# PT Apex mod?



## ArisaemaDracontium (Aug 5, 2007)

I am looking to make my PT Apex a bit brighter. I have read on these forums about people modding their Apexes to make an "Apex +" so it sounds like its been done before. Can someone explain how this mod is done?

Can I use a Seoul P4 emitter like the one used in the EOS? Can the Apex just drive this emitter harder or is there another emitter I need to look at?

It looks like the emitter in the Apex is bonded to the heat sink how do I go about removing and replacing it? Also, can I simply use the stock optic or do I need to replace it with a reflector?

Thanks!


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## peteybaby (Aug 5, 2007)

Hi there. Look at this thread: http://candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=141392&page=2&pp=30

And look for a detailed procedure from "Meduza".

The only things I would add are:

- Be VERY careful handling the SSC P4. I damaged mine physically by accidentally lifting/deforming the gummy dome lens on it while trying to press the emitter into place with needlenose pliers. I had to order another emitter and wait another week or two. :sigh:

- I asked a bunch of people who had already performed this mod whether they used thermal compound (like white grease) or thermal epoxy (like white grease that dries into a hard epoxy glue), because I couldn't decide which one to use. Epoxy supposedly gives you better electrical isolation than the compound. I didn't get a conclusive answer, so I tried just re-using the thermal compound that was on the original emitter. My first emitter swap failed, but I'm about 80% confident that it was because of the damaged gummy dome. However, there's still a chance that the failure was due to the un-isolated P4 emitter. Therefore, as long as you are pretty confident that you won't make any mistakes, and you're pretty sure you won't want to replace the emitter a 2nd time, I'd suggest using the thermal epoxy. That's what I used for my 2nd attempt, and everything's working fine now.

I should add that I was as careful as a surgeon the 2nd time I did the swap.


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## cave dave (Aug 5, 2007)

There are a couple threads on modding the Apex. Do a search

In the pic you can see where the emitter is. It doesn't seem to be glued down, just a bit of thermal paste under it.
1) just pull it up and desolder it

2) trim or bend tabs of new SSC P4 emitter up, you don't want them to touch the metal heatsink

3) If you are going to use a reflector cut small plastic alignment tabs off. These are the little nubs at 3 and 9o'clock in the plastic around the emitter and fit into the holes of the optic holder and will interfere with the seating of the reflector. 

4) make sure polarity is correct (black wire goes to side with notch). Solder the new emitter in place. Quickly test emitter.

5) Clean heatsink and put a light even layer of thermal epoxy on the bottom of the new emitter and push it back in place. Don't push too hard you want a *thin *layer to isolate electrical contact of emitter pad and heatsink (some debate if this is true, make layer as thin as possible)

6) Reflector is optional depending on the beam you want. There are several to choose from see PhotonFanatic sell posts.

7) Put reflector in and make sure it seats well. (see #3) (might want to do this before you glue anything.)

8) I had to glue reflector in place with homemade legs since its undersized. This is the hardest part.

9) To really pimp it out add tritium vials around the reflector or between the 5mm LEDs


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## cave dave (Aug 5, 2007)

Note:
You can buy the P4 star, reflector, and thermal epoxy from one place. Photonfanatic, Also the sandwich shoppe.


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## peteybaby (Aug 5, 2007)

cave dave said:


> There are a couple threads on modding the apex. Do a search
> 
> In the pic you can see where the emitter is. It doesn't seem to be glued down, just a bit of thermal paste under it.
> 1) just pull it up and desolder it
> ...




I agree with 1, 2, 4, and 5. Good points. #3 I didn't do because I just re-used the stock optic.


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## ArisaemaDracontium (Aug 15, 2007)

Thanks everybody. I ordered the parts from PhotonFanatic and modified my light tonight. Went surprisingly well for only my second light modding experience (the first one being a mere 30 minutes earlier!) Special thanks to 'cave dave' for you're images and note about the polarity. I had initially started putting it together backwards, without you I would have ruined the emitter!

Last week I also added about 3 feet of cable between the lamp and the battery pack. With the significantly brighter light and the ability to store the battery pack in a backpack/camelbak or even a butt pocket, this light has become significantly more useful to me.

thanks again,


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## bendlite (Aug 15, 2007)

ArisaemaDracontium said:


> ... I also added about 3 feet of cable between the lamp and the battery pack.



