# How To Mod a Maglite P7 - 38 PICS



## shdwkeeper

I thought I would put together an updated or a NEW, How To for Maglites Mods. When I was trying to do my first Mod I had to look through multiple articles and posts just to get everything together and then it was trial and error mode. Well so here it goes, this will be my first tutorial on this.

To get started here are some of the parts you are going to need:







Here are the parts I used for this Direct Drive mod:

-3D Maglite
-SSC P7 DSWOI or DSWOJ Bin - I have some of these left or check with PhotonFanatic's stock as well.
-P7 SSC HAIII Heatsink
-Alumina Adhesive - PhotonFanatic or local electronic store
-Artic Compound - PhotonFanatic or local electronic store
-22 or 24 Gauge Teflon Wire - look on Ebay since Mudman is out of 24 Gauge.
-UCL Lens - 52.1mm x 1.90mm

The first thing I did was lay out the heatsinks, LEDS, aluminium foil, Alumina Adhesive, rubbing alcohol, Q-tips, as shown in the picture above.

I then cleaned all the heatsinks contact points and bottom of the LEDs, with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol so the adhesive would get a good bond as shown below.





and the bottom of the LEDs





Now before you epoxy this LED to your heatsink you probably want to cut the tabs a little bit off of the LED. Here is a before photo:





and after cutting the tabs with some small cutters





Cutting these tabs allows you to have a tighter fit with the reflector, it also looks cleaner when you solder the wires to the LED.

Now is the time to mix equal parts of the Alumina epoxy, which I do on aluminum foil.





Once the mixing is done spread a very thin coat of epoxy on top of the heatsink, enough to cover the bottom of the led. You *DO NOT* want too much here, because you don't want the epoxy OOZING out and making contact with your LED tabs and heatsink. Once you have the thin coat of epoxy down, its time to place your LED on the heatsink/epoxy and give it a little bit of downward pressure to make a good seal. I try and line the LED tabs up with the holes in the heatsink as shown below. This gets you in good position to solder the wires to the LED.





Let the LED sit for an hour on top of the heatsink so it dries firmly. That finished up this part.


Now its time to take apart the Maglite. Here are the tools to get started. 
Mini Screwdriver and a 5/64" allen wrench






Take apart the Maglite as shown below and set off to the side.






Use the Mini-flathead screwdriver to remove the rubber cover











Now take the 5/64" allen wrench, insert it into the switch hole and loosen the screw till the switch becomes loose, then slide the switch out the bottom of the Mag tube.










Use the same allen wrench to unscrew the bulb from the switch and set these parts (not sure what you can do with these, backup parts for something else) aside as shown.











Now its time to remove the actual switch from the switch housing so we can modify the housing. Pop the switch and Negative contact out, with a small screw driver.











Now, this is where the fun begins. I use a dremel to cut the housing, some people actually use a lathe which looks nicer. But, no one is going to see this housing once its inside the the Mag tube.










Now, we need to do the same thing with the stock reflector.











Once all the dremel work is done, its time to break out the soldering iron and get ready to wire the light together. Get your 24 gauge Teflon wire out and cut 2 lengths. The Positive side (Red in my pictures) about 5 inches, and the Negative side (Black in my pictures) about 4 inches. You can trim these to the right lengths once you put the switch back into the Mag tube.






Once you put the switch back into the new Modified housing, bend down the Negative strip as far as it will go. The positive contact is in the middle of the switch. I also pre-tin everything with solder so it makes connecting the wires easier when that time comes. Use flux if you have it, it makes soldering much cleaner and easier.






Now solder the two wires to the switch contacts. Once that is done, put the switch back into the Maglite tube and secure it with the 5/64" Allen wrench.











Now the part you have been waiting for. Solder the Positive wire "RED" to the "+" LED tab and the Negative wire "BLACK" to the "-" LED tab. How do you tell the difference between the Positive and Negative LED tab? The Negative side has a little hole in the top of the tab if you are looking down on it (See Picture #7 above)






Once all the wires are secured to the LED, its time for a quick test. Add your batteries into the Maglite and power it on for 2-3 secs by pushing on the switch. Once you have light, its time to put the Mag back together.






Before putting the heatsink and light back into the Mag body, make sure you add an even layer of thermal compound around the heatsink, so it transfers the heat evenly back to the Mag body.











Now push the heatsink back into the Mag body, some Mag bodies will be a very tight fit. In this case I use a 1 inch PVC pipe and place it over the LED and tape it lightly with a hammer to get the heatsink flush into the Mag body. Once the heatsink is down you will probably need to cleanup some of the Thermal compound.





Cleaned up from the above picture.






Now put all the Mag parts back together. I took out the stock lens and replaced it with a UCL lens. 











Now put the switch rubber cover back on, add the batteries and tailcap.











Your Done........ Now light up the neighboorhood.











I hope this tutorial helps anyone out there, that is trying to build their first Mag Mod.

Cheers...


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## 1anrm

*Re: How To Mod a Maglite P7*

 thanks for this. Have a good trip!


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## tabetha

*Re: How To Mod a Maglite P7*

Good info there, still not dared do my first one!!
tabetha


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## DM51

*Re: How To Mod a Maglite P7*

This is a very useful thread. I'm moving it to H&M where it belongs.


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## p moore

*Re: How To Mod a Maglite P7*

Well....It's been a week


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## shdwkeeper

Its done, take a look.


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## tabetha

Thanks for the update piccies, very good of you to take the time to load these.
I will most likely do one of these first using your excellent tutorial, so long as I can hide "another bloody torch" from the gf, she's going a bit mental about them all over the place, I said I'm an anorak what do you expect, then we had power cuts 3 days running, she didn't moan then!!
tabetha


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## shdwkeeper

Glad you like it. Its a little picture heavy but pics are nice.


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## Lightcrazycanuck

An awsome job Shdwkeeper.Always wanted to try something like this but I needed a step by step guide to try it.And now you have done that.THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!:twothumbs:twothumbs

I'm going to give this a try.Wish me LUCK.LOL!!!!!!!!!

lovecpflovecpflovecpflovecpflovecpflovecpflovecpf


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## CBR-runner

Man you beat me too it. I was going to make the same post. I have built 3 SSC P7 2D mag's with the buck converter that Dr. Wichtel makes, and the 8x AA to 2D converter form the Sandwich Shoppe. 

The run times are great and man are they bright. :huh:


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## shdwkeeper

Yes they are extremely bright.



CBR-runner said:


> Man you beat me too it. I was going to make the same post. I have built 3 SSC P7 2D mag's with the buck converter that Dr. Wichtel makes, and the 8x AA to 2D converter form the Sandwich Shoppe.
> 
> The run times are great and man are they bright. :huh:


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## dirtech

thank you for this thread. clarified some things for me. I'm going to be using a warm tinted MCE. If I go direct drive, can anyone tell me my battery options with a 2 D mag. I'm really confused about this and I may just get a cheap driver from KD or DX and accept the crap blinky modes. Ideally, I would use that remora board from the sandwich shoppe and get three modes in direct drive, but I've no clue what batteries to use. I understand that the MCE has around 3.3 Vf at 2.8amps? does that mean I'm looking at one lithium ion battery to power it in parallel? I'm hoping to use AA's or 2 18650's for some battery commonality.

Sorry for the incoherent babbling.


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## shdwkeeper

For a 2D direct drive I would go with 3 C 5500 mAh batteries, you need to modify the tailcap and you would also need a battery adapter to hold the C batteries in place inside the D tube.



dirtech said:


> If I go direct drive, can anyone tell me my battery options with a 2 D mag.
> 
> Sorry for the incoherent babbling.


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## sadtimes

Todd,
Awesome post, cleared up a few questions that I had. Just got my heatsinks in today so tomorrow I will be mod'n away...

And to whomever said that it was picture heavy, there is no such thing when it comes to tutorials... Thanks for all the time it took Todd!


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## shdwkeeper

drmalenko:

Good for you, I hope this tutorial helps you when you start your project. Keep us posted.


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## dirtech

shdwkeeper said:


> For a 2D direct drive I would go with 3 C 5500 mAh batteries, you need to modify the tailcap and you would also need a battery adapter to hold the C batteries in place inside the D tube.



Are you talking nimh batteries. If so, is this wired 4p. 

thanks and I may just do this. I like the idea of having a light with common batteries. Do you have any experience or ideas on how this would work with D alkalines in a pinch?


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## shdwkeeper

Yes, NIMH batteries. Alkalines work as well just not as bright, once the alkalines get a load put onto them they drop in voltage. But, when I say not as bright, I mean as the NIMH, the flashlight is still extremely bright.



dirtech said:


> Are you talking nimh batteries. If so, is this wired 4p.
> 
> thanks and I may just do this. I like the idea of having a light with common batteries. Do you have any experience or ideas on how this would work with D alkalines in a pinch?


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## Dark Laser

Well, the possibility of using Alkalines makes the Mag very versatile :twothumbs

But would a MC-E survive the direct-drive? Perhaps by 3 C-size rechargeables, to keep the current down? I'd much more like a warm-white MC-E (since I got my Fenix TK20, I changed my opinion about my favourite color temperature ). Do you think a MC-E-star would work, too (with the reflector being cut down a bit more)?

I haven't bought a new light for a long time...nearly 9 months  - so I thougt about getting a 3C with MC-E...or if not, a 4D (color: copper, cost: only 28 € :naughty:) - or a 2C...or...or


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## Justin Case

In a direct 2D Mag with 2xD NiMH or alkalines, you won't get any appreciable output from either a 4P MC-E or a P7. The nominal 2.4V from your batteries is too low. The datasheet for the P7, for example, shows that forward current goes to zero at a forward voltage of about 2.5V. Now this is no doubt average/typical behavior, so your specific P7 might produce something when driven at 2.4V but it won't be much. You'll find the same result with the MC-E.

If you want to direct drive a P7, you probably should select the J voltage bin emitter to best match the input voltage from your 3xC NiMH. If you direct drive a 4P MC-E, the spec is Vf=3.4V at 2.8A drive current (700mA per core). So you'll face potentially the same issue as for an I voltage bin P7 of briefly overdriving the LED initially when the cells are hot off the charger, and maybe somewhat overdriving the MC-E at steady state. If that concerns you, the inexpensive solution is to build an 8xAMC7135, two-board sandwich driver, as shown by Netkidz, StefanFS, and others on CPF (or buy a ready-made one from sources like Kaidomain). I would de-solder and remove the diodes from the AMC-based boards, and short those connections with a wire or a solder bridge to ensure running in regulation. I also would actually suggest that the optimum configuration is 3xD NiMH if you use this AMC-based sandwich driver. 3xC NiMH IMO is marginal for using an 8xAMC7135 sandwich driver, even for a relatively low Vf quad-die emitter like an I voltage bin P7.

You could also direct drive the low Vf LEDs using 3xalkalines. The voltage sag should be more than enough to avoid any overdriving issues. If anything, you'll underdrive the P7 or 4P MC-E although you'll still get plenty of lumens out.


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## Ny0ng1

thanks for the tutorial! very helpful indeed. 

so this mod will accept all these kind of battery configuration: alkalines, carbon zinc, nimh, nicd right? 
thinking to do the same to my parents Mag 3D 

Eric


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## Justin Case

Ny0ng1 said:


> thanks for the tutorial! very helpful indeed.
> 
> so this mod will accept all these kind of battery configuration: alkalines, carbon zinc, nimh, nicd right?
> thinking to do the same to my parents Mag 3D
> 
> Eric


 
Yes, direct drive will work with all of those chemistries, but not with the same output. Alkaline and carbon-zinc will suffer from serious voltage sag and thus provide lower output than NiMH.what you are doing in direct drive is providing a battery source that matches up with the LED's forward current vs forward voltage curve. If you download the datasheets for a P7 or MC-E, you can find these If vs Vf curves. Some batteries can hold only modest voltage at some given current draw (you can see such performance in Silverfox's various shootouts of alkaline, NiMH, and Li-ion). From these battery performance curves, you can estimate the voltage that the battery can hold under load. From that, you can go to the LED datasheet to estimate corresponding the If-Vf data point. Knowing If (the LED drive current), you can find the relative luminous flux and thus calculate the estimated emitter lumens.


