# NiteCore Defender Infinity - Golden Dragon Plus Review



## UnknownVT (Aug 21, 2008)

On loan through the kind courtesy of 4sevens (http://4sevens.com) -
NiteCore Defender Infinity, Golden Dragon Plus

_IMPORTANT NOTE_: this is a *pre-production* unit that I've had for about a month - and may NOT reflect the full-production unit - which I am about to get hold of.......

Size -





this is same picture I used in NiteCore Defender Infinity Comparison Review 

Heads -





vs. Q5 NiteCore Defender Infinity both Max NiMH












The newer Golden Dragon Plus has a much smoother beam without the notorious dark halo of the Cree - the sample of one of the Q5 NDI seems to be a just a bit brighter than the Golden Dragon Plus version.

*Index to follow up parts* -

Part 2 - Comparisons using 3.7V Rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 - Post #*7*

Comparisons using NiMH - Post #*20*

Tint shift toward blue on Li-Ion 14500 when the light has been on for some time (perhaps due to getting warmer?) - Post #*27*

Tint shift test of pre-production unit from room temp - Post #*30* 

Full-Production unit tested on Li-Ion 14500 compared to pre-production - 
specifically to see if there is any tint shift + runtime - Post #*33*

Production unit on NiMH - Post #*41* 

Standardized Stairway beamshot - Post #*56*

Li-Ion 14500 comparison with other lights - Post #*65*

Minimum level comparisons using NiMH - Post #*68*

Outdoors foliage comparison - Post #*84*


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## LED-holic (Aug 21, 2008)

Awesome shots Vincent. Thanks for the speedy review.

How about some outside beamshots, and beamshots further away, say 5 feet, 7 feet, 10 feet?

I only notice the rings when I hold my D10 about 1 to 1.5 feet from the wall, which is not how I use my light 99% of the time.

Personally which do you prefer?

Also, does the GDP+ run cooler than the Q5, and if so, how much cooler? Any tint observations? Do you think it's warmer? And any ideas yet on run time?

Oh yea, is the low the same, or is it different as well?


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## LightWalker (Aug 21, 2008)

The GDP beam looks very good, similar to the Novatac. Makes me want to sell my Cree lights.


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## lumafist (Aug 21, 2008)

........


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## MonkRX (Aug 21, 2008)

Thanks for the beam shots!
The Q5 looks a tad warmer than the GDP. UnknownVT, would you agree to this? (as its difficult to tell in the pictures).

Then again, the GDP is supposed to have a higher CRI, so I guess color temp isn't that important between different emitters.


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## WadeF (Aug 21, 2008)

How does the GD Plus render colors compared to the Cree?


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## UnknownVT (Aug 21, 2008)

Part 2 - 

Comparisons using 3.7V rechargeable Li-Ion 14500 -

_IMPORTANT NOTE_: this is a *pre-production* unit that I've had for about a month - and may NOT reflect the full-production unit - which I am about to get hold of.......

Size -





Heads -





vs. NiteCore Defender Infinity Cree Q5 - both Max and Li-Ion 14500 -







hmmmm..... on 3.7V Li-Ion 14500 the Golden Dragon Plus looks blue relative to the already cool Q5 Cree.

vs. Fenix L1D-Q5 both on Max and 3.7V Li-Ion 14500 -







again the Golden Dragon Plus looks quite blue in comparison with another coolish Cree Q5 - the Fenix is a bit brighter.

The smooth beam of this Golden Dragon Plus reminded me of the Rebel series -

vs. Fenix L1D-RB100 (L2D-RB100 head on L1D body) both Max & Li-Ion 14500







both beams are smooth - but the Rebel 100 has a much better tint - and is brighter.

vs. Fenix L1T v2 RB80 both Max and Li-Ion 14500







comparable - except the Rebel 80 has the better tint........

vs. Fenix P3D-RB100 Rebel on primary CR123, both Max -







similar smoothness - but the P3D-RB100 is noticably brighter and has much nicer tint.


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## PhantomPhoton (Aug 21, 2008)

Wow that is getting pretty "angry" with a 14500. 
Definitely smoother than the crees shown there. Too bad you don't have a LF5XT to compare beam smoothness. 
Definitely going to make me think pretty hard about this.


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## yaesumofo (Aug 21, 2008)

there is no doubt about the Golden dragon being cooler. it is plain to see in the images with so much BLUE in the shadows and dark areas.
The Golden dragon's that I have are cool but very white and bright.
Yaesumofo


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## brucec (Aug 21, 2008)

Wow...so did the GD get bluer using 14500? Much less "golden" than I would have thought. Regardless, that's a nice beam profile. Thanks for posting.


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## jzmtl (Aug 21, 2008)

Woah! When used on nimh what is the tint like to the eye? Can you detect any blue without a comparison?