What connectors did you use? I found some assemble-them-yourself connectors at Radio S**t. I was not very impressed with them.

thanks, John


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## ArisaemaDracontium (Aug 15, 2007)

I too had thought about using plugs so I could install and remove this extension whenever I wanted. But in the end i had enough parts laying around the house to just get it done, and I couldn't think of a situation where I would _need_ to remove the extra cable, so I just spliced it.

I used these little aluminum connectors my father had given me (he does some electrical work at his job). They are small tubes about 1/2" long with a divider in the middle as well as a hole. 

You strip a bit of the insulation off, one of the wires, say the positive wire coming out of the headlamp stick it in this Al tube and crimp it in place. Do the same for the wire you're splicing in, sticking it in the other end of the tube. Then I dropped a little sodder in the little hole in the middle to make it a bit more secure. Finally slide some heat shrink wrap over it for insulation. Repeat for the negative wire. Then shrink wrap over the whole thing. Repeat for the other end of the spliced in wire. 

Pretty crude, but it works. So far it's been totally solid.


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## cave dave (Aug 30, 2007)

I got around to comparing my modded Apex to some other lights. In a bounce test the modded Apex is brighter than my moded HDS which is in turn brighter than a Novatac 120P. It is also as bright as a stock Stenlight S7.

Wow! If the 120P numbers can be relied on that means its putting out ~130 lm out the front.


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## NoFair (Aug 30, 2007)

Mine does seem quite a bit brighter than a Fenix P3D 

Tint is warm and in my view perfect. Got the emitters from Photonfanatic

I tested my emitters and put the best one in my HDS and one in each of my Apex'. The Pro does have slightly more throw than the normal one, but that might just be because of wear on the plastic lens on the AA one which is one of the first once released.

Sverre


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## Avatar28 (Sep 18, 2007)

cave dave said:


> 9) To really pimp it out add tritium vials around the reflector or between the 5mm LEDs



Where (and can) you find those in the US? I may try ordering the parts to mod my apex this weekend and that would make a cool addition. I've not been especially happy with the color temp of the quad LEDs on mine but as you have noted before, the Luxeon is a bit to spotty. Also where did you order a diffuser from? I am going to be ordering a P3D (most likely) that I will be able to for throw if I need it so I would rather have a nice, floody main light on the Apex.


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## cave dave (Sep 18, 2007)

When you order the LED from Photonfanatic get both a smooth and stippled reflector. Try the new LED with the various combos to see which you will like. The new LED will produce a different pattern even with the stock optic. (It has a larger die area so the beam spreads out more)


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## Avatar28 (Sep 29, 2007)

cave dave said:


> When you order the LED from Photonfanatic get both a smooth and stippled reflector. Try the new LED with the various combos to see which you will like. The new LED will produce a different pattern even with the stock optic. (It has a larger die area so the beam spreads out more)



Would one size reflector give me more flood than the other?


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## mountainpenguin (Sep 29, 2007)

I did this last week. Not tried the modded apex underground yet but to be honest i am not sure i can see much difference. The tint is much whiter though


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## cave dave (Sep 29, 2007)

Avatar28 said:


> Would one size reflector give me more flood than the other?


Could you define what you mean by "more flood"?

A reflector definitely has a wider spill angle then the stock optic for instance.

The textured reflector has more light in the corona, a less intense spot, and a smoother transition from spot to spill, but the spill angle is basically the same as a smooth reflector.


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## Avatar28 (Sep 29, 2007)

cave dave said:


> Could you define what you mean by "more flood"?
> 
> A reflector definitely has a wider spill angle then the stock optic for instance.
> 
> The textured reflector has more light in the corona, a less intense spot, and a smoother transition from spot to spill, but the spill angle is basically the same as a smooth reflector.



As in there is less of a spot and a lot more spill around it. Basically less range but it lights up the area close to you better (sort of how the 5mm LEDs on the Apex do).


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## RGB_LED (Oct 10, 2007)

ArisaemaDracontium said:


> Last week I also added about 3 feet of cable between the lamp and the battery pack. With the significantly brighter light and the ability to store the battery pack in a backpack/camelbak or even a butt pocket, this light has become significantly more useful to me.


