# The most disliked emitter



## tre (Oct 26, 2010)

Ok, Jax started a thread for the most loved emitter. I think we should also have the opposite thread.

What is your all time worst emitter to date?

rules...
1) you must have OWNED 3 or more LED lights in the past.
2) not looking for 2 answers ie,one for flood one for throw..
looking for: in your total flashlight experiance which emitter 
did you dislike most
3) can be from any time period/ manufacturer,and any 
type/bin/tint
4) brief description of why it got disliked the most
5) YOU MUST HAVE OWNED THIS EMITTER.
6) what light this emitter graced.


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## tre (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

I'll go first. XP-G hands down. 95% of the lights I own (or owned) with the XP-G have horrible tint and massive doughnut hole (LD20, T20C2 MKII, Maelstrom G5, SC60,....)


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## mbw_151 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

I don't know what emitter it was, but Inova put it in the x1 version 3 and took a perfectly reasonable light, the x1 version 2 and ruined it. There was a slight improvement in brightness and a huge drop in runtime, from about 8 hours to about 1.5. That is definitely my most hated emitter. This change occurred about the same time Inova put the Luxeon K2 emitter in the T1, T2 and T3 lights, not quite as bad a tradeoff of runtime for output but close.


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## jax (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

haha,good thinking tre!!:thumbsup:
most hated for me is el cheapo 5mm old school led's,that i spent so much money on,before finding this forum..


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## tandem (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

Most hated? Probably the Nichia GS with its blueish output in the Fenix E01. But in the tiny department at least the E01 is also one of my favourite lights kicking around here.


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## B0wz3r (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



tandem said:


> Most hated? Probably the Nichia GS with its blueish output in the Fenix E01. But in the tiny department at least the E01 is also one of my favourite lights kicking around here.



+1

After that, any emitter that is off center in its reflector.


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## mossyoak (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

The first generation lumileds K2
Was lumileds answer to the XRE and SSC p4 but half the brightness. And runtime. It did have a nice tint and was physically very durable


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## Matt7337 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

I think your rules are backwards tre 

I don't know to be honest. I might be with you on the XP-G but I'll have to have a long hard think about it and get back to you on this one


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## kramer5150 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

Your thread is confusing... The title is asking for "the most hated emitter"

The body is asking for:
4) brief description of why it got the most love/tickled your fancy

looking for: in your total flashlight experiance which emitter
excited you most/felt the most love for/stands above all else
in the joy it gave you.

Which one are you after? I am not sure so I will give you both.

WORST:
Cree XRC and XPC... equally crap-tacular. Why they even created either of these is beyond me. You could make the argument that their smaller die size could be used for pencil-beam throw. But the surface brightness of either stinks compared to other emitters in the same footprint.

Best:
Warm tint MCE. Nice floody beam, great all around performer.


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## NeutronStar (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



tandem said:


> Most hated? Probably the Nichia GS with its blueish output in the Fenix E01. But in the tiny department at least the E01 is also one of my favourite lights kicking around here.



Another +1. 

Although mine has a definite purple tint.

-ns


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## Tiresius (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

SSC P4. Never met any other emitter that I hate so much. Color tint sucks so much and it never fits my taste for the G2, U2 and 6P. I hated the fact that Surefire replaced my old Lux head with a P4 head on my U2 when water seeped through the lens.

Tint color sucks and the brightness sucks.

I like the XP-G in a OP reflector more. It's just so much better on my Qmini with a warm tint.


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## WadeF (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

I might have to say the XR-E because I have so many lights with it that have ringy beams. I was so happy to move on to the XP-E and XP-G with their cleaner beams. Sure, there are worse emitters, but I haven't had enough experience with them to develop any level of hate for them, so that's why I'm going with the XR-E, due to it annoying me with it's beam characteristics.  

Most loved ATM, XP-G.


