# Any HDS Twisty News?



## txmatt (Dec 8, 2007)

Any updates on the HDS Twisty? I'd especially like to know when we might expect the AA tube.


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## alanagnostic (Dec 8, 2007)

I keep monitoring the thread and website for news but I have seen none. I'm getting to like the idea of a Twisty more and more. I'm going to wait for reviews and pictures but I'm pretty sure I'll eventually get one. I'd like to see a 2x123 battery tube.


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## Gary007 (Dec 8, 2007)

I'm anxious also!


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## thermal guy (Dec 8, 2007)

I'd be happy right now with just a new pic of it. I'm getting tired of looking at the same one every day


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## MikeLip (Dec 8, 2007)

I emailed batttery station on the 5th about my 100TW preorder. They said;

"I just received new info from HDS. The 100TW's are expected within a week or two. The 70 lumen models, however, have been delayed a little longer for circuit board tweeking."

Glad I ordered the 100!


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## skalomax (Dec 8, 2007)

MikeLip said:


> I emailed batttery station on the 5th about my 100TW preorder. They said;
> 
> "I just received new info from HDS. The 100TW's are expected within a week or two. The 70 lumen models, however, have been delayed a little longer for circuit board tweeking."
> 
> Glad I ordered the 100!


 

YES!!
Me too.


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## gadgetnerd (Dec 8, 2007)

Good to hear thaat Henry would rather delay a release to get it perfect, than rush it out the door. I've got plenty of other torches to play with while I wait for my 70!


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## luminata (Dec 8, 2007)

I emailed BS also. Got the same answer. 
it would be nice to get before x-mas. 
Then I can put it under the tree and squeal with delight Xmas morning as I act surprised whilst tearing the wrapping paper apart and discovering what lies inside. Then I will exclaim "Oh Thank You Santa !!! Thank You!!! It's just what I wished for!!!" After which all will roll their eyes, but won't take the hint next year .........
I have to do this since noone else is gonna put it under the tree for me. I dont know about the rest of you but the most exciting thing I get at Christmas is a Dunkin' Donuts card with 25 bucks on it . WHOO HOO!!


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## :)> (Dec 8, 2007)

MikeLip said:


> Glad I ordered the 100!



I ordered both. I hope that they ship my 100 when it arrives and don't wait to ship both of them together.


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## :)> (Dec 8, 2007)

alanagnostic said:


> I'm getting to like the idea of a Twisty more and more.



I have a Surefire Titan and I am completely satisfied with the twisty UI. I like the idea that the HDS is going to work the same way, albeit with many fewer levels. I don't miss a clicky at all. 

I really am having a hard time waiting on these.


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## KenAnderson (Dec 9, 2007)

Goatee, did you pickup another Ti-PDs today? You are loving those twistys. Actually I do as well.

The HDS twisty is graduated like the Titan? Will it be relatively smooth ramping? I hadn't heard this.

Ken


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## PhantomPhoton (Dec 9, 2007)

luminata said:


> I emailed BS also. Got the same answer.
> it would be nice to get before x-mas.
> Then I can put it under the tree and squeal with delight Xmas morning as I act surprised whilst tearing the wrapping paper apart and discovering what lies inside. Then I will exclaim "Oh Thank You Santa !!! Thank You!!! It's just what I wished for!!!" After which all will roll their eyes, but won't take the hint next year .........
> I have to do this since noone else is gonna put it under the tree for me. I dont know about the rest of you but the most exciting thing I get at Christmas is a Dunkin' Donuts card with 25 bucks on it . WHOO HOO!!



ROFL.
Some of us know of such things all too well. 

I'm waiting for some reviews and more concrete specs before I take the plunge, but I'm sure I will get one (or both) eventually. I just need to know which one first and how high up the priority list to put it.


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## RainerWahnsinn (Dec 9, 2007)

thermal guy said:


> I'd be happy right now with just a new pic of it. I'm getting tired of looking at the same one every day



To see some Pictures from another angle would make me happy too. I´m waiting for the TR and (I know I have to) can`t wait. Thank you Henry.

Rainer


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## MikeLip (Dec 9, 2007)

KenAnderson said:


> The HDS twisty is graduated like the Titan? Will it be relatively smooth ramping? I hadn't heard this.
> 
> Ken



Nope. It's three stage.


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## yaesumofo (Dec 9, 2007)

I will tell you guys I am having a hard time resisting this light. There are so few cool lights around comming from high end manufactures. When a new one comes up it makes me happy. It seems to me that some of these companies are going for a more custom flashlight program. OK I admit it I have several HDS edc's in a couple of varieties. Guess what I like 'em they are good quality flashlights.I am sure this one will be no different.
I am looking forward to owning one of these.
Funny. I can get my head around this light. I like the new little L1 surefire. But I can't get myb head around it or into it.
Strange.
Yaesumofo


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## :)> (Dec 9, 2007)

> Goatee, did you pickup another Ti-PDs today? You are loving those twistys. Actually I do as well.



Guilty as charged:naughty:



> The HDS twisty is graduated like the Titan? Will it be relatively smooth ramping? I hadn't heard this.


 
The HDS Twisty will have 3 levels but as far as I can tell, they will work the same way as the Titan; i.e. turn the bezel for light and more for more light then turn the bezel the other way for less light and ultimately no light.


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## MikeLip (Dec 9, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> I will tell you guys I am having a hard time resisting this light. There are so few cool lights around comming from high end manufactures. When a new one comes up it makes me happy. It seems to me that some of these companies are going for a more custom flashlight program. OK I admit it I have several HDS edc's in a couple of varieties. Guess what I like 'em they are good quality flashlights.I am sure this one will be no different.
> I am looking forward to owning one of these.
> Funny. I can get my head around this light. I like the new little L1 surefire. But I can't get myb head around it or into it.
> Strange.
> Yaesumofo



OK, despite the fact that I have one on pre-order, I do agree with you. If you have a Fenix or a Surefire single celled light, you very likely will never need what this light gives you.

If you read the HDS website, you will find a bit of history. The company makes lights for situations where they absolutely, positively HAVE to work, even more so than Surefire. They started making lights for cavers. If your light dies there, so do you 

http://www.hdslights.com/index.html - click on articles and read the history. Heck, read it all. It's all good stuff.

So what were are looking at with the Twistie is kind of a super-L1 with a higher high and VERY low low that will run for a very long time. Plus it is designed to take rechargeable lithiums. It is also designed to be utterly reliable. So if the L1 is the armored personnel carrier of the 1 cell flashlight world, the Twistie is the M1 Abrams.

Or something like that


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## :)> (Dec 9, 2007)

yaesumofo said:


> Funny. I can get my head around this light. I like the new little L1 surefire. But I can't get myb head around it or into it.
> Strange.



Mofo, 

I am not sure what you mean by your statement:duh2: but I am pretty sure that the O.D. of the bezels is pretty close to the same so if you can "_work"_ with one of them, then you should be able to do the same with the other.

I am not sure that this thread can take an explanation of what you mean so I am not requesting one


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## luminata (Dec 9, 2007)

The only thing I am finding myself wishing is that the middle level of output was something higher. Somewhere in the area of 40-60 lumens. I am finding I just dont find much use for 15-17 lumens . 40-60 lumens is coming to be a very useful amount of light and then having the 100 for short term super brightness is great. Plus the low low is the extra icing on the cake. 

Oh well, the other positive factors about the Twisty will far outway any detriments in my book. :twothumbs


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## adamlau (Dec 9, 2007)

They need to surface finish (powdercoat, enamel) the SS bezel in all their models and offer the red light in the 100.


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## flashy bazook (Dec 9, 2007)

I thought I saw in one of the HDS threads a reference to some kind of "advanced" HDS model with more modes (or maybe user-controlled modes). But I couldn't find where these references were coming from--it seemed as if there had been a discussion of this more advanced HDS somewhere other than in CPF, or at least somewhere I couldn't track down.

Has anyone else come across any of this? Is there a more advanced version of HDS in the works?

Also, does anyone know the lumen output of the red LED (in those HDS's that have the red LED instead of the low-white LED output option)? I saw again some ref. that it wouldn't be a 5mm Nichia red LED, but that's all I know.


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## RainerWahnsinn (Dec 10, 2007)

flashy bazook said:


> Also, does anyone know the lumen output of the red LED (in those HDS's that have the red LED instead of the low-white LED output option)? I saw again some ref. that it wouldn't be a 5mm Nichia red LED, but that's all I know.



May be that gives you an Idea what kind of red LED it is. Hope, that helps.

Rainer


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## joema (Dec 10, 2007)

luminata said:


> The only thing I am finding myself wishing is that the middle level of output was something higher. Somewhere in the area of 40-60 lumens. I am finding I just dont find much use for 15-17 lumens . 40-60 lumens is coming to be a very useful amount of light and then having the 100 for short term super brightness is great...


Due to the eye's logarithmic sensitivity, there's little visual difference between 60 lumens and 100. 

This is the same trap many manufacturers fall into, and set brightness levels based on a paper number, not on visual appearance. You often end up with several brightness levels so similar it's hard to immediately tell the difference.

Fortunately HDS has resisted this and is setting their brightness levels based on visual response, not based on a number.

I agree a programmable light (HDS U60, Novatac 120P, etc) is great and allows individual fine-tuning. However for three fixed levels I think we'll find what HDS selected for the Twisty will work very well.


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## HDS_Systems (Dec 21, 2007)

A couple of our vendors have experienced delays in delivering parts. The end of year is very busy for them and when you add roughly 3 weeks of the holidays in a two month period, delays just get longer. The tardy vendors are now saying they will deliver in the middle of January. It will take us about two weeks after the parts deliveries to begin shipping flashlights. We appreciate your patience while we get the first light out the door. Quality is our primary concern.

Henry.


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## Oddjob (Dec 21, 2007)

HDS_Systems said:


> A couple of our vendors have experienced delays in delivering parts. The end of year is very busy for them and when you add roughly 3 weeks of the holidays in a two month period, delays just get longer. The tardy vendors are now saying they will deliver in the middle of January. It will take us about two weeks after the parts deliveries to begin shipping flashlights. We appreciate your patience while we get the first light out the door. Quality is our primary concern.
> 
> Henry.


 
Thanks for the update Henry. I personally don't mind the wait since it will allow me to pay off some of my Christmas bills first. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!


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## luminata (Dec 21, 2007)

UGH!!! Thats like another 6 weeks out total

Well, no promises were made and for good reason. Completely out of HDS control. 

I might pull back on the pre-order myself and see what happens in the flashlight world for the beginning of '08 since it seems as if there may be a number of remarkable new entries into the flashlight world coming in January and my funds are limited for this sort of thing.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Dec 21, 2007)

While this information isn't putting me in my happy place, it's completely understandable. Though I don't know Henry personally, his products and dealings have always been way above board. I don't mind waiting (even though I have the mentality of a 6-year old when it comes to waiting for new toys) in order to get a quality product. 

Additionally, I wouldn't dream of withdrawing my pre-order because, despite potential new offerings from other manufacturers, I don't believe any of them could meet the unique properties of this light. IMO, this will likely be the ultimate survival light. Small enough to always be with you, simple and reliable interface and (presumably) as tough as they come.


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## ElectronGuru (Dec 22, 2007)

HDS_Systems said:


> We appreciate your patience while we get the first light out the door. Quality is our primary concern.
> 
> Henry.



Bravo. I've been waiting since August and I'm happy continuing doing so to get a better product. This isn't jewelry and won't be treated like it. Thanks for the update!


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## jacklovell (Dec 27, 2007)

What a Christmas... I have just lost my HDS EDC Ultimate.
I am thinking of replacing it with the anticipated Twisty but I still have a 2x123 battery extension tube that I bought for the Ultimate.
Does anyone think that this might fit the Twisty?

Jack


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## Hans (Dec 27, 2007)

jacklovell said:


> I am thinking of replacing it with the anticipated Twisty but I still have a 2x123 battery extension tube that I bought for the Ultimate.
> Does anyone think that this might fit the Twisty?



It won't fit, at least not far as I know. I remember Henry mentioned somewhere that he changed the treads on the new lights to make them even more robust.

A shame about your light ... are you sure it won't turn up somewhere? I thought I had lost one of my HDS a couple of months ago. I found it a few weeks later in my brother's car. That car is like a black hole, only that sometimes it tends to spit out things it has swallowed ... 

Hans


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Dec 27, 2007)

jacklovell said:


> What a Christmas... I have just lost my HDS EDC Ultimate.
> I am thinking of replacing it with the anticipated Twisty but I still have a 2x123 battery extension tube that I bought for the Ultimate.
> Does anyone think that this might fit the Twisty?
> 
> Jack


 
Sorry but, no. If you read about the Twisty, there is specific mention of a different and much stronger thread type. There is a rumor of eventual new battery tube options being sold. Maybe, someone will buy your 2 X 123 tube from you for a good price?


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## Frank Maddix (Jan 11, 2008)

MikeLip said:


> I emailed batttery station on the 5th about my 100TW preorder. They said;
> 
> "I just received new info from HDS. The 100TW's are expected within a week or two. The 70 lumen models, however, have been delayed a little longer for circuit board tweeking."
> 
> Glad I ordered the 100!


Oh bu**er. I just ordered a 70R (red). This was because I've got plenty of other lights with lots of lumens (e.g. Fenix T1) and realised that I rarely use the max output in normal situations. For camping, the red option is ideal.
Still, when it arrives, at least I know the circuit board will have received special attention {:-}


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## txmatt (Jan 11, 2008)

I know we're still waiting for the release of the lights, but when might we expect the optional 2xAA battery tube. For some reason I recall mention of the AA tube being something that might not be available for some time after the light became available, but maybe that was just an assumption/interpretation I made. Anyone know? The AA compatibility is really the most appealing part of the Twisty to me, so I'll likely hold off until those tubes are available.


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## rigormootis (Jan 11, 2008)

txmatt said:


> I know we're still waiting for the release of the lights, but when might we expect the optional *2xAA battery tube*. For some reason I recall mention of the AA tube being something that might not be available for some time after the light became available, but maybe that was just an assumption/interpretation I made. Anyone know? The AA compatibility is really the most appealing part of the Twisty to me, so I'll likely hold off until those tubes are available.



+1 to all of that!!!


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## L.E.D. (Jan 11, 2008)

What kind of LED does the 100-TW use? The specs here http://www.hdslights.com/Twisty.html say the LED is NOT ultra-reliable on the 100, but is reliable on the 70...


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## Hans (Jan 11, 2008)

L.E.D. said:


> What kind of LED does the 100-TW use? The specs here http://www.hdslights.com/Twisty.html say the LED is NOT ultra-reliable on the 100, but is reliable on the 70...



Henry doesn't say which LEDs he uses. No doubt some people will be able to tell once the lights are out. But it doesn't really matter. I still remember the discussions when the "old" HDS came out with people arguing for weeks about the binning of the LuxIII he used. It also didn't matter - all his lights performed to specifications, and that's the main point.

As to the reliability: Henry has always been very, very cautious in what he says about his lights. When he claims the LED in one of his lights is ultra-reliable that means just that. In other words, it's ultra-reliable even by his own, very high standards, and he intends these lights to be extremely rugged. The LED that isn't ultra-reliable, well, I reckon that's going to be a "normal" Cree or whatever LED he uses. 

Hans


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## :)> (Jan 11, 2008)

I have a feeling that these lights are going to surprise quite a few people when they are shipped. They have all the makings of a classic! They are now showing up in my dreams.


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## L.E.D. (Jan 11, 2008)

I would like to get one. Sure hope I can save up enough for one right when they come out..


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 17, 2008)

Henry mentioned that he hopes to receive the parts from the machine shop in mid-January. I wonder if they've come in yet? If they have, and all goes well, it's only 2-3 more weeks! :twothumbs


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## txmatt (Jan 17, 2008)

Waiting eagerly as well. Don't "need" this light yet, but am going camping in late April and would love to snag one with 2xAA tube before that trip.


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## HDS_Systems (Jan 18, 2008)

All,

The machine shop has finished the bodies and they are going out for anodize. I expect those parts to be delivered just in time for SHOT. There are a couple of other parts that may arrive during or just after SHOT. The new manufacturing process is so much better than the last one that the final steps will go very fast. Can shipments be far behind?

For those old customers who have EDC Ultimate and EDC Basic flashlights, we have received many reports recently that the warranties were not being honored. We don't want to see you, our customers, treated this way. Therefore, effective immediately, HDS Systems will honor those warranties even though we no longer own the EDC product line. Please see the thread "EDC Ultimate and EDC Basic warranties" in the CPF Marketplace under Manufacturers Corner for full details. We apologize for any inconvenience that may have caused you.

Henry.


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## dulridge (Jan 19, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> All,
> For those old customers who have EDC Ultimate and EDC Basic flashlights, we have received many reports recently that the warranties were not being honored. We don't want to see you, our customers, treated this way. Therefore, effective immediately, HDS Systems will honor those warranties even though we no longer own the EDC product line. Please see the thread "EDC Ultimate and EDC Basic warranties" in the CPF Marketplace under Manufacturers Corner for full details. We apologize for any inconvenience that may have caused you.



The HDS lights are not ones that would normally enter my reckoning, but this paragraph certainly puts them there - many, many cheers to HDS! :twothumbs


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## gunga (Jan 19, 2008)

I wasn't sure about getting an HDS, but after that statement about warranty, I think I may have to get one.

I think Surefires are cool, with basic electronics. I think HDS is cool, with awesome electronics. I'm a techie so guess which one I choose?

Can't wait...


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## Lightraven (Jan 19, 2008)

Of all the flashlights I own, I'd bet the EDC 60 is the least likely to ever need a warranty.

