# Real-World Beamshot Compilation: Common Incandescent/Hotwires



## RichS (Oct 18, 2009)

I’ve wanted to put a thread together for some time now devoted to real world beamshot comparisons of many of the more common incandescent/hotwires that are available. Thanks to this forum and some local fellow flashaholic friends, I either own or have access to many of these. This is a work in progress, and I hope to make a lot more progress over the next couple of months.

I am dividing this shootout into ranges – long and medium (maybe short, but not many incans fit into this) to get a better comparison of how each light performs compared to others in the same class. I started with lights suited to long range throw.

*Approach:* I used manual camera settings to capture the output very closely to what I saw with my eyes, while being able to see the results on the computer screen. I took three shots with each light, and kept the shot most focused and centered on the target of the three for each light. This way each light got a fair shake. Completely fresh primaries or fully charged batteries were used in each light.

So here we go…….

*Long** Range** Shootout: 140 yards (420 feet)*
This is a pretty good distance even for a stock M6 with the HOLA, and I only have a few lights that fit into this category. I also included a couple of throwy LEDs as well as a couple of HIDs in the shootout as well to provide a frame of reference for how these other technologies compare to some powerful incans. And I have to give a special thanks to fellow CPF’rs parkschr and Brewdog2001 for their help with this shootout and use of some of their lights!

*Camera Settings:* Fuji F30 / manual mode / white balance=daylight / ISO=200 / exposure = 3 seconds


*Lineup:*

Eagle-3 (2x18500)
FM 1794 (2x18650)
KT1 WA1111 (2x18650)
SureFire M6 Configs:
MN 21 Primaries
MN 21 (2x18650)
WA1111 (2x18650)
LF HO-M6R (3x17670)

Mag85 (3xAW ‘C’)
Mag623 (4xIMR ‘C’)
2 LEDs/2 HIDs added as a reference
DBS Q5 WC & Q4 5B
M2XC4 3xQ3 5A
Boxer 24W HID
POB 35W HID

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*Beamshots:* (ordered by least to most light on target) / shots cropped to better view the target
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*A couple of LEDs and HIDs as a reference:*
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*A couple of HID lights as a reference:*
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*All lights*





*M6 Config Comparison*
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*M6 (KT4) vs. KT1*







*Long** Range** Shootout Observations:*

140 yards is too much for the WE Eagle-3, but it just barely touched the target so I thought I’d include it as a reference for the low end.
LF HO-M6R is the M6 config winner! I don't use the 1185 in the M6 due to how harsh this bulb is on 3x17670s, and it just isn't a practical setup. After reviewing a lot of beamshots it is clear to me that the HO-M6R just barely edges out the WA1111 in the throw category when paired with the M6. And at only a 2.1A draw, this lamp is the clear winner to me in the M6 rechargeable category.
M6 vs. KT1: It’s settled – the KT1 and KT4 head of the M6 are not equal. I’ve read posts that claim the KT1 and KT4 reflectors are the same with the exception of the shock isolation on the KT4. This is not true. The texturing on the KT1 is a little more stipple than the M6 head, and this causes the KT4 to have more throw. The KT1 diverts more light to the corona and therefore gives less to the hotspot.
CL1794 – this is an extreme high output lamp, but throw is very limited due to the D26 reflector it typically has to be used in. Even with it’s output, it is best use for medium range purposes. It doesn’t do much better at reaching the target than the Eagle-3 due to it’s small reflector.
A huge increase in output is gained when running the MN21 on Li-ions vs. primaries, although not ideal due to the 5A+ load; it would be very worthwhile to get a couple of emoli's to run the MN21 instead of primaries, although it will reduce bulb life somewhat.
When comparing practical hotwires, the Mag85 is still king. Close to an hour of runtime on 3x ‘C’ li-ons and 1300 lumens…priceless.
Mag623 with 4xIMRs: This light is just sick…just don’t keep it on for more than 3 minutes or you’ll start to smell burning flesh..:devil:
-Rich


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## RichS (Oct 18, 2009)

Coming soon.. 


