# Why buy a Surefire headlamp when you can get a Dorcy Pro Series 200 Lumen Headlamp?



## emp13 (Jun 13, 2015)

Why buy a Surefire headlamp when you can get a Dorcy Pro Series 200 Lumen Headlamp for $40?

http://www.dorcy.com/p-665-41-2612-pro-series-200-lumen-led-headlight.aspx


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## michiganmade (Jun 16, 2015)

Seems like they are in a totally different level of quality.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 16, 2015)

Do I get another option or is it just SF or this? :shrug:


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## insanefred (Jun 17, 2015)

michiganmade said:


> Seems like they are in a totally different level of quality.



But, the packaging on the Dorcy says "What the Pros use".


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## abbotsmike (Jun 17, 2015)

I think this might not be the site for you....

There's a torch for every budget.


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## thedoc007 (Jun 17, 2015)

Since when does IPX4 speak to design quality and toughness? Hopefully it is under-rated, but I'd be reluctant to use it even in rain, with a rating that low. Wash it in the sink and you would be exceeding the rated water resistance.


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## cland72 (Jun 17, 2015)

Because plastic instead of aluminum
Because three modes instead of ramping UI
Because Dorcy


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## Berneck1 (Jun 17, 2015)

I have a couple of Dorcy lights. Their sole purpose is to hang in the closets for an emergency AND as give away lights if someone needs one. Being in NYC I have only been in two power outages. People have a false sense of security here because of that, so a lot of people don't have a flashlight. Amazes me. 

Dorcy has their place for anyone, but I would not use them as my primary "reliable" light. 


Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums


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## P_A_S_1 (Jun 17, 2015)

Berneck1 said:


> ...... so a lot of people don't have a flashlight. Amazes me.
> ....
> Sent from my iPhone using Candlepowerforums



During Sandy and the weeks after I was surprised that some of my co workers didn't have flashlights at home and were taking their duty lights home because they had no power. Growing up almost every room in the house had a flashlight in case of an emergency. To see guys that worked in the emergency response field not have flashlights at home was odd to me.


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## TEEJ (Jun 17, 2015)

P_A_S_1 said:


> During Sandy and the weeks after I was surprised that some of my co workers didn't have flashlights at home and we're taking their duty lights home because they had no power. Growing up almost every room in the house had a flashlight in case of an emergency. To see guys that worked in the emergency response field not have flashlights at home was odd to me.



The saying is: "The Cobblers Sons Have no Shoes"


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## P_A_S_1 (Jun 17, 2015)

Yep, lol.


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## RyeBread (Jun 18, 2015)

cland72 said:


> Because plastic instead of aluminum
> Because three modes instead of ramping UI
> Because Dorcy


If only there were a 'like' button on CPF... [emoji23] 

At $40, why not just throw in an extra $10-20 or so to get the aluminum and IPX8 and so on?


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## insanefred (Jun 18, 2015)

RyeBread said:


> *If only there were a 'like' button on CPF... *[emoji23]
> 
> At $40, why not just throw in an extra $10-20 or so to get the aluminum and IPX8 and so on?



Because this isn't FB, thank goodness.


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## D6859 (Jun 18, 2015)

I think I've seen a post like this during the last year. I'm afraid it's just an advertisement or that this thread was started as a paid endorsement.


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## Berneck1 (Jun 18, 2015)

D6859 said:


> I think I've seen a post like this during the last year. I'm afraid it's just an advertisement or that this thread was started as a paid endorsement.



I love when someone thinks a person liking a cheaper light is somehow trolling. 


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## D6859 (Jun 18, 2015)

Berneck1 said:


> I love when someone thinks a person liking a cheaper light is somehow trolling.



It's not just that. It's about the details.


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## StorminMatt (Jun 19, 2015)

RyeBread said:


> At $40, why not just throw in an extra $10-20 or so to get the aluminum and IPX8 and so on?



Good point. Although $40 may seem cheap, it's actually ALOT for a cheap, plastic headlamp. For about $25 more, you can have a Zebralight H52 or Armytek Tiara A1.

