# Can someone please explain what the 4 die CREE XLamp MC-E LED is? Is this new or... ?



## FliGuyRyan (Oct 12, 2008)

Again... what's the 4 die CREE XLamp MC-E LED? And does this compete with the P7?

That's all,
RC


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## PhantomPhoton (Oct 12, 2008)

It is essentially 4 of the current XR-E emitters placed into a single package. Yes it is a direct competitor to the SSC P7.

PDF Specs Here.  Plenty of info over in the LED section.


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## LEDninja (Oct 13, 2008)

A couple of threads on this already.

Quad cree led !
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/198865

Cree MC-E Prices
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201605

Plans for the MC-E
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/204439


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## Endeavour (Oct 13, 2008)

RC: The MC-E is basically what you described it as. It has four XR-E dies that are individually addressable, so you can drive the LED either in series or in parallel (or a combination thereof) as you see fit. It's a relatively new part, production pieces have been trickling out since the end of September.

The P7 from Seoul Semiconductor uses the EZ-1000 die made by Cree as their light source, but they put their own phosphor atop the die, and have it set up in a parallel configuration.

The MC-E is very nice if you have a light that used the XR-E7090 part from Cree, since this is the exact same package size and would be fairly easy to retrofit into a light that was designed for the other part, and you could drive it at full spec by replacing the driver.

I have a few MC-Es available myself here:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209463

-Enrique


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## Nos (Oct 15, 2008)

you can order at leds.de and led-tech.de

all are in stock and shipped out right away  

my plan to post the first mag mce mod failed......had a short and the shark fried a die


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 19, 2008)

If run in same parallel arangement as the Lux V and used in, for example, a U2, would the battery draw be essentially the same as the Lux V. The Lux V in my U2 pulls 1.5amps from the battery on highest level, 6 using an 18650 Li-Ion. A low vf Lux V might be about 6 volts at 750mA's total to the four die LED.

Bill

Bill


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## Robocop (Oct 20, 2008)

Ok please forgive me for coming late to this discussion however I have read over the links provided and I am still a little vague. I am not much on tech stuff so I will ask this the only way I know how to and that is by using old school terms......by looking at this new product on the outside it looks like a fancy version of the 5 watt Lux. Basically it is 4 dies however it is wired differently. 

From what I understand the old 5 watt was also 4 dies however they all ran at the same time regardless of how you powered them or wired them...right?

Ok if I understand correct this Cree has 4 dies that can be powered seperately or all together if one wishes to do so. Could this be considered a 5 watt Cree or is it entirely different than the 5 Watt lumileds lux?

My question is that I have a wonderful TW4 that I power from a rechargeable cell using a VG1 body. I have swapped out the Lux for a better tinted 5 watt however I wonder how this new emitter will do in a single cell application such as my TW4?....can it be done based on what we know about this new emitter so far?

From the links I read I did not see any discussion of a high power single cell application nor did I see any compare this to the only multi die emitter that I am familiar with and that is the LuxV.......thanks for filling me in on this.


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## LEDninja (Oct 20, 2008)

I am not familiar with a TW4/VG1.

The Lux V is a 7.2 volt LED. It is a difficult LED to replace as most other LEDs are 3.6V. The MCE can be wired 3.6 or 7.2 or 14.4V so in theory if you wire it 2S2P for 7.2 V it can replace the Lux V.

I see 2 problems using the MCE to replace the LuxV.
1)
The 2S2P wiring on the LuxV is done internally by Lumileds. With the MCE you will have to wire it yourself to the tiny lugs on the LED. If the TW4 uses a star you can get the MCE mounted on a star from Cutter (welight on CPFMP). Wiring from the pads on the star is probably a lot easier.
Note the MCE on a star from DX is wired for 3.6V and the bare stars are wired for 14V - no good.
2)
The bigger problem with the Cree LEDs is they are shaped differently from the Luxeons and the focus location is different. So there are fit and focus problems.


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## Illum (Oct 20, 2008)

I've always wondered about the SSC P7 versus the MC-E as well...for one thing the emitter dies in the SSC P7 looked a little too similar to those in CREEs from way back since the P4s, 4 rectangles laid out in a square-missing-two-corner shape. 

