# Best Current Running Headlamp



## wacomme (Dec 15, 2009)

I'm new to headlamps and running at night. I've tried to filter through the postings, but the more I read the more confused I become. As a trail runner (Colorado front range mountain trails), I need to navigate the terrain as I run downhill. My current setup is a Black Diamond (model MM5990??) with separate flood and beam settings. It's a 3 AAA model and it works ok. I also have an old Jetstream MXIIX that I haven't used yet since I don't know how running with a light in my hand will work. 

Anyway, I'm looking for a good running setup. Any thoughts or ideas?

Thank you.

Michael


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## Stevie (Dec 15, 2009)

PT Eos with the Rebel LED (50 lumen) gives a nice mix of throw and flood and shows up the whole width of the trail.

It runs off 3 AAA's. If you used lithium batteries, you can get the full 50 lumen output (giving a 54m beam) regulated for 6 hours (now that's a long run!).

Put standard duracell coppertops in and the 50 lumen will run for 1 hour constant, or you could drop down to the middle power setting (which by the way is perfectly adequate with dark adapted eyes and will light up the trail for around 30 metres ahead) and get 10 hours regulated run time.

I do find that it is bigger than most 3 AAA set ups, and might feel a little heavier than say a Petzl Tikka. But the beam alone more than makes up for this.

I would also look out for the new Fenix headlamps HP15 (2 AA) and HL20 (1 AA) as both of these seem light enough to run with and have bags of power, more so than the Eos I have mentioned above. HP15 will supposedly have 180 lumen of light regulated for 1.8 hours. Trouble is, these lights are yet to be released!

Best regards - Steve


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 15, 2009)

Same question was asked 49 new posts ago .

And others a few days before those .

Look at the "Archive" thread *titles* recently posted in the "Headlamp" Archives.

Also this .


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## wacomme (Dec 15, 2009)

Steve,

Thank you. Perhaps I'll wait for reviews of the Fenix HP15 and HL20. When are they expected to be available for sale?


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## wacomme (Dec 15, 2009)

Steve,

Thank you. Perhaps I'll wait for reviews of the Fenix HP15 and HL20. When are they expected to be available for sale?


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 15, 2009)

Many runners that posted in those previous threads , said that "flood" headlamps are better than "spot" headlamps .

So you're not "following a bouncing ball of light" .
.


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## uplite (Dec 15, 2009)

Good point.

Unfortunately "flood" and "spot" are ambiguous. If you want the best lighting for a specific task, you have go numeric...figure out the best beam spread in _degrees_.

For trail running, a 100-degree headlamp beam is too diffuse...but a 5-degree spot is too blinding & bouncy. 

In between...say 30-degree spread...is that a flood, or a spot? 

I don't know what the ideal spread is for your trail running style. Maybe check out the mountain-bike forums, and see what the really dedicated night-riders are using on rough trails. Then widen the beam a bit for your slower speed on foot. :thumbsup:

-Jeff


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## wacomme (Dec 15, 2009)

Good point. What is ideal? I suppose that depends upon the trail. Is the trail narrow and rocky or is it wide and smooth? How fast are you moving? Over rough terrain I'm moving more slowly and looking only a short distance in front of me, carefully selecting the placement of each footstep. When the trail is smooth and consistent, I'm looking down the trail and not at my feet. 

Perhaps an adjustable light is ideal, more "flood" for the technical sections of trail and more "spot" for smoother, faster trails. Does such a light exist?



uplite said:


> Good point.
> 
> Unfortunately "flood" and "spot" are ambiguous. If you want the best lighting for a specific task, you have go numeric...figure out the best beam spread in _degrees_.
> 
> ...


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## uplite (Dec 15, 2009)

wacomme said:


> Perhaps an adjustable light is ideal, more "flood" for the technical sections of trail and more "spot" for smoother, faster trails. Does such a light exist?


I know at least one manufacturer (coast / led lenser) makes focusing headlamps. Probably some others. They are likely to be heavier and bulkier than fixed-focus headlamps though. And the faster you move, the more the weight matters...

-Jeff


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## rmteo (Dec 15, 2009)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/201250


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## dirtech (Dec 15, 2009)

Why not a quark with the prizm? Gives you some flexibility for some throw and flood with the diffuser. the AA I have should make a very light headlamp as well.


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## wacomme (Dec 15, 2009)

I'm not familiar with the quark or prizm.


dirtech said:


> Why not a quark with the prizm? Gives you some flexibility for some throw and flood with the diffuser. the AA I have should make a very light headlamp as well.


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## Jagge (Dec 16, 2009)

I think it depends. On road you dont need much light, any lightweigt lamp will do. On trails you'll do fine if you are not taking it too seriously, you are just jogging slowly or you use headlamp only as a backup if darkens comes before you hoped. But you take night trail running even a litle bit more seriously you should forget those low output headlamp and get a more serious one. Like Lupine Tesla, nice but expensive or Magickshine P7, about similar but cheap. Typical setup is carrying battery in back zip pocket of running pants, wire under shirt/jacket. Like this the weight on head isn't too much. Additional weight is in back pocket, 200g battery goes there nicely. And you dont need to have vest / backpack.

For example last week I ran 7 hours with similar setup, 2 x P7 headlamp (my avatar) and battery pack in zip pocked. I am sure if you try a setup like that once you will never go back to those low output (less than 300 lumens) lights. Or this is how I see it, some may think not seeing well is part of the fun, for me it isn't.


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## zemmo (Dec 16, 2009)

Has anyone tried the BD Sprinter? It's supposedly designed for runners, 68 lumens, lithium polymer battery, etc. Just curious.


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## wacomme (Dec 16, 2009)

Wow! The Magickshine P7 sounds very interesting. Does anyone else run this this setup? Like you, I want to see. Night running isn't my preference; it's a necessity. 