I preordered the ex10, hope it won't be this blue, otherwise I'll have to cancel it.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 21, 2008)

Wow that tint is really ugly :thumbsdow


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## neoseikan (Aug 21, 2008)

A terrible tint.
I still prefer Warm White.


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## frosty (Aug 21, 2008)

The Fenix P3D-Rebel 100 is one of my all time favourites. Very smooth beam with a warm tint.


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## 4sevens (Aug 21, 2008)

Just a quick note - UnknownVT's NDI-GD was a pre-production light that he
has had for testing for over a month. It doesn't have the same bin as the
production lights. I'll ask him if he would be willing to check out a production
piece now that we have them in stock.


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## Paul6ppca (Aug 21, 2008)

4sevens said:


> Just a quick note - UnknownVT's NDI-GD was a pre-production light that he
> has had for testing for over a month. It doesn't have the same bin as the
> production lights. I'll ask him if he would be willing to check out a production
> piece now that we have them in stock.


 

I think that would sway a lot of people if we know the tint is good(not purpleish)
Are you able to post some beamshotsof cree vs GD +,it would save a lot of speculation,and reading !


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## jag-engr (Aug 21, 2008)

Personally, I was excited when I heard about the EX10 and D10 being available with a better emitter (I really don't like Crees), but when I saw these shots, I was disappointed.

I can only hope that we're just looking at a bad emitter. I can't understand how anything that blue could have a higher CRI than a normal emitter.

4sevens, please post some beam shots when you get the chance. The beam quality is an obvious improvement, but that color...


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## UnknownVT (Aug 21, 2008)

4sevens said:


> Just a quick note - UnknownVT's NDI-GD was a pre-production light that he
> has had for testing for over a month. It doesn't have the same bin as the
> production lights. I'll ask him if he would be willing to check out a production
> piece now that we have them in stock.


 
This is correct - I was a bit shocked to see so much blue when used on Li-Ion 14500 - which I did not see when just on NiMH.

I'll be in touch to get hold of a full production unit to compare.


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## divine (Aug 21, 2008)

Please get some stairwell shots. :thumbsup:


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## UnknownVT (Aug 21, 2008)

_IMPORTANT NOTE_: this is a *pre-production* unit that I've had for about a month - and may NOT reflect the full-production unit - which I am about to get hold of.......

Comparison of _Pre-Production_ unit on NiMH -max

vs. Fenix L1D-Q5 both on NiMH and Max brightness -







similar brightness ans similar cool tint - notice the very blue tint seen when using 3.7V Li-Ion 14500 is absent. Much smoother beam than the already excellent Fenix L1D-Q5

vs. Fenix L1D-RB100 both on NiMH and Max brightness -







again similar levels - perhaps the NDI GD+ is a bit brighter - both beams are very smooth - the NDI GD+ might be considered a bit smoother - although the scallopped bezel encroaches. However the Rebel has a much nicer/warmer tint.

vs. Fenix L1T v2 RB80 both on NiMH and Max brightness -







The NDI GD+ is brighter with similar smooth beam - the tint difference isn't as great compared to the RB80 although the GD+ is still a bit cooler.

vs. Fenix P3D-RB100 Rebel on primary CR123, both Max







no doubt that the P3D-RB100 is brighter - but that is expected - notice the Golden Dragon Plus smooth beam rivalling the Rebel series in the Fenixes.

vs. NiteCore D10 both on NiMH and Max brightness







smoother beam from the GD+ both are cool'ish - D10 seems a bit brighter.

In real life the GD+ on NiMH does _NOT_ look as blue - in fact it looked warmer than the Fenix L1D-Q5 and about the same as the D10 and NDI (both Cree Q5)

Next up minimum/low level comparisons.


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## TodToh (Aug 22, 2008)

..In real life the GD+ on NiMH does _NOT_ look as blue..

IMO in real life the CREE doesn't notice the dark ring too. 


but thank you for your great review as always.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 22, 2008)

Looks like the hot spot is twice as big as the L1D...but the L1D has a brighter spill...over all, perhaps the same total output? I wonder how run times will compare?


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## UnknownVT (Aug 22, 2008)

TodToh said:


> ..In real life the GD+ on NiMH does _NOT_ look as blue..
> IMO in real life the CREE doesn't notice the dark ring too.


 
This is a fair comment.

In just about all practical real-life usage almost any flashlight would be fine - including incandescents which have relatively speaking "horrible" beams compared to most LEDs. We have been spoilt by close to "perfect" beams of LEDs.

However my remark was really in reference to the beamshot photos - where the Golden Dragon Plus on 3.7V Li-Ion 14500 looked very blue - in real-life it just did not look as obviously blue.

As for the dark halo - a good example was the Fenix L1D-Q5 that I used for comparison - in the beamshot photos it almost is not there - _BUT_ in real life any time I shine the light on any plain surface I can see the dark halo.

