# Damaged eyes?



## stephenmadpotato

Hi,
I own what claimed to be a 240mw laser, which is actually 31mw. Anyways, earlier today I was cleaning the lens on the laser when I went to take a look at it. I accidently pressed the button about 6" away from my right eye. It went completely blind for about 10 seconds, and then seemed fine. So I continued to clean it. I realized that I have a tiny spot now where ever I look. When my eyes slide out of focus it disapears. However when I try to look at something in detail there is a gray spot. Could I have damaged my eye permanantly with only a 31mw laser oo:?


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## teaken

I would recommend removing the batteries next time you're cleaning it. I really hope you haven't done permanent damage, I've heard of people doing the same thing and the spots lasted for up to a few days in some cases.


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## luvlasers

Sorry to hear. Afraid you'll get mainly bad news from this thread.

31mW by itself is enough to cause permanent damage. Power levels as low as 10mW can cause serious damage. This would be compounded by the IR light that you'd get from a 240mW ebay laser.

A bit late given the damage has already been done but i'd see an optometrist.


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## BT132435

oh man... that sucks...


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## FloggedSynapse

D'oh!

The question is how close to the center of vision (macula) did you hit? Yes a laser at that power level can do serious and permanent damage to your retina. Even at 30mW.. however it's quite possible the lasers output varies considerably so you may have blasted your eye with a lot more that 30mW, point blank.
:duh2:

Good luck

PS If you did blast your macula that's very bad news.

See an eye doctor asap, especially if you have vision problems!

PPS Welcome to the tatoo'd retina club


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## ajohnson

You didn't say the color/frequency of your laser. If its a greenie or other DPSS then you might have one of the "ebay specials" that doesn't have an IR filter and may have 30mw of green but much much more infrared output. I'm only saying this because you say it only appears to be in that range.

If that's the case then you could have easily blasted yourself with a high mw of light and you should go get checked out.

Sorry to say so


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## The_LED_Museum

If this is the "240mW" laser that's been advertised on Ebay as of late, the infrared content is surprisingly low - I have one of these and determined this via spectroscopy.


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## TITAN1833

stephenmadpotato, look into the mirror do you see this "I HAVE LEARNED MY LESSON".and now write 1000 lines "TAKE BATTERIES OUT WHEN CLEANING MY LASER".hope you are ok.


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## BT132435

think you got the wrong person


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## luigi

You should go get your eye checked so anything we write here is completely irrelevant.

I'll keep my fingers crossed it's just a spot that will go away in a few days.

Luigi


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## comozo

That's why FDA approved class 3b lasers have a delayed on switch and why laser pointers are only 5mw so's you don't damage your eyes accidentally.


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## picrthis

Well atleast you weren't looking down the barrel of a loaded .45 gun while cleaning it and pulled the trigger. Rule # 1 ALWAYS make it safe before doing an cleaning/maintenance. Guns, Knives, Lasers, power tools, etc. If that was a gun you could have lost your life. Sorry to hear about it, but you must act safely to avoid injury. I hope as time goes by, your sight goes back to normal.


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## stephenmadpotato

Yeah, this REALLY sucks. Its day 2 and its gotten a "little" better. It was quite stupid that this happened in the first place. If its still here the day after tomorrow I'll get it looked at., even though theres not much they can do. BTW the wave length is 532nm which means yes it was a green. I actually dont think this will affect me in sunlight, when I was outside this morning I didn't notice it. It seems like it may only be in lit rooms. Let this be a warning to all of you, DO NOT SHINE LASERS IN PEOPLES EYES UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHAT SO EVER!. If this apears permenant then I will take it apart and check for an IR filter, lets hope I dont have to  But if so, I'm going to report this to ebay and maybe then they will stop people from selling people cheap uninfrared-filtered lasers.


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## TITAN1833

BT132435 said:


> think you got the wrong person


sorry, "my bad" ill get my eyes tested.edited my post corrected now.


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## 2xTrinity

stephenmadpotato said:


> Yeah, this REALLY sucks. Its day 2 and its gotten a "little" better. It was quite stupid that this happened in the first place. If its still here the day after tomorrow I'll get it looked at., even though theres not much they can do. BTW the wave length is 532nm which means yes it was a green. I actually dont think this will affect me in sunlight, when I was outside this morning I didn't notice it. It seems like it may only be in lit rooms. Let this be a warning to all of you, DO NOT SHINE LASERS IN PEOPLES EYES UNLESS YOU HATE THEM. If this apears permenant then I will take it apart and check for an IR filter, lets hope I dont have to  But if so, I'm going to report this to ebay and maybe then they will stop people from selling people cheap uninfrared-filtered lasers.


IR is not going to be as much of a problem as green, in any case, because it spreads out quickly like a flashlight beam -- even at close range, the total amount of IR that you would intercept would be negligible compared to the green. The problem with IR is that it is invisible, and refracts at a different rate than green -- that means if you are using the laser around glass, or something that unintentionally behaves like a lens at close range, the IR could be hitting your eye for a long stretch of time without you ever realizing it, or reacting to it. That is where the potential danger lies, but the potential for damage to be done by the green itself, even in a laser with perfect filtering, is much higher in any case. I would personally be more worried about a 35mW green laser with a perfect IR filter, than a 5 or 10mW laser with crappy filtering. For one thing it focuses a lot sharper on the retina, than IR light, and more significantly it is more collimated, so if you get hit at all, you get the entire beam.


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## not2bright

stephenmadpotato said:


> ***POST EDITED***



I think you should rethink your post.

Lasers should not be pointed at anyone regardless of your fondness for them.


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## The_LED_Museum

I totally agree with you.
The post really needs to be edited; if *stephanmadpotato* does not do it, then I will.


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## stephenmadpotato

haha, i was just kidding. I changed the post right now :twothumbs.


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## The_LED_Museum

Thank you; much better!!! :thumbsup: :twothumbs :thumbsup:


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## Daedal

Really sorry to hear about this, and hope your eye gets better soon.

GL;
DDL

P.S. : The quotes still show the edited post...


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## stephenmadpotato

Yeah I dont think this is leaving. I think im gonna see a little dot in the center of everything for the rest of my life. Please folks, be careful with these lasers they're very dangerous.


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## BT132435

I can't believe you're not crazy angry at this... or even freaking out. If that happened to me i'd be so pissed off.


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## knot

BT132435 said:


> I can't believe you're not crazy angry at this... or even freaking out. If that happened to me i'd be so pissed off.



What good will it do to react with emotions that may only compound the problem? What's done is done so the best step to take is to seek medical attention - not to freak out over it.