ArisaemaDracontium, I'm also looking at doing this mod on my Apex and have been scouring the forum for information on extending the cable in order to store the pack in a hydration pack for mountain biking.

I was thinking of cutting the cable before the battery pack, using automotive clips, then adding an extension cable so that I have the option of using the headlamp with the headband but also using an extension cable in order to hold the pack in a hydration pack. Just curious to know how you added your extension cable. Do you have any pics?


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## NoFair (Oct 10, 2007)

Avatar28 said:


> As in there is less of a spot and a lot more spill around it. Basically less range but it lights up the area close to you better (sort of how the 5mm LEDs on the Apex do).



If you put scotch tape over the lens you acheive just this effect. Cheap, effective and reversable.

The Seoul led gives a slightly more floody beam than the Luxeon with the stock optic as well.

Sverre


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## Avatar28 (Oct 11, 2007)

NoFair said:


> If you put scotch tape over the lens you acheive just this effect. Cheap, effective and reversable.
> 
> The Seoul led gives a slightly more floody beam than the Luxeon with the stock optic as well.
> 
> Sverre



I was thinking about trying the scotch tape idea. My current thinking is to convert the main LED of the Apex into a pure flood light, or at least as much as I can manage, and then to use a pair of L2Ds or P3Ds mounted one one each side of my helmet to provide more mid and long range light, probably running them in high mode for the most part.


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## NoFair (Oct 11, 2007)

Avatar28 said:


> I was thinking about trying the scotch tape idea. My current thinking is to convert the main LED of the Apex into a pure flood light, or at least as much as I can manage, and then to use a pair of L2Ds or P3Ds mounted one one each side of my helmet to provide more mid and long range light, probably running them in high mode for the most part.



If you remove the optic totally you get a pure flood beam. You loose a bit of light since the led is recessed a bit behind the lens, but it is a quick and easy thing to do. 
I'd try this or tape first.

Sverre


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## cbubu (Oct 12, 2007)

Just modded my APEX :






keep a nice throw and win a nice spill :twothumbs

Regards,


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## NoFair (Oct 14, 2007)

cbubu said:


> Just modded my APEX :
> 
> keep a nice throw and win a nice spill :twothumbs
> 
> Regards,



Very nice! 

Any trouble getting the reflector to fit?

Sverre


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## cbubu (Oct 14, 2007)

@NoFair,
the McR 18mm is a little too short so I glue some O-rings to make it touch the lens and then stay in position :












A McR 20mm (about 14mm long) should be a better choice.
Regards,


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## NoFair (Oct 14, 2007)

Very nice! 

Thanks for posting the pictures. Might have to put a new reflector in one of mine now


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## Avatar28 (Oct 26, 2007)

Did the mod yesterday. I probably should have taken pics but I didn't think about it. The upgrade really was simple. I can't say that the connection of the wires to the leads is the absolute best solder joint I've ever done, but it seemed secure enough and I was afraid of cooking the LED since my soldering iron is a bit on the hot side. If my helping hands device from radio shack wasn't broken, I would have held a piece of metal against the back for heat sinking and it wouldn't have concerned me as much.

Anyways, other than blinding myself when I tested the LED and cracking the orange part of the case slightly due to a bonehead mistake, it went well. The crack happened because I got in a hurry to finish up and forgot to put the protective plastic back over the heatsink before trying to screw it in and then forced the screw in too far. It's not bad, though, and nothing a tiny smear of silicone won't take care of.

Thanks for the clear instructions. I used a neutral white bin P4 and a 20mm reflector. The reflector proved to be too large and I had to take some of it off. I found that a dremel grinding wheel running on it's lowest speed (5000 rpm) worked fairly well for doing that. it's not perfectly even but it was close enough. Beam is now VERY floody. Almost no discernable hot spot at all. I have a feeling that I am not going to have any need for FastCar's diffuser material after all.


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## cbubu (Oct 26, 2007)

I replaced the McR 18mm reflector by a McR 20 mm. No more need of O-rings but I had to short the McR 20 : about 0.5mm




Here are the beamshots:




Just happy with this mod 
@ Avatar28 : if you have a look at the first picture, you will understand that you are not the only one who craks the case ... ;-)


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## greenLED (Oct 26, 2007)

nice, cbubu. How much of a gap is left around the McR20 after the mod compared to this pic posted before:


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## cbubu (Oct 26, 2007)

@greenLED : just no gap  the reflector completely fills the lens




Regards,


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## greenLED (Oct 26, 2007)

Suh-WEET!! 

