine.


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## sanchez (Dec 19, 2008)

If it being around your neck works out for you, then I can't argue against it haha.

It would be nice to have one that is detachable, just in case.


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## applevision (Dec 19, 2008)

mcmc said:


> Just out of curiosity, what medal is it that you edc?



It's funny that you ask that... 

For over 20 years I wore a St. Peter medal of gold and a cornicello (a little Italian horn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornicello both given to me by my mom.

I never took them off for anything.

Then a few months ago I came across an interesting avatar here on cpf:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/member.php?u=54233
*Lux et veritas* has an interesting avatar that is the cross of St. Benedict:
*CSSML NDSMD* Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux *C S P B* Crux Sancti Patris Benedicti I thought this was really beautiful and told my mom about it--and voila! Next thing I knew, I now have a beautiful version of this medal in silver with a stainless steel necklace without any clasp. I love it! You can see a very similar one here: http://www.aquinasandmore.com/index.../FuseAction/store.displayArticle/article/103/

Thanks for asking! And thanks to *Lux et veritas*!


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## Lunal_Tic (Dec 19, 2008)

IIRC the Photon III or Photon Freedom are a bit more water resistant than the Photon II with the little thumbnail switch. But if it does go out just take it apart, dry it, put it back together and go.

-LT


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## Snow (Dec 19, 2008)

Applevision: I am surprised that you mention the Photon in your original post and later say that you think the Photon form factor is the way to go, but you haven't decided on one. I wonder why. I recently received an orange Photon Freedom for an early Christmas gift and I have been wearing it 24/7. The orange had a 2032 battery and a great runtime, is very dim on the lowest setting, and surprisingly bright on high. It meets all of the criteria you speak of, plus it is made by a great company in the US. It is also easily detached from the neck lanyard for use and comes with a clip for a key ring and a little magnetic clamp. This light is easily the best $12.95 a person can spend IMO. Give it a try in any color and I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## Christoph (Dec 19, 2008)

I have been wearing this for the last 5 years it always lights up and runs for a long time ZA 4 firefli






The only drawback is they are hard to find now I am glad i have a spare.
C


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## applevision (Dec 19, 2008)

Snow said:


> Applevision: I am surprised that you mention the Photon in your original post and later say that you think the Photon form factor is the way to go, but you haven't decided on one. I wonder why. I recently received an orange Photon Freedom for an early Christmas gift and I have been wearing it 24/7. The orange had a 2032 battery and a great runtime, is very dim on the lowest setting, and surprisingly bright on high. It meets all of the criteria you speak of, plus it is made by a great company in the US. It is also easily detached from the neck lanyard for use and comes with a clip for a key ring and a little magnetic clamp. This light is easily the best $12.95 a person can spend IMO. Give it a try in any color and I don't think you'll be disappointed.



*Snow*, you are right... I am guilty as charged. I do own a Photon Freedom which I love and carried on my keys for a long time... until I became a flashaholic and have since been on an insatiable quest for better/faster/stronger lights. I think my main concerns were two fold: 1) That it doesn't look so nice given the plastic and 2) that it might not be very waterproof... but now that I read this thread (thanks guys!) I am convinced that it could be among the best of the best for this task.



Christoph said:


> I have been wearing this for the last 5 years it always lights up and runs for a long time ZA 4 firefli
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Christoph*--this is a bolt from the blue! This is EXACTLY what was in my mind, as if you somehow grabbed it from my thoughts! What I love about this light is that it is tiny, looks very durable/waterproof/submersible and looks like a piece of jewelry! Now: Where the heck can I get one?!  And can you give us a mini review? I found the following info on it:
http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/firefli.htm

and

http://www.imagometrics.com/FLReviews/FireFli_1.htm

You guys rock! Thank you! :thumbsup:


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## Yoda4561 (Dec 19, 2008)

The freedom should be fine, but probably won't be as tolerant of water-based abuse due to the electronics. Then again maybe the pcb is coated and impervious to saltwater damage? I've never had one apart. The Photon 1 and 2 are just LEDs and a battery, not much to go wrong


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## Christoph (Dec 19, 2008)

I have searched and searched and have found none. JSB had some at one point I have not been able to get a hold of him to see if he has any left though. I would think someone somewhere has a stock of these they were sold in some mail order catalogs.I would pay more than list price for some if they could be found. the o ring on my first is finally failing and the replacement I found has a little too large of a cross section or the original was a square gasket that measured 5mm id X 7mm od.I had a Ti version made for me however it broke in half one day right behind the led.
Chris


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## applevision (Dec 19, 2008)

Hey guys-- do you think a custom light maker might be interested in taking up the mantle for this type of light?

Like McG or Lummi or Muyshondt? It wouldn't have to be too fancy... imagine something very similar (perhaps a little bit embellished...) made of SS or NS or Ti.. it could be called the Phial or the Sliver of Sun/SliverSun or something like that! I am fantasizing about McG using the Sun Drop LED in it to get this sliver of sunlight when all other lights fail... imagine this light...


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## timsmile (Dec 19, 2008)

I think streamlight keymate would be a nice choice


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## Snow (Dec 19, 2008)

applevision said:


> *Snow*, you are right... I am guilty as charged. I do own a Photon Freedom which I love and carried on my keys for a long time... until I became a flashaholic and have since been on an insatiable quest for better/faster/stronger lights. I think my main concerns were two fold: 1) That it doesn't look so nice given the plastic and 2) that it might not be very waterproof... but now that I read this thread (thanks guys!) I am convinced that it could be among the best of the best for this task.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yeah I'm not all that sure of the water resistance and it doesn't look fancy, but it's a great light. At the price, you might as well use it until you discover something better.


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## Illum (Dec 19, 2008)

applevision said:


> What I love about this light is that it is tiny, looks very durable/waterproof/submersible and looks like a piece of jewelry! Now: Where the heck can I get one?!



It was discontinued from advancedmart.com as early as 2006:candle:

I've been imitating seery's EDC of his Aeon in terms of 24/7/365 neck carry...its not all that bad really...just don't expect the light to look anywhere near shiny


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## richardcpf (Dec 19, 2008)

There are watches whith a bright EL panel, and the light it emits is bright enough under total darkness and having night adapted sight.


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## greenLED (Dec 19, 2008)

fancy: Modamag Drake
run-of-the-mill: Photon, ArcAAA, or Fenix E01


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## Bogie (Dec 20, 2008)

I have worn a CMG Infinity on a paracord loop with a Surefire clip everyday since they came out.


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## applevision (Dec 20, 2008)

Thank you guys so much!

Fantastic suggestions all around, I am truly grateful.

*richardCPF *made a great point about the watch EL panel--while I totally agree and do use my watch in this manner sometimes (and my Centro phone), but I don't always have my watch on either... so for me, it wouldn't quite cut the mustard.

*timsmile* that Streamlight Keymate is cool, but I think it's a bit bigger than I wanted for this task; thank you for the suggestion.

In my explorations, I have concluded a few things:

1. The Photon is an excellent suggestion; I am using it now and appreciating it in a whole new way! Thanks so much, *Snow*!

2. The Drake is a gorgeous light that I lust for, *greenLED*. Like my Lummi Wee (which I actually purchased over the Drake b/c it is a tiny bit shorter), however, it is a teensy tiny bit too big for this role. On my keychain the Wee is basically invisible but on my neck I still am aware of it and it makes a little bump in a t-shirt, so for me it's just not quite right... though I love the light and want to pick one up someday!

3. Someone recommended that I check out a very interesting product: 





This is a neat little mod of a tiny totally submersible fishing light which can be found here:
http://www.rod-n-bobbs.com/index.php?page=prodView&pid=108 
(Note: this was featured in another forum but the guy who had this idea was pretty brilliant so I want to give proper respect, gratitude and credit where credit is due; that thread can be found here: http://edcforums.com/index.php?topic=13891.0 (Thanks so much *sed6*!)

I want to order some and check them out and then will let you guys know. I may do the heat-shrink trick to a bobby pin (or small part of a pin) as suggested in the thread so that I can attach it to the chain... Very cool!!

4. I am going to have to buy a La Petite Killer now as I am in love with it, no thanks to *Lunal_tic*. :duh2: I'm not sure, but it may be small enough to do this role with some real elegance... I will, of course, report fully on this matter!

5. *Christoph*, however, changed my entire view of everything with that god-forsaken ZA 4 firefli. In so many ways this is _exactly_ what I want and need for this role. If I could make any changes, it would only be that the LED was recessed even a tiny bit to help protect it... and, well, that it were actually available!

So where does this leave me? I want a Drake, I'm buying a La Petite Killer, I'm going to try that crazy fishing teeny-tiny light... but I long for something like the ZA 4 firefli. If only someone could make something like it--I'll bet it wouldn't be too hard to custom make it... machined out of SS... I'd pay $200 if it were done really well and if I knew it were very durable... Any takers?!

Thanks to all! Any more suggestions are super-welcome. I'm fascinated by this most intimate way of carrying a light.


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## applevision (Dec 21, 2008)

Hey team,

Just wanted to update with ANOTHER CONTENDER:






Was in Tar-zhay today and stumbled upon this tiny little fella as part of an Eddie Bauer pocket knife/light combo package (it's the one all the way to the left... followed by (from L to R): the Lummi Wee, the Muyshondt Aeon and the Fenix LD01 SS.

It's really very cute and uses 4 little button-cell batts, but is fairly bright--a bit brighter than a fresh fauxton, actually and a little bit on the blue side, but still a nice beam. 

The kicker here is that it is really nice and tiny and very much the form factor I have been seeking--tiny enough to be a pendant-type neck light without bulging in a shirt. And the price was unbeatable--that plus a cute Swiss-army-knife tool was $10. 

Questions: is this thing waterproof? Does anyone know the original manufacturer? Here is a link to the product: http://www.target.com/Eddie-Bauer-Classic-Multitool-Light/dp/B0012E55J4/sr=1-13/qid=1229843784/ref=sr_1_13/184-8482976-1456621?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=1038576&rank=price&rh=k%3Aeddie%20bauer&page=1

It's very close to just what I want to wear around my neck... I still long for the firefli* and its amazing zinc-air batteries, and would love something made by someone I trust, but this could be the one for now... Thoughts?

*PS: As a comparison to the firefli in size:




.............Length..........Diameter......................................Volume:



*
*Firefli......38mm............7mm...............................................1462mm^3
Eddie......50mm............10mm.............................................3926mm^3
Fauxton...30mm............23mm x ~7mm (wide x thick)..........~4830mm^3 (using rectangular prism--this is a bit too high)
Wee........34mm............15mm.............................................6007mm^3
Nano.......37mm............13mm.............................................4910mm^3
LaPetit.....23.25mm.......14.25mm.........................................3681mm^3
Mako.......68mm............13mm.............................................9024mm^3

This sounds like a small difference, but, when you think about it, the Eddie is 24% longer and 30% wider than the Firefli!


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## deranged_coder (Dec 21, 2008)

applevision said:


> Questions: is this thing waterproof? Does anyone know the original manufacturer? Here is a link to the product: http://www.target.com/Eddie-Bauer-Classic-Multitool-Light/dp/B0012E55J4/sr=1-13/qid=1229843784/ref=sr_1_13/184-8482976-1456621?ie=UTF8&index=target&field-browse=1038576&rank=price&rh=k%3Aeddie%20bauer&page=1



I think the original manufacturer is Coast. Try doing a google search for "Coast V9". :thinking: 

+1 on the Streamlight Nanolight. I just got my hands on one of those today and it's amazingly tiny :thumbsup: :


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## sabre7 (Dec 21, 2008)

The Photon products are only water resistant, not waterproof. You will have to buy two 2016 replacement batteries if you get the white led, you can't use one 2032 battery in them for longer runtime.


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## davidt1 (Dec 21, 2008)

deranged_coder said:


> I think the original manufacturer is Coast. Try doing a google search for "Coast V9". :thinking:
> 
> +1 on the Streamlight Nanolight. I just got my hands on one of those today and it's amazingly tiny :thumbsup: :



I notice you have a Fenix E01. Can you tell me how the Nano and the E01 compare in brightness, beam (wide/narrow) and throw? Also, how does it compare to the Fenix LD01 in 10 lm mode? Thanks.


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## supes (Dec 21, 2008)

I've also been thinking about an all the time EDC small enough to be tolerable for me. 

I would also throw Enrique's Mako AAA (Ti) light into the mix. It looks to be a low 2 stage LED light with a great concentration on low light indoor navigation. I wish there were some beamshots of the "nice" cree 5mm.


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## applevision (Dec 21, 2008)

deranged_coder said:


> I think the original manufacturer is Coast. Try doing a google search for "Coast V9". :thinking:
> 
> +1 on the Streamlight Nanolight. I just got my hands on one of those today and it's amazingly tiny :thumbsup: :





sabre7 said:


> The Photon products are only water resistant, not waterproof. You will have to buy two 2016 replacement batteries if you get the white led, you can't use one 2032 battery in them for longer runtime.



Thanks guys, so much.

So it seems that the Coast V9 is indeed not waterproof or resistant... so it is out of the running.

The Nanolight is very intriguing to me. It is very inexpensive so I may have to check one out.

I still am hoping a custom light maker will consider a little project like this... or someone finds a stash of the old FireFli lights! 

The Mako could be really sweet and I do want to check it out... it's: 13mm in diameter and 68mm long per Muyshondt. I will update the chart I made and think on this...


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## deranged_coder (Dec 22, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> I notice you have a Fenix E01. Can you tell me how the Nano and the E01 compare in brightness, beam (wide/narrow) and throw? Also, how does it compare to the Fenix LD01 in 10 lm mode? Thanks.



They seem comparable in brightness and beam to me. Here is a beamshot of the three:


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## davidt1 (Dec 22, 2008)

d_c,

Thanks. That little Nano is not bad. Did you keep them on long enough to notice any drop off in brightness in the Nano? When I tested my Nano, the initial "Wow, this little light is really bright" brightness drecreased after 40 minutes. I am deciding between the Fenix E01 and the Streamlight Microstream. The Microstream is brighter at 20 lumens at the expense of runtime and size (bigger). The E01 is 10 lumens, but is smaller and runs longer. Is there a noticeable difference between 10 lumens and 20 lumens?


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## fitzDaug (Dec 22, 2008)

Hey *applevision*,

You might want to look at this Teenie Burner and see if you might be interested.

http://www.laserpointerforums.com/forums/YaBB.pl?num=1225675954

He may be able to build you another one.

Let us know.


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## deranged_coder (Dec 22, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> d_c,
> 
> Thanks. That little Nano is not bad. Did you keep them on long enough to notice any drop off in brightness in the Nano? When I tested my Nano, the initial "Wow, this little light is really bright" brightness drecreased after 40 minutes. I am deciding between the Fenix E01 and the Streamlight Microstream. The Microstream is brighter at 20 lumens at the expense of runtime and size (bigger). The E01 is 10 lumens, but is smaller and runs longer. Is there a noticeable difference between 10 lumens and 20 lumens?



Nope, I don't do runtime graphs or anything like that. After I got it and toyed with it for a couple of minutes, I pressed it into duty and it is now neck carried.

As far as whether or not the difference between 10 and 20 lumens is perceptible, I am not 100% sure but I suspect there will be some perceptible difference. However, the 20 lumen light will not look twice as bright as the 10 lumen light. Just the way our eyes perceive differences in brightness.


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## Illum (Dec 22, 2008)

deranged_coder said:


> Nope, I don't do runtime graphs or anything like that. After I got it and toyed with it for a couple of minutes, I pressed it into duty and it is now neck carried.



Perhaps you should send it to bigwaffles:nana:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/216438


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## applevision (Dec 22, 2008)

fitzDaug said:


> Hey *applevision*,
> 
> You might want to look at this Teenie Burner and see if you might be interested.
> 
> ...



Hey *fitzDaug*, thanks. That is one cool looking laser. The size is pretty good but I think that the Wee is a bit smaller... I'm not sure about it's water resistance and I actually couldn't tell much about the host light from the post. I like lasers but I'm willing to trade some throw for some flood here :naughty:...


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## applevision (Dec 22, 2008)

davidt1 said:


> d_c,
> 
> Thanks. That little Nano is not bad. Did you keep them on long enough to notice any drop off in brightness in the Nano? When I tested my Nano, the initial "Wow, this little light is really bright" brightness drecreased after 40 minutes. I am deciding between the Fenix E01 and the Streamlight Microstream. The Microstream is brighter at 20 lumens at the expense of runtime and size (bigger). The E01 is 10 lumens, but is smaller and runs longer. Is there a noticeable difference between 10 lumens and 20 lumens?



Hey *davidt1*, not sure if I read you correctly, but if you are looking for something small like the E01 but brighter, by golly you have to check out the LD01! It's essentially the exact size of the E01 but puts out 80 lumens! It's a bit more $$$ but I started with the venerable E01 on my keychain and once I saw an LD01, I was hooked! Brighter, whiter and with multiple levels to chose from, IMHO the LD01 is the finest keychain light in the land... and I've had a few of 'em! (the gorgeous and powerful Muyshondt Aeon: lovable in every way but a little hard to activate one-handed; the Lummi Wee: gorgeous, bright and awe-inspiring, the pure flood beam has failed me when I needed a bit of throw). Not to get off topic here... just wanted to interject that. :thumbsup:


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## applevision (Dec 22, 2008)

And, sorry to triple-post in a row, but I wanted to just update folks on the progress of the thread: finding the 24/7/365 Waterproof Neck Carry Light:

The Firefli...has become my obsession! I have a B/S/T (Buy/Sell/Trade) post up on Candlepowerforums to see in anyone can get them. But it's looking unlikely. Seems like a few folks hoarded them in 2006 when they went out of business and, though they seem really durable, folks have messaged me about the fact that they have been looking for a few years now without luck... I even contacted a few business who used to carry them... no luck so far.

Someone brought up the idea of modding one of these carabiner lights:






Though when I checked the stats, the numbers were not quite as favorable:

...............Length..........Diameter...................Volume:
Firefli........38mm............7mm......................1462mm^3
Eddie........50mm............10mm.....................3926mm^3
Wee..........34mm............15mm.....................6007mm^3
Nano.........37mm............13mm.....................4910mm^3
LaPetit.......23.25mm.......14.25mm.................3681mm^3
Mako.........68mm............13mm......................9024mm^3
*Carabiner...92mm..........12.7mm......................N/A*

So, even if we sawed off a bit of the back, the Eddie Bauer one is still a bit smaller... and I'm not sure how durable/waterproof this one is... but it's certainly an exciting line of thinking! 


Someone also suggested a GLO-TOOB and I am a HUGE fan of the Glo-toobs! I love my standard size and even have a CR123 size as well which I like but less-so since it is bulkier. Yes, I think in many ways this is really what I want...a little tiny invicible light... but I want it in a teeny-tiny size so that I could string it up on my necklace next to my medal and not think about it. I'm at least a medium-sized-guy so I _could_ wear something bigger and pull it off, but I do EDC the Muyshondt Aeon on my keychain (alternating with the Lummi Wee and the Fenix LD01--love them all, favor the Fenix for the true EDC), and so I'm looking almost for a "hidden light." 

For this project, I've kind of gotten my heart set on a Firefli or it's spiritual successor (custom or otherwise) now... my dream would be a titanium or SS custom job that could even activate underwater (mini dive light! the ultimate James Bond toy!). My fantasy is basically to have a phial of Galadriel: "I give you the light of Eärendil, our most beloved star. May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out."


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## Norm (Dec 22, 2008)

Maybe Peak LED Solutions Matterhorn Stainless Steel 1 LED


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## applevision (Dec 23, 2008)

Norm said:


> Maybe Peak LED Solutions Matterhorn Stainless Steel 1 LED



Thanks *Norm*, it's a beautiful light, but too big methinks. The AAA size is perfect for lanyard carry, but this would be for a regular stainless steel necklace type situation. My favorite image is from *Christoph*:





This is _exactly_ how I want to carry it. :twothumbs


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## cy (Dec 23, 2008)

EDC a Li14430/CR2 on a neck lanyard for several years ... very dependable! 

now I've gone backwards... EDC via neck lanyard a Titan with a custom ti lanyard attachment... 

the best lanyard ever made for 7x24 EDC flashlight duties was included on mil spec countycomm infinity ultra G



applevision said:


> Hey guys-- do you think a custom light maker might be interested in taking up the mantle for this type of light?


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## applevision (Dec 25, 2008)

cy said:


> EDC a Li14430/CR2 on a neck lanyard for several years ... very dependable!
> 
> now I've gone backwards... EDC via neck lanyard a Titan with a custom ti lanyard attachment...
> 
> the best lanyard ever made for 7x24 EDC flashlight duties was included on mil spec countycomm infinity ultra G



Thanks *cy*, good tips! The Titan is a gorgeous light... it's a bit bigger than what I had in mind, but I am very tempted to check it out in its own right!


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## cy (Dec 25, 2008)

put out a WTB and you will find those elusive Ultra G lanyards... bought the last 6 arewetherdad had 8 months back for $3 ea..

not too thick... nor too light... with reflective specks..just rite! with a break away feature... don't EDC any lanyard without a breakaway feature.

IMHO Titan has to be modded before you can EDC it 7x24.... original attachment is unreliable... at some point, release will align up just rite and you possibly will loose your Titan... mine came off twice smacking concrete once.. was super lucky I didn't loose my Titan.


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## applevision (Dec 25, 2008)

Hey Guys,

I am starting to shop around with some custom light makers to see if anyone would be interested in producing a small run (or larger run!) of this type of light for us. No guarantees of course, but here's to hoping!

Guys, what's the best way for me to do this? Here? In the Group Buy area? Or elsewhere?

Here's my draft, please let me know how I could make it better!:wave:
--
I am gathering a list of folks interested in purchasing a custom-made light in the spirit of the ZA-4 FireFli Flashlight:





(more info can be found here:
http://www.imagometrics.com/FLReviews/FireFli_1.htm)

Basically this is a super-tiny (smaller than pretty much any other production light) that is wearable to the max. My ideal way to carry it would be on a necklace 24/7/365 making it pretty much the ultimate backup-for-your-backup light. If you were swimming at night and needed light, it'd be there. If you were in the shower and the power went out, it'd be there. If you were stuck somewhere dark and dangerous and your main light was lost and your backup just died, it'd be there until the very end.

The FireFli existed a few years back but now is pretty much impossible to find. Other lights such as the Lummi Wee, the La Petit Killer and the Drake are phenomenal but still one size group above this most-miniscule light. 

If there is enough interest, I am hoping to ask a custom light maker to consdier this project for us.

Ideal features:
-Tiny as tiny can be (on the order of 40mm long x 7-10 mm in diameter)
-Runtime >>> brightness as this is the end of the world light/backup of backup. The old FireFli had something like 50 hours to 50% intensity and 68 hours overall (see: http://ledmuseum.candlepower.us/firefli.htm).
-Durable and waterproof (so you can wear it while swimming and in the shower)
-Titanium would be awesome.
-Price would ideally be under $100 to make it reasonable, but I know that I'd pay more if it were done just right!
--

Thoughts?

Many thanks!!


