# Check out the new Maratac Nichia AAA Copper!



## Nichia! (Mar 14, 2017)

Believe it or not, 4 months ago or so I talked to countycomm about making copper Nichia aaa and they did it! 

Cheers to them..


https://countycomm.com/collections/aaa-flashlights/products/copper-maratac-aaa-flashlight-rev-3


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## Johnnyh (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks for the heads up! Looks nice...like that they went to L-M-H. Glow o-ring n head, new reflector, stronger clip...nichia 219 at 138 lumens for 70 minutes? I'm all in on it!


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## Toolboxkid (Mar 14, 2017)

Thanks for the heads up! Just ordered one.


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## Mobileschoney (Mar 14, 2017)

Agreed, thanks for the heads up!


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## ronniepudding (Mar 14, 2017)

I'm slightly suspicious of the advertised run time / output, but the LMH order sounds great, and of course N219 is excellent. Can't wait to hear owners impressions.


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## Nichia! (Mar 14, 2017)

ronniepudding said:


> I'm slightly suspicious of the advertised run time / output, but the LMH order sounds great, and of course N219 is excellent. Can't wait to hear owners impressions.



Yeah exactly, there's no such thing as 138 lumens for 70 minutes with Nichia! That's the only downside of Nichia's LED


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## Nichia! (Mar 14, 2017)

Toolboxkid said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Just ordered one.



I ordered 2
They are really nice mini gems..


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## gunga (Mar 15, 2017)

Are we sure it's l-m-h? No pwm?


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 15, 2017)

Only available in copper?


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## MAD777 (Mar 15, 2017)

Just submitted my order. 
Thanks!


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## Str8stroke (Mar 15, 2017)

Yeah, thats a winner for sure. Great package.


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## kreisl (Mar 15, 2017)

okay let's do massdrop for this model


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## Nichia! (Mar 15, 2017)

Just saw the new titanium version with Nichia!


https://countycomm.com/collections/...a-titanium-nichia-flashlight-by-maratac-rev-4


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## LightObsession (Mar 15, 2017)

Is this a twisty operation?


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 15, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> Just saw the new titanium version with Nichia!
> 
> 
> https://countycomm.com/collections/...a-titanium-nichia-flashlight-by-maratac-rev-4


Yea, but it's AA, not AAA.


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## Wicho (Mar 15, 2017)

Ooo...I hadn't realized the titanium one was a AA light. I don't mind the extra size for extra runtime and had been wanting a AA version. I'm glad you pointed that out.


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## markr6 (Mar 15, 2017)

"After thousands of Requests it's new user interface is: "Low / Medium / High"

I like it!


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## TMedina (Mar 15, 2017)

LightObsession said:


> Is this a twisty operation?



Yup.


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## LightObsession (Mar 15, 2017)

TMedina said:


> Yup.



Bummer.


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## gunga (Mar 15, 2017)

I'm curious. But if the ti AA driver is like the copper Rev 4 AA driver it has nasty low frequency pwm.


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## jon_slider (Mar 15, 2017)

LightObsession said:


> Bummer.


LOL
I take it you want a clicky version?:


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## LightObsession (Mar 15, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> LOL
> I take it you want a clicky version?:



Yep. I don't do twisties. Usually go with aluminum, also, for the lighter weight for when the 1AAA light is clipped onto the hat brim, shirt pocket or somewhere else on the shirt or clothing. I often activate lights while they're clipped on something, so clickies work better for me. 

I'd really like that Maratac right angle 1AAA light with a clickie.


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## jon_slider (Mar 15, 2017)

LightObsession said:


> I'd really like that Maratac right angle 1AAA light with a clickie.


You could buy an Aluminum Tool, and Lego the right angle Maratac head onto it.


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## LightObsession (Mar 15, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> You could buy an Aluminum Tool, and Lego the right angle Maratac head onto it.



They're already expensive enough without paying for two to get one that I'll use. I don't have to funds for that type of messing around - I wish I did.


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## dhunley1 (Mar 15, 2017)

Two of the copper AAAs on order. One for me, one for my coworker.


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## J Smith (Mar 16, 2017)

Just ordered the AA Ti Maratac. First Nichia 219. In their pic it looks very yellow,hope it is not.


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## jon_slider (Mar 16, 2017)

historical trivia, the knurling is becoming flatter and smoother over time, I suspect that contributes to the price drop

here is a lego
body from April 2015, head from March 2017
the old knurling was really gnarly, and for my delicate hands was too sharp. I actually sanded it down a bit





detail of the newest knurling, it feels very smooth, I like it fine, as I dont have any problem with slipping and actually like smooth feeling. These lights are like jewelry for me, Im not looking to use them in slippery conditions


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## gunga (Mar 16, 2017)

That's pretty cool info. I love grippy knurling so the older models are better for me.


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## chillinn (Mar 16, 2017)

gunga said:


> That's pretty cool info. I love grippy knurling so the older models are better for me.



I do, too. Thing is, the material is copper. Even if that knurling was sharp enough new to cut your skin, in three weeks of use, carrying or less, it would be smoothish and dull. I like to remind jon_slider of this and give him a little  grief for sanding down copper knurling... that's almost like dumping salt on your meal before tasting it to see how salty it is initially. 

tl;dr the grippy copper knurling wears to reasonably smooth rapidly with normal handling and use, no pre-emptive sanding modifications necessary. Can't speak to other materials, but copper is soft, soft, soft.


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## phosphor22 (Mar 16, 2017)

gunga said:


> That's pretty cool info. I love grippy knurling so the older models are better for me.



I like the grippy knurling too. darn.


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## jon_slider (Mar 16, 2017)

chillinn said:


> the grippy copper knurling wears to reasonably smooth rapidly with normal handling and use


LoL! Baloney 
I dont salt my food, and I did taste my knurling before sanding it. It has NOT changed, at all in 2 years of pocket carry. It gets its own pocket, not knocking about with keys and change. Did I mention I treat it like jewelry?

for people who want sharp knurling, consider the TiTool, it has crosshatch, like the Tain.. what I call a poor finishing process, where they leave all the radial scars from the machining step before applying the crosshatch.. Yes, I definitely sanded my TiTool too , but then, I have delicate hands.. from sitting at a computer all day

ymmv, but my knurling does not


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## J888www (Mar 16, 2017)

LightObsession said:


> They're already expensive enough without paying for two to get one that I'll use. I don't have to funds for that type of messing around - I wish I did.


....or you could just buy 1 Tool Ti with a Nichia.

http://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_326612.html

.....*electronic metallic tail switch.....

*Although the Lumins aren't as high as the Maratac (if the figures are correct) it can be purchased outside the US of A at reasonable costs.

If you prefer copper instead of Titanium then there's this one...

http://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_270370.html?wid=21


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## J888www (Mar 16, 2017)

markr6 said:


> "After thousands of Requests it's new user interface is: "Low / Medium / High"
> 
> I like it!




Not according to the Site's Specifications details....."*Now with 3 levels of brightness ( Medium / Low / High ).*"


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## LightObsession (Mar 16, 2017)

I prefer aluminum for AAA for the lightness and heat dissipation.

I also want low-med-high mode sequence with direct access to low from off and preferably a good reversible clip that can cap mount.

Copper is too heavy and Ti doesn't dissipate heat well enough.


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## jon_slider (Mar 16, 2017)

re the LMH modes:


J888www said:


> Not according to the Site's Specifications details....."





J888www said:


> *Now with 3 levels of brightness ( Medium / Low / High ).*"




read the whole page and you will see they contradict themselves, so, who are you going to believe? Im waiting for someone to receive their light and report which is right. Countycomm is not known for the accuracy of they cut and paste updates



LightObsession said:


> Copper is too heavy and Ti doesn't dissipate heat well enough.




then you are in the wrong thread  Its about a Copper twisty
there IS an Aluminum tool w Nichia on Amazon, but not LMH, and no sideways head
what you want, and what you can afford are clearly mutually exclusive



J888www said:


> Although the Lumins aren't as high as the Maratac (if the figures are correct)


I doubt the Maratac figures are even remotely correct to begin with, much less with a Nichia

I did buy a copper Tool w Nichia from Gearbest recently, (it took 21 days to reach California) it has the unregulated, inefficient driver, like my Maratac. I really like the Nichia in my CuTool, and Im betting the exact same knurling and LED will be in the Maratac rev4

but, Im waiting for someone to buy me one so I can confirm the mode lumens, regulation, and lack of PWM , 

the Rev4 AA has "nasty PWM" according to gunga, who tolerates fast PWM, so if he says nasty, it means .. I will pass. That was the first reason I did not buy the AA Copper Maratac when it was available recently.. And while Im telling it like it is, I wont buy a Ti Twisty, the threads are gritty. Ti is best suited to clickies imo


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## snowlover91 (Mar 16, 2017)

I'll be sure to report the mode sequence and look for PWM when I receive mine! I actually find my AAA Maratac twisty has smoothed out a good bit over time and with the use of "super lube" on the threads. Seems to really help.


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## Thetasigma (Mar 16, 2017)

Always a Nichia fan I was interested when I saw the AAA with Nichia, but the AA caught my eye instead as I have never gotten around to putting a useable LED into my rev2 Copper AA.
Have to see if the driver is PWM free or not, and hopefully they are Nichia 219Cs, I've been real pleased with the 4000k 219Cs I've dealt with so far.

Grade 5 titanium with properly cut threads can be pretty smooth, poorly cut and they are like sandpaper.


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## chillinn (Mar 16, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> LoL! Baloney
> I dont salt my food, and I did taste my knurling before sanding it. It has NOT changed, at all in 2 years of pocket carry. It gets its own pocket, not knocking about with keys and change. Did I mention I treat it like jewelry?
> 
> ymmv, but my knurling does not



Fair enough, j_s! Your hands must be baby soft. I always get complaints about my finger tips and knuckles being too scratchy. I must know: what lotion do you use? :naughty:

You know I'm just teasing!
I probably have some kind of digital fixation. My light is in my hand whether it is being used or not more often than pocket, and I tend to twirl it around my fingers and palm, probably rubbing off the copper knurling faster than most. Aluminum hosts hold their knurling, but maybe it's only me that can smooth out the copper knurling with my calloused hands.


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## J Smith (Mar 16, 2017)

Just saw a new countycomm youtube vid. The AAA copper is MLH and the AA Ti is LMH


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## Thetasigma (Mar 16, 2017)

J Smith said:


> Just saw a new countycomm youtube vid. The AAA copper is MLH and the AA Ti is LMH



Just watched the youtube video as well, rather disappointed with the AA Ti, appears to have slow PWM on the medium mode. Have to see how bad it is when they arrive.


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## gunga (Mar 17, 2017)

If it's anything like the latest copper, it's terrible. It does fit a ReyLight Pineapple driver though. That one is 4 levels with pwm around 2-3KHz. Not bad. Ask phosphor22.


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## jon_slider (Mar 17, 2017)

chillinn said:


> Your hands must be baby soft.
> ...what lotion do you use? :naughty:
> ...
> You know I'm just teasing!
> I probably have some kind of digital fixation.


Yes
I have naturally smooth skin… rotfl
Yes
yes you do, its not normal.. but the extra copper in your low salt diet is good for you.. LOL



J Smith said:


> Just saw a new countycomm youtube vid. The AAA copper is MLH and the AA Ti is LMH



thanks for the heads up, very helpful

I see they updated the text on the AAA copper page, to be correct with the video:
before it said
"After thousands of Requests it's new user interface is: "Low / Medium / High"
now it says
"After thousands of Requests it's new user interface is: "Medium / Low / High"."

I dont trust the lumen specs, but the video answers the mode sequence question for me
my speculation, until someone educates me otherwise:
the AAA Copper Maratac w Nichia is using an identical no pwm head, MLH driver, and LED, as the CuTool, 
and the Ti AA lights use the same LMH driver as the CuAA and alum AA, all w PWM (even though the low mode specs dont match on paper)..


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## Nichia! (Mar 17, 2017)

Check this out 

https://youtu.be/eD8N3LMID3c


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 17, 2017)

J888www said:


> ....or you could just buy 1 Tool Ti with a Nichia.
> 
> http://www.gearbest.com/led-flashlights/pp_326612.html
> 
> ...


I'm selling mine if interested. New and never carried.


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## Nichia! (Mar 17, 2017)

The AA has PWM on low and medium


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## phosphor22 (Mar 17, 2017)

gunga said:


> If it's anything like the latest copper, it's terrible. It does fit a ReyLight Pineapple driver though. That one is 4 levels with pwm around 2-3KHz. Not bad. Ask phosphor22.



Yes - gunga modded my AA Cu (Nichia 219B 4000K - it is a really beautiful beam in terms of tint and profile) with the ReyLight driver - the only problem is a slightly weak spring which allows a little mode skipping every now and then. 

