# Fenix L2D CE



## sunofzeus (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm new to the flashlight world and this forum, but I just purchased a Fenix L2D CE from fenixstore.com and was wondering what kind of batteries would give this the best output. Will rechargeable lithiums work? If so what size? Thank you.


----------



## WildChild (Jan 22, 2007)

Rechargeable lithium only in L1D CE. With two of them the voltage will fry the flashlight! I think the best is from NiMH rechargeable. Almost the same performance as primary lithium batteries (Energizer Lithium) but rechargeable. Performance with Alkaline should be good but not on Turbo mode. Only on low or medium.


----------



## speederino (Jan 22, 2007)

Best bang for the buck would be NIMH rechargeables. Lithium primary AA's (such as the engergizer e2 lithium) will provide the longest runtime but are pricey. AA NIMH's generally provide 60-80% the runtimes of AA lithium primaries, but with a similarly low internal resistance, provide the same brightness...and obviously, can be recharged (free lumens!!). Alkalines, on the other hand, have a high internal resistance and generate lots of heat instead of lots of light under high loads. Even so, the L2D-CE should provide very respectable runtimes with alkies on the lower output levels.


----------



## TORCH_BOY (Jan 22, 2007)

Definately a good set of NIMH rechargeable, they will pay for themselves in no time


----------



## jayhackett03 (Jan 22, 2007)

this light only puts out 55 lumens? wtf? the P1D CE puts out over 100 lumens doesn't it? why can't they make a really bright cree L2? and why did they use the ugly body instead of the L2P body?


----------



## curtis22 (Jan 22, 2007)

jayhackett03 said:


> this light only puts out 55 lumens?



That is an incorrect number. The web site needs correcting.


----------



## sunofzeus (Jan 22, 2007)

Looks like NIMH rechargeables are the way to go. Thanks for the help.


----------



## jayhackett03 (Jan 22, 2007)

curtis22 said:


> That is an incorrect number. The web site needs correcting.


 
whats the correct output numbers?


----------



## frankbyerswat (Jan 22, 2007)

2*AA NiMH is OK


----------



## curtis22 (Jan 22, 2007)

The Fenix L2D CE is a digitally-controlled, constant-current multilevel flashlight. It has six levels of output, which not only allows the user to select the best compromise between brightness and runtime for any given task, but also has the ability to aid in an emergency. The L1D CE does all this and still retains a very compact size. If you’re looking for solid reliability, digitally regulated brightness, and compact size, this Fenix is for you.

Changing modes: fully press to switch on, turn the bezel to select the General Mode or the Turbo Mode. A soft-press anytime while the light is on will change the brightness levels within the current mode.


* Water-resistant
* Cree 7090 XR-E LED
* Push-button tail cap switch
* Two modes by rotating the bezel
* Turbo Mode: 135 lumens -> Strobe
* General Mode: 9 lumens -> 40 lumens -> 80 lumens -> SOS
* Runtimes: 2.4hrs @ 135lm, 4hrs @ 80lm, 10.5hrs @ 40lm, 55hrs @ 9lm
* Nylon Holster, Lanyard, 2 spare O-rings and switch cap included
* Two 1.2V - 1.5V AA (Alkaline, Ni-MH, Lithium) batteries (not included)
* Aircraft-grade aluminum with hard anodized finish
* Toughened ultra clear glass lens with AR coating
* Digitally Regulated for Constant Brightness
* 56-gram weight (excluding batteries)
* Dimensions: 147mm x 21mm Diam.


----------



## CodeOfLight (Jan 22, 2007)

What is the lumen count for an A19 cree?


----------



## lexina (Jan 22, 2007)

sunofzeus said:


> I'm new to the flashlight world and this forum, but I just purchased a Fenix L2D CE from fenixstore.com and was wondering what kind of batteries would give this the best output. Will rechargeable lithiums work? If so what size? Thank you.


 
Did you get a L2D CE (didn't know this was available yet) or L2T? The site needs updating:
http://fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=195

The heading says L2D CE but the photo and the specs (55 Lumens) are those of the L2T.


----------



## curtis22 (Jan 22, 2007)

lexina said:


> Did you get a L2D CE (didn't know this was available yet) or L2T? The site needs updating:
> http://fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=195
> 
> The heading says L2D CE but the photo and the specs (55 Lumens) are those of the L2T.



The web site hasn't beenfully updated yet. Since it is listed as a new product, and the web page says "This product will be in stock on Friday 26 January, 2007." , it's pretty safe to assume this is the L2D CE.


----------



## OCEANBEAMER (Jan 22, 2007)

curtis22 said:


> The web site hasn't beenfully updated yet. Since it is listed as a new product, and the web page says "This product will be in stock on Friday 26 January, 2007." , it's pretty safe to assume this is the L2D CE.


 I ordered 1 L2D CE today and emailed the fenix store with this very question....they took my order and Gary on David Chow's staff emailed me back .."We know there are errors on our site and we are working to iron them out..these are the cree lights and we are taking preorders and will have the lights in stock for shipping next week" $50.83 with the cpf 5% discount.


----------



## TomasCoSauce (Jan 23, 2007)

I just ordered two of them...one for me, the other as a present! Woo!

This had better be lightyears ahead of the MiniMaglite 3W LED.


----------



## zigziggityzoo (Jan 23, 2007)

I wonder what the odds are for them releasing the L2D-CE body as a spare part...

I ordered the L1D-CE, and wouldn't mind having the L2D-CE body to use on occasion, as they use the same head.


----------



## InfidelCastro (Jan 23, 2007)

CodeOfLight said:


> What is the lumen count for an A19 cree?





I don't know how many milliamps this new Cree one is running, but judgeing by the old L2T it is probably around 900mA so my guess is about the same.

We will see when the reviews come in though. Maybe it is running at much less mA, like 450ma. I hope not!!!


----------



## maverick215 (Jan 23, 2007)

do we have word yet if these are compatible with the 123 tube?


----------



## fenix_fan (Jan 23, 2007)

How disappointing that the new L2D's design
is based on the L2T, not the elegant, classic 
lines of the original L2P.


----------



## cannesahs (Jan 23, 2007)

fenix_fan said:


> How disappointing that the new L2D's design
> is based on the L2T, not the elegant, classic
> lines of the original L2P.



What is your source for this information? I haven't seen any pics yet. Fenix-Store's information is about L2T.

PS. I hope it's L2T desing. I like it a lot more, cause it's better grip.


----------



## PAB (Jan 23, 2007)

jayhackett03 said:


> this light only puts out 55 lumens? wtf? the P1D CE puts out over 100 lumens doesn't it? why can't they make a really bright cree L2? and why did they use the ugly body instead of the L2P body?



4sevens tends to use previous entries as a template for new ones. Basically, he just copied the L2T entry and is in the process of changing the details. Since he's still on vacation, he might not get to it for a bit.

Edit: Sorry, I meant "business trip" of course. Gone until the 28th is says.


----------



## fenix_fan (Jan 23, 2007)

cannesahs said:


> What is your source for this information? I haven't seen any pics yet. Fenix-Store's information is about L2T.
> 
> PS. I hope it's L2T desing. I like it a lot more, cause it's better grip.




I hope you are right and I'm wrong !
Trawling around I have gained this
impression....


----------



## LowTEC (Jan 23, 2007)

maverick215 said:


> do we have word yet if these are compatible with the 123 tube?



It has been mentioned, the answer is a big NO, Fenix purposely designed the new body so it can't be backward compatible (L1T nor 123 body), so they can milk our wallet deeper


----------



## x2x3x2 (Jan 23, 2007)

All the lights will be probably be moving on the the SSC P4 soon, after that beamshot of the modded Huntlight FT-01.


----------



## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 23, 2007)

LowTEC said:


> It has been mentioned, the answer is a big NO, Fenix purposely designed the new body so it can't be backward compatible (L1T nor 123 body), so they can milk our wallet deeper



How are they milking anyone? They don't make a 123 body, that was 3rd party.


----------



## patycake57 (Jan 23, 2007)

LowTEC said:


> It has been mentioned, the answer is a big NO, Fenix purposely designed the new body so it can't be backward compatible (L1T nor 123 body), so they can milk our wallet deeper



Unless you have a "deep throat" source within Fenix, I think you should seperate opinions from fact. It is true via the email quoted from Fenix that the LxD and LxT bodies are not compatible. It may be true that this was designed to milk our wallets. But there are other possibilities, such as a new reflector for the CRE, and new electronics. I suspect that one or both of these issues were involved in the P1 to P1D development, and the L1D series as well.

The Lumapower M1 has been suggested as a model light in regards to being able to change out the led, which would be a nice feature. The price: low 30s, for a reflector, and LED assembly. The head is substantially bigger on an M1 (by pictures) than any of the Fenix lights, and may make adjustments in the reflector etc, easier. Also, they didn't change the electronics, and it is a one stage light. A second stage will be added by tailcap, which has historically been inefficient due to the use of a resistor. Is this "much more value" than a 50 dollar LxD CE? It's up to each individual to decide. Choice is good.


----------



## TCW 60 (Jan 23, 2007)

maverick215 said:


> do we have word yet if these are compatible with the 123 tube?



The 123 tube was useless to me, because I can only use primaries.


----------



## maverick215 (Jan 23, 2007)

TCW 60 said:


> The 123 tube was useless to me, because I can only use primaries.


Amazing answer to my question!!!! Clearly you are the only one who has and will ever purchase a fenix AA light............
LowTEC
Thanks for the answer. As someone who has a 'stock' of 123's I was hoping to have that added flexibility. Here's to hoping someone steps up to fill in this void.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Jan 23, 2007)

Alkalines are very weak in just about every high power lights, however if the Fenix light is "FULLY REGULATED" as many claims, it should provided the same output for the entire life of battery, albeit the battery wouldn't last too long simply because alkaline can't handle th e heavy load for a long time.


----------



## LowTEC (Jan 23, 2007)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> How are they milking anyone? They don't make a 123 body, that was 3rd party.



If you want to use a single AA for convenience or 2 AA for longer runtime, you would need to purchase 2 seperate lights instead of using your exsisting L1T/L2T body, while the bezel funtion would be the same Low/Hi - General/Turbo.


----------



## outofgum (Jan 23, 2007)

Unfortunate timing on the vacation. Heh. Anyone know if he will be back by the estimated (or is it confirmed?) ship date?


----------



## ruralott (Jan 23, 2007)

outofgum said:


> Unfortunate timing on the vacation. Heh. Anyone know if he will be back by the estimated (or is it confirmed?) ship date?


On his Web site, he says he's out until Jan 28.


----------



## InfidelCastro (Jan 23, 2007)

cannesahs said:


> What is your source for this information? I haven't seen any pics yet. Fenix-Store's information is about L2T.
> 
> PS. I hope it's L2T desing. I like it a lot more, cause it's better grip.





Totally. THe L2P's 'grip' was terrible. And the body was too fat.


L2T is much better.


----------



## Lobo (Jan 23, 2007)

+1 on the L2T body looking better than the L2P.


----------



## coppertrail (Jan 23, 2007)

Time to do a few refresh cycles on the 2700 mAh AA cells.  Will the Eneloop AAA work well in the L0D CE? I don't have any 1000 mAh AAA cells.


----------



## InfidelCastro (Jan 23, 2007)

My Sony and Energizer 2500's may get some use again. I think they've been in the freezer since November.


----------



## Lobo (Jan 23, 2007)

InfidelCastro said:


> My Sony and Energizer 2500's may get some use again. I think they've been in the freezer since November.


 
Total noobquestion here, but why do you store them in the freezer?


----------



## PAB (Jan 23, 2007)

Lobo said:


> Total noobquestion here, but why do you store them in the freezer?


Batteries retain their charge longer when in cold storage.


----------



## Lobo (Jan 23, 2007)

But does it increase the the total life? Don't really see much point in retaining the charge in a rechargable, just recharge before the next time you use it?:huh2: 

Sorry for the thread jacking.


----------



## WildChild (Jan 23, 2007)

InfidelCastro said:


> Totally. THe L2P's 'grip' was terrible. And the body was too fat.
> 
> 
> L2T is much better.



I prefer the L2T body here too!


----------



## PAB (Jan 23, 2007)

Lobo said:


> But does it increase the the total life? Don't really see much point in retaining the charge in a rechargable, just recharge before the next time you use it?:huh2:
> 
> Sorry for the thread jacking.


