# Surefire L4 - Rechargeable 3.0v cr123a's



## Weskix (Aug 30, 2006)

Has anyone tried 3.0v Rechargeable CR123a's in a Surefire L4? I really dont care to blow my torch but would certainly like an alternative for power. From what i've read it seems under load these batteries are regulated to 3.0v and would not fry my light. Please correct me if I am wrong.


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## VWTim (Aug 30, 2006)

That's questionable, as I hear a lot of the 3V cells only regulate to 3V after initial draw. Just pick up a 17670 from AW and you'll be set and safe.


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## Weskix (Aug 30, 2006)

Also for the Moderators, I placed this thread in general due to the fact it is kinda a question regarding two things, The flashlight itself, and Batteries. I figured one post was better than two. 

It appears that AW is out of those batt's right now, I will continue to monitor his stock. As of now I have 6 3.0v Rechargeable Cr123's on the way. Now i just need to find the Cojones to put them in my flashlight.


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## Mad1 (Aug 30, 2006)

You can get the 17670 here.
http://www.lighthound.com/sales/protected_lithium_batteries.htm


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## cqbdude (Aug 30, 2006)

Another Vote for the 17670...I use them for all of my 2 x 123 surefire lights...


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## Long John (Aug 30, 2006)

Hello Weskix and welcome at CPF

Like the others mentioned, I wouldn't put them in your L4. Go with one 17670.

I've read the RCR3,0 V (I don't own them) will come up to 3,7V out of the charger and at some lights of members the led fryd.

Also the capacity of one 17670 is more, about one hour regulated output.

You have ordered 6 of the 3,0 Volts, hmmmm, now it's time for a custom light

Best regards

_____
Tom


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## Weskix (Aug 30, 2006)

As per everyone's recommendations, I have purchased Li-Ion 2 17670, Is this true that with only 1400 Mah that 17670 will provide equal runtime to 2 standard CR123A batteries which would have an approximate mah of 2600 combined (I might be mistaken, please realize i'm a Newbie).


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## Planterz (Aug 30, 2006)

The 17670 has a couple obvious disadvantages performance-wise comapred to 2xCR123As. Capacity and voltage. It's a misnomer to think that 2xCR123As at 1300mAh make 2600mAh, instead you get 6V at 1300mAh (2*3=6). However, the L4, having regulation circuitry that boosts lower voltage, you can make the inference that 2xCR123As have more capacity that the li-ion. 

The one advantage that the 17670 has over the 2xCR123As, which makes up for some of the differences, is that it has lower internal resistance. So while it doesn't have as much voltage, the juice flows easier, more efficiently.

Surefire's nomenclature on the L4 states a 1 hour runtime on 2xCR123As, testing shows it to be longer than that. 1 hour from a 17670 (I cannot verify this personally, just going by what other people say) is quite good. And much cheaper than constantly feeding your L4 primaries.


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## faucon (Aug 31, 2006)

Quickbeam's tests (www.flashlightreviews.com) show that the L4 works well on protected 17670s (or on Pila 600s cells which are essentially the same thing). The L4 has exactly the same output on these rechargeables as it does on primary cells. I would expect runtime to be less---but as other members have pointed out, the savings in expensive batteries really adds up over time.


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## ICUDoc (Aug 31, 2006)

Weskix
In regards to batteries generally: (not specifically for the L4)
I don't think you will find R123As with high capacities- they are generally 500-750mAh capacity. 
Using two gives twice the voltage (in series configuration which is OK ) OR twice the run-time ( if connected in parallel-NOT recommended), not both (as Planterz explained). 
The trouble is that non-rechargeables have longer run times but when they're gone, they're gone. The bigger (17670, 18650) cells are good value in terms of price and runtime (see AW's battery sales threads...http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=97268)
Have fun


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## KDOG3 (Aug 31, 2006)

Hmmm, interesting thread. I have a new KL3 head on an L5 body and been wondering what a good rechargeable solution might be. I know nothing about the 17650 or the 18650. I assume the 18650 won't fit in the L5?


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## MSaxatilus (Aug 31, 2006)

> I assume the 18650 won't fit in the L5?


 
No it won't unless you have it bored out like mine!  

I get about 90 minutes of runtime with an LG 2400mAh battery. I just ordered a few of LG's new 2600 mAh batteries and they should give me around 100 minutes of runtime. :naughty:


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## Weskix (Aug 31, 2006)

My next question is, Do the 17670's make full contact in the light? I read somewhere about having to put some type of magnet on the end to make the Pila batteries contact? and since the 17670 is relativly the same battery will it require something of this sort as well?


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## Planterz (Aug 31, 2006)

A 123A cell is standardized between 33.5-34.5mm. So a 17670 (being 67mm long) should be within spec...any variences beyond (or rather, below) this length should be taken up by spring slack. Spacer (magnets) shouldn't be necessary. 

I think older Pila 168S cells were only 65mm long (being 17650s) and might have needed spacers. These have been replaced (or renamed) by the 600S cell which is 68mm long.


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## Weskix (Aug 31, 2006)

Thanks for all the help guys, it is greatly appreciated. Now it sounds like i need to start modding some of these danged Mag Lites laying around.


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## KDOG3 (Aug 31, 2006)

Any guess as to runtime on the KL3 head? Gets roughly 4hrs on primaries. Is the brightness the same?