To make matters worse, I have REAL doubts that this headlamp can live up to its claims. Although I can't say for sure, it looks like it has a 5mm LED. You will NEVER get 200 lumens from a 5mm LED. The fact that it doesn't list a specific emitter (which most any manufacturer is proud to do) doesn't look good in this regard. Also, a runtime of 8hr at 200 lumens on 2xAA? Not happening.


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## Amelia (Jun 19, 2015)

emp13 said:


> Why buy a Surefire headlamp when you can get a Dorcy Pro Series 200 Lumen Headlamp for $40?



Uhhh... is this a trick question?


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## bdogps (Jun 19, 2015)

I am just surprised that no one has mentioned Pretlz yet.


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## uk_caver (Jun 19, 2015)

StorminMatt said:


> To make matters worse, I have REAL doubts that this headlamp can live up to its claims. Although I can't say for sure, it looks like it has a 5mm LED. You will NEVER get 200 lumens from a 5mm LED.


There's an optic, which makes it hard to tell, but it seems unlikely someone would claim 200lm from a 1x5mm light.
At least, outside certain online marketplaces.
And a 1x5mm light that had a 8hour runtime on 2xAA would have either a woefully inefficient driver or would burn the LED out in no time



StorminMatt said:


> The fact that it doesn't list a specific emitter (which most any manufacturer is proud to do) doesn't look good in this regard. Also, a runtime of 8hr at 200 lumens on 2xAA? Not happening.


You're dead right that regulated 200lm for 8 hrs on 2xAA is bollocks, since it would require about 10Wh from 2xAA, which isn't going to happen, but even the 'ANSI standards' were seemingly designed by manufacturers expressly to allow unregulated lights to make seriously misleading claims.

Like any other light, if it produces 200lm after a few minutes it can then drop horrendously and still meet the ANSI standards, let alone even worse ones.


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## StorminMatt (Jun 19, 2015)

Athough the OP seems to think that the price of this light is good, I see it as a HORRIBLE value. Let's face it. This is NOT a $40 light. It's maybe a $15-$20 light. If you are willing to spend around $40 for a headlamp, go to Illumination Supply, use the 15% 'illumination' discount, and get a Zebralight H52 for just $14 more. You just CAN'T compare the two, as they are not even in the same league. This light is for people who don't know that there is anything better out there - or anything cheaper, if they nust want something cheap.


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## ahtoxa11 (Jun 19, 2015)

Heck, you can get a decent Petzl or a Princeton Tec for 40 bucks. And yeah, spend like 25 more and get a Zebra. No way I would recommend that Dorcy.


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## emp13 (Jun 20, 2015)

What is the best $40 headlamp?


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## Amelia (Jun 20, 2015)

emp13 said:


> What is the best $40 headlamp?



The $54 one that StorminMatt recommended. 
If you're in for $40, the extra $14 is a no-brainer to get a light of the quality of the H52 or H52w.


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## Woods Walker (Jun 20, 2015)

emp13 said:


> What is the best $40 headlamp?



There is no such thing IMHO as everyone's needs are different. For under 40 bucks a Fenix HL30 is real nice. Hiked with it last night on high from 10 pm to 1:30 am. One of the best overall headlamp beams I have seen. The primary downside is the door which can be a bit of a PITA.


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## degarb (Jun 28, 2015)

StorminMatt said:


> Athough the OP seems to think that the price of this light is good, I see it as a HORRIBLE value. Let's face it. This is NOT a $40 light. It's maybe a $15-$20 light. If you are willing to spend around $40 for a headlamp, go to Illumination Supply, use the 15% 'illumination' discount, and get a Zebralight H52 for just $14 more. You just CAN'T compare the two, as they are not even in the same league. This light is for people who don't know that there is anything better out there - or anything cheaper, if they nust want something cheap.



I couldn't agree more. I nust had to post. 

At $15, naybe okay, as there is virture in scattering cheap lights around, strategically. Also, other people steal your lights. Then, the whole ipx thing is needed rarely. It is simple to mod any light to make it drizzle proof. Also, if you can afford a good light, better first invest in a hooded rain coat. Even then, break out a dimmer, water proof headlamp, in those rare cases. 

But, I have zero love for fraudulent companies that over rate runtime. Runtime is ma draw at start/mah, which is nearly always equal to useful output time, or time to half output. 

