# Lacrosse BC-9009 versus BC-900: What differences, if any?



## DualMonitors (Apr 15, 2009)

Hello,

I've been trying to figure out what differences, if any, there are, between the "new" Lacrosse BC-9009 model, versus their current, around 2-3 year old model BC-900?

I cannot see any differences, besides the color of the plastic exterior.

Anyone knows of differences? Thx!


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## tabetha (Apr 15, 2009)

I looked at this yesterday, and also can't see a difference apart from colour.
tabetha


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 15, 2009)

from another forum I found this
http://www.minizracer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=342832#post342832

LA CROSSE TECHNOLOGY SUPPORT INFORMATION

Dear XXX,

Model Number: BC900 Charger

Please Refer to case number XXXXX in all future correspondence.

The only difference between the BC900 and the BC9009 is the color of the units.

Regards,

Michelle

Technical Support Representative
LaCrosse Technology
2817 Losey Boulevard S
LaCrosse, WI 54601


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## DualMonitors (Apr 15, 2009)

Thx for the info, LynxArc. However, i've called Lacrosse and, sorry to say, i found some of the folks who answered their calls to be uneducated in their own products.

One employee told me that the BC-700 is their follow up, later model, to the BC-900. I told her no, i do not believe so. I asked her to kindly double check, she sighed, returned and said that she's correct. 

I'm uncertain as to whether or not that it is really true that the BC-9009 is merely a color difference. To have a new SKU for a product is an additional hassle for a company - especially when there's no real need for a new SKU. Unless they ran out of the blue dye they used for the blue plastic for their BC-900, changing the SKU is just going to add work for the warehouse and inventory system. 

Somehow, i get the gut feeling that the manufacturer (in Asia) made some changes and they have not yet been fully communicated to Lacrosse in the US yet.

This is merely a speculation. I was hoping that the good, highly knowledgeable folks here might know something about this.


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## mighty82 (Apr 15, 2009)

The BC-700 is a newer model than the BC-900. It's newer, but cheaper and simpler, and it has lower charging current.


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## Marduke (Apr 15, 2009)

DualMonitors said:


> Thx for the info, LynxArc. However, i've called Lacrosse and, sorry to say, i found some of the folks who answered their calls to be uneducated in their own products.
> 
> One employee told me that the BC-700 is their follow up, later model, to the BC-900. I told her no, i do not believe so. I asked her to kindly double check, she sighed, returned and said that she's correct.





mighty82 said:


> The BC-700 is a newer model than the BC-900. It's newer, but cheaper and simpler, and it has lower charging current.



I believe the BC-700 was a later model, release with a lower current as a stopgap measure against the cases of melting BC-900's. Now that the BC-900 is fixed, the BC-700 is kinda of a odd duck, with no real place. I believe they are phasing it out.


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## tabetha (Apr 15, 2009)

I was told by my bud tonight that the lacrosse/technoline were of german manufacture, how true I don't know ?
tabetha


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## DualMonitors (Apr 15, 2009)

Marduke said:


> I believe the BC-700 was a later model, release with a lower current as a stopgap measure against the cases of melting BC-900's. Now that the BC-900 is fixed, the BC-700 is kinda of a odd duck, with no real place. I believe they are phasing it out.



ok, then what is the "new" BC-9009?

BC-900 versus BC-9009 differences, if any, please? it would be odd if the only difference is really merely the color. That is, to bother with shipping a new SKU, bothering with "new" inventory versus the "older" inventory, etc., merely to switch a color, is atypical. They could even have done a BC-900B (i.e. B for black color model) rather than call it BC-9009 if it really only has color as the only difference. I suspect that there are modifications, but the details have not yet filtered down from the manufacturer (in China) to the OEM buyers yet, i.e. Lacrosse.


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## Lynx_Arc (Apr 15, 2009)

my guess is they *think* the firmware is now bug free and decided to make a version that the model number (without checking firmware) is one they know will not have issues. There are a lot of BC900s out there but some of the older ones are quirky so if someone was having a problem they would have to take time to read the firmware where as if they had a 9009 the firmware would not be an issue (if they never find any more bugs and update it again. I am guessing the next update would be a 9010 model next year.


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## Beacon of Light (Apr 15, 2009)

How ironic to run across this thread here today. I was going to start a thread yesterday asking when or if Lacross was going to upgrade the BC900 considering it's been around for a few years now. The 3 I have are either v32 or v33. Did they ever come out with a v34 firmware?


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## SilverFox (Apr 15, 2009)

Hello Mighty82,

Your information is incorrect.

LaCrosse originally came out with the BC-700. This was upgraded to the BC-900.

They had some warehouses full of BC-700 that they unloaded, and the BC-700 re-emerged, but it is not a new product.

Tom


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## DualMonitors (Apr 15, 2009)

SilverFox said:


> Hello Mighty82,
> 
> Your information is incorrect.
> 
> ...



Whew! I'm vindicated by the guru. I knew I read it somewhere. Thank you for your verification, Tom/Mr. Silverfox.


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## jt4703 (Apr 15, 2009)

Beacon of Light said:


> How ironic to run across this thread here today. I was going to start a thread yesterday asking when or if Lacross was going to upgrade the BC900 considering it's been around for a few years now. The 3 I have are either v32 or v33. Did they ever come out with a v34 firmware?



V35 is out now (I got mine last month) but no idea how long it has been out.


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## Beacon of Light (Apr 15, 2009)

jt4703 said:


> V35 is out now (I got mine last month) but no idea how long it has been out.



That's good to know.


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## slipryd (Apr 26, 2009)

There is one other difference that I noticed between the 2 units, the BC-9009 will charge to a maximum of 2600 mah and the bc-900 will charge to a maximum of 3000 mah. I found that info in the pdf data files on the Lacrosse website for these 2 units....


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## Bones (Apr 26, 2009)

slipryd said:


> There is one other difference that I noticed between the 2 units, the BC-9009 will charge to a maximum of 2600 mah and the bc-900 will charge to a maximum of 3000 mah. I found that info in the pdf data files on the Lacrosse website for these 2 units....



Interesting, and you have to wonder why. Reducing the maximum output to 2600mAh essentially renders the BC-9009 incapable of fully charging higher capacity AA cells on a single charge.