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## Dijon (Aug 31, 2006)

I love my addiction. I have an L4 that is supposed to be here today and I am now ordering rechargeables for it and my other 2xCR123s.


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## Cadster (Sep 1, 2006)

I'm not sure if this is the correct thread for this question...
Oh well, I was EDC'ing a TW4 for quite some time, totally ignorant of the potential hazards of the unprotected RCR123. I've since stopped carrying it, but I would be most grateful if anyone here can suggest an appropriate substitution that would be less dangerous.


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## marxs (Sep 3, 2006)

Cadster: I would think the most appropriate substitute would be a protected RCR123 instead of an unprotected one. as for the runtimes that I am not sure, though im hoping someone here could shed some light on that, im thinking of building myself a tw4 setup as well, one sweet small bright light. Do note that even on RCR123 you wont be getting any regulation at all :thumbsdow...or so i read

mark


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## Cadster (Sep 4, 2006)

marxs: Thanks for the info. My initial understanding of the use of unprotected cells allowed the L4 head to run at full intensity (and I assumed, full regulation) since unprotected cells are at 4.2V 'hot off the charger'. I thought I had read somewhere that protected cells, when fully charged, would start out at a lower voltage. As a result, the light might not run at maximum brightness or in regulation, as you stated in your post. So I guess my real question is, can I run a TW4 configuration that is safe _and_ at full intensity? :thinking:


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## BrianChan (Sep 4, 2006)

KDOG3 said:


> Any guess as to runtime on the KL3 head? Gets roughly 4hrs on primaries. Is the brightness the same?



About 3 hours. I tried with a protected 17670, turned it on and took a nap. Woke up 2 and a half hours later the light was still going strong. Close to the 3 hour mark it starts to dim. Brightness is the same i guess? Compared to primaries there were no visible difference in brightness.


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## marxs (Sep 4, 2006)

i was doing a little digging last night and apparently you can run the kl4 in a "semi-regulation" sort of way, meaning you will achieve some level of constant output (im assuming very CLOSE to max output as a 2 cell configuration) with the sacrifice of runtime. Someone posted a runtime using one RCR123 at 18 minutes then dimming down after that, cant find it anymore but im certain it was 18 minutes posted. 

one thing to note is that with a single cell, you cant really get _full intensity_ since the kl4 was designed as a 2 cell configuration. needless to say 18 minutes of near 60 +/- lumens in a single cell configuration is definately a wow factor






mark


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## Led-Ed (Sep 4, 2006)

I had to bore out my L4 to use protected 17670 cells. Beware.


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## mikehill (Sep 4, 2006)

Due to all the posts about frying the LED whilst using 2 3v protected cells, I contacted AW who said it would be fine for me to continue using them. The beam certainly doesn't look any brighter than with primaries ... I do leave them a couple of hours off the charger before using them though ..
Mike.


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## marxs (Sep 4, 2006)

were you using the new L4 with the rounded body?

mark



Led-Ed said:


> I had to bore out my L4 to use protected 17670 cells. Beware.


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## Led-Ed (Sep 4, 2006)

Yes the latest body style.Batt. went in except for the last 3/8 of inch.


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## BigBaller (Sep 4, 2006)

Mikehill, whats the reason you let them sit? The way I heard it was its ok to use hot batteries off the charger but they need to cool before putting them on the charger.


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## mikehill (Sep 5, 2006)

I heard the voltage was above 3v when straight off the charger. I'll do some measurements later and report back.
Mike.


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## NikolaTesla (Sep 6, 2006)

L4 , L5 works great with 17670.





U2 takes the 18650 with no Mod.




Lasts forever on low settings.

I would not advise puting 7.2 volts in those lights.(2 CR123's)

Try 2 150s pilas in the L6. 7.2 volts is ok there

I have not bought a 123 for more than a year now.


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## Owen (Sep 7, 2006)

marxs said:


> i was doing a little digging last night and apparently you can run the kl4 in a "semi-regulation" sort of way, meaning you will achieve some level of constant output (im assuming very CLOSE to max output as a 2 cell configuration) with the sacrifice of runtime. Someone posted a runtime using one RCR123 at 18 minutes then dimming down after that, cant find it anymore but im certain it was 18 minutes posted.


I've gotten more like 30 minutes on a low Vf KL4(one of the original TW4s) from a 750mAh R123. 
A more typical T Vf is going to pull 1.2-1.3A, so I would expect more like 20 minutes.
The output is the same with R123, 17670, and 2x123. The difference is regulated runtime.

Weskix, since you've already got them, might as well try those 3.0V R123s in the L4. If you see a noticeable increase in brightness, the voltage is too high, and the light is going into direct drive. I've put that same KL4 mentioned above on 3x123 and 2xR123 momentarily "just to see". I wouldn't run that setup, since it was obviously overdriving that low Vf LuxV, and the KL4 gets plenty hot as is, but it sure was bright
Those lower voltage R123s may be fine in your light, though.


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## Weskix (Sep 7, 2006)

I Tried these so called protected 3.0 V RCR123's in my scorpion and the bulb lasted about 1/6 of a second. I decided i'll stick with the 17670 batteries from 
AW. They fit perfect in my L4 After peeling off the AW label.


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