There are two ways to waste money on lights: buying cheap useless lights that lack some needed specification; and, not doing homework, and buying some ridiculous shelf queen at a good multiple of the sum price of the parts. (My estimated point of overprice is over the $150 mark--as I did pay a bit north of $100 for the Fenix bt20 and the tk35- justified by build, driver, 2x18650 format, warranty ,and unique optics.) 

I do think cpf is not a show room for over priced, shelf queens. Rather, a true forum where the reader has access to all useful user input of info and resources. So, if you want good budget lights, better than walmart or sears lights, but often lacking in some quality, there are many online alertnatives: dx, fastech, cndirect, wallbuys, cnqualitygoods. Offtop of head. … . I post, mainly, because you would think sears, wallmart, home depot would better police their vendor runtime claims, as it only takes one test with a light meter and a watch, or a multimeter. Scum of the earth exaggerate runtime, lux and lumens. Not to mention fail to heatsink their leds! Always, looks forthe heatsink before buying!!!!!!!! This includes cell phones and televisions. I am just realizing my led cellphone leds are half as bright as a year ago. Omg!

Looks like the Dorcy light has no heat sink. So, better off donating the $40 to charity, since you will only get a few dozen hours before ruining the led, unless you keep it at the low setting, save for burst high. The light is fraudulent in many ways. I say this as a sucker for cheap lights, I am no snob. Heatsink, runtime lies, over price. Led bin spec is pretty important when buying a lamp, makes the lies harder. Thus, vendors argue against this.

In a free market, dorcy should be bumped off the shelf in favor of fenix. However, dorcy must be giving free vacations to the buyer's, same as drug/medical device salesman and your doctor or insurance provider, and congressman .


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## uk_caver (Jun 29, 2015)

degarb said:


> But, I have zero love for fraudulent companies that over rate runtime. Runtime is ma draw at start/mah, which is nearly always equal to useful output time, or time to half output.



In an ideal (honest?) world, alongside any runtime claims would be mention of whether the light was regulated or unregulated.

Especially for headlamps, for some uses there's something to be said for unregulated lights, or for regulated lights with either an active warning or drop to lower level as cells approach exhaustion, or where regulation drops out some time before exhaustion to give a graceful long tail, but it would be nice to have information about such behaviour accompanying runtime claims.


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## twolane (Jun 30, 2015)

Back on topic- a pretty fair option for a $40 light (when on sale) is a rechargeable USB headlamp from Streamlight.

_*link removed_


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## RedLED (Jun 30, 2015)

insanefred said:


> But, the packaging on the Dorcy says "What the Pros use".


What "Pros?" There are many people who are Pros at the strangest things at night! I can't answer that because the Pros arrest the other pros around here!


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## P_A_S_1 (Jun 30, 2015)

emp13 said:


> What is the best $40 headlamp?





emp13 said:


> Why buy a Surefire headlamp when you can get a Dorcy Pro Series 200 Lumen Headlamp for $40?



OP, this might be of interest to you.

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Best-Headlamp/Ratings


They updated the review recently. The SF Minimus was previously on but since removed however you can search their archive section as it might bring up the review they did on it. Also some lights that previously were not reviewed, like Zebralight, now are. Hope it helps.


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## scs (Jun 30, 2015)

P_A_S_1 said:


> OP, this might be of interest to you.
> 
> http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Best-Headlamp/Ratings
> 
> ...



Hmmm. It says the ZL review sample had the WORST battery life. Could have been a bad sample, or could have been that regulation, output, battery type were not all taken into consideration?


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## insanefred (Jul 1, 2015)

scs said:


> Hmmm. It says the ZL review sample had the WORST battery life. Could have been a bad sample, or could have been that regulation, output, battery type were not all taken into consideration?



Also said it wasn't nearly as bright as other lights. I am scratching my head, trying to figure out what their criteria of _"brightness"_.


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## P_A_S_1 (Jul 1, 2015)

insanefred said:


> Also said it wasn't nearly as bright as other lights. I am scratching my head, trying to figure out what their criteria of _"brightness"_.



On the home page for the headlamp reviews there is an 'overview' page where they state how they test the lights and what criteria they use. It states for brightness they brought and used a light meter.


