# TSHTF light kit



## etc (Jul 31, 2010)

This is meant for some serious TSHTF time, as in when the grid goes down with no sign of coming back up. 









The contents: Malkoff M60LL in a FiveMega 3xAA body, with AA Lithiums.
Gerber Infinity Ultra, with 1xAA Lithium so it won't melt in the heat. If you have to share a lite, it's a good choice.

12 123 cells 
16 Energizer Lithiums AA cells
12 Alkalines 
4 Eneloops 

The AA and 123 pouches can be worn on the belt. 
The 123 cells are for my EDC. My GPS uses AA cells.


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## fisk-king (Jul 31, 2010)

nice setup


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## Burgess (Jul 31, 2010)

I like the Duracell Alkalines in those nice little boxes.

:thumbsup:


One suggestion . . . .

i would put them in a Zip-Lock bag (or two),
just in case one of 'em starts to Leak.

This would contain the problem, without spreading "gunk" all over.


Good Luck, and thanks for starting this thread !

lovecpf
_


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## etc (Jul 31, 2010)

.......


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## Linger (Aug 1, 2010)

A Quark (ranges moonlight to turbo) with AA and 16340 bodies would be great.


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## Monocrom (Aug 1, 2010)

Hold onto that kit. Hopefully, you'll never need to use it. If you do, you'll be glad you kept it.


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## etc (Aug 1, 2010)

updated pics


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## jacktheclipper (Aug 1, 2010)

Seems like a lot of gear for just illumination...


I guess you're exspecting a lot of S to HTF


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## sappyg (Aug 1, 2010)

nice... you need one more for back up


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## etc (Aug 1, 2010)

You think? My primary is Surefire 6P clone with Malkoff M60L which has a 4-hour runtime. I have enough cells for 24-hour non-stop light just in that alone. This doesn't even include the moon mode.

The backup to that is FiveMega 3xAA with Malkoff M60LL which can run for days on 3xAA Alkalines, even at reduced lumens. With 3xAA Lithiums, you should get almost a day. I chose it for runtime and also due to the fact you can get AA cells anywhere. It runs very nice on any AA chemistry, including even junk "heavy duty" Carbon-Zinc cells. 

The backup to all that is that Gerber Infinity, which should generate 20+ hours on Lithium (shorter than Alk but brighter) I can run it continuously for weeks.

I thought about putting Surefire 9P in it instead of FM 3xAA. 9P can take either 3x123 or 2xAA which is also really flexible and works nicely with M60LL. (Or one of these new M61LL modules)

If that doesn't solve the problem in a TSHTF situation, nothing will. You will probably run out of food / water / gas/ etc. long before you run out of lumens.


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## sappyg (Aug 1, 2010)

etc said:


> You think?
> If that doesn't solve the problem in a TSHTF situation, nothing will. You will probably run out of food / water / gas/ etc. long before you run out of lumens.


 
LOL.... i was just kiding.


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## Cesiumsponge (Aug 1, 2010)

Man, that's heavy! That kit is fantastic when the power goes out but if you're doing the bugout/SHTF/TEOWAWKI thing, you probably want to streamline to one battery type and lighten up. It's very easy to have backups for backups for backups on emergency gear and end up with too much stuff to effectively haul around. I mean...you're going to have a fairly sizable backpack or duffel bag with all your other support and survival gear so having another hard case with lighting solutions to carry is going to be a big hindrance unless you're planning on staying stationary. 

On my bugout bag, I kept it simple. It started out over 50lbs of gear because I wanted comfortable quantities of backup gear...utility knife, fighting knife, pocket knife, backup pocket knife, two leathermans, shovel, x change of clothes, y quantity of medical supplies, two water purification systems, etc. I've managed to shave my pack weight to 25-30lbs by adopting the "ultralight" mentality used by ultralight hikers, and about 5lbs of that pack weight is a solid week of rations/food. I'm still tinkering to tweak pack weight.

Since I'm fairly new at a lot of this flashlight stuff, I don't have anything top shelf, but I currently pack a Fenix LD20+ which isn't the best/greatest at anything, but its got low, medium, high, SOS, and turbo plus strobe, advertised for 71 hours at the lowest 9 lumen setting and just 2xAA. I have a Maratac single AA as a backup which I'll eventually replace with something that has a longer runtime. I run lithium AA's for weight savings (don't poo poo an ounce or two. It all adds up) and they'll work for sure when I need them/ I carry Eneloops and a Powerfilm 2xAA+USB solar charger. 

The powerfilm solar charger folds up to the size of a wallet and its very light. You can lash it on your bag during the day and charge stuff while you're on the move. The USB charger port is good for many electronics like cell phones, GPS (assuming those still work), or morale items like ipods. You can run USB stuff off solar in the day or leave the AAs in the charger and run USB off batteries at night. A small scanner, emergency radio, and an ACR MS-2000 strobe I pack also run off 2xAA's so this will keep me going for a while. Like you mentioned, AA's of all sorts will be the easiest thing to buy/bargain/beg for in an emergency but a recharging solution is self-contained. Since some of your lights use 3xAA, Powerfilm also makes a 4xAA charger without the USB. 

Here are the products in question:
http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/military-products/military-usb-aa.php
http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/military-products/military-aa-solar-charger.php


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## etc (Aug 1, 2010)

sappyg said:


> LOL.... i was just kiding.



I figured so. Hey, this is not even mildly radical compared to some things I have seen on the forums.


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## carrot (Aug 1, 2010)

When the SHTF you won't know who I am because I'll be the only flashaholic using a candle lantern or a Photon Freedom on minimum. Why draw attention to yourself when other (desperate) people may want your stuff, badly?


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## etc (Aug 1, 2010)

I hear you RE: simplify battery types

I thought about doing it all on just AA, problem is, I really like 6P size and the 6V it delivers. There is really nothing equivalent to that in the AA world. Secondly, I usually run 18650 cell in it and having also extensively run AA NiMH, I think I like 18650 better. They deliver awesome power and are more or less interchangeable with 123s (ie. my 4x123 lite also takes 2x18650)
But I hear you loud and clear - it does tend to get complicated.
Perhaps we shall see a new Malkoff module such as M31LL which would be a good candidate for a 2xAA lite.

Ignore the hard case - it's for storage only, not really for transportation. In an emergency, the two pouches go on the belt. I also have a smaller pouch for only 6x123 cells and that too goes everywhere with me.

I have a few essential devices that run on AA: Garmin GPS, Uniden scanner and a radio. The GPS will run for a day on a set of Lithiums.

Basically, if I run out of 123 cells, I still have an AA based lite that should work. But if you are worried about that, as I said above, Surefire 9P with a low-powered module will run on almost anything: 3x123 or 2xAA.