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## kramer5150 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



WadeF said:


> I might have to say the XR-E because I have so many lights with it that have ringy beams. I was so happy to move on to the XP-E and XP-G with their cleaner beams. Sure, there are worse emitters, but I haven't had enough experience with them to develop any level of hate for them, so that's why I'm going with the XR-E, due to it annoying me with it's beam characteristics.
> 
> Most loved ATM, XP-G.



FWIW... an XRE in the right reflector can have a completely ring/artifact free beam. its the poorly designed reflector that results in cree rings.


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## Black Rose (Oct 26, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



WadeF said:


> I might have to say the XR-E because I have so many lights with it that have ringy beams.


+1

Can't stand the ringy beams.

I do have a couple of XR-E based lights (Fenix) that have really nice beams, but most of my P60 drop-ins have the bad rings.


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## tre (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



Matt7337 said:


> I think your rules are backwards tre


 


kramer5150 said:


> Your thread is confusing... The title is asking for "the most hated emitter"
> 
> The body is asking for...:


 

Doh! fixed. cut and pasted too fast from the "most loved emitter" thread.


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## Chrontius (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



mbw_151 said:


> I don't know what emitter it was, but Inova put it in the x1 version 3 and took a perfectly reasonable light, the x1 version 2 and ruined it. There was a slight improvement in brightness and a huge drop in runtime, from about 8 hours to about 1.5. That is definitely my most hated emitter. This change occurred about the same time Inova put the Luxeon K2 emitter in the T1, T2 and T3 lights, not quite as bad a tradeoff of runtime for output but close.



Quoted for truth. They couldn't even center the algae-green thing in the reflector, too.


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## jtblue (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

My most hated LED is the Nicha GS in my Fenix E01


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## LEDninja (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

All tightly focussed 5 mm LED/LED arrays.
The tight focussing creates a blue/purple center in the beam.

The worst is not a torch but a household spotlight. The beam is too narrow to be useful and the tint...


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## jellydonut (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



tre said:


> I'll go first. XP-G hands down. 95% of the lights I own (or owned) with the XP-G have horrible tint and massive doughnut hole (LD20, T20C2 MKII, Maelstrom G5, SC60,....)


That's not the emitter's fault.. I'll avoid saying too much. 

I'll say the white 5mms in my SF A2, I guess they're Nichia somethings. Nasty blue softspot (warmspot? coldspot? ) with a sickly blue/yellow corona. Blargh.


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## Jash (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

Most hated emitter...the one that fails!


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## TomH (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



kramer5150 said:


> FWIW... an XRE in the right reflector can have a completely ring/artifact free beam. its the poorly designed reflector that results in cree rings.


 

Agreed! The XR-E in my Streamlight PT 1AA has about an artifact free beam as you could want in a light. The "Cree ring" isn't too bad on this model either.


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## Ezeriel (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

xp-g xr-e.. all greek to me

...but whatever the R series is, is so green I'll never buy another one again

I liked the rebels, the color of the Q's was just plain beautiful, but the R's are hideous.


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## Gatsby (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

It's easy to say the Nichia GS in this case I suppose - but hard to compare a 5mm to other emitters.

I've only owned one of them but the Nichia Rigel emitter (I think that was the right one) that was in a Terralux TLE-10 was dreadful - yellow and cat urine green corona. Worst color emitter I've seen, by far.


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## Gary123 (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



kramer5150 said:


> FWIW... an XRE in the right reflector can have a completely ring/artifact free beam. its the poorly designed reflector that results in cree rings.


 
I don't think that's true. If you wanted to maximize throw from this emitter, you got the rings. Even Don's reflectors for this emitter produced rings. I had reflectors mated to this emitter that had no rings, and it was actually a beautiful beam, but I had no throw.


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## mossyoak (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



tre said:


> I'll go first. XP-G hands down. 95% of the lights I own (or owned) with the XP-G have horrible tint and massive doughnut hole (LD20, T20C2 MKII, Maelstrom G5, SC60,....)



