# Please help me pick some lathe tooling.



## Mirage_Man (Oct 29, 2006)

Well Guys I have been busy getting my Heavy 10 into shape. It required quite a bit to get her ready for action. But now she's just about set. All I have left is to track down the reason for a wobble in the countershaft cone pulley. I can run it this way it is but I want her to run as smooth as possible.

Anyway, I have been gathering a few necessities such as a QCTP (Phase II AXA), live and dead centers, collet closer, threading dial etc... Now I'm looking at the cutting tools that came with the lathe and they seem quite out of place. They are mostly HSS and a few brazed on carbide bits. I can use them for basic turning and facing operations. However I lack in the boring, grooving and threading tool area.

I have been looking for indexable tooling at the online tooling dealers like J&L, Enco, MSC, and KBC. There are soooo many options it makes my head spin! :sick2: I am having a really hard time deciding what to get. Not to mention how dang expensive they are .

I would like to be able to fin [email protected] heads so I need a grooving tool able to go in at least 1/2" to 5/8". I want to be able to bore the inside [email protected] D bodies for use with the thicker rechargable cells. Finally inside and outside threading. For right now my usage will be fairly limited to [email protected] but I will eventaully branch out into the smaller lights as well. I'm not a rich man so budget definitely plays a role. I will however spend more on something that will last and not cause frustration like some cheap crap does.

So any old pros care to give some guidance to the new guy on the block?? Please!! 

MM


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## gadget_lover (Oct 29, 2006)

With the QCTP you can use a wide variety of indexable tool holders. I don;t know the conventinal wisdom, but I think it's to get as big as you can handle (shank size) to maximize the rigidity. Enco frequentky has good sales. I bought a set of 5 from them (3/8 inch shaft for an HF 7x10 ) for under $40. They came without inserts, Figure $2 to $5 per insert.

For deep grooves you may have to make your own tools or using parting tools.

Not a pro, just another tinkerer.

Daniel


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## highorder (Oct 29, 2006)

+1 on making your own tools. I stumbled onto a box of 1/2 x 1/2 x 4" M42 tool blanks, and they may last me forever! I have ground them into anything you can imagine:

OD threading
ID threading
turning 
facing
boring
parting
grooving

and most importantly, FORM TOOLS!

carbide indexable tooling looses its advantages in prototype or short run work. I think HSS cuts Aluminum better as well (just have plenty of kerosene handy.)


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## Anglepoise (Oct 29, 2006)

MM
My lathe is close to your in size.
I use indexable carbide and HSS inserts where ever possible.

Have a good look around this site Site 

For all my internal boring and grooving I use solid carbide inserts and individual tools. For external grooving and parting off, HSS is fine.

90% of external turning is with carbide, triangle inserts, TPMR 222.

For internal and external threading, HSS is fine.

Personally I think that first class American made stuff is the way to go. I do not skimp on tooling. 
When you are working internally on a thin wall part and you need a groove for an 'O' ring, it is so nice to pick up the correct tool and get the job done. No fuse, no chatter, no breakage......and a precision groove width right first time.


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## Mirage_Man (Oct 29, 2006)

Does anyone have any specific part numbers they can recommend? The largest shank my tool holders can take is 1/2" but I can always mill down the shank on a larger one to fit if necessary.

MM


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## TranquillityBase (Oct 29, 2006)

Here's a good starting point Brian.

McMaster.com

Carbide-Insert Lathe Tools 3240A126

There's also a pre-ground HSS set that would be great for aluminum, same page as the above part number.


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## PhotonFanatic (Oct 29, 2006)

_Does anyone have any specific part numbers they can recommend? The largest shank my tool holders can take is 1/2" but I can always mill down the shank on a larger one to fit if necessary._

_MM_
__ 
I'd suggest that you buy the correct size for your QCTP--do not cut down a bigger shank to fit--that can weaken the tool.

As for tooling, it boils down to whether you are willing and capable of shaping and sharpening your tools, or not. If not, then indexable inserts might be the easy way to go. There are a ton of them for sale on eBay, along with various toolholders, also.


If you want to shape and sharpen your own tools, then something like the AccuFinish diamond polisher is great to have, in addition to your bench grinder for shaping.


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## Mirage_Man (Oct 29, 2006)

TranquillityBase said:


> Here's a good starting point Brian.
> 
> McMaster.com
> 
> ...



Scott are those $70 better than the ones that can be had from the Enco sales flyer? Here they are in the regular catalog.

Also I still need deep grooving tooling. The only available tooling I have seen for that type is limited to 5/8" shanks and up.


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## TranquillityBase (Oct 29, 2006)

I ordered one of the import sets from a local supplier, and they were really garbage...so yes the extra $70 is money well spent.

The popular 5 piece sets are a great starting point for very little money, a $100 to $120 is very little for 5 'loaded' holders...Get the USA made...if you decide to get one of these sets.

TB


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## cmacclel (Oct 29, 2006)

What I use

Inside threading $30

http://www.wttool.com/category-exec/category_id/13962

Cut-Off $34

http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/31970

Outside threading $12

Same style but Micro-100 brand

http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/12344


For a boring bare I use a indexible 5/8ths diameter with carbide inserts.