Recently added thought: the mode skipping is infrequent. IMO this is one great light (I personally love the really low low and the slightly floody beam) with the pineapple driver and 4000K LED - thanks gunga


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## LeanBurn (Mar 17, 2017)

Wonder where they source their diffuser? Its too bad its tinted green.


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## jon_slider (Mar 17, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> Wonder where they source their diffuser? Its too bad its tinted green.



its only green for a little while after it has been on and then is turned off, its glow in the dark green. the source is CountyComm 
pictured here before turning the light on to charge the glow. all pics taken by a window at 11am on a sunny day






on medium:





and right after turning off (green glow barely noticeable during the day, its only green in the dark)





or:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?343130-Diffuser-for-a-Maratac-AAA-Cu

personally, I dont use diffusers as I dont like the light shining in my eyes.. When not using the beam directly, I prefer to bounce the light off the ceiling or a wall


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## ronniepudding (Mar 17, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> I see they updated the text on the AAA copper page, to be correct with the video:
> before it said
> "After thousands of Requests it's new user interface is: "Low / Medium / High"
> now it says
> "After thousands of Requests it's new user interface is: "Medium / Low / High"."



Too bad about the MLH order on the AAA Copper Nichia Maratac, but frankly I'm not surprised that they stuck with their usual design. I've been eyeing the Maratac AAA Cu twisties for a couple of years now... since I have several Lumintop AAA lights that are functionally very similar, I haven't been able to justify spending lots more $ just to get some knurling and a little, rubber diffuser.  

The addition of Nichia 219 plus LMH mode order might have gotten me there... 



jon_slider said:


> I dont trust the lumen specs, but the video answers the mode sequence question for me
> my speculation, until someone educates me otherwise:
> the AAA Copper Maratac w Nichia is using an identical no pwm head, MLH driver, and LED, as the CuTool...



If it ends up having no PWM and an efficient driver -- meaning fully regulated on high, with output/runtimes like a Lumintop CU Nichia *Worm* -- then I might be tempted anyway. If, however, it turns out that Jon is right and it's the same inefficient driver as the Lumintop Tool, then I'm definitely not interested.


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## jon_slider (Mar 17, 2017)

ronniepudding said:


> I haven't been able to justify spending lots more $ just to get some knurling and a little, rubber diffuser.



how about half as much money, for smoother knurling, Plus a reversible pocket clip 

fwiw, the CuWorm has no pocket clip at all, and it is also MLH

you could put the Worm head on the Maratac (but vice versa does not work)





the only LMH AAA w Nichia and NoPWM I can think of atm is the L08 (and it has a reversible pocket clip, plus a choice of 3 or 4 modes).. it is NOT regulated on High though, if thats a priority..

the Manker E01 Copper is also LMH, but again no pocket clip.. and not regulated on High either


_UPz said:


>



trivia, Some Maratacs have the MLH CuWorm driver (but no Nichia), here is one:
http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1097100#comment-1097100


Coppet said:


> I think I get lucky with the Maratac driver, I gave it a try with a full loaded Eneloop and the Maratac runs for 42 min. with constant brightness. After this its getting darker and runs till 55 min….
> Maratac AAA 3.5


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## Toolboxkid (Mar 17, 2017)

Just received the rev4 Maratac. Mode sequence m-l-h and it seems to have almost identical output as my copper tool w/nichia which is roughly 80 lumens. I like the light, and the mode sequence is ok, but not the output boost I was hoping for.


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## iamlucky13 (Mar 17, 2017)

Non-regulated lights lose way more output over time than that. It's regulated, just not as well as some of the best regulated lights.

I think the Manker might currently be the most affordable multi-mode Nichia 219 light on the market. I'd buy one myself if my wife wasn't already annoyed at how many AAA lights I have.

Also, supposedly the Mass Drop special edition brass Lumintop Tool has a LMH driver for a pretty good price. I can't confirm that, though. I haven't seen an update in that thread from anybody with a production version in-hand.



jon_slider said:


> the Manker E01 Copper is also LMH, but again no pocket clip.. and not regulated on High either
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jon_slider (Mar 17, 2017)

ronniepudding said:


> If it ends up having no PWM and an efficient driver -- meaning fully regulated on high, with output/runtimes like a Lumintop CU Nichia Worm -- then I might be tempted anyway.



so to review, your wish list
1. Efficient and regulated on all modes
2. Nichia
3. LMH 
4. NoPWM

close but not perfect
has features ?, 2, 3… : Copper Prometheus Beta 
has features 1, 2, … 4: Copper Worm
has features … 2, 3, 4: Manker E01
has features 1 … … … .Maratac Rev3 with no centering ring on the LED (before 10/2015)
has features 1, … 3, 4 .Maratac modded by gunga to reylight driver and 3000k XPG

I don't know any way to predict which ReyLight drivers are efficient. gunga might be able to figure it out.. maybe PM him



Toolboxkid said:


> not the output boost I was hoping for.



congrats on your new light! 
much appreciate your brightness report
if you want a brighter nichia light, go to a light made for a more powerful battery, such as CR123 (HDS claims 200 lum) or 18650 (Jaxman E2 claims 350 lumens)

A Nichia, with An AAA or AA battery wont give more than ~80 lumens for long
the county comm specs are not accurate, they just copy pasted the specs they claim for the XP-G2 LED

some people use 10440 in Maratacs and Tools to get over 200 lumens for a short time (dont try this without knowing how to manage the risks)


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## jorn (Mar 17, 2017)

Video says dont use a 10440, you will blow the driver. If it uses the same driver as the lumintop worm rev 4, then a 10440 will blow the driver. Done that.. My worm only works with a 10440 now, and it's only one mode now.


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## MAD777 (Mar 17, 2017)

I received mine today. A shiny new member of my small copper collection. Love the look. 

I cannot see any PWM in mine at any output level. It does have that goofy M-L-H interface.


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## jon_slider (Mar 17, 2017)

iamlucky13 said:


> It's regulated



I dont call that regulated, this is what I mean by regulated.. the flat lines that the Nichia Worms and some rare Tools have

http://budgetlightforum.com/comment/1083231#comment-1083231


maukka said:


> Included here is also the runtime for Manker E21 on high with one Eneloop Pro. The better Lumintops are indeed very efficient.



I agree the Brass Tool is supposed to be LMH, it is also not efficient, and has no flat regulation. iirc they dont ship til after April 11.


_UPz said:


>


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## gunga (Mar 17, 2017)

Thanks for the update! So no point buying one for me.


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## jon_slider (Mar 18, 2017)

I gave away a CuTool w Nichia today, birthday present to my son in law. 

_(fwiw the Copper Tool w Nichia is on salefor $23, _the CuWorm is on sale for $31_)_ 
Now I feel like Im allowed to buy another light, or two

Sooo, I just ordere two CuMaratac w Nichia.. (one is for a friend, I dont need two!.. do I?;-) ) 
to my surprise they came with Free Shipping! woo hoo! 
(they used to charge $10, when the lights cost a lot more too, and did not come w a Nichia)

Im actually tempted to buy a CuWorm, and swap the pills

A CuMaratac w Nichia on an efficient regulated driver w NoPWM can't be bad. 
(Two lights for less than the price of a Cool White Maratac)


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## jon_slider (Mar 18, 2017)

duplicate, oops


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## J Smith (Mar 19, 2017)

Been thinking on the PWM thing. I have a AA stainless,AAA brass and AAA ti. I can't see any PWM on any of them. I was watching the countycomm video and the weird thing the Ti AA was doing I am thinking more and more is something to do with the camera they are shooting with.


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## jon_slider (Mar 19, 2017)

J Smith said:


> Been thinking on the PWM thing. I have a AA stainless,AAA brass and AAA ti. I can't see any PWM on any of them. I was watching the countycomm video and the weird thing the Ti AA was doing I am thinking more and more is something to do with the camera they are shooting with.



depending when you bought your AAA lights they might not have PWM.. if they have a ring around the LED they are NoPWM models. If they dont have the ring, they Do have PWM.

there are tests you can do to detect PWM, if you really want to learn, PM me, and yes, what you see in the video is definitely PWM.


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## J Smith (Mar 19, 2017)

If I understand right my Brass and SS do not have PWM. The Ti AAA does but it must be very fast as I can't detect it with my eyes.


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## jon_slider (Mar 19, 2017)

J Smith said:


>


the TiAAA has a ring around the LED, that is most likely a NoPWM model
the brass has no ring, possibly a YesPWM model
the AA model Im not sure,


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## J Smith (Mar 19, 2017)

Thanks,can't tell any difference between them. All have beautiful white tint and great beam pattern. The AA SS is my favorite. The twist action on the SS and Brass is tight and butter smooth. The AAA Ti is nice and tight but a little gritty from it being TI on TI but is smoothing out some.


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## jon_slider (Mar 19, 2017)

J Smith said:


> All have beautiful white tint


glad you are enjoying your lights 
fwiw, they are Cool White and Low CRI, the Maratac w High CRI Nichia LED, has a warmer color temperature and will show red as red, instead of the way our cool white LEDs make reds look Brown.

If you have not experienced a Nichia LED, you now have a whole new opportunity to see what Im talking about , either by buying a CuMaratac w Nichia, or a CuTool w Nichia, if you want to try a clicky (and fwiw, you could lego the head of the AAA Tool onto your AAA Maratacs, and vice versa)







and thanks for confirming the Titanium threads are gritty.. imo Titanium is best reserved for clicky lights


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## J Smith (Mar 19, 2017)

Thanks to you letting me in on your testing methods I did find this out.
The AA and brass aaa are both PWM on low and Med,could not see it on high. Very hard to see with normal use,the brass is worse than the SS. The Ti AAA has none at all. Really doesn't bother me as long as I can't see it in normal use.
The gritty Ti threads are not that bad and have smoothed in the short time I have had it. 
Really looking forward to comparing the color difference in the Nichia 209. I know it is not the same (or at least hope it is not) as home LEDs. I will only buy the daylight LEDs for home use,hate the soft and warm white colors of them.


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## recDNA (Mar 19, 2017)

Johnnyh said:


> Thanks for the heads up! Looks nice...like that they went to L-M-H. Glow o-ring n head, new reflector, stronger clip...nichia 219 at 138 lumens for 70 minutes? I'm all in on it!


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## Johnnyh (Mar 19, 2017)

recDNA said:


>



Yea, I know, they switched up the description soon after I looked at it. Too bad.


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## wolfgaze (Mar 19, 2017)

Thanks so much for the heads up! I had been waiting for Maratac to release a version of their AAA lights with the Nichia emitter... I too had emailed them within the past year encouraging them to offer Nichia options and said there would be a healthy demographic of flashlight users who would be interested in this... Glad they did it and I love that Maratac is so receptive to Customer feedback....

I placed an order for the Copper AAA and I'm looking forward to receiving it... Really love their AAA light design... I've been using their black aluminum AAA light body with the Lumintop Stainless Steel Worm head and it's been one of my favorite little lights... 

The $34.99 price point seems really good... Is that what the going rate was for their previous Copper AAA offering? Was wondering if this might have been an introductory price, to promote sales and get some publicity for future sales...


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## jon_slider (Mar 20, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> I've been using their black aluminum AAA light body with the Lumintop Stainless Steel Worm head and it's been one of my favorite little lights...





wolfgaze said:


> The $34.99 price point seems really good... Is that what the going rate was for their previous Copper AAA offering?




So glad youre enjoying your WormAttac
Mine is in my pocket today

the new Maratac price has a $30 discount, 





the Maratac/Tool knurling now has less machining steps, and is now smooth feeling, not as grippy/sharp as earlier models (that also did not offer a Nichia), its a steal of a deal imo, for that matter so is the $23 CuTool w Nichia at Banggood



Johnnyh said:


> they switched up the description soon after I looked at it. Too bad.



I see you went with an AAA Copper Astrolux A01 w LMH (0.1/7/100 lumens iirc) .. 
Congrats on scoring one without next mode memory  (Astrolux A01 different versions?)

Im curious what usage scenario you envision, that makes you prefer LMH and such a low first mode? 
(checking on sleeping babies for example? or maybe to avoid waking swmbo)

I avoided the Astrolux/Manker A01, (my babies are grownups now, and I fired the swmbo), for my application the low is too low and I dont like it first.

For my office EDC scenario, I prefer the 18/3/80 lumen levels and MLH sequence of the Maratac/Tool.

(I will verify the Maratac lumens and add it to the efficiency thread, when mine arrives)


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## wolfgaze (Mar 20, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> the new Maratac price has a $30 discount,



Do you think it will remain at this price point? ($35)

There's a good chance I'll end up placing an order for another one to be kept as a backup/spare...