So for me it was the opposite to the blue tint of the GD+.

Although most of the time photos do reflect what I see - 
there are occassionally limitations - 
and I feel obliged to point out and report the differences to what I actually see - albeit strictly qualitative/subjective.


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## Paul6ppca (Aug 22, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> This is a fair comment.
> 
> In just about all practical real-life usage almost any flashlight would be fine - including incandescents which have relatively speaking "horrible" beams compared to most LEDs. We have been spoilt by close to "perfect" beams of LEDs.
> 
> ...


 
Is 7777 sending you a newer production light to compare? If so when?

I like my D10 but would love to get rid of the cree ring,I am very interested in this light.I really like my smart pd for its size and UI works for me.So Im hoping that the production version is whiter/neutral.


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## UnknownVT (Aug 22, 2008)

Paul6ppca said:


> Is 7777 sending you a newer production light to compare? If so when?


 
Hopefully I may have one in hand by tonight......


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## Nitroz (Aug 22, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> Hopefully I may have one in hand by tonight......


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## UnknownVT (Aug 22, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> in reference to the beamshot photos - the Golden Dragon Plus on 3.7V Li-Ion 14500 looked very blue - in real-life it just did not look as obviously blue.


 
I have been pondering this still on the pre-production sample I have -
I thought I saw the blueness increase as the light was on longer (ie: getting warmer)

So to prove there was a shift toward blue as the light stays on (perhaps due to getting warmer) - I put the Golden Dragon Plus version in the refrigerator for several minutes, and took some beamshots immediately after I turned the light on using 3.7V Li-Ion 14500 - then waited about 4-5 minutes and took another set -

NDI - GD+ on Li-Ion 14500 Cold ~00min -








(note the beam of the GD+ looks softer/diffused probabaly because of misting/condensation on the front lens -as the light was "cold")

~4-5mins Later







the light was distinctly warm/hot and to me the tint has gone a more obvious blue.

So I think there is a shift to blue as the light is used longer on Li-Ion 14500 - perhaps due to the light getting warmer?


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## jzmtl (Aug 22, 2008)

Does it have tint shift like that when on nimh?

Definately looking forward to when the new sample arrives, I hate blue tint.


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## UnknownVT (Aug 22, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> Does it have tint shift like that when on nimh?


 
Not that I've noticed - the beamshots on NiMH in Post #*20* were taken over several minutes with the GD+ on Max and I don't think there is any shift that's noticable in the series of comparison beamshots.


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## UnknownVT (Aug 22, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> I thought I saw the blueness increase as the light was on longer (ie: getting warmer)
> So to prove there was a shift toward blue as the light stays on (perhaps due to getting warmer) - I put the Golden Dragon Plus version in the refrigerator for several minutes
> (note the beam of the GD+ looks softer/diffused probabaly because of misting/condensation on the front lens -as the light was "cold")


 
I didn't like putting the light in the refrigerator as this was a bit "artificial".

So I re-did my comparison beamshots - but this time just allowing the GD+ to cool down to normal room temperature.

However to catch the GD+ before it shifts toward blue I did make one concession in setting everything up ready to take the beamshot and then turning on the GD+ and immediately taking the shot - then adjusting for -2 stops underexposure (matter of mere seconds) and taking that shot.
Then I waited for about 4-5 minutes to take the next set of beamshots.

~00 min Room Temp start -








~4-5 mins Later








So for a room temp start the GD+ is much less blue, 
and then it definitely shifts towards blue after being on a while,
perhaps due to getting warmer. 
I took the second set of shots after about 4-5 mins - 
but I thought I could see the light gradually shifting in tint - 
so that probably means it happens within several seconds - 
perhaps even under 1 minute.

Remember this is a pre-production unit.

I am hoping to get hold of a production unit later on tonight.


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## Al Combs (Aug 22, 2008)

Perhaps it's a mismatch of the regulator to the LED in this pre-production light. Many LED's tend to turn blue when you overdrive them. I recently had occasion to real Cree's Reliability PDF. OK Golden Dragons aren't made by Cree. But I think it's fair to say LED's do have certain things in common.

Here is an excerpt from that document:
Another parametric failure common to white LEDs is a large and permanent shift in the exact color of white light output, called the white point or color point. A shift in white point may not be detectable in one LED by itself, but would be obvious in a side-by-side comparison of multiple LEDs... Typically, white high-power LEDs, created by combining blue LEDs with yellow (and sometimes red) phosphor, will shift towards blue over operational life. This shift can be accelerated by high temperatures and high drive currents. For example, a cool white (e.g., 6500K CCT) LED with a white point failure will typically appear light blue instead of white. In some high-power LEDs, this failure mode can occur after just 1,000 hours of operational life.​


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## jzmtl (Aug 23, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> I am hoping to get hold of a production unit later on tonight.