*Long Range Shootout Additions: 140 yards (420 feet)*

FM CL-1909
Mag458


*Medium** Range** Shootout: 70 yards (210 feet)* 

SureFire P60
SureFire P61
SureFire P90
SureFire P91
SureFire A2
Stock MA02
Strion Kit
LF HO A2

SureFire E2e
MN03
Strion Kit
TL-3

SureFire M6
MN20
MN15

LF HO-9
LF EO-9
CL1499
CL1794


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## Dioni (Oct 18, 2009)

Wow! 

Thanks Rich! Amazing beamshots! :devil:

Now..


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## DimeRazorback (Oct 18, 2009)

Excellent work!!

Thanks for the GREAT comparisons!

:twothumbs


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## 276 (Oct 18, 2009)

Wow that Mag623 is amazing!!!


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## Dioni (Oct 18, 2009)

The Mag623 was burning field!! :devil: 
[soybean field?]


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Oct 19, 2009)

I love it when people post useful 100 yd.+ beam shots.

I think I could actually see that farmer's field grow while you were shining that '623 on it!!!LOL


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## cernobila (Oct 19, 2009)

Excellent work, must have taken a lot of planning and effort to put this lot together, much appreciated.

btw, what do you think of your WE Boxer 24W. Not sure about the color, mine looks very white in real life.....


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## RichS (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks for all the kind words. Yep, that 623 is just insane..in person it does seem like it's going to just incinerate that soybean field.. I helped fellow CPF'r Brewdog2001 build "the beast" as he calls it, and he was nice enough to let me use it in the shootout - amazing light. But, until we put the FM 2.5" head on it, it was nothing but pure flood. I couldn't believe the difference that huge reflector made. I would say it's _almost_ a requirement for the 623. The 3" would even be more of an improvement, but the 2.5" is a "beast" in itself. Here it is compared to the DBS reflector:









cernobila said:


> Excellent work, must have taken a lot of planning and effort to put this lot together, much appreciated.
> 
> btw, what do you think of your WE Boxer 24W. Not sure about the color, mine looks very white in real life.....


 
Thanks cernobila - I have always very much appreciated your work as well. I absolutely love my Boxer. When I'm not using my incans, I don't notice the bluish-white tint. It just seems white to me too. However, even to my eye it did look very bluish when doing this incan shootout. It does seem to wash things out in the pic, but when I get it out to use it in the woods, everything does seem nice and 3D. So I think your eyes adjust to the tint. I really want to mod it with a 4000K bulb eventually. The best thing is the 1800 lumens with an hour of runtime though...:huh:


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## cernobila (Oct 19, 2009)

RichS said:


> When I'm not using my incans, I don't notice the bluish-white tint. It just seems white to me too. However, even to my eye it did look very bluish when doing this incan shootout. It does seem to wash things out in the pic, but when I get it out to use it in the woods, everything does seem nice and 3D. So I think your eyes adjust to the tint. I really want to mod it with a 4000K bulb eventually. The best thing is the 1800 lumens with an hour of runtime though...:huh:



Yes I think when you use the warmer Incans together with the Boxer, the Boxer looks cooler than it is when used on its own.......amazing that with the AW 2.6A 18650 cells, you get well over an hour of 1800 lumens, not too many lights can do that.

btw, what bulb is used in the "623" 4x Li-Ion cell light?.......I know, everyone else already knows this. 

added.......its ok, I now know the 64623 bulb.......


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## Brewdog2001 (Oct 19, 2009)

Thanks RichS for the street cred for the 623. It was a pleasure helping you with these beam shots and showing folks just what these lights look like in the real world, and how they stack up in power. Hopefully I will get some time to start on my next beast, and then we can take some more beam shots and close-ups to share with everyone.



-Brewdog2001

lovecpf


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## Billy Ram (Oct 20, 2009)

Very interesting Gives me a good idea what to expect from my mag85 I'm putting together with a Throw Master head. I just believe you can't beat a good mag85.
I like stuff like this:thumbsup: Keep it up.
Billy


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## RichS (Oct 20, 2009)

Updated OP: re-arranged shots in side by side format to improve comparison review.


