# Surefire Invictus & Optimus - expectations



## Optik49 (May 24, 2008)

I spoke to customer service at Surefire today and was informed they are now going to release the Invictus before the Optimus. They stated they received so many calls on the Invictus, they decided to release it in June. Has anyone else heard this? I was holding out for the Invictus. Looks like its going to be a shorter wait.


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## cyberpunk (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Optik49 said:


> I spoke to customer service at Surefire today and was informed they are now going to release the Invictus before the Optimus. They stated they received so many calls on the Invictus, they decided to release it in June. Has anyone else heard this? I was holding out for the Invictus. Looks like its going to be a shorter wait.


 
Well - I (and my wallet) hope you are right, but based on how I feel about these two lights, I think this would be a marketing blunder for SureFire, if true.

I am certainly more interested in the Invictus than I am the Optimus - but I had already figured in my own mind that I was likely to get one of each of these lights primarily because I'm interested enough in the Optimus so to purchase one, but mostly because I am really terrible at delaying gratification and I'd get the Optimus since I couldn't really hold out for the Invictus, and then I'd get the Invictus as well.

However - reversing the release of these lights does not create the same situation for me! If the Invictus comes out first, I suspect I'll get it and be content enough so that it's much less assured that I'll end up with an Optimus, as well.

But of course, that's just me. I suspect SureFire could release these lights in either order and it would not impact sales much.


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## yaesumofo (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

If true IMHO this is too bad. I was looking forward to the optimus. 
I was really looking for the ability to adjust the beam from wide to tight. I love the ability to have 2 beams in my new McGizmo Lunasol. The OPtimus takes this concept to the bleeding edge. Personally I am not positive that the difference between 200 and 400 lumens is worth giving up the ability to adjust/focus the beam.

there are 11 settings between low to high. so in reality the invictus just adds one brightness level to the optimus and removes the ability to focus.

The UA2 IMHO is the most high tech flashlight in the pipeline today. with the invictus running a close second.

Both lights are too big for my style of EDC but one of the UA2 OPTIMUS WILL BECOME A REGULAR FIXTURE INSIDE MY BAILOUT BAG. (Current light in bailout bag is a elektrolumens blaster Nice light great runtime)
I will be waiting for the UA2 before succoming to the temptation to buy the INVICTUS. I just don't feel like I need that much power.... Call me crazy.
Yaesumofo


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## Gladius01 (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I hope it is June, Just can't wait to get Invictus.


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## Lightguy27 (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Does'nt really matter to me, I was going to get both anyway and with summer travel I appreciate the extra light.

-Evan


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## Optik49 (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

  I also thought it was odd from a marketing standpoint. I thought they were releasing the Optimus first then the Invictus because a lot of people would want to see what another 200 lumens will deliver and purchase the Invictus. Even thought I did not preorder a Optimus I immediately thought wow those people are not going to be happy. From what they were saying it sounds like the difference of a couple of months with both out by September. Lets see 1 Invictus, 1 E2DL and 1 Arc6. It looks like an expensive summer.


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## Crenshaw (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

interesting, all the people on the Optimus Pre-Orderare gonna be :hairpull:

Crenshaw


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## xcel730 (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Interesting. The order doesn't seem to make too much sense, but oh well. I was actually looking forward to the Optimus more than the Invictus. The optimus is $279, I wonder how much the Invictus is going to be.


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## Tempest UK (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Tempest UK said:


> I wouldn't hold out hope for the UB2 in July. UA2...perhaps.
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest



Oops...



Size15's said:


> It's a strange and wonderful thing is hope.


 
:devil:

Regards,
Tempest


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## FlashSpyJ (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Soon we can ask for BEAMSHOTS! 

Really hope the INVICTUS are going to be bright! And not to expansive...


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## Size15's (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*


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## tazambo (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

This is something that needs to be officially confirmed or not, as the case may be.

I've just ordered a E2DL, and will happily wait to have it shipped with a UB2 in June/July to save on postage.

I need to know......

Dave


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## WildChild (May 24, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

If it's true, I'm a happy camper because I was waiting for the Invictus!


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## Force Attuned (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Optik49 said:


> I spoke to customer service at Surefire today and was informed they are now going to release the Invictus before the Optimus. They stated they received so many calls on the Invictus, they decided to release it in June. Has anyone else heard this? I was holding out for the Invictus. Looks like its going to be a shorter wait.


 
I would have thought if this was the case that Surefire would have released pricing details in the Invictus...any word yet??


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## dandruff (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

doesnt make a difference to me except they'd BETTER NOT delay the release of the UA2. argh


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## Size15's (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



dandruff said:


> doesnt make a difference to me except they'd BETTER NOT delay the release of the UA2. argh


Is that the release date purported on CPF and by SureFire Dealers on CPF?

I don't recall the UA2 having a release date.
(which is why I found it strange that CPF and certain dealers seemed to expect it to be released as early as this summer)


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## Badbeams3 (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I wonder if the run time will be better on one than the other at 200 lumen. I hope the Invictus isn`t a batt hog...as the 400 lumen light will be my pick as opposed to the 200 lumen focus.

I hope the price of the Invictus is no more than the Optimus. Should be about the same cost to make as it leaves out the veri-beam technology and I don`t think the bulbs are much differant in cost.


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## Tempest UK (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Size15's said:


> Is that the release date purported on CPF and by SureFire Dealers on CPF?
> 
> I don't recall the UA2 having a release date.
> (which is why I found it strange that CPF and certain dealers seemed to expect it to be released as early as this summer)



Aren't the release dates a few of the dealers are offering provided to them by SureFire? At least that's the impression I got. Not that that makes them set in stone at this point, of course...

Regards,
Tempest


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## Size15's (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Tempest UK said:


> Aren't the release dates a few of the dealers are offering provided to them by SureFire? At least that's the impression I got. Not that that makes them set in stone at this point, of course...
> 
> Regards,
> Tempest


I don't know - something must have been very confused along the way because I was never given the impression the UA2 would be released before the UB2.


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## Tempest UK (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Ah well, as long as they get here. It's not as if I'm in desperate need of one until they arrive 

Regards,
Tempest


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## Badbeams3 (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Optik49 said:


> I also thought it was odd from a marketing standpoint. I thought they were releasing the Optimus first then the Invictus because a lot of people would want to see what another 200 lumens will deliver and purchase the Invictus. Even thought I did not preorder a Optimus I immediately thought wow those people are not going to be happy. From what they were saying it sounds like the difference of a couple of months with both out by September. Lets see 1 Invictus, 1 E2DL and 1 Arc6. It looks like an expensive summer.


 
I agree...doesn`t seem to make sense from a marketing point of view. First Optimus...then Invictus. And for christmas a focusing Invictus...would seem to be the better way to suck wallets empty.

But...just a thought...perhaps some other company might be on the verge of releasing a bright 400+ lumen light ...and sales could be lost. This part of the game has always been...well let me just say Surefire has never won before. 

The Optimus having the novel focus could be released at any time and still have at least some sales and if the focus goes over well...could be incorperated into other lights.


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## Size15's (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

The UB2 Invictus is a very bright light using an LED in a reflector.

The UA2 Optimus features a combination TIR optic and "Zoom Plate" lens to adjust the beam from 'spot' to 'flood'.

SureFire can do reflectors. For me it makes sense that they would need longer to perfect the technologies required for zoom focusing. This is all new and there is a lot resting on SureFire being able to pull this off (much of the hype was started by SureFire themselves). Not worth rushing things.

Al


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## werdnawee (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Size15's said:


> For me it makes sense that they would need longer to perfect the technologies required for zoom focusing. This is all new and there is a lot resting on SureFire being able to pull this off (much of the hype was started by SureFire themselves). Not worth rushing things.
> 
> Al


 
What about for the people (like me) who have already pre-ordered the Optimus expecting it to come out first (by all accounts)

If the Optimus WAS due out in June, right now (May), they should not be in the "perfect(ing) the technology" stage, they should be in the manufacturing/preparing to ship stage.


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## Numbers (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I had occasion to talk to SF CS a few weeks ago, after taking care of my business I asked the rep if the timing on the Optimus was still June. The response:
How long have you been buying SF's .....
Therefore I am not holding my breath.


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## Crenshaw (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Numbers said:


> I had occasion to talk to SF CS a few weeks ago, after taking care of my business I asked the rep if the timing on the Optimus was still June. The response:
> How long have you been buying SF's .....
> Therefore I am not holding my breath.



they DO have a sense of humor then...lol!

this is strange, size15s doesnt have anymore information on this one then we do...or does he? 

Crenshaw


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## Tempest UK (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



werdnawee said:


> What about for the people (like me) who have already pre-ordered the Optimus expecting it to come out first (by all accounts)
> 
> If the Optimus WAS due out in June, right now (May), they should not be in the "perfect(ing) the technology" stage, they should be in the manufacturing/preparing to ship stage.



Well even if SureFire have been giving "release dates" to dealers pointing to June for the UA2, that doesn't amount to an official release date that you should rely on. I don't think it's fair to say what SureFire should or should not be doing based on guesstimated release dates provided to dealers that were never released officially or publicly. 

Using Optics HQ as an example, their pre-order list only states "estimated availability" of the product. "Estimated" being the key word here. 

For all the excitement that release dates of new SureFires products may drum up for CPFers, myself included, all that we can really go by is "it'll be ready when it's ready" until an official announcement is made publicly.

Regards,
Tempest


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## Size15's (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



werdnawee said:


> What about for the people (like me) who have already pre-ordered the Optimus expecting it to come out first (by all accounts)
> 
> If the Optimus WAS due out in June, right now (May), they should not be in the "perfect(ing) the technology" stage, they should be in the manufacturing/preparing to ship stage.


As I said, I have no idea on what basis people became so convinced the UA2 even had a release date, let alone one in June.
Wishful thinking following an estimation...



Numbers said:


> I had occasion to talk to SF CS a few weeks ago, after taking care of my business I asked the rep if the timing on the Optimus was still June. The response:
> How long have you been buying SF's .....
> Therefore I am not holding my breath.


Well exactly! This is situation normal for SureFire - it always takes longer to release their new products than they and everybody else would like!


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## Optik49 (May 27, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Any new news?


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## 276 (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

well this is weird because i preordered a Optimus


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## ASG (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

For what its worth, I was at the National Rifle Association convention during May 16-18 and Surefire was there on hand. On display were all of there flashlights, including a standard current issue U2. I asked the rep when we could expect to see the UA2 and the UB2 and he said that they are working out some issues concerning them. They probably won't be out for at least another 4 months or so. He said to sign up on Surefire's e-mail list and they will e-mail the release date in advance. 

ASG


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## iapyx (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Size15's said:


> Is that the release date purported on CPF and by SureFire Dealers on CPF?
> 
> I don't recall the UA2 having a release date.
> (which is why I found it strange that CPF and certain dealers seemed to expect it to be released as early as this summer)


 

exactly, we cpf'ers get this info from some dealers.
The dealers say to get their info directly from Surefire.
Either SF is -or the dealers are- not giving the correct info.


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## Monocrom (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Optik49 said:


> I spoke to customer service at Surefire today and was informed they are now going to release the Invictus before the Optimus. They stated they received so many calls on the Invictus, they decided to release it in June. Has anyone else heard this? I was holding out for the Invictus. Looks like its going to be a shorter wait.


 
That's what I get for taking a couple of days off from CPF.

Almost missed the great news. Wonder if it has something to do with the Invictus making 400 lumens, max, out the front on 2xCR123s. 

Hmm..... Could be. :twothumbs


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## ttran97 (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Yay for the Invictus. 

Those of you waiting for the Optimus...just relax...it'll happen.


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## iapyx (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

eh, can I change my UA2 pre-order into a UB2 pre-order? 
guess not huh. :ironic:


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## ttran97 (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



iapyx said:


> eh, can I change my UA2 pre-order into a UB2 pre-order?
> guess not huh. :ironic:



Well, you had no interest in the UB2 so why would you want to change your preorder? What difference does it make? What if SF just delayed the UA2 till later, without moving up the UB2? Does that change anything?


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## iapyx (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



ttran97 said:


> Well, you had no interest in the UB2 so why would you want to change your preorder? What difference does it make? What if SF just delayed the UA2 till later, without moving up the UB2? Does that change anything?


 
Now who actually said I had no interest in the UB2?


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## ttran97 (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



iapyx said:


> Now who actually said I had no interest in the UB2?



Because if you had real interest in it, you would have pre-ordered both? But anyway...whatevs.


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## Size15's (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



iapyx said:


> exactly, we cpf'ers get this info from some dealers.
> The dealers say to get their info directly from Surefire.
> Either SF is -or the dealers are- not giving the correct info.


I'd chalk up to over-excitement, enthusiasm, eagerness to please and a good dose of confusion and misunderstanding.

What this has demonstrated [to me at least] is that once again 'release dates' are not to be trusted.

Al


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## curlyfry562 (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Size15's said:


> SureFire can do reflectors. For me it makes sense that they would need longer to perfect the technologies required for zoom focusing. This is all new and there is a lot resting on SureFire being able to pull this off (much of the hype was started by SureFire themselves). Not worth rushing things.
> 
> Al



I agree that makes the most sense if this rumor is true.


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## Qoose (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



ttran97 said:


> Because if you had real interest in it, you would have pre-ordered both? But anyway...whatevs.


 
Actually, I would like to preorder the Invictus. Only I'm not prepared to pay $99,999 for it at my favorite distributor. I'm curious if we are going to be seeing changes with everyone who started pre-orders for the UA2.


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## ttran97 (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Qoose said:


> Actually, I would like to preorder the Invictus. Only I'm not prepared to pay $99,999 for it at my favorite distributor. I'm curious if we are going to be seeing changes with everyone who started pre-orders for the UA2.



That's why you should preorder at my favorite distributor and pay nothing until it ships.


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## 276 (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Today i found out two things in an email from surefire they say the invictus will be out sometime end of July. I also called and was told something else where they said the invictus would be out end of august & the Optimus will be out end of Sept.


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## Badbeams3 (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Size15's said:


> I'd chalk up to over-excitement, enthusiasm, eagerness to please and a good dose of confusion and misunderstanding.
> 
> What this has demonstrated [to me at least] is that once again 'release dates' are not to be trusted.
> 
> Al


 

Lol...very well said Al...


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## Federal LG (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

In June ?
Another *Festivus* miracle!


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## GlockDoc (May 28, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I always forget, which is first, the 'Airing of Greivances' or 'Feats of Strength'?


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## Qoose (May 29, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



GlockDoc said:


> I always forget, which is first, the 'Airing of Greivances' or 'Feats of Strength'?


 
If I recall correctly, the Airing of Greivances is first. Fitting in this case.


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## NoFair (May 29, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

To quote SF technical support a while ago: "The UA2 wont be available unit late May"

Should be about time to hear something if there aren't any large delays...

Sverre


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## trailblazer (May 29, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I called Surefire today and made an attempt to order the UB2 Invictus I was told the target date was Aug. 30th (and subject to change) with no price available yet.


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## Force Attuned (May 29, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



trailblazer said:


> I called Surefire today and made an attempt to order the UB2 Invictus I was told the target date was Aug. 30th (and subject to change) with no price available yet.


 
Yep!! Still waiting for that all important pricing!!


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## GPB (May 30, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I know Surefire has a great reputation and all....but aren't you afraid of pre-ordering a light that is that cutting edge that it might not meet your expecations. I can see pre-ordering something that is a limited production run like the Titan, but once these come out, they will be readily available to anyone.....why not wait until some real folks give some real feedback on these lights before putting up such a sizeable chunk of change ? This is a light that is going to last for years......getting it a few months after its released seems like a small hardship to endure to make sure its what you want before you end up with a $300 light you don't like.

The other issue I have is that with LED technology really surging right now......I am less inclined to buy a quality durable light that can last for years because it may be obsolete in a year or two. Ever since I put all my 8-tracks onto 3.5" floppy discs I have been concerned about getting too hitched to a technology that may not stay at the forefront.


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## Crenshaw (May 30, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



GPB said:


> I know Surefire has a great reputation and all....but aren't you afraid of pre-ordering a light that is that cutting edge that it might not meet your expecations. I can see pre-ordering something that is a limited production run like the Titan, but once these come out, they will be readily available to anyone.....why not wait until some real folks give some real feedback on these lights before putting up such a sizeable chunk of change ? This is a light that is going to last for years......getting it a few months after its released seems like a small hardship to endure to make sure its what you want before you end up with a $300 light you don't like.
> 
> The other issue I have is that with LED technology really surging right now......I am less inclined to buy a quality durable light that can last for years because it may be obsolete in a year or two. Ever since I put all my 8-tracks onto 3.5" floppy discs I have been concerned about getting too hitched to a technology that may not stay at the forefront.



one word.....ARC

Crenshaw


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## Riddick (May 31, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

:thumbsup: Crenshaw

Quality is never a waste of time or money


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## Crenshaw (Jun 1, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Riddick said:


> :thumbsup: Crenshaw
> 
> Quality is never a waste of time or money



actually, i was refering to what he said about pre-ordering lights.....and its a reference to the current arc fiasco going on in the arc forums about the arc6....

Crenshaw


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## 276 (Jun 2, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

For know i will go back to buying knives while i wait


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I spoke to SureFire today to ask where my catalog is, that I ordered a few weeks ago. They are out of catalogs and have no plans to print any more. :mecry: 
While I had them on the phone, I asked about the Ua2. She said July, August or September. I forgot to ask about the Ub2.


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## FrogmanM (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

july, august september huh? well at least I get more time to save up!

Mayo


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## Optik49 (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News! :wave:

Hear is the latest directly from Surefire.

Release date for dealers on the Invictus is August 30th (No price yet):shakehead:hairpull:

Release date for dealers on the Optimus is September 30th (Price is still $279.00) 

I was also told “The Invictus price might be the same as the Optimus, maybe slightly more.” :thinking:

That’s all for now. This message will self destruct in 5.4.3.2.1.


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## xcel730 (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

This entire UA2 and UB2 process seems a little bit backwards, :thinking: but oh well. I was intially eyeing for the optimus, but I don't mind paying around the same for the invictus. 



Optik49 said:


> Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News! :wave:
> 
> Hear is the latest directly from Surefire.
> 
> ...


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## iapyx (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I am very interestd in the Invictus as well. However I'd really like to know the price (279 would be good news). Let's see if they make it both into 2008 otherwise the 2008 catalogue would be a bit(?) misleading.

One pro to the delay: shorter days, more chance of darkness.

O and runtimes runtimes runtimes! The UA2 will be ok I think, but what will the UB2 do on high. No one can tell yet, but the mind is curious.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



GPB said:


> I know Surefire has a great reputation and all....but aren't you afraid of pre-ordering a light that is that cutting edge that it might not meet your expecations. I can see pre-ordering something that is a limited production run like the Titan, but once these come out, they will be readily available to anyone.....why not wait until some real folks give some real feedback on these lights before putting up such a sizeable chunk of change ? This is a light that is going to last for years......getting it a few months after its released seems like a small hardship to endure to make sure its what you want before you end up with a $300 light you don't like.
> 
> The other issue I have is that with LED technology really surging right now......I am less inclined to buy a quality durable light that can last for years because it may be obsolete in a year or two. Ever since I put all my 8-tracks onto 3.5" floppy discs I have been concerned about getting too hitched to a technology that may not stay at the forefront.


If are concerned about obsolence, you might as well consider stop buying computers, media players, cell phones, TV sets, videogames, cars, etc...


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## FlashSpyJ (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Waiting this long for something makes me loose interest in it... If they had released it shortly after the shot show I would have owned one now, but now I have had the time to think it over, and what I have come up with is that I dont need either of the UB2 or the UA2... I probably will buy either if I strongly feel the need of either of them, but If they would have released them earlier I would have bought it without taking the time to think it over!

If they want to keep their impulsive buyers they have to start selling their new models earlier! 

When I saw the UB2 I thought to myself that I wouldnt buy any more light until the UB2 was released, but waiting for this light havent just got me not to buy any more lights until they release it, it has made me come to the conclusion that I really dont need a new light, nor do I want to buy a new light. The wait has decreased my interest in lights overall! The positive thing is that my wallet is happy as a Irish man on st patricks day....


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## Monocrom (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Flashlight Aficionado said:


> I spoke to SureFire today to ask where my catalog is, that I ordered a few weeks ago. They are out of catalogs and have no plans to print any more. :mecry:


 
Well, that explains why I never got the ones I requested. And no response either about the issue.

Not surprised though. :ironic:


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## Lightingguy321 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I would think SF is having a little more trouble with their "zoom plate" TIR system in the optimus and that is why it is going to be released later. However, that is still great news. The question is how back logged are orders going to be considering that many have already pre ordered at either battery junction or LA police gear.


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## Optik49 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

_Check out this link on the Invictus & Optimus. Photos and video! :thumbsup:_


http://tactical-photo.net/bbs/view.php?id=t_l&no=51


----------



## DM51 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Good find! You'd have thought the guy who was resourceful enough to get his hands on these 2 lights could have shot a better video, though.


----------



## CallMeDave (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I can count the rings on the Optimus beam all the way from here...


----------



## Size15's (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



DM51 said:


> Good find! You'd have thought the guy who was resourceful enough to get his hands on these 2 lights could have shot a better video, though.


I guess it depends on the circumstances.



CallMeDave said:


> I can count the rings on the Optimus beam all the way from here...