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## greenLED (Dec 25, 2008)

applevision said:


> Guys, what's the best way for me to do this? Here? In the Group Buy area? Or elsewhere?
> 
> (more info can be found here:
> http://www.imagometrics.com/FLReviews/FireFli_1.htm)



Group Buy, Custom & Modified.

 ...and I thought Aten Imago's quasi-informational site would've sunk into oblivion by now.


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 25, 2008)

Sgt. LED said:


> :tinfoil:
> I'm planning on having a P7 and a LI-poly batt surgically implanted just under the skin.


 
Will this have a forward or reverse clickie? Will it be arranged so you can arc your wrist backward, touch the palm of your hand with your middle finger, and shoot a beam of light, just like Spidey Man's web?


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## ruriimasu (Dec 26, 2008)

hi applevision

this is not firefli and i never owned the firefli before. but the size and looks maybe similar? Cool Blue Light LED Keychain (4*AG3)

*[hotlinked image removed - please read Rule 3. - DM51]*


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## applevision (Dec 27, 2008)

ruriimasu said:


> hi applevision
> 
> this is not firefli and i never owned the firefli before. but the size and looks maybe similar? Cool Blue Light LED Keychain (4*AG3)



Hey *ruriimasu*, thanks so much. That is _very_ much the type of light I am looking for! The main thing is that with the kind of button it has for activation, it is unlikely to be water resistant. I have a similar light from Coast (see page 1 of this thread for a photo) that is again, almost just right, but not water resistant... also, I am worried about the durability of these little cheapies in general... and, for my dream light, I'm hoping for it to be even smaller still! I am talking with a custom light maker and he is enthuasiastic about doing this project! I will keep you posted!

Thanks!


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## ruriimasu (Dec 28, 2008)

maybe you can talk to Rob from lummi. he has a prototype of a LED ring (which i am sure must be waterproof). i tried to talk him into selling it, but he doesnt have any intention of doing so.. :mecry:


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## cy (Dec 28, 2008)

Arc AAA was probably the original 7x24 carry light and still works well in that role.

equally important is the lanyard used... body salts are corrosive... light size naturally plays a part. 

have EDC'd a light on a neck lanyard for 4+ years... Started with Arc AAA, then original Firefly, then Li14430/CR2... now Titan. 

the BEST lanyard hands down... came on Infinity Ultra G...many times I'd buy the Infinity light just to get the lanyard.


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## applevision (Dec 28, 2008)

cy said:


> Arc AAA was probably the original 7x24 carry light and still works well in that role.
> 
> equally important is the lanyard used... body salts are corrosive... light size naturally plays a part.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much *cy*. Very good info. Although my ideal way to carry my "dream" light would be on a stainless steel necklace, as one would carry a medal or a pendant. Leather strap could also work, I suppose, and a thin lanyard like the one you've shown could also work nicely, I think. What is the secret of why it is so good? Is it made from 550 Paracord? Is it the clasp? I'm curious about it and will heed your advice to try to obtain one as well.

Many thanks!


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## cy (Dec 29, 2008)

nope.. not paracord... that'd be similar to surefire lanyards, which are too thick. clasp is same as surefire, it's a breakaway... wouldn't ever use a lanyard without a breakaway. 

dog tag stainless chains work well too... but my preference is still the Ultra G slim lanyards. 
all I can tell you is... these particular lanyards have stood the test of time. you may not like em at all.... but they work well for me. 



applevision said:


> Thanks so much *cy*. Very good info. Although my ideal way to carry my "dream" light would be on a stainless steel necklace, as one would carry a medal or a pendant. Leather strap could also work, I suppose, and a thin lanyard like the one you've shown could also work nicely, I think. What is the secret of why it is so good? Is it made from 550 Paracord? Is it the clasp? I'm curious about it and will heed your advice to try to obtain one as well.
> 
> Many thanks!


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## Bogie (Dec 29, 2008)

I use 550 cord but you could use Spectra cord which is 3mm hold the ends together with a little heat shrink tubing and it will break away, use clip of choice for light.


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## bmstrong (Dec 30, 2008)

Mako!


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## Skeptic (Dec 30, 2008)

I have two Makos on order. Looking forward to them. One is a gift and one is for me. 

I think it fits a lot of my criteria, but I am not looking at a neck carry. It will probably be in my coin pocket in my jeans. But, it will probably be with me all the time no matter what I am wearing.


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## applevision (Dec 30, 2008)

ruriimasu said:


> maybe you can talk to Rob from lummi. he has a prototype of a LED ring (which i am sure must be waterproof). i tried to talk him into selling it, but he doesnt have any intention of doing so.. :mecry:



Hey *ruriimasu*! Thank you for the great suggestion! I'm ON IT.

















bmstrong said:


> Mako!





Skeptic said:


> I have two Makos on order. Looking forward to them. One is a gift and one is for me.
> 
> I think it fits a lot of my criteria, but I am not looking at a neck carry. It will probably be in my coin pocket in my jeans. But, it will probably be with me all the time no matter what I am wearing.



Thanks *bmstrong *and *Skeptic*; I am a fan of the Mako and a big fan of Muyshondt and am very interested in this light. It is, however, fairly large by the standards of these super tiny lights: 68mm x 13mm. My ideal size would be around 30mm x 7 mm! Super tiny, no doubt, but I truly want it pendant-sized.


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## applevision (Jan 1, 2009)

*Updated Photo with a "prototype" neck carry...*

Hey guys, I wanted to update with a photo and a brief report of 24/7 neck carry...

So I've been carrying a fauxton around my neck for a few days now, attached directly to a stainless steel chain that I do not ever remove, along with my medal. 

The fauxton is doing a great job and is holding up well to showers and daily wear. It is light, comfortable and not noticeable through clothes at all. 

It is _ridiculously_ helpful!! It comes in handy so much more than I ever thought it would or could! Some recent examples in the past few days:
-Getting up to check on the little guy at night: usually I fumble around for my glasses and have dropped them MANY times in the past; I often step on a toy or book on the floor along the way which ranges from annoying to dangerous--using this little bugger has changed all that! Now I just do a tiny pulse to find my glasses and a tiny light along the way! To keep it REALLY dim, I actuate it _inside_ of my shirt which is so cool and gives plenty of light to navigate a pitch black house by.

-Going downstairs at night for midnight snacks... Basically, same scenario as above--sometimes I grab my bigger light from my desk, but frequently I forget and have to carefully navigate downstairs in the dark since the stair light can wake up the boy (he refuses to let us fully close the door). This has been fantastic! 

-Took a late shower and was trying to find my socks--just lit up a tiny patch of light instead of overheads--no need to find a light on the desk, it was on my neck! 

-Was in the garage without my keys putting on new windshield wipers--my keys hold my Fenix LD01 so that was not at my side--I dropped a little piece and BING! I could light up under the car to see it!

In sum, there is no further doubt that this is an amazing thing. To have light as part of you at all times is really the next level. Keychain carry and neck lanyard carry can be very close, but I think most folks don't truly have these on 24/7--and even if they do, it's sort of uncomfortable for most of the lights out there that I've seen. With this, I'd say we're entering new territory.

This raises the question: so why do a custom light then? Is not the search ended with the Photon/fauxton? Well, there are two reasons:
1. I'd like the highest quality light for this most intimate task.
2. I'd like the light to look good on my neck. As you can see from the photos, it's a little bit... how shall I put it... _inelegant_. For an EDC of this nature, I'd like it to look really nice, like a piece of jewelry if possible. 






For these reasons, I have asked a custom designer to think about this project. And I hope folks are interested as well!

All the best and Happy New Year!


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## kramer5150 (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks for sharing... I frequently wear a gerber tempo on a surefire lanyard. Although its a little too heavy for 24/7. Although it is comfy to wear under my shirt while I sleep. Its great for camping as well as all the things you already mentioned.




Sometimes I wear it up high like this...




:twothumbs


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## applevision (Jan 2, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> Thanks for sharing... I frequently wear a gerber tempo on a surefire lanyard. Although its a little too heavy for 24/7. Although it is comfy to wear under my shirt while I sleep. Its great for camping as well as all the things you already mentioned.
> :twothumbs



Hey *kramer5150*, that's awesome! You are ahead of the curve and that's a nice little light. 

If you could make changes to the tempo (even major ones like size/shape/weight, etc) what would they be? Would you also end up with a light like the FireFli?


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## kramer5150 (Jan 2, 2009)

They really don't make a "perfect" 1AAA low lumen task light that fits all my needs... sigh. Here's my cheers and jeers about the tempo.

Cheers
-Standard AAA battery type (I get these for free at work)
-Conservatively rated runtime and accurate Lumen output specs on the packaging (something that nearly EVERY chinese light gets wrong).
-5~6 hours of regulated output from an alkaline, + 1-2 more candle hours as cell depletes.
-Lanyard hole is centered at the end of the light, PERFECT for neck-carry.
-6 Floody lumens is perfect for my needs, and even too bright at times. Easily lights up a large room or tent with night dilated vision.
-Light
-water resistant
-I think its a Nichia CS, a GS would be a nice upgrade.
-Nice twist switch engagement, firm and not sloppy or spongy feeling, with GOOD thread length. It takes a good 5-6 turns to take the tailcap off.
-Good color choice IMHO.
-Cheap ($10) and B&M availability at REI and some Sports Authority stores.

Jeers
-Anodize is very thin and scratches easily
-I would prefer a twistie-head with solid body tube, rather than a tailcap twistie.
-Better emitter centering quality form light to light. I had to take my first one back because the LED aim was WAY off... very annoying IMHO. Because of this I have a hard time recommending it as a www purchase. You need to inspect the led for centering in person.
-Bezel opening could be open wider to obstruct less light, like the ultra infinity.
-"reflector" area could be brushed or better yet stainless like the Inova X1 or Leatherman Serach light.
-Glass window would be nice to protect LED and further enhance water resistance.
-2 O-rings around the tailcap instead of just one to improve water resistance.
-Smaller overall length would be a bonus, its about the size of a AA battery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nHrLU6VfN4


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## kramer5150 (Jan 2, 2009)

applevision said:


> Hey *kramer5150*....Would you also end up with a light like the FireFli?



Actually the firefly would come close to my ideal light if it had a glass lens to protect the LED.


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## CARNAL1 (Jan 2, 2009)

I carry the ARC AAA-P (CS) on my neck lanyard. It is tough, light, and waterproof. The lanyard I use is this one http://www.brightguy.com/products/Neck_Lanyard.php. It is light and you don't even know that you're wearing it until you need it. Good luck with your search.

H.D.T. = Happy Dark Trails


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## applevision (Jan 2, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> Actually the firefly would come close to my ideal light if it had a glass lens to protect the LED.



Thanks--that's good stuff.

I will add you to the interest list if that is okay. (Not only is it non-binding in any way, there is not even a prototype of a project yet--but let me know if you want me to take your name off.)


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## kramer5150 (Jan 2, 2009)

applevision said:


> Thanks--that's good stuff.
> 
> I will add you to the interest list if that is okay. (Not only is it non-binding in any way, there is not even a prototype of a project yet--but let me know if you want me to take your name off.)



thats just fine... thanks... FWIW I have a Fenix E01 on order too


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## applevision (Jan 3, 2009)

CARNAL1 said:


> I carry the ARC AAA-P (CS) on my neck lanyard. It is tough, light, and waterproof. The lanyard I use is this one http://www.brightguy.com/products/Neck_Lanyard.php. It is light and you don't even know that you're wearing it until you need it. Good luck with your search.
> 
> H.D.T. = Happy Dark Trails



Thanks *CARNAL1*, I've always been a fan of the ARC lights. 

Good news update: I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by some kind CPFers! I have a FireFli on the way! I am super-excited and will post some thoughts about it asap. In the meantime... I am still hoping to take this really amazing little idea and move it forward still... so I will keep y'all posted here...

:twothumbs


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## moeman (Jan 3, 2009)

add me to your list applevision, please...

i had a firefli for years, but i ended up sending it to someone in Argentina and have missed it since.

i really dont know why they stopped making them. they were great!


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## applevision (Jan 3, 2009)

moeman said:


> add me to your list applevision, please...
> 
> i had a firefli for years, but i ended up sending it to someone in Argentina and have missed it since.
> 
> i really dont know why they stopped making them. they were great!



Added! Thanks, *moeman*. The more I walk around wearing a light at all times, the more I am realizing an entire new world of possibility. I don't mean to be melodramatic, but this is pretty awesome stuff!


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## OrlandoLights (Jan 3, 2009)

A worthy quest, interesting to read about and easy to identify with. If you find a maker, count me in.


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## todo (Jan 3, 2009)

I've been wearing a neck light 24/7 for the past 3 years. It started with photon freedoms then a year with a Rex light which is great and perfect size. But a few weeks ago decided that since I'm so acclimated to having a light around my neck why not try for something a bit bigger but also more usefull. Keeping in mind that thin is in when it comes to neck lights, IMO single AAA battery size is max for a light your gonna carry 24/7 under shirt. Anything thicker than that and its gonna show and also be uncomfortable.

So for the last 3 weeks I've been carrying a LODce with a lithium. It took a bit to get used to the bigger than photon size light but I keep it under my shirt and its completly invisisible, and I no longer know its there until I need it. The only time I remove it is in the morning when I shower, yes its waterproof but I dont like the wet lanyard. Other than that its on 24/7... yes I sleep with it on.

The advantages of the LOD are the lithium battery which last for weeks and are light weight. Also the LOD is much more capable light than the photons. But it still has a low enough low to be perfect around the house at night.

I use the very slim lanyard that comes with the photons for my LOD, attach a tiny split ring to the LOD and just double loop the string thru the ring. anything extra like snaps or clips on the light snags cloths and hair.

A neck light MUST be a bite light so in order to make the LOD bitable, a wrap of Tommy Tape (self fusing silicone tape) is wraped 
around both ends of the light. This gives a nice firm grip to bite onto and the other wrap being on the head makes for a nice grip to single handidly turn the head. The tape is black and the light is black black lanyard its a nice looking package even though its tucked away under my shirt.

My lanyard is 14inch. Just the right length to quickly snatch from under my shirt, then either hand hold or bite for hands free operation.

I can't count the number of times my neck light has been a very SERIOUS help, and the hundreds of times its been a big help.

Once you get used to having a neck light you will never be without.


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## applevision (Jan 4, 2009)

OrlandoLights said:


> A worthy quest, interesting to read about and easy to identify with. If you find a maker, count me in.


Thanks *OrlandoLights*, you are added. 



todo said:


> I've been wearing a neck light 24/7 for the past 3 years. It started with photon freedoms then a year with a Rex light which is great and perfect size...
> A neck light MUST be a bite light so in order to make the LOD bitable, a wrap of Tommy Tape (self fusing silicone tape) is wraped around both ends of the light. This gives a nice firm grip to bite onto and the other wrap being on the head makes for a nice grip to single handidly turn the head. The tape is black and the light is black black lanyard its a nice looking package even though its tucked away under my shirt...
> 
> I can't count the number of times my neck light has been a very SERIOUS help, and the hundreds of times its been a big help.
> Once you get used to having a neck light you will never be without.


*todo* this is fantastic. I am so with you on this. For me, the LOD would be a bit on the big side, but with the Li battery would be very light. I could totally see this as being an incredible 24/7/365 light. I also like the point about the bite light. I'm hoping that the custom light that we/they come up with is easily biteable though it will likely be raw Ti. One thing I like, however, about just turning on the light and letting it dangle from my neck is that it gives a nice area light around you. Not to get _too_ geeky around here, but it reminded me so much of this videogame called *Diablo*. There, your character has a light radius in these dark dungeons... and it feels like that in a way:










Anyway, super geek-out, I know, but what a neat experience walking around a pitch black basement with a small halo of light!


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## Uriah (Jan 4, 2009)

Add me to your list also 
Thanks


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## applevision (Jan 4, 2009)

Uriah said:


> Add me to your list also
> Thanks



Done! Thanks *Uriah*!


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## ruriimasu (Jan 4, 2009)

apple,
how about this light? it looks smaller than a firefli and does seem waterproof. looks like a twistie too. saw it from kaidomain.


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## applevision (Jan 4, 2009)

ruriimasu said:


> apple,
> how about this light? it looks smaller than a firefli and does seem waterproof. looks like a twistie too. saw it from kaidomain.



Wow, *ruriimasu*, a very interesting find!





...............Length..........Diameter........... ........Volume:
Firefli........38mm............7mm................ ......1462mm^3
Eddie........50mm............10mm................. ....3926mm^3
Wee..........34mm............15mm................. ....6007mm^3
Nano.........37mm............13mm................. ....4910mm^3
LaPetit.......23.25mm.......14.25mm............... ..3681mm^3
Mako.........68mm............13mm................. .....9024mm^3
*KD............42mm.............10mm....................3299mm^3*

This is only 4mm longer and 3mm wider than the FireFli! Holy guacamole. This is a neat light! I am going to order a bunch and check them out... 

Thank you so much for this. I really appreciate it. Hopefully my FireFli will be here soon and I will do a comparo... Of course, I'm still interested in having a custom light made, but this is a bit of a game-changer... if it is amazing this could be THE light...

:thanks::santa:


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## matrixshaman (Jan 5, 2009)

That KD light is listed in inches as 1.65 x 0.39 -- here is a nicer looking one 1.69 x 0.39 inches - lots of colors even to choose from but I doubt it's waterproof Here complete with gold trim  - and less than a buck a piece in the 4 pack. I'd swear I saw that elusive Firefli somewhere fairly recently but I can't say where at the moment. I think I actually saw one in a store someplace being out in the boonies here but I might just be dreaming. Needless to say I'll grab one or all if I come across them again. Of course there is also this one weighing in at 0.39 in x 1.54 in : here for $1.48 but unfortunately out of stock now. You'd think some of our custom makers could do a run for a fair price in aluminum or even Ti with something this small. Afterall we're just talking a single mode twisty with a 5mm LED most likely. With button cells it's probably just direct drive too so no circuit to add to the cost (not sure on that but I think some of these are direct drive). I found a light in a dollar store a while back that was basically just like an Arc AAA but less than half the length since it used button cells. Nicely chromed metal unit so it's probably waterproof being a twisty. Nice pursuit ...


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## applevision (Jan 5, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> That KD light is listed in inches as 1.65 x 0.39 -- here is a nicer looking one 1.69 x 0.39 inches - lots of colors even to choose from but I doubt it's waterproof Here complete with gold trim  - and less than a buck a piece in the 4 pack. I'd swear I saw that elusive Firefli somewhere fairly recently but I can't say where at the moment. I think I actually saw one in a store someplace being out in the boonies here but I might just be dreaming. Needless to say I'll grab one or all if I come across them again. Of course there is also this one weighing in at 0.39 in x 1.54 in : here for $1.48 but unfortunately out of stock now. You'd think some of our custom makers could do a run for a fair price in aluminum or even Ti with something this small. Afterall we're just talking a single mode twisty with a 5mm LED most likely. With button cells it's probably just direct drive too so no circuit to add to the cost (not sure on that but I think some of these are direct drive). I found a light in a dollar store a while back that was basically just like an Arc AAA but less than half the length since it used button cells. Nicely chromed metal unit so it's probably waterproof being a twisty. Nice pursuit ...



Wow, thanks *matrixshaman*! I really like the little red one... I will have to watch and see if it comes back in stock. Agreed that this should be a fairly easy project for a custom maker. I emailed him today about possibly using these lights as a prototype and then making a Ti final product... We shall see!


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## matrixshaman (Jan 5, 2009)

You might also check with CPF member neoseikan. He built the Spartanian and is now offering CNC machine work for $20/hour. Great price for CNC but the drawback is he's in China so it could take some shipping time and so on. He's got an ad around here for this. I do think this concept has potential for sales if a custom maker picks up on this concept.


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## applevision (Jan 6, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> You might also check with CPF member neoseikan. He built the Spartanian and is now offering CNC machine work for $20/hour. Great price for CNC but the drawback is he's in China so it could take some shipping time and so on. He's got an ad around here for this. I do think this concept has potential for sales if a custom maker picks up on this concept.



Thanks *matrixshaman*. This is good advice. If the guy I'm working with now doesn't run with the project, this could be the way to go. I'm very excited about who _is_ considering the project--there could be some serious kit, as they say, in our near future!


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## ev13wt (Jan 6, 2009)

Yoda4561 said:


> A photon 2 almost works, the only real problem is saltwater, it's fine in fresh/tapwater.



Sweat is basically salt water.



applevision said:


> I'm hoping that the custom light that we/they come up with is easily biteable though it will likely be raw Ti. One thing I like, however, about just turning on the light and letting it dangle from my neck is that it gives a nice area light around you.



I love your idea! 

I am thinking Ti is a great choice. Platinum would be the ultimate, if it is hard enough.
A crazy idea: A capacitor driven light with 2 contact points, and a portable charger with 2 d cells (example cells) or a 4aa base station "charger"? Or a 2aa tube, etc.

And a tritium vial, of course.

A flattened or oval type form factor would be easier to wear because it has more even pressure distribution on the skin than a round form factor.

Please add me to the list!


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## applevision (Jan 6, 2009)

ev13wt said:


> I love your idea!
> 
> I am thinking Ti is a great choice. Platinum would be the ultimate, if it is hard enough.
> A crazy idea: A capacitor driven light with 2 contact points, and a portable charger with 2 d cells (example cells) or a 4aa base station "charger"? Or a 2aa tube, etc.
> ...



Done! 

I have submitted two rough designs... the first is a tubular shape... the second is flatter... I think you are on to something with the flattened form factor as well...


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## ypsifly (Jan 6, 2009)

I forgot to check the pockets on a pair of pants before doing laundry last week. About halfway through the dry cycle something was banging around with the clothes so I emptied the dryer and found one of my Task Force led keychain lights: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=225282-50584-FT-ST-01&lpage=none

It survived, stayed dry inside and works just fine. Last year a Solitaire went through a similar unscheduled "Maytag Test" and had to be taken apart and left to dry out for a couple days.


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## applevision (Jan 7, 2009)

ypsifly said:


> I forgot to check the pockets on a pair of pants before doing laundry last week. About halfway through the dry cycle something was banging around with the clothes so I emptied the dryer and found one of my Task Force led keychain lights: http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=225282-50584-FT-ST-01&lpage=none
> 
> It survived, stayed dry inside and works just fine. Last year a Solitaire went through a similar unscheduled "Maytag Test" and had to be taken apart and left to dry out for a couple days.



Wow, *ypsifly*, that's a pretty ringing endorsement! Making it through even part of a wash cycle is a big deal--it's submerged and agitated... so that is impressive. Can you measure this one's length and diameter for us? I couldn't find it on the site. Thanks!


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## balou (Jan 7, 2009)

I'd be interested too in a Firefli-style light.

But applevision, are you planning to use air-zinc batteries like in the firefli, or another battery chemistry? Yes, you'd have to have an closable airhole for it to work, but the advantages of air zinc are enormous imho.
-indefinite storage time when sealed off from air
-extremely high energy density (much larger than any lithium, alkaline or nimh chemistry)
-they can't leak
Besides, what alternatives are there? Are there any 6mm diam lithium batteries? silver oxide coin batteries would be another option... housing could be air/watertight, but energy density and thus runtime would be less.

