# Surefire M6 or HID flashlight?



## Aaron1100us (Jan 11, 2006)

Hello, I'm new to all this but I'm really becoming fascinated with cool flashlights. I don't have much right now, just a G2, X5, and some other LED lights. I'm wanting to get something cool in a month or so (I hope). I'm looking for all out power, not too concerned about run time. I'm looking to spend under $400 but possibley up to $500, depending on what I get back from taxes this year. I've been looking at the surefire m6 but I've been wondering about possibley getting an HID flashlight. Also, is the surefire The Beast an HID? How much




are they and where can you get one? I don't know much about high end lights and would like to get something that is rugged, reliable and extremely bright. I do know that I love my little surefire G2 with the 120 lumen bulb. Everyone I show it to can't believe how bright that light is. Oh, I found an AE Light 24w HID powerlight. Are those any good? Thanks for your help.


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## bexteck (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Surefire M6 or HID flashligh?*

A few general statements about the lights that you have mentioned:

The Surefire M6 is designed to be small, bright and durable. Surefires are probably the most durable lights you can get, but the M6 is not as bright as many HID lights.

The Surefire Beast is also very durable and is in fact an HID light, which is much brighter than the M6. Downsides to it are that it takes something like 20 CR123 batteries, and costs around $3000 if I remember correctly. That is if you can find one that is for sale. Surefire only produced a limited number, so they are not very common lights.

I cannot say much about how rugged the AE Powerlight is, but I wouldn't think that many of the HID lights under $500 is designed to be extremely durable. Don't get me wrong, there are some great HID's out there that can be had for less than $500, (my ACRO X990 for instance), but I would not want to drop it on a hard surface from more than a few feet up, or get it too wet though.

So, if you want really bright, go with an HID of 24W or more, but if you want exteme durability, go with the Surefire M6.

Other members may be able to suggest other lights beyond what you mentioned in your original post.


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## Aaron1100us (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Surefire M6 or HID flashligh?*

Thanks for the reply. I'm very interested in the M6 for the durability and because its made by surefire. But how impressive is the M6? How much brighter would a 24w HID be? I've never seen an HID flashlight in person but I've got dual 250 watt HID lights over my aquarium And I know those things are extremely bright. I think I'd go with the M6 unless a 24 w HID would totally blow the M6 away. I'd love to hear more.


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## Kiessling (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: Surefire M6 or HID flashligh?*

A general note:
HID lights tend to be bigger than incans, are more efficient than incan, usually need a warm-up time of 8-20sec to full brightness, are more expensive and display a "colder" color than incans. Most HIDs cannot be instantly restarted either. HID bulbs last a lot longer than incan bulbs.

Specific notes:

The SF M6 is the king of flashlights. For its size, it packs brutal power. 500+ lumens out the front end, but only 20min runtime on 6xCR123 for the HOLA. Quality is the best you can get.

The AE 24W HID is relatively new and receives good reviews. Have a look at the Superlights III thread to learn more. It is significantly brighter than the SF M6 (exact lumen number unknown, maybe 1000+lm), significantly bigger and runs longer. Also much less rugged.

In your price range there is the already mentioned X990 ... a very bright 35W HID light on NiMh rechargeables. It is bigger than the AE even, heavier, less rugged, but it is bright like hell and runs relatively long one a charge. There are few handheld HIDs that can beat the X990 for brightness. Probably the best bang-for-the-buck HID around.

Then there are some new 10 and 24W HIDs that pretend to be tactical flashlights. One is the Microfire Warrior:





(Warrior is black; SF M6 is NAT)

And there are others, most notably form Wolf Eyes. While they aren't exactly bad lights, they don't meet the expectations their look suggests. Price is right though.

Link for Warrior review:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/92261


In the end ... I'd have a look at the Superlights threads to learn more about HID lights before making that decision as it is a costly one.

bernie

P.S.: there are also the very cheap HIDs like the Costco and this new one just showing up ... but they don't respect the flashlight form so I did not mention them


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## markdi (Jan 12, 2006)

what does 


quote 

they don't respect the flashlight form

unquote

mean ?


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## Kiessling (Jan 12, 2006)

They are too big and have an unconvienient form factor to be called a flashlight and carried as such. Nothing more.
bernie


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## CLHC (Jan 12, 2006)

As the others already pointed out here, the SureFire M6 is quite a light in its own right and for the size! If you're looking to spend up $500.00+ then you may be able to do both. SureFire M6 (shop around for best price—OpticsHQ) and then get the Harbor Freight HID that's being discussed at length in the Re-Badged Costco HID forum.