OK, now I'm sold on this mod.

:thanks:


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## greenLED (Oct 26, 2007)

I forgot to ask, did you shim the P4 emitter? and/or did you sand a bit off the base of the McR20 to achieve proper focus? Did you then sand of the top of the reflector to make the whole thing fit?

:thanks:


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## cbubu (Oct 27, 2007)

The SSCP4 is directly glued to the metal heatsink with thermal epoxy. The reflector is a McR20Seoul so you don't have to sand the base to get a proper focus : I sand the top of the reflector to short it of 0.5 mm.
Regards,


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## greenLED (Oct 28, 2007)

Ah, cool! I have a regular McR20 en route, so I guess I'll have to modify both ends.


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## Avatar28 (Nov 7, 2007)

When I did my mod, I just used a dab of Arctic Silver 5 between the base of the emitter and the heatsink. It was a really tight fit to get it back into the frame (I had tried to cut the black frame out but my snips were too big so I elected to just leave it. The damage I did to the plastic made it a tighter fit than it otherwise would have been though. I think that I had been able to do so the reflector probably would have fit vertically but he frame holds the LED firmly so I'm okay with it the way it is. I did not sand anything off the bottom of the reflector, but I had to lose a good couple of mm off the top of it to get it to fit back in there. The lens presses against it tightly so it's a good fit and doesn't move at all. I get even less of a spot than the beamshots that were posted.

I don't really have a white wall to use, so a gray one will have to do I'm afraid. Actually, in retrospect I could have used the front wall of the house but it's too cold to go back out there at the moment. So gray it is. Pics were taken at ISO200, 1/30th sec exposure at F2.8. Wall was about 6-8 feet away (I'm terrible with estimating distance, sorry).

First the Apex. Even though you can see something of a spot in the picture, it's rather less noticable in real world usage.





Now for comparison, my P3D Rebel on turbo at the same settings.





And finally, the business end of the light. You can see the black plastic of the reflector where I sanded it away. You'll also note that it's not perfectly centered. What can I say, it's hard to hand-hold that reflector against the dremel wheel to sand it down and get it perfectly straight.





The pics really don't do it justice, it really DOES put off a lot more light. I had ordered some of FastCar's diffuser material to go on the light to diffuse it but I'm not sure I'm going to really need it since it's so diffuse now. I'm really not sure why mine came out so much more diffuse than cbubus did. He also did a lot better job with the mod overall I have to say. But I was rather in something of a hurry and I'm happy with the results and that's what counts, right?


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## cbubu (Nov 7, 2007)

@ greenLED : when I saw the last picture of Avatar28 I just remembered that I put a small black O-ring on the top of the reflector, this is why no gap appears on my mod ... just forgot this O-ring :-(
@ Avatar28 : to sand the reflector I used a small drill with an abrasive disc using it with axial push (finger):




Regards,


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## Avatar28 (Nov 7, 2007)

You know, i could have used a cut-off wheel with my Dremel that way if I had thought about it. Although I think I dropped the screw that holds it in place so that might not have worked anyways now that I think about it. That's actually a much better idea, I wish you had said something about that BEFORE I did my mod.  Oh well, not that big of a deal. Maybe if I order any more LEDs from PhotonFanatic I'll get another reflector and give it another go then. It works now, though, so I don't see a lot of point in messing with it.


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## greenLED (Nov 8, 2007)

:thanks: cbubu. I have the emitter now, but haven't had the time to gut the light yet.

As an aside, modding a reflector using sandpaper is a much, much cleaner and easier process to control than with a Dremel. You start with a medium grit and work your way down to finer grit papers. This works well with plastic or metal reflectors.


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## Avatar28 (Nov 9, 2007)

greenLED said:


> :thanks: cbubu. I have the emitter now, but haven't had the time to gut the light yet.
> 
> As an aside, modding a reflector using sandpaper is a much, much cleaner and easier process to control than with a Dremel. You start with a medium grit and work your way down to finer grit papers. This works well with plastic or metal reflectors.