Oh, and I'd be interested in a SS or Al version. Ti's just too expensive for me 

ev13wt:
problem is, capacitors normally can't store energy for a long enough time. and they have a rather low energy density. carbon aerogel caps might be the best choice, but they aren't available in such small form factors, if at all.


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## ev13wt (Jan 7, 2009)

balou, thanks for the cap info.  

Would this work? 
Varta range of very flat and high energy types with a voltage of 3.7 V and capacities from 340 mAh up to 1320 mAh

Eval kit: http://www.cdiweb.com/varta
Sizes, specs: http://www.cdiweb.com/FeaturedProducts.aspx?type=392&manf=359&cate=2

Info: "Varta PLF263441 with a nominal voltage of 3.7V and a capacity of 340mAh. This very compact battery is just 4.1 x 3.4 x 2.6mm and weighs just 8g"



Applevision thank you for the add. That battery or 2 above each other (the top smaller) could work awesome in a flattened design light.


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## Per Arne (Jan 7, 2009)

Hi,

Mayby I can recommend this one:
- Aunoc AAAA http://www.aunoc.com/home.asp

I think the beam is better than ARC AAA...

PA


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## balou (Jan 7, 2009)

ev13wt and Per Arne: Yes, both options are quite small. Unfortunately, not ultra small 

ev13wt: the battery is actually 41x34x2.6mm, seems like a decimal point got missing. so it's not that small. seems like they are just normal li-poly batteries in a consumer-friendly hull. but yeah, for a flattened design, a li-poly in the size of 20x30xN mm could be suitable.

Per Arne: size of the AAAA alone is longer than a matchstick. applevision stated in this thread over at the marketplace the size in the order of 7-10x40mm. plus you need a dc-dc converter and can no longer use the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) direct drive mode.
oh and please don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to bash the light or you, it's just that it's a notch above "smallest possible" (people seem to misunderstand me lately, so I thought I'll mention that)


oh, and comparing the AAAA battery to air-zinc... in the same space you could fit quite some air zinc batteries.

AAAA: 8.3x42.5mm, ~600mAh, 1.5V
#13 zinc air: 7.9x5.3mm, ~300mAh, 1.4V
8x #13 would be 7.9x42.4mm, 300mAh, 11.2V.
Or 5.6V and 600mAh. Or 1.4V and 2400mAh. Four times the energy density per volume oo:


Btw, I also thought about a credit-card sized flashlight. But I think I'll open a new thread for that.


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## applevision (Jan 7, 2009)

balou said:


> I'd be interested too in a Firefli-style light.


Added! 



balou said:


> But applevision, are you planning to use air-zinc batteries like in the firefli, or another battery chemistry? Yes, you'd have to have an closable airhole for it to work, but the advantages of air zinc are enormous imho.


I'm not sure. I think this is good stuff and I am going to point the person I'm talking with to this thread. I'm just a regular guy and not a maker... but the person who might make this is pretty awesome! 



balou said:


> Oh, and I'd be interested in a SS or Al version. Ti's just too expensive for me


We shall see! But I hear you and if things were easier/cheaper, then I totally agree that SS or Al would be fine by me.

Also, I will point out the battery info you guys have discussed here as well.



Per Arne said:


> Hi,
> 
> Mayby I can recommend this one:
> - Aunoc AAAA http://www.aunoc.com/home.asp
> ...





balou said:


> ev13wt and Per Arne: Yes, both options are quite small. Unfortunately, not ultra small
> 
> Per Arne: size of the AAAA alone is longer than a matchstick. applevision stated in this thread over at the marketplace the size in the order of 7-10x40mm. plus you need a dc-dc converter and can no longer use the KISS (keep it simple, stupid) direct drive mode.
> oh and please don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to bash the light or you, it's just that it's a notch above "smallest possible" (people seem to misunderstand me lately, so I thought I'll mention that)


100% agree! *Per Arne*, thank you so much for pointing out this light!





It is gorgeous! Alas, let's pop it into the chart and see where things sit:

...............Length..........Diameter........... ........Volume:
Firefli........38mm............7mm................ ......1462mm^3
Eddie........50mm............10mm................. ....3926mm^3
Wee..........34mm............15mm................. ....6007mm^3
Nano.........37mm............13mm................. ....4910mm^3
LaPetit.......23.25mm.......14.25mm............... ..3681mm^3
Mako.........68mm............13mm................. .....9024mm^3
KD............42mm.............10mm............... ......3299mm^3
*AUNOC.....67mm............9.5mm....................4751mm^3*

Not bad! What's cool is that it is so thin--significantly thinner than the Mako but about the same length. Still, I agree with *balou *that--for this purpose--it is a bit too big for my liking. 

The other thing is that looking at the review here: http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/aunoc_aaaa.htm they give it a poor/fair. Here's what they say: 


> A beautifully designed light, with great output for its size and small enough to go with you everywhere. Unfortunately the unreliable positive contact in the head of the light really hurts the rating.


So I think that guy is off the list--but otherwise is pretty amazing looking. 



balou said:


> Btw, I also thought about a credit-card sized flashlight. But I think I'll open a new thread for that.


Nice! Please point us there! I also have to point out a custom light in that vein (not to get too OT...) which looks phenomenal here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/212213&page=4

You guys are amazing! This is my favorite thread in the history of CPF!! :twothumbs Thank you!! :twothumbs And I will continue to learn and ...


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## balou (Jan 7, 2009)

one other battery option would be a br425. but I think that it's less than ideal.
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/1220-battery-lithium-25mah-pin-type-br425.html
4.2x26mm, 25-55mAh capacity, depending on which supplier. about $3 a piece. yep, this thing looks weird 

I begin to fear that AAAA or Zinc-Air are the only options for a long running light. But as said, AAAA would need a custom-made , ultra-small dc-dc converter. and diam would have to be at least 9mm.
there is the energizer 377/376 silver oxide battery, 6.8x2.6mm, 27mAh. energizer 319, 5.8x2.7mm, 19mAh. both quite low in capacity. #10 zinc air is 97mAh. in real-world, this is probably a 4x increase in capacity (better discharge characteristic, can handle 'high' discharge currents better [SR coin cells are made primarily for watches, which have current draw in the micro- and not milliampere range])

applesauce, I hope you're going to take the firefli apart when you get it. would be interesting which led they used, if they use a resistor, and if there is an on/off switch, or if shutdown is only because of the oxygen depletion when you screw it back together.
some ideas about manufacturing...
this light could be made from commonly available steel piping, with just two threads cut in. end- and frontpiece could probably be milled, without using a cnc like most other projects here 
led could be a nichia cs or gs with a resistor. or maybe there are other leds with higher efficiency at very low output levels.
Kaichus idea (over at marketplace) of using a 3mm led is also interesting - additional protection for the led, and you could mill some sort of reflector. nichia cs are available in 3mm, and I don't think that there's much of a difference between the 5 and 3mm version, except the size


the cclight thread is here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2776673#post2776673
(did I just invent a name for the thing?)
currently it's 85x54x1.6mm = 7344mm³
single battery/led version could probably be made in 24x32x1.6mm = 1228mm³


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## Per Arne (Jan 8, 2009)

About the Aunoc AAAA;

_"The other thing is that looking at the review here: __http://www.flashlightreviews.com/reviews/aunoc_aaaa.htm__ they give it a poor/fair. Here's what they say: _

_Quote:_
_A beautifully designed light, with great output for its size and small enough to go with you everywhere. Unfortunately the unreliable positive contact in the head of the light really hurts the rating. _

_So I think that guy is off the list--but otherwise is pretty amazing looking." _

Just to let you know that I have the new and updated one with a "solid" contact :twothumbs

PA


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## kramer5150 (Jan 8, 2009)

I think you guys should also consider the older Fenix E0 "Dart". Its been discontinued but it has some strengths, mainly lighter weight than the current E01 and very small profile. Good regulation even with Alkalines, with long running candle mode. Floody Nichia ~6 Lumen output. TypeIII anodize, and its less aggressive knurl makes it very comfortable for neck wear, even while sleeping. It tail stands too. I like it better than the gerber Tempo, its _noticeably _lighter weight hanging around my neck.





http://www.fenixlight.com/flashlight/fenixe0.htm


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## applevision (Jan 9, 2009)

Per Arne said:


> About the Aunoc AAAA;
> Just to let you know that I have the new and updated one with a "solid" contact :twothumbs
> PA



Nice! Thanks *Per Arne*! The Aunoc light could be a competitor with the Mako! It's only a mm shorter but significantly thinner!

Also: I got my FireFli today! It's super cool! Pics and review tomorrow! Off to sleep...


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## cy (Jan 9, 2009)

IMHO... based on EDC'ing neck lanyard lights 7x24 for 4+ years... 
neck lanyard light has to be good enough for all standard EDC duties. using easily obtained cells, which now includes CR2 and supports li-ion. 

this knocks out all the micro-lights out there. 

once you get used to always having a light on your person... you like it and don't want to be without. 

don't get so hung up on finding the smallest light. being able to put out 60 lumens, then dialing it down to 1 lumen is why I carry Titan. 

titanium is ideal for next to skin duties. I'd highly suggest looking for a Ti firefly (cr2 ion) which was originally designed by Larry. but produced by others.


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## ev13wt (Jan 9, 2009)

balou said:


> ev13wt and Per Arne: Yes, both options are quite small. Unfortunately, not ultra small
> 
> ev13wt: the battery is actually 41x34x2.6mm, seems like a decimal point got missing. so it's not that small. seems like they are just normal li-poly batteries in a consumer-friendly hull. but yeah, for a flattened design, a li-poly in the size of 20x30xN mm could be suitable.



I think the single cell size was that small, then they cram them into that casing to get the 41x34x2.6 form factor. I will call them monday.

I did find this one: 3v 25mAh
0.44 x 22 x 29mm 
http://www.de.varta-microbattery.co...a_types.php?output=typedata&segment=PriLiFlat 





And these Vartas Rechargable:








http://www.varta-microbattery.com/e...verview/PRODUCT_OVERVIEW_rech_li_cyl_pris.pdf


I am NOT affiliated with Varta btw. 

Hope to help,

Ben


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## todo (Jan 9, 2009)

cy said:


> IMHO... based on EDC'ing neck lanyard lights 7x24 for 4+ years...
> neck lanyard light has to be good enough for all standard EDC duties. using easily obtained cells, which now includes CR2 and supports li-ion.
> 
> this knocks out all the micro-lights out there.
> ...


 
I agree, when I first thought about useing a 24/7 neck light I assumed it would have to be ssuper small. I started with a photon which does suffice MOST of the time. However a light that is used that often, batteries do become an issue, and changing out photon batteries alot can be a bit tedious. 

For me the diameter of the light is most critical. 123 cells lights are to FAT. I tried a P1Dce and it was uncomfortable. If I'm dressed up I dont want anything bulging from beneath my shirt, and an LOD is just small enough to not show or feel. 

So I guess my point is if you truly want to get hooked on ,wearing a light 24/7 keep it SIMPLE... 1st it must not be a hassle regarding battery life or the ability to find batteries. 2nd it must be comfortable and, 3rd it must have low light and bright light capabilities. For me a black LODce on Energizer lithiums is perfect. I use it all the time and get 3 to 4 weeks on a battery. In the last week of the battery cycle its dimming somewhat but after all a neck light is most used on medium or low.


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## cy (Jan 9, 2009)

Titan would not be recommended for most users wanting to lanyard EDC. it's too big for most and stock lanyard attachment is unreliable. 

but for someone already used to having an object hanging from a lanyard all the time. once Titan's lanyard attachment is modded, Titan works out quite well. 

now why would anyone want to go backwards from using a Larry light to a stock Surefire? 

one of the reasons I quit lanyard EDC my L114430/CR2 is the corrosion factor. body was made made from a turned down Arc AA by Larry. After 2+ years of 7x24 duties, hard anodized body was corroded badly. it was time to retire the Li14430. Luckily original 14430 body was never lanyard EDC and still pristine. 

bottom line ... choice of material does matter....size does matter, but doesn't have to be the smallest. Function of your Lanyard EDC (new term?) 

IMHO needs to be no different from your primary EDC. which in my case is ti PD. making up my two light EDC combo.


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## matrixshaman (Jan 9, 2009)

I came across one more tiny light you might look into. It's still not quite as small in diameter but it's a better quality than some I mentioned above. And it's a twisty and waterproof. It's made by Sterops which is a higher quality light maker. I'll see if I can find the link but it was on DX. Here it is and only $5 so no big loss if it doesn't work for you - it's 0.77" x 2.2" and looks fairly nice in the pics. 

I'd suggest looking into nickel-silver too as an option in getting a custom made if you go forward with the firefli size idea.


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## ev13wt (Jan 9, 2009)

Found a really tiny lamp. Promotional item, not waterproof. Aluminum case. 1 mode momentary. Not for the list, just a form factor idea.

Length: 35mm
Diameter: 12,5mm
+3mm chain holder out back
+ Led 2mm out front


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## cy (Jan 9, 2009)

here's a picture of possibly world's first production LED light. 

it's got a titanium body with red LED. at the time it came out white LED's were rare indeed. 

so this tiny form factor has been around a long time, almost from the beginning of LED lights.


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## LightScene (Jan 9, 2009)

todo said:


> I agree, when I first thought about useing a 24/7 neck light I assumed it would have to be ssuper small. I started with a photon which does suffice MOST of the time. However a light that is used that often, batteries do become an issue, and changing out photon batteries alot can be a bit tedious.
> 
> For me the diameter of the light is most critical. 123 cells lights are to FAT. I tried a P1Dce and it was uncomfortable. If I'm dressed up I dont want anything bulging from beneath my shirt, and an LOD is just small enough to not show or feel.
> 
> So I guess my point is if you truly want to get hooked on ,wearing a light 24/7 keep it SIMPLE... 1st it must not be a hassle regarding battery life or the ability to find batteries. 2nd it must be comfortable and, 3rd it must have low light and bright light capabilities. For me a black LODce on Energizer lithiums is perfect. I use it all the time and get 3 to 4 weeks on a battery. In the last week of the battery cycle its dimming somewhat but after all a neck light is most used on medium or low.


I was going to recommend this exact solution myself. Either a Photon, or an L0D/LD01 aluminum body (with a lithium battery), depending on how often you actually use the light. Since lithium batteries are a bit expensive, Li-Ion would also work with the Fenix's while making the light brighter and a little heavier.


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## applevision (Jan 9, 2009)

Holy crap! This is now surely my favorite CPF thread of all time! It just keeps getting more interesting!

Okay, so a lot happened since last night at 2 am! Where to start...
*todo*, good points, I agree. 

*cy* I think that Lanyard EDC is a cool new term! Now, I do want to stress the point of this thread was the idea that this would be a light that you wear on a chain--a necklace EDC if you will. A bigger, huskier guy could get away with a Titan around his neck, but I'm pretty average build. I'll tell you, for me, even the Wee was too big (diameter is critical, as *todo* said), so LOD/LD01 (which I keep on my keychain and adore) is still too big for this role.

*matrixshaman*, that light from DX is cool, but at 19.6mm in diameter, it's a bit on the larger side in that dimension.

*ev13wt *that promotional light is very sweet! I think that it would be a nice form-factor--looks like a little bullet! 

So, in sum, this is an incredible post with all sorts of awesome ideas. I'm going to point the custom maker I'm chatting with to this post... imagine the possibilities!:twothumbs


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## applevision (Jan 9, 2009)

Team,

I am writing with some exciting news! Let the photo speak for itself:





Yep, I got the FireFli! Thanks to *Sigman*, one of our wonderful mods, I was able to get one in the original packaging. It is _very_ sweet.

In many ways this ends the quest for the perfect 24/7/365 necklight EDC for me. 

Let me do a mini-review, however:

*FireFli Likes:*
-Perfect size!
-Perfect shape!
-Essentially weightless
-Waterproof (when off)
-Nice beam brightness/color (for what it is)
-Amazing battery life (80+hours!)

*FireFli Dislikes:*
-Build quality is fine, but compared to a Fenix or a Lummi it's not anywhere near the same level
-The "twisty" mechanism is janky--you have to unscrew the tail cap a bit to let O2 in (apparently), but in practice it is instantaneous, but it just feels like it has to touch the right place to turn on. The problem is that it feels like removing a battery cap a few turns to turn on the light: this is not elegant and not easy to do while on your neck.
-Exposed LED
-Totally waterproof... EXCEPT while on. (I'd like it totally waterproof on or off)
-Impossible to find a replacement!

Some more pics:




Yep, that's a AA battery on the left and the Lummi Wee on the right--the FireFli is impossibly small!






Summary: Sweet light, got WAY more right than wrong, in dire need of a custom, super-quality, state-of-the-art "remake"... stay tuned!


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## todo (Jan 10, 2009)

applevision said:


> Holy crap! This is now surely my favorite CPF thread of all time! It just keeps getting more interesting!
> 
> Okay, so a lot happened since last night at 2 am! Where to start...
> *todo*, good points, I agree.
> ...


 
Apple....I think your necklace looks sweeeet ...I would wear that . Something you could easily wear on the outside and still retain a Cool Dude factor. 

Now the 24/7 neck light I and a few others have described is not that at all... the Cool Dude factor that is. My lod hung from a thin black but strong string is meant to stay tucked away, discrete and hidden, to avoid the dreaded Geek factor. It is however very funtional and can be called to duty in a flash. 

So we have two different options here and I feel both have their merits and deserve to be discused freely.

One is, come up with a small and STYLISH light and display it proudly. Or as in my case opt for something a bit more utilitarian (LOD) and maybe more useful, but then in all liklyhood you will loose the cool factor, forcing you to be discrete with your neck light. Good stuff....


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## todo (Jan 10, 2009)

Sorry for all the pics guys and gals, but I'm bored (snowed in) and thought I'd show my rig.

1st pic is my LODce with lanyard from a Photon. The lanyard is very light weight and stays hidden well. Also shown is the 2 wraps of Tommy Tape on the LOD. You can see the bite marks on the tape, as this is how I generally use the light when I need to work on something, wires, pc, underhood , etc it frees up your hands. The tommy wrap on the front bezel allows for a much better grip on the bezel, helping to operate the light one handed. Also shown are the Energizer batteries, four batteries like this will run the LOD daily for 4 to 5 months. This more than justifies the price of the premium Lithium not to mention they reduce the weight of the light.

2nd pic demonstrates how hidden this rig stays under a shirt.

3rd and 4th pic demonstrates how I deploy the light. I reach in and snag one side of the lanyard and pull the light out.

5th pic shows light in bite mode, bezel turned twice to achieve low light.

6th pic another pic of light and lanyard. Note a minimum of hooks and or snaps to eliminate snagging of cloths or chest hair (sorry ladies) 

7th pic shows LOD in bite mode on high illuminating a hallway.

The only thing I didn't show was I often just let the light hang straight down. The LOD has GREAT flood and one can easily navigate house or trail in this way.

No its not pretty, not pretty at all but it works pretty well for me.

Thanks for looking


http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jrsue/090109-0928-16.jpg 
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jrsue/090109-0905-16.jpg 
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jrsue/090109-0905-52.jpg 
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jrsue/090109-0906-11.jpg 
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jrsue/090109-0909-28.jpg 
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jrsue/090109-0911-32.jpg 
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jrsue/090109-0912-30.jpg 
 
*[Over-size images replaced by links - DM51]*


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## arpit (Jan 10, 2009)

Put the light on a lanyard which releases when you pull on it. That way you won't injure yourself if it gets caught on something. Use a cheap light, so that it doesn't matter if the lanyard unclips and you lose the light.


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## applevision (Jan 10, 2009)

Great pics, *todo*! I agree 100% that the LOD/LD01 is a superb neck EDC!

:thumbsup:


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## todo (Jan 10, 2009)

Thanks Apple, I know I love seeing pics of other peoples EDC and yours were great as well . I get a kick out finding tiny little tid bits of gear or information that enhance ones day to day chores. Or to say it another way, its allways great finding an easier way. 

And arpit why would you want to bother with a cheap light that can easily pop off. 

Were not talking 500 lb test Paracord here. It is strong but its definatly not gonna hold up to hangin me. It is also strong enough that I know its there when I need.

Furthermore, wearing it under your shirt pretty much eliminates the chance of it getting snagged and being drug by the neck :sick2: via a passing vehicle.


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## LightScene (Jan 10, 2009)

That lanyard looks like it's strong enough to create a serious problem for you if it gets caught in something that's moving. I would suggest putting a lobster clip on the lanyard and hook the light to that. Then you can easily remove the light from the lanyard when you work under-the-hood, etc.

By the way, that's a sweet set up you have. It's kind of making me jealous because it's so utilitarian. I got the LD01 SS which is perfect for keychain carry but not so perfect for neck carry. Oh, and I hadn't thought about wearing it in-between shirts like you do. That would work very well for me too. And thanks for the pictures. I'm kind of snowed in too, 17 and windy.


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## todo (Jan 10, 2009)

LightScene said:


> That lanyard looks like it's strong enough to create a serious problem for you if it gets caught in something that's moving. I would suggest putting a lobster clip on the lanyard and hook the light to that. Then you can easily remove the light from the lanyard when you work under-the-hood, etc.
> 
> By the way, that's a sweet set up you have. It's kind of making me jealous because it's so utilitarian. I got the LD01 SS which is perfect for keychain carry but not so perfect for neck carry. Oh, and I hadn't thought about wearing it in-between shirts like you do. That would work very well for me too. And thanks for the pictures. I'm kind of snowed in too, 17 and windy.


 
Thanks Lightscene...At 50 yrs old you get a pretty good eye for stuff that may do bodily harm LOL. And I see more potential for danger in walking Lucy the dog than I do in my EDC lanyard light, at least in the way I use it.. 

But seriously I do know what your talking about. If you have some serious cordage loose around your neck it could snag on something and be a problem .

But the fact that it is under shirt, or when its out its in my hand or mouth and when finished it goes back, virtually eliminates any possibility of danger.

I've tried lots of different clips including lobster clips. The simple loop thru the split ring is most comfortable, easiest to bite, doesn't jingle and don't snag.

As with anything else theres risk and reward, the risk here negligible and for my use the reward is great.


----------



## LightScene (Jan 11, 2009)

OK. I agree with and defer to your assessment of the safety issue since you have lots of experience. 
Well now I'm doing it your way. I have an L0p modded with an SSC P4 attached to a lanyard by a thin cord and a split ring. I have to admit, so far I like it. Trouble is, in the end I'll have get an aluminum LD01 because it's twice as bright as this one on NiMh, and 4 times as bright on Li-Ion. And then I'll feel really weird about having 2 of them with me all the time. Such is the life of a flashaholic. And that's why we don't talk about it outside CPF.

Thanks again for the pictures. That's what made it real for me.


----------



## cy (Jan 11, 2009)

todo... excellent pictures! 

shows pretty much how it's done. except my preferred lanyard from an Ultra G has a breakaway. Titan no longer has a clip, which to me is worthless if it's not 100% secure. 

with lanyard EDC.... light is perfect for teeth hold. you don't want your lanyard too short, limits travel necessary to make it 100% functional. teeth hold is used at least 1/3 of the time for me. 

when it's pitch dark, teeth hold frees up both hands to work on something. 