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## Confederate

I'm afraid I have to add my voice with the others in advising you to have it checked out. It can provide peace of mind once your eye's examined.

One problem with IR is that it can damage your eye in such a way that you don't get the full impact at once. The damage could be a clean tear that later begins to deteriorate around the edges. As this deterioration continues, the edges become rougher and the damage more pronounced.

An opthomolgist can examine your eye for any damage that may have occurred and tell you what to expect later. Or he could tell you that you lucked out and that little or no damage occurred.

Please get it checked out and report back here. There are so many variables, such as angle and intensity, that it's hard to tell what may have happened.


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## k00zk0

I was just about to make a post concerning this issue when I saw this in the thread list.

I have purchased a "200mW" green laser from Dealextreme, and this has happened to me. I will not go into details, the point is, 5 or 6 inches away from my eye, directly into the macula, 0.5 sec or so exposure. It's been 3 days now, and It seems to have gotten very slightly better, but I'm still missing vision in the very center of my right eye. I am so {_censored_} scared right now, you don't even know it. It's even worse for me as I'm only 16 and I already have a very bad left eye. I can't get it off of my mind. I cannot believe that for the rest of my life I will have a little dot in the center of my vision. I can read computer text but I need to take two passes at things occasionally. I don't know where I can find an optometrist to see asap, I'll have to check with someone as I don't want to tell my parents.

Is there anything that can be done? Like stimulating the area with flashes of light to make it better? I am hoping so much that this spot will go away... I feel for this thread starter right now. I am NEVER playing with lasers again.


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## TOOCOOL

k00zk0 said:


> I have purchased a "200mW" green laser from Dealextreme, and this has happened to me. I will not go into details, the point is, 5 or 6 inches away from my eye, directly into the macula, 0.5 sec or so exposure. It's been 3 days now, and It seems to have gotten very slightly better, but I'm still missing vision in the very center of my right eye. I am so f*&^%$g scared right now, you don't even know it. It's even worse for me as I'm only 16 and I already have a very bad left eye. I can't get it off of my mind. I cannot believe that for the rest of my life I will have a little dot in the center of my vision. I can read computer text but I need to take two passes at things occasionally. I don't know where I can find an optometrist to see asap, I'll have to check with someone as I don't want to tell my parents.
> 
> Is there anything that can be done? Like stimulating the area with flashes of light to make it better? I am hoping so much that this spot will go away... I feel for this thread starter right now. I am NEVER playing with lasers again.



Let your your parents help immediately. 
Edit the bad language


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## Gazoo

k00zk0,
Definitely get to an eye doctor. They may not have anything that can cure your eye instantly, but I read that they can give you vitamins that will promote healing. 

I read somewhere else about someone making the same mistake, and his vision was fine after a few months. It really depends on how bad you damaged your retina. Go see an eye doctor!


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## nuggett

double post


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## nuggett

This thread greatly saddens me. I had considered buying a laser for fun, then thought better not with 2 young girls around. Too easy have an accident.

BB guns are in the same category. They are not given the respect they deserve.
My eye doctor friend has remove 25 eyeballs from bb gun injuries.

An idiot "friend" fired a bb which hit 1" below my eye many years ago. Lucked out.

I truely wish you both a full recovery.
Today 01:31 AM


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## Heruursciences

That reminds me of when some numbnut decided to blast me w/ 40W q-switched green laserscope during a laser light show setup. Thank goodness I was about 100 feet away and the beam wasn't collimated that well. It caused something similar to what you'r going through that lasted about 2 weeks. Needless to say i quit that job.

Anyway, You should take about 2000mg of vitamin C and 250-500IU of vitamin E for a week, lutien suplements, as well as 100% rda of vitamin A or bata caratine. This will help lessen the effects of secondary free radical oxidatitve stress in the injured area. If there is perminent damage and it's small enough, eventually, your eye will ignore the damaged portion and fill in the gap with a light blurry spot matching the color of the surrounding.

Considder yourself very lucky that you didn't fry your eyball out completerly, and next time TAKE THE BATTERIES OUT!


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## Kiessling

You absolutely need to see an ophtalmologist NOW. That is an eye doctor, not an ophtometrist. Talk to your parents. We all do make mistakes. Don't prolong yours and possibly make it worse.
bernhard


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## jhosaki

Something that you all need to be aware of about eye damage: If you have had an accident with a laser and a few days later it seems that your eye is "better" YOU STILL SHOULD SEE A MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL. The reason is this: If you have a small injury to your retina, even if it does not heal, over time your brain will start to ignore the data sent to it from the damaged section of your eye and compentate by mixing the signals from your other eye and filling in the missing segment to create a "whole" image. This is NOT an indication that you have healed. Your brain is just accomodating for the fact that you now have a blind spot in your retina, and rather than "bother" you with a constant dark spot in your perception, it overwrites the area and fills in the gaps. Your brain is very adaptive, but you still need to have your retina imaged to see if there is actual damage.


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## k00zk0

I'm not sure exaxtly what kind of doctor I'm seeing tomorrow, but they say they can look at my retina and tell me what to do. I'll update asap and say what they have said

Yeah, I do realise its my brain compensating for the lack of vision. Thats why I said it "seems" to be getting better :X


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## jhosaki

Honestly, I hope that you're okay in the end.

This is why the FDA requires high powered lasers to have a 3-second delay, key switch, aperture shutter, etc. To anybody who doesn't like the safety features, just think that a delay or key switch could have saved this poor guy a trip to the doctor. Many people buy the cheap pointers with no safety features for the "convenience", but what's convenient about a retinal injury?


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## LuxLuthor

These stories also make me feel sad because these accidents can be with you the rest of your life. Even if you see an O.D. Optometrist they can still recognize retinal damage....but will likely refer you to a retinal M.D. Opthalmologist. Good Luck!


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## stephenmadpotato

holy crap k00k we are in the EXACT same predicament. I am 16 years old, i have a lazy left eye already and i didnt tell my parents... scary stuff man, except yours is much worse man, my hat is off to you.


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## stephenmadpotato

Also, please dont close this thread admins. Its really good that people read this before buying a laser.


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## Gazoo

stephenmadpotato said:


> Also, please dont close this thread admins. Its really good that people read this before buying a laser.



I don't believe the mods have any intention of closing the thread, in fact the topic has been pinned which I think is an excellent idea.

I do hope that you and k00zk0 will be OK and your eyes will eventually heal, and I do appreciate both of you sharing. Thank you


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## k00zk0

Wow. Do you by any chance also have like a +7 or so prescription and astigmatism? Live in Toronto too?