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## Marduke (Apr 26, 2009)

slipryd said:


> There is one other difference that I noticed between the 2 units, the BC-9009 will charge to a maximum of 2600 mah and the bc-900 will charge to a maximum of 3000 mah. I found that info in the pdf data files on the Lacrosse website for these 2 units....



Link? I somehow doubt they would make such a foolish mistake.


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## Bones (Apr 26, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Link? I somehow doubt they would make such a foolish mistake.



Found them:

http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/900/manual.pdf

http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/9009/manual.pdf

For future reference, they're linked at the top of the respective LaCrosse.com product pages for each charger.


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## Black Rose (Apr 26, 2009)

Both PDFs indicate maximum charging capacity of 3000 mAh.

It's in the specification section.

The 2600 mAh value is in Table 1, which is simply an example of charging time.


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## Bones (Apr 27, 2009)

A heads-up for the owners of a LaCrosse charger.

While glancing through their respective manuals to locate their specifications, I noticed the manual for the BC-9009 is 35 pages longer than the manual for the BC-900.

Since all three LaCrosse chargers use essentially the same interface, the manual for the BC-9009 may provide additional information on the operation of both the BC-900 and BC-700.

Here are the hyperlinks to all three:

http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/700/manual.pdf

http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/900/manual.pdf

http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/9009/manual.pdf
.


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## TakeTheActive (Apr 27, 2009)

Bones said:


> A heads-up for the owners of a LaCrosse charger.
> 
> *While glancing through their respective manuals to locate their specifications, I noticed the manual for the BC-9009 is 35 pages longer than the manual for the BC-900...*


Sadly, IMHO, this is a VERY inaccurate, misleading statement:
The online manual for the BC-900 is formatted as *1* logical page per *1* physical page (8/8).
The online manual for the BC-9009 is formatted as *4* logical pages per *1* physical page (43/11).
FYI: The online manual for the BC-700 is formatted as *4* logical pages per *1* physical page (31/8).
Thus, the comparison solely based on number of pages is, for all intensive purposes (43 vs 8), invalid.



Bones said:


> ...Since all three LaCrosse chargers use essentially the same interface, the manual for the BC-9009 may provide additional information on the operation of both the BC-900 and BC-700...



Realistically (after a quick glance at both manuals, since the font is SO DAMN SMALL for my tri-focal eyeballs), La Crosse added a few pages of "*CMA*" 'Quick Summary' onto the end of the BC-900 Manual to create the BC-9009 Manual.

Sadly, again, with possibly the right hand not knowing what the left hand was doing, they omitted / removed the CRUCIAL (IMHO) portion from the BC-700 Manual about holding the MODE button in for *5* seconds instead of *1* second. And, they still insist on keeping 200mA as the DEFAULT Charging Current and NOT conditioning cells until after 10 uses. Thus, as the purchaser of a La Crosse BC-900 in Dec 2006 and a Maha Powerex MH-C9000 in Jan 2009, I have to vote for Maha as the better company / charger to buy.

Finally, IMHO, introducing the BC-9009, with NO notable / substantial improvements over the BC-900, is a BAD business decision. But, from personal experience with both the La Crosse BC-900 and the Maha MH-C9000, IMHO, the BC-900 is better suiter for OLDer, non-LSD cells (with its 'Repeat-Until-No-Improvement' DISCHARGE/REFRESH cycle and no IMPEDANCE CHECK - High Internal Resistance Lock-Out; IMHO, the 'NULL' Lock-Out is justified - that cell is already SCREWED!).



Bones said:


> ...Here are the hyperlinks to all three:


Thanks for the LINKs to the BC-700 and BC-9009. I added them to the MANUALs section of my Sig Line LINKs.


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## MarioJP (Sep 27, 2009)

Speaking of heating problems with this charger. How hot is too hot. I noticed when charging higher than 1000ma it gets hot on the bottom. Is that normal??

Firmware version is 35. I have 2 of these chargers and both have the same 35 version.


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## drmaxx (Sep 28, 2009)

*OffTopic answer*



MarioJP said:


> I noticed when charging higher than 1000ma it gets hot on the bottom. Is that normal??


Yes, this is normal. I usually place my charger vertical (place it on its narrow side) to improve airflow and cooling.
You should be able to touch the batteries anytime. If they are too hot to touch then you might have a problem.


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## gag (Nov 14, 2009)

I am a novice (new BC 9009 owner / user) seeking help. 

My understanding was that given any NimH battery, the charger would be able to display its present charge level in mah. I am not able to figure this out. It sems, the display during charging mode shows the accummulated charge level from the start of the charging process and not the actual charge level. Am I missing something?

Would appreciate help /tips.

Regards


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## Mr Happy (Nov 14, 2009)

gag said:


> My understanding was that given any NimH battery, the charger would be able to display its present charge level in mah. I am not able to figure this out. It sems, the display during charging mode shows the accummulated charge level from the start of the charging process and not the actual charge level. Am I missing something?




Hi, :welcome:

You have a misunderstanding here. No charger or battery tester is able to calculate or display the current charge level of a battery in mAh without actually discharging it to find out.

The way the BC9009 works when you want to test a battery is to charge the battery up fully and then discharge it before charging it again. The charger measures how much the discharge was and displays that at the end of the cycle.

The charger can also display the accumulated mAh during charging, but this should not be taken as a reliable indication of the battery capacity. Some charge is wasted during the charging processes and so the charge fed into a battery will be an overestimate of the actual stored charge.

Hope this helps.


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## MarioJP (Nov 14, 2009)

Also the accumulated charge just gives you an idea of how much charge was put into the battery. Now if some reason you had a power failure or accidentally the charger got disconnected, the accumulated charge resets, therefore I would not rely on it too much. I would monitor the voltage instead which that is more realistic of how much charge went in to the battery.


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 14, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> ...*I would monitor the voltage instead which that is more realistic of how much charge went in to the battery*.


The Peak Voltage when charging varies depending on:
Cell Construction / Manufacturer (SEARCH the CPF Archives for *Mr Happy's* posts on that topic)
*Reference: **Some details on Sanyo's "Peak-cut control" termination scheme*​
Cell Health (Internal Resistance)
DISCHARGE CAPACITY @ 0.2C is what I use to 'Match / Rate' my cells.


