# LED LENSER P7 VS P14



## jettmech1 (Oct 21, 2009)

I have the LED LENSER P7 and the new 212 lumen P14. The P14 is brighter than the P7. Since the P14 has a larger head the beam on the P14 when the flashlight is in the full extended position is much brighter than the P7's beam when that light is also fully extended. for the size, the P7 is second to none. Although, if you want something with a little more kick, the P14 is the way to go. the P14 is the brightest light on the market for any AAA or AA operated flashlights.


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## kramer5150 (Oct 21, 2009)

Not even close (sorry in advance).... Fenix TK40 has you beat by a factor of ~3x. Theres also a new ITP light that uses multiple AA cells.

Anyone interested in LL products should look carefully at their cell requirements, many Lenser AA/AAA lights are not compatible with NiMH. Its not stated openly on the packaging, but if you inquire with LL they will provide the necessary details for your specific light.

You should also note that they are direct driven off those alkalines, so yes they will be bright initially but output will drop proportionally as the cell depletes over its lifespan.


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## John_Galt (Oct 21, 2009)

Try any other light, such as a Quark, Fenix, Jetbeam, etc. and you'll be blown away! Coast/LED Lenser lights are crap, and definitely not woth the price in comparison.

For one thing, C/LL lights are not regulated, in any way. They have no driver (computer chip to control current to LED, allow multiple modes), and instead rely upon a resistor, and the natural current resistance of alkaline cells to limit current to the LED. This is why they only allow the use of alkaline cells. The difference is pretty simple: a driver calculated the available voltages and currents, and determines whether or not to dim the light, thus showing you you have a dead battery, or continue to feed high current to the LED. A driven light usually has an output graph that is pretty flat, with a sharp drop off at the end, as the cells begin to be unable to provide the necessary power. 
A resistor-ed light, on the other hand, dims slowly over time, as the batteries begin to drain. They have a few minutes of initial brightness, then, as cell voltage drops, so does the available current, and the light dims over time. This is a bad thing, because it tells you your cells are dead, when they may only be partially depleted.

Secondly, most, if not all C/LL lights are poorly heatsinked. This means that the LED has no way to transfer the heat it produces to the body of the flashlight, which severely shortens the life expectancy of the light. This is why most C/LL lights do not get warm to the touch (which is, unbelievably, a good thing, if a light gets warm rather quickly, it means that there is an effective path for heat to transfer from the LED to the body, to allow your hand to cool the light).

Third, most (if not all, I'm not sure) C/LL lights are only anodized with Hard Anodizing, Level III (HA III). I believe they are only anodized to HA II. HA III is a much harder, more durable form of anodizing than HA II. In fact my dad has a Coast light he uses for work, where most of the anodizing has worn off in the last 2 years (and he barely ever has to use it, it stays in it's holster for the most part).

Fourth, C/LL lights use very inefficient battery arrangements. A single AA battery has the same capacity (nominally) as three AAA batteries. The reason C/LL uses a three and four AAA cell configuration is to provide adequate voltage to the LED, without a driver, under current drain (alkaline voltage sag is horrendous above a moderate-to-low current drain).

Take a look at some other brands, which are real quality, and much better bang for your buck, and prepare to be amazed.

Oh, and, :welcome:


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## hyperloop (Oct 21, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> Not even close (sorry in advance).... Fenix TK40 has you beat by a factor of ~3x. Theres also a new ITP light that uses multiple AA cells.
> 
> Anyone interested in these LL products should look carefully at their cell requirements, many Lenser AA/AAA lights are not compatible with NiMH. Its not stated openly on the packaging, but if you inquire with LL they will provide the necessary details.... NiMH+LL=:mecry::candle:
> 
> You should also note that they are direct driven off those alkalines, so yes they will be bright initially but output will drop proportionally as the cell depletes over its lifespan.



i beg to differ on this point, i have been running my P14 using eneloops and have not encountered 'poof-ing' (if there is such a term) yet and hopefully not for a long time to come. But if it does poof i'll retract this statement. 

