# Duracell Quantums discontinued !



## Burgess (Aug 8, 2019)

Even though I avoid Alkalines ,
I certainly DO pay attention to them in the marketplace.

Duracell has now Discontinued their Quantum line,
which they HAD touted as: The Most Advanced Alkaline Battery in the World !

It is now being Replaced, apparently,
(at least in AA and AAA sizes)
by their new Duracell OPTIMUM line !


Don't know any Specific differences between the two.
Duracell's web page offers No Clue whatsoever.

My "gut feeling" is that Duracell Quantums have
*disappointed* too any people, so now Duracell wants to
distance themselves from THAT lineup, and push forth
something ELSE. Something "even BETTER" !
< wink >

Waiting to hear if there really *IS* 
any Significant difference !


_


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 8, 2019)

The real improvement will come when they discontinue their entire line of alkaleaks.


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## Kestrel (Aug 8, 2019)

So their marketing department was getting a little nervous about company downsizing & is trying to justify their budget ??


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## ampdude (Aug 8, 2019)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> The real improvement will come when they discontinue their entire line of alkaleaks.



Alkalines fill plenty of roles as a cheap battery better than NIMH rechargeables, carbon zinc, or more expensive lithium cells can.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 9, 2019)

ampdude said:


> Alkalines fill plenty of roles as a cheap battery better than NIMH rechargeables, carbon zinc, or more expensive lithium cells can.



Only if you don't care about the device you're using them in. All it takes is one leak in a remote control to wipe out any savings you got from using alkaleaks instead of Eneloops.


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## InvisibleFrodo (Aug 9, 2019)

The only place I like disposable batteries is in TV remote controls... But usually I’ll have the batteries that came with the TV in there for years. I’ve never had one of those leak...


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## Frijid (Aug 10, 2019)

I saw a pack about 2 weeks ago and bought them to test on a C9000. First thing I noticed was the complete lack of notification of the country of origin. I don't have the test results right at the moment, but I do recall that their capacity ratings were roughly sometimes slightly more, sometimes slightly less than rayovac fusions. Really nothing too impressive. One thing I did notice, and this may come from their advertisement for these batteries as the "extra power" part, but their voltage didn't sag as low under load as others usually do. Even on the 1 amp discharge setting, I was impressed. So that could be helpful when used in a motorized device. But, it may have also been from the batteries being extremely fresh.


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## MidnightDistortions (Aug 10, 2019)

ampdude said:


> Alkalines fill plenty of roles as a cheap battery better than NIMH rechargeables, carbon zinc, or more expensive lithium cells can.



Actually NiMH batteries have gotten fairly cheap. I've seen ones that are under a $1 per NiMH cell. They are cheap but they work adequately. Or just buy a pack of Eneloops with the charger and they'll last 5+ years. The main reason people still use alkalines is because they dont know how rechargeable work or they can't be bothered or remember to charge them. Or they have no idea that Eneloops hold their charge for a long time and even out lasts alkaline batteries in storage. The last reason is either they think the device wont work with rechargeables (per manufacturer recommendations) or they actually don't work right with NiMH batteries. I haven't bought alkalines since 1997.



WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Only if you don't care about the device you're using them in. All it takes is one leak in a remote control to wipe out any savings you got from using alkaleaks instead of Eneloops.



Eneloops have proven that they outlast alkalines and that there really is no need to buy single use batteries again. At least in my case. Even if you only get 5 uses out of them it's still better than a battery destroying your device. But I've gotten over 100 recharges even with the cheapo NiMH batteries.


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## ampdude (Aug 13, 2019)

Well the main reason I have alkalines nowadays is for emergency stash. Rechargeables will only go so far in that situation. Rechargeables won't go as far as a pile of fresh primaries, alkaline, lithium or otherwise. But I'm also not going to keep recharging batteries for my remotes/clocks/radios/cheap flashlights.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 13, 2019)

ampdude said:


> Well the main reason I have alkalines nowadays is for emergency stash. Rechargeables will only go so far in that situation. Rechargeables won't go as far as a pile of fresh primaries, alkaline, lithium or otherwise. But I'm also not going to keep recharging batteries for my remotes/clocks/radios/cheap flashlights.



Eneloops hold their charge for 10 years. How much longer do you need???