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## gag (Nov 15, 2009)

Thank you everyone for the responses.

It is very helpful

Regards


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 15, 2009)

gag said:


> *I am a novice (new BC 9009 owner / user) seeking help...
> 
> ...Would appreciate help /tips.*


Have you been reading the 'Help / Tips' located in the STICKY on the top of this forum's Index Page?

I'm especially partial to mine, , also available via my Sig Line LINK.


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## RaVeN38571 (Nov 18, 2009)

I thought I would everyone know that it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue. Happen to me today, charging 4 duraloops.


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 19, 2009)

RaVeN38571 said:


> I thought I would everyone know that it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue. Happen to me today, charging 4 duraloops.


 
Pictures? Specifics of the charging parameters you were using?


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## Light Sabre (Nov 19, 2009)

I have had 2 BC-900's version 3.2 firmware (the bad version supposedly) for a least 4 years. Haven't had any problems with it whatsoever. Makes me wonder what people are doing, or what kind of batteries (brand, age, mAh's, etc) that are causing the meltdowns. For AA's I always charge at 500ma or 700ma. AAA's at 200 ma. I don't leave batteries in the charger more that 12 hrs (usually) after completion of recharge. Chargers are in open air and on a hard flat surface so that they are well ventilated. My oldest NMH's are Rayovac 1000 mAh that I used in my first digital camera are recharged on the BC-900. They may be going on 10 years old. Don't remember exactly.

Just something to think about:

Is everyone using the AC adapter that came with the charger? Are they melting down in a high humidy environment? Low humidity environment? What's the ambient/room temperature? Do objects get placed on top of the unit when it's charging? Dusty environment? Near a computer monitor or tv set? Their magnetic fields may be affecting the charger.


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## Phantom502 (Nov 19, 2009)

RaVeN38571 said:


> I thought I would everyone know that it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue. Happen to me today, charging 4 duraloops.



I am curious as to what mA you charged at to get the meltdown and if you had any other problems with your charger.


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## Bones (Nov 20, 2009)

Light Sabre said:


> I have had 2 BC-900's version 3.2 firmware (the bad version supposedly) for a least 4 years. Haven't had any problems with it whatsoever. Makes me wonder what people are doing, or what kind of batteries (brand, age, mAh's, etc) that are causing the meltdowns. For AA's I always charge at 500ma or 700ma. AAA's at 200 ma. I don't leave batteries in the charger more that 12 hrs (usually) after completion of recharge. Chargers are in open air and on a hard flat surface so that they are well ventilated. My oldest NMH's are Rayovac 1000 mAh that I used in my first digital camera are recharged on the BC-900. They may be going on 10 years old. Don't remember exactly.
> 
> Just something to think about:
> 
> Is everyone using the AC adapter that came with the charger? Are they melting down in a high humidy environment? Low humidity environment? What's the ambient/room temperature? Do objects get placed on top of the unit when it's charging? Dusty environment? Near a computer monitor or tv set? Their magnetic fields may be affecting the charger.



While some of the incidents may well have been attributable to the situations you describe, others weren't. The following post by SilverFox sets down some of the potential causes:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post1224844

More:

http://search.google.com ... meltdown ... candlepowerforums.com
.


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 20, 2009)

RaVeN38571 said:


> ...*it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue*...


From my (extensive? ) reading of the CPF Archives (and the minimal amount of details provided), I would tend to favor '*MOSFET Failure*'.
*La Crosse BC-900 Meltdown Analysis (Technical) {2006}* - *willchueh* - (Maha Employee)
.
*BC-900 power supply discovery* - *jtr1962*


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## RaVeN38571 (Nov 20, 2009)

I don't have any pic because I already sent it back and I am getting the Maha c9000 instead. I only had the charger for 2 days. So here is what happen. I did normal charging on all my batteries. I put them in set it for 1000mah and everything went fine. Most of them were duraloops. On the last charge I decided to do a "refesh". I was only going to let it do a couple of cycles. I set it for 1000mah charge 500mah discharge, nothing crazy. So I came back 4 hours later, and I notice that part of the lcd screen was discolored. Kinda black on one side. Then I noticed that one of the buttons had sunk down into the charger. That when I unplugged it and took out the batteries. They were hot, but not to hot to handle. Also they don't seem to be overcharged. Bays 1 & 4 the batteries tested at 1.34v, 2 & 3 were at 1.25v. The consistency between the batteries is weird.:thinking:


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## Light Sabre (Nov 20, 2009)

Bones said:


> While some of the incidents may well have been attributable to the situations you describe, others weren't. The following post by SilverFox sets down some of the potential causes:
> 
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com ... post1224844
> 
> ...


 
I read some of the above posts. When I use my BC-900's I never charge at 1000ma or above. When I had fewer NMH's I would charge at 200 or 500ma. Now that I have a lot more batteries I charge at 500 or 700ma depending how soon I need them or to have the charge cycle completed by time I get home or wake up in the morning. 500ma is the one most often used for AA's. Have been using 200ma for AAA's, but may bump that up to 500 now. I will check and see what the battery and charger temps are at various points in the charge cycle especially towards the end. I will now cold boot the charger before each recharge cycle.


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 21, 2009)

Light Sabre said:


> ...*When I use my BC-900's I never charge at 1000ma or above. When I had fewer NMH's I would charge at 200 or 500ma. Now that I have a lot more batteries I charge at 500 or 700ma depending how soon I need them or to have the charge cycle completed by time I get home or wake up in the morning. 500ma is the one most often used for AA's. Have been using 200ma for AAA's, but may bump that up to 500 now*...


WHY? 

As I've posted *MANY* times before, *KNOWLEDGE* should surpass *RULES*! :thinking: *DON'T BE A LEMMING!!! 
*
CLICK on my Sig Line LINK and *READ*!  

Run '*THE EXPERIMENT*' (SEARCH for the LINK - I've posted it *MANY* times). Charge your cells at the HIGHEST CURRENT that *TERMINATES PROPERLY* and *DOESN'T OVERHEAT* the cells. Plain-and-simple...  If you want a slightly FULLER CHARGE, lower the Charge Rate a notch. *IF* they then don't terminate properly, too bad. Either raise it back up a notch, or use a timer, or *TOSS* / RECYCLE those cells. 