Jagge said:


> I think it depends. On road you dont need much light, any lightweigt lamp will do. On trails you'll do fine if you are not taking it too seriously, you are just jogging slowly or you use headlamp only as a backup if darkens comes before you hoped. But you take night trail running even a litle bit more seriously you should forget those low output headlamp and get a more serious one. Like Lupine Tesla, nice but expensive or Magickshine P7, about similar but cheap. Typical setup is carrying battery in back zip pocket of running pants, wire under shirt/jacket. Like this the weight on head isn't too much. Additional weight is in back pocket, 200g battery goes there nicely. And you dont need to have vest / backpack.
> 
> For example last week I ran 7 hours with similar setup, 2 x P7 headlamp (my avatar) and battery pack in zip pocked. I am sure if you try a setup like that once you will never go back to those low output (less than 300 lumens) lights. Or this is how I see it, some may think not seeing well is part of the fun, for me it isn't.


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## wacomme (Dec 16, 2009)

Does the Magickshine P7 feel heavy on the head? What kind of headstrap do you use?


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## Jagge (Dec 17, 2009)

wacomme said:


> Does the Magickshine P7 feel heavy on the head? What kind of headstrap do you use?



I don't have Magickshine myself (I use DIY and Lupine lights), but I know it is getting popular in Scandinavia. Some of my frinds has it. Some are happy with the original Magickshine headstrap, some has got better strap. Weight is about 120..130g (lamp + headstrap), that's not much at all if strap is fine.

Here is a video I took year ago while running with an other SSC P7 headlamp. Crappy video quality but gives some idea how well you see with a light like that. Off trail running in darkness is no problem.


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## Offroad'Bent (Dec 17, 2009)

Jagge said:


> I don't have Magickshine myself (I use DIY and Lupine lights), but I know it is getting popular in Scandinavia.



Jagge, the other night I forgot my Fenix and borrowed an Ay-up. 2 unregulated 150 lumen Crees I think. Very light and bright, with a li-Po pack on the back. Sure, it will dim out due to lack of regulation and has no brightness setting, but it was simple and easy.

I think you could sell a kit like yours, no problem.


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## Outdoors Fanatic (Dec 17, 2009)

PT EOS Rebel 4-modes.


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## Jagge (Dec 17, 2009)

Offroad'Bent said:


> borrowed an Ay-up



I guess Ay-up will have xp-g upgrade soon (may already be avalable, I don't know for sure). 

I am not a big fan of back of head battery packs. I have quite nice that kind of light too, but it's kind of choosing between belt pack (=more light & less weight on head but a bit more overall weight) and back of head pack (=less light, less overall weight but more weight on head) and I usually end up choosing the belt version (for better runnability).



Offroad'Bent said:


> I think you could sell a kit like yours, no problem.



There is already Nailbender's p60 dropins (P7, MCE or linger special). Just hose clamp, had strap some wire and battery pack and you are about done.


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## wacomme (Dec 17, 2009)

Are people selling these DIY headlamps? How do I find out more information about them. Also, is there more than one brand of P7?


Jagge said:


> There is already Nailbender's p60 dropins (P7, MCE or linger special). Just hose clamp, had strap some wire and battery pack and you are about done.


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## xcandrew (Dec 17, 2009)

I just got my Magicshine headlamp in the mail yesterday. I ran home from work with it, and also went for a 2 hour ski with it. It's very nice for running and skiing - much brighter (maybe 10x the lumens?) than my modified Eos with McGizmo reflector, which was actually adequate for running and skiing, just not super. A modified Eos is still about as good as it gets for running for something that easily fits in your pocket. I'm not sure how well beam of the newer Eos with the Rebel emitter compares with my modified Eos, though reports suggest that it is better than the too-narrow spot of the unmodified original Eos.

The headstrap/lamp combo of the Magicshine weighs 157g on my scale, including some rubber bands that I added to guide the cord around the back of the headstrap. I got my headstrap from geomangear.com as an accessory, so it's possible that it is different from the Deal Extreme one, but it works fine and is very stable for running.

I use the extension cord (30 g) that comes with the geomangear version of the lamp to run the battery (206 g) down inside my jacket to a pocket.

The beam is a warm white. The flood part of the beam is about 83 degrees and the spot part of the beam is about 14 degrees. The beam looks smooth and almost flawless on a white wall (it has a nice orange peel reflector), but I do notice a dark donut around the spot on the snowy trail where the beam hits the ground obliquely. It provides plenty of reach and plenty of flood - you need both for running, skiing, night orienteering, and biking in the dark, so I'd say it's a good beam.

On the snow (and only on the snow, I think), the spot part of the beam turns kind of gross yellow-green, while the flood part of the beam is faintly purplish. I saw similar colors with the warm white SSC P4 in the Eos that I modified for my girlfriend, so I think that's just the way warm white SSC emitters look on snow when used with a reflector. The cool(?) white SSC P4 on my own Eos is uniform in color between the spot and flood parts of the beam on snow, so I prefer it's color to the warm version. That said, the color shift will probably not be noticed when you don't have snow, and most people seem to like the warm white better. It also doesn't bother me if I make sure to aim the beam well up the trail, so it doesn't appear as a spot on the ground.


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## psychbeat (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks for the review!
Im saving to get one of these after Xmas along with a 
h60w for the best of both worlds and common batts etc.


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## wacomme (Dec 18, 2009)

xcandrew,

Yes. Thank you for the review. I think I'll buy one after Christmas too. 

I'm also curious about modding an EOS. What kind of mods do you perform, and are they easy to do?