So did it show up?


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## UnknownVT (Aug 23, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> So did it show up?


 
Yes.....

but some sleep might be allowed?

Full production NDI on Max using Li-Ion 14500

vs. pre-production








at about ~ 7 mins later -







the pre-production GD+ has shifted to a more blue tint whereas the production unit has not.

(note the time - perhaps I don't need any sleep?  )

OK, I wasn't quite satisfied with that - charging up the Li-Ion 14500 - I tried to watch the production unit to see if I could see it shifting too..... but after about 2 minutes I thought why not make this a runtime too?

What I wouldn't do for CPF :huh:

~3 mins -







the pre-production unit has already shifted to blue - the production unit has not.

~27 mins







things still look OK

~ 1hr 15mins (~75mins)







Note: I used a less than full battery in the pre-production unit and had to change the battery at about ~70 mins

~ 1hr 18mins (~78mins)




the production unit had just flashed low battery and gone out at about ~78mins. (Battery used for the runtime - AW 750mAh Protected 14500)

The main point to note running the production unit for the full length of a fully charged Li-Ion 14500 showed that there was no noticable tint shift.


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## h2oflyer (Aug 23, 2008)

Is Nitecore changing emitters for a cost/supply reason?

I've got three cree lights
When I bought my NDI I went with the Silver - reasoning that with
serial #, lanyard,and "special edition" I might get a better LED.- got
warm white tint ! - Yeah I've got rings,but they fade away after 4ft
on a white wall - don't see them on low low.

I've got a Nitecore Extreme with SS bezel - It is real pocket thrower
and underated I think. I use it as a long distance light . WHAT RINGS ?
I'm sure I can find rings lurking on a 3 ft white wall, but I would be on 
low output and would probably miss them.

My Fenix TK10 has same cree emitter and no rings. HOW COME?
Is it placement of LED in large deep heavy OP reflector the answer
instead of brand of emitter? 

I'm new to the world of Hi Tech lights. I have the above three lights
and Seoul fired BitZ which is a floody and in a different league.

I don't want to grow up to be a white wall hunter!


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## Flashfirstask?later (Aug 23, 2008)

The production unit appears to be much better as I would most likely run it on a 14500 if I got one. Is it my imagination or does the last shot look like the pre-production hot spot suddenly got bigger?


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 23, 2008)

Thanks! I have been up for three days/nights waiting for your report. Please move faster next time as I need my sleep. :banned:

Well this is great news for many. And a relief for 7777 as well I`m sure. 

Before you hit the sack...at the risk of my life...I would like to make a request. Can you give us a pic of the production GDP against the Q5 powered by 1.5 volts? And maybe against the Q5 with 3 volts? Before you start run time tests?

If not...I understand...get some *more than well deserved *sleep :thumbsup:


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## CM (Aug 23, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> Yes.....
> 
> but some sleep might be allowed?
> 
> ...



Hate to be a pain but can you do a production unit comparison with the other lights? We all see there is improvement in tint but how does it compare to the non Golden Dragon lights?


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## UnknownVT (Aug 23, 2008)

Flashfirstask?later said:


> Is it my imagination or does the last shot look like the pre-production hot spot suddenly got bigger?


 
Yes, it is your way overactive imagination - 
I suppose you saw Pamela Anderson coming into my room too, huh? 
(I wish  )

The hot spot did get bigger because the exposure changed (my comparison beamshots are not fixed exposures) - 
when there were two beams in the shot the camera's evaluative exposure was for that brighter scene. 
When the production unit dropped out - there was roughly now half the amount of light and off-set to the side - so the camera evaluative exposure adjusted for that lower brightness scene - giving it slightly more than about twice the amount of exposure - 
hence the larger hot spot and basically brighter (single) beam - 
the shot was there merely to show the production unit was not giving out any more light and _NOT_ meant to be a comparison beamshot of any kind (compared to what?)




Badbeams3 said:


> Thanks! I have been up for three days/nights waiting for your report. Please move faster next time as I need my sleep. :banned:
> 
> Well this is great news for many. And a relief for 7777 as well I`m sure.
> 
> Before you hit the sack...at the risk of my life...I would like to make a request. Can you give us a pic of the production GDP against the Q5 powered by 1.5 volts? And maybe against the Q5 with 3 volts? Before you start run time tests?


 



CM said:


> Hate to be a pain but can you do a production unit comparison with the other lights? We all see there is improvement in tint but how does it compare to the non Golden Dragon lights?


 
Yeah you guys are such a "pain" in the butt   
- more comparsions _*are*_ coming - 
you really think I'm just going to leave it at that?
it takes time and a bit of work, no?.....

and I've now got to go tend to....

Pamela Anderson

who is now frantically banging on my door.....

... to be let out


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 23, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> and I've now got to go tend to....
> 
> Pamela Anderson
> 
> ...