Not everyone has the time to recharge batteries before use. Especially in, say, a power outage. So they get in the habit of putting batteries in cold storage. Maybe with some alkaline batteries, or mabye not.


----------



## PAB (Jan 23, 2007)

I like the L2T body better too. On the other hand, I like the substantial fell of the L1T also. A light that is too small is not comfortable to hold. Plus it can take a heck of a beating.


----------



## TORCH_BOY (Jan 23, 2007)

Just placed an order for a L2D CE, I have already grown to like the feel of the L2T


----------



## gadgetnerd (Jan 23, 2007)

TORCH_BOY said:


> Just placed an order for a L2D CE, I have already grown to like the feel of the L2T


Who'd you put the order with, torchworld by any chance? He's saying "sold out" on the L0D CE, L1D CE and L2D CE, which I just assume means "not in stock yet".


----------



## zigziggityzoo (Jan 23, 2007)

Most people are ordering direct from fenix-store.com from the sound of it.


----------



## coppertrail (Jan 23, 2007)

I pre-ordered both the L0D CE and L2D CE from Fenix-Store. The site says they'll be in stock on Jan. 26th.

I emailed Fenix asking for the input voltages of these lights. They responded with the following information:

L0D CE: .8V - 3.6V
L2D CD: .8V - 4.0V


----------



## paulr (Jan 23, 2007)

I've always heard batteries should be stored in the fridge, but above freezing temperature.


----------



## coppertrail (Jan 23, 2007)

From the Duracell NiMH Cell Information PDF document:

"The recommended temperature range for
long term storage of nickel-metal hydride batteries is
10°C to 30°C (50°F to 86°F)."

Thus, I store my cells in the refrigerator.


----------



## curtis22 (Jan 23, 2007)

coppertrail said:


> From the Duracell NiMH Cell Information PDF document:
> 
> "The recommended temperature range for
> long term storage of nickel-metal hydride batteries is
> ...



My refrigerator doesn't get that warm.


----------



## coppertrail (Jan 23, 2007)

This is their recommended temperature range, mine doesn't get this warm either. Based on this information, I choose not to freeze them. I'm not saying that freezing them will harm the cells, I just choose to stay "close" to their recommendations.


----------



## adnj (Jan 23, 2007)

coppertrail said:


> From the Duracell NiMH Cell Information PDF document:
> 
> "The recommended temperature range for
> long term storage of nickel-metal hydride batteries is
> ...


 
The typical, new refrigerator is calibrated to 37 deg F; the freezer is at 0 (ZERO) deg F

The 50 to 86 deg F is room temp. Store them on a shelf in the basement (average is 64 to 74 degrees year round).


----------



## curtis22 (Jan 23, 2007)

If your refrigerator is above 50 F you might want to get it checked.


----------



## CeilingDweller (Jan 23, 2007)

1 L2D-CE ordered!  Hope I enjoy it as much as I have my L2T...And way, way, way, more than my Mag 3aa led. I held out on the P1D-CE in hopes of this model - Though I admit I was almost to the point of giving in and I had resigned myself to accepting the clickie-less, medium-high-low-strobe-sos set up of it and figured the L2D-CE would be the same. I don't know about anyone else but for $50 I think this general and turbo mode set up is pure genius! It'll be perfect for my application. Thanks 4sevens!


----------



## Schizoid1 (Jan 23, 2007)

I was planning on getting the L2D CE, but after carrying around an Inova X1 for a week, I decided I liked the 1xAA size and would carry the L1D CE a lot more. I'm betting someone will offer a nice 2xAA tube option for when you want a little more, assuming that's possible.


----------



## InfidelCastro (Jan 23, 2007)

Lobo said:


> Total noobquestion here, but why do you store them in the freezer?




After charging, if I'm not going to use them for awhile I put NIMH batteries in the freezer because they retain their charge like eneloops or primaries. The freezer slows down the battery chemistry. When I'm going to use the batteries, I take them out of the freezer and try to let them achieve room temperature before use for best performance and to keep moisture from forming on the light.


Back on the subject of the L2P and L2T body. It seems like most people do prefer the L2T body as I do. Some people who buy them for reasons other than actually using them seem to like the L2P body style. I've had the experience of using both styles at work and the L2T style is much, much better in actual usage.


----------



## GrnXnham (Jan 23, 2007)

PAB said:


> Batteries retain their charge longer when in cold storage.



Consumer Reports tested this theory a while back. They found that this is, in fact, a myth. 

Batteries do not retain their charge longer when in cold storage. There is no need to put them in the freezer.


----------



## InfidelCastro (Jan 24, 2007)

double post


----------



## InfidelCastro (Jan 24, 2007)

GrnXnham said:


> Consumer Reports tested this theory a while back. They found that this is, in fact, a myth.
> 
> Batteries do not retain their charge longer when in cold storage. There is no need to put them in the freezer.




This is probably the case with alkaline primaries. Or at least, it probably makes so little of a difference, that it's not worth bothering with. I don't know about alkaline rechargeables.

But this is *definately* not the case with NIMH rechargeables. To prove this point further, even though it's well known, I just removed two 2500mA Sony NIMH AA batteries and two Energizer NIMH AA batteries from the freezer that were charged up and put away.

They have been in there since at least November, possibly even since before Halloween. The voltage readings were 1.39V for the Sony's and 1.37V for the Energizers. I'm pretty sure they were removed from the freezer and thawed to room temperature once during that period to clean the freezer out. You would not see those readings from NIMH AA batteries that had been laying around a dresser drawer for several months. My freezer is not even that cold, the fridge is a cheapy with a thin plastic spacer between it and the fridge part.


----------



## coppertrail (Jan 24, 2007)

InfidelCastro said:


> This is probably the case with alkaline primaries. Or at least, it probably makes so little of a difference, that it's not worth bothering with. I don't know about alkaline rechargeables.
> 
> But this is *definately* not the case with NIMH rechargeables. To prove this point further, even though it's well known, I just removed two 2500mA Sony NIMH AA batteries and two Energizer NIMH AA batteries from the freezer that were charged up and put away.
> 
> They have been in there since at least November, possibly even since before Halloween. The voltage readings were 1.39V for the Sony's and 1.37V for the Energizers. I'm pretty sure they were removed from the freezer and thawed to room temperature once during that period to clean the freezer out. You would not see those readings from NIMH AA batteries that had been laying around a dresser drawer for several months. My freezer is not even that cold, the fridge is a cheapy with a thin plastic spacer between it and the fridge part.


 +1


----------



## Zest (Jan 24, 2007)

Sorry if this was already posted and I missed it but:
L2D-CE + 14500's = 7.2v input = bad things, correct?

edit-just realized li-ions would gain nothing in this light over nimh's so it would be doubly dumb.


----------



## PAB (Jan 24, 2007)

coppertrail said:


> +1


I did a quick look up for the info on batteries and freezing:
*Alkaline batteries* stored at "room temperature" self discharge at a rate of less than two percent per year. So normally refrigerating or freezing them will only help maintain their charge by a tiny amount. Hardly worth the effort of chilling them. However, if alkaline batteries are stored at higher temperatures they will start to lose capacity much quicker. At 85 degrees F they only lose about 5% per year, but at 100 degrees they lose 25% per year. So if you live in a very hot climate or are storing your batteries in a very hot location, it may be worthwhile for you to store your alkaline batteries in a refrigerator instead.

*NiMH and NiCd batteries* self discharge at a MUCH faster rate than alkaline batteries. In fact, at "room temperature" (about 70 degrees F) NiMH and NiCD batteries will self discharge a few percent PER DAY. Storing them at lower temperatures will slow their self discharge rate dramatically. NiMH batteries stored at freezing will retain over 90% of their charge for full month. So it might make sense to store them in a freezer. If you do, it's best to bring them back to room temperature before using them. Even if you don't freeze your NiMH batteries after charging them, you should store them in a cool place to minimize their self discharge.


----------



## InfidelCastro (Jan 24, 2007)

I didn't realize nickel cadmium self discharge was as bad as NIMH???

I always thought it was slightly better in this way.


----------



## PAB (Jan 24, 2007)

InfidelCastro said:


> I didn't realize nickel cadmium self discharge was as bad as NIMH???
> 
> I always thought it was slightly better in this way.


NiCad is actually about half that of NiMH. Only about 20% compared to about 40% per month depending on temperature of course.


----------



## Handlobraesing (Jan 24, 2007)

coppertrail said:


> I pre-ordered both the L0D CE and L2D CE from Fenix-Store. The site says they'll be in stock on Jan. 26th.
> 
> I emailed Fenix asking for the input voltages of these lights. They responded with the following information:
> 
> ...




What they fail to address is that it is not fully regulated within the specified range. Hook it up to a programmable regulated power supply and cycle it back and forth between terminal voltage (voltage measured at flashlight end) of 0.800 v and 4.000v and tell me it doesn't flicker.


----------



## CeilingDweller (Jan 24, 2007)

PAB said:


> I like the L2T body better too. On the other hand, I like the substantial fell of the L1T also. A light that is too small is not comfortable to hold. Plus it can take a heck of a beating.


 
I also agree. That's what kept me from buying a P1D-CE. Though I like the CR123 configuration on my L2T for EDC, but for working with a light a small light is useless to me. So I am more interested in having and testing the Cree at work...Hopefully a CR123/RCR123 adapter will become widely available soon...If not might have to buy a P1D-CE anyways. Or maybe wait for something from Surefire...ok I'm getting too excited....


----------



## chevrofreak (Jan 25, 2007)

Handlobraesing said:


> What they fail to address is that it is not fully regulated within the specified range. Hook it up to a programmable regulated power supply and cycle it back and forth between terminal voltage (voltage measured at flashlight end) of 0.800 v and 4.000v and tell me it doesn't flicker.




Are you sure about that? The P1D CE can regulate a 4.2v li-Ion on high, and Fenix' previous regulated lights have also been able to regulate from as low as about 2v. You'll probably lose medium and low with a Li-Ion, but high should work just fine.


----------



## jayhackett03 (Jan 25, 2007)

curtis22 said:


> * Turbo Mode: 135 lumens -> Strobe


 

curtis 22,

you say the L2D CE can output 135 lumens, while fenixstore says it can output only 90 lumens. i'm confused.


----------



## cannesahs (Jan 25, 2007)

jayhackett03 said:


> curtis 22,
> 
> you say the L2D CE can output 135 lumens, while fenixstore says it can output only 90 lumens. i'm confused.



Fenixstore's whole information part at bottom of L2D CE -page is same as in L1D CE page. copypaste. Most information is same and none have had time to correct it maybe?


----------



## Handlobraesing (Jan 25, 2007)

chevrofreak said:


> Are you sure about that? The P1D CE can regulate a 4.2v li-Ion on high, and Fenix' previous regulated lights have also been able to regulate from as low as about 2v. You'll probably lose medium and low with a Li-Ion, but high should work just fine.



Fairly, from what I hear. Are you certain it does not change measurably from 0.8v to 4.0v in ALL modes under ordinary dv/dt that is possible under battery operation? (i.e. not 0.8v to 4.0v in 5mS, but sloping from 0.8v to 4.0v over 2 seconds and back)


----------



## OCEANBEAMER (Jan 25, 2007)

cannesahs said:


> Fenixstore's whole information part at bottom of L2D CE -page is same as in L1D CE page. copypaste. Most information is same and none have had time to correct it maybe?


 See post#10 from curtis22 in this thread for clarification of these issues. fenix is working on these issues...hurry back david.


----------



## Ty_Bower (Feb 2, 2007)

I'm not particularly concerned whether the L2D CE is actually 135 lumens, or 110, or only 90. Is the L2D CE actually brighter than the L1D CE? Let's assume both are running on alkaline cells, or both are running on NiMH cells.

Are the L2D CE lights shipping today? I think I just read a post from someone who suggested he had one already...


----------



## Xygen (Feb 3, 2007)

Ty_Bower said:


> I'm not particularly concerned whether the L2D CE is actually 135 lumens, or 110, or only 90. Is the L2D CE actually brighter than the L1D CE? Let's assume both are running on alkaline cells, or both are running on NiMH cells.
> Are the L2D CE lights shipping today? I think I just read a post from someone who suggested he had one already...


I have confirmation from 4sevens that the L2D-CE has been shipped yesterday.
I'm sure it will be brighter!