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## xcandrew (Dec 18, 2009)

wacomme said:


> xcandrew,
> I'm also curious about modding an EOS. What kind of mods do you perform, and are they easy to do?


 
The mod I did was for the original Eos. Like I said above, I haven't seen the Rebel Eos's beam, so I don't know if I would think it needs a fix or not. I swapped out the star for an U-bin Seoul Semiconductor P4, put in a McGizmo McR-18S reflector, added a penny heatsink (not sure that it's of any value), and found a way to hook it up to an external battery pack.

The huge Eos mod thread from two years ago is below. Most of the stuff I contributed starts on page 6. It looks like some of the imageshack-hosted photos that I posted no longer work, so it doesn't show the final configuration of my battery pack (mainly, better strain relief).

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/162784


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## wacomme (Dec 19, 2009)

xcandrew,

How portable and convenient is the Magicshine? I realize it' bright and will light up a room, but considering its size and added bulk, say in comparison to the Eos, how useful is the Magicshine? Is it a light you'll use on a regular basis, or a specialty light in special situations?


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## LeifUK (Dec 19, 2009)

Personally I much prefer a hand torch, rather than a head mounted one. I don't like the beam just above my eyes, and since I wear spectacles, it tends to cause glare. 

For what it's worth, avoid the Petzl Tikka XP: too dim in my view. You need at least 50 lumens, and more like 100, if your eyes are anything like mine. 

Do be aware that people differ in how well their pupils dilate. 4mm is low, 7mm is high, and that makes a brightness ratio of 16 to 49 i.e. about 1:3.  So someone might tell you one light is good/bad, but their assessment might not match yours. 

I recently bought a Fenix L2D Q5 hand torch, and on high mode it throws out ~100 lumens, with a reasonably wide spread and a bright central spot, and it is excellent for running along rough paths cross country.


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## xcandrew (Dec 20, 2009)

wacomme said:


> xcandrew,
> 
> How portable and convenient is the Magicshine? I realize it' bright and will light up a room, but considering its size and added bulk, say in comparison to the Eos, how useful is the Magicshine? Is it a light you'll use on a regular basis, or a specialty light in special situations?


 
What kind of bulk are you worried about? The overall package or what's on your head? It fits into a jacket pocket fine, but it's not something you would put in the front pocket of your jeans. Like I said before, what's on your head is 157 g (5.5 oz), which is not that much more than the Eos (about 115 g with batteries in the unit). I don't find the separate battery inconvenient. In fact, I modified my Eos so it can use an external pack (for longer run time, and to keep my Eneloops warm in the cold), though I don't use the external pack any longer now that the Magicshine is my primary running/skiing light.







I use it for running and skiing (and would also use it for hiking, walking the dog...), but I don't consider those special situations, since it adds up to about 2 hours a day in the winter. I obviously don't use the Magicshine for little tasks like walking to the bathroom in middle of the night.

Like Jagge says, a lot of orienteers are liking the light, and that's the most rigorous running related use for a headlamp. The P7 emitter in the Magicshine is about 667 lumens at 2,400 mA (high setting) based on tests by JTR1962. 667 lumens vs. 50 lumens for the Rebel Eos? I know which one I want for running .


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## xcandrew (Dec 20, 2009)

LeifUK said:


> Personally I much prefer a hand torch, rather than a head mounted one. I don't like the beam just above my eyes, and since I wear spectacles, it tends to cause glare.


 
I usually wear contact lenses, but I sometimes use glasses in the evening. I haven't noticed any glare with my Eos. Are you talking about the glare from the beam striking the back of the lens? I saw talk about that in discussions about the Zebralights, and saw how ZL was adding blinders to block that stray light. Maybe the front of the Eos is projected out further forward of the face of the wearer than your Tikka XP? As you can see from the photo above, the front of the Magicshine is even further in front of the wearer's face.

The Magicshine also sits substantially higher on the head (11 cm vs. 7 cm above my eye level) compared to a headlamp like the Eos. I know trail runners often complain that they lose their 3D perception of the ground surface because they lose shadows when using headlamps, but I haven't noticed that with the Magicshine. I saw plenty of 3D snow covered ground on my ski today. Orienteers use really bright headlamps for running in the woods in the darks without that complaint - maybe in part because they sit higher on the head, and in part because they use lights that are a lot brighter than the little lights used by most runners.

I can't see myself using a hand held for running. That would be incredibly annoying, since I like to swing my arms like a normal runner.


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## wacomme (Dec 20, 2009)

OK. You've convinced me. I want a Magicshine. Is the headband working out well too?


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## wacomme (Dec 20, 2009)

Oh. One more question. Does the Magicshine get overly hot?


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## rigormootis (Dec 20, 2009)

Zebralight H50-Q5.
Floody and light -- esp. with a Lithium AA.


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## xcandrew (Dec 20, 2009)

wacomme said:


> Oh. One more question. Does the Magicshine get overly hot?


 
The head strap is working fine for me. I noticed after I got back today that I haven't even been using the over-the-top strap because I had adjusted that part too loose. The large size of the plate makes it more stable than even my lighter Eos.

For those who want a really secure head strap designed for orienteering, there is the Lupine Headband Pro, but at $63 US, it costs almost as the entire Magicshine lampset: http://gretnabikes.com/item.asp?PID=179

The standard Lupine headstrap also looks beefier than the one that goes with the Magicshine, but again, I think the Magicshine one works fine: http://gretnabikes.com/lupine_headband_accesories.asp

As for running overly hot, I can't say. It seems to warm up to about room temperature for me, but I've been using it in 0 to 20 degree F temperatures. I don't think I'll have a problem with it running hot, since I only run/ski in the dark in the winter. In some of the many long threads on this lamp (all over: mtbr.com in the forums and reviews, the transportation-bike subforum here on CPF, bikeforums.net, attackpoint.com, etc.), it was discussed how when it first came out this summer, the light had a lot of quality issues including not using heatsink compound on the emitter, having metal shavings inside that could cause shorts, and other quality deficiencies. Geomangear provided feedback to the manufacturer, and the lamp has been incrementally improved since summer, though the quality is obviously not as good a the $400-500 Lupine Tesla that it is a copy of. I think the Deal Extreme version has the improvements, but I bought mine from Geomangear because he checks them out individually before sending them out. He also ships way faster than DX, and he would provide quicker service if warranty service is needed.