Why the similarity when the rest of the SSC line staring from the USWOLs looked significantly different than those of CREE?

heres pics of the LEDs alongside each other
left to right: SSC P7, CREE MC-E, CREE Q5, Osram golden deagon, Luxeon V



note that the MC-E has 8 pins total, individually serviceable emitters

for reference, P7 versus P4




MC-E pic, [pic rehosted from cache, pics are from mds82 recently deleted due to oversized pics]




SSC P7 closeup [pic rehosted from: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/194447]




SC P7 closeup [pic rehosted from Kaidomain]


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## thegeek (Oct 20, 2008)

Robocop said:


> My question is that I have a wonderful TW4 that I power from a rechargeable cell using a VG1 body. I have swapped out the Lux for a better tinted 5 watt however I wonder how this new emitter will do in a single cell application such as my TW4?....can it be done based on what we know about this new emitter so far?
> 
> From the links I read I did not see any discussion of a high power single cell application nor did I see any compare this to the only multi die emitter that I am familiar with and that is the LuxV.......thanks for filling me in on this.



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/210173

That should answer most of the questions. In short, yes, the MC-E can be a direct replacement for a LuxV. If you have enough room and wire it correctly. For the case of the KL4, any cell configuration that would run the original led should run the MC-E, as the driver remains the same.


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## PhantomPhoton (Oct 20, 2008)

Illum_the_nation said:


> I've always wondered about the SSC P7 versus the MC-E as well...for one thing the emitter dies in the SSC P7 looked a little too similar to those in CREEs from way back since the P4s, 4 rectangles laid out in a square-missing-two-corner shape.
> 
> Why the similarity when the rest of the SSC line staring from the USWOLs looked significantly different than those of CREE?



That's because SSC doesn't manufacture their own dice. They buy Cree dice (blue leds essentially) and apply their own phosphor for the P4 and (I assume) P7 LEDs. So yes they do look similar because they are similar.


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## phantom23 (Oct 20, 2008)

PhantomPhoton said:


> That's because SSC doesn't manufacture their own dice. They buy Cree dice (blue leds essentially) and apply their own phosphor for the P4 and (I assume) P7 LEDs. So yes they do look similar because they are similar.



And that's why they have similar performance (in theory). Old P7 C bin (740-900lm) reached [email protected],8A without any problems a few months ago.


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## Endeavour (Oct 20, 2008)

Robocop said:


> My question is that I have a wonderful TW4 that I power from a rechargeable cell using a VG1 body. I have swapped out the Lux for a better tinted 5 watt however I wonder how this new emitter will do in a single cell application such as my TW4?....can it be done based on what we know about this new emitter so far?
> 
> From the links I read I did not see any discussion of a high power single cell application nor did I see any compare this to the only multi die emitter that I am familiar with and that is the LuxV.......thanks for filling me in on this.



Running a high power LED like a Luxeon V or this Cree MC-E off of a single cell is a rather foolhardy thing to do, the amount of power being drawn from the battery to power the light is dangerous to do for any reasonable period of time and you run the risk of having your cell explode - I speak from experience as I've come close to explosions and had batteries vent on me having done just that while experimenting in the past.

Now, as to whether or not it can be done - sure. Wire the MC-E in a 2-series-2-parallel configuration and you've got a modern day Luxeon V equivalent, but mechanically you'll have to figure out how to make it all fit in a host designed for a different LED. It is possible, though.


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## Illum (Oct 20, 2008)

PhantomPhoton said:


> That's because SSC doesn't manufacture their own dice. They buy Cree dice (blue leds essentially) and apply their own phosphor for the P4 and (I assume) P7 LEDs. So yes they do look similar because they are similar.



hmm...so who did SSC buy from before the P7?


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## spencer (Oct 20, 2008)

They bought from Cree for the P4's too I believe. Before the P7.


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## Illum (Oct 20, 2008)

SSC P4 [pic rehosted from: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/seoulmy.htm ]




CREE XR-E P4 [pic rehosted from: http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/creexre.htm ]




spencer, you are correct sir!


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## Robocop (Oct 21, 2008)

Knowing CPF the way I do I am sure ,regardless of the pros and cons, that someone will attempt to drive this emitter with a single cell. I again do not know much tech stuff however tech stuff and limitations have never stopped some modders in the past.

One thing is for sure this should breath a little new life into our shared hobby. It does look to be a great product even if thus far it is untested in many applications.