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## dirtech

Justin Case said:


> Yes, direct drive will work with all of those chemistries, but not with the same output. Alkaline and carbon-zinc will suffer from serious voltage sag and thus provide lower output than NiMH.what you are doing in direct drive is providing a battery source that matches up with the LED's forward current vs forward voltage curve. If you download the datasheets for a P7 or MC-E, you can find these If vs Vf curves. Some batteries can hold only modest voltage at some given current draw (you can see such performance in Silverfox's various shootouts of alkaline, NiMH, and Li-ion). From these battery performance curves, you can estimate the voltage that the battery can hold under load. From that, you can go to the LED datasheet to estimate corresponding the If-Vf data point. Knowing If (the LED drive current), you can find the relative luminous flux and thus calculate the estimated emitter lumens.



This is what I was missing about direct driving so thanks. I checked the data sheet and comparing one of Silverfox's charts for C and D batteries I eyeball figure with 3 C's NIMH under load I will get 3.6 volts which corresponds to plenty of current for the MCE or at least one die of the MCE? Chart shows about 3.4Vf for 700mA for one die. What happens with the 4 dies in parallel to the current. :thinking: As you see, I don't know how electricity works that well but its slowly coming together.

ETA- with the 4 dies in parallel the voltage across each will be the same, but the current is split into four. So, that is why 2.8 amps is needed to get 700mA to each die. Right? If I went with a series arrangement, would I be looking to provide 700 mA of current but with 3.4V*4= 13.6V needed to get the light I want.
Reason I'm interested in this is I'm considering going with a AA format. Maybe go 2s2p with the MCE so 3.4V*2=6.8V to run the MCE direct drive with 6 AA NIMH's. Is my brain tracking right?


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## sadtimes

Just Finished my mod and I must say it was only half as hard as I had imagined and took a 1/3 of the time I planned.

It is very bright on alkalines... (yes I know, but its all I had lying round)... and my intentions are to build a couple of these for the family and they will only use alkalines, which is the beauty of this!!!

It seems to be slightly brighter than my magcharger I have for work (on alkalines).. off to batteryjunction now, gotta get some NiMH's!

Todd, Thank You again! Also I will be picking up some more LED's soon!



Whats the runtime on alkalines? anyone?


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## Ny0ng1

Thanks Justin!


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## shdwkeeper

At least a few hours. It will get a lot dimmer but you will still have light.



drmalenko said:


> Whats the runtime on alkalines? anyone?


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## Justin Case

dirtech said:


> ETA- with the 4 dies in parallel the voltage across each will be the same, but the current is split into four. So, that is why 2.8 amps is needed to get 700mA to each die. Right? If I went with a series arrangement, would I be looking to provide 700 mA of current but with 3.4V*4= 13.6V needed to get the light I want.
> Reason I'm interested in this is I'm considering going with a AA format. Maybe go 2s2p with the MCE so 3.4V*2=6.8V to run the MCE direct drive with 6 AA NIMH's. Is my brain tracking right?



Ideally, you do get identical voltage, with drive current per core divided by 4. But that assumes identical electrical behavior of each die, which is not guaranteed. You would think, however, that the dies would be closely matched in these quad-die LEDs.

With 6AA in series, watch out for cell imbalance. Also, make sure your 2S2P (or any MC-E configuration for that matter) soldering is solid. I've seen cases where a single MC-E die was dimmer than the others because the solder joint for one MC-E terminal was poor. That can be bad since the dies aren't well-matched anymore.


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## CBR-runner

I still think you should use a driver of some sort to run the LED right. 

Even i you use the $8 driver method (which ends up being a pretty good driver if you can get a power supply between 3 and 6v) https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/192677


Not to discount this thread at all.


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## Beam Guru

Awesome! I'm guessing this will be my very FIRST mod I attempt!
Thanks!


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## pdice

shdwkeeper said:


> For a 2D direct drive I would go with 3 C 5500 mAh batteries, you need to modify the tailcap and you would also need a battery adapter to hold the C batteries in place inside the D tube.



Could you provide some links on where we could get this setup? I've ordered all the other parts, but I now need some batteries and I'm having some trouble figuring out what to get.


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## Beam Guru

Actually, I thought I had a 3D kicking around but only found my 3C...will it work?
Or is there something what will work better with a 3C?

Thanks.


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## shdwkeeper

Try this site for the C - batteries

Thomas Distributing



pdice said:


> Could you provide some links on where we could get this setup? I've ordered all the other parts, but I now need some batteries and I'm having some trouble figuring out what to get.


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## shdwkeeper

This will get you almost all the way there, except you need a C maglite size heatsink. You can use the link above for the heatsink, just make sure to get the C size.



Beam Guru said:


> Actually, I thought I had a 3D kicking around but only found my 3C...will it work?
> Or is there something what will work better with a 3C?
> 
> Thanks.


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## Sig32

Justin Case said:


> If you want to direct drive a P7, you probably should select the J voltage bin emitter to best match the input voltage from your 3xC NiMH.
> 
> 3xC NiMH IMO is marginal for using an 8xAMC7135 sandwich driver, even for a relatively low Vf quad-die emitter like an I voltage bin P7.


 
JC from what I have read, the 3xC NiMH P7 is not maximizing the output of the P7 (as you mentioned above). In your opinion what would you say is the optimal configuration for a 3xC NiMH P7 setup? What could one do to utilize the P7 to its fullest potential?


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## Justin Case

shdwkeeper said:


> Try this site for the C - batteries
> 
> Thomas Distributing



Battery Specialists has a two-pack of Accupower LSD C NiMH for $13.97, with free shipping.


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## Bodach

Just wanted to say thank you for this how to post. I want to start trying some of the mods I have read about in here and threads like this are helping me get to the point to where I feel like I will be able to do it.:twothumbs


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## pdice

shdwkeeper said:


> Try this site for the C - batteries
> 
> Thomas Distributing



Thanks, what about the sleeve to hold the C batteries inside the D maglite? Does the tailcap need to be modified also?


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## shdwkeeper

Think positive and don't worry about making mistakes, you are going to make mistakes, we all have, that's part of the learning process. Most of all have fun, this is a hobby for a lot of us and would not be a hobby if it wasn't fun. There are tons of folks here that will help guide you on questions you may have, but you also have to take the initiative to read and learn too, just as Justin stated in one thread you posted earlier.

Glad to see you here and welcome to CPF.



Bodach said:


> Just wanted to say thank you for this how to post. I want to start trying some of the mods I have read about in here and threads like this are helping me get to the point to where I feel like I will be able to do it.:twothumbs


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## shdwkeeper

Great Find!! I also just found these 5500 mAh batteries on Overstock for $11.99 plus $2.95 shipping. For a 1000 more mAh for $1 might be worth it.

Overstock



Justin Case said:


> Battery Specialists has a two-pack of Accupower LSD C NiMH for $13.97, with free shipping.


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## shdwkeeper

To hold the C-batteries in place inside a D mag, I use a 1" Sch 40 PVC pipe, I believe its about 4-5 (going off memory here) inches long. You also need to deanodize the inner part of the tailcap and cut the spring (with a dremel) as described here by StefanFS (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/195358) scroll down to the UPDATED 2009-05-07 section. If you don't feel like using water and lye, get a dremel with a grind wheel and grind off all the paint inside the tailcap and test it for connectivity.



pdice said:


> Thanks, what about the sleeve to hold the C batteries inside the D maglite? Does the tailcap need to be modified also?


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## Justin Case

shdwkeeper said:


> Great Find!! I also just found these 5500 mAh batteries on Overstock for $11.99 plus $2.95 shipping. For a 1000 more mAh for $1 might be worth it.
> 
> Overstock



Depends if you want low self-discharge or not, if those CTA cells can really deliver 5500mAh at 3A discharge, and what voltage the CTAs can hold at 3A.


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## shdwkeeper

All good points.



Justin Case said:


> Depends if you want low self-discharge or not, if those CTA cells can really deliver 5500mAh at 3A discharge, and what voltage the CTAs can hold at 3A.


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## Dioni

Shdwkeeper, thanks for sharing this "tutorial" :twothumbs


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## raz

A great tutorial - thanx for your efforts!

I’m a little confused by some of the comments here and request clarification.
I have a 3C mag I want to mod and I prefer to use a P7 and direct drive (good success there in previous mods (P7 and 3 X 4/5C in 2C mag; P7 and 3XD mag)).

Do I understand from the comments that a P7 3C direct drive mod is not worth doing (not maximizing the output of the P7)? Seems to this newbie that it would not be much different than the P7 3X4/5C mod I did which is a fantastic light. If a 3C mod is worth doing, then request advice on which P7 emitter to use – “I” or “J” voltage? Thanx to all for your assist.[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


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## Justin Case

The hard anodizing is an insulator and thus protects the Seoul P7's slug from shorting out to the heat sink. The slug is connected to the anode and normally modders have to use something like Arctic Alumina thermal adhesive when attaching the P7 to bare aluminum.


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## dirtech

Alright! I just finished my 3C nimh mod with a warm MCE I purchased from nailbender. It's pulling around 2.3 to 2.4 amps on fresh Tenergy 5000Mah C's. I tested it with 2 Duracell D bats just to see and it lit up at around 400ma. With 3 D's alkaline I was getting around 2.5amps which surprised me. I thought the nimh would give more, and maybe they will at longer run times. The tint of this MCE is superb! Thanks for the thread and those who answered some of my questions.


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## shdwkeeper

Raz:

My opinion, sure its worth doing. Your going to get very good output with a 3C direct drive. Both the I and J emitters will work for you. The voltage on the I is slightly lower 3.25-3.5 compared to the J which is 3.5-3.75. Some people have said they like the I better becasue it will hold its brightness longer because its lower voltage, so as the batteries lose their juice its still able to power the I bin brighter. I have not tested this theory but it sounds reasonable.



raz said:


> A great tutorial - thanx for your efforts!
> 
> I’m a little confused by some of the comments here and request clarification.
> I have a 3C mag I want to mod and I prefer to use a P7 and direct drive (good success there in previous mods (P7 and 3 X 4/5C in 2C mag; P7 and 3XD mag)).
> 
> Do I understand from the comments that a P7 3C direct drive mod is not worth doing (not maximizing the output of the P7)? Seems to this newbie that it would not be much different than the P7 3X4/5C mod I did which is a fantastic light. If a 3C mod is worth doing, then request advice on which P7 emitter to use – “I” or “J” voltage? Thanx to all for your assist.


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## raz

Many thanx for your reply - mod is in work at this time.


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## shdwkeeper

Great, post some pics while you are at it.



raz said:


> Many thanx for your reply - mod is in work at this time.


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## DMC

Beam Guru,

I modded a 3C Mag with a P7 DSVNI emitter and H22A's C heatsink. It runs at 2.6 amps (direct drive) with 3 C NIMH either Titanium or AccuPower rechargeable batteries. And 1.25 amps with three alkaline batteries.

It is my favorite and brightest LED light.
*
*Also, buy or make a MOP 15mm reflector to smooth out the P7 emitter artifacts.


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## shdwkeeper

Not a bad idea, you might lose some throw once the reflector is smoothed out, but probably not a lot to tell a difference.



DMC said:


> Also, buy or make a MOP 15mm reflector to smooth out the P7 emitter artifacts.


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## shdwkeeper

Raz,

Did you get this finished yet?



raz said:


> Many thanx for your reply - mod is in work at this time.


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## SneakyCyber

Mine is all done got all the parts today 
Mag 3 D Before








And After






Sorry for the blurry pics my camera isn't the greatest. Alas you get the idea MUCH brighter and more flood. Can't wait to test this at work tomorrow delivering Pizza's


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## create

Hi all, newbie here....

