# Improving heat sinking on P60 style drop ins.



## Norm (May 5, 2009)

I received an MC-E module from DX and wanted to get the best thermal contact possible with the body of the light.

I was thinking there must be a better solution than aluminium foil, I'd just finished a can of "pop", "soda" or where I come from "soft drink" so I cut the can into strips just wide enough to drop into my light 20mm and 750mm long, I then polished off the print with steel wool and rolled it up tight enough to push into the top of the torch where the P60 style drop in sits. By trimming the strip I was able to get a perfect fit for the drop in.

I also found that by using a finger to rub the strip against the wall of the light in the opposite direction to the way it was rolled up, I was able to really smooth and tighten the strip.

The strip remains in place when I remove the drop in and is a lot more permanent solution than foil. I guess for extra effectiveness you could apply some heat sinking compound to the strip before rolling it up.











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## supasizefries (May 5, 2009)

This seems like a good idea. Have you noticed the body of the light getting warmer quicker now that you've installed the extra layer of tin in the light?


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## DHart (May 5, 2009)

Nice suggestion, Norm. Since aluminum foil conforms so nicely, one might find a combination of foil & pop-can even more useful in wicking away heat. I have a Dereelight MC-E lamp assembly in-bound from Hong Kong... I will definitely consider these options when fitting to my L2 host.


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## kramer5150 (May 5, 2009)

very nice... FWIW... I use the heavy gage Al foil. The stuff left over from the summer BBQ season. Fold it over once and cut it into a slender ~5/8" strip. I wrap the module in this so its snug. Its not as permanent as your coke can, but its definitely more durable than the thinner gage foil, while being just as flexible.

I was thinking about getting some AA and filling in the ridges around the reflector... just pack the stuff in, and file it back down so its a clean cylinder.

I wish they left the reflectors plain walled, with no ribs cut into the sides like DX:16694.


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## Sgt. LED (May 5, 2009)

Looks good to me! Slather some arctic silver 5 on it and you're good to go.


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## seaside (May 5, 2009)

Thanks for giving me the idea.
But isn't that pop-can edge sharp enough to make a cut or two at your finger? Did you sand the edge litttle bit or what?


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## Norm (May 5, 2009)

supasizefries said:


> This seems like a good idea. Have you noticed the body of the light getting warmer quicker now that you've installed the extra layer of tin in the light?


Yes it does, my drop in is a nice snug fit now.



seaside said:


> Thanks for giving me the idea.
> But isn't that pop-can edge sharp enough to make a cut or two at your finger? Did you sand the edge litttle bit or what?


The edges were left nice and smooth by the steel wool.
Norm


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## Zatoichi (May 5, 2009)

That's a good idea. I've used pop cans to make washers for my katana tsubas. At the moment I'm using copper tape on my dropins, but I'm still wondering if the adhesive has any detrimental effect.


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## old4570 (May 5, 2009)

Nice Idea 

Me , I used Al-foil + a bit of glue , to hold the foil in place and when the glue dries , its sort of part of the pill . 

If I had a lathe I would just turn up a copper sleeve or just make a new custom fit reflector . 

I have my MC-E in a Mini Solarforce L2 , and the Al-foil works a treat . Im just wondering how much of a gap is left where the wrap starts and ends , and how tight a fit you went for .


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## Norm (May 6, 2009)

The fit is not tight but is snug, some slight resistance when the module is inserted or removed. You can make the fit tighter by using a slightly longer strip, best to start off long and trim until your happy with the fit.
Norm


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## bigchelis (May 6, 2009)

3M cooper tape works so much better than foil. I ordered my buddy a MC-E from DX. In a 6P it took around 5 minutes before it got pretty warm. After the cooper tape it gets warm within a minute. I think this is a good indication that the cooper tape is helping with heat. I did wrap it tight and applied force to fit it in the 6P.

3M Electrical Tape #1181 HD 9046-04= This is cooper tape I used. It is very thick cooper with adhesive on the other side. I got it from him as a gift, but I have no idea where to purchase.

Jose


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## old4570 (May 6, 2009)

If its heatsinking correctly it should transfer heat away from the pill as quickly as possible , not hold it at the pill , thats bad .

My little MC-E starts getting warm almost straight away , and after 3 minutes its hot , 5 minutes and the entire flashlight is hot ...