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## xcandrew (Dec 20, 2009)

rigormootis said:


> Zebralight H50-Q5.
> Floody and light -- esp. with a Lithium AA.


 
This is a great link for beamshot comparisons:

http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/

On the lower left text box, select "Road". Scroll down in the upper text box and click on "Zebralight H50". Looks to me like a good enough beam for seeing where your feet are when you are walking, but not really where you are going, certainly not at running speeds.

In the same upper box, click on "Magicshine HA-III". Make sure that the selection in the lower-middle box is on "high" (the light setting) and the selection in the lower right box is still "8 C" (This is camera exposure. Make sure they are the same between comparisons). That's a running light. It's also interesting to click on other commonly available headlamps like the Princeton Tec Apex (switch from 4 LED High to High).

If you scroll down in the lower left box and select "Body" it will show you the body of the lights in the comparisons, and it confirms that the "Magicshine HA-III" (the Deal Extreme version) is the lamp that we've been talking about.

The other selections in the lower left box show other light comparisons that might be interesting too.


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## Jagge (Dec 20, 2009)

xcandrew said:


> The Magicshine also sits substantially higher on the head (11 cm vs. 7 cm above my eye level) compared to a headlamp like the Eos. I know trail runners often complain that they lose their 3D perception of the ground surface because they lose shadows when using headlamps, but I haven't noticed that with the Magicshine. I saw plenty of 3D snow covered ground on my ski today. Orienteers use really bright headlamps for running in the woods in the darks without that complaint - maybe in part because they sit higher on the head, and in part because they use lights that are a lot brighter than the little lights used by most runners.



I agree, I wrote about the issue some time ago, lots of typos as usual:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2720822&postcount=11

I find it hard to belive magickshine gets overly hot. P7 driven at 2400 ma + driver losses. Heat sink is more than large enough for that if there is at least some airflow. I drive my headlamps harder with less heatsink and they never get overly hot. But it will get hot of course if you burn it on kitchen table, use it for at max for fixing your car at garage or sit in sauna with. I have been told the lamp doesn't limit curret if it gets hot like some more expensive lights do.

I dont say Magickshine is the Best Current Running Headlamp, but better ones are several times more expensive and not that much better.


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## zemmo (Dec 20, 2009)

Jagge said:


> I agree, I wrote about the issue some time ago, lots of typos as usual:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/2720822&postcount=11
> 
> I find it hard to belive magickshine gets overly hot. P7 driven at 2400 ma + driver losses. Heat sink is more than large enough for that if there is at least some airflow. I drive my headlamps harder with less heatsink and they never get overly hot. But it will get hot of course if you burn it on kitchen table, use it for at max for fixing your car at garage or sit in sauna with. I have been told the lamp doesn't limit curret if it gets hot like some more expensive lights do.
> ...



Does anyone know anything about the batteries included in the Magicshine? Are they LiFePO4? Do they seem to give reasonable runtime, and does the charger seem do a decent job with the battery pack? Anyone check charging voltage? This seems almost too good to be true, for the money. TIA.


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## TooManyGizmos (Dec 20, 2009)

Possibly of interest to you guys :

*"Brief reviews of torches for running*" ..... By "LeifUK"

.


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## zemmo (Dec 20, 2009)

OK, fine, I ordered one, will see how it lights the desert varmints up on nightwalks


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## wacomme (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm getting antsy and might bite the bullet on a MAGICSHINE from Geomangear too, though I'd like to hear a response about zemmo's battery questions.


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## wacomme (Dec 20, 2009)

Holy Cow! This is a fantastic comparison.


xcandrew said:


> This is a great link for beamshot comparisons:
> 
> http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/
> 
> ...


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## wacomme (Dec 20, 2009)

Also, is the Magicshine regulated or unregulated (I think this is the term). Does the light maintain its brightness throughout the charge of the battery, or does it dim as the battery weakens?


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## zemmo (Dec 20, 2009)

wacomme said:


> Also, is the Magicshine regulated or unregulated (I think this is the term). Does the light maintain its brightness throughout the charge of the battery, or does it dim as the battery weakens?



It's said to be regulated, but I don't know if it's a buck or buck/boost circuit. I would actually prefer the former. The specs I can find online are a little vague, but it looks like it likely is a buck only circuit. Anyone know different?

I kept looking and found this comment on the mtbr.com forum, so it seems to be buck/boost:

"I picked up one of these lights and have used it for four night rides so far. I like the brightness but I am disappointed in the run times that I am getting. I noticed that the indicator light was
coming on short of the two hour mark. The first couple of rides this was near the end of the ride but last night it came on at about the same time and the light completely shut down at 2:15. It didn't seem to dim or go to low power prior to shut down. Luckily I do run a light on my helmet as well so all was good for the ride but I was wondering if anyone else seems to be getting shorter run times than advertised.
I have contacted the dealer I bought it from and am waiting for a response."

Most of the other people on the forum were getting longer run times than the poster. I'm still poking around in the forum, and one guy opened up the pack, and reported that the cells were 2200 mah. No report on the chemistry. I read in another review somewhere that the cells were LiFePO4, but haven't been able to confirm. And I expect the manufacturer would use pretty much the cheapest 18650's he could find...