Enjoy!


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## john2551 (Jan 12, 2006)

Kiessling said:


> They are too big and have an unconvienient form factor to be called a flashlight and carried as such. Nothing more.
> bernie


 
Bernie,

Thanks for saying that! I glad to see i'm not the only one on CPF to realize the difference between a HID flashlight & an HID spotlight.

Regards,
John


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## john2551 (Jan 12, 2006)

Aaron,

Take a look here: http://home.earthlink.net/%7ekenshiro2/ & you will find what you're looking for.

Regards,

John


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## Aaron1100us (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks for the replies. Lots to think about. Hmmm. I really do like the surefire Mt but I guess I'm not sure if its really bright enough for me. Not sure though. I'd like to test these lights out myself but that would be kinda hard to do. The AE HID looks cool, pics look like its pretty bright and seems like it might be fairly durable. I'm not really looking for something to take beatings. I wish there was a way to compare the M6 and the AE HID next to eachother. There are some other brighter HID lights but I'm interested in the ones with the more flashlight look to them. And $300 for the AE HID doesn't seem too bad. I think if I knew exactly how bright the M6 was, I might go for that since it is a surefire but to have an HID flashlight would just be soo cool. Its just so hard to decide without knowing much about these and seeing them myself. Thanks for all the great information, I'd love to hear more too. More pics too if you have any Just how good of a light is the M6 brightness wise? They carry those at the loca. Scheels sporting goods stores and they look really nice.


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## john2551 (Jan 12, 2006)

Aaron,

SF M6 = 500 lumens for 20 minutes

AE PL/24 = 1300 lumens for 2 hours

The AE PL is almost 2 1/2 times brighter & runs 6 times longer on a single charge. To run the M6 for 2 hours you will need 36 batteries!

John


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## cy (Jan 12, 2006)

depends if you are going to play with the light or use it. 

if you are going to actually use the light. M6 wins hands down. if you are lucky enough to get JS's M6R rechargeable pack. then you get to run M6 with guilt free lumens 

yes most HID are brighter, but do you really need more lumens than M6 HOLA puts out? HID with long strike time makes most short uses not feasible. 

I do run niterider HID for my bike light for several hour runs. it's pita to restrike after killing light to save power.


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## john2551 (Jan 12, 2006)

Cy,

What is the M6 run-time on high mode with the JS's M6R rechargeable pack?

Thanks,

John


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## stuartyr (Jan 12, 2006)

john2551 said:


> Cy,
> 
> What is the M6 run-time on high mode with the JS's M6R rechargeable pack?
> 
> ...




19 mins.....


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## WAVE_PARTICLE (Jan 12, 2006)

from what I recall:

SF M6 = 500 lumens for 20 mins on HOLA ($400)

SF M6R = 500 lumens for 20 mins on HOLA ($400 + $200)

SF Beast = 2000 lumens for 90 mins ($$$$$$$ if you can find one). Also takes 20 CR123!!! That's nuts.....but good nuts. But when you put it in perspective, if you try to run an M6 for 90 minutes on max, you'd use up way more than 20 batteries....so in that sense, the Beast drinks less battery juice and provides 4 times more lumens.


I'm getting my M6 pretty soon. Can't wait :rock: . For me, it is more usable than the "search lights" and packs plenty of punch in a smaller, more portable package. Like it was said before...the King of Flashlights.

WP


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## cy (Jan 12, 2006)

I've never done a full continous run with M6R, but I can tell you it's more than just runtime. 

beam changes to a white light, output goes up to aprox. 600 lumens, beams stay constant for entire run. most importantly no overheating during extended runs. 

biggest problems with M6R is availability and of course cost. IMHO Surefire needs to take this design from JS and put into production. it's that good!

there's several threads using fivemega's R123 packs to create a li-ion pack for M6.


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## WAVE_PARTICLE (Jan 12, 2006)

cy: amen to that. If Surefire can provide a rechargable battery for the M6, it would quadruple their sales.