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## Norm (May 6, 2009)

bigchelis said:


> I ordered my buddy a MC-E from DX. In a 6P it took around 5 minutes before it got pretty warm.  After the cooper tape it gets warm within a minute.





old4570 said:


> If its heatsinking correctly it should transfer heat away from the pill as quickly as possible , not hold it at the pill , thats bad .
> 
> My little MC-E starts getting warm almost straight away , and after 3 minutes its hot , 5 minutes and the entire flashlight is hot ...


I also have copper tape, available from any lead light glass supply.
Norm


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## bigchelis (May 6, 2009)

Norm said:


> I also have copper tape, available from any lead light glass supply.
> Norm


 

Norm,
Do you notice which gets warmer within a minute the cooper tape vs. the soda can aluminum?

Thanks,
Jose


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## Norm (May 6, 2009)

Haven't tried the tape Jose, I just thought the coke can was a neater solution. I was unsure about how heat conductive the adhesive on the tape is, I know it will stand up to heat it is designed to be soldered but whether it conducts heat well I have no idea.
Norm


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## old4570 (May 6, 2009)

Norm said:


> Haven't tried the tape Jose, I just thought the coke can was a neater solution. I was unsure about how heat conductive the adhesive on the tape is, I know it will stand up to heat it is designed to be soldered but whether it conducts heat well I have no idea.
> Norm


It may insulate more than it heatsinks .. If its designed to withstand heat .


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## bigchelis (May 6, 2009)

old4570 said:


> It may insulate more than it heatsinks .. If its designed to withstand heat .


 

I agree, but the MC-E drop-in now gets warm much much sooner. I am no expert on cooper or aluminum so I really have no idea why the bezel now gets warm sooner.

Any ideas on why the cooper tape is making the bezel warm at around 1 minute on high?

Thanks,
Jose


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## kramer5150 (May 6, 2009)

bigchelis said:


> 3M cooper tape works so much better than foil. I ordered my buddy a MC-E from DX. In a 6P it took around 5 minutes before it got pretty warm. After the cooper tape it gets warm within a minute. I think this is a good indication that the cooper tape is helping with heat. I did wrap it tight and applied force to fit it in the 6P.
> 
> 3M Electrical Tape #1181 HD 9046-04= This is cooper tape I used. It is very thick cooper with adhesive on the other side. I got it from him as a gift, but I have no idea where to purchase.
> 
> Jose



http://www.tedpella.com/TechNote_html/16072 TN.pdf

Copper tapes like this are typically used as an EMI shield, to create a cohesive Faraday cage around EMI/FRI sources. I have also seen it used as an ESD ground, so the adhesive used is most definitely electrically conductive.

I have not seen it used as a thermal conductor, although it stands to reason that the Copper should conduct heat readily. The big question mark is the thermal conductive properties of the acrylic adhesive.

3M has this product thats designed to be a thermal conductive tape. It also uses Acrylic adhesive in a peel&stick format.
http://www9.3m.com/intl/kr/img/single/pdf/431.pdf


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## Norm (May 6, 2009)

bigchelis said:


> .Any ideas on why the cooper tape is making the bezel warm at around 1 minute on high?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jose


That's a good thing Jose it means that the heat is being drawn away from the drop in and dissipated by the body of the light.
Norm


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## old4570 (May 6, 2009)

bigchelis said:


> I agree, but the MC-E drop-in now gets warm much much sooner. I am no expert on cooper or aluminum so I really have no idea why the bezel now gets warm sooner.
> 
> Any ideas on why the cooper tape is making the bezel warm at around 1 minute on high?
> 
> ...



No thats good , it means heatsinking is going on IE/ Heat is being transfered from the pill to the body , thats a good thing .

You dont want to cook the LED or driver , this would happen if you had poor heatsinking , if the flashlight body gets to say 50deg C in 5 minutes , that could mean the LED is hot enough to cook with , and you really want to get rid of that heat before it gets terminal .


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## OneBigDay (Dec 13, 2009)

This is a really good tip. Thanks Norm for posting.

I have a new Nailbender SST-50 dropin in a Solarforce L2m Stainless Steel host and have been a little concerned about how this will dissipate heat. I just tried the pop can wrap and now the head does get warmer noticeably faster (a good thing). I still may need an aluminum host in the long run but I wanted to give this one a go first. I had read some tips in other posts about copper tape but was hesitant because of the adhesive. The pop can wrap seems like a clean version of the same idea.



old4570 said:


> My little MC-E starts getting warm almost straight away , and after 3 minutes its hot , 5 minutes and the entire flashlight is hot ...



