# Surefire warranty not what it seems?



## gotothelight (Apr 1, 2016)

Been using Surefire products for two decades. Have over a dozen of their flashlights. One of the reasons for purchasing Surefires has been their “no hassle” guarantee.

“SureFire warrants that if you—our customer—purchase one of our products, and we determine that it is defective in material and/or workmanship during your lifetime, we will repair or replace it—no hassle!”

No hassle? Not so much.

I purchased a new 6P a while back with the intention of using it to experiment with drop-in LED modules. I opened the heat sealed packaging last Saturday. The flashlight has little spots all over it - where the anodized finish is missing.

I called Surefire on Monday, and when I explained my problem, I was told that Surefire only warrants issues that "affect the function" of it's products.

After objecting, I was begrudgingly told to e-mail pictures. Their engineers would need to look at it and see if anything could be done.

So I sent in a few pictures, and also documented what I was told over the phone. I’m also well aware of Surefire’s reputation for not responding to e-mail.

I’ve got a Kroma with what appears to be a small stress crack in the lens, next to the bezel. My M3LT has a brownish substance (looks like someone smeared grease on it) forming on the inside of the lens. I can only imagine what it’s going to take to get these issues resolved.

Guess I need to call them back, and start out by asking if they still offer the “no hassle” guarantee. This sure isn’t turning out to be what I expected.


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## peter yetman (Apr 1, 2016)

Sadly, from what I read here and in other threads, SF is not the Company we knew and loved. Imagine being know for not replying to emails? And amazing that people accept it as a fact. What with this and the QC issues with their recent offerings, they seem to resting on the laurels that they acquired many years ago.
I bet they don't treat their military customers like this.
P


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## Woods Walker (Apr 1, 2016)

If you get around to buying a drop-in for your 6P E-mail malkoff. They will respond fast and are *known* for that.


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## seery (Apr 1, 2016)

Very sorry to hear. I used to be a huge SF fan as well. But after several issues with a few different lights, with no resolution, I threw in the towel. Sold all my SF lights and will not buy another.

Sadly the glory days of Surefire are long in the past.


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## Triburst1 (Apr 1, 2016)

I've experienced nothing but excellent service from Surefire. Just last month I called them because the button on a 13 year old E2e was worn out. I had a replacement tailcap in hand in 5 business days from across the country. No hassle, no fuss, no pictures required. 

I NEVER try to contact any company's customer service through email. Always, always, always call first.


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## wackyvegan (Apr 1, 2016)

I emailed them about the tailcap of my Surefire G2 Nitrolon, that causing issues when only pressing the button and not fully tightening it. It´s been 2 weeks and i never heard back from them


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 1, 2016)

Triburst1 said:


> I NEVER try to contact any company's customer service through email. Always, always, always call first.





wackyvegan said:


> I emailed them about the tailcap of my Surefire G2 Nitrolon, that causing issues when only pressing the button and not fully tightening it. It´s been 2 weeks and i never heard back from them



Seems like some good advise was offered up. 

Bill


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## bykfixer (Apr 1, 2016)

SureFire probably gets thousands of emails each day. Many many many many attempts at spam selling them cheap viagra, places to locate single russian chicks, free vacations, and cheap hotel rates...and who knows what else?

In the meantime there's probably 5 or 6 folks who among other things (such as deleting the 1800 nonsensical emails an hour) answer a telephone on their shift. 

Generally speaking talking to a live person is way more likely than getting an answered email from a company as large as SureFire.


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## seery (Apr 1, 2016)

bykfixer said:


> Generally speaking talking to a live person is way more likely than getting an answered email from a company as large as SureFire.



While I don't disagree, the company isn't nearly as large as most believe it to be.


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## bykfixer (Apr 1, 2016)

seery said:


> While I don't disagree, the company isn't nearly as large as most believe it to be.



I agree. SureFire isn't GM big, but I was speaking in terms of fame.

Too bad there aren't pix of the blemishes while nip.

Certainly a product gets out from time to time that isn't 100% up to snuff. But sheesh 'gotolight' you seem to get every one of them.


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## Bright_Light (Apr 1, 2016)

I just mailed Surfire a light for repair last Friday. They received it on Monday (3/28). I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Grizzman (Apr 1, 2016)

How long ago is, "a while back"? Did you buy it from a dealer, or individual?