This may help too...
http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Best-Headlamp/How-We-Test


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## scs (Jul 1, 2015)

I see... they basically just turned the lights on their highest mode and then let them run. Even the ZL 602 got a low score for battery life. They completely ignore the other lower modes on the ZLs. I say the review is misleading.


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## scs (Jul 1, 2015)

Hahaha, reviewer also commented that 18650s are hard to find. OK definitely not taking him or her seriously.


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## f22shift (Jul 2, 2015)

originally, i thought the OP was being sarcastic to be funny but maybe not..

anywho, the ratings of outdoor gear lab i can sort of understand. they are really considering price and don't think plastic is a problem 
"If you are subjecting your head and headlamp to forces that damage a plastic light like the Tikkina, you have perhaps bigger concerns."

umm, plastic sucks. it's not waterproof, not even rain proof. what if you end up in a very humid cave. i know we flashaholics like to think worst case scenario but it's true. i remember just recently doing an underground river hike tour. it was fun and surely any headlamp would do. wrong, the guide didn't know the last part required climbing a rope up a waterfall side in darkness. so you need both hands as water is drenching your whole body including the headlamp. actually it was so much fun as there was no safety aids(it was china haha). no problem with my spark headlamp and mostly like any premium headlamp would have faired well. 
also plastic is brittle when cold. try fumbling multiple cells while trying to open a plastic case and hoping you don't drop cells or crack the case. the plastic hinge to rotate the light will fail eventually. where will you be when it fails.

i still think they are trying to be honest in their review where they view a jack of all trades is better than a master of one. the short runtime is them trying to use the h602 as it is not designed. any purpose built flood light is made to be accompanied by a hand held thrower. i don't know why they want their headlamp to do everything mediocrely. i never used a headlamp to spot a trail marker. in fact, when you go hiking in a group there is usually only a few feet between you and the next guy. only the point guy has a big gap in front of him. but still why would you make the beam into such a focus. a few seconds on a small handheld thrower is better. there are less parts on the headlamp to fail due to moving and there is less entry points for water. 

the only suspicious thing is that they kept off the "claimed low mode runtime". hmmm suspicious as this is one of zebras strengths.

i still think there is some good information in there. an educated consumer could read between the lines and ignore the ratings numbers. unfortunately a general consumer will just pick the editors pick and look no further into the details of why haha.

edit: their top choice is only 30 bucks on amazon not 60 so they must be so happy. actually i like focusable lights as they are fun to play with. just you don't want to use when you need reliability.
also, they complain about the no lock out switch but i'm pretty sure zebras has the unscrew tailcap for lockout. right?

also i want to add that they could just use the highest for a short time to see the trail marker and not leave on the highest. it's the same concept as the coast headlamp they are using. they would focus the beam when looking for the trail marker and then switch back to flood. you wouldn't leave the headlamp on focus and proceed to trip on every rock and stepping on snakes' necks.

i think the price scares them the most.

actually, i want to go on some side rant. i don't like to buy any mainstream light(fenix, petzl, foursevens, etc) that can be bought in brick & mortar stores. I've talked to a flashlight manufacturer before on their dealings with outdoor companies like rei etc. these stores affect the flashlight designs as they demand this or that because that's what sells to the general consumer. they will choose whether or not to carry your brand. didn't anyone notice how headlamps have oranges or yellows or something else. people purchase on price and oh that looks pretty. i don't want a light that has been compromised by a store so they can sell more.


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## P_A_S_1 (Jul 2, 2015)

f22shift said:


> .... i remember just recently doing an underground river hike tour. it was fun and surely any headlamp would do. wrong, *the guide didn't know the last part required climbing a rope up a waterfall side in darkness*. .....



That's some guide :shakehead.


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## uk_caver (Jul 2, 2015)

f22shift said:


> anywho, the ratings of outdoor gear lab i can sort of understand. they are really considering price and don't think plastic is a problem
> "If you are subjecting your head and headlamp to forces that damage a plastic light like the Tikkina, you have perhaps bigger concerns."
> 
> umm, plastic sucks. it's not waterproof, not even rain proof. what if you end up in a very humid cave. i know we flashaholics like to think worst case scenario but it's true.