I just put a dead CR 123A in the Novatac 120T (that I really like) and it couldn't "get it up." I put that battery in the EDC 60 and it manages to squeeze maybe 5 lumens out of it.


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## Tempest UK (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks for the update, Henry  Not too long to go.

Good news about the EDC warranty.

Regards,
Tempest


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## antiplex (Jan 19, 2008)

i'm also very excited to see first reviews plus additional pics of the new twisty and consider getting a 70r. just wish there will be an option for a 2xAA or 3xAAA tube since i want to be able to be idependent of battery supplies (by the use of eneloop accus in combination with a solar charger) for a unforseeable time.
i'm sure henry will come up with an outstanding piece with the twisty. thanks! :thumbsup:


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## Turd_Fergeson (Jan 19, 2008)

Is there any chance for a pocket clip on the twisty in the near future? I love my EDC Ultimate and carry it everywhere I go, however, only because it has a pocket clip. Without a pocket clip I don't know what to do with this light.


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## HDS_Systems (Jan 19, 2008)

Turd_Fergeson,

We are working on a pocket clip option but have not settled on a final solution.

Henry.


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## paulr (Jan 19, 2008)

Another vote for 2AA. I don't understand why anyone would want 3AAA. I hope some future model can support 1AA.


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## adamlau (Jan 20, 2008)

Can the Twisty be purchased on its own, w/o the case and extra cells? Lowering the price in such a manner would garner them at least one more sale from me :twothumbs .


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## Turd_Fergeson (Jan 20, 2008)

Henry,

Thanks for the reply and update. I wait anxiously for your pocket clip solution as I will be waiting eagerly to purchase a twisty of my own. 

I just ordered an ARC4+ clip for my Ulitimate ( http://www.lighthound.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2364 )and should get that early next week. I can give some feedback if anyone is interested.

A lens down option would be nice, since I find that mine catches a lot of debris (dust, lint, etc) in my pocket.

Just wanted to say thanks for building such awesome products. My ultimate has been dropped, kicked, submereged, and run for hours on end. I've wore out a lithium rechargeable after probably a hundred reacharges, and my ultimate shows no sign of faltering

Looking at the engineering thought and care in the twisty makes me want one now! Let me know about that pocket clip!

Thanks, and please keep up the excellent work!

Ed


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## HDS_Systems (Jan 20, 2008)

PaulR,

Expect to see an official announcement for a 18670 and a 2xAA battery tube shortly after the Twisty begins shipping.

Adamlau,

I don't understand your question. What case and extra cells are you referring to? If you are referring to a bundle being offered by one of our dealers, you will probably need to ask the dealer directly.

Turd_Fergeson,

One of the design goals is to allow the user to use either bezel up or bezel down carry positions. With equal ease. We will let everyone know when we have finalized the design.

And you are welcome. We enjoy building great flashlights.

Henry.


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## FrogmanM (Jan 20, 2008)

Thx for the awesome answers! The Twisty sounds like its gonna have loads of accesories for it!:twothumbs I see all these older HDS/Arc/ users with a small collection of legos, its making me jealous! I can only hope the Twisty will also become a classic.

Mayo


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## gadgetnerd (Jan 20, 2008)

I'm in a bit of a torch lull at the moment where absolutely nothing is interesting to me, with the exception of my pre-ordered 70r. I've owned lots of torches but the HDS (and offspring) pretty much renders the rest irrelevant.

Henry, will you ever make a 1xAA twistie? That would cure my torch addiction once and for all!


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## paulr (Jan 20, 2008)

Henry, excellent about the 2aa tube, thanks. I actually understand 3aaa a little betternow. By having three aaa's in a triangular pack you get a short light of similar thickness to the Twisty and therefore it makes sense. It turned me off at first because I think of that formation in terms of cheap Chinese 5mm lights where they didn't want to spend an extra few cents on dc-dc conversion to run on 1aa. But on a good light with a buck-boost converter, 3 aaa nimh cells actually sounds attractive. Total energy in three aaa's is a bit less than two aa's while the cell weight is a little higher, but dc-dc conversion efficiency might be a bit better (because of the higher input voltage) giving comparable runtime, and the total weight (light plus cells) might be about the same, because the 3aaa battery tube would be smaller and weigh less. And battery expenditure isn't such an issue because the cells are rechargeable. 

So if you did a 3aaa pack I'd be interested. I'm also reminded of the 4aaa Elektrolumens "Little Friend" from a while back.

I am paranoid towards lithium ion cells and I don't want to deal with yet another charging system (I want to use nimh aa's and aaa's for everything), so I'm not interested in the 18650 pack myself, but that's just me. I know there's demand for it.


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## Russki (Jan 20, 2008)

Definitely A+ for 18650 and 2AA tubes.:twothumbs


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## rigormootis (Jan 21, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> PaulR,
> 
> Expect to see an official announcement for a 18670 and a 2xAA battery tube shortly after the Twisty begins shipping.
> 
> - Henry.




Outstanding news!!! This leaves me with just one more question: 

Might you consider offering these with "just" a 2AA tube (e.g., a Twisty-AA)??? 

I might very well pull the trigger on one of these as-is, but the (1) C123A tube would only collect dust after I got my hands on a 2AA tube.
Thanks.


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## HDS_Systems (Jan 22, 2008)

GadgetNerd,

A single AA twisty would need to be designed from the ground up for that configuration. Perhaps a future product.

Rigormootis,

We will consider the Twisty-AA option. But for the moment, the AA tubes will be accessories.

Henry.


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## gadgetnerd (Jan 23, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> GadgetNerd,
> A single AA twisty would need to be designed from the ground up for that configuration. Perhaps a future product.



Thanks Henry

A man can dream...

By the way, thanks for being so responsive on these forums, we all really appreciate it.


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## 9volt (Jan 23, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> PaulR,
> 
> Expect to see an official announcement for a 18670



18670 or 18650?


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## tebore (Jan 23, 2008)

9volt said:


> 18670 or 18650?



Well a 18670 tube would allow for 18650s to be used as well as 2X123 if the electronics allow.


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## Dead_Nuts (Jan 23, 2008)

I am also one who is anxiously awaiting the TW. I have pre-ordered and can only hope that I am in the first production run. This looks like a truly high quality light and I really don't mind waiting to make sure it's done right.

After all, there are plenty of less expensive new lights to keep my habit satisfied, and wallet emptied, while I wait. [My wife hates the fact that I found this site!]


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## Bullzeyebill (Jan 23, 2008)

Maybe Henry will have something for us at SHOT.

Bill


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 23, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> PaulR,
> 
> Expect to see an official announcement for a 18670 and a 2xAA battery tube shortly after the Twisty begins shipping.
> 
> ...



Wasn't this same promise made on the 1st round of HDS lights? I don't recall a 2xAA tube ever making it into production.


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## tebore (Jan 23, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> Wasn't this same promise made on the 1st round of HDS lights? I don't recall a 2xAA tube ever making it into production.



Full production no. None of the tubes made it in to full production. Some were made as prototypes. The 2xAA is the rarest prototype. Turbodog has one.


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 23, 2008)

tebore said:


> Full production no. None of the tubes made it in to full production. Some were made as prototypes. The 2xAA is the rarest prototype. Turbodog has one.



Well, I guess that's my point. Why should we believe that these tubes are going to make it this time?


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## tebore (Jan 23, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> Well, I guess that's my point. Why should we believe that these tubes are going to make it this time?



As much as I like Henry and love his lights. I'm with you on this one. The track record for HDS for following through with things is pretty smeared. There's a lot of fan boys out there (I'm one I'll admit) but to reach a larger crowd Henry and HDS is going to have to push hard to get the product to market, provide the support for the product and follow through with the accessories for the product.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 28, 2008)

any updates, no matter how minor?


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## strideredc (Jan 30, 2008)




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## JohnTz (Jan 30, 2008)

I have never waited so long for a light. Com-on Henry give us some sign of life.


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## yaesumofo (Jan 30, 2008)

One must admit that Henry has a habit of dumping and running.
this has happened with the arc 4, hds edc series and the novatac. every time Henry comes out with a light in the end the "ownership" of the service on that light seems to change. I know that he has recently "taken back" the service of hds lights from Novatac...But the fact that it went away in the first place is a little off putting. Whats to say that Henry will not do the same thing again?

Look I am an owner of several arc 4's 4 or 5 edc's, a novatac. There is no doubt that Henry can design a cool flashlight. It is the way he does business that I worry about.
I really don't like the idea that I may end up out in the cold ...AGAIN.
End users should never have to deal with this kind of stuff.
If you buy a surefire surefire takes care of it. If you buy an ARC AAA ARC takes care of it. (but not older arc Ls's and arc 4 (but I believe they can be returned for a credit or something...
Why all the nonsense?
I like the idea of a HDS twisty. I don't like the looks of the thing IMHO it is pretty ugly. Looks aren't everything but Henry has chosen to detune the light to work at lower levels than most current offerings..I know why I have read the posts...Whatever the runtime vs power issue there are times when runtime just doesn't matter but brightness does. 
Anyway the test is detuned ugly and most likely a very heavy light.

I know there are pluses on the other side and the build quality and absolute bombproofing are among them. That is all well and good but it doesn't make it a great all around edc type of light.
As mentioned other battery cases were promised ...How many of you passed over $100 for a 18650 pak? IMHO that is completely outrageous.
Lighthound is selling 17670 / 2 cell paks for $40 or $50, Much more reasonable. But why were these parts with held from the market for so long? To create an artificial shortage...to keep the 18650 at a premium?
Hell I don't know I doesn't matter anyway.
You just need to look at the pattern of how Henry has operated in the past. Personally I will be very cautious when considering a decision to buy Henry's latest offering. Maybe he will have a realistic schedule for selling the accessories so they will find their way into the hands of hds owners weeks or so after the initial sale of the light instead of having to wait a year or two to buy it from sighthound.

I hope this light turns out to be a real winner. I hope Henry makes enough dough to keep the doors open long enough to maintain service of the light for many years to come. I hope the accessory battery tubes come out (BTW IMHO a AA tube makes this light way too long and throws the balance off Just because you may be able to use AA cells doesn't make this a great light IMHO) Heck a 17670 tube is too long making the older HDS lights unwieldy.

The next few weeks will be very telling (how behind schedule is this project already?)
When this light becomes available I suspect that there will be many who are very excited and a few who aren't.
I will be watching and waiting for these to start showing up on the secondary market before making a decision.
Lets hope this is the most amazing HDS light ever made.
Yaesumofo





tebore said:


> As much as I like Henry and love his lights. I'm with you on this one. The track record for HDS for following through with things is pretty smeared. There's a lot of fan boys out there (I'm one I'll admit) but to reach a larger crowd Henry and HDS is going to have to push hard to get the product to market, provide the support for the product and follow through with the accessories for the product.


----------



## kromeke (Jan 30, 2008)

Henry didn't run Arc Flashlight LLC. (The first Arc flashlight)

That was Peter's company. 

Who is at fault might depend on who you talk to. 

IIRC, Peter violated a NDA. Henry pulled out. This is what contracts and lawyers are for. 

Don't fault HDS for Arc's shortcomings.


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## JohnTz (Jan 30, 2008)

I talked with Henry today. He stated that due to some other delays (again his suppliers) and barring any production and assembly issues, we will have to wait till end of Feb and most likely March before the lights ship. The clip option will be "at least 6 months after that".

I am still waiting patiently. I sold my other led light (surefire) at the end of last year so I can afford the twisty. Now all I have is a min-mag in the meantime .


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## this_is_nascar (Jan 30, 2008)

Take it for what it's worth guys, but I've always considered HDS a fly-by-night type company. Here for the quick buck, gone before you know it. These light may come out eventually, maybe not, something will happen and HDS will go away and Henry will surface again somewhere else. This is my opinion, so please treat it as such.


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## powernoodle (Jan 30, 2008)

When the first HDS EDC was in the pipeline way back when, I recall very well numerous release dates being missed. We were all anxious to get the new light, and PO-ed every time a date was missed. I was one of the biggest crybabies.

But the light was eventually released, _*and it was dang good*._ And still is. The old light is behind the curve now that emitters have evolved, but there is no denying that Henry knows how to build an awesome light. Compact, feature-packed, good UI, and built so well you could literally throw it against a concrete wall.

The current twisty is not for me, but if something along the lines of the old HDS light with a new emitter hits the market, I'll be there.


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## paulr (Jan 30, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> Take it for what it's worth guys, but I've always considered HDS a fly-by-night type company. Here for the quick buck, gone before you know it. These light may come out eventually, maybe not, something will happen and HDS will go away and Henry will surface again somewhere else. This is my opinion, so please treat it as such.



Erm, HDS's priorities in flashlight design may be not be in the middle of CPF's beaten path, but the he's been making lights for than almost any of the other high-end flashlight companies that we could name. His first headlamp was in 1979 and I think not even Surefire was around then.


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## HDS_Systems (Jan 31, 2008)

Valpo_Hawkeye,

This week we received many more major parts. We are expecting the last batch next week when we return from SHOT. Sorry, I can only schedule vendors so far and then they do what they need to. If it takes a little longer to get good parts, then I am willing to wait. I anticipate shipping roughly two weeks after the last part shows up. But as I have said before, if I encounter a problem, I'll stop the production line and fix it rather than ship junk.

I expect to have high volume production within a few weeks of the first shipment so I anticipate getting through the back orders very quickly.

We have started assembling subsystems and I have to say that these lights assemble far better than any previous flashlights we have made.

Henry.


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## Kid9P (Jan 31, 2008)

RaLights Henry??? :candle:

Are you planning to drop the HDS name all together?


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Jan 31, 2008)

Henry, thanks for the update!


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## Tempest UK (Jan 31, 2008)

Does this mean the Twisty will have "Ra" markings when it ships, instead of HDS?

Regards,
Tempest


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## Babo (Jan 31, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> any updates, no matter how minor?




Last I heard, they would be ready by the time school goes back into session.

Of course, that was many months ago, and I'm not sure now which school year they were referring to.

Hope this helps.


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## MikeLip (Jan 31, 2008)

The Twistie seems to have a release timeline much like Vistas was - any day now!


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## AnimalHousePA (Jan 31, 2008)

I sorta expected this to happen before I ordered mine. Kinda feels like Charlie Brown...always getting the football yanked away from his foot everytime he goes to kick it. :shakehead I am pretty confident that one day in this year of Our Lord 2008, we will all receive our HDS/Ra Twisties. :toilet:


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## alanagnostic (Jan 31, 2008)

I do have some concerns about Henry's long-term business plans but I have no doubt about the quality of his lights. I will wait for as long as it takes to get an HDS/Ra Twisty. I've got plenty of other nice lights to keep me company while I wait.


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## thermal guy (Feb 2, 2008)

When i read the specs on the new twisty i was wishing Henry had made the med setting higher than 17LM but after spending several hours at work trying to locate a missing piece of equipment in some very dark trailers i found that the 10LM setting on my hds was more than enough light.I think Henry just might know what he is doing. Cant wait to see his new stuff


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## magic_elf (Feb 2, 2008)

With all this talk about indestructable lights, I wonder how long it will be before someone manufacters a flashlight with bullet proof glass lenses?


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## MikeLip (Feb 6, 2008)

Is it time to give up on the Twistie? It seems to keep getting pushed back. Does anyone have any clue as to when they might actually ship?


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## zerafull (Feb 6, 2008)

great


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## FredericoFreire (Feb 6, 2008)

Which Twisty model has the closer beam compared to the classic EDC model, the 70-Tw with narrower beam or the 100-Tw with its wider beam?


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## KenAnderson (Feb 6, 2008)

I've decided to move on. I was planning on picking up a twisty, but the more I wait and watch the more uneasy I become with ra lights. Too many good lights out there right now to waste another moment waiting when I could be using and experiencing life. I feel lighter already...

Cheers,

Ken


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## cave dave (Feb 6, 2008)

I kind of like the waiting. Its a lot cheaper than buying.


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## dulridge (Feb 6, 2008)

cave dave said:


> I kind of like the waiting. Its a lot cheaper than buying.




Works for me. And for the new Arc LS that also seems very, very interesting.

But too. 

From me: Don't release them any time soon


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Feb 18, 2008)

Any updates this week?


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## adamlau (Feb 18, 2008)

Can the Twisty be purchased sans (unnecessary) box and (even more unnecessary) batteries?


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## Frank Maddix (Feb 18, 2008)

adamlau said:


> Can the Twisty be purchased sans (unnecessary) box and (even more unnecessary) batteries?


OMG you can spell unnecessary. Look out world the US has come of age!


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## mspeterson (Feb 18, 2008)

Frank Maddix said:


> OMG you can spell unnecessary. Look out world the US has come of age!



Now thats funny! It would be better without the silly "omg", however. 
Or perhaps like this:

OMG! You can spell unnecessary.:twothumbs

This being said in the voice of B. Spears, or maybe that Powers chap with the bad teeth.:devil:


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## HDS_Systems (Feb 18, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye,

We expect to start shipping next week.

Henry.


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## parnass (Feb 19, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Valpo Hawkeye,
> 
> We expect to start shipping next week.
> 
> Henry.



That's good news.

Will they ship with pocket clips? What will the clips look like?

When will the HDS Twisty Flashlight User's Guide (PDF) be available for download from the www.hdslights.com web site?


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## FrogmanM (Feb 19, 2008)

Yes! can't wait! Thx for the update Henry!