If you notice that UA2's serial number - it is one of the proto-type samples used at the SHOT Show 2008.
I have photos of that exact same one





And yes PK said that they weren't happy with the beam yet.


----------



## tazambo (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

It's winter downunder, right now.

I'm at the bottom of Australia, so I have access to 14 hours of darkness everyday.

3 - 4 more months wait (at I'd say a minimum) is just mean.

Regards
Dave


----------



## MrGman (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

totally useless videos. :thumbsdow:thumbsdow:thumbsdow:thumbsdow

the still photos were very good :twothumbs

I can wait


----------



## loszabo (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



MrGman said:


> the still photos were very good :twothumbs



I agree, great photos. But why did he publish those, if one shouldn't download them... When will people understand, that such pictures are simply stored in the IE cache???


----------



## iapyx (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



loszabo said:


> I agree, great photos. But why did he publish those, if one shouldn't download them... When will people understand, that such pictures are simply stored in the IE cache???


 
or try this: 'PrtScn' then open Paint or Photoshop (or equal) and paste (crtl v) et walla (voila if you prefer the original): une photo.
Just need some cropping, that's all.

i.


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

The videos weren't _totally_ useless. I did notice something interesting. The Optimus battery level indicator was blinking yellow/green. He then lowered the light level and it turned fully green. 

My two only thoughts were;
A: It is set for runtime of some sort, based on how much power is detected in the battery at the moment. On high, it is almost out, but on low it has plenty. I am curious how it would react to a rechargeable.

B: It is a glitch because it is using a formula that requires fresh batteries as the start of the equation. The the higher drain is added to the calculation, along with how long it has been on and it turns red. Why I call it a glitch? Bad word, but I want to use rechargeables and if it uses fresh 2x123s as a starting point, it would be very inaccurate with Li Ion. Another bad thing, _if this is how it does it_, you couldn't open the flashlight without resetting the timer.

Just to be clear, I LOVE flashlights, but I am a noob at how they work. So take my thoughts with a hand of salt (Not Mike :naughty: )


----------



## Hitthespot (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Flashlight Aficionado said:


> The Optimus battery level indicator was blinking yellow/green. He then lowered the light level and it turned fully green.
> 
> My two only thoughts were;
> A: It is set for runtime of some sort, based on how much power is detected in the battery at the moment. On high, it is almost out, but on low it has plenty. I am curious how it would react to a rechargeable.
> ...


 
There has been some minor discussion on how the battery meter works. There are some us, especially myself, who are looking forward to this features as much or more as any on the new light. I have so many lights that I really don't know at any given time what state of charge the batteries are in. I am hoping that the new U_2's will be my go to light and I will always know what state of charge there in. If this features works well it will be MY most welcomed feature on a new light!


Bill


----------



## Loomy (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Size15's said:


> I don't recall the UA2 having a release date.
> (which is why I found it strange that CPF and certain dealers seemed to expect it to be released as early as this summer)



That is easy to say now that there is word of a release date change. But where was this comment after the SHOT show when the early summer date was first being passed around? I find it hard to believe that this date was a mass delusion. These people must have heard the date from sources at Surefire just like the thread starter is hearing a new date right now.




Optik49 said:


> I spoke to customer service at Surefire today and was informed they are now going to release the Invictus before the Optimus. They stated they received so many calls on the Invictus, they decided to release it in June.




That sounds to me like a BS line. What more likely has happened is that one product is taking longer to finish than expected, and/or one is finished quicker. I have no trouble believing that the new quad die LED is ready sooner than expected, and I also have no trouble believing that the adjustable beam system is taking longer than expected. Both are cutting edge technologies and both have a big margin for unexpected outcomes.


----------



## dandruff (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Optik49 said:


> _Check out this link on the Invictus & Optimus. Photos and video! :thumbsup:_
> 
> 
> http://tactical-photo.net/bbs/view.php?id=t_l&no=51



cool find! something to help with the wait.

i am now a little unsure if i made the right choice in preordering a UA2. I dont mind the rings, but i guess i was hoping that the UA2 would be able to function as both a floody SF L4 and a throwing DBS/tiablo light. However from the video the difference in beam types from flood to throw didnt seem that great to my eyes. and the invictus looked awfully bright.

anyone thinking along the same lines? im worried!!!


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



dandruff said:


> However from the video the difference in beam types from flood to throw didnt seem that great to my eyes. and the invictus looked awfully bright.
> 
> anyone thinking along the same lines? im worried!!!



I am not worried.

Showing throw against the ground three feet away versus flood against the same ground three feet away tells me nothing.

If the Ub2 on full lit up a tree 100 yards away and the Ua2 on high with a tight focus, didn't, then I'd be worried.


----------



## fletch31 (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Those rings and beam look identical to my Inova TIR optic, just brighter. Hope they change that aspect of it. The body sure looks nice though.


----------



## NextLight (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Optik49 said:


> _Check out this link on the Invictus & Optimus. Photos and video! :thumbsup:_
> 
> 
> http://tactical-photo.net/bbs/view.php?id=t_l&no=51



Interesting how the Optimus reflection appears to be turned on...


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



NextLight said:


> Interesting how the Optimus reflection appears to be turned on...






Please explain.


----------



## Optik49 (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*


----------



## yaesumofo (Jun 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I also do not understand the concept of Preordering Surefire flashlights. They hold your dough or Who knows how long?
All for a light that you will be able to order and have delivered within a week of it's release.

Tell me what advantage does Preordering give you? Are you afraid that these will be in short supply? Historically this has never been an issue with Surefire products in a normal production. Both the UA2 and UB2 have been announced. and if they make it to dealers shelves it will be on a normal production basis from what I understand.
Yaesumofo





GPB said:


> I know Surefire has a great reputation and all....but aren't you afraid of pre-ordering a light that is that cutting edge that it might not meet your expectations. I can see pre-ordering something that is a limited production run like the Titan, but once these come out, they will be readily available to anyone.....why not wait until some real folks give some real feedback on these lights before putting up such a sizeable chunk of change ? This is a light that is going to last for years......getting it a few months after its released seems like a small hardship to endure to make sure its what you want before you end up with a $300 light you don't like.
> 
> The other issue I have is that with LED technology really surging right now......I am less inclined to buy a quality durable light that can last for years because it may be obsolete in a year or two. Ever since I put all my 8-tracks onto 3.5" floppy discs I have been concerned about getting too hitched to a technology that may not stay at the forefront.


----------



## yaesumofo (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

While some what interesting these videos are terrible.
How about just putting the light through it's paces in some organized fashion?
Instead they are quite random.

I would love to see a video demonstrating the low to high and the wide to tight. clearly and simple.
Unfortunately this video in the 2.5 minutes do not do this very well.
Yaesumofo





Optik49 said:


> _Check out this link on the Invictus & Optimus. Photos and video! :thumbsup:_
> 
> 
> http://tactical-photo.net/bbs/view.php?id=t_l&no=51


----------



## tazambo (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Pre-ordering will likely see one of these in your hands, days, weeks or even possibly months before you might otherwise lay your hands on one.
(see my reason why below)
You know what us crazy people are like.

A dealer might be slated to get 20 units in an initial release.
If they show Surefire they have pre orders for say, 70 units, they might get 80 delivered.

Also, if you're not lucky enough to live near a bricks and mortar store, or heaven forbid, live overseas.
As an example, a distributor in Australia still doesn't have the L1 cree in stock... Still not in stock, now, in June 08...

By the way, I would have thought that good businesses charge you only hours before your item is in the mail. Not weeks or months in advance. 

Regards
Dave


----------



## iapyx (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



yaesumofo said:


> I also do not understand the concept of Preordering Surefire flashlights. They hold your dough or Who knows how long?
> All for a light that you will be able to order and have delivered within a week of it's release.
> 
> Tell me what advantage does Preordering give you? Are you afraid that these will be in short supply? Historically this has never been an issue with Surefire products in a normal production. Both the UA2 and UB2 have been announced. and if they make it to dealers shelves it will be on a normal production basis from what I understand.
> Yaesumofo


 
Hi, yaesumofo,
I have pre-ordered a UA2. Saw it was possible and in an instant I decided to do the pre-order. That was a few months ago. Had I known (read the small letters) that I'd be charged at the moment of pre-order, then I'd never have pre-ordered. Can't blame the dealer since it says on the site that you'll be charged at the moment of pre-order although it's not really symphatic. I learned my lesson. Won't do a pre-order anymore unless charging takes place at the moment of shipping. 

btw, I am waiting now... for months.


----------



## Beamshot (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Monocrom


> Well, that explains why I never got the ones I requested. And no response either about the issue.
> 
> Not surprised though. :ironic:


I Think I have an extra one at home. PM me and I can probably send it out on Monday.


----------



## tazambo (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Deleted


----------



## Monocrom (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Beamshot said:


> I Think I have an extra one at home. PM me and I can probably send it out on Monday.


 
Hey, thanks for the kind gesture. :thanks:

But another CPFer was able to send me the catalogs as a PDF file. Thanks again, though.


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 7, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

So Beamshot, can I have the catalog?


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

you can download the pdf catalogs at surefire.com

If thats what you wanted


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

FlashSpyJ - I already did that. I wanted a paper catalog to look at; when I feel the urge, for bathroom reading material, to take with me to show others, to help me go to sleep.

:sweat: Do I have a flashlight problem? Nah, I can stop anytime I want to. After I get my paper SureFire catalog...... :sweat:


----------



## rmorgan84 (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Flashlight Aficionado said:


> FlashSpyJ - I already did that. I wanted a paper catalog to look at; when I feel the urge, for bathroom reading material, to take with me to show others, to help me go to sleep.
> 
> :sweat: Do I have a flashlight problem? Nah, I can stop anytime I want to. After I get my paper SureFire catalog...... :sweat:


 

Print the PDF on some nice matte 120g photo paper, job done.

If you wanted to get really adventurous you could even get some double sided semi gloss photo paper, duplex print it then get it binded!


----------



## Optik49 (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

:wave: Any new info out there? I need a fix.


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 13, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Optik49 said:


> :wave: Any new info out there? I need a fix.



They sent me both catalogs. So they must have a few left, or they printed more.

Other than that, I am in the same boat, looking for the flashlight-lighthouse as we approach the shore.


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Jun 19, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

 :candle:


----------



## Optik49 (Jul 3, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*


----------



## kdrocks (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

any news on the release date of these two most anticipated light from SF?


----------



## Size15's (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



kdrocks said:


> any news on the release date of these two most anticipated light from SF?


Nope, and no new news on the UA2 and UB2 either.


----------



## kdrocks (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Size15's said:


> Nope, and no new news on the UA2 and UB2 either.



Oh my. I just found out last week that SF is coming with these two.

And CPF forumers here have been talking about them since march (or is way before?)

Whtever it is,I'll be following this thread for their news.

Fingers crossed everyone?

Cheers,
kdrocks
p/s: SF lights will only be in my country 2 -3 months after its release. with the current flashlight community not so active, I doubt they will make UB/A2 available but I still have high hopes. Or else I might just ask any of you guys coming to Malaysia and bring one. :thumbsup:


----------



## Size15's (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



kdrocks said:


> And CPF forumers here have been talking about them since march (or is way before?)


SureFire showed off the proto-type UA2 at SHOT Show 2008 in February and it's only recently that an actual proto-type UB2 has been seen.


----------



## applevision (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Just heard about these today, late in the game... oh my goodness! I simply cannot wait. I have never even considered such an expensive light (well, I assume it will be pretty expensive compared to my current lights, seems like the estimate is around $280 or so), but reading the surefire catalog (which is gorgeous, BTW) lit my fire so to speak!!!

I totally agree that the Invictus will be the way to go for me. I have the Pelican 7060 which is a very nice light but nothing like this. The sheer power is intoxicating. 400 Lumens is no messing around, in what appears to be a tight, compact package, from the veritable Mercedes of flashlight companies. 

I had been lusting for a Tiablo A9 because I wanted a thrower... and I just pulled trigger on the Fenix TK11 (have yet to get it) but I think this will be "it" for a while at least... 

The sad part is that I live a simple life and have little true "use" for such tactical power... but I cannot resist! Such a magnificent blend of technology and art! Bravo, SureFire. From my understanding of the current flashlight market, you have really upped the game!

I cannot wait!


----------



## Tempest UK (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



applevision said:


> Such a magnificent blend of technology and art!



Well put 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## kdrocks (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



applevision said:


> Such a magnificent blend of technology and art!


 
Hear, hear~! :laughing:

kdrocks


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Jul 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I can't take it!! I am so looking forward to this flashlight and I keep seeing posts that bring up my hopes for real news and I get stuff like

 :candle: :bump:

Please, oh PLEASE stop posting about the optimus or invictus unless you have real news.

I am begging all of you.


----------



## 276 (Jul 7, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I agree


----------



## Metatron (Jul 12, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

just wondering lads, the invictus will or wont run on rcr123's?


----------



## Tempest UK (Jul 12, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Metatron said:


> just wondering lads, the invictus will or wont run on rcr123's?



A lot of people have asked this. There's really no way of knowing when the light hasn't been released and none of us have had the chance to find out. 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I saw a note on the LA Police Gear website about the Ua2 Optimus.



> Pre-Order Item - There is no definite ETA on this item as Surefire is experiencing a large military demand.



Reading between the lines, what does this mean? The Optimus is being made, but the military gets first shot or SureFire is too busy with military orders to finalize the product?


----------



## Size15's (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Flashlight Aficionado said:


> Reading between the lines, what does this mean? The Optimus is being made, but the military gets first shot or SureFire is too busy with military orders to finalize the product?


The 'military demand for SureFire products' appears solid information.
SureFire giving the military first bite at the UA2 is supposition and whilst I don't doubt this could happen, I believe it is far more likely that the military are ordering existing products such as the X300 and M600C etc. and SureFire is giving the US military the priority, I hope people can agree, it needs to command (that's if they have any choice - they may well be under contractual obligations to produce quantities of product within tight deadlines)
Certainly this would have SureFire remaining true to it's background and culture.


----------



## orcinus (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Metatron said:


> just wondering lads, the invictus will or wont run on rcr123's?



I seriously doubt it and the reason is rather stupid... The battery gauge.
I'm not sure if there's a (simple and easy to implement) way to automatically differentiate between a CR123 and RCR123 discharge curve. And since there hasn't been any indication so far you can manually select between the two... 

Just a hunch, though. :shrug:


----------



## toasterlocker (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Man, it is really getting to me there has been so little new information on these lights. I'm getting really sick of waiting!


----------



## 276 (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I agree with size15's


----------



## tebore (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



orcinus said:


> I seriously doubt it and the reason is rather stupid... The battery gauge.
> I'm not sure if there's a (simple and easy to implement) way to automatically differentiate between a CR123 and RCR123 discharge curve. And since there hasn't been any indication so far you can manually select between the two...
> 
> Just a hunch, though. :shrug:



Actually it's not that hard. You can take voltage as a method. That's how laptops do it. 

You just use 2 voltage scales one that checks for 4.2 starting and one for 3.2 starting. Well Something along those lines.


----------



## jag808808 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

ALCON,

The UA/B2 have been delayed for release. According to a manager friend at the federal sales department, release is slated for fourth quarter to 1st quarter next year. There seems to be more testing for the electronics of the lights. I too am disappointed in the delay but still looking forward. These seem to be THE lights to acquire. I often stare blankly at the PDF Surefire catalog at work...

Aloha,

jag

edit: There is a show here on the 26th. I am hoping to get a peek at one while Surefire is on the island. If they can sneak one away from R&D.


----------



## Mercaptan (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



jag808808 said:


> ALCON,
> edit: There is a show here on the 26th. I am hoping to get a peek at one while Surefire is on the island. If they can sneak one away from R&D.



Hey Jag, I just moved to Honolulu a few days ago, do you have any info about this show on the 26th?


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I dont know that much about the led it selves, but I wonder if there are going to be a led that is better than the ones in the invictus and optimus when theyre finally are released?


----------



## jag808808 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

It is on base. You will need to have military base privileges to attend. It is a tactical show for the federal vendors. I am not sure if this is an invite only attendance. Sorry. But, I will be damn sure to post pics if I get my hands on them. 

Aloha,

jag



Mercaptan said:


> Hey Jag, I just moved to Honolulu a few days ago, do you have any info about this show on the 26th?


----------



## orcinus (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



tebore said:


> Actually it's not that hard. You can take voltage as a method. That's how laptops do it.
> 
> You just use 2 voltage scales one that checks for 4.2 starting and one for 3.2 starting. Well Something along those lines.



Yeah, if you count on the cells always being full when you pop them in (curves can partially overlap). Besides, laptops usually rely on the "smart" circuitry in the battery itself.
I'm not saying it can't be done (or hasn't been done), just that it probably isn't that easy to do (esp. in a relatively "conservative" device, such as a flashlight).


----------



## tebore (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



orcinus said:


> Yeah, if you count on the cells always being full when you pop them in (curves can partially overlap). Besides, laptops usually rely on the "smart" circuitry in the battery itself.
> I'm not saying it can't be done (or hasn't been done), just that it probably isn't that easy to do (esp. in a relatively "conservative" device, such as a flashlight).



The Novatac uses this method to figure which cell is loaded. Either add cell detect step when loading the cells or just make cell detection automatic and instruct the user to only load full cells. 

The smart circuitry detects the cell voltage and reports run time according to a voltage scale. It's still an approximation. Some laptops Eg the Asus EEE use pure voltage detection to figure how much of the cell is drained.


----------



## orcinus (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



tebore said:


> The Novatac uses this method to figure which cell is loaded. Either add cell detect step when loading the cells or just make cell detection automatic and *instruct the user to only load full cells*.



This sounds like the easiest thing to do... (and is most probably implemented if the new Surefires support rechargables)



tebore said:


> The smart circuitry detects the cell voltage and reports run time according to a voltage scale.



Yes, but the important part here is, the circuitry is built into and calibrated for that very battery. In the case of a flashlight, the circuitry is independent of the battery.


----------



## TMedina (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



jag808808 said:


> It is on base. You will need to have military base privileges to attend. It is a tactical show for the federal vendors. I am not sure if this is an invite only attendance. Sorry. But, I will be damn sure to post pics if I get my hands on them.
> 
> Aloha,
> 
> jag



When are they gonna hit Fort Bragg? Aaaaargh.

-Trevor


----------



## jag808808 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Mercaptan,

Here is the information if you can get on base for the show.

Tuesday, August 26, 2008
MCBH Kaneohe Bay
Kahuna's Bar & Grill
0900-1500

ADS is hosting a show for the latest tactical gear. 



Mercaptan said:


> Hey Jag, I just moved to Honolulu a few days ago, do you have any info about this show on the 26th?


----------



## TMedina (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

This is the Army approach to Flashlights.

Although I keep forgetting there are other branches of the military. :nana:

-Trevor


----------



## TJx (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Just talked to SF Customer Service and they say September 15th for Optimus and end of year for Invictus.
Also end of October for AL Titan.
No prices yet.
Whether this means anything???


----------



## Bullzeyebill (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



TJx said:


> Just talked to SF Customer Service and they say September 15th for Optimus and end of year for Invictus.
> Also end of October for AL Titan.
> No prices yet.
> Whether this means anything???



If rumors are true, the pricing on the new lights will probably occur when the new 
SF price list comes out Sept 1.

Bill


----------



## iapyx (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

I'm not holding my breath...
Let's say it's better to not expect anything anymore this year. 
Then if it [the UA2] comes out earlier a huge smile will appear on my face.

iapyx


----------



## E__WOK (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



TJx said:


> Just talked to SF Customer Service and they say September 15th for Optimus and end of year for Invictus.
> Also end of October for AL Titan.
> No prices yet.
> Whether this means anything???



pricing is already out for the titan.


----------



## precisionworks (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

Door #1


> they decided to release it in June.




Door #2


> September 15th for Optimus




Door #3


> Let's say it's better to not expect anything anymore this year.




It's always Door #3 in Fountain Valley, CA


----------



## StandardBattery (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

It's now time to think about renaming this thread to _"Surefire Invictus & Optimus Wishes"_. It's pretty safe to say their won't be any *breaking news* this year. The specs, price, and delivery date can pretty much be considered subject-to-change. Was there a rumor of legal issues with the focusing?


----------



## CandlePowerForumsUser (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*

yeah, lets change the tread title. I keep getting tricked to come here in hopes of finding the latest "Breaking News!"


----------



## DM51 (Aug 20, 2008)

I have changed the title as I think it may be out of time for the OP to do it. I think "expectations" is perhaps now more suitable than "breaking news".


----------



## senna94 (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



precisionworks said:


> Door #1
> 
> 
> Door #2
> ...



+1 Surefire usually releases the lights introduced last years shot show during the current years shot show. A huge surprise and exception to that was the Backup.


----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



precisionworks said:


> Door #2
> September 15th for Optimus



Door number 2. PLEASE pick door #2


----------



## Monocrom (Aug 21, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



Flashlight Aficionado said:


> Door number 2. PLEASE pick door #2


 
Oh I'm very sorry, but we're going to have to ask you to please pick another door.... or you can have what's in the mystery box. 

Your answer please.


----------



## Optik49 (Aug 22, 2008)

Great photo. 

 I think it’s fair to say Surefire announced these lights way too early. I’m sure they are going to be great but it might be almost 09 before anyone has them.