+1 on being beaten by TK40 

I got the P14 on a whim and i find that i like it cos of its ability to focus from pure flood to a tight spot

I also own the P5 (1xAA) and run it on an eneloop with no issues so far and its a nice light too, surprisingly bright on NiMH


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## kramer5150 (Oct 21, 2009)

hyperloop said:


> i beg to differ on this point, i have been running my P14 using eneloops and have not encountered 'poof-ing' (if there is such a term) yet and hopefully not for a long time to come. But if it does poof i'll retract this statement.
> 
> +1 on being beaten by TK40
> 
> ...



I have reworded my statement... it was not intended to illustrate deficiencies of any specific model.

**edit**
Researching it further, you might want to think twice about using NiMH cells in this light. According to the brightguy product page Coast is against using NiMH cells in this light. They list a couple reasons. But they skate around the real reason... that direct driving an XR-E from 4xNiMH (with nothing more than a resistor) _may _overheat the emitter.

http://www.brightguy.com/products/Coast_P14_LED_Lenser_8414_Speed_Focus.php

I am not a Lenser basher, I have nothing to gain or loose from my statements. I just want to look out for those members who may own this light.. a simple friendly heads up.


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## hyperloop (Oct 22, 2009)

kramer5150 said:


> I have reworded my statement... it was not intended to illustrate deficiencies of any specific model.
> 
> **edit**
> Researching it further, you might want to think twice about using NiMH cells in this light. According to the brightguy product page Coast is against using NiMH cells in this light. They list a couple reasons. But they skate around the real reason... that direct driving an XR-E from 4xNiMH (with nothing more than a resistor) _may _overheat the emitter.
> ...



no worries, it was not read as bashing, which was why i 'begged' to differ 

As stated, the site says 'may', i'll take a chance on that. Perhaps i might lose some life on the LED but that's an acceptable trade off. I'll find out when i go for my Bali trip end November, i'll be bringing the P14 (amongst others) to see how it fares.


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## Jethro (Oct 22, 2009)

This may or may not be somewhat relevant to the thread... For the last year my best flashlight was a Coast LED Lenser I bought for $30-40 at Home Depot. It is a 3xAAA version, and does not have an adj. beam, just a lens that focuses to a very bright spot. I was convinced it was the perfect light. Very small, cheap, lightweight and a very bright hotspot. It's worked flawlessly for the past year or so with heavy use. 

Recently I came here to get info on my LED Lenser because a friend wanted to buy one. I can't find this particular model anywhere online or in a store. It took about 2 hours of browsing the forum to realize there are much better lights out there, not becasue of Coast/LL, just because there are better lights in general. Not more than a week and a half later I took possesion of my SF LX2.

About 2 days after getting the LX2 and while comparing beams outside, basically playing with the two lights, the Coast switch started malfunctioning. It's now a crapshoot as to if it actually turns on at all. 

Just trying to share my experience, not bashing Coast/LL at all. This is a very simple light and shouldn't have failed... but it did and I can no longer count on it.

Who knows, maybe the SF will fail in a year as well, but I doubt it, and even if it does I will be able to have SF fix it. With the LED Lenser it's basically dumpster food.


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## SureAddicted (Oct 22, 2009)

Hyperloop, hearing the pittyful excuse about "Led Lenser forbids the use of NiMH in their lights" is starting to get a bit embarrassing. I could think of a few a good manufacturers who do not recommend the use of 10440 cells in their lights, but does that stop people from using it, no. In those threads you dont hear people mentioning about that certain manufacturer who forbids the use of 10440, and they have great success. I think we both know what it comes down to, so its best to ignore statements like that. A lot of people here have great success using NiMH cells in their LL lights, myself included, so just laugh it off next time you read that kind of comment.

kramer5150, your comparing apples to oranges, the TK40 ~630 lumens will ofcourse be brighter than the P14 @ ~ 212 lumens, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out. Oh and the bit about not being compatible with NiMh, read the first paragraph.
I agree that it's not the brigtest AA light on the market, but I do believe its the best throwing AA light on the market.