Mayo


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## liteboy (Feb 19, 2008)

Henry, may I make a suggestion which I am sure many here will agree with. Please let Lighthound.com be a distributor for your products. I have had nothing but great purchase and customer support interactions with them. Thanks for the consideration. (I have no personal or financial association with lighthound btw)


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## FredericoFreire (Feb 19, 2008)

liteboy said:


> Henry, may I make a suggestion which I am sure many here will agree with. Please let Lighthound.com be a distributor for your products. I have had nothing but great purchase and customer support interactions with them. Thanks for the consideration. (I have no personal or financial association with lighthound btw)



2nd here! :twothumbs


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## yaesumofo (Feb 19, 2008)

Amazing after all this time there are now three people excited about this lights imminent release.
Henry has managed to whittle away quite a following.
OK OK I know there are more than three. BUT there are certainly substantially fewer people now waiting for HDS's next light than there were 3 months ago.
Lets hope that Henry somehow manages to turn a twisty into a highly sought after piece.

Yaesumofo


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## turbodog (Feb 19, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> Well, I guess that's my point. Why should we believe that these tubes are going to make it this time?



As I'm one of the two (or three) people to own one I can speak to the non-production of it a little.

Basically, the tube had spring problems. Even though the coil spring was MUCH better than the original springy-wire thing, it was still problematic, especially as the length grew.

The spring was long enough it had some momentum. It would lose contact if bumped, not dropped.

And on top of that, the 2aa had very disappointing performance; alkaline cells were not up the task at all.

In any case, I am glad research and production of it were dropped in favor of moving onto the next light.


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## txmatt (Feb 19, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Amazing after all this time there are now three people excited about this lights imminent release.
> Henry has managed to whittle away quite a following.
> OK OK I know there are more than three. BUT there are certainly substantially fewer people now waiting for HDS's next light than there were 3 months ago.
> Lets hope that Henry somehow manages to turn a twisty into a highly sought after piece.
> ...



Still excited here, but mainly excited about the possible 2xAA option. I probably will hold off until that becomes reality. In the meantime it will be cool to hear what people have to say about it. If the initially response is great I might even order a CR123 version even though I'm trying to standardize on AA.


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## Daylo (Feb 19, 2008)

Count me in for #3 for selling through Lighthound.com, nothing but good things to say here.


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## parnass (Feb 19, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> ... BUT there are certainly substantially fewer people now waiting for HDS's next light than there were 3 months ago.



Surefire announced 3 dual level lights recently -- each less expensive than the Twisty. Perhaps that accounts for a diminished excitement.

Nonetheless, I wish the Twisty product much success.


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## Russki (Feb 19, 2008)

I thing, the key for success would be programming possibility.
Look on Novatac: 120P most popular model.
I love my HDS lights, but will wait for programmable version, what ever its gona be twisty or clicky.
Well, what do I know?


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## Jack Lewis (Feb 19, 2008)

turbodog said:


> As I'm one of the two (or three) people to own one I can speak to the non-production of it a little....
> 
> And on top of that, the 2aa had very disappointing performance; alkaline cells were not up the task at all.
> 
> In any case, I am glad research and production of it were dropped in favor of moving onto the next light.



I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly... Are you saying that in the midst of research on the Twisty -- as it stumbled with the 2aa option -- Henry has moved on to his next light?

So is the Twisty's 2aa option cast aside, then?

Apologies if I've misunderstood...


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## BytorJr (Feb 19, 2008)

So there was mention of the Surefire lights that have 2 stages and a perceived lack of interest on the Twisty. I imagine both Ra Lights (HDS) and (please don't ban me for mentioning these in the same sentence) Arc Flashlight are going to have a hard go at selling a good quantity of lights. They, for some purpose, have missed the boat..IF Surefire can come out with their other lights.

That's not to say that Ra and Arc won't have sales, and I'm sure they are selling to a different group; but, with XX number of dollars to go around, sometimes first come is first bought. I wish them both success. 

I probably will buy NONE of the lights, Surefire, Arc, Ra. I've got too many as it stands and always go back to my HDS or my Novatac for serious night carry, and my Orbs for daily carry. My L5 Surefire functions as my "intruder" light. I don't need another light. Though, I've got to say...Surefire stuff interests me as does the Twisty.


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## mraymer (Feb 19, 2008)

Jack Lewis said:


> I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly... Are you saying that in the midst of research on the Twisty -- as it stumbled with the 2aa option -- Henry has moved on to his next light?
> 
> So is the Twisty's 2aa option cast aside, then?
> 
> Apologies if I've misunderstood...



I'm almost positive he was referring to the 2AA tube that was developed for the old HDS EDC lights that are no longer manufactured. TD owns one of the few 2AA tubes that was made for the original HDS EDC lights.


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## turbodog (Feb 19, 2008)

Jack Lewis said:


> I'm not sure I'm understanding correctly... Are you saying that in the midst of research on the Twisty -- as it stumbled with the 2aa option -- Henry has moved on to his next light?
> 
> So is the Twisty's 2aa option cast aside, then?
> 
> Apologies if I've misunderstood...



2aa tube was being developed for the original (pre novatac) HDS light.


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## yaesumofo (Feb 20, 2008)

Hell not only did they announce they DELIVERED one within several weeks of accidentally posting it on the Surefire web site. The E1B.
There really is something to be said about a policy of not announcing a product until you are ready to deliver it. This is the stated policy of HDS (They never seem to adhere to their own policy) and we have waited and waited. 
Surefire By "accident" announces a light and end users have it in their hands within weeks. 
Surefire had plenty of opportunity to develop a "BUZZ" on the E1B. They choose not to.
I really like the sometimes funny way surefire does business.
HDS on the other hand really needs some help. The "BUZZ" on the twisty has all but died. HDS attempted to resurrect it by naming it at the SHOT SHOW. BFD.
As I have said before I have lights which are related to this light I have pretty much all of them from the ARC 4 up. Now what kind of flashlight geek would I be if I did not add one of these to my collection.
Well I will tell you. One who will wait until a good deal can be found on one on the secondary market. One who will NOT preorder a light which will be available to anybody who wants one.
I know the unit I will want is one with the secondary red emitter.
I wish HDS was better at marketing their product.
Yaesumofo





parnass said:


> Surefire announced 3 dual level lights recently -- each less expensive than the Twisty. Perhaps that accounts for a diminished excitement.
> 
> Nonetheless, I wish the Twisty product much success.


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## BytorJr (Feb 20, 2008)

Definitely, though I hate marketing folks as a general rule, there are more than a few companies mentioned on CPF who could hire a marketing person on even a part time basis. Peak is the absolute worst in marketing so HDS/Ra has a leg up on them. Henry makes great lights, but I worry that unless the "cycle" gets going, he could be left out...that is, if he's wanting to have any kind of volume. Profit trumps volume, but only to an extent - raw profit trumps volume, not percent profit trumps volume. 

But it's bad juju to get the hope up and then not be able to get it out in time. The "new" HDS started off as "around school start" which was September!!! 6 months later, no light. Arc has been stirring up stuff for well over a year now, and no light. Surefire, says nothing, has a "wardrobe malfunction" and within 3 weeks the thing is being delivered!!!!!!!! Sounds like their marketing team and engineering team are at least in the same ballpark. 

I think from this point on, unless Henry brings out a programmable Ra I'm sticking with Surefire. Though....I like the Twisty for walking. I'm going to have to see reviews first. I'm cheering for Henry though, please don't get me wrong.


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## txmatt (Feb 20, 2008)

While I understand the frustration of delays in light shipment, once a light is out (if it comes out), what matters is how it performs, unless one just wants to make a statement by not supporting companies who early-announce or delay release. We've been waiting a while for the Twisty and longer for the new Arc. People also waited a long time for Surefire to release Cree-based lights (whether announced or not), but now that they're out, the fact that SF was late to the Cree party doesn't make their new lights any less capable.

The new, multi-level SF's look tempting, but the multi-click interface of the E1B doesn't sound as simple, intuitive, and unique as the Twisty has the potential of being. And the appeal of the Twisty is exactly that it's not programmable like the Novatac (no process to remember for programming or resetting if light freaks out, no way a user can accidentally get in programming mode, etc). If the Twisty works as advertised, it may be the most intuitive multi-level light available. To some, this creates a more appealing light even if it's not as customizable as a programmable light.

So here's hoping the Twisty release is imminent and it lives up to expectations. Another light available is just more choice we have: buy if you like, don't if you don't. It's all good.


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## FredericoFreire (Feb 20, 2008)

Intuitive operation, reliable, superb finish, awesome design, RCR-123 friendly, well known HDS brand, high output for its size. What else would you expect for a flashlight?


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Feb 20, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Amazing after all this time there are now three people excited about this lights imminent release.
> Henry has managed to whittle away quite a following.
> OK OK I know there are more than three. BUT there are certainly substantially fewer people now waiting for HDS's next light than there were 3 months ago.
> Lets hope that Henry somehow manages to turn a twisty into a highly sought after piece.
> ...


 
While I will admit that my level of excitement has dropped, I am still very much looking forward to the day that my new light from Henry is delivered. I've had one on pre-order and not thought once about canceling.

The nearly bombproof nature of the Twisty is something that I've not seen anywhere else!


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 20, 2008)

I think it's too early to see what the demand will be. I want to see a review or two before I buy one.


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## JohnTz (Feb 21, 2008)

In my opinion this light will be the perfect fit for people that do not read this forum. 

A typical non flashaholic user who wants quality (lifetime warranty, made in the US) beyond what is commonly available will get a light that is very useable (twisty is a no braininer UI), has multiple levels (opens the use for many different applications), is not fragile (so they can use it everyday for work and not worry about it) and has a small form factor (its small for it's output compared to other lights that most people are familiar with and can be easily carried).

This light may not excite flashaholics but it does excite this one who has just purchased some very expensive LED lights from custom builders (that are just too nice/expensive to carry everyday and use hard) but also wants one to throw one in the bag for work and not worry about if its gets dropped, nicked, scratched etc.

So I am really looking forward to it for everyday and when I get home or on weekends I play with the other ones and their complex UIs with their perfect shiny finishes:thumbsup:.

So start shipping these already Henry!


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## X Racer (Feb 21, 2008)

Although I am not as excited about this light as I was, I still think it could be a strong contender provided it offers performance on par with other high end lights available now. If the output and efficiency are up to the standards of the latest emmiters, then these lights will be the bomb. If they are not up to current emmiter specs, then I suspect these will not sell well...


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## Kiessling (Feb 21, 2008)

It is a very interesting light IMHO. I will get one if the first reviews are positive.
bernie


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## sawlight (Feb 21, 2008)

I also have no relevant interest in this light. It's a neat concept, and ver simple. Might be just what I need, I don't know.
Right now I am VERY happy with the Novatac!!

What I do find hard to understand is the bashing of Henry!! I have come to want an older HDS, just because of what I have read of them on here. Seems like they have an impecable reputation.
Remeber all the flak he caught for the Novatac problems because he was pushed to get them out? He openly admited he was not happy with the software as it stood, and I believe this is the reason he left Novatac in the end.
I certainly doubt he has the resources available that SF does, and I hope he waits ntil he is happy with this light before releasing it!!! He is a perfectionist at heart from what I have seen, and expects us to be, as well as expecting his product to perfom flawlessly!!!
Relax a bi, let him work his magic, I think it will WOW all of us when it has met his expectations!!


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## yaesumofo (Feb 21, 2008)

I understand what you are saying here. But as an owner of several of Henry's past works. I can say that they were/are far from perfect. Especially in the area of how the UI is implemented.
I find it amazing that Henry was unhappy with the Novatac firmware. The Novatac is 100% better and easier to operate than the ARC 4 and HDS lights.
There really is no comparison.
A light with the heavy duty factor of the HDS and the BEAM and UI of the Novatac would be the direction I would go in If I were working towards the "perfect" flashlight.

The Older HDS lights are very good lights once set up the way you want them. they are then easy to work if you stick to the basic on off and low low level adjustments.

I like my HDS lights. I like my Novatics too. 
I would like to see both companies become better at marketing their product. The I would like to see both companies become the best at what they do when it comes to servicing their product. This is very important.
Yaesumofo







saw light said:


> I also have no relevant interest in this light. It's a neat concept, and very simple. Might be just what I need, I don't know.
> Right now I am VERY happy with the Novatac!!
> 
> What I do find hard to understand is the bashing of Henry!! I have come to want an older HDS, just because of what I have read of them on here. Seems like they have an impeccable reputation.
> ...


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 21, 2008)

sawlight said:


> ... What I do find hard to understand is the bashing of Henry!! I have come to want an older HDS, just because of what I have read of them on here. Seems like they have an impecable reputation.
> Remeber all the flak he caught for the Novatac problems because he was pushed to get them out? He openly admited he was not happy with the software as it stood, and I believe this is the reason he left Novatac in the end.
> I certainly doubt he has the resources available that SF does, and I hope he waits ntil he is happy with this light before releasing it!!! He is a perfectionist at heart from what I have seen, and expects us to be, as well as expecting his product to perfom flawlessly!!!
> Relax a bi, let him work his magic, I think it will WOW all of us when it has met his expectations!!


The problem is his lights are so good people go crazy when they learn there is another delay in the release of his next light. If I were not happy with a light, I could care less if or when the next version is produced. Henry's lights and accessories are like popcorn, we don't want to stop after just one piece.


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## thermal guy (Feb 21, 2008)

Well i have several hds lights and several novatac lights and they are both good lights but IMO novatac is not even close to hds as far as build/quality.Yes the interface of my 120p beats the heck out of my hds but that is the only area that i feel it is better. The beam of hds lights has just the right amount of spill/throw and just holding the two you can feel the difference.I am not trying to get a battle going here just stating my opinion


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## orbital (Feb 21, 2008)

+








http://www.hdssystems.com/TwistyDetails.html

Simple & Solid....:thumbsup:


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## :)> (Feb 21, 2008)

I find it hard to believe that there are flashaholics who aren't excited about this light:shrug: Everything about it screams quality, innovation, supreme attention to detail AND performance.

For goodness sakes, what other manufacturer has taken the time to refine the design of a light to the point Henry has on this light? Every detail is taken into account and properly addressed. As other makers of high quality flashlight have stated before, a flashlight is so much more than just an LED and a battery... the Ra Twisty takes this concept to an extreme by over building and over engineering the rest of the light; leaving nothing to chance.

There are so many other "me too" lights out on the market today that, in my opinion, they are not relevant; the Twisty is relevant as it offers something that no other light today offers: real toughness. The Twisty is unique as there are no other lights in it's niche; ultra-rugged EDC lights.

If it performs as advertised, and I believe that it will, it will be *THE* light that outdoor enthusiasts bring with them because there are no other lights available that offer the promise of reliability and functionality that the Twisty offers. 

Backpackers, think about it for a minute; you are on an extended hike and away from civilization. Aren't reliability, ruggedness, waterproofness and runtime the most important features in a light? They are to me and the Ra / HDS Twisty stands at the top of the heap in these categoryies w/out sacrificing brightness options. 

What am I missing here? Add all of these benefits up and when you look at the Twisty, it will even LOOK nicer.


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## :)> (Feb 21, 2008)

orbital said:


> +
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
... and beautiful to boot! I can't freakin' wait for mine to get here:twothumbs


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## skalomax (Feb 21, 2008)

Couple of more days.


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## thermal guy (Feb 21, 2008)

Thank god! I thought i was the only one dieing to get my hands on this light.Like GOATEE said if you want a light that will get you there and back this will be the light.Henry makes some great lights and all of my hds lights have NEVER let me down and according to Henry his new twisty is much more rugged.


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## :)> (Feb 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Thank god! I thought i was the only one dieing to get my hands on this light.


 
You have no idea how badly I want mine to arrive... since I am among friends, I don't mind mentioning that I have dreamt about them:green:


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## skalomax (Feb 21, 2008)

LOL

I really want to see what leds are In the two twistys.


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## thermal guy (Feb 21, 2008)

As do i but i am still at a loss as to weather or not there will be 2 LED's in the tr model.I know that Henry has said that there will be 2, one in the middle one offset to the side but others have said that there will only be one anybody got the right answer?


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## Hodsta (Feb 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> As do i but i am still at a loss as to weather or not there will be 2 LED's in the tr model.I know that Henry has said that there will be 2, one in the middle one offset to the side but others have said that there will only be one anybody got the right answer?


 
I guess if Henry doesn't know how many LEDs are in his light we got bigger issues than a bit of a wait.

I pre-ordered mine from Battery Junction the day they started - has anyone heard anything about shipping from them?

I'm also very excited, just also a little pre-occupied with the 007:huh:


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Feb 21, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> As do i but i am still at a loss as to weather or not there will be 2 LED's in the tr model.I know that Henry has said that there will be 2, one in the middle one offset to the side but others have said that there will only be one anybody got the right answer?



I'm pretty sure it's a multi-die LED.

And I'm pretty pumped for mine to ship, too!


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## Groundhog66 (Feb 21, 2008)

HDS is like a Soap Opera these days, I haven't tuned in for months.....but I haven't missed a thing. I think it was wrong to pre-sell these lights when they were nowhere near ready to ship. Isn't this thing a non-programmable twisty light, I must be missing something.


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## turbodog (Feb 21, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> HDS is like a Soap Opera these days, I haven't tuned in for months.....but I haven't missed a thing. I think it was wrong to pre-sell these lights when they were nowhere near ready to ship. Isn't this thing a non-programmable twisty light, I must be missing something.



Maybe you are......

H has been known to backdoor a light before......

Then again, maybe not.


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## Groundhog66 (Feb 21, 2008)

turbodog said:


> Maybe you are......
> 
> H has been known to backdoor a light before......
> 
> Then again, maybe not.



Backdoor......:thinking:


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 21, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> HDS is like a Soap Opera these days, I haven't tuned in for months.....but I haven't missed a thing. I think it was wrong to pre-sell these lights when they were nowhere near ready to ship. Isn't this thing a non-programmable twisty light, I must be missing something.


They may be "pre sold" but BatteryStation lets people know what they are getting into.