My dot isnt too bad. I'm using a standard 1280x800 laptop lcd screen but only using it about 1.3 feet or so from my face. I can read text fine, but thats cause I know the words I'm reading. If I'm trying to specifically look at the spelling of some word, I can't see it (immediately, looking for a bit my peripheral vision sees the letters as I look around the word). Even writing this I keep hitting ; instead of ' and finding it almost hard to notice it. It actually does seem to be getting very slightly better, but again that could be cause of me getting used to it. I was horrable before, right when it happened I had a jagged dark spot shaped like a diagonal oval, now it seems I'm actually seeing through it veeeery slightly. Oh well, I'll see an op*ologist tomorrow and see what happens. If I get referred to someone higher I won't go as either way there is nothing I can do about it (unless I'm told they can actually help). I popped mad vitamins today, some A, B12, ate some citrus cause I don't have C, cod fish oil, some herbal suppliments, ugh. I feel bad but not bad at the same time as I know I can't do anything about it.

I hope this doesn't happen to anyone.. But I'm sure it does all the time. Stephen, has it actually gotten any better? Has it vanished slightly and how long has it been? I'm almost hoping we by any little chance live a block away from eachother. hehe.


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## stephenmadpotato

Haha, naw, I live in MA. It has improved alot, I can see what I'm focusing on, I think i damaged RIGHT below the center of vision. I can read words fine, just not the ones below it. I am truly amazed at the adaptations my body has made to rectify this problem. Thank god I already passed the eye exam for my licence :twothumbs. You can test how you're doing very easily. Cover your good eye and see how well you can read etc. There is a chance it could be improving but it unfortunately will never be the same again.


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## Quazar

I have been working professionally with lasers for almost 10 years. Back then, there were no DPSS lasers aroud, just big heavy argons and kryptons. A laser typically weighed 60 lbs, needed a 100lb 3 phase power supply and generated a whole load of heat. They were also fragile and didnt like being moved around much. After all, most were designed to be used in laboratory conditions. OPerating one on top of a scaffold tower in a club full of smoke and haze was never what they were intended to do.

Having spent the equivalent of $5000 on your new toy, you kind of looked after it, the 400 volts @30 amps electricity supply and 2 gallons of water a minute were never a good combination!! Therefore utmost respect, almost to the level of paranoia was given to laser equipment. Admittedly, we used to do the cigarette lighting trick (at arms length), but that was about it.

Unfortunately, with the advent of cheap mass produced DPSS lasers that are available for the cost of a decent torch, much of the respect for what is essentially a piece of industrial equipment has been lost. Nowadays, kids can buy lasers with the money they make for doing a paper round for a few weeks. The laser has become little more than a toy and as such, everyone is "showing off" their latest acquisition without regard for the consequences.

A friend of mine who is also a professional laserist, has a severe eye injury caused by a laser. After sending a 2W argon laser off for regassing, he was checking it over before firing it up. With ion lasers, you need the cathode to warm up for a few seconds before arcing. After regassing, it is essential to have the cathode running for a while longer before the first strike is attempted. My friend was (carelessly) looking into the back of the tube to check the cathode was glowing nicely, when the tube ignited. Unknown to him, the tube had been refitted the wrong way round and he got a 2W argon beam into the eye from about 4" away. This accident happened over 6 years ago and to this day he still has a large black spot in his vision.

Please treat lasers with the utmost respect, they are not toys by any means. Misuse them and they will bite back, hard. You dont get a second chance, its too late. Be warned, play safe.


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## k00zk0

Very well written. ^

So I saw an optometrist (EDIT: I think just an optician, but he knew his stuff) and he looked at my retina using some sortof scope and said that he sees no damage. He said he sees the blood vessels, etc and it looks healthy. I still see a little bit of missing vision though. He made an appointment with an opthamologist for me soon and I'll see what happens then.

On a side note, the optometrist had decent english, but didn't know what a laser module was. I told him it was about 170mw of infrared and he was like "so this was a toy of some sort?" I had to explain to him that I am an electronics enthousiast but to avoid embarrasment I didn't tell him it was a laser pointer but a high quality professional one. 

Well, he said he normally sees lesions on the retina when it's burns but there was nothing this time. I just hope this goes away.


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## TorchBoy

k00zk0 said:


> He made an appointment with an opthamologist for me soon and I'll see what happens then.
> 
> On a side note, the optometrist had decent english, but didn't know what a laser module was.


That's a worry. I hope your opthalmologist knows what a laser module is. He/she will hopefully know the kind of damage to look for so will be better able to explain what's happening to your retina. Hang in there.


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## Gazoo

Hello k00zk0,
Thanks for the update. I too find it very interesting the optometrist didn't know what a laser module is. I am certain your ophthalmologist will know or at least have an understanding of how a laser can damage an eye. Please keep us updated. Glad to know it is getting better.


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## stephenmadpotato

Hi all.
The spot i have I noticed has turned translucent purple any idea what this means?


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## chuck

So, it's gone from being completely black (basically dead) to seeing at least some color?

I'd say it's in the process of healing. Either that, or your brain is rewiring itself slightly, to correct for the optical error. Either way, it sounds like a good sign.

Did you ever go see an eye doctor? What did he say?

-- Chuck Knight


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## Gazoo

stephenmadpotato said:


> Hi all.
> The spot i have I noticed has turned translucent purple any idea what this means?



Shortly after it happened you reported seeing a gray spot. If you are now seeing purple and you can see through the purple, I would think it is a good sign. You should still see an eye doctor if you haven't.


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## siggis

Hi stephenmadpotato,

please edit you sig. The "green" radiation is as bad as the IR and since it is
the "primary" frequency it's worse because it has more power and is better
focused. To be on the safe side one has to wear goggles blocking out 532nm AND 1064nm.
Telling people to wear "IR BLOCKING GOGGLES" doesn't help.

Actually one should wear safety glasses for everything above 1mW. A close
shot with 5mW can give you permanent damage. 

Apart from that I think you got lucky, the purple spot is a good sign, could be
that the red+blue part of your vision is recovering, green might come later
since it got most of the energy, a specialist can tell you what's going on
exactly.

Good Luck, Siggi.


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## stephenmadpotato

siggis said:


> Actually one should wear safety glasses for everything above 1mW. A close shot with 5mW can give you permanent damage.


 
I agree with everything else you stated. However the FDA says that it takes about 10-60 seconds of exposure to do damage retinal damage. The FDA is uptight as it is about these lasers




so I doubt they would be incorrect.