----------



## applevision (Aug 22, 2008)

Killing me... How I long for my INVICTUS! :sigh:


----------



## KDOG3 (Sep 3, 2008)

*Any availability updates for the Optimus?*

I read in the dealer forum somewhere a while ago it won't come out till spring. Is that true? Anyone have any updated info?


----------



## loszabo (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*



KDOG3 said:


> I read in the dealer forum somewhere a while ago it won't come out till spring. Is that true? Anyone have any updated info?



I got the same "rumor" from an SureFire insider, who usually knows what he's talking about.


----------



## Tempest UK (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*

Unless SureFire make an official announcement then it's all just rumours and speculation. Given the track record of speculations of SureFire release dates being way off the mark, I prefer to just ignore it. 

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## iapyx (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*

better merge this thread with this one:

_(Moderator note: Thanks for the link - these threads are now merged & hookup deleted.)_


----------



## Taboot (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*

This long time period between the announcement of the UA2 and its' release has saved me a lot of money on lights. I've been holding on to my money (mostly), because I want one of these. There are probably a half dozen lights I would have bought by now if it weren't for the UA2.


----------



## iapyx (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*



Taboot said:


> This long time period between the announcement of the UA2 and its' release has saved me a lot of money on lights. I've been holding on to my money (mostly), because I want one of these. There are probably a half dozen lights I would have bought by now if it weren't for the UA2.


 
same here
but if it lasts much longer I consider buying a U2A [not to confuse with the UA2]


----------



## 276 (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*

For me this is the longest i have,had something on pre-order, I don't really care when the Invictus comes out just as long as the UA2 comes out this year!!


----------



## Size15's (Sep 5, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*



276 said:


> For me this is the longest i have,had something on pre-order, I don't really care when the Invictus comes out just as long as the UA2 comes out this year!!


I see the opportunity for the UA2 to be released this calendar year to have been and gone. I wouldn't even hope for by the end of this financial year


----------



## 276 (Sep 6, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*


----------



## 270winchester (Sep 7, 2008)

*Re: Any availability updates for the Optimus?*

ditto.

now I use my lights. Not a bad way to go since I already have "a few" Surefires around here.

really I'm not too sad about the delay. From the news of the U2A I may pick one of those up and call it a year.

(graduate school does a good job of taking my mind off of lights:naughty



Taboot said:


> This long time period between the announcement of the UA2 and its' release has saved me a lot of money on lights. I've been holding on to my money (mostly), because I want one of these. There are probably a half dozen lights I would have bought by now if it weren't for the UA2.


----------



## Patriot (Sep 7, 2008)

Big surprise :ironic: 

Such is the pace of this particular manufacturer. I suppose these are purely manufacturing and logistical delays since it seems the light has been fully developed for some time now.


----------



## Gadgetman7 (Sep 7, 2008)

I wonder if they have the optics ready. When I spoke to the Surefire rep at Bladeshow back in June he said that they weren't close to making the focus work like it should. Maybe they will have it ready by Shot Show in January.....


----------



## Gadgetman7 (Sep 7, 2008)

I wonder if they have the optics ready. When I spoke to the Surefire rep at Bladeshow back in June he said that they weren't close to making the focus work like it should. Maybe they will have it ready by Shot Show in January but I was hoping for a Christmas present. The Titan just doesn't interest me too much at the current price point. I hope the Invictus and Optimus aren't over $300 or I might have to pass on them too.


----------



## sORe-EyEz (Sep 7, 2008)

with the long wait, i wonder how many would eventually, get another light from SF or any light of another brand.

luckily i am not too tempted by either lights, such long wait would 'kill' me.:toilet:

made a recent purchase just before the SF's price increased, phew. :sweat:


----------



## FlashSpyJ (Sep 7, 2008)

Does anyone have a clue what runtime you can expect on the Invictus on high?

Could it be an hour? Or is it under half an hour?

I really these new SFs but I dont know if Im going to buy one if the runtime is under 30min on high...


----------



## Size15's (Sep 7, 2008)

I think that outputs and runtimes are still very much up in the air - both the UA2 and UB2 are concepts with very few proto-types.

I would not expect these things to be ironed out and nailed down at this stage.


----------



## iTorch (Sep 7, 2008)

I too was holding on to my pennies and my breath - now i am starting to turn blue, and I have seen a really nice Xm 18 flipper in Orange...


----------



## iapyx (Sep 13, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Invictus & Optimus Breaking News!*



TJx said:


> Just talked to SF Customer Service and they say September 15th for Optimus and end of year for Invictus.
> Also end of October for AL Titan.
> No prices yet.
> Whether this means anything???


 
So who's gonna check this thread this coming Monday (15th of Sept 2008 that is). Me? nah...


----------



## Hitthespot (Sep 13, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I think that outputs and runtimes are still very much up in the air - both the UA2 and UB2 are concepts with very few proto-types.
> 
> I would not expect these things to be ironed out and nailed down at this stage.


 
I expected to be holding one by now!

Bill


----------



## werdnawee (Sep 13, 2008)

Just wondering.....

The UA2 and UB2 was stated in the catalog as "New for 2008"

By all indications (and Size15's), they won't be out this year.

So would they appear in the 2009 catalog as "New for 2009"?

Only came out as a flashaholic this year and got my first SF in June (15 now and counting) so just wondering what has happened with other SF delays going into the following year.


----------



## qip (Sep 14, 2008)

light-reviews has it on upcoming reviews





.


----------



## bullfrog (Sep 14, 2008)




----------



## Flashlight Aficionado (Sep 14, 2008)

qip - Flashllight Reviews.com? If so, I couldn't find any teaser links.

Where? When? WE MUST KNOW!!


----------



## qip (Sep 14, 2008)

light-reviews.com

look to the right side of *upcoming reviews*


----------



## Eric242 (Sep 14, 2008)

...and Surefire has it in their 2008 catalouge. I´m pretty sure before we see a review on light-reviews.com we´ll see a review here on CPF. Whenever in 2009 that will be 

Eric


----------



## iapyx (Sep 14, 2008)

In general we are sceptical to see released at least one of these two lights in 2008. I would like quote Jack Palance since we see the end of the year approacing. In case you don't know Jack Palance: he was a famous actor who often played the bad guy in Westerns). Here's a link to imdb

In 1991 he finally got an Oscar for his role in City Slickers. When he received his Oscar somebody shouted:"He Curly, did you kill anybody today?" Jack replied:"The day isn't over yet."

Fellow cpf'ers: The year isn't over yet.


----------



## Monocrom (Sep 14, 2008)

Eric242 said:


> ...and Surefire has it in their 2008 catalouge. I´m pretty sure before we see a review on light-reviews.com we´ll see a review here on CPF. Whenever in 2009 that will be
> 
> Eric


 
Perhaps not. 

The guy in charge of Light-reviews sometimes gets Pre-production models to try out. I know because he had samples of Eagletac lights before they became available to the Public, at least here in America.


----------



## Eric242 (Sep 14, 2008)

Just think about Surefire´s and their light´s reputation compared to Eagletac. I don´t think Surefire will give out UA2s or UB2s for reviews. It´s just not necessary, people buy them nonetheless (the preorder lists on CPF are already long  ). 

Eric


----------



## Size15's (Sep 14, 2008)

Eric242 said:


> Just think about Surefire´s and their light´s reputation compared to Eagletac. I don´t think Surefire will give out UA2s or UB2s for reviews. It´s just not necessary, people buy them nonetheless (the preorder lists on CPF are already long  ).
> 
> Eric


SureFire certainly does send out items for reviews to all sorts of places - websites, consumer and industry organisations, magazines, tv shows.

Gaining a variety of opinions and feedback from a variety of sources helps build a picture of a product. Some reviews may take an interest in one aspect - for example runtimes; performing and producing charts. Another review may take an interest in the more practical aspect - for example ease of use by using it on a low-light training course etc.

I wonder whether the review website can track visitor statistics and determine whether particular reviews draw more interest then others?... 

Al


----------



## Eric242 (Sep 15, 2008)

Well, than I stand corrected. I just didn´t think they´d do.

Eric


----------



## Hendrikjansen (Sep 17, 2008)

*Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*

It's now official! The much anticipated Surefire UA2 Optimus and UB2 Invictus will not be available until the first quarter of 2009. 

Pricing on the UB2 is still not established but the UA2 remains the same at $279.00. 

Hopefully, this will be the last delay on these two new flashlights which have been plagued by release delays. 
In the meantime, checkout other great flashlights from Surefire. 

Why maybe the UA2 wil get the same price as the UB2, the UA2 can max 200 lumens and the UB2 max 400 ?


----------



## iapyx (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*

How do you know it's official?


----------



## Hendrikjansen (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*

I found this on edcitems.com, it was posted on August 28, 2008...


----------



## iapyx (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*



Hendrikjansen said:


> I found this on edcitems.com, it was posted on August 28, 2008...


 

That's not an official SF anouncement. I think it's better to wait till SF comes with an official anouncement e.g. on their website.


----------



## LED61 (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*

I´m not going to bash Surefire--I love their lights. But, it has a long history of advertising lights and most of them end up being released WELL after the announced date.
My God, knowing this why are they not more realistic about these dates ? I can understand a commercial aircraft being delayed months or years but flashlights ? Yet other business aircraft manufacturers are extremely reliable in their release dates and these go through a lot of air time testing and FAA certification and so on. 

My point is, why can´t Surefire do better on these release dates ?


----------



## Size15's (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*



LED61 said:


> My point is, why can´t Surefire do better on these release dates ?


I've always chalked it down as over enthusiasm...


----------



## LED61 (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*



Size15's said:


> I've always chalked it down as over enthusiasm...


 
Al, on whose part-- theirs or consumers ? The lights are in their 2008 catalog!!

To me, this only makes it harder for their dealers to sell existing similar lights. I don´t think it helps to sell existing stock knowing there soon will be something a lot better.


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## RlxdN10sity (Sep 18, 2008)

*SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*

I don't know how many of you may already know this, but I just got off the phone with a guy at Surefire asking him a few questions about the E2D pocket light and he let me know that around Jan. of 2009 they will be releasing a light called the Invictus that has I think he said 11 modes. Low output of like 2 lumens, hight output of 400 lumens and several settings in between and also SOS and strobe mode. Sounds awesome. Length is 7", weight w/ batts. 8oz. I wish I could pre-order it. I hope this is not old news to you flashaholics but I was so excited I had to tell someone.


----------



## Rossymeister (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*

A CS guy down at surefire told me that the T1A Titan was going to be released in july. I am betting that they dont know much more than we do.


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## RlxdN10sity (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*

Well, I am a noob, so I don't have reference for how accurate mfrs. release dates are. Still sounds like an awesome light though.


----------



## cryhavok (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*

Check out HERE for the pre-order


----------



## Tempest UK (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*



cryhavok said:


> Check out HERE for the pre-order



And here for the discussion.

Regards,
Tempest


----------



## Monocrom (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*



Size15's said:


> I've always chalked it down as over enthusiasm...


 
Maybe Surefire just likes to tease its customers.... Like the hot girl in High School who always wore skimpy outfits and refused to date any of her peers.


----------



## cernobila (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: Surefire Optimus and Invictus Flashlights Available 1st Quarter 2009*



Monocrom said:


> Maybe Surefire just likes to tease its customers.... Like the hot girl in High School who always wore skimpy outfits and refused to date any of her peers.



.....reminds me of the guy on the donkey dangling the carrot in front of the donkey to make him walk......in this case the rider is the SF marketing team, the carrot is the new light and the donkey is us here.


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## Taboot (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*

2109, right?


----------



## Size15's (Sep 18, 2008)

I think that those at SureFire can sometimes be a bit over enthusiastic and forget just how large an operation they've become. In the old days when they were an outfit making products out of what was almost a large proto-type shop they could be far more flexible compared to now when their production and manufacturing is a beast quite apart from the excitement of new product development, and marketing can grab a whole lot to get going with.

It would be easy if SureFire didn't have to mass-produce everything by the hundreds of thousands but they have commitments that make introducing new products very complicated, especially given they are already busy.

Al


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## DM51 (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*

There's another thread about this, as linked above by Tempest UK, so please continue there and I'll close this one.

Edit: LOL! While I was posting, Size15s merged the 2 threads!


----------



## Size15's (Sep 18, 2008)

Looks like I beat DM51 to it and merged the thread into the main "expectations" thread.


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## pjandyho (Sep 18, 2008)

Size15's said:


> It would be easy if SureFire didn't have to mass-produce everything by the hundreds of thousands but they have commitments that make introducing new products very complicated, especially given they are already busy.
> 
> Al


Well I am sorry Al, I absolutely can't buy this. As a company that sets a benchmark for the rest to follow, and I am talking about probably and maybe without arguments the best flashlight manufacturing company around, Surefire would have to come up with a new set of work flow that would set themselves in line with better and more efficient customer service. Having no one reply an email because they are busy, and failing to deliver a new product fast enough as advertised just don't cut it for me.

I have been a very dedicated Surefire guy for many years, collecting nothing but Surefire, but lately decided that enough is enough. I have been paying premium prices but I am not fully satisfied with the way that they are handling things. I am in Singapore, and air-time over the phone could cost. Why then is Surefire not replying my email when I report with something defective? This just can't do.


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## Rossymeister (Sep 18, 2008)

pjandyho said:


> I have been a very dedicated Surefire guy for many years, collecting nothing but Surefire, but lately decided that enough is enough. I have been paying premium prices but I am not fully satisfied with the way that they are handling things. I am in Singapore, and air-time over the phone could cost. Why then is Surefire not replying my email when I report with something defective? This just can't do.



I have also had similar results with the surefire email system. When reporting something defective, they would never reply. However when inquiring about the purchase of a product,I have had almost instant email gratification.

Puzzles Me.


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## Size15's (Sep 18, 2008)

pjandyho,
I find SureFire just as infuriating as everybody else. I've spent the last decade trying to understand it and offer my best interpretations and perspectives on what appears to be going on.

It has oft been said that if SureFire continues down the path it has been on it will surely end up paying the price.

I can't help worry that perhaps SureFire have missed too many opportunities then can be healthy for a market-leading business.

Al


----------



## dougie (Sep 18, 2008)

Al this is the first time I've ever read you say something that reflects what I suspect many are thinking. I really love Surefire products but don't hero worship them. Like any business they are just as likely to make the odd product which isn't all its supposed to be or fail their customers in some other way. 

In the past I've always considered you to be a bit too biased and close to Surefire to be objective but tonight you made a statement that makes me think you are not as blinkered as I thought you were.....LOL!:nana:.


----------



## cernobila (Sep 18, 2008)

I also have been a SF fan in the beginning and still have some SF products but this kind of carry on has lost me long ago......If I had a company that had expensive products, been late with product releases, didn’t answer customer concerns......I would expect to go out of business rather quickly......unless I had large contracts to fall back on. I am sure their large contracts are filled on time or very close to it.


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## Size15's (Sep 18, 2008)

I try to help people see SureFire from more a SureFire point of view as I've found this can help explain why they do what they do, and make the products they produce...
It doesn't mean that by my offering this perspective that I always agree with it.

However, 3V is something I believe CPF could do with discussing and exploring and it's sad not to see this aspect given attention. I understand it's difficult to keep the products out of a discussion about flashlights though and the CPF community is very product orientated.


----------



## GeneralTsao (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*

I guess my 2008 catalogue will still be valid for 2009, the 2009 print out will be some sort of crystal ball of 2010 and beyond. Surefire is the new king of vapor but so what i love their lights. I will just have to wait like the rest . The catalogue is not a promise of delivery or any bounding contract so surefire can take it's time. I just think that some people are overreacting to the delay, come on is a flashlight it'll be here when it is ready.


----------



## Optik49 (Sep 18, 2008)




----------



## TMedina (Sep 18, 2008)

I look at flashlights from a practical application standpoint, not necessarily the latest toy - so while I'm as curious as anyone else to get the specs, reviews and numbers for the latest releases, it doesn't mean I'm prepared to drop some $300 USD on a flashlight that doesn't offer a critical new feature lacking in my C2 + M60.

-Trevor


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## pjandyho (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*



GeneralTsao said:


> I guess my 2008 catalogue will still be valid for 2009, the 2009 print out will be some sort of crystal ball of 2010 and beyond. Surefire is the new king of vapor but so what i love their lights. I will just have to wait like the rest . The catalogue is not a promise of delivery or any bounding contract so surefire can take it's time. I just think that some people are overreacting to the delay, come on is a flashlight it'll be here when it is ready.


Well, in the hot wire era I could say so but noticed how Surefire had begun making all the lights available in LED version now? Non of the new lights released or are targeted for release are incandescent anymore. By the time they are ready with a new product I can't help feeling it would be way outdated.

Surefire IMHO, fail to be a leader anymore in terms of LED technology. Just take an example, I got myself an L1 beginning this year and barely a year had passed before it was made obsolete by my Nitecore D10, EX10, and Extreme. Now that Nitecore lights are going into the Golden Dragon Plus emitters, what is Surefire offering then?

I may be wrong but I hope someone will guide me if I am.


----------



## GeneralTsao (Sep 18, 2008)

*Re: SureFire - Invictus - coming out Jan. 09 !*



pjandyho said:


> Well, in the hot wire era I could say so but noticed how Surefire had begun making all the lights available in LED version now? Non of the new lights released or are targeted for release are incandescent anymore. By the time they are ready with a new product I can't help feeling it would be way outdated.
> 
> Surefire IMHO, fail to be a leader anymore in terms of LED technology. Just take an example, I got myself an L1 beginning this year and barely a year had passed before it was made obsolete by my Nitecore D10, EX10, and Extreme. Now that Nitecore lights are going into the Golden Dragon Plus emitters, what is Surefire offering then?
> 
> I may be wrong but I hope someone will guide me if I am.


 
If you have to have the latest and the greatest and like to play the game then surefire is probably not your light there are many choices out there. Different strokes for different folks. 
I happen to like surefire but in no way i feel that my light is less capable than others just because is not using the latest and brightest emitter. I still own my E2E and just as happy as a clam  and so my fenix L1T. 
Of course if i could chose i'd rather surefire release their optimus tomorrow but that won't happen and as consumer i am always a potential customer for other offerings so my money may or will go elsewhere


----------



## Monocrom (Sep 19, 2008)

I'm a *HUGE *fan of Surefire lights. But I'm far from being a fan of some of the company's business practices. 

It's unfortunate that for such a modern company, you have to call instead of e-mail in order to get a response regarding an issue with a possibly defective Surefire. For international customers, that's not exactly cheap.


----------



## Lightguy27 (Sep 29, 2008)

Well I was recently deciding on whether to pre order the UA2 or the T1A, and seeing as how the Military is extremely interested and taking up alot of the demand for the UA2 thus holding up it's release, I decided to ask. I have decided to pre order the T1A first, because I was told the UA2 is now being delayed till *early next year*. :shakehead


----------



## iapyx (Sep 30, 2008)

Oh well, saves me a lot of €€€€€€'s or $$$$$$'s if you like.
Seriously, I haven't spent a cent on flashlights from the moment I had a UA2 on pre-order. 

I guess it was not so smart of SF to anounce those lights (UA2 and UB2) in their 2008 catalogue and ShotShow 2008. Over-enthousiasm did Size15 call it. What will their competitors develope in the mean time? 

My pre-order was cancelled (by the retailer for shipping outside the US appeared to be not possible). I got a 2nd chance now to decide which of the two it's going to be. I'll wait for the beamshots now.


----------



## Taboot (Sep 30, 2008)

I don't know, but I suspect that enthusiasts represent a small portion of their sales. As such, their attention to the demands of the enthusiast market is probably not high on their list of priorities. This does not excuse poor customer service. However, it may explain their behavior in regards to product release dates and use of state-of-the-art components. The same can be said for Maglite. They are unresponsive to the enthusiast market, because they can afford to be. We would like Surefire and Maglite to be more like Fenix and Nitecore while still retaining the aspects we like about them as they are now. Companies like those have eaten into Surefire's enthusiast sales to be sure. However, we still buy their lights, so the effect is probably minimal and perhaps even unnoticed if their government and LE sales are on the rise. 

I'm bummed about not having a UA2 yet. However, I'll still get one once they come out.


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## Monocrom (Sep 30, 2008)

Surefire's main customer base is the Military, followed by the Asian Market. CPF has little, if any influence on what SF chooses to release.


----------



## iapyx (Sep 30, 2008)

Taboot said:


> I don't know, but I suspect that enthusiasts represent a small portion of their sales. As such, their attention to the demands of the enthusiast market is probably not high on their list of priorities. This does not excuse poor customer service. However, it may explain their behavior in regards to product release dates and use of state-of-the-art components. The same can be said for Maglite. They are unresponsive to the enthusiast market, because they can afford to be. We would like Surefire and Maglite to be more like Fenix and Nitecore while still retaining the aspects we like about them as they are now. Companies like those have eaten into Surefire's enthusiast sales to be sure. However, we still buy their lights, so the effect is probably minimal and perhaps even unnoticed if their government and LE sales are on the rise.
> 
> I'm bummed about not having a UA2 yet. However, I'll still get one once they come out.


 
You misunderstood me, and I wasn't clear about it. I meant over-enthousiasm on SF's part. At least that is what I read in Size15's words.
Oh well, it shows they're human


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## sheldonsmith (Oct 6, 2008)

*Surefire UA2 Optimus -When?*

Hi All,

I realize that I am late to the discussion, but any release news on the Surefire UA2 Optimus? 