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## jon_slider (Mar 20, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> Do you think it will remain at this price point? ($35)


I do not know, have no insider info
I think, if you place one in your cart now, it locks in the price, even if you buy it later, and even if you change the quantity

here is what I base that on, true story
in June of 2015 I put a CuMaratac in my cart. I hesitated until August, by which time it was out of stock. The CuMaratac restocked in Oct 2015, and the price went up (iirc by ~$20). But I was able to buy the Oct 2015 model, at the price originally placed in my cart (iirc ~$42), and I was able to increase the number of lights from my original order, and still got the old price. Even better, for me, the Oct model, to my suprise had NoPWM (and was the first appearance of the ring around the LED)… fwiw, the CuMaratac I bought in April 2015 had PWM, more aggressive knurling, and no ring around the LED. I paid vinh to swap the driver to a NoPWM Ti3 driver, and the LED to Nichia 219b (that I felt was too cool, it looked like a 5000k+ CCT).. I did not like the low of the Ti3 driver (fwiw the Nichia made it even lower, by another 30% or so), so I then had gunga swap the LED and driver again, to a ReyLight driver w NoPWM, and a 3000k XPG (which also made the 0.8 lumen low about 50% lower). It is now my favorite low light LMH AAA.

but since then, I have also adopted the 4000-4500k N219b as my edc, and in that role I prefer MLH, usually a Maratac body, with either a Worm or Tool head w Nichia..

so now the CuMaratac w Nichia, at the current price, is well below half what I was paying to end up with NoPWM and High CRI MaraWorms and MaraTools. And I no longer need to buy 2 lights to Lego into the one I want, and I dont need to mail my lights out to modders, in order to get Nichias w NoPWM into my Maratacs..


----------



## Johnnyh (Mar 20, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> So glad youre enjoying your WormAttac
> Mine is in my pocket today
> 
> the new Maratac price has a $30 discount,
> ...



In my perfect, OCD part of me, I like the L-M-H sequence for getting up in the middle of the night or very early morning without disturbing swmbo. (She's on a long term contract that would cost too much for early termination!) That being said, I ordered the Maratac Cu from CountyComm. While they sort of snagged me with the original description I have zero regrets, it's a beauty. In reality, it's not difficult to twist the light inside my hand twice for low. Takes like a fraction of a second, no big deal. Not even close to a deal breaker for me. Look forward to your opinion and analysis of this one. BTW, your posts elsewhere have got me taking beam shots with my SLR, trying to detect PMW! My "swmbo" thinks I'm nuts.


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> I do not know, have no insider info
> I think, if you place one in your cart now, it locks in the price, even if you buy it later, and even if you change the quantity
> 
> here is what I base that on, true story
> ...



It did not hold the price on the AAA Ti. Had one in my cart and when they raised the price back up it raised it in my cart as well. Wish I bougtht another when they were on sale. I have a AA Ti Nichia coming today,if I like the Nichia I am going to grab a Copper AAA. Wish they had done it in brass. Don't mind the copper until I forget and hold it with my mouth.....YUCK!!


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

BTW for you guys getting the Copper ones. I polished my brass one last night and thought a polished SS clip would look better on it. so after about 45 min worth of polishing I think it does. The paint on those clips is some tough stuff.


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## recDNA (Mar 20, 2017)

I prefer single mode twisties. I really hate twisting through modes. I only want high. No babies to wake and I need bright light to see well.


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

Got my Ti AA today. Like the Nichia ok but still like the higher temp led better. The threads on the AA Ti are much smoother out of box than the AAA where. Unless it is because of perceived brightness to the eye because of the color of the tint there is no way it is 205 lums on high. Overall I am liking it.


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## jon_slider (Mar 20, 2017)

Johnnyh said:


> BTW, your posts elsewhere have got me taking beam shots with my SLR, trying to detect PMW! My "swmbo" thinks I'm nuts.


LOL!
thanks for sharing 
fwiw, I prefer Warm, 3000k, at sublumen levels on my nightstand light 
Candle Color for Candle Brightness..



J Smith said:


> Don't mind the copper until I forget and hold it with my mouth.....YUCK!!



the smell of my hands after copper used to bother me
I have reprogrammed my response and now think of it as the smell of dead germs
more about coppers germicidal (oligodynamic) properties here



J Smith said:


> I polished my brass one last night and thought a polished SS clip would look better on it.


good job
I also wanted a shiny clip when my copper was shiny
the TiTool clip is shiny
but now that my copper is naturally darkened, I prefer the black clip

fwiw, Ketchup will strip patina, 

but beware that it also creates a sort of matte finish, because it etches. I prefer to use a jewelers polishing cloth, to brighten the highlights and leave the darker contrast on the low spots

sometimes I like to use plant food to create a green patina (it wears off, not permanent)










trivia, vinegar, acid, tomato sauce, strips patina off copper, acids have the opposite effect and creates patina on steel


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## kreisl (Mar 20, 2017)

Which driver has it, is it the NoEfficient YesPwmfree one?


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

The Ti AA does have PWM. Not bad,only way I could tell was using my phone camera. The trick about the no PWM models having the round circle around the LED does not hold true as the area around the LED the PWM TI AA looks just like the area around the LED on the Non PWM TI AAA. 


I have used Ketchup on copper. Worked good. I have found Flitz polish works best. Needs hardly any elbow grease.


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## jon_slider (Mar 20, 2017)

kreisl said:


> NoEfficient YesPwmfree?



that is my prediction, wait until I receive mine and update the efficiency thread



J Smith said:


> The trick about the no PWM models having the round circle around the LED does not hold true as the area around the LED the PWM TI AA looks just like the area around the LED on the Non PWM TI AAA.


there is a misunderstanding about my use of the word "ring", I dont mean the glow in the dark O ring under the glass at the top of the reflector, I mean the shiny metal ring around the LED itself, at the bottom of the reflector, what some refer to as an LED Centering Ring. The centering ring hides the square base the LED is mounted on, the square corners are only visible on your lights that DoHave PWM.

in your photo, above, only the light on the left (TiAAA) has the ring around the LED (at the bottom of the reflector cone), and that is the only one you report has NoPWM

here is another example of the difference, the light on the right has the (shiny) ring around the LED, and NoPWM





here is their PWM test





I am a PWM fiend (because I discovered that it interferes with my photos). I was the first to report the change to a NoPWM driver, in an Oct 2015 Maratac. The Tools soon followed suit, sporting a centering ring, which is what tipped me off to the apparent fact, that Maratac is made by Lumintop atm 

minirant: (it creates confusion to say that Maratacs are made by a US company in California. Yes CountyComm is in California, no they do not make flashlights in California, in fact CountyComm does not manufacture anything, they are Vendor, not a manufacturer. Both Apple and CountyComm use Chinese manufacturers, to produce goods to their specs, on exclusive contract).. /rant

The centering ring, so far, has always and only, appeared on AAA Maratacs, Tools, and Worms, with NoPWM.. Im not positive if this applies to the AA models, so far I only have your example to go by. You get credit for being the first to confirm PWM in an AA Maratac, correlated with NoCenteringRing. For which I thank you


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## wolfgaze (Mar 20, 2017)

FYI everyone, I confirmed with CountyComm that this $35 price is an introductory price point and is going to go up in a few days. So if you're on the fence and want to save some money you may want to place an order now. 

Maybe if the OP sees this he can update the original post to note the introductory pricing...


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## wolfgaze (Mar 20, 2017)

Does the lens have to be protected at all when marinating a flashlight in ketchup?


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## gunga (Mar 20, 2017)

Nope.


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

That ring is the one I am seeing. The yes PWM Ti AA looks exactly the same as the no PWM Ti AAA.


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## Thetasigma (Mar 20, 2017)

The Maratacs came in, definitely PWM on the AA model and it appears to be a 219B. The tint is pretty clean if it actually is 4000k, none of the usual rosiness associated with 219Bs.
One of them has extra material on the battery tube so the head doesn't screw down as far.


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## gunga (Mar 20, 2017)

The "ring" everyone keeps talking about is just the inner part of the reflector. It's only in the latest versions. It may indicate the most recent no pwm driver in the aaa models but the latest AA models have pwm.


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## jon_slider (Mar 20, 2017)

J Smith said:


> That ring is the one I am seeing. The yes PWM Ti AA looks exactly the same as the no PWM Ti AAA.



thank you! so it is fair to say that in AAA lights the ring coincides with NoPWM, but the AA lights have PWM regardless, wouldnt you agree?

now, about this photo:




is the light on the bottom right the same as the one in the photo you just posted? I just am confused, as I see no ring, and see the corners of the LED board.. but then, I dont see that well, and I trust your feedback most.. AA=PWM


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## gunga (Mar 20, 2017)

Thetasigma

How do you like it? I'm considering getting one as a mod host for a ReyLight Pineapple driver.


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## spc (Mar 20, 2017)

That AA ti looks nice, is the clip hardened steel or coated stainless? Would look nice with the ti instead of black


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

It is not. The AA in the pic with the three lights is a stainless AA
The AA in the pic with the two lights is the Ti AA I received today.


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## Thetasigma (Mar 20, 2017)

Less gritty threads than the AAA, but still not as well done as they could be. 
Probably try to get ahold of a Reylight driver for mine though, 14500 compatibility would help with the output.
Speaking of which, the specs are inaccurate as expected, the output is about the same as the Reylight on AA.


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## jon_slider (Mar 20, 2017)

spc said:


> coated stainless?


yes
maratac and tool share the same black coated stainless clip
TiTool has the Bling Stainless clip, they are interchangeable
I know of someone that made their black clip shiny, with a lot of elbow grease

same clip in TactiCool or OfficeCool








J Smith said:


> It is not.



thank you!
Im clear now that the Rev 4 AA Ti light with a Ring has YesPWM
just to be thorough:

does the AA Stainless light with NoRing, have PWM?

anticipate my next questions if you say NO:
is the mode sequence on the NoRing Stainless AA MLH, is it a Rev 3? is the low mode lower than on the Rev 4?

online specs for the rev4 vary, some say 12 lumen, some say 5 lumen
I dont recall the specs for the rev3 AA
innacurate specs are only valid for comparison to equally innacurate specs, 

Im still waiting for someone with a light meter to report actual lumens on the Rev4 AAA and AA
I can teach you an easy way to measure lumens, if you own a light meter and want to brainstorm, PM me


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

I need to report that I am feeling a little dumb about the statement of the brightness level. It has gotten dark enough now to really check them out. Wasn't impressed at all with the brightness level on the AA Nichia. When it got hear today I put a new lithium AA batery in it. I decided to check the battery as it wasn't coming close to the AAA with an older battery in it. That battery was weak,it is now putting out a nice amount of light. Kind of feel like the Sling Blade guy trying to start the mower "got gas in it?"


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## spc (Mar 20, 2017)

I'm glad the clip is stainless, if I can't find a Tool clip, I'm going to send mine to J Smith!


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## jon_slider (Mar 20, 2017)

J Smith said:


> "got gas...?"


funny!
got eneloop?



spc said:


> I'm going to send mine to J Smith!


lol, include some eneloops ;-)
or contact:
https://countycomm.com/collections/...ashlight-by-maratac-rev-3?variant=29711801612
and ask for a spare silver one like they show on their Stainless TPF AAA light

theres even a brass plated clip (pic is a link):


_UPz said:


>


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## snowlover91 (Mar 20, 2017)

Received the AA Ti and AAA copper today. Sequence of AA model is LMH and it is MLH for the AAA version. Nice, clean tint too! If there is PWM in either light I definitely can't notice it but I'm sure once Jon gets his he can fill us in  For my uses they'll both work great! The threads on the AAA copper are buttery smooth and surprisingly the AA titanium is very smooth with almost no grit. After my usual treatment for Ti it should be buttery smooth as well! Great lights and a good price too.


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

I think the SS AA is a rev 4,MLH and does have PWM. The only Maratac I have right now with no PWM is the AAA Ti.
As far as the clip goes the SS AA came with a polished clip. I used a dremel with a polishing wheel with a med grit polishing compound to get the paint off the AAA clip then went back over it with a fine polish. Got really good at this with knife clips over the years. The AAA clip is a pain because of the size and all the bends and curves. It would be a lot easier with one of the scotch brite wheels to strip it but I was out of them.


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

snowlover91 said:


> Received the AA Ti and AAA copper today. Sequence of AA model is LMH and it is MLH for the AAA version. Nice, clean tint too! If there is PWM in either light I definitely can't notice it but I'm sure once Jon gets his he can fill us in  For my uses they'll both work great! The threads on the AAA copper are buttery smooth and surprisingly the AA titanium is very smooth with almost no grit. After my usual treatment for Ti it should be buttery smooth as well! Great lights and a good price too.



What is your treatment for the ti threads? I would like to smooth my AAA out a little more.


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## jon_slider (Mar 20, 2017)

snowlover91 said:


> I actually find my AAA Maratac twisty has smoothed out a good bit over time and with the use of "super lube" on the threads. Seems to really help.