----------



## DoubleDutch (Feb 3, 2007)

It's off topic, but one more word of advice to clear up storage of NiMh's please:

When you say lower temperatures, does this mean *fridge* temp (some 6 degrees C), or *freezer* temp (minus 18 degrees C)? 
(Sorry, I don't do Fahrenheit




).

Kees


----------



## yellow (Feb 3, 2007)

*lower levels and Li-Ion*

7777 mentionned in the larger tread, that there will be NO low levels when input voltage is above 3.5 Volts
(if I got him right)


----------



## No.10 (Feb 3, 2007)

Ty_Bower said:


> I'm not particularly concerned whether the L2D CE is actually 135 lumens, or 110, or only 90. Is the L2D CE actually brighter than the L1D CE? Let's assume both are running on alkaline cells, or both are running on NiMH cells.


 
This a question that I'm also curious about... I've ordered a L1D-CE and am considering getting a L2D-CE too, or at least a body... I realise on paper that there is a significant difference in output between them (90 vs 135 lumens), however, is this significant in real terms. As a user, and a noob, would I appreciate the difference? :thinking:


----------



## lukestephens777 (Feb 3, 2007)

Just got an email saying mine had been shipped!! Woot!!

Looking forward to this one!


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 3, 2007)

DoubleDutch said:


> When you say lower temperatures, does this mean *fridge* temp (some 6 degrees C), or *freezer* temp (minus 18 degrees C)?
> (Sorry, I don't do Fahrenheit
> 
> 
> ...


Your fridge is at 6C? Your food must not last very long. Mine is at 1C.


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 3, 2007)

cannesahs said:


> Fenixstore's whole information part at bottom of L2D CE -page is same as in L1D CE page. copypaste. Most information is same and none have had time to correct it maybe?


Why would you buy a light when the product page isn't even correct? I too am interested in the L2D CE, but I'm not going to be buying one given the lack of information, or the apparent inaccuracy, at the Fenix Store.


----------



## WildChild (Feb 3, 2007)

Stereodude said:


> Why would you buy a light when the product page isn't even correct? I too am interested in the L2D CE, but I'm not going to be buying one given the lack of information, or the apparent inaccuracy, at the Fenix Store.



What is wrong with this information? 4sevens hasn't been there for a long time because of vacancies but now he is back the information seems to be fixed! He even added pictures of L2D and L1D today!


----------



## Xygen (Feb 3, 2007)

No.10 said:


> This a question that I'm also curious about... I've ordered a L1D-CE and am considering getting a L2D-CE too, or at least a body... I realise on paper that there is a significant difference in output between them (90 vs 135 lumens), however, is this significant in real terms. As a user, and a noob, would I appreciate the difference? :thinking:


I own the L1P and L2P. The L2P is significant brighter than the L1P.
When running a LED at half voltage, you need to double the current to achieve the same brightness. That higher voltage wouldn't be a problem for a NiMh, but perhaps not for an alkaline.... don't know for sure.
But I think Fenix has chosen a current which alkaline-cells can sustain.

After buying the L1P and L2P, I only bought the L2T and now the L2D-CE. Don't mess with the single-cell light as long as you don't really need the small size or don't care for brightness.

BUT: The cree led needs only half the current! I think it will run much better than the L1P! BUY BOTH!


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 3, 2007)

WildChild said:


> What is wrong with this information? 4sevens hasn't been there for a long time because of vacancies but now he is back the information seems to be fixed! He even added pictures of L2D and L1D today!


I meant I wouldn't buy it until the information isn't updated so I could acurately compare the models. I didn't mean that I wouldn't buy from 7777 and the Fenix-Store.


----------



## paulr (Feb 3, 2007)

The issue with the L1P/D and brightness is that converting from low voltage (1 volt or so for an almost-drained AA cell) to LED voltage (3.3 volts) at high power (2 watts) requires rather large components that won't fit in such a small light. Converting from 2 volts (two cells) is a lot easier and can be done with small components. So they run the L2p/L2D at around 2 watts while they keep the L1p/L1D at more like 1 watt. Therefore the 2 cell light is brighter at the highest setting.


----------



## Xygen (Feb 3, 2007)

paulr said:


> The issue with the L1P/D and brightness is that converting from low voltage (1 volt or so for an almost-drained AA cell) to LED voltage (3.3 volts) at high power (2 watts) requires rather large components that won't fit in such a small light. Converting from 2 volts (two cells) is a lot easier and can be done with small components. So they run the L2p/L2D at around 2 watts while they keep the L1p/L1D at more like 1 watt. Therefore the 2 cell light is brighter at the highest setting.


AHA! I wanted to mention that the converting could be a problem. But I didn't knew the reason. I heard boosting a voltage is not the basic problem, but now I understand that the size of the boosting electronic could be an issue. Thanks paulr!


----------



## OCEANBEAMER (Feb 3, 2007)

Stereodude said:


> I meant I wouldn't buy it until the information isn't updated so I could acurately compare the models. I didn't mean that I wouldn't buy from 7777 and the Fenix-Store.


 NOTE to stereodude, not only has david posted updated pictures and descriptions of the new cree lights,,,But even better news,was his email to me that my L2D cree had been shipped....hurray for fenix and 4 sevens.


----------



## CeilingDweller (Feb 3, 2007)

paulr said:


> The issue with the L1P/D and brightness is that converting from low voltage (1 volt or so for an almost-drained AA cell) to LED voltage (3.3 volts) at high power (2 watts) requires rather large components that won't fit in such a small light. Converting from 2 volts (two cells) is a lot easier and can be done with small components. So they run the L2p/L2D at around 2 watts while they keep the L1p/L1D at more like 1 watt. Therefore the 2 cell light is brighter at the highest setting.


 
These lights like the L1T/L2T of yesteryear use the exact same heads. I'm basically a newbie here, but to my understanding the reason the L2D has brighter output is due to the increased voltage of the additional cell, rather than it's digital components. Paul if you put a "L1D" head on a L2D body you will have the same output as the "L2D" model. LxD only denotes the body style 1AA or 2AA.


----------



## hburner (Feb 3, 2007)

Will someone remind me how we get the discount from the Fenix store?


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 3, 2007)

OCEANBEAMER said:


> NOTE to stereodude, not only has david posted updated pictures and descriptions of the new cree lights,,,But even better news,was his email to me that my L2D cree had been shipped....hurray for fenix and 4 sevens.


I went to the site and saw that. I'll have to look over the models closely and decide which one I want. The L2D-CE looks a little odd with the body getting narrower towards the back where the 2nd cell is then flaring back out by the switch.


----------



## paulr (Feb 3, 2007)

CeilingDweller said:


> These lights like the L1T/L2T of yesteryear use the exact same heads. I'm basically a newbie here, but to my understanding the reason the L2D has brighter output is due to the increased voltage of the additional cell, rather than it's digital components. Paul if you put a "L1D" head on a L2D body you will have the same output as the "L2D" model. LxD only denotes the body style 1AA or 2AA.


 The L1D and L2D use the same head, as you mention. The additional cell increases brightness only because with the converter technology they have, they can't efficiently get two cells worth of brightness from just one cell. The battery isn't the bottleneck any more. There are high current NiMH AA cells that can supply 10 amps or more, so with a powerful enough converter they could get the full 135 lumens from one such cell (with half the runtime) and I guarantee you that almost every CPF'er would want that capability if it was available. But making a converter that powerful and that's still efficient would require big analog components (capacitors and inductors), so they instead limit the power level to keep the light small. In fact even at the lower power level, the L1p converter was less efficient than comparably powerful 1x123 (3 volt input) converters of the era, or lower powered low-voltage converters like the one in the Arc AAA. It could be that the L1D CE converter has improved efficiency and maybe we will get some measurements soon. Converter technology keeps improving just like everything else in electronics.

There ws some discussion of this over on the "flashlight electronics" forum a couple months ago if you want to look for it.


----------



## Ralls (Feb 3, 2007)

hburner said:


> Will someone remind me how we get the discount from the Fenix store?


 
Enter "cpf5" for a 5% discount.


----------



## CeilingDweller (Feb 3, 2007)

hburner said:


> Will someone remind me how we get the discount from the Fenix store?


 
I think cpf5


----------



## CeilingDweller (Feb 3, 2007)

paulr said:


> The L1D and L2D use the same head, as you mention. The additional cell increases brightness only because with the converter technology they have, they can't efficiently get two cells worth of brightness from just one cell. The battery isn't the bottleneck any more. There are high current NiMH AA cells that can supply 10 amps or more, so with a powerful enough converter they could get the full 135 lumens from one such cell (with half the runtime) and I guarantee you that almost every CPF'er would want that capability if it was available. But making a converter that powerful and that's still efficient would require big components (capacitors and inductors), so they instead limit the power level to keep the light small. In fact even at the lower power level, the L1p converter was less efficient than comparably powerful 1x123 (3 volt input) converters of the era, or lower powered low-voltage converters like the one in the Arc AAA. It could be that the L1D CE converter has improved efficiency and maybe we will get some measurements soon. Converter technology keeps improving just like everything else in electronics.
> 
> There ws some discussion of this over on the "flashlight electronics" forum a couple months ago if you want to look for it.


 
Ah ok I'm with you Paul. I didn't quite understand what you were saying. I guess also they can get more bang for they're buck by just making a shorter or longer body. Thanks for the input. I'll check into those threads, I want to better understand how converters work.


----------



## lukestephens777 (Feb 3, 2007)

Am i correct in thinking The fenix L2D CE will be supposedly 135 lumens off two nimh's? Just checked the Fenix-store website, they said "Uses two 1.5V AA ( Alkaline, NiMH, Lithium ) batteries"

Will there be a brightness difference between 1.5v and NIMH cells?


----------



## SKYWLKR (Feb 3, 2007)

What do you think will be the output of the L1D on Disposable Lithiums or even the BS 1.7+ volt over achever's


----------



## AtomSphere (Feb 3, 2007)

2 questions:

1. The L2D CE's head is not compatible with the L2T body right?
2. Is there a pocket clip for the L2D CE to prevent roll? I thought i saw one that comes with pocket clip as an accessory.


----------



## coppertrail (Feb 3, 2007)

Probably a bit higher than NiMH cells. I ran a Lithium primary in my L0D and L2T, and it seems a bit brighter than Alkaline primaries. I'm now using Eneloop cells in my L0D CE and Hybrids in my L2T. 

Want to see something interesting? Apply DeoxIT gold to your charger contacts and cell terminals. My Eneloops had consistently registered 1.35V off the charger. After DeOxit Gold, they're registering 1.44V


----------



## Burgess (Feb 4, 2007)

Coppertrail -

Thanks for the DeOxit/ProGold tip !


Hafta' try that one.







(isn't CPF wonderful !)


----------



## CeilingDweller (Feb 4, 2007)

AtomSphere said:


> 2 questions:
> 
> 1. The L2D CE's head is not compatible with the L2T body right?
> 2. Is there a pocket clip for the L2D CE to prevent roll? I thought i saw one that comes with pocket clip as an accessory.


 
And you call yourself a flashaholic! Bah! lol j/k!

1.) No not compatible threads are different.
2.) A pocket clip for the AAA lights only. I use the lanyard to prevent roll, and it works great.


----------



## yellow (Feb 4, 2007)

lukestephens777 said:


> Am i correct in thinking The fenix L2D CE will be supposedly 135 lumens off two nimh's? Just checked the Fenix-store website, they said "Uses two 1.5V AA ( Alkaline, NiMH, Lithium ) batteries"
> 
> Will there be a brightness difference between 1.5v and NIMH cells?


jupps, but the real big difference is, that the driver will be bypassed for the lower levels when input voltage is more than 3.5 Volts.
effect: L2D and L1D (L1D on one li-ion 14500) will be equally bright! 
But L1D-CE wont have lower levels (in the beginning, till voltage drops below 3.5) 

2nd question: Ni-Mhs can stand the current needed for a longer time, so You will be better off with them (non decreasing output for longer time than 1.5 Alkalines)


----------



## dekelsey61 (Feb 4, 2007)

Hi Chris,
You are right about the DeoxIT gold on charger and battery contacts. I use ISO-HEAT that you get at walmart in the auto section. It is the only product that is 100 percent alcohol. A electronic engineer started me in using ISO-HEAT. It works great and keeps all your contacts clean. Just thought I would add this note.
Dan
BTY- I like the picture you have of the Fenix L2D CE flashlight. It looks like a great light. I should get mine on monday. Can not wait.




coppertrail said:


> Probably a bit higher than NiMH cells. I ran a Lithium primary in my L0D and L2T, and it seems a bit brighter than Alkaline primaries. I'm now using Eneloop cells in my L0D CE and Hybrids in my L2T.
> 
> Want to see something interesting? Apply DeoxIT gold to your charger contacts and cell terminals. My Eneloops had consistently registered 1.35V off the charger. After DeOxit Gold, they're registering 1.44V


----------



## coppertrail (Feb 4, 2007)

Hi Deke - 

Thank you for the tip on ISO-Heat, I'd not heard about this product. You use it to clean the threads/contacts on your lights and the contacts on your chargers? Great info. 