To be perfectly honest, I have never been in a situation where I needed more runtime. I never needed one of these lites with crazy 100-hour runtime and 3 lumens. I did often wish I had more lumens even with lesser runtime.


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## etc (Aug 1, 2010)

carrot said:


> When the SHTF you won't know who I am because I'll be the only flashaholic using a candle lantern or a Photon Freedom on minimum. Why draw attention to yourself when other (desperate) people may want your stuff, badly?




Why do you think I keep Infinity Ultra in there....? Same line of thinking. I even thought about putting a red Ultra in there. You can perhaps navigate a trail or read a map without attracting attention.


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## Monocrom (Aug 1, 2010)

Having more than one option for cells is probably a better idea. Nothing wrong with both AA and CR123 together in one bag.


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## TMedina (Aug 2, 2010)

Monocrom said:


> Having more than one option for cells is probably a better idea. Nothing wrong with both AA and CR123 together in one bag.



This. You can produce lumens with access to two of the most common battery types around.

I'd throw in a Fenix E01 just for giggles and a wand of some sort for a lantern effect - I've been meaning to pick up a traffic wand from overready.com.

-Trevor


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## Cesiumsponge (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't think CR123 qualifies as one of "the most common battery types around". Maybe for flashlight folks but there is a particular bias there. If you're scrounging a retail store like a hardware or grocery store for emergency supplies, AA is still king, followed probably by AAA, then C as far as quantity stocked on hand. I've seen CR123s sold at "battery centers" at most retail stores, but usually in a two pack for $10+ by Duracell or Energizer and they only have one hanger of them. Sometimes you'll find them in the photo department. The only place I've seen CR123's plentiful in brick & mortar stores are some higher end sporting goods stores that might have a Surefire display and carry the 12 pack Surefire box or gun stores. One positive thing about this is if it's an emergency rush, most folks are going to clear out the AA, AAA's, etc. Since the vast majority of CR123 consumption is for devices like digital cameras, I don't think most people in emergencies are going to go out and shop for digital camera batteries. Then again, the point of emergency preparedness is having stuff on hand before trouble. A great shopping list in an emergency isn't worth it's weight in gold. 

The biggest downside is one you burn through those cells, the light is dead weight. That's just my opinion though on emergency preparation. There are lots of different angles you can come from.


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## etc (Aug 2, 2010)

Interesting points you make.
Resupplying via stores is not a part of the plan.. I already have all I will ever need.


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## fizzwinkus (Aug 2, 2010)

another thing to think about is if stores are being raided, the aa/aaa types will be the first to disappear. a more rare cell like cr123 won't draw nearly as much attention.

[nevermind above, just just caught cesium's reply]

my bob only has a single saint minimus for long runtimes off a single cell. still need to get a surefire spares carrier.


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## etc (Aug 2, 2010)

It's not that the stores might or might not have it, but what happens if the grid goes down - in that case, you couldn't buy anything. And even if you could, you probably couldn't get to it if the stoplights are out, streets jammed. And if you do get there, they will probably be looted clean of everything and anything. Take a look at pre-hurricane store pictures - empty shelves. Don't rely on the grid in any way.

Another option is to take the M60LL module and stick it into my EDC, which is Surefire 6P. Then I have crazy long runtime. Once CR123A cells are gone (Not likely), I can put it in the 3xAA body and then get even more crazy runtime.

Another idea is, I will include a few high-capacity 18650 cells, unprotected. You get 18 hours per cell with M60LL. I like them a lot more than NiMH cells as they don't self-discharge.


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## John_Galt (Aug 2, 2010)

Nice kit.

I too second the comment about a low profile. I keep a mini-mag LED on hand for that very reason. And a Photon.

The Ra, Fenix and Quark will only be used in private, and be used minimally.


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## cottonpickers (Aug 2, 2010)

Nice Kit. VERY Nice!!

I think there's something about having it all in a single case,with all supplies ready to go that is particularly appealing. Anyone can have the lights and batteries, but its all together in one place it takes on a different purpose.

Its the sort of thing that you could pick up quickly in any situation - doesn't need to be a SHTF scenario - I could see you might pick that up if you went potholing, camping or in a hurry somewhere and you grab it before you leave the house. I love that it will *always* be more light than you will need - no matter what the situation :devil:

Of course, my solution is *bound* to be small and solar - I need a little less S in my situation ;-) or I need the S to last a very long time!!

Here it is wrapped up, and ready to be clipped on a backpack: 






And inside is an ITP A3 cut down to fit a 10280 cell (courtesy of ma sha's instructions.) along with an 80ma solar panel/charger.






Anyway, I think it gives the opposite end of the spectrum -although on turbo is still amazing bright. 

Have you thought of expanding the case to include anything else? (lighter / laser / compass etc) You could turn in to quite a nice gadget case.
http://a.imageshack.us/img714/7560/img0986n.jpg


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## etc (Aug 2, 2010)

Interesting. But what happens if you are stuck inside? Not much use for the solar charger.

But it is an interesting addition.


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## Ronin28 (Aug 2, 2010)

Very cool kit. 

With regards to batteries in a TSHTF scenario, I keep a large quantity of several types, i.e., Alkaline AAA, AA, C, D, 9V (I know Alks are generally frowned upon here but they are better than nothing.), 123's, NiMH AAA, AA (Eneloops), and that's about it. In a worse case scenario where the Grid is down for a long period of time (month or more) I have enough batteries to last for probably 3 months or more (for Flashlights, batt. powered radio, etc.). 

The bigger concern would be food, water, protection, etc., but I have that covered also. My philosophy: Be prepared for anything. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.


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## etc (Aug 2, 2010)

I also keep one of those new 2D Mags in the trunk, with a few Alkaline D cells (stored not installed). I don't intend it for myself but to either trade, sell or just give away in a "situation". Then, it could be invaluable.

I don't really plan to use it myself, don't rely on it, thus it's not a part of the kit. Nice lite in theory but with 6P sized lites generating 200 lumens not much need for it. Still, good price and value.


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## Larbo (Aug 2, 2010)

carrot said:


> Why draw attention to yourself when other (desperate) people may want your stuff, badly?



Thats what the 12 gauge autoloader is for.


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## red02 (Aug 2, 2010)

Using L91s in the GUI is probably a waste. All mine gets is AAs that are ready to leak from overuse...

Have you thought about getting a resistored switch to preserve those CR123s a little longer?


