# Xenon Mag bulbs



## sniper (Jan 18, 2012)

I haven't had an incandescent bulb in a flashlight for years, but the other night, I found a stash of Mag Xenon bulbs, and a Radio Shack XPR 113. Soooo...I decided to try them in my 3D Mag with new batteries. 

Wow! Yellow, dim (compared to the Luxeon hotwire, and the Diamond drop-in) and artifact-ridden. Now, my memory isn't what it used to be, but iirc, before, the brightness and whiteness were much better than the standard Krypton bulbs Mag shipped in its lights. 

Is my memory faulty? I guess I probably have just become accustomed to the bright, white output of my LEDS. The brightest and least artifacty of the Xenons now resides in my shop light.

If I understand what I read on the forum, overdriving the Xenons produces a much brighter and whiter light. Sooo...like 4 C cells in a D body? 

Or should I just keep them for back-up in case of TEOTWAWKI?


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## Howecollc (Jan 21, 2012)

The only Mag Xenon bulb that will take overdrive is the 5 cell (and I guess the 6 cell also, but who uses 7 batteries). The 5 cell works well with 2 x RCR Li-Ion, but will flash with 3 x CR123 primaries. I can't remember if it flashes with 6 fresh alkalines, but I wouldn't be surprised. If you can keep it from flashing it is indeed super white at 7.2 to 7.4 volts.

The Mag Krypton 3 cell bulb overdriven with 4 C cells is pretty white and can take 4 fresh alkalines without flashing. I've never had a 4 cell Mag Xenon bulb, but I think it would probably be about identical in output and color to the overdriven 3 cell Krypton.


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## think2x (Jan 21, 2012)

I run a 5 cell Mag Xenon bulb on 6 C Alkalines and it's very white, no flash yet.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 21, 2012)

I don't mess with Xenon Mag bulbs but do drive 3 cell bulbs with 4C, 5 cell with 6 sub C and in one light that probably has a little resistance built in a 5 cell on 7 NimH sub C. 

The trick in a Mag is to find a perfect bulb (filament in the middle - not leaning) Center that puppy EXACTLY. Some sort of diffusion film on the lense helps too.


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## AnAppleSnail (Jan 21, 2012)

I frequently run 4-cell mag bulbs in a 2C Mag Lite on 2x18650. That is bulb abuse, though.

4.8v vs 7.2v nominal.


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## Howecollc (Jan 22, 2012)

think2x said:


> I run a 5 cell Mag Xenon bulb on 6 C Alkalines and it's very white, no flash yet.


That's interesting. Have you you been using the bulb long enough to run thru one set of batteries and then install a fresh set? This is usually where I have had questionably over-driven bulbs blow.


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## Howecollc (Jan 22, 2012)

Howecollc said:


> (.....but who uses 7 batteries?)





PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> .....and in one light that probably has a little resistance built in a 5 cell on 7 NimH sub C.


I stand corrected.


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## Juggernaut (Jan 29, 2012)

I've ran the 6 cell Xenon bulb on 7 D cells, super high surface brightness = amazing throw, but it only lasted about 12 minuets before it flashed:shakehead.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 29, 2012)

Howecollc said:


> I stand corrected.



But in case there is any confusion it is a Mag Krypton bulb I abuse, not a Xenon. They don't seem to like overdrive much.


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## Juggernaut (Jan 29, 2012)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> They don't seem to like overdrive much.


 Your right, They Don't!


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## Sci Fii (Jan 29, 2012)

Howecollc,

I thought I would add a little info I have as you seem to enjoy this stuff. I recently purchased 4 LifePO4 AA sized cells along with a charger as well as 4 dummy cells. I got these as I was going to try them in 2D flashlights using the AA to d converters. Haven't gotten around to getting the converters so I haven't done the 2D thing yet but then I realized I should try them in some 4AA lights I have using different bulbs and battery configurations.

The LIfePO4 cells are similar to CR123 cells in that their resting voltage is about 3.2 (mine are 3.33) but from my reading one benefit of them is that they hold their voltage under load better than any other chemistry. The first configuration I used was 2 LP4 cells with two dummies and a magnumstar 4. I was hoping this would be a good bit brighter than a three cell in a 4AA using NIMH put it's only very marginally so. Nice, but not as I expected. Next I tried a 6 cell magnumstar using 3 cells and a dummy. I've had this bulb around for a while and had never had a light it fit. As I estimated (based upon other readings and could very well be wrong) that the light would have about 9.0V underload. I've flashed so many bulbs in the past year experimenting that I really hate it now, even of the bulb is worthless. I thought that might happen here but everything was fine. The results were great. Makes the four cell look a bit weak. Also, I have a couple AW IMR 14500 so I compared it to that when using a magnumstar 5 cell. The lights were identical so the comparison was fair. The six cell is a good bit brighter as expected. Also, I think it's a bit whiter. Turns this $8 light into something very useful. The final test I did was with an HPX53 from Dorcy. I really didn't expect the bulb would withstand the voltage but it did surprisingly. Well, at least for a while. Wow, that thing is a lot brighter than the 6 cell. I flashed it last night using fresh cells. The one I flash was a Dorcy generic HPX53 not a Phillips. I have two of the Phillips so I'll try them eventually. I think they will hold up better.








