# "XX-LOLA" for Surefire M6: WA1336!



## 325addict (Feb 11, 2010)

Well, finally I made the decision: I bought 21 WA 1336 lamps from Canada (that's a looong way to the Netherlands!) as this might be my last chance: the WA 1336 has been discontinued by Welch Allyn....

It makes the perfect long-running lamp for 2X 18650 in your M6. 3 hours can easily be reached with 2X AW 18650-2600s.

Specs are:

6V 0.64A 56Lm 525h

re-rated to 7.4V this will become:

7.4V 0.72A 116Lm 40h

This in addition to the "X-LOLA" MN15 from Surefire, (originally designed for M3T), this one draws 1.15A and will give 2 hours runtime on 2X AW 18650-2600s.

Because this WA 1136 lamp has quite a short filament, it can be focused tightly. Output is bright white when overdriven to 7.4V!

To run these lamps in your M6, you need an FM "MN bi-pin adapter" and a 2X 18650 battery holder for Surefire M6, sold by Mdocod here.
And, of course, two good 18650s and a charger 


Timmo.


----------



## Kestrel (Feb 11, 2010)

Very nice. I still remember being very impressed after reading js's M6 X-LOLA thread.

That is a lot of bulbs (21!). You'll have to post back here once you get a handle on how long each bulb tends to last in that configuration. :thumbsup: Perhaps less life than the MN15 in this light, but an even whiter output and greater lumens per watt?


----------



## Dioni (Feb 11, 2010)

Interesting XX-LOLA bulb. if could take some beamshots when it has arrived, would be even more interesting... 

Cheers
Dioni


----------



## 325addict (Feb 11, 2010)

it _has_ arrived already. But, as I don't know how to post pics here, the pictures won't come :mecry:
But I can tell you: these lamps are better than I could have expected. After all, they are only about 5 Watts...

Timmo.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 11, 2010)

Yes - a pic or two would be great.

Does anyone know of any X or XX-LOLA lamps that would work with 3 Li cells - specifically running FM 3x17670 holder? It would be nice to have a lamp that I could get 2 hours of runtime out of a charge - I guess this would put it in 10W territory. 

Sorry to the OP - not trying to steal your thread but other options seem on topic.


----------



## 325addict (Feb 11, 2010)

@ ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond:

this is only a good addition to what I wrote already - and I know of some Carley lamps that fit the bill. 11.5V and about 600 - 700mA. I will dig into this - as I have them at home! Now, I'm at work, so I can't tell right away...

Timmo.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 11, 2010)

From what have read in Lux's incan charts it looks like the CL-809 at 10.5v @ 12.6W is the closest I can find so far. But it's not available anywhere at the moment. Also the WA1306 seems like a possibility - but again, not available anywhere.


----------



## 325addict (Feb 12, 2010)

You could try one of these:

WA1108: 12V 1.0A 40h life (note: this one is driven hard @12V!)
re-rated to 11.1V this will become:
11.1V 0.96A 102h life
This will result in one-and-a-half hour of service @ 3X 17670.

Or try the WA 1314: 10.2V 0.98A 1000h (note: not driven hard, 1000h life!)
re-rated to 11.1V this will become:
11.1V 1.03A 362h

I bought the WA1108, as this one seems to be more suitable to be driven from 3 Li-ion cells. Never had any regret: is is still quite bright (it is damn white and bright @ 12V!)

Alternatively, you _could _try one of these Carley-bulbs:

871: 11.5V 0.63A 123Lm
926: 11.5V 0.83A 200Lm

BUT: these are very long lamps, with the filament much higher from the base than the WA-lamps. Thus, you can't focus them very well in an FM bi-pin adapter, because these have been designed more or less for the WA-lamps. You'll have to use thick spacers (several mm!) between the reflector and the bi-pin adapter in order to get it OK. Problems could arise with the springs then...
If you DO get them OK however, the first one will result in more than 2 hours of service!

I hope this helps,

Timmo.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 12, 2010)

325addict said:


> I bought the WA1108, as this one seems to be more suitable to be driven from 3 Li-ion cells. Never had any regret: is is still quite bright (it is damn white and bright @ 12V!)


 

Very helpful - thanks. But where are you able to find these bulbs for sale? I can't find them in stock anywhere.


----------



## 325addict (Feb 12, 2010)

WA1336 in Canada, the rest at e-lectronics.net (or something like that).
BUT: I bought them all :green:

Timmo.


----------



## Steve in SoCal (Feb 13, 2010)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> Yes - a pic or two would be great.
> 
> Does anyone know of any X or XX-LOLA lamps that would work with 3 Li cells - specifically running FM 3x17670 holder? It would be nice to have a lamp that I could get 2 hours of runtime out of a charge - I guess this would put it in 10W territory.
> 
> Sorry to the OP - not trying to steal your thread but other options seem on topic.



Try the WA 1326. 

