# Do any of you junkies have Surefire knives?



## tundratrader (Oct 31, 2009)

I am mainly looking at the EW-04 but cant find any decent reviews. It seems like it would be hard for surefire to make a bad product but you never know. I like that the knife has the glass breaker and seatbelt cutter built in. The wrench is probably just about useless. If anyone has any pics or any info about the Surefire knives I would really appreciate it. 
Thanks
Zach


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## cbxer55 (Oct 31, 2009)

NO!

Way too expensive! Possibly way too over-rated as well.

Buy a Benchmade, Cold Steel, Spyderco, etc. Leave the Surefires on the shelf.

I do not hate Surefire, have several of their lights. But to me, it is like buying a Harley. You are paying a premium for a name.


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## Morelite (Nov 1, 2009)

cbxer55 said:


> NO!
> 
> Way too expensive! Possibly way too over-rated as well.
> 
> ...


 +1, I'm into the Bob Terzuola knives at the moment.


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## jp2515 (Nov 1, 2009)

IMO Surefire makes nice lights. Their knives are great too but I have no practical use for them (not to mention the prices). Even if I had a SF knife, still day after day, the Spyderco/Benchmade/Kershaw/Boker would probably see more use


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## Patriot (Nov 1, 2009)

jp2515 said:


> IMO Surefire makes nice lights. Their knives are great too but I have no practical use for them (not to mention the prices). Even if I had a SF knife, still day after day, the Spyderco/Benchmade/Kershaw/Boker would probably see more use






+1 to everything jp2515 said.


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## Search (Nov 1, 2009)

I really wanted the "Edge" (EW-09) after seeing it in their catalog. It's only 199 which is better than some of the others. However, I still think I'll get a ZT 0350.


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## Kiessling (Nov 1, 2009)

I have the "Delta". It was the first expensive knife I bought and I still don't really know how to tell why it is inferior to the others in this price range. 

I buy some knives for the gadget-factor and use them mostly for ...







... so my opinion doesn't really count that much.

Some more pics:





Next to a Frad Carter GIGAND


I was attracted because I never touched a good knife before and because of the window breaker and seat belt cutter.

The wrench is dangerous IMHO because upon closing the knife, my fingertips tend to slip inside and get cut :sick2:
The opening is super smooth and it has a single satisfying "clack", lockup is stable, blade is centered. 

bernie


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## TKC (Nov 3, 2009)

*No, I can't stand the looks of SF knives!! :sick2:And for the price, I would rather have a nice custom knife.*


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## kwkarth (Nov 3, 2009)

In the knife kingdom there are far better values to be had IMHO. In fact, Bernie, I think that's a pretty cheesy use you've put the SF to. :laughing:

Look at that god awful pivot screw on the SF! Not the best of design choices, likewise with the mid handle multi-wrench. At least CPM S30V is pretty good steel. But a better knife could be had for 100 bux.


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## Kiessling (Nov 3, 2009)

It did cut the cheese very well indeed, we had a satisfying meal thanx to SF 

But now that we have the experts here ... what exactly makes rthe SF knife less good or too expensive compared to other knives?

Let's say compared to a Strider or an XM-18, which all cost about the same?

I am new to the knife world and I wanna know everything 

I have an XM18 and a PT ...






... and while I am awed by the look and feel of the Hinderer, I can't really say why the SF is inferior.

The blade is thinner, ok, and you cut your fingers in the hex whole :sick2: ... but otherwise? :thinking:

The movement of the Strider is way grittier than the smooth SF and the opening and closing sound and feel of the SF is at least as nice as the others.
Please educate a noob! :bow:

bernie


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## jzmtl (Nov 3, 2009)

Buy flashlights from a flashlight company, knives from a knife company, pens from a pen company. When one company ventures into another field they may (but most of the time does not) make something comparable to what another company who specialized in that field can do, but you will pay much more for it.


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## kwkarth (Nov 3, 2009)

jzmtl said:


> Buy flashlights from a flashlight company, knives from a knife company, pens from a pen company. When one company ventures into another field they may (but most of the time does not) make something comparable to what another company who specialized in that field can do, but you will pay much more for it.



This is generally sage advice. US knife manufacturers that I would consider are Lone Wolf, SOG, Benchmade, Leatherman, William Henry, Spyderco, . There are many more, but these are the ones I am most familiar with.

My personal favorites are Lone Wolf, Benchmade, and William Henry.

Lone Wolf and William Henry are two are Oregon companies who make ALL of their products here in Oregon, so they support the local economy and provide US jobs. 

Benchmade and Leatherman are also Oregon companies and make most of their knives and tools here in Oregon, and therefore support the local economy and provide jobs.