Howecollc said:


> The only Mag Xenon bulb that will take overdrive is the 5 cell (and I guess the 6 cell also, but who uses 7 batteries). The 5 cell works well with 2 x RCR Li-Ion, but will flash with 3 x CR123 primaries. I can't remember if it flashes with 6 fresh alkalines, but I wouldn't be surprised. If you can keep it from flashing it is indeed super white at 7.2 to 7.4 volts.
> 
> The Mag Krypton 3 cell bulb overdriven with 4 C cells is pretty white and can take 4 fresh alkalines without flashing. I've never had a 4 cell Mag Xenon bulb, but I think it would probably be about identical in output and color to the overdriven 3 cell Krypton.


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## Howecollc (Jan 30, 2012)

You seem to have had better luck overdriving the MagStars than some others around here. I used to overdrive a 4 cell Mag WhiteStar (Krypton) with a MagCharger battery stick (5 ni-cad 1/2D cells), but found that while the bulb always made it thru one full discharge, it would usually blow shortly after recharging the stick and starting over, even after letting the cells rest for a day. After seeing this trend continue thru 3 bulbs I finally gave up on that set-up. I never would have thought that a Xenon would do any better, but maybe those 1/2D ni-cads had less voltage sag than your LiFePO4s.

That 6 cell MagStar running on the equivalent of 7.5 to 8 cells is certainly interesting. One comparison I'm curious about that maybe you didn't try is the Philips HPX-53 running on your two IMR 14500s compared to the 6 cell MagStar on 3 LiFePO4s. I know the MagStar will be whiter, but I wonder if it will be any brighter than the HPX-53. If the 6 cell is brighter then that's something I'll have to keep in mind.

Also, I don't know if you have 7 NiMH cells lying around or not, but you've got me thinking that the Philips bulb would probably be able to handle them long term. I'm very curious anyway.

Your efforts (and losses) are certainly appreciated by all.


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## Sci Fii (Jan 30, 2012)

Howecollc,

My experience with Mag bulbs has been basically the same as everyone else. I have been able to overdrive Xenon bulbs for about one set of batteries and then they flash after that. Also, like you I have had the whitestars flash as well. The main difference was that the whitestar would last a bit longer. Still, they really don't hold up well to overdriving. 

One of the reasons I got the LifePO4's was because of their lack of voltage sag. Sort of like a built in soft start. So, in the case of using the three, I have 10.0V on start up and maybe 9.0V under load. I have no way of testing this so this is just my guess (although through comparisons to other configurations I can make some estimates). Now, the light itself is a cheap Dorcy 4AA that has to have some resistance. Additionally, I believe the dummy cell does as well based on comparisons using a 4AA with two dummies versus a 2AA. Given this, I would expect that the start-up voltage is approximately the same as 6 D cells. However, since the LifePO4 don't sag as much as alkalines or NiMH the effective voltage is much higher. Again, no tests. I could be wrong. So what I end up is I believe a light that can safely run the 6 cell bulb. I haven't run it that much in this configuration but will do so and report how long the bulb lasts. I'm hopeful this will be the case as I've only ever had Mag bulbs flash on start up. Never had one fail when it's on.

I will gladly do the test of the HPX53 versus the 6 cell. Easy to do. My guess is that the 6 cell will be a bit brighter overall and a much nicer, white light. The 6 cell in this configuration is definitely brighter than the 5 cell. It's also a bit whiter perhaps indicating it's being driven harder.

As to the 7 NIMH, I have them but no way to use them as I don't have any 6AA or 9AA converters. Getting started in this hobby just in the last year has made it tough to get some of the things many of you have. I wish I could just walk into a store and buy this stuff. I'm not that good about taking the time to order over the internet.


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## Sci Fii (Jan 30, 2012)

Howe, 

The answer to your question is as I expected. The 6 cell with 3 LifePO4 cells is a fair bit brighter than the Phillips HPX53 using two AW IMR 14500's. I just used a ceiling bounce test to determine this. This difference, while not huge, is noticeable. I don't have 4 IMR 14500's to do a direct comparison between the 5 cell and the HPX53 but there isn't a huge difference between the two. Likely the HPX gives off more light than the 5 cell but hard to say exactly given the color difference. With the 6 cell, there is no doubt.

I'm in the process of trying the Pelican Big Ed bulb with 4 NiZN cells. This bulb is a monster in the 4AA so far using cells at less than full charge. I'm slowly working the voltage up to see what it can take. If this bulb can take 4 NiZN cells, it will be a good bit brighter than the the HPX53 on 3 LifePO4 cells. I would think well over 300 bulb lumens. 