WP


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## rkonieska (Jan 12, 2006)

Aaron, My AE Powerlight was shipped yesterday and I can't wait. For the price, lumens, rechargeablity I don't think you can beat it..........I work in a squad car at night and need light. I got tired of feeding my SF m-4 so it is mounted as a weapons light on my duty .223 panther rifle. I am currently Un-sucking my SL-20 (pre-1986 model) to carry on my belt.........stingers and such don't have enough light (except US) The AE light will be in the car for special occasions. Next light will probably be an Elektrolumens pentalux... I think the HID technology will only get better in the near future.....smaller, brighter, longer run times, instant start etc... When it comes I'll let you know how it works after I wring it out.

P.S. have you seen some of the beam shots with the HID's?:wow:


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## Kiessling (Jan 12, 2006)

There are also those CPF-style Mini-HIDs which are Mag-conversions to 10W Solarc HID, but I guess those are too weak for you? :devil:

Some pics:

10W Microfire Warriot vs. SF M6 HOLA on a white whall and outdoors:














(coronas aren't really visible in those outdoor pics, they are practically hotspot only)


Another shoot-out:

SF E2e:





SF M3 HOLA:





SF M6 HOLA:





KenRad UDL-35 (35W HID with 4200K color temp)





with flood reflector:





Size comparison:






And the X990 smoke the UDL-35 for throw and maybe total output, too.

bernie


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## Aaron1100us (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks everyone. Both lights sure seem great in their own way. I'm going to be using the light for many different things, just playing around, camping, emergencies, to find out whats lurking back in the woods out behind our house, ect. I wish the recharge kit for the M6 wasn't another $200. Changing batteries in that every 20 minutes sounds kinda expensive with the 500 lumen bulb. But the M6 is more durable and smaller than the HID, yet it sounds like it is still pretty bright. The things I like about the AE Powerlight are the run time, its rechargable, and 2 and a half times brighter. I'd love to get both lights but I'll have to wait and get the light that I don't end up with later. Oh, btw, what does HOLA mean? Thanks
Any more pics?


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## CLHC (Jan 12, 2006)

LA = Lamp Assembly

LOLA = Low Output Lamp Assembly

HOLA = High Output Lamp Assembly


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## Aaron1100us (Jan 12, 2006)

Ok, thanks


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## wquiles (Jan 12, 2006)

Aaron1100us said:


> But the M6 is more durable and smaller than the HID, yet it sounds like it is still pretty bright.


I have not played with small HID's, but I do own a couple SF M6's and I absolutely love their very useful beam. Looking at most all beamshot pictures, the small size HID's have a light-saber, very narow beam which is almost all trow, which I don't find usefull at all. In all of my M*g based hotwires, I have gone from smooth, to LOP, MOP, and soon stippled, trying to find that elusive SF M6 "look" 




Aaron1100us said:


> I wish the recharge kit for the M6 wasn't another $200. Changing batteries in that every 20 minutes sounds kinda expensive with the 500 lumen bulb.


Keep watching the Flashlight Electronics sub-forum. A couple of regulated packs should be available this year 

Will


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## WAVE_PARTICLE (Jan 12, 2006)

wquiles said:


> Keep watching the Flashlight Electronics sub-forum. A couple of regulated packs should be available this year
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hmmm..... please expand on this....


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## JasonC8301 (Jan 12, 2006)

I stick to primary SF123a's for my M6. I have a MN20 250 lumen bulb and 6 cells in a SC2 when I pack my M6 (HOLA installed MN21) in my bag (Blackhawk Holster protecting it.)

Not many people do this, but having a M6 on the handguards of a M16 rifle is something I seriously want. After using it for low light room clearing and urban environment training, I will get one within the next 2 years. No need for a hot strike and warm up time like HID's. 

I have seen some HID's in action (from cut down 2D Mag's to the Costco HIDs) and as mentioned above it is a laser like beam. 

I was thinking about the M6R pack by js but it is not a good move on my part. Most of the time in the field I lack a AC port to charge a battery and have a nearly indefinate supply of 123 batteries. 

IF used for emergencies, stock up on 123's, low powered flashlights for general use and reserve the M6 for occasional need to light up the block work. Rechargables have their place but I would hate to be stuck with a dead battery and no power to charge it. 

But its up to you, two different animals, like apples to oranges. 

Buy both, or all three  (M6, Beast, and smaller HID light.)


