# Audi R8 Headlights



## gallonoffuel (Jun 2, 2008)

This belongs in the automotive section as much as here, but since I figured the LED gurus could speculate better I stuck it here. Searched but didn't see any other threads on it.

Audi R8 to offer full LED headlights

Anyone wanna speculate what sort of configuration they're running here? I couldn't find any information on the manufacturer of the lamps. I suspect they're using some sort of optic to get the beam pattern of a conventional headlight, and probably multiple LED's to get both the throw and flood.


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## rizky_p (Jun 2, 2008)

gallonoffuel said:


> This belongs in the automotive section as much as here, but since I figured the LED gurus could speculate better I stuck it here. Searched but didn't see any other threads on it.
> 
> Audi R8 to offer full LED headlights
> 
> Anyone wanna speculate what sort of configuration they're running here? I couldn't find any information on the manufacturer of the lamps. I suspect they're using some sort of optic to get the beam pattern of a conventional headlight, and probably multiple LED's to get both the throw and flood.



I am wondering on the design of the reflectors/optics with multi LEDs.


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## MikeSalt (Jun 2, 2008)

> Audi claims that LEDs more accurately replicate sunlight, giving drivers better overall night vision



I find this hard to believe. Well-driven incandescent lights are much closer to sunlight than any LED that I have seen. Also, what happens in fog? Audi drivers will be driving blind with all the light bouncing straight back at them.



> cars equipped with LED lights will save about a gallon of gas a week compared to a car equipped with traditional lights



That I find a bit tough to believe too. I shall go through the physics later on and see if that is viable.


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## PhantomPhoton (Jun 2, 2008)

I agree the marketing department was hard at work on that article. :shakehead

And ~$17,000? Wow that's probably the most expensive LED light I've seen at $8,500 apiece. 
I do wonder what LEDs they are using as well as what optics solution they've come up with.


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## taschenlampe (Jun 2, 2008)

rizky_p said:


> I am wondering on the design of the reflectors/optics with multi LEDs.


 
Link 1
Link 2


tl


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## vincebdx (Jun 2, 2008)

54 Luxeon K2


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## cryhavok (Jun 2, 2008)

Lexus LS600h already has LED headlamps






http://youtube.com/watch?v=rjQ8oqWKZi4&feature=related


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## Daekar (Jun 2, 2008)

vincebdx said:


> 54 Luxeon K2


 
No wonder they cost so much! They would've been better off with Ostars... I'm sure they're kicking themselves now that things like the P7 and 4-core Cree are out...

Of course... if the CRI/temperature/spectrum aren't pretty great, they would've been better off with HIR bulbs and decent wiring...


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## IMSabbel (Jun 2, 2008)

I think they are playing very conservative there.
Just think about the Rebel thing... Something like that would be cause for a recall of the car, costing millions worth of publicity.

Also note how low they drive the leds.


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## Opto-King (Jun 3, 2008)

vincebdx said:


> 54 Luxeon K2


Nice pictures, but the one to the left is NOT a K2 LED it's more like a P4 SSC LED....:wave:


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## d1dd1 (Jun 3, 2008)

"Blinkleuchte" is only the direction indicator, so I'm not sure if they use the K2s also for the headlight.
The screenshot just says they are using 8x yellow Luxeon K2 in the direction indicator


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## mds82 (Jun 3, 2008)

I was thinking of making myself a set of LED fog lights, using 4x cree MC-E's once then become available. It would be a very simple design, 4 led's in a row with a mirror directly above the Led facing 90 degrees ( to make the cutoff pattern). this way none of the light will project upwards and all of light will project in a wide angle forward


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## frenzee (Jun 5, 2008)

Not sure about R8, but I think the A8 uses Lux IIIs.


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## yellow (Jun 5, 2008)

how long till the ppl from the car forums ask us here for "how to emitter swap"-guides?


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## 9volt (Jun 5, 2008)

yellow said:


> how long till the ppl from the car forums ask us here for "how to emitter swap"-guides?



That would be pretty funny. Once this tech gets down to the more entry level cars like the 3 series and the A4 there will probably be a huge market for aftermarket emitter swaps.


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## coolwaters (Jun 25, 2008)

$7k for LEDs? is it legal for use to mod our headlights?


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## abarth_1200 (Jul 11, 2008)

is'nt there a legal limit on the amount of light your headlight can produce so as not to blind oncoming traffic, i think its 55W for dipped beam on your standard halogen lamps i duno what it is, if its the same for xenons.

if this is the case swapping emitters might be illegal, number one reason to swap an emitter-to get more light.

it does make sense to ditch halogen bulbs in favour of LED but there would need to be some sort of limit to the light levels


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## coolwaters (Jul 12, 2008)

well i did some research and DOT doesnt approve on any mods...stupid people just want to make some money off us...


dont think theres a limit since theres 100w HIDs out there. but they say you have to aim them lower or you'll get a fat ticket.


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## LukeA (Jul 12, 2008)

coolwaters said:


> well i did some research and DOT doesnt approve on any mods...stupid people just want to make some money off us...
> 
> 
> dont think theres a limit since theres 100w HIDs out there. but they say you have to aim them lower or you'll get a fat ticket.



Those are still illegal.


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## c0t0d0s0 (Jul 12, 2008)

I don't like the trend. I have no problems with LEDs used as daytime running lights, where color rendition is irrelevant, but in my opinion, replacing main headlights with LEDs is a very, very bad idea with current generation LEDs.