J Smith said:


> What is your treatment for the ti threads?



for my Titanium Thrunite I used:
"_a polishing wheel with a med grit polishing compound_"
after trying dielectric grease, I went with Nano Oil

I worked the threads by hand, with the O ring and battery removed, twisting the head slightly, pushing and pulling, to clear and smooth any galling.. it helped, but at the end what I realized is that even without an O ring the titanium will still gall against itself.. ymmv

as an aside, mix and matching a copper to Titanium Lego, makes for VERY smooth threads, eg, copper head on Ti Body and swap versa

just to give you some idea, though I dont have a TiMaratac..


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## snowlover91 (Mar 20, 2017)

J Smith said:


> What is your treatment for the ti threads? I would like to smooth my AAA out a little more.



Super lube. Can buy it from amazon and some hardware stores might carry it. Works wonders on titanium threads, took my super gritty AAA and made it smooth after a few weeks of usage.


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## J Smith (Mar 20, 2017)

Thanks
Wondering if pencil lead would work. Keeps ti framelock knives from sticking.


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## snowlover91 (Mar 20, 2017)

J Smith said:


> Thanks
> Wondering if pencil lead would work. Keeps ti framelock knives from sticking.



Might be worth a shot, if you try it let us know how it does!


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## wolfgaze (Mar 22, 2017)

Would anyone who recently received the AAA Copper care to post some photos? Need something to hold me over until mine arrives on Thursday. : )


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## jon_slider (Mar 22, 2017)

on the left


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## wolfgaze (Mar 22, 2017)

Nice Jon... Because I have an extra/spare Ti Tool, I'm going to use the stainless steel clip from that light with the Maratac AAA Cu...


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## Nichia! (Mar 22, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> on the left



So what you think about it? Is it efficient or not? List the pros and cons


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## Nichia! (Mar 22, 2017)

Can you post some pics of the driver and make a compression between it and tool copper?


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## sbslider (Mar 22, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> So what you think about it? Is it efficient or not? List the pros and cons


I think Jonathan told us all about it quite well. beam shot of rev 4 vs older rev presumably rev 3. 3 modes, 24 lumens, 3 lumens, 90 lumens. Or roughly equivalent to that, depending on his setup for measuring lumens. No PWM. Emitter shot. After 50 minutes, light is dimmer, battery down to 1V. Sounds like the efficient version to me. Last picture is the battery ready to go back into the charger. He was up pretty late, hopefully he sleeps in today. 

Nice story, well told. Hoping mine arrives by Friday. I would be curious to know what, if any, differences there are between rev 4 and 3 (3.5?). I according to the countycomm website it is just a glow in the dark diffuser and o-ring. I have been wanting a copper light, so no significant change is no big deal to me.


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## Johnnyh (Mar 22, 2017)

The price just went up to 39.85. Just when I was going to grab another! [emoji35]


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 22, 2017)

Johnnyh said:


> The price just went up to 39.85. Just when I was going to grab another! [emoji35]



Kind of pricey, isn't it?


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## Wicho (Mar 22, 2017)

I was going to order a couple more as gifts but also saw the price went up so took a pass.


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## Nichia! (Mar 22, 2017)

this_is_nascar said:


> Kind of pricey, isn't it, considering the offerings from Lumintop, ThruNite and others?



No place for thrunite here! it's it's about Maratac & lumintop copper and Nichia.. Please try to stick with the topic!


----------



## this_is_nascar (Mar 22, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> No place for thrunite here! it's it's about Maratac & lumintop copper and Nichia.. Please try to stick with the topic!


Yea, you're right. Sorry.


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## wolfgaze (Mar 22, 2017)

Johnnyh said:


> The price just went up to 39.85. Just when I was going to grab another! [emoji35]



I tried to give advanced notice of this on page 3, a couple days ago... Kinda surprised it only went up to $40, as that's only $5 more than the the aluminum version (with the cool white LED...


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## wolfgaze (Mar 22, 2017)

Wicho said:


> I was going to order a couple more as gifts but also saw the price went up so took a pass.



I bet your intended recipients would really enjoy those lights, even if you had to spend an extra $20 to make it happen. : ) 

At least you would qualify for free shipping... So maybe you can rationalize it.


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## sbslider (Mar 22, 2017)

Johnnyh said:


> The price just went up to 39.85. Just when I was going to grab another! [emoji35]


glad i pulled the trigger when I did . . .


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## jon_slider (Mar 22, 2017)

I think we have a Winner!



Nichia! said:


> So what you think about it? Is it efficient or not? List the pros and cons


updated post #105 with runtime
looks efficient and regulated, stayed above 80 lumens for 40 minutes. NoPWM, Medium 24, Low 3, High 91. Knurling is nice, not as shallow as on one of my latest CuTools, also not as smooth.. the Maratac has some sharp (unpolished) knurls when twisting one way but not the other.. something Ive experienced in other CuTools.

a little different than my worm, as the Nichia Maratac starts out above 90, and seems to taper down to 83, but does not keep dropping like my CuTool

you can see the driver pic in the above post
more detail about efficiency and pics of other drivers here
Efficiency comparison Lumintop Copper Tool and Copper Wor


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## night.hoodie (Mar 22, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> looks efficient and regulated, stayed above 80 lumens for 40 minutes



I don't think that looks regulated. If your runtime graph is accurate, that appears to be the exact behavior of how one would expect a non-regulated driver to behave running on an NiMH.

Sorry to be pendantic, but "regulated" is meant to define a very specific property in a driver, and this property is not at all being displayed by your tests.

Try the same tests with an alkaline. 

Thanks for your posts.


----------



## this_is_nascar (Mar 22, 2017)

night.hoodie said:


> I don't think that looks regulated. If your runtime graph is accurate, that appears to be the exact behavior of how one would expect a non-regulated driver to behave running on an NiMH.
> 
> Sorry to be pendantic, but "regulated" is meant to define a very specific property in a driver, and this property is not at all being displayed by your tests.
> 
> ...


I agree. That's​ far from a flatline.


----------



## wolfgaze (Mar 22, 2017)

Jon, is it feasible to measure the runtime on Medium mode? 

Thanks for the extra photos btw...


----------



## jon_slider (Mar 22, 2017)

this_is_nascar said:


> I agree. That's​ far from a flatline.



I hope others will run some tests, this is what I am trying to communicate, maybe Im not using terms correctly.. note I am merging data from different tests at different times, this chart was not both lights simultaneously, but clearly the Maratac runs longer and flatter


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 22, 2017)

Opps... I must have been looking at the wrong graph.


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## night.hoodie (Mar 22, 2017)

In my own words, a "regulated" driver will have the same output for as long as a cell can maintain the regulation, i.e., there is no drop in brightness from the moment you turn it on until the cell voltage is low enough for the light to drop out of regulation. 

NiMh has a pretty flat discharge curve, which is why it can fool you into believing your light is regulated. An alkaline cell should not provide a flat discharge curve (in a direct drive light) and should make the lack of regulation obvious if used in a non-regulated light.

But just by your graph and posted numbers, I can see that is an unregulated driver in both cases.


----------



## jon_slider (Mar 22, 2017)

thank you
I hope others will do more accurate tests
mine only show that the new driver is different than the last one, in a way I happen to like 

I appreciate the explanation of what regulated means, the way you use the term. I have no plans to test alkalines, but in my testing with eneloops, I see a change in the driver, and longer flatter runtimes in the latest version

Im hoping for a Copper Tool w Electronic switch will follow, using the same driver as in the Maratac AAA rev4 w Nichia


----------



## night.hoodie (Mar 22, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> ...but in my testing with eneloops, I see a change in the driver, and longer flatter runtimes in the latest version



I am sorry, but that is not at all clear. In fact, now that you have stated exactly which cells you are using, I'm fairly certain your results are entirely an effect of your Eneloops. They are fantastic cells, and almost make regulation unnecessary. 

Just remember that the more you use your Eneloops from new (and only to a point, obviously), the longer runtimes you will see, and always with a very flat output curve until the cell is depleated, when the output will rapidly drop. 

My suggestion for doing your same test with alkaline was not for me, but for you, to show you that the test run will be completely different. If the light was regulated, an eneloop and an alkaline would give a near identical test run. I have no doubt that you will immediately recognize the lack of regulation after running an alkaline for even only 15 minutes. Do not be concerned about leakage. I'd only be concerned about leakage if using alkalines exclusively, over time, and if the light sat for a while after using a fresh cell a little. The chances of a new top brand alkaline destroying your light during a one-off test are infinitesmally small. If you truly believe you could be that lucky... please buy me a lottery ticket and I will reimburse you. This might be the start of something big.

I didn't create my own definition of regulation, and it is only through reading CPF that I was introduced to the word and concept and learned what it meant. There are a few really good threads on CPF that discuss regulated vs. nonregulated drivers, but I found an excellent post that describes it deeper than I could:



2xTrinity said:


> A battery can be boosted (voltage step-up) or bucked (voltage step-down) without being regulated. For example, a common scheme is to simply triple battery voltage for AA lights, in order to step up ~1.2V up to the ~3.6V needed to drive the LED. The output curve will still decay with the battery discharge curve in that case.
> 
> In order for a light to be truly regulated, it must have some form of feedback -- that is a circuit that adjusts the gain of the voltage step-up, or step-down circuit based on measurement of the actual output.
> 
> ...


----------



## J Smith (Mar 22, 2017)

Anyone notice they now have a Ti AAA with the Nichia listed for 48.50? BTW did they ever sell a Brass AA,would love to have one.
Sorry misread the listing it was the AA Ti I saw.


----------



## jon_slider (Mar 22, 2017)

night.hoodie said:


> Do not be concerned about leakage.


> your results are entirely an effect of your Eneloops. They are fantastic cells, and almost make regulation unnecessary. 


Yes all my tests are w Eneloops only.
Thanks for the education about the meaning of the term "regulation". The difference on alkalines is a useful demonstration of the self regulating effect of Eneloops. Also much appreciate the quote, all super helpful.


My tests only show the latest Maratac driver has a flatter discharge curve and longer runtime, than the driver in My Copper Tool, both on Eneloops, on High mode. (but not the same identical cell). I have also incorporated other tests by maukka and UPz in my comparisons, they also used Eneloops.


I hope others will do more complete tests

I remain confident in saying there is a positive change in the new Maratac w Nichia driver. I like the way it performs.

additional trivia
I was surprised that the light started out slightly higher than 90 lumens (on my meter), but then stabilized for over 40 minutes, above 80 lumens

the "inefficient" drivers that Ive tested that start higher than 90, did not stabilize above 80 for 40 minutes, they dropped continually, and were dead by then

my new Maratac felt hotter in my hand, when I picked it up at each 10 minute test, than my Tool or worm gets. I was concerned that the higher heat was predictive of a faster discharge cycle, but suprised it actually ran longer than the Tool, even though it ran hotter.

there are many possible reasons for that. I dont propose to offer fully official tests, these are just my impressions, based on observations and information, using instruments and data, that I have access to as a lay person. Im not a pro, in anything.. I just like to post a lot of pics 

I hope maukka or UPz do one of their awesome comparos to expand the runtime and discharge curve info, including for the lower modes, and other battery chemistries

Im guessing someone out there will put a 10440 in one of these Maratacs too.. 

enjoy your lights, imo this Maratac is a winner!


----------



## sbslider (Mar 22, 2017)

Based on the data I see in post 122, the output of the Maratac looks regulated, while the tool is not. I suspect the tool has some sort of fixed boost circuit, which is why the eneloop falls of quickly while the battery voltage does not change by much. Likely with a battery at 1.6 to 1.4V the regulation will be easier to see. 

Here is a test I can/will run when I get my Maratac, as well as my brass Worm which has a discharge curve similar to that of the Maratac. Run the battery in the light for a time, measure the voltage and current of the battery. If the current increases as the battery voltage decreases, it is regulated. If the current drops linearly with the battery voltage, no regulation. This will likely be a bit tricky with the current involved in running on high, but I will give it a shot. Unfortunately, I have only one DVM, but I think that I can get a pretty good idea if the light is regulated as defined above in the quote from 2xTrinity or not. If it is only "semi-regulated", my test may not have the resolution to determine this, but in that case I think the discussion is how many angels fit on the head of a pin. 

The fact that the light is not perfectly constant over the run time does not imply to me that there is no regulation, just that it is not perfect. Welcome to the world of low cost production.


----------



## night.hoodie (Mar 22, 2017)

sbslider said:


> ...the output of the Maratac looks regulated...



Actually, I completely agree with this assessment, and even jon_slider's original statement to the same effect, enough to repeat it, the output _appears_ to be regulated. But my best guess is that it is not, and feel that a more likely, and simpler, explanation of the appearance of regulation is due to the magical properties of Eneloops, and possibly further accentuated by the driver being tuned for use with NiMH by the manufacturer. Regulated lights are more expensive, and regulation is a highly desired quality. I don't think the seller, especially CountyComm, would keep this detail a secret, but it would be a highly visible marketing point on their sales page if it was regulated, as so few AAA lights are regulated.