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## wacomme (Dec 20, 2009)

What is the difference between a buck and buck/boost system?


zemmo said:


> It's said to be regulated, but I don't know if it's a buck or buck/boost circuit. I would actually prefer the former. The specs I can find online are a little vague, but it looks like it likely is a buck only circuit. Anyone know different?
> 
> I kept looking and found this comment on the mtbr.com forum, so it seems to be buck/boost:


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## zemmo (Dec 20, 2009)

wacomme said:


> What is the difference between a buck and buck/boost system?



I an no expert on this. It is my understanding that a buck circuit reduces the voltage to a set level, and when battery voltage falls below that level the light goes into direct drive. A buck/boost does the same until the battery voltage reaches the specified parameter, but then the boost converter kicks in and keeps the wattage and emitter output steady--by increasing the voltage... until the battery is functionally depleted. At which point the light goes out. If any of the many circuitry gurus on the forum would like to chip in, please do. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_converter


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## Jagge (Dec 20, 2009)

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/232163


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## wacomme (Dec 20, 2009)

Thanks for the interesting thread.



Jagge said:


> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/232163


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## psychbeat (Dec 21, 2009)

thanks andrew!!
is the top strap removable?( i guess I cold just cut it off)
I may preffer it on my helmet (full face) on bike rides over bar mount..
def a post xmas buy for me!! gonna go w geoman then.
also, wonder if an sst-50 HL is comming out soon...
or SST-90:devil:


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## xcandrew (Dec 21, 2009)

zemmo said:


> Does anyone know anything about the batteries included in the Magicshine? Are they LiFePO4? Do they seem to give reasonable runtime, and does the charger seem do a decent job with the battery pack? Anyone check charging voltage? This seems almost too good to be true, for the money. TIA.


 
The battery pack comes off the charger at 8.4 volts, so that's standard Li-ion chemistry. The charger works fine, though there are at least two versions (mine is the 1800 mA one). I haven't measured the runtime, but have noticed the LED behind the switch is red after more than 2 hrs of use on high. It runs long enough for me on high, so I'm not going to do a rundown test.

I have seen posts where people have ruined the battery pack by getting it wet, so keep it dry or waterproof it. That won't be an issue the way I'm using it.


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## xcandrew (Dec 21, 2009)

psychbeat said:


> thanks andrew!!
> is the top strap removable?( i guess I cold just cut it off)
> I may preffer it on my helmet (full face) on bike rides over bar mount..
> def a post xmas buy for me!! gonna go w geoman then.
> ...


 
On the $12.99 Geomangear accessory version that I have, you'd have to cut it off. You can get the helmet mount version (the plate with velcro straps/no head straps) for $10. DX sells 3 versions of the light including one that comes with a head strap without top strap part.


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## xcandrew (Dec 21, 2009)

zemmo said:


> I an no expert on this. It is my understanding that a buck circuit reduces the voltage to a set level, and when battery voltage falls below that level the light goes into direct drive. A buck/boost does the same until the battery voltage reaches the specified parameter, but then the boost converter kicks in and keeps the wattage and emitter output steady--by increasing the voltage... until the battery is functionally depleted. At which point the light goes out. If any of the many circuitry gurus on the forum would like to chip in, please do.


 
I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think it has a boost because the nominal voltage of the pack is 7.4 V and the P7 Vf is probably in the vicinity of 3.5 V. It's not a good practice to fully deplete rechargeable battery packs because you might reverse voltage and ruin a cell (or worse). I would try to avoid depleting the pack.


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## xcandrew (Dec 21, 2009)

Now that I have the Magicshine, what do I want it to do better? That's easy. Look at the Lupine Tesla vs. Magicshine beamshots in the top two photos:

http://acidinmylegs.blogspot.com/2009/11/few-beam-shots.html

The Tesla has the nicest beam for a P7, and that is the main thing that it does better than the Magicshine in practical use. The beam made it my favorite over the even more expensive Lupines like the Betty and Wilma (less spill than what's on the Tesla), though they were all was too expensive for me to really consider.

The dark donut around the spot on the Magicshine that I wrote about in my first post in this thread is noticeable in the beamshot comparison above (and also in the http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/ beamshot that I referenced above). This donut is common in P7 lights because of the large size of the die. The Tesla uses a special hexagonal pattern reflector that is supposedly CNC-machined (! look it up if you don't believe it).

In post #7 in https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/191264 , Mac says: "The P7 will not properly focus in a Smooth or Orange Peel reflector. You need a Medium Stipple to completely eliminate the donut hole. Up close the beam on a white will look fine as soon as you reach past 10 feet or so the donut hole is visable even with a Sputtered reflector."

Hey, that's just what I noticed on the white wall vs. on the trail with the Magicshine.

Here's Mac's stippling job on a mag reflector: http://public.fotki.com/cmacclel/lights-1/seoul-p7/

Look at ktronik's posts #58, #60, and #74 for the results of his stippling job:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=520912

OK, expert modders, am I going to ruin my reflector if I try this? I know to use Krylon or Rustoleum crystal clear acrylic spray paint. Any spraying technique tips (youtube)? Maybe I should check to see if I can get some extra reflectors before I try. Maybe it would be better to ask in the modding forum?

I have also found a thread where someone has swapped out the reflector for 15 and 25 degree optics. The person with happy with the beam, but others, including me liked the stock beam better, donut and all. The optics got rid of the donut, but killed the spill and reach at the same time.


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2009)

xcandrew said:


> I'm not an expert on this, but I don't think it has a boost because the nominal voltage of the pack is 7.4 V and the P7 Vf is probably in the vicinity of 3.5 V. It's not a good practice to fully deplete rechargeable battery packs because you might reverse voltage and ruin a cell (or worse). I would try to avoid depleting the pack.