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## Cesiumsponge (Aug 2, 2010)

I don't know how important keeping a "low profile" is as far as selecting generic flashlights that might under-perform. Problem is if you're situationally aware, you aren't shining lights around crowds of desperate folks. Folks in a tight spot know you have something they don't otherwise, regardless of what light you have. They'd have to be within 5-10 feet of you anyhow to identify what kind of light you're carrying, which is already a tactically critical mistake. And I doubt people will be "oh, its just a minimag" and leave you alone whereas the same person will go "oh, its a ti gatlight, I'm going to jump this mofo!" 



etc said:


> Interesting. But what happens if you are stuck inside? Not much use for the solar charger.
> But it is an interesting addition.



If you're inside, that implies there is an outside  I'm sure you can covertly put a solar charger next to the window if you're holing up. If your windows are boarded up, you can probably set something outside during the daylight on the patio or roof or some other area. The pocket ones out there are too small to be identified as solar chargers unless you know what they are and get much closer to verify it.


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## red02 (Aug 2, 2010)

I also think a bright white-blue LED beam will draw a crowd faster than a dim incan light. I wanted to get a Quark WW for this purpose, but...


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## Monocrom (Aug 2, 2010)

For dealing with crowds, a cheap coin-cell light is best. Something like the Lighthound squeeze lights that are .99 cents each. Turn off your main light, flick on the lighthound model to the "on" position, then toss that towards the crowd. Let them fight over it like wild animals if that's their choice.


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## etc (Aug 2, 2010)

* Using L91s in the GUI is probably a waste. All mine gets is AAs that are ready to leak from overuse...
*

Maybe. It's obviously brighter on Lithium. The runtime is less than with Alk. The second issue is that when keeping it in the car, it's risking getting ruined from leaking battery. I suppose I could solve that by not storing the battery inside. Thirdly, an alkaline will not work in freezing weather. 

Infinity: No digital stuff and impossible to break. Nice lite and well worth 10 tokens. Although to be honest I wouldn't pay a dime over that amount. 
Now if you want a discreet lite, red Infinity Ultra is the way to go. That thing is dim and will preserve your night vision. 



* Have you thought about getting a resistored switch to preserve those CR123s a little longer?*

Yeah... thought about it. My main concern is reliability. Surefire twisty is bulletproof, but once you add "features" they might reduce reliability. 

With this setup I have, it gives you hundreds of hours of runtime. If that's not enough, maybe time to reassess the tactics involved. Maybe runtime is not the problem.


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## red02 (Aug 2, 2010)

How exactly can the switch break? If its dropped enough to kill it, it will die anyway. The worst that can happen with a resistor 2 stage switch is that the resistor falls off. Even then your back at what you have now. 

Besides, you don't have to mess with the Surefire twisty. Just mod a mcclicky and replace the switch meat inside the Z44 or whatever No. switch is.


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## etc (Aug 2, 2010)

But it's solving a problem that doesn't exist - the lumen level is quite nice the way it is. 

The 6P clone generates 140 lumens, the 3xAA FiveMega should be around 40-80 lumens depending on where you are in the runtime and what cells you use.

I really wouldn't want any less (fewer) lumens and if I did, I would just take Infinity.


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## red02 (Aug 2, 2010)

Perhaps, but I would argue that anytime you -need- artificial light batteries will be hard to come by, and 140lm will burn through batteries faster than 20 or 10lm. 

I am just as happy with a photon freedom on hunting and camping trips, less is sometimes more.


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## etc (Aug 3, 2010)

10 years ago I would have considered 10-20 lumens adequate but today the norm for me is 120 lumens. Especially given how you can have relatively long runtime compared with a few years ago.
Nice runtime and quite adequate in any situation.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 3, 2010)

etc said:


> This is meant for some serious TSHTF time, as in when the grid goes down with no sign of coming back up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have to wonder why have the 12 Alkalines? I would rather go with 12 more Lithium AA cells for their superior capacity & shelf life or 8 more Lithiums & 4 more Eneloops. Maybe it's just my anti-alkaline prejudice showing.

Anyway I like the idea - it is good to be prepared. I would have at least 3 lights with a very low low mode in my kit - something that can run on one AA lithium for many many nights of normal use. Of course there should be the option to bump up to a brighter setting for when you need the extra visibility. The good thing about low mode is that it doesn't stand out to other people, they probably wont even see the glow unless they are very close to you. It is also less tempting to thieves, they will assume your dull little light is just about out of power and is useless.


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## fizzwinkus (Aug 3, 2010)

etc said:


> It's not that the stores might or might not have it, but what happens if the grid goes down - in that case, you couldn't buy anything. And even if you could, you probably couldn't get to it if the stoplights are out, streets jammed. And if you do get there, they will probably be looted clean of everything and anything. Take a look at pre-hurricane store pictures - empty shelves. Don't rely on the grid in any way.



If you're not expecting the grid to come back up, all that's left are solar powered lights and backup solar powered lights.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 3, 2010)

fizzwinkus said:


> If you're not expecting the grid to come back up, all that's left are solar powered lights and backup solar powered lights.



Kinda - but when there is enough light to power solar cells then you don't need the flash light, when it is dark there is no solar power available. The only way solar powered lights are useful is if they have some sort of rechargeable batteries. But over the years the batteries decay and become useless. Depending on how many you have and how sparingly you use them it might work out better to have Lithium AA cells. But eventually you will have nothing that will work.

This all depends of whether you are talking weeks, months, years, decades or never ever.


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## fizzwinkus (Aug 3, 2010)

Somehow, I don't think there are many solar powered lights being sold without batteries. In any case, without a grid to come back to I'd rather have a couple orange joos and a whole setup that chances are will never be used. I think at the end of the day I think most of us are expecting the grid to return.


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## red02 (Aug 4, 2010)

KiwiMark said:


> Kinda - but when there is enough light to power solar cells then you don't need the flash light, when it is dark there is no solar power available. The only way solar powered lights are useful is if they have some sort of rechargeable batteries. But over the years the batteries decay and become useless. Depending on how many you have and how sparingly you use them it might work out better to have Lithium AA cells. But eventually you will have nothing that will work.
> 
> This all depends of whether you are talking weeks, months, years, decades or never ever.



Say you have 10x Eneloops good for 1000 recharges. Thats the equivalent of 10,000 batteries. And for the sake of argument you're running a Quark AA on 4lm rated at 2 days. That works out to 54 years of light... but your not using the light for 12hrs when the sun's out, right? so thats 108 yrs.

very rough numbers I know, but it serves to make the point.


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## Monocrom (Aug 4, 2010)

fizzwinkus said:


> If you're not expecting the grid to come back up, all that's left are solar powered lights and backup solar powered lights.


 
There's also the option of a solar powered charger for your AA rechargeable cells.


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## KiwiMark (Aug 4, 2010)

red02 said:


> so thats 108 yrs.



