# Q re. WA1274 vs WA1185



## Ty_Bower (Sep 15, 2005)

*Q re. WA bulbs (1274 vs 1185)*

I'm enjoying a 2D Mag74. Thanks, Greg! 

I have a question regarding choice of bulb. This Mag74 is bored out, and will easily take 7 or 8 cells. Right now, it has 7 cells. I'd expect that 8 cells would blow the WA1274.

After running it for a while, I put my meter on the pack and read 9.0 volts (no load). Under load, it pulls about 2.9 amps. Per the Welch Allyn web site, I'm guessing this means the voltage is dropping to somewhere around 7.8 volts under load, with a corresponding output of around 740 lumens. 

Fudging the numbers around a bit, I'm guessing that running a WA1185 bulb in the same light, but with 8 cells instead of 7 would probably give me a voltage under load somewhere around 8.9v. The charts for the 1185 show an output of around 625 lumens, which is less than the 1174 on overdrive, but the bulb life is almost ten times greater. The CCT is about 100 degrees yellower, but will I notice it that much?

Any thoughts? I know people have tried this before, and there must be a reason they don't bother to do it.


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## offroadcmpr (Sep 15, 2005)

I use the mag 85 in the 8 AA way because my battery charger only charges 4 batteries at a time and I did not want to get a new charger, or do 3 charge cycles at a time.

I use rayovac 1800's in it.

It is bright, but not the whitest beam. The bulb life will be longer than the 74, but I think the 74 is a little brighter and whiter.

It seemed around the same brightness but with more throw as my dad's hid bike light. I think his is 12 watts

(http://www.niterider.com/products.php?sku=6377 (with out the LED's)

After the light is turned on for a few seconds, there is a noticable drop in brightness. This could probally be fixed with better batteries. The beam color is not too bad after the batteries are just charged, but after a day or two from the last charging, I want to charge them again to get a whiter light.

My advice, stick with the 74.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Sep 15, 2005)

Whats the lamp life on the 74 in the mag74, I also have one on the way :rock: .

-PSM


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## The-David (Sep 15, 2005)

I just build my first [email protected] 74 and WOW!!! Thanks to everyone that helped me on this one...


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## SJACKAL (Sep 15, 2005)

Lamp life of 1274 is something like 40hrs instead of 1185's 50hrs, and 1274 with 7AAs are overdrived. I had blown a number of 1185 bulbs and but yet I am still on my first bulb with the 1274. Numbers are just a guide, lotsa of other factors comes it.


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## Ty_Bower (Sep 15, 2005)

PoliceScannerMan said:


> Whats the lamp life on the 74 in the mag74, I also have one on the way


To a certain extent, it depends on the brand of AA cells you use. I'm using Panasonic 2300 cells, and I've measured current draws around 2.9A. According to Welch Allyn's web site, I should expect to see around 12 hours of bulb life. If your cells are good at delivering current, or you keep them frequently topped off, the rated life could be lower - maybe 6 hours or so.

As SJackal said, it depends on lotsa things.


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## PoliceScannerMan (Sep 15, 2005)

How about energizer 2500's, I got them brand new. Will 2500mAh work ok?


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## Ty_Bower (Sep 16, 2005)

*Re: Q re. WA bulbs (1274 vs 1185)*



PoliceScannerMan said:


> How about energizer 2500's, I got them brand new. Will 2500mAh work ok?


I would think they should work just fine. The 1274 is overdriven on seven cells, so even if your cells are sagging under load, you've still got volts to spare. The light itself is bored out, so just about any AA cell will fit in it, regardless of how fat it is.

Anyway, back to the subject. I'm still trying to see if there's a good eight cell bulb for this light. It sounds like the 1185 isn't it, because most cells can't supply the necessary current. What about one of the lower current WA 9.6v lamps? Maybe something like the 1318/1331 at 1.93 amps? Or the 1171/1328 at 1.33 amps? By the way, what's the difference between these seemingly identically spec'd bulbs?

I'm wishing WA offered more options in their 9.0 volt category. Something like a 9.0 volt, 2.4 amp bulb would be perfect.