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## kramer5150 (Oct 22, 2009)

SureAddicted said:


> _*I agree that it's not the brigtest AA light on the market, *_but I do believe its the best throwing AA light on the market.



...so we both agree on at least one thing.:rock:


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## Egsise (Oct 22, 2009)

SureAddicted said:


> Hyperloop, hearing the pittyful excuse about "Led Lenser forbids the use of NiMH in their lights" is starting to get a bit embarrassing. I could think of a few a good manufacturers who do not recommend the use of 10440 cells in their lights, but does that stop people from using it, no. In those threads you dont hear people mentioning about that certain manufacturer who forbids the use of 10440, and they have great success. I think we both know what it comes down to, so its best to ignore statements like that. A lot of people here have great success using NiMH cells in their LL lights, myself included, so just laugh it off next time you read that kind of comment.
> 
> kramer5150, your comparing apples to oranges, the TK40 ~630 lumens will ofcourse be brighter than the P14 @ ~ 212 lumens, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work that out. Oh and the bit about not being compatible with NiMh, read the first paragraph.
> I agree that it's not the brigtest AA light on the market, but I do believe its the best throwing AA light on the market.


:laughing:
Why is it so hard to accept that LL does not recommend NiMH/NiCad/lithium cells in their flashlights?
Just leave it, you should not incourage people to gamble just because you get away with it.

Deft.


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## hyperloop (Oct 22, 2009)

whoa there

i agree with everything that's been said, heck i have thrown a 10440 into my E01 for that matter.

It may just be that LED Lenser is just playing it safe and *recommending* that rechargeables not be used (perhaps some product liability issue here?), i dont think they outright said that "IT IS FORBIDDEN" (spoken in a deep booming deity like voice from the heavens) 

anyway, end of the day, i enjoy all my lights, i know there are bigger, badder and brighter than what i own and i can lust for those till my wallet grows fat again (if ever).

anyway, tis friday here in singapore, hope everyone has a great weekend.


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## Marduke (Oct 22, 2009)

hyperloop said:


> It may just be that LED Lenser is just playing it safe and *recommending* that rechargeables not be used (perhaps some product liability issue here?), i dont think they outright said that "IT IS FORBIDDEN" (spoken in a deep booming deity like voice from the heavens)



Well, to me, these statements mean "forbidden"
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/219121



> please use only alkaline Batteries in our products. All other batteries also lithium and accu cells can damage the electronic or the LED.


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## kramer5150 (Oct 23, 2009)

Marduke said:


> Well, to me, these statements mean "forbidden"
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/219121



thanks... that was the thread I was looking for originally, and the one I was thinking about when I replied to this thread here.


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## hyperloop (Oct 23, 2009)

Sir! Yes Sir! Removing NiMHs immediately sir! 

lovecpf


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## SureAddicted (Oct 23, 2009)

Egsise said:


> :laughing:
> Why is it so hard to accept that LL does not recommend NiMH/NiCad/lithium cells in their flashlights?
> Just leave it, you should not incourage people to gamble just because you get away with it.
> 
> Deft.



I going to provide 2 exerts.

1. This light in question is popular here on CPF. The Manufacturer states:
*Battery: 1 x AAA, 1 x Rechargeable NiMh AAA, or 1 x 10420 
(Due to the small light body size,10420 batteries 
are not recommended since it may cause the light become hot very quickly.)*

2. This exert is from a very well known, respected Retailer here at CPF. The light in question is very popular.
* Can the **** use 3.7V lithium-ion rechargeable batteries?*
_No. Using 3.7V lithium-ion rechargeable batteries will lower the life of the LED and will also remove the lower output modes entirely._

The second exert, many many users here at CPF are doing just that, running 10440 in that specific light, same with the first exert. Funnily enough I never come by these comments in those threads.
Now you can interpret this anyway you want. The first I saw of people using NiMH in their LL lights was here on CPF. I followed suit. After about a year or more, I have not had any problems with using NiMH, also I have NOT come across a single thread where someone has had a malfunction due to running NiMH in their LL lights. 
Seems to me like you need to use the search function, there are many here at CPF who use NiMH, its old news, but to you seems like it isnt. I'm not encouraging a single thing, I'm just echoing on what others are doing.
I provided 2 exerts, I could of easily provided more. Be my guest, use the search function, enlighten yourself. 
Next time get your facts straight before you post a comment.