That only works if you have sandpaper handy, which I didn't. In any case, using the flat of one of the cutoff wheels would probably give similar results in MUCH less time.


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## mds82 (Nov 21, 2007)

I just got my PT Apex in the mail today, and it didnt last more then 5 minutes without me modifying it  

Got this headlight because i knew off the bat that would be great to mod and look great. I used the Seoul P4, i forgot the exact bin number, but it was rated at 7000k - 8000k. ( i had some left over from some automotive things i built)

The Mod was very simple and took me 20 minutes Max. Install was easy - didnt need to modify the reflector, just Open it up, remove the Lux III LED which was held in by pressure and thermal paste. Unsoldered it, soldered the Seoul P4, bent the tabs up just a bit as to not short it out. Put some thermal paste back in there, pushed it into place, and put it back together.

The color is perfect i think - its a very cool white. 

The 4 small LED's appear to be VERY Blue at the center, almost like a solid color blue, with a white spill. Its kind of odd, but i can deal with it.


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## Dan_GSR (Jan 5, 2008)

i finished doing this mod today using a 

McR-20 Seoul reflector and Seoul P4 USWOH 
the output is impressive
and the beam shape is much better than stock 
has good throw, and decent spill

thanks to all who helped make this possible


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## Yucca Patrol (Mar 15, 2008)

I just did this mod with one of my Apex lights. I'll do the other one tonight after I compare the two in my backyard. Since this was my first time doing something like this, I kept the stock optics in place. 

The beam looks very nice so I'll probably just leave it as it is.


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## etc (Mar 23, 2008)

Question, how many lumens does this mod gain? 

How many lumens did the original have, and the modded one.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Mar 23, 2008)

Question, how many lumens does this mod gain? 
Answer, shedloads !

Q.How many lumens did the original have, 
A. Not enough !:thumbsdow

Q.and the modded one
A. loads more :twothumbs

If your really asking is this simple mod worth the effort EVERYONE will tell you yes
............the difference really is quite astounding


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## etc (Mar 23, 2008)

It's hard to tell from the pics, before and after look almost identical. Unless someone will post high quality pics?


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## snoboy (Mar 23, 2008)

Check this post from another PT Apex mod thread for detailed shots of various emitter-reflector combos.


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## Mark620 (Mar 23, 2008)

snoboy said:


> Check this post from another PT Apex mod thread for detailed shots of various emitter-reflector combos.



The thing that floors most people is the comparison between the stock STEN .VS. modified APEX.


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## etc (Mar 23, 2008)

Cool, thanks for awesome pics


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## cave dave (Mar 24, 2008)

Stock Apex is rated at 60 lumens (out the front) by the manufacturer. 

My modded Apex is tad bit brighter than the Novatac 120P (rated at 120 Lumens out the front)

Methodology: Ceiling bounce test


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## Yucca Patrol (Mar 24, 2008)

The only close comparison I have for my modified Apex is a Fenix L2D Q5. Although the Q5 is brighter at 175 lumens, the stock optics of the Apex spread the beam nice and wide which will be great for caving. 

I bought the textured reflectors, but am happy with the stock optics. 

So here is my big question that relates to this thread:

I am going to be buying a couple of diving lights and wonder if the stock emitter in the Princeton Tec Torrent LED is the same and could be swapped just like I did in the Apex? PT advertises both as a 3W LED. . . . ?


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## Brlux (Mar 24, 2008)

There is actually no need to electrically Isolate the P4 emitter from the heatsink. The APEX heatsink has no electrical connection to anything else in the light like you would find in a flashlight where the heatsink is carrying the negative battery current. 

A note about the P4 Lumen output, PT rates the Luxeon 3 on high at 60 Lumens which is actually what the Luxeon 3 speck sheet rates the bare LED Lumen output for a drive current of 900mA (which is what the APEX is driving it at on high) The U binned P4 is rated at about 200 lumen minimum and 225 lumen on average of bare LED output at 900mA. 

Not all lumen's produced by the LED will actually make it out the front of your light. When I put a P4 in an APEX I derate the LED output a bit and guesstimate the output to be about 180 lumen's.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Mar 24, 2008)

Yucca Patrol, ... on the Apex the emitter is easily accessible
if you can get to the emitter on the Torrent you shouldn`t have any problems swapping


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## grnamin (Mar 24, 2008)

If you use an SSC P4 or better LED, I think that the best reflector would be the McR20 Seoul, machine/sanded a little bit at the top in order to fit the Apex. I guess I'm just partial to aluminum reflectors.