Thanks,


-Sheldon*
*


----------



## Dead_Nuts (Oct 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire UA2 Optimus -When?*

:sleepy:


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 6, 2008)

*Re: Surefire UA2 Optimus -When?*



sheldonsmith said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I realize that I am late to the discussion, but any release news on the Surefire UA2 Optimus?
> 
> ...


 
:welcome:

And to answer your question.... Sadly, "no." Mostly likely, sometime in 2009.


----------



## Hondo_Lane (Oct 6, 2008)

I have been emailing Surefire customer service everday for the past 10 days. I am asking them on when they plan on releasing the Optimus. So far I have not received a single response. They have yet to acknowledge my existance. 
I can't find any official press release or news article that says 2009 as the release.

I hope to accomplish 2 things: 1) find out when the optimus will hit the retail street and 2) find out about Surefire's customer service and whether they care about their reputation.

Doesn't look good so far...


----------



## :)> (Oct 6, 2008)

Hondo_Lane said:


> They have yet to acknowledge my existance.
> 
> Doesn't look good so far...


 
Hondo_Lane,

I acknowledge that you exist. 

Welcome to CPF... stick around, go bankrupt and enjoy every minute of it.

Take care.


----------



## Monocrom (Oct 6, 2008)

Hondo_Lane said:


> I have been *emailing* Surefire customer service everday for the past 10 days. I am asking them on when they plan on releasing the Optimus. So far I have not received a single response. They have yet to acknowledge my existance.


 
Well that's where you made your mistake right there.... Surefire seems to like e-mails about as much as vampires like the Sun.

Pick up the phone and call Customer Service. Unlike e-mails, Surefire *does *respond to phone calls. But save your quarter if you want release dates. The best you'll get is an approximation from SF customer service.


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## Optik49 (Oct 6, 2008)

I wonder if anyone in the military has received one yet.

I wonder what they will put in the 2009 catalog. NEW: A ONE CELL LIGHT THAT PUTS OUT 600 LUMENS COMING IN 2030.


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## matt0 (Oct 6, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Surefire seems to like e-mails about as much as vampires like the Sun.



When I had a problem with a tailcap, I emailed them and received a response the same day and had a new tailcap 4 days later. :shrug:

Judging by the reports on CPF though, that's not normal behavior. I've read plenty of posts about SF never responding to emails.


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## Monocrom (Oct 6, 2008)

matt0 said:


> When I had a problem with a tailcap, I emailed them and received a response the same day and had a new tailcap 4 days later. :shrug:
> 
> Judging by the reports on CPF though, that's not normal behavior. I've read plenty of posts about SF never responding to emails.


 
Yup. I'd say you were one of the lucky ones.


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## CM (Oct 6, 2008)

:)> said:


> ...Welcome to CPF... stick around, go bankrupt and enjoy every minute of it.



That should be the new CPF motto!


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Oct 13, 2008)

Size 15's - You have dropped a few hints in other threads. Do you know something or are you just trying to tell us to "Stop watching the pot", it will be out when they are good and ready.

Speak-up, do you have some behind the scenes knowledge?


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## Size15's (Oct 13, 2008)

What I know is based on years of experience - this behaviour is normal for SureFire - there is no point waiting for SureFire to release something.
Who can say what SureFire will or won't do? Or when?
Nobody. Not even themselves it seems.

CPF is one of the best places to visit to learn about new products, including new products from SureFire.
Another method is to build a relationship with your friendly CPF-supporting SureFire Dealer who can give you the headsup about new products _once they get them in stock_. Only once I am actually able to purchase an in-stock product to I consider it to be released. Even then I don't believe it until I get the product in mine hands.

Al


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Oct 13, 2008)

:thanks: At least it's _not bad news_. Just wait and wait and wait to wait some more. When you are finished waiting, take a nap and then wait again.


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## Hondo_Lane (Oct 13, 2008)

After two weeks of no response to my emails, I called Surefire. They told me there is no set date for the release of the Optimus flashlight. They are shooting for the end of the year but they are not committing to a specific date. They couldn't give me a good answer on why they won't respond to me emails. I have sent them one a day, every day, for the last 2 weeks and have got jack squat in return. BUt I can confirm there is NO SET date for its release only they are "shooting for the end of the year". THe woman I spoke to, Cathy, seemed a little frustrated when I mentioned itwas in the 2008 catalog. I think she has gotten several calls like mine. She stuck to the company line...no set date...shooting fo rend of the year..nothing firm.


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## Size15's (Oct 13, 2008)

I hope you didn't use CPF in your communications with SureFire. It's behaviour like that that gives Flashaholics a bad name. :shakehead
Nothing constructive has come of it.


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## Hondo_Lane (Oct 13, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I hope you didn't use CPF in your communications with SureFire. It's behaviour like that that gives Flashaholics a bad name. :shakehead
> Nothing constructive has come of it.


 
What does that mean?


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## Size15's (Oct 13, 2008)

Hondo_Lane said:


> What does that mean?


Sending multiple emails to any company, organisation, group or individual is rude.
It didn't take long for us to inform you that email is not the most effective means of communicating with SureFire. Guess what? You found this out for yourself. The hard way.

It didn't take long for us to inform you that your expectations for a planned release date of the UA2 from SureFire were unrealistic. Guess what? You found this out for yourself. The hard way.

Your method for finding out 'about Surefire's customer service and whether they care about their reputation' was flawed. It has most likely confirmed that your approach to communicating with SureFire by sending multiple emails allowed SureFire to take a risk-based approach and give your individual customer inquiry a low-priority status. I can't see how you have given SureFire any reason to care what you think about them or their reputation.

From my perspective, I think the way SureFire handled your emails has increased their reputation.

Al


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## Dead_Nuts (Oct 13, 2008)

It could be that 1) Surefire is very much aware of which catalog these lights appeared in and 2) they don't want to say exactly why they don't respond to repetitious email.

Imagine that.


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## 276 (Oct 13, 2008)

I stopped waiting about 2 months ago when they come out they come out. In the mean time i just read the catalog over & over again.


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## Hondo_Lane (Oct 13, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Sending multiple emails to any company, organisation, group or individual is rude.
> It didn't take long for us to inform you that email is not the most effective means of communicating with SureFire. Guess what? You found this out for yourself. The hard way.
> 
> It didn't take long for us to inform you that your expectations for a planned release date of the UA2 from SureFire were unrealistic. Guess what? You found this out for yourself. The hard way.
> ...


 

It is interesting how quickly judgement gets passed these days.

I'm rude for sending repeat emails while Surefire is not rude when they do not answer emails? If surefire had answered my email I would stop inquiring. My emails were simple and respectful. My phone call was respectful. Yet I am the rude one???

You informed me email was not an effective way of communicating with Surefire?
I didn't realize you were an official agent of Surefire.
If Surefire did not want to be communicated with via email then why have one for customers?

I had unrealistic expectations on the release???
How do you know what my expectations are? That is why I contacted Surefire to find out what they should be. Its their product. Its in their 2008 catalog. I was curious if they would release it in 2008. Yet I have unrealistic expectations?

I think your self-rightousness has exceeded my expectations.


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## Size15's (Oct 13, 2008)

Hondo_Lane said:


> I'm rude for sending repeat emails while Surefire is not rude when they do not answer emails? If surefire had answered my email I would stop inquiring. My emails were simple and respectful. My phone call was respectful. Yet I am the rude one???


Your posting tone, so far, gives the impression that you wanted to test and antagonise SureFire. That along with the knowledge that email isn't the most effective means of communication with SureFire and you still continued leads me to conclude your actions were rude.

I do not condone SureFire's apparent reputation for responding to email. This has been a long-standing view held by CPF members. I believe we relucantly accept it recognising that finding the most effective means of communication so we can communicate is more valuable and productive than banging on about how poor they seem at responding to emails.



Hondo_Lane said:


> You informed me email was not an effective way of communicating with Surefire?


Not just me - it is a widely held view based on the experience of many members.



Hondo_Lane said:


> I didn't realize you were an official agent of Surefire.


I am not (never have been). My perspective comes from getting to know them and the products over the course of some 10 years. I am friends with Paul Kim, one of SureFire's Vice Presidents but being friends is far from formally representing a company.



Hondo_Lane said:


> If SureFire did not want to be communicated with via email then why have one for customers?


I don't think SureFire doesn't want to be contacted by email. I believe they try hard to ensure all forms of communication are responded to. Based on the feedback from CPF member it appears that email is something SureFire aren't as hot on compared to calling and speaking to them.



Hondo_Lane said:


> I had unrealistic expectations on the release???
> How do you know what my expectations are? That is why I contacted Surefire to find out what they should be. Its their product. Its in their 2008 catalog. I was curious if they would release it in 2008. Yet I have unrealistic expectations?


We have tried to explain why your expectations are unrealistic. Like pretty much everybody else we would prefer SureFire to release the new products they put in their catalogs in a more timely manner. Again, history shows that this sadly isn't normal for SureFire. There tends to be long delays with the expected release date put back again and again. Sometimes the new product is cancelled and never released.
We aren't happy with this but it is what it is. SureFire would seem not to suffer adversely from this behaviour but of course we have no way of knowing.
People on CPF appear to give up waiting and buy products from alternative manufacturers. This much is clear.

I'm sorry that your first posts here on CPF haven't been the easiest.

Al


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## BytorJr (Oct 13, 2008)

Good grief!!!!!!!!!

I will say that Surefire does continuously seem to miss release dates for stuff they put in catalogs; but hey, if you want something else as good, well good luck. I do think Surefire would best be served by NOT putting expectations in that cannot be met.


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## Size15's (Oct 13, 2008)

BytorJr said:


> I do think Surefire would best be served by NOT putting expectations in that cannot be met.


They tried that for a while - though I get the impression they get excited, over-enthusiastic and can't help themselves.


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## Monocrom (Oct 13, 2008)

Right now, my only expectation is that the UB2 gets released by early 2009. (Perhaps in time for my Birthday in January). I'm being hopeful. Got my one and only SF M6 on my Birthday this year, would be a hoot to follow up with a UB2. 

As for Surefire, it's like dating the ladies. Each one is different. One is a better cook than the others, one is prettier than the others, one does a better job at keeping the house clean, etc.

..... And each one has her own issues. Just like Surefire.

On the *+* side, you get high-quality products that are likely to outlive you. You get support that you can count on for years down the road. (10 years down the road, when the tailcap breaks on your favorite Made-in-China light; will that company be there to sell you a new one? Not likely). 

On the *- *side, you get typical poor response or no response to e-mails. (Not every time, but enough to the point that it's consistantly an issue). Some questionable Marketing practices. And recently, another price hike with no product improvements. 

That's just how it is with Surefire. And, just as with the ladies, you either learn to live with the minuses or you decide you can't, and find someone else to date.


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## Hondo_Lane (Oct 13, 2008)

"Men willingly believe what they wish". - Julius Ceasar


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## Monocrom (Oct 13, 2008)

Hondo_Lane said:


> "Men willingly believe what they wish". - Julius Ceasar


 
Poor Julius believed he was loved by his friend Brutus.


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## Hitthespot (Oct 13, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Poor Julius believed he was loved by his friend Brutus.


 
"upon seeing Brutus was with the conspirators, he covered his face with his toga and resigned himself to his fate".

Back on topic; I Wish they would at least give us a fairly accurate guess on when they will be released. Then we would at least know when to have the money ready.

Bill


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## bullfrog (Oct 13, 2008)

In the spirit of these classical posts, I propose the thread title be changed to:

"Re: Svrefire Invictvs & Optimvs - expectations"


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## Monocrom (Oct 13, 2008)

Hitthespot said:


> .... I Wish they would at least give us a fairly accurate guess on when they will be released. Then we would at least know when to have the money ready.
> 
> Bill


 
I'll go out on a limb, and say that even Surefire doesn't have a good idea as to *when. *


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## Size15's (Oct 13, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> I'll go out on a limb, and say that even Surefire doesn't have a good idea as to *when. *


That's not such a leap IMHO :sigh:


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## Hitthespot (Oct 13, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> I'll go out on a limb, and say that even Surefire doesn't have a good idea as to *when. *


 
Your right, I think I will just wait on Optimus Plus and Invicta Plus, UA2P and UB2P, 600 and 1000 lumens. They will probably show them at the 2009 shot show.........................

..........of course they will never be released. Only Prototpes will be made. lol

Bill


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## Monocrom (Oct 13, 2008)

Size15's said:


> That's not such a leap IMHO :sigh:


 
Coming from you, I feel a bit more depressed than if anyone else had agreed with me.


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## Kiessling (Oct 13, 2008)

Good news: They released the U2A to make the waiting somewhat easier. And this one doesn't have the annoying strobe BS.
bernie


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## Optik49 (Oct 13, 2008)

:huh2::thinking:


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## CallMeDave (Oct 13, 2008)

Hondo_Lane said:


> I have sent them one a day, every day, for the last 2 weeks and have got jack squat in return.
> I'm rude for sending repeat emails while Surefire is not rude when they do not answer emails?



Yes.

This has been tonight's installment of simple answers to simple questions.


Dave


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## Monocrom (Oct 13, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> Good news: They released the U2A to make the waiting somewhat easier. And this one doesn't have the annoying strobe BS.
> bernie


 
You know.... just for a second there.... I got _real _excited. And then I noticed that the "2" and the "A" were in the wrong spot. I'm guessing not a typo.

I want 400 lumens! Out the front! Not a U2 with a Seoul P4.


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## Hondo_Lane (Oct 13, 2008)

CallMeDave said:


> Yes.
> 
> This has been tonight's installment of simple answers to simple questions.
> 
> ...


 

I didn't realize emailing Surefire's customer service about Surefire product's was such a mortal sin around here. Lesson learned...

Since its so unfriendly around here, I simply leave you all to it.


""It is far better to be alone than to be in bad company." -George Washington


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## AlecGold (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm really looking forward to the EA2 but in the mean time I've settled with the E1B. 

So far I've never seen Surefire build any vapor ware, but it can take a while before the product has landed in the palm of my hand. 
IIRC the U2 had the same thing going, and there where some other lights that where very exciting but did take some while to get to the dealer. 

IMHO it's just like Size15 says, they get all happy and jumpy about their new lights and things and cant stop yelping about it. 

Mind you, I think it is favorable to the Apple aprouch. How much I do like some of Apple's products, the problem is that this day there will be new laptops. Everybody thinks, but no-one knows for sure what they are gonna pull. So I might be the low/non-informed customer, buying a new laptop for 100% of the MRSP and tomorrow there may be a new line with better specs and a better price in the store. 

If you compare that to SF: you can save your money, get some budget for a new light, just like I do with the UA2 right now. 
I don't mind if it takes another month or so, just gives me time to save the dimes and nickels and get to that $279 or whatever the price will be. 

Last thing about SF is that they promised in their 2008 catalogue to only use the best parts and especial the best leds. We all know that the best leds are not easy to produce, so it could be easily the case that the right leds are not available yet. Or only at an absurd premium. 
That idea, combined with the fact that a shortage of new introduced products is very rare with SF. When you try to buy a iPhone 3G after it's launch you had another surprise coming: there was a 3 weeks waiting time. So you had to sign a contract for 2 years, but you wouldn't walk out the store with the appropriate phone. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I haven't seen that in a while with SF. 

Bottom line: do I want an UA2? hell yess, and if it is here today, nice! But a lot of people here are annoying up to a level of plain infantile. You don't want it tomorrow, or next month, you want to open your christmas presents today. 
If you need a new light (like most of us don't have 3 or 5 or 50 lights), buy a new one. The E1B is very good for my EDC needs. the Nautilus is even perfect for 5th pocket and there are dozen of choices for new 2 battery lights, if your current light is broken/lost/etc.


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## Dr_Joe (Oct 31, 2008)

OK, just to add a little more fuel to the paranoia fire, I heard that the Optimus won't be released till the first quarter of 2009, and that there will be a price increase from the originally quoted $279.00

_However_, dealers who already placed their orders will get the lower (wholesale) price for their first shipment and be able to sell them for $279.00 (retail)

:thinking: So should we seek out those dealers now and pre-order/pre-pay before the price increase ?


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## LukeA (Oct 31, 2008)

AlecGold said:


> Mind you, I think it is favorable to the Apple aprouch. How much I do like some of Apple's products, the problem is that this day there will be new laptops. Everybody thinks, but no-one knows for sure what they are gonna pull. So I might be the low/non-informed customer, buying a new laptop for 100% of the MRSP and tomorrow there may be a new line with better specs and a better price in the store.



You mean 15 days. If you buy a Mac two weeks or less before it gets replaced in the lineup you can get the difference back.


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## 276 (Nov 1, 2008)

Dr_Joe said:


> OK, just to add a little more fuel to the paranoia fire, I heard that the Optimus won't be released till the first quarter of 2009, and that there will be a price increase from the originally quoted $279.00
> 
> _However_, dealers who already placed their orders will get the lower (wholesale) price for their first shipment and be able to sell them for $279.00 (retail)
> 
> :thinking: So should we seek out those dealers now and pre-order/pre-pay before the price increase ?



I heard that too but luckily i pre-ordered mine almost a year ago, not knowing it would be a year.


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## Monocrom (Nov 1, 2008)

Screw it! I know that Scott can take a Surefire light and make it spit out 400 lumens.

Just like Gene makes an LED drop-in that you can use *now!.... *Instead of waiting for Surefire to release the P61L.

I'm going to start saving up my money now. And when I have enough, I'll send it to Scott for a 400 lumen Surefire light. Chances are, everyone else will still be waiting for the UB2....

"Is it ready yet?"


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## tebore (Nov 1, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Screw it! I know that Scott can take a Surefire light and make it spit out 400 lumens.
> 
> Just like Gene makes an LED drop-in that you can use *now!.... *Instead of waiting for Surefire to release the P61L.
> 
> ...



Well said. Just take a current U2 (not that P4 one) have some one pop a MC-E in it and it's ready to go and it's got a better LED than the lights SF prototyped


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## Monocrom (Nov 1, 2008)

tebore said:


> Well said. Just take a current U2 (not that P4 one) have some one pop a MC-E in it and it's ready to go and it's got a better LED than the lights SF prototyped


 
If you prefer bezel-up carry, Scott can turn an L2 into a 400 lumen Champ.


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## werdnawee (Nov 2, 2008)

I had an Optimus pre-ordered and paid for in May but it was cancelled in August as the retailer couldn't ship overseas.

I now see this as a good thing because now I can wait for it to come out and read all the reviews before I purchase.

My expectation (wishful thinking?) is that the Optimus will throw like my DBS V2 and then with a quick twist, flood like my Milky U2by2. 
(or something close to it)

If it doesn't have that versatility, then I don't really see the point. 

Depending on the reviews, I would then shift to the Invictus, or see what the 2009 catalogue items have to offer, for 2010.


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## sims2k (Nov 3, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> If you prefer bezel-up carry, Scott can turn an L2 into a 400 lumen Champ.



I do..and I would love to turn my SF L2 into a 400 lumen champ. More info please..


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## Monocrom (Nov 3, 2008)

sims2k said:


> I do..and I would love to turn my SF L2 into a 400 lumen champ. More info please..


 
Check out the link below. 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/211483


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## AggiePhil (Nov 12, 2008)

An acquaintance of mine is a Surefire Rep and he told me several weeks ago that the Optimus and/or Invictus will not be coming out after all. Apparently Surefire had problems making the design work properly and is going to have to scrap/totally rework the entire project. He made it clear to me that Surefire is essentially not going to be offering these lights. Fairly embarrassing since they clearly jumped the gun by marketing the lights before they were ready for mass production. I believe that in the IT world they refer to that as "vaporware". Anyhow, also sucks for all those people who placed pre-orders for the lights. I guess the Gladius and Fenix lights are still the only viable offerings for those who want a strobe feature.


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## DM51 (Nov 12, 2008)

AggiePhil... that is interesting to hear, but it was not necessary to cross-post it in the other thread too, so I've deleted it there. People will pick up on it soon enough.


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## LightKnife (Nov 12, 2008)

AggiePhil said:


> An acquaintance of mine is a Surefire Rep and he told me several weeks ago that the Optimus and/or Invictus will not be coming out after all. Apparently Surefire had problems making the design work properly and is going to have to scrap/totally rework the entire project. He made it clear to me that Surefire is essentially not going to be offering these lights. Fairly embarrassing since they clearly jumped the gun by marketing the lights before they were ready for mass production. I believe that in the IT world they refer to that as "vaporware". Anyhow, also sucks for all those people who placed pre-orders for the lights. I guess the Gladius and Fenix lights are still the only viable offerings for those who want a strobe feature.


 
Wow is really sad news if the statement above is true, but life goes on and more interesting lights will come in 2009.


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## vb14 (Nov 12, 2008)

AggiePhil said:


> An acquaintance of mine is a Surefire Rep and he told me several weeks ago that the Optimus and/or Invictus will not be coming out after all. Apparently Surefire had problems making the design work properly and is going to have to scrap/totally rework the entire project. He made it clear to me that Surefire is essentially not going to be offering these lights. Fairly embarrassing since they clearly jumped the gun by marketing the lights before they were ready for mass production. I believe that in the IT world they refer to that as "vaporware". Anyhow, also sucks for all those people who placed pre-orders for the lights. I guess the Gladius and Fenix lights are still the only viable offerings for those who want a strobe feature.


 
Now that is a real bummer. I've been trying not to buy lights as much as I used to while I wait for this.