Looking forward to the L2D CE tomorrow or Tues. as well


----------



## dekelsey61 (Feb 4, 2007)

Chris,
I use ISO-HEET(In red bottle) on all metal to metal contacts. The best part for a little more than $1.00 you can get 12oz. and that will last forever. I dampen a old clean rag or use foam(like cotton swaub) sticks. They work great. Like you say my batteries comes off my C9000 charger at 1.44-1.45volts. Just great!! Anytime I get a new charger or batteries before I even use them I use my ISO-Heet to clean the contacts just in case there maybe oils on the contacts.
Dan


----------



## coppertrail (Feb 4, 2007)

Awesome, that's much cheaper than DeoxIT  . Thanks for sharing, I'm going to look for it during my next trip to WalMart.


----------



## chadwide (Feb 4, 2007)

Does anyone have an estimate on the runtimes with good NiMH batteries? I'm hoping that the stated runtimes are with alkalines and that the NiMHs will run alot longer.


----------



## zeeexsixare (Feb 4, 2007)

lukestephens777 said:


> Just got an email saying mine had been shipped!! Woot!!
> 
> Looking forward to this one!


It's "w00t" not "woot."


----------



## TORCH_BOY (Feb 4, 2007)

Isopropyl Alcohol will clean contacts and threads and solder pads


----------



## Pla (Feb 5, 2007)

The problem with 1 or 2 batteries is mostly what current can the battery provide.

For 3W, 2 batteries of 1.5V need to provide 1A (1A*3V = 3W)
where a single battery has to provide 2A (2A*1.5V = 3W)

And alkaline batteries may not be able to provide 2A at 1.5V (or 3A at 1V)
NiMH may provide more current than alkaline batteries (no idea what number, but it is proportianal to the capacity)

And Li-Po batteries may provide very high currents (20-30 C , where 20C for 2000mAH is 40A)


----------



## MarNav1 (Feb 5, 2007)

The server is busy now-please try again later.


----------



## LA OZ (Feb 5, 2007)

L2D CE design looks almost an exact image of the L2T.
http://www.torchworld.com.au/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=370&zenid=0b9d4fe7064cf664b205b4df4d6192ee


----------



## Curious_character (Feb 5, 2007)

Pla said:


> The problem with 1 or 2 batteries is mostly what current can the battery provide.
> 
> For 3W, 2 batteries of 1.5V need to provide 1A (1A*3V = 3W)
> where a single battery has to provide 2A (2A*1.5V = 3W)
> ...


You've got that right about alkaline batteries. I don't have a convenient way to do a constant-current discharge at 2A, but here's what a new "1.5 volt" Duracell alkaline AA does at 1A:

Voltage under load (1A)

Start 1.28
1 min 1.24
2 min 1.20
3 min 1.16
4 min 1.14
5 min 1.12
6 min 1.10
10 min 1.05
15 min 1.00

Even a NiMH AAA runs circles around it, with a stable 1.14 volts at 15 minutes. The difference at 2A would be much more striking yet, with the alkaline cell delivering hardly any energy, and at a very low voltage.

In a regulated light, the current increases as the voltage drops. This further accelerates the voltage drop, and alkalines go dead very fast at modern LED current levels. They're really suitable only for low-current lights.

I always have to chuckle when people refer to alkaline cells as "1.5 volt" and NiMH cells as "1.2 volt" as though they really deliver those voltages under load.

c_c


----------



## AtomSphere (Feb 6, 2007)

There are some reviews of the L2D CE on the fenix web site. 5 stars for both reviews


----------



## curtis22 (Feb 6, 2007)

AtomSphere said:


> There are some reviews of the L2D CE on the fenix web site. 5 stars for both reviews



They are at the Fenix-store site.


----------



## RoyJ (Feb 7, 2007)

Curious_character said:


> They're really suitable only for low-current lights.


 
Actually IMO they're only for wall clocks... :laughing:


----------



## InfidelCastro (Feb 7, 2007)

AtomSphere said:


> 2. Is there a pocket clip for the L2D CE to prevent roll? I thought i saw one that comes with pocket clip as an accessory.





No, Fenix still hasn't invested in putting a decent pocketclip or tactical clicky for us. :/


----------



## Frank Maddix (Feb 7, 2007)

maverick215 said:


> do we have word yet if these are compatible with the 123 tube?


Now *that* is a very interesting question - I have a 123 tube for my L2P head, so will let you know as soon as my L1DCE arrives. For me, it would resolve many of the problems of the P1DCE to do with one-handed operation.


----------



## gunga (Feb 7, 2007)

+1 to the post count.

Nope, L1/2D heads are not compatible with L1/2T stuff, including the 123 tube. 4x7's says so in some of the other threads.

Only 9 more posts to crack 100...


----------



## Lobo (Feb 7, 2007)

Think I posted this somewhere else, but anyway, for you have the L2D, how significant is the battery rattle? I have an L2p that has rattles quite a lot with Nimh, quite annoying and makes the light feel cheaper.


----------



## curtis22 (Feb 7, 2007)

Lobo said:


> Think I posted this somewhere else, but anyway, for you have the L2D, how significant is the battery rattle? I have an L2p that has rattles quite a lot with Nimh, quite annoying and makes the light feel cheaper.



My L2D has Nimh batteries. There is no rattle.


----------



## hburner (Feb 8, 2007)

Ordered mine on Feb 3 (Saturday). I paid for the extra 5.00 priority mail shipping (that was a 5.00 loss) It did not ship until Feb 6 (Tuesday?)Wonder why the 24 hour delay in shipping?Acutally 48 hour delay if you consider that I ordered it on Saturday.

I was hoping to have it by now so I could decide if I wanted to order another or an L1D or the P1D, but I tend to be a stickler for shipping orders promptly when you have a store and that is your business. I am thruogh venting now, just pissed. But hey I guess everbody has their times when sh!t happens.


----------



## Anders (Feb 8, 2007)

Hello.

Back on Topic

Energizer e2 primary Lithium cells open voltage 1,7 V showed 0,91 A in Turbo mode (new cells).

My old Digital 2000 Nimh showed 1,47 A in Turbo mode?
Both Energizer 2500 Nimh and Eneloop showed 1,24 A in Turbo mode.

I measured at the battery.

So ,is Lithium cells still the best way to go or is it so that they could not supply that amount of A to give the best of L2D CE?


Anders


----------



## hburner (Feb 8, 2007)

Anders, sounds like the primary liths are dropping under load as you said. Can you notice a difference in brightness between the primary liths and the nimh rechargeables?


----------



## Anders (Feb 8, 2007)

Hello hburner.

No, it is impossible for me to tell.
I think it is time for me to buy a luxmeter.

Anders


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 8, 2007)

*Anders* wrote: _"Energizer e2 primary Lithium cells open voltage 1,7 V showed 0,91 A in Turbo mode (new cells)._
_My old Digital 2000 Nimh showed 1,47 A in Turbo mode?_
_Both Energizer 2500 Nimh and Eneloop showed 1,24 A in Turbo mode._
_So ,is Lithium cells still the best way to go or is it so that they could not supply that amount of A to give the best of L2D CE?"_


I had thought (assumed) that primary Lithium AA's would give better performance than NiMH.

But Anders current draw readings made me measure the currents - 
and I got basically the same results.

Please see Post #*11* in

Fenix L2D-CE Comparison Review









you can be the judge......


----------



## Mike abcd (Feb 8, 2007)

Anders said:


> Hello.
> 
> Back on Topic
> 
> ...



The boost regulator is trying to deliver a constant current to the LED. The LED voltage varies with the current and its temperature but it's pretty accurate to view the boost regulator is trying to deliver constant power.

The highest voltage cells under load are the Lithiums so the regulator draws the least current since Power = Voltage x Current. The old 2000 mAH NiMH hold voltage under load the worst so the regulator draws the highest current.

The regulator isn't perfect and performs better with the higher voltage under load cells so it will be brighter. It probably also consumes more power from the batteries and delivers more power to the LED.

Mike


----------



## Anders (Feb 9, 2007)

Hello Mike abcd.

Yes you are absolutely right, i was thinking about this during the day and found out about it too 

Now when i got home i did another measure.
Lithium under load 3,47 V X 0,91 A = 3,25 Watt
Nimh under load 2,65 V X 1,23 A = 3,15 Watt

The numbers in my DMM aren't steady so it is basically the same Watt
, no advantages of any of them in the manner of giving more power to this light, exept that Lithiums give more hours with 2900 mAh but they are more expensive than Nimh if you use you light frequently.

I don't know how the cells behave when half way used, maybe one is better then the other?


Anders


----------



## Anders (Feb 9, 2007)

Double post


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 9, 2007)

*Anders* wrote: _"Hello Mike abcd._
_You are absolutely right, i was thinking about this during the day and also found out about it



._
_Now when i got home i did another measure._
_Lithium under load 3,47 V X 0,91 A = 3,25 Watt_
_Nimh under load 2,65 V X 1,23 A = 3,15 Watt_
_The numbers in my DMM aren't steady so it is basically the same Watt_
_, no advantages of any of them in the manner of giving more power to this light" _

Sorry to jump in - but since you posted basically this in the thread -

Fenix L2D-CE Comparison Review 

I thought I should also respond here -

Both you and Mike_abcd are correct to calculate the wattage consumption - as that is the total power delivered from the batteries.

However are your figures the actual voltages _UNDER-LOAD? -_ they look more like open-circuit voltages (normally I would have thought voltages under load/in use were lower).

Using my measurements and taking the lower open-circuit voltages (measured directly after my tests) I get -

NiMH 2.56V x 1.33A = *3.4 watts*
primary Lithium AA 3.15V x 0.92A = *2.9 watts*

even taking into account that there may be some inaccuracy in my measurements or DMM - 
the NiMH is delivering *over 17%* more power/watts than the primary lithium AA's - although 17% may theoretically still be in some sort of a margin of error - it just seems a bit too high/significant to me for that.

My side-by-side beamshots also seem to show that the L2D-CE on NiMH appears to be brighter than on primary lithium AA's

Ref: see Post #*122* above

and Posts #*5* , #*11* in

Fenix L2D-CE Comparison Review

_EDIT to ADD -_

hello Anders,

It just occured to me you actually have a L2D-CE.

If you take a known/reference light of similar brightness and then compare in turn with the L2D-CE on NiMH, then primary lithium AA's - shouldn't you be able to tell if there is any brightness difference between the two combinations?

Better still take some side-by-side beamshots with NiMH and then primary Lithium - with that reference/known light - at full auto exposure, then one at -2 stops underexposed - then look at the beamshots......

Or, if you don't have a reference light - then use Manual exposure and take photos of the L2D-CE on NiMH then primary lithium with the exact same exposure (you may have to vary the exposures to get shots you can compare - but the two photos to be finally compared _MUST_ have the exact same exposure settings) - then display the two shots side-by-side - and see if there is any difference?


----------



## WildChild (Feb 9, 2007)

I just got my L2D CE! I love it. The build quality seems to me much better than my L2T. Anodizing is also slightly darker (better?). As everyone, the beam is ringy here. I think I have an idea of what cause the rings! It seems to me that it's the top of the metallic circle around the Cree dome that gets reflected but no light escape from it . Overall I give it a 9/10 for the price. For me the only drawback is the ringy beam but I don't think I'll notice it much with normal use.

Some pictures including the L2T:

http://picasaweb.google.com/picasawildchild/L2DCE


----------



## Anders (Feb 9, 2007)

Hello Vincent.

I'll give it a try.
First Eneloop f2,7 1,25 sec second Lithium, same settings:








Then Eneloop f3,5 1,25 sec, second Lithium, same setting:







Hmm, didn't like that my L2D CE isn't in exact same position.