In my BC-900 v33, I've charged both OLD non-LSD and NEW LSD cells at *ALL* of the available charge currents without incident (i.e. well, really, I charge my *CRAP* cells at 700mA or less, and my ^GOOD^ cells at 700mA or more). IMHO (from reading the CPF 'Batteries Included' Archives), it's the '_marginal_' MOSFET that's the problem - *NOT* the Charge Rate, or the cells. :thinking:



Light Sabre said:


> ...*I will check and see what the battery and charger temps are at various points in the charge cycle especially towards the end. I will now cold boot the charger before each recharge cycle.*


WHY? 

*
------------------------------------------------------------*
*Greta*,

I agree. *Herding Cats* is *CERTAINLY* FRUSTRATING / UNREWARDING / FRUITLESS...

Thanks for that advice! :thumbsup:

*Reference: **Post #77*


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 21, 2009)

RaVeN38571 said:


> *I thought I would everyone know that it seems that the bc-9009 also has the melt down issue*...


Just out of curiosity, if you happen to own a VOM/DMM, what's the VAC at your outlet? :thinking:


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 21, 2009)

> When I use my BC-900's I never charge at 1000ma or above.


 


TakeTheActive said:


> WHY?
> 
> As I've posted *MANY* times before, *KNOWLEDGE* should surpass *RULES*! :thinking: ... Charge your cells at the HIGHEST CURRENT that *TERMINATES PROPERLY* and *DOESN'T OVERHEAT* the cells. Plain-and-simple...


 
TTA, when you point your finger at someone, remember there are three fingers pointing back at yourself. I think your comment above indicates you are becoming too strict a disciple of your own "rules." I think you go a little off the dogmatic deep end when you state to use "the _highest _current that terminates properly and doesn't overheat the cells." Light Sabre states that he has been using two BC-900's to charge his batteries at his stated rates for _four years _with "no problems whatsoever." _If_ his cells are terminating properly at 700 mA or even 500 mA on the BC-900, why _should _he use 1000 mA? It is understood that the reason the cell manufactures "recommend" 0.5C - 1C rate is to ensure the cell creates a large enough end-of-charge voltage drop for the charger to detect. To use any higher rate than necesary to achieve this subjects the cells to higher levels of heat unnecessarily. And the BC-900 does run hot at higher rates since it does not have nice, wide cell spacing like the C9000. How hot the cells run during charge also depends on ambient temperature. If I try to charge four tightly-packed Eneloops at 1000 mA on my BC-900, in my laundry room in the middle of summer when it is 90 degrees F in the room, the cells will try to blast past 127 degree F and the BC-900 will halt charging until it cools down. I also have a few ROV AAA Hybrids that failed to terminate at 200 mA, so now I just charge all the ROV AAA at 500 mA. The spacing of AAA is wider than AA, so heat does not become an issue as it can with four AA at 1000 mA. Maybe you charge in a nice cool room, and heat never becomes an issue at 1000 mA. But Light Sabre's cells are in good enough shape to trigger end-of-charge signal at 700 mA for AA or 200 mA for AAA, to imply he is somehow ignorant and demonstrating near-abuse to his cells by not charging at a higher rate is simply ludicrous.


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## Light Sabre (Nov 21, 2009)

Thanks Tubrbo DV8. I was going to reply to his message, but have been working lots of OT and wasn't going to respond to it until tonight but you beat me to it. You also said things better than I ever could. :thumbsup:


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## Notsobright (Nov 29, 2009)

I used to work in engineering change control in plastic injection molding shops that make similar parts such as the case of LaCrosse charger. FWIW: Changing colors with molded parts is the simplest thing to do. The only difficulty is then tracking what you make and where you use it. I'm not familiar with SKU's, but if LaCrosse specified a new color from their vendor then they are probably going to want to identify the different colored parts with unique p/n's. And then they would probably want to identify which final product has which color parts. I would guess this would be either a suffix change (BC-900 and BC-900b) or a minor rolling of the item number (BC-900 and BC-901). Now if they aren't going to roll the end item number but just track the firmware version number (BC-900 v32, BC-900 v33, etc.), then I doubt they are going to change the case color and roll it to BC-9009. To me this would be odd. To add a bit more confusion, the Pdf manual for the BC-9009 refers to the unit in some specification boxes as a 
BC-9009U. I'm not really sure what LaCrosse is doing. They seem to make a pretty good product but everyone there seems to be vague about what the thing really is. Until someone can make contact with a design engineer there, the mystery may continue. Generally those guys are real happy to talk about their product if you can communicate directly with them. Most people could care less about what engineers know or do so they are tickled pink to find someone interested in talking about their work.

I have a BC-900, V32 and always use 200ma charge and never have had any problems. I always use 200ma. thinking it is less stressful on my NiMH batteries. Am I doing it wrong by not using 500ma? I am unfamiliar with "end-of-charge voltage drop" and any associated problems. My first post here so thanks!


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 29, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> TTA, when you point your finger at someone, remember there are three fingers pointing back at yourself. I think your comment above indicates you are becoming too strict a disciple of your own "rules." *I think you go a little off the dogmatic deep end when you state to use "the highest current that terminates properly and doesn't overheat the cells."*...


Per your reply below, we agree on the above *GREEN* statement.



Turbo DV8 said:


> ...*And the BC-900 does run hot at higher rates since it does not have nice, wide cell spacing like the C9000.* How hot the cells run during charge also depends on ambient temperature. *If I try to charge four tightly-packed Eneloops at 1000 mA on my BC-900, in my laundry room in the middle of summer when it is 90 degrees F in the room, the cells will try to blast past 127 degree F and the BC-900 will halt charging until it cools down*...


Which, again, is what I've been stating all along. 

An example:
If CHARGING 4 AAs @ 1000mA gets TOO HOT, try:
4 AAs @ 700mA *OR*
2 AAs @ 1000mA (in Slots 1 & 4)

AS LONG AS THEY TERMINATE PROPERLY!



Turbo DV8 said:


> ...*The spacing of AAA is wider than AA, so heat does not become an issue as it can with four AA at 1000 mA*. Maybe you charge in a nice cool room, and heat never becomes an issue at 1000 mA...