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## 2000xlt (Nov 12, 2008)

MAN that is a bummer, i was recently looking for updates on the release date.


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## Optik49 (Nov 12, 2008)

DON’T panic. I was in Bass Pro Shop the other day and they were told, they are still getting them in. The manager said he was given a prototype to play with. He said maybe even before 2009 (But I doubt that). He was saying, the prototype he has also has 3 small different colored leds. Again, not sure about that one either. I just can’t believe they would scrap the entire project of their flagship lights now. I think if this was the case we would be hearing from some of the Surefire dealers here.


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## mudman cj (Nov 12, 2008)

I believe the three different colored LEDs would be part of the battery gauge.


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## Splunk_Au (Nov 12, 2008)

I don't think SF would scap a light which they already included in their catalogue which was given out during several events in the past months.

Doesn't make sense they a manufacturer with such history would make such a mistake regarding manufacturing processes.


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## brighterisbetter (Nov 12, 2008)

Optik49 said:


> The manager said he was given a prototype to play with.


Same thing with me. I recently inquired Surefire about becoming a dealer, so they sent a rep to speak with me. He had a huge folding cloth-type case with every light in Surefire's current product offering for demo purposes. One of the lights was an Optimus proto which sadly was non-operational. I believe I was told that at one time it had worked, but some [email protected]*% screwed the wrong tailcap back on, cross-threaded the body to the point of seizure, and messed the electronics up in the process. This was about 5 weeks ago, and both the Optimus and Invictus were a scheduled 'go' at that time.


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## Crenshaw (Nov 12, 2008)

wonder is size15s has got anything to say about this....it WOULD be sad considering the invictus would really bring surefires up to spec with the led insane-lumen game.


Crenshaw


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## Monocrom (Nov 12, 2008)

Splunk_Au said:


> Doesn't make sense they a manufacturer with such history would make such a mistake regarding manufacturing processes.


 
With Surefire's track record, it's possible. Remember several months back when customers were getting DOA U2 models, or U2s that worked for a few clicks and then died. 

It's possible. But hopefully the entire project hasn't been abandonded. If it has, I predict Scott is going to be a _very _busy man in the upcoming months.


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## Size15's (Nov 12, 2008)

I think that SureFire were over-enthusiastic about the prospect of new products such as the UA2 and UB2. Delivering a product suitable for mass-production on the scale SureFire operates has tended to interfere with the excitement of various departments: Engineering can dream things up and make proto-types. Marketing can spread the word. Sales can drum up orders.

I believe that Production needing to ensure the product is ready for mass-production is not a check & balance worth messing with.
Even once the product is ready it still needs to be scheduled into the process of manufacture and assembly (etc).

I have had no expectation of delivery of these or any other concepts from SureFire. Right from the start when I first got to hear about them. Nothing anybody at SureFire has told me since has encouraged me to do otherwise.

From a selfish perspective I would prefer SureFire shelved the UA2 and UB2 and turned their concentration on several other concepts that seem to me to be easier to produce.

However, trying to see the big picture I do think it's important that SureFire do have something like the UA2/UB2 concept as a flagship in the next year or so.
It was almost 10 years ago when they launched the Millennium Series and updated a whole host of products. I would like them to be on track to have a fitting range of products for the next decade.

Al


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## vb14 (Nov 12, 2008)

I just emailed surefire about post #248 and asked if it's true. This is the reply I got.

_That’s false. There have been issues that we are displeased with, and have yet to be 100% ready to launch. The projects are still active and scheduled to release early next year.

_
So hope is not totally lost...


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## AggiePhil (Nov 12, 2008)

Trust me, I as much as anybody (save maybe for those who have already placed pre-orders) want these lights to become a reality. I always get the two confused but one of these lights was going to fit with my job as a Police Officer wonderfully. And just for the record, I suppose it is always possible that the information I received wasn't 100% correct. HOWEVER, I was told that firsthand by a Surefire Rep, so I imagine there's some [if not a lot of] truth to it. He said unequivocally that either one or both of the proposed lights (sorry, I can't remember if he said both the Invictus and Optimus or just one or the other) wasn't going to be produced because Surefire couldn't get it to work right. So...I guess only time will tell but I wanted to give a heads up, especially for those of you who have already placed pre-orders and anyone who was considering placing a pre-order. Hope that helps.


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## MattK (Nov 12, 2008)

I have contacted every Surefire source that I have and all have told me that this rumor is incorrect. The UA2 is going to be made but it will not be released until they are 100% satisifed with it.


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## Dead_Nuts (Nov 12, 2008)

Well, that settles it then . . . right?


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## AggiePhil (Nov 12, 2008)

MattK said:


> I have contacted every Surefire source that I have and all have told me that this rumor is incorrect. The UA2 is going to be made but it will not be released until they are 100% satisifed with it.


And what about the other one they announced forever ago? Like I said, my source told me that either one or both of them wouldn't be coming out. Perhaps the UA2 will be a go but the other one has been scrapped.


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## MattK (Nov 12, 2008)

No further news on the UB2 but the UA2 is confirmed as still a go.


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## mudman cj (Nov 12, 2008)

If they did scrap the UB2, I hope it is because they decided they would rather redesign it to use a Cree MC-E 5A wired 2S2P or all series.


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## bullfrog (Nov 12, 2008)

Just called Surefire and asked them - they said that they are still planning on releasing both models at this point but they still don't have a set date.

She said straight out that they have not scrapped either of these lights.

She laughed and said they've been getting a lot of calls about this today


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## Fooboy (Nov 12, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> Just called Surefire and asked them - they said that they are still planning on releasing both models at this point but they still don't have a set date.
> 
> She said straight out that they have not scrapped either of these lights.
> 
> She laughed and said they've been getting a lot of calls about this today



I believe that is the "CPF effect".


----------



## applevision (Nov 12, 2008)

I hope it is a false rumor. I've been waiting for my Invictus forever...


----------



## 276 (Nov 12, 2008)

bullfrog said:


> Just called Surefire and asked them - they said that they are still planning on releasing both models at this point but they still don't have a set date.
> 
> She said straight out that they have not scrapped either of these lights.
> 
> She laughed and said they've been getting a lot of calls about this today




Yeah i was one of them....glad that was not true


----------



## climberkid (Nov 12, 2008)

same. i called to get a replacement clip for my A2 and asked and they said the same thing.


----------



## 1996alnl (Nov 12, 2008)

Now watch Eagletac (or someone else) come out with a 400 lumen torch before christmas that they've been secretly testing in a labratory 50m below ground level for the last year and half
It's all good people,when Surefire finally releases these lights rest assured we will all say it was worth the wait as these lights will set a standard for the next generation of flashlight.

Take care


----------



## KROMATICS (Nov 13, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I have had no expectation of delivery of these or any other concepts from SureFire.



One generally doesn't consider a product featured in a catalog and for which a price has been set to be a concept.


----------



## Size15's (Nov 13, 2008)

KROMATICS said:


> One generally doesn't consider a product featured in a catalog and for which a price has been set to be a concept.


"Generally" isn't SureFire! 
Their catalogs are aspirational as well as informational.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 13, 2008)

Size15's said:


> "Generally" isn't SureFire!
> Their catalogs are aspirational as well as informational.


 
Many of us would settle for "factual."


----------



## AlecGold (Nov 14, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Many of us would settle for "factual."



Perhaps that is why Surefire is Surefire and not the next thirteen in a dozen flashlight producer. 
Although I don't always understand why they do some things, I'm convinced they are thé number one flashlight producer as it comes to quality, originality and innovations. 
And just like my brilliant mechanics teacher at college, his genius goes together with a little madness on some other aspects of life... 

My dealer told me that he was told to expect it Q1 of 2009. Just like he was told Q1 in 2008 when it was this time in 2007....


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 14, 2008)

AlecGold said:


> Perhaps that is why Surefire is Surefire and not the next thirteen in a dozen flashlight producer.
> Although I don't always understand why they do some things, I'm convinced they are thé number one flashlight producer as it comes to quality, originality and innovations.
> And just like my brilliant mechanics teacher at college, his genius goes together with a little madness on some other aspects of life...
> 
> My dealer told me that he was told to expect it Q1 of 2009. Just like he was told Q1 in 2008 when it was this time in 2007....


 
I agree with you about the madness part. Still, some things are just done a certain way. You don't put items into your catalog that your customers cannot buy. Is it original? Yup! Sure is! No other company does that sort of thing. 

Perhaps a "Coming Soon" or Coming Attractions" section in the 2008 Surefire catalog. But don't put items in there that your customers can't buy now.... at this very moment.... if they wanted to. 

Who came up with that idea? And why haven't they been fired?


----------



## Size15's (Nov 14, 2008)

SureFire's catalogs have tended to included at least one or two concept products that didn't manage to make it to release during the catalog's year.
This behaviour may not be normal in the wider context but it is normal for SureFire and I believe by now, after all these years it should come as no surprise to Flashaholics.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 14, 2008)

Size15's said:


> SureFire's catalogs have tended to included at least one or two concept products that didn't manage to make it to release during the catalog's year.
> This behaviour may not be normal in the wider context but it is normal for SureFire and I believe by now, after all these years it should come as no surprise to Flashaholics.


 
There's about 10 pages of posts that make me think that it does indeed still come as a surprise to many of us.

At this point, many would be happy with a definite answer of "sometime next year," as a release date. But Surefire hasn't even given us *that *much.


----------



## MattK (Nov 14, 2008)

The current expected release date for the UA2 is March 2009.


----------



## outersquare (Nov 14, 2008)

MattK said:


> The current expected release date for the UA2 is March 2009.


 
heh, the world could be blown up (financially) by then


----------



## KROMATICS (Nov 14, 2008)

Size15's said:


> SureFire's catalogs have tended to included at least one or two concept products that didn't manage to make it to release during the catalog's year. This behaviour may not be normal in the wider context but it is normal for SureFire and I believe by now, after all these years it should come as no surprise to Flashaholics.



That sort of behavior may be acceptable for an individual making lights in their spare time and selling them here but not for a an actual company like Surefire. I'm big fan of Surefire lights but I always wonder how they manage to stay in business. Oh yeah... military orders. Maybe they can include a Magic 8 Ball with their next catalog or better yet not put concepts and prototypes in it in the first place. You just don't do that. How many sales were lost due to A) showing everyone that something better that was coming and B) not coming out with the better product after all? How many people put off buying a U2 because the UA2 was coming for example? Imagine a computer or automobile manufacturer coming out with new models and at the same time saying they would have much better models in a few months.


----------



## Size15's (Nov 14, 2008)

I seem to recall for at least one year SureFire didn't put anything new in their catalogs and told people basically nothing about what they had planned.
People complained about that too.
SureFire have had worse years of not producing stuff in their catalog. I suppose it's difficult to get the right balance.

Al


----------



## PapikAldo (Nov 16, 2008)

MattK said:


> The current expected release date for the UA2 is March 2009.


 
And when should we expect the UB2 to be released ???
Thanks


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 16, 2008)

PapikAldo said:


> And when should we expect the UB2 to be released ???
> Thanks


 
When Hell freezes over.... and Satan starts giving away free snowcones. :devil:

(Just kidding..... Hopefully before Christmas of 2009).


----------



## werdnawee (Nov 16, 2008)

Size15's said:


> "Generally" isn't SureFire!
> Their catalogs are aspirational as well as informational.


 



Monocrom said:


> Many of us would settle for "factual."


 
Can I just say this has got to be one of the best replies I have ever read.

Awesome, Monocrom!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Illumination (Nov 16, 2008)

tebore said:


> Well said. Just take a current U2 (not that P4 one) have some one pop a MC-E in it and it's ready to go and it's got a better LED than the lights SF prototyped



Are you aware of anyone with the right experience, etc. doing this for a fee?

I've got a U2 that can't outperform my one cell crees...love the U2, but it feels a bit dated....

would love to bring new life into it


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 16, 2008)

werdnawee said:


> Can I just say this has got to be one of the best replies I have ever read.
> 
> Awesome, Monocrom!!! :thumbsup:


 
A bit Tongue & Cheek. 

Al knows how important he is to the CPF community, and not just as an Admin.

I still say that a "Coming Soon" section in the yearly SF catalog would be a better idea. The rest of the items should be available for purchase the moment someone sees them in the catalog.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 16, 2008)

Illumination said:


> {Modding a stock SF U2}
> 
> Are you aware of anyone with the right experience, etc. doing this for a fee?
> 
> ...


 
Yes! If anyone can turn a U2 into a 400 lumen light that you can buy *now, *Scott can! (A.K.A. - MilkySpit).

Also, here's another U2 Mod. One that was done by AaronM.

Check it out.....
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2669958


----------



## 1996alnl (Nov 16, 2008)

MattK said:


> The current expected release date for the UA2 is March 2009.


 
Unless something else breaks:sigh:

Take care


----------



## Illumination (Nov 17, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Yes! If anyone can turn a U2 into a 400 lumen light that you can buy *now, *Scott can! (A.K.A. - MilkySpit).
> 
> Also, here's another U2 Mod. One that was done by AaronM.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Email sent to Milky!


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 17, 2008)

Illumination said:


> Thanks. Email sent to Milky!


 
Glad I was able to help.


----------



## Taboot (Nov 17, 2008)

MattK said:


> The current expected release date for the UA2 is March 2009.



Argh. I give up. Maybe I'll finally get that Novatac 120 I've been holding off on.

Thanks Matt

Mike


----------



## Optik49 (Nov 17, 2008)

I love my 120P it’s the only light I will never get rid of. 

Check this thread out. If you have not seen it.
novatac 120m military ops - desert tan 
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/209507


----------



## TangoIndia (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi Guys,

I'm New here, and i would like to have some news on the *Optimus or Invictus*, My father in Law is a Maniac with Flashlights and I Would like to gave him one for christmas.

Do you think they will be available by then?

Cheers


----------



## TJx (Nov 27, 2008)

TangoIndia said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I'm New here, and i would like to have some news on the *Optimus or Invictus*, My father in Law is a Maniac with Flashlights and I Would like to gave him one for christmas.
> 
> ...



No!
Titan maybe!


----------



## TangoIndia (Nov 27, 2008)

I'm not sure for the Titan, he is always looking for LUMENS and handy.

Do You think that the Surefire E2D Led will do the trick . 

Cheers


----------



## faucon (Nov 27, 2008)

KROMATICS said:


> How many people put off buying a U2 because the UA2 was coming for example? Imagine a computer or automobile manufacturer coming out with new models and at the same time saying they would have much better models in a few months.


This famously actually happened many years ago with a computer maker. Their CEO boasted about how much better their upcoming products would be. People immediately stopped buying any of their existing products in anticipation of the improved models, and their company went out of business

This won't happen to Surefire, but I'm not sure whether the non-appearance so far of the Optimus and Invictus is due to Surefire's high standards (not wanting to release a product prematurely) or to mistakes in engineering or manufacturing. I have every faith that Surefire can quite possibly build the world's best all-round light---but when?


----------



## carrot (Nov 27, 2008)

They said this year right? Maybe we'll see it on Dec 30. Man oh man I want me one of these. Still haven't figured out which though.


----------



## 1996alnl (Nov 27, 2008)

TangoIndia said:


> I'm not sure for the Titan, he is always looking for LUMENS and handy.
> 
> Do You think that the Surefire E2D Led will do the trick .
> 
> Cheers


 
OH YEAH!


----------



## brighterisbetter (Nov 27, 2008)

carrot said:


> Man oh man I want me one of these. Still haven't figured out which though.


You know, when I first joined these forums, it would have been no question - The Invictus. However, as I've grown my light collection, I've learned a few things along the way. As you all know already SF underrates the lumen output on their lights, so I'd venture to say that the Optimus' 200 will be perceived to be more than that. Just look at the E2DL and it's measly 120 lumens , looks much brighter. Whenever I see a 'newb' looking for a light recommendation based on criteria from their checklist or whatever it's called, there's usually a slide-scale of throw vs flood where one needs to lean more one way or the other. With the Optimus, you've got the best of both worlds: a bright variable-output light with spot-to-flood focus on the fly. If it were a one-cell light it would just about be my Ultimate EDC. As it is though, it's pretty darn close. Budget permitting I'll grab both, but the Optimus will be my first grab.

Think about it, you're getting the flood of an L4 and the throw of an E2DL in the same package on demand, plus a power-remaining indicator, and multiple levels (I could care less about the SOS and Strobe personally).


----------



## werdnawee (Nov 27, 2008)

brighterisbetter said:


> You know, when I first joined these forums, it would have been no question - The Invictus. However, as I've grown my light collection, I've learned a few things along the way. As you all know already SF underrates the lumen output on their lights, so I'd venture to say that the Optimus' 200 will be perceived to be more than that. With the Optimus, you've got the best of both worlds: a bright variable-output light with spot-to-flood focus on the fly.
> 
> Think about it, you're getting the flood of an L4 and the throw of an E2DL in the same package on demand, plus a power-remaining indicator, and multiple levels (I could care less about the SOS and Strobe personally).


 
Agree with you all the way.

Now we just need to see a working model.


----------



## 1996alnl (Nov 27, 2008)

Should be interesting to see what the beam will look like...


----------



## scaredofthedark (Nov 28, 2008)

if they ever release the dang things


----------



## AA6TZ (Nov 28, 2008)

The Optimus may be the more multi-functional of the two, but the *Invictus* has *more* of what I want:
*:thumbsup: *400 lumens. :thumbsup:

-Clive


----------



## 1996alnl (Nov 28, 2008)

AA6TZ said:


> The Optimus may be the more multi-functional of the two, but the *Invictus* has *more* of what I want:
> *:thumbsup: *400 lumens. :thumbsup:
> 
> -Clive


 
200 SF lumens (who knows the thing is probably twice as bright as my TK11) is plenty for me.
Something tells me that the Invictus might be more reliable though.


----------



## applevision (Nov 28, 2008)

INVICTUS!!! Whoo hoo!!
Argh! You guys are getting me so excited again!

Plus, every time I think about the Invictus I think about this:

'Vae Victis'

Latin for "*Woe to the vanquished*" or also "*Woe to the conquered*". 

In 387 BC, an army of Gauls led by Brennus attacked Rome, capturing all of the city except for the Capitoline Hill, which was successfully held against them. Brennus besieged the hill, and finally the Romans asked to ransom their city. Brennus demanded 1,000 pounds (327 kg) of gold, and the Romans agreed to his terms.
Livy, in _Ab Urbe Condita_ (Book 5 Sections 34-49), records that the Gauls provided Steelyard balances and weights, and the Romans brought out their gold. But the Romans noticed that the weights were fixed, and the tribunes dared to complain to Brennus about the issue. Brennus took his sword, threw it on to the weights, and exclaimed: "Vae victis!", for the conquered have no rights, forcing the Romans to bring even more gold to fulfill their obligation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vae_victis


----------



## Praxis (Nov 28, 2008)

I'm still excited about the Optimus, but after playing around with my Milky U2x2 for the past few weeks, I think I am quite happy to pass on the Invictus. 500 warm Milky lumens makes me a little giddy!


----------



## AA6TZ (Nov 29, 2008)

1996alnl said:


> 200 SF lumens (who knows the thing is probably twice as bright as my TK11) is plenty for me.
> Something tells me that the Invictus might be more reliable though.


*1996alnl* -- Your *TK11* (which I really like and will probably end up buying shortly) puts out a very decent amount of light, however the *Invictus*, if the marketing hype is accurate, ought to put out an *INDECENT* amount, by contrast!!! :twothumbs

-Clive


----------



## AA6TZ (Nov 29, 2008)

Praxis said:


> I'm still excited about the Optimus, but after playing around with my Milky U2x2 for the past few weeks, I think I am quite happy to pass on the Invictus. 500 warm Milky lumens makes me a little giddy!


 
500 lumens does the trick for me, too. Maybe it's time to mod that U2 sitting within arm's reach...

The Invictus is *still* too darned compelling of a torch for me to pass up.

-Clive


----------



## NoFair (Nov 29, 2008)

I'd be completely satisfied with 2-300 lumens of warm white goodness coming out of an Optimus. That is actually my main gripe with SF lights bought online; the tint is sometimes blueish and I can't stand it:mecry: Usually use might lights outdoors and the warmer tints are way better. 

Then I'd have my perfect mid sized light. Don't need more light as long as it has an adjustable beam. 

Sverre

PS! Li-ion support would be perfect..


----------



## 1996alnl (Nov 29, 2008)

NoFair said:


> PS! Li-ion support would be perfect..


 
YES! +1 ON THAT! 
Surefire has to be more environmentaly friendly and support rechargable Li-ion batteries in their lights;perhaps they can come out with their own brand.


----------



## Monocrom (Nov 29, 2008)

1996alnl said:


> YES! +1 ON THAT!
> Surefire has to be more environmentaly friendly and support rechargable Li-ion batteries in their lights;perhaps they can come out with their own brand.


 
Realistically.... Not gonna happen.


----------



## Daniel_sk (Nov 29, 2008)

It would make it alot interesting if the Optimus could take 18650... The chances are very low though... Let's hope at least for 17670 support.


----------



## zx7dave (Nov 29, 2008)

*sigh* By the time the Invictus finally is released I might as well just send it straight to Milky to get it upgraded to 800+ Lumens which is how SF should be selling it...since the technology is there...400 Lumens from a LED was only inspritional back in late '07 when we first heard of it because at that time 400 Lumens from a LED was still cutting edge...now it is becoming more and more common...I find very few of my SF lights remain stock because they are behind the times before they are even released. 
Will I buy one? yes...will I be content with the 400 Lumens for more than a month? Very doubtful...visions of a Milky MC-E powered by AW's IMR's...


