# What is this ??????



## killforfood (Jun 6, 2007)

I've had this lantern for 20 years plus and would like to know some history like what it was primarily used for and what it might be worth?
















This lantern has all the original parts including switch, cotton wrapped wires and focus adjusting knob in back.
I viewed all 7,000+ lanterns on EBAY and the closest example that I could find was a 1920 Grether fire search lantern that looked like it may have even been made by the same company. 

"VINTAGE 1920 GRETHER FIRE EQUIPMENT SEARCH FLASH LIGHT / LANTERN. IT HAS NO BATTERY.IT WAS MADE BY THE GRETHER FIRE EQUIPMENT CO. DAYTON OHIO. IT IS IN GOOD SHAPE AND STANDS 9 1/2'' TALL AND 7 1/8'' WIDE. A COPY OF AN ADD I FOUND ON THIS PIECE SAID SPECIFY GRETHER HAND ELECTRIC SEARCHLIGHTS ON ALL NEW FIRE, POLICE, SALVAGE, AMBULANCEAND PUBLIC UTILITIES MOTOR APPARATUS. GREAT PIECE OF HISTORY. WOULD MAKE A GREAT ADDITION TO YOUR FIE EQUIPMENT COLLECTION. S/H $10.00 INSURANCE IS OPTIONAL "

http://cgi.ebay.com/1920-GRETHER-FI...ryZ39636QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I,m thinking that Harris probably made the the Grether lantern and added the brass tag with Grethers name on it?
Any Ideas?

Thanks, Joel.


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## matrixshaman (Jun 6, 2007)

Just guessing here - probably used on the railroads by signal men. On something like that if you want to sell it and get what it's worth then eBay is the place to put it up. Since you don't really have anything into it at this point I'd start with a low or no reserve auction. It's going to be worth what someone will pay for it there - in fact eBay IS used by many to determine what things are worth. The more rare it is the more likely it will get a nice price.


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## LukeA (Jun 7, 2007)

I personally think it would be cooler to keep the lantern than to sell it.


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## orionlion82 (Jun 7, 2007)

harris brothers/chicago house wrecking comes up here: 

http://www.chipublib.org/008subject/012special/tcc.html

might be a start. 

looks like a specially made thing for a special purpose. 

you could allso do a patent search for harris brothers.


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## Cydonia (Jun 9, 2007)

LukeA said:


> I personally think it would be cooler to keep the lantern than to sell it.



Yes I agree. Especially since he has had it 20 years already.
I would use the large battery compartment to store some of today's small lights in. Like a flashlight cookie jar


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## snakebite (Jun 11, 2007)

hmmmm
dayton ohio.
never heard of that co and i have lived here since the 60's
looks like it would survive nuclear war.


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## orionlion82 (Jun 11, 2007)

it was likely made in the 1890's or turn of the century as it looks to me. 

probably a true antiuque, and the fact there is so little information about it speaks to how rare it is. 

this is no doubt a valuable old object. 

im working on a patent search, because even i am curious.


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## orionlion82 (Jun 11, 2007)

ive got something here. 

a patent by none other than Mag insturment refrences a patent by harris from 1927. 

the harris patent is # 1644126 allso seen as 01644126

the patent appears to be drawings, but i cant see it because my browser dosnt do quicktime


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## orionlion82 (Jun 11, 2007)

This patent appears to be very important, because alot of other flashlight patents use it as a reference. this is as far as i can get with it i think.

as to weather it is the Model 6 or not, i have no idea.

allso found 1109415.


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## orionlion82 (Jun 11, 2007)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harris_Department_Store

they were west coast, but go back to turn of the century. maybe something?


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## orionlion82 (Jun 11, 2007)

oh, DUH! i JUST looked at the link. 

gerther fire equipment, dayton ohio. 

maybe harris was a rebrand and gerther was the OEM?

EDIT: this thing has GOT to be a rebranded greather lantern. 

http://www.google.com/search?q=gret...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

or perhaps greather ripped off a harris brothers design?


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## killforfood (Jun 13, 2007)

Orionlion,
Well it's hard to say who ripped off who but after digging a little deeper down the patent search that you started, I tend to believe that Grether is the original patent holder. While I have not yet found the original patent for the #6 model I did find that Grethers first name was william and he was a resident of Dayton Ohio who actively designed and marketed search and rescue lanterns for military and rescue services.
Heres an add for the Grether lantern that is nearly identical except for mine has the name Harris Bros. on top.