From the HDS page on BatteryStation:
"NOTE: These are advance orders to ship when they arrive here. First to order will be first to ship and supply will be limited on the first run. Your creditcard will not be charged until the day your light ships. Not yet in stock."​This is an important point:
"Your creditcard will not be charged until the day your light ships."​


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## Groundhog66 (Feb 21, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> They may be "pre sold" but BatteryStation lets people know what they are getting into.
> 
> From the HDS page on BatteryStation:
> "NOTE: These are advance orders to ship when they arrive here. First to order will be first to ship and supply will be limited on the first run. Your creditcard will not be charged until the day your light ships. Not yet in stock."​This is an important point:
> "Your creditcard will not be charged until the day your light ships."​



No fault of Battery Station, I think this light was revealed WAY too soon by the manufacturer is all. Get your ducks in a row prior to working everyone into a frenzy, I think it definitely works against you in situations like this. Is this think really going to be "cutting edge technology", or just a milti-emitter twisty?


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Feb 21, 2008)

I don't think anyone would claim that this light is on the bleeding edge or even the cutting edge of technology. I can't speak for anyone else, but the reasons I pre-ordered the Twisty are:

HDS's reputation for quality/reliability
The simple operation
The apparent bomb-proof construction

My NovaTac had been acting up on me and I was getting frustrated. The Twisty came along and I thought, "Here's a light that has the same features that I use in my NovaTac without all the complication and potential weaknesses." I really only use ultra-low, primary and max. Only occasionally do I actually use secondary. What's more, the levels Henry selected for the Twisty are very close to those I have set up on my NT. My only adjustment would be a few clicks down on the low level.


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## Groundhog66 (Feb 21, 2008)

VH, I am with you....I will probably own one of these too. But my question regarding the technology has nothing to do with why anyone would pre-order, but more a question of why the heck it is taking so long to be released. Seems to me that this light has nothing that isn't out there already on one platform or another, so why the huge delays? I am not bashing, just questioning. I love my HDS:kiss:


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## yaesumofo (Feb 21, 2008)

IMHO McGizmo puts just as much thought into his lights as Henry does. Maybe more.
He manages to get lights out more consistently and doesn't abandon his end users. Which Henry does on a very consistent basis.
There is no doubt that to some this light is very interesting to others it is just another twisty. We will not know if it is a special light until some reach the hands of those who wait eagerly for the. Of course it is unlikely that hear anything bad about this light from any of them. Hell for all I know it may be the perfect light. We will see how good it is soon.

Yaesumofo





:)> said:


> I find it hard to believe that there are flashaholics who aren't excited about this light:shrug: Everything about it screams quality, innovation, supreme attention to detail AND performance.
> 
> For goodness sakes, what other manufacturer has taken the time to refine the design of a light to the point Henry has on this light? Every detail is taken into account and properly addressed. As other makers of high quality flashlight have stated before, a flashlight is so much more than just an LED and a battery... the Ra Twisty takes this concept to an extreme by over building and over engineering the rest of the light; leaving nothing to chance.
> 
> ...


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## BytorJr (Feb 21, 2008)

I know while I said I wasn't going to buy a Twisty (more than likely) it's not because I don't think Henry builds a good product. I just need a new car (or a new clutch and seals replaced in my engine on current car) more than a new flashlight. 

I have to say, I agree that the placement of the light levels is good. I find my HDS and Novatac are at lowest settings (or near lowest in the HDS), around 10 lm, 35-40lm, and max. Thus, I think for the Twisty he's done a good job.

I have no doubt it will be a tough light too. I am really just dreaming over the new Surefire 400lm model.


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 21, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> ... and doesn't abandon his end users. Which Henry does on a very consistent basis.


I don't know what you are talking about.

Not only is he talking care of his responsibilities, he has picked up the ball that another company had dropped, even though he has no obligation to do that.


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## X Racer (Feb 21, 2008)

You can please some of the people some of the time....................


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## Oddjob (Feb 22, 2008)

IIRC I have read that Henry was waiting on the machine shop to deliver and I can recall McGizmo being in the same boat in the past. Nothing you can do when you are waiting for someone else to deliver. I do think that maybe Henry could have waited until the lights were a little further along before announcing it like maybe when he had all the parts and the lights only needed assembly.:shrug: Or maybe when he announced the light he could have drastically over estimated the release date because its great for example when you first hear 6 months and then you are pleasantly surprised when it comes out in 3 months.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 22, 2008)

:)> said:


> I find it hard to believe that there are flashaholics who aren't excited about this light:shrug: Everything about it screams quality, innovation, supreme attention to detail AND performance.
> 
> For goodness sakes, what other manufacturer has taken the time to refine the design of a light to the point Henry has on this light? Every detail is taken into account and properly addressed. As other makers of high quality flashlight have stated before, a flashlight is so much more than just an LED and a battery... the Ra Twisty takes this concept to an extreme by over building and over engineering the rest of the light; leaving nothing to chance.
> 
> ...



I handled one of the new Twisties at Henry's table at SHOT. It has two leds for the red/white model. The red is offset. Henry is really an engaging guy, and is really commited to his product. His zeal is infectious and I want to try out the new RA, probably the 100lm model. 

I am sort of trying to figure out what direction this thread is going. Sometimes it seems to be a cheers type thread and other times a jeers type thread. 

Bill


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## turbodog (Feb 22, 2008)

Groundhog66 said:


> No fault of Battery Station, I think this light was revealed WAY too soon by the manufacturer is all. Get your ducks in a row prior to working everyone into a frenzy, I think it definitely works against you in situations like this. Is this think really going to be "cutting edge technology", or just a milti-emitter twisty?




This is a good point. What is 'cutting edge' now?

In the past cutting edge was a luxeon-based light in ANY form. Then we moved onto sequentially brighter emitters....... That's not cutting edge as much as it is a natural progression.

Surefire has the U2..... pretty cutting edge, regulation and 6 levels.

HDS has the original series. Regulation, programming, and single button interface.

At this point what more can be expected? Brighter emitters are simply a matter of time. Regulation has matured. Menus/options have matured in the clicky interface and twisty interface.

Cases are well-made. Spring problems in HDS/surefire are finally fixed.

The most cutting edge thing I've seen lately is surefire's always-in-focus focusable light, the next generation U2. And it's cool simply because of the focusing mechanism.

So, what is there to expect? You want bluetooth connectivity to your iphone so it can double as a movie projector also?


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## Groundhog66 (Feb 22, 2008)

turbodog said:


> So, what is there to expect? You want bluetooth connectivity to your iphone so it can double as a movie projector also?




Now THAT would be UBER COOL....:thumbsup:


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## gadgetnerd (Feb 22, 2008)

Personally I don't mind the wait for my preordered 70, it just gives me something to look forward to. It's taken a longer than expected, but I'm pretty sure Henry is not doing it to spite his supporters, and it is a bit disappointing to see the interval used for Henry bashing by those who seem to think themselves qualified to know what his motives were/are. 

I'm pretty sure most of the people on this thread are not actually suffering from a torch shortage, nor have their lives been affected by lack of a Ra twistie


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## alanagnostic (Feb 22, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye expressed my thoughts on this light very well. I'm not looking for the latest and greatest technology with the Twisty. I'm buying it for its reliability, simplicity and bombproofness. 

I did have troubles with one of my EDC clickies and got it replaced (before Novatac reneged on its warranty promise) but I think most would agree that the clickie is the most vulnerable part of the EDC. The Twisty eliminates that potential issue. I fully expect my new Twisty to become my new edc and be on my hip for many years to come.

Henry, just keep doing what you do best. I don't mind waiting for a superb flashlight.


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## precisionworks (Feb 22, 2008)

> the clickie is the most vulnerable part of the EDC



I'd go one step further & say that the switch on any light is the weakest link in the chain. The EDC switch has little load applied across the contacts, as the contacts function much like the keyboard on a PC - they provide a signal to the microchip & the microchip does the actual load switching.

From all I've read, the twist action will be more reliable. What would be even more bulletproof? Perhaps tactile buttons, like the keypad on a cell phone, which are totally sealed. One of those could provide the same function as the tailcap clickie with a longer MTBF (mean time between failure).


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## parnass (Feb 22, 2008)

alanagnostic said:


> ... I think most would agree that the clickie is the most vulnerable part of the EDC. The Twisty eliminates that potential issue. ....




Doesn't a twisty style switch introduce other problems, e.g., wearing of tailcap threads and O-rings?


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## alanagnostic (Feb 22, 2008)

The threads on the Twisty are supposed to be much more robust than older EDC models. I don't know how long it would take to wear them out but I have to believe it would be a long time. The O rings could be an issue but the light should still work with damaged O rings, it just might not be waterproof. Everything I've read has led me to believe that twisty lights are extremely reliable.


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## Hodsta (Feb 22, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> IMHO McGizmo puts just as much thought into his lights as Henry does. Maybe more.
> He manages to get lights out more consistently and doesn't abandon his end users. Which Henry does on a very consistent basis.
> There is no doubt that to some this light is very interesting to others it is just another twisty. We will not know if it is a special light until some reach the hands of those who wait eagerly for the. Of course it is unlikely that hear anything bad about this light from any of them. Hell for all I know it may be the perfect light. We will see how good it is soon.
> 
> Yaesumofo


 

Yaesumofo - as pointed out by others Henry is bailing out others on their warranties, so saying he abandons his customers is misinformed and just plain wrong.

Don McGizmo is one of the greats, he keeps readers posted and builds simply phenomenal lights, but even he is sufering a considerable delay in the release of the LunaSol due to circumstances outside of his control - we all accept this as not being his fault. You have also go to remember that Don builds custom lights in limited numbers for eager individuals.

Henry is not releasing a CPF special custom - he is releasing, distributing and marketing a volume production light that needs to succeed outside the confines of CPF. I don't blame him for taking his time for getting this spot on rather than blowing his reputation (and ability to market future lights) by releasing before it is ready. 

We are a cool bunch here at CPF but we are only one market that Henry needs to consider, he probably doesn't have the time to update us on every step along the way.


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## turbodog (Feb 22, 2008)

Hodsta said:


> ...
> We are a cool bunch here at CPF but we are only one market that Henry needs to consider he probably doesn't have the time to update us on every step along the way.



And, in case people wonder, CPF is a notoriously whiny bunch. I do not envy ANY dealer, manufacturer, modder, or designer that hangs out here.


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## Derek Dean (Feb 22, 2008)

turbodog said:


> And, in case people wonder, CPF is a notoriously whiny bunch. I do not envy ANY dealer, manufacturer, modder, or designer that hangs out here.


Amen!

Although I will say that along with all that whining seems to come a lot of good, honest feedback that I'm sure has contributed to the advancement of the art of flashlight design and production. 

BTW, I'm really looking forward to seeing Henry's newest lights, I've got a feeling they are going to be quite special.


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## Chronos (Feb 23, 2008)

:)> said:


> You have no idea how badly I want mine to arrive... since I am among friends, I don't mind mentioning that I have dreamt about them:green:


Sit back, relax, and please... Tell me more. 




You've nailed it goatster. This is a great light for hikers like me (or as I used to be...). This is one of a few production lights that really have me excited.


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## flashy bazook (Feb 23, 2008)

I think people are being too hard on a "delay" that is natural for custom and semi-custom, small-scale operations based in the U.S. (where, we've seen the problems with machine shops, not only for Ra lights).

Where people are being somewhat uncritical, though, is that the latest LEDs apparently are NOT being used.

The lumen output/runtimes are behind what the Q5's are producing in various flashlights and drop-in modules. If you get 70 lumens with 1 hour runtime in the Ra twisty, you can get about that at more than 3 times as many hours per CR123A with the Q5.

So the question really is not that there are delays, but that the delays are coming on top of what seems to be a fixed platform (=combination of LED and the electronic controls) which cannot adapt to the new updated LEDs.

So it's not really a criticism of the marketing, which I think has been very honest and open, but an issue with the ability of the design and implementation to provide the latest LEDs.

At least for me, paying top dollar is quite difficult if I don't get the best runtime/output combos available, at least as of the time when the light becomes available for purchase. Even if the whole design is not upgradeable after the point of purchase, at least I'd be getting equivalent value as of when I purchased the light.


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## JohnTz (Feb 23, 2008)

VERY good point flashy. I guess the answer is that Henry probably purchased bunch of Q4's early on and now he is stuck with them and that is too bad. Maybe in the future knowing the delays from machining, etc maybe these guys can order the led last. It is amazing that he won't state what they are. The first person to get one will spill the beans anyway. I don't understand the logic for this.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 23, 2008)

JohnTz said:


> VERY good point flashy. I guess the answer is that Henry probably purchased bunch of Q4's early on and now he is stuck with them and that is too bad. Maybe in the future knowing the delays from machining, etc maybe these guys can order the led last. It is amazing that he won't state what they are. The first person to get one will spill the beans anyway. I don't understand the logic for this.



We do not know this. I do now that Henry told me at SHOT that he is using Seoul P4's and they are heat sinked solidly. Seoul P4's have a flux that is very close to the Cree Q5. The Seoul P4 works very well with a reflector. I would expect that he is selecting his emitters based on vf and flux and to some degree tint, though I am less sure about tint. I do not know why Henry has made no public comment about the emitters.

Bill


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## Hans (Feb 23, 2008)

JohnTz said:


> I guess the answer is that Henry probably purchased bunch of Q4's early on and now he is stuck with them and that is too bad. Maybe in the future knowing the delays from machining, etc maybe these guys can order the led last. It is amazing that he won't state what they are. The first person to get one will spill the beans anyway. I don't understand the logic for this.



That's pure speculation. Nobody knows so far which LEDs Henry is using in these lights. He did exactly the same with the HDS - he never stated which bins he used in his lights. He did guarantee though that *all* the lights he shipped worked exactly to specification. And they did.

Hans


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## Hans (Feb 23, 2008)

flashy bazook said:


> Where people are being somewhat uncritical, though, is that the latest LEDs apparently are NOT being used.
> 
> The lumen output/runtimes are behind what the Q5's are producing in various flashlights and drop-in modules. If you get 70 lumens with 1 hour runtime in the Ra twisty, you can get about that at more than 3 times as many hours per CR123A with the Q5.
> 
> So the question really is not that there are delays, but that the delays are coming on top of what seems to be a fixed platform (=combination of LED and the electronic controls) which cannot adapt to the new updated LEDs.



The "old" HDS lights perform very well with new LEDs. A lot of people put Seouls in their lights, and they work great. Claiming Henry is using a "fixed platform" which "cannot adapt to the new updated LEDs" seems me to be well over the top.

In addition you don't know which LEDs Henry is using. Henry always gives the "real" output of his lights, not the emitter lumens like some other manufacturers. I don't doubt Henry's 70 lumens will be pretty close to 130 lumens of some popular lights. He's also always been pretty conservative with the stated runtime of his lights. Most of the "old" HDS lights have longer runtimes than stated. 

Hans


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 23, 2008)

Does anybody have a link to a credible test so we can see what the difference in runtime would be for a two lights at the same lumen level?

Some people prefer the beam of a Seoul because you can use a reflector without seeing a Cree ring. You also don't have to stomp on the throw with a textured reflector to get rid of the Cree ring.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 23, 2008)

Hans said:


> That's pure speculation. Nobody knows so far which LEDs Henry is using in these lights. He did exactly the same with the HDS - he never stated which bins he used in his lights. He did guarantee though that *all* the lights he shipped worked exactly to specification. And they did.
> 
> Hans



Read post 161. I talked to Henry at SHOT this month.

Bill


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## flashy bazook (Feb 24, 2008)

Hans said:


> The "old" HDS lights perform very well with new LEDs. A lot of people put Seouls in their lights, and they work great. Claiming Henry is using a "fixed platform" which "cannot adapt to the new updated LEDs" seems me to be well over the top.
> 
> In addition you don't know which LEDs Henry is using. Henry always gives the "real" output of his lights, not the emitter lumens like some other manufacturers. I don't doubt Henry's 70 lumens will be pretty close to 130 lumens of some popular lights. He's also always been pretty conservative with the stated runtime of his lights. Most of the "old" HDS lights have longer runtimes than stated.
> 
> Hans


 
The old HDS's were simpler lights that were easier to mod/upgrade. The board on this baby is programmable (though, at least initially, at the factory). Maybe not so simple to upgrade for a given user.

On your other point, personally I'm getting tired of hearing how lumens cannot be measured properly. We have runtime evidence from MANY different Q5-based products. For you to throw about 70=130 statements like that is insupportable. We are not talking marginal differences, we are talking 3x differences here, and these cannot be talked away by a wave of the hand.

A decision was made as to which LED to use in this flashlight, and this has consequences. We should all be clear as to what these consequences are and not try to hide them.


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## Art Vandelay (Feb 24, 2008)

flashy bazook said:


> We have runtime evidence from MANY different Q5-based products.


Does any of that evidence compare the Q5 to the P4? If anybody has a link, I'd like to see a comparison. Emitter lumens or out the front lumens are fine, as long as the same standard is used for both LEDs. My guess is the Q5 is more efficient. I'd like to know how big the difference is. Beamshots would also be nice because I'm pickier than most when it comes to beam color and shape.


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## Frank Maddix (Feb 25, 2008)

mspeterson said:


> Now thats funny! It would be better without the silly "omg", however.
> Or perhaps like this:
> 
> OMG! You can spell unnecessary.:twothumbs
> ...


I'm sorry - you're quite right.
The wait is sending me a little doolally.


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## precisionworks (Feb 25, 2008)

Kevin at Battery Station just emailed and said _First round of them should be here late this week._


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## :)> (Feb 25, 2008)

Please God! Let mine come in the first order and I promise... well I never really keep those promises, but I really, really want mine to come this week.