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## litho123 (Sep 16, 2005)

*Re: Q re. WA bulbs (1274 vs 1185)*



Ty_Bower said:


> What about one of the lower current WA 9.6v lamps? Maybe something like the 1318/1331 at 1.93 amps? Or the 1171/1328 at 1.33 amps? By the way, what's the difference between these seemingly identically spec'd bulbs?
> 
> I'm wishing WA offered more options in their 9.0 volt category. Something like a 9.0 volt, 2.4 amp bulb would be perfect.


 
Hi Ty - 

The difference between the 1318 and 1331 is two things...
The bulbs have the same specs but the filament height is different by a fraction. There is also a dramatic difference in price.
The 1331's have been FS on CPF for 5.00 - 5.50 range
The 1318's have been FS for around 8.00 - 9.00 range

I would suspect there is a similar price difference between the 1171 and 1328.

RE: a bulb designed for running on 8 cells, didn't Fivemega come out with a custom 7.2v bulb (performance specs unknown/unpublished)?

I have run across a bulb that in theory would fit the profile of running on 8 cells but it is very inefficient and has a really short runtime. I haven't bought it because there are brighter, more efficient bulbs to be found with longer runtime that run on 6 or 7 cells.


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## Austin (Sep 16, 2005)

I am also trying to figure out if there is a better option than the WA1274 for a Mag2D. It seems most bulbs are designed for voltages corresponding to an even number of cells: 4.8V, 7.2V, 9.6V. The hotwire mods overdrive the bulbs by 10-20% by adding one cell, so you end up with an odd number. So you either have to use a 2D with 7 cells or a 3D with 9 cells. Ideally you would want an 8.4V bulb overdriven to 9.6V. I don't know if such a bulb exists.


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## Donovan (Sep 16, 2005)

I too use a Mag85 on 8 cells.. I have wondered also, if a 1274 would be better? I am quite pleased with the output of the 1185 on 8 cells. Plus since I am driving it at around stock voltage, I am still on my original bulb!


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## Ginseng (Sep 16, 2005)

Austin said:


> I am also trying to figure out if there is a better option than the WA1274 for a Mag2D. It seems most bulbs are designed for voltages corresponding to an even number of cells: 4.8V, 7.2V, 9.6V. The hotwire mods overdrive the bulbs by 10-20% by adding one cell, so you end up with an odd number. So you either have to use a 2D with 7 cells or a 3D with 9 cells. Ideally you would want an 8.4V bulb overdriven to 9.6V. I don't know if such a bulb exists.



A good one does not exist. WA makes bulbs in this voltage but not with the amperage and efficacy that makes a great hot wire. An 8.4V, 250 hour, 3.5A bulb overdriven on 9 x HC cells has the potential to deliver almost 1,500 bulb lumens in a 3D. That's a couple hundred better than the WA01185 driven by the same pack. 

Wilkey


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## Ginseng (Sep 16, 2005)

BTW,

The WA01111 is a 5 cell bulb that takes overdrive to 6 cells and makes whopping white light. This is what is used in one of the aftermarket TigerLight upgrades. IIRC, it's quite a bit more compelling than the WA01274 on six cells.

Wilkey


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## The-David (Sep 18, 2005)

For aneyone thats intrested this is my [email protected] 74 on the left run off of 7AA and on the right is my Suerfire E2E on new 123's


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## wquiles (Sep 19, 2005)

Can somebody please remind me what is the expected runtime from 9AA (say 2500mAH) on a 3D using FM's excellent holder for:

- WA1185

- WA1318

I seem to remember something like 15 minutes for the WA1185 or so, and I would expect even longer on the lower-current 1318.

I really like the WA1185 but (do I dare even say it  ) it is almost too much sometimes, so I am thinking that the WA1318 might be just right 

Will


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## litho123 (Sep 20, 2005)

Hi wquiles - 

The 1185 will give you approx 25 - 35 minutes depending on your set of nimh batts.

The 1331 is much cheaper than the 1318. Same specs - there is a small dimensional difference between the two that is immaterial for our applications. You'll get 55 - 65 minutes of runtime.

There is also the 1306 which Lurveleven has been reporting on. 
WA01306: 9.6v 1.10a spec (239 b-lumens) / pushed to 10.8v (360 b-lumens)
This should deliver well over 90 minutes if not closer to 2 hours of runtime.

All 3 bulbs are nice on 9AA nimh batts.


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## wquiles (Sep 20, 2005)

litho123,

Thanks so much - awesome information!.

