# How much MCP does it take to reach some clouds?



## Beaver_2 (Sep 26, 2006)

Hi, I'm curious to know how many MCP does it take for a light to light up some clouds at night? 
Thanks, -Beaver 2


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## Bright Scouter (Sep 26, 2006)

I think it has a lot more to do with the beam angle of the light than it does candlepower. It has been discussed on here many times that cp can be very misleading. I have some fairly low power lights that can reach some low clouds, only because they have an extremely tight beam. So tight, I rarely use the light. But for diving, it is pretty good.


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## monkeyboy (Oct 5, 2006)

Bright Scouter said:


> I think it has a lot more to do with the beam angle of the light than it does candlepower.


 
candlepower is a measure of beam intensity not overall output.


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## Bright Scouter (Oct 5, 2006)

I agree and I stand corrected and take back my answer.

Now, having said that and knowing what you know about light, physics, and candlepower ratings,,,

What is the answer to the original question?


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## Whisper (Oct 15, 2006)

Hello Bright Scouter, which of the lights that you own (or others) have the tightest beam?


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## Slaro (Oct 22, 2006)

There are a lot of variables in your stated question. So, there is no specific answer to that question as stated above.



Beaver_2 said:


> Hi, I'm curious to know how many MCP does it take for a light to light up some clouds at night?
> Thanks, -Beaver 2


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## NAW (Oct 22, 2006)

Slaro said:


> There are a lot of variables in your stated question. So, there is no specific answer to that question as stated above.


 
I agree with Slaro.

There are numerous things that can affect the answer to this question that doesn't even have to do with flashlights.

For ex, the altitude of the clouds, and the weather (foggy, cloudy, etc)

Although I do think the Harbor Freight HID is probably one of the best candidates for throw.


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## Aaron1100us (Oct 26, 2006)

Depends on the clouds. Some Cumulus and Stratus clouds are around or under 6500 feet. I can hit those types of clouds with my AE 24w HID Flashlight. Just got a 15 million CP Thor, haven't had a chance to try with low altitude clouds yet, guessing that will do pretty well also. As long as your light is a pretty decent throw monster, you should be able to hit low altitude clouds. A Maxabeam or other short arc type spot light with narrow beam would be the easiest as those have extremely impressive throw.


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## Bright Scouter (Oct 26, 2006)

Whisper said:


> Hello Bright Scouter, which of the lights that you own (or others) have the tightest beam?



The light that I own that comes to mind is a Pelican Sabrelite. It runs on 2c batteries and has a focused xenon lamp. It is the the brightest, but it is the tightest beam I own. I rarely use it because of that. But there are many lights that have focusing optics that are tight also. Too tight for me to feel they are useful. Some Inovas come to mind.


I guess what I was trying to get at in my first post was what most everyone else has said. There are just too many variables to answer the original question. And I was trying to get across the point that you can't just say this light is better at hitting clouds than this one because it is rated by the manufacturer as having xxxxxxx more candlepower. So what?! 

But after Monkeyboy said I was wrong, I was very curious to see him answer the original question.


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## Lightmania (Oct 26, 2006)

in addition to the original question, try this angle: what light you have that did touch a cloud? 

Lightmania


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## ackbar (Oct 26, 2006)

Someone call up batman and find out


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## windstrings (Oct 29, 2006)

I think alot of these parameters are for lights that are "barely" making it... then angle etc will make a difference, but if the light is bright and the clouds are low, you can hit them all from any angle.

I was playing with my Xeray 50W the other day and I could hit clouds straight over me as well as into the distance almost to horizon level.

The clouds were pretty low and my light was pretty bright!...
I need to find me a batman laser cutout to put over my lens! 

Especially for Halloween....


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## Lightmania (Oct 29, 2006)

here you go.  

(right click, save as, open with image editor, resize as needed, print, use as template for metal sheet or whatever; please report results here at CPF!  )

Lightmania


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## nutz_about_lights (Oct 29, 2006)

Pray tell me what would happen to that piece of paper stuck to the lens of the HID that burns holes in black trash bags 3 feet away...


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## windstrings (Oct 29, 2006)

ey


nutz_about_lights said:


> Pray tell me what would happen to that piece of paper stuck to the lens of the HID that burns holes in black trash bags 3 feet away...



Hey Thanks..I'll definately save that for some fun!....

Paper will start smoking in 5 seconds 1 foot away... I think I'll have to use metal or something else.

Trying to decide if it will look better on clouds to have the light shine through the middle "It would be brighter!", or have the bat be a shadow?

Decisions, decisions... life is just too hard sometimes! 

Of course when I upgrade to 75 watts... my BB will have to be called the Bat Beam, instead of the Barn Burner!

Hey, wouldn't it be fun to get some pics!...We don't get clouds here too ofter, but I'll be ready when they come... I've been thinking.. I think the bat in shadow will look more in vogue, don't you think?


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## Lightmania (Oct 29, 2006)

lol, windstrings, try both. 

Lightmania


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## postalguy (Oct 30, 2006)

I've tried a dozen times and only once were the clouds low enough (plus it was drizzling) that I could see a faint image from my Striker VG.


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## windstrings (Oct 30, 2006)

Well bad news guys... I went to all the trouble to match my Xerays reflector .... inside dia of 4.25... so I made batman and cut him out, but to no avail... the image does not even show at 100 yards... let alone the clouds.