Have any of you used low self-discharge NiMH batteries for this. They have a much lower internal resistance and I am wondering it there is a possibility of them delivering too many amps to the P7 (J Vf bin) if it is hooked up directly to them. Am I being foolish or is this a legitimate concern?

I am ordering all my parts today! This will be my 1st mod and I would like to get it mostly right.

These are the Ds I am getting: http://www.thomasdistributing.com/s...batteriesbrprecharged-2-battery-pk-p-997.html


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## DM51

Welcome to CPF, SneakyCyber.

Your pics are too large - please resize them to 800 x 800 pixels maximum (see Rule 3).


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## create

create said:


> Have any of you used low self-discharge NiMH batteries for this. They have a much lower internal resistance and I am wondering it there is a possibility of them delivering too many amps to the P7 (J Vf bin) if it is hooked up directly to them. Am I being foolish or is this a legitimate concern?
> ....


Did some digging around and I think I figured out my answer. Since I am using the J Vf bin, the voltage drop when using 3 x D NiMH will be almost insignificant that I'll be lucky for my setup to pull 2.8A :thinking:. I think the internal resistance of the Mag (switch + body + spring) will be more than the 0.1 Ohm I need. I'll do some measurements at the tail cap once I get a chance to put it al together just to be sure.

This post was most helpful when figuring this all out: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3116645&postcount=5

:twothumbs


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## spankone

I'm finding it hard to make sense of all this battery stuff, I've got a mag 2d that I would like to DD as a first mod. but I would like to run it on AA batterys because I've got loads of AA ni-mh's. is it ok to DD a p7 from 6xAA.


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## create

spankone said:


> I'm finding it hard to make sense of all this battery stuff, I've got a mag 2d that I would like to DD as a first mod. but I would like to run it on AA batterys because I've got loads of AA ni-mh's. is it ok to DD a p7 from 6xAA.



I'm still learning all this but hopefully I can help. It is possible to do what you want but you may have to compromise on brightness or runtime. The main thing is that you need to have enough voltage for the led to turn on. This will depend on the forward voltage bin code. 

Most of the threads here have been referring to the I (3.25~3.5) and the J (3.5~3.75) bins. If using one of those you will need to use at least 3 batteries in series (3x1.2=3.6) so you could setup your 6AA in 3 x parallel pairs. That may or may not fit in a 2D Mag if you cut the tail cap spring down (D is 61.5mm long and AA is 50.5mm long). You could also bore out your mag body to be able to fit 2 series of 3 parallel AA for 2.4 volts but you will need to find a lower voltage bin P7 -- like a D (2~2.25) or E (2.25~2.5) -- or use a driver which sounds like you are trying to avoid.

If you are using a power source with extra volts, e.g. you wire up your 6 AA in series for a total of 7.2V, you may  your P7 unless you put a resistor in there. This would allow you to possibly get the brightest output but not the best runtime. So let say you want to target 2.8Amps and assuming a P7 with a Vf of 3.3 you would need about a 1.5 Ohm resistor that is rated for about 11Watts to control the current. The details of this are in the link from my previous post. Not sure how the efficiency of this would compare to a driver.

Also you may want to look at page 3 of the "Electrical Drive Management" doc from the P7 page http://www.seoulsemicon.com/en/product/prd/zpowerLEDp7.asp. The resistor values there assume 350mA.

Hopefully I am not too far off and if I am I know someone will jump in to correct me.


----------



## spankone

cheers for that.


----------



## shdwkeeper

Folks, if you are looking for emitters I have a post in the Marketplace forums for them. Since so many people are asking me where is the link, Here is the link: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=197782

Thank you.


----------



## Bonner03

I think I am going to make this my first mod. What do you think? Should I do something else first?


----------



## shdwkeeper

Go for it, the results are amazing.



Bonner03 said:


> I think I am going to make this my first mod. What do you think? Should I do something else first?


----------



## SneakyCyber

It was my first mod and everything went perfectly. Follow the instructions and take your time. I am working on a few more mods now. A Mag85 and a 4x SSC p7. So many flashlights so little money.


----------



## create

Just wanted to followup on my mod. Unfortunately due to my choice of voltage bin (J), I did not have enough of a voltage drop and my first mod was only pulling about 1.6A. The P7 was pretty bright but not as much as I had hoped for. :sigh:

But then... Fivemega came to the rescue. I got an extension tube from him (https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/206419) to turn my 3D into a 4D and now I am right at 2.8A. WOOHOO :thumbsup: This thing rocks! It is a bit on the large and heavy side but hey it was a fun project for my first build.


----------



## Justin Case

What batteries are you using? Have you checked your build for sources of high contact resistance? If you need 4xD to get 2.8A at the tail, either your batteries are suffering from excessive voltage sag or you effectively have a fair amount of parasitic resistance somewhere in your circuit. You shouldn't need 4.8V nominal to drive a J Vf bin P7 at 2.8A.


----------



## create

Justin Case said:


> What batteries are you using?


I am using the AccuEvolution NiMH D cells 10000mAh. They are LSD.



> Have you checked your build for sources of high contact resistance? If you need 4xD to get 2.8A at the tail, either your batteries are suffering from excessive voltage sag or you effectively have a fair amount of parasitic resistance somewhere in your circuit. You shouldn't need 4.8V nominal to drive a J Vf bin P7 at 2.8A.



Maybe I am not understanding this whole LED thing but I though that one needed to apply enough voltage to go past the Vf for the electrons to flow through and light the thing up. 

The J Vf bin is between 3.5V and 3.75V. With 3 X 1.2V NiMH I am at 3.6V. Just barely enough to cross that Vf threshold. Assuming this LED is on the low end (I don't have a means of testing it) then my drop is only 0.1V and if I divide that by 2.8A I get 0.036 ohms. I figure between the ~10inches of 22 wire, body of the mag, spring, switch and batteries I am well over that. 

I tried to measure the resistance (without the batteries) and it was somewhere around 0.1 but not sure how accurate that was. Does that make sense? Would you consider that too much? Would seem to make sense since I was only getting about 1.5A at the tail with fresh batteries.

Please enlighten me.


----------



## Justin Case

But if you are running 4xNiMH at a nominal 4.8V, then you are sagging by probably at least a volt due to parasitic resistance somewhere. If you measured 2.8A tail current draw when you ran 4xNiMH, then that means you have a parasitic resistance of at least 0.36 ohms somewhere in your circuit. That seems like a lot, since presumably you've hard wired the switch, and that removes a lot of parasitic resistance right there. The other remaining sources include the tail spring (contact resistances between the spring and tailcap, and spring and bottom terminal of the bottom battery), contact resistances between the cells, contact resistance between the top button of the top cell and the switch contact, two internal switch contacts, the hookup wires, the solder joints, the grub screw ground contact, tailcap thread contact with the flashlight body tube, and the resistance of the metal flashlight body.

Why do you have 10 inches of hookup wire in your DD Mag mod? You need to just go from the switch to the LED, which couldn't be more than about 3" separation.

I would check the grub screw to make sure that you centered it in the bare metal dimple in the flashlight body for a good ground contact. I'd make sure that the tailcap thread contacts are clean. I'd check the contact between the switch and the top battery (the switch contact is often dirty). I'd also reduce the hookup wire length and check all solder joints.

If you can measure tail current draw (you claim that you are getting exactly 2.8A when using 4xNiMH), then I assume you have a DMM. You can use your DMM to measure Vf. Put the probes on the LED terminals while running the light and read off the voltage value from the meter.

Vf is not a single value. Forward voltage is paired with forward current and you have an If-Vf curve. The Vf spec for the P7 is for a forward current of 2.8A. That's a specific point on the Vf-If curve. But there are an infinite number of Vf-If data points on the curve.

If you have a P7 that has a Vf of 3.7V at 2.8A and you feed the P7 3.6V, then the result of that is you will have a lower forward current than 2.8A (let's say 2.4A as a guess). It doesn't mean that the P7 won't light up at all.

Your calculation of 0.036 ohms parasitic resistance highlights the fact that it can be difficult to hit exactly 2.8A drive current when using 3xNiMH. It takes only a little bit of parasitic resistance to drop the voltage so that you aren't quite running at full power. And Mags have many sources for parasitic resistance. But if you are getting 1.5A when running 3xNiMH, something is wrong. That is just way low, especially for quality cells like your Accupower LSDs.


----------



## old4570

Yep , thats the way you do it 

Only thing I did different was to spring load the reflector so I could focus it .


----------



## create

Justin Case said:


> But if you are running 4xNiMH at a nominal 4.8V, then you are sagging by probably at least a volt due to parasitic resistance somewhere. If you measured 2.8A tail current draw when you ran 4xNiMH, then that means you have a parasitic resistance of at least 0.36 ohms somewhere in your circuit. That seems like a lot, since presumably you've hard wired the switch, and that removes a lot of parasitic resistance right there.... <snip>


Hmm... I am embarrassed to say that my batteries were not as fresh as I thought they were  :sigh:
I just took them off the charger and I am getting 3.16A at the tail cap!!! Is this going to be a problem? 



> Why do you have 10 inches of hookup wire in your DD Mag mod? You need to just go from the switch to the LED, which couldn't be more than about 3" separation.


It is actually more like 8" (4 each). This is my first mod and I was making sure I had enough room to maneuver.



> If you can measure tail current draw (you claim that you are getting exactly 2.8A when using 4xNiMH), then I assume you have a DMM. You can use your DMM to measure Vf. Put the probes on the LED terminals while running the light and read off the voltage value from the meter.


I measured the Vf as you suggested (thanks) and I get 3.66V. 



> Vf is not a single value. Forward voltage is paired with forward current and you have an If-Vf curve. The Vf spec for the P7 is for a forward current of 2.8A. That's a specific point on the Vf-If curve. But there are an infinite number of Vf-If data points on the curve.
> 
> If you have a P7 that has a Vf of 3.7V at 2.8A and you feed the P7 3.6V, then the result of that is you will have a lower forward current than 2.8A (let's say 2.4A as a guess). It doesn't mean that the P7 won't light up at all.


You lost me in here somewhere. Right now I am at 3.16A and 3.66V with fresh off the charger batteries. I would like to run it for a little while to see were it settles but not sure if that many amps will be a problem. I have the P7 on a copper heatsink so I think I am ok for heat dissipation, but don't want to fry my P7.



> Your calculation of 0.036 ohms parasitic resistance highlights the fact that it can be difficult to hit exactly 2.8A drive current when using 3xNiMH. It takes only a little bit of parasitic resistance to drop the voltage so that you aren't quite running at full power. And Mags have many sources for parasitic resistance. But if you are getting 1.5A when running 3xNiMH, something is wrong. That is just way low, especially for quality cells like your Accupower LSDs.


Looks like my I am ok for resistance :naughty: 
I did a quick check outside and I am able to light up a tree 75 yards away :twothumbs which is cool but hopefully the led will be ok.

thank you for exaplaining stuff!


----------



## Justin Case

Looks like you are all set.

All I was saying on the forward current/forward voltage data pairs thing is this: If/Vf form a characteristic curve. Here is a notional curve for a Seoul P4 (didn't have a P7 curve handy, but it will look similar).







For the given input voltage, what gets delivered to the LED is dictated by the If/Vf characteristic curve. Do a web search for the P7 datasheet. Seoul has it on their web site. You will notice that the curve is very steep at the high end. So small changes in Vf result in relatively large changes in If. Battery voltage drop of only a tenth or two of a volt of so will probably bring your tail current down to 2.8A or so. If the LED is well heat sinked, I doubt that a mild overdriving of 3.16A will matter. Run the light for some extended period (length of time perhaps dictated by how long you might envision your max continuous usage to be -- 10 min, 30 min?). If the LED doesn't tint shift to the blue end, you are probably ok. Feel the outside of the Mag head. Is it noticeably warm? If so, that's good. The heat sink is transferring heat to the rest of the light. Open the head and touch the heat sink. Is it less than burning hot to the touch? If so, that's also good. The heat sink isn't getting overwhelmed.


----------



## create

Justin Case said:


> Looks like you are all set.