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## Aaron1100us (Jan 12, 2006)

Thanks again for all the great replies. I think I'm going to start with the Surefire M6. I've heard nothing but great things about this light from what all of you have said. Now, I'll just have to see if I can come up with the money and see if the wife will let me get one Then, I'll just have to save up more and get an HID later on. THanks


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## Kiessling (Jan 12, 2006)

The SF M6 is the king of flashlights. What makes it so great - besides the top notch quality - is the output vs size ratio ... truly an eye-opener. One can easily accept that a big spotlight is very bright, but a "tiny" light like the Sf M6, at about the size of a 2D Mag ... a killer!
Runtime be damned, spare batteries is the key to victory  
bernie


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## Xenon (Jan 13, 2006)

I have owned the M6 before and also the AEpowerlight equivalent (brightstar), yes the M6 is hard to beat for a package so small and so bright. Only thing is the M6 is expensive to run if you're not going the rechargeable way.

For me I prefer more 'throw' in my big light, I take the HID anytime over the M6.


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## CLHC (Jan 13, 2006)

Xenon said:


> Only thing is the M6 is expensive to run if you're not going the rechargeable way.
> 
> For me I prefer more 'throw' in my big light, I take the HID anytime over the M6.



Still need to put gas in the automobile, even though the prices are way up there. And that may be so in one's preference for "more throw" in a "big light." I prefer all of them, my HIDs and my SureFire M6. Then again, Your Motives May Vary accordingly. . .


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## markdi (Jan 13, 2006)

hid bulbs do not have a filament to break so they are more robust than any surfire lamp assembly.

hid is more efficient - whiter - bulbs last longer etc.

incan is old technology.


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## LEDcandle (Jan 13, 2006)

Aaron1100us said:


> Hello, I'm new to all this but I'm really becoming fascinated with cool flashlights. I don't have much right now, just a G2, X5, and some other LED lights. I'm wanting to get something cool in a month or so (I hope). I'm looking for all out power, not too concerned about run time.



How about one of the mag mods or custom flashlights? 

Like the Tesla-6 or ELX-6, which uses 6 luxeons together :-
http://elektrolumens.com/4_SALE/For_Sale.html

Runtime is better than the M6 too and costs range from $170-300. 
Of course, the quality might differ from Surefire, but these are all still well-made flashlights in their own right. 

Some of the mag mod keywords you can search for are :-

Mag74
Mag85
Mag11
Mag100
USL
ROP (Roar of the Pelican) 
http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9
ROP/LE (Roar of the Pelican Lithium Edition)
http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=35

These may not be as reliable if not modded properly but if you are purely going for power and show, these will be excellent candidates. 500-1000+ lumens in varying sizes of maglites. Cost will be about $100 odd to make.

You might also be able to buy them off other members in the B/S/T forum. 

Basically what you need to mod your own:-
1) Maglite flashlight as host (suitable size)
2) Battery holder to use a chain of high capacity NiMh AAs instead of the original batt config (made by members like fivemega, modamag etc...)
3) Aluminiumn reflector (orig. plastic ones melt)
4) High output bulb (Welch Allyn a.k.a WA, Big D, Carley, Osram etc)
5) Glass lens

Some higher power mag mods require changing the stock switch and improving connectivity with progold etc... but leave that out for now 

I got a Brightstar 24w and I love it even though its big-***. Heh... feels like a rocket launcher and throws like one too. 

Happy hunting!


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## Kiessling (Jan 13, 2006)

Incan is not dead yet ... and I am a LED guy ... and still have to admit it.
In comparison to HID, incan strikes quickly and has less afterglow, does not require complicated electronics and is cheaper to replace. Also, the color is different ... some say nicer, some say too yellow.
Not dead yet ... especially since the low-powered HIDs loose their big efficiency and lifetime advantage but keep their disadvantages.
bernie


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## CLHC (Jan 13, 2006)

Exactly what Bernie said above. Now THAT'S Spot on!


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## HarryN (Jan 13, 2006)

I am an LED guy as well, but the M6 really is interesting to me. There will be several R pack options in 2006 on CPF, allowing users to decide easily on primary or recharge type cells.


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## CLHC (Jan 13, 2006)

HarryN said:


> . . .the M6 really is interesting. . .There will be several R pack options in 2006 on CPF, allowing users to decide easily on primary or recharge type cells.



If the run is the original and ONLY run then yes. Got the email from JS stating that there will be no 2nd (Second) run for the SF.M6-R. . .