I'm not too sure that a 108 year old Eneloop would be any good, even if never used. From what I have read NiMH cells have a shelf life somewhere around 3 to 5 years. The AA Lithium cells have a shelf life of around 15 years. I suspect a 15 year old NiMH cell will be barely usable for anything and will not hold a reasonable charge.


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## etc (Aug 4, 2010)

KiwiMark said:


> I have to wonder why have the 12 Alkalines? I would rather go with 12 more Lithium AA cells for their superior capacity & shelf life or 8 more Lithiums & 4 more Eneloops. Maybe it's just my anti-alkaline prejudice showing.
> .



I have so many Alkalines laying around for years which are not getting used that I figured I am more likely to use them if I put them in there. But I see your point. I am aware that Lithiums are better in every way, especially in cold weather and have better runtime and more dependable. Good choice for sure. 

The single best cell out there has to be Lithium AA, supposedly it can store longer than 123 judging by the expiration date. If 20 years is not enough, what is. NiMH and Li-Ion cells should fail by that time even if you have the ability to recharge them. Alkalines will be the first to go, I will leave them for home use.

I have a few hundred Lithium cells, with careful usage in low-powered lites they should last for years or even up to their expiration date. Forget guilt-free lumens. 

Surefire came up with that cool 2xAA lite which looks really good on paper but I wonder how cost-efficient it is. Seems like a good addition at the right price. But I am going to check out the new Malkoff M31 module on 2xAA cells, if I like it enough, I will get M31L and M31LL for great runtime. 
Maybe then I could obsolete all the 123-based lites I have along with 18650 cells and really simplify things. 18650-based lites are nice but maybe not practical in TSHTF when recharging becomes difficult or impossible, if the grid is down. Solar chargers... Well, just easier to stick a cell in it sometimes. 123 lites are better than 18650 in an emergency but still introduce logistical complications. 
I am painfully aware that for a real and long-lasting emergency, having just one type of cell does have distinct advantages. I have a lot of other devices that are powered by the AA cell. This way, if you need the radio but not the lite, you can borrow cells from the lite, and vice-versa. Impossible with 123 and AA.

I must admit I haven't used D or C-based lites in years. Still have them, along with a boatload of cells but they seem like stuff to be traded.


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## Kestrel (Aug 4, 2010)

etc said:


> Surefire came up with that cool 2xAA lite which looks really good on paper but I wonder how cost-efficient it is. Seems like a good addition at the right price. But I am going to check out the new Malkoff M31 module on 2xAA cells, if I like it enough, I will get M31L and M31LL for great runtime.


I'm very much of the opinion that the new SF E2L-AA is a rather poor match for your particular kit: Both the head & tailcap aren't interchangeable with your current 6P-based configurations, providing essentially no ability to swap out inoperative/malfunctioning parts in the field.

*Much* better to have a SF 9P with the M31 / M31L, with 2xAA. Also, you could carry two dummy CR123's. Now you have a light that has complete parts interchangeability with your current lights - the dropin plus the Z41 tailcap. Change out modules, cells, tailcaps, heads, everything in your kit can be interchanged, depending on the need. The two dummy CR123's along with CR123's, 18650's, and AA's can now be run in virtually any configuration you might find necessary.

I am setting up one of my car lights (a SureFire D3) in this manner:

Malkoff M31W
Malkoff M61WLL (hopefuly, as a backup perhaps)
2xAA (Eneloops as well as AA Lithiums for backup)
CR123's for more backup
Z41 tailcap (w/ McC2s switch)
Z41 tailcap (stock) in reserve
two dummy CR123's (for the *3x*CR123 SF body)
With the huge number of possible combinations with these parts, this configuration should be ready for just about any possible situation or parts failure. It would be even stronger paired with your kit, *much more so* than the nearly 100% incompatible SF E2L-AA.


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## red02 (Aug 4, 2010)

KiwiMark said:


> I'm not too sure that a 108 year old Eneloop would be any good, even if never used. From what I have read NiMH cells have a shelf life somewhere around 3 to 5 years. The AA Lithium cells have a shelf life of around 15 years. I suspect a 15 year old NiMH cell will be barely usable for anything and will not hold a reasonable charge.



The solar charged will probably quit, the LED has about a 5yr life span as it is. Things tend to break down if constantly abused and slammed. Out in the wild a flashlight is not the holy grail. It helps, but if you need a flashlight for 15yrs there is something wrong that a light will not fix.

My point was that mathematically and practically it makes sense to use a solar charger.


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## tolkaze (Aug 4, 2010)

As for batteries and availability in emergencies, I have a hard box with my batteries in it, and another one as an emergency kit. In the emergency kit I have 2 boxes of fresh CR123's and several lights (they change, as I haven't found one I want to keep in there full time yet) but as for the batteries, every time I buy a new box of CR123's, I put the new box in the emergency box, and take the oldest box out. That way I use up cells before their expiry date, and always have the freshest box in the emergency kit. So far, the expiry dates have only changed buy about 2 years, but I figure in 10 years time, no partially depleted cells in my emergency kit!


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## KiwiMark (Aug 4, 2010)

red02 said:


> My point was that mathematically and practically it makes sense to use a solar charger.



I have nothing against a solar charger - if you can keep a bunch of Eneloops fully charged then you can use a light as you feel like for a few years. But longer term you may find that it makes more sense to have some AA Lithiums and ration out their use as they will be good for 15 years, which will be several years after the NiMH batteries are no good.

If we are talking about no power ever again then at some point you would have to switch to some more primitive form of illumination like pine sap/pitch/wax torches or whatever. And as you say the lack of a working flashlight will not be your biggest concern.


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## red02 (Aug 4, 2010)

KiwiMark said:


> I have nothing against a solar charger - if you can keep a bunch of Eneloops fully charged then you can use a light as you feel like for a few years. But longer term you may find that it makes more sense to have some AA Lithiums and ration out their use as they will be good for 15 years, which will be several years after the NiMH batteries are no good.
> ...



Thats a good point. L91s are very comforting to see in your pack when your digging for a good cell.

Just googling the solar panel life span yields about 40 so years. Maybe a super capacitor based light powered by one could be an even more sustainable. The real question is if current solar cell technology can provide enough current to charge one for any reasonable amount of time.


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## etc (Aug 5, 2010)

Kestrel said:


> I'm very much of the opinion that the new SF E2L-AA is a rather poor match for your particular kit: Both the head & tailcap aren't interchangeable with your current 6P-based configurations, providing essentially no ability to swap out inoperative/malfunctioning parts in the field.



No, my point was throwing out everything else and keeping just the new SF 2xAA. And maybe a backup 1xAA lite like Infinity, poor thing that it is.