Lanyard EDC also protects your nice light from getting all buggered up inside your pocket. for those safe queen type lights that are too nice to use....with Lanyard EDC ... light rides safely inside your shirt... no chance of getting hurt.

again... this feedback is based upon actually lanyard EDC'ing lights, 7x24 for 4+ years. what looks cool may not be so functional. for instance... firefli on a short necklace doesn't look all that useful. your mileage my veri... but any light is better than no light. 

when an emergency hits, the best light is the one on your person. that's the beauty of lanyard EDC... it's always on your person.for me lanyard EDC's requirements, except for size... is no different from a standard EDC. for me micro-lights would never make the grade... bottom line is try it..... live with it 7x24 for at least a month and see if it works.


----------



## todo (Jan 11, 2009)

cy said:


> todo... excellent pictures!
> 
> shows pretty much how it's done. except my preferred lanyard from an Ultra G has a breakaway. Titan no longer has a clip, which to me is worthless if it's not 100% secure.
> 
> ...


 
Great post CY... and I will defer to you with your 4+ yrs of 24/7 lanyard light experience. I am at 3+ years and can easily say I will allways wear one. Actually I just got done using mine, Im sitting here in the wee hrs with few lights on and my mouse batteries died. I pulled out the lod, and put it in "bite mode", walked out to the battery drawer walked back, still in bite mode, illuminated the tiny battery tray, determined the correct battery position.....job done. 

couple questions do you sleep with your light? and do you shower with it? LOL I know ..I know.. highly personal stuff here...but I do sleep with mine (and my wife as well) but have as of 6 months ago quite showering with it. And do you use any tape or similar to maximize bite mode? I know for me, metal on tooth is very uncomfortable.

You also mentioned a point I didn't even think about. The light stays in "pristine" condition, tucked away always with a protective layer of fabric over it. My The wear on my lod as shown in the pics all came from the 1/2 yr of pocket duty. At that time I was carrying a photon Freedom (this is where I grew to love their lanyard size and length). I eventually switched to Rex lights. The Rex is a great 24/7 lanyard light and I carried one (actually rotated 2) for nearly a year. The LOD is just better though, more reliable more versatile. Initially because of the LOD's larger size I experimented with a few different lanyards and clips, but quickly went back to my favorite photon lanyard.

The length of the lanyard is important for me.
14inch is just long enough to comfortably hold away from the body and point by hand. Also just long enough to easily slip over my head for removal. The advantages to keeping the lanyard on the SHORT side (14 inch) are.... its more quickly and easily deployed/pulled out..... its short and close to the mouth for "bite mode" ( used 1/3 of the time)...... it illuminates nicely when just left to hang..... and it stays more under control under garment, and also stays undercontrol while sleeping.


----------



## paulr (Jan 11, 2009)

Why neck lanyard instead of a wristwatch light? There are a few watches with built in led lights, and a few cpf'ers have made coin cell lights that attach to a regular watchband.


----------



## todo (Jan 11, 2009)

LightScene said:


> OK. I agree with and defer to your assessment of the safety issue since you have lots of experience.
> Well now I'm doing it your way. I have an L0p modded with an SSC P4 attached to a lanyard by a thin cord and a split ring. I have to admit, so far I like it. Trouble is, in the end I'll have get an aluminum LD01 because it's twice as bright as this one on NiMh, and 4 times as bright on Li-Ion. And then I'll feel really weird about having 2 of them with me all the time. Such is the life of a flashaholic. And that's why we don't talk about it outside CPF.
> 
> Thanks again for the pictures. That's what made it real for me.


 
Thanks Lightscene and your welcome, hope it works for ya. It takes a bit to get used to but you will grow to appreciate its usefulness.

LOL...And don't worry about carrying 2 lights. I was stubborn and did the same thing for more than 2 years. Every day in addition to my lanyard light I also carried a pocket light until I came to realize.... I use ONE light 99.9% of the time and that was my Lanyard Light. So the pocket light is no more...sad but I had to retire it. Haha.


----------



## applevision (Jan 11, 2009)

paulr said:


> Why neck lanyard instead of a wristwatch light? There are a few watches with built in led lights, and a few cpf'ers have made coin cell lights that attach to a regular watchband.



Absolutely phenomenal thread! Great stuff *todo*, *cy* and *LightScene*--thanks!

*arpit*, it's a good safety point, but I think we are all trying to use a really nice light in this most intimate role, so that's why we don't use a cheap light. As for a breakaway, I think that there's no doubt it would be safer, and it's important to be aware if you have a non-breakaway necklace on, but I think that in real everyday experience for most of us, the chance of this being the thing that gets us is fairly small. I think if you are in a job like law enforcement or are routinely getting into scuffles, this would be a really bad idea because and enemy can use this against you... but in my office setting I think that the telephone cord is just as dangerous to me.:thumbsup:

*paulr*: I love ALL mini lights and am already starting to think about wrist-based lights and even ring lights! Lummi has a prototype of a ring that actually looks cool and masculine and has a teeny tiny LED on it! 

However, for the times that I need a light like this, I am often not wearing my watch (my beloved Casio G-shock), and that's why I wanted a neck light.

The main difference between my way of using it and *todo*'s, however, is that mine is really for those relatively rare times when all my other lights are not around--just a few min per day at most. Thus the 80+ hour battery life and tiny size of the FireFli makes for a PERFECT companion in this regard. Other folks who want to make it their main EDC will need to think more along the lines of *todo*'s brilliant solution.:twothumbs


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## mcmc (Jan 11, 2009)

cy said:


> here's a picture of possibly world's first production LED light.
> 
> it's got a titanium body with red LED. at the time it came out white LED's were rare indeed.
> 
> so this tiny form factor has been around a long time, almost from the beginning of LED lights.




cy, I love the look of that used and loved PD =) It's Ti, right?


----------



## cy (Jan 11, 2009)

all three lights in above pic are ti
amazing how world's first production LED light choice of material was ti




mcmc said:


> cy, I love the look of that used and loved PD =) It's Ti, right?


----------



## MKLight (Jan 11, 2009)

cy,

What was the first?

Thanks,
Mike



cy said:


> all three lights in above pic are ti
> amazing how world's first production LED light choice of material was ti


----------



## MKLight (Jan 11, 2009)

Sorry...double post.


----------



## cy (Jan 12, 2009)

sorry about the OT..

it's the smallest light, lower left in pic above. from what I've able to verify, this little light is world's first production LED light. there were other LED lights before this one, but they were all custom lights. some used for trade shows. 

titanium body with red LED direct driven by coin cells. hardware is either ti or non magnetic stainless. 

been awhile since I've fiddled with this light. so took it apart to check batteries... one cell was beginning to leak. replaced cells, whew...

still works great!



MKLight said:


> cy,
> 
> What was the first?
> 
> ...


----------



## OrlandoLights (Jan 12, 2009)

Inspired by this thread, I have been trying a Freedom on a chain for the last few days, between t-shirt and shirt. Don't even notice it there now, and it has been handy a few times already. Now I'm measuring and weighing my small lights, and looking at others available. I agree, this is a great thread.


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## todo (Jan 12, 2009)

OrlandoLights said:


> Inspired by this thread, I have been trying a Freedom on a chain for the last few days, between t-shirt and shirt. Don't even notice it there now, and it has been handy a few times already. Now I'm measuring and weighing my small lights, and looking at others available. I agree, this is a great thread.


 
A Photon Freedom is a great little lanyard light. That's what I started with and carried one for more than a year. The advantage's are.... they are extremly light weight and discrete, water proof (I seldom if ever removed mine even showerd with it on).bright enough for most tasks you will encounter, and it ramps down nicely for extreme dark and close up work...... It is the ultimate bite light, small lightweight and plastic gives a firm grip with your teeth.... get your button cells online by the card and their cheap enough to swap every 2 weeks or so. 

The way I wore mine was to first remove the split ring which comes on the Freedom. Then using their supplied lanyard simply double loop the lanyard thru the hole in the Freedom. Great little tool. I eventually moved up to a slightly bigger brighter light in the LOD. For two reasons... first was changing out and buying the freedoms button cells every few weeks does get a bit tedious but no big deal.....the other reason was it is somewhat limited on it lumin output. That being said the Freedom is great starter EDC Lanyard light and you will grow to love being able to depend on it.


----------



## MKLight (Jan 13, 2009)

cy - Hey! Thanks. 

Apple - Hey! If/when you make your custom light, can I be put on your list?

Thanks,
Mike


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## paulr (Jan 13, 2009)

I think of a tiny lanyard light as a last ditch backup and/or something to use in occasional odd situations where you don't have your regular lights with you. With that kind of usage, the cells in a Freedom should last for a very long time. Same thing with the fire-fli. If you're going to use the light more than that, maybe think about an AAA light, or a Photon Rex or something like that.


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## McGizmo (Jan 13, 2009)

cy,

OT but that red LED light is a Tekna, right? If I am not mistaken, I bought one of those while on my honeymoon in 1978 and that certainly predates white LED's by a number of years!! Heck, it predates PC's for that matter!


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## cy (Jan 13, 2009)

OT.. yup... it's a Tekna... from what I'm able to tell, it's the world's first production LED light. others predated it, but they were mostly engineering samples given out at trade shows, etc. 

certainly world's first ti LED light. 

hardware is either non-magnetic stainless steel or ti with brass pin for hinge. uses 2x 357 button cells direct driven Red LED. 



McGizmo said:


> cy,
> 
> OT but that red LED light is a Tekna, right? If I am not mistaken, I bought one of those while on my honeymoon in 1978 and that certainly predates white LED's by a number of years!! Heck, it predates PC's for that matter!


----------



## applevision (Jan 13, 2009)

MKLight said:


> cy - Hey! Thanks.
> 
> Apple - Hey! If/when you make your custom light, can I be put on your list?
> 
> ...



Hey Mike, you are added! 



paulr said:


> I think of a tiny lanyard light as a last ditch backup and/or something to use in occasional odd situations where you don't have your regular lights with you. With that kind of usage, the cells in a Freedom should last for a very long time. Same thing with the fire-fli. If you're going to use the light more than that, maybe think about an AAA light, or a Photon Rex or something like that.



I could not agree more! 


Also: I am flattered and excited to have McGizmo reading/posting in this thread!:wave:


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## moeman (Jan 22, 2009)

Been awefully quiet....


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## ugrey (Jan 23, 2009)

Well, I don't wear a light around my neck everyday but when the lights go out one of the first things I do is to hang a light around my neck. I like my P2D because it has a clickie and I can turn it on with one hand. It hangs outside my shirt so the larger size does not bother me. I am now a firm believer in hanging a light around my neck when the lights go out. I keep several Fenix EO1s on hand to hang on all the other family members. I tell them to turn them on and leave them on. That is very helpful to them and they never walk into a dark room. I think the ultimate "hang around the neck power outage light" would be a SureFire L1 or L2. Long runtime on low and a hard push on the tailcap gives very bright light. I am waiting for the new version of the L1.


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## paulr (Jan 24, 2009)

If anyone cares I noticed that walgreens has a 2-for-1 coupon for hearing aid batteries in this week's in-store coupon flyer. I don't know if that includes the batteries that the fire-fli uses, but if you happen past walgreens and have a fire-fli it may be worth a look.


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## Illum (Jan 24, 2009)

paulr said:


> I don't know if that includes the batteries that the fire-fli uses, but if you happen past walgreens and have a fire-fli it may be worth a look.



Firefli uses size 10 Zinc Air cells...meaning:
check for:
DURACELL DA230
Energizer AC10EZ-8
IEC PR536
IEC PR70
RAYOVAC L10ZA
Renata ZA10


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## applevision (Jan 26, 2009)

Thanks so much, guys.

I will be on the lookout for the batts!


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## Illum (Jan 26, 2009)

I've been to radioshack yesterday and they have the rayovac size 10 zinc airs. 24 pack for $21+tax 

its under Catalog #: 23-470

hope this helps as well, cheers :wave:


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## MKLight (Feb 8, 2009)

Apple...and updates on your project?

Thanks,
Mike


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## applevision (Feb 9, 2009)

Hey Mike,

Thanks for asking!

No updates in awhile... 

I haven't heard from the maker who was going to make a prototype and I don't want to be too much of a bother... I'm STILL waiting for the order of those tiny flashlights from Kai's (it's been over 1 month and I rec'd an order from Deal Ex in the same time frame... grrrr....) so nothing much new to report...

I have been wearing my FireFli and I love this little light. It never comes off my neck. I find that I use it only a few min per week, so hopefully the batts will last me years! But those minutes when I need it--it is there! 

Updates to follow as they come...


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## MKLight (Feb 9, 2009)

Apple,

Hey! Glad to hear most everything is going well! Glad you like the FireFli and that it works well for ya! 

Looking forward to future updates! 

Have a great one!
Mike


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## ruriimasu (Feb 11, 2009)

applevision said:


> Hey Mike,
> 
> Thanks for asking!
> 
> ...



i dont think kai is going to send you that little light. last i checked on my order, it became back order! :scowl: i have since cancelled my order. nothing i ordered from kai actually gets delivered. i guess they just dont have the money like DX to give free international mails on low cost items.


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## Norm (Feb 11, 2009)

McGizmo said:


> cy,
> 
> OT but that red LED light is a Tekna, right? If I am not mistaken, I bought one of those while on my honeymoon in 1978 and that certainly predates white LED's by a number of years!! Heck, it predates PC's for that matter!


Not quite Don I remember I was driving one of these about 1978. 

TRS-80 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 







Norm


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## kaichu dento (Feb 11, 2009)

Lately I've been alternating between wearing my Titan and my Draco on a neck lanyard and swimming in the hot springs lake with them with no problems and I'm not sure which one I like better. 

I love the UI of the Titan best of all my lights, not to mention it's low-low, but the Draco is so lightweight, has a very decent low, and is incredibly bright too! 

In the spirit of this thread I think the Draco is one of the best choices a person could possibly make for a versatile, tiny EDC. :twothumbs


----------



## applevision (Feb 12, 2009)

ruriimasu said:


> i dont think kai is going to send you that little light. last i checked on my order, it became back order! :scowl: i have since cancelled my order. nothing i ordered from kai actually gets delivered. i guess they just dont have the money like DX to give free international mails on low cost items.



Awww man! Mine says "Backordered" now too!


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## matrixshaman (Feb 15, 2009)

I found a light recently that might be a contender here. It's similar to but smaller than most common cylindrical side button keychain lights. It's got a chromed bezel and measures 9.86mm dia. by 46.64mm long or 0.388" dia. by 1.85" long. Fairly bright and reasonably white for a 5mm LED. It uses the usual hearing aid type batteries (392's I believe). I think based on calcs I saw here earlier in this thread it is smaller than anything else overall except the firefli. 

Here's a pic:


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## kaichu dento (Feb 15, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> I found a light recently that might be a contender here. It's similar to but smaller than most common cylindrical side button keychain lights. It's got a chromed bezel and measures 9.86mm dia. by 46.64mm long or 0.388" dia. by 1.85" long. Fairly bright and reasonably white for a 5mm LED. It uses the usual hearing aid type batteries (392's I believe). I think based on calcs I saw here earlier in this thread it is smaller than anything else overall except the firefli.
> 
> Here's a pic:


Hey, I've got one of those!


----------



## deusexaethera (Feb 15, 2009)

...


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## moeman (Feb 15, 2009)

deusexaethera said:


> I like flashlights, but wearing them in the shower? Wearing them while swimming? What, in case you stumble on a shipwreck and decide to check it out for buried treasure?
> *[comments edited - DM51]*


 
I do believe thats going a little too far...


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## phoneguy (Feb 15, 2009)

Although I have never personally understood the people that wear lights around their neck 24/7 I would never say that there is something wrong with them. To each their own. I have a street rod that runs mid 9's in the quarter mile and I am sure that many people don't understand that as well.

Bryan


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## DM51 (Feb 15, 2009)

deusexaethera... you are out of order. Please edit that post to remove your unpleasant comments.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 15, 2009)

Oh that's right, not everyone is amused by the same things I am. It was intended to be so absurd it was funny.


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## deusexaethera (Feb 15, 2009)

phoneguy said:


> Although I have never personally understood the people that wear lights around their neck 24/7 I would never say that there is something wrong with them. To each their own. I have a street rod that runs mid 9's in the quarter mile and I am sure that many people don't understand that as well.
> 
> Bryan


Well yeah, but you don't get naked with your car.


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## Illum (Feb 15, 2009)

deusexaethera said:


> Well yeah, but you don't get naked with your car.



didn't you _just _edited an absurd comment?:duh2:


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## matrixshaman (Feb 15, 2009)

kaichu dento said:


> Hey, I've got one of those!



BTW that pic makes it look bigger than it is. There is a very common style of keychain lights that look similar to this but most of them are about 30% to 40% bigger and are closer to a AA size battery in diameter. That one I have in the pic is a lot smaller than those and noticeably so when you see it in person. Where did you get yours? Same exact measurments?


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## Lumenz (Feb 24, 2009)

Any updates on the custom light, applevision? I have a Firefli as well and I love that little light. However, I keep mine on my keychain; it is so small I sometimes forget it is there.

I am also waiting on getting some of those lights from Kaidomain. I ordered back on January 3 and I have not heard anything yet. :thumbsdow


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## applevision (Feb 25, 2009)

Hey *Lumenz*,

Thanks for asking. So the fella I asked to make the light hasn't gotten back to me in a looong time.

I don't want to be pest... but I will write to him this week.

Yeah, that sucks about our Kai lights--they charged us already, right? I wonder if we should contest it with the credit card company? That's terrible! And the site still says "in stock"... Ugh... Easy come, easy go...

:sigh:


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## matrixshaman (Feb 26, 2009)

IMO Kiadomain is one of the worst to deal with. Hopefully you didn't order a bunch so I'd chalk it up as a loss and just go to Lowe's hardware where I got that one I mentioned in a previous post here (the one in the pic by a quarter on red background) and you'll get one for around $2 complete with batteries.


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## Novanet (Mar 1, 2009)

I haven't been following this thread very closely, but you may all want to take a look at this new light from Essential Gear, the eGear PICO LED Zipper Light:

http://www.essentialgear.com/store/p/117-eGear-PICO-LED-Zipper-Lite.html

Doug Ritter also wrote about it on his Equipped to Survive website:

http://www.dougritter.com/PICOLite.htm

It might not fulfill ALL the points on your wish-list, but it seems that it comes VERY close:

QUOTE (from first post) (*per advertised specs*)

"So it needs to be: 
-light and teeny-tiny, like a Photon/fauxton *EVEN SMALLER*
-waterproof *IPX 4 WATER RESISTANT*
-durable in general *ANODIZED 6061 ALUMINUM*
-brightness, price and runtime are more negotiable *10 LUMENS, 12 BUCKS, AND 15 HOURS*"

The site also says that it uses alkaline's, but I can find numerous batteries of both the silver oxide and lithium types that will also fit this light, possibly even increasing run-times and brightness as well...

(found the link while I was researching the Glo-Toob Lithium, on good ol' Google!)

Let me know what you all think...


----------



## applevision (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks *Novanet*!

This is a really neat light and I want to pick one up!

:twothumbs




Novanet said:


> I haven't been following this thread very closely, but you may all want to take a look at this new light from Essential Gear, the eGear PICO LED Zipper Light:
> 
> http://www.essentialgear.com/store/p/117-eGear-PICO-LED-Zipper-Lite.html
> 
> ...


----------



## paulr (Mar 2, 2009)

1. That light looks about the same as a Streamlight Key-mate, though maybe uses a better led (Nichia GS) since the key-mate is older.

2. Either way, 10 lumens for 15 hours is an absurd overstatement, but I can believe 1-2 lumens still coming out after 15 hours, a very useful amount of light similar to the old CMG Infinity with a fresh battery.

3. If it's like the keymate, it's a well-made light, but a little thicker and almost as long as a 1aaa light like an Arc. The Arc is a lot easier to keep fed with batteries.

4. A higher class tiny button cell light (runs on ONE SR44 instead of four of them) is Photon Fanatic's La Petite Killer, mentioned upthread. It's much smaller than the Keymate-style light but costs a lot more. It is set up for around 2 lumens regulated with intermittent runtime of a few hours total. The batteries aren't really built for continuous drain above tiny levels. This will also be true for the keymate-style light.

5. I'm amused by the rip-off of the McGizmo Mini-clip on the light. It's a very clever design (torsion spring gate) that I thought Don might have patented.


----------



## Novanet (Mar 2, 2009)

QUOTE: (from paulr) "1. That light looks about the same as a Streamlight Key-mate, though maybe uses a better led (Nichia GS) since the key-mate is older."

paulr, by any chance did you mean the Streamlight "Nanolight"?

The Pico and the Nanolight have almost identical dimensions:
Pico: 1.47" x 0.5"
Nanolight: 1.47" x .51"

The Streamlight Key-mate is 2.36" long, over 50% longer...

In researching paulr's comments above, I also discovered that the Pico is nearly identical to the SL Nanolight, not only in size and clip, but in battery type as well:

http://www.streamlight.com/product/product.aspx?pid=141

btw, the small torson spring clip is also used by Surefire in their Z60 Lanyard System, This appears to have been around since 2005, so I'm fairly sure it pre-dates McG's use of the device, for what it's worth... :shrug:


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## Lumenz (Mar 5, 2009)

*applevision*: Any news on getting your dream light created? Feel free to put me on the list as a potential buyer of the light if it is created. The Firefli is a neat little light, but I think with current technology, a better version can be created.


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## applevision (Mar 9, 2009)

Lumenz said:


> *applevision*: Any news on getting your dream light created? Feel free to put me on the list as a potential buyer of the light if it is created. The Firefli is a neat little light, but I think with current technology, a better version can be created.



*Lumenz* added you to the list--things are stalled now but I am trying to get him to work on a prototype...

Thanks!


----------



## applevision (Mar 9, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> I found a light recently that might be a contender here. It's similar to but smaller than most common cylindrical side button keychain lights. It's got a chromed bezel and measures 9.86mm dia. by 46.64mm long or 0.388" dia. by 1.85" long. Fairly bright and reasonably white for a 5mm LED. It uses the usual hearing aid type batteries (392's I believe). I think based on calcs I saw here earlier in this thread it is smaller than anything else overall except the firefli.
> 
> Here's a pic:




Super sweet light! I think this *is* the one (or at least verrrrrrry close to it) that I'm still awaiting shipping from KD. Very cool and just right form factor! The only thing is that I worry about a button vs. twisty in terms of being water tight, you know?


----------



## cy (Mar 10, 2009)

looks like the Ti Sapphire AAA is filling the bill real soon. 

will try out Ti Sapphire for neck lanyard duties to see if Titan will get retired.


----------



## bmstrong (Mar 11, 2009)

cy said:


> looks like the Ti Sapphire AAA is filling the bill real soon.
> 
> will try out Ti Sapphire for neck lanyard duties to see if Titan will get retired.



It's surprised you went for the Ti AAA, cy. No tail stand and two stage? Mako all the way!