You guys are brave putting MC-E dropins in a P60 host. I am new to this whole game but from what I've been reading here, this little guy gets HOT and it seems that's why we aren't seeing more small stock lights using this LED - too much heat. Having said that - I am very tempted to try a dropin like this myself :thinking:


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## kimck99 (Jan 2, 2010)

Hi Norm,

Just wanted to drop a note that that your suggestion works great. I have two P60 hosts (Surefire C2 and Solarforce L2P) and I took a Pepsi can and cut it into two strips about 0.5 to 0.7 inches wide.

It took a few cuts to get is to the right length to have the drop-in fit nice and snug. With the SST-50 and MCE drop-ins, respectively, the bodies get warmer much faster - especially the C2.

Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:


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## Norm (Jan 2, 2010)

kimck99 said:


> With the SST-50 and MCE drop-ins, respectively, the bodies get warmer much faster - especially the C2.
> 
> Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:


Your welcome.
Seems so much easier than playing around with foil, all my lights with drop ins use this method.
Cheers Norm


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## Fusion_m8 (Jan 2, 2010)

Thanks for the tip Norm. No soft drink cans though.... only VB, so I gotta make do!:thumbsup:


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## MCFLYFYTER (Jan 4, 2010)

I used aluminum tape for my M60/6P. The tape I used is for holding ceramic backing in a weld joint. The aluminum realy got the head warm quick. I believe there was a 0.009" diffence between the module and head, and a soda can was too thick.


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## Fichtenelch (Jan 4, 2010)

I use high-speed tape, since i work in aviation  Much thicker than just normal al foil and comes with adhesive.


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## kosPap (Jan 4, 2010)

personally I use alum food tray material...

and got a question:
does this worths it?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5092
got some and it seems more tape than copper...


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## Norm (Jan 4, 2010)

kosPap said:


> personally I use alum food tray material...
> 
> and got a question:
> does this worths it?
> ...


This is a clone Kapton tape not copper tape.
Norm


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## Sgt. LED (Jan 4, 2010)

Yeah, don't.


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## Superorb (Apr 20, 2010)

Has anyone contacted 3M to determine the conductive properties (if any) of the adhesive on the copper tape?


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## Patriot (Apr 20, 2010)

Great idea Norm and it's opened up thought on advanced versions of the concept. I'd interested in seeing a graph of the difference with and without the "tape" as related to time and temperature. A stop watch and infrared thermometer would be the quick and dirty way.


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## recDNA (Apr 20, 2010)

I use copper tape from AC Moore. No adhesive. I also put a little piece of copper wire wrapped around where the pill connects to the reflector. Arctic silver is great stuff but too messy for me.


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## waddup (Apr 20, 2010)

i wonder is the dropin could be wrapped in plastic and pushed into a jb weld or high temp epoxy blob inside the host? might be tricky and messy, but after its hardens and is cleaned up (dremel) would be a good fit with excellent heat transfer.


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## dhouseng (May 20, 2010)

i tried the pepsi can strip method but i think it is still very hot on the dropin, i turn the L2p with R5 on for about a minute, i then quickly remove the dropin and touch the pepsi can strip and the wall around the head, the pill feels very hot, but the strip feels just very tiny bit of warm. what is wrong?


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## Noctis (May 21, 2010)

dhouseng said:


> i tried the pepsi can strip method but i think it is still very hot on the dropin, i turn the L2p with R5 on for about a minute, i then quickly remove the dropin and touch the pepsi can strip and the wall around the head, the pill feels very hot, but the strip feels just very tiny bit of warm. what is wrong?


Could be bad thermal contact still. Do you have to really shove the module inside the light when you put it in?

The copper tape + Arctic Silver 5 combination is pricey at $20 and very messy, but it's exceptionally effective IMO. Though I really only go that far for the really hot emitters(SST-50/90, MCE, P7). In my Surefire 6P with an SST-90 direct drive, the heat transfer is good enough that I can feel the heat inside of 10 seconds, and the light always gets too hot to hold before the emitter shifts to a blue tint.