----------



## NoFair (Nov 29, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Realistically.... Not gonna happen.


 
U2, L4, E1L (older), L5 We might get lucky since it might be all boost or all buck and have a good range of compatible input voltage.. 

This isn't the same as SF designing it for Li-ions or recomending it

All my SFs run on Li-ions:thumbsup:

Sverre


----------



## SureAddicted (Nov 29, 2008)

*A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

It's finally up, the UA2 & UB2 on the surefire site in Asia. Link provided by bwcaw and thanks for the heads up.
http://www.surefire.com.tw/led_flashlight.html


----------



## MrGman (Nov 29, 2008)

The light you guys want to buy is already out there, takes an 18650 battery and puts out over 500 lumens. Its called a Wolf Eyes P7 Sniper and you could have bought it already. 

I am sure it already does everything the Invictus was supposed to.


----------



## Kiessling (Nov 29, 2008)

No, it doesn't. It has a crappy interface and an unacceptable rear switch, which is why I sold mine immediately. 

I expect way more from the Invictus than from a WE Sniper. They are not even comparable. Different league.


----------



## Khabbi (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm beginning to wonder if these are ever going to hit the shelves. I'll be the first in line to buy one if not both, however, if they do. 

I've read through this and I have one question for the Flashlight geeks- How much run time do you think we're going to get out of a light throwing 400 lumens on 2 CR123 batteries? 

I get the sinking feeling that the first time I will see one of these may be the shot show in January in Orlando, and if they don't have both of them running and in flesh there, it will be a tell tale sign as to what's really going on...


----------



## Bruce B (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

Now... If only I could read the writing... :shakehead

And I wish the U2 Porcupine was available here in the Good Ole' USA...


----------



## rockz4532 (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

good news! wonder when they are going to start selling in the U.S. is it already availiable for sale in taiwan?


----------



## dano (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

Via google translation:

http://translate.google.com/transla...flashlight.html&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=zh-CN&tl=en

I don't think that's SF's Asian website. Who's "Thunder Sports Supplies Co." that listed at the top and bottom? Looks more like a dealers page that snatched the "surefire.com.tw" web addy.


----------



## Bruce B (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*



dano said:


> Via google translation:
> 
> http://translate.google.com/transla...flashlight.html&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=zh-CN&tl=en
> 
> I don't think that's SF's Asian website. Who's "Thunder Sports Supplies Co." that listed at the top and bottom? Looks more like a dealers page that snatched the "surefire.com.tw" web addy.



Thanks for the translation... Made things much more readable!

Now what to do about getting the Optimus and Invictus and the U2 Porcupine available here in the USA...


----------



## Xanteen (Nov 29, 2008)

I'll be surprised if they have anything but updated prototypes hidden in the back of the booth at Shot.


----------



## SureAddicted (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

Thanks dano.
That Porcupine sure looks the business, I could see one in my arsenal. I wonder if they will ship os.....

Good spot, not sure who that co is, as long as they deliver.....


----------



## Bruce B (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*



SureAddicted said:


> Thanks dano.
> That Porcupine sure looks the business, I could see one in my arsenal. I wonder if they will ship os.....



Wonder what the price is like though... Sure looks awesome!


----------



## faucon (Nov 29, 2008)

zx7dave said:


> *sigh* By the time the Invictus finally is released I might as well just send it straight to Milky to get it upgraded to 800+ Lumens which is how SF should be selling it...since the technology is there...400 Lumens from a LED was only inspritional back in late '07 when we first heard of it because at that time 400 Lumens from a LED was still cutting edge...now it is becoming more and more common...I find very few of my SF lights remain stock because they are behind the times before they are even released.
> Will I buy one? yes...will I be content with the 400 Lumens for more than a month? Very doubtful...visions of a Milky MC-E powered by AW's IMR's...


Wow---800+ lumens? I have an AE Powerlight that puts out about that much. I have to say, though, that for me 800 lumens is so overwhelmingly bright outdoors at night that I seldom use the Powerlight. My EagleTac T10C2, at 270-280 lumens, seems quite bright to me at the moment. I"m glad to have the extra punch compared with the 100 lumens of my U2, but I wonder if there aren't eventual limits to the usefulness of sheer lumens. Of course, it all depends on the intended purpose of a light and the environment that it is used in, as well as the beam pattern.


----------



## Splunk_Au (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

Why is it more expensive in Taiwan?
At about $345, that's like $65 over the batteryjuncion.com price of $280.


----------



## Taboot (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*



Splunk_Au said:


> Why is it more expensive in Taiwan?
> At about $345, that's like $65 over the batteryjuncion.com price of $280.



I think I'd pay it if I could get one today.


----------



## 1996alnl (Nov 29, 2008)

zx7dave said:


> *sigh* By the time the Invictus finally is released I might as well just send it straight to Milky to get it upgraded to 800+ Lumens which is how SF should be selling it...since the technology is there...400 Lumens from a LED was only inspritional back in late '07 when we first heard of it because at that time 400 Lumens from a LED was still cutting edge...now it is becoming more and more common...I find very few of my SF lights remain stock because they are behind the times before they are even released.
> Will I buy one? yes...will I be content with the 400 Lumens for more than a month? Very doubtful...visions of a Milky MC-E powered by AW's IMR's...


 
You sir need help! You are a lumen addict and you need councling...repeat after me "My name is zx7dave and i am a flashoholic and i'm addicted to lumens"


----------



## Splunk_Au (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

I think you can, there's an add to shopping cart button for the optimus but not invictus.


----------



## brighterisbetter (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

What I find interesting is that the Optimus is priced less than the Kroma Mil-Spec, the regular Kroma, and the U2 Porcupine!!


----------



## toasterlocker (Nov 30, 2008)

Kiessling said:


> They are not even comparable. Different league.



Yeah, one exists, the other one doesn't.

Seriously though, I understand your gripe with the Sniper. But I wouldn't go so far as to say one is better than the other or in a "different league" when it is nothing but vaporware.

I too am seriously concerned that by the time Surefire releases these lights, they will just be overpriced and inferior like everything else they are making right now.


----------



## brighterisbetter (Nov 30, 2008)

toasterlocker said:


> They will just be overpriced and inferior like everything else they are making right now.


Not to me at least, I guess that's why some people are nuts about anything SF, and some people aren't. I'm one of the first type. Kia may have all the features of higher end automobiles at a lower price, but they're still Kia's. I've never owned a Sniper P7 so can't honestly draw a comparison between the two vendors, nor do I want to turn this thread into a brand comparison. We all know there's an over-abundance of those already. I'm just saying that my money's with SF.


----------



## AA6TZ (Nov 30, 2008)

SF overpriced? Perhaps. But I haven't run across anything (as of yet) that compares *across the board*.

That being said . . . here's another +1 for *Li-Ion* support! Are you listening, SurefIre? (Okay -- *reading?*)

-Clive


----------



## AA6TZ (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

How difficult is it to retrofit a Digital U2 Ultra with a "Porcupine" head? (Assuming that the mod/retrofit *is* possible - and that one can actually get their hands on that "nifty" little devil...:thinking

-Clive


----------



## BBL (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

Is there any rational explanation for this porcupine-thing?


----------



## Size15's (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: A Sign of things to come...maybe (UA2-UB2)*

This doesn't indicate anything other that what other SureFire Dealers have done all round the world - which is to prepare for the products SureFire thought they'd be releasing as a result of SHOT Show 2008...
No special story here AFAICT (As far as I can tell)
I'll merge this thread into the main one.

Edit, the .tw SureFire site has very similar news and info to the .jp SureFire site - both of which lag a bit behind the more fully rounded SureFireKorea site (IMHO of course)

Edit 2:
As for the Porcupine-thing - there have been some detailed threads on this topic as I'm sure a search with unearth. We'll try to keep this thread about the UA2 and UB2.


----------



## Monkiee (Dec 1, 2008)

One thing i am most interested in the UA2 and UB2 is the max blast tailcap.

Its pretty innovative to have one of those produced. Having 2 lumens then instantly up to 200 or 400.

Thats what i am really waiting for.


----------



## Size15's (Dec 1, 2008)

Monkiee said:


> One thing i am most interested in the UA2 and UB2 is the max blast tailcap.
> 
> Its pretty innovative to have one of those produced. Having 2 lumens then instantly up to 200 or 400.
> 
> Thats what i am really waiting for.


This is SureFire's two-stage push button pressure switch TailCap.
Operationally it is no different from the L1, L2, A2, K2 etc.


----------



## AA6TZ (Dec 2, 2008)

Monkiee said:


> One thing i am most interested in the UA2 and UB2 is the max blast tailcap.
> 
> Its pretty innovative to have one of those produced. Having 2 lumens then instantly up to 200 or 400.
> 
> Thats what i am really waiting for.


 
The Max Blast tailcap is one of the UB2's main features that helped finalize its sale to Yours Truly.

-Clive


----------



## NoFair (Dec 2, 2008)

Size15's said:


> This is SureFire's two-stage push button pressure switch TailCap.
> Operationally it is no different from the L1, L2, A2, K2 etc.


 
But that is my favorite tailcap switch so it is all good

Sverre


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## Size15's (Dec 2, 2008)

I agree.
And getting the "Mash Down" UI functioning 'correctly' was one of the things SureFire were working on.
For example, my idea of what "Mash Down" means is that you overide whatever stage 1 output mode is selected and get stage 2 High Output by mashing down on the switch (pushing hard).
However, the proto-types at SHOT Show 2008 had the strobe mode strobe on low output on stage 1, and on high output when 'mashing down' on stage 2. What I, and I believe others would prefer would be the strobe mode (high output strobe) being stage 1, and the stage 2 output being the high output beam just like when mashing down from a lower output level option for stage 1.
(it's really obvious in use, even if I've not explained it well, sorry)

Al


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## NoFair (Dec 2, 2008)

Size15's said:


> I agree.
> And getting the "Mash Down" UI functioning 'correctly' was one of the things SureFire were working on.
> For example, my idea of what "Mash Down" means is that you overide whatever stage 1 output mode is selected and get stage 2 High Output by mashing down on the switch (pushing hard).
> However, the proto-types at SHOT Show 2008 had the strobe mode strobe on low output on stage 1, and on high output when 'mashing down' on stage 2. What I, and I believe others would prefer would be the strobe mode (high output strobe) being stage 1, and the stage 2 output being the high output beam just like when mashing down from a lower output level option for stage 1.
> ...


 
Agree with the strobe and always getting high when "mashing" 

Takes the thinking out of the equation, which is often a good thing with flashlights

Sverre


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Dec 3, 2008)

Size15's said:


> What I, and I believe others would prefer would be the strobe mode (high output strobe) being stage 1, and the stage 2 output being the high output beam just like when mashing down from a lower output level option for stage 1.
> (it's really obvious in use, even if I've not explained it well, sorry)



I really hope SureFire is reading this or Size15 has a lot of clout. I hated the MaxBlast tailcap because I wanted two things. Full power strobe ready to go, not just high brightness. If I wanted a lower setting, I have time to adjust it. In emergencies I don't. I do that with my U2. I leave it on high and lower it before I turn it on. Second thing I love about the U2 tailcap is the push for temporary on, click to stay on. Always hated twisties.

Now to be clear. If SureFire changed the MaxBlast tailcap so that fully depressing the button puts out a blinding strobe, I will be content and live with the twisty aspect.


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## Size15's (Dec 3, 2008)

Flashlight Aficionado said:


> I really hope SureFire is reading this or Size15 has a lot of clout. I hated the MaxBlast tailcap because I wanted two things. Full power strobe ready to go, not just high brightness. If I wanted a lower setting, I have time to adjust it. In emergencies I don't. I do that with my U2. I leave it on high and lower it before I turn it on. Second thing I love about the U2 tailcap is the push for temporary on, click to stay on. Always hated twisties.
> 
> Now to be clear. If SureFire changed the MaxBlast tailcap so that fully depressing the button puts out a blinding strobe, I will be content and live with the twisty aspect.


Unless I am misunderstanding you, I do not want what you want.

The way I see it, there are two ways SureFire can include a strobing feature into it's two-stage models:
Strobe first, high output second
or
High output first, strobe second

I don't know which will be more ideal for operators. I suspect such things are determined by extensive "force-on-force" training and field-testing to gauge opinion and gain operator feedback.

Secondly, the term "twisty" has confused me somewhat...
If "twisty" vs "clickie" is the method for constant-on output then that's one thing.
However, in this case neither term does a particularly good job of describing the 'momentary' function of a push button pressure switch.
One could argue that SureFire's "Clickie" TailCaps have some travel before they latch constant-on and the user can take advantage of this travel to achieve momentary on/off switching.
I personally don't feel comfortable relying on myself not to press too hard and latch the switch constant-on. So I prefer SureFire's standard momentary-on/off push button LockOut TailCap compared to 'Clickie' LockOut TailCaps.
Both are bested (IMHO) by SureFire's two-stage push button pressure switch LockOut TailCaps.
SureFire invented (Patented) this concept and embodied it in two main ways:
1) Two-stage push button pressure switch 'body' - whereby the battery is pushed forwards to activate first one, and then another light output switching containing the bezel. The battery acts like a piston. The 10X is the main example.
2) Two-stage push button pressure switch LockOut TailCap. This method is used by a variety of lights such as the A2, L1, L2, K2.

In general I dislike Clickie TailCaps. Worse though are the dual (or multiple) output lights that cycle through modes by clicking.

Al


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## Splunk_Au (Dec 9, 2008)

Size15's said:


> "Generally" isn't SureFire!
> Their catalogs are aspirational as well as informational.


 
I dont think that would be what their main customer who are in the military/leo will think or are looking for. Somehow I doubt aspirational and informational products will help those people much, they need the PHYSICAL, FUNCTIONAL PRODUCT AS ADVERTISED.


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## Size15's (Dec 10, 2008)

Splunk_Au said:


> I dont think that would be what their main customer who are in the military/leo will think or are looking for. Somehow I doubt aspirational and informational products will help those people much, they need the PHYSICAL, FUNCTIONAL PRODUCT AS ADVERTISED.


Firstly, based on my experiences of how SureFire interacts with Military personnel the catalogues don't figure much into things - it's far more about the relationships built between SureFire staff and those they need to work with and influence. You're right this is far less about theory and far more about what SureFire can deliver. These are practical people on both sides.

Second thing is that SureFire prioritise production and effort to ensuring new products are in the hands of those who need them. SureFire's current new products in this area seem to pass CPF members and the general public by as they are designed and intended for [specialist] military and law enforcement use.


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## Flashlight Aficionado (Dec 10, 2008)

Size15's said:


> Unless I am misunderstanding you, I do not want what you want.
> 
> The way I see it, there are two ways SureFire can include a strobing feature into it's two-stage models:
> Strobe first, high output second
> ...



That would be a nice addition to their line-up.



> Secondly, the term "twisty" has confused me somewhat...
> If "twisty" vs "clickie" is the method for constant-on output then that's one thing.


I think we agree here. Clicky for a button you have to push and click for it to stay on. Twisty for a button that ONLY temporarily turns on the light and the tailcap must be twisted for constant on.



> In general I dislike Clickie TailCaps. Worse though are the dual (or multiple) output lights that cycle through modes by clicking.



I too hate multple modes via mutliple button presses. You and I may disagree, but to be as clear as possible and probably way too verbose. 

What I really want the Optimus tailcap to do is:
Light touch - Activates the ring setting selected
Click - Lock on ring setting

The reason why is how I use my U2. I have it ready to go on full brightness. So if I need it in an emergency, I just pull it out and push the button. Any non-emergency (thankfully 100% of the time) I have time to adjust the setting.

Would accept:
Light touch - Activates the ring setting selected
Heavy touch - full brightness with strobe
Twist tailcap - Lock on ring setting

My acceptable is very close to what SF has planned and may actually be the final version for when the Optimus actually hits the stores.

Oh, Size15 I like clickies. :kiss:


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## LIGHTSMAD (Dec 12, 2008)

*SUREFIRE INVICTUS*

anyone have any info on the upcoming invictus?

can someone fill in the spaces


1. coating = HA-III
2. led type = 
3. regulation =
4. run time = 
5. modes = 2-400 ( stobe, sos )?
6. reflector type =
7. battery option =

and if there is anything i have missed!


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## LIGHTSMAD (Dec 12, 2008)

i am so glad i stumbleupon this thread now and not when the thread first started,

all that waiting!! 

im only around the corner from its realse!!! well, thats what people thought 6mts ago!


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## cruisemissile (Dec 12, 2008)

honestly, I want to go out on a limb and say that the Invictus is what all these expensive mods have been aspiring to: serious lumens, variable modes, "low fuel" indicator, etc...
Not to mention, judging from the pics, styling and aesthetics that are akin to a german supermodel. 

functionality, brightness and looks, all for $280- may be the only light you need!


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## Monocrom (Dec 12, 2008)

LIGHTSMAD said:


> im only around the corner from its release!!! well, thats what people thought 6mts ago!


 
Ah, an optimist. 

Just before Christmas would be a more realistic realease date.... of 2009.


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## 1996alnl (Dec 12, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> Ah, an optimist.
> 
> Just before Christmas would be a more realistic realease date.... of 2009.


 
Come on now be nice.


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## Solscud007 (Dec 12, 2008)

Hmm Im not so sure im sold. Granted 400 lumens is appetizing. but it seems like a U2 with bells and whistles merged with a Kroma (in terms of the dual stage button)


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## Monocrom (Dec 13, 2008)

1996alnl said:


> Come on now be nice.


 
I am being nice. I did say *before *Christmas.


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## AA6TZ (Dec 14, 2008)

It's a safe bet (okay, my humble opinion) that SureFire is making pretty darned certain ("making a list and checking it twice" ) that the Invictus will be near perfection operationally (and, it goes without saying, _aesthetically_), each being a *GIVEN* to Yours Truly. Whenever the magic date of its premiere appearance should occur, I will be waiting -- with credit card in hand! :twothumbs

-Clive


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## signal 13 (Dec 14, 2008)

I gave up on the Optimus & Invictus long ago. I sure am glad I didn't place a pre-order on lapolicegear.com waaaay back when they first started talking about the release. I was so close to doing it!


----------



## LED61 (Dec 14, 2008)

I'm not really crazy about more lumens on LED lights unless they feature a color temperature like the Malkoff.


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## socom1970 (Dec 14, 2008)

Must have patience... must have patience... Fortunately, my Milky U2x2 should be in my hands this week, so I will have my warm Milky goodness no matter what. I expect it will be as bright as the Invictus SHOULD be by now. However, I WILL buy the first UA2 or UB2 that shows up in my area, no matter what. (I have a SureFire "connection" where I live)


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## Fooboy (Dec 16, 2008)

I read the last 3 pages of this thread and didn't see an update regarding release date.

Trust me, I know there is nothing official but what is the word on the street regarding when it will be out?


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## LIGHTSMAD (Dec 16, 2008)

surefire needs to get there head out of ther a**, if you ask me!


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## pwx234 (Dec 16, 2008)

lol very funny

marketing wise it would be good for them to make them available before christmas


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## Taboot (Dec 16, 2008)

pwx234 said:


> lol very funny
> 
> marketing wise it would be good for them to make them available before christmas



It would have been great to make them available when the stimulus checks went out too. 

I think they've expending all of their energy suing Pentagonlight. Probably more profitable too.


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## NoFair (Dec 16, 2008)

Taboot said:


> It would have been great to make them available when the stimulus checks went out too.
> 
> I think they've expending all of their energy suing Pentagonlight. Probably more profitable too.


 
I'd be surprised if their legal department/lawer was making lights:thinking:


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## Monocrom (Dec 16, 2008)

NoFair said:


> I'd be surprised if their legal department/lawer was making lights:thinking:


 
I believe Taboot was referring to the lawyers making money.


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## NoFair (Dec 16, 2008)

Monocrom said:


> I believe Taboot was referring to the lawyers making money.


 
Don't think they will have rich pickings at PL though..  

Sverre


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## 300winmag (Dec 16, 2008)

I do not own any Surefire lights but I want the Invictus to be my first one, so I took it upon myself to send an email to Surefire(about an hour ago) and ask when the light will be released. To my surprise they shot one back right away. Here it Goes.

Dear Sir,
As much as we would like to give an exact release date for the Invictus and Optimus lights, previous experience has proven that this is a bad idea. Both the UA2 and the UB2 are highly anticipated products, and our Product Management team is making absolutely sure that the product released will not disappoint. We are hoping to release around mid-2009, however this date is not set in stone and is subject to change. 
 
Thank you
 
Greg Lin
Technical Support
SureFire LLC
800-828-8809


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## Taboot (Dec 16, 2008)

300winmag said:


> I do not own any Surefire lights but I want the Invictus to be my first one, so I took it upon myself to send an email to Surefire(about an hour ago) and ask when the light will be released. To my surprise they shot one back right away. Here it Goes.
> 
> Dear Sir,
> As much as we would like to give an exact release date for the Invictus and Optimus lights, previous experience has proven that this is a bad idea. Both the UA2 and the UB2 are highly anticipated products, and our Product Management team is making absolutely sure that the product released will not disappoint. We are hoping to release around mid-2009, however this date is not set in stone and is subject to change.
> ...



oy yoy yoy. Seems like I could have built a UA2 during the time it will have taken. Invictus Forever.


