# Durability & Functionality Compared to the Arc AAA?



## DarthLumen (Sep 29, 2007)

How does the MillerMod Arc AAA compare in functionality and durability to the traditional Arc AAA? I presume that the emitter is the main difference (naturally the body is the same) and wanted to know if it is rated as being "waterproof" or simply "dunkable"? 

Arc's are advertised as being built to excel in emergency situations (floods, hurricanes, etc.. So, I was just curious as to the functionality and anyone's experience. 

With that said, I have still placed an order for one of Eric's lights and there is NO question as to the quality and his reputation (Peter Gransee himself even complimented Eric's work!) Again, I was just curious.

Thanks.


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## THE_dAY (Sep 29, 2007)

the cree is potted in with epoxy, imo, it's just as durable and waterproof as the original.

the emitter is actually deeper in the reflector than the original so it's more protected.


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## Casual Flashlight User (Oct 2, 2007)

The only thing I can think of is that you would have to take a bit more care of the reflector due to it's polished nature. That said, a scratched reflector wouldn't be a problem in a genuine crisis.

My 2 stage MM Arc AA is just as reliable as my stock Arcs.


CFU


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## this_is_nascar (Oct 2, 2007)

In my opinion, more electronics and/or more moving parts = greater risk of failure. It doesn't matter if it's potted, re-potted or un-potted. It increases the risk of a failure. Over the years, I've personally owned dozens and dozen of Arc-AAA lights. Not one of them have ever failed, ever. Several months ago, I purchased a MillerMods AAA light that was unpredictable during firing. Granted, I bought it 2nd hand, however it still was not a reliable light. All that being siad, MillerMods got wind of my issue and offerred to take a look at it. He has fixed it and I should have it back any day now. The point is (and to answer the originator's question), that in my opinion the Arc-AAA is a more reliable light.


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## paulr (Oct 7, 2007)

For me, the main characteristic of the Arc AAA is that it's designed to run optimally on a specific battery type, the commodity AAA alkaline cell, which is unsuitable for use in more powerful lights. The Arc even works well on trashy zinc-carbon AAA cells. It lights up and works with cells that are practically dead and won't do anything in other devices. This is a valuable capability to have in a long power outage or the like, when you don't have a ready supply of fresh cells and have to use whatever you can get your hands on. The price of that capability is that it's a low powered light. You give it up by going to a higher power modification. Of course you gain a lot of lumens, and you might want those more.


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## alex in germany (Oct 8, 2007)

Hi,

i can´t compare both, because im waiting for a Miller Modded ARC AAA.
But for me it´s simple, get both  , the Original ARC for emergency situations, and the MillerMod for FUN:nana:

Sometimes the extra amount of light is very welcome.

If have been in Rome this summer, and we tryed to read a Plate in a tomb/mausoleum. I had a CR2Ion with me, but the floody light could not illumine the Plate.
Glad my Girlfriend had the Fenix L1P with her, the better Hotspot make us read the plate.

In situations like that the MillerMod is more functional, maybe Eric could tell about durability.

But we are flashaholics, we don´t need arguments to buy a new light...


Just my 2cents.


regards, Alex


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## this_is_nascar (Oct 8, 2007)

this_is_nascar said:


> In my opinion, more electronics and/or more moving parts = greater risk of failure. It doesn't matter if it's potted, re-potted or un-potted. It increases the risk of a failure. Over the years, I've personally owned dozens and dozen of Arc-AAA lights. Not one of them have ever failed, ever. Several months ago, I purchased a MillerMods AAA light that was unpredictable during firing. Granted, I bought it 2nd hand, however it still was not a reliable light. All that being siad, MillerMods got wind of my issue and offerred to take a look at it. He has fixed it and I should have it back any day now. The point is (and to answer the originator's question), that in my opinion the Arc-AAA is a more reliable light.



Kudos to MillerMods for repairing my light. It's not working as it should, however my stock Arc-AAA will still be the light that rides with me all the time.