----------



## kaichu dento (Mar 11, 2009)

bmstrong said:


> It's surprised you went for the Ti AAA, cy. No tail stand and two stage? Mako all the way!


I've got a Sapphire and two Mako's on the way! 

Still don't see anything moving my Titan out of neck carry... yet!


----------



## applevision (Mar 12, 2009)

kaichu dento said:


> I've got a Sapphire and two Mako's on the way!
> 
> Still don't see anything moving my Titan out of neck carry... yet!



Reviews with photos please when the arrive! :thumbsup:


----------



## cy (Mar 13, 2009)

sapphire just got here and it's a beauty!!! 
ti Arc AAA kit is enroute.. 

sapphire has taken over neck lanyard EDC duties from Titan. We'll see how long that lasts. would like to insert a miller mod LE, but sapphire works fine as is. will compliment Ti PD very well. never use tail stand... always got along fine on stock Arc AAA without two levels. 

without question sapphire is a home run!
this is the first light I've purchased since Titan came out. have not been exited about any of the new lights coming out. 



bmstrong said:


> It's surprised you went for the Ti AAA, cy. No tail stand and two stage? Mako all the way!


----------



## Christoph (Mar 13, 2009)

A little maintenance for your firefli here.


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## applevision (Mar 13, 2009)

cy said:


> sapphire just got here and it's a beauty!!!
> ti Arc AAA kit is enroute..
> 
> sapphire has taken over neck lanyard EDC duties from Titan. We'll see how long that lasts. would like to insert a miller mod LE, but sapphire works fine as is. will compliment Ti PD very well. never use tail stand... always got along fine on stock Arc AAA without two levels.
> ...



Hey *cy*, that is awesome about the Sapphire! I read about it on the thread from McGizmo and it looks sweet! I may have to try to get one... The only thing I want to clarify is that the FireFli (and the light I am dreaming about for this thread) can fit INSIDE a AAA battery! (The Sapphire is powered by a AAA!). So we're talking an order of magnitude smaller for what I am seeking to "wear" on a daily basis. Of course, this is not to say that the Sapphire is any less cool/gorgeous/important, only to say that it is more in line with the LD01/Arc-AAA/Mako type lights in terms of size. Many will wear such a light around the neck at all times and, in my opinion, McGizmo's work is so fine that this light will likely last a lifetime in this manner. However, I just want to be clear that I'm talking about a TEENY TINY light, one that makes my gorgeous Lummi Wee look BIG.



Christoph said:


> A little maintenance for your firefli here.



*Christoph*, thank you for this! Important FireFli information!

lovecpf


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## Lumenz (Mar 13, 2009)

@applevision

I got an e-mail from KD yesterday that the Firefli clones were shipping. Hopefully you got the same e-mail. I am excited about getting these lights because my Firefli has been acting funny lately. Although it might clear up if I do a little Firefli maintenance like Christop suggested. 

@Christoph:

That is a clean looking Firefli. Mine spends all of its time on my keychain so the poor thing is all beat up. The LED is scratched up a bit but it still shines.


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## applevision (Mar 14, 2009)

Lumenz said:


> @applevision
> 
> I got an e-mail from KD yesterday that the Firefli clones were shipping. Hopefully you got the same e-mail. I am excited about getting these lights because my Firefli has been acting funny lately. Although it might clear up if I do a little Firefli maintenance like Christop suggested.



Me too!

Can't wait to check em out!


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## Christoph (Mar 14, 2009)

I got a shipping notice as well.


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## Rocketfish (Mar 17, 2009)

I'm interested in making this light, but need to get up to speed fairly quick on how to do the LED parts, and the mechanics of how the firefly worked. I also need to get the LEDs and batteries fairly quick. I'm a casting and smithing student in BC Canada. I was thinking it could be a really cool light if made in bronze, and perhaps even a touch more decorative(with carvings or texture on the tube, or perhaps a slightly different shape down the road) I could do it in aluminium as well, but since bronze is mostly brass and copper I figure it should conduct well, and would look amazing with some nice patinas.

If I can get going on it this week, I should have a prototype cast by our next bronze pour(2 weeks)


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## cy (Mar 17, 2009)

be interesting to see if you too let Sapphire take over neck lanyard EDC duties from Titan. 

my standard EDC is two lights... second light has been Ti PD for sometime. 

with Titan, there was overlap in function with Ti PD. Titan did it all. main drawback was size... Titan would be a bit large for most as a lanyard EDC. 

really enjoy playing with ti sapphire...



kaichu dento said:


> I've got a Sapphire and two Mako's on the way!
> 
> Still don't see anything moving my Titan out of neck carry... yet!


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## applevision (Mar 18, 2009)

Rocketfish said:


> I'm interested in making this light, but need to get up to speed fairly quick on how to do the LED parts, and the mechanics of how the firefly worked. I also need to get the LEDs and batteries fairly quick. I'm a casting and smithing student in BC Canada. I was thinking it could be a really cool light if made in bronze, and perhaps even a touch more decorative(with carvings or texture on the tube, or perhaps a slightly different shape down the road) I could do it in aluminium as well, but since bronze is mostly brass and copper I figure it should conduct well, and would look amazing with some nice patinas.
> 
> If I can get going on it this week, I should have a prototype cast by our next bronze pour(2 weeks)



*Rocketfish*!! This is _very_ exciting stuff! I consider myself a connoisseur of the tiniest lights and would be very interested in seeing what you come up with. I ordered a bunch of those little lights from KD (see above in the thread) and they are still not here yet, but they might be a good cheap source for an emitter and batteries... I will let you know.

Awesome and keep us posted please!

lovecpf


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## Rocketfish (Mar 19, 2009)

applevision said:


> *Rocketfish*!! This is _very_ exciting stuff! I consider myself a connoisseur of the tiniest lights and would be very interested in seeing what you come up with. I ordered a bunch of those little lights from KD (see above in the thread) and they are still not here yet, but they might be a good cheap source for an emitter and batteries... I will let you know.
> 
> Awesome and keep us posted please!
> 
> lovecpf



Perhaps you could give me a bit more intel on how these lights work?
I use LED lights but I have never made one. I only have approx 2 weeks left to get some stuff ready to pour, then I graduate(wish I'd seen this thread sooner)
my best guess so far is I need to create a bronze tube, or bore out a bronze object to 5mm, tap it, create a plug with a lanyard or necklace hole and thread it to fit the tube?
I do not understand: switches, or LEDs(other then turning them on and off) However one of the teachers is very smart and creates amazing electronic things. so far I'm picturing some simple tubes to start, maybe carve or texture the outside a bit. I do want to try some square ones and teardrop ones( Oval cross section to me makes more sense, you'd feel it when it's on too since the top would no longer fit right!)


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## kaichu dento (Mar 19, 2009)

cy said:


> be interesting to see if you too let Sapphire take over neck lanyard EDC duties from Titan.
> 
> my standard EDC is two lights... second light has been Ti PD for sometime.
> 
> ...


I'm enjoying mine a lot too, but my Draco has once again found it's way back onto my neck lanyard.

So far I've neck carried my Titan, Draco and Arc... and loved them all! Hard to decide, but with my preference for understatement and balance, I liked the Arc best appearance wise, Titan for ease of use and the only light with a low even lower than my needs, but am probably going to stick with the Draco, or even pick up a Drake. 

The only thing I wish I could get with the Draco/Drake, would be center hang, which brings us to one of the newest choices in center hanging AAA; the Sapphire/Arc! 

In closing however, and this may be my last post ever as I may be lynched for blasphemy:duck:, wearing it, as I am right now, it is just too flashy and pretentious looking for my personality, even moreso than the much larger Titan.

This brings forward another issue to consider when choosing a light that will be neck carried; whether to go with something that conveys one's sense of fashion, or to go with inside-the-shirt out of sight carry. To date, I have been wearing mine in the open, but have considered carrying it inside my t-shirt after having hit myself in the face a couple times so far when throwing chunks of snow at other employees and the light whipped around... whack! :sick2: :duh2:

Be careful, and choose using your own personal criteria! :thumbsup:


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## Christoph (Mar 19, 2009)

Rocketfish pm sent.
C


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## Christoph (Mar 20, 2009)

I got my new little light from Kia yesterday here are some pics and a mini review go easy I am not a reviewer.



As you can see this one is not waterproof in the least.Of the three that I had delivered for $3.45 only one of them has a solid tailcap.








Compared to my truest edc.







For $1.15 each delivered these will make good give a ways for some friends.They use LR41 batteries x4.The quality is ok,these may last as long as the batteries
It is however in a whole different class than the firefli. 
Chris


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## kaichu dento (Mar 20, 2009)

Those are pretty cool; I like the shrouded emitter too.


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## applevision (Mar 20, 2009)

Christoph said:


> I got my new little light from Kia yesterday...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey *Christoph*, you beat me to the punch! Just got mine today in the mail. I couldn't agree more. They are cool and pretty small, but again not quite in the range of the FireFli. They are also fairly clunky and the quality of the LED is terrible on mine--super purple. Other than that, a cool idea... and a decent form-factor... but the FireFli is still in a class of its own!


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## cy (Mar 21, 2009)

you folks that like the firefli... should consider starting a thread called the "smallest 24/7/365 Waterproof Neck Carry Light"

note in no way am I saying wanting the smallest is bad. 
one of my first successful neck lanyard EDC was a TNC Ncell. 
it was about the size of an Arc AAA... which probably is the first successful neck lanyard light. 

for those of us that's actually EDC a light 7x24 any length of time knows what body salts can do to metals. that's why I stopped carrying my Li14430/CR2 light. the hard anodized body had severe corrosion from being in constant contact with body salts. 

this is why Ti Sapphire fits the 7x24 EDC role so well. Priced at $150 is not exactly cheap, but is cheapest McGizmo light in quite sometime. my guess is someone will come up with a two stage light engine for sapphire along the lines of a millermods Arc AAA. 

besides the super coool ti body... performance of the new 3mm LED is slowly getting out. NO it's not brighter than a P4... but what 3mm does do is provide a nice usable amount of light in a beam perfect for closeup work. 

LED's have long advanced to putting out way more light than is needed for most closeup work. beam color and pattern is just as important as lumens.


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## applevision (Mar 21, 2009)

cy said:


> you folks that like the firefli... should consider starting a thread called the "smallest 24/7/365 Waterproof Neck Carry Light"
> 
> note in no way am I saying wanting the smallest is bad.
> one of my first successful neck lanyard EDC was a TNC Ncell.
> it was about the size of an Arc AAA... which probably is the first successful neck lanyard light.


 
Good points, *cy*. I think you're right--what I'm after is the:
*Smallest* 24/7/365 Waterproof Neck*lace* Carry Light!

So while I do love the Sapphire and the Mako (et al.; and hey, not to get too off topic, but is there a thread where folks compare/contrast them and give us a "verdict" about which of those they like more?!), I am really looking for something truly wearable. I will tell you that even the diminutive FireFli (all hail!) has caused me pain while rolling over in just the right/wrong fashion... sometimes I wish it were more "pendant"-shaped (i.e., more like a fauxton/Photon). 

Should we make a new thread with all we have learned? 

I am SO excited about the potential for a custom version of a *Smallest* 24/7/365 Waterproof Neck*lace* Carry Light... and I hope the person working on it will announce something soon!! :twothumbs


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## wingnutLP (Mar 21, 2009)

I am definitely interested in a wearable titanium light provided it costs less than $100 or so


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## wingnutLP (Mar 21, 2009)

cy said:


> you folks that like the firefli... should consider starting a thread called the "smallest 24/7/365 Waterproof Neck Carry Light"



I agree with everything you have said but I am afraid I really don't find an AAA sized light to be a neck carry size I am afraid. The AAA form factor is just way too big to live around my neck my whole life. I am sure the Sapphire Ti is a fantastic AAA light, no doubt it is one of the best but ANY AAA light would be too big for me.


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## applevision (Mar 25, 2009)

wingnutLP said:


> I agree with everything you have said but I am afraid I really don't find an AAA sized light to be a neck carry size I am afraid. The AAA form factor is just way too big to live around my neck my whole life. I am sure the Sapphire Ti is a fantastic AAA light, no doubt it is one of the best but ANY AAA light would be too big for me.



100% agreed! (that the AAA size is just too big for around my neck 24/7/365)


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## kaichu dento (Mar 26, 2009)

I wore my Titan 24/7, although I can't say 365! It was replaced for a while by my Draco, then shortly by an Arc out of curiosity, back to the Titan, and now (possibly permanently) back to the Draco again. 

Wish the Draco had the Titan interface and ultra-low, and I love the beam pattern of both, but the edge goes to the Draco due to beam tint and size.


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## cy (Mar 28, 2009)

OK... back to Lanyard EDC my Titan again... may swap back to Sapphire again soon.


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## applevision (Mar 29, 2009)

cy said:


> OK... back to Lanyard EDC my Titan again... may swap back to Sapphire again soon.



*cy* can you give us some of your thoughts on these babies?


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 29, 2009)

I will go with cy re quality of beam shape and tint are important in a small neck carry light. I did not go with the Sapphire, but the 3mm sitting deep in the Arc AAA type head compared to the current 5mm's, must allow for a cleaner less artifacty beam. My old Arc BS LE AAA with LED sitting deeper in the head has a nice clean beam, and though there is a trace of blue in the center spot it looks much better than the current DS's and GS's.

Bill


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## cy (Mar 30, 2009)

really like size and package for sapphire. 3mm is wonderful for a nice low beam. but really missed having a full power high beam. 

that's why I went back to Titan... for now. 
what I'd like to do is transplant my millermod's two stage light engine into a sapphire head. 

going down in size, shouldn't mean having to sacrifice function. 
titan still has my favorite User Interface. sure is nice being able to dial in exactly how much light. 

trying to figure out a way to put a pocket clip on sapphire.


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## applevision (Mar 30, 2009)

cy said:


> really like size and package for sapphire. 3mm is wonderful for a nice low beam. but really missed having a full power high beam.
> ...
> going down in size, shouldn't mean having to sacrifice function.
> titan still has my favorite User Interface. sure is nice being able to dial in exactly how much light.
> ...



Well-put. I feel the same way. I want tiny but potent. Or, at least a real extreme--with the FireFli, it is SO small that minimal output is okay. But with the larger lights (and I do understand those who want the long runtimes, of course), I just expect to be *able* to get more out of them if needed.


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## Spence (Apr 3, 2009)

Right now I'm EDCing the Fenix LD01 Stainless Steel (1 X AAA) limited production. I'm a retired police Detective and I had favorable results carrying a stainless pistol beginning when they came out in the mid-seventies. I wear my LD01 on a stainless, ball chain lanyard and tuck it into my shirt pocket (I hate dropping my lights). I'm amazed at the performance of the LD01 and I'm happy it just features med/low/high and none of the non-sense modes or settings. I haven't got a charger for 10440's yet so my experience is limited to NiMh, AAA, rechargeables, which have given me terrific duty, so far. I like this light so much, I sent the black HA version to my son-in-law for use when he begins backpacking in the Utah mountains in two weeks. I also found that the old, plastic, 35mm film canisters will hold 4 extra AAA batteries to pack, 1 for his LD01 and 3 for his Princeton Tech EOS headlamp. Thought you might like that clue since I'm always looking for clever means for packing/carrying extra batteries.:twothumbs
As for YOUR neck carry, if your LD01 SS is too big or heavy, have you tried the little pinch, coin cell lights that Battery Junction sends free with their orders? I've received several of them and they are brighter with a better bem than any others I've seen, including those from Lighthound. They are $.99 each if you buy them from Battery Junction but one free with minimum sized orders. BTW I test mine by lighting up my dark bathroom with a ceiling bounce and this little key chain type light works very well. Good luck to ya.


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## bmstrong (Apr 4, 2009)

I don't know if there is a thread on the Arc vs. Mako, but as someone who had both and instantly sold the Arc offering? The Mako, IMHO, is so far ahead of those offerings. I understand that might torque some members off but the Mako is the finest AAA light. Period. Two stage. Ti. Tailstand. 




applevision said:


> Good points, *cy*. I think you're right--what I'm after is the:
> *Smallest* 24/7/365 Waterproof Neck*lace* Carry Light!
> 
> So while I do love the Sapphire and the Mako (et al.; and hey, not to get too off topic, but is there a thread where folks compare/contrast them and give us a "verdict" about which of those they like more?!), I am really looking for something truly wearable. I will tell you that even the diminutive FireFli (all hail!) has caused me pain while rolling over in just the right/wrong fashion... sometimes I wish it were more "pendant"-shaped (i.e., more like a fauxton/Photon).
> ...


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## kaichu dento (Apr 4, 2009)

bmstrong said:


> I don't know if there is a thread on the Arc vs. Mako, but as someone who had both and instantly sold the Arc offering? The Mako, IMHO, is so far ahead of those offerings. I understand that might torque some members off but the Mako is the finest AAA light. Period. Two stage. Ti. Tailstand.


Evidently you're the one who's torqued. Strange way to post your opinion but I beg to differ. I like the Arc-Ti much better, particularly when it comes to beam pattern. 

AAA lights I have and order of preference. (I'm probaby forgetting some...)

L0D RB80
L0D Ti SSC P4
Jet-μ
Extreme III RB100
Arc-Ti
Arc-P
Zero Gravity
Mako

Your opinion lost a lot of ground the moment you tried to make it the proper decision for all. The point on which you are 100% correct is that the Mako is the perfect AAA light for you. Not only that, but you posted in a thread about neck carry lights, and from that perspective, the Arc of either iteration has everyone beat as the only design that lets the light hang straight down. :thumbsup:


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## cy (Apr 4, 2009)

BM your opinion means a lot to me... how much brighter is the mako on high beam. 

to me ti sapphire has the prettiest ti package, but lacks in output. that's why I switch back to Titan. working under truck's dash installing a Jordan brake controller. this was during the day so I needed Titan's high beam to light up shadows. 

that's 60+ lumens to get the job done... if mako cannot deliver 60+ lumens. then it would fail the job like ti Sapphire. 

what I'd like to see is a millermods type light engine driving a P4 inside ti sapphire. this would have the output and Don's killer ti package too!

sapphire is now just getting started. so my prediction is loads more development yet to come. 



bmstrong said:


> I don't know if there is a thread on the Arc vs. Mako, but as someone who had both and instantly sold the Arc offering? The Mako, IMHO, is so far ahead of those offerings. I understand that might torque some members off but the Mako is the finest AAA light. Period. Two stage. Ti. Tailstand.


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## bmstrong (Apr 6, 2009)

Cy:

_BM your opinion means a lot to me... how much brighter is the mako on high beam. _

Ditto! :thumbsup: 

_to me ti sapphire has the prettiest ti package, but lacks in output. that's why I switch back to Titan. working under truck's dash installing a Jordan brake controller. this was during the day so I needed Titan's high beam to light up shadows. 

that's 60+ lumens to get the job done... if mako cannot deliver 60+ lumens. then it would fail the job like ti Sapphire. _

Yep. Stay with your Titan. I was talking about the Sapphire VS Mako. No contest on high versus the Titan.

_what I'd like to see is a millermods type light engine driving a P4 inside ti sapphire. this would have the output and Don's killer ti package too!

sapphire is now just getting started. so my prediction is loads more development yet to come._

Yeah. I'd like to see a P4 or Cree inside a Mako. The two stage and tailstand, IMHO, make it a far superior package. The nice thing about both is, down the line, they can be modded to catch up with current tech.


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## cy (Apr 6, 2009)

well I sure feel lucky to have snagged a sapphire. it sold out in something like 7 minutes. 

personal preference but for neck lanyard EDC duties, tail stand is of no value. Sapphire's tail is perfect for me! front lens is one sweet design and user serviceable. there's enough material to mill two groove for tritium tubes too. where sapphire falls short is output. 

Mako's two stage light engine is clearly better. but hey things are just getting started with sapphire's winner of a ti package. Mako is a very nice package too. again personal preference, I like the side ways milled slots in sapphire much better!


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## Tixx (Apr 6, 2009)

applevision said:


> ***TEMPORARY LIST OF FOLKS INTERESTED IN A CUSTOM TINY NECK LIGHT IN THE SAME SPIRIT OF THE NOW-DEFUNCT FIREFLI: TINY TITANIUM LIGHT THAT COULD EVEN ACTIVATE UNDERWATER AND BE TOTALLY WEARABLE ON A CHAIN 24/7/365***
> (note: I'm not a maker or a seller--this is truly just an interested-in-the-idea list as I am talking with a few makers to see if they'd consider making something like this. Once it is even a true possibility, I/they will of course start a thread in the appropriate place. Mods, please let me know if you'd rather I keep this off-line or elsewhere.)
> 1. Applevision
> 2. Monkeyboab
> ...



Definitely interested as well


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## applevision (Apr 6, 2009)

Tixx said:


> Definitely interested as well



*Tixx*, you are added!


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## applevision (Apr 7, 2009)

Spence said:


> Right now I'm EDCing the Fenix LD01 Stainless Steel (1 X AAA) limited production....
> As for YOUR neck carry, if your LD01 SS is too big or heavy, have you tried the little pinch, coin cell lights that Battery Junction sends free with their orders? I've received several of them and they are brighter with a better bem than any others I've seen, including those from Lighthound. They are $.99 each if you buy them from Battery Junction but one free with minimum sized orders. BTW I test mine by lighting up my dark bathroom with a ceiling bounce and this little key chain type light works very well. Good luck to ya.



Hey *Spence*, just wanted to thank you for the wisdom. I too carry the LD01 SS on my keychain and love it. I am considering switching to the new NiteCore EZAA (see here: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/228281)

As for those little pinch coin cell lights (based on the Photon, so sometimes cutely called "fauxtons") I have tried them:







The issues with them are two-fold:
1. They don't look so nice
2. They are not as waterproof as I'd like--I wanted to be able to swim in them if need be since I never take off my necklace.

But I agree--these work great and are a fine solution which I have used with great success in the past.

Thank you.

I also wanted to update the comparison chart here as well:


```
[I]               Length          Diameter        Volume:[/I][FONT=courier new]
Firefli        38mm            7mm             1462mm^3
KD             42mm           10mm             3299mm^3
LaPetit        23.25mm        14.25mm          3681mm^3
Eddie          50mm           10mm             3926mm^3[/FONT][FONT=courier new]
Drake          33mm           13mm             4380mm^3[/FONT][FONT=courier new]
AUNOC          67mm           9.5mm            4751mm^3
Nano           37mm           13mm             4910mm^3
Wee            34mm           15mm             6007mm^3
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]Draco          47mm           13mm             6238mm^3[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new]Mako           68mm           13mm             9024mm^3
LD01           73.5mm         14mm           11,314mm^3
Aeon           53.3mm         17.7mm         13,108mm^3
EZAA           83.0mm         16.6mm         17,963mm^3[/FONT]
```


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## kaichu dento (Apr 7, 2009)

cy said:


> what I'd like to see is a millermods type light engine driving a P4 inside ti sapphire. this would have the output and Don's killer ti package too!





bmstrong said:


> Yeah. I'd like to see a P4 or Cree inside a Mako. The two stage and tailstand, IMHO, make it a far superior package. The nice thing about both is, down the line, they can be modded to catch up with current tech.