I do a lot of driving in deer country. My low beams are HIDs, my high beams are halogen. There is NO WAY I'm going to give up my halogen high beams for LEDs, no matter how cool they are. I want to be able to see deer in foliage on the side of the road as far as possible, and nothing - not even HID - beats oldschool halogen bulbs for that purpose. LEDs with their red-deficient spectrum just SUCK for deer identification. It's a sad fact of life. LED headlights will also suck for driving in rain and fog. Blinding effect on other drivers will also be more pronounced. Not many people realize that right now.

Unless car manufacturers specifically use high CRI LEDs for headlights - which is not going to happen because they're going for higher efficiency and that ricer blue look - it's going to become a serious safety issue. Mark my words. :thumbsdow


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## LukeA (Jul 12, 2008)

c0t0d0s0 said:


> I don't like the trend. I have no problems with LEDs used as daytime running lights, where color rendition is irrelevant, but in my opinion, replacing main headlights with LEDs is a very, very bad idea with current generation LEDs.
> 
> I do a lot of driving in deer country. My low beams are HIDs, my high beams are halogen. There is NO WAY I'm going to give up my halogen high beams for LEDs, no matter how cool they are. I want to be able to see deer in foliage on the side of the road as far as possible, and nothing - not even HID - beats oldschool halogen bulbs for that purpose. LEDs with their red-deficient spectrum just SUCK for deer identification. It's a sad fact of life. LED headlights will also suck for driving in rain and fog. Blinding effect on other drivers will also be more pronounced. Not many people realize that right now.
> 
> Unless car manufacturers specifically use high CRI LEDs for headlights - which is not going to happen because they're going for higher efficiency and that ricer blue look - it's going to become a serious safety issue. Mark my words. :thumbsdow



You're behind the times. LEDs have come very far.

When have you ever seen a set of stock headlights over 4500K? Never. No manufacturer 'is going after that ricer look' and efficiency suffers above 4500K for HID.


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## c0t0d0s0 (Jul 12, 2008)

Oh yeah? Please tell me what LEDs are comparable to incandescents in color rendition and how efficient they are.

Obviously, the designers of that thing were more concerned with the cool factor than with accurate color rendition, no matter what their marketing literature says (6000K color temperature that supposedly closely replicates sunlight, giving the drivers better night vision... riiiiiiight). In my opinion, this is inexcusable, especially considering the price of these headlights.


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## LukeA (Jul 12, 2008)

c0t0d0s0 said:


> Oh yeah? Please tell me what LEDs are comparable to incandescents in color rendition and how efficient they are.



The Cree LR6 fixture contains an LED (most likely a warm white MC-E) that produces over 650 lumens from 12 watts. That's including the inefficiency of converting 120VAC down to low voltage DC. With a CRI of 92.


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## R33E8 (Jul 13, 2008)

LukeA said:


> The Cree LR6 fixture contains an LED (most likely a warm white MC-E) that produces over 650 lumens from 12 watts. That's including the inefficiency of converting 120VAC down to low voltage DC. With a CRI of 92.



I think I figured it out.. 

http://www.ledsmagazine.com/news/4/11/32

The CEO I think of Cree left Cree to form Led Lighting Fixtures.. They made this warm light set up using yellow or red phosphor converted blue leds and a few other leds to make so many lumens... Cree recently bought them and may be using this patented technology in this fixture...


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## blasterman (Jul 17, 2008)

> Please tell me what LEDs are comparable to incandescents in color rendition and how efficient they are.


 
When has color rendition mattered when I'm driving at 75mph at night? Am I suddenly going to pull out my pantone swatch kit and critique the paint of the stop sign?

5500-6500k is most sensitive spectra that the human eye can see, so it makes sense to have most of your energy emission here. Xenon headlamps, which are basically a modified and marketed halogen bulb in the first place, just use a blue material around the lamp housing to mimmick the higher color temp. It's the lower wavelengths that are distracting while driving. 

However, if the LEDs head-lamps are a lot more expensive than halogen/Xenon then repair costs/insurance rates will go up. Otherwise, I'd rather be using LED provided I'm getting the same LUX


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## VanIsleDSM (Jul 17, 2008)

blasterman said:


> When has color rendition mattered when I'm driving at 75mph at night? Am I suddenly going to pull out my pantone swatch kit and critique the paint of the stop sign?



I think that's the most hilarious thing I've read on this forum. I'm still laughing as I write this.

Better colour rendition has been said to help with depth perception, but I don't think it's a big deal. Longer wavelengths do better in bad weather though, as they refract less off water particles in the air.

The point about LEDs and their colour is moot anyway. They can be built to mimic halogen almost perfectly, or you can get them right up to 10000K. The 4000-5000K range is best though. When it comes down to it, LEDs, as time goes on, will be able to render colours better than HID or incan, with better efficiency too.

The CRI scale is stupid, that's why a scale to compare lighting to actual sunlight is being worked on right now. Incan is not ideal light, and the CRI scale quotes it as such. Many things look much more vibrant under warm LED light than they do under Incan.


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## LukeA (Jul 17, 2008)

blasterman said:


> When has color rendition mattered when I'm driving at 75mph at night? Am I suddenly going to pull out my pantone swatch kit and critique the paint of the stop sign?



Best first post I've ever read!


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