 
:lolsign::thanks:


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## jzmtl (Aug 23, 2008)

Sweet, looking forward to comparison between production GDP and Q5.


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## UnknownVT (Aug 23, 2008)

Badbeams3 said:


> Can you give us a pic of the production GDP against the Q5 powered by 1.5 volts?


 


CM said:


> can you do a production unit comparison with the other lights? We all see there is improvement in tint but how does it compare to the non Golden Dragon lights?


 


jzmtl said:


> Sweet, looking forward to comparison between production GDP and Q5.


 
OK.... Production GD+ unit on NiMH

vs. Pre-Production sample -








these are very similar -
which means that all the beamshots on NiMH posted previously in Post #*20* should be the same/valid........

Trust me that much....?

I see......

vs. NiteCore Defender Infinity Q5 version -








vs. Fenix L1D-Q5 Turbo also NiMH








vs. JETbeam JET-1 MK IBS Max on NiMH








vs. Fenix L1D-RB100 both on NiMH and Max brightness -








vs. Fenix P3D-RB100 Rebel on primary CR123, both Max








These beamshots, as would be expected, are very similar to the beamshots of the pre-production GD+ unit also on NiMH posted previously in Post #*20*


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## Thujone (Aug 23, 2008)

Thank you for all the time you put into this. I am thinking I am going to be be happy with the D10. How do you feel about the production unit? Is it a keeper?


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## jzmtl (Aug 23, 2008)

So the color temp is indeed cooler than Q5, yet it suppose to have a higher color renditon. Pretty interesting, I'm looking forward to my EX10 GDP and see how it reflects on green plants.

Thanks for all the pictures!


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 23, 2008)

Thanks! It looks like the hotspot is x2 wider...with a weaker spill. My guess is the total output is pretty much the same. As claimed. Not sure which one I prefer...but I have the GDP on order so...love the one your with :kiss:

Now for a run time comparision...assuming you`ve let Ms. Anderson out


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## UnknownVT (Aug 23, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> So the color temp is indeed cooler than Q5, yet it suppose to have a higher color renditon. Pretty interesting, I'm looking forward to my EX10 GDP and see how it reflects on green plants.


 
CRI - Color rendering index - is mostly not well understood - 
CRI does _not_ say anything about the color temperature of the light source - 
eg: a yellow biassed light can actually have a CRI close to 100 (perfect)

Color rendering index at Wikipedia - 
" _Note that the CRI by itself does not indicate what the __color temperature__ of the reference light source is; therefore, it is customary to also cite the __correlated color temperature__ (CCT)_ " 

A really good example is incandescent lighting - which rates close to 100 (perfect) by definition - yet most people know that incands are yellow/orange biassed and weak in blues (upper/shorter wavelengths of the spectrum) - 
so practically incands are far from perfect for "color rendition" - but it rates close to 100 CRI.

We had a long discussion about this in thread - 
Puny LED flashlights (Not!) + COLOR RENDITION Comparison 
- a sort of summary in Post #*73*


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## jzmtl (Aug 23, 2008)

I never quite understood how CRI applies to real life, and don't really agree with it anyway. But I'll see how it looks when I get it, especially compare to my K2 TFFC which is almost incan color temperature.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 23, 2008)

Looking at an older review...run time at 100% Q5...71 minutes. GDP 78 minutes (both on 14500). Almost a 10% gain at full power....if I`m understanding it all right. :thinking:


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## jzmtl (Aug 23, 2008)

Which review?


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 23, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> Which review?


 

In post 33...the production DI GDP model shut down at 78 minutes (Bottom of post)


I compared the Q5 DI runtime found here
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/202436 ...71 minutes.


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## jzmtl (Aug 23, 2008)

Ah okay, I thought you were talking about a review where Q5 and GDP compared head to head.

But a difference of 7 minutes I'd discount that as differences between units. Look at the two D10 reviewed by selfbuilt, there are at least 7 minutes of difference in runtime.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 24, 2008)

7 minutes is common difference between two pieces and could be even bigger. Mine D10 Q5 has 99 minutes runtime with AW 14500 on max.




Tint on the production unit looks way better with 14500 but I'm little bit skeptical that there will be significant difference in color rendering in comparison to Q5.

Looks like smoother beam is the only one real advantage of the Golden dragon.


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## selfbuilt (Aug 24, 2008)

Good to see all the beamshot comparisons. :goodjob:, as always Vincent.

FYI, NiteCore will be sending me Golden Dragon Plus versions of the Smart PD lights, so I will do comparison output/runtimes to my exisiting Cree samples when they get here. Not sure of the timeframe - they haven't send them out yet, so my review won't be until at least a week or two.