CRKT and Gerber are also Oregon companies but they outsource/offshore most of their products. CRKT quality is usually pretty good, but Gerber has fallen waaaaay down in quality since Fiskars bought them out.


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## tundratrader (Nov 7, 2009)

I fully understand that surefire is a flashlight company but I really feel like they can do no wrong. I have never seen one of these in person so I wouldnt buy one until then anyways. It is not like I need another knife but I am very intrigued. I mean do any of us really need anything more that a G2? I think in no way could this knife compare to my xm-18 though. My strider I really like but I have never seen the equal to the xm-18.


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## Kiessling (Nov 9, 2009)

I have both an XM-18 and a SF Delta, but unfortunately I have no clue about knives.
My uneducated purely instinctive response would be that the XM-18 is in another league. It is the most bad-*** knife I have ever held.

bernie


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## Patriot (Nov 9, 2009)

It's difficult sometimes Bernie to place a finger on what exactly makes one knife better than another or at least a better value, if nothing else. One of the "problems" with SF selling knives, in the eyes of a lot of enthusiasts, is that there is a lot of pre-existing competition. These aren't "complicated" devices and so there's really no way of hiding intrinsic value under the skin somehow. Knives are easier to directly compare, because they all use a measurable blade steel, handle material and lock system. Beyond that is mostly style and ergonomics so if they fall a bit short in that area it's considered a large deficit. When you compare the features, styling, and material of a $80 Kershaw for example to a Delta, there's really nothing about the Delta that I'd rather have over the Kershaw. Surefire uses some fairly exotic styles which sometimes compromise usability, whether it be a handle feature or a characteristic of the blade shape or a combination of each. 

I was recently looking at the LEO model and thought that the thumb stud was way too close to the pivot point and didn't provide much leverage when opening. The pocket clip uses a single screw which is a real turn off and the mechanical arm for chopping flex cuffs just seems oddly redundant since a sharp blade goes through them like butter anyhow. I say, just make it a recessed safety cutter and leave the mechanics out of it. Lastly, I just don't think a finger guard is necessary on a knife it's size and it just further uglifies an already unconventional blade style. The cut at the top edge seems odd and I'm trying to understand what if any advantage it provides. If they have to stick with that blade shape, why not do something useful like a full flat grind? And the Delta.....well, I'm wondering what person at SF made the decision to release it for sale with that phillips style pivot screw and round head, protruding, slotted handle screws.:green: I mean, don't they guys read the magazines, reviews, or accidentally stumble across the styling cues of other modern, tactical folders? Do they know what a torx is?

If their knives were half the price at least I could put them on a table together and start comparing them feature for feature but at the price point they carry now it's sort of become the standing giggle in that not many take them too seriously. I think many SF knives are purchased by name association alone thinking that because it's a SF, "it must be the best." The fact is, they're well behind the cool curve in an age where the image of a $100 "working" knife is favored by a larger percentage of buyers. For example, most people would rather be the proud owner of a RAT RC-4 than a Surefire Echo and where people want something more upscale, they can move to a BRKT, Fallkniven or any number of choices that will cost from 1/3 - 2/3rds the amount of the SF with no sacrifice performance. 

I think SF would do well to collaborate with a big name custom maker and then license them under the custom makers name. I'm only guessing but I would think that a few makers would love to be associated with SF. The thing is, SF would have to take a back seat and let the knife guy do what they do best.


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## Lightraven (Nov 10, 2009)

Patriot said:


> the mechanical arm for chopping flex cuffs just seems oddly redundant since a sharp blade goes through them like butter anyhow. I say, just make it a recessed safety cutter and leave the mechanics out of it.



The other night, I made contact with two 19 year olds. They ran from me and I chased them down. Once I had them on the ground, my coworkers arrived and flexcuffed them tight.

Back at the station, I asked someone to cut the cuffs. He used a Gerber multiplier for the first guy's cuff, but the second guy's was too tight for the jaw to slip under. My fellow pulled out his knife and the arrestee freaked out. I didn't want this guy's wrist getting opened, so I got my Monadnock flex cuff cutters. They work better than a Multiplier/Leatherman, but pinch your hands when they chop the cuff. That blows.

The guy pulled on his flex cuff to try to get it off, which just ratcheted it down tighter, then yowled at the pain. I tried using the cuff cutters, but he yelped. We considered calling paramedics to remove it. Finally, I told him the cuff was coming off, but he'd be in pain for a few seconds. I buried the jaws of the cutter into his wrist, made the cuts on the plastic and the cuff came off while he sucked his teeth in pain.