And everyone wonders why HDS doesnt use them...


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## Kestrel (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

Although it might have been a good emitter at the time, I wasn't impressed with the *Luxeon V* in my SureFire L2. Decent output, but not enough lux for outdoors use. Mine has a somewhat greenish tint - all the other high-output LED's I've had have had much better tints (particulary the XP-G's ). IIRC, others have posted complaints about the tint of the LuxV as well.

My opinion on this emitter is also somewhat related to the fact that the 2s2p MC-E is a near-perfect replacement for it, and a quantum improvement in output, efficiency, and tint availability.


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## jellydonut (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



mossyoak said:


> And everyone wonders why HDS doesnt use them...


All my XP-G Malkoffs (Hound Dog, a gaggle of M61s, one Wildcat V2 which has passed down to Germany) have/had flawless beams. I'm sure HDS could pull it off if they wanted to.

I don't want to say too much about the lights and manufacturers listed, but let's just say.. None of them are Malkoff. :tinfoil:


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## bulbman (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

anything cool white:sick2:


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## asdalton (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

My experience with the Cree XP-G in four lights is mixed. All have a slight donut hole. For centering, my 4sevens Maelstrom and 2x123A Quark Turbo are flawless. My 2xAA Quark Turbo is acceptable, and my Eagletac T20C2 MkII R5 leaves a lot to be desired. (In the last of these, I have swapped in the neutral white XP-E Q4 module.)


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## csshih (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

osram ostar.
overhyped by a particular 'custom' lights guy.


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## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*

:thumbsup: Ohhhh.... good one.

Of course I am not qualified to speak to its dis-qualifications as I only owned one light with the ostar. But, why would anyone make a 6-die LED hard wired in series requiring a 21volt input. 



csshih said:


> osram ostar.
> overhyped by a particular 'custom' lights guy.


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## jellydonut (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> :thumbsup: Ohhhh.... good one.
> 
> Of course I am not qualified to speak to its dis-qualifications as I only owned one light with the ostar. But, why would anyone make a 6-die LED hard wired in series requiring a 21volt input.


For fixed lighting needs - I can only assume. Repurposing a fixed lighting LED for a flashlight is going to lead to a cool looking spec sheet and not much more. Doesn't stop some folks from doing it..


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## fisk-king (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



jellydonut said:


> All my XP-G Malkoffs (Hound Dog, a gaggle of M61s, one Wildcat V2 which has passed down to Germany) have/had flawless beams. I'm sure HDS could pull it off if they wanted to.
> 
> I don't want to say too much about the lights and manufacturers listed, but let's just say.. None of them are Malkoff. :tinfoil:


 

I have to agree. Malkoff has done a great job with their XP-G lineup and also an honorable mention to the Haiku XP-G. A very nice beam I must say.


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## DM51 (Oct 27, 2010)

I'm not sure "hated" is a particularly useful word to apply to emitters, so I'm changing the thread title and moving the thread to LED.


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## vickers214 (Oct 27, 2010)

R5, in an AA powered light had a few now and all green and my personal preference means the floody beam make me dislike it even more!

Got one in a 18650 Skyray and it is a nice cool white tint and a decent spot, I guess when its driven harder it changes colour, and the hot spot is from the big relector, Q5/R2 all the way for me.


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## darknessemitter (Oct 27, 2010)

*Luxeon PWT?*

No ones mentioned the *Luxeon PWT* yet? 
In case no one remembers this sad little emitter, it was the Pre-Rebel off-center rectangle that was used in the sketchy Gen 3 Inova X1 (now replaced with a nicer Seoul P9) and in the Inova Bolt 2xAAA. While the beam and tint from this emitter wasn't too bad, it turned out to be really inefficient and had a shorter than normal expected lifetime. If I remember correctly, I think it was even less efficient than the old Lux I.


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## darknessemitter (Oct 27, 2010)

Oh wait, I guess MBW 151 did mention it, just didn't know the name.