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## cmacclel (Jan 13, 2006)

wquiles said:


> I have not played with small HID's, but I do own a couple SF M6's and I absolutely love their very useful beam. Looking at most all beamshot pictures, the small size HID's have a light-saber, very narow beam which is almost all trow, which I don't find usefull at all.
> 
> 
> Will




I beg to differ  The Mini HID's are light Sabers but do throw out a substantial amount of sidespill. I still remember back when I built my first Mini....... I brought it over to my other Flashaholic friends house who ownes a bunch of Surefire's and an X990. He's on a dead end street thats about 15 feet wide with houses right across from each other. From the middle of the street I fired up the Mini and pointed it straight up, it pretty much completely illuminated both houses from either side of the street. His next words where "Where's Mine". Also as far as I know the Mini is untouched for it's throw of anything even close to it's size -under 7" long, weighs 1lb, has around 500 lumens and can run for 1:20 minutes.




Mac


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## wquiles (Jan 13, 2006)

Fair enough . I guess I need to find a local CPF member to meet with me so that I can see one in person. I will bring my SF M6 and my camera along 

Will


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## markdi (Jan 13, 2006)

10 watt hid is still 3x the output per watt of incan

with a lot whiter light and up to 1000 hour bulb life.


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## Lunarmodule (Jan 14, 2006)

Aaron1100us said:


> Thanks again for all the great replies. I think I'm going to start with the Surefire M6. I've heard nothing but great things about this light from what all of you have said. Now, I'll just have to see if I can come up with the money and see if the wife will let me get one Then, I'll just have to save up more and get an HID later on. THanks



Aaron,

There's a lot of great info and suggestions in this thread, and a lot of solid options to choose from. I have many of the lights mentioned and am a huge proponent of HID for mega output and throw, but I have to say you've made an excellent choice in the SF M6. For a moment, forget completely about the battery situation, and realize that by my humble standards it provides the most incredible, practical, and useful high output beam of anything you can easily obtain, especially consider its size. The only thing I like more than my M6 is the huge 6 pound monster Acro x990 35W HID, but theres a big tradeoff in portability for all that power. The 10W HIDs are VERY impressive performers, having a distinct throw advantage and good runtime, but have a lack of color uniformity and considerable beam artifacts compared to an M6. I have, love, and use my MagHID 2D 10W HID variant all the time and its remarkably versatile. Its an awesome light that runs for 2 hours straight on 8 AA NiMHs, has great spotlight potential for sending a pencil beam a long ways, and focused out to a flood puts out nearly as much light as an M6. A great light in so many ways, but...

Ultimately, though, the M6 has a clearly defined edge in its beam quality. Bought used or near $300 from OpticsHQ or eBay its even a decent value for the unmatched quality of build. Many M6 detractors jibe about the high cost, but that doesent address the fact that the light unarguably makes a jaw-dropping impression with its output. The M6 creates a GIANT spot of perfectly smooth white incan light with NO filament artifacts or anything else detracting from it -- hence the phrase used here on CPF so often "Surefire-perfect beam". The color rendition of incan, esp. very high quality incan, just leaves LEDs and most HIDs in the dust in outdoor settings. It has to be seen to be appreciated. Once you have seen it, you realize the points stated by other posters are true. There are brighter lights, ones with more throw, etc, but I have yet to see a finer quality of light than produced by the M6. 

Yeah, its not cheap, neither are the $30 lamp assemblies, but EVERYBODY's biggest complaint is the cost and volume of disposable batteries the beast consumes. JS's excellent M6-R pack provided a taste of the potential of operating this great performer for pennies an hour (at 20 minutes a charge) with rechargeable NiMHs. But they were expensive and now that the second run of M6-Rs is cancelled, basically unobtanium due to how much their current limited number of owners use and love them. 

So, what's the next level? I shamelessly have to plug my own little contraption, as I made my own rechargeable battery solution for the M6 using 6 R123 rechargeable batteries in a modified Fivemega holder, with non-dimming runtime that matched stock levels. Thats been referred to by others (THANKS WQuiles). Here's a link to the thread about it. Scroll down to post #20 and it goes from there. Heres a pic:







Several others have made and currently use copies of this design. It simply ROCKS, much brighter and whiter than stock because of a significant overdrive of the LA due to its minimal sag triple parallel double series arrangement. Pennies an hour to run, top off the pack with an inexpensive LiIon pack charger anytime like the one currently a new offering in Group Buys. NO dimming until the very end of the run, unlike the stock setup which gets dim after a few minutes and continues.