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## Norm (May 21, 2010)

dhouseng said:


> i tried the pepsi can strip method but i think it is still very hot on the dropin, i turn the L2p with R5 on for about a minute, i then quickly remove the dropin and touch the pepsi can strip and the wall around the head, the pill feels very hot, but the strip feels just very tiny bit of warm. what is wrong?


Thin thin aluminium strip will cool almost instantly when taken out of the light, it doesn't have enough thermal mass on its own to stay hot.
It's job is to fill the space and conduct the heat to the body of the light.
Norm


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## sims2k (May 21, 2010)

I am going to try the thick aluminum foil first before cutting up a pop can for my SF C2 and Solarforce L2 lights. Thanks guys for the ideas.


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## Tally-ho (May 21, 2010)

dhouseng said:


> i tried the pepsi can strip method but i think it is still very hot on the dropin, i turn the L2p with R5 on for about a minute, i then quickly remove the dropin and touch the pepsi can strip and the wall around the head, the pill feels very hot, but the strip feels just very tiny bit of warm. what is wrong?



Does the drop-in fit very tightly into the host ?
Did you remove the varnish that is on the internal side of the can ?


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## dhouseng (May 21, 2010)

Tally-ho said:


> Does the drop-in fit very tightly into the host ?
> Did you remove the varnish that is on the internal side of the can ?



yeap the drop in fit very tightly and i sanded away the printings on both side of the strip.

but theres another problem, the strip seems to scrape off a tiny bit of the aluminium wall of the L2P everytime i put the dropin in and taking it out.

how did you guys manage to make the strip stay in place? my dropin fits too tightly that everytime i remove the dropin there's a 'pop' sound, and the strip follows the dropin.


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## Tally-ho (Jun 17, 2010)

dhouseng said:


> the pill feels very hot, but the strip feels just very tiny bit of warm. what is wrong?


It tried the soda can mod (very tight fit) and I also didn't notice a great difference. Then I remembered that in France and probably europe, soda cans are made of steel that have a low thermal conductivity.
The result was under my expectation but it was fun to do.


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## jimbo231 (Jun 20, 2010)

Do I need to remove spring on drop in to wrap with tinfoil and use in solarforce l2p or l2m or do I use with the spring on?


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## purelite (Jun 20, 2010)

I think most leave the spring off but I dont know if you absolutely have to in every case depending on your host and dropin. I never use the spring


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## tolkaze (Jun 20, 2010)

Has anybody injected something like an AB foam between the dropin and the host? I know that it is insulating, but I am thinking that if you let it set, take out the dropin, take out the foam plug, you should have a mould of the space between dropin and host... if it is minimal, use tape, if it is significant, maybe make a metal instert exact shape from the blank??


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## kosPap (Jun 22, 2010)

well sometime somewhere in thios forum someone suggested a special heat transfering foam..that would be the best option


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## ^Gurthang (Jun 22, 2010)

Inserting table didn't work.....


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## jimbo231 (Sep 25, 2010)

I used a strip of pop can but kept the label on the one side. Is that ok? The heat should still transfer...no?


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## Minjin (Sep 25, 2010)

jimbo231 said:


> I used a strip of pop can but kept the label on the one side. Is that ok? The heat should still transfer...no?


It depends on the brand of pop. If it is Coke, especially Coke Zero, you might have some problems. However, if it is Pepsi, you'll be good to go.

Also, from what I understand, if you use a beer can instead of a pop can, it seems to work better.


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## Tuikku (Sep 25, 2010)

Good tip!

I used this method after hunting copper adhesive driving around town for 2 hours... :tired:

I had to use several layers of it.
In the end, drop-in was so tight fitted, that the outer spring could no way push it out there.
I tested the light and seems like the body of my L2 is getting warm but not HOT. I used R5 dropin and 2x 16340.


BTW: should I remove the labeling tape around drop-in before assembling?
Left it there


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## kosPap (Sep 25, 2010)

obviously...they are more insulative than anything else...

You will be gaining little in the overall issue of fixing problematic heatsinking, but one could argue that every little bit helps....


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## Bladedude (Sep 25, 2010)

Flashlight using Nos Aluminum Can works great!


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## jimbo231 (Sep 25, 2010)

Minjin said:


> It depends on the brand of pop. If it is Coke, especially Coke Zero, you might have some problems. However, if it is Pepsi, you'll be good to go.
> 
> Also, from what I understand, if you use a beer can instead of a pop can, it seems to work better.