Really, really!


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## AnimalHousePA (Feb 25, 2008)

precisionworks said:


> Kevin at Battery Station just emailed and said _First round of them should be here late this week._


I just hope that Battery Station will send the lights out to us as soon as they get them from HDS. There should be no reason for even a one day delay in getting these orders fulfilled and shipped to us.


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## Bullzeyebill (Feb 25, 2008)

AnimalHousePA said:


> I just hope that Battery Station will send the lights out to us as soon as they get them from HDS. There should be no reason for even a one day delay in getting these orders fulfilled and shipped to us.



Kevin will get them out as soon as he can. He is a CPF member also, and understands that we can be impatient and want our toys asap. 

Bill


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## PatS (Feb 25, 2008)

Remember that he has to take each light and re-package them with the appropriate color box and batteries. Depending on the number he gets in, this could take a day or two.

Now that we know the lights will be coming soon, I would really like to see the operating manual available online.


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## FrogmanM (Feb 25, 2008)

looking forward to my low red/useful white beamed edc tankbuster of a light!:thumbsup:

Mayo


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## turbodog (Feb 26, 2008)

AnimalHousePA said:


> I just hope that Battery Station will send the lights out to us as soon as they get them from HDS. There should be no reason for even a one day delay in getting these orders fulfilled and shipped to us.



Exactly. In fact, he is going to change his name to cpf-batterystation next week.

Not like he has any other customers.


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## AnimalHousePA (Feb 26, 2008)

turbodog said:


> Exactly. In fact, he is going to change his name to cpf-batterystation next week.
> 
> Not like he has any other customers.


 
Good...please make sure there are exactly 5 Energizer 123 batteries in my free Pelican 1010 case. The Ra Twisty orders need complete and immediate attention. I'm glad that we are his only customers!


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## AnimalHousePA (Feb 27, 2008)

Any HDS/Ra Twisty updates?


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## skalomax (Feb 27, 2008)

Kevin at Batterystation replied to my email saying that the HDS Twistys were on route to them as we speak. :thumbsup:


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Feb 27, 2008)

Sweet! Everyone cross their fingers for me. Since they are first in/first out, I may or may not be in the first run.


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## Strauss (Feb 28, 2008)

Does anyone know how many lights Matt will be getting in this first shipment? And if we have that figure, how many have been pre-ordered already?


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## yaesumofo (Feb 28, 2008)

The "older" HDS lights were also "programmable"
Each light was "tuned" based on output and current draw before leaving the factory. This was the only way that Henry was able to make a consistent product ensuring the output would be what it was supposed to be.
This was a sort of common platform allowing them to detune lights if necessary. The Easter egg also allowed everybody to have the same feature set (it was a pain in the *** though).
The idea of programming flashlights is not new. even the ARC 4 were "programmed".
This new light will be no different.
What would be nice is an end user interface. Allowing us to change the low level drive or lowering the high level. or just electronically signing the light in case of loss.
There are a lot of cool things which could be done with a serial interface to the flashlight.
Yaesumofo 





flashy bazooka said:


> The old HDS's were simpler lights that were easier to mod/upgrade. The board on this baby is programmable (though, at least initially, at the factory). Maybe not so simple to upgrade for a given user.
> 
> On your other point, personally I'm getting tired of hearing how lumens cannot be measured properly. We have runtime evidence from MANY different Q5-based products. For you to throw about 70=130 statements like that is insupportable. We are not talking marginal differences, we are talking 3x differences here, and these cannot be talked away by a wave of the hand.
> 
> A decision was made as to which LED to use in this flashlight, and this has consequences. We should all be clear as to what these consequences are and not try to hide them.


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## JohnTz (Feb 28, 2008)

I talked to Henry yesterday. He hasn't shipped any lights yet. He is hoping to ship on Friday or Monday. He said that the shipment will not come close to fullfilling the pre orders. He is expecting to ship small batches weekly and get to full production by the end of March.


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## Kiessling (Feb 28, 2008)

I am very glad there is no end user interface or easter egg or whatever thing with the Twisty. I personally do not want my light to be programmed or customized, I want it to work how it is supposed to, and programmable interfaces get in the way and consume brain power.

I only buy lights that fit my needs from the beginning. No need to tweak them any further.

bernie


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## alanagnostic (Feb 28, 2008)

Well I'm glad Henry has enought pre-orders to keep him busy for a while....but it looks like I'll be waiting for many more weeks to get my Twisty. I'm still really looking forward to my new edc (not associated with the Novatac EDC which is the sole property of Novatac Inc. and is patented under the US Patent Act of 1869) all rights reserved.:wave:


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## Russki (Feb 28, 2008)

Well, everybody got different opinions. Personally I will not by new HDC until it become programmable.
I like to set my own light levels, and it is so mach fan to play with those lights. 
Hope it gona be user upgradable too.


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## AnimalHousePA (Feb 28, 2008)

Can anyone confirm if these lights have at least been shipped to Battery Station from HDS???


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## skalomax (Feb 28, 2008)

Yeah, I'm confused. I sent Kevin another Email, but no answer yet.


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## AnimalHousePA (Feb 28, 2008)

skalomax said:


> Yeah, I'm confused. I sent Kevin another Email, but no answer yet.


:thumbsup:


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## JohnTz (Feb 29, 2008)

Still have not shipped. Henry found some glitch and is working on it. Maybe he can get some out on Mon. Maybe Henry can make some definitive statement here so we are all on the same page.


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## AnimalHousePA (Feb 29, 2008)




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## alanagnostic (Mar 1, 2008)

My anticipation for this light is in a holding pattern. Nothing to see here people....move along.:nana:


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## txmatt (Mar 1, 2008)

To kill some time... did anybody order (or will have access to) both the 70-Tr and 100-Tw Twisty versions? It would be neat to hear a comparison, see beamshots, or get some measurements from the same person. I'm guessing the difference between 70 and 100 lumens will be minimal visually. I'd also like to see how the low white compares to the low red. Inquiring minds will want to know.


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## seery (Mar 2, 2008)

txmatt said:


> To kill some time... did anybody order (or will have access to) both the 70-Tr and 100-Tw Twisty versions?


Goatee has both on order and is probably pretty close to front of the line. :twothumbs


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## thermal guy (Mar 2, 2008)

OK i having a real hard time waiting for this light! Wow my g/f right I'm a geek


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## alanagnostic (Mar 2, 2008)

No problem being a "flashlight geek" around here... you're among friends. Now any other kind of geek is a whole other story. I'm interested in the beamshots of the different versions too. Not that I'll be buying another Twisty soon. I've made my choice...I chose "less reliable" over "less efficient".


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 4, 2008)

Any news out there?


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## carrot (Mar 4, 2008)

The original EDC was never a light I was interested in because I have an intense distaste for multi-function lights that must be toggled on and off to be used but this 3-level twisty sounds perfect. I am very interested in the Twisty and you can count me a customer as soon as the pocket clip situation is worked out. The Twisty is also one of two lights I am looking forward to this year. 

I am in no hurry as I have a perfectly "acceptable" McLux PD-S and the spec on the Twisty sounds fine to me. Now that LED's have reached a point where they can be "bright enough" for many tasks and their hosts run "long enough" to seem like they last forever, being on the cutting edge no longer seems important either. I'm also certain that nobody here on CPF is dying because they can't get their hands on a Twisty, and the delays only reinforce my belief that Henry is the perfectionist others claim him to be, which can only be good for the customer. My current EDC has been with me under the best and worst of conditions and I expect the Twisty will perform no less. 

I believe the Twisty certainly provide an excellent and reliable companion or complementary light. The great thing about little lights like these is that they are infinitely useful and can be carried everywhere without seeming odd or out of place. 

Remember that many people carry unmodded Mini-Mags or perhaps the simple Photon which are by far obsolete compared to the toys we are used to playing with. They obviously seem to get along fine, so having specs several times greater than the "industry standard" should certainly fulfull the tasks at hand as well. All of us should have something that can hold us over until the Twisty's imminent release.


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## turbodog (Mar 4, 2008)

Only thing Henry's going to be on time for is his funeral!


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## CRESCENDOPOWER (Mar 5, 2008)

carrot said:


> The original EDC was never a light I was interested in because I have an intense distaste for multi-function lights that must be toggled on and off to be used but this 3-level twisty sounds perfect. I am very interested in the Twisty and you can count me a customer as soon as the pocket clip situation is worked out. The Twisty is also one of two lights I am looking forward to this year.
> 
> I am in no hurry as I have a perfectly "acceptable" McLux PD-S and the spec on the Twisty sounds fine to me. Now that LED's have reached a point where they can be "bright enough" for many tasks and their hosts run "long enough" to seem like they last forever, being on the cutting edge no longer seems important either. I'm also certain that nobody here on CPF is dying because they can't get their hands on a Twisty, and the delays only reinforce my belief that Henry is the perfectionist others claim him to be, which can only be good for the customer. My current EDC has been with me under the best and worst of conditions and I expect the Twisty will perform no less.
> 
> ...


 
There is no way I could have said it better!:thumbsup:


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## Oddjob (Mar 5, 2008)

carrot said:


> ... All of us should have something that can hold us over until the Twisty's imminent release.



Agreed. My current lights along with my new found interest in knives is keeping me content at the moment and the Twisty will simply add to the fun whenever it comes out.


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## Russki (Mar 5, 2008)

Where the hell is new HDS, checking this treed every day-no news?
I am not buying one until it become programmable, but still want to see review and staff.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 5, 2008)

Russki said:


> I am not buying one until it become programmable



:shakehead I think you're missing the point of this light. Additionally, I wouldn't plan on a programmable version of this exact light any time soon.


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## Russki (Mar 5, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> :shakehead I think you're missing the point of this light. Additionally, I wouldn't plan on a programmable version of this exact light any time soon.


 
Maybe you right, but for me, light this expensive must be programmable
Well, I always can change my mind. But first let see it at list.
I am desperate.


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## :)> (Mar 5, 2008)

Russki said:


> I am desperate.


 
It will ease the pain if you pre-order... I have found that the desperation has subsided considerably since I pre-ordered these lights:green:


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## Russki (Mar 5, 2008)

:)> said:


> It will ease the pain if you pre-order... I have found that the desperation has subsided considerably since I pre-ordered these lights:green:


 
You know funny thing I did preordered, I guess I was one of firsts.
(that how I like my B42 and U60)
But it’s taking so long, that my credit card expired. Isn’t funny.


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## sorgun (Mar 5, 2008)

Russki said:


> You know funny thing I did preordered, I guess I was one of firsts.
> (that how I like my B42 and U60)
> But it’s taking so long, that my credit card expired. Isn’t funny.


 
I have the same problem. So any news from Henry would be greatly apreciated. I need to get it sorted out shortly because of my cards ex. date

Gunnar


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## AnimalHousePA (Mar 5, 2008)




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## magic_elf (Mar 5, 2008)

It would probably be a good idea it there was a programmable version.
Then people who prefer the simple modes can just program it once to do so like the NovaTac P series, and those who like to fiddle will still have the option to. Covers both camps doesn't it?


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## Art Vandelay (Mar 5, 2008)

magic_elf said:


> It would probably be a good idea it there was a programmable version.
> Then people who prefer the simple modes can just program it once to do so like the NovaTac P series, and those who like to fiddle will still have the option to. Covers both camps doesn't it?



Maybe it has a 500 twist Easter egg like the HDS EDC, that turned the non programmable HDS EDC lights into programmable ones.
:devil:


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## turbodog (Mar 6, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> Maybe it has a 500 twist Easter egg like the HDS EDC, that turned the non programmable HDS EDC lights into programmable ones.
> :devil:




Exactly. 500 twists turn you into a carpal-tunnel afflicted person and the light into a pile of aluminum shavings.


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## Oddjob (Mar 6, 2008)

Art Vandelay said:


> Maybe it has a 500 twist Easter egg like the HDS EDC, that turned the non programmable HDS EDC lights into programmable ones.
> :devil:



I wouldn't at all be surprised if there were some simple combination of twists i.e. low-med-low-med-low-high etc. (you get the picture) to reprogram it.:thinking: What do you guys think?


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## alanagnostic (Mar 6, 2008)

I know that I'm not going to twist MY Twisty thousands of times to figure out if there is a way to reprogram it. I might try if Henry actually said there was a way to do it, but I'm not going to try it just because it could be there.  I've accepted that this light will not be programmable.


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## Kiessling (Mar 6, 2008)

If there is any way of programming it, I am out. I want KISS with that light. If I get KISS+X, it isn't interesting any longer.
bernie


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## Hans (Mar 6, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> If there is any way of programming it, I am out. I want KISS with that light. If I get KISS+X, it isn't interesting any longer.
> bernie



Well, even the "old" HDS is sorta a KISS-light ...  I programmed mine *once*, and I've been using them as KISS-lights ever since. No need to change anything once I got the options set the way I like them.

Hans


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## Kiessling (Mar 6, 2008)

The beauty of a KISS light is that it is just right out of the box. No need to invest time and energy to tweak it. It just works.
AND ... even more important, a KISS light does not offer failure because of accidently bumping in menues or activating easter eggs. It is failsafe in that regard.
AND ... it doesn't multi-click.

Programming is a real turn-off, for me at least. This light might be a chance to get a real KISS light. A rare occurance these days, unfortunately.

bernie


P.S.: I accidently bumped into an easter egg upon changing the batteries in my SPY ... what a freaking chaos. Had to look up the manual to get it right again.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 6, 2008)

I hope this is one of those times when "no news is good news"...


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## alanagnostic (Mar 6, 2008)

I don't mind programming lights but that's what my EDC's are for. The Twisty is going to be my simple, indestructible light that will work no matter what. At least that is what I'm hoping for, and if Henry's other creations are any indication, that is exactly what I'll get.


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## AnimalHousePA (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm not concerned at all with the possibility of an easter egg or any other sort of function. I read the description of the light carefully before I pre-ordered and now all I care about is getting the light that I pre-ordered in November in my hands. Did HDS ship to the dealers yet? That is single most important question. Also, once these dealers receive these lights, how long after will it take for them to get them out to us?


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## Oddjob (Mar 6, 2008)

The levels had to be programmed somehow wouldn't it have? I don't see how gaining programmable access (be it 10 or 100 twist combinations) would detract from it's normal everyday simplicity. Henry has stated that the light already has more than just the three light levels programmed into it. For example, when the light steps down due to low battery form 100 lumens, it will not step down to 17 lumens. IIRC Henry wrote the it would step down to about 50 lumens so even though it is a simple interface it already has some inherent complexity. I would not mind if there was a way to reprogram it for this reason. For me, if programming is possible because of the way the light was made then I wouldn't mind taking advantage of it but if there is no possibility then that's fine as well. Just my $0.02.


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## Not_Holic (Mar 7, 2008)

If this light is programmable by Henry, and it doesn't ship with the ability of the paying user to set the levels to his/her own requirements, it is really just **crippled** right out of the box. Why should the ultimate user just accept Henry's own preferences, right or wrong, as their own?


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 7, 2008)

Not_Holic said:


> If this light is programmable by Henry, and it doesn't ship with the ability of the paying user to set the levels to his/her own requirements, it is really just **crippled** right out of the box. Why should the ultimate user just accept Henry's own preferences, right or wrong, as their own?



You're kidding, right? With very few exceptions, every light comes "crippled", as you describe.


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## Kiessling (Mar 7, 2008)

Oddjob said:


> The levels had to be programmed somehow wouldn't it have? I don't see how gaining programmable access (be it 10 or 100 twist combinations) would detract from it's normal everyday simplicity. Henry has stated that the light already has more than just the three light levels programmed into it. For example, when the light steps down due to low battery form 100 lumens, it will not step down to 17 lumens. IIRC Henry wrote the it would step down to about 50 lumens so even though it is a simple interface it already has some inherent complexity. I would not mind if there was a way to reprogram it for this reason. For me, if programming is possible because of the way the light was made then I wouldn't mind taking advantage of it but if there is no possibility then that's fine as well. Just my $0.02.



Easy answer: because I can accidently access a menu and mess everything up. because I have to remember the menu is there and how to reset the light, in case something goes wrong. Because the person that uses the light other than me might do the same and be even more puzzled than I am by a menu.

This would not be KISS, it would not be safe no-brainer operation, it would not be for me. But that is just me, of course.
If it will be programmable, this saves me some $$ 

bernie


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## Oddjob (Mar 7, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Easy answer: because I can accidently access a menu and mess everything up. because I have to remember the menu is there and how to reset the light, in case something goes wrong. Because the person that uses the light other than me might do the same and be even more puzzled than I am by a menu.
> 
> This would not be KISS, it would not be safe no-brainer operation, it would not be for me. But that is just me, of course.
> If it will be programmable, this saves me some $$
> ...



I hear you Bernie. It would be a hassle to hand it to someone and then maybe get it back in options mode. I do understand what you mean about KISS after all my favourite light is still my PD-S. It's just that because the potential is there I wouldn't mind being able to. When I got my PD and PD-S I knew that there was no potential and I was and still am very happy. I guess the techno geek in me comes out if there is even a hint of programmability. I hope it is not programmable so your wallet can shed some weight:nana:I'll be happy if it is not and I'm sure you will be too. Cheers!


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## turbodog (Mar 7, 2008)

No shipping news I take it?


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## skalomax (Mar 7, 2008)

Another week gone.
Next week, for sure!


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## AnimalHousePA (Mar 7, 2008)

what a joke! :thumbsdow


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## paxxus (Mar 8, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Easy answer: because I can accidently access a menu and mess everything up. because I have to remember the menu is there and how to reset the light, in case something goes wrong. Because the person that uses the light other than me might do the same and be even more puzzled than I am by a menu.
> 
> This would not be KISS, it would not be safe no-brainer operation, it would not be for me. But that is just me, of course.
> If it will be programmable, this saves me some $$
> ...