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## UnknownVT (Aug 24, 2008)

selfbuilt said:


> FYI, NiteCore will be sending me Golden Dragon Plus versions of the Smart PD lights, so I will do comparison output/runtimes to my exisiting Cree samples when they get here. Not sure of the timeframe - they haven't send them out yet, so my review won't be until at least a week or two.


 
Thank you for the compliments - I am an admirer of your very comprehensive reviews.

I think the Smart PD GD+ versions are due sometime toward the end of this month 
- I, too, am looking forward to these, and your review(s).

I really like the smooth beams from the GD+ - but am less impressed with the cool leaning toward blue tints.

Of all the high efficiency/power emitters I have a preference for the LumiLEDs *Rebel 100* - 
smooth beam and mostly warmer tints - 
these were all things we used to pay a premium for.....
I think longer experience with higher efficiency/power LEDs of LumiLEDs shows -
seems a shame that there aren't that many quality lights using the Rebel 100 anymore.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 24, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> I think longer experience with higher efficiency/power LEDs of LumiLEDs shows -
> seems a shame that there aren't that many quality lights using the Rebel 100 anymore.



+1 I absolutely agree. Also I'm missing some nice SSC P4 lights. I've modded some luxeon lights with SSC P4 U2 and they are great. Also the SVO/SWO tint is pretty nice.


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## thefish (Aug 24, 2008)

Well this review has convinced me, I have an D10 GD+ on order, hopefully it will be my new EDC. Speaking of the Rebel 100 has anyone tried to mod an old QIII with a Rebel?


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## UnknownVT (Aug 24, 2008)

Standardized Stairway beamshot -


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## J.D. (Aug 25, 2008)

hm, can't help it...
the GD+ looks very cold to me, i would prefer the RB100 tint.
I know the tint has nothing to do with CRI but...
i would love to see how the GD+ perform outdoors - when it comes to green rendering  

by the way - thanks for all this work :thumbsup:


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## Glowman (Aug 25, 2008)

Just asked someone to buy me a D10 last 8/22 and just after he confirmed he bought it already; then comes the announcement of GDP in D10. I was in grief at first but, after further scrambling around for beamshots, I felt better and got contented with the Q5. I prefer a warmer tint or a hint of yellow if not pure white but, never purple and maybe blue??. Furthermore, a tint shift is a big no-no for me since it shows that there 'could be' reliability problems later on if pushed to its limits. Just makes me feel like it was an incandescent that could fail anytime soon.


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## LED-holic (Aug 25, 2008)

Thanks for the additional beam shots. It's really hard to tell a big difference. Small difference, yes, but I wonder how noticeable in real use it will be...


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## jzmtl (Aug 25, 2008)

Hmm, still look very blue. 

I'll have to reconsider it.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 25, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> Hmm, still look very blue.
> 
> I'll have to reconsider it.


 
I have one on order but am thinking about canceling it. Just doesn`t look that good to me either. To much blue...and weaker spill beam.


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## jzmtl (Aug 25, 2008)

I actually like the larger hotspot/weaker spill, but the blue is not.


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## 4sevens (Aug 25, 2008)

I just spoke to UnknownVT and it appears his camera picks up more on blue
and what is physically observed. It definitely emphasizes it.
When I powered it on, it did not appear as blue as his pictures show.
As others have mentioned CRI does not correlate with color temp.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 25, 2008)

jzmtl said:


> I actually like the larger hotspot/weaker spill, but the blue is not.


 
I like the larger hot spot too, but not at the expense of weaker spill. And yes...blue :thumbsdow Think I would rather have the Q5...nicer balance all things considered. But think I cancel and wait...see what else comes along.


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## UnknownVT (Aug 25, 2008)

Li-Ion 14500 comparison with other lights -

vs. NDI (Q5 version) -









vs. Fenix L1D-Q5 both Li-Ion 14500 and Max -








Looking at these Li-Ion 14500 powered shots and compared to the NiMH sets in Post #*41* (open another Window or tab then compare them side-by-side) - I think there is a slight shift toward blue when on 3.7V Li-Ion 14500 - it is not as large or obvious a shift as the pre-production - but it's just there.


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## mikel81 (Aug 25, 2008)

What a horrible looking beam. I'm glad the beam looks so blue, now I don't have to buy any new lights. :nana:


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## UnknownVT (Aug 25, 2008)

4sevens said:


> I just spoke to UnknownVT and it appears his camera picks up more on blue
> and what is physically observed. It definitely emphasizes it.


 
This is true - even with the pre-production version which looked horrendously blue on Li-Ion 14500 in the beamshots - did _NOT_ look as blue to my eyes.

The full production unit obviously is not as blue.