$34

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=948863&PMAKA=377-1010

From now on I exclusively use Micro100 tooling as I believe it is one of the best and is priced reasonable. Last week I dropped $125 on a grooving bit holder and 4 inserts  Thanks TB!



Mac


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## TranquillityBase (Oct 29, 2006)

You should be able to use the 5/8" shank with your QCTP, the tool holder will just be locked in a lower position on the post...If the QCTP is sized properly, the holders will be locked in the middle of the post when you're using 1/2" shank tool holders/HSS blanks, on center...and there should be enough room to drop down on the post for the 5/8"?

If you do find good ebay deals on larger sized tool holders, and they're good quality...you would have to have them ground down on a surface grinder...High quality holders are very hard...My Kaiser grooving tool holder doesn't have any marks from the tool holder set screws (that I can feel with my fingers)...and I crazy tighten them...enough that I've stripped the hex broach on more than one screw. 

Heavy cuts can and will cause QCTP and inserts to creep, bigger is better in this case.

TB


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## TranquillityBase (Oct 29, 2006)

Expensive or inexpensive, you will end up with tools that you don't or hardly ever use...the 'why did I buy that stuff' that ends up collecting dust...You just wont know which tools will end up in that pile, until you get rolling, and find your groove with the machine.

Here's the 'what if I could buy everything new again'....





This would be the name on all my tool holders, the quality is unbelievable...even the laser etching is perfect. This company will also custom grind HSS and carbide. 

I can take very aggressive cuts with this particular tool and the insert doesn't creep.


TB


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## Mirage_Man (Oct 29, 2006)

> You should be able to use the 5/8" shank with your QCTP, the tool holder will just be locked in a lower position on the post



The AXA holders only allow for 1/2" shanks. Are you saying that I can use a BXA holder in my AXA tool post? The wedges would have to be the same for both. If this is the case then I am stoked!

MM


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## TranquillityBase (Oct 29, 2006)

That I'm not sure about?


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## Mirage_Man (Oct 29, 2006)

TranquillityBase said:


> That I'm not sure about?



Yeah I'm afraid they won't. So I am stuck with 1/2" shanks or cutting down larger shanks to fit. I have a mchinist friend that has cut quite a few larger shanks down to fit his tool holders with no ill results.

Heck I suppose I could have him make me some holders that fit my post that will accept larger shanks.


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## Mirage_Man (Oct 29, 2006)

I was just looking at Aloris's catalog and it looks like they sell an AXA tool holder that accepts a 5/8" shank. Maybe that woul dbe the route to go?


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## TranquillityBase (Oct 29, 2006)

I wasn't sure which one to buy at the time...I picked the B series for the larger tool capacity, the A series is up to 12" swing, and the B is 10" to 15" swing. I don't know if the post is the same for both?

TB


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## Mirage_Man (Oct 30, 2006)

TranquillityBase said:


> I wasn't sure which one to buy at the time...I picked the B series for the larger tool capacity, the A series is up to 12" swing, and the B is 10" to 15" swing. I don't know if the post is the same for both?
> 
> TB



The post dimensions are different. I bought the AXA size because everyone said the BXA would be too big for my lathe. Now I wish I had bought the BXA . Lesson learned. I guess I have to deal with what I have for now.


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## Anglepoise (Oct 30, 2006)

I have been very happy with the Kaiser ( Thin Bit ) range of products and I am slowly replacing worn out items with this brand.

Picture below is of two solid carbide internal grooving tools. One 0.040" and the other 0.080". Small one GT51B040R and large one GT51B080R.

Both these are 5/16ths shaft diameter and fit in holders. $37.50 each and to me worth double for what they do so easily.

Also for Aluminum, well lubed with Kerosene, there is so little wear. Should last me out.


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## olephart (Oct 30, 2006)

Lot's of good recommendations here. I think I will try a few of them. I have several APT boring bars and have not been happy with them. The bit retention screw strips on a regular basis.

My experience is that using tools larger than those designed for the lathe is not very cost effetcive.

Seems like when I try cutting down a larger tool, it just magnifies another weak area - no net gain.

I think Carbide tooling is another, but related issue. It works good, but not great in many small lathe applications. You really need some serious rigidity for this type tooling to excell.

It's hard to beat HSS bits in a small lathe. I use both types, but think I would have to use properly ground HSS on my small lathe if I could only choose one type.

If you are blessed with a really tight & rigid lathe, you can use indexed tools without any issues. Mine is >45 years old and getting tired.

In any case, the tools selected will not make a real difference. They can make things easier, but the skill (and cunning) of the machine operator will determine the ultimate result.

Best of luck to all of you. The flash light addiction seems pale to the $$$ you can spend on machine tols.


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## will (Oct 31, 2006)

I have a mini lathe - I cut mostly aluminum and wood on it. I use mostly HSS bits that I have ground down myself. I do use a carbide internal threading tool that I bought. I made my own boring tools. 

for a complete line up of machine tools - try MSC Industrial


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