So that was the first step. Next level: Still direct drive, but a resistored power pack that can deliver a whopping 35+ minutes of 600 or so lumen light with the MN21 HOLA. :naughty: Meet AndrewWynns player, the Wynnbright M6x6 pack: six 17500 rechargeable cells in a totally custom pack design by AWR. Currently am running 2 of them, and I AM the lucky dog for it! That 35 minutes is CONTINUOUS runtime, much more if used very intermittently. Heh heh :naughty:. If you can keep yourself from laughing out loud like a madman for how much sheer FUN the light is now that the onerous burden of piles of CR123s is done away with forever! Pennies an hour! BRIGHTER and WHITER than stock, and SOON to be plentifully available for a reasonable cost. (He's gotta finish up some Nanos....) OK, sorry about the commercial sounding tone. But I am genuinely thrilled to announce the approaching rollout of the M6x6. Heres some pics of phase 2:











Currently under development and testing is Phase 3: Full regulation with soft start and low voltage shutoff integrated into tailcap end of the pack. 

Nice thing about the direct drive (unregulated) versions is the minimal voltage sag of the rechargeable LiIons gives a much more steady brightness during the run, mimicking the performance of JS's regulated M6-R pack, but exceeding both stock and M6-R by a significant margin in duration. Phase three will push the performance envelope even further, with regained LA longevity and longer runtimes still, and idiot proof operation so I can re-qualify for it! 

These will be available in the next few weeks depending on schedules and parts, but theres a 100% commitment to producing these. Prices are not set yet but WILL be significantly less than the M6-R. Not quite two for the price of one, but it will be quite affordable to have 2 packs, one to run and one for backup.

As someone who has more than 40 full charge cycles run on my pair of rechargeable M6's, I can tell you this is about as good as it gets, folks. For M6 owners or prospective ones this is a slice of heaven -- for a flashaholic!
I remember reading JS's comment about how no one would ever be wanting to run their M6 by popping MB20 (batt holder) after MB20 into their M6s hour after hour. With this setup, a pair of packs, you can grin silly for at least a solid hour, and thats something to be experienced. I sincerely hope others here on CPF find this as exciting as I do. 

:huh: :naughty:


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## cmacclel (Jan 14, 2006)

Alot of good info there Lunarmodule. These next few upcoming weeks the new "Surefire" Style reflectors will be available and I can't waite to try one a mini HID.


Mac


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## CLHC (Jan 14, 2006)

Whoa Lunarmodule. Way to go on that project!

Also, as already commented on in this thread, the SureFire M6 is an excellent light to go with. Besides, if Modamag is still running that Group Buy on the KumKang Polarion HID, that one is a great buy at $675.00. Not that much more than the SF.M6.

Enjoy!


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## Lunarmodule (Jan 14, 2006)

Mac,

I've been DYING to try out the Carley Stippled Super-Reflector ever since I saw Litho123's thread and AndrewWynn's M66 beamshots. They would add a whole dimension to the performance of the HIDs. I've always wanted to get rid of that annoying dark halo around the center spot, maybe this will do the trick. AWR got some incredible results in his M66 versus M6 comparison, the stippled reflector giving the modded Mag a huge leg up on the M6 by offering comparable beam spread character for considerably less money. IMHO a lot of the incredible quality of the M6's beam is due to the nuances of the reflector design (it has a particular stipple), partial bulb frosting, etc. to strike the right balance for focused, blended long range output. The Carley Stipple reflector from Litho123 is a big step to closing the gap.


CHC,

Thanks for the kind words, as always! The Polarion is a very nice HID but its possible to acquire a new M6 and x990 for the same greenbacks and have MUCH more versatility, but then again, there's the flashaholics motto: just get em all, sort em out later.


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## john2551 (Jan 15, 2006)

Aaron,

I forgot to mention that if you want a 1800 lumen light that is the exact same length (7.75") as the 500 lumen, SF M6 then consider the non-rechargeable version of this: http://www.microfire.cn/Warrior-II-K2000R.htm or the rechargeable version that is only 1/2" longer. It will be for sale soon.

Regards,

John


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## LuxLuthor (Jan 15, 2006)

That looks pretty sweet Lunarmodule....not to mention that JS sent out an email that he is not going to do any more M6-R (after finishing the original run). I was just glad I got in on FiveMega's 1300 lumen Mag85 mod.


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## Lunarmodule (Jan 15, 2006)

The pricing on the Warrior II should be around $200 over the typical street price of the M6. It should be a nice HID light as long as they live up to their advertising claims. 