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## darknessemitter (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



mossyoak said:


> The first generation lumileds K2
> Was lumileds answer to the XRE and SSC p4 but half the brightness. And runtime. It did have a nice tint and was physically very durable


 
One interesting K2 Gen 1 light that managed to perform ok though was the Inova Bolt 2xAA. Most people didn't seem to realize it was a K2, and didn't mind so much because it wasn't overdriven into heat loss like most K2 lights. Seems that running it at a lower level resulted in performance similar to a Lux III... which isn't good, but hey, that's still preferable to being less efficient than a Lux III!


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## chanjyj (Oct 27, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



Gary123 said:


> I don't think that's true. If you wanted to maximize throw from this emitter, you got the rings. Even Don's reflectors for this emitter produced rings. I had reflectors mated to this emitter that had no rings, and it was actually a beautiful beam, but I had no throw.



Nah. My Fenix TK10 (XR-E, 7090 Q5) has a perfect ringless beam. I don't know what you define 'throw' as, but while not a thrower, I'd say the TK10 is not a wall of light either.


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## spencer (Oct 27, 2010)

I disagree with the entire premise of this thread. Some people are making valid points about the actually LEDs but most of the posts are about who has implemented the emitter cheaply/poorly in a flashlight. IMO the poor implementation of an LED into a flashlight should not be grounds for making it the most disliked emitter for you.


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## kramer5150 (Oct 28, 2010)

*Re: the most hated emitter*



tre said:


> Doh! fixed. cut and pasted too fast from the "most loved emitter" thread.


:thumbsup:


Cree XRC and XPC... are equally crap-tacular. Why they even created either of these is beyond me. You could make the argument that their smaller die size could be used for pencil-beam throw. But the surface brightness of either stinks compared to other emitters in the same footprint.

I owned the XRC in an energizer hard case light. Good light overall, crappy LED. Hows 25 ~Lumens with only 75 minutes of run time with 2AAA eneloops.:thumbsdow. This is one of my least efficient LED lights from a Lumens/watt standpoint.

I own the XPC in a Joby tripod 3AA task light. Nice light, but it could be a lot brighter and floodier without sacrificing run time if they used an XPG.


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## deadrx7conv (Oct 28, 2010)

The ones I burn out with too much current & voltage. 

When working, all are liked!


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## NeSSuS-GTE (Oct 28, 2010)

I think its pretty safe to say that BridgeLux emitters aren't getting much love and have earned a spot in this thread.

I spent some time in early 2009 and developed this review on them and for the most part they got slammed pretty hard (at least for flashlight purposes). And I believe there was valid reasoning behind those thoughts.
Originally, I embraced the ingenuity of BridgeLux and appreciated that they were Made in America. But time has proven to me that flashlight use is simply outside of their intended scope.

Look at this bizarre result from Clint357's tests:



clint357 said:


> No reflector and good focus on the aspherical lens. You could see all 25 beams of light comming from the led...cool looking but useless.



:sick2::sick2::sick2::sick2:


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## Black Rose (Oct 28, 2010)

NeSSuS-GTE said:


> Look at this bizarre result from Clint357's tests:


That pic could probably resolve a lot of 209 Michigan UFO sightings


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## JohnR66 (Oct 29, 2010)

I like that Bridgelux "Waffle beam":naughty:

Anyhoo, I can't say I hate any emitter, but considering the date, obsolescence and the lights and emitters I have currently, I have to give the honor to the Luxeon I. The tint lottery ment you could get something ick, okay or nice. The efficiency is about 1/4th the best we have today and it was limited to 350ma drive.


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## MikeAusC (Oct 29, 2010)

NeSSuS-GTE said:


> I spent some time in early 2009 and developed this review on them and for the most part they got slammed pretty hard (at least for flashlight purposes). And I believe there was valid reasoning behind those thoughts.
> Originally, I embraced the ingenuity of BridgeLux and appreciated that they were Made in America. But time has proven to me that flashlight use is simply outside of their intended scope.