----------



## Bruce B (Dec 16, 2008)

300winmag said:


> I do not own any Surefire lights but I want the Invictus to be my first one, so I took it upon myself to send an email to Surefire(about an hour ago) and ask when the light will be released. To my surprise they shot one back right away. Here it Goes.
> 
> Dear Sir,
> As much as we would like to give an exact release date for the Invictus and Optimus lights, previous experience has proven that this is a bad idea. Both the UA2 and the UB2 are highly anticipated products, and our Product Management team is making absolutely sure that the product released will not disappoint. We are hoping to release around mid-2009, however this date is not set in stone and is subject to change.
> ...


 
So.. Sounds more like the release date will be sometime in 2010... :sigh: :sigh:


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## 300winmag (Dec 16, 2008)

Yup and by then the common LED will be putting out 800 lumens.
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid.


----------



## Kiessling (Dec 16, 2008)

Doesn't matter. Gives us more time to enjoy our current lights.
Invictus will come, and it will be great.


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## pipspeak (Dec 16, 2008)

Bruce B said:


> So.. Sounds more like the release date will be sometime in 2010... :sigh: :sigh:


 
Indeed. "Hoping to release around mid-2009" and "subject to change" don't sound good to me.


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## 276 (Dec 16, 2008)

The Optimus is the longest running pre-order i have ever done!


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## dano (Dec 16, 2008)

I'm betting that neither will ever be released to the public. Their was a working prototype at SS '08, yet no actual product? Something is holding them up, and I'm guessing it isn't technical issues.

And if either one does get released, it'll be a drastically different light than what was portrayed in the '08 catalog.

-dan


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## Kiessling (Dec 16, 2008)

I am inclined not to believe what you assume, but I do hope you might be right.
They could remove the SOS and strobe. This would be drastically different and very positive. And it is my expectation and hope, to come back to the thread title.
bernie


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## kongfuchicken (Dec 16, 2008)

Was the SS prototype up to specs?
IIRC, it didn't have the optimus focusable optics nor was it using the final choice of emitter.


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## Size15's (Dec 17, 2008)

The UA2 proto-types (there were 5-10 of them) had functioning focusing systems. SureFire weren't happy with them yet though and were in the process of refining the Zoom Plate optics etc.
SureFire were not happy with the switching either from a what does what when perspective rather than a mechanical UI.

The UB2 was not shown at SS2008. Indeed it took months for a proto-type to surface. When it did it was much smaller than the catalog specs (the bezel was slimmer and shorter as SureFire had determined the LED didn't need a wider, deeper reflector to achieve the beam they were after)


----------



## 1996alnl (Dec 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> The UB2 was not shown at SS2008. Indeed it took months for a proto-type to surface. When it did it was much smaller than the catalog specs (the bezel was slimmer and shorter as SureFire had determined the LED didn't need a wider, deeper reflector to achieve the beam they were after)


 
That's a good thing,i'm a fan of bright compact lights.


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## digitaleos (Dec 17, 2008)

I know this is a little off topic but Surefire has finally updated some of the specs on the current U2, ie..runtimes with the new emitter. As for the Invictus and Optimus I'll just keep


----------



## 1996alnl (Dec 17, 2008)

digitaleos said:


> I know this is a little off topic but Surefire has finally updated some of the specs on the current U2, ie..runtimes with the new emitter. As for the Invictus and Optimus I'll just keep


 
Thanks for the heads up.
I haven't checked their website in awhile.


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## maxa beam (Dec 17, 2008)

pipspeak said:


> Indeed. "Hoping to release around mid-2009" and "subject to change" don't sound good to me.



This.

Before, it was "Hope to release around mid to late 2008"

Skeptical.


----------



## Double_A (Dec 17, 2008)

Yea, I found this thread! Silly me I was looking in the LED light sub-forum.
Boo, I have longer to wait. Oh, well make it great I can wait.


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## kongfuchicken (Dec 17, 2008)

Size15's said:


> The UA2 proto-types (there were 5-10 of them) had functioning focusing systems. SureFire weren't happy with them yet though and were in the process of refining the Zoom Plate optics etc.
> SureFire were not happy with the switching either from a what does what when perspective rather than a mechanical UI.



Right, I stand corrected.
I did recall something along those lines mentioned previously which is why I'm not the least bit impatient about its release and look forward to it knowing it'll be up to SF standards.


----------



## 1996alnl (Dec 17, 2008)

I have a feeling Surefire completely redesigned these lights...:thinking:


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## MattK (Dec 17, 2008)

We'll know in ~4 weeks I expect.


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## digitaleos (Dec 18, 2008)

Come on Matt  spill the beans, what is it you don't know.:thinking:


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## V8TOYTRUCK (Dec 18, 2008)

Man, after so long I still check this thread for updates and after so long I am still disappointed everytime I come in!
If I would of known it would take almost a year I would of held onto my U2 and M6! I wanted to get them sold before these came out and made them obsolete.


----------



## AA6TZ (Dec 18, 2008)

V8TOYTRUCK said:


> If I would of known it would take almost a year I would of held onto my U2 and M6! I wanted to get them sold before these came out and made them obsolete.


 
:eeksign: *EEGADS!* Say it isn't so!

To tell you the truth, I'd recently put my U2 up for sale for the same exact reason(s) you'd stated. But then, my inner conscience told me (shouted, actually): "Just what in the *H*LL* do you think you're doing?!??" Several days and several offers later, I decided against selling it. For _once_ I lucked-out and made the correct decision.

Man it's gotta hurt to have parted with your *U2* _and_ your *M6*. There _is_ light at the end of the tunnel, thankfully (I elect to remain positive and shall refrain from saying "hopefully") for when that Optimus or Invictus (or hell, BOTH) are in your possession . . . you can relax and shrug it off to having been "just one of those things." (with apologies to Frank Sinatra )

*We'll get one of these new SureFires yet!!!* :thumbsup:

-Clive


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## Size15's (Dec 18, 2008)

MattK said:


> We'll know in ~4 weeks I expect.


SHOT Show 2009


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## Yoda4561 (Dec 18, 2008)

Size15's said:


> The UB2 was not shown at SS2008. Indeed it took months for a proto-type to surface. When it did it was much smaller than the catalog specs (the bezel was slimmer and shorter as SureFire had determined the LED didn't need a wider, deeper reflector to achieve the beam they were after)



So... about how big compared to the UA2? A UA2 (or m2.. omg) sized invictus would be on my must buy list, even if it ends up needing an LED swap to compete with the latest bin lights at release.


----------



## Rob187 (Dec 18, 2008)

pwx234 said:


> marketing wise it would be good for them to make them available before christmas


 
Yeah. Christmas 2009.


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## Size15's (Dec 18, 2008)

Yoda4561 said:


> So... about how big compared to the UA2? A UA2 (or m2.. omg) sized invictus would be on my must buy list, even if it ends up needing an LED swap to compete with the latest bin lights at release.


The UB2 proto-type was the same diameter bezel as the UA2 - so that's Z32 diamter - slimmer than than the M2/U2/KL5A etc
However, the UB2 bezel is shorter than the UA2 bezel because it doesn't have the Zooming optics.

These are the photos I took of the UA2 proto-type at SS2008


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## StandardBattery (Dec 18, 2008)

V8TOYTRUCK said:


> Man, after so long I still check this thread for updates and after so long I am still disappointed everytime I come in!
> If I would of known it would take almost a year I would of held onto my U2 and M6! I wanted to get them sold before these came out and made them obsolete.


 
It'll take more than a bright light to make an M6 obsolete. In 5 to 10 years when maybe it finally is, it will be a nice historical piece.


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## Yoda4561 (Dec 18, 2008)

Size15's said:


> The UB2 proto-type was the same diameter bezel as the UA2 - so that's Z32 diamter - slimmer than than the M2/U2/KL5A etc
> However, the UB2 bezel is shorter than the UA2 bezel because it doesn't have the Zooming optics.



Nice!! That makes it about the same length as an L2 bit a bit chunkier, I could live with that in a pocket once in a while


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## Fooboy (Dec 21, 2008)

Dear Santa,

I really really want an Optimus UA2 for Christmas - I mean Q1 2009. 

Thanks,

Fooboy


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## iapyx (Dec 22, 2008)

Size15's said:


> .....
> 
> The UB2 was not shown at SS2008. Indeed it took months for a proto-type to surface. When it did it was much smaller than the catalog specs (the bezel was slimmer and shorter as SureFire had determined the LED didn't need a wider, deeper reflector to achieve the beam they were after)


 

IF the UB2 appears to be even smaller than the UA2, it would be - at least for me - a great competitor for the UA2. 

For a long time I thought the UA2 was the light to have for it being smaller and focusable. So if the UB2 appears to be smaller in the end, the only choice that will have to be made is: do I want a focusable light with 200 lumen or a non-focusable light with 400 lumen.

(getting both lights is also an option, over time)

and now... we wait


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## 1996alnl (Dec 22, 2008)

I think the smaller (more pocketable) those two lights are the more they will sell.


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## AA6TZ (Dec 22, 2008)

iapyx said:


> (getting both lights is also an *option*, over time)


 
As a fellow Flashaholic, I think it's safe to say that it's the _*only*_ reasonable option. 

-Clive


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## AlecGold (Dec 27, 2008)

iapyx said:


> IF the UB2 appears to be even smaller than the UA2, it would be - at least for me - a great competitor for the UA2.
> 
> For a long time I thought the UA2 was the light to have for it being smaller and focusable. So if the UB2 appears to be smaller in the end, the only choice that will have to be made is: do I want a focusable light with 200 lumen or a non-focusable light with 400 lumen.
> 
> ...



The waiting game is on indeed, and it might take even a bit longer before we get it in our hands, here in the Netherlands!

But I'm not in the waiting game for the UB2, the UA2 is much more versatile and even if it is a bit bigger, just imagine what you can do with a perfect flood beam on low: read a map, read a book in a shelter, just fumble around in a black backpack. Flood on high? look at a large part of the road and the sides, light up a complete room, without the need to bounce at the ceiling, a create a "wall of light" etc. When you focus the beam, you can spot things in the distance, illuminate a small spot close by, blind one man in a group, search for lost things (or people), signal over longer distances. 

Compared to the UB2 that is much more. An even if the specs are like they are in the brochure 2008, the 200 lumens of the Optimus could reach further if they are more focused than the probable "jack-of-all-trades-medium-but-400-lumens-beam of the UB2, just because it isn't focus-able.
I am wondering why they are even planning on a UA2 and on a UB2 and not just on one new light. Odd thing to make two lights: just combine the 400 lumens and the focus in one light?!

But as I said, the waiting game is on, my paypal is locked and loaded for this light, whenever it comes, I only have a EB1 that I really use at this time, just because I don't want to buy another 2 cell light and have to sell it when I settle for a UA2. Off topic, but the E1B is one very good light that has seen a lot of EDC and is really usefull and handy!
Perhaps I want to buy the Saint, but as I have Wilma from Lupine, that is not really needed . 
But since when does "need" made it into the equation here on CPF


----------



## ANDREAS FERRARI (Dec 27, 2008)

I can't decide between these two so I will buy both! Damn you SF.How much longer do I have to wait!BTW how long before Malkoff offers an upgrade, HA! HA! HA!


----------



## AA6TZ (Dec 27, 2008)

AlecGold said:


> I am wondering why they are even planning on a UA2 and on a UB2 and not just on one new light. Odd thing to make two lights: just *combine* the *400 lumens* and the *focus* into *one light?!*


 
*+1* Exactly! Well said, Alec!! :thumbsup:

-Clive


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## ANDREAS FERRARI (Dec 27, 2008)

Multi-die LED's don't focus well.It's one(single die-like a R2) or the other(a multi die like a MC-E-M).


----------



## iapyx (Dec 27, 2008)

AlecGold said:


> ... I am wondering why they are even planning on a UA2 and on a UB2 and not just on one new light. Odd thing to make two lights: just combine the 400 lumens and the focus in one light?!


 
suddenly I know the answer to why we are waiting so long: Surefire can't decide themselves. 

I have to say that I am very very curious how these two lights perform. So I am glad my pre-order (UA2) was cancelled. What I would like to know is how well performs the UA2 with focused beam. Will it outthrow the UB2? How well is the flood of the UA2 etc etc.


----------



## cruisemissile (Dec 27, 2008)

iapyx said:


> suddenly I know the answer to why we are waiting so long: Surefire can't decide themselves.
> 
> I have to say that I am very very curious how these two lights perform. So I am glad my pre-order (UA2) was cancelled. What I would like to know is how well performs the UA2 with focused beam. Will it outthrow the UB2? How well is the flood of the UA2 etc etc.


 
its not due to indecision, its due to business. good marketing. that way you sell more lights. if you put all the great features into one light, it would make make their other lights obsolete.(kind of)


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## iapyx (Dec 27, 2008)

cruisemissile said:


> its not due to indecision, its due to business. good marketing. that way you sell more lights. if you put all the great features into one light, it would make make their other lights obsolete.(kind of)


 

Are you serious??? 
And I've always thought that Surefire was a non-profit organisation....


----------



## LIGHTSMAD (Dec 27, 2008)

AlecGold said:


> The waiting game is on indeed, and it might take even a bit longer before we get it in our hands, here in the Netherlands!
> 
> But I'm not in the waiting game for the UB2, the UA2 is much more versatile and even if it is a bit bigger, just imagine what you can do with a perfect flood beam on low: read a map, read a book in a shelter, just fumble around in a black backpack. Flood on high? look at a large part of the road and the sides, light up a complete room, without the need to bounce at the ceiling, a create a "wall of light" etc. When you focus the beam, you can spot things in the distance, illuminate a small spot close by, blind one man in a group, search for lost things (or people), signal over longer distances.
> 
> ...


 you are right on the button!


----------



## iapyx (Dec 28, 2008)

AlecGold said:


> The waiting game is on indeed, and it might take even a bit longer before we get it in our hands, here in the Netherlands!
> 
> But I'm not in the waiting game for the UB2, the UA2 is much more versatile and even if it is a bit bigger, just imagine what you can do with a perfect flood beam on low: read a map, read a book in a shelter, just fumble around in a black backpack. Flood on high? look at a large part of the road and the sides, light up a complete room, without the need to bounce at the ceiling, a create a "wall of light" etc. When you focus the beam, you can spot things in the distance, illuminate a small spot close by, blind one man in a group, search for lost things (or people), signal over longer distances.
> 
> ...


 

That is why I am really curious how the two light perform in a comparison shoot out. Maybe the two lights appear to be too different for such a thing. Many of us can afford only one of them (if one at all), so a choice will have to be made. 

btw AlecGold, I will order mine in the US and have it sent via a friend in Boston. That way I won't have to wait till it's released in the NL.


----------



## AlecGold (Jan 1, 2009)

iapyx said:


> That is why I am really curious how the two light perform in a comparison shoot out. Maybe the two lights appear to be too different for such a thing. Many of us can afford only one of them (if one at all), so a choice will have to be made.
> 
> btw AlecGold, I will order mine in the US and have it sent via a friend in Boston. That way I won't have to wait till it's released in the NL.



I'm planning on the same trick to get it via a shipping address in the US, but well, it can take another week or 50 before it is here. 
Perhaps I can afford it to spend so much on a light, but two? Nah, that is a bit to much for me as well. I can do lots of other things with another 200 or 300 bucks. 
The focused reach of the UA2 might surprise us, when compared to the UB2. 
But 2 times the amount of lumens, is still once as bright to the human eye mark I. 

@cruisemissile, I don't think SureFire is that good at marketing. It isn't like Apple who makes us mad with another update of their OS-X and gets us crazy about a new 13" aluminium laptop, just by trickling bits of (uncertain) info through informers & internet blogs etc.


----------



## carrot (Jan 1, 2009)

Sometimes I wish SureFire would tell us things only when they are just about ready to release. The wait is agonizing.


----------



## Ratchet_Gear (Jan 1, 2009)

Hey guys,

I found a video and pictures of the Optimus and Invictus and thought I should post it. You will find the videos at the bottom of the page. You might want to start both of them, mute the volume and let them load for 15-20 minutes so that you can see it continuously without it stopping on you 50 times. Just a WARNING, it is in Korean and although the review is not the greatest as far as really going into detail, you can at least see them put through their paces.:thumbsup:

If this has already been posted I apologize.

http://www.surefirekorea.com/board/...1&page=1&type=v&num1=999869&num2=00000&lock=N


----------



## Fooboy (Jan 1, 2009)

Ratchet_Gear said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I found a video and pictures of the Optimus and Invictus and thought I should post it. You will find the videos at the bottom of the page. You might want to start both of them, mute the volume and let them load for 15-20 minutes so that you can see it continuously without it stopping on you 50 times. Just a WARNING, it is in Japanese and although the review is not the greatest as far as really going into detail, you can at least see them put through their paces.:thumbsup:
> 
> ...



Great find. There were more photos but I thought these were the coolest 

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/7158/4l2t3292ahm5.jpg

http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9696/4l2t3223ann4.jpg

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8707/4l2t3186adu9.jpg

_Over sized images removed_


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 1, 2009)

Oh ... cool !
Maybe we're close? Hope dies last


----------



## Size15's (Jan 1, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> Oh ... cool !
> Maybe we're close? Hope dies last


Those photos are ages old (months) - seen on CPF, perhaps even in this thread already...
Best wait to see what SHOT Show 2009 brings in terms of what we can all start waiting for _this_ year


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 1, 2009)

Come on Al ... can't just supress a flicker of hope, can you?


----------



## Size15's (Jan 1, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> Come on Al ... can't just supress a flicker of hope, can you?


It's what I do best :nana:


----------



## 1996alnl (Jan 1, 2009)

Hmm.. looks like a P7 on the Invictus


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 1, 2009)

1996alnl said:


> Hmm.. looks like a P7 on the Invictus



Yes. Of course. What did you expect? Invictus=P7. Has always been that way.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 1, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> Yes. Of course. What did you expect? Invictus=P7. Has always been that way.


That was the proto-type from earlier in the year. I think it's worth waiting for SHOT Show 2009 in a couple of weeks to see what SureFire has been up to and has planned...


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 1, 2009)

Now you're being unfair :whoopin:


----------



## Size15's (Jan 1, 2009)

All we have on these two concept lights is based on very old info.
I think it's reasonable to see whether it gets refreshed for 2009 at SHOT Show.


----------



## AlecGold (Jan 2, 2009)

Size15's said:


> All we have on these two concept lights is based on very old info.
> I think it's reasonable to see whether it gets refreshed for 2009 at SHOT Show.



But I still like that video, it's the first I've seen of the Optimus and that is nice!
When is the shot show 2009? end of januari?
But even the shot show won't give me a UA2 in my chubby hands, cause they only show the products, not sell them. 
At least I can't remember that such a thing happened ever. 
But it will be nice to se how the product evolves over time ::


----------



## MattK (Jan 2, 2009)

Size15's said:


> I think it's reasonable to see whether it gets refreshed for 2009 at SHOT Show.




You coming?


----------



## AA6TZ (Jan 2, 2009)

AlecGold said:


> But I still like that video, it's the first I've seen of the Optimus and that is nice!


 
+1 Both videos, featuring the Optimus and the Invictus, are quite nice! They sure serve to whet the Flashaholic appetite. 

-Clive


----------



## Size15's (Jan 2, 2009)

MattK said:


> You coming?


To SHOT Show 2009?
Nah - not planning to. If it was in Vegas then perhaps...


----------



## Hitthespot (Jan 2, 2009)

Size15's said:


> All we have on these two concept lights is based on very old info.
> I think it's reasonable to see whether it gets refreshed for 2009 at SHOT Show.


 

I think you know more than your letting on. Of course maybe you can't say anything, but based on your statement above it will be interesting to see what happens.

I just hope that what ever they unveil at the show is released within a reasonable amount of time this year.

Happy New Year

Bill


----------



## 1996alnl (Jan 2, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> Yes. Of course. What did you expect? Invictus=P7. Has always been that way.


 
Sorry Kiessling,didn't know what to expect.
Don't know too much about these lights. As size15's said we'll see what they have to offer in a few weeks.


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## Size15's (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm just going on experience.
We know about the concepts - we've seen the UA2 at SHOT Show 2008, and photos etc of the UB2 a few months after that.
Neither the UA2 nor the UB2 have been released.
No further product information/details have been released.
SureFire have stated they are working on them and that they're not ready yet.
SHOT Show is when SureFire show what they've been up to and have planned for the coming year.

If one assumes they've been working things through and ironing out issues these concepts should be in a far more 'finished' state and ready for production compared to last year.
That suggests that we may not have to wait another whole year to see these concepts released.

Al


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 2, 2009)

No need to be sorry 
No one knows what they will be like, after all. And Al just muddies the waters further :whoopin:

Until now, the Invicturs featured the P7.

bernie


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## Hitthespot (Jan 2, 2009)

Size15's said:


> I'm just going on experience.
> We know about the concepts - we've seen the UA2 at SHOT Show 2008, and photos etc of the UB2 a few months after that.
> Neither the UA2 nor the UB2 have been released.
> No further product information/details have been released.
> ...


 
That's reasonable Al. :wave:...............and I hope your right.

Happy New Year.

