# Mags without C/D in the serial number: are they better than newer ones?



## StorminMatt (Dec 19, 2012)

I found an ad on craigslist for a bunch of Maglites, including a 2C and 4C cell light. I have to admit that C cell lights are a weakness of mine, so I just HAD to go pick the up (along with a 3D that's in decent shape for a 'good measure'). The 3D has a D in the serial number, so it mustbe a newer light. However, neither of the C cell lights have C in their serial number, which suggests that they are older lights. I've heard about these older Mags. Are they any better than the newer ones?


----------



## argleargle (Jan 16, 2013)

The older lights disassemble in such a way that if the batteries are stuck and corroded in there you can just about forget it. This happened to me with a 3D mag. The switch on the older ones slide out through the tail. I tried every hook, drillbit, and crook that I could get my hands on. The last D cell had become ONE with the battery chamber.

If it had been the newer style, the switch slides out through the nose and I could have gotten serious with a dowel rod and a hammer to get out the stuck cell.

I ended up junking it in frustration, and only too late did I recall the lifetime warranty. Oops. Maybe I should have sent it to the nice folks at Mag instead of getting angry. Guess I wanted one with the new style disassembly anyway in case the batteries get stuck again.


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 16, 2013)

I can't speak for the "no D" Mags, but the older "no C" Mags have a wider bore, allowing some tubes to fit 26650 cells.

Additionally, and this is purely my personal experience, the older "no C" Mags have a much more robust feeling clicky. I can't stand the feeling of the newer Mag "C" clickies, which feel like horse poo. There is close to zero tactile feedback.


----------



## ampdude (Jan 16, 2013)

I don't know how old the no C and no D lights are, but I came across some old stock incan Mags in a store today and they went all the way back to 2005 and still had the C and D in the serials.

I noticed a long time ago how spongy the clicky on the C Mags feels compared to the D Mags, I wonder why they did that. I used to use a 2C and a 2D Mag for spotting addresses at night.


----------



## LEDAdd1ct (Jan 17, 2013)

I do.

Before 1999 for the "C" Mags. Don't know about the "D" Mags—perhaps a Mag junkie can step in and answer.

Mag "C" lights from 1999 and earlier with no "C" in the serial number don't _all_ have the robust, firm clicky, but a significant proportion of them do.

I can't stand the newer Mag "C" switches. They are downright horrible.


----------



## PCC (Jan 17, 2013)

LEDAdd1ct said:


> I can't speak for the "no D" Mags, but the older "no C" Mags have a wider bore, allowing some tubes to fit 26650 cells.


The older Mags were made to fit paper wrapped cells so they have larger bores than the newer ones and that includes the D cell Mags.


----------



## StorminMatt (Jan 19, 2013)

argleargle said:


> The older lights disassemble in such a way that if the batteries are stuck and corroded in there you can just about forget it. This happened to me with a 3D mag. The switch on the older ones slide out through the tail. I tried every hook, drillbit, and crook that I could get my hands on. The last D cell had become ONE with the battery chamber.
> 
> If it had been the newer style, the switch slides out through the nose and I could have gotten serious with a dowel rod and a hammer to get out the stuck cell.
> 
> I ended up junking it in frustration, and only too late did I recall the lifetime warranty. Oops. Maybe I should have sent it to the nice folks at Mag instead of getting angry. Guess I wanted one with the new style disassembly anyway in case the batteries get stuck again.



That's not what I've noticed. With these older lights, the switch slides out of the top of the light. At least with the C cell lights. And with the newer lights (C or D in serial number), the switch slides out the tail. Of course, if you use NiMH batteries instead of alkalines, you don't have to worry about leakage.


----------



## argleargle (Jan 19, 2013)

Hmm. Did I just get something backwards and am confusing two different lights? This was a while ago. Maybe that's it?


----------



## PCC (Jan 19, 2013)

My pre-"D" 2D Mag has a threaded lock ring that unscrews from the front of the light. If the batteries got stuck in the light I could unscrew the head, reach in there with a pair of needle-nose pliers and unscrew the ring. Then the switch removal procedure is just like the newer Mags except that the switch comes out the top.


----------



## argleargle (Jan 19, 2013)

I must not be remembering the serial correctly, then. I recall a non removable switch and a corrosion-welded battery. I had three different spring steel hooks I tried to use to pull that cell next to the switch. I don't recall a spinning ring in what I was talking about. Maybe the cell welded itself to the switch?

Very sorry about half-remembered stuff. At least it spurred discussion. There's that. 