A P4 in either light would be really nice, especially with two levels, either in the Mako or with a MillerMods in the Sapphire. 

For me the best thing about the Mako is the two levels and no fuss operation, in addition to tailstand capability, but the much smoother beam of the Sapphire, with it's straight hanging capability which is better for necklace carry, makes it a preference call as to which is the best. Suffice to say they're both going to have their followings and a P4 sure couldn't hurt!


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## Zeruel (Apr 7, 2009)

applevision said:


> ***TEMPORARY LIST OF FOLKS INTERESTED IN A CUSTOM TINY NECK LIGHT IN THE SAME SPIRIT OF THE NOW-DEFUNCT FIREFLI: TINY TITANIUM LIGHT THAT COULD EVEN ACTIVATE UNDERWATER AND BE TOTALLY WEARABLE ON A CHAIN 24/7/365***
> (note: I'm not a maker or a seller--this is truly just an interested-in-the-idea list as I am talking with a few makers to see if they'd consider making something like this. Once it is even a true possibility, I/they will of course start a thread in the appropriate place. Mods, please let me know if you'd rather I keep this off-line or elsewhere.)
> 1. Applevision
> 2. Monkeyboab
> ...



:wave: Add me please.


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## applevision (Apr 7, 2009)

Zeruel said:


> :wave: Add me please.



Added!


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## herrgurka (Apr 8, 2009)

Hi applevison,

Please add me to the list. I really enjoyed this thread and with summer coming closer I saw the light and realized that I really have use for a small waterproof light that is wearable 24/7/365. Of course, I ordered a bare Ti Petite Killer and a titanium necklace only yesterday but what can you say, I love variation 

PS It know that 24/7/365 is a common acronym but I find it rather illogical. What if I take off the light one day during a year, would that be 24/7/364 carry? But of what informational use is the 7 in that case? :thinking: I think 24/365 (or in my case 24/364) or 24/7/52 would be more logical.


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## kaichu dento (Apr 8, 2009)

herrgurka said:


> PS It know that 24/7/365 is a common acronym but I find it rather illogical. What if I take off the light one day during a year, would that be 24/7/364 carry? But of what informational use is the 7 in that case? :thinking: I think 24/365 (or in my case 24/364) or 24/7/52 would be more logical.


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## Zeruel (Apr 8, 2009)

herrgurka said:


> PS It know that 24/7/365 is a common acronym but I find it rather illogical. What if I take off the light one day during a year, would that be 24/7/364 carry? But of what informational use is the 7 in that case? :thinking: I think 24/365 (or in my case 24/364) or 24/7/52 would be more logical.




.......


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## cy (Apr 8, 2009)

close enough... what ever you want to call it

those of us that worn a light 7x24 for over a year knows what I'm referring to....


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## applevision (Apr 8, 2009)

herrgurka said:


> Hi applevison,
> 
> Please add me to the list. I really enjoyed this thread and with summer coming closer I saw the light and realized that I really have use for a small waterproof light that is wearable 24/7/365. Of course, I ordered a bare Ti Petite Killer and a titanium necklace only yesterday but what can you say, I love variation
> 
> PS It know that 24/7/365 is a common acronym but I find it rather illogical. What if I take off the light one day during a year, would that be 24/7/364 carry? But of what informational use is the 7 in that case? :thinking: I think 24/365 (or in my case 24/364) or 24/7/52 would be more logical.



 Thanks *herrgurka*! You are added! I agree it is a strange phrase, but I suppose it's best thought of as escalating levels of temporality: 24 hours per day, seven days per week, 365 days per year! Perhaps it should be 60 seconds per minute, 60 minutes per hour... hee hee!


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## Glenn7 (Apr 9, 2009)

maybe not water proof but cool - thought you might be interested  http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/dog-tag-tool/index.html;jsessionid=M0iLclReDuZVKqUTqcufXw**#


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## herrgurka (Apr 9, 2009)

applevision said:


> Thanks *herrgurka*! You are added! I agree it is a strange phrase, but I suppose it's best thought of as escalating levels of temporality: 24 hours per day, seven days per week, 365 days per year! Perhaps it should be 60 seconds per minute, 60 minutes per hour... hee hee!



Hi again,

I'm glad you could see the point since my intention never was to start a 24/7 acronym war in this thread since the tread should be reserved for our common striving towards an easily wearable and comfortable flashlight for neck carry. I've tried my Ti Sapphire on a 22'' silver chain for some days but even though I love the light in itself it didn't wear too comfortable. It's too long for my taste and what's worse, the head is quite sharp with a tendency to mark my sternum. Maybe it would be OK if I had more chest hair or a tougher sternum :naughty:

/paul


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## applevision (Apr 9, 2009)

Glenn7 said:


> maybe not water proof but cool - thought you might be interested  http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/dog-tag-tool/index.html;jsessionid=M0iLclReDuZVKqUTqcufXw**#



Hey *Glenn7*, thanks! That little dog tag light is really neat! Plus a multi-tool! I really like the "pendant-like" form factor and imagine that it would be pretty comfortable to wear. I might have to pick one up! Thanks!

Some pics:


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## Glenn7 (Apr 9, 2009)

Hey no probs :twothumbs they are interesting


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## herrgurka (Apr 9, 2009)

+1 on the pendant shape of the dog tag light. 

Unfortunately the whole point of a 24/7 light is that you should be able to forget about it until you need the light, and with the dog tag light that could be some major hassle for us more or less frequent flyers. Though it looks rather harmless I'm sure security at an airport has a different take on the matter and pop goes another EDC-item of mine into the big dustbin :green:. After the loss of both a Swiss Army Knive and a Leatherman Squirt I've become more careful but I prefer a single light without any blades attached.....


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## applevision (Apr 9, 2009)

herrgurka said:


> +1 on the pendant shape of the dog tag light.
> 
> Unfortunately the whole point of a 24/7 light is that you should be able to forget about it until you need the light, and with the dog tag light that could be some major hassle for us more or less frequent flyers. Though it looks rather harmless I'm sure security at an airport has a different take on the matter and pop goes another EDC-item of mine into the big dustbin :green:. After the loss of both a Swiss Army Knive and a Leatherman Squirt I've become more careful but I prefer a single light without any blades attached.....


 
Excellent point.

With the "FireFli Redux" (codename only... it's still a twinkle in my eye and the would-be builder's eye!), this would not be an issue.


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## paulr (Apr 10, 2009)

What about giving up on the necklace carry method. There are some wristwatches with built-in led lights, if you wear your watch all the time.


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## HKJ (Apr 10, 2009)

applevision said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> With the "FireFli Redux" (codename only... it's still a twinkle in my eye and the would-be builder's eye!), this would not be an issue.



I would also like to see that kind of small quality light.


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## Zeruel (Apr 10, 2009)

applevision said:


> (note: I'm not a maker or a seller--this is truly just an interested-in-the-idea list as I am talking with a few makers to see if they'd consider making something like this.



Any developments? :naughty:


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## applevision (Apr 10, 2009)

paulr said:


> What about giving up on the necklace carry method. There are some wristwatches with built-in led lights, if you wear your watch all the time.


Good point, *paulr*. But I do have my FireFli already and LOVE IT. It does exactly everything I ever wanted. My only concern is that if it ever breaks I'm up a creek! And I want to share this wonderful concept with the world! I don't wear a watch all the time, especially at bedtime when this thing gets used the most, getting up to go to the bathroom or get a drink of water. It's amazing how cool it is to have light on you always...



HKJ said:


> I would also like to see that kind of small quality light.


*HKJ* you are added to the list! 



Zeruel said:


> Any developments? :naughty:


 None yet... I spoke with another maker who seemed interested but I've not heard anything. I don't want to pester him...


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## scout24 (Apr 10, 2009)

Applevision-
Please add me to the list of those who are interested. Thanks for following through on this.
Greg


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## applevision (Apr 10, 2009)

scout24 said:


> Applevision-
> Please add me to the list of those who are interested. Thanks for following through on this.
> Greg



Added! Thanks!


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## Zeruel (Apr 10, 2009)

applevision said:


> None yet... I spoke with another maker who seemed interested but I've not heard anything. I don't want to pester him...



How about Sabrewolf?


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## HKJ (Apr 10, 2009)

Zeruel said:


> How about Sabrewolf?



His designs are to big, PhotonFanatic might be a much better guy for this. I believe that anybody could order something like a Firefli from him, and he would make it. It might even be better than the original FireFli. I like his work, and do not believe that he would make a copy of the original FireFli, but would prefer to make his own design.


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## Zeruel (Apr 10, 2009)

HKJ said:


> His designs are to big, PhotonFanatic might be a much better guy for this. I believe that anybody could order something like a Firefli from him, and he would make it. It might even be better than the original FireFli. I like his work, and do not believe that he would make a copy of the original FireFli, but would prefer to make his own design.



True, but he's the obvious choice, probably the first Apple asked. If he would not make a copy of Firefli, and prefers to make his own design.... in my opinion, he already did. With La Petit Killer.


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## HKJ (Apr 10, 2009)

Zeruel said:


> True, but he's the obvious choice, probably the first Apple asked. If he would not make a copy of Firefli, and prefers to make his own design.... in my opinion, he already did. With La Petit Killer.



Both the Killer and La Petite Killer are very nice designs (I have both), but I would also like something like the FireFli and I am convinced that PhotonFanatic would be the right guy to do it, but he might need some help with the electronic part. I know that the electroni for the FireFli is very simple to non-existence, but something is needed to mount the led on and connect the pins to the batteries.


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## Zeruel (Apr 10, 2009)

HKJ said:


> Both the Killer and La Petite Killer are very nice designs (I have both), but I would also like something like the FireFli and I am convinced that PhotonFanatic would be the right guy to do it, but he might need some help with the electronic part. I know that the electroni for the FireFli is very simple to non-existence, but something is needed to mount the led on and connect the to pins to the batteries.



If he could and would, by all means, I'm trying to exhaust all possibilities for Apple.... and for us.


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## PhotonFanatic (Apr 10, 2009)

Someone just pointed me to this thread, which I had started reading a while ago, but then forgot. 

Seems as though there is considerable interest in a small necklace type of light. I have actually thought about this a long time ago, after the LPK was designed, and came up with this as a concept; it is meant to be a piece of wearable jewelry that could function as an emergency light. It is gold colored as I thought that doing it in gold would appeal to women:







Modeled dimensions are .76" (19mm) long and .43" (11mm) at the widest section.

Mind you, I haven't made one of these--it would be difficult to do on a manual lathe, although I could do a prototype to check out the overall internal dimensions and fit.

Also, the switch needs to be addressed--I was planning on adding some axial grooves so that when the two pieces are unscrewed, the light would turn on. But it might be possible to make the jump ring function as a switch, too.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Apr 10, 2009)

What about a removable switch? When you remove the light from the neckchain by pulling, it turns on and turns off when you reattach it to the neckchain. Very K.I.S.S.


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## applevision (Apr 10, 2009)

PhotonFanatic said:


> Someone just pointed me to this thread, which I had started reading a while ago, but then forgot.
> 
> Seems as though there is considerable interest in a small necklace type of light. I have actually thought about this a long time ago, after the LPK was designed, and came up with this as a concept; it is meant to be a piece of wearable jewelry that could function as an emergency light. It is gold colored as I thought that doing it in gold would appeal to women:
> 
> Modeled dimensions are .76" (19mm) long and .43" (11mm) at the widest section.



Fellas--you guys rock! As my two-year old son says it: "Holy Cra*t*!"

This is moving in a new direction and I am super excited! I did not approach *PhotonFanatic* though I am a HUGE fan of his work. All I can say is check out where this little light would fall on the chart... it is insanity!!


```
[FONT=courier new]
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]              LENGTH:       DIAMETER:          VOLUME:  [/FONT]
[FONT=courier new][B]PFanatic       19mm           11mm             1200mm^3[/B]
Firefli        38mm            7mm             1462mm^3
KD             42mm           10mm             3299mm^3
LaPetit        23.25mm        14.25mm          3681mm^3
Eddie          50mm           10mm             3926mm^3[/FONT][FONT=courier new]
Drake          33mm           13mm             4380mm^3[/FONT][FONT=courier new]
AUNOC          67mm           9.5mm            4751mm^3
Nano           37mm           13mm             4910mm^3
Wee            34mm           15mm             6007mm^3
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]Draco          47mm           13mm             6238mm^3[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new]Mako           68mm           13mm             9024mm^3
LD01           73.5mm         14mm           11,314mm^3
Aeon           53.3mm         17.7mm         13,108mm^3
EZAA           83.0mm         16.6mm         17,963mm^3[/FONT]
```
It would be even less than the volume of the FireFli!!*

I can say, without hesitation, that if this light is made and is fairly durable, water-resistant and as functional as a FireFli, I will by at least 5 of them for friends so long as they are priced below $100 per. If these could be made for less than $50 a peice and were packaged well, I would get one of these for everyone I know practically. It would be a gift of gifts. A true PHIAL OF GALADRIEL: A LIGHT WHEN ALL OTHER LIGHTS GO OUT! 


*note, I used 4/3 x Pi x (radius of height) x (radius of width) x (radius length) which is the formula for calculating the volume of an ellipsoid which this appears to be.


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## Zeruel (Apr 11, 2009)

Thanks for chiming in, PF! 
If there's anything I learnt around here, it's that the finished products ALWAYS look better than the initial drawings. Not that the drawing is bad, but I was taken aback momentarily by the lemon-like structure. And the more I think about it, the more I like it. Very unique design and I've not seen a roundish kind of light. :thumbsup: Very well thought out too, considering there are no sharp corners against the skin.

My 2¢ please:

I assume that white nipple is the optic lens? Is it possible to be recessed within the body?

As you've suggested, it will be a great gift for the other half. But can there be an option for guys like me who prefers no bling?  I think there was a discussion on the best material for daily wear, perhaps the conclusion was titanium? Gold might be a bit too soft, especially for wrestlers like Sgt Led oo:


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## Glenn7 (Apr 11, 2009)

just be careful not to squeeze too hard on it - nothing worse than lemon juice in the eye


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## PhotonFanatic (Apr 11, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> What about a removable switch? When you remove the light from the neckchain by pulling, it turns on and turns off when you reattach it to the neckchain. Very K.I.S.S.



Well, either one would need to use some sort of compressible material, which would eventually wear out, and potentially allow the light to fall off, or the mechanism would have to involve some sort of detent, with a spring and ball bearing, which seems a bit hard to cram into what little space there is inside that egg shaped light. 

But if you can design a good, reliable switch as you suggested, I'd be more than willing to consider it.

As for the other points raised--sure it doesn't have to be gold, Ti would be great, too, imo. 
The protruding white dome is the tip of the 3mm LED. Recessing it would mean making the body longer, and heavier, of course. If the light were to be used only as a neck light, I see no problem with the LED protruding. Besides, it gets cleaned off every time you take a shower. :devil:

BTW, the in-house name for the light was the "_*Breast Enlightener*_", but given the need to be PC, perhaps a better name might be found.


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## applevision (Apr 11, 2009)

PhotonFanatic said:


> BTW, the in-house name for the light was the "_*Breast Enlightener*_", but given the need to be PC, perhaps a better name might be found.



I am in like Flynn on this one! 

As for a name... I like the concept of the Breast Enlightener... hee hee... but for us barbarians it would cast a light around you like this:






So what if it were called Light Radius?!

Or +1 Light Radius?

And that's its purpose--to cast a radius of light around you in the darkness...

OMG... I am in love with this light already! 
+1 Light Radius FTW!

*Had ANOTHER thought about "Light Radius"... perfect name for another reason: as it is almost spherical, "radius" is also apropos! This is it!!!


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## applevision (Apr 11, 2009)

Sorry to double post but I'm manic.

So I think that the +1 Light Radius is brilliant (as you can tell) and I want it badly.

I think that the FireFli folks had several great ideas:

1. Using Zinc batteries--apparently these are among the most efficient AND environmentally friendly/friendlier. 

2. Having and "unscrew" mechanism to turn on. While this means it is not waterproof when on, I think that could be okay. What's nice is that, with 1 hand I can grip the light and just twisting against the chain can activate it. Then it stays on, no fuss, until I turn it off. 

Alternatively, a little tiny rubberized clicky (waterproof, of course) could work in the back. Imagine a tiny rubber nub that you have to click in to activate. That would look less elegant but be very slick and easy to use...


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Apr 11, 2009)

PhotonFanatic said:


> Well, either one would need to use some sort of compressible material, which would eventually wear out, and potentially allow the light to fall off, or the mechanism would have to involve some sort of detent, with a spring and ball bearing, which seems a bit hard to cram into what little space there is inside that egg shaped light.
> 
> But if you can design a good, reliable switch as you suggested, I'd be more than willing to consider it.
> 
> BTW, the in-house name for the light was the "_*Breast Enlightener*_", but given the need to be PC, perhaps a better name might be found.



I'll think about a design and how to describe it. As for a name, how about The Golden Egg?


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## Zeruel (Apr 13, 2009)

:thinking:
Orbit
Micro Killer
Citrine
Seed
Sputnik


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## Incidentalist (Apr 23, 2009)

Add me to the list of interested persons for this 'Firefli-like' light as I too share your love of the smaller lights.


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## applevision (Apr 23, 2009)

Incidentalist said:


> Add me to the list of interested persons for this 'Firefli-like' light as I too share your love of the smaller lights.



Done! And thanks, *Incidentalist*!

Also: updated the chart in post #1.


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## Phos4 (Apr 23, 2009)

hey apple

this is a wonderful thread

i have lurked for a long time around here and i've long been an incandescent fan, but these little LEDs have got me thinking! they are really a new tool, something that never existed before.

i like that movie with tom hanks: cast away. he needed fire but didn't have it, needed light but didn't have it. imagine if he got a firefli light on that island! would have changed everything... well, at least till the batts died... 

thanks to all for making this place so great!


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## NonSenCe (Apr 23, 2009)

The Seed. yeah i like that name. 
The Grain. better imo.

Radii or Radious sounds nice.
or Radii Lite (light radius is bit long)

Rad-Lite hmm would need to be a bit more "Manly" light to earn the name Rad! hahhah

RadiLite or The Grain those are my favorites.


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## JLEGG (Apr 23, 2009)

put me down for 1
Ti would probably be best way to go


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## applevision (Apr 24, 2009)

JLEGG said:


> put me down for 1
> Ti would probably be best way to go



Done, thanks *JLEGG*!


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## Viper715 (Apr 24, 2009)

Put me down for one. I currently neck cary my Liteflux LF2X so far it's the best light I have had for this purpose but always looking for something better.


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## herrgurka (Apr 24, 2009)

I like the names put forwards so long but none of them refers to the 24/7 light's primary goal: unconditional EDC-qualities as a small neck chain light. Unfortunately my qualifications as a copy writer are very meagre but here are some suggestions:

The keeper
The neck (referring to both it's main mode of carry and the shape shifting water spirit called "näcken" in Swedish )
Doomsday (you can carry it till.....)

On another note my Petit Killer has been in 24/7 service for over a week now and I'm very satisfied. I like the size and find it very comfortable to wear even at night. Though it's far from the brightest small light I own it has served me well. Yesterday I forgot about it in the sauna until the titanium had heated up enough to quickly remind me about it (never a problem with my silver necklace but silver conducts heat way better). Being a cautious person I left the sauna and placed the Killer in my locker. Afterwards I tried the Killer and it worked flawlessly, despite it's rather hot escapade.....


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## kaichu dento (Apr 24, 2009)

herrgurka said:


> On another note my Petit Killer has been in 24/7 service for over a week now and I'm very satisfied. I like the size and find it very comfortable to wear even at night. Though it's far from the brightest small light I own it has served me well. Yesterday I forgot about it in the sauna until the titanium had heated up enough to quickly remind me about it (never a problem with my silver necklace but silver conducts heat way better). Being a cautious person I left the sauna and placed the Killer in my locker. Afterwards I tried the Killer and it worked flawlessly, despite it's rather hot escapade.....


I can't imagine any decent light with o-rings having a problem. I wear my Draco in the hot springs about three times a week with no troubles. Besides, if heat was going to hurt one of these lights I think they get hotter on their own than they would in the sauna.


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## Cuso (Apr 24, 2009)

herrgurka said:


> Yesterday I forgot about it in the sauna until the titanium had heated up enough to quickly remind me about it (never a problem with my silver necklace but silver conducts heat way better).


HUH?? Are you sure that's was a sauna?? Sounds more like a BBQ to me..:laughing:


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## applevision (Apr 24, 2009)

Viper715 said:


> Put me down for one. I currently neck cary my Liteflux LF2X so far it's the best light I have had for this purpose but always looking for something better.



Done *Viper715*, thanks!



herrgurka said:


> I like the names put forwards so long but none of them refers to the 24/7 light's primary goal: unconditional EDC-qualities as a small neck chain light. Unfortunately my qualifications as a copy writer are very meagre but here are some suggestions:
> 
> The keeper
> The neck (referring to both it's main mode of carry and the shape shifting water spirit called "näcken" in Swedish )
> Doomsday (you can carry it till.....)



Ohh... I like Näcken a lot! 



kaichu dento said:


> I can't imagine any decent light with o-rings having a problem. I wear my Draco in the hot springs about three times a week with no troubles. Besides, if heat was going to hurt one of these lights I think they get hotter on their own than they would in the sauna.



Amazing! I think it is time I get a Drake or Draco...



Cuso said:


> HUH?? Are you sure that's was a sauna?? Sounds more like a BBQ to me..:laughing:



Hee hee! I know the feeling--same thing happens to my eyeglasses frame!


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## herrgurka (Apr 24, 2009)

Cuso said:


> HUH?? Are you sure that's was a sauna?? Sounds more like a BBQ to me..:laughing:



Well, you could say that I got my neck medium rare :naughty:

Actually, it was Sauna Swedish style, 110 degrees Celsius (230 F) and very low humidity.............. I have no LED-light that gets that warm on its own.

And the Drake, well, I' sure would love to order one of those.................................


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Apr 24, 2009)

applevision said:


> Ohh... I like Näcken a lot!


I like Näcken too.




> Amazing! I think it is time I get a Drake or Draco...


Draco is on my must buy list. Saving my pennies for a TiN with all options. That is the only reason I never asked to be on your list for the new ultra small Näcken.


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## herrgurka (Apr 24, 2009)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> I like Näcken too.
> 
> 
> 
> Draco is on my must buy list. Saving my pennies for a TiN with all options. That is the only reason I never asked to be on your list for the new ultra small Näcken.



OK guys and girls, here a little lecture in art history: The very famous Swedish painting "Näcken" by Ernst Josephsson (1851-1906), picturing a male water spirit playing enchanted songs on the violin, luring women and children.....


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Apr 24, 2009)

herrgurka said:


> OK guys and girls, here a little lecture in art history: The very famous Swedish painting "Näcken" by Ernst Josephsson (1851-1906), picturing a male water spirit playing enchanted songs on the violin, luring women and children.....




Flashlights attract children, but repel women. Maybe Näcken isn't quite right. If it attracted children and adults with child like minds...