 It was coke zero.......what are the odds. Oh well I'll try again with a different can. :sick2:


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## Bolek (May 24, 2011)

7 minutes to find this thread then 3 min to cut polish and install it in the light. Very good idea. Thanks Norm


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## RI Chevy (Aug 18, 2011)

What is the trick to heat sinking? Is it taking up the airspace around the drop-in? Am I better off going with copper tape to wrap around a drop-in?


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## Norm (Aug 18, 2011)

Hi Jeff, make the aluminium a firm fit, the spring on the drop in shouldn't be able to push the drop in out ( start off a bit long and you can trim slowly to get a good fit, if you go too short you can easily push a short piece of the can down beside the rest. There were some great thermal images that showed it actually works well (unfortunately lost to the crash). When you've had the aluminium in there it usually holds it self in place even when you take out the drop in although you may have to adjust it for a different drop in the materials are cheap.

I've never tried copper tape, I don't think the adhesive on the tape would help the thermal properties.

Norm


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## RI Chevy (Aug 18, 2011)

I came across this. 

*JVCC CFL-5CA Copper Foil Tape (Conductive Adhesive) specifications:**Adhesive:* conductive acrylic How are adhesives different?

*Carrier/Backing:* copper foil
*Release Liner:* 60# paper
*Thickness:* 3.5 mils (without liner) 2.1 mils (adhesive) 1.4 mils (carrier/backing) What is a mil?
*Adhesion:* 70 ounces per inch (to stainless steel)
*Tensile Strength:* 36 pounds per inch (longitudinal)
*Service/Operating Temperature:* up to 311°F
*Elongation:* 6%
*Electrical Resistance:* 0.003 Ohms/sq. in.
*Certifications:* File #130121, UL510, Section 4, MIL-T-47012
*Core:* 3" diameter neutral

* specifications are those given by manufacturers and are not tested for accuracy

*Silicone based adhesive:*

*silicone* Is great for extreme temperature applications since silicone adhesive can work in continuous operating temperatures from -100°F to 500°F. 
They also exhibit good chemical resistance, retain electrical properties, and remove cleanly with little or no residue.


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## Norm (Aug 18, 2011)

I've searched and I can't find the post but someone in the last week post about using flat copper from speaker cross over inductors they don't have the adhesive which is the thing I think may effect heat transfer.

Wish we had those thermal images back

Norm


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## Bullzeyebill (Aug 19, 2011)

RV Chevy, a mil is US is 1/1000 of an inch.

Bill


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## seahunt (Aug 19, 2011)

RI Chevy,
Where available?
Thanks,
Chuck


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## Norm (Aug 19, 2011)

Google Search JVCC CFL-5CA Copper Foil Tape 
Norm


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## RI Chevy (Aug 21, 2011)

What Norm said. :thumbsup:

Can anyone shed light on what any of the technical stuff means?

*JVCC CFL-5CA Copper Foil Tape (Conductive Adhesive) specifications:**Adhesive:* conductive acrylic How are adhesives different?

*Carrier/Backing:* copper foil
*Release Liner:* 60# paper
*Thickness:* 3.5 mils (without liner) 2.1 mils (adhesive) 1.4 mils (carrier/backing) What is a mil?
*Adhesion:* 70 ounces per inch (to stainless steel)
*Tensile Strength:* 36 pounds per inch (longitudinal)
*Service/Operating Temperature:* up to 311°F
*Elongation:* 6%
*Electrical Resistance:* 0.003 Ohms/sq. in.
*Certifications:* File #130121, UL510, Section 4, MIL-T-47012
*Core:* 3" diameter neutral


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## superjett (Nov 17, 2011)

My account (and posts) was a casualty of the forum problems earlier this year, so I'll try to add some of my stuff back to this thread.

I have 3 MC-E Dealextreme torches with P60 dropins. I wrapped them in heavy foil from a baking pan and did some thermal imaging during/after to see if it really made a difference.

Yes is my answer.

This is with all 3 wrapped.






I'll try to post more later.


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## Norm (Nov 17, 2011)

Superjett great to have you back, your images really gave this thread some substance :thumbsup:
Norm


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## superjett (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks Norm. I hate to see any forum have problems since I run a pretty large one myself and have been hacked before and know how much it sucks for everyone.