Thank you! People like you make this site/forum awesome!

lovecpf


----------



## Pummy

Thanks for the guide. Used it tonight to make my own 3D DD MC-E light. Old Alkalines were pulling 800mAh, semi old ones 1000mAh, but fresh ones pulled 2.85A which was astonishing.

Now that I have done this one, it has really plugged me into making some more for my other light and try to entice my friends to let me mod theirs :twothumbs

It is now 02:30in the morning here in London, perfect time to go out and play light saber outside after I fit the aspheric lens I have sitting around :thumbsup:


----------



## Bonner03

Well, I completed my first flashlight mod using this step by step guide. It was easy once I got the new solder gun and flux. I also burnt my knuckle while trying to solder. I guess it was a pretty good trade off. I don't have any lithium batteries, just regular old Energizers but wow what a difference. Is it just me or is the ceramique hard to use, very sticky and hard to clean up? I can't wait to do my next one.


----------



## jamesmtl514

I was holding on to a beat up (non fuctional ) 3D mag for the last 3-4 years, just before discovering this site i dicided to pitch it. I kinda regret it now. 
I do still have the non-functioning 2AA though. maybe i can do something with that?


----------



## orangeturtle

I wanted to thank ShadowKeeper for his excellent write up and share my experience making 2 P7 maglites. 

I bought my P7's from ecrater.com from a seller Roltaonline. I would suggest not buying from them. I bought a C and D bin, although cheap $13 for the C and $17 for the D bin, they are exactly the same. They are also cloudy and took almost 3 weeks to get. The heatsinks from H22A are excellent as most of you know. I used JB weld kwik as I couldn't find the aluma epoxy locally and read that some people were using it with good results. I have a lathe and spun off the switch housings, tried to do that with the first reflector and broke it. I had a very old reflector which is in the black one that is lacking in quality and clarity. I did buy the lenses that ShadowKeeper suggested and they are beautiful. Anyways, here are some pics- thank you so much!
















Nova tac 120P full bright on left, P7 mag on right (running on alkalines)






All my decent lights, 2 P7's, beta test NovaTac 120P which I got from the supplier before they were on the market years ago and a Olight AAA titanium...






Been carrying this novatac daily for about 4 years, still works great. The lens is pretty scratched and has burns from welding but I rely on this old tank...











Thanks for sharing how to do this ShadowKeeper, I recommend this to all, not a difficult thing to do. I think the hardest thing is cutting the reflector but if you do it the way ShadowKeeper has shown it's not too bad...


----------



## orangeturtle

Oh I searched for a while and couldn't find what the runtime for a P7 3D alkaline is roughly, anyone know?


----------



## shdwkeeper

orangeturtle said:


> I wanted to thank ShadowKeeper for his excellent write up and share my experience making 2 P7 maglites.
> 
> Thanks for sharing how to do this ShadowKeeper, I recommend this to all, not a difficult thing to do. I think the hardest thing is cutting the reflector but if you do it the way ShadowKeeper has shown it's not too bad...



Thanks for the kind remarks lovecpf


----------



## shdwkeeper

orangeturtle said:


> Oh I searched for a while and couldn't find what the runtime for a P7 3D alkaline is roughly, anyone know?



For 3 Alkalines, you will probably get 2+ hours, remember not as bright as NIMH though. But who is going to leave there light on that long continuous unless you are testing, but I could be wrong.

Cheers.


----------



## shdwkeeper

Bonner03 said:


> Is it just me or is the ceramique hard to use, very sticky and hard to clean up? I can't wait to do my next one.



Yes, messy but worth it.


----------



## BT132435

What does the discharge curve look like for 3D? Since its direct drive i'm assuming there's a huge drop in output within minutes? Oh yea also... could i possibly use the AA --> D adapters with the AA eneloops for the 3D? Or would it be too much current for the AA's to handle?


----------



## Hack On Wheels

Question regarding the reflector for anyone who has cut down and use the stock reflector. How much did you trim off the end? Or, how close down to the reflecting surface did you shave it? I'd like to at least be able to eliminate/minimize the donut when the beam is used at a distance. Mine currently has a very pronounced donut.


----------



## boostax

hi,shdwkeeper 

is it enough to wire only 1 pin on each side for power the led? 
thanks


----------



## Hack On Wheels

boostax said:


> hi,shdwkeeper
> 
> is it enough to wire only 1 pin on each side for power the led?
> thanks



Yes it is! Both pins on each side do fine. As long as you have the polarity right then you can solder to just one, or both, and either will be fine.


----------



## boostax

@ Hack On Wheels

thank you because last time I had some problems with the space because I soldered the wires to both pins.

thanks
again


----------



## Hack On Wheels

boostax said:


> @ Hack On Wheels
> 
> thank you because last time I had some problems with the space because I soldered the wires to both pins.
> 
> thanks
> again



You're welcome. I found the trick to the space issue was to clip the leads nice and short, and then I made sure to solder the wires so that they stayed more or less flush against the side of the emitter (under the leads). This gives plenty of clearance for a cut-down stock reflector.

On a kind of related note, it appears that for a SSC P4 only the one long lead on each side works, the two stubs leads should not be used.


----------



## Dark Laser

Yes, I already was forced to find out that the P4 only wants one lead on each side soldered 
I did it because I replaced an old Luxeon III with it - the Luxeon was mounted exactly the same way (2 leads on one side, 1 on the other).


----------



## Doglyte

before i try this mod, can i ask a few questions about batteries? 

im a coon hunter, and i want to pack as much as i can into these flash lights. i would be using it for long periods of time each week, multiple days. maybe not a full 2hrs run time, but i'd like to be able to make a few hunts without charging it before each trip.
i have a 3D model, but would consider doing this mod to a 6D if it meant longer run time as a result. unless of course the extra voltage meant i had to modify the instructions.... i want to keep it simple for my first mod, but you get my drift? if a 6D model meant longer runtime, then i'd want that. 

i see that you using regular D batteries, but if you wanted to use rechargeable ones, like 18650's for example, what combination would you recommend? im sure the brightness will be more than enough for my use, cause i wont need it to shine further than a 120ft in most applications, but i like the tight beam. i just need as much run time as possible.... this looks like a great mod that i would love to try..... thanks in advance.


----------



## Dark Laser

How about the 6D, 6D NiMHs and a Der Wichtel driver?

Assuming you use 10Ah-cells, you'd get a runtime of at least 6 hours (I think) :naughty:

The 6D definitely means much more runtime than you could achieve with the 3D. On the other side, you need twice the amount of rechargeables.


----------



## Doglyte

Dark Laser said:


> How about the 6D, 6D NiMHs and a Der Wichtel driver?
> 
> Assuming you use 10Ah-cells, you'd get a runtime of at least 6 hours (I think) :naughty:
> 
> The 6D definitely means much more runtime than you could achieve with the 3D. On the other side, you need twice the amount of rechargeables.



yes thanks for the reply

few more questions... is the driver needed because of the added voltage? 

and im sorry, im still learning on the batteries, what model D type rechargables are the best to get? is there a common "best bang for the buck" type of battery that could be made to fit inside a 6D light? i wish i could rig something up to charge the batteries like i do my Stinger HP, ive seen the end cap mods that have the dongle that plugs into the charger...i kinda like that...


----------



## Dark Laser

Doglyte said:


> is the driver needed because of the added voltage



Yes. Otherwise you'd kill the the LED by too much voltage (as the current goes up extremely with just a little more voltage - but this was explained here in this thread). In theory, you could use a simple resistor. But the resistor will get very, very hot and will waste the added energy. A driver is the only real solution.

If you want to have NiMHs, you have to decide whether you use the light very often or not. If the latter is the case, Low Self Discharge cells would be best. If you use the light often (say you charge the batteries once a month), normal rechargeables will be better, for they have more capacity in them. After a certain time, the LSD cells have more capacity remaining in them.
Another option would be Lithium cells...but I think e.g. 6x 18650s will have too much voltage for the driver I suggested.

Best bang for buck...no idea :shrug:
I don't know where you live - you might have more possibilites than I. And I am no expert for charging battery packs either...but this forum is great and will certainly help you lovecpf

Hope you understood everything...:thumbsup:


----------



## Fusion_m8

FANTASTIC!!! Got itchy fingers now...makes me wanna mod my 3D LED Maglite.:naughty:


----------



## Doglyte

Dark Laser said:


> Yes. Otherwise you'd kill the the LED by too much voltage (as the current goes up extremely with just a little more voltage - but this was explained here in this thread). In theory, you could use a simple resistor. But the resistor will get very, very hot and will waste the added energy. A driver is the only real solution.
> 
> If you want to have NiMHs, you have to decide whether you use the light very often or not. If the latter is the case, Low Self Discharge cells would be best. If you use the light often (say you charge the batteries once a month), normal rechargeables will be better, for they have more capacity in them. After a certain time, the LSD cells have more capacity remaining in them.
> Another option would be Lithium cells...but I think e.g. 6x 18650s will have too much voltage for the driver I suggested.
> 
> Best bang for buck...no idea :shrug:
> I don't know where you live - you might have more possibilites than I. And I am no expert for charging battery packs either...but this forum is great and will certainly help you lovecpf
> 
> Hope you understood everything...:thumbsup:




yes thank you, i think i understand. i guess im gonna have to find me a driver that can handle higher voltage if i want to use a 6D body. and yes i will be recharging this light very often. sometimes every 5-6 days. 

i guess i have some more reading to do over in the "driver" section.... if i cant figure it out, i guess ill just stick with this direct drive build, and learn from there.... 

thanks again..


----------



## 420light

*4 D MAG to P7 Please Help.*

Hello Everyone.

I have been lurking around here for a while and finally joined. 

So I want to do the P7 Upgrade to 2 of my old 4 D Maglites I bought years ago at Christmas time for $9.95 a piece. 

So far I have gathered that I need a C BIN P7 Bare emitter with a P7 Heat Sink. (I know about the teflon wires, therma paste, etc. by reading previous threads).

My questions are:

1. Am I supposed to use TWO 1400 mA AMC 7135 drivers for this setup?

2. I know C BIN is preferred. Is Lite Mania and Deal Extreme the preferred places to get this stuff ?

3. I plan on using 4 D LITHIUM or NiMH for this. Is this okay? What run times can be expected?

4. What reflector for a good throw is recommended? 

5. If one wanted settings like low/med/high what driver is needed, and will that take the place of the other two?

Thanks for your Help.


----------



## DM51

*Re: 4 D MAG to P7 Please Help.*

Welcome to CPF, 420light.

We have a number of threads on this topic, so I'll merge your post with one of them.


----------



## 420light

*Re: 4 D MAG to P7 Please Help.*



420light said:


> Hello Everyone.
> 
> I have been lurking around here for a while and finally joined.
> 
> So I want to do the P7 Upgrade to 2 of my old 4 D Maglites I bought years ago at Christmas time for $9.95 a piece.
> 
> So far I have gathered that I need a C BIN P7 Bare emitter with a P7 Heat Sink. (I know about the teflon wires, therma paste, etc. by reading previous threads).
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1. Am I supposed to use TWO 1400 mA AMC 7135 drivers for this setup?
> 
> 2. I know C BIN is preferred. Is Lite Mania and Deal Extreme the preferred places to get this stuff ?
> 
> 3. I plan on using 4 D LITHIUM or NiMH for this. Is this okay? What run times can be expected?
> 
> 4. What reflector for a good throw is recommended?
> 
> 5. If one wanted settings like low/med/high what driver is needed, and will that take the place of the other two?
> 
> Thanks for your Help.




Anyone? Please provide input. All of the P7 Mods that I have read are on a 2/3 D. Since I have a 4 D I want to know what to do differently. Thanks.


----------



## Dark Laser

I have a 4D, too, but I will use a warm MC-E and a Der Wichtel buck driver. I'll try 4D NiMHs first; however, if it doesn't use at least 80% of the capacity (cut-off at 4.2V), I think 6 Sub-Cs or 5Cs will be better. I hope to see some 3.5 hours of runtime with the Ds. 4 Lithiums would work great, but I want to use NiMHs only.