Tech specs:
Voltage 12v
Wattage 9.6
current(amps) 0.8
filament diameter(mm) 2.79
filament length(mm) 2.79
bulb diameter(mm) 7.1
lamp size T2-1/4
lumens at 12v 171
hours at 12v 1000 (1274)
color temp at spec 3,090
efficacy 17.8

I have not used them but JSLAPPA was selling some a little while ago:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?t=206991


----------



## jslappa (Feb 21, 2010)

All the details are in my sales thread. $1 each if you want any.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks for that info - ya know for a XX-LOLA light I am not sure a super tight throw beam would be needed the a few shims would probably be fine as long as you use the short spring on the FM MN bi-pin.

Unfortunately I have modified my thinking since posting in this thread. After a weekend in the woods I started up this thread: https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/261709 and have realized that a light does best at what it is good for. The M6 is designed to throw big light really far, not illuminate your tent for reading while you are trying to fall asleep.

I am going to keep the M6 spec'ed for what it's purpose is and run proper bulbs with proper batteries. That said I think my future specs for the M6 are going to be:


WA1185 / MB-20 / 6xIMR16340 - same runtime on full as 17670 but brighter because the batteries can handle the load.
HO-M6R / FM 3x17670 - good all around light
WA1111 or IMR-M3T / 2xIMR18650
HO-M3T / MB-20 / 6xCR123 - good enough long life setup still with brightness and 1.5 hour runtim on new bats (2Amps). With Softstart on Low still about 3+ hours runtime.

For my XX-LOLA setups and I going to stick with either my E2e w/ HO-E1R on 17670 or my NDI which will run for over a full day at low and give plenty of light for general pruposes.

I've found for woods walking the E2e with FM04 diffuser and the above setup for general navigation and a M6 or M3 to push light deep into the trees for a look around every once and a while is a great combo.

Basically - all I am saying is that for that XX-LOLA light you are better off with something tiny (or dare I say it LED - but it better be a neutral to warm LED darnit!!!)

Sorry if I got a little of topic - but I think I stayed with the point of the thread.


----------



## 325addict (Feb 22, 2010)

I basically go for the XX-LOLAs not only because they have less light... they have more runtime also! Smal flashlights mean small batteries, and short runtime. 2X 18650 will provide enough energy to power the WA1331 for at least three hours - which is way better than the sub-1-hour most powerful setups have...

Timmo.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 22, 2010)

325addict said:


> I basically go for the XX-LOLAs not only because they have less light... they have more runtime also! Smal flashlights mean small batteries, and short runtime. 2X 18650 will provide enough energy to power the WA1331 for at least three hours - which is way better than the sub-1-hour most powerful setups have...
> 
> Timmo.


 
I don't know if I fully agree with that statement. E2e with 17670 and HO-E1R is just under 2 hours runtime (6 hours on 3 batteries). E2e with MN02 and 2xCR123 is 2.5 hours runtime. 

What do you do if you are carrying the xx-lola M6 and you want a strong blast of light? Carry 2 M6s?

I know I've gone a full 180 here but real experience hiking with these lights has shown me that playing indoors and practical uses of lights outdoors are two totally different things.


----------



## jslappa (Feb 22, 2010)

I personally find the appeal of these XX LOLA bulbs in using the big lights more often, and for a longer run time. For example, I have over $450 into my Megalennium. It's a shame to have it sitting on the shelf 99% of its life. 1185's are becoming harder to come by, and their useful life on 3 x 18650's or 3 x 17670's is what, 20 hours? Why spend $13 for ONE bulb, giving 50 lumens, when you could get 150+ lumens, running for 3 times as long. Even longer if you use the AW softstart. 

150ish lumens in a big reflector like the KT4 would be perfect for the woods and camping. Add a diffuser, and you have some really useable light. I just don't subscribe to the idea that a light like the M6 should be relegated to the HO pile, when there are super long runtime options for it. It seems to me that the more options you give yourself for one light, the better rounded it is, and the more situations you will have the opportunity to use such an awesome light. 

Of course, I still never go anywhere without my Sunspot D10 with Q3 5A. Often times, I'll load my M3 with the 1326 and 3 x IMR 123's. I can pull that bulb and insert the 1185 for 1234 lumens quickly enough.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 23, 2010)

jslappa said:


> It's a shame to have it sitting on the shelf 99% of its life.


 
I completely agree - which is why I have a diffuser and a SoftStart for my M6 and with the three levels it provides I get many uses aroung the garage with it. It's just for a light that size, the tasks which I would need 100 lumens for I don't think I would want to lug out a huge light.



jslappa said:


> 1185's are becoming harder to come by,


 
Bulbconnection.com has plenty of them in stock and for only $9 a piece.



jslappa said:


> and their useful life on 3 x 18650's or 3 x 17670's is what, 20 hours?


 
If you are using a softstart the likelyhood is that you are underdriving the bulb most of the time if you look at the output RMS voltage on low and med.



jslappa said:


> Even longer if you use the AW softstart.


 
Completely agree with use of a SoftStart - and it even works with LED LAs althugh there is a bit of flicker because I measured the PWM a ~100Hz which is fine for the slow response time of a filament but is noticeable on the quick on/off response time of an LED.



jslappa said:


> 150ish lumens in a big reflector like the KT4 would be perfect for the woods and camping. Add a diffuser, and you have some really useable light. I just don't subscribe to the idea that a light like the M6 should be relegated to the HO pile, when there are super long runtime options for it. It seems to me that the more options you give yourself for one light, the better rounded it is, and the more situations you will have the opportunity to use such an awesome light.