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## siggis

Hi,



stephenmadpotato said:


> I agree with everything else you stated. However the FDA says that it takes about 10-60 seconds of exposure to do damage retinal damage. The FDA is uptight as it is about these lasers
> 
> 
> 
> so I doubt they would be incorrect.



the FDA is not everything. Here in Germany you have to take security measures when operating anything above 1mW. Above 5mW it get's quite strict. It's correct that it is "unlikely" to cause permanent damage with 5mW. Especially since those normal lasers are not that well collimated and getting hit from a few meters distance will give you only temporary problems. But if you do have a 5mW greenie, which put's out actuall 5mW with a well collimated beam and you look right into the thing from a few inches distance you will get a nice little black spot if you don't happen to close you eye quick enough. It might go away after a few weeks/months, might not, depends on the person. There are some people which have problems looking at the dot of a 30mW green laser on the wall, it actually "hurts" their eyes. I case you happen to shine you laser into the spyglass from someone 100m away at night he will have a big problem.

So this is likely the reason why the FDA considers 5mW as "safe". I can do damage under certain circumstances, it will not do damage under most circumstances. Getting damaged by 1mW will be hard and would require intentionally looking into the beam for extended periods of time even using optical instruments.

I any case, a laser is a laser. And with "cheap" laser pointer you have to be especially carefull, specs are not guaranteed. I've been doing stuff with lasers since years and I did get burned by my own stupidity a few times. Luckily only by the HV from the power-supplies and not by the beams.

I personally consider all those cheap green laser-pointers as dangerous. I'm not going to say they should be forbidden, knifes are as dangerous and freely available. BUT one has to treat them with care and respect.

Do yourself a favor and think about this a bit. The reason why this accident happened was disrespect. Saying 5mW is safe is still disrespect. The right approach IMHO is to pay respect to things. Keep playing with lasers but be aware every moment that every one of them can bite you, even the smallest one and you will stay out of trouble.

We've been looking right into 100mW Argon lasers with safety goggles to adjust them. But we made sure to be two people. Made sure that the goggles are working and in place and so on.

Enjoy playing with lasers and don't take anything for granted. The FDA have some so funny ideas about some stuff as have the respective Organisations here in Germany. One thing is legal here the other there, doesn't really tell anything about the dangers of it.

Bye, Siggi.


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## Lew Fong

I agree with the post from stephenmadpotato about the time required for damage to occur, per the FDA. The Army just recently completed a study of the usefulness of lasers for combat use, and divided the devices into two categories: "Blinding" lasers, and "Dazzling" lasers. In short, their conclusion is that a laser is considered "dazzling" if it's power output is less than *500* mW.

Their conclusions were based upon data returned from the field in actual combat situations where Coalition forces were using medium to high powered DPSS laser systems mounted on their infantry weapons. The study was prompted by concerns that lasers now in the field might violate the Geneva Conventions outlawing weapons designed to blind an enemy.

The data pertinent to this discussion is that the human blink response, together with other actions taken by the enemy to avoid direct laser exposure to the eyes such as reflexively moving one's head, etc., made _permanent_ eye injury unlikely at any power less than 500 mW @ 532 nm. So the Army classifies those devices as "dazzling" weapons. For a weapon to be considered "blinding" the Army sez it must be at least 500 mW. This is the minimum power level at normal CQB ranges (< 200 yards) that even begins to deliver enough energy to the eye in the 200 milliseconds before the victim blinks or moves to cause permanent damage. Of course, the Army has a vested interest in setting the "blinding" power threshold as high as possible, because it allows them to deploy the weapons legally. But they also are interested in finding the threshold from the standpoint of combat effectiveness...in other words, how high does the power need to be to be useful as a blinding weapon, if need be? This point was the secondary focus of the study, and the Army concluded that <500 mW lasers were essentially useless as blinding weapons under normal circumstances.

The fact is that the mechanism of destruction of macular tissue by laser light is the same as that for popping a balloon: Sufficient energy must be concentrated for a length of time to produce enough heat to cause burning. I find it highly unlikely that anyone could sustain even mild permanent visual impairment with only a few hundred milliseconds of exposure at the 35 mW level with a beam spot approaching 1 mm in diameter. There is simply not enough energy on target long enough to cause permanent damage. That is not to imply any relaxation of the respect one must have for any laser. But the continuing claims made by many of "instantaneous" and "permanent" eye damage at power levels below _*50 mW*_ is simply absurd, and factually inaccurate. One would need to stare into a 50 mW beam at the same spot for a few seconds to do any permanent damage. It is nearly impossible for a person to do so, because of the automatic, reflexive response to bright light. Even the FDA recognizes the general safety of lasers of less than 50 mW in power. _There_ _has never been a case of permanent eye injury reported in the US with a laser of less than 50 mW output power. _Ever.

What may have happened here could be much simpler: All of us have "floaters" in the eye....spots that swim around. We ignore them usually. If you look for them, you can probably find one. Now, if you accidentally flashed yourself and were prone to be a bit paranoid, you might identify one of these floaters as a laser eye injury, especially if the floater happened to lie under the impact zone. Then, as the initial desensitization or "flash blindness" slowly dissipated, the floater could be interpreted by the victim as a vestigial permanent injury. Maybe that's why the doctor couldn't see anything wrong. Even a pinhole in the retina should not have gone undetected during the examination. 

Please keep us updated. I hope by now your situation has improved. Best of luck to you,

Lew


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## TorchBoy

Lew Fong said:


> The study was prompted by concerns that lasers now in the field might violate the Geneva Conventions outlawing weapons designed to blind an enemy.


Yes, the US Army has a vested interest in not wanting to appear to break international law (not that they actually care much for international law) so I wouldn't place a huge amount of faith or weight in their study.

My own red laser pointer was tested at 4mW output with a fresh battery. From the size of its dot I worked out that it's about the same intensity as sunlight over an area about the size of a pupil. (Of course, in dim light the pupil opens, making it more likely that the full laser beam width will enter the eye.) In my reckoning that means that >5mW is not safe for anything more than a fleeting glance. No, it won't be instantaneous, but serious and permanent *damage* can and will be done at levels much less than the US Army's acknowledged unsafe "blindness" level.

I'm also not convinced that retinas need to be burned to cause permanent damage. Retinas are a whole lot more complex than most people realise. There are more ways to hurt them than frying them.