For maximum throw, a stock Mag reflector would be best (though having a donut hole which can be removed by sputtering). I wonder if anyone tried a Rebel Mag reflector yet - might throw quite well, too.

I have no experience with DX and Litemania, sorry :shrug:


----------



## Justin Case

*Re: 4 D MAG to P7 Please Help.*



420light said:


> Hello Everyone.
> 
> I have been lurking around here for a while and finally joined.
> 
> So I want to do the P7 Upgrade to 2 of my old 4 D Maglites I bought years ago at Christmas time for $9.95 a piece.
> 
> So far I have gathered that I need a C BIN P7 Bare emitter with a P7 Heat Sink. (I know about the teflon wires, therma paste, etc. by reading previous threads).
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1. Am I supposed to use TWO 1400 mA AMC 7135 drivers for this setup?
> 
> 2. I know C BIN is preferred. Is Lite Mania and Deal Extreme the preferred places to get this stuff ?
> 
> 3. I plan on using 4 D LITHIUM or NiMH for this. Is this okay? What run times can be expected?
> 
> 4. What reflector for a good throw is recommended?
> 
> 5. If one wanted settings like low/med/high what driver is needed, and will that take the place of the other two?
> 
> Thanks for your Help.


 
First, make sure that your D Mags have the letter "D" as the first character in the serial number. The various Mag mod heat sinks are designed for that generation of D Mags.

#1
You can use any driver you prefer, subject to constraints such as desired drive current, input voltage range, physical size, and single vs multimode. 

#2
I don't know that C-bin is "preferred". C-bin refers to the luminous flux bin for the P7 -- 700-800 lumens when driven at full power (2.8A). D-bin is 800-900 lumens. What also may matter are the tint and the forward voltage bin.

If you want to use an 8xAMC7135 based driver (from your #1 above), then you probably want to get an I forward voltage bin P7, if you were to use 3xD NiMH. However, with 4xD NiMH, I or J voltage bin will work fine.

#3
4xD Li (whether primaries or secondaries) is far too high in total input voltage for the AMC7135 chip. The absolute max input voltage rating is 7V, with 6V recommended. 4xAA Energizer Li primaries in D shell adapters meet the above voltage limits, but I doubt they will work well at 2.8A current draw. 4xD NiMH will also work, although with an efficiency penalty vs 3xD NiMH (but you don't have a 3D Mag, so this is moot). I don't think it is a super big deal, but you will probably want to attach your AMC7135 driver to a heat sink using thermal epoxy so that the driver doesn't get overly hot.

AMC7135 efficiency is basically Vf/Vin. If you use a J voltage bin P7 with Vf~3.5V and you power the light with 4xD NIMH with Vin~4.8V, then your efficiency is about 73%. The LED is burning about 3.5V*2.8A = 9.8W. Thus, the driver must pull 9.8W/73% = 13.4W to deliver 9.8W to the LED. That means about 3.6W of waste heat. That's a lot, and thus my recommendation to heat sink the driver.

A possible alternative driver for your 4D mod is the Shark Buck 3A from The Sandwich Shoppe. Combine it with a SharkSink-D. Price is a lot more than the AMC7135 approach, though.

If instead, you were doing a 3D Mag mod and used an I-bin P7 with Vf~3.3V, then the LED might use about 3.3V*2.8A = 9.2W of power. 3xD NIMH might have Vin~3.6V, giving an AMC7135 driver efficiency of about 92%. At that efficiency, the driver has to generate about 9.2W/92% = 10W, or about 0.8W of waste heat. You probably can get away with no heat sinking of the driver.

#4
Smooth reflectors tend to throw better than orange peel reflectors. Try the stock smooth Mag reflector. If you like it, then you are all set. If not, then you can order something like this KD 15mm opening OP reflector. I don't have any experience with this KD 15mm opening smooth reflector, but perhaps it could be another choice.

#5
See StefanFS's P7 Mag mod thread.


----------



## 420light

Thanks for all the advice.lovecpf


----------



## SmurfTacular

What a great thread!

I'm ready to buy all the parts and start building, but the link to the LED emitter is broken 

Also, I have a 4C Maglite. The build is almost identical from what I see (compared to your 3D). The voltage in mine would be about 6.5, so I assume I would need an emitter that's capable of taking more voltage, right?


----------



## shdwkeeper

SmurfTacular said:


> What a great thread!
> 
> I'm ready to buy all the parts and start building, but the link to the LED emitter is broken



Link should be fixed, sorry about that. Here it is just incase: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=197782


----------



## SmurfTacular

shdwkeeper said:


> Link should be fixed, sorry about that. Here it is just incase: http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=197782



Before I commit to start building, my Maglite is actually a 5C. That would make the voltage 6~8.5v. Can that bulb handle that much current? Or do I need a circuit board?


----------



## 420light

You mean the LED right? Yes you need a driver.


----------



## shdwkeeper

SmurfTacular said:


> Before I commit to start building, my Maglite is actually a 5C. That would make the voltage 6~8.5v. Can that bulb handle that much current? Or do I need a circuit board?



You need a driver board - www.taskled.com, a lot of folks are using the d2flex board. You can search the forums for this driver board as well.


----------



## Justin Case

d2Flex is a direct drive PWM controller, not a driver. Smurf needs a buck driver to drive a P7 with 5xNiMH. A d2Flex combined with a hipCC would give you a multimode buck driver setup. Just a hipCC would give you single mode.


----------



## SmurfTacular

Justin Case said:


> d2Flex is a direct drive PWM controller, not a driver. Smurf needs a buck driver to drive a P7 with 5xNiMH. A d2Flex combined with a hipCC would give you a multimode buck driver setup. Just a hipCC would give you single mode.


 
You guys seem to know what your talking about. where in the flashlight would I put the driver? How easy is it to install? Also, is this the best solution? shouldnt I take advantage of my high voltage and get a high voltage LED? I was looking at this:


----------



## Justin Case

For simplicity, I'd probably use a Shark Buck from The Sandwich Shoppe and attach the driver to a Shark Sink D, similar to the fourth photo in this post. A hipCC from TaskLED is 1.1" diam, vs 0.75" diam for the Shark Buck. So it could be a tight fit. I don't have direct experience with the hipCC with a Shark Sink D in a D Mag, so I can't help you with specific fit details. I'm sure others can, though.


----------



## SmurfTacular

Justin Case said:


> For simplicity, I'd probably use a Shark Buck from The Sandwich Shoppe and attach the driver to a Shark Sink D, similar to the fourth photo in this post. A hipCC from TaskLED is 1.1" diam, vs 0.75" diam for the Shark Buck. So it could be a tight fit. I don't have direct experience with the hipCC with a Shark Sink D in a D Mag, so I can't help you with specific fit details. I'm sure others can, though.




those buck drivers are expensive. What about this:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20330


and cant I just use this p7 bulb?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12721

and this heatsink:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16545

wouldn't all this work?


Can somebody give me actual schematics and a list of things to buy? I really want this mag ready by mid March...


----------



## Justin Case

SmurfTacular said:


> those buck drivers are expensive. What about this:
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20330
> 
> 
> and cant I just use this p7 bulb?
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12721
> 
> and this heatsink:
> 
> http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.16545
> 
> wouldn't all this work?
> 
> 
> Can somebody give me actual schematics and a list of things to buy? I really want this mag ready by mid March...



Did you read Post #1 of this thread? It lists all of the parts you need for a direct drive build. With your desired build, you just need to add a buck driver and wire it into the circuit. The driver typically needs Batt+ and Batt- inputs and has LED+ and LED- output connections to the P7.

DX20330 appears to work ok so far based on various CPF reports. However, the DX web link shows an SS24 diode on the board, which is rated only at 2A. Thus, the diode is being run out of spec. There is a reason why the US-designed and US-made boards from The Shoppe and TaskLED cost more. They are rugged, well-made, and well-supported. You don't get a board composed of underspec'ed components.

DX12721 is a P7 on a star. You need just a bare P7. DX16545 is a bare star. If you got DX12721, then DX16545 is superfluous. Either way, a star is a poor heat sink. If you want to run the P7 at full power (2.8A), it won't last very long sitting on a little piece of metal like a star as the only heat sink.

Get the heat sink listed in Post #1.


----------



## SmurfTacular

Justin Case said:


> Did you read Post #1 of this thread? It lists all of the parts you need for a direct drive build. With your desired build, you just need to add a buck driver and wire it into the circuit. The driver typically needs Batt+ and Batt- inputs and has LED+ and LED- output connections to the P7.
> 
> DX20330 appears to work ok so far based on various CPF reports. However, the DX web link shows an SS24 diode on the board, which is rated only at 2A. Thus, the diode is being run out of spec. There is a reason why the US-designed and US-made boards from The Shoppe and TaskLED cost more. They are rugged, well-made, and well-supported. You don't get a board composed of underspec'ed components.
> 
> DX12721 is a P7 on a star. You need just a bare P7. DX16545 is a bare star. If you got DX12721, then DX16545 is superfluous. Either way, a star is a poor heat sink. If you want to run the P7 at full power (2.8A), it won't last very long sitting on a little piece of metal like a star as the only heat sink.
> 
> Get the heat sink listed in Post #1.



hmm... understood. But I'd hate to argue with you,(and I say this with the upmost respect towards your knowledge) but the information on the DX page says that it outputs 2.8 amps "2800mA regulated current output".

And I will probably buy the custom heat sink, and I found a bare p7 on DX. If I buy the $25 custom heatsink, the bare p7, and the DX driver will everything work fine? Or do you stongly suggest the Buck driver...


----------



## Justin Case

SmurfTacular said:


> hmm... understood. But I'd hate to argue with you,(and I say this with the upmost respect towards your knowledge) but the information on the DX page says that it outputs 2.8 amps "2800mA regulated current output".
> 
> And I will probably buy the custom heat sink, and I found a bare p7 on DX. If I buy the $25 custom heatsink, the bare p7, and the DX driver will everything work fine? Or do you stongly suggest the Buck driver...




The DX info refers to the drive current that the driver delivers. Sure, 2.8A. And I said that the SS24 diode that the driver uses is rated at only 2A, and thus it is being run out of spec. 2.8A > 2.0A ---> diode is run out of spec. What's your argument?

The DX driver *is* a buck driver.

IMO, you use DX and KD 2.8A drivers at your own risk. They are ok when dealing with 1A drive currents. You are looking at about 4W of power draw by the driver. IMO, the 2.8A drivers are iffy. Now you are looking at over 10W of power draw by the driver, and things like component selection, thermal management, and driver efficiency really start to matter.

I personally would not use that driver simply because of the apparent use of a component that is being run out of spec. But that's me. I want reliability. I don't want to worry that the diode is going to burn up if I use the light for long, continuous runs.


----------



## SmurfTacular

Witch board would be best? can you give me a link? Can I buy a board that is just on and off? I don't want any strobe or SOS feature. I assume the more modes it has the more difficult it is to solder. 

Also, how do you install different modes on a Maglite if theres just a clickie on/off?


----------



## 420light

On the Shining Beam 2.5 amp board I just used, you basically can cycle through the modes but doing a half press. It is NOT any more hard to solder it in. The modes come by way of the little pwm chip on the board. You still have your LED + and - and VOLTAGE POS. and NEG.

Since you are doing a 5C I would suggest a TASKLED or SandwichShoppe board. Get a hip CC as_ *Justin Case *_suggested or a Shark Buck 3 Amp and put it on a Shark Sink C. 

By the way you have a heat sink yet?


----------



## JHM

Thanks for the great thread.

I've been working on my first mod in a 2D mag, P7 and some sort of driver/battery combination, this has answered a few questions that I had lingering.

This has eliminated a couple of drivers from my possibles list, though I might push them (bought them already) and see how long it takes to fail.. 

Great advice all around. Good to see I'm not the only one hanging up on basic things.