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## Bullzeyebill (Apr 1, 2016)

Just some advise. Surefire threads have a tendency to go south pretty quickly. It would be good if members be mindful of CPF Rule 4, and be courteous to each other. No problems so far. :thumbsup:

Bill


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## bykfixer (Apr 1, 2016)

This thread caused me to pull out my SureFire ball cap and wear it on my cholesterol lowering jaunt... 
while lighting my way with a 1995 mini mag. lol

Why? 
Got me, it just seemed like the thing to do.


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## gotothelight (Apr 1, 2016)

Grizzman said:


> How long ago is, "a while back"? Did you buy it from a dealer, or individual?



I bought it a couple of years ago, give or take. Still plenty of years left in my lifetime, so the warranty should be good to go. I have the packaging as well. Bought it from an authorized dealer, and it's lived it's life inside of a sealed package inside of a humidity controlled gun safe.


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## gotothelight (Apr 1, 2016)

Here's pics of what looks like the beginning of a little stress crack on my Kroma lens, and the brown crud inside my M3LT lens (it didn't always look like that).


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## Str8stroke (Apr 1, 2016)

I guess I would say, that is more of a wear & tear type claim you have. 

They are probably kinda like thinking, if you ordered a new light from them and stored it inside your running rock tumbler for a few weeks. Then you opened it and were mad cause it had missing ano and expected that to be covered by their warranty. 

Speaking from experience using their warranty, it has been very easy. Most were direct replacements, no questions asked. Assuming that product is still in production. 

Anyways, good luck with it. I hope my post didn't sound negative or condescending in anyway. :twothumbs


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## Skeeterg (Apr 1, 2016)

I believe their lifetime warranty would apply to mechanical not wear and tear. Correct?


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## gotothelight (Apr 1, 2016)

Str8stroke said:


> I guess I would say, that is more of a wear & tear type claim you have.
> 
> They are probably kinda like thinking, if you ordered a new light from them and stored it inside your running rock tumbler for a few weeks. Then you opened it and were mad cause it had missing ano and expected that to be covered by their warranty.
> 
> ...



I'm sure people try all kinds of scams to get things fixed. IRT the 6P, I've got the original packaging and they could verify the battery dates and voltages, condition of the threads, pull apart the switch to check for wear, etc to see that it's not been used. Not a mark on it anywhere, except the missing anodizing. Did a little research on that. Supposedly white spots are caused by many factors in the anodizing process, but they're very common when something goes wrong. Surefire should well know this with as many units as they manufacture.


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## gotothelight (Apr 1, 2016)

Skeeterg said:


> I believe their lifetime warranty would apply to mechanical not wear and tear. Correct?



I would say incorrect. Something that has never been used or removed from an airtight, sealed package obviously has no wear or tear. The warranty does cover material and workmanship. If it's supposed to have an anodized coating, those spots would be considered to be a material defect.

I also have the packaging, so they can't claim that it was submerged in a lake or something.


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## archimedes (Apr 2, 2016)

I've seen lots of these threads.

I've also used SureFire customer service (warranty service) on multiple occasions myself.

They are very clear that warranty work is for *functional* not *cosmetic* issues.

Missing anodizing is a cosmetic issue. Frankly, that photo looks like "wear and tear" ... whether it truly is or not, I would think they would consider that irrelevant.

Brand new SureFire lights often have massive anodize color mismatch. Not a functional issue.

Cracked lens or "fogging" , might depend on whether or not they think the structural integrity and/or central beam is significantly compromised.

A discontinued rare vintage "collectible" sent in for warranty work, might get replaced by a new and entirely different flashlight altogether ... functionally similar, yes, but completely different.

Some cases might require a judgment call, and your outcome might vary depending on your demeanor, as people are human.

SureFire consider these "tools" designed for hard use, whether you agree or not. And black sharpie will fix the glare reflecting off the bright spots


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## gotothelight (Apr 2, 2016)

archimedes said:


> I've seen lots of these threads.
> 
> I've also used SureFire customer service (warranty service) on multiple occasions myself.
> 
> ...



The full text of the Surefire warranty can be found here. This pretty much matches the printed version that was provided with my flashlight.

http://www.surefire.com/warranty

Feel free to point out where they are very clear that warranty work is for *functional* not *cosmetic* issues. Not that it has any bearing on the issue at hand.

Anodizing has a functional purpose besides looking pretty. If it’s missing, so is that functionality. I don’t really care about color or uniformity. If remnants of a corrosive bath leached out of the aluminum pores and damaged the finish, that would be a manufacturing defect.