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## stephenmadpotato

Hi,
Thank you all for your input, it is really good to hear everyones point of view. I know what a "floater" is and I know that I am not seeing one. My problem is a permenant (so far) translucent light purple spot in my eye. There has been many cases of eye damage. I enourage all of you to go to this website http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2005-rst/2800.html I just found and it conquers with my 60 second exposure-damage ratio. I also encourage you to go to this website: http://www.drgreene.org/body.cfm?id=21&action=detail&ref=607 and read some of the facts. That website states it could take 10 seconds. I do believe, with the information provided, we could all argue this matter for eternity as this subject is so contradictory.:thinking: 
Regards,
Stephen


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## insaned

stephenmadpotato said:


> Hi,
> Thank you all for your input, it is really good to hear everyones point of view. I know what a "floater" is and I know that I am not seeing one. My problem is a permenant (so far) translucent light purple spot in my eye. There has been many cases of eye damage. I enourage all of you to go to this website http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2005-rst/2800.html I just found and it conquers with my 60 second exposure-damage ratio. I also encourage you to go to this website: http://www.drgreene.org/body.cfm?id=21&action=detail&ref=607 and read some of the facts. That website states it could take 10 seconds. I do believe, with the information provided, we could all argue this matter for eternity as this subject is so contradictory.:thinking:
> Regards,
> Stephen


 
You should consider one thing before relying in any "paper" experience. Your own!
Science is contantly changing, so you must not take it written in the paper as it is! You have your own experience, you looked the laser at a few seconds, and something happened! May not be serious, but something it was! And if I were you, definitly, would not want again any uncautious beam in the retina cells!

Also be safe and wear decent protection glasses.

ps- also military engennering is design to reach specific demands! In analogy, a .22LR ammo based pistol used for rim firing, in the point of view of the army is completelly useless in any way. Altough with this caliber, a burgler can break into a familly house and if something goes wrong, kill everyone in it. (less likelly than obviously a 9mm, but the "less likelly" also implies that it is likelly to happen, even in low %. So for the safe side, you need to bee OFF the %)

So, along in your life, always take a conscious view with opinions, even scientific ones, a try to see beyond paper, because they will not certainlly cover everything, because they had a purpose or intent when written that might not match yours!


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## Lew Fong

Excellent links, stephenmadpotato! Thank you!


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## k00zk0

Alright. I saw an opthamologist, and he looked at the spot and told me that that's what it looks like when people stare at the sun. He saw a redish burn, but very small. He told me its healing (I can see that it is too) but it will leave a small spot. My other eye and brain will compensate..

He gave me 5 sample packs of Vitalux multivitamin, used for age-related macular degeneration, told to take 2 per day:

Each tablet contains:
Beta-Carotene: 12,500 IU (7.5mg)
Vit C: 250 mg
Vit E: 200 IU
Zinc (Gluconate): 40mg
Copper (HVP chelate): 1mg

And, he gave me these drops called Maxidex:

Dexamethasone 0.1%

He told me those may help with the healing.

I hope that info can help someone who maybe cant see a doctor but can get those medications..


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## Kiessling

Taking medications without seeing a doctor and getting a proper diagnosis as well as therapy is never a good idea.


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## chuck

One of the pills is a vitamin -- probably pretty much harmless, regardless of whether anything is wrong. It's likely impossible to go wrong with this.

The actual medicated drops, however, should definitely be used under the supervision of a doctor -- medicines are not to be fooled around with.

I'm very happy to hear that you eye is getting better...thrilled, in fact! Have a wonderful 4th of July, and CONGRATULATIONS!

-- Chuck Knight


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## k00zk0

I'm in Canada 

Stephenmadpotato, how's your eye going?

Yes, the first pill is a multivitamin and it's available in more drug stores I believe. 

EDITED: Read following posts and do not use the drops unless directed by a doctor.


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## jefft

k00zk0 said:


> And, he gave me these drops called Maxidex:
> 
> Dexamethasone 0.1%
> 
> He told me those may help with the healing.
> 
> I hope that info can help someone who maybe cant see a doctor but can get those medications..





k00zk0 said:


> As for the drops, they are just an anti-inflammatory and they aren't even to be used for anything related to the macula.. they're for the inside of the eyelids, but the doc said that it may work its way back there and help. I would think that signifies that they're pretty damn safe to use when he gives them without a reason. On the dropper it says you can drop as fast as you want it. 2 drops every 30 minutes, or more if inflammation gets worse. I would think it's pretty safe. It's available without prescription too methinks.



Your eye drops are _steroids_, not simple anti-inflammatory drops. Corticosteroid eye drops _have_ to be used with appropriate caution and are not available without a prescription. Improper use can be associated with cataracts and glaucoma and God forbid, you have a secondary corneal infection while using the drops. Say goodbye to your vision. That little fuzzy spot would be welcome in that case. Very dangerous to make medical assumptions and comments in a general forum without the appropriate training to back them up. Good luck with your eyes. Remember, you only have two of them and they don't grow back.


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## Kiessling

> As for the drops, they are just an anti-inflammatory


Unfortunately you are dead wrong. Those are Steroid drops, and one of the strongest ones at that. I have no intention of educating you about the inherent dangers of steroid medication and locally applicated steroids in the eye as this would take the thread too far off topic.

BUT ... please ... it is about time that you learn something from your mistakes. You are using medicaments you don't really know in just the same irresponsible manner as you use your lasers.

There is a reason we do have experts at our disposal. Doctors in this case. Use them. They do know more than you do. Listen to their advice.

bernhard


EDIT: too slow. What he said


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## k00zk0

I edited my first post, and why would you claim that I'm using them irresponsibly? The doctor told me I should use them.. I simply said what it says on the package that they MAY be used that way; I never said that its smart to do so.

If they're so dangerous why didn't the doctor even tell me anything about it? It doesn't say on the dropper that they are an immunosupressant and steroid...

I think I'll stop using them as I wear contact lenses and I don't want an infection any time soon...


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## Kiessling

> I edited my first post, and why would you claim that I'm using them irresponsibly?
> The doctor told me I should use them..
> I think I'll stop using them as I wear contact lenses and I don't want an infection any time soon...



Does this answer the question in the first line?

Also ... you recommended those to other people without actually knowing what they are? Is that responsibility?





> If they're so dangerous why didn't the doctor even tell me anything about it?



Maybe because HE knows how to use them and thought you'd heed his professional advice? Maybe because you didn't ask?


Don't get me wrong ... I don't want to single you out and attack you ... but this stuff is far too important to ignore such blatant misinformation and bad advice.

bernhard


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## k00zk0

I edited my first post because theres a chance people would stop there and go and get those drops. It was misinformation but I never said that its totally safe, I said it should be. 

I don't want to nitpick words, and I don't want to start arguments, I was writing what I thought at the time, and now after learning I edited. I want to help people by telling them what happened to me. I'm not trying to act as a replacement to a real doctor.