----------



## SmurfTacular

420light said:


> On the Shining Beam 2.5 amp board I just used, you basically can cycle through the modes but doing a half press. It is NOT any more hard to solder it in. The modes come by way of the little pwm chip on the board. You still have your LED + and - and VOLTAGE POS. and NEG.
> 
> Since you are doing a 5C I would suggest a TASKLED or SandwichShoppe board. Get a hip CC as_ *Justin Case *_suggested or a Shark Buck 3 Amp and put it on a Shark Sink C.
> 
> By the way you have a heat sink yet?



I just bought one off of H22A. Is there a specific type of heatsink? Because I think hes selling 2 types for C maglites.

Also, thanks for the clarification on the modes for boards. I literally have no idea witch one I should buy. Witch one is the easiest and most user friendly to install? Because this would be my first Maglite Mod. I have little experience soldering with RC cars...


----------



## 420light

JHM said:


> Thanks for the great thread.
> 
> 
> This has eliminated a couple of drivers from my possibles list, though I might push them (bought them already) and see how long it takes to fail..




What drivers did you buy already? SMURF is doing a 5 C cell Mag, so he has about 7.5 volts on Alkalines. Your 2 D is only at 3.2 Volts with Alkalines.

I want to do this to my Red 2D https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205326 your batteries would be 7.2 volts with this setup.


----------



## Justin Case

SmurfTacular said:


> I just bought one off of H22A. Is there a specific type of heatsink? Because I think hes selling 2 types for C maglites.
> 
> Also, thanks for the clarification on the modes for boards. I literally have no idea witch one I should buy. Witch one is the easiest and most user friendly to install? Because this would be my first Maglite Mod. I have little experience soldering with RC cars...


 
The first two photos in the H22A DHS sales thread show examples of hard anodized and unanodized heat sinks that fit single die Cree XR-E, Seoul P4, and Luxeon LEDs.

The next 3 photos under the title "P7 heat sinks are here" are ... drum roll please ... P7 heat sinks.

If you want to build a Cree XR-E, Seoul P4, or Luxeon Mag mod, then get an XR-E, P4, or Luxeon heat sink.

If you want to build a P7 Mag mod, you should get a P7 heat sink.

What are you trying to build? Is it still a 5C Mag with Seoul P7? Then get an H22A/DHS C Mag heat sink for a P7.

For LEDs with the slug connected to the anode (e.g., Seoul P4 and P7), a hard anodized heat sink helps to eliminate worries about shorting the slug on the heat sink. I'd suggest getting a hard anodized H22A/DHS heat sink regardless of what LED you use.

If you don't know what you are doing, I think it might be wise to spend the money to get a quality driver that is known to work and that has technical support from the vendor (who also happens to be the circuit designer). You can mess around with the cheap solutions and maybe it will work. Maybe it won't. Maybe it will work for a while and then give up the ghost. Then you will be back on square one wasting time and asking folks on CPF to help problem-solve some inherently problematical setup. And you'll get the same answer from me. Dump those silly, unreliable drivers, and get a Shark Buck 3A (assuming you still plan on running the P7 at full power) and heat sink it to a Shark Sink C. A hipCC is listed as 1.1" diam, and thus it is too big for a C Mag tube.

If you don't want to spend the money on a Shark Buck, then you could take the underdriven route and get a Kaidomain ProductID=1640 or Deal Extreme SKU 26110 buck driver to run the P7 at 1000mA drive current. You should still get around 300 lumens, assuming a D luminous flux bin P7. At 1000mA drive (250mA per core), driver thermal management should not be an issue and you could just hang the driver under the LED heat sink with no problems. Of course, you could also still thermally glue the driver to the Mag tube.

If you still want to run the P7 at full power but want a cheap driver solution, then see StefanFS's CPF tutorial on building a P7 Mag mod using AMC7135-based sandwich drivers. But you probably will have to switch to a different host from your 5C Mag. And you'll have to buy some NiMH cells, which will erase any cost savings from using a cheap driver.


----------



## SmurfTacular

420light said:


> What drivers did you buy already? SMURF is doing a 5 C cell Mag, so he has about 7.5 volts on Alkalines. Your 2 D is only at 3.2 Volts with Alkalines.
> 
> I want to do this to my Red 2D https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/205326 your batteries would be 7.2 volts with this setup.


 

I have purchased everything _BUT_ the driver. It concerns me because there are so many drivers that do different things, and output/input different voltages and whatnot. I almost bought the DX driver, but I definitely want 900 Lumens. I know a little about electronics compared to you guys.





Justin Case said:


> The first two photos in the H22A DHS sales thread show examples of hard anodized and unanodized heat sinks that fit single die Cree XR-E, Seoul P4, and Luxeon LEDs.
> 
> The next 3 photos under the title "P7 heat sinks are here" are ... drum roll please ... P7 heat sinks.
> 
> If you want to build a Cree XR-E, Seoul P4, or Luxeon Mag mod, then get an XR-E, P4, or Luxeon heat sink.
> 
> If you want to build a P7 Mag mod, you should get a P7 heat sink.
> 
> What are you trying to build? Is it still a 5C Mag with Seoul P7? Then get an H22A/DHS C Mag heat sink for a P7.
> 
> For LEDs with the slug connected to the anode (e.g., Seoul P4 and P7), a hard anodized heat sink helps to eliminate worries about shorting the slug on the heat sink. I'd suggest getting a hard anodized H22A/DHS heat sink regardless of what LED you use.
> 
> If you don't know what you are doing, I think it might be wise to spend the money to get a quality driver that is known to work and that has technical support from the vendor (who also happens to be the circuit designer). You can mess around with the cheap solutions and maybe it will work. Maybe it won't. Maybe it will work for a while and then give up the ghost. Then you will be back on square one wasting time and asking folks on CPF to help problem-solve some inherently problematical setup. And you'll get the same answer from me. Dump those silly, unreliable drivers, and get a Shark Buck 3A (assuming you still plan on running the P7 at full power) and heat sink it to a Shark Sink C. A hipCC is listed as 1.1" diam, and thus it is too big for a C Mag tube.
> 
> If you don't want to spend the money on a Shark Buck, then you could take the underdriven route and get a Kaidomain ProductID=1640 or Deal Extreme SKU 26110 buck driver to run the P7 at 1000mA drive current. You should still get around 300 lumens, assuming a D luminous flux bin P7. At 1000mA drive (250mA per core), driver thermal management should not be an issue and you could just hang the driver under the LED heat sink with no problems. Of course, you could also still thermally glue the driver to the Mag tube.
> 
> If you still want to run the P7 at full power but want a cheap driver solution, then see StefanFS's CPF tutorial on building a P7 Mag mod using AMC7135-based sandwich drivers. But you probably will have to switch to a different host from your 5C Mag. And you'll have to buy some NiMH cells, which will erase any cost savings from using a cheap driver.



Yes I still plan on modding my 5C Maglite. And I definitely want all the power I can get. But your telling me that the driver that would be most suitable wont physically in the 5C Maglite. Then what will?


----------



## Justin Case

*"...get a Shark Buck 3A (assuming you still plan on running the P7 at full power)..."*


----------



## SmurfTacular

ok I bought it... you don't have to be such a meanie head :nana:


----------



## 420light

Justin Case said:


> *"...get a Shark Buck 3A (assuming you still plan on running the P7 at full power)..."*




Holy crap JustinCase, I did not expect to see that as I scrolled down. *But hey you Finally got your point across.*:laughing::laughing:

Good luck on the Mod Smurf. Come back and post pics.


----------



## GarageBoy

BTW: it's a 5/64" allen to take out the screw for the switch (officially)


----------



## SmurfTacular

GarageBoy said:


> BTW: it's a 5/64" allen to take out the screw for the switch (officially)



thank you, it only took me about 3 different Allen keys to figure that out lol


----------



## GarageBoy

BTW; how do you head sink a hipCC or a Der Witchel driver?


----------



## rokspydr

what is the input voltage range for the shark buck 3A?


----------



## shdwkeeper

Thanks for that. The 2 has always worked 



GarageBoy said:


> BTW: it's a 5/64" allen to take out the screw for the switch (officially)


----------



## Flanders

anyone tried an aspherical lens with their maglite mod? just wondering how well it worked and if you have any beam shots?

thanks


----------



## LonghunterCO

*Re: 4 D MAG to P7 Please Help.*



Justin Case said:


> #3
> 
> *If instead, you were doing a 3D Mag mod and used an I-bin P7 with Vf~3.3V, then the LED might use about 3.3V*2.8A = 9.2W of power. 3xD NIMH might have Vin~3.6V, giving an AMC7135 driver efficiency of about 92%. At that efficiency, the driver has to generate about 9.2W/92% = 10W, or about 0.8W of waste heat. You probably can get away with no heat sinking of the driver.*
> 
> 
> 
> I think that this is what I would like to do. I have a couple P7 CSWNI comming in to run in a 3D mag. You state that you do not think that this would require a heat sink for the AMC7135 driver? Could that be heatsinked to the back of the P7 SSC HAIII Heatsink or is that too much trouble for what you get in return? Also where is the best place to get the AMC7135 driver at?
> 
> Sorry noob here. First mod.
Click to expand...


----------



## Justin Case

It not too much trouble to thermal glue the driver to the bottom of the heat sink. I'd use Arctic Alumina adhesive for that job. The main issue I see is that the thickness of adhesive you'd need to attach the flat driver to a curved surface is going to be large. Thermal resistance is (bond line thickness)/(thermal conductivity of the adhesive*effective contact area). Thus, it is unclear to me if there is really much benefit. You will have a large contact area, but your bond line thickness is also going to be huge. Normally, you want a very thin bond line thickness, on the order of a few thousandths of an inch max.

Maybe you can make all of your solder connections to the driver from the component side. That would allow you to glue the non-component side of the driver to the flat underside of the heat sink, rather that to the curved sidewall of the heat sink's driver cavity (if the sink you are using has such a cavity -- not all do).

IMO, it is better to heat sink the driver to the Mag tube. Sinking the driver to the LED heat sink just adds another direct source of heat that the sink has to deal with. Since LEDs are heat sensitive, why add more burden to the LED heat sink's job? But sinking the driver to the Mag tube is trickier unless you can use a SharkSink or something similar.

DX sells single mode, 1400mA, 7135 drivers in 10- and 20-packs. You can assemble two boards in parallel for 2800mA operation. If you want multimode, you can wire up one of the single mode 1400mA drivers with a 1050mA DX7612 multimode driver to get 2450mA max drive current. If you want full 2800mA, de-solder one 7135 chip from a spare board and solder the chip onto the DX7612 in the empty spot on the board.

StefanFS' P7 Mag mod guide show how to wire a DX7612 to a single mode 7135 driver.


----------



## Al Combs

Here is a very good idea for heat sinking drivers. Post 10 of the same thread shows the author heat sinking a multi-level AMC7135. The only thing I would have done different is Arctic Alumina epoxy the chip side of the driver directly to the copper for a better thermal path. One board for each side of the copper tab. The downside would be no possibility of repair if necessary. Fiberglass without a thermal vias is really a lousy way to conduct heat. Those 7135 boards are quite thick for their small size. Then use AA or AS compound (not glue) between the copper ring and the battery tube.

I agree with Justin though that for 3*NiMH, a heat sink is probably unnecessary.


----------



## Justin Case

I forgot about that very nice DIY heat sinking solution.

Sinking to the component side is probably fairly easy if you are making a 2 board, single mode, 2800mA 7135 sandwich driver. But for a two-board, multimode 7135 sandwich driver, there are a lot of wires coming out of the multimode half. See for example the driver sandwiches in StefanFS's tutorial. Some of the wires can be connected from the non-component side, but I don't think all can be done that way. At least not easily. 

In any case, the 7135 has built-in thermal protection, shutting down the chip if it reaches 150C. Also, the power dissipation is distributed over two separate (and perhaps separated) boards.


----------



## SmurfTacular

Can you do this with an LED 3D Maglite?