But in the end, this is only my opinion. And I think maybe I have an embarassingly low batting average at times. YMMV


----------



## jon_slider (Mar 22, 2017)

I respect, appreciate, and learn from your posts night.hoodie
I dont feel the same about CountyComm
neither their webpage, nor their video makes me feel like they have any accurate idea about the lumen levels, runtimes, discharge curves, or other details we are discussing here

imo, they are just getting on board with the Lumintop Tool w Nichia head. The outputs are the same, the modes are the same, the driver looks the same

imo Lumintop has changed some of the parts in their driver, something they do without notice to anyone


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## phosphor22 (Mar 22, 2017)

Got the one I ordered; I like this particular light because of the the Nichia, the ease of the twist action (like butter) - and that the knurling has a direction to it -- much more pronounced in the counterclockwise direction. I concur that this one has pretty gnarly knurling (fun to say, ha) - which for me is very functional. No PWM too.

Too bad about the mode sequence; I ordered one immediately when they appeared -- when I thought it was L, M, H since the website said so. Guess I'll keep it, though, for the reasons stated above.


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## night.hoodie (Mar 22, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> neither their webpage, nor their video makes me feel like they have any accurate idea about the lumen levels, runtimes, discharge curves, or other details we are discussing here


That is a fair point , a very honest and accurate assessment. CountyComm is a small outfit, and "after thousands of requests..." notoriously old school in their marketing techniques, except for the apparent lack of actual scientific marketing research and accurate sampling of customer feedback. They are not even remotely like, say, Apple nor Dyson, in the depth of the understanding or belief in their products. Whatever they sell is always the most amazing thing that can be found anywhere in the world, which, on its face, smacks of the all too familiar marketing subterfuge, which they are of course free to engage in, if they think that will work. Once upon a time, maybe that kind of strategy was necessary, and I am certain it is still successful at increasing sales, though it is now often a turnoff to today's educated and ethically-conscious consumers. But this particular bottle of snake oil has always excited flashaholics despite the subject of marketing-honesty.


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## sbslider (Mar 22, 2017)

Well, it turns out your are both right, more than likely. The tool one really needs to make this assessment is a regulated power supply with accurate measurements for voltage and current, and a very low impedance connection to the driver. Short of that, I did some testing with alkalines and eneloops. 

Summary is this. At higher voltages the output is regulated. For higher voltage alkaline batteries the voltage and current are inversely proportional, as well as the highest voltage eneloops, in high mode. At some voltage, the current and voltage tend to follow each other. In medium mode, all voltages showed inverse proportion between voltage and current. Here are a few data points for reference. 

Medium mode
Voc(V) I (A)
1.30 0.21
1.39 0.20
1.49 0.20
1.53 0.18
1.57 0.17
1.60 0.17

These voltages are open circuit voltages. Those below 1.4V are eneloops, those above 1.4V are alkaline. Of course the alkaline is going to drop more with the light load than the eneloop, even more so for the high mode shown below. No doubt the driver is regulated for medium mode. 

High Mode
V I
1.30 2.0
1.39 2.1
1.49 1.5
1.53 1.9
1.57 1.9 - 2.2
1.60 2.1

The conclusion here is harder to draw. The readings above the line are eneloops, and below are alkalines. Alkaline batteries are poor at delivering 2A loads. And some of the ones used were scavenged from the battery recycle pile, so who knows . . . However, I now agree with night.hoodie in his assessment that the data shown for the Maratac AAA is likely not regulated. BUT, jonslider assessment that the Maratac performance with the battery type is much better than the Tool. And if the driver was tuned for a lower input regulation voltage, would likely be regulated, even with eneloops. If I had a better setup I could tell you the regulation set point, but unfortunately I don't right now at home. IF I am bored sometime at work (unlikely) I will see if i can gather up the equipment to do some more accurate testing in high mode. 

I will clarify this data was taken with a brass Lumintop worm, not the copper Maratac. I think the data I have seen suggests the performance of the Maratac will be similar. 

I enjoyed this little project, hope the results are at least mildly interesting. Back to your regularly scheduled programming . . .
:thinking:

GOOD TEST SETUP UPDATE - Digital display lab power supply with fairly short wires for leads. I believe the previous testing was distorted due to the current meter impedance. 

Brass worm data
Voltage (V)Current High (A)Current Med (A)1.50.730.160
1.40.800.1731.30.900.1871.21.020.2031.11.230.2371.0
1.650.25?

Sorry jon_slider, not sure how to get a graph and embed it without going through an external website, which is a PITA. Data summary is that the power demanded from the power supply goes up about 25% as the voltage drops from 1.5V to 1.0V. The power increase in medium mode is more dramatic, roughly 2x. But since eneloops are more like current sources, not such a huge deal. 

I also note that on the high mode the current drawn from the supply decreases a bit as everything warms up, which I suspect is an artifact of a constant voltage on the LED and LED efficiency increasing as it warms up. But that is just my guess. I did note the current in low mode varied from the low 0.02xA area to a bit above 0.03xA as the voltage decreased. Note the "x" is just a number that I did not record. 

I conclude the Brass Lumintop Worm is regulated in some fashion. I suspect the increase in power as the input voltage decreases is due to conversion inefficiencies of the driver as the current to it increases, but that is just an educated guess. Look forward to seeing if the Maratac rev 4 is the same.


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## sbslider (Mar 22, 2017)

I just thought of a way I may be able to run a test of regulation in high mode. I have a 4 pack of lithium primary batteries that excel at delivering high current, and start at 1.7V or so I believe. I think with these I may be able to get a fairly accurate picture of the actual regulation of the light with just my DVM measuring current. I think I will wait for my Maratac to arrive to attempt this test. Supposed to be here Friday.


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## jon_slider (Mar 23, 2017)

sbslider said:


> No doubt the driver is regulated for medium mode.


seems like it to me, although there is also a difference in total runtime on medium, between various iterations of the driver

we need maukka to get a hold of one of these Maratacs


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## night.hoodie (Mar 23, 2017)

There really needs to be a control added to the test, to test the methodology of the test itself, and for the sake of the veracity and accuracy of conclusions drawn afterwards, to run the same tests against a light _that is already known to be regulated_. What should data coming from testing a regulated light look like with this same methodology and individual tester? Then compare the data between the regulated light results and the unknown-if-regulated results, rather than attempting to draw conclusions only looking at the data coming from the light in question.


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## sbslider (Mar 23, 2017)

night.hoodie said:


> There really needs to be a control added to the test, to test the methodology of the test itself, and for the sake of the veracity and accuracy of conclusions drawn afterwards, to run the same tests against a light _that is already known to be regulated_. What should data coming from testing a regulated light look like with this same methodology and individual tester? Then compare the data between the regulated light results and the unknown-if-regulated results, rather than attempting to draw conclusions only looking at the data coming from the light in question.


Good thought. More data. 
I have been testing a Thrunite archer for about 9 days now in moonlight mode. Twice a day I do a tail cap measurement of the current drawn from the 20 year old alkaline battery I am testing. What I have observed is that as the alkaline battery voltage (open circuit) decreases, the current drawn from the battery increases. I don't have equipment to verify the light output is not changing. 

The previous measurements were just very quick, and in all cases I observed if anything the current decreasing over the short time I looked. It was not until I pondered the data awhile realized that means not regulated. Duh.

I was having troouble falling back to sleep tonight, and thought of another test I could perform. Again, on the worm, not the Maratac. The test is was to take a fresh off the charger eneloop and see how the current changed with time. 

Data
two batteries, both at 1.45V. Both provided 1.1A of current, slowly increasing, for the first minute or so. Then the current jumped up to 2A and started slowly decreasing. I don't know alot about Nimh battery characteristics, but I suspect the driver on high for my worm IS regulated, and that the regulation in put threshold is crossed and the light performance changes drastically after that. Opinion only. 

I was doubting that the lithium primary test would prove anything, suspecting that my shaky electrical connections were contributing to the data I observed in the first test in high mode. This data shows me that the lithium battery test could really tell alot about the characteristics of the driver. Better yet would be a variable power supply and some proper electrical connections. 

But since the subject of this thread is the Maratac light, not my Worm, testing will await the presence of that light. Hopefully I can get some sleep between now and then.


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## sbslider (Mar 23, 2017)

One more data point - another, newer eneloop that had finished charging in the past half hour. current in high mode started at 1.05A, and slowly increased to 1.35A over about 5 minutes. Then current jumped to 1.95A, I stopped testing. Further confirmation that the Worm is regulating, at least somewhat, early in the eneloop battery life. Also think I figured out how to test this at work simply. Hope to dry run today with the Worm. 

One thing I wonder is, if there is regulation, why did they set it where it is? Alkalines will never really regulate with this design, their impedance is too high at these current levels. Eneloops don't take advantage of this, as their voltage is lower than the set point for the majority of their operating time. And who would design a light around lithium primaries? Finally, if it was for rechargeable lithiums, which the manufacturers say are not compatible, 1.35V is ridiculously below their operating range. It may just be a by product of what ever sort of controller being used.


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 23, 2017)

Wasn't sure to post this on this thread or the other ones that's talking about the Worm, regulation, etc. I've been able to find some of my old graphs and testing equipment. What I've quickly learned is today's 1xAAA lights (Lumintop and ThruNite for sure) have thrown any chance of flat regulation across all modes out the door, because of introducing this record setting high-output found in these new LEDS. A single AAA cell, of any format, simply can't keep up. It really that simple. When I left this hobby several years ago, even the highest outputted 1xAAA lights would be regulation throughout their levels. Today, with makers pushing 100+lumens out the front, a simple AAA can not keep up. The science and technology of the AAA simply hasn't advanced far enough to keep up with the demands of these brighter LEDS. Where you find efficiency is using these newer LEDs at a more realistic output. That's why you'll see the above mentioned lights regulated on low and medium modes.

I, for one, would rather have less maximum output of regulated light, than a light that bright and not fully regulated. It appears those days are over though, as the makers think that brighter is always better.


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## gunga (Mar 23, 2017)

Here here. I agree. I guess the 4-5 year old preon revo on my keychain is here to stay.


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 23, 2017)

Case in point.............


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## jorn (Mar 23, 2017)

So mutch testing, and still no one have tested it with a 10440 :devil:


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## sbslider (Mar 23, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> Tested Medium, the worm is regulated and lasts past the 4 hour mark when I ended the test because the ReyLight turned off by then.


This is data for the worm discussed above in this thread. Y axis is lumens, X axis is hours. To get the performance above, you turn the light on. If you want less light, turn it off and back on. If for some crazy reason you want more light, close to a binding 100 lumens, turn it off and back on again. You get this crazy output for 40-50 minutes, at levels the human eye can not detect a change of intensity, assuming you used a freshly charged eneloop cell. If you don't want this crazy amount of light, just turn it on once with an alkaline or eneloop, and see the chart above. 


this_is_nascar said:


> I, for one, would rather have less maximum output of regulated light, than a light that bright and not fully regulated. It appears those days are over though, as the makers think that brighter is always better.


Does this light not meet that description? I am confused . . .:shrug:

Hoping the Maratac being discussed (with some distractions, mostly by me . .) has a similar performance.


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## jon_slider (Mar 23, 2017)

night.hoodie said:


> There really needs to be a control added to the test


I thought the Worm was my control?
I hope you, or someone, do some tests you consider valid.
I only use Eneloops, I thank you for making me aware that they are excellent at regulating lights that are not regulated on Alkaline, because the high mode exceeds the ability of the alkaline battery chemistry.

it seems to me 80 lumens of Nichia, is above the range that an alkaline can regulate, but apparently an Eneloop and a primary lithium can. there are lots of tests of other lights, selbuilt for example, that shows regulated and unregulated options.

bottom line is the new Maratac driver is more efficient on Eneloops than the previous run of drivers in the Copper and Titanium Tools.



sbslider said:


> Hoping the Maratac being discussed … has a similar performance.



I look forward to your test results pitting the Maratac w Nichia, head to head w the Worm w Nichia.

in my tests the Maratac is superior in brightness, and equal in regulation and runtime, but I need others to independently confirm my observations, using whatever methodology seems most scientific to you.

and please graph the results, I get dizzy reading stacks of numbers interspersed with bla bla bla (something Im well versed in myself)

Pics! or it didnt happen.. LOL


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## night.hoodie (Mar 23, 2017)

this_is_nascar said:


> What I've quickly learned is today's 1xAAA lights (Lumintop and ThruNite for sure) have thrown any chance of flat regulation across all modes out the door, because of introducing this record setting high-output found in these new LEDS



Not new, but try Fenix E05ss, still regulated in all modes.



jorn said:


> So mutch testing, and still no one have tested it with a 10440 :devil:



It's already been determined that Maratac Rev.4 driver accepts AAA voltages _only_. Nothing is new about this one other than the emitter. IIRC, only Rev.2 & Rev.3 could handle the highr voltages of 10440.



jon_slider said:


> bottom line is the new Maratac driver is more efficient on Eneloops than the previous run of drivers in the Copper and Titanium Tools.