My concern is that: 
(1) the new SF is untested at this point, and I am little afraid of digital lites, I like one-mode twisty. 
(2) I rather like SF 6P format. It's bulletproof and idiot proof. Arguably easier to EDC than 2xAA. It has never fallen out of my pocket while 2xAA has. It really has all the features I want, I cannot think of anything to delete or add.
(3) While L91 is roughly equal to 123 in performance, with the rechargeable solution, I like 18650 more than NiMH that you get with AA. 
(4) All in all, it would solve a problem that I don't really have in the first place.
(5) I have more hope in the 2xAA configuration with the new Malkoff M31xx module. If it really meets my expectations, I can get several. Looks like it's tuned for 2xAA or 1x123 format.


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## etc (Aug 5, 2010)

An interesting candidate for TSHTF lite is a SF 9P clone with Malkoff M6XLL module. It can take several 18mm Li-Ion cells, or 3x123 cells, or 2xAA, in fact AA in any chemistry even NiZN. The lumens and runtime are determined by the cells put in it. 







What I actually EDC as a designated TSHTF lite is a 6P clone with M60L. I like the ability to run either Li-Ion or primary CR123A. You get 120-140 lumens in a lite shorter than Mini-Mag. The 2900 mAh Panasonic cells generate an impressive runtime, at least 4 hours with a long tail and don't suddenly cut off which might be a problem in some situations. CR123A are brighter but shorter runtime with an even longer tail. 






And more details on the above 3xAA Lite. What I like about this FiveMega with M6*LL is that you can use any AA chemistry. I like it more than M30 due to extremely long runtime on AAs. Another TSHTF lite. It will digest and spit out anything you put in it. Believe it or not, even junky non-alkaline "heavy duty" cells perform pretty good in it. Eneloops are better, Alkalines are better still and the best is of course Lithium cells. When everything stops, you should be able to get AA cells are the most common cell, plus I like having compatibility with my other devices that run on AA. You get Surefire quality but can run AA cells. A winning combination in my opinion. 
I am deeply aware of the fact that 3xAA is is not even remotely practical for EDC. It doesn't fit anywhere and you need a special holster for it and even in a holster it would get in the way if you sat down. I haven't really figured out a way to EDC it. I kept it in the drawer for a long time, occasionally taking it out and looking at it, thinking how nice it is and putting it back. Until I decided to use it in the TSHTF kit. The knurling is better than on SF and the form factor is not bad for actual use.






The pouches can get detached and carried on the belt. If you don't run the lite non-stop for 48 hours, they should last a long time. I have a few more compact pouches that take 6x123 or so. I have a dedicated pouch for the extra Li-Ion cell phone batteries. My smart phone is pretty stupid and discharges so fast that you can go through a cell in no time at all.


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## kosPap (Aug 6, 2010)

well time for my contribution

My version is a double version of this






! surefire 6P and a Soalrforce L2M with 2 extenders
Single stage and multimode modules in 2AA & 2-3xCR123 versions
3 Xenon bulbs
Extra switches
6 Cr123s - 8AA lithium - several low cost rechargable Li-Ions (treated as single use)

With limited funds this is all I could do, else I would go to soemthing like the ETC's route....maybe with Malkoff bodies. 
The low-mode ring head is very attractive idea....its is the best balance of practicality while still maintaning a tactical function...


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## etc (Aug 6, 2010)

Xenon bulbs? 
Don't you think some kind of solid state technology is more reliable than Xenon? Or do you do it because of the superior tint?


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## broadgage (Aug 6, 2010)

If planning for the long term, say 10 or 15 years then I would agree that lithium cells are the way to go.
I would not trust any consumer grade rechargeable cell for longer than 5 years.
IME the longest lasting rechargeable cells are old style 4 A/H D size NiCds, I have some over 20 years old and they work fine.
Recent advances in battery technology have been mainly to pack more A/H into a given space, shelf life and cycle life being secondary.

A 4 A/H d cell compares well with zinc carbon, and will work a lower power LED lamp for a long while.

These cells are very robust and will stand more abuse than modern sorts, they may be charged directly from a 10/20 watt PV module, though a proper charger would be preferable.
My long term disaster kit includes some of these cells, and a couple of PV modules.


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## kosPap (Aug 6, 2010)

etc said:


> Xenon bulbs?
> Don't you think some kind of solid state technology is more reliable than Xenon? Or do you do it because of the superior tint?


 
I will not claim EMP resistance, as soemone might expect...I just want to have my options open...

I will have to tahnk ETc for sprakling some more thought on the matter...
I have firmly set my belief at 1.2-3.6 modules wiht the addition of a 3.6-9V one..

BTW missing from mentioning & the pic is 2 flashlights. one that takes 1CR123 and another 2CR123s, that you can thread P60 pill into...Add a Derrelight DBS and you have maximum compatibility for the whole family!


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## WESBC (Aug 7, 2010)

Not trying to hijack, but this thread has got me thinking into putting together a similar light kit for the same circumstances.

I've been thinking hard about what lights to include and the different options I can go with. I was thinking similarly by using a 6P+A19 body for use of CR123's and AA's and having a low and high voltage LED drop in to match. Also I would've gotten spacers to allow me to use 1 cell formats of each battery, not needing to match voltages or worrying about having just 1 cell left.

I started thinking about this and I came to the conclusion that it would be a little too much to carry. Albeit only being a few pieces in total, why not minimize it some more? I already EDC a E2DL/E1DL not to mention all the other lights in my truck (BOV) All standardizing on CR123's or D cell for a couple mags. And like a few pointed out something that has a long lasting low mode that would make sure no unwanted attention is drawn to you.

This leads me to my direction for my kit, why not have a separate 1AA and 1CR123 multi-mode light dedicated for SHTF scenarios. No worrying about: switching drop ins, odd # of cells, cell voltage (if you come across some batteries), no spacers, extenders. I will include a decent amount of batteries in the kit. I've still got the fun lights that can light up the night the stay in my car, but nothing dedicated for when the SHTF. I was thinking like Quark mini 123 &AA (they gotta match lol), this will allow high/low low output, SOS, and strobe. It's small enough (hopefully not too small) that I can still carry my other lights if needed.

Opinions welcomed


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## kosPap (Aug 7, 2010)

well there are some considerations to deal with

the plus side of your reasoning is taht there are EDC lights taht can take body extensions and run AAs...Raptor -o and Dereelight C2H....

The downside is that it robs you of the total reliabiliti of the Malkoff/Surefire 

if we are talking about SHTF we must consider long term suppert/spare parts/ maintenance & repair.

Imagine running out of AA batts and the otehr light does not wrok....
In this reassoning I would really opt for a Mcclickie is a SF lockout tailcap..if it fails i can at least bridge contacts and use it as a twist tailcap.