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## [email protected] (Oct 22, 2009)

Nice work RichS :thumbsup:





ANDREAS FERRARI said:


> I love it when people post useful 100 yd.+ beam shots.



Hey I use 100 yard ranged targets (91.44 meters) and upwards :nana:


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## Swagg (Jan 30, 2010)

Great post! Now I must get that FM reflector!!!


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## andyw513 (Feb 1, 2010)

Great post, those are very helpful shots, especially to those that frequent strip jobs for camping and want to find out what made that limb break out past what your EDC will shine.

This will really let people know what light that they should get and for what purpose. 

Even helpful for comparisons to other lights with the same bulb/configurations.


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## RichS (Feb 1, 2010)

Swagg said:


> Great post! Now I must get that FM reflector!!!


Thanks Swagg. You really have to see the FM reflector in person to appreciate it..it's absolutely art..



andyw513 said:


> Great post, those are very helpful shots, especially to those that frequent strip jobs for camping and want to find out what made that limb break out past what your EDC will shine.
> 
> This will really let people know what light that they should get and for what purpose.
> 
> Even helpful for comparisons to other lights with the same bulb/configurations.


 
Thanks Andy. I was really hoping to get the short/medium range shots done before Winter, but it just came too quick..and I'm not standing out there for hours in the kind of cold we've had in Ohio so far...


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## andyw513 (Feb 1, 2010)

No problem, I'd take some shots myself but it's Siberian weather here in Kentucky, too. Soon as the weather breaks I'm gonna start back with some of mine, hopefully the HID I have on order will come in by then to make things interesting.


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## Yavox (Feb 1, 2010)

RichS said:


> Thanks for all the kind words. Yep, that 623 is just insane..in person it does seem like it's going to just incinerate that soybean field.. I helped fellow CPF'r Brewdog2001 build "the beast" as he calls it, and he was nice enough to let me use it in the shootout - amazing light. But, until we put the FM 2.5" head on it, it was nothing but pure flood. I couldn't believe the difference that huge reflector made. I would say it's _almost_ a requirement for the 623. The 3" would even be more of an improvement, but the 2.5" is a "beast" in itself. Here it is compared to the DBS reflector:



What is the cost of building this beast? As far as I understand it consists of some original Mag parts and some custom built, right?


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## DM51 (Feb 1, 2010)

Wow - I must have been away when this thread was started. Thanks to Swagg for bumping it yesterday, otherwise I might not have seen it.

*SUPERB* shootout, RichS! Very useful comparison shots indeed!


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## RichS (Feb 1, 2010)

DM51 said:


> Wow - I must have been away when this thread was started. Thanks to Swagg for bumping it yesterday, otherwise I might not have seen it.
> 
> *SUPERB* shootout, RichS! Very useful comparison shots indeed!


Thanks much DM51. I learned a lot of useful techniques from your excellent beamshot threads that I was able to employ in this one. I can now truly appreciate all the work that goes into these comparison shootouts...



Yavox said:


> What is the cost of building this beast? As far as I understand it consists of some original Mag parts and some custom built, right?


 


It's become a pretty standard Mag623 build due to the ease of use of the IMR 26500 batteries. It's about $270 total for the build you see above. Below is a part list w/ prices and where you can purchase. The nice thing about this build is that it can easily be converted to a Mag458 build with one additional battery. My friend converted his light using a MagD tube extension from Fivemega. Now he can easily go back and forth between the Mag623 and Mag458.

*3D Maglite* ($20)
*4 x AW IMR 26500 batteries* ($60): http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?p=2272984
*Osram 64623 bulb* ($4): http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewItem/bcrw/itmid/132/oc/64623%20HLX/item.html
*Fivemega 2.5" Throwmaster :devil: *($105): https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/232353
*Kiu high-temp socket kit *-or- *AW soft-start D driver* (recommended)
*Kui high temp socket kit* ($12): https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/171607
*AW Soft-Start MagD driver* ($75): https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/177316

*PVC tubing* to fill in gap in battery tube ($3): Lowes
*TOTAL COST:* $270


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## Yavox (Feb 2, 2010)

RichS said:


> It's become a pretty standard Mag623 build due to the ease of use of the IMR 26500 batteries. It's about $270 total for the build you see above. Below is a part list w/ prices and where you can purchase. The nice thing about this build is that it can easily be converted to a Mag458 build with one additional battery. My friend converted his light using a MagD tube extension from Fivemega. Now he can easily go back and forth between the Mag623 and Mag458.