I had (and quickly sold) a Microfire Warrior 10W HID (non-rechargeable) primarily because the runtime was a dismal 25 minutes on 4 fresh Battery Station CR123s, when they claimed 60 minutes typical. No warranty at all either. At the same time I bought a MagHID 10W conversion and the difference between the two was drastic. Although similar in configuration, the Warrior had less brightness and far more weird beam artifacts due to its funky reflector. Finish was decent. I loved the Warriors compact form, but quality of light fell far short of its looks for me and the runtime sealed its fate. Because of my experience and the mixed reviews from others I hold all Microfire at arms length unless I read a thorough review to the good. I hope they got it right with the Warrior II. It was supposed to be released in August, I even had dibs on one at Pactacsol, expected at the same time as the Wolf Eyes Shark II. Also, 1800 is a claimed bulb lumen number, expect 1200 out the front of the light. 

In a flashlight format for an HID your original thought about the AE Powerlight is a good one. If you dont mind the size its a solid performer. Its critical to balance your needs when selecting a light. There's a sigline I see often that says: bright, small, long-running... choose any two..... and those are TRUE words. 

For certain, in the price range you mentioned ($300-500) you have access to some of the finest illumination tools on Earth. So the problem isnt which one to pick, its which ones NOT to. If you follow the path to the logical end many have said and I agree just go straight out and get the one you REALLY want, therefore skip wasting time and money on lesser lights and it works out to the good.


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## hburner (Jan 15, 2006)

I can support LM on his claims for his RC pack. It is a good temporary fix for an RC. But I am very anxious to get one of AWs "smartpacks" if you will, that kind of runtime and a soft start on the LA will be simply awsome!!!!


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## john2551 (Jan 15, 2006)

Lunarmodule,

You are 100% correct. I'll wait for a review of the Warrior-II before i consider a purchase. At ~8" if it performs as well or better than the AE PL, i'll get one. Even if the runtime is less than the 110 minutes they claim. Anything from 45-75 minutes is satisfactory for me.

Regards,

John


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## Kiessling (Jan 15, 2006)

Yes ... I'll wait for a MrTedBear review, too. WarriorII sounds really nice, especially since it runs on primaries, but based on my experiences with the Warrior 10W version I am a bit reluctant now. Mine runs for more than 25min for sure, but I don't know if it reaches 60min.

If the WarriorII puts out at least, say 800 lumens, and has 45min runtime, I am sold.

bernie


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## jeffroalpha700 (Jan 15, 2006)

I currently use on patrol an 8AX on my belt, an L4 in my SAP pocket next to my Kershaw, an M3 in the car (easy to shoot with my gun in tactical situations), and the 10X dominator for traffic stops. I also keep my M6 in the trunk in a Blackhawk holster. I only use this for long-range searches. The beam has a little better distance than the 10X (less vertical spot), but you still might want to consider the 10X if you want a rechargeable.

I put the HOLA in the smaller bulb (120 lumens) of my 10X. It is great on traffic stops. If I need more light, I push in the switch all the way and get over 550+ lumens of combined light. It is so much nicer than my UltraStinger, and it is many times brighter. I do keep a second battery/switch stick with me in my car for my 10X and rotate through the two units every other night. Pretty effective system.

I don't have any HID's, but as others have mentioned, you have warm-up and strike times. This is why our pillar-mounted Unity spotlights on our vehicles are still 100-watt H3 halogen bulbs. At one point, we looked at the Unity HID models, (http://www.unityusa.com), but it would not serve us well as we are always quickly turning our spotlights on and off in alleys etc.

For my Bushmaster AR15, I will eventually order one of these (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/265/sesent/00). Our department gives everyone a mount and Streamlight M3 lights for our carbines. They are way too dim for rifle use. It is adequate on my handgun, but not on my rifle.


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## Cosmic Charlie (Nov 3, 2006)

Wow! I thought there were not many people with my same passion for flashlights. I am glad I found this forum. I have the same questions about the flashlights that Aaron does. There is so much information here about flashlights my mind almost went on overload. I dont know which light is a better one to start off with. I am currently living in South Korea and there is a Surefire dealer here but the lights are more expensive. THe M6 is 588,000 won or 588 US dollars. The same dealer In Seoul is advertising the beast for sale. But a killer price of 5,500,000 Korean Won or 5,500 US dollars! Any advice will be helpful. Oh I decided on this name because I am also named Aaron and did not to get to confused.
Thanks.


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