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## Egsise (Oct 23, 2009)

And still you can not change the fact that the manufacturer does not recommend NiMH/NiCad/lithiums. :nana:


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## StingKing (Oct 23, 2009)

So sick of every time there is a led lenser thread it turns into bashing.
Stay on topic and lets keep it positive, if you dont like the lights in question and have nothing constructive to say, click the back button. 
Yes, i agree the P14 is a cracker of a torch with really good throw. Its one of the most popular sellers in the camping shop i work at, and we carry a good selection of lights from surefire, olight, itp, led lenser, inova.....
The led lenser stuff sells the best cause your average customer knows nothing of regulation, lumen outputs and the like, they just see its really bright, focuses well and runs on simple batties you find at the corner store.....


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## kramer5150 (Oct 23, 2009)

StingKing said:


> So sick of every time there is a led lenser thread it turns into bashing.
> Stay on topic and lets keep it positive, if you dont like the lights in question and have nothing constructive to say, click the back button.
> Yes, i agree the P14 is a cracker of a torch with really good throw. Its one of the most popular sellers in the camping shop i work at, and we carry a good selection of lights from surefire, olight, itp, led lenser, inova.....
> The led lenser stuff sells the best cause your average customer knows nothing of regulation, lumen outputs and the like, they just see its really bright, focuses well and runs on simple batties you find at the corner store.....



All lights have their strengths and weaknesses. Its up to the consumer to pick products that match his/her requirements. Thus far I think this thread has been a civil and polite exchange of information, illustrating both the strengths and weaknesses of a product.

CPF is not just about glowing praise for everything.


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## Egsise (Oct 23, 2009)

StingKing said:


> So sick of every time there is a led lenser thread it turns into bashing.
> Stay on topic and lets keep it positive, if you dont like the lights in question and have nothing constructive to say, click the back button.
> Yes, i agree the P14 is a cracker of a torch with really good throw. Its one of the most popular sellers in the camping shop i work at, and we carry a good selection of lights from surefire, olight, itp, led lenser, inova.....
> The led lenser stuff sells the best cause your average customer knows nothing of regulation, lumen outputs and the like, they just see its really bright, focuses well and runs on simple batties you find at the corner store.....


Yeah sorry....
You are right, for average consumer Led Lensers are great lights.


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## apontes (Oct 23, 2009)

Egsise said:


> Yeah sorry....
> You are right, for average consumer Led Lensers are great lights.



Until their ~80$ flashlight gets eaten up by alkaline leakage...



I would gladly buy a P14 if not for its unreasonable price.


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## mknewman (Oct 23, 2009)

I have a LED Lenser P14 that the wife and kid bought me last father's day when they saw me looking at the flashlight isle in Frys. It's an OK flashlight for around the house, and my daughter took it to camp and said she liked it. In the mean time I've found the light and gotten several really good quality lights, most Solarforce L2, some customs, and such. I don't know what to do with the Coast. I'd love to mod it but it really doesn't lend itself to that. 

The main complaint I have with it is the zoom, in the focused mode there are really bad circles, with a nice hotspot. In the wide mode it's extremely floody and looks pretty decent.

It's about as bright as most of my lights that are a fraction of it's size and about the same cost (about $70).

Marc


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## shark_za (Oct 24, 2009)

Can the same be said about the 1AA P5 ? 
It looks like the one to get in the range? 

Surely a NiMh is right in this one?


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## Swedpat (Oct 24, 2009)

I have two Led lenser lights. Actually my first ever LED-flashlight was Ledlenser 3xAAA Quadrat plus (I think it was named). This model I have been used without problem with NiMh cells. The advantage is that the brightness holds at a high level much longer time than with alkalines.