Bill


----------



## AlecGold (Jan 2, 2009)

Size15's said:


> I'm just going on experience.
> 
> That suggests that we may not have to wait another whole year to see these concepts released.
> 
> Al



bloody hell, I might hope so, because I wouldn't be able to withstand the pressure of having this money at the ready and not buying something!
I'm eyeballing a sterling silver Zippo. eyeballing, cause I like sterling, but I wouldn't in the world know when to use a Zippo and most of all because there is an Optimus with my name on it. Even if it hasn't been build yet, even if it hasn't been designed finally yet :S

But you are usually well informed, Size15, and even if your not informed on this one, I value your experience-fed-guesstimations highly!
So I'll sit tight, eyeballing a sterling silver zippo, not buying it and hoping that the UA2 arrives early Q1 2009, so I can still play with it on long, dark evenings and nights 
How do you feel about the idea that the UA2 could equal the reach of the UB2 by focussing? 

A bit off topic:
I'm certainly curious what this shot show might bring us from the SF guys. I won't be there, bit to costly for my budget (remember the UA2 that has my name on it, it must be paid ), but I would expect them to have some cool new things. 
Perhaps a brother or sister for the saint, perhaps a near production model for the UA2 or a replacement for the L5 as a full tactical light (a friend of mine sees the L5 as not good enough for his tactical operations and still relays on a M3T because he feels the 125 lumens incan is more like 2x as much as the 100 lumens led of the L5, when it comes to blinding, seems to do something with the limited light spectrum of leds? :duck: )
That remembers me that we haven't seen any turbo heads with a led and I'm very curious what such a large reflector would do to the reach. 
But that would need a lambertian emitting lens and I don't know if Cree's et al. are doing that.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 2, 2009)

AlecGold said:


> How do you feel about the idea that the UA2 could equal the reach of the UB2 by focussing?


That's the question.
If the UB2 has a beam ideally suited for use by operators with handguns, the UA2 could do with having this same beam in the middle of its range. Diffuse homogeneous wide beam at one end, and intense concentrated tight beam at the other.

I have a feeling that SureFire will evolve this Zoom Plate optical system over the next few years but hope this UA2 is a good start.


----------



## gottawearshades (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm curious about the UA2. I understand that we don't know what it will look like (if?)when it comes out, but for the folks who saw it at the convention last year:

Ideally, I am hoping for a light that would give me an all-throw beam at one end, like the KL1's square-beam, no-spillbeam optic, and on the other end all flood, like the M60F on the other end.

Is this what you saw at the SHOT Show?

Will my UA2 dreams come true?


----------



## Size15's (Jan 2, 2009)

gottawearshades said:


> I'm curious about the UA2. I understand that we don't know what it will look like (if?)when it comes out, but for the folks who saw it at the convention last year:
> 
> Ideally, I am hoping for a light that would give me an all-throw beam at one end, like the KL1's square-beam, no-spillbeam optic, and on the other end all flood, like the M60F on the other end.
> 
> ...


SureFire made proto-type UA2's for SHOT Show 2008 last year. A number of things about it were not finalised - for example they weren't happy with their Zoom Plate optics. I don't think any of the issues will impact the look for the UA2 though. That's not to say SureFire won't change it since it's still in development. The range of beam profile the UA2 could zoom through was not as 'extreme' as SureFire knew they could achieve with a bit more work. I like to think this is one of the things SureFire have spent 2008 refining.

Al


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## AlecGold (Jan 3, 2009)

Size15's said:


> The range of beam profile the UA2 could zoom through was not as 'extreme' as SureFire knew they could achieve with a bit more work. I like to think this is one of the things SureFire have spent 2008 refining.
> ]



That is a bit of info I didn't catch yet, but interesting news. 
And good to hear SureFire didn't release it anyway, even though they weren't happy with the zoom range. Because that is what you often see happen; "the product isn't perfect yet, but release it anyway, then we can start making money out of it". And a year later the "new and improved" version shows up, making me rather annoyed because I bought the first "old and unimproved" version and often at a premium!

So despite all my bickering and whining at SF for wanting a UA2, I still prefer a good through and through developed and tested one, over a hasty release. 
And IMHO it might be said (not to often, but once in a while ) that they make wonderful good build lights that need no maintenance (other than to feed it some batteries) and after all this time in this business still didn't cave in to the temptation of fast money, but keep on making excellent products at a decent price.


----------



## werdnawee (Jan 3, 2009)

Size15's said:


>


 
My how time flies.

When this photo originally was released, I didn't have any of these flashlights. Now I have the M3 and the 6P.

Just waiting for that Optimus!!!!!

And now I can imagine what the Optimus might feel like "in hand" compared to the other two.


----------



## KDOG3 (Jan 3, 2009)

Dang, the Optimus looks bigger than I expected. Its about the size of a C3 or so. I've been thinking of getting an M3 for years now, maybe I should just do that....


----------



## Size15's (Jan 3, 2009)

KDOG3 said:


> Dang, the Optimus looks bigger than I expected. Its about the size of a C3 or so. I've been thinking of getting an M3 for years now, maybe I should just do that....


When I handled that UA2 proto-type I noticed the length (which is why I photographed it next to an M3, and the L2)





However, it is actually not the length that is surprising - it is the slimness of it and that it feels light-weight.
The bezel diameter is the same as the Z32; so not even M2/KL5/U2/K2 diameter let alone M3/KL6.
When we caught eyes on the UB2 proto-type and it has the same Z32 diameter as the UA2 but a shorter bezel - now that's a real surprise given the 2008 catalog's assumption it would the UB2's bezel would be far larger.

Remember also that the UA2 and UB2 have a bezel-down [removable] PocketClip developed from the U2/K2/EW-04 so that makes carrying it very easy.


----------



## Yoda4561 (Jan 3, 2009)

That battery tube looks pretty thin, I take it there won't be any room for an 18650 in there :mecry: Actually it looks like it may even be too tight for a 17670


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 3, 2009)

The UB2 being smaller than than UA2 is a very nice surprise indeed. I want it even more now, more than the UA2.


----------



## AA6TZ (Jan 4, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> The UB2 being smaller than than UA2 is a very nice surprise indeed. *I want it even more now, more than the UA2.*


 
+1 !!!!! (and _THEN_ some!)

-Clive


----------



## Taboot (Jan 4, 2009)

Ratchet_Gear said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I found a video and pictures of the Optimus and Invictus and thought I should post it. You will find the videos at the bottom of the page. You might want to start both of them, mute the volume and let them load for 15-20 minutes so that you can see it continuously without it stopping on you 50 times. Just a WARNING, it is in Japanese and although the review is not the greatest as far as really going into detail, you can at least see them put through their paces.:thumbsup:
> 
> ...



Look at the Ridicule PK section to the left of the video. :thinking: There's some weird ones in there...

My guess is that it's still a good way out for the UA2/UB2.


----------



## iapyx (Jan 5, 2009)

Ratchet_Gear said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I found a video and pictures of the Optimus and Invictus and thought I should post it. You will find the videos at the bottom of the page. You might want to start both of them, mute the volume and let them load for 15-20 minutes so that you can see it continuously without it stopping on you 50 times. Just a WARNING, it is in Japanese and although the review is not the greatest as far as really going into detail, you can at least see them put through their paces.:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


 
I finally had the patience to start the videos. 
Just for the record: I think it's Korean, not Japanese.


----------



## Size15's (Jan 5, 2009)

A Korean link on www.SureFireKorea.com :green:
Perhaps Japanese is better suited to www.SureFire.jp :devil:
There's also www.SureFire.com.tw for Taiwan...
These site are run by SureFire's Distributors in these countries and so tend to have different perspectives.


----------



## Monkiee (Jan 5, 2009)

I think it would be cool if Surefire put a TIR optic into the Invictus. The beam would be more throw and still have sufficient spill like the E2DL. Thats just my 2 cents.  
WOW... Looking at the Surefire Distributors in Japan... I am so jealous. You can buy parts of every light. Guaranteed to suck your wallet dry.


----------



## Ratchet_Gear (Jan 5, 2009)

iapyx said:


> I finally had the patience to start the videos.
> Just for the record: I think it's Korean, not Japanese.


 
Yup, you are right. I should have looked at the link instead of just copying and pasting. It says Korea right in the link. LOL


----------



## leon2245 (Jan 9, 2009)

Would someone mind dumb9ing down all the switching posts from a few pages ago- I basically want to know if either the Invictus and/or Optimus will be able to go instantly, directly, to high, as well as directly to low.

I can't tell on the dials at the bezel, but if the first click was the low, with strobes etc in between, and you could just sweep the dial all the way to high (I.E. so you could do that as fast as you want because you just turn it til it stops), that would be instant enough for me.

I consider the A2 "instant" (enough for me anyways) to low and high, and I understand it's likened to that somewhat, but the dials are throwing me off.


----------



## Eric242 (Jan 9, 2009)

When you switch on the light with the tailcap it will start with whatever mode you selected at the selector ring. If you want it to start with high, just put the selector ring in position high. It´s also supposed to have MaxBlast - press the tailcap all the way down and you´ll have full brightness no matter what mode you selected.

At least that´s what the 2008 catalouge said.

Eric


----------



## 1996alnl (Jan 9, 2009)

The only thing that turns me off about these lights is the size.,too big for a 2 cell light but then again there's alot of technology in there.

It's just a matter of time until we see LED's that put out 350 lumens @100mA and have a lights that's do what the Invictus and Optimus do in a much smaller package.

It'll happen,technology always gets better.


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 9, 2009)

The real problem, IMHO of course, is the SOS and strobe at the outer edges of the selector dial. What are they thinking dammit?
I mean .. I want dial to high quickly or without visual control (like 99% of the times I do that) I end up in strobe, and in low I end up not with low but with SOS. Really cool. A big big problem and not KISS IMHO.

I hope they will correct that.

bernie


----------



## NoFair (Jan 9, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> The real problem, IMHO of course, is the SOS and strobe at the outer edges of the selector dial. What are they thinking dammit?
> I mean .. I want dial to high quickly or without visual control (like 99% of the times I do that) I end up in strobe, and in low I end up not with low but with SOS. Really cool. A big big problem and not KISS IMHO.
> 
> I hope they will correct that.
> ...


 
Didn't notice that one:shakehead

I use my U2 just like you said so unwanted strobing or SOS would probably occur quite a bit if they are at the outer edges...

Will still get one though

Sverre


----------



## Kiessling (Jan 9, 2009)

I have still hope as long as the lights aren't sold. Maybe they do implement a harder stop before the strobe and SOS. One can dream.
But I think this kind of dial is a real let-down.
bernie


P.S.: of course this won't stop me from getting one


----------



## HKJ (Jan 9, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> The real problem, IMHO of course, is the SOS and strobe at the outer edges of the selector dial. What are they thinking dammit?
> I mean .. I want dial to high quickly or without visual control (like 99% of the times I do that) I end up in strobe, and in low I end up not with low but with SOS. Really cool. A big big problem and not KISS IMHO.
> 
> I hope they will correct that.
> ...



If it have click stops it is possible to feel for the correct position.
But I do not like the off-sos-1-2-3-... sequence, I wold have prefered that it is off-1-2-3-... and then in the top ...-max-sos-strobe or remove/hide sos from the normal sequence. That could be done by making it this way: strobe-sos-off-1-2-3-... and then some sort of mechanical lock to get from off to sos.


----------



## leon2245 (Jan 9, 2009)

Yeah that's what I was trying to explain, if the settings at the extreme ends, the stops of the dial, those I consider easy to instant-on to, because you can do it super fast.

Otherwise it requires finesse. I have little. Maybe you learn, muscle memory etc. But if it's as Eric explained, and as long as S.O.S. and strobes etc are not in between the low settings, then if MaxBurst = high full depress that is still O.K. to me.

Now choosing which one is going to be tough!


----------



## iapyx (Jan 10, 2009)

Kiessling said:


> The real problem, IMHO of course, is the SOS and strobe at the outer edges of the selector dial. What are they thinking dammit?
> I mean .. I want dial to high quickly or without visual control (like 99% of the times I do that) I end up in strobe, and in low I end up not with low but with SOS. Really cool. A big big problem and not KISS IMHO.
> 
> I hope they will correct that.
> ...


 
you hit the right spot here. It´s exacly what my point of critisism is. 
It is the way I use my u2. Without looking at the selector ring I can find low or high blindly. As far as the UA2 and UB2 are concerned: I wish that for reaching sos and strobe the ring will have some extra resistance, but that will likely not be the case.


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jan 10, 2009)

*Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*

I saw a Surefire UA2 Optimus flashlight in my Basspro catalog last night. It was priced at $279.00 and was rated at 2-200 lumens and adjusts from spot to flood. Is this light the optimus I have been hearing alot of cpf'ers raving about? If I am right, this light according to CPF has not been released yet. I have had that catalog for atleast 3 months. It did not really look much larger than a 6P to me in the photo. One awesome light! To expensive for me.... Would be awesome to have though.


----------



## MSaxatilus (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*

Interesting.

I just checked their web site and it is not listed there. I will check my catalogs when I get home and see if I can find it in there.

MSax


----------



## blitzlicht65 (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*



I've found a website in germany where the Optimus is listed and you can pre-order one. The releasing is expected in ~February.

http://www.outdoor-treasure.de/_py_Lampen-Surefire-Neue-Modelle-2008/c-26-36-83-0-0-0/




:wave:


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*

I will check my catolog and see if there are any preorder issues. 



kyhunter1 said:


> I saw a Surefire UA2 Optimus flashlight in my Basspro catalog last night. It was priced at $279.00 and was rated at 2-200 lumens and adjusts from spot to flood. Is this light the optimus I have been hearing alot of cpf'ers raving about? If I am right, this light according to CPF has not been released yet. I have had that catalog for atleast 3 months. It did not really look much larger than a 6P to me in the photo. One awesome light! To expensive for me.... Would be awesome to have though.


----------



## kyhunter1 (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*

Just got off the phone with customer service at Basspro. They told me that this light was sold out and discontinued. It was listed in the 2008 Hunting catalog I got last fall and did not say anything about preordering. Guess they got a limited number from Surefire and already sold out. Could have been a mistake when the catalogs were printed. I dont see why Basspro would get them several months before anybody else. 





kyhunter1 said:


> I will check my catolog and see if there are any preorder issues.


----------



## tsl (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*



kyhunter1 said:


> Just got off the phone with customer service at Basspro. They told me that this light was sold out and discontinued. It was listed in the 2008 Hunting catalog I got last fall and did not say anything about preordering. Guess they got a limited number from Surefire and already sold out. Could have been a mistake when the catalogs were printed. I dont see why Basspro would get them several months before anybody else.


 
There were preorder threads on CPF by Surefire dealers, and no one that I am aware of received either of these lights.

It's possible that Basspro said that they were discontinued because Surefire was not able to give a firm date when they would be available. I used to work for a catalog company, and it was standard practice to do something similar to that in this kind of a situation. We said that the item was "delayed" and could not be ordered, but maybe Basspro decided to flag it as "discontinued." 

Anyway, I guess we'll know from the Shot Show the future of these lights.


----------



## Eric242 (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*



blitzlicht65 said:


> I've found a website in germany where the Optimus is listed and you can pre-order one. The releasing is expected in ~February.


And only 369.- Euro - that´s about $502. Stay calm US guys, no reason to get a heart attack, that´s what us EU people have to pay for Surefire. We´re used to it.
Honestly, I think that dealer gambles and counts on a shot show release. Otherwise there would have been US dealers promoting the light and releasedate already.

Eric


----------



## iapyx (Jan 10, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*



kyhunter1 said:


> I saw a Surefire UA2 Optimus flashlight in my Basspro catalog last night. It was priced at $279.00 and was rated at 2-200 lumens and adjusts from spot to flood. Is this light the optimus I have been hearing alot of cpf'ers raving about? If I am right, this light according to CPF has not been released yet. I have had that catalog for atleast 3 months. It did not really look much larger than a 6P to me in the photo. One awesome light! To expensive for me.... Would be awesome to have though.


 

yes, that UA2 aka Optimus is the light next to the UB2 aka Invictus that a lot of CPF´ers have been and are still waiting for. It´s even in the title of this thread. This whole thread is full of messages of people eagerly waiting till it´s being released. Read the whole thread and you´ll be updated with all the info there is.


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## AlecGold (Jan 11, 2009)

*Re: Surefire Optimus flashlight in Basspro Catalog*



iapyx said:


> Read the whole thread and you´ll be updated with all the info there is.



And you're a couple of hours further down the road There have been a lot of messages about this one.


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## evenchaos (Jan 11, 2009)

HKJ said:


> That could be done by making it this way: strobe-sos-off-1-2-3-... and then some sort of mechanical lock to get from off to sos.



+1


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## Ryanrpm (Jan 11, 2009)

So, to save someone from reading all 16 pages of this thread, is there someone who can give us the latest on when the Invictus or Optimus will be released? Or, is that the question of the year?


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## iapyx (Jan 11, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> So, to save someone from reading all 16 pages of this thread, is there someone who can give us the latest on when the Invictus or Optimus will be released? Or, is that the question of the year?


 

it is the question of the year (2008 and 2009) indeed.
Maybe PK (SF) knows, maybe not. We don´t know.
Since it has not yet been released you won´t find it listed on SF´s site with a pricetag on it. You will find it however in the 2008 SF catalogue which is downloadable from their site.


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## Yoda4561 (Jan 11, 2009)

Ryanrpm said:


> So, to save someone from reading all 16 pages of this thread, is there someone who can give us the latest on when the Invictus or Optimus will be released? Or, is that the question of the year?



Yes, the answer is "when they think it's done". Hopefully sometime this year


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## Ratchet_Gear (Jan 11, 2009)

Does anyone know if there is any truth to the large military demand for the Optimus/Invictus which could be the reason for the long drawn out delay?


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## BabyDoc (Jan 11, 2009)

When is the 2009 SureFire catalog expected? It will be interesting to see if they even bother to feature this light in the catalog, let alone the cover like they did in 2008. I am sure they are sick of all the calls asking for a release date.


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## zx7dave (Jan 11, 2009)

Ratchet_Gear said:


> Does anyone know if there is any truth to the large military demand for the Optimus/Invictus which could be the reason for the long drawn out delay?


 

Not that I have heard...and I'm stll in a pretty good place to hear rumors like that. However since a lot of military folks aren't true flashaholic's, this could be a possibility of why the release is taking so long as it needs to be simple to operate as well as very rugged. Uncle Sam would have to fit deep in his pockets to outfit all the elite forces with these since they have already committed so much money to the M3T over the past years... 
Kinda makes you wonder...SureFire's are fairly unbreakable....so why isn't the world still saturated with what would now be considered vintage SureFires? Are they all in collectors hands or are people simply throwing them away and buying new models? Examples am talking about would be 3P's, 12P's etc...I can't imagine that more than 20% were ever damaged to the point they would never work again...and there is the SureFire warranty...hmmm


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## Size15's (Jan 11, 2009)

Ratchet_Gear said:


> Does anyone know if there is any truth to the large military demand for the Optimus/Invictus which could be the reason for the long drawn out delay?


I suggest that the 'large military demand' was for other products, such as the new WeaponLight made [at least to start with] for the military only (which nobody here seems to spot when it briefly appeared, as usual, by mistake on www.SureFire.com), which meant that SureFire was not able to resource projects like the UA2/UB2 etc.


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## Ratchet_Gear (Jan 11, 2009)

zx7dave said:


> Not that I have heard...and I'm stll in a pretty good place to hear rumors like that. However since a lot of military folks aren't true flashaholic's, this could be a possibility of why the release is taking so long as it needs to be simple to operate as well as very rugged. Uncle Sam would have to fit deep in his pockets to outfit all the elite forces with these since they have already committed so much money to the M3T over the past years...
> Kinda makes you wonder...SureFire's are fairly unbreakable....so why isn't the world still saturated with what would now be considered vintage SureFires? Are they all in collectors hands or are people simply throwing them away and buying new models? Examples am talking about would be 3P's, 12P's etc...I can't imagine that more than 20% were ever damaged to the point they would never work again...and there is the SureFire warranty...hmmm


 


Size15's said:


> I suggest that the 'large military demand' was for other products, such as the new WeaponLight made [at least to start with] for the military only (which nobody here seems to spot when it briefly appeared, as usual, by mistake on www.SureFire.com), which meant that SureFire was not able to resource projects like the UA2/UB2 etc.


 

I was just curious becuase I went to the LApolicegear web site and saw this "*Pre-Order Item - There is no definite ETA on this item as Surefire is experiencing a large military demand.*" on the discription page for the Optimus.


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## WDR65 (Jan 11, 2009)

Size15's said:


> I suggest that the 'large military demand' was for other products, such as the new WeaponLight made [at least to start with] for the military only (which nobody here seems to spot when it briefly appeared, as usual, by mistake on www.SureFire.com), which meant that SureFire was not able to resource projects like the UA2/UB2 etc.



Al,
Were you referring to the M952V or is there something else? 

I am expecting something else to pop up on their site this week. Perhaps like the E1B did last year. Though I'm not holding my breath.


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## Size15's (Jan 11, 2009)

WDR65 said:


> Al,
> Were you referring to the M952V or is there something else?
> 
> I am expecting something else to pop up on their site this week. Perhaps like the E1B did last year. Though I'm not holding my breath.


Yep the M952V.
It made like only one thread with hardly any posts.


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## Ryanrpm (Jan 11, 2009)

Is the Invictus supposed to be a thrower? The pictures I've seen show it with an OP reflector.


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## DM51 (Jan 12, 2009)

Please continue here.


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