Here's a shot with just the one on the right wrapped. To me it appears it's transmitting the heat to the outer housing much more efficiently and evenly than the non-wrapped ones. 





This is 20-25 minutes in with all 3 wrapped and they are heating pretty evenly.





This is when I decided to shut them off after over 35 minutes of them sitting on the floor of my office with no airflow to speak of. The left one ended up much hotter even though they pull the same current within .1amps of each other and to my eye are very close on light output. 





I use them for mountain biking so there is almost always airflow and I haven't had a problem since wrapping them 11 months ago, though I haven't done much night riding this year.


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## flashlight chronic (Nov 17, 2011)

I've tried the soda can strip method but found that the aluminum tape works better. My Surefire and Solarforce hosts warm up quicker w/ the tape. It also seems to conform better to the module and I tend to make mine pretty snug (less air gap).


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## superjett (Nov 17, 2011)

Tighter is better that's for sure. Mine are at the point where I have to twist/push/twist/etc to get them in pretty hard. I never did add any thermal paste though, just a very thin film would probably help even more but since I haven't had any problems, it's probably not needed for mine.


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## hank (Nov 17, 2011)

3M™ EMI Shielding Tapes ... 3M offers an Engineering Kit ...
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...nics/Home/Products/EMIEMC/ShieldingFoilTapes/


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## RI Chevy (Nov 18, 2011)

Excellent posts. Thank you for Re-updating this with the missing posts! And images.


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## jonnyfgroove (Nov 18, 2011)

The copper tape offered over on the marketplace is very effective on my P60 drop ins. Better than aluminum strips or aluminum tape, in my experience.

Thanks superjett for the FLIR images, awesome stuff.


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## brianbucar (Jan 28, 2012)

if you are using aluminum can bits in your lights, there is a plastic liner on the inside of the can. 

i took my can, cut off either end and a slice down the middle lengthwise to make a sheet of aluminum. then i get out the acetone and a paper towel/rag and start wiping the plastic liner away on the inside of the can. youll know when you got it all off cause the can will look different and youll get black stuff on your rag/towel. 

i wiped the outside of the can off too but it doesnt seem to touch the ink so its probably fine to leave. i may take one and stainless steel brush the outside of the can but i dont think it will matter much. 

a little thermal heatsink goop lightly smeared into the aluminum should help but dont go crazy. very thin layer. 

i dont have the goop installed in mine but i have around 4 layers of the aluminum can in my wf-501a with a xpg r5 drop in at 1.3-1.4a and it heats up the outside of the light in seconds. 

i also cleaned up the burrs on the edge of the aluminum from cutting it but i used a utility knife. 

i also laid the can material on some wood and laid a metal ruler on top of the metal and used the utility knife to cut it. makes a perfect straight cut. 

im going to do this to all my p60 lights as some of them still have aluminum foil for the heat transfer stuff. 

brian


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## Norm (Jan 28, 2012)

:welcome: Brian

You'll notice in the first post I cleaned both sides of the aluminum with steel wool, leaving just bare aluminum as seen in the photos. 

Norm


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## texas cop (Jan 28, 2012)

I tried the soda can solution then the wrapped aluminum foil. Can method nice but takes a bit of final trimming. Foil can get that tight perfect fit but slides a bit as I seat the pill. Yesterday I tried the adhesive aluminum tape. Got to say I much perfer the tape method it stays exactly where I put it.


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## brianbucar (Jan 28, 2012)

Norm said:


> :welcome: Brian
> 
> You'll notice in the first post I cleaned both sides of the aluminum with steel wool, leaving just bare aluminum as seen in the photos.
> 
> Norm



thanks. ive been lurking for about a month or so. made an intro post the other day and got sucked in already lol. 

yeah i saw your pics.  years ago in college i experimented with that aluminum brazing rod stuff and they recommended using stainless steel brushes to get the aluminum oxide off of the metal and acetone to get off other impurities. im just applying that stuff here to flashlights. . 





texas cop said:


> I tried the soda can solution then the wrapped aluminum foil. Can method nice but takes a bit of final trimming. Foil can get that tight perfect fit but slides a bit as I seat the pill. Yesterday I tried the adhesive aluminum tape. Got to say I much perfer the tape method it stays exactly where I put it.



i like the aluminum can method because there are less layers. every layer adds a little bit of inefficiency. 