Also here is the patent for a military swivel top lantern that Grether designed.

http://vintage-reprints.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=14&products_id=22503

This Grether fire lantern recently sold on EBAY for $123.
It's identical to mine in every respect except mine has the Harris Bros. label on top. 











I have yet to find any information on the Harris Bros. and I'm curious as to how they marketed an identical lantern in the same town and time as grether. 

Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks, Joel.


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## killforfood (Jun 13, 2007)

orionlion82 said:


> ive got something here.
> 
> a patent by none other than Mag insturment refrences a patent by harris from 1927.
> 
> ...


 

Orionlion,
Could you post a link to the Harris patents.
Thanks, Joel.


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## orionlion82 (Jun 13, 2007)

well the grether patent data is clearly marked so easier to lookup. 

and here is the result of the search at uspto. (harris) http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...1644126&FIELD1=&co1=AND&TERM2=&FIELD2=&d=PALL

(hopefully the link works) 

the original is at the bottom and i would assume the ones above it are later patents using it as a reference.


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## orionlion82 (Jun 13, 2007)

thing is...the grether patent is 1913 and assuming that it is a true patent and not a fake patent, it makes you wonder about the 1927 harris patent. (remember, i cant view it so i havnt seen it) 

perhaps harris bought the patent or rights to build from grether?

or perhaps grether made a custom run as an OEM for another company?


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## killforfood (Jun 13, 2007)

Orionlion,
I was able to view the patent using Quicktime.
Looks like the beginnings of the every day flashlight of today.
Amazing how a good design lasts forever.
Anyway I don't think this is the right Harris as he resided in Florida.
Joel.


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## 65535 (Jun 14, 2007)

I'd say it has the makings for an interesting high powered mod, I'm thinking instant ON HID.


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## donn_ (Nov 19, 2007)

I just received this light today, and had a quick look at it. An interesting feature is the inscription _"safetee"_ on the lens. The Safetee Glass Company, of Philadelphia, was very well known at the time (pre-1920) for toughened glass which was used in gas-masks, windshields, goggles and lenses. The thing is built like a tank, and is a fitting host for a tough glass lens.


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## DaFABRICATA (Nov 19, 2007)

Mod it with 15 Seouls or Cree's!!!
Looks like a lot of room for batteries...




OR better yet HID!!!:thinking:


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## donn_ (Nov 19, 2007)

I started a thread in Homemade and Modified Lights, asking for ideas.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2232660#post2232660


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## captain smiley (Nov 27, 2008)

I found the patent for the number six lantern, this lantern was not invented by harris as once thought but by a man named william grether thus the "Grether" name seen on some of these, it is also interesting to note that there is another lamp patented by grether that used an almost identical body to the number sis but has a handle and switch on the back as well as having a handle on the front, another thing which intrests me is that he was trying to create a lantern that would be beautiful, it looks like he accomplished it, I have many times examined the elegant lines of some of these lamps and admired them as a piece of art, check out his other patents, I own 4 variations of the six model and 2 of this model: 

http://www.google.com/patents?id=Z_...&as_miny_is=1905&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=1920 , Id like to collect all the grethers if I can find them.

the number six: http://www.google.com/patents?id=dY...&as_miny_is=1905&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=1920

other grether patents: http://www.google.com/patents?q=gre...&as_miny_is=1905&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=1920


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## captain smiley (Nov 29, 2008)

In reading some of mr. grether's patents it becomes clear that he was attempting to build the best lantern possible for his day, he imagines them being used to bash in windows and the like. There are some features in his lanterns I don't think ever made it in to production, look at some of his "safety" bulb holding mechanisims intended to break the circut and avoid sparks so as not to ignite gasses (It seems to me that this device would have produced the opposite effect)

Another important thing to note is that grether specified that white lead putty be used to seal the reflector to the body, and a copper and aspestose gasket between the lens and reflector, while I haven't found any of this white lead putty in any of my examples (probably crumbled and fell away over the last 90 years or so) these aspestose gaskets are most often still with the lamp and should be handled with caution if not simply thrown away.

It is wise to have the insides sandblasted out, these lamps almost always have battery acid caked inside them, but not just for that but any remaining lead putty. I had whole the body of one of mine blasted and it came out with an awesome finish that I decided to leave (before I planned to paint it) although the surface does catch dirt a little easier, a simple light scrubbing with a (preferably) brass fine wire brush will bring out a little more shine than when it was freshly blasted and it will get rid of hand prints and make the alluminum look nice again.


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