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## RedLED (Nov 10, 2009)

They did have a relationship with knife maker, Steve Ryan. I am not sure that relationship is still intact.

I met Ryan at a knife show years ago, when SF announced the knife addition. He seemed to have an attitude. 

He was the designer, and I think he licensed the designs to SF?

That's all I know.


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## Kiessling (Nov 10, 2009)

Patriot said:


> I think many SF knives are purchased by name association alone thinking that because it's a SF, "it must be the best."



That's exactly what I did. 
Not knowing anything about knives I handled the Delta on a show and was in awe, so I bought it. 

Now that I have a XM-18 that puts things into perspective somewhat.

But ... are you basically saying that the problem with SF knives is a combination of ergonomics, coolness factor and strange features? Because comparing the Delta to my other knives I can't really find a flaw in the workmanship, the lockup or the movement. 

bernie


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## kwkarth (Nov 10, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> That's exactly what I did.
> Not knowing anything about knives I handled the Delta on a show and was in awe, so I bought it.
> 
> Now that I have a XM-18 that puts things into perspective somewhat.
> ...



I would suspect that the workmanship is fairly good, but since knives are not Surefire's core business, the feature set and its implementation may not be what it could be if the knife were designed by a company whose core business was knives. So SF knives may look cool, but not be the best in terms of practical usability. They maybe should have worked with Leatherman or soG if they wanted a "multitool" which is what they have. It's just not a very effective or practical multitool. 

Lightraven
Check out the rescue hooks from Benchmade for removing flex cuffs. 
Benchmade "hooks"
BM hooks
#8blkw


Maybe they would work better than what you guys tried??

Also:


> Properly remove the Flex Cuffs
> Place the subject in a an unbalanced position
> Explain to the subject that you are preparing to remove the Flex Cuffs
> Use a pair of wire cutters to safely remove the Flex cuffs
> ...


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## Kiessling (Nov 10, 2009)

The multitool aspect actually attracted me, yes. Nowadays I would choose otherwise though.


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## Lightraven (Nov 10, 2009)

I'm really not sure how effective any hook would be on the cuffs. They are pretty tough and you don't want some detainee's shoulder separating before the cuff does. I prefer a nice smooth snip over any pulling or cutting action.

I never allow any coworkers to use knives on my detainees. I know it happens all the time to others, but it is dangerous for both the detainee and the officer.

Now that I think about it, my paramedic shears may be the best cutter. I'll have to try them.


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## carrot (Nov 10, 2009)

OK I don't know how many of you have actually handled the SF Delta but I can say from personal experience (the outdoors outfitters by me has EVERYTHING) that the Delta is a very good, high quality knife. I'll say it now, the fit and finish seemed right on par with my Chris Reeve Small Sebenza. Yes, that good. Now whether the design features have merit depends on the individual user, but I wouldn't knock on it for being made by Surefire. It had perfect lockup and silky smooth action and definitely seemed worth the high price. I would not buy one because its feature set is different from the sort I look for in an EDC but if I was looking for a similar feature set I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up.

TL;DR version: It's a good knife. Don't knock it for being a knife made by a flashlight company.


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## RedLED (Nov 11, 2009)

They are what they are. 

I do think some thought went into the designs. If you have one, you have a great, high quality knife, made with good materials.

Sure makes other things like silencers, tactical pens, and lasers. I give them credit for the knife effort.

I would like to just carry one for a week to test it out. 

Frankly, in a way, I kind of want one?


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## kwkarth (Nov 11, 2009)

RedLed said:


> They are what they are.
> 
> I do think some thought went into the designs. If you have one, you have a great, high quality knife, made with good materials.
> 
> ...



I want one too, but that doesn't mean that it's the best way to spend your money. I have a Surefire pen, and it's not bad, but for the same money, there are a lot of alternatives available as well.


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## jzmtl (Nov 11, 2009)

reviews:

http://www.multitool.org/knives/folding-knives/surefire-delta-ew-04.html

http://www.multitool.org/knives/folding-knives/sure-fire-delta-ew-04-long-term-review.html


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## Patriot (Nov 12, 2009)

Lightraven said:


> Now that I think about it, my paramedic shears may be the best cutter. I'll have to try them.




I was thinking about the different flex cuff styles and some are certainly beefier than others. Now that you mentioned the shears, I saw the guys down at the gun club using them during their training. I think you hit the nail on the head with that idea.


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## Punisher_nbi45 (Sep 26, 2010)

I recently came into the surefire ew 09 edge.

I like the design philosophy behind it, but I'm reserving judgement until I can get to use it more.