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## alpg88 (Aug 13, 2019)

i used them few times, bought them for their meter strip, besides that they performed no better or worst than regular Duracell. but they were more expensive, maybe that is why they were not selling well. they used to be like 3 bucks more over regular copper top for a pack of 8 iirc,


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## Frijid (Aug 13, 2019)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Eneloops hold their charge for 10 years. How much longer do you need???



True, but if they go dead, you can't recharge when the power is out. A 16 pack of rayovac is 10 bucks at Wal-Mart vs however much a 16 pack of eneloops are. Nimh when the power is on, alkaline when its not is my game plan


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## Kestrel (Aug 13, 2019)

And don't forget about having the option of trading/selling the alkaline AA's to friends (enemies?) in a tight situation;

I have very little interest in diminishing my supply of rechargeables in a situation such as that.


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## peter yetman (Aug 13, 2019)

It's probably not a popular point, but it will be soon, no-one has mentioned the environment.
Eneloops and Li-ions all the way for me, my lights and my environment.
P


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## alpg88 (Aug 13, 2019)

i tried using tenergy centura in my radio shack universal remote control, it did not work due to lower voltage.


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## bignc (Aug 13, 2019)

I have alkaline D and C cells still for the kids maglites and the starter for the outdoor propane shower. I replace them annually. I should probably replace them with Nimh but dangit- I only trust eneloops and dont want to go the "adapter route" maybe I should anyway?


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## alpg88 (Aug 13, 2019)

bignc said:


> I have alkaline D and C cells still for the kids maglites and the starter for the outdoor propane shower. I replace them annually. I should probably replace them with Nimh but dangit- I only trust eneloops and dont want to go the "adapter route" maybe I should anyway?



tenergy makes C and D nimh LSD centura series, i used their D cells before in a toy, they worked great, same for premium series but they are not LSD, their blue cells are not that good, i had several fail.


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## ampdude (Aug 14, 2019)

WalkIntoTheLight said:


> Eneloops hold their charge for 10 years. How much longer do you need???



Where can I get 200 eneloops for the price of alkalines? How will the eneloops perform in cold weather compared to lithiums? Sorry but my experience with nimh chemistry is that they just do not last anywhere near 10 years. More like 3-4. And forget about long term if you let their voltage get low for too long. Nicads will do that, take all kinds of voltage and temperature abuse, but even lithium ion won't. I have 20 year old lithium primaries I can pull out of the box and they work fine though. Every chemistry has its good and bad points. There is no one size fits all with everything as people often want to believe.


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## WalkIntoTheLight (Aug 15, 2019)

ampdude said:


> Where can I get 200 eneloops for the price of alkalines?



You only have to recharge them a few times, before they become more cost-effective than throwing away alkaleaks. Plus, all it takes is one leak to wipe-out any price advantage from your cheap alkaline purchase.



> How will the eneloops perform in cold weather compared to lithiums?



Duracells are alkaline cells, not lithium cells. Eneloops are good down to -20C. I use them in some outdoor thermometers, and they continue to work down to -30C. Below that, they're too weak to transmit a good signal back to the base.

Lithium primaries (Energizer Ultimate Lithium) are good down to -40C. So, lithium primaries have the advantage there, but they cost about the same as Eneloops and you can only use them once.

Alkalines (the Duracell we're talking about) perform horribly in cold weather. Eneloops perform far better.



> Sorry but my experience with nimh chemistry is that they just do not last anywhere near 10 years. More like 3-4. And forget about long term if you let their voltage get low for too long.



Yeah, that's the way it used to be before 2006 when Eneloops were introduced. They blow away the old kind of NiMH batteries. I'm still using Eneloops I bought back in 2006, and they're still performing very well.




> Nicads will do that, take all kinds of voltage and temperature abuse, but even lithium ion won't. I have 20 year old lithium primaries I can pull out of the box and they work fine though. Every chemistry has its good and bad points. There is no one size fits all with everything as people often want to believe.



Again, we're talking about alkalines. They suck, period. Eneloops can be used as a 99.999% replacement for them. The only thing that alkalines can do better is have a higher voltage for the first part of their discharge curve. But anything that requires a voltage that high will never use more than about a third of the alkaline capacity, so the device sucks even more than the battery.


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## bykfixer (Aug 15, 2019)

In the world outside of CPF, rechargeables have taken tremendous chunks of market share. It's not unlike being a saddle seller in the early days of the horseless carriage. So companies like Duracell are scrambling to hang on to remaining market share. It's that simple. 