i took my digital caliper and measured around a .0365" difference between the inside diameter of my flashlights and the p60 drop in. i got a piece of .040 aluminum and sanded it to ~.036" and then wrapped the drop-in and tried to insert it. wouldnt fit. i assume it was because there were bumps and such in the aluminum from bending it around the module, sanding and working with the piece and to get a good fit, id have to press the parts together with a bit of heatsink paste on the spacer, the module and the light itself. 

since i like to swap parts between all my lights, i wasnt willing to press fit my stuff together for the ultimate in heat conduction. 

i find that the aluminum can method is the next best thing. i have to give it a pretty good twist/push to get the module into the light.  

i do have to trim the aluminum so that the beginning of the can metal and the end of the can metal dont overlap so that that the in-between-layers have room to flex as each layer transitions to the next layer so that the maximum amount of aluminum sheeting is contacting the next layer. 

either way, anything is better than not adding metal to try to pull the heat from the module to the body. 

Brian


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## Hondo (Feb 23, 2012)

brianbucar said:


> i took my digital caliper and measured around a .0365" difference between the inside diameter of my flashlights and the p60 drop in. i got a piece of .040 aluminum and sanded it to ~.036" and then wrapped the drop-in and tried to insert it. wouldnt fit.



Actually, that was because you did not account for the aluminum on both sides of the module. You measured the difference in diameter, so your sheet needs to be half that in thickness, or about 0.018".

Seems to me the aluminum food serving trays might be the best compromise, as they would not have a coating to remove, but require much less layers than aluminum foil.


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## Kestrel (Feb 23, 2012)

FWIW, I have done some limited trial-and-error with my dropins and the various metallic tapes available here on CPF.

With regards to fitment in SureFire hosts, my experiences are as follows:

Moddoo dropins - too small a gap for any tape I've tried
Malkoff dropins - too small a gap for the commonly-available copper tape, just right for a single layer of the thinner aluminum tape from Vinhguyen54
Vinhguyen54 dropins - two layers of the aluminum tape that he supplies makes for a perfect fit
I have not yet pursued this with shim stock etc, as the adhesive metallic tapes seem to work well enough for me. :shrug:


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## TadpolePilot (Feb 25, 2012)

The beer can thing!
I did everything just so perfect.
I installed 2 - 4 1/4" X 5/8" stripes into two led flashlights.
Number one is a SolarForce L-2-P Special Edition HA-III.
This was a pressure fit I lubed used my work gloves to push it in and tighten.
Number two is a Insight Tech Gear model H X- 150-r rechargeable 1 x 18650 cell.
They both had four layers of heavy-duty kitchen alumumin 
foil I installed four weeks ago.
Results in number one I could feel the bezel get warm with the tin-foil and no feeling of unit getting warm?
Number two same as number one.
I now will go to bed and cry! LOL He he ha ha 
What to do?


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## yifu (Feb 26, 2012)

Al foil and copper tape is fine and all but what about actual heat sinking heads like the Cryos bezel or the FiveMega Beefy heat sink? They are much heavier than the standard Z44 bezel and have a lot more surface area for heat transfer.


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## tam17 (Mar 10, 2012)

Just did what Norm recommended in the beginning of this thread. The only difference is that I've used carefully flattened and cleaned _copper_ strips. There was a really huge gap between my Solarforce L2 and its stock XR-E drop-in, so three layers were needed for a snug fit.

Improvement is obvious: the whole head heats up fairly quickly, instead of the top portion (where tapered surfaces make firm contact even without the wrap), and the whole flashlight soon starts to act like a massive heatsink... Thanks to OP and others!

Cheers,

Tam


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## Redhans (Sep 17, 2012)

*Experiment: Aluminum Can Heat Sink vs Copper Tape Heat Sink*

Thank you Norm and everyone who has contributed here.

I have a surface temperature laser, brushed aluminum can strips, and a little bit of copper tape. I measured heat over time using both materials as a heat sink. In theory, the one with the higher surface temperature is the heat sink that is most effective at transferring heat away from the LED and to the surface of the flashlight.
The setup was controlled: room temp, battery voltage to nearest hundredth, position of laser, I measured temperature at a distance of 4 inches, and aimed the laser at the base of the flashlight head. I used a Solarforce L2M, a Nichia 219 dropin on maximum output, and new power cells with voltages verified by multimeter. Time was accurately kept by use of an interval timer set to go off every minute.