Let me know if there are any other things that I can try. I have a few things left to do but any suggestions are appreciated.


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## sween1911 (Jan 31, 2012)

I'm running my 4D with a Xenon Mag bulb, and a lightly sputtered reflector, and the spot is white and pretty darn good actually.
Friend of mine used to run a 2D Xenon in his 3D, and the output was very nice and it held up pretty well.


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## PlayboyJoeShmoe (Jan 31, 2012)

If you have the ability to make it happen, a Magcharger bulb running on 6AA NimH or 2x18650 Li-Ion seems to be very bright and quite robust! 

If you can't play with Bi-Pin bulbs then I suggest a ROP HI bulb on 6AA or 6 2/3 C in a 4D Mag. 2x18650 in a 2D might be doable, but I run mine in the 4D with the 2/3 C cells.


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## Howecollc (Feb 1, 2012)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> If you have the ability to make it happen, a Magcharger bulb running on 6AA NimH or 2x18650 Li-Ion seems to be very bright and quite robust!


I've played around a little with overdriving my MagCharger bulbs, either by dropping 2 18650s in my MC or by adding one alkaline D cell to the back of the 5 cell NiCad pack. Both were for a short duration (maybe 15 seconds at a time) just to see what kind of a difference the extra voltage would make. While it did indeed make the bulb's output whiter and a little brighter, I was concerned that the bulb wouldn't do very well long term with the overdrive. This concern was mostly because someone else here on CPF said a few years back that he only got a couple of battery discharge cycles out of the bulbs before they blew.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-suggestions&p=3092080&viewfull=1#post3092080

Are you running the newer narrow filament type of MC bulbs or the older wide filament type? The older wide filament type also have numbers inked in black near the base of the bulb.


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## nighttrails (Feb 1, 2012)

Howecollc said:


> I've played around a little with overdriving my MagCharger bulbs, either by dropping 2 18650s in my MC or by adding one alkaline D cell to the back of the 5 cell NiCad pack. Both were for a short duration (maybe 15 seconds at a time) just to see what kind of a difference the extra voltage would make. While it did indeed make the bulb's output whiter and a little brighter, I was concerned that the bulb wouldn't do very well long term with the overdrive. This concern was mostly because someone else here on CPF said a few years back that he only got a couple of battery discharge cycles out of the bulbs before they blew.
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-suggestions&p=3092080&viewfull=1#post3092080
> 
> Are you running the newer narrow filament type of MC bulbs or the older wide filament type? The older wide filament type also have numbers inked in black near the base of the bulb.



I run overdriven magcharger bulbs (the "new" version) with 6 NiMh D batteries in a 6D mag, and with 2 26650 batteries in a 2D. The soft start of AW's incan driver makes it quite long lasting. If the batteries are hot off the charger, I just run on medium for a few minutes before going to high. Much of the time I run these set ups on medium, for an output not much different than a standard magcharger.

Without the AW driver, batteries hot off the charger were blowing the bulb. The bulb was pretty short lived even playing with rested batteries. Lux's testing had the magcharger bulb flashing at 8.2 volts. Unless you have a lot of resistance in your flashlight, I would say AW's driver or some sort of soft start is a must. 


The good news is magcharger bulbs are cheap and can be found for under $3.50. And with the introduction of the new magcharger model on top of the mountain of magchargers already sold over the last two decades, bulbs should be available for well into the future.


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## Nightman (Feb 2, 2012)

For what it's worth I've been using a 5 cell Xenon bulb in my 2C with two 18650 batteries. The first bulb blew quite fast (maximum 3 charges) but the second has been holding up for a long time, granted I don't use the flashlight that much. But to me it seems to be a bit about luck when you're driving them to the edge (as always with incans).


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## Sci Fii (Feb 2, 2012)

PlayboyJoeShmoe said:


> If you have the ability to make it happen, a Magcharger bulb running on 6AA NimH or 2x18650 Li-Ion seems to be very bright and quite robust!
> 
> If you can't play with Bi-Pin bulbs then I suggest a ROP HI bulb on 6AA or 6 2/3 C in a 4D Mag. 2x18650 in a 2D might be doable, but I run mine in the 4D with the 2/3 C cells.



PJS,

Thanks for the suggestions but I actually don't have any of those parts. No Maglight, 6AA converter, bi-pin adapter or bulb. I just don't like metal lights and li-ion (except the two 14500's I have that are little used) isn't for me. I like my fingers attached to my hands. I know there are bigger and badder lights out there but I enjoy what I have. I'll probably pick up a ROP bulb set and use the lo bulb with 4 NIZN in my 4AA. Fivemega has said this is a pretty bright light used in short bursts. I'll try it eventually but if the Pelican 3754 bulb can take the full load of 4 NiZN I expect this bulb to be brighter than the ROP lo at this voltage.


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