Todays world of electronic devices are often times designed and built around proprietary size and shaped batteries. Combine that with more efficiency in the things that use the once mighty double a battery leads to less and less demand for batteries from a Duracell display in the big box store. Add super cheap batteries included with things like the computer mouse or wall clock to reduce demand even further. 

One move Energizer made was to slash the price they charge for ultimate lithiums to retailers helped move a bunch of those last year. But it was probably too little too late for those. A cost of $2.50 each was reduced to a buck 35 but still too high for the typical battery buyer when they can get 24 Rayovacs for $11 versus 8 for $12. We're talking about a large segment of a population who use a celphone for light but then have no clue why the battery is dead when they need a phone. 

Alkaline technology peeked a while ago but now companies like Rayovac are developing formulas that can provide more power, more consistantly. Duracell and Energizer used to discount ole Rayovac same as GM and Chrysler once scoffed at Toyota. But these days the copper top is not evoking the image of keeping up with the times so sales are largely going to The Price is Right crowd whose population is shrinking with each addition to the obituary column in the newspaper. 

Alkalines still have their place, but that place has shrunken drastically in the last decade.


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## alpg88 (Aug 15, 2019)

almost all  proprietary batteries are li ion, short them out and see what happens, short out alkaline, and nothing happens, there is a huge place for alkaline in child toys accessories market, almost all of them use alkaline, i have a feeling safety is one of the reasons, remote controls, wall clocks .normal people flashlights, (go to home depot or walmart, vast majority of lights they sell use alkalines,)... so the market is still huge. just because few of us (compared to word population) use flashlights with li ion, did not bite anything off alkaline market, imo


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## MidnightDistortions (Aug 17, 2019)

Frijid said:


> True, but if they go dead, you can't recharge when the power is out. A 16 pack of rayovac is 10 bucks at Wal-Mart vs however much a 16 pack of eneloops are. Nimh when the power is on, alkaline when its not is my game plan



I bought a set of 16 Eneloops and 2 chargers with the batteries in 2014. I still have 10 in storage and some in flashlights in case of a power outage. Everytime I check them they still work holding at 70%. If those were alkalines they would have leaked out by now in those flashlights so for 5 years without ever charging them once (charged from the factory) so I'd say already they did well with the technology where alkalines are no longer needed. Alkalines are well where if you happen to have no batteries on hand and need them during a power outage. But by then those batteries would be out of stock at stores due to people's lack of preparedness. You could always get a Goal Zero Guide 10 and use your car's usb (or adapter) to recharge dead Eneloops in the event you have no power at home.



peter yetman said:


> It's probably not a popular point, but it will be soon, no-one has mentioned the environment.
> Eneloops and Li-ions all the way for me, my lights and my environment.
> P



I look at it as a money saver. Haven't bought an alkaline battery for so long that has made me realized that I probably saved over $1,000 alone in battery recharges alone.



ampdude said:


> Well the main reason I have alkalines nowadays is for emergency stash. Rechargeables will only go so far in that situation. Rechargeables won't go as far as a pile of fresh primaries, alkaline, lithium or otherwise. But I'm also not going to keep recharging batteries for my remotes/clocks/radios/cheap flashlights.



I have a couple of devices where Eneloops get drained too quickly. One is a weather station that requires a battery recharge about every 4 months. Another is my computer mouse that I dont always remember to shut off when it's not needed. Either way I got extras on hand i just swap them out and charge the dead cells, toss them in a drawer and use them when a set somewhere is dead.


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## Catnap (May 22, 2020)

An anecdotal answer to your query-- I bought a number of packages of Quantum batteries on Clearance because of discontinuation. Their best by date is 2027. In use, I've found them to be powerful, however, I've had a few more than acceptable instances of them leaking prematurely, so I can only presume they were discontinued for being defective. I just checked two irreplaceable appliances with these batteries inside, and both sets had leaked, and a few of them are bulging and look ready to explode. I seem to have caught this in time to avoid damaging the items, but I'm livid at the lack of information out there on Quantums and that they could have done irreparable damage to my goods!


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## snakebite (May 24, 2020)

i tested some optimums in the c9000.
they are better at high load.
and they are nickel oxyhydroxide not alkaline.
they started over 1.7v.
whether they are going to be leakers is unknown.
at the price i still go for nimh every time.