We are overlooking the headlamp, so another system is tempting
Zebralight H-xx and one Sc-xx. one coudl standarize in AA especially if he has some cheap unprotected 14500

ETC, sorry we are talking this so far, but I think we are still in the spirit of your OP....


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## batmanacw (Aug 7, 2010)

kosPap said:


> well there are some considerations to deal with
> 
> the plus side of your reasoning is taht there are EDC lights taht can take body extensions and run AAs...Raptor -o and Dereelight C2H....
> 
> ...



I have several variations of "kits", but all my lights are for SHTF. About 50 of them. 

My bug out gear has a Fenix P3D (old version) and a Fenix P2D. I carry enough batteries to run for months of regular usage on low. 8 batteries is plenty. This is what will go if I have to walk out the door and hit the woods running. It also has a cheap headlamp that takes two AAA batteries. The fenix lights will be eventually replaced with Quarks because of the more efficient low that attracts less attention. 

My get home gear, because I travel for a living, has a Quark 2AA regular and a Quark 2AA tactical warm, a zebra light headlamp, and a Fenix LD10. There might be a couple other little lights I forgot, but this is my travel arrangement. 

For around home, my lighting consists of several efficient AA lanterns running off eneloops. Many of my lights run off eneloops like my TK40, LD20, D10, NDI and others. I have solar panels set up to charge my deep cycle battery so I can run my fast chargers to get them charged up at least once a week. 

Lots of folks plan on running to the woods when TSHTF and living like grizzly adams. That is the worst possible idea.


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## etc (Aug 9, 2010)

batmanacw said:


> Lots of folks plan on running to the woods when TSHTF and living like grizzly adams. That is the worst possible idea.



I agree. The whole idea of "bugging out" is faulty, because you should already be there in the first place and if you are not, bugging out will not work. We had a 2-day power outage recently and that was almost TSHTF - stoplights not working, traffic not moving, trivial tasks become complicated, like running to the store for gas. McDonalds were closed due to power outages. I ran the genny all that time but lacked enough outlets to plug in all the devices. So I used the generator + lites + candles throughout the premises. It was a taste of TSHTF, I can only imagine how bad it gets 3 weeks into it, or 3 months. 

Even without TSHTF, you can get stranded somewhere without power for days. 

I changed my kit a little. Took out alkalines. Now have total 24 x CR123A cells and 25 x Lithium AA cells. Now that should mean a huge runtime. With conservative usage, should last for weeks if not months.


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## Monocrom (Aug 9, 2010)

Bugging Out needs to be done the right way, in order for it to be a viable option. You need to have a place to bug out to. (And I don't mean deciding, "Okay, I'll head over to this place I know of if things get really bad.") No, you need to have things planned out and prepared before hand. 

Just like having a BOB ready to go, you need to have a place already prepared to go to. For example, buying an old cabin in the woods that is far back from traffic. More than a bit difficult to find and get to. Fix it up. Be sure to strengthen the doors leading inside. Have the place stocked with food, water, books on survival and First-Aid, radio, etc.

Think of the cabin as a giant BOB that you can live inside of. That's just one example. Prepare a Safe House now, so that you'll actually have a place to bug out to, if needed.


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## OceanView (Aug 9, 2010)

KiwiMark said:


> I have to wonder why have the 12 Alkalines? I would rather go with 12 more Lithium AA cells for their superior capacity & shelf life ...


 Just another consideration. Depending on the light and what kind of driver it uses (or lack of one), you may actually get more usable runtime using alkalines than L91's. Since L91's don't sag like alkalines, they can pump out a higher amount of juice, but at the expense of overall runtime. Our eyes are wonderfully able to adapt to varying light levels and emergency situations are typically very, very dark, so a long, gradual tail in an emergency is not so bad for general purpose illumination, i.e. not "tactical" or "who's out there?" kind of lighting.


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## wyager (Aug 9, 2010)

The nice thing about AA lights in SHTF situations is that AA batteries are included stock in a alot of electronics, so after all the bulk batteries have been bought/stolen a resourceful person can go through all of the TV remotes and grab those AAs. I'll personally be using the moonlight mode on my quark most of the time if SHTF....


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## Ian2381 (Aug 9, 2010)

This Thread made me make a waterproof light kit, everything small.

Light Kit Contains:
1 MiNi AA neutral.
3 Eneloops
1 Duracell alkaline
1 Fenix E01
3 AAA rechargeables (low discharge)
1 Fauxton

I'll probably be buying lithium AA cells for this.


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## etc (Aug 10, 2010)

OceanView said:


> Just another consideration. Depending on the light and what kind of driver it uses (or lack of one), you may actually get more usable runtime using alkalines than L91's. Since L91's don't sag like alkalines, they can pump out a higher amount of juice, but at the expense of overall runtime.




Good point...

I will probably replace M61LL on 3xAA with M31LL on 2xAA cells. I never found that 3xAA configuration all that practical but M31 is tuned for 2xAA cells, which fit nicely in Surefire 9P sized lite.


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## CarpentryHero (Mar 30, 2011)

When the SHTF I'll probably be helping people out in the short run, with any luck I'll be able to recharge my 18650's while at work. As city maintenance, I'd feel obligated to help with repairs or rescue if asked. If things deteriorate into chaos, I'll be grabbing my 4 light that take single AA. Mostly cause the chances of getting two batteries the same charge and brand may be harder as time passes, I've got 10 nimh batteries and 8 lithium batteries, in my toolbox. 
The lights I'd grab are my Quark AA, Crelant, thrunite Nuetron 1A, and my nitecore D10. 
All these lights can run on 14500 or AA batteries, all are very well built and have multiple modes.
That'd be my kit. Motherinlaw has a cabin out west, I can heat with the fireplace, waters stocked in bottles.
Without power the well won't run, but atleast it's a little of the beaten path.


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## angelofwar (Mar 30, 2011)

CarpentryHero said:


> When the SHTF I'll probably be helping people out in the short run, with any luck I'll be able to recharge my 18650's while at work. As city maintenance, I'd feel obligated to help with repairs or rescue if asked. If things deteriorate into chaos, I'll be grabbing my 4 light that take single AA. Mostly cause the chances of getting two batteries the same charge and brand may be harder as time passes, I've got 10 nimh batteries and 8 lithium batteries, in my toolbox.
> The lights I'd grab are my Quark AA, Crelant, thrunite Nuetron 1A, and my nitecore D10.
> All these lights can run on 14500 or AA batteries, all are very well built and have multiple modes.
> That'd be my kit. Motherinlaw has a cabin out west, I can heat with the fireplace, waters stocked in bottles.
> Without power the well won't run, but atleast it's a little of the beaten path.