Plastic isn't great at heat conduction, but isn't inherently bad in other respects, much comes down to what a light is designed to do, and the price point it is aimed at

Very many cavers use plastic Petzl Duos, and they are typically waterproof even in long term use. Very rarely someone cracks a [replaceable] lens, but apart from such cases, I'm not sure I've ever seen one with signs of damp in the headset. Battery boxes also rarely leak - to the extent some battery boxes get corrosion issues, much of that seems to be down to people putting damp cells in when changing cells underground.

Mining lamp headsets were/are made of plastic. The one I use as part of my main underground light is extremely robust - if _it_ got damaged while on my helmet, I_ would_ have bigger concerns.




f22shift said:


> i still think they are trying to be honest in their review where they view a jack of all trades is better than a master of one. the short runtime is them trying to use the h602 as it is not designed. any purpose built flood light is made to be accompanied by a hand held thrower. i don't know why they want their headlamp to do everything mediocrely. i never used a headlamp to spot a trail marker. in fact, when you go hiking in a group there is usually only a few feet between you and the next guy. only the point guy has a big gap in front of him. but still why would you make the beam into such a focus. a few seconds on a small handheld thrower is better. there are less parts on the headlamp to fail due to moving and there is less entry points for water.



If they are talking about *a* headlight, maybe they didn't see suggesting one which required additional lighting as a great idea for most of their target audience.
Pure flood is OK for a work-light, but I don't see it as the optimal beamshape for walking even without looking for distant landmarks - my homebuild twin-beam lights have a flood which is centre-weighted (tiny conical reflector redirecting all the useless 'sideways' light broadly forwards), and even for walking on known paths, it's still nice to augment with a little touch of spot added to the mix.
A 'naked' flood LED seems a pretty inefficient way of lighting things up when a centre-weighted flood can still feel floody yet be ~3x brighter in the beam centre for the same power input.
Personally, I'm not picky about a flood being perfectly smooth, since I spend little time looking at flat walls and reality tends to smooth beams out, and I also find that minor unevenness helps depth perception. Try illuminating a smooth mud floor with a 'pure' flood, and it really doesn't work as well as an impure flood.



f22shift said:


> actually, i want to go on some side rant. i don't like to buy any mainstream light(fenix, petzl, foursevens, etc) that can be bought in brick & mortar stores. I've talked to a flashlight manufacturer before on their dealings with outdoor companies like rei etc. these stores affect the flashlight designs as they demand this or that because that's what sells to the general consumer. they will choose whether or not to carry your brand. didn't anyone notice how headlamps have oranges or yellows or something else. people purchase on price and oh that looks pretty. i don't want a light that has been compromised by a store so they can sell more.


That's not really a 'store' issue, it's you having different purchasing criteria to the average person.
Zebralight are also designing things because they think they can sell them, it's just that they have a particular niche market.


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## insanefred (Jul 3, 2015)

P_A_S_1 said:


> On the home page for the headlamp reviews there is an 'overview' page where they state how they test the lights and what criteria they use. It states for brightness they brought and used a light meter.
> 
> 
> This may help too...
> http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Best-Headlamp/How-We-Test



They use a lux meter to measure brightness.. hmm. No wonder they think a 350+ lumens pure flood is dimmer than a 130 lumen light. I think their ratings are far more deceptive than the manufactures claims.


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## Woods Walker (Jul 3, 2015)

This is such a silly thread. I wonder what's the attraction as posted here myself?


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## P_A_S_1 (Jul 3, 2015)

In regards to the OutdoorGear Lab I understand that not everyone on this forum is going to be satisfied with how they conduct their tests. The tests may not demonstrate certain strong points of one light or may overlook others we feel are important and some might not get past seeing a light they consider good considered bad by others. When they rated the Minimus, a light I have, they gave it a so so review and honestly some of their critique was spot on however for my personal applications it fits my needs better then the lights they rated 'better'. I posted the link to help assist the OP, not to take the thread elsewhere.


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## Bullzeyebill (Jul 5, 2015)

Let's move on guys. Enough critiquing of OutdoorGear Lab's testing procedures. Members have made their points, pro and con.

Bill


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