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## applevision (Apr 25, 2009)

herrgurka said:


> OK guys and girls, here a little lecture in art history: The very famous Swedish painting "Näcken" by Ernst Josephsson (1851-1906), picturing a male water spirit playing enchanted songs on the violin, luring women and children.../
> 
> 
> > Perhaps it should be called "Nya Näcken"!
> ...


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## Zendude (Apr 26, 2009)

Come on @pple! You know you want to call it _Galadriel..._or _The Phial..._or _Phial of Light..._or how about _Apples Star._...believe it or not I was only kidding about the last one."May it be a light for you in dark places...":candle:


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## kaichu dento (Apr 26, 2009)

I don't know if any of these names is it, but I like this line of thought. Come up with some more Zen.


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## Zendude (Apr 26, 2009)

I was just playing off of his love for LOTR. He has been pretty passionate about this and I thought the name should reflect a little bit of him. If we changed Photons design to look more like an apple than a lemon then Applelight or Applestar could work.Actually the first thing I thought of when I saw that design was Lemonhead.


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## applevision (Apr 26, 2009)

Zendude said:


> I was just playing off of his love for LOTR. He has been pretty passionate about this and I thought the name should reflect a little bit of him. If we changed Photons design to look more like an apple than a lemon then Applelight or Applestar could work.Actually the first thing I thought of when I saw that design was Lemonhead.



Hee hee hee!

Yep, I'm a Lord of the Rings fan, no doubt!

I guess if I had my druthers, I would call it *Undómiel* which in English is "Evenstar"... Actually the Evenstar would be a great name for a light! 

Fellas?!


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## kaichu dento (Apr 26, 2009)

applevision said:


> Hee hee hee!
> 
> Yep, I'm a Lord of the Rings fan, no doubt!
> 
> ...


I like it! Undomiel really has a Tolkien atmosphere to it.


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## herrgurka (Apr 26, 2009)

+1 for Undómiel, even though I really liked "nya näcken" :devil:


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## Zendude (Apr 27, 2009)

applevision said:


> Hee hee hee!
> 
> Yep, I'm a Lord of the Rings fan, no doubt!
> 
> ...



Well, dig out those druthers! Proclaim it to the world!* It shall hence forth be known as* *Undomiel!*(I don't know how to make the apostrophe over the o)

On second thought...maybe not...most people wouldn't get it.



kaichu dento said:


> I like it! Undomiel really has a Tolkien atmosphere to it.



It should! It's probably a direct translation of Tolkiens' fictitious(and elegant) language!

Cheers!


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## Lumenz (Apr 27, 2009)

How about the "Northstar" - the light that will always help you find your way?


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## kaichu dento (Apr 27, 2009)

Zendude said:


> Well, dig out those druthers! Proclaim it to the world!* It shall hence forth be known as* *Undomiel!*
> 
> 
> It should! It's probably a direct translation of Tolkiens' fictitious(and elegant) language!
> ...


Undomiel, Undomiel, I long for thee...  lovecpf

You're right about the language being elegant, but Tolkien, as a linguist, actually created whole sets of usable languages and the Hobbit/Lord of the Rings trilogy were vehicles for their usage as much as they were about writing a story. Haven't read it in a few years but it's probably time to dig out the books once again which I have been reading since I was in the 2nd grade! :twothumbs


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## kaichu dento (Apr 27, 2009)

Wu, please delete your spam post. You have just joined this forum and your first post is to put an ad about a AA light into this thread. :duh2:

The only reason the EZAA was included in this thread was it's incredibly small dimensions for a AA.

I would have sent you a PM, but since you have only made one post in CPF you don't have PM privileges yet.


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## JLEGG (Apr 27, 2009)

since u guys have given me so much info on the small lights i couldn't decide between the wee and drake, so i just ordered both of them.
at least they take the same batt.


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## applevision (Apr 27, 2009)

Whoo hooo!

You guys rock! Now if only one of the makers picks up on this vibe and brings us a dynamite little light!! We have at the very least 25 folks interested in this thing. If it's under $50 I will probably by 4 of them--2 for me and 2 for my friends... and if they are $25, I will probably get 8 of them... maybe even 10 since I could use them as gifts for favorite folks... 

Makers! Please hear our plea! 

Deliver us _*Undómiel*!_*

JLEGG*! I am so excited for you!!! I know you will love the Wee--it's gorgeous... but now I need to order a Drake too! I'm going to pull trigger right now! We are all manic about our tiny lights!


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## fisk-king (Apr 27, 2009)

put me down as well as those who are interested. a neck lite w/ about 10 lumens sounds pretty good:thumbsup:


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## PhotonFanatic (Apr 27, 2009)

Just to be realistic here, there's no way that I'd be able to produce any light for $25, in any metal--my machine shop would die of laughter. :devil:

And if it were to be in Ti, then anything less than $75 would be great, too, but I doubt that would happen.

Of course, we could outsource this to China.


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## applevision (Apr 27, 2009)

PhotonFanatic said:


> Just to be realistic here, there's no way that I'd be able to produce any light for $25, in any metal--my machine shop would die of laughter. :devil:
> 
> And if it were to be in Ti, then anything less than $75 would be great, too, but I doubt that would happen.
> 
> Of course, we could outsource this to China.



Fred! :bow:Hear our plea!:bow:
Okay, we were ungrateful and just fantasizing about cheap lights...:whoopin: 

But seriously, you have 2 orders from me _bare minimum_ if it's priced at $100! My gut tells me that Ti would be the best for this, but that Al could still be divine! As could stainless! Because it is so tiny, the weight should be fairly minimal... Just make us some magic like the LPK... only even tinier... a light that looks almost like a medallion on the chain... and then  burns with the flame of _Udûn_! (see footnote: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/flameofudun.html)

lovecpflovecpflovecpf

p.s. Fred, there is another similar thread here that has some new ideas and developments. Please have a look-see if you haven't yet! Thanks and ever thanks! https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/229843 (esp. page 2!)


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## wvaltakis2 (Apr 28, 2009)

*How about the TiFli?*

So I've been meaning to make myself a FireFli ever since the ONE time I saw one at a get together, but between Sabrewolf turning me on to this thread AND my scoring a bunch of 5/16" 3AL-2V I really had no excuse anymore. This is a rough prototype based on what I can remember of the FireFli I saw a while back. It uses the same zinc-air batteries and a random 5mm I had laying around. It does exhibit some odd behavior in that it takes a while to turn off, and never really seems to go out all the way. It does brighten right back up once you expose the airhole... I can't remember if the original had a similar quirk? Oh well, worst case I just redesign the tail like a normal twisty. Anyway, on to the pics...sorry for the quality, but I wasn't going to set up the tent again tonight. I'll probably anodize it and get better pics tomorrow:naughty:.






















Let me know what you think, if you guys really want 'em I could probably bring them in at ~$100 with a premium LED from one of our fellow CPF'ers.

~Chip


----------



## fitzDaug (Apr 28, 2009)

applevision, I'm also a Tolkien fan (look at my avatar).

I'd prefer the Westron translation of Undomiel as I associate Undomiel with Arwen and she really doesn't have anything to do with light.

How about the Earendili? This references directly with starlight.

I currently EDC a Mako around my neck, but I would be interested in this light of yours.

Put me on the list.




applevision said:


> Hee hee hee!
> 
> Yep, I'm a Lord of the Rings fan, no doubt!
> 
> ...


----------



## Zendude (Apr 28, 2009)

applevision said:


> Fred! :bow:Hear our plea!:bow:
> a light that looks almost like a medallion on the chain... and then  burns with the flame of _Udûn_!



Dude! You're killing me!

Your lore is deep my friend!

But seriously, has anybody thought about a medallion style light? Almost a small pocket watch style, with a 3mm LED in the center facing forward(Breast Enlightener indeed!). Maybe the size of a quarter. The switch could be like an old pocket watch winder i.e. a quarter turn to activate it,another quarter turn to turn it off again. A square pin interrupting the circuit until its turned. 0 and 180 degrees of the pin are insulated and 90 and 270 conductive. I know...I'm probably not making any sense. The pin insertion could be sealed from the elements similar to a watch. The design *should* allow for a larger coin cell. You could also put a cool design on it(like Hieroglyphics...or flames... or a *dragons* maw!)




Wow! Seems while I was typing the above idea wvaltakis2 may have reforged the sword that was broken! 

At least we know what it should be called!:naughty:


----------



## kaichu dento (Apr 28, 2009)

Zendude said:


> Dude! You're killing me!
> 
> Your lore is deep my friend!
> 
> ...


This sounds very close to what I'd be interested in and I love your switch idea, but would prefer if the four positions had only one off, and the other three the classic low-med-high and a shroud around the 3mm led to stop light blowback. 

I'm really hoping for Fred to get involved in this too, as we already know what he can bring forth in the way of killer anodizing! :twothumbs


----------



## moeman (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: How about the TiFli?*



wvaltakis2 said:


> So I've been meaning to make myself a FireFli ever since the ONE time I saw one at a get together, but between Sabrewolf turning me on to this thread AND my scoring a bunch of 5/16" 3AL-2V I really had no excuse anymore. This is a rough prototype based on what I can remember of the FireFli I saw a while back. It uses the same zinc-air batteries and a random 5mm I had laying around. It does exhibit some odd behavior in that it takes a while to turn off, and never really seems to go out all the way. It does brighten right back up once you expose the airhole... I can't remember if the original had a similar quirk? Oh well, worst case I just redesign the tail like a normal twisty. Anyway, on to the pics...sorry for the quality, but I wasn't going to set up the tent again tonight. I'll probably anodize it and get better pics tomorrow:naughty:.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hi Chip,
that is pretty sweet!
I think the original worked around the staying lit problem by isolating the current when the light was turned off.

I like yours...



chris


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## scout24 (Apr 28, 2009)

Sign me up! paypal ready...:twothumbs


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## wvaltakis2 (Apr 28, 2009)

kaichu dento said:


> I'm really hoping for Fred to get involved in this too, as we already know what he can bring forth in the way of killer anodizing! :twothumbs


:thinking:You do know that I've done most of Fred's ano work, right...

~Chip


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## applevision (Apr 28, 2009)

wvaltakis2 said:


> So I've been meaning to make myself a FireFli ever since the ONE time I saw one at a get together, but between Sabrewolf turning me on to this thread AND my scoring a bunch of 5/16" 3AL-2V I really had no excuse anymore. This is a rough prototype based on what I can remember of the FireFli I saw a while back. It uses the same zinc-air batteries and a random 5mm I had laying around. It does exhibit some odd behavior in that it takes a while to turn off, and never really seems to go out all the way. It does brighten right back up once you expose the airhole... I can't remember if the original had a similar quirk? Oh well, worst case I just redesign the tail like a normal twisty. Anyway, on to the pics...sorry for the quality, but I wasn't going to set up the tent again tonight. I'll probably anodize it and get better pics tomorrow:naughty:.
> Let me know what you think, if you guys really want 'em I could probably bring them in at ~$100 with a premium LED from one of our fellow CPF'ers.
> ~Chip




*wvaltakis2*, I am so in!!!

However, when I saw it in the dark, lustrous metal, I did not think good, happy thoughts... It felt more like this:

"You offer it to me freely?" (click the link below for a youtube video segment--that's what the "splicd" thing is--it just cuts to the part of the video I want to show you!)
http://splicd.com/JANVbw-XDT4/47/92

But seriously, this is a MAGNIFICENT light and there really is nothing like it right now! Imagine the power of the Zinc-Air batts and a state-of-the art LED... 

[Note: Can we just stop a moment and realize that I am doing the super nerd-dance in my house and my wife is going to have me committed?! Two of my favorite hobbies: Lord of the Rings and Flashlights are coming together in a way that not even I had imagined... hee hee!]

[Another Note: This has long been my favorite thread in CPF, but can I say that now it is BY FAR the greatest thread? I almost wish there were a little symbol in addition to stickies--like a Classic Thread symbol or something! This thread is worthy!]



fitzDaug said:


> applevision, I'm also a Tolkien fan (look at my avatar).
> 
> I'd prefer the Westron translation of Undomiel as I associate Undomiel with Arwen and she really doesn't have anything to do with light.
> 
> ...


*fitzDaug*, you are added, mellon! (Mellon is Elvish for friend, of course!:thumbsup: on the avatar!) I love _Eärendil_ (check out my sig!) but I worry that it is a little tough to spell--not that Undomiel is much better! :laughing: 



Zendude said:


> Dude! You're killing me!
> 
> Your lore is deep my friend!
> 
> ...



Okay, 100% agree with this form factor as well... I kind of feel like the TiFli should be one version (since I felt Ringlust for it!), and then we could do the _Eärendil, _imagined by *Zendude* and named by *fitzDaug*! The _Eärendil _could be light or even gold (as Fred imagined) and would be more jewelry-like... while the TiFli (or perhaps we could call it _Andúril_, (Sindarin for "*Flame of the West*"!!!!!) would be darker.

I'm in for both! Thank you guys for making my day!!! :twothumbs


----------



## kaichu dento (Apr 28, 2009)

wvaltakis2 said:


> :thinking:You do know that I've done most of Fred's ano work, right...
> 
> ~Chip


Can't wait to see what finish you come up with for the tiny light, assuming that he ends up making one...


----------



## gollum (Apr 28, 2009)

My Precioussss :devil:


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## PhotonFanatic (Apr 28, 2009)

I nominate Chip to be the Creator of the ???. Seriously, he does do great anodizing, so you could get your light in any of the possible Ti anodizing colors. Plus, he could use something to keep him out of trouble. :devil: Personally, I'm got enough troubles as it is--so I really don't need another light build.


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## herrgurka (Apr 28, 2009)

Great prototype, Chip! 

I'm definitely in for one of those, and if it keeps you out of trouble ordering one is almost a civic duty :devil:

For my part it doesn't have to be anodized, but if you insist it would have to be dark blue and gold for this old Swede......

I wonder a little about the benefit of zinc-air batteries (I've never used them, only seen my Granddad put them into his hearing aid).

/paul


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## wvaltakis2 (Apr 28, 2009)

*Played around with the anodizer...*

Polished it up for those who thought it was too dark and gave it a "Pilon special" ano job, silver and gold on light blue(almost teal). I also did a test spectrum to check how this 3al4v anodizes...obviously it does just fine.




















What 5mm would you guys like to see in these? I can talk to some people and see what's available.

Do you guys like the constant on thing? I kind of dig it, but I've been sent a drawing of the FireFli so I should be able to get an actual disconnect figured out.

~Chip


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## MKLight (Apr 29, 2009)

Chip, 

If it doesn't drain the battery significantly, it could be used as the lowest low on a light!  Nice work so far! Looking forward to when it's brought to market!

Thanks,
MK


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## Skeptic (Apr 29, 2009)

That light is pretty cool. If the price is right, I would be in for one or two of those lights. 

Love the anodizing on your light there Chip! 

Applevision please add me to the list.


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## kaichu dento (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Played around with the anodizer...*



wvaltakis2 said:


> What 5mm would you guys like to see in these? I can talk to some people and see what's available.


That is one of my favorite patterns you've come up with so far! 

I would really love to see at least two changes, and I may be the only one thinking an led shroud would be nice, but I think a lot of us would be interested in seeing it with the 3mm emitter instead.

That thing is absolutely gorgeous!


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## jch79 (Apr 29, 2009)

Chip,
Great job! :twothumbs - and even though I own more keychain lights than I do KEYS, mark me down for one of your ______ lights! 
:thumbsup: john


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## HKJ (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: Played around with the anodizer...*



wvaltakis2 said:


> What 5mm would you guys like to see in these? I can talk to some people and see what's available.
> 
> Do you guys like the constant on thing? I kind of dig it, but I've been sent a drawing of the FireFli so I should be able to get an actual disconnect figured out.



I would like one of these lights, but I like the rainbow color scheme. I would like a led with white light and maybe the light need to protect the led a little better.


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## scout24 (Apr 29, 2009)

Absolutely beautiful!


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## coyote (Apr 29, 2009)

lovely!

and i agree with:_ "...maybe the light need to protect the led a little better...."_
in fact, i would prefer the LED be recessed entirely, so the user doesn't get all that back-glare.


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## Zendude (Apr 29, 2009)

Wow! That is beautiful!:huh:

Aren't most 5mm LEDs prefocused? As for protecting the LED; aren't they encased in epoxy or something? I doubt there is much that could really harm it as long as it is seated securely.

I think it should stay the way it is. Keep it in the spirit of "Light Radius"


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## Zeruel (Apr 29, 2009)

coyote said:


> lovely!
> 
> and i agree with:_ "...maybe the light need to protect the led a little better...."_
> in fact, *i would prefer the LED be recessed entirely*, so the user doesn't get all that back-glare.



*+10*

Beautiful work btw. :thumbsup:


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## fitzDaug (Apr 30, 2009)

Chip, your anodized prototype looks great. It would be real sweet if it can meet *applevision's *requested features.

As for possible anodize colors, you can check out this site for possibilities http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm

Specifically, just look at The Eldar section. My personal picks would be the House of Finarfin and The House of the Golden Flower.

What say you, *applevision*?

Any of the names would work. You can even go with *Vingilot, *the name of the ship Earendil used to bore the light.

Again, I want to give Chip his props. That prototype looks terrific.



applevision said:


> *wvaltakis2*, I am so in!!!
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> ...


----------



## JLEGG (Apr 30, 2009)

I want a rainbow one.
would be an eye catcher.
or maybe red, white and blue.
or maybe a red one.
wow i can't make up my mind.


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## wvaltakis2 (Apr 30, 2009)

*TiFli version 2*

Fully recessed LED, a 4th cell like the original FF and a hole big enough for a Ti chain (I think). It also has a traditional twist for on setup


























I'll probably go dip it now, let me know what you think

~Chip


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## Incidentalist (Apr 30, 2009)

Let's see, is there an emoticon for my feeling? Why yes, yes there is! 

I'll definitely sign up for 1, maybe 2 (depends on price).


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## Glenn7 (Apr 30, 2009)

love the recessed one :thumbsup: - PUT ME DOWN FOR ONE PLEASE (or should i get 2? )  :wave:


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## kaichu dento (Apr 30, 2009)

*Re: TiFli version 2*



wvaltakis2 said:


> Fully recessed LED, a 4th cell like the original FF and a hole big enough for a Ti chain (I think). It also has a traditional twist for on setup
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn that is so cool! Can't wait to see the colors! Love the large hole that makes a split ring unnecessary too!


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## wrencher (Apr 30, 2009)

Hey Chip
That looks great. I will need one. Did you get my last PM about the clip?
Thanks

wrencher


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## wvaltakis2 (Apr 30, 2009)

Light and dark blue on gold:thumbsup:











Wrencher- Sorry, been a little busy I will shoot you the total on that clip shortly

~Chip


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## wrencher (May 1, 2009)

Yes I can see you have been hard at it. The total including in the light right. JK. Thanks

wrencher


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## wvaltakis2 (May 1, 2009)

*TiFli sales*

Hey guys,

I've been thinking about how to handle sales on these and I think I've figured it out. First a couple of things though, mainly the fact that these will all essentially one off's. I don't have the money right now to pay a machine shop to do these and I refuse to do massive prepays so I'm just going to have to do them all myself. Don't get me wrong, any work right now is a blessinglovecpf. The other thing you'll have to understand is the balance with the other projects going on, mainly pocketclips and misc. anodizing. I will try to whip out as many as I can for a fair price, so don't worry too much.:thumbsup: I think they will probably start at $75 with ano being extra...

What I will probably do is start a sales thread with a sign up list. I will then work my way down the list with buyers paying the day I start machining their light, with the light shipping the next day more than likely. I think, with a little practice I could do 4-5 lights per day so nobody should have to wait too long

Let me know how that sounds, and thanks again everybody.

~Chip

p.s. I've got some 5/16" tri-color mokume for some "Fancy-fli's"


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## applevision (May 1, 2009)

Skeptic said:


> That light is pretty cool. If the price is right, I would be in for one or two of those lights.
> 
> Love the anodizing on your light there Chip!
> 
> Applevision please add me to the list.


Added, *Skeptic*! Whoo hoo!



jch79 said:


> Chip,
> Great job! :twothumbs - and even though I own more keychain lights than I do KEYS, mark me down for one of your ______ lights!
> :thumbsup: john


Added, *jch79*! Whoo hoo!!



fitzDaug said:


> Chip, your anodized prototype looks great. It would be real sweet if it can meet *applevision's *requested features.
> 
> As for possible anodize colors, you can check out this site for possibilities http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/heraldry/heraldry.htm
> 
> ...


*fitzDaug*, +1!! Yes! I am doing a ****oo nerd dance! Whoo hoo!

Just to reiterate my dream features:
-light and teeny-tiny -- CHECK
-waterproof -- ??
-durable in general -- Looks good!
-brightness, price and runtime are more negotiable...



Glenn7 said:


> love the recessed one :thumbsup: - PUT ME DOWN FOR ONE PLEASE (or should i get 2? )  :wave:


Um, *Glenn7*, I think I'm going to have to invoke CPF Rule number 4,219: BUY BOTH! 




wrencher said:


> Hey Chip
> That looks great. I will need one. Did you get my last PM about the clip?
> Thanks
> 
> wrencher





wrencher said:


> Yes I can see you have been hard at it. The total including in the light right. JK. Thanks
> 
> wrencher


*wrencher*, you are added!

So, to sum up, we now have 30+ people on that list and _many_ of us are in for MULTIPLE lights! This could be a worthwhile run!

Chip, your work is spectacular!!

Questions/Comments:
1. What is the finish on the prototype light you showed us at the start? That dark, lustrous gunmetal color set my heart aflame! (not to be a fuddy-duddy--I think the more colorful ones are truly artistic as well and very beautiful... but that gunmetal one just looks "weapons-grade", if you catch my meaning...)

2. Shroud vs. no shroud... I LOVE both of your designs, though I will say that many months of carrying an original FF has been fine without the shroud. I also second *Zendude*'s point that the Light Radius concept is pretty amazing. Seriously, fellas, it's such a cool effect! I guess I'm not sure if the shroud would necessarily ruin the effect... hmmm... Chip, perhaps you could test them for us a bit and use your spider sense on that issue as well. I am a man who loves efficiency and form following function, so if you feel that one is more usable, I am in like Flynn!

3. Batteries/emitter. To have something that lasts long trumps all; though I cannot lie: I have longed for a bit more oomph! Anyway, I leave it to your masterful design and your sense of the "Aha" moment--that point where you feel it's juuuuust right. Same with the 3mm vs. 5mm LED. Use the force--which one feels right to you? Which one gives us "that much more" bang for buck?

4. Twisty vs. FireFli design. A solid twisty design may be the way to go as it might be more reliable than the FF and it has the potential to be truly waterproof--both while on or off. That would be a dream! 

Thank you so much--and thanks CPF!!


p.s. Chip--your knot pattern would be so sweet on this little light!


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## matrixshaman (May 1, 2009)

Zendude said:


> Well, dig out those druthers! Proclaim it to the world!* It shall hence forth be known as* *Undomiel!*(I don't know how to make the apostrophe over the o)
> 
> On second thought...maybe not...most people wouldn't get it.
> 
> ...



Hold down the Alt key then hit 149 on your number pad and ò - woolah ! you got the apostropeed ò  

This thread has really moved a long way since I last looked. Some cool ideas coming up here.