Last spring I bought a P14. This light I found very interesting when I read about it, though I didn't like Led Lensers several hundred hours runtime statement, combined with that they state that NiMh is harmful for the light. 
However, when I have used this light with alkalines I have to say that the brightness seems to be high at quite long time. I have not measured, but someone said that it's visibly stable output for 2-3 hours, and I think it can be correct.

More about P14: the possibility to change the beam with the one hand operation is very nice. It combines a very wide, and compared to reflector based lights, clearly superior even beam, with a throw ability outperforming the most 2xCr123 lights. Between these choices a very bright (though ringy) narrower beam is available. Though clearly noticable on a white wall test the rings are likely hardly noticable out in the field.

I absolutely not consider P14 as junk, but it has it's drawbacks. The heatsink may be insufficient, but during constant run I found that the brightness, though dropped more than a Fenix, not nearly dropped to the level of for example Maglite LED light. (I read that the brightness of MagLED halved after a short time)
The one hand operation focusing system with the moving head is a vulnerable part of the light. The tint is cool, a bit too cool in my opinion.

But apart from that; it's a flashlight I feel belongs to the flashoholic's collection.

The idea of a lens light is very good, and such a light with a high quality lens (without providing rings), and a good heatsinking would make it a really good light!

About NiMh batteries I read that there are owners who have been used P14 long time with these cells without problem.

Regards, Patric


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## Egsise (Oct 25, 2009)

Drawbacks....the nice beam focusing system sucks.
Water is sucked in from those small holes in the head.


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## Nyctophiliac (Oct 25, 2009)

Egsise said:


> Drawbacks....the nice beam focusing system sucks.
> Water is sucked in from those small holes in the head.




Yup - it's not water tight - but I don't intend to take it to the pool.

Every night I cycle for a couple of hours - Health and wanderlust combined with a chance to use my torches as opposed to looking at them on a shelf.

My set up is LL P7 on the helmet - Eagletac 1AA on the handlebars (close light) and a Fenix L2D CE Q5 next to it (Distant).The rear lights are by Cats Eye - they're good.

Fenix and Eagle are run on highest setting and last about an hour for the Eagle and 2 hrs for the Fenix - pretty much as you'd expect.

The P7 gets a battery change after a couple of nights? - seems to last for twice the amount as the L2D CE. Also the beam is very useful for off roading - tight for long distance trail spotting and flood for uneven terrain - in fact the flood is easily my favourite beam for cycling. The one handed focus is great riding at speed!

Rain hasn't stopped it yet - and we get a lot of that here!

P14 not in my arsenal yet - but Christmas is coming - who knows?

Oh and BTW - always use NiMh's in my LL's - no problems yet - Had LL's on rechargeables for six years now and counting.

Nice thread.


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## hyperloop (Oct 26, 2009)

For the exact same reasons, i am diggin the ole' MTB out of storage and intending to head out. Still deciding on the layout of lights to be used (P14 isnt going to be feasible though it may tag along in a fanny pack just for fun, though more likely the smaller lights will come along).

glad to hear that rain hasnt affected the P7 yet, my light will probably be the P5 on the helmet, smaller and lighter but with decent output.


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## Nyctophiliac (Oct 26, 2009)

Have fun Hyperloop.

If you intend to bike through pitch black woods or rough terrain - I always fine the little lights don't cut it - tight beams are a no no - the more flood the better.

P5 will be OK - but its flood is a bit weaker than the P6 or 7. 

The other good thing is the focus is good for getting attention in traffic - directional beams to target those cars that are about to ignore you and run you over. I don't mean to dazzle, but I'd rather not go un-noticed first then under the wheels next!

That's also why I prefer to off road with the bike - safer than dicing with a lorry, bus or taxi!!

Christmas is coming.


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## don.gwapo (Feb 21, 2010)

Well, Fenix TK45 is coming out this March with 750-760 lumens with the XP-G R5 on 8 AA batteries. That's the best AA flashlight money can buy and it will be damn pretty bright.


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