Those drivers have identical lumen output in the modes you tested?


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 23, 2017)

I'm going to disengage from this thread, as I don't want to take it off track anymore than I already have. Sorry about that. Yes, I guess you're right. If you want the regulation, don't use high. It so happens, the T01 (that I measured) is a single level light. Again, not part of this thread or discussion, so I'll take a seat.


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## jon_slider (Mar 23, 2017)

night.hoodie said:


> It's already been determined that Maratac Rev.4 driver accepts AAA voltages _only_.


I missed that, got link?



night.hoodie said:


> Those drivers have identical lumen output in the modes you tested?


why do you ask, is the info not on the charts I posted?


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## night.hoodie (Mar 23, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> I missed that, got link?



well, here's some deja vu



night.hoodie said:


> The original PWM-laden Maratac Rev. 3 circuit (PWM on M and L only) could technically handle 10440 voltage, but not for long with the stock aluminum heat-sink. Copper-bonded LED provides much better performance, endurance for these, throwing away destructive heat.
> 
> The newest batch of Current Controlled (CC) Rev.3 (some CPF-members title it "Rev. 3.5") circuits (no PWM on any mode) are predicted to instantly  on 10440, *according to the manufacturer, Lumintop,* which uses a near identical driver in the new Tools. This is not due to heat but the voltage limits of the new driver.
> 
> ...









jon_slider said:


> I got one of those too, it is pictured above, including the lack of ring around the LED.
> 
> Maratac Rev3 had a second production run, I bought one in October, pictured above with the ring around the LED and it is the first Maratac Ive owned with No PWM. We have started calling it Revision3.5, but that is not CountyComms designation, they still list it as a Rev3. I bought Rev3 Maratacs in April and in June also, they both had PWM and no ring around the LED.
> 
> ...






jon_slider said:


> why do you ask, is the info not on the charts I posted?



No, I am sorry, jon it is not at all clear. 
What is the max output of the Maratac Rev. 4 AAA Nichia, please? advertised and tested?
What is the max output of the Nichia Tool? both advertised and tested, plz

jon_slider, your enthusiasm is awesome. As are your efforts and time spent in posting your results. But you are, IMO, based on the tests you provide, too quick to rush to announcing something that is not at all clear. BTW, the copper Worm testing is not any kind of control group. All your tests are anecdotal at best. There are still too many variables that can undermine your rushed conclusions. With respect!


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## jon_slider (Mar 23, 2017)

> *predicted* to instantly  on 10440

there are a number of people that have used 10440 in the NoPWM Maratacs and Tools, but I don't have the energy to rehash that info right now

I agree the manufacturer does not rate the driver for LiIon, but people do it anyway

> What is the max output of the Maratac Rev. 4 AAA Nichia, please? advertised and tested?
What is the max output of the Nichia Tool? both advertised and tested, plz

that info is on the charts I posted, and on the maratac site
I am running out of energy to rehash the info already posted.

I respect your comment that I am rushing my conclusions. I hope you do your own tests and share your own conclusions.


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## wolfgaze (Mar 23, 2017)

Heading to the post office in a couple hours to pick up my AAA Cu... It'll be my first copper light, so kind of excited to get my hands on it...


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## night.hoodie (Mar 23, 2017)

jorn said:


> Video says dont use a 10440, you will blow the driver. If it uses the same driver as the lumintop worm rev 4, then a 10440 will blow the driver. Done that.. My worm only works with a 10440 now, and it's only one mode now.



Here's more indication from early in the thread that 10440 with the newer Maratac constant current drivers are ill advised. If it wasn't clear from the quotes from older threads, the Rev.3.5 driver is effectively the same as the Rev.4 driver, with a different mode sequence. Lumintop's newer constant current drivers are most likely not 10440 friendly. The older, PWM Lumintop drivers seemed to accept 10440 voltages. This is including the constant current 2-mode Rev. 2 Maratac red "worm" driver, and the 3 mode Maratac Rev. 3 driver with PWM, both manufactured by Lumintop, and both beloved because of their ability to handle the higher voltage chems. This is including the Tool which was sometimes reported to be 10440 _only_, once using 10440, it reportedly can lose its ability to function on AAA voltages. This is all old news. With the introduction of the newer constant current AAA lights that have that neato ring around the LED at the reflector, reports have been that they are not 10440 friendly. 

jon_slider I have reread all your posted data in this thread. I can't tell what the brightness of the top modes is supposed to be. I checked the Lumintop and Maratac sites, and I don't trust the given specs (especially CountyComm's). It does not seem clear that the top modes of the Tool and Maratac are identical, but maybe so... I can't tell. Maybe I am a little thick. 

We've been here for a couple or few years and seen a few new drivers replacing older ones. What I have learned is that it is possible for two different lights with different mode sequences and different mode settings to have identical drivers. If drivers are identical, their efficiency is identical. The difference between the new Cu Maratac and Cu Tool may not be the driver... it could be identical, thus identical efficiency, and your tests do not show otherwise, even if you get more runtime out of one than the other. Perhaps there is a difference in the emitter beyond them both being Nichia 219b. Are all 219b identical with identical efficiency? I don't think we can take that for granted. Unless your eneloops have had identical histories, this could be another variable. The clicky switch in the Tool, for instance, adds resistance. This may be all that is necessary to explain your results. I apologize for being the one to suggest that your conclusions do not necessarily follow from the data you provide, and must admit it is only my opinion. Maybe one is more efficient than the other, maybe the efficiency is identical, I'm not certain, and all that is clear to me is that I can't tell for sure, and the conclusion regarding efficiency explaining the differences in runtime was a bit hasty. Maybe you are right, but I can't tell from that evidence. The data is interesting, though, and I am grateful to you, as I am sure many who have interest are. Take a break when you get tired, but keep up the good work, please.


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## sbslider (Mar 23, 2017)

Brightness advertised by Countycomm is 138 lumens. jon_sliders data is posted in lumens best I can tell. The Maratac rev 4 in high mode starts at 90 or so and holds pretty well to that level for 40ish minutes. 

Good point about the resistance of the switch, although if that is part of the reason the tool seems to be worse that is a terrible switch. The switch is a constant resistance. The voltage dropping with a fixed input level (think Nimh, which is all jon_slider uses) could imply increasing current, which would imply some sort of regulation. Of course it could also imply decreasing battery voltage. 

I can't test a Tool. On second though, I could, as I gave one to my son as a gift. Perhaps I will once I get a test setup that is easy to use, stable, and accurate. No lumen data here, just voltage and current, plotted in the future if it is not too much work.


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## sbslider (Mar 23, 2017)

this_is_nascar said:


> I'm going to disengage from this thread, as I don't want to take it off track anymore than I already have. Sorry about that. Yes, I guess you're right. If you want the regulation, don't use high. It so happens, the T01 (that I measured) is a single level light. Again, not part of this thread or discussion, so I'll take a seat.


 Sorry if I came across in a bad way, it was not intended. I was just not sure if I was missing something.


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 23, 2017)

sbslider said:


> Sorry if I came across in a bad way, it was not intended. I was just not sure if I was missing something.


No. It's all good. This really wasn't the thread for me to start adding additional products.


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## jon_slider (Mar 23, 2017)

There is no evidence, that what happened to jorn's aluminum worm, will happen to the Copper Maratac Rev4 AAA, but it is certainly possible.

So far NOBODY has reported the results of using 10440 in a Rev4 AAA Maratac w Nichia.. be the first in your neighborhood!

the following quote is evidence of 10440 use in NoPWM Rev3.5 AAA CuMaratac, and the NoPWM Tools from that period.. notice the date as reference: (and the link to the original thread for more detail)
#203 02-27-2016, 06:12 PM


write2dgray said:


> jon_slider said:
> 
> 
> > _... __The Maratac, Lumintop Tool (Copper, Alum, Ti, Rey Light Tool (Copper and Ti) and Worm (Copper, Stainless and Alum) in their present versions all use the same NoPwm driver afaik. _
> ...



this does not mean I am recommending 10440 in lights that lack thermal and low voltage protection, and whose drivers are not rated for LiIon. I personally do not use 10440. It is just a commonly asked question. There are all sorts of reasons why I dont use 10440, but other people have different needs, risk tolerance, and priorities.


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## wolfgaze (Mar 23, 2017)

My Maratac and Lumintop collection of Nichia AAA lights:

(From Left to Right: 1. Maratac Alum Rev 3 body w/ Lumintop SS Worm head, 2. Lumintop Ti Tool, 3. Lumintop Ti Tool, 4. Maratac Cu Rev 4)


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## Nichia! (Mar 23, 2017)

Beautiful lights! Congrats


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## wolfgaze (Mar 23, 2017)

Does anyone know where we can source the stainless steel pocket clips used on the Maratac and Lumintop AAA lights? I know CountyComm sells the black finish clips but didn't see the SS ones available... 



Nichia! said:


> Beautiful lights! Congrats



Thank you, and thanks again for starting this thread...


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## sbslider (Mar 23, 2017)

thanks for the pics! Mine comes tomorrow, but I won't be there to get it, so this will have to hold me over until then.


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## sbslider (Mar 23, 2017)

So I took date with a good test setup today. Regulated laboratory power supply displaying voltage and current. Short leads to my Worm head. My conclusion is the worm is regulated on all modes. See http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...-AAA-Copper!&p=5072861&viewfull=1#post5072861 for the details.


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## jon_slider (Mar 23, 2017)

sbslider said:


> My conclusion is the worm is regulated on all modes.


Brass Worm w Nichia, regulated, thank you
We look forward to your thoughts on the AAA CuMaratac Rev 4.


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## wolfgaze (Mar 24, 2017)

This light has such a good weight and 'feel' to it for such a tiny light... This may be the perfect AAA light for my personal needs & preferences... Looking forward to it changing appearance over time as it develops patina, and then looking forward to cleaning it and making it look like brand new again.


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## wolfgaze (Mar 24, 2017)

Oh and if Maratac ever does a Titanium AAA with the Nichia LED, I'll be all over that as well..


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## jon_slider (Mar 24, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> This may be the perfect AAA light for my personal needs & preferences...



I feel the same way!, great to hear you are enjoying your Rev4 CuMaratac AAA w Nichia, mine is in my pocket. 

It does not fall short on even one single criteria that I consider a priority. NoPWM, High CRI, neutral CCT, noGreen Tint, reversible pocket clip, tailstand capable, antibacterial, aesthetically pleasing, smooth action.

imo, the Nichia Maratac AAA is the Best AAA of 2017, for my needs.


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 24, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> I feel the same way!, great to hear you are enjoying your Rev4 CuMaratac AAA w Nichia, mine is in my pocket.
> 
> It does not fall short on even one single criteria that I consider a priority. NoPWM, High CRI, neutral CCT, noGreen Tint, reversible pocket clip, tailstand capable, antibacterial, aesthetically pleasing, smooth action.
> 
> imo, the Nichia Maratac AAA is the Best AAA of 2017, for my needs.


Sure wish Low was the 1st level to come on.


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## LightObsession (Mar 24, 2017)

this_is_nascar said:


> Sure wish Low was the 1st level to come on.



Me, too. But, it would still be a heavy copper light.


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 24, 2017)

LightObsession said:


> Me, too. But, it would still be a heavy copper light.


Yea, but it might be enough to at least make me buy it, even if I didn't carry it. [emoji1]


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## wolfgaze (Mar 24, 2017)

Jon (or anyone else), since I've never previously owned a copper light - how quickly can one expect a serious patina to develop? Does it take a long time or happen fairly quickly?


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## jorn (Mar 24, 2017)

A tiny aaa copper light is not that heavy. Just use a 1,5V lithium cell and you have saved the weight that the copper adds, or more, if the weight is a issue  
One of my all time favorites was the rev 2 modded with a xp-g2 using a 10440. A freind lost it when he needed a light on a fishing trip. Told him not to loose it, because i didn't want to buy a new rev 3 with pwm. Well... he lost it... Still dont want to buy because of the hed-lo-hi modes, and it cant handle a 10440... The water where my rev2 got lost is called kopperfjellsvannet, translate to copper-mountain-lake....