For how I use my hotwires, I simply find my M*g85 to be an not "right" in three ways:
1) Too bright (I know - I should have my head examined!)
2) Too hot after 5-10 minutes. Plus even on a quality al MOP I can start seeing some of the heat-generated damage right on the rim of the reflector where it is closest to the bulb!
3) Too short runtime. 15-20 minutes is not a lot, and since it is not regulated, it only looks nice and white at the beguining 

I have compared my M*g Charger with the 1160 bulb and it is not "white" enough - still some yellow. I love something white like the 85's "tint".

Last night I put the 1331 on my 3D (I am using Kiu's excellent bi-pin holder!) but only after using the 1185 for a few minutes to drain the battery a "little" so that I would not insta-flash the 1331. I ran out of time last night, but I will try it tonight to see if this combo fits the bill.

So I am looking for alternatives that give me less lumens (I know - I need a catscan or something), more runtime, and less heat. That is why I am considering other lamps/bulbs. Maybe something in the 250-350 lumens would be perfect if I can get a decent 1 hour runtime or more. Maybe a poor man's SF M6 with LOLA equivalent?

And of course, I think that we "really" need some sort of regulator (a soft start would be nice) so that we can really enjoy our hotwire M*g's 

Will


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## Lurveleven (Sep 20, 2005)

Will, you really have to try the 1306. It is just what you are after.

Sigbjoern


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## wquiles (Sep 20, 2005)

Sigbjoern,

Excellent - I am ready to try it :thanks:

Who has these in stock so that I can order a few to "play" with?

Also: with 9AA Energizer 2500mAH, how much "resting" time do I need so that I don't instaflash the 1306 bulbs? Asked another way: with my DMM, what is a "safe" no-load voltage to use?. I ask since fresh from the Triton charger these cells (in FM's 9AA holder) peak at close 12.5-13 volts !

Will


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## Lurveleven (Sep 20, 2005)

You can get the 1306 from Litho123 here.

It has the same life rating as the 1185 so at least the same amount of rest as the 1185 needs is required. And since it doesn't pull so much current, you may want to rest the cells even longer than you do for the 1185.

Sigbjoern


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## wquiles (Sep 20, 2005)

:thanks: 

Will


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## wquiles (Sep 20, 2005)

By the way, since it is already dark here in Texas, I was able to play some with the 1318 and the rested 9xAA pack. Ran the light for a good 15 minutes straight - still too bright/hot for my intended use, so I will be ordering some 1306's from lito123 tonight 

Will


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## andrewwynn (Sep 23, 2005)

i have the 1331 and love it for the reasonable brightness and long runtime.. but blew two pretty quick with 'hot' batteries.. i use the CBP 1650s in my hotwire host and have tested those batteries to the likes of 6A with no dip below 1.2V/cell. they are pretty tough. 

I bought some more 1331s from Litho123.. but planning to wait 'til i get my 'soft start' installed before i start using them.. i think that will be a very nice bulb for your desires.. i for one am not happy with how much the 1185 drops in output while the batteries get down to normal output.. the output was much more even with the 1331. 

Another marvelous option and probalby more reliable.. and very white is the 1166.. 

at roughtly 10.3-10.5V (under load and at the bulb).. (reg. mag switch.. 0.15ohm)

1154: 19% underdrive, 30W, 450 lum, 15 lum/w 3075 cct, 1770 hr life, 51min 
1166: 14% underdrive, 20W 500 lum, 25 lum/w 3375 cct, 45 hr life, 80 min
1331: 14% overdrive, 21W 730 lum, 34 lum/w 3426 cct, 8.5hr life, 74 min
1185: 12% overdrive. 34W, 1050 lum, 31 lum/2 3499 cct, 12.2 hr life, 45 min.

With a low-reistance FET switch:

at roughtly 10.6-10.7V (under load and at the bulb).. 