Hard to tell if it is any difference.
Sorry i havent got your skills to make them side by side :mecry:

Anders


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 9, 2007)

*Anders* wrote: _"I'll give it a try._
_First Eneloop f2,7 1,25 sec second Lithium, same settings:_
_Then Eneloop f3,5 1,25 sec, second Lithium, same setting:_
_Hard to tell if it is any difference."_

Many thanks for you efforts





I would agree with you that there is hardly any difference - 
certainly not enough to make any practical difference.

Your power/watts measurements actually reflect that outcome.

Whereas as I stated in response to you above - my measurements were closer to over 17% difference and my actual beamshots also seemed to reflect that in the my sample of L2D-CE is slightly brighter on NiMH than primary lithiums - again it is slightly brighter - but nothing significant -
put our differences down to perhaps small sample variations.

Although comment must be made that my sample of the L2D-CE on NiMH Turbo is about equal brightness as a P1D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123 High - which I think is a remarkable performance - out of mere 2 AA batteries - probably UNheard of a few months (or even weeks) ago......


----------



## Mike abcd (Feb 9, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> *Anders* wrote: _"Hello Mike abcd._
> _You are absolutely right, i was thinking about this during the day and also found out about it
> 
> 
> ...



Vincent,

It's impossible to compare power delivered using the current measurements under load and the battery voltage not under load since voltage will "sag" under load and recover differently. I was only trying to explain why current varies based on the voltage under load when a regulation circuit is used.

I'm certainly not taking any position here regarding brightness or power delivered with NiMH vs 1.5 V Lithium primaries as I haven't tried 1.5 V Lithium primaries. However, all the tests I can remember seem to show 1.5 V Lithium primaries outperforming NiMH. The state of charge and the capabilities of the particular batteries used (mAH and current capability) play a big role.

Mike


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 9, 2007)

*Mike abcd* wrote: _"I'm certainly not taking any position here regarding brightness or power delivered with NiMH vs 1.5 V Lithium primaries as I haven't tried 1.5 V Lithium primaries. However, all the tests I can remember seem to show 1.5 V Lithium primaries outperforming NiMH. The state of charge and the capabilities of the particular batteries used (mAH and current capability) play a big role."_

I would have agreed with you - and certainly you can see my embarrassing post where I assumed primary Lithiums would out perform NiMH in brightness -
see Post #*5* in Fenix L2D-CE Comparison Review .

However when Anders posted his current readings - I was surprised and did my own and took actual side-by-side beamshots comparing to a P1D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable RCR123 on High - and was surprised to see the L2D-CE NiMH Turbo combination was about equal - whereas the deduction comparison showed that the L2D-CE primary lithiums Turbo was not (actual latter comparison was with a L1D-CE on 3.7V Li-Ion Rechargeable 14500)

I am more than willing to put all this down to slight sample variations.

and just in case you think I have some super-duper ultra high capacity NiMH - 
they are some more than 3 years old Ray-O-Vac 1600mAh that I used a lot in my digital camera - so probably not in any form of peak condition......


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 9, 2007)

I have just posted some direct side-by-side comparison beamshots of the L2D-CE on NiMH and primary lithiums - 
no, I do not have 2 L2D-CE's - but I took the shots separately with the exact same exposure settings and merged the photos to get these composites that look like direct side-by-side comparisons.

To eliminate any possibility of errors I also took comparison beamshots against a control reference - a P1D-CE on primary CR123A High.

Please see -

*Part 2* - Fenix L2D-CE *NiMH vs. Primary Lithium AA - *Post #*17* in 

Fenix L2D-CE Comparison Review


----------



## kiwi hunter (Feb 9, 2007)

While we are talking about the L2D (as am about to order a couple)....can someone let me know if the Switch can be 'secured' so that it can't be accidentally pushed. I know that the button is recessed, and thus it would need a direct push to enable BUT if I wanted to make it inoperable, from the obvious steps of removing the batteries....does rotating the bezel or tail-cap operate a safe button mode?

Thanks


----------



## oregon (Feb 9, 2007)

kiwi hunter said:


> ....does rotating the bezel or tail-cap operate a safe button mode?


 
Yes. Lock out the tail clickie by rotating the tail-cap about 1/4 turn. 

If you rotate the bezel you activate the general mode until the head falls off.

oregon


----------



## Curious_character (Feb 9, 2007)

It sounds like some folks are expecting the L2D CE to have more throw or total light output than a P1D CE, but the only way I can see for this to happen is by some sort of magic or marketing legerdemain. What you get with the L2D CE is longer run time and a more common battery type, not more light.

I'm still way behind a lot of folks here, but I have played with and measured the light from quite a few lights now which have a Cree or Seoul P4 LED, including 7 lights I've modified to take the Seoul.

Based on this, I've concluded:

1. You won't find a light with much more total light output than a P1D CE, since it's apparently running the LED near maximum (or at least within 20% or so of maximum), and its reflector and lens seem about as efficient as most.

2. You won't find a light with much more throw than a P1D CE, unless it has a significantly deeper and/or larger diameter reflector, or perhaps an optic. For a given amount of total light, the only way to get more throw is to focus the beam more tightly and/or reducing the spill. The D-Mini is an example of this being done. But the L2D has no way of doing it.

c_c


----------



## kiwi hunter (Feb 10, 2007)

oregon said:


> Yes. Lock out the tail clickie by rotating the tail-cap about 1/4 turn.
> 
> If you rotate the bezel you activate the general mode until the head falls off.
> 
> oregon



thanks dude...I luv this forum - have a question, get answer!


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 10, 2007)

Ok, well I dove in headfirst and ordered a L2D-CE. Not sure if they're in stock or not though. Looking forward to getting it.


----------



## chevrofreak (Feb 10, 2007)

Curious_character said:


> It sounds like some folks are expecting the L2D CE to have more throw or total light output than a P1D CE, but the only way I can see for this to happen is by some sort of magic or marketing legerdemain. What you get with the L2D CE is longer run time and a more common battery type, not more light.



Per my own measurements the L2D CE does put out a bit more light than the P1D CE. It could be due to the L2D CE getting a higher flux bin LED though.


----------



## Curious_character (Feb 10, 2007)

chevrofreak said:


> Per my own measurements the L2D CE does put out a bit more light than the P1D CE. It could be due to the L2D CE getting a higher flux bin LED though.


Sure, there are a lot of factors which will cause small differences, even between two lights of the same type. These include variations in the amount of current supplied by the regulator, battery type and condition, small differences in focus (which affects the main beam brightness -- "throw" -- but generally not the total light output) , and LED-to-LED variation -- even within the same "bin", among others. And if more than one person is doing the measuring, there are also a number of factors involved with the measurement process.

But I was referring to really significant differences.

c_c


----------



## Stella_Polaris (Feb 10, 2007)

On fenix-store.com it says about the L2D CE:

"Operation
Fully press to switch on and turn the bezel to select the General Mode or the Turbo Mode. A soft-press anytime while the light is on will change the brightness levels of a certain mode. Keep the light off for over 2 seconds, the light will turn completely off, and the regulative circuit will be restored."

Is there ANY indication on the bezel when you are in the boost (full 135 lumen mode) or do you just have to rely on your eyes to tell?

Am I correct when I read the info on L2D CE thus: It will operate 2,4 hours on the full strobe level (135 lumens) on just two plain AA batteries?

I hope to get some help from you guys since I am a novice into flashlights!

Best,

Bo.


----------



## oregon (Feb 10, 2007)

With the head tightly screwed into place: full operation of the tail clickie gives you maximum brightness. Partial operation of the tail clickie gives you wicked fast and bright strobe. That is it. Either one or the other.

With the head backed off a small bit: full operation of the tail clickie gives you dim. Partial operation of the tail clickie cycles thru medium, high, SOS and then dim again. That is it.

If you want to get maximum brightness and strobe then you must tighten the head back to full tight.

I hope this helps. 

I really find the user interface rewarding.

All the best,

oregon


----------



## thelightdude (Feb 11, 2007)

oregon said:


> With the head tightly screwed into place: full operation of the tail clickie gives you maximum brightness. Partial operation of the tail clickie gives you wicked fast and bright strobe. That is it. Either one or the other.
> 
> With the head backed off a small bit: full operation of the tail clickie gives you dim. Partial operation of the tail clickie cycles thru medium, high, SOS and then dim again. That is it.
> 
> ...




The above post is an excellent description of how the light works.
There is no printing on the light to indicate which mode it is in.


----------



## Stella_Polaris (Feb 11, 2007)

Thanks! Any of you tried out if the light really can light over 2 hours on the full boost mode (135 lumens)?

By the way: The beam shots on page 5 in this thread against the wall with a barometer (or clock) and painting does not really look that bright to me!

Any comments?

I want a BRIIIIIGHT light!

Bo.


----------



## Anders (Feb 11, 2007)

Hello Stella_Polaris.

The beamshots where just made for comparition between different cells.
I made them dim for better comparition.

If you look closer at the shots you don't see much more than the hotspot, this light have more sidespill than Surefire U2 but thoose shots doesn't show that because the time in the photos isn't slow enough.

Much brighter in real life. brighter than U2.

I don't have the equippment to measure lux over time so i can't give you any answer to your other question.

Anders


----------



## cdosrun (Feb 11, 2007)

Bo,

I think those shots were underexposed to avoid over exposing the hot spot. The point in those photos was to compare the hot spot of the light between two types of cells, so it was advantageous to under expose.

I am sure that UnknownVT will add the L1D & L2D to his outdoor beamshots when he has a chance. He has put some indoor ones the L1D up here https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1837018&postcount=96 
Ah, and the L2D ones here. https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/1845008&postcount=21

Andrew

EDIT: Anders beat me to it, I really am getting slow in my old age 
Oh, and Chevrofreak is doing the runtime tests on the L1D and L2D at the moment, but he has said that it will probably be a couple of weeks due to the long runtime in the lower modes.


----------



## yellow (Feb 11, 2007)

If everyone just posted the current draw from the batt,
calculating possible runtime would be a breeze...


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 11, 2007)

Stella_Polaris said:


> Am I correct when I read the info on L2D CE thus: It will operate 2,4 hours on the full strobe level (135 lumens) on just two plain AA batteries?


That's what it says. You're reading it correctly. Now, that doesn't guarantee it will do that, but Fenix's stated runtimes seem to be fairly accurate on previous models. As an aside, you wouldn't get those runtimes with Alkaline AAs.


----------



## Stella_Polaris (Feb 11, 2007)

So I should go for nimh AA's?


----------



## Anders (Feb 11, 2007)

Maybe longer runtimes with Lithium AA 1,5 V, but much cheaper with Nimh if you are planning to use it for a long time. 

Alkalines have much shorter runtimes and won't be bright enough for you, See earlier shots by Vincent.
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/152286
#21

Anders


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 11, 2007)

Stella_Polaris said:


> So I should go for nimh AA's?


Probably. If you're not going to use it heavily I would suggest getting Sanyo eneloop AA's or another NiMH with very low self discharge rates. The 2700mAh NiMH's are nice and will give a little extra run time over the eneloops, but when you grab the light after it sat for a month or two and it only runs for 10 minutes you'll be cursing those 2700's. Now, if you use the light heavily and recharge frequently then it doesn't matter which type of NiMH cells you get.


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 11, 2007)

*Stereodude* wrote: _"Probably. If you're not going to use it heavily I would suggest getting Sanyo eneloop AA's or another NiMH with very low self discharge rates. The 2700mAh NiMH's are nice and will give a little extra run time over the eneloops, but when you grab the light after it sat for a month or two and it only runs for 10 minutes you'll be cursing those 2700's. Now, if you use the light heavily and recharge frequently then it doesn't matter which type of NiMH cells you get."_

NiMH would seem to be the way to go, and the above is very good advice.

However something has just occured to me - 
one might have to be pretty diligent not to damage the NiMH batteries.

The L2Dce is spec'd to operate as low as 0.9V (the L1Dce head is the same and interechangeable) - and this is _WAY_ too low for 2x NiMH AA batteries - this in effect would be a very deep discharge - which could cause permanent damage to the NiMH batteries.

Now whether the L2Dce would actually drain the batteries that low has not been confirmed - but the specs would seem that way - at least on paper.