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## Burgess (May 25, 2020)

Thank you for that info,
Snakebite !


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## BytorJr (May 27, 2020)

I have a few things that won't work with NiMH - door lock for example and a few temperature sensors around the house; but of all the batteries, Duracell leaks the most for me. Not even Rayovac leaks that much (and they used to be the worst for me by far). I had some cells in for less than a year on a low drain device (something that displays those temps using LCD) and it went out a month ago. Today I got around to putting new batteries in; but not until I'd alcohol rubbed the contacts to clean them from the LEAK.


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## radellaf (Aug 19, 2021)

snakebite said:


> i tested some optimums in the c9000. they are better at high load. and they are nickel oxyhydroxide not alkaline.
> they started over 1.7v. whether they are going to be leakers is unknown.


 
So the Quantums were just _supposedly_ better regular alkalines (like energizer titanium or something), but the Optimums are Panasonic Oxyrides or Duracell PowerPix resurrected?

I have a pack of Quantums that didn't really perform better than Duracells when I tested, but I only measured mAh not mWh. If the Optimums are a higher voltage chemistry they might be good for my horribly designed thermostat (craps out at 1.35V or so). Naturally, I tried Energizer Lithium Advanced in it. Get this: they "died" in about a month. Except they're not dead. They're about 1.6V, but they trip the "replace battery" indicator. I'm at a bit of a loss. Maybe a higher voltage alkaline would last longer. Or those 1.5V LiPo AA cells at $5 each. I got a pack of those but the uses for them are extremely limited. No radios, too much RFI. 90% of flashlights draw more than an amp on high, and that's more than they can do. So... you could run a fan faster, have a brighter LED flashlight that probably cost less than the two batteries it uses (Energizer had a 2xAA that was near useless at 1.2V), make some badly designed motorized equipment work like electronic door locks... or you could burn out motorized devices that run for more than a minute at a time, or pop the bulb in a mini-mag in maybe 10 hours. IDK, they're interesting.

As for the thermostat, I also could just look up again how to put some voltage on the wire from the furnace that _should_ be powering the thermostat. I think it's not that hard to do, I just haven't felt like sticking my soldering iron in the furnace. Maybe this fall when the weather is so nice that if I killed it, we could get service in less than a week. The previous 'stat ran over 5 years on one set of alkalines (didn't know it had batteries), this one gets maybe a year. So, really, it'd just be an excuse to by Optimums because they look neat.


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## GarageBoy (Aug 26, 2021)

I wonder how much the market for 1.5v batteries have shrunk. I've even seen TV remotes use coin cells. I keep a handful of alkalines aa and aaa around, but not even sure the last time I needed them.

The only thing I use AA lithiums for are my emergency bag, and my blink outdoor security camera. 

What even uses C and D cells anymore? Seems like everything has a built in battery and you're supposed to dispose of the whole thing when it stops taking a charge


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## vicv (Aug 26, 2021)

Maglites still use C's and D's!


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## radellaf (Aug 28, 2021)

Still must be a alkaline market for all sizes, but it is a good question. I still see piles of them at all retailers so I assume they are selling. AA/AAA/9V dominate but there are always plenty of C and D, unless a hurricane is coming.

Uses for C and D:
I just bought half a dozen new MagLites that are C or D. Really looking forward to trying the "grenade grip" matte anodize 3D ML50LX, and the 2C ML25LT ($20 !). Not planning to feed them alkalines, though. Centura were a bit much so I'm trying EBL 5Ah C and 10Ah D NiMH. Not that those were exactly _cheap_. Don't need many cycles. Would be nice if they're still good 10 years later, like my 2 Centura D cells.

Larger portable radios often use 3 D cells. Panasonic uses 4AA in the RF2400.

Lanterns often still use D cells. I have the last lantern I bought (pre-18650 flashlight takeover) sitting next to an 8 pack of Duracell Ds that I got free with a coupon after some other Duracells leaked in another flashlight. Again, about a decade ago. The new pack is good: no leaking.

Remotes:
I sorta wish my roku took a CR2032 or something. I had 2xAAA panasonic alkaleaks in there and... yeah... they did. Caught it pretty early. Switched to RayOVac heavy duty AAA - those seem built to not leak. The 1990 JVC irreplaceable remote has NiMH. IDK if that reduces the range. Seems OK. Only remote where I thought about what battery it used was when I almost got an Apple TV, before finding out the remote had a sealed-in LiPo that'd cost $80 to replace (for a $150 product). Got a Roku instead. Saved $100, uses 2xAAA.