 
I'm currently working on a "kit", and already have the basics:

E2L-AA
M3LT (For trumping over the baddies/rescues, etc. during the initial stages)
AA-Solar Charger (Can also charge small electronics)
24 Ene/Duraloops
22 L91's
SC1 w/ 6 SF Primaries
24 SF Primaries tucked in a smaller Peli

All tucked in my new Peli...which I can attach to a ALICE ruck frame if needed

Just need to work some of my other lights into it...maybe my Kroma for stealth...and then some NATO lifeboat matches/Tinder quick, and an extra Leatherman???

WIll postp ics when I get it finished...after reading this and seeing Kestrels "car light" box, I really want a SHTF box...currently my other Peli's are just for storage purposes, and aren;t set-up in any sense, except to hold my more expensive SF's.

Oh, Carpentry Hero, if you lose power and the well quits, just hook the belt of the motor up to a makeshift windmill or at least a bike or something...where-ever the elctrical compnent ends and the mechanical components start.


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## CarpentryHero (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks for the pointer for the pump :thumbsup:


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## Monocrom (Mar 31, 2011)

As A.O.W. already mentioned, a solar-powered AA battery-charger would be a good investment.

Also, good to have a back-up plan as to how you'd get to that cabin if the roads were blocked with a sea of cars.


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## mbw_151 (Mar 31, 2011)

Most flashaholics will have more lights than they need. It will be the rest of the stuff that bites you. Water, food, clothes, medicine, just to start a very long list. After the big 9.0 in Japan, I had to rethink by BOB bag at work. I live in the Pacific Northwest and our exposure to a big quake is similiar. How would I get home if many of the bridges fall? Worst case, walk 20 miles and carry the bag. So now I'm thinking about lights like I'm backpacking, small and light. Surefire Saint Minimus, HDS/Ra EDC and two spare 123s. Oh and a good pair of hiking boots.


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## CarpentryHero (Mar 31, 2011)

Sturgeon river and a stolen kayak  
I know three ways to drive there, and one by water :thumbsup:


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## okent (Mar 31, 2011)

I have a Fenix MC10 and HL20. Plus a TK45. I keep a ton of lithium AA's for the long shelf life. 
I want a new single AA that runs the new L emitter and has a low low though I don't know if the L emitter is necessary.
Another thing to consider is night vision which I would be using so as to be able to get around unnoticed. 
The AA's also work in my night vision. Have 3 lights that run off CR123's just in case.

In had thought about getting rechargeable batts but never thought about the short shelf life, I think I'll pass on them now.
Great thread.


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## angelofwar (Apr 1, 2011)

okent said:


> I have a Fenix MC10 and HL20. Plus a TK45. I keep a ton of lithium AA's for the long shelf life.
> I want a new single AA that runs the new L emitter and has a low low though I don't know if the L emitter is necessary.
> Another thing to consider is night vision which I would be using so as to be able to get around unnoticed.
> The AA's also work in my night vision. Have 3 lights that run off CR123's just in case.
> ...



Grab some Duraloops or Eneloops and see what the Japanese did for the R/C AA Battery...you may change your mind. 80% power maintained over 1 year...good for 1000 charges (not a life, per-se)...and most importanly...THEY DON'T LEAK...and in a SHTF scenario, when we Americans have to leave the comfort of our 24 hour A/C, alkalines will leak a LOT faster than they do now...(See also "Things I learned the hard way" in the Cafe).

Oh, and :welcome:


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## Kestrel (Apr 1, 2011)

angelofwar said:


> [...] 80% power maintained over 1 year


Not too long ago I rec'd an order of three-year old Duraloops (the Shnoopaloops, LOL) and all of them consistently provided me *60%* of a full charge the first time around - just amazing. These fantastic low-self-discharge cells belong on the front line of an emergency kit IMO - incredibly inexpensive rechargeable cells for how bombproof they are. L91's or CR123's are good, especially for very long term storage, but with respect to reliability over long periods, these NiMH's are nearly in the same league as those world-class lithium chemistries.

We've never had it so good. 

Edit: look at this another way: There is always the possibility of a bum cell, even for the top-drawer US mfg. lithium primary cells. However, give the Eneloop-class of NiMH cells one or two cycles so you *know* that they work, then put them away. You will know that they will perform as expected, even 4-5 years later (at a somewhat-reduced state of charge, of course). Do you know that your reserve CR123's or L91's lithiums will all work when they are needed? Are you sure?


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## KiwiMark (Apr 1, 2011)

Kestrel said:


> However, give the Eneloop-class of NiMH cells one or two cycles so you *know* that they work, then put them away. You will know that they will perform as expected, even 4-5 years later (at a somewhat-reduced state of charge, of course).


 
Or even better - every 6 months drain & recharge them. Then you know they are still good and they have over 90% charge. It's always good to check your WTSHTF supplies every now & then anyway, cycling the food & water as well.


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## Kestrel (Apr 1, 2011)

Bones has a number of NIP Eneloops (AA and AAA) pushing 5 years old by now. I also have four AAA Eneloops 4.5 years old or so and am thinking of sending them to him for testing at the 5-year anniversary. It just blows my mind that there are rechargeable cells that we can trust completely, right out of the package, 5 years after manufacture.

If I was King, _*Eneloops*_ would be the edict of my kingdom. 

Edit: Well, one of the edicts.


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 1, 2011)

One thing I think people forget to toss in with a light kit is a battery tester, especially if the light uses multiple batteries at once many times one battery will have plenty of power left while the other is completely drained dry. You could put a single cell light in that has a low mode instead to use all your battery resources instead. As far as solar goes... the cost of a solar setup to me doesn't justify less than an outage of several weeks to a month and that would be not having any access to any source of power at all for I could charge my duraloops from a 12v battery in a junkyard or off an abandoned car if things got that crazy.


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## biggenius29 (Apr 1, 2011)

I am working on a SHTF BOB right now. I am at the stage of looking for a flashlight. I have my 9p that I have on my rifle, and in my bag I have a PD30. 

After a bunch of research I think I will be getting a Aviator with red LED's. It will be my new EDC light, along with a SHTF light. The red LED for the purpose of not killing my night vision so I can sneak around if need be.

For me, my ideal light that I would really like would be a KROMA, but at the moment I dont have that coin to drop. 

Right now a majority of my SHTF fund is being spent on gunpowder, bullets and primers. With that I can acomplish multiple tasks (food, protection, bartering ect...)


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## angelofwar (Apr 1, 2011)

Lynx_Arc said:


> One thing I think people forget to toss in with a light kit is a battery tester, especially if the light uses multiple batteries at once many times one battery will have plenty of power left while the other is completely drained dry. You could put a single cell light in that has a low mode instead to use all your battery resources instead. As far as solar goes... the cost of a solar setup to me doesn't justify less than an outage of several weeks to a month and that would be not having any access to any source of power at all for I could charge my duraloops from a 12v battery in a junkyard or off an abandoned car if things got that crazy.