I believe the EDC-B60 and B42 lights were around for years without anybody accidentally entering the menu 

I'm somewhat puzzled by the idea that a programmable light automatically makes it less easy to use - it depends entirely on how the programmability is implemented. If done right you'll never notice it's there if you don't need it. Also, the Twisty is micro-processor controlled already. It's not like it somehow makes the microprocessor operation more robust by executing the same fixed programming over and over, that's just not how digital electronics work.

Anyway, about the Twisty: :candle:


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## alanagnostic (Mar 8, 2008)

I have never entered the menu mode accidentially, but I was just reading about members giving kids flashlights or letting them use their own lights. I can picture some 5 or 6 year-old clicking 10 times just for the fun of it. Next thing you know your light is flashing SOS. I doubt it would happen much, but some kids have a way of figuring things out.

Either way, I want to try out Henry's newest creation. I've got a very good feeling about this light.


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## JohnTz (Mar 8, 2008)

Still waiting for rHenry to say something about why he missed delivery two weeks ago.


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## FrogmanM (Mar 8, 2008)

No problum mahn! Da Partah stay goin on mon!

I'm in no hurry I just want the light to be ok when I get it, so I don't have to send it back in for fixin ye hear

Mayo

Cool Runnings!


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## Tempest UK (Mar 8, 2008)

Willing as I am to wait for the light to be ready, an update would be nice.

Regards,
Tempest


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## Daniel_sk (Mar 8, 2008)

How does the switching work? Does it rely on the aluminum threads as other flashlights that have a twistie switch? Because the threads get dirty by time and aluminum wears out...


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Mar 8, 2008)

Daniel_sk said:


> How does the switching work? Does it rely on the aluminum threads as other flashlights that have a twistie switch? Because the threads get dirty by time and aluminum wears out...


 
I agree. The contacts wearing on the battery ends also causes problems (the one fault with every one of my Peak lights).

However, Henry made mention of some very special lubricant that he is using in the Twisty (and said that some will be included with every light). Going to be interesting to see how the Twisty holds up (trying very hard to not make some sort of "comment" about when they may arrive)


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## DM51 (Mar 8, 2008)

Theatre Booth Guy said:


> Henry made mention of some very special lubricant


Oh no - not _another_ lube thread, lol


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## yaesumofo (Mar 8, 2008)

Only if they have multiple levels which are arbitrarily set.
VS MIN MAX and MID.

So a minimum of 3,4,5,6,7 LUMEN? a mid of 30 35 40 45 50 Lumen? a max 100 That's the max right?
OK so how much latitude is there? How much is needed?

So if the levels are 3 50 and 100 how much different will 3 40 and 100 be?

Crippled? I don't know.
I suppose that if you buy a 3 level light which are not adjustable then you are just sort of stuck with it.
If you want or need something different you may have to go into the business yourself.
An update would be nice. But the old axiom It will be done when it's is done is true here. All the crying, whining and yelling and screaming will not speed things up. You can be sure that Henry wants to get this thing out into the wild asap. But if it is not ready then it just isn't ready. 
Whatever.
Yaesumofo





Valpo Hawkeye said:


> You're kidding, right? With very few exceptions, every light comes "crippled", as you describe.


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## Daniel_sk (Mar 8, 2008)

Theatre Booth Guy said:


> The contacts wearing on the battery ends also causes problems (the one fault with every one of my Peak lights).


The battery contact problem might be less serious in the new Ra light, it looks like it has spring contacts on both ends - thus mainting a very good contact even if there is some wear on the material (because the springs will push against the battery). At least from what I can see on this picture (part 11 and 13):






I am getting somewhat excited over the new Ra flashlight. I don't like the looks of it, but function and reliability comes first. It's not my price range, but I guess I can sell my Nitecore on CPFMP and save some money? 

Someone mentioned a white+red LED is used in the Ra-70 line. Does the Ra-70-Tw use the same LED as Ra-70-Tr? The HDS website mentions that only the Ra-70-Tr has a red low output mode.


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## BytorJr (Mar 8, 2008)

Wow, poor Henry; this thread has become brutal.

I know I've commented before in this thread but some things kind of irritate me on how it's going for the "programability" of this new beast:
1) Henry never said it was going to be programmable, so why start carping about it so soon before release?

2) Why isn't their more consternation against Surefire for "arbitrarily" picking the levels of the E1B, et al? 

My point is, are we truly giving Henry any credit here...at least in the last 2 or 3 pages of posts? Seems not. Heck, at this rate, if I were Henry I'd be starting to get a little crabby.

Just my 0.02.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 8, 2008)

BytorJr said:


> 2) Why isn't their more consternation against Surefire for "arbitrarily" picking the levels of the E1B, et al?



+1


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## skalomax (Mar 9, 2008)

Ok ok, guys.
I just received an email regarding these HDS Twistys.

Kevin said, "It's my understanding that these lights are on route to us"

Let's hope for the best.


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## AnimalHousePA (Mar 9, 2008)

JohnTz said:


> Still waiting for rHenry to say something about why he missed delivery two weeks ago.


 
me too :candle:


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## seery (Mar 9, 2008)

skalomax said:


> Ok ok, guys.
> I just received an email regarding these HDS Twistys.
> 
> Kevin said, "It's my understanding that these lights are on route to us"




The race is on...who will be the first to post a mini-review? :naughty:


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## FrogmanM (Mar 9, 2008)

skalomax said:


> Kevin said, "It's my understanding that these lights are on route to us"


 
Sounds good to me!

Mayo


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## skalomax (Mar 10, 2008)

Just canceled my order.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 10, 2008)

skalomax said:


> Just canceled my order.



??? With the "end" seeming to be so close... Did you hear something else from Kevin?


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## JohnTz (Mar 10, 2008)

I cancelled my order as well. Figured If I had to wait I would rather wait for the Arc. I bet the twisty will be a nice light as well. Can't wait for the first reviews.


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## skalomax (Mar 10, 2008)

Just didn't want to get charged unexpectedly.

According to Kevin, I was one of the first 10 orders too.


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## alanagnostic (Mar 10, 2008)

I wish I was one of the first ten in line. I have no idea where I am on the list but wherever it is I won't be canceling my order. I'm still really looking forward to the Twisty no matter when I get it.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 10, 2008)

I guess Tom Petty was right... the waiting _is_ the hardest part. Any morsels of info, Henry?


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## yaesumofo (Mar 10, 2008)

In the past Henry has set the levels in a pretty predictable way. Not arbitrary at all.
He has always set the levels based upon the power levels of the emitted light.

I believe that he has aligned the rain the same way. But that remains to be seen.
Yaesumofo 



Valpo Hawkeye said:


> +1


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## BytorJr (Mar 11, 2008)

yaesumofo, maybe I misunderstood you, or you me; but, my point about the light levels is that Henry seems to be getting hammered for some reason now about the light levels. I don't see near as much hammering going on about Surefire levels on the E1B (or maybe I haven't been reading enough). That's all. I hope Henry gets this puppy out ASAP so the choir will sing a better song.


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## yaesumofo (Mar 11, 2008)

I don't actually see a whole lot of people "hammering " Henry for his level choices. They generally are selections based upon how to have the light operate efficiently.
Surefire? Why bother? Surefire is not going to change their drive levels just because a couple of Cpf's whine about it.
Surefire, I am sure, puts a lot of thought and energy into determining drive levels "other than MAX".
when there is only one other choice you either buy into it or not.
Does it really matter? 3 or 5 lumen's? certainly not to me.
The same is true with Henry's choices. There are a finite number of logical choices. Man is max. The in between settings again you either buy into it or not.
Yaesumofo




Byteorder said:


> yaesumofo, maybe I misunderstood you, or you me; but, my point about the light levels is that Henry seems to be getting hammered for some reason now about the light levels. I don't see near as much hammering going on about Surefire levels on the E1B (or maybe I haven't been reading enough). That's all. I hope Henry gets this puppy out ASAP so the choir will sing a better song.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 11, 2008)

My point was that just because a light is not programable, that does not make it "crippled", as was stated. Programable lights are the exception, not the norm. Therefore, to imply that Henry is doing us all a disservice by not making a light programable is ridiculous.


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## Tempest UK (Mar 11, 2008)

Cancelling my order as well. I'd rather keep the money for the upcoming SureFires and then decide whether or not I want the Ra when it has shipped and reviews are available.

Regards,
Tempest


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## JohnTz (Mar 11, 2008)

I wonder if everything is o.k. with Henry. Norrmally he is real good at giving updates and letting people know where things stand. It is uncharacteristic of him to go quiet.


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## AnimalHousePA (Mar 11, 2008)

Just cancelled my order for the Twisty...:thumbsdow


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## candlelight001 (Mar 11, 2008)

Cancelled mine and was told they're shipping Fri.... I'll pick one up later on...


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## FrogmanM (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm standing strong for my Ra torch! :devil: Get em out when ya can Henry!:thumbsup:

Mayo


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Mar 11, 2008)

skalomax said:


> Just didn't want to get charged unexpectedly.
> 
> According to Kevin, I was one of the first 10 orders too.


 
I've been thinking about doing the same. Figured if I were close to the head of the line, I'd get the light so, sent an e-mail to BS asking where I stood - guess it's not worth their time checking (not expensive enough??) as their reply said that they had no idea :thumbsdow


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## parnass (Mar 11, 2008)

I am still awaiting a downloadable version of the _HDS Twisty Flashlight User's Guide_.


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Mar 11, 2008)

JohnTz said:


> I wonder if everything is o.k. with Henry. Norrmally he is real good at giving updates and letting people know where things stand. It is uncharacteristic of him to go quiet.


 

Very true - I'm betting that he has been VERY busy lately working to get lights assembled and shipped. I would not surprise me at all if he checks every single light himself before it ships out their door.


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## HDS_Systems (Mar 13, 2008)

All,

As often happens, there have been issues getting the various parts into production and obtaining the correct results. A procedure that worked perfectly during the low volume test suddenly stopped working in the first high volume run. It took a couple of weeks to sort out what had gone wrong, fix the procedure and have the vendor(s) do the run a second time. It took us another week to sort out a problem with an incorrect part placement on the circuit board. A trivial problem to fix once the true cause was discovered. Prior to those problems we found a bizarre software bug that took us a week to track down and squash - where most software problems only take an hour or two.

But we have persevered and fixed the production problems one by one. There is a big difference between building one of something by hand and building hundreds of something in a production environment.

The good news is that the first batch is just completing the assembly process and the second batch is already in production. I expect the first batch to be finished tomorrow. They still need calibration, final testing and packaging. But I expect to have the first batch ready to ship by the end of the week. I believe you will find the Twisty was worth the wait.

Henry.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 13, 2008)

Sweet!


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## alanagnostic (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the update Henry. I have no doubt the Twisty will be worth the wait.


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## Chronos (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks for the update Henry! Now get back to work! :naughty::twothumbs


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## Oddjob (Mar 13, 2008)

Thanks Henry! Good things come to those who wait.:thumbsup:


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## Drywolf (Mar 13, 2008)

:goodjob:


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## FrogmanM (Mar 14, 2008)

Oddjob said:


> Thanks Henry! Good things come to those who wait.:thumbsup:


 
Indeed! Thx for the update Henry! Gotta keep the ravenous pack well fed!

Mayo


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## Edwood (Mar 14, 2008)

Any teaser pics, Henry? 

Which type of emitter is in the 100 Lumen model? Seoul? or Cree?

I'm eagerly awaiting beamshots. I really loved my U60 XRGT, but not so much it's size and how warm it got. Looking forward to the Twisty.


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## Bullzeyebill (Mar 14, 2008)

Henry told me at SHOT that it is a Seoul P4. He had a demo and it looked like a Seoul LED.

Bill


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## Dead_Nuts (Mar 14, 2008)

I have no idea where I stand in line or even how many were pre-ordered. I'm still in, however and have no intention of canceling this late in the game.


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## Dead_Nuts (Mar 14, 2008)

Battery Station's reply to my inquiry today:

_Twisties are in route to us now but not sure yet how many. They begin leaving our facility next week._
_Kevin_


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## thermal guy (Mar 14, 2008)

yea! :thumbsup:


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## thermal guy (Mar 14, 2008)

Date : 9 Nov 2007 - 22:00
Order ID : 1735313

Any one know where i stand in line?


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## driven (Mar 15, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Date : 9 Nov 2007 - 22:00
> Order ID : 1735313
> 
> Any one know where i stand in line?



You are in front of me- order 1755589 on Nov 18. If the numbers are sequential, that would be 20276 orders (for all items, not just Twisties) in 9 days. That seems high, so there might be a checksum digit or something in the order numbers.


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## turbodog (Mar 15, 2008)

driven said:


> You are in front of me- order 1755589 on Nov 18. If the numbers are sequential, that would be 20276 orders (for all items, not just Twisties) in 9 days. That seems high, so there might be a checksum digit or something in the order numbers.




Unlike some assume, batterystation sells to more than just CPF and other items other than solely HDS products.

This is a recurring theme here....... that manufacturers exist only to service us. With our constant whining and unrealistic expectations it's a wonder ANY mfg has a presence here at all.


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## :)> (Mar 15, 2008)

turbodog said:


> This is a recurring theme here....... that manufacturers exist only to service us. With our constant whining and unrealistic expectations it's a wonder ANY mfg has a presence here at all.


 
+1

Access to the manufacturers is one of the greatest thing about CPF. We unfortunately live in a time where many people are entirely too egocentric in their thinking... it's all about me baby:shakehead

They risk nothing, produce nothing, need everything and the moment that they are made the slightest bit uncomfortable or the moment that something does not go their way, they do the only thing that they can... they whine and complain loudly and often. 

It really is sad.


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## jeffb (Mar 15, 2008)

Goatee.....AMEN!

Because this is an active forum, the assumption is made that Manufacturer's are dependent and or "tuned in" to CPF wants and wishes. IMO a huge FANTASY. Henry mentioned in another thread the issues regarding "production" manufacturing.

It seems that many here have absolutely no idea or experience about manufacturing, quality control, repair etc...yet make very brash statements regarding same.

The internet allows anyone to be anybody or anything they choose (pretend) to be. 

Are we really that "anxious" about having something that there needs to be all the negative criticism? Sometime the "anticipation" and looking forward is more fun than the actual event 

Another "just my opinion" reply.

jeffb


----------



## Hodsta (Mar 15, 2008)

Cheers to Dog, Goat and Jeff for thier collective wisdom and exhibiting the sprit and respect that I think, Henry and this cool little light deserve.:thumbsup:


----------



## Lumenz (Mar 15, 2008)

I can agree with you guys on people's expectations being too high, but this particular sub-topic was in result of driven saying that he thought it unlikely that Battery Station had 20276 orders in 9 days, which would be over 2,000 orders per day. 

I agree with driven that this is unlikely (although not necessarily impossible) and his statement does not reflect his unrealistic expectations, but rather an inconsistency in the order numbers. I think turbodog read too much in driven's statement.


----------



## thermal guy (Mar 15, 2008)

I think your right lumenz driven was just stating that the numbers didn't add up.I think some just might have an issue with how cpf thinks about how manufacturing should wait on us hand and foot.We are a voice, but not the only voice


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## yaesumofo (Mar 15, 2008)

There is no doubt that the majority mindset here on the cpf is that of the consumer.
As a consumer they have little or no knowledge of the process behind the manufacturing of a relatively simple flashlight.

Lets face it not many of us know the manufacturing detailesabout about how the computer screen you are reading this on was made. Right?
Because we are members of the CP we tend to have a sophomore knowledge of Leds and how they work and come together into the form of a flashlight.
The reality is i in 50 maybe have a slight clue as to how it's done.

No matter how much whining crying screaming e-mails and quiet or loud complaints ...None of these things are going to speed the process of getting these lights into out hands.
Unfortunately the lack of understanding (And the simple fact that the how and whys of any delay are none of out business) we have as a group means that even if Henry were to come out here and describe in detail the cause for each and every delay most wouldn't understand what he is saying. It is a lot easier to say nothing or something like a part we were waiting for was delayed.

The net effect is the same . IMHO there is no need to burden the end user with the useless details of each and every production delay.
There are those of course that want every gory detail.
Imagine how much time Henry would have to spend typing instead of working on the issues just to tell us "WHY?".
Silly isn't it?
So close you can taste it right?
But so far away.

If the light is a success and production and QC are decent. There will be plenty of these to go around.
So just be patient.
Yaesumofo 




:)> said:


> +1
> 
> Access to the manufacturers is one of the greatest thing about CPF. We unfortunately live in a time where many people are entirely too egocentric in their thinking... it's all about me baby:shakehead
> 
> ...


----------



## driven (Mar 15, 2008)

Lumenz said:


> I can agree with you guys on people's expectations being too high, but this particular sub-topic was in result of driven saying that he thought it unlikely that Battery Station had 20276 orders in 9 days, which would be over 2,000 orders per day.
> 
> I agree with driven that this is unlikely (although not necessarily impossible) and his statement does not reflect his unrealistic expectations, but rather an inconsistency in the order numbers. I think turbodog read too much in driven's statement.



That's all I was trying to say- that's a lot of orders, and 2k orders a day would be a lot. Cheers to battery station if they are doing that well. Of course they get orders from other than CPF members, and so relative dates of an order placed for the Twisty would be more indicative of when each of ours would ship. Now I know that I am not first in line and will probably ship in the second wave.

Some people are impatient to get their lights and whine a bit, but I am not one of them. Henry can take as long as he needs to ship the lights, and that is fine with me. I need another light like I need an open head wound, but I can always use another light from Henry- I have three and they are all exquisite.