Rechargeable 1.5V AA:
A lot of people in the 1.5V lithium rechargable AA/AAA reviews seem to think remotes need fresh batteries. I don't notice a difference. I got some of those but they're really hard to find a use for. $5 ea and can't take "high" currents. Door locks, blood pressure cuffs, power screwdrivers, massagers, toy cars, and other stuff with unregulated motors seem to be good (maybe not if the motor runs for a long time).

Cameras:
I keep hearing about these "blink cameras". Apparently the 1.5V AA should work in them, as an alternative to primary lithium AAs, but it seems a crapshoot. I know it's not a conspiracy to sell batteries, but it does seem slipshod engineering that they don't use a LiFePO4 cell and a solar panel. Keep it simple for the user, I guess? IDK, not interested in any home cameras that require an internet connection (vs a local PC, maybe with cloud backup).

Duracell Optimum:
FWIW, I bought a pack. I'm futzing with trying to get Data Explorer working reliably so I can do a mAh mWh test at various cutoff voltages vs regular alkaline. Seems they update DEX itself, but it still wants JRE v11, when 16 is the current Java version. I hate Java. Whatever, it seems to be working. Gonna test with some NiMH before doing a disposable battery run.


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## radellaf (Aug 28, 2021)

Wow, the Optimums are no Quantums. When I tested the Quantums on the C9000 at 1A they did about the same as any other good AA, IIRC. The Optimums are also not like the Oxyride (Panasonic Power Edge) Silverfox tested, which started off strong but then the curve crossed over around 1.1V and they fell short of a regular AA for low cutoff voltages (945mAh, 1235mWh at 500mA 0.8V).

The Optimum just stayed 100-150mV above a Coppertop Duracell for the whole 500mA discharge down to 0.9V. At 1.1V cutoff they had about 50% more mWh and mAh. Down at 0.9V it fell to about 18% more mWh and 9% mAh. I paid more than twice as much, though, about 90 cents, for an alkaline that delivered energy and capacity comparable to an eneloop at 500mA, though at a higher voltage for about half that time. Still expensive, still going to leak, but pretty impressive for an alkaline. Love to know what the super-secret cathode mixture contains. After so many disappointing fancy alkalines over the years, it's nice to see one that is significantly better.

OP= Optimum, CT= CopperTop
Time Cell Volts mAh (mWh)
0:15 CT 1.3V 131 (180)
0:45 CT 1.2V 379 (490)
1:03 OP 1.3V 525 (735)
1:34 CT 1.1V 785 (960)
1:40 OP 1.2V 840 (1100)
2:22 OP 1.1V 1180 (1500)
2:30 CT 1.0V 1250 (1450)
3:01 OP 1.0V 1500 (1900)
3:10 CT 0.9V 1577 (1760)
3:26 OP 0.9V 1718 (2074)


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## ampdude (Aug 29, 2021)

I saw these Quantum cells in Walmart the other day. The packaging was eye catching. I didn't look very long, but it seems pretty expensive for a few batteries. I think Duracell realizes how cheap people are and that there's really not much of a market for these cells.. Most people who still use alkalines buy them in large packages and don't really worry about a little extra capacity, they just change the batteries.


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## LithiumSunset (Aug 29, 2021)

ampdude said:


> Where can I get 200 eneloops for the price of alkalines? How will the eneloops perform in cold weather compared to lithiums? Sorry but my experience with nimh chemistry is that they just do not last anywhere near 10 years. More like 3-4. And forget about long term if you let their voltage get low for too long. Nicads will do that, take all kinds of voltage and temperature abuse, but even lithium ion won't. I have 20 year old lithium primaries I can pull out of the box and they work fine though. Every chemistry has its good and bad points. There is no one size fits all with everything as people often want to believe.