So if I were using NiMH in the L2Dce I would _NOT_ leave the light ON _UN_attended, 
also I would watch for signs of the light dimming to stop its use before the batteries are discharged too far.

Be grateful for any battery experts who might comment on this thought?


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 11, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> However something has just occured to me -
> one might have to be pretty diligent not to damage the NiMH batteries.
> 
> The L2Dce is spec'd to operate as low as 0.9V (the L1Dce head is the same and interechangeable) - and this is _WAY_ too low for 2x NiMH AA batteries - this in effect would be a very deep discharge - which could cause permanent damage to the NiMH batteries.
> ...


Somewhere between .9V and 1.0V is fine for a NiMH cell. Besides it won't be able to deliver the current needed to keep the light lit before it dips as low as .9V. Look at the following graph from Energizer on their 2500mAh AA cell.







You see it basically drops straight down from 1.05V at a 1.25A discharge. Effectively it can't keep the light lit anymore at that point, so it shouldn't pull the battery below that point.


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 11, 2007)

*Stereodude* wrote: _"Somewhere between .9V and 1.0V is fine for a NiMH cell. Besides it won't be able to deliver the current needed to keep the light lit before it dips as low as .9V. Look at the following graph from Energizer on their 2500mAh AA cell."_

Hey - _pay attention_ please (said in good humor, no insult intended



)

That's fine for _ONE_ _single_ NiMH battery -

_BUT_ what about *2x NiMH in series* which is normally about 2.7V - 
is it really OK to have that _series_ continue draining down as low as 0.9V?


----------



## Anders (Feb 11, 2007)

I think you are right about this Vincent.
0,9 V is the lowest V you should disharge your cells to (one cell).

So if the L2D CE look weak in turbo mode, change your cells.

Anders


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 11, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> _BUT_ what about *2x NiMH in series* which is normally about 2.7V -
> is it really OK to have that _series_ continue draining down as low as 0.9V?


Ok, so I missed that part of your post. You raise a good question, but I don't see anything about a .9V cutout on either Fenix's site, or the Fenix Store's page. I can only assume that if this was a big problem it would have surfaced on previous Fenix lights.


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 11, 2007)

*Stereodude* wrote: _"but I don't see anything about a .9V cutout on either Fenix's site, or the Fenix Store's page. I can only assume that if this was a big problem it would have surfaced on previous Fenix lights."_

Some simple logic - Since the heads of the L2Dce and L1Dce are the same and interechangeable - they _HAVE_ to be able to operate to as low as at least 1.1V (this is pretty marginal for _ONE_ single NiMH - 0.9V seems to me to be a much better lower limit......)

So is 1.1V safe for 2x NiMH in series?

This is not an unlikely scenario..... leaving a flashlight on _UN_attended - when eventually the batteries drain until there is basically NO light - the returning user forgets the light is still ON (but showing _NO_ light) and puts the light away - _viola!_ over drained and permanently damaged batteries.

Second not so unlikely scenario - out in the field using the L2Dce - the light goes dim - but no replacement batteries and need to see - so user tries to get light for as long as possible - is this likely to drain those 2x NiMH in series to as low as 1.1V (or 0.9V) - is this OK?

Personally I see both as possible problems -

BUT that is not the same as saying I would _NOT_ use NiMH - 
in fact I think it's ideal for the L2Dce - 
just I would not use it UNattended 
and would stop when I see the light showing sign of dimming 
(but now I'm repeating myself



)


----------



## coppertrail (Feb 11, 2007)

Eneloop AA/AAA cells have been working great in my Fenix CREE lights.


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 11, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> This is not an unlikely scenario..... leaving a flashlight on _UN_attended - when eventually the batteries drain until there is basically NO light - the returning user forgets the light is still ON (but showing _NO_ light) and puts the light away - _viola!_ over drained and permanently damaged batteries.
> 
> Second not so unlikely scenario - out in the field using the L2Dce - the light goes dim - but no replacement batteries and need to see - so user tries to get light for as long as possible - is this likely to drain those 2x NiMH in series to as low as 1.1V (or 0.9V) - is this OK?


I don't really see the first scenario as likely. The L2D-CE is not an area light. I can't think of when I've left a 1AA or 2AA light on unattended for even more than a few seconds. At least for my usage, I carry this style of light around with me in my hand while I'm using it.

The second scenario sounds like an emergency usage scenario, in which case damaging the batteries is a small price to pay for that extra light.

As I mentioned earlier... This isn't the first 2AA light Fenix has made with this "issue", and I've not seen any posts by people complaining about damaged cells. Not saying it's impossible to do, just seems unlikely.


----------



## UnknownVT (Feb 11, 2007)

*Stereodude wrote: "*_I don't really see the first scenario as likely. The L2D-CE is not an area light. I can't think of when I've left a 1AA or 2AA light on unattended for even more than a few seconds. At least for my usage, I carry this style of light around with me in my hand while I'm using it._

_The second scenario sounds like an emergency usage scenario, in which case damaging the batteries is a small price to pay for that extra light._

_As I mentioned earlier... This isn't the first 2AA light Fenix has made with this "issue", and I've not seen any posts by people complaining about damaged cells. Not saying it's impossible to do, just seems unlikely."_

All I said was I personally would simply use some diligence when using the L2Dce on NiMH - a simple bit of caution is not going to cost or harm anything - 

Or are you so sure and want to insist it's OK -
so would you actually guarantee NiMH would not be over drained in the L2Dce - in writing?

So how do we send damaged NiMH cells to you for replacement?


----------



## Stereodude (Feb 11, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> So how do we send damaged NiMH cells to you for replacement?


Just put them in an envelope address to Stereodude, and they'll find me. I swear!


----------



## Mike abcd (Feb 11, 2007)

NiMH tolerates over discharge below .9 V under load well with little impact on cell capacity or cycle life.

The danger with NiMH over discharge is the potential for a cell having it's polarity reversed when using multiple cells. That has a significant effect on capacity and cycle life.

If one cell has more capacity than the other and you run them down too far, the higher capacity cell can reverse the polarity of the weaker cell. That can't happen in the one cell L1 series but can in the L2 series or any other multi cell light.

Please remember that discharge voltages are always specified UNDER LOAD. The voltage measured after you pull the batteries out and measure them without a load will always be higher and a poor indication of the voltage it had under load.

Mike


----------



## Xygen (Feb 11, 2007)

Just want to add my finding regarding over-discharge:
I used the light in candlemode at level "high" for a few minutes. Suddenly the brightness dropped to medium level. I checked it and found that high and turbo was the same brightness as medium. I checked both NiMh-cells with my ansmann battery tester which uses a little load to determine the condition. It showed 0% for both cells and 0.95/0.65 Volts.
So when this happens to you, your cells might be quite drained.
Hope that helps....

Rico


----------



## Curious_character (Feb 11, 2007)

UnknownVT said:


> *Stereodude* wrote:
> NiMH would seem to be the way to go, and the above is very good advice.
> 
> However something has just occured to me -
> ...


Discharging NiMh cells to a very low voltage doesn't damage them -- in fact, this technique is sometimes intentionally used to recover cells which have been stored for long periods. What will damage them is if cells which are being discharged in series aren't matched well in capacity or charge, so that one cell discharges completely and charges in reverse due to the current from the stronger cell. Some NiMH types even claim to be able to handle a small amount of reverse charge without damage, but too much can and will cause permanent damage. It can result in venting, which further reduces the cell's capacity and makes the problem even worse in the future.

You should always keep cells together which are used together in order to minimize the chances of this happening. If you do that, you won't usually encounter a reverse charge problem unless you discharge the battery to a very low voltage level.

c_c


----------



## MilitaryPower (Feb 12, 2007)

Okay let me get this: I can get 135 regulated lumens for over two hours on 2 AA's? Then why do Surefire flashlights do 100 lumens for only one hour on two CR123A's? Is this Fenix that good?


----------



## greenstuffs (Feb 12, 2007)

MilitaryPower said:


> Okay let me get this: I can get 135 regulated lumens for over two hours on 2 AA's? Then why do Surefire flashlights do 100 lumens for only one hour on two CR123A's? Is this Fenix that good?



Fenix uses CREE, i bet surefire can do the same if not better by using CREE.


----------



## MilitaryPower (Feb 12, 2007)

greenstuffs said:


> Fenix uses CREE, i bet surefire can do the same if not better by using CREE.


 If that be the case, one of these is MINE!


----------



## Xygen (Feb 12, 2007)

MilitaryPower said:


> Okay let me get this: I can get 135 regulated lumens for over two hours on 2 AA's? Then why do Surefire flashlights do 100 lumens for only one hour on two CR123A's? Is this Fenix that good?


For exact numbers, we'll have to wait 'till chevrofreak completes his runtime-tests...


----------



## bill_n_opus (Feb 12, 2007)

MilitaryPower said:


> Okay let me get this: I can get 135 regulated lumens for over two hours on 2 AA's? Then why do Surefire flashlights do 100 lumens for only one hour on two CR123A's? Is this Fenix that good?


 
You're comparing apples to oranges ... 

Fenix is the first major manufacturer that's using the higher efficiency LED emitters in quantity available to the public ... when Surefire gets their production going with these new emitters then you'll see more lumens for the same or less power along with the usual Surefire quality.

At a cost of course ....


----------



## MrFunk (Feb 12, 2007)

Hi, anybody knows why fenix doesn't reply to my questions ? I wanna order a p1dce and a l2dce but when I ask for availability no reply from them.
I waited 4 days to know if it's all available !
Thanks for all your help, last time I spoken with 4sevens


----------



## Jay R (Feb 12, 2007)

MrFunk said:


> Hi, anybody knows why fenix doesn't reply to my questions ? I wanna order a p1dce and a l2dce but when I ask for availability no reply from them.
> I waited 4 days to know if it's all available !
> Thanks for all your help, last time I spoken with 4sevens


 
What do you mean by Fenix isn't replying ?? 4sevens runs Fenix-Store.com. An independent retalier not connected to Fenix the company.
I know 4sevens has just come back from a show and has weeks worth of e'mails to get through. Perhaps it's just taking him time.

If you are e'mailing Fenix directly..... who knows ?


----------



## MrFunk (Feb 12, 2007)

I speak about Fenix-store, I asked them several times for an order but with no reply.
Maybe 4seven is under his gb of mail !


----------



## shao.fu.tzer (Feb 12, 2007)

adnj said:


> The typical, new refrigerator is calibrated to 37 deg F; the freezer is at 0 (ZERO) deg F
> 
> The 50 to 86 deg F is room temp. Store them on a shelf in the basement (average is 64 to 74 degrees year round).



NiMH batteries retain their charge best at 32F with only about a 10% loss in charge over 1 month period. The same batteries will lose 70-80% of their charge in one month if stored at 114F. At room temperature you're looking at a 30% loss at one month of storage.

Shao


----------



## Flash-addict (Feb 12, 2007)

I placed my oreder for the l2d ce last monday on the 5th. just got off the phone with david chow (4sevens). right now one of the light shipments are in customs. the shipment is due to arrive on wensday and shipped immediatly same day. hope this helps for those who are waiting like i am.



MrFunk said:


> I speak about Fenix-store, I asked them several times for an order but with no reply.
> Maybe 4seven is under his gb of mail !


----------



## MrFunk (Feb 13, 2007)

I placed my order on 29 th January for 2 pcs P1DCE, usually after 10-12 days I'll receive them.
On 9 th February I received a mail from David telling me these : 
"We ran out of stock of the P1D CE Blacks and just got some it.
Your package shipped out today. I'm sorry for the delay.
David"

After 12 days the reply ! Then he told me he would ship with EMS to accelerate the time. Yesterday I asked him for EMS tracking number and that was the reply : 
"I emailed your other email saying that we did not pull the package in time and
it went out first class so we did not send again by ems. The p1dce and l2d ce areenroute and should arrive tomorrow.
david"

I don't know what to think probably he makes this why I'm from France and not from USA. I paid then I want to receive it or at least an e-mail if products are not available.
Worst service with me, I bought other times but this time he makes me crazy. I'm really disappointed because each week I have request from my friends to buy.


----------



## veleno (Feb 13, 2007)

Do you know if Lighthound has the L2D in stock? I ordered one, but I have still to receive the delivery confirmation (usually it arrives within 1-2 days).


----------



## coppertrail (Feb 13, 2007)

I was able to add one to my shopping cart. Generally, when an item is out of stock, you're unable to add the item to your cart. I'd put in an email to him, he's generally responds very quickly.