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## :)> (Mar 15, 2008)

driven said:


> I need another light like I need an open head wound


 
:welcome::nana:


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Mar 16, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Date : 9 Nov 2007 - 22:00
> Order ID : 1735313
> 
> Any one know where i stand in line?


 
I waited until Nov. 27 to click - it's going to be interesting to see how long the wait is.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 17, 2008)

Anyone know if these went out to BS last Friday, as stated? Or, has anyone had recent correspondence with BS? I just don't want to overload them with e-mails.


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## Dead_Nuts (Mar 18, 2008)

Just wait a couple of days. Some folks should be getting them soon if they did ship.


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## FrogmanM (Mar 18, 2008)

I ordered mine on the 8th of November(my pocket book has been destroyed) so I don't know my order #.

The twisted wait for the Twisty continues to leave me in tatters!:tinfoil:

Mayo


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## yaesumofo (Mar 18, 2008)

Amazing that nobody has anything to say about yet another apparent delay.
IMHO it is better to just sell the light when it is done. All of the buildup and silliness seems to leed to disappointment.
Yaesumofo


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Mar 19, 2008)

yaesumofo said:


> Amazing that nobody has anything to say about yet another apparent delay.
> IMHO it is better to just sell the light when it is done. All of the buildup and silliness seems to leed to disappointment.
> Yaesumofo


 
I've been thinking that the silence may be the calm before the Twisty storm


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## senna94 (Mar 19, 2008)

Ra Twisty PDF User's Guide is now available for download!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here........http://ralights.com/TwistyUsersGuide.pdf
:twothumbs


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## seery (Mar 19, 2008)

senna94 said:


> Ra Twisty PDF User's Guide is now available for download!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Here........http://ralights.com/TwistyUsersGuide.pdf
> :twothumbs


THANKS for the update/find. 

How's that saying go..."So close I can sniff it".


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## HDS_Systems (Mar 20, 2008)

Senna94,

That was quick. The manual was only posted minutes before. The web pages were also updated to note the manual is now available.

We have started shipping the new Ra Twisty. We expect to ship all of the existing orders within the next 4 weeks. 

Our testing has exceeded our expectations on runtimes. Even some of the worst LEDs have not had any problems meeting the new specification and the good LEDs are - well, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how long you can run at full power.

For those of you who complained about our earlier lights not making the full runtime at maximum power because of a thermal step-down, this no longer appears to be a problem. With the light sitting on a wood table and no additional cooling, the lights have been going the whole period at maximum power with no thermal step-downs.

Battery detection is now fully automatic under all conditions and the light will no longer allow you to damage the battery - even in an emergency. As it turns out, once you get to the critical shut-off voltage, there is so little time left on the battery that the difference in practical terms is not worth the risk of someone getting hurt.

The accessory battery tubes (18670 and 2xAA) are moving forward and should become available late next month.

Henry.


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## Oddjob (Mar 20, 2008)

WooHoo! Thanks Henry! :thumbsup:


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## FrogmanM (Mar 20, 2008)

There ya go people! Thanks Henry!:twothumbs

Looking forward to the additional tubes!

Mayo


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Mar 20, 2008)

Henry, thank you for the update - it's really good to know that pre-orders will be manufactured within the next month! Is it just "luck of the draw" for getting a longer running led?

I'm in for sure on the extra battery tubes.

BTW, I found that FlashlightLens has the correct size of windows in stock (ultra clear and not the borofloat) and they can be ordered with the diffusion film attached!


----------



## gottawearshades (Mar 20, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Our testing has exceeded our expectations on runtimes. Even some of the worst LEDs have not had any problems meeting the new specification and the good LEDs are - well, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how long you can run at full power.
> 
> 
> Henry.



First or all, this is great news, Henry. I can hardly wait.

Now, I have to ask what is probably a stupid question. I thought runtime is controlled by the driver circuitry, and the efficiency of the LED would just make it brighter. The runtime is a function of the current draw and the capacity of the cell. For a more efficient LED to run longer at the same brightness (aside, I reckon, from marginal differences in efficiency because of differences in heat?) would mean calibrating each light to the voltage needed to produce the target brightness. 

Am I wrong, or is this the only way that different copies could have noticeably different runtimes? That would make each light a custom job. Am I missing something here? I'm here to learn.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 20, 2008)

I am very excited to receive this news. However, I do have one question. The manual states that it is possible to damage the switching mechanism by continuing to tighten the battery compartment after "high" is achieved. This worries me. I'm a plumber, lefty loosey, righty tighty are pretty automatic for me. However, what if I hand the light off to my wife or nephew or whomever, and they can't figure out how to turn it off and go the wrong way? 

A light can be bombproof on the outside, but that doesn't do a lick of good if simple user error can disable it. What are the realistic chances of this occurring? Can the threads be machined or manipulated so that they bottom out before the switching mechanism is over-engaged?


----------



## FredericoFreire (Mar 20, 2008)

Thats a good question, Valpo Hawkeye. :thinking:

Generally, when somebody else uses any of my twist lights, the use to overtight when trying to turn on/off. They just are not used to play with flashlights as we CPF'ers are. :shrug:


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 20, 2008)

Valpo Hawkeye said:


> I am very excited to receive this news. However, I do have one question. The manual states that it is possible to damage the switching mechanism by continuing to tighten the battery compartment after "high" is achieved. This worries me. I'm a plumber, lefty loosey, righty tighty are pretty automatic for me. However, what if I hand the light off to my wife or nephew or whomever, and they can't figure out how to turn it off and go the wrong way?
> 
> A light can be bombproof on the outside, but that doesn't do a lick of good if simple user error can disable it. What are the realistic chances of this occurring? Can the threads be machined or manipulated so that they bottom out before the switching mechanism is over-engaged?



That's a valid concern for any twisty type light and for that reason, I never let anyone turn my twisty lights.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 20, 2008)

this_is_nascar said:


> That's a valid concern for any twisty type light and for that reason, I never let anyone turn my twisty lights.



Hhm, I'm pretty sure that I can't over-twist my Z52 or my P1D Q5 because in both cases the threads bottom out before too much tension can be placed on the switching mechanism.


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## HDS_Systems (Mar 21, 2008)

Theatre Booth Guy,

We guarantee the minimum runtimes. Only the worst possible LED will produce this minimum runtime. All other LEDs produce longer - sometimes, much longer - runtimes. So yes, how much longer the light runs past the minimum is the "luck of the draw".

gottawearshades,

LEDs out of the same bin can vary in efficiency by as much as 2:1. See the Articles section of our web site for detailed explanations of why this is so - specifically, read LED Flashlight White Paper.

That said, the only way to ensure two flashlight using LEDs from the same bin are the same brightness is to calibrate each flashlight to the same brightness level. For production purposes, you must first determine the worst LED efficiency you can tolerate for a specified lumen level. The calibration process then adjusts the power level downward from this level until each LED emits the same amount of light. Thus the runtimes vary. The worst acceptable LED efficiency produces the minimum specified runtime while all other LEDs produce longer runtimes.

In this respect, each flashlight is custom. However, since the calibration process is part of the production process, these flashlights can be considered production flashlights.

Valpo Hawkeye,

The switch mechanism is actually very robust and it will be difficult from someone to accidentally damage it. The warning is mostly there for the "ham fisted" owner who likes to over tighten everything. We are trying to convey to the owner that there is no benefit to continuing to tighten the mechanism past the point the light has switched to high. Doing so on a regular basis will simply wear the components.unnecessarily. There is a big difference between loosely snug and torqued.

Henry.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 21, 2008)

Thanks for the clarification, Henry. To your point, I plumbed with a guy who was notorious for over-tightening. He would actually split 1-1/2 galvanized fittings on a semi-regular basis. I always cringed when I had to service his jobs because I knew I may not be able to get certain fittings apart. :duck:


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## gottawearshades (Mar 21, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Theatre Booth Guy,
> 
> We guarantee the minimum runtimes. Only the worst possible LED will produce this minimum runtime. All other LEDs produce longer - sometimes, much longer - runtimes. So yes, how much longer the light runs past the minimum is the "luck of the draw".
> 
> ...



Wow, I had no idea. Thanks.


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## yaesumofo (Mar 24, 2008)

can the ra be easily operated with one hand?
Yaesumofo


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## JohnTz (Mar 24, 2008)

Anybody get one of these yet?


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## thermal guy (Mar 24, 2008)

Money hasn't come out of my account yet:sigh:


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## neoseikan (Mar 25, 2008)

My question is ,
Why it is black, not the lovely green like old HDS or Novatac EDC.


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## HDS_Systems (Mar 25, 2008)

Yaesumofo,

We do not advertise the Ra Twisty as easily operated by one hand. With a brand new O-ring and after sitting a day or two without exercise, two hands are probably required to get things going. However, if the O-ring is well lubricated and the light has been operated recently, it can be fairly easily operated with one hand.

We chose a slightly tighter fit to ensure a good water seal.

Neoseikan,

Black causes fewer production problems and fewer complaints. The last time I spent a day at the platers working on some other issues, I took some photos of a rack of parts just prior to entering the dye tank. The only difference between black parts and natural parts are several minutes in the dye tank. On a single rack consisting of over 150 parts you can easily see significant differences in color on parts that are only inches away from each other. Needless to say, customer's complain when the color match between parts is not real close.

Once we have finished our release schedule we will entertain natural as an option.

Henry.


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## FrogmanM (Mar 26, 2008)

Recieved an email from BatteryStation...Twisty shipped!

Mayo


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## paulr (Mar 26, 2008)

I am glad it is not green. I got hassled in airports several times about my old Arc LS and I think it was that olive military cast that did it. I stay away from that color in flashlights and other dangerous (smile) looking devices now.


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## RainerWahnsinn (Mar 26, 2008)

FrogmanM said:


> Recieved an email from BatteryStation...Twisty shipped!
> 
> Mayo



wish I could post the same

Anyone else received this wonderfull Mail? Batterystation did not change the Status on their Homepage.:shrug:

Rainer


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## yaesumofo (Mar 26, 2008)

The contrast between the BLACK body and the stainless steel head should be cool.
What alloy stainless was used for the head/bezel?
Thanks
Yaesumofo




HDS_Systems said:


> Yaesumofo,
> 
> We do not advertise the Ra Twisty as easily operated by one hand. With a brand new O-ring and after sitting a day or two without exercise, two hands are probably required to get things going. However, if the O-ring is well lubricated and the light has been operated recently, it can be fairly easily operated with one hand.
> 
> ...


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## turbodog (Mar 27, 2008)

FrogmanM said:


> Recieved an email from BatteryStation...Twisty shipped!
> 
> Mayo



How many have received the same email?


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## :)> (Mar 27, 2008)

I inquired about my order and I was informed that:

I did, in fact, place it like I remembered... I was worried because I could not find any confirmation emails and I started to doubt if I was still of a sound mind.
My order did not ship but would likely ship next week. All of the first round of lights has shipped from Battery Station (I don't know how many that is).
It is actually kind of good that I am in the 2nd or 3rd run of lights as the more efficient LED's shipped in those batches:devil::nana:

Of course I am just kidding about the efficiencies:welcome:


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## Ty_Bower (Mar 27, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Our testing has exceeded our expectations on runtimes. Even some of the worst LEDs have not had any problems meeting the new specification and the good LEDs are - well, I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how long you can run at full power.
> 
> For those of you who complained about our earlier lights not making the full runtime at maximum power because of a thermal step-down, this no longer appears to be a problem. With the light sitting on a wood table and no additional cooling, the lights have been going the whole period at maximum power with no thermal step-downs.



If they truly run as long and as cool as you suggest they do, then my only complaint will be that there is no option to run them harder. :devil:


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## FrogmanM (Mar 27, 2008)

Just checked with UPS, my light is in Kansas! Should be in CA round the 31

I'm really liking the writing on the bezel henry! I'm hoping that my SN has any combos of 1s or 8s in it

Mayo


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## sawlight (Mar 27, 2008)

There is a thread with pics and beam shots, but of course I can't find it now


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 27, 2008)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2413146#post2413146


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## sawlight (Mar 27, 2008)

Thank you!!!


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## yaesumofo (Mar 27, 2008)

Why are there no reviews so far? I have seen some end user images...
How about some user opinions, beam shots, runtime charts, you know the standard CPF stuff.
For as many people who have been waiting for so long I find it amazing that all of those new owners (they have been making their way to end users right?) don't want to show us the new RA in all of it's glory.
I am interested in how well the red emitter works on low.
Yaesumofo


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Mar 27, 2008)

From what I understand, the only version going out right now is the 100-lumen model... therefore no red low-output versions yet.


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## mikes1 (Mar 28, 2008)

Well I ordered the red version and it`s on it`s way to the UK :thumbsup:

Mike


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## Frank Maddix (Mar 28, 2008)

mikes1 said:


> Well I ordered the red version and it`s on it`s way to the UK :thumbsup:
> 
> Mike


Great! So as I'm 100 miles west of you mine should arrive about 2 hours later (allowing for traffic on the M4)...


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## mikes1 (Mar 28, 2008)

Frank Maddix said:


> Great! So as I'm 100 miles west of you mine should arrive about 2 hours later (allowing for traffic on the M4)...


 

Hey Frank time will tell


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## Daniel_sk (Mar 29, 2008)

Here is a new message from Henry posted on CPFMP. Interesting ....



HDS Systems said:


> .....
> *How do you know the current Twisty is not programmable? Perhaps a contest is in order. Say a free flashlight to the first person that figures out how to modify all of the settings and can describe the full procedure to me?*
> 
> You will notice from our revised warranty statement about the EDC Basic and EDC Ultimate (see post #1) that we will be offering a "clicky" for warranty service. Although these will not be a standard production model going forward, you can probably assume there will be an official announcement at some time in the future about a production version.
> ...


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## Dead_Nuts (Mar 29, 2008)

Seems like most folks who are getting their RAs ordered them in November. It may be awhile before backorders are filled. I didn't order mine until January. :mecry:


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## Kiessling (Mar 30, 2008)

Programmable?
I am out then. Good news. One less to buy.
bernie


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## HDS_Systems (Mar 31, 2008)

Bernie,

I bet that you will never accidentally happen across the customization method. And I bet that no one you hand the flashlight to will accidentally happen across the customization method either. We sell the Twisty as a non-customizable flashlight. As such, allowing the customer to accidentally enter a mode that differs from the very simple documentation is considered to be a problem.

We put a lot of effort into making sure that a child's play, a person at wits end, a board person, a fidgeting person or anyone else for that matter would not be able to accidentally leave the simple and well documented user interface. If anyone figures it out, I think you will see that accidental is very unlikely.

But in the end, you set the criteria for flashlights you like and don't like. The choice is yours.

Henry.


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## FrogmanM (Mar 31, 2008)

If the program mode involves X number of twists, my TR70 will be a one handed twistie in no time!

Awesome job Henry!!!:twothumbs

Mayo


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## Kiessling (Mar 31, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Bernie,
> 
> I bet that you will never accidentally happen across the customization method. And I bet that no one you hand the flashlight to will accidentally happen across the customization method either. We sell the Twisty as a non-customizable flashlight. As such, allowing the customer to accidentally enter a mode that differs from the very simple documentation is considered to be a problem.
> 
> ...



OK ... we'll see then 
I am open for everything ... 
bernie


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## thermal guy (Mar 31, 2008)

I don't have mine yet Henry and i love it already! So you going to sell me that beat up twisty:naughty:


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## HDS_Systems (Apr 1, 2008)

Thermal Guy,

I use my pummeled Ra Twisty on a regular basis to show people how sturdy it is. I even encourage people to add a ding or two. It takes a lot of work to beat these things up and I would prefer not to start over again. 

Henry.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Apr 3, 2008)

Anyone know if the second shipment has gone out yet?


----------



## tebore (Apr 3, 2008)

Can you at least get us a picture of the pummeled twisty?


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## thermal guy (Apr 3, 2008)

It's in this thread tebore http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=193452 Post 23


----------



## tebore (Apr 3, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> It's in this thread tebore http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=193452 Post 23



Gosh the information is all over the place, I can't keep up with ya young whipper snappers. 

P.S. I don't seen an abused light all I see is a light that's been through some rough use on that page.


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## thermal guy (Apr 3, 2008)

I think that beat up twisty looks great! But. Henry won't sell it to me:mecry:


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Apr 4, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> Thermal Guy,
> 
> I use my pummeled Ra Twisty on a regular basis to show people how sturdy it is. I even encourage people to add a ding or two. It takes a lot of work to beat these things up and I would prefer not to start over again.
> 
> Henry.


 
Been curious after seeing the pictures of your new pumled light - is it the ultra-rugged or ultra-efficient version?

Unrelated - still waiting on word as to when my pre-order will be sent. . . .


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## HDS_Systems (Apr 4, 2008)

Theatre Booth Guy,

It is the Ra-100-T - ultra-efficient. As I have said, LEDs in general are rugged when taken proper care of. Some just happen to be designed to higher ruggedness standards.

I see I need to update the photo on the Ra Twisty product page with the current production model. Perhaps this weekend.

Henry.


----------



## HDS_Systems (Apr 4, 2008)

Tebore,

We have updated our home page, the Ra Twisty product page and the Ra Twisty details page with the photo.

I think it is awesome that our new flashlights will take so much abuse and keep right on running. That is why we say our lights are "The light that gets you home". The light may be damaged and scared but it should at least continue to work long enough to get you home - under most conditions.

I guess it comes from spending a lot of time in places where the sun will never rise. If your light gives out, you die. So keeping the lights on, even if only dimly, has a high priority.

Henry.


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## karlthev (Apr 4, 2008)

Well Henry, I've been on the Dark Side regarding this light but, I'm moving fast back over to the Light Side with you as I read on....