As everyone here has already said, if this happens to you, please see an opthamologist ASAP, he'll know what to do.


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## Kiessling

Don't worry, your good intentions have never been questioned at all.


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## LuxLuthor

k00zk0, Kiessling is technically correct and accurate in what he has said, and he is trying to have this thread be accurate as well as everyone benefitting from the accidental mistakes you made, and were generous enough to share with us. 

Part of the difficulty if I remember back to when I was your age is we tended to "shoot from the hip" (even with good intentions), rather than realize that how we advise others for example, about topical corticosteroids, may have consequences. 

Your doctor certainly verified during your exam that you did not have an infection or he would not have prescribed them. I would have anticipated that he also told you not to wear your contacts while using these drops, and you may not have heard everything he said, given the fear most people would have had.

Between using the steroid or your contacts, the steroid is far more important following a burn injury to your retina than contacts. Your decision to choose not to use the drops (or vitamins) is another unwise step. These things are not being said to make you feel defensive, but more to help you and others out.

Good Luck!


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## k00zk0

I understand what Kiessling is doing and I edited my post already to get rid of false information. I told the doctor I was wearing contacts, he even acknowledged that fact that they were off for testing and got me lenses to hold infront of my eye so I could look at a grid and tell him how much of my vision I was missing. He didn't tell me not to wear my lenses, he just said it was an anti-inflammatory and it "may work its way back there and help". Yes, this was an opthamologist. I don't think it's my fault that I was informed incorrectly by him now...

He also didn't tell me how often to use the drops, and after a bit of reading these steroids work 2.5 to 3 days after you apply them. It's recommended to use them once every three days. On the packaging it says they can be used every half hour or more depending on situation.

Not all info is always correct and people should always check what they read and hear with a few more sources; that includes what k00zk0 writes on a forum...

EDIT: As for "shooting from the hip", I'm smarter than that. I was not told of any danger whatsoever by the doctor, and the drops do not say they are a steroid, nor an immunosupressant. I wouldn't have wrote what I wrote if they had said that. I had two sources of information, neither of which said anything bad. That's why I "shot from the hip" as you say and wrote that they're okay. I don't give potentially unsafe info without checking first...

I'm normally one to look up info on every substance in a drug but I guess "Anti-inflammatory" on the bottle was enough for me this time. It was a mistake and I acknowledge that I made it.


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## Robban

siggis said:


> There are some people which have problems looking at the dot of a 30mW green laser on the wall, it actually "hurts" their eyes.


*raises hand* I even find it uncomfortable to look at the dot from a 5mW greenie on a white wall. I have one 5mW and one 21mW, they have only been turned on for a handful of minutes when they were new. Now they're just collecting dust, I just don't want to take the chance.

I hope your vision recovers and that you've learned a lesson you will never forget.


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## stephenmadpotato

k00zk0 said:


> I was not told of any danger whatsoever by the doctor, and the drops do not say they are a steroid, nor an immunosupressant..


 Immunosupressants are drugs used to to stop the body from attacking transplants such as lungs. What the heck are you talking about.


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## k00zk0

Dexamethasone is an imunosupressant.


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## Norm

In the early days of transplants steroids were the main for of Immunosupressant.
Norm


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## Gazoo

Wow. It is 40X more potent then hhydrocortisone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexamethasone


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## knot

Kiessling said:


> Unfortunately you are dead wrong. Those are Steroid drops, and one of the strongest ones at that. I have no intention of educating you about the inherent dangers of steroid medication and locally applicated steroids in the eye as this would take the thread too far off topic.



Cortisol is a steroid as well but it's used for a wide variety of treatments including for insect bites and such to relieve itching. However, Dexamethasone is many times stronger than cortisol.



> Dexamethasone is a potent synthetic member of the glucocorticoid class of steroid hormones. It acts as an *anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressant*.


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## knot

Lew Fong said:


> The study was prompted by concerns that lasers now in the field might violate the Geneva Conventions outlawing weapons designed to blind an enemy.



LOL - a bullet through the eye however, is completely allowed.




I lived in an apartment complex many years ago and there was this odd 50+ year old man (tenant) that would stand in the parking area and stare at the sun on a daily basis. I spoke to the managers about him and they said there is nothing anyone can do, he's mentally ill. Somehow he made it outside on his own to do his daily ritual.


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## Kiessling

I think we should steer this thread back on topic and leave the steroids for now  Thanx. bernhard


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## jhosaki

Weird, I also heard a story about somebody who would stare at the sun. Being in the laser business, I was chatting with my optometrist about retinal burns and the like. She mentioned that she had a patient who came in with a large blind spot in his central vision. When she imaged his retinas she found huge burns in his macula. (The middle section of your vision... If this is plural would it be maculae?)

She couldn't figure out how such a thing could even happen, until he told her that every day, for 20 minutes, he would stare directly at the sun to "exercise his eyes".

...What a thing do do. I wonder if he exercises his taste buds by rinsing his mouth with sulphuric acid.


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## stephenmadpotato

jhosaki said:


> ...What a thing do do. I wonder if he exercises his taste buds by rinsing his mouth with sulphuric acid.


 
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA


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## flashlightsnlasers

I would strongly recommend that the cpf member who had the unfortunate accident with the dpss green laser see an ophthalmologist as soon as possible get a referral from your optometrist and see who is recommended,I would try to get in touch with a retinal specialist since they deal with a lot of macular diseases "macular Degeneration"etc,he or she will know what to monitor,question for you is..did your optometrist dilate your pupil in the effected eye before performing an observation in the retinascope"the device with the chin rest and the light that went left to right,"sclerotic scatter and direct illumination are techniques often used but much more accurate with dilation drops administered first since it opens the pupil to allow for less angle closure and a wider angle to view,I have worked as an optician for 2 optometrists for 24 years and have seen it all I would just like to pass this on to you,I am also an avid flashlight enthusiast collector with a few lasers the largest being an 80 mw envee which I handle like a loaded gun when showing it off in the basement beamed at the longests distance with nothing in the way..these things are great but are really dangerous too I wish you luck and feel free to post I will post a response,get a referral and get checked out,good luck.​


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## Aseras

You guys need to be more careful. There's a reason for all the warning labels.

That said after damage is done, you need to see a eye doctor ( opthamaolgist ) who needs to look at your retina via a slit lamp to check for damage. it will appear as slight discolorations for minimal exposure, right up to a large bloody area and a possible hemmorage for a serious laser exposure.