I seem to be unable to upload pictures. I only see an option to link to a picture URL and I'm not going to bother with that at this time. I will just insert a table of my results instead.



TimeTemp (F) Al sinkTemp (F) Cu sink08281186.584.529088.539391.54969459896.5699.598.57101.5100.581031029104.510310105.5104.511106.510612108107.51310910814110108.515110.5109.516111110.517112111.51811311219113.5112.520114112.521114.5113.522114.511423115114.524115.5114.525115.511526116115.527116.511628116.511629117116.530117116.531117116.632117.511733117.511734117.511735117.511736117.5117.537117.5117.538117.5117.539118117.540118117.541118117.542118117.543118117.544118117.545118117.5

These temperatures are remarkably similar. The rates of temperature change remained in lock-step, with surface temperature from copper tape being about 0.5 degrees cooler for the duration of the test.

Conclusion: There is no significant difference between the aluminum can strips and the copper tape as measured by heat transferred to the surface of the flashlight. I would choose the brushed aluminum can heat sink option because it is virtually free of cost, readily available, easier fit into the air space than copper tape, and slightly better during short light bursts.

Errors: I could have done a better job covering the dead air space with both the Al and Cu sinks. The aluminum strips were slightly wider than the copper tape by about 3mm. A control test run could be performed.

-Redhans


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## Kestrel (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Experiment: Aluminum Can Heat Sink vs Copper Tape Heat Sink*

Hello Redhans, :welcome:
Looking forward to seeing your test data.


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## texas cop (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Experiment: Aluminum Can Heat Sink vs Copper Tape Heat Sink*

I've changed to the soda can method and the best soda can for me is the 24 ounce Monsters. The metal is much thicker than normal soda cans at 0.004". One 8" strip usually gives a very snug fit. 8" is also conviently the circumference of the big can.


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## PCC (Sep 17, 2012)

I won't need to wrap my drop-ins when I'm done with them...


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## ledmitter_nli (Jun 10, 2013)

Can anyone chime in about using soda can strips wrapped around the P60...

The question is, will the thin interior anti-oxidizing coating and outside print coating impede heat transfer by any noteworthy amount?


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## RI Chevy (Jun 11, 2013)

I use the soda can (thin strip) on most all of my drop ins. Works very well.


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## Norm (Jun 11, 2013)

From post #1



Norm said:


> I then polished off the print with steel wool





ledmitter_nli said:


> Can anyone chime in about using soda can strips wrapped around the P60...
> 
> The question is, will the thin interior anti-oxidizing coating and outside print coating impede heat transfer by any noteworthy amount?



I still use this method and find it far tidier than tape or foil.

Norm


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## DellSuperman (Jun 12, 2013)

My personal experiences with aluminum or copper wrap is that when I want to change them between my other SolarForce host, they tend to have fitting issues. 
Surefire host are much narrower as compared to other host that I have & hence require much less wraps. 

I would wanna try the tin wrap since most reflectors are of standard size & the extra layers of metals follow the host and not the dropin. There should be less of those fitting issues when I swap dropins around. 

- JonK


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## thijsco19 (Jun 12, 2013)

I think the best thing you can do is make a 'spacer' for the dropin to fill up the gap.

This is what I did,







The only thing left to do is mount it with some thermal paste so the thermal path is more increased.

It's a XML dropin for the ultrafire WF-501B.

Here's the thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...501B-P60-mod&p=4090730&highlight=#post4090730 .


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## Norm (Jun 12, 2013)

thijsco19 said:


> I think the best thing you can do is make a 'spacer' for the dropin to fill up the gap.


 A fantastic solution, one unfortunately not available to the majority.

Norm


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## lunas (Jun 30, 2014)

they really should not have enough impact to notice


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## 1080 (Apr 2, 2015)

Great old thread so l will give it a bump.......& ask.....

do you take off the sticker with the dropin I.D. on it....eg. like the solarforce ones

before you put them into the host????????


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## DellSuperman (Apr 2, 2015)

1080 said:


> Great old thread so l will give it a bump.......& ask.....
> 
> do you take off the sticker with the dropin I.D. on it....eg. like the solarforce ones
> 
> before you put them into the host????????



It will be best to remove them since those stickers will create some form of insulation of the heat, due to the adhesive on them.


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