Anyone who reads my posts knows I try not to say stuff that's junk.


----------



## Jimson (Jan 22, 2013)

PCC said:


> My pre-"D" 2D Mag has a threaded lock ring that unscrews from the front of the light. If the batteries got stuck in the light I could unscrew the head, reach in there with a pair of needle-nose pliers and unscrew the ring. Then the switch removal procedure is just like the newer Mags except that the switch comes out the top.



My 6C Maglite arrived in the mail today, and it turned out to be an old one without the "C" in the serial number. The first difference I noticed was that the "O" ring waterproofing the head was on the head itself instead of on the barrel as with the newer ones. I saw that threaded switch ring, and though I could get it off I still couldn't get the switch out. 

Finally, the barrel is larger, so I've got to wait for the shim I'll need to take the Malkoff Mod from a new C light and put it on this one.


----------



## PCC (Jan 23, 2013)

After you remove the ring you still need to use a 2mm Allen wrench through the switch button trick to get the switch out.


----------



## Jimson (Jan 24, 2013)

PCC said:


> After you remove the ring you still need to use a 2mm Allen wrench through the switch button trick to get the switch out.



Thanks for the tip. The switch unit is the only part of the Maglite I've never tackled because I didn't know how. After reading your post I made a forum search to find out how to remove the rubber switch covering. Turns out to be simple, but I'd never had the nerve to try on my own before.

That thread telling how to do the switch also spoke of the importance of centering the bulbs to get a perfect spot. The metal retention caps for the new xenon bulbs come with a smaller hole than the older ones. With only a bit of hone work I was able to use one of them with an aftermarket LED bulb. The spot is perfectly round, and the smallest I've ever seen in a flashlight. Pointed towards a far ceiling corner of the garage, the light spreads out only about 8 inches. I paced off 50 yards and the spread was barely more than a yard. If the lens hadn't been so scratched I think it would have been a bit better.


----------



## Jimson (Jan 27, 2013)

I suppose everybody with a new toy has to try it out, even though in my case "new" is pretty darned old. 

I loaded up the 6C with six alkaline batteries, turned it on, and started the timer. Since I don't have any fancy meters to make a graph, I dug out some other lights which were supposed to have such-and-such lumen outputs.

Until six hours into the test the 6C had a brighter output than did an older 3D Maglite with built-in 100 lumen LED.
It wasn't until the 12 hour mark the Maglite's beam was dimmer than a 40 lumen bulb. From then till the end of the run at 24 hours the beam was rock steady - slightly brighter than a 9 lumen bulb in a 1D flashlight.

I stopped at that point because I was curious about the state of the batteries - would they still run in another light with some fancy-looking electronic regulation circuitry. Checking each one with a battery tester, I was mystified by the first, second, and third samples showing them to be on the lower end of the "green" part of the scale - still good. Then came the fourth test where that cell was completely dead. I rummaged around to find another C battery at the same state of charge as the other 5 (an old Dollar Store carbon-zinc) and put the light back together. The output was suddenly back to considerably brighter than the 100 lumen light. So I'd have to say at this point the antique 6C Maglite is an A-OK light for me.


----------



## EscapeVelocity (Jan 28, 2013)

I might try one of those Malkoff XP-G drop ins for my 6C Mag. Thanks for sharing your experience. 

May I suggest a couple of other enhancements.

An Orange Peel dimpled Aluminum Reflector for heat transference and beam quality with the diffusion action.

http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S006166

And an Anti-Reflective coated UCL or better yet a Schott Borofloat lens for heat and scratch resistance. 52.1mm x 2mm

http://www.flashlightlens.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=mag_C_D


----------



## Jimson (Jan 28, 2013)

EscapeVelocity said:


> I might try one of those Malkoff XP-G drop ins for my 6C Mag. Thanks for sharing your experience.
> 
> May I suggest a couple of other enhancements.
> 
> ...



I forgot to mention in my post that my Malkoff Mod was the lower power one.

http://www.malkoffdevices.com/shop/36-c-cell-dropin-to-fit-maglite-p-5.html

Actually, even lower powered that this, for the one I bought was made before the price drop and improved output. I have the drop-in for the 6D too, and there is an appreciable difference both in the brightness and current draw. The 6C module rated at 260 lumens draws 25% less current than the newer 6D 300 lumen module, and produces noticeably less light. Which is fine with me, for the C battery is quite a bit smaller. 