Never a good idea to run Li-ion (or pretty much any other battery chem) all the way down. I believe this battery pack is protected, but triggering the protection regularly is also a really bad idea. If it maintains the same output until it shuts off, it must have a boost converter, right? Still trying to get a handle on the technical aspects of regulation.


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## psychbeat (Dec 21, 2009)

xcandrew;
are you going to use krylon or engine enamel for the stippling?
seems pretty easy- please post pics!

helmet mount wont werk on a fullface helmet btw
as theres no slots for the straps. Ill just cut the top strap off
the headband and use it like a regular single strap HL.
sorry to the OP this turned into a magicshine thread:naughty:


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## wacomme (Dec 21, 2009)

No problem. I'm finding the discussion interesting. Besides, I'll be buying a Magicshine soon.


psychbeat said:


> sorry to the OP this turned into a magicshine thread:naughty:


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## xcandrew (Dec 21, 2009)

psychbeat said:


> xcandrew;
> are you going to use krylon or engine enamel for the stippling?
> seems pretty easy- please post pics!
> 
> _sorry to the OP this turned into a magicshine thread:naughty:_


 
Yeah, it does, but I've never done it, and I only have the reflector that is in the lamp. The only thing I've ever used spray paint for is marking dig or boring locations for utility locators, so I'm not that confident. Any other newbie to stippling want to go first? I'll put it off at least until I go on vacation to CA next week so I don't have to do it indoors (too cold outside, probably poor conditions for painting). Maybe I'll practice on aluminum foil first.

The Magicshine probably deserves it's own thread, but oh well.


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## Jagge (Dec 22, 2009)

xcandrew said:


> The Magicshine probably deserves it's own thread, but oh well.



Well, there is/was a thread for Magicshine headlamp:
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3160704


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## rigormootis (Dec 22, 2009)

Hmm -- well, I run with my Zebralight. I used to run without a light, so I guess it always seemed like more than enough light for me.


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## wacomme (Dec 22, 2009)

I currently run with a 40 lumen headlamp. I can't imagine what a 600 lumen light will be like. My 40 lumen headlamp is fine for city roads at night, but inadequate for technical trail running. It will be nice to have near-daylight conditions on the trail.


rigormootis said:


> Hmm -- well, I run with my Zebralight. I used to run without a light, so I guess it always seemed like more than enough light for me.


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## xcandrew (Dec 22, 2009)

Jagge said:


> Well, there is/was a thread for Magicshine headlamp:
> https://www.candlepowerforums.com/posts/3160704


 
Can't tell what he posted, but looking at his post history, I doubt he was really advertising. I bet he was being a man of few words and just posted a link without any discussion.

This lamp is obviously well discussed in the bike community (it's all they seem to discuss now in the mtbr.com light forum), but most non-biking moving (running/dog sledding/skiing/etc.) headlamp users aren't aware of what they are missing. I first heard about it last summer, but the feedback on the quality at the time seemed to indicate that it wasn't quite trustworthy, so I forgot about it. I picked up on it again after seeing the discussion on attackpoint.com (orienteering forum for those who don't know).


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## xcandrew (Dec 22, 2009)

OK, back on topic. I was browsing through the http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/ beamshots and was amazed at how bright many of the lights were. Last night I figured I'd look through the "Body" (lower left box) photos to see what these lights looked like

The Vaska lights grabbed my eye as the only headlamps with head gear that looked like they were designed for orienteering/skiing. The light heads were tiny (a lot smaller than the Magicshine) with an interesting mushroom finned design. I went back to the beamshots and they look impressive. The 1 MCE isn't as bright as the Magicshine, but it has a smoother beam with the right spill and throw. The 4 MCE burning probably 30W... :twothumbs. It's a tiny package too with the smaller size battery set on the top of the head in the configuration shown in the "body" photo. I looked up Vaska, and found the maker (dissing the Magicshine) on the mtbr.com forums. Apparently he's having his hands full selling only in Russia right now, but may sell elsewhere later. Maybe these are the best current running headlamps? I want to get my hands on one.


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## xcandrew (Dec 22, 2009)

rigormootis said:


> Hmm -- well, I run with my Zebralight. I used to run without a light, so I guess it always seemed like more than enough light for me.


 
I also used to run without a light. I still run/ski with the headlamp off at times. Sometimes, depending on the ambient light conditions, running with an all flood lamp can be worse than no light because you can only see within your bubble of light. At least that's my recall of my experience with the Princeton Tec Aurora way back. It had a small bubble though, compared to the Zebraslights.


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## zemmo (Dec 22, 2009)

xcandrew said:


> I also used to run without a light. I still run/ski with the headlamp off at times. Sometimes, depending on the ambient light conditions, running with an all flood lamp can be worse than no light because you can only see within your bubble of light. At least that's my recall of my experience with the Princeton Tec Aurora way back. It had a small bubble though, compared to the Zebraslights.



Don't much need a light w/AK full moon on snow:thumbsup:


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## xcandrew (Dec 22, 2009)

zemmo said:


> Don't much need a light w/AK full moon on snow:thumbsup:


 
Or with clouds glowing from the city lights of Anchorage :sigh: (well it's still nice).

I was actually thinking the trails in the San Jose (CA) park near my parent's home that I ran a lot in until moving to AK 11 years ago. Ambient light at night varied tremendously depending on sky conditions. On many nights there would be a strong atmospheric glow, and running with the Aurora was (or PT Solo) was worse than nothing. The nights with full moon and clear skies were interesting. Going under the tunnels of trees (without a light), I often could not see the ground at all. It was like running in the darkness of outer space, and you couldn't see or sense if the ground was going to drop out from under you. I did most of my night runs without a light, and I'd have to psych myself up a bit to do it, but it was a good rush (and not just from the darkness - I have run into two adult mountain lions in the park over the years). My usual night loops were 12 to 13 miles - 2.5 miles to a trailhead on the road or sidewalk, 7-8 miles of the park trails, and out a trailhead at the other end of the park, and 2.2 miles back. I'll be visiting there in a few days.