And as far as heatsinking a driver, how would that work with the 8x7135 driver? I bought it in this thread:



https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/168062


----------



## tnathletics2b

I modded my maglite exactly as shown and it didn't work. The only thing I can think of would be my soldering to the leads of the LED. Do you solder to both on each side? If you solder on the left on one side, do I need to solder to the left one on the other side?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## SmurfTacular

tnathletics2b said:


> I modded my maglite exactly as shown and it didn't work. The only thing I can think of would be my soldering to the leads of the LED. Do you solder to both on each side? If you solder on the left on one side, do I need to solder to the left one on the other side?
> 
> Thanks a lot!



On a P7 there are four tabs. 2 tabs right next to each other on each side. As long as you solder the wire on one or both tabs on +, and solder a different wire on one or both on - you should be good.

Are you running direct drive (DD)? Or are you using a driver/regulator?

My guess is that you wired it with reverse polarity witch may burn out the P7. Or you didn't make a solid solder connection from your switch to the two wires.

I would love to see some pictures.

Answer me this; do you have a multimeter?


----------



## tnathletics2b

SmurfTacular said:


> On a P7 there are four tabs. 2 tabs right next to each other on each side. As long as you solder the wire on one or both tabs on +, and solder a different wire on one or both on - you should be good.
> 
> Are you running direct drive (DD)? Or are you using a driver/regulator?
> 
> My guess is that you wired it with reverse polarity witch may burn out the P7. Or you didn't make a solid solder connection from your switch to the two wires.
> 
> I would love to see some pictures.
> 
> Answer me this; do you have a multimeter?



I did solder one wire to one side, and the other wire to the other side. I am running direct drive. I took the best picture I could of the wiring to the switch...I can modify my setup and take another pic if you need me to. I don't have a multimeter- would that be able to tell me for sure if I messed up?

Also, another point of possible error is that I wired the switch and LED together before I put it into the flashlight and had to cut the wire, insert the switch and solder the ends back together in the middle. If the exposed wire had touched when I turned the flashlight on would that have done something?

The positive end...






The negative end...





Inside looking at the switch...


Thank you for you very prompt reply- I was so excited about this and so disappointed when it didn't come on! :shakehead

EDIT: The pics didn't post...maybe I haven't reached a post minimum? The link to the Picasa album is here.
#1 is positive end of LED
#2 is negative end of LED (I soldered to the tab with the hole in it)
#3 is the switch


----------



## recDNA

I also have an old 4 X D Maglite gathering dust. Could I use an SST-50 directly driven by 4 X D NiMH cells in the exact setup described in the first post?

Forgeddabout it if I need a driver too. ugh


----------



## tnathletics2b

In reference to my posts above...

I bought a multimeter to test current. I put one lead on the negative end of the last battery while it was in the flashlight and put the other lead on the tailcap. Got nothing. 

Anyone know of possible problem spots for this?

Thanks!


----------



## tnathletics2b

My Maglite is from c. 1990 and is a little beat up. As a result, the negative lead on my switch is a little loose. When I apply pressure, everything works! I just need to modify the switch a bit to get it going right.


----------



## shdwkeeper

New ones are $15-$20 :nana::nana:



tnathletics2b said:


> My Maglite is from c. 1990 and is a little beat up. As a result, the negative lead on my switch is a little loose. When I apply pressure, everything works! I just need to modify the switch a bit to get it going right.


----------



## tnathletics2b

shdwkeeper said:


> New ones are $15-$20 :nana::nana:


 
Haha, I did end up buying a new one! :laughing:


----------



## jovanwyk

Quick question from a Newby.

I have a maglite with DL as the first two digits in the serial number. Would the P7 & heatsink combo at Britelumens.com fit the host? I'm just curious since on Malkoff.com they specifically state that if your maglite starts with DL then their drop in wont fit. 

Regards,

Jovanwyk


----------



## junglewarrior

Hi, that tutorial is awesome! I have a 4D Maglite that has battery damage (cheap cell started leaking some gas or something and has stopped the whole thing from working - also corroded the 'shiny' on the reflector which has now gone blue - bad times)

Assuming I can strip down and clean all the internals sufficiently, would this mod work with a 4D? To think I was going to throw this in the bin until I found this site and post!

Any help would be great as I loved this torch and want to get it back to its former glory!

Cheers Mark


----------



## SmurfTacular

junglewarrior said:


> Hi, that tutorial is awesome! I have a 4D Maglite that has battery damage (cheap cell started leaking some gas or something and has stopped the whole thing from working - also corroded the 'shiny' on the reflector which has now gone blue - bad times)
> 
> Assuming I can strip down and clean all the internals sufficiently, would this mod work with a 4D? To think I was going to throw this in the bin until I found this site and post!
> 
> Any help would be great as I loved this torch and want to get it back to its former glory!
> 
> Cheers Mark



You would either have to use a driver/regulator, or use rechargeable Nimh batteries, or both. 4 D cell alkalines is 6 volts, the forward voltage on a single P7 is 3.6. If you are determined to do this build, buy one of CPF members P7 drivers here. You want the x8 7135 driver. And as far as the reflector goes you would have to buy a new one.

Oh, and :welcome:


----------



## ozzy702

Stupid newb question here, I've never soldered anything but I can weld and watched a few vids on youtube about soldering. What type of solder should I use for this project? I've ordered up all the parts and am excited to jump into my first (certainly not my last) light mod.


----------



## JamisonM

ozzy702 said:


> Stupid newb question here, I've never soldered anything but I can weld and watched a few vids on youtube about soldering. What type of solder should I use for this project? I've ordered up all the parts and am excited to jump into my first (certainly not my last) light mod.


You don't need anything fancy. I use plain 60/40 flux core solder from the local radioshack. I've used that stuff in all of my mods I've done since my first one and it has yet to fail me.


----------



## pri0n

Thanks for posting up this guide and for the P7! Super fun mod, and it sure does blow everything else away(at least everything that people i know have) I made a little comparison pic of original maglite and the p7 mod.


----------



## shdwkeeper

I know it's crazy bright. Glad you enjoyed the mod as I enjoy it as well.



pri0n said:


> Thanks for posting up this guide and for the P7! Super fun mod, and it sure does blow everything else away(at least everything that people i know have) I made a little comparison pic of original maglite and the p7 mod.


----------



## Justin Case

ozzy702 said:


> Stupid newb question here, I've never soldered anything but I can weld and watched a few vids on youtube about soldering. What type of solder should I use for this project? I've ordered up all the parts and am excited to jump into my first (certainly not my last) light mod.



IMO thin diameter solder, say 0.015" or 0.022", is preferable. If I wanted to get fancy, I would select something like a Kester 245 solder. I would also consider getting a flux pen like a Kester 186. Regarding the Kester 245 and its eutectic Pb-Sn composition -- it's a nice to have, but IMO 60-40 instead of 63-37 also will work out just fine. I bet that for 99% of tasks, a thin 60-40 rosin core solder from Radio Shack will work great.


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## ozzy702

I just purchased 2 new 3D maglites and attempted to take them apart and to my surprise the 5/64" allen didn't fit. Just to make sure I had the right size I grabbed my 5 year old mag and sure enough the 5/64" fits great. I tried peering into the switch and it looks like they are actually a small torx. Is this possible? If so, where in the world do I get the right bit?


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## Justin Case

ozzy702 said:


> I just purchased 2 new 3D maglites and attempted to take them apart and to my surprise the 5/64" allen didn't fit. Just to make sure I had the right size I grabbed my 5 year old mag and sure enough the 5/64" fits great. I tried peering into the switch and it looks like they are actually a small torx. Is this possible? If so, where in the world do I get the right bit?



See the discussion here.


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## ozzy702

Thanks! I finally found a torx that would work after I took my grinder to it.


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## andy7046

Thanks for this step-by-step guide. I have been very interested in high power flashlights and heard of modding, but wasn't sure where to begin. i'm so glad i had a friend point me to this site. 
thanks for the post.


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## sam-joseph

Hello all. This is post No. 1. Anyway, I was wondering how to breathe new life into my 4D Mag, when I saw this excellent tutorial. I've been tinkering with some Chinese Led torches, Cree, Trustfire 900lumen,Fenix etc., and this looks to be a great way to start Modding. My problem is, I don't want to mess with circuit boards the first time out, so I was thinking I might use 3 x D's and make a dummy cell out of nylon with a copper strip core. Does that sound feasible? Or is there a D size dummy cell on the market? Another question, is the polarity the same as the traditional battery/globe setup? I saw a reference on DX that mentioned reversing the batteries...

Regard's
Glen

Edit. 24 hours have passed since my first post and I've changed my mind on the mod yet again. Would THIS bad boy work in a 4D mag?
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.35241

Can it run off 4 x D's (8.4 max. volts), or is it still a 3D option? There's also a P7, similar to this.

Regards
Glen


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## SmurfTacular

Yes it will fit. It has been done. You will have to lathe it to fit correctly into the Maglite head. Soldering required.


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## ecallahan

I don't have the pics to prove it, but I just successfully modded my first light. I've tried a few mods in the past that didn't work out too well. Thanks to this excellent tutorial, and other information I've gathered from reading through these forums, I now have a modded SSC P7 maglite, which I did myself. And it actually went smoothly. Thanks for taking the time to post this step by step, it made my day.


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## Brucolac

Hello

Im pretty new here, and I think I will use this tutorial to make my first mag p7. I reckon its wise to start on some p7 before I try to make me a sst-50 and an sst-90.
Iv been reading a lot here the last weeks and I have to say that Im real impressed with you guys, lookin at all thes wonderful lights


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## shdwkeeper

Brucolac said:


> Hello
> 
> Im pretty new here, and I think I will use this tutorial to make my first mag p7. I reckon its wise to start on some p7 before I try to make me a sst-50 and an sst-90.
> Iv been reading a lot here the last weeks and I have to say that Im real impressed with you guys, lookin at all thes wonderful lights



Once you get some of these built post some pics.


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## shdwkeeper

ecallahan said:


> I don't have the pics to prove it, but I just successfully modded my first light. I've tried a few mods in the past that didn't work out too well. Thanks to this excellent tutorial, and other information I've gathered from reading through these forums, I now have a modded SSC P7 maglite, which I did myself. And it actually went smoothly. Thanks for taking the time to post this step by step, it made my day.



Glad you enjoyed it, you should post some of your pictures now.


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## oldskoolsmith

This may sound like an odd question...
I have all kinds of PC power supplies sitting around, can I use these wires to connect the p7? Will they be less reliable?


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## shdwkeeper

oldskoolsmith said:


> This may sound like an odd question...
> I have all kinds of PC power supplies sitting around, can I use these wires to connect the p7? Will they be less reliable?



I would stick with Teflon wire, it can handle the heat much better, especially when soldering.


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## genius5th

this was great, looks so easy!


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## JamisonM

oldskoolsmith said:


> This may sound like an odd question...
> I have all kinds of PC power supplies sitting around, can I use these wires to connect the p7? Will they be less reliable?


Absolutely. I gutted an old PSU to make use of its metal case a couple of months ago. First thing I did was cut all the wires off. Be aware, that the insulation on the wires is PVC and will melt if they get too hot. Don't let that stop you from using them. You've got a big bundle of wire in different sizes that didn't cost you anything. The majority of wires should be 22awg. This is actually larger than the wire I've used (24awg) in my P7 mods. It will be more than sufficient to handle the current required to feed a P7.


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## oldskoolsmith

JamisonM said:


> Absolutely. I gutted an old PSU to make use of its metal case a couple of months ago. First thing I did was cut all the wires off. Be aware, that the insulation on the wires is PVC and will melt if they get too hot. Don't let that stop you from using them. You've got a big bundle of wire in different sizes that didn't cost you anything. The majority of wires should be 22awg. This is actually larger than the wire I've used (24awg) in my P7 mods. It will be more than sufficient to handle the current required to feed a P7.



Sorry about the late reply, I really appreciate the information. *I wanna give a huge thank you to all of you.* I've read through this entire thread twice now and I've been learning to solder fixing some electronics that were headed for the trash if I couldn't get them working, I'm feeling more confident and thinking I should add a driver to my first P7. This brings up some questions, I'm hoping to double check what I've read on this thread.