I've given the XM-L drop-in a lot of thought and have decided against it because I don't believe ordinary batteries will power it properly. Being able to drop just about anything into the light and make it work is a definite "plus" in my opinion. For example, before I transferred the 'C' drop-in from a 3 cell light, I tried it with 3 AA batteries. It ran for 45 minutes with a very bright output before abruptly fading. And I got an other 45 minutes of useful illumination after that before extinction. 

Thanks for the information about the special reflector. It's pricey, but since the spot from the older Malkoff mods is only so-so anyhow, I think I'm going to try one.


----------



## EscapeVelocity (Jan 28, 2013)

Hope that works out to your liking. If you dont like it, Ill probably be needing another one, myself...so. Let us know how you like it, always interested in others experiences.


----------



## StorminMatt (Jan 28, 2013)

Jimson said:


> Actually, even lower powered that this, for the one I bought was made before the price drop and improved output. I have the drop-in for the 6D too, and there is an appreciable difference both in the brightness and current draw. The 6C module rated at 260 lumens draws 25% less current than the newer 6D 300 lumen module, and produces noticeably less light. Which is fine with me, for the C battery is quite a bit smaller.
> 
> I've given the XM-L drop-in a lot of thought and have decided against it because I don't believe ordinary batteries will power it properly. Being able to drop just about anything into the light and make it work is a definite "plus" in my opinion. For example, before I transferred the 'C' drop-in from a 3 cell light, I tried it with 3 AA batteries. It ran for 45 minutes with a very bright output before abruptly fading. And I got an other 45 minutes of useful illumination after that before extinction.



The last I saw, the 3-6C drop-in from Malkoff has also increased in output from 260 to 300 lumens. All of Malkoff's drop-ins have increased in brightness from the use of newer, more efficient LEDs. In the case of the 3-6C, the LED has been upgraded from an XPG to an XPG2. The increase from 260 to 300 lumens comes about due to the resulting increase in efficiency from going with the XPG2. Power consumption is the same. The same is true of the new XML2 drop-ins vs the previous XML.

Speaking of the XM-L2, if by 'ordinary batteries' you mean alkalines, it will run on alkalines. Performance will simply be suboptimal compared to more powerful batteries (ie NiMH or Li-Ion). The XML2 could certainly be run on alkalines. But I would say that it would be something you would only want to do in a pinch if you don't have charged NiMH batteries available. Of course, if you're running the XML2 on 1x18650 or 1x26650 in a 2C, alkalines are NOT going to work.


----------



## StorminMatt (Jan 28, 2013)

I should also note that I just received my Fusion 36 drop-in today, and found one potential advantage of the older C lights vs the newer ones. With the older C lights, the bottom of the module is of a diameter that is a virtually perfect fit in the top of the older C cell tube. The module has a very slight drag going into the tube, but nothing serious. And with the head screwed down all the way, about an eighth of an inch of the module is in the tube. Not sure how significant this is. But it seems like it might provide a degree of heatsinking that you won't get with a newer C light or any of the D lights.


----------



## Jimson (Jan 29, 2013)

EscapeVelocity said:


> Hope that works out to your liking. If you dont like it, Ill probably be needing another one, myself...so. Let us know how you like it, always interested in others experiences.



After some thought I decided to look at the archives to see if anybody had posted some photographs of the non-mirror Mag reflectors. They had, and the effect wasn't quite what I expected. Having some extra reflectors around the house, I decided to take a crack at modifying one myself. 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009XCKBA/?tag=cpf0b6-20

Most hardware stores stock this stuff. I've used my can quite a lot, 'disappearing' some really annoying mirrors on my car's visors and obscuring some garage windows which had showcased the clutter inside, among other things. 

Several light coats of spray seem to work out better than a single heavy one which will tend to "run", so that's what I did when I sat the little reflector in the center of a large drop cloth in the garage floor. Installed in a 40 lumen Mag, the formerly decent spot of that light just disappeared. The beam spread is now extreme - 6 feet wide when held at 2 feet from a wall. For rummaging through a furniture drawer, looking for a specific item in the tool cabinet, or picking my way through a cluttered room, this is just about perfect. 

When I put the reflector in my weakest lights they became instantly worthless. And I didn't like the effect in the 300 lumen 6D either. In that one the loss was at least 10%, and when inside the house a ceiling bounce gave better illumination than with my frosted reflector. Currently I have no outside application for a wide bright light, so this reflector will stay with mid-range lights for indoor use. By the way, that Mag now has a novel look - actually quite pretty.


----------



## EscapeVelocity (Jan 29, 2013)

Here is the *Mega Reflector Shootout*.


----------