You need to do this quickly because if steriods are not given with the first day or so, the body reacts and actually can attack the eye. Another worry is sympathetic opthamalia for serisous damage. Your body can attack your good eye too. Steriods need to be given to stop the bodies natural reaction and prevent scar tissue from forming. Blood clots are bad in the retina since they will cause further nerve damage.

For damage that doesn't go away within an hour or so, expect it to last for at least a week, slowly gaining back some colors, and hopefully after a month nearly a full recovery. If you start getting colors back consider yourself lucky and hopefully you'll make a complete recovery.


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## stephenmadpotato

*RE: Damaged Eyes?*

Hey guys,
My sights doing really really well. I see perfectly fine. I just see a slight spot that is white when I blink my right eye really fast. This was of course done when I had my left eye shut so I knew my brain wasn't compensating. All and all I lucked out big time. Let this be a warning to all. DO NOT SCREW WITH THESE LASERS, or they will bite you back in the ***. 
-Stephen


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## LuxLuthor

Again, it was really great for you to share your experiences. The unfortunate thing is all those buying these lasers and not reading this or similar threads to fully realize the dangers. I think I read recently on Wicked's site that they now give goggles to everyone with lights. They were very expensive when I got mine over a year ago, and I'm sure many did not want the extra expense.


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## stephenmadpotato

Hey all,
Im back to normal. Everythings fine, from what I can tell I made a full recovery, not sure what a doctor would say however. I know my brain is just compensating but I can't see that dot anymore unless I cover my left eye and focus.


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## Bimmerboy

stephenmadpotato said:


> Hey all,
> Im back to normal. Everythings fine,
> 
> I can't see that dot anymore unless I cover my left eye and focus.



Where does one start with this?

A word of advice is all I can say...

_Do not look into beam with remaining eye_.


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## stephenmadpotato

Haha yep that would suck.


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## tobjectpascal

Here's my story...

I bought a 10mw leadlight laser about a year ago i modified it changing the resistors, maxed out the pot, realized it was a little too bright so i knocked the pot back to half way, it visually now gives around 50 - 60mw and i'm very happy at the power....

however even with it fluctuating slightly if left too long on or when it over heats it produces a dual beam (mode switching?) if used for short periods it's fine problem free but...

Twice now i've hit a window / mirror and had the beam hit my eye full on, it was not a point blank but, but for 20 minutes or so all i could see was a green line of dots, blinking my eyes and seeing green blobs over everything... after about an hour or so, the dots went away BUT....

Now i'm not sure if the laser did this or not, but the brightness or intensity level of objects at night or low light don't show in the center, best way to describe this is in a dark room with a little light, you see objects, imagine a white towel, if i look straight at the towel i barely see it, but if i look slightly to the side of it in any direction, i see the white towel...

I'm short sighted have been since the age of about 12, too much using the computer, but this recent problem due to the laser ? anyone else have a similar issue? My brother-in-law sees "black dots" everywhere he looks in bright light due to doing some welding and i assume that's similar to what these people on here talk about, but can the intensity damage the way light is processed?


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## TorchBoy

tobjectpascal said:


> Now i'm not sure if the laser did this or not, but the brightness or intensity level of objects at night or low light don't show in the center, best way to describe this is in a dark room with a little light, you see objects, imagine a white towel, if i look straight at the towel i barely see it, but if i look slightly to the side of it in any direction, i see the white towel...


 My 93 year old grandmother has that problem (she says since her cataract operation/s), especially with stars.


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## Kiessling

Everyone has that "problem" as it is physiological (normal).
In simple terms ... the center of vision of the retina is better equipped to see colorful and sharp but isn't as effective when there's almost not enough light ... which means there is a threshhold where you just don't see an object when looking at it directly while you can see it when focussing on a spot just next to it.

You can test this with stars ... try focussing on dim stars and they will disappear ... and reappear when you look away.

bernhard


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## tobjectpascal

Kiessling said:


> Everyone has that "problem" as it is physiological (normal).
> In simple terms ... the center of vision of the retina is better equipped to see colorful and sharp but isn't as effective when there's almost not enough light ... which means there is a threshhold where you just don't see an object when looking at it directly while you can see it when focussing on a spot just next to it.
> 
> You can test this with stars ... try focussing on dim stars and they will disappear ... and reappear when you look away.
> 
> bernhard




That's good to know thank you, my laser never did it, at least that's one less thing to worry about


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## Kiessling

This phenomenon doesn't mean that you haven't laser-induced eye damage in addition to it, of course. I was merely explaining the physiology of the human eye.


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## itspecialist

i asked an optometrist about this and he said if it doesnt improve within a year you are out of luck


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## Vulcan

So, I was planning on buying a 10mW green laser. 

This thread changed my mind.

I don't doubt my own abilities to safely use it... But being at college I can just see someone else getting ahold of it and doing some damage. :X


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## dimaprok

k00zk0 said:


> ...directly into the macula, 0.5 sec or so exposure. It's been 3 days now, and It seems to have gotten very slightly better, but I'm still missing vision in the very center of my right eye. I am so {_censored_} scared right now, you don't even know it.


 
I never shined laser in my eyes, but I got a spot and wavy hairline in my right eye that can be seen in the bright light. I am almost certain, I got it from testing video games at Microsoft, particularly xbox games on TV. I remember my eyes hurting so bad first couple weeks, I would have to close them ocationally. Computer games were ok, no problem, I've been playing them for long time before, but it's the refresh rate of TV that hurt the most. I also had to work overtime very often, so 10 hours a day was too much. The spot doesn't bother me much, but it's not so bad. 

Also, DO NOT try to "stimulate" your eye by flashing light or what not. It's like getting a sand in your eyes and trying to clear it out by flashing with rubbing alcohol.


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## laserblue

even green laser pointers can damage your eyes that's according to Mayo clinic opthalmologists

http://greenlaserpointer.blogspot.com/2007/10/green-laser-pointer-can-cause-eye.html


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## AvPD

I'm a new 50mW green laser owner and am worried about even looking at the reflected light indoors due to reading about its possible high IR output. I have a recent predating artifact in my vision that looks like a raindrop on a camera lens when I blink or squint, most likely due to briefly looking into several LED torches I recently bought (why didn't it occur to me to at least use sunglasses). I use some welding goggles I happen to have when using it indoors or when unsucessfully trying to light a match or burn myself, it's simply not worth risking my vision at all just for some trivial laser use. I have been wondering if pointing the laser eg. at the ceiling and looking at the reflected light on a wall is dangerous, it might only be the IR equivalent of looking at a bar heater.


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## broadgage

Does anyone know at what distance a handheld laser can damage eyesight?
The beam does diverge with distance, though only very slightly.