1154: 17% underdrive, 31W, 500 lum, 16 lum/w, 51min 
1166: 12% underdrive, 20W 531 lum, 27 lum/w, 80 min
1331: 17% overdrive, 22W 780 lum, 36 lum/w, 74 min
1185: 16% overdrive. 35W, 1169 lum, 33 lum/w, 45 min.

the runtime est. is for 2500mAH AAx9.. that is purely mathematical i would not expect to get more than 80-90% of that.. I use CBP 1650s and i would bet that even with more losses in the 2500s since they are really only pushed to 1.3C even with the 1185 you'll get longer runtimes than the 'higher drain' batteries. 

the 1274 needs some overdrive to 'get cooking'.. I think that people really happy with it use 7cells.. with 'six' (7.2V) you'll get about 6.8V at the bulb.. 

18W, 450 lum.. 25 lum/w.. 40 hr life.. and 56 minutes runtime on 2500s.

with a better switch:
7.07V at the switch
19W, 518 lum, 27 lum/w.

for a 'six cell' (7.2V) solution my favorite 'by the specs' is the 1111 which i've heard good things about.. but also: 

with 7.2V bat and stock switch:
6.66V, 24W, 670 lum, 28 lum/w, 11.2hours 42min runtime

but with an FET switch (or possibly the likes of KIU switch mod with some pro-gold on the contacts of the switch:

25% overdrive: 
7.02V, 25W, 806lum, 32 lum/w

looks like MY mag hotwires are getting some FET switches soon!

-awr


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## juancho (Sep 23, 2005)

Picture of the FET and where we are going to get it???


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## waion (Sep 24, 2005)

I've modded my mag2C to use a 12740 with two 18650 cells. It's quite impressive in terms of brigthness and weight in the size of this kind.

However, poor 18650 will turn the light into orange colour (undrive) very fast. The runtime and output are quite nice when I used some good quality 18650.


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## juancho (Sep 24, 2005)

Hi waion,
I am running my 2 C with two of AW 18650 protected, but it will not take the 1274 bulb (the bulb don't light up) so I imagine you are talking about unprotected batteries??

The bulb I use is KPR 112.
regards
Juancho


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## waion (Sep 29, 2005)

Hi, Juancho,

Yes. I haven't tried AW's protected 18650 in my mag2C 12740 mod. I'm using the other unprotected 18650 from him instead.

If the bulb doesn't light up, I think that's some problem in the connection, right? My mag2C 12740 is working very well. It has runtime of about an hour.


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## offroadcmpr (Sep 29, 2005)

I think that if the bulb does not light up it means that the protective circuitry is kicking in in the cells. That is why you need unprotected cells for it to work.


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## juancho (Sep 30, 2005)

Hi waion,
Yes is like offroad said, the protected cells cut off because the amperage that the 1274 demands is too hig for them, you don't have that problem with the umprotected ones that can deliver up to 20 amps or more, but you have to deal with the safety issues of having two in lines batteries and charging them under controlled conditions.

Just be careful and pull them out of the light when not in use.

regards
Juancho.


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## andrewwynn (Oct 1, 2005)

juancho.. the FET just looks like a typical black IC.. with 3 wires coming out of a piece of plastic.. and a heat-sink conenctor on one side... i have some circuits for it shown here... but those are actually more complicated.. 

I figured out a reality that is very good for mag modders.. the FET is not needed below 4-5A... the mag switch itself is decently low resistance as long as you aren't using the PR bulb (i.e the sliding contact).. 

If you have a PR based high-power light like the 1274 or 1185.. you should immediately fix it by taking apart the PR switch (only tool needed: 5/64 hex wrench)... by putting a contact ehnahcer on the contacts and by soldering some braided wire (solder wick) between the top and bottom contacts inside the spring inside the PR base.. you will drop the mag switch's resistance from over 160miliohm to about 50 miliohm.. 

I am working on a 'hack' to the switch that will put it in-league with FET just by hard-wiring one side of the switch to the positive battery terminal.. as it turns out... the magswitch is actually two switches in series with each other.. they are very descent switches.. actually exceptional.. (5 miliohms resistance!).. that's 0.005 ohms.. but putting two in series makes them 10... soldering some solder wick to the moving part and replacing the first contact should half the resistance to 5 miliohms.. but that's almost a moot point.. here's the facts: 

with the 1185 as an example.. PR based.. stock everytyhing.. expect about 1024 lumen... do the spring-short and contact enhancer (pro gold is what i use.. it's pricy... $30/oz).. lasts a looong time.. you could probably use WD-40 and get a decent improvment though.. the output will jump up to like 1200 lumen... and either the 'hack' on the switch or an FET switch will only get you up to 1227 (1.5% add'l improvment)... as typical.. law of diminishing returns. 