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## zemmo (Dec 23, 2009)

xcandrew said:


> Or with clouds glowing from the city lights of Anchorage :sigh: (well it's still nice).
> 
> I was actually thinking the trails in the San Jose (CA) park near my parent's home that I ran a lot in until moving to AK 11 years ago. Ambient light at night varied tremendously depending on sky conditions. On many nights there would be a strong atmospheric glow, and running with the Aurora was (or PT Solo) was worse than nothing. The nights with full moon and clear skies were interesting. Going under the tunnels of trees (without a light), I often could not see the ground at all. It was like running in the darkness of outer space, and you couldn't see or sense if the ground was going to drop out from under you. I did most of my night runs without a light, and I'd have to psych myself up a bit to do it, but it was a good rush (and not just from the darkness - I have run into two adult mountain lions in the park over the years). My usual night loops were 12 to 13 miles - 2.5 miles to a trailhead on the road or sidewalk, 7-8 miles of the park trails, and out a trailhead at the other end of the park, and 2.2 miles back. I'll be visiting there in a few days.



When I used to winter at Denali Park I was ski-joring like a maniac, and not working. Sometimes during the full moon cycle I'd become nocturnal and run at night. My dogs always really liked going out at night, it was extraordinarily beautiful, and a bit of a novelty. I used to do runs of up to around 55 miles with one dog. I'd have an incan headlamp with 4 D cells in a battery pack ready to switch on, but rarely needed to. Not much of a cloud bounce up there


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## ifor powell (Dec 23, 2009)

xcandrew said:


> OK, back on topic. I was browsing through the http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/ beamshots and was amazed at how bright many of the lights were. Last night I figured I'd look through the "Body" (lower left box) photos to see what these lights looked like
> 
> The Vaska lights grabbed my eye as the only headlamps with head gear that looked like they were designed for orienteering/skiing. The light heads were tiny (a lot smaller than the Magicshine) with an interesting mushroom finned design. I went back to the beamshots and they look impressive. The 1 MCE isn't as bright as the Magicshine, but it has a smoother beam with the right spill and throw. The 4 MCE burning probably 30W... :twothumbs. It's a tiny package too with the smaller size battery set on the top of the head in the configuration shown in the "body" photo. I looked up Vaska, and found the maker (dissing the Magicshine) on the mtbr.com forums. Apparently he's having his hands full selling only in Russia right now, but may sell elsewhere later. Maybe these are the best current running headlamps? I want to get my hands on one.


 
The Vaska is very impresive looking too bad it's only avalible in Russia. The headband looks realy nice, that's always the bit I have shied away from doing DIY. Looks like it has a 3 piece setup, battery, driver and lighthead which is what I did with my homemade MCE headlight. It just looks a hole lot smarter than mine though. The 3 piece setup means you can have a small lighthead as you don't need to intergrate the driver and different sizes of battery. The disadvantage is that to do thermal managment you need a seperate sensore which means more wiring etc. It looks to have a minimum of a 2 18650 battery which will give a weight of probobly about 200g which with the good headband will be perfectly aceptable for running. I have not been able to fine out much on the 4 MCE one but the beamshopts looked very impresive.


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## wacomme (Dec 23, 2009)

Do you know if there are any plans for selling this light outside Russia?


ifor powell said:


> The Vaska is very impresive looking too bad it's only avalible in Russia.


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## psychbeat (Dec 23, 2009)

this is the site yeah?

http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/L30/order


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## psychbeat (Dec 23, 2009)

ooops that was the other russian one.
they look nice too- but yeah that vaska looks DOPE!


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## ifor powell (Dec 23, 2009)

I could not find a website for the Vaska just read through the makers comments on mtbr.com. I think he has enough demand localy to keep him busy so unless he wants to expand production I think we are out of luck.

Ifor


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## wacomme (Dec 23, 2009)

Vaska says on mtbr.com that the Magicshine light's EFI interferes with HRM and GPS transmissions. Since I use GPS and a HRM, this would be a concern for me. Has anyone notices this problem with the Magicshine light"?


ifor powell said:


> I could not find a website for the Vaska just read through the makers comments on mtbr.com. I think he has enough demand localy to keep him busy so unless he wants to expand production I think we are out of luck.
> 
> Ifor


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## wacomme (Dec 23, 2009)

I emailed Vaska about his light and this was his prompt email reply:



> Hello!
> 
> The light was designed mostly for XC-skiing, and it’s quite a harvest-time for me now J Since September manufacturing takes all my time, and till March I’m planning only wholesale trading. You may buy from one of my internet retailers like this one: http://www.skiwax.ru/catalog/index.php?SECTION_ID=0&ELEMENT_ID=6873 , their e-mail is: [email protected]
> Their retail price is about 300 $ and shipping from Russia will cost some 10 – 15 $ by national post-service. If you still wish to purchase it just keep in mind that there is still no manual in English, and I have no time to write one in the nearest future.
> ...



This looks like a wonderful light. However, it's a $300 light, though ethically, it properly supports the R&D a developer and manufacturer deserves. Nevertheless, I can't buy this light on my budget, so it's the Magicshine for me.


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## psychbeat (Dec 23, 2009)

yeah- Ill dream about one but am in the same boat.
Ill def keep it in mind if I have a good spring $ wise........
$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## wacomme (Dec 24, 2009)

Here's another interesting email I received from Vaska. Perhaps next year all of the talk will be about the Vaska light, like the Magicshine is all of the talk this year.