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## scout24 (May 1, 2009)

Shrouded twisty looks fantastic! Glad I am on the list!!!


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## Zeruel (May 1, 2009)

*Re: TiFli version 2*



wvaltakis2 said:


> Fully recessed LED, a 4th cell like the original FF and a hole big enough for a Ti chain (I think). It also has a traditional twist for on setup



 Damn! I'm so freaking sold!
Thanks, Chip! Now what's your Paypal addy? 

Btw, there's already a sign up list in the first post. Could you start your sale thread with that? :naughty:
Has the name been decided yet? Is the light *tightened for off*, which I think it's better if one's going to wear it. You don't want sweat and grime to be in the gap :sick2:


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## herrgurka (May 1, 2009)

Chip,

I'm defininetely in for one of these lights (with the recessed design)! And I'll gladly pay extra for a gold dark blue anodizing 

/paul


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## HKJ (May 1, 2009)

The recessed led in to recessed, something in between would be optimum for me, but between the two you have made, I would prefer the recessed one!

What is the final decision on battery?

I am in for one, but I would like to know more about the color options and price for that.


----------



## F250XLT (May 1, 2009)

So is this light actually going to be "waterproof"?


----------



## wvaltakis2 (May 1, 2009)

I'll try to answer all the questions before I head out to the garage for the day

Questions/Comments:
1. What is the finish on the prototype light you showed us at the start? That dark, lustrous gunmetal color set my heart aflame! (not to be a fuddy-duddy--I think the more colorful ones are truly artistic as well and very beautiful... but that gunmetal one just looks "weapons-grade", if you catch my meaning...)That was really just a trick of the light on a not so polished light, but I may be able to come up with a "distressed" Ti look.

2. Shroud vs. no shroud... I LOVE both of your designs, though I will say that many months of carrying an original FF has been fine without the shroud. I also second *Zendude*'s point that the Light Radius concept is pretty amazing. Seriously, fellas, it's such a cool effect! I guess I'm not sure if the shroud would necessarily ruin the effect... hmmm... Chip, perhaps you could test them for us a bit and use your spider sense on that issue as well. I am a man who loves efficiency and form following function, so if you feel that one is more usable, I am in like Flynn! This one is really up to the end user, and I think it's more of an aesthetics issue than anything else. The bonus to the recessed design is it blocks most of the annoying "5mm ring" that's usually there. But again it's a preference thing, and best of all since I'm making these all myself you can get it either way or in between :twothumbs

3. Batteries/emitter. To have something that lasts long trumps all; though I cannot lie: I have longed for a bit more oomph! Anyway, I leave it to your masterful design and your sense of the "Aha" moment--that point where you feel it's juuuuust right. Same with the 3mm vs. 5mm LED. Use the force--which one feels right to you? Which one gives us "that much more" bang for buck? Batteries- The zinc-air ones are definetely cheaper, I picked up a pack of 16 for ~$15 while the same size silver-oxides were ~$3 each:duh2: With the zinc-airs you get about 15 minutes of slowly declining light before you have to open it up to get some fresh air. Not really an issue the way I use my neck light but you could use the more expensive batteries and run 'em into the ground

LED-I'm pretty sure we'll stick with 5mm's for this one. I've got some of Fred's 5-die LED's coming for to try out in these, and I may have actually found some other locally available ones with a very pleasing beam. I have one of the 7000mcd LEDs in the new recessed light and it's a very pleasant moon beam that's almost a little warm. I'll probably pick up one of the 11,000mcd's to try out later today.

4. Twisty vs. FireFli design. A solid twisty design may be the way to go as it might be more reliable than the FF and it has the potential to be truly waterproof--both while on or off. That would be a dream!I have to agree, the simple "tighten for on" setup in the latest version is waterproof and pretty fool-proof. There will be enough friction from the o-ring to avoid potential loss

Anodizing will probably be $10 for solid colors and $25 for 3-color splash. Crazier stuff would be priced on level of insanity

And as for durability...I'm pretty sure you could run over the recessed design with your car and it would be fine.

I think that covers all the questions so far, keep 'em coming.

~Chip


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## Zeruel (May 1, 2009)

Tighten for ON?! NOOoooOOoooooo....


----------



## wvaltakis2 (May 1, 2009)

wrencher said:


> Yes I can see you have been hard at it. The total including in the light right. JK. Thanks
> 
> wrencher



I was just shipping your clip and noticed (again) that you're only about 30 minutes away. You are more than welcome to come over and check out the light, then you could give your unbiased opinions for the rest of the bunch.

~Chip


----------



## HKJ (May 1, 2009)

wvaltakis2 said:


> But again it's a preference thing, and best of all since I'm making these all myself you can get it either way or in between :twothumbs



With this adaption to customer wish, I can see no other option than getting a light. Where is the list to sign up?



wvaltakis2 said:


> Batteries- The zinc-air ones are definetely cheaper, I picked up a pack of 16 for ~$15 while the same size silver-oxides were ~$3 each:duh2: With the zinc-airs you get about 15 minutes of slowly declining light before you have to open it up to get some fresh air. Not really an issue the way I use my neck light but you could use the more expensive batteries and run 'em into the ground



I think I prefer the silver batteries, I am a bit worried about the lifetime of zinc-air batteries.




wvaltakis2 said:


> LED-I'm pretty sure we'll stick with 5mm's for this one. I've got some of Fred's 5-die LED's coming for to try out in these, and I may have actually found some other locally available ones with a very pleasing beam. I have one of the 7000mcd LEDs in the new recessed light and it's a very pleasant moon beam that's almost a little warm. I'll probably pick up one of the 11,000mcd's to try out later today.



The 5-die led is interesting, but I am not really sure it gives light enough for the power it consumes. I hope you find a led with white light, this kind of premium light needs a white beam.



wvaltakis2 said:


> I have to agree, the simple "tighten for on" setup in the latest version is waterproof and pretty fool-proof. There will be enough friction from the o-ring to avoid potential loss


That would be enough for me, with a o-ring to increase the friction, I do not need a "loose to turn on" light.




wvaltakis2 said:


> Anodizing will probably be $10 for solid colors and $25 for 3-color splash. Crazier stuff would be priced on level of insanity



I can see that my color wish is at least $25, but I would be ok with paying $100 for this light.

I think that you make this a great opportunity to get a small, high quality and very nice looking light.


----------



## wrencher (May 1, 2009)

Hey Chip , I'd love to see the shop. Unfortunately family and work have mr tied up right now. What size battery will the light use? And how many? The reason I ask is the 1/3n 3 volt 160ma lithium cell might fit/work. Just a thought.

wrencher


----------



## Glenn7 (May 2, 2009)

Originally Posted by Glenn7 
love the recessed one - PUT ME DOWN FOR ONE PLEASE (or should i get 2? ) 

Um, Glenn7, I think I'm going to have to invoke CPF Rule number 4,219: BUY BOTH! 

Naughty boy!! :whoopin:
dont tempt me coz i might just get 2 :nana:


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## wvaltakis2 (May 2, 2009)

Some specs for you guys to mull over while I figure out the sales thread "blurbage" and get some more pics

Weight: 7.9 grams
Length: 1.575"
Diameter: 0.352"

I was trying to get current draw figures for the two LED's,but the numbers seemed kinda wacky:thinking: I got ~4ma for the 5-die from PF and ~1.8ma for the no-name special so I'm not sure what's going on here. Maybe, something is up with my meter, or maybe the zinc-air's just don't put out much current (although both are plenty bright enough). I'll pick up some silver-oxides and double check.

As far as sales thread, I still have to get pics of the two "bezel' options, hopefully beamshots of the two LED's and a better anodizing spectrum pic so I can do up something presentable. Since I realize my design may not satisfy everybody's needs from this thread I'm not sure if I want to copy the sign up list, but there will be a list in the sales thread. For those of you that just can't wait for the sales thread, email me at thehomerjaysimpson(@)gmail.com and we can figure out what you want and get started ASAP.

Applevision- As the head instigator in this you should be the first to get one and play with it, email me and I'll get yours whipped right up.

~Chip


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## Mikellen (May 2, 2009)

Applevision, thank you for this very interesting thread. Please place me on your list of interest. 

I'm interested in a gunmetal recessed version. Hopefully it'll be waterproof!
Just to confirm, the metal is Titanium correct?

Thank you.


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## applevision (May 3, 2009)

Mikellen said:


> Applevision, thank you for this very interesting thread. Please place me on your list of interest.
> 
> Thank you.


Done, Mikellen. Welcome to our madness!



wvaltakis2 said:


> Some specs for you guys to mull over while I figure out the sales thread "blurbage" and get some more pics
> 
> Weight: 7.9 grams
> Length: 1.575"
> ...



Holy crap! This is a dream come true!! Thanks so much, Chip! Email sent! (For the rest of the gang, I'm asking for 2 of them:
1. Uncovered "bezel", just like the original FireFli
That incredible gunmetal gray "distressed" Ti weapon look

2. Covered "bezel" to protect the LED
Perhaps a shiny "chromed" look to it like Fred's La Petite Killer seen
here, if possible:
http://www.photonfanatic.com/images/killer/jch79Photo400.jpg)

lovecpf:drunk:


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## applevision (May 3, 2009)

Had to add the chart updated!


```
[FONT=courier new]
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]           LENGTH:    DIAMETER: VOLUME:  [/FONT][FONT=courier new]WEIGHT    PRICE:[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new]LaPetit   23.25mm   14.25mm    3681mm^3   [/FONT][FONT=courier new]11.9g   $ 95.00 [/FONT]
[FONT=courier new]Nano         37mm      13mm    4910mm^3[/FONT]    [FONT=courier new]10.0g   $ 8.00[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new]Fauxton     41mm x 23mm 7mm    6601mm^3*   7.0g*  $  FREE*[/FONT]
[FONT=courier new]Firefli     38mm        7mm    1462mm^3    2.0g   $ 20.00*
[/FONT][U][B][FONT=courier new]CHIP'S      40mm      8.9mm    2488mm^3    7.9g   $ 75.00[/FONT][/B][/U]
[FONT=courier new]Wee (Ti)    34mm       15mm    6007mm^3   [/FONT][FONT=courier new]13.7g   $ 51.00[/FONT][FONT=courier new]
[/FONT][FONT=courier new]Drake       33mm       13mm    4380mm^3   [/FONT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=courier new]13.5g   $145.00[/FONT][/COLOR]
```
Look at how sweet it looks! Like a Tank-Series of the old FireFli! Better, Stronger, Faster! Whoo hooo!! I don't know if Chip has decided on the name, but I know that it will be my Phial: A light when all other lights go out!


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## Zeruel (May 3, 2009)

I shall await the sale thread with anticipation, hoping to see the kinds of finishing available.  
Definitely would like the recessed version. May I know if it'll be in the MP or B/S/T?


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## London Lad (May 3, 2009)

I would like one please!!

Covered led in plain Ti please


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## Zendude (May 3, 2009)

matrixshaman said:


> Hold down the Alt key then hit 149 on your number pad and ò - woolah ! you got the apostropeed ò



Thanks Matrix. I guess yòu need tò knòw that stuff tò pòst in this thread! 

The ònly pròblem I have with the recessed light is that requires yòu tò hòld it(hands òr teeth) like any òther light. I still _really_ like it thòugh.

I'm surprised sòmeòne else hasn't mentiòned this yet but what abòut a còuple slòts òr channels fòr a _TRIT_. "...a light when all òthers fail" Only if the walls are thick enòugh òf còurse. 

Hmmmm... if it had blue trits it còuld be called _Sting_!

:thinking:... òrange or red trit with that flame anò in apples' earlier pic and we còuld call it Smaug or Balròg or Flame Udûn:devil:


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## Zeruel (May 3, 2009)

Nice ring to it, _Sting_.
But Chip has suggested this to be named TiFli.


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## wingnutLP (May 3, 2009)

I am definitely up for one of these puppies! A natural or sand/bead blasted finis would be best for an EDW light like this.

Can you add me to the list of buyers please applevision?

I can't wait...


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## applevision (May 3, 2009)

London Lad said:


> I would like one please!!
> 
> Covered led in plain Ti please


Added to the list, thanks *London Lad*!



wingnutLP said:


> I am definitely up for one of these puppies! A natural or sand/bead blasted finis would be best for an EDW light like this.
> 
> Can you add me to the list of buyers please applevision?
> 
> I can't wait...


Done, *wingnutLP*!


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## applevision (May 3, 2009)

Christoph said:


> I have been wearing this for the last 5 years it always lights up and runs for a long time ZA 4 firefli
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just have to take a moment to send a shot out to *Christoph*--the man who started it all! I've quoted the actual post above where he first mentioned the FireFli! This is it! This is actually all traced back to *Christoph*! Thanks man!!! :twothumbs


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## littlerm (May 4, 2009)

Tremendous count me in for one, hopefully find a matching Ti chain too.

Thanks Mark


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## D.B. (May 4, 2009)

Wow, this project is really coming along! Count me in for one or two (depending on final price, of course!)


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## Zeruel (May 4, 2009)

I thought Chip's going to start a sale thread with a brand new list of interested buyers?


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## wvaltakis2 (May 4, 2009)

*TiFli beamshots*

I'm getting there, had to whip out a couple for the person who started this after all

In the meantime, here's some beamshots to tide you over and help you choose your LED...

Nichia (Killer) on the left, PF 5-die in the middle, no-name on the right











No-name





PF 5-die





Killer





~Chip


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## London Lad (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TiFli beamshots*

Nichia looks best to me....


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## applevision (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TiFli beamshots*



Zendude said:


> Thanks Matrix. I guess yòu need tò knòw that stuff tò pòst in this thread!
> 
> The ònly pròblem I have with the recessed light is that requires yòu tò hòld it(hands òr teeth) like any òther light. I still _really_ like it thòugh.
> 
> ...


Yes! Oh, once I get my relatively plain versions I may have to have a very fancy custom anodized light called _STING_! I love it! What if he could even do something like the Tengwar here:







littlerm said:


> Tremendous count me in for one, hopefully find a matching Ti chain too.


Added, *littlerm*!



D.B. said:


> Wow, this project is really coming along! Count me in for one or two (depending on final price, of course!)


Added, *D.B.*!



Zeruel said:


> I thought Chip's going to start a sale thread with a brand new list of interested buyers?


I'm pretty sure you are right, *Zeruel*, but I just want to keep up our initial list just in case... 
:tinfoil:


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## applevision (May 4, 2009)

*Re: TiFli beamshots*



wvaltakis2 said:


> I'm getting there, had to whip out a couple for the person who started this after all
> 
> In the meantime, here's some beamshots to tide you over and help you choose your LED...
> Nichia (Killer) on the left, PF 5-die in the middle, no-name on the right
> ~Chip



Is it me or is the no-name brighter and whiter than the others?! Wow! The only thing I can say is that from the beamshots at least, the PF-5 is out. Chip, to your experienced eye what are your thoughts on these? Sometimes it's hard to judge by beamshots and just shutting off the lights and walking around a bit will give a better sense of beam characteristic and color, etc. Also are there other factors such as current draw (and thus runtime) and quality/durability (esp with the no-name)? I truly appreciate your guidance here!


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## littlerm (May 4, 2009)

Thanks for the add, are we stuck with button cells for this light or can a li-ion cell be utilised.


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## Zeruel (May 4, 2009)

I like the "no-name" :thumbsup:


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## D.B. (May 5, 2009)

*Re: TiFli beamshots*

I'm thinking the no-name or killer.


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## wvaltakis2 (May 5, 2009)

Hey Applevision, here's a sneak preview of your pair:twothumbs They'll be going out in the morning, you should have them by the end of the week. As for what LED is best, I think I'll be going with the no-name for these. It seems the nicest by my eyes, but I do have some of Fred's 5-die's for those who want 'em.





















Scout24- Your light went out today, but I failed to get pics beforehand.

~Chip


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## Zeruel (May 5, 2009)

Chip, that's cruel.....
What about us?! :mecry:


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## London Lad (May 5, 2009)

What's that they are resting on ?????


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## litetube (May 5, 2009)

Put me in for one Please?

I was originally following this thread and enjoyed it but never thought it had come to an actual living breathing light!!:thumbsup:


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## applevision (May 5, 2009)

litetube said:


> Put me in for one Please?
> 
> I was originally following this thread and enjoyed it but never thought it had come to an actual living breathing light!!:thumbsup:



Added, *litetube*!


And Chip:


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## scout24 (May 5, 2009)

Thanks Chip, P.M. incoming... Those look sweet!!!!


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## Wade (May 5, 2009)

Sgt. LED said:


> :tinfoil:
> I'm planning on having a P7 and a LI-poly batt surgically implanted just under the skin.
> I will PM you the name and number of my doctor.


 
IRONMAN had that done but the doc in no longer with us.  :mecry:


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## wvaltakis2 (May 5, 2009)

Zeruel said:


> Chip, that's cruel.....
> What about us?! :mecry:



Sorry for the continued delay on the official sales thread. I've been so busy in the garage I haven't gotten around to making one yet. Again, anyone who doesn't want to wait can email me (thehomerjaysimpson @ gmail.com) and we'll get started on their light.



London Lad said:


> What's that they are resting on ?????



Oh that's nothing...just something I've been working on It's not like anyone would be interested in a Ti and Mokume pen with a TiFli built in the end, would they:thinking:? Especially not you LondonLad...



applevision said:


> Added, *litetube*!
> 
> 
> And Chip:


No problem, thanks to you for getting this started.

~Chip


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## London Lad (May 5, 2009)

wvaltakis2 said:


> snip..........
> Oh that's nothing...just something I've been working on It's not like anyone would be interested in a Ti and Mokume pen with a TiFli built in the end, would they:thinking:? Especially not you LondonLad...
> 
> 
> snip..



We... err... I need pictures :naughty:


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## HKJ (May 5, 2009)

wvaltakis2 said:


> Sorry for the continued delay on the official sales thread. I've been so busy in the garage I haven't gotten around to making one yet. Again, anyone who doesn't want to wait can email me (thehomerjaysimpson @ gmail.com) and we'll get started on their light.



I have mailed you two days ago, but have received any answer back yet.


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## gollum (May 5, 2009)

"whats that?"

oh NOTHING....


c'mon pics etc


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## Zeruel (May 5, 2009)

Thanks Chip.
Now to find a TiChain


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## applevision (May 5, 2009)

Zeruel said:


> Now to find a TiChain



*Zeruel*, let me know which chain you pick, okay? I might have to "upgrade" as well....


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## Zeruel (May 5, 2009)

Probably the 3mm Titanium ball chain necklace. It's lighter weight than the SS version for dogtags.


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## littlerm (May 5, 2009)

i have just got Venetian-n Titanium Box Chain Necklace (24) from justmetal.

Tad expensive though but best looking, its dark stonewashed effect.


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## kaichu dento (May 5, 2009)

littlerm said:


> i have just got Venetian-n Titanium Box Chain Necklace (24) from justmetal.
> 
> Tad expensive though but best looking, its dark stonewashed effect.


Got any pictures!?! I'd love to see what some stonewashed Ti chains look like!


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## littlerm (May 5, 2009)

not researched into posting pics yet, i need a flickr account dont i.

go to www.justmetal.com they have 10% off


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## Zeruel (May 5, 2009)

:eeksign: It's more than twice the price of the light itself.
I'll go for my original plan of Ti ball chain.
Thanks for the link.


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## littlerm (May 6, 2009)

Yep i know i couldnt resist after hours of rumaging around, cant handle shiny necklaces.


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## zachurr (May 6, 2009)

Been lurking around these forums for quite a while, however i just found this thread and had to join.

That's one rad light. I'm in love.


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## scout24 (May 6, 2009)

Zeruel-
Do you have a link or a source for the Ti dogtag chain?


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## Zeruel (May 6, 2009)

scout24 said:


> Zeruel-
> Do you have a link or a source for the Ti dogtag chain?



Couple of sites selling them. Do a google and you'll find 1, 2 and 3.


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## scout24 (May 6, 2009)

Thank you. Site # 2 seems like my plan. 3mm instead of 2.3mm... Good deal.


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## coyote (May 6, 2009)

_*"...Fully recessed LED... and a hole big enough for a Ti chain..."*_

OMG!!! i haven't checked this thread since the suggestion of a recessed version a week ago (post #287). 

and now a new "improved" lug hole. its perfect too. wow.

i'm stunned - it's exactly what i envisioned and hoped for.

sign me up for a Ti-Fli please!


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## applevision (May 6, 2009)

Done, coyote!:thumbsup:


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## SomeoneSomewhere (May 6, 2009)

I'd love to be on the list- I've been looking at an Orb Wee, but I think this might be a little nicer.


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## applevision (May 6, 2009)

SomeoneSomewhere said:


> I'd love to be on the list- I've been looking at an Orb Wee, but I think this might be a little nicer.



Hey SomeoneSomewhere, you are added! I think that in the tradition of CPF... you ought to BUY BOTH! 

Seriously, the Wee is a gorgeous light, made to the highest standards but is bigger and more powerful than this little bugger. I think that the Wee is one of the finest keychain lights known... and your TiFli will be your neckchain light! :thumbsup:


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## littlerm (May 6, 2009)

The Light is nicer but the Orb Wee is also nice and prabably 10 times the brightness, get both.


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## kaichu dento (May 6, 2009)

littlerm said:


> not researched into posting pics yet, i need a flickr account dont i.
> 
> go to www.justmetal.com they have 10% off


Really like the look of both of these!

http://www.justmetal.com/Venetian-n-Titanium-Box-Chain-Necklace-P169.aspx#

http://www.justmetal.com/Wheat-n-Titanium-Necklace-P171.aspx


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## JDest (May 6, 2009)

Apple, I respectfully request to be added to the ever growing list. Have been following this thread since its inception, and can hold back no longer. I must have one.


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## littlerm (May 7, 2009)

Thought this would induce a few thoughts.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb//showthread.php?p=2875955:sssh:

I called them today from Oz and they wont be in stock; the chains that is until may 15th.

They also confirmed that it is commercial grade titanium manufactured in Germany with their own custom connector clips, Tremendous


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## littlerm (May 7, 2009)

HI Chip would the 4mm diameter chain fit through your light and maybe this has already been covered but the light is titanium isnt it, if so what grade?

I would also prefer a name LED becuase the no name could last 5 minutes or am i wrong.:devil:

Thanks Mark


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## DM51 (May 7, 2009)

I have not been following this thread, so I'm not quite sure at what stage it morphed from an interest thread into a sales thread. It was probably around post #268.

As a sales thread, it cannot stay here in LED Flashlights. It is also now approaching 400 posts, when it would be due to be closed anyway, for continuation in a Part 2.

The best solution is to close it now. 

applevision, if you want to open a Part 2 to continue the general discussion, please feel free to do so; but there must be no sales made there.

wvtalkis2, I suggest you open a proper sales thread in C&M B/S/T. When you have done that, please let me know and if you like I'll put a link here in a new post in this thread so members can find it. The new post will bump the thread back up to the top even after it has been closed, so people will see it.


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## DM51 (May 12, 2009)

As promised, here is a link to the sales thread: TiFli sales and sign up thread


----------