The stupidty of pointing lasers at persons, or vehicles containing persons, hopefully does not need repeating here. But what about pointing a laser into apparently empty sky, as is often done, could this endanger the sight of crew in high flying military airplanes? (some of which fly so high as to be not readily visible)

Or what about the practice of directing a laser onto a distant mountain top, could this damage the sight of anyone on the mountain? (who at a distance of perhaps 10 miles would not be visible to the laser user)

Or even taken to the extreme, would a laser directed at the moon be dangerous to anyone on the moon? (i know the moon is empty now, but in future?)


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## TorchBoy

Holding lasers steady over ranges of kilometers might be an issue if hand-holding, but there are some very powerful lasers available to consumers these days, and I suppose the more powerful ones are more likely to be mounted.

By the time a laser gets to the moon it covers an area several kilometers across. Only telescopes and retroreflectors on the moon allow the "dot" to be seen from Earth.


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## rmyc

and that why those lasers are illegal in the US


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## stephenmadpotato

rmyc said:


> and that why those lasers are illegal in the US


 
Actually they aren't illegal if you have the 5 point safety system....


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## laserblue

WEll with the increasing powers of green laser pointers, i think laser safety googles should also be worn when operating the laser pointers


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## rmyc

stephenmadpotato said:


> Actually they aren't illegal if you have the 5 point safety system....


 
Yes they are, i woked for a green laser company in the US, they sell the best laser product. we were selling high powed green lasers and got audited and fined by FDA. Look at all the high power green lasers they are pretty much all sold from over seas because they are illegal


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## stephenmadpotato

rmyc said:


> Yes they are, i woked for a green laser company in the US, they sell the best laser product. we were selling high powed green lasers and got audited and fined by FDA. Look at all the high power green lasers they are pretty much all sold from over seas because they are illegal


 
You are wrong. Lasers that have the 5-point safety system. I am not going to waste the time to look it up, but here is a reputable site selling legal class IIIB lasers. http://www.thinkgeek.com/files/laser-instructions-2.pdf


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## Athoul

Wow... I'm very sorry to hear about what happened. I hope everything turns out ok.

I'm a big advocate of lsaer safety and have made many posts on it in the past (on other forums). What I really think is nessessary is some documentation included with every laser indicating the potential dangers and safe use of the device.

As for legality etc. 5-point safety features do not make it legal. These safety features are required for public use in... for example a club. However in your own home, a laser does not have to have any form of safety feature to be legal. When used outdoors, it's most likely not legal to shine any high powered laser around (safety features or not).

I have seen someone look into a laser device that had the 5-star safety because they thought it was broken. Lucky they looked away in time as the beam then turned on, due to the few second delay. Without proper documentation, this can be even more dangerous then a laser without a delay.

I have seen documentaion describing how to insert batteries, turn the device on etc... but as of yet generally no documentation on the safety aspect.

There's also those who insist that a 5mW laser is safe. This is not true. I have focused one enough that it made a tiny hole in a very thin plastic material. The membrane in an eye is just as delicate or even more so!

The accidents that occur with lasers are generally very easily avoided. I believe that it really comes down to the lack of danger awareness due to lack of included documentation. There's plenty of laser danger threads listed throughout the various forums, but documentation provided with the laser would allow everyone that purchased one immediate access to the information.


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## stephenmadpotato

Athoul said:


> Wow... I'm very sorry to hear about what happened. I hope everything turns out ok.
> 
> I'm a big advocate of lsaer safety and have made many posts on it in the past (on other forums). What I really think is nessessary is some documentation included with every laser indicating the potential dangers and safe use of the device.
> 
> As for legality etc. 5-point safety features do not make it legal. These safety features are required for public use in... for example a club. However in your own home, a laser does not have to have any form of safety feature to be legal. When used outdoors, it's most likely not legal to shine any high powered laser around (safety features or not).
> 
> I have seen someone look into a laser device that had the 5-star safety because they thought it was broken. Lucky they looked away in time as the beam then turned on, due to the few second delay. Without proper documentation, this can be even more dangerous then a laser without a delay.
> 
> I have seen documentaion describing how to insert batteries, turn the device on etc... but as of yet generally no documentation on the safety aspect.
> 
> There's also those who insist that a 5mW laser is safe. This is not true. I have focused one enough that it made a tiny hole in a very thin plastic material. The membrane in an eye is just as delicate or even more so!
> 
> The accidents that occur with lasers are generally very easily avoided. I believe that it really comes down to the lack of danger awareness due to lack of included documentation. There's plenty of laser danger threads listed throughout the various forums, but documentation provided with the laser would allow everyone that purchased one immediate access to the information.


 
Hi,
actually, if you read the FDA'S 
21 CFR1040.10 and 1040.11, it states all unregistered class IIIB laser pointers must be used indoors, in a room with no reflective surfaces and warning signs must be posted before entering the room.


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## V8TOYTRUCK

Can someone recommend safety glasses for use with high powered lasers? I was thinking of picking one up from dealextreme


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## Athoul

That criteria does not apply to your own personal use in your own home. You are free to invent and design things etc, with or without warning labels safety etc.. However if someone else was injured by it, yes you would be fully liable.

For example you could have a fully fuctional 100 Watt CO2 laser in your garage. If it didn't contain any safety features etc, it would still be fine. However the moment that others have acess to it, it becomes an issue.

Of course it's better to just always use the proper safety measures, but the point is that there are certian cases where it's not illegal to not have them in place.

As for safety goggles, you probalby want at least an OD (optical density) of 3 when using class 3b laser devices. The higher the OD, the more protection they offer. Make sure the goggles protect against all the wavelengths involved (eg. 808,1064 and 532nm for DPSS greens).


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## stephenmadpotato

Hey all, I am giving my final update. I had an eye doctor appointment today and had them check to see if I still have any damage. The results were devestating, apparently I have destroyed all of the green portion of my vision in my right eye and it will probably rot in the near future causing total blindness.


























































Hahaha, just kidding I'm fine no damage. She checked every section of my eye and could not find any damage.


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## Athoul

I'm very glad to find out that everything turned out to be fine. You did come close to potential damage though!

I'd like to point out one other thing, not sure if it was mentioned before. However even lasers of 5mW can be dangerous. 5mW greens would be more dangerous then reds because the red coloured tissue abosrbs green much better. Why risk it though? Always be careful with any laser.


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## AvPD

I wonder how k00zk0 is doing.


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## Kiessling

I think it is time to close this one in order to preserve it as a testimony and to avoid slipping into questionable jokes.
bernhard


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