waion.. if you are using a PR-based bulb.. i would expect to lose 3-4/10ths of a volt on the switch meaning your 553 lumen bulb will output 453-484 (bulb lumens).. by soldering some wire braid up the spring you'll get more like 511 lumen average (i base all my calculations on 'avg running' votlage of 3.6/cell LiON.. there will be a 'spike' of output with fresh cells and that will also be brigther than you are used to of course.

in other words... 511/453= 13% gain in output just from fixing that spring. going full-fet.. probably can get as much as 540+lumen and with bipin KIU should be close to 530... 

I haven't done testing on the magC switch it's supposed to be better than the 'd' but most of the resistance is in the spring going up the middle. 

juancho.. there are different threads about high-current startup shutting down the light, but usually you'll get a 'blink'... it is possible you aren't getting a connection.. especiallky with 'flat top' batteries... if you dont' get a 'blink' than measure voltage w/o a bulb in and make sure you have a complete circuit. 

Be very careful using unprotected LiON cells in an incan.. they should not be used unsupervised or by somebody unaware of the concept of over-discharge.. once it starts dimming quickly time to turn off the light and recharge.. if it got 'really dim'.. i.e. left it on too long.. measure the Vbat on each cell.. if they are even close to 3V or lower they are ruined and throw them out.. recharging can litreally make them explode.

-awr


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## Lightedge (Oct 6, 2005)

2 of my favorites-

Mag 2C - WA1183 bulb and 4 1/2 sub c batteries. Probably about 300L. Best config I've found for 2C. Tail cap can be bored out and light will probably handle 5 1/2 sub c's and overdrive the WA1160. I haven't the time to seriously look at this second option.

Mag 3C - WA1331 bulb and 3 Pila 150A cells. Probably about 500L. This one is my favorite. Similar throw as 1185 with lower heat, longer run time. Pila's provide a very white light for most of the charge.

Also, I much prefer the form factor of the "C's" versus the "D's". Just personal preference.


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## andrewwynn (Oct 7, 2005)

what a neat idea the 4 subc's. man there are just wwaaay to many possibilities for battery possibilities! I calcualte 270L with the 1183 if the PR switch.. put in a KIU and get up to 400L... great form-factor, nice.

If you have PR.. fix the switch your output will go from 270 to 385.. with such a low voltage bulb the voltage swing at the high amperage is a large percentage of the total voltage.. it is absolutely stunning how different it is. 

150s x 3 should be able to hold 10.8V or close at 2A.. you should have a LOT more output than 500L.. closer to 700+ (my calculations show 780 with the KIU switch, 720 with the PR stock switch). 

I really like that bulb (1331).. but i blew a couple with too fresh of batteries.. a problem i intend to fix asap so i can use the two more i bought to replace them! 

-awr


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## Lightedge (Nov 17, 2005)

I'm estimating torch lumens but don't consider myself to be a wiz at this sort of thing. I'm using a formula from Ginseng I saw a long time ago and assuming torch lumen=bulb lumen x 67%. It's probably a rough calc but close enough for most peoples purposes.

The 3C is a spankin nice light. The 1185 is definitely brighter but not enough so for me to give up the form factor of a "C".

What do I need to do to my 2C switch to get more output?


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## andrewwynn (Nov 29, 2005)

about to post the switch fix.

-awr


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## Mike Painter (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: Q re. WA bulbs (1274 vs 1185)*



> The CCT is about 100 degrees yellower, but will I notice it that much?



Unless you compare it directly tosomething you will probably not notice it.
A few weeks ago I was showing my modamag LED to someone and his light was *very* yellow when he lit the ground next to me.

A few seconds later, with my light turned off he aimed his at some trees and the light seemed quite white.
(Of course his spot disappeared when I turned my light on high.)


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## andrewwynn (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: Q re. WA bulbs (1274 vs 1185)*

I finally got to make a 1274 really shine!.. put it in an 8AA NiMH host.. and set the regulator to 8.3V... that's about 900/600 lumen.. apparently the filament is bigger than the 1166.. makes a fuller beam and really seemed like more light.. might have been a little lower CCT but it was jaw dropping to see the light lit up properly. 

-awr


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