It's my current edc, and so far, I haven't had any problems with it, although the modified spear point blade takes getting used to. The integral flipper/guard is a nice touch, though, since it bolsters your confidence that if the liner does fail, it would have to shear through that thick piece of metal before the edge ever reaches your fingers.

Will update you guys after Ive been able to thoroughly wring out this bad boy.


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## NoFair (Sep 26, 2010)

The Delta looks pretty decent, but they look a bit to gadget like; I normally prefer my knife to be a cutting tool and use a multi tool for other tasks. 

The prices and Surefire sticking to MSRP makes them unappealing as well. 

I'll stick to Spyderco for folders and Bark River, Spyderco and customs for fixed blades. 

Sverre


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## Solscud007 (Sep 28, 2010)

I have the best of both worlds.

Surefire collaboration Light and Knife.

I have the Surefire Strider and the Surefire Emerson.













Recently I had a friend make me a custom kydex sheath for the Strider.






There is one Surefire knife I would like and that is the old EW-01 alpha.

I like the look of the Surefire logo engraved in the handle


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## Punisher_nbi45 (Sep 28, 2010)

Solscud007 said:


> I have the best of both worlds.
> 
> Surefire collaboration Light and Knife.
> 
> ...




VERY NICE COLLECTION!!! I especially like the how you have your Strider set up with the custom sheath...very chic! I do have some questions, though - aren't you worried your knife may fall out, or is the fit really tight so that won't be an issue in case you have to engage in physical activity? And what type of bag do you have it set-up on?


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## Solscud007 (Sep 28, 2010)

it is very tight. I can jump up and down and nothing will happen.My light might actually fall out instead.

It is mounted onto my S.O.TECH go bag.
http://specopstech.com/osc/product_info.php?cPath=0_161_244&products_id=1767&page=gov


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## QtrMaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Cool setup, but must be kinda heavy though. BTW love your surefire/knife combo collection.

SF knives seems kinda cool, but for those price I'll stick striders.




Solscud007 said:


> I have the best of both worlds.
> 
> Surefire collaboration Light and Knife.
> 
> ...


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## MorpheusT1 (Mar 28, 2011)

Sorry to wake up an old thread.
Just did some reading up on the Surefire EW-09 Edge and found this info over at a diffrent forum.

These are indeed a Steve Ryan Design.

The Surefire Edged Weapons Division consists of Director/Designer/Master knifemaker Steve Ryan, Jeff Halopoff (his knifemaking apprentice for nearly 5 years and shop foreman) and two assemblers. Surefire knives are proudly made by Americans in Fountain Valley, California, USA of American made parts and materials.

The assemblers and Jeff Halopoff finish, fit and assemble each knife. Jeff inspect`s and sharpen each knife. In the rare case that your knife requires repair, Jeff is the one who will repair, refinish and resharpen it.


I have not yet found a negative about this knife that will make me not want to buy it. And i think it is a good price for a very well made knife.

Did i mention i want a Surefire Knife bad?
Well i do :nana:






RedLed said:


> They did have a relationship with knife maker, Steve Ryan. I am not sure that relationship is still intact.
> 
> I met Ryan at a knife show years ago, when SF announced the knife addition. He seemed to have an attitude.
> 
> ...


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## Meganoggin (Mar 29, 2011)

I had the chance to meet Steve recently, he showed me all the Surefire knives and spoke at length about the design influences and why he chose certain features and steels. He is a very knowledgable guy and it was great to hear him discuss his knives.

I too am looking to buy a Surefire knife now!


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## CLHC (Apr 7, 2012)

I've had this SureFire since its first release back in 2006(?) if memory serves me correct.














It's been my EDC till this day. To me this SureFire Delta FCUK has been a very practical tool for my day-to-day work purpose. Of course Your Methods May Vary accordingly so.

Enjoy!


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## 0dBm (Apr 7, 2012)

Functionally, I am certain that Surefire folding knives are fine. I don't know that much about them; however, based on the engineering and manufacturing of their flashlight products, I am also certain that they are of parallel quality.

With respect to aesthetics, I equate Surefire knives to the selected works of Gil Hibben; too many seemingly extraneous curves and unnecessary angles. I never warmed-up to any of them in the same manner that I never appreciated the redesign of the various combat lights.


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## mr.squatch (Apr 7, 2012)

I finally picked one up on a local forum. To say their knives are overpriced and overrated is to completely ignore their line of flashlights  I got it brand new in box for $200 which was only achieved by talking four other people into a five way trade  It's excellent, far better than my expectations. I've only carried it for a couple days, but I expect to severely abuse it, and it would appear it will take what I can throw at it. For $450, no thanks, for what I paid, yes please! 




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