Thanks for the answer - it looks much more "real" and achievable to built when there is a link provided to every piece of the light, just like you did it. 

I don't know yet what this Mag458 is (and what all those 623 or 458s stand for), but if there is something _more_ than Mag623 people would convert this light into, the whole thing looks even more interesting.


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## Dioni (Feb 2, 2010)

Thanks for this nice "cake recipe" Rich! :devil:


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## RichS (Feb 2, 2010)

Yavox said:


> Thanks for the answer - it looks much more "real" and achievable to built when there is a link provided to every piece of the light, just like you did it.
> 
> I don't know yet what this Mag458 is (and what all those 623 or 458s stand for), but if there is something _more_ than Mag623 people would convert this light into, the whole thing looks even more interesting.


You're welcome. The numbers at the end of the Mag are simply an abbreviation of the bulb being used. For example, a Mag623 uses a 100W Osram 64*623* bulb, thus the nickname Mag623. Some other common mag mods are:

Mag458 - uses a 90W Osram 64458 bulb
Mag85 - uses a 30W Welch Allyn 1185 bulb
Mag61 - uses a 30W Philips 5761 bulb
Check out these threads for lots more info on Mag mods you can build:

Lux Luthor's Most Powerful Mag Mods
Lux Luthor's Destructive Incan Bulb Tests (shows potential output/voltage required, etc.)


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## EV_007 (Feb 2, 2010)

Nice work. I like these types of posts. Appreciate the effort put into this.


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## LuxLuthor (Feb 2, 2010)

DM51 said:


> Wow - I must have been away when this thread was started. Thanks to Swagg for bumping it yesterday, otherwise I might not have seen it.
> 
> *SUPERB* shootout, RichS! Very useful comparison shots indeed!



+1 How the hell did I miss this thread?

Excellent, Excellent, Excellent thread! You got the lights, organization, documentation, distances, great target, gifs, etc. I know how long it takes to do this right. Very useful information, and again really great thread, Rich! You did it all!!! :bow: :thumbsup:


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## Yavox (Feb 3, 2010)

RichS said:


> It's become a pretty standard Mag623 build due to the ease of use of the IMR 26500 batteries. It's about $270 total for the build you see above.



What kind of runtime does this insane red anodized thing have? I have checked the thread about AW soft-start driver that is listed above and it looks that it is not regulated, right? Is there any chance to get a regulated driver and if so, what runtime would be expected then?


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## Dioni (Feb 3, 2010)

I cant wait for the medium range shootout...


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## RichS (Feb 3, 2010)

LuxLuthor said:


> +1 How the hell did I miss this thread?
> 
> Excellent, Excellent, Excellent thread! You got the lights, organization, documentation, distances, great target, gifs, etc. I know how long it takes to do this right. Very useful information, and again really great thread, Rich! You did it all!!! :bow: :thumbsup:


Thanks Lux.  I had to do _something_ to earn a mention in the Saint Incans Day peom. (Still love the shirt BTW). Wow, I even got a bowdown emoticon from the incan master himself! Now _that_ is cool..





Yavox said:


> What kind of runtime does this insane red anodized thing have? I have checked the thread about AW soft-start driver that is listed above and it looks that it is not regulated, right? Is there any chance to get a regulated driver and if so, what runtime would be expected then?


 

DM51 (I believe) gave a handy formula to figure out actual runtime if you know what the battery capacity and bulb current draw is. It factors in the fact that you cannot fully deplete the batteries.