 
It's no worse than the Black Cross from an MCE/P7 in a torch - IF used incorrectly.

If sharply focussed, the MCE/P7 produce artefacts, but no-one here has disliked them for that.


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## PCC (Oct 31, 2010)

I dislike the Luxeon and Luxeon III emitters due to their relative inefficiency compared to more modern emitters. BITD, though, they were the bomb.

I dislike the P7 because of the gummy dome that attracts lint like a magnet and because it gave me quite a fit trying to get rid of the rediculous 5-arm donut hole. I ended up with a flooder. Maybe a Ledil Iris optic could have salvaged this? Maybe not?


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## jruser (Oct 31, 2010)

I also vote for the Nichia GS in the E01. Purple tint and oval hotspot.


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## Ray_of_Light (Oct 31, 2010)

The LuxV.
Downrated from 50.000 hrs lifetime to 500 from Lumileds, and only for portable applications.
It was delaminating after less than 100 hrs of operation at the max temperature specified on data sheet.
All brightest flashlights of the time (L2, L4...) used it.
Costed $ 40+ for an average bin. Most of them were of dreaded RCU green (don't ask about the acronim).

Second hated: the Nichia Rigel. Fenix used it in an AAA flashlight, I can't recall the model. It was low efficiency and bad tint, but extremely resistent to heat.

Regards

Anthony


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## BentHeadTX (Oct 31, 2010)

I had a Luxeon Q2L greenie... 

My other Luxeons looked much better so my mean greenie was used for outdoors use. 

As far as bad tint, multi-colored mess (green/brown/purple in the same LED) the Nichia GS! Luckily, it was in a Fenix E01 so not a major issue (the light cost less than I paid for the Q2L) 

I would of been livid if I bought an Arc AAA Premium with that garbage LED in it...and people paid EXTRA for it? Bwahahaha! 

For the record, I have two XP-G R5 flashlights, they have "largish reflectors in the Turbo and P20A2--nice and white but if you white wall hunt, you might see a touch of donut in the beam. Since both lights are generally used outdoors, not noticeable in actual use.


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## Burgess (Nov 1, 2010)

Ray_of_Light said:


> Second hated: the Nichia Rigel.
> Fenix used it in an AAA flashlight, I can't recall the model.


 


That would be the Fenix E1.


Yes indeed -- the Nichia Rigel emitter was "difficult to love".


:sick2:
_


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## degarb (Nov 1, 2010)

The lux 1's were great in 2004-2005, I believe. Yes. The fact that you still find them in alot of lights is horrific and sad.

I would say the golden dragon HL that I properly returned to store was the worst high powered emitter I've tried. I also disliked the lux 3 and lux 5 for going down in efficiency from lux 1. And disappointed most my 80 and 100 lumen/watt xr-e lights have less throw than my lux 1 (40 lumen per watt), except in one super deep smooth reflector inspection light and on one with a good lens columnator--neither have much spill. I also would say, I hate the 20 lumen per watt Rebels, for simply looking like high end led, while being something that should be melted down and recycled. I also don't like any led for flashlight use that needs an amp to get lit up, because, for me, usefulness is in the 5/10/20/40 hour runtimes. Lights for short durations are merely toys, unless you are chasing a fugitive or the like.

I -whose inner soul aches for a 150 to 200 otf lumen/watt led- am sad to read people hate the xp-g (donut holes are bad), unless from select light makers. 

I have two xr-c's, that have better tint than any of my xr-e's except the high def cree lamp. And the one 75 lumen, smooth reflector xr-c has spectacular throw-- at about 3 to 8 times any of my xr-e's.

I might conclude from reading this thread so far, that no one has complaints of the Rebel 100/120 or XP-E R2+ for flash light use. Other than that you can't crank enough amps through them.


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