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## LEDninja (Oct 21, 2008)

Endeavour said:


> Running a high power LED like a Luxeon V or this Cree MC-E off of a single cell is a rather foolhardy thing to do, the amount of power being drawn from the battery to power the light is dangerous to do for any reasonable period of time and you run the risk of having your cell explode - I speak from experience as I've come close to explosions and had batteries vent on me having done just that while experimenting in the past.
> 
> Now, as to whether or not it can be done - sure. Wire the MC-E in a 2-series-2-parallel configuration and you've got a modern day Luxeon V equivalent, but mechanically you'll have to figure out how to make it all fit in a host designed for a different LED. It is possible, though.


This is a problem if you DD or otherwise overdrive the battery. If you use a driver that pulls under 1000 mA from the battery, it is no problem running from a CR/RCR123A.


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## Bullzeyebill (Oct 21, 2008)

LEDninja said:


> This is a problem if you DD or otherwise overdrive the battery. If you use a driver that pulls under 1000 mA from the battery, it is no problem running from a CR/RCR123A.



I can be a little hard on unprotected RCR123's. One of them in a KL4, or KL5 will pull up to 1.40 amps. Run the AW RCR123, if you are concerned about mishaps; run time will suffer, compared to a good Powerizer unprotected RCR123, but then again you will have to monitor them carefully.

Bill


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## thegeek (Oct 21, 2008)

Endeavour said:


> Running a high power LED like a Luxeon V or this Cree MC-E off of a single cell is a rather foolhardy thing to do, the amount of power being drawn from the battery to power the light is dangerous to do for any reasonable period of time and you run the risk of having your cell explode - I speak from experience as I've come close to explosions and had batteries vent on me having done just that while experimenting in the past.
> 
> Now, as to whether or not it can be done - sure. Wire the MC-E in a 2-series-2-parallel configuration and you've got a modern day Luxeon V equivalent, but mechanically you'll have to figure out how to make it all fit in a host designed for a different LED. It is possible, though.




AW's new IMR cells are the solution. I believe it was recommended to keep the draw at 4A or less for the IMR16340. Plenty of juice to run an MC-E to spec, just not for very long. :laughing:


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## GarageBoy (Nov 1, 2008)

Endeavour said:


> Running a high power LED like a Luxeon V or this Cree MC-E off of a single cell is a rather foolhardy thing to do, the amount of power being drawn from the battery to power the light is dangerous to do for any reasonable period of time and you run the risk of having your cell explode - I speak from experience as I've come close to explosions and had batteries vent on me having done just that while experimenting in the past.
> 
> Now, as to whether or not it can be done - sure. Wire the MC-E in a 2-series-2-parallel configuration and you've got a modern day Luxeon V equivalent, but mechanically you'll have to figure out how to make it all fit in a host designed for a different LED. It is possible, though.


Back when I ran the TW4 set up, it was drawing about 1.2 amps or less (if I remember correctly) Sure, kinda power hungry, but boy is that beam pattern behind a short reflector beautiful


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## yellow (Nov 2, 2008)

FliGuyRyan said:


> Again... what's the 4 die CREE XLamp MC-E LED? And does this compete with the P7?


well, 
if one sees the MC-E as a quad-die, parallel wired multichip-led, it is a direct competitor of the P7,
if one sees it as a 2 parallel of 2 series wired strings, then it is a direct competitor of the LuxV (but with the actual double efficient emitters)
but actually it is
*1st:* way smaller than the Seoul P7, so nearly every existing focusing device for the XR-E will work good (giving a wider beam of course, as the size of the glowing surface is larger) and, 
*2nd:* is simply perfect when wired in series --> better for the individual led dies than parallel wiring AND (most important) there are tested and proven step-up driver circuits avilable for some time now, while for quad-die parallel there are no good drivers and if there are some made, they are much larger because the higher current needs the parts to be larger.


(PS: and it is made from Cree and not Seoul, which means, no matter what document data marketing dept. posts, it works better. 
But that is just my totally unscientific sight of things, found while modding around with P4s and XR-Es, where the P4 always was a reason for granted trouble and disappointment. I still use the Seouls when emitter swapping simply is not possible with a Cree for whatever reason, but the XR-E mods are several steps better)


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## Bullzeyebill (Nov 2, 2008)

yellow, step up converters work well with the Lux V type arrangement of the emitters, and lots of those setups around, but running the four emitters in series would take step down, right? Maybe I read your post wrong.

Bill


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