I’ve used many tools made of knurled anodized aluminum (specifically pin insertion/extraction tools for MIL connectors). Identical material. After years of heavy use, the anodized coating does show wear. But it doesn’t show up as little missing spots. The finish is still present in the valleys of the knurling, even when there’s significant wear to the rest of the tool. I highly doubt that anyone with real world experience would reach the conclusion that missing spots of anodized finish on an otherwise new tool were somehow caused by wear and tear.

I haven’t addressed the remaining issues with Surefire yet, but I also doubt most rationally thinking individuals would expect an answer like “But the beam is still good in the middle!” or “That’s not a bad crack.”

Pretty much all of your reasoning for why Surefire wouldn’t want to address these issues falls squarely under “hassle”. That would consist of trying to weasel out of their obligations covered by the seemingly ironclad promises they’ve made in their warranty.

I believe Surefire is a better company than that. But I also believe that they probably deal with so many something-for-nothing dirtbags with a self-inflicted boo-boo on their flashlight that convincing them you have a legitimate issue has become a challenge.


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## archimedes (Apr 2, 2016)

You win. Good luck with your light. Let us all know how it turns out for you.


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## Grizzman (Apr 2, 2016)

I'll go ahead and say it.....

Had you properly inspected the light when you bought it, the dealer likely could have resolved the problem for you.


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## archimedes (Apr 2, 2016)

gotothelight said:


> ....
> Feel free to point out where they are very clear that warranty work is for *functional* not *cosmetic* issues.....



I'm surprised they didn't mention that to you when you called for an RMA. Every time I've called to speak with them about warranty work, that's been one of the first things that has been discussed. And typically noted in every SureFire warranty thread I've read on here.

Not defending that policy, necessarily, just pointing it out for your information, to help you understand their response to you.



gotothelight said:


> ....
> Pretty much all of your reasoning for why Surefire wouldn’t want to address these issues falls squarely under “hassle” ....



I'd also like to be clear that I'm not disputing or defending the "hassle" factor. If a company makes a broad and generous, but ultimately somewhat vague and subjective promise, in LARGE BOLD RED CAPS ... and then has the details and exclusions in the _fine print _... somebody, somewhere, sometime is gonna be unhappy.

I was just trying to help explain the situation to you, not defend either side.

Cheers


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## swampgator (Apr 2, 2016)

Maybe I'm different. All my lights are users. No shelf or safe queens. 
But to me, issues with anodizing don't effect the way I use the light. If it were an issue with the circuitry in an LED sure. 
Bulbs blow, batteries dies, switches wear out. I'd never expect a company to replaced expendable parts. 

YMMV


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## blanex1 (Apr 2, 2016)

sad to hear this! i own a bunch of surefire's over the last 20 years and never had any problems with any of of my lights!so i never had to contact them via e-mail or phone,from what i have read,most people are happy with there customer service! i do wonder why we don't hear from them hear on the forum!as it would be nice two hear there 2 cent's on the matter.oo:


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## fresh eddie fresh (Apr 5, 2016)

swampgator said:


> Maybe I'm different. All my lights are users. No shelf or safe queens.
> But to me, issues with anodizing don't effect the way I use the light. If it were an issue with the circuitry in an LED sure.
> Bulbs blow, batteries dies, switches wear out. I'd never expect a company to replaced expendable parts.
> 
> YMMV



I am the exact same way, every light gets used at some point or other. A 6P is such a workhorse light I could not imagine looking at one under a microscope... but Surefire is so polarizing, people either seem to love them, or love to hate them.


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## gotothelight (Apr 7, 2016)

I’m not out to trash Surefire. I take care of my gear. When I cut something out of a sealed package, I sure don’t expect it to be in worse condition than something I’ve been using for years. I’ve never felt the need to scrutinize a Surefire product for defects at the time of purchase, as quite frankly, there haven’t been any.

Will revisit with Surefire after 2 weeks have gone by. That ought to be enough time to receive a reply, if they really intend to do so.

Been a decent customer, so hope I get a response.


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## bykfixer (Apr 7, 2016)

^^ Perhaps include that photo in an email. 

Nice collection there. I like that backup.


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## ven (Apr 8, 2016)

I have a simple take on this, if i buy something new, be it $10 or $100...........i want it to look new, be it for beater or best uses...........