Thus (including my FULL QUOTE):


TakeTheActive said:


> ...Charge your cells at the HIGHEST CURRENT that *TERMINATES PROPERLY* and *DOESN'T OVERHEAT* the cells. Plain-and-simple...  If you want a slightly FULLER CHARGE, lower the Charge Rate a notch. *IF* they then don't terminate properly, too bad. Either raise it back up a notch, or use a timer, or *TOSS* / RECYCLE those cells.


*IF* 700mA OR 500mA OR 200mA *ALL* TERMINATE PROPERLY, by all means, use whichever one you prefer, keeping in mind:
HIGH CHARGE Current -> SMALLER Crystals -> HIGHER MAX CURRENT available
.
LOW CHARGE Current -> LARGER Crystals -> LOWER MAX CURRENT available *AND* FULLER CHARGE
All choices involve trade-offs. *KNOWLEDGE* vs *RULES*.



Turbo DV8 said:


> ...I also have a few ROV AAA Hybrids that failed to terminate at 200 mA, so now I just charge all the ROV AAA at 500 mA...
> 
> ...*Light Sabre states that he has been using two BC-900's to charge his batteries at his stated rates for four years with "no problems whatsoever." If his cells are terminating properly at 700 mA or even 500 mA on the BC-900, why should he use 1000 mA?*
> 
> ...*But Light Sabre's cells are in good enough shape to trigger end-of-charge signal at 700 mA for AA or 200 mA for AAA, to imply he is somehow ignorant and demonstrating near-abuse to his cells by not charging at a higher rate is simply ludicrous.*



BUT, has he, or *ANY* of the other "*200mA Slow Charge Aficionados*" *EVER*:
CONFIRMED that their charger is TERMINATING PROPERLY at that current?
.
Posted their results from '*THE EXPERIMENT*'? 

Recall the recent member who INSISTED that he was getting 3.1Ah CAPACITY from his Duraloops:


BatteryCharger said:


> *I have a bunch of Duraloops that I've been measuring on my BC900 - I ran them all through one charge-discharge-charge cycle, and then started measuring capacity. Most are in the 2.4 - 3 amp hour range...*





Light Sabre said:


> Thanks Tubrbo DV8. *I was going to reply to his message, but have been working lots of OT and wasn't going to respond to it until tonight but you beat me to it. You also said things better than I ever could.* :thumbsup:


So, *Light Sabre*,
Have you run '*THE EXPERIMENT*'?
.
Are you also getting GT 2000mAh CAPACITIES from your Eneloops / Duraloops by CHARGING them @ 200mA?
*Turbo DV8*,

My goal here on the CPF Forums is to share the knowledge that I've learned. If I post something that's WRONG, *PLEASE* bring it to my attention. But, *IF* I post something that differs from your OPINION, well... :shrug:


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## MarioJP (Nov 30, 2009)

I have version 35 of this charger and i charge 4AA at 1amp. the charger does get quite warm to almost hot.

From what I seen is that good cells i can charge all 4 at 1amp. Crappy cells i am forced to charge at 500mA otherwise cells would overheat and trip the sensor.

But I am using version 35 and have 2 of these chargers. I also did a experiment of charging the cells at 200mA. I set it for the night and woke up the next day and the display all 4 cells says full.

So I am guessing version 35 might of fix the 200mA termination problem.


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## TakeTheActive (Nov 30, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> ...*I also did a experiment of charging the cells at 200mA. I set it for the night and woke up the next day and the display all 4 cells says full*...


So what? 

Was that FULL at:
2000mAh?
2100mAh?
2500mAh?
3000mAh?
3100mAh?
Run '*THE EXPERIMENT*' and post your results.



MarioJP said:


> ...*So I am guessing version 35 might of fix the 200mA termination problem.*



*How?*
.
*Why?*
.
IMHO, you don't UNDERSTAND the BC-900 / BC-9009 '*MOSFET Runaway Problem*'
Have you read my *GREEN* Sig Line LINK w/Keyword: *Theory*?

If not, IMHO, you should INVEST a few hours, because you would benefit GREATLY! :thumbsup:

P.S. IMHO, if cells don't TERMINATE PROPERLY on a BC-900 / BC-9009 @ 200mA w/v34 or less, v35 or greater isn't going to make any difference (unless they RADICALLY change some parameters and *SCREW* something else up).


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## MarioJP (Nov 30, 2009)

I am not talking about the mosfet problem. All I was saying about the firmware. Sure the MOSFET in theory could be a problem I don't know, all i know when i charge partially charged cells it does terminate and sometimes terminates between 200-700mah has been put into the cells, depending how much the discharge of the cells.

Now I haven't tested fully discharged cells because that would take quite awhile.

I only use 200mA when the cells are partially discharged.

So far I haven't had the MOSFET problem to the point it starts melting.

Only thing I notice with this charger is that the display flickers. Does that on both chargers too.


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## Turbo DV8 (Nov 30, 2009)

TakeTheActive said:


> BUT, has he, or *ANY* of the other "*200mA Slow Charge Aficionados*" *EVER*:
> 
> Posted their results from '*THE EXPERIMENT*'?
> So, *Light Sabre*,
> Have you run '*THE EXPERIMENT*'?


All I'm saying is that sometimes reading your posts is sort of like reading a can of PB Blaster.  But hey, the stuff does work, so who am I to argue with it?


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## PeAK (Nov 30, 2009)

MarioJP said:


> .
> .
> . all i know when i charge partially charged cells it does terminate and sometimes terminates between 200-700mah has been put into the cells, depending how much cells were discharged.
> .
> ...


Mario, you be a perfect candidate to perform a short test lasting about 20 minutes to confirm the validity of a battery/charger test that I'm running on this forum. In your case, you have known termination issues with your charger and thus you should find that ratio of charge put in is much higher than the charge taken out. The test illustrates how to calculate the partial discharge in mA-Hr.


PeAK


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## jayflash (Nov 30, 2009)

Might a variation in some aspect of overall QC or MOSFET specs cause the widely different charger experiences?

My old v32 has consistently, correctly and "coolly" charged new and marginal cells, even running four bays @ 1A. The cells and BC-900 never got more then warm. 

Line voltage is a consistent 117 - 123 vac, 65F ambient room temp & 30 - 70% humidity. Hopefully, my luck doesn't run out.