Serious platina? Well that depends on if you pocket carry it or not. The platina comes faster if you clean it well, get rid of all oils and fat from it, and dont use it. The pocket will rub off some of the platina. Pee on it, and it will turn green in days. There was a church that got some new copper plates on the roof, it got covered in cow **** to platina really fast


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## snowlover91 (Mar 24, 2017)

Why do so many people like the light starting on low instead of medium? Most of my use as a keychain light I need the medium mode and it's much more convenient to turn it on once and already be at medium instead of starting on low and having to twist again for medium. Maybe others use theirs differently or don't need as much light but the medium first is perfect for me.


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## Nichia! (Mar 24, 2017)

snowlover91 said:


> Why do so many people like the light starting on low instead of medium? Most of my use as a keychain light I need the medium mode and it's much more convenient to turn it on once and already be at medium instead of starting on low and having to twist again for medium. Maybe others use theirs differently or don't need as much light but the medium first is perfect for me.



+1


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## Mobileschoney (Mar 24, 2017)

I think different lights for different uses. I have a night vision problem and I use a light in my house a lot. So in navigating around a room coming on in medium is perfect for me. Or using a light outside, again medium as first mode is great. For me, my keychain light, I want that coming on in low as I typically use that light in a car or restaurant. So I typically carry 2-3 lights at any one time and use the one suited to my task. The Maratac AAA I usually clip to my pajama pants and agree, medium is good for me for use around the house.


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## LightObsession (Mar 24, 2017)

I don't mind starting in medium, if there isn't a low - high only.

I hate, hate, hate having to go through low from medium to get to high.

I'd rather have m-h-l than m-l-h.

I often use my lights in low light situations and prefer to have direct access to the lowest mode from off, rather than being blinded with a brighter mode.


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## this_is_nascar (Mar 25, 2017)

snowlover91 said:


> Why do so many people like the light starting on low instead of medium? Most of my use as a keychain light I need the medium mode and it's much more convenient to turn it on once and already be at medium instead of starting on low and having to twist again for medium. Maybe others use theirs differently or don't need as much light but the medium first is perfect for me.


It's quite simple..... because most of my use requires a very dim output from the onset. I can always switch to medium if and when required.


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## jon_slider (Mar 25, 2017)

I like the 3 lumen low of the MLH Maratac w Nichia, for indoor use when not fully dark adapted.

fwiw, It is possible to lego or mod a Maratac into an LMH modes configuration. my sig has a couple LMH ReyLights with 1 lumen low for sale, the ReyLight head is a direct lego, it works on the body of my new Maratac w Nichia too.

I have used gunga's mod services to put a Thrunite driver in a Maratac, along a High Cri 3000k LED swap. I felt the low of the Thrunite driver was too dim, so I had him remove the Thrunite driver and install a ReyLight driver instead, still w the 3000k XPG. I prefer the ReyLight driver, paired with the Warm LED.

For the 4000k LED in the Maratac w Nichia, I prefer the 3 lumen low.

I prefer sublumen levels to be warm white.

tint is a high priority criteria in my selection process

imo the Tint of the CuMaratac w Nichia is excellent for the lumens range of its modes.


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## Crazyeddiethefirst (Mar 25, 2017)

LeanBurn said:


> Wonder where they source their diffuser? Its too bad its tinted green.



They have a pure white diffuser for the AA model(as well as green and red), none of which are "glow in the dark". If you email "Mike" at County Comm, he can let you know if the "plain white" is available for the AAA lights. He has always been excellent to deal with.


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## snowlover91 (Mar 26, 2017)

this_is_nascar said:


> It's quite simple..... because most of my use requires a very dim output from the onset. I can always switch to medium if and when required.



Yeah basically what I mentioned, it must depend on how people use their light. I prefer it starting in medium myself as that is much more beneficial for my keychain light but I can see how others would prefer a start in low for other uses. They should offer a version of each or make the driver easily customizable so we can select the option preferred.


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## jon_slider (Mar 26, 2017)

snowlover91 said:


> They should offer a version of each or make the driver easily customizable so we can select the option preferred.



, that would cost extra
fwiw, for people that want LMH, Lumintop does make a couple AAA lights with that sequence.. the ReyLights, and the Prometheus Beta Copper (w PWM), and possibly the upcoming Massdrop Brass Tool.

Maybe write to CountyComm and suggest LMH, "after thousands of requests", they might do it. Be sure to mention how low a low you want, and be sure to say if you do NOT want PWM, or we might end up with something like the AA version (LMH, but the low is 5-12 lumens, depending which version of the specs you read, AND it uses PWM)

The nice thing about the Maratac w Nichia is that the driver is better regulated, w longer runtime, than the recent Tools, and still NoPWM. Pre Oct 2015 Maratacs have been PWM based. They seem to be rotating back to PWM drivers, if the AA is any indication.

I suspect CountyComm is not that savvy, and may not know that some of us want NoPWM


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## snowlover91 (Mar 26, 2017)

I actually prefer the MLH like they have it now though. I wish my titanium AA was the same instead of LMH. Medium is my most used mode on every light I own, the only times I use low modes is when it's completely dark and I don't want to wake up the baby or ruin my night vision. Otherwise it's always medium or high which is a good 90% of my use. I prefer they stick with the MLH personally


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## wolfgaze (Mar 26, 2017)

The MLH mode sequence is ideal for my uses too... I'm using Medium mode 98% of the time... Essentially, for me, these lights are like a single mode twisty...


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## cancow (Mar 26, 2017)

They make these all the time. They make them, run out, and make another batch. AA copper is what they need to make another batch of. Maybe even a 2AA copper!


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## sbslider (Mar 26, 2017)

Best I can tell so far my Maratac Nichia AAA appears to be regulated. I base this on the visual run time test I just completed (40 + minutes) of what appears to my eyes as constant output. I have not tried a 4 hour test on medium yet, perhaps tomorrow while I am at work I will run the worm and Maratac at the same time. Then at the end of the day take a look at the voltage and current characteristics to see if they also suggest the light is regulated.


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## MJGEGB (Mar 27, 2017)

I'm another big fan of the MLH mode sequence. The Rev one Maratac AAA was my first decent LED light and I came to realize that the sequence worked best for me. It was my soul EDC light for about 6 years give or take until in gave up it's ghost. I ordered the new copper Nichia version​ as a replacement as soon as I became aware of it. I really like the Nichia on my L08 but the size, weight and mode sequence make it a no go for my personal EDC.

I find the medium mode is enough light 90% of the time, low is my second most used mode and I can always cover the front of the light while switching modes. And with the number of random light sources in a modern home I find a sub lumen mode to be pretty ineffective so the L08 has become my go to for camping trips. My new Maratac should be waiting for me when I get home. For me it seems like about the perfect light.


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## snowlover91 (Mar 27, 2017)

For those wondering how quickly copper develops a patina, I've had mine for a few days now and it's already developing a nice patina so it doesn't take long at all.


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## jon_slider (Mar 27, 2017)

snowlover91 said:


> patina



for someone who wants to develop patina on a copper light, I suggest wiping it down with alcohol, to strip any oil residue from the manufacturing process

patina can be accelerated with ammonia, salt, plant food, seawater, and also builds more quickly in humid climates. Setting the light outdoors in the rain will also accelerate patina.. 

yes, urine will also accelerate patina, but then every time you use the light, you might be reminded of where its been.. so for me, Urine patina is not ideal, though certainly effective 

Im not attached to patina, mine comes and goes depending how much I handle the light. Sometimes I even repolish my copper lights, just for fun, or because I lego and want to match old and new to restart patina together..

for our patina viewers, here are some variations


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## wolfgaze (Mar 27, 2017)

My light is already darkening and showing signs of developing a patina... 5 days out of the vacuum-sealed bag....


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## MJGEGB (Mar 28, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> My light is already darkening and showing signs of developing a patina... 5 days out of the vacuum-sealed bag....



I just got mine in last night, and it almost immediately started to form a patina after handling it. Of course being that it was immediately put into the roll of my primary EDC flashlight, tossed on my keychain and put to use installing a new window regulator/motor in my truck it's probably no surprise.

The weight is definitely noticeable compared to my old aluminum version. 1oz empty vs .4oz for the Aluminum. The light weight backpacker part of me is conflicted, but the reality is it olny makes a difference so far when using the light hands free via the mouth hold. As others have stated the threads are smooth, the knurling feels fantastic, better than the harsh knurling on the Lumintop Tools that I own. It looks great, and the tint is amazing. The UI is responsive and I haven't noticed any flickering like I have seen on my PWM based drivers. To be clear I don't mean the PWM itself but the light output itself would occasionally flicker on those older drivers on at least two examples that I have. Needless to say, I'm very happy with the new Maratac AAA Rev 4 Copper Nichia so far. Looking forward to using and abusing it for years to come.


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## sbslider (Mar 28, 2017)

MJGEGB said:


> The weight is definitely noticeable compared to my old aluminum version. 1oz empty vs .4oz for the Aluminum. The light weight backpacker part of me is conflicted, but the reality is it old makes a difference so far when using the light hands free via the mouth hold.



I hear you on this. What I decided was 0.5oz won't break my pack, and trying to find another black item versus the nice colored copper item is worth it.


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## jon_slider (Mar 28, 2017)

MJGEGB said:


> using the light hands free via the mouth hold


Great report, congrats!
Im also weight sensitive, but for a Copper Maratac, I make the exception
Copper is a very special material to me. It disinfects itself in 90 minutes, so the "germs" from my mouth are sterilized before the next use. I also use my copper light as a hand sanitizer (never said I wasn't weird.. LOL)

I also use a mouth hold at times, and when Im wearing a cap, instead of a beret, I really like the option to clip the Maratac to my hat (thanks to the reversible pocket clip) for hands free use:





note I have bobbed the tail of the clip so it no longer prevents tailstanding





another useful trick, for me, is to keep a magnet available in my car, so I can attach the light, and aim it: (these are on my fridge for illustration)















here I have one neodymium above and below the map band on the visor. Magnets live there, they do not come off when I remove the light





another example, in my camper (which has a lot of exposed magnetic surfaces)





note the magnets are binding to the battery, it has nothing to do with the material the light is made of, and I do not glue the magnets to anything.. completely movable.

one more magnet example, this is a cell phone holder, the rubber coated magnet clips to the air vent


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## wolfgaze (Mar 28, 2017)

*Currently I'm trying to find out if CountyComm would be open to stocking these pocket clips in the stainless steel finish...I will update this thread if/when I receive more info....*


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## gunga (Mar 28, 2017)

snowlover91 said:


> I actually prefer the MLH like they have it now though. I wish my titanium AA was the same instead of LMH. Medium is my most used mode on every light I own, the only times I use low modes is when it's completely dark and I don't want to wake up the baby or ruin my night vision. Otherwise it's always medium or high which is a good 90% of my use. I prefer they stick with the MLH personally



Want me to swap it to m-l-h?

Edit: never mind, I thought you were talking about AAA. I can swap AAA to m-l-h. Not AA.


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## wolfgaze (Mar 29, 2017)

It looks like we may see the stainless steel pocket clips available thru CountyComm in approximately 2 months time - for anyone who's interested....


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## rickdarris2004 (Mar 29, 2017)

Just ordered one up. Great looking little light. Would be interested in the steel clip as well. I will have to keep an eye out!


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## jon_slider (Mar 29, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> stainless steel pocket clips


maybe contact Lumintop for spare Titool clips
I predict a copper plated clip on a Cutool w electronic switch, will follow the brass plated clip on the Brass Tool 


_UPz said:


>



I tried the Silver clip on my CuMararac, and Cutool, and decided the black clip looks better with the copper patina color, once it is not shiny new.. YMMV


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## wolfgaze (Mar 29, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> maybe contact Lumintop for spare Titool clips
> I predict a copper plated clip on a Cutool w electronic switch, will follow the brass plated clip on the Brass Tool



I looked into that but Lumintop doesn't have the clips for sale on their site and I need to order 2-3 of them, so it's unlikely if I contact their service dept that they would be able to send me that many... So I'll just wait for CC to stock them and I'll order them at $2.50 a pop...


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## wolfgaze (Mar 29, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> I tried the Silver clip on my CuMararac, and Cutool, and decided the black clip looks better with the copper patina color, once it is not shiny new.. YMMV



That brass clip looks like it would match well with the titanium Tool and it's gold ring on the head... 

Swap them and take a photo : D


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## wolfgaze (Mar 29, 2017)

jon_slider said:


>



When I clip my other Maratac to my hat, I prefer to attach so that the light is under the brim...


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## J Smith (Mar 29, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> *Currently I'm trying to find out if CountyComm would be open to stocking these pocket clips in the stainless steel finish...I will update this thread if/when I receive more info....*



Just grab a Dremel and polishing wheel. Doesn't take long.


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## wolfgaze (Mar 29, 2017)

J Smith said:


> Just grab a Dremel and polishing wheel. Doesn't take long.



Two items I don't currently own...