Thats my take on any brand or i feel i have got a used item(be it a light or anything for that matter!)


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## Bright_Light (Apr 20, 2016)

Surefire made good on my flashlight repair and I received it back today (4/20). They received it on 3/28. So just a little over a three week turnaround.

This was my first RMA I ever did with Surefire and I would have to say it was a positive experience.


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## KuduKing (Dec 23, 2016)

I'm a little late to the party, but I agree Surefire is far from what it once was. However, the koolaid still seems strong.

About 30 years ago, I bought the first Laser Products "Surefire 6P" to hit the market. Of course it was a revolution in personal lights. My Maglite that I used in LE work seemed ridiculous. I bought another 6P a few months later as a backup. The light seemed bomb-proof and was cutting-edge. I still have both original lights and the packaging. To this day, with the LED upgrade once offered, they are still the lights I have in my bedroom. The finish is very worn on one of them, but they both work flawlessly.

I was hooked on Surefire, and as the technology evolved, from smaller lights to LED, I kept buying their lights. They obviously got huge in certain markets and noticed the company acquiring an inflated ego, to go along with their increasingly inflated pricing. 

About 10 or so years ago, the tailcap switch failed on an E2 light that was only about a year old. I was told they had a small run of bad switches, and Surefire replaced it promptly. A year or so later, the same thing happened to an E1 light. This time the warranty experience was quite different - I was on the phone for close to 20 minutes, asked all kinds of questions on how this happened, lectured on how to install batteries, and told I had to produce the receipt, and generally got the feeling I was talking with an insurance company doing everything possible to deny my claim. Very off-putting. After much hassle, I had to send in the light for inspection on my dime. Surefire replaced the tailcap... but the finish was a complete mismatch. A few months later, an L-series light stopped working and I was again given the same run-around. 

Along with ridiculous increase in prices, what seemed to be less-than state-of-the-art features, and their poor customer service treatment, I soured on the brand. I looked around and found that other companies - Streamlight and Pelican mostly - were making lights with comparable features, better pricing, hassle-free warranties, and more-than-decent durabilty.

Apparently not much has changed at Surefire in 10 years.

I bring this up because of a recent experience with another company, to contrast how it treats its ultimate consumers. Years ago when I felt Surefire started losing it's way, I bought an early-gen LED Pelican 2360. Two-AA, 95 lumens, 2 hour run time. Obviously no longer state of the art. But it was well made and since then it has seen hard use, and was dinged up pretty well. The tailcap failed a few weeks ago and I figured 6-8 years of use was pretty good. I was going to toss it when I read that Pelican has a lifetime warranty. This is how Pelican handled it:

I sent an email. Pelican responded the next day, with an RMA. Packed with the requested check for $5 to handle shipping, I sent it cheapest way USPS. I figured they would replace the tailcap and for $5 I would have an extra light around the house. Today I received a box UPS I didn't recognize. Inside was a brand-new latest gen Pelican 2360 - 375 lumen 2-1/2 hour top end, strobe, and 29 lumen 13 hour low mode.

Note that I didn't have to waste time on the phone, be grilled and lectured on how to use a flashlight, nor told that cosmetic defects were on me. I provided no receipt, nor was one demanded. I sent an email to large company, and it was answered promptly. I paid a small shipping fee, and was sent not a minimally-repaired light, but a brand new replacement that was far more capable than the dinged up much-used one I returned.

How Pelican handled this is what customer service is all about. I have received similar treatment from Streamlight. They take care of their customers without hassle. You would think Surefire could do the same.


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## Bullzeyebill (Dec 23, 2016)

This thread is about Surefire warranties and not about comparing other brand warranties to Surefire's.

Bill


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## dudemar (Dec 27, 2016)

As much as I don't like Surefire, their warranty in the past has been good. They replaced all the parts in question that was needed on my A2 no problem. Judging by the comments things have become hit or miss.


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## LarryB (Dec 27, 2016)

Two weeks ago my L4, which I've had what seems like at least ten years, quit working. I called Surefire and the customer service person asked if I'd done the paperclip test. I told him I wasn't aware of it and he asked me to remove the tail cap and short the battery to the frame. The light worked perfectly. It took him a minute to find the out of production tail cap number, but he found it and I had it in under a week. No hassle, no pictures, no required receipt (which at this point would have been hardly possible). It felt like the service I'd expect from them, compared to what I've had from some other manufacturers.


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