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## coyote (Oct 23, 2007)

MIllerMods 2-stage versions do have extra contacts points which can get dirty and would need to be cleaned.

in the rare situation where this has actually occurred, i've found it's easy to fix it by simply running a stiff sheet of rough-finished paper back & forth between the contacts (which are hidden under the foam donut).

in my opinion, having Millermods two brightness levels easily offsets this fairly rare potential problem.

truth is that i've had contact problems with factory arcs and just about every other light i've ever owned. in the real world i'd say that no flashlight is immune to this problem. 

to answer your question - this is the only decrease in reliability in his lights that i've discovered. 

but i'm sold: the best edc light ever made is either a factory arc or a millermods. take your pick and enjoy!


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## paulr (Oct 23, 2007)

coyote said:


> truth is that i've had contact problems with factory arcs and just about every other light i've ever owned. in the real world i'd say that no flashlight is immune to this problem.



I wonder why this is. There are tens of millions of ordinary household light switches out there, switching a lot more power than any flashlight has to deal with, yet operating reliably dozens of times per day for decades on end. You'd think technology would have developed a flashlight by now with reliable contacts and switches. Flaky contacts in cheap flashlights is probably what sucked me into the world of high end flashlights in the first place. Anyway, maybe the electronically switched lights will end up working better. That would mean the Arc4/HDS/Novatac style light if you don't mind the complex UI, or the Spy 005 and the forthcoming new Arc LS that combine clean UI's with electronic switching.


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## coyote (Oct 24, 2007)

paulr said:


> I wonder why this is. There are tens of millions of ordinary household light switches out there, switching a lot more power than any flashlight has to deal with, yet operating reliably dozens of times per day for decades on end. You'd think technology would have developed a flashlight by now with reliable contacts and switches.....




yeah, you'd think, but i suspect there are other considerations involved in flashlights:

for example, many flashlights have Lead contacts that easily oxidize (which is why some companies are trying other materials, like Gold-plated contacts). both the Arc and Millermods have Lead contacts.

and then we put those contacts in enclosed tubes filled with battery gases from alkalines.

add a tiny bit of moisture that may have entered the battery holder and it's likely to eventually have problems.

and unlike 120V wall switches that when flicked somewhat clean themselves by the force of large parts snapping each other, our flashlight's tiny contacts don't usually rub enough to do that.

...at least that's how i've figured it.

thoughts?


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## nerdgineer (Oct 24, 2007)

paulr said:


> ...There are tens of millions of ordinary household light switches out there, switching a lot more power than any flashlight has to deal with, yet operating reliably dozens of times per day for decades on end...


A flashlight switch has to be very small compared to a household switch, and has other considerations which make it harder (still possible, of course) to be reliable. Think of the old Frankenstein's Lab knife switches, which are more reliable yet, but not because of any special tech, just because of their size and robust parts.

A side mounted (a la Maglite) button switch still has a fair amount of room, so making them momentary, high current , cheap, and reliable seems to have been done.

It's not that easy making them even smaller, cheaper, high current, momentary, and reliable. Surefire must not have found anything suitable when they designed their lights, or they wouldn't have gone and designed their own, no doubt at significant cost which must be recouped. 

One approach was to give up on the momentary (a la the early Fenixes), which seems to help - I get the feeling that the failure rate on reverse clickies is pretty low. It's only recently that the bulk manufacturers have come up with a cheap momentary tail clicky, which I hope is as reliable as the reverse clickies, but we'll just have to see.


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## MillerMods (Nov 11, 2008)

A couple of things to add. The light this_is_nascar had problems with was my Fenix LOP mod which was inherently problematic with contact issues more so than the MM Arc AAA. I don't make those anymore and I'm happy about that because they are difficult to build as well. 

I have discovered an issue with the stock Arc and my modded Arc with the grounding awhile back. The circuit is actually crimped by an aluminum edge around the driver which provides the ground to the driver. The way the factory pots the stock head sometimes puts epoxy between the driver and ground which cause intermittent issues. I don't pot with the same method and I tightly crimp at key points as well as the crimp all the way around the driver. This method seems to solve the grounding problem. 

As far as the contact getting dirty, this sometimes causes issues with the low setting but the high setting is basically immune. The pressure that the low setting applies to the contacts is much less than is applied on high.


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