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## MarioJP (Dec 1, 2009)

PeAK said:


> Mario, you be a perfect candidate to perform a short test lasting about 20 minutes to confirm the validity of a battery/charger test that I'm running on this forum. In your case, you have known termination issues with your charger and thus you should find that ratio of charge put in is much higher than the charge taken out. The test illustrates how to calculate the partial discharge in mA-Hr.
> 
> 
> PeAK



Think I got a better idea. I have 4 Crappy blacktop duracells that I am going to leave overnight charging. Since the internal resistance on these cells are high I have no choice but to charge them at 200mA for 10 hours. At 500ma they get quite warm and almost hot in 2 hours.

At 1amp it trips the thermal sensor. These cells gets too hot.


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## Notsobright (Dec 5, 2009)

For those as skeptical as myself, I emailed LaCrosse for my own peace of mind. Here is what I got back:

LA CROSSE TECHNOLOGY SUPPORT INFORMATION
Dear Patrick,
Model Number: BC900 Charger
Please see the Knowledge Base Article that follows for assistance with your product.
Regards,
Brian
Technical Support Representative
LaCrosse Technology
2817 Losey Boulevard S
LaCrosse, WI 54601
Ph. (608) 782-1610
Toll Free (888) 211-1923

Compare BC900 & BC9009 KBA-01148-5H87DG Question What is the difference between the BC900 and the BC9009? Answer 
Many people are asking the difference between the BC900 and the BC9009. If you look at the features list you will see they have the same features. The model number change is due to the change in the color of the case. The BC900 is blue and the BC9009 is dark blue. 
You can compare these units at http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/9009/http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/9009/ and http://www.lacrossetechnology.com/900/
No exchanges are offered for a previously purchased model for a different version as the only difference is date of production. There is no benefit to a more recent version as opposed to a previous version.

I still think the actual numbers are odd unless they are going to start building a series such as 9002, 9003, etc. but that is a non issue at this point. So I accept it is just a case color change.

However the comment that there is no benefit to using a newer version number is puzzling and for my COD's, disturbing. There has to be some benefit somewhere or else there would have been no point in revising (improving?) the product. Twice. Because they build the charger with the ability to easily check the version number then it seems important to them to know which charger uses which verion. So there must be some difference in characteristics. Theoretically the versions could be different to allow easier manufacturing/assembly/testing with the firmware and truly be insignicant to end users. Did I mention my COD's?


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 5, 2009)

Let's assume the older units had a higher rate of failure, and it was coming back to bite them. Maybe they changed the color and gave it a different model number to preclude people from returning older failed units outside of the warranty period with newer purchase receipts. Now the receipts would say BC9009 and they could tell instantly from the receipt and the color, without even powering up the unit, if it was a shady return.


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## Notsobright (Dec 5, 2009)

They could have changed the item number to 9009 and left the color the same. The p/n on the bottom of the case clearly indicates what it is. This would prevent any shady returns. They could have decided it would be less confusing to start selling a new color with a new p/n. But this only caused confusion for some of us. They rolled the firmware version number twice with little fanfare and unbeknown to most consumers. Now if they really wanted to upgrade to a better built unit with a lower fail rate then they still haven't done it right. They are selling both units side by side rather than exhaust all inventories of the old model number before introducing the new version. There will always be some overlap. But if it goes on for some period of time then it would be odder still. Who knows what they are doing or intended to do.

My only disappoint is my v32 model won't burst into flame and melt down into a gooey mess forcing me to have to buy a new blue 9009 v35 model for Christmas.


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 6, 2009)

Notsobright said:


> They could have changed the item number to 9009 and left the color the same. _The p/n on the bottom of the case clearly indicates what it is. This would prevent any shady returns_.


 
If someone wanted to be shady, four tiny screws and 60 seconds to swap out the bottom cover isn't going to phase him in the least. La Crosse's official explanation notwithstanding, I assure you the color is not the only difference between the old and new units. An extra tiny tab molded inside here, an offset protrusion there, all of which - surprise, surprise - puts a real damper on swapping the guts. Or so I've heard ...


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## Notsobright (Dec 7, 2009)

I have no knowledge about anyone being shady or LaCrosse attempting to circumvent this. Are you implying you know of other differences then the previously discussed color of the unit's lower case half? Can we assume all BC-9009 units are v.35?


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 7, 2009)

Notsobright said:


> Are you implying you know of other differences then the previously discussed color of the unit's lower case half?


 
I wasn't implying it. See my last post again.


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## RaVeN38571 (Dec 7, 2009)

could it be possible that the different color plastic is cheaper to manufacture or easier to source? Even if it just saved them a penny a unit it would add up after a while.


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## MarioJP (Dec 8, 2009)

Despite of this charger having flaws. I do like it over the maha charger though. I am guessing the difference between 900 and 9009 is better thermal sensor??.

When the batteries gets hot the charger stops charging.


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## Notsobright (Dec 8, 2009)

RaVeN38571 said:


> could it be possible that the different color plastic is cheaper to manufacture or easier to source? Even if it just saved them a penny a unit it would add up after a while.


 
I opened my BC-900 case to examine it. The parts are very well made. Plastic is relatively cheap and the choice of color should be insignificant. Raw plastic is available world wide. And in China they probably make a lot of the raw plastic consumed there. They'll mold 4 or 5 thousand parts per batch to keep the set ups costs down. The material cost is low compared to the labor. The molding machine has to be set up, and later torn down and then the mold gets cleaned and inspected. The parts have to sent to be pad printed with nomenclature and then packaged for shipment. The surface of the mold is stipled which gives the case a nice grainy pebble finish. Quality work indeed.


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## smoeke (Dec 29, 2009)

hi,i have been reading a bunch of info on here, now i have decided to join and ask a question...

i just bought a 9009, on the bottom it says bc-9009 and v 32?

from reading i thought v32 was for the old bc-900's?

anyone know what i got exactly?

thanks
Mike


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## Turbo DV8 (Dec 29, 2009)

What number does the display flash in the right bay display when you first power it up?