However overall the beam is cooler/bluer than just about all the lights I compared the Golden Dragon Plus to.
... and there is a very slight shift to blue even with the full production unit using Li-Ion 14500 when compared to NiMH - but to be fair one has to look for it to see it.... and at that level one is squinting due to the bright level


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## UnknownVT (Aug 26, 2008)

Comparisons on Minimum and NiMH

vs. pre-production NDI Golden Dragon Plus both NiMH - Minium -







about the same - but notice the pre-production beam seems less blue than the full-production unit - so the pre-production NDI GD+ seemed to shift more toward blue the brighter (harder driven?) it gets.

vs. NiteCore Defender Infinity (Cree Q5) -







hotspot is bigger and brighter on the GD+ - but the side-spill is a bit brighter on the Q5 version.

vs. JETbeam JET-1 MK IBS (Cree Q5) -







the NDI GD+ is a bit lower - but not by much.

vs. NiteCore D10 (Cree Q5) -







the NiteCore D10 manages to go quite a bit lower than the NDI series.

vs. Fenix L1D-RB100 (LumiLEDs Rebel 100 - L2D-RB100 head on L1D body) -







the Fenix D(igital) series do not go as low as any of these NiteCores. Similar smooth beams - but the Rebel 100's tint is just so much nicer to my eyes.


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## selfbuilt (Aug 26, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> but the Rebel 100's tint is just so much nicer to my eyes.


I tend to agree with this sentiment - my L2D RB100 head has one of the most pleasant and useful beams in my collection, IMO. Good idea to include it in the comparisons ... when my GDP Nitecore samples come in, I'll add it into the mix for my beamshots too.


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## jirik_cz (Aug 26, 2008)

Hehe, Rebel in cool white has CRI 70. And still many people like it more than Cree (CRI 75) or in this case GDP (CRI 80). Maybe the theoretical CRI is not as important as actual tint of the LED. Personaly I prefer warmer tints too.


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## BabyDoc (Aug 26, 2008)

4sevens said:


> I just spoke to UnknownVT and it appears his camera picks up more on blue
> and what is physically observed. It definitely emphasizes it.
> When I powered it on, it did not appear as blue as his pictures show.
> As others have mentioned CRI does not correlate with color temp.


 
I just received my NDI GD Plus. I have to agree that my beam does not appear blue at all. The hotspot is a creamy white. Unfortunately, however, there is a light yellow band that surrounds this hot spot, most noticable on the Turbo setting at distances under 8 feet. This band is relatively wide, about the same width as the diameter of the hot spot itself. Fortunately this band fuses seamlessly with the hotspot on its inside and the less bright cooler colored spill area on its outside. The transitions from hotspot, yellow band to the spill are smooth without dark ring interuptions. Not expecting this yellow band, it really bothered me when I first noticed it. In actual use, it really doesn't stand out. Except for white wall watching, I now can forget about it.

CRI improvement is difficult to see. I don't know what I should be expecting to see; going from a Q5's CRI of 75 to the GD's 80 would probably take a device more sensitive than my eye to see an improvement.


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## Paul6ppca (Aug 26, 2008)

Has anyone had a chance to take some outside,real world pics,grass ,fences,outdoor resin funiture?I think that would be a big help, as many are holding back till we see more,I know I am.

I love my D10,if this beam is as smooth as it looks Id love to stay with the same format and a new led. As long as it is not the angry blue tint.


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 26, 2008)

BabyDoc said:


> I just received my NDI GD Plus. I have to agree that my beam does not appear blue at all. The hotspot is a creamy white. Unfortunately, however, there is a light yellow band that surrounds this hot spot, most noticable on the Turbo setting at distances under 8 feet. This band is relatively wide, about the same width as the diameter of the hot spot itself. Fortunately this band fuses seamlessly with the hotspot on its inside and the less bright cooler colored spill area on its outside. The transitions from hotspot, yellow band to the spill are smooth without dark ring interuptions. Not expecting this yellow band, it really bothered me when I first noticed it. In actual use, it really doesn't stand out. Except for white wall watching, I now can forget about it.
> 
> CRI improvement is difficult to see. I don't know what I should be expecting to see; going from a Q5's CRI of 75 to the GD's 80 would probably take a device more sensitive than my eye to see an improvement.


 
Sounds real good to me. How is it you have one?


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## Thujone (Aug 26, 2008)

Badbeams2: The NDI was available immediately....


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## Badbeams3 (Aug 26, 2008)

Thujone said:


> Badbeams2: The NDI was available immediately....


 
Oh yea...thats right


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## thefish (Aug 26, 2008)

I just got word that my Nitecore D10 GD+ has shipped I hope it arrives soon, I will post beamshots when I get it.


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## BabyDoc (Aug 27, 2008)

Badbeams3 said:


> Sounds real good to me. How is it you have one?


 

Simple. I went onto 4SEVENS.COM and ordered it. The NDI is available now! The EX10 and D10 will be available shortly.


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## EntropyQ3 (Aug 27, 2008)

Could it be that the blueish tint of the Golden Dragon Plus is because the emitter blueshifts more than the Cree when driven by a high drive current? Its Vf vs. Iin shows a rather more rapid rise than the Crees, also hinting towards a stronger reaction to being driven hard.