Karl


----------



## Daniel_sk (Apr 4, 2008)

So how many CPF members already received their Ra lights? There isn't a single review on CPF yet :shakehead. 
My decision also depends on the progaming possibilities. For example - can the red low mode be reprogrammed to a low white? Can I make a two level twisty out of the three level version?...


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## yaesumofo (Apr 4, 2008)

I am on the fence about this light. The price is certainly right.
As a long time ARC 4(x2)/ HDS EDC (x4)/ Novatac(x1)/ owner I like the DNA of this light.

I like the 100 Lumen output. I also like the idea of a low level RED led.
So what is a guy to do. Not a single review to speak of. No beam shots.
I really would like to know if the trade off of 30 lumen for a red low is worth it.
The heavydutyness of the ra is not in question here the utility of a red is.

Opinions are all one can ask for here.
Yaesumofo


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## karlthev (Apr 4, 2008)

The red is great for preserving night vision and for stargazers or those seeking anonimity in the wee hours, it may just be the thing to get!! I have an Arc LS modded with a red-orange LED and a Flupic which does just the trick.


Karl


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## HDS_Systems (Apr 4, 2008)

Daniel_sk, Yaesumofo,

Take a look at the thread called "Ra Twisty" in this forum. The light has been torn apart and photographed with a preliminary review.

If you see the HDS-120 thread in the MarketPlace, you will see a challenge to figure out how the configuration setting works. I guess if no one figures it out in a couple of months I'll just publish the instructions. As with our other flashlight designs, you can set any level to any setting and red is just another level. The only difference between the Ra-70-Tr and Ra-70-Tw is the choice of red dim instead of a white dim as the factory default. The low setting on the Tw can be set to red dim and the low setting on the Tr can be set to white.

As you can set any level to any setting, you can set the same level to two settings for a 2 level Twisty or you can set the same level to all three settings for a single level Twisty. I am not sure why you would want to do such a thing, but it is possible.

Henry.


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## thermal guy (Apr 4, 2008)

What do you bet it's just a certain order that you must put the levels in like low-low-high-med-low? and your in.


----------



## thermal guy (Apr 4, 2008)

So will you be able to set the low red higher than the factory setting?


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## seery (Apr 4, 2008)

This has to be the most practical and hard core EDC light available anywhere.

Can't wait for the orders to be filled.


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## thermal guy (Apr 4, 2008)

When i get mine I'm going to use it to pummel my novatac:devil:


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## seery (Apr 4, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> When i get mine I'm going to use it to pummel my novatac:devil:



I haven't laughed so hard in days! As much as I adore my 120P's,
they wouldn't stand a chance against the twisty. :mecry:


----------



## thermal guy (Apr 4, 2008)

The 120's aren't bad lights it's just that i have had so many problem's with mine it get frustrating.


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## Edjusted (Apr 5, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> When i get mine I'm going to use it to pummel my novatac:devil:




Ha! Thanks Thermal guy, that made me laugh harder than any other CPF post I've read to date.

I can't wait to put my twisty (*cough* as soon as it gets a pocket clip *cough*) on the shelf next to my other lights at night, then wake up in the morning to see them all on the floor dead and bleeding with the twisty sitting all alone still on the shelf


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## discoverEDC (Apr 5, 2008)

Two months Henry, we'll hold you to it :laughing: The Twisty is already a solid piece of engineering, thanks for giving us the opportunity to customise it to our exact needs. When I get mine I want medium to be about 25 lumens. 





HDS_Systems said:


> Daniel_sk, Yaesumofo,
> 
> Take a look at the thread called "Ra Twisty" in this forum. The light has been torn apart and photographed with a preliminary review.
> 
> ...


----------



## Theatre Booth Guy (Apr 6, 2008)

HDS_Systems said:


> If you see the HDS-120 thread in the MarketPlace, you will see a challenge to figure out how the configuration setting works. I guess if no one figures it out in a couple of months I'll just publish the instructions. As with our other flashlight designs, you can set any level to any setting and red is just another level. The only difference between the Ra-70-Tr and Ra-70-Tw is the choice of red dim instead of a white dim as the factory default. The low setting on the Tw can be set to red dim and the low setting on the Tr can be set to white.
> 
> Henry.


 
The option of a white or red low is what I was dreaming of when I placed my pre-order for the Ra-70-Tw!!

If BS (Battery Station) would give some clue as to when they may ship the light, I'd be a really happy camper. Hopefully, as time goes on, either they get their customer service together or, there are more options for a place to purchase the Ra lights.

Edit: got a reply from Battery Station today (4-7-08) - they have no warning as to what or when they will recieve. It took less than one day for them to reply with a well thought-out answer - I take back my above rant.


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## gadgetnerd (Apr 7, 2008)

The longer I wait, the more interesting Ra news comes out, and the more difficult the wait becomes! 

So now I find my 70TR will actually be programmable and selectable between Red/white dim. If I wait a few more months I'll probably find out that max is 400lm and it doesn't even require a battery to run


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## thermal guy (Apr 10, 2008)

OK one just sold on b/s/t and i haven't even got mine yet! Anyone else get theirs yet.


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## turbodog (Apr 10, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> OK one just sold on b/s/t and i haven't even got mine yet! Anyone else get theirs yet.



Yeah. I've got some very serious questions about how many are actually being made and shipped.

I've been Henry's staunchest supporter through the YEARS. I've stuck up for him when everyone was unsatisfied, through thick and thin. I'm hearing 2 different stories from Henry and Batterystation. It simply appears that one of them is untrue, especially when other info is taken into account.

I'm so sick of the missed promises that I called today and cancelled my order.

At this point I would refuse a free light. I've got a serious mind to reuse the 
money I planned to spend and order another novatac. :thumbsdow


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## thermal guy (Apr 10, 2008)

Well i wouldn't go that far, I'm just upset that my order that was placed on Nov 9th is not here yet. But i think i herd that only the 100LM models were shipping.


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## driven (Apr 11, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Well i wouldn't go that far, I'm just upset that my order that was placed on Nov 9th is not here yet. But i think i herd that only the 100LM models were shipping.



I ordered a 100 model (white) on Nov 18 and it just arrived. It's a true work of art. Nice beam with lots of spill. My serial number is 124. The low level is really low. I won't get to play with it more until the weekend.


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## turbodog (Apr 11, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Well i wouldn't go that far, I'm just upset that my order that was placed on Nov 9th is not here yet. But i think i herd that only the 100LM models were shipping.



Not so from what I've read. There are some reviews of the red ones out there.


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## HDS_Systems (Apr 11, 2008)

We are shipping all three models. There are just a lot of back orders to make our way through.

Henry.


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## gadgetnerd (Apr 11, 2008)

driven said:


> I ordered a 100 model (white) on Nov 18 and it just arrived.



Well that p***es me right off, since I ordered my 70TR on Nov 10 and BS haven't even shipped mine yet. Not going to cancel my order, but I'd really like to think there was some kind of consistency to the way the orders were being dealt with.

Ah well, at least I have my new NDI and Zebralight to play with in the mean time.


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Apr 11, 2008)

turbodog said:


> Yeah. I've got some very serious questions about how many are actually being made and shipped.
> 
> I've been Henry's staunchest supporter through the YEARS. I've stuck up for him when everyone was unsatisfied, through thick and thin.
> 
> ...


 
Earlier this week, I was very tempted to do the same. Luckily, Battery Station quick and fully answered my e-mail - so, I'll be waiting still. . . . November 29, 2007 still seems like a long time ago


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## seery (Apr 11, 2008)

driven said:


> Nice beam with lots of spill. My serial number is 124.


Would you say the beam is like that of the NovaTac 120P? If not how is it different?

Thanks.


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## txmatt (Apr 11, 2008)

When I called a few days ago, BatteryStation said they were receiving and shipping approximately 50/week and they had a few weeks worth of backorders.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 11, 2008)

txmatt said:


> When I called a few days ago, BatteryStation said they were receiving and shipping approximately 50/week and they had a few weeks worth of backorders.



How many ordered the RA?

Bill


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## william lafferty (Apr 11, 2008)

Here are some pictures of the RA Twisty.

bill


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## Dutch (Apr 11, 2008)

Great pics Bill!!

Thanks!
Dutch


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## senna94 (Apr 11, 2008)

Out of all my lights the only ones that make me feel as if i am holding something truly special are my HDS lights. From the looks of it the Ra should be no different.


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## toby_pra (Apr 11, 2008)

Thanks many William!


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## candlelight001 (Apr 11, 2008)

Anyone who's got one, please tell us about the beam from the 100 and the 70 lumen varieties... If you can post beamshots, could you compare to novatac?


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## Dead_Nuts (Apr 11, 2008)

Mine was ordered in January, so I have some time to wait yet. The pictures look great and I guess I'm just willing to wait things out. 

You can't have it all, folks. You want the best quality, but you want it now! There are times when I wait for others to be the early adopters and read all the reviews I can before buying. But this pre-purchase was based on Henry's previous work and the expectation that he would work out all the bugs before shipping. IOW, I was willing to wait for the quality, but wanted one ASAP -- knowing that would be awhile.

Many manufacturers are happy with allowing the first buyers to be their beta testers. I am glad that Henry is not one of those.


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## senna94 (Apr 12, 2008)

Well stated Dead_Nuts. In my opinion with anything you have three criteria to choose from.

1. Good

2. Cheap

3. Fast

You can only have two of the three and live without the other.

Personally, I choose good and cheap and can live with the wait.
:naughty:


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## driven (Apr 12, 2008)

seery said:


> Would you say the beam is like that of the NovaTac 120P? If not how is it different?
> 
> Thanks.


Well, it is daylight right now and so it's hard to really tell. I would say that the center hot spot is a little larger, and seems a little diffused right at the center. Overall size of the beam and the tint seems similar. I'll try to take some beam shots this weekend and compare them


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## driven (Apr 12, 2008)

Here is a picture of the Twisty and a Novatac.


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## seery (Apr 12, 2008)

driven said:


> Well, it is daylight right now and so it's hard to really tell. I would say that the center hot spot is a little larger, and seems a little diffused right at the center. Overall size of the beam and the tint seems similar. I'll try to take some beam shots this weekend and compare them


driven - Thanks for the beam description and pics.

Will eagerly await some beam shot comparisons between the
NovaTac and your new Twisty. :thumbsup:


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## Derek Dean (Apr 12, 2008)

I'll admit, I was a bit put off initially by how this light looked, even if I was intrigued by the tack Henry chose by pursuing a super rugged, no frills, get you home kind of design...... but Bill.... your photos make that light look down right sexy (maybe I've been spending to much time here).

Now, the more I read about this light as it slowly comes to market, the more interested I've become. 

I think it's unfortunate that there have been so many delays with the release, but it does seem that for those who were willing to wait that the result will be an excellent, versatile, rugged light that should last a lifetime.

BTW yaesumofo, I'd think that anybody in your line of work would jump at the model which includes the red LED...... since 70 honest lumens seems to be plenty for 99% of what a pocket light should be expected to be used for...... and especially since you already have other lights that would fulfill your requirement for a brighter, or lower white beam. Just my 2 cents.


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## yaesumofo (Apr 13, 2008)

Battery station told me that they were receiving 50 a week and that the orders for the light were growing at about the same rate.
They told me that there is about a month between order and shipment at this time.
regardless of which light is ordered.
That is what they told me anyway.
What is Henry telling you?
Yaesumofo

\


turbodog said:


> Yeah. I've got some very serious questions about how many are actually being made and shipped.
> 
> I've been Henry's staunchest supporter through the YEARS. I've stuck up for him when everyone was unsatisfied, through thick and thin. I'm hearing 2 different stories from Henry and Batterystation. It simply appears that one of them is untrue, especially when other info is taken into account.
> 
> ...


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## Olaf_S (Apr 13, 2008)

My english is not so good. Will try some translations.

Pictures, you can see here: http://www.messerforum.net/showthread.php?p=467998#post467998
post #36 and 37

When you see both lights in one picture, the 70 TR is on the left site.

When you see one light for each picture, the 100 TW is the first one of two pictures, with same camera-attitude and same stage of the lights.

Post #37 in my german thread, second and third picture is 20 cm (0,65 feet or 7,87 inch) on white wall.


I will take more pictures soon (with HDS 60 GT and Nautilus) and some pictures outside.

The twisty is no light for one hand (at the moment - new). It`s not practicable. You need both hands to change the stage of the light.

Greetings
Olaf


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## tebore (Apr 13, 2008)

Looks to be a big ol donut for the red beam. I guess a diffuser would fix that but it's kinda unfortunate.


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## RainerWahnsinn (Apr 13, 2008)

_May be that is construction dependant:

Henry said:

"The HDS-70-Tr does have two LED dies - one to generate white and one to generate red."_​


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## tebore (Apr 13, 2008)

RainerWahnsinn said:


> _May be that is construction dependant:
> 
> Henry said:
> 
> "The HDS-70-Tr does have two LED dies - one to generate white and one to generate red."_​



I would have figured it would have been accounted for in the design process.


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## Theatre Booth Guy (Apr 13, 2008)

Olaf,

Great pictures! The pictures showing the led through the front of the lens have been long awaited.
Thank You


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## :)> (Apr 13, 2008)

I am still dying waiting for the delivery of my lights from Battery Station:scowl:

Someone do me a favor and tell me what kind of LED that the 70 uses and what make it more durable than the Seoul.

I am going nuts waiting.


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## Daniel_sk (Apr 13, 2008)

:)> said:


> Someone do me a favor and tell me what kind of LED that the 70 uses and what make it more durable than the Seoul.


 
I am pretty sure it's a Osram Dragon LED. I don't know any other details, but it would be interesting to know what makes it more durable.


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## RainerWahnsinn (Apr 13, 2008)

This could be an early note to the type of LED.


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 13, 2008)

It is a P4 Seoul. This was disclosed in the market place thread. When I visited Henry's booth at SHOT (actually he shared a booth), he told me it was to be a Seoul P4, mostly because of the reflector he is using. 

Bill


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 13, 2008)

It is a P4 Seoul for both 70 and 100 lumen model. This was disclosed in the market place thread. When I visited Henry's booth at SHOT (actually he shared a booth), he told me it was to be a Seoul P4, mostly because of the reflector he is using. He has always rated his lower lumen lights as more durable. 

Bill


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## Daniel_sk (Apr 13, 2008)

Bullzeyebill said:


> It is a P4 Seoul for both 70 and 100 lumen model. This was disclosed in the market place thread. When I visited Henry's booth at SHOT (actually he shared a booth), he told me it was to be a Seoul P4, mostly because of the reflector he is using. He has always rated his lower lumen lights as more durable.
> 
> Bill


It can't be a Seoul P4. Henry mentions the Osram Dragon on his website in the Articles page.
Take a look at the LED, it's a dual LED (white + red).
(picture taken by Olaf S)






TR70 in the middle 
(picture taken by Olaf S)


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## Steve L (Apr 13, 2008)

+ under beam profile:
100 - wide beam(SSC P4)
70 - narrow beam(Dragon ?)


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 13, 2008)

I stand corrected. My conversation with Henry must have only about the non red models, and I never asked him about the red Led model. Confusing.

Bill


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## thermal guy (Apr 13, 2008)

Any one know what happened to the pic of the Twisty and a Novatac?


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## FrogmanM (Apr 13, 2008)

Thank you for the pics Olaf_S!!! I think some people might be put off by the "donut ring" that the low red mode produces. I find this unfortunate because its such a USEFULL feature! When you need to perserve your night vision, a low red ring seems to work better for me, rather than a low white that is concentrated. I'm still trying to work out the hidden program mode, no luck so far!

+1 for HDS Twistys!

Mayo


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## Dead_Nuts (Apr 17, 2008)

I finally got anxious enough to email BatteryStation about my Ra order. This was the response of 10 minutes ago.



> We are shipping about 30 of them tomorrow. Assorted models. Should see another 50 next week. We should have all backorders done in a few weeks.
> Kevin


 
BTW, I didn't get my order in until 1/17/08, so there will be alot of orders filled before I get mine.


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## discoverEDC (Apr 17, 2008)

I didn't place my order until 3/29/08, middle of May for me perhaps 

Anybody take lux readings on the 100TW?


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## gadgetnerd (Apr 18, 2008)

discoverEDC said:


> I didn't place my order until 3/29/08, middle of May for me perhaps



Yep, May 2009...


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Apr 18, 2008)

I just received my ship notification! :twothumbs My order date was 12-11-07.


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## thermal guy (Apr 18, 2008)

Man mine was placed 11/9 nothing yet. I have the 70 tr so maybe just the 100's are shipping.


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## Not So Bright (Apr 18, 2008)

I ordered a 100-TW on 12-13-2007. I did not get a ship notice from Batterystation and my CC has not been charged.
I guess they are not shipping in a first-come, first-served order.


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## Valpo Hawkeye (Apr 18, 2008)

Oops, I just re-checked my messages. I ordered on 12-11-07 and sent the money on 12-12-07 (I prepaid).


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## gadgetnerd (Apr 18, 2008)

thermal guy said:


> Man mine was placed 11/9 nothing yet. I have the 70 tr so maybe just the 100's are shipping.



We're in exactly the same boat thermal.


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## antiplex (May 2, 2008)

i wonder why this thread has gone so silent; did i miss anything?

any news about the 2xAA tube? i kinda forgot: will the 2xAA tube be sold as an add-on or will one be able to order a twisty without a cr-tube but with the 2xAA tube? 

oh and what about the clip?

cheers, anti


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## DM51 (May 2, 2008)

antiplex said:


> i wonder why this thread has gone so silent; did i miss anything?


It has gone silent largely because it has been superseded by the Ra Twisty thread. I think this would be a sensible time to close this thread, and we can continue there.


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