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## smoeke (Dec 30, 2009)

Turbo DV8 said:


> What number does the display flash in the right bay display when you first power it up?




ohhh!
it says 35,,so what does v32 on bottom case mean?

thanks


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## Notsobright (Dec 31, 2009)

You have to understand the manufacturing process. The people in the US are ordering these units from China. Whoever is in charge of this in China is going to subcontract to a plastics molding shop for cases. Someone there has to be aware of what the current design is, what they want, and which version of pad printing they want. Everytime something changes they have to order new tooling and then coordinate which parts are built using new tooling or old. They may have old parts that have useable but obsolete nomenclature. What I am really trying to say is this is difficult to organize and execute all this smoothly even when it's all done under one roof. It is probably easier to mark the current firmware with the appropriate version number than a piece of plastic built elsewhere.

I think LaCross makes an excellent charger. I think you have their most current model. I have no idea if they spec in this product from a contract vendor who builds it for them or if they are distributing them for a good vendor in China who initiated the design of this device. They do some quirky things. However they do it, they still sell a great product.


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## Elliot (Dec 31, 2009)

I don't think the case Vxx number has anything to do with the software "version" number that we usually speak of here on CPF. I bought two BC-900's (v-33) about three years ago - they both had a "V12" on the bottom of the case.:thinking:


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## NutSAK (Dec 31, 2009)

Elliot said:


> I don't think the case Vxx number has anything to do with the software "version" number that we usually speak of here on CPF. I bought two BC-900's (v-33) about three years ago - they both had a "V12" on the bottom of the case.:thinking:



I'd say you're right. My v.33 also says V 12 on the bottom.


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## smoeke (Dec 31, 2009)

ok.thanks everyone for the input


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## Brownstone (Jan 7, 2010)

DualMonitors said:


> ok, then what is the "new" BC-9009?
> 
> BC-900 versus BC-9009 differences, if any, please? it would be odd if the only difference is really merely the color. That is, to bother with shipping a new SKU, bothering with "new" inventory versus the "older" inventory, etc., merely to switch a color, is atypical. They could even have done a BC-900B (i.e. B for black color model) rather than call it BC-9009 if it really only has color as the only difference. I suspect that there are modifications, but the details have not yet filtered down from the manufacturer (in China) to the OEM buyers yet, i.e. Lacrosse.



The phrase "filtered down ... to the OEM buyers yet, i.e. Lacrosse." implies that there is at least one other buyer than Lacrosse.

Has anybody encountered this exact same charger sold under any name other than Lacrosse?


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## TakeTheActive (Jan 7, 2010)

Brownstone said:


> ...*Has anybody encountered this exact same charger sold under any name other than Lacrosse?*


IIRC, a CPF member (Tabetha?) owns a 'European' version.

And, I believe someone posted an "IPC" version with pictures in the current 'BC-9009 Meltdown' thread.

What I don't remember is if 'Tabetha' owns an "IPC", but you could SEARCH the 'Batteries Included' Archives (or PM him/her)... :thinking:


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## Brownstone (Jan 7, 2010)

TakeTheActive said:


> And, I believe someone posted an "IPC" version with pictures in the current 'BC-9009 Meltdown' thread.



Found it - Thanks!


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## asdfasdq4gq (Jul 9, 2010)

Hey guys,

i'm from Germany and YES there are various "version" respectively brands:

LaCrosse BC700/900
Technoline BC 700/900 (http://www.technoline.de/katalog.php?kat=15)
Voltcraft IPC-1 (=BC900) (http://www.voltcraft.de/index.php?site=home)
Voltcraft IPC-1L (=BC700)
AccuPower/AccuLoop IQ-128 (http://accupower.de/iq128.php)
Akku-Doktor BC 700
BC700-Charger (without brand)
...

BUT: there's no difference except the branding on the device and in my mind neither LaCrosse nor Technoline/Voltcraft/AccuPower/Akku-Doktor/... is the inventor/manufacturer of this device but any company in Asia which sells its products under various brands. This happens so often and i'm sure that there are some more "brands" who sell this device with their branding on it!


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## MarioJP (Jul 9, 2010)

One thing I never understood about this charger is the firmware. Whats the difference between 32 and 35?? I can't seem to find any info about firmwares.


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## asdfasdq4gq (Jul 9, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> One thing I never understood about this charger is the firmware. Whats the difference between 32 and 35?? I can't seem to find any info about firmwares.



suggestion: there was a bug - they fixed it. --> new firmware number. Where's the problem?

Why should they give you a list with improvements they made? Thats not a computer program


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## 45/70 (Jul 9, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> One thing I never understood about this charger is the firmware. Whats the difference between 32 and 35?? I can't seem to find any info about firmwares.



Well, I'm not sure which revision did what, but one of them beyond V32 lowered the temperature at which the charger will pause to let the cells cool down if they're getting really hot. Another revision dealt with the resetting of the charger frequently, whenever there was the slightest fluctuation in mains power (I live in a rural area, and this is quite common here).

I have a V32. nikiwind had a solution in this thread, for the resetting problem, so I installed a tantalum capacitor to fix that. The temperature problem, I helped some by reheatsinking the thermistors. It is still capable of getting cells too hot, but is better. This mostly only happens with cells that are really old and at, or near EOL anyway, so not that big of a deal.

Dave


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## core (Jul 10, 2010)

asdfasdq4gq said:


> Thats not a computer program



It's not? I don't speak german, but "computer program" in English means, well, "computer program". By the way, there are secret little computers running in the LaCrosse 700. I'm afraid it affects the 900 too. They are called microprocessors.



asdfasdq4gq said:


> suggestion: there was a bug - they fixed it. --> new firmware number. Where's the problem?



A bug... like it causes my family to go on fire? I dunno, I hate to use words like "right" or "entitled", but if I'm a proud owner of a v32 I think I'd "want" to know what was changed.

And since you seem to have signed up for the sole purpose of resurrecting a 5 month old thread about this charger (which I love, btw), I thought you might have answers for a few of these things. Whose payroll are you on? 

I think 45/70 gave you a very good answer for why folks would want to know what they have.


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## Turbo DV8 (Jul 10, 2010)

MarioJP said:


> One thing I never understood about this charger is the firmware. Whats the difference between 32 and 35??


 
Ooh! Me, me, me! I know, I know!

3?

:duck:


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## asdfasdq4gq (Jul 12, 2010)

core said:


> By the way, there are secret little computers running in the LaCrosse 700. I'm afraid it affects the 900 too. They are called microprocessors.