My Xeray was able to hit the clouds just find on total wide angle, but it still didn't work.... too much light in a small area I suppose.....
Or maybe you need one of those really big lights like they use at the carnival?

Or maybe the batman light never happened at all.... maybe it was just for TV.

If someone else wants to play with it... here you go.


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## Lightmania (Oct 30, 2006)

mm, I wondered why it didn't worked... I had high hopes for it, lol. 

Hey, something for Mythbuster to figure out? 

Lightmania


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## windstrings (Oct 30, 2006)

It has something to do with the angle of the light coming out... I bet if you take any of your bright lights and put your finger in front of them, they will not make a shadow on the fence, house, barn or whatever 100 yards away... it only slightly diminishes the light.

I'm assuming you would need something with more of a linear light beam?

Just thinking... a projector lens works well, you can make funny animals etc like crazy. But that is a lens that spreads the light outward.... with flashlights, there is no lense, or if there is, its designed to keep the light in a focus rather than beamed out.

It may have something to do with the distance from the light too?
Even with a projector, if you put the object too close to the light source it still won't work, but when you hold it out at a distance, the light is more linear there.

Maybe you would have to make a batman say like 5 ft in diameter and be able to hold it high enough where the beam is 5 foot across in diameter... which would be quite high......

If anyone figures out the majic solution.. let me know....

meanwhile Ill have to do some more playing around...I bet if a plane flew by and got between you and the cloud, it would make a nice sillouette then!


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## windstrings (Oct 30, 2006)

ok.. I sat the light up and shined in on my white vinyl fence about 100 yards away and sure enough.. when you get away from the light, it becomes easier to make shadows.
I can make hand shadows really well on the fence when I'm at least 30 ft. from the light source, when I get to about 15 feet they get too fuzzy, except on the edges in the spill area.

Yet I tried to hit the clouds and used objects such as tree tips and chimney tips to see if a shadow would be cast... it that case the distance is too far and again the contrast is too dispersed.

But it does seem possible if someone sat up the right distances on everything and the light was bright enough.... it just may not be easily done with this small of a reflector... I'm guessing the bigger the reflector, the easier. Having a fuzzy cloud doesn't help either.. it needs to be one that reflects well.

Maybe one about 3 foot across like the carnival show lights that shine up in the air would work..... I don't happen to have one handy to try.. oh well!


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## Lightmania (Oct 30, 2006)

lol

well, I went and printed out a paper version, cut it out and tried it on my 3D LED Mag. Same thing. Where the shadow is, there's a hotspot right where the batman is. 

I feared we've hijacked this post. Wanna start up a new thread on this topic? 

Lightmania


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## windstrings (Oct 31, 2006)

We can if the author wants us too.. but I figured we were on topic... its all about how to hit the clouds..... we are just doing more than hitting it now, we are trying to portray an image on them!

I was thinking as I feel asleep last night.. "sick isn't it?" :laughing:

And I was thinking about the technicals of a transparancy projector.

First you start off with an image close to the light source, thats shined through a fresnel lense to reduce it down to around 4 X 4 to go through another lens and a mirror to throw it forward... of course we dont' need the mirror part since we are shooting up.

But the tricky part is that based on "how far away" the canvas is "in our case the clouds" determines how far away the lens needs to be away from the fresnel lens to get adequate focus.

That setup is obviously for very close projections compared to the clouds, but the idea is the same.

As far as focal points, lenses etc....what we are trying to do is basically what a telescope does except in reverse.

Oh well, I don't suppose this is a practicle project to conquer... Esp in time for Halloween.

I guess I'll be stuck playing with my electronic varmit caller!


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## Bright Scouter (Oct 31, 2006)

You know they have projectors for holidays now to shine different objects on your house or garage. I have seen them under $30 this year. It might be worth getting one of those to try to work with the lens they have in that in combination with a much brighter light. Might make for some interesting experiments.


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## windstrings (Oct 31, 2006)

Bright Scouter said:


> You know they have projectors for holidays now to shine different objects on your house or garage. I have seen them under $30 this year. It might be worth getting one of those to try to work with the lens they have in that in combination with a much brighter light. Might make for some interesting experiments.



I bet you would have to really monkey with it... because if it shines a relatively big picture on your house, it would be really big by the time it got to the clouds and would take tremendous lumens to make it work.


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## Ra (Nov 5, 2006)

Clouds can be anywhere between ground level to 8 miles up, so it greatly depends on the hight of the clouds.

With Maxablaster I can visibly reach clouds close to 6 miles away, with Maxabeam close to 3 miles and with my 65watt HID-Thor up to one mile.

But how powerfull the light, there always are clouds that are to far away !!

Indeed the candlepower output determines the throw of a light.
Remember that those halogen spotlights with claims up to 15 million cp reach only about 100,000-250,000cp with only a few up to 400,000cp (Cyclops Platinum Thor output) A 5mw green laserpointer has more cp-output !!

Thats the difference between cp's and lumens: High lumens output does not nesesseraly mean high cp-output!

Example: Maxabeam: 1200 lumens 6,000,000cp... Fit it with a 35watt HID: 3200 lumens 750,000cp !

Cp is all about surface brightness of the source, and here the short-arcs like Maxabeam and Megaray are the king(s)

HID (automotive) is the best overall solution if you want decent throw with high lumens output. Although I'm expecting a led-revolution in a few years...


Regards,

Ra.


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