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## MJGEGB (Mar 30, 2017)

My Copper Nichia Rev 4 and the only picture I bothered to take while it was still shinny. Being that I keychain carry, I don't bother with the pocket clip. I did however make a headband for my aaa lights a while back out of a section of elastic.


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## bigfoot (Apr 8, 2017)

About to pull the trigger on one of these new Maratac AAA combos (Rev. 4 Copper / Nichia 219). Looking through the thread, am I reading correctly that there is *no* PWM with these? Thanks fellow CPF'ers!


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## sbslider (Apr 8, 2017)

I am no expert on PWM, but I know those who do care greatly about PWM have stated that this light does not use PWM. 



jon_slider said:


> It does not fall short on even one single criteria that I consider a priority. _*NoPWM*_, High CRI, neutral CCT, noGreen Tint, reversible pocket clip, tailstand capable, antibacterial, aesthetically pleasing, smooth action.




It is a nice light for sure.


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## Zak (Apr 8, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> Yeah exactly, there's no such thing as 138 lumens for 70 minutes with Nichia! That's the only downside of Nichia's LED



Not with AAA there isn't. You're not going to get 168 lumens per watt with current LEDs, a 1.2V battery and a boost driver at all.

Here's a runtime graph from my Thrunite Ti5 with the original XP-L and a 219C. Both are about 40 minutes to 10%, suggesting to me that to nearly double that would require either much worse regulation than the Ti5 or a large timed stepdown.


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## sbslider (Apr 9, 2017)

Withdrawn, I can play nicely I promise . . .:naughty:


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## Nichia! (Apr 9, 2017)

PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT (( Thrunite )) Topic!! It's is about NICHIA AND COPPER AND MARATAC WHICH IS THRUNITE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THESE ARE!!!!
Please STOP Mentioning Thrunite here For what ever the reason are Never Ever Again......Ever!!!


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## snowlover91 (Apr 9, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT (( Thrunite )) Topic!! It's is about NICHIA AND COPPER AND MARATAC WHICH IS THRUNITE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THESE ARE!!!!
> Please STOP Mentioning Thrunite here For what ever the reason are Never Ever Again......Ever!!!



I believe the comparison and runtime graphic was done to show what a nichia in a AAA light is capable of. There's nothing wrong with someone using that to show how runtime/brightness would be on a similar light as it helps to understand the efficiency of the Nichia led with a similar driver/battery. Either way, the post by Zak was definitely relevant and helpful in giving an idea of what a Nichia on AAA is capable of.


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## Zak (Apr 12, 2017)

I'm trying to illustrate what relatively flat regulation with similar output and a higher-efficiency LED (both the XP-L and 219C are more efficient than the 219B) looks like, not get into Maratac vs. Thrunite or anybody else. One AAA battery won't produce 138 lumens for 70 minutes with *any* current LED. There is a stepdown/rampdown, or the runtime would be substantially shorter, like the Ti5's is.


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## jon_slider (Apr 12, 2017)

the Maratac spec of 138 lumens is not accurate for the Nichia version. The most I get is 91 lumens. I hope others with better equipment will update the runtime curves
here is High Mode on Eneloop Pro
vertical scale is lumens, horizontal scale is minutes


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## wolfgaze (Apr 12, 2017)

I'm wondering if SelfBuilt will review this light? I'm really curious to find out what the runtime is on Medium mode.... 

Jon, what do you measure the lumen output to be on this mode?


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## jon_slider (Apr 12, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> Medium mode.... lumen output?



On my home-brew meter, My Maratac AAA w Nichia reads 24/3/91 Lumens, MLH

Medium:





Low:





High:


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## sbslider (Apr 12, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> I'm wondering if SelfBuilt will review this light? I'm really curious to find out what the runtime is on Medium mode....


I measured the current draw of this light as well as the Lumintop Worm, and Lumintop Copper Tool. I found that all three light drew close to the same current on high, but the Maratac draws about 8% more than the worm on Medium. I would expect about 8% shorter run time. 

I recall running a test on the Maratac also and found the data:
On medium mode I found the Maratac to start dimming around 3 hours 40 minutes, while the Worm starts dimming right at 4 hours. Looks closer to 9% shorter.


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## Zak (Apr 12, 2017)

91 lumens for 40 minutes is much more in line with what I expected. Thanks for the graph.

If anybody has one of these things, an Android device and a desire to make graphs without having to take manual readings every few minutes, there's an app for that.


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## wolfgaze (Apr 12, 2017)

Thank you both for the replies... 

sbslider, which type of battery was utilized for the runtime... Eneloop Pro?


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## sbslider (Apr 12, 2017)

wolfgaze said:


> Thank you both for the replies...
> 
> sbslider, which type of battery was utilized for the runtime... Eneloop Pro?


 you're welcome

standard eneloops. I have the white ones and some green ones that I found in the recycled battery pile . . . They seem to work just as well as the white ones I purchased. I don't recall which ones I used for my test, but I do recall I did it twice and go the same result twice. The test I ran twice was to run the worm and Maratac both powered by eneloops (mixture if whites and greens) on medium until I could observe with my eyes a dimming of light. I don't have a meter, but I will likely investigate the app mentioned above for future tests. ..


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## bigfoot (Apr 13, 2017)

Yes, awesome info, thanks for sharing!


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## jon_slider (Apr 13, 2017)

Maratac w Nichia on Left, Fenix E01 on right.


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## LightObsession (Apr 13, 2017)

Your fingers make the EO1 beam look purple : )


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## this_is_nascar (Apr 13, 2017)

The tint of the E01 is blueish.


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## Nichia! (Nov 17, 2017)

*Is it true that countycomm changed the led on aaa copper from 219b to C ?????
any proof ???*


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## Nichia! (Nov 18, 2017)

Anyone??


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## jon_slider (Nov 20, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> *Is it true that countycomm changed the led on aaa copper from 219b to C ?????
> any proof ???*



No, 
I just asked my modder to check the LEDs he removed from a recent AAA Copper Maratac that came w Nichia, and a recent AAA Copper Tool w Nichia.

The removed LEDs were N219b. 

I did not like how much yellow was in their tint, and how little rosy/pink, so I had them replaced, with other N219b that have higher Pink levels.

Not all N219b are rosy/pink...

suggestion, the Lee Filters -1/8 or -1/4 green gel helps reduce yellow too.. they add a nice strawberry rose pink tint to yellow nichias.. such as the 219c also


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## Nichia! (Nov 21, 2017)

Where did you get the N219b 9080?


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## Nichia! (Nov 21, 2017)

Here's what countycomm sent me


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## eh4 (Nov 21, 2017)

For 48$ they should have offered Low-Med-High as well as Med-Low-High. 
I've been looking for an upgraded version of the Thrunite Ti3, but I'll have to pass on this one, some day though it'll come to be.


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## eh4 (Nov 21, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT (( Thrunite )) Topic!! It's is about NICHIA AND COPPER AND MARATAC WHICH IS THRUNITE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THESE ARE!!!!
> Please STOP Mentioning Thrunite here For what ever the reason are Never Ever Again......Ever!!!



Wow man, Woweewowwowwow! Like . 
- how about a L-M-H option for a 48$ light, and I don't mention the unmentionable... deal?

A one second hit of Med before reaching Low might mean a 20x hit in the runtime of Low, along with a period of night vision accommodation if we don't remember to close eyes during the time in Med. 
But really maybe that's not a big deal. 
Any way you look at it, L-M-H and M-L-H should be Options, we're probably talking about a few more pennies expense for some minimal programmability.


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## jon_slider (Nov 21, 2017)

Nichia! said:


> Where did you get the N219b 9080?


from a modder who had stock from Clemence.. maybe ask gunga if he can help you...



eh4 said:


> For 48$ they should have offered Low-Med-High



I dont think LMH is going to happen from Maratac
If you want an LMH Lumintop, you can contract with them directly, but you have to buy 500 units.

You can have LMH with PWM in the Prometheus Beta Copper w N219b. 
The Prometheus head works on the Maratac body. (larger gap, but works)... 

You can have LMH with NoPWM in the ReyLight Copper Tool.
The Reylight head works on the Maratac body. (larger gap, but works)... 

Copper AAA Maratac, Beta, Worm, and Tool, are all made by Lumintop and use N219b





oh, and there is a ReyLight AAA Pineapple, by Lumintop, and its LMH too.., w N219c.. Im guessing the head fits a Maratac body
and there is a Lumintop Brass Tool, also LMH, and I'm guessing its head also fits the Maratac Body..

---
update 12/3/17


Nichia! said:


> *Is it true that countycomm changed the led on aaa copper from 219b to C ?????
> any proof ???*



where did you hear that?

fwiw, I just learned that Lumintop has started shipping 219c in the black Tool:

http://budgetlightforum.com/node/57644


d_t_a said:


> LuminTop Tool AAA...





chouster said:


> The Tool definitely has a 219C in it.


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## Nichia! (Dec 6, 2017)

jon_slider said:


> from a modder who had stock from Clemence.. maybe ask gunga if he can help you...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is bad very bad news


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## jon_slider (Dec 6, 2017)

the good news is they can be modified. I Love the Maratac as a Host for other Nichias





LEDs l-r are: 3000k 219c 9050 w 1/4 -grn, 4000k 219b 9080 w 1/8 -grn, 4500k 219b 9080


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## gurdygurds (Dec 6, 2017)

Those always look really cool to me. Especially with your shortened clips. Good stuff.


jon_slider said:


> the good news is they can be modified. I Love the Maratac as a Host for other Nichias
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jon_slider (Dec 6, 2017)

gurdygurds said:


> shortened clips.



thanks for noticing.. I love the versatility of the Maratac reversible clip.. I often put my EDC Maratac on a hat to free my hands up.. and its such a nice light to tail stand with the shortened clip 

I like pretty much everything about the shortened clip, including how it works as an anti roll device, and the feel in hand is more pleasant, for me, than the stock length.

more maratac trivia, re photo above
looking at the bodies (the heads have been swapped around), 


the center light is from April 2015, note the sophisticated and aggressive knurling with dimples in the peaks. this model had PWM and no Nichia option. it also has short threads, as does the Tool, so they lego both ways

on the right is an Oct 2015 model, no dimples, but each diamond is contoured beautifully, its my favorite knurling. and NoPWM, but also came w no Nichia option. These have longer threads, the Maratac body works w a Tool head, but new maratac heads won't work on a Tool body.

on the left is the April? 2016 and later model. The knurling is just lines scored through to make diamonds that are flat.. feels smoother to the touch.. mostly cosmetic.. NoPWM and YES Nichia!

If Ive managed to confuse you, let me just say
Present Maratacs are no PWM, and with Nichia.. thats a winning combo in my book! The knurling is smooth and I accept that as part of the cost reduction we are seeing. Recommended


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## dhunley1 (Dec 7, 2017)

That 3000k 219c looks really nice!


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## neutralwhite (Dec 7, 2017)

nice where can you get ? - clemence ?


dhunley1 said:


> That 3000k 219c looks really nice!


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## jon_slider (Dec 7, 2017)

dhunley1 said:


> That 3000k 219c looks really nice!



We have similar good taste, thanks 



neutralwhite said:


> nice where can you get ? - clemence ?



thanks, the modder I use had the LEDs in their stock, and yes, they came from Clemence

fwiw, I had two 3000k Maratacs built, one is available.. PM me if anyone is interested in buying it, and or if you want the contact info for my modder


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## RCS1300 (Feb 25, 2018)

jon_slider said:


> I often put my EDC Maratac on a hat to free my hands up..



Thanks for your input in this thread. I ordered a Maratac AAA nicha. It arrives tomorrow. Got it in aluminum because I heard that copper makes your hands dirty .

Regarding a baseball cap light I recently found the Olight S1 MINI baton to be excellent - incredibly lightweight, small footprint, and has good run times with RCR123 batteries. It comes in either CRI 70 or CRI 90 renderings. The CRI 90 is not a Nichia emitter and reviewers say it has a green tint.


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## Timothybil (Feb 25, 2018)

Countycomm has just announce a single AAA Maratac Copper light with a right angle head that is somewhat floody. Only available with a CREE emitter, but I wouldn't be surprised if a Nichia version shows up on Massdrop one of these days.


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## wolfgaze (Feb 27, 2018)

RCS1300 said:


> Thanks for your input in this thread. I ordered a Maratac AAA nicha. It arrives tomorrow. Got it in aluminum because I heard that copper makes your hands dirty .



Give it a couple weeks before you finding yourself ALSO wanting the Copper version and eventually placing a 2nd order... 

:thumbsup:


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## wolfgaze (Feb 27, 2018)

FYI, a few months ago I was emailing CountyComm and found out that there should be a Maratac AAA *Titanium* light with Nichia 219B emitter that should be released sometime this calendar year...


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## this_is_nascar (Feb 28, 2018)

Never liked the concept of a copper or brass light. Too heavy to EDC.


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