Since the lower output is achieved using PWM, the blueish tint would be preserved at lower output, as opposed to lights where the levels are seperately regulated.

It would be very interesting to see the coloour of the GDP emitter when driven at 350mA - I have a feeling the emitter is a bit short changed by being driven at higher levels. Dropping the drive current would lower the maximum output, but would improve running times at all output levels, and I strongly suspect that the tint would be less blueshifted at all levels as well. Batteries would be happier as well of course - the excellent runtime plots published here show that NiMHs are gasping for breath at the current design point, so there would be substantial gains for both emitter and cell if the emitter was fed a bit less current.


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## BabyDoc (Aug 27, 2008)

Look at post #71. I have this light. The tint is NOT blue!!!!
I have no idea why the beam shots look blue, but again, the beam of my NDI GD PLUS does NOT look blue at any output level, whether I use Eneloops or 14500 cells. 

Hopefully, others will soon come forward and verify what I just said, either with the NDI or with D10 or Ex10 GDPLUS versions. 4Sevens began shipping the D10's and Ex10's yesterday.


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## jhanko (Aug 27, 2008)

The GDP EX10's are now in stock. Mine shipped today.:thumbsup:


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## Paul6ppca (Aug 27, 2008)

Paul6ppca said:


> Has anyone had a chance to take some outside,real world pics,grass ,fences,outdoor resin funiture?I think that would be a big help, as many are holding back till we see more,I know I am.
> 
> The proof is in the beamshot!


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## BabyDoc (Aug 28, 2008)

Paul6ppca said:


> Paul6ppca said:
> 
> 
> > The proof is in the beamshot!
> ...


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## thefish (Aug 28, 2008)

I just got mine today and can add a few notes to this thread; when using the D10 GD+ by itself the beam does appear white, but when I directly compare it against my old QIII (whitest/best beam I have ever seen in an LED) the D10 clearly has a purple tint in it. Later when it is darker I will try to get some beam shots. As for color rendering of objects in the house I can only say that the D10 makes colors very bright, almost like my Canon S2IS when its 'vivid' setting on.


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## UnknownVT (Aug 28, 2008)

Outdoors foliage -

Control daylight shot -




















These shots really only expose for the hotspot - which is what we tend to use outdoors - the Golden Dragon Plus do have the advantage of larger hotspots - but as for seeing colors - I think these all do as well as each other - since the side-spills are not involved - any blue tint is not revealed here.


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## Paul6ppca (Aug 29, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> Outdoors foliage -
> 
> Control daylight shot -
> 
> ...


 

Thanks, those really do look pretty nice! I think it shows more than just whie wall beamshots,thanks for all your work.


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## mchlwise (Aug 29, 2008)

UnknownVT said:


> Outdoors foliage -
> 
> Control daylight shot -
> 
> ...



Thanks for these, they are great!

They do primarily show the hot spot, but I got some very useful information from looking closely at the foliage in the spill. 

For example, looking at the branch above the paper (envelope?) and the brown leaf to the left and lower than the paper - I see a difference (albeit slight) between the Q5 and the GD+. To me, the GD+ seems to render the colors slightly better. 

That being said, looking out towards the edge of the photos, I can see the brighter spill of the Q5 compared to the GD+.

So for me, there still isn't a clear "winner". They both have their positives and negatives. :shrug:

How does throw compare between the Q5 and GD+? I'll probably have to get a GD+ just because it's new and nifty, but if any significant difference in throw, will probably make my mind up one way or the other.


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## UnknownVT (Aug 29, 2008)

Ad-Hoc Color Rendition Test - 
using Macbeth Color Rendition chart -

Daylight Control shot -


























The lighting from all the flashlights are uneven so the outer color patches are not well lit even though it was mainly the hotspot that illuminated the chart - so strictly speaking one should really look at the center patches - although the white borders also tell a story.

These are _NOT_ meant to be quantitative - so any measurements are probably misleading simply because of the uneven lighting.

One should really just look at the pictures and decide which looks the "best" compared to the daylight control shot (in daylight/sunlight at about 12:30pm today). I know which I'd choose - but YMMV.


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## frosty (Aug 30, 2008)

Nice pics. I think I'd go with the rebel, although it's a very personal choice. The differences between all of them are very small.


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## Ctrain (Oct 23, 2008)

I just recieved my NDI today! - Its suits my AA need perfect!
....Its a keeper!!!!


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## EngrPaul (Oct 23, 2008)

I'm glad I have a GDP D10. With a Cree, it might be just another light. This one has a unique and interesting beam, also a very interesting look. Thanks for offering these with GDP!


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## Ctrain (Oct 23, 2008)

The more I look at it the more I love it!


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