> Maybe you’d better not hurry and buy MS now. There are several reasons for that:
> 1. Though I use to criticize MS battery solution, my lamp is still complemented with the same kind of unbalanced battery pack, though I’m planning to solve the problem till summer.
> 2. Unlike the lamp and connectors VASKA’s battery pack is still not waterproof.
> 3. The share of research in the price is still too high and manufacturing process is not optimized yet to be cheap enough.
> ...


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## wacomme (Dec 24, 2009)

Has anyone heard of or used the Amoeba light?


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## zemmo (Dec 24, 2009)

wacomme said:


> I emailed Vaska about his light and this was his prompt email reply:
> 
> 
> 
> This looks like a wonderful light. However, it's a $300 light, though ethically, it properly supports the R&D a developer and manufacturer deserves. Nevertheless, I can't buy this light on my budget, so it's the Magicshine for me.



Certainly a unique look, and the beamshots look great as well. I might buy one when it's gotten a little farther down the full-production line, if it does. The English owner's manual is no big deal. 

Meanwhile, hoping my Magicshine arrives today


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## wacomme (Dec 24, 2009)

zemmo,

Let us know how you like the Magicshine light. I need to live vicariously for a week. I noticed that my son ordered a birthday package for me from Geoman. I wonder what it is? However, I need to wait until New Years Day, my birthday, before I can open the present. Oh well. As a teacher I'm now doing my workouts during daylight hours. This will change when I return to school, but by that time I'll have a Magicshine light too!

I like the Vaska light, but the price and the developmental stage prevents me from buying one right now. 

I briefly saw the Amoeba light at VeloSwap in Denver last October. It looks interesting, but I don't know much about it. Has anyone seen comparison beamshots?


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## LeifUK (Dec 25, 2009)

xcandrew said:


> I usually wear contact lenses, but I sometimes use glasses in the evening. I haven't noticed any glare with my Eos. Are you talking about the glare from the beam striking the back of the lens? I saw talk about that in discussions about the Zebralights, and saw how ZL was adding blinders to block that stray light. Maybe the front of the Eos is projected out further forward of the face of the wearer than your Tikka XP? As you can see from the photo above, the front of the Magicshine is even further in front of the wearer's face.
> 
> The Magicshine also sits substantially higher on the head (11 cm vs. 7 cm above my eye level) compared to a headlamp like the Eos. I know trail runners often complain that they lose their 3D perception of the ground surface because they lose shadows when using headlamps, but I haven't noticed that with the Magicshine. I saw plenty of 3D snow covered ground on my ski today. Orienteers use really bright headlamps for running in the woods in the darks without that complaint - maybe in part because they sit higher on the head, and in part because they use lights that are a lot brighter than the little lights used by most runners.
> 
> I can't see myself using a hand held for running. That would be incredibly annoying, since I like to swing my arms like a normal runner.



Yes, there is some glare from the back of the spectacle lenses and I do not like having a bright beam above my head. 

I swing my hands, but the hand torch has such a bright wide beam that it does not matter. It helps to have a bright central spot for range, and plenty of spill for the path straight ahead. A head torch tends to bounce up and down which I find annoying but clearly tastes differ. I use to use my headlamp as a backup and preferred to handhold it. (More 3 D effect, but that is less important for bright lights.) It is worth noting that many head lamps have a weak light, due sometimes to the choice of AAA cells. 

I do ~8 mile runs cross country (not roads) through forest and heath, but always along trails, and I need a bright light so that I do not trip over roots and other objects. It is quite strange with a bright light as it is no longer like running at night since I am surrounded by a region of 'daylight'. But whan I add a diffuser I lose the reach, and then it is like being in a small sphere of light which is creepy. 

What about a 2*AA hand torch in a head band?

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?b...quBy6wQ7TdwhHrNlQTtbH3ay3abVjzcuoLF5z8Q-PNbzz

I presume everyone carries a backup light, if only to find the main one if you drop it, or for use while changing batteries on the main one.


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## wacomme (Dec 26, 2009)

Perhaps I should carry a backup light, but I don't carry one. If figure that if my light fails, my run is over and I'll slowly find my way back home in the dark.


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## zemmo (Dec 27, 2009)

I got my MS and have been playing with it. I've seen nothing like it for the money. It makes my old BD Soliras look exceptionally dated. I mostly like the beam, it's got a lot of spill and pretty good throw as well. I think it would be great for running a dog team. I tried it out against my Quark Turbo for pure throw, and the MS just wins. Neither is really a thrower, but the MS is good for over 100 yards, which is adequate for my purposes. 

Overall, I'm very pleased with the light, everything functions perfectly so far. It makes walking around at night closer to walking around in the day than any other headlamp I've used.


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## zemmo (Dec 27, 2009)

wacomme said:


> Perhaps I should carry a backup light, but I don't carry one. If figure that if my light fails, my run is over and I'll slowly find my way back home in the dark.



On a moonless night, I wouldn't have a chance of finding my way back from some of the places I walk or run at night. Probably fall over a cliff band!:sick2:


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## wacomme (Dec 28, 2009)

Many years ago when I was an avid rock climber, my climbing partner and I were caught after dark on a long descent. It was a moonless night, and we literally has to crawl on our hands and knees at times to find a route down, belaying each other into complete darkness so we didn't fall off a cliff. Morning was breaking when we made it back to the car. 

I should have learned my lesson then. Maybe I should carry a backup. though now my excuse is that I no long do such technical and epic climbs.


zemmo said:


> On a moonless night, I wouldn't have a chance of finding my way back from some of the places I walk or run at night. Probably fall over a cliff band!:sick2:


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