I've got a D-bin and heatsink in the mail along with nimh batteries and I've got spare 3 and 4 D maglites.

1. Would the following driver be appropriate to run on 3-4 nimh batteries as well as alkalines if necessary?

http://www.shiningbeam.com/servlet/the-132/3-dsh-Mode-Regulated-Circuit-Board/Detail

2. If so, is there any way I could use something like a SharkSink D to heatsink it to the body? I'm worried that I can't because it looks like there are wires on both sides.

3. What are the connectors used in the 4th picture on the following thread? Are there any online stores that have these? It looks like there is one type for the separate wires from the switch and another for the two that go to the LED.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...g-Pewter-Shark-Buck-3A-(Price-Drop)&p=3142621


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## LEDninja

4*NiMH give you 5.4V dropping to 4.8V.
3*NiMH give you 4.05V dropping to 3.6V.

The shining beam circuits use AMC 7135 IC chips as controllers.
From this thread it can be seen the 7135 circuits produce max output only at 4V and above. They still work at below 4V but at reduced output.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?192925-AMC7135-Specs-Inside-**UPDATE**

I would recommend 4D with the shinning beam circuit and direct drive with the 3D.


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## Justin Case

LEDninja said:


> From this thread it can be seen the 7135 circuits produce max output only at 4V and above. They still work at below 4V but at reduced output.
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?192925-AMC7135-Specs-Inside-**UPDATE**


 
That is an incomplete conclusion and can lead to an erroneous battery configuration approach.

First of all, the test data in post #1 is for a Cree XR-E Q5 with a fairly high Vf. So of course, Vbatt for regulation will probably be around 4.0V.

But now look at post #30, which uses a Seoul P4 that has a lower Vf. Now Vbatt for regulation is down to ~3.6V.

Finally, go to post #41, where a 1xAMC7135 test is conducted (0.35A drive nominal) and the protection diodes are removed. At such a low forward current, the SSC P4 Vf is probably around 3.0V or lower and it shows. Now Vbatt for regulation is at least 3.4V and most likely lower (the test didn't go low enough for Vin to test the hypothesis that removing the protection diodes will decrease the required Vbatt to reach regulation -- see my discussion in post #44).


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## oldskoolsmith

Justin Case said:


> That is an incomplete conclusion and can lead to an erroneous battery configuration approach.



So the driver will work with 3 or 4 nimh or alkalines to power a p7, but the efficiency of 3 vs 4 nimhs is the problem being discussed?

Is there any heatsinking needed for this board, especially if it is running 4 alkalines (6V)?


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## Justin Case

oldskoolsmith said:


> So the driver will work with 3 or 4 nimh or alkalines to power a p7, but the efficiency of 3 vs 4 nimhs is the problem being discussed?
> 
> Is there any heatsinking needed for this board, especially if it is running 4 alkalines (6V)?


 
I doubt that alkalines can deliver 2.8A at say 3.6V. You need NiMHs.

Efficiency is a secondary, or even tertiary, factor. In my mind, the primary issues are running in regulation, and running in regulation for a decent amount of time.

What that means is delivering enough Vbatt to reach regulation and to stay in regulation as the cells discharge and their voltages drop.

Read my post #44 in that AMC7135 thread. You need to satisfy two criteria -- Vf > 2.7V (with the reverse polarity diodes removed), and Vbatt,min > Vf + 0.12V. The first criteria should be no problem. At 2.8A drive, a P7 should have a Vf of at least 3.2V.

For the second criterion, Vbatt,min > perhaps 3.3V if you have a low Vf P7 (will be more if you have a higher Vf emitter). In reality, you probably need a few tenths more because of parasitic resistance in your flashlight, due to things like contact resistance (e.g., springs, cell-to-cell). So let's say that your Mag has a total parasitic resistance of 0.1 ohms. At ~3A, that is ~0.3V drop. So, you might need a Vbatt of about 3.6V to reach regulation for this hypothetical case.

Based on Silverfox's NiMH shootout data, 3xD Accupower NiMH (at least the Accupowers that he tested) can hold over 1.2V per cell at 5A draw. So those cells should give you near-max run time in regulation at the ~3A draw of an 8x7135 driver.

But if your P7 has a high Vf such that you need a Vbatt,min of say 3.9V, just to pick a value that is unfavorable, then you will need your cells to hold at least 1.3V under a 3A load. Looking at Silverfox's D Accupower curves, you can't get there from here, and so 3xD NiMH is out. You will need 4xNiMH to reach regulation and run in regulation for a satisfactory amount of time.

Also note that if you plan to use 3xAA Eneloops in D shell holders, the cells probably won't be able to hold above 1.2V per cell for very long and thus your run time in full regulation will be short. So, you will probably need 4xAA Eneloops for this batt configuration.

Alternatively, you could drive the P7 at a lower drive current, say 2.1A with 6x7135. At the lower drive current, LED Vf is also correspondingly lower and might allow you to use 3xNiMH, when you would have needed 4xNiMH if you chose an 8x7135 driver (2.8A).

To assess your situation, you need to be able to determine your LED's Vf at the relevant drive current.

Once you've established how many cells you need to run and stay in regulation, you're all set (assuming that Vbatt doesn't exceed the Vin rating of the 7135). Now efficiency comes into play. For the 7135, efficiency is essentially Vf/Vbatt. If the amount of waste heat isn't too bad, you might get away with no thermal management of the driver. IMO, if the waste heat starts to exceed 1W, I'd start to consider heat sinking the driver.

The large tab on each 7135 chip is the desired contact point for heat sinking. But, sinking to the 7135 case is better than nothing and probably easier to do. I'd probably use various convenient pieces from copper plumbing (easy to cut, bend, file, and shape) to thermally glue to the 7135 chips and then sink (thermally glue) the copper to the Mag tube.


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## oldskoolsmith

Thanks! I've looked up how to do the copper plumbing heatsink for the drive, which it seems like I'll need if I use 4 cells, doesn't seem too bad.

Is any modification to the driver necessary? The LED says 3.50 - 3.75V

The batteries I'll be using are 4 of these:

http://www.zbattery.com/NiMH-D-Cell-10000mAh-1-2V-Battery

Eventually I'd like to get some LSD cells, but those will have to do for now. If I end up without a way to charge those I may have to toss in alkalines, but I realize they won't work nearly as well/long, I'm just hoping they won't damage anything.


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## Justin Case

Ideally, you should actually measure the LED's Vf at the drive current of interest. But if you are intent on using 4xNiMH, then it doesn't matter. The actual forward voltage for any Vf-bin P7 will be sufficiently low for your battery configuration. I don't know anything about those zbattery cells. Assuming they are good quality, there should be no problem using four of them to drive your P7. You have plenty of Vbatt. I'd probably heat sink the driver. Alkalines should not damage anything. You just won't run in regulation for very long. But I bet you'll still get decent output for a little while. The way the 7135 drivers work, overall run time will be very long. It's just that you'll get steadily decreasing output with alkalines. With good D NiMH cells, the driver will stay in regulation for basically most of the run time of the cells and you'll get constant (and high) output.

You can remove the reverse polarity diodes from the driver if you so desire and replace them with short sections of wire.


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## richpalm

oldskoolsmith said:


> Thanks! I've looked up how to do the copper plumbing heatsink for the drive...



Plumbing heatsink for a D size? What kind, size, when, where, etc.? I'd love details!

Rich


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## oldskoolsmith

richpalm said:


> Plumbing heatsink for a D size? What kind, size, when, where, etc.? I'd love details!
> 
> Rich



I'm buying a place so it's been tossed in a box for a while. 
The idea is to buy a 35mm copper tube then cut a tab big enough for the driver, fold it 90 degrees and thermal paste the driver to the tube and the tube to the maglite body.


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## cyber5

Wow. I've been reading this forum for like 14 hours now. This is my first post, as I wanted to let the OP know that his photographs are awesome and the detailed instructions are great. 

I never knew there was such a "big" flashlight modding community, or how incredibly involved and fascinating it all is. I will be exploring more, for sure!


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## free_umi

Now sufficiently motivated to try tinkering instead of just reading. Whats the worst that could happen...... ;-)

Umi


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## jamie.91

Hi, doin my first mag mod:thumbsup:

Its a 2D mag, what battery configuration should i run, i dont want to use AA's, i dont know the number thing but can i not get D size lithiums or something?

My plan at the moment is direct drive but if there is 1 simple driver i can use i will, i want runtime and simplicity, not charging 8 AA batterys every time, 1 or 2 big cells would be better

Thanks for any help
Jamie


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## simplec6

Sure buddy, a 32600 or 32650 will fit your in a d mag. If you want to direct drive you'll just want one lithium ion battery. So you'll need a spacer for the space between the spring and the 32650


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## jamie.91

Thanks for the reply, is it safe on one of those? Not drawing to much power or anything? I know 2 will overdrive it to much butwill one be enough ? How many lumens and how long will the runtime be?

I have so many questions lol

Many thanks
Jamie


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## forrest

I've built several of these 3d mags with the p7's now I need some more p7's. Anybody know where to get some DSWOJ or dswoI's??? checked kaido and deal ext...Can't find them anymore Thanx!


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## Justin Case

jamie.91 said:


> Thanks for the reply, is it safe on one of those? Not drawing to much power or anything? I know 2 will overdrive it to much butwill one be enough ? How many lumens and how long will the runtime be?
> 
> I have so many questions lol
> 
> Many thanks
> Jamie



The amount of current drawn by the P7 is dictated by the LED's If vs Vf curve. A typical curve is shown in the SSC P7 datasheet. It is best to measure what LED Vf you have when the LED is driven at the desired drive current. A bench power supply can be useful for this purpose. You operate the supply under voltage regulation and observe what voltage setting is required to deliver 3A to the LED. That is your target Vf. The datasheet gives typical values for Vf. IIRC, depending on Vf bin, it could be 3.25V-3.50V or 3.50V-3.75V at 3A drive.

Now, you have to consider your battery supply, presumably a single Li-ion. The Li-ion will start out at 4.2V (assuming a fresh cell charge to 100% capacity), sag with some degree of rapidity to some quasi-steady state voltage (say 3.7V), and head downhill to depletion (say 3.2V or whatever).

If the voltage sag from 4.2V to QSS is slow, then you are overdriving the P7 for that amount of time, since the Vf at 3A is less than 4.2V. The P7 might not like that and you should use a voltage drop resistor.

If the Li-ion sags "immediately" to say 3.7V, then you *may* be ok, depending on the LED Vf at 3A. If you have a low Vf LED, say 3.3V, then you still need a resistor. Unless you have heat sinking sufficient to handle to overdrive.

The challenge is picking the Vbatt to use to calculate the value for you voltage drop resistor.


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## jamie.91

I don't have a clue how to do the above, but I planning finding out! 

Thanks for the reply
Jamie


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## StefanFS

Hello Jamie91!

A simple AMC7135 driver from a number of suppliers on several continents that drive one Cree XM-L emitter. Using three C NiMh cells will work wonderfully in a 2D host. Need to remove the anodising in the tailcap and cut the spring so it fits in the recess. Also something to make a tube to support the cells in the body. I have found that 1.4-2A is an ideal compromise between runtime and output.

Stefan


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## jamie.91

Thanks for the reply! Could you pm me a link to somewhere that sells the please 

I'm a little confused about driver and cell set up, especially with the double piggy back circuit things lol

Thanks Jamie


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## shdwkeeper

Wow, can't believe I wrote this "How To" almost 3yrs ago.

Hopefully this helped a lot of folks out 

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and positive comments.


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## frontlight

I just ordered everything (I think) I need for 2 P7 mag mods. I'm going to build one direct drive and then try my hand at the more complicated builds. Thanks for this great tutorial.


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## Joscha

frontlight said:


> I just ordered everything (I think) I need for 2 P7 mag mods. I'm going to build one direct drive and then try my hand at the more complicated builds. Thanks for this great tutorial.



Where did you order the heatsink?


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