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## drmaxx (Jul 18, 2008)

I know this is an old almost ancient threat but
I finally did it!​
I finally got the courage to soup up my apex. Till now I did not dare to open the light up, because so far I always got very reliable service from the apex – in situation you simply don’t want to be in the dark. Why change a working system, right?
But now I did it and immediately regret that I didn’t do it earlier! The amount of light is amazing and the beam shape is much nicer. Now I need to do some long-term tests to see, if my thermal epoxy job was somewhat decent.

Thanks everybody for the tips and 
@cave dave: Thanks a lot for your recipe for dummies and the pictures. They were especially helpful for me.


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## boonsht (Jul 18, 2008)

I just did mine today as well. Definitely much better than the stock light and reflector.

I used a smooth reflector McR20 that I sanded down. It's a much better result than using a dremel. Cleaner and neater. Although it leaves a small gap around the edges of it. Doesn't really matter though, since it looks so clean.

Thanks for this awesome write up and I recommend this mod to anyone able to do it. :thumbsup:


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## etc (Aug 26, 2008)

This mod is stunning, exceeded my expectations. Almost as stunning as Malkoff but in a more practical package.

It totally destroys my fav lite, Fenix L2D (Non-Q5 version)

PT Apex, moded:








PT Apex orig:







Fenix L2D: (The 135 lumen version)


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## P220C (Aug 29, 2008)

That's awesome.


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## etc (Aug 30, 2008)

I absolutely love this lite. It make my L2D look weak.

I do wonder if I should change the reflector for more throw, but on the other hand, the flood / throw combo that it offers is very practical.


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## etc (Aug 30, 2008)

Question, can Fenix L2D Q5 compete with this P4-modded Apex?

Lumens wise on paper they look pretty similar. Is that the case in real life? I don't have a Q5 to test against.


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## Sarratt (Aug 30, 2008)

I have the L2d Q5 as well as the Apex. 

They are similar until turbo.....then much more light from the Fenix

the L2d is much brighter


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## etc (Aug 31, 2008)

Thanks for the reassuring news. Any beamshots?


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## hyperslug (Sep 20, 2008)

*Warm White Cree Aspheric PT Apex Mod*





I swapped the stock lux3 with a warm white cree from BestHongKong, found here: besthongkong, warm white cree. Removed emitter. couldn't find a way to cut plastic frame accurately so I just burned it up w/ my soldering iron (apologies to Al Gore). I soldered jumper wires onto the emitter terminals b/c I'm not skilled enough to directly solder the thick wires directly.





The optic holder fits on top and is essentially just a spacer for the aspheric lens.





The aspheric lens is from Kaidomain and is either 22mm or 23mm, it wasn't labeled. Acrylic I think.





I cut out the permanently attached plastic lens out of the housing. I had to drill a hole through it, then use pliers to get it out. It was thick, about 2mm, and didn't come out easily or cleanly. The light is no longer water resistant by any means, not even counting the numerous cracks in the housing.





After numerous mods, this bracket has broken off. The plastic used for this product is brittle. Admittedly, I might have tightened this screw too tightly.





Assembled.

Performance: It's weird. Throws like a champ of course but a little shaky b/c it's a long throw mounted on your head, slightest bob makes beam bounce. 

Also, with powerful beam originating from just above my eyes, the beam hits some of the moisture in the air partially obscures the remote target. Not as big an issue if the beam is from your hand b/c beam reflection is not on top of target. dunno how to explain better.

And if somebody says "Hey Hyperslug.." and I accidentally look at them, they lose night vision for a little while.

color is pretty good, though.

Beamshots later, gotta run


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## hyperslug (Sep 22, 2008)

Beamshots, camera is set at 1/200 for flashlight shots

Ambient, distance to door ~18ft / 5.5m






Apex 4 flood led's high





Apex main beam high





Surefire U2 (for throw/color comparison)


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## loupiote (Nov 11, 2011)

i have never soldered a LED onto a mini PCB board before. is there a good tutorial explaining how to do that?

i wouldn't want to damage one of those high-power LED in the soldering process.


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