*RUNTIME* = *Battery Capacity* divided by *Bulb Current Draw* x* 48* (to give you usable minutes)
In this case, I'm using AW's IMR 26500 cells at 2300 mAH & Osram 64623 at 10.3A draw at 15.5V (see Lux Luthor's Destructive Incan Bulb tests for this info..)

2.3 Amp Hours / 10.3 Amp draw x 48 = *11 minutes runtime*

You are correct, the AW driver has a soft start to increase bulb life and reduce the risk of flashing, and uses PWM to provide 3 levels. It is not regulated. You can get a programable regulated driver here, but I'm not sure what the change in runtime will be. My hunch is that it may be shorter due to the regulation keeping the lamp at full brightness throughout the duration of the run.





Dioni said:


> I cant wait for the medium range shootout...


 
I'm actually pretty excited to do this myself. I have quite a few different drop-in options that I haven't had a chance to get a good comparison of yet. I'm curious to see them side by side in real life use (outdoors). I'd like to have a little green foliage along with the browns as a backdrop, so I'm thinking this may have to wait until Spring. (the lack of frigid temperatures won't hurt either...)


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## johnnyk (Feb 4, 2010)

Spring is just around the corner....

Any idea on when you'll do the medium range tests?

I sent you a pm.

John


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## RichS (Feb 5, 2010)

johnnyk said:


> Spring is just around the corner....
> 
> Any idea on when you'll do the medium range tests?
> 
> ...


PM replied. Unfortunately it will be a couple of months before we start to see any green in Ohio...I want to have a decent backdrop of foliage for the beamshots..just shades of brown right now...:sigh:


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## woodrow (Feb 8, 2010)

What Incredible Beamshots! Thanks very much for your review. Also for putting a "high" power led in for comparrison. I think the next "are incans dead?" question thread should be directed here. As a led guy, this thread humbled me and also gave me an education of what led hotwires are all about. Thanks again!


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## RichS (Feb 8, 2010)

woodrow said:


> What Incredible Beamshots! Thanks very much for your review. Also for putting a "high" power led in for comparison. I think the next "are incans dead?" question thread should be directed here. As a led guy, this thread humbled me and also gave me an education of what led hotwires are all about. Thanks again!


Very nice of you to say woodrow. I'm glad I could return the favor - your excellent review threads w/ beamshots were a big part of my education when I first joined the forum in 2007. I started out as a complete LED guy, and still have a couple of the original LED greats - the P3D RB100 and DBS.  I really enjoyed reading each of your review threads, featuring the cutting edge lights when I first came on board in 2007, such as the Tiable A8SE, Olight T20, etc.. oh the good old days when I first discovered CPF and subsequently, my new favorite hobby..

BTW - unfortunately it looks like the images on many of your threads no longer work. What's up with that?


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## Swagg (Feb 17, 2010)

Hey RichS, will you be including any beam shots with FM's CL1909?


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## RichS (Feb 17, 2010)

Swagg said:


> Hey RichS, will you be including any beam shots with FM's CL1909?


Yep - I'm anxious to do a good side by side comparison with my Mag85. I added this to the "coming soon" list along with the Mag458. When I do the medium range shootout in the Spring, I'll probably do another full shootout with the long range lights to make it a clear comparison, adding in the CL1909 and some others.


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## e-ville (Feb 18, 2010)

awesome comparison, i cant wait to see the p60's! exactly what im trying to decide on right now!!


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Feb 18, 2010)

Bump this superb thread!

Thank you, RichS.

Cheers


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## flashfiend (Feb 18, 2010)

woodrow said:


> What Incredible Beamshots! Thanks very much for your review. Also for putting a "high" power led in for comparrison. I think the next "are incans dead?" question thread should be directed here. As a led guy, this thread humbled me and also gave me an education of what led hotwires are all about. Thanks again!



+1 to all of above and hen some. I am an LED fanboy myself but playing around with my measly P60 lamp has me wanting to get into incans. I'm really surprised by the good combo of throw and spill.


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## Joe_torch (Apr 2, 2010)

Excelent beamshots comparison!:twothumbs
Expecting your next shootout!

Joe


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