----------



## veleno (Feb 13, 2007)

coppertrail said:


> Generally, when an item is out of stock, you're unable to add the item to your cart.



Thanks for the answer. It's my first purchase since he renewed the website. I received only the order confirmation... :thinking: I'll contact him...


----------



## ruralott (Feb 13, 2007)

coppertrail said:


> I was able to add one to my shopping cart. Generally, when an item is out of stock, you're unable to add the item to your cart. I'd put in an email to him, he's generally responds very quickly.



I was able to add to the shopping cart. There was, however, a series of red *, indicating the item may be out of stock.

I bought the L2D-CE anyway, and my order status went from Processing to Back-order. Got the confirmation email but nothing else.


----------



## thelightdude (Feb 13, 2007)

veleno said:


> Do you know if Lighthound has the L2D in stock? I ordered one, but I have still to receive the delivery confirmation (usually it arrives within 1-2 days).



I sent Lighthound an email before I ordered one last Wed. He said it was in stock 

He shipped it the same day I placed the order. I got it Friday.


----------



## veleno (Feb 13, 2007)

Looking better the order confirmation I found a .txt file enclosed ohgeez, my L2D should be on the way. 

Thanks.


----------



## LNL40 (Feb 13, 2007)

Just got an email from the Fenix-store that my L2D CE has shipped. Ordered 2-11. I've only ordered 2 lights from David but both times he has shipped pretty fast. Now the long wait on the Postal Service.


----------



## Pla (Feb 13, 2007)

LNL40 said:


> Just got an email from the Fenix-store that my L2D CE has shipped. Ordered 2-11. I've only ordered 2 lights from David but both times he has shipped pretty fast. Now the long wait on the Postal Service.



You lucky...
I ordered on 2-5 and it was back-ordered just till today.
Hope it gets here before the weekend...


----------



## bill_n_opus (Feb 13, 2007)

Just got shipping confirmation today from David.


Looking forward to a new toy!


----------



## AtomSphere (Feb 14, 2007)

bill_n_opus said:


> Just got shipping confirmation today from David.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to a new toy!


 
+ 1 THERE


----------



## Flash-addict (Feb 14, 2007)

mine just shipped today too. thanks 4 7's


----------



## bill_n_opus (Feb 14, 2007)

AtomSphere said:


> + 1 THERE


 
I hear ya brother. 

Tonight, I was walking the dog and my kids after suppertime ... and it's dark at this point. I bring out my Fenix L2P. 

I'm thinking to myself "can't wait for Turbo mode!"

Sweetness in a bottle.


----------



## AtomSphere (Feb 14, 2007)

I haven't had this much excitment in waiting for a flashlight for a long time. I mean the L2D seems like the perfect one. Cheap and good products is not common to come across nowadays. I can't wait to shove in those 2700mAH batteries and play with the multi-level modes as if its some high tech expensive flashlight but its all that except that its affordable.
I still EDC my L2T too and whenever I see it, it reminds me of that L2D CE in a parcel heading my way.

Exciting....... Very Exciting!...........

*AtomSphere jumps up and down like a kid.



bill_n_opus said:


> I hear ya brother.
> 
> Tonight, I was walking the dog and my kids after suppertime ... and it's dark at this point. I bring out my Fenix L2P.
> 
> ...


----------



## fluff34567 (Feb 14, 2007)

sorry for the noob question but after having a read thru, are people saying we should NOT use lithium rechargeables as it will fry the LED and we should use 2600 / 2700mah nimh rechargeables instead??


----------



## Xygen (Feb 14, 2007)

fluff34567 said:


> sorry for the noob question but after having a read thru, are people saying we should NOT use lithium rechargeables as it will fry the LED and we should use 2600 / 2700mah nimh rechargeables instead??


Yes. But I think you mix two types of cells. there are 1.5V lithium-cells. These are *not* rechargeable and do not harm the LED. And there are rechargeable 3.7V Lithium-Ion cells. Using two of those will fry the LED for sure.  7.4V on a LED made for 3.0V is too much.
But how much capacity (2600/2700mah) your nimh have doesn't matter much. But a high capacity cell can stand the high current of turbo mode better. For me even a 1000mAh NiMh cell works absolutely fine!


----------



## fluff34567 (Feb 14, 2007)

hi Xygen, thankyou very much for the very quick reply!


----------



## cheeknowe (Feb 14, 2007)

I've been using my trusty L1P with a resistor mod. The L1D CE sounds really tempting, but I could really use a belt clip. Why a belt clip for the L0D and not the L1D or L2D?

Help!

Any machinist out there who's willing to sell product at fenix-store.com? Hey, no harm in asking


----------



## ernsanada (Feb 14, 2007)

cheeknowe said:


> I've been using my trusty L1P with a resistor mod. The L1D CE sounds really tempting, but I could really use a belt clip. Why a belt clip for the L0D and not the L1D or L2D?
> 
> Help!
> 
> Any machinist out there who's willing to sell product at fenix-store.com? Hey, no harm in asking



The L1D CE comes with a holster.


----------



## dqsl (Feb 15, 2007)

post deleted


----------



## dqsl (Feb 15, 2007)

Hi all
I'm new to this forum, so excuse me if what follows sounds a bit too noob:

Is it possible to directly swap the Luxeon III led in the Fenix L2T with a Cree XR-E 7090 without risking the life expectancy of the Cree?
I'm aware that the hole in the reflector needs to be widened, but other than that will a Cree led in a Luxeon reflector have any influence on the beam profile?

Thanks
Dang


----------



## Thujone (Feb 15, 2007)

cheeknowe said:


> I could really use a belt clip. Why a belt clip for the L0D and not the L1D or L2D?



:huh2:

Both products include a belt holster.


----------



## WildChild (Feb 15, 2007)

I use both the L2T and L2D on NiMH. When the lights dim, it is time to replace. I read around 0.9V-1V per cells after removed from load. The difference is brightness is quickly noticeable and it drops really fast!



UnknownVT said:


> *Stereodude* wrote: _"but I don't see anything about a .9V cutout on either Fenix's site, or the Fenix Store's page. I can only assume that if this was a big problem it would have surfaced on previous Fenix lights."_
> 
> Some simple logic - Since the heads of the L2Dce and L1Dce are the same and interechangeable - they _HAVE_ to be able to operate to as low as at least 1.1V (this is pretty marginal for _ONE_ single NiMH - 0.9V seems to me to be a much better lower limit......)
> 
> ...


----------



## yellow (Feb 15, 2007)

dqsl said:


> Is it possible to directly swap the Luxeon III led in the Fenix L2T with a Cree XR-E 7090 without risking


Better use a SSC, as these are quite similar to Lux in sizes and emitted beam.


----------



## stamat (Feb 15, 2007)

Question about window opening diameter - difference between L2D and L2T.
I have a L1T with a diffuser disk finely machined to match the bezel opening. It fits nicely in front the glass held with clear tape. 
From what I hear the L2D has a wider head. 
Is the window opening diameter also larger on L2D?
My question is about the visible diameter of the window/glass.
Could someone who has both lights can answer this.

Thanks,
S


----------



## TSD (Feb 15, 2007)

So my L2D CE is on its way, and something crossed my mind: Is the regulated output plot going to most closely resemble the L2P or the L2T? Both are wonderfully flat on NIMH, but on alkalines, the L2T plot shows a less stable regulation. I'm hoping for a flat regulation like the L2P (in all settings), and currently I'd like to think that's what I can expect since Fenix claims it is "Digitally Regulated for Constant Brightness," and they do not specify that this "constant brightness" applies for only NIMH batteries, as noted in their L2T product description. Has anyone tested this or heard anything concerning this issue?


----------



## Lobo (Feb 16, 2007)

TSD said:


> So my L2D CE is on its way, and something crossed my mind: Is the regulated output plot going to most closely resemble the L2P or the L2T? Both are wonderfully flat on NIMH, but on alkalines, the L2T plot shows a less stable regulation. I'm hoping for a flat regulation like the L2P (in all settings), and currently I'd like to think that's what I can expect since Fenix claims it is "Digitally Regulated for Constant Brightness," and they do not specify that this "constant brightness" applies for only NIMH batteries, as noted in their L2T product description. Has anyone tested this or heard anything concerning this issue?


 
If I remember correctly, Chao did some runtime tests in the review forum on the L1D(wheather it's performance is a sign of the regulation of the L2D, I cant say). The regulation on medium was very good on alkas, but not on high, but with nimh it was rulerflat on high also, like the l2p. But I'm not 100% sure, and I can't seem to find the nimh graph now, only the alkas on his review thread. I'm also looking for complete runtime charts for L1D and L2D, weird that none has done that yet.


----------



## chevrofreak (Feb 16, 2007)

Lobo said:


> I'm also looking for complete runtime charts for L1D and L2D, weird that none has done that yet.



With all the modes and different cells I'm using it is taking me a very long time.


----------



## bill_n_opus (Feb 16, 2007)

chevrofreak said:


> With all the modes and different cells I'm using it is taking me a very long time.


 
... and let me thank you in advance. :goodjob:


----------



## Pla (Feb 16, 2007)

Lobo said:


> If I remember correctly, Chao did some runtime tests in the review forum on the L1D(wheather it's performance is a sign of the regulation of the L2D, I cant say). The regulation on medium was very good on alkas, but not on high, but with nimh it was rulerflat on high also, like the l2p. But I'm not 100% sure, and I can't seem to find the nimh graph now, only the alkas on his review thread. I'm also looking for complete runtime charts for L1D and L2D, weird that none has done that yet.


Regulation on turbo demands 3W from a single batery (L1D CE) and a single alkaline cannot supply it.
However, 2 alkalines can supply twice the power, so L2D will be a lot better on high with alkalines then L1D.
If the battery cannot supply 3W, no regulator can add/generate the extra power needed.

This is the reason L1D is not rated 135 lumens although it has the same head as L2D.

NiMH can suply a lot more power than alkalines and that's the reason the output is flat curve - it get's the needed 3W.


----------



## AdamW (Feb 16, 2007)

The L2D CE I ordered from Fenix Store arrived today. For $55, this is an amazing light. It is significantly brighter than my MiniPro III T-bin MiniMag, same length/ smaller diameter light head, with the bonus of lower outputs if I want them.

I assumed I would need to find an aftermarket belt holster or DIY one, but I am pleased with the holster that came with the light. I need to add some stitching to make it ride a little higher on the belt (personal preference), but it securely holds the light, and most importantly, I can remove or return the the light with ONE HAND.

The light vaquely has the "ring" that is now famous on these forums. Not even an issue for me, since the light is in motion when I use it. White walls around here are safe! Besides, I never applied for my CPF white wall hunting permit...

I highly recommend this light!


----------



## fluff34567 (Feb 17, 2007)

a friend of mine has a ledlenser V² and it uses a 1.25w luxeon led, and that is FAR brighter than my L2D CE - i am a bit disapointed really.


----------



## cdosrun (Feb 17, 2007)

Fluff,

I have a Inretech Mag with a collimated 1.25w Luxeon and the L2D is more powerful in almost all modes. Is the LedLenser collimated into a very tight beam? If so, did you compare the whole beam profile of the two torches? Which mode was your L2D in and what sort of cells were you using?

Andrew


----------



## AdamW (Feb 17, 2007)

fluff34567 said:


> a friend of mine has a ledlenser V² and it uses a 1.25w luxeon led, and that is FAR brighter than my L2D CE - i am a bit disapointed really.



Shine both lights, one at a time, at a white ceiling in a room. Then look around. Your L2D CE will make the room brighter than the ledlenser.

There is more light coming out of your L2D CE than the ledlenser.


----------



## yellow (Feb 17, 2007)

never ever has a V² been brighter than even my L2P, L1T.
Your CE must be defective


----------



## 3rdDerivative (Feb 17, 2007)

Just got my L2D CE, pretty impressed for the relative cost - i.e. about 2x of MMag at Wal-Mart and much better built, levels and a lot brighter. As compared to my Inova T3 (about the same price I paid $55), the T3 seems to have better build quality, T3 has slightly bigger throw- bigger, more even, and slightly brighter. However overall lumens of T3 is much less. For Inova AA ($20), L2D CE is a lot more versatile. Never did like the plastic. Inova AA has better beam, long life, runs cool, low cost, adequate brightness for EDC. However, just to big for an AA light, IMHO.