My solar charger charges a "battery pack" with 2 AA's (Currently Eneloops)...but the battery pack has adapters for cell phones, I-Pod's what-ever...So I could put scavanged AA's (Alkies, lith's, whatever), or use pre-charged R/C's, or even charge the other small items direct drive from the solar panel or from the pack with-out the solar panel. Strap the panel to the out-side of a back-pack or out-side my bug-out shelter and forget about it...then top-off my I-pod at night...or swap the batteries in my E2L-AA if needed.

Got a quality Solar Charger for $89...now I can charge my goodies either staying put and "hidden" from the "zombies", or on the move...and save my time scavenging 12V car batteries for water purification/gathering or food acquisition. Just not crazy about "humping" a car battery back to my shelter unless absolutely necessary...and I like the option of being able to lay low on my time...minimizing my exposure.

Oh, and I agree with you on the tester...got a thin/small digital one attached to my B65 holder via velcro that takes the same battery as my Glo-Toob. These can also be used to trouble shoot/repair scavenged electronics, generators, etc.

Here's what I'm working on now...my other Peli's a currently dedicated to light storage only, as I had planned with this one, but decided to make this one specifically for light/power sources...my residence is in Arkansas, and these waterproof emergency kits are a must with all the tornadoes and the unexpected torrential rainfall/hail storms associated.







At the bottom is my folding solar charger, and off to the right the "battery pack" with 2 Eneloops. Above that, a battery case with 6ea. Duraloops and 6ea. L91's. To the right of that an Inova X1. Above these is my E2L-AA and M3LT-S. I know the M3LT-S is not the most "efficient" light out there, but I'm a firm believer in having at least one, no-sh!t "Action Light" in my SHTF kits for search and rescue and force multiplier applications.






Also going to try and squeeze an SC1 with 6 SF CR123's. Any other ideas as to what I could/should put in there?


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## okent (Apr 1, 2011)

Thanks for the welcome angelofwar! 
I totally agree with your "Action Light" requirement. That's why I got the TK45: incredibly bright if needed.
I don't need to drive nails with it but if I need to light it up then it will work.
I would strongly consider a headlight of some kind. The ability to have both hands free without holding the light in my mouth or crook of the neck is priceless to me.

I guess I do need to check out the rechargables. If things got extremely bad it would buy me 3-5 years of rechargables and then I would have the lithiums still in reserve for another 10.
I am really just trying to pick up some information so I buy right and buy once for rechargables and a solar charger.
Thanks


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 1, 2011)

angelofwar said:


> My solar charger charges a "battery pack" with 2 AA's (Currently Eneloops)...but the battery pack has adapters for cell phones, I-Pod's what-ever...So I could put scavanged AA's (Alkies, lith's, whatever), or use pre-charged R/C's, or even charge the other small items direct drive from the solar panel or from the pack with-out the solar panel. Strap the panel to the out-side of a back-pack or out-side my bug-out shelter and forget about it...then top-off my I-pod at night...or swap the batteries in my E2L-AA if needed.
> 
> Got a quality kit for $89...now I can charge my goodies either staying put and "hidden" from the "zombies", or on the move...and save my time scavenging 12V car batteries for water purification/gathering or food acquisition. Just not crazy about "humping" a car battery back to my shelter unless absolutely necessary...and I like the option of being able to lay low on my time...minimizing my exposure.


 
I would need a solar charger capable of charging 6-10 AAs a day and a 12v panel to charger a portable DVD player too. Last power outage in 2007 I used up 24 nimh AAs in 4.5 days but I did not have anything to do and have better lights now that can go through batteries faster (area lights). I have a duracell charger with a USB tap and an IGO Ipod charger by energizer that I can buy tips for anything that takes 4AAs.


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## ledsmoke (Apr 2, 2011)

Hi all. I was just wondering about one thing in this fine discussion. No one mentions the possibility of a mechanical charger. You know the kind you activate with your own muscle power. Just thinking it would make a nice contribution in case of meteor strike and or a mega vulcano going off and covering the earths sky in a cloud of dust that blocks the sun out for a few years. Happened before so it could happen again I guess.
Is the reason that it takes too long to charge or what? I have no experience with this type of chargers so I cannot help with knowledge myself.

Just wondering, thats all. But then thats what most of us do - right?


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## angelofwar (Apr 2, 2011)

My Eton has a bulit in battery, but it can also take 3 Eneloop AA's...I THINK when running the crank, it can charge the Eneloops as well...


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 2, 2011)

I wouldn't rely on a hand crank solution to recharge eneloops on a long term basis. A stationary bike type generator could be a good solution though as they claim that you can get from 100-300 watts out of them for the average person. You could use a 12v battery to capture the excess power produced to charge batteries and even use a small inverter to power other AC devices. I invested in a 400 watt inverter awhile back in case of an outage or to have portable power to run small appliances.


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## mellowman (Apr 2, 2011)

You really don't want to waste your calories to charge little batteries in a TSHTF scenario. Most likely food will be a precious commodity, so those calories you would burn to charge little AA's bats will be calories you need to live. I'm sure you'll get more than enough of a workout just trying to survive. 

BTW, trying to survive a TSHTF scenario that blocks out the sun is futile. The bugs/insects in your neighborhood have a better shot at surviving it.....maybe...


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## Monocrom (Apr 2, 2011)

No offense to anyone, but I envision a TSHTF scenario as something more realistic than the Sun being blocked out or an EMP going off. Massive Earthquake or other natural disaster. Something along those lines. Definitely a solar charger for AA lights. At least a couple of good AA lights in the kit. One headlamp, and one hand-held. Two should be enough since I typically EDC at least two lights on me anyway.


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## kosPap (Apr 4, 2011)

Hi all!

I have been updating my kit....

now it will consiist of a
Dereelight DBS XPG + extender
Solareforce L2M + 2 extenders (pending the purchase of a CL2H that sharew body, extenders & switch with the DBS)

These flashlights share pills too, so I am in the process of acquiring/making these

XPG 0.9-4.2V single mode (bought)
XPG 0.9-4.2V multi mode (on construction)
XM-L 3.6V single mode
XM-L 3.6V multi mode (already made)

in essense the system will be run on 18650 and/or AAs

note: I have a XPG DBS that I opened up the hole to suit the XM-L, works fine!

the system will be futher supplemented by 2 AW battery charging spacers... they make a CR123 spacer together and a single oen cna be used to run AA/14500/17500/18500s

the downside is the decreased efficiency of the boost driver, but I kinda prefer the flexibility!

that is all for now, kostas


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