 
The M6 will always have a place in my arsenal, just at the brighter end of the spectrum where smaller lights would have to over-driven and get really hot fast. Besides, look at where we are here - to limit oneself to the use of just one light would be self-masochism.  ............. 



jslappa said:


> Of course, I still never go anywhere without my Sunspot D10 with Q3 5A. Often times, I'll load my M3 with the 1326 and 3 x IMR 123's. I can pull that bulb and insert the 1185 for 1234 lumens quickly enough.


 
Before I go out I usually give each light I bring a purpose, so once i have my jacket or pockets loaded with the lights for the trip I don't want to have to worry about switching LAs all the time.

Anywho.... not trying to start a back and forth arguement here. Just expressing an alternate way of thinking. So let's not start digressing from the OP to much and . Let's all :grouphug: and enjoy our M6's for the rocking lights they whether your light bulbs are bright or dim. And, if someone happens to use the CB for the alternate purpose Surefire intended and beats the snot out of someone with it - please let us know how it performs after.


----------



## 325addict (Feb 24, 2010)

@ Shineonyoucrazydiamond:

"XXLOLA" is a relative... you still have plenty of light in the woods with that {edit} WA1336 and two 18650s in your M6.... yes, I actually tried that :thumbsup:

Then, runtime in more important than to be able to see 30 meters instead of 10...


Timmo.


----------



## jslappa (Feb 24, 2010)

SOYCD, indeed. I certainly don't want to derail this thread, and I really don't see any fault in anything you've said. After all, we all have our own ideas about what is best, what is not enough and what is too much. 

I also agree that taking the M6 somewhere, knowing full well you only need 100 lumens is a bit overkill


----------



## jaundice (Feb 25, 2010)

What I'm about to say might be blasphemy, but I think sometimes we focus too much on high output, especially in the incan world. In reality, a little light goes a long way, even in an M6. The beauty of the M6 is the KT4 Turbohead, which will still throw with less light, and has a great beam.

This thread has prompted me to get some 6v 10w bulbs off ebay to see how they work. Re-rated to 7.4v, I expect them to run at 16w, about half of an 1111. I think this will be a perfect balance of enough output to have some throw, and not too much that the reflected light blinds me.

Good luck!

-John


----------



## mikevelarde (Feb 25, 2010)

I got a bunch of WA1326 bulb from jslappa . and it is perfect for my current recurring nighttime power outage use!! the WA1185 is too bright for my night adopted vision even with an AW soft start on LOW. 

I've been using it in my megalennium since last week together with my other megalennium with WA1185. when I need more light. I use the WA1185, when I need lights to see where I'm going around the house. I use the WA1326 on LOW!!


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 25, 2010)

mikevelarde said:


> when I need lights to see where I'm going around the house. I use the WA1326 on LOW!!


 
mikev - you are a true M6 over at heart to be carrying that all around the house with you.

I've tried - believe me, but around the house I just want something I can throw in my sweat pants pocket without it pulling the sweat pants down to my knees. :sick2: I love my YG A2 on AW LiFePO4for that role.


----------



## mikevelarde (Feb 25, 2010)

ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond said:


> mikev - you are a true M6 over at heart to be carrying that all around the house with you.
> 
> I've tried - believe me, but around the house I just want something I can throw in my sweat pants pocket without it pulling the sweat pants down to my knees. :sick2:


 
SOYCD:

It just happen that all those lights are within reach when I need them. they are all charged up and ready to go. I don't carry the m6 in my sweat pant pocket!!:naughty:


----------



## 325addict (Feb 26, 2010)

The same here: right in the middle of my living room, there are at least 10 lights, ready to grab, all with fresh batteries. Ranging from E1E to Megalennium and MagCharger, or FM 2,5D Mag, anything I want is ready to use 

Timmo.


----------



## ShineOnYouCrazyDiamond (Feb 26, 2010)

mikevelarde said:


> SOYCD:
> 
> It just happen that all those lights are within reach when I need them. they are all charged up and ready to go. I don't carry the m6 in my sweat pant pocket!!:naughty:


 
LOL - I just keep a light in every room of the house. I even have an Excel Spreadsheet of my lights and where they are.

I keep one WTSHTF light by the front door and one in the bedroom. The others are configured more for the XX-LOLA this thread talks about. My C2 running a LF ES-9 is 150 lumens on high and nice floody ~30-40 lumens on low just enough to see around with (especially with a diffuser on - Everyone should have a diffuser for their lights). 

So fully understanding and appreciating the ability to obtain a XX-LOLA setup, just not in the M6 for me.


----------



## 325addict (Mar 2, 2010)

Then, I have the ultimate low-level D26 incan-dropins: Lumens Factory designed an 8V / 500mA bulb for me, and put it in a D26 reflector! The ES-9 is, IIRC, still 800 or 850mA?

This one is still amazingly bright, about the brightness of a P60! And that with only 4 Watts of power 

Timmo.


----------