For SF ED2/K1 head, SF built quality and beam quality, as suspected, excel. Otherwise, the L2D CE's AA', levels, throw and lumens makes one smile. And love the AA's.

For me, UI is ok. I would prefer to just click (or twist like U2) and drop the strobe and SOS. Beam quality looks poor on white wall test compared to other lights. In real use, beam quality is good, not great. High level mode( turbo) runs quite hot. Hope it does not reduced the life of flashlight.


----------



## Mike89 (Feb 21, 2007)

Just got mine today (from FenixStore). I can say I'm impressed as I always am with Fenix lights.

I have seen posted in this thread comments about 2 alkalines not supplying enough juice for turbo/135 lumens. This is simply not true. I have alkies in it and it's just as bright as my P1D CE at 135 lumens. The beams are a bit different but both do the job quite nicely. The so called rings don't bother me one bit, I don't notice it at all on either light. When I think of rings, I think of the Fenix E1. Now those are rings. These two lights are nothing like that.

I do like being able to have 135 lumens (turbo) with one click. That's always the one I want first, it was my biggest issue with the P1D CE, having to twist it twice to get it (plus it taking two hands). I would have been quite happy with just a single click 135 lumens and nothing else. If I want a low power read light, I have others that can do that. Gimme the Tim Taylor (aurh) full power and I'm good to go.

The click button is quite a bit different than the L1T/L2T. It has more resistance to it to push and gives a more pronounced 'click' sound.

The throw at 135 lumens of the L2D CE is about the same as the P1D CE. That was important to me as I like all the throw I can get. A good test I use for this is to go outside and choose a big pine tree. Estimating distances of approx 40 yds or so, I point each light at the top points of the tree against a black sky. I test the lights as far as they will throw to be able to clearly see the distinctive silhouette of a branch against the sky. It's a good test and the difference between say 80 lumens and 135 lumens is quite apparent.

Heat wise, the P1D CE gets a bit warmer than the L2D CE at highest setting.

Though I haven't tested it yet, I would think the L2D CE (with two alkalines) is going to run considerably longer than the P1D CE (with 1 cr123) at 135 lumens. Those cr123's don't last too long at full power.

All in all, a very nice light and I'm happy to own it.


----------



## L.E.D. (Feb 26, 2007)

*accidental double post


----------



## L.E.D. (Feb 26, 2007)

Just got one also. Wow, this 2AA light is decimating my 4AA Streamlight Propoly Lux with the L2D CE on max. On high the 4AA SL is about the same. Simply amazing. Luxeon, you better get your act straight and SOON!!!


----------



## bill_n_opus (Feb 26, 2007)

Just got mine ... stuck in 2 nimh and it's a nice, bright flashlight!

I do have to say that the beam quality of my l2p is really nice and uniform compared to this l2d-ce ... but it wasn't like I was wasn't warned about it. So far, so good. Don't think it's going to bother me at all. 

Too bad it's still light around here ... can't wait for it to go dark and be able to use it.  

I have one question that's probably already been answered previous in many threads:

what other accessories come with this light apart from the holster? None? 

For some reason, there's nothing else in the fenix box. No split ring, no extra O-ring, no fabric loop. 

Funny, my l2p and lop-se came with this stuff. 

Maybe I put it somewhere ... will have to search the floor.


----------



## Flash-addict (Feb 26, 2007)

bill_n_opus said:


> what other accessories come with this light apart from the holster? None?
> 
> For some reason, there's nothing else in the fenix box. No split ring, no extra O-ring, no fabric loop.
> 
> ...



your l2dce should have came with 2 spare o-rings, a wrist strap and an extra rubber clickie boot


----------



## bill_n_opus (Feb 26, 2007)

Flash-addict said:


> your l2dce should have came with 2 spare o-rings, a wrist strap and an extra rubber clickie boot


 
Found it! Yes, I did drop it on the floor somehow ... it's all good. 

Everything is in perfect order. :rock:


----------



## AtomSphere (Feb 26, 2007)

where do u live bill n opus?

I am trying to guess when would mine arrive. Damn i am excited about all the talk


----------



## bill_n_opus (Feb 26, 2007)

AtomSphere said:


> where do u live bill n opus?
> 
> I am trying to guess when would mine arrive. Damn i am excited about all the talk


 
Greater Vancouver area ... 

Yes, it's pretty bright. I'm a happy camper. I've already brought it to my boy's soccer practice tonight and flashing it around on the stage. I'm such a flashlight geek. 

SOS is interesting ... not sure whether i'll ever use it or not. I like the strobe actually. Very catchy. 

I also forgot that this light is dimmable. Very nice.


----------



## AtomSphere (Feb 26, 2007)

Woo Hooo... You know what this means? Within the next two days i should get mine too! YES YES YES!!! 

I am sure that I wouldn't be concentrating in classes till it arrives! Haven't been this excited for a long time



bill_n_opus said:


> Greater Vancouver area ...
> 
> Yes, it's pretty bright. I'm a happy camper. I've already brought it to my boy's soccer practice tonight and flashing it around on the stage. I'm such a flashlight geek.
> 
> ...


----------



## L.E.D. (Feb 27, 2007)

HAHAHAHA @ the L2D CE also apparently decimating a Surefire L2 5W, official specs from http://www.flashlightreviews.com !!! VERY nice. Now, all those previous naysayers of Cree that were saying Luxeon would always be on top, eat your hearts out and eat your words LOL. I have no doubt though that Luxeon can produce something on par with the XRE and wouldn't be surprised if it's already in the works.


----------



## Nic (Mar 23, 2007)

WildChild said:


> I think I have an idea of what cause the rings! It seems to me that it's the top of the metallic circle around the Cree dome that gets reflected but no light escape from it.


The Cree LED in the L2D CE seems to be recessed below the level of the reflector, unlike the luxeon LED in the standard version, which seem to be about level with the reflector. The beam width is narrower because of this and rings appear in the beam. The rings are noticeable, but not too annoying in normal use.


----------



## Luminescene (Mar 23, 2007)

Nic said:


> The Cree LED in the L2D CE seems to be recessed below the level of the reflector, unlike the luxeon LED in the standard version, which seem to be about level with the reflector. The beam width is narrower because of this and rings appear in the beam. The rings are noticeable, but not too annoying in normal use.


 
I noticed this too, if you refocus by unscrewing the reflector a little then it is even lower! The cree has a metal ring around it holding the dome lens on, you can see this if you remove the reflector, and so prevents the reflector from sitting lower, unless the reflector was much larger diameter and went round this ring. So I guess this is inevitable in a small torch. If you look at the cree running without the reflector you see a yellow colour tint at low angles. With the reflector you see this colour round the edge of the spill beam at very close range, so the reflector is catching some of this light, but not all.


----------



## cerbie (Mar 23, 2007)

I got mine today (shipped 3/21). Exceptionally ringy, even not on white walls. I didn't find the head difficult to take apart, so changed the focusing for a bit, and got it better, but it's still not exactly a lovely beam; but I think I'll just make it fuzzy. I've also already got nicks in the anodizing (it looks thick, so maybe it's crappy aluminum, not crappy HA?)!

I'd generally recommend the L2 over the L1, too. While it may not be too purty, it's actually quite comfy with the varying tube diameters, and knurling right where my fingers rest, and it makes it easy to move round with one hand, so going back to the switch to change modes and then going to a pen grip to point the light is easy. Of course it's not really short enough to be pocketable, if that's a major concern.

For a Chinese light, and the price, it's certainly fantastic, and should serve me well for some time. However, between the bit of aluminum showing (my Arc-P has survived being accidently thrown onto concrete without a scratch, and this just barely tapped the head of some pliers!), the switch, coming with a reflector that needs adjustment, etc., I can't just shower it with praise. The toy mode (strobe) also drives me nuts. *Tanstaafl*.

As far as the beam, I'm thinking my initial desire for a diffuser was on the money--it's bright enough and then some at all levels, and works great outside, so throw be damned. Of course, now I have to take it apart AGAIN, because I didn't measure the lens the first time.


----------



## LED_Thrift (Mar 23, 2007)

Just received my L2D-CE today that I got on B/S/T and I am a happy camper. It gives so much light from a small package. I'm going out for a walk now that it's dark. I don't think the rings will ever bother me in real-world usage. This will be a great camping/backpacking light.


----------



## sims2k (Mar 24, 2007)

Got my L2D-CE last week and I am very impressed with the amount of light coming from a small package. I wish the tube is bigger...something like the SF L2 that I also have. But I just love the low and turbo mode...since I use both modes at work.


----------



## TORCH_BOY (Mar 24, 2007)

I showed my to some people at work and one said how come so much light come out
of such a small package, another person replied this is brighter than my 6 volt Dolpin


----------



## L.E.D. (Mar 24, 2007)

How does one go about changing the tailswitch rubber cover if it in fact DOES break? By the way, also hearing about insane Luxeon LED's (Rebel) which may turn the tables once again. Is this truly another obsoleting event within just a few months of the Cree' LED's debut?? Wow, now illumination technology will start skipping ahead like computers did awhile back. After all, I read a claim on here that the maximum quantum efficiency would be around *400 lm/w. Would be interesting to see a 5D LED flashlight making car headlights look dim, or a 1AA LED light making a 5D incandescent dim... LOL

*(400 lm/w is a theoretical number assuming battery power applied only considering no added matter to energy conversions / other)


----------



## Gator762 (Mar 24, 2007)

I just got my L2D body for my L1D CE about an hour ago! :rock:

Wow this sucker is unbelieveably bright for two AA NiMH cells.

LOL at the new Luxeon - I can imagine the day when we'll be looking at our L2D like it's obsolete because we'll get 1000 lumens for hours out of a single AA cell.


----------



## cerbie (Mar 24, 2007)

There are two pits in the inside of the tail cap. Use needle-nose pliers or something to use them to unscrew that washer piece. There will then be a normal washer, a switch assembly, and the switch cover.

Who knows, as far as what's ahead (OK, who that isn't under an NDA knows)? Something will come out and beat the Cree lights. It'll be nice if it's Philips, as their warm tints look really nice to my eye. For some time, you can be garuanteed that something will be around the corner to beat what you have in performance. Whether it obsoletes it is a matter of opinion and need. But don't worry, Fenix will be fast to market with one of those New Shiney Things™, too.


----------



## FloggedSynapse (Mar 30, 2007)

Got my L2D-CE today. I'm in love. Had to dust off the Ni-MH rechargeables before putting the light through its paces. I've got it on medium now, tail-standing on my computer desk as a lamp. 

Build quality on mine is good - no loose threads, and the output is not 'ringy' at all - just hotspot + flood. Light is a clean & elegant white, even on the low settings. You can't go wrong with this light. Amazing how many lumens this little thing can kick out on the turbo setting. These new LED lights are mighty mites.

{EDIT} Just wanted to add, this would make an excellent 'emergency' light to have stashed in the house. The low output is amazing.. a useful amount of light, and you get close to 60 hours of light on low, even using alkaline batteries. The high mode kicks, but low is the best 'bang-for-the-buck' (or watt) and it's where the LED operates most efficiently


----------



## vic2367 (Apr 22, 2007)

newbie here,,,put in a rechargeable 14500 3.7 v battery in my l2d-ce ,,,after about 5 mins of continuas use my rubber tailcap blows up like a baloon ,,,is this because of the 3.7 v ? this is a great like by the way,,,ive had mine for about 3 weeks ,,,its my go to /edc light right now,,


----------



## chevrofreak (Apr 23, 2007)

vic2367 said:


> newbie here,,,put in a rechargeable 14500 3.7 v battery in my l2d-ce ,,,after about 5 mins of continuas use my rubber tailcap blows up like a baloon ,,,is this because of the 3.7 v ? this is a great like by the way,,,ive had mine for about 3 weeks ,,,its my go to /edc light right now,,



You used 1 14500? What did you use to fill up the other space?


----------



## mtn_dance (Apr 23, 2007)

chevrofreak said:


> You used 1 14500? What did you use to fill up the other space?


This thread:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=162317

This post:
http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1981862&postcount=7

He used a discharged cell. I suspect he is lucky to have his fingers, hands, and maybe his life.


----------



## chevrofreak (Apr 23, 2007)

mtn_dance said:


> This thread:
> http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=162317
> 
> This post:
> ...



That's exactly what I suspected he did. Definately not a smart thing to do.


----------