I agree 100%
Plus there are certain devices (like the Brother ptouch label maker) that refuse to correctly work if fed with ni-mh due to the lower voltage (it accepts 6 aaa batteries so there's a 1,8v drop with ni-mh and it's too much)


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## DaveTheDude (Sep 1, 2021)

GarageBoy said:


> What even uses C and D cells anymore? Seems like everything has a built in battery and you're supposed to dispose of the whole thing when it stops taking a charge


Responding to the rhetorical question about uses for alkaline C and/or D cells, I seem to recall that the C cells have four times the energy density of a AA cell, and the energy density of a D cell is right times greater than the humble AA. In my anecdotal experience, I have never had a C or D cell leak, which suggests that they have a legitimate place in an emergency kit. Also, CountyComm manufactures single-cell C and D "coke can" lights that provide really long runtimes. The C-cell version can also easily accommodate an 18500 cell for more punch and higher candela. 

Bottom line, I'm willing to bet that the good people of Louisiana would really appreciate having one of these C or D-cell lights and a few extra batteries right about now.


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## radellaf (Sep 1, 2021)

Some 200mA results. Much more reasonable drain for an alkaline (i.e., more mAh than an Eneloop). Did a Coppertop (2030 exp) and Procell (2027). Compared to Coppertop: 86% more mWh at 1.3V cutoff, 27% at 1.2, 14% at 1.1, 12% at 1.0, and 7% more at 0.9. Running them down below 50mA, I was able to eek out a few more mAh from the non-Optimum cells but not mWh. So, even at low drain, you get substantial improvements with high voltage cutoffs. A Coppertop would only be better with an unregulated LED run down to starlight levels before you gave up. Or, if you want your minimag bulb to last longer.

`Cutoff Optimum Coppertop Procell
1.3 925 (1300) 512 (700) 517 (700)
1.2 1384 (1900) 1133 (1500) 1121 (1500)
1.1 1885 (2500) 1745 (2200) 1715 (2200)
1.0 2177 (2800) 2064 (2500) 2020 (2500)
0.9 2250 (2900) 2232 (2700) 2148 (2600)`


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## radellaf (Sep 1, 2021)

I have definitely had C and D cells leak. Energizer refused to pay for the destroyed Maglite because "the cells were past the expiration date", and I'd removed the cells from the device. I think the only reason I haven't seen many leaking larger cells is that I haven't used as many. As for the P-touch, my 6 AA one worked fine on eneloops. Really poor design of anything, no matter how many cells, if it can't run all the cells down to about 1 volt. There were excuses 20 years ago, but now? Switching regulator chips are far too cheap and easy to design in. Maybe there's an excuse for a smoke detector, where you'd need a quiescent drain low enough to stretch an AA, boosted to 8V, for a year or two. A relatively expensive label maker? No. Design it for 5 cells and throw in a linear regulator if you want to be that cheap. You'll still save your customer on batteries.
As for the energy density, that would hold up for a radio. For a 700mA flashlight, just as good to use a 3xAA parallel holder for D cell use. 6Ah is more than you'll get off alkaline, as I recall. And, really, is it important to be able to run your radio 4-8 times longer on one (maybe leaking) set of C or D cells, vs the 20-50 hours a few AA will give you?
What the good people of Louisiana could really use are some truly functional solar charging USB power banks. 20W+ panels that actually work, are durable, easy to use, and affordable. Also, there also aren't a great deal of functional-off-alkaline phone chargers. Panasonic makes a 4xAA to USB that's great, but 1 amp at 5V is way too much for alkalines. Better than nothing, of course. Not that the phone is all that useful in many parts of the disaster. A radio is about all that's going to get you any communications right now. The phones do have flashlights, though.
As for NiMH longevity, I have functional 2006 Eneloops, and perfectly good 2008 Eneloops. Mostly charged in the C9000. Charge terminate under 40 (or at least 45 deg), and don't cycle them hundreds of times, and NiMH lasts. Pack of 20-40 cells, a conservative 100 cycles each (200, realistically)? I call that equipped for an emergency. Sure, grab a 40 pack of alkalines for extra backup or to give to neighbors in a crisis. Get some Ultra Lithiums if it's freezing cold where you are, and your devices can handle the overvoltage (1.8x4 is past spec for many of my radios). My old emergency kit had 2 cell incandescent AA lights that probably wouldn't have made it an hour with the lithium AAs before blowing the bulb. But, sure, get a pack of those, too. For a real emergency kit, $100 on batteries is fine. I've gone way beyond that... but don't have more than a couple of gallons of water storage.


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## radellaf (Sep 10, 2021)

Discovered the secret of the Optimum is "Beta-delithated layered nickel oxide" Love patents.


https://patents.google.com/patent/US10232520


some discharge graphs in there that look familiar.


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