Are you sure?  I thought there would be tiny creatures with slide-rules in?!!:duh2: I'm very disappointed now my friend. I'll return my BC700.



core said:


> And since you seem to have signed up for the sole purpose of resurrecting a 5 month old thread about this charger (which I love, btw), I thought you might have answers for a few of these things. Whose payroll are you on?



Sorry for replying to "Brownstone's" post which wasn't answered sufficiently - now it is. :fail:


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## KWagle (Sep 4, 2010)

The BC900 seems to be out of stock at both Lacrosse and Thomas while the BC9009 is in stock everywhere for $40-ish. I'm wondering if the 900 is history and if I should grab a 9009 while I can...


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## Beacon of Light (Sep 17, 2010)

My v.32 BC-900 finally melted cells causing a leakage from a AAA Ray-O-Vac 4.0 and bulging wrappers on 3 Duraloop AAs. I was charging at 500mAh so no biggie but when I went to check on the cell in an hour I was wondering why the display was static (frozen) and not changing. I pressed the buttons and nothing happened. Felt the cells and they were extremely hot to touch. I unplugged it immediately and then when it cooled I noticed the wrappers were deformed and shrivelled. The casing itself was bulged and who knows if I was away out of the house for a few hours what would have occured?

I called La Crosse for a technician a few days ago and today they called. Michelle was her name and she got defensive right off the bat. Saying there is no record of my purchase and it was more than 2 years old (which I agreed) so it was out of warranty and then she actually said the Duracell (precharged) "Duraloops" are what caused the meltdown as they need a special charger. I called her bluff and told her she was misinformed and that the Duraloops were Eneloops in Duracell wrappers and I have been using both Eneloops and Duraloops and many others on the LaCrosse charger for years without incident. All I really wanted was an acknowledgment that there were problems with this version (v.32) especially but she just blamed the cells. I then told her of numerous threads of users documenting these meltdowns that spans years on more than 1 website (Amazon, CPF etc.) and she said there was only 1 website (Which she conveniently wasn't able to find out what site it was when I asked her to find out) documenting isolated cases of only 12 problems. That's when I asked for her manager as she was completely clueless and outright lieing. She is sending instructions to my email of returning it and she told me more than twicethere was no guarantee they will replace the unit if they determine batteriers caused the problem. I'm just wondering if it's even worth it to spend the $$$ to ship it out to them if they will just blame the batteries. I already have 2 Maha C9000s I am happy with but I would miss the LaCrosse if they just keep it or send back the defective unit. Odd thing is the charger still works normal now but I'm afraid to use it for a second meltdown event.


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## tandem (Sep 17, 2010)

Beacon of Light said:


> and then she actually said the Duracell (precharged) "Duraloops" are what caused the meltdown as they need a special charger.



Funny she would say that given the La Crosse website specifically states "_Works with *all* NiCd and NiMH “AA” and “AAA” Rechargeable Batteries_" more than once in its promotional literature for the device.

(emphasis on "all" added by me)


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## Beacon of Light (Sep 17, 2010)

I could tell by the way she was talking she had no clue what she was talking about but rather seemed "trained" to say that which is a huge FAIL on part of a company to try to mislead the customer like this.


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## tandem (Sep 17, 2010)

I know what you mean about detecting the company line on problems from tech reps. I really don't get La Crosse's customer service attitude when it comes to these sorts of issues. I've never bought one of their products; reports from you and others (plus the failure nature itself) have ensured I never will.


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## Mr Happy (Sep 17, 2010)

tandem said:


> I know what you mean about detecting the company line on problems from tech reps. I really don't get La Crosse's customer service attitude when it comes to these sorts of issues. I've never bought one of their products; reports from you and others (plus the failure nature itself) have ensured I never will.


I think somehow the BC-900 is the ugly child in their product line-up. I recently bought a La Crosse radio controlled clock and the design and manufacturing quality seems fine enough. Likewise, their weather products always look fine to me. I guess La Crosse is not really in the battery business...


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## MarioJP (Sep 17, 2010)

I agreed. That's bad customer service on their part. She should be fired.


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## Colorblinded (Sep 17, 2010)

I've got one of those LaCrosse weather stations and while it seems cheaper than the BC-900 I've had for at least a couple years I am not worried about it bursting in to flames like the BC-900 supposedly might! I still use my BC-900 (firmware 33) but I do most of my charging on my Maha C801D that I got maybe 6 months ago. Just got a Maha C9000 that was on sale as well.

I like the BC-900 though and I've never been terribly concerned using it and will certainly continue to do so but only when I need certain features it offers or need to charge more at once. If I am traveling I'm more likely to drag the BC-900 along if I need a quick and flexible charger since it's smaller than the C9000 or C801D.


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## Beacon of Light (Sep 17, 2010)

Here are a few pics displaying the deformed and now humped chassis body. You can see the third slot where the battery leaked and underneath the 2nd and 3rd slot is the bulge.


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## Beacon of Light (Sep 19, 2010)

Any thoughts on the bulge and if this is typical of the other meltdowns in the past? It is odd as this has the replacement power adapter I got way back when during the initial faulty adapters (the unit wouldn't power on consistently) when they were just faulty not even related to this safety hazard of causing meltdowns.


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## Mikl1984 (Mar 19, 2011)

Difference became more visible with new PCB and FW37 from 2010 La-Crosse-changed-design-BC-9009


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## jalyst (Apr 3, 2011)

So as I understand it from reading this thread,

The 9009 has now completely supplanted the 900, & any revisions (since fw 34) to fw/pcb are done only to it?
And the only other difference between it & the 900, is that they're different colours?

How does the BC-1000 differ to both of them?


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## jalyst (Apr 5, 2011)

......


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## jalyst (Apr 7, 2011)

......


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## jalyst (Apr 8, 2011)

jalyst said:


> So as I understand it from reading this thread,
> 
> The 9009 has now completely supplanted the 900, & any revisions (since fw 34) to fw/pcb are done only to it?
> And the only other difference between it & the 900, is that they're different colours?
> ...



I guess no one knows...


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## bleagh (Jun 7, 2011)

Well several sites are now listing the BC-1000 as a special order item (they don't have any in stock).

amazon.com has it listed as 'in stock' but they want $89.95...


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